# **Cures and Curing**



## pineywoods (Dec 15, 2009)

With all the newer people starting to use cure I had someone PM me with some concerns last night. Seems he saw someone post questionable methods and thought maybe we needed to post a warning so

There are different kinds of cure such as Prague #1 and Prague #2 which are the same as Instacure #1 and Instacure #2. Now there are differences between the #1 cures and the #2 cures and they are not interchangeable.
There is a line of Morton's cures such as Tender Quick, Sugar Cure, and Smoke Flavored Sugar Cure.
There is also High Mountain's cure and several others that I've seen. *Please be advised all cures are not interchangeable as far as rates of use and times and even the cure type in some cases. *Please know what you are using and the proper amount to use this stuff is safe when used correctly but can be very dangerous when used improperly if you have a question find out the answer before you use it. Its great to see so many people getting into making bacon and sausage but lets do it safely


----------



## cajunsmoke13 (Dec 15, 2009)

Agreed.  Good post Jerry.  I knew nothing about cures and curing...Learned it all here on this website.  Lots of people here who know what they are doing when it comes to cures and curing.  I'm not one.  Know the basics, but I am learning..Another good source is Rytek Kutas' book called Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing...


----------



## hog warden (Dec 15, 2009)

Good information/reminder from Pineywoods. And of course the cure contains sodium nitrite, which is added to prevent botulism poisoning. Botulism spores being present almost everywhere, but mainly produce the deadly poison toxins in moist, oxygen free temps between 40* and 140*. Perfect conditions like this are found in meat smokers. Smoked sausage and meats are good, but not to die for. If you can't/didn't cure it, don't smoke it.

The best analogy I've ever heard for this was to remember the movie "The Ten Commandments" with Charlton Heston as Moses. If you remember when Death came to the city and those who painted the goat's blood over the door were passed by. Think of nitrite in the cure as being like the goats blood. Use it and Death will pass you by.


----------



## rivet (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks for posting that! It is important information to know.


----------



## shooterrick (Dec 15, 2009)

I agree Jerry.  I was concerned some time back to hear someone was using cure 2 in place of cure 1 or tenderquick.  Follow the uses of each cure and measure correctly.  Unless you do long climate controlled cures for some sausages and hams and have an understanding of enzyme uses and such it is best in my opinion to keep things simple and stay away from cure 2.  Someday I may venture into more complicated cures but for me TQ works for my CB and smoked sausages.  YUM


----------



## pineywoods (Dec 15, 2009)

See now theres part of what I'm talking about Rick is using Tender Quick as does RonP and lots of others Desertilites and I and lots of others use Instacure #1 mostly. Both cures will do the job and do it well but the amounts of each cure are different and not interchangeable but yet either cure will do the job just fine. Thats why if your reading a recipe KNOW which cure is being used or use the cure you know the directions for. Also I think most people omit salt in the recipe when using Morton's cures and they don't when using Instacure.


----------



## jaxgatorz (Dec 15, 2009)

Darn, does this mean i need to make my own sausage now? Or can i just show up every 6 months and get some that you made?


----------



## morkdach (Dec 15, 2009)

thanks for this great post i've been making bbb with high mountain and go by instructions. now i want to get into sausage and read lots of posts paying not alot of attention to the cures.
now i will rethink and reread on this subject before i pursue


----------



## DanMcG (Dec 15, 2009)

Great thread Jerry, thanks for bring up the subject.


----------



## ga pine needle (Dec 15, 2009)

Timely, Tested and Trustworthy!
GREAT WORK!


----------



## old poi dog (Dec 15, 2009)

Great Advice from Pineywoods. I'm just starting out on Buckboard Bacon and read through a lot of material here. His advice sums it up though..


----------



## desertlites (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks Jerry for bringing this up again,It's time for a refresher course and a heads up to all that use cures.Please people learn about your cures of choice,as Jerry stated they can hurt you and the people that eat your foods.I have also read type from persons that have mis stated there intentions of the use of there cure -or just total boners in mis measureing cures.Some I have been able to PM and correct-but not all.I have read casual type from some saying 1 can't over cure,meaning as in takeing a loin 14 days instead of 10,the unexpereinced might see that the other way as in useing twice as much cure to shorten the time.I have been asked by more than 1 if they could do that!So we need to be careful in how we talk about useing cure.When I make cured meats I weigh the pieces-and measure out the ingreadents I need and the cure for each weight and add to a bowl-I double and triple check myself alot-nothing like measure twice cut once.As Jerry said theres more and more getting into bacon and sausagemaking which is really a good thing-I as others smile reading the excitment after the first batches-knowing just what those feelings are-but in the excitment of this wonderful hobby it's not hard to overlook things from time to time.So Everyone Read up on cures and cureing and WOW those around you in a safe way. thanks for reading


----------



## mballi3011 (Dec 16, 2009)

yes Jerry thanks for the new and much needed infomation. I always check in with the folks here before I try anything new. You folks here know and I want to learn. Thanks again.


----------



## ronp (Dec 16, 2009)

Very good thread, thanks jerry. I have also noticed some of the inaccuracies.

All I can add is that's the reason I use Tender Quick. The directions on the bag are very simple and easy to follow. All you need is a TBS for most cures, or a measuring cup for a pickle. Your meat is already weighed when you bought it. Most people do not have a good enough scale to measure some of the cures #1 or # 2 to be 
accurate. If you are making sausage it is a must to have a good scale that weighs in grams IMHO.

I know I pay mostly for salt with TQ but I am OK with that for the convience and saftey.

Thanks again, and this should be a sticky I think.


----------



## pignit (Dec 16, 2009)

Every bag of cure I've bought has very specific instructions on it's use. If you get ahold of cure that doesn't have specific instructions on how to use it... don't. If you don't understand the instructions... don't use it until you get more information and know what your doing is correct. Using cure has opened up a whole new area of preparing meat for me and I love it, but I'm very precise in my measurements. If you don't understand something... stay away from it until you have a full understanding of using it safely.


----------



## pops6927 (Dec 16, 2009)

As Ronp said, buying a good scale is paramount to accurately calculate all your ingredients and meats.  I bought one from the internet and it has proven to be a good one, see my thread on reproportioning sausage seasonings, 'Sausage Prep':

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...eproportioning

At that time there were relatively few electronic scales available, but now they flourish, and Cabela's and other outfitters offer different models that would suit just about anyone.  I do convert most all my calculations to grams as it's a much smaller unit of measure and you can get a more accurate precision that way, too.


----------



## nwdave (Dec 16, 2009)

Dang, just when I thought I was getting a handle on the equipment side of the house, here we go and find another gotta have (I have a very nice collection of gotta have's, thank you very much
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





) but this one item is definitely an excellent add, and the price is quite reasonable, though I think I need only the 35.  Uh, let's see, Christmas is covered, uh, hey, we got an anniversary coming up (45th for those who are curious).  Thanks for the lead.


----------



## richtee (Dec 16, 2009)

FYI... I have done several trials on the proper WEIGHT (Actually mass, but that's another story) of Morton's curing products, TQ specifically, but I believe they are all used in the same quantities-
Per 1 Lb ground meat/jerky- 6.25 g -1.5 level teaspoons
Per 1 Lb Whole muscle meats 12.5 g - 1 level Tablespoon

Used as a rub, or in the jerky/ground case, mixed thoroughly into meat.

Using this formula it's easy to multiply out amounts by weight for different amounts of meat.

Keep safe and read the directions.


----------



## hoser (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks for a very important thread Jerry...I have noticed the errors as well..would it be a good idea to make this a "sticky" in the sausage and bacon forums?


----------



## ol' smokey (Dec 16, 2009)

Great info from all. IMO anyone messing with cures, meaning Prague or Insta cure be it #1 or #2 should educate them self. These two publications are available online or in book stores. They have a wealth of information and are invaluable to me. Just my 2 cents and qview.


----------



## fire it up (Dec 16, 2009)

Great idea Jerry.
Just because it is a powdered cure doesn't mean it is the same.


----------



## sqwib (Dec 18, 2009)

Why would a pound of ground require less than a pound of whole muscle?
I thought a pound was a pound.


----------



## richtee (Dec 18, 2009)

A pound IS a pound, the world around. Heh.

A pound of black powder pressed into a brick will burn quite impressivly. A pound ground to a fine powder could... well, go BOOM. All about reaction rates and surface area.

In ground meat less cure is required because of the cure contacting practically ALL the meat surface at once, not requiring much time for the cure to take place, and therefore less time needed as well. 

Curing chems degrade into nitrous oxide- this is actually what does the "curing". It it a reaction that happens over time when exposed to moisture and oxygen. First the nitrate will convert to nitrite, then to the No3 oxide.

Long cured products use more of the NITRATE form, because over time it continues to contribute nitrites and then No3 to the meat, allowing a long term curing process. Prague#2.

Shorter term uses more of the nitrite form. (Prague#1) And if the meat is ground, less of that form is required to complete the cure.

Also, this is mainly applicable to Morton's TQ, which has BOTH the nitrite and nitrate components. Therefore in the quicker curing thin cuts/ground meats, you want to decrease the nitrates, as they are just not needed.

When injecting whole muscle meats with cure, you must add the total amount of cure injected and subtract that from the dry you use for the exterior rub. And when injected, it's much safer for the large cuts because it's going to complete the cure quicker..avoiding "bone sour" and other bad things that could happen before the cure penetrates to the interior.

Also Morton's also recommends 1.5 teaspoons/Lb ground meat...


----------



## sqwib (Dec 18, 2009)

I just did a bunch of sliced jerky last night at a rate of 1 table tenderquick per lb, will it be ok with that much cure. I didn't know that.
So what you are saying is that If I slice meat for jerky I can use 1.5 teaspoons per lb.

Please tell me I didn't screw up my jerky.
Will rinsing help its been curing for about 22 hours


----------



## richtee (Dec 19, 2009)

rinse and perhaps a short soak will help. You will find it salty, and perhaps notice "nitrate burn" (White, dryer areas) without the rinse. After rinsing you could fry up a small hunk and check for salt- if it's too much soak in clean cool water for a half hour and check again. It's not severly overdone however.

If you do soak, consider adding some dry spice (Not with cure of course) back to the meat as you will lose some of that in the process.


----------



## sqwib (Dec 19, 2009)

Richtee, thanks for the headsup.
I Drained and rinsed the meat let ice cold water run in the dish of meat for about 15 minutes after a 15 minute soak.
Then I fried a piece to test for salt and the salt taste was acceptable. although it will be increased when the meat is dried, I think it should be ok.
I added the same spices less the TQ and added a cup of apple juice.
Placed back in the fridge last night and will dry this afternoon.

Its crazy because everywhere on this forum it says FOLLOW THE CURE DIRECTIONS TO THE LETTER.

Well I did follow them and lo and behold, better advice.


THANKS FOR SAVING MY MEAT.


----------



## rambler (Dec 19, 2009)

*We also need to remember that the environment we use for meats cured with nitrates at about 42° F - 46° F (6° - 8°  C) temperatures.  Before nitrate can release nitrite (the real curing agent) it  has to react with bacteria that have to be present in solution.  Putting nitrate  into refrigerator kept solution (below 40° F) will inhibit  development of bacteria and they will not be able to react with nitrate. Sodium  nitrite works well at refrigerator temperatures.*


----------



## sqwib (Dec 19, 2009)

So how is one supposed to cure jerky? I don't feel comfortable leaving meat sitting at room temps overnight


----------



## DanMcG (Dec 19, 2009)

Your TQ besides nitrates also has nitrites which will do there thing in a refrigerator climate of below 40° the nitrates be like a secondery defence when the meat gets warmed up.


----------



## rambler (Dec 19, 2009)

I try to keep mine above 40 degrees.


----------



## sqwib (Dec 19, 2009)

So curing in the fridge is OK at 42 - 44 degrees. But the cure works better above 40.
Would it be better to cure the meat 4-6 hours at room temp then store overnight in fridge


----------



## DanMcG (Dec 19, 2009)

Your frig should be below 40° and while using a nitrite for a cure the
recommended curing temperature is between 36º and 40º , any less than 36º and the process might come to a stop and going above 40º will allow bacteria to multiply rapidly which will increase the chances for spoilage.
I don't know a reason why you would want to leave it at room temperature for a few hours.


----------



## desertlites (Dec 19, 2009)

SQWIB  It seems your not understanding the difference between sodium nitrites and sodium nitrates-with the mortons cure U use it's ok to be cureing in the fridge.and like Dan my fridge is below 40* also. if U re read Ramblers post he is talking about sodium nitrates. that is used Along with nitrites to DRY cure-as in without refridgeration cooking or smoking.trying to learn about the use of cures in a forum like this can be confusing-your best bet is to clear your mind and google cures and sodium nitrates and sodium nitrites and learn from there.I don't use your type of cure for the fact that it is known to make meats to salty.


----------



## sqwib (Dec 19, 2009)

OK this is my procedure 1.5 teaspoons per pound of TQ cure in fridge 24-36 hours....... is that OK.
Oh by the way finished up the jerky and it was good.


----------



## richtee (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm very glad to hear that. Carry on, soldier  :{)


----------



## rambler (Dec 20, 2009)

Well stated Desertlites!!  There is a lot of information on this topic on morton's web site.


----------



## sqwib (Dec 20, 2009)

Will do guys.
Thanks for all the info.


----------



## mudduck (Feb 20, 2010)

i 'l like to know the best way to cures wet or dry
 on cb bacon and bb bacon how long to cures
never try curing but i'm uh fixing too
going to uesd TQ
wish me luck


----------

