# Testing new smoke generator with water cooler



## navigator

Maiden voyage, I put it together and filled it with pellets, lit it and turned the fan on and its been going for an hour now, the last picture is with the smaller fan and I have it set at about 30% I will try to get a video uploaded before it gets dark out.













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## BGKYSmoker

WOW

Thats pretty neat.


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## mr t 59874

Looks like quite the rig you have there.  Any info on it?


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## navigator

Mr T 59874 said:


> Looks like quite the rig you have there.  Any info on it?


Here is video with the smaller of the 2 fans he sent with it, starts and ends on the lowest setting.


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## mr t 59874

Navigator,  Looks like a larger fan would be overkill.  Couple questions.  Do the pellets burn from the top down?  Is that a water jacket on the right of the two bottom pics.  If so I would think it to be a good liquid smoke condenser also.

Tom


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## navigator

Yes from top down. I would think so, you might have to figure out a way to filter it. There is a small leak I have to get welded at the spot the ball valve fitting is welded into the main tube so I just tested it dry.


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## mr t 59874

I was just wondering as my Smoke Daddy burns bottom up with good results.  Coffee filters should work.

Tom


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## navigator

I suppose it could, it came with no instructions so I just lit it on the top figuring I didn't want the fan blowing directly on the burning pellets.


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## mr t 59874

Navigator said:


> I suppose it could, it came with no instructions so I just lit it on the top figuring I didn't want the fan blowing directly on the burning pellets.


I can see then that some experimenting is in order then (the fun part).  Is that an aquarium type air pump on the bottom right of picture one?

The fan will be blowing on the pellets when they burn down anyway.  My concern of burning top down would be blowing ash onto product.

Is the water jacket repaired yet?  That baby may burn pretty hot with a lot of air movement. I can see that wood chunks would work in it also.

Later, T


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## navigator

Mr T 59874 said:


> I can see then that some experimenting is in order then (the fun part).  Is that an aquarium type air pump on the bottom right of picture one?
> 
> The fan will be blowing on the pellets when they burn down anyway.  My concern of burning top down would be blowing ash onto product.
> 
> Is the water jacket repaired yet?  That baby may burn pretty hot with a lot of air movement. I can see that wood chunks would work in it also.
> 
> Later, T


I will have to try it from the bottom up. I burned it for 13 hours on the first run no ash detected but I did get a puddle of liquid smoke, the overnight temperature dropped into the single digits, at least I had planned ahead and put a pan under it just in case. I got some of that smoke on my hands while cleaning up and I still have the brown stain and slight smell after 4-5 washings and 24 plus hours later.

the bottom right of the first pic is the blower, its attached to a small stainless damper box.

I also have a 3 meter stainless corrugated tube that is the same as was used inside the water cooler, I plan to use that to connect it to my smoker, should assist in cooling as well and some flexibility in mounting locations. I don't know when I will get that weld repaired, I leave for vacation later this week. 

I might try a bottom burn later today.


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## chef jimmyj

What do you have to do to get that Billowy White Smoke to turn to some TBS?...JJ


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## navigator

Once it settled down on the lower fan settings it put out nice.


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## mr t 59874

Flavor and preservation depends on wood and smoke management.  Although most prefer TBS, don't let the white smoke scare you, it can be very beneficial once one learns how to use it.   Experience will be the best teacher here. 

Tom


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## zahlgren

Very interesting! Nice job!


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## chef jimmyj

Mr T 59874 said:


> Flavor and preservation depends on wood and smoke management.  Although most prefer TBS, don't let the white smoke scare you, it can be very beneficial once one learns how to use it.   Experience will be the best teacher here.
> 
> Tom


I have to disagree to a point here Tom. That amount of White Smoke Pumped into a Big Smoke House...No problem what so ever but the same going into a 55 Gallon UDS or a Refer Conversion and you get Nasty tasting meat. There is a reason smoke sites make a big deal about Thin Blue Smoke. Most guy are weekend warriors with small smokers. I learned the hard way. I all but gave up smoking meat because I thought if you weren't getting a ton of smoke you were not doing it right and my Q tasted like it was smoked in a House Fire!...JJ


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## mr t 59874

Chef JimmyJ said:


> I have to disagree to a point here Tom. That amount of White Smoke Pumped into a Big Smoke House...No problem what so ever but the same going into a 55 Gallon UDS or a Refer Conversion and you get Nasty tasting meat. There is a reason smoke sites make a big deal about Thin Blue Smoke. Most guy are weekend warriors with small smokers. I learned the hard way. I all but gave up smoking meat because I thought if you weren't getting a ton of smoke you were not doing it right and my Q tasted like it was smoked in a House Fire!...JJ


Not to risk thread jumping, I have to disagree with you to a point also JJ.  It comes down as stated earlier, wood and smoke management which naturally would include timing.  The time a product is in a small smoker will be different from a larger one using the same amount of smoke being generated. If meat is nasty tasting, obviously it was in the smoke too long.  On the other side many using pellet smokers/grills complain that they don't get enough smoke flavor.  Note: We are talking white smoke, not yellow or black which would produce the nasty tasting creosote.

The following is a thread that I started for people learning the basics to smoking.  Hopefully it will explain my opinion towards the color of smoke and how to manage it.   

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/107629/smoked-bread-crackers-and-snacks

Tom


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## navigator

Besides cold smoking I also bought it to add some additional smoke to my FEC-120 (convection pellet smoker)  with the convection fan running I'm sure if I use it to add smoke to the first few hours of a low and slow my meat wont be tasting like it was smoked in a house fire ;)


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## chef jimmyj

Tom, I respect your knowledge and results but your idea that white smoke is ok, is just not supported. When it comes to the intensity of smoke flavor there is no disagreement that wood and timing is a factor. I would not use Mesquite, or 100% Hickory for more than a few hours, just not to my taste. But I and many here routinely smoke for 2 hours to several days with a variety of woods, whether Dust, Pellets, Chips, Chunks, Splits or Logs and I will challenge you to find a single member who deliberately strives to generate " White Smoke " under any situation!

Whether they smoke 1 hour or 1 week...Thin Blue Smoke is the Goal. I can't help but think... There is a reason there are over 250 proud members of the Order of the Thin Blue Smoke and a Joke Thread called the Secret Order of the Billowing White Smoke...

Pellet Grills are primarily designed to generate a lot of Heat not Smoke so the flavor will be weak.  Pellet Smoke Generators don't produce enough flavor?...There are a whole lot of AMNPS owners that will totally disagree here.

As far as Yellow and Black Smoke a search turned up zero threads on the subject. However search White Smoke and there are 219 pages...Every one warning that there is a problem...JJ


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## jarjarchef

does the smoke pass through the water like a water pipe or does the pipe go through the water?

I for one am not a fan of billowing white smoke for doing a cook longer than 30 min. For me it gives a bitter taste. However if it is passing through the water and heating the water to also get water vapor with it, that can be deceiving. I on occasion use a Pitmaster Vault and it is a vertical water smoker and puts out a billowing white smoke and at first I was concerned till I realized it was water vapor mostly.

From what I could see on the video it looks like a smoke gun principle and the only thing I have seen them used for is quick smoke, mostly show for guest in the dinning room.

Below I have a couple picture of the gun I have used and a presentation it was used for.

That is a very cool looking toy. Make sure you practice and keep notes to get the results you are looking for.....


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## mr t 59874

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Tom, I respect your knowledge and results but your idea that white smoke is ok, is just not supported. When it comes to the intensity of smoke flavor there is no disagreement that wood and timing is a factor. I would not use Mesquite, or 100% Hickory for more than a few hours, just not to my taste. But I and many here routinely smoke for 2 hours to several days with a variety of woods, whether Dust, Pellets, Chips, Chunks, Splits or Logs and I will challenge you to find a single member who deliberately strives to generate " White Smoke " under any situation!
> 
> *I obviously have not made myself clear here and am not going to challenge anyone's knowledge of smoking but rather try to add to it . I believe that the most desirable smoke is the TBS, but it's my belief that there are more ways to smoke food rather than using only TBS. As far as support the best explanation of my theory can be found, unfortunately it is in a different forum.  If someone feels that the only way to smoke foods is with TBS and they get their desired results, I say, stick with it*
> 
> Whether they smoke 1 hour or 1 week...Thin Blue Smoke is the Goal. I can't help but think... There is a reason there are over 250 proud members of the Order of the Thin Blue Smoke and a Joke Thread called the Secret Order of the Billowing White Smoke...
> 
> .*   If you are of the adventurous type there are many smoke generators and techniques that produce only white smoke.  Just like any tool, you have to know how to use it.   I am glad to hear that there are over 250 proud members of the Order of the TBS, but it will take more than that to convince me that I have been smoking foods incorrectly for over 55 years.  If they want to joke about it, it's my opinion, the joke is on them.*
> 
> *  White smoke can contribute positively to the flavor and color of smoked foods and if not used correctly the results can be bitter rather than smoky.   I stress again smoke management and will give a couple examples of using a heavy smoke for flavor.*
> 
> *1.  Cold smoking poultry for 15 - 20 minutes prior to finishing  on a grill.  *
> 
> *2.  Placing a just cooked steak in a heavy cold smoke environment during the resting period for two to three minutes will add a tremendous amount of flavor. *
> 
> Pellet Grills are primarily designed to generate a lot of Heat not Smoke so the flavor will be weak.  Pellet Smoke Generators don't produce enough flavor?...There are a whole lot of AMNPS owners that will totally disagree here.
> 
> *  I was referring to the pellet smoker/grills such as the Fast Eddy's where many add the AMNPS, tube smokers or other device to gain more smoke during a limited  cooking  time.  I believe that is what Navigators plans are with his new smoke generator. *
> 
> *  I do not disagree about the AMNPS as I have one and if you remember that is what was used when I smoked my country ham for 128 hours.  I presently  have three more hams curing and will be smoking them in a couple months.  My plan on these as the temperature will be up a little is to use the AMNPS in conjunction with a Smoke Daddy in order to cut the smoking time down.*
> 
> As far as Yellow and Black Smoke a search turned up zero threads on the subject. However search White Smoke and there are 219 pages...Every one warning that there is a problem...JJ
> 
> *Are you saying that I am suggesting members do something dangerous?*


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## mr t 59874

jarjarchef,  I hope the Easter Bunny lays one of those in my basket.


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## shannon127

Here is the best analogy I can think of:  If you have ever smoked a pipe.  As long as you let the pipe burn you do not get the bitter creosote flavor.  But if you draw too hard too often, it quickly gets bitter.  I think the same is true with wood.  If it burns quickly, you will get far more billowing white smoke which is bitter tasting.  A slower burn that is not over stoked (TBS), will give you better penetration and less bitter taste.  Everyone's tastes are different.  Hell there are actually people who like the flavor of Moxie, so why not bitter surface smoked meat


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## diggingdogfarm

re: thin smoke

Hop on youtube and check out some of the videos of folks smoking stuff in Poland., I've watched dozens and dozens and there are very few that I'd characterize as being thin smoke. They really like to pour on the smoke! I was rather shocked! :icon_eek:

Draw your own conclusions.




~Martin


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## chef jimmyj

I guess my choice of words has lead to a misunderstanding...My original point was White Smoke is NOT desirable in " the small smokers most of us have "...

You " LIKE " the result you get from 55 years of using White Smoke that is fine, but are you pumping that into a 2 to 4 cubic foot smoke chamber that, again, the majority of us have, for many hours?  I have only been smoking for 25 years and " KNOW " White smoke makes my food, that which I smoke 2 hours to 2 days in an NB Horizontal Offset and now MES 40, taste like it was smoked with Telephone Poles...

Regarding your statement of using white smoke for short bursts of flavor...*  *

*White smoke can contribute positively to the flavor and color of smoked foods and if not used correctly the results can be bitter rather than smoky.   I stress again smoke management and will give a couple examples of using a heavy smoke for flavor.*

*1.  Cold smoking poultry for 15 - 20 minutes prior to finishing  on a grill. *

*2.  Placing a just cooked steak in a heavy cold smoke environment during the resting period for two to three minutes will add a tremendous amount of flavor.  *

I agreed with you on smoke management. However, I am sure that fancy Smoke generator is not Cheap...Seems like a BIG investment to smoke 2 to 20 minutes or even an Hour because beyond that, any additional time pumping White Smoke into a small smoker, will create a flavor that will not be desirable for most.

Quote...As far as Yellow and Black Smoke a search turned up zero threads on the subject. However search White Smoke and there are 219 pages...Every one warning that there is a problem...JJ

*Are you saying that I am suggesting members do something dangerous? "*

How you came to the above conclusion is beyond me...What my point was/is, up to your statement there has been no mention of Yellow or Black smoke on any of the SMF forums. White Smoke threads, countless, are followed up with warnings that there is a problem with the Op's fire or technique and that without correction may result in a Creosote or undesirable flavors on the meat...

There has never been a disagreement that Smoke , Herbs , Spices, Marinades, etc...Are flavoring tools to be properly managed. My only and continued point is that Pumping Billowing White Smoke into a " Small Smoker " will give undesirable results. You chose to take the discussion further or prove me wrong or whatever with," White Smoke is useful if applied for a few minutes. " OK, I agree...But how many of our members smoke for a few minutes? The Forrest from the Tree is Thin Blue Smoke is the goal in most Smoking scenarios. All I wanted to know was if Navigators new toy could be adjusted to give TBS...JJ


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## mr t 59874

Chef JimmyJ said:


> I guess my choice of words has lead to a misunderstanding...My original point was White Smoke is NOT desirable in " the small smokers most of us have "...
> 
> I have small smokers also and White Smoke can still be managed.
> 
> You " LIKE " the result you get from 55 years of using White Smoke that is fine, but are you pumping that into a 2 to 4 cubic foot smoke chamber that, again, the majority of us have, for many hours?  I have only been smoking for 25 years and " KNOW " White smoke makes my food, that which I smoke 2 hours to 2 days in an NB Horizontal Offset and now MES 40, taste like it was smoked with Telephone Poles...
> 
> No JJ, I do not smoke for hours using White Smoke like I do using a lighter smoke.  You couldn't  have better described the problem of bitter taste for me, thanks.
> 
> Regarding your statement of using white smoke for short bursts of flavor...*  *
> 
> *White smoke can contribute positively to the flavor and color of smoked foods and if not used correctly the results can be bitter rather than smoky.   I stress again smoke management and will give a couple examples of using a heavy smoke for flavor.*
> 
> *1.  Cold smoking poultry for 15 - 20 minutes prior to finishing  on a grill. *
> 
> *2.  Placing a just cooked steak in a heavy cold smoke environment during the resting period for two to three minutes will add a tremendous amount of flavor.  *
> 
> I agreed with you on smoke management. However, I am sure that fancy Smoke generator is not Cheap...Seems like a BIG investment to smoke 2 to 20 minutes or even an Hour because beyond that, any additional time pumping White Smoke into a small smoker, will create a flavor that will not be desirable for most.
> 
> Pumping White Smoke into a small smoker for an hour is way to long for anything I can think of.  As for expense, just think of the people who will spend a couple grand on a cook stove and use it to fry an egg.
> 
> Quote...As far as Yellow and Black Smoke a search turned up zero threads on the subject. However search White Smoke and there are 219 pages...Every one warning that there is a problem...JJ
> 
> *Are you saying that I am suggesting members do something dangerous? "*
> 
> How you came to the above conclusion is beyond me...What my point was/is, up to your statement there has been no mention of Yellow or Black smoke on any of the SMF forums. White Smoke threads, countless, are followed up with warnings that there is a problem with the Op's fire or technique and that without correction may result in a Creosote or undesirable flavors on the meat...
> 
> I don't understand why my question was beyond you.  I simply did not take the time to read the 219 pages on White Smoke.  A simple yes or no would have been sufficient.  Probably the reason no information can be found on yellow or black smoke is because no one smokes with it, but it does exist.
> 
> There has never been a disagreement that Smoke , Herbs , Spices, Marinades, etc...Are flavoring tools to be properly managed. My only and continued point is that Pumping Billowing White Smoke into a " Small Smoker " will give undesirable results. You chose to take the discussion further or prove me wrong or whatever with," White Smoke is useful if applied for a few minutes. " OK, I agree...But how many of our members smoke for a few minutes? The Forrest from the Tree is Thin Blue Smoke is the goal in most Smoking scenarios. All I wanted to know was if Navigators new toy could be adjusted to give TBS...JJ
> 
> Did I not state all along the importance in smoke management?  I do believe you have discovered the problem many have in using White Smoke which was my intent all along, not to prove you or any one else wrong.  I do believe you started the discussion in your # 15 post above.
> 
> In response to the analogy posted above. From the perspective of a pervious pipe smoker, your analogy simply does not make sense to me. First of all, I don't use woods with high amounts of tar, nicotine and other additives in it. Even when my pipes were smoked lightly, they still required constant cleaning because of the smoke and gases drawn through the stem.  The rest as they say simply went up in smoke.
> 
> If the wood we all use to smoke our foods can be so bad, we must be careful in it's use or we can expect the following.
> 
> Because of first and second hand smoke, grills and smokers will be banned or removed from our parks and recreational areas.
> 
> No use of grills within 500 feet of another household.
> 
> Hazardous warnings will be required on all smokers, grills and wood boxes.
> 
> Failure to comply could result in fines or confiscations.
> 
> For those who would like more technical information on smoke density, PM me and I will pass my E-mail address on to you, then you can ask and I will pass the link on to you.
> 
> As Forest Gump would say " That's all I have to say on the matter ".
> 
> Keep in mind that sheep will follow their Shepard, even when he's lost.
> 
> Tom


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## diggingdogfarm

Why not just post the link?


~Martin


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## chef jimmyj

For the benefit of anyone that has been following this thread and are either Confused or Laughing at the discussion, I offer the Following as I see it...

If you wish to get a lot of Smoke on an item that can only be smoked for less than 1 hour...or...you choose to smoke less than 1 hour and want intense smoke flavor, White Smoke is an option...

If you plan to Smoke longer than 1 hour find a method of making Thin Blue Smoke as White Smoke for extended periods will make your food taste Bitter. One of the fabulous TBS Generators offered by and designed for the exclusive generation of TBS for extended periods of time from... http://www.amazenproducts.com ...Is an excellent an affordable choice...

If you can afford it...High end Stoves make Great Eggs and expensive White Smoke Generators are available for the times you wish to smoke for only a couple of minutes...

If the Smoker you have is making White Smoke and you are not adding a few minutes of flavor to a resting Steak or Raw Chicken, the following link has 200 pages and some 5000 threads with recommendations on how to fix the problem and achieve Thin Blue Smoke...http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/newsearch?search=white+smoke

As I have only seen Yellow Smoke at burning Chemical Plants and Black Smoke at burning Tire Dumps, I defer to others to explain the usefulness of these types of smoke in flavoring meat, the flavor profile you can expect and how to properly generate such colored smoke...

If you Suck Too Hard on a Pipe it tastes like Billowing White Smoke, Nasty...

It is the part of the good Shepard to Shear his flock Not to Skin it...

Have a good day...JJ


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## navigator

ChefJimmyJ, as I stated in the first post it was the first time I fired it up. I  threw some pellets into it to see it make some smoke, I actually plan to use mostly wood chunks in it. I didn't think the 


> What do you have to do to get that Billowy White Smoke to turn to some TBS?


 comment was very tactful, I really don't care if you don't like the generator but you don't have to keep stirring the pot on this thread, I thought as a moderator you were supposed to prevent that type of behavior?

For example If I didn't like stick burners I wouldn't go hijack others threads and say something like "what do you have to do to NOT over smoke all your food?"

There is a great article about  Barbeque Wood & Smoke out on the internet that is a very good read.
[h3] [/h3]


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## mr t 59874

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Why not just post the link?
> 
> 
> ~Martin


Martin, My reason is that it is in another BBQ forum and I did not want to  promote it in this forum.  If some one gives me the permission, it will be done.

JJ, I was making myself clear about the color of smoke we were discussing.


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## chef jimmyj

Navigator said:


> ChefJimmyJ, as I stated in the first post it was the first time I fired it up. I  threw some pellets into it to see it make some smoke, I actually plan to use mostly wood chunks in it. I didn't think the
> 
> comment was very tactful, I really don't care if you don't like the generator but you don't have to keep stirring the pot on this thread, I thought as a moderator you were supposed to prevent that type of behavior?
> 
> For example If I didn't like stick burners I wouldn't go hijack others threads and say something like "what do you have to do to NOT over smoke all your food?"
> 
> There is a great article about  Barbeque Wood & Smoke out on the internet that is a very good read.
> [h3] [/h3]


First off , what about my question was offensive to you? There is what looks like a dial on that generator and I asked a simple Question!...What do you have to do to get the Billowy White Smoke to turn to some TBS?  It may be a Great Generator but regardless of my feeling, it is useless if all it does is blow White Smoke. So by asking that, Mr.T thinks I need to be shown the value of White Smoke, with the bottom line being it's good for a Few Minutes!?! I simply responded and if Mr.T or anyone wished to continue, providing examples to make his point, there are no rules against continued Discussion, Disagreement or Debate, with the exception of no Cursing, no Rude Arguing and no Disparaging comments about another member Post, Education, Abilities or Intent... None of that occurred from either one of us! Additionally the thread is on Smoke Generators specifically that model and its ability go generate smoke. How is it a Hijack to discuss the type of smoke it makes, if it is adjustable and if not, it's limitation? As far as my status as a Moderator I am under no obligation to Not Comment or Defend myself or opinions just because it may lead to further discussion. I only responded and in no insulting way to anything here...Now I will drop out as to not stir the pot further...JJ


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## navigator

> If you can afford it...High end Stoves make Great Eggs and expensive White Smoke Generators are available for the times you wish to smoke for only a couple of minutes...


I get it you hate smoke that isn't thin and blue and expensive stoves and smoke generators :)


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## chef jimmyj

Oh yeah...Tongue in Cheek comments are allowed too...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...Guys, I don't want hurt feelings just clarity. The more detailed info we provide on a piece of equipment or procedure the better off all who come here are...JJ


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## mr t 59874

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Oh yeah...Tongue in Cheek comments are allowed too...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Guys, I don't want hurt feelings just clarity. The more detailed info we provide on a piece of equipment or procedure the better off all who come here are...JJ


Navigator, I would love to use your new generator on my 22cf, cold smoker.  I can see where it could be used for an extended smoke that would be beneficial when smoking  my hams or rotating large amounts of other product. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





My take on the smoke discussion is that members can glean what they want from two entirely different viewpoints.  The ones that benefit the most are the younger cooks as they can learn more in a few days from forums like this and the net than what I learned in decades of trial and error.  I hate to even think of the time, effort and money spent learning what I know today much of what was through trial and error. There have been many times that something is learned and I slap myself on the head and say, "Why didn't I think of that".  Think of it this way, the money you save could be spent improving your equipment. (Well it might be worth a try anyway).

I don't pretend to know all there is to know about smoking foods, but am willing to share what is known while still able to do so and I believe, that is the purpose of this forum.  Sometimes one can take the lack of knowledge of others for granted and then realize that they have no idea what you are talking about, causing confusion.  

All in all, it's my opinion that a good discussion is healthy to a forum as it makes the gears turn in our heads.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Tom


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## navigator

I agree 100% I just think more people would like things toned down, I know when threads start going south I normally quit reading them. It's not always the question but how its presented that makes all the difference.

OK I am over it and back on track, No hard feelings, Chef JimmyJ, I'm sorry I got out of line when my feathers were ruffled.

My next test will be with some apple chunks and pellets mixed and burning it from the bottom. It would be nice to have a day where its above freezing to test too :)

I think I can even turn the blower off as long as I make a way for it to draw a little air on the bottom.

Price wise these are not bad its the shipping, I got the biggest one of the 3 sizes and the water cooler for $150 but the shipping was $130 but he will deal a a little :) It was here in 10 days or so.

You can find him here or on eBay, I think the overseas purchases are much safer through eBay and PayPal.


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## jfoshee

How is the water cooled smoker working out? I was thinking of ordering one? Any problems cleaning it or keeping it going?


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## jusjimi

Thanks for the link


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