# Vinegar...??!



## Rentman (Jun 3, 2021)

I wanted to adjust some sauces. What’s the rule with vinegars?? There’s apple cider vinegar, white vinegar,  malt vinegar.  How does each effect the flavor tones of tomato bases and mustard base sauces?


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## zwiller (Jun 3, 2021)

I am not aware of any ROT and think it's just preference.  I'd estimate I have around nearly a dozen types but for BBQ sauce I'd say ACV is the one I'd reach for.  That said, I prefer to use lemon juice in BBQ sauces instead of vinegar.


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## tallbm (Jun 3, 2021)

Rentman said:


> I wanted to adjust some sauces. What’s the rule with vinegars?? There’s apple cider vinegar, white vinegar,  malt vinegar.  How does each effect the flavor tones of tomato bases and mustard base sauces?



Hi there and welcome!!!

I'm no sauce master but have made a few bbq sauces and hot sauces. I am very vinegar sensitive as in I don't really like the flavor so when I use it I know when it is too much for me and how the flavors are affected :)

Distilled White Vinegar is going to be stronger and more aggressive with the sour taste but not much of any other kind of taste.
Where Apple Cider Vinegar is less sour and has some other flavors and even a little sweetness to it.

For BBQ and Ketchup and even some Salad Dressings you will likely go with Apple Cider Vinegar as those sauces can be more tomato based or sweet tasting.

For stronger and more sour flavor you will likely go with the White Vinegar.

In my hot sauces I almost exclusively use the white vinegar because I'm not trying to add any other flavor than the vinegar flavor to it which accents and brings out the other ingredient flavors. Also I often use Lemon Juice with the white vinegar which means I can cut down the amount of white vinegar I use.

If making a mustard or a non fruit/sweet based salad dressing I would use white vinegar.

I hope this info helps! :)


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## Wurstmeister (Jun 3, 2021)

In addition to your selection, I use balsamic vinegars - various fruit mixtures and plain for my sauces and brines.  Be careful with the balsamic vinegars.  They can be intensive in flavor and like white vinegar, they can quickly overpower the other flavors in the sauce. That being said, sometimes I'll use balsamic vinegar as my dominant flavor, especially with my pork and beef meals. This will help "cut through" the fat and enhance the rub/seasoning mixture. 
John


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## chef jimmyj (Jun 3, 2021)

More Tart to Less Tart...
White
Apple 
Wine
Malt
Rice
All will work in Sauces. I interchange Apple and Wine Vinegar all the time.
I just made my Tangy Finishing Sauce. Was out of ACV replaced it with Red Wine Vin, it was Great. My SC style Mustard Sauce uses ACV but I would not hesitate to sub in Malt Vin...JJ


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## PolishDeli (Jun 3, 2021)

You'll probably just have to experiment. 

Already lots of good info from others.  Here is my $0.02

•You can really taste the apple fruitiness in this one:


•Labe looks the same on this one, but it is very differnt. Strong flavor. Not neary as fruity as the one above.  For bbq sauce, give this a try.


•I've not used much malt vinegar.  Probably mostly interchangeable with ACV, but it does have a different flavor. I use malt+ACV for making worcestershire sauce.





						Worcestershire sauce recipe
					

This is my secret formulation for worcestershire sauce.   There is no standard ingredients list for this condiment. The only required items are vinegar, tamarind, and anchovies.  Historically, it's a fermented fish sauce. It was invented by the British during their colonialization of India...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				





•Ive only used rice vinegar for sushi rice.


•DIY faux aged balsamic vinegar.  This works well:



•I use a lot of white vinegar,  but not really for cooking.  It's acidic and thats about it.

Good luck.  Let us know what you discover.


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## zwiller (Jun 3, 2021)

PolishDeli said:


> •You can really taste the apple fruitiness in this one:



Thanks.  I will check that out!  On that note, I use apple juice in all my injections and tried a few and I thought nearly all tasted the same until I tried Tree Top.  WOAH.  Crazy good and much better than the others.  


R
 Rentman
   Just noticed your new.  Welcome!  Grab Jeff's sauce and rub recipes.  The sauce is stellar.  Good framework to start with if you like to tweak.  

If white vinegar is not tart enough for ya (25%):


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jun 3, 2021)

Old rule of thumb... ACV for cooking.  Distilled white vinegar for pickling and cleaning.


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## chopsaw (Jun 3, 2021)

ACV  for sure , but I like Red wine vinegar in sauce .
Red wine vinegar
Brown sugar
Yellow mustard
Bourbon
All to taste .
Scald the bourbon to boil off the booze .


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## chef jimmyj (Jun 3, 2021)

zwiller said:


> If white vinegar is not tart enough for ya (25%):



Wow, 25% Acetic Acid? Geez, you can Strip Paint and remove Rust, with that stuff!...JJ


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## sandyut (Jul 26, 2021)

Funny...my wife LOVES vinegar bbq sauces, like wont put anything else on anything.  rec Tec makes a "Spicy  BBQ sauce that is her fave.  not my fav...  I do like killer hogs vinegar sauce ,and blues hog Tennessee red.

But yes agree white vinegar is for cleaning, not eating.


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## bill1 (Jul 26, 2021)

The older I get, the more I like a vinegar flavor to sauces, soups, etc.  If I find I overdo it, adding some sweet like fruit juice (apple juice for white or ACV, prune juice for WV) seems to neutralize it.  And any excuse to add brown sugar for thickening is a Big Win for me.      
Spice (jalapeno, Sriracha, etc) seems to _accentuate _the sour so I try to get the heat I want before tuning up the sour.  
Bitter is the flavor essence I struggle with.  All I know is I like hoppy beer!  
But I'm amateur all the way...certainly no Chef.  JimmyJ et al are the ones to listen to.


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 26, 2021)

Surprisingly,  Salt is the best way to buffer Bitter. Coffee tastes Bitter and you don't want it too Sweet? A small pinch of Salt will tone it down. Salt works magic on the Bitter edge of Grapfruit.
Sweet balances Sour but if the Sour in a sauce is too sharp and, again, you don't want it too sweet, a pinch of Baking Soda will neutralize acid. May leave a little Fizz but that will dissipate...JJ


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## Fueling Around (Jul 27, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> Surprisingly,  Salt is the best way to buffer Bitter. Coffee tastes Bitter and you don't want it too Sweet? A small pinch of Salt will tone it down. Salt works magic on the Bitter edge of Grapfruit.
> Sweet balances Sour but if the Sour in a sauce is too sharp and, again, you don't want it too sweet, a pinch of Baking Soda will neutralize acid. May leave a little Fizz but that will dissipate...JJ


Baking soda both reduces the acidic edge and leaves a salty buffer.
Old college trick to extend coffee grounds.


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## Wurstmeister (Jul 27, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> Surprisingly,  Salt is the best way to buffer Bitter. Coffee tastes Bitter and you don't want it too Sweet? A small pinch of Salt will tone it down. Salt works magic on the Bitter edge of Grapfruit.
> Sweet balances Sour but if the Sour in a sauce is too sharp and, again, you don't want it too sweet, a pinch of Baking Soda will neutralize acid. May leave a little Fizz but that will dissipate...JJ


Thanks for the reminders, especially buffering coffee (bitters)!!  I forgot all about that one. 
John


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## bill1 (Jul 27, 2021)

They weren't _reminders _for me Wurstmeister.  JimmyJ has to school me like a child.  
For years I really burned the calories and eating was just a way to fuel the furnace.  Now that I'm older (and wiser in a very few things) I'm appreciating the _aesthetic/beauty _of food as I realized I'm going to kill myself with the portion sizes I used to eat. Still, I'm far, far from being a gourmet. Bitter is the flavor my palatte is still most immature about. I mentioned liking bitter beer, well I like strong coffee too so no surprise. In fact, concentrated liquid coffee was one of those things I used to like to season sauces with. Instant coffee powder just didn't work as well. My wife threw out my pint bottle last time she cleaned the 'fridge (not realizing I use it for cooking not drinking) and I've sort of forgotten about it. I call it one of my secret ingredients...like prune juice it's best not to tell folks it's in their meal because it just grosses them out.


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