# Engineered Smoke - High Quality Electric Smoker



## nick m (Jul 20, 2012)

My name is Nick Mosher, and I'm a (soon to be) engineer designing a high-quality electric smoker along with a team of people with skills in precision machining, metal crafting, and artistic design.  Our design will allow independent control of heat, smoke, and moisture, and will offer automated settings for the beginner (or those who would rather be having fun with family and friends) for popular classics such as Baby-Backs, Shoulder, Brisket, Chicken Thighs, Salmon, Almonds, etc.  Of course full manual / custom control will only be a button push away for those who want to experiment (or compete with regular expected results!).

My goal here is to get input from people to help incorporate design elements they would like to see be part of this product which will hopefully be leaps and bounds ahead of anything else on the market outside of commercial-grade units used by major food producers (which cost tens of thousands of dollars).  The idea is to make a reliable, attractive, and aesthetically pleasing smoker that has the same high-end controls, instrumentation, and capabilities on a smaller scale with a beautiful interface.  Think Apple Computers meets Applewood (with plenty of insulated Stainless Steel)...

We're passionate about good food and design, and are heading into this with the mindset that we would be more than happy to invest this time and energy even if the only result is a fantastic smoker in our own homes.  All of the design and labor is currently being done on our own time, and by starting at square one with most of the components we hope to keep the cost down while simultaneously offering unparalleled quality and capability.  Initial estimates peg the price somewhere in the range of $1000 (+/- a few hundred depending on the full feature set and materials used).  This is more than the cheaply constructed poorly designed (and feature barren) $500 mass-market units, but less than many custom BBQ's that hit $2000, $3000, or more.

So no MIG welded steel drums painted black, no generic thermocouple based temperature controllers adapted to chassis' with magnets and taped wires - you get the idea.

Please chime in with (positive or negative) ideas, suggestions, critical opinions, etc.  We value what you have to say, and perhaps some of you might be asked to jump in on testing with a pre-paid CC for grub when we reach that phase.  I'll be discussing most things related to the design process (along with pictures), but might hold back on a few details for obvious reasons (such as the software being run on the micro-controllers, or manufacturing techniques our machinist comes up with for producing certain chassis components).  We're all people with full-time jobs, so the design cycle is expected to take a year or so.

More to come!

- Nick


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## dewetha (Jul 20, 2012)

sounds like a fun project look forward to some pics.


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## nick m (Jul 30, 2012)

A quick progress update for everyone with some photos!

We have settled on a display after much debate.  Some argued for a big and beautiful (and expensive) touch screen interface, while others defended a simple display with discreet washable buttons that wouldn't foul like a touchscreen when working with saucy fingers.  The touchscreen would have delayed development by another two months and bumped the MSRP by $150 due to the more expensive screen and requirement of an ARM processor.  So we're going with a 128x64 graphic dot-matrix LCD powered by a rock solid Atmel AVR micro-controller for displaying smoker menus and information like temperature, relative humidity, smoke box settings, and timers.  The code was developed from scratch, so we can customize the screen (including font, menu structures, images, etc.) however we need.  Very excited to present this portion of the smoker which should provide a user interface that is easy to enter settings and verify smoker conditions.  It goes beyond anything currently offered on the market in capability.  Also notice the LED backlighting which is bright and supports night use.













mksmoke001.jpg



__ nick m
__ Jul 30, 2012






After testing multiple temperature sensors, we have also settled on a very high quality platinum RTD that is made in the USA!  It features seamless stainless construction (all joints are welded) and will be accurate between 32 and 375 degrees fahrenheit to a single degree.  We chose RTD over similar quality thermocouples for their longevity without drift and superior accuracy.  The sensor will also be easily removable from the smoker wall by end users for thorough cleaning and inspection (this is a probe for the smoker, not one that is inserted into food).  We also finished the multi-stage electronic filter/amplifier that links the sensor to the micro-controller driving the display above (you can see the temperature in our workspace).  This was one of our more expensive choices, but we're drawing a line in the sand when it comes to putting junk components in this product.  It fell just a hair over budget for the temperature system, but we came a bit under budget with the display which balances out and keeps us on track for our projected direct-retail price.













mksmoke002.jpg



__ nick m
__ Jul 30, 2012






So a couple questions for the community here...

1. What size smoker would you like to see us develop for initial offer?  Do you prefer a box style or cylinder style?  If cylinder, would you like to see a vertically orientated cylinder or one on it's side?  We know restaurants would appreciate larger units and small working families might appreciate a compact unit that handles a week-night pork shoulder, but we'd like to find a middle ground that offers a practical size without bumping the price too high due to the amount of required materials and component sizes.  Actual dimensions, or just a description of how many racks of ribs / pork shoulders it should fit would be most appreciated!

2. We'd like to automate the smoke system so that you can set a smoke level for a set length of time and not have to worry about checking on it.  The most reliable way to do this (minimizing the possibility of a feed jam) is with uniformly sized wood - either pellets or pucks.  Proprietary pucks force you to buy from one company at exorbitant rates, so we're leaning towards a pellet-feed system that would allow you to source from whatever producer you like.  Key thing to remember is that these pellets are used for smoke only - heating of the smoker will actually be done electrically so pellet usage will be minimal.  How do you feel about pellets?  Are they a deal-breaker for you?  We have no plans to manufacture pellets ourselves, so this is a design option we're leaning towards for functionality.

Look forward to hearing your responses!  I'll be posting another update on our progress in a few weeks as more work is completed.

Yours,

- Nick


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## nozzleman (Jul 30, 2012)

Pellets work good in the amazen pellet smoker I have, I would very much prefer that over pucks. Ideally I would use chips but I understand the necessity of uniformity that the other provides. Large enough do to full size turkey, briskets, and ribs with no cutting. Minimum 3 shelves, 4 preferred.


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## rabbithutch (Jul 30, 2012)

Howdy, Nick!

In all sincerity, I wish you and your friends the best in creating a new and useful product.

You asked for input, so here goes.

Pellets are fine.  In fact, I would have suggested them if you had proposed something different.  I use them (from Todd Johnson) in an AMNPS in a MES40.  They work.  They do just what one expects.

I have no idea what it would add to product costs and I have little idea of the firmware required, but you would distinguish your product from others if you could add enough RAM to capture readings from all sensors for up to . . .  say 24 hours.  I'm a bit of an ancient geek (wrote my first mainframe code in the mid '60s) but that is not the reason that the iGrill intrigues me.  I would really like to know more about what happens over time in my smoker.

As for capacity, that's a tough design decision.  I bought the 40" MES because it was the best value (purchased from Sam's Club) for me at the time, but I have never used it to capacity and probably never will.  I think your price point is going to be a bit too high for the average consumer market (but what do I know); so I would suggest that you look to a capacity that would suit restaurants.

I think your LCD might be a problem and suggest that you run a bunch of bench trials in as close to real-life conditions as possible.  I think that it might be difficult to read in natural daylight conditions - especially when it is bright.  

As I said at the start, best of everything in your endeavors.


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 30, 2012)

I have a MES 40 as well and while it is a good size, 4 19" X 12" shelves they should be wider and most definitely deeper. Off the top of my head 24" X 18" would be nice with 6-8 inches between shelves . A Vertical Smoker is Space saving. No big deal on a big Deck or Patio but the benefit of Electric is it can be used in a Garage or as I do, on a second floor 6' X 8' Balcony outside my Apartment. My complex, like many, does not allow Propane or Charcoal fired anything on second or third floor Balconies. Heat recovery time is important but considering most power sources are 15A outlets 1200-1500W would be about a Max. It would be very popular and unlike any other unit, if you can generate smoke at Ambient Temp, no heat being generated, and also be able to get the chamber temp to the 300-325*F range. That way we can do Cheese to Poultry with Crisp Skin all in one unit. No other manufacturer, I have seen, has a Convection Smoker so a Fan would help with even heating and be a great selling point based on the popularity of Convection Ovens. At this point Remote Control and monitoring from a Phone and/or PC for storage and printing of Data, is essential. Smart phones don't do it all yet and us poor old guys have PCs but not necessarily have an iPhone or iPad. Grease management is important to avoid fires and easy clean up is a Plus. At least 2 built in Meat Probes would be nice although if not cost prohibitive, one Probe per Shelf is even better. That's all I can think of for now. I wish you and your team the best of luck and hopefully the unit can be priced well, fixed income sucks. I have tested and reviewed other equipment and would be interested in helping you guys some day as well...JJ


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## nick m (Jul 31, 2012)

*nozzleman* - Gotcha... _whole_ turkey, brisket, and ribs.

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*rabbithutch* - Glad to hear you're also okay with the use of pellets.  I often use wood chips and chunks cut from old apple trees I've dropped on our property, and I recognize the connection to the process that comes from using wood one harvests him/herself.  That said, smoke from chips and quality pellets produce BBQ results so close that I can't decipher between them in a blind taste test.  I'm glad that they seem to be accepted with little disagreement here.

Data logging seems to be a common request we've had from serious cooks.  One of the things we're aiming to eliminate as a natural consequence of this design is the need for logging data to examine variations in BBQ conditions.  Aside from miniscule oscillations that are inherent and unavoidable in all feedback control loops, the automatic controls and design will eliminate any substantial variations in temperature, humidity, or smoke that you might have looked for in the data log of a traditional smoker.  Of course part of the design process will involve loading the smoker in many different configurations and measuring control parameters such as rise time, settling time, overshoot, and peak time to determine the chambers transient and steady state response characteristics.  We plan to offer both a summary animated video detailing these findings as well as every graph and table compiled into a PDF for the hardcore analyst (I look for stuff like this and wish more companies would oblige).

Size is definitely a big question we're trying to sort out as you mentioned.  There is talk of producing two sizes, but we're not just making a container and throwing a heater in.  There will be significant work done once a rough size and shape is settled on to optimize performance.  Unfortunately repeating this for multiple initial offerings is not likely to occur.  Cost is obviously proportional to some degree with size, and both of these factors are likely to turn away those who want this product for home use once it passes a certain threshold.  We're trying to determine this cost/size threshold.  Similarly, some restaurant kitchens might not want a product that takes up an entire corner of the kitchen if they're only looking to add one or two BBQ items to their menu - say pulled pork sandwiches or chicken for a tasty chili.  We're not expecting large dedicated BBQ restaurants or your average consumer looking for a smoker to leap at this smoker.  We expect to receive the most interest from working middle-class BBQ fans that would love to have BBQ more often but just don't have the time to tend the cooker (like those of us on the design team!), and moderate sized restaurants that want to incorporate some smoked dishes or components to their menu without needing another full-time cook to tend a wood pile.  Of course a larger restaurant investing in a $10,000 smoker to cook _all_ of it's BBQ might consider ten $999 smokers all automated to perfectly cook specific menu items with different woods, temperatures, and humidity levels without any required monitoring.

Thanks for the tip on readability of the LCD under direct daylight illumination.  This is something often overlooked in consumer products (as you obviously know), and certain units have significant problems.  Of course this isn't unique to a GLCD like the one we're planning to use, it's often a problem for LCDs of all types especially high-density color displays with varying levels of contrast found in mobile phones, laptops, tablets, etc.  One of the arguments for the specific LCD we chose was it's superior readability in varying light conditions.  I grabbed a shot for you to see during lunch, which features the direct mid-day sun.  Some irony was involved as I laughed profusely trying to make out the controls on the LCD of my camera while shooting the GLCD (and please ignore the temperature reading as the RTD subsystem was disconnected).  As you can see it's quite crisp at this critical angle with the sun, and improves markedly at any other angle you point it.  The excellent contrast from the dot-matrix edges and light background make for the best readability of all the LCDs we tested.  The bright spot below the degrees fahrenheit symbol is actually a lens artifact from my camera, and isn't present when viewed by the naked eye.













mksmoke003.jpg



__ nick m
__ Jul 31, 2012






How do you feel about built-in probes for the food itself?  I'm curious what people have for opinions on this aspect.  Your comments have been much appreciated!

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*Chef JimmyJ* - Convection is definitely on the design list and will almost certainly be included for even distribution of heat, moisture, and smoke.  At the highest temperature settings it will also significantly help the development of crisp chicken skin.

The power requirements are not finalized yet, but I'm leaning towards requiring a 20 amp circuit.  There will be a lot of systems on board that require energy, and going with a 15 amp requirement will severely limit the heater system affecting transient response and possibly ultimate temperature when used in cold environments.  I'd rather have some people not be able to use the product and be disappointed than have those same people purchase a smoker design which under-performs and be _really_ disappointed know what I mean?

We talked about a remote control, but thought it would be more of a gimmick than of actual value.  The point of the automation is that you don't have to worry about checking on anything, you're free to entertain your friends/family/customers, work on the house, watch a movie, prepare other food, etc.  The smoker will automatically stop smoking, reduce it's humidity level, drop to 140 degrees, and sound a multi-tone notification (which will have various settings) when it completes it's programmed cycle.  We feel the remote would largely just tell you what you already know, and add money to the cost of the smoker (in addition to batteries!).

The food probes are still being researched.  I haven't had great luck from food probes on flexible leads in the past concerning longevity (I usually get 12 months or less out of them), and I'm hesitant to include anything that has a good chance of kicking the bucket after limited use.  It's not very difficult at this point to tie in multiple probes through a sealed port in the wall of the smoker, but the probes and leads themselves concern me.  One possibility would be to have integral ports in the smoker walls at each rack level that tie to the electronics and offer probes with attached leads as an accessory (perhaps include one with each smoker).  This would keep the price down, offer expandability for those who do need it, and provide a replacement path for probes that have failed or drifted out of bounds.  I'd be interested on your (and others) opinions here.

I'd love to hear more on what you have to say about grease management and clean-up.  What are some design features you have found helpful and what features have you found irritating or downright dangerous?  We're going with the general attempt at minimal seams, easy disassembly where practical, and as few tight corners as possible for easy clean-up.  We're planning on all stainless for interior cooking spaces and surfaces.  Very interested in your (and others) opinions on these matters.

Thank you for your thoughts Chef JimmyJ.


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 31, 2012)

Probably the best means of managing the bulk of the Grease is a drip tray that can be placed below the meat but above the Heat source. This is where sufficient shelf size and Convection come into play. A Rack of Baby Back or Spare ribs can run 16-18 inches long and 6-8 inches wide so with two racks per shelf the Drip pan needs to be at least 18" X 16" X 1.5". So an interior/shelf dimension of 24" X 18" becomes critical so heat can circulate past the drip pan. There will be some spatter and moisture that will condense on the walls and door and run down, a small angled strip of metal can guide this minimum amount of liquid into a removable 1/2" deep pan that covers the entire floor of the smoker. The only problem I foresee with a Programmed Smoke/Cook is not every piece of meat is consistent. Beyond the fact that a Pork Butt can run anywhere from 3 to 12 Lbs, differing amounts of fat and connective tissue make every Butt unique. How do you have a single program setting for Pork Butt when three Butts of identical weights will finish at very different times. Unless I am missing some thing Internal Temp needs to be the deciding factor which brings us back to multiple probes. An alarm/ message to a iPhone or Computer can say, Butt 1 complete at 205*F, Butt 2 at 200*F and Butt 3 at 195*F. As it stands now at Smoker temps between 225 and 250*F a pork Butt will take very close to 2 hours/Lb with a 2 hour pad/holding Rest. At Smoker temps between 250 and 275*F the cook time drops to 1.5 Hrs/Lb still 2 hour wiggle room and above 275*F the cook time gets closer 1 Hr/Lb. We have not even begun to discuss Packer Beef Briskets that are made up of two different Muscles with completely different Densities and Fat content... Let us ponder this awhile and we can continue...JJ


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

This is an interesting project! 
IMHO, it's overkill for barbecue, I'm biased toward stick or charcoal burners for bbq and wouldn't personally be interested in it if it's geared just toward that..... BUT, this kind of affordable accurate control is sorely needed for sausage making and meat curing!



Nick M said:


> What size smoker would you like to see us develop for initial offer?


At least 30 lb. capacity.



Nick M said:


> Do you prefer a box style or cylinder style?


I like the following SausageMaker design, it's easier to insert smoke sticks.
















Nick M said:


> How do you feel about pellets?


 
Pellets make the most sense.

~Martin


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## rabbithutch (Jul 31, 2012)

I like the idea of temp probe ports at each rack level with multiples being accessories, but please include at least one.  I frequently have more meat than I do thermo probes and I don't like opening up the MES for instant reading probes.  Having the ability to use 4 or more probes (a port on each side of each wide shelf, for instance) would be a great feature.

I thought that the idea of a remote on the MES was overkill until I got into smoking.  While I'm not thrilled with their design because it is too easy to turn the smoker off, I think that remote monitoring is a must.  I use my Maverick ET-73 for this.  I don't use it to control the smoker.  I use it to monitor the IT progress and to let me know if smoker temp falls out of range.  A power interruption left unattended might lead to spoiled meat.  I don't want to have to go to the smoker location outside in the Texas heat to check on unit.  Come to think of it, you could keep your costs down without a remote, but I would advise any potential customers to buy a remote unit (eg, Maverick, iGrill or something) because knowing where you are is reassuring and the sign of a thoughtful cook.

Chef Jimmiy J's idea of a convection fan got me to thinking about whether or not that idea is compatible with smoking.  Wouldn't it pull the smoke out of the chamber too fast for meats to be affected by it?  I'm not a trained cook, but it sounds counter intuitive.  Maybe your product could be made more versatile by adding a convection fan as an accessory for using the unit as a convection oven when not smoking.   I know too little about this to speak even with conviction.

Looks like you've got the LCD thing well covered.


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 31, 2012)

Rabbithutch, The Convection fan gets mounted some where near the bottom of the unit to move heat and smoke around " inside " the unit the Fan has Zero effect on the exhaust. The result is Very even temps shelf to shelf and more smoke contact with the meat not less. Cook time is also speeded up because more heat energy contacts the meat from circulation...JJ


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## nick m (Jul 31, 2012)

Hey Chef JimmyJ,

A few assumptions are made and a couple guidelines must be followed for the automatic setting which admittedly will not result in great BBQ if the smoker is loaded with multiple cuts of meat that are _drastically_ different in size.  I'll briefly discuss how we plan to have an automated setting for multiple cuts of the same type without a tangle of probes in the smoker.

A sphere has the least amount of surface area for a given volume of any shape.  Since the rate at which a heated volume rises in temperature increases with it's surface area, a sphere of food at a given weight (say 5 pounds) will take longer to cook than any other shape of equivalent weight.  It follows that by recording the time it takes to smoke a range of pork butts from 1-lb spheres to 13-lb spheres we can determine the _maximum_  time a given pork butt will require to smoke.  (As an aside, the 13-lb spheres obviously don't exist, and will be simulated by using multiple cuts and transglutaminase to chemically bond them).  This table of values allows us to adjust the cook time (subtracting a preset from the maxima for assumption of typical imperfect spheres found in grocery stores and at butcher counters) and provide a smoke time that will adequately smoke every butt in the smoker based on the user providing the weight of the largest piece.  Obviously it will be advised that you don't put in a whole pork butt along with a half pork butt as the smaller of the two will obviously over cook.  As for variations in cook-time due to differences in collagen content, using a meat probe to determine when two otherwise equivalent cuts of meat are _perfectly_ finished throughout wouldn't tell you the difference aside from a general approximation unless you logged sustained internal temperatures at the collagen break-down point for each piece.  Even then, variations in where those tissues were located in the shoulder relative to the probe would negate any such peak in the spread of certainty.  For a smoker with 4 butts or 6-8 butt halves this quickly approaches the end of the world (haha) with half a dozen probes and the required arrays of data to display.  This setup might be a war horse for competitive BBQ giving higher precision results (and could certainly be incorporated into the manual/custom settings we're discussing above), but I'm assuming it's a bit overkill for a mode which is supposed to offer a high ratio of quality to effort (i.e. make it easy).

So load the smoker with roughly equivalent single cuts of meat, select automatic, select what you're cooking, enter the heaviest weight from the butcher or package, and hit start.  Given the stable temperature/smoke/humidity, the result should be quite good even if you have a few degrees variance in final temperature from cut to cut.  Personally I might be sensitive to this difference if it was a steak or chicken breast, but for collagen-laden cuts like pork shoulder, ribs, brisket, chicken legs, or items like almonds it's likely to be largely unnoticed so long as the minimum desired temperature has been reached (guaranteed by the "sphere" data above, uniformity of the smoke chamber conditions, and user input).  We also plan to use the low and slow method on automatic which is much more forgiving from my experience when it comes to slight over-cooking of cuts that are a bit too small.  The smoker will account for periods when people must open the door by stopping the timer and not beginning again until the temperature deficit is closed.  If a condition occurs where the door is left open for a sustained period of time it will sound chimes, and eventually exit automatic mode requiring the food to be finished on manual settings.

The custom/manual mode is where the probes and highly configurable options would come into play.  I'm sure there will be hardcore fans of custom/manual mode who will never touch automatic, but we want to keep the automatic mode simple and easy for people who are looking for that ease and simplicity.  I'm interested in developing the custom/manual features more though!

Interesting on the transmission of data to a smart-phone.  This would be a cool feature but take much more development time, as we would need to develop applications for android and apple devices and then work in the communication hardware (e.g. Bluetooth) which would also increase end cost.  I'll keep it on our list of suggestions that I've taken charge of, but unless overwhelming requests for a system like this come in (and we think it would be seen as an extra $50-$100 on MSRP customer would accept) it will be tough to incorporate.

- Nick


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## nick m (Jul 31, 2012)

Oops... called to dinner by my wife - I'll read  the other posts later tonight and get back sometime tomorrow.

You guys are great!


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 31, 2012)

Well I guess testing will prove out. Your theory is sound but there is quite a few threads here that have crazy extreme cook times on various size Butts. This is going to be fun to follow...JJ


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## rabbithutch (Jul 31, 2012)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Rabbithutch, The Convection fan gets mounted some where near the bottom of the unit to move heat and smoke around " inside " the unit the Fan has Zero effect on the exhaust. The result is Very even temps shelf to shelf and more smoke contact with the meat not less. Cook time is also speeded up because more heat energy contacts the meat from circulation...JJ



So, it's like stirring the air to get an even distribution.  Makes sense.  Like I said, I know nothing about how they work.


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## wjordan52 (Aug 1, 2012)

Hi Nick. Your project sounds very exciting and I will be sure to follow your progress. Per your request, I would like to throw in my 2 cents worth. My preference of smokers is vertical electric. Electric because it allows me to smoke more often without much prep, which suits my odd work schedule. And vertical because, in my opinion, having the heat source below the smoke chamber provides the greatest efficiency. Currently I'm using a heavily modified round vertical unit (used to be a horizontal SFB). The current mods are "Phase 1", as I'm working on a more permanent version utilizing 55 gal drums and ideas from using the first model. It also has a door on the side for easier loading/unloading. After using it for a few months, these are a few of the features I think need to be considered on a new professionally built unit of this type:

1. My preference would be a vertical electric unit, with doors for access instead of a top-loader. Opening the door obviously dumps the heat from the smoke chamber; I'm no mathematician, but I think more than a square design. There would have to be a good deal of thermal mass to aid in temperature recovery time.

2. Since my door opening is not as wide as the round grates I cannot load the racks with food before placing them into the smoker. Wings, for example, have to be placed on cooking grates one at a time, greatly extending 'open door' time. I suggest creating two doors; one small to allow instant reads, viewing, mopping, etc., and a second larger door that increases the opening to nearly half of the smoker, permitting grates to be held flat and loaded quickly into the smoke chamber.

3. The smoke generator needs to be below the heat element and shielded as well as possible from the heat source. I use an AMNPS and pellets with great success, and personally think pellets would be the logical choice for smoke. I have found that thermal shielding is necessary to keep the heat source from prematurely igniting pellets, however your design may eliminate this issue. The smoke generator needs a separate chamber with an opening/duct to the smoke chamber the same size as the exhaust. The access door to this chamber should also serve as the draft control for the smoker.

4. Again for efficiency, the smoker should be surrounded by an outer cover. This will provide a space for insulation, and also greatly reduce the effect of wind and low ambient temperatures.

5. I would guess that there are more different desires and thoughts for temperature monitoring (both smoke chamber and food) than can be accommodated by one design. Therefore I would suggest one centrally located smoke chamber sensor for the control unit is sufficient. With that said, I think some provision for the user to insert their own sensor(s) should be provided at each shelf level. Also a clever way to route food probe leads to the outside would be a nice touch. The user would use their temperature monitoring device of choice, which answers the desire for remote monitoring.

6. I agree with Chef Jimmy about the ability to smoke meat by time alone. My suggestion would be to provide at least one food probe, and in the controller add the ability to cook to temperature if desired. I really don't see how to automate cook time for different cuts of meat, or a load of altogether different foods (I often mix a meat and a vegetable or two). You can make the unit completely automatic for one or two of the same cut of meat, but the user will have to take on more responsibility as more is added to the smoke chamber.

7. My smoking chamber is 16" in diameter. It's also 34" in length, however only ~24" is usable cooking area. I suggest a 24" diameter and 36" usable height for the smoke chamber. The heat element and any other operational hardware would have to be in addition to those dimensions. Having an efficient design should negate the worry of 'wasted space'.

8. I like the idea of a convection fan as long as it's configured to mix the air inside without affecting the draft any more than necessary. It should also be easily accessible for maintenance.

9. This hasn't been brought up, but I think the entire unit needs to be mounted on wheels. They need to be of a suitable diameter to make them capable of rolling fairly easily over rough or uneven ground, because not all users will use it on level and smooth surfaces. Obviously they would have to incorporate a height adjustment to facilitate leveling the unit.

My ideas are for my 'perfect' smoker, and reflect some of what has already been mentioned. I look forward to seeing your progress and wish you the greatest of success.


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 1, 2012)

Nick M said:


> Hey Chef JimmyJ,
> 
> A few assumptions are made and a couple guidelines must be followed for the automatic setting which admittedly will not result in great BBQ if the smoker is loaded with multiple cuts of meat that are _drastically_ different in size.  I'll briefly discuss how we plan to have an automated setting for multiple cuts of the same type without a tangle of probes in the smoker.
> 
> ...



It will be interesting to see how you're able to make this work, in my experience the average bbqer is far more likely to simultaneously smoke several things of varying sizes rather than, say, 3-4 for butts all the same size. I would think that probes would be of more use to most folks .

~Martin


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 1, 2012)

Here are some readouts from a very sophisticated Koch commercial smoker.
Sure with I had some of these options available to me in an affordable sausage making and meat curing smoker.
The monitoring of internal temperature is essential is this set-up.













http://ultrasourceusa.com/index.php/equipment/product_category/category/smokehouses

~Martin


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## rowdyrawhide (Aug 1, 2012)

This a cool idea.  

Pellets are good, another idea here would be to contact Todd and see if he would entertain the idea of contracting with you on the final product and just use AMNPS for your smoker instead of reinventing the wheel.  The only downside is it is not automated which may not work into your design, just a thought.  

I too would like to see a some type of temp monitoring from my laptop, tablet, or smart phone.  I am not very smart when it comes to this type of "networking" but it seems like it would be possible to run this through a home wifi maybe, maybe and app for the smart phone.  Thinking out loud here, maybe even use your own proprietary remote display that can use both IR or the wifi network as transmission capabilities and have a usb port to plug into your computer to track the smoker info using a software program downloadable from a cd rom or your own website to keep cost down.  The reason I mention both IR an wifi is because my ET 732 transmits great everywhere in my house but when I go into the back of my basement (my workshop) I lose transmission but I have wifi at both my smoker location and my workshop, wifi would also allow for multiple readout locations if an app were available for my iphone and ipad.  If these options would be too expensive then maybe it would be possible to offer in an accessory via an expansion port or something.  However, I think if you are already attempting to automate everything else this would be a minimal cost but expected option to the demographic that would be purchasing a smoker of this design.  Again this is my opinion as a consumer, not a marketer.

I am assuming the auto shutoff would be an optional mode, if wanted to just set my smoke chamber for a certain temp and no time limit then I could I assume.  If you could also do a push button "warming or hold" mode like the auto hold mode you are talking about after the automatic smoke as well that would pretty cool.....this would be to hold finished meats in until serving.

hopefully these are new comments, I read the entire post and think these are fresh points.


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## nick m (Aug 1, 2012)

*DiggingDogFarm* - Looks like a little house, haha.  Interesting top-load feature, but probably not along the lines of what we're aiming to produce quality wise (at least by appearance).  I'm with you on the ability to load sausages however.  I think it's important that there be sufficient height to permit sausages of some length to be hung while also providing the width for a large Turkey or Full Brisket.  I don't think the final design will be anywhere near as tall as the Sausage Maker unit or feature a hinged top, but accommodating sausage makers to some degree will be a must.

The automatic mode would definitely be for one type of cut either on it's own or in multiples.  This would satisfy many week-night dinners, single-item menu selections for restaurants, and folks who are having large get-togethers and need to make say 9 racks of ribs.  The HMI screens you posted from the commercial smoke controller illustrate one of the beauties of automatic programs - the ability to wrap multiple stages into the push of a button.  Lets take baby-back ribs as an example.  The program could be written to low-level smoke at 225 for 2.5 hours with moderate humidity to get a nice deep flavor in the meat then automatically stop smoking, increase the heat to 300 or so for an hour with high humidity to melt the connective tissues.  Next it might vent the moisture, drop the temperature to 140 and prompt the cook to apply sauce.  After doing so, the smoker could bring back some smoke with no added humidity at maximum (dry) temperature for 15 minutes to caramelize the sauce and get it tacky before dropping to a holding temp of 140 with low moisture addition to prevent drying out (along with a complete chime).  The user-end would simply involve rubbing the ribs, loading the smoker, making a couple menu selections and hitting start.  3.5 hours later they would brush sauce on, hit start, and then have a nice pile of moist ribs being held warm and moist for family/friends/customers (or themselves!).  Granted it's unlikely you would win a BBQ competition with this automatic method, but it certainly simplifies a traditional 3-2-1 preparation and would probably be attractive to busy families and kitchens/bars looking to offer a tasty appetizer.

I'm also willing to bet they don't have probes in each and every sausage or cut of meat in room-sized smokers - they probably use a model and tables based on averages to write and operate those programs.  Again, they're unlikely to win a competition against an artisan being critical over each piece - but I bet plenty of tasty food is cooked in the smokers that system controls.  You can also see how cluttered a display even of that size gets when you try to show everything occurring for a multi-stage smoke process.  The automatic mode of our design will accomplish the same task at a smaller volume for a tenth of the price in a beautiful box (we plan on it anyways).  Plus you can go manual for mixed loads and competition quality product.

-----

*wjordan52* - Thanks for the detailed post!  I'll jump from point to point.

This smoker is going to separate the main chamber (which will contain the primary electric heat source) from the smoke generation system.  A single exterior chassis will contain both, although the chambers will be insulated from one another.  A specially designed auger (which is underway) turned by a micro-controlled stepper will feed pellets from an upper hopper to a special lower "smoke pot" with it's own electric starter element.  The "pot" will be heavily "perforated" in it's geometry which will allow ash to fall below into a removable bin (aided by the impact of falling fresh pellets).  I'm being vague about the "pot" design because it's not actually a pot, nor is it made of perforated metal - but it will behave as such (need to keep some secrets until product release!).  Positive pressure provided by a variable speed pump will force the smoke into the primary chamber.  The convection fan will then evenly distribute the smoke throughout.  The main chamber vent is still a jumble of ideas and drawings, as it will need to be intimately tied to the moisture generation/control system which is also in it's infancy.  In this way cold (relative) smoking will be possible, and temperature/smoke can be controlled independently and automatically (including multiple start/stops if needed).

Rest assured, we would never design a primary chamber that has racks wider than the door opening.  Thermal mass is going to be kept fairly low, as there will be times when cooling down the smoker will be just as important.  We're going to rely upon insulation, a high-output heat source, and quality control loop engineering.  Keeping the lead out will also keep shipping costs down as we plan to over-engineer many mechanical aspects such as hinges which are going to add weight.

Due to the convection system and shielding of direct radiation, we will be able to place the main temperature sensor in a location which will not interfere with the food and reduces the likelihood of it being covered with spatter.  Of course it will be easily removable for cleaning or (hopefully never required) replacement.  The initial chamber prototype will include many probes to verify the uniformity.

The manual/custom settings were always intended to be used for smoking by user set parameters (time, temperature, smoke level, humidity level) that you set and forget.  We're actively discussing the food probes, specifically the multiple rack-level ports which will accept accessory probes and activate additional features in the display/interface including probe temperature thresholds as set parameters.  The possibility of an accessory remote monitoring system is also under early discussion.  Since not everyone needs it, we would keep it an optional accessory.  This is all based on a short chat I had with another team member today, so nothing here is finalized.  It may also delay release of the smoker an additional few months past our estimate to make time for testing.  In the end it would still increase the cost a bit, as every smoker will still require the receiver/transmitter.

So a vote for 24"x36" useable space - gotcha',  One hope is to include a large glass window for viewing.  It's inefficient (although not so if it keep people from opening the door!), but satisfies some of the artistic design we're aiming for too.  This is only possible if we have a flat door, as the price of curved glass is way outside of our enclosure budget.  So it's likely that the smoker will be rectangular - at least at the door.

Wheels.

-----

I know there are more posts and things I skipped but have to get ready for work (I'm on shifts).  Thank you everyone for your continued input - I'll be back tomorrow.


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## nick m (Aug 5, 2012)

Quick update!

We're going to aim for nine cubic feet of useable space - 24" wide, 18" deep, and 36" tall.

Heating element is going to be 1500W.

The convection fan and element will both be located on the back wall behind a "plate" which pulls air into the fan, over the circular element, and out along guided paths parallel to the back-wall.  This is similar to some foreign convection oven designs.  The entire space will be useable from the floor to just below the ceiling, no complex drip systems (just a full-size removable pan in the base), even heat distribution, simple clean-up, and reduced fire danger.  Speaking of clean-up, we're discussing a clean feature which will peg the heat and moisture systems to help break down any build-up to the point where it can be easily wiped away.

The design is going to require some custom castings, so our machinist and yours truly are currently putting together a micro-scale foundry which will support this phase.  It will allow us to make fast alterations during the repeated design/measurement phase.  An insulated chamber fitted with test instrumentation will be fabricated soon as well.

We'll be posting some concept CAD drawings/animations, photos, and test data over the next few weeks.  This phase is expected to take some time, but there should be plenty of tid-bits to share.

Thanks for reading and offering suggestions!

- Nick


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 5, 2012)

Nick M said:


> The design is going to require some custom castings, so our machinist and yours truly are currently putting together a micro-scale foundry which will support this phase.



Cool, I used to have a few small foundries.
Propane and charcoal powered for aluminum, etc and some small cupolas for iron.


~Martin


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 6, 2012)

It was fun Participating...JJ


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## ribwizzard (Aug 7, 2012)

I think your marketing strategy is off. I believe the market would be stronger for a small simple smoker that the average family would use to do a small pork butt or a slab of ribs. Think how many units the Showtime Rotisserie set it and forget it unit sold.

Just my thoughts.


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## sound1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Loving the read on this. Sounds like you have it covered and being able to use standard Hotel/steam table pans will be a big plus. I am a bit concerned about the convection fan. Even the high end smoke/cook/hold ovens have a problem with the sealed fan bearings getting gummed up over time. make the area easy to access. Some Alto-Shaam smoke/cook/hold type units make this next to impossible.

1500 watts..Nice, shouldn't require special wiring for the customer, with adequate safety devices, UL approvals should be relatively easy.

Cold Smoke??

Sounds like you guys are having fun with trying to design an all in one machine...I know it is fun for us to dream about it.


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## nick m (Aug 9, 2012)

Hello,

Lot's of research, experimenting, and discussion going on related to the design of the convection system - I expect this to go on for at least 2-3 more weeks.

-----

Ribwizzard - While the smoker size will certainly affect the final price, the difference between a smaller unit and the size we're proposing will only be a matter of $100 or less.  Around 70% of the projected cost to build is tied up in the systems that are largely independent of size (such as the electronics, fan, smoke/moisture systems, etc.).  We're not expecting general consumers who are in the market for an entry-level smoker at the $200 or $300 level to consider this product.  While reducing build cost (and sale price) is certainly being considered at every step of the way, we're not looking to see this product mass-produced and found next to $99 Char-Broil grills at Home Depot.  The quality components we're sourcing and fabricating simply can't be purchased at prices or volumes that permit this, and quality is more important to this design than price (although both are important).  I understand this eliminates the chance of getting rich off QVC sales, but thats not the intent we've headed into this project with.

-----

Sound1 - I think we're set on the 24" x 18" dimensions for that reason, although depending on performance with the 1500W element we might adjust the 36" down.  We're starting with that height and hopefully things will turn out well.

I hear you on the convection fan concerns.  We're currently eye-ball deep in this portion of the design, and it's consuming all of our attention.  While it might be simple to purchase a unit direct from Wolf / Bosch / GE and point fingers if it fails, we're going to select or fabricate each component of the convection system to maximize performance and durability.  This includes the motor, shaft/coupling, mounting bracket / hardware, seals, and fan blade.  Obviously this process is intimately involved with the main chamber, so it must also accommodate a removable panel that is easy to clean and properly contoured for airflow and heat distribution.  We also look forward to testing how well the high heat/moisture clean-cycle is able to remove residues and build-up.  Of course the fan blade itself will also be easily removable and entirely stainless for clean-up.

As mentioned earlier, we're designing for a standard 20 amp service outlet with a maximum continuous draw of 16 amps to keep with National Electric Code rules.  The UL listing may or may not occur, as it's largely irrelevant for our projected consumers and the large fee will simply increase the cost of the product.  This is a mobile device that won't require an inspector to sign off on in commercial situations, and most home consumers are not going to be using this indoors.  While this may limit large volume purchases from potential government or corporate customers, thats something we're okay with to start.

Cold smoking is definitely an option we're aiming for with a smoke system that is separate and insulated from the main chamber.  Hope to hear more from you as we progress, and thanks for joining in on the thread!


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 9, 2012)

Here is something for discussion...Lots of guys find their Meats are, "Just not quite right " until several smokes take place, then the Magic of a Well Seasoned Smoker starts producing Amazing Q...Is your Self Cleaning option going to clean the Seasoning off the walls and door? I suppose a Once a Year deep clean would be an option to keep sensors in good condition...Something to think about...JJ


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## nick m (Aug 9, 2012)

Hey Chef JimmyJ,

It will definitely be a user-selected option to run the cycle, although depending on how well it works we will likely advise people to use it if they regularly use (either on automatic or custom) a cycle which is high-humidity and high-temperature as part of a cooking process.  I suppose worst case scenario is you don't use it for a long time and then cook with the humidity and temps up filling the removable base tray with goo... =D


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## nick m (Aug 23, 2012)

Hello all!

It's been a couple weeks and I thought that I might give a quick update as to where the team is at.  We've been experimenting with various convection systems - namely torture testing units from Wolf, Jenn-Air, GE, and Bosch (it's been an expensive couple weeks too!).  We're learning what works and what doesn't, shortcuts that (even "High End") manufacturers use to accomplish tasks such as increasing durability and reducing cost, as well as what can be accomplished when we build units by hand in small volumes rather than mass-manufacture.  Quite a bit has been discovered, and we have an elegant design that is slowly taking shape.

Our design is going to feature a dual in-line fan like high-end commercial stoves which has a primary fan in the heated chamber with a secondary fan mounted closer to the drive (outside the chamber) which provides cooling to increase the motor durability.  This isn't as much of a problem with a smoker that should top out in the 300F-400F range, but we're adopting these premium design elements along with an insulation layer to maximize performance and life.

While we've completed some CAD work and have a prototype running, we haven't settled on a motor yet (hopefully later this week) and personally I want to get that completed and assembled before we do any showing off.  As it stands, the primary fan will be removable via a simple set screw, while the entire heater/fan/motor assembly will also be easily removable as a single unit.

Should have some pictures, animations, and possible video by the end of the month.


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## scarbelly (Aug 23, 2012)

Excited to see the prototype


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## nick m (Sep 5, 2012)

Quick Update.

We're still here!  Working on procuring some equipment right now, along with discussing design elements that will permit us to manufacture certain components economically - lot's of boring stuff that is necessary before moving forward.

Also, our progress will be slowing a bit as I'm back in school for my final 6 credits to graduate, and our machinist is taking some time to learn some new skills as well.  Aiming to get the convection system finished later this fall.

- Nick


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## sound1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Any Updates??


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## ironhorse07 (Oct 25, 2012)

I just stumbled on to this thread and would like to add my 2 cents worth.

As far as the controller: I use my electric alot to make sausage and would really like to see a PID that could do time/ temp/ IT steps like the plug and play from Auber for the Bradley


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## nick m (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks for the posts, I know I haven't had a chance to update everyone as of late.

Finishing up my engineering degree this semester (in addition to my full-time job), so my time has been gobbled up between those two duties.  Some discussion here and there along with some more planning for the smoke generator, but not expecting to get much more accomplished before mid-December when classes end and I have more time to dedicate to the team.  Aiming to get the heating/convection system finalized next.  Lot's of measurements and cook chamber design to get into.  We're also discussing more chassis design aspects such as the glass door (to allow viewing without opening the door and retarding cooking), and manufacturing the stainless chassis components in a way that economically makes sense.

Ironhorse07 - Our proprietary controller will indeed be PID based for stable operation, but also go beyond this with custom algorithms and a chassis design that work hand in hand.


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## danresqman (Dec 15, 2012)

This is an awesome project, have you and your designers heard of kickstarter?  this is the perfect project for it. It allows you to get backers and produce a real product on a real level. once you get the details mostly hammered out it would be an awesome forum to get the word out.

have you consider the Bradley smoke generator? i know it commits you to disc vs pellets, but at least the main features of the design are well executed and would be a great muse to consider..

Can't wait to hear more about it...


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## nick m (Dec 18, 2012)

danresqman - Thanks!  We hope to keep people posted on the progress as we have, and eventually we'll have a website up to go with our registered domain names.  We're definitely planning to go pellets, as these are the easiest to feed in increments that will allow us to start/stop smoking as needed.  It also frees the user to use the pellet brand they like, and even make custom blends for interesting flavor profiles.  I've checked out Kickstarter before, and it's an interesting concept.  The one big negative is the mandatory time frames you must set.  This is important for businesses looking for investment, but runs against our philosophy of taking our time to do everything right.  We don't want to feel rushed in developing any components, as this tends to lead to compromise and the need for drastic revisions.  At it's core this is a project for a group of individuals with certain skills who have full time jobs, rather than a design that must reach certain sales to pay the bills.  This is to be the realization of ideas first, and a revenue generator second.  Horrible business model, but one I think certain people identify with who will likely be our customers.

-----

So finally finished my bachelors degree in Electrical Engineering!  I was an older student (now 30), so it was both difficult and rewarding balancing a full-time job, school, family, working on the house, etc. etc...  But this means more time in the near future for getting back on board with the smoker project and enjoying some great food!  Our machinist has also enjoyed the "break" (read delay) I've imposed on progress, but it was a necessary sacrifice.

We're starting by getting some equipment for fast metal working over the next couple months that will enable rapid prototyping all in one location.  Plasma cutter, sheet-metal brakes, and a hydraulic press with some specific dies that will make the most of the free time we have.  My wife has signed on for us to take over the basement and install a hood vent.  I also need to wire some larger 240V/30A outlets for equipment.  Eventually this area may become the first staging point for manufacture with CNC functionality to keep costs down.

So we're working on getting a dedicated workshop up rather than ferrying parts to one another's homes to use various equipment.  Not exciting I know, but a necessary step.


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## daveomak (Dec 18, 2012)

Nick morning....  Great thread.. I know you guys will make it.....   A smoker that works and need no mods.... Tested and proven by folks that smoke foods..... unheard of....  Except for Todd's AMNS products....     I'm giving my congrats now 'cause I know it will be successful....   Dave...


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## fagesbp (Dec 18, 2012)

So you will be incorporating a smoke detector to automate smoke generation along with humidity and temperature automation? Sounds like a pellet poopers dream. I'm considering catering in the distant future and I think this would be ideal as a low cost cooker.  I would definitely like to see some web based wifi monitoring and controls. Seems like that could be achieved fairly econonmically considering it's the same technology in cheapo android cell phones and tablets. Control your cooker from anywhere you have internet access.


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## nick m (Jan 4, 2013)

Hey fagesbp - Temperature will definitely be automated.  Probably won't have a smoke detector, just variable pellet feed rates which can be set manually or controlled as part of an automated cook process (varying intensity and on/off for different cycles set by the user or controller).  The moisture detection we're still looking into, as sensor effectiveness and reliability will be of the utmost importance.  Without a doubt the unit will feature a boiler with steam injection, but whether this feature is full on / off (offering moisture saturation), or variable with a feedback controlled vent coordinated with the heater and boiler has yet to be determined.  The latter would be much more complex, and needs to be researched further.  The sensor quality and maintenance requirements are the largest concern here.

Some form of wifi based control might be offered as an accessory down the road.  I'm designing the electronics, and plan to make provisions for an easily accessible internal port that will receive an optional module that can be popped in linking the smoker via wifi to a home network.  Still in it's infancy at the moment.

-----

Still trying to acquire a centralized work area for prototyping and testing... hopefully by the end of February.


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## scootermagoo (Jan 4, 2013)

I would prefer to see a smoke ring.  Might not be important to most, but it is to me.  That is the essence of BBQ, if you ask me.


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## nick m (Mar 2, 2013)

Back in action working on the smoker!  Still working on fabrication logistics, but we've settled on a temporary solution.  Invested in a nice new Hypertherm plasma cutter and sheet brake for sizing/shaping aluminum and stainless for the prototyping phase at my house.  TIG services will be supplied by another member of the team until I have adequate space carved out in my basement with induced-draft air-exchange.  Going to hopefully start early mock-ups for the smoker to begin measuring temperature variation within the unit along with some of the dynamics such as recovery time with various heat sources.

One road block we're working on is cooking chamber insulation... lots of ideas flying around that we need to test.  For the most part we're going to be building the frame from aluminum and everything else with stainless (excluding the glass door of course).

Just thought I'd give an update since it's been so long.

-----

ScooterMagoo - Of course smoldering wood pellets won't produce as many oxides of nitrogen as a roaring fire, but our intention is to burn the pellets with some smoke not just smolder.  At the same time, beginning the cooking process with a tightly controlled cold-smoke with high moisture levels will keep the meat moist and soaking up the available NO2 (and smoke flavor) longer. Now I need to test this theory to see how well it holds water, but at least on the flavor level I know this is true from experience.  Of course the "smoke ring" has nothing to do with the smoke, as you can get a beautiful "smoke ring" by slow-cooking a piece of myoglobin-rich meat in a propane-fired grill (which produces plenty of NO2), or even in an indoor electric oven after rubbing/marinating the meat with a mixture that includes nitrate/nitrite-rich pink salt (I believe some meat tenderizers also have low levels of nitrate/nitrites).

I hear you on the smoke ring though, especially brisket... It's like a meat rainbow


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## sound1 (Mar 6, 2013)

Glad to hear the project is moving forward..THX for the update


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## scootermagoo (Mar 6, 2013)

LOL, "meat rainbow".  LOVE IT!! 

Skittles slogan is "taste the rainbow".  This meat rainbow sounds more like it, if you ask me!


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## goingcamping (Mar 6, 2013)

Nick, very cool project! Based on what I know (not much) I'd love to give some feedback and insight.

I recently purchased (at an auction) a Carter-Hoffman CH18 Cook and Hold. It's a 208v/30a/5,000/1ph stainless steel constructed unit (Commercial Sized can cook up to 364lbs at once). Once I got it home I converted it too a smoker...

HERE"S THE LINK FOR THE COOKER

HERE'S THE LINK FOR THE SMOKER ADDITION

This is a high end unit and has all the elements (4 total), circulating fans (2), cooling fans (2) and controls that take all the guess work out of the "cooking" portion of the smoke. I then simply added Amazen Products 18" ANMTS as my smoke source (based on my elevation and use, it's what was recommended?!). I added the 1 1/4" pipe ells out the top-side for venting and 1" pipe out the bottom for fresh air intake. The CH18 has all the electronics up top in a self contained removable portion that rests on top of the cabinet (literally can be lifted off w/o any issue). The cooker portion uses gently blowing fans to circulate the air inside the cabinet by blowing down a rear plenum which is fitted with vent holes and then circulates air/smoke/heat on the food. The added smoke is captured as it rises and is taken into the circulating fans and is also circulated through-out the cooking chamber. I lucked into an almost maintenance free smoker/cooker. It functions far better than I anticipated.

But...
Personally, I would rather have an all-in-one unit (heat and smoke source all controlled by one controller/heat source) Having the ability to "cook" without smoking is nice, but not why I purchased my unit then added the smoker portion. Not sure if it been said or suggested. Is there any way you could make the pellets self-feed onto a smoking pan? The Bradley smoker's pellets are pricy and burn relatively quickly (20mins/puck); I think they're a great idea, but because the "attachment" only brings smoke to the table, the AMNTS/AMNPS are simpler units that produce excellent smoke. Having a gravity fed hopper for pellets is a far superior idea in my mind as they are more readily available and cheaper to operate?


Make it a pellet fed (possibly heated like the Traeger's, GMG, DAK's etc...using an electrode that burns the pellets and heat is controlled by fans and amount of fuel added. No electrical elements!!

The Amazen smokers are awesome units and do what they were designed to do...but as far as reloading and automation; they're not really designed nor intended for that?

Also, if I were to design a unit for production/ease of use, I would make the shelving a standardized size (commercial sized pans/half pans/rack etc...). Use stainless steel (I like the idea of a glass front; but it's not that important too me). Make it a reasonable size for a home owner (Maybe make 2 different sizes...small and large).

Make it a pellet fed (possibly heated like the Traeger's, GMG, DAK's etc...using an electrode that burns the pellets and heat is controlled by fans and amount of fuel added. No heating elements.

Anyway...I'm know rambling on...

I'll follow this thread and can't wait too see the final product!

Where'd you get you degree from? My wife's a graduate from UNH and she's from Rochester!

~Brett


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## nick m (Mar 11, 2013)

Hey Brett,

Your project looks pretty cool!

Ours will feature an electronically adjustable pellet feed for smoke/flavor, but the primary heat source will be a rear mounted electric element with convection behind a dispersion plate.  This will allow separate control of smoke and temperature.  It will also have a small boiler to allow independent humidity control.  People can use whatever brand or blend of pellets they want, and they won't have to burn as many.  For me the electrical side is fairly straight forward, the time-consuming portion is incorporating everything in a way that is "harmonious".  I'm sort of a perfectionist, and "sloppy" solutions drive me crazy.  It's one reason why development takes me awhile and drives my other team mates nuts (haha).

I've been working on some 3D CAD models and have been coordinating with the machinist to get a good fabrication process up.  Need to do lots of measurements to eliminate hot spots and design a cooking chamber that lends itself to quick recovery of cooking temperature, good performance in different climates, and user-friendly operation/clean-up.  A nice look is also important.  Undoubtedly it will take a number of prototypes.

I went to The University of Massachusetts.

Thanks for chipping in!

- Nick


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## bbqwannabe (Jul 5, 2013)

Hey Nick, 
Is my smoker done yet:) This build sounds exactly what I am looking for, hope all is going good with it.


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## dcarch (Jul 5, 2013)

I am relatively new here. Just came across this thread. Haven’t read all the posts yet.

Many of the features of this new proposed engineered smoker are what I tried to incorporate in the smoker that I built, which is a converted working 4.5 cubic feet refrigerator.

My design objectives for the built:

Year-round smoking –

One of the major issues in the smoking world, IMHO, is when and where. Typically you can only smoke outdoors and in good weather. The smoker I built works indoors. It exhausts smoke to outside of the house, and it has a force air blower to clear all the smoke in about one minute before you open the door to view your progress. Therefore, I can smoke any time of the year.

Multi-functional –

Because it is still a working refrigerator, it can smoke from 32F to 212F. Therefore, I can cold smoke salmon, and cheese even when it is 110F or -20F outside. I can use it to dry age beef, make bacon, sausages ----- whatever.

Or when I am not smoking, I can still use it as a spare refrigerator.

It is PID controlled, so I can use it to pasteurize milk, eggs, proof dough, a food warmer ------. 

Smoke control –

A big issue for smokers. I built a motor driven cold smoker which can burn pellets and chips. The adjustable air intake and the speed controlled motor/blower allows very steady burn and economical burn. As a matter of fact, I have had the generator operating over 24 hours with no supervision, and it uses extremely little fuel. There has not been a need to refuel. End of staying up late with an alarm clock for long smokes.

There is a smoke viewing port before the smoke enters the smoker, I can see what adjustments I need with the blower motor to get a blast of white smoke or long long “TBS”. There is no need to open the smoker. 

Because of the blower’s centrifugal force and the long path of the smoke to travel before it enters the smoker, there is a creosol trap to collect creosol condensation before it coats the food. The cold smoker is portable and can be removed to smoke my outdoor smoker/grill.

Energy efficient –

Because a refrigerator has perfect seal and highly insulated, I have a 500 watt halogen light bulb ($2.00) operating at 300 watts to provide heat, and that is plenty good enough.

Additional features –

It has a convection fan inside and an ultrasonic moisturizer to provide moist smoke.

Typical appliance design – 

The one I built is just a mockup, the final built, whenever I get around making it, will be just another appliance that will fit in any kitchen décor and under the counter.

Portability – 

I kept the original plastic interior, which I have tested in boiling water (212F) and in a pressure cooker (250F) and the plastic had not deformed. I also assume the plastic is food grade. With the plastic interior, the entire unit is very light. A 4.5 cubic feet refrigerator is light enough to be handled by one person, if I ever want to take that to a friend’s house for a smoke party. 

--------------------------------

What do you think?

dcarch













SMOKER16_zps1ec8ee30.jpg



__ dcarch
__ Jul 5, 2013


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## nick m (Jul 5, 2013)

My time has been a bit occupied as of late - my wife had our first child this past May!

I've also been re-thinking the design after more discussion with potential customers.  People have been asking for features that would either force me to use [email protected]$$ components (to keep costs down) or increase the component budget to properly implement these features (such as touch-screen control, home network connectivity, and premium materials).

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dcarch - Cool man!  One difference in my design is an insulated enclosure that is safe to higher temperatures for caramelization of sauces.  Still working on an insulation choice that doesn't break-down at higher temps.

The most difficult parts for me are the integration of everything in an elegant fashion (within a single chassis), providing for simple user controls, and making sure that everything will last thousands of heating/cooling cycles and physical abuse.


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## smokinnh (Jul 8, 2013)

Nick MLooks like a great project!! Where in NH are you?  I see you went to UMASS. I went to Keene State College for Product Design and Development! Are you using Solidworks?I'm in the Nashua area, would be willing to help out the team if you are interested, either way looks like a great build and I'm hooked!Cheers!


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## nick m (Jul 17, 2013)

SmokinNH - I actually live just outside of Keene in one of the tiny surrounding towns.  I use Maxon Cinema 4D for design - it offers less in the way of functional simulation but more in the way of visualization (and at a MUCH better price).

I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so our small tight-knit group is probably all I can handle when it comes to design - thanks for the offer though!

Hoping to dig into the design work again soon.

- Nick


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## red dog (Nov 10, 2014)

So I wonder where this went? Over a year and nothing?


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## goingcamping (Jan 25, 2015)

NICK,

Any updates to dispose?

Cheers!

~Brett


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## wolfman1955 (Jan 26, 2015)

Looks like the Idea went up in smoke!! PUN INTENDED!!
Keep Smokin!!!
Wolf


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