# Help Identify BBQ Sauce Type - Harold's BBQ



## Preacher Man (Nov 14, 2018)

This might be a complete shot in the dark. But I feel like if I'm going to find out the answer to this question, this is place to get it.

Maybe some of you at some point in your life had the privilege to venture through Abilene, TX and eat at Harold's BBQ. I went to college there, and I thoroughly enjoyed every bite of Q that ever entered my mouth there. Sadly, Harold had a stroke and refused to pass down his secrets. He died a few years back, and took his secrets with him. 

His BBQ sauce was like no other sauce I've ever tasted. It wasn't vinegar based, but it wasn't thick and sweet either. He would dip the buns in it before throwing on some chopped brisket for his Q-Sandwich and the buns wouldn't get soggy by doing it ("drown-ded" he called it). The best I can remember, it had a strong taste of chili powder in it. Here's a picture of what it looks like in the bottle. 







The closest I've seen to what it looks like is Franklin's espresso sauce. I remember Harold's having that somewhat grainy texture to it. However, it looks way thicker than Harold's, and Harold's didn't have any taste of coffee whatsoever (at least that I remember).






Does anybody out there know what kind of sauce Harold was making? Or maybe even know how to make something like it? Or have any advice they can give me at all? I'll take anything!


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## SonnyE (Nov 14, 2018)

Sorry, never heard of it.
Does the bottle have the ingredients on it?

The thought here is to reverse engineer it.


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## Preacher Man (Nov 14, 2018)

SonnyE said:


> Does the bottle have the ingredients on it?


Unfortunately, it never did.



SonnyE said:


> The thought here is to reverse engineer it.


I wish I could, but I don't even know if a bottle of it exists out there anymore :(. It's been 7 years since he let the fires go out, and 2 years since he died.


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## KrisUpInSmoke (Nov 14, 2018)

For the grainy texture, was it peppery tasting? Maybe large grind pepper. Also, how about considering whole grain mustard? 

The graininess could be a result of the cooking process. The spices might not have broken down or might have been added closer to the end of the cooking, if it was cooked at all. Or, maybe there was a large amount of spices, too much to dissolve into a lesser amount of liquid.


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## SonnyE (Nov 15, 2018)

OK then, there is only one thing to do: Develop your own Signature Bar-B-Que Sauce. ;)
I did that over several years and at the cost of many piggies donating their ribs (and lives) to the final outcome.

I decided to take the things I loved to taste on my BBQ Baby Back Ribs, and combine them so I could simply shake them onto the ribs. Worked great, and after some minor adjustments, I had a winning rub. I named it Sonny's Secret Seasonings.
But we wanted more... So the rub got incorporated into my sauce.
Which is a base of Sweet Baby Ray's (1 bottle) and my rub ingredients mixed in, then re-bottle the sauce back in the original bottle. That is ready for use right away, but I like to let it set for at least an hour or more to let the granulated garlic and other seasonings marry in the bottle. 
But those things like the granulated garlic give up their flavor, yet add a texture that just blooms in the mouth.

So God Bless Harold for his leaving such a strong memory to be remembered by.
But take heart, you got to love it and have that goal to work towards.
But I bet you a dollar to a donut, you will develop your very own fantastic taste folks will grow to love.

I do feel I should warn you though...
I've become infamous for my ribs in the family. When I got my new MES 30 smoker, I naturally wanted to add some smoky goodness to my rib-fests.
I got told in no uncertain terms: "Do NOT fool with the rib recipe!"
So Preacher Man, develop your own rub and sauce, but watch out for the pitfalls of doing so.
You might find your hands tied, and your only time to experiment is between feeds.

I, and my taste-tester buddy in my Avatar, love 3, 2, 1 Ribs from the MES. But Mama has to be out of town for me to be able to do a rack that way.
She's booked to go visit the cousin and new baby girl, and Families in Hawaii in early December for a week. And Grandpa's got 3 racks in the freezer... :rolleyes:o_O
There is an outline of my rub/sauce seasoning in the above link if you'd like to mix up a taste batch. I generally work out to a 1 to 1 ratio of each. (1 TBS, for example.) I did sneak some cyan in. But I got told it was too hot.
But about 1 tsp works well. Or none is fine, too.
For test batches, 1/4 tsp measuring's would work fine. Unlike Harold, I'm glad to share and help if I can. ;)


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## zwiller (Nov 15, 2018)

If this is one of the "thin style" sauces I think they are using drippings from the smoker as a base.  Can't help much more than that.  A few TX guys here swear by Rudy's and it's available online.  I am big believer that good BBQ don't need sauce.


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## indaswamp (Nov 15, 2018)

I can't help out on a recipe, but I can point you in the right direction for consistency...use carrot fiber. It will tighten up a sauce like what you describe....

Also, if you can get a photo of the ingredients list off the bottle, it might help.


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## indaswamp (Nov 15, 2018)

zwiller said:


> I am big believer that good BBQ don't need sauce.



X2!


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## indaswamp (Nov 15, 2018)

Meat + spices + TBS = heaven!


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## SonnyE (Nov 15, 2018)

I'd try yours. Would you be open minded enough to try mine?


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## Preacher Man (Nov 15, 2018)

zwiller said:


> I am big believer that good BBQ don't need sauce.





indaswamp said:


> X2!


x3! But I sleep in the same bed with someone who really really likes sauce.


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## indaswamp (Nov 15, 2018)

LOL!! Understood!!


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## zwiller (Nov 15, 2018)

Not saying sauce is bad thing per se, but my point is it don't make up for poorly smoked meat.  You have Franklin's book?  Must own to me.  His espresso sauce is interesting.  The recipe is like beef jerky marinade.  Also includes drippings...


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## SonnyE (Nov 15, 2018)

zwiller said:


> Not saying sauce is bad thing per se, but my point is it don't make up for poorly smoked meat.  You have Franklin's book?  Must own to me.  His espresso sauce is interesting.  The recipe is like beef jerky marinade.  Also includes drippings...



Um, no, don't have the book.
I have Smoking Meat Forums. Ain't no book as good as this. Nowhere.
Agreed, Sometimes Bad is Bad...

Burned popcorn is BURNED, and nothing will make it taste good.
So Butter, Sauce, or Parmesan cheese, will never recover it.
If it's poop, call it poop. But I still like what Dad called Chit on a Shingle.
My point was if you can't find it, build it.
Because, after-all, this was about Sauce. ;)

I don't like adding sauce in the way most do. A1 has been tasted, but never graced my plate.
I want my stuff cooked on. Maybe that fine point was missed? ;)
Harold's Sauce was a dressing on the bun. Added taste, like Mayonnaise, Mustard, or Relish can.
It would be my hope Preacher Man can find a way to get back to that fine taste he loved.
But the only way I see, is since Harold chose to take it with him, is to build anew.

Preacher Man has inspired me. I have a package of my Pulled Pork in the fridge. I like as it is.
But I'd like to open some, try spreading some of my own sauce on a Kaiser roll, and sink my teeth in it.
If it doesn't taste good, it's ok, I'll choke it down, then not do it again.
But not likely that'll happen.

I'd like to see Preacher Man build the taste he loved, than bring it to the fold to share.
And that is _*the taste*_ of Smoking Meat Forums. ;)
I'll encourage, I'll help, Please join me! :)


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## Preacher Man (Nov 15, 2018)

zwiller said:


> If this is one of the "thin style" sauces I think they are using drippings from the smoker as a base.


It was definitely of the thinner style. He always had it over to the side in a crock pot so that you could ladle as much as you wanted all over your plate, and most people put it in a ramekin because it ran so thin.

You might be on to something with these smoker drippings...


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## BCal (Aug 10, 2019)

Preacher Man said:


> It was definitely of the thinner style. He always had it over to the side in a crock pot so that you could ladle as much as you wanted all over your plate, and most people put it in a ramekin because it ran so thin.
> 
> You might be on to something with these smoker drippings...



Harold told me a bit about the sauce a couple times. He was a great friend! I do not know the full receipe, but I do know there were meat drippings. He also told me the what really made the flavor is that he added bourbon to the sauce. Judging by the taste there was some sort of sweetener in there as well. 

I hope this helps a little! I miss that guy!


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## 2008RN (Aug 11, 2019)

opps


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## oldeskooldave (Apr 11, 2020)

I too have been unable to find anything like this sauce in the years since Harold's passing. I hear what you are all saying in regards to good BBQ not needing sauce, but this sauce is unlike any other. And, I used it primarily on the hot water cornbread (hush puppies) anyway.

I stumbled across a review of Harold's written by someone with a more refined palette than myself (one of these traveling food critic types) that mentioned molasses. Could be brown sugar I suppose.

That is an interesting tip about the bourbon. 

I always thought it was odd that he had super cheap coffee on the menu since the place was only ever open from 10-2. Wondered if it was just because he used a little in the sauce and figured he might as well sell it.


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## bigred77 (Sep 7, 2020)

I know I'm bumping an old thread, but I miss Harold's too
I not only wish I could have some of that sauce, but I wish I could duplicate that hot relish he made


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## zwiller (Sep 7, 2020)

Looks like his niece has taken over: 

https://www.facebook.com/mommasally16/

Maybe we can find a member near Abilene to run a COOP for it.  I did one for piemento jerk pellets that were $100 bag.  If we find a member that can buy it we do an interest post.  After that we Paypal him for it and shipping etc.  Apparently 2 version are made but the "Damn Hot" is the most popular.  They sell the relish too and I'd be down for that.   I am in for 2 QTS sauce and 1 relish.


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## bigred77 (Sep 7, 2020)

zwiller said:


> Looks like his niece has taken over:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/mommasally16/
> 
> Maybe we can find a member near Abilene to run a COOP for it.  I did one for piemento jerk pellets that were $100 bag.  If we find a member that can buy it we do an interest post.  After that we Paypal him for it and shipping etc.  Apparently 2 version are made but the "Damn Hot" is the most popular.  They sell the relish too and I'd be down for that.   I am in for 2 QTS sauce and 1 relish.




Well. Now I need an excuse to drive rhe 4 hours to Abilene


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## CheapSmoker (Sep 19, 2020)

Looks like she sells the sauce by bottle and case.  We just need some people with refined taste buds to breakdown the flavors. Maybe I can get a bottle im pretty good at replicating dishes, never tried bbq sauce though


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## veronicaalyse (Nov 14, 2020)

His wife is still alive and still makes the sauce. I am picking up 24 bottles tomorrow.


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## zwiller (Nov 14, 2020)

Is this a group buy now?


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## smokestakk (Apr 18, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> This might be a complete shot in the dark. But I feel like if I'm going to find out the answer to this question, this is place to get it.
> 
> Maybe some of you at some point in your life had the privilege to venture through Abilene, TX and eat at Harold's BBQ. I went to college there, and I thoroughly enjoyed every bite of Q that ever entered my mouth there. Sadly, Harold had a stroke and refused to pass down his secrets. He died a few years back, and took his secrets with him.
> 
> ...



Hey Preacher Man!
I joined this forum just to give some information on the hidden legend of Harold's and his famous sauce.

I grew up in Abilene, and Harold's is quite literally a place out of time, and nothing like it will ever exist again.  The building is half underground in one of the poorest areas of town, and far too small to serve the daily line around the corner, but Harold served every customer himself every day.  When the lunch line was served, Harold would come out with trimmings and give them away to whoever he felt needed another serving of this iconic meat.  After that, the most amazing thing would happen.  Harold, a VERY large, barrel chested black man, with the most beautiful DEEP voice, would then treat the entire dining area to old gospel songs with a voice that would genuinely shake you to your core with it's depth and vibration.  He did this every day until his health no longer allowed him to.  Every day the line was out the door, and you never heard one complaint about it.  Snow's BBQ might be the closest experience to Harold's that you can find these days, but it still doesn't do Harold justice to relate it to anyone else's BBQ joint.  It is absolutely worth your time to read all you can find on this historic gem, hidden in the middle of a city almost no one stops in when traveling I-20.

THE SAUCE!

Preacher Man, I hope you have made progress on your journey for Harold's sauce....but if not, I can share a little known secret with you.  I do not have the whole story, rather, I have heard several stories about the origination of a sauce called Abilene BBQ Sauce.  Some say his sons decided to make it/sell the recipe to a company to keep the flavor alive.  The Harold's bottle you posted is of course the original, and cannot be found anymore.  HOWEVER, downtown, in a little knick-knack store, and on some local store shelves you will find Abilene BBQ Sauce......and this sauce is as close to, if not exactly the Harold's recipe....AND the ingredients are listed on the bottle.

Here is a picture of the sauce, and I'm sure it can be purchased online at this point, as it has been around for many years now.  It's not uncommon for friends and family to send this sauce to Abilenians who have moved out of town, state, or even country.  I hope this helps you bring back the flavor that you found at Harold's.  Those of us who had the chance to experience Harold's have something special to hold onto in this world that will never be seen again.  I hope you got to hear him belt out his amazing voice in song when you went.  He was a very special man, who served each customer himself because he thought it was important to do so, and he enjoyed seeing each and every face each and every day.






I have not had a bottle in a few years, so I hope all is right with the sauce as it was when it was released!  Good Luck!  You are a lucky man to have found Harold's.

I did come across a place to buy it, and it does hint at the legendary source of the flavor on the site.


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## smokestakk (Apr 18, 2021)

bigred77 said:


> Well. Now I need an excuse to drive rhe 4 hours to Abilene


Unfortunately the doors were closed not long after the time of this thread, but see my other post in this thread for more info on the sauce living on.


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## zwiller (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks 
S
 smokestakk
.  Gonna try it since the guys at IAH found my bottle of Rudy's...


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## GonnaSmoke (Apr 18, 2021)

Link for those interested in the Abilene sauce....








						Abilene Barbecue Sauce | Texas Star Trading
					

Abilene Barbecue Sauce — This barbecue sauce is worth a try. Conceived by Abilenian Lynn Barnett, this non-tomato based sauce ... Read More >



					texasstartrading.com


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## bigred77 (Apr 18, 2021)

Just ordered two bottles

And a bottle of Joe Allen's steak seasoning


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## bigred77 (Apr 18, 2021)

I've sent this to every one of my ACU buddies who I am still in touch with so far 4 of them have also ordered bottles (one ordered 10)
And 3 more who live in or near Abilene said they are headed there too to get some

That little shop is gunna be surprised when they open their online orders in the morning


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## smokestakk (Apr 19, 2021)

bigred77 said:


> I've sent this to every one of my ACU buddies who I am still in touch with so far 4 of them have also ordered bottles (one ordered 10)
> And 3 more who live in or near Abilene said they are headed there too to get some
> 
> That little shop is gunna be surprised when they open their online orders in the morning


That's awesome!  I'm sure if we keep buying it, they'll keep making it.  The nostalgia runs deep...haha, if you didn't notice already from my post!


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## Preacher Man (Apr 19, 2021)

S
 smokestakk
 out here doing God's work! I can't thank you enough for this. I just ordered 10 bottles this morning. I've actually been in this store several times (pretty much every time I visit back in Texas) and I've never seen anything like this in there.

I don't want to get too excited since the description makes it sound like somebody did what we're all trying to do and this isn't the original Harold's Sauce. Even still, I'ma do my best to start replicating this. The ingredient list is stuff I NEVER would've thought to try. Tamarind? Anchovies? Pomegranate?  What!?

In the past few months I've come across the Kentucky Black Dip and I'm starting to wonder if Harold adapted that to make his own Abilene Dip.


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## Preacher Man (Apr 19, 2021)

CheapSmoker said:


> Looks like she sells the sauce by bottle and case.  We just need some people with refined taste buds to breakdown the flavors. Maybe I can get a bottle im pretty good at replicating dishes, never tried bbq sauce though


Any chance you can get your hands on a few bottles and I can get you to ship me one? I'd compensate you for the cost and your time.



bigred77 said:


> I've sent this to every one of my ACU buddies who I am still in touch with so far 4 of them have also ordered bottles (one ordered 10)
> And 3 more who live in or near Abilene said they are headed there too to get some


I'd be interested to get their feedback on whether or not it's close to what they remember.


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## smokestakk (Apr 19, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> S
> smokestakk
> out here doing God's work! I can't thank you enough for this. I just ordered 10 bottles this morning. I've actually been in this store several times (pretty much every time I visit back in Texas) and I've never seen anything like this in there.
> 
> ...


Unless something has significantly changed about it.....it's the real deal....they just can't call it Harold's.  I think you will be very pleased. 

Yes, the ingredients......how could you ever replicate that without someone tipping you off to some of those ingredients! Same here, never would have guessed about a third of those ingredients. I remember when it first came out, and everyone was giving them away for christmas and just because....it was a little moment where you had someone try it without telling them...then the big reveal....we all just called it Harold's sauce! Hope you enjoy it!

I am headed that way in May.  It may be possible to pick some up for anyone who might be, for whatever reason, unable to order it.  Just let me know, and being the new guy, I'll be happy to send the sauce then receive payment back once the sauce has made it to you.


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## Preacher Man (Apr 22, 2021)

It is time.


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## bigred77 (Apr 22, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> It is time.
> 
> View attachment 493701


I got mine yesterday 
It's good
Really good


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## Preacher Man (Apr 22, 2021)

bigred77 said:


> I got mine yesterday
> It's good
> Really good


Isn't it though?

It's a tad sweeter than what I remember, but then again that was 12 years ago. Consistency is spot on. I gotta pull out some leftover brisket and make a "drownded" brisket sammich.


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## bigred77 (Apr 22, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> Isn't it though?
> 
> It's a tad sweeter than what I remember, but then again that was 12 years ago. Consistency is spot on. I gotta pull out some leftover brisket and make a "drownded" brisket sammich.



It's hard for me to remember too. But it sure is reminiscent 

I pulled a pork butt out of the freezer to smoke this weekend and try it on some pulled pork


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## smokestakk (Apr 22, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> Isn't it though?
> 
> It's a tad sweeter than what I remember, but then again that was 12 years ago. Consistency is spot on. I gotta pull out some leftover brisket and make a "drownded" brisket sammich.


You know, every now and again I think about Harolds and peruse the web for new posts and articles on the place or the man....funny how things work out.  Really glad yall enjoy it!  Now I'm all giddy about getting down to Abilene and hitting the Trade store!! Smoke em if ya got em fellas!  Meats that is.


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## bigred77 (Apr 22, 2021)

smokestakk said:


> You know, every now and again I think about Harolds and peruse the web for new posts and articles on the place or the man....funny how things work out.  Really glad yall enjoy it!  Now I'm all giddy about getting down to Abilene and hitting the Trade store!! Smoke em if ya got em fellas!  Meats that is.




Mail order is available 

I have family in Abilene and couldn't wait, had to get it shipped ASAP


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## bigred77 (Apr 22, 2021)

I only ordered 2 bottles 

I feel like I've made a huge mistake


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## bigred77 (Apr 22, 2021)

I really hope they are marketing this stuff to HEB
HEB is big on selling local to Texas products, sauces, mixes, foods, etc,  that arnt available at any other grocery store
Would love to be able to grab bottles of this stuff on my weekly trips to my local HEB


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## Preacher Man (Apr 23, 2021)

bigred77 said:


> I only ordered 2 bottles
> 
> I feel like I've made a huge mistake


I ordered 10. My two kids took one taste and their faces looked exactly like I expected they would. We went through half a bottle last night.

Translation: I may have made a huge mistake by only ordering 10 bottles.


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## MJB05615 (Apr 24, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> I ordered 10. My two kids took one taste and their faces looked exactly like I expected they would. We went through half a bottle last night.
> 
> Translation: I may have made a huge mistake by only ordering 10 bottles.


Just from the way you are talking about this stuff, I ordered 2 bottles plus a bottle of their Rub, different brand.  I'm making Ribs tomorrow and will be using this sauce tomorrow.  I can't wait.  Your excitement level says it all.  I'll let you know how it is, and I'm sure I'll be ordering 10 more this week.


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## Preacher Man (Apr 24, 2021)

MJB05615 said:


> Just from the way you are talking about this stuff, I ordered 2 bottles plus a bottle of their Rub, different brand.  I'm making Ribs tomorrow and will be using this sauce tomorrow.  I can't wait.  Your excitement level says it all.  I'll let you know how it is, and I'm sure I'll be ordering 10 more this week.


I hope I haven't hyped it up too much, haha.

Don't expect a glaze to form out of this unless you add ingredients yourself. It's intended to be pretty runny. Harold used to dunk his buns in the sauce before slapping some brisket on it. He called it "drownded".


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## MJB05615 (Apr 24, 2021)

I'm gonna use it after the Ribs are done the first time.  The Mrs. is very picky how I make the Ribs.  Have to be the same everytime.  So I'll be using on my Ribs after done being cooked.  If it's real good, maybe my Ribs will be "drownded".  Thanks, I'll definitely let you know tomorrow.


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## MJB05615 (Apr 26, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> I hope I haven't hyped it up too much, haha.
> 
> Don't expect a glaze to form out of this unless you add ingredients yourself. It's intended to be pretty runny. Harold used to dunk his buns in the sauce before slapping some brisket on it. He called it "drownded".


Tried the Sauce, it was excellent!  You didn't over hype it at all.  It tasted like a sauce I've had some years ago, can't remember where or when.  We've been to Tx once in 2008, maybe then?  Not sure, but definitely liked it a lot.  Thanks for the info.  Now I have to do a Brisket to go along with the sauce, lol.


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## oldeskooldave (May 19, 2021)

Just received my order of 5 bottles yesterday, and sorry to say, it isn't the same. Way too tangy/vinegary, and sweeter (maybe the pomegranate?). Going to try to add beef broth or something to see if that helps... Anyway, looks like the real recipe is still a family secret.


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## smokestakk (Jun 27, 2021)

Preacher Man said:


> I ordered 10. My two kids took one taste and their faces looked exactly like I expected they would. We went through half a bottle last night.
> 
> Translation: I may have made a huge mistake by only ordering 10 bottles.


AAAAAMEN...AAAAAAMEN


If Ya Know Ya Know
_______


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## smokestakk (Jun 27, 2021)

bigred77 said:


> I really hope they are marketing this stuff to HEB
> HEB is big on selling local to Texas products, sauces, mixes, foods, etc,  that arnt available at any other grocery store
> Would love to be able to grab bottles of this stuff on my weekly trips to my local HEB


Good Point there....I wonder what the story on that is.  Maybe some contract to carry it at that goods store only....would be interested to find out.


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## jbb98m (Dec 9, 2021)

OMG. Thinking of Harold’s makes my teary. I always thought one of the secrets - the secret to the graininess - was a lot coarse ground chili powder.


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## MCarey (Feb 4, 2022)

OMG I can't believe I found this! I have been dreaming about Harold's for so many years! We moved to Florida for 3 years came back and he was gone :/ I'll definitely have to try the Abilene sauce, but forget about the momma Sally's or whatever, that wanna be Harold's at the fair. I literally spit it out it was !!!TERRIBLE!!! We were served nothing but lumps of rubbery fat with orange water they were calling sauce and handed out by the dropper full. Man I'd eat a brick if it had his sauce on it as long as there was hot water cornbread to go with.


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