# Water Pan Question



## tbeacham (Dec 22, 2014)

Using a MES 30".  When using the water pan to add moisture, the drippings will put a fat layer on top of the water. 

Will this keep the water from evaporating, and if so, what do others do to deal with this?  I know how to separate the drippings from the fat afterwards (refrigerator method), but not while smoking.


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## jsdspif (Dec 22, 2014)

I think others will chime in , but I Think the popular concensus is it doesn't really add moisture , it's more of a heat sink for a more stabilized temperature . So many people use sand in theirs . I very seldom add liquid to my pan , I just put some foil in it so I don't have to wash it . For a while I had some square tiles with holes that they sell for gas grills (instead of lava rock or whatever) but occasionally grease liquid would get under the foil and then they got all messy so after a while I got rid of them . I can't say I've ever noted any difference with water in the pan or no water .


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## tropics (Dec 22, 2014)

tbeacham said:


> Using a MES 30".  When using the water pan to add moisture, the drippings will put a fat layer on top of the water.
> 
> Will this keep the water from evaporating, and if so, what do others do to deal with this?  I know how to separate the drippings from the fat afterwards (refrigerator method), but not while smoking.


If you want to collect the juices from your meat, place them on a rack with a drip pan under it. Adding water will create more condensation, fill the water pan with sand and cover with foil.


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## daricksta (Dec 23, 2014)

Here's another vote for keeping the water pan empty but foiling it over to prevent grease from dripping into it. I filled it with clean playground sand a couple of times. I stopped doing that the time I wheeled my MES 30 (bungee corded to a small hand truck) from my backyard to my garage. The next time I wheeled it out and opened it, there was a large pile of sand all along the back wall, despite the water pan having been foiled over. Took about 40 minutes or so to sweep it all out since much of the sand had absorbed grease from the floor of the smoker. No more sand-filled water pan for me. I also saw filling it with sand made absolutely no difference as far as temperature regulation was concerned. It was a bust as a heat sink.


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## tbeacham (Dec 23, 2014)

I want to continue using the water pan to add moisture (and also collect the non-fat drippings for use later), but I am concerned that the fat in the drippings will cause an oil slick on top of the water and keep it from evaporating.  Should I use two separate pans, one for the water and one above it for the drippings?


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## chase1300 (Dec 24, 2014)

I may be missing something here...I am new to the MES30  (in my case). But  I have learned that the water pan serves no "practical" purpose.   I hear people talk about filling with sand  and covering with foil. Or just putting it in covered in foil.   Or putting rocks in it. My seemingly stupid question is why have it in there at all. Why not just leave it out of the smoker all together and just use a disposable foil pan to catch the drippings and  and throw  it out after use.  


Sorry to hijack your thread.


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## tropics (Dec 24, 2014)

I don't remember where my drip pan is LOL


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## daveomak (Dec 24, 2014)

tbeacham said:


> *I want to continue using the water pan to add moisture *(and also collect the non-fat drippings for use later), but I am concerned that the fat in the drippings will cause an oil slick on top of the water and keep it from evaporating.  Should I use two separate pans, one for the water and one above it for the drippings?



Your thinking is off a bit...  You can't force water into the meat from humidity...   Remove the water, form a bark on the meat that will hold in the moisture....   Once the bark has formed, there will be very little dripping from it....


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## parrot-head (Dec 24, 2014)

Chase1300 said:


> I may be missing something here...I am new to the MES30 (in my case). But I have learned that the water pan serves no "practical" purpose. I hear people talk about filling with sand and covering with foil. Or just putting it in covered in foil. Or putting rocks in it. My seemingly stupid question is why have it in there at all. Why not just leave it out of the smoker all together and just use a disposable foil pan to catch the drippings and and throw it out after use.
> 
> 
> Sorry to hijack your thread.


The idea is for the sand to act as a heat sink to help retain and regulate the temperature


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## mr t 59874 (Dec 24, 2014)

You can do as Dave suggest, but you will still have water evaporating from your water pan. Think of when you make stock,  there is a layer of fat on top of your pot, but you still have steam vaporizing do to the water breaking the surface.

  The extra moisture in water pan smokers will cause the smoke to attach itself to the product more readily than a dry smoker would, so be careful not to oversmoke your product.

Have fun smoking and keep good notes.

Tom


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## daricksta (Dec 24, 2014)

tbeacham said:


> I want to continue using the water pan to add moisture (and also collect the non-fat drippings for use later), but I am concerned that the fat in the drippings will cause an oil slick on top of the water and keep it from evaporating.  Should I use two separate pans, one for the water and one above it for the drippings?


Just line the water pan with aluminum foil. I recommend putting water in the water pan because, from my experience, meat doesn't try out in the MES unless it's overcooked by a couple of hours. Having a good therm which accurately reports the internal temp will prevent that. I leave the water pan empty and foil over the top to catch the drippings.

Anyway, if you prefer to use water in the water pan, the dripping will fall into it which is OK. When the water emits steam it will be infused with vaporized liquids from the drippings and can help further flavor the meat.

I've heard that a moist meat surface absorbs smoke better than a dry surface but I've had no problems getting the smoky flavors I want while keeping the water pan empty. On the contrary, I have to watch out for oversmoking.


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## daricksta (Dec 24, 2014)

I've been advised to keep the empty water pan inside the MES because it was designed to be operated that way. I guess it might act as a heat baffle or something. I found filling it with playground sand didn't work as a heat sink and it also created a huge mess when I moved my smoker. This is why I just foil it over and leave it empty.

When I first got the MES 30 I read about using a ceramic floor tile as a heat baffle or something bu then I read warnings to not use it because it could cause the smoker to overheat or something and possibly ruin the unit. So, I never used it. My smoker works fine without any mods, other than using the AMNPS.


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## timberjet (Dec 24, 2014)

No water pan needed. Wrap Brick in foil. Same effect.


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## tbeacham (Dec 24, 2014)

Mr T 59874 said:


> You can do as Dave suggest, but you will still have water evaporating from your water pan. Think of when you make stock,  there is a layer of fat on top of your pot, but you still have steam vaporizing do to the water breaking the surface.
> 
> The extra moisture in water pan smokers will cause the smoke to attach itself to the product more readily than a dry smoker would, so be careful not to oversmoke your product.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Tom for answering my question about whether the water will vaporize and break through the fat layer.

The MES30" is well insulated and as an electric smoker should easily maintain a set temperature, so I am not sure why a heat sink of sand or brick or stone or ceramic would be of any benefit.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 24, 2014)

tbeacham said:


> Thanks, Tom for answering my question about whether the water will vaporize and break through the fat layer.
> 
> The MES30" is well insulated and as an electric smoker should easily maintain a set temperature, so I am not sure why a heat sink of sand or brick or stone or ceramic would be of any benefit.


If you open the door a lot you should have some sort of heat sink, but I can tell you I stopped putting water in my water pan 4 years ago after realizing it had no benefits. I don't open my door unless necessary.

I like to smoke meat that isn't wet, just like we form a pellicle on cured meat before smoking. I don't like wet smoke on my meat. 

Just cover it with foil & put it back in place, where it belongs. Cover your bottom drip pan with foil too, for easy clean-up.

Bear


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## mr t 59874 (Dec 24, 2014)

There are those who like a dry smoke and those who prefer to add moisture.  Try both methods,  you will see that the more moisture in the smoker, the less time that is needed to apply smoke.  The water in the pan acts as a heat sink the same as sand or bricks.  Again, keep good notes and you will discover the advantages of both methods and their uses for different products.  Don't be afraid to try new techniques when smoking, your smoking possibilities will broaden significantly. 

Tom


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## daricksta (Dec 24, 2014)

Thanks for using the word "pellicle", Bear because I couldn't remember it. I took a BBQ where the teacher wrongly said meat couldn't absorb any more smoke after the pellicle had formed since it blocked the smoke from the meat. That fallacy was put to rest in these forums.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 24, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> Thanks for using the word "pellicle", Bear because I couldn't remember it. I took a BBQ where the teacher wrongly said meat couldn't absorb any more smoke after the pellicle had formed since it blocked the smoke from the meat. That fallacy was put to rest in these forums.


Yup---And people who use other types of smokers could be better off using water in their pans, but most MES owners learn quickly that it's not a good idea, especially if they graduate to an AMNPS.

Bear


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## daricksta (Dec 24, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> Yup---And people who use other types of smokers could be better off using water in their pans, but most MES owners learn quickly that it's not a good idea, especially if they graduate to an AMNPS.
> 
> Bear


From what I've been told, if MES owners wanted to generate some extra moisture inside the box, they could either very partially add water to the water pan or just use a much smaller container with water in it. Not sure where they could safely place that. Myron Mixon uses water pans on his line of big honkin' flat rack H2O smokers. I don't understand why only this model requires water but I've not the patience for reading up on it today.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 24, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> From what I've been told, if MES owners wanted to generate some extra moisture inside the box, they could either very partially add water to the water pan or just use a much smaller container with water in it. Not sure where they could safely place that. Myron Mixon uses water pans on his line of big honkin' flat rack H2O smokers. I don't understand why only this model requires water but I've not the patience for reading up on it today.


MM doesn't use an MES and an AMNPS.

The only way you're going to dry anything out in an MES would be to open the door too often, and I'm not talking about 4 or 5 times---I'm talking A lot!!!

And if you add water, you might as well throw your AMNPS away!!

The MES is very well insulated & doesn't need water added. Just about All MES veteran owners know this. It's not something new!!

Bear


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## jted (Dec 25, 2014)

Chase1300 said:


> I may be missing something here...I am new to the MES30 (in my case). But I have learned that the water pan serves no "practical" purpose. I hear people talk about filling with sand and covering with foil. Or just putting it in covered in foil. Or putting rocks in it. My seemingly stupid question is why have it in there at all. Why not just leave it out of the smoker all together and just use a disposable foil pan to catch the drippings and and throw it out after use.
> 
> 
> Sorry to hijack your thread.


Chase, you did not hijack his thread. He wanted input and yours is as good as it gets.

Jted


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## daricksta (Dec 26, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> MM doesn't use an MES and an AMNPS.
> 
> The only way you're going to dry anything out in an MES would be to open the door too often, and I'm not talking about 4 or 5 times---I'm talking A lot!!!
> 
> ...


I'm trying to understand better how the MES works. Since it's well-insulated, the moisture produced as a by-product of the smoking/cooking process is enough to keep moist since it combines with the smoke as it blankets the meat while it cooks?

And I'm guessing that by opening the door around 10 times or more during cooking, since the heated, smoky air is being let out, the controller has to continually heat the heating element which extends the cooking time? I'm not totally understanding that. But what about professional smokers who, although they rarely open the door to their smokers, they can smoke for 12 hours or overnight and not dry out the meat? I thought that it was smoking over too long a period of time that dried meat out.

From personal experience, I do know that steam inside a MES is the enemy of the AMNPS.


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## smokepone (Dec 26, 2014)

Great thread and info.  I'm a newbie with the my MES 40.  I thought I could go without water in my pan but was getting mixed up by different things I found on the web.  Is there ever a NEED to use water in the pan?  summer sausage or salami in casings?  I will be interested to see if I can get a better bark when I leave the water pan empty.

On a similar note, do you guys smoke with the MES 40 with the vent open, closed, or some percentage open at different times during the smoke.  Not meaning to hijack the thread, if this has been discussed maybe somebody can point me to the correct thread?  THX, GBO


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## daricksta (Dec 26, 2014)

Smokepone said:


> Great thread and info.  I'm a newbie with the my MES 40.  I thought I could go without water in my pan but was getting mixed up by different things I found on the web.  Is there ever a NEED to use water in the pan?  summer sausage or salami in casings?  I will be interested to see if I can get a better bark when I leave the water pan empty.
> 
> On a similar note, do you guys smoke with the MES 40 with the vent open, closed, or some percentage open at different times during the smoke.  Not meaning to hijack the thread, if this has been discussed maybe somebody can point me to the correct thread?  THX, GBO


I own the MES 30. I always keep the water pan empty and foiled over. I think the less moisture or steam produced inside a MES the more bark will be produced. Bearcarver in this thread covers why the MES doesn't need water or added moisture, even though Masterbuilt advises it. It's just a matter of experience and the results you personally get which influence your decision to add water or not. .

I also keep the top vent wide open. Since I use the A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker (AMNPS) it needs adequate air flow to keep the pellets lit and smoldering.

The people who smoke cured meats like sausage and salami in casings can weigh in on tips for smoking them in the MES.


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## smokepone (Dec 26, 2014)

I smoked some venison salami with water in the pan that turned out very nice.  I was worried the casings would dry out but I might be over thinking it.  I ordered the AMNPS the other day and look forward to using it.


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## timberjet (Dec 26, 2014)

Most smoker manuals still say to soak your wood too. I think the guys who wrote those things don't know their you know what from a hole in the ground when it comes to actually using their products.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 27, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> I'm trying to understand better how the MES works. Since it's well-insulated, the moisture produced as a by-product of the smoking/cooking process is enough to keep moist since it combines with the smoke as it blankets the meat while it cooks?
> 
> And I'm guessing that by opening the door around 10 times or more during cooking, since the heated, smoky air is being let out, the controller has to continually heat the heating element which extends the cooking time? I'm not totally understanding that. But what about professional smokers who, although they rarely open the door to their smokers, they can smoke for 12 hours or overnight and not dry out the meat? I thought that it was smoking over too long a period of time that dried meat out.
> 
> From personal experience, I do know that steam inside a MES is the enemy of the AMNPS.


Every time you open the door you let out the moisture in the smoker & cause the heat to run more & dry the air some.

If you have a glass door in your MES you can see the condensation on the glass during the smoke. That moisture is coming from the meat, since I don't put water in the pan. The only time I ever dried anything out was one time, when I had trouble with adjusting my heat deflector & I opened the door a lot of times. I never did that again & never had the problem again. I smoke various things for 10 to 12 hours without it getting dry at all.

Bear


Smokepone said:


> Great thread and info.  I'm a newbie with the my MES 40.  I thought I could go without water in my pan but was getting mixed up by different things I found on the web.  Is there ever a NEED to use water in the pan?  summer sausage or salami in casings?  I will be interested to see if I can get a better bark when I leave the water pan empty.
> 
> On a similar note, do you guys smoke with the MES 40 with the vent open, closed, or some percentage open at different times during the smoke.  Not meaning to hijack the thread, if this has been discussed maybe somebody can point me to the correct thread?  THX, GBO


I have never found a reason to put water in an MES water pan.

I close my top vent when pre-heating. Then it's always all the way open, with the exception of when it's windy out. Even when windy I have it open 100% if I have a wind block in place.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Dec 27, 2014)

timberjet said:


> Most smoker manuals still say to soak your wood too. I think the guys who wrote those things don't know their you know what from a hole in the ground when it comes to actually using their products.


Yup---It seems guys who have been using their smokers know more about using them than the people who wrote the book.

Masterbuilt has Great Customer service now too, but 5 years ago they didn't. They were all telling me the same thing (Talking Points).

Why am I not getting my chips to smoke until it gets to 220°?

Answer, "Are you using an extension cord?" "Are you soaking your chips?"

Finally I asked, "Have you ever used one of these?"

Answer "No".

I asked, "Have you ever seen one?"

Answer, "Yes, I think there's one in the showroom."

About a month later they started sending out the Retro-fixes for the ones that weren't smoking, because owners convinced them their Talking Points had nothing to do with the problem.

I haven't had problems for 4 years, but those who have say their Phone Customer Service is great nowadays.

Bear


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## jted (Dec 27, 2014)

You know what they say about opinions. When the vast majority are close you should give them some credence. I like many have my own , So let me jump in. 

About the water pan , it holds a lot of smoking paraphernalia as storage  and only goes in the smoker after the cook. I don't use it at all.. I don't need it and want the lower rack as a place to put my drip pan.

I use a smoke stack so I removed the factory baffle.  If I ever wanted to close the exhaust the stack has a baffle. I should move it once in a while so it doe's not stick like the factory one. 

Just my thoughts on a popular set of questions. Your mileage may vary. Opinions we all got them    Jted


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## red dog (Dec 27, 2014)

Another MES user here, going on 4 years, who doesn't use water in the pan. Have never had dry meat cooked in the MES. Now my uninsulated gasser was a different story. Like most people on here I cook by internal  temp not time with ribs being the exception. A remote thermo like the Maverick is a must. And keep the door closed, no peeking! That's why I got the one with a window. That reminds me, I need to clean my window before the next smoke.


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## flash (Dec 27, 2014)

I know with most standard, non electric verticals, you pretty much need a pan, be it water, sand or bricks. Otherwise you are pretty much grilling unless you can keep those temps down to a decent level.


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## daricksta (Dec 27, 2014)

Flash said:


> I know with most standard, non electric verticals, you pretty much need a pan, be it water, sand or bricks. Otherwise you are pretty much grilling unless you can keep those temps down to a decent level.


I've cooked in my MES 30 Gen 1 with and without water in the pan and saw no difference in temp fluctuation. One time the temp did shoot up to 295° because of a clogged hi temp limit switch but after cleaning it and keeping it clean I've had zero problem with keeping cooking temps in the range where I want them.

I stopped using water because it created too much steam for the AMNPS I use for generating smoke.


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## daricksta (Dec 27, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> Every time you open the door you let out the moisture in the smoker & cause the heat to run more & dry the air some.
> 
> If you have a glass door in your MES you can see the condensation on the glass during the smoke. That moisture is coming from the meat, since I don't put water in the pan. The only time I ever dried anything out was one time, when I had trouble with adjusting my heat deflector & I opened the door a lot of times. I never did that again & never had the problem again. I smoke various things for 10 to 12 hours without it getting dry at all.
> 
> ...


Bear, this is the new nugget of info you've given me: starting with my next smoke, I keep the top vent closed when preheating my MES. I also keep it wide open while cooking.

I don't have the glass door model but I don't need it. What do you use for a heat deflector? I don't have one of those either. I once bought a ceramic tile to use for that purpose but read it could really ruin my smoker if I put it inside while it was in use. Something about the tile getting too hot or something, I don't remember.


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## flash (Dec 27, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> I've cooked in my MES 30 Gen 1 with and without water in the pan and saw no difference in temp fluctuation. One time the temp did shoot up to 295° because of a clogged hi temp limit switch but after cleaning it and keeping it clean I've had zero problem with keeping cooking temps in the range where I want them.
> 
> I stopped using water because it created too much steam for the AMNPS I use for generating smoke.


Notice I said Non electric models.  Probably more due to you using a thermostat to set controlled temps, unlike a charcoal model whose temps can fluctuate much more and are harder to control.


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## daricksta (Dec 27, 2014)

Flash said:


> Notice I said Non electric models.  Probably more due to you using a thermostat to set controlled temps, unlike a charcoal model whose temps can fluctuate much more and are harder to control.


You're correct: I saw you did write "non electric" but I think I filtered out the "non" somehow.

The controller on the MES digital certainly does fluctuate but I've been advised it's designed that way but it all averages at to maintaining the set point. I use the Maverick ET-733 to get correct and accurate displays of both ambient and internal temps and avoid overcooking and drying out meat that way.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 28, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> Bear, this is the new nugget of info you've given me: starting with my next smoke, I keep the top vent closed when preheating my MES. I also keep it wide open while cooking.
> 
> I don't have the glass door model but I don't need it. What do you use for a heat deflector? I don't have one of those either. I once bought a ceramic tile to use for that purpose but read it could really ruin my smoker if I put it inside while it was in use. Something about the tile getting too hot or something, I don't remember.


The aluminum plate above my water pan is supported on the left by a metal leg.

I can move that leg left & right to raise or lower the left end of that plate.

Raising it higher on the left causes more heat to go to the center of the smoker, instead of too much going up the right side.

If I need more heat to go up the right side, I can also slide the whole plate a small amount away from the right wall, allowing heat to got straight up.

This picture was before I started covering the plate with foil.













100_2142.JPG



__ tropics
__ Jun 6, 2015


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## bdskelly (Dec 28, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> Your thinking is off a bit... You can't force water into the meat from humidity... Remove the water, form a bark on the meat that will hold in the moisture.... Once the bark has formed, there will be very little dripping from it....


Spot on Dave O. I stopped putting water in the pan many years ago and my barbecue improved the day i did. Better bark and better flavor. Water in the pan does little to keep the meat moist.  ......Want moist meat? Then don't over cook it.  A good meat thermometer can help. b


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## smokinnn (Jun 2, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Here's another vote for keeping the water pan empty but foiling it over to prevent grease from dripping into it. I filled it with clean playground sand a couple of times. I stopped doing that the time I wheeled my MES 30 (bungee corded to a small hand truck) from my backyard to my garage. The next time I wheeled it out and opened it, there was a large pile of sand all along the back wall, despite the water pan having been foiled over. Took about 40 minutes or so to sweep it all out since much of the sand had absorbed grease from the floor of the smoker. No more sand-filled water pan for me. I also saw filling it with sand made absolutely no difference as far as temperature regulation was concerned. It was a bust as a heat sink.


Is the recommendation here to not use water only meant for electric smokers?  I have always used propane smokers (on my third one now) and have found that the bigger the water pan, the more water, the easier it is to keep the temperature low and steady.  Without the water it gets way too hot.  In fact I have kept the bigger water pan from my first Masterbuilt 7-1 and used it in my Masterbuilt 40 and now in my Smoke Hollow 44.  Would sand or a brick work just as well as water in a propane smoker?  

_Edit:  Sorry, I just noticed this thread was actually in the electric smoker forum.  I had come in through a search and did not realize that.  Reading more of the posts, I did come to the conclusion that this recommendation is mainly for electric smokers, which makes sense.  _


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2015)

smokinnn said:


> Is the recommendation here to not use water only meant for electric smokers?  I have always used propane smokers (on my third one now) and have found that the bigger the water pan, the more water, the easier it is to keep the temperature low and steady.  Without the water it gets way too hot.  In fact I have kept the bigger water pan from my first Masterbuilt 7-1 and used it in my Masterbuilt 40 and now in my Smoke Hollow 44.  Would sand or a brick work just as well as water in a propane smoker?


A water pan with water in it might be good for some types of smokers, but definitely not a good thing in an MES. They're so well insulated that there is plenty of humidity inside. You would have to open your door a whole lot of times to get anything to dry out.

Yes Sand or a Brick will help the heat recovery, but it will also take awhile to heat the sand or brick up in the beginning, especially in the North during the Winter.

Bear


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## daricksta (Jun 2, 2015)

smokinnn said:


> Is the recommendation here to not use water only meant for electric smokers?  I have always used propane smokers (on my third one now) and have found that the bigger the water pan, the more water, the easier it is to keep the temperature low and steady.  Without the water it gets way too hot.  In fact I have kept the bigger water pan from my first Masterbuilt 7-1 and used it in my Masterbuilt 40 and now in my Smoke Hollow 44.  Would sand or a brick work just as well as water in a propane smoker?
> 
> _Edit:  Sorry, I just noticed this thread was actually in the electric smoker forum.  I had come in through a search and did not realize that.  Reading more of the posts, I did come to the conclusion that this recommendation is mainly for electric smokers, which makes sense.  _


My understanding is that the water pan in the MES smokers provides way too much water surface for the interior size of both the MES 30 and MES 40 models. The meat therefore is being steamed more than slow cooked over wood smoke. I cook without water in the pan and I have no problem keeping temps low and fairly steady in my smoker. Unless I overcook the meat, it comes out moist without using any water inside the pan.


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## mummel (Jun 3, 2015)

I plan to foil my water pan and use it as a drip tray.  Would foiling that angled sheet metal/wood chip tray cover in the MES 40 BT affect the heat transmission from the element?


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## Bearcarver (Jun 3, 2015)

mummel said:


> I plan to foil my water pan and use it as a drip tray.  Would foiling that angled sheet metal/wood chip tray cover in the MES 40 BT affect the heat transmission from the element?


I would wait until you at least get that smoker before you worry about foiling that little angled sheet. In order for foil to stay on the top you would have to wrap it around the bottom, and as tight as things look in the pictures, you might cause a problem with things that move under that angled shield. I like to plan ahead to, but on that I'd wait & check it out before I worry about that.

Also there isn't much of that angled plate that sticks out beyond the right edges of the water pan.

Bear


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## daricksta (Jun 3, 2015)

mummel said:


> I plan to foil my water pan and use it as a drip tray.  Would foiling that angled sheet metal/wood chip tray cover in the MES 40 BT affect the heat transmission from the element?


Watch the video on this page and see if it answers your question: http://www.basspro.com/Masterbuilt-...moker-with-Viewing-Window/product/1408211413/

It also shows you that the loader handle does indeed pull in and out easily.


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## Bearcarver (Jun 5, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Watch the video on this page and see if it answers your question: http://www.basspro.com/Masterbuilt-...moker-with-Viewing-Window/product/1408211413/
> 
> It also shows you that the loader handle does indeed pull in and out easily.


I finally got upstairs to my iMac to watch this video. With the big 27" screen I could see that the chip dumper comes in behind the angled plate above the chip drawer. Now I understand how that plate doesn't interfere with the dumper. In the pics on my MacBook Pro it looks like the dumper is halfway above that plate, and the plate would have to be hinged on the left so it could lift up to allow the dumper to come in far enough to dump.

Amazing what a bigger pic can do, which is why I used to like "BearViews". Thanks Rick!!

Bear


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## daricksta (Jun 5, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> I finally got upstairs to my iMac to watch this video. With the big 27" screen I could see that the chip dumper comes in behind the angled plate above the chip drawer. Now I understand how that plate doesn't interfere with the dumper. In the pics on my MacBook Pro it looks like the dumper is halfway above that plate, and the plate would have to be hinged on the left so it could lift up to allow the dumper to come in far enough to dump.
> 
> Amazing what a bigger pic can do, which is why I used to like "BearViews". Thanks Rick!!
> 
> Bear


You're welcome, Bear. I had to watch the part where the ash drawer is pulled out a couple of times to finally "see" it. It looks like that plate is actually angled higher in the rear than it looks from the front. The chip dumper both easily fits under it and clears both the underside of the plate and the top of the drawer. You can see that at about the :29 point on the video.

That's a really nice-looking smoker. I think there's an identical and cheaper model without the Bluetooth feature and that's the MES 40 I'd want.


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## jted (Jun 5, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You're welcome, Bear. I had to watch the part where the ash drawer is pulled out a couple of times to finally "see" it. It looks like that plate is actually angled higher in the rear than it looks from the front. The chip dumper both easily fits under it and clears both the underside of the plate and the top of the drawer. You can see that at about the :29 point on the video.
> 
> That's a really nice-looking smoker. I think there's an identical and cheaper model without the Bluetooth feature and that's the MES 40 I'd want.


They really make that one appealing. Chef JimmyJ  posted this link if any one wants a Gen 1-40.

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/masterbuilt-40-digital-electric-smokehouse-with-window/pid-638907?N=851169500&Ntt=masterbuilt&Ntk=All

I think that would be the 40 that I would like at 300.00 dollars. I had not seen a gen 1 advertised for awhile and would not have known  where to get one. Jted


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## Bearcarver (Jun 5, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You're welcome, Bear. I had to watch the part where the ash drawer is pulled out a couple of times to finally "see" it. It looks like that plate is actually angled higher in the rear than it looks from the front. The chip dumper both easily fits under it and clears both the underside of the plate and the top of the drawer. You can see that at about the :29 point on the video.
> 
> That's a really nice-looking smoker. I think there's an identical and cheaper model without the Bluetooth feature and that's the MES 40 I'd want.


I have not seen an identical smoker to the #2.5 that's not Bluetooth.

The other ones that have the vent on the top left, are Gen #2 with no cover over the controls and the full width slanted drip plate (the part I wouldn't buy).

Bear


jted said:


> They really make that one appealing. Chef JimmyJ  posted this link if any one wants a Gen 1-40.
> 
> http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/masterbuilt-40-digital-electric-smokehouse-with-window/pid-638907?N=851169500&Ntt=masterbuilt&Ntk=All
> 
> I think that would be the 40 that I would like at 300.00 dollars. I had not seen a gen 1 advertised for awhile and would not have known  where to get one. Jted


That one looks exactly like mine, and I paid $349 for it over 5 years ago!!!

Anybody wanting a Great MES 40 should suck that right up!!

Bear


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## daricksta (Jun 5, 2015)

jted said:


> They really make that one appealing. Chef JimmyJ  posted this link if any one wants a Gen 1-40.
> 
> http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/masterbuilt-40-digital-electric-smokehouse-with-window/pid-638907?N=851169500&Ntt=masterbuilt&Ntk=All
> 
> I think that would be the 40 that I would like at 300.00 dollars. I had not seen a gen 1 advertised for awhile and would not have known  where to get one. Jted


Yes indeed--that's the one I want!


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## daricksta (Jun 5, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> I have not seen an identical smoker to the #2.5 that's not Bluetooth.
> 
> The other ones that have the vent on the top left, are Gen #2 with no cover over the controls and the full width slanted drip plate (the part I wouldn't buy).
> 
> ...


Bear--from your fingers to my bank account! (My own play on "from your lips to God's ears"...)


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## mobiledawg (Jun 13, 2015)

I"m new to this forum and wish I had found you guys a couple of years ago. I have been smoking with a MES 40" for two years using water on every cook and using soaked wood chips in the unit for each cook. Well guess what, my meat always comes out juicy and tender (having been steamed for many hours) but with  absolutely no smoke flavor, no smoke ring, and very bland. The information on this forum has kept me from giving up on an electric smoker. I don't know why I just kept doing the same thing over and over with poor results without looking for others with more experience with this particular unit. My AMNS is on the way, my water pan will remain dry and I can't wait untill next weekend when I can put my new knowledge to use. Thanks for all the good information, I will be back with the results next week. I am going to seek out further information about the AMNS here on the forum so if someone has advice and getting the best out of a long smoke with the product I would be greatful.

BKV


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## daveomak (Jun 14, 2015)

Do a search for "mailbox mods"... http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/newsearch?search=mailbox+mods&=Search  .. they are great in the MES...


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## stovebolt (Jun 14, 2015)

mobiledawg said:


> I"m new to this forum and wish I had found you guys a couple of years ago. I have been smoking with a MES 40" for two years using water on every cook and using soaked wood chips in the unit for each cook. Well guess what, my meat always comes out juicy and tender (having been steamed for many hours) but with  absolutely no smoke flavor, no smoke ring, and very bland. The information on this forum has kept me from giving up on an electric smoker. I don't know why I just kept doing the same thing over and over with poor results without looking for others with more experience with this particular unit. My AMNS is on the way, my water pan will remain dry and I can't wait untill next weekend when I can put my new knowledge to use. Thanks for all the good information, I will be back with the results next week. I am going to seek out further information about the AMNS here on the forum so if someone has advice and getting the best out of a long smoke with the product I would be greatful.
> 
> BKV


  I think the AMNPS (pellet smoker) is a better choice for your MES40.  AMNS burns sawdust, didn't work well for me. Call or PM Todd for information.

Chuck


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## Bearcarver (Jun 14, 2015)

mobiledawg said:


> I"m new to this forum and wish I had found you guys a couple of years ago. I have been smoking with a MES 40" for two years using water on every cook and using soaked wood chips in the unit for each cook. Well guess what, my meat always comes out juicy and tender (having been steamed for many hours) but with  absolutely no smoke flavor, no smoke ring, and very bland. The information on this forum has kept me from giving up on an electric smoker. I don't know why I just kept doing the same thing over and over with poor results without looking for others with more experience with this particular unit. My AMNS is on the way, my water pan will remain dry and I can't wait untill next weekend when I can put my new knowledge to use. Thanks for all the good information, I will be back with the results next week. I am going to seek out further information about the AMNS here on the forum so if someone has advice and getting the best out of a long smoke with the product I would be greatful.
> 
> BKV


Welcome to SMF !!

Lots of MES 30s & 40s around here!!

My Index below should help you a bit. All of the Smokes in there were done in an MES:

 Just click on *"Bear's Step by Steps"*.

Bear


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## mobiledawg (Jun 14, 2015)

stovebolt said:


> I think the AMNPS (pellet smoker) is a better choice for your MES40.  AMNS burns sawdust, didn't work well for me. Call or PM Todd for information.
> 
> Chuck


That's what I meant pellet smoker. Still getting used to abrevations


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## daricksta (Jun 15, 2015)

mobiledawg said:


> I"m new to this forum and wish I had found you guys a couple of years ago. I have been smoking with a MES 40" for two years using water on every cook and using soaked wood chips in the unit for each cook. Well guess what, my meat always comes out juicy and tender (having been steamed for many hours) but with  absolutely no smoke flavor, no smoke ring, and very bland. The information on this forum has kept me from giving up on an electric smoker. I don't know why I just kept doing the same thing over and over with poor results without looking for others with more experience with this particular unit. My AMNS is on the way, my water pan will remain dry and I can't wait untill next weekend when I can put my new knowledge to use. Thanks for all the good information, I will be back with the results next week. I am going to seek out further information about the AMNS here on the forum so if someone has advice and getting the best out of a long smoke with the product I would be greatful.
> 
> BKV


You might have been told this already but you won't get a smoke ring with an electric smoker. I found this out after buying my MES 30 Gen 1. But, I use the AMNPS and wood pellets and I definitely get smoked flavor that rivals what you'll get in BBQ restaurants. Many guys put down Masterbuilt electric smokers but I've had mine for 3 years and I continue to maintain I'll put up the ribs and briskets I've smoked in there against places like Famous Dave's and Dickey's BBQ Pit. The MES is so well insulated that it's a great little smoker once you learn the ropes. I'm at the point know where I'm confident that I know what I'm doing. Nothing fancy, just damn good Q. You can produce the same quality Q in your smoker as well.


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## mobiledawg (Jun 15, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You might have been told this already but you won't get a smoke ring with an electric smoker. I found this out after buying my MES 30 Gen 1. But, I use the AMNPS and wood pellets and I definitely get smoked flavor that rivals what you'll get in BBQ restaurants. Many guys put down Masterbuilt electric smokers but I've had mine for 3 years and I continue to maintain I'll put up the ribs and briskets I've smoked in there against places like Famous Dave's and Dickey's BBQ Pit. The MES is so well insulated that it's a great little smoker once you learn the ropes. I'm at the point know where I'm confident that I know what I'm doing. Nothing fancy, just damn good Q. You can produce the same quality Q in your smoker as well.


How about bark. I've very interested in having bark on most if not all of my smokes


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## daricksta (Jun 16, 2015)

mobiledawg said:


> How about bark. I've very interested in having bark on most if not all of my smokes


Mobiledawg, I've been smoking with my MES 30 Gen 1 for 3 years and I guarantee you that you'll get bark. You just need to apply plenty of rub--could be as simple as just salt and pepper--and even using the AMNS and dust you will get bark. I agree with Chuck (Stovebolt) that the AMNPS is a better match for the MES 40 but my good friend Bearcarver in the thread "Finally Decided to Get a 40" Bluetooth Yesterday", post #53 posted a photo of him using a AMNS with dust in his MES 30 for a cold smoke which of course is not what we're talking about here. I mention him as an example of someone who uses the AMNS in a MES for certain smokes. But Bear's told me that he gets better smoke from his AMNPS burning wood pellets in both the MES 30 and MES 40.

I own is the AMNPS so that's all I can speak to. But back to bark. A few weeks ago, as an experiment, I smoked St. Louis ribs without foiling because I never see BBQ pros in competition foil their ribs. I prefer the "wet" look to my finished ribs but cooking the ribs without foiling produced way more bark than I wanted. My wife loved the ribs but it wasn't the style I like which is produced by using the 3-2-1 method or variations thereof. I've also gotten heavy bark on beef briskets cooked totally unfoiled, or foiled at around the 6 or 7 hour mark (in a 11-12 hour smoke). But again, applying the rub before placing meat in the smoker is the key. You can even apply mop sauce and/or finishing sauce and you'll still get your bark.

What's nice about the MES is that it's a great little smoker for the money. With it you can learn techniques for getting heavy bark or almost none at all, depending on your personal preference. I've learned how to do both.


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## mori55 (Jun 29, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You might have been told this already but you won't get a smoke ring with an electric smoker. I found this out after buying my MES 30 Gen 1. But, I use the AMNPS and wood pellets and I definitely get smoked flavor that rivals what you'll get in BBQ restaurants. Many guys put down Masterbuilt electric smokers but I've had mine for 3 years and I continue to maintain I'll put up the ribs and briskets I've smoked in there against places like Famous Dave's and Dickey's BBQ Pit. The MES is so well insulated that it's a great little smoker once you learn the ropes. I'm at the point know where I'm confident that I know what I'm doing. Nothing fancy, just damn good Q. You can produce the same quality Q in your smoker as well.


 if I could do ribs like famous Daves I would be a happy man ! So hi do you do yor ribs ,


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## jp61 (Jun 29, 2015)

mori55 said:


> if I could do ribs like famous Daves I would be a happy man ! So hi do you do yor ribs ,


He's a member here!

Shoot him a PM, I'm sure he'll hook you up! 








FamousDave01






  
offline

2 Posts. Joined 4/2012
Location: Land of Opportunity, USA
Points: 10

Hi this is Famous Dave and I just found this forum. I have been smoking meats, eating barbecue for 45 years. My dad is an old Choctaw Indian from Idabel OK right smack in the Bible belt of the heartland of America. I grew up eating old fashioned Southern foods and the best tasting barbecue. I love traveling the country and discovering the best tasting barbecue in roadside smoke shacks or store front bbq joints in the inner city. Working on a new cook book Famous Daves' BBQ Party Cookbook to be released this late spring! I love going to and competing in Rib Burnoffs and BBQ competitions. I prefer smoking over real wood not off set. My favorite smoker is an old Chicago style aquarium smoker made over 30 years ago. I grew up having to make my own smokers out of garbage cans. Today, I have them all... Southern Prides, CookShacks, Smokey Mountains, Weber Kettles, Traegers, Fast Eddy, Green Eggs, and Meadow Creeks. I guess my favorites are always my real pit aquarium smoker, a simple weber kettle, my green egg, and the Meadow Creek.

"Famous Dave"








FamousDave01





  
offline

2 Posts. Joined 4/2012
Location: Land of Opportunity, USA
Points: 10

Yup... I'm the real deal... and the Devil's Spit guy. I usually spill my guts out on Facebook but figured that it would be good to also share my bbq insights on the barbecue forums...my only concern is keeping up with all of them. So while my first intentions are good... I don't have all day to spend on the internet when I need to be smoking up a storm! I am very open about what I have learned and if I have the time will answer all questions or I'll tell you I don't know. I would not be where I'm at today if when I was a kid a number of old indians, black folk, and backwoods hillbillies didn't take a liking to me and shared with me the ins and outs around real pit smokers. Just know I appreciate all kinds of barbecue. I love trying out other people's rib joints... and I have no ego... I am always learning and despite 45 years smoking up a storm I still take bbq classes. Must have took 3 last year alone. Never can tell what you can learn. Although I think one of these days I will do one my own because I have my own twist on smoke, smoldering coals, sauces, and seasonings. I buy every barbecue cookbook I can find and I must have one of the largest bbq sauce collections in the US. I literally have been thousands of bbq joints in over 40 years. To say I love bbq would be an understatement! Thanks for having me... "Famous Dave"


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## daricksta (Jun 29, 2015)

mori55 said:


> if I could do ribs like famous Daves I would be a happy man ! So hi do you do yor ribs ,


Funny you should ask since I'm doing baby backs tomorrow in my MES 30 Gen 1. I never tasted Famous Dave's but I have eaten Dickey's BBQ Pit and the old Tony Roma's. I and my wife feel mine are _much_ better. Thanks to this forum and to Jeff Phillips, I use the 3-2-1 or 2-2-1 cooking method. 2-3 hours unfoiled, 2 hours foiled with foil juice inside, then .5-1 hour unfoiled when I brush on a finishing sauce. I don't want my ribs falling off the bone. I want them to bend and to have little tug when I pull the meat off with my teeth.

I'm going to apply a rub from a recipe in a Steven Raichlen cookbook, create my own foil juice, and then use a commercial BBQ sauce at the end. I'm going to smoke over hickory wood pellets at around 225-235°, probably 235. I like my ribs to have a wet look and not heavy bark, although the bark will be there. I use the AMNPS which is great since it never oversmokes meat but serves to have the smoke enhance the flavor.


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## jted (Jun 30, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Funny you should ask since I'm doing baby backs tomorrow in my MES 30 Gen 1. I never tasted Famous Dave's but I have eaten Dickey's BBQ Pit and the old Tony Roma's. I and my wife feel mine are _much_ better. Thanks to this forum and to Jeff Phillips, I use the 3-2-1 or 2-2-1 cooking method. 2-3 hours unfoiled, 2 hours foiled with foil juice inside, then .5-1 hour unfoiled when I brush on a finishing sauce. I don't want my ribs falling off the bone. I want them to bend and to have little tug when I pull the meat off with my teeth.
> 
> I'm going to apply a rub from a recipe in a Steven Raichlen cookbook, create my own foil juice, and then use a commercial BBQ sauce at the end. I'm going to smoke over hickory wood pellets at around 225-235°, probably 235. I like my ribs to have a wet look and not heavy bark, although the bark will be there. I use the AMNPS which is great since it never oversmokes meat but serves to have the smoke enhance the flavor.


daRickta, You have a sound plan. Please share  a picture of your finished product when you are finished. Prying eyes you know.  Jted


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## daricksta (Jun 30, 2015)

jted said:


> daRickta, You have a sound plan. Please share  a picture of your finished product when you are finished. Prying eyes you know.  Jted


Thanks, Jted. Although I've got a few books on smoking, I'd say it was from what I learned on SMF that enabled me to make great ribs, and I sincerely think they're great. I know that family and friends have told me the same thing. And, anyone can do it. Get the right tools, learn the basic techniques, and it's really very easy.

I'll be posting Q-View and I'll also share the rub recipe I'm using. My wife chose it and it's one I've never tried before.


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## Bearcarver (Jun 30, 2015)

JP61 said:


> He's a member here!
> 
> Shoot him a PM, I'm sure he'll hook you up!


Might take awhile to get a reply.

That "Famous Dave" only ever made 2 posts on this forum, and hasn't been here for over 3 years.

Bear


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## jp61 (Jun 30, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Might take awhile to get a reply.
> 
> That "Famous Dave" only ever made 2 posts on this forum, and hasn't been here for over 3 years.
> 
> Bear










  yes, I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## daricksta (Jun 30, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Might take awhile to get a reply.
> 
> That "Famous Dave" only ever made 2 posts on this forum, and hasn't been here for over 3 years.
> 
> Bear


The _real_ Famous Dave? I'm not a fan of FD. Never been to his restaurant but I saw him compete in a TV BBQ competition and I wasn't impressed with what he did. I think he was the 1st or 2nd to be eliminated. I've seen his BBQ sauce and pickles at the supermarket and there's a lot of cheap ingredients in there. I think Stubbs sells much better products, overall.

Some people probably missed it but last week I posted a quote from a smoking page that claimed electric smokers turn out better products than most BBQ restaurants.

There's going to be a pork BBQ competition in my town in September. I won't be competing but I'll sure be out there tasting to see how the Q of the pros and amateurs compares to mine.


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## alwaysntraining (Mar 16, 2016)

I am going to use my MES 40 for the first time tomorrow. You guys have given me so much good advice on here. You have probably saved me a year of trial and error. I know this thread is a little older but great info. I would have filled my water pan half full and closed my vent off half way to start. I have had 4-Brinkmann electric smokers in the past. Sometimes it would be great and sometimes not at all. I would fill the water pan every time, if not it was a grill but since it is not insulated I would cover it when it was cold out. The colder the more large towels I would put on. Looking back, the more towels I used the worse the results. No towels and I had good results. No steam was getting out when it was so covered up and steaming instead of smoking. The meat would come out with no bark and really bitter. It should have been more obvious I guess. Figured it was more of a season issue. With all your comments everything makes more since. Sorry for the rambling on but my past validates all you guys have said!!! One last thing, I like the flavor a beer in the smoker gives. What would be the best way to do that, maybe cut a can in half with a couple inches of beer and set it in the water pan or still best without all together? Before I just dumped it in the water.


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## Bearcarver (Mar 17, 2016)

AlwaysNtraining said:


> I am going to use my MES 40 for the first time tomorrow. You guys have given me so much good advice on here. You have probably saved me a year of trial and error. I know this thread is a little older but great info. I would have filled my water pan half full and closed my vent off half way to start. I have had 4-Brinkmann electric smokers in the past. Sometimes it would be great and sometimes not at all. I would fill the water pan every time, if not it was a grill but since it is not insulated I would cover it when it was cold out. The colder the more large towels I would put on. Looking back, the more towels I used the worse the results. No towels and I had good results. No steam was getting out when it was so covered up and steaming instead of smoking. The meat would come out with no bark and really bitter. It should have been more obvious I guess. Figured it was more of a season issue. With all your comments everything makes more since. Sorry for the rambling on but my past validates all you guys have said!!! One last thing, I like the flavor a beer in the smoker gives. What would be the best way to do that, maybe cut a can in half with a couple inches of beer and set it in the water pan or still best without all together? Before I just dumped it in the water.


When I used to add water to my water pan (6 years ago), I used to try Beer or Apple Juice, or a few other things. I couldn't taste any of the things I added, and then I found out it works better with the water pan empty anyway.

If you want to add Beer flavor, add it to the second step (foiling step) when doing Ribs, or when you foil a Butt at about 165° (if you do it like I do).

Bear


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## alwaysntraining (Mar 17, 2016)

Ok thanks. I might give that a try or maybe try a mister bottle and spray it once or twice but hate opening the door. Just another reason to open another one, lol.


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