# Air rifles



## rickw (Jul 26, 2009)

I was wondering if anyone here is familiar with high powered air rifles, 1000 fps or higher. I don't want to spend more than $300 and want one that's not too awful loud. I have my eye on a  Gamo Whisper .

 Any and all opinions welcomed.


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## davenh (Jul 26, 2009)

I recently bought a Beeman 1073 broke barrel pellet gun for $125 at Walmart. Will shoot .177 and .22, comes with two barrels. Worked great on the groundhog I used to have in the garden 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






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## meat hunter (Jul 26, 2009)

You can not go wrong with Gamo. A tack driver if you ask me. Be cautious though if you are mounting a scope as regular rifle scope do not last long on air rifles, as odd as it may seem, the recoil on air rifles is different and have been known to mess of the reticles. Look for scopes made for air rifles.


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## eman (Jul 26, 2009)

i have a gammo whisper 177 cal. and have installed a simmons 3x9 scope on it .
Deadly on small game at 30 +yds.
 Now for the down side . i also have a benjamin pump 22 cal. w/ the same scope.  The benjamin has over 300fps less than the gammo but at 25 / 30 yds the knockdown of the 22 vs the 177 is amazing.
 i like the gammo for head shots on tree rats but for rabbits, coons , stray cats i like the knockdown of the benjiman pump.


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## rickw (Jul 26, 2009)

How loud is the Benjamin compared to the Whisper? I am mostly looking for something to shoot in the yard and the occasional squirrel.


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## eman (Jul 26, 2009)

they are totally diferent sounds but the noise is about the same level.
 If you oil your gammo and oil gets in the barrel it will be as loud as a 22 rifle the next time or 2 you fire it. The sound that i hear more w/ the benjy is the clock clock clock when you pump it.


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## eman (Jul 26, 2009)

if your neighbors are going to complain about you shooting a pellet gun then noise isn't going to be a problem cause they'll complain if they see you in the yard w/ it.


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## cruizer (Jul 26, 2009)

My vote is for the whisper. The shooter hears the report of the spring action. But if you get out in front of the gun the report is much less. Dime groups at fifty yards. 1200 fps. Good on dogs!


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## thepiro (Jul 26, 2009)

Been out of the Air gun/field target seen for about 10 years so am not familiar with the Gamo Whisperer.

Back then the Spanish firm Gamo, or EL Gamlo had a name for producing gimmicky guns, some of which worked well and were reasonably reliable.

Don’t know about the fitted Silencer, I was under the impression that they were banned in the U.S. This will defiantly cut muzzle noise but won’t do anything for the loud thump that comes from the action.

Other problems with running an Air Gun of this power is inaccuracy unless you use well made heavy pellets, guns of this power are very pellet sensitive.

If you are serious about airguns possibly consider a second hand pre charged weapon, as their actions only produce a hammer drop sound and the silencer takes care of the rest.

I live in the UK where the maximum permitted velocity in .177 is about 800 ft per second of 12 ft Lb of kinetic energy. I shoot an old Titan Manitou in .177 with a 6X24X45 Tasco TR scope and a Logan silencer. Combo is totally recoilless. 

Once charged this weapon will give me 60 good shots in the field and is much lighter than a high powered spring gun to hump around.

Using Bisley Magnum pellets, which cuts me down to about 700FT per second the combo is deadly against bunnies out to 60yds and has the accuracy to go for head shots at that range.


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## deltadude (Jul 26, 2009)

Growing up in the country, hunting was part of my youth, shotguns, 22s, deer rifles, etc.  My 3 children were born in the city near L.A.  A hand gun for defense was about it.  Until the boys got to about 8-10, then we got into air rifles for some backyard plinkin.  .20 Sheridan, and a .177 RWS spring piston (can't rem the Model #),  the RWS was about 700 FPS, those where the boys air guns.  Of course I had to get one for myself, and it was one of the more powerful air rifles at the time.

RWS Model 48, and a 9 power scope.

Specs:
Caliber: .177
Ammo type: .177 pellets or ball
Body: Wood stock with Metal Receiver and Barrel
Power Source: Spring Pneumatic
Overall Length: 42"
Barrel Length: 17"
Fire Mode:  Single Shot
Cocking Effort: 39 lbs
Action: Side Lever
Trigger Pull: 3.3 lbs
Gun Weight 8.5lbs
Muzzle Velocity: 1100 FPS
Front Sight: Fixed
Rear Sight: Adjustable

It could kill rabbits, squirrels, crows with this beast at 30-50 yds no wind. (We found orchards to varmint hunt in.)
My wife didn't enjoy us shooting the air guns in the house down thru family room, living room, hallway into the guest bath into a 18"x18" trap.  We tried for single hole accuracy, but I can't rem. if we achieved it or not.  Something we did on rainy days or cold nights.

My oldest son got the sheridan .20 multi pump.  He still says it was one of the best Christmas presents he ever had.  To our surprise, he was an exceptional shot.  He was lucky,  his mass production Sheridan was very accurate to about 20 yards.  Here is an example:  We visited Grand Dad, and went down to the river with the air rifles, we would find beer bottles and toss them into the middle and then shoot at them.  After a few seconds all you could see was the neck.  It was winter and the river was moving slowly, my oldest would shot the next 1st shot about 80% of the time.  That is a moving target approx 1" wide, 1-2" tall, 10-15 yards, and he was knocking them off bottle after bottle 1st shot.

I want to thank you for starting this thread, it brought back those memories, of some great times with my boys.
The best thing about buying a RWS is you can resell it.  I paid about $325 for mine and sold it about 3 or 4 years later for over $200.

The RWS may be about $100+ over your budget, but you will not be sorry.


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## thepiro (Jul 26, 2009)

Agreed, big thanks to RickW for the thread, great memories of great days.

My first serious air gun was a .20 Sheridan with a Galway silencer; it had been doctored to reduce the power for the UK market, totally useless until it got reconverted and a good scope mounted, then it was a smashing peace of kit. 

One draw back with high powered spring guns is the trigger pull can be very heavy. This makes it difficult to remain on target during the squeeze and can cause a jerk as the seer disengages thus affecting the accuracy and general shoot ability of the weapon. I always use a trigger shoe on spring powered guns as it helps with heavy pool trigger control.

As the seer on pre charge and pump up weapons is working with a light hammer spring the trigger is so much sweeter resulting in increased accuracy and more bunnies for the smoker.

The RWS which I believe are historically from the Original and Diana line of air weapons have a good reputation for high powered air weapons but if you want quality and total reliability in a spring gun think about the Weihrauch HW80 the Hw77. if you are a convertion/tunning freek this is the one to go for, there is so much out there for it.

Out the box it is unbeatable and the Record triger unit overcomes the triger pull problems faced by other manufacturers. To strip the gun you knock out 2 pins holding the triger unit and unscrew the spring block, what could be easier. It has been over engineared thus fue problems and plenty room for the DIY freeks.

I have handeled an HW80 converted to 28foot Lbs of konetic energy, it was awsome .

Only one draw back with the HW80 is it it is a bit on the heavy side to carry around all day.


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## deltadude (Jul 26, 2009)

I haven't read anything on air guns in years, thanks to this thread I did a little goggling.

It really looks like the exciting stuff is happening in pre-charged air guns.
Power, accuracy, hunting big game.  You tube has video where a dude kills an american buffalo with a air gun.

If I was to buy one now, it would be hard to choose between a precharged or spring. 

The spring gives you a lot of target fun in the back yard, and can knock down some small varmints.  Great rat killer.  I think if I could find a really good spring .20 with 1100 fps, and no loss in accuracy, that would be a great all around shooter, for air gun.  Springs are a lot quieter than precharged.

The precharge, you can go up in caliber to .22 or .25 have multiple shots either single or double action on a single charge.  You now can hunt a little larger game, plus they are very accurate.  The noise is a problem if you live in the city, sounds too much like a regular firearm.

I came across this site with a lot of user reviews.

Have fun shopping, and shooting..........


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## rickw (Jul 26, 2009)

Wow, a lot more info than I expected, thanks guys. I'm going to check some of your recommendations. I want to stay with .177 due to IL. law. Anything over .18 is considered a "firearm" here in the Peoples Republic of Illinois. I don't want to get a charge of unlawful discharge of a firearm when shooting in the back yard.


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## ronf (Jul 26, 2009)

There is some good information here:

http://www.straightshooters.com/nava...dfeatures.html


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## eman (Jul 26, 2009)

my son was on his ROTC rifle team in H.S. I believe that  the hw 80 was the rifle they used . These guns had been retooled and fitted w/ stabilizers and balance weights . All had triggerpulls that a fly could set off. they shot at 25yds for single hole 10 ring shots.
 I have spent many a fri night b4 a shooting match sitting at the bench w/ him , inspecting and  weighing individual pellets.
 they got as many as they could w/ the same weight. that way when they sighted in b4 the match, every pellet they shot in compitition weighed the exact same as the sighting pellets.
 that gun weighed more than my 12 guage dbl barrel


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## deltadude (Jul 26, 2009)

After we discovered that our oldest was a natural excellent shooter, we looked into competition shooting, and started talking about it.  Then soccer season started, all of our kids played soccer, 2 played almost year round on various club or competitive teams.  When soccer started everything else stopped, and thus any further effort into competitive air rifle shooting was forgot.


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## rickw (Jul 26, 2009)

I took at look at a RWS model 48 while at the gun range this morning. I tell ya that thing was like holding a full fledged high powered rifle. It seemed to be put together pretty darn good. 

 I tried to see how easy it was to charge and when returning the arm it had gotten stuck. The guy next to me said he owns one and they could be a tad stiff at times and to give it some force. Well that's what I did and I broke the damn thing. I bent the connecting rod then the damn thing broke in two. Well that doesn't bode well for RWS, first time handling one and it breaks.

 I'll keep looking and reading and see what I come up with.


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## rickw (Jul 30, 2009)

After a lot of looking around and reading I just ordered a  Crosman Nitro .177 . Should receive it some time next week.


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## deltadude (Jul 30, 2009)

Congrats on your new air rifle purchase.  I can't comment on today's RWS, only point to reviews which give it some fairly high marks.  My RWS 48 was purchased around 1985 so quality may have slid a bit.  I know the price is not that much different today, so quality may have slipped a little.

enjoy your new fun plinker....


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## thepiro (Jul 30, 2009)

The Gas Ram is an excellent system and was first used by Theoben in the UK in the late 80s or early 90s. Of all the rifles we had through the club they tended to be the heaviest but very well made and virtually maintenance free, in fact I can’t remember us ever being inside one

Many customising gun smiths purchased actions from Theoben and produced outstanding air weaponry what did well in Field Target competition. Then Theoben started producing Rams to fit other manufacturer’s weapons and a whole new world opened up.

The System has a great pedigree; and I hope you and your family have many hours of enjoinment with it.


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## oneshot (Jul 30, 2009)

Hey Rick, don't forget the muzzle velocity (less than 700 feet per second). Here is the state law in our little slice of communist Illinois.
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or 
B‑B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

Also check your local ordinances as they may be more stringent.
I don't know if you're a hunter but shooting squirrels is illegal unless you follow the Il. Wildlife Code. ie. hunting license, seasons, etc.
And our game wardens don't have a sense of humor so to speak, they can and will write you tickets and confiscate your equipment (guns, etc.).
I'm not trying to rain on your fun but I don't want to see you get nailed either.


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## rickw (Jul 30, 2009)

You can bet I've read that law a dozen times. The rifle has to meet both qualifications, over 700fps * and * over .18  or larger to be considered a "firearm". I have talked to the IL. State Police and my local authorities and they both agree that it has to meet both. That is the reason I stayed with the .177.

 As far as the squirrels go; I won't be out hunting with this rifle but on the occasion the pesky little things cause damage to my property I'm taken them out.

 I will post some pics when it arrives.


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## hog warden (Jul 30, 2009)

Rick:

I may have missed it, but you didn't say what your intended use was, which is pretty much everything.

My current arsenal:




Beeman R7 and Beeman HW77. Both capable of dime sized groups at 25 yards. 

The R7 (and it's slightly less expensive counterpart, the Weihrach HW30) are the king of backyard shooters. No, not high speed, but more than enough wallop to take out tree rats, starlings, etc., and are as quiet as they are going to get in a spring powered gun. A lot of folks in the air rifle world buy and sell guns, but few ever give up their R7's. 

The larger gun almost sounds like a .22 shooting shorts (more like a nail gun) and is NOT for backyard use, unless you have a really big backyard. Most guns of this size  do make a lot of noise. Number 1 biggest mistake most people make is going high velocity. That HW77 shoots about 825 fps and will put a .177 pellet nearly through a 3/4 inch board at 15 yards. 

In the air rifle world, accuracy and hitting what you aim at counts for more than velocity. Beyond that is pellet selection. They vary so much you wouldn't believe it. To get the best accuracy out of any gun, you have to match it to the right pellet, and in .177, there are literally dozens of pellets  to chose from.


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## billbo (Jul 30, 2009)

That is made in my back yard. The plant is about 6 miles from my house. They make nice air rifles, I think you will be happy.


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## flagriller (Jul 30, 2009)

I've got an FN FiveseveN, whoops it's not an air pistol. Sorry


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## rickw (Jul 30, 2009)

Those are some sweet rifles. I intend to do some plinking in the backyard and taking out the occasional varmint. From what I have read on the Crosman it should fit the bill, I hope.


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## got14u (Jul 30, 2009)

hope you have fun with your plinker..
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





..I know i sure do I went with a gamo http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?...r&productID=70

these things are amazing. I am wanting to get there air shot gun. not sure how it works but man that would be fun to have a pellet "air" shot gun.


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## rickw (Jul 30, 2009)

Now comes the search for a pellet that's going to match well with it.


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## oneshot (Jul 30, 2009)

As far as the squirrels go; I won't be out hunting with this rifle but on the occasion the pesky little things cause damage to my property I'm taken them out.

All I can say is....Bad boy, Bad boy, whatcha gonna do when they come for you, Bad boy Bad boy........rotflmao


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## hog warden (Jul 31, 2009)

It would be rare to find Beeman or JSB pellets locally. Almost all of those are mail order. Walmart sells a Crosman Premier Hollow Point, which seems to perform well in some guns. That's a powerful gun, so the heavier the pellet, the better. A light pellet pushed into the 1,200 fps range means cracking the sound barrier, which is both noisy and inaccurate. Heavier or tight fitting pellets hold the speed down, which again, is better for your intended use.

I was talking pellet guns with my insurance agent. He bought one of the hot Gamo's to pop rabbits and tree rats in his backyard (in town). He shot several, then put the gun away and 15 minutes later got a knock on his door.....it was the Police asking what he knew about the gunshots heard around the neighborhood. They can be that loud.

Let us know how that works out. Crosman has been making some nice stuff lately. Their Mauraduer PCP is really popular. They are selling tons of them to even the high end shooters.


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## rickw (Aug 1, 2009)

Boy Hog you aint kidding. There was slim pickings as far as pellets go. I went to two different stores and came home with some Gamo Match, 7.71 gr and some Crosman Competitions, 7.9 gr. It's a start.

.


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## thepiro (Aug 1, 2009)

If you are looking for a good pellet for the higher powered weapons in .177 try the Bisley Magnums. This pellet weighs in nowadays at 10.7 gr. In my day they weighed in at 10.6 gr and were the most accurate hunting/field target pellet I ever used. They got even better once you cleaned, weighed and lubricated them.

I note that this pellet is now slightly heavier and is slightly over size. I assume this is to accommodate higher power weapons by giving the pellet a better grip on the lands as it runs through the barrel.

Google Bisley Magnum, there are some good articles on there performance in high power weapons.


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## rickw (Aug 6, 2009)

I received the Crosman a couple of days ago. So far I am quite pleased with it. It is still in the break in period but still shoots quite well. I have only used some cheap Crossman and Gamo pellets so far. They shoot about equal with the Crosman having a stray once in a while. I have learned to check the pellet before loading. I think the few flyers I have had was due to misshaped pellets.

 I did go ahead and ordered some JSB Diabolo Exact in 8.4 and 10.2 grain. Both are heavier than what I have now so I hoping for a bit better accuracy from them.

 Thanks to all for they're help and information.


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## carpetride (Aug 6, 2009)

My wife went to college on a shooting scholarship (air and .22).  She used Anschutz barrels.  She was actually invited to the 96 olympic trials but did not qualify for the Olympics themselves.  I still occasionally get her guns out and yep they are big time heavy so was the rest of the equipment she had.  I have done everything you describe above, used a set of calipers to measure bullets, spent hours finessing a trigger to just the right pulll...

Anyway had to pop my head up when I saw some old memories here.


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## rickw (Aug 6, 2009)

Had to reorder, they were out of the JSB pellets. Instead I ordered some Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum 10.5gr, Benjamin Discovery .177 Cal, 10.5 gr, Beeman Kodiak Extra Heavy, 10.6 gr and some  Crosman Premier, 7.9 Grains.

 Hopefully I will have good luck with these. It seems the JSB are a bit hard to get.


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## bogview (Sep 3, 2009)

You can check out the Airgun BBS at http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/ . They have a good classified section for used stuff as well.

I have a Benjamin Discovery with a scope on it . There is a separate hand pump or it can be filled from a scuba tank. On the BBS, there are people that will do upgrades such as, stocks, tuning, quieting etc. The discovery did a great job on a woodpecker that refused to be scared away from the corner boards on our house. Benjamin has a new model, Marauder, which is like the discovery (Disco) but has a rotating magazine.


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