# Pork Shoulder Taking Too Long?



## itherrkr (Dec 27, 2009)

Started a 8.5 pound pork shoulder at 6:15 this morning in my Smoke Vault.  Temp has been around 225 to 240 using my ET7 dual thermo.  One in the pork, one in a tater on the rack.  After 6 hours and 20 minutes, the thing is still only 133 internally.  Still in the danger zone, am I in trouble?  Not sure why it is so slow.  I have bumped the temp up to 250 over that last little bit.

Kent


----------



## navyjeremy (Dec 27, 2009)

If you have another thermo I would try that one as well.  You also want to make sure that the one you are using is calibrated.


----------



## fire it up (Dec 27, 2009)

You can raise the temp more on the smoker and pork will take to that just fine.
Lots of times you will hit a stall but that is generally after the 140 mark.
An overall smoke time you are looking at 10-12 hours give or take.
Try calibrating your probe, changing the batteries and try your second probe in the meat and see what that tells you.

*Heh, Jeremy beat me to it...


----------



## itherrkr (Dec 27, 2009)

I have inserted my "spare" thermo and believe it or not, exactly the same.  Both now 136.  Running 270 now on smoker temp.  

No one has really answered my question about time in the danger zone. Going to be something close to 7 hours.  I know with poultry this equals bad, but not really sure about pork.

This is my first attempt at pulled pork.  I could be paranoid (as usual).


----------



## pignit (Dec 27, 2009)

By the book..... if you inserted your probe in the meat at the beginning of the smoke you introduced the outside to the inside. By the book... internal should have reached 140 in 4 hours or less.... that means from 40 degrees internal. If you were watching your temp... that means four hours from the internal temp reaching 40 degrees to hitting 140. If you haven't punctured the meat with your temp probe when you started the smoke... I would say it is ok... if you have... then I wouldn't eat it.

This is one of the reasons it's always a good idea to not insert your probe until your well into your smoke. When you wait until the external temp of the meat hits 140  it has killed any bacteria that could be introduced to the inside of the meat and your not introducing them to the inside. Usually a butt or picnic will reach 140 internal well before 4 hours into a smoke therefore it's not an important factor. If you are confident that the meat probe is accurate... maybe your smoker temp is off and your smoking at a lower temp than you think. Sounds like something is off.


----------



## itherrkr (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree something is weird.  As I said I have a probe on the rack, which is the exact same setup I had over the weekend twice when I cooked two tbirds to perfection. I have no doubt 275 is 275 based on the turkey project, but 225, must not be 225, even though the probe says so.  

I think this has just become an $8 plus propane experiment.  At least it is a cheap screw-up.


----------



## pignit (Dec 27, 2009)

Well if it were to make you sick I'm sure you would give 8 bucks to feel better. Might be a good investment in the learning curve. It's a funny thing.... bacteria that grow and look slimy and smell bad usually won't hurt you but the ones you can't smell or see in the meat are the ones that can hurt ya bad.


----------



## fire it up (Dec 27, 2009)

Would still like to figure out why it was taking so long to come to temp.
Any chance your meat was frozen in the center when you put it on?
Other than a probe being off or the smoker temp being off I can't think of why it wouldn't have come to temp by then.

I do agree about the probe, I don't bother sticking mine in until 3-4 hours into the smoke on something like a pulled pork smoke.


----------



## alx (Dec 27, 2009)

Sounds like a thermo problem.

6 hours at 225 is not gonna be 133 internal....


----------



## itherrkr (Dec 27, 2009)

Meat was definitely not frozen.  As this has now become an experiment, I am testing several thermo placements.  I suspect the thermo on the rack is towards the back of the unit, where the heat has a direct path up from the burner, and then directly out the top.  Still miffed why this placement worked great for the turkey's I cooked, but not today.


----------



## itherrkr (Dec 27, 2009)

Confirmed.  If I slide water pan all the way back against back wall, temperature goes down 30 ish degrees.  Probe directly next to meat on the side, not on the back of meat, about 20 degree difference.  So, I am guessing I was smoking along at something close to 190 to 200 degrees this morning, not the 225 to 240 I thought.  Ahh, the joys of new toys
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Kent


----------



## DanMcG (Dec 27, 2009)

Bummer kent, But next time you'll nail it!


----------



## tasunkawitko (Dec 27, 2009)

looks to me like you're right on schedule, but thee's nothing at all wrong with bumping it up to 250 degrees; some prefer to cook it at that temperature!

as you gain experience, you will learn to recognize signs from the meat and from your pit about what's going on, and use those observations to know what to do next. having said that, it is always good to know what your themometers are doing. calibrating it with an ice slurry AND with boiling water (adjust boiling temperature to your altitude - where i live, water boils @ 207 degrees) and then you will always know that your temp readings are accurate. 

my method is to do the potato thing, in order to keep track of temperatures on the grate, until the meat "should" be done. from there i start checking it every half-hour or so until i reach 195 degrees internal, then foil/wrap in towels and rest at least a half hour.


----------



## tasunkawitko (Dec 27, 2009)

sorry, i just read the rest of your post and wanted to say that i don't see any reason to discard the pork.


----------



## steevieg (Dec 29, 2009)

You know, I've never ever thought about the consequences of putting the meat probe in at the beginning of the smoke.  It makes good sense not to and I won't do it anymore.  However, if you were to put the part of the probe that is going in the meat into boiling water immediately before inserting it I think it would be OK.  But, then again, why go to the hassle of that.  Just wait 4 or 5 hours.  Amazing the things you can still pick up after several years of this.


----------



## pignit (Dec 29, 2009)

I always disinfect my probe before inserting it into the meat... but the actual problem is the contact the probe makes with the skin and outside as it slides in. Those micro organisms are little tiny fellers and it doesn't take long for them to multiply in the right environment.


----------



## mballi3011 (Dec 29, 2009)

I really hope you have another thermo meter to check out the meats real temp because if it's really 133 for 6 hours To me your throwing this meat away. It's aways better to be safe then puken alot. I would also check the thermo meter in a differant place in the meat too just make sure your in far enough??


----------



## deltadude (Dec 29, 2009)

I agree with TasunkaWitko,


----------



## tasunkawitko (Dec 29, 2009)

we've got a member or two who actually work in food safety in the food products industry, so i will allow them to weigh in with their knowledge and experience and refrain from getting into specifics and arcane discussions on the matter; having said that, in general, i think there needs to be some common sense mixed in with food safety vigilance. 

it's of course advisable to use some normal safety precautions but it is also possible to carry this too far. there's a reason that people aren't dropping like flies all across america during backyard barbecues, and that reason is because you almost have to try to get sick in order to get sick.


----------



## gnubee (Dec 30, 2009)

I use remotes all the time one in the meat and one stuck thru a spud.

But I also stick a couple of the el cheapo $4.95 oven thermos from Wal Mart in on the rack. I place one on either side of the meat. That way you have 4 reference points to check. My electronic thermos have failed in the past but those bi metal oven thermometers never have. I have 6 of them sitting on the top of my fridge, a glance will tell me whether or not one of them has a deviation. 

When the meat gets to 140F all the bad little buggers have died. They leave behind a toxin which is what makes you sick. A lot of people think you can catch something from the spoiled meat but this is just not true. 

Food poisoning is just that, You are not being infected you are being poisoned. 

It is always a good Idea to Move the meat to a different spot in the smoker if you notice a very lower temp from the meat probe at a time when you think or know it should be higher.

Also in lots of different types of smokers there are known hot and cool spots. After using the smoker a few times you will learn where these are then you can either learn to live with them or try to do some mods that will move the air around so as to even out the temps throughout the smoker. 

I have a MES and the back-right hand side is usually 15-20 degrees hotter than the rest of the oven, plus it has a greater air flo near the top vent. So I avoid putting meat there. If I have a full smoker I will rotate the positions of the meat 2 or 3 times during the smoke.


----------



## wmarkw (Dec 30, 2009)

Wow good insight.  I have always inserted my probes during prep, whether it is a chicken or pork butt or chuck, etc.  I never thought about the bacteria jump.  I think I will hold off for a few hours.  I guess the issue would be chicken, when you probe all the juices will come running out.

I have the 24 smoke vault and my temps vary like crazy too.  I do have 2 oven thermos that I use along w/ my digi probes.

I have tested my probes (they're broke now) w/ the boiling method but how do you calibrate them??  I might be reading more into this.  If water boils at 212 deg and my probe only reaches 207 then I have a 5 deg actual variance?  So if my butt reads 165, I'm really at 170?  Am I dumb tonight?? lol


----------



## ronp (Dec 30, 2009)

They will vary according to altitude my boiling temp is 203' at 5,000 feet.


----------



## pignit (Dec 30, 2009)

It's not what is coming out.... it's what's going in. This really isn't an issue unless your going to be smoking to an internal temp of less than 160 or as in this case... the meat hasn't passed through the danger zone in less than four hours.


Your right on except you need to check what the boiling point of water is at your elevation. Mine was 210.


----------



## pineywoods (Dec 30, 2009)

Food safety standards that I have seen state 40-140 in under 4 hours for punctured meats.
The intact muscle rule says the outer .5" has to reach 140 in under 4 hours.
As soon as you inject or insert a probe the intact muscle rule goes out the window


----------



## tasunkawitko (Dec 30, 2009)

wmarkw - yep, what piginit and ron said is exactly right - the temperature at which water boils varies with altitude.

the boiling point at my altitude actually is 207 degrees, and my accurite thermometer is spot-on. you can check yours fairly easily on the internet.


----------



## bmudd14474 (Dec 30, 2009)

No offense but if he has had the probe in it for some time and it's 2 hours and 20 minutes past the 4 hour window I would say that he should discard this meat. This has allowed the bacteria to grow for that much longer. If it was 30 minutes past and you hit 140 maybe but not 2 hours past. Then we also dont know how long the meat was above 140 before it went into the smoker. If he had it out at room temp getting it rubbed down then that counts towards the 4 hours also. 

I know I wouldn't serve this to my family or friends.


----------



## wmarkw (Dec 30, 2009)

Nice!!  Very informative.  I think I will though probe the meat after a few hours in from now on.


----------



## tasunkawitko (Dec 30, 2009)

wmarkw - that's what i do also. i bbq it for quite a long time until the meat starts giving outward signs that it is close to being done, then i probe it every now and then in order to check the temperature. one it hits around 195-200, i take it off the heat, foil it and let it rest.

having said that, as long as cooked past 160, there is no danger of getting sick from bacteria and certainly no danger of any toxins.


----------



## gemohler (Dec 31, 2009)

<shock>
Dont forget barometric pressure.  ;)

From STD TO 29.80, today here in Denver, its about .2d difference!!!
</shock>


----------



## pignit (Dec 31, 2009)

The information provided is appreciated. I had no idea that passing along USDA guidelines would create such a stir or that in effect I would be creating mass hysteria concerning food safety. I was merely giving a new forum member with a question sound advice from the sources we rely on here on a daily basis. I have been reading up on bacteria and pathogens myself and am understanding a whole new world of information on the  characteristics of food borne illness and I also understand there is a lot of information to digest and understand. That is why when I answer a post from a new forum member just starting in smoking I try to lay out very simple and correct guidelines for them to begin their understanding of the hobby. No doubt there is much more to learn as I am in that process myself, but I don't feel that I gave any misinformation... incomplete maybe as you can get as complex as you choose with this type of question, and I certainly never suggested that people were dropping like flys in their backyards from mishandling food. Not real sure where the hysteria comes in. Just trying to keep it simple to understand for the new guy and move on from there. If I have passed on any misinformation feel free to notify the mods and have it deleted. I appreciate the in depth input but resent the suggestion that my answers have created a problem or are incorrect.


----------



## tasunkawitko (Dec 31, 2009)

pig - wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular - we've got a discussion on this going in the otbs forum:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...ad.php?t=86551

i'd like your input help on what we can do to take all of this information and hammer out all issues, then condense it down to a very short and very correct bulleted list of guidelines. 

many thanks!

ron


----------



## amazinglyso (Apr 18, 2020)

All meat needs to be seared or partially boiled before cooking.  Pork in particular needs to be boiled in a large pot of boiling water in stock-water/ginger beer (either/or) for a good 10-15 minutes then heat reduced to much lower temperature for another 20 mins (simmer).  After the above, place Pork shoulder wrapped around kitchen foil and cook in oven at 160 degrees for 2 hours (turning meat at least twice within this time with  cooking juices from cooked fat from meat), then turn oven up to 185 degrees for 1.5 hours.  The joint should be hard on the outside and tender all the way through - this is the best way to cook Pork joints overall.


----------



## ososmokeshack (Apr 18, 2020)

amazinglyso said:


> All meat needs to be seared or partially boiled before cooking.  Pork in particular needs to be boiled in a large pot of boiling water in stock-water/ginger beer (either/or) for a good 10-15 minutes then heat reduced to much lower temperature for another 20 mins (simmer).  After the above, place Pork shoulder wrapped around kitchen foil and cook in oven at 160 degrees for 2 hours (turning meat at least twice within this time with  cooking juices from cooked fat from meat), then turn oven up to 185 degrees for 1.5 hours.  The joint should be hard on the outside and tender all the way through - this is the best way to cook Pork joints overall.


Wtf


----------



## millerbuilds (Apr 19, 2020)

ososmokeshack said:


> Wtf


Yeah.... ????


----------



## noboundaries (Apr 19, 2020)

2009 thread. Some interesting advice in it, especially the searing point. Best advice was not to insert meat probes for several hours. Two reasons; no punctures of intact muscle, and no worries about what's going on with the meat or stall. I don't probe meat until WAAAAY into a smoke. Doing so makes for relaxing hours as I do something else.


----------



## SecondHandSmoker (Apr 19, 2020)

amazinglyso said:


> All meat needs to be seared or partially boiled before cooking.  Pork in particular needs to be boiled in a large pot of boiling water in stock-water/ginger beer (either/or) for a good 10-15 minutes then heat reduced to much lower temperature for another 20 mins (simmer).  After the above, place Pork shoulder wrapped around kitchen foil and cook in oven at 160 degrees for 2 hours (turning meat at least twice within this time with  cooking juices from cooked fat from meat), then turn oven up to 185 degrees for 1.5 hours.  The joint should be hard on the outside and tender all the way through - this is the best way to cook Pork joints overall.




That might be some good advice over on Boiling Meat Forums...

All joking aside, in the past I used to parboil CSRs before grilling mainly to shorten the cook time.


----------



## hardcookin (Apr 19, 2020)

Your digging if you find a 11 year old thread


----------

