# What went wrong with this batch?



## SCBBQ (Aug 13, 2022)

Sorry that I don't have a full set of facts on this issue to present... Lots and lots of distractions over the past 8 months have slowed down my newest hobby of sausage making. To that end, I had produced a few 50 pound batches almost a year ago that I put up in a modified cabinet that seemed to check out fine. 

Over the time, I would occasionally check the temp and humidity level and it had no issues.  Just yesterday I finally pulled out two batches that had been in there for plenty of time. No black or green mold , only a nice white coating of the mold 600 still visible. I cut the thicker beef bung 4" casings off and discarded them. 

The sausage's (all of them) feel spongy and not firm like my previous batches. They also feel like they have a higher moisture content especially on the outside.  Like I said, these have been in the cabinet for almost a year at this point. I hate that I didn't weigh them yesterday and already have removed the tags. I'm not sure that data would mean anything anyways after such a long curing time. 

Has this happened to anyone else? Any thoughts? I think some of these were Calabrian pepper and I used canned sauce for the pepper addition so perhaps too wet of a mix perhaps? I don't remember it being that way but just guessing. They don't look that appetizing.


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

SCBBQ said:


> The sausage's (all of them) feel spongy and not firm like my previous batches. They also feel like they have a higher moisture content especially on the outside. Like I said, these have been in the cabinet for almost a year at this point. I hate that I didn't weigh them yesterday and already have removed the tags. I'm not sure that data would mean anything anyways after such a long curing time.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else? Any thoughts? I think some of these were Calabrian pepper and I used canned sauce for the pepper addition so perhaps too wet of a mix perhaps? I don't remember it being that way but just guessing. They don't look that appetizing.


Still wet on the outside, and not the inside.......hmmmm.....airflow should be fine then.

Ah...Calabrese WITH pepper sauce. That might be your issue right there. What recipe did you use? How much sauce did you use? What brand? becasue some Calabrian pepper sauces have acid in them for canning and those are not the ones you want to use. You need one preserved with only salt where the can has been pressure canned and pasteurized....no acid. Only a few are made like this. The Craft Butcher's Pantry use to carry them both hot and sweet...but I don't know if they are having supply chain issues.

Please post a cross section cut picture and the recipe you used.


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## SCBBQ (Aug 13, 2022)

I know it's a cardinal sin but I can't find the recipe I used - I hired a full time chef for the house and he reorganized my pantry and documents etc are all who knows where.  First world problems I guess but coming back into the game a year later makes it hard to figure out. That's why I started the thread with an apology about not having all the info. 

this is the can I used. 









						Imepa/Marinella Brand Hot Pepper Paste (bulk 800g can) - Craft Butchers' Pantry
					






					butcherspantry.com
				




And last, while this might be part of the reason, ALL of this batch are spongy and moist - not just the Calabrian ones.  

Just wondering if there's a way to dry them out at this point? The walk in cooler that they are now in seems to be pretty humid for some reason.  Maybe my two steak ager cabinets without adding water is the way to go.


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

Well, without the weights, you really don't know how dry they are. And without the recipe, not much help there. If all the salami are soft, that points to issues. Was this batch all made at the same time? All ground the same? There are a number of possible flaws that could have caused this. 1.Tainted meat from the start, or meat with too low pH, which points to issues with how it was handled/slaughtered. 2. Fat smear during processing making the salami which allowed melted fat to envelope the meat particles and trap in moisture.....but you would get casing separation usually if this was the case...more pics. would help with this. 3. Bad fat from the get go making the salami...as in this was how the pig was fed...which accelerated the breakdown of the fat through lipolysis into fatty acids. 4. Too high humidity during drying which stopped moisture loss....

That's all I got right now. Need pics. of cross section....


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## SmokinEdge (Aug 13, 2022)

^^^^^^^ 
Would add dry ring from to much air speed or low humidity or both.


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

SCBBQ said:


> Just wondering if there's a way to dry them out at this point? The walk in cooler that they are now in seems to be pretty humid for some reason. Maybe my two steak ager cabinets without adding water is the way to go.


You can try re-wrapping with collagen sheet tightly and rehang to dry further. Or if space is an issue, you can try vacsealing in umai bags and transfer to a regular refrigerator. But a steak aging  cabinet should have settings for salami....55*F; 75-80%RH.....but I would lower to 70-75 since the pieces are already in advanced stage of drying....this will pull moisture out better since the Aw of the salami is lower than new pieces.


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## SCBBQ (Aug 13, 2022)

Thanks guys - really appreciate the help! 

 I'll report back on Monday and take a picture of a cross section on a couple.


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

Good read...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSE_meat


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

One other thought...
What type of fat did you use in making the salami? And did you take care to remove all the intermuscular fat? That is bad fat for salami making as it will smear extremely easily and breaks down too fast. Belly fat in small percentages is ok and actually desirable in some Nothern Italain salami like Peidmonte...BUT...it must be cut very carefully or it will cause problems.

Also-if you overworked the mince, by hand, that will cause the issues you are having....fat out from too warm temps and fat integrity degraded.


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## SCBBQ (Aug 13, 2022)

Thanks again - very much - The biggest problem is it's been year ago and I just don't remember much of what I used. Conversely, it appears to be only these large diameter ones, (which is all that was left in the fridge), so I'm questioning perhaps the beef bung casings perhaps. I (think) I turned them inside out before stuffing, per something I read, but again, can't remember for sure. Maybe that wasn't the right thing to do and that's the issue. I don't have similar issues with any smaller chubs and those are hog casings.. I've been using good iberico from white pasture mostly, so I don't think it was the meat. I cubed up iberico fat, and admittedly put too much In, as it doesn't shrink like the protein does. Lesson learned there.  At this point, I'm trying to tie them back up in twine to hang them tomorrow or Monday in the steak ager. I'll cut some then and share pics of the cross section.


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

SCBBQ said:


> I cubed up iberico fat, and admittedly put too much In,


Well that can contribute to softness significantly...fat only has about 15% water so when you add a lot, there is less water in the salami to lose. Lean typically has around 75% water.

100grams of a mince 72/28 lean to fat has 55.5grams of water in it.

With the higher fat content, if close to 50/50, the salami may not lose any more water...as it only has 45 grams of water/100grams of mince in it. So if you are arounf 35%, then there is only 10grams water /100g salami left in it......


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

The spreadable salamis use 70-80% fat to keep them soft and only need to lose 15% weight to be shelf stable. And 20% is about the max you will pull out.

30/70 ratio lean to fat has 33.5grams/100 water. You are not going to lose 35% no matter how long you age it.


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## indaswamp (Aug 13, 2022)

...there is also a lot less salt soluble proteins with higher fat ratios so less binding of proteins will occur...and the salami will be softer.....


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## SCBBQ (Aug 15, 2022)

alright hope everyone is having a good Monday. 

I'm rolling these sausages in one layer of cheese cloth, tying each end to hang, and placing in the curing cabinet again, a different set of cabinets I originally had that are the steak ager ones with humidification. For this time, I'm planning to not add water for humidification. I need to take out moisture for sure on these chubs. The outside appears to have cured nice, but as it gets towards the outer ring, it's kind of spongy and wet feeling. I'm hoping there's still a rescue for all of this batch or two.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

That is definitely from too high humidity....100% no doubt.

Did you have a way to control the humidity? Did you have a way to measure the humidity? The light color ring on the outside is what is called 'grey ring'. The mold and bacteria were too active and accelerated the breakdown of proteins and fats. That part will have some serious off flavors....and probably had secondary fermentation from wild bacteria. I would question the safety of that salami because you have no idea when (or if) it lost 30% to be safe. Further drying will not improve it....the damage has already been done.

How much product did you have hanging? sometimes high humidity is from too much product in a small space or hanging to closely together which impedes moisture removal creating extremely high humidity close to the surface of the product.

Were it me....I'd chunk them and start over.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

The salami is gooey and spongey from accelerated breakdown of fats and proteins. I can tell just by looking at it.... and how it is smearing on the board and your fingers....might could eat it. But no way to know for sure without lab testing. But it more than likely won't be enjoyable...


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

Take away form this to learn is that humidity control is extremely important. Whatever system you use to control humidity must be able to remove the moisture efficiently and effectively for the amount of salami you are drying. A full regular refrigerator with 25kilos of fresh salami will put out 300-350 grams of water in 24 hour period. You better have a serious dehumidification system to handle it....

For this reason, I do not recommend making huge batches all at once. much better to add product over time, 5kg at a time, so as not to overload the dehumidification system.


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## SCBBQ (Aug 15, 2022)

well crud- Ok I'll take your advise and chunk it today. Thanks so much for the quick reply. 
	

		
			
		

		
	















I've got a humidifier and controller on it to turn it off but perhaps it wasn't working right. I've got a secondary humidification analog gauge for back up and it was checked often in the beginning, not so much after 6 months. 

Here were the beginning chubs, found the date on the tags and looked back at pictures.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

If you are going to use natural large diameter casings, you need to truss them. either traditional hand wrapping or get the proper size compression netting. You need to bind them tightly. Many reasons for this...to apply pressure to squeeze moisture out as the fresh salamis ferment, to squeeze out trapped air pockets, to prevent gas pockets from forming voids within the salami, to prevent air gaps from forming on the hanging end just under the hanging loop, to prevent sagging which leads to non uniform shape and uneven drying, To prevent the salami from falling as the casing weakens from biological degradation. And to support the salami as a sturdy hanging point...the natural casing is only for surface protection on salami.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

This is the reason for concern an why I recommend tossing them...

Protolysis and lipolysis create ammonia. This is natural and unavoidable. Over time, as the salami ages, this ammonia that is released into the salami raises the pH slightly. If after fermentation the pH drops to 5.1, then you can expect the pH to rise to 5.3-5.4 when it is finished drying.

The problem from too high humidity for too long leads to over active breakdown of fats and proteins which leads to too much ammonia created too soon. This raises the pH too soon before the water activity is low enough for a safety hurdle. You now have high moisture and a more favorable pH for bad bacteria to flourish. I have seen instances where the pH had risen in the 6ish range...not good.

If you have a pH meter, check the pH of that outer gooey area...I'd like to know what it is......and you will learn from it.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

SCBBQ said:


> I've got a humidifier and controller on it to turn it off but perhaps it wasn't working right. I've got a secondary humidification analog gauge for back up and it was checked often in the beginning, not so much after 6 months.


Right....but do you have a way to remove moisture? What is your dehumidification system? You need a controllable way to remove moisture to dry salami properly. Adding humidity is easy......removing it is more difficult. And you need a way to remove it. Most home chambers use some sort of peltier dehumidifier....the Evi-dry is popular and effective as long as you don't overwhelm it with a shit load of new product. 5kg./week new product was about the max. for me in my old chamber....25kg. in the chamber total...some 45-55mm and some 60-65mm casings.....

If you are gonna make 50# at one time, you better have a dehumidification system that can handle 500-600 grams or more of water vapor in a 24 hour period.


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## SCBBQ (Aug 15, 2022)

Wow - I figured that's what the refrigerated cabinet with the fan running all the time did by nature (is take humidity out) - I've had good success over the past 2 years or so with 6 batch's so I feel like my system isn't. completely flawed. this batch just got added in the end of my marathon of making sausages before moving on to other priorities and as a result I'm not sure what happened in the cabinet to disallow correct drying. 

I'll look into the dehumidifier you are talking about. Will kind of be weird to have both a dehumidifier and a humidifier running in the same cabinet?

Rob


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## pineywoods (Aug 15, 2022)

Rob check out this thread kind of long but very good and might help

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...r-build-42cu-ft-stainless-double-door.314028/


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## SCBBQ (Aug 15, 2022)

Thanks - I bought a new True brand cabinet last year right before this batch and had my electrical modify it to control humidity with the wired in humidifier. the fan runs all the time.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)




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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)




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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)




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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

Controllers I was telling you about...


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

Tip: Don't place any salumi or salami within 4-5" of the humidity sensor for your controller or the product will give you a false humidity reading.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

Better build a chamber video:


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

SCBBQ said:


> Wow - I figured that's what the refrigerated cabinet with the fan running all the time did by nature (is take humidity out)


The refrigeration cycle does pull out moisture from condensation on the evaporator coil, but only when the cooling cycle is running. When it shuts off, the humidity will start climbing and if not removed by a dehumidifier, it will climb into the 90's as product hanging releases more humidity into the chamber. A controller with a humidifier and dehumidifier will keep the humidity within a low and high set point.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

Notice the spacing of salami in the last video I posted...... that is optimum...


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## SCBBQ (Aug 15, 2022)

Got it - I didn't understand before now that too high of humidity was bad.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

BTW...best book out there is The Art of Making Fermented Sausages by Stanley and Adam Marianski

You could throw the rest away and read only that one and learn how to do it properly. They discuss humidity and the effect it has on salami....both high and low... worth a reread for a primer if you are just getting back into it.

Also- 2-2.25 grams sugars. And no more (usually unless initial starting pH of the meat is above 5.8).. You really don't need more than that. A lot of people use way too much sugars. Rulhman included.


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

SCBBQ said:


> Got it - I didn't understand before now that too high of humidity was bad.


Yep. You don't want it above 85%...to slow drying, mold too active,  pH rises......which could create an environment favorable for bad bacteria to grow and create toxins. Try to keep it below 82%....


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## indaswamp (Aug 15, 2022)

Oh- one more suggestion...
If you want to hang more volume of product, use larger diameter casings. This will lower the surface area to weight ratio, which will slow down the amount of moisture being released per pound of product. (the water has father to travel to reach the surface, thus it moves slower...larger diameter). You could use 120mm (4.75") protein lined collagen casing, or even 100mm.....and get more product in your chamber and lower drying rates per pound.


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## indaswamp (Sep 5, 2022)

Listen to this guy.....


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## indaswamp (Sep 5, 2022)

Fermentation:


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## SCBBQ (Sep 5, 2022)

Good videos!


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## indaswamp (Sep 11, 2022)

With the amounts of sugars you were using in the past with these batches, and the high humidity, it is highly probable you had secondary fermentation from wild bacteria which resulted in the grey ring.


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