# I've made up my mind, but....



## tanglefoot (Apr 24, 2020)

After the last couple of weeks being disgusted, frustrated, and downright disappointed with my mes30, I'm going the PID route, but I could use a little input from my SMF friends. I've spent some time looking at these online the last few days and (besides not knowing what the dickens I'm looking at) I'm not sure what to get. They range in price from around $40-$50 to north of $200. I don't have a problem putting out the $$$s for something I need, and I hate to go too cheap and get junk. But I just want to smoke meat. I don't need the dang thing to wax the car and walk the dog. I'd appreciate any input. (model #s, etc). Heck....I don't even have a dog.


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## Winterrider (Apr 24, 2020)

This is the controller I any many others have added to the MES.





						Multi Purpose Controller [WS-1510ELPM] - $159.95 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. Multi Purpose Controller [WS-1510ELPM] - The WS-1510ELPM is a versatile temperature controller to have in your home. It can be used for various applications such as Sous Vide cooking, controlling an electric smoker, making yogurt, dough proofing, controlling the...



					www.auberins.com


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## pushok2018 (Apr 24, 2020)

Agreed with Winterrider - Auber is a great PID controller. Little bit price though... I have dual probe one - also $149
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						Dual-Probe PID Controller for Bradley Smoker (Out of stock) [WSD-1200GPH] - $149.99 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. Dual-Probe PID Controller for Bradley Smoker (Out of stock) [WSD-1200GPH] -



					www.auberins.com
				



*


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## SmokingUPnorth (Apr 24, 2020)

What does this sucker do? I have a mes 30 bit no issues


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## jted (Apr 24, 2020)

Hi .
The only thing a PID will do in my opinion is stop the radical temp swings inherent to a analog smoker.
The good thing is the meat does not care in most cases.  I also use a Auber and can attest it holds  the IT box temps to within a couple of degrees. The meat I smoked years ago was very comparable with today's smokes. The main difference is when I set it to 242 it stays there and I feel better. That tells me it is in my head. The PID will not make you a great pit master only practice will. After all that I will always use a good quality PID.  No matter what, I like to know the box IT is at the set point I want.  JTED


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## normanaj (Apr 25, 2020)

My MES30 has been pretty kind to me over the years when it comes to the temp swings.Compared to many others mine have not been too radical.Once it settles it holds temp well enough.

When the stock controller finally goes,and it will,I'll be stepping up to the Auber for sure,And then I'll probably be thinking to myself "why didn't I do this sooner!"


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## Winterrider (Apr 25, 2020)

They are set it and forget it that's for sure.


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## MJB05615 (Apr 25, 2020)

I totally agree.  I've been using that Auber PID for 6-8 months and it has made my life much better.
Complete confidence in the cook temps throughout.  # weeks ago I did an 18 hour Brisket, and it maintained 240' throughout.  Maybe 2-5' temp swings.  Nothing compared to the MES stock controller which had 20-40' temp swings.  Enjoy!


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## tanglefoot (May 1, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> After the last couple of weeks being disgusted, frustrated, and downright disappointed with my mes30, I'm going the PID route, but I could use a little input from my SMF friends. I've spent some time looking at these online the last few days and (besides not knowing what the dickens I'm looking at) I'm not sure what to get. They range in price from around $40-$50 to north of $200. I don't have a problem putting out the $$$s for something I need, and I hate to go too cheap and get junk. But I just want to smoke meat. I don't need the dang thing to wax the car and walk the dog. I'd appreciate any input. (model #s, etc). Heck....I don't even have a dog.


Well here goes....The mes30 is rewired, the PID just arrived the other day, and I' got a hankerin' for  some pulled pork. Mrs. Tanglefoot picked me up an 8 pounder today so I'll be on a mission tomorrow!! (why do I feel like it's Christmas eve???)


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## Winterrider (May 2, 2020)

Congrats and enjoy, they are awesome. . .


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

Winterrider said:


> Congrats and enjoy, they are awesome. . .


Thanks Winter. 
Fired it up this morning, and it keeps tripping the gfci. Tried 3 different circuits and still does it. The dang thing will heat for about 2-3 minutes and then trip again. Not sure what my next move should be. Dang frustrating.


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## Winterrider (May 2, 2020)

Hmmmm, not sure. One of the pro's may chime in. I know these days it's not uncommon to get a goofy gfci but wouldn't know how to go about checking for that.

Edit: are you using extension cord into that outlet at all ? If so, short "heavy" may help?


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

Winterrider said:


> Hmmmm, not sure. One of the pro's may chime in. I know these days it's not uncommon to get a goofy gfci but wouldn't know how to go about checking for that.
> 
> Edit: are you using extension cord into that outlet at all ? If so, short "heavy" may help?


Not on my "main" smoker outlet. It's 20amp dedicated outlet. and as for trying the other circuits, i used a 25' 14 ga cord.


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## chopsaw (May 2, 2020)

Couple things can cause this . Did you get it working ?


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Couple things can cause this . Did you get it working ?


Nope not yet. Not sure what to look for.


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## chopsaw (May 2, 2020)

Looks like you just did the re wire . 
The suspect here is a leak to ground , by either moisture , bad element or something touching the case just enough to cause this . 
Stay with the smoker , and plug the smoker into power . No Controller . See if it trips the GFCI , if not make sure it's heating . If it runs longer than it was , un plug it and we'll look for something else . If it trips , check the re wire job .
DON'T leave the smoker .


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Looks like you just did the re wire .
> The suspect here is a leak to ground , by either moisture , bad element or something touching the case just enough to cause this .
> Stay with the smoker , and plug the smoker into power . No Controller . See if it trips the GFCI , if not make sure it's heating . If it runs longer than it was , un plug it and we'll look for something else . If it trips , check the re wire job .
> DON'T leave the smoker .


Yup, tried that. Tripped after a couple minutes. It was heating.


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## chopsaw (May 2, 2020)

Ok , re visit the wiring job just to make sure all is good . 
Check your work , but also check the connections to the element in the back of the smoker .


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Ok , re visit the wiring job just to make sure all is good .
> Check your work , but also check the connections to the element in the back of the smoker .


Connections look and feel good. nothing bare touching the cabinet anywhere. I see there is what appears to be 2 ground wires. One green and one blue. Not sure what the deal is. Of course my entire knowledge of electricity consists of what I learned touching a fence wire.


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## chopsaw (May 2, 2020)

I would say you need to check the resistance of the heating element . Should be around 18 ohms . 
You'll need an ohm meter to do this . 
if you weren't having this trouble before you did the re wire , I'd re trace your steps again , and look at everything you changed . 
But you will need to check the element .


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## Winterrider (May 2, 2020)

I don' know if this does you any good or maybe you have reviewed already.
Electrical is frustrating to me. Sure hope you find the culprit.





						MES Rewire Simple Guide - No Back Removal Needed!!!
					

Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.  Disclaimer:  When messing with electrical equipment...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> I would say you need to check the resistance of the heating element . Should be around 18 ohms .
> You'll need an ohm meter to do this .
> if you weren't having this trouble before you did the re wire , I'd re trace your steps again , and look at everything you changed .
> But you will need to check the element .


Thanks chopsaw, I did check it when I rewired it. It was at 17.5 ohms, but i'm still thinking it's a problem with the element as it doesn't trip the circuit right away, only after it starts heating. I've dbl checked the wiring and it's just as tallbm instructions read.


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

Winterrider said:


> I don' know if this does you any good or maybe you have reviewed already.
> Electrical is frustrating to me. Sure hope you find the culprit.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Winter. That's what I used as my guide!!


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## chopsaw (May 2, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Thanks chopsaw, I did check it when I rewired it. It was at 17.5 ohms, but i'm still thinking it's a problem with the element


That's a good number . So if you haven't already . Unplug the smoker . Take the wires off the element . Check one side of the element and back to the case . Then check the other side back to the case should be open , 0 ohms .


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## tanglefoot (May 2, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> That's a good number . So if you haven't already . Unplug the smoker . Take the wires off the element . Check one side of the element and back to the case . Then check the other side back to the case should be open , 0 ohms .


yep...did that as well. no reading


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## chopsaw (May 3, 2020)

It's either moisture , a bad element , or a wire rubbing ground . 
Look and see if the element is touching ground somewhere / resting on the lower rods 
Maybe when you put the inspection covers back on , something is touching / screw to long ? 
Whats the smoker setting on ? 
Just thinking out loud here . 
If it was me , at this point I would connect the heating element directly to the pid with a short piece of extension cord , cut off and add female ends and plug those to the element . 
If it stills trips after heating for a bit , I would say the element is bad , but if you didn't have this before 
then I'm not sure , unless the element was getting ready to fail , and moving it around helped it along .


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## Bearcarver (May 3, 2020)

normanaj said:


> My MES30 has been pretty kind to me over the years when it comes to the temp swings.Compared to many others mine have not been too radical.Once it settles it holds temp well enough.
> 
> When the stock controller finally goes,and it will,I'll be stepping up to the Auber for sure,And then I'll probably be thinking to myself "why didn't I do this sooner!"




I couldn't have said my thoughts any better than Norm did!!

Bear


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## chopsaw (May 3, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> I couldn't have said my thoughts any better than Norm did!!


Yup . Here's the Smoker temp graph from a brisket I did last Sunday .


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## tanglefoot (May 3, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> It's either moisture , a bad element , or a wire rubbing ground .
> Look and see if the element is touching ground somewhere / resting on the lower rods
> Maybe when you put the inspection covers back on , something is touching / screw to long ?
> Whats the smoker setting on ?
> ...


Upon closer inspection, the element is touching the bottom of the housing piece that holds the chip tray. Could that be causing my headaches?


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## chopsaw (May 3, 2020)

Mine was doing the same thing . Touching and tripping the gfci . Moved it  from touching and it stopped .


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## tanglefoot (May 3, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Mine was doing the same thing . Touching and tripping the gfci . Moved it  from touching and it stopped .


I removed the entire housing from above the element, so the element is there by its lonesome. Plugged it in to the wall and tripped the circuit in about two minutes. Lopped off one end of a short ext. cord and rigged it with a couple female wire ends. Hooked it directly to the element and plugged it in. It heated just fine. i pulled the plug after about 15 mins so it wouldn't get too hot. So now I'm thinking it's in the wiring. triple checked all my connections, and tallbm's instructions, and everything looks fine. Only thing left I can think of is the safety  switch and the power cord. Any other ideas??


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## chopsaw (May 3, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Any other ideas??


Something is bleeding of off to ground ( we know that already ) . Just my thoughts , if you did not have this trouble before , then it's something that happened after the re wire . By plugging in direct like you did , that by passes everything else , and tells you the element is good . 
I would not be suspect of the limit switch , but that's just my opinion . 
Like I said above , make sure " something " is not be caused when you put the inspection covers back on . 
Do you have the rubber gaskets in place that go between the covers and the body of the smoker ? 
Screw touching a wire ? 
Take the covers of and try it . Can't hurt at this point . 
I'm thinking it's something in the bottom where you did the re wire . 
When stripping stranded wire and wire nutting 2 wires together , you have to be careful that a single strand did not end up outside the wire nut / tape . I have had this happen to me . 

Anyway , you have narrowed it down , so good job there . If nothing else you can run it wired straight to the element plugged into the PID . You just won't have the over heat protection .


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## tanglefoot (May 3, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Something is bleeding of off to ground ( we know that already ) . Just my thoughts , if you did not have this trouble before , then it's something that happened after the re wire . By plugging in direct like you did , that by passes everything else , and tells you the element is good .
> I would not be suspect of the limit switch , but that's just my opinion .
> Like I said above , make sure " something " is not be caused when you put the inspection covers back on .
> Do you have the rubber gaskets in place that go between the covers and the body of the smoker ?
> ...


 Actually, the only reason I'm even messing with this thing is that I started having trouble with it a couple weeks ago. I brought it up in another thread....here's a copy & paste.....
Downright unhappy with my mes30 today. Fired it up to do up some baby backs and can't get the thing to stay on. It will start out ok, but after it gets up to temp it shuts down it pops the ground fault outlet when the thermostat kicks in again. The outlet is fine. in fact, I plugged the GMG Dan'l Boone in to the same outlet to get the job done and it worked fine. (it's a 20amp dedicated outlet). I'm a meat smoker and not an electrician so i'm not sure where the problem is. I don't think it's the element as the thing fires up just fine to start with. On a side note, I just bought this smoker last year after having a mes30 for about 8-10 years before this one and smoked many, many meals without a glitch. When I brought this one home and unpacked it from the box I noticed how cheaply it was made. (my $0.02) Any ideas out there?


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## tanglefoot (May 3, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Anyway , you have narrowed it down , so good job there . If nothing else you can run it wired straight to the element plugged into the PID . You just won't have the over heat protection .


I'm seriously considering that, but I'd feel a lot better with that limit switch in the loop.


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## chopsaw (May 3, 2020)

You're tacking it down . Keep lookin , you'll get it . If need to smoke something  use the pig tail cord .


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## MJB05615 (May 3, 2020)

I've been using the Auber PID direct wired to the heating element for nearly a year without any issues.  I smoke at least 2-3 times every month all year.  I'm always home when smoking.  I am aware that it is safer with the overload switch, but this is so much easier, and works perfectly.  Good luck.


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## tanglefoot (May 3, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> You're tacking it down . Keep lookin , you'll get it . If need to smoke something  use the pig tail cord .


Thanks chopsaw. I still have the GMG Dan'l Boone to get my smoking "fix." In fact I did a butt on it yesterday and made a big ol pan of "pork pot pie" today.


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## tanglefoot (May 3, 2020)

MJB05615 said:


> I've been using the Auber PID direct wired to the heating element for nearly a year without any issues.  I smoke at least 2-3 times every month all year.  I'm always home when smoking.  I am aware that it is safer with the overload switch, but this is so much easier, and works perfectly.  Good luck.


Thanks, MJB.


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## dr k (May 4, 2020)

You can take off the element access plate and plug in the Mes power cord and right when  the element is hot and trips. Quickly unplug the smoker, remove the connectors from the element and with the ohm meter on the highest setting touch one of the element male spades with a probe and the other on the back of the smoker to see if there is continuity when the element is hot. Maybe the resistance wire when hot has a failed insulation area between the resistance wire and outside metal element jacket that deforms with heat allowing the short.


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## chopsaw (May 4, 2020)

He had it wired direct to the element and it heated until unplugged.  So that should rule out the element , right ?


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## tanglefoot (May 4, 2020)

dr k said:


> You can take off the element access plate and plug in the Mes power cord and right when  the element is hot and trips. Quickly unplug the smoker, remove the connectors from the element and with the ohm meter on the highest setting touch one of the element male spades with a probe and the other on the back of the smoker to see if there is continuity when the element is hot. Maybe the resistance wire when hot has a failed insulation area between the resistance wire and outside metal element jacket that deforms with heat allowing the short.


OK. Did that. Set the multimeter on the 20m setting. As soon as it tripped, I pulled the leads off and checked like you said. It started at a low number like 2.5, then slowly rose to around 20. Then went blank.


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## dr k (May 4, 2020)

Here's a direct wire link.


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## tanglefoot (May 4, 2020)

dr k said:


> Here's a direct wire link.


Yep. Thanks, Doc. I'm seriously considering doing that, and I probably will end up that way.
I was just hoping to keep the thermal kick-out switch in the loop.


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## dr k (May 4, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> OK. Did that. Set the multimeter on the 20m setting. As soon as it tripped, I pulled the leads off and checked like you said. It started at a low number like 2.5, then slowly rose to around 20. Then went blank.


There should be no continuity. It seems the conductor in the element is touching the outer element jacket when hot that is touching the aluminum mounting bracket where the grounding nut and bolt are. If it worked directly connected to the element was there a ground wire attached to the chassis like in the next post where one of the access cover screws was terminating the ground. Just making sure the chassis was grounded on that 20 min good run just like before when it tripped.


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