# Calling all welders, Looking for a machine!



## tnhollerbach (Aug 26, 2015)

So I am not a welder, I don't even know how to weld, but I want to learn. It seems I could save time and money on my build if I could just weld myself. I just want to know if anyone has any experience with the Chicago Electric welders from harbour freight. Is it a decent welder to start and learn on or am i wasting time and money by considering one? I am thinking the 170amp mig/flux. any input is appreciated. thanks!


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## crankybuzzard (Aug 26, 2015)

Personally, I'd suggest you save up and get a miller or Lincoln mig setup.

The flux core is nice to have for small repairs and such, but the duty cycle and weld clean up will drive you CRAZY on a build.

Also, the flux core systems from HF and TS will make you very angry due to its inability to work like it should.  Most come out of the box needing to be tightened up, readjusted and such.  They are also really under powered compared to what's advertised.  Also, flux wire spools from HF and TS that aren't Lincoln or Miller tend to be VERY loosely spooled and will create a nightmare inside of your welder.

Craigslist and other ads will have used MIG systems listed on them regularly.  A lincoln 140 amp is a great starter unit.  Granted it costs around 600 bucks, but you can get wire easily, parts are simple, tips can be bought at most all home improvement stores, and the duty cycle is listed at 20%, but will do closer to 40% before it needs a rest.

I recommend anyone that's interested learning to weld to do so, but learn using a good machine.  Learning on a machine that gives a pro fits will only discourage you.


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## cmayna (Aug 26, 2015)

Agree with Crank Buzzard 100%.     I had to get one to do a lot of sheet metal replacement on two vintage Ford Mustangs and decided a 220v Lincoln Mig welder was best for me.  Never looked back.   I really don't like much of the stuff that comes out of Harbor Freight.  Too much junk.


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## sawinredneck (Aug 26, 2015)

I had, key word, a Chicago mig, just all but pulled my hair out using it! Burn for five minutes, wait twenty, burn for five, wait another twenty! I just couldn't even use it!
I now have a Miller millermatic 135xp and couldn't be happier! I wish it was a bit bigger, I'd like to do 1/4" in a single pass, but since it was gifted to me, the price was right!
Please, please, please!!! Spend more money, save your pennies, look at used, whatever you need to do, but get a better welder! I can't stress enough how frustrating those cheaper machines are! I've yet to hit the duty cycle on my Miller, no matter what setting I use!


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## weev (Aug 26, 2015)

I have a small Lincoln 120 volt mig unit that I have had for years they work great think I paid around 500 for it but then I started doing some bigger projects so I needed a little bit bigger so I got the Hobart (made by miller)iron man 220volt and have used the crap out of it I have made my own outside wood boiler and propane tank smoker.  I paid just over a 1000 with a coupon at tractor supply but I haven't had a bit of trouble with either  
Learning to weld isn't to hard just take your time and practice a lot also there are all kinds of books to help you along the way


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## pc farmer (Aug 26, 2015)

I have a hobart 110v mig.  Will run flux core or gas.   Love it.


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## sawinredneck (Aug 26, 2015)

The Hobarts are now made in the Miller factories, very good machines for the money.


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## hardcookin (Aug 26, 2015)

The Harbor Frieght welders have a poor duty cycle. 
If you are planning on welding 1/4" metal you would be better off getting a welder that runs off of 220. As mentioned you can't go wrong with Miller, Lincoln or Hobart.


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## iridelow (Aug 27, 2015)

When I first started with fabricating in general I stumbled upon a new Miller 180 (smaller 220v) mig welder off craigslist. Got it for a steal and Im still using this machine today. I would stay away from the 110 machines. I haven't found anything that this machine cant do for my personal needs. As far as the welding goes find some scrap and start playing around.


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## cmayna (Aug 27, 2015)

Once you settle down with your new welder, you can then get really strange and start posting pics of yourself with gun in hand. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			


















WelderCraig.jpg



__ cmayna
__ Aug 27, 2015


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## foamheart (Aug 27, 2015)

c farmer said:


> I have a hobart 110v mig. Will run flux core or gas. Love it.


Did that come with your slicer?


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## tnhollerbach (Aug 31, 2015)

Alright!!! you have all convinced me!!! I will stay away from the harbor freight stuff!!! Although some of the other tools seem decent for smaller things. I don't plan on really welding anything thick. My thought is I will be using it to weld straps, hinges, handles, dampers, etc... I am a little skiddish of the learning curve though. I just don't want it to look like garbage. hahaha.

Thanks for all the insight, I guess I will start saving the pennies!


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## crankybuzzard (Aug 31, 2015)

TNHollerBach said:


> Alright!!! you have all convinced me!!! I will stay away from the harbor freight stuff!!! Although some of the other tools seem decent for smaller things. I don't plan on really welding anything thick. My thought is I will be using it to weld straps, hinges, handles, dampers, etc... I am a little skiddish of the learning curve though. I just don't want it to look like garbage. hahaha.
> 
> Thanks for all the insight, I guess I will start saving the pennies!


A man carrying a violin case was walking down the street in NYC and asked a fellow for directions, he asked; "how do I get to Carnegie Hall"?  The other fellow looked at the man and his violin case and said; "Practice, practice , practice"!

How do you learn to weld?  Practice, practice, practice...

Go to the scrap yard and get all sorts of shapes, sizes, and thicknesses of metal.  Weld on them, hit the welded joints with a hammer, break your welds, cut them open with a cut off saw or a bandsaw.  Look them over and see what you need to do differently.

In time, you'll amaze yourself at what you've learned to do.


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## foamheart (Aug 31, 2015)

CrankyBuzzard said:


> A man carrying a violin case was walking down the street in NYC and asked a fellow for directions, he asked; "how do I get to Carnegie Hall"?  The other fellow looked at the man and his violin case and said; "Practice, practice , practice"!
> 
> How do you learn to weld?  Practice, practice, practice...
> 
> ...


LOL... and when ya finally grasp it all, you get a welder's helper to do all that nasty stuff.


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## sawinredneck (Aug 31, 2015)

Or a machinist! One shop I worked at I had to prep the plates and cut them open for the welding certification tests.


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## cmayna (Aug 31, 2015)

Yes to the above.  I have boxes of scrap steel pieces which I practice welding on.   Depending of the thickness of the material will help determine the wire speed, amount of wire feed and gauge of wire.  I use .023"  for almost all my welding.


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## sawinredneck (Aug 31, 2015)

cmayna said:


> Yes to the above.  I have boxes of scrap steel pieces which I practice welding on.   Depending of the thickness of the material will help determine the amount of Ace, Oxy, wire feed speed and gauge of wire.  I use .023-.025 for almost all my welding.


On what machine do you use that size wire? I ask because I've been thinking of going smaller than the .030, I've been using on my 110v machine. Thanks in advance.


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## cmayna (Aug 31, 2015)

Oops, I didn't mean to say oxy and ace.  Been using my welding torch too much lately.

My miggy uses regular CO2 shielding gas but yes on .023 wire gauge which is a tad smaller than what the factory recommends which is .025.  Sorry for the confusion.   I have a Lincoln Pro-Mig 175 which is ran on 220v.


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## sawinredneck (Aug 31, 2015)

I knew what you meant! I just wanted to know why? I'm thinking going smaller in hopes of better penetration, but am finding little to back that up?


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## kc tom (Aug 31, 2015)

Guys I have a Hobart Handler 190, I use .035 wire and C25 gas and run it on 220v.  I've had it over four years with no problem's, very happy with it and has welded anything I've needed to up to 3/8 plate. I have changed the gas to C10 and have welded 1/2 plate. The best thing about Hobart is it's made by Miller.Have built three smokers with it and still on the original liner!


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## cmayna (Aug 31, 2015)

Practice, practice, practice.......












image.jpg



__ cmayna
__ Aug 31, 2015


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## crankybuzzard (Aug 31, 2015)

:yeahthat:


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 31, 2015)

I'll throw in my two cents, why just because I own the thing. I'm not ever going to weld a big offset smoker or a trailer smoker, but I do like tinkering around welding up yard art and charcoal baskets and UDS smokers. I bought mine a couple winters ago. Was on sale for $79 at the time. It has done everything I want it to do. One big requirement for me was that it didn't have to be 220. My house only has a 100 amp panel and putting in the 25 amp breaker was the max I could go. 

That said I'd love to have a better welder. My dad was a journeyman electrician and a master welder (rigger). If he hadn't been cremated he'd probably be rolling over in his grave! Anyways I had no interest in metal work back then so when he passed away mom gave me the option of keeping all the welding equipment or selling. I kept all the wood working equipment and sold the the welders. So here I am with the el cheapo welder, which probably a good thing, I'd probably had burnt the house down by now with the other stuff! 

For small little things or for learning this guy will work just fine. Especially if your panel is small like mine. Next house is gonna have a 400amp dedicated shop panel like my last shop had!


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 31, 2015)

cmayna said:


> Practice, practice, oractice.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What kind of wrench do you use to screw in that lag screw Craig, lol!


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## cmayna (Aug 31, 2015)

Case,
I must assume that any real welder worth his weight in smoked Salmon would recognize what that lag bolt is for.........


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## cmayna (Aug 31, 2015)

No?  Then how are you suppose to clean the nozzle of your welder tip from all that flux junk?

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/content/type/61/id/421792/width/400/height/800[/IMG

[GALLERY="media, 421793"][/GALLERY]


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 31, 2015)

cmayna said:


> No?  Then how are you suppose to clean the nozzle of your welder tip from all that flux junk?
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/content/type/61/id/421792/width/400/height/800[/IMG
> 
> ...


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## tnhollerbach (Sep 1, 2015)

You all make this sound so easy!! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






lol.

cmayna you make it look easy!!! How long have you been welding?

Another question, What if I like Dirtsailor2003 don't have the ability to run a 220 circuit to my shed?


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## damascusmaker (Sep 1, 2015)

An auto helmet will be a big help in learning. Mig welding really is pretty easy. Stick takes a little more practice. I have found tig to be a real challenge because I rarely do it and it takes precise coordination between both hands and one foot. But man. tig is pretty when it comes together.


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## osiris (Sep 3, 2015)

Millermatics are what I'd get. I'm from Wisconsin so I might be biased lol but Miller is what I prefer. I've welded with Lincoln and they're pretty good as well I'd stick with those two brands they seem to be the most well known and most reliable. :)


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## chevy power (Sep 21, 2015)

I just joined the forum, I am a professional welder. I do a lot of side work and when upgrading to a new welder i bought a thermal arc. I own a 110 lincoln mig, a miller plasma, and my thermal arc 220 mig. If you are set on buying new, look into thermal arc. I always tell people to try and find a used one locally. I picked up my lincoln 110 (i use it for thin stuff) for 225$ with a small tank. There is a lot of information online to help you teach your self. Stay away from harbor freight welders, there are a lot of decent chinese made welders that will serve the average home owner quite well. Everlast and eastwood welders are names that come to mind.
 Good luck


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## clearprop (Oct 10, 2015)

Millermatic 211 with a large tank of C25 and you'll be set for a VERY long time. It's dual voltage 120v AND 240v in the same machine. It will run off your 240v 30amp clothes dryer outlet with a harbor freight 10gauge extension cord wired up with 240v plug ends all day long... (I had to do that back when I rented if I wanted more power/juice than what the 120v outlet would spit out) ... if you ever want to do aluminum, throw a spoolmate spoolgun on with a tank of Argon and your off to the races.... around the $1k mark, but well worth it. You can spend half of that on a Hobart Handler (also owned by miller), but the features won't be as quite as nice, you'll be limited to 120v OR 240v (there is a dual voltage HH/Hobart Handler, but it's only a couple hundred less than the MM211 so it's a no brainer to upgrade to the Miller MM211)... add on for an aluminum spoolgun to the hobart is limited to nil depending on the model..... (it's worth the extra $500 to have it all in one machine on the MM211)........ AHP Alpha Tig 200dx is a great little AC/DC tig for about $700 and is the ONLY Chinese welder I rolled the dice on, but it wouldn't be easy to weld with right off the bat..... (It would be good to learn STICK welding first so you know the basic principles when you get a MIG and start pulling the trigger. Anyone can make a nice looking weld with a mig, but that doesn't mean it's a good weld).... Youtube instructionals should get you up and running if you don't know a welder to show you.

That being said, cheapest way I would go is a Hobart Handler MIG with FLUX CORE wire.... then get a C25 tank (about $220ish) later on if you weld enough.  I used a Flux Core HF welder only once, and yes, it stuck some sheet steel together when I didn't have ANYTHING else available to get me back on the road.... but I would NEVER spend a dime on one.

Welding isn't cheap.... but it pays for itself BIG TIME.


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## ironmanjking (Oct 15, 2015)

Man, there is not a lot of love here for Harbor Freight welders.

I've been a member on here for about 3 hours, and that's all I keep seeing when someone asks about which welder to buy.

Well, I bought one on August 29th... a Chicago Electric 170 amp MIG/Fluxcore welder. It does exactly what they say it will do, and that's all I can ask of it. I built a trailer and a smoker with it last month. I welded everything from 11ga, up to 3/8" thick. Honestly, it did not perform bad unless I nearly doubled the duty cycle. After a week, I broke the brass part that the tip screws into, but it was my fault. I took it back, and they swapped the whole thing out.

I'm going to take some pictures of some welds and post them for you guys.

Better yet, to entertain you, I will take some test coupons home and do a vertical test for you. I have a CWI here at work, and he'll bend it for me. I'll photograph the whole thing.

Let me say clearly, I am not absolutely in love with the $179 welder from Harbor Freight. I imagine that, once it's out of warranty, I'll break it again, and then toss it. But, it was $179, and it has served it's purpose thus far.

My next option after this was a Lincoln Cracker Box, I think 225... Dad has one that is 34 years old, and it still works. I may do that yet.


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## clearprop (Oct 15, 2015)

Ironman said it best. It's a throw away welder. As long as you can pull $175 worth of welds out of it, consider you won. Granted you still have to buy the much more exspensive Flux core wire. 

My millermatic is a throw away welder as well... once outside of warranty, if the board fries it's cheaper/makes more sense to just buy another one.... 

Those Lincoln tombstone welders are soldiers! A dairy farmer I helped got one for a wedding gift and never really learned to use it. It sat next to an OPEN machineshed  door for 25 years!!! Rained on, snowed on, humidity, you name it. When he asked me to fix something with it for him I thought "yeah right"... the thing fired right up and laid down awesome welds!!! Your mileage may vary, but I will always be impressed with them..... you can find them on CL pretty darn cheap too.


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## tnhollerbach (Dec 9, 2015)

So after reading all the great info that everyone has given I think that I am leaning toward the Hobart Handler 140. Seems like a solid machine and even new, the price point seems right. I am going to try to find a used one in the mean time but not having much luck.... so we will see

But can someone explain to me duty cycle?


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## cmayna (Dec 9, 2015)

Here ya go.   Got these from Mr. Google.



or

*Duty cycle* is a welding equipment specification which defines the number of minutes, within a 10 minute period, during which a given welder can safely produce a particular welding current.

For example, a 150 amp. welder with a 30% duty cycle must be "rested" for at least 7 minutes after 3 minutes of continuous welding.

or

_Mark the welder’s technical description of ‘Duty Cycle’._

*Almost all welding machinery for all welding process has a ‘usability rating’ called the ‘duty cycle’.*

The ‘usability quality’ of a welding machine is reflected by the value of the ‘duty cycle’.

The duty cycle really details just how long the machine can operate within a *TEN *minute welding time without overheating or becoming damaged!

The whole 100% means the machine’s entire welding power output capacity.

The whole 100% is directly expressed as a time period of 10 minutes.

The value of the duty cycle ‘rating’ is normally expressed as a percentage of anywhere from 0% to 100%.

The duty cycle value is then expressed as a percentage (part of) the 100%.

So,
If your welding machine says ‘duty cycle =40% @ xyz amps’ this means that out of a welding ‘on-time’ of only ten minutes, your welder can only safely weld continuously for *4 *minutes in every ten minutes , & if you exceed this 4 minutes, you *will* risk overheating or damaging your welder!

The ‘*on-time*’ that I refer to above is the actual welding time where a welding arc is being produced.

The duty cycle is *not* relative to where your welder is only plugged in & switched on, but not being used.







I'm sure others might be able to put the definition into an easier and more digestible manner.


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## tnhollerbach (Dec 9, 2015)

> Originally Posted by *cmayna*
> 
> I'm sure others might be able to put the definition into an easier and more digestible manner.


cmayna your description was actually very helpful in explaining duty cycle. I had watched some videos but I wasn't grasping it. I get It now! Thanks


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## rotor head (Dec 15, 2015)

You drive a Lincoln You drink a Miller but you weld with a HTP 
You can get a nice machine online for 1500.00 and that's the top of the line model will weld 1\2" single pass. Its the htp2400 built my smoker and a monster bumper all 1/4" for a Chevy 2500HD. Never gave me a problem.


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## tnhollerbach (Jan 5, 2016)

Well I finally picked up my machine! after all the advice and opinions. tons of thought and borrowing a crappy welder from a friend I finally settled on this beauty!!













Photo Jan 05, 1 01 29 PM.jpg



__ tnhollerbach
__ Jan 5, 2016






Picked her up today and I think I got a great deal. Northern Tool has them for 499 and that is where I was going to purchase from. I went into my local Tractor supply and this one was the last one they had and it was the display model they had it priced at 519 which wasn't bad considering the nearest NT is an hour drive so the $20 was worth it, they gave me 10% off right away because it was a display which I was great with because that put it under the 499 i was going to pay. Then (in case you don't know) Tractor supply will take competitors coupons and I just happen to have a Harbor Freight 20% off coupon. total was $374 before tax. $414 out the door!! I am happy with that!! Now I cant wait to start using it!!! Thanks for all the help and suggestions!


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## joshua brede (Jan 5, 2016)

Your gonna be so much happier with that machine than a cheap one there isn't even words to describe it.


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## LanceR (Jan 5, 2016)

It's also worth noting that unless the manufacturer lists the duty cycle at various amperage levels the duty cycle refers to the highest amperage available.

With most low duty cycle machines if you stay in the middle or less of the amperage range you will be able to weld more or less continuously.

Lance


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## tnhollerbach (Jan 5, 2016)

Joshua Brede said:


> Your gonna be so much happier with that machine than a cheap one there isn't even words to describe it.



I totally agree, I have been using a junk welder that is so frustrating to use just because is was a welder and I wanted to learn. I had to put a clamp on the feed wheels just so it would feed the wire. Needless to say I cannot wait to use my new one!!!!


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## thesmokist (Jan 5, 2016)

I have a Hobart handler140 and love it


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## tnhollerbach (Jan 6, 2016)

thesmokist said:


> I have a Hobart handler140 and love it


I cant wait to put it to use. I don't have a garage, just a little shed that I use to work out of, how will it do in the cooler temps?


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## thesmokist (Jan 6, 2016)

TNHollerBach said:


> I cant wait to put it to use. I don't have a garage, just a little shed that I use to work out of, how will it do in the cooler temps?


 I've used it in my garage when it was pretty cold andit did fine. I've had mine for about 4 years and is been great


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