darrin weimert
Newbie
- Oct 3, 2012
- 5
- 10
I would think that you would be okay if cooked right away if you inject it room temp mixture, also should you let your brisket get to room temp before you cook it like i do other beef cuts??
Darrin, evening.... Any whole, intact meat muscle that has been injected, should be injected at 40 deg or lower.... and it needs to go on the heat ASAP so it can get to an internal temp of 140 within 4 hours.... If you have the smoker fired up to temp, I suppose you can inject a hot marinade, brine... that would help get the IT up faster.... the 4 hour 40-140 still applies.... Heat the brine, marinade up to 185 first to kill all the bad stuff...... Unless you can insure the injection process and injection liquid was sterile.... so no bacteria was injected with it..... Non whole muscle whether injected or not needs this "heat to 140 within 4 hours" for food safety... "meat loaf, boned and tied roast, meat glued turkey breast, meat glued fancy steak wrapped in bacon" all are examples of non intact muscles.....I would think that you would be okay if cooked right away if you inject it room temp mixture, also should you let your brisket get to room temp before you cook it like i do other beef cuts??
i was watching an old re-run of pitmasters and one of the guys and one girl on there was saying they pull their brisket out and let it get to room temp, as to help with moisture and tenderness because a cold brisket is a leather brisket...im thinking...WTF!!??? moisture and tenderness..??...???? no f##@in' way!!! lol. ive also seen a few youtube vids where ppl try to explain how to make a real texas brisket...wrong...haha. which also involves letting sit til it reaches room temp, because you dont want the muscle to be that tight or itll be leather. again...wrong! lol.I will never understand the "let it sit out for 2-3 hours to come up to room temp so it cooks faster", I think it will cook a lot faster on a 225* smoker than a 70* counter!
I don't understand this logic? Its all being cooked regardless, why does it have to be 4 hours to 140*?
Hello. I see no reason to inject a good brisket but just remember that if you inject that brisket the 40-140-4 rule comes into effect. The brisket must go from 40 degrees to an IT of 140 within 4 hours for food safety. Good luck. Keep Smokin!
Danny
Tac.... evening.... A whole muscle is considered "sterile" on the inside..... Therefor, a long slow cook is permissible because there are no pathogens to grow which can kill you.....I don't understand this logic? Its all being cooked regardless, why does it have to be 4 hours to 140*?
Yes, but isn't that why with non-whole muscle meats, like ground beef for example, the FDA recommends bringing the internal temperature of the meat up to 165F to kill any bacteria that might be present in the meat? If 165F kills any bacteria present in a piece of meat, I would think that a brisket (which in most cases isn't even considered done until around 200F) would be hot enough for a long enough amount of time to kill any potential bacteria that injecting would introduce. This would also make letting the meat come up to room temperature on it's own before smoking a non-issue. Am I missing something here?
Tac.... evening.... A whole muscle is considered "sterile" on the inside..... Therefor, a long slow cook is permissible because there are no pathogens to grow which can kill you.....
When you inject, you inject bacteria and pathogens..... they grow during the temp zone of 40-140 and especially fast in a moist environment....
4 hours to get to 140 is a "rule" (not really) a "guideline" based on bacterial growth in the lab at different times, temps etc for different bacteria and pathogens......
Aren't you glad you stopped in here... Great place to learn stuff... Food Safety included.... We want you to be a great cook and live to tell about it......
Dave
It's not just the bacteria themselves, remember that some bacteria produce poisonous waste products (like botulin) that can survive the heat. So while cooking may eventually kill the bacteria, if the cook takes too long the bacteria may make enough waste to sicken the consumer.
If 165F kills any bacteria present in a piece of meat, I would think that a brisket (which in most cases isn't even considered done until around 200F) would be hot enough for a long enough amount of time to kill any potential bacteria that injecting would introduce. This would also make letting the meat come up to room temperature on it's own before smoking a non-issue. Am I missing something here?
Injecting can introduce surface Bacteria deep into the meat. With really thick roasts like a Pork Butt the interior can stay at the optimal temp for bacteria to multiply, 70 to 100°F, for many hours. The result can be rapid growth. Now this sounds like it is not that big a deal because we will smoke the meat to an IT of 200+ and kill all the bacteria. But some bacteria make Heat Stable Toxins as they multiply. These toxins can make you sick...Under normal circumstances, smoking at a constant temp of 225°F or higher, Pork Butts and a Packer Brisket has no trouble getting the IT above 140 in 4 hours or less so no issue and nothing to worry about. However, if you choose to inject meat, extra care must be taken to guarantee the smoker temp stays above 225 until the IT reaches 140°F or higher...JJ
Would you mind explaining why the 40-140 rule applies. Im new to smoking.
Thanks.
Ok, looking for clarification. I though I just saw something posted on these boards within the last couple of months that the 4/140 rule no longer applies? That, there was no need to hold off inserting thermometer probes. I can easily believe I misread it because it surprized me when I saw it.
Injecting can introduce surface Bacteria deep into the meat. With really thick roasts like a Pork Butt the interior can stay at the optimal temp for bacteria to multiply, 70 to 100°F, for many hours. The result can be rapid growth. Now this sounds like it is not that big a deal because we will smoke the meat to an IT of 200+ and kill all the bacteria. But some bacteria make Heat Stable Toxins as they multiply. These toxins can make you sick...Under normal circumstances, smoking at a constant temp of 225°F or higher, Pork Butts and a Packer Brisket has no trouble getting the IT above 140 in 4 hours or less so no issue and nothing to worry about. However, if you choose to inject meat, extra care must be taken to guarantee the smoker temp stays above 225 until the IT reaches 140°F or higher...JJ
I understand completely. NOW if its ground and not cured, I don't smoke it. I have never done a fatty even. You always hear of the problems with ground meats and rabbit foods. TacoBell at least twice a year, you never hear of a steak house, they must get better lettuce...>LOL
Therm probes have been up for debate as other than supposition, there is no verifiable proof online of anyone getting sick from inserting a probe in Raw Meat. USDA, FDA and CDC have nothing on it whatsoever. 40 to 140 in 4? It is a cautionary " guideline " accepted by SMF. It mostly applies to uncured Ground meat. As far as Injection, Punching in Garlic, Etc. and Boned Rolled and Tied meat...Are you going to fall over dead if the meat takes 4.25 hours or even 5 hours to get above 140°F? Not likely...BUT...Buy your meat then stop to eat a Pizza on the way home during July in Baton Rouge, get distracted at home and the meat sits on the counter a couple of hours, Freeze it then defrost overnight and all day on the counter, load said non-intact meat in the Smoker and Fall Asleep only to wake up 6 hours later and find the fire died, power went out or not as much gas as you thought, minutes after you passed out...NOW YOU GOT A PROBLEM! Yes, this scenario is unlikely and possibly ridiculous, but my point is any ONE mistake will probably not hurt any healthy individual. It takes multiple cases of neglect to become a risk. However, a simple guideline like 40 to 140 in 4 adds a margin of Safety just in case you or someone else, that handled the meat, made a mistake. Now I need to add, if you are feeding High Risk individuals, the very young the very old and anyone with a compromised immune system...You have no room for any mistakes when it comes to Food Safety!...JJ