# Please help - my brisket is a total disaster



## smokechump (Mar 10, 2017)

Dear members, please please help.  I made brisket, trying to follow popular instructions and recipes and it turned out to be a disaster.  Please help me understand what I did wrong

1) I bought prime grade brisket in Costco and separated flat from the point and just took the flat.

2) I trimmed the fat to suggested 1/4 inch

3) The night before I put a bit of worcestershire sauce and after that put base level of run - 4 table spoons of pepper, 4 table spoons of salt and 1 table spoon of brown suger

4) Then I put Montreal steak seasoning on top

Then, I injected it with beef broth and 2 table spoons of worcestershire sauce and soy sauce.  Then, I wrapped it in seran wrap and put into fridge overnight

At 9am next morning, I put the brisket into the smoker.  I did not wipe the brisket, dry it, etc.  Just put it in.  Smoker is at 225.  It took about 5 hours until meat reached 150.  And then it just sat there for 5 -6 hours at 150.  The flat is about 9lbs.  So not sure.  Given how long it took, I wrapped it at that point and after 3 hours it reached 195.  I took it out and rested for an hour.

Brisket is DRY and TOUGH....What did I do wrong?  Please please help


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## dirtworldmike (Mar 10, 2017)

Welcome to the site!

It sounds to me that you didn't cook it long enough by only letting it get to 195 IT.   Did you probe it with a wooden skewer at 195?  Brisket will be done when the skewer goes in like butter with little to no resistance. I also do Costco primes, and mine usually don't finish to "probe tender" until around 203 or a little higher.

Hope this helps and don't give up.


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 10, 2017)

smokechump said:


> Dear members, please please help.  I made brisket, trying to follow popular instructions and recipes and it turned out to be a disaster.  Please help me understand what I did wrong
> 
> 1) I bought prime grade brisket in Costco and separated flat from the point and just took the flat.
> 
> ...


First, welcome.  From what you've provided (but there's ton's more from what wasn't provided), some observations.

1.  No need to split the point from the flat at onset.  Point will help baste and keep the flat moist by letting gravity do its thing, as it's the fattier part of the brisket.

2.  OK, trim to 1/4".  Nothing wrong there.

3.  Kept it simple, same amounts of S&P, and toss some brown sugar in for good measure.  Nothing materially wrong there either.

4.  Montreal seasoning?  Didn't know Montreal was known for their brisket, but I might be mistaken.

Injecting a brisket is blasphemy, as there's no need:  whomever introduced this idea should be drawn and quartered.  Keep the whole intact, let it go 15+ hours if need be, and you'll be fine.  If it sits 3,4,5,6,7 hours, so what?  Each one is different, and it's going to be done when it says it's going to be done.  Sure, you can juice up the fire to complete it quicker, but you've lost the one thing that's in your favor to make it tender as can be:  time.  Higher heat and quicker times do not produce fork tender brisket, no matter how hard you try, how high you turn the heat, nor how far you want to set the clock ahead.

Now, as far as what you didn't provide:  location, ambient temp, what you're cooking with, etc., etc., etc.  If you want to get legit advice, you've got to paint a really accurate picture to get same advice.  My $0.02


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## smokechump (Mar 10, 2017)

Thank you for the response.  Ambient temp - about 40 degrees.  Smoker - SmokeVault (cheapo metal box).  

Given how dry my brisket turned out, I don't understand how I can make it moist.  Also, rub turned wet and mushy by morning (before smoking), which is result of salt.  Maybe I should have wiped it?


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 10, 2017)

Maybe dial back the salt to half the pepper amount.  Lea & Perrins has a ton of salt in it, and kill the Montreal stuff--unknown amounts of salt within.  Like I said, don't split the point from the half pre-cook:  The best moisture friend you've got?  The point sitting right on top of the flat.


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## ynot2k (Mar 11, 2017)

smokechump said:


> Thank you for the response. Ambient temp - about 40 degrees. Smoker - SmokeVault (cheapo metal box).
> 
> Given how dry my brisket turned out, I don't understand how I can make it moist. Also, rub turned wet and mushy by morning (before smoking), which is result of salt. Maybe I should have wiped it?


Here's how you can make it "moist".  Cook it until the collagen (the intramuscular fat) breaks down and turns to a gelatin-like consistency.  Then the brisket will be moist.  Without rendering the collagen you will end up with, well, dry brisket.  Undercooked brisket is dry.  Seems strange, but that is the fact.

Moisture on the outside of the brisket when you put it on the pit?  Should not be a problem - the heat and smoke will dry the outside and create bark during the smoking process.

Be patient.  Smoke until probe tender, so that a probe goes in like a hot knife through butter.  Even a brisket flat cooked alone can get there.  And please don't cook to temperature!  Collagen begins rendering at about 185, most experts agree.  Most experts also agree that no one can know for sure when the collagen is actually finished rendering - each brisket is different.  You can only tell by the probe test (or by "feeling" the brisket).  I've had briskets finish at an IT of anywhere between an It of 185 and 210.  They are done when they are done.  

It was your first brisket.  I've smoked thousands.  Please give it another try!

Jeff

Jeff's Texas Style BBQ

Marysville, WA


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 11, 2017)

YNOT2K said:


> Here's how you can make it "moist".  Cook it until the collagen (the intramuscular fat) breaks down and turns to a gelatin-like consistency.  Then the brisket will be moist.  Without rendering the collagen you will end up with, well, dry brisket.  Undercooked brisket is dry.  Seems strange, but that is the fact.
> 
> Moisture on the outside of the brisket when you put it on the pit?  Should not be a problem - the heat and smoke will dry the outside and create bark during the smoking process.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that too. Chump, take this man's word as gospel:  he knows his stuff.


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## boykjo (Mar 11, 2017)

YNOT2K said:


> smokechump said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for the response. Ambient temp - about 40 degrees. Smoker - SmokeVault (cheapo metal box).
> ...


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## smokechump (Mar 11, 2017)

Jeff
Here is the weird thing - outside of the brisket never "dried up".. wet, mushy stuff after overnight in the fridge never really hardened and even after 11 hrs the mushy mixture was still there.  Since I injected and also put salt/pepper - any chance salt drew so much moisture outside overnight that it prevented normal smoking/cooking process?


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## paul6 (Mar 11, 2017)

If you ever need your Brisket done at a certain time a fool proof  method I use is to . Set my offset up at 225 , while it is heating up I trim and rub the brisket . . Once the smoker is at temp I put the brisket on fat side down for an hour then flip and smoke an additional 3.5 hours , Put in a foil pan with a can of Beef Cosamine Soup and cover tight . Let it cook in the pan for 4 hours at 210 then take out , wrap and put in a towel packed cooler for at least 2 hours . While it rests you can pour the drippings in a bowl and place in the freezer until the fat gets hard and then reheat the Au Jus . With this method I never stick a probe in and check temps and it turns out perfect every time .

While I agree injection is not necessary for moisture except in very lean meats it is great for adding a flavor profile. If I want a really saucy BBQ beef there is nothing better then a can of Beer and cup of Sweet Baby Rays injected the night before .


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## smokechump (Mar 11, 2017)

I understand that some people like and favor injections and some are against.  My issue is that it seems that people are successful with both ways.  I am not trying to make competition level brisket.  I just want a decent one.  Mine just flat out sucked.  

So far it seems that I might have not heated it enough (should have waited till 200+ instead of 196)?  Is that the only frilly wrong thing people think I did?

What about all that mushy stuff (salt+seasoning) that never hardened on the outside of the brisket?


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## paul6 (Mar 11, 2017)

smokechump said:


> I understand that some people like and favor injections and some are against. My issue is that it seems that people are successful with both ways. I am not trying to make competition level brisket. I just want a decent one. Mine just flat out sucked.
> 
> So far it seems that I might have not heated it enough (should have waited till 200+ instead of 196)? Is that the only frilly wrong thing people think I did?
> 
> What about all that mushy stuff (salt+seasoning) that never hardened on the outside of the brisket?


The wet Mushy stuff I don't get ! Are you sure temp gauge is accurate ?  I am not familiar with the smoke vault . I have a MES that I bought as a toy ( Offset is my primary )and I cooked a chuck in it using a water pan , Now that was really nasty on the outside. With that said my 1st couple of Briskets could have been better used as door stops .


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## rexster314 (Mar 11, 2017)

It's almost sacrilege to divide up a Costco prime brisket. I did three briskets last month, one being a Costco prime. An old timer told me years ago, if you're brisket's not done after 10 hours, don't give up, it just needs more cooking. Lots of people on this thread say a brisket is done when it's done. That's right, each one is going to cook differently and you have to be aware of that.


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## smokechump (Mar 11, 2017)

Smoker - CampChef Smoke Vault

Wet, mushy stuff is salt/seasoning mix that I used as rub overnight.  I never took it off, just put it like that in the smoker

Re temp - pretty sure it's accurate, I used digital Maverick thermometer


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## ynot2k (Mar 13, 2017)

Mushy.  Hmmm.  Never experienced that.  But then of course I've never injected a brisket either.  Maybe that has something to do with it.  That's the only variable I really haven't had to deal with.

No need to inject ever.  Brisket has tons of collagen, the fat that lies between the muscle strands.  I so wish people would stop watching those darned BBQ competition shows on cable.  So much mis-information.

Check your temp gauges.  I doubt that's the issue but still check.

Send me a PM if you'd like more insights.  I may have a few more ideas with more information from you.

Jeff

Jeff's Texas Style BBQ

Marysville, WA


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## redrocker65200 (Mar 13, 2017)

I have a smoke vault as well. If you are using the gauge in the door to monitor the box temperature, mine was a good 20 degrees off. I use a second separate temp gauge to set the box temp. Basically, I drilled a small hole in a 2x4 and put the probe thru it. The gauge on the door is crap. I then have a blue tooth set up for the food I am cooking.  Seems everything I have done so far has taken more time than I thought it was going to take. But that is ok with me, as I usually do this with a beer in my hand and some tunes going.


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 13, 2017)

YNOT2K said:


> Mushy.  Hmmm.  Never experienced that.  But then of course I've never injected a brisket either.  Maybe that has something to do with it.  That's the only variable I really haven't had to deal with.
> 
> No need to inject ever.  Brisket has tons of collagen, the fat that lies between the muscle strands.  I so wish people would stop watching those darned BBQ competition shows on cable.  So much mis-information.
> 
> ...


Perhaps Jeff's 2nd paragraph wasn't clear enough:

_*"No need to inject ever.  Brisket has tons of collagen, the fat that lies between the muscle strands.  I so wish people would stop watching those darned BBQ competition shows on cable.  So much mis-information."*_

There, that should pretty well cover things.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress....


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## boykjo (Mar 14, 2017)

There's no need to inject a brisket....Injecting is a matter of preference. injecting can enhance the briskets flavor profile. Some of the best briskets Ive tasted were injected and there's nothing wrong with injecting if that's your thing.  IMHO you can ruin a brisket by over powering its natural flavor profile with strong seasonings.......An easy go to injection is Moores marinade. If I inject my briskets its usually just a light salt solution brine injection..... salt and cracked black pepper rub and into the smoker.

Here's another good source of information on cooking brisket.  http://www.smoking-meat.com/tag/brisket

Boykjo


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## gary s (Mar 14, 2017)

Sorry to hear that it didn't turn out.  But don't give up !!  Here are some of my Post that may help.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...r-the-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...st-on-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/243295/texas-style-brisket

Gary


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## sauced (Mar 15, 2017)

Yes, don't give up!! I think there was way too much salt going on, Montreal has tons of salt in it, you also salted the meat and L&P is loaded with salt. For me, no injections are needed. Also, I think the brisket was a bit under done. Always use the pierce method to determine doneness. Use the temp as a guide.

Best, to me anyway, are simple briskets. Coat with olive oil, salt & pepper.


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## smokechump (Mar 10, 2017)

Dear members, please please help.  I made brisket, trying to follow popular instructions and recipes and it turned out to be a disaster.  Please help me understand what I did wrong

1) I bought prime grade brisket in Costco and separated flat from the point and just took the flat.

2) I trimmed the fat to suggested 1/4 inch

3) The night before I put a bit of worcestershire sauce and after that put base level of run - 4 table spoons of pepper, 4 table spoons of salt and 1 table spoon of brown suger

4) Then I put Montreal steak seasoning on top

Then, I injected it with beef broth and 2 table spoons of worcestershire sauce and soy sauce.  Then, I wrapped it in seran wrap and put into fridge overnight

At 9am next morning, I put the brisket into the smoker.  I did not wipe the brisket, dry it, etc.  Just put it in.  Smoker is at 225.  It took about 5 hours until meat reached 150.  And then it just sat there for 5 -6 hours at 150.  The flat is about 9lbs.  So not sure.  Given how long it took, I wrapped it at that point and after 3 hours it reached 195.  I took it out and rested for an hour.

Brisket is DRY and TOUGH....What did I do wrong?  Please please help


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## dirtworldmike (Mar 10, 2017)

Welcome to the site!

It sounds to me that you didn't cook it long enough by only letting it get to 195 IT.   Did you probe it with a wooden skewer at 195?  Brisket will be done when the skewer goes in like butter with little to no resistance. I also do Costco primes, and mine usually don't finish to "probe tender" until around 203 or a little higher.

Hope this helps and don't give up.


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 10, 2017)

smokechump said:


> Dear members, please please help.  I made brisket, trying to follow popular instructions and recipes and it turned out to be a disaster.  Please help me understand what I did wrong
> 
> 1) I bought prime grade brisket in Costco and separated flat from the point and just took the flat.
> 
> ...


First, welcome.  From what you've provided (but there's ton's more from what wasn't provided), some observations.

1.  No need to split the point from the flat at onset.  Point will help baste and keep the flat moist by letting gravity do its thing, as it's the fattier part of the brisket.

2.  OK, trim to 1/4".  Nothing wrong there.

3.  Kept it simple, same amounts of S&P, and toss some brown sugar in for good measure.  Nothing materially wrong there either.

4.  Montreal seasoning?  Didn't know Montreal was known for their brisket, but I might be mistaken.

Injecting a brisket is blasphemy, as there's no need:  whomever introduced this idea should be drawn and quartered.  Keep the whole intact, let it go 15+ hours if need be, and you'll be fine.  If it sits 3,4,5,6,7 hours, so what?  Each one is different, and it's going to be done when it says it's going to be done.  Sure, you can juice up the fire to complete it quicker, but you've lost the one thing that's in your favor to make it tender as can be:  time.  Higher heat and quicker times do not produce fork tender brisket, no matter how hard you try, how high you turn the heat, nor how far you want to set the clock ahead.

Now, as far as what you didn't provide:  location, ambient temp, what you're cooking with, etc., etc., etc.  If you want to get legit advice, you've got to paint a really accurate picture to get same advice.  My $0.02


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## smokechump (Mar 10, 2017)

Thank you for the response.  Ambient temp - about 40 degrees.  Smoker - SmokeVault (cheapo metal box).  

Given how dry my brisket turned out, I don't understand how I can make it moist.  Also, rub turned wet and mushy by morning (before smoking), which is result of salt.  Maybe I should have wiped it?


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 10, 2017)

Maybe dial back the salt to half the pepper amount.  Lea & Perrins has a ton of salt in it, and kill the Montreal stuff--unknown amounts of salt within.  Like I said, don't split the point from the half pre-cook:  The best moisture friend you've got?  The point sitting right on top of the flat.


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## ynot2k (Mar 11, 2017)

smokechump said:


> Thank you for the response. Ambient temp - about 40 degrees. Smoker - SmokeVault (cheapo metal box).
> 
> Given how dry my brisket turned out, I don't understand how I can make it moist. Also, rub turned wet and mushy by morning (before smoking), which is result of salt. Maybe I should have wiped it?


Here's how you can make it "moist".  Cook it until the collagen (the intramuscular fat) breaks down and turns to a gelatin-like consistency.  Then the brisket will be moist.  Without rendering the collagen you will end up with, well, dry brisket.  Undercooked brisket is dry.  Seems strange, but that is the fact.

Moisture on the outside of the brisket when you put it on the pit?  Should not be a problem - the heat and smoke will dry the outside and create bark during the smoking process.

Be patient.  Smoke until probe tender, so that a probe goes in like a hot knife through butter.  Even a brisket flat cooked alone can get there.  And please don't cook to temperature!  Collagen begins rendering at about 185, most experts agree.  Most experts also agree that no one can know for sure when the collagen is actually finished rendering - each brisket is different.  You can only tell by the probe test (or by "feeling" the brisket).  I've had briskets finish at an IT of anywhere between an It of 185 and 210.  They are done when they are done.  

It was your first brisket.  I've smoked thousands.  Please give it another try!

Jeff

Jeff's Texas Style BBQ

Marysville, WA


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 11, 2017)

YNOT2K said:


> Here's how you can make it "moist".  Cook it until the collagen (the intramuscular fat) breaks down and turns to a gelatin-like consistency.  Then the brisket will be moist.  Without rendering the collagen you will end up with, well, dry brisket.  Undercooked brisket is dry.  Seems strange, but that is the fact.
> 
> Moisture on the outside of the brisket when you put it on the pit?  Should not be a problem - the heat and smoke will dry the outside and create bark during the smoking process.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that too. Chump, take this man's word as gospel:  he knows his stuff.


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## boykjo (Mar 11, 2017)

YNOT2K said:


> smokechump said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for the response. Ambient temp - about 40 degrees. Smoker - SmokeVault (cheapo metal box).
> ...


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## smokechump (Mar 11, 2017)

Jeff
Here is the weird thing - outside of the brisket never "dried up".. wet, mushy stuff after overnight in the fridge never really hardened and even after 11 hrs the mushy mixture was still there.  Since I injected and also put salt/pepper - any chance salt drew so much moisture outside overnight that it prevented normal smoking/cooking process?


----------



## paul6 (Mar 11, 2017)

If you ever need your Brisket done at a certain time a fool proof  method I use is to . Set my offset up at 225 , while it is heating up I trim and rub the brisket . . Once the smoker is at temp I put the brisket on fat side down for an hour then flip and smoke an additional 3.5 hours , Put in a foil pan with a can of Beef Cosamine Soup and cover tight . Let it cook in the pan for 4 hours at 210 then take out , wrap and put in a towel packed cooler for at least 2 hours . While it rests you can pour the drippings in a bowl and place in the freezer until the fat gets hard and then reheat the Au Jus . With this method I never stick a probe in and check temps and it turns out perfect every time .

While I agree injection is not necessary for moisture except in very lean meats it is great for adding a flavor profile. If I want a really saucy BBQ beef there is nothing better then a can of Beer and cup of Sweet Baby Rays injected the night before .


----------



## smokechump (Mar 11, 2017)

I understand that some people like and favor injections and some are against.  My issue is that it seems that people are successful with both ways.  I am not trying to make competition level brisket.  I just want a decent one.  Mine just flat out sucked.  

So far it seems that I might have not heated it enough (should have waited till 200+ instead of 196)?  Is that the only frilly wrong thing people think I did?

What about all that mushy stuff (salt+seasoning) that never hardened on the outside of the brisket?


----------



## paul6 (Mar 11, 2017)

smokechump said:


> I understand that some people like and favor injections and some are against. My issue is that it seems that people are successful with both ways. I am not trying to make competition level brisket. I just want a decent one. Mine just flat out sucked.
> 
> So far it seems that I might have not heated it enough (should have waited till 200+ instead of 196)? Is that the only frilly wrong thing people think I did?
> 
> What about all that mushy stuff (salt+seasoning) that never hardened on the outside of the brisket?


The wet Mushy stuff I don't get ! Are you sure temp gauge is accurate ?  I am not familiar with the smoke vault . I have a MES that I bought as a toy ( Offset is my primary )and I cooked a chuck in it using a water pan , Now that was really nasty on the outside. With that said my 1st couple of Briskets could have been better used as door stops .


----------



## rexster314 (Mar 11, 2017)

It's almost sacrilege to divide up a Costco prime brisket. I did three briskets last month, one being a Costco prime. An old timer told me years ago, if you're brisket's not done after 10 hours, don't give up, it just needs more cooking. Lots of people on this thread say a brisket is done when it's done. That's right, each one is going to cook differently and you have to be aware of that.


----------



## smokechump (Mar 11, 2017)

Smoker - CampChef Smoke Vault

Wet, mushy stuff is salt/seasoning mix that I used as rub overnight.  I never took it off, just put it like that in the smoker

Re temp - pretty sure it's accurate, I used digital Maverick thermometer


----------



## ynot2k (Mar 13, 2017)

Mushy.  Hmmm.  Never experienced that.  But then of course I've never injected a brisket either.  Maybe that has something to do with it.  That's the only variable I really haven't had to deal with.

No need to inject ever.  Brisket has tons of collagen, the fat that lies between the muscle strands.  I so wish people would stop watching those darned BBQ competition shows on cable.  So much mis-information.

Check your temp gauges.  I doubt that's the issue but still check.

Send me a PM if you'd like more insights.  I may have a few more ideas with more information from you.

Jeff

Jeff's Texas Style BBQ

Marysville, WA


----------



## redrocker65200 (Mar 13, 2017)

I have a smoke vault as well. If you are using the gauge in the door to monitor the box temperature, mine was a good 20 degrees off. I use a second separate temp gauge to set the box temp. Basically, I drilled a small hole in a 2x4 and put the probe thru it. The gauge on the door is crap. I then have a blue tooth set up for the food I am cooking.  Seems everything I have done so far has taken more time than I thought it was going to take. But that is ok with me, as I usually do this with a beer in my hand and some tunes going.


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## gr0uch0 (Mar 13, 2017)

YNOT2K said:


> Mushy.  Hmmm.  Never experienced that.  But then of course I've never injected a brisket either.  Maybe that has something to do with it.  That's the only variable I really haven't had to deal with.
> 
> No need to inject ever.  Brisket has tons of collagen, the fat that lies between the muscle strands.  I so wish people would stop watching those darned BBQ competition shows on cable.  So much mis-information.
> 
> ...


Perhaps Jeff's 2nd paragraph wasn't clear enough:

_*"No need to inject ever.  Brisket has tons of collagen, the fat that lies between the muscle strands.  I so wish people would stop watching those darned BBQ competition shows on cable.  So much mis-information."*_

There, that should pretty well cover things.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress....


----------



## boykjo (Mar 14, 2017)

There's no need to inject a brisket....Injecting is a matter of preference. injecting can enhance the briskets flavor profile. Some of the best briskets Ive tasted were injected and there's nothing wrong with injecting if that's your thing.  IMHO you can ruin a brisket by over powering its natural flavor profile with strong seasonings.......An easy go to injection is Moores marinade. If I inject my briskets its usually just a light salt solution brine injection..... salt and cracked black pepper rub and into the smoker.

Here's another good source of information on cooking brisket.  http://www.smoking-meat.com/tag/brisket

Boykjo


----------



## gary s (Mar 14, 2017)

Sorry to hear that it didn't turn out.  But don't give up !!  Here are some of my Post that may help.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...r-the-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...st-on-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/243295/texas-style-brisket

Gary


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## sauced (Mar 15, 2017)

Yes, don't give up!! I think there was way too much salt going on, Montreal has tons of salt in it, you also salted the meat and L&P is loaded with salt. For me, no injections are needed. Also, I think the brisket was a bit under done. Always use the pierce method to determine doneness. Use the temp as a guide.

Best, to me anyway, are simple briskets. Coat with olive oil, salt & pepper.


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