# 4 hour 140*



## harleysmoker (Dec 31, 2011)

Can someone explain to me the 4 hour 140* thing and why you shouldn't probe the meat until  after it hits 140*?

I understand to get the meat temperature up so it don't grow bacteria but I don't understand why inserting the thermometer probe in the meat as soon as it is placed on the smoker is bad. I always put the probe  in at the beginning and if it is a bad idea I will quit doing it.


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## alblancher (Dec 31, 2011)

The outside of the meat can harbor bacteria. By pushing a thermo or fork through this layer you are "innoculating" the meat.


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## SmokinAl (Dec 31, 2011)

You can put the probe in at the beginning, but if you do the internal meat temp must reach 135 in 4 hours. If you don't probe it in the beginning the outside 1/2" has to reach 135 in 4 hours. The new guidelines from the USDA are the danger zone is now 41-135, instead of the old one 40-140.


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## harleysmoker (Jan 1, 2012)

ah ok, thanks for explaining


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 3, 2012)

Harley, just put your meat in the Smoker and let it go an hour to kill any nasties on the outside...Then probe it and finish the Smoke...JJ


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## fpnmf (Jan 3, 2012)

I put the the therm in when the meat goes in.

I am quite confident that the temp will reach the proper place in plenty of time in a well heated smoker.

One less time to open the lid.

Never had a problem with this.

  Craig


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## rbranstner (Jan 3, 2012)

I use to probe right away but on several occasions I would be sitting there watching my temps and I would know something was off as the temps hadn't moved in a long time (And it wasn't because of a stall) so I would go out and move the probe a bit or re probe the meat and I would find that my actual temps were much higher then what the thermometer was saying. I have never gotten a good explanation on why my thermometer would just sit there until I move the probe a bit but it has happened on numerous occasions with multiple thermometers. If I let the meat go a few hours then probe it then I have never had an issue. Call me crazy but that is my experience.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 3, 2012)

Ross you are not crazy...The first stick may not always be the best place and I am starting to see more and more crazy stuff happen with big hunks of meat...JJ


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## venture (Jan 3, 2012)

I use 40 to 140 not because it is technically exact but because it is easy to remember and does add a little extra margin.  As long as you reach 135 in 4 hours, you can probe whenever you want.

Ross, I always verify with my instant read stick.  Trusting one thermometer has gotten me in trouble too many times.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## SmokinAl (Jan 3, 2012)

Same here Merv, when the therm says it's done I poke it a few places with my Thermapen to make sure, and the numbers are usually all over the place. I just make sure that the lowest one is in the safe zone.


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## graystratcat (Jan 3, 2012)

x2 what Al said.  I use my Thermapen for the final readings too...don't be afraid to probe quite a few places.  Gives you a good average.


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## sprky (Jan 3, 2012)

SmokinAl said:


> Same here Merv, when the therm says it's done I poke it a few places with my Thermapen to make sure, and the numbers are usually all over the place. I just make sure that the lowest one is in the safe zone.





GrayStratCat said:


> x2 what Al said.  I use my Thermapen for the final readings too...don't be afraid to probe quite a few places.  Gives you a good average.


I always check with another thermometer, but I don't check more then 1 spot guess I need to start checking multiple spots. Thanks for the heads up


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## big casino (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey Fellas, i also heard if you sear your Butt(hehe) or brisket first that it kills the bacteria that you are worried about plunging into your meat, can anyone confirm or deny this as truth....

Sorry in a goofy mood today


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## graystratcat (Jan 3, 2012)

Searing would kill the surface bacteria no doubt.  You'd just want to make sure you seared completely or at least in the places you'd want to insert a temp probe.  Not really sure it's worth it... but that's my very humble $0.02....

I would also think that searing would toughen up the outside surface which could inhibit smoke penetration since that high heat would tighten up the muscle mass/surface....I've never seared before smoking but would be interested in what others have to say or if they've tried it.

-Salt


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## alblancher (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Casino

Thats like taking a blow torch and hitting the outside of the meat   As  long as the first 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so is hot enough to kill the bad guys then yes you are ok.  There are charts detailing how long the meat has to stay at a particular temp to be safe.    The hotter it is the shorter the amount of time.  The more humidity in the cooking chamber the shorter the time   remember steam cooks faster then a dry oven.  The numbers we use are best guess and recommended by USDA.   If the sear gets the temp deep enough it is safe.  But I am thinking about the difference between degrees of burn on skin.  Skin can handle a very hot flash for a very short period of time with just surface damage while a prolonged lower temperature will cause more damage.   Has something to do with the amount of moisture in the surface and how long it takes to boil out.    Like licking your fingers to remove a hot light bulb.


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## venture (Jan 4, 2012)

Academically, Al and I agree.

We are very careful with food safety because we cook at low temps.  Also, we cure meat and cold smoke which is very dangerous for those who do not study.

The killing of the germs is not a magic temp.  It is actually a matter of temp and time combined. Germs can be killed at lower temps than we state if we hold that temp for extended periods.  I don't recommend getting into the details of that, because some might take it wrong and make somebody sick.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## harleysmoker (Jan 4, 2012)

All good reading, thanks. This reminds me of my grandpa who salt cured a  pig he raised and butchered his self. He had leg quarters on his workbench in the shed. I was about 12 years old in ohio at this time and thought it was wrong to have big pieces of meat laying on a work bench in that shed, its not a cooler. He had it covered in salt and would tend to it daily. 

I will tell you that was the best damn pork I have ever ate and I asked years later  why he never done it again. The only thing he could say was you can't, something in the grain you feed them ,he couldn't tell me exactly,  but just said you can't.

Him and my grandma was from West Virginia and canned everything, I really miss them, walking into their cellar was like a kid in a candy store.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 5, 2012)

GrayStratCat said:


> Searing would kill the surface bacteria no doubt.  You'd just want to make sure you seared completely or at least in the places you'd want to insert a temp probe.  Not really sure it's worth it... but that's my very humble $0.02....
> 
> I would also think that searing would toughen up the outside surface which could inhibit smoke penetration since that high heat would tighten up the muscle mass/surface....I've never seared before smoking but would be interested in what others have to say or if they've tried it.
> 
> -Salt


As Salt said Searing is more trouble than it's worth and would definitely inhibit smoke penetration...Realistically what is an hour wait going to cost you? None of us have that kind of patience to set it and forget it, we all Peek!...Like little kids, too much excited anticipation!!!...JJ


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## alblancher (Jan 5, 2012)

Yea some of the old techniques are fascinating.  Salt curing pork is as much an art and tradition as it is a technique.  Many people still salt cure pork but we have decided not to recommend that procedure on this forum.  The majority of our members are unfamiliar with proper food preparation and the last thing we want to do is offer advice that can get someone sick.

Properly salt curing pork requires a good deal of skill and experience.


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## supercenterchef (Jan 7, 2012)

Casino:  biggest problem I see with that method, is that even if it is seared perfectly, etc--your probe would have to be sterile as well...too many variables for my comfort!  :)


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## siletzspey (Jan 8, 2012)

I usually put 1 wireless probe in at the start, then no spot probing with another thermometer until the wireless goes past 140. I have wondered about the merits of a one-time pink-salt (nitrate) steralization dip for the first probe. Thoughts?

I usually blast by 140 in 4, but last night I put two 12.5lb-trimmed briskets into the WSM, it was 39F outside, and I held back and only filled the ring to 75% full. I went to bed after 3 hours total with an IT of 131 and airT of 246, and after 7:45 hours total I woke to an IT of 154 and airT of 192. The charcoal was nearly gone :-( I think I'm safe, but I hate even having a doubt. I carefully placed some additional briquettes into the WSM, but it never recovered, so I pulled and foiled at 150 IT.

--SiletzSpey


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## mneeley490 (Jan 8, 2012)

So what about a compromise? Take a kitchen torch and sear 1 spot on the meat, say 1" square. Then insert your (clean) probe in at that point?

BTW, this is the first I've heard about this. I have always put in my probe at the beginning when I put in the meat, and I have never had a problem, but I will start timing it from now on.


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## call the hogs (Jan 9, 2012)

Wow, I need to watch this temp at 4 hour more often. All the different things Ive read on the Internet was to pull the Meat out for a hour or so before smoking. Now Ive always inserted my temp probe in right when I pull the meat out of the fridge. Usually about 37 degrees. Now as it sits there, for a hour or so its usually around 47-50 degrees. So the clock has already started clicking on the 40-140-4hr rule correct. Hmmm. Havent had no problems, I guess because I insert the probe in below 40!


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## alblancher (Jan 9, 2012)

You haven't had problems because

1.  You are lucky

2.  The meat was basically germ free prior to smoking

3.  You are probably a pretty healthy person that can handle a bit of food poisoning once in a while and not notice it !

The biggest mistake you made was penetrating the outside of the meat before it reached safe temps.  Remember when dealing with whole muscle meat the 4 hour rule does not apply as long as it isn't penetrated, moving bacteria into the interior of the meat. 

Next time insert the thermo about an hour into the smoke.  It's safer and you are not messing anything up.  Same with sterilized injections and needles.  You can inject all you want as long as the marinade and needle are sterile and you do it after the surface of the meat has reached a safe temp.

Good Luck and welcome to the forum  I'm expecting to see some Qview here pretty soon.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 12, 2012)

Many people have gotten away with inserting the probes from the beginning, or Injecting whatever, without issue because, although most of the bacteria on the outside that get pushed in will multiply while the meat is smoking, they are killed when the IT goes over 140*F...The reason for waiting an hour before inserting, or injecting, which for me is easier then fooling around with a torch, searing any part or the entire surface or any other one of the really creative things you guys have come up with is... Every once in awhile a type of bacteria can be introduced that although they themselves don't hurt you, create a Toxin as part of their feeding and reproduction that can cause serious illness and it does not matter how long you cook it or to what temp, does not get rid of these toxins...So it is just a good idea to wait, sterilize your probe or needles with Alcohol, no need to use Cure, and be as safe as possible...Just In Case!...JJ


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## harleysmoker (Jan 14, 2012)

I also liked to make several slits in the top of a butt and put pieces of garlic in it. I guess that could introduce bacteria inside as well?


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 14, 2012)

HarleySmoker said:


> I also liked to make several slits in the top of a butt and put pieces of garlic in it. I guess that could introduce bacteria inside as well?


Oh yeah, this is a great way to add Bacteria to the interior of your meat. Your finger is 10,20X's bigger than a needle or therm probe so you push more bacteria in...Most of the time we are smoking to high enough temps to kill anything you introduce, but every once in a while something goes wrong with the smoker or we smoke at too low a temp and that beautiful Pulled Pork makes you sick...Is it worth adding a few Cloves of Garlic or Injecting some Guy's Butt Butter?...I don't think so, I'll stick with a flavorful Rub and a great Sauce...JJ


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## alblancher (Jan 14, 2012)

Harley Smoker,

You cook roasts the way I like them.  Full of garlic and maybe some green onion,  yes indeed, great eating.  I normally put stuffed roasts like that in the oven because I can control the temp better.  If you want to do a pulled pork with garlic you can go ahead and smoke the butt the way we recommend and roast the garlic in the oven till done the way you like it.  When you are pulling the pork you can mash the garlic up and mix in with the pork or mix in with your finishing sauce.  

Most Chuck roasts cook pretty fast so you might get away stuffing a chuck roast if you run your smoker at 300 or so until the chuckie reaches safe temps.  Once you get to 135 internal you can turn the temp down and continue your smoke.


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## elkmaster101 (Jan 23, 2012)

ok then, typicaly when i cold smoke my stuff to 4 hours,

trying not to bring the meat up past 105 or so,

this allows the meat - smoke to get a flavor deep into the meat not just on the outer shell.

after which i probe it and slowly turn up the heat it may take 6 to 8 hours to get the temp up to 160,

on the turkeys and hams, or i let the temp reach which ever mark i'm looking for for at least 10 min. prior to pulling it.

at times i may have as many as 8 dif. recipies-meats processing at one smoke.

 so in the case of deer/pig batches it is usauly 145 deg. but most of the time it seams to be around 150 when it finaly comes out.

it is then emerced in a cooler of ice-water.

and cooled as fast as pos. and poped into the freezer for further chill.

Is this cool?


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## alblancher (Jan 23, 2012)

Elkmaster

Basically food safety rules say that for meat that has been penetrated or mixed you need to get out of the danger zone  41 to 135 in 4 hours.  If  the meat has not been punctured (forks, thermos etc) the 4 hour rule does not apply.  All you have to do is get the surface hot enough to kill any bacteria within 4 hours.  This is why that nice thick rare steak you love is considered safe.  Use tongs to flip the meat and you are just fine.

Normally the only way to safely cold smoke a piece of meat is to cure it first.  Cure 1 or Morton's Tender quick will keep the meat safe while it is in the cold smoker in the danger zone.  Many of us will add cure to sausage, cold smoke it for a couple of hours and then gradually bring it to temperature in the hot smoker.  If I understand your post you are keeping whole cuts in the danger zone longer then recommended and you penetrate the meat by inserting a thermo in it further increasing the risk of food poisoning.

Another potential problem is that I take it from your user name you smoke a lot of wild game.  Whole other problem because cures do not kill parasites.  Only heat and long term storage at temperatures considerably below freezing will do that.

Maybe if you give us a bit more info we can offer some alternatives?

BTW  we slow smoke butts and briskets all the time between 225 and 250 degrees and they come with a great deal of smoke flavor.


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## elkmaster101 (Jan 24, 2012)

so if i get this straight cold smoke for 3 hours or so, crank up the heat and cook it out,

wow, I'm totaly supprised i haven't died.

in alaska i just hung it out in hte sun all day dried it out agthered it up overnight.

to keep the bears off it.

then in the morning do it again,

this went on for a  week.

then when it got a good stink on it. we threw it in the branch racks

over a low fire covered with moss and let it smoke for a day.

dried out in the sun a day after that just to get the fats to christalize and walla dried meat,

my little smoke shake came a long ways from those days.

yep, I cure all my meats with the exception of store bought pork ribs and prime rib.

  so from now on it goes in just like you guy want it.

 this defintly will cut down my smoking time.

 and cut back my beer drinking. (dang)

thanks for the input.

yours truly

Elkmaster101

if you guys get a chance to attend the Iowa deer classic, 2/25,26,27/ 12

check out my booth #33

Black Diamond Hunter Accessories.


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## alblancher (Jan 24, 2012)

Elkmaster

Sounds like you have some pretty interesting experiences.  The "leave in the sun till it stinks" comment kind of throws me off a bit but then I am sure it is an acquired taste.  This is a public forum and we have a responsibility to make sure people without your experience or iron intestines for that matter are at least aware that when they try to duplicate your procedure they might spend a little time wishing they hadn't.  It's easy to do what you want to do safely.

You remind me of some of the stuff I used to eat when I was younger and drank enough alcohol to kill any bacteria and parasites that tried to grow in my belly.   Thanks for the story, brings back good times!


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## big casino (Jan 24, 2012)

elkmaster101 said:


> so if i get this straight cold smoke for 3 hours or so, crank up the heat and cook it out,
> 
> wow, I'm totaly supprised i haven't died.
> 
> ...




I see on TV shows of Alaska they do this with seal meat and fish, but it also seems fairly cold while they do it I was assuming it was like freeze drying or something... out of curiosity what temps were you leaving your meat sit in the sun till it stinks good?


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## elkmaster101 (Jan 25, 2012)

Days were around 60+-

never anywarmer, nights upper 20s low 30s 

really depended on the blow coming in off shore.

some night when the  snow busted on top the temps would drop in the vallies prety low.

just typ Alaska weather. if i aint raining its foggy, aint foggy its snowing

if it aint snowing the suns shining.

now this happens every day some where in Alaska.

cinook, carabou, moose, works on all.

in the back country , it just doesn't matter.

the law--- eat or be eaten is not just a fanticy.


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## tyotrain (Jan 25, 2012)

This link might help as well.... Have fun and Happy smoking

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/ehs/foodsafety/foodworker/foodtemps.aspx


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## diesel (Jan 31, 2012)

Here is a link about cooler time and temps.  http://www.nakedwhiz.com/coolerholding.htm


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## dekegill (Feb 4, 2012)

I think that you guys got the whole 40-140 wrong. What it sounds like, is you think that you temp has to be out of the danger zone while cooking, that is not true. If your food gets above 140 it is fine to eat aslong as it has not been between 40-140 for 4 hours right before you eat it.  for example if you leave a chicken out all day at 50 but then you cook it over 169 it still would be safe to eat.


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## supercenterchef (Feb 4, 2012)

Sweet!  Anybody wanna buy my fridge?


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## DanMcG (Feb 4, 2012)

SupercenterChef said:


> Sweet!  Anybody wanna buy my fridge?


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## desertlites (Feb 4, 2012)

I ain't gonna add anything to the 40-140 but I will say If you hav'nt tried a seared brisket do 1 at least once,not only have they won comps. but there the prefered way amoung a whole lotta people in the smoking world.


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## bmudd14474 (Feb 5, 2012)

Dekegill said:


> I think that you guys got the whole 40-140 wrong. What it sounds like, is you think that you temp has to be out of the danger zone while cooking, that is not true. If your food gets above 140 it is fine to eat aslong as it has not been between 40-140 for 4 hours right before you eat it.  for example if you leave a chicken out all day at 50 but then you cook it over 169 it still would be safe to eat.



It is information like this that will get people very sick. Just because you cook it above 140 doesn't mean its safe if its been out @50 degrees all day(several hours). Bacteria creates toxins that cannot be killed by heat. Please do not come on this forum and say stuff like that because someone who doesn't know better may follow it and you will be responsible for getting them sick because of your misinformation.  

Im sorry to sound blunt but safety is very important around here.


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 5, 2012)

Dekegill said:


> I think that you guys got the whole 40-140 wrong. What it sounds like, is you think that you temp has to be out of the danger zone while cooking, that is not true. If your food gets above 140 it is fine to eat aslong as it has not been between 40-140 for 4 hours right before you eat it.  for example if you leave a chicken out all day at 50 but then you cook it over 169 it still would be safe to eat.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!...If this was true there would be no need to refrigerate anything, no need to add Cure to any sausage, no need to wash your hands or wear gloves, no need for us Chef's to spent any time gettig a  Sanitation and Safety Certification and the Federal Government can balance the budget by shutting down the USDA and the FDA...Just cook it and you'll be fine!?!...You are getting some Very BAD Information!!!...JJ


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## dekegill (Feb 5, 2012)

bmudd14474 said:


> It is information like this that will get people very sick. Just because you cook it above 140 doesn't mean its safe if its been out @50 degrees all day(several hours). Bacteria creates toxins that cannot be killed by heat. Please do not come on this forum and say stuff like that because someone who doesn't know better may follow it and you will be responsible for getting them sick because of your misinformation.
> Im sorry to sound blunt but safety is very important around here.


I agree with you, and I used a bad example.  All I am trying to say is  have been reading here and have seen people concerned about haveing an IT get above 140 in 4 hours while smoking because it is in the "danger zone" and that is not what it is for.  The big concern in food is salmonella, ecoli, listeria and all these are killed with heat.


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## alblancher (Feb 5, 2012)

Don't forget botulism that thrives in the low oxygen environment of a smoker and the toxin is not destroyed by heat. 

Dekegill,  you need to take this discussion to a private message with Chef Jimmy or someone else on the forum that can work out what you are trying to say.  Nothing good is going to come from this line of reasoning in a public place


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## dekegill (Feb 5, 2012)

alblancher said:


> Don't forget botulism that thrives in the low oxygen environment of a smoker and the toxin is not destroyed by heat.
> 
> Dekegill,  you need to take this discussion to a private message with Chef Jimmy or someone else on the forum that can work out what you are trying to say.  Nothing good is going to come from this line of reasoning in a public place


While the botulinum spores can survive in boiling water, the botulinum toxin is heat-labile. Heating food to a typical cooking temperature of 80°C (176°F) for 10 minutes before consumption can greatly reduce the risk of illness.

Dekegill, I had to edit this post because the statement about honey was causing a problem with our Spam Filter...JJ


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## bama bbq (Feb 5, 2012)

This post is very interesting to me.  I have never considered surface vs internal temp. Bottom line: I don't want anyone to get sick eating my food. In fact, I want them to enjoy it and ask for more so I can continue the hobby. If I get people sick they won't come back.

I have always pulled the meat out of the fridge and let rest for ~ 30 min to bring to room temp while bringing the smoker to temp, placing it on the smoker and inserting the probe immediately when I start the cook.  I watch and log the temp rise over time every 30 minutes (or so).  This is an attempt to learn from mistakes and successes.

I went over some of the smoke logs I keep: I have examples of a butt reaching 140* @ 2.5 hrs internal on its way to finish temp, a prime rib roast reaching 140* @ 3.5 hours internal when I removed it (it was a bit more med-well than I was looking for), and a 22 lb turkey reaching 140* @ 5 hours internal on its way to finish temp. 

Of course, I never measured the surface temp so I may have exceeded 140* on the surface after an hour or so. ...but I have no idea and will consider my past technique dumb luck. What makes everyone think 1 hour is enough time?  I'd need one of those laser pointer temp probe devices to test surface temps.


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## alblancher (Feb 5, 2012)

You would think that putting a piece of meat in a 250 degree smoker would give you a surface temp of 250 immediately wouldn't you.  I always start my smoker at 300 and let it settle to the 250 - 225 smoking temp.    Never considered purchasing one of those Star Wars temp things that shoot a beam at the surface of the meat.  Maybe if you had one of those you could insert your thermo in 1/2 hour or less.  I guess I just never considered the one hour without a thermo very important.

Interesting question,  there is a possibility that if you put a load of meat in a 225 electric and the temp drops way down with the smoker not able to recover then you would need more then a hour before inserting the thermometer


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## bama bbq (Feb 5, 2012)

Maverick makes one: $48.41 on Amazon


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 5, 2012)

Every few months someone will come on the site and Challenge the concept of 40*-140*F in 4 hours...Here is our reasoning for it's use... This is a Safety Guideline...It takes into consideration that there may very well be Bacteria On your meat or In your sausage that although THEY are killed at 135*F, have the capability of producing TOXINS that can cause Illness, Paralysis or Death...E-Coli 0157 and Clostridium Botulinum are two examples...These toxins CAN NOT be rendered safe no matter how much Heat or Cooking time is applied...Are these and other Bacteria like Salmonella and Listeria always present?...NO...If we Inject, Probe or Punch Cloves of Garlic into our meat are we always going to Infect the Interior of the meat with Bacteria?...NO...Is every Sausage we make or Turkey we smoke loaded with Bacteria?...Well here the answer is probably YES!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...Can I inject my Butt or Brisket and Smoke it at 200*F for Twenty hours with out causing a problem?...Probably....Can I Defrost my Meat on the Counter all day and Safely cook it?...Maybe....Is it ok to get Totally Hammered, then light my Charcoal with Gasoline?...I'm not going there!...The point being is...Our families are the ones we feed! It is your obligation to learn, understand and practice Food Safety...There is a lot of dumb stuff we do and get away with it...But when it comes to those we love we need to be careful... We come to a forum and seek knowledge from others that have prepared Foods Safely, took the time and expense to educate themselves and are willing to share their knowledge...We should use this knowledge to the best of our ability....Keep raw Meat cold...Cook Meat to a safe temperature ASAP...The Higher the Risk that Bacteria has been introduced the more critical it is that we cook it as quickly as we can...All this has to be undertaken while we use a variety of cooking techniques...Low and Slow Smoking...Cold Smoking...Even Curing and Drying...to get the product we desire...It has been established that

A Guideline like 40-140 in 4...aka the Rule (less letters than Guideline) is, Easy to remember, Provides a margin of Error, Has been gleaned from information provided by Multiple sources, including but not limited to, Professional Food service organizations, The American Culinary Federation, The ServSafe program, the USDA and Food Service Professionals with Years of Experience... Is, " 40 to 140*F in 4 " written down in any Government Food Service Law Manual, or Word for Word on any fore mentioned Website or Charter?...NO...But it Has been adopted by This Site and others to protect it's members!...

Trust in the fact that Members of SMF have your best interest at heart and watch each others back...If they have a Moderators Badge or OTBS Badge, they have spent time learning and practicing our art and are here to pass it on...Ask all the questions you like and try not to be offended when you are challenged for making broad statements that contradict that which years of experience has taught us to be true or at least resonable...JJ


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## pops6927 (Feb 5, 2012)

*Infrared Thermometers*

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4452695  $44.99

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4447708&clickid=prod_cs   $39.99

Two similar products from RadioShack, the difference is the less expensive one has a +/- of 2.5° through the entire temp range, whereas the $44.99 has a +/- of 1% from 20° through 100°, and 2.5% +/- 100° - 428°. Bullet shaped keychain style, runs on 2 LR44 button-cell batteries (put extra batteries on your RadioShack card and get 15% off); LR44's are equiv. to 357 or 76 button cell batteries.

Both look like this:


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## supercenterchef (Feb 5, 2012)

You know those gadgets you buy and never use?  My IR Thermometer is not one of them...I use it way more than I thought I would...great investment!!


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## alblancher (Feb 5, 2012)

I bet the're great for just about everything.   Hot pots on the stove, skillets,  that car seat in the middle of summer before you sit on it with short pants!


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## graystratcat (Feb 5, 2012)

Well said, JJ!


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 6, 2012)

Ok guy's after a long talk with Dekegill...He was in fact was able to supply proof that Botulinum Toxin is destroyed or at least rendered less harmful by heating to 176*F for 10 Minutes...Just shows there is always more to learn, Kudos Sir!...However I did further research and found that Bacteria like E-Coli0157 and Shigella also produce Toxins that are Heat Stable and cannot be destroyed by heat...Further more, while Botulism is rare in this country because of Milk Pasteurization and safe food handling practices...E-Coli and Shigella can be extremely common in Meat and Vegetables because both bacteria thrive in the Intestinal Tract of animals and in Soil so contamination from Feces and cross-contamination from Vegetables and Fresh Herbs to Meat frequently occurs...

Our best defense has been and continues to be...Follow Safe handling practices, like keeping things Cold, Defrosting in the refer, Washing Meat and Vegetables, get Ground, Probed or Injected Meat out of the Danger Zone (40-140*F) in 4 hours or less and if you choose to Cold or Cool Smoke Sausage or Meats ALWAYS apply the proper amount of Nitrite Cure #1...JJ


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