# Smoked...then sous vide...pork butt experiment



## gnatboy911

Hey guys, So I started a thread a while back asking if anyone had done this but nobody seemed to respond with much advice.  I gave it a shot.  I rubbed a pork butt with a rub I found online on another website.  Its my usual pork rub, its called Memphis Meathead Dust.  I smoked the pork at a little higher temp than my usual 225.  I was reading that some guys are smoking them at 275ish with good results so thats what I did.  I also wanted to try and develop some sort of bark/crust in the short time it would be in the smoker. 

The recommended sous vide temp for pulled pork was 155-165 depending on where you looked.  I decided on 160.  I smoked the pork butt with apple wood chunks on top of some charcoal.  I smoked the pork until the IT hit 155, then brought into the house, and into the sous vide back.  I recommend using a smaller butt than I did...or get some bigger bags.  I was using the widest bag my vacuum sealer can seal...and it was a pain getting into the bag.  I sealed the bag, not much vacuum...just barely enough to get the air out.  Then washed the outside of the bag well, and into the water for 24 hrs. (ended up being about 20 hrs)

Timeline....Friday: 6pm meat went in the smoker

                              9:30 meat at IT of 155

                              10pm in the preheated sous vide water

                Saturday 6pm....out of water to pull

                               7 pm...lay on couch...belly full of delicious meat.

I can tell you the meat was outstanding.  Very tender...extremely moist and juicy.  If you are a big bark person...not the method for you.  It wasn't crusty, crunchy bark.  The smoke flavor was definitely there.  The wife thought it was outstanding pulled pork.













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__ Feb 27, 2017






before the smoker.  basic pulled pork.













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After about 3.5 hrs @ 275ish.  IT of  155.













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After about 20 hrs in the sous vide.  160 degrees.













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out of the bag.  Smelled great.













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bone pulled out, clean as a whistle.













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pulled apart very easily.  The liquid in the other pan (from the bag) was very good drizzled over the meat, its like it made its own finishing sauce.  I can assure you though, it was plenty moist and didn't need any extra sauce at all.













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__ Feb 27, 2017






I made some pretzel buns on Saturday for the pork.  I used the recipe that Al shared a while back.  They were good.  Went basic on the beans...dumped them from the can...haha.

The pork was every bit delicious and moist from the outside edge to the center.  Every piece was very juicy and tender.  Negatives would be the crust...no bark to speak of...but the flavor was there.  It was a little light on the smoke flavor, but it was every bit present and delicious.  I'm honestly trying to find flaws, but having a hard time.  I'd say successful experiment for sure.


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## crazymoon

GB911, Your PP looks excellent!


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## b-one

Interesting experiment!


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## smokeymose

Sounds good! What size was the water container?


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## bellaru

Interesting.
Looks good and great experiment.


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## dirtsailor2003

Looks tasty. Nice cook. 

Point! 

I have to question though if the two step process is worth the time and effort. 

There are Many whom like the bark, myself included. So that would be a deal breaker for me. 

For my wife, the water and energy required would also be a deal breaker. 

I really like honest reviews and yours is spot on.

Then Theresa the extra steps...


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## gnatboy911

SmokeyMose said:


> Sounds good! What size was the water container?


I used a 5 gallon bucket.  Seemed to work well.  I want to get a cooler of some sort for this set up though.


dirtsailor2003 said:


> Looks tasty. Nice cook.
> 
> Point!
> 
> I have to question though if the two step process is worth the time and effort.
> 
> There are Many whom like the bark, myself included. So that would be a deal breaker for me.
> 
> For my wife, the water and energy required would also be a deal breaker.
> 
> I really like honest reviews and yours is spot on.
> 
> Then Theresa the extra steps...


Thanks Dirt.  It was delicious.  Yes, I thought it was worth the two step process.  It actually seemed like less work than my usual process of spending all day smoking a pork butt.  I generally have to add charcoal to my smoker every couple hours, and a pork butt this size would have taken me all day.  I'm working on trying to figure out the Minion method I've read about to get my charcoal to last longer, but thats topic for another discussion.

I fired up the smoker in the evening after work, smoked for a few hrs, then into the sous vide bag and forgot about it (except for a few times adding some additional water) until the next night for dinner.

I did miss the bark, but the meat itself was great.  It was a trade off I think.  Next pork butt I do will be the traditional way, so I can compare back to this cook.

I cooked it in a 5 gallon bucket, but did add water occasionally.  As for the power consumption, I know in a cooler set up it would have been much more energy efficient.  I would be curious to buy an actual gauge you plug the Anova into that would record how much power it is using.


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## SmokinAl

That was a great experiment & the PP looked fantastic!

I'm glad someone tried this to see what the outcome would be.

For me I'm not concerned in the work or time or electricity that goes into SV'ing something if it comes out better than other ways of cooking.

However for me the bark issue would be a deal breaker. 

The reason I never foil a butt is because I want that thick bark mixed in with the meat.

But I gave you a point for a great experiment!!

And that pretzel bun sammie looked amazing!

Al


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## gnatboy911

SmokinAl said:


> That was a great experiment & the PP looked fantastic!
> 
> I'm glad someone tried this to see what the outcome would be.
> 
> For me I'm not concerned in the work or time or electricity that goes into SV'ing something if it comes out better than other ways of cooking.
> 
> However for me the bark issue would be a deal breaker.
> 
> The reason I never foil a butt is because I want that thick bark mixed in with the meat.
> 
> But I gave you a point for a great experiment!!
> 
> And that pretzel bun sammie looked amazing!
> 
> Al


Thanks Al!  The pretzel bun was delicious, thanks for sharing the recipe.  I do also enjoy good chunks of bark mixed in to the pulled pork.


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## dls1

Nice looking pulled pork you have there, gnatboy. Nice job.

I've cooked pork shoulder for pulled pork combing sous vide and the smoker several times. As you did, I tried smoking first followed by sous vide, but only once. The meat was great, but not so much the bark. The next time around, I reversed the process starting with sous vide then into the smoker. While each method has it's advantages and disadvantages, I definitely prefer the latter, especially when it comes to the consideration of bark formation.

Starting with sous vide, I cook the shoulder at 165F for 18-20 hours. From there, it's into the smoker set at 250F for 3-4 hours until the IT is 195F-200F, and I get the bark formation that I desire. Very tender, juicy, and smoky meat with the right amount of bark.


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## gnatboy911

dls1 said:


> Nice looking pulled pork you have there, gnatboy. Nice job.
> 
> I've cooked pork shoulder for pulled pork combing sous vide and the smoker several times. As you did, I tried smoking first followed by sous vide, but only once. The meat was great, but not so much the bark. The next time around, I reversed the process starting with sous vide then into the smoker. While each method has it's advantages and disadvantages, I definitely prefer the latter, especially when it comes to the consideration of bark formation.
> 
> Starting with sous vide, I cook the shoulder at 165F for 18-20 hours. From there, it's into the smoker set at 250F for 3-4 hours until the IT is 195F-200F, and I get the bark formation that I desire. Very tender, juicy, and smoky meat with the right amount of bark.


dls1, thanks for the compliments.  Interesting to sous vide first, then smoke.  I'm going to try that next time, as I also was craving the bark.  Thanks for the tips!

Nate.


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## emuleman

I was thinking of trying something like this, so thank you for the information.  I also like the idea of sous vide first then smoking to get that wonderful bark.  Might have to give this a shot sometime soon.  Thanks again for sharing!


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## poopypuss

That looks great!

I might try a brisket in the bath.

I've never been able to make one that was edible.


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## fwismoker

I've thought about smoking/grilling for a while then finishing in a pressure cooker.  I'd imagine it'd be similar


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## atomicsmoke

Double post...sorry.


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## atomicsmoke

FWIsmoker said:


> I've thought about smoking/grilling for a while then finishing in a pressure cooker.  I'd imagine it'd be similar


You need liquid in the pressure cooker.. wouldn't that "sweat" the good stuff out? Also ...You can't probe temp while in the pressure cooker. 5 extra minutes in the pressure cooker can seriously overcook the meat.


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## jeremy1978

​I tried sous vide then smoker this weekend, I did a 2.5lb pork butt in the sous vide at 160 for 24 hours, then to the smoker at 250 for about 4-1/2 hours. I went with the small piece because if it was terrible I wasn't out anything. After the 24 hours I took the pork and put it in a foil "bowl" and poured the juices into it not sure if it did anything but it made me feel better. When the IT hit about 195 (I couldn't wait any longer) I yanked it and put it in a metal bowl and pulled it immediately. The bone literally came out with no effort and without any meat left on it at all. The meat was the most tender and juiciest pork I've ever had. I took the leftovers to the local watering hole during the race and it was a hit. I will most definitely be doing my pulled pork this way from now on


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## gnatboy911

Jeremy1978 said:


> ​I tried sous vide then smoker this weekend, I did a 2.5lb pork butt in the sous vide at 160 for 24 hours, then to the smoker at 250 for about 4-1/2 hours. I went with the small piece because if it was terrible I wasn't out anything. After the 24 hours I took the pork and put it in a foil "bowl" and poured the juices into it not sure if it did anything but it made me feel better. When the IT hit about 195 (I couldn't wait any longer) I yanked it and put it in a metal bowl and pulled it immediately. The bone literally came out with no effort and without any meat left on it at all. The meat was the most tender and juiciest pork I've ever had. I took the leftovers to the local watering hole during the race and it was a hit. I will most definitely be doing my pulled pork this way from now on


 Jeremy, thanks for the added info!  Did it develop good bark?  also, how was the smoke flavor?  I was wondering about sous vide first...my concern was it wouldn't take the smoke flavor as well since it was already cooked.  Sounds like you had a great meal though. congrats and thanks for sharing.


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## gtkirk

So I did exactly this (smoke then sous vide) this past weekend. I smoked it for 2 hours at 250 (apple + cherry woods), then put it straight into the sous vide at 165.I ran into one significant issue - about 2 hours into the water, the seal on my bag failed! I happened to notice "too much" of a smell (a good smell, but not one you want from sous vide!) so I checked it, and sure enough, there was juice in the water. I pulled it out (lost all the juice that was in the bag), double-bagged it to be safe (double vacuum sealed), and added extra rub and honey to compensate for the presumed lost flavor from the seal snafu, replaced the water, and put it back in.

I pulled it from the sous vide after 17 total hours, and I was up against a time crunch and I had a brisket on my BGE, so I stuck it under the broiler to get a bark (worked quite well, actually). 

Ultimately, the pork was still extremely juicy, but it wasn't as flavorful as expected, which I attribute to the compromised seal.

All in all, I'd do it again. I used a similar process on the brisket (without the seal issue!) and it was absolutely fantastic.


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## jeremy1978

​It did get a pretty good bark, the smoke flavor was just about perfect. I might drop the temp a little next time, 220-225 so that it has a little more time for the bark but that's about the only thing I would change.


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## gnatboy911

GTKirk said:


> So I did exactly this (smoke then sous vide) this past weekend. I smoked it for 2 hours at 250 (apple + cherry woods), then put it straight into the sous vide at 165.I ran into one significant issue - about 2 hours into the water, the seal on my bag failed! I happened to notice "too much" of a smell (a good smell, but not one you want from sous vide!) so I checked it, and sure enough, there was juice in the water. I pulled it out (lost all the juice that was in the bag), double-bagged it to be safe (double vacuum sealed), and added extra rub and honey to compensate for the presumed lost flavor from the seal snafu, replaced the water, and put it back in.
> 
> I pulled it from the sous vide after 17 total hours, and I was up against a time crunch and I had a brisket on my BGE, so I stuck it under the broiler to get a bark (worked quite well, actually).
> 
> Ultimately, the pork was still extremely juicy, but it wasn't as flavorful as expected, which I attribute to the compromised seal.
> 
> All in all, I'd do it again. I used a similar process on the brisket (without the seal issue!) and it was absolutely fantastic.


Were you using a vacuum seal bag? That would be frustrating.  The couple of long cooks I've done sous vide had me worried about that, but thankfully it hasn't happened yet.  I'm also sure to clip the top of the bag to the side of my container, above the water level.  However, I'm using a vacuum sealer so I guess there is a chance the bottom seal could fail.


Jeremy1978 said:


> ​It did get a pretty good bark, the smoke flavor was just about perfect. I might drop the temp a little next time, 220-225 so that it has a little more time for the bark but that's about the only thing I would change.


Thanks for the tips.  I'll try that next time.


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## gtkirk

gnatboy911 said:


> Were you using a vacuum seal bag? That would be frustrating.  The couple of long cooks I've done sous vide had me worried about that, but thankfully it hasn't happened yet.  I'm also sure to clip the top of the bag to the side of my container, above the water level.  However, I'm using a vacuum sealer so I guess there is a chance the bottom seal could fail.


Yes, vacuum sealed - and I'd had it happen once before on a long cook, so I've always double sealed ever since then. I also clip the top of the bag to the container - it was the bottom seal that failed. 

The seal actually did also fail on the brisket, but not until I pulled it out of the water (pulled it out and was letting the water drip off, when it failed and some of the liquid pored out - no major loss). I'm actually wondering if there's an issue with my vacuum sealer (a Food Saver). Was talking to a friend who's been sous vide'ing a lot longer than I have, and he's never had a seal fail.


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## gnatboy911

GTKirk said:


> Yes, vacuum sealed - and I'd had it happen once before on a long cook, so I've always double sealed ever since then. I also clip the top of the bag to the container - it was the bottom seal that failed.
> 
> The seal actually did also fail on the brisket, but not until I pulled it out of the water (pulled it out and was letting the water drip off, when it failed and some of the liquid pored out - no major loss). I'm actually wondering if there's an issue with my vacuum sealer (a Food Saver). Was talking to a friend who's been sous vide'ing a lot longer than I have, and he's never had a seal fail.


Man thats a bummer.  Yea sounds like it might be a sealer issue.  The sealer I have is one of the, supposably, commercial grade ones from cabela's.  So far it has worked great.  It double seals every time...it has two heat bars right next to each other.


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## hondabbq

When you did the Sous vide prior to smoke, did you season it like normal or season it before the smoker?


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## hiram123

I put the rub on and then coat it with turbano sugar heavily, smoke at 225 until internal is around 160 or at the stall. Lower temp and the turbano sugar gives it time to develop a bark (usually depending on the size of the butt about 3.5 hrs) then i put ti on a plate in the freezer for about an hour. It never freezes but the juices stiffen up so it's easier to get a good seal.


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## jeremy1978

​I seasoned it before the sous vide


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## gtkirk

My personal opinion is always (probably with rare exceptions I'm not thinking of) season as early as you can. I can't think of a good reason to not season before sous vide (although I did just watch a youtube video from some respectable chefs that does apply the rub after sous vide - I strongly disagree, but I haven't actually experimented to validate my opinion). T


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## disco

Thanks for posting your experiment!

Disco


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## saltysandman

this thread was hard to find. I'm feeling as is we're leaning towards sous vide first then smoke. Those of you who have done both ways, want to chime in?

So far, I see recommended method is

1. prepare butt with rub
2. sous vide 155-165 temp Fahrenheit for 20-24 hours
3. smoke for 3-4 hours around 225 Fahrenheit for a decent bark


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## saltysandman

tried a smoke then sous vide Butt this weekend. turned out good but i miss that bark. this is how i did it. 

1. prepared butt with rub. 
2. smoked at 150 fahrenheit for 3 hours. didn't really form a bark. light mahogany color.
3. vacuumed sealed and sous vide at 165 fahrenheit for 24 hours. saved the au jus from bag. 
4. torched for some carmelization. 
5. pulled butt apart. added back some au jus (maybe a 1/4 cup), salt to taste

came out super moist. had smokey flavor but not a lot. mixed in some BBQ and hot sauce. no complaints whatsoever but like i said, i miss that bark. 

Anyone try to sous vide first and then smoke? I'll try this next time.


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## saltysandman

dls1 said:


> Nice looking pulled pork you have there, gnatboy. Nice job.
> 
> I've cooked pork shoulder for pulled pork combing sous vide and the smoker several times. As you did, I tried smoking first followed by sous vide, but only once. The meat was great, but not so much the bark. The next time around, I reversed the process starting with sous vide then into the smoker. While each method has it's advantages and disadvantages, I definitely prefer the latter, especially when it comes to the consideration of bark formation.
> 
> Starting with sous vide, I cook the shoulder at 165F for 18-20 hours. From there, it's into the smoker set at 250F for 3-4 hours until the IT is 195F-200F, and I get the bark formation that I desire. Very tender, juicy, and smoky meat with the right amount of bark.




ahhhhh, i didn't see this post. i've got to try this way next time


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## gnatboy911

I've seen some guys online who have done a smoke for a few hrs, then sous vide, then smoke some more to achieve the bark.  I haven't tried that 3 step method yet, but most said it worked well.


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## saltysandman

seems like a lot of work. LOL. will just have to try it.


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