Rancid Pork - Please Help?

[jcam222]

My opinion is that you did 2 things wrong to get a rancid type final product:
1. Injecting straight vinegar;
2. Too low of temps for too long of time.
Both of those together would be pretty nasty.

I agree with all to get back to basics. I can tell by just reading your pit temp is low. You need a good pit temp therm. That dial gauge on your smoker is junk. Get a remote. Something like this. Grab one from a box store, Lowes, HD, Walmart, Academy, etc if you need by the 4th.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C8ND33S...s=kitchen&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwy

Did he inject with vinegar or cider?

 

[zwiller]

Did he inject with vinegar or cider?

I knew I shouldn't have jumped into this one LOL. Ok looks like it was cider. Now that brings an interesting discussion. Here "cider" is not pasteurized. It could very well be that the bugs in the cider start to get going during all that time in the smoker (20hrs apparently). I am a big fan of injecting butts but use apple JUICE that is a pasteurized. I like Tree Top. Since I am posting again, I am HUGE fan of halving butts. Shortens cook nearly half and 2x more bark. No other way for me.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/butt-halved-success.298552/

 

[BigW.]

Lots of great advice already. To sum up..Keep it simple, rub on the outside no injections. Cook it hotter with a remote therm telling you correct grate temp. Mix up a apple cider based finishing sauce or just add half a cup after pulled for extra flavor/moisture. Here is some general info on WSM that may help.

WSM and Wood Chunk Quantities + Stick Burn Trial!

I've smoked a few times with my new WSM and absolutely love the flavor. For red meat, it absolutely creams my pellet grill because I get rich smoke flavor. However, it doesn't quite match my friend's offset (which is to be expected). Curious how to improve the smoke flavor even more. Right...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[thirdeye]

Apple cider and apple cider vinegar are two different things. Which did you use on this recent cook, and which did you use on your kettle cooked butts?

Apple cider is the fresh, fermented version, whereas apple cider vinegar goes through a second fermentation process, turning the sugars into acetic acid.

If you go with apple juice, or apple/white grape juice, I recommend adding 1 to 2 grams of salt per ounce of juice.

WSM's are great cookers, are you using water or sand in the water pan? And if you use water, are you heating it first??

Pork butts are the most forgiving of all the large barbecue meats, and pork is not USDA graded like beef. The customer needs to judge the color and marbling and sometimes has the option to purchase meat from higher quality producers. I currently buy Prairie Fresh pork products and prefer them to Smithfield.

As far as pit temp, I still cook bone-in butts in the 240° to 260° range, I use either competition injections, or a homemade injection with smoked pork broth, and Coca-Cola. And occasionally mist with apple juice/water spray. I wrap with good color which is usually around 160°.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Nix all the vinegar.

Rub down with mustard and a dry rub and just smoke that butt.
Have your smoker pre heated and ready for your room temp butt.

Easy Peasy

 

[DougE]

Nix all the vinegar.

Rub down with mustard and a dry rub and just smoke that butt.
Have your smoker pre heated and ready for your room temp butt.

Easy Peasy

What Rick said. Only thing I will add is to this is don't be afraid to run the temp up into the 275~300 range. You will have the same outcome as running lower, but in less time.

 

[Ishi]

When you wrap the butt add some brown sugar and a chunk of butter!! Makes for heavenly pulled pork sandwiches

 

[BBQGrandMmmDisaster]

Thanks VERY MUCH for all of the responses. I rarely use any Apple Cider Vinegar - but I did the last time. Never again ;)

If I'm using the minion method - which I normally use for an overnight cook - I don't see how it is I would ever possibly avoid the "bad smoke"? The briquettes are always lighting new briquettes? Or is there some kind of chemical magic that happens when I place the four coals on top, and they spread enough "heat" to the other coals so that when those coals eventually light - they're then preheated enough to avoid putting out the bad smoke? Same with the wood? If that's true, then how long should I wait after starting the minion to put the meat on the smoker?

And I'm guessing injection has a different effect than soaking? The soaked pork definitely won't come up to 140 in 4 hours at 225 or even 250. But is it the same if I inject the cold pork with cold apple juice right before I put it on the smoker? Can I then risk the lower temperature?

Hopefully I'm making sense - I'm trying to both avoid the bad smoke and also going as "low and slow" as possible without screwing up? ;)

I have smoked a 5 pound butt at 275-300, and it indeed wasn't rancid. But it also lacked much of any smokey flavor and was just very greasy, had too much gristle, and was very difficult to pull? And I did take it off the smoker at 200 and let it rest for 45 minutes. But it was just... not rancid, but still not very good? But possibly the higher temperature wasn't at fault - it was because it had been soaked? Again - I obviously have no clue?

 

[SmokinEdge]

Thanks VERY MUCH for all of the responses. I rarely use any Apple Cider Vinegar - but I did the last time. Never again ;)

If I'm using the minion method - which I normally use for an overnight cook - I don't see how it is I would ever possibly avoid the "bad smoke"? The briquettes are always lighting new briquettes? Or is there some kind of chemical magic that happens when I place the four coals on top, and they spread enough "heat" to the other coals so that when those coals eventually light - they're then preheated enough to avoid putting out the bad smoke? Same with the wood? If that's true, then how long should I wait after starting the minion to put the meat on the smoker?

And I'm guessing injection has a different effect than soaking? The soaked pork definitely won't come up to 140 in 4 hours at 225 or even 250. But is it the same if I inject the cold pork with cold apple juice right before I put it on the smoker? Can I then risk the lower temperature?

Hopefully I'm making sense - I'm trying to both avoid the bad smoke and also going as "low and slow" as possible without screwing up? ;)

I have smoked a 5 pound butt at 275-300, and it indeed wasn't rancid. But it also lacked much of any smokey flavor and was just very greasy, had too much gristle, and was very difficult to pull? And I did take it off the smoker at 200 and let it rest for 45 minutes. But it was just... not rancid, but still not very good? But possibly the higher temperature wasn't at fault - it was because it had been soaked? Again - I obviously have no clue?

Cook at the higher temps and pull when probe tender and not to a specific temperature. Once the temp on IT hits around 195-200 just start probing with a skewer or hand held therm probe. As the temp climes it will eventually probe like pushing into room temp butta. When the meat is soft then it’s done. Temperature on internal is a range not a set thing.

 

[BBQGrandMmmDisaster]

Well I have two 5 pound butts. I have my 14.5 WSM all set up for the minion method, with 2 apple wood chunks under the coals and 2 chunks above the coals. I'm gonna light 6 coals in my chimney, and when they get red hot, toss them on top in the center, barely touching one of the top wood chunks to get it started? I'm using Kingsford Low n Slow briquets.

I've got the water pan foiled - and, since this will be an overnight cook, not using any water - because, otherwise, the water boils out after 4 hours and the temperature would spike way too high.

So, while the minion is starting its minion thing - I'll be injecting the butts with the Musselman's cold pressed apple juice until the juice starts squirting out of the butt, as plump as I can get it with the apple juice? Then slather them up with mustard and sprinkle on the AP rub.

Then back out to the smoker to play with the vents - still not sure how long to wait so I don't get acrid bad smoke? Try to get it up to 275?

Then place one butt on the bottom grill, then the other one on the top grill at a 90 degree angles to each other? Or would that make the bottom one gross with the fat dripping on it from the top one - so instead try to place them parallel, one to the left, the other to the right as best possible?

Then play with the vents for the next 30 minutes until I get it to the set temperature - and just go to bed.

But here's the thing - my experience with the minion is that, after a couple of hours, it's running at least 25 degrees hotter than it initially did - as I'm guessing more coals are eventually all lit at the same time?

So should I then set it initially at 250 before I leave it for the night - as I expect it'll be running at least 275 by the next day? Or set it at 275 initially?

 

[912smoker]

All of the advice above was to keep this cook simple without injection, yet you still plan to ? And to cook at a higher temp. As others have said, the butt doesn't care what temp it's cooked at.
250 -275 doesn't matter.

Keith

 

[DougE]

Remember the 140 IT in 4 hours if you insist on injecting.

 

[BBQGrandMmmDisaster]

All of the advice above was to keep this cook simple without injection, yet you still plan to ? And to cook at a higher temp. As others have said, the butt doesn't care what temp it's cooked at.
250 -275 doesn't matter.

Keith

My very bad - I thought it was the soaking that was ruining the meat? I thought injection was okay?

I've smoked Boston Butts with no injection. I realize everyone has different tastes - but I don't like them. I'd be a horrible judge at a BBQ competition.

Remember the 140 IT in 4 hours if you insist on injecting.

Again, my VERY bad. I should have phrased my question differently - very sorry for wasting everyone's time?

I really enjoy the apple flavor - and I formerly had great luck even with the soaking back when I smoked on my Kettle. So I'm absolutely certain that apple juice or cider is required for the flavor profile I'm hunting.

 

[jcam222]

Baffling

 

[BigW.]

As I mentioned earlier:
Mix up a apple cider based finishing sauce or just add half a cup after pulled for extra flavor/moisture.

Mine usually finish above 203* when they probe tender. When you pull, discard any gristle, connective tissue etc.

 

[civilsmoker]

My very bad - I thought it was the soaking that was ruining the meat? I thought injection was okay?

I've smoked Boston Butts with no injection. I realize everyone has different tastes - but I don't like them. I'd be a horrible judge at a BBQ competition.



Again, my VERY bad. I should have phrased my question differently - very sorry for wasting everyone's time?

I really enjoy the apple flavor - and I formerly had great luck even with the soaking back when I smoked on my Kettle. So I'm absolutely certain that apple juice or cider is required for the flavor profile I'm hunting.

FYI, in addition to all the very good advice, I gave you two recipes on how to do exactly what you want in flavor profile that are easy peezy..... ie you will NEVER get the level of flavor profile "soaking or injecting" as you will with a finishing sauce.

 

[thirdeye]

Well, you have several experiments going at the same time. I'm looking forward to hearing your observations following the cook. Keep good notes

I'm thinking that the biggest thing in your favor is the fact your butts are 5# instead of 7# or 8#. Maybe I missed it, but are they bone-in or boneless?

Since you mentioned injections, and got a lot of advice, there is one more injection method that is very safe for large barbecue cuts of meat. It's called a late injection, and is done about 2 hours into the cook, because the surface temp will be higher than 140°, and any surface bacteria will be dead, and won't be carried into the meat by the injection needle. Harry Soo has gone as far as suggesting waiting until the internal temp is around 100° (which is close to pigs and steers normal temperature). Anyway, still shoot for 1 ounce per pound

The last tip I have is "don't forget about your oven". Meaning, anytime you have fire management problems... move those butts into a 250°+ oven, then solve the problems, then put the meat back on the pit. And if you opt to wrap, just use your oven to finish the cook.

PS - Long rest times are not mandatory, but rest at least an hour. If you want to go longer, vent the foil for about 10 minutes, then rest in a cooler with a towel or newspaper for insulation.

 

[BBQGrandMmmDisaster]

Okay - well... kicking it up a notch!!!!! ;) Heck, the dogs don't call their next door neighbor the GrandMaster for nothin'!

When I went to bed, the fire was at 275. My probes then went off at 325 - so I just went out and closed down all the bottom vents to 1/8. Temperature then settled back around 275 and I shut off all alarms and went back to sleep. I'm the menthol of smokers?

So... just woke up and the butts were both at 150, and the fire was at 200. So that low 'n slow Kingsford really lived up to its name - not even 7 hours! But I was asleep - so who knows what went on?

I was gonna toss it, but I've had this same thing happen before with my Kettle and the butts recovered in the oven?

So the oven is at 275, and if yumminess soon begins filling the kitchen - yeehaw! If not, the dogs next door are in for yet another treat!

I never knew who bought me this 14.5 WSM? But... I'm now starting to get VERY suspicious? Mine's apparently a Weber special edition - came with a small metal tag shaped like a bone that reads "YUM!"

Anyhow - I looked back over my notes - and apparently this happened once before with my Kettle and it's marked as "BEST EVER". The rest of this post is sarcastic - but this last part is actually true?

So - if the house soon starts filling with a delicious aroma - I'll see it through to 195. If not, I'll...

Hold on - UPS truck outside. WOW!!!! Look at the size of this smoker! The whole thing is shaped like a giant bone! I didn't know UPS trucks pulled trailers. He's backing it into the back yard now - gotta go open the fence...

 

[schlotz]

In for the final results!

 

[BBQGrandMmmDisaster]

They're still setting up the lights and cameras here.

I'm really nervous. Joe and Don are expecting my very best. They just finished a round of golf.

And I'll just secretly share this with you good folks. Definitely hide the powder when boy wonder comes to visit. Think he snorted up my whole stash!

About to take it out of the oven - actually I just leave it to rest in the oven, as taking it off the rack usually leads to it prematurely falling apart on me.

Don says his barbecue is the very best - people love it - it's the best ever - so.... I'm kinda nervous? Joe's just kinda sitting there. No, wait - Jill just walked over, congratulated him for doing such a wonderful job, sitting there - he's exceeded everyone's expectations.

Okay... gosh am I SO nervous! Oven's shut down - so should have results in an hour!