# Nonfat dry milk vs Soy Protein Concentrate?



## stainless (Dec 12, 2016)

I'm planning to make some Brats this weekend using Legg's Old Plantation seasonings.  The directions say use 12 oz nonfat dry milk.  I bought some soy protein a while back and was hoping I could substitute.  Would I be making a bad mistake?


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## mkriet (Dec 12, 2016)

I don't know the answer to your question,  but you can find NFDM at the grocery for cheap


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## dirtsailor2003 (Dec 12, 2016)

You can use soy protein concentrate as a binder and to help retain moisture. I think you use 2 teaspoons per pound of meat.


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## SmokinAl (Dec 13, 2016)

I think I would just go with the original recipe.

As said above NFDM is very cheap and readily available.

Al


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## wild west (Dec 13, 2016)

Stainless said:


> I'm planning to make some Brats this weekend using Legg's Old Plantation seasonings.  The directions say use 12 oz nonfat dry milk.  I bought some soy protein a while back and was hoping I could substitute.  Would I be making a bad mistake?


you can substitute. Soy protein  concentrate is used at a rate of 3% of the total weight of meat in your recipe. This would be 12oz to 25 lbs of meat.


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## daveomak (Dec 13, 2016)

Morning Stainless....
[h3]Water Binders[/h3]
Soy protein powders are added at around 2% as the larger amounts will affect the taste and flavor of the product. They bind water extremely well and cover fat particles with fine emulsion. This prevents fats from lumping together. Their ability to produce gel contributes to the increased firmness of the product. The sausage will be juicier, plumper and with less shrivelling but the amount of added soy protein concentrate should not exceed 3% otherwise it may impart a “beany” flavor to the product.

*Soy protein isolate* is a natural product that contains at least 90% protein and no other ingredients. Soy protein isolate is stronger and costlier of the two and can bind 5 parts of water.

*Soy protein concentrate*, available from most online distributors of sausage making supplies is a natural product that contains 70% protein plus other ingredients, for example, ash and some fibres. It binds 4 parts of water and it improves the texture of the sausage.

*Non fat dry milk* powder can bind water and is often used in making sausages, including fermented types. Dry milk powder contains 50% lactose (sugar) and is used in fermented sausages as a source of food for lactic acid producing bacteria. It also contains around 35% of protein, about 0.6 - 1% fat and may be considered a healthy high energy product. Dry milk powder greatly improves the taste of low fat sausages. Non fat dry milk powder is a good natural product and it does not affect the flavor of the product. It is added at about 3% and effectively binds water and emulsifies fats. Its action is very similar to that of soy protein concentrate.


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## wild west (Dec 13, 2016)

DaveOmak said:


> Morning Stainless....
> 
> [h3]Water Binders[/h3]
> 
> ...


Dave 
No disrespect intended so please don't take offense. Just wondering where your article is from. I took my info from Rytek Kutas book. He writes that the USDA'S max allowed amount of  soy protien concentrate or nfdmp is 3.5%. He also writes that neither will impart any flavour to the sausage until a rate of 12.5% (forgive me if that should be 12%. I'm at work at the moment and don't have the book in front of me). Also his recipe for Brats contains soy protein concentrate at a rate of 3%. I realise his book is old and some practices could be out of date.


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## daveomak (Dec 13, 2016)

Steve Marianski....  His website.....


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## daveomak (Dec 13, 2016)

wild west said:


> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> > Morning Stainless....
> ...


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## BGKYSmoker (Dec 13, 2016)

BINDERS - Also known as Soy, Soy Protein Concentrate, Soy Flour, Soy Grits, Soy Protein Isolate - All soy products have a high protein value.

This gives soy its binding capability, allowing you to add water (called added water) to your sausage for a moister product. These ingredients are used to prevent weight loss and shrinkage to products being processed in the smokehouse, by helping to retain the natural juices (called bound moisture) in the meat. This product also helps to bind the sausage together and can be used in meat products such as burgers to retain the natural juices from cooking out. Although not generally used in fresh sausages it may be added with good results.

You should use the following ratios: Smoked products Use binder up to 5% of the meat weight. Fresh products Use binder up to 3% of the meat weight. Sausage binder weighs out at about 4 oz. per cup so 4 cups would equal about one lb. Soy grits are used in patties and products like Hamburger Helper.

Soy protein concentrate is made from the refining process of soy beans These binders are ineffective for the most part of holding water and the natural juices, which are in the meat (called bound moister) at temperatures in excess of 165°F

POTOTO STARCH “BOOM” - A very high quality binder that will hold fat & has superior water holding capacity. Great for keeping very lean products moist during processing & cooking. Mix in this product after the cure, salt and seasonings have been added to meat mix.

NON-FAT DRY MILK - Milk powder has been used for years in sausage making. Acts as a binder by helping to retain the moisture of the meat. Although not highly effective as a binder, it can impart a creamier taste to some sausage products. You can use up to 12% (of the meat weight) without affecting the taste of the sausage. This product is good at hiding salt flavor in most sausage and is used in liver sausage, hot dogs and bologna.

FERMENTO - Use to produce a tangy taste in sausage such as summer, pepperoni and thuringer. The recommended level to start with is 3%, add up to 6% to produce a more tangy taste, but do not exceed 6% or the sausage will become mushy. This product does not require refrigeration.


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## hoity toit (Dec 13, 2016)

I use powdered buttermilk with good results. My 2 cents here.

HT


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## stainless (Dec 13, 2016)

Lot's of great information being provided.  I appreciate everyone giving their time and advice.


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## BGKYSmoker (Dec 13, 2016)

Hoity Toit said:


> I use powdered buttermilk with good results. My 2 cents here.
> 
> HT


Yes the Sako buttermilk powder in the stores is like fermento and way cheaper. I have even used regular cultured buttermilk.


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## dward51 (Dec 13, 2016)

Also if you use NFDM, some of the stuff from the grocery store is much courser than "sausage" grade NFDM you get from a spice company.  Chemically it's the same thing, just bigger flakes.  Simple fix is to run the grocery store version in the spice grinder to make a fine powder which seems to work better for me in sausage than the unground grocery store version.  Also measure by weight as ground to a fine powder, you have less air voids and will actually get more product in a volume measure.


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 20, 2018)

Like Lazarus....

So is NFDM always an option to replace Soy Protein in sausage recipes?  Is there a standard equivalency ratio to use regardless of sausage type for quick calculating?  I got Ryteks book last weekend and am about done with it and note that most of the recipes call for the SPC and only a few say NFDM,  but the fact that he calls for both makes me wonder if they are the same or if one or the other works better in certain products.   personally I think the cheap NFDM run through a food processor or other device to powder it will likely be my choice unless I hear that the Soy products have value that the NFDM cant provide.


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## daveomak (Feb 20, 2018)

*Soy protein concentrate* (about 60% protein), available from most online distributors of sausage making supplies is a natural product that contains around 60% protein and retains most of the soybean’s dietary fiber. SPC can bind 4 parts of water. However, soy concentrates do not form the real gel as they contain some of the insoluble fiber that prevents gel formation; they only form a paste. Before processing, soy protein concentrate is re-hydrated at a ratio of 1:3.

*Non fat dry milk* powder can bind water and is often used in making sausages, including fermented types. Dry milk powder contains 50% lactose (sugar) and is used in fermented sausages as a source of food for lactic acid producing bacteria. It also contains around 35% of protein, about 0.6 - 1% fat and may be considered a healthy high energy product. Dry milk powder greatly improves the taste of low fat sausages. Non fat dry milk powder is a good natural product and it does not affect the flavor of the product. It is added at about 3% and effectively binds water and emulsifies fats. Its action is very similar to that of soy protein concentrate.


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## nhurianek (Feb 21, 2018)

Little late to the party here but we switched to carrot fiber this year as a binder and to help retain moisture.  Ended up ordering a 15lb bag of it and so far everything we have used it in has come out amazing.  Summer sausage, hot links, brats, Italian...all moist and delicious. Walton's site claims it holds 26x its weight in moisture.


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## indaswamp (Feb 21, 2018)




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