# Masterbuilt not standing by warranty?



## erik rose (Dec 23, 2019)

I bought an MES and the heating element burnt out after a few months of light use. Customer support was good and sent a new element. When replacing the element I discovered that the silicone behind the heating element has melted and burned. After replacing the element there was a horrible burned plastic smell. Customer support said to wash the interior and then set it to 275 for a few hours. I did this a handful of times and the smell remained but customer support didn't offer up any new solutions. The smell is just as strong as it was from day 1 and it permeates anything I try to cook. Eventually Masterbuilt just recommended that I buy a new body kit (even though it was under warranty when the element burnt the silicone) and have stopped responding.

Any ideas?


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## Central PA Cowboy (Dec 23, 2019)

I feel ya. I actually like my MES, but their CS sucks as far as getting a response.

Have to say I feel GMG is way worse. My smoker stopped working after about 3 uses and they would not let me return it. Just sending parts for me to fix. I think that is absurd because technically they are making the customer fix their mistake.


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## jcam222 (Dec 23, 2019)

erik rose said:


> I bought an MES and the heating element burnt out after a few months of light use. Customer support was good and sent a new element. When replacing the element I discovered that the silicone behind the heating element has melted and burned. After replacing the element there was a horrible burned plastic smell. Customer support said to wash the interior and then set it to 275 for a few hours. I did this a handful of times and the smell remained but customer support didn't offer up any new solutions. The smell is just as strong as it was from day 1 and it permeates anything I try to cook. Eventually Masterbuilt just recommended that I buy a new body kit (even though it was under warranty when the element burnt the silicone) and have stopped responding.
> 
> Any ideas?


Have you been able to push beyond first level support? That definitely sucks.


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## erik rose (Dec 23, 2019)

Derek717 said:


> I feel ya. I actually like my MES, but their CS sucks as far as getting a response.
> 
> Have to say I feel GMG is way worse. My smoker stopped working after about 3 uses and they would not let me return it. Just sending parts for me to fix. I think that is absurd because technically they are making the customer fix their mistake.





jcam222 said:


> Have you been able to push beyond first level support? That definitely sucks.


I sent the claim in 8 months ago and have had on and off convos since then. People had generally been trying to help until the most recent rep. Her first message was basically that they had done as much troubleshooting as possible and the only remedy was for me to buy a part. Her next message stated that I took too long to respond so she was not going to honor the warranty. So I think I got to the "closer" level of customer support.


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## Central PA Cowboy (Dec 23, 2019)

erik rose said:


> I sent the claim in 8 months ago and have had on and off convos since then. People had generally been trying to help until the most recent rep. Her first message was basically that they had done as much troubleshooting as possible and the only remedy was for me to buy a part. Her next message stated that I took too long to respond so she was not going to honor the warranty. So I think I got to the "closer" level of customer support.


Tell them their company sucks and chalk it up as a loss unfortunately. Idk what it is, but I only noticed shitty CS when it comes to smokers. Very odd imo. Anything else I have ever had a problem with, I could return it.


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## erik rose (Dec 23, 2019)

Derek717 said:


> Tell them their company sucks and chalk it up as a loss unfortunately. Idk what it is, but I only noticed shitty CS when it comes to smokers. Very odd imo. Anything else I have ever had a problem with, I could return it.


Nah I will threaten small claims court and keep fighting. Probably not worth their time/money to put up with me. I bet they will cave.


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## Central PA Cowboy (Dec 23, 2019)

erik rose said:


> Nah I will threaten small claims court and keep fighting. Probably not worth their time/money to put up with me. I bet they will cave.


How much was the smoker?


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## erik rose (Dec 23, 2019)

Derek717 said:


> How much was the smoker?


$200 on sale haha. I think originally it was $350 or $400. Cheap cheap cheap, but it does not cost me money to persist with emails.


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## fivetricks (Dec 23, 2019)

If that smell has permeated your smoker, perhaps you can strip the seasoning off of the walls and start the process of seasoning over.


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## erik rose (Dec 23, 2019)

fivetricks said:


> If that smell has permeated your smoker, perhaps you can strip the seasoning off of the walls and start the process of seasoning over.


It seems like the smell is between the case. I haven't gotten too crazy with cleaning, but have done diluted mild soap and diluted apple cider vinegar a few times to no avail.


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## fivetricks (Dec 24, 2019)

Hmm. I would think that simply propping the door to the smoker open an leaving it that way for a couple or 3 weeks would help quite a bit.


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## JCAP (Dec 24, 2019)

erik rose said:


> Nah I will threaten small claims court and keep fighting. Probably not worth their time/money to put up with me. I bet they will cave.



I’ve always thought these tactics to be not helpful. It’s likely they won’t be phased by this as I’m sure they have access to much more legal resources than the average  person.

I agree with some others-air it out for a few weeks than strip the seasoning and reseason. See if that helps. If not, it sucks but at least you got it on sale!


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## SmokinAl (Dec 24, 2019)

That is too bad, cause they used to have great CS.
Al


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## Central PA Cowboy (Dec 24, 2019)

SmokinAl said:


> That is too bad, cause they used to have great CS.
> Al



I agree with this poster. They must not anymore, which is quite upsetting.

GMG CS is great with communication, but they wouldn't let me return a smoker that stopped working after 3 uses. They said they can send parts for me to fix it. Sorry, but I paid to have a working product. I shouldn't have to waste my time fixing their mistake. I am young and enjoy smoking and will never give them another cent as they don't deserve anyone's business.


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## Murray (Dec 24, 2019)

Keep at them,  I too had issues with customer service. They finally replaced the power circuit board, their claim was I was using a too long extension cord, too small diameter extension cord, using an extension cord in the first place. Finally they relented when I pointed out that the instructions want you 10’ away from any combustible structure yet the power cord supplied is only 4’. It took me about 10 emails over 2 months to finally resolve my issue. Good luck


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## Bearcarver (Dec 24, 2019)

Masterbuilt Changing CS:
10 years ago I bought my first MES, and had no problems, but I learned how to use one.
Then I bought one for my Son, and his had the dreaded problem of the extra piece of metal between the heating element & the chip drawer, so it wouldn't smoke until you got up to about 220°. I called them, and I got a girl telling me I should soak my chips, and a couple of other stupid statements. I asked her if she ever used an MES, or if she ever saw one. She said she thinks there's one in their show-room. I gave up & hung up. Tried again the next day, and got the same answers. We took it back to Cabelas.
Then I got my second MES, and it had the same problem, but their CS had changed, and they had found the problem & they were giving FREE Upgrade kits to those who had that problem. The Kit had a new Chip burner assembly, which solved the problem of the space between the Element & Chip drawer.
Then beginning there the CS got Awesome. They were helping people with problems even after their warranty had run out. It was Great CS for quite a few years.
Now judging by the last year or so, it looks like the CS went to Hell again. Maybe they rehired that Little Girl who I dealt with 10 years ago???

I would keep after them---Maybe you just have to get ahold of the right person. You could get lucky & have somebody with a brain answer the phone.

Meanwhile I would hesitate to use any water in your cleaning efforts, since it is electric. You could end up with even bigger problems.

Bear


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## chopsaw (Dec 24, 2019)

erik rose said:


> When replacing the element I discovered that the silicone behind the heating element has melted and burned. After replacing the element there was a horrible burned plastic smell.


Might want to make sure you're not burning insulation where the connection goes thru the back of the case .


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## erik rose (Dec 24, 2019)

chopsaw said:


> Might want to make sure you're not burning insulation where the connection goes thru the back of the case .


When the element burnt out I am sure it got hot enough to burn some insulation. I don't want to do too much dismantling of rivets because I don't want to give them any more reason not to uphold the warranty.


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## dr k (Dec 24, 2019)

The silicone gasket was disfigured on mine but not burnt up when I flipped my element to center it.  I think if you have a ground wire at the gasket that is melting insulation or box insulation melting is the issue. If you go to MB page on FB and messenger them. That has been the fastest response from comments I've seen and  I've have had good luck with it as well for a replacement warranty element. Start over with the burnt smell and not mention the replacement element and that case number.


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## erik rose (Dec 24, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> Masterbuilt Changing CS:
> 10 years ago I bought my first MES, and had no problems, but I learned how to use one.
> Then I bought one for my Son, and his had the dreaded problem of the extra piece of metal between the heating element & the chip drawer, so it wouldn't smoke until you got up to about 220°. I called them, and I got a girl telling me I should soak my chips, and a couple of other stupid statements. I asked her if she ever used an MES, or if she ever saw one. She said she thinks there's one in their show-room. I gave up & hung up. Tried again the next day, and got the same answers. We took it back to Cabelas.
> Then I got my second MES, and it had the same problem, but their CS had changed, and they had found the problem & they were giving FREE Upgrade kits to those who had that problem. The Kit had a new Chip burner assembly, which solved the problem of the space between the Element & Chip drawer.
> ...


Thanks Bear. I will keep after them.

I have not used anything like a hose or (shudder) pressure washer. Just a rag and brillo pad dipped in water. Had to take some steel wool to the area between the element and the electrical connectors because there was not other way to scrape off the silicone that had melted to interior. I will try reaching out via social media.

Merry Christmas and thanks for all of your contributions!


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## dr k (Dec 24, 2019)

I try to keep the back wall above the element legs dry from grease so the non heating legs of the element don't get wet and short.


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## smokininidaho (Dec 24, 2019)

Have been looking to get an electric smoker, I guess I'll cross Masterbuilt off the list.


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## Murray (Dec 24, 2019)

smokininidaho said:


> Have been looking to get an electric smoker, I guess I'll cross Masterbuilt off the list.


 For the money (especially on sale)  they aren’t a bad unit. Some seems to have more problems than others. My son-in-laws sits covered on his deck and fires up without fail every time. It’s about 4 years old and has ran flawlessly.


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## erik rose (Dec 24, 2019)

smokininidaho said:


> Have been looking to get an electric smoker, I guess I'll cross Masterbuilt off the list.


I mean it smoked great food and generally works as advertised. Built quality is not great, but pretty good value. I think burnt out heating elements and bad electrical controls are common, but customer service was good up until it was an expensive problem. I would still recommend the smokers when they are on sale, even with my issue.


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## chopsaw (Dec 24, 2019)

I bought mine in 2013 . Fixed a few connections , and added the Auber PID . It's awesome .


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## Central PA Cowboy (Dec 24, 2019)

erik rose said:


> I mean it smoked great food and generally works as advertised. Built quality is not great, but pretty good value. I think burnt out heating elements and bad electrical controls are common, but customer service was good up until it was an expensive problem. I would still recommend the smokers when they are on sale, even with my issue.



Same here.

But Green Mountain Grills? Hell no.


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## UGAsmokin (Dec 25, 2019)

Had an MES and heat element burned out after about 10 smokes. CS was horrible. Took the damn thing to the dump and relished throwing it away. Since than I've also had horrible service from Charbroil/OKJ. They are very nice on the phone and will promise the world. After I called back about 10 times nothing ever happened and I gave up. Who knows where these call centers are. I think they all let a third party handle CS and most use the same one. I bet the ceramic smoker's CS is better.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 26, 2019)

I must be Lucky on MES units:
I got an MES30  10 years ago, never had a problem, but sold it after one year & bought a bigger MES40. I used that one for 4 years, and only problem I ever had was I had to replace a 20 cent connector for the heating element. Then I got another MES40 about 6 years ago, and it's been perfect. As far as I know all 3 of them are still in working condition.
I don't use mine as often or as hard as I used to, but I think that's still some pretty good service.

Bear


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## dave17a (Jan 11, 2020)

smokininidaho said:


> Have been looking to get an electric smoker, I guess I'll cross Masterbuilt off the list.


Ya know, I read and read on electric smokers before I splurged and heating elements were all the main issue. Some only 90 day warranties. Smokin-it just kept haunting me.  Three year warranty. Christmas bonus and....


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## erik rose (Jan 11, 2020)

UPDATE: So I bothered them quite a bit on Twitter and they are sending me a new body kit warranty part. Victory?


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## lovethemeats (Jan 11, 2020)

I must be extremely lucky with my MES30. Unit 5 - 6 years old maybe more and still no issues with it. Still going strong. Gets used several times a year. 
Now my MES40 was a bum unit right from the start. Had to watch it closely. Heater element would turn on and never turn off. Found out the hard way the first time. You would have to unplug it and plug it back in to get it to work right again. Instead of fighting with CS. I just took what I had and rewired it with a New Pid unit in play.  Loving it ever since. No issues at all and now I have memory for different heat profiles. Something most units/manufacturers don't offer.


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## chopsaw (Jan 11, 2020)

lovethemeats said:


> I just took what I had and rewired it with a New Pid unit in play. Loving it ever since. No issues at all and now I have memory for different heat profiles. Something most units/manufacturers don't offer.


I'm with you on this . No regrets at all .


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 19, 2020)

I got my MES40 unit in 2019 just before Christmas. The first one had some pretty good damage on a corner as FedEx brought it from SamsClub.com.  

The replacement unit was rec'd after not much of a hassle.  I started using the new one around Christmas and it worked well but the first element burned open by May. This unit is on my screen porch up near the house and is not exposed to weather/moisture.  I found the listing for parts on the Masterbuilt website and the price of two replacement elements plus shipping was around $30.  This seemed fair as at least one seller on Amazon was at $30 for one element shipped.  It took over a week to show up in PA from GA (covid delays?).  Replacing the element was fairly easy and I did a few more cooks with it and it worked for a couple weeks.  

I had promised to bring lunch to some friends and had my chicken trimmed and brined.  I lit my smoke tube and saw the element glowing as it heated up.  I came back to check the progress and it had only reached 120 with the set temp at 225.  Since I had just swapped the element I checked that first but the element still measured 12.2 ohms and the connections were good.  I hooked my volt meter leads direct to the wires that feed the element and when you set up a cook and the unit showed it was heating, it only puts out 1.65vac and I'd expect 120vac on the element.  I was able to cook the meat in the oven so it didn't go to waste but my Masterbuilt has failed me twice in 7 months.  I believe I read another thread here on SMF where negative opinions were shared on the quality of MES units sourced through Sam's Club.

I filled out a service request on their website as the phone number has a recording saying that the online/email support is the only option during covid.  So far at 7 business days as of Friday I have an email that they rec'd my request for help but nothing further.

I'd really like to get my MES back in running shape and didn't expect that the quality would be lacking so much.  I understand the option to convert to a PID should yield a much more consistent experience but for the short time I've owned this unit I feel like Masterbuilt should be supplying the parts and support necessary to repair or replace this unit. 

Other friends bought their own Masterbuilt propane smoker after having dinner I provided for them a couple times.  It's easy to get addicted to smoking meat like other smoking I guess.  Not sure if Masterbuilt watches these forums or not but I'll jump over on Twitter or Facebook next and see if I can get some help from Masterbuilt via those channels. 

I had held off doing any further disassembly/troubleshooting so as not to void my warranty...


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## Bearcarver (Jul 19, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> I got my MES40 unit in 2019 just before Christmas. The first one had some pretty good damage on a corner as FedEx brought it from SamsClub.com.
> 
> The replacement unit was rec'd after not much of a hassle.  I started using the new one around Christmas and it worked well but the first element burned open by May. This unit is on my screen porch up near the house and is not exposed to weather/moisture.  I found the listing for parts on the Masterbuilt website and the price of two replacement elements plus shipping was around $30.  This seemed fair as at least one seller on Amazon was at $30 for one element shipped.  It took over a week to show up in PA from GA (covid delays?).  Replacing the element was fairly easy and I did a few more cooks with it and it worked for a couple weeks.
> 
> ...




It has always been a hit or miss thing with Masterbuilt.
They used to be terrible with customers.
Then for awhile they were Great.
The last few years it's been the luck of the draw.

Back when it was going Good, there was a Masterbuilt guy here pretty often.
I haven't seen him for a long time.

Do you know which Generation you have?
Can you post pics---Inside & outside?

My Go-to guy here for fixing MES is  

 tallbm
 ---Hopefully he'll show up & give you a hand.

Bear


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## dr k (Jul 19, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> I got my MES40 unit in 2019 just before Christmas. The first one had some pretty good damage on a corner as FedEx brought it from SamsClub.com.
> 
> The replacement unit was rec'd after not much of a hassle.  I started using the new one around Christmas and it worked well but the first element burned open by May. This unit is on my screen porch up near the house and is not exposed to weather/moisture.  I found the listing for parts on the Masterbuilt website and the price of two replacement elements plus shipping was around $30.  This seemed fair as at least one seller on Amazon was at $30 for one element shipped.  It took over a week to show up in PA from GA (covid delays?).  Replacing the element was fairly easy and I did a few more cooks with it and it worked for a couple weeks.
> 
> ...


Go to the MB page on FB and messenger them. That's the fastest.


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 19, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> It has always been a hit or miss thing with Masterbuilt.
> They used to be terrible with customers.
> Then for awhile they were Great.
> The last few years it's been the luck of the draw.
> ...



Thanks for the responses guys
It’s a model 20075315

I have always kept the two foil pans on the bottom rack to catch drips and it keeps things cleaner and dry that way


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## Bearcarver (Jul 19, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> Thanks for the responses guys
> It’s a model 20075315
> 
> I have always kept the two foil pans on the bottom rack to catch drips and it keeps things cleaner and dry that way




Looks like the dreaded Generation #2.
That's the one I always recommend people stay away from.

It's bad to cover the whole width & depth with Foil pans or anything else, like that. It blocks the air flow through the smoker.
If you have to do that, at least put one on one rack & the other one above or below it.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Jul 19, 2020)

After thinking about that 2 pans being together, that could be what killed your element.
Those pans stopped the heat from rising past them, and the sensor is on the back wall, above those pans. So the Heating element kept putting out more heat, and the temp never got hot enough at the sensor to stop the element. So it just kept getting hotter & hotter & hotter.
Might be Lucky it didn't start on fire.
Note: The Safety Switch is also above those pans, so it couldn't do an Emergency Shut-Down!

Bear


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## Boslaw (Jul 20, 2020)

I too am having terrible luck getting MasterBuilt to reply to my warranty request via their contact form. It's been 15 days with only an acknowledgment that my message was received. I will try the Facebook message option next. If a company can't respond to a warranty request promptly, it makes me wonder if they are going to be around very long. That's a sign of understaffing due to financial issues.  For whatever it's worth, my MES140G has been used twice. The controller registers 20+ degrees higher than what the temperature in the smoker actually is, so my maximum temperature seems to be 255 rather than the advertised 275.


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## Bearcarver (Jul 20, 2020)

Boslaw said:


> I too am having terrible luck getting MasterBuilt to reply to my warranty request via their contact form. It's been 15 days with only an acknowledgment that my message was received. I will try the Facebook message option next. If a company can't respond to a warranty request promptly, it makes me wonder if they are going to be around very long. That's a sign of understaffing due to financial issues.  For whatever it's worth, my MES140G has been used twice. The controller registers 20+ degrees higher than what the temperature in the smoker actually is, so my maximum temperature seems to be 255 rather than the advertised 275.



I can only tell you what I read in my old owner's manual.
It said it's guaranteed to be within 25° accurate.

So in my opinion:
We paid for a Smoker that can go from 100° to 275°.
And if yours only gets to an actual 255°, that tells me you aren't getting what you paid for.
However if they only guaranteed 25° accuracy, that means they only guarantee 250°.
However I would stick to my guns & demand that I get the 275° actual Temp that I paid for.

I have always told guys that if their MES runs actually 30° hotter than the digital readout says, keep it & enjoy it, but don't run it over 300° for long periods.
But if their MES runs actually 30° below what the readout says, Tell them you want it fixed or replaced, because you paid for 275° Max.

Hope this helps,
Bear


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 20, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> After thinking about that 2 pans being together, that could be what killed your element.
> Those pans stopped the heat from rising past them, and the sensor is on the back wall, above those pans. So the Heating element kept putting out more heat, and the temp never got hot enough at the sensor to stop the element. So it just kept getting hotter & hotter & hotter.
> Might be Lucky it didn't start on fire.
> Note: The Safety Switch is also above those pans, so it couldn't do an Emergency Shut-Down!
> ...


 I can follow the logic Bear and maybe I did step in it by doing that but it still seemed to get plenty hot- I am certain that ariflow wasn't blocked off. The pans in the pic were not the ones I had been using.  Mistake noted though, thanks


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 20, 2020)

If anyone else has issues with Masterbuilt it is easy to find on Facebook via a computer.  Over the weekend I looked on FB with my cell and there was a ton of Masterbuilt "groups" but the "Mother ship" did not show up.  Going to https://www.facebook.com/masterbuilt will get you to their home page on FB and I attempted to use Messenger to get a note to them.

The replay was 
"Hello! Thank you for sending us a message. Please click on one of the options below so we can better assist you.
*Please note,  due to COVID-19 delivery times may be longer than usual and our selection of items available may be temporarily reduced. Our teams are working diligently to ensure your order is filled and shipped in a timely fashion. Customer Support response times may also be delayed up to 72-96 business hours. We appreciate your support."

Figured I'd quote them my case number and maybe able to get some assistance.


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## Boslaw (Jul 20, 2020)

I agree with the above. My manual only says guaranteed to within 15 degrees. Regardless, I paid for 275, and I'm going to complain until they try to get it right.


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## Boslaw (Jul 20, 2020)

I received a response through Facebook -- "Keep in mind, we do not recommend replying to your case email unless you are responding to a representative, as it will move you to the back of our queue"-- That's really odd behavior but good to know. Just by emailing them to ask for status, you get kicked to the back of the line. There's no other way to contact them for status without responding to your case email, so you have no choice but to wait in silence and hope they're reading, or harrass them through facebook.


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## tallbm (Jul 20, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> I got my MES40 unit in 2019 just before Christmas. The first one had some pretty good damage on a corner as FedEx brought it from SamsClub.com.
> 
> The replacement unit was rec'd after not much of a hassle.  I started using the new one around Christmas and it worked well but the first element burned open by May. This unit is on my screen porch up near the house and is not exposed to weather/moisture.  I found the listing for parts on the Masterbuilt website and the price of two replacement elements plus shipping was around $30.  This seemed fair as at least one seller on Amazon was at $30 for one element shipped.  It took over a week to show up in PA from GA (covid delays?).  Replacing the element was fairly easy and I did a few more cooks with it and it worked for a couple weeks.
> 
> ...



Hi there and welcome!
I can't help you with MB customer service but I can help you troubleshoot and see if there is an issue somewhere else in the unit.

Pull that other panel off the back and I'm pretty sure that may be your safety rollout limit switch.  Check the connectors there and check if the switch shows any signs of damage.
The connectors and that switch can fail and often do.  This may explain the lack of voltage making it to the heating element if the wiring at that point or the switch are failing.

If the switch is melting down u can simply splice the 2 wire ends together and the smoker will run without the switch and u can buy a replacement but keep smoking until then.  If the connectors are screwed u can repalce them with hi temp ones if you have them.

Let us know what you find there.


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## daspyknows (Jul 20, 2020)

Do a search on LinkedIn and find the name of the CEO, VP of customer service and VP of Marketing.  Send them direct emails.  When dealing with frustrating customer service I have had success.  I did that with Buffalo Technology after a network storage server died 2 weeks after warranty and was told by the the tech support person that I should expect things to break after warranty.  They replaced the unit.  Ultimately all 4 of their storage servers died but at least I got service.


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 21, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> I can't help you with MB customer service but I can help you troubleshoot and see if there is an issue somewhere else in the unit.
> 
> Pull that other panel off the back and I'm pretty sure that may be your safety rollout limit switch.  Check the connectors there and check if the switch shows any signs of damage.
> ...



Thanks for the input tallbm, I had pulled the cover and checked the other part. I figured that was likely the thermistor/thermostat but it looked clean and the connections are good.

with the unit plugged in and turned off it was showing 2.75vac








powered unit in but didn’t call for heat and voltage went up to 2.8vac (negligible difference).

Told it to heat and I show 116vac across the terminals but as I saw previously I had less than 2v to the element


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 21, 2020)

Boslaw said:


> Keep in mind, we do not recommend replying to your case email unless you are responding to a representative, as it will move you to the back of our queue"--



I think it’s unfortunate that a reply to your case on Masterbuilt pushes you back in the queue- not certain the benefits of assigning a case number only to push it out anytime the client (us) adds more info.

Thanks for sharing this info Boslaw, I did not have any emails stating this nor did the the quick reply I got thru FB messenger tell this. To be clear my reply was in 10 minutes after I told them my case number but only to say “we’ll try to get you some help from support”


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## tallbm (Jul 22, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> Thanks for the input tallbm, I had pulled the cover and checked the other part. I figured that was likely the thermistor/thermostat but it looked clean and the connections are good.
> 
> with the unit plugged in and turned off it was showing 2.75vac
> 
> ...



Ok this is interesting.

You are reading 116 VAC at that point which means you are getting current.
But you say that you get the equivalent of a no current reading when u try the same thing at the element when it is turned on?

The MES is pretty simple.
Plug wires go into the circuit board at the bottom.  
Wires come from the circuit board to the heating element (hot wire goes to safety switch then to heating element).
The controller reads temp inside the smoker and flips the relay switch on at the circuit board to allow electricity to flow from the plug to the heating element and to cut off electricity when set temp is hit.

So if you are reading current at the safety switch that means the controller and the circuit board are working and letting electricity flow through towards the element to that point.

It would be a good idea to do a similar check on the other wire that goes to the heating element.  Or do continuity checks checks on the wires coming from the circuit board through to the heating element.  Just make sure you have the connectors unplugged from the heating element when u are doing continuity checks or else you cant ever tell which wire u are testing from the circuit board to the heating element with the heating element connecting the wires together from that end :)

It has happened were people have found frayed or burnt up wiring in their MES which have caused problems.

Let us know what you find :)


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 22, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Ok this is interesting.
> 
> You are reading 116 VAC at that point which means you are getting current.
> But you say that you get the equivalent of a no current reading when u try the same thing at the element when it is turned on?
> ...



So the access to said circuit board is on the underside/bottom of the unit?
Thanks again
I'll report back in the morning


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 22, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> So the access to said circuit board is on the underside/bottom of the unit?
> Thanks again
> I'll report back in the morning



I got a look this morning and I see nothing melted/damaged/broken etc.  Wiring looks good. Solder joints look pretty good too.


















In the mean time MB replied this morning with “Thank you for contacting customer service. I have placed Sales Order xxxxxx for heating element and high temperature limiter. The order will ship within 3-5 business days. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.“. 

So I’ll wait longer and see what happens with the new parts.  I opened the case on 7/9 and got the first meaningful response 7/22.

Will resurrect the old Brinkman charcoal smoker in the mean time because I know it will work

cheers


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## dr k (Jul 22, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> I got a look this morning and I see nothing melted/damaged/broken etc.  Wiring looks good. Solder joints look pretty good too.
> 
> View attachment 455137
> 
> ...


Nice that you took pics in case you go to PID in the future. Cut and terminate together the red and black wires by your thumb that go to the black cube relay. The other red wire next to the white at your pinky are cut and terminated together and done. The red/white are terminated  at the circuit board so they are good left alone but I wanted to get away from those alum female quick disconnect lugs and wire nut vs potential alum oxide corroding them and messing with it later. Plug into a plug and play Auber. When you look at the heating element lugs they both may not be red because they sometimes chage wire colors from the roll out switch to the element. I   checked continuity between the two power cord spades and open circuit to each spade from the power cord ground pin and continuity from ground power cord pin to the chassis/body of the smoker.


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## tallbm (Jul 23, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> I got a look this morning and I see nothing melted/damaged/broken etc.  Wiring looks good. Solder joints look pretty good too.
> 
> View attachment 455137
> 
> ...




So for clarity sake.  Have you confirmed u get 116vac to each wire going to the heating element?
so far u get it going to the wire that goes to the safety switch which leads me to believe it makes it to the element on that wire.

If you have/can confirm that at least u get power to the wire end going to the heating element then we can basically lean toward something wrong with the element.

A continuity check would be a safer way to go about it but u need to be sure and unhook the wires from the element or else everything will ring true on the continuity... in normal cases ahhaha


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 24, 2020)

tallbm said:


> So for clarity sake.  Have you confirmed u get 116vac to each wire going to the heating element?
> so far u get it going to the wire that goes to the safety switch which leads me to believe it makes it to the element on that wire.
> 
> If you have/can confirm that at least u get power to the wire end going to the heating element then we can basically lean toward something wrong with the element.
> ...



Hi Tallbm

I got the 116vac across the terminals of the "temperature limiter" but not through it.  The element still measured 12.2 ohms so its not open and that number seems to be right to me.  My guess was that the temp limiter was not passing the current on to the element but I don't have a schematic.  Just planned to swap the part when it arrives and should know immediately if that was a good fix or not.

I did look at some of the talk on here about a PID.  It seems the Auber is the favorite but it looked to be about $160 vs I saw an inkbird PID for $40...  I have not had a lot of time to get my options straight but I feel certain it has been discussed at length on SMF so i just need to do my research.

Sorry I didn't do more research before buying the smoker I bought.  Sounded like the specific model I came up with was a bit of a loser   :0)

I'll see what the various opinions point to for another purchase.  I guess if you have two smokers (or three...) you'll have better options.


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## JC in GB (Jul 24, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> Hi Tallbm
> 
> I got the 116vac across the terminals of the "temperature limiter" but not through it.  The element still measured 12.2 ohms so its not open and that number seems to be right to me.  My guess was that the temp limiter was not passing the current on to the element but I don't have a schematic.  Just planned to swap the part when it arrives and should know immediately if that was a good fix or not.
> 
> ...



I will be offering a PID controller system to resurrect a single burner style master built smoker for under $100 in the next few weeks.  Perhaps you may be interested in that for controlling the temp in your pit?



JC


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## reddigreen (Jul 24, 2020)

JC in GB said:


> I will be offering a PID controller system to resurrect a single burner style master built smoker for under $100 in the next few weeks.  Perhaps you may be interested in that for controlling the temp in your pit?
> 
> 
> 
> JC


I might be. Please keep me/us in the loop.


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## hooked on smoke (Jul 24, 2020)

That's a bummer.
I would think that if you have records of reporting the issue prior to the 8 mo. period you mentioned they should still validate the warranty. If they didn't cooperate within the 8 mo. That on them.
You started a claim within the warranty period. They need to honor it. Keep at em.
Good luck


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## Jonok (Jul 24, 2020)

Wow, I’m really surprised you’ve had so many problems  My experience has been the  opposite..  I have burned up 4 sams club 40 inchers, and paid for one (as well as the $30 extended warranty each time). Three of them were supported very well as I did my best to use them to death, with a ridiculous amount of free spare parts provided until either there was a death knell like blowing  the GFCI consistently, or running out the warranty period at which point the extended warranty kicked in.  In every case, I ultimately got a check for a new smoker after I used the damned thing way more than a “consumer“  could be expected to use it in the same time period.
They’ve got to make a profit as well, and for an average guy that does a smoke or two a month, the thing is almost certainly going to outlast the three year warranty if one keeps it out of the weather. (At which point if it breaks, it’s still gonna be the best 40” electric smoker for less than $1000 with a few aftermarket mods). For $3-500, that’s not really an unreasonable  life expectation.


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## tallbm (Jul 24, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> Hi Tallbm
> 
> I got the 116vac across the terminals of the "temperature limiter" but not through it.  The element still measured 12.2 ohms so its not open and that number seems to be right to me.  My guess was that the temp limiter was not passing the current on to the element but I don't have a schematic.  Just planned to swap the part when it arrives and should know immediately if that was a good fix or not.
> 
> ...




Pardon my confusion a bit so please bear with me lol.
The following image shows 116vac into (electricity in from bottom) and out (electricity out form top) pf the switch according to how the probes are positioned (switch is normally closed allowing flow through):






The switch seems fine so maybe there is a break in the wire coming from the top of the switch and going to the heating element because the switch is normally closed so if it was failing in open positioned you shouldnt have gotten 116vac when u measured the bottom (elecricity in) and the top (electricity out) tabs.

Unless I am completely brain farting on something, which happens, what I am seeing is the switch is fine according to the image.  
Unplugging the connectors from the switch and unplugging from the heating element you should be able to do a continuity check from the top wire (should be that one) at the switch to one of the unhooked wire ends at the heating element.
If u get no continuity confirmation that something is happening with the wire between the switch and the element.  Peoples wires have had problems in the body before so its not unheard of just not so common.

Let me know if I'm missing something here and please dont take any of this as I'm questioning your ability or knowledge lol.  I'm just looking for troubleshooting info and its hard to know the situation across the internet and across written text :)


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 25, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Pardon my confusion a bit so please bear with me lol.
> The following image shows 116vac into (electricity in from bottom) and out (electricity out form top) pf the switch according to how the probes are positioned (switch is normally closed allowing flow through):
> View attachment 455463
> 
> ...



Ok sorry tallbmfor the delay,It seems that there are more tasks to accomplish than hours in the day. I appreciate your help any willingness to follow up.

 I know in my previous pic I showed 116 vac across the terminals of the switch but much like any light switch in your house (Even ones that are off) you can measure voltage because it is available at the switch but it doesn’t get sent to the light until the switch is closed.  It seems to me that this limiter switch may be normally closed but opens up in order to stop the flow of current if the limit is reached?  Or when it fails?

My switch measures open both ways (Regardless of the polarity of my meter leads) so again I feel that the potential was AT the switch but not being sent on to the element.  

In the hope of answering your question as well as putting out some information that hopefully others may find useful at some point I tagged my terminals with simple one through four numbers and set about checking for continuity.










Before any continuity checks took place yes I did disconnect the wiring from the terminals of the limiter switch and also from the element. Rather than post all of the pictures and hog bandwidth I will say that terminal two shows perfect continuity with terminal three so the wire from the switch is still intact to the element. I did not go as far as to disassemble the cover from the bottom of the unit to reveal the circuit board again but my gut feeling is that a wire from that relay is probably feeding the other side of the element and with the limit switch open no current may flow.  This is only a guess.  

I did disassemble the limiter switch from the unit in preparation for receiving the new one although I still have not seen anything to lead me to believe that the parts have actually shipped from MB yet as they told me 3 to 5 days until shipment takes place earlier when they did answer me.  Having somewhat of a electronics background I thought I might be a wise guy and look at the part number on said limiter switch to see if they are something you can buy off-the-shelf for ~$.79 apiece from our favorite parts supplier like mouser.com but it appears (and I say appears) that the part number was scratched off to the point of not being readable.







So I’ll report back when the new limit switch is received and my hope is that it will allow my smoker to contribute more than just providing a puzzle for me to solve.


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 25, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> Ok sorry tallbmfor the delay,It seems that there are more tasks to accomplish than hours in the day. I appreciate your help any willingness to follow up.
> 
> I know in my previous pic I showed 116 vac across the terminals of the switch but much like any light switch in your house (Even ones that are off) you can measure voltage because it is available at the switch but it doesn’t get sent to the light until the switch is closed.  It seems to me that this limiter switch may be normally closed but opens up in order to stop the flow of current if the limit is reached?  Or when it fails?
> 
> ...



I did locate a part number on the device.  I had expected it to be on the metal face of the part and have seen some with marking on the face- this one is marked on the plastic side







Here’s a link to a spec sheet

https://www.calcoelectric.com/images/pdfs_thermostats/calco_ksd301series.pdf

and the device does come with various temperature differentials depending upon the application

they are cheap enough on eBay etc that once the proper full part number is discerned I’ll have a spare taped to the back in a ziploc


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## tallbm (Jul 25, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> I did locate a part number on the device.  I had expected it to be on the metal face of the part and have seen some with marking on the face- this one is marked on the plastic side
> 
> View attachment 455574
> 
> ...



Hey thanks for the info!  The switch should be normally closed so if it is reading open that that seems to be the problem.  Your switch looks a little beat up as well and those things are fragile.
If you wiggle or bend the tabs in any way the switch will melt down over time.... I've replaced enough of them because of this and the fact that they are cheap to know hahaha.

These will do the trick: 

The 150C rating is the one that are used.  Also notice when shopping that the link I posted has the proper design.  There is another design where the face is not all one piece and that is the wrong type, the I posted has the one piece face.

IF you can find a ceramic version I think it would hold up better vs melting down due to being plastic.

Also if you ever wanna go the PID controller route you can use a switch with a higher limit to get higher temps but understand that the foam insulation has a rating probably not more than 325 or so.

I hope this info helps :)


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 27, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Hey thanks for the info!  The switch should be normally closed so if it is reading open that that seems to be the problem.  Your switch looks a little beat up as well and those things are fragile.
> If you wiggle or bend the tabs in any way the switch will melt down over time.... I've replaced enough of them because of this and the fact that they are cheap to know hahaha.
> 
> These will do the trick:
> ...



I ordered them and they should be here tomorrow- still have not seen anything further from MB that they shipped the parts so when they do I'll have a another spare.  Thanks for your input on this Tallbm


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 27, 2020)

Jonok said:


> Wow, I’m really surprised you’ve had so many problems  My experience has been the  opposite..  I have burned up 4 sams club 40 inchers, and paid for one (as well as the $30 extended warranty each time). Three of them were supported very well as I did my best to use them to death, with a ridiculous amount of free spare parts provided until either there was a death knell like blowing  the GFCI consistently, or running out the warranty period at which point the extended warranty kicked in.  In every case, I ultimately got a check for a new smoker after I used the damned thing way more than a “consumer“  could be expected to use it in the same time period.
> They’ve got to make a profit as well, and for an average guy that does a smoke or two a month, the thing is almost certainly going to outlast the three year warranty if one keeps it out of the weather. (At which point if it breaks, it’s still gonna be the best 40” electric smoker for less than $1000 with a few aftermarket mods). For $3-500, that’s not really an unreasonable  life expectation.



Hey Jonok
I'm glad your experience has been positive- this may be a case where the extended warranty is the right thing to do when buying from Sam's Club.  I have had a couple bumps in the road but so far the fixes on this are very simple.  It turns out the wait is magnified if you have to wait on MB support vs if you just get the parts yourself and do it!


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## Boslaw (Jul 27, 2020)

Follow up to my post -- Masterbuilt did get back to me and offer to ship a new controller, but not until October <!> - something about covid. They are also sending me a free accessory kit (chicken stand, rib hanger, etc) since the controller will take so long. I guess I can't ask for much more than that.


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## ItsMeAgain (Jul 31, 2020)

Boslaw said:


> Follow up to my post -- Masterbuilt did get back to me and offer to ship a new controller, but not until October <!> - something about covid. They are also sending me a free accessory kit (chicken stand, rib hanger, etc) since the controller will take so long. I guess I can't ask for much more than that.



Glad to hear the good news Boslaw.   October is a long time to wait but kudos for keeping it positive.

My parts arrived yesterday and installing the new thermostat was a piece of cake and does indeed allow the unit to heat again.  I have ample spares now so this type of fail won't slow me down next time.  
Have a great weekend


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## tallbm (Jul 31, 2020)

ItsMeAgain said:


> Glad to hear the good news Boslaw.   October is a long time to wait but kudos for keeping it positive.
> 
> My parts arrived yesterday and installing the new thermostat was a piece of cake and does indeed allow the unit to heat again.  I have ample spares now so this type of fail won't slow me down next time.
> Have a great weekend



Nice man!  Those switches are cheap and touchy so if one melts down on u during a smoke just cut the wires and wire nut the wire ends together to get through your smoke.  At that point u can keep it that way or make the time to put in another switch.

I can tell u that if u moved/wiggled/bent the tabs in any form or fashion where they fasten to the back of the switch (plastic) the switch will melt down on you at some point.... I've lived it man hahaha.
So if u have a failure check there first.

Best of luck with it! :)


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