first time SS in the sous vide

[runswithbeer]

hi all,
first post on this forum. I am a long time smoker originally from Wisconsin, now living in the great state of Texas, south Texas that is, right on the border. the cold and dark Wisconsin winters finally drove me out.
I made a 6 pound batch of summer sausage today and it turned out to be dog food, If I can find a dog that would like it , that is.
today I tried the sous vide method for the first time. I used 4 lbs. of 80/20 Wally world ground chuck and 2lbs. of Wally's ground pork. I have used this mix for quite a long and never had any problems. mixed it on Saturday, stuffed it on Sunday, smoked it today. I have used this mix with my own spices for a long time.
into the smoker to dry at 120 for an hour, bump it too 140 and put in my amazn smoke tube for about 4 hours just like I always do. at 136 degrees I pulled it out of the smoker. I had 7 sticks. I bagged them 2 at a time in foodsaver bags. one I left the temp. probe in it and hung in a bag on the side. I have a cooler with sous vide machine sitting in a hole on the top. the temp was 151. it took about 2 hours to get the internal temp to 151. I then let it run for an hour at 151, for a 3 hour total. I cooled them quickly in ice water. then I checked them out. the one with the temp probe first. fat and juice just ran out the casing. I panicked and checked the rest, all wrinkled casings with fat and juice running out. the whole batch is ruined. what happened? I am dumb founded. I'm sitting here typing this in a state of shock. any sous vide users here.? I just can't figure out what happened.
sorry for the long post.
runswithbeer

 

[TomKnollRFV]

I can hazard a guess that really Sous Vide is not meant for this, at all.

Part of the smoking causes the gradual stepping up in temperature, and Sous vide is much quicker then doing sausage in the smoker. This is what it sounds like happened, it went and fatted out right away because the temps were going up to quickly.

 

[runswithbeer]

hi, since I wrote that post, I have been thinking maybe I should have pulled it when it reached 151 instead of cooking it an hour more.
I wanted to try the sous vide thingy because I have a Cajun injector 2 door smoker that is basically junk. temp swings of 40 degrees is common. it takes a lot of babysitting to get a good product. I'm thinking instead of investing money in the sous vide, I should have got a better smoker. live and learn.
runswithbeer

 

[TomKnollRFV]

hi, since I wrote that post, I have been thinking maybe I should have pulled it when it reached 151 instead of cooking it an hour more.
I wanted to try the sous vide thingy because I have a Cajun injector 2 door smoker that is basically junk. temp swings of 40 degrees is common. it takes a lot of babysitting to get a good product. I'm thinking instead of investing money in the sous vide, I should have got a better smoker. live and learn.
runswithbeer

I just got a Sous Vide, but I'd never use it for some thing like drying/hot smoking sausage. Part of why it works is the moisture is drawn out.

Live and learn though..but hey, you just look at what Bearcarver is doing with Sousvide and I doubt you'll view it as a wasted expense :) Makes reheating pulled pork in them vaccum bags alot better. No drying out..tastes like it's the day of when you reheat it SV :)

 

[SonnyE]

"I used 4 lbs. of 80/20 Wally world ground chuck and 2lbs. of Wally's ground pork. I have used this mix for quite a long and never had any problems."

You're not in Wisconsin anymore ToTo.
What's different? My guess would be the source of the meat.
I don't trust Wally meat. Each time I ventured into Wally Meat, I was disappointed. The Son and DIL shop at Wally World and throw away more meat than they eat.
I've had better results with Sam's Club or Costco meats. (Even though our Sam's club is right across the road from Wally's, it has better meat.)
Your recipe is a proven thing. So what changed?
Your meat source.
That's what I think, anyway.

Sonny, Sits with Beer

 

[SmokinAl]

When I make hot dogs I usually only smoke them for 3-4 hours & finish them in a 165 degree water bath. I was thinking I would use my SV circulator to maintain that 165, but am afraid of screwing up the SV if the meat is not vac packed. So it would be a major PIA to vac pack up all those hot dogs just to finish them off.
Al

 

[crazymoon]

RWB, I can't help on the SV thing BUT IMHO the SS is still salvagable as a meat spread with cream cheese etc. for crackers?

 

[runswithbeer]

CM,
sounds like a plan, 7 lbs. of meat spread, invite the neighbor kids over to see the magic water machine that made it.
RWB

 

[daveomak]

at 136 degrees I pulled it out of the smoker.

You were almost done at 136 F... Did you read the sous vide tutorial by Doug Baldwin ????
http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Table_C.1

Or the USDA pasteurization tables... Once at 135, they say hold it there for 28 minutes and you are golden with a 5 D reduction of bacteria.... I hold it at 135 for 1.5-2 hours to get a further reduction of bacteria... No fat out... Great sausage...

 

[chopsaw]

CM,
sounds like a plan, 7 lbs. of meat spread, invite the neighbor kids over to see the magic water machine that made it.
RWB

Funny ,,, hey , but don't count it out yet . Look thru the stuff Dave posted .
I did the same thing as you with 10 lbs of German Bologna before I understood the time and temps , thanks to Dave . You're right , over doing it in sv is TOTAL separation of meat and fat / liquid .
I have used mine alot lately to do sausage . Time and temp for the thickness of the meat is key .

 

[runswithbeer]

thank you, daveomak,
I read douglas baldwin's tutorial, now my head is spinning a little.
are you saying the sausage in almost done at 136 degrees? I always took mine to 150 in the smoker. was I doing it wrong all those years? my smoker, which I brought 2 years ago at a closeout price is really bad on temp swings. if I set it at 120, it will go up to 160 before shutting off and down to 90 before turning back on. I always use my maverick temp. gauges when I smoke. it still takes a lot of baby sitting to do sausage. especially when finishing it. I have to turn it on and off many times when I am finishing sausage to prevent it from over cooking. that's why I thought the sous vide thing would be great for finishing the sausage.
So, are you saying if I smoke the sausage in my smoker to 135, put it the sous vide at 135 for 1.5 to 2 hours, it's good to go.? if that's right, that would be great. problem solved.
merry Christmas,
RWB

 

[daveomak]

You also can add the smoke to your liking.... Then vac bag and put in the sous vide.... Follow the guidelines for diameter of the stick... then look at the temp you want to take it to... 135F is good...
table 2.2... heating time.. 50mm is about a 2" stick.... 2" cylinder = 2 hours to get up to temp you have set....
table 5.1.... Pasteurization time for meats... 50mm-- 3 1/4 hours or longer is fine... that will reduce listeria by at least a million to one....
table 1.1 cooling time in an ice bath.... 50mm 1 1/2 hours.... to get to 41 F.....
Cooling time is very important as spores from the bacteria are not killed... They can multiply during the cool down period....


So to develop this fully.... I hope it makes sense..
Add smoke to any final temperature... probably in a smoker at 110-140 ish would be good.. If the stick only gets to 100 F, that is fine... Use cure#1 to prevent botulism growth... when you have enough smoke, vac bag and put in the sous vide at 135 ish or what ever you want the final temp... ~2 hours later it is up to that temp and bacteria are starting to die... During the pasteurization process, 3 1/4 + hours in the 135 ish bath they are still dying until they are all but dead... a million to one reduction is good... I put mine back in the sous vide with cold water and ice... turn the temp down to 33 ish so the heat doesn't come on... the circulator will cool the meat fast in ice water... 1 1/2 hours later, the stick temp should be below 42F.....
Have ice on hand....

 

[runswithbeer]

well, believe it or not I I finally got it, (almost) thank you daveomak. my last question is; my recipe I am using calls for 6 pounds of meat, so I use 6 tablespoons of Morton's tender quick. is this fine? I also can convert it to use cure #1 if need be.
It's always a good sign when you start out the new year with something good.
RWB

 

[chopsaw]

The one table spoon per pound measure is for whole muscle meat .
Ground meat amount is different , I believe it is 1 1/2 teaspoons per pound of ground meat .

 

[daveomak]

I don't use TQ.... I use cure#1... I can adjust the salt using cure#1... Using TQ, the salt will be close to 3%... I like about 1-3/4% salt...

 

[riclark]

DaveO, Curious as to whether you hang your sausage to bloom after SV and cold water bath or not?

 

[daveomak]

Ice.... Ice water.... Instant cooling.... or, cook it to eat it... on the grill or under the broiler... enough to heat it and give the casing a bit of char...
Being it is ground meat, it was FULL of bacteria when made... I don't want to get sick.. no friggin way... Food safety is #1 around here..

 

[riclark]

Ice.... Ice water.... Instant cooling.... or, cook it to eat it... on the grill or under the broiler... enough to heat it and give the casing a bit of char...
Being it is ground meat, it was FULL of bacteria when made... I don't want to get sick.. no friggin way... Food safety is #1 around here..

Sorry, Should have been more specific. I was asking about summer sausage with cure. I made a batch smoked at 130* for 3 hours and finished SV @140* for 4 hours and was curious if it needed to hang for a few hours after cold water bath.

Thanks,

Richie