# Chicken on top or bottom?



## chef jimmyj

This comes up now and then Chicken on Top, Chicken on Bottom...It don't matter! Everything is taking place at temps WELL above the Instant Kill Temp of 165°F...

You are smoking a rack of Ribs, 225°F, at the 4 hours mark you put a whole drippy Chicken on top for a 2 hour smoke. Red Bacteria laden Chix juices are oozing all over the Ribs...ONE MINUTE later you realize the smoker temps were higher than you thought, this whole time the smoker was at 275°F, and Those Ribs Are Done! You immediately remove the Ribs...Any Problem here???? Is a trip to the Hospital certain??? *NOPE! *

The " surface " of those Ribs are 275°F! There is not a single Bacteria known to man that can survive more than few SECONDS at 165°F !!! There is just No Way the Salmonella, or anything else, see Dave Omak's chart below right column, could possibly survive contact with the 275°F surface of the Ribs. ALL Bacteria are Instantly killed and there is no chance of food-borne illness eating those Chicken basted Ribs...Even with Rare Steak. Bacteria can't Bore into the happily cool center and the Surface is 275°...More than instant Death to all!

Ok...There is mentally some YUCK factor because raw Chicken juices dripping sounds nasty but no Safety issues exist. In every other case the Chicken and other meat will be in the 225+ temps for hours. Above or below, again all bacteria is killed...

Tasting Spoons...People will see a Chef on some YouTube video, stir in some seasoning to a simmering pot, taste with the mixing spoon, then add more seasoning and stir it in with THE SAME SPOON!!! OMG, the Seventh Seal has been broken and Satan will rise to reek havoc on the world for a Millenia!!!.
NO, No ,No...The Simmering Liquid is around 200°F. Any Mouth Bacteria on the spoon was instantly killed. This is the same reason we can make foods like Gumbo in stages. Get the Roux and Trinity going, add the Sausage. Cook a few minutes and add the Raw Chicken. Getting near done and add the Raw Shimp and finish simmering 5 more minutes. Any Bacteria on the Veg, ,Sausage, Chicken, or Shimp, meet their Demise in seconds, once added. If it didn't work this way? There'd be a Shortage a CAJUNS! ...JJ


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## smokerjim

nice wright up, I am one of the guys that would never put chicken on top, thinking raw chicken dripping on the other food would be a disaster.


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## pc farmer

Great post JJ


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## mooncusser

Well put. Have to about the yuck factor could take precedence in this house. We sometimes treat raw chicken like it's on par with nuclear waste in terms of contaminating things...


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## chef jimmyj

Virtually every case of Salmonella has not come from eating Chicken, even undercooked chicken, since Salmonella dies pretty fast at 130°F. It's the contamination of foods that are not cooked or heated before eating that's the issue. Walked into a restaurant kitchen I was taking over and found they stored Raw Chicken on a high shelf over all SALAD and SANDWICH FIXIN'S! The staff had no idea that was a bad thing...JJ


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## SmokinVOLfan

Great write up! Really put a lot into perspective. Not a trained chef by any means but appreciate the lesson


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## chef jimmyj

Thanks for the Likes guys...JJ


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## mike243

and if temps would kill all the ugly stuff, CWD has entered Tn in spots and may be more spread than we know. no know human cases that they known but its possible


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## fivetricks

Yeah, I couldn't do it myself. Like jj, worked in enough kitchens that shelf rules are too burned into my head. I just. Can't. Do. It. Haha


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## bill ace 350

Another excellent, useful and actionable information piece.
Thanks!
These type of posts should make up the majority of the posts in the topic, in my opinion.


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## mooncusser

fivetricks said:


> Yeah, I couldn't do it myself. Like jj, worked in enough kitchens that shelf rules are too burned into my head. I just. Can't. Do. It. Haha


Same here. Still don't understand why residential refrigerators still have drawers meant for vegetables below other shelves. Training people to make a mistake.


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## winecooler5

Nice Write Up. Felt the information quite useful.


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## dr k

The first paragraph is missing the instant kill temp. It just ends with of.


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## chef jimmyj

dr k said:


> The first paragraph is missing the instant kill temp. It just ends with of.



I suspect many know the Kill Temp is 165 so their brain just fills in the blank...
Thanks for posting, I missed it too...JJ


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## timmyk

Thanks for this write up. Great info !!


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## Parkeexant

mooncusser said:


> Well put. Have to about the yuck factor could take precedence in this house. We sometimes treat raw chicken like it's on par with nuclear waste in terms of contaminating things...


so true i men we should try new stuff to


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## Bytor

chef jimmyj said:


> Virtually every case of Salmonella has not come from eating Chicken, even undercooked chicken, since Salmonella dies pretty fast at 130°F. It's the contamination of foods that are not cooked or heated before eating that's the issue. Walked into a restaurant kitchen I was taking over and found they stored Raw Chicken on a high shelf over all SALAD and SANDWICH FIXIN'S! The staff had no idea that was a bad thing...JJ


Yep, last year on business travel I got Salmonella.  It was so bad I had to go to the doctors to get treated for it and they reported to the TN health department.  Turns out I was one of about a dozen cases nationwide from one particular restaurant.  Most of the doomed guests like me got it from the red snapper.  According to the health department guy I was in conversation with, they narrowed it down to cross contamination from raw chicken to the fish.  I should have got the steak instead......


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## leont

Bytor said:


> Yep, last year on business travel I got Salmonella.  It was so bad I had to go to the doctors to get treated for it and they reported to the TN health department.  Turns out I was one of about a dozen cases nationwide from one particular restaurant.  Most of the doomed guests like me got it from the red snapper.  According to the health department guy I was in conversation with, they narrowed it down to cross contamination from raw chicken to the fish.  I should have got the steak instead......


Oh, I had Salmonella too and this is very unpleasant thing.. glad to know that TN health department found that restaurant


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## zwiller

chef jimmyj said:


> Tasting Spoons...People will see a Chef on some YouTube video, stir in some seasoning to a simmering pot, taste with the mixing spoon, then add more seasoning and stir it in with THE SAME SPOON!!! OMG, the Seventh Seal has been broken and Satan will rise to reek havoc on the world for a Millenia!!!.


Oh man I miss this guy: the perfect blend of knowledge, common sense, and sense of humor.


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## robafi

I realy appreciate the lesson thanks for sharing.


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