# A Basic Question About Wood Smokers



## docash (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi Everybody,

I am brand new at this, so forgive me if my questions are pretty basic but I don't know anyone who is into smoking and so I'm depending on the internet to have my questions answered.

I am looking at trying my hand at a wood smoker.  My question is does the size of the firebox change the amount of wood needed to maintain temperature in the cooking box?  Likewise, does getting a smoker with an insulated firebox cut down on the amount of fuel needed to maintain temperature?

The reason I ask is from what I can tell, the more quality units out there (Lang, Meadow Creek, Yoder, etc...) tend to regulate temperature without having to babysit the fire quite as often, right?  Problem is I live in Arizona and if I want to barbecue in the summer it can be over 100 degrees outside.  Just curious as to how often I'm going to tend the fire.  Do I need to be right there on the patio all day, or will it regulate temperature enough that I can check on it every half hour to hour or so?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions--I have plenty more.

BEAR DOWN!


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## daveomak (Apr 26, 2012)

Cash, morning...._  _

_My question is does the size of the firebox change the amount of wood needed to maintain temperature in the cooking box?_

If you are thinking of the difference between a 200 vs. 500 gallon smoker...  Yes the 500 needs more wood.... The fire box / cooking box are built as a ratio in size.... below is a calculator that shows the ratio to build a successful wood smoker... The fire box is generally 1/3 the cook chamber

http://www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.html

_  Likewise, does getting a smoker with an insulated firebox cut down on the amount of fuel needed to maintain temperature?_

I would think, insulating the cook chamber would have more effect on reducing the wood consumption and maintaining temperature due to its size...

What type of a wood smoker you thinking of and what size ???  

Dave


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## Dutch (Apr 26, 2012)

If you get a wood burner, once you reach your desired chamber temp, plan on adding a split or two about every hour. I run the Lang 60D and that is pretty much stanard from smoke to smoke but in the winter time I find myself adding a split or two about every 30 minutes.  Where as you're in Arizona you shouldn't have to worry about smoking in the snow.


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## docash (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi Dave, 
Thanks for the info--not really sure yet what type of smoker I'm going to get. I'm considering a Lang 48 Deluxe or a Yoder Durango 20" (which both seem similar in size from what I can tell online). I've also looked at similar sized Meadow Creek smokers, but not really sure if they are worth the extra expense. Do you have any opinions on any of those models?  Are you happy with your Lang?  Am I going to notice a difference between the reverse flow smoker and a more traditional model?  Thanks for any input. 
Aaron
BEAR DOWN!


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## daveomak (Apr 26, 2012)

Aaron, morning.....  Each smoker has it's learning curve.... Once you become comfortable and learn the "quirks" of your smoker, you will make great Q....  Members will stop in here and describe their particular smoker to help you out....  Dutch has a Lang 60D and likes it... I have a homemade direct heat smoker I built 20 yrs ago and I like it... I learned to smoke on it so it's 2nd nature to me.....   I also have a MES 30 which I have been using for over a year, and am finally learning it's quirks.... 

If I was to build another smoker, I would build a reverse flow..... Only because I like the design and it would be a challenge.... Dave


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## Dutch (Apr 26, 2012)

Aaron, I don't know if Dave runs a Lang or not but I'll answer your question.

You won't find a lot of difference taste wise between a regular off set pit and the reverse flow pit. What you will find is that because of the reverse flow plate in the Lang, things will get done quicker. The rf plate absorbs the heat coming off of the fire box and radiates that heat up into the bottom of whatever you are smoking while the smoke and heat coming over the top will take care of the rest. With my Lang a 10 lb. brisket will take about 12 hrs where as my buddy's regular off set and a 10 lb. brisket will 15 hrs. That is with both units running at 250° and not doing a foil wrap during the cooking. YMMV~

I too was looking at the Lang 48 but when I took into account the number of kids, their spouses and the grandkids, that come to the house for family suppers, I'd be cooking for a crowd of 16-20 ppl depending if they all showed up. I also do some Que catering on the side so the 60 is what I went with and I've been very happy with it. If I'm cooking for Ma, myself and the two still at home lads, then I use the GOSM.


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## docash (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks to both of you for your answers. 

Dave, do you find there is a significant difference in temps from one end of your smoker to the other?  Would you recommend having a custom unit built over something like a Lang?  I know of a local guy who has built smokers, but I don't know of anyone who can vouch for his work. Probably could get it done cheaper that way, but I've tended to find you get what you pay for. 

Likewise Dutch, would you buy a Lang again or would you go with a different brand?  Your Lang has a reservoir for a water pan above the drain right?  Do you like/use that feature?

Thanks again for your help. 
Aaron


BEAR DOWN!


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## Dutch (Apr 26, 2012)

Aaron, I can close the drain valve and fill the RF tray with water if I wanted a moist cooking environment but I haven't done that yet. My Lang is fairly even from side to side with the fire box side about 15-20° hotter because of the fire box.  Raising/lowering the hitch end will even out the temps more. I've got hitch end down about a half bubble.

If I ever need another smoker or make the move to a larger unit, I'd go with a Lang again.


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## alblancher (Apr 26, 2012)

Don't forget,  the mop and drippings from the meat hit that RF plate and vaporize.  I really like the way the Lang recycles the moisture.  Never had the need to fill the smoker with water.  Even dry wood has a lot of water in it.


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## solaryellow (Apr 26, 2012)

I have a 500 gal RF and have never had a reason to include a water pan. Like Al, the meat cooking adds more than enough moisture to the atmosphere. As for efficiency, I add a log every 20 to 30 minutes.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## docash (Apr 26, 2012)

Again, thanks everyone for the answers. 

I've never actually mopped, I've only smoked using an electric smoker and the person who showed me how told me to never open the door (to prevent heat and moisture loss). So I've always done it that way (with a water pan). Obviously the wood chips don't hold as much water as splits, but my new question is doesn't opening the door on the smoker cause the temperature to fluctuate significantly?  Do you wait to open until the temp on the cooking chamber goes up, or does it maintain enough of a constant temp that it doesn't really matter. Or is that why you are adding splits every 30 min to an hour?

Thanks again!
Aaron


BEAR DOWN!


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## docash (Apr 26, 2012)

Also Solaryellow, if you don't mind me asking is your RF smoker a custom build or did you buy it from a company? 
Just wondering the difference between you adding wood every 20-30 min and Dutch adding every hour or so. 

Thanks again. 
Aaron. 


BEAR DOWN!


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## alblancher (Apr 26, 2012)

AAron,  a good smoker will recover pretty quick.  The better smokers have a lot of steel and once it gets hot it really helps keep the chamber steady.  I don't open that often but I will not allow a piece of meat to cook unevenly because I was worried about opening the door.  I don't mop that much either but I do mop.


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## whittling chip (Apr 26, 2012)

It's custom. Here's the link to his build. I bookmarked it to use some of the ideas on a build I'm getting ready to start.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/105448/rf-build-in-slow-motion-on-to-phase-2-building-burners

WC


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## solaryellow (Apr 26, 2012)

Docash said:


> Also Solaryellow, if you don't mind me asking is your RF smoker a custom build or did you buy it from a company?
> Just wondering the difference between you adding wood every 20-30 min and Dutch adding every hour or so.
> 
> Thanks again.
> ...


It is custom built and is fairly big Docash. Here is the build thread:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/105448/rf-build-in-slow-motion-on-to-phase-2-building-burners

And a picture to give you an idea how big it is:














There are a lot of reasons why mine is different from Dutch's or anyone elses. That includes material thickness, volume of the smoker, type of smoker, weather conditions, etc. All things being equal, tossing in log every 20 - 30 minutes is VERY efficient for the size smoker we built.


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## solaryellow (Apr 26, 2012)

Whittling Chip said:


> It's custom. Here's the link to his build. I bookmarked it to use some of the ideas on a build I'm getting ready to start.
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/105448/rf-build-in-slow-motion-on-to-phase-2-building-burners
> 
> WC


You beat me to it WC.


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## whittling chip (Apr 26, 2012)

solaryellow said:


> You beat me to it WC.


Your build is bookmarked. I love reading it. I'm working on a MUCH smaller build.







WC


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## docash (Apr 26, 2012)

All I can say is WOW!  I missed the 500 gallon part of your post.  Thanks for the link to the build--that's pretty cool. 

So I guess the question I have left (for now) is if you were a beginner and going to get your first smoker/cooker, is there anyone who would prefer to get a direct heat model to a reverse flow?  I've done a cursory search on the forums and it would appear the only disadvantage to an RF smoker is the price.  It would also seem that this forum is fairly pro-Lang Smokers. Is there a subset of smokers on this forum who have alternate opinions that I haven't found yet?  It isn't that I don't value the pro-Lang opinions (in fact I am extremely grateful for all your help--it's hard being a newbie) its just a serious investment and I want my research to be thorough. 

Is there anyone out there that would recommend I start on a direct heat model? 

 If I am looking at something like a Lang 48, I'm hoping it's a lifetime purchase--just don't want to spend the money only to find out later more people swear by more traditional models. 

Thanks again for everybody's answers (and patience). 

Aaron




BEAR DOWN!


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## solaryellow (Apr 26, 2012)

I would go with an RF every time. The cost may be a little bit more, but the output is consistent across all racks. You will not find that to be the case in an offset. Whether it is Lang, Bubba, backyard built, or whoever, go RF.


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## alblancher (Apr 26, 2012)

What is the difference in cost between the RF and direct heat models?   If is enough to justify buying the direct heat model then upgrading down the road?   Because you will want to upgrade.  If you purchase an inexpensive smaller direct heat now and plan on purchasing a larger RF.   I have a Lang 36 and with shipping it was about a grand delivered to New Orleans area


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## docash (Apr 27, 2012)

As someone who is new to smoking, I figure there is a learning curve. If I were to get a direct heat smoker would the skills I learn translate to an RF smoker, or would I basically be starting over from scratch?


BEAR DOWN!


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## alblancher (Apr 27, 2012)

It's really not that complicated,  I think you will have a harder time using a direct heat smoker then a RF because the heat isn't as even.  I learned on an ECB, probably the most difficult, then moved to a side car   a whole different set of problems and I now have the small Lang.  The Lang is a lot easier then any of the other types


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## docash (Apr 27, 2012)

I just spoke with Ben Lang today and we were talking about the 36 hybrid versus a patio 48. I'm limited in how big the unit can be to get it into my backyard (I have to take it through my front door to get it in the backyard). Anyway, not sure I want to part with a charcoal grill yet (and he confirmed you can grill on the smoker but it's not really what it's best at). Are you happy with the size (I'm assuming by small you mean the 36?).   Do you find its big enough for what you need (I never cook for more than 10 people)  Are you happy with your Lang?  Have you tried grilling with it, and if so how was it?  Any info you could give me about the small Lang would be great!

Thanks again!


BEAR DOWN!


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## alblancher (Apr 27, 2012)

Let me look around for an older thead that I posted about what the Lang 36 will hold.


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## alblancher (Apr 27, 2012)

Let me know if this helps

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/109576/how-much-does-a-lang-36-hold


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## whittling chip (Apr 27, 2012)

alblancher said:


> Let me know if this helps
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/109576/how-much-does-a-lang-36-hold


That's a really great post.  I'm glad you threw it up again. A lot of great points.

WC


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## oldschoolbbq (May 22, 2012)

Docash , read this : http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/search.php?search=Wood+Burning+101

Se if that helps, have fun and...


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## icemanrrc (May 22, 2012)

The Hybrid is double the price of the standard 36!!! That is an aweful expensive grill to add on!!! I will stick with my 36 and a Weber......


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## whittling chip (May 23, 2012)

icemanrrc said:


> The Hybrid is double the price of the standard 36!!! That is an aweful expensive grill to add on!!! I will stick with my 36 and a Weber......


I'm not sure that information is completely correct. Call Ben Lang and get a quote.

I ordered a Lang 36" Hybrid a couple of weeks ago and it is currently on the production line with another SMF member's unit bound for Arizona.

Today I talked to Lang and they said both our 36"'s will be complete by this Friday and ready to ship. The other unit going down the production line is being built has a custom width of 34" so it can fit through a door.

Many things are pricey but sometimes you get what you pay for.

I'll post some pics after delivery next week and I'm sure the happy smoker from Arizona will do the same!

WC


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## docash (May 24, 2012)

Yep, I spoke with Ben this morning too. Mine is actually the custom 34 inch unit (have to fit it through the front door of my house to get it onto my patio). I liked the hybrid design because of the fact that it consolidates all my smoking/grilling into one unit--nice for someone like me whose space is limited. Can't wait to get it--hopefully I can find some wood once it gets here!  Not a lot of it sitting around down here on the desert. 


BEAR DOWN!


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## icemanrrc (May 24, 2012)

Whittling Chip said:


> I'm not sure that information is completely correct. Call Ben Lang and get a quote.
> 
> I ordered a Lang 36" Hybrid a couple of weeks ago and it is currently on the production line with another SMF member's unit bound for Arizona.
> 
> ...


Ben is the one who quoted me that price. He said $1895 or thereabouts for the 36 Hybrid, which makes sense after looking at the website at the 48 and 48 hybrid..... Look at their website at the 48 patio. It's $1,595. The Hybrid version is $3,445. You are talking almost twice the price for a warmer and a charcoal grill...... That's is waaaaaaay crazy!!!! Geez, you could buy two 48 regular patios for that!!!  Do you realize you can get a freakin 60 Deluxe for that price?????? You could almost buy a 84 original !!!!!


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## gatewood iron (May 26, 2012)

Last night I posted on this thread and found out that I unknowingly advertised myself. I apologize for this because I know there are paid advertisers who support this great site.If I could afford it,I would advertise here also. Rest assured this will not happen again. Once again I apologize.


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