# aluminum foil health risk?



## smo-kingmamma (May 23, 2014)

Anyone out there have a replacement idea around aluminum foil?  I know that smoking meat has it's own health risks, but I am not going to wrap my meat in aluminum for any period of time.  There is a known dementia/alzheimers risk.  Maybe a Dutch oven if it is brought up to temp.?


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## pc farmer (May 23, 2014)

We all have to die of something.  LOL

I dont wrap anything while on the smoker.

After pullin off of smoker, maybe two hours.

Dont think its gonna hurt me.


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## daveomak (May 23, 2014)

In order for the aluminum to dissolve, it needs an alkaline medium to dissolve it or something like Aqua-Regia, a powerful acid... or hydrofluoric acid....   You can always use butcher paper....  The NON plasticized stuff.....   

Dave


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## forluvofsmoke (May 23, 2014)

I use foil-covered pans all the time...basically no contact with the food touching the foil. Ceramic coated roasting pans work well for this, and if you have a matching cover, such as with a turkey roaster, all the better. If this method is used for resting brisket or pork shoulder, for example, it will not hold at temp for as long as foil/towel wrap, but preheating the pan/cover does help.

I have used aluminum baking pans with a foil cover...would that be any different than foiling? Anyway, standard kitchen cookware can be quite useful for smoked meats needing to rest before serving...no real need for anything that's special-purpose...just has to be large enough to hold the meat.

Eric


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## ak1 (May 23, 2014)

Last I checked there was no corelation between aluminium & alzheimers that any quantifiable study could prove. 

I look at it this way; There is one thing that is given and undeniable, I am going to die.  Now, I can read stories that this or that is going to kill me. Maybe, maybe not.  I've got maybe 80 yrs on this planet. I'm going to enjoy my time here, not spend it worrying about this or that. I figure, I'll go when I go. I'll enjoy my journey.


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## aeroforce100 (May 24, 2014)

I thought the Aluminum foil and Alzheimer's died out a few years ago.  Guess it it true, once on the net, always on the net.


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## gary s (May 24, 2014)

Hello and welcome, Wasn't aware of that one. You can find anything on the net, just have to make sure it comes from a reliable source that have done studies and test. I have beenusing butcher paper on my briskets for several years, still foil ribs and pork butt though.

Gary s


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

*By Dr. Mercola*


> Aluminum has been long known to be neurotoxic, with mounting evidence that chronic exposure is a factor in many neurological diseases, including dementia, autism, and Parkinson's disease.
> 
> However, definitive scientific proof is difficult to establish due toth the lack of longitudinal studies, as well as pushback from industries that use aluminum in their products. Despite the shortage of conclusive studies, mounting scientific evidence really leaves little room for doubt.
> 
> ...


Thanks for everyone's opinion.  I am glad that some of you understand that there are ways to do things differently and that is what I was looking for, suggested ideas, not judgement or moral or educational slant.  Aluminum which is a soft metal, doesn't go near heat and my food.   I am new to smoking meats and loving the communities helpful suggestions and insight.


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

Hi Eric, thanks for the helpful hints.  Is holding to temp. for when you are serving meat a while after it rests or need to travel etc?  Is holding it up to temp a way for it to cool more slowly?  I am very new and keep seeing the aluminum and towel idea, but I apparently don't get it.

Thanks.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> *By Dr. Mercola*
> 
> 
> > Aluminum has been long known to be neurotoxic, with mounting evidence that chronic exposure is a factor in many neurological diseases, including dementia, autism, and Parkinson's disease.
> ...









  How can one have mounting scientific evidence with a shortage of conclusive studies?







These researchers are bad for my health, they're freaking killing me........ who the heck is one to believe???







  Drinking water could kill me..... probably not a good idea to stop no matter what the conclusive evidence is.


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## demosthenes9 (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> *By Dr. Mercola*
> 
> 
> > Aluminum has been long known to be neurotoxic, with mounting evidence that chronic exposure is a factor in many neurological diseases, including dementia, autism, and Parkinson's disease.
> ...


Wow, I guess the whole concept of "correlation != causation" is out the window.    I guess if the individual in question had died from being hit by a meteorite, then aluminum would be the cause of that as well ?


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

Is *this* the great Dr. Mercola you're referring to?


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## gary s (May 24, 2014)

How many times a week would you need to be using foil to have an effect?  I am thinking that most of us on here would be doing good if used once a week, I am sure they may be some who wraps more. I grill probably 5 days out of the week and smoke once or three times a month, A lot of what I wrap in foil is only in it for a short period of time. I don't think it effected my mind, I don't think it has effected my mind, I don't think it has effected my mind, What were we talking about.

Gary S


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## daveomak (May 24, 2014)

*FDA Orders Dr. Joseph Mercola to Stop Illegal Claims .....*

Many of Mercola's articles make unsubstantiated claims and clash with those of leading medical and public health organizations. For example, he opposes immunization [4] fluoridation [5], mammography [6], and the routine administration of vitamin K shots to the newborn [7]; claims that amalgam fillings are toxic [8]; and makes many unsubstantiated recommendations for dietary supplements. Mercola's reach has been greatly boosted by repeated promotion on the "Dr. Oz Show." 

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html


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## kc5tpy (May 24, 2014)

Hello.  Welcome to the forum.  I just have to offer my worthless 2 cents here.  If NOT using aluminium foil is a life style choice for you then that is your choice and I have no comment.  Most members, and many professional chefs recommend wrapping meat in foil to rest.  Please forgive me, I don't mean to be confrontational at all but IMHO we just can't let info like this be put on the site without all the info we can provide being included.  We can't allow new folks to be afraid to use a product based on partial information.  Just my opinion; could be wrong, have been in the past.  I have done a lot of reading about aluminium cookware as I had your same concerns.  Now if you read your last post you will see that the evidence you quoted was from a worker exposed to aluminium ( probably ) on a daily bases.  This was most probably aluminium dust which was probably inhaled; maybe not but as you didn't include further info we don't know.  From my research I agree with what DaveOmak posted above.  It takes a really strong acid to break down the aluminium.  Use the equipment properly.  Now, because of that info I don't use anything aluminium when I make tomato sauces and such BUT that is just my choice.  Tomatoes do not contain enough acid to start breaking down the aluminium from my research but I chose not to use it.  Asbestos is not dangerous if left undisturbed and the particles don't become airborne.  If aluminium foil was that big of a risk the USDA would pull it off the market.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## timberjet (May 24, 2014)

It seems to me that you would have to inhale powdered aluminum or ingest it somehow to have it affect you. I don't really think wrapping your meat with it will harm you. Just an opinion but makes sense to me.


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## atomicsmoke (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> *By Dr. Mercola*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's quite a study...
population... one.  

Wear your seatbelt, get a flu shot. Sugar in the BBQ sauce and rubs will kill us before the aluminum foil will.


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## timberjet (May 24, 2014)

I really do want one of those big stone casseroles rather than using disposable aluminum pans so much though. One with a well designed lid would be really cool. My mother has one from pampered chef but I think that thing was over a hundred bucks. Sure is nice though, and that would probably solve your problem, or paranoia or whatever.


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## damnthatsgood (May 24, 2014)

TL;DR - we've been studying this "correlation" for a long, long time with nothing that proves aluminum causes Alzheimer's.  And furthermore, you get sooooooooo much aluminum just from water and food, that not using foil or pans that contain aluminum isn't "I'm trying to limit it as much as possible".  Instead, it's "What you're doing is pointless, so take off the tinfoil hat and live your life before you're 80 years old and have a stack of regrets."
 

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=102

*Aluminium* – Very low levels of many metals are present in the brain. Aluminium is a toxic metal that is common in our everyday environment. Small amounts of it are found in water and food. Although initial studies linked aluminium toxicity with Alzheimer's disease, the link has not been proven despite continuing investigation. Importantly, there is no evidence to suggest that aluminium exposure increases your risk of dementia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...726998-ae75-11e2-98ef-d1072ed3cc27_story.html

Avoiding all aluminum isn’t possible, because the metal is so ubiquitous. If Alzheimer’s is your worry, you’re better off making sure to keep your mind active and your heart healthy, Borenstein says. In the long run, these steps will do far more to protect your brain.

http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2010/04/take_a_shine_to_aluminum_foil.html

*Q: Can using aluminum foil cause Alzheimer's or other neurological diseases? *

*A:* It depends on who you ask. Naturopathic types would argue yes, but the western medical establishment would say no. According to food scientist Robert Wolke, some people have suspected a link between aluminum and Alzheimer's, Lou Gehrig's and Parkinson's diseases for about two decades, but it has not been proved. Besides, most of our aluminum intake comes from our food and water, not the foil we use. Aluminum is the most abundant metal in the Earth's crust and is widely distributed in soil, plants and water. Our bodies absorb less than 1percent of what they take in.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

*BREAKING NEWS... ... ...*

*We have a live feed from planet earth with Sr. Galactic Correspondent jp61*

Hello folks, unfortunately I have bad news.

Scientist and Experts from Uranus for the first time, have conclusive evidence that breathing on planet earth is *DANGEROUS *to your health!!!

It turns out that fire ant flatulence is toxic. Authorities have all available resources dispatched to deal with the crisis. 

*Stay tuned, developing....*







..... sorry OP, sometimes I just can't stop myself. 

Do as you wish, it's your life and your choice.

I would like to suggest an equal concern for food safety.


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

Thanks Danny.  I am an alternative healthcare worker, I will keep health related comments to my self.  I kinda thought things might heat up.  I appreciate your looking at both sides of the coin.  Happy smokin'!!


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## daveomak (May 24, 2014)

This is getting ugly.......    Time to take a break....   maybe.....


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## kc5tpy (May 24, 2014)

Have to agree with Dave.  Please just chill a bit here.  She is new.  She deserves a break.  We don't want to lose a new member on the first day.  She may have many things to bring to the table.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## pineywoods (May 24, 2014)

We have no problem with debate but personal attacks will not be tolerated


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> Is your dementia kicking in?
> 
> J/K...great sense of humor.  Thanks for helping keep us free.


Maybe, maybe not..... will have to do a study 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






You're welcome, but the truth is, I didn't like school (edit: which was a mistake (not the Marines but school)).

You have every right to be concerned....... there are plenty of reasons for all of us.


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## damnthatsgood (May 24, 2014)

Hope I wasn't personally attacking anyone.  It just irritates me to no end when mountains and mountains of evidence won't change someone's mind.  I cannot wrap my brain around that way of thinking.


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## timberjet (May 24, 2014)

This is quite entertaining I must admit. But agree that we should play nice. You really should check out stoneware baking dishes online. They are pretty cool and might be the best soloution for you. Have a great day. timber


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)




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## kc5tpy (May 24, 2014)

Hello.  Folks; this isn't what we are about.  This is WRONG!  We are about trying to help folks and educate folks.  You don't HAMMER a new member like this.  I know this might upset many folks but how would you feel if this was your first post?  She may be right or wrong but you need to explain why you think she is right/wrong,  not just poke fun.  At this moment I am not proud to be a member here.

Danny


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## boykjo (May 24, 2014)

I think everyone should send me their foil........ Now if I can only remeber what my address is.........lol

Sorry just had too...lol


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

IMAG1237.jpg



__ smo-kingmamma
__ May 24, 2014






I am so past the aluminum question I posed.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  Folks; this isn't what we are about.  This is WRONG!  We are about trying to help folks and educate folks.  You don't HAMMER a new member like this.  I know this might upset many folks but how would you feel if this was your first post?  She may be right or wrong but you need to explain why you think she is right/wrong,  not just poke fun.  At this moment I am not proud to be a member here.
> 
> Danny









  Relax..... everything is fine!


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

boykjo said:


> I think everyone should send me their foil........ Now if I can only remeber what my address is.........lol
> 
> Sorry just had too...lol


Now that there is funny!


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## damnthatsgood (May 24, 2014)

KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  Folks; this isn't what we are about.
> 
> Educating people about food is EXACTLY what this forum is about.
> 
> ...


Inb4 "mods please lock this thread"

OP, you alright?  Stick around.  This place really isn't like this at all.  People here are very laid back and super nice.  They're just a bit too hung up on "to each his own".  And would rather keep the peace, then keep it real.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

BRB.... time to go by some more cigarettes, I'm out! First thing I'm gonna do when I open my pack, is rip out that nasty foil.


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

OP is just fine.  I kinda thought that my question was a bit too much to start with.  I am so busy smoking meat that I have moved on.  I will continue to ask question tho.  Thank you for the concern.  I work with the public as a service worker and meet these confrontations continually.  Happy Memorial Day!


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## kc5tpy (May 24, 2014)

All is NOT fine,  I will leave it there.

Danny


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## ak1 (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> Thanks Danny.  I am an alternative healthcare worker, I will keep health related comments to my self.  I kinda thought things might heat up.  I appreciate your looking at both sides of the coin.  Happy smokin'!!





KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  Folks; this isn't what we are about.  This is WRONG!  We are about trying to help folks and educate folks.  You don't HAMMER a new member like this.  I know this might upset many folks but how would you feel if this was your first post?  She may be right or wrong but you need to explain why you think she is right/wrong,  not just poke fun.  At this moment I am not proud to be a member here.
> 
> Danny


That's exactly what I did. Now, facts & beliefs are two different things. You or any one else can believe what ever you like. That doesn't necessarily line up with what the facts are.

As it stands, there is no conclusive evidence that normal exposure to aluminium, whether through cookware or foil causes or contributes to any sort of human malady. 

Look at the facts. Aluminium melts at 660.4 degrees celcius and gases at 2467 degrees celcius.  When exactly does your food get to those temps?.


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## timberjet (May 24, 2014)

KC5TPY said:


> All is NOT fine,  I will leave it there.
> 
> Danny


come on man. lighten up. I don't think she is nearly as offended as you are. A sense of humor is a good thing.


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## timberjet (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> IMAG1237.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OOh I see you have one of those stoneware pans. How do you like it? Did it have a lid? Also what are you smoking there? Is that potroast?


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## tonyabeachlover (May 24, 2014)

My bf is a chemist at Eastman & both his parents are doctors. His father a neurologist his mother an internest (doctor of internal medicine). I asked all three of them about foil & they laughed & assured me that if there was risk none of them would use it for food. His parents said your aluminum intake just from the food & water you ingest is far greater than would ever get IF the foil leached aluminum which it DOES NOT. This is just a quick summary of what they said but they have years of training & experience so I will trust them & continue using foil personally. If anyone is scared of foil for some reason I will not hold it against them tho :)


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

IMAG1237.jpg



__ smo-kingmamma
__ May 24, 2014













  What are those two cylindrical objects in the background made of?


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## forluvofsmoke (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> Hi Eric, thanks for the helpful hints.  Is holding to temp. for when you are serving meat a while after it rests or need to travel etc?  Is holding it up to temp a way for it to cool more slowly?  I am very new and keep seeing the aluminum and towel idea, but I apparently don't get it.
> 
> Thanks.


You're welcome. I do occasionally hold food at temp, around 140-150* in a cooker or oven, if it came out too early for the meal. I have even used a slow cooker to hold food in after getting it warmed-up, then wrap the cooker with towels and put in a vehicle to transport for an hour or so. The main reason most of us will place larger cuts into some sort of container, and then insulate, is to allow the internal temperature to drop more slowly during resting. This allows for the meat fibers to relax and let the natural juices redistribute throughout the meat. It also allows more time for lesser/tougher cuts of meat to become more tender.

Resting while in a covered container, or foil, can be substituted by simply leaving the meat on a grate (either removable smoker cooking grate, or accessory grate such as a bakers rack), placing this onto (or in) a baking pan/sheet (for a drip-catch), then covering with a clean towel. This is a method I use to preserve the bark on smoked meats, as it allows the meat to breath and not saturate the bark with steam while it rests. While it does work very well in preserving a hard/crisp bark, one down-side is that the meat will cool a bit faster than if tightly covered and insulated, but with larger cuts of meat such as pork shoulder, it still allows the mass of the meat to hold it's heat for a few hours.

In most cases, foiling of meats can be substituted with some sort of covered pan. I rarely ever use just foil to wrap ribs in, for example. With a little imagination, there are lots of other ways to achieve the same result. You may read of foiling ribs to use a 3-2-1 or 2-2-1 method for ribs, or, foiling pork shoulders for pulled pork before it finishes cooking...same for brisket. It's a personal choice whether you "foil" or not, and each of us have our reasons for doing it, or not. If you don't want a hard bark on the meat probably being the number one reason to foil meats...OK, wait, foiling to speed up cooking and push through the plateau/stall would be the biggest reason...although I don't anymore.

There are lots of methods that everyone uses at some point or another. Sometimes just to experiment and see if we like the outcome. Sometimes to explore the possibilities and achieve a better, more palatable finished product. Foiling is one of those methods. I've foiled or panned & tented/covered meats to finish cooking, and, I've left it on open grates until it reaches my desired texture or internal temperature. I've covered rightly to rest, and, I've used the grate and towel to allow it to breathe. Each method has it's own merits, as well as it's own set of negative impacts. Sometimes we look for a balance of the two that is a compromise of sorts, to achieve our goal with the best possible finished product.

I digressed...since you're new to smoking and looking for answers, I'm guessing this won't be a bad thing...LOL!!!

Glad to help, any time. Anything else comes up, just shout.

Eric


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## tonyabeachlover (May 24, 2014)

JP61 said:


> IMAG1237.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mr. JP61 that is funny! :)


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

In today's world, if I were to take every scientific and/or expert advice/warning to heart, I'd be living in a bubble, sipping carrot-juice through a food-grade stainless-steel straw with one eye fixed to the sky


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## talan64 (May 24, 2014)

As an alternative, to wrapping in foil or using a foil pan, how about using a 15x10 enamel coated roasting pan?  If it fits in your smoker.  The lid should sit on it tight enough to hold the moisture in, then it's easy enough to wrap towels around it when the meat is done to allow for  slower cooling and good rest time?

Personally I use the disposable aluminum pans covered with foil, then for resting, set it in the oven wrapped in towels. I think ease of cleanup.  But if you have concerns (no matter who agrees or disagrees) there are plenty of creative alternatives.

If enough people inquire with Lodge about a 20-ish qt (about 12x16x9) oval or rectangle dutch oven, maybe they could add it to there lineup of products.  I know I would buy one if they made one that big.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

Talan64 said:


> As an alternative, to wrapping in foil or using a foil pan, how about using a 15x10 enamel coated roasting pan?  If it fits in your smoker.  The lid should sit on it tight enough to hold the moisture in, then it's easy enough to wrap towels around it when the meat is done to allow for  slower cooling and good rest time?
> 
> Personally I use the disposable aluminum pans covered with foil, then for resting, set it in the oven wrapped in towels. I think ease of cleanup.  But if you have concerns (no matter who agrees or disagrees) there are plenty of creative alternatives.
> 
> If enough people inquire with Lodge about a 20-ish qt (about 12x16x9) oval or rectangle dutch oven, maybe they could add it to there lineup of products.  I know I would buy one if they made one that big.









  You haven't heard about enamel?

OK.... I'm gonna go wash dishes now


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## talan64 (May 24, 2014)

on a side note, cooking.com has a 14x21 covered enamel roasting pan


JP61 said:


> You haven't heard about enamel?
> 
> *I thought enamel was only an issue at extremely high temperatures?


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

I have no idea, sir....was just joking.

Never even heard of an issue with aluminum foil before today. 







  Now I'm totally freaked out!


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## paulyetter (May 24, 2014)

This thread was a funny read but I have no fear of the foil.


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

Smith Forge Hard Cidar for the pans.


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## ak1 (May 24, 2014)

JP61 said:


> In today's world, if I were to take every scientific and/or expert advice/warning to heart, I'd be living in a bubble, sipping carrot-juice through a food-grade stainless-steel straw with one eye fixed to the sky.


Well, no you can't do that. There is a possibility that the carrot could have absorbed something that may not be good for you. Then that stainless steel straw contains chromium, which definitely is not good for you. There's also copper, manganese, carbon, nickel, molybdenum...


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

Thanks Eric,

 I am beginning to understand that there are many complexities when grilling/smoking meat.  Your ability to get out information to the point is well done.  I have a lot to learn...

Appreciating the information that you have to share.  Now, I will let the experience of trial and error to find its way.  Lesson #1, let sleeping dogs lie.  

Thanks you for being kind and helpful.

Tami


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## damnthatsgood (May 24, 2014)

KC5TPY said:


> All is NOT fine,  I will leave it there.
> 
> Danny


Dude, please don't be mad.  Is this because you can't pronounce aluminum correctly?  Seriously, it's okay with us.  Right, guys?


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## tonyabeachlover (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> Smith Forge Hard Cidar for the pans.


I don't understand why it's fine to cook with liquid that has been in an aluminum can for who knows how long but it's dangerous to wrap your food for an hour or two with aluminum foil????   : /


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## shtrdave (May 24, 2014)

Cook like you want top Sir, everyone has their own thoughts, I use foil to wrap  in at times. If you are not wanting the foil touching your food, stop by Sams and grab a roll of butcher paper 1000 foot roll is like 18 bucks and 18" wide. Wrap the food in it and then in some towels, or once wrapped in paper you could wrap in foil and then a towel. There are almost a;ways ways around an issue.

Myself if I were going to be concerned about anything I cook with it would be plastics, nothing natural about that stuff, unlike Aluminum which is a natural mineral.

Lets see some shots of those when they are done.


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## atomicsmoke (May 24, 2014)

JP61 said:


> In today's world, if I were to take every scientific and/or expert advice/warning to heart, I'd be living in a bubble, sipping carrot-juice through a food-grade stainless-steel straw with one eye fixed to the sky :duck:



Carrot juice is verboten too. It has been associated with botulism.


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## dcarch (May 24, 2014)

One thing to keep in mind:

Aluminum, when exposed to air, immediately forms a thin layer of aluminum oxide (passivation), which is extremely tough (  Rubies  and sapphires  are aluminum oxides  )and insoluble in water.

dcarch


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

AK1 said:


> Well, no you can't do that. There is a possibility that the carrot could have absorbed something that may not be good for you. Then that stainless steel straw contains chromium, which definitely is not good for you. There's also copper, manganese, carbon, nickel, molybdenum...


Almost on a weekly basis "research scientists" come out with new and/or revisited, peer reviewed "studies" that warn us of the possible dangers in our daily lives. At the same time a list of things we can eat, take or do to significantly improve our lives and longevity. Then, at some point comes the flip-flop or even flip-flop of the flip-flop....lol. For years we were told that dark chocolate and red wine are good for us...... now, the latest.... they don't do squat! And the list goes on and on and on..... How the heck does a person live by those suggestions/warnings?


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## ak1 (May 24, 2014)

Simple!  You don't. You enjoy your life, you eat all kinds of stuff in moderation and don't worry about it.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

AK1 said:


> Simple!  You don't. You enjoy your life, you eat all kinds of stuff in moderation and don't worry about it.


That's the philosophy I try to live by also but, even without cable TV, it's difficult to tune out all the 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  telling me what I should do for my own good.







  Speaking of moderation..... are two fatties in two weeks considered to be in moderation? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





......... pardon me!


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## daveomak (May 24, 2014)

JP61 said:


> :biggrin:  Speaking of moderation..... are two fatties in two weeks considered to be in moderation? :th_anim_burp: ......... pardon me!





If you wrap asparagus or broccoli in the center, you should be good to go on 3 per week....


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> If you wrap asparagus or broccoli in the center, you should be good to go on 3 per week....









  Thanks Dave!


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## forluvofsmoke (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> Thanks Eric,
> 
> I am beginning to understand that there are many complexities when grilling/smoking meat.  Your ability to get out information to the point is well done.  I have a lot to learn...
> 
> ...


Again, you're welcome. With outdoor cooking, things can get complicated, yes, but they don't necessarily need to be as such. I find myself looking for simpler methods, or using those which I already know to be simple, or simpler seasoning blends, at times. There are many methods that can be incorporated into your smoking and grilling, but that doesn't mean you have to use them. KISS method comes to mind...use what works for you, your cooker, and as you gain experience, you will find there are little things you can do with certain cuts of meat, for example, to change things up and make it a little better than the last time you made it. There's no need to fret over any of it, in fact, that takes all the fun out of it, IMHO. Experimenting with some basic knowledge and methods, while following safe food handling practices, of course, can give you a lot of insight which you can carry forward to the next day you get to spend time with your cooker. As time passes, you gain experience and a better sense of confidence in your skills...and the cycle continues. Every cook becomes an easier task, becomes more enjoyable, less stressful (cooking should NEVER be stressful, it should be fun and relaxing) and allows you to consider more ways to create a meal. There are a wide variety of foods that can be smoked or grilled, and probably just as many methods to accomplish the goal of making a good (hopefully great) meal from these foods.

I can and have used some rather complicated methods with multiple cookers for a single meal, or just one cooker for the entire meal...they have all been rewarding, with a great dining experience. In recent years, I have come to realize that it's not just the methods as much as it is the ingredients and care used in creating a meal that makes it stand apart from the ordinary. A little creativity goes a long way. When your creativity begins to flow freely is when you can begin to see your true potential, and then nothing seems unthinkable or impossible to accomplish with a smoker. It took me a few months for that to happen after joining SMF, but when it did, all smokin' hell broke loose at my house...LOL!!! How far and how fast you let yourself go with it is entirely up to you. My only regret is that things got so fast-paced for me that I ran out of steam a couple years back, and haven't gotten that level of energy again since then. But, I still have the experience...nothing can take that away from me. The methods I fine-tuned for my personal preferences are still with me, as well as the recipes I formulated, from simple to complex. So, I can roll with whatever I choose when I decide to fire up for a smoke...that's part of the beauty of it all...it never leaves you. Sure, I still experiment from time to time, but not at the pace I did a few years back, and I do still enjoy the journey of making it all come together and sharing it with family and friends...even here on the forums.

Being new to smoking is exciting, but I will caution you to set realistic goals. Start with simple dishes so you can get to know your cooker. If you decide you want to smoke a particular cut of beef or pork, poultry or fish, do some reading on it from reliable sources until you decide on a method you'd like to try with it. Look for the simple side of things and these will usually be easier to follow. More complicated methods tend to be used due to the ability to create a better finished product or a particular texture/characteristic, but until you have used simpler methods typical of a more basic product, you really have nothing to gauge other more complicated methods with.

Tami, I'm looking forward to reading more from you and giving what I can...just paying it forward. It's been a pleasure!!! I don't know everything there is to know about smoking in my somewhat limited 8 years of getting really involved in it (after 6 years of just basically puddling around), and I'm not ashamed to say I'm still learning. So, when you say you've got a lot to learn, yes, to some degree, you do. However, you don't need to know a ton to be quite capable with a smoker or grill, just the same as indoor cooking...your skill-set and knowledge will determine what you can cook. Take it one day, one smoke, one cut of meat at a time...everything will come together and present itself to you with each meal you create. With everything, there is a learning curve...it may begin as quite steep, then over time and with practice, the curve flattens out. You'll do fine...just be patient with yourself...and, remember: there's no such thing as a stupid question, so when in doubt, just ask.

Eric


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## GaryHibbert (May 24, 2014)

Hey

Welcome to the Smoking  forum.   You’ll find great , friendly people here, all more than willing to answer any question you may have.  Just ask and you’ll get about 10 different answers—all right.  LOL.   Don’t forget to post qviews.

Gary


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## damnthatsgood (May 24, 2014)

Right, wrong, or indifferent, my wife read these posts and said I should be ashamed of myself.  And she's right.  This really is no way to treat a new member, old member, or any other human being at all.  I also got a strong wake up call from a fellow human being on this forum.  I'm not taking the high road here, believe me.  This is me being real--just from the other direction.

Peace, OP.  Happy smoken.


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## jp61 (May 25, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> OP is just fine.  I kinda thought that my question was a bit too much to start with.  I am so busy smoking meat that I have moved on.  I will continue to ask question tho.  Thank you for the concern.  I work with the public as a service worker and meet these confrontations continually.  Happy Memorial Day!


Happy Memorial Day to you as well, smo-kingmamma!











  to SMF!  

Hope someone had an answer to your question and your BBQ turned out well. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  I am totally exhausted and have no further comment at this time.

Take care!


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## smo-kingmamma (May 25, 2014)

Thanks Eric,

I spent the entire day yesterday enjoying our new smoker.  I like the idea of preparing something that will take 4-6 hours to cook.  It gave me a lot of time to hang with the hubbie and the kids.  They are pretty easy to please as a whole and loved everything that I made.  I smoked Vidalia onions in hard cidar bath and they taste great and will be used today for burger toppings.  Also, garlic and jalepeno smoked in a ceramic dish while smoking the short ribs lended a nice sweet flavor to everything in the smoker.  Thank you for your helpful insights.  I got rave reviews on everything and am ready for the next challenge.

Tami













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This is how it all started.  My photos are a bit out of order.  

Have a great weekend!

Tami


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## shtrdave (May 25, 2014)

It all looks really good and as long as the family enjoyed that is all that counts.


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## boykjo (May 25, 2014)

Nice Dino Bones... Great Job


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## timberjet (May 25, 2014)

Looks great from here. Love the sweet onions this time of year!


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## jp61 (May 25, 2014)

Very nice!







  They look even better in this thread!


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## forluvofsmoke (May 25, 2014)

Ah, man...now I wish I wasn't just vegging-out today...I shoulda planned a dinner for today...that looks fantastic!

Looks like you've been doing this for years...you sure you're a smokin' newbie? LOL!!!

Eric


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## wensmoke (May 25, 2014)

We only joined today, and we already had some good advice. Our smoker was not smoking much, and someone said too much smoke was not good. We kept wondering why it didn't give out tons of smoke immediately. We are smoking our first beef brisket today. Any advice.


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## paulyetter (May 25, 2014)

TonyaBeachlover said:


> I don't understand why it's fine to cook with liquid that has been in an aluminum can for who knows how long but it's dangerous to wrap your food for an hour or two with aluminum foil????   : /


That is a good point. I would be interested in knowing the reason for this as well. Perhaps the thickness differential?


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## daveomak (May 25, 2014)

paulyetter said:


> That is a good point. I would be interested in knowing the reason for this as well. Perhaps the thickness differential?




Because aluminum can react with sodas and stuff in it...... and the new aluminum cans are about 0.005 " thick, they have a spray food grade coating to protect them from corrosion....


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## dirtsailor2003 (May 25, 2014)

image.jpg



__ dirtsailor2003
__ May 25, 2014






When I smoke using foil pans, and tin foil I wear my protective helmet!


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## smo-kingmamma (May 26, 2014)

Will I ever live this down?


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## jp61 (May 26, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> Will I ever live this down?









  Yes, you will.


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## pineywoods (May 26, 2014)

I think this thread has more than run it's course and I'm closing it.


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## smo-kingmamma (May 23, 2014)

Anyone out there have a replacement idea around aluminum foil?  I know that smoking meat has it's own health risks, but I am not going to wrap my meat in aluminum for any period of time.  There is a known dementia/alzheimers risk.  Maybe a Dutch oven if it is brought up to temp.?


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## pc farmer (May 23, 2014)

We all have to die of something.  LOL

I dont wrap anything while on the smoker.

After pullin off of smoker, maybe two hours.

Dont think its gonna hurt me.


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## daveomak (May 23, 2014)

In order for the aluminum to dissolve, it needs an alkaline medium to dissolve it or something like Aqua-Regia, a powerful acid... or hydrofluoric acid....   You can always use butcher paper....  The NON plasticized stuff.....   

Dave


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## forluvofsmoke (May 23, 2014)

I use foil-covered pans all the time...basically no contact with the food touching the foil. Ceramic coated roasting pans work well for this, and if you have a matching cover, such as with a turkey roaster, all the better. If this method is used for resting brisket or pork shoulder, for example, it will not hold at temp for as long as foil/towel wrap, but preheating the pan/cover does help.

I have used aluminum baking pans with a foil cover...would that be any different than foiling? Anyway, standard kitchen cookware can be quite useful for smoked meats needing to rest before serving...no real need for anything that's special-purpose...just has to be large enough to hold the meat.

Eric


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## ak1 (May 23, 2014)

Last I checked there was no corelation between aluminium & alzheimers that any quantifiable study could prove. 

I look at it this way; There is one thing that is given and undeniable, I am going to die.  Now, I can read stories that this or that is going to kill me. Maybe, maybe not.  I've got maybe 80 yrs on this planet. I'm going to enjoy my time here, not spend it worrying about this or that. I figure, I'll go when I go. I'll enjoy my journey.


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## aeroforce100 (May 24, 2014)

I thought the Aluminum foil and Alzheimer's died out a few years ago.  Guess it it true, once on the net, always on the net.


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## gary s (May 24, 2014)

Hello and welcome, Wasn't aware of that one. You can find anything on the net, just have to make sure it comes from a reliable source that have done studies and test. I have beenusing butcher paper on my briskets for several years, still foil ribs and pork butt though.

Gary s


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

*By Dr. Mercola*


> Aluminum has been long known to be neurotoxic, with mounting evidence that chronic exposure is a factor in many neurological diseases, including dementia, autism, and Parkinson's disease.
> 
> However, definitive scientific proof is difficult to establish due toth the lack of longitudinal studies, as well as pushback from industries that use aluminum in their products. Despite the shortage of conclusive studies, mounting scientific evidence really leaves little room for doubt.
> 
> ...


Thanks for everyone's opinion.  I am glad that some of you understand that there are ways to do things differently and that is what I was looking for, suggested ideas, not judgement or moral or educational slant.  Aluminum which is a soft metal, doesn't go near heat and my food.   I am new to smoking meats and loving the communities helpful suggestions and insight.


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## smo-kingmamma (May 24, 2014)

Hi Eric, thanks for the helpful hints.  Is holding to temp. for when you are serving meat a while after it rests or need to travel etc?  Is holding it up to temp a way for it to cool more slowly?  I am very new and keep seeing the aluminum and towel idea, but I apparently don't get it.

Thanks.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> *By Dr. Mercola*
> 
> 
> > Aluminum has been long known to be neurotoxic, with mounting evidence that chronic exposure is a factor in many neurological diseases, including dementia, autism, and Parkinson's disease.
> ...









  How can one have mounting scientific evidence with a shortage of conclusive studies?







These researchers are bad for my health, they're freaking killing me........ who the heck is one to believe???







  Drinking water could kill me..... probably not a good idea to stop no matter what the conclusive evidence is.


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## demosthenes9 (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> *By Dr. Mercola*
> 
> 
> > Aluminum has been long known to be neurotoxic, with mounting evidence that chronic exposure is a factor in many neurological diseases, including dementia, autism, and Parkinson's disease.
> ...


Wow, I guess the whole concept of "correlation != causation" is out the window.    I guess if the individual in question had died from being hit by a meteorite, then aluminum would be the cause of that as well ?


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

Is *this* the great Dr. Mercola you're referring to?


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## gary s (May 24, 2014)

How many times a week would you need to be using foil to have an effect?  I am thinking that most of us on here would be doing good if used once a week, I am sure they may be some who wraps more. I grill probably 5 days out of the week and smoke once or three times a month, A lot of what I wrap in foil is only in it for a short period of time. I don't think it effected my mind, I don't think it has effected my mind, I don't think it has effected my mind, What were we talking about.

Gary S


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## daveomak (May 24, 2014)

*FDA Orders Dr. Joseph Mercola to Stop Illegal Claims .....*

Many of Mercola's articles make unsubstantiated claims and clash with those of leading medical and public health organizations. For example, he opposes immunization [4] fluoridation [5], mammography [6], and the routine administration of vitamin K shots to the newborn [7]; claims that amalgam fillings are toxic [8]; and makes many unsubstantiated recommendations for dietary supplements. Mercola's reach has been greatly boosted by repeated promotion on the "Dr. Oz Show." 

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html


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## kc5tpy (May 24, 2014)

Hello.  Welcome to the forum.  I just have to offer my worthless 2 cents here.  If NOT using aluminium foil is a life style choice for you then that is your choice and I have no comment.  Most members, and many professional chefs recommend wrapping meat in foil to rest.  Please forgive me, I don't mean to be confrontational at all but IMHO we just can't let info like this be put on the site without all the info we can provide being included.  We can't allow new folks to be afraid to use a product based on partial information.  Just my opinion; could be wrong, have been in the past.  I have done a lot of reading about aluminium cookware as I had your same concerns.  Now if you read your last post you will see that the evidence you quoted was from a worker exposed to aluminium ( probably ) on a daily bases.  This was most probably aluminium dust which was probably inhaled; maybe not but as you didn't include further info we don't know.  From my research I agree with what DaveOmak posted above.  It takes a really strong acid to break down the aluminium.  Use the equipment properly.  Now, because of that info I don't use anything aluminium when I make tomato sauces and such BUT that is just my choice.  Tomatoes do not contain enough acid to start breaking down the aluminium from my research but I chose not to use it.  Asbestos is not dangerous if left undisturbed and the particles don't become airborne.  If aluminium foil was that big of a risk the USDA would pull it off the market.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## timberjet (May 24, 2014)

It seems to me that you would have to inhale powdered aluminum or ingest it somehow to have it affect you. I don't really think wrapping your meat with it will harm you. Just an opinion but makes sense to me.


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## atomicsmoke (May 24, 2014)

smo-kingmamma said:


> *By Dr. Mercola*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's quite a study...
population... one.  

Wear your seatbelt, get a flu shot. Sugar in the BBQ sauce and rubs will kill us before the aluminum foil will.


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## timberjet (May 24, 2014)

I really do want one of those big stone casseroles rather than using disposable aluminum pans so much though. One with a well designed lid would be really cool. My mother has one from pampered chef but I think that thing was over a hundred bucks. Sure is nice though, and that would probably solve your problem, or paranoia or whatever.


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## damnthatsgood (May 24, 2014)

TL;DR - we've been studying this "correlation" for a long, long time with nothing that proves aluminum causes Alzheimer's.  And furthermore, you get sooooooooo much aluminum just from water and food, that not using foil or pans that contain aluminum isn't "I'm trying to limit it as much as possible".  Instead, it's "What you're doing is pointless, so take off the tinfoil hat and live your life before you're 80 years old and have a stack of regrets."
 

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=102

*Aluminium* – Very low levels of many metals are present in the brain. Aluminium is a toxic metal that is common in our everyday environment. Small amounts of it are found in water and food. Although initial studies linked aluminium toxicity with Alzheimer's disease, the link has not been proven despite continuing investigation. Importantly, there is no evidence to suggest that aluminium exposure increases your risk of dementia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...726998-ae75-11e2-98ef-d1072ed3cc27_story.html

Avoiding all aluminum isn’t possible, because the metal is so ubiquitous. If Alzheimer’s is your worry, you’re better off making sure to keep your mind active and your heart healthy, Borenstein says. In the long run, these steps will do far more to protect your brain.

http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2010/04/take_a_shine_to_aluminum_foil.html

*Q: Can using aluminum foil cause Alzheimer's or other neurological diseases? *

*A:* It depends on who you ask. Naturopathic types would argue yes, but the western medical establishment would say no. According to food scientist Robert Wolke, some people have suspected a link between aluminum and Alzheimer's, Lou Gehrig's and Parkinson's diseases for about two decades, but it has not been proved. Besides, most of our aluminum intake comes from our food and water, not the foil we use. Aluminum is the most abundant metal in the Earth's crust and is widely distributed in soil, plants and water. Our bodies absorb less than 1percent of what they take in.


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## jp61 (May 24, 2014)

*BREAKING NEWS... ... ...*

*We have a live feed from planet earth with Sr. Galactic Correspondent jp61*

Hello folks, unfortunately I have bad news.

Scientist and Experts from Uranus for the first time, have conclusive evidence that breathing on planet earth is *DANGEROUS *to your health!!!

It turns out that fire ant flatulence is toxic. Authorities have all available resources dispatched to deal with the crisis. 

*Stay tuned, developing....*







..... sorry OP, sometimes I just can't stop myself. 

Do as you wish, it's your life and your choice.

I would like to suggest an equal concern for food safety.


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