# Old fashion jerky help



## greggwllms (Dec 11, 2013)

Some years ago an old family friend showed my father and I how to make what he called jerky. It was delicious, and I've seen it at gun shows and an occasional meat market, but I can't find any recipes to follow to make it. The jerky was far from what I'd call normal jerky. First the meat was cut in very thick pieces, about 1 in square along the grain. I remember soaking it in a brine and then rolling it in a thick coat of black pepper. beyond that I don't remember anything about the proccess and would like to recreate the jerky. Does anyone know anything about making jerky this way?


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## donr (Dec 11, 2013)

Try searching for biltong.  It's usually about that size.


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## greggwllms (Dec 11, 2013)

This biltong seems pretty close, but the recipes really don't talk about the brine and how long to soak and how much salt to use. Maybe a better question would be, does anyone know the right way to salt cure meat for preservation. I think I can handle the rolling the meat in pepper and smoking it. Although smoking meat can be pretty tough, its a pain in the rear to keep lit!


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## jerky nut (Dec 11, 2013)

I have a recipe for biltong

2.2 lbs  beef (london Broil)

4tsp  salt (non iodized)

1 tsp cure#1 (pink cure)

2 tsp brown sugar

3tsp black pepper

5 tsp ground coriander

 soak the strips in   vinegar for 2 hours remove and pat dry. 

 mix all ingredients together

 sprinkle mixture evenly on both sides then rub into the meat.

 place strips in ziplock bag or sealed container 

 place container in your refrigerator for 12 hours

 remove from fridge and dry  like regular jerky ( air / dehydrator)


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## jerky nut (Dec 11, 2013)

I forgot to tell you that you don't smoke 
biltong and use apple cider vinegar .


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## dougmays (Dec 16, 2013)

I actually haven't tried Biltong yet...thanks Jerky Nut


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## jerky nut (Dec 16, 2013)

I've never made it my self, but several people say once you eat biltong you wont go back to jerky again. If I did that I'd have to change my screen name 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   I have a good jerky recipe for sliced meat and have a hard time not making it that way.


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## dougmays (Dec 16, 2013)

Same here with the jerky recipe but i'm always up for trying something new


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## mickey jay (Dec 25, 2013)

Isn't that too much Cure #1?  5lbs/1tsp is usually quoted.


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## jerky nut (Dec 25, 2013)

Mickey, it's being used in a dry rub so the values change.

mixing with ground meat-  1tsp.  /  5 Lbs. meat

Dry curing/ rub -  4 tsp. / 5 Lbs. Meat


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## daveomak (Dec 25, 2013)

Mickey Jay said:


> Isn't that too much Cure #1?  5lbs/1tsp is usually quoted.



4 tsp cure #1 per 5 #'s of meat is usually reserved for dry curing where the meat is hung in a cooler for months....  the cure is usually added in intervals..  divide all the seasonings, spices, salt and cure into 3 equal packets....  rub into the meat at 10-15 day intervals.... so this process takes 20-30 days or so...   As the nitrite dissipates, new nitrite is added to prevent bacterial spoilage along with the effects the salt has...  Then the meat continues to hang in the cooler for the designated time duration....   this is a specific method that most of us don't use..  and 625 Ppm nitrite is the max allowed for the above method....
For the smaller cuts of meat like jerky/biltong,  where the meat is less than 1" thick, and the curing time is less than 7 days, due to the thickness of the meat, I would stick with 1 tsp. / 5 #'s.....
Nitrite does dissipate over time, and temperatures above 130 ish degrees has a dissipating or reducing effect on the nitrite...   Don't know how much, how fast or any of those parameters....  Just read it somewhere and there were no specifics...

To help us all out here.....   The terminology used for curing meats etc. is, and can be, VERY confusing....  At times, it's difficult to tell which method is being discussed.....   At least this old brain has some difficulty, separating the various methods, when they are being discussed....

Dave


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## jerky nut (Dec 25, 2013)

Dave, with all due respect,  This is not a personal recipe . This is a recipe straight out of a very reputable book  home production of quality meats and sausages.  So I would stick to the recipe.

  1 tsp of cure # 1  per 2.2 Lbs is still less than the ratio of 4 tsp/ 5 Lbs for dry curing at the max of 625 ppm.


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## mickey jay (Dec 25, 2013)

Thanks for the info guys; I'll ponder this.  I've typically used a dry rub for my jerky and have been concerned about even distribution of cure/spices with hand mixing.


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## jerky nut (Dec 25, 2013)

I know what you mean Mickey, when you look at 1tsp. of cure going into 5 lbs of ground meat makes me wonder too. That's why we should let things cure over night, mix everything well by hand and give osmosis a chance to do the rest.


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## daveomak (Dec 25, 2013)

jerky nut said:


> Dave, with all due respect,  This is not a personal recipe . This is a recipe straight out of a very reputable book  home production of quality meats and sausages.  So I would stick to the recipe.
> 
> 1 tsp of cure # 1  per 2.2 Lbs is still less than the ratio of 4 tsp/ 5 Lbs for dry curing at the max of 625 ppm.




Jerky nut, morning......  Please open your book and read page 38 on Basic rules for applying dry cure....  "1 oz. Cure #1 per 25 #'s of meat is recommended....  that is 156 Ppm nitrite....  when curing times are short, up to 14 days....."  That is a reasonable facsimile or a "Quote" from the book you cited...

I'm not trying to be an a-hole here.....  It's just, "Providing accurate and safe information to our members" is very important to me....   I do make mistakes....  have before and probably will again....   

If I have misrepresented this discussion somehow, let me know and I will do some further research....  

I want you to be safe when using cures also....  this curing stuff is confusing at best...   I get confused trying to sort through the myriad of writings......

Dave


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## jerky nut (Dec 25, 2013)

And a Merry Christmas to you Dave,  I'm not trying to be a A hole either.  I agree this is a very confusing topic, especially when you can make jerky by  using all three process.  

( Marinating,comminuted and dry rub curing). each process involves differing amounts of cure#1 considering the process.  comminuted meat  1oz cure#1 or 5 tsp. per 25 Lbs . Yes you are right Dave, but also if you look at page 39 it states  Meat for dry curing.  4 oz cure #1 or 20 tsp. per 25#'s of meat.  The book goes on to say dry cured meat are prepared from a single piece of meat and the curing ingredients are rubbed into the surface of the meat.  You will see that the  maximum limit for dry cured products is 4 times more than comminuted or ground meat.


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## jerky nut (Dec 25, 2013)

FDA.png



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Kind of hard to see unless you click on it. USDA guidelines on Nitrites and how to calculate PPM.

Hope this clears things up a little.


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## blacktuskjerky (Dec 31, 2013)

625PPm is a lot of cure... No matter how you look at it.. IMO 

Happy holidays!


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## daveomak (Dec 31, 2013)

625 Ppm nitrite is totally unsafe for jerky and most processing we do as home meat curers...


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 31, 2013)

jerky nut,
Your definition of dry curing and the definition used in the manual (which isn't intended for home curing, buy-the-way) are completely different...it's a common mistake.
Folks must be very careful when using that guide because the definitions used within don't match commonly used definitions.
I started a thread relating to the confusion....
Confusing dry curing with dry curing.......http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124452/confusing-dry-curing-with-dry-curing
The dry cured limits in the guide are not to be used with jerky.
No more than 156 ppm nitrite should be used....actually...120ppm nitirite is more than enough because jerky is cured and dried so quickly.



~Martin


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes I understand what you are saying Digging Dog but their is some confusion here also maybe I can clear up or maybe I'm wrong wouldn't be the first time.  If you put 1 tea spoon of cure # 1 into five pounds of ground meat you have 156 ppm of nitrite in your product.  because you mixed it into the meat.

 Now take 1 tea spoon of cure #1 and put it on  5 lb bacon as a dry rub your ppm will reflect the number of days you allowed it to cure. The longer you let it cure the closer to 156 ppm you will get but you will never get to 156 ppm because all of the nitrite will not penetrate the meat, you will loose some to fat not allowing transfer, you will loose some to moisture coming out of the meat and dripping off taking Nitrite with it.   This is the reason for 4 times the amount of cure.  Even though it's 625 ppm laying on the surface by the time it makes it way into the meat and the curing process is finished you should be around 156 ppm

 I am in no way trying to harm or poison any one here. The use of nitrite is a safety concern to all of us I am just trying to interpret the guidelines laid out by the USDA. and this is my opinion.

 Dry cured  is the application of cure to the outside area of the product to be cured, ( no matter how long it is to be cured) it is the process. 

 Bitong can be as thick as a slab of bacon we are taking Biltong not jerky.

 Maybe some one here can get pops to give his opinion on this conversation.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jan 1, 2014)

jerky nut,
It doesn't work that way.
Read the entire manual.
You're breaking several rules.
There's absolutely NO reason to apply more than 156ppm nitrite to jerky.


~Martin


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm not breaking any rules!  This recipie is for BILTONG! not jerky. I didn't formulate the recipe Stanley Marianski did.  I read the entire manual can you please explain to me how it works then?


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

This is my resource for the term Dry Cured.













USDA cover.png



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Untitled.png



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 Also here is a very good read on the subject.  http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-making/curing/methods#dry-curing


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## blacktuskjerky (Jan 1, 2014)

For example. Health Canada requires by law that our commercial jerky products have 200PPM of nitrite added, if we are to use these products. With PPMs over 500 you would need to add Erythorbate or lots of lemon juice to try and make sure that it converts over. I don't know, food for thought, but it's always better to use less nitrite than more. It's really strong stuff! 

Happy New Years Smokers!!


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

If I were making Jerky yes I would use 1 teaspoon of cure #1 in my brine per 5 lbs of meat.  but this is biltong.













biltong8.jpg



__ jerky nut
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Bitong!  whole muscle meat cured using a dry cured method then air dried for 4 days or until desired hardness, then sliced into bite size pieces. This is not jerky.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jan 1, 2014)

Dried from 4 hours to 4 days.
The Marianski books are not without errors...I've pointed some of them out in various threads,
If you'd read the entire process inspector's handbook you'd know that there is a specific limit on residual nitrite in a finished product (that applies to any finished product.).
That in itself is proof that you can not just add a bunch of nitirte and expect it to be fine.
You have to stay within the limits.


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## daveomak (Jan 1, 2014)

jerky nut said:


> If I were making Jerky yes I would use 1 teaspoon of cure #1 in my brine per 5 lbs of meat.  but this is biltong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+++++++++++++++++++++

Did you make that biltong.......     Looks good......


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

No, I never tried Biltong. I agree it does look good. I just found this photo the other week.  Digging Dog Farm, yes that book has several mistakes just like 4 hours or four days as you mentioned, we both know you will not get a product that dry in under 4 days even using a biltong box.  Also their is no way to test the true PPM of nitrite in a product ( little guys like us) that is why everything is so questionable.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jan 1, 2014)

jerky nut said:


> Also their is no way to test the true PPM of nitrite in a product ( little guys like us) that is why everything is so questionable.



That's why it's essential to use a sensible amount of cure.




~Martin


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

While trying to stay above the minimum of 120ppm ( keep refrigerated products)  especially for a product that is air dried at room temperature.


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## grouse (Jan 1, 2014)

would the drying time be affected if you cold smoked it at 80-90 degrees.


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

Grouse I'm sure it would. you just air dry this meat at room temp so hanging in a cold smoker at 80 - 90 degrees would be the same but with the addition of smoke.   That's a good reason why I never tried it yet because it doesn't call for smoke.  I can't comprehend a dried meat product without a great smoky flavor.


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## grouse (Jan 1, 2014)

The reason i ask is. My last batch of jerky that i posted up  had about 10 pieces that were 1/2-3/4 of an inch thick.  My friend who i was smoking the meat for just through the end pieces in the bags he wanted me to process.  

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/154066/venison-jerky-in-the-smoker

I smoked them at 90* for 24 hours for my thinner jerky.  and about 32 for his, which were 3/8" thick, not the 3/16th I prefer.   Anywho, the thicker pieces of his turned out just like your photo.


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

yep that's pretty much how I make my dried beef for chipped beef and toast.  Looks the same way.


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## grouse (Jan 1, 2014)

I turned his 1/2-3/4 inch pieces into a stew.  Looking back after reading these several threads about biltong,  I am curious if how it would have turned out.  

I may have to try a run. and see.


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## pops6927 (Jan 1, 2014)

jerky nut said:


> Yes I understand what you are saying Digging Dog but their is some confusion here also maybe I can clear up or maybe I'm wrong wouldn't be the first time.  If you put 1 tea spoon of cure # 1 into five pounds of ground meat you have 156 ppm of nitrite in your product.  because you mixed it into the meat.
> 
> Now take 1 tea spoon of cure #1 and put it on  5 lb bacon as a dry rub your ppm will reflect the number of days you allowed it to cure. The longer you let it cure the closer to 156 ppm you will get but you will never get to 156 ppm because all of the nitrite will not penetrate the meat, you will loose some to fat not allowing transfer, you will loose some to moisture coming out of the meat and dripping off taking Nitrite with it.   This is the reason for 4 times the amount of cure.  Even though it's 625 ppm laying on the surface by the time it makes it way into the meat and the curing process is finished you should be around 156 ppm
> 
> ...


I apologize, but I'm a wet-curing guy.  You may want to get Bearcarver involved as he is much more informed on correct dry curing procedures.


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## blacktuskjerky (Jan 1, 2014)

I just asked a South African guy that makes Biltong here in BC commercially. He says he uses 1-1.5 tsp per 5# of meat. He also mentioned that the cure works from the outside in, so it's ok to use a little.  It can cure up to 7 days without issue. 

Hope that helps guys!


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## jerky nut (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks any ways Pops.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 2, 2014)

Pops6927 said:


> I apologize, but I'm a wet-curing guy.  You may want to get Bearcarver involved as he is much more informed on correct dry curing procedures.


I'm a little late for this party, but I'll give my two cents:

First of all, I usually use Tender Quick, however no matter which cure you use, you should not go over the recommended amount (from the manufacturer).

That would be 1 TBS of TQ per pound of whole meat, and 1 tsp of Cure #1 per 5 pounds of meat.

If there is a problem getting the product cured to the center, you should extend the curing time----Not increase the amount of cure.

To use more cure because some will not get into the meat, and some will drip off, and some will be left in the curing container (bag), would be to say that you know how much cure will be lost by these occurrences, and you are replacing that amount.

If you want to make sure you used enough curing time, after the curing time is up, cut a slice into the thickest point of the meat, and look at the internal color. If it is pink all the way to center, the cure got to the center. If there is a grayish brown color in the middle, the cure did not get to center. However if you used the amounts of cure I mentioned above, your problem is "not long enough in cure". Extend the curing time---Don't increase the amount of cure. 

Bear


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## jerky nut (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks Bearcarver the problem is what is considered dry cured and the amount of cure to use. someone was asking for old time jerky and after he described what it looked like I thought maybe it was biltong.  So I got a recipe out of Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages and posted it in this thread. the recipe called for 1tsp of cure #1 for 2.2 lbs. of meat and to be applied as a rub and cure for 12 hours in the fridge.  Now the questions started coming in about the amount of cure #1 being used since it was more than 1tsp/ 5 lbs of meat.  Now their is question regarding dry cure method and the 625 ppm limit set by FSIS  and if this is the reason for the higher level of cure #1/ lb of meat since biltong is never exposed to high temperature (156 deg.) and it is finished by drying at room temperature for up to 4 days..

Thanks

scott


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## Bearcarver (Jan 2, 2014)

Yes I read the earlier posts.

However my point is that readers that come to this thread should not go over the 1 tsp of cure #1 per 5 pounds, or the 1 TBS of TQ per pound, no matter what various books say. You can find old books that say to just use salt, but we don't recommend that here.

Bear


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## daveomak (Jan 2, 2014)

Jerkynut, afternoon....  I have that book also....  I attribute the 1 tsp to 2.2# of meat to a typo.....  should have read 1/2 tsp per 2.2 #'s   OR 1 tsp per 2.2 Kg...  either way, it is an error and those who know about the proper cure ratios to meat can catch it.... or know it was a typo.... or at least know it was unsafe or inaccurate or any or all of the above......  ground meat is ground meat and the cure rate doesn't vary...

That is why it is so important to get informed and totally knowledgeable on a hobby that can be dangerous....


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## jerky nut (Jan 2, 2014)

Okay, thank you all for your contribution to this thread.  I decided to make Biltong and I started a new thread on the subject with q view . We will see if this stuff is worth all the rage I have heard about. Here's the thread. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/155431/biltong-with-q-view


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## mickey jay (Jan 3, 2014)

Also, thank you guys for this discussion on cure ratios.  It was exactly the information I was looking for in this thread.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/129044/using-cure-1-in-jerky#post_1013083

I'm still concerned about equal distribution in a dry rub, but I've taken some advice and moved to a semi wet rub to give better coverage.  I find the mixing still obliterates the long pieces of jerky when you cut it across the grain.  Guess I'll just have to make more batches and experiment!


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