# masterbuilt blames A-MAZE-N for dead unit.



## $mok!ng (Apr 12, 2019)

This is now my second MES30 both of which have died the same tragic death.  They just turn themselves off.  After my first smoker I really babied my second one. Always kept inside when not in use.  I read that a possible culprit was damage to the heating element from removing the chip tray to empty it.  So I removed the chip tray all together and purchased a-maze-n pellet tray.  Now my second unit just died and masterbuilt has blamed the a-maze-n pellet tray, saying that pellets cant be used in their smokers!  I tried to explain that the pellets go in this tray and the tray sits left of the heating element not on the heating element.  The lady I spoke with didn't seem very knowledgeable about the product but she asked others and they agreed you cant put pellets into the smoker.  So I guess I am in the market for another smoker but would prefer to purchase from another company if anyone has suggestions.


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## tallbm (Apr 12, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> This is now my second MES30 both of which have died the same tragic death.  They just turn themselves off.  After my first smoker I really babied my second one. Always kept inside when not in use.  I read that a possible culprit was damage to the heating element from removing the chip trey to empty it.  So I removed the chip trey all together and purchased a-maze-n pellet trey.  Now my second unit just died and masterbuilt has blamed the a-maze-n pellet trey, saying that pellets cant be used in their smokers!  I tried to explain that the pellets go in this trey and the trey sits left of the heating element not on the heating element.  The lady I spoke with didn't seem very knowledgeable about the product but she asked others and they agreed you cant put pellets into the smoker.  So I guess I am in the market for another smoker but would prefer to purchase from another company if anyone has suggestions.



Hi there and welcome!

Since it is already dead then it wouldn't hurt to check a few of the well known failure points on an MES.
There could be any number of things going on but with what you describe I think that you may be grounding out somewhere.
The wire connectors that Masterbuilt uses are crappy and in some cases not even fastened well.  If you wanted to take the pull apart a few things on the smoker I don't think it would be too hard to find the issue.

If the controller or the circuit board is simply failing then you could do a very very simple rewire job to bypass all that stuff and then buy what an Auber PID controller and you would be back in business with a BETTER performing smoker than anything Masterbuilt produces brand new!

Read up here on the simple rewire job and using a PID controller to get an idea of what I am talking about 
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/


I hope this info is helpful


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## $mok!ng (Apr 12, 2019)

I saw the write-up on the rewire, great job.  As I understand it that will make the unit similar to a lil-chief smoker.  No temp control? Just plug the unit in and it heats up?  What will it heat to? and how do you wire the PID? Do I just plug the smoker into the PID and plug the PID into the wall?


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## $mok!ng (Apr 12, 2019)

Additionally to clarify, I am not bashing the a-maze-n product.  I just thought it odd that MES is blaming the use of it, when there is no shortage of complaints for the same issue that I have experience two times now.


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## tallbm (Apr 12, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> I saw the write-up on the rewire, great job.  As I understand it that will make the unit similar to a lil-chief smoker.  No temp control? Just plug the unit in and it heats up?  What will it heat to? and how do you wire the PID? Do I just plug the smoker into the PID and plug the PID into the wall?



No temperature control if you do the rewire, it just plugs in and heats up.  There is still a safety cut-off switched wired into the MES but that is a safety measure not a temp control measure.

With the rewire the unit will heat up until the safety switch cuts off the power or until it catches fire and burns down hahaha.

Once you do the MES rewire the smoker becomes dumb and just heats up when power is fed to it via the plug.
With the Auber PID you plug the MES into the PID and then plug the PID into the wall.  You throw the PID temperature probe into the MES so it can measure how hot the MES is getting.  
At that point the PID controls the power being cut on/off to the MES to hit and maintain the set temp entered into the PID.
So in short MES plugs to PID, PID Plugs to Wall.  Simple!

With an Auber PID (or any good PID) and the rewire job to the MES you can get an MES that easily holds within 5F degrees of your set temp once you tune it in.  That is WAY tighter control and performance than the out of the box MES smoker :)

The only downside, but not really, is that you will only be able to produce smoke with pellets and an A-Mazen-Pellet Smoker tray (AMNPS).  That thing rocks anyhow and almost all MES owners use it so its really a plus!

Let me know if this all makes sense :)


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## daveomak (Apr 12, 2019)

On the  back of the unit, remove the plate that covers the heating element wiring...  check for burnt wires....


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## chopsaw (Apr 12, 2019)

daveomak said:


> On the  back of the unit, remove the plate that covers the heating element wiring...  check for burnt wires....


This is a pic I have stored of what Dave is talking about . Very common failure . 
Burnt wire and bare spade connection . 
B
	

		
			
		

		
	







Fixed ,


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## $mok!ng (Apr 12, 2019)

The wires going into the heating element in the rear of the unit look fine. I may check the ground in the bottom of the unit but am waiting to hear back from mes. I am debating rewiring this with a pid. I would be happier if it was a 40” instead of a 30


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## chopsaw (Apr 12, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> I am debating rewiring this with a pid. I would be happier if it was a 40” instead of a 30


I did it with my 30 and I love it , but yes the real only weakness to it now is the size . Remember ,,, the PID can be used on a future smoker .


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## tallbm (Apr 12, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> The wires going into the heating element in the rear of the unit look fine. I may check the ground in the bottom of the unit but am waiting to hear back from mes. I am debating rewiring this with a pid. I would be happier if it was a 40” instead of a 30



Next wiring spot to check for burnt up failing connectors is the safety rollout limit switch.  Depending on the model of your unit you may have a panel on the back that gives you access to it.  If not you would have to pull the back off the MES to get the safety switch.  It looks like this (though the panel can be on the right hand side sometimes):












rolloutPanel.jpg



__ tallbm
__ Mar 16, 2017












FYI, In the past I have found used MES 40's on craigslist.net for $40 and $50 and rewired them for PIDs and given them away as gifts.  It's a heck of a deal and as long as the heating element works it doesn't matter if someone is trying to sell you a unit with a busted controller or circuit board


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## daveomak (Apr 12, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> The wires going into the heating element in the rear of the unit look fine. I may check the ground in the bottom of the unit but am waiting to hear back from mes. I am debating rewiring this with a pid. I would be happier if it was a 40” instead of a 30



Wiggle the wire to make sure they are NOT corroded...


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## GaryHibbert (Apr 12, 2019)

First off, I'd be calling Masterbuilt again and talk to someone different.  The woman you got stuck with is obviously not real high on the food chain.
If you decide to rewire your MES and install a PID, then absolutely listen to what tallbm has to say.  He explained it all to me and then (since I'm just a tad electrically challenged) he walked me through the process.  With his help I got it done and haven't looked back.  The MES runs better than new--MUCH BETTER.  Thanks to tallbm.
Gary


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## chopsaw (Apr 13, 2019)

$mok!ng
  , don't overlook post 11 . Great point . The first pic in post 7 was after I peeled off the covering .


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## HalfSmoked (Apr 13, 2019)

Sound information here I gave up on Master Built Electric a long time ago and went propane and have not looked back.

Warren


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## $mok!ng (Apr 13, 2019)

Well I figured I would look at my smoker today. Plugged it in turned it on and it stayed on?! I tried multiple plugs yesterday including the plug that worked today.  The weather was high humidity yesterday (tried cooking following a rain). Does humid weather effect electric smokers? I’ve never had an issue cooking in high humidity summer weather. Otherwise I must have a poor connection somewhere.


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## chopsaw (Apr 13, 2019)

daveomak said:


> Wiggle the wire to make sure they are NOT corroded...





$mok!ng said:


> Plugged it in turned it on and it stayed on?!


I went thru this with mine . Wire was burnt in two , but the covering would alow it to make connection and run . Then next time nothing . Re check the connections to make sure they are good .


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## $mok!ng (Apr 14, 2019)

I’ve checked the bottom panel and the heating element panel. All of those wires are tight and look brand new?  I have not checked the rollout limit switch because I will have to remove the whole back panel. I will likely remove that panel and install an access panel for the rollout limit switch.


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## tiros (Apr 17, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> I’ve checked the bottom panel and the heating element panel. All of those wires are tight and look brand new?  I have not checked the rollout limit switch because I will have to remove the whole back panel. I will likely remove that panel and install an access panel for the rollout limit switch.



I used like a 2" hole saw, to expose the device without removing the entire back. Replaced, and then covered with a piece of foil tape.


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## $mok!ng (Apr 19, 2019)

I finally heard back from masterbuilt.  They will not support repairs on my unit because of the use of the pellets.  Just an FYI!


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## dr k (Apr 19, 2019)

tiros said:


> I used like a 2" hole saw, to expose the device without removing the entire back. Replaced, and then covered with a piece of foil tape.


Yup. I cut out a square area on the back with a dremel cut off wheel to access the roll out switch when it fails so I can bypass it with a wire nut while waiting for a new one arrive. Everything looks perfect connection wise so I'll wait till something happens before changing to high heat lugs on that switch. The foil tape works great.  I feel better now that I can quickly access componets in the Gen 1 40 that can fail without finishing in my kitchen oven.


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## tallbm (Apr 19, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> I finally heard back from masterbuilt.  They will not support repairs on my unit because of the use of the pellets.  Just an FYI!



That sucks.  Looks like it is time to take matters into your own hands :)
Borrow or buy Multimeter 

With the Multimeter (MM) you can test if the heating element is busted or not.
Also you can check for continuity along a wire.  You just inplug both ends of the wire, put the MM on the continuity setting and if it beeps then there are no breaks or between both ends of the wire.  
If it does not peep then you either have some breaks somewhere between the ends of the wire OR the two ends you are testing aren't actually part of the same wire.   Continuity checking is super easy and very helpful when figuring out where something is going wrong.

Finally once you find the issue (busted connector, disconnected wire, ground wire issues, frayed wire touching something it shouldn't be touching, etc. etc.) you can then fix it.  
If the wiring all checks out (continuity says so, and grounding is good) the issue is Masterbuilt components.  In that case I suggest you rewire and go with an Auber PID controller and make your MES better performing than what Masterbuilt does :)



dr k said:


> Yup. I cut out a square area on the back with a dremel cut off wheel to access the roll out switch when it fails so I can bypass it with a wire nut while waiting for a new one arrive. Everything looks perfect connection wise so I'll wait till something happens before changing to high heat lugs on that switch. The foil tape works great.  I feel better now that I can quickly access componets in the Gen 1 40 that can fail without finishing in my kitchen oven.


I did the same with my dremel and covered the hole with a piece of like 5mm thick scrap aluminum a buddy of mine had lying around.  I used self tapping sheet metal screwed to fasten the scrap aluminum square over the hole and made my own panel.  I then just foil taped over the edges to seal it from any potential liquid getting in.
I've had to open it at least 2 times as I learned that I was causing my replacement rollout limit switches to burn up since I was handling them too roughly and causing the tabs to loosen and wiggle which = electrical resistance = heat = melding my switches hahaha.


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## dward51 (Apr 19, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> I finally heard back from masterbuilt.  They will not support repairs on my unit because of the use of the pellets.  Just an FYI!



Once that stance on denying warranties where pellets are used gets out to more people, it will hurt their sales.  Nearly everyone I know who has a MES runs a pellet tube or tray instead of the original chip system and knew they were buying the tray/tube when they bought the MES.  

I think they took it you were putting pellets in their chip system.  Just curious but does it say "DO NOT USE PELLETS" in their manual?  If not, they may not have much of a leg to stand on if you push the issue.


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## Jonok (Apr 19, 2019)

Unfortunately, it does:
See pp 3 and 24
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...77679362163/MB20072918-Instruction-Manual.pdf


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## Bearcarver (Apr 19, 2019)

$mok!ng said:


> Additionally to clarify, I am not bashing the a-maze-n product.  I just thought it odd that MES is blaming the use of it, when there is no shortage of complaints for the same issue that I have experience two times now.




This is a bad sign:
Back about 9 years ago, Masterbuilt was a Terrible company for Customer Service.
Then a couple years later they became a Good CS company, and then a Great CS company.
I sure hope they aren't going to get back to the way they were 9 years ago, because they really sucked back then!!!
And it is absurd for them to blame anybody else for their problems, especially "Amazing Smokers".

Bear


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## dr k (Apr 19, 2019)

tallbm said:


> That sucks.  Looks like it is time to take matters into your own hands :)
> Borrow or buy Multimeter
> 
> With the Multimeter (MM) you can test if the heating element is busted or not.
> ...


Yes I remember the flexible tabs compared to the heating element you mentioned so thats why I'm waiting for a failure then replace both lugs and roll out switch outside the access area to not damage the new component if needed. Auber's fix was to get a power cord and put lugs on the hot and neutral and a circle lug on the ground and terminate ground to the chassis with one of the six screws that hold on the element access plate.  I like the safety roll out sensor so the kb301 Amazon or whatever I can find you put up is what I'll replace. If those tabs are a pita then bypassed is how I'll leave it.  Or down the road if the rollout fails buying one from someone that bought a bag of five maybe the solution. The twenty T3111 or whatever $8 bag of Supco high heat element lugs  I have I've been giving/mailing them in a soldered pigtail form to solder/wire nut to whomever wants them. I bought a Mes back up element because that's the only thing I need other than the box and door from MB. I am sooo happy i have all SS inside and out origianal Gen 1 40 with support rails compared to newer hybrids with paint/corrosion on the box where the the door seal hits it. If you flip the element get a longer ground bolt with two nuts so you can terminate the ground wire like you see it when taking it apart and the other nut to secure the element in the access area. I shrink tubed the excess bolt thread to keep the securing nut from backing off as well as insulating it.


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## tallbm (Apr 19, 2019)

dr k said:


> Yes I remember the flexible tabs compared to the heating element you mentioned so thats why I'm waiting for a failure then replace both lugs and roll out switch outside the access area to not damage the new component if needed. Auber's fix was to get a power cord and put lugs on the hot and neutral and a circle lug on the ground and terminate ground to the chassis with one of the six screws that hold on the element access plate.  I like the safety roll out sensor so the kb301 Amazon or whatever I can find you put up is what I'll replace. If those tabs are a pita then bypassed is how I'll leave it.  Or down the road if the rollout fails buying one from someone that bought a bag of five maybe the solution. The twenty T3111 or whatever $8 bag of Supco high heat element lugs  I have I've been giving/mailing them in a soldered pigtail form to solder/wire nut to whomever wants them. I bought a Mes back up element because that's the only thing I need other than the box and door from MB. I am sooo happy i have all SS inside and out origianal Gen 1 40 with support rails compared to newer hybrids with paint/corrosion on the box where the the door seal hits it. If you flip the element get a longer ground bolt with two nuts so you can terminate the ground wire like you see it when taking it apart and the other nut to secure the element in the access area. I shrink tubed the excess bolt thread to keep the securing nut from backing off as well as insulating it.



I'm with you.  If the safety switch aint broke then don't fix it lol.  All your mods sound like the same ones I have implemented as well.  I think if I mod anything next I may remove the light housing, RTV over the holes and in the screw aluminum angle into the sides at the top so I can slide an MES rack up there and hang things from it for smoking things like sausage, hams, bagged turkey/chicken, and maybe get some bacon hooks to be able to do more bacon at once :)


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## chopsaw (Apr 19, 2019)

dward51 said:


> I think they took it you were putting pellets in their chip system.


I'm thinking the same thing .


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## $mok!ng (Apr 19, 2019)

No I sent pictures of what I use and was very clear that the pellets don’t sit on the heating element.


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## dward51 (Apr 20, 2019)

yep, they deliberately used that as an excuse to deny customer service.  That is not good at all.  If it keeps up, they deserve what they will get (customers will move elsewhere - at least the ones who have done any level on internet research once word starts to get out).

Either that or the CS rep and the supervisor you ended up with are both idiots (which is entirely possible).


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## daveomak (Apr 20, 2019)

From the MB manual...

Wood chip loader and wood chip tray MUST be in place when using smoker. This minimizes the chance of wood flare ups.• Wood chips must be used in order to produce smoke and create the smoke flavor.• Before starting smoker, place ½ cup of wood chips in chip loader.* Never use more than ½ cup of wood chips at a time. Never use wood chunks or wood pellets*.• Insert wood chip loader into smoker. Wood chips should be level with top rim of wood chip loader.• Turn handle clockwise in direction of arrow mark on smoker to unload wood chips. Wood chips will drop into wood chip tray. Turn handle counterclockwise to upright position and leave wood chip loader in place.• If wood chips do not smoke on low setting, increase temperature to 275°. After 8 to 10 minutes, or when wood chips begin to smolder, reduce temperature to desired low setting.• You may use dry or pre-soaked wood chips in your smoker. Dry chips will burn faster and produce more intense smoke. Chips pre-soaked in water (for approximately 30 minutes) will burn slower and produce a less intense smoke.• Check wood chip tray periodically to see if wood has burned down. Add more chips as needed.• Do not leave old ashes in the wood chip tray. Once ashes are cold, empty tray. Tray should be cleaned out prior to, and after each use to prevent ash buildup.


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