# Need Help Troubleshooting Mealy Sausage



## thirdeye (Mar 30, 2020)

Guys, A newer sausage-maker reached out to me about a month ago with some questions because he is having issues with his homemade fresh sausage, he has not gotten into smoked sausage yet.  In a nutshell, his product turns out dry and mealy and lacks flavor.  He's using ground pork butt with no additional fat, and using a Kitchen Aid grinder.  The pork is pre-chilled cubes  before grinding, and the meat is kept cold through stuffing.  I noticed in our email of today he mentioned grinding, seasoning and* immediately stuffing* (which I don't do until the next day)  into hog casings., so this could be a factor as often my sausage absorbs all the liquid and I wet it again before stuffing.  I keep my gut really wet too adding still more water.  The worst thing is, this happens for all the recipes he has tried.  The photos above were the most recent batch, the recipe is Bigwheel's Texas Hot Links  ( a 7# recipe calls for a whole bottle of beer) which I've made for years with great results.

I have visited with him about not over-working the meat,  the importance of an icy liquid, how fresh ingredients can add moisture, not ramping up the pit temp too fast or to high so the fats and proteins don't break (but again this issue is happening on both grilled links and links that are simmered and grill finished.  My last discussion was about binders like powdered milk, but he has not tried that yet.  I'm kind of stumped and out of suggestions.  We have not visited about adding more fatty trim, but pork butt has been very adequate for me since I stopped adding trim at least 20 years ago (however some store bought links can be 40%+ fat).  Can anyone offer some help here?


----------



## DanMcG (Mar 30, 2020)

Does his butt's have enough fat? Some places trim them pretty tight and need added fat. I've run into that from time to time. 
 I grind, mix and stuff all the time, but is he mixing long enough to develop a good bind? It looks like he's not. Also is he using proven recipes?
Sorry but just a few thoughts rambling thru my head at the moment.


----------



## smokeymose (Mar 30, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> Guys, A newer sausage-maker reached out to me about a month ago with some questions because he is having issues with his homemade fresh sausage, he has not gotten into smoked sausage yet.  In a nutshell, his product turns out dry and mealy and lacks flavor.  He's using ground pork butt with no additional fat, and using a Kitchen Aid grinder.  The pork is pre-chilled cubes  before grinding, and the meat is kept cold through stuffing.  I noticed in our email of today he mentioned grinding, seasoning and* immediately stuffing* (which I don't do until the next day)  into hog casings., so this could be a factor as often my sausage absorbs all the liquid and I wet it again before stuffing.  I keep my gut really wet too adding still more water.  The worst thing is, this happens for all the recipes he has tried.  The photos above were the most recent batch, the recipe is Bigwheel's Texas Hot Links  ( a 7# recipe calls for a whole bottle of beer) which I've made for years with great results.
> 
> I have visited with him about not over-working the meat,  the importance of an icy liquid, how fresh ingredients can add moisture, not ramping up the pit temp too fast or to high so the fats and proteins don't break (but again this issue is happening on both grilled links and links that are simmered and grill finished.  My last discussion was about binders like powdered milk, but he has not tried that yet.  I'm kind of stumped and out of suggestions.  We have not visited about adding more fatty trim, but pork butt has been very adequate for me since I stopped adding trim at least 20 years ago (however some store bought links can be 40%+ fat).  Can anyone offer some help here?


At first sight it looks to me like it needs a finer grind and it wasn't mixed enough.
Like you I have never had a problem with fat content of a butt and I also I let my mix set overnight before stuffing. Whether it's smoked or not wouldn't make a difference in the texture.
A binder with some water probably wouldn't hurt.
Not sure what you mean about over working the meat....
Nice links, though!


----------



## Sowsage (Mar 30, 2020)

I'm with the others on this. Neds to mix more/longer to get a good bind. Should be sticky sticky sticky and hard to clean off your hands. Another thing to try would be using two different grinding plates. Maybe 1/4 of the pork through a fine plate and the other 3/4 through a medium plate. He can play around with the ratios to get the desired texture.


----------



## chopsaw (Mar 30, 2020)

Couple things come to mind for me , 
Percentage of salt in his recipe . 
Is he grinding the whole butt , then taking the weight he needs from  the whole grind ? 
( so it stays around 80 / 20 ) 
To much liquid can have that effect .


----------



## Polka (Mar 30, 2020)

It appears to be not enough mixing, not enough fat


----------



## daveomak (Mar 30, 2020)

You've gotta mix the meat to get the proteins to do what ever it is they do to keep the meat moist..  
MIX-MIX-and MIX some more....   When it sticks to your hands like a girl that thinks you got money, you're golden...


----------



## sawhorseray (Mar 30, 2020)

Polka said:


> It appears to be not enough mixing, not enough fat




My thoughts exactly. RAY


----------



## DanMcG (Mar 31, 2020)

The first pic of the fresh links look a little on the lean side.
And I know ya said it was kept cold, but could the fat be smearing in the small KA grinder.


----------



## Steve H (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm with the lean and not mixed long enough camp. The first batch I did looked exactly the same.


----------



## Polka (Mar 31, 2020)

looks like many of us have "been there, done that," eh?


----------



## Steve H (Mar 31, 2020)

Oh yeah. I've had a cook or two hit the trash.  The great learning curve!


----------



## BGKYSmoker (Mar 31, 2020)

Too much heat in the sausage-making or cooking process can be the cause. Sausage that gets too warm too quick will “break,” meaning the fat and protein will separate from each other when cooked, and you'll get a *mealy* or crumbly texture to your cooked sausage.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Mar 31, 2020)

Is there such a thing as Overworked Sausage?Like Dave showed, the meat has to look like a wet Dough. Grind size seems to have little to do with the bind. My 15 pound batches of Krajana Kielbasa gets a single grind through a 1/2" plate then gets mixed until my arm gives out. Broiled or Boiled, the chunky meat sticks together...JJ


----------



## zwiller (Mar 31, 2020)

I vote not mixed.

Semi OT.  Anyone know it if adding STPP and another grind could work instead of all the arm work?


----------



## thirdeye (Mar 31, 2020)

Guys, thanks for all the responses.  I'm going to field the replies and suggest that my online friend join this wonderful forum.



DanMcG said:


> Does his butt's have enough fat? Some places trim them pretty tight and need added fat. I've run into that from time to time.
> I grind, mix and stuff all the time, but is he mixing long enough to develop a good bind? It looks like he's not. Also is he using proven recipes?
> Sorry but just a few thoughts rambling thru my head at the moment.


Dan, good point about an over-trimmed butt.  I think I mentioned to remove the inter-muscular slimy fat or any noticeable tendons when prepping the meat.  I can't answer as to the proper mixing.  As far as I know he is using some proven recipes, but eventually wants to develop some on his own.  I believe I mentioned the link to the Marianski brothers chart of recommended amounts. 



smokeymose said:


> At first sight it looks to me like it needs a finer grind and it wasn't mixed enough.
> Like you I have never had a problem with fat content of a butt and I also I let my mix set overnight before stuffing. Whether it's smoked or not wouldn't make a difference in the texture.
> A binder with some water probably wouldn't hurt.
> Not sure what you mean about over working the meat....
> Nice links, though!


I grind with the same KA grinder, and the large plates are not as coarse as larger grinders. I use the coarse grind for most sausage, and the fine plate for my hot dogs.   By over working I meant grinding more than is needed or mixing too much.  I've seen some people with the comb style "mixers" that go beyond the consistency in the photo Dave posted.   



Sowsage said:


> I'm with the others on this. Neds to mix more/longer to get a good bind. Should be sticky sticky sticky and hard to clean off your hands. Another thing to try would be using two different grinding plates. Maybe 1/4 of the pork through a fine plate and the other 3/4 through a medium plate. He can play around with the ratios to get the desired texture.


Good tip on experimenting with the different grinds.  It's really hard to describe the proper texture.  My neighbor and his wife got two big elk last year, and the cut order got mixed up resulting in 150 *additional pounds *of ground meat so we made 60 pounds (and 3 recipes) of sausage.  I let them select recipes, I did the measuring,  I put my buddy in charge of mixing, and his wife was in charge of packaging.  He quickly understood the benefit of wearing knit gloves under the nitrile gloves because I kept saying "nope, not mixed well enough" as I added more icy water. 



chopsaw said:


> Couple things come to mind for me ,
> Percentage of salt in his recipe .
> Is he grinding the whole butt , then taking the weight he needs from  the whole grind ?
> ( so it stays around 80 / 20 )
> To much liquid can have that effect .


I don't think he is working with percentages yet.



daveomak said:


> You've gotta mix the meat to get the proteins to do what ever it is they do to keep the meat moist..
> MIX-MIX-and MIX some more....   When it sticks to your hands like a girl that thinks you got money, you're golden...
> 
> 
> ...


Dave, out of the hundred or so sausage photos, I don't have a hands-on mixing photo.  Until now.     Would it be okay to use this, with credit of course?



DanMcG said:


> The first pic of the fresh links look a little on the lean side.
> And I know ya said it was kept cold, but could the fat be smearing in the small KA grinder.








I don't think I shared my smear collage with him, but I use the same grinder and even though the rate is slower than many   (1# per minute), it does a good job. 



chef jimmyj said:


> Is there such a thing as Overworked Sausage? Like Dave showed, the meat has to look like a wet Dough. Grind size seems to have little to do with the bind. My 15 pound batches of Krajana Kielbasa gets a single grind through a 1/2" plate then gets mixed until my arm gives out. Broiled or Boiled, the chunky meat sticks together...JJ


I've seen it more when people do a double grind with small plates, or if they get western with a comb style hand-crank  unit.


----------



## pmorton62 (Apr 1, 2020)

If he is grinding right into the casing, he is not working the meat at all.  Grinding into casings will not work, though grinder companies all say it can be done.


----------



## zwiller (Apr 1, 2020)

Thanks for the smearing "collage"   Seriously, now I know what it looks like.


----------



## Bigpappa1 (Apr 1, 2020)

Hello All!

I am the OP's bright-eyed Padawan. First of all, HUGE shout out to Thirdeye for all the help. He has really gone out of his way to keep giving me pointers, even though it's got to seem like he's talking to a brick wall at time. Quick background: I've been smoking for roughly 10 years or so. I use a WSM and I know my way around basic and advanced techniques for general smoking. I tried my hand at sausage making a few years ago and always came away with disappointing results. Often times the patty wouldn't be too bad, but when I stuffed everything it just came out like garbage, and I mean batch-after-batch. I eventually just gave up as I was spending more money to make crappy product than I would if I just bought sausages that I actually enjoyed from the store. As I continue in my craft, I found myself wanting more variety than the brats that I find in my region (Midwest). I love 'em, but I know there's more out there. So, I pinged up some folks over at another forum and TE dropped in to help me out. Thus, the bug hath bit me again.

I have posted on this site a few times before and I'm a regular lurker. I just read through you guys' responses, and I am incredibly grateful for peoples' insights. I don't want to get too cocky, but it sounds really simple: I didn't mix enough. I just dropped TE a message explaining that I had gotten concerned about overmixing after watching a video from Walton's on YouTube. They have a TON of sausage making videos that are really well done. In this one in particular, the guy is making fresh bratwurst. Around the three minute mark, he cautions against over-mixing. He does have another video where he is making something like a smoked Polish and does say that you want to mix until it's good and sticky. For some reason I equated the "sticky mixing" with fine ground sausages that are smoked. I was shooting for a coarser grind, which is more to my liking, and aiming to just keep it fresh. That said, I may well find myself smoking sausage this weekend...

Anyhow, here is the link video that I mention. As I asked TE: am I missing something? Did I just misinterpret him? These guys make a ton of sausage, so I've got to believe he isn't just totally off the mark, but maybe he is. 



Again, thank you all so much. It will be both disappointing and hilarious if a single, simple, thing like mixing enough has been the culprit all along...


----------



## DanMcG (Apr 1, 2020)

Hey Bigpappa, I Have no clue why the kid would say don't develop a good bind, But I'd say he's wrong. that's  just my opinion


----------



## DanMcG (Apr 1, 2020)

.


----------



## thirdeye (Apr 1, 2020)

Bigpoppa, glad you're back and found this thread.   Not only did the Walton's guy not mix well enough, he didn't add any icy water.  I wonder if the video just showed how to mix the hi-temp cheese in, and they did not film the actual hand mixing, because his meat looks too dry to even stuff. 

And back to your other question about the KA grinder, here is mine in use, when the meat is cold the grinder does not strain at all.  Just making you were not going with a full speed grind.  VIDEO


----------



## daveomak (Apr 1, 2020)

Guys, thanks for all the responses.  I'm going to field the replies and suggest that my online friend join this wonderful forum.

Dave, out of the hundred or so sausage photos, I don't have a hands-on mixing photo.  Until now.     Would it be okay to use this, with credit of course?

[/QUOTE]
 Yep, no problem....  That meat, by the way, was ground once through a medium plate, and mixed in a hand crank meat mixer..


----------



## thirdeye (Apr 1, 2020)

daveomak said:


> Guys, thanks for all the responses.  I'm going to field the replies and suggest that my online friend join this wonderful forum.
> 
> Dave, out of the hundred or so sausage photos, I don't have a hands-on mixing photo.  Until now.     Would it be okay to use this, with credit of course?


Yep, no problem....  That meat, by the way, was ground once through a medium plate, and mixed in a hand crank meat mixer..
[/QUOTE]
Thank you Sir.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Apr 1, 2020)

This guy is talking about Two different types of sausage, Brats and Mex Chorizo and giving the Chorizo directions for making Brats. Brats are typically eaten in the casing and a good bind provides the smooth, meaty Texture. In comparison, Mex Chorizo is typically un-cased and Crumbled to make most recipes. Over mixing Chorizo makes it difficult to break up into uniform crumbles when cooked. This video is very misleading, giving the directions for mixing Orange Chorizo, when he is making Apple Brats...JJ


----------



## Bigpappa1 (Apr 2, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> Bigpoppa, glad you're back and found this thread.   Not only did the Walton's guy not mix well enough, he didn't add any icy water.  I wonder if the video just showed how to mix the hi-temp cheese in, and they did not film the actual hand mixing, because his meat looks too dry to even stuff.
> 
> And back to your other question about the KA grinder, here is mine in use, when the meat is cold the grinder does not strain at all.  Just making you were not going with a full speed grind.  VIDEO



TE, thanks for the welcome! I just watched your video, and it looks like you do it in a way that might save me some time. I do use the 4 setting, but I thought I had to cut the pork into 1" chunks. It looks like you are using strips which seems like it would be a little less time consuming. Also I totally agree: keeping that meat semi-frozen really helps the grinder. I need to get some cotton liners...

I'm also glad you weighed in on that video. These guys seem really knowledgeable so I wonder what went wrong there. Not that it really matters, just my curious mind...


----------



## Bigpappa1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Thank you all again for the replies. It sounds like I need to get my hands up into it. I have another butt in the freezer right now that's waiting to be turnt up. I wonder if I take it on again this weekend and shoot for a brat recipe, something a bit more familiar.


----------



## thirdeye (Apr 2, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> TE, thanks for the welcome! I just watched your video, and it looks like you do it in a way that might save me some time. I do use the 4 setting, but I thought I had to cut the pork into 1" chunks. It looks like you are using strips which seems like it would be a little less time consuming. Also I totally agree: keeping that meat semi-frozen really helps the grinder. I need to get some cotton liners...
> 
> I'm also glad you weighed in on that video. These guys seem really knowledgeable so I wonder what went wrong there. Not that it really matters, just my curious mind...


Once the auger grabs the end of a strip of meat, it does most of the work so you aren't really using much force on the plunger.  

There are some great videos out there, on all subjects, but one of my pet peeves on cooking videos is watching people cross contaminate during the video.  Like handling chicken, then grabbing a bottle or two of rub, maybe adjusting the camera, then touching the handle on the refrigerator, and then wiping their hands on a dish towel.


----------



## Bigpappa1 (Apr 3, 2020)

Okay, I've got another question...maybe two...

I'm a little concerned that I won't have enough fat for my liking. Any tips on how to add fat to the whole mix? Would olive oil be a good option? I don't have much for a full-on butcher around here, though I suppose the meat counter at my grocer might have some, they do a lot of sausage making and stuff there on their own. I'm concerned just because when TE and I were talking he mentioned that Johnsonville and another brand I like are probably running higher on the fat end. I'm using that as a guideline for what I like, so I wonder if my pork butt will be a bit lean. Granted, I've probably never had lean sausage that was done properly, so maybe I'd like it. Also, I have a bunch of beef fat I saved from a brisket I smoked last weekend, but I have been told to avoid beef fat. Any thoughts?

Second question: how big of a batch would you recommend making? My issue is that I have a 6.5 or so lbs. butt thawing right now. Once it is thawed I don't really want to freeze it again, so I feel kind of stuck making it all and rolling along. That said, since I am not cold smoking, I am concerned about making it all and THEN freezing it still. I will have way more than I'll know what to do with. I don't suppose you guys have any thoughts on that? I'm just trying to figure out an efficient way to make it all without ruining anything or creating waste.

Thanks again everyone, you guys are the best!

Zach


----------



## thirdeye (Apr 3, 2020)

Zach, I think if you add lard to sausage, you'll have a big mess on your hands.  Call the markets that do make sausage and ask about "pork trim for sausage".  If you are lucky, because they use it too, they might set some aside for you, and if you are really lucky they might grind it for you.  If we assume a pork butt is 25% to 30% fat you can experiment with adding more.  If there is processor in town that butchers locally raised hogs, call them and ask about "fatback", which is the hard fat from the back of a hog. It's in solid pieces and easy to work with.

If I'm making bulk sausage, I'll make as little as a pound.  When stuffing I make 5# minimum because I have a 5# barrel on my stuffer.  However.... with almost every pork butt I buy for sausage, I have a technique you may find interesting.  On full sized butts (7 to 10 pounds), there is a muscle group called the "money muscle".  Right next door is another group of muscles called the "tubes". They are the best muscles on the entire butt. So,  I remove that end of the pork butt, (it's about as big around as your wrist) and trim it up and smoke it until it's very tender but still sliceable,  this is about 190° internal.   The rest of the butt gets ground for sausage.  
Here is where the money muscle is found, it has stripes of fat running through it. It is on the end opposite the blade bone.






Money muscle group trimmed up and shaped for even cooking.  Notice the stripes of fat?





These were smoked for 4 or 5 hours, then wrapped for 1.5 or 2 hours.





And rested in a hot box for an hour or more, the slices are fork tender.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Apr 3, 2020)

Talk to the Butcher. If they make sausage, they are likely using meat, trim and fat from other processes. They should be able to sell you some fat. Veg Oil is not a good choice. You can always buy another Butt, steal the Fat Cap, then freeze the remainder for Pulled Pork or other dishes where you would trim the fat off anyway.
Don't use Brisket Fat. There are folks here that won't use Brisket fat in BEEF sausage. Claims that it makes a greasy sausage.

There is nothing wrong with freezing sausage made from  previously frozen meat. Safety and quality issues can arise from multiple thaw and freezing meat. Ex...Thaw 6 lb Butt, make 2Lbs of Sausage, Re-freeze and repeat 2 more times to make small batches of sausage.
Make the whole batch and freeze portions. It's A LOT of work to setup, grind, stuff and clean-up,  after making sausage. No way you want to play with tiny batches...JJ


----------



## fullborebbq (Apr 4, 2020)

I started out with a small grinder from Amazon . It did a fine job for small batches . As I progressed my business I purchased a LEM Big bite grinder and it made quick work of large quantities of meat. I say all this because recently I purchased an all steel grinder for my KA Professional 5 plus series mixer for small batches for home use. To say the KA grinders meat output quality was WAY below the LEM or the Amazon grinder is an understatement! There is just NO comparison.


----------



## Bigpappa1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Well I ground and stuffed last night. I can’t say it strongly enough: the kitchen aid stuffer is pure garbage. That said, I think did it right this time. I mixed until I could take a good hand full of meat, hold my hand out and it wouldn’t fall off. Nice and tacky. I made a couple varieties: brats, hot links, and an experimental. The brat is just okay on the test patty, but maybe the flavors will be different after a night in the fridge. The hot links test patty seemed really good. As for my little experiment, it actually tasted good, but the 2% salt was too much. Maybe that will mellow, but I doubt it.  Smoking the hot links right now.

by the way...I noticed that the Morton’s cure says one Tbsp per pound, yet the hot links recipe, which calls for 7 pounds of meat is much less. Anything to that?


----------



## chopsaw (Apr 5, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> ..I noticed that the Morton’s cure says one Tbsp per pound,


That amount is for whole muscle meat . 
The amount for ground meat is 1 1/2 tsp per pound .


----------



## DanMcG (Apr 5, 2020)

Well we got to know, was it dry and mealy?


----------



## thirdeye (Apr 5, 2020)

Okay, test frying some samples allows you to adjust seasonings.  So you could have jacked up the spices in the brat recipe if you thought it was just OK.  As far as the hot link, you cant undo salt (but at least you know what is too salty), but you could add a little sugar.  I would have let it ride as salt sometimes will settle down.  If you are using Bigwheels Hot Link recipe, the Tender Quick is only in it to give it a pink color.... if you notice his instructions call for grilling the hot links.   When I do smoke this recipe I either bump the cure to the correct amount, or hot smoke closer to 200° and keep my time line less than 4 hours, but you risk breaking (fatting out) the fats and proteins.  The last option is a hot water finish, but that is a whole different technique.  Here is an example of Bigwheels recipe (with the all pork option)  that was smoked, so I had added cure, and only took the internal to 155°.  I like making rings when I smoke sausage.


----------



## Bigpappa1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Ohhhhhhh the plot thickens...well one thing is certain about this whole adventure: I’m learning things. So I missed the part about the hot links being grilled.  I have been slow smoking them for about four hours now (that’s a whole different story) and I JUST pulled them off and put them on the grill. Internal is 125 at the moment, so I guess we will just have to see.

TE, the wait and see approach is kind of what I had in mind for the whole bit. I wasn’t certain about the brats, but I wanted to let them rest a night in the casing and see if that did anything before I changed them. Plus I still have to cook them in beer. Same with the salt, I wondered if it might settle down over night. I suppose I will just have to wait and see. I won’tleave you guys hanging, as soon as I have results you’ll know. In the meantime my therapy is in the top right corner...


----------



## thirdeye (Apr 5, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> So I missed the part about the hot links being grilled


Well, I actually mis-spoke.  Bigwheel's instructions said:
"Smoke or slow grill till they are done. Wrap in a piece of bread and slap on the mustard heavy. Wash it down with ice cold beer."


----------



## fullborebbq (Apr 5, 2020)

When first making Hot links I did the same patty test. That was uninspiring to say the least, BUT after smoking to IT of 152....OMG what a difference in taste!!!!!! I now know why they are a religion in Texas.


----------



## Bigpappa1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Gentlemen, I give you; Excalibur...





That’s the hot links. I’m just going to tell you like it is: it was amazing. It was EXACLTY what I wanted to make in a smoked sausage to have with my everyday bbq. I might even add cheese next time. Onto the bratwurst...






I was actually surprised with this one. I didn’t think I was going to like it but I really did. It’s not the brat that I would put on a bun, but it was great with mustard and onion. I bet it would be great with Sauerkraut as well.
It only took about six years to land a decent batch, but I finally managed it. Thanks In HUGE part to you all, especially TE. I’m dead serious, I would have just been hacking at it until I screwed up enough to throw my hands in the air again if TE hadn’t been so patient. You have all been a part of the greatest tradition ever: the passing on of knowledge, and I couldn’t be more grateful. If this sounds like a graduation speech, it’s because I can’t tell you how many disappointing batches of sausage I have made without understanding why. Even after you all talked about mixing enough, I went looking at more videos of fresh sausage making and NObody mentions that part. I don’t get why, it’s clearly a lynchpin issue.

In any case thank you all again. I’m so glad it worked!

Zach










Quick edit: the pan with four sausages had two Johnsonville Brats in it. I cooked them as a back up in case mine sucked. Again; I would still prefer the Johnsonville on a bun, but for a fork-and-cut brat with kraut or something, that one was on point.


----------



## fullborebbq (Apr 6, 2020)

One of my most popular sausages are Brats with cheddar and Jalapenos!
Go for it!!!!


----------



## DanMcG (Apr 6, 2020)

Congrats, and welcome to your next obsession.


----------



## kilroy (Apr 6, 2020)

Has anybody ever used a KA mixer with a bread hook to mix their sausage mix, or would it not work good? I recently purchased a grinder for my KA and would like to try my luck at some sausage or slim jim style sticks. Thanks.

Kilroy


----------



## thirdeye (Apr 6, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> It only took about six years to land a decent batch, but I finally managed it.



There you go, it's a good feeling when everything comes together.   The color, texture and moistness look absolutely great.


----------



## Justanothermom (Oct 30, 2020)

DanMcG said:


> Does his butt's have enough fat? Some places trim them pretty tight and need added fat. I've run into that from time to time.
> I grind, mix and stuff all the time, but is he mixing long enough to develop a good bind? It looks like he's not. Also is he using proven recipes?
> Sorry but just a few thoughts rambling thru my head at the moment.


I just ran my first batch of sausage, kielbasa.  I'm an accomplished cook and jumped in with great confidence...  My product is mealy as heck, not suitable for a plate but tolerable for chili.  I'm using 100% beef at 70/30 ratio.  I built my own recipe which is light on salt for health reasons and does not have cure.  My best guess is my batch was too big (25#) and got too warm.  Is there a way to salvage the portion that is not yet stuffed?  Once the proteins have "broken" from the fat can that be reversed?


----------



## BGKYSmoker (Oct 30, 2020)

I been doing this for a long long time.
When the mix gets warm either from grinding or mixing and the fat smears you can end up with mealy mix. It just about impossible to save it even by adding more fat.

BUT

Dont use lard.
Lard is the end product of heating the back fat so is a purer form of fat, so has less physical integrity than fat. Using lard may not affect the taste of the sausage but would probably affect the texture.


----------



## thirdeye (Oct 30, 2020)

During grinding did you keep everything as cold as possible, even to the extreme of moving amounts of 5# of ground meat back into the refrigerator? Smearing can happen during grinding, during mixing or when stuffing.  Basically the fat does not emulsify with protein,  and the end result is exactly what you have... crumbly and dry sausage. 

So you have tried some of your cased sausage, but still have some un-stuffed sausage?  Have you done a test cook on a pattie of that?  You might be able to skip stuffing and package it in patties, in bulk or even make meatballs.


----------



## Justanothermom (Oct 30, 2020)

SFLsmkr1 said:


> I been doing this for a long long time.
> When the mix gets warm either from grinding or mixing and the fat smears you can end up with mealy mix. It just about impossible to save it even by adding more fat.
> 
> BUT
> ...


I used the trim off of a brisket and an inside sirloin, both from Costco.  I was wondering about the different types of fat which is something I haven't given much thought to before this.  Kind of common sense that you would want fat that has more tissue for integrity.  Which cuts of meat would give me this?  Where do I find the best kind of fat for sausage making?


----------



## BGKYSmoker (Oct 30, 2020)

Sometime beef fat trim can get rancid >>> (sometimes)
A fat cut in is normally pork butt and even pork back fat (the hard white fat) But if you cant use pork for personal reasons then use a good beef fat. Hard white fat from grass few beef is about the best. Dont use silverskin or any fatty membrane.

Whats your start temp when you make kielbasa.
Why i ask its a good practice to use cure 1. 

Here is some cure info. (
Modern cure will not kill you UNLESS You OVER CURE which can lead to nitrate poisoning)

CURES - Cures are used in sausage products for color and flavor development as well as retarding the development of bacteria in the low temperature environment of smoked meats. Salt and sugar both cure meat by osmosis. In addition to drawing the water from the food, they dehydrate and kill the bacteria that make food spoil. In general, though, use of the word "cure" refers to processing the meat with either sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate.   

The primary and most important reason to use cures is to prevent BOTULISM POISONING (Food poisoning). It is very important that any kind of meat or sausage that will be cooked and smoked at low temperature be cured. To trigger botulism poisoning, the requirements are quite simple - lack of oxygen, the presence of moisture, and temperatures in range of 40-140° F. When smoking meats, the heat and smoke eliminates the oxygen. The meats have moisture and are traditionally smoked and cooked in the low ranges of 90 to 185° F. As you can see, these are ideal conditions for food poisoning if you don't use cures. There are two types of commercially used cures. 

Prague Powder #1 
Also called Insta-Cure and Modern Cure. Cures are used to prevent meats from spoiling when being cooked or smoked at low temperatures (under 200 degrees F). This cure is 1 part sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 16 parts salt (93.75%) and are combined and crystallized to assure even distribution. As the meat temperate rises during processing, the sodium nitrite changes to nitric oxide and starts to ‘gas out’ at about 130 degrees F. After the smoking /cooking process is complete only about 10-20% of the original nitrite remains. As the product is stored and later reheated for consumption, the decline of nitrite continues. 4 ounces of Prague powder #1 is required to cure 100 lbs of meat. A more typical measurement for home use is 1 level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. Mix with cold water, then mix into meat like you would mix seasonings into meat. 

Prague Powder #2 
Used to dry-cure products. Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt. (1 oz. of sodium nitrite with .64 oz. of sodium nitrate to each lb. of salt.) It is primarily used in dry-curing Use with products that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration. This cure, which is sodium nitrate, acts like a time release, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide. This allows you to dry cure products that take much longer to cure.  A cure with sodium nitrite would dissipate too quickly.  Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat when mixing with meat. When using a cure in a brine solution, follow a recipe


----------



## daveomak (Oct 31, 2020)




----------

