# Thinking of selling my MES 30



## johnmeyer (Feb 2, 2016)

Well, after an intense four months of doing lots of smoking, building and then buying mods (the AMNPS) and trying out all sorts of ideas, I have come to the conclusion that the MES is not capable of producing a satisfying end product. The main problem is that the smoke taste is bitter and numbing, a sure sign of creosote. I have not been able to find a way around this.

Things I have tried:

I have always kept the vent open;
I have tried hot smokes (225 and above) and colder smokes (140-180).
I bought the AMNPS and have used both pellets and dust in that contraption;
I have tried using water in the pan, and then no water in the pan;
I have tried chilling the food before putting it in the smoker, and then tried putting room temperature food in the smoker
I have put chips in the smoker as soon as I have started it, and have waited until it is at full hear before adding chips.
I have read hundreds and hundreds of posts in this forum
Reluctantly I conclude that the underlying concept behind this method of smoking is fatally flawed because it doesn't move much air/smoke past the food, and contains everything inside the smoker for way too long a time, allowing all the bad parts of the smoke to adhere to food (and the inside of the smoker). I've now read several articles about how much air/smoke moves through this box compared to, say, an offset smoker, and there is a several order of magnitude (i.e., more than 10x) difference.

I don't have the time or space to get a "real" smoker, so this will also be my exit from the art of smoking.

The one thing I will miss is this forum. It is one of the best on the Internet, and I have really enjoyed my brief time here.

John Meyer

Carmel, CA


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## SmokinAl (Feb 2, 2016)

Sorry to hear that.

At this point I don't think anything I say will change your mind.

However for me giving up is not an option in anything I do.

Hopefully you will reconsider and give it another go.

Al


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## dr k (Feb 2, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Well, after an intense four months of doing lots of smoking, building and then buying mods (the AMNPS) and trying out all sorts of ideas, I have come to the conclusion that the MES is not capable of producing a satisfying end product. The main problem is that the smoke taste is bitter and numbing, and sure sign of creosote. I have not been able to find a way around this.
> 
> Things I have tried:
> 
> ...


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## daveomak (Feb 2, 2016)

Which model do you have ?


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## johnmeyer (Feb 2, 2016)

> However for me giving up is not an option in anything I do.


I too pride myself on not giving up. Having said that, "_Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results._" Or another one from the business world: _Sometimes you have to "cut your losses_."

Both of these illustrate that the pride of never giving up is sometimes not a virtue.


> The mailbox mod gets the AMNPS out of the heated cooking chamber and allows creosote and resins to condense on cooler surfaces before going into the smoker.


The mailbox mod is the one thing I haven't tried, and I can certainly understand how it might help. I'm weighing the time and effort (and small investment) to build that vs. the possibility that it may not help because of the basic overall design flaw in the concept of taking a college dorm refrigerator and turning it into a smoker. Based on all the reading I've done the last few days, one of the major issues with the MES design is the extremely small amount of air/smoke that goes through it compared to most other, older, more conventional smokers. This radically alters the smoke deposition characteristics.


> Are all your pellets from Todd? Just making sure you don't have wood fuel pellets for pellet stove heaters.


I purchased all  my pellets directly from Todd (I'm going to have quite a nice supply left when I sell this). I read about the issues of using Traeger and other heating pellets, so I wasn't even tempted to go with them.


> Which model do you have ?


The exact model of my Masterbuilt is: MODEL 20070910. It is a 30" MES, which was given to me in early November and, apparently, was purchased from Amazon. AFIK, there is nothing broken or defective with the unit itself.


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## old sarge (Feb 2, 2016)

johnmeyer- I think several members on this forum can help you out with your MES. But if not, and you still want to smoke good, there are inexpensive offsets available. On the electric side there are those from Cookshack, Smokin-it, and SmokinTex. No mods necessary. Just something to think about. Good luck. Dave


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## johnmeyer (Feb 2, 2016)

old sarge said:


> johnmeyer- I think several members on this forum can help you out with your MES. But if not, and you still want to smoke good, there are inexpensive offsets available. On the electric side there are those from Cookshack, Smokin-it, and SmokinTex. No mods necessary. Just something to think about. Good luck. Dave


Thanks. I'll take a look at them.


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## daricksta (Feb 2, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Well, after an intense four months of doing lots of smoking, building and then buying mods (the AMNPS) and trying out all sorts of ideas, I have come to the conclusion that the MES is not capable of producing a satisfying end product. The main problem is that the smoke taste is bitter and numbing, and sure sign of creosote. I have not been able to find a way around this.
> 
> Things I have tried:
> 
> ...


You're somehow getting too much. That's exactly what causes the taste problems you've described. What's the average number of hours per smoke have the AMNPS going? I had the same problem when I first started smoking while using wood chips. After I switched to wood pellets that problem went away unless I left meat in contact with smoke for over 11 hours in my MES 30 Gen 1. This is a situation where it';d be nice if you had a buddy familiar with the MES and the AMNPS observing while you smoke. I've had my MES for over 3 years and I get great smoke that enhances the food and doesn't overpower it. I cold smoked cheeses before Thanksgiving and they turned out to be the best I've ever done.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 2, 2016)

daRicksta said:


> You're somehow getting too much. That's exactly what causes the taste problems you've described. What's the average number of hours per smoke have the AMNPS going? I had the same problem when I first started smoking while using wood chips. After I switched to wood pellets that problem went away unless I left meat in contact with smoke for over 11 hours in my MES 30 Gen 1. This is a situation where it';d be nice if you had a buddy familiar with the MES and the AMNPS observing while you smoke. I've had my MES for over 3 years and I get great smoke that enhances the food and doesn't overpower it. I cold smoked cheeses before Thanksgiving and they turned out to be the best I've ever done.


Well anything is possible, and I sure could be wrong, but I don't _think _I'm getting too much smoke. I seldom see more than a few wisps of smoke coming out the fully open exhaust.

The number of hours I have the AMNPS going depends on the smoke. Yesterday I did three separate smokes, in this order:

*Jerky* - Two hours at 160; finished off in convection oven at 140 for five hours (my poor-man's dehydrator). Used Todd's "Pitmaster Blend" pellets in the AMNPS
*Salmon *- Almost four hours, most of it at 160, but I increased the temp (to about 185) at the end to get the salmon to 145. Used Todd's apple sawdust.
*Almonds *- Two hours at 225. I used apple chips in the MES, feeding it about every 35 minutes. I did not use the AMNPS for this smoke.
It is the almonds that are my "canary in the coal mine." Someone suggested to me that I should smoke crackers so I can taste the smoke, without any other flavors interfering. Almonds (with a brown sugar/cinnamon coating) do have flavors of their own, but there is very little interaction with protein or fat layers the way there is with meat, chicken and fish, so the smoke flavor shines through pretty clearly. It is these almonds that often have a tongue-numbing quality, and which really don't taste quite right. I actually threw out my first batch, back in December, but kept at it, adjusting everything I could think of, and reading lots of posts here and elsewhere. I've done them over half a dozen times now, but the smoke still doesn't taste very good.

Right after I got the MES, I did cold smoke some cheese. I initially tried cold-smoking cheese with my own external smoking attachment, but threw that cheese out  because even after a few weeks of mellowing in the fridge, it was still inedible. About three weeks ago I cold-smoked some gouda, right after I got the AMNSP. It is about time to break that open and see what it tastes like. The initial tasting out of the smoker was not promising, but we'll see.

I'm trying to talk myself into doing a mailbox mod, but if I do that, perhaps I should try to clean off the varnish layer inside the smoker to get rid of any bad stuff that has built up. I don't know if that is worth doing, or if it is even possible.


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## daricksta (Feb 3, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Well anything is possible, and I sure could be wrong, but I don't _think _I'm getting too much smoke. I seldom see more than a few wisps of smoke coming out the fully open exhaust.
> 
> The number of hours I have the AMNPS going depends on the smoke. Yesterday I did three separate smokes, in this order:
> 
> ...


I just saw the first sentence of my comment was in complete. I then read your sentence  I seldom see more than a few wisps of smoke coming out the fully open exhaust. The problem is with the lack of airflow with your smoker, trapping the smoke inside. With my MES 30 Gen 1 I see TBS to heavier smoke rising up through my wide open top vent. When I open the door to move meat around or to foil it smoke comes out but no more than is to be expected. Todd Johnson wrote in either this thread or another one that lack of airflow is still a problem in the 2.0 and 2.5 models. This is why I'm, glad I've stuck with my cheapo little guy. The Q I've produced over the past 3 years that I've been using wood pellets in the AMNPS has won me a bunch of praise. I know how to control how much exposure to smoke food gets inside my MES. But my smoker is much different from yours.

I don't think a mailbox mod is the answer for you. The AMNPS is producing more than enough smoke. Your MES is just doing a poor job of moving it at the vent. That's a design problem. Beyond that I have no answers for you other than contact Masterbuilt and see what they advise or are willing to do for you.


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## cmayna (Feb 3, 2016)

I've always wondered if the MES units need more exhaust and intake vents to help move the air/smoke.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 3, 2016)

daRicksta said:


> I just saw the first sentence of my comment was in complete. I then read your sentence  I seldom see more than a few wisps of smoke coming out the fully open exhaust. The problem is with the lack of airflow with your smoker, trapping the smoke inside. <snip>


I did post, in some other threads, my mod to take care of that. I replace the chip loader with a duct elbow that has a tin can attached to it. In the end of the tin can, I drilled five holes that are larger in diameter than the three holes in the chip loader. This provides several times the amount of air that can make its way through the chip loader holes. I've shown this pic before, but here it is again. The crinkled end goes into the chip loader hole.













Cold%20Smoke%20AMNSP%20Mod_zpsuqdkpcwj.jpg



__ johnmeyer
__ Feb 3, 2016


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## daricksta (Feb 3, 2016)

cmayna said:


> I've always wondered if the MES units need more exhaust and intake vents to help move the air/smoke.


The Gen 1 units don't, at least my MES 30 doesn't.


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## cmayna (Feb 3, 2016)

daRicksta said:


> The Gen 1 units don't, at least my MES 30 doesn't.


In your Gen 1,  how do you set your chip loader and chip tray?  1-2" out?


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## daricksta (Feb 3, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> I did post, in some other threads, my mod to take care of that. I replace the chip loader with a duct elbow that has a tin can attached to it. In the end of the tin can, I drilled five holes that are larger in diameter than the three holes in the chip loader. This provides several times the amount of air that can make its way through the chip loader holes. I've shown this pic before, but here it is again. The crinkled end goes into the chip loader hole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, John. I'm really not on SMF all that much so I miss a lot of posts. So, you're saying that this mod didn't solve the problem?

It would really bother me to buy a smoker for which I had to go out and spend extra money and time manufacturing mods to solve its inherent problems. Maybe I just lucked out with my little MES 30 since it does exactly what I want and need it to do without any mods. From what I've read the newer units are hit-and-miss in quality and performance. I know that Bear loves his MES 40 BT 2.5, though.


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## daricksta (Feb 3, 2016)

cmayna said:


> In your Gen 1,  how do you set your chip loader and chip tray?  1-2" out?


I leave the chip tray in; don't even touch it. With the chip loader I have usually left it 1-2" out but then I've smoked with it in for a while now with it fully closed with no problems so I don't touch that either. My MES 30 has been problem free except for my occasional user errors.


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## cmayna (Feb 3, 2016)

BTW johnmeyer,

If you're smoking in the near future and need a taste tester and 2nd opinion,,,,,,,,,road trip!  I'll bring some Salmon I just smoked in my MES40 this past weekend.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 3, 2016)

cmayna said:


> BTW johnmeyer,
> 
> If you're smoking in the near future and need a taste tester and 2nd opinion,,,,,,,,,road trip!  I'll bring some Salmon I just smoked in my MES40 this past weekend.


Well, it's only 1:45 from your place to here (I used to work at a Menlo Park VC on Sand Hill and had an apartment opposite the shopping center. I timed the trip every week when I went up on Monday and came home on Friday. Also, my two kids went to the big school near you, and I timed all those trips).

I'm going to give the inside a good cleaning and see if I can remove what I think is a creosote buildup. I read about 100 posts this morning about the pros and cons of cleaning the walls on an MES, with most people saying that it is _not _needed. However, I have a LOT of shiny buildup which seems pretty thick for a smoker that has only done about 25-30 smokes in its three month existence, and that "varnish" doesn't have the pleasant smell of a northern Wisconsin fishing lodge (a smell I remember from my 1950s childhood).

I put water and vinegar in a tray and have it heating for two hours at 275 after which I'll use alcohol, a BBQ spray-on cleaner and lots of rags to get as much of the top shiny layer off as I can. I'll do that while it is still pretty warm. I'll the heat it up again -- dry this time (no water or vinegar) -- to remove the moisture and re-season it.

I'll then try a few more smokes, using only the AMNPS for the smoke source.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 3, 2016)

Quote:


daRicksta said:


> Thanks, John. I'm really not on SMF all that much so I miss a lot of posts. So, you're saying that this mod didn't solve the problem?


The mod provides extra air for the AMNPS. I've not had any problems with it going out since I added that, and it seems doesn't seem to "thin out" the smoke too much, although without a window I really can't make that statement with 100% certainty.


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## ferggie (Feb 3, 2016)

Are you covering the drip pan with foil? If so did you poke a hole where the drain is so air can flow into the smoker?


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## johnmeyer (Feb 3, 2016)

ferggie said:


> Are you covering the drip pan with foil? If so did you poke a hole where the drain is so air can flow into the smoker?


It is covered with foil, and there is a hole in the foil so the grease can drain out, although I usually put a pan under the big piece of meat to catch the juices, so the pan hasn't gotten very dirty.

I don't know how much the air from that hole contributes to the air flow through the smoker, compared to the three holes in the chip loader. Interesting question.

I just finished cleaning the inside and while it doesn't look a whole lot different, I think I got the worst of the top layer off, especially on the door which had several times the build-up and which seemed to have stuff that didn't smell too nice. Also, it came off almost completely, whereas the black "varnish" on the interior was quite thin, and didn't want to come off.

And speaking of smell, I always leave the door open for several hours after a smoke to let it dry out from the moisture coming from the meat, and then I heat it up for about 30 minutes, and then let it dry out again. Even in a relatively dry climate like ours (central CA), this "dorm room refrigerator" smoker cabinet is going to mildew just like it would if it WAS a refrigerator and you kept the door closed for several weeks and left it at room temperature.

As a result,  don't have any mildew.


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## mummel (Feb 4, 2016)

Someone mentioned a candle test in another thread.  How long does the candle need to burn for?


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## johnmeyer (Feb 4, 2016)

mummel said:


> Someone mentioned a candle test in another thread.  How long does the candle need to burn for?


That question is probably better asked in that other thread where the OP was having a tough time keeping the AMNPS lit. However, since you asked it, and since the idea is to test if there is sufficient oxygen to keep the AMNPS lit, and since the picture in that other thread showed about two hours of burning before it went out, I'd say the answer is: at least two hours, but preferably three or four.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 4, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Quote:
> 
> The mod provides extra air for the AMNPS. I've not had any problems with it going out since I added that, and it seems doesn't seem to "thin out" the smoke too much, although without a window I really can't make that statement with 100% certainty.


Hi John,
I've just read all the posts on this thread, and I was going to ask you how thick the smoke in your MES looks through your window, until you said you don't have a window in yours.

This is but one of the reasons I like the window in mine, and would never buy an electric smoker without a window, now that I've been spoiled by my last two MES Smokers.

So without a window, can you tell me how thick the smoke is when you open your door:

#1   So Thick that you can't see anything inside for a couple seconds?

#2   Cloudy, but not that thick?

#3   Barely Smoky?

If the answer is #1, that's too heavy a smoke. You need to find a way to produce less smoke or to get more smoke to leave your smoker more quickly.

If your answer is #2 or #3, try not using any smoke at all, because there shouldn't be any over-smoked or creosote flavor with that amount of smoke.

Bear


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## daricksta (Feb 4, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Quote:
> 
> The mod provides extra air for the AMNPS. I've not had any problems with it going out since I added that, and it seems doesn't seem to "thin out" the smoke too much, although without a window I really can't make that statement with 100% certainty.


A number of guys like that mod. For cold smokes, I'm going to try out Bear's advice to use Dust instead of pellets.

The true test of whether the smoke has been thinned out or not is in the taste. A number of guys complain the AMNPS doesn't produce enough smoke for their tastes but I think they prefer "in your face" smoke. From my personal experience the AMNPS produces the right amount of smoke. I've repeatedly said that smoke should enhance, not overpower, the taste of food.


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## night fish (Feb 4, 2016)

I don't know much about MES smokers but I do know this:

I bought a 2-door 38" propane Smoke Hollow with a window on the door and started smoking meat less than a year ago. I took it out of the box, seasoned it, did the water boil test on the thermometer, read a lot about meat smoking on this forum, bought Jeff's book and rub recipes, bought a Maverick 733, and then went to work smoking outstanding meals on about a weekly basis. I love the thing. It's currently my favorite toy by far. I haven't done a single mod and the thermometer on the door is accurate within 5 degrees. I have some favorite go-to smokes but also really enjoy experimenting with all sorts of different recipes and haven't had a failure yet. I consider myself an absolute rookie and have already become famous among my friends, family and neighbors for producing great smoked food. The hobby of smoking meat for me is both fun and rewarding and I feel like I really owe it all to this forum and the extremely user friendly Smoke Hollow. 

I'm not trying to brag, just point out that success can quickly be achieved without much prior skill or knowledge. My unsolicited advice is to try a propane smoker if your MES isn't working out for you. I think you'll be happy that you didn't give up when you hit your full stride and start consistently and confidently pumping out smoked nirvana. Get rid of the MES if it's frustrating you, but stay in the game. You won't be sorry.


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## daricksta (Feb 4, 2016)

Bearcarver said:


> Hi John,
> I've just read all the posts on this thread, and I was going to ask you how thick the smoke in your MES looks through your window, until you said you don't have a window in yours.
> 
> This is but one of the reasons I like the window in mine, and would never buy an electric smoker without a window, now that I've been spoiled by my last two MES Smokers.
> ...


The smoke inside my MES 30 conforms to #1. When I open the door  I've got to step back for about 15-20 seconds to let it dissipate so my eyes don't burn and tear up  so I can see the food. But at the same time I either have heavy or TBS rising from the top vent, depending on where I am in the smoke. So, what I'm saying is that even though the AMNPS is producing a lot of smoke, enough of it escapes out of the MES so that food is not oversmoked.


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## daricksta (Feb 4, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> It is covered with foil, and there is a hole in the foil so the grease can drain out, although I usually put a pan under the big piece of meat to catch the juices, so the pan hasn't gotten very dirty.
> 
> I don't know how much the air from that hole contributes to the air flow through the smoker, compared to the three holes in the chip loader. Interesting question.
> 
> ...


I live in the Seattle area and store my MES under its cover in my un-insulated garage. While white mildew will grow inside my Weber charcoal kettle grill over the winter (charcoal briquettes grow green mold) I've never had any mold or mildew problems with my MES in the almost 4 years I've owned it. After or before smoking I wipe down selected interior surfaces with a damp paper towel. I never use vinegar or any cleaning chemical inside the smoker I wash all removable parts like smoking racks and drip/grease trays with soap and water. I take them out to the smoker, reinsert them, and leave the smoker door open to let them completely dry. If on TV you watch pro BBQers in competition or if you see segments on BBQ restaurants all the smokers are black and grimy on the inside. If food inspectors are OK with the insides of smokers looking like that then mine is fine as well. I think it's important to clean any surface food touches. But again, I wipe it down. The interior cooking heat will kill any nasties on the walls during the cooking process unless you're cold smoking.

I make sure both sensors on the back walls are wiped clean. I also clean the ceiling to remove deposits that can fall on the food below, and I clean the creosote and other buildup from the inside of the top vent. You might be surprised over how much buildup there is inside that thing.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 4, 2016)

Bearcarver said:


> Hi John,
> I've just read all the posts on this thread, and I was going to ask you how thick the smoke in your MES looks through your window, until you said you don't have a window in yours.
> 
> This is but one of the reasons I like the window in mine, and would never buy an electric smoker without a window, now that I've been spoiled by my last two MES Smokers.
> ...


Can I answer "yes" to all three questions? I've had all three experiences, although never #1 when using the AMNPS as the smoke source. Most of the time, the answer is #2 and, sometimes, #3.

The thick smoke (#1) happens when I sometimes have had to open the door not long after adding chips (when I'm _not _using the AMNPS). As you know, the MES method for heating chips tends to produce smoke in bursts, with the smoke intensifying during the heating cycle, and then diminishing (although not disappearing altogether) during the time the electric element is off.

Question back to you: do you ever use the MES chip tray, or do you _always _use the AMNPS as the sole source of smoke? If you do sometimes still use the MES chip tray, on what smokes do you use it?

Based on all the feedback I've gotten, and now that I've scrubbed off most of the heavy gunk (creosote??), and then let it run at top temperature for several hours until no residual smoke came out of the vent, I'm going to try a few more basic smokes before I give up, starting with tri-tip and then chicken. I still have some Costco almonds, and may do a small load of almonds after that, since they seems to provide the best test of smoke bitterness and numbing. I've been doing those using the MES chip tray with standard hickory chips. This time I'll do it with the AMNPS.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 4, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Can I answer "yes" to all three questions? I've had all three experiences, although never #1 when using the AMNPS as the smoke source. Most of the time, the answer is #2 and, sometimes, #3.
> 
> The thick smoke (#1) happens when I sometimes have had to open the door not long after adding chips (when I'm _not _using the AMNPS). As you know, the MES method for heating chips tends to produce smoke in bursts, with the smoke intensifying during the heating cycle, and then diminishing (although not disappearing altogether) during the time the electric element is off.
> 
> ...


I have not used my Chip burner since Todd invented the AMNPS, and I have never had Creosote flavor since I stopped having the vicious "No smoke, to light smoke, to heavy smoke, to too much smoke" cycle you speak of by using the chip burner. STOP using chips or chunks in your MES chip burner!!!

If you are getting too much smoke flavor with the AMNPS, it would have to be because you're using Mesquite pellets, or you're lighting more than one end, or for some reason the smoke is not leaving your smoker like it should.

Bear


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## johnmeyer (Feb 4, 2016)

I totally agree: I'd rather eat food thinking, "I wish there was a little more smoke" than eat food where I wished I could somehow remove some smoke. The former is still really tasty, but it is almost impossible to make over-smoked food taste good because smoke seems to trump almost every other spice or flavor, so you can't counteract it or cover it up.


> My unsolicited advice is to try a propane smoker if your MES isn't working out for you.


If I do sell the MES, I'll be looking at all other alternatives, so I appreciate that recommendation.


> I make sure both sensors on the back walls are wiped clean. I also clean the ceiling to remove deposits that can fall on the food below, and I clean the creosote and other buildup from the inside of the top vent. You might be surprised over how much buildup there is inside that thing.


Yes, that vent interfaces to the outside, and on especially on cold days, the condensation, and subsequent buildup in that area is unbelievable. Even after just one smoke, the vent often gets stuck after it cools down and the smoke particles cool.

I did find as I was cleaning yesterday that isopropyl alcohol does an amazing job at cleaning the stainless steel vent. While it doesn't cut through the black on the rack holders or the sensor, because those are baked on, it almost instantly dissolves the gunk near that cooler section in and around the vent because it hasn't been baked on.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 4, 2016)

Bearcarver said:


> I have not used my Chip burner since Todd invented the AMNPS, and I have never had Creosote flavor since I stopped having the vicious "No smoke, to light smoke, to heavy smoke, to too much smoke" cycle you speak of by using the chip burner. STOP using chips or chunks in your MES chip burner!!!
> 
> If you are getting too much smoke flavor with the AMNPS, it would have to be because you're using Mesquite pellets, or you're lighting more than one end, or for some reason the smoke is not leaving your smoker like it should.
> 
> Bear


Bear,

Thank you, thank you, thank you. That is really helpful advice, coming from someone with infinitely more experience at this than I have, or will ever have.

So, message received. I'll save the remaining wood chips for the smoke box in my Weber Genesis BBQ, and now only use the AMNPS as my smoke source, either with Todd's chips or his sawdust.


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## cmayna (Feb 4, 2016)

If you are cold smoking cheese or butter, use Todd's dust.  Otherwise I'd use his pellets, though I did not know about Mesquite pellets giving off too much smoke until Bear brought it to our attention.

Then again, since I don't smoke with Mesquite........


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## dr k (Feb 4, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Bear,
> 
> Thank you, thank you, thank you. That is really helpful advice, coming from someone with infinitely more experience at this than I have, or will ever have.
> 
> So, message received. I'll save the remaining wood chips for the smoke box in my Weber Genesis BBQ, and now only use the AMNPS as my smoke source, either with Todd's chips or his sawdust.


You can fill the rows of the AMNPS as you feel is right. Just not to the top.  A quarter of an inch from the top is standard. As long as it's at least half full.  Hopefully you'll start a new thread on how I almost sold my Mes. 
-Kurt


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## mummel (Feb 4, 2016)

It would help if you could record a video of your smoker output.


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## daricksta (Feb 4, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> I totally agree: I'd rather eat food thinking, "I wish there was a little more smoke" than eat food where I wished I could somehow remove some smoke. The former is still really tasty, but it is almost impossible to make over-smoked food taste good because smoke seems to trump almost every other spice or flavor, so you can't counteract it or cover it up.
> 
> If I do sell the MES, I'll be looking at all other alternatives, so I appreciate that recommendation.
> 
> ...


By the way, I don't claim the MES is the best smoker out there. I contend that it's the best smoker at its price points. A well-constructed made in USA smoker costs several hundreds of dollars and way up. For $190 (could've been lower) I got a great smoker that does exactly what I need it to do and it's easy to use. If I were a rich man I might look at more expensive smokers.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 5, 2016)

Since I restore video, film, slides, 78 rpm records -- and all other forms of media -- for a living, I can definitely take some video of the smoke and post it. I actually may have some from a video I created, but never posted, showing my method for lighting the AMNPS using only the heat gun. The process not only lights the pellets, but the process of using that much hot air also does a great job of preheating all the nearby pellets. The thing is ready to go in no time.

As for the other questions, I don't think I've ever gotten excessive smoke with the AMNPS using pellets. I've only used the sawdust once, and the smoke from that was extremely light.

Finally, I don't think I will ever cold-smoke in this again, unless I do the mailbox mod. Looking back on everything I've done over the past 3-4 months, the worst tasting smoke happened when trying to put smoke through a cold cabinet. So, what I'm going to do the next time I want to cold smoke is to use my Weber BBQ, using the "trick" I posted in my thread about using the AMNPS, placed in the drip tray of my Weber Genesis gas grill. I originally did this to smoke a rotisserie chicken, but it should work even with the grill turned off. I'll probably need to light both ends of the AMNPS because the Weber isn't really set up to contain smoke.


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## mummel (Feb 5, 2016)

I used regular hand sanitizer but it barely was lit.  There was a TINY blue flame.  Is that enough?


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## daveomak (Feb 5, 2016)

mummel said:


> I used regular hand sanitizer but it barely was lit.  There was a TINY blue flame.  Is that enough?


Use the sanitizer that is very high in alcohol...   or use fire starter gel, the high temp one....  

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6xg62erms6_b


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## Bearcarver (Feb 5, 2016)

cmayna said:


> If you are cold smoking cheese or butter, use Todd's dust.  Otherwise I'd use his pellets, though I did not know about Mesquite pellets giving off too much smoke until Bear brought it to our attention.
> 
> Then again, since I don't smoke with Mesquite........


I didn't say too much "Smoke" from Mesquite.

I said too much "Smoke Flavor", which is true for most people, as is my favorite Hickory for many people.

And I prefer using Dust in my AMNS for anything I smoke with temps under 220° smoker temp, and Pellets in my AMNPS when using Smoker temps above 220°.

Bear


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## cmayna (Feb 5, 2016)

Sorry, I sit corrected. [emoji]128526[/emoji]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## johnmeyer (Feb 5, 2016)

Bearcarver said:


> And I prefer using Dust in my AMNS for anything I smoke with temps under 220° smoker temp, and Pellets in my AMNPS when using Smoker temps above 220°.
> 
> Bear


Any reason for not using pellets for low-temp smokes?


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## cmayna (Feb 5, 2016)

The dust puts off a cooler smoke as compared to the pellets.  This becomes more and more important if your AMNPS is pretty close to the product you are smoking.    So yes for cold smoking I try to use dust.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 5, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Any reason for not using pellets for low-temp smokes?


Like Craig said---Dust runs a bit cooler, but it also starts easier & keeps going easier, and I still have a bunch of Dust leftover from 6 years ago, from before there even was an AMNPS for pellets.  I also have some Cherry Dust I saved from my Sliding Compound Miter Saw.

I use my old AMNS when I burn Dust.

Bear


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## cmayna (Feb 5, 2016)

Bear,

You just reminded me about the old AMNS back in the good ole dust days.   I forgot to mention that I use my old cage when I use dust. I've never used dust in either of my AMNPS's, but rumor has it that the dust works just fine.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 5, 2016)

cmayna said:


> Bear,
> 
> You just reminded me about the old AMNS back in the good ole dust days.   I forgot to mention that I use my old cage when I use dust. I've never used dust in either of my AMNPS's, but rumor has it that the dust works just fine.


The two times I've used dust, it works fine, although quite a bit initially falls out the bottom, until a little bit of a "mat" forms to keep the rest of the dust from falling through. I just put a tray underneath when filling it, and then pour the excess back into the bag.

OK, so "burns cooler" is the reason for using it for cold smokes. I would imagine it makes zero difference once the smoker is into the 140-160 degree range.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 5, 2016)

cmayna said:


> Bear,
> 
> You just reminded me about the old AMNS back in the good ole dust days.   I forgot to mention that I use my old cage when I use dust. I've never used dust in either of my AMNPS's, but rumor has it that the dust works just fine.


Yup----That's what they say, but I have never put Dust in my AMNPS either.

So When I tell people Dust works in an AMNPS, I usually tell them I'm going by Hearsay.

Bear


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## pc farmer (Feb 5, 2016)

Dust works in the AMNPS for sure.   I do it from time to time but usually use the  dust tray.


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## daricksta (Feb 5, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Since I restore video, film, slides, 78 rpm records -- and all other forms of media -- for a living, I can definitely take some video of the smoke and post it. I actually may have some from a video I created, but never posted, showing my method for lighting the AMNPS using only the heat gun. The process not only lights the pellets, but the process of using that much hot air also does a great job of preheating all the nearby pellets. The thing is ready to go in no time.
> 
> As for the other questions, I don't think I've ever gotten excessive smoke with the AMNPS using pellets. I've only used the sawdust once, and the smoke from that was extremely light.
> 
> Finally, I don't think I will ever cold-smoke in this again, unless I do the mailbox mod. Looking back on everything I've done over the past 3-4 months, the worst tasting smoke happened when trying to put smoke through a cold cabinet. So, what I'm going to do the next time I want to cold smoke is to use my Weber BBQ, using the "trick" I posted in my thread about using the AMNPS, placed in the drip tray of my Weber Genesis gas grill. I originally did this to smoke a rotisserie chicken, but it should work even with the grill turned off. I'll probably need to light both ends of the AMNPS because the Weber isn't really set up to contain smoke.


You're a heavy-duty tech guy. You must be good if you're making a living off it.

I hate cold smoking. Can't stand it. But the cheese comes out tasting so good when I get it right that I have to keep doing it but no more than once or twice during the year.

I heat up my MES 30 to the set point or a little beyond either before or after I light the AMNPS. That way they're both ready to go in about 20-30 minutes. I never place a lit AMNPS inside a cold smoker.


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## daricksta (Feb 5, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> I totally agree: I'd rather eat food thinking, "I wish there was a little more smoke" than eat food where I wished I could somehow remove some smoke. The former is still really tasty, but it is almost impossible to make over-smoked food taste good because smoke seems to trump almost every other spice or flavor, so you can't counteract it or cover it up.
> 
> If I do sell the MES, I'll be looking at all other alternatives, so I appreciate that recommendation.
> 
> ...


Wonder how well isopropyl alcohol works on baked-in gunk inside the top vent that's built up over 4 years due to ignorance? I'll have to try it when I wheel my smoker out in the Spring.


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## daricksta (Feb 5, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> Can I answer "yes" to all three questions? I've had all three experiences, although never #1 when using the AMNPS as the smoke source. Most of the time, the answer is #2 and, sometimes, #3.
> 
> The thick smoke (#1) happens when I sometimes have had to open the door not long after adding chips (when I'm _not _using the AMNPS). As you know, the MES method for heating chips tends to produce smoke in bursts, with the smoke intensifying during the heating cycle, and then diminishing (although not disappearing altogether) during the time the electric element is off.
> 
> ...


I cooked a tri-tip roast Santa Maria CA-style over mesquite wood pellets in my MES. It was incredible. It continues to amaze me: the high quality, deelish Q that emerges from that little electric smoker.


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## johnmeyer (Feb 5, 2016)

daRicksta said:


> I cooked a tri-tip roast Santa Maria CA-style over mesquite wood pellets in my MES. It was incredible. It continues to amaze me: the high quality, deelish Q that emerges from that little electric smoker.


You posts are definitely encouraging me to keep this. No matter what, based on all the feedback I've gotten, I'm going to keep trying for awhile.


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## daricksta (Feb 6, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> You posts are definitely encouraging me to keep this. No matter what, based on all the feedback I've gotten, I'm going to keep trying for awhile.


Thanks. How old is yours again? If at the end of it all you're still not happy it would make sense to put it up for sale and buy something else. However, for a decent electric smoker that you might be happier with you'll pay a lot more. Check the prices for Smokin-It and Cookshack smokers. S-I are Chinese made but CS are made here. With those you might be able to find a great deal on a scratch-and-dent model. But my MES 30 has been just what I wanted for me.


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## smokeymose (Feb 6, 2016)

Give propane a try....


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## johnmeyer (Feb 6, 2016)

It's a little over three months old. It was a gift to me. I would not mind paying a little more (or a lot more) to get something I'd be happier with. However, as I've said, I'm going to try a few more things with this before I send it over to Craigslist.


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## old sarge (Feb 6, 2016)

johnmeyer - Taking your time is the wise thing to do.  A new smoker is going to cost more money and if you can to the point where your current smoker starts behaving itself and doing what it was built to do without having to outfit it with every gadget known to man you are good to go. Nothing wrong with an extra smoke generator like the AMNPS; they generate little heat which makes them ideal for a lot of low temp smokes. Call it a sometimes needed accessory. Good luck - Dave


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## cmayna (Feb 7, 2016)

SmokeyMose said:


> Give propane a try....


If you have room for just one smoker and if you want to smoke low temp items such as fish and high temp stuff like poultry, I'd stay with what you have.   I would only go propane if you do not smoke fish.  That being said, I have a gasser which is dedicated for beef, poultry, pork for I don't want those smells on my Salmon.  The gasser is used as my cold smoker for butter and cheese with the gas not connected.


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## mark4mn (Feb 7, 2016)

I bought a Chargriller Outlaw many years ago and did mod after mod and at the end of the day, it did not help all that much.  It could be very frustrating at times. So when I decided to get an electric smoker, I did a lot of research. The Cookshack was more than I wanted to spend. I ended up getting a Spoken-it #2 and NEVER looked back. No mods required! The only add on I bought was the cold smoking plate because it was on sale. I cold smoke salt, cheese, fish, homemade sausages, and so on. I have had it for 5 years and have genuinely tried to wear it out but to no avail.

If you can, consider the Cookshack, Smoking Tex, or my favorite, the Smoking-it #2.

Mark


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## Bearcarver (Feb 7, 2016)

Mark4mn said:


> I bought a Chargriller Outlaw many years ago and did mod after mod and at the end of the day, it did not help all that much.  It could be very frustrating at times. So when I decided to get an electric smoker, I did a lot of research. The Cookshack was more than I wanted to spend. I ended up getting a Spoken-it #2 and NEVER looked back. No mods required! The only add on I bought was the cold smoking plate because it was on sale. I cold smoke salt, cheese, fish, homemade sausages, and so on. I have had it for 5 years and have genuinely tried to wear it out but to no avail.
> 
> If you can, consider the Cookshack, Smoking Tex, or my favorite, the Smoking-it #2.
> 
> Mark


Exact same results I got from my MES. No Mods needed, perfect for 6 years.

Bear


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## johnmeyer (Feb 7, 2016)

mummel said:


> It would help if you could record a video of your smoker output.


See if you think this looks OK:


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## Bearcarver (Feb 7, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> See if you think this looks OK:



It's actually hard to say by what you see coming from the top vent, but it looks Great from here!!!

Bear


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## mummel (Feb 8, 2016)

daRicksta said:


> Wonder how well isopropyl alcohol works on baked-in gunk inside the top vent that's built up over 4 years due to ignorance? I'll have to try it when I wheel my smoker out in the Spring.



I have same same issue after one summer. I'm going to try the weber degreaser.


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## hillbillyrkstr (Feb 8, 2016)

Mailbox mod is cheap, easy, and it works.


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## hoity toit (Feb 8, 2016)

cmayna said:


> I've always wondered if the MES units need more exhaust and intake vents to help move the air/smoke.


I enlarged the exhaust and put the mailbox mod on mine with 3-1/2" duct. Draws air flow perfect.

HT


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## Bearcarver (Feb 8, 2016)

cmayna said:


> I've always wondered if the MES units need more exhaust and intake vents to help move the air/smoke.


Maybe some do, but I've regularly used the MES 30 Gen #1, MES 40 Gen #1, and the MES 40 Gen #2.5, and have never needed any intake, exhaust, or mailbox mods.

Bear


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## dr k (Feb 8, 2016)

daRicksta said:


> Wonder how well isopropyl alcohol works on baked-in gunk inside the top vent that's built up over 4 years due to ignorance? I'll have to try it when I wheel my smoker out in the Spring.


I had an Ionic Breeze air cleaner from Sharper Image that had stainless steel blades that attract dust, oily candle creosote/soot etc.  That gunk would only come off when sprayed with cooking spray.  Spray some on a paper towel and see what happens or olive oil etc.  It usually takes oil to remove it like bug and tar remover for cars.  Then the alcohol will remove any oil residue.

-Kurt


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## daricksta (Feb 8, 2016)

mummel said:


> I have same same issue after one summer. I'm going to try the weber degreaser.


My wife bought me a barbecue grill cleaner that works great with my Weber kettle grill. I could also try that on the inside of the top vent. I'll also look into trying cooking oil on a paper towel like Kurt recommends.


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## daricksta (Feb 8, 2016)

Dr K said:


> I had an Ionic Breeze air cleaner from Sharper Image that had stainless steel blades that attract dust, oily candle creosote/soot etc.  That gunk would only come off when sprayed with cooking spray.  Spray some on a paper towel and see what happens or olive oil etc.  It usually takes oil to remove it like bug and tar remover for cars.  Then the alcohol will remove any oil residue.
> 
> -Kurt


I can try that. Maybe do a test including cooking oil and some type of liquid degreaser product and see which works best along with the alcohol.


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## cmayna (Feb 8, 2016)

How would a AMNTS work in a MES unit as compared to the AMNPS ?


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## johnmeyer (Feb 8, 2016)

cmayna said:


> How would a AMNTS work in a MES unit as compared to the AMNPS ?


I'm not sure this is the right thread to ask that question because it is pretty OT. You might get more answers if you started a new thread, or asked it in a thread that was primarily concerned with the various A-Maze-N products.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 8, 2016)

cmayna said:


> How would a AMNTS work in a MES unit as compared to the AMNPS ?


Depends on how good the air flow is in the particular MES.

The AMNPS works Great in mine, but the Tube puts out too much smoke for my MES, and I have trouble cutting it down.

So IMO if you have trouble keeping the AMNPS going in your MES, then the Tube should be good for you, but if you don't have trouble with the AMNPS, then the Tube puts out too much smoke for your small MES box.

Bear


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## smokesontuesday (Feb 11, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> See if you think this looks OK:



That looks just about perfect honestly.


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## daricksta (Feb 11, 2016)

johnmeyer said:


> See if you think this looks OK:



We have the same MES 30. The smoke is just the way it looks with mine. And my MES 30 produces great Q--with my help, of course.


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