# Tough pork butt (with graphs)



## Grilldaddys (Apr 2, 2020)

I've cooked bone in pork shoulder butt 3 times now- mostly because I'm trying to perfect temperature control, but I also want to learn the balance between time, temp and final product.  Anyway, today my cook had an unexpected surprise- even though I brought the meat temp to 204, it was still hard to shred... Like it was tough.  QUESTION: Is it because I cooked it faster at the higher temp?

8hrs, 51 mins - 5.0 lb bone-in pork butt @ 240 https://share.fireboard.io/F52F16
Outcome: very good

8hrs, 42 mins - 4.2 lb bone-in pork butt @ 275 https://share.fireboard.io/217ADB
Outcome: very good

4 hrs, 29 mins - 4.5 lb bone-in pork butt @ 320 https://share.fireboard.io/7D1E0B
Outcome: tough


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## Alphonse (Apr 2, 2020)

Did the bone pull out easily?


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## Grilldaddys (Apr 2, 2020)

Alphonse said:


> Did the bone pull out easily?



Yes- meat Came off the bone with zero problems


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## JCAP (Apr 2, 2020)

Hotter and faster cooks seem to be totally fine. How are you monitoring temps? Are your sure your probes are working?


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## Grilldaddys (Apr 2, 2020)

JCAP said:


> Hotter and faster cooks seem to be totally fine. How are you monitoring temps? Are your sure your probes are working?



Monitoring with the fireboard (less than 3 months old).   I verified the accuracy of the fireboard with boiling water after initial purchase.  I also checked the temp with an instant read that measured within 2 degrees of the fireboard- so I'm pretty certain probes are accurate.


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## sawhorseray (Apr 2, 2020)

Some kind of molecular miracle happens when you smoke a butt low and slow that tenderizes it and makes it much easier to pull and enjoy. Tho a butt is a very forgiving hunk of meat I believe that 320º is a bit too hot for a constant temp. There's never a rush when smoking, if you need more time start earlier. RAY


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 3, 2020)

A Pork Butt is made of different muscles. It is not unusual to have portions that fall apart and other muscle still be firm and tough. Additionally,  meat tenderness can vary a great deal. I've had Select Beef Rib,Roasts that melted in your mouth, and beautifully marbled Choice Roasts that were very tough...JJ


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## DanMcG (Apr 3, 2020)

Hey grilldaddys, On the 320° cook it looks like at the very end the IT goes from 206° to 196°.  I'm curious if you know why that happened.


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## schlotz (Apr 3, 2020)

Yup, each piece of meat can be different. I've yet to have one not easily pull apart when I actually follow my own notes (I screw it up if I don't  ).  5.5 hours @245º or until the IT is in the range of 165-170º, double wrap in foil and back in the smoker (or oven) and bump the temp to 300º for 2-3 hours until IT reaches 205º. Pull and rest in a cooler with towels for 2 hours.  Actual recipe is in the sig below.


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## Grilldaddys (Apr 3, 2020)

DanMcG said:


> Hey grilldaddys, On the 320° cook it looks like at the very end the IT goes from 206° to 196°.  I'm curious if you know why that happened.



I removed the probe to take the roast off the grill before I stopped the fireboard recording.


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## JCAP (Apr 3, 2020)

Grilldaddys said:


> Monitoring with the fireboard (less than 3 months old).   I verified the accuracy of the fireboard with boiling water after initial purchase.  I also checked the temp with an instant read that measured within 2 degrees of the fireboard- so I'm pretty certain probes are accurate.



Oh yea my bad about the monitoring question- duh! Good that your probes are accurate though. 

Maybe, like 

 schlotz
 suggested it would be a good idea to wrap these at those temps. Or maybe put them in a pan with a little moisture and cover it with foil.


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## bregent (Apr 3, 2020)

Grilldaddys said:


> Anyway, today my cook had an unexpected surprise- even though I brought the meat temp to 204, it was still hard to shred... Like it was tough. QUESTION: Is it because I cooked it faster at the higher temp?



Yes. Internal temperature does not determine when a chunk of meat is done.  Cooking at higher temperatures will typically result in meat that has a higher IT when done. That's because the meat will reach a higher IT temp faster, but will not have had enough time to get tender.


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## PAS (Apr 3, 2020)

I had the same problem last week with a 3.75# butt.  Internal temp 206 meat was hard to pull and chunky fatty meat.  I think butcher took a large butt and sliced into chunks.  The fat cap was on the side of the slab.


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## noboundaries (Apr 3, 2020)

I am biting my fingers at some of the inferences in this thread. One question, and it has nothing to do with the result you got. The answer will determine how I address your situation so you have a juicy, tender butt next time. What smoker are you using?


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## Grilldaddys (Apr 4, 2020)

noboundaries said:


> I am biting my fingers at some of the inferences in this thread. One question, and it has nothing to do with the result you got. The answer will determine how I address your situation so you have a juicy, tender butt next time. What smoker are you using?



22" Kamado (pit boss if it matters).  Had the ceramic heat shield so it was over indirect heat.


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## noboundaries (Apr 4, 2020)

Okay, got it. 

Before I started smoking meat a few years ago, I roasted pork butts in the oven at 350F. I did so for decades. I rubbed them, then started them in a covered roaster for a few hours before removing the cover until they were fork tender. They always came out juicy and delicious with a nice bark. 

Once I started smoking meat, I read about low n slow, believing something magic happened to the meat. It didn't. It just took longer. I've since smoked butts at temps from 225F to well over 350F and always got the juicy, tender result I wanted. How quickly I needed the butt to finish really drove my choice of chamber temp. So, throw chamber temp out the window for the reason you have a tough butt. 

What you need is experience in smoking butts since this was only your third. Technology is a fantastic enhancer for experience, but it can be a major distraction while trying to learn. So, since butt's can be had for a fairly inexpensive price per pound, try an experiment, and I'll bet you'll end up with a juicy, tender butt that you'll be proud to serve. Do the experiment when you're not up against a clock. 

Prep your butt like you always do. Fire up your Kamado in a way that it preheats slowly, like 2 hours or more. A quick fire is hard to control. A slow fire is easy to control. Let's pick a smoking temp of 275F just for experience' sake. 

Load your meat when your smoker stabilizes at 275F, and don't use any meat probes. Don't sweat the chamber temp drop when you load the meat. The fire is still burning at 275F and the meat is absorbing the available heat. Now, here's the experiment. WALK AWAY FOR ONE HOUR PER POUND. Don't peek, spray, wrap, or do anything to open the smoker. Don't make any chamber temp adjustments unless you see a 50F difference from 275F, then make them small. Due to physics and chemistry, a butt doesn't care about the chamber temp or the swings. It only matters to the clock. 

After 1 hour per pound has expired, probe the meat for tenderness. Take it's temp if you like, but learning the feel of the meat is your purpose. It is practically impossible to overcook a pork butt, but it is SOOOOOOO easy to undercook one, resulting in a tough, dry, chewy texture.

If you feel resistance when you probe, walk away for another hour. When the probe slides in easily, with little to no resistance, you're done. Take it's temp at that point, purely for information's sake. Then remove the butt, cover it, and let it rest for an hour or more. Shred and serve. 

Now you have an experience baseline for understanding what your technology is telling you. A butt LOVES to be forgotten about when it is smoking. Do it and yourself a favor, forget about the butt. Folks love to say "looking ain't cooking." And they're right. But thinking about a butt, the stall, unexpected meat temp drops, secondary and tertiary stalls, is the recipe for smoking insanity. Take all that out of the equation, and you'll be happier with the result. 

I have an obsessive analytical personality, using technology every chance I get. But some things just turn out better when you use technology to enhance raw experience and understanding, not create it. 

Ray


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## SecondHandSmoker (Apr 4, 2020)

Use internal temp and time per lb as a reference guide only.  
Probe tender is the preferred method for determining when a butt is done.


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## hardcookin (Apr 4, 2020)

I like panning my butts with a little apple juice around 170. Around 200 I check for probe tender,but usually don't pull them till the bone pulls out.
Panning the butts with apple juice gives me some juice to add to the pulled pork.
I usually smoke butts a case at a time.

Also excellent post by noboundaries


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