# Help with cold smoked salmon.



## CFLJOHN512 (Jan 18, 2021)

I’ve got the cold smoke figured out finally with these cold nights in FL now.    I really want to do some salmon.   From what I can gather it seems like the majority do a 4/1 ratio of brown sugar to salt.  12 hours in the fridge, rinse, fan dry for 3-4 hours then smoke it.   I’d like to do some filets, along with some of the killer nuggets I’ve seen posted.   Is it the same method for both?   Is there a certain amount of time they go in the smoke?    I’m guessing the nuggets require less time.  
I’d love to make it like the smoked salmon I used to get on the gold foil years ago.    It’s killer on a cracker with some fresh lemon.   Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.   

John


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## thirdeye (Jan 18, 2021)

Cold smoked salmon is often referred to as Nova lox (lox is not smoked), and then there is hot smoked salmon which can be kept as moist as you prefer, within reason.  Some methods are only salt, sugar and aromatics, others will use a curing agent for food safety reasons.   Nova lox is on the left, hot smoked on the right.  Does either resemble what you are looking to smoke?


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## CFLJOHN512 (Jan 18, 2021)

thirdeye said:


> Cold smoked salmon is often referred to as Nova lox (lox is not smoked), and then there is hot smoked salmon which can be kept as moist as you prefer, within reason.  Some methods are only salt, sugar and aromatics, others will use a curing agent for food safety reasons.   Nova lox is on the left, hot smoked on the right.  Does either resemble what you are looking to smoke?
> View attachment 480956



Something like this. It needed no refrigeration and was good for a year or two if left sealed.


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## SmokinEdge (Jan 18, 2021)

CFLJOHN512 said:


> Something like this. It needed no refrigeration and was good for a year or two if left sealed.


The texture suggests a hot smoke.


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## thirdeye (Jan 18, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> The texture suggests a hot smoke.



I would agree with that.



CFLJOHN512 said:


> Something like this. It needed no refrigeration and was good for a year or two if left sealed.



Maybe some sort of commercial product is packaged so it doesn't need refrigeration and has a long shelf life, I'm not familiar with doing that at home.  Here are a couple examples of home smoked 'hot smoked salmon' with a 6 or 8 hour cure time and a 4 to 6 hour smoke time that looks similar to your photo..., but it needs to be refrigerated for it's week or two shelf life.  It does freeze very well.   Sorry, I'm not that much help..


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## atomicsmoke (Jan 18, 2021)

CFLJOHN512 said:


> Something like this. It needed no refrigeration and was good for a year or two if left sealed.


What you got there is retort pouch fish. That's commercial processing. You can't safely do that at home. 

Follow a veefiied recipe from here for hot smoking and you'll get better results than retort pouch fish. Keeps well in frdge if sealed . Not shelf stable but freezes well.


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## cmayna (Jan 19, 2021)

CFJOHN512
From us home smokers point of view, what you describe and show is a hot smoke.  Keep in mind that when it comes to fish, hot smoke is running low temps.  My Salmon is typically started out at 125 and ending at 140+.   When doing nuggets, the brine and cooking times are far less than when doing large pieces such as filets or tails or etc.  It's all based on size.

I do cold smoked salmon, which I call cold smoked Lox.  Lots of crazy dry and wet  brining times.  Smoked with no heat during cooler days.


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## CFLJOHN512 (Jan 19, 2021)

thirdeye said:


> I would agree with that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This looks like what I’m wanting to make.  
So do I just skin it, 4/1 dry brine for 12 hours, rinse, let it form a pelicle in the fridge overnight, then smoke from 115-140 till I get the desired consistency?


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## thirdeye (Jan 19, 2021)

CFLJOHN512 said:


> This looks like what I’m wanting to make.
> So do I just skin it, 4/1 dry brine for 12 hours, rinse, let it form a pelicle in the fridge overnight, then smoke from 115-140 till I get the desired consistency?


Well, kind of sort of.   I keep the skin on so the fillet stays moister.   Fish dry cure recipes are not all the same, and for some people the seasonings are a variable to suit their tastes.  Same with 'cure time' some go a few hours and some will go 10 or 12 hours.  My method is in bits and pieces around this site but HERE is the full article on my cookin' site.  It has the dry brine recipe, suggestions for times, photos of all the steps and tips on smoking.  * Give it a read and feel free to ask questions.* I've been using this for about 20 years and have made some subtle changes.  It's really quite easy to make.  I keep some of the cure in the freezer so it's ready to go... here is a tail and belly slice of salmon I smoked two days ago.  I cured the thin strip for 4 hours, and the tail section for 7 hours.  After the rinse I seasoned these with cracked pepper and garlic powder, but that is an option too.  My smoke time was 4 hours, and it was only 125°, so I put it into a 180° oven for 15 minutes until it got to 140°.





And if you find salmon on sale and want to make a bunch.... it freezes well.  I pre-freeze the smoked pieces until they are mostly firm, THEN vacuum seal. This gives a better seal around the fillet and won't smash them.





Curing my local caught trout is slightly different because of the thickness, 10 hours of dry brine would make it pretty salty.   But with a short cure time I get similar results to steelhead or salmon.


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## CFLJOHN512 (Jan 19, 2021)

Looks amazing Third.   I’ll be reading up on this when I get off work.   I appreciate your help!


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## PulledPorkSandwich (Jan 19, 2021)

thirdeye said:


> Well, kind of sort of.   I keep the skin on so the fillet stays moister.   Fish dry cure recipes are not all the same, and for some people the seasonings are a variable to suit their tastes.  Same with 'cure time' some go a few hours and some will go 10 or 12 hours.  My method is in bits and pieces around this site but HERE is the full article on my cookin' site.  It has the dry brine recipe, suggestions for times, photos of all the steps and tips on smoking.  * Give it a read and feel free to ask questions.* I've been using this for about 20 years and have made some subtle changes.  It's really quite easy to make.  I keep some of the cure in the freezer so it's ready to go... here is a tail and belly slice of salmon I smoked two days ago.  I cured the thin strip for 4 hours, and the tail section for 7 hours.  After the rinse I seasoned these with cracked pepper and garlic powder, but that is an option too.  My smoke time was 4 hours, and it was only 125°, so I put it into a 180° oven for 15 minutes until it got to 140°.
> View attachment 481099
> 
> And if you find salmon on sale and want to make a bunch.... it freezes well.  I pre-freeze the smoked pieces until they are mostly firm, THEN vacuum seal. This gives a better seal around the fillet and won't smash them.
> ...



I've been to thirdeye's site for salmon.  Highly recommended!  I've done two smokes, each with large fillets of atlantic salmon, and results were excellent!


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## thirdeye (Jan 19, 2021)

PulledPorkSandwich said:


> I've been to thirdeye's site for salmon.  Highly recommended!  I've done two smokes, each with large fillets of atlantic salmon, and results were excellent!


Thanks for the kind words, and I hope you agree that even though my article is pretty long winded.... the technique is very easy and takes no time at all to prep a couple of fillets one day, and be smoking the fillets in about 24 to 30 hours.


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## PulledPorkSandwich (Jan 19, 2021)

thirdeye said:


> Thanks for the kind words, and I hope you agree that even though my article is pretty long winded.... the technique is very easy and takes no time at all to prep a couple of fillets one day, and be smoking the fillets in about 24 to 30 hours.


I would say your article is _thorough_, not long-winded. 

I found it really easy to follow and, as I said, the results were excellent.  I've wanted to ask:  Is there any preservative quality to the cure, or is it entirely a flavor thing?


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## thirdeye (Jan 20, 2021)

PulledPorkSandwich said:


> I would say your article is _thorough_, not long-winded.
> 
> I found it really easy to follow and, as I said, the results were excellent.  I've wanted to ask:  Is there any preservative quality to the cure, or is it entirely a flavor thing?


 Hehehee, okay.  It's funny but after I published it I got a lot of emails with questions.  So once a week I would edit the article, or add another photo.  Pretty soon the article was quite long.... but the emails really slowed down. 

The dry cure is mostly for flavor and texture. The only preservative factor would be the curing action of the salt, (you can see a notable change in color and texture).... the time in the hot smoke and the slight amount of drying.  I would think it easily has a week of shelf life in the fridge.  You can always add the 0.25% of Cure #1, but it's really hard to blend it into a pre-mixed bag of the dry cure mixture unless you let it dry out a little.   It would be better to plan in advance and add Cure #1 to the Kosher salt and blended it really well,  then incorporate into the brown sugar and other spices.  I did get feedback from a couple of readers telling me they did a wet curing brine (just water and Cure #1), then rinsed, dried and applied my dry cure mixture.  This sounded to me like it would make the application of the Cure #1 easier, but I've never played around with it.


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## GonnaSmoke (Jan 28, 2021)

I have some silver salmon fillets in the freezer and have been wanting to smoke some, just haven't got any experience with it yet. A question about the fillets. Do you remove all of the pin bones before smoking or do they get soft enough to eat during the smoking process?


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## thirdeye (Jan 28, 2021)

I remove them because neither cold smoking or or hot smoking (or baking, grilling or frying) will soften them up.  I even remove them before pressure canning which does soften them.  Just run your finger from head to tail on the fillet....  and the pin bones will stand right up.  If you tear the meat, change the angle you are pulling from, and put your finger on the fillet to help hold the flesh in place.


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## GonnaSmoke (Jan 28, 2021)

thirdeye said:


> I remove them because neither cold smoking or or hot smoking (or baking, grilling or frying) will soften them up.  I even remove them before pressure canning which does soften them.  Just run your finger from head to tail on the fillet....  and the pin bones will stand right up.  If you tear the meat, change the angle you are pulling from, and put your finger on the fillet to help hold the flesh in place.
> View attachment 482137


Thanks, kind of what I figured, but needed to ask.


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## cmayna (Jan 28, 2021)

Wife and I remove all bones during processing day (day after catching the fish).  A lot of work but better to do it now before the excess fresh fish goes into the freezer.......at least for us, it is.


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## thirdeye (Jan 28, 2021)

cmayna said:


> Wife and I remove all bones during processing day (day after catching the fish).  A lot of work but better to do it now before the excess fresh fish goes into the freezer.......at least for us, it is.


The day after catching, (or as soon rigor goes away) is the best time to remove the pin bones, the flesh seems more relaxed. Trout have about the same number of pin bones as salmon, but they can be very small.  I've always thought that when some people say they don't like trout, they really mean they don't like finding pin bones.


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## GonnaSmoke (Jan 28, 2021)

cmayna said:


> Wife and I remove all bones during processing day (day after catching the fish).  A lot of work but better to do it now before the excess fresh fish goes into the freezer.......at least for us, it is.


The fish that I have in my freezer are from a fishing trip to Alaska. The fish were filleted, vacuum sealed, and frozen for me so no chance to remove the pin bones ahead of time.

I just want to figure out this smoking process as an alternative to grilling, sautéing, fish cakes, etc.

This was everyday for 5 straight days....


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## thirdeye (Jan 28, 2021)

Skin still on?  That's a plus sometimes.


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## GonnaSmoke (Jan 28, 2021)

thirdeye said:


> Skin still on?  That's a plus sometimes.


Yes, skin still on. I've read a lot on here about smoking it, including your tutorial, and that seems to be a plus.


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## ahakohda (Mar 29, 2021)

Skin is helping when you cutting your cold smoked fish. Helps to handle hot smoked.

When I do cold smoked salmon I simple cure it as gravlox minus dill. When its ready and formed pelicle I apply alder smoke with no heat to desirable level. Usually not too much. Just a hint of smoke. You need colder temperatures for that process. Using dust instead of pellets also helps.

As of hot smoked salmon the golden rule is not to have white stuff leaking out. If its leaking out your temps were too high.
Start with 120F for 2 hours, Go up to 135F for another two hours anf finish with 175F for one hour


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## SmokinAl (Mar 29, 2021)

Well I get my salmon from Sam’s or I like to get sushi grade from WildForkFoods. When you say cold smoked salmon, to me that means lox. Here is a lox recipe that I have followed for years with great success. Many of the guys on here use it too.





						HOMEMADE LOX WITH RECIPE & STEPS, PLENTY OF Q-VIEW
					

I have made lox following bbally's instructions several times over the last year or so. I grew up on lox & cream cheese with a slice of onion on a good bagel. This was a weekly event at our house. Over the years I have tried lox many times & I can honestly say I have never had lox as good as...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				



Al


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## ahakohda (Mar 29, 2021)

I gotta tell you that adding ice to a smoker can be counter productive and ruin your smoking process.
Moisture from ice inside warm smoker will condensate and cover you salmon with droplets. I don't need to explain you the outcome of smoke on top of moist fish.....Ask me how I know......

Best way is to do it when its not hot outside, and with little bit of pellets or even better with dust.


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## thirdeye (Mar 29, 2021)

ahakohda said:


> I gotta tell you that adding ice to a smoker can be counter productive and ruin your smoking process.
> Moisture from ice inside warm smoker will condensate and cover you salmon with droplets. I don't need to explain you the outcome of smoke on top of moist fish.....Ask me how I know......
> 
> Best way is to do it when its not hot outside, and with little bit of pellets or even better with dust.


I think "can be counter productive" is the key phrase here.  When you add ice to a smoker to cool down the smoke.... you have to maximize the airflow, for example blocking the door or lid open, AND reduce the amount of smoke, and these two things help to eliminate condensation.   Before sawdust smoke generators, I used a tray of ice when smoking butter and cheese, and with good ventilation I never had an issue with condensation.  That said, I live at 5400' elevation in the Rockies and our relative humidity is very low.  My statements could literally be all wet if I lived at sea level.


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