MES30 - 15 hours for meat at 220-225F???

[rdel90]

So I'm smoking my first brisket using my MES30. Started with a small 4 LBer I'm now at 14 hours and just got to 190F so I imagine another hour to get to 195F IT to pull. It's about a 2.5" thick flat. Reading through older posts, this seems like a realllllly long time. I had a 3lb butt take 10 hours a few weeks ago starting at 225F and had to nudge it up to 275F to finish in that time. I'm just concerned how long it's taking for these smaller pieces of meat, and in this case, that I may have dried out my brisket. 

I smoke with vent full open. Am I loosing too much heat? MES30 seems to maintain heat output but I did notice on my last smoke, the built in probe measures about 10F off (hotter) than an analog and even the Maverick ET-733 probe. Also at set point, the air temp seems like it can fluctuate +5F/-15F from setpoint with heater cycling.

Timeline for this current brisket smoke:

8:00pm preheat 225F built in probe. Mav reads 218F (dropped as low as 210F) air temp

8:45pm 4lb brisket in

1:45am 5 hours open smoker and insert Mav probe into middle of flat. Reading 160F. Refill wood chips in SSK (slow smoke kit). Bumped MES30 set point to 230F. Mav reading 216-222F.

8:00am Mav probe reads 178F. Refill wood chips. Bumped set point on MES30 to 235F. Mav reading air 223-230F

10:45am Just hit 190F

I get that thickness is better time estimate than weight, but has anyone else experienced these really long time to reach IT in smaller/thicker meats with the MES30? 

 

[SmokinAl]

There is nothing wrong with bumping the temp up to 275, which in your smoker would really be around 265. At the temps your smoking at, a piece of brisket that thick is going to take a long time. I'd say your just about right as far as the timeline goes. Next time start the brisket at 275 & just leave it there the whole smoke & see how it goes for you. I smoke my brisket at 270-280 & they are just as tender & juicy as if I smoked them at 225.

Al

 

[rdel90]

Thanks Al! Finally hit 195F and I just towel wrapped the brisket. I'll post the results in a few hours.

 

[Bearcarver]

RD,

Your smoking temp might be a little lower than you think.

You should have your ET-733 smoker probe about 2" or 3" from the meat to know what temp it is actually sitting in.

Sounds like you got-er done though!!!

Here's a 3.75 pound Brisket Flat I did one time, and it took about 10 hours at 230° to get to 200° IT:

Brisket Flat     

Bear

 

[rdel90]

Bear I had 2 ET-733 probes going with the air temp probe a few inches away from the meat and towards the back wall. It was right next to the built in probe so I can get a good comparison. Was on 2nd shelf. So my average air temp was right in the 220-225F range from what I got from the ET-733. I didn't foil wrap since I wanted a little more bark. But next time I think I will try Al's recommendation with a little higher temp first before going to foil.

Another interesting observation, I had the scored fat cap side down (in case it stuck to rack) but really had minimal drippings in the catch pan I put below. I had apple juice in the water pan but that I'm guessing didn't last too long. Will probably spray as well next time.

I was so looking forward to this brisket and let myself down. But you live and you learn. Still getting the hang of it. Just glad I only did half the brisket....Posting process and pics in the Beef thread.

 

[Bearcarver]

 
Bear I had 2 ET-733 probes going with the air temp probe a few inches away from the meat and towards the back wall. It was right next to the built in probe so I can get a good comparison. Was on 2nd shelf. So my average air temp was right in the 220-225F range from what I got from the ET-733. I didn't foil wrap since I wanted a little more bark. But next time I think I will try Al's recommendation with a little higher temp first before going to foil.

Another interesting observation, I had the scored fat cap side down (in case it stuck to rack) but really had minimal drippings in the catch pan I put below. I had apple juice in the water pan but that I'm guessing didn't last too long. Will probably spray as well next time.

I was so looking forward to this brisket and let myself down. But you live and you learn. Still getting the hang of it. Just glad I only did half the brisket....Posting process and pics in the Beef thread.

The built in probe?? If you mean the one that looks like a Probe, that is the Meat Probe, & that's often the least accurate.

The sensor for the Smoker Temp is the little thing on the back wall, just below center & a little to the right---Looks like a "Toggle Switch".

There's another reason for taking longer.

Most MES owners don't put liquids in their water pan. It does nothing good---Only Bad. IMHO

You can use any temp you want, but I like to use 230° in the beginning, so I can get more time putting smoke on.

Then I foil it around 165°. That's a good time to jack the heat up if you're in a hurry, because you already put the smoke on it.

I always put the Fat cap on top so it can baste the meat a bit. If I had the meat real close to heat, like smokers with flame, I'd put the fat down to protect it.

Your Brisket wasn't ruined, was it??  It was still edible & probably Tasty?!?!, Right???

Bear

 

[rdel90]

Sorry. I was mixing up the smoker temp sensor. I will try without liquid in the pan next time as well.

The brisket came out with awesome flavor, just on the dry side.

 

[Bearcarver]

Sorry. I was mixing up the smoker temp sensor. I will try without liquid in the pan next time as well.

The brisket came out with awesome flavor, just on the dry side.

Flats are hard to keep from getting a little Dry. A full packer has the point too, and is easier to keep moist.

That's why I foil mine at about 165°, and add some "Foiling Juice" to the package before I close it up.

Then I save the juice that's left at the end, de-fat it & add it to the leftover slices as I reheat them.

I usually only do flats, because it's only the two of us, but I wish I could find a place that sells just "Points".

Don't know if this helps---Just some Ideas for you to think about.

Bear

 

[jokensmoken]

Dry ish flats are one of the main reasons guys like wrapping in foil at or around the stall (about 165° IT).
Some say but the bark gets a little soft...here's something I tried this summer...like a reverse sear...I unwrapped the brisket when it was done...cranked the temp on my smoker to about 275° and threw it back.on the grate for about 20 minutes and firmed the bark right back up...worked wonderfully.

Walt.

 

[uncle eddie]

 
There's another reason for taking longer.

Most MES owners don't put liquids in their water pan. It does nothing good---Only Bad. IMHO

Bear

Bear is correct IMHO

My MES40 water pan has been wrapped in foil for about a year now - to remove the drippings more easily.  

After I stopped putting water in my water pan, my smoked meats -

• flavor was better,
• bark was better,
• smoke ring was more pronounced, and
• life was better :-)

The MES30 and 40 are essentially an oven and the big mass of water is not needed to help hold the temperature.

Ed

 

[rdel90]

Thanks Bear and Uncle Eddie. I will definitely proceed with no liquid in the pan from now on. 

 

[rdel90]

I just smoked a double header, 4 lb flat brisket and 5lb butt with no juice in the water pan and things went much smoother! No foiling. With the thermal mass loaded, a set point of 260F got me an internal air temp of 220F +/- 10F (as measured by the MES and ET Probes during the first 4 hours). Total cook time was 9 hours to get to IT for both meats. Meat came out with a nice bark and was tender and juicy. Kudos Bear and Eddie!

 

[uncle eddie]

Woo!  Awesome.

I was nervous the first time I tried no water in my MES40...but after the first smoke, I never went back to using the water pan for anything other than catching the drippings.

Now - if you want to get more adventurous - some MES 30/40 owners fill their water pan with sand and wrap the sand/pan with foil to create a big hot mass so they can get back to temp faster if they open the door.  There were some other reasons but I can't remember them ...

Cheers

Ed

 

[rdel90]

I definitely was nervous! The sand sounds like a great idea! Although the only time I opened the door was to stick the Maverick probes in the meat. Posting some pics in the Pork forum shortly. 

 

[GaryHibbert]

Yep. I have the water dish filled with sand and foiled. It works great as a heat sink. BUT. When winter arrives that sand filled pan takes a LONG time to get up to temp. My solution to that problem is to store the sand filled pan inside for the winter. Then you get to start out with nice warm sand. Cuts preheat time down a lot.

Gary

 

[rdel90]

Yep. I have the water dish filled with sand and foiled. It works great as a heat sink. BUT. When winter arrives that sand filled pan takes a LONG time to get up to temp. My solution to that problem is to store the sand filled pan inside for the winter. Then you get to start out with nice warm sand. Cuts preheat time down a lot.

Gary

Luckily I live in FL so don't have to worry too much about the sand cooling down!

 

[dr k]

Yep. I have the water dish filled with sand and foiled. It works great as a heat sink. BUT. When winter arrives that sand filled pan takes a LONG time to get up to temp. My solution to that problem is to store the sand filled pan inside for the winter. Then you get to start out with nice warm sand. Cuts preheat time down a lot.

Gary

Yeah I'd bring it inside when not smoking during the winter. I do have clean play sand from growing ghost peppers I may give it a shot this winter. I guess fill it 1/2 - 3/4 with sand before foiling so there's a little room for drips.
-Kurt

 

[redoctobyr]

Gary, that's a great idea. To that end, the sand/whatever could be pre-heated to your intended smoker temp in the oven, or toaster oven, ahead of time.

I wonder if something like just normal bricks could work? Maybe wrapped in foil to keep them from getting drippings all over them.

The extra thermal mass sounds helpful, but the fact that it will take a while to get up to temp is a bit of a downside. But I have a convection toaster oven, as an example. It brings things up to temperature quite quickly, it could be a nice option for this.

 

[rdel90]

I have just been putting an extra foil pan on the bottom above the water pan to catch drippings. That way could make a roux or aj jus if I wanted to as well. They are only 2/$1 at the dollar store. Could probably even use the glass beads/rocks they sell there too.

 

[Bearcarver]

I thought about using a brick or two as a heat sinc, but it would take forever to heat them in a PA Winter, and Mrs Bear knows how to use every weapon in my Gun Cabinet, so there's no way I would bring a Smoky Brick inside her house to warm up between smokes.

I just cover my Water pan with Foil, and put up with the couple minutes it takes to recover on those rare occasions that I open my MES door.

Bear