# Summer sausage and other sausage internal temperatures?



## hangmanli

fellas,

I’m new to smoking and just bought a Bradley digital 4 rack smoker.

I did 25 lbs of summer sausage with the LEM seasoning packet with Instacure.   I used the 2 1/2” burgundy fibrous casings.

realized that I overloaded the smoker the first time with 20 pounds.   It took almost 24 hours for the internal temperature to get to 160° .   The 5 pound batch went much quicker in about 8 hours.

 I have read different things about the desired internal temperature of summer sausage or other sausages.
I’ve read 160 degrees, 155 degrees and 152 degrees.

I just received the book by Rytek Kutas and have started to read it.

What is the best desired internal temperature for sausages? Using Instacure of course

Thanks for any helpful advice


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## ol smoky

I take mine to 152. Depends on how dry you want it to be. 152 is the texture I am looking for.


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## hangmanli

I’m using 60% venison and 40% pork

With the Instacure is that a Safe temperature for preventing Botulism?

I’m a newbie and want to try to learn all the nuances of smoking, along with the do’s and dont’s.


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## SmokinAl

Yes 152 is safe, and that is where most of the guys take it too.
As long as you used the proper amount of cure #1.
Al


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## muddydogs

Look into water bathing to finish the sausage. I run large batches and the first time mine took forever to finish as well, not 24 hours but long enough. After doing some searching I found a wealth of info on this forum about hot water bathing the smoked sausages to get them up to target temp. It works really slick and gets them up to temp faster.


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## muddydogs

Here's a good post.
https://smokingmeatforums.com/threads/hot-water-bath.246010/


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## hangmanli

Thanks for the info.

How does the hot water bath system work in conjunction with smoking?

I primarily smoke venison summer sausage right now.  2 1/2” fibrous casings.

Do I smoke them first then do the hot water bath?  Or vise Versa?

Can you give me some guidelines of how long to do each and the sequence?

Also what type of container should i use for hot water bathing the sausage?  I have propane gas on the cooktop.


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## muddydogs

Click on this link to a forum post about it https://smokingmeatforums.com/threads/hot-water-bath.246010/ A couple members explain it very well. A couple guys use stock pots on the range top and others use turkey roasters. General procedure is to smoke like you would up to a IT of 140ish then put in the 170 degree water and finish to IT of 152 to 165 depending on what you want.


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## hangmanli

Thanks Muddy!


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## muddydogs

No problems. The water bath made doing summer sausages a lot more enjoyable for me though it does add another layer, more equipment and more cleanup but these things are outway by the hours it saves.


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## hangmanli

Can the hot water bath method be used for any type of casing?

I’m looking at a Hamilton beach 22 quart model electric turkey roaster that has a 24” length.   That should easily accommodate 20 inch long casings.

 That should work shouldn’t it?


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## hangmanli

Will this work for hot bathing sausages?


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## muddydogs

Yep that roaster will work fine. Anything is a casing can be bathed, guys are doing snack sticks in collagen case, big old logs of stuff that have to be in middles or bungs.


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## hangmanli

Thanks again!


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## daveomak

Below is a pasteurization table you can use to make your sausage safe to eat....

This chart, translated, your sausage once it reaches 135 deg. F for 28 minutes, there has been a 5 log reduction of salmonella...  holding longer than 135 deg. F will increase the reduction of salmonella bacteria..  I hold my sausage, at lower temps, for hours to insure bacteria kill off....


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## mike1ranger

daveomak said:


> Below is a pasteurization table you can use to make your sausage safe to eat....
> 
> This chart, translated, your sausage once it reaches 135 deg. F for 28 minutes, there has been a 5 log reduction of salmonella...  holding longer than 135 deg. F will increase the reduction of salmonella bacteria..  I hold my sausage, at lower temps, for hours to insure bacteria kill off....
> 
> View attachment 347846


Would you mind translating (dumbing it down) a bit more for me?  So, say at 135 for 28 min the sausage is now considered safe?or, at 135 for 28 min there is a 5 log reduction (what is a 5 log?)and then after another 28 min another reduction, etc?  I see you go an hour or more to be safe but I'm just wanting to fully understand the pasturization table and the effect on safe meat.


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## daveomak

For example, a "*5*-*log* *reduction*" means lowering the number of microorganisms by 100,000-fold, that is, if a surface has 100,000 pathogenic microbes on it, a *5*-*log* *reduction* would reduce the number of microorganisms to one.

Each log reduction reduces the present bacteria by 90%.... 

The longer meat sits at a given temperature, the more the bacteria is reduced...
The higher the temperature, the faster the bacteria is reduced...
"Some" human pathogens, like those that make you sick, start to die at around 102-104 deg. F...  that's why you get a fever when ill...   It's your body trying to kill the invaders...

Below is an explanation of Pasteurizing milk...   from 145F to 300F... where the milk can be safely stored at room temp..
http://www.milkfacts.info/Milk Processing/Heat Treatments and Pasteurization.htm

To try and answer your question in more detail, each food type has different bacteria of interest to kill...
Those food groups are tested by injecting bacteria of interest, and "counted".. HOW ? you ask, shit if I know...
Then they heat the food and hold it for a given time and count them again... and again... and again... until the desired death count is achieved...  again I have no fricken idea how this is carried out...
I have read scientists haven't figured out *HOW* nitrite kills botulism...  they know it does..  they can't find the little buggers after normal meat processing...


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## mike1ranger

daveomak said:


> For example, a "*5*-*log* *reduction*" means lowering the number of microorganisms by 100,000-fold, that is, if a surface has 100,000 pathogenic microbes on it, a *5*-*log* *reduction* would reduce the number of microorganisms to one.
> 
> Each log reduction reduces the present bacteria by 90%....
> 
> The longer meat sits at a given temperature, the more the bacteria is reduced...
> The higher the temperature, the faster the bacteria is reduced...
> "Some" human pathogens, like those that make you sick, start to die at around 102-104 deg. F...  that's why you get a fever when ill...   It's your body trying to kill the invaders...
> 
> Below is an explanation of Pasteurizing milk...   from 145F to 300F... where the milk can be safely stored at room temp..
> http://www.milkfacts.info/Milk Processing/Heat Treatments and Pasteurization.htm
> 
> To try and answer your question in more detail, each food type has different bacteria of interest to kill...
> Those food groups are tested by injecting bacteria of interest, and "counted".. HOW ? you ask, shit if I know...
> Then they heat the food and hold it for a given time and count them again... and again... and again... until the desired death count is achieved...  again I have no fricken idea how this is carried out...
> I have read scientists haven't figured out *HOW* nitrite kills botulism...  they know it does..  they can't find the little buggers after normal meat processing...


Thanks, makes sense.  So, the table really is as simple as 28 minutes at 135 and you got safe meat...and when you're adding an extra hour or 2 at that temp you're as good as cooking to the standard 152.

Thanks again.


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## daveomak

mike1ranger said:


> and when you're adding an extra hour or 2 at that temp you're as good as cooking to the standard 152.



I don't think so...  I think I'm increasing the number of dead bacteria to maybe a 10-6th or 10-7th log reduction in active bacteria.. bacteria that were still alive at 28 minutes..  If they start dying at 130, then my way of thinking, they are still dying..  AND the meat is not overcooked... like it would be at 150 or 160F...  and the fat hasn't liquefied and dripped out of the meat..
Cooking to 140 for 9 minutes is still a 5 log reduction..  
This food pasteurization is used in sous-vide..  I use it when making beef sticks primarily...  I want beef sticks that haven't fatted out.. 
Evidently, the USDA figures a 5 log reduction makes the specific meat outlined in the chart, safe to eat, from the specific bacteria listed..


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