# MES Digital Smokers



## kirka62 (May 7, 2013)

Hi,

I am considering purchasing a new model; MES digital smoker either the
[h1]*Masterbuilt 30'' Elite Digital Electric Smoker Manufacturer model #: 20070213.*[/h1]
or the
[h1]Masterbuilt 30'' Electric Smokehouse with Viewing Window Manufacturer model #: 20070312.[/h1]
I am hesitant  as  I have seen several complaints about the digital controllers not working on these models. Could anyone here either confirm or deny this? Is one model more likely to be hassle free likely than the other? If there is a problem does MES stand behind these units for service. I am guessing they both have 800 watt elements is that sufficient power for the 30" models?

Thanks

Kurt


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## redster (May 7, 2013)

I have the one with the window and love it, no issues thus far.


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## geerock (May 7, 2013)

Both have the same control units and both are the new generation which have had some problems.  Masterbuilt has been aware of this and have responded with good custmer service but...... I went over three months for my 40 and finally had to give up as they kept sending me bad units.  Having said that when these things are working they are great units.  I had an older mes 40 for a few years and loved it.  As for the element 800 watts works well in the 30.  Hope you get a good one.


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

I have not ordered yet but I thnk I am going to get the all SS masterbuilt with the window. But the controls are on the top..
Has there been many complaints with it?


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## Bearcarver (May 7, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> I have not ordered yet but I thnk I am going to get the all SS masterbuilt with the window. But the controls are on the top..
> Has there been many complaints with it?


That's the one I have had for 2 years----Works Great, but needs an AMNPS for Perfect Smoking.

Bear


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> That's the one I have had for 2 years----Works Great, but needs an AMNPS for Perfect Smoking.
> 
> 
> Bear



Yep.. :)
I'm going to order from here thou..
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/s...0151_10051_638908_-1?ICID=CRT:0263-01775-2008


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## Bearcarver (May 7, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> Yep.. :)
> I'm going to order from here thou..
> http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/s...0151_10051_638908_-1?ICID=CRT:0263-01775-2008


That's Great!!!

That's the one!!!

Same price I paid two years ago!!!

And only $15 shipping!!!

You better suck that up quick!!!

Bear


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

I DID :) but I wish I could get a extended warrantee for it.. It's a 2 1/2 drive to the closest one for me.. :(


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## sound1 (May 7, 2013)

With Bear on this one...the MES with a AMNPS is a perfect pairing. Like anything else, hearing good news vs bad....bad news always comes out fast and furious, good seems to lurk in the background, but I would be curious to see what the actual percentage of bad units that MES has. I'm willing to bet it is much lower than most would think by reading around places like this.


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## geerock (May 7, 2013)

The one on the link is not the gen 2.  And its not a 20070312.....which is a good thing.  Thats the tried and true 0311 40 inch with remote, top vent, and 1200 watt element.  Why they got off this design is beyond me but snatch it up...  grab an AMAZN smoke generator like the guys say and you will have a great set and forget smoker that produces fine q.  All the best to you.


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

Thanks!!:yahoo:
my DH ask me how it was going to last in the open elements with it  being electric on the deck..
I bought a cover for it!! 
My sister in law leaves hers on her deck and has NO problems..

He's SO old fashioned.. 
Sorry guys.. You all are the smart ones here..
I'm not :yahoo:


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## Bearcarver (May 7, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't tell you how that works. Mine is under roof, and I keep a cover on it.

Don't know how good my cover would be in the rain & snow.

Bear


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## kirka62 (May 7, 2013)

geerock said:


> The one on the link is not the gen 2. And its not a 20070312.....which is a good thing. Thats the tried and true 0311 40 inch with remote, top vent, and 1200 watt element. Why they got off this design is beyond me but snatch it up... grab an AMAZN smoke generator like the guys say and you will have a great set and forget smoker that produces fine q. All the best to you.


Yes thanks,

that's my question its the 2nd generation smokers I am inquiring about. I heard many good things about the previous generation. I see the 2nd gen at BPS and have a bunch of gift cards but several of the reviews there seem to say they didnt work when they got them. 

Thanks

Kurt


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

I think we need a poll on the MES models.. One that leave them out and covered up and then one that has them under cover..
:grilling_smilie:


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> I can't tell you how that works. Mine is under roof, and I keep a cover on it.
> Don't know how good my cover would be in the rain & snow.
> 
> 
> Bear




I bought this cover:


I can always put on my inclosed screen porch because the desk ison the side of it when the weather gets bad..


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> I bought this cover:
> 
> 
> I can always put on my inclosed screen porch because the desk ison the side of it when the weather gets bad..



Darn spellcheck.. LOL

The deck is right outside the screen porch. :)


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## Bearcarver (May 7, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> I bought this cover:
> 
> 
> I can always put on my inclosed screen porch because the desk ison the side of it when the weather gets bad..


That looks like a better cover than mine. Maybe someone who keeps theirs out from under a roof can tell you how it works.

I'd hate to let the digital controls wet. I guess some remove it & take it indoors---I never did.

Bear


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

I am wondering which is better.. Electric or gas smoker..
Ummm..
:biggrin:


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## Bearcarver (May 7, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> I am wondering which is better.. Electric or gas smoker..
> Ummm..


Different personalities & different situations call for different kinds of smokers.

For me it's electric, without a close second.

Bear


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## tjnamtiw (May 7, 2013)

Posted onto a thread in another forum that I finally tried to do a pulled pork Boston butt on my MES 40 second generation with window today.  I AM NOW A TRUE BELIEVER!  OMG, is that gooood.  I used a rosemary and brown sugar rub that I found on the internet.  Wow, is it good!  I smoked it at 250 degrees for 7 hours to get to 195 degrees.  At that point, I stuck a fork in it and turned it 90 degrees and it shredded.  Also it was pulling away from the bone so that was a good sign.  It took no time to shred the 8 pounder and now it's chow time!!!

Yes, I FINALLY remembered to document it!  :)













tn_IMGP2437.JPG



__ tjnamtiw
__ May 7, 2013


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## mcgallimore (May 7, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> Different personalities & different situations call for different kinds of smokers.
> For me it's electric, without a close second.
> 
> 
> Bear


If this is not what I want I will return it and either get a gas smoker or the Smokin it 3 
:sausage:


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## kirka62 (May 8, 2013)

Hi,

My buddy has an older style MES smoker he leaves covered but out to the weather here in Boston. It has not done well at all and the hinges are rusting badly he says (after about 3 seasons). I am not surprised. That has also been my experience with grills left out all summer under cover around here. I suspect the cover my hold the moisture in (even when its sunny out) so maybe taking off the cover when the weather is good and leaving it on only when the weather is bad may help. That way it gets a chance to dry out. 

Aside from that I dont get a real warm feeling about the 2nd generation MES smokers from what I have read. Seems like if they work everyone likes em but I get the feeling its a crap shoot whether or not they will work. Too bad I like the design and would be perfect happy to buy it w/out any controller and build my own. So I am still kind of on the fence about them. If I get one I will post my results here.

Kurt


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## smoke slinger (May 8, 2013)

I have the 2nd gen 40" with the window. Bought about 3 weeks ago at Sam's Club for $299. I have done St Louis style ribs and a meatloaf on it so far. The meat probe that comes built in is only about 3 degrees off from what my Maverick was reading. So far it has worked great and couldnt be happier. I keep mine in the garage and will be putting a smoke stack on it and venting it through the roof so I will have a permenant area for it.


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## Bearcarver (May 8, 2013)

kirka62 said:


> Hi,
> 
> *My buddy has an older style MES smoker he leaves covered but out to the weather here in Boston. It has not done well at all and the hinges are rusting badly he says (after about 3 seasons).* I am not surprised. That has also been my experience with grills left out all summer under cover around here. I suspect the cover my hold the moisture in (even when its sunny out) so maybe taking off the cover when the weather is good and leaving it on only when the weather is bad may help. That way it gets a chance to dry out.
> 
> Kurt


Yup, that must be one of the first things to go. My Son had a Cookshack, and paid quite a bit for it. He left it outside for a few years, covered, and the hinges rusted completely off.

Bear


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## mcgallimore (May 8, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> Yup, that must be one of the first things to go. My Son had a Cookshack, and paid quite a bit for it. He left it outside for a few years, covered, and the hinges rusted completely off.
> 
> 
> Bear



Now I don't know what to do..
My open car garage don't have a outlet :(
My desk is right outside my door of my screened in sun room..
Guess I could move it,in and out with the weather..
Or maybe I should cancel the order and get propane which I don't want to do :(
We put our windows in on our porch in the winter or if it raining... 
I did get a 4 year warrantee with it..
I just may send it back..

I'm so confused.. I don't want to pay that kind of money and it rust out like my old grll/smoker did.
:(


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## Bearcarver (May 8, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> Now I don't know what to do..
> My open car garage don't have a outlet :(
> My desk is right outside my door of my screened in sun room..
> Guess I could move it,in and out with the weather..
> ...


Well, you're making me feel like I'm begging you to get the MES 40. I only want you to get what you're happy with. You can get a propane smoker, but if it was me, I'd get an outlet to the garage. But that's me.

Propane smokers rust out too, just like propane grills.

Bear


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## kirka62 (May 8, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> Well, you're making me feel like I'm begging you to get the MES 40. I only want you to get what you're happy with. You can get a propane smoker, but if it was me, I'd get an outlet to the garage. But that's me.
> 
> Propane smokers rust out too, just like propane grills.
> 
> Bear


LOL thats a good one Bear. No I am just being cautious. I really do want an electric one and have no interest in a propane smoker. I do have a cabinet type charcoal smoker that I like for doing ribs I just figured electric would be a whole lot easier for long runs. I am interested in a 30" model, I had a 55 gal drum offset I built but it was just too big unless I was having a big party. I do appreciate your advice I will stop waffling around and just order it tonight! It should take about 2 weeks to arrive and I will post my results as soon as I get it.

Kurt


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## Bearcarver (May 8, 2013)

kirka62 said:


> LOL thats a good one Bear. No I am just being cautious. I really do want an electric one and have no interest in a propane smoker. I do have a cabinet type charcoal smoker that I like for doing ribs I just figured electric would be a whole lot easier for long runs. I am interested in a 30" model, I had a 55 gal drum offset I built but it was just too big unless I was having a big party. I do appreciate your advice I will stop waffling around and just order it tonight! It should take about 2 weeks to arrive and I will post my results as soon as I get it.
> 
> Kurt


That reply was to "mcgallimore".

I wasn't accusing you of waffling.

I don't do that kind of thing.

Bear


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## mcgallimore (May 8, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> Well, you're making me feel like I'm begging you to get the MES 40. I only want you to get what you're happy with. You can get a propane smoker, but if it was me, I'd get an outlet to the garage. But that's me.
> Propane smokers rust out too, just like propane grills.
> 
> 
> Bear



Gotcha :)
Thanks!


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## mcgallimore (May 8, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> Gotcha :)
> Thanks!


Sorry about that Bear I didn't mean to..
I'm a typical woman and can't make her mind up ;)
I'm just going to see about getting a outlet box and outlet put in my covered car garage.. It's open.


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## Bearcarver (May 8, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> Sorry about that Bear I didn't mean to..
> I'm a typical woman and can't make her mind up ;)
> I'm just going to see about getting a outlet box and outlet put in my covered car garage.. It's open.


No problem-----We'll get you fixed up yet !!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Probably good to have an outlet out there anyway.

Bear


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## makshak (May 8, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> Sorry about that Bear I didn't mean to..
> I'm a typical woman and can't make her mind up ;)
> I'm just going to see about getting a outlet box and outlet put in my covered car garage.. It's open.


I bought the MasterBuilt 40 about 6 months ago. This thing is EASY to use to get great Q. Take Bear's advice: add the outlet to your garage as close to the door as possible so that you can use an extension cord and roll the MES outside for the smoke.


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## mcgallimore (May 8, 2013)

I have decided to leave it in my screen sunroom and roll it out on the desk when I'm using it.. I can even open the door and put it right outside my sunroom... I have outlets inside and outside so I think that will work well..

Untill I can get a outlet put in...
I have had a tv in that screened room for over 10 year and still works.. No moisture can get to it when we have the windows in.. 
:sausage:


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## kirka62 (May 9, 2013)

The outlet in the garage close to the door is a great idea. I put a panel out there years ago so there are no shortage of outles. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Kurt


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## smoke slinger (May 9, 2013)

Dont know if it does really do any damage, but I do know the owners manual does not recommend use of a extension cord on these smokers.


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## mcgallimore (May 9, 2013)

I am not going use one because I have outlets where it will be sitting either side of my wall of my screen room and then on the desk also :)

:sausage:


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## kirka62 (May 9, 2013)

I suspect part the problem with extension cords may be that often they could be of a smaller wire gauge than the actual circuit itself so its has a lower ampacity. Then take a long wire run (from a house out to a detached garage plus say a 100 ft extension cord) you could start getting voltage drop which only further increases the amperage draw.


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## kirka62 (May 9, 2013)

So I ordered the 
[h1]Masterbuilt 30'' Electric Smokehouse with Viewing Window[/h1]
2nd gen. model : 20070312.

It should be ready for me to pick up at BPS  in about a week.

I am hoping to do the trial run with a brisket, after I season the smoker. I have heard some people will light a couple of charcoal briquettes at the start to give a smoke ring, is this what you all usually do?

Thanks

kurt


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## Bearcarver (May 9, 2013)

kirka62 said:


> So I ordered the
> [h1]Masterbuilt 30'' Electric Smokehouse with Viewing Window[/h1]
> 2nd gen. model : 20070312.
> 
> ...


If you're asking me----No, I don't get smoke rings----They're neat, but they're really all show.

I just use one of my Amazing collection.

Bear


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## kirka62 (May 9, 2013)

Thanks Bear,

Sounds like I need to look into the [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]AMNPS. I hear a lot of good things about them![/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Kurt[/color]


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## boomboom1111 (May 14, 2013)

thanks guys saw this post yesterday and drove to academy and added a new mes to my smoking line up now have electric and a gas smoker. thanks for posting the great deal at academy


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## smoke slinger (May 14, 2013)

Is the one at Academy the 2nd generation and what was there price if ya dont mind me asking. Thanks


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## Bearcarver (May 14, 2013)

boomboom1111 said:


> thanks guys saw this post yesterday and drove to academy and added a new mes to my smoking line up now have electric and a gas smoker. thanks for posting the great deal at academy


That's great BoomBoom!!!!

Now you're cookin' with gas or electric!!!

Bear


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## kirka62 (May 25, 2013)

Hi

Got my new smoker last weekend. 2nd gen 30" MES. I seasoned it Thursday and it ran for 4 hours without a hitch. I am not positive but believe the meat thermo and the internal temp thermo are 2 different sensors. When I checked them (at 275 F) they agreed within 1 F which I was happy to see. I have not checked the calibration on the meat thermo but will do so with boiling water today. I plan on doing a set of pork butt-boneless ribs tommorrow.

Kurt


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## themole (May 25, 2013)

kirka62 said:


> I suspect part the problem with extension cords may be that often they could be of a smaller wire gauge than the actual circuit itself so its has a lower ampacity. Then take a long wire run (from a house out to a detached garage plus say a 100 ft extension cord) you could start getting voltage drop which only further increases the amperage draw.


Kirka62,

This tid bit of information tells me even if your new MES does give you problems, you should have an easy go at repairing it. The problems have mostly been due to faulty/ cheap wiring and lugs at the element and control board. I already have quality Nichol plated replacement lugs and # 12 copper stranded wire at the ready, just waiting on a failure.

There is already a nice write up on doing this repair, with pictures on this site. Just do a search and bookmark it for the future.


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## kirka62 (May 25, 2013)

Hey thanks!

Thats great news. I have done my share of control wiring and have no shortage of # 12 stranded. 

kurt


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## themole (May 25, 2013)

kirka62 said:


> Hey thanks!
> 
> Thats great news. I have done my share of control wiring and have no shortage of # 12 stranded.
> 
> kurt


Well then, as we say down here in the south, you're sittin in high cotton. lol


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## kirka62 (May 26, 2013)

Ok

Finished my first set of boneless ribs. So here are my impressions.....

1) I noticed that it ran really humid and a fair amount of water ran down the door while it was running and leaked out onto the floor. 

I checked the unit to be sure it was level but this seemed to make no difference, so I emptied the water pan and replaced it which ended the problem.

2) The finished ribs had more bark than I usually get.

It could be my dry rub (this one has brown sugar added) but I have used this one before so I don't think so. I suspect I need to add less chips next time. This time I added 1 cup, 4xs, over the ~ 6 hours. Also I did keep the top vent almost fully closed so maybe I need to fool with that setting.

3) The ribs (boneless/ boston butt strips) came out good and I was happy to see they were not dry. Everyone liked them and they went fast which is usually a good sign. 

4) The taste was slightly different than I usually get with my charcoal smoker and my previous offset drum smoker. Its hard to put a finger on it. It was not better or worse just slightly different.

Overall I am very happy with the unit and the ease of use is a big step up! I think I need to spend some quality time with my new toy to dial it in. So..

Tomorrow I will give beer can chicken a try. This time I will add the chips 1 time and open the vent maybe 1/2 way.

ps here is a pic of the finished ribs













IMG_7887.JPG



__ kirka62
__ May 26, 2013


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## geerock (May 26, 2013)

On the gen 2 you might want to try the vent fully open.  There ain't much of an opening on that thing anyway. I actually dremelled out the opening to twice the size to get good flow and it solved the water issue and allowed me to use a pellet tube smoke generator so I didn't have to load the chip tray.  It wouldn't stay lit very well with the vent the way it comes out of the box.  Good luck.


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## matt22556 (May 26, 2013)

I agree totally, electric, and I love my MES. For me personally I don't think I would ever consider gas. To expensive to operate, and always a need for an extra tank. Electric never has that issue. The question should be electric or charcoal/woodburning? There are definitely advantages to those but a much steeper learning curve, and attention to detail. For me electric for simple home use ROCKS!!!! Smoking a Boston Butt as we speak, pulled pork on its way thanks to my MES. The MES has made it not only practical for the everyday man to smoke food, but helps the everyday man smoke good to great food. 

Just my 2 cents


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## wjordan52 (May 26, 2013)

In the smoking hobby, as in any hobby, opinions differ on how to achieve the best results. Experienced smokers have their favorite method of achieving the results that they prefer. New smokers have to experiment, guided by suggestions from this forum and other sources, to find their 'perfect' way of cooking and their idea of the 'ideal' smoker. 

I personally believe the choice in smoking fuel has as much to do with what the hobbyist enjoys doing while smoking as the end result. If tending the fire, watching the smoker temp, and generally being with the smoker while it's doing it's thing is fun for you, then a charcoal or stick burner will probably bring you the most satisfaction. If you're convinced that 'real' Q can only be produced by burning seasoned hard wood, again I would advise against electric or gas. But if (like me) you prefer to (or have to) do other things while the smoker more or less takes care of itself, then IMHO electric smokers fit the bill quite nicely.

There's much to learn before you can expect to produce delicious and consistent results from any smoker. Since stick and charcoal burners have a steeper learning curve for the beginner (again, my opinion) I think that a relatively inexpensive watt burner is a good place to start. Once you become more comfortable with using rubs, brines, different wood chips, and all the other variables that influence the outcome of your smokes, you will be better equipped to make a decision on which smoker type most suits you. After all as much as we all love positive reviews of what we cook, the bottom line is it's what YOU enjoy and feel most comfortable with that counts.

I hope all of you have a happy Memorial Day holiday. And please take a few moments to remember those who make our freedom possible.


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## wjordan52 (May 26, 2013)

.


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## kirka62 (May 28, 2013)

> On the gen 2 you might want to try the vent fully open. There ain't much of an opening on that thing anyway. I actually dremelled out the opening to twice the size to get good flow and it solved the water issue and allowed me to use a pellet tube smoke generator so I didn't have to load the chip tray.


Hi Geerock,

Yep that solved it. I opened the vent fully and it ran like a champ. The water issue was solved and I was happy with the amount of smoked taste  with the ber can chicken. (sorry no Qview this time).

Thanks everyone

Kurt


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## tk427 (Jul 11, 2013)

Just curious, as i'm looking at the MES smoker as well. How many boston butts can you do at a time?  I'm considering the 30" and the 40" however, I can't tell how much meat I can get in the smoker based on pictures, and I haven't found a forum that flat out says, "Hey, you can get 2, 7-8lb butts in a 30" and 4 in a 40".  

Can anyone help me with this? 

Thanks!


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## papacurtis (Jul 11, 2013)

I can get six 8 lb'ers in my mes30, but it's a little tight. My bro in law can get 8 in his mes40, with room for some other items. If the xtra $$ are not a prob, i would go for the 40. Kinda wish i had..


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## Bearcarver (Jul 11, 2013)

PapaCurtis said:


> I can get six 8 lb'ers in my mes30, but it's a little tight. My bro in law can get 8 in his mes40, with room for some other items. If the xtra $$ are not a prob, i would go for the 40. Kinda wish i had..


What Papa said !!!

Plus if the extra money is a problem, imagine how much more it cost me, when I bought the MES 30 first, then found it to be too small, and had to lay out the money for the MES 40 !!!!

Bear


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## tk427 (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanks Papa and Bear, this really helps me out.


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## smoke slinger (Jul 11, 2013)

tk427 said:


> Just curious, as i'm looking at the MES smoker as well. How many boston butts can you do at a time?  I'm considering the 30" and the 40" however, I can't tell how much meat I can get in the smoker based on pictures, and I haven't found a forum that flat out says, "Hey, you can get 2, 7-8lb butts in a 30" and 4 in a 40".
> 
> Can anyone help me with this?
> 
> Thanks!


If you got the money for the 40" I would get it. I bought the 30" first and then after seeing the 40" I knew I had to have it.....lol.... so I got the 40" and was lucky to sell the 30". If you have a Sam's Club nearby they have the 2nd Gen 40' for $299 the last time I was in there. Hope it helps.Craig


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## domapoi (Jul 12, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> I bought this cover:
> 
> 
> I can always put on my inclosed screen porch because the desk ison the side of it when the weather gets bad..


Wow, that is a fancy cover for sure. All I have is the cheaper black one that is made by MasterBuilt. I keep my (older model than yours) smoker with the top digital controls out on the open deck year round. Although it never snows in San Diego, it does rain and I live on the coast which gets a lot of salty ocean air mist all the time. Never had any problems with my controls (which are in the same place as your new unit has.

My only warning to you is to "hold on to your seat"! You are about to have the best smoking/eating experience of your life.


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## kirka62 (Jul 12, 2013)

Well some time has passed and I would say I am VERY happy with the way the 30" has performed.
However if out of the gate your already wondering  how many butts you can cram into the 30" I have to agree with all the others, go with the 40" model.  Just my 2 cents worth :biggrin:


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## goose57 (Jul 12, 2013)

I have had mine for 18 months,30" digital; use with AMPS, we like the pellets. I have smoked cheese, salmon, butts, ribs, CRS, loins, briskets, beef roasts, steaks ,chicken, turkeys (whole and parts). All have turned out great.. 99% of time I use Jeffs rub.

I keep mine in  the garage, I have put it on a cart, idea I got from the forums. MES Mods.

Ron


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## goose57 (Jul 12, 2013)

I have had mine for 18 months,30" digital; use with AMPS, we like the pellets. I have smoked cheese, salmon, butts, ribs, CRS, loins, briskets, beef roasts, steaks ,chicken, turkeys (whole and parts). All have turned out great.. 99% of time I use Jeffs rub.

I keep mine in  the garage, I have put it on a cart, idea I got from the forums. MES Mods.

Ron


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## daricksta (Jul 12, 2013)

I own the Masterbuilt 20070106 30" electric digital smoker which is an older model. I didn't need the glass window so this model suits me fine. Have had no problems with it over the 15 months that I've owned it. I think it's great. I do use a second thermometer to calibrate the one that is inside the smoker.


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## bdskelly (Jul 12, 2013)

Kirk

I have an MES that was even an earlier model that Bear's. Its a 40" Glass door 1200 watt. I believe its a first generation but not sure. It's got a digital wedged shape controller but no remote. ..Been around so long it's like one of the family now.  Lot's of great Sunday dinners have come out of it.  

After a number of years the controller head started acting up a bit.  I called Masterbuilt to BUY a replacement .  They sent it to me for free even though my unit was years out of warranty.  So on your question about customer support, I'd have to tell you they are the best I've had. 

Bear is right on about the Maverick remote temp unit.  You will want one of those if you want super accuracy of your smoker and food temps. (And you should)

Like almost ALL brands of smoker reviews you will read on this site, the accuracy of the temp probes could be more accurate than they are. 

Brian


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## Bearcarver (Jul 13, 2013)

BDSkelly said:


> Kirk
> 
> *I have an MES that was even an earlier model that Bear's. Its a 40" Glass door 1200 watt. *I believe its a first generation but not sure. It's got a digital wedged shape controller but no remote. ..Been around so long it's like one of the family now.  Lot's of great Sunday dinners have come out of it.
> 
> ...


LOL---That's the one my Son has.

First I bought an MES 30 (black---no window) for myself.

Then I bought my Son an MES 40 (black with window, but no remote).

Then my Son bought my MES 40 (All SS with window & remote).

Since that he bought himself a Black Egg and a Big Green Egg.

I told him not to get me one of them!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Bear


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## mcgallimore (Jul 13, 2013)

DOMAPOI said:


> Wow, that is a fancy cover for sure. All I have is the cheaper black one that is made by MasterBuilt. I keep my (older model than yours) smoker with the top digital controls out on the open deck year round. Although it never snows in San Diego, it does rain and I live on the coast which gets a lot of salty ocean air mist all the time. Never had any problems with my controls (which are in the same place as your new unit has.
> 
> My only warning to you is to "hold on to your seat"! You are about to have the best smoking/eating experience of your life.



It's been wonderful so far :sausage:
TY
:grilling_smilie:


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## bdskelly (Jul 13, 2013)

Bear... Dang! I have 2 sons and have had to buy my all my smokers!  Lucky guy!  LOL


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## Bearcarver (Jul 13, 2013)

BDSkelly said:


> Bear... Dang! I have 2 sons and have had to buy my all my smokers!  Lucky guy!  LOL


LOL---He's a Great Son !!!

He bought me a brand new 2008 Dodge Ram for my 60th Birthday. He said he was afraid my '94 was going to fall apart in front of a big truck on the highway!!!

I had been keeping it, because with my health, I figured the '94 would outlive me!!!

Somebody did a Helluva Job raising that kid!!! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Bear


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## foamheart (Jul 13, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> Somebody did a Helluva Job raising that kid!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No doubt Mrs. Bear..........<chuckles>


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## drayspencer (Jul 13, 2013)

tk427 said:


> Just curious, as i'm looking at the MES smoker as well. How many boston butts can you do at a time?  I'm considering the 30" and the 40" however, I can't tell how much meat I can get in the smoker based on pictures, and I haven't found a forum that flat out says, "Hey, you can get 2, 7-8lb butts in a 30" and 4 in a 40".
> 
> Can anyone help me with this?
> 
> Thanks!


I just smoked 4 - 8 pound Boston butts on my MES40 on 2 shelves only and it worked out fine. The folks at work finished 2 pans full of pulled pork at pot-luck day. I was all smiles!!! I have never seen a bone slide out of a butt that easy and clean. I left the bones in the pan with the finished product to tease all the cooks in the cafeteria. Foiled them overnight and was up every 2 hours to make sure all was well. Last time I worried that much after midnight was when my daughter went to the prom. This smoker is well worth the money!


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## jimtn (Jul 13, 2013)

I have the 30' Master Built with the widow and with the digital control with the remote. One month old. I can tell you that I have smoked 2 chickens, one brisket, 2 pork shoulders and two slabs of ribs. And just for fun I smoked some winners./// need more trial and error with amount of smoke and time in smoker. Bottom line is the smoker is easy to use and and I would not have one without the digital control. My smoker is approx. 70' from my house (at my work shop) and I can monitor the internal temp of the meat as well as the temp inside the smoker from my recliner in the den. Not that I am lazy, it just means that I don't have to keep going out to check the temps. As to the accuracy of the digital raedings they have been right on when I double check with another temp instrument.  The meat comes out like it is suppose to. As to you next question about "standing behind their product?" I did have a slight problem with some paint coming off. These people have been the absolute greatest people to deal with. They intend to make you happy. I hope this helps.


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## hoggydog (Jul 13, 2013)

I bought the MES 40 from Sam's. It didn't work when I first got it out of the box. The heating element would not get hot. I called customer service and explained what was going on. They were very responsive and shipped me a new heating element. I opened the back to change the element and found that the shrink tape at the connection was not tight and the leads pulled off. I cut off the tape and reconnected the leads and everything worked fine. With that said, my experience with Masterbuilt was outstanding in a day and age where great customer service is hard to find. I would recommend the MES.


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## rps462 (Jul 13, 2013)

I've had a MES 30" for a little over a month and I love it! I've had a hard time keeping temperature consistent and have noticed that the internal temperature isn't always accurately represented by the temp on the display. I figure, though, that with a little trial and error and just using a good ole regular thermometer I'll be in good shape eventually. Good luck with it!!


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## james parker (Jul 14, 2013)

I have had a 30" MES for 2 years and haven't had any problems with it.  The only complaint I have is that the temperature gauge is not accurate.  I have a Maverick 732 I use with it and it reads about 20 degrees cooler than the one on the unit.  I like it though, because it is basically trouble free smoking.  Just set it and go watch TV or whatever.  You just have to keep it smoking for as long as you need to.  I recommend it but I would definitely purchase a remote thermometer like the Maverick 732 to go with it.  I have kept mine outside with a cover on it all the time I have had it.


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## gimmeharmony (Jul 15, 2013)

I have the MES 30 (digital) and use the AMNPS.  I have a small 4" fan that I use to create better airflow at the chip loader and a homemade stack I put over the top vent.  Works GREAT!!!!


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## daricksta (Jul 15, 2013)

I got my MES 30 in April of last year and I bought a sturdy hand truck and two big bungee cords from Home Depot and that's what I keep my smokehouse (under its cover) on inside my garage. The bungee cords tightly affix the MES to the hand truck which makes it easy to roll it up and down a small hill between my garage and backyard. When I want to use it I wheel it out into my backyard and place it on top of a small plastic resin table near the power outlet on the outside of my house. This system has worked great.


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## ats32 (Jul 16, 2013)

For anybody in cold climates and have a garage/shed with a window in it, I  use a portable window dryer vent hooked up to my MES40 in the winter. Looks like the picture below and the smoke will exhaust out the window. The only smoke you get in your garage or wherever you have it will be when you open the door.













D0507344-0-large.jpg



__ ats32
__ Jul 16, 2013


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## smoking in nye (Jul 16, 2013)

Where did you buy the Masterbuilt with a 4 year warranty?. I had to practically beg them to sell me a 2 year warranty for my new 40" 2nd gen smoker and that cost me $99. They only come with only a 90 day warranty.The first one I got didn't make it though the "seasoning" process and crapped out. Masterbuilt promptly replaced it with a new one and that's when I decided to get an extended warranty. Now I am wating for a replacement remote control as it stopped working or "communicating" with the smoker. Three cheers for all those wonderfully made products coming from China.


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## bug975 (Jul 17, 2013)

I have a mes not sure what model. I am still getting use to it but love it. I keep mine on the porch and havent bought a cover for it yet but I do keep a garbage bag 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  over the top of it.

Forgot to say that it is a digital one.


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## russg (Jul 17, 2013)

*mcgallimore*

I bought the same one.  It is a little tight but not to the point it is un-useable.

Had in in rain and it stood up very well.  I am happy.


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## tk427 (Aug 3, 2013)

Ok so I ended up buying the Master Forge 30" digital smoker at Lowes for $179. So far so good. I seasoned then smoked some brats just to get a feel for everything. Next I loaded it up with two 3.5lb flat briskest and two 7.5lb pork butts. Those turned out very moist and tender but since I smoked them in shallow foil pans not a lot of bark :( Today I threw in a 7.75 picnic and I'm going the no foil method. I can honestly say I'm pleased with the results so far. Nice bark, and smelling good. I'm in the middle of the stall right now, so no q-view until the temp starts rising again. I haven't purchased the AMNPS yet, but generating smoke hasn't been an issue yet with this smoker. Chips last over an hour and because I'm mopping every hour anyway it's just as easy to dump more in after I mop. So far I'm thrilled with the results.


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## old sarge (Aug 3, 2013)

Sounds like you have a winner.


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## daricksta (Aug 3, 2013)

I own the MES 30 and every time I open the door to mop or baste or to take out the AMNPS to re-light it and then put it back in I lose about 20-30 degrees of heat and have to wait about 20 minutes for the smoker to return to the target temp. Do you have this same problem with the Master Forge when mopping every hour?


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## tk427 (Aug 3, 2013)

My Master Forge does loose about 20-30 degrees when i mop, but gets back up to heat in 5 minutes or so. It has an 800 watt element and come back up to heat fast.


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## tk427 (Aug 3, 2013)

Temp, it comes back up to temp fast


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## smoking in nye (Aug 4, 2013)

You should have got the 40" which has 1200 watts. After closing door,  it's back up to temp well under 5 mins.  Twenty or thirty minutes seems way too long. could be an element or controller problem and maybe a conversation with MB customer service is in order. Trust me they Masterbuilts' do screw up. I know this as I am in the process of sending back my second unit. Don't let your 90 warranty lapse without resolving any problems. I paid them $99 to get a 2 year warranty and they may wish they never sold it to me. 

Bill


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## tamathumper (Aug 4, 2013)

I open/close the door as quickly as possible, and if the temp drops I close the vent for a few minutes and it comes right back up.


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## tjnamtiw (Aug 4, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> LOL---He's a Great Son !!!
> 
> He bought me a brand new 2008 Dodge Ram for my 60th Birthday. He said he was afraid my '94 was going to fall apart in front of a big truck on the highway!!!
> 
> ...


Darn, can I adopt him!  I need a new truck!!!


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## cekkk (Aug 4, 2013)

Picked up my MES 30" 20070910 last night and opened it this morning.  The only real assembly remaining was putting on the digital controls, which was the mfr's only real opportunity to leave out a part, as the rest of the unit came pre-assembled.  And they took advantage of the opportunity.  The "hardware kit" was nowhere to be found, and I went through every scrap of material in the box.  But I went ahead and hooked it up and will find some screws tomorrow.  I was a little surprised too, that they missed the screws.  After all, it must be an upscale product, as I noted that it's imported!

All the interior parts were present and fit properly.  The unit's feet were right on for level out of the box.  However, the back of the unit was not flush with the top right at the point of one of the missing screws.  A bit of insulation shows.  If the screw can snug it up that will cure that flaw.

I seasoned it carefully following Jeff's instructions, which differed only slightly from those in the manual.  He was right on.

I just ordered the Maverick late last week and hope it arrives tomorrow, as I'd like to get smoking.  After the 3 hour break in was concluded I put one of those $6 round oven thermometers in it and let it sit at least 15 minutes.  When I opened the door to check it showed nearly 200.  The smoker's digital readout was reading 205.  That has me anxious to get a Maverick reading, as that oven thermometer is consistently 50 degrees low in the oven.  But that is at temps of 350 and  up, so it may be right on at this low temp.  We'll see.

The unit's temp readout was pretty consistent between 272 and 275.  But if that controls the heating element and it's way off, well...

I do have one question that maybe can be answered here without  starting a new thread.  Was there anything else other than a pair of screws in that missing "hardware package"?  I will call the company Monday morning, but I'm curious today.

Meatloaf & brats tomorrow, with or without the new thermometer!


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## bosox20 (Aug 4, 2013)

Hi. I have the same smoker. Nope all that came was the screws to mount the digital control box.


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## bitterman (Aug 4, 2013)

I have the same smoker as well.  I thought they didn't give me the screws as well but I double checked and the screws were there.  There was so much packing I missed them the first time :D

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## cekkk (Aug 4, 2013)

Thanks, guys.  I went thru the packing pretty carefully, looking for them.  But I'll bet they are hidden in there somewhere.  Maybe I should go take another look.  Why couldn't they just be taped to the device?


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## bitterman (Aug 4, 2013)

They were in a pretty small plastic bag.  And I agree they maybe should have been taped right to the control box or maybe put in a large plastic bag with the owners manual, etc.

I would also recommend getting the Maverick thermometer.  I've found the MES to be up to 15 degrees off at times.

This was my first smoker but it has worked well so far!

Enjoy!

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## bitterman (Aug 4, 2013)

Just saw you did order the Maverick...definitely nice to have.  Also don't forget the AMNPS!

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## cekkk (Aug 4, 2013)

Sure enough, I found them.  Due to the deformed back panel the "passenger" side holes are not lining up.  I think I'll just drill another hole in the back panel at an angle and live with it.

I googled AMNPS.  Sounds like something I may want in the future.  For now I'm still waiting to smoke my first food.  This smoking thing reminds me of my first boat.  By the time I bought all the stuff we "had" to have, we couldn't afford enough gas to get out of the slip!


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## rtbbq2 (Aug 4, 2013)

Looks awesome..........


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## daricksta (Aug 5, 2013)

Wow, my MES also has an 800 watt heating element but it takes a lot longer for it to heat back up again. Don't know why since I don't see any smoke leaking thru the doors or anywhere other than the top vent.


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## kbwilhelm (Aug 5, 2013)

I have the 40" with the window and we love it. No issues to report.


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## daricksta (Aug 5, 2013)

The 30-inch was in my price range, the 40-inch way out of it. I've read the MBs do have a thermostat accuracy problem but I've had mine over a year and has done this from the start. I'll write customer service and see what they're willing to do.

Wrote them a couple of days ago; no answer yet.


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## Bearcarver (Aug 5, 2013)

cekkk said:


> Sure enough, I found them.  Due to the deformed back panel the "passenger" side holes are not lining up.  I think I'll just drill another hole in the back panel at an angle and live with it.
> 
> I googled AMNPS.  Sounds like something I may want in the future.  For now I'm still waiting to smoke my first food.  This smoking thing reminds me of my first boat.  By the time I bought all the stuff we "had" to have, we couldn't afford enough gas to get out of the slip!


LOL----I used to have a "Skeeter" Bass Boat, and I learned a Boat is a Hole in the water that you throw Money into!!!

Bear


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## cekkk (Aug 5, 2013)

Bear said: 

LOL----I used to have a "Skeeter" Bass Boat, and I learned a Boat is a Hole in the water that you throw Money into!!!

OMG!  I always tell the story about the bean bag ashtrays.  Thirty years ago you could get them for a buck, but at the retail Boats U.S. store up on Hwy 2 I found them for $5!  Of course, the bag had anchors or some such on it.  So for kicks I just now tried to find their stores.  Looks like they're just into insurance, or have a connection to a West Marine.  Anyway, sho 'nuf, the bean bag ashtrays?  They gottem.  And only $14.49!!!!!!!


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## tamathumper (Aug 5, 2013)

Cooked a 3.69 pound pork shoulder yesterday, but it took about 9 hours!  6 hours at 225 and three more at 250, to reach an IT of 205.  It should have taken only 5.5. hours, so I suspect the temperature readout is fishy already, after only three uses?

I'll retest the smoker temperature vs. the meat probe, an oven thermometer, and a laser thermometer for good measure.  I had a long smoke time last time, too, and both times I used a heavy-duty (12-3 stranded) extension cord 20 feet long of my own manufacture.

That might cause longer reheat times, but I doubt it would cause the temperature to read incorrectly.  But as I said, it's worth a retest.


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## foamheart (Aug 5, 2013)

tamathumper said:


> Cooked a 3.69 pound pork shoulder yesterday, but it took about 9 hours!  6 hours at 225 and three more at 250, to reach an IT of 205.  It should have taken only 5.5. hours, so I suspect the temperature readout is fishy already, after only three uses?
> 
> I'll retest the smoker temperature vs. the meat probe, an oven thermometer, and a laser thermometer for good measure.  I had a long smoke time last time, too, and both times I used a heavy-duty (12-3 stranded) extension cord 20 feet long of my own manufacture.
> 
> That might cause longer reheat times, but I doubt it would cause the temperature to read incorrectly.  But as I said, it's worth a retest.


How often are you opening the door?


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## tamathumper (Aug 5, 2013)

I only opened the door twice during the entire time.


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## ats32 (Aug 6, 2013)

Your MES temp is probably off. I know mine is off by about 25 degrees but the probe is spot on.


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## rtbbq2 (Aug 6, 2013)

ATS32 said:


> Your MES temp is probably off. I know mine is off by about 25 degrees but the probe is spot on.


Mine is off 25° also.


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## rabbithutch (Aug 6, 2013)

I've got the MES 40 with the glass door that I bought from Sam's 2 years ago.  I've had no problems with the unit.  I was new to smoking so I learned a lot.

There must be thousands of threads on the subject of MES smokers.  Use the Advanced Search and Bob's yer uncle.


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## tamathumper (Aug 6, 2013)

Oh great, this is a known thing? @[email protected]#&*


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## tamathumper (Aug 6, 2013)

Loaded up several thermometers in the smoker in a small piece of potato set one inch from the internal probe, closed the vent and set the temperature to 225, and after two hours got the following:

MES 30 Display - 230

MES meat probe - 215

Meat thermometer - 190

Oven thermometer - 260 the entire time (clearly fried)!

And to top it off, I was in a hurry and forgot to test the temp with my laser thermometer!  Dang it! :(


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## Bearcarver (Aug 7, 2013)

tamathumper said:


> Loaded up several thermometers in the smoker in a small piece of potato set one inch from the internal probe, closed the vent and set the temperature to 225, and after two hours got the following:
> 
> MES 30 Display - 230
> 
> ...


I wouldn't trust any of those---I would get a Maverick ET-732, and trust that. IMHO

Bear


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## terry d (Aug 7, 2013)

I received my new MES 30" yesterday and burned it in last night as per the Masterbuilt instructions (3 hrs @275 with chips for the last 45 min). I put a temperature gage on one of the center grills and it read about 310 degrees when the digital readout was at 275. Could be because the smoker was empty, or it could be the cheap thermometer I used. I'm going to be doing my first batch this weekend (pork loin, or ribs, I haven't decided yet) time will tell.


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## sctdg35 (Aug 7, 2013)

Terry D  it is not your "cheap" thermo. It is a common problem with the MES line. Be it the 30 or the 40 . Don't bother calling Masterbuilt and getting a new controller because you will be wasting your time with the install . All their controls are junk . See my post on the subject ,been there,done that . The only thing from Masterbuilt that works as it should is the Masterbuilt cold smoker attachment. Get a Maverick 732 remote thermo . Find what temp you want to cook at and set the control to shut down at that point,disregard what the setting says on the digital control  . In other words if you want a smoker temp of 225 you will probably set smoker control to something like 195 or a little less .


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## tamathumper (Aug 7, 2013)

Maverick ET-732 ordered.


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## daricksta (Aug 7, 2013)

I use a Taylor with a probe that I've tested for accuracy. With my MES 30 after the box gets up to temp it's within 2-3 degrees of the Taylor. However, I've already told the wife I want the Maverick ET-732 for my birthday this year so it's a done deal.


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## ats32 (Aug 7, 2013)

sctdg35 said:


> Terry D  it is not your "cheap" thermo. It is a common problem with the MES line. Be it the 30 or the 40 . Don't bother calling Masterbuilt and getting a new controller because you will be wasting your time with the install . All their controls are junk . See my post on the subject ,been there,done that . The only thing from Masterbuilt that works as it should is the Masterbuilt cold smoker attachment. Get a Maverick 732 remote thermo . Find what temp you want to cook at and set the control to shut down at that point,disregard what the setting says on the digital control  . In other words if you want a smoker temp of 225 you will probably set smoker control to something like 195 or a little less .


Mine runs cold. For 225F I set it at 250F.


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## terry d (Aug 7, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. The Maverick is on my shopping list for the very near future. Until then I'll keep a close eye on the temps and figure out the offset I'll need to plan on.


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## draken (Aug 7, 2013)

The first time I used my MES 30", the temp ranged wildly (+/- 20 degrees or more from set point).  The second time, I didn't use water in the water tray.  I used sand instead (clean play sand) and the temp didn't vary more than 5 degrees either way.  I haven't verified how accurate the set point is, but at least the sand heat sink did a better job of stabilizing the temperature inside the unit.


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## themole (Aug 7, 2013)

You're gonna be happy!!!


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## draken (Aug 8, 2013)

I already am.  My second smoke was ribs and chicken (sorry, haven't posted Q-view yet) and it converted a family member from "I hate ribs" to "When are you making those again?!?".  Here's a tease of the upcoming Q-view. 













SmokerRibs1.jpg



__ draken
__ Aug 8, 2013


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## rtbbq2 (Aug 13, 2013)

tamathumper said:


> Maverick ET-732 ordered.


You will never look back....RTBBQ


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## jeffegg2 (Aug 13, 2013)

Lowes only charged me 25 bucks for an additional 2 year replacement warrenty for my Master Forge 30 digital.Jeff.





smoking in nye said:


> You should have got the 40" which has 1200 watts. After closing door,  it's back up to temp well under 5 mins.  Twenty or thirty minutes seems way too long. could be an element or controller problem and maybe a conversation with MB customer service is in order. Trust me they Masterbuilts' do screw up. I know this as I am in the process of sending back my second unit. Don't let your 90 warranty lapse without resolving any problems. I paid them $99 to get a 2 year warranty and they may wish they never sold it to me.
> 
> Bill


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## ats32 (Aug 13, 2013)

RTBBQ2 said:


> You will never look back....RTBBQ


I ordered one too...and AMNPS...and chips...


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## phillip p smith (Dec 15, 2013)

mcgallimore said:


> I think we need a poll on the MES models.. One that leave them out and covered up and then one that has them under cover..


I have a deep fat fryer under my carport. Over time it gathered a lot of dust and grime on just sitting there . I made a cover for it out of a shower curtain. Now it clean!  I just bought the mes 40 new gen with window.


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## daricksta (Dec 15, 2013)

Phillip P Smith said:


> I have a deep fat fryer under my carport. Over time it gathered a lot of dust and grime on just sitting there . I made a cover for it out of a shower curtain. Now it clean!  I just bought the mes 40 new gen with window.


Love your idea. My MES 30 sleeps in my garage under a cover I bought with it and bungee corded to a handtruck. It's only in my backyard when I'm using it and while it's cooling down after a smoke.


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## guruatbol (Dec 15, 2013)

I have mine on a table on the patio,but it just can't live there.  The plan is to build a table for it and put it on casters so it can be wheeled away from the house when in use and then placed back when done.  I see no need to cover it right now, but I am sure it will get as dirty and my gas grill.  I just clean that off when I clean the patio.

I think I will build a lower cabinet under it too so I can store all the chips and other related things under it.

Mel


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## daricksta (Dec 16, 2013)

guruatbol said:


> I have mine on a table on the patio,but it just can't live there.  The plan is to build a table for it and put it on casters so it can be wheeled away from the house when in use and then placed back when done.  I see no need to cover it right now, but I am sure it will get as dirty and my gas grill.  I just clean that off when I clean the patio.
> 
> I think I will build a lower cabinet under it too so I can store all the chips and other related things under it.
> 
> Mel


I have a small table in my backyard that I place the smokehouse on when using it. It doesn't have casters because it's a really old table and I just walk outside of my backyard fence when not in use. I think building a special cabinet to place your MES on is an excellent idea.


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## cuebiz (Dec 16, 2013)

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I'll try to chime in here. I am also new to forum, and have some pictures I took of the "keep thinking as you go" type of cabinet that I came up with for my MES. I'm in WI, and knew I would be battling bad weather here shortly, and wanted to make something quick to shelter the unit.

I first built a bench with casters I had laying around here.  I then thought why not build a cabinet right on top of that. Ive also added an Auber

PID controller that is not made for bad weather conditions. I have an enclosed area by my back porch door, so I cut a hole in the wall to accomodate the electrical cord and probe wires so that the controller and Mav 732 are inside.  The over hang on my porch roof is approxiamately 2 feet.  I left the back side of cabinet open completely, and left plenty of open space for the elbow on vent. I've also cut an opening for the chip loader. I use that only partially open for venting the AMNPS.  There is plenty of open air for unit not to heat up, but also provides a perfect atmosphere for bad weather conditions. The hinges on the door are pinned, so in the summer time for more circulation the door comes off easily. I've done three all night sessions with this so far, and it works great. First two I got up a couple of times during the night to check if everything was alright, and it was.  Now I can sleep. I hope I can show these pictures here. (My first time with this) I've also put a stainless sheet over the window so I don't have to clean it all the time.(PITA)  I hope this helps someone to come up with ideas of their own, depending on their own situations. Thanks for viewing!  Dave.


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