# Building an italian offset smoker



## ryoma

Hi 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I'd like to build an italian offset smoker
I have a little propane tank to build the firebox and I need a large propane tank to build the smoke chamber

I have some questions to do:

1) Is it better to build an horizontal or a vetical smoker??
I'd like to use the water (water smoker) and I need to understand if it is possible with an horizontal smoker.

2) Does the heat reach the smoke chember from the firebox directly??

3) Is there a bulkhead to distribuite the heat homogeneously like in this photo??





Thanks to all 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





P.S. i can't speak english well, so my girlfriend translate my mail and your  mail for me this is the reason of my delay


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## cheech

I'd like to build an italian offset smoker
I have a little propane tank to build the firebox and I need a large propane tank to build the smoke chamber

I have some questions to do:

1) Is it better to build an horizontal or a vetical smoker??
I'd like to use the water (water smoker) and I need to understand if it is possible with an horizontal smoker.

Anything is possible it is all about time and money. That being said it is easier and more common to have  a vertical water smoker, I have found that other than the water assisting in maintaining the smoker temperature it does not seem to make a large difference (others may feel differently on that)

2) Does the heat reach the smoke chember from the firebox directly??
Not sure what you mean here but if you are asking is there a transition from the firebox to the chamber well if you design it that way yes if not no. The reason you would not do it directly would be to cool it down a bit for a cold smoker or for placement of the fire box

3) Is there a bulkhead to distribuite the heat homogeneously like in this photo??
Depends on the design. I like the design of the Lang smokers and they use a reverse flow design that does. If not you will have some hot spots but if you move the meat around that should not be an issue


P.S. i can't speak english well, so my girlfriend translate my mail and your mail for me this is the reason of my delay 

No worries BBQ is a language all by itself


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## coleysmokinbbq

Hi Ryoma!...Greetings from Georgia, USA!

It is so nice to have someone representing Italy to join us here at SMF!...Welcome!... 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I will try to answers your questions as best as i am able. There are others here that can fill in any answers that I leave out in the event that I missed something..

Let's look at the questions now....

A-1) If built properly, water can be used in *BOTH* a horizontal and/or a vertical smoker.


A-2) *Yes* and *no*, dependent upon the way the smoker is constructed. I will explain more about this after question 3 since the answer to both questions are relative to each other.


A-3) The 'bulkhead' in the photo is actually a series of 'Tuning Plates'. These are used to 'tune' the heat distribution inside the cooking/smoking chamber.

Another, and quite different 'bulkhead' is illustrated and explained in *Post #21* of this thread which deals with the *Reverse Flow Horizontal Smoker-Cooker*.


To help explain this as well as my answer to question 2, let's look at the the photo below which illustrates the Tuning Plates and the Baffle Plate.

I also created a graphic which will help you visualize those things which are not visible in the photo.



*The Horizontal Smoker-Cooker w/ Offset Firebox*

To help orient us to what we are seeing in the photo, keep in mind the following:

The firebox is located to the right and below the 'Baffle Plate' and is not visible in the photo.

The opening from the firebox into the cooking/smoking chamber is just beneath the Baffle Plate and is hidden
from view.

The heat/smoke exits the cooking/smoking chamber through the exhaust flue (smoke stack, chimney, etc.)
which is located at the end of the smoker opposite the firebox and would be just outside the left edge of the
photo and is not visible.

In the photo below you can see the Baffle Plate and the Tuning Plates (TP-1, TP-3 through TP-6) with
TP-2 hidden from view under the metal grid just to the right of TP-3, and TP-6 is only partially visible to the
left of TP-5.

Notice also the Baffle Plate tilts or slopes gently downward from the right towards the left as you can see from the shadow of the cooking grid above it.
















Now I will try to explain how this all works.

As the heat/smoke flows into the cooking/smoking chamber, the downward sloping Baffle Plate directs the flow gently downwards and under the Tuning Plates as it flows from right to left towards the exhaust flue.

The Tuning Plates are adjustable and are positioned such that there is an open space between TP-1 and
TP-2. The width of the open spaces between TP-2 and TP-3, TP-3 and TP-4, TP-4 and TP-5, as well as
TP-5 and TP-6, are increased in width progressively as we proceed from right to left.

By making the spaces between the Tuning Plates wider, the amount of heat passing between the plates
will increase and make that area of the cooking/smoking chamber hotter.

By making the spaces between the Tuning Plates narrower, the amount of heat passing between
the plates will decrease and make that area of the cooking/smoking chamber cooler.

Through a trial and error process of adjusting the width of the spaces between the Tuning Plates, it is
possible to 'Tune' the cooking/smoking chamber to have an even temperature across the length of the
smoker from the firebox to the exhaust flue.

It must be noted however, that each individual smoker/cooker will have its own unique personality
and therefore will require its T.P.'s to be adjusted to its own individual characteristics...

Because of this, the adjustments outlined above are intended as a *starting point* *only!*...

For best performance the TP's should have a thickness of 1/4 to 1/2 inch (0.6 cm to 1.3 cm), with most
builders opting for a thickness range of 1/4 to 3/8 inch (0.6 cm to 0.9 cm), and should be made of iron
or steel in order to have the thermal mass necessary to moderate temperature fluctuations in the chamber.

Aluminum is not a suitable material for use in TP's since it lacks the thermal mass that is necessary.

Additionally, there is no set number of TP's to use in a smoker, nor is there a particular width of TP that must be used.

This is something you will have to decide based on the length of the chamber that you will be working with.

A greater length would require more TP's, a lesser length would require fewer TP's.

I created the graphics to reflect exactly what was shown in your photo, and this is the reason only 6 TP's are shown in them.









So...To complete my answer to to your second question:


*Without* the Baffle Plate and the Tuning Plates, *Yes*. The heat/smoke will enter *directly* into the cooking/smoking chamber, causing hot spots and cold spots.

In other words, the heat/smoke would begin almost immediately to rise towards the top of the cooking/smoking chamber where it would traverse the length of the chamber on its way to the exhaust flue. 

Because of this, the end opposite the firebox would remain relatively cool at cooking grid level. 



*With* the Baffle Plate and Tuning Plates, *No*. The heat/smoke will enter the cooking/smoking chamber *indirectly*, resulting in an even temperature throughout.

In this case, the Baffle plate, by sloping the heat/smoke downward, will in effect tuck the heat/smoke under the tuning plates, which will tend to act as a duct carrying the heat/smoke to the end opposite the firebox.

In the process of doing this, the tuning plates will be heated, which will then be able to release their stored heat under the cooking grid.

In addition, the heat/smoke which leaks upward through the progressively wider spaces (slots, gaps, etc.) between the tuning plates, will tend to surround any food items placed on the cooking grid, as well as even out the temperature from end to end in the chamber when adjusted properly.


Referring to your first question, a container of water may be placed on the Tuning Plates nearest the
firebox to produce steam to help regulate the temperature and to provide moisture in the cooking/smoking
chamber.

A steam table pan, or tray, such as those used in a cafeteria or restaurant, works exceptionally
well for this task.

These pans and trays are made of food grade stainless steel, are rectangular in shape, and are available
in several sizes and depths, and they will withstand the heat in the event of boiling dry.

Here is a photo example of them:




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Here are links to the websites of two different companies that build Horizontal Smoker Cookers w/ Offset Fireboxes...both are located in the state of Texas, in southern USA.

These websites have lots of photos that may be of help in planning the building of your smoker-cooker...sometimes a picture truly is worth a thousand words.

*BBQ Pits by Klose* located in Houston, Texas.

*Gator Pit of Texas* located in Houston, Texas.

The *'Pit Builders List'* has links to many other Smoker-Cooker builders.


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Next: The _*'Reverse Flow Horizontal Smoker-Cooker'*_

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I hope this has helped in some way...Good Luck in the building of your new Smoker-Cooker!...



Until Later...


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## ryoma

Hi 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I read your answers, my girlfriend is translating the texts

When she will finish I'll answer to you

Thanks to all


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## deejaydebi

Coley that's the best explanation of tuning plates I've heard yet! 
The picture sure helps to! Good job!


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## coleysmokinbbq

Debi...

Thanks!!... took me a while cuz I have to hunt 'n peck...never did learn to type...

If you think THAT's good....wait till you see the REST of the story!!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I've been in the process of creating some graphics to go with the answers to the ??'s...


Until later...


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## deejaydebi

WOW! I am impressed! Great Job Coley!

This should be a sticky!


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## squeezy

Yes 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Coley!

Well done! ...so easy to understand.


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## bigarm's smokin

*Coley, your drawings and explainations have helped me understand how to properly tune my home made smoker better than anything I have run across in the 5 years since we built it! I can't wait to start re tuning it! It dumb founds me that I couldn't see your simple yet effective logic my self. Thanks much my friend! Terry*


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## msmith

Coley you are very talented and have a very good sense of judgement. That is one awesome presentation. The pics you show have the smoke stack on the top of the smoker opposite the fire box. What if the smoke stack was cut in under the grate level?.


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## coleysmokinbbq

Thanks Guys!!...It's VERY humbling to receive all those wonderful compliments!!...

Now ya'll done went and got me blushing!... 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Just trying to use the talents the Lord blessed me with to help others...Couldn't do it without His help!!!

I hope the post will be of help to all that read it.

First things first though...Hi there Terry!...Welcome aboard the SMF!...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Glad you joined our little family here!!

It's a Great place to be...Great Folks, Great Food, Tons of info...and More Fun than you can shake a stick of firewood at!...

If you haven't done it yet, then check out Jeff's Free 5 Day eCourse!...Lots of good stuff in there...Take it from Me!...

And Hey...You can't knock the price!...

Again...Welcome Aboard Terry!...I know you're gonna like it here...

Please let me know how you come out with the adjustments. But be warned...it will take some 'fiddlin' around with the TP's. Thanks.


- - - - - - - - - - - - 


Hi there Marvin!,

I've read about bringing the stack down to, or even under grate level, in an attempt to lessen the temperature differential between the firebox end and the end opposite the firebox. 

In reading about this I've learned that some swear by it, and others swear at it...lol...however the majority do the former rather than the latter.

When it comes down to trying it...IMHO it should be tried in a non-destructive and non-permanent way...at least until it is determined whether or not the results are satisfactory.

With that said...Give her a whirl and see if it gets the results you desire.

It can probably be done with aluminum clothes dryer duct or hose...and if it works the way you want, then all you gotta do is make it permanent.

On the other hand...if it doesn't work as expected, there's really nothing lost except a little time and a couple bucks worth of dryer duct.

Be sure to keep me posted. 

I am concerned about the possibility of over-doing it and making things a mite too warm toward the top of the chamber. It most likely won't be a problem though.

I created some graphics for you about some possible configurations for lowering the flue...





 


 





I'm not certain at this point if the flue would need to be lowered more or not. I feel that this is about the best compromise at this point for a smoker with two grates for balancing the temps between the top and bottom grates, without being too hot, or too cool on either, or both. 

If there were only one grate in the lower position, I feel that it could be brought in at a lower position.

Please remember...This is only one mans humble opinion, and is NOT wrote in stone. 

This needs to be tested thoroughly before considering making any changes to an existing smoker. 

Hopefully...this may be food for thought on the subject and perhaps others here will have some better suggestions on this matter.

I hope this may have helped in some small way...

To you and to the others...Thanks again guys for the compliments!


EDIT: On further research it has come to my attention that, due to having received wrong information in the past, VOC's are not as much of a problem as first thought. Therefore, the section on VOC's has been removed so as not to be misleading to anyone on this subject. Thanks


Until later...


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## shellbellc

Wow, awesome!  You could make a great slide show presentation to show at a smokers anonymous meeting!


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## chris_harper

i have read to leave the smoke stack wide open, controlling heat with the intake damper. my smoke stack has no damper. i  have a rain shanty on top, that i do pull off sometimes. depends on the weather.


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## deejaydebi

Coley -

If the VOC vent is below the top of the cook chamber won't it just recycle the VOCs back into the smoker? The general consenus is to put the stack in the side level with the grates to generate even air/smoke flow accross the grates.

In general I don't think the VOCs are a big concern but with a side firebox maybe you could add a high temperature vent filter on the instake. With a vertical it'd probably have to go between the wood box and the water pan. so you don't absorb the moisture.

Excelent illustrations kiddo!


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## ryoma

Hi 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Hi Coley 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





My girlfriend is just came back from the university and she translate your answer for me
Your exlpanations are excellent and hour graphics very helpful.

She needs to translate my answer for you

Sorry for the delay

Thanks to all


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## coleysmokinbbq

Hi Ryoma,

I'm glad to be of help to you!... 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 I have more work to do to on graphics and the text as this continues to be a work in progress. 

As you have probably noticed, more info has been added to the post.

I'm working on it whenever I'm able to do so, but it is still going to take me a while to finish with it.

Hopefully, as work continues, it will be of even more help to you.

Before long you'll have that smoker built, seasoned, fired up, and smoking your first load of BBQ in it! 

I'm getting excited about it already!! 

*Hungry too!!! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	



*


Until later...


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## hawgheaven

Coley, that is the best explanation of smoker dynamics I have ever seen... great job! Thanks for sharing your talents and wisdom with us!


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## smokincowboy

Wow Conley you are good I could even understand that with the pics man your good I have read the posts about this before but now I think I want to build my own big smoker


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## coleysmokinbbq

Thanks Guys!!...

I've still got some work to do before that post is finished...gonna be a lo-o-o-ong post before it's over with!!...

Like I said...'Stay Tuned!...Don't Touch That Dial'!...

May have to rewrite some of it to make a sticky or sumpthin'...

Glad all the hard work is helping folks!!...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	






Until later...


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## linescum

Hey coley what freq. do you hang on 73's KB3GHW


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## coleysmokinbbq

There's another alternative...

*The Reverse Flow Horizontal Smoker-Cooker*


Now we're going to take a look at a different type of smoker-cooker which operates in a very different way.

Before we begin, we need to review the questions you have asked since there are some significant differences in the way this smoker-cooker works.


Let's take another look at the questions since some of the answers have now changed....


A-1) If built properly, water can be used in *BOTH* a horizontal and/or a vertical smoker. In this type smoker-cooker it is not necessary to place a container into the cooking/smoking chamber.

Water may be added directly to the 'Drip Pan' to provide moisture in the chamber if desired.


A-2) *No.* With this type smoker-cooker, due to its design and the way it is constructed, the heat always enters the cooking/smoking chamber in an indirect manner as you will see.


A-3) *Yes*. The 'bulkhead' in this type smoker-cooker is, in actuality, the 'Drip Pan'. 

Note that there are no 'Tuning Plates' needed, nor is there a place to put them.



Now let's take a look at the graphics as I attempt to explain how they work...










One of the first things you will notice is the 'Exhaust Flue' is now located at the same end as the 'Firebox'
rather than the opposite end, as in the first cooker we looked at. The 'Reverse Flow' Smoker-Cooker
requires this for proper operation, as we will see.

The second thing you will notice is the absence of 'Tuning Plates' in the chamber, since there are none
needed in this type cooker.

The third thing you will notice is that we now have a 'Drip Pan' in the area occupied by the TP's in the
first cooker we looked at.

The primary purpose of the 'Drip Pan' is to cause the heat/smoke to enter the cooking/smoking
chamber in an indirect manner by acting as a duct to the end of the chamber opposite the firebox.

In doing this it also acts as a thermal mass that stores some of the heat, and releases the stored heat
in an even manner to the food above it, thereby causing the temperature to be fairly even throughout
the chamber.

In other words it acts as a buffer to tame and even out the heat thereby eliminating hot spots, and
this is accomplished without the need for 'Tuning Plates', or the tedious adjustment they require.

The end to end temperature differential is typically less than 10* in this type of smoker-cooker.

The secondary purpose of the 'Drip Pan' is to collect the fat (grease) that drips from the meat being
cooked and channel it out of the cooking/smoking chamber through the open drain to an external
container placed under the drain.

A third minor function of the 'Drip Pan' is that with the drain valve closed, water may be added to it
in order to add moisture to the cooking/smoking environment inside the chamber thereby, in effect,
causing it to then operate as a water smoker.

This will also help to moderate any temperature differentials inside the chamber.


http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/117/reverseflowhorizontalsmbb8.png


In this graphic notice that as the heat/smoke exits the firebox that it must travel horizontally
and to the left underneath the 'Drip Pan' to reach the opposite end of the smoker-cooker.

During this time some of the heat will be transferred to its thermal mass.

As the heat/smoke arrives at the end of the chamber opposite the firebox it must turn upward
and reverse the direction of flow, then traverse the length of the chamber to the firebox end where
it will exit the chamber through the exhaust flue.

This smoker-cooker derives its name, '*Reverse Flow*', from this reversing heat/smoke flow path.

As the heat/smoke is now above the 'Drip Pan' and is flowing toward the firebox end of the
chamber, it will flow around and over the meat and food items on the 'Cooking Grid'.

In addition, the heat stored in thermal mass of the 'Drip Pan' is constantly being released to the
food on the 'Cooking Grid' above it in an even and gentle manner.

As you can see, the heat/smoke will surround the meat and food items completely.

Any of the watery drippings which collect in the 'Drip Pan' will be vaporized into steam which will
add moisture to the environment inside the cooking/smoking chamber without the need to add water,
although water may be added to the 'Drip Pan' if desired.

Under normal circumstances, water would not be added to the 'Drip Pan.

The rendered fat (grease) would simply flow down and exit the cooker via the drain.









In this graphic, the view is from the firebox end looking toward the end opposite the firebox,
and is shown with water in the 'Drip Pan' for the sake of illustration.

The gray colored areas represent the end plate of the 'Drip Pan' and the drain tube.

As you can see, it is built in the shape of a shallow trough so that any drippings from the
meat being cooked would flow toward the center and down the drain and out of the cooker.

The space under the 'Drip Pan' is open and acts as the duct which carries the heat/smoke to
the end of the chamber opposite the firebox.

The 'Drip Pan' is constructed of flat plate and 90* angle.



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Here are links to the websites of two different companies that build Reverse Flow Horizontal Smoker Cookers...both are located in the state of Georgia, in southeastern USA.

These websites have lots of photos that may be of help in planning the building of your smoker-cooker...sometimes a picture truly is worth a thousand words.

*Cookers and Grills* is in the northern part of state at Union Point, Georgia.

*Lang Smoker Cookers* is in the southeastern part of the state at Nahunta, Georgia.

The *'Pit Builders List'* has links to many other smoker-cooker builders.


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*Previous:  The 'Horizontal Offset Smoker w/ Offset Firebox'*

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I hope this has helped in some way...Good Luck in the building of your new Smoker-Cooker!...


Until Later...


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## ryoma

Hy Coley 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Tank you for your explanations
Your plans are excellent and very clear. They helped me a lot.
I'd like to build a smoker like the one in the photo, with the same sizes 
(lang 48Patio - 60mobile)





I have a lot of questions to do:

1) Which kind of fuel is better to use?
Wood, charcoal, or a mixture between both???
It is very important for me to understand this concept

2)Which are the difference between a normal smoker and a reverse flow smoker and which is the best between then??

3) Could I build an horizontal smoker using another kind of plan? which kind of plan could I use to build it??

4) which is the best horizontal smoker?
I'd like to see some photos to copy the project

5) Which is the peculiarity of this smoker??

6) Are there any popular plans to build-on one's own thereverse flow  and the normal smoker?

Thanks to all


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## zapper

BUT WAIT!!!  There's more!

I have seen a sort of hy-bred or at least a slightly different take on the reverse flow, tuning plates and water pans!

The reverse flow had a tube that carried the heat to the far end of the cooking chamber. The tube was (I am guessing) a 10" or 12" square tubing like for a building column. The tube was situated in such a manor that one corner was up or what I would call on edge. As far as I could tell the tube was not attached to the cooking chamber, just the fire box or that end of the chamber, which is a story in itself. Soooo, all four sides of the tube could radiate heat and the far end was open for heat and smoke.

The tuning plates/water pans/drip pans were jus that!  About 10" wide 1/8-1/4" steel plate with angle iron welded all around to form a pan. These were placed on angle iron rails and rode just above the heat tube. Adjusting the spacing between the pans/plates helped to spread out the heat.



Never saw the beast in action, but it looked like an old school design and it looked like it had seen alot of action!

Interesting in that the fire box had some clever damper controls for a rear firebox air inlet, a firebox to cooking chamber damper, a firebox out damper on the firebox stack, a cooking chamber out damper on the chamber stack and a damper on the door the the firebox. It looked like this thing could be tweaked for all conditions or preferences.


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## ryoma

Hi Zapper 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I'm sorry,but i couldn't understand well your answer. 
Could  you explain me those concepts with any plans and a most  comprehensive language?

Thank you.

bye


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## zapper

Sorry, sometimes what I think does not come out of my mouth well and usually what comes out of my mouth was not thought about very well.


I was just commenting about a reverse flow type smoker that I have seen. It differed somewhat from what would be the "standard" style as pictured in the post above (#21)

The differences were that the heat and smoke left the fire box through a square tube/pipe and traveled to the far end of the smoker in this tube/pipe. Typically I think that the reverse flow smoker channels the smoke and heat to the far end of the smoker by using a flat steel plate to create the ducting tube.

Also the unit that I am talking about did not have a permanent built in drip/water pan. Instead it used several smaller removable and movable drip/water pans. By carefully installing these drip/water pans in stratigic locations and spacings, the heat inside the cooker could be evened out or fine "tunned" So these were also used as tunning plates.



Sorry, no PICs.


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## deejaydebi

So Zapper the drip/water pans were actually water filled tuning plates ad the square channel sends the heat to the opposite end of the smoker first?


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## bbq bubba

That's how i'm understanding it. Same idea Zapper, just a different style that builder uses, would like to see how that works though


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## zapper

Yep. But like I said, I did not see the beast in action. It looked like a clever idea because no matter where you dump the heat into the cooking chamber there is gonna be a hot spot, so even with the reverse flow you still get the option to tune things


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## ryoma

Hi 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Are the differences between an horizontal smoker with baffle plate and tuning plates; between an horizontal smoker with baffle plate and "tuning tube"; and a reverse flow smoker (lang smoker)

I don't konw if I'd like to to build a horizontal water smoker in particolar a “lang clone” model. 48 Patio




or a "[size=-1]Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker clone" [/size]using a 35"x24" propane tank





Thanks to all


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## richtee

No wonder why you were Knighted, Coley!

What a dissertation... Impressive!


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## vlap

Now for the silly question. Is there a difference between an Italian smoker and an American one? Or is the smoker in question just being made in Italy?


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## richtee

I dunno. I thought it was mainly for smoking Italians?


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## coleysmokinbbq

Hi Ryoma!...

I offer my apologies for the delay in trying to answer your questions, but due to my ISP discontinuing service to all their dial-up customers I was completely offline for almost 2 months beginning on July 2, and was therefore not able to work on any of this material.

Over the course of the last few days I have updated the information contained in *Post #3*,
and also that contained in *Post #21*.

Please review the material as it will be of benefit to you, and should help in answering some of your questions.


Thanks you for your patience in this matter.


Now let's take a look at some of those questions...


.
The choice of fuel for most folks will vary depending several things such as personal preference, cost, availability in their area, etc. 

Either wood or charcoal can be used quite successfully and with good results, whether used individually, or in combination with each other.

One popular method of firing the smoker is the use of charcoal to make a good bed of coals, then add wood as needed to maintain the desired temperature, as well as to maintain the bed of coals.

Another way is build a fire in the firebox of the smoker using only wood, letting it burn down to coals, then beginning to add wood as needed to maintain the desired temperature, and here again to maintain a good bed of coals.

Another method is the use of a *'Burn Barrel'* with which to burn down the wood to coals, then shovel the coals as needed into the smokers firebox...This method requires more work, but the results are usually well worth the effort...

This is one of the more traditional way of producing wood coals for cooking barbecue here in the southeast.

It must be remembered...those coals from the *'Burn Barrel'* will produce the 'Thin Blue Smoke' you need to properly smoke your food items, without the necessity of adding raw wood to the firebox when using this method...

The preferred charcoal to use is 'Lump Charcoal'...It burns hotter but for a shorter length of time than charcoal briquettes...

On the other hand, briquettes will burn for a longer time, but with a reduced heat output.


The *Horizontal Smoker-Cooker w/ Offset Firebox* section in *Post #3*, and the section on the 
*Reverse Flow Smoker-Cooker* in *Post #21* have both been updated over the last few days and are now more or less complete.

Please refer to those sections for a description of the difference between both these types of cookers.

The updated material should now offer a clearer understanding of the differences between them.

As to which is better...Neither is necessarily better or worse than the other.

All smokers will exhibit their own individual 'personality' and it is up to the person operating the cooker to learn the kinks and quirks of their smoker, and how to bring out the positive aspects of its personality, while at the same time working around and minimizing the negative aspects...

I wish I could give you a better answer to this, but unfortunately, these 'personality' traits are individual to each smoker...even in ones built identically to each other.

Each type smoker will have some advantages, as well as disadvantages over another type of smoker.

Let's look at just two points:

1.) The smoker represented in *Post #3* would probably be easier and less complicated to build, however would be somewhat harder to operate initially, at least until the tuning plates are adjusted properly.

2.) On the other hand, the smoker represented in *Post #21* is somewhat more complex in design and would be harder and more complicated to build, however it would be much simpler to operate from the start since there is no tuning necessary in this type cooker.

Again...Please refer back to *Post #3* and *Post #21* for more information on this.


Sure you can!...I haven't researched it, but I would imagine there are probably many different plans on the internet which you could work from in the building of your smoker.

Or...You could draw up a set of plans of your own design to include the features you would desire in your smoker also.

You're limited only by your imagination!...


I'm not certain exactly how to answer this question.

Are you asking which is the best:

Design?
Manufacturer?
Material?
What exactly?

Let me know and I'll come back and edit this post to include the answer you're seeking.


[EDIT]
Hi Ryoma!...

Text character quantity constraints would not allow space for editing in the answers to your updated questions in this post.

Please refer to your *Post #43* for the answers to those questions.

Thanks!...
[END EDIT]


Quote:
I've edited Cheech's quote to include your 3rd question from your *Post #1*, which he was answering.

Basically what Cheech was saying is that a reverse flow smoker such as the Lang's DO have the 'bulkhead' that you were asking about.

That 'bulkhead' in the Lang Reverse Flow smoker is known as the 'Drip Pan'.

I have explained all about this in *Post #21* which I have updated during the last few days.


I haven't researched this, but there are most likely many plans available on the internet, however I'm not certain of this.

At your convenience, try doing an internet search for these kinds of plans.

Hopefully there will be lots of them.



I hope these answers will be of help to you!...

Thanks again for your patience...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	







Until later...


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## coleysmokinbbq

ZAPPER!...

Do these graphics look anything like what you were talking about?...


























Let me know how close they are to what you saw...

The air intake dampers are not shown...

Thanks...


Until later...


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## zapper

@ Coley

Yep, it looks about like I remember as far as the general idea goes.

The fire box did not project into the cooking chamber as you have it drawn. I seem to think that it did not even share a common wall and at about this junction there was a gate type damper operated by a lever.

There was only one stack on the cooking chamber. (Closest to the firebox) But two stacks with dampers would add to the overall adjustability and confusion!

The fire box had, as I recall, a short wide ash clean out door at the back. Above this there was a row of holes with a matching sliding damper. There was also a damper at the side away from the cooking chamber and one on the door to the fire box. I am thinking that the dampers were reclaimed from old wood stoves or the likes and applied to the homemade firebox (which in and of itself could have also been reclaimed from maybe an old boiler or commercial application) The firebox had its own stack (dampered I assume) but I don't recall if the firebox section could have been used as a high temp grill. I am assuming that the top of the firebox could be used as a warming surface for pots and pans, but I just don't recall seeing if there were provisions to use a grate for grilling inside of the firebox.


I spent a little time marveling at the Beast, but I did not take any photos out of respect for the builder. I didn't want to be too obvious that I was stealing alot of what I thought are clever ideas (Maybe next year if I return) 


Your drawing looks good, what program are you running to draw with? I have a couple CAD programs, but no time to master them (I struggle)


Extend the cooking grate/grill to the ends of the cooking chamber along with the waterpans/tunning plates/drip pans, and you pretty much have it


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## coleysmokinbbq

I'm having to use MS Paint...Don't have a CAD program here!...

Like anything else from MS...there's LOTS of aggravation in the time of using it!!...

If I could only find my Corel disk......but that's another story......

If you're in the 404 or 770 area...maybe we can get on the 600 ohm service sometime...


Until later...


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## deejaydebi

Coley I can't believe you did this in paint! Boy you are good! If you are not a professional illustraor you should be!


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## ryoma

Hi Coley 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I'll send you an answer as soon as I'll translate the text

Thanks to all

Ryoma


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## zapper

I do commend you on your drawings. It really wouldn't matter what program you are running, the details are what matters and that is done by the operator and not the program. 


OK, I'll bite, What is the 600 Ohm service? Phone?

I live down here by the Atlanta Motor Speedway, but I work mostly on the north side of the big city.


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## coleysmokinbbq

Sorry about that!...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...The '600 Ω'...or '600 ohm' service would refer to the telephone...

Being a 'Ham', I tend at times to use some of the same common euphemisms for the telephone as do other 'Hams'...lol...

Just thought if you were local to 770 that maybe we could discuss this cooker in that manner...

If so...just shoot me a PM with a #....
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	






Until later...


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## safety1

VERY IMPRESSIVE and INFORMATIVE!!!  This is why I spend my slow time at work here and not on some of the other lame sites.  Thanks again.


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## ryoma

Hi Coley 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






At the moment I have a doubt!!!
Horizontal or Vertical???

I have a question for you:
Considering the quality of cooking:
1) Which is the best smoker between an horizontal (Lang clone) and a vertical (Stump clone or Brinkmann Smoke King clone or another!!!!)
2) Which is the easiest smoker to construct? I suppose the vertical one

I am thinking to build a vertical smoker because I think it is the easiest one

Sorry, when I will have a correct  translation I'll answer to you

Thanks to all

Ryoma


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## coleysmokinbbq

Hi Ryoma!...

In answer to these questions...

If we consider the quality of cooking, or more specifically, the quality of the BBQ products cooked on these cookers:

1) Both the horizontal and the vertical types of smoker-cookers will make high quality BBQ. 

The ability to produce high quality BBQ is dependent upon 'learning the personality' of the smoker.

Once learned, by working with the positive aspects of its 'personality', while at the same time minimizing the negative aspects, you will be able to produce high quality BBQ.


In considering the ease of construction...

2) Generally, the box type smoker, whether vertical or horizontal, is of a more straightforward design resulting in it being easier to design, as well as being easier to construct.

One important consideration of any smoker-cooker to be used at home is the 'footprint' of the smoker...in other words, the amount of 'floor space' that is necessary for the smoker to sit on.

In this respect the vertical smoker-cooker will have a much smaller 'footprint' than will the horizontal smoker-cooker.

With careful planning, the vertical can offer more cooking grid area in less floor space than a horizontal.

So...in general terms, I would say that a vertical box type of smoker-cooker is probably easier to build.


Hope this helps!...


Until later...


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## ryoma

Hi Coley 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I'm not sure if the best thing will be to build a BBQ and a Smoker separately or together in the same structure.

In the first case I am thinking to build a vertical smoker because I think it is the easiest one
in the second case the smoker must be horizontal.

I haven't got problems with space so I could build both, horizontal smoker and a separate bbq-grill

I'd prefer to build a vertical smoker and a horizontal bbq-grill separately 

I also need to understand how the diamond plate works; have you got a plane of this smoker?

What do you mean with "smoker personality"?

Thanks to all

Ryoma


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## deejaydebi

Ryoma- 
Pardon il mio italiano - è stato da lungo tempo all'io spoke la lingua della mia madre. La ho persa a cielo venti sette anni fa.

Il mio fratello il più facile costruire e cuoco sopra è il verticale. Potete ottenere il gas del propano là facilmente?

Penso che siate soddisfatti con la costruzione e l'uso di un'unità verticale del propano. Faccio molti alimenti italiani - salsiccie, prosciutto di Parma, formaggio, peprone, capacollo funziona bene per me.

Spero correttamente la I detta alcune cose Se non sono spiacente che ho ottenuto l'aiuto dal programma destinato all'elaboratore.

Il dio benedice!

Debi

-----------------------------------------------------------------

English ( I hope I said)

Pardon my Italian. It has been A long time since I spoke the language of my mother. I lost her to heaven 27 years ago.

My brother – it is easier to construct and use a vertical  smoker. Can you get propane gas there easily?

I make many Italian foods – sausages, prosciutto di Parma, cheese, peperoni, capacollo and it works well for me.

I hope I said some things correctly If not I'm sorry I got help from the computer program.

God Bless!

Debi


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## zapper

@Ryoma

Not sure that there is a better or easier because it all "depends"

Alot of folks that build their own tend to use materials that are on hand or easy for them to come by or work with. The ease of construction is relative too, some may have a whole shop full of tools and the skills to use them, while others may not.

It is kind of a little mental juggling act. Weighing the construction materials, the construction tools and skills and the end form that is desired for a smoker.

I would try to consider building a smoker that is as versitle as I could design and build and still stay within limits of what I thought would be practical. That is, I would love to be able to do whole pigs, but I don't really think that I would be doing more than one a year. I also like like compactness but think that a full rack of spare ribs would be the minimum size determinating factor.  Do you plan on hanging a smoker full of sausage and how much at a time? Do you think that you would be doing more than two racks of ribs at a time and then how many?


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## ryoma

@ DeejayDebi

Your Italian is very clear Thank you for your answer.
I hope to understand as soon as possiblile what kind of smoker, between the orizontal and the vertical, is the best for me

@ Zapper
I haven't problem with tools or the skill to use them.
I think the best offset smoker for me in dimension is one that has a smoke chamber like a 55 gallon steel drum.
Wich is the best way to use it, in horizontal or vertical way?

The vertical way like Brinkmann Smoke King clone
The horizontal way like Diamond Plate clone 70% or Lang 40 clone 30%

I tink the vertical way (Brinkmann Smoke`N Pit Smoke King) is the best for me, but I'm not sure






Thanks to all


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## johngil

Awesome Coley! Thanks for all the info. This definatly helps..


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## wavector

I have to agree Ryoma. This type of smoke is the most versatile and easier to maintain. Only decision now is how big?

Visit this site to get some specifications on how to properly size the smoker.

http://home.nik-martin.com/smoker/Default.aspx


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## zdave

What an awesome post.  If someone were considering building a reverse flow smoker, I would assume it would be important to calculate how low to put the drip pan.  I would think that a smoker with more space below the drip pan would be capable of higher temperatures limited by how much you can open the intake, but this would come at a loss of capacity.  A smoker with the pan too low and not enough space below the drip pan may not reach ideal temperature.  Correct?  What would the optimum ratio be for airflow?  I know it's not a precise drawing but the diagram would indicate about 1/3 of the space would be below the drip pan.


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## smoke_chef

Wow... how did this thread come to an end over a year ago??

This thread was like a good book. I just couldn't "put it down". BUT, it feels like a chapters are the end are missing. If I'm understanding it right... Zdave posted last in March of 2008 with an excellent question. 

Coley... what an outstanding job you have done with this. Please pick it back up. I'm loving it!


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## matts

Saw this thread linked on another recent one and I learned a lot from it.  Thought I would bring it up for more newbs like myself.


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## handymanherb

Question, every link I click on take me to a fireworks page, couldn't figure what that had to do with reverse flow unit.

Don't get me wrong we love fireworks to and want to make some of them too


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## sqwib

HandymanHerb said:


> Question, every link I click on take me to a fireworks page, couldn't figure what that had to do with reverse flow unit.
> 
> Don't get me wrong we love fireworks to and want to make some of them too


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## handymanherb

I click on link about reverse flow smoker and get this  http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/55133/fireworks-store#post_60074


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## sqwib

HandymanHerb said:


> I click on link about reverse flow smoker and get this  http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/55133/fireworks-store#post_60074


Got it

Post #3 by ColeySmokinBBQ 

This is a very old thread and the links could have gotten messed up, pm ColeySmokinBBQ 

and see if he remembers where the link was from.


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## gyeakle

Where is the best place to get step by step or how to for building a smoker/grill out of 250 gal. propane tank


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## sqwib

gyeakle said:


> Where is the best place to get step by step or how to for building a smoker/grill out of 250 gal. propane tank




gyeakle... this is a very old thread I think you may have better success starting a new thread


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## coleysmokinbbq

I think I have the links repaired now!....
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





........er....um....I hope!....


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## pineywoods

ColeySmokinBBQ said:


> I think I have the links repaired now!....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ........er....um....I hope!....


Thank you sir this is a great thread that I personally refer people to quite often


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## tngrillguy

I am hoping that this thread is still kicking around as it is DAMN fine!

So, I note that in the RFHS-C there is _no_ damper on the offset firebox.  I wanted to make sure that this wasn't a mistake.  I also have a couple of questions I hope someone could answer (250 gal 36" diameter x 62" length):

The best 'catch-all' height extending above and below the barrel;
The best 'catch-all' height to set the top of the drip pan at;
The depth of the drip pan (I know it states to angle down to 90 which I presume is really a 45 degree bastard angle) in that say from the top horizontal to the bottom of the 45 degree angle;
The best material to use for the drip pan; and
A best 'catch-all' dimension for the firebox.
I thank you, in advance, for taking the time to answer!


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## gyeakle

I got 250 gallon propane tank to make rev. flow smoker/grill . Got one shot at this and need help . Does anyone know where to get a start to finish plan for making this right the first time. We are trying to get this done so we can have cook out here at the firestation this summer. Thanks


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## fpnmf

gyeakle said:


> I got 250 gallon propane tank to make rev. flow smoker/grill . Got one shot at this and need help . Does anyone know where to get a start to finish plan for making this right the first time. We are trying to get this done so we can have cook out here at the firestation this summer. Thanks


Ummmmm yeah.. start at the first page and read everything on this thread.

You might also stop by roll call and introduce yourself..

  Have a great day!!!

  Craig


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## tngrillguy

So, maybe someone can simply answer whether or not any specific measurements, other than those which are common sense, apply?  What I mean is this:  Will the numbers affect the performance of the smoker in and of itself?

I read through the thread before I posted (I know the above post is not directed to me) and didn't really see any numbers.  The damper is kinda common sense I suppose; however, as I have never done this before I want to make _sure_ I do it right the first time as money and resources are scarce here in the mountains.

Thanx again!


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## Dutch

TNGrillGuy- There are no detailed  plans as such here at SMF. There are, however some very detailed builds in which to draw your own ideas from. Also of great use is the pit calculator.  A member posted a great thread on his reverse flow smoker build. It is loaded with pictures from start to finish. You can link to unclebeefs smoker build here . Unclebeefs build is one of many here at SMF, the reason that it comes to mind is because it's the ideas in this build that my son and son-in-law are using for building their own RF.


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## sqwib

Here is a link to my build and on that blog is a pit calculator as well as in my signature, hope that helps.

Moderators please delete link if it breaks forum rules.

*Frankensmoker Build*


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## tngrillguy

@Dutch:  Thank you for the links!  Also, thanx for setting me straight as it will save time.

@Sqwib:  Thank you also!  I can take your pix and really see where I need to go! 

I will keep all abreast!


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## Dutch

TNGrillGuy said:


> @Dutch:  Thank you for the links!  Also, thanx for setting me straight as it will save time.
> 
> @Sqwib:  Thank you also!  I can take your pix and really see where I need to go!
> 
> I will keep all abreast!


Not a problem-that's why the Boss pays me big bucks as an admin.


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## gyeakle

Thanks sqwib,  what imhaving problems with  is how far to weld the bottom plate on 250 gal. propane tank and how big is the hole coming from the fire box. Your smoker looks real nice . wish i would have done a smaller one now. If anyone has this i will pay for it. Thanks [email protected]


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## sqwib

I would like to point out with my build the original convection problem

The heat was Hammering the top of the firebox and the firebox was cut into the tank.

I had to install baffle plates (red), now temps are about 12 degree variation at 200- 250 degrees.

Ask others, but you may not want to cut into the tank too much if you have rounded ends.







this would reduce the convection


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## sqwib

gyeakle said:


> Thanks sqwib,  what imhaving problems with  is how far to weld the bottom plate on 250 gal. propane tank and how big is the hole coming from the fire box. Your smoker looks real nice . wish i would have done a smaller one now. If anyone has this i will pay for it. Thanks [email protected]




I don't want to steer you wrong on attempting to answer this question, you will need to consult the pic calculator for ideas and hopefully someone who has built a 250 can help, post a pic that helps quite a bit.


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## gyeakle

If i did this right the pit cal. says fire to cook area would be 18.25sq inches how do i get that cut from a rounded propane tank (250 gal.) it seems like a very small hole for the heat from the f- box into the tank. and trying to get it for a rounded is make my head pound......lol  Do i need to walk away for awhile and come back to it ? The tank is 30" dime. by about 120" long....... Thanks


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## sqwib

gyeakle said:


> If i did this right the pit cal. says fire to cook area would be 18.25sq inches how do i get that cut from a rounded propane tank (250 gal.) it seems like a very small hole for the heat from the f- box into the tank. and trying to get it for a rounded is make my head pound......lol  Do i need to walk away for awhile and come back to it ? The tank is 30" dime. by about 120" long....... Thanks


Here is my Build



_*Frankensmoker*_

and here is a quote from the same problem I had as you do now (if I am reading the question right)

20" DIAMETER TANK 10" X 10" X 3.1358024 divided by 4 = 78.395, actually that does not apply to sectioning the tank in this matter, but thanks to a fellow builder and his CAD program he came up with my numbers actually being, 61.418, so I am good to go.
Below is an explanation of this from JIRodriguez at SMF.

Quote: Figured out where the difference was coming from the formula 3.14xRxR gives you the area of a wedge shaped opening exactly 1/4 of a 20" dia. pipe (like a pizza cut top to bottom & side to side).

But the shape profile is different when you split the pipe with parallel lines every 5". The two areas closest to the center point have a larger area than the two areas on the outside. So you end up with the two middle sections measuring 95.661 in. sq., and the two outside sections measuring 61.418 in. sq.

Hopefully the same Gentleman can help you out


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## wjordan52

ColeySmokinBBQ: Your excellent post still lives! I want to add my gratitude to all the others who have expressed theirs.

I bought a cheap Brinkman SFB years ago, and used it as-is for several years w/ decent results. Without going into a lot of boring detail, I left it behind and have now brought it back to be my 'one and only' smoker.

These days I'm not satisfied with decent results, but want to produce great quality food consistently. Your diagrams and explanations (along with the wealth of other info on this site) have greatly improved my understanding of heat/smoke dynamics in a horizontal unit, and will surely serve as a base for my modifications.

Hope you're well and happy,

Bill (AA4ZF)


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## daveomak

This thread needs to be rejuveniated... Thank you Coley for some exceptional explanations... RIP.....


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## fagesbp

Most informative thread I've seen. Thanks!


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## n2 bbq

DaveOmak said:


> This thread needs to be rejuveniated... Thank you Coley for some exceptional explanations... RIP.....


Wow just wow so much good info here in this thred. 

Hi Dave.  I just wanted to say it's guys like you that make this a great place to learn and linger in the smoke from.  You say RIP for Coley.  Bummer man, I'm sure it was a sad day for those closest to him.  Not to mention this and other places probably won't be 100% the same w/o him either.


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