# Bacon Questions/concerns



## jc03 (Aug 18, 2014)

Hello, I apologize in advance for the scattered thoughts here. I've made bacon a couple time using Pops brine and the fast is great I've just been unable to get that "dark smoked" look I see here on the forum or at my local butcher shop. 

I've tried cold smoking in my 40" gas grill with nothing but the AMZN smoker going from both ends. I did this for 10 hours yesterday. I also tried one slab in my Cookshack Smokette but had trouble producing smoke at its lowest setting of 140*. I bumped up the heat to around 175 but worried I would render the fat so I stopped after 15 minutes. 

I was tempted to light one end of the AMZN dust in the regular grill and just let it go overnight but was worried about the food safety of leaving the bacon at outdoor temperature for 24 hours. Although it tastes great it looks pretty much the same way as when I started a day ago. I appreciate any thoughts you may have.


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## mneeley490 (Aug 18, 2014)

I use Pop's brine and warm smoke following Bearcarver's smoking instructions. My bacon takes a great mahogany color and tastes great!

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/108099/bacon-extra-smoky


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## daveomak (Aug 18, 2014)

Are you drying the slab and forming a pellicle ????   Are you smoking at less than 80 degrees F...  When the fat melts, it interferes with smoke penetration........  are the vents open for good air flow....

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/meat-smoking/cold-smoking


Pork fat melts at.......

backfat: 30–40 °C (86–104 °F)
 leaf fat: 43–48 °C (109–118 °F)
 mixed fat: 36–45 °C (97–113 °F)


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## jc03 (Aug 18, 2014)

Yes. I've dried the slab. The only heat was from the AMZN and the outside temperature was in the mid 70s. I didn't use a thermometer but can't imagine it was more than a 10• increase. The grill has a ton of venting. I blocked some of it because it seems like there wasn't a ton of smoke in the chamber. My big question is how I've smoked the bacon for so long and it doesn't look smoked like many of the photos folks post on the site.


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## daveomak (Aug 18, 2014)

Sounds like you smoked it perfect......

Probably the smoke penetrated the meat, and didn't sit on the surface to make that mahogany color....  Probably tastes great....   Who cares what the color is....  you won't notice it when it is sliced anyway.....

Did you notice in the link how cold smoked meats absorb the smoke better than warm smoked meats.....


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## themule69 (Aug 18, 2014)

I cold smoke at night when it is cooler then back in the fridge during the day. I go somewhere around 40 hours or 4 nights with a AMNPS each night. I am looking for the color. So when you get the right color you will have the right flavor. Here is a link http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...bacon-in-my-deluxe-uds-with-amnps-with-q-veiw

Happy smoken.

David


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## Bearcarver (Aug 18, 2014)

IMHO-----You can get good color and flavor two ways:

#1   By Warm smoking (120* to 140* Smoker temp) for about 8 to 12 or more hours. (My Way---Like "mneeley490" mentioned)

#2   Or by Cold smoking 24, to 48 hours (Mule has a Great method).

BTW: The one in my Step by Step was smoked between 120* and 130*, with spikes of 140*, and no fat was rendered.

Bear


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 18, 2014)

I follow the same method as David. 6-10 of smoke then rest in the fridge repeat. Until I get the color I'm looking for.


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 19, 2014)

You will find using Cherry wood or the Pitmasters Choice, Hickory, Maple, Cherry, blend will give the darkest mahogany color. Cherry Pellets used in the AMNPS needs to be blended with something else for a consistent burn. I don't know if Cherry Dust needs additional wood or not...JJ


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## pc farmer (Aug 19, 2014)

Yup. Who cares what it looks like as long as its good.   Here is mine.

Warm smoked like Bearcarver using pitmasters blend.


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## venture (Aug 19, 2014)

Going way back?

Lots of bacon had a gray or dull type color.

Not the "pretty" mass produced stuff we buy today.

It tasted great.  It cooked great.

Often it reddened up with cooking.

Having said that, I understand wanting an attractive presentation.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## mneeley490 (Aug 19, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> You will find using Cherry wood or the Pitmasters Choice, Hickory, Maple, Cherry, blend will give the darkest mahogany color. Cherry Pellets used in the AMNPS needs to be blended with something else for a consistent burn. I don't know if Cherry Dust needs additional wood or not...JJ


Chef's right. I use a 40/60 combination of cherry and corn cob. Cherry seems to make a nice red color no matter the meat.


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## foamheart (Aug 20, 2014)

I find that the wood makes all the difference in color, like chef Jimmy said. I use Bear's 10 degree increments, 100, 110, 120, 130, after a 1 hour dry cycle with door cracked and vents all wide open to de-water. I always allow the cured meat to rest a min. of a full day, two is even better, in the reefer to start the drying cycle (forming the pellicle). Woodcutter makes bueatiful colored bacon using a fan to form his pellicle.

130 is now my cut off temp. I did one last year to 137 and the meat texture changed a little.

The prettiest color I ever achieved was using Corn Cob, and I had never even heard of it before, and my Pop said thats how his Dad smoked their bacon. But I really over did it with a warm smoke, I finally decided a 4 hour warm some was more than suffient because you are going to let the cured smoked slabs rest for a few days to mellow before slicing.

Let see........ Corn cob.... Hmmmmmm........ Oh yeah it got to 137, I remember now I think. I think it was a 6 hour smoke.













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I would like to suggest that you forget the color totally, no one says "boy that bacon sure was good it must have had pretty color"

Get your smoke right, don't over smoke because it will mellow in the reefer before slicing. Pretty color will make you mad when you pre-cook your bacon.

Sure is pretty though. LOL


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## foamheart (Aug 20, 2014)

I had to go and look it up, that is a 12 hour smoke with apple AND corn cob, but still reaching only that 137 IT. Bear said I could quit smoking it then.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/143966/foams-first-attempt-at-bacon/20


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## Bearcarver (Aug 20, 2014)

In case I wasn't clear:

No way would I ignore the color----color is important.

In my opinion, good color and good flavor go hand in hand.

That's what I look for as to when I quit smoking.

I don't want to eat it to taste it, because it's not ready to taste, so I go by the color.

If I got good color, I will have good flavor----Time to remove from Smoker.

Bear


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## roller (Aug 20, 2014)

I find that if you want that beautiful smoke color on your bacon you are going to have to use real pieces of wood in a long cold smoke and you do not want your bacon sitting right down on top to the smoke..a smoke house is best..


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## jc03 (Aug 20, 2014)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to do some slicing tomorrow and I'll let you know!


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## jc03 (Aug 21, 2014)

Well, I gave the bacon a try and it was "just fine". It didn't cook up real red and didn't have a ton of taste. The smoke definitely didn't jump out at me. What would you do? I only sliced one piece. Would you smoke more? It's been in the fridge since Monday. Thanks.


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## themule69 (Aug 21, 2014)

Jc03 said:


> Well, I gave the bacon a try and it was "just fine". It didn't cook up real red and didn't have a ton of taste. The smoke definitely didn't jump out at me. What would you do? I only sliced one piece. Would you smoke more? It's been in the fridge since Monday. Thanks.


Yes give it more smoke.

Happy smoken.

David


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## themule69 (Aug 21, 2014)

David


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## Bearcarver (Aug 21, 2014)

Jc03 said:


> Well, I gave the bacon a try and it was "just fine". It didn't cook up real red and didn't have a ton of taste. The smoke definitely didn't jump out at me. What would you do? I only sliced one piece. Would you smoke more? It's been in the fridge since Monday. Thanks.


If I'm reading what you're saying right, you cold smoked for 10 hours, and you got very little color & not much flavor.

I agree with David about giving it more smoke, and if you look what I said in my post #7, I gave you two methods to get good color & good flavor. You chose to cold smoke, so you should have given it at least 24 hours of cold smoke. The only way you can get great flavor & color in 10 hours would be with a little heat. IMHO

Bear


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## jc03 (Aug 21, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I'll throw it back on tonight and try and get some pics. I had 2 full bellies so I may try both hot and cold.


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## jc03 (Aug 21, 2014)

Do you think it would be safe if I cold smoke from 6-10 pm tonight by lighting both ends of the AMZN then refill and light just one end when I go to bed to hope it makes it most of the night?


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## Bearcarver (Aug 21, 2014)

Jc03 said:


> Thanks everyone. I'll throw it back on tonight and try and get some pics. I had 2 full bellies so I may try both hot and cold.


Not Hot !!!-----Warm!!

If you can't stay below 140* smoker temp, don't use any heat. Above 140* will render fat for sure!!

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Aug 21, 2014)

Jc03 said:


> Do you think it would be safe if I cold smoke from 6-10 pm tonight by lighting both ends of the AMZN then refill and light just one end when I go to bed to hope it makes it most of the night?


You don't need to light both ends. It's not the heavy smoke you want, it's the length of time you want if you're cold smoking.

Bear


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## jc03 (Aug 21, 2014)

Ok warm. I'm between a bit of a rock and hardplace on warm smoking. My Cookshack Smokette only goes down to 140* but doesn't really produce smoke until you hit around 170*. How do you feel about setting the temperature higher and leaving the door cracked?


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## daveomak (Aug 21, 2014)

Jc03 said:


> Ok warm. I'm between a bit of a rock and hardplace on warm smoking. My Cookshack Smokette only goes down to 140* but doesn't really produce smoke until you hit around 170*. How do you feel about setting the temperature higher and leaving the door cracked?




Light the AMNPS and DO NOT turn on the smoker....


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## Bearcarver (Aug 21, 2014)

Jc03 said:


> Ok warm. I'm between a bit of a rock and hardplace on warm smoking. My Cookshack Smokette only goes down to 140* but doesn't really produce smoke until you hit around 170*. *How do you feel about setting the temperature higher and leaving the door cracked?*


I don't like that.

If you can't get between 100* and 140*, you're stuck with cold smoking.

Then your best way to get good color & flavor with cold smoking, would be like Dave said above, however you should do that for at least 24 hours, like I said before. You could do that all at once, or like was mentioned earlier, I think by Case (DirtSailor)-----Smoke it for 8 or 10 hours---Put it in the fridge----Smoke it the next day again----Put it in fridge, etc, etc, until you have the color you want. Should be at least 24 hrs, but no more than 60 hrs. Somewhere in between.

Bear


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## rgautheir20420 (Aug 21, 2014)

I'm watching this thread to see your results. I've got an MES30 G1 sitting at home waiting for me to put it together and an AMNPS (5x8). A friend and I are planning to give bacon a shot. Good luck to you and keep us posted!


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## Bearcarver (Aug 21, 2014)

rgautheir20420 said:


> I'm watching this thread to see your results. I've got an MES30 G1 sitting at home waiting for me to put it together and an AMNPS (5x8). A friend and I are planning to give bacon a shot. Good luck to you and keep us posted!


With your MES 30 G#1, you don't have trouble getting temps between 100* and 130*, so a lot of the problems above don't pertain to you.

All you need is to follow something like this:

*Bacon (Extra Smoky)*

Bear


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## daveomak (Aug 21, 2014)

rgautheir20420 said:


> I'm watching this thread to see your results. I've got an MES30 G1 sitting at home waiting for me to put it together and an AMNPS (5x8). A friend and I are planning to give bacon a shot. Good luck to you and keep us posted!



RG....  If you are ambitious, you could do a mod similar to this......













AMNPS and Mailbox mod.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Aug 21, 2014



















burning pellets.jpg



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inside mailbox.jpg



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outside mailbox.jpg



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I place an extension on the pipe to move the smoke to the center of the smoker....













Inside MES wchip tray.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Aug 21, 2014


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## themule69 (Aug 21, 2014)

As said above. Don't turn the smoker on. Turning it on and leaving the door open won't work. It is going to keep the heating element on all the time. Just use your AMNPS and be patient. If it takes a couple of nigths no big deal.

Happy smoken.

David


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## jc03 (Aug 21, 2014)

Worst case scenario here. I got home from work and took the bacon out of the fridge to throw it on the smoker. I noticed some maggots on one piece. What can I do? It was never left out when it wasn't smoking. I have 20#! I feel terrible!


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## Bearcarver (Aug 21, 2014)

Jc03 said:


> Worst case scenario here. I got home from work and took the bacon out of the fridge to throw it on the smoker. I noticed some maggots on one piece. What can I do? It was never left out when it wasn't smoking. I have 20#! I feel terrible!


Holy @#$% !!!

What temp is it inside your fridge???

Maggots???  Never heard anything like that.

Bear


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## jc03 (Aug 21, 2014)

It's about 36













image.jpg



__ jc03
__ Aug 21, 2014


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## jc03 (Aug 21, 2014)

Didn't mean to advertise the naturals thwre


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## Bearcarver (Aug 21, 2014)

Wow!!!

I've never seen a Maggot in the Winter or in a working Fridge.

If you really have maggots on your Bacon, that would scare me away from it, but it might be that I have a weak stomach when it comes to those disgusting critters.

Bear


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## foamheart (Aug 21, 2014)

Roller said:


> I find that if you want that beautiful smoke color on your bacon you are going to have to use real pieces of wood in a long cold smoke and you do not want your bacon sitting right down on top to the smoke..a smoke house is best..


I totally agree. I did some experimenting with pecan shells verses pecan pellets The pellets and the shells were both the same type meat, the same cooking conditions, the same smoker. The pellets smoked very slowly, TBS. The shells were a heartier smoke, not white but not as clear as the pellets.

I think the pellets, although a great smoke, are much the same as the electrics smokers are to a real fire breather. They are a way we have to be able to enjoy smoke more often. We give up a little quality for convience. Its OK, I get to smoke more often and that is a good thing.


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 21, 2014)

:icon_eek:




~Martin


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## daveomak (Aug 22, 2014)

Maggots....  they are pure protein....  won't hurt you....    But......    I wouldn't eat it...   

Are you sure they are maggots.....   I'm confused about what's going on....


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## themule69 (Aug 22, 2014)

I don't do Maggots. It might not hurt you. I am concerned about what went wrong with your cure. When in dought throw it out.

I'm going to PM JJ and get his input on this.

Happy smoken.

David


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## jc03 (Aug 22, 2014)

I'm confused too. I'm pretty sure. The temp in the fridge was in the mid 30s and the only exposure off the grill was handling and packaging to put in the fridge. It's crazy.


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## mneeley490 (Aug 22, 2014)

Wow, if maggots are in one, they may be inside the other. I'd toss both and start over.


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## jc03 (Aug 22, 2014)

Thanks David. Let me know.


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## jc03 (Aug 22, 2014)

I guess I should add one other detail. When I noticed the issue. I warm smoked the bacon at 170 for 2 hours after rinsing and patting dry.


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## daveomak (Aug 22, 2014)

Maybe flies laid eggs during slaughter....  That is a problem....  improper handling of the meat...     Was the meat frozen at any time... 

I'd change butchers....


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## rgautheir20420 (Aug 22, 2014)

I have to agree here with Dave. From the process, I don't see how the slabs could have become infested while curing, smoking, or sitting in the fridge. I'd have to chalk this one up to bad meat to begin with. It's likely that the eggs were there to start and "sleeping" while curing. Then when you smoked them they warmed up and began hatching. That's how they were still there when you pulled them from the fridge after the initial smoke.

Just my thoughts at least...


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## foamheart (Aug 22, 2014)

rgautheir20420 said:


> I have to agree here with Dave. From the process, I don't see how the slabs could have become infested while curing, smoking, or sitting in the fridge. I'd have to chalk this one up to bad meat to begin with. It's likely that the eggs were there to start and "sleeping" while curing. Then when you smoked them they warmed up and began hatching. That's how they were still there when you pulled them from the fridge after the initial smoke.
> 
> Just my thoughts at least...


Pop always said, "The one that eats the most, gets the most maggots! Everyone be wanting extries!"


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 22, 2014)

Maggots need Oxygen and are not " in " the meat so what you see is what you got. This is unusual because it is unlikely the eggs would have survived the curing process. The maggots got there during your smoke processing.

A Fly ready to lay eggs does not need more than a few seconds to deposit them, and this time of year there are plenty around. So it could have been outside or even sitting on the counter waiting to be wrapped that this happened. Even though the meat is perfectly fine, Flys just do land on rotten meat, a Fly has landed on the meat, deposited the Eggs and flew away. The warm conditions in the smoker allowed them to hatch. Barring the YUK factor, I would just cut that part away , slice and freeze the Bacon as is. It is unlikely there are any new bacterial issues since maggots have been used to clean wounds for hundreds of years and don't contribute bacteria as they feed, and you will be cooking the Bacon anyway. As far as a possible issue prior to seeing the Maggots, do a Smell and if no nasty smell, a Taste test, after cooking a sample. If it smells and tastes ok, it is fine. I don't see that there are any safety issues here...JJ


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 22, 2014)

If maggots are indeed present you need to take a serious look at your technique because it definitely should not be happening.
If the meat has been exposed to conditions that led to the hosting of maggots it may very well be contaminated in other ways.




~Martin


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## themule69 (Aug 23, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Maggots need Oxygen and are not " in " the meat so what you see is what you got. This is unusual because it is unlikely the eggs would have survived the curing process. The maggots got there during your smoke processing.
> 
> A Fly ready to lay eggs does not need more than a few seconds to deposit them, and this time of year there are plenty around. So it could have been outside or even sitting on the counter waiting to be wrapped that this happened. Even though the meat is perfectly fine, Flys just do land on rotten meat, a Fly has landed on the meat, deposited the Eggs and flew away. The warm conditions in the smoker allowed them to hatch. Barring the YUK factor, I would just cut that part away , slice and freeze the Bacon as is. It is unlikely there are any new bacterial issues since maggots have been used to clean wounds for hundreds of years and don't contribute bacteria as they feed, and you will be cooking the Bacon anyway. As far as a possible issue prior to seeing the Maggots, do a Smell and if no nasty smell, a Taste test, after cooking a sample. If it smells and tastes ok, it is fine. I don't see that there are any safety issues here...JJ


JJ

Thanks for jumping in here.

Happy smoken.

David


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## jc03 (Aug 23, 2014)

Thanks JJ


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## wes w (Aug 24, 2014)

Y'all are killin me here with the Maggot talk....

Back to bacon.

I cold smoke (under 80F).  I use hickory.  My setup is kinda rough, but it works to perfection.  After 12hrs. of pure hickory smoke it has awesome color.  I have let it rest in the frig for as long as a week before slicing.   I have people begging for it, but they bitch about the cost......













My Photos 1162.jpg



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My Photos 1166.jpg



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12hrs later.

I brine with Pops method and its perfect every time.


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## foamheart (Aug 24, 2014)

Wes W said:


> I have people begging for it, but they bitch about the cost......


The trials and tribulations of being good! They bitch while asking for more, right?

<Chuckles>


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## daveomak (Aug 24, 2014)

Wes, morning.....   Hey.....   Nice mod for the smoker....   First I've seen it, or my memory failed me again....   I really like the SFB attached to the firebox opening....  How ingenious....   How perfect.....   
About your bacon...  I just sliced up another 2# slab for bride....  It's really amazing ain't it....    It's gotta be worth $10/pound...   Every time we eat it, it amazes me how darn good it is....   I don't share mine....   Afraid to....  I think the rest period is very important for a uniform, silky flavor throughout the slab.....  




Wes W said:


> Y'all are killin me here with the Maggot talk....
> 
> Back to bacon.
> 
> ...


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## wes w (Aug 24, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> Wes W said:
> 
> 
> > I have people begging for it, but they bitch about the cost......
> ...


Your right FH.   I can't even replace it anymore.  I priced belly a couple weeks ago.  Its up to $3.00lb here now.   When my stock is gone it may be a while before I get anymore.  I do have a contact that is suppose to get me some bellies from a local farmer when they butcher in the fall.


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## wes w (Aug 24, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> Wes, morning..... Hey..... Nice mod for the smoker.... First I've seen it, or my memory failed me again.... I really like the SFB attached to the firebox opening.... How ingenious.... How perfect.....
> About your bacon... I just sliced up another 2# slab for bride.... It's really amazing ain't it.... It's gotta be worth $10/pound... Every time we eat it, it amazes me how darn good it is.... I don't share mine.... Afraid to.... I think the rest period is very important for a uniform, silky flavor throughout the slab.....
> 
> 
> ...


Morning Dave.

Thats the only way I could think of the get cool smoke into this thing.    Home cured bacon is nothing short of awesome!     I've gotten to where I like the pepper bacon too.   Not spicy but just good added flavor.

I'm not sure you can put a price on good bacon.   Hell, top brand store bought bacon is 8.00lb  now.    Same with good BBQ.   Jeffs rub and wood smoke makes my BBQ like none other in these parts.  

Theys some flatlanders that moved in local and opened a meatmarket.  They keep bitching about what I'm doing is not legal.  I keep waiting on them to report me to the health department.   I do sell bbq and bacon when I can.   I don't have any kind of store front.   I don't see my cooking and selling as any different then church and fire department fundraisers. 

Good to see you here again Dave.   Thought maybe you'd flown the coop  :-)   Hope you have a great day!


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## gibsorz (Aug 28, 2014)

Wow talking about bacon prices makes me jealous. In Vancouver, canada, our belly price was 5.99 when I went the other day. That is a pound, not kilo!!! Raw, uncured, belly. The cheapest, walmart brand flimsy slimy bacon is 5$ a pound.


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## wes w (Aug 28, 2014)

Oh wow!  I love home cured bacon, but your prices are even higher then ours.   We need to all go together and start a pig farm!  :-)   Our cheap store bacon is around 5.00 US.  The good stuff is around 8 now in our area.   I have a lot of friends in Canada.  Although it probably will never happen,  I'd love to visit someday.

Hope everyone has a great evening!


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