# Beef - Corned Beef and Pastrami



## pops6927 (Feb 22, 2017)

I contacted several local chain stores to find the best buy on bottom round beef roast.  Most were uncaring, rude, difficult and even obnoxious - except for one: WinCo!  So, that is where I went, of course.  The phone line (unlike the others) was crystal clear, you could hear every word.  I spoke to the meat manager directly, his name is Travis.  Told him I wanted a center-cut beef bottom round roast.  Not from the rump or from the heel, but in the middle where the shape was more uniform, about 5-6 lbs.  

I went in and rang the buzzer, Larry the meat cutter came out, I told him what I wanted (mind you, I am in a chair and no teeth, I am surprised he didn't ask to see my money first, lol, and I talk very slow and haltingly, too) but, he did not, he thanked me for allowing him to serve me and promptly went back to cut it for me.

In the meantime, I spoke to Travis and special-ordered a fresh ham to be picked up March 14th and complimented the service Larry provided.  He came out with a 6 lb beef center cut bottom round roast, leaving a bit of the eye attached to make sure it was even:  I expected nothing less; he went a little over 6 lbs - never undercut, always shoot for the maximum!  Wonderful job!













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I unwrapped it and scored a line on it where I will cut off a small portion for corned beef.













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My wife does not like corned beef, but I do!  So that will be for my dinner on St. Pat's day, March 16th.  I'll set it aside in a pan in the fridge until St. Pat's day.  

I assembled all the ingredients for the processing - sugar, salt, brown sugar, curing salt, pickling spices, etc:













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I mixed up my Lo Salt curing brine, 2 gallons:













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added water, stirred until clear.

Then, I injected the beef in 2 spots on each end with the broadcast (not artery) tip:













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(the tip with all the holes in it)

Then, injected it so there was no more area greater than 2 inches around, so it would cure from the inside-out as well as the outside-in:













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Then, into the curing brine, and into the fridge (no top weight needed, dense enough to sink to the bottom):













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Put it to bed until I pull it on March 14th, cut off the corned beef portion 1/3rd (put in a covered container until Friday, March 16th back in the fridge), then sack up the remainder 2/3rds and into the smokehouse for pastrami!  When 160°, I'll remove it, remove the stockinette, and put in a bucket into the fridge to cool, then slice it on my slicer for pastrami reuben sandwiches!

See you then!


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## tropics (Feb 22, 2017)

March 16th you must be Irish getting a jump on it.

I'll be watching,drooling already

Richie


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## crankybuzzard (Feb 22, 2017)

I'll watch a Pop's cure any time!


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## smokeymose (Feb 22, 2017)

I've done brisket flats for Corned Beef/Pastrami using your brine a few times Pops, and it works very well.
I'm watching this...[emoji]128578[/emoji]
Dan


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## pc farmer (Feb 22, 2017)

YUP....   I am on board for this.


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## noboundaries (Feb 22, 2017)

Pops, can't wait to see the CB and Pastrami! 

Points for your comments about Larry and Travis at Winco!  I hope you let the folks at the Winco know how they helped you.   

I'm not a Winco employee, but I am a die-hard Winco shopper, a relatively new one, about a year old.  I have always found the staff there in all departments friendly and helpful.  Heck, even the shoppers seem to be friendlier than normal! 

Winco gets 99.5% of my meat purchases due to their quality and low prices.  I have two full service grocery stores within a half mile of my house, but I drive 6 miles to the Winco for the prices and service.  Sure, you pack your own groceries, but I need the exercise!


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## JckDanls 07 (Feb 22, 2017)

You know I'm in...  When Pop's speaks....  I listen ...    :drool


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## tardissmoker (Feb 22, 2017)

JckDanls 07 said:


> You know I'm in...  When Pop's speaks....  I listen ...    :drool



Amen, brother. Praise the lard, or is that lord, I have a hard time spelling Americam!


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## SmokinAl (Feb 23, 2017)

Hard not to watch when Pops is curing something!

I'm in too!

Al


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## dirtsailor2003 (Feb 23, 2017)

Looking good so far! I'll be hanging around for the finish!


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## ptcruiserguy (Feb 23, 2017)

Gotta watch this one!!! Learn something new from Pops everytime!!

Happy Smokin'

Mike


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## bdskelly (Feb 23, 2017)

Nice step by step Pop.  Awesome demonstration of your time tested process.  Brian


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## myownidaho (Feb 23, 2017)

Can't wait to see the final product!


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## ab canuck (Feb 23, 2017)

Wow, I am definitely in for this, A learning lesson for me .......


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## stovebolt (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm in for sure. 

Chuck


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## actech (Feb 25, 2017)

Gonna watch this too. I actually have an eye of round 1 week into pops brine.


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## geezer (Feb 27, 2017)




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## disco (Feb 28, 2017)

I look forward to this, Pops!

Disco


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## pa42phigh (Mar 7, 2017)

Thx for sharing. What's a good total time on the cure


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## pops6927 (Mar 7, 2017)

I injected it and put it in the curing brine on Wednesday, Feb. 22nd, will pull it out of the brine on Tuesday,  March 14th.  Will smoke the larger part for pastrami on Tuesday 22nd and reserve the corned beef portion to cook with cabbage, onions, potatoes and carrots on Friday the 17th, St. Pat's day.


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## pops6927 (Mar 7, 2017)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/pops6927s-curing-brines-regular-and-lo-salt
[h1]Pops6927's Curing Brines - Regular and Lo-Salt[/h1]




By: Pops6927

Posted 10/27/14 • Last updated 10/27/14 • 2,297 views • 0 comments

These are my Curing brines for pork, beef (corned and dried), poultry, and so on.

Regular Curing Brine:

1 gallon of clean water

1 cup plain, regular non-iodized table salt

1 cup sugar or sucrolose

1 cup brown sugar or sucrolose equiv.

1 tablespoon of Cure#1

Lo-Salt Curing Brine:

1 gallon of clean water

½ cup plain, regular non-iodized rable salt

½ cup sugar or sucrolose 

½ cup brown sugar or sucrolose equiv.

1 tablespoon of Cure #1

mix in food-safe container, stir until clear.

Add meat.  Do not add different species of meats, but you can add pieces of the same species.

Refrigerate 1 to 21 days, depending on thickness of meat. 

Up to 2 inches, 1-10 days.

2 - 4 inches, 5 - 15 days, may require injecting to cure from the inside-out as well as from the outside-in.

4 inches and larger.  15 - 21 days, requires injecting.

Injecting - use a Morton's injection 4 oz. manual injection pump with the Broadcast needle.













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or equivalent.

Brine can become frothy (ropy).  It has both salt and sugar in it.  It also is inputting curing ingredients into the meat and oozing out blood and plasma.  Just dump the brine and make up fresh and continue curing should that happen.  Make sure you keep it at 38° - 40°.  

Weigh down meat into curing brine with half-filled ziploc bags of water on top.

No further mixing or stirring required, let it cure until done.  Meats will come out of the brine wish a distinct grayish look.  This is normal.

Cure #1:

I use this as reference:













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Computing equivalency, for 100 gallons of curing brine, you add 24 lbs. of curing salt to 100 gallons of water and mix.

That is .24 lbs, or 3.84 oz. of curing salt to 1 gallon of water maximum.

My recipe calls for 1 tablespoon of curing salt to 1 gallon of water.  A level tablespoon is .88 of an ounce.  Heaping is approx. 1 ounce.  Either is fine.  Neither comes close to the maximum amount allowed, but just enough to do the job.  Curing at Maximum, plus with injection, requires 48 hours of cure time maximum.  This process uses less than one third the curing salt and a longer curing time to tenderize and flavor the meat.

You must cover the product until it floats off the bottom of the container, then weight it down to stay submersed in the brine, leaving no area to be exposed to air.  You must keep at 38° to 40° until curing time is over.  Remove from brine, put or hang in smokehouse or smoker.  I personally go from refrigeration to heat with no wait time myself.  There is different thoughts, whether to allow a pellicle to form or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellicle_(cooking)

A pellicle is mainly, to my knowledge, allowed to form on fish prior to smoking.  We were only 30 miles from Salmon River in Pulaski, NY, a very well known salmon run.  We had many bring us their salmon to process and usually allowed a pellicle to form  But, pork and beef are not tender like fish.

Anything I have left out or any questions, be sure to PM me!  Don't hesitate!


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## pops6927 (Mar 11, 2017)

Called WinCo - fresh ham is arriving tomorrow, will pick up Tuesday afternoon, inject it and put it in the brine on Wednesday and start a new thread on it in the Pork section!  MMmmmmm!

Smoking the bottom round for pastrami Tuesday morning!  Plenty more to come!


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## pops6927 (Mar 14, 2017)

Tuesday, March 14th!  Smoking Day!

Got the bucket out of the back fridge and took it into the kitchen on my rollaround butcher block cart, slid it off the cart onto the counter (standard counter height, best thing I ever bought!) and slowly dumped out the brine, along with the meat into the clean sink.  Then, put it on the counter on one of my cutting blocks, showing the cut line I'd earlier established (at least a few points of it that I could see, enough to know where I wanted to cut it):













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... and cut off a piece for corned beef and cabbage!













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OMG!  It didn't cure inside!!! ..... lol... that is just the 'inside color', because it was not exposed to the air - oxygen.  This is called "oxymyoglobin".  

More on that later!

Now, sack up the bigger part to go into the smokehouse:













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Cut off the excess stockinette, tie a square knot in it, slide a hook through it and ready for the smokehouse!













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Reserve the corned beef in a container for cooking later (will put a container top on it), plus the corned beef in stockinette to hang in the smokehouse:













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Fired it up, shut the doors, and 15 minutes later....













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SHMOKIN' !!  Still blue, not so thin, first pan of wood chunks, but they will burn down!  Nothing excites me more than to see and smell the smokehouse going, just like when we were kids, our bedroom was right over the smokehouse room and we'd wake up in the morning to a cloud full of smoky goodness!  I will add an A-MAZE-N 5x8 pan of corn cob pellets to the mailbox mod for a sweeter touch, too!













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Will check back later!  Destination temp is 155° internal!


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## crankybuzzard (Mar 14, 2017)

I'll watch a Pop's cure/cook/smoke any time!

Should be good stuff coming soon!


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## pops6927 (Mar 14, 2017)

Fired up the pellet tray and put it in the mailbox.  Opened the circular hole on the mailbox for intake draft and closed the bottom air intake vent on the smokehouse so the pellet smoke would input into the chamber!

CLOSED the bottom air intake vent on the smokehouse

:













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INSERTED the smouldering pellet tray into the mailbox mod:













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OPENED the air intake vent on the mailbox mod so fresh air will be sucked in there vs. the bottom intake smokehouse vent, and likewise air provides the necessary intake to keep the pellets smouldering!













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You can find out everything you need to know about Amazen Products at www.amazenproducts.com - Todd Johnson, owner.  Check out their tube units!  My next purchase for smoking in my grill!  And Todd is a Super Moderator here on SMF, and gives literally THE BEST! Customer Service of anybody in any company!  You can buy from Todd with complete confidence, he backs up his products 100%!

Smoke pouring in the chamber through the holes drilled into the smokehouse from the mailbox mod!  By redirecting the airflow from the bottom of the smokehouse to the mailbox, draft is created and out though the upper exit vent (smoke pouring out in the previous photos).













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## tropics (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm Drooling LOL

Richie


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## browneyesvictim (Mar 14, 2017)

Oh my Pops! This is one heck of a thread! I'm tuned in and anxiously awaiting your final results.

I might have missed it, but why did you choose a bottom round versus the traditional brisket?


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## cmayna (Mar 14, 2017)

All I can say is WOW!!  I want to start expanding my smoking to beef to make a corned beef, etc.   This thread is obviously one to follow, to learn.  Thanks Pops for providing so much detail.


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## daveomak (Mar 14, 2017)

Great thread Pops....    
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






....


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## crankybuzzard (Mar 14, 2017)

I use ham bags a LOT for turkeys and chickens, now I have to try making a brisket in one!


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## pops6927 (Mar 14, 2017)

Just checked the internal temp - 118°.  Right on track!  About another 3 hours!


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## crazymoon (Mar 14, 2017)

Pops, What a great post and a delicious looking hunk of meat !


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## smokeymose (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm going to have to have a look at these stockinette bags!


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## pc farmer (Mar 14, 2017)

Lookin great Pops.   I am going to build a smoke house this spring


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## crankybuzzard (Mar 14, 2017)

SmokeyMose said:


> I'm going to have to have a look at these stockinette bags!



I buy them 100 at a time and go through about that many each year.  Great for smoking turkey, chicken, and hams.  I also use them as boiling bags for herbs and hops.


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## pops6927 (Mar 14, 2017)

Well... the best laid plans of mice and men.... the 3 hours turned into 7 hours, had a 4 hour stall, finally hit 155°!  Took it out of the smokehouse, laid it in the sink:













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Took it out of the stockinette and a few views:













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and into a bucket and into the fridge to chill until tomorrow!  Then, TO THE SLICER!!!


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## bdskelly (Mar 14, 2017)

Looks perfect my friend. I can be over in 20 minutes to ummm help with that slicing! Brian


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## crankybuzzard (Mar 14, 2017)

The drool has begun!   Looking forward to the slices!


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## actech (Mar 15, 2017)

Looking good pops ! 












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Here's a shot of the eye of round I did with your brine. It turned out Really good, but one question. How much of the sugar can I eliminate from the brine and it still work correctly ? I can taste the sweet to it and my personal preference is to not have the Sweet. I don't like honey ham , pineapple glazed ham. But I love how easy the brine is. Awesome stuff Pops !!


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## pops6927 (Mar 15, 2017)

Browneyesvictim said:


> Oh my Pops! This is one heck of a thread! I'm tuned in and anxiously awaiting your final results.
> 
> I might have missed it, but why did you choose a bottom round versus the traditional brisket?


I wanted to make both corned beef for St. Pattie's Day plus smoked Pastrami for sandwiches, and the center cut bottom round would stay firm enough to slice into nice-sized slices for sandwiches.  The piece I cut off for corned beef I will cook to 205° or higher so it will shred, but the larger piece for pastrami only to 155° for slicing.


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## pops6927 (Mar 15, 2017)

actech said:


> Looking good pops !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can eliminate all of it if you wish - it is for flavoring only.  All you really need is 1 gallon of water, 1 oz (heaping tablespoon) of curing salt and ½ cup of table salt.


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## pops6927 (Mar 15, 2017)

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Ham Bags from Butcher & Packer  (www.butcher-packer.com)


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## crankybuzzard (Mar 15, 2017)

Pops6927 said:


> ham bag 100.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's where I get them, and trust me, you'll find a use for all of those bags.


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## pops6927 (Mar 15, 2017)

Slicing!

First of all, I got a new slicer for Christmas.  Another Nesco, FS-250 model, with 8.7" Blade and side thickness control from Walmart at a good price!













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photos of it:













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I love the side slicing control!  Doesn't widen out like the old one did. 

(Late last night, after the roast cooled, I had to make sure I found the correct cross-grain.... ahem....)













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Brought it out today, and started slicing it...













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As i sliced it, was easily able to thin it up nicely.













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Finished it!  Smaller container is for my chiropractor (going tomorrow), larger container is for us plus what's on the plate:













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Now... doesn't it look delicious!  Being cured, it will keep in the fridge for 2 weeks (doubt it will last that long.. lol!)

The flavor?  The pickling spices made a very nice difference added at the start of the curing; instead of a dried beef flavor, it was more aromatic, smoked corned beef flavor.  Cooked perfectly to the right temp!

I call it a success!  Can't wait until Friday for making the corned beef and cabbage, too!


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## pops6927 (Mar 15, 2017)

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Pastrami with brown mustard, swiss cheese and sauerkraut - absolutely delicious!  (Forgot to get rye bread, but plenty left for more!)

Grilled on my 'new' panini... um..... 10 year old George Foreman Grill!  Works like a charm for toasting sandwiches!


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## myownidaho (Mar 15, 2017)

Pops6927 said:


> IMG_3633.JPG
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> 
> 
> ...



Now that's a sandwich...


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## pc farmer (Mar 15, 2017)

Great thread Pops.

That meat looks beautiful


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## smokeymose (Mar 15, 2017)

Man, that's pretty, Pops! Can't wait for the slices..


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## whistech (Mar 15, 2017)

Pops, you are the master at curing  and smoking and I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge with us wantabes.    Your pastrami looks absolutely delicious.   It's on my list to do soon.


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## JckDanls 07 (Mar 15, 2017)

:77:   :77:  :77:


What else can I say !!!!


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## bdskelly (Mar 15, 2017)

The King of Cure.  Best thread I've read in a long time Pops.  B


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## tropics (Mar 16, 2017)

Pops those slices perfect sandwiches 

Richie


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## ab canuck (Mar 17, 2017)

Pops, that looks absolutely amazing, Definitely on the list this spring......


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## pops6927 (Mar 17, 2017)

The final 'proof-is-in-the-pudding' was cooking the corned beef piece, which I did today in between doing the ham and arm shoulder:













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put the piece I'd sliced off the cured beef roast in a pot of water and started it simmering.  It simmered from 10 am until 2:30 pm until it hit an internal temperature of 208°, when I removed it from the heat and chilled it - had to go to our son's annual (22nd) Open House at ThumbTech's.  Got home, removed it and tested it for shredding....













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Voila!  Success!  Shredded with ease, and delicious, too!


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## pops6927 (Mar 17, 2017)

Thank you all for all the wonderful comments and for looking!


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## jtgjr (Mar 17, 2017)

Just. . . WOW. Saving this thread for reference. Impressive Pops. Happy St. Patty's!


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## stovebolt (Mar 20, 2017)

Another great thread, Pops. Point for sure.

Chuck


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## tjohnson (Mar 28, 2017)

Corned beef is my favorite!
Nothing worse than getting a bag Reuben sandwich at a restaurant
After making my own corned beef and pastrami, I will never buy it in a restaurant again

Great Job Pops!


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## crankybuzzard (Mar 28, 2017)

TJohnson said:


> Corned beef is my favorite!
> 
> Nothing worse than getting a bag Reuben sandwich at a restaurant
> 
> ...



Amen to that!

The first time my bride tasted my homemade corned beef, she accused me of serving her an exotic meat!   

There's that big of a difference.


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## smokeymose (Mar 28, 2017)

CrankyBuzzard said:


> Amen to that!
> 
> The first time my bride tasted my homemade corned beef, she accused me of serving her an exotic meat!
> 
> There's that big of a difference.


And not paying $10.99 a lb is just icing on the cake!  [emoji]128522[/emoji]


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## Walchit (Mar 27, 2019)

I need to get a garage fridge! Would love to make my own pastrami, yours looks really good.


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## pops6927 (Mar 28, 2019)

Just convince your wife you need a new fridge for your house, and 'store' the old one out in the garage as a beer cooler/extra freezer space/stocking up Easter eggs/making Jell-O shots/ etc.!


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## pops6927 (Jan 5, 2020)

Since making this post, I had two major heart attacks (the EMT's had to use the paddles on me 3 times to bring me back!) this past spring of 2019, and having to eliminate as much salt as possible from my diet, and I am diabetic, so sugars have to go too!  Small sacrifice for living vs. passing!  So, I am planning on eliminating any excess salts or sugars, going only with 2 heaping tablespoons (2 oz.) of pink salt (sodium nitrite and plain salt, 6.25% and 97.75% resp.) per 1 gallon of potable water, stirred, not heated (unnecessary, it will easily dissolve by itself), plus pickling spices, 1 tablespoon.  Cure and inject for 14 days minimum, then smoke for pastrami, simmer for corned beef.  Will it be the same? Oh, of course not!  But, it will be healthier!  And, at my age and condition, that is important, also!


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## Jabiru (Jan 5, 2020)

pops6927
 . Great post, read all of it, thank you. I am sorry to hear of your health problems.

one thing I remember you telling me is always wash the meat out of vac pack before putting in the brine, it was a great tip and actually stopped my brines going ropy.


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## Lyle sinden (Mar 7, 2020)

pops6927 said:


> Since making this post, I had two major heart attacks (the EMT's had to use the paddles on me 3 times to bring me back!) this past spring of 2019, and having to eliminate as much salt as possible from my diet, and I am diabetic, so sugars have to go too!  Small sacrifice for living vs. passing!  So, I am planning on eliminating any excess salts or sugars, going only with 2 heaping tablespoons (2 oz.) of pink salt (sodium nitrite and plain salt, 6.25% and 97.75% resp.) per 1 gallon of potable water, stirred, not heated (unnecessary, it will easily dissolve by itself), plus pickling spices, 1 tablespoon.  Cure and inject for 14 days minimum, then smoke for pastrami, simmer for corned beef.  Will it be the same? Oh, of course not!  But, it will be healthier!  And, at my age and condition, that is important, also!


I’m a Knewby to brining pastrami, but years ago purchased a bag of now discontinued Morton’s smoke flavored sugar cure. My ? is could this be substituted for the curing salt even though it’s not recommended for brining and if so how much per gallon?


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## daveomak (Mar 8, 2020)

Lyle sinden said:


> I’m a Knewby to brining pastrami, but years ago purchased a bag of now discontinued Morton’s smoke flavored sugar cure. My ? is could this be substituted for the curing salt even though it’s not recommended for brining and if so how much per gallon?





No.....  It can NOT be used as curing salt as it does not contain sodium nitrite.....

You would be best served if you purchased/used cure#1...  Salt + Sodium Nitrite (6.25%) ..  Use it at the rate of 1 tsp. per 5#'s of stuff...  That gets you to ~150 Ppm nitrite....
If you have 5#'s of meat and 2 quarts of liquid, that's approx. 9#'s of stuff...


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