# Help with bone in chicken breasts



## nygiant (May 26, 2017)

So I haven't had real good luck with chicken grilling or smoking not sure what I'm doing wrong or maybe I'm expecting too much. I've had chicken from barbecue restaurants and was really tender and just awesome all around. Can't seem to duplicate that experience so I'm going to try again,

 I was doing some reading online and have decided to brine the chicken breasts for 24 hours in buttermilk. What are your thoughts on that? I have read that anyone who's done it raves about how juicy and tender the meat is.  

 I was going to add various spices into the buttermilk or just sprinkle the breasts with those spices before putting on the smoker. 

 I guess… Here's where I am asking for the help in addition to your thoughts on the buttermilk brine.  I understand that if you smoke chicken  you are not getting crispy skin,  however, how long and what temperature would you recommend to make sure the chicken is just really really tender? 

 I was also thinking if and when it is done smoking to put it on the Weber kettle grill for maybe three or four minutes each side over direct coals to crisp the skin up. Do you think that would be a good idea? 

 I bought this instant read and it should be delivered tomorrow to ensure it's being cooked to the appropriate temperature. From reading on the site this seems like a really good one hopefully.  ( Lavatools Javelin PRO Duo Ambidextrous Backlit Instant Read Digital Meat Thermometer. )

 Just trying to make some chicken breasts not thighs  because everyone seems to like the white meat. I know it can dry out quick and fast so that is the reason I want to brine first.  I have read that you can use water salt and sugar or that with some additional spices and herbs in it. But I just thought buttermilk sounded good.  Really not clear on how that brines the chicken but I've read that it works.

 By the way… The recipe calls for 4 1 pound bone in chicken breasts. I also forgot to mention it says add 1 tablespoon of kosher salt to the buttermilk so I'm assuming that's how the brine works?


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## nygiant (May 26, 2017)

Also I guess I'll post the recipe just so you guys can see what I'm talking about.  Here it is below. 

Ingredients

2 cups low-fat buttermilk 
1 Tbs. kosher salt
Four 1-pound bone-in chicken breasts 
1 Tbs. ground cinnamon
1 Tbs. ground cumin
1 Tbs. ground coriander
1 Tbs. sugar
1 Tbs. granulated garlic
1 Tbs. onion powder
1 Tbs. freshly ground  black pepper
1 tsp. ancho chile powder
1 tsp. chipotle chile powder
1 tsp. ground ginger
1 tsp. ground sage
Your favorite sauce for chicken, barbecue or otherwise (optional)
Preparation

Pour the buttermilk into a large zip-top bag. Add the salt and the chicken breasts. Close the bag and squish the liquid around the chicken breasts. Put in the refrigerator and let sit overnight, turning the bag several times.


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## tallbm (May 26, 2017)

Hi there!

Well I'll try and answer some of your questions first and then go from there.

*Time and temp: * That thermometer will be your friend.  Go to an Internal Temp (IT) of 165F for chicken breast.  You can go longer but the longer you go the greater your chances of drying it out. 

I do chicken with a smoker temp of 325F and have always had success at that temp with edible skin.  It may or may not be crispy but it won't be leather or rubbery skin.  Ignore cooking by time, but this may take your chicken about 2 hours to cook.  Apply a good strong smoke the whole time.  Your chicken should be tender and juicy with this approach.

*How Brine Works:*   My simple understanding is that you have salt (and other stuff) dissolved into a liquid.  As the meat soaks up the liquid it also gets the salt.  Salt is well known for retaining moisture therefore you keep juice and such in your chicken longer helping it not dry out.

*Grilling for crispy skin:  *Many do this and report success so I say it can't hurt.  I don't have a time or temp to grill at to help you here, but if you smoke at a temp of 325F or in that ballpark I'm pretty sure you increase chances of grilling and getting crispy skin.

*Buttermilk for brine:*   I'm mixed on this.  Only because I don't know how milk would hold up on a low and slow chicken smoke.  At 325F I don't think I'd worry about it as much but at 225F I personally would have concerns.. Warm milk for a few hours to get up to 165F has me on alert. 

With that recipe I think you put it all in your brine or in this case it seems more like a marinade (they are roughly the same).  Two cups of liquid with 4 pounds of breast won't completely cover the chicken like a "brine" does and is more like a coating so I would again mix all the spices in the liquid.

In my simple salt + water brine (1qt water + 1/4 cup table salt)  I use quite a bit more salt than 2 tablespoons but you can always add salt after it is smoked if that works for you like it does for many folks out there.  With 2 cups of liquid 2 tablespoons of salt seems about right I guess. 

If you wanted to attempt with water instead of buttermilk I think you would still have success but I'm not advocating either way.  I'm curious as to how this recipe turns out.

I've done a lot more chicken than I imagined I would while learning how to smoke simply because it is cheap.  I am producing great smoked chicken at the moment and seem to be improving it more than I could imagine with every little tweak I have been adding to my smokes.

Let us know how it turns out :)


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## noboundaries (May 26, 2017)

nygiant said:


> So I haven't had real good luck with chicken grilling or smoking not sure what I'm doing wrong or maybe I'm expecting too much. I've had chicken from barbecue restaurants and was really tender and just awesome all around. Can't seem to duplicate that experience so I'm going to try again.  *I guarandangtee you they are brining their chicken breasts.*
> 
> I was doing some reading online and have decided to brine the chicken breasts for 24 hours in buttermilk. What are your thoughts on that? I have read that anyone who's done it raves about how juicy and tender the meat is.  *I use orange juice, which is acidic.  Buttermilk is also acidic, so basically the same end result.  The salt and acid in the brine together break down the protein chains in the meat.  The term is "denatured" protein.  It tenderizes the meat.  24 hours would be the maximum recommended for an acidic brine because the acid can make the meat mushy if brined too long.    *
> 
> ...


Whenever I grill, smoke, or bake chicken breasts, either boneless or split, I brine them.  It makes a WORLD of difference.  Dark meat I'll throw on the smoker or grill without brining, but not white meat.


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## nygiant (May 26, 2017)

WOW!! you guys that posted are totally awesome! What great, thought out, detailed explanations to my questions. 

 And I would second your recommendation on removing some of those spices from the rub. I think that's a great recommendation and just using the basic onion garlic pepper etc.


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## nygiant (May 26, 2017)

Just to add even though this isn't thread related… Went to Costco yesterday and got a bunch of meat for this weekend. 

 Three racks of baby back ribs, a four pack of about 2 inch thick ribeye steaks,  and sirloin burgers  in addition to these chicken breasts. 

Meatmorial Day Weekend


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## SmokinAl (May 26, 2017)

I think the biggest problem with chicken breasts drying out is everybody over cooks them.

Take them out of the smoker at 155-157, and rest them for 20 minutes.

The carryover cooking will bring them up to 165.

Then they will be tender & juicy, brine or not.

Al


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## shyzabrau (May 26, 2017)

SmokinAl said:


> I think the biggest problem with chicken breasts drying out is everybody over cooks them.
> Take them out of the smoker at 155-157, and rest them for 20 minutes.
> The carryover cooking will bring them up to 165.
> Then they will be tender & juicy, brine or not.
> ...



Especially if you are going to finish them on the grill!


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## nygiant (May 26, 2017)

SmokinAl said:


> I think the biggest problem with chicken breasts drying out is everybody over cooks them.
> Take them out of the smoker at 155-157, and rest them for 20 minutes.
> The carryover cooking will bring them up to 165.
> Then they will be tender & juicy, brine or not.
> ...



Thanks for posting Al




Shyzabrau said:


> Especially if you are going to finish them on the grill!



True....I think I'm gonna remove them a little early like Al said then put them over lump on the grill for a few minutes.


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## nygiant (Jun 1, 2017)

Well ran out of time over the weekend so the chicken was taken out of the brine after about 20 hours. Rubbed it down and stuck it in the fridge  uncovered  for like a day.  Then ended up covering it because another two days went by without any time to cook it.

 Finally decided I had to cook it last night even though I didn't have time so I set up the WSM real quick  and put the breasts on. Couldn't really get the smoker above 315° so that's where It smoked.  

 Probed the breasts after about an hour and five minutes and they were reading between 161 and 164 each.   When I stuck the instant read thermometer in one of the breast it was like a geyser of juice just started coming out.   Brushed some barbecue sauce on it and let them go another 12 minutes.   

 Had already fixed something else for dinner because I didn't know that these were going to cook in such a short time. So I ate my dinner and was just staring at the chicken breast and was really wanting to know how they turned out so I figured I'd cut a piece off.    Ended up eating half the breast it was so good. They turned out so juicy it was like a medium rare ribeye steak. I was just in total amazement about how that brine worked.  

 I will say I am not a fan of that rub that I posted above. I ended up using all the ingredients but the cumin. And I did not care for that cinnamon flavor.   That's not a big deal though the brine and the smoke time is what I was really after.  

 Still have 3 1/2 of those big breasts left over. I think I might  shred some and make a barbecue chicken pizza  and something else.  

 The one thing I wanted to do but just didn't have the time was to take these things off and put them over the coals in the kettle grill for maybe three or four minutes each.   Wasn't a real fan of the texture of the skin even smoking over 300° just wasn't  crisp.    So I think I will definitely do this again due to the way the chicken turned out overall and make sure I have enough time to put it over the direct coals to crisp it up some. 

Sorry I didn't take any pictures of the inside but this is what it looked like on the outside when I took it off. 













IMG_0065.JPG



__ nygiant
__ Jun 1, 2017


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## tallbm (Jun 1, 2017)

nygiant said:


> Well ran out of time over the weekend so the chicken was taken out of the brine after about 20 hours. Rubbed it down and stuck it in the fridge uncovered for like a day. Then ended up covering it because another two days went by without any time to cook it.
> 
> Finally decided I had to cook it last night even though I didn't have time so I set up the WSM real quick and put the breasts on. Couldn't really get the smoker above 315° so that's where It smoked.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the success! 

I wasn't much of a smoked chicken man myself until doing so many mods and using chicken as my cheap test meat hahahaha.  Now I am amazed at how well I am producing smoked chicken, it blew my mind how good it was.

I agree on simplifying the rub.  I'm a fan of the big 4 spices Salt, Pepper, Onion, Garlic (SPOG) and I like to then sometimes use a pinch of cayenne.  It gives great flavor without the heat!

If you do salt in the brine and then rub with just POG you will be amazed!  Also do a couple with a light sprinkle of cayenne and prepared to be even more amazed!  Try that on basically any meat no matter how you cook it (smoker, oven, skillet, grill, etc.) and you will be shocked at how simple it is to make grade A tasting food.

If you can't get to 325F I have noticed that placing the skin side down towards the heat can get you more edible skin.  It may not be crispy but it will often be acceptable to eat rather than being like leather :)

Best of luck and be sure to post your next attempt :)


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## nygiant (Jun 1, 2017)

TallBM said:


> Congrats on the success!
> 
> I wasn't much of a smoked chicken man myself until doing so many mods and using chicken as my cheap test meat hahahaha.  Now I am amazed at how well I am producing smoked chicken, it blew my mind how good it was.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tips.  Do you ever pull the skin back and put seasoning under it before cooking?  Also, not sure about the difference in brine. I wonder if there is any difference between briningbin buttermilk versus just salt water?  All I know is the breasts were so juicy. Kind of wondering if they would have been as juicy without the brine?


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## tallbm (Jun 1, 2017)

nygiant said:


> Thanks for the tips. Do you ever pull the skin back and put seasoning under it before cooking? Also, not sure about the difference in brine. I wonder if there is any difference between briningbin buttermilk versus just salt water? All I know is the breasts were so juicy. Kind of wondering if they would have been as juicy without the brine?


I do pull back the skin and season but that is usually whole chicken.  It wont hurt anything to do so with the skin except your skin may not stick to the meat as well as if you don't pull it back but hey you get even more flavor seasoning under the skin so I'm all in on it!

I don't think the buttermilk vs water vs other liquid will matter that much on juiciness.  You will juice with any brine as it will all get in the meat with the salt and then will retain moisture.  A simple salt + water brine is easy and inexpensive so feel free to try whenever.  It's what I do and I even just used table salt so I don't need to get fancy if I don't have kosher salt.

Finally, some guys report great results on breast meat and whole chickens without brining and report the key to being to cook about 157-160 and then to pull and let it rest until it hits 165F IT.  I have been brining white meat before I ever started smoking.  It works wonders for oven roasted chicken and the same for grilled chicken.  For dark meat I never bother, it is juicy enough all the time as long as you don't cook the crap out of it.

Chicken is cheap, so feel free to experiment :)


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## bluewhisper (Jun 1, 2017)

My mother was a great cook but she never adopted the method of peeling the chicken skin back. She would put all of the seasoning on the skin of a whole chicken and cook it until the skin was crisp - great skin but the meat underneath was dried out and bland.


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## nygiant (Jun 2, 2017)

TallBM said:


> I do pull back the skin and season but that is usually whole chicken.  It wont hurt anything to do so with the skin except your skin may not stick to the meat as well as if you don't pull it back but hey you get even more flavor seasoning under the skin so I'm all in on it!
> 
> I don't think the buttermilk vs water vs other liquid will matter that much on juiciness.  You will juice with any brine as it will all get in the meat with the salt and then will retain moisture.  A simple salt + water brine is easy and inexpensive so feel free to try whenever.  It's what I do and I even just used table salt so I don't need to get fancy if I don't have kosher salt.
> 
> ...



Sounds good....thanks for the tips and answering my questions.


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## 3montes (Jun 3, 2017)

I think I used the butter milk brine once years ago. I haven't done it since so I guess it wasn't that memorable. I do brine poultry every time I make it. I have used all sorts of ingredients in brines over the years. Lately I have gone to a brine mix that I found that I'm very happy with. I don't have to add all my own ingredients any longer it's all in the mix.

I use very little water in my brines. I always use apple juice or apple cider as the liquid agent. This does a couple things. It adds a very nice but subtle sweetness to the flavor of the chicken.

Secondly because of the sugars in the apple juice it helps caramelize the skin on the chicken while cooking and gives it a nice mahogany color and helps crisp it up a bit.

Personally I think the bite through skin is somewhat overrated and largely comes from the competition shows always overemphasizing it. If the chicken is seasoned and smoked properly and to the right internal temp it's going to be good if not excellent. The skin might not be bite through but it shouldn't rubbery either.


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## nygiant (Jun 5, 2017)

3montes said:


> I think I used the butter milk brine once years ago. I haven't done it since so I guess it wasn't that memorable. I do brine poultry every time I make it. I have used all sorts of ingredients in brines over the years. Lately I have gone to a brine mix that I found that I'm very happy with. I don't have to add all my own ingredients any longer it's all in the mix.
> 
> I use very little water in my brines. I always use apple juice or apple cider as the liquid agent. This does a couple things. It adds a very nice but subtle sweetness to the flavor of the chicken.
> Secondly because of the sugars in the apple juice it helps caramelize the skin on the chicken while cooking and gives it a nice mahogany color and helps crisp it up a bit.
> ...



 Sounds like a good idea. If you read this and you have it handy would you be able to send me your brine recipe? I would definitely be interested in giving it a try.


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