Flavor of Italy starter culture

[smokininthegarden]

Can anyone tell me how much of this to use for 10 # of meat there are no instructions on the package.

cal

 

[pc farmer]

indaswamp He can help. He just used it.

 

[indaswamp]

Thanks for the ping pc farmer......
The recommended dosage:
Take 50g (the weight of the package) and divide by 200kg. (the amount of meat the package will ferment). That gives you 0.25g per kilogram. But if you are making less than 5kg. it is recommended to weigh out 1g for the first kilogram and 0.25grams for each following kg of meat. This is to ensure you have enough live culture present when you weigh it out...

 

[indaswamp]

Be sure to use distilled or boiled then cooled water...deionized water will destroy the culture...the microbs need the ions in the water for proper osmotic cell pressure.....I just learned this recently...

 

[pc farmer]

Be sure to use distilled or boiled then cooled water...deionized water will destroy the culture...the microbs need the ions in the water for proper osmotic cell pressure.....I just learned this recently...

So well water is good or no?

 

[smokininthegarden]

Thanks Swamp good info much appreciated.
Cal

 

[indaswamp]

So well water is good or no?

Good question Adam...
I'd boil then cool it covered just to be safe.

 

[pc farmer]

Good question Adam...
I'd boil then cool it covered just to be safe.

I have used well water with cultures without issue.

 

[indaswamp]

Thanks Swamp good info much appreciated.
Cal

No problem... You gearing up to make salami? Whatcha gonna make? I weighed out my spice mix for pepperoni,and Genoa. I'll get those fermenting in my trash can fermentor, then make the Calabrese soppressatta. I have 2 very large 1" thick HDPE cutting boards I can use to press the salamis with (2) 5 gallon buckets of water on top as weights, but this will take up my counter space so I want to get the others fermenting first and out of the way....

 

[indaswamp]

I have used well water with cultures without issue.

I'm not saying it's bad practice....I don't know.
Everything I have read, they say to use distilled or boiled water for purity reasons. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment.

 

[smokininthegarden]

No problem... You gearing up to make salami? Whatcha gonna make? I weighed out my spice mix for pepperoni,and Genoa. I'll get those fermenting in my trash can fermentor, then make the Calabrese soppressatta. I have 2 very large 1" thick HDPE cutting boards I can use to press the salamis with (2) 5 gallon buckets of water on top as weights, but this will take up my counter space so I want to get the others fermenting first and out of the way....

Yea I’m planning on making the Calabrian salami as well as some unfermented chorizo I’ll post back later.

cal

 

[zwiller]

I'm not saying it's bad practice....I don't know.
Everything I have read, they say to use distilled or boiled water for purity reasons. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment.

 

[Sowsage]

I'm not saying it's bad practice....I don't know.
Everything I have read, they say to use distilled or boiled water for purity reasons. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment.

I could be wrong but I think this is mainly for municipal water sources. Chlorinated water will kill the bacteria. Ive also used our well water with no issues. But if i lived in the city I would definitely use distilled water. Good info on the use of deionized water. That's new info for me.

 

[zwiller]

BEAT ME TO IT! Can only speak from homebrewing experience but the two are related, in general most potable water is OK to use but not all water is equal so that's why the disclaimer. Chlorine is definitely not cool and can kill cultures if high enough. That can be remedied as suggested via boiling or also offgassing/evaporation (24hr sit). From here pH, high mineral content, and others could have an affect but like I said all depends. Not sure if you can obtain a water test of the well (you should for many reasons) but if in line with EPA standards it is probably fine. I would defintely be rocking a filter setup on that well water and probably a RO for the tap BTW. Distilled water is $1lb gallon here and last practically forever. Since beer is mostly water it makes a profound difference when used in beer but sausage is the opposite so not gonna make impact BUT the risk is killing or reducing the effectiveness of the culture and is just not worth the risk IMO. I am consummate cheap SOB but still fork out for distilled water.

 

[indaswamp]

Can only speak from homebrewing experience but the two are related, in general most potable water is OK to use but not all water is equal so that's why the disclaimer.

How long does it take to ferment beer? And what is the final pH when finished?

 

[zwiller]

Typical beer is fermented with yeast. There are 2 types of brewing yeasts, lager and ale yeast. Ale yeast is fermented at near room temps (warm) and done in a few days. Lager yeast is fermented cooler (cold) and while it can be finished in days, is often deliberately slowed done to produce cleaner results by lowering the fermenting temps. Both yeasts end up with a pH of 4.5 or so.

Enter sour beers and these are most similar to sausage since they use cultures of bacteria like Flavor of Italy or "bugs" as we call them. Traditional sour beer (lambic) takes a long time/years maybe since they do not warm the ferment up or "cheat". They end up near a pH of 3. Often they are sweetened or cut since 3 is near vinegar and very tart. Modern sour beers are made a variety of ways but a very popular method is similar to sausage and have a warm ferment step where the main source of acid (lactobacillus) is produced fast and takes a few days at warm temps. While lacto can reduce pH close to 3 it is best to stop it (boil) around 4 for beer and of course each brewer has their own preference (a little lower or higher). In general, lacto cannot full ferment the beer (wort) and needs help to finish. Yeast or different bugs are added after this initial warm phase and it is here where flavor is made as for the most part lacto does not add any significant flavor just acid. I suspect this next part is similar to sausage and takes time to develop, a few weeks to a few months. Slowly the newly added yeast and/or other bugs eat the remaining sugar, etc and produce those flavors you expect. Brewers call this "funk" and can be described as barnyard, fruit, etc. pH does not drop much here, maybe a little. It is generally accepted that the cooler (slower) the process the beer is made the better, as it better mimics the traditional sour method and it is my understanding the same applies to sausage.

Hope this helps.

 

[indaswamp]

Thank you for the lengthy post on beer zwiller...
Yes, it sounds similar to fermenting sausage. The Lacto and Pediococcus strains produce most of the acid, while the staphylococcus strains produce the flavor, but this takes time. These strains can handle a lower Aw (water activity) than most but are pH sensitive which is why it is best to stop fermentation around pH5.0-5.1. These strains also convert the nitrates to nitrites for color development.
Fast drying is not desireable for full flavor development...the bacteria need water to do their job. Some Large dia. salamis are Larded (coated in lard) to slow down drying after 3-4 months to allow deep, intense flavor development....