# Jumping into cheese w/both feet!



## fpmich (Apr 24, 2014)

*Why both feet?*   Because I'm too trusting of this forum.  LOL

One foot is in cheese, (never done it before), and the other foot, is in Todd's AMNPS, (never tried that before either).

So being a trusting guy, I bought over 60 bucks worth of cheeses to try.  That's a heck of a first test of two new things!

My smoker survived the winter in good shape, and the other day I finally got it all cleaned up and spiffy again.

Did my 1st smoke of the year yesterday. CHEESE!

We bought over 60 bucks worth of cheese! WOW! Never done that before!

But it should last us all summer, so it isn't all that bad.

Tillamook Medium Cheddar, some mild cheddar, some herb flavored Havarti, a light American Cheese, Baby Swiss, and some Pepper Jack. Bought in hunks and cut about 1" thick, or so, for smoking. Got it from 2 different markets. NOT WALMART!  Just good small markets I trust.

Tried out my new toy which I had ordered over the winter. It just set in the unopened box teasing me for months, until I finally got to use it.

The A-Maze-n-Smoker for dust or pellets. It generates smoke with hardly any heat. Used in my smoker it didn't raise the temp much more than one degree, if that.  I didn't use any charcoal at all. True cold smoking.  I'm very pleased with how it performed for cold smoking.

Today was just what I wanted. Mid 50's, slight breeze...but.... *it was sunny!*

Because of the direct sun, and my smoker being black, it raised the temp inside the chamber to 80*. So I had to wait until late evening to start smoking the cheese. 

If it would've been cloudy, with the same outside temp, I could have enjoyed smoking in the day time. LOL

Here it is ... Cheese ready to go.













Cheese-resized-1.JPG



__ fpmich
__ Apr 24, 2014






The smoke generator is doing it's thing just dandy!

I put the stack extension on to increase air draw for smoke as I didn't have a fire going. 

This shot is just after I added it to the smoker.  Smoke settled down in a few minutes to perfect TBS.

Both vents wide open and smoker box in sfb near air intake.













Cheese-resized-2.JPG



__ fpmich
__ Apr 24, 2014






I wanted a 3 hour smoke, so I filled two rows. Then about the 1 1/2 - 1 3/4  hour mark, I lit the other end. At the end of three hours, cheese was done and pellets were almost all done as well. Exactly as I had planned it, using "the claimed time of smoke" per row.

*Todd's instructions do not exaggerate.*













Cheese-resized-7.JPG



__ fpmich
__ Apr 24, 2014






I left cheese uncovered 2 or 3 hours, then put into ziplocks , not quite sealed as some mentioned to do.  Contains smoke but lets any moisture evaporate, I guess.  Later today I will vac seal them all.  

I don't see any moisture at all, in bags, so I could've probably vac sealed last night.

Finished product waiting for packing.













Cheese-resized-5.JPG



__ fpmich
__ Apr 24, 2014






I"m very happy with Todd's smoker and the q-matz..  Left a review for smoker.

Now the hard part....waiting 3 - weeks before tasting.  Sure hope it taste as good as it looks and smells!

*Any tips/hints are welcome too!*


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## kingfishcam (Apr 24, 2014)

Congrats!  You have officially crossed the cheese smoker addiction bridge!  Great thread and some good looking cheese.  I too have been very happy with the TJohnson product line.


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## handymanstan (Apr 24, 2014)

Nice job on the cheese Frank. I like your tags on such a large smoke and I should have done that a few times myself.  What flavor pellets did you use?

Stan


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## poopypuss (Apr 24, 2014)

Looks great!

It's always nice when you don't end up with cheese sauce in you smoker.


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## smoking b (Apr 24, 2014)

Nice looking cheese man!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   You're gonna love that stuff once you get to try it  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   I see you smoking a lot more cheese in the future


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## seenred (Apr 24, 2014)

Looks great!  Nice job on that cheese!  You learned what many of us have...Todd's gadgets are the bomb!







Red


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## duffman (Apr 24, 2014)

Looks Great!!! The waiting is the worst part now.


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## fpmich (Apr 25, 2014)

*Thanks for the encouragement guys*.  I need that, when trying something out for first time.

I did notice that the cheese developed more color overnight while resting on table.  They were in ziplock only partially sealed.

They look beautifully light golden now.  (Sry, no pics, already packed them away.)  I hope they taste as good as they look when I can't refrain from waiting any longer.

I "*KNOW*" I left a review last night, on the AMNPS, but for the life of me I can't find it.  Waiting for moderation maybe?  I don't know.

*HANDYMANSTAN,* I used Mostly Cherry.  When I read directions and saw that cherry is hard to keep lit, I was worried.  It said to put a single layer of oak or maple pellets under it to help keep it lit.  Yikes!  I didn't order either of those.

So I used a layer of Alder underneath, thinking it is also light flavored.  That seemed to work.  I also baked both pellets in oven for 15-20 minutes @ 300* before loading.  I think that helped too.

The tags I saw in another thread and said "That's for me"!  With my memory these days I know I forget everything and where I put it.

I get up from my chair walk a couple of steps, and forget what I was going for.  Sad, but true! 

Lists and notes are my new friends now. LOL

*Note: * The untagged one in finished product is Havarti.  I waited an hour before adding to smoker, so it only got 2 hours.

Now my wife is upset.  I told here I wasn't going to smoke it as I thought maybe it was too soft, then changed my mind.

She came home with some cracker all primed to have some Havarti & cracker only to find out she had to wait a couple of weeks!  LOL

*poopypuss*,... "cheese sauce in the smoker".  LOL  That is why I never tried it before getting Todd's gadget.

*Smoking B,* Yep, I see more cheese in my future too, if this turns out as good as it looks.

I made an offer to smoke some for other family members, but no takers.  I'm betting when I take some to them, they will bring me some cheese to smoke next fall.

*kingfishcam,* yes I think I may have crossed the cheese bridge.

*SeenRed*, thanks for the compliment.  Yes, even though I've only used the amnps once, I think I will be very happy with it.

*DUFFMAN,* Yes the waiting will be hard, but the hardest part is over now.  I actually vac packaged ALL the cheeses without tasting a single one!  LOL  (Patting myself on the back.)


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## fpmich (Apr 25, 2014)

*Now I have some questions.*

*  .*

*  .*

*  .*

*1.  Is it necessary to wrap cheese in plastic wrap before vacuum packing,* (I did), or is that just to keep bags clean for next use?

*2.  If I got some cheese paper from a shop,* and wrapped it in that before vac packing, would it steal smoke flavor from cheese as much a paper towels will, that someone mentioned in another thread?

*3.  Should I put cheese in smoker cold, or room temp before smoking? *

*4.  Any need to let it air dry a bit before smoking?*

*5.  Is it normal for cheese to darken more overnight resting after smoke,* or did I add too much smoke at end, by lighting other end of pellets for last hour or so for heavier smoke?  (I smoked 3 hours total)

Thank you for your comments and for any help provided.


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## jarjarchef (Apr 25, 2014)

fpmich said:


> *Now I have some questions.*
> * .*
> * .*
> * .*
> ...


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## duffman (Apr 25, 2014)

I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## fpmich (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks jarjarchef.

I guess other than wrapping, I got everything right the first time.  That don't happen often with me.


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## jarjarchef (Apr 25, 2014)

Not saying wrapping is wrong. Just that I don't.  

Did not say earlier,  but the cheese came out looking great! Yes the wait is rough, especially when the wife and kids are bugging you to try some. 

Not sure if you like pimento cheese spread. It is a southern thing mostly. But making it with the smoked cheese is amazing! It is also very easy to do. Great topping for a burger or even in a grilled cheese sandwich......


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## fpmich (Apr 29, 2014)

I understand jarjar.  I did it mostly to keep the bags cleaner.

Pimento cheese spread.  Wife loves it and I like it a bit too.  But we've only had it from jars.

Wasn't aware it was in block form as well.

Please post your recipe to make the spread here, or PM me with it.  (Or link, if you've already posted elsewhere).

Always looking for things to keep wife happy so she lets me cook the really good stuff.  lol


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## humdinger (Apr 29, 2014)

Hey Frank,
Glad your on board with the wonderful world of smoked cheese! Looks like jar jar has got you covered on all points. One thing I would like to add is there is some flexibility with resting the cheese before vac sealing, so don't fret. When I first started smoking cheese, I would novicely vac seal almost immediately after pulling it from the smoke.

That would give me some slight moisture in the bag once vac sealed, but I found it didn't impact overall taste. However I now rest for about 6-12 hours overnight in the fridge with the cheese spaced out on a tray and plastic wrap covering the whole tray, and the results are great everytime.( Once I forgot to vac seal a batch for 3 days and had no averse effects).

Also, if you are going insane waiting to taste the cheese, I personally feel that since you used very light tasting, mild wood and only did three hours, you could probably crack into a bag after this first week. As you probably know, the waiting helps disperse any bitterness as well as allow the smoke flavor to penetrate throughout the block for a more complex aged flavor.

IMHO, since you used cherry (and not Oak like I did once for a 4 hour smoke!!!) there shouldn't be much bitterness to begin with...the only thing you would be possibly losing is a more complex smoky flavor gained from aging. (However, since you smoked so much, you'll get that experience down the road as the rest of the batch ages.) So I say surprise the wife and crack out the Havarti this weekend. If it's good (which it should be), you're a hero.....if its too bitter, vac it again and don't tell her! lol ;) Hope it helps, and again this is just my 2 cents.


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## knuckle47 (Apr 29, 2014)

Good to see that your cold smoke was a success.  If I had to add anything... Don't worry about stealing a taste test.  Once you taste it just out of the smoker, you'll be happy to wait a few weeks.  Its like licking an ashtray.....yuk!

I also let them sit in the refrigerator overnight but the second you open the fridge door in the morning, the smell  of smoke is very strong like opening the doors on a cold wood stove.  Luckily I use a second fridge in the garage if not, my wife would not enjoy the process ... ;)

In Northern New England cob smoked is a well liked local favorite...cheeses, hams, bacon.  Todd sells corn cob and it's terrific with a great flavor on cheese.  You can also save your "corn on the cob" empties...dry them , chop them and they burn well.


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## fpmich (Apr 30, 2014)

Humdinger said:


> So I say surprise the wife and crack out the Havarti this weekend. If it's good (which it should be), you're a hero.....if its too bitter, vac it again and don't tell her! lol ;) Hope it helps, and again this is just my 2 cents.


*I like that idea, you sneaky guy!  I'll do it!*    LOL

She was so upset, that she bought some more Havarti, and threaten my life!

If I didn't let her use her crackers up without making her wait 3-4 weeks that Havarti, I was going to die!  .  I did get to taste it once though.  LOL


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## humdinger (Apr 30, 2014)

fpmich said:


> *I like that idea, you sneaky guy!  I'll do it!*   LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 OH boy...so she had to go get more? She must be serious about her havarti then.....or maybe she just had a serious craving and was bummed when she learned you smoked it! Good luck and let me know how it goes.


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## fpmich (May 5, 2014)

Yeah, she was bummed when she came home with cracker and the Havarti was in smoker.

*I myself, caved in tonight after only 12 days. * I just open one pack of Tillamook medium cheddar, and it is awesome!

Next time I will go for a 4 hour smoke.  Would like a little more flavor, but it pretty good right now though.  Especially after only 12 day wait.

I left cheddar and Monterrey Jack at room temp.  Rest of it went into fridge in beginning.  Then I took it all out and left at room temp for 3 days and put back in fridge.

*Question:*

Any reason not to leave softer cheeses like Havarti and American on counter as well for a couple weeks, if vacuum sealed?


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## daveomak (May 5, 2014)

fpmich said:


> *Question:*
> Any reason not to leave softer cheeses like Havarti and American on counter as well for a couple weeks, if vacuum sealed?




Botulism is the reason I wouldn't do that.....


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## atomicsmoke (May 5, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> Botulism is the reason I wouldn't do that.....



Not gonna happen. It's not a soft cheese (high water and low fat content).


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## daveomak (May 5, 2014)

atomicsmoke said:


> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> > Botulism is the reason I wouldn't do that.....
> ...




What's "not gonna happen" ??????


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## daveomak (May 5, 2014)

My concerns of botulism arise when considering the handling of the cheese....   On the counter... slicing .... in the smoker on shelves that are not "clean"....  a smoker that is not "clean".....  then handling again to vac-pac......    
I'm not sure all that handling and contact, with surfaces that "could" be contaminated from other sources, would not be a source for the bacteria or spores from those "other sources"...    especially considering the time and temp in the smoker in the perfect temp range for growth.....

I'm NOT the food police.... the above are my thoughts, and things I consider when I prepare foods.....  You may do as you wish....

The toxin may be destroyed at 185 F but the spores are not destroyed .....

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 


Botulism (Latin, botulinus) (pronounced /ˈbɒtʃʉlɪzəm/) is a rare and potentially fatal paralytic illness caused by a toxin produced by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum. The disease begins with weakness, trouble seeing, feeling tired, and trouble speaking.This may then be followed by weakness of the arms, chest muscles and legs. The disease does not usually affect consciousness or cause a fever.[1]

Botulism can occur in a few different ways. The bacterial spores that cause it are common in both soil and water. They produce botulinum toxin when exposed to low oxygen levels and certain temperatures. Foodborne botulism happens when food containing the toxin are eaten. Infant botulism happens when the bacteria develops in the intestines and releases toxin. Typically this only happens in children less than six months of age as after that protective mechanisms develop. Wound botulism is found most often among those who inject street drugs. In this situation spores enter a wound and, in the absence of oxygen, release toxin. It is not passed directly between people. The diagnosis is confirmed by finding the toxin or bacteria in the person in question.[1]

Prevention is primarily by proper food preparation. The toxin is destroyed by heating to more than 85 °C (185 °F) for greater than 5 minutes. Avoiding giving children less than one year of age honey is also recommended. Treatment is with an antitoxin. In those who lose their ability to breathe on their own, mechanical ventilation potentially for months may be required. Antibiotics may be used for wound botulism. Death occurs in 5 to 10% of people.


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## fpmich (May 5, 2014)

*As usual, I didn't find the thread warning label until afterword.*   LOL

*I don't know where I read it, but read it I did,* and by different authors too.  I've no idea if it was this forum, some other forum, or someone's blog.

But they said to leave vacuum packed cheese at room temp for faster again and fridge for slower aging.  Higher temp equals faster aging is how one put it.

Now as for my cheese. 

When I said room temp, that wasn't quite accurate.  Warmer temp than fridge would better describe it.

I had them in a storage container set on cement floor on an unheated porch.  So the temps varied from 38* to maybe 50-55* on a warm day. for 3-4 hours before dropping again.  I'm still leaving my beer on same porch floor, and most nights it's not too warm to drink without putting it in fridge an hour.

So I think my cheese will be okay, (I already ate some),  but next time I will age at fridge temps.  Period.  Thanks Dave.

I have GOT to wean myself off Google and just stay on this forum for smoking stuff!!!

But of course without Google I never would have found this site.


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## fpmich (May 20, 2014)

Well, I got away with it *"this time", *Dave.  But I won't risk it again, at anything other than fridge temps.

Live and learn.  Luckily I got to live.  But I'm not a big risk taker, when shown the proper way for foods.

I bet I wash my hands and bleach the sinks more than most food establishments do.  LOL

I put a small amount of bleach in my rinse water for dishes,  Yes I'm safety aware, but sometimes, I'm ignorant of some things, and other times just stupid.

Wife will vouch for stupid.  LOL

Anyway...  It ended well for us, thank God.

My MIL passed away and so wife was out of state and then tied up with funerals, (plural), and sorting Mom's things in her house, along with her brothers.

So she didn't get to try her Havarti until last night. 

We had a piece of same Havarti from same store, not smoked, and the one I had smoked.   She couldn't believe the difference.  She Loved the stuff! 

I got a couple of bites, but she is taking the rest up to her mom's house to share with her step dad and brother this week. 

(They are still going through things)  Death is stressful on the living.  Say a prayer for her please.

We also had a small piece of _"Smoked"_ Tillamook Cheddar from same shop, to compare.  Home smoked beat them hands down, even thought theirs had aged much longer than mine.

PS>  She has forgiven me for smoking her Havarti on the day she was planning on eating it.  LOL


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## humdinger (May 20, 2014)

Hey Frank, Glad everything worked out safely with the cheese. Sorry to hear about your MIL. I'll keep your wife and her family in my thoughts. It's good to know she forgave you for smoking her cheese!


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