# Bread baking newbee



## pushok2018

I am not a newbie in general baking but know almost nothing about baking bread... and always wanted to try. I read many posts about making bread on this forum and online but at this stage I  what to ask a general queitson: what do I need before I start this new hobby? I know I need a dutch oven but don't know what size would be sufficient for this? Would 4,5 Qt be OK? Or I need 6 Qt oven? Also, I need a dough scraper. Anything else? I am not talking about ingredients - I am interested about hardware part. Thank you!


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## chopsaw

I just use a stand mixer or the food processor to mix the dough . Used to do it all by hand . I have baked in a dutch oven , but not something you have to have . 
Bench scraper is nice to have for a lot of things . 
I have nice sheet pans that just get used for baking , and some wire cooling racks . 
That's it for me , but I'm no expert .


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## pushok2018

Thank you, chopsaw! I got the idea  of having a dutch oven from this forum. Also, I know that a dutch oven provide more even cooking.... I understand that this is not exactly necessity to have...


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## Whoppr

I do not do a lot of baking, but do really enjoy the no-knead method when making bread.


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## noboundaries

It really depends what kind of bread you are making. I use an 8 quart stainless Dutch oven for round rustic bread. For long rustic loaves you can use a pizza stone, pizza pan, or cookie sheet with a pan of boiling water in the bottom of your kitchen oven. The moisture is what creates the crisp crunch.

For sliced sandwich bread, a 9x5 inch loaf pan works great. 

An electric knife will give crumb-free slices. 

I, too, use a stand mixer for the vast majority of the kneading. Unless I'm making a biga bread which requires minimum kneading but 12-24 hours. 

Post some bread pics!


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## noboundaries

A cast iron pizza stone or thick bottom skillet is great for making flour tortillas, pita bread, and naan bread. These are SOOOO easy. You can go from idea to finished product in less than an hour, sometimes less than a half hour. Make a lot and freeze the extras, or make a little and make more often. They don't keep as long as store bought.


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## pushok2018

Thank you, noboundaries. I am planning to make round rustic and sandwich brads but depending how it progress - I am not limited to only those type of breads...


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## mneeley490

This is a very easy bread recipe. I have a couple smaller dutch ovens that were given to me by my mother-in-law that work very well. No markings on them, but I figure one is about 4-4.5 qt, and the other is a little bigger. I've also seen people use a deep enamel pot for this recipe. Just click the link.






						Dutch Oven No Knead Bread
					

I found this recipe by a farmer on Youtube. He and his wife appear to be self-sustaining, which is remarkable in this day and age.    Tried it out yesterday, and the result was very good. It's very easy, and makes a round, artisan-style loaf.




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## pushok2018

Thank you, mneeley! I appreciate that. BTW, I have this recipe bookmarked...


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## oldsmokerdude

I'm a bread baker from way back, currently bake most everything myself: sandwich bread, sourdough, bagels, hot dog and hamburger buns, etc. I can honestly say you don't *NEED* anything special to make great bread except an oven. There are lots of tools and gadgets that make the process easier or more efficient, but every baker has different ideas of what those are. 

One item that I think most might agree on and which I recommend (but again, you don't need) as your first purchase is a high quality baking stone. Get the largest that will fit in your oven. I use it for breads, pizza, and most things. Mine actually stays in my oven all the time and helps provide a more even and consistent heat. 

The next item I would recommend is an accurate digital kitchen scale. Most bakers weigh their ingredients instead of using volume measurements. Many recipes you find on line will list the ingredients by weight. But you can certainly make good bread without one.

After you bake a few loaves, you may find that you want a certain bread pan or dutch oven or cloche or whatever. You may decide you want a high end mixer or a bread proofer. Just make sure it is something you believe will help you make better bread and not something someone said you needed in a post somewhere.

And, most importantly, have fun with it.


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## bregent

For rustic breads  you really want a dutch oven. You need high humidity in order to form that crispy crust. You could try adding humidity with bowls of boiling water, wet towels, or several other methods that folks try. None of them really work well because home ovens are vented, and any humidity you create goes right out the vent.

I use a 5-qt Lodge dual purpose dutch oven.  I like the dual purpose design because it doesn't have a long handle that would get in the way, and the lid is flat (no top handle), so you can dump the bread into that, slash, and then cover with the deeper piece. It just makes it easier to slash without burning your arm :)

I don't see the Lodge available on Amazon right now, but this one is very similar:


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## pushok2018

oldsmokerdude said:


> One item that I think most might agree on and which I recommend (but again, you don't need) as your first purchase is a high quality baking stone.


Thank you, oldsmokerdude! This is what I needed to know at the beginning of my journey... It's good to know about baking stone... On my list to order...


bregent said:


> I use a 5-qt Lodge dual purpose dutch oven.


Thank you, bregent. Currently I have one 7 qt dutch oven (I have it for about 5 years) but it is little too bit... I ordered another good quality dutch oven 5 qt (oval form) from Amazon today... Just dropped a 5-qt Lodge dual purpose dutch oven in my cart and saved it for later (I don't wnat my wife kick my axx for ordering too many toys at once) but will definitely order it later because I would like to have a round oven also...   
Thank you again to all!!


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## bregent

Oh yeah, oldsmokerdude mentioned a scale and I agree, that's something you want to be able to have consistent results - they're pretty inexpensive these days.

Proofing chamber is not required, but will also help with consistency. I just use an small cooler, with a heating pad (some folks use a light bulb) and temp controller, which also doubles as a seedling starter :


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## Whoppr

mneeley490 said:


> This is a very easy bread recipe. I have a couple smaller dutch ovens that were given to me by my mother-in-law that work very well. No markings on them, but I figure one is about 4-4.5 qt, and the other is a little bigger. I've also seen people use a deep enamel pot for this recipe. Just click the link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dutch Oven No Knead Bread
> 
> 
> I found this recipe by a farmer on Youtube. He and his wife appear to be self-sustaining, which is remarkable in this day and age.    Tried it out yesterday, and the result was very good. It's very easy, and makes a round, artisan-style loaf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smokingmeatforums.com



I use cast iron all the time for no-knead.  Sometimes a clay baker if I dont want a round shape but more of a loaf.  I use a lodge 8 qt cast iron, no enamel.  It does not stick and lifts right out of the dutch oven when its done.


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## pushok2018

bregent said:


> Oh yeah, oldsmokerdude mentioned a scale and I agree, that's something you want to be able to have consistent results - they're pretty inexpensive these days.
> 
> Proofing chamber is not required, but will also help with consistency. I just use an small cooler, with a heating pad (some folks use a light bulb) and temp controller, which also doubles as a seedling starter


Thank you, bregent. I do have scales (three of them -  all with different gradation). Also, I have special bulb (I use it to ferment sausages) for heating and three temp controllers so... I am pretty equipped in this regard.... The idea of having  small cooler as a proofing chamber is nice. Thanks again!


Whoppr said:


> I use cast iron all the time for no-knead. Sometimes a clay baker if I don't want a round shape but more of a loaf. I use a lodge 8 qt cast iron, no enamel. It does not stick and lifts right out of the dutch oven when its done.


Thanks whoppr. I appreciate that. I have Tramontina 7 qt cast iron dutch oven. It's not Lodge but still pretty great quality and very durable. I will receive Le Creuset 5 qt dutch oven this Monday....
I may need bread pan to make loafs but this can wait for now.... I have to try this first, right?  
Thanks again!


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## bregent

pushok2018 said:


> I will receive Le Creuset 5 qt dutch oven this Monday....



You might want to reconsider using that. The Le Creuset's are nice, but very expensive. I got one as a gift and started using that for bread but stopped because the high temp started to discolor the enamel.  You don't need anything that fancy and you do not need enamel because if you preheat the dutch oven the dough will not stick - even very wet doughs.  Also, you can make oval loaves in a round pot - I do it all the time - just use an oval banneton. 

Why not just use the Tramontina you already have?

If you do decide to use the Le Crueset you may need to change the handle  -  the one I have cannot handle the high heat of break baking.


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## pushok2018

bregent said:


> You might want to reconsider using that. The Le Creuset's are nice, but very expensive


bregent, thank you for the advice. I didn't choose Le Creuset oven because it is fancy - it about the same price as Lodge ovens and both were highly recommended by several people online for baking bread. Both brands can sustain high temperature (450-500) and enamel doesn't cheap off like it does on cheapper ovens...


bregent said:


> started using that for bread but stopped because the high temp started to discolor the enamel


Hmmm.... This is interesting... You know, I'll try this oven for couple of time within first two weeks and if I notice any discoloration - I'll return it.


bregent said:


> Why not just use the Tramontina you already have?


 It's 7 qt.  - kind of too big and heavy... Doesn't it? I don't want to bake a huge loaf of bread - something in the middle would be more appropriate for me...


bregent said:


> Also, you can make oval loaves in a round pot - I do it all the time - just use an oval banneton.


I am sorry but I have no idea for is oval banneton. I am going to google it right now. Thank you for the tip! I really appreciate your input....


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## zwiller

Great thread.  Wanna do some bread in the worst way but man, the learning curve...  Am I right, I can put a SS bowl over the stone and has same effect as DO?  Anyone have a good no knead recipe/simple rye or pumpernickel recipe?


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## bregent

pushok2018 said:


> t's 7 qt. - kind of too big and heavy... Doesn't it? I don't want to bake a huge loaf of bread - something in the middle would be more appropriate for me...



As long as you can lift easily while it's hot it's not too heavy.

If you're going to be making pre-shaped loaves like I usually do (last image below), then the size really doesn't matter. The function of the dutch oven is to create a saturated humidity environment. The loaf will not rely on the size/shape of the container for it's finished shape. 

If you plan on doing unshaped loaves, where you just dump the dough from a bowl into the DO, then a DO that fits the size of the dough can effect the shape. 

In the first image below, the DO helped form the final shape of the unshaped loaf. In the second image, I used a large DO, and the dough never touched the walls so the DO did not have a shaping effect. 

In any case, with either pre-shaped or unshaped loaves,  as long as the dough is well developed it will rise and not spread out and does not need the container to hold it's shape while baking.


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## pushok2018

Thank you, Sir! Big help in navigating me through the process.... A lot of unknowns.... 
One more question if you don't mind: making a starer for sourdough bread. I went through 4-5 Youtube videos and looks like  the process of making a starter and all measurements are different in every video I watched. Weird... I just cannot get to the final conclusion on which method/process I should rely on... Any thought?


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## noboundaries

This thread has inspired me. I haven't baked any bread since the holidays. I'm getting a hankering for a flatbread. The cool thing about bread baking is that you can use the same basic recipe for lots of different styles of bread.  It may violate some cultural expectations, but will still be delicious!

Some folks are of the mindset that baking bread must be done at a specific oven temp, and for specialty breads, that's probably true. I make common breads, and I've used oven temps from 350F to 550F, but generally stick to 350-425F. A look at color, a finger thump (hollow sound), and a quick instant read therm check (195-200F) and you're done! 

Baking bread, smoking meat, and roasting coffee are my three favorite taste bud addictions.


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## pushok2018

noboundaries said:


> Baking bread, smoking meat, and roasting coffee are my three favorite taste bud addictions


Completely agreed! I am smoking meats, am trying to get into bread making right now. I LOVE coffee but never though about roasting beans... At least not just yet!


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## zwiller

Sour dough and flat bread (and coffee)...  You guys are reading my mind.    Trying to stay away from coffee for now as I am a big espresso nerd with pressurized portafilter setup and already have enough hobbies at it is.   That said, we eat a lot of bread.  

Is flat bread just not proofed or whatever and just rolled out and baked?  



 pushok2018
 Some members still use bread machines.  At first I thought it was kinda odd but later I realized they do not bake in them but just program to do all work but bake in oven like this thread.


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## bregent

pushok2018 said:


> One more question if you don't mind: making a starer for sourdough bread.



I'd recommend this one, it works well for me: https://tartinebakery.com/stories/country-bread
You probably don't need that big of a starter so scale it down to use 200-400 grams of flour total. 


However, once you have the starter going I suggest this for maintenance:








						No Muss No Fuss Starter
					

I thought I would make a post on how I keep my starter for those who have an interest in doing the same. My method is based on several wants. First, I don’t want to maintain or feed a starter for up to 16 weeks. Second, I want to keep as small amount of starter as possible so that I can bake a...




					www.thefreshloaf.com


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## clifish

I have 5lbs of low carb carbolouse flour and I have been dying to make some low carb bread from.


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## pushok2018

bregent, and again- THANK YOU!


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## noboundaries

Here's my rustic bread recipe. When I make flatbread out of it, I use a cookie sheet, pizza pan, paella pan, or just parchment paper on a stone. I use all-purpose flour, not bread flour, for flatbread. It gives a softer bread. I also put a little dried oregano and dry basil in it. A little dry hard freshly grated cheese in it adds another level of subtle flavor.  You can finger dimple it like foccacia and cover with extra virgin olive oil prior to baking, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. 






						Easy Peasy Rustic Bread
					

My wife and I have a bread we love to buy from the grocers called Pugliese Bread.  I've been trying to find a recipe that duplicates the crunchy exterior and soft, big holed interior.  I could tell from tasting it the recipe had to be simple.  Here is the closest thing I've found and it is...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## Whoppr

zwiller said:


> Great thread.  Wanna do some bread in the worst way but man, the learning curve...  Am I right, I can put a SS bowl over the stone and has same effect as DO?  Anyone have a good no knead recipe/simple rye or pumpernickel recipe?



I would check Breadtopia.  I can try and dig up a recipe  from that site or another, but I would look there first.  I love rye but have never done a no knead rye.  Anyone interested the whole no knead method went viral after Mark Bittman did a NY times article on Sullivan St. Bakery in NY.  Jim Lahey may not have invented the method but used it in his bakery and popularized it through Mark Bittman's article.  Since then there have been adaptations for all types of bread including pizza crust and other breads.

I can dig up the links if anyone is interested.


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## pushok2018

Good day everyone.... One more question... if I can... It's hard to find any flour at this time especially bread or whole wheat flour but I still have All Purpose one in my stush.... Is this OK to use APF for bread or it's not really recommended? From your personal experience? Thank you...


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## bregent

pushok2018 said:


> Is this OK to use APF for bread



I've used AP for Country Loaf and it worked fine - not as good as bread flour but it worked. But I also use some whole wheat in the mix. See if you can locate some vital wheat gluten to add some strength.


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## pushok2018

Great! Thank you for your advice. I appreciate that!


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## pushok2018

OK guys.... This is your guilt.... yours for 100%.... This is my first bread and.... I am on hook now!!!
I used noboundaries's Easy Peasy Rustic Bread recipe and... such a simple recipe but bread is so tasty! Very crunchy. Thank you all of you!


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## bregent

Nice job! You are well on your way. Now sit back and watch your waistline grow.


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## noboundaries

pushok2018 said:


> I used noboundaries's Easy Peasy Rustic Bread recipe and... such a simple recipe but bread is so tasty! Very crunchy. Thank you all of you!



You are very welcome! And thank you for a huge smile. You've baked a beeeeutiful loaf!


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## johnmeyer

That bread looks amazing!

I've been baking bread for 50+ years. I agree with oldsmokerdude: you need no equipment whatsoever. You mix the ingredients together, let it rise once, shape it into a loaf, let it rise again, and then bake.

Things which I've bought over the years which improve the process:

Stand mixer. Let it do the kneading.
Bread flour. Its higher gluten makes a big difference in results. With flour in short supply now, using AP will work, but the texture won't be quite as good
Baking stone. This is less important for loaves baked in pans, although it does help them. For loaves like what you just baked it can help get a better crust.
Scale. As others have pointed out, you will get MUCH more consistent results, although converting recipes from volume (cups) to weight can be problematic because, if you research the Internet, you'll find that there is absolutely no agreement on how many ounces is in one cup of AP or whole wheat or bread flour.
Diastatic malt. I didn't discover this one until recently. I remember my dad telling me, back in the 70s when he was consulting with a bakery, that they had a "secret" ingredient they used that wasn't available to the general public. Diastatic malt is that secret ingredient. It helps provide better taste and better browning. You only need 1-2 teaspoons for most recipes.
Always make sure your yeast is fresh (you can find freshness test online). Pay close attention to temperature when proofing yeast and when rising the loaves. Try to use un-chlorinated  water when proofing your yeast or when adding water to the recipe. Chlorine can be a little rough on those living organisms (after all, the reason it's in the water is to kill living organisms). If you have a Brita or other similar charcoal filter, that will completely take care of the problem. Most failures to rise can be traced to temperature (outside the 105° - 115° F recommended range)  or water that is hostile to yeast. Well water in some areas can be problematic -- I had pH of 4.7 in the well water in my first house before I installed a treatment system.


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## pushok2018

noboundaries said:


> You've baked a beeeeutiful loaf!


Thank you, Sir! That means a lot for me.....


johnmeyer said:


> hat bread looks amazing!


John,thank you for the good words!


johnmeyer said:


> Diastatic malt is that secret ingredient. It helps provide better taste and better browning. You only need 1-2 teaspoons for most recipes.


Ahha...... This is interesting, indeed... but looks like all the suppliers are out of this secret ingredient at this time but I will be searching anyway... Do you recommend to add this to any bread recipe or it works only for certain breads?
Yes, I used distilled water but also I have brita... I wasn't sure that brita in fact, remove all the chlorine from water... Good to know.
I left the dough to rise at room temperature at about 70F. I know this is not high enough and next time will use my oven with it's light "on".


johnmeyer said:


> Bread flour. Its higher gluten makes a big difference in results. With flour in short supply now, using AP will work, but the texture won't be quite as good


30# of bread flour is arriving this Sunday! Yey!


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## bregent

pushok2018 said:


> Do you recommend to add this to any bread recipe or it works only for certain breads?



It's certainly not appropriate for everything. Use depends on what you are making and how you are making it.  Malt is used for flavor, color and can also affect the fermentation process if it contains diastatic enzymes. The enzymes convert the starch in flour into simple sugars.  The baking flour I use already has malt in it - yours might also so check the label.  If you are just using it for flavor, then you don't need diastatic malt. 

For pizza, I use LDMP (low diastatic malt powder). This has a very low diastatic power, so it converts starches very slowly. That's good for long retarded fermentations. 
For bagels, I use liquid malt that I get from a homebrew shop. It's used for flavor and I also put it in the water the bagels are boiled in to help with color.


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## zwiller

WOW.  First bread?!?! That looks crazy good!  CONGRATS!


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## pushok2018

zwiller said:


> WOW. First bread?!?! That looks crazy good! CONGRATS!


Thank you, zwiller!


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## mneeley490

johnmeyer said:


> Diastatic malt. I didn't discover this one until recently. I remember my dad telling me, back in the 70s when he was consulting with a bakery, that they had a "secret" ingredient they used that wasn't available to the general public. Diastatic malt is that secret ingredient. It helps provide better taste and better browning. You only need 1-2 teaspoons for most recipes.




Is that a syrup or a powder?


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## johnmeyer

mneeley490 said:


> Is that a syrup or a powder?


Powder. 

This is what I bought. 

Hoosier Hill Farm Malt

At 1-2 teaspoons per recipe, it's a lifetime supply. I put the excess in a vacuum jar, with a oxygen absorption packet inside (something I learned from my prepper friends).


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## bregent

johnmeyer said:


> At 1-2 teaspoons per recipe, it's a lifetime supply. I put the excess in a vacuum jar, with a oxygen absorption packet inside (something I learned from my prepper friends).



That's a good way to store it - the freezer is another. But either way, it won't last a lifetime. The enzyme strength will start to decay after a few years.


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