# U-Bolt mod for the AMNTS



## normanaj (Jan 14, 2018)

I've been doing this since I  bought my first MES 30.Makes using the tubes more convenient and much easier to handle.Fits great in the bottom left of a MES.

More than one person has asked me why pitched?Keeps the pellets from falling out and you get a slower more consistent burn rate,which would explain why I'm getting close to 3hrs out of a 6" tube (over six on the 12") and not as intense smoke as many others have reported with the tube(s).On the 12" tube the bolt in the back can be shortened or eliminated altogether to achieve the proper angle though I still like to have the back ever so slightly elevated for ease of use and more importantly to allow for air circulation in the back,pulling out the chiploader a few inches and putting in the dump position greatly helps with airflow.

Just started using the expanding 7"-12" tube in my MES30,much more suited to the 30 than the 12"-18" tube though I would think it would be awesome in the 40.

Opening the door and replacing the tube with a fresh one and closing the door takes less than 10 seconds,heat loss is minimal.With the mailbox mod this obviously is not an issue.

Even with this mod the tube inherently puts out more smoke than the tray so you need to take that into consideration when it comes to duration of smoke,using ground/crushed pellets really helps with this.Check out this thread that 

 chopsaw
started regarding using ground/crushed pellets in the tube:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/burning-dust-in-the-amnts.282571/
You will get even longer smoke times,close to 5hrs on a 6"tube. Less intense smoke,nice thin and blue.I was using a coffee-bean grinder to grind my pellets  but I found they lacked in durability so I switched to using a blender,besides being more durable I can grind much more at a time,just pulse to get the right consistency.

The AMNTS with this mod is a great option if the tray isn't working for you,especially when using ground pellets.The tubes work awesome on hot/humid and windless days too.

This mod works just fine with the newer oval tubes and expanding tubes.


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## normanaj (Jan 14, 2018)

Sorry about the delay in uploading pics,took a bit of work.


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## halleone (Jan 14, 2018)

What are the U-shaped thingies called?? It will make it easier for me to find them at Home Depot.  I've got three AMZNTS and this is a great mod.


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## daveomak (Jan 14, 2018)

Take the AMNTS with you so you can be sure you get the correct size...


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## normanaj (Jan 14, 2018)

halleone said:


> What are the U-shaped thingies called?? It will make it easier for me to find them at Home Depot.  I've got three AMZNTS and this is a great mod.



Basic U-bolt,these probably came from Ace if I remember correctly.Like Dave said bring one of your tubes with you...not all hardware is created equal.


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## halleone (Jan 14, 2018)

Gotcha!  Thanks to both of you.


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## SmokinAl (Jan 15, 2018)

Great idea!
Al


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## cmayna (Jan 15, 2018)

There are lots of muffler U bolts out there which will work.


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## willbeg4q (Aug 6, 2018)

After


normanaj said:


> Just ordered two of the 12" oval tubes.Will let y'all know how this mod works with the oval tubes.


After using the two tubes for a while, do you notice more smoke flavor with two tubes versus one?


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## pc farmer (Aug 6, 2018)

willbeg4q said:


> After
> 
> After using the two tubes for a while, do you notice more smoke flavor with two tubes versus one?



2 tubes, 2 times the smoke


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## willbeg4q (Aug 6, 2018)

c farmer said:


> 2 tubes, 2 times the smoke


I get that, but in practice, does that actually transfer into deeper flavor? The reason I’m asking is because of the light smoke flavor that pellets tend to provide.


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## normanaj (Sep 2, 2018)

One at a time.I like intense smoke flavor but two tubes going at once would be way to much imo,the tube inherently puts out a lot of smoke by design.


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## GATOR240 (Sep 18, 2018)

Nice idea!


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## mikeperez (Oct 24, 2018)

Will this help reduce the amount of smoke I get form the Tube? I feel like sometimes the tube gives off billowing smoke with dump tray at 1-2 inch. Sometimes I get the thin smoke, and sometimes more intense.


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## normanaj (Oct 24, 2018)

mikeperez said:


> Will this help reduce the amount of smoke I get form the Tube? I feel like sometimes the tube gives off billowing smoke with dump tray at 1-2 inch. Sometimes I get the thin smoke, and sometimes more intense.



The tube inherently just puts out more smoke than the tray.

Its been my observation that having the tube at a pitch allows for a slower burn,but even more so allows for a consistent burn even if you don't fill it all the way.This generally produces a little less smoke than true horizontal.

I generally get TBS with the 6" tube for about 3 hours with this mod.

Duration of smoke vs intense smoke over a shorter period of time has always been a debate for me,but in an electric smoker like the MES intense and short is not always a bad thing.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 24, 2018)

Great Mod & Thread, Norm!!
Nice Job.
Like.

Bear


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## normanaj (Oct 25, 2018)

Bearcarver said:


> Great Mod & Thread, Norm!!
> Nice Job.
> Like.
> 
> Bear



Coming from the local MES/A-MAZE-N expert...I'll take that!

99.9% of everything I've ever learned about the MES and A-MAZE-N products came from your posts.

Cheers my friend!


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## chopsaw (Oct 25, 2018)

normanaj said:


> The tube inherently just puts out more smoke than the tray.
> 
> Its been my observation that having the tube at a pitch allows for a slower burn,but even more so allows for a consistent burn even if you don't fill it all the way.This generally produces a little less smoke than true horizontal.
> 
> ...


I have to agree . I changed my method , to using 1 u bolt on the front of a 12 " tube . It's a more productive burn for sure . Alot of the tube " burn " depends on the weather , at least for me , but the u bolt is a great idea , and produces a cleaner burn .


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## muddydogs (Oct 26, 2018)

I saw this idea sometime last year on the net and added U bolts to my tubes as well, I just run the tubes flat as I think having the back end lower slows down the burn to much. Another thing I did was take a 1/2" x 4" ? thin metal tie strap used to secure 2x4's together and place it under the front U bolt to make a handle sticking out the front of the tube to make picking up the tube easier while in the mailbox.


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## normanaj (Oct 26, 2018)

chopsaw said:


> I have to agree . I changed my method , to using 1 u bolt on the front of a 12 " tube . It's a more productive burn for sure . Alot of the tube " burn " depends on the weather , at least for me , but the u bolt is a great idea , and produces a cleaner burn .



Elevating the front absolutely makes a difference for sure.


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## mikeperez (Oct 26, 2018)

How much smoke are you guys getting from the tube? My smoke is blue but seems intense no matter what I do with dump tray. 

I used some wire to prop up the front of the tube and it’s lasting longer, but seems like a still get a lot of blue smoke


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## muddydogs (Oct 27, 2018)

mikeperez said:


> How much smoke are you guys getting from the tube? My smoke is blue but seems intense no matter what I do with dump tray.
> 
> I used some wire to prop up the front of the tube and it’s lasting longer, but seems like a still get a lot of blue smoke



I'm getting the right amount. Are you getting to much air flow across the pellets? Lots of smoke and a fast burn would indicate your drafting well probably to well.


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## normanaj (Oct 27, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> I'm getting the right amount. Are you getting to much air flow across the pellets? Lots of smoke and a fast burn would indicate your drafting well probably to well.



This would be my conclusion also.

Mike,
Some folks here have simply done away with the chiploader and replaced it it with the "riverrat mod".I've never gotten around to doing this as I've not needed to but it definitely makes for easy control of the airflow.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/calling-this-the-riverrat-damper-mod.170605/#post-1247417


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## chopsaw (Oct 27, 2018)

I'm one that thinks the tube is to much inside the smoker . So I went to a mailbox . Had it workin pretty good , but yes the smoke can be heavy , The addition of the u bolt was a big improvement . 






Also , I left everything in tact because I still use the chip loader at times .


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## Bearcarver (Oct 28, 2018)

When I tried the Tube, no matter what I did it produced too much smoke for my MES Units, so I went back to my AMNPS and AMNS for perfect smoke.
Now that I see these U-bolts, I could probably do that with my lit end up higher, but my Amazing Trays work so perfectly, I'll just stick to them.
Like I said though, it looks like a Great idea, especially for those who have trouble keeping an AMNPS going.

Bear


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## Hawging It (Jan 19, 2019)

normanaj said:


> I've been doing this since I first bought my first MES 30 this past Nov.Makes using the tubes a little more convenient and easier to handle.Fits great in my MES(pic3) or anywhere there's more a less a level surface and limited room.
> 
> More than one person has asked me why pitched(pic2)?Keeps the pellets from falling out and you get a slower more consistent burn rate,which would explain why I'm getting close to 3hrs out of a 6" tube (over six on the 12") and not as intense smoke as many others have reported with the tube(s).The 12" tube almost guarantees opening the door only once on a long smoke and the bolt in the back can be shortened or eliminated altogether on the 12" tube to achieve the proper angle though I still like to have the back ever so slightly elevated for ease of use.Opening the door and replacing the tube with a fresh one and closing the door takes less than 10 seconds,heat loss is minimal.
> 
> ...


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## Hawging It (Jan 19, 2019)

Ordered a 12" tube. Should be in any day now. Heading to the hardware store to pick up the stuff to make one!


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## smokinbarrles (Jan 29, 2019)

Thanks normanaj tried it out using a coat hanger wire and it produced the perfect amount of thin smoke. Using a 12 incher half full of pellets got about 4 hours of perfect smoke.


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## mike243 (Feb 3, 2019)

Just remember all meats have a window of time that smoke will penetrate no matter what we do.The rest will just add black creosote ,I aint saying its not tasty but the presentation drops IMO


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## martin1950 (Mar 14, 2019)

Just one little question. You are using stainless steel muffler clamps right? Regular clamps are galvanized and the ain't too good for ya, ask any welder. But that's a great idea for the tube.


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## indaswamp (Mar 14, 2019)

mike243 said:


> Just remember all meats have a window of time that smoke will penetrate no matter what we do.The rest will just add black creosote ,I aint saying its not tasty but the presentation drops IMO


Smoke will continue to penetrate meat until the surface temp reaches about 140*F. At that point, it will only collect on the surface. Which is why you can cold smoke for days on end...the meat will continue to absorb smoke and the smoke will travel all the way through the meat contributing flavor and aiding preservation.

Fire temperature and air flow (and type of wood) has more to do with creosote deposits than any other factor....and some of those creosote compounds are good and not bitter, they add to flavor. You want the fire temp 650~750* for the best smoke. a hotter fire creates a lot of unburned particles and more creosote. Starve it for oxygen and you will get black smoke...the worst kind.


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## solman (Mar 14, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> ....and some of those creosote compounds are good and not bitter, they add to flavor.



i'm guessing you're not a fan of the mailbox mod then, since one of the "benefits" of it that a lot of people tout is that it significantly reduces creosote.


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## indaswamp (Mar 14, 2019)

solman said:


> i'm guessing you're not a fan of the mailbox mod then, since one of the "benefits" of it that a lot of people tout is that it significantly reduces creosote.



<Indaswamp opens can of worms>....


I'm sure someone here will take issue with this. But this is what I have learned helping old timers (and my friend) at the rural life museum in Baton Rouge.

Mailbox mod. works....for MES owners with very little draft through an electric smoker...as it was designed....from what I know about it. It helps the smoke generator get more air, and helps with the limited draft in a MES.

The mailbox mod is an adaptation of an old cold smoking method with an external firebox. As smoke cools, some of the compounds condense on cool surfaces. You will loose both good and bad through condensation. People bad mouth creosote, but some of the best flavoring compounds are forms of creosote, Not all creosote is equal. Air flow draft is key. The old school method is dual smoke stacks where most of the heat and smoke rise through the first stack, creating pull with the draft through the stack, and the slight angle of the second pipe at the 'T' allows a trickle of smoke to the smoke chamber. This allows control of the temp. of the fire in order to produce the optimum smoke with less of the 'bad' creosote and more of the 'good'. And it allows for optimum control of smoke to the smokehouse without damping down the fire temp....

Mailbox mod users just take the smoke produced and deal with it. They have little control over how hot the fire burns. Not all smoke is created equal.....that is not to say that white smoke, or creosote is 'bad'. Depends on duration of the smoke and what you are cooking. 2~3 hour chickens-no problem with white smoke. The meat won't be in long enough to matter IMO. But for long cold smokes, fire temp. matters to produce optimum flavor compounds. BTW, The optimum fire temp. for optimum smoke is 650~750*F. I would have to ask Todd what temp. his various smoke generators burn with pellets and dust.

<Rant over>


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## normanaj (Mar 14, 2019)

martin1950 said:


> Just one little question. You are using stainless steel muffler clamps right? Regular clamps are galvanized and the ain't too good for ya, ask any welder. But that's a great idea for the tube.



Basic u-bolt from the local Ace,stainless is all they sell(at least here).No need to spend extra at the autoparts store for a muffler clamp.

The only galvy I can find where I live comes in the form of a nail or duct work.


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## B-THRASH (Sep 16, 2019)

I've used the tubes for a couple of years now, have the tray but it never worked as well. When I built my new smoker I created insert ports for the tubes with positioning bumpers inside the smoker, and welded handles on the tubes with silicone caps so I can grab the tube while it's hot. So just light them, slide them in and pull them out. This also gives the tubes plenty of air supply. You can maybe add such an approach to your smoker, just cut a 2" hole in the right spot?


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## Bearcarver (Sep 16, 2019)

B-THRASH said:


> I've used the tubes for a couple of years now, have the tray but it never worked as well. When I built my new smoker I created insert ports for the tubes with positioning bumpers inside the smoker, and welded handles on the tubes with silicone caps so I can grab the tube while it's hot. So just light them, slide them in and pull them out. This also gives the tubes plenty of air supply. You can maybe add such an approach to your smoker, just cut a 2" hole in the right spot?
> 
> View attachment 406018
> View attachment 406019




Freaking Brilliant !!!
That's a Super Idea!!
Like.
Shame the Tube puts out too much Smoke for my MES.

Bear


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## normanaj (Sep 17, 2019)

B-THRASH said:


> I've used the tubes for a couple of years now, have the tray but it never worked as well. When I built my new smoker I created insert ports for the tubes with positioning bumpers inside the smoker, and welded handles on the tubes with silicone caps so I can grab the tube while it's hot. So just light them, slide them in and pull them out. This also gives the tubes plenty of air supply.



Great mod for sure!



B-THRASH said:


> You can maybe add such an approach to your smoker, just cut a 2" hole in the right spot?



I don't know about drilling in a hole in my MES though.They do have the chip loader hole but if you stuck a tube in there it would be right above the element.With that much airflow the tube would produce copious amounts of smoke and in the confined space of the MES it would be overkill.I had trouble with the tray staying lit so I started using the tube and it produced to much smoke so I came up with the u-bolt mod and it cut down on the smoke and then after reading the thread that 

 chopsaw
 started on using crushed/ground pellets in the tube I've never looked back.


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## Robert H (Oct 25, 2019)

Great idea with the clamps, will have to try it.Kudos for the cutouts in the smoker for easy loading also.I have the pellet tray and have a tube also, but its just a steel bird feeder tube I found in the shed that my wife forgot about.I burned the paint off of it and just use that.Works great and about one third the price.Its not stainless but its steel and has held up.


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## nanuk (Oct 26, 2019)

normanaj said:


> I don't know about drilling in a hole in my MES though.They do have the chip loader hole but if you stuck a tube in there it would be right above the element.



I have an MES and bought a 3" dryer ducting about 5ft long.   
I stuff that unit into the chip loader hole (after removing the guts) supported on a frame for a slight incline, then put my homemade tube in that.
I control the amount of smoke by the outlet damper.

my tube is 3 ft long and will it stuffed with planer shavings, I get about 6 hours of smoke.  
I light it with a hot air gun, and once I have some coals, in it goes and I just let it do its thing


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## hoity toit (Oct 26, 2019)

nice job


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## normanaj (Oct 26, 2019)

nanuk said:


> I have an MES and bought a 3" dryer ducting about 5ft long.
> I stuff that unit into the chip loader hole (after removing the guts) supported on a frame for a slight incline, then put my homemade tube in that.
> I control the amount of smoke by the outlet damper.



Might as well just add the mailbox you're already halfway there.



nanuk said:


> my tube is 3 ft long and will it stuffed with planer shavings, I get about 6 hours of smoke.
> I light it with a hot air gun, and once I have some coals, in it goes and I just let it do its thing



No issues with the shavings catching fire?I've been in the trades a long time and I've seen how various forms of wood burn.The idea of using wood shavings kinda scares me,the potential for fire is to high for my liking.

6 hours of smoke out of a 3 foot long tube isn't really that efficient,I get close to that out of a 6" modded tube filled with ground pellets and get nice TBS.


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## Hawging It (Oct 26, 2019)

Works great!


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## daveomak (Oct 26, 2019)

Thrash.....  WOW....  Nice invention....  I love it....


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## nanuk (Oct 27, 2019)

normanaj said:


> Might as well just add the mailbox you're already halfway there.
> 
> *Working on it. Gonna use a repurposed microwave oven.  Halfway to completion *
> 
> ...



I should weigh my tube when full to find out how many grams of wood I burn oer hour. 

Has anyone else checked on this?


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## nanuk (Oct 27, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> a hotter fire creates a lot of unburned particles and more creosote. .



I would have thought the opposite.  

But in my thinking it is not temps but O2 levels. 
More air = more O2 
More O2 = cleaner burn

It seems, through experience like DaveO had, you need to control air/O2 to the fuel AND air flow through the unit. 

You add more air to the fuel for a cleaner burn/less heavy smoke
And add more airflow ABOVE the fuel to help move the light smoke through the smoker. 

This is why I think mailbox mods work so well.  Easier to control both parameters.


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## rc4u (Oct 27, 2019)

just don't somebody go buy a galvanized ones.. exhaust clamp liked noted..


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## normanaj (Nov 14, 2020)

Very glad to see the stupidity that was at the end of my thread was removed,thank you mods.My only intention in starting this thread was to help others.

And to the the one who mucked it up,and you know who you are...keep it to yourself as you're the reason we don't have the edit option anymore.


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## Nefarious (Jan 1, 2022)

normanaj
 I have been waiting on parts to build my mailbox mod, so I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs.  My mailbox is a stainless junction box and on the inside there are 4 bolts, two of which I could build a rack for the smoke tubes.  I saw this mod and thought certainly seems to work well, and way less work so why not.  I started looking for the right size u bolts to use and where could I buy them other then homedepot and came across this site that sells every size of u bolt one could imagine.

The question is, if you could have any size bolts you wanted, what sizes would you use?  I know you wand an angle, maybe that's the best thing to target?  I plan on using both a 6" tube and a 12" tube and I suspect I need different size bolts to keep the angle correct.

What are your thoughts?


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## 1MoreFord (Jan 3, 2022)

I'd buy the u-bolts from McMaster-Carr.  They have about any size you want in any steel you want and they will accept returns if you wound up with the wrong size.  BTW buy the SS ones not the galvanized ones.









						McMaster-Carr
					

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




					www.mcmaster.com


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## Nefarious (Jan 4, 2022)

1MoreFord said:


> I'd buy the u-bolts from McMaster-Carr.  They have about any size you want in any steel you want and they will accept returns if you wound up with the wrong size.  BTW buy the SS ones not the galvanized ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have seen them with both ends at the same height and one higher then the other so tube sits at an angle..  Is one better then the other or is it just personal preference?

If the fire end was lowest it might burn faster, too fast?


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## 1MoreFord (Jan 4, 2022)

I understand tilted is better.  If the fire end is lower the pellets could fall out plus burn too fast.


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## Nefarious (Jan 4, 2022)

1MoreFord said:


> I understand tilted is better.  If the fire end is lower the pellets could fall out plus burn too fast.


What heights do use?


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## 1MoreFord (Jan 4, 2022)

Not sure.  Just eyeball it.


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## Winterrider (Jan 4, 2022)

Only need one on the open end actually. The raise won't matter much, just get it up in the air for circulation.


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## normanaj (Jan 6, 2022)

Nefarious said:


> The question is, if you could have any size bolts you wanted, what sizes would you use? I know you wand an angle, maybe that's the best thing to target? I plan on using both a 6" tube and a 12" tube and I suspect I need different size bolts to keep the angle correct.
> 
> What are your thoughts?



On the 6" tube I have a 4" bolt on the front and a 3" on the back but basically as long as the back is slightly elevated you could go with any smaller size for the back which is what I do with the 12" and expanding tubes.The only real reason to have the back elevated is to be able to have air circulation at the back so you get a complete burn.Obviously too much of an angle and your pellets won't burn well and no angle they'll burn too fast and produce heavy smoke.Even though the Amazen site says the tubes can't burn dust...they can and I use it almost exclusively these days,the burn rate is very slow and the smoke is nice and thin.


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