# Not enough smoke



## AmazonDon703 (Jun 28, 2020)

Hey guys, I recently purchased a 250-gallon offset smoker. It cooks like a champ from end-to-end.  Only issue is I'm not getting nearly enough smoke on my food. I'm wondering if anyone else has a cooker of this size, do you use tuning plates? Would that help regulate the smoke? Also do you think my smokestack is possibly too short? For what it's worth, I cooked using all wood, White oak and pecan. I burn a clean fire with thin blue Smoke the entire time.


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## daveomak (Jun 28, 2020)

What temp are you smoking at ???   Are you forming a pellicle on the the meat first, before raising the smoker temp ???


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## thirdeye (Jun 28, 2020)

Tuning plates allow you to adjust the heat-flow of a pit, and smoke will follow the heat-flow.  A combination of adjusting the air-flow and the tuning plates balance the heat from end to end. It sounds like your pit is working great in that respect.

How old is your fuel wood?  And have you ever tried adding flavor wood chunks (from another source) once you get an established fire with the fuel wood you are using?


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## AmazonDon703 (Jun 28, 2020)

I'm smoking between 250 and 275.  I previously had a Old country BBQ pits Pecos and I would cook at that temp and get plenty of smoke.  Also using the same wood.  I'm about to put two racks of ribs on there right now and close the baffle a little bit to see if that works.   I've only used this pit 3 times but the temperature is balance from end-to-end pretty much spot-on.  The Cook's have gone so smoothly that I definitely wasn't expecting a lack of smoke.


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## thirdeye (Jun 28, 2020)

Yeah, choke it down a little and see what happens.  
Just a longshot here.... but have you measured the actual temp at the grate? Let's say your actual grate temp is 325° you might not notice too much a  difference from 275° but the increased flow may be depriving your food from picking up smoke??


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## AmazonDon703 (Jun 28, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> Yeah, choke it down a little and see what happens.
> Just a longshot here.... but have you measured the actual temp at the grate? Let's say your actual grate temp is 325° you might not notice too much a  difference from 275° but the increased flow may be depriving your food from picking up smoke??


No sir, I haven't.  That makes sense.  My gauges are grate level but there on the door.


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## AmazonDon703 (Jun 28, 2020)

daveomak said:


> What temp are you smoking at ???   Are you forming a pellicle on the the meat first, before raising the smoker temp ???


Today I am aiming for 250.  Before it was 250-270


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## sawhorseray (Jun 28, 2020)

You need a wireless remote probe that'll attach to your grill inside the cook chamber at the height the meat sits at, I think 

 thirdeye
 nailed it. The gauges that come on the doors of smokers are notoriously inaccurate, the one on my SQ36 can be off by 50º-60º.  Inkbird will set you up, they make quality products and help sponsor this site. RAY


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## daveomak (Jun 28, 2020)

The smoker mounted therms 'could' be 50-100F lower than the actual grate temp where the meat sits...


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## AmazonDon703 (Jun 28, 2020)

I placed an oven thermometer on the grate.   It's showing the same temp as the ones on the side.   Smoked some sausages for a couple hours aft 230.  No smoke flavor or smell.   I don't understand it.   Based on the pic, do you think my stack is too short?  Maybe the smoke isn't circulating long enough?


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## AmazonDon703 (Jun 28, 2020)

AmazonDon703 said:


> Hey guys, I recently purchased a 250-gallon offset smoker. It cooks like a champ from end-to-end.  Only issue is I'm not getting nearly enough smoke on my food. I'm wondering if anyone else has a cooker of this size, do you use tuning plates? Would that help regulate the smoke? Also do you think my smokestack is possibly too short? For what it's worth, I cooked using all wood, White oak and pecan. I burn a clean fire with thin blue Smoke the entire time.


Here are some more pics


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## daveomak (Jun 28, 2020)

Try smoking stuff at 105-140F...

Marianski:
Cold Smoking
Cold smoking at 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1-14 days
Warm Smoking
Continuous smoking at 73-104° F (23-40° C), from 4-48 hours depending on the diameter of the meat, humidity 80%, and medium smoke.
Hot Smoking
Hot smoking is the most common method of smoking. Continuous smoking at 105-140° F (41-60° C), 0.5-2 hours


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## daveomak (Jun 28, 2020)

Temperature and meat reactions
*chef jimmyj*
Smoking Guru
Staff Member
Moderator
Group Lead
OTBS Member
SMF Premier Member
    A Jersey Boy in the mountains of Emporium PA
    The benefit of SMF is there is lots of ways folks here prepare, cure,and smoke meat. Members get the opportunity to see various options and choose how they want to go. Both cold and warm smoking make tasty bacon.
    Here's a little science behind Cold vs. Warm Smoking. First, Marianski points out that smoke penetration is deeper at temps below 100°F and includes the typical temps various regions in Europe use. Second is an article from Thermoworks describing what changes take place as we cook meat, aka denature the proteins. As the meat surface water proteins denature, smoke flavor can't penetrate and only accumulates on the surface. As you will see, proteins begin to denature at 105°F and by 130°F it is essentially cooked. Any internal temp we take meat beyond 130 is for safety, 145 for pork, and or desired doneness.

    Taken from Marianski's web site...
 .. 
Temperature and meat reactions
chef jimmyj
Smoking Guru
Staff Member
Moderator
Group Lead
OTBS Member
SMF Premier Member
    A Jersey Boy in the mountains of Emporium PA
    The benefit of SMF is there is lots of ways folks here prepare, cure,and smoke meat. Members get the opportunity to see various options and choose how they want to go. Both cold and warm smoking make tasty bacon.
    Here's a little science behind Cold vs. Warm Smoking. First, Marianski points out that smoke penetration is deeper at temps below 100°F and includes the typical temps various regions in Europe use. Second is an article from Thermoworks describing what changes take place as we cook meat, aka denature the proteins. As the meat surface water proteins denature, smoke flavor can't penetrate and only accumulates on the surface. As you will see, proteins begin to denature at 105°F and by 130°F it is essentially cooked. Any internal temp we take meat beyond 130 is for safety, 145 for pork, and or desired doneness.

    Taken from Marianski's web site...
 .. 







	

		
			
		

		
	
....
	

		
			
		

		
	






    Cold smoking allows us total smoke penetration inside of the meat. Very little hardening of the outside surface of the meat or casing occurs and smoke penetrates the meat easily.
    Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.
    You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C). Cold smoking assures us of total smoke penetration inside of the meat. The loss of moisture also is uniform in all areas and the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Cold smoking is not a continuous process, it is stopped (no smoke) a few times to allow fresh air into the smoker.

    From Thermoworks. This is an overview of what happens when
    Meat is cooked. With bacon we are only concerned with denaturization up to 145°F.
    Denaturation begins at roughly 105°F and continues upwards to temperatures in excess of 200°F. Changes in proteins can be seen in the form of changing colors (i.e. red to brown) and can be tracked at each stage by the use of a meat thermometer. Ideal cooking temperatures found on the chef-recommended temperature chartare indications that sufficient denaturation has occurred to render the meat to the color and texture of your choice.

    However, just knowing what color and texture it is isn’t good enough for us. We want to know (and we assume you do, too) what’s happening to your meat as it passes through the various temperature stages.
    As meat approaches 105°F, the calpains (calcium proteins) begin to denature and lose activity; this happens until about 122°F. Since enzyme activity increases up to those temperatures, slow cooking can provide a significant aging effect during the cooking process. At *125°F meat is rare. Ideally, you’ll want to sear the meat quickly to kill any surface bacteria.
    Above 125°F, meat begins to develop a white opacity as heat sensitive myosin (motor proteins) denature. Coagulation produces large enough clumps to scatter light and red meat becomes pink. This is where the meat moves from rare to medium rare (*130°F).
    Further cooking (towards *140°F) begins to breakdown the red myoglobin (iron/oxygen binding protein) and turns it into a tan colored hemichrome. It’s at this point that meat turns from pink, to brown and then to grey.
    During this time, meat releases a lot of juices and begins to shrink noticeably. In a very rapid succession it can move from medium rare, to medium, to medium well. And, if you’re not careful, you can very quickly overcook your meat.
    At *160°F, connective tissue begins to liquify. Proteins repel the water and constrict causing them to get closer together and grow stronger. This is what gives well-done meat it’s tough and dry texture. At the risk of ruining your main course, you would never want to take your higher quality cuts of meat to this temperature.
    However, if you’re cooking low and slow with traditional BBQ cuts, it’s taken you hours to get to this point and things are just getting warmed up. As you accelerate past 180°F and up to 200°F, collagen begins to melt and turn into a gelatin. This gelatin is able to absorb up to ten times it’s weight in water. The moisture that is repelled by the protein is absorbed into the gelatin and the meat stays moist. 


    Cold smoking allows us total smoke penetration inside of the meat. Very little hardening of the outside surface of the meat or casing occurs and smoke penetrates the meat easily.
    Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.
    You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C). Cold smoking assures us of total smoke penetration inside of the meat. The loss of moisture also is uniform in all areas and the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Cold smoking is not a continuous process, it is stopped (no smoke) a few times to allow fresh air into the smoker.

    From Thermoworks. This is an overview of what happens when
    Meat is cooked. With bacon we are only concerned with denaturization up to 145°F.
    Denaturation begins at roughly 105°F and continues upwards to temperatures in excess of 200°F. Changes in proteins can be seen in the form of changing colors (i.e. red to brown) and can be tracked at each stage by the use of a meat thermometer. Ideal cooking temperatures found on the chef-recommended temperature chartare indications that sufficient denaturation has occurred to render the meat to the color and texture of your choice.

    However, just knowing what color and texture it is isn’t good enough for us. We want to know (and we assume you do, too) what’s happening to your meat as it passes through the various temperature stages.
    As meat approaches 105°F, the calpains (calcium proteins) begin to denature and lose activity; this happens until about 122°F. Since enzyme activity increases up to those temperatures, slow cooking can provide a significant aging effect during the cooking process. At *125°F meat is rare. Ideally, you’ll want to sear the meat quickly to kill any surface bacteria.
    Above 125°F, meat begins to develop a white opacity as heat sensitive myosin (motor proteins) denature. Coagulation produces large enough clumps to scatter light and red meat becomes pink. This is where the meat moves from rare to medium rare (*130°F).
    Further cooking (towards *140°F) begins to breakdown the red myoglobin (iron/oxygen binding protein) and turns it into a tan colored hemichrome. It’s at this point that meat turns from pink, to brown and then to grey.
    During this time, meat releases a lot of juices and begins to shrink noticeably. In a very rapid succession it can move from medium rare, to medium, to medium well. And, if you’re not careful, you can very quickly overcook your meat.
    At *160°F, connective tissue begins to liquify. Proteins repel the water and constrict causing them to get closer together and grow stronger. This is what gives well-done meat it’s tough and dry texture. At the risk of ruining your main course, you would never want to take your higher quality cuts of meat to this temperature.
    However, if you’re cooking low and slow with traditional BBQ cuts, it’s taken you hours to get to this point and things are just getting warmed up. As you accelerate past 180°F and up to 200°F, collagen begins to melt and turn into a gelatin. This gelatin is able to absorb up to ten times it’s weight in water. The moisture that is repelled by the protein is absorbed into the gelatin and the meat stays moist.


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## AmazonDon703 (Jun 28, 2020)

daveomak said:


> Temperature and meat reactions
> *chef jimmyj*
> Smoking Guru
> Staff Member
> ...


Thanks for the info!  I prefer not to do any cold smoking, other than cheese's and stuff like that.  I'm going to have my welder extend my smokestack and go from there.  I'm hoping that will help.


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## thirdeye (Jun 28, 2020)

AmazonDon703 said:


> I placed an oven thermometer on the grate.   It's showing the same temp as the ones on the side.   Smoked some sausages for a couple hours aft 230.  No smoke flavor or smell.   I don't understand it.   Based on the pic, do you think my stack is too short?  Maybe the smoke isn't circulating long enough?





AmazonDon703 said:


> Thanks for the info!  I prefer not to do any cold smoking, other than cheese's and stuff like that.  I'm going to have my welder extend my smokestack and go from there.  I'm hoping that will help.



Hold on man.... the temperature experiment did prove consistency across the cooking grate.  In the old days we always did the biscuit test on a pit to locate the hot and cold spots, it worked good.  But before you have a welder start modifying,  consider this.... Pit builders don't design randomly.  And they just don't cut a hole anywhere or use some stack pipe that's laying around.  The volume of the firebox, how it enters the cooking chamber, the location of the exit vent (in relation to the cooking grate), diameter and height of the stack all factor in.  Why don't you run some numbers first and see how your smoker stacks up?  HERE is a good calculator for some starting data.   If the design itself checks out, it might lead us in a different direction to get that smokey flavor back.


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## thirdeye (Jun 28, 2020)

Another thought here.... what diameter is your stack, it looks like  6" (which is actually 6-5/8" OD. ) ?
How about making a temporary extension or two??  Your welder could tack some dogs onto a some random lengths of same size pipe.   Set this extension on your stack, seal the gap and check it out for a couple of cooks.  Then, if you find something that works, he can strike an arc.


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## jeffo21 (Jul 4, 2020)

are you running your stack wide open if so close it up some and make the smoke stay in longer


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## mike243 (Jul 11, 2020)

making the stack taller will increase the draft and move more air thru the unit that means less temps/smoke hanging in the smoker unless you build a bigger fire. to me thats not going to increase smoke flavor, it may have too much air flow, put something over the stack to block it a little, tin foil or something easy to enlarge the hole,  start with say a 3" hole and then adjust the fire vent til you hit your temp you like, if it wont run hot enuf enlarge the hole a little at a time til you can.


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