# PID Question



## kirby27 (Feb 19, 2017)

Hi all,

I built a smoker out of an old freezer and have been experimenting with a couple different heating methods. First one was a single propane burner but couldn't keep the temp low enough so i switched to a hot plate. It won't keep the temp hot enough. So I'm thinking of going with a double burner hot plate and adding a PID of some sort to control the heat. Any help or ideas would be really appreciated.

I also am using a A-MAZE-N smoker tray to apply the smoke.


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## marctrees (Feb 19, 2017)

Read about "Auber" plug and play controllers, search this Forum.

History proven reliability and accuracy.

Their  website -  auberins.com  

But you do not need to spend the $ on Auber to do basic typical smoking in the 200 - 300 degree range.

For sausage or where temp control is critical, that's when is most useful.

Portable tabletop hotplates CAN work, but introduce various possible complications making them generally NOT a good solution.

With or w/o Auber, strongly consider link below for your element(s) - The controllers they come with are more than adequate for all but the critical temp smokes.

And you can always add the Auber anytine later, then just leave the element control on wide open "High".            

http://rivercountry101.com/electric-smoker-grill-add-on-replacement-heating-element-controller/

Lastly, re electric heat VS Propane -    Unless your freezer is REALLY small, like under 8 cubic ft, you will need more than one 1500w elements.

So now, you need to have 2 seperate 120v ckts at your smoker, or a 220ckt.

Point is , you're not gonna run it on one cord.

Research in the "Fridge/Freezer" sub section of this Forum.

Ask if more questions.         Marc


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## ab canuck (Feb 19, 2017)

That's good info Mactress, I am calling them this week to try and figure out what I need to set up Auber system for smokehouse build I am planning and using gas / propane to heat with. Lots of planning and lots of reading involved, But it will be well worth it in the end.


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## crankybuzzard (Feb 19, 2017)

I use the Auber 1800 with a 1500 watt element and love it!  Very accurate and easy to use.


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## dward51 (Feb 19, 2017)

One drawback for hot burner plates is they are made to be used in open air and not an enclosed insulated cabinet.  They have a thermal limit switch in them and it will likely trip and shut you elements down.  This is what I ran into when I first tried to use hot plate in the bottom of a WSM for cold smoking.  It did not run long enough to get chips in a pan reliably smoking, and it kept shutting down.

A better alternative is a straight heating element on a PID controller.  Say a 1,500 watt brinkmann element on a Auber plug and play controller (or a home made version of the same).  In essence that is what I did with my final version of the e-WSM mod, but I used an element I could mount in an extra WSM door instead of the brinkmann type.

Same concept, just a different housing....  (and yours would be insulated where the WSM was not)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/233628/e-wsm-gets-an-upgrade-to-digital


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## kirby27 (Feb 20, 2017)

Thanks for all the info. That helps out a lot. My smoker is about 27 inches deep, 30 inches wide and 5 feet tall. I'm not sure where I would put the element you are talking about, let alone two of them. The floor of the smoker is only about 12 inches deep because of the recess where the compressor was. I'd have to mount it above that which is about a foot up from the floor. I have been looking at the Auber and don't have a problem spending the 150 bucks...


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## marctrees (Feb 20, 2017)

So the floor is 12 x 30 ?

Well then with a small floor area, I guess I'd be looking at round burner elements like in an electric range.

Again, with that cubic footage, be prepared to may need like 3k watts.

Remember that a 240v rated element, will provide 1/4 the wattage, NOT 1/2, when fed w 120.

Consider your Auber choice carefully.

Do not undersize it.

Keep reading past posts about other's builds.

       Marc


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## marctrees (Feb 20, 2017)

One could - temporarily install and hookup a single element, and see how hot it gets inside.

If not too hot for your purposes, you could consider running one element constant, and only the second element hooked to Auber kicking on as needed. 

Just an idea.

Marc


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## masonsjax (Feb 20, 2017)

Two elements can also be run in parallel as long as the combined amperage doesn't exceed the rating of the PID (or SSR).


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## kirby27 (Feb 20, 2017)

That's great info guys. Thanks. I have a used appliance repair friend that might be able to hook me up with just the right stuff. I'll talk to him and see what he has to say. But aren't the stove top coils the same as a hot plate? And are all the stove top coils 220?


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## rexster314 (Feb 20, 2017)

The coils could be the same, but a hot plate has a temp control whereas the actual coils do not. It's up to you to supply the controller, whatever it might be.


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## marctrees (Feb 20, 2017)

And as Dward sed above, hotplates have internal hi limits,  and otherwise just plain not designed to be in high ambient temps.  Marc


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## dward51 (Feb 20, 2017)

If your friend can hook you up with just the range elements, they are just the heating coil without any other circuitry.  The PID and SSR will provide the temp sensing and control.  As was pointed out above, running a 220v heating coil on 110v power will net you 1/4 the wattage of the coil at full voltage.  Also if you can fit 2 smaller coils in the base, you might want to run them in parallel and put a switch on one of them (a manual on/off switch).  That way you have the option of running them both if you need the extra power for say a large load of meat, or just run one if you don't.

If your friend is in the appliance repair business, he should be able to get you squared away on the wiring as well. He should know both 110v and 220v circuits.


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## marctrees (Feb 21, 2017)

And, I would keep in mind - As you prototype this, with the biggest unknown how much wattage does this thing need for your purposes, in your climate, etc. to not start cutting holes and puttin in screws etc UNTIL after you have tested w proposed elements.

THEN cut and nail down and permanently wire.    Marc


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## haulinbuns (Feb 21, 2017)

masonsjax said:


> Two elements can also be run in parallel as long as the combined amperage doesn't exceed the rating of the PID (or SSR).



Two SSR's can be easily run in parallel to power each element individually.


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## masonsjax (Feb 21, 2017)

True, but wire nuts are cheaper [emoji]128512[/emoji]
But yeah, most PIDs can easily trigger multiple SSRs and give you more headroom.


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## crankybuzzard (Feb 22, 2017)

masonsjax said:


> True, but wire nuts are cheaper [emoji]128512[/emoji]
> But yeah, most PIDs can easily trigger multiple SSRs and give you more headroom.


That's true, but with the high heat and the resistance potential of this type of operation, I would suggest screw type lugs at a minimum with solder joints being the best.  I've had wire nuts fail in the past due to constant expansion and contraction from the heating cooling.


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## marctrees (Feb 22, 2017)

Re:  posts 16 and 17 -

Where in the thread was the suggestion of Wire nuts first mentioned ? 

Post 16?

Used for what connection, located where?

I thought the disscussion was in the direction of wondering how much wattage was needed, now allasudden some specific connection somewhere is being discussed. 

It's like I have a post(s) missing.

Kirby - Clarify please - Sounds like you are considering Auber.

A plug and play unit, or buying parts and putting together one yourself?

Marc


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## masonsjax (Feb 22, 2017)

Marctrees said:


> Re:  posts 16 and 17 -
> 
> Where in the thread was the suggestion of Wire nuts first mentioned ?
> 
> ...



Wire nuts would just be one simple way to use two elements simultaneously. I wasn't really referencing a specific schematic, more so the use of multiple SSRs ( one for each element) vs a single SSR running multiple elements.

The project I'm currently working on (get it? current) uses two stovetop elements in parallel with a single SSR. I could have used wire nuts to connect them, as the wiring is outside the pit, but I opted for solder and heat shrink for a more enduring connection. Lots of ways to skin this cat.


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## marctrees (Feb 22, 2017)

Mason - OK, thank you for explaining.

I will say, as a Retired Electrician, in your instance, I would have used quality wire nuts no worries.

What you did was sure fine, I'm sure you did a good job on the joint, but not needed.

Just my thoughts.

Marc


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## kirby27 (Oct 11, 2017)

marctrees said:


> Re:  posts 16 and 17 -
> 
> Where in the thread was the suggestion of Wire nuts first mentioned ?
> 
> ...


Hi Marc,
Sorry for the late reply - Summer was here and been very busy. Now that fall is here I have the following plans on my smoker: I went down to the local appliance store and they let me rob some elements out of a newer stove they were recycling. So I have this oven element that I need to put in this smoker. Not sure how to mount it but I do have a dedicated 220 line that was hooked up to my hot tub. And to clarify, I am going to go with an Auber. To me, that seems to be the best way to go. Any thoughts? This is going to happen pretty fast as hunting season is in full swing and I need to have a reliable heat source...


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## anglerman (Oct 11, 2017)

Have you had any thought about running this on pellets? Buying a pellet hopper assemble and mounting it through the side. I did this to an old propane vertical cabinet and absolutely love it... the cost is a bit high but you could always use the unit in a different smoker down the road.


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## kirby27 (Oct 11, 2017)

anglerman said:


> Have you had any thought about running this on pellets? Buying a pellet hopper assemble and mounting it through the side. I did this to an old propane vertical cabinet and absolutely love it... the cost is a bit high but you could always use the unit in a different smoker down the road.


I already have a Green Mountain Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett and I use the Boone a lot to smoke smaller quantities. This is a pretty good size Freezer and has plenty of room to do a lot of meat at one time. I am using an A-Maze-N smoker tray with pellets but I need a consistent heat source for longer cooking times without adding too much smoke.  As you can see, my green mountain is modified so I can hang sausages and jerkey, but I need more space that is the reason for the larger smoker.
View attachment 340162
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