# Mixing in more sugar or adding syrup to Mortan Tender Quick?



## dzlvs8 (Jul 28, 2012)

I am making my first try at dry curing and cold smoking bacon and I can only find Mortons TQ locally.  I can't find plain ol' pink salts.  I wanted to have some creativity in the process and add some maple to some of the bacon and maybe some brown sugar to some other parts, but I dont know if thats a good idea and I dont know how to do it and still get my portions of TQ right per pound. 

Basically, I am not sure if my bacon will be way too sweet if I add syrup and I dont know if my portioning of TQ will need to be higher  than what it says on the bag since I am diluting the cure with brown sugar or syrup.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 28, 2012)

DO NOT under any circumstances, dilute or otherwise mess with the cure (TQ).
Measure out the correct amount of TQ for the particular piece of meat you are curing, and only then add any extra sugar, etc.
The amount of added sugar is a matter of personal preference.


~Martin


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 28, 2012)

Thanks for the reply but I'm pretty sure you totally misunderstood my question.  Adding maple syrup or brown sugar will dilute the potency of the solution I am using for the cure.  SO, even though I will measure out the proper amount of tender quick for my amount of belly, it will become a diluted solution.  Is this a problem? In this case, should I add more TQ?

Also, I am not about to taste tender quick.  But I am curious of how sweet it is.  I don't want overly sweet bacon.  If I am adding syrup to TQ will I have an overly sweet slab?  I'm thinking it may be best for me to just drive out of town and find some pink salt.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 28, 2012)

"I'm diluting the cure" was the confusing part.
Adding the extra sugar is not a problem. Don't add extra TQ.
TQ is only 2% sugar, so not noticeably sweet.

~Martin


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 28, 2012)

Ok. Great news.  So I am to assume that the rest of TQ is 97.5% salt, to be exact?  I would like to make sure that i omit the correct amount of kosher salt from the cure.  

Also, here's a bonus question.  What is anyones prefered recipe for bacon?  I have 12 lbs, yet some of it is quite thin.  I plan on cold smoking with hickory, but i want to mix up my recipes.   I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of ultra sweet bacon so I plan on doing only a little with maple and some other stuff will be peppered..but I'm confused about the recommened sugar for the cure.  Is that brown sugar or white sugar?  Is the standard calculator for curing talking about a necessary basic amount of sugar for a cure or is that just if you want a sweet bacon?  The calculator I am referring to is on this site, here: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/121541/bacon-dry-cure-recipe  .


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 28, 2012)

I definitely wouldn't add any additional salt, the TQ when used at the recommended rate provides close to 3% salt.
I don't like bacon sweet, I don't add more than 1/2 a percent sugar, white or brown, if I add sugar at all.


~Martin


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 28, 2012)

????

If Tender Quick consists of

3% salt

2% sugar

.5% Sodium nitrate/nitrite

then whats in the other 94.5% of it.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 28, 2012)

No no no!
3% of the weight of the meat!


~Martin


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## so ms smoker (Jul 28, 2012)

Don't add anything while you are curing. Get the curing done, then add flavors. I had 2 cured bellies and added maple extract to some and course black pepper to some. Then cold smoke with hickory, apple, pecan. Whatever you like. Good smoking.

Mike


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 29, 2012)

So MS Smoker said:


> Don't add anything while you are curing. Get the curing done, then add flavors. I had 2 cured bellies and added maple extract to some and course black pepper to some. Then cold smoke with hickory, apple, pecan. Whatever you like. Good smoking.
> 
> Mike


I've never heard of doing it that way.  How long did you let it sit with the maple on it before you rinsed it off and smoked it? and why do you add your flavors after curing?


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## so ms smoker (Jul 29, 2012)

I had alblancher cure the bellies for me. About 3 weeks. I cut the bellies into fourths and did them different ways.One rubbed with white sugar, one with brown sugar, one with course black pepper, and one with maple extract. (the maple was the best!).  After rubbing, wrapped in plastic and into the fridge for three days. Took out and cold smoked  then sliced. It was awesome!

   I don't think it needs flavoring while curing. The curing is its own process for it's own reason, then add the flavor. It worked for me.

Mike


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks for the info.  I have noticed some differences in the way people are "dry" curing their bacon.  Here are the two processes I have seen.

*Method 1 (seems to be a common method): *

Throw all of your cure and seasonings on the bacon, zip lock it in the fridge and flip it every 24 hours,
rinse when done,
check for saltiness,
smoke.
*Method 2 (from this site where the curing calculator is http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/dry-cured-bacon-calculator-and-procedure):*

Throw a third of your rub on the bacon, zip lock it in the fridge and let it sit for 3 or 4 days in the fridge,
then add another third of the rub and let it sit for 3 or 4 more days,
and then do it all one last time and add flavors at this time,
rinse,
check for saltiness,
smoke.
So is one of those two methods wrong?  Is there a lot of risk of improper curing in the first method?   Basically, I wanna do the first method cuz it sounds easier.  Is that ok?


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## so ms smoker (Jul 29, 2012)

I won't say anything is wrong. I am not the expert. Both those methods sound reasonable to me. Personally, I would check with alblancher about bacon. Look him up. He will be glad to help!  Only thing is he does not use Tender Quick! He uses pink salt.

Mike


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 29, 2012)

Alblancher is taking a break from the Forum for awhile. Method one is valid and works well. I would suggest keeping things simple if this is your first Bacon. You want Maple flavor add some Syrup to the Recipe, as long as you have the proper amount of TQ for the weight of Belly, 1 Cup of Maple Syrup or a Teaspoon or two of extra Herbs and/or Spices will not hurt the process. There are different ways guys add flavor to a basic bacon cure. I like whatever I am adding to be intense so I add flavor ingredients from the Beginning. Others get the desired result adding additional flavorings at the end and giving a couple extra days to absorb...Check these threads out, they are from the same guy and TQ specific...JJ

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/bearcarvers-smoked-bacon-step-by-step-with-qview

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/108099/bacon-extra-smoky

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/87395/bacon-idea

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/89447/more-bacon-qview


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 29, 2012)

If you want the flavorings to fully permeate the bacon, add them at the beginning of curing.


~Martin


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## smokinhusker (Jul 29, 2012)

In my opinion, TQ is extremely salty. I used it one time for bacon and will never use it again. Even after soaking it for nearly 3 hours it was still way too salty for our taste. 

I also tried adding maple syrup to my cure, but didn't get much flavor but it sure does caramelize/char around the edges from the sugar. I now just brush maple syrup over the outer surface for flavor prior to smoking it.

Good luck!


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## mds51 (Jul 29, 2012)

I just finished curing and smoking two pork bellies using MTQ as per the bag instructions or 1 TBLS per pound of meat, and adding 2TBLS of brown sugar per pound of meat.. I mixed both ingredients thoroughly and and rubbed them into the bellies while they were each in a two gallon ZipLoc bag.to keep from making a mess and not losing any curing strength. I sealed them up and let them cure for 10 days using the 1/4 inch per day rule and turning them each with a massage. The brine formed immediately and after 10 days I rinsed them off and let them form a Pellicle in the Fridge for a 24 hours.Before smoking I rubbed each belly down with pure Maple Syrup.  I cold smoked them with Apple pellets and a touch of Hickory pellets using the AMNPS and bottles of ice to combat the 100 degree Oklahoma weather. They smoked for 10 hours and came out looking great and I put them sealed up in the fridge to mellow out. I have sliced one and given it to friends and family members. I forgot to add that i did do a fry test and the taste was fine and not too salty. I fried some of the bacon using a low heat and the taste was very good with a hint of the maple and brown sugar. My nest batch will be using Cure #1 so I can control the salt even better. I do not like a lot of salt and I will see if this cure makes a difference.


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## gotarace (Jul 29, 2012)

I have used Bearcarver's method for curing bellies with great success...the last batch i added 2 tablespoons of brown sugar per lb of belly {instead of 1} and it was noticeably sweeter in the finished product. I rub the belly first with the correct amount of tenderquick to get it evenly distributed...then i add my brown sugar or powdered honey. Here is a bacon q-view i posted using tenderquick....http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/117872/cold-smoked-belly-bacon-with-q-view#post_783220

Len


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 29, 2012)

Ok, Thanks for all the advice so far.  I felt that I had enough info to give this a go, so I went ahead and trimmed off the skin and seasoned and MTQ'd the 12 lbs of belly.  I unfortunately have a couple of questions now related to whether or not I'm going to die when I eat this stuff.  Seriously.

Does the pork belly ever smell a little bit?  I bought this pork belly frozen from the butcher.  They cut it there and flash freeze it.  So I would think that it would be very very hard to get a spoiled piece of meat but after buying it on Friday and thawing it out Friday afternoon, I left it in the fridge until tongiht (Sunday) and it had a slight smell to it.  I dont know if it was a bad smell, but I think it was.  So how likely is it that I have some spoiled meat?  Should it have any smell because of the skin?

Second, is there any way to tell if your meat is not properly cured?  The reason I am asking is because I am wondering if some of my cure came off.  Basically, I rubbed the MTQ into all of the pieces of meat and then seasoned the meat after that.  The meat sweated while being seasoned and some of the seasoning and probably at least a little bit of the MTQ rubbed off.  I don't know how much rubbed off though.  So, I just shook some more in the bag.  I'm sure I don't have too much MTQ in the meat that I'm going to OD on MTQ, but I'm somewhat concerned that I may not have enough MTQ on some of the pieces.

So, am I likely going to die?


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 29, 2012)

Was this commercial pork belly?

The bellies can have a smell, there's no cause for concern unless the belly smelled of ammonia or sulphur.

Give them enough time to cure and you'll be fine, a small amount of wayward cure isn't a problem.


~Martin


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 29, 2012)

well it was slightly fishy or sulfury, but not really strong or anything.  It was a little hard to tell what the smell was bcuz it wasn't that strong.   I could put my nose right up to the meat and could only faintly smell it.  So it wasn't pungent.  Thanks for the confidence boost.  

Last question for now, does anyone have a solution to curing 3/4" thick slabs and 2" slabs at the same time?  I know my 3/4" slabs will be done sooner.  Is just letting the thinner pieces cure for the same time that the thicker pieces to cure my best option?   and then soaking any extra/unwanted saltiness out?  Yeah, idk, but the variations in thickness of this slab is pretty extreme and kinda makes me mad.  I think the butcher is blind. Next time I will try someone else.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 29, 2012)

As long as you used the recommended amount of cure, there's no way they can over-cure.
So curing them together isn't a problem, it's not uncommon to cure pieces of meat with varying thickness.
You can always pull the thin ones out early.



~Martin


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## dzlvs8 (Jul 30, 2012)

so, I'm really worried about this botulism thing.  There's a slight chance that a lot of the MtQ came off and I didn't reads enough to the meat.   I really don't want to throw away all this bacon because I'm probably worrying about nothing, but should I do anything?  I am wondering if I should maybe just add some more salt (instead of adding too much more MtQ).  I'm not sure if that would even help but I'm really wondering hoe much I would be at risk of botulism if I possibly lost too much mtq when applying it.   

Sorry about all the questions but this has became a little bit of an unsettling process, since I'm making it for more people than myself.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 30, 2012)

You're worrying too much and making it more difficult than it needs to be! :biggrin:
It'll be fine, don't add more salt, that's not going to accomplish anything.


~Martin


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## gotarace (Jul 30, 2012)

DiggingDogFarm said:


> You're worrying too much and making it more difficult than it needs to be!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


X2 I understand your concern but you are going to worry yourself sick over a little lost tenderquick!!


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 30, 2012)

STOP FREAKING OUT! While it is important to use the proper amount of cure. The manufacturers write their instuctions with a little wiggle room for error. The recommended amounts usually fall in the middle of the range between too little and too much. There is a highly respected Member that specifies in Her Bacon instructions to measure your MTQ and flavoring ingredients, mix well, rub the Bellies on both sides making sure to get the edges too...Then pick the belly up and Shake off any excess... Bag and refrigerate for 6-7 days...So you see a little falling off is NOT a need for concern...JJ


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## dzlvs8 (Aug 7, 2012)

Ok.  My belly has been in the fridge for 8 days and its time to rinse, cook, and test a piece aaaaaannd I'm freakin out again. I was expecting there to be water in the bag from the process of the sodium nitrite drawing out the water from the meat.  I don't see any water in ANY of the four bags.  The meat maybe seems a little firmer than originally, but there is definitely not any water in any of the bags except the one that had syrup in it and that has a very watery looking substance in it (probably maple and water).  

So is something wrong?  I would like to know before I rinse these and taste them.  

FYI - I neaded them and fliped them everyday in the fridge and never saw a drop of water in the bags!  They were practically air tight.


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 7, 2012)

There's nothing wrong, it's not uncommon for their not to be any residual liquid.


~Martin


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## dzlvs8 (Aug 7, 2012)

Oh ok.  I've just heard a lot of people talking about a ton of water coming out after the first day.        ....So, its the middle of the week.  Any suggestions on how to delay smoking until the weekend, since the cure is done?   Can I just rinse the slabs off and zip lock them back up in a brand new bag and hold off until saturday? (today is wednesday).


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 7, 2012)

I would leave them as is, in the fridge, there's an advantage to letting the salt equalize throughout the meat.
Then do test fry before smoking to test the saltiness, if you wish.

~Martin


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## dzlvs8 (Aug 11, 2012)

Duplicate Post


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## dzlvs8 (Aug 11, 2012)

Alright,  its been 15 minutes since I've ate some bacon and I'm not dead yet.    I've also had a bowl of wheaties.  Hopefully Wheaties cures Botulism.  

So here's what I'm afraid of now.  I've cured the belly.  I had four cuts in four separate bags.  One bag was maple cured and a portion of the meat is brown.  See the pics below.  One pic has the flash on and it almost looks like there is no brown on the meat in that pic, but there is.  The actual color is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes show in the pics.  So, can curing in maple do this?  This was the bag that became extremely watery.  I assume that was because of the maple.  I kneaded the bag and flipped it every day for 12 days (I know thats a little long).  I assume the liquid should have helped to spread out the MTQ better and it also seems odd that the middle of the meat is brown and not the ends, but this is the portion that probably had the least contact with MTQ since the meat sat in the zip lock bag directly on the shelf in the fridge.  Every other day, there probably wasn't a lot of MTQ making contact wit this area.

Should I toss this piece of meat?  This is the only piece that turned a shade of brown at all.  Its the only cut that I cured in maple, brown sugar, and MTQ.  Is it from the maple?  How fast will Botulism set in until my arms get numb and I cant call 911?

ITS ONLY ON THE PIECE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE.  ITS IN THE CENTER OF THE MIDDLE AND LOWER PORTIONS OF THE CUT.













DSC03255.jpg



__ dzlvs8
__ Aug 11, 2012






It's hard to see it in this pic with the flash on the camera but look closely.













DSC03259.jpg



__ dzlvs8
__ Aug 11, 2012


















DSC03254.jpg



__ dzlvs8
__ Aug 11, 2012


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## gotarace (Aug 11, 2012)

Your bacon looks normal to me...the different color is from air contact. Also the maple can cause a bit of color change.  I wouldn't hesitate one bit on eating that bacon after it is smoked.  I would form a pellicle on the bacon and get it in the smoker. The longer you wait... the longer it is before you start to enjoy your bacon!!!


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## dzlvs8 (Aug 11, 2012)

Thanks for the info.  It's "pectile'n" now.     So, I just tasted it a second time....well, I made a big ass BLT and its so delicious!  How much is cold smoking it with Hickory going to change the flavor of it?  It's delicious now.    Does anyone have any recommendations on how long to smoke for.  FYI - I dont use an AMPS.  I have my own rig and it makes TONS of smoke.  Any recommendations on how long people usually cold smoke theres?  I'd hate to ruin the bacon by over smoking it.  It already tastes great!


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## gotarace (Aug 11, 2012)

I smoke my bacon for 24-32 hours with a true cold smoke or 12-16 hours if i apply a little heat { temps less than 120} It scares me when you say your smoke generator will produce tons of smoke...you never want white thick smoke coming from your smoker...you are going for thin blue wisps of smoke coming out of your exhaust. If you smell smoke your smoking. Use the search bar and read about thin blue smoke please...here is one example...http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110195/thin-blue-smoke

Hopes this helps...Len


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## dzlvs8 (Aug 11, 2012)

Yeah, I know about thin blue smoke.  It's just not what usually happens if I do a really long smoke.  So why the hell would you smoke it for 32 hours.  I cold smoke cheese (below 80 F, what I assume you mean to be "true cold smoke") and my cheese is more smokey than necessary.  I was thinking that I would have to smoke the bacon between 4 and 14 hours.  32? what are you smokin?!


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## gotarace (Aug 11, 2012)

If you add heat...under 120* you can get awesome flavor in 8 hours of smoke...cold smoke some bacon for 4 hours and get back to me with the results...I'll be waiting.


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