# Do you need a health dept license?



## workoutchamp

We are starting to book some gigs.  Do we need a health dept license?  What is entailed in smoke for hire?


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## Dutch

Law vary from state to state and even county to county. Check with the local health department of the locale in which you have gigs book. Also would be a good idea to take a Safeserve class or a food handlers class. The Safeserve of a bit more costly and time consuming but worth it if you are serious about any type of large mass cooking or catering.


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## yankeerob

I have found that most states REQUIRE a license and some go beyond that and require an inspection for every event. In addition to this you are going to want to get a registered business name/tax ID and insurance for that business. That way if someone sues you they can only go after your business's assets and not your personal property. Insurance ranges from $300 to $500 a year depending on what you already have for insurance.

Lastly the place where your event is held might have additional rules beyond the state level.

-rob


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## woodentrout

I'd start by paying the typical nominal state fee to form a LLC, then get some business liability insurance, probably $1 mill will cost you about $500 per year, and can be written to include all your equipment, transportation, and employees (i.e. you) for any business related activities.  As previously posted, check with the locals about health certificates.  Note that this may also vary if you cross county lines to do work in other locations.  Can't stress enough the need for safe food handlers class.  You'll learn alot of things, including tips from others on how to handle different situations.  It will also help with customers peace of mind.  Remember that once you start to sell it, you enter an entirely different world than cooking for family and friends at home, so take the proper steps now to avoid any problems later.

Good luck with your endeavor.


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## rivet

Couldn't have said it better. Most states will require certification of completion of the Safe Food Handler's (or similarly named) course. I've taken it in several states and the knowledge is worth the time. You'll be amazed how even your household practices will change from what you learn. If you have access to any HACCP training you might want to consider that too. Best of luck to you!


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## alx

We get one day catering licenses 3-4 times a year in maryland.Insurance would be a must.


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## vtanker

My wife wanted to do concessions for years and I finally gave in. We started with the out house races in Bowling green KY. I let her do her thing and I did mine. We have done about ten of those events in KY and we have never gotten a license or insurance. We were not required to get a license in KY and I haven't even considered Insurance. Never the less it is still your option!


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## travcoman45

Need ta check thins out with yer local an county health inspector.  Then get insurance unless ya wanna give somebody else yer home an everthin else ya got.

In my area I can do a cook fer hire with non-profit groups an not have the required license of a caterer.  This is a good way ta get started an test the waters.

Check on food safety courses with yer local ag extension office er college.


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## bbq bubba

Great advice.
Do it the way you want and when somebody gets Ill or worse, you can blame it on the outhouses. 

Not only wouldn't i admit to that but i wouldn't post it in an open forum.


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## bbq engineer

Great post...

I have been asked to do some events, and wouldn't even consider it because I knew that it would open me up to all kinds of liability simply because I would be serving the general public. I personally take great pride in the things that I do, the way I conduct myself, and the BBQ that I serve to my family and close personal friends...but even if you do nothing wrong, the situation changes dramatically when you start dealing with the general populus. We live in such a litigious society, that anything is fair game for someone to see an opening and come after you...don't give them a chance. Get the proper insurance, take the food handling class, and check with your local officials. You will never be regretful of doing it the right way.

Just my $.02

BBQ Eng.


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## crockadale

Every state has a dept. of professional regs. If you are serving food to the public for a price you need some kind of license. There are ways around this but ultimately you will be caught. In order to get a food service permit in most states you will need a sales Tax use #, an EIN and have passed a Servesafe course and pass a physical inspection.(your equipment). Get Insurance you don't want to give away everything you owne to some assh&^e that claims he got sick off of your food. there is a lot more but this will get you started.


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## workoutchamp

OK, checked in with the Health Dept.  Long story about how it came about, etc, but here it is in a nutshell - for MY county now:

License and inspections are required for a regular and consistent business operation.  

They are short staffed, so the state made us "one-day-event guys" exempt.

He recommended the class - which I will do.

He gave me coarse tips like don't use the meat ice for drinks, 40-140 is the danger zone, etc, etc.

No license needed.

He also told me about the "guy on the side of the road" license - there is some quirky law still in effect - you can buy a permit for 14 days, then you have to take off for 30 days, then you can be back on for 14, etc, etc.  Now that is my kind of job - work two weekends and take a month off.  :-)

Insurance will be forthcoming - smart and cheap.

Thank you all for this wonderful input and ideas - this forum is great.  Brad in KY


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## alx

Glad to hear that.As i posted earlier we get the one day license hear in maryland and it is no problem.Watching shows like kitchen nightmares it is amazing how filthy some places are-i think following protocols shows your standards are high-good luck.I helped a few vendors for free 15 years ago to get a feel for the procedures and what the inspectors look for when they draw down on yah.


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## rivet

Your food and your standards are a reflection on who you are. Maintain the highest and you will never go wrong. Folks can tell ithe difference, and if you care about them they will come back.


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## mgwerks

Let's just hope it isn't t he food that is making those people race for the outhouses!


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## mginani

I just spoke with the local health department and they said that they absolutely allow no cooking at home to be sold to the general public.  I asked about caterers who cook at home and bring the food to the location and they said that those people are out of compliance.  That's crazy.  Any of you deal with that issue?


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## bbq bubba

Yup, thats the law everywhere!
Thats what keeps the good guys in business and the "home" cooks out!


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## mginani

So all caterers have their own restaurant?


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## bbq bubba

All "legal" caterers have a restaurant or an approved kitchen they work out of.


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## mginani

In that case, I guess I am thankful that I am in a career where my success is not based on the government eliminating my competition.


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## alx

Also the reason many folks who compete in comps and cater have trailored rigs etc. that have hot water clean cooking areas etc.The two go hand in hand for mobility and great advertising and makes setting up for comps hell of alot easier- we have a 60 foot r.v. with roll down ramps and storage in back instead of master suite.Also equiped with full kitchen refrigeration hot water etc.Lot more to it then a lemonade stand-so to speak.


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## DanMcG

It's that way it is where I am in NY. Without inspection how do you know what the conditions are where the food was produced?


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## mginani

I have no problem with inspection, it's that you have to have a restaurant to cater food.


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## DanMcG

Well here you don't need a rerstaurant....just a place of business to prep your food.....could be a hole in the wall but as long as it will pass inspection you're good to go. You can sometimes find a tavern that doesn't use there kitchen and rent it, but it still has to be up to standards.


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## bbq bubba

You don't have to have a restaurant, you can cook on site.....

You just can't prep and cook somewhere else and then serve on site, no way to police everybodys home kitchen.


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## alx

Same way here.Friend of mine runs a roadside bbq out of a 25 foot wells fargo trailer-pull behind type-and cooks on site.He does this about every weekend during summer.He is inspected -including randomly.Its a mobile kitchen -smoker etc.I do 2-3 community association gigs same way and a large nursery that has customer appreciation day.


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## mginani

Thats what seemed ridiculous to me.  I asked about the trailers and cooking onsite and she said no.  She said you had to cook it at a restaurant kitchen.


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## azrocker

Makes sense you could have your smoker trailer checked. I knew a hot dog vendor in Phoenix who had a cart that was inspected and he had a food handler certificate.


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## bbq bubba

Your talking to the wrong person. 
Where is "here" anyways?


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## smokeguy

Check into the regulations that a Concession Stand would fall under.  You might be able to make those rules more easily.  Remember, you're doing all of your cooking outside, not in your kitchen.  That makes a BIG difference in my part of the world.


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## mginani

I just spoke with the health dept again (in Arlington, TX).  It seems pretty impossible.  Even a cart has to be located at a restaurant or business and be under their awning and can only sell hot dogs or corn dogs to receive a license.


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## garlic

I had my throw downs with the health departments here in NM, It took 3 years to get a mobile kitchen certified by them. Finally I obtained a State permit, not just a city or county one. If I cater on city or state property I must apply for another permit and inspections (Fire dept, propane inspectors, health department) of course they all have fees you have to pay to get the permits. The permit we hold is for food processing and vending. Insurance is about $400 per year for $1,000,000 of product liability (this is usually the minimum you need for a city or county gig).
BUT the conditions of my permit is that I can not run continous for more than 15 days, mobile only with no "land based commisary". Cooking on site is our preffered method any way. After everything is said and done it sure is nice to see a green sticker for your efforts.


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## mginani

Thanks, Garlic.  That is helpful.  That maybe the way to go.  Can you describe your mobile kitchen?  Is it actually like an RV?


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## garlic

I worked for Pepsi as a mechanic for a few years and they were rotating the consession trailers for sale. I bought one and 'remodeled' it. I got a copy of code and did what I translated it to be. (Mistake) Hand sinks are very important and sinks large enough to submerge the largest item you have are also real important for following code. I had picked up a 4' sandwich station and a bunch of stainless steel counter top material and re did all of the surfaces and changed the counter tops to be more user friendly, added 3 bar sinks, RV type water heater, a propane system, screen cover for the serving window, removable stoves and a exhaust hood. The trailer is 7'6" wide and 14' long and can be towed by a 1/2 ton pick up easily. It took us 2 years to get the design correct and a blue print drawn up for the health department. Now all we need is a good paint job on the outside and we'll have a choice rig. Water is transported in potable water barrels (15 gal each) and the gray water is stored in a portable waste water tote (like the ones for RV's). the waste volume must be 120% of the fresh water volume (code). I will post some pictures after this weekends BBQ contest here in New Mexico.  Buy the way, if you don't like the answer that you get from one inspector seek out another one. Albuquerque stated they did not want another mobile food vendor and refused to even see us. Rio Rancho asked what they could do for us as a new business, so Rio Rancho is where we are located.


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## DanMcG

Thanks for sharing that *Garlic*..that's good info for a guy starting out.
I can't wait for the pic's of your trailer


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## mginani

Thanks again.  That is very helpful.


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## crockadale

I know this is a couple of days old but...

First you don’t need a restaurant kitchen to cook your food in. Your cooker is your kitchen. You do need a place to store your products ie: meat, salads ect. and prepare the items you don’t cook on your cooker as well as a place to clean your equipment. No state I know of will allow you to store or prepare food at your home. You need a commissary , a commissary can be any state lessened commercial kitchen. If you are a member of a private club that has a food service permit that private club can be your commissary. Private clubs like the VFW, Polish American Club, American Legion and others. Most will usually have a licensed kitchen. Make friends with someone or join one of these clubs and get to know the powers that be. 99% of the time they won’t have a problem letting you use their club as a commissary. You might have to do some volunteer work but weigh the benefits.

Go to your states department of professional regulation or their web-site and get the real dope. Don’t trust what others tell you, all the information you need will be located there. Good luck with your business venture and all the information I can give is relevant to Florida but most states are very similar when it come to food service.


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## alx

was talking to a buddy who also caters and he told me his county in western maryland you dont even THINK of a roadside bbq etc.-he does it in county next door and our county in maryland has no problem-definetly a county by county in many places.Regulations are similiar it seems in alot of places but worth your money to check.


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## crockadale

I'm talking about catering not roadside stands. But what you are talking about is probably a zoneing issue.


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## alx

Yep..I think catering and vending got confused..especialy by me in this thread.


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## mginani

Thats a great idea about the using the clubs.  I'll look into that.

The info is straight from the health dept.  Zoning is not an issue.  The issue is that all food must be cooked in a kitchen with a food permit.  As far as mobile kitchens, they are very strict on that too.  I'll look further into that, here is the link to the ordinance in Arlington for mobile kitchens:

http://www.ci.arlington.tx.us/health...es_mobile.html

Based on those rules, it looks like that is not possible either.

Thanks again.

Mike


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## crockadale

I did a little homework for you...this is your states reg, it is in PDF format. What you are intrested in start on page 136

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/foodesta...mber282006.pdf



Looks like it is your city thats hard on mobile food vendors. but are you planing on vending or catering? You may want to do a face to face with the city officals and get the straight skinny.


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