# Bacon Cure without Sodium Nitrate



## tstruck

I plan on making my first bacon and I prefer to not use sodium nitrate.  My plan is to cure the pork belly for 6-7 days in the refrigerator with kosher salt, maple sugar, and maple syrup.  I plan on using 2 ounces of kosher salt, 1/4 cup maple sugar, and 1/4 cup maple syrup per 5lb of pork belly.  Then I plan on letting it sit in refrigerator for 1-2 days and then on the smoker at ~175 degrees until meat reaches 150 degrees.

My biggest questions:

Do I need to use sodium nitrates in the curing process?  I am thinking I don't since I will be smoking to 150 degrees.  
Does my salt/sugar/syrup ratios look appropriate for a 7 day cure?
Any other pointers would be great
Thanks for your feedback.


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## tstruck

Sorry, I believe this should have been posted in smoking, not cold smoking.  It doesn't look like I can delete and repost.


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## boykjo

Its in a good place. I am not an expert on bacon but I am pretty sure you need cure to make bacon. If using salt, all you will be doing is brining.


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## fpnmf

Just outa curiosity..why no cure/nitrites????

Most of use nitrite...not nitrate...


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## smoking b

Is there a reason you don't want to use a proper cure? Cure #1 does not contain sodium nitrate it contains sodium nitrite...


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## fpnmf

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/

http://lpoli.50webs.com/index.htm

http://ruhlman.com/2011/05/the-no-nitrites-added-hoax/  

http://ruhlman.com/2011/02/meat-curing-safety-issues/


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## tstruck

I'll be sharing the bacon with a group of people that eat "Paleo" or "Primal" so I would like to keep all ingredients natural.  I also try to cook with all natural ingredients if possible.  Nitrates don't really scare me personally as I eat a ton of sausage with nitrates.  However, I would like to keep it natural for the group I will be cooking for.  Thanks!


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## DanMcG

What you plan on doing might be safe but it will just be a pork roast at best. and are you leaving it the brine for 1 or 2 days or 7? you mentioned both


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## tstruck

DanMcG said:


> What you plan on doing might be safe but it will just be a pork roast at best. and are you leaving it the brine for 1 or 2 days or 7? you mentioned both


I would like to "dry cure" the pork belly for 7 days.  Then let it sit in the refrigerator for another day or two before smoking.  I really don't think the result will be a pork roast but would love to hear from others on this.  I would hate to waste some good meat.


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## chef jimmyj

Paleo or Primal....Like to keep ingredients all natural...Sodium Nitrite: 

[h3]Description[/h3]
Sodium nitrite is a naturally occurring mineral  salt that can be extracted, or be synthetically produced from sodium nitrate. It acts as a curing agent, a preservative, an anti-bacterial  agent to inhibit the growth of the botulism-causing bacterium (Clostridium botulinum), and as a colour retention agent  that fixes the colour  of meats and fish, making them look fresh and more appealing to buy.
[h3]Common Uses[/h3]
Used in processed and cured meats, luncheon meats, bacon, sausages, ham, hot dogs, salami, smoked and cured fish. Found naturally in root vegetables.

http://www.foodditive.com/additive/sodium-nitrite

Better Safe than Sorry! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			




  Merry Christmas...JJ


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## tstruck

I do believe curing salt #1 is synthetic and not from a natural source.  Has anyone had any experience with celery powder?


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## diggingdogfarm

tstruck said:


> Has anyone had any experience with celery powder?



Some celery powder isn't natural either.
Some of the natural nitrate has been pre-converted to nitrite.

~Martin


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## snorkelinggirl

My understanding is that a low-oxygen environment (as you would theoretically have when smoking, either hot or cold) is one of the risk factors for growth of the bacteria that can cause botulism. But I'm sure you are planning to cook your bacon after smoking, and cooking food to 180 deg F for 10 minutes will theoretically neutralize the botulinum toxin. However, this will not eliminate botulinum spores.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs104

If you are dead-set against using sodium nitrite in your cure mixture, you might be playing it safest if you just used your oven to bring the bacon up to 150 deg IT. That will eliminate the risk of the smoky anaerobic environment.

BTW, my understanding is that most paleo/primal eaters would also be against having sugar in your cure.  I belive that strict paleo/primal calls for eliminating added sugar from your diet. So ideally you would just use sea salt and seasonings in your cure if you are trying to be strict paleo. If you are going to go with sugar in your cure anyway, I vote for thowing in the appropriate amount of Cure #1, smoking the belly, and giving them _real_ bacon.


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## tstruck

SnorkelingGirl said:


> My understanding is that a low-oxygen environment (as you would theoretically have when smoking, either hot or cold) is one of the risk factors for growth of the bacteria that can cause botulism. But I'm sure you are planning to cook your bacon after smoking, and cooking food to 180 deg F for 10 minutes will theoretically neutralize the botulinum toxin. However, this will not eliminate botulinum spores.
> 
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs104
> 
> If you are dead-set against using sodium nitrite in your cure mixture, you might be playing it safest if you just used your oven to bring the bacon up to 150 deg IT. That will eliminate the risk of the smoky anaerobic environment.
> 
> BTW, you do realize that most paleo/primal eaters would also be against having sugar in your cure, right?  They avoid added sugar. You should just use sea salt and seasonings in your cure if you are trying to be strict paleo. If you are going to go with sugar in your cure, I vote for thowing in the appropriate amount of Cure #1, smoking the belly, and giving them _real_ bacon.


Thanks, I'm still weighing my options.  For some reason, maple syrup and maple sugar is considered an okay Paleo sweetener.  I've seen maple sweeteners it in some Paleo recipes.  I don't quite understand it fully and it's not real clear why this sweetener might be okay.  The way I look at it, a caveman would eat bacon no matter what way it is prepared.  Nitrates, sugar, or whatever.  I'm still not ruling out curing salt #1.  Thanks also for the in the oven vs. smoker.  But to be honest, I would choose curing salt #1 before I decided to put this in the oven.


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## venture

I would recommend your friends stay away from things like cauliflower, spinach, collard greens, broccoli, celery, and root vegetables such as carrots.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## joed617

I cure my own bacon without nitrates and have had great success. I use 1/2 sugar and 1/2 salt. MY grand parents are both from Italy and they would cure thier own prosciutto just using salt .. I remember my grandfather rubbing the salt in every day and hanging it in the basement. I have some pics of my bacon and I did over cure once and it came out like prosciutto .. It was the best bacon I ever had..

Joe


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## joed617

I found the pic of the bacon cured with no nitrates.













bth_100_1707.jpg



__ joed617
__ Dec 25, 2012






Joe


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## tstruck

Thanks Joe!  The bacon looks great.  I thought maybe it would look more grey without the nitrates.  Does your bacon with just salt and sugar taste like bacon?  Or does it taste like uncured pork?


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## daveomak

Joe, morning...   "Bacon" , salted pork belly looks good....   We try to encourage folks to use nitrites when curing foods to reduce the risk of food borne parasites, bacteria, pathogens and botulism, just to be on the safe end of the spectrum....  

Dry curing without nitrites takes some special precautions and a fair amount of expertise to be safe...   Nitrites eliminates a lot of those problems....

Most folks don't understand that nitrites are prevalent in their daily diets at much higher levels than can be found in properly cured bacon... 

Our motto is food safety first... we attempt to follow USDA, FSIS and other alphabet agencies guidelines to insure our members cure safely... 

Dave


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## joed617

Looks like bacon, smells like bacon and taste like bacon ... I'm guessing it's bacon .. :)

Joe


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## stevemax

I made bacon with pork belly, kosher salt, pepper, jalapenos and garlic. I brined it for 8 days in t refrigerator flipping it every two days. I did not use any other chemicals. I asked my local smoke shop if I needed the nitrate and they said no because the temp of fried bacon will exceed any temp necessary to kill any bacteria.


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## stevemax

Here is a good YouTube video that explains why you should (however) use sodium nitrite.


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## joed617

DaveOmak said:


> Joe, morning...   "Bacon" , salted pork belly looks good....   We try to encourage folks to use nitrites when curing foods to reduce the risk of food borne parasites, bacteria, pathogens and botulism, just to be on the safe end of the spectrum....
> 
> Dry curing without nitrites takes some special precautions and a fair amount of expertise to be safe...   Nitrites eliminates a lot of those problems....
> 
> Most folks don't understand that nitrites are prevalent in their daily diets at much higher levels than can be found in properly cured bacon...
> 
> Our motto is food safety first... we attempt to follow USDA, FSIS and other alphabet agencies guidelines to insure our members cure safely...
> 
> Dave


Morning Dave, I was responding to his post in which he stated that he "was't going to cure using nitrates" I myself do not use a cure but that's just me I've researched this method for years and having been raised by a family that cured meat  .  I'm not promoting not to use a cure, I was just stating facts that it can be done if you if you use caution and know what you are doing. I also dry age meats without a cure as well as my sausage. There is also a special light that can be used to kill air born bacteria  I believe it's called a UVC light and that light kills 99.9% of most bacteria, mold and so on.. I do agree with you Dave.. Safety comes first and nitrates will reduce this risk. I with you on this Dave:)


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## diggingdogfarm

re: the above video

Yikes!!!!! :icon_eek:
Bad video!
He doesn't know what he's doing!!!!
He uses WAY too much cure in that video!!!!!!
More than 2.5 times what is necessary!!!!!

re: nitrates/nitrites in bacon
Bacon without nitrite/nitrate isn't all that uncommon.
A lot of the old smoke houses in the south don't use it in their true dry-cured cold-smoked country bacon (don't try that at home unless you know what you're doing!)



~Martin


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## joed617

HI Martin,

Nitrates I think were used with salt back in the 1800's .. I do believe bacon predates that era if not mistaken. I have a commercial kitchen and I'm also a chef. My kitchen and my methods had to pass both the city health as well as an FDA inspection. I had to write the proccess of how the food was, cured prepared, handled  and my methos of smoking and they took samples and I had to pay for the lab tests, Had I not passed on any level I wouldn't be able to open, I've been in biz for 6 years now and knock on wood still going strong. I think there are lots to learn here and many methods to use. I joined back in 2006 many of us old guys and gals have moved on. I pop in every once and a while and see many new faces. I'm happy this place is thriving and I will give advice and will show there are many ways to cure meats .. including <yuck> vinegar... as in pickeling meat. Indians use to hang the meat at the Tee pee opening on top .. once the smoke incase the meat no bacteria could enter .. bacteria needs moisture to survive .. I don't know everything but I know what I know .. I wouldn't tell anyone how to cure thier meats .. but there are a few ways to do it safley. People starting out should use nitrates to be safe.  BTW.. I am still learning and researching on a constant basis. I will continue to grow :) I think <as my wife tells me> I'm a food geek.... laugh

Be Safe,

Joe


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## tamarockstar88

The bacon brine recipe I got from my chef he uses saltpeter which is sodium nitrate or cure #2. I'm just learning about curing bacon and I've heard people using both types of cures. Im wondering if the type of cure is based on how long you brine it? Like if you brine for only a few days cure1, or 15 days cure2. I use cure1 whenever I do jerky I have seen a lot of recipes where salt is the preservative, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Botulism is pretty nasty. There are a lot of cures that just use salt, and cure1 is 93.75% salt. It can be done but again, it's safety especially if you're feeding other people you wouldn't want to make them sick. I would use a basic brine recipe instead of dry curing, and add cure for how much meat. maple syrup or other natural sweeteners should work fine.

Anyways this is the recipe I got

12Cup water

2 cups kosher salt

1 1/3 cup Brown sugar

1 Cup maple syrup

4tsp vanilla

5Tbs saltpeter

Mix brine and add 8# pork belly. He said 2-3 days in the brine should be enough.


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## diggingdogfarm

TamaRockstar88 said:


> The bacon brine recipe I got from my chef he uses *saltpeter which is sodium nitrate or cure #2.* I'm just learning about curing bacon and I've heard people using both types of cures. Im wondering if the type of cure is based on how long you brine it? Like if you brine for only a few days cure1, or 15 days cure2. I use cure1 whenever I do jerky I have seen a lot of recipes where salt is the preservative, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Botulism is pretty nasty. There are a lot of cures that just use salt, and cure1 is 93.75% salt. It can be done but again, it's safety especially if you're feeding other people you wouldn't want to make them sick. I would use a basic brine recipe instead of dry curing, and add cure for how much meat. maple syrup or other natural sweeteners should work fine.
> 
> Anyways this is the recipe I got
> 
> 12Cup water
> 2 cups kosher salt
> 1 1/3 cup Brown sugar
> 1 Cup maple syrup
> 4tsp vanilla
> 5Tbs saltpeter
> Mix brine and add 8# pork belly. He said 2-3 days in the brine should be enough.



Sorry, but your chef doesn't know what he's doing.
Cure #2 is NOT saltpeter.
You should be using Cure #1 to cure bacon, in the proper amount.
Cure #2 and saltpeter are for long term curing, but *never* bacon.


~Martin


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## chef jimmyj

Salt Peter is not the same as Cure #2, although Cure #2 does contain a very small amount of Salt Peter. While Salt Peter has some uses in curing, in it's pure form it is used in such small amounts, for home production, it is difficult to measure and not recommended. 

Salt Peter aka Sodium Nitrate is not recommended in a Brine because there is no way to guarantee the amount or rate of breakdown into the active ingredient in the curing process, Sodium Nitrite, with an " i "...From the UDSA Inspectors Handbook... Furthermore it is banned from use in the USA for Commercial Bacon production based on its conversion to a Nitrosamine a known Carcinogen. Since it's Breakdown can't be controlled there is no way to tell if any Bacon you made will be safe. I would stick to using Cure #1 or Morton's Tender Quick for your Bacon Brine and leave the difficult to use Salt Peter to large production of items other than Bacon...JJ

NITRATE USED IN CURED COMMINUTED, PICKLED, AND DRY PRODUCTS

Introduction

Nitrate is used as a source of nitrite.  If nitrate is used as the curing agent, the conversion

(reduction) of nitrate to nitrite by bacteria in the meat or poultry is a necessary step in the

development of the cured color.  The amount of nitrate that is reduced to nitrite is dependent

upon the numbers of nitrate-reducing bacteria and several environmental conditions such as

temperature, moisture content, salt content, and pH.  Hence, the conversion rate and subsequent

amount of nitrite that is formed is difficult to control.  Similarly, the further reduction of nitrite to

nitric oxide, which reacts with myoglobin (muscle pigment) to produce the cured color, is also

affected by the same environmental conditions.  If nitrite is used as the curing agent, there is no

need for the nitrate reduction step, and the development of the cured color is much more rapid.  

The poor control associated with the reduction of nitrate to nitrite, coupled with the fact that

most processors today demand faster curing methods, has lead to the diminished use of nitrate in

meat and poultry products.     

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf   

The USDA recommended MAX amount of Nitrate in a Brine in ppm is 700...See page 12 of the handbook...

5 Tbs of Pure Salt Peter would be 88.8g. The recommended amount of Salt Peter in a Gal of Curing Brine is 111.125g for the max 700ppm strength. Although the amount you are using is would be considered Safe...For reasons stated above I find no good reason to use it for Bacon or anything else for that matter.


Density = weight ÷ volumemicrogram (μg)milligram (mg)gram (g)


US tablespoon17 758 904.5217 758.917.76
http://www.aqua-calc.com/page/density-table/substance/saltpeter


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## tamarockstar88

Yea, I've never used saltpeter in anything. I'm not sure where he got that recipe from but he's used it before. He went to CIA and has been a chef for years, he has cured his own meats and sausages, and has made prosciutto and lamb prosciutto. He does some smoking but it's not his area of expertise.  I wasn't sure if cure1 or 2 would be used depending on length of time you're brining? I saw some people on the forum cure it for up to 15 days. If I were to use that recipe I would replace it with the proper amount of cure1. How long would you brine a 8# pork belly, and I planned on injecting as well due to the size


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## connico

More info on your method... please!


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## mr t 59874

tstruck said:


> My biggest questions:
> 
> Do I need to use sodium nitrates in the curing process?  I am thinking I don't sincee I will be smoking to 150 degrees.
> 
> Any other pointers would be great
> Thanks for your feedback.


The others have covered my concerns other than  Botulism spores die at a temp of 240° not 150°.


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## chef jimmyj

Rockstar, this is the most commonly used Curing Brine around here, it is where you are seeing the 10-14 Day Brine times for Belly Bacon...http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine The recipe you propose has more than twice the Salt concentration, plus you plan to inject, so it will work faster, as in the 3-4 days you were told. However it most definitely will require a several hour soak in fresh water to remove some of the salt at the end. I have used a 1/2C Kosher Salt per gallon and for my taste did not have to soak. Good Luck...JJ


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## bovine0001

DiggingDogFarm said:


> re: the above video
> 
> Yikes!!!!! :icon_eek:
> Bad video!
> He doesn't know what he's doing!!!!
> He uses WAY too much cure in that video!!!!!!
> More than 2.5 times what is necessary!!!!!
> 
> re: nitrates/nitrites in bacon
> Bacon without nitrite/nitrate isn't all that uncommon.
> A lot of the old smoke houses in the south don't use it in their true dry-cured cold-smoked country bacon (don't try that at home unless you know what you're doing!)
> 
> 
> 
> ~Martin



Martin,
    The over curing, probably using a volume of cure for any amount of meat versus using a weight of cure in ratio to weight of meat, is my current theory of why people have problems with cured meat. Whether the eater is uber natural or simply gets nitrite headaches, over nitrited meat is not the way to go.  As pointed out, nitrites are natural, but excessive amounts of anything natural is dangerous : excess salt causes hypertension, too much seaweed (iodine) causes hyperthyroidism, heck too much bacon grease gives you loose stools. I really wonder how much over processing our food has lead to stigmas in American food culture that will take years to reverse. This type of education is going on in the microbrew beer market, namely not all beer tastes the same and is as widely varied as any other cuisine. Crap, feel a tangent coming, better stop.


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## tamarockstar88

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Rockstar, this is the most commonly used Curing Brine around here, it is where you are seeing the 10-14 Day Brine times for Belly Bacon...http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine The recipe you propose has more than twice the Salt concentration, plus you plan to inject, so it will work faster, as in the 3-4 days you were told. However it most definitely will require a several hour soak in fresh water to remove some of the salt at the end. I have used a 1/2C Kosher Salt per gallon and for my taste did not have to soak. Good Luck...JJ


Thank you for your help, I've seen several different curing methods. I'm not sure if the saltpeter is an older method or what. However I've had a hard time tracking down pork belly, stores here don't carry it, I had my chef try his sources and there's only one that sells it but only by the case, I love bacon but that's a lot of bacon. If we cant find a single belly he said he can probably have me smoke a case for us to use. So I hope it works out, a little nervous considering I haven't tried this before.


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## tamarockstar88

bovine0001 said:


> Martin,
> The over curing, probably using a volume of cure for any amount of meat versus using a weight of cure in ratio to weight of meat, is my current theory of why people have problems with cured meat. Whether the eater is uber natural or simply gets nitrite headaches, over nitrited meat is not the way to go. As pointed out, nitrites are natural, but excessive amounts of anything natural is dangerous : excess salt causes hypertension, too much seaweed (iodine) causes hyperthyroidism, heck too much bacon grease gives you loose stools. I really wonder how much over processing our food has lead to stigmas in American food culture that will take years to reverse. This type of education is going on in the microbrew beer market, namely not all beer tastes the same and is as widely varied as any other cuisine. Crap, feel a tangent coming, better stop.


That's an awesome point. The amount of health problems and food allergens has greatly increased in the last 30 years, probably a direct result form our diets and the way we process foods. Gluten/wheat allergies have skyrocketed and my theory is that it's directly related to when they started altering wheat in the 60's.
"Just a decade ago, gluten-intolerance levels were at 1 in 2500 worldwide. Today, it’s at 1 in 133." As for processed foods, people have been preserving foods forever, many that are commercially available today contain more chemicals and preservatives than what's been traditionally used, that's what I think is more unhealthy. Either way all the suggestions I've read recommend limiting processed and cured foods due to nitrates and salt content. Moderation is key. We're going to die some day regardless, I'm not going to stop eating bacon now.


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## bovine0001

TamaRockstar88 said:


> That's an awesome point. The amount of health problems and food allergens has greatly increased in the last 30 years, probably a direct result form our diets and the way we process foods. Gluten/wheat allergies have skyrocketed and my theory is that it's directly related to when they started altering wheat in the 60's.
> "Just a decade ago, gluten-intolerance levels were at 1 in 2500 worldwide. Today, it’s at 1 in 133." As for processed foods, people have been preserving foods forever, many that are commercially available today contain more chemicals and preservatives than what's been traditionally used, that's what I think is more unhealthy. Either way all the suggestions I've read recommend limiting processed and cured foods due to nitrates and salt content. Moderation is key. We're going to die some day regardless, I'm not going to stop eating bacon now.


Exactly!!


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## BGKYSmoker

I use Saltpetre at times.

**IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO EXACTLY USE IT-------> DONT**













sp.jpg



__ BGKYSmoker
__ Feb 8, 2013


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## banman

Using any cure, be it a sodium of whatever sort, is all dangerous for the hypersensitive ones.  This is first hand proof, since I have that condition.  any cure will cause me a guaranteed 48 hour head ache.


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## daveomak

banman said:


> Using any cure, be it a sodium of whatever sort, is all dangerous for the hypersensitive ones.  This is first hand proof, since I have that condition.  any cure will cause me a guaranteed 48 hour head ache.


banman.....  You must have headaches daily if you eat vegetables....   What do you eat ??  Vegetables contain more nitrates than bacon...

Maybe it's all the preservatives some manufacturers put in food that you are allergic to ??


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## pops6927

Thank you all for such a level-headed, non-inflammatory discussion on this topic!

One thing, however, please learn and know the differences between *Nitrite* and* Nitrate*.

I have created an Instructional Article with several outside links to papers on the differences, from basic to advanced technicals.  We are not supposed to send people to outside links, but considering the vast technical nature of this subject, I feel it necessary not to chance giving misinformation.  I've listed a few.  I need everyone else who are experts on this to list their links also; then we have a single "go to" Instructional Article we can all point to for further precise information on this subject and keep the origination within SMF.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/nitrites-vs-nitrates


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## bovine0001

I would absolutely love a study to explain the hypersensitivities people have and to, I presume, end the debate.  Unfortunately, the data out there is happy to state what nitrates and nitrites are, though I think they frequently mix them up, and typically jump on board the "shut up about nitrates hurting you" train.  The links in the article mentioned by Pops, thanks Pops, really just state some issues about the chemical natures of nitrate/nitrite compounds and whether they will give you cancer and how veggies have lots of these compounds.  None really address the issue of headaches.

The nitrate/nitrite nay-sayers will never give up the argument if their concerns aren't addressed, rather than simply saying "your wrong if you eat veggies".  I mean no offense by that statement, but if you had a serious medical concern and you were given answers like that, you would likely get grumpy about your affliction being ignored.  A similar example was the issue of autism being caused by children's vaccinnes; we can just say "you is crazy" (which did not work), but we can do meta-analysis to show there was not a significant link between the two, which seems to have helped peoples fears. 

We need to find the real causes of the headaches, whether its preservatives as DaveOmak suggested, my suggestion about excessive nitrate/nitriting of meat by the major producers/distributers or another reason all together.  Perhaps then we can find a solution to this issues that makes us all happy.

Finally, as an aside for Banman, if you ever find your "nitrate free" meat is pink, then they are tricking you.  Nitrites make it pink and are using a trick such as sourcing their meat from parts of Canada where they don't have to list the nitrate or are using the fermented celery juice powder which has shloads of nitrites.


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## mike clagg

http://hollyleehealth.com/2013/04/02/processed-meats-declared-too-dangerous-for-human-consumption/

This is the reason people are trying to avoid Nitrates, MSG and the like. 

-mike


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## daveomak

Mike Clagg said:


> http://hollyleehealth.com/2013/04/02/processed-meats-declared-too-dangerous-for-human-consumption/
> 
> This is the reason people are trying to avoid Nitrates, MSG and the like.
> 
> -mike


Mike, morning..... appreciate the article...   

Here is some reading you may want to consider.......     Dave

http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/seasoningflavoring/a/nitrates.htm
[h3]Nitrites and Botulism[/h3]
So nitrates and nitrites are both harmless and ubiquitous. But is it really possible that eating nitrate-free meats could actually be _more_  dangerous than eating meats that do contain sodium nitrate? The answer is yes.

One special property of sodium nitrite is that it prevents the growth of Clostridium botulinum. One of the most toxic substances known, Clostridium botulinum produces botulism, a paralytic illness that can lead to respiratory failure.

The botulism bacteria is peculiar bug because unlike most microbes, it actually requires an oxygen-free environment to live. Once it hits the air, it dies. So it tends to appear in canned foods, vacuum-packed foods, garlic stored in oil and improperly cured meats. It just so happens that sodium nitrite is especially effective at preventing the growth of Clostridium botulinum.
[h3]Conclusions About Nitrates and Nitrites[/h3]
Given that sodium nitrate occurs naturally in foods like spinach, carrots and celery, as well as the fact that nitrite has never been shown to cause cancer, all the fuss about nitrates and nitrites might seem like typical media-driven hysteria. Moreover, the supposedly "natural" or "organic" versions of these products can contain many times more sodium nitrate than their conventional counterparts. But when you consider the increased likelihood of contracting botulism, it's actually the nitrate-free products that present the real health risk.


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## fpnmf

Mike Clagg said:


> http://hollyleehealth.com/2013/04/02/processed-meats-declared-too-dangerous-for-human-consumption/
> 
> This is the reason people are trying to avoid Nitrates, MSG and the like.
> 
> -mike


I'm not trying to avoid nitrates or msg..in fact I like em!!

http://ruhlman.com/2011/05/the-no-nitrites-added-hoax/

http://ruhlman.com/2011/02/meat-curing-safety-issues/

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/msg-myth-versus-science/


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## daveomak

Preventing Botulism...........

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs104
[h2]What sanitation methods are used to prevent infection?[/h2]
The main limiting growth factors for _C. botulinum _are extreme temperature, pH < 4.6, low water activity, food preservatives, and competing microorganisms. Strains of _C. botulinum _can be both mesophilic and psychotrophic, with growth between 3°C to 43°C (38°F to 110°F). Therefore, strains can grow not only at room temperatures, but at normal refrigeration and higher temperatures. Proper cooking and handling is important to eliminate _C. botulinum _in food, so refrigeration can be more effective.

While most bacteria cannot survive at a low pH, some proteins such as in soy and beef have protective agents that allow them to grow at pH < 4.5. Low water activity inhibits the growth of _C. botulinum, _which is why dehydrated foods and foods high in salt and/or sugar do not support its growth. Food preservatives such as nitrites, sorbic acid, phenolic antioxidants, polyphosphates, and ascorbates, as well as lactic acid bacteria, inhibit the growth of _C. botulinum._

Most outbreaks of foodborne botulism are the result of poor home canning. Proper time, temperature, and pressure are required to destroy the heat-resistant spores, and proper storage methods are necessary to ensure the safety of the consumer. A pressure cooker can be used for home canning purposes because it can reach temperatures higher than boiling (212°F), which is necessary to kill the spores (_2_).

While the botulinum spores can survive in boiling water, the botulinum toxin is heat-labile. Heating food to a typical cooking temperature of 80°C (176°F) for 10 minutes before consumption can greatly reduce the risk of illness.

The suggestions below are good examples of how to prevent foodborne _C. botulinum_:


If consuming home canned foods, heat low acid foods to at least 80°C (176°F) for 10 minutes and corn, spinach, and meats for 20 minutes.

Oils infused with garlic or herbs should be properly refrigerated.

Canned food products, both home and commercial, should be inspected before use. Cans with bulging or damaged lids, leakage, or off odors should not be used because growth of the bacteria can often produce a gas, causing the can to expand.

Home canned foods should be canned in pressure cookers to ensure the proper time, temperature, and pressure requirements to avoid the growth of the bacteria and spores.

Although commercial food products have a low rate of botulism, read the label and throw out any and all damaged or expired cans.

If canning meats, use nitrites or salt in the brine in addition to heat to reduce the growth of _C. botulinum_.

Vacuum packaged meats should be refrigerated or properly stored in the freezer for extended use.

Keep hot foods above 57°C (135°F) and cold foods below 5°C (41°F) to prevent the formation of spores.

Wash hands, utensils, and food contact surfaces with hot soapy water after they touch raw meat or seafood, before food preparation, and after using the bathroom.


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## diggingdogfarm

It is possible to make bacon without added nitrite, it's done by some of the smokehouses in the south.
In the info that Dave posted above, you'll notice that "low water activity" is one way to prevent botulinum growth.
_"Low water activity inhibits the growth of C. botulinum, which is why dehydrated foods and foods high in salt and/or sugar do not support its growth."_
Bacon is salted and then dried until the water activity level is low enough to prevent botulinum growth before the bacon is cold or warm smoked.
Unfortunately, an expensive meter is required to accurately measure water activity level.



~Martin


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## pops6927

I sympathize with those having headaches and migraines; I had them for many years, only later to find out they were all caused by stress and misfunction of the spine, once leaving my job due to strokes and getting my Atlas properly adjusted; bingo, instant relief (see http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/127754/the-spine).  Not that I recommend that train of discovery, mind you, lol!  My sister had migraines all her life; so severe she'd curl up in a ball in a black room, only getting up to throw up for a week or two; she retired at 55 from it; then found out 2 things - a chiropracrtor and heliobactor factor for her ulcers (discovery that they can cure ulcers).  She now lives a relaxing and full life.


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## chef jimmyj

Mike Clagg said:


> http://hollyleehealth.com/2013/04/02/processed-meats-declared-too-dangerous-for-human-consumption/
> 
> This is the reason people are trying to avoid Nitrates, MSG and the like.
> 
> -mike


Mike no reflection on you or your beliefs...But, not only is Holly's information inaccurate and taken out of context from selfserving reports, but for every " Study " that says A, B or C causes Cancer, there is another study that refutes the findings of the first. She uses the word Nitrates very broadly. Fact is with the exception of Classically Dry Cured or Artisan Dry Cured styles of sausage like Salami, Pepperoni and a few other types of Charcuterie, NOTHING on this list, including Domestic, Commercially Produced Pepperoni which is typically heated (USDA reg requires heating to 145*F or 128*F for 60 minutes) is made with Nitrate...I won't even get started on MSG as there has never been a Conclusive and/or Repeatable study that links the 100 year old use of MSG to anything...JJ

Beef jerky
Bacon
Sausage
Pepperoni
Hot dogs
Sandwich meat
Deli slices
Ham
Frozen pizzas with meat
Canned soups containing meat
Frozen meals with meat
Ravioli and meat pasta foods
…and many more meat products


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## fixer

tstruck said:


> I'll be sharing the bacon with a group of people that eat "Paleo" or "Primal" so I would like to keep all ingredients natural.  I also try to cook with all natural ingredients if possible.  Nitrates don't really scare me personally as I eat a ton of sausage with nitrates.  However, I would like to keep it natural for the group I will be cooking for.  Thanks!


If someone is truly on the paleo/primal kick, sugar and maple syrup would be out for them as well.


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## webowabo

We havent heard back from the original thread starter... hope he is ok!



Think ill stick with the nitrites myself.. :biggrin:


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## hammocksmoker

So last night I put 5 lbs of bacon in a dry cure of 1 cup kosher salt and 1 cup brown sugar. Am I going to die?

I am guessing I should walk to the store and rub some pink salt on it from what you guys are saying as I am now a bit nervous as a first timer. Is there something else I should do like this guy to rescue this meat?


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## daveomak

hammocksmoker said:


> So last night I put 5 lbs of bacon in a dry cure of 1 cup kosher salt and 1 cup brown sugar. Am I going to die?
> 
> I am guessing I should walk to the store and rub some pink salt on it from what you guys are saying as I am now a bit nervous as a first timer. Is there something else I should do like this guy to rescue this meat?


Read all the posts in this thread....  there is a lot of good info in there......

Dave


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## joycec1957

A very good reason to avoid sodium nitrites and nitrates is: if you have Gout or Gouty arthritis, they will trigger extremely painfull flare-ups. I'm in hospital at this moment because of eating commercially cured bacon. I'm about to have surgery to remove the fluid from my gout, from my left knee. It caused a massive infection. Surgery is the only recourse besides amputation.

So, for me and my brother, sodium nitrites and nitrates could actually cost us our limbs. Goodbye ALL commercially cured meats! Plus, nitrites and nitrates raise blood pressure and inhibit healing of wounds. So, good luck with your cures using that stuff. I intend to keep my limbs.


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## chef jimmyj

Hope all goes well with your operation. If Nitrate/Nitrite effects your Gout, there are many Vegetables, especially Celery, Beets, Cabbage, Carrots, Radishes and Spinach that contain high levels of Nitrite as well, more than Bacon. There are many foods out there that cause health issues for people. Peanuts are a HUGE problem for many. I had a student that felt terrible after " some " classes. We didn't discover her problem until we started the Baking segment and she was sick after every class. She discovered she was allergic to Gluten, Celiac Disease. Meats can be cured with just salt but the amount needed to keep the meat safe from the Clostridium Botulinum bug and others, is very high and has to be soaked out to make it edible. Good luck...JJ


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## daveomak

Since I did not know about nitrite/nitrate and gout, I googled it and I found  this about asparagus......  Didn't know that either...

http://www.advancedfootcarecenternj...u-didnt-know-about-foods-that-cause-gout.html

 ... (from the link) ......
There are some foods that a person with gout may consider as "safe" but are they really?  Asparagus is one of the largest uric acid producing "healthy" foods around.  Asparagus is made up of proteins and amino acids known as Asparagine.  Asparagine has the highest number of ammonia molecules within it and therefore produces the highest amount of uric acid.  Asparagus needs to be considered a very high gout trigger.  Those who consume a lot of this vegetable need to be aware that it may be causing their problem.


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## country smoker

I cured 30 pounds of bacon with strictly salt and no nitrite you don't need this chemical the salt will do the job just fine the only thing the nitrite does is turn the meat pink and extend shelf life, and doing at home you can freeze to preserve, and the bacon will keep for about 10 days in the fridge, your amount are good hope it comes out good for you.


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## daveomak

country smoker said:


> I cured 30 pounds of bacon with strictly salt and no nitrite you don't need this chemical the salt will do the job just fine the only thing the nitrite does is turn the meat pink and extend shelf life, and doing at home you can freeze to preserve, and the bacon will keep for about 10 days in the fridge, your amount are good hope it comes out good for you.


When smoking foods, the smokehouse has a reduced oxygen environment... the nitrite prevents botulism, the deadliest pathogen known to man...

I strongly suggest you start using cure#1 when making smoked meats....

*FOR ALL MEMBERS ON THE FORUM....     USE NITRITE WHEN MAKING BACON AND SMOKING MEATS....*


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