# Why won’t my meat cure?



## Jabiru (Nov 26, 2019)

This is driving me crazy. Help, I cannot get a cure in center. I am doing loins mainly.  5 batches so far, none fully cured in centre.

I just put a boned leg in Pops brine for Christmas and thought I would leave it for 22 days. Now I’m freaking out it won’t cure through in time.

I follow 

 pops6927
 Wet Brine and 

 disco
 Dry Brine to the letter. Leave the loins 16 days in a fridge which reads 4-6 c.

I bought this cure https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/264333913681 and wondering if i can blame that 

Just turned fridge up a bit.

Am I running to short a period? Do I need to inject?


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## DanMcG (Nov 26, 2019)

I don't see any ingredients list on the package? 
You temps are good.  How large of a piece of meat is it. weight and diameter?


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## sawhorseray (Nov 26, 2019)

Jabiru said:


> Am I running to short a period? Do I need to inject?



I always inject loins that are going to be smoked into Canadian bacon, hams too, get that needle close to the bone. I usually try to cure right at 38º, pork loins take about six days when injected. RAY


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## Steve H (Nov 26, 2019)

Thicker cuts should be injected. I've done pork loins in 14 days with them being wet brined and injecting them. You can still inject the leg you put in the brine.


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## fivetricks (Nov 26, 2019)

Make sure that your cure #1 contains 6.25% sodium nitrite. If it doesn't, then the recipes you are using won't be accurate.

Also, def inject larger cuts like loins, butts, etc.


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Jabiru, how do you know it is not cured?..I mean, cure dispersion is invisible, you can't see it or make visual difference between cured and uncured portions... only sign that curing is in progress is meat firmness and moisture loss...
about 80% of cure is dispersed trough meat thickness in first couple of days... rest of it is  dry or wet equalization, depending on nature of the cure you use... bottom line is: your meat will cure and it will not go bad even if you double curing time as long as you use proper cure to meat ratio... you doing everything right, just give it ample time to cure...


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## pops6927 (Nov 26, 2019)

if it is over 2" thick, then inject so it cures from the outside in as well as the inside out.


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## fivetricks (Nov 26, 2019)

Stupid autocorrect. Thanks to whomever the moderator was that corrected my post.


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver pic that SteveH posted is aging progress... there is diference between curing and aging... color variation on Bearcarver pic is due moisture loss during aging progress...
There is no colour variation during curing progress except slight color difference on meat surface...


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## Steve H (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> Bearcarver pic that SteveH posted is aging progress... there is diference between curing and aging... color variation on Bearcarver pic is due moisture loss during aging progress...
> There is no colour variation during curing progress except slight color difference on meat surface...








						Dried Beef  (Cured & Smoked)
					

Dried Beef (cured & smoked)   I got a Hot Tip about Eye Rounds being on sale for $1.99. That's the first time I saw it that cheap since more than 4 years ago!!!  The first time I used Eye Rounds for Dried Beef, I injected cure because they were over 3" thick: Link...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				




My bad.


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

it is terminology... curing is chemical process... aging is physical process... generally, most of us calls curing and aging by common name curing.... difference comes to highlight only if and when we get in to details....


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## chopsaw (Nov 26, 2019)

danmcg said:


> I don't see any ingredients list on the package?


I went and looked . Ended up on an EBay page for Good stuff mate . No ingredient list there either . 
How can you use it correctly if you don't know what's in the bag ?


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## zwiller (Nov 26, 2019)

I am under the impression that much more salt is used when traditional dry curing large bone in hams.  This large amount of salt assists the cure penetration and drives the cure in deeper.  That said, add me to the others, inject.   When I first started injecting it felt like I was cheating or something but not anymore and is second nature.   Faster, accurate, and consistent results.  I am with 

 Steve H
, draw some of Pops Brine into a syringe and inject, paying special attention to the bone area as 

 sawhorseray
 said.


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

Well, I went and looked....
It says prauge pink curing salt, but also uses the word 'organic'. That's confusing because most organic curing salt has quite a bit of sodium nitrate (mostly from celery juice) instead of sodium nitrite. But, it also uses the name prauge powder, which is defined as containing 6.25% sodium *nitrite* and 93.75% sodium chloride...
but the concentration is not on the labeling of the product, like mentioned.
Were it me, I'd buy a different curing salt to use; one that has the concentration on it so you know what you are getting.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> Jabiru, *how do you know it is not cured?..I mean, cure dispersion is invisible, you can't see it or make visual difference between cured and uncured portions... only sign that curing is in progress is meat firmness and moisture loss...*
> about 80% of cure is dispersed trough meat thickness in first couple of days... rest of it is  dry or wet equalization, depending on nature of the cure you use... bottom line is: your meat will cure and it will not go bad even if you double curing time as long as you use proper cure to meat ratio... you doing everything right, just give it ample time to cure...




You can tell if the cure got to center by the color.
These 3 pieces are not cured in the center. Notice the difference in color.






BTW: These were not mine---I found the pics elsewhere, and saved them for examples.

Bear


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> You can tell if the cure got to center by the color.
> These 3 pieces are not cured in the center. Notice the difference in color.
> View attachment 412786
> 
> ...


Seems that there is confusion between curing and aging... from the moment animal is cut, meat starts aging... it ages by drying processes (moisture loss)...
curing is chemical processes... curing ( cure #1 or #2 ) doesn't color or discolor meat.... aging does colour or discolour meat...  your posted picture shows aging process ( moisture loss)... it doesn't show how far salt and nitrite penetrated...


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> Seems that there is confusion between curing and aging... from the moment animal is cut, meat starts aging... it ages by drying processes (moisture loss)...
> curing is chemical processes... curing ( cure #1 or #2 ) doesn't color or discolor meat.... aging does colour or discolour meat...  your posted picture shows aging process ( moisture loss)... it doesn't show how far salt and nitrite penetrated...


dernektambura, The most recent pics. posted by Bear above I believe are of cooked canadian bacon or ham and you can see a grey circle in the center from the uncured meat where the cure did not make it all the way through to the center. 
You are correct in that you can't see the cure in RAW meat or how far it has traveled, but once a piece has been fried, you will see the color change....
Hope this clears up any confusions....


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> Seems that there is confusion between curing and aging... from the moment animal is cut, meat starts aging... it ages by drying processes (moisture loss)...
> curing is chemical processes... curing ( cure #1 or #2 ) doesn't color or discolor meat.... aging does colour or discolour meat...  your posted picture shows aging process ( moisture loss)... it doesn't show how far salt and nitrite penetrated...




Sorry, but I'm not talking about "Aging".
The pictures I showed are showing that the Center (Gray) areas didn't get the cure that far in, like the outer Pink Meat shows. You're talking exactly opposite of what's real. Cure turns meat a reddish pink, and it happens during curing, not during cooking, like was said in Post #18.
That is why I tell people to check to make sure the cure got to center, by cutting into the meat & looking at the color, After curing, but before they smoke it.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> dernektambura, The most recent pics. posted by Bear above I believe are of cooked canadian bacon or ham and you can see a grey circle in the center from the uncured meat where the cure did not make it all the way through to the center.
> *You are correct in that you can't see the cure in RAW meat or how far it has traveled, but once a piece has been fried, you will see the color change....
> Hope this clears up any confusions....*




How can you clear confusion with wrong info.
You can see what's cured & what's not cured by cutting it open after curing---BEFORE SMOKING !  THat's why we check it after curing, but before smoking!!!
If it doesn't get to the center, the center will not be Pink---It will be Gray.

Bear


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## Steve H (Nov 26, 2019)

I thought I was right with this as well. I was saying the same thing. But deleted my post incase I was wrong.


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> Sorry, but I'm not talking about "Aging".
> The pictures I showed are showing that the Center (Gray) areas didn't get the cure that far in, like the outer Pink Meat shows. You're talking exactly opposite of what's real.
> Bear


Good luck to check if whole pork hind leg is cured in center by cutting it in half and gluing it back together to make prochiutto.... sir... if your reasoning is right, then center of the cut should be dark red (meat colour) not gray.... meat changes property from outside in, not from inside out....
I give up...lol...


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> Good luck to check if whole pork hind leg is cured in center by cutting it in half and gluing it back together to make prochiutto.... sir... if your reasoning is right, then center of the cut should be dark red (meat colour) not gray.... meat changes property from outside in, not from inside out....
> I give up...lol...




You won't be LOL'ing, once a hundred guys agree with me.
Obviously you don't check center of a Leg, but I've been checking center of Dried Beef & Bacons for 9 years, and teaching others the same. It is always Pink all the way through if it's cured properly & Gray in the center if it isn't cured all the way.
Just the Facts Ma'm.

Bear


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> You won't be LOL'ing, once a hundred guys agree with me.
> Obviously you don't check center of a Leg, but I've been checking center of Dried Beef & Bacons for 9 years, and teaching others the same. It is always Pink all the way through if it's cured properly & Gray in the center if it isn't cured all the way.
> Just the Facts Ma'm.
> 
> Bear


Sooo, Ma'm... all meat (domestic animals are light red coloured meat) and (wild game are dark red meat) once you done curing will turn PINK,?,!
You cure nice peace of pork loin and you post it here as venison or bison pork loin?   Like: trust me Ma'm...its pink, its venison loin...I kill that deer last week.... lol....c'mon man...


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

You know I cruise around here, helping people if I can. If I don't know the answer, I leave it for others. In this case it's so simple, and I can't get you to understand, in fact you even laugh at me while I'm trying to help you.
I'll try again---Let's stick with Bacons (Belly, CB, and BBB):
#1 After you pull the meat out of cure, it's good to cut into it. I recommend cutting into the thickest spot of the biggest piece. Take a slice or 2 to do a Fry Test. While you have it opened, observe the color of the cut side. If it's pink all the way through it is completely cured. If it's gray in the center it didn't get cured all the way to center. I would recommend you smoke that hot & fast. Now give it a Fry in the pan & taste it. If it's too salty, you should soak it in cold water for an hour or two. None of this has anything to do with aging.

Bear


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

I didn't ask for help...its somebody else who started this this topic....how did you come to the point to figure that I need help? 
Anyhow... frying to check if its cured doesnt make sense to me... why? cuz its gona be hard to order medium rare steak for example... 
with all due respect I will respectfully stop sharing  my knowledge at this point.... hat off to your 9 years of experience...


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I didn't ask for help...its somebody else who started this this topic....how did you come to the point to figure that I need help?
> Anyhow... frying to check if its cured doesnt make sense to me... why? cuz its gona be hard to order medium rare steak for example...
> with all due respect I will respectfully stop sharing  my knowledge at this point.... hat off to your 9 years of experience...




I started on this thread when I saw you giving wrong information when you told somebody you can't see when meat is cured.  I try to point out things like that being wrong to keep mostly Newbies from getting confused. Nothing wrong with sharing your knowledge, but do like I do, If I'm not sure I let somebody who is sure, answer the question.
I rarely get complaints---Usually Thank Yous.
And this might have been the first time anybody ever laughed at me while I'm trying to help him.

Bear


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> How can you clear confusion with wrong info.
> You can see what's cured & what's not cured by cutting it open after curing---BEFORE SMOKING !  THat's why we check it after curing, but before smoking!!!
> If it doesn't get to the center, the center will not be Pink---It will be Gray.
> 
> Bear


Bear, reread my post carefully. I said you have to fry it and yes, the pink will appear. That is the reason for the fry test.


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

you just keep lecturing... can you support or validate your " curing doneness" by any scientific testing done by reputable site that doesnt include frying pan?.... something that supports your pink colouring across the entire meat section? if you can I will become believer and do my best to learn at least to match up your wisdom...


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> Bear, reread my post carefully. I said you have to fry it and yes, the pink will appear. That is the reason for the fry test.




Nice Guess.
No the Fry test is to check for too much salt.
Cutting it open to see the color is to check for cure to center. If it isn't cured to center the color will be Gray in the center, without frying it.
I told you that earlier---Was I lying?

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> you just keep lecturing... can you support or validate your " curing doneness" by any scientific testing done by reputable site that doesnt include frying pan?.... something that supports your pink colouring across the entire meat section? if you can I will become believer and do my best to learn at least to match up your wisdom...




Cured & Smoked Products (Step by Steps):
Bacon (Extra Smoky)
Bacon-On-A-Stick
Buckboard Bacon and Pulled Cured Boston Butt Ham
Buckboard Bacon (Step by Step) Oct 10, 2017
Buckboard Bacon (Step by Step) Nov 4, 2018
*New------Canadian Bacon

BTW: Like I told your Buddy, The frying pan isn't needed to check for Proper Curing. The frying pan is to quick check the salt flavor.
A knife is needed to check the internal color right after curing.

Bear


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> No the Fry test is to check for too much salt.
> Cutting it open to see the color is to check for cure to center. If it isn't cured to center the color will be Gray in the center, without frying it.
> I told you that earlier---Was I lying?
> 
> Bear


Sodium nitrite IS a salt.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> Sodium nitrite IS a salt.



Excuse me---I should have said "The Fry test is to check for too much salt "Flavor", but it still has nothing to do with whether or not it's cured to center.

Bear


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> Excuse me---I should have said "The Fry test is to check for too much salt "Flavor", but it still has nothing to do with whether or not it's cured to center.
> 
> Bear


If it's grey, it ain't cured in the center Bear.....


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> If it's grey, it ain't cured in the center Bear.....





Yeahhhhhhhh---I knew you could do it!!
Grey in the center before or after frying is not cured in the center.
Congrats!

Bear


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

I've never in my life seen raw pork that was what I would call 'grey'.....ever.....

All the grey pork I've seen has been from being cooked.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> I've never in my life seen raw pork that was what I would call 'grey'.....ever.....
> 
> All the grey pork I've seen has been from being cooked.




That would be because you apparently never saw Pork that wasn't cured right, after curing, but before cooking. This isn't rocket science. I haven't seen it either, in person, because I never had it happen to me, but I've seen it in pictures, from people who were worried about it & asked me. That's one of the Perks I get from helping others. I get to see their pictures.

Bear


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## chopsaw (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> That would be because you apparently never saw Pork that wasn't cured right, after curing, but before cooking. This isn't rocket science. I haven't seen it either, in person, because I never had it happen to me .


That is a great point .


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bear.... I have nothing but utmost respect for your experience and expertise but this time you're wrong...
I asked you to support your curing doneness by reputable site and scientific supported FACTS....
You gave me hit and mis answer... 
Yes Smoking meat forums is reputable site but you miss calling yourself scientists by showing me your own 5 "How to" posts.
Your curing process is based on observations not on facts... Yes, you're doing everything right way, as most of us do but your knowledge is limited by observation. 
Scientific fact is:
it is not possible to visually check cure doneness... it is not possible to check cure doneness by processing it  thermally (here comes your frying pan part that doesn't make sense)... it is not possible to check cure dispersion without taking a samples and looking under the microscope ( this is PPM, parts per million).
That is why the best recommendation is to keep cured meat extra long period of time above recommended... why? To make sure becouse we dont have frikin' microscope to check PPM... 
So, please, even tho your experience may be at good level don't give out recommendations or advices based on your own observations... let facts rule...


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> That would be because you apparently never saw Pork that wasn't cured right, after curing, but before cooking. This isn't rocket science. I haven't seen it either, in person, because I never had it happen to me, but I've seen it in pictures, from people who were worried about it & asked me. That's one of the Perks I get from helping others. I get to see their pictures.
> 
> Bear


and one more thing... How can you give advices based on pictures other people show to you if it never happen to you, and you never seen it before... it means you giving advice by hearth and it is dangerous thing to do...  you may be wrong cuz picture doesnt tells you everything...


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> Bear.... I have nothing but utmost respect for your experience and expertise but this time you're wrong...
> I asked you to support your curing doneness by reputable site and scientific supported FACTS....
> You gave me hit and mis answer...
> Yes Smoking meat forums is reputable site but you miss calling yourself scientists by showing me your own 5 "How to" posts.
> ...




I can't tell the percentage of cure by naked eye, and I don't care, but I can tell if it's cured enough by the color.
Most people don't even check, but most people who learned from me check it the way I do.
You don't have to---That's up to you, but when you tell people they can't tell if the cure got to center by looking at the color, you're wrong, and hopefully there will be somebody there to correct that, before other people get it wrong too.

Every one of my Step by Steps in the curing section has that explained and over 9 years nobody has taken exception to it until You today. Hopefully somebody else can enlighten you. I give up.
I help people who want to be helped & learn what I have learned, and what hundreds of other guys on this forum have learned.

I'm done trying to help you. Somebody else please take over.

Bear


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

*Correction/clarification
 I have seen grey raw meat before, but it is always on the surface from protein oxidation, like that which happens when a package of ground meat sits in the grocer freezer for too long.


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> I can't tell the percentage of cure by naked eye, and I don't care, but I can tell if it's cured enough by the color.
> Most people don't even check, but most people who learned from me check it the way I do.
> You don't have to---That's up to you, but when you tell people they can't tell if the cure got to center by looking at the color, you're wrong, and hopefully there will be somebody there to correct that, before other people get it wrong too.
> 
> ...


Bear, I meant no disrespect to you... as I said I do have utmost respect for your knowledge...
All I am saying is: my observations may not reflect scientific facts proved under controlled lab environment... I apologize if sounded disrespectful to all hard work you've done to bring our hobby to enjoyable level...


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## Bearcarver (Nov 26, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> and one more thing... How can you give advices based on pictures other people show to you if it never happen to you, and you never seen it before... it means you giving advice by hart and it is dangerous thing to do...  you may be wrong cuz picture doesnt tells you everything...




I can see enough in a picture to see if the perimeter is Pink & the center is Grey.
I was done with you, but who in hell do you think you are telling me I'm doing something dangerous. I've been helping others for many years, and haven't had any complaints.
Instead of talking stupid, hundreds of other guys are here to learn and appreciate it.

The only reason they haven't chimed in is they figure I can handle it, and they don't want to get involved with you & get in trouble. If it was a Toss-up, I'd have quit a long time ago, but it's not, and now you're talking about me hurting others. I'm pretty sick of you. I'm done with you again.


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> I can see enough in a picture to see if the perimeter is Pink & the center is Grey.
> I was done with you, but who in hell do you think you are telling me I'm doing something dangerous. I've been helping others for many years, and haven't had any complaints.
> Instead of talking stupid, hundreds of other guys are here to learn and appreciate it.
> 
> The only reason they haven't chimed in is they figure I can handle it, and they don't want to get involved with you & get in trouble. If it was a Toss-up, I'd have quit a long time ago, but it's not, and now you're talking about me hurting others. I'm pretty sick of you. I'm done with you again.


Bear.... still, after all what you said to me, I do like you... why? cuz you're my big brother, just over the border from Canada and without you Russians would take us over... I am not done with you... why should I... I am sure there is a lot of other stuff you know and I don't... This is no competition... I read most of your posts... why? cuz I want to pick my brain... I do this stuff since age of 5 and my grandpa was strict... either you learn or you get your as wooped... lol... thanks to Google and late technology I could check all of grandpa advices and let me tell'ya...  I've gotten ass woopin' in the past for no reason. God have mercy on my grandpa soul, cuz he wasn't scientist and his curing process doesn't have nothing to do with science...  still, in this age of technology and at age of 57  I have hard time to contradict old times..... Watching from above, my grandpa may as well woop my as in sleep for not following sacred spell....


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 26, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> How can you clear confusion with wrong info.
> You can see what's cured & what's not cured by cutting it open after curing---BEFORE SMOKING !  THat's why we check it after curing, but before smoking!!!
> *If it doesn't get to the center, the center will not be Pink---It will be Gray.*
> 
> Bear



ENOUGH ARGUING!!!!

From the USDA...









						"Danger Zone" (40 °F - 140 °F) | Food Safety and Inspection Service
					






					www.fsis.usda.gov
				




*10. What causes grayish or green color on cured meats?*
Exposure to light and oxygen causes oxidation to take place, which causes the breaking down of color pigments formed during the curing process. Chemicals in the cure and oxygen, as well as energy from ultraviolet and visible light, contribute to both the chemical breakdown and microbial spoilage of the product. Cure, such as nitrite, chemically changes the color of muscle. Curing solutions are colored in order to distinguish them from other ingredients (such as sugar or salt) used in fresh and cured meat products. *For example, cured raw pork is gray, but cured cooked pork (e.g., ham) is light pink.

The Gray color quickly turns Red as the now exposed Myoglobin absorbs Oxygen. This Chemical reaction happens quickly and the Gray color can easily be missed. This is why there is an argument and misunderstanding Here. If you are not Specifically looking for Gray, you may not see it by the time the meat turns Red...JJ *


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> ENOUGH ARGUING!!!!
> 
> From the USDA...
> 
> ...


thank you... it would be a much easier if I wasn't color blind...! lol... just kidding jimmyj... at the end of the day we all learn something new and it is all good!


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 26, 2019)

You are welcome. Sorry I didn't get to this LIVELY party before it got where it went. I can understand both sides. 
The very short lived Gray interior is easy to miss as the formation of Oxymyoglobin, turning Red,  happens fast. There are other factors that effect meat color and color change but that could end up complicating the situation. 
While Debate and Disagreement is fine, keeping even tempers and not getting Disrespectful, keeps SMF a Friendly site where no one has to fear ridicule asking a question or posting an answer...JJ


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> You are welcome. Sorry I didn't get to this LIVELY party before it got where it went. I can understand both sides.
> The very short lived Gray interior is easy to miss as the formation of Oxymyoglobin, turning Red,  happens fast. There are other factors that effect meat color and color change but that could end up complicating the situation.
> While Debate and Disagreement is fine, keeping even tempers and not getting Disrespectful, keeps SMF a Friendly site where no one has to fear ridicule asking a question or posting an answer...JJ


Jabiru.... watch how you formulate your next question for help... lts hard to get same weed quality across the US / CANADA border to stay on same page with all this trade war going on... lol... 
sorry, I couldn't miss this one... lol...


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 26, 2019)

Easy there Sir. THEY are watching. Shhhhhhh...JJ


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## dernektambura (Nov 26, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> Easy there Sir. THEY are watching. Shhhhhhh...JJ


lol...


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

Thank you Chef jimmyj for the great clarification. As with most disagreements, both parties were talking past each other....


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## chopsaw (Nov 26, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> Thank you Chef jimmyj for the great clarification. As with most disagreements, both parties were talking past each other....


Thanks for clearing that up . Go wipe your nose off .


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## Jabiru (Nov 26, 2019)

Holy smokes!

Thank you all for the help. My cured meat is always Grey in the centre like the pictures 

 Bearcarver
 posted.  But when I fry my bacon it tastes like bacon.. But it is definitely not cured through.

From the Knowledge provided in this thread it looks like I will have to:
1. Start injecting .
2. Buy a better cure with the Ingredients listed.

The loins are always quite large about 2kg and about 3" thick. The Leg I am doing now is about 4" thick, 3.5KG.



pops6927 said:


> if it is over 2" thick, then inject so it cures from the outside in as well as the inside out.





Steve H said:


> Thicker cuts should be injected. I've done pork loins in 14 days with them being wet brined and injecting them. You can still inject the leg you put in the brine.



I will do this I reckon 

 Steve H
 & 

 zwiller
  . Are you saying just put current brine from bucket into the Syringe and inject? 

Again, thanks all for your help.


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## indaswamp (Nov 26, 2019)

chopsaw said:


> Go wipe your nose off .


Now why would I need to do that?


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## chopsaw (Nov 26, 2019)

Jabiru said:


> Buy a better cure with the Ingredients listed.


Happy you got some direction from all this .  Just make sure you know what cure you have , and the ingredients are listed on the bag . 
If you have access to Morton's Tender Quick , you should give 

 Bearcarver
  steps a look . Follow his directions and knowledge of that method , and you will be happy with the results . I have done several of  his cure 's and also the normal smokes . Never had a bad one . It's all laid out for you to reference and guide you thru . 

Doing Hams I use Dave's info for the  phosphate injected cure . It is  the best ham you will ever eat .  This will fix your un-cured ham trouble . 





						HAM....  easy peasy... no mess.... DISCLAIMER.. MONEY...
					

I've been injecting hams to cure for some time...  decided I needed a needle to get to all parts from one side...  No flipping, no turning, here it its....  5" , #14 gauge blunt/sharpened needle..   Found this picnic at w-m that has NOT been injected... The paper towel is sprayed with vinegar...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				



Good luck .


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## Jabiru (Nov 26, 2019)

Thanks 

 chopsaw
 . Unfortunately I cant get Tender Quick in Australia. That link to Daves Ham looks like a winner, I wish I saw that a week ago, will definitely try that.

I might have to buy a Store Bought ham as Backup  for Christmas day, just in case


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## chopsaw (Nov 26, 2019)

Jabiru said:


> I might have to buy a Store Bought ham as Backup for Christmas day,


I would do that . Look thru these  . 








						Double Smoked Holiday Ham Glazed with Maple Syrup - Learn to Smoke Meat with Jeff Phillips
					

There's a very good chance that this double smoked ham will be the best holiday ham you've ever tasted. How do I know this? I've been making this ham for a




					www.Smoking-Meat.com





Here's one of Bear's . I've done this one . Really good . 





						Double Smoked Ham  (Bear Style)
					

Double Smoked Ham   (Bear Style)  I made a Step by Step of Smoking 2 Hams, and one of Smoking 4 Hams, so I figured it’s time to do a Single Ham. These are still the Best Hams I’ve ever eaten, so might as well go for it.  Also Mrs Bear found this Fully Cooked Shank Portion Ham on sale for 99...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## Steve H (Nov 27, 2019)

Jabiru said:


> Holy smokes!
> 
> Thank you all for the help. My cured meat is always Grey in the centre like the pictures
> 
> ...



Yes, that will do the trick just fine.


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## Jabiru (Nov 27, 2019)

Cool, thanks Steve. I’ll let you know the result.


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## sawhorseray (Nov 27, 2019)

Are you saying just put current brine from bucket into the Syringe and inject? [/QUOTE]

Yes, exactly that. Weigh your meat when you bring it home before doing anything to it, what you will have will be referred to as the "green weight" of the meat. For curing hams and bacon you'll be wanting to inject 10% of the "green weight" of your meat, into the meat. We'll go on the assumption you have a properly formulated brine: water, salt, Cure #1, powdered dextrose, etc.  You've got a hog leg that had a green weight of ten pounds. 10% of that would be one pound, so you would want to inject 16 ounces of your brine solution into the meat. Once it's properly cured it's no longer a hog leg, now it's a ham. It's the sodium nitrite, Cure #1, that'll cause the change in color, and flavor , of cured meats. Hope this helps. RAY


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## DanMcG (Nov 27, 2019)

Jabiru said:


> Am I running to short a period? Do I need to inject?



I'd have to say you need to leave it in the cure longer.  I can't say if it's your curing salt or fridge temps or what, but if it was me I'd go longer  and see what happens.


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## Jabiru (Nov 27, 2019)

Thanks for that info Sawhorseray. I’ll pump some brine in as you describe. Will definitely inject from now on.


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## DanMcG (Nov 27, 2019)

I was just looking around the internet for more info on you curing product, (which I found zero) but I did find a cure #1 on ebay.au that is only 2% nitrite, which makes me wonder what you really have.


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## forktender (Nov 27, 2019)

First  off aging is "not" curing, secondly you can damn sure see meat that didn't get cure on it before cooking it.

Mr Bear is absolutely correct with his posts.


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## Steve H (Nov 27, 2019)




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## forktender (Nov 27, 2019)

Not beating anything Steve, If anything you're the one that posted 6x in this thread.


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## chopsaw (Nov 27, 2019)

danmcg said:


> I don't see any ingredients list on the package?





chopsaw said:


> I went and looked . Ended up on an EBay page for Good stuff mate . No ingredient list there either .
> How can you use it correctly if you don't know what's in the bag ?





danmcg said:


> I was just looking around the internet for more info on you curing product, (which I found zero) but I did find a cure #1 on ebay.au that is only 2% nitrite, which makes me wonder what you really have.


This is where you need to start . Make sure you have the right cure and use it properly . 
Injecting what you already have is still a guess , and fixes nothing . I agree it should help , or like Dan said leave it longer but my opinion is get the right stuff and start over . 
Cook what you have , but get it past 140 in 4 hours just to be safe . 



forktender said:


> you can damn sure see meat that didn't get cure on it before cooking it.
> 
> Mr Bear is absolutely correct with his posts.


Agree . You can take or leave the knowledge and experience , but " absolutely correct " is a true statement .


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## DanMcG (Nov 27, 2019)

I can't say I've ever cut a piece of meat in half to see if it was cured, so I can't say if you could tell if it's cure thru to the center or not. 
I Just might do a test, just to see what results I get.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 27, 2019)

danmcg said:


> I can't say I've ever cut a piece of meat in half to see if it was cured, so I can't say if you could tell if it's cure thru to the center or not.
> I Just might do a test, just to see what results I get.




Yup---Give it a try Dan.
Been working for me for 9 years.
I think I got it from RonP (RIP) and a few others.

Bear


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## Steve H (Nov 27, 2019)

forktender said:


> Not beating anything Steve, If anything you're the one that posted 6x in this thread.



That wasn't directed towards you my friend.


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## Steve H (Nov 27, 2019)

I really posted on this 6 times? I thought I gave up sooner!


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## hoity toit (Nov 27, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> I can't tell the percentage of cure by naked eye, and I don't care, but I can tell if it's cured enough by the color.
> Most people don't even check, but most people who learned from me check it the way I do.
> You don't have to---That's up to you, but when you tell people they can't tell if the cure got to center by looking at the color, you're wrong, and hopefully there will be somebody there to correct that, before other people get it wrong too.
> 
> ...


Bear, once you open a can of worms it's hard to get them all back in the can. I'm with you and give up. You can't fix stupid. Let's move on to better things ahead.

HT


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 27, 2019)

Just Curious as I've not seen anything specific...injecting 10% is the standard, but what happens if I Inject all the meat will take, say 30% Cure Solution by weight?...JJ


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## DanMcG (Nov 27, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> Just Curious as I've not seen anything specific...injecting 10% is the standard, but what happens if I Inject all the meat will take, say 30% Cure Solution by weight?...JJ


I think you'll find to almost impossible to get a piece of meat to accept more than 10% JJ


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## gmc2003 (Nov 27, 2019)

I knew a girl in high school that was exceptionally skilled at curing meat, and the full  acceptance of brine  was never an issue.   

Sorry I couldn't help it, and I know I'm not helping matters. Please delete if deemed necessary. 
George.


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## chopsaw (Nov 27, 2019)

__





						Question on Venison cure....
					

Ok, I have a small piece of vension rear leg meat that was 1 3/4" thick at it's thickest point.]  I put in cure with 1 tbs tq and 2 tbs brown sugar per 1lb of meat measured out on scale. (Thanks Bear for the recipe.!)  Been in cure since 11/19 flipping daily.  Was planning on smoking on 11/29...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				



Check the pic in Post #4 .
Perfect timing 

 Mofatguy
 . Thanks for sharing this .


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 27, 2019)

danmcg said:


> I think you'll find to almost impossible to get a piece of meat to accept more than 10% JJ



So there is no need to be precise? Just make up what's needed to cover the meat, plus. Inject what it will take and submerge...JJ


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## Bearcarver (Nov 27, 2019)

chopsaw said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks Rich!!
That Thread explains & shows exactly what I was talking about, and what I've been seeing with my naked eye & doing for 9 years. It doesn't take a superman--It's there for the average eye to see, if you're smart enough to look.
Like I said, "It's not Rocket science. You just have to listen to the guys who have been doing it all along!
Laughing at me doesn't change the facts.

Bear


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## Jabiru (Nov 27, 2019)

This is what my Cured Loins and Tenderloin looks like. The Tenderloin was 14 days and the Loin was 18 Days, dry brined in Bag. But wet or dry = same results. If I compare to other peoples pictures it is pink through out.







Notice the white in the centre....


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## chopsaw (Nov 27, 2019)

The second one you were almost there . That first one not even close for 18 days .


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## DanMcG (Nov 27, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> So there is no need to be precise? Just make up what's needed to cover the meat, plus. Inject what it will take and submerge...JJ


I'm not exactly sure what you're saying JJ,. What I meant is for the home curer 10% is about the max you'll get a piece of meat to hold no matter how hard you try.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 27, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> ENOUGH ARGUING!!!!
> 
> From the USDA...
> 
> ...


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## Bearcarver (Nov 27, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> ENOUGH ARGUING!!!!
> 
> From the USDA...
> 
> ...




*Amazing how USDA gets it wrong too.*
*Cured Raw Pork is Pink, not gray.*
*Uncured Raw Pork is Gray, not Pink.*
That's  another thing you can see in pictures if you don't happen to do any curing yourself*.

Bear*


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 28, 2019)

DanMcG
  My point was just..Based on what you are saying. There is no need to specifically measure out 10% to 2 decimal places. Since the meat will only take about 10%, just inject whatever it will take and proceed...JJ


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## DanMcG (Nov 28, 2019)

Sorry JJ , I guess my comment came off wrong. I'm a firm believer in properly measuring all cures. I always base my cure on the weight of the meat and the percent uptake I plan to inject.


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 28, 2019)

danmcg said:


> Sorry JJ , I guess my comment come off wrong. I'm a firm believer in properly measuring all cures. I always base my cure on the weight of the meat and the percent uptake I plan to inject.



I too am strict measuring Cure. I was just curious if 10% was a Magic Number or if pumping more would hurt anything. What you have found is meat will only take about 10% anyway. So it stands to reason that pumping all the meat will take will get you there, 10%+/- a little, whether you weigh it out first or not...JJ

BTW...I support precise measuring when using cures, especially for Newbies. The above is just the kind of stuff that pops into mind when I'm idle...


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## DanMcG (Nov 28, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> The above is just the kind of stuff that pops into mind when I'm idle...




Here's an interesting read for ya JJ , next time you got idle time.


			www.sausagemaking.org • View topic - 6% pump and rub.


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 28, 2019)

Great read. Thanks...JJ


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## forktender (Nov 28, 2019)

Steve H said:


> That wasn't directed towards you my friend.


It was the post right after the post I made, so I thought it was directed towards me.....No a problem here.
Have a great Thanksgiving.


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## Steve H (Nov 28, 2019)

forktender said:


> It was the post right after the post I made, so I thought it was directed towards me.....No a problem here.
> Have a great Thanksgiving.



Well, it won't be a good Thanksgiving for me. But I hope you and yours have one.


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## DanMcG (Nov 28, 2019)

Jabiru said:


> This is what my Cured Loins and Tenderloin looks like. The Tenderloin was 14 days and the Loin was 18 Days, dry brined in Bag. But wet or dry = same results. If I compare to other peoples pictures it is pink through out.
> 
> View attachment 412944
> 
> ...


Did you cook the loin on a wood fired grill/smoker? I was just looking at this pic again and it looks more like a nice smoke ring, then it does cured meat.


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## forktender (Nov 28, 2019)

I'm sorry, I guess I missed something Steve.


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## Steve H (Nov 28, 2019)

forktender said:


> I'm sorry, I guess I missed something Steve.



My father passed away yesterday afternoon.  Thanksgiving got put on hold.


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## forktender (Nov 28, 2019)

Steve H said:


> My father passed away yesterday afternoon.  Thanksgiving got put on hold.


Oh man, I'm super sorry to hear this Steve, that is terribly tragic news that almost everyone fears.
Hang in there brother that has to be some of the worst news ever, I am really sorry.
Dan


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## Steve H (Nov 28, 2019)

forktender said:


> Oh man, I'm super sorry to hear this Steve, that is terribly tragic news that almost everyone fears.
> Hang in there brother that has to be some of the worst news ever, I am really sorry.
> Dan


Thanks Dan. I appreciate it.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 28, 2019)

Steve H said:


> My father passed away yesterday afternoon.  Thanksgiving got put on hold.




Oh No---Sorry to hear that Steve!
I know how much that hurts. We lost my Dad 2 years after losing my Mom.
Hang in there, Buddy.

Bear


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## Steve H (Nov 28, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> Oh No---Sorry to hear that Steve!
> I know how much that hurts. We lost my Dad 2 years after losing my Mom.
> Hang in there, Buddy.
> 
> Bear



Thanks Bear. I appreciate the kind words.


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## indaswamp (Nov 28, 2019)

So very sorry to hear that news Steve. Thoughts and prays to your family....


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## Steve H (Nov 28, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> So very sorry to hear that news Steve. Thoughts and prays to your family....



Thank you for the kind words.


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## nanuk (Nov 28, 2019)

Steve H.
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

I lost my parents far too young.
And one year ago, we said goodbye to our daughter. (36Yo, leaving a 10yo grandson)

It gets easier, but as long as you hold the memories in your heart, they are never really gone.

Hang in there Friend.


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## nanuk (Nov 28, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> ....
> Scientific fact is:
> it is not possible to visually check cure doneness...
> ..... let facts rule...



I have done what BearCarver says... cut a pork loin to check for full cure penetration, and indeed, it is very easy to see if the center is still not cured.  In pork, it is gray(ish). 
I also cured some beef Eye of Round, and one piece did not cure to center... and it too was easy to see the difference when first cutting into it.
Scientific? No.
But more scientific than Greta!


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## nanuk (Nov 28, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> Just Curious as I've not seen anything specific...injecting 10% is the standard, but what happens if I Inject all the meat will take, say 30% Cure Solution by weight?...JJ



when I took my training, we overpumped some bellies and some legs for "learning experience"

you CAN over pump them, BUT you'll end up with bags of brine inside that will gush out when you cut into it. That is what happened to us.

It MAY dry out if you dry it enough... but I would think that area would be extra salty.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 29, 2019)

nanuk said:


> I have done what BearCarver says... cut a pork loin to check for full cure penetration, and indeed, it is very easy to see if the center is still not cured.  In pork, it is gray(ish).
> I also cured some beef Eye of Round, and one piece did not cure to center... and it too was easy to see the difference when first cutting into it.
> Scientific? No.
> But more scientific than Greta!




Thank You for that confirmation! It's so simple.

Bear


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 6, 2019)

There is nothing left to add here that will be of benefit. The treads is Locked..JJ


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