# Rib Confusion



## stevetheteacher (Aug 11, 2015)

Planning on doing some type of ribs Friday, but am confused. I've heard both 3-2-1 and 2-2-1. Which is recommended and why?


----------



## oddball (Aug 11, 2015)

Times varies by type (ie: beef or pork).

I don't foil mine at all, so that method doesn't apply.


----------



## oddball (Aug 11, 2015)

>> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/189564/methods-of-smoking-ribs


----------



## Bearcarver (Aug 11, 2015)

The basic starter is 3-2-1 for Pork Spares, and 2-2-1 for BabyBacks.

Then people adjust to their likes.

As for Beef, It depends on my mood, and how much meat is on the bones.

Bear


----------



## stevetheteacher (Aug 11, 2015)

For argument's sake, let's say pork ribs.


----------



## jcollins (Aug 11, 2015)

As a very general rule the 3-2-1 method is for Spare ribs. Doing this method in my own experience will make your ribs fall off the bone tender, same for the 2-2-1 method which is for Baby Back ribs. i dont like my ribs falling apart so i do not foil at all approx 5 hours straight smoke after 4 hours i start probing for internal temp and tenderness.


----------



## for-q cookers (Aug 11, 2015)

Depends on temp.... a lot of folks to 3-2-1 when cooking at 225 degrees. I like to cook around 250 - 270. I always put 2.5  hours smoke on ribs. I do foil mine becasue I like to lay the meaty side down in brown sugar, butter and honey. they are usually ready to come out of the foil in about an hour and I let em finish for about 30 to 45 minutes.... Tender and juicy every time. I don't like fall off the bone tender, I prefer a clean bite. I wait 10 to 15 minutes on the cuttting board before a slice the ribs.


----------



## cal1956 (Aug 11, 2015)

the simple way ...dry rub ,temp 225 , time 3 1/2 to 4 hours , .rest 1-2 hours ...eat !!!


----------



## damon555 (Aug 11, 2015)

Don't be confused....It's quite simple. Rub the ribs, put them on the smoker for 4-6 hours, take them off the smoker, enjoy.


----------



## joe black (Aug 11, 2015)

Steve,  All of the above posts are good.  The 3-2-1 spares and 2-2-1 baby backs are only for foiling for the middle number.  I, personally, don't foil as I find that they get mushy (FOTB).  I get loin back ribs from Costco.  They are basically baby backs with a portion of the loin left on and are very meaty.  They are Swifts and are packed 3 racks to a cryovac.  I have found them here for the last couple of years to have the membrane already off.   Some folks in your area say that the membranes in the ones up there are still on.  I cook mine nekkid at about 275* and they are usually bending good in about 3 hours.  Then I will sauce for about 20 or 30 minutes.  I will let them rest for about 30 minutes before I cut them.  Cut face down on the cutting board.  Good luck,  Joe.


----------



## muralboy (Aug 11, 2015)

I agree with Joe.  I tried the 3-1-1 and found the ribs too soft.  Next time 5 hours on smoker with no foil - perfection.  Actually had to put in warmer for 1-1/2 due to time so finished on grill to lightly sauce.  Tender and good bite off the grill.


----------



## venture (Aug 11, 2015)

In my opinion, the 3-2-1 is a good starting point for beginners who want to foil.

From there?  If you want to foil, you can tinker with 3-2-1  to find what is perfect for yourself and the people you plan on serving.

There are many different tastes for ribs.  Cooking for and pleasing a crowd can be as difficult or impossible as for a good restaurant cook wishing to please every customer.

Good luck and good smoking.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 12, 2015)

Still confused, or More So???
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  These guys are all right! It is a matter of taste. You want fall off the bone tender, go by the numbers and Foil. Like more Bite Through Ribs? No foil and smoke until your therm probe slides in with no resistance, any where from 4-6 hours depending on smoker temp and cut of Ribs. Here is some easy info on Foiled Ribs by the numbers...JJ

*Smoked Ribs as easy as 3-2-1*

A full rack of Spare Ribs will take about 6 hours at 225*F...The 3-2-1 smoked rib recipe is a good way to smoke ribs and tends to turn out perfect ribs every time whether you are using the meatier Full rack spare rib or the Saint Louis cut. Baby Back ribs use a 2-2-1 method. The ribs are smoked at 225 - 250 degrees for best results...
The 3 stands for the 3 hours that you initially smoke the ribs with nothing but your favorite rub on them and some smoke with your favorite hardwood such as hickory, apple, pecan, etc. After the 3 hours you remove the ribs and quickly double wrap them in heavy duty foil.. just before you seal them up add some Foiling Juice or Apple Juice and close the foil leaving some room around the ribs for the steam to be able to flow around the meat and the juice to braise the meat which Flavors/Tenderizes it.

The ribs cook in the smoker wrapped for 2 hours undisturbed. There is no need for Smoke at this point... After 2 hours remove the ribs from the smoker, unwrap, saving any juices in the foil, and place back into the smoker for the final 1 hour, with smoke if you wish.This firms them up, creates a nice Bark and finishes the cooking process. You can add a glaze or sauce at this point if you like. The meat will be pretty close to fall off the bone and be extremely juicy, tender and flavorful...JJ

*Foiling Juice / Sweet Pulled Pork Finishing Sauce*

*Foiling Juice*

For each Rack of Ribs Combine:

1T Pork Rub, yours

1/2 Stick Butter

1/2C Cane Syrup... Dark Corn Syrup...or Honey

1/4C Apple Cider...or Juice

1T Molasses

Optional: 2T Apple Cider Vinegar. Add 2T Mustard and 1/4C Ketchup to make it more of a KC Glaze.

Simmer until a syrupy consistency.

Allow to cool for 5 minutes, pour over foiled Ribs and

run your 2 hour phase of 3-2-1. For the last phase return

the ribs to the smoker BUT reserve any Juice remaining

in the Foil. Simmer the Juice over med/low heat to reduce to a saucy thickness. Glaze the Ribs for presentation or service.


----------



## stevetheteacher (Aug 12, 2015)

jcollins said:


> As a very general rule the 3-2-1 method is for Spare ribs. Doing this method in my own experience will make your ribs fall off the bone tender, same for the 2-2-1 method which is for Baby Back ribs. i dont like my ribs falling apart so i do not foil at all approx 5 hours straight smoke after 4 hours i start probing for internal temp and tenderness.


What temp should I be looking for?


----------



## for-q cookers (Aug 12, 2015)

I go by feel, but 160 -170 is a good bet.


----------



## mdboatbum (Aug 12, 2015)

stevetheteacher said:


> What temp should I be looking for?


180°f will give you meat that is tender yet still has a "good bite". 190°f will be pulling away from the bone, 200°f will pretty much fall apart. 












image.jpg



__ mdboatbum
__ Aug 12, 2015





This was smoked to 180°f and rested for an hour.

People always seem to think you cannot cook ribs to a specific internal temperature. This is simply untrue. With a probe thermometer you just temp them in the middle of the rack between the bones. Take several readings to make sure you're not in a fat pocket or hitting bone. I'm not sure why we have no problem temping steaks and chicken, but it's taboo to temp ribs. I'm happy to give up all the voodoo and guesswork in favor of getting the exact result I want every time. If cooking to temp is somehow cheating, or makes me less of a BBQ cook, that's fine. In my eyes it's just using the tools in my arsenal to get consistent results.


----------



## mummel (Aug 12, 2015)

Mdboatbum said:


> 180°f will give you meat that is tender yet still has a "good bite". 190°f will be pulling away from the bone, 200°f will pretty much fall apart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im going to probe my ribs next time just for the heck of it.  I have two probes and will put them in different parts.  Costco ribs comes with a quite a bit of meat around the bones, so it may be worth a shot.


----------



## jcollins (Aug 12, 2015)

stevetheteacher said:


> What temp should I be looking for?


Also if your asking for what the smoker temp is generally from 225 to 250


----------



## cedar eater (Aug 12, 2015)

I used 3-2-1 for St. Louis cut spare ribs and found that the ribs were essentially done after the 2 hours in foil. I left them in for another 15 minutes after mopping them with BBQ sauce because that's what some of the eaters expected, not because they needed it. But I will mention that you should not believe that a St. Louis cut purchased from the store is really a St. Louis cut. Some butchers don't cut enough, and most don't trim enough fat off, and none of them take the membrane off the inside. I googled and watched a youtube of the St. Louis cut and made much better ribs. If you do it right, they don't have to be FOTB to get the fat fully rendered.


----------



## joe black (Aug 12, 2015)

Yes, ribs can be probed for temp, but why bother?  The bend method and toothpick method are just too easy.  Just my $0.02.


----------



## mdboatbum (Aug 12, 2015)

Joe Black said:


> Yes, ribs can be probed for temp, but why bother?  The bend method and toothpick method are just too easy.  Just my $0.02.


Yes, those methods will tell you when the meat is done, but they won't tell you precisely when it's "almost done, or exactly how far away it is from being done. The bend test is dependent on the thickness of the ribs, the length of the rack, whether or not the membrane has been removed etc... The toothpick test is a question of feel, which, by its very nature is subjective. I'm not trying to insult anyone. If those methods work for you, that's great. I just like to remove as many variables as possible and to be able to repeat results. Shooting for a specific temperature makes it very simple. I like simple.


----------



## stevetheteacher (Aug 12, 2015)

My local grocer has made my decision for me by process of elimination ... spare ribs it is


----------



## cedar eater (Aug 12, 2015)

stevetheteacher said:


> My local grocer has made my decision for me by process of elimination ... spare ribs it is


Spare ribs can be tricky if you don't do the St. Louis cut. They have so much fat around the sternum that you can end up with unrendered globs of fat unless you cook them until they fall off the bone. The St. Louis cut trims the sternum off, removes a ton of fat and the diaphragm meat, and removes the membrane from the lung side of the ribs. I recommend that you google it. Save any meat that you trim off. It's great for soups, burritos, etc.


----------



## gwschenk (Aug 12, 2015)

Steve, my first ribs were baby backs. No foil, 265 degrees by the stock WSM thermometer, 5 hours. Threw some sauce at them for 20 minutes. They were great. I think yours will come out fine. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.


----------



## jcollins (Aug 12, 2015)

Exactly i call those pices the rib tips ive seen people smoke them seprately  here is a good picture 













20140502-291811-how-to-trim-st-louis-ribs-guide.jp



__ jcollins
__ Aug 12, 2015







Most spare ribs are already cut though


----------



## cedar eater (Aug 13, 2015)

jcollins said:


> Most spare ribs are already cut though


That hasn't been my experience where I live. Even those sold as "St. Louis style" have needed extensive trimming. This link shows the process I've had to go through with spareribs.

Rib Preparation


----------



## jcollins (Aug 13, 2015)

Cedar Eater said:


> That hasn't been my experience where I live. Even those sold as "St. Louis style" have needed extensive trimming. This link shows the process I've had to go through with spareribs.
> 
> Rib Preparation


This is a great walk through in the pictures alone. Normally i can find St. Louis cut ribs that are trimmed up pretty well. the only trimming i ever do is the flap on the back or the "Skirt" as called in that walk through and the membrane. i guess i just get lucky that they are pretrimmed pretty well.


----------



## mummel (Aug 13, 2015)

jcollins said:


> Exactly i call those pices the rib tips ive seen people smoke them seprately here is a good picture
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Costco sells their ribs with all the bits.  I dont know guys, I enjoy it.  I eat every last piece of it.


----------



## for-q cookers (Aug 13, 2015)

mummel said:


> Costco sells their ribs with all the bits.  I dont know guys, I enjoy it.  I eat every last piece of it.


Me too.... after I cut away the flaps and square em up, I apply the rub to em and put em on next to the ribs.... Great snack an hour or so later...


----------



## cedar eater (Aug 13, 2015)

mummel said:


> Costco sells their ribs with all the bits.  I dont know guys, I enjoy it.  I eat every last piece of it.


There are three advantages to the St. Louis cuts. 1) You don't have to cook the meat completely off the bone to get all the fat rendered. There's a flavor component in unrendered fat that triggers a gag reflex. Some are more sensitive than others, so even if you don't mind the excess fat, your guests may not appreciate it. They will have to expend effort eating around the part that makes them feel sick. 2) The cook time is quicker and more consistent. You don't have the meat on the skinny end way overcooked when the meat on the fatty end is barely done. 3) You get the meat that's cut off for other purposes. You can even render the lard if you're interested.


----------



## Bearcarver (Aug 13, 2015)

I personally like my Pork Spares untrimmed. I think I get a juicier rack of ribs that way.

All I do is remove the Membrane & any loose excess fat. I never square them, until me teeth get there.

We like them FOTB, but I seldom get them quite that far.

However---They're Great all ways!!

Just my 2 Piasters,

Bear


----------



## mummel (Aug 13, 2015)

Bear as you know my 3-2-1 spares came out great the other day.  However, if I wanted to push it and get them even more FOTB, should I increase the foil time, or the braising time?  So say 3:2.5:1 or 3:2:1.5?  I assume cooking then longer will make them more FOTB correct?


----------



## cedar eater (Aug 13, 2015)

For-Q Cookers said:


> Me too.... after I cut away the flaps and square em up, I apply the rub to em and put em on next to the ribs.... Great snack an hour or so later...


Thanks. I'll have to try that with the larger pieces. I usually trim the trimmings after I get the ribs into the smoker, and then put them into a crockpot. But there are some nice meaty bits that would be well smoked long before the ribs and mmmm, mmmm, good.


----------



## schlotz (Aug 13, 2015)

Steve, by now you've read plenty and probably have come to the conclusion that there are multiple ways to successfully smoke spare ribs. Some require more attention and effort than others.

If kind of new to this, I would recommend starting as simple as possible:  

Per jcollins, trim them as shown.

Remove the back membrane getting it loose at the end by sliding a butter knife in between it and the bone. Grab it with a piece of paper towel and pull - pretty simple.

Put on your rub(s) of choice

Smoke between 225-250° (I tend to say around 225)

It then becomes relaxation / lubrication :) time.  You are looking for meat pull back off the bone of 1/4 to 1/2 inch.

Depending on the meat, temp, etc.. that can be anywhere from 4--6 hours but I usually see it around the 5+ hour mark.  

BTW: I do spray them with apple juice every 40 min or so starting with hour 3.

If you want to sauce them, do so with approx 30 mins left.

Matt


----------



## Bearcarver (Aug 13, 2015)

mummel said:


> Bear as you know my 3-2-1 spares came out great the other day.  However, if I wanted to push it and get them even more FOTB, should I increase the foil time, or the braising time?  So say 3:2.5:1 or 3:2:1.5?  I assume cooking then longer will make them more FOTB correct?


You have to experiment what works good for you.

My Step by Step came out pretty good using 2.5--2.5--1. If that doesn't give you the FOTB like you like, try 2.5--3--0.5.

Bear


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 13, 2015)

I too buy full racks and cut into St Louis ribs. I then remove the meat from the cartilage,making boneless rib tips. From 2-3 racks we get enough rib tip meat to get another meal out of, usually marinated into Chinese Char Siu. In the pic below, you can see the boneless meat I got from these racks...JJ

Chinese BBQ Ribs and boneless Char Siu...













2013-03-25 14.48.11.jpg



__ chef jimmyj
__ Mar 27, 2013


----------



## mummel (Aug 14, 2015)

Im so hungry right now...


----------

