# AMNPS keeps dying out What am I doing wrong?



## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

I have an AMNPS that is filled with pecan sawdust. I have it set at the bottom of my charcoal grill and am cold smoking some bacons. I've had to relight it three times now and I need a little help understanding why. I have the bottom vents almost closed, only open a little and I have the top vent open just a little as well. The second time I lit it, i opened up the bottom ones to about a 1/4 open and opened the top up just a tiny bit more. It still went out. The 3rd time, I opened up the bottom some more yet and didn't change the top. The temp outside is around 36 and wind is almost nothing.

What gives? The sawdust doesn't feel green or wet. It seems to be nice and dry. I've never used pecan before and am wondering if that is characteristic of that wood. I did some bacons a couple weeks ago with some applewood and it burned just fine.

Thanks,

Krazy4Bakon


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## linguica (Jan 20, 2013)

Try opening up both vents some and putting the AMNPS closer to the bottom vent.


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## rabbithutch (Jan 20, 2013)

When I first read your post, I thought you were trying to use the AMNPS with a charcoal fire, then I saw that you were cold smoking.  A charcoal fire will take all the oxygen away from the smoker.  I can't say for sure, but it sounds to me like you are starving it for oxygen.  Open the top vents all the way and the bottom vents at least halfway.

If it were me I'd open both vents entirely.  If it still wouldn't stay lit, then I'd say there is a problem.  After you get it to stay lit, experiment a little leaving the top vent wide open and adjusting the bottom vent only.  At some point you'll reach a balance that works.

FWIW I use only pellets in my AMNPS.  I have no experience using sawdust but would think that it might need even more oxygen as it compacts with little air space between particles.

HTH


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## deanoaz (Jan 20, 2013)

My  experiences with the AMNPS are:

When I put it in the charcoal pan (I have an ECB) in the bottom, by itself, and use it as a cold smoker, it has lasted for 11 1/2 hours.

When I put it on the bottom on one side, with some charcoal chunks on the other side, separated by a metal divider (trying to get higher temps than cold smoking, but not too high), I have gotten it to burn, but with some difficulty.

When I put it on the rack just above my water pan (sand in the pan), with charcoal chunks in the charcoal pan, I can't for the life of me, keep it burning.

I believe the problem is (and I have heard this from Robb) is lack of GOOD air flow.  It is probably the fact that the burner (charcoal or whatever) is sucking up all the GOOD air during its combustion and sending the oxygen-depleted air up to the top.

I am trying a couple of fixes: I have already drilled a bunch more air holes in my charcoal pan at the bottom.  I am also going to see if I can use it as a pure smoke generator (no charcoal in the charcoal pan), but put it on my rack just above the water pan.  That should indicate whether the water pan is getting in the way of air flow or the heat coming off the charcoal pan is "bad" air and cuts off combustion in the AMNPS.

This may not have too much bearing on your specific setup, but it might have a little bearing.


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

Well thanks a bunch. I believe that I am suffering a lack of oxygen. It is a charcoal grill but I am just using it for the racks and the container itself. I pulled the charcoal pan out of the bottom and have my AMNPS sitting at the bottom by itself. I will try to open up the top all the way and start at half way with the bottom and see what happens. Thank you all for responding! I didn't want to open the top vent up all the way cuz I don't want that precious smoke goin' anywhere! That may be a flawd thought though...


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## s2k9k (Jan 20, 2013)

Open all the vents and get some air in there. You want good airflow and you aren't going to lose precious smoke, you want the smoke to flow through the chamber and not just sit inside stagnant where it can create creosote. As long as the dust is burning you will continue to get fresh new smoke so you really won't be losing anything. Airflow is a big key to how a smoker works.


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

I now have the top opened up all the way and the bottom vents half way. It is going pretty good now! Thank you all!


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## mr t 59874 (Jan 20, 2013)

Krazy,

Open all vents for max airflow.

Insure your dust is dry.  Maybe a short trip to the micro-wave will help.  You can also pulverize it in a blender for long burns.  For more smoke light both ends.

deanoaz,

Placing it above a water pan will add moisture to the fuel.  Try moving it away from any moisture.  Again give it as much airflow possible.


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## tjohnson (Jan 20, 2013)

WOW!

You guys got him covered!!!

Make sure you start the sawdust with a torch.  Blow on the sawdust, until you get a nice cherry like on a cigar

Pecan sawdust is similar to oak, and actually burns well

Some guys will "Nuke" the sawdust, to make it super dry

Place the AMNPS right above the vent holes in the bottom, without anything in between, that will deflect the draft

Open up one of the bottom vents and all the top vents...We want the smoke to rise

36° is a little chilly for cold smoking, so you may want to think about adding some auxiliary heat.  I've used a 100 watt light bulb and covered my smoker with a blanket to hold the heat in.  You're not going to get much above 50°, but this may just be enough heat for the smoke to penetrate

Todd


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

Opening the vents absolutely was the trick! I opened everything up and got a good smoke going. You could barely see it and it was nice and blue. It burned all the way, just lighting it at one end. I filled er up again and will let it go for the evening and should be all the smoke I want. The bacons are starting to turn a nice mahogany color. I will be eating fresh bacon for breakfast! I will take some pics and show you how it turned out! Thanks again for all the tips! Glad to be part of a nice group of knowledgable people!

Jason


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

What is an ideal temp for cold smoking? I didn't think it could be too cold. The day turned out nice and temps rose to high 50's. I don't know what temp was inside the grill but didn't know it could be too cold. Now I'm curious to know if smoking this overnight when it will be 30 degrees is a waste of sawdust.


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## mr t 59874 (Jan 21, 2013)

Krazy4Bakon said:


> What is an ideal temp for cold smoking? I didn't think it could be too cold. The day turned out nice and temps rose to high 50's. I don't know what temp was inside the grill but didn't know it could be too cold. Now I'm curious to know if smoking this overnight when it will be 30 degrees is a waste of sawdust.


Krazy,

The true definition of "Cold Smoking" is ,smoking at a internal smoker temperature of 90° or below.  The cooler the temperature the better the smoke will stick to your product.  If coarse you will want to keep it above freezing.  Using the AMNPS I smoke my bacon 24 hours a day for around three days.  Allow the bacon to rest a few days before freezing to allow the smoke to penetrate.  You should have no problem as the smoker will generate heat.

Mr. T


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## deanoaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Mr T 59874 said:


> deanoaz,
> 
> Placing it above a water pan will add moisture to the fuel.  Try moving it away from any moisture.  Again give it as much airflow possible.


I wasn't trying to use it above a water pan WITH water in it.  I was just having it on the grate above the pan with sand in it and a small amount of charcoal in the burner pan below to elevate the temperature in the smoker a little above cold smoking.

Sorry, Krazy, I wasn't trying to hijack your thread.


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## mr t 59874 (Jan 21, 2013)

OK. I understand.  Try getting it as close to the air intake as possible.


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 21, 2013)

Well here are a couple of pics of the finished product. I wish I had smelly vision to share the smell, as it is unbelievable! The wife is going nuts over the smell! I fried up a few pieces and it tastes equally as well with one exception. When I was rinsing the bellies to get the salt levels down, I washed my maple flavor out of it too and find that I only get a hint of maple every now and again, but the salt level is absolutely where I want it (my 1st batch was a bit too salty) and the smoke flavor is out of sight, so I guess I don't mind the maple flavor being gone. At the end of the day, it is very, very edible!

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to be posting pics of my bacon... I'm just happy its done













IMG_1681.JPG



__ krazy4bakon
__ Jan 21, 2013


















IMG_1684.JPG



__ krazy4bakon
__ Jan 21, 2013


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 21, 2013)

No worries deanoaz!


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## tjohnson (Jan 21, 2013)

Very Cool!

I've found that smoke does not rise very well in very cold temps

Adding just a little heat starts the smoke moving thru the smoker

Glad you got it working!!!

Todd


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## alaskanbear (Jan 21, 2013)

LOL, Funny I should of even thought to respond to this post.. Cane here with a good idea on air flow being the problem, but, alas, a day late and a dollar short..  Good advice from the master as well, and Todd, KEEP up your excellent work!!  I love all three of my smokers and just about to pull the trigger on another, tried during the big xmas sale but for some reason, page wouldnt take my order..oh well, theres always next time...lol

Rich


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## deanoaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Krazy4Bakon said:


> Well here are a couple of pics of the finished product. I wish I had smelly vision to share the smell, as it is unbelievable! The wife is going nuts over the smell! I fried up a few pieces and it tastes equally as well with one exception. When I was rinsing the bellies to get the salt levels down, I washed my maple flavor out of it too and find that I only get a hint of maple every now and again, but the salt level is absolutely where I want it (my 1st batch was a bit too salty) and the smoke flavor is out of sight, so I guess I don't mind the maple flavor being gone. At the end of the day, it is very, very edible!
> 
> Sorry if this is not the correct thread to be posting pics of my bacon... I'm just happy its done
> 
> *Somewhere in here, I ran across the idea that for crispy, smoked bacon, you need to do it in the microwave.  I did that this morning with some of my first batch and it worked.  In the frying pan it didn't get crispy.*


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## rabbithutch (Jan 22, 2013)

That is some AWESOME LOOKING BACON!

Looks like you've about got it mastered.  Thanks for the pics!


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

I have an AMNPS that is filled with pecan sawdust. I have it set at the bottom of my charcoal grill and am cold smoking some bacons. I've had to relight it three times now and I need a little help understanding why. I have the bottom vents almost closed, only open a little and I have the top vent open just a little as well. The second time I lit it, i opened up the bottom ones to about a 1/4 open and opened the top up just a tiny bit more. It still went out. The 3rd time, I opened up the bottom some more yet and didn't change the top. The temp outside is around 36 and wind is almost nothing.

What gives? The sawdust doesn't feel green or wet. It seems to be nice and dry. I've never used pecan before and am wondering if that is characteristic of that wood. I did some bacons a couple weeks ago with some applewood and it burned just fine.

Thanks,

Krazy4Bakon


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## linguica (Jan 20, 2013)

Try opening up both vents some and putting the AMNPS closer to the bottom vent.


----------



## rabbithutch (Jan 20, 2013)

When I first read your post, I thought you were trying to use the AMNPS with a charcoal fire, then I saw that you were cold smoking.  A charcoal fire will take all the oxygen away from the smoker.  I can't say for sure, but it sounds to me like you are starving it for oxygen.  Open the top vents all the way and the bottom vents at least halfway.

If it were me I'd open both vents entirely.  If it still wouldn't stay lit, then I'd say there is a problem.  After you get it to stay lit, experiment a little leaving the top vent wide open and adjusting the bottom vent only.  At some point you'll reach a balance that works.

FWIW I use only pellets in my AMNPS.  I have no experience using sawdust but would think that it might need even more oxygen as it compacts with little air space between particles.

HTH


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## deanoaz (Jan 20, 2013)

My  experiences with the AMNPS are:

When I put it in the charcoal pan (I have an ECB) in the bottom, by itself, and use it as a cold smoker, it has lasted for 11 1/2 hours.

When I put it on the bottom on one side, with some charcoal chunks on the other side, separated by a metal divider (trying to get higher temps than cold smoking, but not too high), I have gotten it to burn, but with some difficulty.

When I put it on the rack just above my water pan (sand in the pan), with charcoal chunks in the charcoal pan, I can't for the life of me, keep it burning.

I believe the problem is (and I have heard this from Robb) is lack of GOOD air flow.  It is probably the fact that the burner (charcoal or whatever) is sucking up all the GOOD air during its combustion and sending the oxygen-depleted air up to the top.

I am trying a couple of fixes: I have already drilled a bunch more air holes in my charcoal pan at the bottom.  I am also going to see if I can use it as a pure smoke generator (no charcoal in the charcoal pan), but put it on my rack just above the water pan.  That should indicate whether the water pan is getting in the way of air flow or the heat coming off the charcoal pan is "bad" air and cuts off combustion in the AMNPS.

This may not have too much bearing on your specific setup, but it might have a little bearing.


----------



## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

Well thanks a bunch. I believe that I am suffering a lack of oxygen. It is a charcoal grill but I am just using it for the racks and the container itself. I pulled the charcoal pan out of the bottom and have my AMNPS sitting at the bottom by itself. I will try to open up the top all the way and start at half way with the bottom and see what happens. Thank you all for responding! I didn't want to open the top vent up all the way cuz I don't want that precious smoke goin' anywhere! That may be a flawd thought though...


----------



## s2k9k (Jan 20, 2013)

Open all the vents and get some air in there. You want good airflow and you aren't going to lose precious smoke, you want the smoke to flow through the chamber and not just sit inside stagnant where it can create creosote. As long as the dust is burning you will continue to get fresh new smoke so you really won't be losing anything. Airflow is a big key to how a smoker works.


----------



## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

I now have the top opened up all the way and the bottom vents half way. It is going pretty good now! Thank you all!


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jan 20, 2013)

Krazy,

Open all vents for max airflow.

Insure your dust is dry.  Maybe a short trip to the micro-wave will help.  You can also pulverize it in a blender for long burns.  For more smoke light both ends.

deanoaz,

Placing it above a water pan will add moisture to the fuel.  Try moving it away from any moisture.  Again give it as much airflow possible.


----------



## tjohnson (Jan 20, 2013)

WOW!

You guys got him covered!!!

Make sure you start the sawdust with a torch.  Blow on the sawdust, until you get a nice cherry like on a cigar

Pecan sawdust is similar to oak, and actually burns well

Some guys will "Nuke" the sawdust, to make it super dry

Place the AMNPS right above the vent holes in the bottom, without anything in between, that will deflect the draft

Open up one of the bottom vents and all the top vents...We want the smoke to rise

36° is a little chilly for cold smoking, so you may want to think about adding some auxiliary heat.  I've used a 100 watt light bulb and covered my smoker with a blanket to hold the heat in.  You're not going to get much above 50°, but this may just be enough heat for the smoke to penetrate

Todd


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

Opening the vents absolutely was the trick! I opened everything up and got a good smoke going. You could barely see it and it was nice and blue. It burned all the way, just lighting it at one end. I filled er up again and will let it go for the evening and should be all the smoke I want. The bacons are starting to turn a nice mahogany color. I will be eating fresh bacon for breakfast! I will take some pics and show you how it turned out! Thanks again for all the tips! Glad to be part of a nice group of knowledgable people!

Jason


----------



## krazy4bakon (Jan 20, 2013)

What is an ideal temp for cold smoking? I didn't think it could be too cold. The day turned out nice and temps rose to high 50's. I don't know what temp was inside the grill but didn't know it could be too cold. Now I'm curious to know if smoking this overnight when it will be 30 degrees is a waste of sawdust.


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## mr t 59874 (Jan 21, 2013)

Krazy4Bakon said:


> What is an ideal temp for cold smoking? I didn't think it could be too cold. The day turned out nice and temps rose to high 50's. I don't know what temp was inside the grill but didn't know it could be too cold. Now I'm curious to know if smoking this overnight when it will be 30 degrees is a waste of sawdust.


Krazy,

The true definition of "Cold Smoking" is ,smoking at a internal smoker temperature of 90° or below.  The cooler the temperature the better the smoke will stick to your product.  If coarse you will want to keep it above freezing.  Using the AMNPS I smoke my bacon 24 hours a day for around three days.  Allow the bacon to rest a few days before freezing to allow the smoke to penetrate.  You should have no problem as the smoker will generate heat.

Mr. T


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## deanoaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Mr T 59874 said:


> deanoaz,
> 
> Placing it above a water pan will add moisture to the fuel.  Try moving it away from any moisture.  Again give it as much airflow possible.


I wasn't trying to use it above a water pan WITH water in it.  I was just having it on the grate above the pan with sand in it and a small amount of charcoal in the burner pan below to elevate the temperature in the smoker a little above cold smoking.

Sorry, Krazy, I wasn't trying to hijack your thread.


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## mr t 59874 (Jan 21, 2013)

OK. I understand.  Try getting it as close to the air intake as possible.


----------



## krazy4bakon (Jan 21, 2013)

Well here are a couple of pics of the finished product. I wish I had smelly vision to share the smell, as it is unbelievable! The wife is going nuts over the smell! I fried up a few pieces and it tastes equally as well with one exception. When I was rinsing the bellies to get the salt levels down, I washed my maple flavor out of it too and find that I only get a hint of maple every now and again, but the salt level is absolutely where I want it (my 1st batch was a bit too salty) and the smoke flavor is out of sight, so I guess I don't mind the maple flavor being gone. At the end of the day, it is very, very edible!

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to be posting pics of my bacon... I'm just happy its done













IMG_1681.JPG



__ krazy4bakon
__ Jan 21, 2013


















IMG_1684.JPG



__ krazy4bakon
__ Jan 21, 2013


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## krazy4bakon (Jan 21, 2013)

No worries deanoaz!


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## tjohnson (Jan 21, 2013)

Very Cool!

I've found that smoke does not rise very well in very cold temps

Adding just a little heat starts the smoke moving thru the smoker

Glad you got it working!!!

Todd


----------



## alaskanbear (Jan 21, 2013)

LOL, Funny I should of even thought to respond to this post.. Cane here with a good idea on air flow being the problem, but, alas, a day late and a dollar short..  Good advice from the master as well, and Todd, KEEP up your excellent work!!  I love all three of my smokers and just about to pull the trigger on another, tried during the big xmas sale but for some reason, page wouldnt take my order..oh well, theres always next time...lol

Rich


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## deanoaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Krazy4Bakon said:


> Well here are a couple of pics of the finished product. I wish I had smelly vision to share the smell, as it is unbelievable! The wife is going nuts over the smell! I fried up a few pieces and it tastes equally as well with one exception. When I was rinsing the bellies to get the salt levels down, I washed my maple flavor out of it too and find that I only get a hint of maple every now and again, but the salt level is absolutely where I want it (my 1st batch was a bit too salty) and the smoke flavor is out of sight, so I guess I don't mind the maple flavor being gone. At the end of the day, it is very, very edible!
> 
> Sorry if this is not the correct thread to be posting pics of my bacon... I'm just happy its done
> 
> *Somewhere in here, I ran across the idea that for crispy, smoked bacon, you need to do it in the microwave.  I did that this morning with some of my first batch and it worked.  In the frying pan it didn't get crispy.*


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## rabbithutch (Jan 22, 2013)

That is some AWESOME LOOKING BACON!

Looks like you've about got it mastered.  Thanks for the pics!


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