# Vertical Offset smokers; does it matter if juice from meat above drips on meat below?



## nathanjwtx (Jun 14, 2016)

I'm looking at a Dyna-Glo vertical offset smoker, the regular rather than the wide (although same question would apply to any vertical smoker I guess) . So far I've only used a horizontal smoker. If I want to do a brisket and a pork shoulder at the same time, do I need to worry about juice/fat dripping down? Or is it as simple as a foil tray on rack below? Would these foil trays interfer with the heat and smoke? They would also seem to take up valuable cooking space to me though.

Sorry if it's a silly noob question


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## gomez93 (Jun 14, 2016)

Do it all the time. Some folks like the pork drippings basting the brisket, some the other way around it's just personal preference.
The only think I won't do is let poultry drip on anything but other poultry.


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## daveomak (Jun 14, 2016)

*Taken from Chef JJ answer on another thread..*

Chicken juice dripping on other food in your smoker...

　

Sorry Guys but...IT JUST DON'T MATTER! Chicken on top, Chicken on bottom? Don't matter...Let's look at the Worst Case scenario.

You are smoking a rack of Ribs, 225°F, at the 4 hours mark you put a whole drippy Chicken on top for a 2 hour smoke. Red Bacteria laden Chix juices are oozing all over the Ribs...ONE MINUTE later you realize the smoker temps were higher than you thought, this whole time the smoker was at 275°F, and Those Ribs Are Done! You immediately remove the Ribs...Any Problem here???? Is a trip to the Hospital certain??? *NOPE!*

The " surface " of those Ribs are 275°F! There is not a single Bacteria known to man that can survive more than few SECONDS at 165°F !!! There is just No Way the Salmonella, or anything else, see Dave Omak's chart below right column, could possibly survive contact with the 275°F surface of the Ribs. ALL Bacteria are Instantly killed and there is no chance of food-borne illness eating those Chicken basted Ribs...Even with Rare Steak. Bacteria can't Bore into the happily cool center and the Surface is 275°...More than instant Death to all!

Ok...There is mentally some YUCK factor because raw Chicken juices dripping sounds nasty but no Safety issues exist. In every other case the Chicken and other meat will be in the 225+ temps for hours. Above or below, again all bacteria is killed...JJ













Pathogen growth temps.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jun 8, 2016


















Pathogen growth temps.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jun 8, 2016






　

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You are welcome Danny. In restaurants, Raw Meat is kept away from foods that may not be cooked further such as produce but, with non-allergenic meats, keeping chicken away from others is not considered critical. It all gets cooked...JJ

　

Quote:

Originally Posted by *DaveOmak* /t/247595/vertical-smoking-and-cross-meat-contamination/t/247595/vertical-smoking-and-cross-meat-contamination

So, if chicken and ground beef are kept together, and the chicken drips on the ground beef, that's OK... because we are going to cook the ground beef...

Yes...Why, what is the problem? Since the Jack In The Box, E-Coli Lawsuit, Fastfood Restaurants cook to 165 and higher end Burger joints like Red Robin go to 155-160°F, if burgers are ordered Pink, jf not specified, they cook to 165. The $25 Burger places go at least 150°F and let them rest 3-5 minutes. So even in these places, there is no Salmonella issue.

http://www.scienceofcooking.com/important_cooking_temperatures.htm

I spent 3 years in Grocery in the late 70's and a year as a Deli Manager in '99 sharing a walk-in refer with meat and seafood. In both jobs I handled Meat Deliveries. Palate loads are mixed cases of Pork, Beef, Fish and Chicken. Chicken is loose and packed on ice. These cases leak like sieves all over everything. The employees handle all the meat, portioning and wrapping. The job is nonstop and NOTHING, tables, wrapping equipment, uniforms, aprons, etc, gets cleaned until the night crew comes in to Power Wash.

Restaurants get meat deliveries the same way. The various meats get portioned and go in small holding pans, the pans go on the line in refrigerated drawers. When you are getting 30+ orders in quick succession, you grab a Chicken Breast it goes in the pan or on the grill, the Steak and Burger are the next grab and go. Most restaurants use Tongs but not all. What the Chicken drips on is of no concern because the Burgers, Chops and Steaks are all going to be cooked. Do you thing the Line Cooks are going to stop cooking during a rush to Wash and Sanitize between handling Chicken and Burgers? Why would they? Cooking kills Bacteria...JJ


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## dward51 (Jun 14, 2016)

If you ever watch a video of Southern Pride or other commercial smokers with the rotating food trays, all of the food is "basting" the other food with drippings.  That's a feature of the smoker design. 

About the only issue I could see would be if you had been running food below on a fixed grate (or in the rotating racks) that was mostly done, and you add raw chicken above.  Might sear off in a few seconds like Dave said, but I would not be comfortable mixing raw with done like that.


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## nathanjwtx (Jun 14, 2016)

Awesome, thanks for the advice. I figured it wasn't much of an issue else these smokers wouldn't be so popular.

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## daveomak (Jun 14, 2016)

dward51 said:


> If you ever watch a video of Southern Pride or other commercial smokers with the rotating food trays, all of the food is "basting" the other food with drippings.  That's a feature of the smoker design.
> 
> About the only issue I could see would be if you had been running food below on a fixed grate (or in the rotating racks) that was mostly done, and you add raw chicken above.  Might sear off in a few seconds like Dave said, but I would not be comfortable mixing raw with done like that.


Howdy.....    Dave didn't say that....   Chef JimmyJ noted that it was OK.....   

Personally, I would never place chicken above beef or pork....  Chicken needs to cook to 165 and beef and pork to 145...  NOW, it may sear off and kill the chicken pathogens but I wouldn't take the chance....   that's me....   Sometimes I eat beef that's been cooked to an internal temp of 130... 

There is a pasteurization table that allows for "Safe to Eat" foods cooked to a lower temperature as long as TIME is involved....  the added time, at lower temps, will kill pathogens of interest...

Below are some TIME and TEMPERATURE charts for those interested.....

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

Temp °F / Time for 5.0 log Reduction

Unit Time

130.......... .86 min.

131 ...........69 min.

132.......... 55 min.

133.......... 44 min.

134............ 35 min.

135............. 28 min.

136 ..............22 min.

137 ...............18 min.

138 ...............14 min.

139............... 11 min.

140 ..............9 min.

141.............. 7 min.

142 .............6 min.

143 .............5 min.

144 .............4 min.

145 .............3 min.

146 ..............130 sec.

147.............. 103 sec.

148 ..............82 sec.

149 ..............65 sec.

150............... 52 sec.

151................ 41 sec.

152................ 33 sec.

153 ................26 sec.

154 ................21 sec.

155 ................17 sec.

156 .................14 sec.

157 ..................11 sec.

158 ...................0 sec.

159 ....................0 sec.

160 ....................0 sec.

The required lethalities are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158 °F or above. Humidity must be considered when using this Time/Temperature table.

This Time/Temperature table is based on Thermal Death Curve for Salmonella in Beef Emulsions in tubes (Derived from Goodfellow & Brown1, 1978) Regulatory Curve obtained from Jerry Carosella, Deputy Director, Microbiology Division, Science and Technology. All times that were a fraction of a minute or second was rounded up to the next whole number (e.g., 16.2 seconds for 155 °F was round up to 17 seconds).

________________________ 1. Goodfellow, S. J. and W. L. Brown. 1978. Fate of Salmonella Inoculated into Beef for Cooking. Journal of Food Protection. 41:598-605.

POULTRY CHART...

Temperature........

...................... Time

°F (°C).............. 12% fat

136 (57.8)......... 81.4 min

137 (58.3)........ 65.5 min

138 (58.9)........ 52.9 min

139 (59.4)........ 43 min

140 (60.0)........ 35 min

141 (60.6)........ 28.7 min

142 (61.1)........ 23.7 min

143 (61.7)........ 19.8 min

144 (62.2)........ 16.6 min

145 (62.8)........ 13.8 min

146 (63.3)........ 11.5 min

148 (64.4)........ 7.7 min

150 (65.6)........ 4.9 min

152 (66.7)........ 2.8 min

154 (67.8)........ 1.6 min

156 (68.9)........ 1 min

158 (70.0)........ 40.9 sec

160 (71.1)........ 26.9 sec

162 (72.2)........ 17.7 sec

164 (73.3)........ 11.7 sec

166 (74.4)........ 0 sec

Table C.2: Pasteurization times for a 7D reduction in Salmonella for chicken and turkey (FSIS, 2005).


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## nathanjwtx (Jun 14, 2016)

Now that is some science! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

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