# Question about Pork Butt cooking times



## ferrd32

Good afternoon,

I have a MES 30 and I find the 90 min per pound rule of thumb always off for me.  I find that time works if I use the Texas Crutch, but if I don't.......... it takes FOREVER to get up to 190 for sliced goodness.  Am I doing something wrong? I generally heat up the smoker to 225.

Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## cliffcarter

No you are not doing anything "wrong", but cooking at 225° pork butts take a very long time to get to the desired internal temp. Try cooking at a higher temp, I recommend the highest setting on your MES. I cook my butts on a Weber kettle at high heat(285°-315°) and average about 1 hour per pound, an 8lb butt takes 8 hours or less.


----------



## sqwib

I'm with cliff If I'm doing Butts/Picnics alone (no ribs) I'll run it at 275° sometimes higher. Averaging 70 -80 minutes a pound (foiled at 155-165).

That's for my pit, I don't know about an MES


----------



## foamheart

I use the MES30, I am a 220 low and slow without the crutch type smoker normally. I tell most folks its a 2 hour per pound estimator, and 2 1/2  if you want a good sit time. My last 9 lbs butt took a little over 22 hours in the smoker.

But it was well worth it.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/151828/butt-old-school-foamheart

BTW when ya get a chance drop over to the Forum section to "ROLL CALL" and introduce yourself so you can get a proper hello, learn the secret handshake, and practice the secret word that gets into the hidden files in the club house. It doesn't hurt too much and and (I stutter), no one has died yet from it, well there was the bullfrog897 incident but the lawyers never proved it.


----------



## weekend smoker

Agree with the other posters that 225 is too low for the 90 minute per lb time you want.  I cook pork butt at 250 and it for the most part takes about 90 minutes per lb to get done, though I usually shot for about 200-203 F to make it easier to pull.


----------



## worktogthr

Cliff  might have converted me as I started a similar thread and on his advice tried higher temps.  Smoked two small butts at at around 290 and it was around an hour per pound.  I have done the whole 22 hour 225 smoke and it was not enjoyable.  I have only done 4 or 5 butts in my short smoking days but I thought the higher temp cook yielded equally juicy, delicious results.  I am in no way knocking the low and slow method because if time didn't matter to me maybe I would go back to that but when you don't want to have to plan a dinner two days in advance and want delicious tender and juicy meat, the higher temp is the way to go.


----------



## foamheart

Just one more recommendation. I don't like smoking on the clock. All meats differ, then you have to calculate the weathers influence, even if its an electric I think sometimes its slow electricity!

Why put yourself thru the stress? You are probably going to pull it anyway so why wait, cook it a day early, pull it and put in the reefer with a bit of finishing sauce. Then when its time, throw it in a crock pot and heat it up, again adjusting for moisture with finishing sauce. I actually prefer it this way because it gives that sauce a chance to get into the meat. Its like beans, or chili, or gumbo, its better the next day when its reheated.

Other obvious benefits are you are not tired and cranky at the party, you get a good nights sleep. Youre clean, and you can do some of those nice party poppers while waiting to eat so everyone can appreciate your smoking skills as well as get you out from under the bosses foot. Outta sight outta mind! No stress over completion time involved.

Its just a win/win/win situation all over the place.


----------



## ferrd32

Thanks everyone for the advice!!!  And thanks Foamheart, I will stop in now and say hi.


----------



## mneeley490

I will be smoking at a little higher temp from now on, too. I put in two 8-9 lb. pork butts about 10:30 Saturday night @ 225°. Went 16 hours, and only got done because I wrapped in foil and threw them in the oven @ 275° for the last 2 hours. I dang near missed the kickoff!


----------



## mchar69

I smoke on my Weber 22" kettle grill - coals in one side, butts on the other -

 top full open over the meat, bottom closed under the meat, the other 2 vents cracked 1/4 or so.

I do about 3 hours heavy smoke then heavy-duty foil wrap for 2 - hrs + a bit -

killer results.  225 to 275.

Bacon turned out killer as well, over about 200 for 2 hours or so.

Wish I had the Q views.


----------



## flash

Turbo smoking. Been doing that for some time now, although I like to start out slow to allow for the butt to stay in the smoke longer. Usually 225 to 250, then wrap in foil around 170 IT and crank smoker to 300 +  Usually i can get a 8 lb Butt done in 9 hours or so this way.


----------



## foamheart

Flash I swear I am going to do my next butt that way just so I can have the experience under my belt. If its the same the only possible thing you gain out of 10 hours additional smoking is bark?


----------



## flash

Foamheart said:


> Flash I swear I am going to do my next butt that way just so I can have the experience under my belt. If its the same the only possible thing you gain out of 10 hours additional smoking is bark?


 Got to be a trade off with the longer time in the smoker and a higher heat. Higher heat helps with the bark too, but if in foil, that helps to deter it. I might try higher heat for 2 hours, then back off for a few hours before wrapping. More Bark for sure but once it is wrapped it will soften. Seems there is really a lot of ways to do a butt. Just gotta find the finish butt that you like the most. I do like getting them done sooner but would like to see a bit more bark myself.


----------



## jdlones

Okay, reading this thread has convinced me.  I'm putting a butt in the smoker in the morning and will up the temp.  The last one I did was at 225 and took a looong time.  I'd be happy if I can get done 9-10 hours.  As always, this forum is great for advice.  Especially for all of the newbies on here like me.


----------



## sqwib

Couple more tidbits for quicker cook time

Picnic - remove the skin
Picnic/Butt - Remove the bone, bones do not conduct heat.
Butt - Remove the fat cap but keep the false cap
Butt/Large - cut in half
Butt/Picnic - Foil
Butt Picnic - Bump up temp after foiling (Flash)
Butt/Picnic - do not baste (peek)
Butt/Picnic - Start at much higher temp then work down not the other way around, I start of at 350+ then work down.
Butt/Picnic - Do not allow meat to touch


----------



## flash

SQWIB said:


> Couple more tidbits for quicker cook time
> 
> Picnic - remove the skin
> Picnic/Butt - Remove the bone, bones do not conduct heat.
> Butt - Remove the fat cap but keep the false cap
> Butt/Large - cut in half
> Butt/Picnic - Foil
> Butt Picnic - Bump up temp after foiling (Flash)
> Butt/Picnic - do not baste (peek)
> Butt/Picnic - Start at much higher temp then work down not the other way around, I start of at 350+ then work down.
> Butt/Picnic - Do not allow meat to touch


Sqwib, would starting out high, then going lower, give more bark in your opinion?


----------



## smoke jenson

I started out with doing butts and think I perfected them pretty well. I stay in the 225-250 range.  I wrap at 165 till 200. When I do wrap I will turn the heat up more. I love trapping the juices in the foil and putting the pulled pork back in its own juice. can't beat it.












IMAG0703.jpg



__ smoke jenson
__ Feb 4, 2014


----------



## raastros2

I also used to smoke everything 220-230 but now keep everything at 250 or so


----------



## cmayna

Good info here for a guy like me who has yet to smoke his first Butt.  Getting mentally ready.


----------



## smoke jenson

I also brine mine over night with salt, molasses, garlic cloves, and some of my rub.


----------



## sqwib

Flash said:


> Sqwib, would starting out high, then going lower, give more bark in your opinion?



There's a lot of variables such as rub, type of smoker, cook time, temp, etc...
I always get a decent bark even when foiling
So its hard to say if higher to lower would give a thicker bark. But I would think a lower temp over a longer period would give a deeper bark (thicker)
As far as bark goes and many folks may not agree... I think the best bark is if the butt is foiled. This makes an otherwise hard bark chewy... which is what I like.
I'm always amazed at how many folks say you don't get a good bark when foiling. Its actually a great way to controlled the bark formation as well as the texture desired. That's reffering to my pit of course.
did I answer the question? lol.


----------



## flash

SQWIB said:


> There's a lot of variables such as rub, type of smoker, cook time, temp, etc...
> I always get a decent bark even when foiling
> So its hard to say if higher to lower would give a thicker bark. But I would think a lower temp over a longer period would give a deeper bark (thicker)
> As far as bark goes and many folks may not agree... I think the best bark is if the butt is foiled. This makes an otherwise hard bark chewy... which is what I like.
> I'm always amazed at how many folks say you don't get a good bark when foiling. Its actually a great way to controlled the bark formation as well as the texture desired. That's reffering to my pit of course.
> did I answer the question? lol.


 I just know I saw more bark on butts when I used my charcoal ECB model over the GOSM charcoal/propane. That dome in the ECB really trapped the heat and I was wondering if that helped more with the bark ??


----------



## sqwib

Flash said:


> I just know I saw more bark on butts when I used my charcoal ECB model over the GOSM charcoal/propane. That dome in the ECB really trapped the heat and I was wondering if that helped more with the bark ??


Its also very possible you had some convection going on as well, IMHO you will get more convection on a dome shape lid at the top rack as opposed to a flat top lid at the top rack... this is purely speculation.

Thermal mass above or below the food can also have some convection happening, your ECB may have had more thermal mass in addition to the dome shape focusing more heat back down, but like I said... pure speculation.


----------



## hickorybutt

Any time I've ever smoked a pork butt (maybe 5-6 times now) it has been around 250* - 260*.  It is nice to be able to start a 7-8# butt at around 8:00 a.m. and have it be done around 4:00 p.m. which is just enough time to rest in foil before dinner.  And it has been true "pulled" pork ever time - tender enough to pull the bone right out and mash apart.  So you can certainly get melt-in-your-mouth without having to ride at 225* for who knows how long.  I think when you are at 250* or above it helps push through the stall a little faster.  AND smoking at a slightly higher temp helps get a more crisp bark.


----------



## kewl32

I have tried smoking butt at a higher temp with ok results, but when i use a large but, say 12 to 14 pounds the bark gets pretty tough. naturally from the extended time in the smoker. I like to start out at the 225 mark for a little better than 3/4 of the cook time then raise the temp to get u thru the stall. it seems to me the higher temp on the end to break down the connective tissue better and still lessons the cook time. But thats just my opinion


----------



## sqwib

kewl32 said:


> I have tried smoking butt at a higher temp with ok results, but when i use a large but, say 12 to 14 pounds the bark gets pretty tough. naturally from the extended time in the smoker. I like to start out at the 225 mark for a little better than 3/4 of the cook time then raise the temp to get u thru the stall. it seems to me the higher temp on the end to break down the connective tissue better and still lessons the cook time. But thats just my opinion


12-14 lbs. is pretty big, I would half those.


----------



## bamaq

Hey OP, I use an MES 30 also, and I have been cooking my butts at 275 the last few times, with good results. No foiling either, just rub it and cook to 200 internal temp. In my experience, I don't get any bark out of my MES without cooking that high. Better to get a probe thermometer rather that try to gauge by time. I got mine at Target for about $15.

And cmayna, just go for it man!


----------



## cmayna

Sat, I'm doing it!!


----------



## crazyq

I cook my butts to "pull the bone" test. Im not a clock watch with ANY meat i cook. 

With that said i cook H/F at 300 and a boston butt runs me about 6hrs. But thats only a reference. EVERY cut of meat WILL cook diferent. Too many variables to really nail down a time per lb.


----------



## sqwib

SQWIB said:


> Couple more tidbits for quicker cook time
> 
> Picnic - remove the skin
> Picnic/Butt - Remove the bone, bones do not conduct heat.
> Butt - Remove the fat cap but keep the false cap
> Butt/Large - cut in half
> Butt/Picnic - Foil
> Butt Picnic - Bump up temp after foiling (Flash)
> Butt/Picnic - do not baste (peek)
> Butt/Picnic - Start at much higher temp then work down not the other way around, I start of at 350+ then work down.
> Butt/Picnic - Do not allow meat to touch





Flash said:


> Sqwib, would starting out high, then going lower, give more bark in your opinion?





SQWIB said:


> There's a lot of variables such as rub, type of smoker, cook time, temp, etc...
> I always get a decent bark even when foiling
> So its hard to say if higher to lower would give a thicker bark. But I would think a lower temp over a longer period would give a deeper bark (thicker)
> As far as bark goes and many folks may not agree... I think the best bark is if the butt is foiled. This makes an otherwise hard bark chewy... which is what I like.
> I'm always amazed at how many folks say you don't get a good bark when foiling. Its actually a great way to controlled the bark formation as well as the texture desired. That's reffering to my pit of course.
> did I answer the question? lol.


I was just going over this post and realized what I posted might have been taken wrong.

When I posted _Start at much higher temp then work down not the other way around, I start of at 350+ then work down_

.

I meant for the initial start up, not as a method of cooking, so when you FIRST fire up the smoker your temps would be at 350° or so, after you add the cold meat the temps will most likely start to drop, I wait for the temps to equalize then start reducing the cooking temperature to get to my desired cooking temp. Don't go the other way .

For example your DESIRED temp is 225°, once your smoker reaches 225°, you add the meat and the temp drops so you start increasing the temps to account for the heat loss due to the cold thermal mass added, I don't do this!. 

Some types of smokers may not experience this drop as much or as long as other types of smokers do.

I feel its much better and there is no loss of cook time if you preheat the pit to say 350°, add the cold meat and slowly adjust the temps down to come DOWN to your desired temp and not the other way around.

This adjustment time may take up to an hour on my pit, as far as electric smokers and other type smokers go I'm not sure how long it would take someone to dial it in.

I hope I cleared this up!


----------



## smoke jenson

Yep what SQWIB said, If you put that baby in at 225 your in for a long haul. I have a propane smoker and its pretty easy to adjust the temp. Easiest way is to just open the lid,door, whatever you have for a few minutes.


----------



## chicanuck

I am a novice and have only smoked ribs, chicken and ABT's so far, but successfully IMO.  I just bought a 12.8 lb pork butt to try my first pork shoulder on the smoker this weekend, I started feeling ill when I heard you should give it 90 mins per pound at 225F.  I feel much better reading this forum and the great tips on time saving.  I am going to split the butt and cook in the 275F range, foil at ~170 IT as suggested......I am excited again about this weekend and my first attempt.

I will post pictures as I progress.

Thanks again.


----------



## foamheart

chicanuck said:


> I am a novice and have only smoked ribs, chicken and ABT's so far, but successfully IMO.  I just bought a 12.8 lb pork butt to try my first pork shoulder on the smoker this weekend, I started feeling ill when I heard you should give it 90 mins per pound at 225F.  I feel much better reading this forum and the great tips on time saving.  I am going to split the butt and cook in the 275F range, foil at ~170 IT as suggested......I am excited again about this weekend and my first attempt.
> 
> I will post pictures as I progress.
> 
> Thanks again.


At a smoker temp of 225 you should give the meat and min. estimate of 2 hours a pound if not using the crutch. My last 9 pound butt took  20 hours.

But with the newer high temp cooks, and the Texas Crutch ( it reduces the stall time), it requires much less time. BUT still...... I never cook butts or brisket on the clock. I would rather cook the day before and shred, throw in the reefer with some finishing sauce to the reheat the next day. That way you take the clock out of the cook and you get to sleep the night before. It allows you to run over time or under time and time for the unexpected. That night sitting with a good finishing sauce makes a HUGE difference in the taste too! I highly recommended Chef JJ's finishing sauce (the formula is here on the boards).

With Brisket I do the same and its much easier to cut the next day..

Just a suggestion.


----------



## heyer5

When it comes to pork butts, I run 300-325, but my rub doesn't contain a ton of sugar that could potentially burn at those higher temps.  I get just as good of a smoke ring as I ever did running at 225-250.  I enjoy my ribs around 250-275.  Pork loin I like to run low, 225-250.

Chicken is the little devil, if you want crisp skin, you almost want to finish it on a grill with a high temp to crisp up that skin.  Just my opinions - Oh, I don't foil either...


----------



## smokedstanley

I have made quite a few amazing butts on my MES 30. I rub the night before and smoke with Apple wood at 225 all the way through. Spray with Apple juice every few hours.













CAM00095.jpg



__ smokedstanley
__ Mar 27, 2014





 Average 18 hours a cook. The bark is amazing. I don't brine, inject or foil. Smoking meats is an art. Slow and low, the meat will let you know when it is done. Either way you have to experiment and find what work for you. I find that the hot and fast is good but didn't break down the fat the same and the texture was off a bit.


----------



## james1nc

WOW this is a lot to take in , I'm doing my first butts next weekend and I thought I had my mind made up between low n slow 225 and no foiling or higher temp 250-275 and foiling .now I'm back to square one . don't want to change the subject but could you take a 12lb butt and divided it into two 6lbs to cut your time in half?


----------



## foamheart

james1nc said:


> WOW this is a lot to take in , I'm doing my first butts next weekend and I thought I had my mind made up between low n slow 225 and no foiling or higher temp 250-275 and foiling .now I'm back to square one . don't want to change the subject but could you take a 12lb butt and divided it into two 6lbs to cut your time in half?


Yes, best thing to do is not try to mix and match, take a single road and see where it takes you.

Another thing that really matters, in the opening paragraph the smoker said he had an MES30. That means that most of the advise given by fireburners will be slightly tainted. They usually use higher temps. Easily known when someone says something about a smoke ring, You need nail polish to paint on a smoke ring on anything done on an electric..... just ain't gonna happen. I actually heard someone once trying to use cure to get a faux smoke ring. LOL

Its not hard, just pick a course and hold true, it will usually make you mostly happy then you keep notes so the next time you can try and correct what you didn't like and keep what you did.

Cut in half will speed the cooking but not cut in half. I like mine big, and do low and slow without foil, never in a hurry. Cook today feed tomorrow. Its the easiest. But I understand not everyone smokes that way. Seems like I am thinkin, a reduction of maybe 25 percent because you still have the mass even though it is in smaller areas. But I am pulling out long ago memories.


----------



## worktogthr

james1nc said:


> WOW this is a lot to take in , I'm doing my first butts next weekend and I thought I had my mind made up between low n slow 225 and no foiling or higher temp 250-275 and foiling .now I'm back to square one . don't want to change the subject but could you take a 12lb butt and divided it into two 6lbs to cut your time in half?



I do it all the time.. Just did one that was 9 pounds and cut it in half.  More bark too that way.


----------



## elky327

Just my 2 cents ( and I'm not as experienced as some of ya'll) but I have been smoking butts (5-6#) at 225-250 for about 5-6 hours and then place them in a foil pan with a 1/2 cup pure apple juice and wrap tight with foil. Then I raise the temp to about 350 for about 3 hours and always turns out fall off the bone tender.


----------



## stickyfingers

I have been doing the low & slow for the past 5 years, but in February I went to Myron Mixon's Jack's Old South School and picked up A LOT of tips! Two weekends ago I put them to use. Two 10# butts each in a foil pan 300-325 for 4 hours. Then foil over the pans cooked for 4 hours, then under a moving blanket for 2 hours. Results were the best butts for taste, tenderness and appearance I have done. I'm sold. The family is still talking about them!


----------



## smokedstanley

How was the bark using that method


----------



## stickyfingers

Honestly, I was concerned going into it, because I love a good bark. Turned out the bark was perfect. It was just firm enough without drying out. I really believe those two butts would have won most comps!


----------



## beerdelman

Stickyfingers did you use anything in the pan or just dry? and would that temp and time be used for smaller butts or say just one?.....I am a big fan of myrons!  Would love to attend that class


----------



## stickyfingers

No, I did not put anything in the pan. I did inject it though and of course a rub. I don't know about smaller butts. Never done one smaller than 8lbs. My guess is it would just take less time. 

If you get the chance to go to his class it's awesome...I would go again.


----------



## ps0303

With it being in a pan the entire time, how was the smoke ring?


----------



## stickyfingers

The pan had no effect on the smoke ring at all. I have been panning most things since then...brisket, moinks, ABTs, chicken...just not ribs. I probably had a GOOD 1/4" + ring. When I went to pull it, I turned it over and the fat cap came off in one big piece.


----------



## centre21

This also might help with explaining why it takes so long:

http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/the_stall.html

Forgive the competitor's website. :)


----------



## capsaicin king

I'm doing mine at 250 1 for 1.  I can't wait to see what it's like when I'm done.


----------

