# MES additonal heater mod



## davenh (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi All...was bored today and I've never been one to leave well enough alone 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






, so decided to add extra latches and a adjustable heater (0 - 600 watts) to my MES. 

I wasn't happy with the temp recovery in cold weather, especially when loaded.  I think with the 40" unit they could have put in a little larger heater. They use the same heater as the 30" even with extra area and mass to heat.

I put 3 - 200 watt cartridge heaters in an aluminum block and run it with a light dimmer so it's adjustable. I made a plate out of some S.S. sheet and clipped it to the existing rods with a cover. The extra heater is wired independent of the original. It's a little rough around the edges, but was a fun project. Just hope it was worth while 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. Parts were free 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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I think I can also change the cover, drop a thin wall smoker box on the added heater and use it for cold smoking. Wanted to try doing some cheese. Block seems to get plenty warm at 250~300 watts. I tossed a few chips on it and they smoked right away.

I did a test run today with some pork tenderloins and think it helped. With an extra 250~300 watts the temp recovered much faster when opening the door and still had good control at setpoint (66% on at 240). Then again, tenderloins are not much of a load. Outside temp was 18 with light wind.

I'll give it the real test with a turkey on Sunday. My last turkey attempt in similar weather, the MES maxed out at 235~240 and took a long time to recover after opening the door to mop. I think this extra heater will let me run at 270 and recover quick. I'll set the booster heater so the MES control point at 270 is 60~70% on for good smoke. Well, I'll see how it goes anyways.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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Here's a few pics if your interested.


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## bb53chevpro (Mar 1, 2008)

The mods sound great. Looking forward to hearing about the results. Just out of curiousity, all the walls of that smoker insulated?


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## davenh (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi bb53chevpro...all the walls and doors are insulated, about an inch thick. The outside barely gets warm to the touch in this weather. I was debating making an insulated cover, but got caught up in trying this out.


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## illini (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi, DaveNH
Interesting inovation........agree with you....have had my 40" only a short time but the 800W heater is a little short in cold weather....my 30" has no problem in cold weather with the 800W......thought you might have missed my answer to cold smoking as outlined by the post in my signature line for the "contraption"....think I will try it on the 40" as it is a preference way of burning wood in a MES for me......

Thanks for your post


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## oak cliff boy (Mar 1, 2008)

Absolute Genius, Dave!  Excellent execution! My MES is the smaller unit.  I can’t believe they didn’t increase the wattage on the larger unit.  Keep us posted.  Thanks for the picts.


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## davenh (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi Illini,
Your "contraption" looks pretty good to me! That might be my next mod to try out some cheese or jerky. Great idea putting the heater and smoke source outside the box! 

Do you see a big difference in performance between your 30" and 40"? The two might act like completely different smokers in cold weather. If the 40" has an under powered heater, it could mean longer cooking times and having to feed less wood more often because the heater is on more. 


Hi Oak Cliff Boy,
You guys are great for the ego 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





, thanks! I'll know more after doing a turkey tomorrow.


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## illini (Mar 1, 2008)

Dave

I like the way you think
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	




Right on about smaller wood pieces and more often.......I like fooling around with the smokers and don't mind tending it........Think the 40" is going to need some more btu's....don't like guessing about what is going on inside because of the heat dump when looking, wraping or spritzeing
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Going to take the wife out for birthday dinner.......will get back to this later


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## davenh (Mar 2, 2008)

Here is the results of today's turkey smoke 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. The MES happily maintained 270. The 13lb turkey cooked in less than 4 hours. The outside temp was 29-35 during the cook. I had the MES in a protected area, but there were some good wind gusts.

I started out with 300W and the unit heated pretty quickly to 240 then kind of stalled. During the first 1.5 hrs, making small bumps in wattage, I got it to the 270 target with 530W. After the first basting, it took 25 min to return to 270. The controller cycled normally and there was good smoke. 270 on the controller was actually 279 on my external probe, measured near the cavity opening.   

I'm really happy with the way the extra heater performed, got me an electric smoker that will cook a 13lb bird in under 4hrs!

The heater wattage setting required for each cook will vary depending on outside conditions, desired cooking temp and  food load. Basically, bump it as needed 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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My goal was to have a ~70% on time for the MES heater at 270 and quick recovery after opening the door. Mission Accomplished 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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Here are a few pics, warning*** last couple may cause excessive drooling*** 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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Controller had just hit 270, but it was time to baste and rotate the bird. This is 1.5hrs into the cook.









Controller/probe temps and current draw on the extra heater. Plus a few of the inside around 2.5hr into it. Left = turkey temp, middle = probe near turkey, right = MES controller. 





















Turkey finished in 3hrs 50 min.


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## richtee (Mar 2, 2008)

Yum. And that's 530 POINT 4 watts...LOL!

Sorry...damm engineers!


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## kookie (Mar 2, 2008)

Great looking mods.......Also great looking turkey............I will have to keep the mods in mind if I ever get a MES........


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## morkdach (Mar 2, 2008)

good looken setup dave i always have a problem getting that style heat element to sink to the alum. block and after a couple of uses the elements burn out how do you sink them with paste or press fit.
qview looks yummmmmmmmm


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## davenh (Mar 2, 2008)

Don't award points yet! I was looking at my pics and had to run down to the basement and see for myself! WTF...the block had melted! I didn't notice until seeing the pic looked strange. I need to make a bigger stainless steel block and pop in some new heaters. Shouldn't be a problem. Funny thing..it still works, never shorted out. 

New rule = don't use aluminum with cartridge heaters 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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I'll have the new heater for next week 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## davenh (Mar 2, 2008)

See above post. Won't be using aluminum 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. I drilled out  so they just fit snug. At 300W everything was fine, not even red. Blocks were not big enough to handle 530, melted itself. A nice big chunk of steel or SS with the same wattage cartridges with more surface area (longer) should do the trick. Cartridges kept working, block had a meltdown.


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## morkdach (Mar 2, 2008)

dave i used these in ss and always had to use a sink paste due too ss will expand  i was using a higher wattage to heat the stainless as a release agent let us know how this app. works for you


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## davenh (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi morkdach...your probably right, I may need to use some thermal paste. I was thinking on the next block, if the heaters are SS and the block is SS maybe the expansion would be the same? The aluminum probably expanded much more than the SS heaters making quite the hot spot with the loose fit. 

I should also size the heaters so they total the same wattage (600W) at 1/2 the voltage. This way they won't be on full tilt and burn themselves out. Say maybe 3- 600W cartridges would probably give ~ 200W each at 60V. Damn...wish I was at work right now 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## morkdach (Mar 2, 2008)

you know what your doin let us know how all this works out all my smokers are electric and always looken for new idears


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## illini (Mar 3, 2008)

Dave
The two heaters in my "contraption" are series wired and I have not had a problem.......although not trying to generate as much btu as you are

turkey looked good


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## richtee (Mar 3, 2008)

LOL... aluminum does not melt like steel..it never really gets to a "glow" first...it just puddles. Lead does the same thing. Good heat transfer that way tho! SS should solve yer problem tho. Or you could consider a couple firebricks motared with refractory cement as a heat sink.


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## davenh (Mar 3, 2008)

It sure did puddle ok 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. Going try a different route and order a tubular heater. Actually, it looks like the same type MES uses. They come in a straight length and you bend it to size or shape. Made to work in free air, no block needed. Just add bottom reflector and maybe a splash cover. Best part...$37 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. Well err..we'll see how it goes 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## illini (Mar 3, 2008)

And what is the wattage rating on that animal
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	




Do you intend to use your controller in the add-on box with it?


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## davenh (Mar 4, 2008)

Hi Illini...I have a 650W heater on the way, should have it tomorrow. I'm going to control it with the dimmer. The cost was higher than in my catalog, $59 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






. This one should hold up. I'll post a pic before and after I bend it into shape.


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## richtee (Mar 4, 2008)

Bend? It's not ceramic encased is it?


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## davenh (Mar 4, 2008)

They are supposed to be customer bendable for custom field installations. Here are a couple links if anyone is interested. I'm getting the .260" dia, model TRI-3216/120V. 

The second link is to the applications notes. If I'm reading correctly (sometimes I'm not 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





), in still air (ovens) this heater should work in temp up to 700F. 

http://www.omega.com/Heaters/pdf/TRI_HEATER.pdf

http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/framese...R_APP_NOTE_REF


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## richtee (Mar 4, 2008)

Huh. Cool. Never heard tell O this stuff.


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## davenh (Mar 4, 2008)

Got the element today, will install it Friday. Bent into shape without too much trouble. Not much of an artist, but it should fit and function ok. 

Here is a before and after pic.


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## morkdach (Mar 4, 2008)

whats the wattage on that puppy looks like it will do the trick i buy all the elec indoor grills i can at yard sales flea market or what ever 3bucks or less if possiable send more pics as avail


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## irwinwd (Mar 5, 2008)

Dave, great mod.  I was wishing the larger MES had been available at the price I saw them at Sam's back when I bought mine.  I have the smaller one, so I haven't seen the same issue.


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## davenh (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi morkdach...It's 650W, along with the 780W heater already in there, it won't be under powered anymore 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. Your $3 price sounds a lot better! Needed one right away and a specific size so had to bite the bullet. Have a few extras in the repair shop now 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. I enjoy the projects.


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## davenh (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi irwinwd...There are some advantages to getting the smaller one if you don't need the extra space, cheaper price, correctly sized heater and the Bradley cover fits. 

I didn't realize the Sam's club MES was a different size  until I already had it and found this forum. Having fun with it and we love the food it makes. Just needs a little help to be better when it's a*s biting cold out 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. In the summer it won't be such an issue.


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## davenh (Mar 17, 2008)

Well finally got my replacement heaters, bent the other too much and cracked the sheath 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 . Was a couple weeks, but they are here 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 ! Hope to install tonight or tomorrow night. Will post some pics when finished.

The new one is 650W, larger dia and a little shorter. Should be a better fit. Would like to do a quick Turkey at higher temps on Sunday, will make for a good test. See if I can maintain 275 or higher and good smoke with a 14 lb bird with out going nuclear again 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## davenh (Mar 19, 2008)

Here are a few pics of round three with the heater mod. I'm thinking this one is a keeper 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. I'll seal up the top area of the outlet box with some clear silicon to make it a little more weather/spill proof. 

Maybe the next mod will be handles on the sides to make it a little easier to carry it outside.


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## richtee (Mar 19, 2008)

Well, by golly.... I think yer cookin' with gas- err...electric now  LOL!


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## illini (Mar 19, 2008)

Looks good Dave
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Hope it works as you expect.....


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## morkdach (Mar 19, 2008)

WOW Dave looks great whats the wattage of your dimmer switch and did you have to mod the outlet plate on the elec box.


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## davenh (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi morkdach...the dimmer is a standard 600W. It seems to limit around 570W all the way up. So with things not requiring low and slow I can just max it out. Somewhere in the middle to help the recovery times on larger food loads or really cold days.

The outlet box is a standard deep exposed area box. The cover is also standard. It had the cut outs for standard and GFCI outlets. I did have to trim the dimmer aluminum mounting plate/heatsink a little to fit in the GFCI slot. 

I figured the outlet would come in handy for a light or something. Plus it fit the hole 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 . Everything full tilt will draw about 11 amps, so can't plug in much more than a light.


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## richtee (Mar 19, 2008)

The triac device that is used in dimmers is not a 100% passing device, due to limitations of triggering the gate and solid state semiconductor inherent limitations. You COULD toss in a 'bypass" "turbo" switch..applying the line directly across the element and not worry about damaging the dimmer tho  :{)


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## morkdach (Mar 19, 2008)

WTF are you tring to say
bypass turbo switch


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## davenh (Mar 19, 2008)

:PDT_Armataz  _01_14:
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





..Too Funny!!!

I believe he saying to switch power directly to the element, bypass the electronic dimmer with a switch, to squeeze out the last 100w if I need full power.


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## morkdach (Mar 20, 2008)

thanks for clearing that up i'm ready to start a mod on one of mine now later dave


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## wavector (Mar 21, 2008)

A 3 position switch would work for manual applications to by pass the dimmer. By the way, I think I have 1000 watt dimmer laying around here somewhere.


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## davenh (Mar 22, 2008)

Ok Richtee...I did a turbo switch mod to my mod 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






. 

I was smoking a bunch of salmon (215Â°) last night and found turning the extra heater on for a short period of time brings the smoker back to temp quickly after opening the door to mop. It was very windy here and cool temps in the 30's. When I hit the heater on I could recover in under 10 min to  the set point.

Thinking about your turbo switch idea and took it a little step further. I added an auto-off timer in parallel to the dimmer. I can set the heater at any level needed with the dimmer, or leave it off. When I open the door and temps drop, I hit the 10 min button on the timer and it overrides the dimmer for 10 mins, element @ full power. Now I can walk away, after it times out the dimmer is back in control. So, kind of like a real turbo boost for temp recovery 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. The timer has 10, 20, 30, 60 mins and a hold (unlimited time on). 

Marked up the dimmer with some hash marks, kind of ugly but lets me know the wattage setting.


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## davenh (Mar 26, 2008)

Had a problem with radiant heating off the element at full power. I did a couple of turkeys at higher temps (275) and the heater started to warp the door and over heat the walls 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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Temp recovery was great, even with 2 - 12lb birds. Only took 10 min to get back to set point. Problem was with the temp in the smoker, way too uneven

The sideways radiant heating got the walls so hot it screwed with the MES sensor. It was reading about 40~50 higher (rack 260, MES sensor 300+). The uneven  temps really messed with the smoking, middle of the top bird was undercooked and the outer areas were overcooked. The bottom bird was great.

So, had to mod again, boxed it in a little to control the sideways heating to the walls and redirected the heat more to the center under the water pan 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. I'll try a couple big chickens this weekend to test it out.

Here are a couple pics.


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## richtee (Mar 26, 2008)

Hey  good one! I been thinkin about the box you have. Maybe some more surface area as well would help get the heat out and into the chamber. A heat sink sort of setup. Being as you have a relatively small surface area of heating element and an inefficient heat transfer medium <air> alot of heat is being "wasted" heating the box up. I assume that box is stainless? Maybe a couple lines of fins tack welded or riveted on the top would help get the heat out into the smoking chamber better.

That first block you had melted because it was holding on to too much of the heat and was unable to transfer it fast enough to the surrounding air. If it had been a deeply finned block, it MAY have held. MAY... without doing some rather involved calcs I cannot swear by it.

Anyway, something to chew over.


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## davenh (Mar 26, 2008)

Hi Richtee..where would you recommend the heatsink fins, top of the angled cover, sides maybe? The box is stainless. Was trying to make this thing work with materials I have laying around 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 . I could make some fins out of some left over pieces. 

I was thinking of the box being more of a chimney with air inlet holes along the bottom edges (the back is 50% open where the heater enters) and as the hot air rises it is distributed more to the center of the water pan, then diffused more by the pan. These MES smokers are sealed up and insulated pretty good so it doesn't take much to built heat inside. 

Then again, I'm in no way any kind of a thermal expert (more of a jack of all trades kinda guy 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





) and welcome any suggestions or advice. 

Another issue, as the outside temps are getting warmer the results might start to seem better, but may be more related to the warmer weather. Not many more 10~20° days left to see if it is doing what it's supposed too . I might not know if it's really working until next late next fall 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## richtee (Mar 26, 2008)

Why do you need a bottom at all? It's just something else the heat has to transfer thru to get to where you want it, no?

Also have you considered a small fan to aid in heat distribution?

The idea of an un-exhausted box freaks me out.


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## davenh (Mar 26, 2008)

I probably wasn't clear which box I was talking about , heater or MES, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 . I shouldn't have said the MES or the heater box is sealed. There is an exhaust vent on the MES to the outside. Inlet is fixed, 3 - 3/8 holes in the wood chip loader. Other than those holes there is no other leaks. Or were you talking about the heater box..LOL. One end of the heater box is open and I did drill some inlet holes along the bottom so air would be pulled into the box as hot air rises out the top, convection right? 

I put a bottom on the heater box to act as a reflector, so the heater wouldn't cook the bottom of the MES. I thought as the heat reflected off the sides and bottom of the heater box it would naturally want to go up? 

In hindsight, maybe a thick larger piece of stainless or plain steel with fins as a heatsink and the tube heater clamped to it would be a better choice. Or maybe the tube heater sandwiched between two plates? 

I was thinking about a fan before, but wasn't sure if I could easily find one that would run for a while in 275Â°. A smoking convection oven, sounds good 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## flyweed (Jul 23, 2010)

I've seen tubular style heater elements with heat fins already mounted all the way along the tube..wouldn't one of those work?


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## deltadude (Jul 31, 2010)

flyweed said:


> I've seen tubular style heater elements with heat fins already mounted all the way along the tube..wouldn't one of those work?


I am not sure, my thinking is based on my HVAC background.  Finned elements would work better where there is air flow (like a fan) that moves air over the element, the fins will transfer heat or dissipate or dispense heat faster.  Since the MES basically has static air, with only a little air circulation the smooth type works very well.


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## baba bones (Dec 2, 2012)

I was looking at this post and I'm not getting any pix of these mods   why is that , can anyone HELP.......


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## danbono (Dec 2, 2012)

Hi All Same here pics are NOT there??

Thanks Dan


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## deltadude (Dec 2, 2012)

Many posters like myself us either photobucket, imageshake or another photo storage site.  The posters in this thread haven't been on SMF for a long time, if they used a service they could have either closed their account there or ran out of allowed free storage, and older pics deleted.  If they used SMF to upload the images, this thread is 4 years old, it was before SMF changed forum software when some old threads were either lost or the pics possibly lost.


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