# hot and fast brisket?



## jerseydrew (Jul 17, 2013)

so how hot and how fast is it? i watch BBQ PM and everyone has different theories. i want to try it once and see if it affects flavor and tenderness. i have an 11.5 lb brisket and was hoping to get it cooked in one day for dinner.


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## thomas phillips (Jul 17, 2013)

Jeff has an Excellent newsletter about a slow n low start, high finish brisket here.

http://www.smoking-meat.com/february-7-2013-smoked-brisket-low-n-slow-start-high-heat-finish


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## badmoont2 (Jul 18, 2013)

I have been experimenting with hot and fast on briskets and butts, so far the results have been very good. I too got the idea from Barbecue Pitmasters, Myron Mixon in particular seems to be a devotee of hot and fast. At minimum it's a technique to have in your arsenal when time is short.

Here's a recent post I did about a hot and fast brisket cook. Lately I've been starting at 225 and letting the temp rise fairly quickly so that after 2 hrs I'm at 300. The idea here is to get a little more smoke on the meat.


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## suie (Jul 18, 2013)

I've been thinking about trying hot and fast on Briskets too, thanks to Myron Mixon. On a recent show I think he said he does them at 300-325 and can get a full packer done in 10 hours. It sure would be nice to not have to do them overnight!


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## turnandburn (Jul 18, 2013)

ive done hot and fast with no problems.


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## kathrynn (Jul 18, 2013)

My hot and fast temps range from 250-275*....and actually the butts and the briskets have been moist and delish....same as if I did them at 225*

Kat


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## turnandburn (Jul 18, 2013)

KathrynN said:


> My hot and fast temps range from 250-275*....and actually the butts and the briskets have been moist and delish....same as if I did them at 225*
> 
> Kat


i thought 250-275 was the national standard nowadays? lol. whos still running 225? idk bout yall but i like to eat the same day preferrably. haha. hot and fast is 300+..


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## themule69 (Jul 18, 2013)

Try thishttp://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...ork-week-fast-smoked-brisket-on-the-green-egg

Happy smoken.

David


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## kathrynn (Jul 18, 2013)

TB....I totally agree....I try and get some sleep....so just crank that bad boy up!  I have done 300* and it's just too high for me on the Smoke Vault.

Kat


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## turnandburn (Jul 18, 2013)

KathrynN said:


> TB....I totally agree....I try and get some sleep....so just crank that bad boy up!  I have done 300* and it's just too high for me on the Smoke Vault.
> 
> Kat


i hear ya..was just ribbin'...my dad taught me how to smoke and grill at a young age, and he always swore by 220-225 for smoke..i laugh at him all the time cuz he wonders how i do it at 260*....i just tell him "new skool pops..new skool" haha.


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## fwismoker (Jul 18, 2013)

Thomas Phillips said:


> Jeff has an Excellent newsletter about a slow n low start, high finish brisket here.
> 
> http://www.smoking-meat.com/february-7-2013-smoked-brisket-low-n-slow-start-high-heat-finish


basically finishing with a high heat braising finish.


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## dewetha (Jul 18, 2013)

i think there is some correlation between temps, quality of meat and prep. 

i think some questions determine how i prepare my food and at what temp. hot much fat is in the meat?what is the quality of the meat? am i injecting?  using a foil pan? and probably a few more.

Myron goes hot fast at 350 for brisket in his book. but he injects, uses a pan and buys the highest grade meat, usually wyngu (sp). I do my briskets at a lower temp basically anywhere my smoker settle in at in the 225-275 range. consistent temps is more important than what temp, within reason of course. no injections and so far they have all turned out good. i may try his way one day for fun. becuse i can;t leave well enough alone :( it's a sickness i think.

i buy from the same butcher and the meat is always the same quality. i think that helps more than anything. good meat means, I don't have to try and make a good brisket. i just have to not screw it up. big difference. i just let it cook and pull it when it's ready. a lesser tasting meat will require injections, more time resting, more care when cooking etc. at least for me. i'm picky about putting out a good plate of food. often disappointed even when my guests are fighting for seconds.

now for pork butt, i follow myron steps and it fantastic and done at about 1lb per hour. never hit a stall. good meat, injected, in a pan, run at 275.

. I have a new smoker so maybe i will try hot and fast :) you never know until you try. of coarse the bad part is it takes 8-12 hours to find out if you did it rght or not. lol


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## suie (Jul 18, 2013)

dewetha said:


> Myron goes hot fast at 350 for brisket in his book. but he injects, uses a pan and buys the highest grade meat, usually wyngu (sp). I do my briskets at a lower temp basically anywhere my smoker settle in at in the 225-275 range. consistent temps is more important than what temp, within reason of course. no injections and so far they have all turned out good. i may try his way one day for fun. becuse i can;t leave well enough alone :( it's a sickness i think.


That's a really good point. Wagyu has so much marbling that it probably stands up better to high heat. 

And I'm with you on not leaving well enough alone...I don't think I've ever cooked a brisket the same way twice!


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## jerseydrew (Jul 18, 2013)

TurnandBurn said:


> i thought 250-275 was the national standard nowadays? lol. whos still running 225? idk bout yall but i like to eat the same day preferrably. haha. hot and fast is 300+..










  ME! i do most cooking at 225.. but like you said i would like to eat the food the same day. i have now tried a couple of butts and a a few BB ribs at 250 and taste no difference so i am basically trying to see how high i can take it without hurting the taste and texture of the food.


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## turnandburn (Jul 18, 2013)

dewetha said:


> i think there is some correlation between temps, quality of meat and prep.
> 
> i think some questions determine how i prepare my food and at what temp. hot much fat is in the meat?what is the quality of the meat? am i injecting?  using a foil pan? and probably a few more.
> 
> ...


where have you seen him using wagyu and injecting it? at $200 for a 9lb brisket he better not be injecting it..lol. for the price it better smoke itself and plate itself..haha.


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## turnandburn (Jul 18, 2013)

jerseydrew said:


> ME! i do most cooking at 225.. but like you said i would like to eat the food the same day. i have now tried a couple of butts and a a few BB ribs at 250 and taste no difference so i am basically trying to see how high i can take it without hurting the taste and texture of the food.


yeh 225 is wayyyy to low and waaaaaaaayyyyyyy to slow for me. lol. the brisket i did in the pictures in my sig was cooked at 325*...quickest brisket ever. and one of the best...


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## rdknb (Jul 18, 2013)

I am a 225 to 250 guy also.  The exception for me is chicken.


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## mneeley490 (Jul 18, 2013)

RdKnB said:


> I am a 225 to 250 guy also.  The exception for me is chicken.


Same here. Time and temp may have made more of a difference to me when I was using a Char Broil offset and had to babysit it all night. But now I use my electric fridge conversion with a PID controler. Just put the brisket in at night, go to bed, & check on it in the morning. Easy as pie, now. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   In fact, I was thinking of trying my next brisket at 200°.


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## jerseydrew (Jul 18, 2013)

ok so 250- 275 isn't "hot and fast"? i do not like to foil. i usually put water in the pan and have at it at 225 till done. but on a packer that is an overnight smoke. i would really like to start 9 am and serve for dinner at 7.


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## redwood carlos (Jul 19, 2013)

Anyone see the TV coverage about this:













TMcover.jpg



__ redwood carlos
__ Jul 19, 2013






Franklin's pit temp was at 275. He said he cooks for 17 hours. The other guy says he cooks for half that time.

From the bits and pieces of info I have gathered, I estimate Franklin cooks like this. He uses high quality meat, and says he does not pass the costs he should along to the customer. Salt and Pepper rub, cooks at 275 with post oak well seasoned, to whatever temp he wants, then wraps in butcher paper, and possibly allows his fire to die down so they rest in a decent heat, maybe serving temperature, for who knows how long.

Thoughts...


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## jerseydrew (Jul 20, 2013)

Thomas Phillips said:


> Jeff has an Excellent newsletter about a slow n low start, high finish brisket here.
> 
> http://www.smoking-meat.com/february-7-2013-smoked-brisket-low-n-slow-start-high-heat-finish



I am trying this today. I got the smoker up and running and smoked for about 3.5 hours. Brisket was at 148. Pan with beef broth and apple juice wrapped it and into 350 deg oven. Well it is 5 hours in and we are at 180 IT. I'm gonna take it to 190-195 then small cube it and throw it in my chili. 

Will report on taste a d tenderness when done. But this is definitely a time saver!


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## jerseydrew (Jul 20, 2013)

Ok at 185 I cut the brisket in half and used half to cube up for chili and the rest is resting. The results are ok for being done in half the time and the fact i am going to flavor it up in the chili it is fine. I think that the steam effect (braising) is not my style. I do not like foil. But if in a pinch and need a big honking piece of meat done in one day it works. I will say that there was no stall. It blew through the stall like it didn't exist!


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## kathrynn (Jul 20, 2013)

Show some q-view of it before it all gets eaten!

Kat


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## themule69 (Jul 20, 2013)




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## dankind (Sep 3, 2016)

I'm doing a 12lb packer and trying to beat Hermine so I went "hot and fast". 4 hours at 325-350 and I'm at 193 on a good digital wireless therm. What the heck is going on?!


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## jcbigler (Sep 3, 2016)

dankind said:


> I'm doing a 12lb packer and trying to beat Hermine so I went "hot and fast". 4 hours at 325-350 and I'm at 193 on a good digital wireless therm. What the heck is going on?!



The hurricane is pushing a tonne of air thrugh your smoker. High airflow will cook faster at the same temperature. 

4 hrs to get up to 193 IT is certainly a hot and fast run.


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## noboundaries (Sep 3, 2016)

I'm definitely a hot n fast guy nowadays on big hunks of meat.  I start low n slow, 225F, just to put some good smoke on it.  When the temp starts creeping up because the meat is warming up, I just let it go, even encourage a higher chamber temp by opening the vents and setting the blower on 350F, wrapping at an IT of 170-180F until it hits my target IT, usually 200F.  Probe for tenderness then decide if it needs more time or it is ready to rest.  Always tastes yummy, tender and juicy.


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## bigsmoketexas (Feb 28, 2017)

Going to try this soon. 

So 275-300 is ideal for hot and fast? 

Is there still a stall period? 

12lber will still be done in 6 or so hours?

Do you still wrap, and if so at what point?


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## dukeburger (Feb 28, 2017)

bigsmoketexas said:


> Going to try this soon.
> 
> So 275-300 is ideal for hot and fast?
> 
> ...


I'd say closer to 8-10 hours at 275 and 6-7 hours at 300. These are all arbitrary numbers though as it will be done when it's done.

The stall period will still be there but will be MUCH shorter so there is no need to wrap IMO. 

Let us know how it goes, and live post the smoke and we'll be there watching. Good luck!


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## dukeburger (Feb 28, 2017)

DukeBurger said:


> I'd say closer to 8-10 hours at 275 and 6-7 hours at 300. These are all arbitrary numbers though as it will be done when it's done.
> 
> The stall period will still be there but will be MUCH shorter so there is no need to wrap IMO.
> 
> Let us know how it goes, and live post the smoke and we'll be there watching. Good luck!


Just to add, when cooking a brisket at these temps you have to be more on-the-ball when checking for tenderness, so I would start checking at 190 IT and every couple degrees until tender.


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 28, 2017)

bigsmoketexas said:


> Going to try this soon.
> 
> So 275-300 is ideal for hot and fast?
> 
> ...


I don't think you can peg a time on this method with any semblance of conviction.  It's going to be done when it wants to be done.  Half-hour a pound at 275?  I seriously doubt it:  unlikely could get to temp, but even if it does, the collagen hasn't had a chance to fully break down, and it's probably going to be like chewing on rubber bands.  275 is more closely aligned with 2 to 3 fold the time you laid out in your question.  Stalls are individualized:  some do, some don't.  If you don't want good bark, wrap.  If you do want good bark, don't wrap.


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## dukeburger (Feb 28, 2017)

Collagen will still have time to break down with an adequate rest period of an hour or more wrapped in foil/towels and packed in a cooler.

I prefer the hybrid low/hot/low method... start at 235, bump to 290 to power through the stall, down to 250 to finish. No wrap. Experimenting is fun.


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 28, 2017)

DukeBurger said:


> Collagen will still have time to break down with an adequate rest period of an hour or more wrapped in foil/towels and packed in a cooler.
> 
> I prefer the hybrid low/hot/low method... start at 235, bump to 290 to power through the stall, down to 250 to finish. No wrap. Experimenting is fun.


I don't disagree with your point, Duke:  I do disagree that bigsmoke can get a 12 lb packer to fruition in a 6 hour timeline at 275-300.  Not going to happen--that slab of beef will be inedible within that temp range.  I completely concur with what you and I both said earlier:  it's done when it's done.


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## dukeburger (Feb 28, 2017)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/250209/birthday-brisket


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 28, 2017)

DukeBurger said:


> bigsmoke: I did some digging around and found a post on a brisket I smoked at 275 last summer. A 13lb packer took me 12 hours + rest at that temp. gr0uch0 is about bang on
> 
> 
> 
> ...









    I'm not the greatest at 'cipherin', but those numbers lobbed out earlier didn't add up to anything I've ever seen.


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## bigsmoketexas (Feb 28, 2017)

Appreciate the input fellas its exactly what i needed to hear. Its my first attempt at hot n fast and didnt know what to expect.


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 28, 2017)

bigsmoketexas said:


> Appreciate the input fellas its exactly what i needed to hear. Its my first attempt at hot n fast and didnt know what to expect.


My pleasure, bigsmoke.  Don't rush perfection:  I get as antsy as the next guy and want to sink my teeth into it asap, but there's reasons this crappy cut of beef is done at a snail's pace.  Trust the process.  Where you at in TX?


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## bigsmoketexas (Mar 1, 2017)

Houston. 

Im short on time for this smoke, and wanted to see if i could get it done. If its a success i plan to use this method for my next cater/plate sale.


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 1, 2017)

X2 on Houston: grew up on 1960.  Fill us in on how it turns out.


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## ynot2k (Mar 5, 2017)

Just finished a brisket here at my joint - this one took 12 hours.  7 others that were put on the pit at the same time took less.  I smoke at 260.  YMMV.  They're all different.

Jeff

Jeff's Texas Style BBQ

Marysville, WA


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## bigsmoketexas (Mar 11, 2017)

So after almost 3 hrs in the egg, brisket is hitting 165 so time to wrap. Bark looks decent, wrapped in buther paper to save the bark. Im ready to see if the hype is real.


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## TexaQ (Apr 18, 2018)

hey bigsmoketexas.... almost a year later but i just read the whole thread bc looking for a quick method for catering and i get to you without the final results! dying to know.... can you dish?


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## baggadonuts (Apr 18, 2018)

in my somewhat relaxed state currently, I read that as 'hot and fast breakfast' so I came here looking for something I could throw in the smoker in the AM and end up with some hot and fast breakfast. 

I guess i'll have to make up my own. 

maybe a casserole thrown onto the smoker for a few hours?


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