Salami... White mold and sticky cases??

[haeffnkr]

OK, so you are using just the humidity from the meats then to keep RH% high. I am not that lucky.

Yes. In my experience with the box loaded up there is always enough humidity to keep it high as you want it.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Correct :)
Got that set right now to stay between 86 and 87... will bump down as it gets dryer.

Just curious, how are you able to maintain 80% RH with no humidifier inside the chamber with RH of 36% as ambient outside?????? This can not be possible throughout the drying process. Please explain.

 

[indaswamp]

Just curious, how are you able to maintain 80% RH with no humidifier inside the chamber with RH of 36% as ambient outside?????? This can not be possible throughout the drying process. Please explain.

The moisture released from the sausages keeps the humidity up in such a small space....as long as you have enough product in there to produce the needed moisture.

 

[SmokinEdge]

The moisture released from the sausages keeps the humidity up in such a small space....as long as you have enough product in there to produce the needed moisture.

indaswamp
That’s fine, and I understand. However, I live in a RH of 12-20%. I have tried this method. It works for the first week to 10 days. As the sausages dry, their moisture goes down. Thus releasing less humidity and therefore starting the dreaded dry ring on the sausage. It simply cannot be done this way in my experience. Umaidry is the only option besides a full fledged curing cabinet.

 

[indaswamp]

indaswamp
That’s fine, and I understand. However, I live in a RH of 12-20%. I have tried this method. It works for the first week to 10 days. As the sausages dry, their moisture goes down. Thus releasing less humidity and therefore starting the dreaded dry ring on the sausage. It simply cannot be done this way in my experience. Umaidry is the only option besides a full fledged curing cabinet.

And I have to opposite problem....too much humidity. When warm humid air enters my chamber I get a humidity spike to +95%. Which is why advice for dry curing must be tailored to the environment where the person lives. There is no set one way to do it and what works in one area of the country may not work elsewhere. I too have to have a full fledge curing cabinet, or restrict salami making to thin products that will dry fast.

 

[SmokinEdge]

And I have to opposite problem....too much humidity. When warm humid air enters my chamber I get a humidity spike to +95%. Which is why advice for dry curing must be tailored to the environment where the person lives. There is no set one way to do it and what works in one area of the country may not work elsewhere. I too have to have a full fledge curing cabinet, or restrict salami making to thin products that will dry fast.

Agreed.
With the knowledge you have gained, what would you do in a ambient RH of 36%? Let them ride? Or feed them humidity as needed?

 

[indaswamp]

As long as RH% inside the chamber can be maintained 0.2-0.5 below Aw, then I would let them ride. If it drops below that then I would add a humidifier of some sort.

As an example, if the salami has lost 9% weight loss, then that is roughly 3% Aw or 0.03Aw. Assuming starting Aw is 0.96, then Aw @ 9% weight loss would be around 0.93Aw. So RH% should be 91%-87% for optimum drying....according to Marianski and other sources.

 

[haeffnkr]

Just curious, how are you able to maintain 80% RH with no humidifier inside the chamber with RH of 36% as ambient outside?????? This can not be possible throughout the drying process. Please explain.

See the pics and let me know if you have more questions.

thanks haeffnkr

Inside basement temp and humidity and outside conditions - is it cold snowing/raining now .

Inside chamber is it 50 degrees now with the cold air pulled from the concrete wall. - show in the above pic.

 

[haeffnkr]

And I have to opposite problem....too much humidity. When warm humid air enters my chamber I get a humidity spike to +95%. Which is why advice for dry curing must be tailored to the environment where the person lives. There is no set one way to do it and what works in one area of the country may not work elsewhere. I too have to have a full fledge curing cabinet, or restrict salami making to thin products that will dry fast.

I live in Missouri , US just west of St Louis MO. - years ago before the weather got a bit hotter than it does now, we would make summer sausage , smoke it outside and leave it until it was ready about 6 weeks. Some years it dried a bit too fast some years it was perfect. It never got thrown out. :) We hung it in late Jan and left it until mid March usually . Now we have an old converted walk in cooler that has works the same way as my smaller box. We hang 500 to 1000 pounds in it - AC and Heat controlled to keep between 47 and 50 a few fans to circulate and dehumidifier set at 80 then 75 as it dries. Works well. We even smoke it now in the cooler with a pellets.

I have a few friends who cure sausage in plywood boxes set in their garages with no auto controls and the sausage is perfect. I have done it myself a few times with success as well. A friend puts 100 pounds of 23 mm sausages in a 4x4x4 box with good success. Garage temps are perfect in Jan thru Mid March in Missouri - 30 to 60. Rainy days sometimes and sunny days sometimes. Just put in a Humidity gauge in the box and close or crack it during the day... night temp bring up the humidity and leave it open and watch the weather. Sunny warm dry day in Feb.. close it or crack it to keep humidity from going to low too fast.. Cooler rainy days.. open it up. It all averages out.

 

[haeffnkr]

Cleaned the salami up and got them hung in by drying box. THANKS for all the help today.
I have been wanting to try salami for a couple years, hope it works out. I have made tons of cured summer sausage though, yes tons.

SmokinEdge you can better see the intake fan bottom right and the exhaust fan - top left to move the dryer air through the box as needed. There are little louver vents on both fans. Just some vinyl dryer vents.

Smells like heaven when you open the door :)

 

[SmokinEdge]

As long as RH% inside the chamber can be maintained 0.2-0.5 below Aw, then I would let them ride. If it drops below that then I would add a humidifier of some sort.

As an example, if the salami has lost 9% weight loss, then that is roughly 3% Aw or 0.03Aw. Assuming starting Aw is 0.96, then Aw @ 9% weight loss would be around 0.93Aw. So RH% should be 91%-87% for optimum drying....according to Marianski and other sources.

In a hostile dry environment such as 36% humidity or lower, this theory will not work. You cannot imagine the case hardening. The AW inside the meat is not workable with serious case hardening. Once the case hardening happens, it’s impossible to drop the Aw. The meat will simply rot.

 

[haeffnkr]

In a hostile dry environment such as 36% humidity or lower, this theory will not work. You cannot imagine the case hardening. The AW inside the meat is not workable with serious case hardening. Once the case hardening happens, it’s impossible to drop the Aw. The meat will simply rot.

SmokinEdge You are saying my sausage will rot before it is ready?

 

[indaswamp]

In a hostile dry environment such as 36% humidity or lower, this theory will not work. You cannot imagine the case hardening. The AW inside the meat is not workable with serious case hardening. Once the case hardening happens, it’s impossible to drop the Aw. The meat will simply rot.

I realize that would happen in a 36% humidity environment, but the RH% in his chamber is 87%.

haeffnkr ,
You may have to add more salami when the snack sticks are done just to maintain high humidity in your chamber.

 

[indaswamp]

SmokinEdge You are saying my sausage will rot before it is ready?

Yes, if severe case hardening occurs on a large enough diameter salami, it will stop losing moisture and rot from the inside out. That is why temp. and humidity are so important.

 

[haeffnkr]

Yes, if severe case hardening occurs on a large enough diameter salami, it will stop losing moisture and rot from the inside out. That is why temp. and humidity are so important.

that

I realize that would happen in a 36% humidity environment, but the RH% in his chamber is 87%.

haeffnkr ,
You may have to add more salami when the snack sticks are done just to maintain high humidity in your chamber.

Sure ... will keep an eye on it and add a mini humidifier if that happens.

 

[uncle eddie]

just a post to get me in the watch list....

 

[haeffnkr]

Yes, if severe case hardening occurs on a large enough diameter salami, it will stop losing moisture and rot from the inside out. That is why temp. and humidity are so important.

My sausage is not going to case harden to the point it will rot because the humidity is not 36%. in my curing environment.
I agree that case hardening would happen if sausage was dried in a 36 % environment.

thanks for everything

 

[SmokinEdge]

My sausage is not going to case harden to the point it will rot because the humidity is not 36%. in my curing environment.
I agree that case hardening would happen if sausage was dried in a 36 % environment.

thanks for everything

The box is full of fresh chubs right now. The RH outside the chamber is 37%. That air is circulating into the chamber to drop RH inside the cabinet. That’s perfect. However, you WILL run out of high humidity from the chubs most likely when you move to the cure chamber. You will most definitely have to have a humidifier in that chamber to finish the chubs with 75-80% humidity. That is my only point.

 

[haeffnkr]

The box is full of fresh chubs right now. The RH outside the chamber is 37%. That air is circulating into the chamber to drop RH inside the cabinet. That’s perfect. However, you WILL run out of high humidity from the chubs most likely when you move to the cure chamber. You will most definitely have to have a humidifier in that chamber to finish the chubs with 75-80% humidity. That is my only point.

SmokinEdge
I am very impressed with your ability to tell me how my process is flawed. The fact that you are doing it from several hundred miles away and have not met me, tasted my work, seen my setup and lived in my conditions makes it all the more miraculous.
I have supplied pictures, described my setup and wrote about past successful experiences but I now understand I will ultimately fail this time, as you have said, my theory will not work and my efforts will result in rotted meat.
While I am saddened by your factual statement, I feel the wiser and have hopes of growing into a great sausage maker some day. I greatly appreciate all the valuable knowledge you have shared. The internet is a wonderful place to learn new things, especially in these trying times. You sir, are truly an invaluable asset to this incredible forum.

thanks again haeffnkr

 

[SmokinEdge]

SmokinEdge
I am very impressed with your ability to tell me how my process is flawed. The fact that you are doing it from several hundred miles away and have not met me, tasted my work, seen my setup and lived in my conditions makes it all the more miraculous.
I have supplied pictures, described my setup and wrote about past successful experiences but I now understand I will ultimately fail this time, as you have said, my theory will not work and my efforts will result in rotted meat.
While I am saddened by your factual statement, I feel the wiser and have hopes of growing into a great sausage maker some day. I greatly appreciate all the valuable knowledge you have shared. The internet is a wonderful place to learn new things, especially in these trying times. You sir, are truly an invaluable asset to this incredible forum.

thanks again haeffnkr

Have a good day sir. You asked.