# Question about Competition ribs



## div (Jul 24, 2009)

I drive for a living and lately I have been using my iphone to listen to so radio shows with competition pros and the latest one was a 2 part segment about Ribs. Aside from the fact that some of them put down the little people with phrases like "guys from the internet" and "Internet noobs" and then want you to buy their products, the shows have had some good information that I intend on trying to make my nooby backyard ribs better.

My real question here is that multiple times I hear them all pretty much say that 90% of people dont know what ribs are supposed to taste like and that they all think they are supposed to be fall off the bone and sloppied up with sauce. Now who else beside the judges get to taste what a competition rib tastes like ? The judges are trained and told what to look for and what they should taste like according to lets say the KCBS becuase you know when some of these competition cooks are going out and catering 100-200 people that they arent taking the same care in 50-100 racks of ribs as they are with 3-4 competition racks. I am not saying all of them now but when you start dealing in mass quantity like that you cant put the time into every rack like u can during a competition.

Now heres my dilema, If 90% of lets say the people in America think that ribs are supposed to be fall off the bone and sloppy with sauce wouldnt that percentage say that, that is the way ribs are supposed to taste ?


----------



## rickw (Jul 24, 2009)

Interesting post. I don't have an answer but sure do look forward to one.


----------



## fired up (Jul 24, 2009)

90% of the people also think that Olive Garden is fine dining Italian food too.
And just the fact that Rachel Ray is a cooking superstar should tell you something.


----------



## ronp (Jul 24, 2009)

The ribs at my restaurant were pretty much fall off the bone, well the bones were clean, basted with BBQ sauce and seared just before serving under the broiler, but they were done in the dreaded oven. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Oh well, they went over very well anyway and Bon Appetit' thought so also, but then what do they know.


----------



## bigsteve (Jul 24, 2009)

Works for me. We love them falling off the bone, and slopped up with sweet BBQ sauce. That's how they're supposed to taste, at least at Bigsteves' barbeque joint.


----------



## bbq engineer (Jul 24, 2009)

Hey Div,

I think the majority of people think they should fall off the bone, and there is not a darn thing wrong with that. I like them that way too, but if I'm cooking for a comp, I make sure there is a slight tug to the ones that go up for judging. I think it is all about knowing your audience and then altering your technique to get the best result for them.

I seriously believe that you could turn out bad BBQ for the majority of people, and they wouldn't know the difference. It is people like you, me, and all of the others here that are constantly trying to improve our skills, techniques, and flavors that you would have a tough time putting something over on. 

Also, if you haven't volunteered to judge a contest, they are usually looking for judges, and that way you get to look inside the white styrofoam boxes and taste the fare of other competitors. Contact the organizers and ask...it's not a bad gig!

My $.02


----------



## daddio (Jul 24, 2009)

good question and alot of it is a matter of your own taste . but anyone can take a kcbs judging class and become certified to their standards,my wife and i went and are both certified,and it gives you a real insite as to what competition bar-b-q is judged by. that said your right most people don't make as big a fuss over their regular q that they may serve to the public.we on the other hand do,we're still real small outfit and we cook the same for competition as we do for cutomers.but i'm sure when you gey into really big volume you may not be able too. as per kcbs standards falling off the bone ribs are over cooked....but most people always judge q they get at a bar-b-q joint as good if the ribs fall off the bone.  so it all goes back to what you or the people your serving wants. hope this helps some


----------



## div (Jul 24, 2009)

^^^  LoL   ya my wife like olive garden for the chicken fett alfredo but when she gets the urge for it I just whip up a batch of it for about 6 bucks instead of spending 60$ lol


Some interesting answers so far, look fwd to reading some more opinions on this.


----------



## tasunkawitko (Jul 24, 2009)

i prefer the slight-tug-dry style rib, but my wife likes falling off the bone sloppy. who's right? we both are (except of course being a woman, she is just a little more right than me, right?

anyway, engineer's post and daddio's post both sum up my feelings on the matter, so i thank them for writing those posts so i don't have to!


----------



## rivet (Jul 24, 2009)

Well there ya go...all kinds of tastes for all kinds of folks. I prefer mine with a tug- fall off the bone is overcooked to me. Also prefer saucy over dry rub Memphis style.

Why? Dunno, because I want to like a dry memphis-rib~maybe I've never had a good one, or a good memphis-style rub. 

I suppose that's why there are so many restaurants out there....so many different tastes.


----------



## tasunkawitko (Jul 24, 2009)

rivet - that comment got me thinking....if you get the chance, slip me an email before you leave work tomorow....i might have something for you and if it works, you might have found your good memphis rib!


----------



## desertlites (Jul 24, 2009)

to each there own-I like a slight tug but have had some great fall off the bone with Great flavor.don't comp with the pro's but who I cook for likes the in-between-slight tug and good pull back.don't think I have heard a negitive bout my ribs.sept from myself.


----------



## pignit (Jul 24, 2009)

I shoot for a rib that when you pull the meat with your teeth, it comes cleanly off the bone. I have also found that to get to that exact spot is something you have to learn on your cooker with your rub and your sauce and your smoke at your temp. Ten or 15 degrees can make the difference in smoking 5 hours or 6 hours. I use three different smokers and they all have a different method. Once you find that spot... and you take notes and you do it again... you'll get the same results. I'm also finding the more I smoke ribs the more I look for perfection according to me. I'm almost there...... but I have to say... fallin off the bone or not... dang they are shweeeeet! You'll have to excuse me now... I have to go buy some ribs.


----------



## beer-b-q (Jul 24, 2009)

I think it is kinda like the government.  The minority gets its way and the majority sucks hind tit.

However if you run a restaurant, I believe the 90% would be who I tried to please.  Unless you were wanting to change vocations.


----------



## smokeys my pet (Jul 24, 2009)

Thats just a standard for the KCBS judges to go by. I also love the fall off the bone!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## smokin' dick (Jul 24, 2009)

Beer-B-Q;335876 said:
			
		

> I think it is kinda like the government.  The minority gets its way and the majority sucks hind tit.
> 
> Ribs are kinda like music. Just because it's popular, doesn't mean it's any good.
> 
> ...


----------



## chisoxjim (Jul 24, 2009)

brilliant post, I couldnt have said it better myself. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I prefer my ribs with no sauce(i want to taste the meat and the rub), and with a tug(still tender, but in that fine line before fallin off the bone). maybe some sauce on the side for dipping though..


----------



## bigsteve (Jul 24, 2009)

The way I have it figured, if you show up at a modern art show, with impressionist paintings, you ain't going to do well. That doesn't mean your art is bad.

If you present falling off the bone ribs to judges that expect them differently, you won't do well. That doesn't make the ribs bad.

Fall off the bones ribbers unite!


----------



## fourthwind (Jul 24, 2009)

This is one of the things that has to get chalked up to "opinion"  everyone has one.  Most contests have a standard set by someone who liked enforcing theirs standards and it never got changed. This is true for everything including game calling contests where the sounds they make are nothing I would use in the field.  With Ribs my family prefers the dry style.  I use a version of the "pigs worst nightmare rub" on mine, and mop with apple juice.  I dont do the long smoke method.  I do a smoke / grill with lump coal and wood.  It's just what my family and I like in a rib.  tender, but not falling apart in your hands.  I would like to see a contest done and have it sampled by a large groups of guys and gals that are not "trained" judges.  Just what rib appealed to more of the folks on an average.  Then let it loose to "trained" judges  and compare.  I am sure the results would be interesting. Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## smokebuzz (Jul 24, 2009)

Well, I have won all types of comps, KCBS, Rib fests, Back yard/church/local cook offs. They are all differnt,and depends on the type of judges,KCBS gotta have a little tug and a balaced sauce, Rib fest types can have  either fall off or slight tug with a very WOW sauce, and local B/Y it has to fall apart and have the most popular store bought sauce the area carries, such as open pit, KC master peice and so on.

And as far as what type I prefer, I say Yes, I like ribs


----------



## billbo (Jul 24, 2009)

All this discussion is great but begs another question. We all know that for fall off the bone you use the 3-2-1 or something similar. When you all speak of the slight tug do you foil at all? 

I never foiled up to about 2 months ago and always had that "tug". The ribs too were just as good. I am leaning toward thinking fall off is overcooked a bit for me. Is there some happy medium that is being kept a secret?


----------



## chisoxjim (Jul 24, 2009)

Ive been using a tip some competition guys gave me a few months ago.  I smoke the ribs until they just pass the tongs bend test,  then I tent them in foil  with honey, some rub, and some apple juice for 20 mins for BB's,. and 45 mins for spares.

I ahve been very happy with this method to get me where I want to be texture wise.


----------



## ddave (Jul 24, 2009)

Very well summed up, Buzz.

You can, but reduce the time.

Dave


----------



## div (Jul 24, 2009)

Some interesting opinions and methods ... some things here I will probably try....  my main point tho wasnt that opinions vary based on what a person likes but that the comp cooks were saying the people didnt know what a rib was supposed to taste like and I didnt really agree that because the KCBS sets the standards for competitions that their way was the only and right way a rack of ribs should be cooked.  I like em both ways and as a matter a fact im gunna go prep some right now !!  one fall off the bone and one with a tug then im gunna slap ya mama


----------



## gnubee (Jul 24, 2009)

I talked to several of the winners in a comp. The fellow that took first in 2 categories and the guy that took first in the best overall comp both told me that you should keep records of every judge that rated your stuff. Some judges like a little sweetness and some like none at all . Some like fall off the bone and some go for a little more texture. Learn how to do your ribs both ways and adjust depending who is going to be judging. The chef that matches closest to what any particular judge likes is going to come out on top.

Anytime the majority like anything done a certain way that makes it the right way. However if you like it done exactly the opposite way that doesn't make you wrong either. 

Esquimos in my opinion like it too underdone. That doesn't make it wrong.


----------



## ddave (Jul 25, 2009)

Good point, Div.  It does seem rather arrogant and pompous on their part to say basically that since 90% of the people don't cook for KCBS judges, they don't know how a rib is supposed to taste.  Maybe what they should have said was that 90% of the people don't know what a *competition rib* should taste like.

I also follow another BBQ forum where there are LOTS of comp cooks and I don't think many, if any, of them would think any less of a backyard BBQ enthusiast cooking ribs to "fall of the bone tender" if that's what they like.  Me, I don't really like them that way, I prefer a "bit of tug" but I don't fault a guy for wanting them to fall off the bone nor would I say that he doesn't know what a rib should taste like.

Dave


----------



## glgoodwin (Jul 25, 2009)

Could you explain more about the bend test, I am not sure what that is? Thanks!!


----------



## chisoxjim (Jul 25, 2009)

I pick the slabs up with tongs about the 3rd rib bne in, and check to see how the rib bends. If the meats starts to crack,   etc, it is done.


----------



## tn_bbq (Jul 25, 2009)

Fondle with your meat until it feels right.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Since no two pigs are the same and no two racks of ribs are the same, you need to develop a keen eye and feel for properly cooked meat (same goes for steaks and chicken).


----------



## thundernoggin (Jul 25, 2009)

Exactly.  I don't have a problem with them setting the parameters for their competition.  But if they think that gives them some higher authority to define what "real" barbecue is then they can go fly a kite.


----------



## bigsteve (Jul 25, 2009)

Bingo!


----------



## eman (Jul 25, 2009)

If everyone is finished eating my ribs and i look around and see smiles ,full bellies,piles of bones and folks are asking how and when am i doing some more, Then them's some good ribs.
 Don't care what some judge says.


----------



## ddave (Jul 25, 2009)

My sentiments exactly. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





And you worded it much more politely than I would have.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Dave


----------

