# Opinions on Pellet grills



## Ed Hernandez (Apr 14, 2019)

Evening guys and gals!  I’m writing this to get yalls professional and experienced opinion over a pellet grill. In a few weeks I’ll have saved enough money to buy a nice pellet smoker, I’ve always wanted a Yoder YS640 or 480 but then Traeger dropped the Ironwood series.  I know Yoder has been around awhile, I know their awesomely made in the good ol US of A and their all around tanks, but I’ve also heard a lot of rust being an issue on them even though Yoder provides paint for it I was dissapointed a 1000+ Dollar American smoker would rust.  Also I’ve been a fan of traeger and the Ironwood looks good especially with that awesome WiFire technology they released that i for one think is badass, i do hear for the price traeger doesn’t hold up from YouTube comments with many people saying a Pit Boss holds its own with it for half the price.  Before my post gets anymore lengthy does anyone own a Yoder? What do you love about it?  Was it worth the price tag?  What about a Traeger?  Any Ironwood owners?  Any pros and cons on both?  Any other smoker suggestions?  I’ve heard of Pit Boss, Rec Tec, and the Green mountain smoker to name a few.  This would be a at home pit, for family, friends and gatherings.  I don’t do competition cooking but may in the future.  Also want something where I could throw in multiple racks of ribs, pork Butts, brisket, etc and not worry about temp.  Any and all opinion, info, help is greatly appreciated!  Smoke on!


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## Jabiru (Apr 15, 2019)

I recently grabbed a GMG Prime Jim Bowie, very versatile, plenty of room and easy to pull off great feeds. I am really happy I moved to a pellet smoker.

There’s heaps of choices and most of the models are damn good.

Only thing i can suggest is do your research and go with what you like and will suit your budget.


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## timetosmoke (Apr 15, 2019)

The cost of pellet grills in my opinion is super inflated especially offshore made units.
The Rec Tec seems to have the nest materials (304 stainless) but I also like Pellet Pro but no wifi (yeah I am wifi needy person). I looked at the GMG Primer series I see people are complaining about peeling paint which is a shame for the cost. Yoder may rust but I am guessing it would be 20 years before a perforations due to rust in that thick gauge steel would happen but again, options on the unit puts the Yoder out of the range of cost I am considering.
Grilla Grills Silver Back in another nice looking unit but options that should be standard are not and adding them on puts the price more expensive then Red Tec. Lastly, I like the looks of the new Traeger Timberline models but man, the price is literally stupid. The Traeger $1800 timberline would be a buy for me if the price was more reasonable, let's say $1199.


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## jake0531 (Apr 15, 2019)

I bought a GMG Daniel Boone in November during their Black Friday sales. I can’t say enough good things about it. I’ve done plenty of pork shoulders, ribs, wings, cookies, fish, steak, all have turned out fantastic. I haven’t had any issues with it the 6 months I’ve owned. I keep mine in my garage, don’t use it in wet weather and haven’t had any issues with paint or rust. Try to remember there’s always a few bad apples on a good tree. I got the non WiFi, as I didn’t see the need for it. If I’m going to use it I want to be home where I can monitor it if anything goes wrong. I did do the heat shield mod to it so I can adjust the diffuser side to side and I get pretty spot on temps across the grates. It’s pretty much set and forget. I start it about 30 minutes before I want to put food on, it comes up to temp and I adjust heat shield if one side is hotter than the other, put food on and forget til I have to tend to the food. When I put the probe it I turn the screen to the food so I can see temp from the house, but I just ordered an Inkbird IBT-4XS primarily for more probes, but that is Bluetooth so I won’t even have to go outside to check food anymore if I don’t want


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## dubob (Apr 15, 2019)

I bought the Camp Chef Woodwind SG w/Sear box in late February and I'm very pleased with the results of all me cooks so far.  Just did St Louis cut ribs yesterday and they were melt in your mouth delicious.  I'm in the "Don't need/want wifi" camp as I too plan to be at home while cooking.  I did add an RF connected IT monitor (Ink Bird IRF-4S) so I don't have to constantly run outside every little bit to check the IT temps of a cook.  The remote keeps me apprised of the IT all the time while inside the house.

The Woodwind I bought is still on sale for $899 direct from CC.  And the CC Support team has been great to deal with so far.  I've had a couple of very minor problems with my grill and they have quickly and efficiently provided solutions.  I think CC has better features than do the Traegers and cost less for similar models.  But the Traeger grills are good products according to all my friends and neighbors that have them.


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## sweetride95 (Apr 15, 2019)

Without really knowing much about pellet grills, I bought a Traeger Pro22. All I knew is that I was done with charcoal and electric smoking. Three of my neighbors had Traegers, all made great food, and they couldn't say enough about how much they enjoyed having them. 

Six months and many cooks later, I am getting a handle on pellet grilling/smoking. With what I know now, it would be harder to make a decision. Basic nuts/bolts, and applying heat to meat, it would be hard for me to pass on a Pit Boss for the price. The price/size is very attractive. You could add a fancy PID controller and still be under what I paid for the Traeger, let alone a US built rig.

1/4" plate steel construction and bull horn things are glitzy, but really doesn't make the meat. It's a tough call to make.


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## jlud (Apr 15, 2019)

As you can see most are happy with what they pick which is a great thing for us consumers! I just got a Yoder YS640 a couple weeks back.  All the materials are very heavy duty, it will outlast me even if I have to touch up paint.  Most of the rust I see is people letting grease run down the front and sit there without cleaning it or leaving out in rain.

I’ve done grilling a couple times and very happy with how it turned out, and smoked ribs twice and brisket with good results.  The temp on surface does vary from probe a bit so in my mind you want a separate device to see temps across the different cooking areas.  I wanted a solid smoker and solid WiFi thermometer so I bought what I felt were the best of each.  I could have saved money buying lesser expensive combo units but I have just felt in past experience that they usually don’t work as well and when part of it goes you throw the whole thing out, that’s just my personal take, ymmv.

Good luck, lots of great units and people that love them!


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## metsfan2152 (Apr 15, 2019)

I think there are many of good pellet grills out there. Also depends on what you want to spend a on the grill. Do you want WIFI connections? I got my Rec Tec RT-590 a couple of weeks ago and love it. Built really nice and the customer service is some of the best i ever had. Also has  4 year warranty which is great. I was in the same boat as you a couple of months ago. Heard a lot of good things about yoder but it was out of my price range as i was stretching as it is.


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## sandyut (Apr 15, 2019)

I am new to pellet grill and studied them for entirely too long and made many decisions I didnt pull the trigger on.  finally threw down on a Rec Tec RT-700 and love it.  but that is a common story across many brands.  its hard to compare with only one on my deck as took many years to find the coin to buy one.  Look at features, constructions, reviews, warranty, etc.


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## SlowmotionQue (Apr 15, 2019)

I’m a Rec Tec Stampede  owner as well.

For what you get, the build quality, construction materials, WiFi, warranty, customer service, Rec Tecs pellet grill line is tough to beat at their price points.

WiFi is a must for me. As well as a PID controller. Bin capacity a priority as well.

We are extremely happy with ours.


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## retfr8flyr (Apr 15, 2019)

I have the Timberline 1300 and it's been a great grill so far. I think the new Traeger lineup is hard to beat. They have added a new brushless auger motor and improved the controller. I don't think you could go wrong with them.


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## Winterrider (Apr 15, 2019)

retfr8flyr said:


> I have the Timberline 1300 and it's been a great grill so far. I think the new Traeger lineup is hard to beat. They have added a new brushless auger motor and improved the controller. I don't think you could go wrong with them.



$1999 in my town.  Seems like a bunch. I do know they are built better and have upgraded from the past models.


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## txgunlover (Apr 16, 2019)

I have two Rec-Tec's and love them both!


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## Bru (Apr 16, 2019)

Do you have some BBQ shops near you? I was shopping for a new traeger last week. Local BBQ shop offered to sell me a Timberline 1300 that had only had the burn in done for $1,500. Went to a different local smoker/outdoor fireplace business and they offered me a pro series 34 assembled with the front shelf brand new never turned on for $600. I didn’t need the WiFire capabilities and couldn’t really justify the price difference (I tried but just couldn’t). You never know what kind of pricing you can get until you do some shopping around. Good luck with your hunt for the right smoker!


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## retfr8flyr (Apr 16, 2019)

Ed, all pellet grills are basically the same, an auger to deliver the pellets to the fire pot, a controller to tell the auger what to do and the grill shape itself. What you are paying for with the higher cost grills is the cost of better materials and better electronics in the controller. The best thing is to decide what your budget is for your grill and then find the one that is within your budget, with the features you want. A pellet grill will last a long time, if you take care of it, so I always think of the purchase cost over a 10 year time frame. A $500 dollar difference in cost doesn't seem so large that way. One thing I would point out is Traeger offers a big discount with a friends and family coupon, if you know anyone that could get you one.


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## Ed Hernandez (Apr 16, 2019)

A lot of awesome replies, and some definite useful info so I definitely appreciate that guys!  I'm actually going to go to a "local" BBQ shop this weekend.  I'm definitely happy with the fact that everyone has different pellet smokers but are very pleased with their choice.  I'll probably end up getting a Yoder since I'm pretty stickler about keeping my pit clean (I have a stick burner) so hopefully the rust will be minimal but I've seen videos were Yoder will actually send paint since the chamber has a 10 year warranty.  Malcom Reed also has said whether I get a Traeger or Yoder I'll be very pleased with the selection.  I'll definitely check out the GMG, I'm glad Rec Tec seems to be very dependable but I cant get over the chrome horns on it, but thats just me  definitely let yall know what I  end up getting!


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## sweetride95 (Apr 17, 2019)

Ed Hernandez said:


> .................... Rec Tec seems to be very dependable but I cant get over the chrome horns on it, but thats just me  definitely let yall know what I  end up getting!



Wow, I was starting to think I was the only one not into the horn thing.....
If you have some experience, it's hard to argue with the Yoder decision. When I wear this Traeger out, a Yoder would be top 2 or 3 on my list. Good luck let us know what you decide.


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## sandyut (Apr 17, 2019)

I think the horns look bad a**.  I also get a lot of people commenting on how cool they look.  

a handle design seems insignificant to the quality, features and value.  IMO of course...


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## SlowmotionQue (Apr 17, 2019)

sandyut said:


> I think the horns look bad a**.  I also get a lot of people commenting on how cool they look.
> 
> a handle design seems insignificant to the quality, features and value.  IMO of course...



I’m with you. I love the horns. Appearance wise, to me,  they set the Rec Tecs apart from the rest.

Years ago, at a rib contest, I saw a custom smoker made in the shape of a pig. 

When you shut the lid, smoke would come out of the pigs ears, snout, mouth, rear end or all four depending on how you had the vents set. 

Gimmicky and an tongue in cheek sort of thing, it was.   And the appearance not to be taken over seriously.   An inside joke of sorts. 

That’s sort of how I look at the Rec Tec horns thing.


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## boognish (Apr 17, 2019)

I bought a Traeger Elite 34 last year.  It's worked great and has pumped out some awesome product but I made the mistake of selling my Weber Spirit to cover some of the cost.  Now I feel like I'm missing the high quality searing even though a steak has never touched it and I'm not really buying into the whole GrillGrate add on (they are awesome when I had them for my Weber) producing a good sear.  I definitely would like one piece of equipment that can do it all but the more research I do, the more confused I get.  I'm down to Traeger Ironwood, Yoder YS640, Camp Chef SmokePro 36 SGX w/ Sear Box, and the Pitts & Spitts Maverick 1250. 

I'm leaning more towards the Camp Chef due to the sear box and it's high rating on AmazingRibs.com.  I think my 2nd choice would be the Pitts & Spitts based off of reviews I've read.  I was hooked on the Yoder for a while but they're pretty pricey and chew through pellets.


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## bregent (Apr 17, 2019)

If you think you'll be doing a lot of grilling, consider the Cookshack PG500 - it's has the best char grill on any pellet grill. It's also said to produce some of the best smoke flavor thanks to the unique design and smoke flow. It has a little less capacity for low/slow than some of the other smokers, but I've seen folks get a lot of food into it. Really depends on how many you plan to cook for, grilling needs, budget, etc.


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## sandyut (Apr 17, 2019)

boognish said:


> I bought a Traeger Elite 34 last year.  It's worked great and has pumped out some awesome product but I made the mistake of selling my Weber Spirit to cover some of the cost.  Now I feel like I'm missing the high quality searing even though a steak has never touched it and I'm not really buying into the whole GrillGrate add on (they are awesome when I had them for my Weber) producing a good sear.  I definitely would like one piece of equipment that can do it all but the more research I do, the more confused I get.  I'm down to Traeger Ironwood, Yoder YS640, Camp Chef SmokePro 36 SGX w/ Sear Box, and the Pitts & Spitts Maverick 1250.
> 
> I'm leaning more towards the Camp Chef due to the sear box and it's high rating on AmazingRibs.com.  I think my 2nd choice would be the Pitts & Spitts based off of reviews I've read.  I was hooked on the Yoder for a while but they're pretty pricey and chew through pellets.



I kept my Weber Genesis and dont regret it.  thought for amin the wife would want it gone but won that one.  I bought grill grates but havent used them.  its easier to fire the genesis, pull the meat off the rec tec and toss it on the gasser for grilling - mostly reverse sear


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## retfr8flyr (Apr 17, 2019)

If you are willing to spend the money for a Yoder you really should check out the Pits&Spitts. When I was doing my reasearch there were lots of guys that switched from Yoder to the P&S. If I hadn't run into such a great deal on my Traeger 1300, I would have gotten the P&S Maveric 1250.


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## texomakid (Apr 17, 2019)

I got a Yoder 640 and I got no complaints. As a matter of fact, I just got home from 3 weeks of hard labor and I'm fixing to fire that puppy up and do a reverse sear on a couple of Rib eyes. It's a great cooker but I'm sure there are dozens of other cookers that are good as well. My advise is get a pellet cooker (get what YOU want) and start enjoying all the benefits of pellet cooking!


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## boognish (Apr 17, 2019)

Apologies for hijacking this thread and thanks for all of the input.  It’s a daunting task trying to find the right smoker for you.  I guess I’ll just break down a draft board of my current potential picks and anyone with input regarding these certain make/models can chime in.  Criteria includes 1) Smoking/Searing flexibility 2) Price 3) Pellet Consumption 4) Aesthetic appeal.  Much appreciated!

1) camp chef smokepro 36 sgx w/ sear station
2) p&s maverick 1250
3) Yoder ys640
4) traeger ironwood


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## retfr8flyr (Apr 17, 2019)

I would get the P&S Maverick with the sear station drip pan. My only complaint about my 1300 is it doesn't sear very well, even with Grill Grates.


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## ToppDogg (Apr 17, 2019)

I'm a very happy Rec-Tec Stampede owner.   I looked and researched them all and choose the Rec-Tec Stampede for the heavier stainless and customer service.  So far I'm very happy with my purchase, I hope Rec-Tec will get more accessories for the Stampede.  Would like to have the blanket wrap for smoking in the winter months.


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## mike243 (Apr 18, 2019)

I bought a moving blanket for about $10 and drape it over the cook chamber and tuck it under a little, cheap and works great so far, temps don't get high enuf to need a welding blanket, also no sparks like a stick burner to set it on fire lol


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## BulldogsCadillac (Apr 18, 2019)

boognish said:


> I bought a Traeger Elite 34 last year.  It's worked great and has pumped out some awesome product but I made the mistake of selling my Weber Spirit to cover some of the cost.  Now I feel like I'm missing the high quality searing even though a steak has never touched it and I'm not really buying into the whole GrillGrate add on (they are awesome when I had them for my Weber) producing a good sear.  I definitely would like one piece of equipment that can do it all but the more research I do, the more confused I get.  I'm down to Traeger Ironwood, Yoder YS640, Camp Chef SmokePro 36 SGX w/ Sear Box, and the Pitts & Spitts Maverick 1250.
> 
> I'm leaning more towards the Camp Chef due to the sear box and it's high rating on AmazingRibs.com.  I think my 2nd choice would be the Pitts & Spitts based off of reviews I've read.  I was hooked on the Yoder for a while but they're pretty pricey and chew through pellets.



I did a lot of reading and researching as a 100% complete newbie to this thing we call smoking, I wasn't quite ready to open the wallet too wide (read : "wife wasn't" in place of "I wasn't") on something I've never done, nor knew if we would use. If I did have my pick of the litter, pretty sure it would have been a MAK One Star General, Two Star if you need more room. Never read anything bad about them, and the company was extremely responsive to my questions. Take a look at them, just my zero experience opinion!  Haha


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## sandyut (Apr 18, 2019)

I almost went Mac One Star but the costs were prohibitive when i rolled up everything i wanted with it.  someone mentioned this earlier but it makes the most sense to me;  find what you can afford cost wise, then see what units are in that range and then compare;

some come with the Wifi controller and some charge for it.  some people dont care if they have this - I cant see cooking without it.  
aesthetics - if that matters to you  
grill size 
accessories
warranty
customer service
reputation
shipping costs (included or extra)
many factors...
I wouldn't rush a decision - but I over-analyse a fair amount and took months to throw down for an RT 700.  but glad i did.


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## flyboys (Apr 18, 2019)

I just bought a Pit Boss Pro 1100 this morning.  Like you, I never had a pellet smoker.  It was always my UDS and MES.  The UDS is at the campsite and the MES took a crap after 10 years of service.  I’ll let you know how I make out with it.


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## RCAlan (Apr 18, 2019)

flyboys said:


> I just bought a Pit Boss Pro 1100 this morning.  Like you, I never had a pellet smoker.  It was always my UDS and MES.  The UDS is at the campsite and the MES took a crap after 10 years of service.  I’ll let you know how I make out with it.



Good luck with Your PB Pro Series 1100..   Just make sure You read and follow the Preheating steps and procedures every time you run your grill and get a good understanding of the P-Settings in your owners manual as well...  Keep the Fire Pot clean after every cook with a shop vac and You’ll be very happy with the bbq it puts out and in your new investment... 

PB Austin XL in SoCal and Always...  Semper Fi


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## flyboys (Apr 19, 2019)

RCAlan said:


> Good luck with Your PB Pro Series 1100..   Just make sure You read and follow the Preheating steps and procedures everything you run your grill and get a good understanding of the P-Settings in your owners manual as well...  Keep the Fire Pot clean after every cook with a shop vac and You’ll be very happy with the bbq it puts out and in your new investment...
> 
> PB Austin XL in SoCal and Always...  Semper Fi


Thank you RCAlan, I appreciate the pointers


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## forktender (Apr 20, 2019)

boognish said:


> I bought a Traeger Elite 34 last year.  It's worked great and has pumped out some awesome product but I made the mistake of selling my Weber Spirit to cover some of the cost.  Now I feel like I'm missing the high quality searing even though a steak has never touched it and I'm not really buying into the whole GrillGrate add on (they are awesome when I had them for my Weber) producing a good sear.  I definitely would like one piece of equipment that can do it all but the more research I do, the more confused I get.  I'm down to Traeger Ironwood, Yoder YS640, Camp Chef SmokePro 36 SGX w/ Sear Box, and the Pitts & Spitts Maverick 1250.
> 
> I'm leaning more towards the Camp Chef due to the sear box and it's high rating on AmazingRibs.com.  I think my 2nd choice would be the Pitts & Spitts based off of reviews I've read.  I was hooked on the Yoder for a while but they're pretty pricey and chew through pellets.


The P&S cookers are made at least 5X better than the C.C. units, so if you plan of using it for years to come and can swing the funds you might want to take a closer look at the P&S cookers.


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## Pelagic (Apr 30, 2019)

I picked up a Z-Grills ZPG 7002E last year ($376 delivered) and am very happy with it.  It is virtually identical to the Grilla Silverbac and all the Silverbac accessories fit.  I recently added the Alpha Smoke controller from Grilla Grills and now have the option of tradition control (more smoke) and PID control for more precise temp control.  This controller ($129) should be plug & play for many other brands. 
I don't need wifi as I have a thermometer (Therm Pro TP-07) with a remote 300' range and I'm always home when cooking.


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## SlowmotionQue (Apr 30, 2019)

Pelagic said:


> I picked up a Z-Grills ZPG 7002E last year ($376 delivered) and am very happy with it.  It is virtually identical to the Grilla Silverbac and all the Silverbac accessories fit.  I recently added the Alpha Smoke controller from Grilla Grills and now have the option of tradition control (more smoke) and PID control for more precise temp control.  This controller ($129) should be plug & play for many other brands.
> I don't need wifi as I have a thermometer (Therm Pro TP-07) with a remote 300' range and I'm always home when cooking.



I'm curious about this, and I'm glad to see that you are enjoying your grill and controller.

But I have to ask.  Where does the notion that wild temperature swings, which are characteristic of non PID controlled pellet grills,  are "good" for a better smoke flavor come from, and has anyone actually proven this?

I've seen the claim made by companies who in the past didn't, or which still do not offer PID controllers.  But I've often wondered if this was more of a situation of saying:  "yeah, we can't give you precise temps down to plus or minus 5 degrees.  But wild temp swings are not a bad thing because they give you more smoke."

If anything, I suspect a placebo effect here, and a blind taste test possibly would not prove any difference in smoke profile between meat cooked on a PID controlled  pellet grill vs one which was not PID controlled and allowed 30*-40* or more temperature swings during the same cook.

Does anyone see that they're getting "more smoke" from pellets in a grill set at and showing 250* straight through a cook,  vs another one set at 250* and showing say, 275-285* at multiple points then backing down to 230* for a few minutes before going back up to 265*, 270*, etc?


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## Pelagic (Apr 30, 2019)

I usually sit out on the patio while my grill is running and observe the operation.  My grill definitely makes more smoke in the traditional setting.  When I switch to PID mode there is only occasional smoke and very little at that.  No real measurement, just observation.
I'm putting St. Louis ribs on in about an hour for a 3 hour smoke session and then switch to PID for the remainder of the cook...I'll be paying more attention today...Hey, it's raining and I have nothing better to do!


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## SlowmotionQue (Apr 30, 2019)

Out of curiosity, what is the temperature of the lowest PID setting when you’re in “PID mode”?

The reason why I ask is, some PID controllers have a low setting which is less than 200*, down around 180* actually.  I wonder if this would be the equivalent of running in what you’re describing as “traditional setting” with your controller.


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## Pelagic (Apr 30, 2019)

Just fired the grill up...I'll switch to PID mode and run the temp down to 180 and check it out.

Interesting...Holding a constant 200 degrees and no noticeable smoke - has no sign that it's going to go down to 180 degrees though - fan is cycling on/off as is usual in PID when temp is reached.

OK, settled in at 180 degrees....can hear auger run every other fan cycle to feed just enough pellets to maintain temp - virtually zero smoke since initial start up.

I'm switching to traditional mode because I want to get SOME smoke on the ribs!


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## bregent (Apr 30, 2019)

SlowmotionQue said:


> I've seen the claim made by companies who in the past didn't, or which still do not offer PID controllers. But I've often wondered if this was more of a situation of saying: "yeah, we can't give you precise temps down to plus or minus 5 degrees. But wild temp swings are not a bad thing because they give you more smoke."


.

My own observations after owning a PID and non PID grills, and eating food from several other of both styles is this. PID's I've worked with appear to have more continuous smoke during operation. Non PID's produce more intermittent smoke that is much heavier during smoke phase, and lighter to non-existing during the non smoke phase. The net amount of smoke produced during the cook is probably about the same, and the amount of smoke flavor is indistinguishable by me. 

The non PID grills I've experienced are my CC, and other friends Traegers. PID grill are a few different Memphis's and a RecTec, both of which use Roanoke controllers which pulse the fan to produce more smoke and keep it in the chamber longer.  Obviously, other makes/models might produce different results.


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## SlowmotionQue (Apr 30, 2019)

bregent said:


> .
> 
> My own observations after owning a PID and non PID grills, and eating food from several other of both styles is this. PID's I've worked with appear to have more continuous smoke during operation. Non PID's produce more intermittent smoke that is much heavier during smoke phase, and lighter to non-existing during the non smoke phase. The net amount of smoke produced during the cook is probably about the same, and the amount of smoke flavor is indistinguishable by me.
> 
> The non PID grills I've experienced are my CC, and other friends Traegers. PID grill are a few different Memphis's and a RecTec, both of which use Roanoke controllers which pulse the fan to produce more smoke and keep it in the chamber longer.  Obviously, other makes/models might produce different results.



This is sort of what I suspected.

Pellets don't know whether they're being burned in a PID controlled grill or a non PID controlled grill.

My own observation is that pellets, no matter what they are being burned in,  produce less smoke the hotter they are being burned.

It would seem to me that a burn at a lower and steady temperature, would produce smoke as well as, if not better than, a burn with widely fluctuation temperatures.

Some of what causes my skepticism here is the Grilla Grills situation.

In the time period "before" they  were offering  a grill with a PID controller in it, their marketing was more focused on the notion that PID controlled grills offered less smoke taste to food, and the implication was that  their non PID controlled  grills offered a smoke taste advantage.

In other words, if you wanted the best smoke tasting food, then you'd have to tolerate the wide temperature swings that are typically attributable to non PID controlled grills .

The purchasing public apparently must not have been buying that notion across the board.

However now they are offering a grill with a PID controlled option.

That sounds strange to me.

If the position that food cooked on PID controlled grills somehow tasted less than what it ought to, because temps were "too steady" and did not fluctuate widely, well then why now offer grills that come with such controllers?  Why offer grills which would produce inferior tasting food?

This leads me to believe that this claim was BS to begin with.  If they believed it so much, well then why now start selling grills which would produce "worse" tasting food?


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## ameskimo1 (May 2, 2019)

SlowmotionQue said:


> This is sort of what I suspected.
> 
> Pellets don't know whether they're being burned in a PID controlled grill or a non PID controlled grill.
> 
> ...




Actually, if you read into it, you will find your answer to the question. Rather than continue the battle with the PID crowd and the ever raging debate over PID or non, they simply developed a controller that does both. Now you can cook with whichever method you like on the same grill. PID to some also has a benefit of holding 180 for things like jerky - although my non PID has had no problem making jerky. I have the Silverbac and can tell you without a doubt it has temperature swings, just like it is designed to do but they are by no means wild as you say. Talk to some owners and you will find out exactly why they are happy they bought a Grilla.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 2, 2019)

ameskimo1 said:


> Actually, if you read into it, you will find your answer to the question. Rather than continue the battle with the PID crowd and the ever raging debate over PID or non, they simply developed a controller that does both....



Understood.

But my question is “why,  if what they were touting earlier, a non PID controller grill, was in fact, offering more smoke flavor and hence better tasting food?

If temperature swings , be they “wild” or “tame”, offer the best smoke flavor, well then why deviate from that and start offering grills that would produce less smoke?

I could be wrong, and readily admit that I could be.

But it sounds like marketing to me.


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## txgunlover (May 2, 2019)

SlowmotionQue said:


> Understood.
> 
> But my question is “why,  if what they were touting earlier, a non PID controller grill, was in fact was offering more smoke flavor and hence better tasting food?


Absolutely not... My RecTec's both put out tons of smoke and have perfect temperature control.   I can't imagine ever going non-pid.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 2, 2019)

txgunlover said:


> Absolutely not... My RecTec's both put out tons of smoke and have perfect temperature control.   I can't imagine ever going non-pid.



Well gun lover, that’s the curious part for me. 

Before, when Grilla Grills wasn’t offering a PID controller grill, they touted the position that a non PID controller grill offered more smoke and more smoke flavor. 

A year later, they start offering a grill with a PID controller. 

I’m wondering why if when it came to smoke, PID controlled grills were at a handicap.


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## txgunlover (May 2, 2019)

SlowmotionQue said:


> Well gun lover, that’s the curious part for me.
> 
> Before, when Grilla Grills wasn’t offering a PID controller grill, they touted the position that a non PID controller grill offered more smoke and more smoke flavor.
> 
> ...



Exactly... PID is definitely better in my experience, but to each their own.


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## Pelagic (May 2, 2019)

I used traditional controller setting for 3 hours of 180 degree smoke - wrapped the racks, switched to PID mode and "cooked" the ribs at 225 degrees for 1.5 hours.  Sauced and hot cooked at 375 for 45 mins...

I like having options.


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## metsfan2152 (May 2, 2019)

Pelagic said:


> I used traditional controller setting for 3 hours of 180 degree smoke - wrapped the racks, switched to PID mode and "cooked" the ribs at 225 degrees for 1.5 hours.  Sauced and hot cooked at 375 for 45 mins...
> 
> I like having options.


Right but I still don't understand why you wouldn't want a PID? Are you saying you get more smoke i'm confused here


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## SlowmotionQue (May 2, 2019)

Pelagic said:


> I used traditional controller setting for 3 hours of 180 degree smoke - wrapped the racks, switched to PID mode and "cooked" the ribs at 225 degrees for 1.5 hours.  Sauced and hot cooked at 375 for 45 mins...
> 
> I like having options.



Nice.  And glad you're enjoying your options.

But I could set my Rec Tec to Extreme Smoke at 180* and then up my temps to 225 for 1.5hrs and stay in "PID mode" the whole time.




metsfan2152 said:


> Right but I still don't understand why you wouldn't want a PID? Are you saying you get more smoke i'm confused here



Kinda my question too?


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## ameskimo1 (May 4, 2019)

So PID or non is the ever going debate and may as well be conservative vs liberal. It isn't going to be solved anytime soon. Grilla just got smart and offered both on the same unit. Is it them crying uncle and saying PID is better now? I don't think so, I think it's them saying you can now use their grill in whichever mode you like. Just like a poster above wouldn't have a non PID, I have no use for one with it. But now we can both cook on the same brand of grill. I think it's a brilliant move that sets up a great marketing opportunity. There are a lot of awesome grills out there that one could not go wrong with, but after using the Silverbac it is by far my favorite way to cook


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## metsfan2152 (May 4, 2019)

ameskimo1 said:


> So PID or non is the ever going debate and may as well be conservative vs liberal. It isn't going to be solved anytime soon. Grilla just got smart and offered both on the same unit. Is it them crying uncle and saying PID is better now? I don't think so, I think it's them saying you can now use their grill in whichever mode you like. Just like a poster above wouldn't have a non PID, I have no use for one with it. But now we can both cook on the same brand of grill. I think it's a brilliant move that sets up a great marketing opportunity. There are a lot of awesome grills out there that one could not go wrong with, but after using the Silverbac it is by far my favorite way to cook


I am not trying to cause an argument. I am just trying to understand 1 benefit from using a non-PID. For me it just does not make sense to even promote something that does not have benefits over the other one.


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## ameskimo1 (May 4, 2019)

metsfan2152 said:


> I am not trying to cause an argument. I am just trying to understand 1 benefit from using a non-PID. For me it just does not make sense to even promote something that does not have benefits over the other one.



Why not? Companies do that all the time. Why would Ford promote a Mustang and an F150? In reality they are both just modes of transportation, right? Or why promote a base model XL over a Platinum model? They are both just trucks in reality, right? Or, it could be that they are saying that they realize everyone has a different preference and are attempting to offer a product to everyone. Instead of saying an F150 is better than a Mustang they can now say Ford is better than the competition. Why fight a battle with yourself when you can instead put the energy into a battle with the competition?

Now I say this with utmost respect and don't mean to come off as a smarta**, If you really want to know, call them up and ask them directly or send an email or facebook message. If it is an answer you want, they will give it to you - but you have to be open to the answer instead of asking the same question over and over.


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## metsfan2152 (May 4, 2019)

ameskimo1 said:


> Why not? Companies do that all the time. Why would Ford promote a Mustang and an F150? In reality they are both just modes of transportation, right? Or why promote a base model XL over a Platinum model? They are both just trucks in reality, right? Or, it could be that they are saying that they realize everyone has a different preference and are attempting to offer a product to everyone. Instead of saying an F150 is better than a Mustang they can now say Ford is better than the competition. Why fight a battle with yourself when you can instead put the energy into a battle with the competition?
> 
> Now I say this with utmost respect and don't mean to come off as a smarta**, If you really want to know, call them up and ask them directly or send an email or facebook message. If it is an answer you want, they will give it to you - but you have to be open to the answer instead of asking the same question over and over.


I mean that analogy is way off lol. Ones a truck ones a car there are huge differences there. I can name over 10 differences of why you would use each one. I can't see any benefit of using a Non PID vs a PID.


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## sweetride95 (May 4, 2019)

I'm going PID as we speak on my Traeger.
I don't have a problem finding enough smoke to satisfy my pallet, so I really could care less with the non-PID argument.
My brain likes to see accuracy, so in that alone it's worth the change. I don't expect to make any better food.
I am a 25 yr machinist, who runs the EDM dept, and also am head of our ISO QC/Calibrations. So every 25+/- degree swing was a little chip off the back of my OCD brain.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 4, 2019)

sweetride95 said:


> I'm going PID as we speak on my Traeger.
> I don't have a problem finding enough smoke to satisfy my pallet, so I really could care less with the non-PID argument.
> My brain likes to see accuracy, so in that alone it's worth the change. I don't expect to make any better food.
> I am a 25 yr machinist, who runs the EDM dept, and also am head of our ISO QC/Calibrations. So every 25+/- degree swing was a little chip off the back of my OCD brain.



I follow you.

But on top of being OCD myself, I'm a skeptic.

I see the lack of a PID controller, and then trying to argue that this is an "advantage",  or a "desirable feature", with no objective proof that I can find anywhere,  is akin to trying to promote a "bug" as a "feature".  A shortcoming as a virtue.

If I'm a home builder, and  don't offer programmable thermostats in homes I build, and I promote this not as a "disadvantage", but as a "feature", and show no proof of what I'm offering as being an "advantage", well many are going to be skeptical of my position.

And then a year later, I start offering homes with "both" type thermostats in them, well then what are my prior customers to think who I sold homes to with the old thermostat in them, and vehemently told them that they were getting the best thing?

If I'm a new customer, I'm wondering why the switch if the old way was the best way, and the salesman actually believed that as strongly as he indicated back when the old was was being touted.

If I'm an old customer, I'm wondering what gives.

Demand is ultimately what makes many companies change their tune.  That and keeping up with the competition.  Stubbornly not offering the purchasing public what it wants, what it's been reading about,  and then trying to convince the purchasing public of an "advantage" going the old  route vs the new,  and offering that up with no objective proof of the claimed advantage, is a tough.

People like set and forget, no muss, no fuss products, and that dates all the way back to the alarm clock.  If not further.

Trying to convince them that the rooster is actually a better idea, is going to be a tough argument.  Ultimately if you're a company, you'll need to offer an alarm clock if you want to compete in the waking people up on time market.  And it says here, that you will eventually phase the rooster out of duty.

When I look at this, just speaking for myself here, I see a case of offering the buying public what it wanted.  And likely recognizing less than optimal results in the effort  to convince potential purchasers that PID controllers were not as good as non PID controllers when it comes to the end result of cooked food.

That route/argument/position,  had no future,  or not a very bright one anyway, and I tend to believe that this was recognized.  Hence the switch.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 4, 2019)

metsfan2152 said:


> I mean that analogy is way off lol. Ones a truck ones a car there are huge differences there. I can name over 10 differences of why you would use each one. I can't see any benefit of using a Non PID vs a PID.



If there were a consistently measurable and probable benefit, some company  would have demonstrated it already.

Without that, it’s just a company claim.

Well, what’s likely to happen, is that many of those who have a controller which will do “both” modes, PID or non PID, they are going to find the mode they likes and stick to it.

It’s like tilt and telescopic steering wheels and electric mirrors.

You set it one time, and never again move it. But you paid for it.

Many, if not most, will set it one time. Likely in PID, finding no discernible taste difference between it and non PID. And will leave it there.

In two years time or less, it would not surprise me if the bi mode controller is gone and the only offering by that company  is PID.

The following are my opinions on this matter after seeing marketing hype in a lot of products.  This is how it appears to me.

I think it was hogwash that non PID controlled grills produced "more" smoke, and by extension or "implication" better tasting food as a result of wider temperature swings,  to begin with.

Where is the objective proof?

Whether or not it is hogwash, prospective customers in the potential purchasing pool,  may not have been uniformly  convinced of it.

This scenario would seem to prompt changes  in the marketing strategy in order to compete in the crowded pellet grill market.  Many companies in it already offering PID controlled products.

Hence after touting one setup, I see jumping ship to another.

It would seem that if  touting the old way had been optimally effective when it came to customer acquisition, then there would have been no switch.  Or no motivation for one anyway.

Thus  to me, customer acquisition as opposed to "taste" appears to have been the motivating factor.


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## retfr8flyr (May 4, 2019)

I think Grilla felt they were loosing too many customers with their lak of a PID controller, hence the new dual version. It's just marketing sense, most potential buyers are convinced that a PID controller is better, so they almost had to start offering one.


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## metsfan2152 (May 4, 2019)

Yea of course. But saying that a non pid controller is better is just nonsense.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 4, 2019)

retfr8flyr said:


> I think Grilla felt they were loosing too many customers with their lak of a PID controller, hence the new dual version. It's just marketing sense, most potential buyers are convinced that a PID controller is better, so they almost had to start offering one.



My opinion is consistent with yours on this.

I don’t think that it had as much to do with “taste” as was touted before, as it had to do with “market share” and the prospect or potential  of losing whatever portion of that. 



metsfan2152 said:


> Yea of course. But saying that a non pid controller is better is just nonsense.



But makes marketing sense.

If all that you have to offer is the old, well then you might be motivated to tout it as the best.

And so you get into a question of whether one way is being hyped because it’s actually the best?

Or is it being hyped because that’s all that I offer at the current time?

Or are you going to hype what you have in inventory?

Or are you going to give props to what your competitors have in inventory but you don’t?

Now a year later, when you finally get what your competitors have and which is selling like hot cakes, what are you going to do?

You might still offer what you were selling before. But you’ll start selling hot cakes too.

And likely eventually phasing the old offering out altogether.


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## metsfan2152 (May 4, 2019)

SlowmotionQue said:


> My opinion is consistent with yours on this.
> 
> I don’t think that it had as much to do with “taste” as was touted before, as it had to do with “market share” and the prospect or potential  of losing whatever portion of that.
> 
> ...


I feel like though you should have a lower cost with out the PID controller that should be your selling point. Anyway just voicing my opinion.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 4, 2019)

metsfan2152 said:


> I feel like though you should have a lower cost with out the PID controller that should be your selling point. Anyway just voicing my opinion.



Same here, it's all opinion.

I'm just pointing out that which I've pointed out in effort to show that marketing hype seems to be alive and well when it comes to any of this.

I get what you're saying regarding the lower price.

But the problem with that move is that  for just  a few dollars more, a prospective buyer could go ahead and get a competing product with a PID controller in it, and you still lose a sale to another company.

Trying to convince people that wider fluctuations in cooking temperature, which was among your selling points,   was somehow conducive to smoke flavor was on the one hand, genius.   As there is no consistently reliable way to prove or disprove  such.

Now that you are in a position to totally eliminate wide temp fluctuations from your products, well what's the best move?

You can't simply  abandon the concept and prior position that you held months ago, and go on to adopt  one which indicates or points to a belief  that wide temp fluctuations  were never of any advantage to begin with.  At least you can't do that  "cold turkey" anyway,  no pun intended.

Doing that would be an admission that wide temperature swings were never a requisite to getting good flavor in the first place, and the prior claims were hype.

So you do the next best thing.  You offer "both".   The old and the new.  And in so doing, possibly knowing all along that the buyer who has the capability to use "both",  is probably going to only use one.


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## Winterrider (May 4, 2019)




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## ameskimo1 (May 5, 2019)

Winterrider said:


>


I agree, this is making waaaaay too much out of nothing. This is a hobby I, like most here, enjoy; this thread is like the on and on club about somethign that is preference. The guy is just picking and would be further ahead getting the grill he likes and moving onto the next topic.


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## Pelagic (May 5, 2019)

Yawn...What's cooking today?  I did 2 spatchcocked chickens yesterday and my neighbor has a massive meat collection going into his Traeger today...Cinco de Mayo and all.


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## mike243 (May 5, 2019)

Wings and all I know is the lower the temps the more smoke I have, your mileage may vary


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## SlowmotionQue (May 5, 2019)

Pelagic said:


> Yawn...What's cooking today?  I did 2 spatchcocked chickens yesterday and my neighbor has a massive meat collection going into his Traeger today...Cinco de Mayo and all.



Just put these on.








I guess I'll have to sacrifice on the smoke flavor due to my temps holding steady and not swinging all over the place.
Good thing I'm using a smoke tube.






Just picked these two up today at Sam's. They'll be getting the same treatment in a week or so.  Only at 225*.  Steady.


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## Pelagic (May 5, 2019)

May have to get me a smoke tube!

I'm sort of regretting getting rid of my Masterbuilt vertical stick smoker....Oh well..


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## ameskimo1 (May 5, 2019)

Pelagic said:


> May have to get me a smoke tube!
> 
> I'm sort of regretting getting rid of my Masterbuilt vertical smoker....Oh well..



Love and still have my MB vertical dual fuel although I tended to burn sticks and/or lump; made some great food in that thing. Biggest reason I migrated to pellets was to get away from babysitting all day.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 5, 2019)

Well, this is how they came out at a steady 250*.  Wrapped in foil when the bark set.  Butter, brown sugar, and apple juice.  Then unwrapped and run at 425* for just long enough to refirm  the bark before applying the sauce and letting it set.

For those who believe that the "smoke ring" is the be all and end all and an indicator of how much "smoke" the meat absorbed, and how "smokey" these are, well; this is what a steady 250* gets you.







And here I was only halfway trying because I got off to a late start and decided to go at 250* instead of 225*.  Had I gone 225*, considering that these came right out of the fridge after sitting in the fridge for a couple hours,  and went onto the grates cold straight from the fridge, the smoke ring would have been more visual.

Three bites should easily tell me what I want to know.  These are tender, juicy, and have just enough smoke flavor.  The bone is clean where it was bitten.

Good food can be had without the tradeoff of having your temps bouncing all over the place.

These ware done on a Rec Tec Stampede.  On a flat out whim. I was bored and it was late already.   The were running at a steady 250* until after the  bark set.  Then the foil wrap phase for about an hour, at which point they were unwrapped then run at 425* "buck nekkid" to  firm up the bark again, set the sauce, and take them home.







C'mon SlowmotionQue.  I've seen you clean a bone with one bite better than that when you still had baby teeth.  I know that the rib in the last pic was hot, but let's try that again, and this time give it the ol' college try.

Cut off a new bone Que.






Ah, yeah.  That's looking good.   Go ahead and give it a bite.  With meaning this time.






Now see that's, that's what I'm talking about.  If that bone hadn't gotten in the way, you would have bitten clean through.

Go ahead and take it on home.


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## sweetride95 (May 6, 2019)

Proof is in the quality of your finished product. I could care less how you get there. 
Enjoy your process. Like anything, repetition and knowing your equipment, PID or not, matters most.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 6, 2019)

sweetride95 said:


> Proof is in the quality of your finished product. I could care less how you get there.
> Enjoy your process. Like anything, repetition and knowing your equipment, PID or not, matters most.



So very true.  Good food can be produced with either. So the position that one offers an advantage over the other in terms of the end result, and smoky taste, is a sales pitch  

And one can take that analogy all the way down to using a pellet smoker for an overnight cook vs tending fire all night long using a stick burner.

Some are going to choose pellets. Others stick burners.

Good food can be produced with either.


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## habitat (May 6, 2019)

I love baked goods, the pellet grill is always the choice of many baked goods


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## bregent (May 6, 2019)

retfr8flyr said:


> I think Grilla felt they were loosing too many customers with their lak of a PID controller, hence the new dual version. It's just marketing sense, most potential buyers are convinced that a PID controller is better, so they almost had to start offering one.



Yeah, I think you're right about that. And they had to continue providing the non-PID option as they have been claiming that it's better than PID for years. I will say this though - not all PID controllers are created equal, and the same is true for non-PID. Fast Eddy controllers are not PID, and most folks love them over PID controllers for their flexibility of control.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 6, 2019)

bregent said:


> Yeah, I think you're right about that. And they had to continue providing the non-PID option as they have been claiming that it's better than PID for years. I will say this though - not all PID controllers are created equal, and the same is true for non-PID. Fast Eddy controllers are not PID, and most folks love them over PID controllers for their flexibility of control.



Bingo.


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## ameskimo1 (May 6, 2019)

How exactly was Grilla losing customers? Curious where you get that information from?

They only sell direct and are selling them about as fast as they can get them out the door. No Costco, no Cabela's, etc.


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## metsfan2152 (May 6, 2019)

ameskimo1 said:


> How exactly was Grilla losing customers? Curious where you get that information from?
> 
> They only sell direct and are selling them about as fast as they can get them out the door. No Costco, no Cabela's, etc.


I mean good for them if they are selling them fast. But I mean why else would they preach non-pid is better and then switch to PID. I think they did it the best way possible from the marketing standpoint. To put both PID and non-pid modes on the units. My only guess is to get more customers and compete with other pellet competitors.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 6, 2019)

metsfan2152 said:


> I mean good for them if they are selling them fast. But I mean why else would they preach non-pid is better and then switch to PID. I think they did it the best way possible from the marketing standpoint. To put both PID and non-pid modes on the units. My only guess is to get more customers and compete with other pellet competitors.



If things were going along swimmingly and they thought that current sales couldn’t be improved upon, well then why not stick with the prior story of “non PID is better”, instead of switching up and offering a PID option?

They certainly didn’t change up and switch to offering a PID option after sticking to the hard core prior “non PID is better” position with the intent of “losing” sales.

They didn’t change their tune in an effort to lose sales or leave sales at their prior levels.  They changed their tune in an effort to gain sales.


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## sweetride95 (May 7, 2019)

Non-PID is better because the $/unit is probably measurably cheaper. 
Millions of Pit Boss and Traegers out there making the same food a few thousand Rec Tec or MAKs are making.
Buy whatever makes you feel good. If a $5000 pellet grill, built with .500" thick plate steel, gets you there, go for it.
What won't we bench race?


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## SlowmotionQue (May 7, 2019)

Pretty soon, it might come down to “buy what’s available.”

If either option is phased out, then it will be interesting to see which of the two it will be. PID or non PID.

One company which preached the benefits of non PID, now seems to be doing it’s part and making some effort to phase it out.

One might wonder what their motivations for doing so are. Especially after touting the other option for so long and hard.

Seems that other manufacturers are doing their part to phase it out too.

I wonder why?

Probably for some of the same reasons that “three on the column” transmissions were eventually phased out.


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## sweetride95 (May 7, 2019)

Adding a PID to my Traeger has really changed how the grill feels. It makes my mediocre grill feel much higher quality. A decent amount of accuracy, literal or perceived, makes a difference. Why wouldn't Traeger or somebody similar take advantage of it.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 7, 2019)

As long as there are big box stores, membership buying clubs, chain hardware stores and infomercials, some people will continue to buy Traegers no matter what they put into them.

With their market share, where really is Traeger’s motivation to move much further beyond what they offer  already?


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## sweetride95 (May 7, 2019)

Very true, I bought mine based on 3 separate friends having them and making great food. Plus I was supporting my local Do It Best hardware. If I were to do it again, I'd gotten something clean off of the market place, and updated it to a PID. I tend to start modest and just concentrate on getting the mileage in, then once my tight-assed brain is validated, I'll swing for a higher quality piece.


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## dubob (May 7, 2019)

Sorry, but I have to comment.  You guys are funny in a ha ha way.  Very entertaining comments on how and why a company makes marketing decisions without being privy to company information, goals, profit levels, etc.  No disrespect intended to any of you or your comments, but i do find this discussion entertaining and good for some chuckles.  Peace and good cooks to all y'all.


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## habitat (May 8, 2019)

SlowmotionQue said:


> Bingo.


Thanks


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## SlowmotionQue (May 9, 2019)

Money is a funny thing.

It is usually the top motivating factor behind most marketing decisions and other decisions made by for profit businesses.  

https://www.cpcstrategy.com/blog/2017/10/grilla-grills-shifts-direct-to-consumer/


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## sweetride95 (May 9, 2019)

SlowmotionQue said:


> Money is a funny thing.
> 
> It is usually the top motivating factor behind most marketing decisions and other decisions made by for profit businesses.
> 
> https://www.cpcstrategy.com/blog/2017/10/grilla-grills-shifts-direct-to-consumer/



It's always about the money, more the merrier.


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## SlowmotionQue (May 9, 2019)

Indeed it is.

You don’t need to see financials, a mission statement or a prospectus in order to see what’s driving this move.


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## metsfan2152 (May 9, 2019)

I cant think of any other motivating factor. Its about getting more customers and more money.


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