Sugar Free Curing?

[atomicsmoke]

Im missing something.... WHY is Nitrates not allowed by the FDA? Is it because of the nitrosamine issue?

If you dry cure/age belly with nitrates and call it pancetta that's ok.... and even eat it raw.

Depends who you listen too...some say nitrosamines form even at low temps.

 

[browneyesvictim]

Ok... so why single out just bacon? There are other products besides bacon, that are either cured with tenderquick or where Cure #2 is used, and many that are fried such as ham or Canadian bacon etc.

Then the quote from Morton infers they don't recommend curing bacon with tenderquick because it has to do with fat content... I'm reading between the lines here...

 

[atomicsmoke]

Ok... so why single out just bacon? There are other products besides bacon, that are either cured with tenderquick or where Cure #2 is used, and many that are fried such as ham or Canadian bacon etc.

Then the quote from Morton infers they don't recommend curing bacon with tenderquick because it has to do with fat content... I'm reading between the lines here...

I think bacon is singled out as is cooked longer at higher temps and eaten more often.

Not sure what Morton's trying with the "fat content".

 

[browneyesvictim]

For what its worth and in line with the context of this post... there was a thread a while back that I bookmarked from Martin AKA diggingdogfarm.

Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm

Here's my recipe for a cure that's used at the same rate as Morton® Tender Quick® for recipes NOT requiring nitrate.

17.5 oz salt (I use pickling salt)
5.0 oz sugar
2 oz cure #1

It's super easy to use...…
For dry curing....use one tablespoon (1/2 oz.) per pound of meat.
For curing ground meats such as sausage....use 1/2 tablespoon (1/4 oz.) per pound of meat...it provides ALL the cure and the salt for the recipe.....no additional salt is needed.

~Dig"

There was also a posting of what is listed on the MSDS for Morton Tenderquick. As you can see there isn't that much sugar. I have made and used the above listed formula for making bacon with great success. But I do add additional brown sugar for every tablespoon needed for my tastes.

 

[Bearcarver]

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...at-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index
Read Does bacon contain additives?

If I ever start selling my Bacon commercially I'll stop using it, because I'll be using cure injection like the commercial oufits do. This is part of the problem. I had a few "discussions" about what you're worried about over the years.
A couple years ago I contacted USDA, and I told them I've been using TQ for years, and one guy keeps crying about it being unsafe. They said not to worry about it, and just keep making my Home Made Bacon the way I have been.

Also, If it was dangerous I believe the USDA would make Morton Salt either stop selling it, or at least put a warning on it "Not to be used for curing Bacon".

Bear

 

[wade]

Yes, the issue with Nitrate is that it has been shown to produce Nitrosamines when heated to high temperature (e.g. when fried). Nitrosamines have been indicated as a cause of cancer in rats - but I have not seen anything to extrapolate this to humans. The Nitrate restrictions are as a precaution and I can understand why this is the case.
There does not appear to be an issue with the use of Nitrates in meat that is not heated to high temperatures (e.g. pancetta) and this has been traditionally used for meat preservation many years

 

[Bearcarver]

"We cannot recommend Morton Tender Quick for use with pork belly or bacon. Due to the differing fat content of individual cuts, the curing time for these items may vary significantly. For this reason, we cannot recommend the appropriate amount of Tender Quick or curing time in this application."

I have never been a fan of TQ but this statement suggests that TQ should not be used with any meat that does not have known percentage of fat. Or are they suggesting that this is an issue with specifically pork fat?

Looks to me that they are only not recommending TQ for Bacon, because they can't tell you how much TQ to use because they don't know how much fat is in your "Belly". They aren't even talking about Nitrosamines.
They're only worried about the fact that Fatty Meat needs a different amount of cure than leaner meat.

I use it because my Dry cured TQ Bacon tastes better than anything else I have ever tried, as does my Dried Beef.

Bear

 

[mski2]

From what i know (little) nitrite is what leads to nitrosamines. Not nitrate. But nitrate is converted in nitrite long after the initial nitrite has been used up.

True if you cure it long enough the Nitrates wil covert to Nitrites and then to Nitric Oxide,just takes longer, bacon is cured quickly and Nirites convert to Nitric Oxide. Reason it is recommended

 

[daveomak]

Nitrates need a bacteria, found in meats, to convert to nitrite... That conversion does not happen at refrigerator temps due to the lack of necessary bacteria... The bacteria necessary for conversion will grow and multiply above ~50ish deg. F... For that reason, dry cured whole muscle meats and fermented meats are "cured" above ~53 F.... or something like that...

 

[wade]

Looks to me that they are only not recommending TQ for Bacon, because they can't tell you how much TQ to use because they don't know how much fat is in your "Belly". They aren't even talking about Nitrosamines.
They're only worried about the fact that Fatty Meat needs a different amount of cure than leaner meat.

Bear

This makes their statement even more difficult to understand as this would put into question the use of any form of curing salt on meat that contains fat. Are they just protecting themselves from potential litigation (rhetorical question) as it does not appear to be in line with any official recommendations. Have the USDA published something recently that could have led them to make this disclaimer?

 

[mski2]

Nitrates need a bacteria, found in meats, to convert to nitrite... That conversion does not happen at refrigerator temps due to the lack of necessary bacteria... The bacteria necessary for conversion will grow and multiply above ~50ish deg. F... For that reason, dry cured whole muscle meats and fermented meats are "cured" above ~53 F.... or something like that...[/QU
Meat cures in refer temps just slower, I pre cure my sausage meat that way , also just cured a coppa 10 days for a UMAI bag.
#4 below

https://www.mortonsalt.com/article/meat-curing-methods/

 

[wade]

Meat cures in refer temps just slower, I pre cure my sausage meat that way , also just cured a coppa 10 days for a UMAI bag.

The curing of the meat and the conversion of Nitrate to Nitrite are different things. The meat will cure happily with the Nitrite at fridge temperatures but daveomak was referring to the conversion of Nitrate to Nitrite - which, as he says, is predominantly done though bacterial action. This would slow right down and almost stop at fridge temperatures.

 

[daveomak]

I'm not sure what your point is.... mski2

NITRATE USED IN CURED COMMINUTED, PICKLED, AND DRY PRODUCTS
Introduction
Nitrate is used as a source of nitrite. If nitrate is used as the curing agent, the conversion
(reduction) of nitrate to nitrite by bacteria in the meat or poultry is a necessary step in the
development of the cured color. The amount of nitrate that is reduced to nitrite is dependent
upon the numbers of nitrate-reducing bacteria and several environmental conditions such as
temperature, moisture content, salt content, and pH. Hence, the conversion rate and subsequent
amount of nitrite that is formed is difficult to control. Similarly, the further reduction of nitrite to
nitric oxide, which reacts with myoglobin (muscle pigment) to produce the cured color, is also
affected by the same environmental conditions. If nitrite is used as the curing agent, there is no
need for the nitrate reduction step, and the development of the cured color is much more rapid.
The poor control associated with the reduction of nitrate to nitrite, coupled with the fact that
most processors today demand faster curing methods, has lead to the diminished use of nitrate in
meat and poultry products.
http://food-safety.guru/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/USDA-edited-cure-calculations.pdf

 

[mski2]

Temperature was my point, just slower the lower the temp.
Now fermentation is a different story.

 

[wade]

Looks like this part of the thread conversation may be going a bit off track.
The TQ contains both Nitrite and Nitrate and so will work well as a cure for meats that are not going to be heat processed (e.g. frying). The Nitrite will cure the meat and provide the required colour and the Nitrate will be converted to Nitrite over time through bacterial action to top up the Nitrite as it is depleted. It is the presence of the Nitrate that I would have expected to be the reason that TQ cited as to why it should not be used in bacon - not that its rate of uptake into fat is unpredictable. This does not seem to make sense.

 

[mski2]

Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines , and it takes 600 degrees to make that happen.
Bottom line Don't Burn your Bacon

 

[atomicsmoke]

Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines , and it takes 600 degrees to make that happen.
Bottom line Don't Burn your Bacon

Actually nitrosamines form when frying bacon at as low as 340F.

For years i've been cooking bacon in the oven at under 300F. Learned that here.

It seems nitrosamines can also form in our stomach from cured (uncooked) meat. But then they can also form when you eat uncured meat...since bacteria in our mouth converts nitrate to nitrite all the time. And you get plenty of nitrate from vegetables and water.

 

[daveomak]

Please cite the article where you found the "600 degrees" to form nitrosamines..

Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines , and it takes 600 degrees to make that happen.
Bottom line Don't Burn your Bacon

 

[wade]

Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines

Yes, I am agreeing with you that FAT is a strange thing for Morton to use as a reason for not recommending its use for making bacon. I cannot see where they have got this from. I can understand them using the Nitrate content... but not the fat content...

 

[wade]

According to the NCBI, Nitrosamines are formed at the temperature of 340 F (171 C). However it is not clear as to whether they are also formed at temperatures below this.
It can be found in this NCBI article on page 362
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1424609/pdf/pubhealthrep00104-0034.pdf

"The heat normally used to fry bacon to its desired crispness-approximately 340 F-resulted in the formation of nitrosamines in the fried bacon (7)."

7. Nitrates, nitrites, and salt. Notice of proposed rulemaking.
Federal Register 40: 52614-52616, No. 218, Nov. 11,
1975.