# Smoker mod using mailbox mod and tubing



## lovethemeats (Mar 3, 2017)

Ok so this is my question. 
I have seen many mods here using lots of tubing to clean the smoke. I came across one a couple days ago and they had about 4-5 tubes all connected then to the smoker. The tubes were mounted vertical. Does the smoke travel thru natural with no added fan? It seems that it would want to back feed without the help of a fan to draw the smoke back down to the next tube. Just curious on this. My mod just has the flex tube from box to smoker.


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## cmayna (Mar 3, 2017)

Without the help of a fan, I don't see how smoke would travel up and down.  Mine is a  rigid aluminum  duct at a slight horizontal angle upward to the smoker.


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## mr t 59874 (Mar 3, 2017)

lovethemeats said:


> Ok so this is my question.
> I have seen many mods here using lots of tubing to clean the smoke. I came across one a couple days ago and they had about 4-5 tubes all connected then to the smoker. The tubes were mounted vertical. Does the smoke travel thru natural with no added fan? It seems that it would want to back feed without the help of a fan to draw the smoke back down to the next tube. Just curious on this. My mod just has the flex tube from box to smoker.


It will flow just fine once a draft is started. This is done by elevating exhaust from the product chamber above the firebox and applying heat to the product chamber until a draft is started, it doesn’t take much.  The larger the difference, the more draft.

For an easier start up, lay your pipe horizontally with a slight incline from one to another. You can attach the pipe to a ladder or lattice.

T


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## lovethemeats (Mar 3, 2017)

Ok. I understand.  
I run a MES30 on a stand about 3 ft high. My fire box is a converted cold smoke box  from bradley that i use a AMNPS in it. 













20160523_134856.jpg



__ lovethemeats
__ Mar 3, 2017





As you can see in the pic. I have the room to have it behind it. I pulled out the chip tray on the Mes as I don't need it. So with the bigger openings. Flow should be no issue? I understand to fire up the heater to get the draft. Can i turn it off after to cold smoke and the draft will continue to push the smoke thru? The one other thing I didn't mention was I have a exhaust fan I use to remove the smoke out of the room it is in. I have a tube i insert into the exhaust port on my smoker and it sits about 2in from fan. So actually this also should help also. 
Thanks T for the help understanding this subject. 

Rob


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## mr t 59874 (Mar 3, 2017)

Thank you for the pictures. To answer your questions. Once the draft is started you will be able to turn the smoker off, with your setup as is, it may not be needed. Flow will be no issue, but heat may be. It looks as if the smoke exit from the firebox comes out the top, not good if you want to cool the smoke. An ideal cold smoker will allow you to cool your smoke to ambient temperature, therefore we want to dissipate as much heat as possible before the smoke reaches the product.

Consider a larger firebox with the smoke exit out the back. Many use a small mailbox, but as we want to use it as a heatsink the larger the mailbox the better it will dissipate heat.  Try this first, then if more piping is needed we can work on that.

T


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## lovethemeats (Mar 3, 2017)

Its not bad on heat output. I'm able to run cold in the winter months and for like cheese I have to actually turn on the heater to get the temps in the smoker up. Condensation happens more in the fire box and tube feeding to smoker. I will look into changing the fire box. So the  port out is on the side of it.


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## mr t 59874 (Mar 3, 2017)

That's good Rob, that is where we want condensation, it is a good indication that it is working in our favor. Let's make one change at a time so we can see the effects each one makes.

Where are your smokers located, inside or out?

T


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## lovethemeats (Mar 3, 2017)

Outside.  I have a screened in room attached off the side of my garage.  Concrete floor. It has windows so rain and etc stays out. Great for what I'm doing.


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## mr t 59874 (Mar 3, 2017)

lovethemeats said:


> Outside. I have a screened in room attached off the side of my garage. Concrete floor. It has windows so rain and etc stays out. Great for what I'm doing.


Perfect, thanks. I take it all is in the shade.

T


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## johnmeyer (Mar 3, 2017)

> Ok so this is my question.
> 
> I have seen many mods here using lots of tubing to clean the smoke. I came across one a couple days ago and they had about 4-5 tubes all connected then to the smoker. The tubes were mounted vertical. Does the smoke travel thru natural with no added fan? It seems that it would want to back feed without the help of a fan to draw the smoke back down to the next tube. Just curious on this. My mod just has the flex tube from box to smoker.


If you have ever used a hose to siphon water, you know that, as long as the "exit end" of the hose is lower in elevation than the intake, once you get the siphon started, water will flow, even if you take a piece of hose in the middle and lift it up so that it is higher than either the intake or the outtake. The gravity on the downside of the intermediate up/down section exactly balances out the upside (less a little friction resistance). Therefore, the water keeps flowing.

The same, more or less, holds true for a column of smoke. Like the water siphon, you have to get it going. If you are doing a hot smoke, the heat in the smoke chamber will help start the flow. With a cold smoke, as I found out a week ago, you may need to give it a little help. I'm going to elevate the smoker next time I do a cold smoke in the hope that convection (heat rises) will suck the air up from the mod.

Finally, as I've posted several times, I wonder the same thing as you: does all that tubing in that amazing photo of the up/down/up/down 20+ feet of duct actually do much? It sure as heck is a brute force way to get a little more "stuff" to condense out of the smoke.

Here is what I've found: in my version of the mailbox mod (see photo):













Smoker Mod_04.jpg



__ johnmeyer
__ Feb 4, 2017






that second piece of conduit (the one that attaches to the smoker), has virtually no gunk on it, whereas the can is absolutely loaded with crud, as is the first five inches of the first conduit. I clean everything with my ultrasonic cleaner between smokes, so I can tell exactly what is going on each time, independent of what happened last time.

Having said all that, I certainly do not discount things posted by Mr. T., and I learned a lot from his posts about smoke quality. However, on this one specific issue -- which is the topic of this thread -- I have so far not confirmed that really long duct work is needed.

I have been instead experimenting with various types of metal mesh filter, inserted into the duct. My first attempt did collect a little bit of junk, but not enough to really alter anything. I am about to try a filter based on some stainless steel 3M Scotch-brite scrubbies. I'll post in my own thread if that turns out to be a good thing.

Many of the other things Mr. T. has recommended definitely do make a huge difference, including using sawdust instead of pellets; using an external box; and making sure that box stays cool.


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## mr t 59874 (Mar 3, 2017)

johnmeyer said:


> Finally, as I've posted several times, I wonder the same thing as you: does all that tubing in that amazing photo of the up/down/up/down 20+ feet of duct actually do much? It sure as heck is a brute force way to get a little more "stuff" to condense out of the smoke.
> 
> Having said all that, I certainly do not discount things posted by Mr. T., and I learned a lot from his posts about smoke quality. However, on this one specific issue -- which is the topic of this thread -- I have so far not confirmed that really long duct work is needed.
> 
> Many of the other things Mr. T. has recommended definitely do make a huge difference, including using sawdust instead of pellets; using an external box; and making sure that box stays cool.


The piping is used to do two things, clean and cool the smoke, the length of which is determined by the efficiency of the firebox and the temperature of the smoke entering the product chamber, not just the cleanliness. 

T


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## lovethemeats (Mar 3, 2017)

Yes. It stays in the shade. Its actually a room just attached to my garage. Bought house with it already in place.


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## johnmeyer (Mar 3, 2017)

Mr T 59874 said:


> The piping is used to do two things, clean and cool the smoke, the length of which is determined by the efficiency of the firebox and the temperature of the smoke entering the product chamber, not just the cleanliness.
> 
> T


I guess since I am using the AMNPS in my mod, that explains why I'm not seeing much happening in the duct because the AMNPS produces a really small amount of heat compared to almost any other combustible smoke source.


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## mr t 59874 (Mar 3, 2017)

lovethemeats said:


> Yes. It stays in the shade. Its actually a room just attached to my garage. Bought house with it already in place.


Perfect.


johnmeyer said:


> I guess since I am using the AMNPS in my mod, that explains why I'm not seeing much happening in the duct because the AMNPS produces a really small amount of heat compared to almost any other combustible smoke source.


Yes John, I agree and that can be controlled by adjusting vents and using different fuels.

T


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## lovethemeats (Apr 10, 2017)

So a while back I was in the site and raised the question of wanting to clean my smoke going to my MES30.   As luck would have it a fellow site member “Mr. T – Tom “responded. Recently he gave me some good info on cheese smoking so I was glad he responded. We then discussed upgrading to a more efficient cold smoke box.

I have a friend at work that is good building things so I was also talking to him about it, and he built a bigger box. The build took a couple weeks as it was at work and was being done as time allowed.

New Cold Smoke Box below – Painting to be done when it warms up outside.













Smoke box front.jpg



__ lovethemeats
__ Apr 10, 2017






I ran 4 tests total using the following fuel sources – Maple pellets whole – crushed maple pellets – maple sawdust and maple pellets ground down to a powder.

​         Maple Pellets - Whole













Whole Maple Pellets test ziploc.jpg



__ lovethemeats
__ Apr 10, 2017






Bag placed on 2[sup]nd[/sup] Shelf from the bottom of the smoker.

Smoke Time in unit = 12 ½ hrs.

Room Humidity Level = N/A – Weather was decent and no rain during the day.

Bag heavily smoked from whole pellets

Real tacky when touching                                                                                                                                      

Lots of residue left on the bag

Strong acidic smell and stings the nose when smelling.      


Maple Pellets - Crushed













Maple pellets crushed test ziploc.jpg



__ lovethemeats
__ Apr 10, 2017






Bag placed on 2[sup]nd[/sup] Shelf from the bottom in the smoker

Smoke Time in unit = 13hrs

Room humidity level = N/A – weather was decent and no rain.

Bag lighter not as dark as the whole pellets

Still tacky to the touch. Not that much difference from first

Residue left on bag better. Less of it

Not as strong acidic smell. More pleasant to the nose. Sweet tones from the smoke noticeable.  

Maple Pellets – Sawdust













redone1.jpg



__ lovethemeats
__ Apr 10, 2017






Bag placed on 2[sup]nd[/sup] shelf from the bottom in the smoker.

Smoke Time in unit = 24hrs. Sawdust burned for 23+hrs. Graph is only for 12hrs due to operator error

Room humidity level = N/A – was raining on/off during the test.

Bag really light, hardly tacky. Not a lot of residue was left on the bag.

Not a strong acidic smell, pleasant to the nose. Sweet tones noticeable from smoke

The sawdust test resulted in a close to a 24 hour burn. When I pulled the bag from the smoker after running for 12+ hrs. – it didn’t even look like it was touched with smoke. The white tag on the bag was still white. This stuff was burning really slow – to make the test fair – I ran the filled pellet tray out of fuel.

Maple Pellets – Powder













Maple pellets test Powder - ziploc.jpg



__ lovethemeats
__ Apr 10, 2017






Bag placed on 2[sup]nd[/sup] Shelf from the bottom.

 Smoke time in unit = 13 ½ hrs.

Room humidity level = N/A – was raining on/off during the test.

Bag really light – so much you can see the rack marks really good on the back side of the bag. White tag on bag hardly colored.

Bag hardly tacky at all.

A lot less smoke residue left on the bag.

Has a good sweet smoke smell on it and smells a lot like maple syrup. Does not sting the nose at all when smelling it.

These tests show how using different pellet mediums affect smoked foods.

*For doing cold smoking the best medium to use would be the powder – It had the least amount of creosote, heat and cooled down the fastest before entering the smoker.   It slowly incorporates the smoke flavor into the foods thus being able to go from a mild to a strong flavor over a more controlled period of time. *

This brings forth more thought into the smoking stage when planning what you are about to smoke. The possibilities of incorporating the different mediums in the pellet tray and the effects it will have in the end result can be astonishing to say the least. This new knowledge brings on more challenges in the making.

At this time I want to thank site member MR.T “Tom” for all his help in my quest to run a cooler cleaner smoke in my system. With his willingness to step forward and share his knowledge so that I to may gain more knowledge in the art of smoking has been truly appreciated. For now my training has not ended but is growing into something awesome to come. And I know that if I ever have a question that I can always hit up Tom to guide me through to find my answers.

Thank you,

Rob, MI


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## tallbm (Apr 10, 2017)

lovethemeats said:


> So a while back I was in the site and raised the question of wanting to clean my smoke going to my MES30.   As luck would have it a fellow site member “Mr. T – Tom “responded. Recently he gave me some good info on cheese smoking so I was glad he responded. We then discussed upgrading to a more efficient cold smoke box.
> 
> I have a friend at work that is good building things so I was also talking to him about it, and he built a bigger box. The build took a couple weeks as it was at work and was being done as time allowed.
> 
> ...


Wow Rob great and interesting info!

I have one cold smoked salmon under my belt and that is it for cold smoking.  I did notice that it needed to rest to let the smoke mellow out some though it wasn't bad at all.  I'm guessing that had I smoked with dust or powder vs pellets the need to "mellow" might not have existed.  No idea, just a guess.

Anyhow thanks for the testing and for posting the detailed results.  I'm storing this info away for the next time I cold smoke something and heck it still useful for all kinds of smoking I guess.  Less junk in the smoke the better the taste!


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## lovethemeats (Apr 10, 2017)

I used a fireboard for my temps. What a great unit. Did not add graphs with thread.


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## mr t 59874 (Apr 11, 2017)

Helping with your cold smoker was my pleasure.

Have fun with it,

T


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## Biggie357 (Oct 11, 2017)

lovethemeats said:


> So a while back I was in the site and raised the question of wanting to clean my smoke going to my MES30.   As luck would have it a fellow site member “Mr. T – Tom “responded. Recently he gave me some good info on cheese smoking so I was glad he responded. We then discussed upgrading to a more efficient cold smoke box.
> 
> I have a friend at work that is good building things so I was also talking to him about it, and he built a bigger box. The build took a couple weeks as it was at work and was being done as time allowed.
> 
> ...


How did you turn the pellets into powder? Thanks


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## johnmeyer (Oct 11, 2017)

I think he used a 2nd-hand blender that he bough for the purposes. He got a used one because the pellets can be really tough on a blender or food processor -- I broke mine trying to pulverize some regular wood chips.


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## GaryHibbert (Oct 12, 2017)

lovethemeats said:


> So a while back I was in the site and raised the question of wanting to clean my smoke going to my MES30.   As luck would have it a fellow site member “Mr. T – Tom “responded. Recently he gave me some good info on cheese smoking so I was glad he responded. We then discussed upgrading to a more efficient cold smoke box.
> 
> I have a friend at work that is good building things so I was also talking to him about it, and he built a bigger box. The build took a couple weeks as it was at work and was being done as time allowed.
> 
> ...



Great post Rob!!  Good comparison of the 4 types of fuel.
I'm also wondering how you powdered the pellets.
POINT
Gary


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## lovethemeats (Oct 13, 2017)

I use a small food processor on the pellets.  Don't know how it stays running. I beat the unit up. But it keeps pulverizing the pellets. First I crush them down as much as I can. Then feed it into the unit in small batches. I sift it thru a fine mesh screen and then just keep putting it back in till it is at a powder state.  The process it kind of long. But in the end I think its worth it. 
The burn rate for powder is super long. When I did my test. It ran 24hrs in my AMNPS.  The smoke produced is light. Great for doing cheese and such. I thought of using it for when I try doing bacon this winter. The other types also serve their purpose.  All have a beneficial effect to the burn rate/time. I was glad I took the time to do it. Biggest factor involved was my air intake. I had to increase the size to get a good draft and keep the AMNPS going.  Thanks for the point.


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## johnmeyer (Oct 13, 2017)

You can buy sawdust from Todd instead of the pellets. That way you don't have to do any grinding or sifting, and you get wood that hasn't had any binder added.

Having said that, I think someone did a test that indicated the sawdust didn't produce as good a result as the crushed pellets, but having not done that test myself, I continue to be somewhat skeptical. One thing for sure: converting the pellets to dust is not a small or trivial task.


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## lovethemeats (Oct 13, 2017)

johnmeyer said:


> You can buy sawdust from Todd instead of the pellets. That way you don't have to do any grinding or sifting, and you get wood that hasn't had any binder added.
> 
> Having said that, I think someone did a test that indicated the sawdust didn't produce as good a result as the crushed pellets, but having not done that test myself, I continue to be somewhat skeptical. One thing for sure: converting the pellets to dust is not a small or trivial task.



No its not a small task taking it down to dust. Thanks for the info on buying it.  That is great news for me John. Again.  Thank you.


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## Rings Я Us (Oct 13, 2017)

Lmao @ smokers in the house.

Haha.. The people with those 10 foot + pipe vents from smoke to smoker, all think it's more pure. It's like a person smoking a cigarette though if you ask me.. You can smell them if they stand and breath by you 5 minutes after they smoked the cigarette. ..  More show than go I would think. Trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Edit:  I would probably put a big  tube on my mailbox mod though, if a panel of tasters agreed it was better flavor after the long trip.  Seems like more junk to have to clean out though, negating  the benefits.


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## johnmeyer (Oct 13, 2017)

Rings Я Us said:


> Haha.. The people with those 10 foot + pipe vents from smoke to smoker, all think it's more pure. <snip>
> Edit:  I would probably put a big  tube on my mailbox mod though, if a panel of tasters agreed it was better flavor after the long trip.  Seems like more junk to have to clean out though, negating  the benefits.


I too have posted my skepticism about 20+ feet of pipe between the smoke source and the smoker. If it was such a good thing, you'd see it on competition builds. I found that with just two elbows between my mod and the smoker, I get a huge amount of smoke deposition inside the can and on the first elbow. I then have a filter stuffed in between the two elbows. After that filter, the second elbow doesn't have much gunk at all. As a result, I have not once been tempted to add more tubing.

[edit]Here is a pic of the "filter" I use:













Filter%20Before_zps9sgo9s5k.jpg



__ johnmeyer
__ Apr 2, 2017






and here is what it looks like after the smoke:













Filter%20After_zpsvbhnflav.jpg



__ johnmeyer
__ Apr 2, 2017


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## Rings Я Us (Oct 13, 2017)

Should be heavier particles clinging to that type of device yep. filter.


Those longer ducts are supposed to cause heavy wood byproducts to condense and stay in the ducting and allow lighter particles to travel out.  An angle or gradient journey is also supposedly going to cause heaviest  byproducts to be trapped..
Edit....
Need to use a hot fire for smoke and pipe that over to the smoker.


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## lovethemeats (Oct 14, 2017)

Here's something I got something going on. I'm doing a pork butt and I'm running a blend of whole and crushed pellets. The burn so far on my AMNPS is 12hrs 20min. And still couple hours still to go. You can see how much smoke is coming off it. The whole I have on the top. They are maple. I have crushed apple under it. Some sawdust is in the crushed. A little mod sometimes goes a long way. The AMNPS is sitting in my cold smoke box.


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## lovethemeats (Oct 14, 2017)

The tubing I use is for cooling the smoke. I too run smoke scrubbers. 
I want maximum cooling going into my MES when cold smoking. All that tubing works for me. Smoke coming in is not hot. Summer i run fan on it. Winter time it stays cold by itself. My unit sits in a room that gets above 100 during the day in the summer.  Ever try cold smoking then? Even packing ice in the unit helps. Add in more heat and ice melts fast. What don't work for some work for others.


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## chopsaw (Oct 14, 2017)

Are you referring to the duct work as tubing ? , or do you really have tubing for the smoke supply ?


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## Rings Я Us (Oct 14, 2017)

Look at my scrubber


Before ...lol


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## dr k (Oct 14, 2017)

Stairs work well for rising smoke with the mailbox mod and 8' alum. flex pipe  Patio umbrellas for shade.


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## Rings Я Us (Oct 15, 2017)

Dang! :p


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