Reducing the amount of tanginess in Fast Ferment sausage

[rfwoodvt]

Just exploring possibilities here.

Would like to make a milder Summer Sausage with less lactic acid twang. Shelf stability will not be a consideration as the final product will be frozen after being made and kept in a refrigerator when being consumed.

While I'm happy for simple and direct answers, I'm really more interested in the whys and why-nots...in other words, the science behind your thoughts and answers. So, with that in mind...

To reduce the tanginess I'm thinking I would follow Marianski's recipe for summer sausage (we use pork and venison) to the letter except that I'd lower the amount of dextrose by a percentage (let's say 50% for discussion) thus reducing the amount of lactic acid produced. I'd be using these temps: 89*f-+ for fermenting (<24hrs) and 68*f+- for drying. (<48 hrs) and we'd be using F-LC.

Our meat batter typically comes in at an initial pH of 5.5 - 5.7 and we consistently end up with 4.2 to 4.4 after fermentation using Marianski's recipe. I'm expecting that in order to reduce the tanginess we'd probably be looking at a final pH of around 5.0.

This leads to a couple questions, essentially around food safety during the processing.

As long as I'm using a good F-LC culture and Cure #1 does the final pH really matter for food safety during processing? Nearest I can understand is that the Cure #1 will provide plenty of Botulinum protection as well as some protection from Salmonella. But will the F-LC be enough to provide the additional listeria protection given the proposed final pH, or does that really matter?

In a "what-if" scenario: Would there be any benefit/need to perhaps use use Cure #2 instead and ferment for a few extra days at lower temps before warm smoking and bringing to log7 temps?

Thanks for your thoughtful input.

 

[indaswamp]

The acid in dry cure meats is necessary to prevent the bad bacteria from growing. Rick can verify this, but I believe the target pH is about 4.8...

IMO, if you want a lower acid summer sausage, you should use encapsulated citric acid (ECA) and forgo the fermenting to an unsafe pH level in the danger zone.

 

[rfwoodvt]

... you should use encapsulated citric acid (ECA) and forgo the fermenting to an unsafe pH level in the danger zone.

How would that be any different aside from getting the target pH a bit sooner? Wouldn't that still give what you consider a sub-optimum pH?

Also, dry sausages (which the one I am making is not even going to be semi-dry) rely more on the lower Aw than the acidity, indeed the acidity doesn't even form to capacity for days, if not weeks, if I understand the process correctly.

 

[JC in GB]

It seems to me that one of the necessary side effects to quick fermenting is that you lower the meat pH quickly so you don't also have to rely on AW. You may not be able to get around this in a safe manner. I agree with indaswamp that you may get the taste you are looking for using citric acid and not fermenting at all. If I were having this issue, I would approach it this way first.

There is no substitute for safe handling practices.

JC

 

[rfwoodvt]

It seems to me that one of the necessary side effects to quick fermenting is that you lower the meat pH quickly so you don't also have to rely on AW.

JC

Attaining the proper Aw for shelf stability is a slow process in any sausage. Longer than the times I've suggested. Also, Aw appears to be more of a shelf-stability factor, not a fermentation period factor.

Indeed in slow fermented products there is no appreciable acidification and it is not wanted as it will negatively affect the flavor bacterium that are desired. So the evidence there is that what is good for shelf stability might not apply during fermentation and drying.

And that is key to remember. the question posed is not about shelf stability after processing; It's whether the acidification is necessary for interim safety from grinding through smoking and heat treating.

If the acidification is necessary, then would not the encapsulated citric acid be delayed for a similar time as fermentation due to the encapsulation having to break down first? Or is it because the sausage can go straight to smoking and drying and therefore avoid the interim period of warm fermentation?

Please understand, I'm not arguing, just trying to understand the logic and science behind what is being suggested.

 

[indaswamp]

rfwoodvt,
This might be helpful:
https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage

There is a difference in fermented sausage technology between the United States and the European countries. American methods rely on rapid acid production (lowering pH) through a fast fermentation in order to stabilize the sausage against spoilage bacteria. Fast acting starter cultures such as Lactobacillus plantarum and Pediococus acidilactici are used at high temperatures up to 40º C (104º F). As a result pH drops to 4.6, the sausage is stable but the flavor suffers and the product is sour and tangy. In European countries, the temperatures of 22º -26º C (72º -78º F) are used and the drying, instead of the acidity (pH) is the main hurdle against spoilage bacteria which favors better flavor development. The final acidity of a traditionally made salami is low (high pH) and the sourly taste is gone.

 

[Sowsage]

I believe that F-LC can be used for slow,fast and extra fast ferment. Depending on temp its fermented at. The lower temps will take longer to reach a target ph but produce less tang or sour taste. When I use it in summer sausage the recipe calls for 85° for 24hr and it's pefect amount of tang for my liking. When I use it in Simi dry pepperoni its fermented at 100° for the same amount of time..24hr. And deffinatly has a different amount of sour taste. I would play around with different temp and times to get the flavor your looking for. If your not worried about beeing shelf stable then i wouldnt think your final ph is going to mater. The flavor profile is all dependent on the temp and time. You could do three batches all the same. Each one fermented at a diffent temp and time and all three reach the same ph. All three would have a different flavor profile even though they all have reached the same target ph. I would have to find a chart about this but I'm pretty sure you can achieve fermentation with F-LC as low as 77° I have not researched the why and hows on this but I'm sure its available somewhere . hopefully this will help you out a little bit

 

[JC in GB]

R rfwoodvt no worries my friend. I am not trying to argue here either. I am learning right along with you. I haven't tried a fermented sausage yet but have been doing plenty of reading on how to do just that. I was simply making a statement based upon my understanding so far. You are correct that I lost sight that you were not looking for a shelf stable product.

In any event, I will be following this thread as this is a great discussion topic.

JC

 

[zwiller]

I actually think pH is more about shelf stability and flavor not processing but admit it is really not clear. Good question! I am no fermented sausage pro but very familiar with fermentation as a long time homebrewer and also familiar with sour/lacto beers.

To me, I think if you ferment (read that as "keep meat in danger zone a long time") you need to go down to 4.7 to kill the bugs and eat up all residual sugars the bugs could later eat if there are some still left. Acid is the opposite. Lowers pH (as much or as little as you want) and you stay in the safe zone the whole time. I have read that some guys much prefer fermento/buttermilk powder over ECA tastewise. Supposedly extremely similar to a culture.

 

[rfwoodvt]

rfwoodvt,
This might be helpful:
https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage

Thanks, it explains quite a bit.

Seems the first hurdle is the cure #1. that holds things stable during the ferment, whether fast or medium. The second hurdle will be the temps under which the fermentation occurs if I read that correctly. Higher for fast, lower for medium.

The flavor profile is all dependent on the temp and time. You could do three batches all the same. Each one fermented at a diffent temp and time and all three reach the same ph. All three would have a different flavor profile even though they all have reached the same target ph. I would have to find a chart about this but I'm pretty sure you can achieve fermentation with F-LC as low as 77° I have not researched the why and hows on this but I'm sure its available somewhere . hopefully this will help you out a little bit

Going back to what Sowsage said I have experienced the different profiles that way, having gone from running my curing chamber the back porch (hard to stabilize chamber temp) and taking 36 hours with the temp bouncing between 85*f and 100*f, to running it in my basement and getting
it stable at 89*f with constant humidity. As i control of temps got better so did the flavor profile stabilize between batches.

While the profile changed, the twang did not in any appreciable way (It did using a different culture though) However, would there be a different twang for a given culture and temp/time combination assuming they all reach the same pH level?

I'm guessing no as It's my understanding that the twang is a function of the pH level.

Now, a question about the cure. Cure #1 is for use in short duration processing where Cure #2 is for long duration. Where is the delineation between long and short processes? Is it measured in days, weeks or months, and how many?