# how much instacure to use



## dieterr

Hi,

I am new to this forum and this is my first post and question. I started to do some wet curing of pork shanks with Instacure #1, mostly for color and flavor. Yes, for preservation too, but mostly, what I will cure gets eaten pretty much right away, or I will vacuum seal it and freeze it. Before I did my first test, I did some research on the internet and read some posts in forums. One question I never found an answer to yet, is this. 

People will say how much Instacure#1 to use in relation to the weight of the meat. For an example: if I have 5 pound of meat, I learned to use about 6 gram of Instacure and about 100 grams or so of salt, plus 10 grams or so of sugar.  If I have I liter of water and use 6 grams of Instacure, along with the salt and sugar, and let it sit in the refrigerator for the required amount of time, then some of my Instacure#1 will migrate into the meat, while some will stay in the brine and will get dumped after the specified curing cycle/duration is completed.

Now, from what I read in some of the posts by mostly sausage makers, they put/mix the same amount of Instacure #1 direct into the same amount of meat as I am putting into my brine thus ending up with a much higher concentration inside the sausage mixture as I am getting in my wet brined pork shank.

My question is: which is correct, and should I be using more Instacure #1 in my brine than the sausage maker puts into the meat, because I dump a good portion of the Instacure with the brine?

Can anyone help me with this?

DieterR


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## daveomak

dieter, afternoon.....    WELCOME !!!    

When curing any food, whether it be dry rubbed or in a brine (equilibrium brine), to achieve 150 ish Ppm nitrite in the meat....

~1.1 grams cure #1 per pound or 0.25% by weight or 1 tsp per 5#'s will give you the ~150 ish Ppm nitrite...

When adding meat to a brine / cure solution, the weight of the liquid and the amount of liquid needs to be considered... 

From what I have read, when adding meat to a liquid, it is best to use 25-50% weight of the meat for the liquid...  There seems to be a discrepancy whether 25% or 50 % is preferred..    When I do a liquid cure / brine, I personally prefer the least amount of liquid and use a zip bag and turn and massage the bag daily for 7 days minimum per inch of thickness... 

Weigh the liquid and meat..  add the 2 weights and accordingly, add your salt (2%), sugar(1%),  and cure #1(0.25%), to the liquid and dissolve..   add the meat and refrigerate for the recommended time... (I prefer 2% salt and 1% sugar for starters)

Ppm is based on weight per weight...  thus, 800 grams of meat and 200 grams of liquid = 1000 grams...  adding 0.25% in cure = 2.5 grams of cure... 20 grams salt and 10 grams sugar...    make sense ??

If you have a roast, or similar, injecting works well...   weigh out proper amounts of cure, salt and sugar...  dissolve in liquid 10% weight of the meat...  Inject ALL the liquid at 1.5" intervals...  zip bag...   refer for 5-6 days....  it's cured....   If the meat has a bone, inject around the bone first to prevent bone sour...  In this particular case, the weight of the liquid does no enter the equation... All the chemicals are already inside the meat..  the extra liquid will mostly be evaporated...  If any liquid is left, it will be <10 % the weight of the meat and you are still good to go and within safe guidelines....


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## dieterr

Hi Dave

This was super nice of you to reply so quickly to my question(s) Your detailed feedback really shed all the light I needed on my questions and confusions about this new task which I am trying to learn, curing meat. It all started with something I wanted to do for years, curing meat, mainly pork. In Germany where I am from originally, we eat pork shanks cooked or baked in a variety of preparations. I never took the time to learn the curing process, which we call "poekeln" in German. Recently as I said, I started getting my feet wet just a little, but was not sure if what I was doing was "by the book", or safe. I noticed that my cured pork was a bit on the salty side, even after "freshening" it for over an hour in iced fresh water. So I figured I join a good forum and let the experienced people give me a hand.

I am new on this posting blogs etc. I still have to fill out my profile, but am confused how to do it. I will try again tomorrow.

There is a lot of information on the internet, but some of it appears to be what I call "fake info", or shall we call it not very precise at all.. I followed a recipe from the internet recently for curing meat, which suggested a way to high concentration of Instacure #1.To be safe, I dumped my meat and started over again.

Dave, I want to thank you for your very detailed reply, really appreciate your help. I feel better now and will start my next batch of pork shanks soon. I have some friends who asked me to make some roasted pork shanks as the serve at the Octoberfest in Munich. I am in the practicing mode now, don't want to invite anybody over until I am sure that  I know what I am doing, and can come up an almost perfect product.

Thanks again 

DieterR


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## daveomak

Dieter, morning.....  You are correct about "fake" recipes for curing...   I'm glad you took the time to investigate your concerns and especially happened upon this site....   There are some very fine folks, that post on this site, that have some excellent skills in curing and smoking meats etc....  

The owner of this forum, in years past, basically "mandated" USDA, FDA, FSIS rules and regulations be followed to insure "off base" recipes and techniques were "put aside" for the safety of the members on his forum...

I think it has worked out well for the members, as this forum "seems" to be the "go to forum" for food safety...

I'm thinking we will see you back on the forum in the near future...   Best of luck with the "perfect product"....  

Dave


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## dieterr

pork shank test  6  02 10 17  cr.jpg



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Hello Dave

I wonder if someone can help me with how to use liquid smoke for my application?

Last week you helped me with information about correct amounts of ingredients in a curing solution for meats. I cured a pork shank and processed it further by pressure cooking and roasting it. It came out perfect.

Now I would like to add a faint aroma, or flavor of smoke to the meat but do not want to go through the smoking process, mainly because a short smoking cycle would only apply the flavor to the e outside of the meat. Since we consume what I make pretty much as it is done, there is no time for the smoke to penetrate into the meat.

So I started thinking about liquid smoke. Can I just add a small amount to my curing liquid and let the smoke flavor penetrate along with the cure and salt, etc.?

I wonder if there would be any chemical interaction with the Instacure which could cause any problems in function or flavor, etc.?

Does anyone have any experience with this? How much liquid smoke should, can I use for a very faint flavor?

DieterR


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## chef jimmyj

You can brush it on before finishing in the oven. The flavor will be light and on the surface only but the aroma will be with you for each bite...JJ


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## daveomak

That's a beautiful pork shank...    wish I could get shanks that are like that......

JJ has you covered on the brushing technique..  you could do that before the pressure cooker step...  it might work perfect...  I would let the meat cool down slowly in the pressure cooker to suck up any flavors in the water....

Anyway, if you chose the injection technique for processing you next shank, you could add 1 or 2 or three DROPS of liquid smoke to the injection solution...    liquid smoke, in my opinion, is strong and can be off-putting in the flavor department if too much is added...  start slow and build up, depending on taste .....

My liquid smoke ingredients are.... water, natural smoke flavor, vinegar, molasses, and caramel color....    It should integrate perfect into your liquid injection so it will be distributed evenly throughout  the meat....   If needed, stir the injection liquid every time you suck some up to inject to insure it is dispersed evenly.....

DO NOT mix this stuff in advance on the injection....  the vinegar / and acids can and will screw up the cure... (from what I have read)  It makes the cure work really fast...  don't know how or why...  I guess it's like adding ascorbate or erythorbate to speed stuff up if you are a commercial process....  BUT, all things considered, the amount you will be adding should have little to no effect on the product...

*Ascorbate is added at 0.4 - 0.6 g per kilogram of total mass, ascorbate or erythorbate are added at 0.5 - 0.7 g per kilogram of total mass. Curing accelerators are of little use in air dried products as by increasing nitrite reaction they deplete its amount. As a result less nitrite is available for long time curing.*


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## dieterr

Hi JJ, Thanks for your info. That sounds simple enough, I will give it a try. Any idea or suggestion on how many drops into how much liquid to make a brush-on liquid? I could use the broth from cooking the meat in the P-cooker.

Thanks again

DieterR


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## dieterr

Hi Dave

I thank you for your suggestion. I will try brushing it on as JJ is saying first, because I have a couple of shanks in the brine to come out on Monday.

After that, I will try what you are suggesting. When I make my curing solution for about 4-5 pound of meat (shank), I use 1 liter of water and then the formula you sent me, the cure, salt, and sugar as you suggested. I know that is more then what you suggested, but it works out for me I a 1 gal zip-lock bag. When I do more meat I go into a lager container of course.

So, using 1 liter of water, how many drops of liquid smoke is your best guess. I always take some of that solution and inject it all over, especially into the thicker parts.

Thanks again for helping

DieterR


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## chef jimmyj

dieterR said:


> Hi JJ, Thanks for your info. That sounds simple enough, I will give it a try. Any idea or suggestion on how many drops into how much liquid to make a brush-on liquid? I could use the broth from cooking the meat in the P-cooker.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> DieterR


Hard to say how much. Some are stronger than others. The one I currently have I add 15ml per liter of liquid to be used as a sauce poured over the meat.. I would suggest taking 250ml of your cooker liquid and add liquid smoke until it taste good to you. You can brush it on and roast or even serve the smokey braising liquid Au Jus style at the table for guests to add...I studied with a German Chef that made great Eisbein!...JJ


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## dieterr

Hi JJ

Funny you brought up eisbein. I kind of grew up with it; My mom used to make it now and then. Now many years later, and after I got into the curing of meat "territory", I gave it a try a couple weeks ago. It came out amazingly delicious, but my kids and grand kids thought it is ugly and could make them vomit. Being into pork curing, I also made  some pigs feet (spitzbeine)  They are even uglier my family thinks. I think they are melt in your mouth delicious. In Berlin, where I grew up, we eat eisbein with boiled potatoes, sauerkraut and a yellow pea puree.  Amazing how growing up with something changes everything.

I am glad that I am learning the curing process!

Thanks for helping.

Check out the pictures.

DieterR













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Eisbein 1 cr.jpg



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## chef jimmyj

That Eisbein is beautiful! How about adding a separate thread with the recipe...JJ


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## dieterr

Mornin again

JJ, I will send the recipe(s)....................actually, there are 3 separate recipes, eisbein, yellow peas puree and sauerkraut. Do you think all 3, to make the meal would be good to list? or just how to prepare the eisbein?

It will take me a day or so, have 6 people coming over for schnitzel.

Let me know if you think I should send all three

DieterR


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## crankybuzzard

dieterR said:


> Mornin again
> 
> JJ, I will send the recipe(s)....................actually, there are 3 separate recipes, eisbein, yellow peas puree and sauerkraut. Do you think all 3, to make the meal would be good to list? or just how to prepare the eisbein?
> 
> It will take me a day or so, have 6 people coming over for schnitzel.
> 
> Let me know if you think I should send all three
> 
> DieterR



I'm late, and you turned out some very nice looking meats!

I'd say post the recipe for all 3 in a new thread.  I'll make that meal for my neighbors that are from Germany!


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## dieterr

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Hi Charly, just saw your note...................I will need a couple of days to put it together, some of it is in German which I will have to translate. Look for the recipes soon.

Just so you do not starve and get "Chranky" here is another picture.....LOL

DieterR


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## crankybuzzard

dieterR said:


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> Hi Charly, just saw your note...................I will need a couple of days to put it together, some of it is in German which I will have to translate. Look for the recipes soon.
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> Just so you do not starve and get "Chranky" here is another picture.....LOL
> 
> DieterR



Thanks!

I'm in no hurry, it would be next weekend before I could even begin the process.  

As for translation, when my neighbor and I share recipes, she sometimes misses a thing or 2 and I get some of it in German.  Her obatzter recipe is a perfect example of that.  Not all ingredients translate the same.  I use paprika, she uses sweet pepper powder.  Took us a few to figure that one out!  :biggrin:


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## chef jimmyj

dieterR said:


> Mornin again
> 
> JJ, I will send the recipe(s)....................actually, there are 3 separate recipes, eisbein, yellow peas puree and sauerkraut. Do you think all 3, to make the meal would be good to list? or just how to prepare the eisbein?
> 
> It will take me a day or so, have 6 people coming over for schnitzel.
> 
> Let me know if you think I should send all three
> 
> DieterR



Absolutely include all three. Classic combinations, like that, should be served together. Thank you...JJ


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## dieterr

Hii JJ, give me a couple of days...............working on it right now, just got done feeding 6 people with Schnitzel.

DieterR


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## dieterr

Hi JJ

I have the recipes ready to post . The part about curing of the meat, I suggest to look up the post from Dave Omak, which I thought was "right on" It can be found in the curing section under "How much Instacure to use"

Is it OK to do that?

Below I pasted the 3 recipes, I hope it is not too long-winded. I will post a couple of pictures in a different post, am afraid that if I do it now, it will mess up the formatting.

DieterR

 *Brine for curing the pork shank (Eisbein):*

I suggest to use the formula and the instructions which Dave Omak posted in the forum in response to my question. “How much Instacure#1 to use for curing meat” This is an excellent post and is easy to understand and to follow.

Make sure the curing takes place in a refrigerator at just over freezing point, or around 34° F. I like to keep the meat cold.

Once the meat went through the curing time, it is ready to be cooked. I prefer to freshen the meat in cold water for 1-2 hours to remove some of the salt. (Optional)

You can cook the “Eisbein” in a regular pot, I prefer to use a pressure cooker which cuts the time in about half.

Depending what size pot you use and how much meat you cook at a time you may need varying amount of cooking liquid. In my pressure cooker I make sure that the meat is fully covered with liquid, plus some for evaporation during the cooking cycle. Keeping the meat covered allows the flavors to be soaked up in the whole chunk of meat.

 Most people just use water and add the ingredients which I will list below. I use half low sodium chicken broth and half water. I just feel that the chicken broth adds a little flavor.........your choice.

*Eisbein*

"Eisbein" is a salt-cured pig knuckle that is simmered for several hours in broth and then served with sauerkraut and pureed peas and boiled potatoes. It is a specialty in Berlin and is a favorite for tourists in restaurants. Because it is simmered, it is not crispy on the outside. Eisbein can be made at home with simple ingredients and great results.

Eisbein can also be prepared from none cured pork shank using the same recipe and procedure. A good spicy mustard goes good with the uncured style. I like it both ways, but the curing of the meat adds another level of flavor to the meat.

Pork shank is the part of the leg right under the picnic roast, can be from the front or hind leg of the pork. An Eisbein is normally a slice of the leg about 2 ½” thick. You can ask the butcher to cut up a shank, or you can cook the whole shank. Your choice….

You can cook the Eisbein, which is what I am describing here, or you can add another process and roast the cooked Eisbein or shank in the oven, very delicious also. For now let’s stay just with the cooked version and the side dishes…..boiled potatoes, sauerkraut and yellow peas puree.

Brine for curing the pork shank (eisbein):

I suggest to use the formula and the instructions which Dave Omak posted in the forum in response to my question. “How much Instacure#1 to use for curing meat” This is an excellent post and easy to understand and follow.

Make sure the curing takes place in a refrigerator at just over freezing point, or around 34° F. I like to keep the meat cold.

Once the meat went through the curing time, it is ready to be cooked. I prefer to freshen the meat in cold water for 1-2 hours to remove some of the salt.

You can cook the “Eisbein” in a regular pot, I prefer to use a pressure cooker which cuts the time in about half.

Depending what size pot you use and how much meat you cook at a time you may need varying amounts of cooking liquid. In my pressure cooker I make sure that the meat is fully covered with liquid, plus some for evaporation during the cooking cycle. This way the meat can absorb all the flavors from the ingredients

 Most people just use water and add the ingredients which I will list below. I use half low sodium chicken broth and half water. I just feel that the chicken broth adds a little to the flavor………your choice

Ingredients list for cooking solution:

 3-4 liters of water or chicken broth, or mixed for about 3 1/2- 4 1/2 pounds of pork shank

1 very large onion, or two medium cut up into chunks

10-15 cloves of garlic, chopped or sliced

4-6 bay leafs

3-4 cloves

1 ½ tsp. juniper berries crushed

1 1/2 tsp. of caraway seeds

1 tsp. of peppercorns crushed

Do not add any salt as the cured meat will give up plenty of salt during cooking.

Options:

Some people add a little sugar, others add some carrots, or celery sticks

Some others add Allspice, but I have not tried that……….too many directions for my taste.

Process:

Place the meat into the pot or pressure cooker. I place mine on a trivet or something to keep it off the bottom.

Add all ingredients

Put the liquid to your pot making sure the meat is well covered, plus some for evaporation during cooking.

Turn on your heat and wait for the pressure to build and the bobber to start bobbing.

Write down the start time and let it cook for 80-90 minutes, depending on the size and thickness of the meat (I normally cook about 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 pounds. Once the time is reached, I let the pressure cooker cool down about 10-15 minutes before I open the lid.

That is all there is to it, unless you want to go on and make it a roasted crispy shank, where the skin get deliciously crispy, but that is for another day.

You can prepare the side dishes, Sauerkraut and Yellow Peas Puree ahead of time as they can always be reheated again.

Try to serve some of the cooking broth in a side dish, or in a cup.

Now on to the Sauerkraut Recipe and the Pea Puree

*Sauerkraut (a must with Eisbein)*

This is the way my mother made it. We still make it the same way. Many people wonder if they should try Sauerkraut, because they might have tried it before, but straight out of the can. This recipe is different, once they try this, they ask for the recipe. It is very easy to make.

*Ingredients:*

1   32oz. jar of deli (German or Polish) sauerkraut, use it as is. Many markets carry it these days. If using American sauerkraut, dump all water and rinse, squeeze out the water. German or Polish sauerkraut does not need rinsing, it is milder. For cooking later, you can add some water, just enough liquid for simmering, but not to make it soupy.

1 Large onion diced, about ¾” pieces

Some more onion to sauté with the bacon, chopped somewhat fine

4 strips of bacon cut to about ¾’ pieces

1 medium to large size apple, peeled and cut into 6 pieces, or equivalent amount of applesauce (about 1 cup)

1 tsp of caraway seeds put directly into the pot

Put the next 3 ingredients into a cheese cloth packet for easy removal after cooking the kraut

5 Juniper berries

6 pepper corns

1 bay leaf

*Optional:*

½ -1 glass of white wine

A little sugar, but not so much as to not make the sauerkraut sweet, just enough to overcome the sourness a little, perhaps ¼- ½ tsp.

*Process:*

Fry the bacon, get rid of grease, add some chopped onions and sauté together, until golden, not brown, add all other ingredients from above and mix well with sauerkraut.

Bring to a slow boil and simmer for about 20 minutes or until desired doneness reached. Do not overcook and end up with a soup. The sauerkraut still has to have a texture to it (bite)

Serve it along with Eisbein as a side dish, it also goes good with many other dishes, like any smoked pork, ribs, bratwurst and the likes. Also, you can pour some of the tasty juice on your plate and mash it with the potatoes. Enjoy

*Yellow Pea puree *(a must as a side dish with Eisbein)

Ingredients:


*250 g*

Yellow split peas, if hard to find, could use green peas instead, but it will not taste as the yellow peas do.

*1 *

Medium onion,

*2 *

Garlic cloves

*2 twigs*

Marjoram, or could substitute some oregano powder, or fresh twigs, be careful as it has a strong taste

*2               *

bayleafs

*2 Tbsp.*

Olive oil

*1 1/2 Tbsp. *

Lemon juice

*4 Tbsp.*

Whipping crèam (not whipped)

Wash the peas in cold water, drain and place into a pot, cover with water, and bring to a boil. If there is foam, remove it. Add the onion, garlic, marjoram and bay leafs. Let everything boil for about an hour or until the peas are really soft. (You may want to use a simmer plate under the pot to prevent burning the peas to the bottom.)

Remove the onion, garlic, Bay leafs and Marjoram twigs. Dump any liquid (water) left in the pot and puree the peas as you add the whipping crèam and olive oil. In case the peas are kind of soupy, stir in some thickening powder. Add salt, pepper (white if you have it) and lemon juice to taste.

Some people top the puree with some golden sautéed onion rings (optional)


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## dieterr

Hi Charly

Just wanted to let you know that I posted those 3 recipes for Eisbein, take a look

DieterR


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## chef jimmyj

The Eisbein sounds very similar to what I have had, so I am sure equally delicious. I want to try the other recipes as being Polish I make them differently. All went on my to do list. Thanks...JJ


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