# Why is Franklin BBQ in austin so good?



## waytoodeep03

The line is like 2 hours for some brisket. I looked at the way Aaron Franklin makes his Brisket on youtube and it is very simple. Salt and pepper and smoke until it is tender. Yet people are lining out the door for this simple made brisket.

Is it the grade of brisket he is using? Does he use Wagyu or Prime, Choice or select?


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## hambone1950

I have no idea what grade of beef he uses , although I'm sure he gets better meat than we could buy. 
But I think the line is out the door just because you can't make meat like that at home I mean , most people can't ....he's got that huge pit , the post oak wood fire , the hours and hours of smoking time into it. You go there and they slice it up and pile it on the bread....you lay down your 8 or 10 bucks and you're in hog heaven.  I've cooked brisket on my WSM , and it's pretty good , but I'm not going to do that very often. But you can bet if franklins bbq was within walking distance of MY house , I'd be there once a month. Wait or no wait.


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## turnandburn

smoke it and they will come my friend...smoke it....and they will come!


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## redwood carlos

He stated that he uses a very good quality brisket, and that he does not pass the price on to his customers. When he made that statement you could tell by his facial expression it was some seriously good cut.


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## turnandburn

he uses black angus prime.


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## ps0303

So where does he make his money then?


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## redwood carlos

ps0303 said:


> So where does he make his money then?


Not sure I have ever heard anyone say Aaron Franklin was the wealthiest Brisket Smoker in the USA. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






In reality probably breaks even, or looses money in the brisket and makes it up on the PP, Ribs, Turkey and Sausage, along with the sauces he sells and TV appearances.


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## turnandburn

REDWOOD CARLOS said:


> Not sure I have ever heard anyone say Aaron Franklin was the wealthiest Brisket Smoker in the USA.
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> In reality probably breaks even, or looses money in the brisket and makes it up on the PP, Ribs, Turkey and Sausage, along with the sauces he sells and TV appearances.


says he sells out of brisket EVERYDAY. and has sold out of brisket everyday since its existence.


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## waytoodeep03

TurnandBurn said:


> smoke it and they will come my friend...smoke it....and they will come!





TurnandBurn said:


> says he sells out of brisket EVERYDAY. and has sold out of brisket everyday since its existence.


This is true especially in Texas. The hype, long lines and mysteriousness adds to this.  Texans love brisket like its the holy grail of meat


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## s2k9k

I'm sure his brisket is Awesome but the long lines are probably because he has made such a big name for himself by putting out a very quality product people will come from all over the country just to say they have eaten there!

Unlike Lady and Sons in Savannah. Paula Dean has made a big name for herself and to eat there you have to stand in line at 9am for 2 hours so you can get a number and come back in the afternoon and stand in line for 2 more hours just so you can eat some mediocre southern cooking.


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## turnandburn

waytoodeep03 said:


> This is true especially in Texas. The hype, long lines and mysteriousness adds to this.  Texans love brisket like its the holy grail of meat


yes sir...brisket all day everyday..when we say bbq in texas, we mean brisket..BEEF!  it IS the holy grail of meats. ribs, sausage n chicken are just side items...lmao!


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## michief

Man, I love living in Austin and Aaron's brisket is one of the top reasons. I make a mean brisket in several varieties and I just can't hit that kind of perfection, but he does it every dang day. He is one heck of a nice guy too. If he is there he is always happy to talk smoking meat with you.


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## dls1

TurnandBurn said:


> he uses black angus prime.


I've heard the same, and that his supplier is Creekstone Farms. Their 12-14 pound packer is available online for $99.99.

Also, during the latter part of the cook, he wraps the briskets in plain  brown butcher paper.

I've never purchased from Creekstone or tried the butcher paper method, but I know a couple competition teams that do both and their scores have risen dramatically.


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## turnandburn

dls1 said:


> I've heard the same, and that his supplier is Creekstone Farms. Their 12-14 pound packer is available online for $99.99.
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> Also, during the latter part of the cook, he wraps the briskets in plain  brown butcher paper.
> 
> I've never purchased from Creekstone or tried the butcher paper method, but I know a couple competition teams that do both and their scores have risen dramatically.



Yup creekstone is his supplier, I'm set on ordering a BBQ package. 1 big arse brisket and 3 tri tips for $170 or something like that....also if you look at some of Franklin bbq's photos they sure are some awesome views!


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## backwoods bbq

Lets see where to start. I wished the admins would make a drag and drop or highlighted section for replying with multiple quotes from other people. Ok, first Turn n Burn Thank you for correcting everyone about the brisket. BRISKET IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF BBQ! my 12 yr old second cousin can smoke a whole pig to near perfection with minimal practice but only the select few can master brisket. sorry Georgia, Carolinas, Tennessee. Texas BBQ is the best. Way to deep, if you were to try his brisket with "just salt, pepper and smoke" you would fall to your knees and shed a tear lol maybe. He uses brown butcher paper but mostly unbleached peach paper, no wax. Hambone, you said $8-$10 that's funny! I wished I could get out of that place for less than 15! Keep in mind, his brisket is $17.00lb ribs 15.00lb pulled pork 14.00lb turkey 14.00 lb and sausage 11.00 lb (also us Texans like to eat) Honestly just a combo sandwich here in Amarillo is $8.00! John is one of the pitmasters, he shows up late evening and starts the briskets/fires they currently have 5 pits (in the process of building another) Aaron is about to hire they go through on average 1500 lbs of BBQ per opening. 11am till sold out. The line as of recent count has exceeded 400 people which is why he has line attendants that count people get a rough estimate of how much meat they will order (Aaron tells them to round up because people always order more once they get to the counter) then they pass a marker to the estimated "last" person in line and tell people behind them that "Ya'll might be wasting your time, meat ends soon here (and points at the person)" I talked to my friend who said this past Saturday 7-27 he drove by and at 8am he stopped and counted almost 200 people waiting in line!  yea he uses Creekstone out of Arkansas city, KS whose meat is not only black angus prime (not actually the best tasting IMO, but definitely tied for first ...but the meat is supposedly all natural no hormones no probiotics, etc, (you know how those organic liberal Austinites are everything organic and natural) The fat on these briskets (according to Franklin in Texas Monthly interview) apparently renders better than a typical brisket. The fat will actually render better yet will take almost twice as long to smoke. The result is that "velvet" texture on a brisket most people in the world have no clue what is about. Its like heaven in your mouth. Keeping the German/Czech Central texas style is what its all about salt, pepper. low and slow smoke, steady heat, carving the brisket in front of you asking which you prefer, lean, super lean, moist, super moist, cutters choice, brisket tip, sugar cookies, burnt ends, etc. Given the fact that he is located in downtown Austin, (expensive) he buys very expensive cuts of beef, throws away the trimmings, Yes, you heard right throws away all his beef fat, beef meat from trimmings, pork skirting, and rib trimmings. (his sausage is not made in house but is made to his specs by a local market) I would say his BBQ is adequately priced for what you get (just don't go out there and expect to spend 8-10$ you may only get a few sides piece of bread and a big red! I did read another interview in texas monthly about aaron franklin going to a slaughter house to learn more about how they cut the briskets off the cow and it made him more aware of how precious the meat is so now he is considering making sausage in house with his trimmings. He also has a few beers there in Austin ya'll should check out!


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## s2k9k

All you have to do is click the "Multi" button on each of the posts you want to quote, then click "Quote".


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## backwoods bbq

cool, thanks! I had no idea.


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## turnandburn

S2K9K said:


> All you have to do is click the "Multi" button on each of the posts you want to quote, then click "Quote".


not always true, some of us are having problems with Internet explorer and chrome still. so no multi quotes, or emoticons. just plain txt single quotes.


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## flash

So, how does he compare to Salt Lick BBQ ?? Several of my friends have raved about this place. Not as expensive either.

View media item 243613


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## hambone1950

Flash said:


> So, how does he compare to Salt Lick BBQ ?? Several of my friends have raved about this place. Not as expensive either.
> 
> View media item 243613



This place looks amazing. I've seen profiles on several food shows. I would go here in a heartbeat . :sausage:


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## michief

Salt lick is very good but IMHO way overrated, it is the tourist BBQ place, the Kayz deli of Texas if you will. It is also roasted on a commercial system and tossed onto the front direct heat system for an hour or two after to pick up some smoke. That said it is very good food and I go to their Driftwood location several times a year. There are a number of Central Texas places that are better however.


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## backwoods bbq

I agree with mischief, and there mustard base sauce is nothing to write home about. All in all it is decent for Austin the silver lining is that its a ways out of Austin towards wine country so you can take your woman wine tasting before or after yall go "Q tasting"


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## waytoodeep03

Backwoods BBQ said:


> Lets see where to start. I wished the admins would make a drag and drop or highlighted section for replying with multiple quotes from other people. Ok, first Turn n Burn Thank you for correcting everyone about the brisket. BRISKET IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF BBQ! my 12 yr old second cousin can smoke a whole pig to near perfection with minimal practice but only the select few can master brisket. sorry Georgia, Carolinas, Tennessee. Texas BBQ is the best. Way to deep, if you were to try his brisket with "just salt, pepper and smoke" you would fall to your knees and shed a tear lol maybe. He uses brown butcher paper but mostly unbleached peach paper, no wax. Hambone, you said $8-$10 that's funny! I wished I could get out of that place for less than 15! Keep in mind, his brisket is $17.00lb ribs 15.00lb pulled pork 14.00lb turkey 14.00 lb and sausage 11.00 lb (also us Texans like to eat) Honestly just a combo sandwich here in Amarillo is $8.00! John is one of the pitmasters, he shows up late evening and starts the briskets/fires they currently have 5 pits (in the process of building another) Aaron is about to hire they go through on average 1500 lbs of BBQ per opening. 11am till sold out. The line as of recent count has exceeded 400 people which is why he has line attendants that count people get a rough estimate of how much meat they will order (Aaron tells them to round up because people always order more once they get to the counter) then they pass a marker to the estimated "last" person in line and tell people behind them that "Ya'll might be wasting your time, meat ends soon here (and points at the person)" I talked to my friend who said this past Saturday 7-27 he drove by and at 8am he stopped and counted almost 200 people waiting in line!  yea he uses Creekstone out of Arkansas city, KS whose meat is not only black angus prime (not actually the best tasting IMO, but definitely tied for first ...but the meat is supposedly all natural no hormones no probiotics, etc, (you know how those organic liberal Austinites are everything organic and natural) The fat on these briskets (according to Franklin in Texas Monthly interview) apparently renders better than a typical brisket. The fat will actually render better yet will take almost twice as long to smoke. The result is that "velvet" texture on a brisket most people in the world have no clue what is about. Its like heaven in your mouth. Keeping the German/Czech Central texas style is what its all about salt, pepper. low and slow smoke, steady heat, carving the brisket in front of you asking which you prefer, lean, super lean, moist, super moist, cutters choice, brisket tip, sugar cookies, burnt ends, etc. Given the fact that he is located in downtown Austin, (expensive) he buys very expensive cuts of beef, throws away the trimmings, Yes, you heard right throws away all his beef fat, beef meat from trimmings, pork skirting, and rib trimmings. (his sausage is not made in house but is made to his specs by a local market) I would say his BBQ is adequately priced for what you get (just don't go out there and expect to spend 8-10$ you may only get a few sides piece of bread and a big red! I did read another interview in texas monthly about aaron franklin going to a slaughter house to learn more about how they cut the briskets off the cow and it made him more aware of how precious the meat is so now he is considering making sausage in house with his trimmings. He also has a few beers there in Austin ya'll should check out!


Lol @ the wall of text.

Thanks for the information. So now that I know that its the cut of his meat that is drawing in people. How would this cut(Black angus prime) compare to a well marbled wagyu brisket from srf or strube?


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## michief

Don't kid yourself into thinking it is the cut of brisket, unless you have mastered brisket to a very high level you're probably going to waste your money. Aaron could cook far lower quality cuts and it would be damn near as good. In fact he had a problem at one point and had to go to choice cuts for a period because of availability and nothing seemed to change, it was still amazing.


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## backwoods bbq

I agree with mischief. It's all about how you trim it. If you trim to much it gets dry if you don't trim enough you have fat left over which is unappealable and customers complain you are selling them fat and not beef.


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## turnandburn

yes, i agree its all about how you prep it, and your technique  and experience thats going to determine the outcome. you can get a strube, or any wagyu for that matter and not know anything about it and ruin it the same as you would a choice, select or prime cut. i guarantee any cut of meat will turn to leather if you dont know what youre doing...lol.


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## michief

waytoodeep03 said:


> Lol @ the wall of text.
> 
> Thanks for the information. So now that I know that its the cut of his meat that is drawing in people. How would this cut(Black angus prime) compare to a well marbled wagyu brisket from srf or strube?


Should have discussed your question too. The Black Angus choice is what I try and get a hold of when my local stores have it at a decent price. Prime would be great but I don't know if you would notice a difference between them.


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## backwoods bbq

IMEO, there is no difference in black angus choice and prime beef. Then again, I also realize that black angus beef is NOT the best tasting beef. Black Angus was advertised easily by the USDA to boost sales and get a prime price for a cut of beef. There are a few genetically crossed cows that will make black angus taste like pork in comparison. (Ask any rancher, or steer hand.) I have never bought wagyu or smoked it for that matter but I would bet my families land that I can make choice taste just as good!


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## backwoods bbq

Easily was meant to be heavily


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## hambone1950

Backwoods BBQ said:


> . Hambone, you said $8-$10 that's funny! I wished I could get out of that place for less than 15!
> Honestly just a combo sandwich here in Amarillo is $8.00!   ya'll should check out!



Duly noted brother! I'll bring a 50 when I go!  :sausage:


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## radio

I personally think simple is better.  You get all these wannabe BBQ joints coming up with all sorts of concoctions to slather on the Q and you end up tasting the sauce, mop, rub or whatever they overload it with instead of the beef.  A good brisket doesn't need more than some salt and pepper to be fantastic. 

Best Brisket I ever had was at Slick's BBQ in Muscogee, Ok back in the 80's.  He was an old Black man that converted a rundown house beside the road to BBQ joint and served it on wax paper and those tacky rattan paper plate holders.  The old guy had tour buses detour miles out of the way to eat there!


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## backwoods bbq

Yep radio. Salt and pepper is the Texan way to go (also the best way to go) if done right s&p will have people begging for more!


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## chef jimmyj

Arron Franklin has great technique, a ton of experience getting it done and uses great meat...BUT...Like Paula Dean, heard lots of people say the food is not very good, the Neely's BBQ Restaurants Bobby Flay's restaurants, Emeril's Restaurants and countless others that have been on DDD, A LOT of success comes from TV exposure! Various forums talk about pitmasters that has been on BBQ Pitmasters having seen a major increase in business from the exposure. Flanklin's has been on several different shows on Foodnetwork, Travel Channel and the Cooking Channel. That much exposure changes your business from locals to national and sometimes international customers. There are people that set there vacation travel plans around hitting DDD restaurants and well known BBQ Joints. I wish Mr. Franklin and all the others continued success. If I ever have another restaurant I will post a sign..." If you are not Happy tell ME! If you love the food tell FOODNETWORK, Travel Channel, The Cooking Channel and GUY FIERRI! "...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






...JJ


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## pthefree

Aaron is the nicest person too.


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## preacher238

Interesting Aaron Franklin tidbit...he is married to my Uncle's granddaughter.  And I have STILL never met him, not eaten at his place! 

LOL......although one of these days, I will!!!


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## bama bbq

I think it's supply and demand. There's a shortage of supply which increases demand. He runs out so people learn to come early and stand in line. When he runs out he turns people away creating more demand. Marketing plays a significant role. Exposure on TV and on the cover of TX Monthly is key.


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## madjack

When did/where did he make a statement as to meat grade? Tex Monthly?
Thanks.


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## madjack

Says?
Just wondering myself what grade he uses. One would
Think Prime Angus.
Did he state this somewhere?
Thanks.


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## toekneemac

Franklin uses upper choice, if he can get it.  I read that online and emailed him once before and he told me the same thing.

See the link below and scroll to the bottom.  The pyrimd is what franklin replied with to my email inquiry.

https://store.creekstonefarms.com/


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## craigduf

On his videp he did for a local PBS show you can see the brisket pack showing CHOICE it was a super show all video and a wonderful serie  s he did.


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## denverbri69

I have enjoyed reading this topic/thread. My wife is a UT Austin alum and she took me to Austin to see a part of her history. We did a BBQ tour of the great epitomes in and around the area. We hit Kreuz's, Smitty's, The Salt Lick, Black's and some other small places in Lueling and Lockhart areas. My first impression was that a Yankee such as myself (I live in Denver now) should have familiarized myself with the local BBQ lexicon. These are high volume places and the people taking your order are none to please to slow down and answer questions about the difference between moist and super moist, candy or burnt ends. It was very muck like the SNL skirt: Cheesebooger, cheesebooger, coke no pepsi, NEXT. By the second place on our BBQ tour I was able to place an order without cowering. LOL! 

As we would sit with our butcher papers (we ordered enough food for 8+ people and it was just the two of us) in front of us, I couldn't help but to think that something in the taste profile was 'strange'. It wasn't until we got to the our 3rd place that I asked if I could take some pictures of their pits. Since lunchtime was winding down they let me into the back. While taking pics and striking up a chat with the pit master I learned that all of the joints in this part of Texas used post oak. I am not an export on woods and I don't know the difference between post oak from red oak, but it dawned on me the 'strange' flavor must have been the post oak. I mean everything about each place was perfect except for the 'strange' flavor. As a CBJ I have never tasted that flavor since that tour. I assume if you grew up with smoking over post oak you appreciate the flavor, but as for me, I would have to say it's not my preference in flavors. Now this is not to say, you should not go to Austin and replicate my tour. Contrarily, I would highly recommend it. It was a blast, the food was perfectly rubbed and prepared and the folks in the dining room were a great selection of local color. An unforgettable experience.


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## daricksta

waytoodeep03 said:


> The line is like 2 hours for some brisket. I looked at the way Aaron Franklin makes his Brisket on youtube and it is very simple. Salt and pepper and smoke until it is tender. Yet people are lining out the door for this simple made brisket.
> 
> Is it the grade of brisket he is using? Does he use Wagyu or Prime, Choice or select?
> 
> This is what amazes me about Aaron Franklin. No fancy proprietary rubs or BBQ sauces, just salt and pepper. I think he also uses hickory wood, but I can't recall. If it's good enough to make people stand in line for 2 hours, I'm going to make smoke it that way at home. And this simple brisket got him judging jobs on various BBQ competition shows.


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## geerock

To those that like to add 14 different ingredients to their rubs, inject 4 different liquids at various times, layer 3 different smoke flavors, wrap in foil part way thru the smoke, hire a priest to stand over the meat while it rests, and have your wives dance naked in front of the brisket as you unwrap it...... here is the simple way to smoke and let the meat be the star.  Good beef, salt and pepper, oak wood smoked.  Eat and enjoy.  Nothing too magic about it.
and I guarantee ol' Aaron ain't losing money on brisket at the price he pays and the volume he does.


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## gary s

*Here is an email I received from Franklin BBQ about their Beef --------*

Thanks Gary, 

We will have our online store up and running in a few weeks, if you don't mind checking back soon. 

If you are ever in Austin, please come visit us. 

*P.S> We do not serve "grass fed" beef, but instead for the majority of their lives the Black Angus cattle graze on lush pasture land throughout the mid-west. Prior to processing each animal is feed a high quality corn-based feed ration that enhances meat tenderness and flavor. The beef contains no growth hormones or antibiotics.*

*Thanks!*

*Aaron *

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Gary S


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## bigtexun

I live in Austin, and I have sampled some of the best that is around here (mostly not IN Austin proper), but I am /not/ going to stand in line for two hours, or make an appointment two months in advance to try Franklins.  My brisket at home is as good or better as the best that I have tried, so other than being curious, I don't really have a strong desire to invest the time standing in line.  There are a lot of "secrets" to good brisket, but the real secret is to learn to use your particular smoker, and to learn how to be consistent, and to understand the chemistry of the meat.  Salt, pepper and oak are the main things I add to the meat, though I have occasionally been known to use a Cajun style rub as well, but most of the flavor comes from the meat, with everything else just adding to the nuance.  The other flavor add-ons can make it taste a little different, but it is the chemistry in the cooking that makes it good or not.  You need a good bark, and you need to reach and hold the temperature where the collagen fibers break down, and you need to do it over time without drying it out, and the other flavors you add are just spice. 

But you can't just put out some instructions that fits every situation, I have found that there are a lot of localized variables ranging from the way the smoker works, to the attentiveness and skills of the cook.  And the origins and prep of the meat is another factor.  So many of the guides I have seen seem to leave out enough of the variables to just not be complete.

But I'm not saying it is easy.  But for the people reading this, I'm a little surprised to see talk about going to a restaurant...  But talking about how to make brisket is sort of like talking politics, I'm sure someone will find something colorful to say... go ahead, I can take it... ;)

My favorite place in the Austin area was Louie Mueller's before they had the pit fire.  They sold out every day too, but the line was only 10 minutes long, not two hours...  Their brisket was pretty good (mine is better most of the time *I* think), but I /really/ liked their beef ribs...  I can't find ribs like that for sale, they looked like dinosaur ribs, one rib would feed three people (or one of me).  They had a bbq pit that had 54 years accumulation of oak smoke seasoning built up, and one day it had a grease fire.  As I recall, they managed to put the fire out the first time it happened, but a few days later it caught fire again, but this time it was a total loss...  they lost their original 1959 pit.  I guess what happened is something went wrong with how the grease drippings were being channeled away from the meat, and after the first fire they didn't do a root cause analysis, so it happened again.  You pack a half-ton of beef fat into a brick box, start a fire, and loose control of where the fat drips, and you get too much fire!  They had a total of 4 pits, so it didn't shut them down, and it was a year ago, so they have recovered by now...  But I stayed away because it is a long drive for the risk of showing up and finding out they have sold out...  And that risk went up with all of the publicity, and reduced pit space.  If you have good bbq, you can only sell as much as you can cook.  The last person I sent out there didn't get any food because they were out by the time he got there.   It's an hour drive from the office, 30 minutes from home... I'd just as soon thaw out a package of my own tender morsels from the freezer.... if I have any.  It's just me and my wife, so I usually get to freeze a bunch of brisket every time I cook one.

I'm hungry...


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## gary s

Personally  I like my brisket best, 40 years of smoking, I fix it like I like. Lots of good brisket out there, everybody's taste is a little different. I am not into waiting in line, let a lone for 2 plus hours, When I emailed Arron, I was curious what type of meat he was using, I did locate the same type brisket not to far from me But I am not paying 3 times as much for a brisket. I'll probably just stick to Sam's, I have had good luck with their meat.

Gary


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## jeepdiver

Hambone1950 said:


> I have no idea what grade of beef he uses , although I'm sure he gets better meat than we could buy.
> But I think the line is out the door just because you can't make meat like that at home I mean , most people can't ....he's got that huge pit , the post oak wood fire , the hours and hours of smoking time into it. You go there and they slice it up and pile it on the bread....you lay down your 8 or 10 bucks and you're in hog heaven.  I've cooked brisket on my WSM , and it's pretty good , but I'm not going to do that very often. But you can bet if franklins bbq was within walking distance of MY house , I'd be there once a month. Wait or no wait.



Just saw this post for the first time and while months old this is dead on.. I love brisket.  Use to do it a lot in Virginia.   Moved to CO 4 years ago and have done it once because I have a really good bbq place down the street.   Ill do a few more this year since I got my pellet grill this year but why spend hours and $$$ when you can buy almost as good for cheap


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## larryb

from what it shows on the TV advertisements, he doesn't WRAP.  i tried that on a port butt and got great bark in my MES.  did wrap after it was done.  so are we making a mistake by wrapping before the meat reaches temp?


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## redwood carlos

He wraps in butcher paper.


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## gary s

JeepDiver ------- Personal Satisfaction  and the joy of smoking  for me anyway

LarryB  -----  most BBQ joints that have a high volume don't wrap, Franklin's has several pits which are long they move their brisket (all meat) to the cooler end at some point.  Franklin has a youtub video (in fact several) showing him doing brisket and wrapping it, using butcher paper, which I have been doing the last couple of years with excellent results.

Gary


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## diesel

I just finished watching all of his videos on the brisket.  I actually learned a bit.  I was cutting the tip incorrectly, wasn't aware about turning it sideways and then slicing.  Gonna try that next time.  I am also going to pickup some butcher paper and try that wrap.  Butcher paper is a lot cheaper than foil that is for sure.  I usually don't wrap at all but my partner in crime likes to pan and tent with a little apple juice.  I can take it or leave it that way.   Another thing that was talked about in this thread was how he throws away all of the scraps.  I can say that I don't trim the brisket as well as he did but what I do trim I lay back on top of the meat for most of the cooking process.  Well, not always lay the trimmings on top but if I have room I will put them on the grate above.

I wouldn't wait in line for 2 hours unless I had access to beer and friends.  Then maybe ..just maybe.

Aaron.


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## bigtexun

I don't wrap at all, I've tried it, and on some direct-fire pits (not a smoker) where I don't feel in control of the temperature at the meat surface that might help regulate the temp so you can at least get an edible brisket off of a grill not meant to be a smoker...  But on a properly set-up smoker, you shouldn't have to wrap.  I've had cases where I did wrap on a smoker, and it caused me to loose the bark...  the bark got moist and lost adhesion to the meat, came off in the foil, on the cutting board, etc...    The meat was good still, but it wasn't "right".  So if you have a good low-and-slow smoker, there should be no need for wrapping.

Yeah, cutting is a /very/ important part of it as well.  Many places cut the tip and the flat together, and one or both sides seems even tougher than they start out when you do that.  What I do is separate the tip from the flat, and slice each at a 90* angle from the grain with a very sharp knife.  The meat will want to shred, so you have to develop a technique to hold it while slicing.  I've been thinking of making a cutting board with a short "rip fence" to help that so I'm not needing three hands, but I usually manage with my big hands.  Then after making a slice, I pick it up carefully with the blade of the knife, because my brisket chews itself, and the slice will fail to make it to the plate whole otherwise. 

I've got a nice Smith's precision diamond hone set that I will sharpen my knife with as the brisket cooks, having a large razor blade to carve your brisket with will help give good cuts when the meat wants to just fall apart on the spot.

My wife loves brisket, and hates potroast... so the couple times I cooked an indoor brisket in the jewish holiday style, she avoided it...  so the whole pan and tent with juices and the like...  that just isn't happening in this Texan's house...  Not any more anyway.

What I really want to try is a ribeye roast, in the smoker brisket style.  Before I got into smoking, we had a couple years when for some inexplicable reason ribeyes and ribeye roasts were being sold at brisket prices when they went on sale.  I never figured out whet happened in the meat industry to cause the glut in ribeyes, but man that made some of the best potroast I have ever made, I can't imagine what it would do if cooked like a brisket in a smoker.  Probably have to smoke it a good 30 hours...  have to be careful on the grate, the meat might just melt through and disappear...

Back before I knew how to properly smoke a brisket, the popular cooking tool around here was the 55 gallon drum grill.  It had crappy fire control, crappy temperature control, but you could produce a good brisket if you smoked it for 3 or 4 hours on the grill, and finished it for 45 minutes in a 350* oven right before serving time.  It is cheating I know, and you can call me names if you want...  But I was 18 at the time, young and stupid... but eating a rushed brisket that wasn't too bad...


----------



## coast2coast

geerock said:


> and have your wives dance naked in front of the brisket as you unwrap it......


I need to try this technique!


----------



## bigtexun

Does it get better the more wives that are used?  But what if you know better than to wrap it in the first place?  I guess the wives have to dance naked the whole time it is cooking then.... ;)

Sounds like a paaaaarty!


----------



## geerock

I'm talking about the wrap/rest AFTER the cook.  I never wrap part way into the smoke.  Imagine having to watch the ol' lady dancing naked for 12 hours or more?  We'd both be dead..... her from dancing, me from watching.


----------



## daricksta

geerock said:


> To those that like to add 14 different ingredients to their rubs, inject 4 different liquids at various times, layer 3 different smoke flavors, wrap in foil part way thru the smoke, hire a priest to stand over the meat while it rests, and have your wives dance naked in front of the brisket as you unwrap it...... here is the simple way to smoke and let the meat be the star. Good beef, salt and pepper, oak wood smoked. Eat and enjoy. Nothing too magic about it.
> and I guarantee ol' Aaron ain't losing money on brisket at the price he pays and the volume he does.


God, I love what you wrote, geerock!


----------



## gary s

A Rib Eye Roll won't take that long. Brisket takes a long time because it is a tough piece of meat with lots of connective tissue, Rib eye on the other hand should be a tender piece of meat that would not require to much time in the smoker. Now depending on how you like your steak, is kinda how you want to do your Rib Eye roll, Just think of it as smoked Prim Rib AAAAHHHHHHH,  I like mine rare, maybe even medium rare but no more than that. Let us know how it turns out, and With Pictures!!!!


----------



## mickhlr

Great post...with some great feedback.  Thanks everyone!

I guess most of us Texans think the same way when it comes to BBQ.  Personally, I'm a newbie to smoking with a stick burner...and it's a cheap one at that.  Wish I could afford a bad-boy, but I bought a $500 Old Country Wrangler at Academy last summer, just to try, as my old large GSM gas smoker had bit the dust.  And, I'm getting better and better at smoking meat as I learn how to use the stick-burner...but the main thing is it's FUN!  Some of the brisket and ribs I've smoked have been amazing, to me anyway.  In fact, after not particularly being good at smoking brisket for years, the first brisket I smoked on this new smoker last year was the best one I ever smoked.  And, I do have to say that I watched all of Aaron Franklin's brisket videos before I did it.  And, I tried buying hickory, pecan, mesquite wood...and thought they were all OK.  But, finally tried splitting some of my fireplace wood, which is, of course, post oak...as it's so plentiful here in central Texas.  Finally, I stopped even splitting it...and just use the same stack for my fireplace and smoker.  You can't beat it, and the price is great!  The fun to me is playing with different rubs, smoking temps, and meats.  But, being a native Texan, brisket is what I love.  And, I love the challenge of smoking a damn good brisket...and I concentrate on the burnt ends, as they are what I really love!

Backwoods BBQ, outstanding post.  As I'm retired Air Force and have eaten BBQ all over the world, I agree Texas BBQ for my taste is by-far the best.  Brisket IS the Holy Grail of BBQ.  And, great info on Franklins.  Thanks!

Michief, I agree totally with all your input...right on the money.  I think Salt Lick is a novelty, but a little over-rated as well.  But, it is a fun place to go with a group.

gary s, I agree with you as well...I'm not waiting in line for anybody's brisket...period.  I'd rather spend that time watching mine, BSing, and enjoying a few adult beverages.  I've had no problems with Sam's brisket as well.  I see you're pretty close to me as well, we're about 30 miles north of Tyler at Holly Lake Ranch.

bigtexun, absolutely...I'm curious as well.  But, when you like your own brisket, why stand in line for someone else's?  And, I agree, smoking a good brisket is not easy...but ain't it fun???


----------



## urbotrimmm

Trim it rub it give it some love smoke it for 6 hrs wrap it and finish at 195-200.  Mmmmmmmmm I sell out EVERY time I vend.  Good brisket is good brisket...oh and only prime


----------



## bugz13

His brisket really is the Holy Grail of BBQ. I've been smoking brisket for over 25 years and have been eating it all over the country for much longer than that... Aaron's brisket is the best that I've ever had... but I'm working on it!


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

S2K9K said:


> I'm sure his brisket is Awesome but the long lines are probably because he has made such a big name for himself by putting out a very quality product people will come from all over the country just to say they have eaten there!
> 
> Unlike Lady and Sons in Savannah. Paula Dean has made a big name for herself and to eat there you have to stand in line at 9am for 2 hours so you can get a number and come back in the afternoon and stand in line for 2 more hours just so you can eat some mediocre southern cooking.


..........and it is mediocre. I love P.D. as a tv cook, but her resteraunt was very plain.  Canned veggies in the sides.

I eat canned veggies most nights of the week, but that is not what I expect when I go there.


----------



## magslam

radio said:


> I personally think simple is better.  You get all these wannabe BBQ joints coming up with all sorts of concoctions to slather on the Q and you end up tasting the sauce, mop, rub or whatever they overload it with instead of the beef.  A good brisket doesn't need more than some salt and pepper to be fantastic.
> 
> Best Brisket I ever had was at Slick's BBQ in Muscogee, Ok back in the 80's.  He was an old Black man that converted a rundown house beside the road to BBQ joint and served it on wax paper and those tacky rattan paper plate holders.  The old guy had tour buses detour miles out of the way to eat there!


Agree. The simplicity still greatness of salt and pepper with the brisket result is unparaleled.


----------



## smoke hog

Never had Franklins, although I want to but have been to Salt Lick Bbq. Their beef ribs are the best bbq I have had to date. Bordering on a religious experience.


----------



## texaxe

Waytoodeep03 was right. In Texas, beef brisket is the holy grail of meat. I have been cooking for a number of years and have had success with most styles of cooking but I have yet to make a really good brisket. I spoke to a pit master and asked him what  was the finish temperature he tried to achieve to know when his brisket was done. He held up his index finger and said, when I can put this finger through the brisket easily it is done. Just a reminder, that while the science is good, the guys like Aaron in Austin, Blacks in Lockhart and Zimmerhanzels in Smithville who have mastered the  art of smoke and fire is where you find truly great food.  Now look what you have done, I am craving brisket


----------



## gary s

I have said in several post "keep it simple" don't over think or make it complicated and you will have some great BBQ. 40 years of BBQing I have tried lots of different rubs, injections, marinades, you name I probably tried it, but the conclusion I came to was I like to taste the meat. My brisket I rub it with olive oil course ground black pepper and salt, on the smoker for 5 or 6 hours then I pull it off wrap it in butcher paper then back on until it's finished about 6 or so more hours, pull it off wrap in a couple old towels, sometimes into the cooler, sometimes just on the counter for and hour or so, tender, moist and a good smoke ring, every time. I have cooked so many briskets I can tell by looking and feel. Now when I first started lots of trial and error. No SMF, Internet and not much information other than asking the guys I knew who operated BBQ joints and a few friends who had been smoking for a while. So I had some mistakes, tought and way over seasoned brisket. But I learned.

Gary


----------



## ameskimo1

Being from Michigan we don't get much good smoke up here unless you do it yourself; I can do in my backyard what most of the 'good' joints around here can do. About 1 1/2 years ago I stopped by Franklin's and loved everything I ate. I'd go back right now if I could. We also went to Salt Lick which really didn't do anything for me other than take some $$ out of my wallet. I was quite unimpressed and would probably turn down another visit. Knowing for months I was going back to Austin this past fall, I dreamed and drooled about going back to Austins and had intended to get there a couple of times. However as fate would play out, it just wasn't in the cards but we kept passing by Donn's so we stopped in there one day. Hands down best turkey I've eaten. Smoked throughout, juicy, and no wait. Next year I have two places to get to but brisket at Franklins is still at the top of my list.


----------



## bocaboy

I had a chance to meet Aaron at the Texas Monthly BBQ Festival last year. He could not have been nicer and posed for a picture with me (see attachment to this post.) He could not have been nicer to me, a total stranger.

His brisket at the booth was simply fantastic, the most tender I've ever eaten, and that included brisket that wasn't smoked but braised in the traditional Jewish way of making this cut of meat. Unfortunately, I had to leave Austin before I could visit his restaurant, but I will definitely be back next year for the BBQ Festival, and one goal will be to eat at Franklins!













franklin.jpg



__ bocaboy
__ Jan 26, 2014


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

Does he really smoke prime graded briskets?  Heck, Sam's Club sells choice brisket for $5 a lbs.  I couldn't imagine what prime brisket goes for.


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## trying2smoketex

]I must admit I'm totally intrigued by Aaron Franklin's brisket legends.  I drove down to Austin a few months back to visit friends and was disappointed  to find out the line was too long to actually get any brisket for that day.

So what is the step by step to Aaron's brisket success?

I'm always trying to learn something new.

Scott


----------



## dirtworldmike

Trying2smokeTex said:


> ]I must admit I'm totally intrigued by Aaron Franklin's brisket legends. I drove down to Austin a few months back to visit friends and was disappointed to find out the line was too long to actually get any brisket for that day.
> 
> So what is the step by step to Aaron's brisket success?
> 
> I'm always trying to learn something new.
> 
> Scott


 His videos are on You Tube.


----------



## aggie94

Jealous of you Bocaboy, you even got a photo to prove you were there!  I was at the 2012 Texas Monthly Festival but gave up trying Franklins brisket as the line was a football field long and never got shorter.  Next time I'm there, I'm going to get some no matter how long the line is!


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## gary s

*This is what Arron said in an email :*

*Thanks Gary, *

*We will have our online store up and running in a few weeks, if you don't mind checking back soon. *

*If you are ever in Austin, please come visit us. *

*P.S> We do not serve "grass fed" beef, but instead for the majority of their lives the Black Angus cattle graze on lush pasture land throughout the mid-west. Prior to processing each animal is feed a high quality corn-based feed ration that enhances meat tenderness and flavor. The beef contains no growth hormones or antibiotics.*

*Thanks!*

*Aaron *

*On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:55 PM*


----------



## bigtexun

So, Gary S., you said you found someone selling the better grade of brisket...  Was it a meat market?  I'm a bit too far to drive there just for a brisket, just curious if we have one of those places around here.

If it is a meat market, I may be SOL, because around here the meat markets tend to be a lot more than three times higher...  The Meat markets are great places to go right when they open new, they have better prices and selection, but after they sell out of their grand-opening load, they jack the prices up, the selection down, and the quality becomes iffy...    My wife has a Sam's membership from work, so I got a Costco membership for my work, just so I can shop both...  I think I like Costco better.  But I haven't bought any briskets there...  They have the exact same cryovac brand I can get at the HEB (the local Texas grocery store chain) and HEB is usually a bit cheaper on the cryovac brisket and ribs...  But Costco has the better steaks, fish and chicken.

25 years ago, I helped a friend start a meat delivery business, and I got him connected with restaurant suppliers.  The restaurant suppliers have an entirely different meat supply.  Essentially, the restaurants get the good stuff, and the good stuff goes for high dollar...  But the big score there was when I found that Omaha Steaks and Seafood was actually willing to sell to us.  They warned that we were direct competitors, so we could never do mail order or have a storefront in a city where they had one, so as long as we kept clear of that, we could sell their restaurant supply line.  As it turns out that worked out really well, as that line was already pre-packaged in perfect sizes,  It was missing some of the most expensive items, but those wouldn't have been big sellers anyway...  The only catch was we had to order 8000 pounds of meat at a time...  but to get us started they were willing to sell us 4000 pound deliveries for the first year.  Their restaurant brand was "Golden Plains Foods", and was the same product they sold mail order, but at a wholesale price.  Our cost was comparable to grocery store pricing for premium meats, but at a higher quality level, higher than meat market quality as well.  My friend didn't stay in the business, so I can't get access to that meat now without ordering through the Omaha web page... but if any of you see someone selling golden plains products at a reasonable price, you should try it out.  They don't sell brisket, but what they have is good.

I saw someone mention that Sam's has choice brisket for $5 a pound.  That can't be the whole story there, as most of the standard brisket sold is choice (except when it's a no-roll that still grades choice).  I don't know the current stats, but my dad wrote a book, and at the time something between 70 and 80% of all meat was graded choice.  The lower grades were mostly reserved for factory consumption in processed foods (ranging from dogfood to canned goods).  However a lot of meat goes ungraded, but still has the same 70% "would be choice if graded" stat.  The ungraded meat ic called no-roll, and is basically a cost-cutting measure.  Some grocery stores buy no-roll meat, and invent their own grading terms for it.  But the stats I'm citing for choice are falling, because the prime category is growing due to breeding producing animals that can grade prime on grass alone, that is partially where the Angus figures in, but Angus has been with us a while.  I'm sure that in the 25 years since I was up on my meat info, some new prime producing breeds are out there.  When I was selling meat, we didn't sell angus, because side by side the prime corn-fed Omaha meats tasted better than the prime Angus...  But I've been tasting some good Angus these days, but that may just be the grain finish.

But for those of you wanting to eat your brisket, and /not/ die of a heart attack, grass fed beef is actually mostly good for the heart, compared to the grain fed or grain finished beef.  So while I would like to try smoking a high-dollar corn-fed brisket a couple times, I will probably stick to the cheap grass-fed grocery store beef so that I can live to tell about it.


----------



## gary s

It was at a meat market, no growth hormones or antibiotics  But the price was to high, don't remember exactly but seemed like $7 or $8 a lb. We don't have a Costco (wish we did) so I buy from Sam's they have Choice and Select both, sometimes they run the Choice on sale (probably when they have too many and need to get rid of them) I have bought both and honestly at the end of the day when it's been on the smoker for 12 + hours, I really couldn't tell the difference, not like you can with a steak. I guess maybe a Prime brisket would not take as long to smoke due to the marbling and fat content in the meat. My briskets turn out tender, juicy, and a nice smoke ring every time and usually go with select, don't think I have ever smoked a Prime brisket, Done quite a few Prime Rib and love Prime cuts of Rib-eye , but I'll probably just stick with the Select and occasional Choice on the briskets. There was a whole discussion on aging brisket in another post, and how much better it was. I wrote to Texas A&M who has done lots of research in these areas, long story short, they said since you are cooking a brisket low and slow for approximately 12 hours that the aging was not a taste factor, not like it would be in a steak which you cook hot and fast.         Soooooo     I hope that helps.  My two cents worth anyway.

Gary


----------



## bigtexun

Well, I wonder if we are getting select in the grocery stores... if 70% of the meat is choice, perhaps the BBQ joints consume all of it, and the grocery stores are getting the stuff that is normally reserved for dog food and ground meat...  they don't sell that many briskets, so that mite make sense.  Most of the local stores have awful meat, unless you go to a store with a premium meat counter. 

In all honesty, I only eat beef a couple times a month, so I make it count.  Usually when I'm entertaining...  Getting old sux.


----------



## gary s

Something I forgot to add was;  A while back when I was in Sam's at the meat counter looking at brisket, ribs and pork shoulders, there were two men standing a few feet away and I overheard their conversation, one worked for Sam's I think the other was a Rep. for a meat supply co. One guy said that (A local BBQ joint) better not name names, said they were buying about 150 to 200 briskets a week from them (Sam's) and they were talking about Select. I am thinking they must be getting a special price from Sam's or they would be ordering direct from the supplier. Usually when I check the other store prices, Sam's always has a better price and better looking meat. We are pretty limited here in Tyler. This is Brookshire's (Local Grocery Store) Home base, they eliminated all the competition except for Walmart. So we have Brookshire's, Super One (Kind of Brookshire's Warehouse store) Fresh (Which is Brookshire's High end store), Walmart and Sam's and one meat market.

So not a big selection. Funny story, I posted this a while back, but here goes. A couple of months ago I was wanting to cook a whole pig, 30 - 40 lbs. so I called the only meat market in Tyler and asked if the had or could get me a small pig. He said he had one other guy that was wanting one and he could go ahead and get two, But they were kind of expensive, I asked how expensive ? he said a 30 - 40 pound-er would run about $200.00 I said no not a 300 or 400 lb but 30 to 40 lb. he said that was what they were going for. I said forget it I'll just go buy a couple pork shoulders. I wish I would have gone by his store, cause I've never seen a $200.00 30lb. pig. $6.66 a lb. for pork Wow !!!!

Gary


----------



## bigworm882001

I've been there and it's nothing more than hype. It certainly isn't worth a 2-3 hour wait. It's my opinion so take it for what it's worth. 

There's nothing special about his BBQ. The sides were horrible. 

The salt lick is nothing special. They drown their meat in sauce. I asked them for some with no sauce and some guy came out and spoke with me. I asked him what he's hiding putting sauce on everything. He went back and brought me some out with no sauce....nothing special.


----------



## bigworm882001

Backwoods BBQ said:


> I agree with mischief, and there mustard base sauce is nothing to write home about. All in all it is decent for Austin the silver lining is that its a ways out of Austin towards wine country so you can take your woman wine tasting before or after yall go "Q tasting"


It's anchovy based not mustard based.


----------



## gary s

Gary


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

gary s said:


> Something I forgot to add was;  A while back when I was in Sam's at the meat counter looking at brisket, ribs and pork shoulders, there were two men standing a few feet away and I overheard their conversation, one worked for Sam's I think the other was a Rep. for a meat supply co. One guy said that (A local BBQ joint) better not name names, said they were buying about 150 to 200 briskets a week from them (Sam's) and they were talking about Select. I am thinking they must be getting a special price from Sam's or they would be ordering direct from the supplier. Usually when I check the other store prices, Sam's always has a better price and better looking meat. We are pretty limited here in Tyler. This is Brookshire's (Local Grocery Store) Home base, they eliminated all the competition except for Walmart. So we have Brookshire's, Super One (Kind of Brookshire's Warehouse store) Fresh (Which is Brookshire's High end store), Walmart and Sam's and one meat market.
> 
> So not a big selection. Funny story, I posted this a while back, but here goes. A couple of months ago I was wanting to cook a whole pig, 30 - 40 lbs. so I called the only meat market in Tyler and asked if the had or could get me a small pig. He said he had one other guy that was wanting one and he could go ahead and get two, But they were kind of expensive, I asked how expensive ? he said a 30 - 40 pound-er would run about $200.00 I said no not a 300 or 400 lb but 30 to 40 lb. he said that was what they were going for. I said forget it I'll just go buy a couple pork shoulders. I wish I would have gone by his store, cause I've never seen a $200.00 30lb. pig. $6.66 a lb. for pork Wow !!!!
> 
> Gary


I wonder if he thought you were asking for a suckling?  A 30-40 lbs. suckling would probably cost that much in a remote town.


----------



## magslam

bigworm882001 said:


> I've been there and it's nothing more than hype. It certainly isn't worth a 2-3 hour wait. It's my opinion so take it for what it's worth.
> 
> There's nothing special about his BBQ. The sides were horrible.
> 
> The salt lick is nothing special. They drown their meat in sauce. I asked them for some with no sauce and some guy came out and spoke with me. I asked him what he's hiding putting sauce on everything. He went back and brought me some out with no s





>


I haven't been there and will eventually try it whenever I get the chance; nevertheless I also have wondered about the hype factor. Like the stock market.


----------



## jaredndallas

I have a few questions:

I've been researching and learning from Aaron by watching his videos, reading articles for months. There are a couple of things/questions I would like to point out/ask:

Aaron cooks the briskets all day, then pulls them off by the time he gets to work (around 1:30 am). I've read somewhere that he places them on cookie sheets/racks and lets them rest while he "gets the warmers ready". My theory is, is that the internal temp doesn't just go away immediately. I think the longer it rest and absorbs all the moister, then more it 'slow cooks' while it rest.   Any idea how long he rest them at room temp?
  Also, what is the temperature for a warmer?  My oven will only go down to 170. I'm afraid that's too high. I don't want to cook the meat longer forcing out all the moister I just tried to reabsorb through resting.  

Any ideas? Input?

Thanks!


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## magslam

Good question. I guess there are trade secrets not meant to be public domain, just to justify Aaron. I have seen restaurants keeping food warm under lamps; also those trays immerse in hot water. I don't know but trial and error seems unavoidable in this quest.


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## redwood carlos

JaredNDallas said:


> Also, what is the temperature for a warmer? My oven will only go down to 170. I'm afraid that's too high. I don't want to cook the meat longer forcing out all the moister I just tried to reabsorb through resting.
> 
> Any ideas? Input?
> 
> Thanks!


I saw on TV once when he was talking about resting and it looked like his smoker was running 185.


----------



## daricksta

REDWOOD CARLOS said:


> I saw on TV once when he was talking about resting and it looked like his smoker was running 185.


The Danger Zone for food for anywhere from 20 minutes to two hours is between 40* to 140*. So, federal and local food safety laws require that cooked, unrefrigerated food needs to be kept at or above 140*. Generally, food shouldn't be kept unrefrigerated for more than 2 hours, or for more than 1 hour if the air/room temp is over 90*. I would think that an oven's Warm 170* setting was selected precisely because it won't further cook the food being kept warm. If cook with a smoker the minimum temp is going to be anywhere from 200*-215* and the food's going to cook over a period of several hours at least.

Perhaps if Aaron is keeping the briskets warm under 185* he must know that won't overcook the meat before he serves it to customers.


----------



## trying2smoketex

What the heck is "Peach Paper"

Scott


----------



## java

Trying2smokeTex said:


> What the heck is "Peach Paper"
> 
> Scott


X2


----------



## jgwellwood

A quick search revealed this...

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/pea...tm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=Shopzilla+Campaign


----------



## bugz13

Trying2smokeTex said:


> What the heck is "Peach Paper"
> 
> Scott


Peach paper is a type of butcher paper (also know as steak paper) used to keep meats fresher for longer. 

Here's a link to Peach Paper at the Web Restaurant Store:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/18-x-800-peach-treated-butcher-paper-roll/43318PEA.html


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## magslam

bugz13 said:


> Peach paper is a type of butcher paper (also know as steak paper) used to keep meats fresher for longer.
> 
> Here's a link to Peach Paper at the Web Restaurant Store:
> 
> http://www.webstaurantstore.com/18-x-800-peach-treated-butcher-paper-roll/43318PEA.html


Thanks for posting the link. Price is reasonable.


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## jwg299

1 thing I've learned is the quality and grade of meat available makes a difference.

I'm sure he's using a C.A.B for his brisket.

I also know he mentions S&P as his seasoning but rest assure he's using more than just that, and as any bbq person does, they will not reveal their secret to you.

Now I'm not saying his bbq isn't great, but hype, quality of meat, consistent cooking and spending years refining your craft all play a part.

I've had his brisket and it is DAMN GOOD, but I like the bbq at Salt Lick better so it's just a matter of peoples taste and if his bbq caters to the peoples taste in Austin then good for him.

Surprising thing is how many people in line are from out of town and come to try his bbq because they heard about it.  I know that was why I got some.


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## raastros2

i know iam not waiting in line at 8am for bbq haha


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## smoke hog

I haven't had Franklins BBQ but did try a pork shoulder with just salt and pepper as Aaron described it and it was amazing. I will never go back to the pork rubs I have made or bought at stores. It came out black as coal due to the pepper. Not burnt mind you, just black. AMAZING! Sometimes we think we have to jump through hoops but this time simpler is waaaay better.


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## jjme22

ya'll are makin me hungry!


----------



## bugz13

jwg299 said:


> 1 thing I've learned is the quality and grade of meat available makes a difference.
> 
> I'm sure he's using a C.A.B for his brisket.
> 
> I also know he mentions S&P as his seasoning but rest assure he's using more than just that, and as any bbq person does, they will not reveal their secret to you.
> 
> Now I'm not saying his bbq isn't great, but hype, quality of meat, consistent cooking and spending years refining your craft all play a part.
> 
> I've had his brisket and it is DAMN GOOD, but I like the bbq at Salt Lick better so it's just a matter of peoples taste and if his bbq caters to the peoples taste in Austin then good for him.
> 
> Surprising thing is how many people in line are from out of town and come to try his bbq because they heard about it.  I know that was why I got some.


Hey, I've been with Aaron when he was seasoning up his briskets... it's really only salt & pepper (and a fairly light sprinkling at that). Sorry to disappoint you JWG... that's just how it is.


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## gary s

I have been using only salt & pepper for quite a while, low and slow, and wrap with butcher paper about 5 or so hours in. I get asked all the time if I use a special rub, inject or marinade ?  Nope I like the taste of the smoked meat without added or injected flavors. Again it all depends on your taste and what you like. Now every once in a while I will try something different, but always go back to simple. Ribs are a different story, everybody around here (family) likes different styles, so when I do ribs, some are dry, wet, wet & sweet Dry & spicy, some sauced some not.

Gary


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## jwg299

bugz13 said:


> jwg299 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 thing I've learned is the quality and grade of meat available makes a difference.
> 
> I'm sure he's using a C.A.B for his brisket.
> 
> I also know he mentions S&P as his seasoning but rest assure he's using more than just that, and as any bbq person does, they will not reveal their secret to you.
> 
> Now I'm not saying his bbq isn't great, but hype, quality of meat, consistent cooking and spending years refining your craft all play a part.
> 
> I've had his brisket and it is DAMN GOOD, but I like the bbq at Salt Lick better so it's just a matter of peoples taste and if his bbq caters to the peoples taste in Austin then good for him.
> 
> Surprising thing is how many people in line are from out of town and come to try his bbq because they heard about it.  I know that was why I got some.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, I've been with Aaron when he was seasoning up his briskets... it's really only salt & pepper (and a fairly light sprinkling at that). Sorry to disappoint you JWG... that's just how it is.
Click to expand...

Not disappointed my friend. I've had his brisket and noticed more than just salt & pepper plus I've seen a video where he says he will use 1 or 2 other things, but no matter what he does, he's successful and doing something right because the people love it.


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## hickorybutt

I read an interview about Franklin BBQ and he described a lot of what he goes through.

He runs on five 1,000 gallon tank smokers and burns through 4 cords of wood per week - geez!!  Starts out at 1:00 a.m. each morning and finishes when he sells out in the early afternoon.  I thought to myself - man I would love to do what he does (when watching him cook and slice brisket, etc. on youtube) then when I heard this, it is surreal of just how much goes into a BBQ restaurant.

He has a really interesting story behind starting out on a backyard smoker, then moving to a trailer and selling a couple of briskets a day, to quickly becoming "the best bbq joint in America" and moving through thousands of pounds of meat per day.


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## balismoke

Here’s a Daniel Vaughn article on how most central TX BBQ Places take care of their rested meat before serving. Franklin uses an Alto-Shaam warming Cabinet
http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/importance-wrapping-brisket 
I've read a lot of people say their best briskets were the ones wrapped in a cooler, or set in an oven at 170 for a while.

Franklin BBQ lives up to the hype. I've had BBQ just as good as it in several other places, but the thing about Franklin BBQ is that it’s consistently great. There aren't off days, they've honed their process. Is it worth hours of waiting? Sure, every once in a while. I lived in Austin for several years and most Austinites don’t even eat there. It’s sort of somewhere you go when you've got family in town. You wait in line, drink some beers, shoot the shiz, eat. If you’re not interested in waiting in line but you’re in Austin, go right up the road to Micklethwait Craft Meats.
I think if you follow his BBQ with Franklin Videos, wrap with butcher paper, let it rest in a cooler you’ll have some pretty killer BBQ. Try contacting some meat suppliers if you can’t get higher quality brisket at the super market. A lot of the companies that supply nicer restaurants will have a line on prime brisket, and may be willing to sell you a one off order.


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## magslam

jwg299 said:


> Not disappointed my friend. I've had his brisket and noticed more than just salt & pepper plus I've seen a video where he says he will use 1 or 2 other things, but no matter what he does, he's successful and doing something right because the people love it.


I agree. Franklin success is remarkable, more over when taking into consideration this is Barak Obama's America time, not Teddy Roosevelt.


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## hickorybutt

magslam said:


> I agree. Franklin success is remarkable, more over when taking into consideration this is Barak Obama's America time, not Teddy Roosevelt.


Yeah, because our govt. makes it so dang hard for small business owners.  I'd love to sell my 'que one day as I get better and more experience with smoking, but can't see how I'd be successful when first starting out and having to go through all of the hoops to even get a license and all of that crap, much less cook a quality product.  With how heavily everything is regulated, the fact that Aaron Franklin started his restaurant from the ground up (and went through a highway trailer) shows some serious dedication.


----------



## jwg299

magslam said:


> I agree. Franklin success is remarkable, more over when taking into consideration this is Barak Obama's America time, not Teddy Roosevelt.


You lost me there bud, what does the presidents have to do with Franklin's BBQ?


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## gary s

One key word Balismoke said "   *consistently*  "  to me that is what makes a successful BBQ joint. We have quite a few here in Tyler, the problem is about half of them are inconsistent, sometimes you go and their food is great, the next time awful. What I have noticed is the pit master's at the franchise stores it seems like a new guy every time you go, I asked one of the young guys about that, he said that he had just started, never really cooked BBQ before, he told me "There is really nothing to it" you go to one of the other stores to train for a few days, and everything is laid out for you. I said like a schedule ? he said yes. you have a chart on how much and when to put what on, then you wait, look at the chart and it tells you when to pull it off, pretty easy. These are the big Auto Smokers (that's what I call them)  Most are gas fired with a place for wood to generate smoke. We have a couple of places that use real pits, as does Franklin. He has a great product because he is consistent. And like anything else you do if you do it enough you get good at it, develop an eye and touch to tell. Texas Monthly had a real good article, actually that month was about BBQ it talked about and rated the BBQ joints in Texas, but it also talked about the pit masters and how long and much experience they had. If you got up each day put on 5 or 6 briskets every day lets say for a year, you would probably would have learned by feel, looks and time, and be turning out some pretty darn good brisket.

Gary


----------



## hickorybutt

gary s said:


> One key word Balismoke said "   *consistently*  "  to me that is what makes a successful BBQ joint. We have quite a few here in Tyler, the problem is about half of them are inconsistent, sometimes you go and their food is great, the next time awful. What I have noticed is the pit master's at the franchise stores it seems like a new guy every time you go, I asked one of the young guys about that, he said that he had just started, never really cooked BBQ before, he told me "There is really nothing to it" you go to one of the other stores to train for a few days, and everything is laid out for you. I said like a schedule ? he said yes. you have a chart on how much and when to put what on, then you wait, look at the chart and it tells you when to pull it off, pretty easy. These are the big Auto Smokers (that's what I call them)  Most are gas fired with a place for wood to generate smoke. We have a couple of places that use real pits, as does Franklin. He has a great product because he is consistent. And like anything else you do if you do it enough you get good at it, develop an eye and touch to tell. Texas Monthly had a real good article, actually that month was about BBQ it talked about and rated the BBQ joints in Texas, but it also talked about the pit masters and how long and much experience they had. If you got up each day put on 5 or 6 briskets every day lets say for a year, you would probably would have learned by feel, looks and time, and be turning out some pretty darn good brisket.
> 
> Gary


A good many of today's BBQ joints (especially the chain joints) use Southern Pride smokers or the like, with gas as you stated.  To me this just isn't the same as using a real pit.  That is why I am so fascinated with Franklin BBQ - Aaron uses five 1,000 gallon tank smokers.  Pretty impressive to manage 5 pits of that magnitude.  Think of the hot spots you'd have to deal with, along with each pit acting differently in it's own way.  Trying to manage all of that and still turning out great 'que every single time.  WOW.  Even though he has a couple of guys helping him watch the pits, its still impressive.

I also read that Franklin tosses any meats that are less than their standards.  And he said that they certainly ruin good briskets, etc. with overcooking.  That's just the nature of the beast.  Seems he is focused on delivering a great product by doing what he loves rather than trying to just rake in cash.


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## redwood carlos

hickorybutt said:


> Seems he is focused on delivering a great product by doing what he loves rather than trying to just rake in cash.


...And in the process he is raking in cash(or at least enough to make a living) and isn't that what we would all want?


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## magslam

gary s said:


> One key word Balismoke said "   *consistently*  "  to me that is what makes a successful BBQ joint. We have quite a few here in Tyler, the problem is about half of them are inconsistent, sometimes you go and their food is great, the next time awful. What I have noticed is the pit master's at the franchise stores it seems like a new guy every time you go, I asked one of the young guys about that, he said that he had just started, never really cooked BBQ before, he told me "There is really nothing to it" you go to one of the other stores to train for a few days, and everything is laid out for you. I said like a schedule ? he said yes. you have a chart on how much and when to put what on, then you wait, look at the chart and it tells you when to pull it off, pretty easy. These are the big Auto Smokers (that's what I call them)  Most are gas fired with a place for wood to generate smoke. We have a couple of places that use real pits, as does Franklin. He has a great product because he is consistent. And like anything else you do if you do it enough you get good at it, develop an eye and touch to tell. Texas Monthly had a real good article, actually that month was about BBQ it talked about and rated the BBQ joints in Texas, but it also talked about the pit masters and how long and much experience they had. If you got up each day put on 5 or 6 briskets every day lets say for a year, you would probably would have learned by feel, looks and time, and be turning out some pretty darn good brisket.
> 
> Gary


Exactly. Nowadays, that "schedule" way of doing things goes as far as flying planes. The caching phrase "anybody can do it" sets the tone and people believe it. No surprise then having high pit master turnover and resulting with inconsistent quality.


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## magslam

REDWOOD CARLOS said:


> ...And in the process he is raking in cash(or at least enough to make a living) and isn't that what we would all want?


There is nothing wrong the way Aaron is "raking" his cash. He's doing it the old fashion way. Hard work and accountability; is his name at his business door.


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## magslam

hickorybutt said:


> Yeah, because our govt. makes it so dang hard for small business owners.  I'd love to sell my 'que one day as I get better and more experience with smoking, but can't see how I'd be successful when first starting out and having to go through all of the hoops to even get a license and all of that crap, much less cook a quality product.  With how heavily everything is regulated, the fact that Aaron Franklin started his restaurant from the ground up (and went through a highway trailer) shows some serious dedication.


It takes an act of Congress to get where Franklin is today. And everything is so freaking expensive you have to think and overthink your way to make a profit, break even or at least not loose money.


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## gary s

One of the last emails I got from Aaron Franklin he said he was in the process of adding his 6th smoker another 1000 gal. 

I realize that you want to make money in any business you are in, if you don't you want be there long. I was in the steel erection and crane business, We had to complete our jobs on time and do a good job, but I stressed service. We wanted to be better than the other guy, along with that thank you attitude. And that really pays off, we would get a lot of extra and call backs without having to bud against the other guy.

It has been several years, we use to do a lot of projects in the DFW area, I was up there checking on our jobs and stopped in a BBQ joint I haven't been to before. When I walked in the first thing I noticed was It didn't smell like a BBQ joint should and mostly school age kids working there. I decided to give it a try anyway, ordered the combo plate, the guy cutting the meat, weighed every piece he cut before putting it on the plate, when he got to the brisket he started taking some slices off, I asked him what he was doing, he said it was to much. I said "hey just forget it, if you are worried about giving a slice or two to much you don't need my business". He said the owner told him that business had been slow and not getting better, so they had to watch everything including cutting back on the portions. I said WOW you really think that will work? he shrugged his shoulders and said I just work here, not up to me. As I was leaving I thought if that was my place I would have been the one cutting the meat, loading up the plates and asking everybody how they liked it. About 5 or 6 months later I was in the same area and decided to go by and see if anything had changed, It had, it was a Chinese restaurant.

Gary


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## frosty

Franklin's is a lot of hype, and granted they turn out good BBQ.  People begin lining up at 7:30 AM like they are waiting on a parade to come by.

 If I remember correctly it is only open from 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM.

BUT, they are really catering to the hysteria that develops from desperation for a limitied supply of product.  This is marketing genius.  Happens in the Auto Industry, and can certainly happen with BBQ.

Furthermore, they add to the situation by limiting amounts that they produce, and the hours that they are open. By limiting supply they can create buzz, and increase the rabid fans that will drive hours for a legend.

Aaron is (by most accounts) a good guy, willing to continue to care about his craft, control quality, and still give to his community. He is willing to dispense knowledge of his methods and actions freely and doesn't do it in a back room.  He basically has perfected the "Texas Crutch" method, and focused on quality.

He is entitled to make a living at something he is good at and has taken a long time to perfect. That is a craftsman, whether you make cabinets, steel, bricks, or BBQ.

That is the American Dream at it's finest.  I for one, don't get involved in the the hysteria, and will make my own butcher paper wrapped brisket, and stay at home.  That way, I can continue to feed family and friends, and enjoy what is important.

God Bless and Good luck!


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## magslam

Frosty said:


> Franklin's is a lot of hype, and granted they turn out good BBQ. People begin lining up at 7:30 AM like they are waiting on a parade to come by.
> 
> If I remember correctly it is only open from 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM.
> 
> BUT, they are really catering to the hysteria that develops from desperation for a limitied supply of product. This is marketing genius. Happens in the Auto Industry, and can certainly happen with BBQ.
> 
> Furthermore, they add to the situation by limiting amounts that they produce, and the hours that they are open. By limiting supply they can create buzz, and increase the rabid fans that will drive hours for a legend.
> 
> Aaron is (by most accounts) a good guy, willing to continue to care about his craft, control quality, and still give to his community. He is willing to dispense knowledge of his methods and actions freely and doesn't do it in a back room. He basically has perfected the "Texas Crutch" method, and focused on quality.
> 
> He is entitled to make a living at something he is good at and has taken a long time to perfect. That is a craftsman, whether you make cabinets, steel, bricks, or BBQ.
> 
> That is the American Dream at it's finest. I for one, don't get involved in the the hysteria, and will make my own butcher paper wrapped brisket, and stay at home. That way, I can continue to feed family and friends, and enjoy what is important.
> 
> God Bless and Good luck!


You know, where there's smoke, there's fire....


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## gary s

There was, and still is a BBQ place in Dallas the old original Sonny Bryan's on Inwood Rd. It has since passed on to his kids who opened other locations. Back in the 70's I ate there on a regular basis. I asked Sonny why he didn't move to a bigger place or open another place.( Sonny always seemed happy, cutting meat, waiting on the customers and I remember him whistling, Loved what he was doing, and had some of the BBQ you ever tasted). Sonny said If I moved or opened another store, the first thing people would say is "It's not as good as it used to be"    and I make plenty of money right here. People who are from there or live there know what I am talking about when I say this is a very small place, and if not grandfathered in would never make the new building codes. Sonny sold BBQ till he ran out which was two or three o'clock , he may have had a little bit of the less popular items left. but never held brisket or ribs till the next day, didn't have to. It was that good. The place is still busy like that, but since Sonny passed it's not the same, quality is not as good. Sonny loved what he did and enjoyed the customers, now you get the feeling it's about money. 

As I see it Aaron has a great product, selling a ton of BBQ has 6 pits, (that is a lot of meat) and_* is*_ a marketing genius. He is a very personable guy who loves what he does. I have sent him a dozen or so emails asking a variety of questions he always answers back. This guy puts in a lot of hours every day and works hard, he should make a lot of money. Bottom line is if his BBQ was just so so it wouldn't take long for that long line to disappear. I really don't believe people will continue to wait in line for hours for average food. Around here when a new place opens it's crowded, everybody want's to try it. You know it good if after 6 months or a year it's still busy and people are waiting in line.

Gary


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## raastros2

thats what bbq is about...the art of keeping it simple and taking the time of smoking it low and slow


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## hickorybutt

gary s said:


> There was, and still is a BBQ place in Dallas the old original Sonny Bryan's on Inwood Rd. It has since passed on to his kids who opened other locations. Back in the 70's I ate there on a regular basis. I asked Sonny why he didn't move to a bigger place or open another place.( Sonny always seemed happy, cutting meat, waiting on the customers and I remember him whistling, Loved what he was doing, and had some of the BBQ you ever tasted). Sonny said If I moved or opened another store, the first thing people would say is "It's not as good as it used to be"    and I make plenty of money right here. People who are from there or live there know what I am talking about when I say this is a very small place, and if not grandfathered in would never make the new building codes. Sonny sold BBQ till he ran out which was two or three o'clock , he may have had a little bit of the less popular items left. but never held brisket or ribs till the next day, didn't have to. It was that good. The place is still busy like that, but since Sonny passed it's not the same, quality is not as good. Sonny loved what he did and enjoyed the customers, now you get the feeling it's about money.
> 
> As I see it Aaron has a great product, selling a ton of BBQ has 6 pits, (that is a lot of meat) and_* is*_ a marketing genius. He is a very personable guy who loves what he does. I have sent him a dozen or so emails asking a variety of questions he always answers back. This guy puts in a lot of hours every day and works hard, he should make a lot of money. Bottom line is if his BBQ was just so so it wouldn't take long for that long line to disappear. I really don't believe people will continue to wait in line for hours for average food. Around here when a new place opens it's crowded, everybody want's to try it. You know it good if after 6 months or a year it's still busy and people are waiting in line.
> 
> Gary


That's some story... The problem with many restaurants (and businesses in general) today is that they are focusing on trying to save money and cut corners where possible. On the one hand I understand, because businesses have to be profitable. Its a tough economy, people are spending less, we (both businesses and consumers) are owing more to the gov. every single year, and so on. But the pennies that restaurants and businesses are pinching won't make up for lost customers that get fed up with poor customer service and feeling like their money is getting squeezed.

Good for Franklin BBQ that they are focused on delivering an excellent product even if it is an added expense .  Their growing customer base will far outweigh the dollars they would be saving by selling brisket that isn't 'just right' because they didn't want to lose a $70-$80 brisket.

I'm sure that it is gut-wrenching to have to throw out a whole brisket, especially the quality that he sells.  But that brisket would end up serving 10-15 customers who just may not return if they feel like they aren't getting a top-quality product - and especially after waiting in line for 3 hours!!


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## magslam

hickorybutt said:


> That's some story... The problem with many restaurants (and businesses in general) today is that they are focusing on trying to save money and cut corners where possible. On the one hand I understand, because businesses have to be profitable. Its a tough economy, people are spending less, we (both businesses and consumers) are owing more to the gov. every single year, and so on. But the pennies that restaurants and businesses are pinching won't make up for lost customers that get fed up with poor customer service and feeling like their money is getting squeezed.
> 
> Good for Franklin BBQ that they are focused on delivering an excellent product even if it is an added expense .  Their growing customer base will far outweigh the dollars they would be saving by selling brisket that isn't 'just right' because they didn't want to lose a $70-$80 brisket.
> 
> I'm sure that it is gut-wrenching to have to throw out a whole brisket, especially the quality that he sells.  But that brisket would end up serving 10-15 customers who just may not return if they feel like they aren't getting a top-quality product - and especially after waiting in line for 3 hours!!


In addition to businesses focusing on saving money and cutting corners, they're definetaly focusing in a faster than light return for their investment. People want to apply stock market principles  and dinamics to everything. I have seen a firing range catering to "up scale" customers by charging top dollars for memberships and access. It is a risk; Sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Most of the times is not right, but then that's why today's society is not like the one we enjoyed before; today everytihng is average. I am nothing but a number to any given business; they can't care less if I come back or not and it shows. As long as they made the "average" for the week, they do not want to know my or your name.

What makes Franklin success special is the whole package; his old fashion approach to business and his priorities quality and service right on top. I am far from Austin, but If I were a local, I would frequent Franklin's BBQ store real early in the morning at least every other week.

I wish him nothing but the best.


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## gary s

Back when I was a young guy, I got out of construction for a while and into the Food industry. I started at a steak house, who cut their meat fresh each day, used choice beef and had a pretty small menu. They focused on quality and customer satisfaction. They had a great business that steadily grew. The owner open a second then a third location. I helped with all aspects of the third store and was made manager. We were steadily growing had a consistent customer base, Until the owners son got involved and started buying cheap meat and added a bunch of things to the menu that were also not quality type items. All three stores started loosing customers, and instead of going back to what had worked in the past, guess what, kept cutting quality and portion size. I complained as did the other managers but nothing changed. Eventually I figured it was just a matter of time before something major happened, so I put my feelers out to get back into construction (crane and rigging). I did and it wasn't long after till he started closing his stores, First was #2 than the one I ran and eventually the original. About that time or a little after I ran into the owner at a hotel I was staying at while looking at a rigging job. We had coffee and talked, he said he wish he would have never put his son in charge and stayed with his original concept. He said once everything started going bad, the money got tight and instead of just cutting his losses closing the last two stores and going back to what he new in the first place, he was trying to keep all three stores open. I told him I understood, sometimes it's a hard thing to realize what you need to do and go ahead and do it. I look back now and realize that not just his places but most places that served low quality, skimpy portions are no longer around. I know there are some fast food chains that put out a lot of low quality stuff but count on volume. Eventually you just see them disappear, I think people now days are more quality conscious than quantity conscious.  Pretty much everyone I know who doesn't mind spending money to eat out expects good food and a generous portion, me included.

Gary


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## dls1

I came across an online article about Franklin recently where the author cited some interesting numbers from an interview with Aaron:

"So here’s what it takes to run what many consider to be the best barbecue joint in the country:

Time Aaron gets to work when he’s cutting brisket: 6:00 a.m.

Time Aaron gets to work when he’s cooking: 1:00 a.m.

Hours a day Aaron’s on the job: 14. “That doesn’t count the welding of cookers and other stuff. I’m physically here 14 hours a day, but once I leave here I’m still working. It never stops!”

Hours a day the cookers are fired up: 24

Cords of post oak wood Franklin goes through a week: 4.86

Pounds of meat Franklin goes through a week: 7,637, based on our calculations Saturday

Hours it takes to cook brisket: 15

Time the line starts: 6 a.m. on Saturdays. “It’s too early! I tell people to go sleep in their cars and I’ll come knock on the door when we’re ready, but they want to be first. It’s like everyone is trying to one-up each other!” 8:00 a.m. on weekdays, “which is still absurd. I mean, come on, it’s not cronuts over here…”

Average wait, in hours: 3 (4-5 on Saturdays)

Most amount of people in line at the time of opening: 400

People who get to skip the line: 0

Hours Anthony Bourdain waited in line: 2.5

Time the door opens: 10:59 a.m."

Time the first order is in: 11:00 a.m.

Time the brisket sells out: 2:30 p.m.

Number of briskets Aaron cooked before he opened: 20


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## marauder

Aaron Franklins BBQ YouTube _  brisket! a good demo  and on PBS coming soon! He keepa it simple salt pepper and real BBQ over  Oak coals. good info


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## backwoods bbq

there is no doubt aaron franklin produces good bbq. I think it is very important to realize bbq is subjective to taste, is influenced by hype, and taste can often be influenced by anticipation, or others opinions before tasting it. One thing I would like to point out is, When was the last time a very small bbq joint outside of central texas wont first place in texas monthly? Sure there are a lot of good places in smaller towns that make the list Tylers BBQ here in my town of Amarillo, texas made the cut this last issue. His brisket is just as good as franklins, cost around the same 19.95 lb sliced 13.95 chopped. I am convinced he uses black angus prime like franklin. He uses different wood, but smokes his brisket similar to franklin and uses all wood smoker without gas. he sells out everyday. I often wonder if a place in a small town outside central texas will ever win? The judges texas monthly use hit a lot of texas que joints but im sure that the local tweets, and facebook posts of local spots given them an automatic advantage over the less known joints. IMO I think that texas monthly is slowly turning the restaurant side of bbq into more of a "bbq competition" judged not only by taste but by geographical biased pre-determinations. Im not knocking aaron franklin. I look up to the guy, I just think since a bbq joint is not also being judged by initial smells, sights, types of pit used, all the visual appetizers  that go along with a bbq joint. Why not judge the bbq blind? just like a bbq competition where you don't know who smoked the meat you are judging solely by the way the meat taste, visual appearance of it, etc. Consistency does play a part, once you are on top or on the list you have to be even more consistent  with your Q to stay. This being said, restaurants in and around Austin texas that have claimed the #1 spot in past history have dropped in quality and service and still make top 50 somehow (hype, legacy, hysteria call it what you want) and I have eaten at small hole in the wall restaurants in towns of 1200 people that taste way better than restaurants say in Llano, texas and never make the list. I feel the name of a restaurant and the hype it comes with should not pre-determine the score they give for someone's brisket :)


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## marauder

wow 19.95 a lb an;does 1500 lbs a day ;i call that pretty good margin money! no wonder there are so many BBQ joints in Texas Oklahoma Kansas Missouri. the consistency ;based on the grade of beef pork .. Prime &;angus choice;. ultimately the good ones ;that hit the mark daily &; stay ;on what works demographically ;feed the masses with ;quality........ avoid the &;greed that; ruins;a "good BBQ Joint" ;by. making MORE MONEY by cutting corners ! ;GOOD BBQ is what sells . the consumer today can produce what the average BBQ joints can put out....  the free market rules!


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## noboundaries

I've always loved BBQ'd meats, even before I knew what was good.  Flavor, quantity, service, and simple surroundings are what I love.  Back when I frequently traveled for business I consumed Q all over the country, but a military stint in Texas is where I fell in love with my wife and the style of Q that suits me best.  Sutphen's Amarillo, Sonny Bryan's DFW, and a long gone place in Alice, Tx that served meats on butcher paper and tea in Mason jars are just a few that are stuck in my memory. Hickory and mesquite are imprinted on my tastebuds and still my favorite woods to smoke on beef.  It was the lack of available good Q locally and a wife who believed I could duplicate the long-lost Texas flavors here at home that got me into smoking meats.

Would I stand in line for hours for great brisket?  Nah, but I think it is absolutely terrific that people do.  I can now make a brisket I love, been eating on one all week.  I never want to get tired of brisket though so I only smoke one about every six weeks to two months.  Pork, chicken, meatloaf, chuckies, beef roasts all get smoked quite often, but brisket is a special treat.

Aaron is obviously a master at what he does.  What I like best though is the personality he presents on his videos; one of a nice guy willing to share with anyone what he has perfected, making Q that people love.


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## mickhlr

Noboundaries, that's a great observation.  You just made me miss living in south-central Texas.  Being an old Texas boy who spent 20 years in the military all over the world, my story is just about the opposite.  It took me quite a while before I could eat BBQ anywhere else, after growing up in Texas.  And, I never could duplicate what the BBQ joints put out back in those days.  I think I can now, but definitely not back then.  For one thing, when I was younger, I didn't want to take the time to do it.

I learned to appreciate a lot of different BBQ styles from different places all over the world though.  One thing I found that I do not like at all though is the mutton that they do in Kentucky, and a few other places.  And, I'm not a big fan of some of the vinegar-based BBQ sauces on the east coast.  But, for the most part, I just like BBQ.

I think somebody does pulled pork just about everywhere.  Actually, I'm not a big fan, as most of the meat taste is lost in the sauce.  And, a lot of places even do a pulled beef, using brisket...which to me is a total waste of brisket.  Chicken, to me, is about the same anywhere...and something I can tolerate.  And, I love a lot of sausages in different areas.  A different story, but I like brisket, I believe the best sausage is also in all the little towns in south-central Texas.

I grew up eating beef ribs in Texas...as in Texas, beef is king.  But, I do like spare and baby back pork ribs.  And, I learned to like the dry-rubbed spare ribs like they do in Memphis...and even did mine that way for a while.  But, when I moved back to Texas, and started smoking mine the sweet Johnny Trigg-style, I just don't care for the dry-rubbed much anymore, even when visiting Memphis.  I do like to go to Corky's or Rendezvous for their ribs...but I think the event is more what it's about than the ribs.  So, I decided it's more what you're used to eating than anything else.  And, I'm used to eating the tender, juicy, sweet, lightly sauced, smoked ribs done low and slow...so, naturally I like them a lot better than the dry-rubbed hot and fast ribs, like they do in Memphis. 

But, one thing I learned is nobody can do brisket like it's done in Texas.  It is my favorite thing to BBQ, and my favorite meat to eat when I go to a BBQ joint.  And, most joints in Texas do a great brisket.  If they don't, they don't stay in business long.  I even tried the brisket at Tops BBQ in Memphis on my last visit...as Tops is consistently rated at the top of Memphis BBQ.  I have to say it was awful...I couldn't even finish my plate.  It was dry and tasteless, as it seems to me to be in most parts of the country.  I guess brisket is the Holy Grail of Texas, and you just have to eat it in Texas to appreciate it.  And, a lot of the old places, Kreuz Market in Lockhart for one, still serve it on butcher paper with no utensils, and no sauce...and rightfully so.  Good brisket doesn't need sauce to hide the taste, or make it moist.  It's like putting steak sauce on a steak to me, if that steak is good I sure don't want to ruin with steak sauce.

I was stationed at Bergstrom AFB in Austin back in the late 80's-early 90's.  And, me and several friends used to jump in my Jeep, with no top and an ice chest, on a lot of weekends, and drive to the small towns around that part of the country in search of good meat markets, looking for the best sausages.  Every small town in that part of Texas has their own sausage recipe...and it was a lot of fun searching for the best.  I actually found Kreuz Market on one of these sausage-hunting trips.   And, that first day we ate at another famous Texas BBQ joint in Lockhart, named Black's...and I loved Black's.  So, we saw Kreuz’s while we were there, and went back a couple weeks later and tried Kreuz's...and loved it.  I always ate the brisket and sausage Kreuz's.  Don't think they even had pork ribs...seems like just beef ribs.  But, back then, living in Austin, I loved to venture out to all the area BBQ joints and meat markets.  Simple, cheap, and fun!  Hard to beat great BBQ, and a couple of Shiners.  There was Southside Market in Elgin…it was always great.  And, it's where I ended up getting most of my sausages.   And, I lived in Del Valle, so I'd cut through to Elgin on the way to Taylor and Louie Mueller's.  Now, I will say theirs were about the best beef ribs I ever tasted.  They were so good, that I'd usually get brisket, sausage, and a beef rib there. 

And, you're right...I wouldn't stand in line for hours for anybody's brisket either.  Especially when you can just go to another joint in the area.  I'd just head on over to see John Lewis a La Barbeque, who used to be Aaron Franklin's pit master anyway...and probably nobody could tell the difference in the briskets with a blind taste test. 

In two weeks, in Tyler, we're having the Red Dirt BBQ and Music Fest.  15 of the best BBQ joints in Texas will be there, and we get to sample each of their BBQ for the price of admission.  I'm really looking forward to that.  The joints that will be there are:  Black’s Barbecue – Lockhart, Buzzie’s BBQ – Kerrville, Country Tavern –Kilgore, Cousin’s BBQ – Ft Worth, Hutchins BBQ – McKinney, La Barbecue – Austin, Lockhart Smokehouse – Dallas, Louie Mueller Barbecue – Taylor, Micklethwait Craft Meats – Austin, Opie’s BBQ – Spicewood, Riverport Bar-B-Que – Jefferson, Schmidt Family Barbecue – Bee Cave, The Slow Bone – Dallas, Stanley’s Famous Pit Bar-B-Q – Tyler, and Stiles Switch BBQ and Brew – Austin.  WoooHooo!!   

I'm glad to see folks such as yourself that takes that Texas-style brisket to other parts of the country.  Keep up the good work, my friend.


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## pappagut

Nice story MickHLR! I spent a few year is Austin, but grew up in Sugar Land. There was a butcher shop/bar b-que east of Austin in Elgin. Can't recall the name of the place. You could smell it before you could see the city. Not sure if there was even a stop light back then, but I do remember the food. They would process the meat on site, and would make que in the same building. So good!

I now live in the Pacific North West. It is hard to relate to people up here about the differences in Texas Brisket and others. I spent a few years up here trying every place and being disappointed each time by what the locals considered great que. I eventually bought a side barrel smoker from Texas Best Pits and had them ship it to me. 300lbs of pure bliss arrived a week later. I have friends over a few times a year and treat them to brisket as it was intended. No sauce, and slow cooked for 20 hours ;).


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## marauder

cool story and you have the pedigree ...texas brisket  .. my favorite   glad i have  learned to do it my self living in Oklahoma .. thank you Jeff Philips! Once my two  of three sons and i were in California/ Nevada Tahoe went to a BBQ place and a lady asked the .. sitting next to us  Sir? what is brisket? we rolled lol!


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## skyduster

As with all great restaurants, Franklins success is in the consistency of their craft! McDonalds is not the best burger in the word, however their food always taste the same!


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## migraine

Sr. Noboundries,

great post

So, for a NorCal'er  have you found a local joint you'd recommend, because I haven't

-Brian


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## noboundaries

migraine said:


> So, for a NorCal'er  have you found a local joint you'd recommend, because I haven't
> 
> -Brian


Brian.......... nope.  We've tried all the restaurants locally and nothing compares to what I can smoke in my own backyard.    

The closest I've found to the smoky BBQ we like is a place over on the coast south of Santa Cruz called Aptos Street BBQ.  A bit of a long drive for a quick lunch but a place we go when we visit our kids.


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## boxmaster

"And, you're right...I wouldn't stand in line for hours for anybody's brisket either. Especially when you can just go to another joint in the area. I'd just head on over to see John Lewis a La Barbeque, who used to be Aaron Franklin's pit master anyway...and probably nobody could tell the difference in the briskets with a blind taste test." MickHLR

We ate at both places 20 minutes apart (no line up at lunch hour at La Babeque) and there was a big difference in look, taste and texture.  Got some to go and and tested on a TX neighbour and she knew the difference, we gave no names but she had a preference! She didn't know the players but knew brisket!

I don't think i would make a habit of lining up either but i did once for Q and lots for concert tickets  ,,, some worth it  ,,, some not.


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## oldschoolbbq

This is as close to the Horse's mouth as possible...

People in Texas , ( when I lived there) use the cut of Brisket found in all Mkts. . The trick is K..I.S.S. , Simple seasonings , heat and good smoke , until IMT is met.

The equipment 'Franklin' uses is massive and well seasoned.  A bit of practice , perseverance , and patience is the secret.

Anyone can duplicate good Que , just slow down and let it do it's thing...













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__ oldschoolbbq
__ Jul 2, 2012






Have fun and . . .


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## dannyarterberry

Backwoods BBQ said:


> Lets see where to start. I wished the admins would make a drag and drop or highlighted section for replying with multiple quotes from other people. Ok, first Turn n Burn Thank you for correcting everyone about the brisket. BRISKET IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF BBQ! my 12 yr old second cousin can smoke a whole pig to near perfection with minimal practice but only the select few can master brisket. sorry Georgia, Carolinas, Tennessee. Texas BBQ is the best. Way to deep, if you were to try his brisket with "just salt, pepper and smoke" you would fall to your knees and shed a tear lol maybe. He uses brown butcher paper but mostly unbleached peach paper, no wax. Hambone, you said $8-$10 that's funny! I wished I could get out of that place for less than 15! Keep in mind, his brisket is $17.00lb ribs 15.00lb pulled pork 14.00lb turkey 14.00 lb and sausage 11.00 lb (also us Texans like to eat) Honestly just a combo sandwich here in Amarillo is $8.00! John is one of the pitmasters, he shows up late evening and starts the briskets/fires they currently have 5 pits (in the process of building another) Aaron is about to hire they go through on average 1500 lbs of BBQ per opening. 11am till sold out. The line as of recent count has exceeded 400 people which is why he has line attendants that count people get a rough estimate of how much meat they will order (Aaron tells them to round up because people always order more once they get to the counter) then they pass a marker to the estimated "last" person in line and tell people behind them that "Ya'll might be wasting your time, meat ends soon here (and points at the person)" I talked to my friend who said this past Saturday 7-27 he drove by and at 8am he stopped and counted almost 200 people waiting in line!  yea he uses Creekstone out of Arkansas city, KS whose meat is not only black angus prime (not actually the best tasting IMO, but definitely tied for first ...but the meat is supposedly all natural no hormones no probiotics, etc, (you know how those organic liberal Austinites are everything organic and natural) The fat on these briskets (according to Franklin in Texas Monthly interview) apparently renders better than a typical brisket. The fat will actually render better yet will take almost twice as long to smoke. The result is that "velvet" texture on a brisket most people in the world have no clue what is about. Its like heaven in your mouth. Keeping the German/Czech Central texas style is what its all about salt, pepper. low and slow smoke, steady heat, carving the brisket in front of you asking which you prefer, lean, super lean, moist, super moist, cutters choice, brisket tip, sugar cookies, burnt ends, etc. Given the fact that he is located in downtown Austin, (expensive) he buys very expensive cuts of beef, throws away the trimmings, Yes, you heard right throws away all his beef fat, beef meat from trimmings, pork skirting, and rib trimmings. (his sausage is not made in house but is made to his specs by a local market) I would say his BBQ is adequately priced for what you get (just don't go out there and expect to spend 8-10$ you may only get a few sides piece of bread and a big red! I did read another interview in texas monthly about aaron franklin going to a slaughter house to learn more about how they cut the briskets off the cow and it made him more aware of how precious the meat is so now he is considering making sausage in house with his trimmings. He also has a few beers there in Austin ya'll should check out!


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## jflsr

Sometimes what I think makes Texas BBQ better is the dirt the Oak trees grow in, and maybe the type of oaks. I've always found that woods from there taste better than Oregon, California, and Kansas woods. Then again, maybe I'm just partial! I do like mixing equal parts Texas oak and mesquite for beef, pork, turkey and chicken. Several other meats too, like wild game. Lived 32 years in Texas, cried every day after I had to leave.....


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## gary s

Since I am a born and raised Texan I am partial to Texas style BBQ,  But in saying that I like BBQ from other parts of the country as well. I think BBQ is relevant to where you live and what you are use to. My first recollection of BBQ was when I was a little boy, we would go to Hot Spring AR to visit my grandparents, as soon as we go close enough to smell the smoke, they told me  would wake up and say I smell BBQ. That is McClards, still there, and I eat BBQ every time we go to to Hot Springs. One of my very favorite places.

Gary


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## flyweed

I am partial to Rudy's BBQ when in Austin!


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## geothermal

I was intimidated and never had much luck with brisket until I watched Aaron's videos. After cooking 3 briskets now in my RF smoker,  I'm much more confident and the briskets have turned out great. I'm not from Texas, but I had several people over for a party a couple of weeks ago that used to live there and they know and love their brisket. They told me it was some of the best they've had. I know it's probably no where near as good as Franklin's but I'm happy with how it turned out. Can't wait to cook another one.













Brisket 004.JPG



__ geothermal
__ Nov 11, 2014


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## daricksta

GEOThermal said:


> I was intimidated and never had much luck with brisket until I watched Aaron's videos. After cooking 3 briskets now in my RF smoker,  I'm much more confident and the briskets have turned out great. I'm not from Texas, but I had several people over for a party a couple of weeks ago that used to live there and they know and love their brisket. They told me it was some of the best they've had. I know it's probably no where near as good as Franklin's but I'm happy with how it turned out. Can't wait to cook another one.
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> __ geothermal
> __ Nov 11, 2014


This looks incredible and just the way I'd like my brisket to look, although my family tells me I do a great job. The great thing about home BBQ brisket is that it doesn't have to taste like Aaron Franklin's; it just has to taste good to you and the people you're serving it to. I've got a MES 30 and I use the AMNPS so no way my brisket is ever going to be like Franklin's but I still do a damn fine job--and it's fun. Number one, smoking is supposed to be fun.


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## gary s

Aaron  Franklin's Secret  Reveled  !!!!

CONSISTENCY  ----------    He keeps it simple, doe's the same thing day in and day out, same smoker, type of wood, and has done so many I'm sure he can do them in his sleep. He perfected what he liked and sells. 

I figured out what I liked and my family likes and do it the same way every time. Had some failures early on and some that were good and some not so good, That was way before SMF, internet, laptops. Mine was strictly trial and error and asking a lot of questions. Much easier now, I like easy!

Gary


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## daricksta

Also remember what Aaron's "secret" brisket rub is: salt and pepper.


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## boxmaster

I like Rudy's too, didn't have mine in Austin though, trying to remember where!


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## whiskey424

I had Rudy's once in Austin and again on another trip to the Dallas area. Pretty darn good BBQ, most people would probably pass it up because the buildings look like old gas stations but they serve some good BBQ.


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## gary s

We have a Rudy's here in Tyler, right after it opened and I ate there  WoW, some of the very best brisket I have ever had. Couldn't wait to take a friend. When we went back I was embarrassed after all the bragging I had done on how how great it was. Tough, clearly not enough time on the smoker. I have been there a bunch of times since then, sometimes spot on sometimes not very good. They have a different person running the pit every time I go. And they start serving as soon as they have customers, weather brisket is ready or not. (Need to start earlier)  Great BBQ when they allow enough time. Really like their concept and dining area .

Gary


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## bigeasybbq

GEOThermal said:


> I was intimidated and never had much luck with brisket until I watched Aaron's videos. After cooking 3 briskets now in my RF smoker,  I'm much more confident and the briskets have turned out great. I'm not from Texas, but I had several people over for a party a couple of weeks ago that used to live there and they know and love their brisket. They told me it was some of the best they've had. I know it's probably no where near as good as Franklin's but I'm happy with how it turned out. Can't wait to cook another one.
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Love the thread in general.  I agree with GEOThermal, that by employing some of Aaron's method's, your BBQ can dramatically improve.  It was the simplest of things, but they work.  Watched the PBS series shortly before an annual competition we do and made some minor changes.  1st Brisket win for the Big Easy BBQ team.  

 













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__ bigeasybbq
__ Mar 5, 2015


















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__ bigeasybbq
__ Mar 5, 2015


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## gary s

Wow that brisket looks fantastic  You hit it out of the park Nice Job       
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Here are a couple of links I posted on brisket  But from the looks of yours you don't need any help.

Like the trophy too  

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...r-the-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...st-on-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/174019/east-texas-style-brisket-ribs

Gary


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## smokeytexan

Flash said:


> So, how does he compare to Salt Lick BBQ ?? Several of my friends have raved about this place. Not as expensive either.
> 
> View media item 243613


There is absolutely zero comparison.  Salt Lick is a destination restaurant, with a great location, and amazingly mediocre bbq.  It's a fun place to go for dinner (especially on Fri/Sat night), it's byob, and it's huge, but the bbq is nothing special - and the brisket is by far the most mediocre of the bunch.  Franklin's brisket is seriously one of the best pieces of meat I've ever eaten.  It is the holy grail of the holy grails of TX bbq.  If you're down this way, the second best piece of brisket I've had in years is at a little truck called Valentina's Tex Mex BBQ.  Unbelievable smoked meats coming out of this little food truck.


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## flash

Well I guess I will get to try. He sent me Brisket, sausage, turkey, beef and pork ribs for my birthday.  I did hear Franklins over does their Beef Ribs though. Would have a hard time standing in line for that.


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## brazosbrian

I gotta ask ...For those that bought Franklin's new book, of which I just received a copy but have not cracked open, I wonder how well the book leads you to creating great brisket? Anywhere near what comes out of the restaurant??

Brian


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## thesmokist

wood, the cut of meat he uses combined with his experience and a well seasoned smoker is why it is so good.


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## gary s

I probably said this before    CONSISTENCY    He Buys from a great supplier, uses seasoned wood and does the same exact thing day in and day out.

Gary


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## gditys

TurnandBurn said:


> smoke it and they will come my friend...smoke it....and they will come!


haha this is so true I just started smoking and people come out of every place when they smell it neighbors u don't talk to much ask what u are cooking


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## smokesontuesday

radio said:


> I personally think simple is better.  You get all these wannabe BBQ joints coming up with all sorts of concoctions to slather on the Q and you end up tasting the sauce, mop, rub or whatever they overload it with instead of the beef.  A good brisket doesn't need more than some salt and pepper to be fantastic.
> 
> Best Brisket I ever had was at Slick's BBQ in Muscogee, Ok back in the 80's.  He was an old Black man that converted a rundown house beside the road to BBQ joint and served it on wax paper and those tacky rattan paper plate holders.  The old guy had tour buses detour miles out of the way to eat there!


Man I miss Slick's. When the old man passed away it just wasn't the same anymore. His daughter and son-in-law tried to keep it going but they made the decision to "upgrade" to a better spot and just killed the whole thing.

It always cracked me up to walk in to that rundown old building at lunchtime and see nothing but suits and ties eating off butcher paper.


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## radio

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> radio said:
> 
> 
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> I personally think simple is better.  You get all these wannabe BBQ joints coming up with all sorts of concoctions to slather on the Q and you end up tasting the sauce, mop, rub or whatever they overload it with instead of the beef.  A good brisket doesn't need more than some salt and pepper to be fantastic.
> 
> Best Brisket I ever had was at Slick's BBQ in Muscogee, Ok back in the 80's.  He was an old Black man that converted a rundown house beside the road to BBQ joint and served it on wax paper and those tacky rattan paper plate holders.  The old guy had tour buses detour miles out of the way to eat there!
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> Man I miss Slick's. When the old man passed away it just wasn't the same anymore. His daughter and son-in-law tried to keep it going but they made the decision to "upgrade" to a better spot and just killed the whole thing.
> 
> It always cracked me up to walk in to that rundown old building at lunchtime and see nothing but suits and ties eating off butcher paper.
Click to expand...

LOL!  There were always a good crowd of "suits" there at lunchtime.  You ever notice that no matter how busy they were, he never allowed the help to run the register?

Slick's is the yardstick I use to see if other Q joints measure up, and very few even come close.  When we moved here in '09, there was a little BBQ place 1/2 mile down the road from us that was the closest thing to Slick's I had found.  Unfortunately, he just couldn't get enough business to survive and finally closed down.   I picked his brain all I could and picked up many good pointers that I adapted to my cooking.

I bet Slick's could give Franklin's and all the other fancy Q joints a real run for the money if he were still around!.  I was blown away the first time I saw tour busses pull in for lunch!


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## the smokewagon

Have any of you had Snow's BBQ in Lexington, TX about 45 min outside of Austin.  I thought Franklins Brisket was excellent, but Snows was a notch above.


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## aggie94

I had Snow's at the Texas Monthly barbecue fest in Austin.  It was very good and I did see Tootsie there, from what I hear it is actually better when they are back in their place in Lexington.  Franklin's booth was too crowded and I was hungry, the best I had at the festival was from Pecan Lodge.


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## smokesontuesday

radio said:


> LOL!  There were always a good crowd of "suits" there at lunchtime.  You ever notice that no matter how busy they were, he never allowed the help to run the register?
> 
> Slick's is the yardstick I use to see if other Q joints measure up, and very few even come close.  When we moved here in '09, there was a little BBQ place 1/2 mile down the road from us that was the closest thing to Slick's I had found.  Unfortunately, he just couldn't get enough business to survive and finally closed down.   I picked his brain all I could and picked up many good pointers that I adapted to my cooking.
> 
> I bet Slick's could give Franklin's and all the other fancy Q joints a real run for the money if he were still around!.  I was blown away the first time I saw tour busses pull in for lunch!


He owned that register. Not sure if he didn't trust anyone else or if he just wanted to touch base with everyone but it was noticeable. I've never eaten at Franklin's but if it is even close to Slick's I'd be amazed.


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## mickhlr

Been loving the info on this thread.  And, I too have watched all of Aaron Franklin's videos.  I also consider myself as somewhat of a brisket fanatic, if not a snob.  I do a pretty good brisket myself, as I think most Texans probably do.  And, as much as I'd like to try Franklin's brisket, I'm not standing in line 4 hours for anybody's brisket...and I absolutely love brisket...once again, as I think most Texans do.  In Texas, beef is king...brisket, plate short ribs, chuck short ribs, and beef clod...as well as sausage.  And, who could turn down a good 1 1/2" thick medium-rare Ribeye?  Beef is king!  And, when you say the word "barbecue" in Texas, it's about the meat...not some ungodly sauce.  We only put sauce on crappy barbecue.  Good barbecue requires none...just as a good steak requires no steak sauce.

IMO, anybody can do pork...and I mean anybody.  If the joint has a moniker with BBQ, Barbecue, or Bar-BQ in it, they better know how to do pork...as pork is just easy.  And, even if your pork butt doesn't turn out well...say it's a little dry...just drown it in barbecue sauce and nobody will know the difference.  And, I think my pork ribs are better than any joint I've ever eaten them in.  We actually have a couple of very good joints in Texarkana, TX/AR now...after not having a decent barbecue joint in the entire NE Texas/SW Arkansas area in forever.  Naaman's Championship Barbecue and Fantasy Barbecue.  Both have great brisket, and Naaman's even has some Louie Mueller-worthy beef plate ribs on Fridays and Saturdays.  I mean, good stuff.  And, I had a couple of friends try Naaman's when they first opened.  I asked what they thought of it, and they both said, "so-so".  So, I asked them what they ordered...and they both said pulled pork sandwiches.  So, I'm like...GET OUT OF TOWN...I ASKED WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF THE BARBECUE!  If you want pulled pork, run on down to Sam's and get a frozen bucket, take it home, thaw it out, and drench it in barbecue sauce.  No more than you know about barbecue, that would be good enough for you!  LOL!

So, what I'm trying to say is it takes real brisket snobs to know good brisket, or bad brisket for that matter.  I've eaten at a ton of barbecue joints in my lifetime, and I have smoked a ton of it as well.  I have to say that most barbecue joints in the world DO NOT know how to smoke a brisket...especially once you get out of Texas.  And, some of the worst brisket I've ever eaten has been at some of the famous Memphis barbecue joints.  They're all about pork...and just can't comprehend brisket.  It's a little better up in Kansas City...but still not Texas-good.

Two places on my list to eat at now are Snow's in Lexington...as "The Smokewagon" mentioned.  And, Pecan Lodge in Dallas...as "Aggie94" mentioned.  Actually, my son-in-law lives in College Station and works for the 12th Man Foundation.  He is a barbecue connoisseur, same as me, and has eaten at Franklin's.  He said he likes Pecan Lodge and Snow's even better.  So, my next trip down there, we are going to Snow's. 

And, now that we are talking about other joints, let me put my two-cents-worth in for Louie Mueller's in Taylor.  Once again, simple is better, and Wayne Mueller loves pepper as much as I do.  His beef rub, he says, is 9 parts pepper to one part salt.  I really doubt it's that much, but you get the idea.  I have to say, his brisket and of course beef ribs are the best for me of any barbecue joint that I've tried.  However, my wife doesn't like so much pepper...so, to each his own, and that's why there will always be debates about who has the best barbecue.  But, I think the best joints in Texas do put a lot of pepper on their brisket and beef ribs.

A couple of other places that I think are excellent is La Barbecue and Stiles Switch...both in Austin.  The reason...at Stiles Switch, pitmaster Lance Kirkpatrick once worked for Louie Mueller's, and La Barbecue, which was once JMueller BBQ, is owned by Wayne and John Mueller's sister, Leann.  And, pitmaster John Lewis once worked at Franklin's.  And, then there's John Mueller Meat Company, with brother John back in business in Austin...once again, excellent.  And, Aaron Franklin used to work for John Mueller.  So, you have all these outstanding barbecue joints that all trace their lineage back to Louie Mueller's.  And, I have to say at one barbecue fest I went to this year, Stiles Switch actually had better beef ribs than Louie Mueller's did on that particular day...and that's saying something.  Shane Stiles is a great guy, and when I told him their beef ribs were better than Wayne's that day, he introduced me to Lance and said Lance worked for Wayne for 10 years before he stole him away. Some more outstanding beef ribs and brisket can be found at Freedmen's Bar in Austin.  So, there are some outstanding barbecue joints in Austin today, without having to stand in line at Franklin's for 3-4 hours.

And, then there's the whole Schmidt clan...and all of their joints are excellent as well.  First, you've got Smitty's Market...right downtown Lockhart and where Kreuz Market was located forever.  When Rick Schmidt built the new huge Kreuz Market just out of town in 1999, his sister Nina took over the original place and named it Smitty's after their father.  Keith Schmidt took over at Kreuz Market in 2011 when Rick retired.  Both are great...and as always, no sauce and no forks.  The Schmidt family has also opened Schmidt Family Barbecue in Bee Cave, as well as Lockhart Smokehouse in Dallas.  All serve high quality brisket and beef ribs.  And, I haven't even mentioned Black's in Lockhart, since they're not in the Schmidt family, but they are also outstanding....what a barbecue town.  Lockhart, the barbecue capital of the world.

And, the thing I like most about all these joints is the owners and pitmasters are all such great people, who enjoy showing you their pits and talking about barbecue.  Well, except John Mueller...he's a little different.  :-)


----------



## noboundaries

Now THAT was a fun read!


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## chito2

I've lived in Austin my entire life, never had Franklins. Had everything else but not worth standing in line. It probably is good, but still not waiting in line.


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## jeepdiver

If you order beef in Memphis, you know very little about  BBQ.  If you think all pork = frozen shit from Sam's you know even less.

Brisket  is no harder  than a butt if you have patience, the butt just makes it easier to hide issues.


----------



## daricksta

I feel I've perfected my technique for making a superb brisket in my MES 30 using my AMNPS for the smoke source. I've never eaten BBQ brisket in a Texas BBQ joint but I and my family are very happy with what I've been turning out in my backyard. And that's really all that matters. We do have a Famous Dave's and a Dickey's BBQ Pit in my area. I know that what's produced in my electric smoker over wood pellets surpasses anything that comes out of their smokers and ovens.


----------



## radio

daRicksta said:


> I feel I've perfected my technique for making a superb brisket in my MES 30 using my AMNPS for the smoke source. I've never eaten BBQ brisket in a Texas BBQ joint but I and my family are very happy with what I've been turning out in my backyard. And that's really all that matters. We do have a Famous Dave's and a Dickey's BBQ Pit in my area. I know that what's produced in my electric smoker over wood pellets surpasses anything that comes out of their smokers and ovens.


Ate at famous Dave's one time in Springfield, Mo, and it will be the last time.  Sent the food back and still had to pay for it.  Don't know what caused it, but it was the worst tasting brisket I ever tried eat.  Dickey's here isn't a whole lot better.  A new place opened a month or so ago and I intend to try them my next trip to town


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## gary s

Dickey's is out of Dallas when he first started it was pretty good, but when he started Franchising the Quality went way down, One opened here in Tyler a couple of years ago, I eaten there 2 times mediocre, Too many kids and no consistency  

Gary


----------



## noboundaries

Ate at Dickey's once when one opened just a few miles from home.  That was enough.  One just opened in the last year close to my office, and even though I'm pretty burnt out on the lunch choices around the office, I just can't bring myself to go to Dickey's.


----------



## oldmisterbill

Gee Looks like half of Oklahoma is here.I got here too late to try Slicks , but my wife & inlaws remember it well. The rumor is that if no one used the register no onecould steal & no one would get the Blame. I believe in that theory.

  As for me I have only smoked some roast beef, but do more turkey ,chicken and pork. Haven't done a brisket yet.


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## ostrichsak

I tell people that Dickey's is the 'Mcdonalds of BBQ' which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO.  Sometimes you want quick & cheap BBQ and that's a good option.  We just ate there the other day in fact when we were in a hurry and it sure was better than other quick options nearby.  That being said, I'm not sure who put Dickey's, Famous Dave's and Franklin in the same breath.  ROFL  Not even in the same contest.


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## jted

As all of you know than you franchise a restaurant you  lose control of some of The quality. You don't necessarly do that when opening new locations since you can closely monitor all aspects of food  preparation and service.   You lose that when you  franchise.  You have new owners hiring there own people. BBQ is not like McDonald's where most any kid can flip burgers.      Jted


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## daricksta

radio said:


> Ate at famous Dave's one time in Springfield, Mo, and it will be the last time.  Sent the food back and still had to pay for it.  Don't know what caused it, but it was the worst tasting brisket I ever tried eat.  Dickey's here isn't a whole lot better.  A new place opened a month or so ago and I intend to try them my next trip to town


Very interesting about Famous Dave's. All I know is that I saw the guy on a TV BBQ competition and he was the first one to be eliminated. I think Chris Lilly won.


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## mds51

Just got back from a weekend in Fort Worth and we ate at one of the Spring Creek restaurants in Grapevine. The brisket was excellent and did not need the sauce that they provide. Even though it is a chain the taste and texture were excellent. I am from Oklahoma City and we are lacking on quality barbeque in the city. The best I have had is in Davis Oklahoma at Smoking Joe`s. it is worth the drive from the city and the brisket and ribs are excellent. No two hour waiting but they are always busy and closed on Sunday. I would love to see them one in OKC. 

Just my humble opinion!!
mds51


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## brazosbrian

Spring Creek in N. Dallas was just 'OK' the last time I went there (while visiting TX from Alaska) ...and back when I used to live there, I liked Colter's BBQ better (but maybe my taste wasn't refined yet?  That was back in the late 80s).  I've not been impressed with BBQ in Dallas lately ...maybe I just need to know where to go?  Can't remember the name of the chain (!) that we ate at last time, but it was awful ...cold, bland, bury it in sauce so you could choke it down.  Oh well... still would like to know where the good BBQ is in the Dallas area so that when we visit family down there, we can at least be fed right!

Brian


----------



## jcbigler

mds51 said:


> I am from Oklahoma City and we are lacking on quality barbeque in the city. The best I have had is in Davis Oklahoma at Smoking Joe`s. it is worth the drive from the city and the brisket and ribs are excellent. No two hour waiting but they are always busy and closed on Sunday. I would love to see them one in OKC.


I find that interesting. I don't recall eating at any specific barbeque places in OKC, but I would have though that it would be a large enough market to have a good couple of places in addition tot he normal chain type places. 

If you get up to Stillwater, Cherokee Strip Barbeque on Perkins Road is excellent. 

My favorite in  Tulsa is Albert G's.

I think there is a definite demarcation line between those that cook exclusively with wood and those that use gas/electric with chips and pellets. All of the barbeque place in Tulsa that I know of use pellet cookers. And It shows.


----------



## jcbigler

BrazosBrian said:


> ..still would like to know where the good BBQ is in the Dallas area so that when we visit family down there, we can at least be fed right!


I need to know where some good barbeque places in the Dallas/Fort Worth area are also. I usually get to Dallas about once or twice a year for business and used to stop at Jones Family Barbeque in Denison, on my way out of town as I head back to Oklahoma on HWY 75. But last time I was there a couple months ago, they had closed down. 

I will be in Fort Worth the third week of August for a 4 day long training class and need to find a good barbeque place at which to spend my per diem


----------



## mds51

I will have to try Albert G`s the next time I am in Tulsa. There are several that are good to Ok in the city but not great like Smoking Joe`s!  Like Some of the ones that are referred to on the forum this place has it all together. 
mds51


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## sopchoppy

gary s said:


> Dickey's is out of Dallas when he first started it was pretty good, but when he started Franchising the Quality went way down, One opened here in Tyler a couple of years ago, I eaten there 2 times mediocre, Too many kids and no consistency
> 
> Gary


Dickey's opened here about 4 years ago. Dickey's closed here 3+ years ago. Never talked to anyone that went more than once. BBQ served from a buffet line is just wrong. They had a prime location that is now home to the best Mexican food around.


----------



## jcbigler

There's a couple of Dickey's here in Tulsa. I've eaten there a couple of times. It's lack-luster at best. There is also Billie Sim's Barbeque, but it's worse than Dickey's. 

We also have the home grown Rib Crib chain, which is much better and almost rises to the level of a quality local barbeque joint. It's more like eating at a Chili's though.


----------



## mickhlr

JCBigler said:


> I need to know where some good barbeque places in the Dallas/Fort Worth area are also. I usually get to Dallas about once or twice a year for business and used to stop at Jones Family Barbeque in Denison, on my way out of town as I head back to Oklahoma on HWY 75. But last time I was there a couple months ago, they had closed down.
> 
> I will be in Fort Worth the third week of August for a 4 day long training class and need to find a good barbeque place at which to spend my per diem





BrazosBrian said:


> Spring Creek in N. Dallas was just 'OK' the last time I went there (while visiting TX from Alaska) ...and back when I used to live there, I liked Colter's BBQ better (but maybe my taste wasn't refined yet?  That was back in the late 80s).  I've not been impressed with BBQ in Dallas lately ...maybe I just need to know where to go?  Can't remember the name of the chain (!) that we ate at last time, but it was awful ...cold, bland, bury it in sauce so you could choke it down.  Oh well... still would like to know where the good BBQ is in the Dallas area so that when we visit family down there, we can at least be fed right!
> 
> Brian


JCBigler and BrazosBrian...if you're looking for true central-Texas style barbecue, where beef is king, and it's all about the meat, in the Dallas area, I've got a few places that meet that criteria.

1. Pecan Lodge - I have not eaten there, but I know a lot of barbecue people that say their brisket is even better than Franklin's.  So, they are on my list to eat at as well.

2. Lockhart Smokehouse - True Kreuz Market style barbecue, and part of the Schmidt family from Lockhart...the barbecue capital of Texas.  There's also one in Plano

3. Slow Bone - I've eaten their brisket at a barbecue fest in Tyler, and they also hit the mark.

4. Bet the House Barbecue - Is actually in Denton, but is another good one.

5. Hutchins Barbecue - Is in McKinney and also produces that great central Texas style brisket.

I mention the joints in Denton, Plano, and McKinney, since they are all essentially part of Dallas nowadays.

These places should get you going though...ENJOY!!


----------



## mds51

If you have time on your way back to wherever you are going in Oklahoma try to go to Smokin Joe`s in Davis. It is just plain an simple properly smoked ribs and brisket. We were there when it was busy but got our food in less than 30 minutes. We had to sit outside but that was at the old location. They have moved to a bigger place and I think better seating arrangements. The brisket was the best I have had in Oklahoma and the sauce and sides were very good but you do not need the sauce. Old style service and properly seasoned and smoked meat that is tender and delicious. A couple of hours from OKC but worth the drive and then you can see Turner Falls and the Arbuckles!!
mds51


----------



## jcbigler

> 1. Pecan Lodge - I have not eaten there, but I know a lot of barbecue people that say their brisket is even better than Franklin's.  So, they are on my list to eat at as well.
> 
> 2. Lockhart Smokehouse - True Kreuz Market style barbecue, and part of the Schmidt family from Lockhart...the barbecue capital of Texas.  There's also one in Plano


I'm going to hit both of these places during my trip in August, Probably Lockhart's in Plano on my way down on Monday the 17th, and Pecan Lodge on Friday evening the 21st on my way back home.


----------



## cecil

waytoodeep03 said:


> The line is like 2 hours for some brisket. I looked at the way Aaron Franklin makes his Brisket on youtube and it is very simple. Salt and pepper and smoke until it is tender. Yet people are lining out the door for this simple made brisket.
> 
> Is it the grade of brisket he is using? Does he use Wagyu or Prime, Choice or select?


Here is an article that I received in email today about Franklin BBQ

http://grillingwithrich.com/frankli...il&utm_term=0_f83d61166b-363e75cf10-327962305


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## dwhite1031

We have a Dickey's here in Midland.  They've been here maybe 4 years now. They say "the restaurant chain smokes its meat on-site over hickory wood-burning pits", but I'm not sure about that because there is no visible smoker on the premises.  I've never seen a smoker outside the building or smelled a smoker being used there.  We tried them a couple of times, once as walk ins and once at the drive thru and never again.  I was a bit leary of a place that was named "Best Airport Food Vender".  Never seen a smoker on the tarmac at any airport where there is a Dickey's either.....
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Waste of time and money.

Downtown Midland has a place that was once famous for good barbeque, that place is Johnny's Barbeque.  Until Johnny Hackney passed away a few years back and the family sold the place, it was really good barbeque. Now, it's "so-so".  We also have KD's barbeque and the Hog Pit.  In my opinion, if I want food that tastes like they use Liquid Smoke, then I'll go to KD's, nuthin' special about it.

Now the Hog Pit Pub and Grub on the other hand serves up great West Texas style smoked grub.  But they're only open for lunch and the kitchen closes at 2 and the bar closes at 4.  They had to do that back before the oil boom out here and it looks like since the oil prices have dropped they're having to again.


----------



## brazosbrian

MickHLR said:


> JCBigler and BrazosBrian...if you're looking for true central-Texas style barbecue, where beef is king, and it's all about the meat, in the Dallas area, I've got a few places that meet that criteria.
> 
> 1. Pecan Lodge - I have not eaten there, but I know a lot of barbecue people that say their brisket is even better than Franklin's.  So, they are on my list to eat at as well.
> 
> 2. Lockhart Smokehouse - True Kreuz Market style barbecue, and part of the Schmidt family from Lockhart...the barbecue capital of Texas.  There's also one in Plano
> 
> 3. Slow Bone - I've eaten their brisket at a barbecue fest in Tyler, and they also hit the mark.
> 
> 4. Bet the House Barbecue - Is actually in Denton, but is another good one.
> 
> 5. Hutchins Barbecue - Is in McKinney and also produces that great central Texas style brisket.
> 
> I mention the joints in Denton, Plano, and McKinney, since they are all essentially part of Dallas nowadays.
> 
> These places should get you going though...ENJOY!!


MickHLR... thanks!!!!!!  Looks like I need a few trips to Dallas!!

Brian


----------



## sacsmitty

BrazosBrian said:


> MickHLR... thanks!!!!!!  Looks like I need a few trips to Dallas!!
> 
> Brian


In the area of CA I live in we have Dickey's and Lucielles.  Not that impressed by Dickey's.  Lucielles is pretty good.  That was until I tried Franklin's in Austin. :)

I'm quite fond of a family owned BBQ in Hermitage TN called Papa Turney's.  Mike Turney (aka. Papa Turney) is a great guy.  They do a MEAN BBQ!


----------



## mickhlr

JCBigler said:


> I'm going to hit both of these places during my trip in August, Probably Lockhart's in Plano on my way down on Monday the 17th, and Pecan Lodge on Friday evening the 21st on my way back home.


I forgot you're going to be in Ft Worth.  On the days in between here's a couple in Ft Worth that you might want to try.  The original Cousins Barbecue on McCart Ave has pretty dang good brisket.  But, the last time I was there if you didn't specify you wanted it from the point, they'd give you slices from the flat...and I like a little fat rendered in mine, so I always ask for it from the point.  I really like their German-style sausage as well.  (NOTE:  I don't do chain barbecue joints, like Dickey's.  And Cousins has put in 5-6 joints in Ft Worth now...so essentially it is almost a chain, and I think 2 of them are in DFW airport.  But, they do know brisket.)

Then, there's Longoria's.  The best thing there is their 100% brisket sausage.  It is really great, and their trademark meat.  They also have a brisket beef jerky that everyone should try.

Another thing I should say...some of these places are not known for the "sides"...and some are.  Personally, I never rate a barbecue joint on their sides...as I could care less.  It's all about the meat.


----------



## foamheart

MickHLR said:


> JCBigler and BrazosBrian...if you're looking for true central-Texas style barbecue, where beef is king, and it's all about the meat, in the Dallas area, I've got a few places that meet that criteria.
> 
> 1. Pecan Lodge - I have not eaten there, but I know a lot of barbecue people that say their brisket is even better than Franklin's.  So, they are on my list to eat at as well.
> 
> 2. Lockhart Smokehouse - True Kreuz Market style barbecue, and part of the Schmidt family from Lockhart...the barbecue capital of Texas.  There's also one in Plano
> 
> 3. Slow Bone - I've eaten their brisket at a barbecue fest in Tyler, and they also hit the mark.
> 
> 4. Bet the House Barbecue - Is actually in Denton, but is another good one.
> 
> 5. Hutchins Barbecue - Is in McKinney and also produces that great central Texas style brisket.
> 
> I mention the joints in Denton, Plano, and McKinney, since they are all essentially part of Dallas nowadays.
> 
> These places should get you going though...ENJOY!!


I would have to add, since it appears to be an all Texas crowd "Cattleman's in El Paso" and Papa's in Dallas


----------



## foamheart

Oh, and as to, "Why is Franklin BBQ in austin so good?"

This guy has cooked more brisket than Gil Favor and Rowdie Yates ever imagined! You do something more than anyone else, you just nearly gotta be the best.


----------



## bluewhisper

I liked hitting little mom-and-pop BBQ places when I was on business trips in the South. Sometimes it was just a shack with a pit smoking, by the end of an exit ramp. But for TX, I've only been to San Antonio so there's a lot waiting for me to discover.


----------



## mickhlr

Texas Monthly Magazine has a pretty good little article on Texas Barbecue on the link below.  Some guy from Denver on this post the other day got mad and said I didn't know anything about barbecue because I was poking fun at pulled pork.  He even went so far as to say if I ordered beef in Memphis, that I know very little about barbecue.  But, he didn't know the whole story or why that even came about.  But, it doesn't matter...and his viewpoint doesn't matter to me.  So, this article will probably infuriate him.  LOL!!

I know pulled pork is considered good barbecue in some parts of the country...just not Texas.  I'm retired military and have traveled the world eating barbecue and trying joints all over.  But, I was born and raised in Texas, and still consider Texas barbecue the best in the world.  And, Texas barbecue is all about the beef...and all Texas joints are judged on their brisket.  And, in all honesty...most are not that good.  So, that's why the best brisket joints in Texas have long lines to get in the door.  But, to each their own...and that's why there will always be arguments about the best barbecue.  I just choose not to make it personal or cut down others choices.

In the Texas Monthly article Franklin's, Pecan Lodge, Snow's, and Louie Mueller's are ranked as the top 4.  The rest are in alphabetical order by city.

"And now, we give you the fifty best barbecue joints in Texas—which is to say, the fifty best barbecue joints in the world."

http://www.texasmonthly.com/lists/50-best-bbq-joints-world


----------



## aggie94

For those interested in barbecue in Fort Worth, Mick is pointing you in the right direction.  I've lived in Fort Worth most of my life and my family has for over a century so I can tell you about their barbecue. 

Angelos is the most famous barbecue place in town but they have changed hands several times over the years and not nearly as good as they use to be.  When I was a kid they had deep sawdust on the floor but the fire dept finally made them get rid of it.

Cousins original on McCart is very good, much better than different branch locations,  Some of the different locations don't have the ability to cook barbecue on location.  Instead they cook at McCart and ship it up to these to reheat.  They have been invited to the Texas Monthly Barbecue Fest the last few years.

Railhead on Montgomery and in Aledo are both very good.  I always get brisket so don't know much about their other choices but I hear the ribs are good too.

Spring Creek is usually good for a chain, and their hot rolls are amazing.  I'm living in Midland now and they are better than anything we have out here.  DWhite I see you are in Midland also, we'll have to get together sometime at Rosa's Mexican food, as you mentioned there is no good barbecue out here.

For those visiting Dallas, I ate at Pecan Lodge last weekend.  It was very good but expensive, 1/2 pound brisket was $10.  That turned out to be 3 slices with no sides.  Ate dinner again a few hours later.


----------



## jeepdiver

MickHLR said:


> Some guy from Denver on this post the other day got mad and said I didn't know anything about barbecue because I was poking fun at pulled pork.  He even went so far as to say if I ordered beef in Memphis, that I know very little about barbecue.  But, he didn't know the whole story or why that even came about.  But, it doesn't matter...and his viewpoint doesn't matter to me.  So, this article will probably infuriate him.  LOL!!



Well he lives in Denver but is from Mississippi, and has lived in Tennessee, Virginia, Alabama, and Florida.  He has also traveled the world and knows how to appriciate what a region is known for.  I don't order Pork in Texas, Jerk in Memphis, or Beef in Jamaica.  I also expect vinegar based sauce in some parts or North Carolina, and Mustard  base in other parts.

Unlike some I don't judge the world against some standard  I have, I enjoy the world for what each region has to offer.  Also being from the Great State of Mississippi and from the South in general I also know a thing or two about pride of where you are from, and have no issue with Texas Monthly claiming  the best 50 BBQ joints are in Texas.  We all know everything  is bigger in Texas, including  the delusions of their magazines and readers :)


----------



## doozer233

JCBigler said:


> I'm going to hit both of these places during my trip in August, Probably Lockhart's in Plano on my way down on Monday the 17th, and Pecan Lodge on Friday evening the 21st on my way back home.


You won't be disappointed with Pecan Lodge. The brisket was really tender and flavorful. The portions were really good and the price was right.

I was in Texas for a wedding in November and after seeing them on DDD, a trip there was one of my demands! We waited in line for a bit, but then figured out the trick to skipping the line is the bar. If there are seats available at the bar you can order your food there. The only stipulation is you have to also order drinks from the bar. We were almost finished with our lunch when the people we were behind in line were just making it up to place their order.


----------



## jcbigler

Doozer233 said:


> We waited in line for a bit, but then figured out the trick to skipping the line is the bar. If there are seats available at the bar you can order your food there. The only stipulation is you have to also order drinks from the bar. We were almost finished with our lunch when the people we were behind in line were just making it up to place their order.



Hmmm...interesting...so, by order drinks, do you mean alcohol? Or could I order a soda from the bar instead? 

My schedule looks like I will be there maybe 6:00-6:30ish on a Friday evening before I head back (4 hour drive) to Oklahoma. So I'd rather not wait in line for three or four hours.


----------



## doozer233

JCBigler said:


> Hmmm...interesting...so, by order drinks, do you mean alcohol? Or could I order a soda from the bar instead?
> 
> My schedule looks like I will be there maybe 6:00-6:30ish on a Friday evening before I head back (4 hour drive) to Oklahoma. So I'd rather not wait in line for three or four hours.



You know, I don't recall them specifying that it had to be alcohol!


----------



## aggie94

JC I was there on a Friday night and it wasn't that crowded, was there around 530 pm, may have been lucky. I hear they get hit hard at lunch, not sure many folks know they are open at night on the weekend.


----------



## mickhlr

Doozer233 said:


> You won't be disappointed with Pecan Lodge. The brisket was really tender and flavorful. The portions were really good and the price was right.
> 
> I was in Texas for a wedding in November and after seeing them on DDD, a trip there was one of my demands! We waited in line for a bit, but then figured out the trick to skipping the line is the bar. If there are seats available at the bar you can order your food there. The only stipulation is you have to also order drinks from the bar. We were almost finished with our lunch when the people we were behind in line were just making it up to place their order.


Great to know Doozer233!  Will definitely remember that little tidbit of information.  Thanks!


----------



## butt rub

Get Franklin's book on BBQ all the answers are in there. They take the time when they first started to test the wood,and the meat,they purchased the best beef& Pork.

My advise get there book there is good advise in the book, remember the book Franklin wrote was on a large cooker about 60 slab of ribs, ther is good advice for you guys with small cookers.


----------



## notex bluesman

He has a series of videos available free on YouTube if you type in Franklin BBQ. Many utilize a home size offset smoker like this group would use. A lot of great information and visual instruction.


----------



## mdlnb

I've never been to Franklin's BBQ but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I've watched his video's and the only thing I can figure is that he uses the best meat available.  The first time I smoked, it was a brisket that I got from a local butcher and it turned out so good, I was asked for an encore.  I hadn't even heard of burnt ends, but my son-in-law cut up some of the well done trimmings and dumped them into the baked beans and WOW, what a treat.  I had experimented with my own rub recipe that even included coffee, a bit of cinnamon and several different peppers, salt, cumin, and other spices.  It was a bit spicy for some around the edges, but I had so many drippings to make ajus that everyone was happy.  I don't think I can ever get it any better than that, but I am tempted to see if I can make a good brisket using only salt and pepper.  I just wonder if he throws in any MSG to heighten the taste. 

But, my first cook on my new smoker is going to be a 8.5lb pork butt.  Maybe I will try his idea on that and just use salt and pepper.  Hate to make mediocre pulled pork though.  I made pulled pork for my Dad's last birthday before he passed and him and my brother-in-law ate several plates of it before my sister and her kids got home.  I made it a bit spicy also and that 91 year old acarfed it down.  My brother-in-law was always complaining about having a sensitive stomach but he sure didn't look like he was suffering from two heaping plates full.  I never heard him complain.

I guess everyone has to find the perfect cook for their particular environmental setting.  I've tried brisket at some of the chain BBQ restuarants and have not been impressed or satisfied that I got quality for my money.   The only mimicking I am doing right now is try to get the taste of the fall off the bone baby backs that I can get at one popular place nearby.  If you don't get there by 3pm, you will wait in line to be seated.  They go through so many racks of ribs per day, I wonder who is their meat provider.  All the other BBQ they offer is mediocre to OK, but their ribs are the best I have eaten.  I think I almost matched their taste the last time I smoked some spare ribs.  I tried three different ways on three racks and I couldn't find anyone that preferred a particular rack that I provided.  ALL the ribs were stripped to the bone and gone before I could put any away for a late night snack.  I have to admit, they DID taste real good and I hope to replicate that cook.

But, I digress.  I think that I will prepare this butt the way Franklin does and hope it comes out as good as anticipated. I've never had a BAD cook, but I also don't want to mess with my decent reputation for good smoked meat.  Now, if it will just stop raining for a couple of days so that I can do my first cook on my newly modified smoker.


----------



## brazosbrian

Babybacks (sorry for the divergence - hijacking):  I think pork spare ribs have more flavor (but take a little longer to cook).  For babybacks, I find that a mild soy sauce/beer marinade makes a big difference and adds flavor to the (otherwise slightly bland) meat in babybacks.  I just mix a marinade of 20% soy sauce, 80% light lager or pale ale (your choice) and soak the ribs for 2-3 hours prior to cooking ...then rinse and prepare as always.  Studies show that the marinade doesn't penetrate much in this time (1/8" if I recall), but it migrates more deeply (1/4" total) as the meat heats up ...If you pull the membrane so the marinade is on both sides, and note that baby back meat is only 1/2" thick or a little thicker (raw) and that the marinade is soaking in from both sides, then you see that this technique works ...big improvement if you ask me.  Makes the meat have a 'something special, something tasty' in it that combines well with the spicy bark and smoke on the outside.  You can't tell that it was soy sauce in the marinade ...the ribs just tastes better when done.  I've got a special 2-day chicken (or 3-4 day turkey) brine that people rave about too... but I'll keep it under my hat for now :)

Brian


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## mneeley490

MDLNB said:


> But, my first cook on my new smoker is going to be a 8.5lb pork butt.  Maybe I will try his idea on that and just use salt and pepper.  Hate to make mediocre pulled pork though.  I made pulled pork for my Dad's last birthday before he passed and him and my brother-in-law ate several plates of it before my sister and her kids got home.  I made it a bit spicy also and that 91 year old acarfed it down.  My brother-in-law was always complaining about having a sensitive stomach but he sure didn't look like he was suffering from two heaping plates full.  I never heard him complain.


Yeah, my in-laws never seem to complain about my (free to them) 'Q, either. Probably because their mouths are stuffed full.


----------



## mdlnb

That sounds interesting.  I think I will try that soy-beer combo.  I did copy some of the competition stuff I saw on TV when I did my spare ribs and managed to get a really nice bark and flavor on them. I am getting a lot of requests for a repeat of my beef ribs.  All I used on them was a copy of Long Horn's steak spice, but when I  wrapped them, I put some cranapple juice, sugar in the raw and a squirt of Worstishire sauce.  OH and a generous bit of squeeze butter.  I like using Dr.Pepper on my pork ribs when I wrap them, but I also use honey, brown surgar and butter. I'm still experimenting to get that tender and slightly sweet taste. Oh, I do use a bit of diluted BBQ sauce in the wrap on both too.  But, not enough to make them messy. Just to infuse a bit of taste and bite. I know it sounds haphazard, but I'm still working on that "perfect" taste.  I like a bit of candy on my pork ribs, but just a little.  I like a pork taste, not ham taste.


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## jcbigler

notex bluesman said:


> He has a series of videos available free on YouTube if you type in Franklin BBQ. Many utilize a home size offset smoker like this group would use. A lot of great information and visual instruction.


All episodes available for streaming free on the PBS website:

http://www.pbs.org/food/features/bbq-with-franklin-episodes/


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## phatbac

JCBigler said:


> All episodes available for streaming free on the PBS website:
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/food/features/bbq-with-franklin-episodes/


I have to recommend these as not only very informative about the history of BBQ and technique but also very entertaining ( of course i'm a meat fanatic!)

to each their own

phatbac


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## jcbigler

phatbac said:


> I have to recommend these as not only very informative about the history of BBQ and technique but also very entertaining ( of course i'm a meat fanatic!)
> 
> to each their own
> 
> phatbac


They are all very good. One of the best cooking shows on TV. 

Hopefully he will publish them as a DVD set and we won't have to stream them off the internet.


----------



## mdlnb

I've also seen him on the Pitmasters shows, which they have been showing whole past seasons in the past couple weekends.  I enjoy all those TV grilling/smoking competitions.  I've picked up a few ideas from them.  Of course, unlike competition, we like our meat falling off the bone, not necessarily bite through.  Just a matter of preference. Fall off the bone and you can pull the ribs out and make yourself a decent rib sandwich IF/IF you have any leftovers.  The secret to that seems to be to hold back a rack.  You can always bring it out if someone feels slighted and starts crying for more. Otherwise, a nicely wrapped rack makes for a great lunch the next day, when everyone has gone their own ways.


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## mr roos

The place sounds awesome. Would love to give it a taste some time


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## smokedhokie54

Nobody beats Salt Lick IMO


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## staroftexasbbq

Its from Texas. Thats why end of story.


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## mickhlr

SmokedHokie54 said:


> Nobody beats Salt Lick IMO


SmokedHokie54, there's a heckuva lot of places in Texas that beat Salt Lick.  So, it just makes me wonder how many of the really great Texas barbecue joints you've eaten at?  Salt Lick is nothing more than a tourist destination.  It's an experience, and a lot of fun...just not a place to get really good barbecue.  Don't think those little open pits they have there can cook enough to feed the multitude of people that they have there.  They really use gas smokers, and use these little open pits as warmers, which is why their meat is basically tasteless.  And, their brisket is tough and full of fat, because they cook it hot and fast, and don't give the fat time to render into the meat.  Their pork ribs and sausage are fair, but their brisket is at the bottom of the barrel in Texas barbecue.

I got the chance to eat at Cooper's Old Time Pit Barbecue in Llano weekend before last.  It was very good.  Their brisket had a perfect bark, and was very tender and smoky.  Pork ribs and sausage good as well.  Probably the best direct fire smoked brisket I've had anywhere. 

And, I finally got to eat at Snow's Barbecue in Lexington last weekend.  They are only open on Saturdays, and open at 8:00am.  We got there about 9:00, and only had to wait about 20 minutes.  But, by the time we ate and left, the line was probably 2 hours long.  Of course, as some have said, their brisket is absolutely amazing!!  It's actually the best I've ever eaten, and I've eaten a lot of brisket at a lot of great Texas barbecue joints.  This was the first time I've ever eaten brisket for breakfast...and it was so moist and tender, it was like butter...and almost chewed itself.  So far, it's the only brisket I've ever eaten that I thought was better than Louie Mueller's Barbecue in Taylor, TX.  I just haven't eaten at Franklin's or Pecan Lodge yet...but have eaten at most of the others in the Texas Monthly Top 50.  So, I see why Snow's was voted best in Texas in 2008.  http://www.texasmonthly.com/food/lexington-snows-bbq/   And, voted #3 in 2013, behind Franklin's and Pecan Lodge. http://www.texasmonthly.com/list/the-50-best-bbq-joints-in-the-world/snows-bbq/

Just another note on Snow's.  As I've noted, when it comes to barbecue I'm a brisket guy...and in my opinion, brisket is what makes or breaks a barbecue joint in Texas.  However, we watched an Aaron Franklin show where he said he went to Snow's for their smoked chicken halves.  So, we got 4 to go, along with a couple pounds of brisket.  It was great chicken!  Tootsie knows what she's doing, and I could understand Aaron Franklin saying he goes there for the chicken.


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## fishorelse

I've had his brisket and it is truley spectacular.


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## dirtworldmike

I'm no expert but the only good Q here in Ohio is those of us doing it in our own back yards.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Maybe some interesting info I picked up from watching a  couple costumer  interviews of Arron Franklin on You Tube and also one of his pitmasters  The pitmaster said they put their briskets on at 10 am each day and pull them around midnight for service the next day. .

Arron said when they pull the briskets,they let them rest for several hrs. to cool down, then into a 140 degree warmer until they open at 11 am.

So off the pit at midnight. 2 hr. rest till 2 am. then hold them in the warmer for 8-9 hrs.

He also said he thought 203 was the perfect IT.


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## q-less

from a Kansas rancher,  all prime,  and he uses, " post oak" wood fired  tank smoker, long one,  it's always the meat  when it comes to Brisket


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## jcbigler

Q-Less said:


> from a Kansas rancher,  all prime,  and he uses, " post oak" wood fired  tank smoker, long one,  it's always the meat  when it comes to Brisket


He buys from Creekstone Farms in Kansas, which is a processing facility in Kansas. But they buy their beef from many different ranches across the country. Their actual ranch used to be located in Kentucky under the same name. They are notable because they enforce strict quality control measures, tried to get the USDA to let them test ALL of their beef for mad cow disease (which the USDA denied). And they have a line of all natural, non-hormone and non-antibiotic fed beef (which is what Aaron Franklin buys). It has also been certified Halal.

Last time I heard, he was buying 400 prime grade, all natural briskets per week. That's 200 head of cattle. I doubt any one rancher could supply that many all natural briskets. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creekstone_Farms_Premium_Beef

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/dining/24beef.html?_r=0


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## dirtworldmike

Here ya go.  Shop till ya drop!

http://store.creekstonefarms.com/master-chef-prime-whole-brisket/


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## noboundaries

dirtworldmike said:


> Maybe some interesting info I picked up from watching a  couple costumer  interviews of Arron Franklin on You Tube and also one of his pitmasters  The pitmaster said they put their briskets on at 10 am each day and pull them around midnight for service the next day. .
> 
> Arron said when they pull the briskets,they let them rest for several hrs. to cool down, then into a 140 degree warmer until they open at 11 am.  So off the pit at midnight. 2 hr. rest till 2 am. _*then hold them in the warmer for 8-9 hrs.*_
> 
> He also said he thought 203 was the perfect IT.


Holding in the warmer for 8-9 hours is the most interesting part of the information posted above.  I'm going to have to noodle that through.  That gives the cooked muscle a LONG time to relax and continue to break down collagen.  Very interesting.    

Although there is a lot to be said about using better grades of beef for more consistent results, it is no guarantee for the backyard smoker if one's techniques are flawed.  Reminds me of an occasional golfer buying expensive clubs and golf balls to "improve their game."  Without solid basics, you still get less than desirable results and may get the opposite of what you expect.


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## jcbigler

> Holding in the warmer for 8-9 hours is the most interesting part of the information posted above.  I'm going to have to noodle that through.  That gives the cooked muscle a LONG time to relax and continue to break down collagen.  Very interesting.



From reading Aaron's book and watching his videos, the cook time and holding brisket is so that he can free up the space in the smokers for ribs, pork butt, sausage and turkey. He smokes about 1,500 lbs of meat on a normal day.


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## bilgeslime

Never been to Franklin's because of the long line and my arthritics however been to the Original Salt Lick many times. I used to work downtown but Franklins always sold out before noon.


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## sport45

I've lived in Texas all my 55 years. I've never been to Franklins or Salt Lick and don't have a hankering to go to either. In my experience the best brisket isn't found at any sticks & bricks establishment. It's cooked under a shade tree in a big portable pit and found at the small town fundraisers, county fairs and other venues of the like. You'll find "legendary" cookers in just about every area if you just ask around.

In Bee County back in the 70's Lonzo Blackwell (rest his soul) would do his magic at your pit or bring his own. He'd show up with a load of mesquite in the back of his old pickup, build a fire and spend the night tossing a shovel full of coals into the pit every now and then as needed to keep it the way he liked. Come lunchtime the brisket, chicken halves, and sausage would all be finished to perfection and no aluminum foil or other wrapping would be involved. There are plenty of cooks out there like him, but he will forever hold a place in my mind as one of the greatest. If he put his mind to it, I imagine he could even tender up this keyboard I'm typing on and make it taste good on a bun.


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## el ducko

To find out how Aaron Franklin does it, read his book. He's detail-oriented but not pretentious. ...and he works his buns off. Excellent book. We bought our copy at one of the Austin Costco locations, but you can order it on-line from Amazon: "Franklin Barbecue: A Meat-Smoking Manifesto" by Aaron Franklin and Jordan Mackay. ...sells for about 18 bucks. ...well worth it.

We live in the area. We have never liked Salt Lick that much, but it has good atmosphere and all the TV "celebrity chefs" like that sort of thing. If you want atmosphere, fine- - drive clear out there to Driftwood. Otherwise, try one of the local spots (_except County Line, which still isn't very good, even after all these years_). Better still, head for Lockhart, about 45 minutes away, down highway 183. Kreutz, Smitty's, Black's- -  all are excellent and legendary.

One item for all of you out there, regarding Central Texas-style brisket- - *it's all about the meat*. Forget about your Kansas City/Memphis/Carolina sauces and such. Smoke your brisket "low and slow," and for your rub, use black pepper and salt and little else. Sauce, if used, is a side item. ...used to be, if you asked for sauce, they threw you out. Nowadays, they know you're from out of town, smile, and take your money.

And whatever you do, don't order chopped beef. It's a dead giveaway that "You ain't from around here, are ya, Boy."

el Ducko


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## mickhlr

el Ducko, you hit the nail on the head!  I totally agree in all areas, as I think most Texan barbecue junkies would.  Salt Lick's brisket is NOT what I'd call brisket.  And, don't think they feed thousands of people a day on those little fire pits.  No, they actually have humongous propane cookers, which equals no smoke.  And, undoubtedly, they cook it hot and fast.  Their brisket is about on par with a Rudy's...or worse. 

I'd add Taylor and Lexington to that road trip as well.  I still think Louie Mueller's has the best beef short ribs anywhere, and it's hard to beat Snow's brisket.

And, it is all about the meat...with salt and pepper.  UNLESS it's at Salt Lick, or a similar joint, where you have to add sauce to make that dried-out stuff edible.  Good brisket requires no sauce!  And, I always look up when I hear someone say, "chopped beef".  LOL!!


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## rogerwilco

What's the deal with "chopped beef?"  Many very good BBQ joints in Oklahoma feature it as a menu item and supply c/b sandwiches by the platter full to hungry lunch crowds. What am I not seeing?


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## mneeley490

I'm just guessing here, but I think "chopped beef" is just a way to disguise the fact that they're serving dry brisket. You chop it up and add some sort of sauce to make it palatable.


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## jcbigler

Chopped beef, I.e. Chopped brisket seems to be something that people outside of Texas do with brisket a lot. I think it comes from the prevalence of pulled pork, so they chop their beef also. 

Here in Oklahoma, at most places if you just order brisket they usually chop it. I always have to specifically order sliced brisket to make sure I get it sliced.

I'm not beyond a chopped brisket sandwich, or using it as a topping for a baked potato or breakfast hash, but sliced is always best. 

Also, Oklahoma seems to do smoked Bologna, which I find to be disgusting, personally.


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## dwhite1031

Salt Lick is to real Texas bbq as Taco Bell is to real Mexican food and Fazoli's is to real Italian food  :pot:


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## brayhaven

TurnandBurn said:


> he uses black angus prime.



Black lives matter [emoji]128521[/emoji][emoji]128522[/emoji]


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## smokesontuesday

JCBigler said:


> Chopped beef, I.e. Chopped brisket seems to be something that people outside of Texas do with brisket a lot. I think it comes from the prevalence of pulled pork, so they chop their beef also.
> 
> Here in Oklahoma, at most places if you just order brisket they usually chop it. I always have to specifically order sliced brisket to make sure I get it sliced.
> 
> I'm not beyond a chopped brisket sandwich, or using it as a topping for a baked potato or breakfast hash, but sliced is always best.
> 
> Also, Oklahoma seems to do smoked Bologna, which I find to be disgusting, personally.


Guess I truly am an Okie then cause I love me some smoked Cherokee round steak (that's bologna for you non-natives).

It's one of those regional things that stuck I guess. It does improve significantly when you use good bologna (homemade from some of the recipes here preferably) but that's like anything else smoked. Use good product to start with and you usually get a good result. It's definitely a low floor, high ceiling food though. The good is really good and everything else is pretty bad.

Chopped brisket is a chain thing that caught on I think. All the good places either don't serve chopped or only serve it because of customer demand. In its defense, it is a pretty good way to get rid of pieces of brisket that didn't slice well because they are too dry. It still has good brisket flavor usually. It just isn't good enough to serve sliced.


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## gary s

Chopped or Sliced ?

Here in East Texas (Tyler Area)  We have several Chain stores and some Independents , I've seen a few, that when chopped is ordered they uncover a warmer and scoop out some chopped. You know right away that is leftovers and brisket that would not stand up to slicing.

I went to Dickey's BBQ the other day, just to give them another try. (Should have saved my Money) The brisket was over cooked and falling apart was a mess on the plate, should have put that in the chopped pile.  One of My favorite Places has consistent  BBQ if you order chopped they slice it off a brisket and chop it in front of you.

Gary


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## mtnsmoke7

Have been all over the us and texas kicks ass !! Franklin's one of the best !! The brisket melts in your mouth. Salt Lick another great bbq !! Franklin's pits very basic, but smoking process hard to beat!! If you're serious about smoke, bbq connoiseur get out and about !!
mtnsmoke7


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## quicksmokinq

So I am planning a trip down in February to get me some of that brisket!  What time should I plan to head over and get in line if I want to make sure I am able to get some??  Thanks in advance for the advice!!


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## mtnsmoke7

You want to be there 6:00 to 7:00 am. The line starts around 5:00am. It actually is cool talking to everyone in line. They have chairs and they sell beer for the people in line. 
mtnsmoke7


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## jcbigler

gary s said:


> Chopped or Sliced ?
> 
> Here in East Texas (Tyler Area)  ...
> 
> Gary


Hey Gary, you ever eat at the Purple Pig in Flint? 

Ate there over Labor Day weekend while staying at a friend's place in Tyler. I thought it was ok. Better than chains, but not as good as Pecan Lodge or Lockhart Smokehouse in Dallas. 













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__ jcbigler
__ Jan 16, 2016


















IMG_20150905_192545433.jpg



__ jcbigler
__ Jan 16, 2016


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## sport45

I've lived in Texas all my 55 years. The  and can honestly say the best brisket doesn't 


dwhite1031 said:


> Salt Lick is to real Texas bbq as Taco Bell is to real Mexican food and Fazoli's is to real Italian food


Taco Bell isn't real Mexican food?

Damn, now I'll have to start going to Taco Bueno. That means good taco, after all. :)


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## gary s

Yeah, I've eaten there several times it's OK kinda of inconsistent  Not one of my favorites  Better than the Chain's though.

Gary


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## mickhlr

JCBigler said:


> Hey Gary, you ever eat at the Purple Pig in Flint?
> 
> Ate there over Labor Day weekend while staying at a friend's place in Tyler. I thought it was ok. Better than chains, but not as good as Pecan Lodge or Lockhart Smokehouse in Dallas.


Hey JCBigler.  I have to agree with gary s.  We go through there on the way to College Station at least once a month, sometimes more often.  And, it used to be pretty good 5-6 years ago...especially on the pork ribs.  But, the last few times we've stopped, even the ribs have been pretty bad.  We just don't stop there anymore.  Same thing in Palestine...we used to stop at Bishop's Brisket House, and it was good.  But, the last couple of times, it's been so bad that we stopped going there as well.  So, now trying to find a new barbecue stop between Texarkana and College Station.  And, there's about 5 different ways to go to College Station from here.  The only one we know of now is Joseph's Riverport Barbecue in Jefferson, but it's only about an hour away.  It is really good though...great brisket, and is ranked #28 on the Texas Monthly 50 Best BBQ Joints in the world.


----------



## gary s

MickHLR said:


> Hey JCBigler.  I have to agree with gary s.  We go through there on the way to College Station at least once a month, sometimes more often.  And, it used to be pretty good 5-6 years ago...especially on the pork ribs.  But, the last few times we've stopped, even the ribs have been pretty bad.  We just don't stop there anymore.  Same thing in Palestine...we used to stop at Bishop's Brisket House, and it was good.  But, the last couple of times, it's been so bad that we stopped going there as well.  So, now trying to find a new barbecue stop between Texarkana and College Station.  And, there's about 5 different ways to go to College Station from here.  The only one we know of now is Joseph's Riverport Barbecue in Jefferson, but it's only about an hour away.  It is really good though...great brisket, and is ranked #28 on the Texas Monthly 50 Best BBQ Joints in the world.


Hey Mick    Try Stacey's in Jacksonville   Right on 69 in front of Wally World

And there is Stacy's here in Tyler, Rated pretty good in Texas Monthly,   I thought it was over rated Try it and see what you think

Gary


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## mickhlr

gary s said:


> Hey Mick    Try Stacey's in Jacksonville   Right on 69 in front of Wally World
> 
> And there is Stacy's here in Tyler, Rated pretty good in Texas Monthly,   I thought it was over rated Try it and see what you think
> 
> Gary


Hey Gary, I have tried Stacy's in Jacksonville before.  I thought their brisket was typical East Texas brisket, no bark, and pretty bland.  And, it was dry, definitely from the flat...after I'd requested it from the point...like I do in all barbecue joints.  I'm actually amazed at the ones who don't know the difference.  BTW...if you ever come through Texarkana, checkout Naaman's on Stateline, just north of I-30.  They are the real deal...best brisket and beef ribs this side of Taylor, TX.


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## gary s

MickHLR said:


> Hey Gary, I have tried Stacy's in Jacksonville before.  I thought their brisket was typical East Texas brisket, no bark, and pretty bland.  And, it was dry, definitely from the flat...after I'd requested it from the point...like I do in all barbecue joints.  I'm actually amazed at the ones who don't know the difference.  BTW...if you ever come through Texarkana, checkout Naaman's on Stateline, just north of I-30.  They are the real deal...best brisket and beef ribs this side of Taylor, TX.


I'm sorry I meant Stanley's here in Tyler.  It's been a long time since I ate a Stanley's in Jville  They use to be pretty good, I guess everything changes.

Just Like Bodacious BBQ,   Roland (the guy who started it) always had exceptional BBQ  He tried to maintain that in the Franchise stores, Before he would sell a franchise you had to come work at his Bodacious for a long time, then he would decide. After you opened a store he may show up and spend months working with you in your store. But Roland got sick and just couldn't do it anymore.

He eventually closed his original location due to health, recently his son-in-law reopened it, I haven't tried it since he did.

Roland was was of the most passionate BBQ guys I ever met  He wanted it right, or he wouldn't sell it. I miss that guy.

Sonny Bryan was the same way in Dallas, but Sonny passed. His kids run it now.

Gary


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## mickhlr

gary s said:


> Hey Mick    Try Stacey's in Jacksonville   Right on 69 in front of Wally World
> 
> And there is Stacy's here in Tyler, Rated pretty good in Texas Monthly,   I thought it was over rated Try it and see what you think
> 
> Gary


Hey Gary, I have tried Stacy's in Jacksonville before.  I thought their brisket was typical East Texas brisket, no bark, and pretty bland.  And, it was dry, definitely from the flat...after I'd requested it from the point...like I do in all barbecue joints.  I'm actually amazed at the ones who don't know the difference.


gary s said:


> I'm sorry I meant Stanley's here in Tyler.  It's been a long time since I ate a Stanley's in Jville  They use to be pretty good, I guess everything changes.
> 
> Just Like Bodacious BBQ,   Roland (the guy who started it) always had exceptional BBQ  He tried to maintain that in the Franchise stores, Before he would sell a franchise you had to come work at his Bodacious for a long time, then he would decide. After you opened a store he may show up and spend months working with you in your store. But Roland got sick and just couldn't do it anymore.
> 
> He eventually closed his original location due to health, recently his son-in-law reopened it, I haven't tried it since he did.
> 
> Roland was was of the most passionate BBQ guys I ever met  He wanted it right, or he wouldn't sell it. I miss that guy.
> 
> Sonny Bryan was the same way in Dallas, but Sonny passed. His kids run it now.
> 
> Gary


Ah yeah...Stanley's in Tyler is good.  I actually think it's a lot better now than it was a few years ago.  Didn't they have a change of ownership?  But, that was Stacy's in Jacksonville.  I talked to a guy in there who told me it used to be a lot better, but Stacy retired in 2008 and it went downhill from there.  Now, the son runs it.

Do you ever go to the Red Dirt BBQ and Music Fest in Tyler?  It's on May 14th this year...this is the 3rd year they've had it, and will be our 3rd year to attend.  They have some of the best joints in the state there.  Last year they had 18 barbecue joints...this year will be 20.  All the big boys, except Franklin's, Pecan Lodge, and Snow's.  And, you get a good-sized sample from them all included in the ticket price.

http://reddirtbbqfest.com/


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## gary s

Never attended, But its a big deal lots of good eats.   Yeah Stanley's changed owners, finally started leaving some fat on their briskets, The guy and his wife that own it now have really improved it, To me it use to be terrible, better now but not the top of my list.  There is a little place over by Lake Tyler about 5 min. from me that is open Thur - Sat.  He has some great BBQ, first time I went he took me out back and showed me his pit.  Real deal straight flow and uses red oak. (Katie's)  But I like my own the best so we don't eat much BBQ out.  We go with the neighbors every once in a while to Spring Creek (a franchise out of Dallas) usually get chicken, their chicken is great. 

Gary


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## mickhlr

I hear you Gary.  I actually like mine pretty well too.  But, always looking for real Texas joints to try. 

This is what I did this past weekend.  All the guys ate the beef ribs and the ladies were watching their figures and ate the turkey breast. 













IMG_6969.JPG



__ mickhlr
__ Jan 20, 2016


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## gary s

MickHLR said:


> I hear you Gary.  I actually like mine pretty well too.  But, always looking for real Texas joints to try.
> 
> This is what I did this past weekend.  All the guys ate the beef ribs and the ladies were watching their figures and ate the turkey breast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_6969.JPG
> 
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> 
> __ mickhlr
> __ Jan 20, 2016


Oh, If I see a new BBQ joint, I have to try it. And I do have some favorites that I always eat at if I'm in the area

Gary


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## bigred77

a few days ago, Aaron turned Kanye West away when he tried to cut in line at Franklin's

Just one more reason Franklin's is awesome


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## sidpost

gary s said:


> Chopped or Sliced ?
> 
> Here in East Texas (Tyler Area)  We have several Chain stores and some Independents , I've seen a few, that when chopped is ordered they uncover a warmer and scoop out some chopped. You know right away that is leftovers and brisket that would not stand up to slicing.
> 
> I went to Dickey's BBQ the other day, just to give them another try. (Should have saved my Money) The brisket was over cooked and falling apart was a mess on the plate, should have put that in the chopped pile.  One of My favorite Places has consistent  BBQ if you order chopped they slice it off a brisket and chop it in front of you.
> 
> Gary


Tell me more!  What's best between Tyler/Longview and Sulphur Springs/Mount Pleasant!


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## gary s

sidpost said:


> Tell me more!  What's best between Tyler/Longview and Sulphur Springs/Mount Pleasant!


I just don't know anymore, seams like they have all gone down hill, Best bet is look for an independent that has a real smoker and try it.  There is a guy here in Whitehouse out by the lake  "Katie's BBQ"  open Thurs, Fri & Sat.  A nice guy with a SF pit that smokes over Oak  I like his. all the rest are just so so for chain stores. Since Roland got sick and closed the original Bodacious in Longview they have not been the same.

Got a Prime Rib Smoking as we speak

Gary


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## mtime7

when I go to Austin, I skip the line at Franklins and head about 2 miles down the street to J Mueller's , I think the Brisket there is awesome and you only have to wait maybe 15 minutes in line. J Mueller is the guy that taught Aron Franklin how to BBQ


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## tsenre45

I've eaten at a lot of Hill Country BBQ joints, and my favorite is Black's in Lockhart.  Franklin's was good, but waiting in line for 2 hours or more makes no sense to me when there are so many good places to choose from. The Salt Lick is amazing because of the number of people they serve with a quality product along with great atmosphere. They also have the best pork ribs around Austin.

But doing your own with just salt and pepper on a WSM at 225 for 15-18 hours with oak smoke wood is hard to beat!


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## quicksmokinq

Just a quick add on here from my recent visit.  My friend and I waited in line for about 3.5 hours and didn't even barely notice (we were 18th and 19th in line).  The people in line were great, atmosphere was perfect and they had chairs to borrow as you waited (the cooler of beer we brought didn't hurt either).  Once they opened the doors the line moved very fast and the brisket ALONE made every minute of the wait worth it - bought 2 POUNDS and ate every bit of it!!  Not even to mention the pulled pork and ribs that were delicious and perfectly smoked too!  I would recommend fighting the urge to skip it just because of a little wait in line and go for it!  I even got to take a quick selfie with Aaron Franklin when I went in to use the bathroom, it was a great experience!!


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## bilgeslime

I've recently read Franklin's book and it is instructive and entertaining. He covers the subject in depth but there is nothing more gratifying than smoking your own.

Ate at the Round rock Salt Lick a while back and will easily admit mine is better.


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## smokinpapist

S2K9K said:


> I'm sure his brisket is Awesome but the long lines are probably because he has made such a big name for himself by putting out a very quality product people will come from all over the country just to say they have eaten there!
> 
> Unlike Lady and Sons in Savannah. Paula Dean has made a big name for herself and to eat there you have to stand in line at 9am for 2 hours so you can get a number and come back in the afternoon and stand in line for 2 more hours just so you can eat some mediocre southern cooking.



Not to mention the food at Lady and Sons isn't that good. Much better eats in the Savannah and Hilton Head area.


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## newbsmoke

Sorry I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread but my coworker goes to Texas every year and swears by Sno BBQ.  How does that compare?


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## house of smoke

Aaron does wrap the pork butt. Saw video yesterday. He says 4-5 hours in, when the fat cap on top cracks, you know it's time to wrap.


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## bigred77

NewbSmoke said:


> Sorry I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread but my coworker goes to Texas every year and swears by Sno BBQ. How does that compare?


I havent been yet, Snow's is only open on Saturdays, its on my bucket list

I have heard its great,  I gotta hurry up and make it over there cause there is no telling how long Tootsie has left in this world


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## smoky jim

Just returned from Texas Hill Country. Visited Black's in Lockhart and Franklin's and Salt Lick in Austin.

Black's was fantastic. Brisket and sausages were excellent. Wasn't able to try other meats, as  they were running short on meats late in the day that we got there. Great atmosphere. Sides (bread, onions, pickles, etc.) were in eating area and self serve; I liked that as well. I'll have to try Smitty's and Kruez Market the next time trough town. Ditto for City Market in nearby Luling.

Skipped the line at Franklin's by ordering a whole brisket on-line prior to our visit to Austin.

Black's brisket was excellent, but Franklin's brisket is the gold standard IMHO. I've done some great ones myself on my own heavily modified Brinkman offset and my 22" WSM, but Aaron's ability to get superior meat and fine tune his preparation and cooking process through 1000's of repetitions is the key.

*Superior ingredients* (i.e. specially selected, trimmed and seasoned prime beef & post oak) + a* fine tuned process *(meat aging, fire management, temp control, smoke hours, wrap timing, wrapping, temperature attainment, resting, carving, presentation) + *customized tools* (homebuilt pits) + a *focus on Customer satisfaction + thoughtfulness/experience/professionalism/skills/innovation = world class product !!!! *      

That said, I may even stand in line next time I'm in Austin, as I would like to "experience" the sociology of the line and also try all of Aaron's other meats! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Salt Lick was OK. Brisket was not up to Black's or Franklin's level, but their ribs are pretty darn good! SL uses soy based sauces rather than tomato based which puts a different spin on things! Interesting contrast with the typical red sauces at most of the other joints.


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## mickhlr

Smoky Jim said:


> Just returned from Texas Hill Country. Visited Black's in Lockhart and Franklin's and Salt Lick in Austin.
> 
> Black's was fantastic. Brisket and sausages were excellent. Wasn't able to try other meats, as  they were running short on meats late in the day that we got there. Great atmosphere. Sides (bread, onions, pickles, etc.) were in eating area and self serve; I liked that as well. I'll have to try Smitty's and Kruez Market the next time trough town. Ditto for City Market in nearby Luling.
> 
> Salt Lick was OK. Brisket was not up to Black's or Franklin's level, but their ribs are pretty darn good! SL uses soy based sauces rather than tomato based which puts a different spin on things! Interesting contrast with the typical red sauces at most of the other joints.


Smoky Jim, next time you're in that area, go on up to Taylor, just a little ways north.  Louie Mueller's Barbecue has been doing it since 1949 in the same place.  Outstanding brisket and beef ribs!!  In my opinion, way better than Black's.  But, I also like Kreuz Mkt and Smitty's better than Black's.  And, I'm not saying Black's is bad...it is most definitely good barbecue.  Snow's in Lexington, just a little to the east of Austin is some of the best brisket I've ever eaten, and I've been to most all the best Texas barbecue joints.  Snow's brisket, like Franklin's, almost chews itself, and just melts in your mouth.  Another one consistently ranked in the top 5 is Pecan Lodge in Dallas.  But, unfortunately, I was not a fan...their brisket was way too fatty (and I always love the point) and didn't have the bark the aforementioned joints do.  And, I believe (not positive) that their beef ribs were chuck short ribs (ribs 2-5 above the brisket), where most joints do plate short ribs (ribs 6-8 behind the brisket).  There just seems to be less meat, and more connective tissue and sinew in the chuck ribs than the plate ribs.  I had the same experience with beef ribs at Black's...so, I kinda think they also use the beef chuck ribs.  

You hit the nail on the head about Salt Lick though.  It's a nice tourist attraction, and they serve a couple thousand people a day, with a great party atmosphere.  But, their meats are just not up to standard.  I'm a beef guy, being born and raised in Texas, so I didn't try their pork ribs, which is what I think you're talking about when you say "ribs".  For the most part, their meat is dry and tasteless...because they do all their smoking on some huge gas-fired smokers, but I don't think their meat gets much smoke at all.  Then, they just throw some out there on those little fire pits to make people think their meat comes from there...when in reality, it's not even close.  It's definitely an experience...but just don't go there expecting the same quality of barbecue as Franklin's, Snow's, Louie Mueller's, Black's, Kreuz Market, and Smitty's. 

A few other really good joints in Austin are John Mueller Meat Co, La Barbecue, Micklethwait Craft Meats, and Stiles Switch.  If you're ever down a little further south, check out Killen's in Pearland.  And, a little further out west in the Hill Country, it's always nice to visit Cooper's Old Time Pit BBQ in Llano.


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## mickhlr

Smoky Jim said:


> Just returned from Texas Hill Country. Visited Black's in Lockhart and Franklin's and Salt Lick in Austin.
> 
> Skipped the line at Franklin's by ordering a whole brisket on-line prior to our visit to Austin.


Smoky Jim, you are also the second person today that has mentioned pre-ordering a whole brisket from Franklin's.  So, I just wondered if you minded telling us how much that set you back?


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## smoky jim

Franklin's charges $20 per pound for brisket. The brisket's they provide for the telephone / web pre-orders are

between 5 & 6 lbs. So I shelled out $117 for the 5.4 pounder I lugged home on the airplane.


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## desertsubi

carry on sir?  I would have loved to have been in that luggage compartment for a few hours.


Smoky Jim said:


> Franklin's charges $20 per pound for brisket. The brisket's they provide for the telephone / web pre-orders are
> 
> between 5 & 6 lbs. So I shelled out $117 for the 5.4 pounder I lugged home on the airplane.


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## bigred77

MickHLR said:


> Smoky Jim, next time you're in that area, go on up to Taylor, just a little ways north.  Louie Mueller's Barbecue has been doing it since 1949 in the same place.  Outstanding brisket and beef ribs!!  In my opinion, way better than Black's.  But, I also like Kreuz Mkt and Smitty's better than Black's.  And, I'm not saying Black's is bad...it is most definitely good barbecue.  Snow's in Lexington, just a little to the east of Austin is some of the best brisket I've ever eaten, and I've been to most all the best Texas barbecue joints.  Snow's brisket, like Franklin's, almost chews itself, and just melts in your mouth.  Another one consistently ranked in the top 5 is Pecan Lodge in Dallas.  But, unfortunately, I was not a fan...their brisket was way too fatty (and I always love the point) and didn't have the bark the aforementioned joints do.  And, I believe (not positive) that their beef ribs were chuck short ribs (ribs 2-5 above the brisket), where most joints do plate short ribs (ribs 6-8 behind the brisket).  There just seems to be less meat, and more connective tissue and sinew in the chuck ribs than the plate ribs.  I had the same experience with beef ribs at Black's...so, I kinda think they also use the beef chuck ribs.
> 
> You hit the nail on the head about Salt Lick though.  It's a nice tourist attraction, and they serve a couple thousand people a day, with a great party atmosphere.  But, their meats are just not up to standard.  I'm a beef guy, being born and raised in Texas, so I didn't try their pork ribs, which is what I think you're talking about when you say "ribs".  For the most part, their meat is dry and tasteless...because they do all their smoking on some huge gas-fired smokers, but I don't think their meat gets much smoke at all.  Then, they just throw some out there on those little fire pits to make people think their meat comes from there...when in reality, it's not even close.  It's definitely an experience...but just don't go there expecting the same quality of barbecue as Franklin's, Snow's, Louie Mueller's, Black's, Kreuz Market, and Smitty's.
> 
> A few other really good joints in Austin are John Mueller Meat Co, La Barbecue, Micklethwait Craft Meats, and Stiles Switch.  If you're ever down a little further south, check out Killen's in Pearland.  And, a little further out west in the Hill Country, it's always nice to visit Cooper's Old Time Pit BBQ in Llano.



This man speaks the truth


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