Kiełbasa using venison

[archeryrob]

I am looking to expand my recipes into Kiełbasa and looking for advice. I want to make a garlic one and maybe a later black pepper one. I always worry about the smokehouse and pork and fat out.

1. Do I need the extra water?
2. Should I add NFDM? This recipe did not call for it, but I might think it might help bind that water and fat.
3. Thinking more garlic. Grew my own german hardnecks and got lots to use up. I love that stuff!
4. Looking at 26% fat content based on my calc. Is that good? More or less?
5. Deer is medium ground and pork will get same and then all very fine ground.

I worry about smoking due to fat out with pork. I'd like to cook to 140 - 145 IT and quit. I remember Dave doing 135 IT and 2 hours as required on sausages. The recipe said smoke at 130° and finish with a poach in 160 water. I do the same for Braunschweiger but figured the smoke flavor might wash off in the poach and should I just poach it completely? Thinking of trying 6.5 pound as a test batch before my normal 20# runs.

Comments or cooking for recipe changes?

 

[SmokinEdge]

Recipe looks fine. I would hold out the water since your adding crushed ice. If you need water at the end to loosen up the farce add it about 1/4c at a time until the mix feels right. I would leave out the NFDM entirely. Just make sure you mix for good protein extraction. The fat % is good you could even go 30%.

I wouldn’t worry to much about fat out if you pay attention to smoker temps and not go over 170F I always poach finish all my sausage just for the benefit to casing texture. You do lose some surface smoke but the smoke should have penetrated inside the sausage after a couple hours in smoke so there is no washing that off.

 

[archeryrob]

What does the poach do to the casings? What difference smoked vs poach?

I would only put one type of water in and omit either, both, if needed.

 

[SmokinEdge]

What does the poach do to the casings? What difference smoked vs poach?

For me, smoke finish can leave the casing dry and chewy, not snappy and bite through. The poach finish leaves the texture of the casing bite through and a good snap bite.

I would only put one type of water in and omit either, both, if needed.

The shaved ice will be close to enough liquid but if you need more add 1/4c at a time not the 1c listed in the recipe.

 

[crazymoon]

AR, I make a lot of venison sausage going 65- 70% venny to 30-35% straight pork butt. Always comes out well as SE said just watch those temps!

 

[paulgeorge]

I am looking to expand my recipes into Kiełbasa and looking for advice. I want to make a garlic one and maybe a later black pepper one. I always worry about the smokehouse and pork and fat out.

1. Do I need the extra water?
2. Should I add NFDM? This recipe did not call for it, but I might think it might help bind that water and fat.
3. Thinking more garlic. Grew my own german hardnecks and got lots to use up. I love that stuff!
4. Looking at 26% fat content based on my calc. Is that good? More or less?
5. Deer is medium ground and pork will get same and then all very fine ground.

I worry about smoking due to fat out with pork. I'd like to cook to 140 - 145 IT and quit. I remember Dave doing 135 IT and 2 hours as required on sausages. The recipe said smoke at 130° and finish with a poach in 160 water. I do the same for Braunschweiger but figured the smoke flavor might wash off in the poach and should I just poach it completely? Thinking of trying 6.5 pound as a test batch before my normal 20# runs.

Comments or cooking for recipe changes?

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I've been using that after my first goof. The receipe called for pork butt but the loin was on sale and I wanted to quality not fat. Boy was I wrong. Did I just admit that? My wife better not read this. Ps. by the way Happy Birthday

 

[chopsaw]

What difference smoked vs poach?

Long hang times in the smoker leads to tough casings .
I've started smoking for a couple hours , then bump the temps to " Cook " to finish temp .
I also have been smoking for 2 or 3 hours , pulling the sausage , cooling down , then freeze .
Finish cooking when ready to eat . That a good result for me .
Chances are you're poaching or grilling for service anyway .

Marianski Polish Hot smoked is a good one . I know you have one , but just an option if interested . I up the garlic and black pepper .

I use NFDM , but not at the recommended rate . I add the seasoning to the grind and mix . That way I get an idea of how it's going to bind , and how much water and NFDM i need . Then I add water and the milk powder a little at a time and mix . I stop when it comes together / gets sticky .
These are all pork .

 

[archeryrob]

So I got the stuff for 10# today and will probably grind it. I am thinking possible little water and no NFDM? I am going to mix in the lem 25# mixer with the #12 driving it. Venison bacon has it but other stuff has not. My Daughter got on some diet kick these influencers promote and made herself lactose intolerant now. So trying to avoid it if I can.

I am thinking smoke house for 3 hours at 110 - 130 at most and maybe an IT of 100 - 110 and then into the steamer and boil with water up to 160 and cut off until IT is 140 for 10 minutes. Then cool and freezer bound.

 

[crazymoon]

AR, IMHO , you don't need the mixer for 10 #, buy yourself a food grade 5 gallon bucket and some powder free nitrile gloves and mix it up. NFDM is not needed in any sausage if the fat /meat ratio is right . No opinion on the boil part as I SV anything that doesn't finish in the smoker.

 

[archeryrob]

I did the 10# and added 1 Cup of water and a bit tacky , another cup a bit more. After 5 minutes it didn't look much better. Added 1/2 cup NFDM and started tacking up better. Left it mix 15 minutes while washing stuff up and it got good and tacky. I like the mixer but it seemed like 10# didn't fill it properly to mix and needed more time than usual.

Used 40 grams of fresh garlic I grew last year. Was two smaller clove clumps. I just threw them in with them meat and I pinched some ground meat and couldn't find anything so it ground up well.

 

[JckDanls 07]

HMMMM... Let me get this straight... you put 2+ cups of water in 10lbs of meat ?? And then let it mix in a mixer for a total of 20 minutes or more ??

 

[archeryrob]

Pretty sure that is what I said. It was clumping for the beginning and not mixing. Half way through I added the NFDM and it started tacking and mixing better and extracting which it was not doing before.

 

[JckDanls 07]

Pretty sure that is what I said

Excuse me for trying to understand... I'll leave it there...

 

[SmokinEdge]

I did the 10# and added 1 Cup of water and a bit tacky , another cup a bit more. After 5 minutes it didn't look much better. Added 1/2 cup NFDM and started tacking up better. Left it mix 15 minutes while washing stuff up and it got good and tacky. I like the mixer but it seemed like 10# didn't fill it properly to mix and needed more time than usual.

Used 40 grams of fresh garlic I grew last year. Was two smaller clove clumps. I just threw them in with them meat and I pinched some ground meat and couldn't find anything so it ground up well.

So you used 1 cup water in 10# mix? That’s right in there.

As for the mixer, I used one a few times. It’s been boxed up and stored since. But one thing important about mechanical mixers is that they need to stop and mix in the opposite direction every couple minutes. Some grinders have a reverse switch but most don’t. They don’t mix that well always going the same direction.

 

[chopsaw]

Fast path to dry sausage is to much water / liquid .
Over mixing is next . That's all a sign of something is not right .
If it doesn't want to come together your lean to fat / salt percentage is off in my opinion .

Some people are trying to help you . Post 11 was experienced concern .

 

[JckDanls 07]

so you used 1 cup water in 10# mix? That’s right in there.

No...

1 Cup of water and a bit tacky , another cup a bit more.

 

[SmokinEdge]

No...

I see that now. Yes, to much water and to fast.

 

[archeryrob]

Well, it is what is now and I can revise making it next time.

The pork I got was leaner than I wanted and mostly meat, so that lowered the fat content. I normally get a fatty pork shoulder from the butcher but didn't ride all the way to that one and got some pork from the super market Which looked fatty on one side, but was thin. Original intent was 30% fat and this might be 22%.

The LEM mixer can go two directions but the #12 only spins one way. I'd have t clamp it down and spin it by hand to change directions. I did not seem to be getting any protein extraction until after the second cup of water and even more with the 1/2 cup up NFDM started making it sticky. How does over mixing hurt it? What do you mean too fast? Or did you mean too long?

 

[archeryrob]

Actually it worked out fine. Texture could have been extracted better but I think with more fat it would. It bound and tasted good. I did the smoking for 3 hours and ran the smoke house about 120 and links got about 111 IT. Then out to the cajun steamer and submerged them and topped with a plate and raise water to 160 and turned it off. They got to 145 and by the time the 4 minute timer went off they were 152 and ran the hose in the pot until they dropped to 100 degrees.

I use the recipe above with no ice, added the NFDM explained and used 40 grams of fresh garlic ground with the meat. That was good but strong for people not liking a lot of garlic. I could cut down the garlic, but I think it needs more pepper. Still way better than the plain Kielbasa they sell in the stores.

For me, smoke finish can leave the casing dry and chewy, not snappy and bite through. The poach finish leaves the texture of the casing bite through and a good snap bite.

Thanks for this advice, it worked rather well.