# To Keep Or Not To Keep The Water Pan Inside The MES During Smoking? This Answers The Question



## daricksta (Aug 25, 2015)

This from page 8 of the MES 30 Gen 1 owner's manual: "Note: Water bowl must always be in place during smoking process, even if there is no water or other liquid in bowl. Bowl will prevent food from dripping onto wood chips."

So, according to Masterbuilt, the water pan is not essential for heat distribution, not essential for the smoking process, and the smoker won't break if used without the water pan in place. My question to Masterbuilt is this: since the wood chip holder is completely covered, and the wood chip loader extends into this covered area, how exactly will food drip "onto wood chips"? I don't see how it can.

But what this means is that if you're using an AMNS or an AMNPS, it's a non-issue if you've tented the tray with foil. What might be an issue is that the distribution of heat and smoke might change without the water pan in plan and so some minor adjustments in therm probe placements, meat foiling, and overall cooking times might need to be made. I foil over the empty water pan and use it simply as a drip pan which also serves to protect the wood pellets on my AMNPS.

But this should answer the question of if it's safe to use the MES without the water pan. I'd say that it is. Whether you use it or not, fill it with juice or water or leave it empty is entirely your choice.


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## ibbones (Aug 25, 2015)

Not an expert Masterbuilt tech. here but I don't think I have used my water pan for about 1 1/2 years.  I do not even have it in the smoker.  My food drips on the chip box and I am OK with that.  Every so often I roll out my smoker and set it to 275* for 8-10 hours to burn off any nasties and the next day I might scoop out the chard up stuff.  I guess I got too lazy to foil my water pan and put it back in.


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## jted (Aug 25, 2015)

daRicksta, I used my MES30 for several seasons without the water pan in the smoker box. I did this with no adverse effects. It was only after a discussion with the Bear carver about heat distribution that I put the foiled pan back in the smoker. I found that the water pan does help with the heat distribution just as Bear said it would.  Jted


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## daricksta (Aug 26, 2015)

ibbones said:


> Not an expert Masterbuilt tech. here but I don't think I have used my water pan for about 1 1/2 years.  I do not even have it in the smoker.  My food drips on the chip box and I am OK with that.  Every so often I roll out my smoker and set it to 275* for 8-10 hours to burn off any nasties and the next day I might scoop out the chard up stuff.  I guess I got too lazy to foil my water pan and put it back in.


Ibbones, I sure wish you had weighed in with this about two years or so ago when I first saw this issue raised. You not only gave a definitive answer you also gave great advice on how to clean up whatever mess occurs. Thanks!


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## daricksta (Aug 26, 2015)

jted said:


> daRicksta, I used my MES30 for several seasons without the water pan in the smoker box. I did this with no adverse effects. It was only after a discussion with the Bear carver about heat distribution that I put the foiled pan back in the smoker. I found that the water pan does help with the heat distribution just as Bear said it would.  Jted


jted, in all our discussions I don't remember you telling me you removed the water pan for that long a time. But I confess with some things I don't have a great memory.

I've read Bear say that about heat distribution and that's why I've repeated it, but I couldn't remember if it his opinion or if he was relaying what MB had stated. My point is that it won't harm the MES to leave it out so it becomes a matter of personal choice. I choose to leave the pan in because it helps to protect the AMNPS from grease drips. But you know how I like to experiment. I think when I cold smoke cheese and/or salmon later on I'll remove the water pan. After that, the next time I smoke b-backs I'll try it without the water pan and just tent over the AMNPS with foil and monitor the interior temp on both sides with the ET-733.


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## jted (Aug 26, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> jted, in all our discussions I don't remember you telling me you removed the water pan for that long a time. But I confess with some things I don't have a great memory.
> 
> I've read Bear say that about heat distribution and that's why I've repeated it, but I couldn't remember if it his opinion or if he was relaying what MB had stated. My point is that it won't harm the MES to leave it out so it becomes a matter of personal choice. I choose to leave the pan in because it helps to protect the AMNPS from grease drips. But you know how I like to experiment. I think when I cold smoke cheese and/or salmon later on I'll remove the water pan. After that, the next time I smoke b-backs I'll try it without the water pan and just tent over the AMNPS with foil and monitor the interior temp on both sides with the ET-733.


Rick,It has been a long time since we had the conversition (Bear) and I don't remember it exactly.. It was one on heat distribution though. When you do your test check those levels a couple of hours into the smoke.

Ultimately it is the operators choice. In either case I believe it won't hurt the smoker to run it with out the water pan in place.


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## mummel (Aug 26, 2015)

I've used my water pan since day one and keep it foiled for drippings.  Its so easy to clean up, and it protects my AMPS.  In my mind I believe it helps with heat distribution.  I see no reason not to use it but each to their own.

I wonder however is no water pan = better air circulation for the AMPS?  Thats a question.


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## walta (Aug 26, 2015)

My guess is the lawyers wrote this line of the manual.

If enough fat were to drip directly on the heating unit and the fatty meat was close to the heater. It is possible that a fire could to get started.

The smoker and the instructions were made to survive a worst case scenario. Think about a 40 inch filled to capacity with goose stuffed with sausage.

My pan is stainless and when it gets bad the dishwasher does a great job.

Walta


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## daricksta (Aug 26, 2015)

walta said:


> My guess is the lawyers wrote this line of the manual.
> 
> If enough fat were to drip directly on the heating unit and the fatty meat was close to the heater. It is possible that a fire could to get started.
> 
> ...


Your guess about the lawyers makes perfect sense. Like mummel, I keep my water pan foiled and inside the smoker to keep grease off my AMNPS.


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## daricksta (Aug 26, 2015)

mummel said:


> I've used my water pan since day one and keep it foiled for drippings.  Its so easy to clean up, and it protects my AMPS.  In my mind I believe it helps with heat distribution.  I see no reason not to use it but each to their own.
> 
> I wonder however is no water pan = better air circulation for the AMPS?  Thats a question.


I'll answer your question in a couple of weeks or so when I smoke two racks of baby backs. As an experiment I'm going to leave the water pan out and tent over the AMNPS with foil. I'll also need to foil over the wood chip holder housing.


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## daricksta (Aug 26, 2015)

jted said:


> Rick,It has been a long time since we had the conversition (Bear) and I don't remember it exactly.. It was one on heat distribution though. When you do your test check those levels a couple of hours into the smoke.
> 
> Ultimately it is the operators choice. In either case I believe it won't hurt the smoker to run it with out the water pan in place.


Since I use the ET-733 I'm always monitoring the temps inside the smoker and the meat. When I smoke the b-backs in a couple of weeks I'll be able to monitor both smoker racks at the same time. I'll report back the results afterwards.


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## brickguy221 (Aug 26, 2015)

I have the Maverick ET-733 and use it on Tri-Tips, Pork Loins, and such meats, but haven't used it for shelf temp in the MES. Instead, I use this oven thermometer to see what my shelf temperature is...


I checked it's accuracy with both my old Weber and my new Maverick and it is acurate and matched what they said the temp is.


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## daricksta (Aug 26, 2015)

Brickguy221 said:


> I have the Maverick ET-733 and use it on Tri-Tips, Pork Loins, and such meats, but haven't used it for shelf temp in the MES. Instead, I use this oven thermometer to see what my shelf temperature is...
> 
> 
> I checked it's accuracy with both my old Weber and my new Maverick and it is acurate and matched what they said the temp is.


I had a Food Network brand digital therm with a probe that was made by Taylor that I used in my first year with my MES 30. I had calibrated it and all was good. Last year I found out that somehow it was about 5-10 degrees off when I compared it to my new thermocouple instant read therm. But the type you use I see a lot with pro grillers and BBQ pitmasters. I always use the BARBECUE probe on my ET-733 to monitor the rack heat. If I'm smoking ribs I use the FOOD probe to monitor a 2nd rack.

I've yet to smoke pork loins but I have smoked a tri-tip. It was sooooooo good.


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## rabbithutch (Aug 26, 2015)

Good thread and great information.

When I first got my MES I wondered why the drip pan was oblong.  Then it occurred to me that it was to allow air circulation and heat flow.  A rectangular pan would block both.  I used water in the pan only once.  It was a mess to clean up and I saw no useful purpose.  Now I keep it foiled and only replace the foil when it gets too dirty.  I've thought about filling it with sand and then foiling it, but I'm so clumsy these days that I'm sure I'd wind up with sand all over the insides and have an even worse mess to deal with.  I'll save the sand for the mini-WSM.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a question about tenting the AMNPS inside the MES.  Does tenting interfere with air flow and the amount of smoke produced?  I've tried it both ways but didn't control for how wide open the chip loader was or whether or not the elbow was in the exhaust vent or how windy it was on each occasion.  I came to no useful conclusion other than that the tent protects the pellets from drippings.

Who has a definitive answer about how tenting affects air flow and smoke performance in an MES?


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## dr k (Aug 26, 2015)

jted said:


> daRicksta, I used my MES30 for several seasons without the water pan in the smoker box. I did this with no adverse effects. It was only after a discussion with the Bear carver about heat distribution that I put the foiled pan back in the smoker. I found that the water pan does help with the heat distribution just as Bear said it would.  Jted


I believe Bear removes the drip pan and puts down aluminum foil on the bottom of the smoker and punches a hole for the grease drain.  I am going to do this in my 40" GEN 1 because I'm sick of foiling three dimensional parts in the smoker.  Since that is easier I'm going to make a two dimensional aluminum foil heat distribution alternative by using the water pan and my heat deflector as a template in the pic below. 

This has been creating even temps on my second from the top rack at the corners.













CAM00577.jpg



__ dr k
__ Aug 26, 2015






Since most smokes don't create pools of juice, just drips, I'm going to try the two dimensional version of the pic above.  I'll use my foiled water pan/drip pan for fatties, rendering bacon and a full smoker etc. 













CAM00658.jpg



__ dr k
__ Aug 26, 2015






It's worth a try!

-Kurt


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## daricksta (Aug 26, 2015)

rabbithutch said:


> Good thread and great information.
> 
> When I first got my MES I wondered why the drip pan was oblong. Then it occurred to me that it was to allow air circulation and heat flow. A rectangular pan would block both. I used water in the pan only once. It was a mess to clean up and I saw no useful purpose. Now I keep it foiled and only replace the foil when it gets too dirty. I've thought about filling it with sand and then foiling it, but I'm so clumsy these days that I'm sure I'd wind up with sand all over the insides and have an even worse mess to deal with. I'll save the sand for the mini-WSM.
> 
> ...


"Definitive answer"? I'd say either Bear or Todd Johnson are the best sources for those. I used to tent my AMNPS in the early days but I never bother now. I think the tenting is what caused flameouts with the tray. In my opinion, the AMNPS takes up relatively little space and the tent doesn't need to be that high so in my opinion there should be minimal effect on airflow. As for smoke performance, smoke's going to find air pathways from under and around the tenting so I don't think it would be affected at all.


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## jted (Aug 26, 2015)

Dr. I don't know what setup the Bear carver uses now but the picture he sent me had both the heat deflector and water pan that was about the same size as yours in the picture but yours is attached to the pan as far as I can tell. He stated he would move his to the left if needed. Your set up looks good .Let us know how it works out.   Jted


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## dr k (Aug 26, 2015)

jted said:


> Dr. I don't know what setup the Bear carver uses now but the picture he sent me had both the heat deflector and water pan that was about the same size as yours in the picture but yours is attached to the pan as far as I can tell. He stated he would move his to the left if needed. Your set up looks good .Let us know how it works out.   Jted


My deflector sits on top of my water pan lip and is moveable.  The pic below shows the cardboard template before I traced it to a cookie sheet and cut it out.













CAM00575.jpg



__ dr k
__ Aug 26, 2015






I didn't want to trap heat off of the right wall so the final design I've been using since June is the deflector below.













CAM00577.jpg



__ dr k
__ Aug 26, 2015






-Kurt


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## jted (Aug 27, 2015)

Dr. That looks great .Have you done temperature testing. If you have had a chance I would be very interested in your results.    Jted


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## daricksta (Aug 27, 2015)

Dr K said:


> I believe Bear removes the drip pan and puts down aluminum foil on the bottom of the smoker and punches a hole for the grease drain.  I am going to do this in my 40" GEN 1 because I'm sick of foiling three dimensional parts in the smoker.  Since that is easier I'm going to make a two dimensional aluminum foil heat distribution alternative by using the water pan and my heat deflector as a template in the pic below.
> 
> This has been creating even temps on my second from the top rack at the corners.
> 
> ...


Actually, I see great pools of grease in the drip pan after smoking ribs, briskets and pork shoulders because those cuts are so fatty. I foil over the drip pan and punch a hole in the back where it leads to the the rear grease tray. Very rarely do I see any grease in that thing.


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## Bearcarver (Aug 27, 2015)

jted said:


> Dr. I don't know what setup the Bear carver uses now but the picture he sent me had both the heat deflector and water pan that was about the same size as yours in the picture but yours is attached to the pan as far as I can tell. He stated he would move his to the left if needed. Your set up looks good .Let us know how it works out.   Jted


Right,

My deflector is simpler than Dr K's, as I just put it above the water pan, and I don't trim it around the pan. The right edge of the deflector fits in between the rack holders on the right, and the left edge rests on top of an "A" shaped support, sitting in the water pan. If I need more heat on the left, I elevate the left edge a little higher by sliding the "A" support to the right a little more. If for some odd reason I need more heat on the right, I slide the whole deflector away from the right wall by a half inch or so.

I use a foil pan cut in half & set upside down above my AMNPS to protect it from drips, and it doesn't effect the smoking of the AMNPS, as long as you don't have it too close above the AMNPS.

Bear


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## jted (Aug 27, 2015)

DSC02341.JPG



__ Bearcarver
__ Jun 24, 2011






 This was the image Bear sent me to show me his deflector. At the same time he recommended a slightly smaller drip pan than what I was useing. .

It is in use now but I will try to post it during a rib smoke I am doing a side by side test of cutting up a rack of ribs.

They are in for 2 1/2 hours at 260  Then I will foil them and sauce them with ancho cherry sauce. That will last about 1.5 hours and then they come out of the foil bed for 1/2 hour and get sauced.  total smoke time about just under 5 hours     .jted


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## mummel (Aug 27, 2015)

Wow those bellies look great.


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## Bearcarver (Aug 27, 2015)

jted said:


> DSC02341.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow---That was from awhile ago, because this pic was even before I confirmed that the deflector was a permanent fixture. I know that because this was before I started covering it with foil. In fact I think I trimmed about an inch off of it since the above picture.

Bear

*On Edit:   I just checked----This picture is from June of 2011.*


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## daricksta (Aug 27, 2015)

jted said:


> DSC02341.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know, Jted? I just love the name "Ancho Cherry Sauce". That name populates my mind with visions and taste sensations for those ribs. Hot and sweet. Ancho chile powder is one of my favorite spices.


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## dr k (Aug 27, 2015)

jted said:


> Dr. That looks great .Have you done temperature testing. If you have had a chance I would be very interested in your results.    Jted


I've been using the deflector since June. All corners of the second rack from the top are consistent with each other except the front left is a little cooler, being furthest away from the heating element. After my smoker start up temp stabilizes the Mes temp set at 225* F has my Mav's fluctuating between 225*-248*F. About 236*F average. 
-Kurt


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## jted (Aug 27, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Wow---That was from awhile ago, because this pic was even before I confirmed that the deflector was a permanent fixture. I know that because this was before I started covering it with foil. In fact I think I trimmed about an inch off of it since the above picture.
> 
> Bear
> 
> *On Edit:   I just checked----This picture is from June of 2011.*


Bear apparently you just used a file photo since my P/M from you was in early 2015. Those pork belly's still look good.


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## daricksta (Aug 28, 2015)

Dr K said:


> I've been using the deflector since June. All corners of the second rack from the top are consistent with each other except the front left is a little cooler, being furthest away from the heating element. After my smoker start up temp stabilizes the Mes temp set at 225* F has my Mav's fluctuating between 225*-248*F. About 236*F average.
> -Kurt


You've got a MES 40, right?


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## dr k (Aug 28, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You've got a MES 40, right?


Right!  I now have two from your month of May Amazon find.  The first 40" Gen 1 appeared to be delivered by covered wagon and works perfectly after being beat to hell from the delivery.   I had to wait almost two months whereby I could use the one I have then cut the cord and send pics when MB's inventory came in .  MB offered the GEN 2 for immediate delivery but I took Bear's advice and always reconfirmed the part number for the 40" Gen 1.  I pushed enough electrical supply cord inside the smoker before I cut the cord and took a picture.  After they received and confirmed my order of the new smoker I pulled out the cord and soldered the electrical cord back together. I seasoned the new smoker for six hours without the last hour with smoke to make sure it works.  I'll use this smoker as an indoor/outdoor oven till my original smoker fails.  That may be awhile since there are so many helpful tips on testing/replacing parts for a fix.  I use my smoker at least once a week since late May.  I use my indoor oven maybe once a year.  I'm concerned about the winter cold here in central Illinois with the controller outside.  The smoker is covered when not in use.  If it wasn't for you, I may not have these amazing 40" Gen 1 smokers.  $273 with free shipping SS 40" Gen 1's with window and RF remote control.  That may be tough to find again.  Thanks Rick!

-Kurt


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## jted (Aug 28, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Right!  I now have two from your month of May Amazon find.  The first 40" Gen 1 appeared to be delivered by covered wagon and works perfectly after being beat to hell from the delivery.   I had to wait almost two months whereby I could use the one I have then cut the cord and send pics when MB's inventory came in .  MB offered the GEN 2 for immediate delivery but I took Bear's advice and always reconfirmed the part number for the 40" Gen 1.  I pushed enough electrical supply cord inside the smoker before I cut the cord and took a picture.  After they received and confirmed my order of the new smoker I pulled out the cord and soldered the electrical cord back together. I seasoned the new smoker for six hours without the last hour with smoke to make sure it works.  I'll use this smoker as an indoor/outdoor oven till my original smoker fails.  That may be awhile since there are so many helpful tips on testing/replacing parts for a fix.  I use my smoker at least once a week since late May.  I use my indoor oven maybe once a year.  I'm concerned about the winter cold here in central Illinois with the controller outside.  The smoker is covered when not in use.  If it wasn't for you, I may not have these amazing 40" Gen 1 smokers.  $273 with free shipping SS 40" Gen 1's with window and RF remote control.  That may be tough to find again.  Thanks Rick!
> 
> -Kurt


Dr, I understand your concerns about the controllers in the weather. since you put your controller on you know just how easy it is to remove  if you want to store it in side. I had a metal dog bowl that was not being used and I would stuff it with paper towels and put it over my controller before putting the cover on. Now I just unplug the Auber PID controller and store it inside. Jted


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## Bearcarver (Aug 28, 2015)

Guys---Mine's been sitting outside on my front porch (Wide Open) for 5 years, and Pennsylvania aint exactly Hawaii during the Winter.

And Todd Johnson has a whole herd of MES Smokers & he lives in the Frozen Tundra of MN.

Bear


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## dr k (Aug 28, 2015)

jted said:


> Dr, I understand your concerns about the controllers in the weather. since you put your controller on you know just how easy it is to remove  if you want to store it in side. I had a metal dog bowl that was not being used and I would stuff it with paper towels and put it over my controller before putting the cover on. Now I just unplug the Auber PID controller and store it inside. Jted


If I had a PID plug and play, I would definitely bring that inside after every smoke.  On both smokers it took me fifteen minute to get the set screw on the controller adjusted.  I had to use the screwdriver to push down a little insulation where the screw head held down the controller on top of the smoker.  I'll probably have to bring it inside.  The Mother board is under the drip pan accessible from the bottom of the smoker.  Might as well bring all electronics inside which means the whole smoker.

-Kurt


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## dr k (Aug 28, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Guys---Mine's been sitting outside on my front porch (Wide Open) for 5 years, and Pennsylvania aint exactly Hawaii during the Winter.
> 
> And Todd Johnson has a whole herd of MES Smokers & he lives in the Frozen Tundra of MN.
> 
> Bear


That's what I wanted to hear.  Thanks!  Nothing in the manual about it as well as cleaning sensors.  I guess I don't mind having an insulated over heat temp shut off sensor (button) from smoke residue.  I would rather have that circuit closed.  If it gets hot enough the circuit will open, cutting the electricity to the controller.  The Mes controller toggle heat sensor needs more attention.

-Kurt


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## jted (Aug 28, 2015)

Dr K said:


> If I had a PID plug and play, I would definitely bring that inside after every smoke.  On both smokers it took me fifteen minute to get the set screw on the controller adjusted.  I had to use the screwdriver to push down a little insulation where the screw head held down the controller on top of the smoker.  I'll probably have to bring it inside.  The Mother board is under the drip pan accessible from the bottom of the smoker.  Might as well bring all electronics inside which means the whole smoker.
> 
> -Kurt


Hi Dr, I did not know what a pain the controller was on the 40's to get off. I have a 30 and thought they would be about the same. A couple of small screws and then a snap together plug and that's it.


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## cliffking (Aug 29, 2015)

I have mes30 with amnps and i only use my water pan if i fill with beer or apple juice depending on the flavor i want, I have never noticed any difference in the smoke whether using or not using the pan.


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## brickguy221 (Aug 29, 2015)

jted said:


> Hi Dr, I did not know what a pain the controller was on the 40's to get off. I have a 30 and thought they would be about the same. A couple of small screws and then a snap together plug and that's it.


I changed out the controller on my old 40" Gen 2.0 a few months ago and it was a simple task, for me anyhow. Take out a total of 8 easy to get to small screws, unplug 3 wires from old controller, plug the wires into the new one and replace the screws. Whole process takes less than 6-8 minutes.


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## dr k (Aug 30, 2015)

cliffking said:


> I have mes30 with amnps and i only use my water pan if i fill with beer or apple juice depending on the flavor i want, I have never noticed any difference in the smoke whether using or not using the pan.


I must have mispoken in my prevoious post. Putting on the controller is a PIA adjusting the set screw on the first setup.


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## dr k (Aug 30, 2015)

@Cliffking sorry wrong post!


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## daricksta (Aug 31, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Right!  I now have two from your month of May Amazon find.  The first 40" Gen 1 appeared to be delivered by covered wagon and works perfectly after being beat to hell from the delivery.   I had to wait almost two months whereby I could use the one I have then cut the cord and send pics when MB's inventory came in .  MB offered the GEN 2 for immediate delivery but I took Bear's advice and always reconfirmed the part number for the 40" Gen 1.  I pushed enough electrical supply cord inside the smoker before I cut the cord and took a picture.  After they received and confirmed my order of the new smoker I pulled out the cord and soldered the electrical cord back together. I seasoned the new smoker for six hours without the last hour with smoke to make sure it works.  I'll use this smoker as an indoor/outdoor oven till my original smoker fails.  That may be awhile since there are so many helpful tips on testing/replacing parts for a fix.  I use my smoker at least once a week since late May.  I use my indoor oven maybe once a year.  I'm concerned about the winter cold here in central Illinois with the controller outside.  The smoker is covered when not in use.  If it wasn't for you, I may not have these amazing 40" Gen 1 smokers.  $273 with free shipping SS 40" Gen 1's with window and RF remote control.  That may be tough to find again.  Thanks Rick!
> 
> -Kurt


You're welcome, Kurt. That's why I posted that Amazon deal. I forgot about your MES 40 story.You made out big time with being able to keep both smokers. I'm sure MB knows guys are doing this but as long as they have their proof you followed their instructions they don't care after that.

I'd like a MES 40 someday but I hope my 30" keeps working for years yet.


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