# Looking to get an electric smoker for cold smoking



## freakynorm (Dec 5, 2014)

I already have a homemade UDS I use for hot smoking but have wanted to get an electric smoker for cold smoking and making jerky and smoked fish, etc.

I am looking for something easy, no mussing and fussing, something that does't require a bunch of mods to get it up to snuff, something that can get up and go right out of the box. I am a beginner to doing cold smoking and want something that isn't akin to a science experiment to try and get it to do what I need.

I was thinking of spending $500 max including any accessories that might be needed. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 5, 2014)

If you can find a first Gen 20070311 Masterbuilt MES40" you will be good to go. You can greatly increase the ease of use with an AMNPS Pellet smoke generators as well...JJ

http://www.amazenproducts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AMNPS5X8


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## sb59 (Dec 5, 2014)

If you're sure that's all you are ever going to do pick one of these that suits your budget, you can't go wrong. But if you ever decide you want to get into hot smoking you'll have to upgrade.

http://www.smokehouseproducts.com/


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## themule69 (Dec 5, 2014)

I agree with the 1st generation MES 40 and a AMNPS. You will have money left for any other toys you might want or for some meat. You can also cold smoke in your UDS. I have both a UDS and a MES 40 I have done cheese bacon and other cold smokes in both.

Cheese in the MES













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Bacon in the MES













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Bacon in the MES













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Bacon in the UDS













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Cheese in the UDS













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Cold smoke in the UDS













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Divorced AMNPS box for the UDS













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Smoke entering the UDS













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My UDS with divorced AMNPS box.













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Happy smoken.

David


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## freakynorm (Dec 5, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions. How do I know which generation the MES is when I am looking online?


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 5, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. How do I know which generation the MES is when I am looking online?


The latest generation has the flush mounted Controller up front and the model # ends in 12. The 20070311 has a pyramid shaped controller in the back on top.

*Second Generation...Not so good...*








*First generation...Good...*


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## dave from mesa (Dec 5, 2014)

Gen1 has the controller on top at the back. Gen2 has the controller at the front near the door.

Good luck in your choice and happy smoken.

dave

Damn too slow again.

Good going Chef J


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## link (Dec 5, 2014)

Good question. How do you know if it is a First Gen? I am looking at this on CL as it is $100 - Masterbuilt 30" electric smoker model #20070910 is this a good deal? Too small?


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## freakynorm (Dec 5, 2014)

They just dropped the price of the first gen 30" by $30 which is making it very attractive to me right now. That would leave me with enough money to add on the cold smoker attachment and some other goodies.


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## freakynorm (Dec 5, 2014)

I pulled the trigger and got the 30" 1st gen with no window for $129 with free shipping. Merry xmas to me!


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## themule69 (Dec 5, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> I pulled the trigger and got the 30" 1st gen with no window for $129 with free shipping. Merry xmas to me!


Congratulations! I would take a look at the AMNPS instead of the cold smoke attachment.

Happy smoken.

David


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## freakynorm (Dec 5, 2014)

What would the main benefit be going AMNPS vs the specific cold smoker attachment? Do these enclosed units have enough air and flow to keep the AMNPS without modding or drilling extra holes?


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## themule69 (Dec 5, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> What would the main benefit be going AMNPS vs the specific cold smoker attachment? Do these enclosed units have enough air and flow to keep the AMNPS without modding or drilling extra holes?


The AMNPS was first designed for the MES. You don't have to do any mods. The AMNPS is about a third of the price. For what you save you can buy a Thermometer or pellets or more meat.

Happy smoken.

David


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## daricksta (Dec 5, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> I pulled the trigger and got the 30" 1st gen with no window for $129 with free shipping. Merry xmas to me!


You kidding me? A MES 30 Gen 1 for $129? I wasn't as patient so 2.5 years ago I bought mine (without the window) on Amazon for $189. Give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back. It's one great smoker and you got a great deal.


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## toejam (Dec 5, 2014)

Great deal, since I just pulled the plug on Amazon at $159.30.  It's seasoning outside right now.


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## foamheart (Dec 6, 2014)

I have the MES30 and 40 first generation and the AMP's as well as the Masterbuilt cold smoker attachment.

I got my MES 40 with the cold smoke attachment direct from Masterbuilt both at a substantial discount. I really like them.

The MES40 operates a bit different than the MES30. The cold smoker attachment is most diffinatley diffrent.

I have (with regulation of the vent), gotten 18 hours of smoke with the AMPs but I think its advertized for 12. Where as the Masterbuilt is 4 to 6 hours. I won't bore you with temps because I have the pellet tray vice the dust which is preferred for straight cold smokes.

AMP's puts out sizably less smoke and lasts longer, the masterbuilt is auxillary smoker on steroids!

BUT when cold smoking unless really cold outside, 4 hours is all I am going to "cold' smoke at one sitting. Did I mention where I live we can go years without any freezing weather at all? The AMPs (pellet) does require heat in the box to draw a draft, or will go out, or you must do a modification to the box. That is why the dust is the preferred method.

Both aux smokers will require some tweaking to be useful. I have not used the masterbuilt with the MES30, That would be a load of smoke. I have used both my AMPs and the Master so far on sausages and andouille, been too warm to do bacon yet.

Mine both cost the same basically, both will require a bit of a learning curve but about equal, the AMP or dust tube uses pellets/dust easily obtainable from Amazin in multiple flavors where the Masterbuilt uses chips (or in my case pecan shells) readily available anywhere but normally with a limited variety. Both folks have great customer service.

IF you have anything specific about the masterbuilt cold smoker, I'd be glad to try and help. The AMPs, well there are plenty of folks here more knowldgeable but I can try. Its not brain surgery, I mean the old tin can sit works fine too. LOL


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 6, 2014)

Quote: The AMPs (pellet) does require heat in the box to draw a draft, or will go out, or you must do a modification to the box. That is why the dust is the preferred method.

Hey Foam, This is the first I have seen this. I have Cold Smoked Bacon, MES off, in the summer and had no issue making smoke for 10+ hours. Have you had issues making bacon in hotter weather? The Salt and Cure should more than keep your meat safe. I have never had an issue in any air temp. Just curious...JJ


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## inkjunkie (Dec 6, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> I pulled the trigger and got the 30" 1st gen with no window for $129 with free shipping. Merry xmas to me!


Just wondering where you found it for that price??


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## foamheart (Dec 6, 2014)

I have only had some concerns with chicken sausage. But like all else, I believe in cleaniness and being careful. It would kill me to make something and cause illness or grief to another. Foam's rule of thumb, clorox is for the win!

Here we are lucky to get a week or two of weather cold enough for me to even want to turn a furnace on. So cold (warm) smoking its 4 to 6 max, then back in the reefer till down to 37 again. Many years it doens't get cold enough to even kill off the bugs and mosquitos.

I might stretch my rules some times, but only when doing for my own consumption. And I would never chance here saying I did it and some one then taking it as ok to try it also. Its like my raw smoked andouille I love so much. I know it will always be frozen till it is cooked, its cured, but I would never suggest it to another. I just try really hard to insure everything I suggest is 100% by the book and the good folks at the FDA are with smiles on their face.

Untill lately I used the MES30 and the AMP's to "warm" smoke. Cold smoking was out of the question unless I got one of the dust tubes. No heat, no draft, no draft , no air, no air, no smoke. It was Ok because I was learning. I do prefer the "Warm smoke" or "Bearcarver" method. BUT you had better be comfortable with your unit to do it and maintain those low temps for any long period.  Folks here sure helpped alot with my education, which I appreciate and hope to pass on to others, safely.

Back to the question, yes. If there is no heat in the either of my boxes, since not modified, a wide open vent and a slightly disengaged reloader tube will not furnish enough air for mine.













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There simply is not enough circulation and my pellets will slowly smolder out. Just as when trying to use chips at the same time as the AMPs, there isn't enough air either. Maybe I just have tempermental boxes and don't play well with others...LOL

I love my MES, but the suction is only 3 tiny little holes in the reload tube and I keep my MES closed













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My AMPs needs a good circulation. Heck mine will only burn half the time when everything is right and I have it on the two bar rack on the bottom.













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I finially started using a rack on top pf the fire box which was directly in the middle of the air flow from the reloader inlet to the vent on top. Then I have had no problems.













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Its just a learning curve, you have to learn what works best in your smoker, then figure out why so you can do it again. And thats terrible because then you just have to smoke more to figure it out. </insert big grin here>

I have a couple a sides frozen in the garage because its only December, its supposedly getting in the 80's tomorrow. If you believe weathermen. Childhood memories, Christmas carroled more in cut offs and t-shirts than in a jacket.

Don't get me wrong I use the AMPs a bunch, and look forward to mastering the Masterbuilt cold smoker too! Everything has a place and a purpose.

Freaky, please except my appoligies for the hijack. Just a suggestion, you might check Masterbuilt for their in house deals on units and acessories also.

Household smokers - There are more here, these just get all the usage here lately,  <right to left> Old "Redi-Smok" analog smoker (with charcoal on top), MES30, Masterbuilt Cold Smoke attachment, MES 40, Medium sized pipe pit. There is most definately an AMPs here, probably inside a smoker. LOL.. this is the electric section......













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## freakynorm (Dec 7, 2014)

Hijack away. I need to learn as much as possible before I get started. Any suggestions on instructions/techniques for cold smoking/warm smoking? I see a lot of people making stuff on here but would like step by step info and extra details.

I checked the Masterbuilt website, they don't seem to sell stuff direct, unless I am looking at the wrong site or something.

I don't feel like paying extra for a stand. Will any solid structure work as a stand/riser for this unit? Does the bottom not get hot enough to melt stuff, etc?


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## daveomak (Dec 7, 2014)

Below is one of the best descriptions I have seen on "Cold Smokin'"....

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/meat-smoking/cold-smoking


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## foamheart (Dec 7, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> Hijack away. I need to learn as much as possible before I get started. Any suggestions on instructions/techniques for cold smoking/warm smoking? I see a lot of people making stuff on here but would like step by step info and extra details.
> 
> I checked the Masterbuilt website, they don't seem to sell stuff direct, unless I am looking at the wrong site or something.
> 
> I don't feel like paying extra for a stand. Will any solid structure work as a stand/riser for this unit? Does the bottom not get hot enough to melt stuff, etc?


Use other's experiences as a guide and make it work for you. Look for folks also that live in your region, they will have experience with the same weather conditions you'll see, then expand out. You'll also learn the folks around here who will cook and smoke like you will want to. So you'll look forward to their posts, don't just lock in on a specific search, for instance, I learned how to "warm" smoke my sausages from Bearcarver's bacon posts. The search engine can get very specific if you ask it nicely. The forums break things down great. A little trick, look and see who the moderator is for a specific section and you know immediately they are dang knowledgable about that topic. You want to make sausage, you see that Boykjo is the moderator, send him a /PM, introduce yourself, and ask his help at his convience. Folks are all here to learn and help others at the same time. Boykjo will either direct you to the guru of the topic or help you himself if he has the time. Watch the posts on the boards, you'll find a group that you'll fall in with and they'll support you also. Always try to do your homework though before the questions. People apprecaite that, and will usually give even more advice when they realize you have a simple knowledge already.

It may just be me, but it seems you see alot more cold smoking in the north vice the south. Maybe a weather thing, maybe I am all wrong.

Drop a dime, Masterbuilt has an 800 number. Their site is a joke (they don't even show the cold smoker), as I assume they try to sell thru a distribution network. They offer little or no help in the literature you'll get with the smoker. Hey its Chinese, its the inexpensive way to get your feet wet (Odd how the world turns when I was a kid it was the inexpensive Japanese transistor radios we all joked about). BUT Masterbuilt's customer service is out frickin standing! I wish AMAZIN and Masterbuilt sold everything so I could get great customer service all the time.

There is a million things that will work for a stand, go to a used furnature store get a end table or a bed side table. Heck just some cider blocks from the hardware store work. Biggest thing remember to put it in a place that covered from the elements. You can see mine is on a large cooking grate I built. Any stationary oblect about the right height and its a plus if it is not combustable. LOL

Most important remember there is no one all perfect way to do anything and the most farout ideas maybe yet hold something you'll need or like. Smoking is about learning you smoker and making it do amazing things the way you want to do them. Not every idea will work and some will surprize even the guru's here. Enjoy learning and have fun. Smoking is not cooking, sure you can cook with it, but its about taking your time, not getting excited, having patience, thinking about it. Its about relaxing then the most amzing food is prepared.

LOL.... BTW you'll also learn who's long winded and rambles and who can simple answer a question..... LOL


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## freakynorm (Dec 7, 2014)

inkjunkie said:


> Just wondering where you found it for that price??


It was on Amazon.com during one of their Lightning Deal specials.













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## themule69 (Dec 7, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> I have the MES30 and 40 first generation and the AMP's as well as the Masterbuilt cold smoker attachment.
> 
> I got my MES 40 with the cold smoke attachment direct from Masterbuilt both at a substantial discount. I really like them.
> 
> ...


Foam I use my AMNPS in my MES40 to cold smoke. I can get the tray to burn from end to end wihtout a problem. I do turn on the MES for about 60 seconds to get air flowing. I pull my chip loader out about 1" farther than what you have in your picture. As long as I start with dry chips and take the time to get it going good it is great.

Happy smoken.

David


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## daricksta (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Quote: The AMPs (pellet) does require heat in the box to draw a draft, or will go out, or you must do a modification to the box. That is why the dust is the preferred method.
> 
> Hey Foam, This is the first I have seen this. I have Cold Smoked Bacon, MES off, in the summer and had no issue making smoke for 10+ hours. Have you had issues making bacon in hotter weather? The Salt and Cure should more than keep your meat safe. I have never had an issue in any air temp. Just curious...JJ


I've had the same experience with cold smoking in the MES 30 with the power off using the AMNPS. I've only cold smoked cheeses in cold weather and at night got plenty of smoke--more than plenty actually. The burning wood pellets give off enough heat to soften or even slightly melt the cheese so I place a couple of half gallon milk jugs filled with frozen water inside the MES at the start of the smoke.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 7, 2014)

Check this tread out. There are quite a few stands to give you ideas...JJ

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/87723/mes-hot-mods-related-mods-or-creations


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## freakynorm (Dec 7, 2014)

I heard that burning dust in the AMNPS works better keeping the temps as low as possible. My next question is, how long does a 1lb of dust and 1lb of pellets last? I am trying to figure out how much to order.


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## daricksta (Dec 7, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> I heard that burning dust in the AMNPS works better keeping the temps as low as possible. My next question is, how long does a 1lb of dust and 1lb of pellets last? I am trying to figure out how much to order.


I can only speak to burning pellets in the AMNPS. Many times I've smoked about 4-6 hours and used up only a row and a half of pellets. I typically fill no more than two rows unless I'm going to be smoking something for over 6 hours. But then it all depends on smoker temp and airflow.


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## themule69 (Dec 7, 2014)

I figure 10 hours per LB. They are advertised as 11 hours or so per load and a load is about 15 OZ. So it will go a little longer if it doesn't flare up or whatever. It just keeps the math simple for me.

Happy smoken.

David


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## foamheart (Dec 7, 2014)

There has been a mistake somewhere, I have not had a problem with AMPs in my 30 or 40. When I changed the placement in the 30 it works fine. I have not used it but twice with the 40. Both times before the chips. My problem was you can not use it at the same time as the chips. So far it has been and either/or, not enough air for both. The cold smoker chokes it out.  I have not yet been able in either unit to grab a draft when the box is cold with the AMPs, the cold smoker, yes.

I did figure one point out on the last andouille smoke. I was using the cold smoke attachment, even without the smoke it doesn't port enough air while closed up to support the AMPs. IF I open the cold smoker's top it gets enough air flow when the cold smoker is not smoking but still attached.

Again, if I have slandered the AMPs in any way, it was not my intent. I have used it much more that the cold smoker. I have warm smoked with it, but not cold smoked.


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## daricksta (Dec 8, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> There has been a mistake somewhere, I have not had a problem with AMPs in my 30 or 40. When I changed the placement in the 30 it works fine. I have not used it but twice with the 40. Both times before the chips. My problem was you can not use it at the same time as the chips. So far it has been and either/or, not enough air for both. The cold smoker chokes it out.  I have not yet been able in either unit to grab a draft when the box is cold with the AMPs, the cold smoker, yes.
> 
> I did figure one point out on the last andouille smoke. I was using the cold smoke attachment, even without the smoke it doesn't port enough air while closed up to support the AMPs. IF I open the cold smoker's top it gets enough air flow when the cold smoker is not smoking but still attached.
> 
> Again, if I have slandered the AMPs in any way, it was not my intent. I have used it much more that the cold smoker. I have warm smoked with it, but not cold smoked.


Actually, you can use the the AMNPS with wood chips because I did last summer when I smoked some baby backs II wanted both pecan and apple wood smoke flavors. I had apple wood pellets but only pecan wood chips. I tell ya, while I only had to light the AMNPS once to burn the pellets I had to reload the pecan wood chips about every 20 minutes. After that experience I ordered pecan and other wood pellets from Todd to fully stock myself up for next year.

Burning both pellets and chips was a one-time thing prompted by necessity. What I did worked because I had the pellets in the AMNPS and the chips in the wood chip tray. I don't own the MB cold smoker because the AMNPS makes owning on unnecessary since the it can also be used for cold smoking--I've done it quite a few times. In your case, I would have unattach the Cold Smoker and put the wood chip loader back in when you use the AMNPS for hot smokes.


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## daricksta (Dec 8, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> Below is one of the best descriptions I have seen on "Cold Smokin'"....
> 
> http://www.meatsandsausages.com/meat-smoking/cold-smoking


Thanks, Dave. I plan to read this when I have more time.


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## daricksta (Dec 8, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> Hijack away. I need to learn as much as possible before I get started. Any suggestions on instructions/techniques for cold smoking/warm smoking? I see a lot of people making stuff on here but would like step by step info and extra details.
> 
> I checked the Masterbuilt website, they don't seem to sell stuff direct, unless I am looking at the wrong site or something.
> 
> I don't feel like paying extra for a stand. Will any solid structure work as a stand/riser for this unit? Does the bottom not get hot enough to melt stuff, etc?


I'm lucky that my wife runs her home daycare out of our house. There's a discarded child's card table which has been a perfect stand for my MES 30. If it ever succumbs to the outside elements I may buy the MES stand. I also don't know why MB doesn't show this stand or the cold smoker on its site. Maybe somebody can provide the answer.

I store my MES in my garage, bungee corded to a small hand truck. I just wheel it out to where I'm smoking and then when I'm done I wheel it back into the garage.


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## foamheart (Dec 8, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> Actually, you can use the the AMNPS with wood chips because I did last summer when I smoked some baby backs II wanted both pecan and apple wood smoke flavors. I had apple wood pellets but only pecan wood chips. I tell ya, while I only had to light the AMNPS once to burn the pellets I had to reload the pecan wood chips about every 20 minutes. After that experience I ordered pecan and other wood pellets from Todd to fully stock myself up for next year.
> 
> Burning both pellets and chips was a one-time thing prompted by necessity. What I did worked because I had the pellets in the AMNPS and the chips in the wood chip tray. I don't own the MB cold smoker because the AMNPS makes owning on unnecessary since the it can also be used for cold smoking--I've done it quite a few times. In your case, I would have unattach the Cold Smoker and put the wood chip loader back in when you use the AMNPS for hot smokes.


I am glad that it did work for you. But so far I have not been able to use both at the same time. I can start the AMPs while the smoker is heating up it works fine, it smokes that first dewater cycle, but you can see exactly where I used the cold smoker because the pellets quit burning at that point. I will gladly show you on my next smoke.

I am glad it works for you, I still say there is not enough air to support both, in my smokers configuration anyway.


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## freakynorm (Dec 8, 2014)

I am going to probably just build my own stand with casters on it. My concern was if the smoker got hot enough to melt something like a plastic type card table.

I've noticed that the Masterbuilt website is pretty crappy. Like they made it just to have a web presence and not really be a prime outlet for sales and info.


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## daricksta (Dec 8, 2014)

themule69 said:


> I figure 10 hours per LB. They are advertised as 11 hours or so per load and a load is about 15 OZ. So it will go a little longer if it doesn't flare up or whatever. It just keeps the math simple for me.
> 
> Happy smoken.
> 
> David


I'm a penny-pinching guy so a 2 lb. bag of Todd wood pellets can last me months--and they have. With my MES 30 I use about a row and a half of the AMNPS for the pellets and that typically lasts me 4-6 hours. In fact, I've smoked for 4 hours and never even got that far into the second row with the AMNPS never going out, just producing that nonstop TBS. However, I found that smoking at high temps (over 250) burns the pellets up a lot faster.


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## daricksta (Dec 8, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> I am glad that it did work for you. But so far I have not been able to use both at the same time. I can start the AMPs while the smoker is heating up it works fine, it smokes that first dewater cycle, but you can see exactly where I used the cold smoker because the pellets quit burning at that point. I will gladly show you on my next smoke.
> 
> I am glad it works for you, I still say there is not enough air to support both, in my smokers configuration anyway.


It works for me but I've done nothing special to my MES 30; no mailbox mods, no extra air vents or whatever some other guys do. I light the AMNPS when I turn on the MES 30 so in the 30 minutes or so the smoker is warming up to the set point while I've already got the AMNPS lit and burning on the ground. The only tricks to keep it light are blowing on the pellets to get that red hot cherry and re-ignite the flame if it's gone out. Before I place the AMNPS in the smoker I blow on the burning end again to get that cherry glowing and let the flames burn the pellets once last time. I then blow the flames out and insert the AMNPS lit-end first into the MES. Have no idea if I'm right but I figure with the air vent and the wood chip loader both in back and to the right (well, the loader is more to the side) it seems like the airflow would be better in the rear than in the front of the MES. It's been working for me. I also leave the water pan empty but foiled over.

The only time I have problems keeping the AMNPS lit is on cold, damp nights when no breeze is blowing and this has only happened during a cold smoke. The air is already damp inside the smoker and that just serves to further impede combustion inside the smoker--for cold smoking. However, the AMNPS still put out plenty of smoke in that instance even though it went out a few times. I was cold smoking cheeses and they turned out the best I'd made--and I actually smoked it far longer than I needed to.


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## daricksta (Dec 8, 2014)

I don't own the MB Cold Smoker but it's likely that being a wood chip smoker that it does produce more smoke than the AMNPS, but more is not always better. Todd Johnson designed his pellet smoker to produce thin blue smoke (over a period of hours). Wood pellets are just compressed wood so they should slowly smolder instead of burn at a fast pace. Wood chips are thin and so they burn much hotter and faster, which is why many chefs have (incorrectly) advised soaking them for about an hour in water so that they don't burn up so fast.

You can't compare the smoke produced by wood pellets in the AMNPS ( I don't own the tube smoker which means I don't use dust so I can't comment on it) with the smoke produced by wood chips burning in the MB Cold Smoker; two different animals and two different wood mediums.


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## daricksta (Dec 11, 2014)

themule69 said:


> I agree with the 1st generation MES 40 and a AMNPS. You will have money left for any other toys you might want or for some meat. You can also cold smoke in your UDS. I have both a UDS and a MES 40 I have done cheese bacon and other cold smokes in both.
> 
> Cheese in the MES
> 
> ...


I noticed that in your smoker you stood the cheeses on their sides in the MES instead of laying them flat (as you did in your UDS). I found that interesting because it makes perfect sense. I've laid my cheeses flat on the rack so I had to turn them over. Standing them on their sides (on which looks like QMATZ) gets three sides smoked simultaneously unless you still flip the cheeses onto that other side. Do you just let them stand like that without flipping?


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## freakynorm (Dec 11, 2014)

Is it possible to attach dryer vent tubing to run the smoke outdoors? I'd like to keep it in my garage and maybe vent the smoke out when the weather is particularly nasty out. The wind has been gusting 50-60 all week up here.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Dec 11, 2014)

freakynorm said:


> Is it possible to attach dryer vent tubing to run the smoke outdoors? I'd like to keep it in my garage and maybe vent the smoke out when the weather is particularly nasty out. The wind has been gusting 50-60 all week up here.



You certainly could. I'd glue down a vent hose flange over the exhaust vent. Duct tape the hose to the flange. You might want to use permatex high temp but not sure that it would be totally required. I wouldn't screw it on just in case there's wires in there somewhere.


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