# Here Piggy-Piggy Brine, Hawg Heaven Rub: 2 Butts, Recipes, Q-view (#1 sliced, #2 pulled)



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 24, 2011)

Hey-hey, smoke lovers!

I had a slight delema with my "steak ready" pork butts which I started thawing on 04-14-11. I popped them into the fridge in hopes that they would be thawed enough to smoke on my last days-off work, however, they weren't quite ready until late in the afternoon on Tuesday (04-19-11), and I had work the next day. So, I worked for 2 days while the butts were nearly completely thawed, and by this time, I'm thinking I need to do something with the pork or loose it (non-enhanced pork). On the evening of 04-21-11, I whipped up a brine for them to soak in for the remaining ~48 hours until I would be able to smoke 'em up. Last night I conjured up a new dry rub, which is based on my three favorite flavor sensations: apple, cherry and red bell pepper...they're all great in duo combinations, I figured I'd make a full-blown trio and see where it takes my brined butts.

All that, and after my last q-view, I thought I was gonna slow down...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






...go figure...must have something to do with giving back to the roots of my smoking success here on SMF. With that, here goes another journey!
The butts hit the brine @ 11:00 pm on the 21st, and are hitting the smoke for Easter Sunday for sliced with one and pulled pork for the freezer with the second butt.
HERE PIGGY-PIGGY BRINE

***for 2 pork butts, approx 16lbs in a 5 gallon covered bucket***

2 qts water in saucepan

1/4 cup celery salt

1 cup sea salt

4 Tbls diced dried red bell pepper

2 Tbls rosemary

6 Tbls light brown sugar

1/2 Tbls cumin

2 Tbls chili powder

2 Tbls cayenne pepper

1 tsp cinnamon

2 tsp thyme

1 tsp marjoram

1 tsp fennel seed

1 tsp sage

4 qts ice water (mix into brine solution after removed from heat and partially cooled)
The brine is chilling with ice:












Two butts in a 5-gallon food-grade pail with the fat caps against each other...not sure about this, but my theory is that if the fat is
touching instead of the meat, the brine may penetrate more. It seems that fat slows everything down (smoke, cure, brine, marinates), so I figured by keeping the meat surfaces away from each other, there would be more meat surface exposed to the brine solution, thereby providing the most penetration. My reason for using 1 large bucket for both butts is that my smaller containers suitable for brining are only 6qt...just big enough for an average yard bird, but not big enough for a single butt:













6qts of brine was perfect for this bucket with the size of the butts...they're submerged about 1 to 1-1/4" below the surface:






HAWG HEAVEN DRY RUB

***for approx 15-16lbs of brined pork butts***

4 Tbls ground apple

4 Tbls ground red bell pepper

3 Tbls ground tart cherry

1 Tbls ground rosemary

2 tsp ground oregano

2 tsp thyme

1 Tbls onion powder

1 tsp cumin

1 tsp ground sage

1 tsp chili powder

1 Tbls spanish paprika

1.5 Tbls gound black peppercorn

1.5 Tbls garlic

***makes approx 1 cup after a triple-grind***

note: if using for non-brined pork, add salt as desired
I forgot to grab the camera when I did it, but I poured the brine back into my 6qt food container before dumping it. It appeared to be just short of a 1/2 quart of water missing from the total volume of liquids, so those little piggies were pretty thirsty.

Rinsed and ready for the rub...you can see a couple small spots which have a slight pink colo to them...this is where the meat was touching the bucket, so there's definitely a big difference:

























Into the Smoke Vault 24 @ 225* for a long night's ride through the thin blue smoke:













Since I have apple and cherry based flavor profiles, I opted for those smoke woods as well. If there were red bell pepper wood, I'd probably be using it, too...LOL!!! TBS just getting started...apple on the left, cherry taking center, with pecan on the right, just because I love the pungent aroma of this wood so much. I've used these three woods in duo and trio combos alot lately, and can't seem to find anything I don't like them with (within reason):













Smoke is on @ 11:15 pm mountain time...just wanted to get this up and started for now, so my friends don't miss out on recipes or any of the action later.

I didn't get to weigh these (broke my high-capacity scale on the last smoke) and they're from a twin-pack case-purchase (un-labeled), but the biggest looks and feels like almost 9lb and smallest about 7lb. I'll probably be slicing the bigger one for Easther dinner and poulling the smallest, but we'll see how they come out. Hmm, I just realized it...I've never sliced a butt, after all these years, I've been pulling my butts and picnics.

Temp probing in the morning when I crawl out of bed...yep, I learned how to sleep during all-nighters, just like the UDS boys do it.

See ya Sunday with the finished pics and brine/rub reviews! Thanks for checking out my latest creation!

Eric


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## boykjo (Apr 24, 2011)

Great start eric . I always enjoy your smoking adventures........


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## SmokinAl (Apr 24, 2011)

Always look forward to your threads Eric. Can't wait to see the finish of this one.


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## Bearcarver (Apr 24, 2011)

SmokinAl said:


> Always look forward to your threads Eric. Can't wait to see the finish of this one.


Ditto to what Al said!

Now move over Al, and give an Old Bear a seat !

Want some of my popcorn?







Bear


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## bassman (Apr 24, 2011)

Well Eric, I've never brined a butt, so I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.  I'm quite sure it will be great, especially with the Hawg rub.  Looking forward to the finished pics.


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## fife (Apr 24, 2011)

Keep them coming


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks fellas! Man, I can hardly wait to taste this combination. I know the butts took on alot of brine, and with the dry rub, it should be a killer match-up.

9.5 hours in, and all is well...I grabbed a couple quick shots for everyone's drooling pleasures before checking temps. This dry rub is slowly carmelizing from the natural sugars in the ground apple/cherry...should be a great color when it's finished.

The big pig is @ 157*, and the smaller one's @ 160*:



















Temps will determine which one will get sliced for dinner today and which will get pulled for the freezer, and I *think* the larger of the two will be for dinner. The way I see it shaking out, the small one will be above 180* by 4:00 pm when I'll want to wrap and rest the slicing subject (I want to slice thick and still be tender), while the larger one should be through it's stall(s) and coming in closer to my desired temp by then. I won't foil either one to bring to finish temps if I can help it...we love the bark on butts since the first one I tried this way, and no foiling will keep the temp-rise at a pretty slow pace. We'll see what happens, as I've been wrong before...nothin' like a big 'ol hunka meat to throw a wrench in yer gears...about the time ya think you've got 'em figured out, they prove ya wrong...LOL!!!

Oh, I forgot to mention a couple things which some of you probably noticed already, but, these are bone-in butts, and when preparing to rub, I scored the fat cap and layed fat-cap up in the smoker for self basting. There wasn't alot of cap on these so it should have some nice crispy spots...love the crisp bits of fat in pulled pork, or on a sliced piece of meat for that matter.

OK, time to shut my pie-hole, 'cause all this writing is making me hungry with the anticipation of sampling my latest creation! LOL!!!

More to come!

Eric


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## kingkoch42 (Apr 24, 2011)

gone


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## gotarace (Apr 24, 2011)

Eric looking fantastic again. Your detailed threads with complete processes help make us all better smokers...Thank You.


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## Bearcarver (Apr 24, 2011)

forluvofsmoke said:


> OK, time to shut my pie-hole, *'cause all this writing is making me hungry with the anticipation of sampling my latest creation!* LOL!!!
> 
> More to come!
> 
> Eric


Makin' you hungry?!?!?!

What the Heck do you think you do to all of us, who just get to watch from a thousand miles away???????

I want to see those slices. I have never sliced a butt (as yet) either!

Zoom one in, so I can feel like I fell down & I'm crawling around through the juices on the slices!

Do you think I need help?

Bear


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## SmokinAl (Apr 24, 2011)

I always pull mine too. Looking forward to the sliced pics as well.


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## beer-b-q (Apr 24, 2011)

Those are starting to look awful good Eric...


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 24, 2011)

Bassman said:


> Well Eric, I've never brined a butt, so I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.  I'm quite sure it will be great, especially with the Hawg rub.  Looking forward to the finished pics.


I've brined a few butts before, though a few of them were already enhanced...benefits to brining in that case wasn't that noticable. I have had the opportunity to smoke a fresh butt without brining, and one or two with brine and there is a big difference in finished product...un-brined didn't want to pull very easily and seemed just a tad on the dry side. Oh, and brined pork chops? Ever try that number? Definitely worth the effort...we love 'em!
 




gotarace said:


> Eric looking fantastic again. Your detailed threads with complete processes help make us all better smokers...Thank You.


Thanks, hey I don't know if I can make anyone be a better smoker or not...gotta have the desire to do well at anything, or it won't happen...main thing is, if you get some inspiration to try something new, then your interest is already captured, and you'll do whatever it takes to make it come together. I do like to give a few extra details to help take the edge off for those who may be on the fence...give 'em a little nudge so to speak, and once they take that first step, they're on their way down the road to success.

I'm not shy about sharing my successes here with all my friends...even those which the outcome has yet to be determined, as is the case here...experimental brine, experimental rub. The thing is, I haven't had but just a handful of flops in the past couple years...I owe that to many other members here at SMF. So, I give back to those who inspired me to become who I am today in my outdoor kitchen. And so, the cycle continues...

 


Bearcarver said:


> Makin' you hungry?!?!?!
> 
> What the Heck do you think you do to all of us, who just get to watch from a thousand miles away???????
> 
> ...


Ha-ha-ha!!! Yea, the sliced, man, I gotta try it. You want me to pull it in close like I did with the pastrami, I take it. So you cvan see the individual meat fibers and pockets of fat...almost microscope details. OK, well, maybe I shouldn't have merntioned that...I'll try though...gotta clean my camera lens for sure to get that tight of shots.

Need help? Ah, maybe, but that's why we all hang out here...LOL!!!!!!!

Eric


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 24, 2011)

Looks like the smaller butt will go under the knife for our dinner tonight afterall, as it was 174* a few minutes before I peeked, and just hit 175* @ 16 hrs in. The biggest one's @ 169*, so it'll never make 180* in less than 2 hours, so he get's pulled.

The bark color is turning a nice deep brown now, and the bones are showing much more now...cookin' right along::













I need to order another digital probe...my last of 3 Acurite brand has finally had it's probe cable damaged, and my newest one in use today is the only one remaining in my aresenal. Two would have been nice for today, but not really a must...I know the bigest butt will probably be a midnight run...funny thing is, I started this smoke at 11:15 pm last night...ah, ya gotta love a good, long smoke now and then, right?
Here's a little Easter story for ya...

My oldest daugther loaded and hid all the plastic eggs for our youngest of the clan to find. She put a rock with a band-aid still in the wrapper into one egg, with an inscription on the band-aid reading: this is for the burn...

Ah, she wasn't too mean...only one out of 36 that was a "rotten egg".
TIC-TOC---TIC-TOC....................

Eric


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## les3176 (Apr 24, 2011)

Looks great! Can't wait to see the finished pics. Another great post from the mad scientist of smoke!!!


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## jirodriguez (Apr 24, 2011)

Man... those look good! Now I got just one question..... how do you "grind" cherrys and apples?


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 24, 2011)

Man, who would have thought...the small butt rode it out for 18.25 hours until I yanked it to foil/wrap/rest @ 181*. The bigger one was still rolling with an I/T of 176* @ 18.5 hours in...it maybe pushing 22-23 hours plus before it comes out @ 200* to rest in foil/towel. Here's one factor which I recently learned to be true regarding elevation: (example) if you do alot of oven cooking, and a recipe calls for 30 minutes @ 350*, but then states to increase cooking time at higher elevations? Same is true for smokers...either a slightly higher temp, or longer times are needed to achieve the same results as you would get at sea level vs ~5,000 ft where I'm located.

Anyway, that's been something I've been trying to take into consideration when I fire up a smoker. For this run, the danger zone wasn't of concern due to having intact whole muscle meats, but my smoke chamber temp of 225* would be comparable to somewhere in the neighborhood of 212-215* at sea level, maybe less.
The slicing subject, just out of the Vault:












I managed to stretch the resting for 1.25 hours...at first when I grabbed the bone, I thought I'd taken the temps too high. It was nearly pulling consistency. The bone, upper left pulled out nearly clean. I only had to break a small piece of bark to release it from the meat, so yes, it is very tender, just like I wanted.

The bare meat area is where the bone came out...I'll follow it down the side with a close-up of the bone cavity:



















OK, I need a plan here on slicing...cuting down the long side is accross the grain, but the pieces will be too large to handle for plating, and this is so tender that thin slicing will be nearly impossible while it's still hot. It would literally fall apart. So, I cut the butt in half next to the left of the bone cavity (with the grain), then I rotated the right-hand half 90 counter-clock-wise and sliced accross the grain into approx 1 to 1-1/8" thick slices. The bone cavity was already seperated meat, so of course, it wanted to fall to the board, but it gives a good look at the muscle areas which were attached to the bone...they're smooth and clean of any  tampering, so it's very close to pulling texture.

The with-grain cut looked dry at first, but that the nature of the cut, as it frays the meat fibers. The cross-grain slicing is where the rest of the story is told:













The two right-hand slices here show the bone cavity again...look for that smooth gray telltale sign of the missing bone:













This tells the the story of moisture...not dry, not spurting juices, just a nice, moist slice...I gotta tell ya, I was very pleasantly surprised to find this:



















You've probably already taken note of the bark...awesome! I can't wait to get into that bigger butt for pulling, 'cause the bark is gonna be even twice as well developed as this one.

The brine had a huge impact on flavor. I could taste it in the range of approx 3/4' into the meat from the bark/smoke for most of the depth into the shoulder. The very center there was an absence of these flavors, but it gave me a very good feel for total brine time needed with this salt content, and also a true way of tasting the meat with and without brine...I deliberately went for the med-section first, then the center, then the bark so I could find what everything did for me today.

I ran outside after eating and went straight to my freezer and dug out another twin-pack of butts to start thawing in my fridge while I waited for a pic to upload. I'm doing another batch of this pork ASAP, and I'm not one for doing repeats very often...I like to change things up from one smoke to the next, but this one really deserves a revisit. I want brine...all the way to the center of the butt, if possible, and I have the flavors worth going after again and again. This was a 2-day brine, and I was pretty close to having a full brine into the center, so, yea, we're doing this one again!

The dry rub? Yep, it's dangerously good, and the smoke was not hampering anything...brought it all together very nicely, with those milder sweeter aromas and flavors. I will say this: if you can get your hands on some pre-dried (or, dry your own) red bell peppers, apple slices and cherries, you won't be disappointed. NWDave has been using them as well...he'll tell ya what it's all about...scary good. There's not much I'd want to change with this round of brine or rub, other than a longer brine period of maybe 4 days, 3 for sure. I may want to increase the salt, maybe not. I'll have time to figure that out before my next butt smoke. I'll like leave everything alone and just give it more time. And, no I won't inject the brine in these, not when I have an intact whole muscle meat to work my magic with. OK, after thinking about it a minute, I may only take the temp to 175 or so for slicing, while still hitting the 200* mark for pulling.
So far, so great! I'm dying to hit that pulled pork, though, and it'll be resting 'til morning for sure! Oh, speaking of the pulling butt, last check it was stalled @ 179-180* for over 2 hours, and we're now @ 21.5 hours into the smoke...gonna be a long friggin night, but man, will it be worth it. No work for this boy in the morning, so bring on that 24-hr smoke...I can handle it! LOL!!!!!

See ya in the morning with pulled pork...this should be a killer bark, 'cause I refuse to foil this one!

Eric


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 24, 2011)

les3176 said:


> Looks great! Can't wait to see the finished pics. Another great post from the mad scientist of smoke!!!


Thanks Les, this is one wicked fun ride, so far!
 




JIRodriguez said:


> Man... those look good! Now I got just one question..... how do you "grind" cherrys and apples?


Thanks Johnny, the cherries and apples have to be well-dried and you can can grind them up in your spice/coffee grinder. The cherry processing is explained in the Wiki under "Cherry Dry Rub" found HERE.  I explain how I first made my cherry dry rub including mincing the dried cherries with a chef knife on a board, but have found that you can go straight to the grinder in smaller quantities...it's all in the Wiki for the cherry gig. The dried apple just needs to be broken small enough to fit into your grinder, a few quick pulses, and viola...apple powder! The red bell peppers are diced before dehydrating...at least that's the form I get them in, and they can go straight to the grinder.

Oh, if you have high humidy like NWDave, he knows of methods to help overcome some of the caking/clumping associated with that problem. He mentioned something about vac-sealing the powders into a canning jar, then regrinds to break it up when he mixes a batch of dry rub so he can get accurate measures, etc.

Eric


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## scarbelly (Apr 24, 2011)

Great job Eric. As always a great post too


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 25, 2011)

Thanks Scarbelly, it's turning into a long ride, but not too bad...cruise-mode as I call it.
Well, that 24-hr smoke I was talking about earlier? The 24 hr mark has come...and gone...just hit 193* @ 24.25 hours...at least the last stall is over now, and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Nice, deep, dark colored bark goin' on:







Still hangin' on for a no-foil 200* finished temp...not gonna budge either...past the point of no return...........OK, I do think I'm getting a bit rummy now, and it's not from liquor, either!

Pulled pork sometime in morning...

Eric


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 25, 2011)

25.5 hours and we're into the foil at last...

I preheated a large bath towel in the oven on a pan @ 170* while the butt was creeping over 199* (therm reads decimals), double foiled, wrapped it nice a snug and tossed in the "O" and turned it off. Should be good for at leat 6 hours, so we'll both take a nap now, as it's creeping up on 1:00 am now.














Until pork-pulling time, I bid you all good-night...craving some right now, but I already know it's gonna be some great eats, so time to go count piggy's playing in the mud (or something)...ha-ha!

Eric


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## SmokinAl (Apr 25, 2011)

Awesome Eric, I'll be curious to see if you like the sliced or pulled better. One things for sure I bet that bark tastes unbelievably good!


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## Bearcarver (Apr 25, 2011)

Just got done reading all of this---You must be a speed typer!

That bark is totally over the top!

And your close-ups are Awesome---And then they're even zoomable!

I hate when I left click on somebody's Qview, to zoom in, and the picture that shows up is the same size. Don't know what they do, but it defeats the whole purpose of being able to zoom in!!!!

I'll take a bark sammie, please!

Now I'm ready for that pulled pork!

Bear


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 25, 2011)

Here ya go, fellas...just a couple pics in good faith. Man, my wife and kids are saying I'm *the* Bbq chef, and all sorts of other nice stuff this morning...they really like the sliced and pulled pork...well, I do too. I know one thing, it would be a crying shame to not make these recipes again. If you guys and gals can get the apple/cherry/rpb thing goin' on? Man, it's like getting your first dutch oven...it opens up new horizons that you didn't even know existed. And, it's not just for _this_ brine & dry rub, I've done tons of stuff with the rbp, the cherry has been great to work with since I started with it, and the apple is a fairly new thing for me (just a few months), but the eats I've created with these are just ROCKIN'!!!













I didn't get a pic of the foil, but it just had maybe a tablespoon of rendered fat and that was it...didn't looser much of anything while resting, so that was pretty neat to see. The bowl of PP has no added liquids of any kind...just tossed pork.

That's a BIG bowl, at 12 qts, so it dwarfs the amount of PP. I pulled this with nothing but my long handled stainless tongs...seriously. No forks, no hot-hands gloves...1 set of tongs. This butt rested for 7 hours and was still pretty hot. Not hot enough to burn my hands on the foil as soon as you touched it, but inside was steaming when I peeled it open. Between the long rest and the brine, I think they both had a bit of influence on the pulling.

My wife says I haven't made any this good yet...I've done some mighty good eating pulled pork, but yea, this is topping my list at this point. Another "must redo"...heck, what do I mean? I don't have a list, I just go with the flow. Anyway, two more butts are thawing since yesterday evening, and I know exactly what their fate will be...I'm thinkin' 5-6 days thawing like these two had and 3-4 days brining for another round.

_*OH CRAP!!!*_ I just had a very humbling thought: if I keep going like this, I won't have any way to top my last smokes! What the heck will I have to look forward to then? Well, I will admit, I'd hve tons of great smoked/grilled meats to chow-down on, but is that where it ends? OK, I guess it'll come to me...I'm always looking for ways to make my food even better than it already is, so I guess if I started thinking that what I have may be as good as it gets, well, that would be like turning off my creativity circuit...flipping the switch...can't let that happen! I'll just keep on rolling with what ever feels good at the time...



SmokinAl said:


> Awesome Eric, I'll be curious to see if you like the sliced or pulled better. One things for sure I bet that bark tastes unbelievably good!


Thanks, you know, I find it difficult to choose which I like best...they're both really fine eating. The sliced gives some varying flavors throughout the meat due to the brine penetration, which is really cool to experience those layers of flavor. The PP is so tender with good moisture and the flavors of the brine, meat and bark are all sort of mixed together to some extent. There's still alot of intact bark to chew on as well. Dang, that's a tough one to answer, brother...OK, I think for me it's the sliced...maybe just because I've had alot of pulled and not sliced shoulder from the smoker...hmm...yep, tough to answer.

I will say that with the sliced there is a nicer bark due to not being in the foil for as long as the PP. The PP bark got really soft after the long rest, but either way, the flavors of the smoke and rub just come out screaming...in a good way. I think the tart cherry has its role in this because I taste that zestiness...very nice. The overall flavor profile is really a kick in the pants for me. Not a spicy-heat, even with all that cayenne in the brine, it seems to have smoothed over and melded together so well.


Bearcarver said:


> Just got done reading all of this---You must be a speed typer!
> 
> That bark is totally over the top!
> 
> ...


Ha-ha! I get a bit too fast on the keys at times, though, and make a ton of typos. Gotta pace myself sometimes if I get too excited about what I want to say.

Yea, that bark? Man, it's so dark, especially on the pulled shoulder due to being in the heat for so much longer. But, a charred taste? I didn't find it at all...just a really deep carmelized flavor from those natural sugars and oils.

The pics? I have noticed that on some posts myself. I think they may be zooming in with the camera, or something else with pic sizing when they upload...not sure. I don't mess with mine at all. And I find that if I zoom with the camera, the pics get grainy and coarse, so I like to bring it in as close as I can get it to focus and watch the angles so the flash doesn't make a shadow in the foreground.

Oh, the sliced bark was phenominal...still had some crunchy chewy goodness after the short foiled resting. Pulled was pretty good too, just softened up quite a bit.
Wheew! What a smoke! Get yourselves some dried rbp, apple and cherry. If you can't locate these from a local source and have to go online to order, the shipping will likely be a bit spendy, but it would be worth it just for the experience of something like we just had here with this smoke. If you like, PM me, and I'll help you find a source. I don't have a dehydrator, so I buy all three of them ready to hit the grinder.

Good eats and great smokes, everyone!

Eric


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## SmokinAl (Apr 25, 2011)

OK Eric that settles it. The next butt I do I'm going to brine it & slice it. Two things I have never done before.


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## nwdave (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh great, now I'm 3 or 4 Wyoming smokes behind. 

For our lovely NorthWest weather, I've found that vac sealing in jars (since I have that capability) is the best trick for me.  Bell Peppers, Apples, whatever.  Eric started out with Apple Chips.  For whatever reason, I couldn't find any.  Made my own by super dehydrating some apples from last year, Fuji's in this attempt.  There's still some clumping after being fine ground, but it's not a real problem, just hit it with another quick grind and we're in business.  Still trying to come up with an easier way to do cherries, especially since we can go to eastern Washington and buy them by the case from the growers.  Gotta be a way......

Eric, running out of projects??????......  Not in this lifetime pal.


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 25, 2011)

SmokinAl said:


> OK Eric that settles it. The next butt I do I'm going to brine it & slice it. Two things I have never done before.


I think you'll enjoy the sliced butt. I took mine to a pretty high temp of 181* for two reasons: easy bone removal, and a really tender slice. If you went to a much lower temp, then you'll be boning it out to slice have a much firmer slice with a few chewier spots. That's the thing with shoulder cuts though...a bit of compromise for good eating...nice to experience it though, IMO. If you've got a highly spiced brine, you will notice it in the pork as long (as it's not already enhanced).
 

Have fun, Al!
 


NWDave said:


> Oh great, now I'm 3 or 4 Wyoming smokes behind.
> 
> For our lovely NorthWest weather, I've found that vac sealing in jars (since I have that capability) is the best trick for me.  Bell Peppers, Apples, whatever.  Eric started out with Apple Chips.  For whatever reason, I couldn't find any.  Made my own by super dehydrating some apples from last year, Fuji's in this attempt.  There's still some clumping after being fine ground, but it's not a real problem, just hit it with another quick grind and we're in business.  Still trying to come up with an easier way to do cherries, especially since we can go to eastern Washington and buy them by the case from the growers.  Gotta be a way......
> 
> Eric, running out of projects??????......  Not in this lifetime pal.


Yea, Dave, I keep thinking I'll slow down one of these days. But it seems that I find myself looking into situations like what happened with these two butts, just trying to see all the angles and looking for possible ways to keep everything on the straight and narrow. Next thing I know, I have this brine recipe taking shape, so I can't just let it float away without trying it, of course. Well, now, I have this brine going with two butts, and the flavor profile doesn't quite seem to fit any dry rubs in my arsenal, so it's time to get really crazy, now. It's funny how it snow-balled into what turned out to be a great smoke before it was all over.

Good grief, you know, me running out of projects? That does sound rather unlikely, doesn't it? You see into this as good as me or anybody else would. I don't have to look for challenges or new ideas...they always seem to find me. I guess that's part of why I don't have alot of redo's, and tend to hit the uncharted territory (for me), so to speak. I guess if I see the opportunity and am willing to step forward, then the rest becomes history. That may seem like a strange analogy, but I really am not looking for new ideas lately...used to be I had to search a little...not anymore. It just happens.

I'd actually like to have some slow-down time to just chill out...take tonight, for example: I'm char-grilling 6 petite sirloin and 3 t-bone steaks...I decided early on that I would not marinate them, after the initial thought of doing it. That would likely mean another recipe, and of course that means another thread here on the forums. Not to say I don't like to share...I do, that's obvious. I think I'm probably just in need of a break...slow-down before the flame burns itself out.

Hang in there, Dave. Don't sweat the lagging on smokes...heck, I don't know how I do so many myself. Like you asked me a couple times already: you work a full-time job? Yep...

Eric


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## Bearcarver (Apr 26, 2011)

forluvofsmoke said:


> Good grief, you know, me running out of projects? That does sound rather unlikely, doesn't it? You see into this as good as me or anybody else would. I don't have to look for challenges or new ideas...they always seem to find me. I guess that's part of why I don't have alot of redo's, and tend to hit the uncharted territory (for me), so to speak. I guess if I see the opportunity and am willing to step forward, then the rest becomes history. That may seem like a strange analogy, but I really am not looking for new ideas lately...used to be I had to search a little...not anymore. It just happens.
> 
> Eric


Eric,
Other than finding new challenges, I would think it would also be a challenge for you to repeat some of your past smokes with the same perfection you did before, so I don't think you have to worry about being bored in the field of creativity.

Bear


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## sqwib (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm with Al.

Eric awesome post and thanks for the inspiration.


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## forluvofsmoke (Apr 27, 2011)

SQWIB said:


> I'm with Al.
> 
> Eric awesome post and thanks for the inspiration.


Thanks, and you're welcome!
 




Bearcarver said:


> Eric,
> Other than finding new challenges, I would think it would also be a challenge for you to repeat some of your past smokes with the same perfection you did before, so I don't think you have to worry about being bored in the field of creativity.
> 
> Bear


That is a good point, Bear. It does take some effort to do some of the smokes I've done, then, many others just come so easy to me. I'm a tinkerer by nature, so anything I haven't done before really attracts my interest, and I find it easy to focus my energy on those things, as well.

I do have my next pair of butts almost thawed out in the fridge, so I'll probably be mixing up another brine the same as the above after work in about 2-3 more days. That would give 'em about 6 days in the brine, which would be more than enough to get the results I'm shooting for...I think I'll slice one and pull the other just like this first batch, too. Man, that sliced butt was wicked-good eating!

Eric


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## hardslicer (Jul 9, 2011)

awesome.......simply awesome....thank you for spreading your experience......I certainly enjoyed it and learned somethings.....congrats!


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## meateater (Jul 10, 2011)

Looks great Eric.


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## seanf (Dec 18, 2011)

so my wife comes home from the farmer's market yesterday with a fresh 17.5-lb. shoulder.  what to do, what to do...I did a search, found this thread, dropped it in the brine last night (double batch), left it on the deck overnight, scored the skin and put the dry rub on this morning, and dropped it on the Big Green Egg.  Kept it about 250 degrees all day...9.5 hours later, I've got internal temp of 180...omg.  like butter.  The bones pulled out with no persuasion.  The kids were eating the skin off the bottom like it was candy.  I pulled it apart into several big sections (literally, I stood it up on end and it fell open), sending about half of it home with my stepson, keeping the rest for lunch this week.

it was a good day  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	









thanks for the recipe, man.


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## mountainhawg (Jan 5, 2013)

Using the brine and rub as my first used from the site. The only things different is I left the cap on and will inject around and under that plus used a bit of apple juice. I'm so use to cooking with the cap, (in fact cap on top which I won't do anymore) I just hated to cut it off. Another thing is I'm using a Kingsford grill vice a good smoker and my grate will get quite hot so the cap will be protection from searing.


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## tdssmoke (Jul 31, 2013)

Hello,

Where do you put the five gallon bucket while it's brining? Do you have an extra refrigerator? Do you know another way?

Thanks


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## forluvofsmoke (Jul 31, 2013)

tdssmoke said:


> Hello,
> 
> Where do you put the five gallon bucket while it's brining? Do you have an extra refrigerator? Do you know another way?
> 
> Thanks


Hey, fellow smoker,

I do have a small fridge for projects like this (4.2 cu ft), but if fridge space is an issue, you might consider putting it into a larger cooler and ice it down...I think one of those wheeled cube coolers would be just about the right height to fit the bucket and still hold 10-20lbs of ice.

Eric


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## blat (Sep 23, 2013)

just prowling around and came up with a  question  after reading this thread and also had a problem  wanted to see if ever happened to anyone else.

 firstly on this thread noticed 4los  wraps his sensor wires  in aluminum foil,  obviously expecting to get more accurate readings.   Do most of you guys do this?  unnecessary in your opinions?

 now this is a little  embarrassing, so I  had a spog rub  mixed up  and needed a  shaker to apply  the rub.   in the back of the cabinet I  found about 1/2 of bottle  of Willinghams  hot and dumped it in  and mixed it with my spog.  well the salt pepper onion and garlic  being large  grain  and the Willingham s  being a  small grain caused a  problem when I applied  the rub the smaller granules  had a  tendency to stick to the meat better.
It  was fine for me,  in fact thought was one of the best I  ever made,  my wife could not eat it,  way to hot for her.   Anyway,  in future guess if I  am going to mix up a rub m ay  need  to run it though the  spice grinder  first.


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## forluvofsmoke (Sep 23, 2013)

blat said:


> just prowling around and came up with a question after reading this thread and also had a problem wanted to see if ever happened to anyone else.
> 
> firstly on this thread noticed 4los wraps his sensor wires in aluminum foil, obviously expecting to get more accurate readings. Do most of you guys do this? unnecessary in your opinions?
> 
> ...


I foil-wrap my probe leads for additional protection against heat (shiny-side out), and to keep them clean from drippings...don't think it would effect accuracy at all, being it's a low voltage signal...unless you had some type of higher powered RF transmitter close-by like a HAM radio, then, the foil would help to shield the sensor lead from RF signals and reduce erroneous readings.

Smaller particles in a dry rub blend will generally stick to meat easier. If you pat the rub onto the meat sometimes helps the larger particles stick better. Some use mustard or cooking oil to pre-treat the meat before rub application...I rarely do that, just occasionally using olive oil or canola oil for skin-on yard birds...helps a little for browning and crisping the skin, as well.

I keep empty 1lb spice containers for dry rubs I blend, or take it straight from the mix container by hand...no messing up my recipe that way...and I mix smaller batches so I have less leftover in storage...I'm using a fresh blend most of the time.

Eric


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## smokinvegasbaby (Sep 23, 2013)

forluvofsmoke said:


> 25.5 hours and we're into the foil at last...
> 
> I preheated a large bath towel in the oven on a pan @ 170* while the butt was creeping over 199* (therm reads decimals), double foiled, wrapped it nice a snug and tossed in the "O" and turned it off. Should be good for at leat 6 hours, so we'll both take a nap now, as it's creeping up on 1:00 am now.
> 
> ...


Eric,

oh my word that pork looks amazing.....email a piece of the bark would ya!  to me that is the BEST part of the pulled pork.  I just smoked a pork loin with cherry wood and I agree with you cherry wood is my NEW favorite.  The flavor it imparts to the meat is amazing.  Again your pork looks amazing - I think we all should have "scratch-sniff-and taste" on our computers lol....Keep on Smoking!

Josie aka SmokinVegasBaby


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## forluvofsmoke (Sep 23, 2013)

SmokinVegasBaby said:


> Eric,
> 
> oh my word that pork looks amazing.....email a piece of the bark would ya!  to me that is the BEST part of the pulled pork.  I just smoked a pork loin with cherry wood and I agree with you cherry wood is my NEW favorite.  The flavor it imparts to the meat is amazing.  Again your pork looks amazing - I think we all should have "scratch-sniff-and taste" on our computers lol....Keep on Smoking!
> 
> Josie aka SmokinVegasBaby


Ha-ha-ha!!! Thank you. Oh, I do enjoy my bark!!! This is an older thread, and I have learned a few things about creating and preserving bark since then...if you want to find out what I do differently now, here's some info you may find rather useful...not just about bark, but a whole new outlook on hot-smoking meats while retaining more natural moisture, achieving great bark and preserving it's crisp texture while resting, with tips on softening the bark (if you desire)...from butts and picnics, to ribs, brisket and more...it's been my main method for smoking for the past 18 months:

Wet-to-Dry No-Foil Smoke Chamber Method for Smoking Meats - SmokingMeatForums.com Community

Eric


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## blat (Sep 24, 2013)

thanks 4los, 

 also stole your wet  dry approach to this smoke  and turned out great.


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## charswifterie (Aug 8, 2016)

Wow. Very nice.

How long did you brine this?

With no pink salt, does this cause it to penetrate less?

Your photography skills make this into food porn! hehe

John


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## forluvofsmoke (Aug 8, 2016)

Charswifterie said:


> Wow. Very nice.
> 
> How long did you brine this?
> 
> ...


Thanks, John! I had to browse back over this one a bit, but it seems like this batch was only soaking for a little over 2 days...maybe 3...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






...I might have slept too many times since way back then. The next batch I soaked for a lot longer...seems like 8 or 10 days...with even better end results.

Here it is: BRINED BUTTS REVISITED

As for not using a cure additive while brining, that has no effect on penetration of the brine solution. If you brine-cure, you use a cure additive along with salt...without salt the cure won't penetrate into the meat. Without cure additive you are only brining, not curing. The salt concentration is what determines the penetration rate of the brine into the meat. Too much salt yields salty meat, but also penetrates faster. I also suspect that too much salt will at some point reduce the actual suspension of soluble spices/herbs in the brine due to total saturation in the solution, but that would be an extreme case of both high salt and attempted high spice flavoring.

The transfer of brine into the meat occurs via osmosis. The lower salt content of the meat draws the salt solution inside until the salt content of the brine and the meat are the same, if given enough time. This is a simple process of equalization. During the transmitting of brine or brine-cure solution into the meat it will also carry the flavors of what you added to the solution...that's one reason why I (and many others) brine...to enhance the interior flavor of the meat without injecting. You can do a combination of injecting and soaking, or just injecting, but then you've taken a intact whole muscle and punctured it, creating a need for more strict cooking guidelines. For more info on that, please see the heading in FOOD SAFETY.

Thanks, yeah, I enjoy showing the results of my efforts...we like our Q-Views here...some say "no pics, didn't happen"...LOL!!! I don't have that old camera anymore (it pretty much died about a year ago...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...cost to repair would have been 3x what a new camera costs. I'm still learning my new one, but we're getting along pretty well. I just forget how to use it if I don't practice often enough...lots of settings on this one, including for food pics.

I will say this: between the first and second rounds, the second had better results in brine penetration...it was pretty much all the way through to the core of the pork...no denying the flavor.

I would not recommend brining this long with a bone-less butt or picnic shoulder (a couple days, tops), as that could change everything (as explained in a round-about way in the Food Safety Forum). Well, better said, I have no experience with brining a boneless shoulder cut and haven't researched it, so I can't really say how long and what salt concentration would be considered safe. Bone-in pork butt or picnic shoulder and you're good for the duration...they cryovac pack bone-in pork shoulders in a solution which keeps under refrigeration for weeks.

Oh, I only mentioned picnic shoulders because they have become my favorite for pulled pork...given the choice, I always choose picnics over butts...more collagen (melts away and lubricates the meat fibers), a bit more bone, but hey, the textures and flavors are, IMHO, much better than the butt. The whole package of the picnic seems more forgiving to higher finished temperatures...less chance of them having a grainy, mealy mouth feel. I haven't smoked a butt for PP for probably a few years now...I'd do a picnic in a heart-beat. Uh, don't tell anyone...picnics will get hard to find if everyone hears what I just told you...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Eric


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## charswifterie (Aug 8, 2016)

Right on, Eric!

Funny you should point out the difference between bone-in and boneless. Just today I spent a not-so fun hour removing the scapula from a thawing pork butt, splitting it into two hunks. One got a modified salt pork dry cure, while the other is in a heavily modified corned beef brine. Initial stages of research... Will be rather interesting. I was going to let them both sit a long time in there, but it sounds like I need to check some guidelines. With my hillbilly setup, I cold smoke several hours, then finish in a moist (covered roasting pan with a half inch of water) oven at 300˚ till it hits the right temp inside.

Your approach is clearly thorough and covers all the bases. Thank you for replying to my comment!!

John Swift


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## forluvofsmoke (Aug 8, 2016)

Hey, John, depending on how you removed the bone and separated into 2 pieces, there may not be any food safety issues. If there is not a deep incision that has meat/fat folded over it, then the brine-cure can get to it easily. If it's a dry-cure, just be sure to work it into every little nook and cranny that you find (not the best circumstances to be doing a dry cure, but with a more cautious approach, doable. It's when a bone is removed and the meat covers that cavity you created from bone removal that you should be concerned...brine may not get there without propping that cavity open. If it's basically a wide-open cut, that would be very similar to, for example, a beef brisket, or whole/half pork loin...it's boneless, but the bone removal does not leave a cavity or void which is then closed back up...because the bone was on the outer portion of the cut of meat and the meat is still intact whole muscle as a result.

Hope that clears your mind a bit...I know I strongly dislike having that nasty feeling deep down...something telling you that you might have taken a wrong path and need to back-track and possibly take extra precautions to make sure it all works out OK in the end.

Eric


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