# First lox on the MES30



## maxgunner (May 11, 2014)

I've enjoyed lox forever (at least my knees think I'm that old), been making it for years, but just smoked one on a real, live smoker for the first time this morning.













20140511_091659[1].jpg



__ maxgunner
__ May 11, 2014






(The other piece of fish is blackfin tuna, caught off the OBX last week)

I cured for longer than usual, mostly simply because I couldn't find the time to smoke during the week.  I ran it in my MES30 with no heat, AMPTS filled with apple wood pellets, as you can see in the lower left.

I pulled it after about 3 hours or so.  Smells great.  Tastes great.  But the fish is soooooo crumbly that I can't slice it.  Nearly all of the firmness of the fish is gone and it literally falls apart as I try to slice it.  

I read where someone recommended refrigerating for 24 hours before slicing, so after a few crumbly, delicious "slices", I put the salmon in gallon bags and into the fridge.

Any thoughts, comments, tips?  Maybe everything is fine and I will be able to slice it tomorrow after it chills a bit.  But there's no way I could get a real "slice" today except perhaps on the very end where it was the firmest.

Thanks for your help, brothers and sisters of smoke.

MG


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## leah elisheva (May 12, 2014)

Fantastic to see! And that tuna must have been wonderful too! Nice job! Happy new week! Cheers! - Leah


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## maxgunner (May 12, 2014)

Help!  The lox is the same.  So "loose" it is falling apart even before I try to slice it.

What did I do wrong?!?  Smoke too long? Cure too long?  I have never had this happen with lox before, but as I mentioned, this is the first time I've put it on a smoker.

All advice appreciated.  Honestly, killer lox is one of the top reasons I bought a smoker.

thanks,

MG


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## dirtsailor2003 (May 12, 2014)

Sounds like you hot smoked it and actually cooked the salmon. I cold smoke my lox and never have that problem.


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## maxgunner (May 12, 2014)

I kept the MES turned off and only the AMNTS as a smoke source.  What do you do?


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## daveomak (May 12, 2014)

What recipe did you use.....    Dave


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## dirtsailor2003 (May 12, 2014)

Do you know what the temp was in the MES while you were smoking? I know that when I use my AMNTS I can get temps close to 100* if I'm not using my mailbox mod. Course when it's 70* outside it's over a 100* in my GOSM with no heat at all. When smoking loc I like my smoker to be in the 40's temp wise.


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## cmayna (May 13, 2014)

Yup, If you cold smoked the salmon, you shouldn't have had any real issue.    Did you modify your brine recipe?  I normally cold smoke my lox for two hours after brining and drying, smoking during the morning.


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## atomicsmoke (May 13, 2014)

Do you have a pic of the finished salmon?


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## mdboatbum (May 13, 2014)

You can see from the picture that there was some heat being generated. The white protein/fat rising out where the spine was is a sure sign.  My guess is you were running somewhere in the 110˚-120˚ range. Those pellets generate a surprising amount of heat. Take us through your process step by step and provide some pics of the finished product so we can give a better guess. If it's flaking, or separating st the natural grain of the flesh, it's just cooked. If the meat itself has broken down somehow and it's mushy, I'm not sure what would cause that.


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## daveomak (May 13, 2014)

Lox should not be brined/cured in a liquid....   It should be salted/sugared/cure in the dry form and pressed moderately, under weight, to remove the internal moisture.....   that provides a fairly solid form of meat with concentrated flavor...   easy to slice... intense flavor....


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## mdboatbum (May 13, 2014)

I think you'll get what you're after on your next try.  Smoked lox is out of this world good and even I, on my second attempt following Bbally's method was able to produce the best smoked salmon I've ever had. I say "Even I" because it's a well documented fact that I possess just enough knowledge to screw up even the most detailed recipe for hot water. 

(Please forgive the gratuitous bragging shots, but it was REALLY good, and not at all complicated)


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## atomicsmoke (May 13, 2014)

This is lox (brined, pressed as Dave said and hung to dry for a day). Wasn't smoked. Still moist with oils visible, slices easily.












IMG_20140324_210609.jpg



__ atomicsmoke
__ May 13, 2014






And this is brined (for a lot shorter time) and hot smoked. You can easily tell the difference: white stuff and flakes.












IMG_20140416_192555.jpg



__ atomicsmoke
__ May 13, 2014






As mentioned above by Mdboatbum...yours seems to be in the 2nd category...not fully cooked in the picture though.


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## cmayna (May 13, 2014)

One of my smoked lox's


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## maxgunner (May 13, 2014)

I use 50/50 white sugar and sea salt.  With a little dill weed mixed in.


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## maxgunner (May 13, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> Lox should not be brined/cured in a liquid.... It should be salted/sugared/cure in the dry form and pressed moderately, under weight, to remove the internal moisture..... that provides a fairly solid form of meat with concentrated flavor... easy to slice... intense flavor....


Yes, this is what I do.  Salt/sugar cure under weight.  No brine.  It came out of the fridge a perfect consistency.  My only thought is the AMPTS generated more heat than I thought it would.  I didn't measure temp inside the MES since I figured it would be about ambient, which was around mid-70s that morning.  I had the air vent wide open and pellet chute removed.  Had no issue at all generating great smoke.  Must've been too much heat as well.  I'd hate to not be able to cold smoke in summer, but maybe that's a price I pay for living in the south.  Or, I can take a saw to my MES and do a mod.  Not sure which is the less-appetizing thought...

MG


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## atomicsmoke (May 13, 2014)

You could fill up a milk jug with water, freeze it and put it in the smoker between your ampts and the fish.


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## maxgunner (May 13, 2014)

Gorgeous pics, Mdboatbum, and cmayna.  

The only things I did different this time were 1) cure for longer than typical, and 2) use a smoker.  Don't have pics of the finished product at the moment, but the only other strangeness was a much oilier fish than typical.  It's like the smoke (heat I imagine) drew the oils out. The firmness was great after curing, so I really don't think variable #1 had any negative effect.  I assumed the AMPTS would add next to no heat, and I think this was simply a bad assumption.  

Until at least September, there will be virtually no morning temps in the low or even mid-60's.  Someone mentioned cold smoking at temps in the 40s; that's winter here.  

So, what to do?  Use less pellets?  Open the door every 15 minutes or so?  Smoke for less time?  Put a tray of ice directly beneath the salmon racks?  What should the max chamber temp be for cold smoking?

Thanks again.  Great forum.  So glad I found y'all.

MG


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## maxgunner (May 13, 2014)

atomicsmoke said:


> You could fill up a milk jug with water, freeze it and put it in the smoker between your ampts and the fish.


Sounds like that might work.  Thanks!


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## daveomak (May 13, 2014)

LOX over cooked and perfect O.jpg



__ daveomak
__ May 13, 2014








That had way too much heat.....    Lox needs to be below 70 degs IMO....     You know when it is right by the "almost translucent color of the meat"......  That looks perfect.....  not cooked....  compressed....     KEY-RAP that pic makes me hungry.........














LOX over cooked and perfect.jpg



__ daveomak
__ May 13, 2014


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## maxgunner (May 13, 2014)

atomicsmoke said:


> You could fill up a milk jug with water, freeze it and put it in the smoker between your ampts and the fish.


Sounds like that might work.  Thanks!


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## atomicsmoke (May 13, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> LOX over cooked and perfect O.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That wasn't meant to be lox...but hot smoked salmon.


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## atomicsmoke (May 13, 2014)

Isn't lox just brined/pressed salmon? Not smoked. Smoked salmon is nova lox isn't it?


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## welshrarebit (May 13, 2014)

I put a pan of ice when I cold smoke.


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## daveomak (May 14, 2014)

atomicsmoke said:


> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> > LOX over cooked and perfect O.jpg
> ...




The title of the thread is "First lox"  .. then the picture.....



atomicsmoke said:


> Isn't lox just brined/pressed salmon? Not smoked. Smoked salmon is nova lox isn't it?




As far as I know, lox has many definitions...  depends which country...  and how you interpret the wording and translate to which ever language.....  

Nova Lox (Lax), Grav Lox (Lax) .....  smoked or unsmoked....  with or without dill.... salt and sugar... with or without white pepper....   with or without a thin film of EVOO to make it glisten...  I like to add garlic and onion powder....    I suppose that isn't in an original recipe either.....  Anyway I make it, it's all Lox (Lax) to me.....  the stuff is awesome....   And I consider Lox to be ONLY made from wild caught Sockeye .....  I guess that's my definition....   Until you have had Sockeye Lox, you are really missing something....

The comment attached to the original picture was for clarification only.....  not to be mean or rude....  in the event a newcomer wanted to see Lox, and the final results, I thought it would be a good idea to have a reasonable facsimile for them to see ....

I don't lean toward calling folks out on this forum...  only to help folks and the learning process associated with it....   Recipes that turn out "bad" are a valuable learning tools for everyone...   I post my mistakes or lousy recipes to help folks not make the same errors I make.....  

Dave


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## dls1 (May 14, 2014)

atomicsmoke said:


> Isn't lox just brined/pressed salmon? Not smoked. Smoked salmon is nova lox isn't it?


You're correct.

True authentic *"Lox"* is nothing more than salt cured salmon, and never smoked. The term is a derivation of the Danish, Norwegian, Yiddish, German, and Swedish terms laks, lachs, and lax which all mean the same thing, *"Salmon"*. Salt was/is used only as a preservative. The preferred cut, the bellies, are heavily salted, stacked (pressed), and stored for an extended period of time, often weeks. That's followed by a series of long soakings to freshen, then a drying process.

With the large wave of migration of Central and Eastern Europeans, predominately Jewish, to the Eastern seaboard of the US in the late 1800s, there also came a demand for salmon, which was found to be cheap and abundant in those days. For the most part, the salmon was sourced from the Pacific Northwest and, since refrigerated rail cars were in their infancy, shipped to the East Coast packed in salt. At a later point, a more abundant, cheaper, and closer source of salmon, was found in the coastal waters off of Nova Scotia. The fisherman returning from those waters with their catch also brought back the local native process using a milder cure and cold smoking the salmon. Hence, the term *"Nova Lox"* is something of an oxymoron.


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## jakester (Aug 1, 2016)

Mdboatbum said:


> I think you'll get what you're after on your next try.  Smoked lox is out of this world good and even I, on my second attempt following Bbally's method was able to produce the best smoked salmon I've ever had. I say "Even I" because it's a well documented fact that I possess just enough knowledge to screw up even the most detailed recipe for hot water.
> 
> (Please forgive the gratuitous bragging shots, but it was REALLY good, and not at all complicated)


How do I get smoked Salmon like this? I am going to cold smoke salmon this weekend for the first time so any advise is appreciated!


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## jakester (Aug 1, 2016)

cmayna said:


> One of my smoked lox's


or  like this? These two look perfect.


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