# MES 40  gen 2.5  pid wiring



## okiecat (Feb 6, 2018)

Just bought a Cabelas sportsman elite 40.  Also purchased a Auber WS-1510 ELPM.  Read the tutorial by Tallbm on wiring Gen 1.  My question is my wires are different  They all come from same place and I have 2 Copper braided looking wires but I don't know which one would be #4 or #3 as in the gen 1 Blk Braided ones.   It has the white (neutral), and the blk smooth.   took pics but don't have a clue how to load..


----------



## tallbm (Feb 6, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Just bought a Cabelas sportsman elite 40.  Also purchased a Auber WS-1510 ELPM.  Read the tutorial by Tallbm on wiring Gen 1.  My question is my wires are different  They all come from same place and I have 2 Copper braided looking wires but I don't know which one would be #4 or #3 as in the gen 1 Blk Braided ones.   It has the white (neutral), and the blk smooth.   took pics but don't have a clue how to load..



Without pics it will be hard to walk you through the wiring.  I only use a computer to access the site so I cant exactly walk you through uploading pics from your phone using the mobile app.  I add my pics the old fashion way by wiring up my phone to my laptop with a USB chord and then attaching the images that way.

Technically connecting either wire [1 to 3 and 2 to 4] OR [1 to 4 and 2 to 3] should work but lets try and be as accurate as possible with the wiring which is basically a good electrical practice :)
If you don't have a Multimeter with a continuity setting then get one.  With the Multimeter you can figure out which of your copper wires are #3 and #4 from the picture:







You will do so:

by unplugging your copper wires from the circuit board (it should be somewhat comparable to the circuit board in the image above)
Next unplug the connectors from the heating element
Next you need access to the rollout limit switch.  If you have a panel that allows you to access it then great, if not you will need to pull the back off your MES or confidently cut a panel to the switch... I suggest pulling the back off in that case and when it is pulled off you cut your panel, this will avoid cutting wires :)
Using the Multimeter and the continuity setting you check your unplugged Copper braided wires from the circuit board one at a time from the unplugged copper wire end to the rollout limit switch BOTTOM connector.  When the multimeter lights up and/or makes a noise you have technically found the HOT/black wire.  Wrap a piece of tape around that copper wire and label it HOT
Now to check the copper wires one at a time from the HEATING ELEMENT side to the rollout limit switch TOP connector and when the multimeter lights up or makes a noise you have found the HOT wire for the heating element, wrap a piece of tape around it and label it HOT
To do a thorough check, use the multimeter to check continuity from the labeled HOT copper wire from the HEATING element end and the labeled HOT copper wire from the CIRCUIT BOARD end and the multimeter should light up and/or make a noise.  This confirms that is the HOT wire and it travels from the circuit board to the rollout limit switch to the heating element

Confirm the NEUTRAL wire by using the multimeter on the continuity setting to check the unlabeled copper wire end from the CIRCUIT BOARD against the unlabeled copper wire from the HEATING ELEMENT.  The multimeter should light up and/or make a noise to confirm that the wires has continuity.  Use a piece of tape and label both ends of this wire as NEUTRAL.
NOW according to the image above the copper wire labeled HOT at the CIRCUIT BOARD end would be #3
According to the image above the copper wire labeled NEUTRAL at the CIRCUIT BOARD end would be #4
Now you can wire 1 & 3 together for the HOT wiring
You can wire 1 & 4 together for the NEUTRAL wiring
Get your hands on a Multimeter, a $5-$10 one with a continuity setting will do the trick.  I hope this helps out some.
Let me know if this makes any sense and get some pics posted as soon as possible :)


----------



## jimmyinsd (Feb 6, 2018)

i hope you can figure out the pictures...  i would like to see more pics of that smoker than the one pic they have on their website that doesnt really show much.  how much did you pay?


----------



## okiecat (Feb 6, 2018)

Thanks  thats detailed  thats also the reason I asked,  I am clueless when it comes to wiring and electronics.  I can do a lot of things but that is one that skipped me.  I do have a multimeter but Im going to try the pics first.  I like the idea of getting them of phone to my mac book.  We will see how that goes.


----------



## okiecat (Feb 6, 2018)




----------



## okiecat (Feb 6, 2018)




----------



## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Thanks  thats detailed  thats also the reason I asked,  I am clueless when it comes to wiring and electronics.  I can do a lot of things but that is one that skipped me.  I do have a multimeter but Im going to try the pics first.  I like the idea of getting them of phone to my mac book.  We will see how that goes.




Looks like you're in good hands on that, with Tallbm.

Bear


----------



## okiecat (Feb 6, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> i hope you can figure out the pictures...  i would like to see more pics of that smoker than the one pic they have on their website that doesnt really show much.  how much did you pay?


Sorry Jimmy,  I got busy reading the other post I missed yours.  Got the pics figured out.  Will take some more tomorrow.  Its on its back right now.  Paid about $290 at Cabelas, that was a couple wks ago.


----------



## tallbm (Feb 6, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Looks like you're in good hands on that, with Tallbm.
> 
> Bear


Bear thanks for the vote of confidence.  I think we will get him sorted out here :)



okiecat said:


> Thanks  thats detailed  thats also the reason I asked,  I am clueless when it comes to wiring and electronics.  I can do a lot of things but that is one that skipped me.  I do have a multimeter but Im going to try the pics first.  I like the idea of getting them of phone to my mac book.  We will see how that goes.



okiecat, looks like you are getting the pics sorted out and having that multimeter handy will be super helpful!
Those are good pics of the circuit board and the wires going to the circuit board.

Next, if you can get some good pics of the copper braided wires going up into the smoker from the circuit board that may help us out some.
Also a picture of the back of the smoker would help as well so we can see if you do or do not have a built in access panel to the rollout limit switch.
I guess pictures of the panels removed from the heating element and rollout limit switch (if it has a panel to remove) showing the wiring will be helpful as well.  I would be able to download those images, mark them up, and we would be looking and talking about the exact components of your smoker in that case :)

Here is a pic I have of me doing the final continuity check on the HOT wire from the circuit board to the heating element after I traced the HOT wire to the roll out limit switch and then from the rollout limit switch to the heating element wire.  You have to make sure the wires are also unhooked from the heating element when doing this or you can get a false reading.






You are well on your way my friend and I think we can get you sorted out :)


----------



## okiecat (Feb 7, 2018)




----------



## tallbm (Feb 7, 2018)

okiecat thanks for the pic of the heating element.  Is there another panel on the back of the smoker?
Also, I would need to see the wires in the area noted in the image below :)


----------



## okiecat (Feb 7, 2018)




----------



## okiecat (Feb 7, 2018)

The wire from circuit board are all together and go thru a hole.  Nothing to see to tell where there going.  Will get a pic tomorrow night.  Had to go to work today and tonight.  The pics and diagrams you have put up help me a ton understand what I’m trying to do.  Can’t work on it till Sat.  Thanks again


----------



## tallbm (Feb 7, 2018)

Well It is good to see that the roll out limit switch (your latest pic) has an access panel, so no need to pull the back off or cut a panel yourself.

On Saturday you can simply unhook the copper braided chords from the circuit board and from the heating element. 
Then you start to trace from the circuit board to the rollout limit switch then to the heating element to find the HOT wire.
The braided copper wire that that doesn't track from the circuit board to the rollout limit switch should be the neutral.

The key is to first find the braided copper wire that goes from the circuit board to rollout limit switch.  Don't even start trying to trace from the circuit board to the heating element wires until you find the one that goes from the circuit board to the limit switch.

I look forward to hearing how it all turns out :)


----------



## okiecat (Feb 8, 2018)

Great.  Sounds like even I can handle that.  Hope this helps others too with the 2.5 Gen


----------



## okiecat (Feb 9, 2018)

Got in tonight and went to shop to try the continuity game.  Well I’m a little confused so I made a diagram of what happened  The numbers are just to keep track of everything.


----------



## old sarge (Feb 9, 2018)

Just in case it is needed:

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/how-to-use-a-multimeter


----------



## okiecat (Feb 9, 2018)

Thanks Sarge,  I was lucky enough to find my owners manual for my multi meter of 15yrs ago.  If it reads 1 is that a complete circuit.  When it was reading 0 it would start out like 340 and rapidly count down to 0, in a matter of seconds.  Never heard a beep on either one, but I'm pretty deaf.


----------



## old sarge (Feb 9, 2018)

If the continuity is good, it should show 0.  Same as if you touch the two probes together..  Here is a video for a thermo couple shut off:


----------



## tallbm (Feb 9, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Got in tonight and went to shop to try the continuity game.  Well I’m a little confused so I made a diagram of what happened  The numbers are just to keep track of everything.



Ok I think some progress may have been made but I am going to try and make sure we are on the same page so I put together an image made from all of your posted images to this point and I marked up the images to try and match your notes.  Let me know if this is accurate and we will proceed from there.  

Also just to clarify, please confirm if you unhooked the copper wires from both the heating element and the circuit board when doing your continuity checks :)


----------



## okiecat (Feb 9, 2018)

Yes TallBM,  All wires were unplugged.  And your pics and diagram is correct


----------



## tallbm (Feb 9, 2018)

OK, so usually 0 readings (or really close to 0) indicates continuity.
I am going to make up  a little "chart".  I will fill in info from your notes and indicate tests/checks we need info on.

With wires unplugged from both the heating element and the circuit board we have the following:

3 to 7 = Continuity Established
4 to 6 = Continuity Established


8 to 5 = ? *need checked* (this is from limit switch to heating element)
8 to 6 = ? *need checked* (this is from limit switch to heating element)


3 to 8 = No Continuity, *Please double check this one*
3 to 5 = No Continuity, *Please double check this one*
3 to 6 = No Continuity, *Please double check this one*

Let's hold off on unplugging the wires/connectors from the rollout limit switch.  It is a little delicate and we don't want to damage it or else it will heat up due to resistance and wreak havoc :)
If we get stuck though, then we will move to unhooking the limit switch :)

Please report back with what you find on the new checks and the double checks.  Thanks!


----------



## dr k (Feb 10, 2018)

3-7 ok
8-5
4-6 ok
Plenty of lead to work with for the four cut , two splice solution.  That way you can leave enough wire to put it back if you want (leave a couple inches of wire on the connector side when cutting and leave the connectors where they are.)  After all this tracing I'd label each end of the wire with a tag of the same number.  First hot wire ends H1and H1.  Second hot wire ends H2 and H2.  Neutral wire ends N and N.  After cutting the fiberglass wires to splice label each two inch pigtail from cutting the wire with the corresponding H1 and N so you know at a glance where they were originally terminated.  The power cord wires can be paired up by color if you need to put it back.


----------



## okiecat (Feb 10, 2018)

ok  Waiting to get fire built in shop.  Its cold here today, 18 and wind chill 3*.  Also I have already unplugged rollout switch.  They had a barb on the connector.  Fortunately I had the correct pliers.  Also when I touch my terminal ends together it goes to is on 1 and stays there.  Going to take some more pics too.


----------



## okiecat (Feb 10, 2018)

okiecat said:


> ok  Waiting to get fire built in shop.  Its cold here today, 18 and wind chill 3*.  Also I have already unplugged rollout switch.  They had a barb on the connector.  Fortunately I had the correct pliers.  Also when I touch my terminal ends together it goes to is on 1 and stays there.  Going to take some more pics too.


Ok  3 to 7 is 00,  3 to all others is 1,   8 to 5 is 000,  8 to 6 is 1,  7 to 5 or 6 is 1    All terminals are unplugged,


----------



## okiecat (Feb 10, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Ok  3 to 7 is 00,  3 to all others is 1,   8 to 5 is 000,  8 to 6 is 1,  7 to 5 or 6 is 1    All terminals are unplugged,


Ok  3 to 7,  4 to 6,  5 to 8   All terminals accounted for.  Which ones hot and which ones neutral?


----------



## okiecat (Feb 10, 2018)

One more pic


----------



## dr k (Feb 10, 2018)

Wire 3-7 to snap disk is hot wire #1.  Wire 8-5 from snap disk to heating element is hot wire #2.  Wire 4-6 from other heating element leg is neutral.


----------



## okiecat (Feb 10, 2018)

dr k said:


> Wire 3-7 to snap disk is hot wire #1.  Wire 8-5 from snap disk to heating element is hot wire #2.  Wire 4-6 from other heating element leg is neutral.


Thanks Kurt,  I kinda thought I had the 3-7 wire figured out.  I want to say to all, especially Tallbm.  Thanks for all the help and patience.  I would not have started this project if not for Tallbm's original thread for the Gen 1 rewire.


----------



## dr k (Feb 11, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Thanks Kurt,  I kinda thought I had the 3-7 wire figured out.  I want to say to all, especially Tallbm.  Thanks for all the help and patience.  I would not have started this project if not for Tallbm's original thread for the Gen 1 rewire.


Since Tallbm did all the Gen 1 no back removal continuity work it is easy to memorize for when I do my Gen 1.  I got the PID down on programming etc.  I just need a snow free warmer day to make four quick cuts and two wire nut splices then auto tune.  When auto tuning for sou vide it's just the water bath so I'll just auto tune the smoker without a load inside the smoker.  Just the standard setup inside.


----------



## tallbm (Feb 12, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Ok  3 to 7,  4 to 6,  5 to 8   All terminals accounted for.  Which ones hot and which ones neutral?





dr k said:


> Wire 3-7 to snap disk is hot wire #1.  Wire 8-5 from snap disk to heating element is hot wire #2.  Wire 4-6 from other heating element leg is neutral.



Good work okiecat and Kurt.  Looks like you guys got it all handled.  I was kind of out of pocket all weekend and once I saw Kurt's answer I was happy to see it was resolved.  I figured I would chime back in once I got some time... which is now :D




okiecat said:


> Thanks Kurt,  I kinda thought I had the 3-7 wire figured out.  I want to say to all, especially Tallbm.  Thanks for all the help and patience.  I would not have started this project if not for Tallbm's original thread for the Gen 1 rewire.



No problem.  I'm glad I could help and I'm glad Kurt came to the rescue while I was out over the weekend.  
I think you will be rocking and rolling for sure!
Just a heads up, the rollout limit switch tabs are kind of delicate so if they ended up with some wiggle in them then they MAY overheat and the plastic portion of the switch melt down on you.  Generally it is a cheap part to replace but may drive you nuts if all of a sudden you see that you aren't hitting your set temp and your smoker temp control is acting funny.  That would be the first place I would look... I've learned the hard way and burnt up 3 of those switches because of attaching stiff electrical connectors on the delicate tabs/switch.  I have a new process for doing so that seems to be working out if you run into the issue :)




dr k said:


> Since Tallbm did all the Gen 1 no back removal continuity work it is easy to memorize for when I do my Gen 1.  I got the PID down on programming etc.  I just need a snow free warmer day to make four quick cuts and two wire nut splices then auto tune.  When auto tuning for sou vide it's just the water bath so I'll just auto tune the smoker without a load inside the smoker.  Just the standard setup inside.



Kurt my friend you will be in heaven once you have it setup.  It is so funny how awesome the MES becomes with a rewire + PID controller combined with the AMNPS.  It is freaking awesome! :)


----------



## dr k (Feb 12, 2018)

tallbm said:


> Good work okiecat and Kurt.  Looks like you guys got it all handled.  I was kind of out of pocket all weekend and once I saw Kurt's answer I was happy to see it was resolved.  I figured I would chime back in once I got some time... which is now :D
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since I have a window I'm going to miss the inside light bulb when going to the PID.  I really like it for over night smokes.


----------



## tallbm (Feb 12, 2018)

dr k said:


> Since I have a window I'm going to miss the inside light bulb when going to the PID.  I really like it for over night smokes.
> View attachment 353602



I never clean my window so the missing the light was not an issue hahahahaha but yeah that is one con to the rewire.  I didn't bother trying to wire in the light but I'm sure it isn't an impossible task BUT you might have to put in another switch or something :)


----------



## tallbm (Feb 18, 2018)

Here is an image with #1 and #2 marked on it.
Hooking #1 to 3 and #2 to 4 should give you the rewire you need for a PID.  Just be sure to check continuity from the plug back and splice points to the end points on the heating element and rollout limit switch.

Let us know how this turns out and if you have any other issues :)


----------



## okiecat (Feb 18, 2018)

Ok.  Just checked everything.   I had it right. 1/3 and 2/4.   Also unwind and ck continuity. 1 to left plug prong-00. Good.   2 to right plug prong—00 good.   3 to 7 000 good.  4 to6–00 good.  This also checked out with wires connected back.  What now


----------



## tallbm (Feb 18, 2018)

Right power prong to 6 should show continuity.
Left power prong to 5 should show continuity.

If this rings true then you should have power/juice running to the heating element.

Let me know if this continuity check passes.


----------



## okiecat (Feb 18, 2018)

Just got back.  ok Have continuity at plug.  RT to 6 and Lt to 5   Do I plug it in see if it will come on?  Like I said I don't like or do electrics very well.  Thanks


----------



## tallbm (Feb 18, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Just got back.  ok Have continuity at plug.  RT to 6 and Lt to 5   Do I plug it in see if it will come on?  Like I said I don't like or do electrics very well.  Thanks



Looks like you have done the job properly if you have that continuity showing.

I would plug it into the wall directly and keep the door of the smoker open.  No extension cords.
I would then would hold my hand close to the heating element to see that it starts heating up.  I wouldn't touch it.

If you feel it is heating up then your wire job should be good to go for moving to the PID controller and auto-tuning!!!


----------



## okiecat (Feb 18, 2018)

Do I try to turn the unit on or is this direct current to the element.  Last time I couldn't get switch board on.


----------



## tallbm (Feb 18, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Do I try to turn the unit on or is this direct current to the element.  Last time I couldn't get switch board on.



Your rewire should have bypassed the current controller and circuit board so when you plug in, it is on.  If plugged directly into an outlet it will suck power and never stop so don't do this other than when you are testing in this case.
After you confirm it is heating up when plugged directly in you can then hook it to the PID and plug the PID into the wall and it will control the power to the smoker at that point.


----------



## okiecat (Feb 18, 2018)

So  If its right,  the control panel on the Mes will not be used and maybe won't even come on?  Everything will be done at the PID,  Correct?  Ok if this is the case Im already up at house, so will test tomorrow night.  Thanks  I owe you one.  Is this the first Gen 2.5 rewire done on this forum?


----------



## tallbm (Feb 18, 2018)

okiecat said:


> So  If its right,  the control panel on the Mes will not be used and maybe won't even come on?  Everything will be done at the PID,  Correct?  Ok if this is the case Im already up at house, so will test tomorrow night.  Thanks  I owe you one.  Is this the first Gen 2.5 rewire done on this forum?


Correct,  the MES controller wont turn on.
Correct, everything will be done from the PID.
Just test that it heats up when u directly plug it into the wall.
Then hook up to the pid and confirm it is working with the pid and go from there :-)


----------



## dr k (Feb 19, 2018)

Get into the habit of putting the PID sensor in the smoker first on every smoke before before plugging the smoker into the PID and then the outlet receptacle.


----------



## tallbm (Feb 19, 2018)

dr k said:


> Get into the habit of putting the PID sensor in the smoker first on every smoke before before plugging the smoker into the PID and then the outlet receptacle.



I couldn't agree more hahaha.  Don't mess up and leave it out of your smoker or else you won't have a smoker for long if you plug everything up with the smoker probe sitting outside the smoker :D


----------



## okiecat (Feb 19, 2018)

Ok  Just getting in from work.  Going to test tomorrow night, I hope.  Thanks for warnings on PID.  and confirming how its suppose to work.  I printed out the 22 page instructions on the PID website and have read them.  This site is very lucky to have guys like you to help everybody with there problems.  Im so ready to get this thing going.  So I can make sausage.


----------



## dr k (Feb 19, 2018)

okiecat said:


> Ok  Just getting in from work.  Going to test tomorrow night, I hope.  Thanks for warnings on PID.  and confirming how its suppose to work.  I printed out the 22 page instructions on the PID website and have read them.  This site is very lucky to have guys like you to help everybody with there problems.  Im so ready to get this thing going.  So I can make sausage.


I'm looking forward to the six different PID cooking stages to ramp up to the final chamber temp for sausage.  You just have to add your preheat time to the first stage.  I may only use three but they are available.  After some time learning the PID and I know a smoke won't go over a specified time, I can set the last stage to 150*f to hold food indefinitely rather than just turn off.  Just in case I've got more than this smoke going on.


----------

