# Pellet Smokers in Competitions - Your opinion



## lcgc

My wife and I started competing about three years ago and have had a blast so far.  One think I have noticed are more pellet smokers.  Every team I have ever set up next to always have the same opinion about these pellet smokers.  The opinion seems to be they are acceptable for the backyard bbq but should not be allowed in competitions.  There was a trailer that pulled in this weekend and the guy next to me says "Great, we have a guy with two Easy Bake ovens".  He was referring to two gravity fed pellet cookers on the back of this trailer.

We talked a couple more times about the pellet cookers and after thinking about my past conversations with my other neighbors, it seems like we the same issue come up.

Part of the challenge of cooking competition bbq should be about maintaining a constant temperature using wood logs.  Nothing has been mentioned about fan controllers.  Just the pellet smokers.  The biggest challenge is keeping a constant temperature without the assistance on an electric auger to feed the fire.  Also controlling air flow and the responsibility of the cook to get up out of bed during the night to tend their fire.

I look forward to the responses.


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## JckDanls 07

I agree whole heartedly ...  no kind of electric at all... charcoal and/or wood only ...


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## SmokinAl

I didn't think electrics were allowed in competitions.

Al


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## lcgc

They're pellet cookers. Not the electric types like Masterbuilt. I hope I'm describing this correctly.


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## lcgc

The first two paragraphs explain exactly what I'm talking about. 

http://www.rectecgrills.com/how-it-works/


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## JckDanls 07

yes...  and they still use electric...  I say BS ...  charcoal/wood and air vents only...


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## sfprankster

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## bbqbrett

Yeah, I don't think they should be allowed.  I guess I am a bit of a purist but the machine is doing all the temp control and no real challenges for the competitors.


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## sfprankster

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## lcgc

sfprankster said:


> Shouldn't be, but you see them everywhere...
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> They take the guesswork out of the pit and really simplify a major portion of the effort...


I don't have a pit controller so I don't know if I am for or against them since you still have to physically add wood to your fire.

What I do know is that I got under two hours of sleep this past Friday so I could maintain my fire.  While the pellet guy slept all night while his meat cooked in his electric oven.


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## JckDanls 07

Some say they shouldn't even be allowed to use digital remote therms....  




> So pit controllers are out as well?
> 
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> charcoal: check
> wood: check
> air vents: check
> electric: check
> 
> :confused:



"pit controller" ...   what does it run off  ??


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## lcgc

JckDanls 07 said:


> Some say they shouldn't even be allowed to use digital remote therms....
> "pit controller" ...   what does it run off  ??



That's why I'm kinda on the fence on a pit controller.


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## sfprankster

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## lcgc

I don't see a problem with instant read thermometers. Mainly for food safety more than anything. We were in a competition last month where there were disqualifications due to raw meat.


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## bbqer-ma

Pellet smokers nor bbq guru type units should be allowed!!! If you think about it a Pellet smoker has an electrode lit all the time to ignite the pellets, by def of kcbs rules that would be a HEAT SOURCE run by elec, SAme for Elec draft control devices, if you are allowed to use Pellet smokers, and draft controls, they might as well let U use gas smokers, or what the hell cook in the oven of your moterhome or camper!! lol We are competing against the "big Boys" this weekend at Mohegan Sun in conn. I gaurentee you they will be using Pellet smokers and Gurus. My buddy who cooks with me would quit if I ever bought a draft controller, his idea of competing is to stay up and tend the pits. I wonder how they would do if they didn't have thier pellet smokers and gurus,and had to stay up and cook instead of going to bed after putting thier meats in the smoker !! Heaven Forbid if something goes wrong it will set off the buzzer and wake them out of a sound sleep LOL  remote meat therms are ok as it at least lets you keep from opening the lid as much. I love getting a call knowing we did our cook the way I thought comps were supposed to be cooked. I know for a fact we could improve our scores using draft controllers, but if was going to do that i'd just go back to playing Golf instead of BBQ comps "both expensive hobbies !!'

Mike


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## bbqer-ma

By the way, Anyone want to come cook with a 2 man team in the Mohegan Sun contest this weekend to se what cooking a comp is like? We can always use a helping hand and new ideas, We are doing the sunday KCBS using "Bare naked BBQ' (no Controlers) as well as 2 Peoples choice contests on Sat.


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## mowin

[/quote]





bbqer-ma said:


> Pellet smokers nor bbq guru type units should be allowed!!! If you think about it a Pellet smoker has an electrode lit all the time to ignite the pellets.
> Mike



The ignitor doesn't stay "lit" or have power to it all the time. It's only powered when first turning the smoker on. Once the pellets catch, they burn on there own without any power to keep them lit.


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## sfprankster

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## bbqbrett

LCGC said:


> I don't see a problem with instant read thermometers. Mainly for food safety more than anything. We were in a competition last month where there were disqualifications due to raw meat.



I agree with that.  Also the thermometers are used to take the temp of the meat, not regulate the temp of the pit, it is not designed to affect the cook.  In any case you could just use a standard meat thermometer and it would just take a moment anyways.


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## JckDanls 07

By all means  an instant read therm (or the like) is to be used...  that's for safety reasons  obviously ...


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## rogerwilco

Guys, the rules clearly allow one to use a pellet grill....no one is cheating in these competitions. So sayeth the judges. This kind of reminds me of the first time a forward pass was thrown during a football game. It stopped the play for some time, as the other team yelled "foul," right up till the officials stated there was nothing in the official rules debarring the use of a pass. The rest is history, even though many felt at the time that it was cheating or somehow unfair.

 Perhaps a new organization should be started, one that doesn't allow all the cheating......like metal cookers. Real barbecue is cooked over an open trench: none of that sissy pull-behind-an-RV stink-pot iron contraptions. And, great-granddaddy didn't have no thermometer, hell no,let alone some fancy digital number, so these should possibly be banned from competition as well. Propane torches for starting a fire? Aluminum foil? Power injectors?


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## smokinhawgbbq

RogerWilco said:


> Guys, the rules clearly allow one to use a pellet grill....no one is cheating in these competitions. So sayeth the judges. This kind of reminds me of the first time a forward pass was thrown during a football game. It stopped the play for some time, as the other team yelled "foul," right up till the officials stated there was nothing in the official rules debarring the use of a pass. The rest is history, even though many felt at the time that it was cheating or somehow unfair.
> 
> Perhaps a new organization should be started, one that doesn't allow all the cheating......like metal cookers. Real barbecue is cooked over an open trench: none of that sissy pull-behind-an-RV stink-pot iron contraptions. And, great-granddaddy didn't have no thermometer, hell no,let alone some fancy digital number, so these should possibly be banned from competition as well. Propane torches for starting a fire? Aluminum foil? Power injectors?


Not that anyone's Cheating, It's just the major part of a Comp is Maintaining your pit temps and times, and they are regulated and adjusted by the pellet smoker or pit controller, not the compeditor, once programed. To me the whole purpose of comps should be maintaining the temps in your pits to get your results, you might as well be allowed to use gas, set the dial to the temp you want,no different than filling a hopper with pellets and programming the controller to maintain your temp. just hope you don't run out of gas, or your elec. go out

Mike


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## lcgc

Yeah, I'm not saying they are cheating at all. Like some people have said, the biggest challenge is maintaining your fire over the duration of the cook.


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## bauchjw

I've never done a competition, but How much does sponsor's money factor in? I was under a very ignorant assumption, from what TV edits, that competition smokers did stay up all night and tend the pit? If all the big boys do it I am assuming they have sponsors who may influence? 

Not to throw darts, but....
- For the football analogy a drone throwing forward passes in football is a better analogy. Human intuition, art, and knowledge of science verse a programmed algorithm. 
- For real BBQ being in an open trench it's not a complete fact. There is plenty examples through history of BBQ being done on stink pot iron contraptions. However, the common theme, including open earth pits, up until recently is a Pit Master controlling heat and smoke. 

While I'm not a competition person, as someone who admires the craft, it seems like pellet smokers should be for the backyard.


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## sfprankster

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## rogerwilco

bauchjw said:


> I've never done a competition, but How much does sponsor's money factor in? I was under a very ignorant assumption, from what TV edits, that competition smokers did stay up all night and tend the pit? If all the big boys do it I am assuming they have sponsors who may influence?
> 
> Not to throw darts, but....
> - For the football analogy a drone throwing forward passes in football is a better analogy. Human intuition, art, and knowledge of science verse a programmed algorithm.
> - For real BBQ being in an open trench it's not a complete fact. There is plenty examples through history of BBQ being done on stink pot iron contraptions. However, the common theme, including open earth pits, up until recently is a Pit Master controlling heat and smoke.
> 
> While I'm not a competition person, as someone who admires the craft, it seems like pellet smokers should be for the backyard.


 Not to put too fine a point on it, but....

 -The football analogy was was intended only to illustrate how people have, in the past,  misconstrued "the rules" as preventing an action which was indeed allowable. For some time after that first pass there were those who still considered it to be outside the spirit of the competition, and far removed from the art, knowledge and science of a ground-game; any drudge could chunk a ball to a guy some yards distant.

  I, rashly, jumped to the conclusion that posters thought the use of pellet cookers to be cheating, as in an actual violation of the rules, when no one actually used that term. But in a broad sense that is still the impression I'm left with: that it is an unfair advantage in the otherwise time-honored art of cookin' BBQ, and something akin to cheating, in spirit at least.

As for "real BBQ".....

 My statement concerning trenches was intended merely as tongue-in-cheek, hoping to convey that one can always reduce a thing to what can be considered a more "pure" environment. However, stink-pot iron contraptions, regardless of how timeless their use might seem to many, can only go back as far as the Iron Age. Man's widespread control of fire (and cookin" BBQ couldn't be too far behind that) goes back to at least the Middle Paleolithic period.

 I hear 'ya concerning pellet cookers in backyards. This is where mine is located. It produces very good food and in a completely boring manner: connect a power cord,fill a hopper, flip a switch, adjust a digital readout and watch the wisps of smoke rise. My wife loves it. I still prefer my horizontal iron contraption because it gives me a sense of connection with all those who have gone before, in maintaining a tradition of the pit master's art. The food tastes pretty darned good, too!

 I personally feel that competitions would benefit from a separation of technologies which can be used in various "classes," just as black powder shooters compete in different classes, or even whole competitions, than those shooters using modern smokeless arms.

 I think most of us would much rather contest a game of chess against another person, than against a computer.

 And lastly, I feel the biggest problem with BBQing is them sumbitches what uses molded charcoal briquettes: that just ain't right.......:)


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## bbqbrett

Technically, the use of a remote thermometer could be construed in the same manner as a pit controller.

Hypothetical situation:
The remote thermometer alarm goes off, waking a competitor to a situation that requires a response. The competitor closes/opens vents, adds fuel, etc. How is this any different than using the alarms on a pit controller to do the same response? I really don't see any difference. 


Going off on another tangent:

Hypothetical situation #2:
Is it fair for a team to bring Kobe or Wagyu beef to the competition, when it may not be available to every competitor? Whether due to financial constraints or outside the "spirit" of the competition.



The main reason I purchased a pit controller was to make my overnight smokes easier and less stressful. I'm not 20 anymore and staying up all night isn't my cup of tea. I own my business and the effects of staying up all night are far from productive. If there is a tool that makes a task easier, and I can afford it, I'm going to use it, without any feelings of guilt that I circumvented the "spirit" of a competition.
[/quote]


In the first situation are you talking about one of the automatic fans that kicks on to regulate the pit temp or automatically drops more fuel to the fire? 

If so there is a big difference between that and someone who has to get up and manually adjust.  In one scenario the person is doing the actual work while the machine is doing it in the other.  Also as you pointed out the whole sleep thing could make a difference as well.

The second scenario is an interesting question.  I have known people that don't have the most expensive cuts of meat still place well and even win some contests.  Really I think it is an advantage for some people and not others.  Some people are good at the craft and know how to cook the food, use their equipment properly and have good flavor profiles.  Other people are not as good at those things and would probably be at a disadvantage even with the best cuts of meat.

Good questions makes people have to think!


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## bauchjw

RogerWilco said:


> Not to put too fine a point on it, but....
> -The football analogy was was intended only to illustrate how people have, in the past,  misconstrued "the rules" as preventing an action which was indeed allowable. For some time after that first pass there were those who still considered it to be outside the spirit of the competition, and far removed from the art, knowledge and science of a ground-game; any drudge could chunk a ball to a guy some yards distant.
> I, rashly, jumped to the conclusion that posters thought the use of pellet cookers to be cheating, as in an actual violation of the rules, when no one actually used that term. But in a broad sense that is still the impression I'm left with: that it is an unfair advantage in the otherwise time-honored art of cookin' BBQ, and something akin to cheating, in spirit at least.
> 
> As for "real BBQ".....
> My statement concerning trenches was intended merely as tongue-in-cheek, hoping to convey that one can always reduce a thing to what can be considered a more "pure" environment. However, stink-pot iron contraptions, regardless of how timeless their use might seem to many, can only go back as far as the Iron Age. Man's widespread control of fire (and cookin" BBQ couldn't be too far behind that) goes back to at least the Middle Paleolithic period.
> 
> I hear 'ya concerning pellet cookers in backyards. This is where mine is located. It produces very good food and in a completely boring manner: connect a power cord,fill a hopper, flip a switch, adjust a digital readout and watch the wisps of smoke rise. My wife loves it. I still prefer my horizontal iron contraption because it gives me a sense of connection with all those who have gone before, in maintaining a tradition of the pit master's art. The food tastes pretty darned good, too!
> 
> I personally feel that competitions would benefit from a separation of technologies which can be used in various "classes," just as black powder shooters compete in different classes, or even whole competitions, than those shooters using modern smokeless arms.
> I think most of us would much rather contest a game of chess against another person, than against a computer.
> 
> And lastly, I feel the biggest problem with BBQing is them sumbitches what uses molded charcoal briquettes: that just ain't right.......:)



You're Not putting too fine of a point! Very well said. My wife likes the low maintenance approach as well, I don't get to play with my Bar-B Chef horizontal offset as much since kids started dominating life.

I won't bite on molded charcoal briquettes!!!


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## worktogthr

Hahah maybe a bit random but this reminds me of the anchored putter controversy in golf.  Many believed it's not in the spirit of the game because it took away the need for a good, consistent putting stroke.  However when it was allowed within the rules there were some playerswho  won a lot of money with it.  Anchoring your putter is no longer allowed in professional golf because the ruling body made it part of the rule book.  Until pellet smokers are banned from competitions, you can't blame those who use them and have had success to keep on using them.

I am a purist, and in BBQ and golf there is already enough technology that makes things easier, a plug in set and forget smoker in my opinion takes the challenge out of it.  Back to the golf analogy, that would be like a putter that swing itself with the same reliable stroke each time.  It puts all the technique in the equipments hands rather than the competitor.

When you are at home or own a restaurant, you cook whatever makes your family/friends/customers happy because good food is good food, but at a comp it's about smoking, not cooking so I think some kind of live fire should be involved.


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## medic92

RogerWilco said:


> Guys, the rules clearly allow one to use a pellet grill....no one is cheating in these competitions. So sayeth the judges. This kind of reminds me of the first time a forward pass was thrown during a football game. It stopped the play for some time, as the other team yelled "foul," right up till the officials stated there was nothing in the official rules debarring the use of a pass. The rest is history, even though many felt at the time that it was cheating or somehow unfair.
> 
> Perhaps a new organization should be started, one that doesn't allow all the cheating......like metal cookers. Real barbecue is cooked over an open trench: none of that sissy pull-behind-an-RV stink-pot iron contraptions. And, great-granddaddy didn't have no thermometer, hell no,let alone some fancy digital number, so these should possibly be banned from competition as well. Propane torches for starting a fire? Aluminum foil? Power injectors?


So what kind of pellet smoker do you have?


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## sfprankster

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## rogerwilco

Medic92 said:


> So what kind of pellet smoker do you have?


 Yoder YS640. It works very, very well if the only object of the enterprise is to produce delicious foods.


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## medic92

RogerWilco said:


> Yoder YS640. It works very, very well if the only object of the enterprise is to produce delicious foods.


I was just having fun.  Your impassioned response made it clear you were a pellet fan with strong feelings on the subject.  :)


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## rogerwilco

Medic92 said:


> I was just having fun.  Your impassioned response made it clear you were a pellet fan with strong feelings on the subject.  :)


Actually, I prefer using my ceramic cookers and the horizontal off-set. They just seem to be a more grassroots method of cooking, which I enjoy when afforded the time required to play with them. And the only thing requiring an electric cord during their use is the LooftLighter, which is just plain ol' fun. There is no denying, though, that the pellet cookers work well and allow one to cook with ease, which  is why I purchased one.   :)


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## gearjammer

I guess a wattburner should be real quiet in here.

good discussion.

But da rules is the rules, does make you wonder why not different classes?

           Ed


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## jlcnuke

I'm of the opinion that the thing being judged (the food) should be the only thing that matters. If that guy over there is making the best BBQ with his pellet smoker, or an electric smoker, or a weber kettle, or an offset smoker, or a UDS, etc, then they should be the one winning BBQ competitions. I have no desire to do competitions, but a common sense approach would be that a BBQ competition would be about the best BBQ, not about the best BBQ with only a couple methods allowed so the best may be elsewhere.


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## rogerwilco

^^^^^^^^^^ Who let him in here.................


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## McLoven1t562

I don't compete, but I am a huge PitMasters and PitWars Fan, one of the popular guys who has won A LOT of grand champions and reserve grand champions is the owner of PELLET ENVY.

and what do you think he cooks on???? Yup! only pellets!! He got into the finals and they had to cook a whole hog, n provided to them was a LANG Offset Stick Burner, n he had to ask Mr Lang himself like 100 questions to get a handle on how to use the pit. lol

He didn't win, but the hog did come out pretty damn nicely.

Not sure where I was going with this, but I guess you could definitely say cooks who have only ever used Pellet Smokers can definitely get rattled/confused if they're ever put in that situation where you now need to use a stick burner and actually do all the tinkering/monitoring to keep your box full & hott, or how to lower the temp if it's spiking on you.

I also hear a lot of others out in the world who claim that pellets just don't create the same kind of smoke as wood does, which I can definitely believe when you look at the two.  We all know what smoke looks like when you set fire to dry wood, but I've seen pellet smokers and it's just such a thin layer of smoke coming out. I don't understand how much flavor can really penetrate the meat.


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## lcgc

jlcnuke said:


> I'm of the opinion that the thing being judged (the food) should be the only thing that matters. If that guy over there is making the best BBQ with his pellet smoker, or an electric smoker, or a weber kettle, or an offset smoker, or a UDS, etc, then they should be the one winning BBQ competitions. I have no desire to do competitions, but a common sense approach would be that a BBQ competition would be about the best BBQ, not about the best BBQ with only a couple methods allowed so the best may be elsewhere.



Since you said you haven't competed, you have no idea the work it takes to at these competitions.  We don't have a team of four people.  It's normally my wife and I. My oldest son is there about half the time when he doesn't have things to do with his kids so that helps.  I got an hour and forty five minutes sleep in 36 hours at my last competition. If that tells you anything.


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## garvinque

I agree just because it uses electricity to fed the pellets, it is still wood being burn.


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## garvinque

Then how about a WSM, you still have to tend to it but once its locked in your good!  Do you have a problem with people using them at comps?


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## McLoven1t562

There are plenty of highly successful "professional" competitors who have always had a team of anywhere from 1 - 3 people and majority of them don't use pellet cookers. 

But let's say you have a team of 6 guys using a stick burner, vs 1 guy using a pellet cooker.........is that really any different since you're helper is basically the pellet cooker and it's technology?

They have the manpower to allow eachother resting periods, while others tend to their more old school smoker, and you're able to focus on other things and/or sleep while the pellets feed themselve.

I can understand the frustration of small teams and not being able to kick back like others, but you're the one who signs up for these competitions and know exactly what kind of dedication and hard work it requires. So I don't really understand why people would be getting so upset that you couldn't sleep during cooks. 

Maybe some folks should just consider a pellet cooker...........if you can't beat em, you could always join em lol


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## rferguson

Coming to a gun fight with a knife.


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## McLoven1t562

rferguson said:


> Coming to a gun fight with a knife.


Hey man, a knife never jams up though ;)  ha ha


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## rferguson

True. Haha


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## lcgc

Garvinque said:


> Then how about a WSM, you still have to tend to it but once its locked in your good!  Do you have a problem with people using them at comps?


I have been using my WSM to smoke my chicken and the offset on my trailer for my larger meats.  I smoked a brisket last Sunday on my WSM and hardly had to touch it.  So guess what I will be using to smoke my brisket in a couple of weeks. :)


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## donarkie

personally I am not fond of pellet cookers (I call them set it & for get it). I own traditional stick burners, that's what "I" prefer & I was taught on & use here at my home & take to my church functions. I feel you can not learn good BBQ skills from a pellet cooker, that just my feeling on it. IMO they should have 2 types of classes traditional & pellet cookers. I am NOT a competitive cooker, just a old timer enjoy cooking good BBQ and playing with smoke & fire.


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