Hot Dog Emulsion Question

[agcrock2005]

I was asked to make some wagyu hot dogs for someone using their ground wagyu. I froze the ground meat in strips and ran through grinder then made back into strips and froze again. 45 mins later I ran through grinder, added my seasonings and ran through grinder again while it was very cold. I added to kitchenaid in 3 lb batches and added ice water slowly while mixing. Emulsion was good. I didn't add enough water so when stuffing the mixture came around the seal due to pressue. I continued stuffing until I got to the bottom. By the time I got the meat that had come around the seal, it had lost its emulsion. 4 lbs of the 6 lb batch! Can I do something to the meat to get the emulsion back? Like adding to blender and adding ice chips? Anything??? It's a huge pain in the butt to make, and I hate wasting so much time (and meat). Plus, the flavor is awesome and I really want to make the other 4 lbs! Thanks!

 

[SmokinEdge]

g. Emulsion was good. I didn't add enough water so when stuffing the mixture came around the seal due to pressue. I continued stuffing until I got to the bottom. By the time I got the meat that had come around the seal, it had lost its emulsion. 4 lbs of the 6 lb batch!

Are you saying that 4# of the meat pushed past the seal?

 

[paulgeorge]

I was asked to make some wagyu hot dogs for someone using their ground wagyu. I froze the ground meat in strips and ran through grinder then made back into strips and froze again. 45 mins later I ran through grinder, added my seasonings and ran through grinder again while it was very cold. I added to kitchenaid in 3 lb batches and added ice water slowly while mixing. Emulsion was good. I didn't add enough water so when stuffing the mixture came around the seal due to pressue. I continued stuffing until I got to the bottom. By the time I got the meat that had come around the seal, it had lost its emulsion. 4 lbs of the 6 lb batch! Can I do something to the meat to get the emulsion back? Like adding to blender and adding ice chips? Anything??? It's a huge pain in the butt to make, and I hate wasting so much time (and meat). Plus Car Parking, the flavor is awesome and I really want to make the other 4 lbs! Thanks!

I wanted to try to make some homemade hot dogs. I was trying to figure out what meats to use to grind up. Would you guys suggest doing something lean like shank/sirloin and then cut it with beef fat or just go with good ol' chuck that is already at 80/20? Appreciate the help!

 

[KBFlyer]

Are you saying that 4# of the meat pushed past the seal?

Ya I was wondering the same thing.

 

[KBFlyer]

I wanted to try to make some homemade hot dogs. I was trying to figure out what meats to use to grind up. Would you guys suggest doing something lean like shank/sirloin and then cut it with beef fat or just go with good ol' chuck that is already at 80/20? Appreciate the help!

You might want to start your own post so the OP can get his problem figured out first.
You might get a better responce if you have your own post.

 

[JckDanls 07]

You might want to start your own post so the OP can get his problem figured out first.
You might get a better responce if you have your own post.

Beat me to it KBFlyer ...

I'm also curious about the 4# ...

I know boykjo does quite a bit with hot dogs... Maybe he will chime in...

 

[indaswamp]

I'm curious too....


To the OP:
Temperature is very important when making a meat emulsion. if the batter gets too hot in the chopper, the emulsion will break. If I remember right, over 45*F and you will have issues....

 

[JckDanls 07]

Curious also what you are using to stuff with ?

 

[chopsaw]

By the time I got the meat that had come around the seal, it had lost its emulsion. 4 lbs of the 6 lb batch!

Not sure what stuffer you're using , but if you lost 4 lbs out of the canister , past the seal , you should have stopped way before that .
Sounds like the piston got out of round with the canister , due to extreme pressure .

Even if your stuffer holds the bulk of the emulsion , do it in small batches .

Can I do something to the meat to get the emulsion back? Like adding to blender and adding ice chips ?

My opinion os no . Sounds like you already added to much , or whipped to much air into it .

 

[indaswamp]

Here ya go...

 

[agcrock2005]

Not sure what stuffer you're using , but if you lost 4 lbs out of the canister , past the seal , you should have stopped way before that .
Sounds like the piston got out of round with the canister , due to extreme pressure .

Even if your stuffer holds the bulk of the emulsion , do it in small batches .



My opinion os no . Sounds like you already added to much , or whipped to much air into it .

Thanks. Can't believe I didn't know about this site until a couple months ago. Wealth of expertise around here. Unfortunately I believe you're correct as well. I normally use a 30# LEM electric stuffer but because hotdogs are a science experiement to me that I don't understand, I decreased my batch size and used my old smaller LEM dual gear stuffer. I believe I had two major issues. All was going well until I shoved 6 lbs of 33 degree emulsified meat into stuffer then slowly stuffed allowing temp to rise. The biggest issue was not having enough water in the mixture and pressure getting out of control causing the meat to bypas the seal. That meat was well over 40 degrees by the time I could try to rescue it.

Was more than half of my batch that made it through the seal unfortunately. This was my second attempt at hot dogs and I royally screwed the entire first 16# batch up because of temperature, so that's all I was focused on this time around. Any tips would be appreciated!

How do you pros introduce water to the emulsion? I've see ice chips and really cold water, etc but nothing concrete.

 

[indaswamp]

^^^^see the video I posted....

 

[agcrock2005]

^^^^see the video I posted....

Will check out tomorrow. Didn't see it. Still trying to get use to this site. Really appreciate the advice.

 

[SmokinEdge]

I would address that seal. No way that meat should have or could have breached that seal. That is a problem.

 

[chopsaw]

introduce water to the emulsion? I've see ice chips and really cold water, etc but nothing concrete.

I use a food processor and water with ice in a cup .
I do 2 1/2 pound batches .
I do one grind through the 1/8 inch plate .
Then I mix in my seasonings and any water it needs , and hand mix .

Then I split that in two and go in the food processor .
I pulse the blade , and add water a little at a time .
I don't add ice to the mix , I only use it to cool the water .
The half on the left is ready , the half on the right is about halfway there .


Both halves done , and mixed together .

Stuffed and poached . This has no cure .


I don't get hung up on the temp of the meat paste . Process small batches and get it done .
Leave what you're not working with in the fridge . You'll be fine .

Don't over do it , or add to much water . I don't watch a lot of those videos , but I see he runs the food processor full on instead of pulsing . I think full on works the meat paste to much .
Just my opinion .

If your option is to use the stand mixer , don't add ice , use cold water .
Only add the water it needs . If it's not fully emulsified that's OK .

 

[agcrock2005]

I use a food processor and water with ice in a cup .
I do 2 1/2 pound batches .
I do one grind through the 1/8 inch plate .
Then I mix in my seasonings and any water it needs , and hand mix .

Then I split that in two and go in the food processor .
I pulse the blade , and add water a little at a time .
I don't add ice to the mix , I only use it to cool the water .
The half on the left is ready , the half on the right is about halfway there .

View attachment 696851
Both halves done , and mixed together .
View attachment 696852
Stuffed and poached . This has no cure .
View attachment 696853

I don't get hung up on the temp of the meat paste . Process small batches and get it done .
Leave what you're not working with in the fridge . You'll be fine .

Don't over do it , or add to much water . I don't watch a lot of those videos , but I see he runs the food processor full on instead of pulsing . I think full on works the meat paste to much .
Just my opinion .

If your option is to use the stand mixer , don't add ice , use cold water .
Only add the water it needs . If it's not fully emulsified that's OK .

Very helpful. Thanks. I think that I overdid it in the food processor as well.

 

[zwiller]

All good stuff. Based on some of the comments I saw I thought posting this might be a good idea.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/hot-dogs-using-the-champion-juicer-review.294720/

 

[chopsaw]

Very helpful. Thanks. I think that I overdid it in the food processor as well.

That's just how I do it . Take all the advice given and turn it into something that works for you .
More than one way to do all of this .

Part of the overworking whips to much air into the paste . Like eating a sponge .
By the way it sounds , that's part of what happened to your batch .
My LEM 5 pound doesn't like the small tube . If I'm using that I have to go from the mix to the stuffer .
You can flex them enough that the shaft isn't centered in the can . That can cause the piston to not be square with the sides , and that opens up up gap that lets the paste get past .

 

[DEERMAKER]

Awesome info and advice on this site!
This group is always helpful in big ways!

 

[indaswamp]

I would address that seal. No way that meat should have or could have breached that seal. That is a problem.

My off brand 15# manual stuffer had a one-way seal. If you put it in wrong, it would leak meat with very little pressure....I forget what brand it was..