# Getting Fed Up with my Smoker - Just a Rant



## noggin (Aug 24, 2015)

*super short summary of the entire thread - *_I had issues with an AMNPS as it wouldn't stay lit and switched to a tube smoker.  The tube pellet smoker kicks ass and is giving me no issues at all!_

Sorry for the long rant... there is a question at the end though.  Might be this evening before I can respond to any posts though, but I thank anyone that takes the time to read this post.

I have a relatively low end propane smoker.  I cold smoked some cheese in it last winter and it was fantastic.  I've also made some excellent pork butts, briskets, and the best  chicken I've ever eaten in my life in it.  Couldn't eat the skin, but the meat, that was some good stuff.

The chip tray that comes with it sucks.  Bad.  It has holes in it and sits right above the fire, so the chips would catch on fire.  Fixed that with some aluminum foil.  But, the chips would burn up with 30 to 45 minutes.  It was a pain in the ass to keep opening it to let out all the heat when I put more chips in.  The water tray was too small, too.

When I got fed up with the chip dance, I replaced the chip tray with a large, flat, rectangular iron griddle from Academy sports.  I put a turkey tray full of sand on top of that to act as a heat sink and removed the water tray.  I switched to using an A-MAZ-N pellet tray for smoke generation.  I built a PID controller from a Raspberry PI and an analog board I designed myself.  It kept the cabinet temperature within 1 degree of my setpoint.  It was hell to get that A-MAZ-N tray to stay lit.  After a while, I realized that it was because I didn't have enough air flow.  Eventually, it'll light and stay lit, but it might take a few hours and half a dozen relights to get it to work.  

Next, I did the mailbox mod.  But it didn't work at all for 225 smoking.  Cold smoking, fantastic.  But at 225, the airflow in the cabinet was so bad that it was pushing the smoke back out of my mailbox.

I bought a smokestack from another smoker and mounted to my smoker.  It didn't really help.  Airflow still sucked.

I recently moved to a new home that has natural gas.  I converted the smoker to natural gas, and I think it made the airflow situation worse.  It might not be worse, it might be the same.  It definitely isn't better though.

I bought a 4" galvanized sheet metal pipe and a rain cap.  Air flow improved considerably, A-MAZ-N smoker will light and stay lit.  I can also keep it in the mailbox and it works pretty well.  Unfortunately, this has made it very difficult for the smoker to get up to temperature.  I didn't have a real baffle to put on top of the pipe, so I improvised with some tape just to see how it worked.  Ultimately, it seems like this could be the ticket.  I eventually found a balance where I could set the air flow where the smoker could maintain temperature and the A-MAZ-N tray would stay lit.

I tried putting the A-MAZ-N smoker on top of the griddle, thinking that maybe the extra heat would help.  And it did.  Too good.  It would cause the entire tray to start smoldering and put out tons of smoke.  So I noped out of that choice pretty quick.  Then I put a chunk of hickory on top of the griddle.  Nuthin.  It made the hickory chunk warm.  That's about it.  After a 8 hour stuffed chicken smoke, the bottom of the hickory chunk was charred, slightly, but no measurable amount of smoke came from it.  

Before I moved, the smoker was protected by a large brick wall.  Now, its basically out in the open and subject to all sorts of wind.  The last smoke I did, last weekend, was 8 hours long.  It was a stuffed chicken.  The wind blow out the flame 3 or 4 times over the course of 8 hours.  I improvised a wind guard and that seemed to work.

Now, I bought the propane smoker because i expected it to be a set-it-and-forget-it deal.  I then decided it would be fun to make a Raspberry Pi controller for it.  That was fun too.  But lately, I'm finding that I'm just fed up with that thing.  I want it to work so badly though.

I can fix the wind blowing out the flame with a wind guard.  The Raspberry PI can detect when the flame goes out and shut off the gas.  The Rasberry PI can be updated to relight the flame if I chose to do so.  But here's the kicker, all of that doesn't necessarily mean that I can count on the smoke generation to be good.  What I've learned is that when the PID controller is ramping up the temperature (has the gas set high) the pressure inside of the smoker is very high.  This reduces the "good" airflow that keeps the A-MAZ-N smoker lit.  When the smoker is at temperature, and the PID controller backs off to maintain temperature, the A-MAZ-N smoker stays lit.  What does this mean?  I need to *INSULATE  *the smoker to help it maintain temperature and to get it up to temperature more quickly.

But... I'm tired of messing with it.  This was fun two years ago, but now I have a 9 month old kid.  I don't have time to keep playing with it.

*So here's the real question...*

*$2000.  What smoker can I get that needs minimal supervision once it gets going?  I want it large enough to do a whole packer brisket or two 7 lb pork butts.  XL Big Green Egg?  L Big Green Egg?  Is there a good / great Natural Gas smoker?*


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## inkjunkie (Aug 24, 2015)

I have both a Large BGE and an XL. Grid diameter on the XL is 18". Both packers I have done were larger than this, ended up on the XL. Done a "lite" rack of spares on the L, had to bend them to fit. Moral of my story, the L gets used for burgers, meatloaf etc....the XL does all the bigger stuff. I have had the XL since 04 or so, the L just a few months...Good luck on your decision.  
On either one, once you get the vents figured out it will hold that temperature until it burns out. Our XL went over 24 hours on a load of wood. Then there is always the option of a controller


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## michaelt1959 (Aug 24, 2015)

As a fellow Texan, I encourage you to evaluate this fabricator.  I have looked at a lot of them, and I visited these guys last week as they are only 20 minutes from my house.  AWESOME units, excellent fabrication, and quite possibly some of the best made units you can find on the market anywhere in the country. 

Exceptional value for the dollar - and the owner literally touches every unit throughout the process to ensure the quality.  No shortcuts - none. Truly hands on. He is has been in the fabrication for years and done some pretty special ornamental work, etc., over the years in this area and his reputation for quality there is A-1.  All he does now is "pits".  Great guy.  His name is Chris. Wife's name is Amanda. One or the other of them will answer the phone. 

They have two (2) units right in your wheelhouse @ $2,000 or just under. I am deciding which I want now - both offsets, one vertical the other horizontal.  Was going to go with Yoder, but decided to buy local.  Just a better all around unit from these guys, and knowing they are in Texas is nice.

Good luck!

http://www.lonestargrillz.com/


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## bruno994 (Aug 24, 2015)

Honestly, if you are looking at minimal supervision, a stick burner is not the way to go.  You'd be better off building or buying an Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS) or 2.  Your other option for minimal supervision would be any number of cabinet style smokers from several different manufacturers (Backwoods, Pitmaker, Stumps, etc.)  Even Lone Star Grillz (that Michael mentioned) is producing a cabinet style smoker now, price range is in the mid $2000's.


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## michaelt1959 (Aug 24, 2015)

I concur with Bruno994.  If it's minimal supervision you desire given your toddler a vault is indeed the way to go because the best built stick burners require TLC, best I can figure. Lonestar's entry level vault is right @ $2K, I believe out the door.

FYI ... 15-16 week wait period with them.  50% down, 50% on pick up.


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## bruno994 (Aug 24, 2015)

BTW, Michael is 100% correct on the quality of the Lone Star builds, I have seen several up close, well built machines, but the same goes for Pits By JJ and Pitmaker as well, both in Houston.   Noggin, depending on where you are located, there might be others closer to you as well.


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## inkjunkie (Aug 24, 2015)

Why are folks mentioning stick burners when the op wants minimal maintenance after getting it lit?


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## bruno994 (Aug 24, 2015)

inkjunkie said:


> Why are folks mentioning stick burners when the op wants minimal maintenance after getting it lit?


All the mentioned pit builders build both offset and vertical cabinet style smokers (Pitmaker, Lone Star Grillz, Backwoods, Stumps)


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## bmaddox (Aug 24, 2015)

Since it sounds like you are pretty darn handy, I say save the money and build a UDS. Then reprogram the raspberry pi to control a pit fan to maintain your temps. Then throw in an amazen tube smoker to ensure the smoke keeps going. You could be set and ready to go for less than $300. I can fit a 16 pound brisket on mine with plenty of room.

But that's just me and I am known to be on the cheap side. If you do go with an XL BGE then you could still do a pit fan and controller.


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## bruno994 (Aug 24, 2015)

I'm with bmaddox, UDS is a great and cheap investment and easy to manage the fire too.


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## noggin (Aug 24, 2015)

Wow, lots of great responses.  Thanks everyone...

I took a look at Lonestar Grillz and I REALLY like that insulated smoker.  I'd want it with the side table and one or two other options, which would put it at about $2500.  $2000 would be what I'd want to spend at the absolute maximum, and even that is more than I'd _like_  to spend.  

I considered a UDS before I got my propane smoker, but I went propane because it seemed easier.  Now that I'm a bit more open to using charcoal, I've looked at it again.  I don't want to go through with what some people have done (drilling, cutting, burning, sanding, priming and painting) so this seems like too much work.  I have no doubts that I can do all of that, but having just moved into a new home and trying to keep up with the little bugger, I'm not too keen on taking on yet another project.  That said, http://www.bubbasbarrels.com/big-poppas-stainless-drum-smoker-kit looks like a really great option.  Not only that, it is a stainless drum, so rusting should be of little concern so longevity should be great.  The only issue with this UDS kit is that it has adjustable vents for the air inlets.  I think I'd prefer a ball valve to allow me to eventually hook my RPi into it... after programming it to drive a blower motor instead of control a needle valve of course.


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## daveomak (Aug 24, 2015)

Your original smoker set up did not have enough oxygen...   Flame consumes the oxygen and the AMNPS won't work..  The AMNTS should work....   Also sounds like the iron griddle blocked air flow....    
Had you drilled holes in the original smoker it should have worked...  many have made that mod...    8 each 1" holes around the top of the side walls and 4 each around the bottom of the side walls should make the original smoker work and provide adequate air flow....  
There are several threads on here where folks have done mods to make the smoker work.....  

Dave


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## bruno994 (Aug 24, 2015)

Look into gatewaydrumsmokers.com if you haven't yet.


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## unclebubbas bbq (Aug 24, 2015)

Since you asked and everyone else gave their 2 cents worth I would purchase a Rec Tec pellet grill. Set your temps and walk away. You can do 2 full packets or 8 boston butts. High quality, 6 year warranty and all said & done around $1,250 delivered.


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## worktogthr (Aug 24, 2015)

You can get a pit barrel cooker.  Enough for a large brisket whether you are hanging it or putting it on the grate.  Beautiful thing is everyone has this impression that it only cooks hot and fast but the truth is you can modify your initial set up just a bit and achieve lower or higher temps.


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## gr8day (Aug 24, 2015)

My budget is just under 2K and I've decided on a Insulated Cabinet Smoker and I'm down to a Humphrey's Weeble or 270 Sumo, they are both under 2K delivered. I don't think I'll need it because I never felt the need to add one to the WSM but a Guru could be added on down the road. 

Another option I looked at is a Pellet Grill and was considering the MAK 1 Star, I currently smoke on a WSM 18.5, also have a Weber Gasser and Charcoal Grill so I don't need a grill and I'm very happy with the food I produce on the WSM just looking for a dedicated Smoker with more capacity and a little less effected by weather.


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## b-one (Aug 24, 2015)

Look at a WSM 22.5 save the extra cash for food or something else.


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## smokin phil (Aug 24, 2015)

If you want "set and forget", what about electric? I realize they have their cons, but tending a fire or your flame blowing out aren't.  A decent unit, a few mods, you'd have a great smoker for 1/4 of your budget. Just something to think about.


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## noggin (Aug 25, 2015)

DaveOmak said:


> Your original smoker set up did not have enough oxygen... Flame consumes the oxygen and the AMNPS won't work.. The AMNTS should work.... Also sounds like the iron griddle blocked air flow....
> Had you drilled holes in the original smoker it should have worked... many have made that mod... 8 each 1" holes around the top of the side walls and 4 each around the bottom of the side walls should make the original smoker work and provide adequate air flow....
> There are several threads on here where folks have done mods to make the smoker work.....
> 
> Dave


The tube smokers are more friendly to oxygen depleted chambers?

I'm sure the iron griddle had some effect on the airflow, but I tried to minimize it.  I raised it up fairly high, see the picture below.  The tray on top of the griddle was filled with sand, but I've removed it and run it without the sand now.  You can also see where the mailbox mod comes into the smoker.  I'm thinking that before I finally give up on this smoker, I'm going to move the mailbox entry point to the bottom of the smoker.  

(I noticed the leaves under the smoker and cleaned up before actually doing the smoke session)













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__ noggin
__ Nov 30, 2014






As for getting more airflow, here's a recent picture of the smoker.  The larger smokestack seems to give ample airflow, to the point where the gas can't raise the temperature to 225°C without putting painters tape over the top of using some really high-tech painters tape as a baffle...













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__ noggin
__ Aug 25, 2015








bruno994 said:


> Look into gatewaydrumsmokers.com if you haven't yet.


Is there any real difference between these and a UDS?  Visually, it looks like their air intakes (and maybe one is a water fill port?) are up high.  Otherwise, I didn't see much information on their website about their smokers.


UncleBubbas BBQ said:


> Since you asked and everyone else gave their 2 cents worth I would purchase a Rec Tec pellet grill. Set your temps and walk away. You can do 2 full packets or 8 boston butts. High quality, 6 year warranty and all said & done around $1,250 delivered.


If I put a temperature controller on a smoker, I'd rather it be of my own design, or at least open source hardware and firmware so I can modify it.  I have some good ideas on how to further improve on any of the pit controllers on the market.


Smokin Phil said:


> If you want "set and forget", what about electric? I realize they have their cons, but tending a fire or your flame blowing out aren't. A decent unit, a few mods, you'd have a great smoker for 1/4 of your budget. Just something to think about.


I've actually considered adding heating elements to my smoker.  My Raspberry Pi could easily control the heating elements to add a good bit of non-oxygen-depleting heat that would make the A-MAZ-N smoker a bit happier.


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## tjohnson (Aug 27, 2015)

Send back the AMNPS 5x8 and I'll send you a 12" Tube Smoker

The Tube Smoker will work great right inside your gas smoker

Then you can use what you already own!

Todd


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## morkfrompork (Aug 27, 2015)

"*$2000.  What smoker can I get that needs minimal supervision once it gets going?"*

*With that as a goal, a quality pellet unit seems to fit perfectly.*

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/products/category/pellet-smoker


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## noggin (Aug 27, 2015)

TJohnson said:


> Send back the AMNPS 5x8 and I'll send you a 12" Tube Smoker
> 
> The Tube Smoker will work great right inside your gas smoker
> 
> ...


I can't, in good conscience, do that.  I've had this thing for a couple of years now.  I may have had some issues keeping it lit, but I've had plenty of good cooks where it stayed lit, and if I can get the mailbox mod working properly I'd seriously regret not having the AMNPS for the increased smoke time over the tube smoker.

But if you're telling me that a Tube Smoker has a better chance of working properly in my gasser, then I'll buy_  _one today and test it next weekend.  I'm having some friends over in a few weekends and I'm planning on making at least 6 racks of ribs.  I'd love to not have to worry about smoke generation, and I'd love to not have to change smokers.  

Though I've decided, based on this thread, that I want a UDS if I do change smokers :)


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## noggin (Aug 27, 2015)

Someone else also suggested that one, looks like it could replace my smoker and my grill.  I'm happy with my grill (propane, need to convert to NG) though and think I've decided on a UDS with a blower controller if I make the change.  I think I'm going to pick up a tube smoker from Todd and give it a shot.  If it doesn't work, I'll start looking for parts or a kit for a UDS.  Just have to finish with all the "new house duties" before I can spend time building a new smoker.


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## bmaddox (Aug 27, 2015)

Noggin said:


> Someone else also suggested that one, looks like it could replace my smoker and my grill.  I'm happy with my grill (propane, need to convert to NG) though and think I've decided on a UDS with a blower controller if I make the change.  I think I'm going to pick up a tube smoker from Todd and give it a shot.  If it doesn't work, I'll start looking for parts or a kit for a UDS.  Just have to finish with all the "new house duties" before I can spend time building a new smoker.


Sounds like you and I are on similar paths. I built my first UDS earlier in the year and now have two more drums ready to build more. I also just got an 18" tube and will be testing it out this weekend. Good luck.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 27, 2015)

I can attest to how well the tube smoker works in a propane. I have the 18", 12", and 6" AMNTS. They all work great in the propane smoker.

Question for you, have you done a needle valve mod? I can run my propane smoker from 100°-500°+ with little fiddling. At the lower temps (below 140°) I do need to watch it.

Here's my set up, this is the 12" AMNTS in action. Water pan used as a diffuser. One note if you try and smoke above 285° the pellets will ignite in the tube. For higher temp smokes I also made a mailbox mod for the tube.













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__ dirtsailor2003
__ Aug 27, 2015






This was at low temps, 140°-180°

Here is a shot at higher temps and you can see I moved the AMNTS I did this to get it away from the burner.













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__ dirtsailor2003
__ Aug 27, 2015


















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__ dirtsailor2003
__ Aug 27, 2015






Just firing up. You need a flame like that to burn for a good 5 minutes then blow out. I light the tube outside the smoker then move it in and blow it out.

As for other smokers I too will recommend the UDS or the WSM. Both set and forget, especially if equipped with a blower and pid. On my UDS and WSM I maybe have to make 3-4 adjustments early on as temps settle and that's fine by me.


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## noggin (Aug 27, 2015)

I do have a needle valve, and I'm also driving it with a PID controller of my own design.  There are two things I want to do right now... first, I want to get a tube smoker now.  Second, I want to move my mailbox port down to the bottom of the smoker.  When the gas is up high, it blows air back out through the mailbox.  This air is apparently low in oxygen and it chokes out the pellets.  

I couldn't see where your mailbox comes into your smoker though.  I don't know if moving the mailbox port lower in the cabin will help or not.













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__ noggin
__ Nov 30, 2014


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 27, 2015)

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__ dirtsailor2003
__ Aug 27, 2015


















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__ dirtsailor2003
__ Aug 27, 2015






Here's a pic of it attached to one of my mini-wsms. I know I have a photo of it attached to my GOSM somewhere. I use the same connection to the GOSM. It goes in the side of the smoker, down low near the bottom.


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## noggin (Aug 27, 2015)

haha, I cut a huge 3" hole and shoved the dryer tube into it.  Didn't think to use a smaller hole and a valve.


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## westby (Sep 1, 2015)

With that budget, I would go for a Yoder YS640 and use the remaining money to do a bulk buy of pellets that would last you a year or more.  Not sure if you want a pellet smoker, but it sounds like you have as much time as me and the pellet grill is a blessing and temp consistency is rock solid.  I currently have a Rec Tec and love it, but with that budget, I'd go with a Yoder.  Good luck.


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## boboso (Sep 2, 2015)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> I can attest to how well the tube smoker works in a propane. I have the 18", 12", and 6" AMNTS. They all work great in the propane smoker.
> 
> Question for you, have you done a needle valve mod? I can run my propane smoker from 100°-500°+ with little fiddling. At the lower temps (below 140°) I do need to watch it.
> 
> ...



I noticed in your pics with the AMNTS, looks like a piece of foil in the end. Is that to keep the pellets from falling out? I've had that problem myself, also have had a problem getting and keeping it lit. Just bought a small propane torch to use instead of a bbq lighter. Hope that works better. Might be my pellets aren't dry enuf either. I use a 6in on my Jumbo Joe set up. Was just wondering about the foil. Thanks.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Sep 2, 2015)

Boboso said:


> I noticed in your pics with the AMNTS, looks like a piece of foil in the end. Is that to keep the pellets from falling out? I've had that problem myself, also have had a problem getting and keeping it lit. Just bought a small propane torch to use instead of a bbq lighter. Hope that works better. Might be my pellets aren't dry enuf either. I use a 6in on my Jumbo Joe set up. Was just wondering about the foil. Thanks.


The only time i use foil around the tube smoker is to seal off air leaks in my mailbox mod, or a tent over it to keep drippings off or to prop the end of the tube up a bit to keep the pellets from falling out.. If you fill the tube full you will have some pellets fall out, no big deal. I exclusively use a propane torch to light the pellets. You really need a good flame rolling for a good five minutes prior to blowing it out.


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## americanflannel (Sep 5, 2015)

Get  a kamado (I recommend the BGE) , smoking is as easy as putting in a place setter or pizza stone as a heat deflector , empty aluminum foil pan to catch drippings (so they don't) burn, using a BGE full of lump with chunked wood for smoke mixed in - then wait 10-20 hours and meat comes out awesome.

It also can get over 800 degrees easily if you want to destroy evidence or sear steaks and stuff.

Also a good community of users and aftermarket parts.


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## dj-ia (Sep 5, 2015)

If you want a stand alone dedicated smoker go  with the Humphrey's Battle Box http://www.humphreysbbq.com/smokers/testing 
they're within your budget, hold rock solid temps, and well built.  Or as others have said go with a kamado/ceramic grill which will give you grilling and smoking and extremely easy to maintain temps with minimal effort.


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## retfr8flyr (Sep 6, 2015)

If you want to do more than just smoking with your grill, then a Kamado is the way to go. You can smoke, grill, or bake with one, they are very versitle. I would recommend the Kamado Joe Big Joe over the BGE XL. The KJ grill is extremely versatile, with their Divide and Conquer grill system and runs a little less than the BGE, when comparably equipped. I absolutely love my Big Joe and highly recommend it  Another Kamado style grill you should check out is the Primo Oval XL. The Primo has an oval shape and allows longer cuts to fit the grill, compared to a round grill. All these grill are well within your $2000 budget.


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## jbgates (Sep 7, 2015)

Go to LoneStarGrillzs in Willis ,TX (north of Conroe ). You will be very impressed with the people and facility. Be prepared to order the best smoker on the market. 
I have their 60" x24" offset pipe smoker. 













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__ jbgates
__ Sep 7, 2015


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## noggin (Sep 14, 2015)

Felt that I needed to come back and give an update as to my current situation.

I thank everyone for the advice and suggestions given on purchasing a new smoker.  Todd (owner of amazenproducts if I'm not mistaken) contacted me and offered to exchange my old AMNPS 5x8 for a new tube smoker.  I declined the offer as my AMNPS was quite old and thoroughly used.  I did, however, purchase a new tube smoker from him.  I used it yesterday to smoke 6 racks of ribs and 60 ABTs.  No pics of the finished products unfortunately... too many beers.  However, the tube smoker did perform better than the AMNPS as it stayed lit and generated smoke the entire time. 

The two trays of ABTs acted as a heat shield at the bottom of the smoker.  This was keeping the temperature from reaching 225°F at the top where the ribs were located, while the bottom rack was over 300°F.  In an effort to get the temperature up to 225°F, the PID controller had the gas cranked wide open.  It was with the gas cranked wide open in previous smoke sessions that the AMNPS failed to perform, while the tube smoker had no issues.  

Due to yesterday's performance, I plan on sticking with the gasser a while longer.  If I do experience more issues in the future, I'll revisit this thread to take another look at everyone's suggestions.


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## noggin (Dec 5, 2015)

One final update... I've done multiple smokes since my last post and haven't had a single issue with the tube smoker.  That thing is kicking butt and chugging away at at this very moment.  I'm so much happier with the tube than I was with the AMNPS.  













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__ noggin
__ Dec 5, 2015


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## bmudd14474 (Dec 5, 2015)

Thanks for updating us and I'm really glad to hear that the tube works way better.


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