# using cure with sausage



## captrichc (Apr 3, 2016)

ok so i have been doing a good amount of reading on making sausage and have been looking at recipes now for days. most are for fresh grilling etc. i would lie to make smoked sausage. no i have read that you need to add cure to the mix for smoking becuase of how long the cook process is. (correct me if i am wrong here). cure #1 for less than 2 weeks, and cure #2 for 2 weeks to serveral months on dry hanging. 

My question is if you are making the sausage and then smoking th next day or same day do you still need to add the cure#1 to the mix?
also, is there a general rule of thumb as to the amount you use of the cure if a recipe does not say to use it?


I will take what ever information i can get. thanks . i will be making chincken sausage in the AM to cook the same day so i am not worried about using cure this time.

thanks in avance.


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## jp61 (Apr 3, 2016)

captrichc said:


> ok so i have been doing a good amount of reading on making sausage and have been looking at recipes now for days. most are for fresh grilling etc. i would lie to make smoked sausage. no i have read that you need to add cure to the mix for smoking becuase of how long the cook process is. (correct me if i am wrong here). cure #1 for less than 2 weeks, and cure #2 for 2 weeks to serveral months on dry hanging.
> 
> My question is if you are making the sausage and then smoking th next day or same day do you still need to add the cure#1 to the mix?
> also, is there a general rule of thumb as to the amount you use of the cure if a recipe does not say to use it?
> ...


If you're hot smoking it, no, you don't need cure #1

Cold smoking, yes, you need it.

It's been awhile.... if I remember right it's 1 (one) level teaspoon per 5lbs of meat.


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## captrichc (Apr 3, 2016)

JP61 said:


> If you're hot smoking it, no, you don't need it cure #1
> Cold smoking, yes, you need it.
> It's been awhile.... if I remember right it's 1 (one) level teaspoon per 5lbs of meat.



what temp is considered hot smoking vs cold smoking?

and that is what i read 1 tsp per 5lb of meat


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## jp61 (Apr 3, 2016)

Here's one link of many on this site.


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## bfilipowski (Apr 3, 2016)

Even when hot smoking cure #1 will change the texture and bring that cured taste to the party. If you're trying to replicate a sausage you've eaten in the past, it might take using the cure just to achieve that certain taste or texture.

For instance, in my family I was raised eating fresh kielbasa. Usually grilled, but sometimes I've taken the raw links and smoked them at 225. This gives you the same result as feeling, but with the added smoke flavor. This does not even come close to replicating anything similar to what you purchase at the grocery store as smoked kielbasa. It takes the cure to do a few things, first that rosy pink colour sets, then the small bits of ground meat firm up a bit and lastly that fantastic umami richness of cured meats.

I love both types and usually make half with cute and half without cure so that I have a full supply at all times.

Flip


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## foamheart (Apr 3, 2016)

Bottom line, we all do it now simply for an added guarantee that the sausage we make will not get anyone sick. In 60+ years I am pretty sure I never bad anyone sick, not planning to take the chence now when we know how easy it is to protect it.

A friend who owns a meat company and makes sausages and has since before I was born, their family last years started doing it also. Its just cheap insurance. These folks are for real sausage and andouille makers, and before last year they cured the andouille but not the Cajun smoked sausage. Now they add it to their sausage.

We could dispute the need, but I am guessing that now for safety sake its pretty much and industry standard.

Thats why we, that includes me, now add a little cure to be sure. The same with jerky and other smoked meats.


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## grabber (Apr 4, 2016)

From what I've read, once over 170 degrees, you're also cooking not only smoking.  Over 170, the fat in the sausage starts to melt and break down.  Agree with ratio of 1 tsp per 5 lbs of meat.


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## daveomak (Apr 4, 2016)

Anything you put in the smoker should have cure #1 in it...    Botulism is the deadliest pathogen known to man....    It's not worth the risk to skip it...   150 ish Ppm is what to shoot for....   1 tsp. per 5#'s of meat or 1.1 grams per pound are the correct amounts to add......


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 4, 2016)

My understanding of cure 1 versus cure 2 has always been that Cure 1 is to be used in meats that are to be cooked and cured over a short period of time. Cure 2 is primarily used for non-cooked air dried meat products or meats that require a long curing time.

Here's a few good link that explains the types of cures when to use them and how. 

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/prague-powder-1-vs-prague-powder-2


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## grabber (Apr 4, 2016)

My brother and I got into a discussion on why to use cures, when people have used only salt for hundreds of years and not died.  I told him, why don't we still use horses and buggies, instead of planes and cars, the result is the same, we get to our destination.  We use cures because we've progressed to better methods thru modern science to make things better, quicker and safer.


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## daveomak (Apr 4, 2016)

edit...


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## foamheart (Apr 4, 2016)




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## BGKYSmoker (Apr 4, 2016)

I use cure #1 in all my smoked sausage because i have low starting temps of 130* I even use cure 1 when i make jerky. Cure #2 is for dry cure.


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## grabber (Apr 4, 2016)

Agreed.  At my age, the use of nitrates is the last thing that I have to worry about killing me.


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## LanceR (Apr 6, 2016)

Grabber said:


> My brother and I got into a discussion on why to use cures, when people have used only salt for hundreds of years and not died.


When folks want to make arguments similar to this one I like to point out that just 150 years ago as many as 1/3 of people died in infancy or early childhood,  life expectancy was as much as 20-40 years shorter than today and just 70 years ago a minor infection could kill you.  So why would we want to do things "the old way"?

Unless I know it's going from the fridge straight to the cooking process (whether smoke cooked or not) I use cures......

Lance


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## smokeymose (Apr 6, 2016)

I was just using cure when I was planning to smoke, but lately I've used it for "fresh" as well. I give sausage to co-workers and neighbors sometimes. I understand the nitrates go away with high temp cooking anyway, so why take the chance of making someone sick?


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## captrichc (Apr 12, 2016)

Ok so I want to start out by thanking each and everyone of you that replied. In the 16 posts I learned more than I did reading all over the internet. Now this may need like a foolish question but.... do you use cure #1 with chicken sausage? Or is it only used with meat such as everything but chicken. Lol

Thanks in advanced. 
PS. thankyou for all the links to the other pages here on this forum.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 12, 2016)

captrichc said:


> Ok so I want to start out by thanking each and everyone of you that replied. In the 16 posts I learned more than I did reading all over the internet. Now this may need like a foolish question but.... do you use cure #1 with chicken sausage? Or is it only used with meat such as everything but chicken. Lol
> 
> Thanks in advanced.
> PS. thankyou for all the links to the other pages here on this forum.



If you plan on makin the chicken sausage fresh and cooking at a high temp then you need no cure. If you plan on smoking it for and extended period of time at lower temps, where the meat won't reach 140 degrees IT in less than 4 hours then you need to use cure.


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## captrichc (Apr 13, 2016)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> If you plan on makin the chicken sausage fresh and cooking at a high temp then you need no cure. If you plan on smoking it for and extended period of time at lower temps, where the meat won't reach 140 degrees IT in less than 4 hours then you need to use cure.



Ok awesome. Same ratios as regular meat. 1 top per 5 lbs.


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## captrichc (Apr 13, 2016)

Also with the cure #1 it says to mix the powder with water...... but doesn't say how much water. What is everyone's method of applying the curr.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 13, 2016)

captrichc said:


> Also with the cure #1 it says to mix the powder with water...... but doesn't say how much water. What is everyone's method of applying the curr.



It doesn't take much water or liquid to dissolve the cure. Most recipes call for some sort of liquid to be added, soy, Worchestshire, water, etc. you can dissolve in those too. Dissolving it in a bit of liquid ensures you'll get an even cure. I usually mix it with a 1/4 cup of ice water if there is no other liquid being used.

Make sure the liquid is cold. 

Yes, one teaspoon of cure #1 per five pounds of meat.

Read this:

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts


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## atomicsmoke (Apr 13, 2016)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> It doesn't take much water or liquid to dissolve the cure. Most recipes call for some sort of liquid to be added, soy, Worchestshire, water, etc. you can dissolve in those too. Dissolving it in a bit of liquid ensures you'll get an even cure. I usually mix it with a 1/4 cup of ice water if there is no other liquid being used.
> 
> Make sure the liquid is cold.
> 
> ...



Use more water


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## Biggy1 (Apr 9, 2019)

Can I mix the cure#1with ac leggs #10 pork sausage seasoning?


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## indaswamp (Apr 9, 2019)

Biggy1 said:


> Can I mix the cure#1with ac leggs #10 pork sausage seasoning?


It is best to mix the cure #1 in with the meat after dissolving in water for a more even distribution so you do not have pockets of uncured meat in the mix which can harbor bad bacteria. 

I like mixing in the seasoning dry so the salt pulls out liquid from the meat forming a concentrated brine solution around the chunks of meat. This salt solution will pull out the salt soluble proteins that will form the bind for your sausages. Use the liquids to dissolve the cure #1....then mix that in separately.


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## Biggy1 (Apr 9, 2019)

If I  have 20lbs. of pork butt that would be 4 level teaspoons of #1in how much water?


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## PolishDeli (Apr 9, 2019)

My 2 cents:  I find it’s easiest to stick with metric, and use weights, not volumes.  That way I’m dealing with %’s and moving decimal places around instead of converting units and systems. Also, most kitchen scales are pretty accurate.  All of my measuring spoons on the other hand are noticeably different for one another.

2.5 g of cure #1 per 1000g meats.
(NaNO2 = 1million*(.0625*2.5g)/1000g) = 156ppm)

The amount of water isn’t critical for dissolving the cure.  In general, for sausages, I mix in an amount of water that equals 10% of the meat weight (remember 1g water = 1mL of water).

For 20pounds of pork butt:
20pounds = 9072g
Cure #1:  9072g*(2.5g/1000g) = 22.7g cure#1
Water:  0.1*9072g = 907.2g = 907.2mL


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## Biggy1 (Apr 9, 2019)

PolishDeli said:


> My 2 cents:  I find it’s easiest to stick with metric, and use weights, not volumes.  That way I’m dealing with %’s and moving decimal places around instead of converting units and systems. Also, most kitchen scales are pretty accurate.  All of my measuring spoons on the other hand are noticeably different for one another.
> 
> 2.5 g of cure #1 per 1000g meats.
> (NaNO2 = 1million*(.0625*2.5g)/1000g) = 156ppm)
> ...


Thanks PolishDeil for doing the formula for me because I didn't understand what too do,  this is my first try.


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## dernektambura (Apr 9, 2019)

There is no need to mix cure with water... mix cure with salt and salt meat... throw it in Ziploc bag and meat will release meat juice. . juice will mix with salt and meat will bath in own juices..  just keep flipping meat untill done curing....


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## indaswamp (Apr 9, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> There is no need to mix cure with water... mix cure with salt and salt meat... throw it in Ziploc bag and meat will release meat juice. . juice will mix with salt and meat will bath in own kuoces..  just keep flipping meat untill done curing....


that works for whole cuts, but for sausages it is best to mix the cure with cold water to dissolve is to make it easier to disperse thought the meat paste.


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## dernektambura (Apr 9, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> that works for whole cuts, but for sausages it is best to mix the cure with cold water to dissolve is to make it easier to disperse thought the meat paste.


I always buy whole cuts of meat, cut them in smaller sizes, cure them, grind them and make sausages. I never buy grinded meat cuz only butcher knows what he grind...


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## indaswamp (Apr 9, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I always buy whole cuts of meat, cut them in smaller sizes, cure them, grind them and make sausages. I never buy grinded meat cuz only butcher knows what he grind...


I too buy whole cuts and grind it myself. The smaller the chunks, the faster the cure and the more myosin is extracted when adding the salt. Protein extraction may not be of a concern for dry cured products, but for warm smoked sausages, or fresh sausages, protein extraction, properly done, gives a very good bind to the product.


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## chopsaw (Apr 9, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> There is no need to mix cure with water... mix cure with salt and salt meat... throw it in Ziploc bag and meat will release meat juice. . juice will mix with salt and meat will bath in own juices..  just keep flipping meat untill done curing....


Yup . I add mine to the salt and seasoning . Layer the seasoning and the meat then mix . Add liquid last as needed . 
Both ways work .


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