Generation 1ish Rounded top controller. Electronics Guru Wanted

[stephan28]

I'm curious if anyone has figured out what is the root cause of the generation 1ish top mounted controllers with the rounded edges to fail? Specifically the fault where it turns off by itself when attempting to power on and or set time and temperature. Surely with all of these users having problems someone who is an electronics genius has tried to OR has figured it out.

All that is inside the control box is a circuit card with mostly solid state electronics and a couple of capacitors.

 

[bbqwillie]

I pretty much gave up on the MES controllers. Too much temp variation and the failure rate seems awfully high. I replaced mine with a an Auber PID and have been happy ever since. I've also built a few PIDS at about half the cost of the Auber unit that do as well as the Auber units. Temps are usually within +- 2*, with almost no over/under shoot after an autotune.

 

[stephan28]

I pretty much gave up on the MES controllers. Too much temp variation and the failure rate seems awfully high. I replaced mine with a an Auber PID and have been happy ever since. I've also built a few PIDS at about half the cost of the Auber unit that do as well as the Auber units. Temps are usually within +- 2*, with almost no over/under shoot after an autotune.

I'd be interested in what you've been able to come up with. I may end up doing that myself.

There HAS to be someone who knows what fails on the MES controllers. Especially since so many of them show the same symptoms.

 

[bbqwillie]

I'd be interested in what you've been able to come up with. I may end up doing that myself.

There HAS to be someone who knows what fails on the MES controllers. Especially since so many of them show the same symptoms.

Most of the units I've built use a REX C100 Digital PID as the heart of the system. These are cheap (~$10) Chinese units but they function well. I couple that to a 25A SSR and your done! 

The REX comes in two types. One that has a RELAY output and one that has a SSRdirect output. The SSRdirect is what you want but you can use the RELAY type in a pinch if you use a power supply on the output side. I use a 5V2A supply that costs about $8 for those builds.

By the time you add an enclosure, the wire, crimps, fuses, power supply (optional for the RELAY driven PID) and update the overload thermostat in the MES, the total project  cost comes to around $70.

One thing to be aware of is you want to limit the MES30 max temp to 300#F as that is the limit of the insulation Masterbuilt uses. Above the 300 limit the insulation may out gas.

The actual wiring is child's play if you have any electrical expertise. If not there are many here that will be happy to help you out, including myself.

 

[cmayna]

A fellow member gave me this retired MES40 with a broken controller. No problem for I was planning to install this Auber PID set up. Best thing I ever did. Once in awhile I test it's accuracy against one of my Fluke meters. Dead on dude!!

I basically disconnected the original wires from the heating element and connected a power cord directly to the heating element. Plug the power cord into the Auber box which controls the element.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dward51]

Why do the fail?  Cheap Chinese components from the lowest priced vendor.

Solution - convert to PID control as others have suggested.

 

[mosparky]

Just curious, why not use the original SSR and overload thermostat on the MES, other than starting over with all new ?

 

[dward51]

I would keep the "overload thermostat" or themal limiter switch, aka "snap switch" as it is a safety device.  As to the stock SSR, it is of the same age and source as the other components that have already failed and 25amp SSR's are cheap.  Just make sure to heat sink it properly.  Basically with a PID & SSR you are not using the MES control board at all.

 

[bbqwillie]

I change out the the thermal resistor for one with a slightly higher rating. I do that because I like to cook chicken at 285 - 295 and with spikes I've tripped the stock thermal resistor in the middle of a cook! Because of that I replace the stock one (300* trip) with one rated to trip at 350*. Gives me some pad to play with.

I use an aftermarket SSR because 1) they are cheap, 2) I don't want any of the old controller parts in my new controller.

 

[stephan28]

Most of the units I've built use a REX C100 Digital PID as the heart of the system. These are cheap (~$10) Chinese units but they function well. I couple that to a 25A SSR and your done! 

The REX comes in two types. One that has a RELAY output and one that has a SSRdirect output. The SSRdirect is what you want but you can use the RELAY type in a pinch if you use a power supply on the output side. I use a 5V2A supply that costs about $8 for those builds.

By the time you add an enclosure, the wire, crimps, fuses, power supply (optional for the RELAY driven PID) and update the overload thermostat in the MES, the total project  cost comes to around $70.

One thing to be aware of is you want to limit the MES30 max temp to 300#F as that is the limit of the insulation Masterbuilt uses. Above the 300 limit the insulation may out gas.

The actual wiring is child's play if you have any electrical expertise. If not there are many here that will be happy to help you out, including myself.

I'm interested in this setup. Do you happen to have any pictures of the build process and/or any links to the specific products that need to be purchased? I can wire things up no problem. I just need to know what parts I need, how to connect them together and how to interface it into the smoker itself.

Thanks!

 

[bbqwillie]

I'm interested in this setup. Do you happen to have any pictures of the build process and/or any links to the specific products that need to be purchased? I can wire things up no problem. I just need to know what parts I need, how to connect them together and how to interface it into the smoker itself.

Thanks!

Check your PM.

 

[stephan28]

 
Check your PM.

Thanks. Check yours 

 

[okanagan]

I MAY have maybe figured out the problem and a solution that has solved it so far.

The problem is apparently humidity and trace moisture that causes the controller to short out and shut off.  A solution that has worked so far for me is to take the controller inside a climate controlled house, keep it there for three or four days and then put it back on the smoker.  From now on I remove the controller and take it in the house after each smoke session.  Two screws and two plug-ins.  Annoying solution but works.  A hair dryer might speed up the drying.

 After two summers of use mine suddenly shut itself off before I could set temp/time and after that would only click when I hit the on button.  I phoned Masterbuilt Customer
Service, got a great gal who told me that the problem was moisture in the controller, even though mine sits on a covered portion of deck with a waterproof cover on it.  Not dry enough.  I ordered another controller, paid for since my Sportsman Elite is past warranty.  She recommended that I detach the controller after each use and take it inside my house, not just into a garage.   While I waited for my new controller to arrive, I removed the old defective controller, took it in the house for several days and on a whim, put it back on the Sportsman Elite smoker.  Voila!  It worked, so I smoked a venison roast for 3 hours.  Then removed the controller and took it inside my house.  I plan to keep the new controller and have a spare.

Love my smoker but am amazed and disappointed that Masterbuilt does not make the controller skookum enough to handle humidity on a covered deck or porch, where I'm sure the majority are kept.

 

[stephan28]

I MAY have maybe figured out the problem and a solution that has solved it so far.

The problem is apparently humidity and trace moisture that causes the controller to short out and shut off.  A solution that has worked so far for me is to take the controller inside a climate controlled house, keep it there for three or four days and then put it back on the smoker.  From now on I remove the controller and take it in the house after each smoke session.  Two screws and two plug-ins.  Annoying solution but works.  A hair dryer might speed up the drying.

 After two summers of use mine suddenly shut itself off before I could set temp/time and after that would only click when I hit the on button.  I phoned Masterbuilt Customer

Service, got a great gal who told me that the problem was moisture in the controller, even though mine sits on a covered portion of deck with a waterproof cover on it.  Not dry enough.  I ordered another controller, paid for since my Sportsman Elite is past warranty.  She recommended that I detach the controller after each use and take it inside my house, not just into a garage.   While I waited for my new controller to arrive, I removed the old defective controller, took it in the house for several days and on a whim, put it back on the Sportsman Elite smoker.  Voila!  It worked, so I smoked a venison roast for 3 hours.  Then removed the controller and took it inside my house.  I plan to keep the new controller and have a spare.

Love my smoker but am amazed and disappointed that Masterbuilt does not make the controller skookum enough to handle humidity on a covered deck or porch, where I'm sure the majority are kept.

I am very happy that you found a solution that works for you. I may have to try using a hair dryer (on cold) on mine. However mine has NEVER worked, not once. I am still awaiting parts from Masterbuilt.

Living in Washington State most homes DO NOT have air conditioners to include my house. I'm western Washington there is a couple of weeks that get into the 80's and that's it.

 

[okanagan]

Man, that's a bummer if yours never worked.  I live two or three miles north of the border just above Lynden, WA, no AC, climate like Bellingham with lots of rain the norm.

 

[stephan28]

Man, that's a bummer if yours never worked.  I live two or three miles north of the border just above Lynden, WA, no AC, climate like Bellingham with lots of rain the norm.

Awesome, your weather is pretty close to mine. So you're actually in Canada. I'm north of Seattle in the Snohomish area.

Yeah mine acted strange from the get-go. As soon as I powered it up the temperature display would show an ambient temp and then something close to freezing. Sometime between powering it on and setting a cook time the unit would shut off. Sometimes I could enter a temp, sometimes I could get all the way to a time before it shut down. I could never get it to heat up at all. It would always power off before that step could be reached.

Frustrating!

 

[johnnyb54]

Stephan28, I replaced the stock controller on my MES 40 with a Auber controller. I documented this journey in my post that can be found here
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/260975/its-alive-the-auber-masterbuilt-hybrid-the-frankenbuilt. It totally changed the MES. Another member TallBM also documented his mod, just do a search for TallBM. Hope this helps

 

[stephan28]

Stephan28, I replaced the stock controller on my MES 40 with a Auber controller. I documented this journey in my post that can be found here
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/260975/its-alive-the-auber-masterbuilt-hybrid-the-frankenbuilt. It totally changed the MES. Another member TallBM also documented his mod, just do a search for TallBM. Hope this helps

Thanks, I'll definitely check that out.

 

[bbqwillie]

I finally pulled apart a relay driven REX C100, boy was I surprised! Turns out the relay out is driven by a 12V 2A zener clamped trigger. You can remove the relay and tap across the relay input to get a 12V 2A output at pins 4&5. That will drive a SSR directly, so no need for a power supply on the relay output. The mod is trivial and can be done in about 20 minutes with a soldering iron and two jumpers. Yes, it's all DC voltage.