# Too much pink salt? Safety Q



## SonnyA (Nov 19, 2020)

Hello Experts, 

In rush, I did not read the labels and  I used more sodium nitrate/nitrite than I needed.

I have 10 lbs brisket in 2 gallons of brine and used 1 1/2 cup on Morton Tender  Quick and 5 teaspoons on Anthony's pink curing salt #1.

Is this an unsafe level of sodium nitrate/nitrite? Today is the 4th of brine. If I replaced the brine with just water for two days, would it make the meat salvageable?


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## dirtsailor2003 (Nov 19, 2020)

First question why are you using cure #1 and MQT together???


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## SonnyA (Nov 19, 2020)

Yes, I used 1 1/2 cup of MQT and 5 teaspoon of #1 together to make a 2 gallon brine for 10 lb brisket.


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## SonnyA (Nov 19, 2020)

Why! It was a mistake? I picked up MQT instead of simple kosher salt! Human error :(


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## JC in GB (Nov 19, 2020)

*DANGER!!!!*
*
Toss that immediately.    Your PPM for nitrate is a magnitude too high.   That calculates to over 1000 PPM nitrate.  Max recommended is 156 PPM.

You will hurt yourself if you try to eat that.
*
*DANGER!*


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## TuckersBarbeque (Nov 19, 2020)

Where did you get this recipe?

1. If you have a 10 lbs of meat, you shouldn't have more than 2 teaspoons of Cure #1.
2. You shouldn't be using cure #1 with another cure product.
3. Yes, you have way too much nitrite in there.  I would not risk it.  Throw it out.  
4. I wouldn't wet brine a brisket longer than 24 hours.  In fact, my general rule is 1 hour per pound.  If you've gone 4 days already, I'm betting the meat is mush by now.

Please understand that curing meats can be very dangerous.  It's not simple salt.


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## Sowsage (Nov 19, 2020)

TuckersBarbeque said:


> 4. I wouldn't wet brine a brisket longer than 24 hours. In fact, my general rule is 1 hour per pound. If you've gone 4 days already, I'm betting the meat is mush by now.


I agree with everything you stated except this. 1hr per lb? Not gonna cut it for curing a brisket or any meat besides thin strips of jerky.. Maybe a marinade but not a curing brine. Will need to cure several days depending on the thickness of the meat not the weight. My guess is with the amount of curing salt he has in his brine its not mush at all. Its probably firmed up quite a bit. But I agree he needs to toss it and start over with the corect amounts.


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## TuckersBarbeque (Nov 19, 2020)

Sowsage said:


> I agree with everything you stated except this. 1hr per lb? Not gonna cut it for curing a brisket or any meat besides thin strips of jerky.. Maybe a marinade but not a curing brine. Will need to cure several days depending on the thickness of the meat not the weight. My guess is with the amount of curing salt he has in his brine its not mush at all. Its probably firmed up quite a bit. But I agree he needs to toss it and start over with the corect amounts.


You're right, I was just thinking of brining, not curing.  I've tried 24 hr wet brine (not cure), and after 24 hours the meat texture seems to start to fall apart.


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## Sowsage (Nov 19, 2020)

TuckersBarbeque said:


> You're right, I was just thinking of brining, not curing.  I've tried 24 hr wet brine (not cure), and after 24 hours the meat texture seems to start to fall apart.


Yes I could see that depending on whats in the brine. Ive had the same thing happen with over marinating a skirt steak. Sorry didnt mean to call you out on it but I didnt want any miss information for him. Curing is hard enough to figure out starting out lol.


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## TuckersBarbeque (Nov 19, 2020)

Sowsage said:


> Yes I could see that depending on whats in the brine. Ive had the same thing happen with over marinating a skirt steak. Sorry didnt mean to call you out on it but I didnt want any miss information for him. Curing is hard enough to figure out starting out lol.


No no, you're totally fine.  If I give improper advice I want to be called out; only way to learn.   And you're right, curing is difficult at first.  I've only been doing it for a bit over a year and I'm still learning the nuances.


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## SmokinAl (Nov 19, 2020)

I don’t know anything about TQ, but if you just used that much cure#1 without the TQ it would be OK. My advice would be never mix the two together, either use one or the other. I would not eat that meat!
You may want to check with 

 chef jimmyj
 to be sure. If he doesn’t see this just PM him. He will give you the correct answer.
Al


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## SonnyA (Nov 19, 2020)

It is just sad that my first attempt at making pastrami is gone down the drain. Only if I had paid attention and not picked up Moretn Tender Quick instead of Moreton Kosher Salt, I would have been enjoying some pastrami this weekend.

Thank you everyone for your quick advice.

Much appreciated!


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## flatbroke (Nov 19, 2020)

Misread. Deleted.


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## JC in GB (Nov 19, 2020)

MY BAD...

*I misread the Morton product nitrate levels.  It is not as bad as I first calculated but still a bit on the high side.

A good rule of thumb to get acceptable curing levels is to take the green weight of the meat plus water in kg and add 2.5 g cure #1 per kg of weight.  

JC   *


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 19, 2020)

Morton TQ has 0.5% Nitrite and 0.5% Nitrate. Adding 1.5 Cups TQ plus 5tsp Cure #1 to 10 pound of Beef and Approx. 16 pounds of Water...is NOT TOXIC...

Morton calls for 1 Cup TQ in 4 Cups Water for a Brine. This is 1.5 Cups in 32 Cups of Water! Basically, TQ's Safe amount Diluted 8 Times... Extremely Weak!

Pops Famous Brine, uses 2 Heaping Tablespoons (7-8 teaspoons) Cure #1 in 2 Gallons of Water to be Safe.
SonnyA added 5 teaspoons Cure #1 to 2 Gallons. Again Weaker than Recommended.

Together, the relatively small amount of Nitrite / Nitrate in the amount of TQ added...Plus...The Less than Recommended Cure #1, does not come close to Toxic.
Add 10 pounds of Beef, that is Only 4 Days in with maybe an Inch of penetration? Lots of untouched meat left...AND...The Beef will be Hot Smoked or Steamed Tender, further reducing the Nitrite/Nitrate. There is just No Safety issue. SORRY GUYS.

IF IT WAS ME...*I'd retrieve that Brisket from the Trash, if it was even tossed out.
Wash it well.
Make a Fresh Brine of 1 Cup PLAIN KOSHER SALT, 
2 Tbs Cure #1, 
2 Gallons of Water,
Herbs and Spices as desired,
Then Soak 10 more Days, and proceed to make Pastrami...JJ*


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## flatbroke (Nov 19, 2020)

Thanks Chef JJ


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 19, 2020)

Info on Nitrite Toxicity...
There is all most always Something that can be done before we have to Toss Meat...JJ

*How Much Nitrite is Dangerous*
According to the report prepared in 1972 for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) by Battele-Columbus Laboratories and Department of Commerce, Springfield, VA 22151 – the fatal dose of potassium Nitrate for humans is in the range of 30 to 35 grams (about two tablespoons) consumed as a single dose; the fatal dose of sodium nitrite is in the range of 22 to 23 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. A 156 lbs adult (71 kg) would have to consume 14.3 pounds (6.5 kg) of cured meat containing 200 ppm of sodium nitrite at one time. Taking into consideration that nitrite is rapidly converted to nitric oxide during the curing process, the 14.3 lbs amount will have to be doubled or even tripled. The equivalent amount of pure sodium nitrite consumed will be 1.3 g. One gram (1 ppm) of pure sodium nitrite is generally accepted as a life threatening dose.

As nitrite is mixed with large amounts of salt, it would be impossible to swallow it at least from a culinary point of view. Besides, our cures are pink and it would be very hard to mistake them for common salt.

The following information comes from the book “Meat Through the Microscope” written by C.Robert Moulton, Ph.D. and W.Lee Lewis, Ph.D. and published by Institute of Meat Packing, The University of Chicago:

_Soaking reduced the curing agents in most of the sub-sections (sliced ham-our note) but especially in the butt and face sections. Smoking had little effect on the salt, nitrate and sugar content but the nitrite content was decreased. Baking reduced the percentages of all curing ingredients but the nitrite was so greatly reduced that the highest value found was only 11 parts per million. Table 66 gives the average composition of the five whole hams and shows clearly the effects of soaking, smoking and baking._
*Effect of Operations on Composition of Hams*


StageSalt %Sugar %Nitrate %Nitrite p.p.m.Water %Stage    

Out of cure%Salt 4.93%Sugar
0.79%Nitrate 0.057PpmNitrite
138%Water 65Soaked4.600.720.04811567Smoked5.150.760.0608065Baked4.300.630.050256
(WOW! That is some SALTY Ham...JJ)

To emphasize the importance of these results, and especially of the very great destruction of nitrite by baking, one should remember in contrast that sweet-pickle solutions will contain from 500 to 1000 parts of nitrite per million and that the surface of hams removed from such pickles, especially at the ragged edges of the butt, will most certainly contain over 200 p.p.m. However, after soaking and smoking the average nitrite content is well within the prescribed limits. In the survey summarized above only two out of 10 surface sections showed over 200 p.p.m. of nitrite. In spite of the figures given in the first part of this paragraph, no subsection of surface meat showed more than 11 p.p.m. after baking.

By the time meats are consumed, they contain less then 50 parts per million of nitrite. It is said that commercially prepared meats in the USA contain about 10 ppm of nitrite when bought in a supermarket.

From this Highly Respected Source...






						Nitrates
					

When we used salt with a higher nitrate content the meat had a different taste and color




					www.meatsandsausages.com


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 19, 2020)

Ok... 
S
 SonnyA
 , what did you do or plan to do...Besides getting MORTON KOSHER SALT for the Future?...JJ


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## dernektambura (Nov 19, 2020)

I gave up on wet brine years ago... try vacuum seal curing... all about curing is to reduce water content by infusing salt, reverse osmosis to be exact... amd, use miligram/gram scale... teaspoon is not accurate...


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## SonnyA (Nov 19, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> Ok...
> S
> SonnyA
> , what did you do or plan to do...Besides getting MORTON KOSHER SALT for the Future?...JJ



Well, I procrastinated and did not through away the meat. I Dumped 3/4 of the water and added fresh cold water to dilute the brine. Then read your post and now plan to make a fresh brine tomorrow morning and leaving it for few more days and serve with on Thanksgiving along with Turkey.


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## dernektambura (Nov 19, 2020)

Look... honestly I don't think your meat turn garbage after 4 days in brine... for salt and nitrite cure it takes time to work itself in to the meat... its not like nitrite is 3 times faster than salt..  I would replace old brine with fresh cold. water and desalt next 24 hrs changing water every 4 to 6 hrs... then use 2/3 of salt only to finish brining..


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## SonnyA (Dec 7, 2020)

SonnyA said:


> Well, I procrastinated and did not through away the meat. I Dumped 3/4 of the water and added fresh cold water to dilute the brine. Then read your post and now plan to make a fresh brine tomorrow morning and leaving it for few more days and serve with on Thanksgiving along with Turkey.



i am happy to report, that the pastrami worked out better than expected. Although i pushed temperature up-to 128 but it was not dry and had good flavor. If i paid attention and pulled out at 120 it would have been perfect.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 8, 2020)

Glad to see all went well. The Pastrami looks great...JJ


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