Short Notice "Help Me"

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kc dave, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. I"m going to the smoker tomorrow (Sunday, July 19) so there's some time to pitch in.

    I'm going to do something for my first time.

    I was watching BBQ Pittmasters on TV and watched the finished boxes.
    It occurred to me to try and slice the meat before it's smoked.

    I'll be doing Pork Loin.
    2 inches thick.

    I'll put the Rub on tonight (10pm) and fire up around Noon tomorrow.
    I'll be cooking in a Nordic Ware Cake Pan (similar to this one if the link works)

    That's to replace the handling of foil.

    Onto the question.

    I"m concerned about drying out the meat using the 2-2-1.
    Normally I would do this kind of thing in the oven with 3 hours covered (stewing) and then uncovered 30 minutes to an hour.
    It's the first 2 hours that have me going.

    Do I need to separate the pork slices with toothpicks (or however I can)
    Foil separate?
    Just fan them over like crowded dominoes?

    The goal is to get it a full smoke ring on each slice.
    But Pork can dry from succulent to "that's gonna need a lot of sauce" in such short time.
    Really not sure what to do with this project of smoking sliced Pork.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  2. dirtsailor2003

    dirtsailor2003 Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    You'd basically be cooking pork chops. To get to the proper IT of 145,you'd be done in less than an hour. Why not leave the loin whole? You'll Still be done in about 2 hours.
  3. The challenge it not to get quick chops but to smoke the slices.

    I think I can target a cool smoke at 120 to 130 degrees, but I have no idea how long to run that for.
  4. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    This is the upper end of the Danger Zone! You can go no longer than 1 hour at this low temp then crank it up to 225 and smoke until an IT of 140, slight pink or 145, no pink after resting. Since you sliced them into boneless chops, the most smoke application can be achieved by placing them straight on the rack with the pan next shelf down to catch drippings. The short cook to a low IT of 140-145 will keep them juicy without the need to foil. The final texture will be tender and steak like but not the " Falling Apart " texture you would get with the long 4 combination cooking method you described above. While 2-2-1 is fine for Country and Babyback Ribs, this method will render a pretty dry Chop, not enough fat or connective tissue, requiring lots of sauce.

    Just a word of Caution for our readers...Smoking at temps under 225°F should NEVER be attemped with Injected, Punctured or Ground meat and no form of Poultry,,,JJ
  5. I appreciate the "Danger Zone" warning.
    I had the gut feeling I was pushing a limit of some kind.

    Dirtsailor is nowhere near being wrong. I realize the risk of running them dry.
    That challenge was the first time I even thought of cool smoking through the first stage.
    Thanks for the help.

    Should there be a "save point" here where I mop the chops or use spray oil to seal them off?

    Normally, it's smoking against the length of the grain of the meat, but this will be perpendicular.
    The meat is going to drain pretty quick once the fats loosen up.
    There's no seal to hold the fat on an open grill deck.

    Challenge my thinking here.
    The reason for the pan was to be able to introduce water or apple/water mix to keep the moisture up and the catch the drain as the meat loosened up..
    I could baste the fluid through until I reach temp.

    I don't want to make it sound like I have a plan yet.
    I've having a tough time visualizing the finish.
    (which is why I'm still up at 3am thinking about it)
  6. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    Dave, I don't disagree with Case, I back his advice and just wanted to add more detail and the caution. The Pork will have no issue maintaining its own moisture to an IT of 140, 150°F max, beyond that you are Bone Dry or adding your choice of liquid and cooking until it starts to break up becoming fork tender. It will be edible using this Moist Cooking, essentially Steaming/Braising method, but will require you heavily sauce the finished meat. My wife likes Pork Chops simmered in Tomato Sauce until the meat starts to fall apart. They are tasty although, texturally dry which is made up by the sauce. Even here there are better cut choices, thick sliced Butt, Country Style Ribs, to do a Braise. There is no way to " Seal " in meat juices. This is a myth that the old time Chef's thought Searing Meat sealed in juices but has long ago been proven a fallacy. The moistness of cooked meat is determined by Fat content, Connective Tissue/Collagen content and Degree of Doneness, final IT. In commercial Pork the Fat is kept as low as possible, the Collagen is highest in the most active muscles, Legs, Shoulders Ribs and Belly. All these are best cooked Low and Slow, Foiling and/or added moisture if desired. The last 2 main cuts, the long Loin, that is frequently cut into Chops, and the tiny Tenderloin, are inactive muscles that develop very little Connective Tissue and contain the smallest amount of Fat (The Other White Meat). The best way to cook Loins/Chops or Tenderloins is to take advantage of and control Degree of Doneness, hence the recommendation of smoking them to an IT of 140-145²F, no liquid required, they are not going to be in the smoker long enough for basting, spritzing or moist smoke to have an impact...Unless...As I described, the desired end result is Fork Tender yet dry textured meat that needs a lot of sauce to make up the loss of natural moisture, lack of fat and collagen. I hope this additional info helps...JJ

    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
    cats49er likes this.
  7. It certainly does help.

    Like you, I have a wife too and that's where this started.
    She basically stews her ribs and briskets in the oven and calls it "Barbecue" because she put sauce on it.
    She's so cute.

    Yet, if she can cook cut ribs, then I should be able to smoke 'em and cook 'em out proper.

    I think you're dead on right about the open grill plate smoke. At the beginning at least.

    So temp is the larger issue.

    Dance with me on this.
    In an Offset Smoker
    What if I put an ice pan at the firebox opening, low fire, and do this more like a cheese smoke at the beginning?

    Can I go 2 to 3 hours on that and then into a Wet Pan to bring it up to temperature?

    I really do appreciate your challenges on this.
    I'm kinda sorta starting to get a picture of it.

    If all fails, fear not.
    I have three dogs.
    They'll love whatever I do.
  8. tropics

    tropics Smoking Guru SMF Premier Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

  9. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    The Ice Pan may keep the Chops in the Danger Zone, <140°F, too long and can create bacterial growth, don't want anybody sick here. It really is a better and SAFE plan to give up a little smoke flavor and smoke them at 225°F...[​IMG]...JJ
  10. dirtsailor2003

    dirtsailor2003 Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    During the winter months I cold smoke pork chops. Keep in mind that my smoker is at or below the temp of a refrigerator. I do this with ahi tuna also. That's the only time I cold smoke chops that haven't been cured.

    That would be another option if you want to smoke longer. Cure your parents to chops in Pop's Brine or a dry rub cure. Then you could lower the temps without worrying about it.
  11. The loin is about the same diameter but thick sliced.

    You show a 2 1/2 hour smoke.
    Is that ever foil wrapped or just 2 1/2 open on the grate?

    I'm not certain my thick chops can handle it without turning into jerky. I'll probably hit 140 pretty quick

    If I tell you guys what I think I might do, it will change 10 minutes from now.
    I feel like I'm learning something.
    Definitely having fun.
    But it's all new ground for me, all the while I'm still getting comfortable with the Offset Smoker.

    My head does spin a bit in the process.
  12. tropics

    tropics Smoking Guru SMF Premier Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    Mine was whole Dave so thick sliced,they will cook quick.The ones you have won't get much smoke,but they will be safe to eat.Good luck post results please.

  13. So it was kind of a success.
    The plan was to get more smoke into a cut without destroying the meat and I think I got that
    although it's not the most tender, it's not tough nor dry either.

    Hopefully this link will work.
    Haven't bothered to learn how to post images yet.

    Not a great image but you can see that the piece cut butterfly shows not much penetration of smoke.
    But the one on the right does. There is just a sliver of white meat in the center.
    I wanted a full smoke through, but that was pretty darn close.

    It's odd that the one cut looks like it was taken from whole smoked loin and not individually done.
    It's the only piece that turned out that way.

    The quick steps were,
    Rub on, in fridge, for about 14 hours.
    Warm smoked between 90 and 100 degrees for 4.5 hours (waiting for mahogany color)

    I botched the finish cooking process, but ended up in the covered Nordic Ware pan and brought the meat temp up to 140 (thanks again, Jimmy)

    It does have a pronounced Hickory Smoke flavor. More than I usually get.
    It's almost too strong but not quite.

    Oddly enough, the cuts did not cook quickly.
    I still took a couple more hours to get them done.
    It's like the temp stalled on me and I had to boost up the heat to get them done.

    I think you guys were a big help on this one.

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