# Propane snoker question



## delearyous (Aug 5, 2017)

I have a 24" camp chef vault. I have used it several times now. It works pretty good. It's really my first smoker. I haven't read every thread on here. My question is this, is it silly or common practice to use my propane to start charcoal and wood chunks then shut the propane off and let the charcoal do the work?


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## drunkenmeatfist (Aug 5, 2017)

Delearyous said:


> I have a 24" camp chef vault. I have used it several times now. It works pretty good. It's really my first smoker. I haven't read every thread on here. My question is this, is it silly or common practice to use my propane to start charcoal and wood chunks then shut the propane off and let the charcoal do the work?


I haven't heard of anyone doing it. I have the Smoke Vault 18 and have thought of putting a little charcoal in the wood tray. My smoker is really good on propane use so I wouldn't really worry about fuel consumption.


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## bbqwillie (Aug 5, 2017)

Your propane smoker wasn't built to burn charcoal or wood as a primary fuel. It was built to burn propane. If you want to burn wood/charcoal then get a smoker that is designed for that otherwise stick (no pun intended) to the fuel it was designed to burn. If you want more smoke get an A-Maze-N. If you're trying to get a "smoke ring" add some crushed up charcoal to the pellets. That'll introduce a little nitrogen into the CC. But don't expect a bodacious ring.


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## drunkenmeatfist (Aug 5, 2017)

Two times today I have seen people say that propane or electric smokers can't produce a smoke ring. I pulled some ribs off my gasser just a bit ago and they had a nice pink ring around them. It wasn't a dark red ring, but from what I have heard if you are just trying to get a good smoke ring your taste might suffer.


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## bbqwillie (Aug 5, 2017)

DrunkenMeatFist said:


> Two times today I have seen people say that propane or electric smokers can't produce a smoke ring. I pulled some ribs off my gasser just a bit ago and they had a nice pink ring around them. It wasn't a dark red ring, but from what I have heard if you are just trying to get a good smoke ring your taste might suffer.


To get the ring you need a few things: 1) Nitrogen, 2) Oxygen, 3) Heat, The Nitrogen comes from the wood and charcoal being burned, Oxygen from the air and Heat from the combustion of the wood or charcoal. Under the right conditions (Combustion) the Nitrogen combines with the Oxygen to form Nitric Oxide. The Nitric Oxide bonds with the myoglobin in the meat to form the ring. Gas/electric smokers produce no Nitrogen during the heating cycle. None! And cannot produce a "smoke ring". It's a chemistry thing. 

Now you can trick an electric/gas cooker into making a "ring" by burning wood or charcoal while you are cooking with your gas/electric oven (because that's what a gas/electric cooker is - an outdoor oven). The problem is that you can barely get enough Nitrogen with the amounts of wood or charcoal you can safely put in your gas/electric oven before you have a fire risk. The purpose is to make a nice meal not burn your house down. 

The more Nitrogen you can introduce the better your chance of getting a "smoke ring" that's why I suggested crushing up charcoal to mix with your pellets. Charcoal is very rich in Nitrogen, better than even wood. BTW the ring stops forming at 160 degrees surface temp, so anything you're doing after 160 is a waste.

But all that is just for show. The "ring" only adds a visual component to your BBQ. It doesn't enhance the taste one bit.


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## drunkenmeatfist (Aug 5, 2017)

BBQWillie said:


> To get the ring you need a few things: 1) Nitrogen, 2) Oxygen, 3) Heat, The Nitrogen comes from the wood and charcoal being burned, Oxygen from the air and Heat from the combustion of the wood or charcoal. Under the right conditions (Combustion) the Nitrogen combines with the Oxygen to form Nitric Oxide. The Nitric Oxide bonds with the myoglobin in the meat to form the ring. Gas/electric smokers produce no Nitrogen during the heating cycle. None! And cannot produce a "smoke ring". It's a chemistry thing.
> 
> Now you can trick an electric/gas cooker into making a "ring" by burning wood or charcoal while you are cooking with your gas/electric oven (because that's what a gas/electric cooker is - an outdoor oven). The problem is that you can barely get enough Nitrogen with the amounts of wood or charcoal you can safely put in your gas/electric oven before you have a fire risk. The purpose is to make a nice meal not burn your house down.
> 
> ...


I have never been concerned with getting a smoke ring, I only worry about the food tasting good. Maybe someday I can graduate from my outdoor over to an actual smoker.


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## bbqwillie (Aug 5, 2017)

DrunkenMeatFist said:


> I have never been concerned with getting a smoke ring, I only worry about the food tasting good. Maybe someday I can graduate from my outdoor over to an actual smoker.


There is nothing wrong with a outdoor oven. I have an 6.5 lb Butt cooking in one right now. The A-MAZE-N is humming away, the TBS is venting and the PID is reading a rock solid 230. Pulled pork tomorrow after a good nights sleep. What's not to love?


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## drunkenmeatfist (Aug 5, 2017)

BBQWillie said:


> There is nothing wrong with a outdoor oven. I have an 6.5 lb Butt cooking in one right now. The A-MAZE-N is humming away, the TBS is venting and the PID is reading a rock solid 230. Pulled pork tomorrow after a good nights sleep. What's not to love?


I thought I was smoking, but I guess I am baking. Should have saved the money just used my indoor oven.


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## bbqwillie (Aug 5, 2017)

DrunkenMeatFist said:


> I thought I was smoking, but I guess I am baking. Should have saved the money just used my indoor oven.


Don't run the A-MAZE-N indoors all the smoke alarms go off. Trust me on this one.


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## drunkenmeatfist (Aug 5, 2017)

BBQWillie said:


> Don't run the A-MAZE-N indoors all the smoke alarms go off. Trust me on this one.


I will save even more money and use liquid smoke.


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## tardissmoker (Aug 5, 2017)

DrunkenMeatFist said:


> I will save even more money and use liquid smoke.



Heresy! Heresy! Start the Inquisition!


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## bbqwillie (Aug 6, 2017)

DrunkenMeatFist said:


> I will save even more money and use liquid smoke.


They sell a nice smoked Tofu at the market. It slices well and is always tender (no smoke ring though. I guess you could use some pink food coloring).


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## K9BIGDOG (Aug 11, 2017)

I always get a smoke ring on my ribs done in the propane smoker.













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__ K9BIGDOG
__ Aug 11, 2017


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## phatbac (Aug 11, 2017)

here is the smoke ring i get off my stick burner 

some baby backs i did a few weeks ago













IMG_20170617_144706.jpg



__ phatbac
__ Jun 19, 2017






You can make great ribs without or very little smoke ring or make terrible ribs with a huge smoke ring

It is more of a visual component,.the flavor isn't affected by it 

Happy Smoking,

phatbac (Aaron)


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## bbqwillie (Aug 11, 2017)

Joe Guidice said:


> I always get a smoke ring on my ribs done in the propane smoker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you use wood or charcoal in the process. If you do it isn't the propane that is giving you the "ring". It's the wood and charcoal you use and the conditions inside the cooker that give you a ring. There are many variables that produce the ring. Temp, Humidity, Ph of the meat, wetness of the meat, amount of Nitrogen in the free air in the cooker..... it goes on and on. 

Clearly whatever you do is pretty darn good, as you are getting a  nice ring. So help everyone out and tell us what you do to get your ring in that propane rig. 

(disclaimer: The ring is aesthetic only and does nothing to improve or diminish taste of the BBQ)


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## Rings Я Us (Aug 11, 2017)

Propane smoker, hot flame, no wood


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## bbqwillie (Aug 11, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> Propane smoker, hot flame, no wood <20 ppm. Exhaust (NO)
> 
> Electric smoker with wood lumps <2 ppm
> Propane grill, no wood <2 ppm
> ...


Frankly I don't give a darn about ring. I'm looking for taste and texture of the meat. It doesn't matter what meat. It can be chicken, pork, beef, Emu. I don't care. I want the meat to taste good, bite through easy, and be pleasant on the pallet. If it has a ring, great, If it doesn't, who cares? 

I was just curious how he was getting a ring in  a propane smoker. Clearly he has a Technic that produces a ring in a propane smoker (evidenced by his pictures) and I'd like to know what it is. I want to look at the science behind the evidence. I'm curious that way.


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## Rings Я Us (Aug 11, 2017)

That's in the link .


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## K9BIGDOG (Aug 14, 2017)

BBQWillie said:


> Do you use wood or charcoal in the process. If you do it isn't the propane that is giving you the "ring". It's the wood and charcoal you use and the conditions inside the cooker that give you a ring. There are many variables that produce the ring. Temp, Humidity, Ph of the meat, wetness of the meat, amount of Nitrogen in the free air in the cooker..... it goes on and on.
> 
> Clearly whatever you do is pretty darn good, as you are getting a  nice ring. So help everyone out and tell us what you do to get your ring in that propane rig.
> 
> (disclaimer: The ring is aesthetic only and does nothing to improve or diminish taste of the BBQ)


I'm using a GOSM propane smoker with applewood chips, occasionally I'll mix in a handful of oak.  I don't soak the chips.  Smoke at 225-230 for about (slightly over) 4 hours. Once an hour I mist with apple cider mixed with a little bit of apple cider vinegar and a shot of bourbon. I use the water pan, filled with a mix of hot water and and apple cider.  I refill the smoker box after the first hour.  Midway through the cook I rotate the ribs so the top rack is now on the bottom.  The 3rd hour I turn them over so they are meat-side down, then flip them back over.  I hit them with the sauce about 30 minutes before they come out.


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