# New to smoking



## Umphatic (Apr 27, 2020)

Good morning all!   Wanted to briefly introduce myself as I am new to smoking and new to this group!    Just purchased a Traeger pellet grill (Silverton Costco exclusive) here last summer.  I've grilled on it quite a few times which i am happy with and I have done  just a couple of smokes on it.   
This weekend I tried my hand at a 8.6 lb pork butt.   The process seems simple, however, it seemed to take A LOT longer than I thought it would, and the meat seemed dry especially on the reheat.  My method was:  trim extra fat to expose more surface area, rub with byrons butt rub and let sit in fridge over night.   Pulled it out an hour before smoking.  Fired up the smoker and set to 225.  Put it on naked and did not wrap as I wanted more bark.  Time on the smoker was 7:30 pm Friday night.  Time pulled was 2:00 pm Saturday.  Internal temp was 195.  Wrapped in foil, blanket, and cooler for 45 minutes before shredding.  Seemed on the dry side to me.   Any advice on what I did wrong?   Pictures attached.


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## bregent (Apr 27, 2020)

Welcome. That does look a bit overdone and 19 hours is a long time for a 8lb butt in a pellet grill. What was your criteria for pulling it. Were you check for probe tenderness, or just try to achieve a specific internal temperature?


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## BigW. (Apr 27, 2020)

Do you have another therm that you could use to check grill temp?  You may have been cooking lower than 225.  Was there much juice in the foil when you unwrapped?  That juice is always good mixed back in (fat removed if you like)  After you know grill temp, feel free to cook a bit hotter.  Will speed up the process and you do not lose anything.


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## noboundaries (Apr 27, 2020)

Welcome to SMF and congrats on the new smoker. A universal rule is a dry pork but is an undercooked pork butt. Overcooked is mushy and falls apart, but still moist.

First, internal temp is a guide, not a destination. 195F is a bit low for pulled pork, but a lot depends on the animal and the meat packager's prep. When a probe slides easily into the meat, you are done, and the temp could be anywhere from 195F to 210F, although 210F is rare.

Second, 19 hours at a constant 225F for an 8 lb is about right, but you needed 1-2 hours more to melt all the tough collagen to get juicy, tender meat. Tough cuts get their juiciness from melted collagen, and meat absorbs less heat as the meat temp rises and the differential narrows between chamber temp and meat temp. For that reason I recommend folks bump the temp up to 250+ toward the end of a smoke.

You were so close. Next time will be perfect.


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## Umphatic (Apr 27, 2020)

Umphatic said:


> Good morning all!   Wanted to briefly introduce myself as I am new to smoking and new to this group!    Just purchased a Traeger pellet grill (Silverton Costco exclusive) here last summer.  I've grilled on it quite a few times which i am happy with and I have done  just a couple of smokes on it.
> This weekend I tried my hand at a 8.6 lb pork butt.   The process seems simple, however, it seemed to take A LOT longer than I thought it would, and the meat seemed dry especially on the reheat.  My method was:  trim extra fat to expose more surface area, rub with byrons butt rub and let sit in fridge over night.   Pulled it out an hour before smoking.  Fired up the smoker and set to 225.  Put it on naked and did not wrap as I wanted more bark.  Time on the smoker was 7:30 pm Friday night.  Time pulled was 2:00 pm Saturday.  Internal temp was 195.  Wrapped in foil, blanket, and cooler for 45 minutes before shredding.  Seemed on the dry side to me.   Any advice on what I did wrong?   Pictures attached.





noboundaries said:


> Welcome to SMF and congrats on the new smoker. A universal rule is a dry pork but is an undercooked pork butt. Overcooked is mushy and falls apart, but still moist.
> 
> First, internal temp is a guide, not a destination. 195F is a bit low for pulled pork, but a lot depends on the animal and the meat packager's prep. When a probe slides easily into the meat, you are done, and the temp could be anywhere from 195F to 210F, although 210F is rare.
> 
> ...



I ordered a Thermo Pro T-20 that should be arriving sometime this week that will allow me to clip one probe in the smoker and one to the meat.  That way I can monitor temp.   I have heard theories involving wrapping in foil 5 hours into the smoke, or, if smoking naked, put a pan with water/beer/apple juice to keep the humidity inside up.    Does any of that make a difference or was this thing just undercooked?   Seems to me two 5 lb butts would be a better plan that one 8-9 lber just to save on materials.


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## BigW. (Apr 27, 2020)

Lots of different ways to do it.  Everyone has their own way that they like.  You can try different ways until you find what you like.  Tin foil will speed things up, but bark will be softer.  You will like the Thermo Pro.  It will help a ton.  I'd do the next one a bit hotter and wait till pork is in the lower 200 range.  Bone will pull easily and meat will shred easily.  At 195 my guess was some pulled easily and other parts seemed tough...lots of work to pull apart??


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## Umphatic (Apr 27, 2020)

BigW. said:


> Lots of different ways to do it.  Everyone has their own way that they like.  You can try different ways until you find what you like.  Tin foil will speed things up, but bark will be softer.  You will like the Thermo Pro.  It will help a ton.  I'd do the next one a bit hotter and wait till pork is in the lower 200 range.  Bone will pull easily and meat will shred easily.  At 195 my guess was some pulled easily and other parts seemed tough...lots of work to pull apart??



BigW -  You are exactly right.  Some parts shredded easily some took some work and the other thing i noticed was not a lot of juice.   So the next time I will try these adjustments that you advised.

The other question I have is in regards to the 'smoke setting'   I noticed that when you have it in that mode you are usually around 160-170 degrees.  Seems to me that it would be a substantially longer amount of time as well as risk not getting above the danger zone.  Do guys typically mess with the smoke setting much?


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## smokeymose (Apr 27, 2020)

Umphatic said:


> BigW -  You are exactly right.  Some parts shredded easily some took some work and the other thing i noticed was not a lot of juice.   So the next time I will try these adjustments that you advised.
> 
> The other question I have is in regards to the 'smoke setting'   I noticed that when you have it in that mode you are usually around 160-170 degrees.  Seems to me that it would be a substantially longer amount of time as well as risk not getting above the danger zone.  Do guys typically mess with the smoke setting much?


I don't have a pellet smoker, but those temps sound like what you would want for smoking cured sausage, not cooking...


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## BigW. (Apr 27, 2020)

The danger zone is for ground meats.  Not whole muscle meat.  My pellet does not have a smoke setting.  Some will keep on smoke setting for an hour or two then crank up heat I believe.  Others may not use smoke setting at all.   Just the temp you want to cook at.  You could also use a stronger flavored wood like hickory for more flavor.   Your next effort will be better, and then continue to be better each time.


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## Umphatic (Apr 27, 2020)

BigW. said:


> The danger zone is for ground meats.  Not whole muscle meat.  My pellet does not have a smoke setting.  Some will keep on smoke setting for an hour or two then crank up heat I believe.  Others may not use smoke setting at all.   Just the temp you want to cook at.  You could also use a stronger flavored wood like hickory for more flavor.   Your next effort will be better, and then continue to be better each time.



BigW - So what is your method for a pork butt, say an 8.5 pounder.  Does 19 hours seem appropriate?


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## noboundaries (Apr 27, 2020)

It was undercooked...period.

There is no perfect way to smoke/cook/roast a pork butt. I've done hundreds over the decades. You can literally salt and pepper a pork butt and throw it in a smoker/oven/grill anywhere from 225F to 375F and with enough time it will become tender and juicy. Heat and time are required, and there's nothing consistent or perfect about either cooking temp, time, or method.

A big assumption people make once they find what works for them is that they've found the perfect route to success. Wrapping, brining, not wrapping, not brining, injecting or not, it all works. You can have a significant impact on flavor and the clock, but only heat and time will give you a tender butt and melted collagen.

I learned to cook pork butts in an oven. Then a slow cooker. Then the stovetop. And finally a grill (charcoal and gas) and a smoker.  I too read about all the variables and techniques, and when I ignored my experience and tried to smoke to temp and the clock, got inconsistent results. When I returned to heat, time, and probing for tenderness, I haven't had a bad butt since no matter what method I used.

Thermometers are tools, not the answer, to a tender butt. I use them. They help, but can't tell you when your butt is tender. Only sticking a probe in the meat as it nears completion will tell you if the butt is butter tender and done.  Learn that feel first. It only takes one or two butts.

You can do exactly what you did above and leave it on longer to get a tender butt. You can crank the heat up after the stall and save time. You can crank the heat up right from the beginning and save more time. You can wrap in foil and get a soft bark, au jus you can use, and save a little time.  No matter what you do, the "feel" of a tender butt with a probe is the same.


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## Umphatic (Apr 27, 2020)

noboundaries said:


> It was undercooked...period.
> 
> There is no perfect way to smoke/cook/roast a pork butt. I've done hundreds over the decades. You can literally salt and pepper a pork butt and throw it in a smoker/oven/grill anywhere from 225F to 375F and with enough time it will become tender and juicy. Heat and time are required, and there's nothing consistent or perfect about either cooking temp, time, or method.
> 
> ...



Thank you noboundaries.  I definitely appreciate the feedback.  Just ordered a thermopro T20 thermomter that will allow me to test the inside temp of the traeger to ensure that it matches what the readout says.   To clarify, increasing temp past 250 or even 275 is perfectly ok and will not dry out the meat?


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## Glock9x19 (Apr 27, 2020)

275 is totally fine


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## kruizer (Apr 27, 2020)

Welcome to SMF from Minnesota.


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## noboundaries (Apr 27, 2020)

Umphatic said:


> To clarify, increasing temp past 250 or even 275 is perfectly ok and will not dry out the meat?


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## noboundaries (Apr 27, 2020)

Having problem staying connected. Lost my answer, but yes, 275F will not dry out the meat. Will explain later.


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## Blues1 (Apr 27, 2020)

Good advice given here...welcome from SC!


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## noboundaries (Apr 27, 2020)

Let's try this again.

Beef steaks/lean roasts, pork loins/sirloins/chops, and poultry white meat will all dry out if cooked to a high finishing temp. Cooking to temp works well for these meats.

Well exercised muscles, on any animal, have strong connective tissue called collagen. It has to melt before the meat gets tender. If it remains, the meat will taste dry and tough. Most assume it was overcookeded. Nope. Undercooked. 

On a pig, tough muscles are commonly the shoulder (butt and picnic). On beef, that the chuck cuts (brisket, chuck roasts, clod). On poultry it's the legs and thighs.

Collagen melts with heat over time, and high finishing meat temps are the indication that you are achieving your goal. Overcooked butts are mushy, juicy, and fall apart. Overcooked briskets crumble. Chicken thighs/legs/quarters, which get tender in the 170's meat temp, can still be juicy and tender into the 190s, but they too will fall apart if overcooked. Probe a thigh in the low160s and you'll feel resistance. Wait until the mid-high 170s, and the probe will slide right in.

Know your meats. What works for one cut won't work for another. Butts are extremely forgiving...unless taken off too soon. Beef tri tips masquerade as steaks, roasts, and briskets, changing texture while remaining tender and juicy at finishing temps between 115F to 190F. They are simply amazing cuts.


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## noboundaries (Apr 27, 2020)

One more thing for butts. Yes, you can cook/smoke/roast them at any chamber temp between 225F to 350F, but the higher temps have some cautions. 

If your rub has a lot of sugar, it will burn. Same with spritzing if you do that. The bark is also deeper at high chamber temps if the meat isn't wrapped earlier. Chamber temps of 225-275, even 300, are not a problem. Sugarless rubs are fine with chamber temps above 300F.


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## Umphatic (Apr 28, 2020)

noboundaries said:


> One more thing for butts. Yes, you can cook/smoke/roast them at any chamber temp between 225F to 350F, but the higher temps have some cautions.
> 
> If your rub has a lot of sugar, it will burn. Same with spritzing if you do that. The bark is also deeper at high chamber temps if the meat isn't wrapped earlier. Chamber temps of 225-275, even 300, are not a problem. Sugarless rubs are fine with chamber temps above 300F.



Thank you everyone for the advice/tips/ and overall information.  Going to give this a go again and see what shakes out.  I tested my old thermometer  yesterday, first in boiling water and then in ice water.  The read out for ice water was 59 degrees and the read out for boilling water  was 270.  So definitely part of the problem and I am glad that I have a Thermopro on the way!


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