# Ready to throw in the towel on my Masterbuilt 40" Propane Smoker.



## diegoted (Dec 10, 2017)

I have upgraded to the Bayou Classic 0-30 PSI Adjustible Regulator   and still I cannot control my temp at all.  1/16th of an inch turn on the regulator will result in a 30 degree shift.  I might as well be chained to the damn thing.  I understand there will be flux but this is crazy.  I am really thinking of junking this smoker for a pellet smoker.   I am at a loss, anything anyone can tell me, that might me happening.  I mean the outside temp was stable at 70 degrees, I would hate to thing if I was smoking in not so prime weather the temp fluxes would be 10 times worse.   Any suggestions before I junk this thing.   Oh by the way anything I have smoked in this thing has come out FANTASTIC! Just I have to baby sit it every minute.

thx Ted


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## noboundaries (Dec 10, 2017)

Ted, what is it exactly you're babysitting and frustrated with? 

What temps are you trying to maintain?

At what temp does the smoker want to stabilize?


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## lamar (Dec 10, 2017)

0-30 psi is way too much pressure and don't give fine adjustment as you indicate. 
I solved my temperature regulation with a simple needle valve using the original regulator  as many do.  It controls my cooker temp +/- 10 degrees.


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## tx smoker (Dec 10, 2017)

I recently had a custom made T-Pit built. It's an interesting configuration where the fire box is directly under the cook chamber right in the middle....thus the "T" configuration. There are 2 large dampers, one on each side of the fire box and my heat source is 2) 6" low pressure propane burners. It took a bit of time and patience to figure this out but I discovered that the damper settings play a HUGE role in temperature control. Yes, I have a micro fine adjustable needle valve to regulate the flow of propane but did discover a significant issue. If the dampers are too far open you get too much air and even the slightest puff of breeze will add oxygen to the firebox and create a temperature spike. If the dampers are closed too far you don't get enough air for the burners to burn efficiently and temps are all over the charts. I don't know if you have played with the dampers or not but if you haven't I'd recommend it before tossing the unit. Additionally, I have no idea what the cost or quality level of your smoker is but that could be part of the problem. I understand and respect that some folks just can't drop several thousand dollars on a top quality pit. For the love of good Q, if all you someone can afford is a less expensive unit, one of the pitfalls (no pun intended) is that it'll require more attention. Regardless I'd recommend trying virtually everything you can think of, or get advice for here, before giving up. Once you get it dialed in you'll be happy that you spent the time figuring it out. If you have not already done so, you may also want to consider the purchase of a good digital thermometer. You made no mention of what type you're using. the factory therms tend to be junk and extremely inaccurate.....and a good therm is a LOT less expensive than a new pit :-)

Hoping to help a little bit,
Robert


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## diegoted (Dec 10, 2017)

noboundaries said:


> Ted, what is it exactly you're babysitting and frustrated with?
> 
> What temps are you trying to maintain?
> 
> At what temp does the smoker want to stabilize?


It doesn't matter what temperature I try and maintain, last night I was smoking tuna trying to maintain 175*


noboundaries said:


> Ted, what is it exactly you're babysitting and frustrated with?
> 
> What temps are you trying to maintain?
> 
> At what temp does the smoker want to stabilize?


It doesn't matter what temperature I try and maintain it just fluctuates. Last night I was attempting to smoke tuna which requires 175 degrees for about 2 hours hoping to get the internal temperature up to 145 degrees. No matter what I did the temperature would either climb above 190 or drop below 165 I could not keep it in between no matter what I did.


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## noboundaries (Dec 10, 2017)

Low temps are a challenge with just about any hot smoker.  Did you allow it to stabilize?  If so, where below 165 did it stop?  Where above 190F? 

I don't use propane, but I can do the exact same process with my WSM from one low temp smoke to the next and get two entirely different stabilized temps.  165F one time, 200F the next.  The heat-air-fuel triangle can be finicky no matter what smoker you are using.   

If the Q you are making tastes fantastic as you stated, my recommendation would be don't sweat the temp differences.  Get close and enjoy the results.


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## diegoted (Dec 10, 2017)

Nobounds, Yes the product came out great but that was after me never leaving the temp knob.  I don't mind putting in time but on a 10 hour brisket this could be mind numbing!  On the longer smokes the temp is not as important but on the short smokes like last night too high a temp and it cooks the fish too low and I don't get that inside temp I need to kill bacteria.

thx TEd


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## diegoted (Dec 10, 2017)

lamar said:


> 0-30 psi is way too much pressure and don't give fine adjustment as you indicate.
> I solved my temperature regulation with a simple needle valve using the original regulator  as many do.  It controls my cooker temp +/- 10 degrees.


Lamar, I went to the Bayou regulator because that is what everyone recommended after I posted the first time about my temp swings, they all swore by it.  Please give me more info on your needle and seat valve modification.   At this point I will try anything.


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## diegoted (Dec 10, 2017)

tx smoker said:


> I recently had a custom made T-Pit built. It's an interesting configuration where the fire box is directly under the cook chamber right in the middle....thus the "T" configuration. There are 2 large dampers, one on each side of the fire box and my heat source is 2) 6" low pressure propane burners. It took a bit of time and patience to figure this out but I discovered that the damper settings play a HUGE role in temperature control. Yes, I have a micro fine adjustable needle valve to regulate the flow of propane but did discover a significant issue. If the dampers are too far open you get too much air and even the slightest puff of breeze will add oxygen to the firebox and create a temperature spike. If the dampers are closed too far you don't get enough air for the burners to burn efficiently and temps are all over the charts. I don't know if you have played with the dampers or not but if you haven't I'd recommend it before tossing the unit. Additionally, I have no idea what the cost or quality level of your smoker is but that could be part of the problem. I understand and respect that some folks just can't drop several thousand dollars on a top quality pit. For the love of good Q, if all you someone can afford is a less expensive unit, one of the pitfalls (no pun intended) is that it'll require more attention. Regardless I'd recommend trying virtually everything you can think of, or get advice for here, before giving up. Once you get it dialed in you'll be happy that you spent the time figuring it out. If you have not already done so, you may also want to consider the purchase of a good digital thermometer. You made no mention of what type you're using. the factory therms tend to be junk and extremely inaccurate.....and a good therm is a LOT less expensive than a new pit :)
> 
> Hoping to help a little bit,
> Robert


Robert , I have played with the dampers a bit, they did raise and lower temps but I did not find them much use keeping temps stable.  Like you said as the air flow changed during the course of the smoke so did the inside temp.


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## diegoted (Dec 10, 2017)

A bit more info, I use a water pan inside that holds about 2 quarts of water.  I was going to add bricks but  was worried about grease build up on them?

thx for the help keep the thoughts coming.

Ted


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## pete mazz (Dec 11, 2017)

The HP regulator is set to adjust my burner to high with the needle valve wide open. Turning down the needle valve gives fine control of the gas flow .


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## muddydogs (Dec 11, 2017)

I use the same Bayou valve on my GOSM unit and it gives me great control but like you said a little movement in the knob changes the temp up to 20 degrees. I look down on the knob when adjusting the temp and line up one of the finger grove edges in the knob with something on the ground so I can visually see how much I am turning the knob which is usually less then an 1/8 inch at a time. When I'm close to my temp I barely move the knob at all.

I started my smoke yesterday at 0630 with outside temps at 18 degrees, went through the mid day rise in temps to 35 degrees and finished the smoke about 1600 last night with a temp of 30 degrees all with minimal adjustment to the gas flow. I did have a flame out around midday, seems that I have to have one every time I smoke.


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## zwiller (Dec 11, 2017)

I threw in the towel and not looking back.  6hr burn in test with MES and temps rock solid.  Night and day difference from my gasser (no needle valve).   I think Electric/MES + AMNPS is hard to beat.


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## r2 builders (Dec 11, 2017)

Just to throw some more propane on the fire...
I have a Masterbuilt 30" 2 door propane. 
I use a 0 to 10 psi valve to regulate low temps.
Even with that I could never hold low temperatures. Mostly I would get blow out from wind, even with skirts around the bottom.
So I use my offset for low temps and my propane rig for high temp smokes.

My .02 

r2


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## diegoted (Dec 13, 2017)

pete mazz said:


> View attachment 347192
> 
> 
> The HP regulator is set to adjust my burner to high with the needle valve wide open. Turning down the needle valve gives fine control of the gas flow .


So does using the needle valve take care of your low temp issues?  How is it used.  Right now I have the valve on the smoker wide open and use the Bayou controller to regulate.   thx for the help

Ted


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## zwiller (Dec 13, 2017)

I think the key to the needle valve is that you also have to plug some holes of the burner too (search for that) but then I think you lose the higher temps.  I just did my 3rd smoke with MES and AMNPS and I have no desire to even keep my gasser.  Last night I smoked for 4 hours at perfect temps and TBS without lifting a finger.


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## pete mazz (Dec 13, 2017)

diegoted said:


> So does using the needle valve take care of your low temp issues?  How is it used.  Right now I have the valve on the smoker wide open and use the Bayou controller to regulate.   thx for the help
> 
> Ted



Lowest I run on gas is 225. I have an electric element installed for col smoking . The needle valve allows for finer control of temps.


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## diegoted (Dec 13, 2017)

running an empty test anything under 250 I would flame out.


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## muddydogs (Dec 13, 2017)

We have different smokers but I can run my smoker down to less then 100 degrees with the needle valve, I do have to watch it for flame outs this low. Last weekend I smoked some snack sticks and had no problem maintaining 120 degrees for 2 hours then creeping up the temp over the next few hours to finish at 170 degrees. I would think if anything my burner has a lot more holes in it then the masterbuilt, I've had my smoker up to 500 degrees with more throttle left.

This is the needle valve I have.


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## diegoted (Dec 13, 2017)

That's the one I have too Muddy.  Like I said earlier 1/16.turn result in a 40 degree swing


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## diegoted (Dec 13, 2017)

What smoke do you have Muddy?


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## mike5051 (Dec 13, 2017)

muddydogs said:


> We have different smokers but I can run my smoker down to less then 100 degrees with the needle valve, I do have to watch it for flame outs this low. Last weekend I smoked some snack sticks and had no problem maintaining 120 degrees for 2 hours then creeping up the temp over the next few hours to finish at 170 degrees. I would think if anything my burner has a lot more holes in it then the masterbuilt, I've had my smoker up to 500 degrees with more throttle left.
> 
> This is the needle valve I have.


That is a regulator, the needle valve attaches to the regulator for finer control.


Mike


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## diegoted (Dec 13, 2017)

Mike\Muddy, how do you use the needle valve in conjunction.  I have the smokers unit wide open.  Where do you set the Regulator at?  Then where is the needle valve set at?  I understand once the regulator is set you use the needle valve for a finer control?

thx TEd


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## muddydogs (Dec 13, 2017)

The bayou I have is an adjustable high pressure regulator. Either way I have fine adjustment with the knob on the regulator. As I remember it's supposed to be a regulator with needle valve adjustment but I did the mod a while ago and don't remember all the particulars.
I have an old stainless Great Outdoors Smoky Mountain smoker which is probably 15 years old.
I don't use anything but the black knob on the regulator, I don't have a separate needle valve. If I am running low temps I set the smoker flame control to about Medium the adjust the flame with the regulator. If I need higher temps then I turn the smoker control to high and adjust the flame with the regulator.


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## muddydogs (Dec 13, 2017)

Just did a quick search and found a couple old threads that I found when I was looking to do the needle valve mod and from what I could find the adjustable regulator I used is a regulator with a needle valve.


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## muddydogs (Dec 13, 2017)

diegoted said:


> That's the one I have too Muddy.  Like I said earlier 1/16.turn result in a 40 degree swing



Is there a chance that you have a bad regulator? Mine is touchy but not 40 degrees in 1/16" touchy. I probably turn mine 1/8" to 1/4" when making small adjustments.


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## mike5051 (Dec 13, 2017)

I leave everything wide open and use the needle valve for control.  I don't have a propane smoker, I am controlling the gas for either a crawfish/crab jet burner, or a smaller turkey fryer/wok burner.  The needle valve lets me control the burn with no issues.  Sorry if my info doesn't apply to propane smokers.

Mike


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## diegoted (Dec 13, 2017)

pete mazz said:


> View attachment 347192
> 
> 
> The HP regulator is set to adjust my burner to high with the needle valve wide open. Turning down the needle valve gives fine control of the gas flow .


 Pete so is your smoker turned up all the way as well as the bayou regulator?  So that the needle valve controls all flow?

thx Ted


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## pete mazz (Dec 14, 2017)

diegoted said:


> Pete so is your smoker turned up all the way as well as the bayou regulator?  So that the needle valve controls all flow?
> 
> thx Ted



I built my smoker. It doesn't have a control knob, just the regulator and needle valve connected to a turkey fryer pipe burner. With the needle valve wide open I set the regulator to get the burner running pretty high and use the needle valve after that . It likes to run ~250 comfortably which is fine for me.


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## muddydogs (Dec 14, 2017)

diegoted said:


> Pete so is your smoker turned up all the way as well as the bayou regulator?  So that the needle valve controls all flow?
> 
> thx Ted



A couple points which probably aren't a factor but worth mentioning. Are you opening the propane tank valve all the way? Have you tried another propane tank and had the same results? 
I have gotten some weird fluctuation with a freshly filled propane tank but once the tank gets used for 15 to 30 minutes it usually settles down. There has been times when I have had to remove the propane tank from the hose to release some weird pressure before the burner acted right.


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## diegoted (Dec 14, 2017)

Yes both valve on tank and smoker all open all the way.  Yes I have had the same problem using different tanks and a different smoker, although the first smoker only had the original regulator.   I guess I was a tad confused after more research I have concluded the bayou regulator I use with the adjustment knob ((("IS a needle valve")))?  therefore a separate needle valve only will not help my situation?   So now I have read somewhere that plugging some of my burner holes will help stabilize the temps?  Man this is a lot of driving me nutso!!! LOL  Thanks for all the help guys.


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## muddydogs (Dec 14, 2017)

Yes the Bayou regulator we are using is a needle valve. I would think a second needle valve would be a pain to deal with, heck that would make 4 knobs to turn to get gas to flow to the smoker.
Plugging some of the burner holes will reduce the amount of flame coming out of the burner basically reducing the burner BTU's and should make it easier to control the heat. Depending on how many you plug you might loose some top end temperatures. If I was going to plug burner holes I would start with a 1/2 dozen or so and check my temps then work up a few holes at a time until I hit the magic number.
From what I have seen some guys are just running short self tapping screws into the burner holes to cap them off.


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## diegoted (Dec 14, 2017)

thx Muddy!  I was also thinking on low flow I have a lot of flame outs when I am trying to smoke at lower temps.   My smoker has legs and the burner is not sealed underneath as there is a small gap 1\8-1\16 between the firebox and burner.  I wonder if sealing this with high temp silicone will help with flameouts, which will allow the lower temps?


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## jasinil2006 (Dec 19, 2017)

I have a Masterbuilt 2-door vertical propane smoker and I'm also have a heck of a time maintaining even temps (e.g., 225). I've modified my smoker by adding door gaskets, skirts around the base to protect against the flame blowing out, a cast iron pan for wood chips, the Bayou regulator and I even blocked about 1/3 of the holes in the burner with small brass screws as others have suggested. I've had this smoker for about a year now, and I have a very difficult time maintaining anything close to a stable temp. The mods I made have pretty much eliminated the flame-outs; I think the skirting and especially plugging the burner holes were most helpful.

About the best I can do is slow the rate at which temps ping-pong up and down. Rarely can I go more than 30-45 minutes without adjusting it, and often it requires more frequent fiddling. Like Ted, I am often quite happy with the outcome when I smoke, but this thing requires constant babysitting. I have a decent remote thermometer (a Maverick 732) and were it not for that, I'd have to check the smoker every 15 minutes to make sure it wouldn't be getting too hot or too cool. 

I will probably try adding a separate needle valve, even though it seems the Bayou regulator already has one, but I'm also about fed up with this situation. If I ever get another smoker, I think I'm going to shell out enough to get something with a thermostatic control so I run the smoker and still get other stuff done.


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## zwiller (Dec 20, 2017)

Maybe it's considered cheating (electric) but I just don't see why everyone continues throwing money at the gasser.  I took the risk for you :D  I took the time and money that I planned to spend to mod my gasser and tried an MES and extremely happy I did and I am one picky SOB.  MES + AMNPS is basically set and forget perfect temps and perfect TBS.  Night and day from gas.  I am gonna be smoking TONS more than ever and plan to do things I thought I would never be able to do.


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## biteme7951 (Dec 20, 2017)

The pressure regulator controls the PRESSURE coming out of the tank. The needle valve controls the VOLUME of gas going to the burner.  The 2 go hand in hand.....more pressure=less volume, less pressure=more volume. Once you get it dialed in you will have a better handle on maintaining a consistent temp. It doesn't take much of a flame to heat up a smoker to 165 degrees and flameouts can happen. Protect it from wind as best you can and keep top vents fully open which will require a little more flame causing fewer flameouts. I have a GOSM 40" propane unit i've had for 20 years and it will hold +/- 5 degrees once I get it set up using a non adjustable regulator and the knob on the front of it (basically a needle valve)....provided the wind or outdoor temp doesn't change much during the smoke.

Barry.


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## mike5051 (Dec 20, 2017)

Thanks for that explanation Barry!

Mike


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## jasinil2006 (Mar 26, 2018)

jasinil2006 said:


> I have a Masterbuilt 2-door vertical propane smoker and I'm also have a heck of a time maintaining even temps (e.g., 225). I've modified my smoker by adding door gaskets, skirts around the base to protect against the flame blowing out, a cast iron pan for wood chips, the Bayou regulator and I even blocked about 1/3 of the holes in the burner with small brass screws as others have suggested. I've had this smoker for about a year now, and I have a very difficult time maintaining anything close to a stable temp. The mods I made have pretty much eliminated the flame-outs; I think the skirting and especially plugging the burner holes were most helpful.
> 
> About the best I can do is slow the rate at which temps ping-pong up and down. Rarely can I go more than 30-45 minutes without adjusting it, and often it requires more frequent fiddling. Like Ted, I am often quite happy with the outcome when I smoke, but this thing requires constant babysitting. I have a decent remote thermometer (a Maverick 732) and were it not for that, I'd have to check the smoker every 15 minutes to make sure it wouldn't be getting too hot or too cool.
> 
> I will probably try adding a separate needle valve, even though it seems the Bayou regulator already has one, but I'm also about fed up with this situation. If I ever get another smoker, I think I'm going to shell out enough to get something with a thermostatic control so I run the smoker and still get other stuff done.



UPDATE: I added a simple needle valve and since then, I have had much better luck maintaining steady temps. I still need to adjust gas flow occasionally, but for the most part, the smoker temps hold pretty steady. I've come to conclude that the valve that came with my Bayou regulator is junk. I now tape it in full 'open' position and use the needle valve to regulate gas flow. 

I give the Bayou regulator/needle valve two thumbs down for its inability to deliver consistent gas flow. On the plus side, I'm much happier with my smoker and its performance!


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## mike5051 (Mar 26, 2018)

Great news!  Thanks for the update.

Mike


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