# Replacing MES Foam Insulation???



## tallbm (Jan 24, 2017)

My MES is still under warranty so I won't be drilling it to pull the back off to answer these questions so I'm turning to you guys.

*Those of you that have pulled apart the MES body, would you believe that the foam insulation could be pulled out and replaced with something like high temp ceramic fiber insulation?*

I might have come across an inexpensive MES body.  If the insulation could be replaced I would probably buy the MES body and replace the insulation with 2300F ceramic fiber insulation and snap disk (with one that has a higher threshold).  

I would then rig up a PID controller and be able to run the system up to like 450F without worrying about burning the insulation up.

Thoughts?


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## cmayna (Jan 24, 2017)

Why go thru all the exercise to replace the insulation?


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## tallbm (Jan 24, 2017)

cmayna said:


> Why go thru all the exercise to replace the insulation?


To get temps 325F and higher.

I personally have no use for a 2nd MES that goes to 275F but an electric smoker that goes to 450F is a smoker and/or a pseudo oven :)


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## gr0uch0 (Jan 24, 2017)

What do you think that prolonged high temp will do to the sheet metal interior?  Tap on your the sides of your kitchen stove, then do the same thing to the inside of the MES, and notice the difference:  kitchen stove is built to withstand higher temps.  Not so sure about the MES....


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## tallbm (Jan 24, 2017)

gr0uch0 said:


> What do you think that prolonged high temp will do to the sheet metal interior?  Tap on your the sides of your kitchen stove, then do the same thing to the inside of the MES, and notice the difference:  kitchen stove is built to withstand higher temps.  Not so sure about the MES....


Good point!  I wonder if the MES sheet metal could withstand a max of 325F.  The Masterbuilt Analog Electric Smoker goes over 400F, I could use that as a reference to get a good idea of what to expect.

I did some Googling and it appears the gauge is 25 gauge stainless steel (not sure if its 316L or what).  

I also did some Googling to see what continuous operating temps 25 gauge stainless steel is rated for.  

I found a references to 304 and/or 316 stainless steel in 20 gauge sheets for a grease duct having a continuous operating temperature of 500F but I would like to get something more definitive on temperature ratings.  I couldn't really find anything but I may not be Googling the correct types of terms.  

Thanks for the input, this kind of stuff helps the thought process and ultimately whether it is possible ore not.


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## tallbm (Jan 24, 2017)

The 21 gauge Masterbuilt Propane smoker body has a temp gauge that goes to 400F.  The Analog electric looks like the same body and also has the same temp gauge max 400F and a 1500W element.

Makes me guesstimate that 25 gauge stainless steel can handle 325-350F with all this stuff I'm seeing, but I would like definitive info.


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## gr0uch0 (Jan 24, 2017)

I'm afraid that at prolonged high temps on these units, the metal will distort, as I don't think they're built to withstand them.  I may be wrong, as I haven't (nor know anyone who has) done anything like this, but I really don't think you'll be happy with the results.  My $0.02

As to the temp gauge going to 400, think of your car's speedometer.  Just because it shows 140 on the dial doesn't mean it can necessarily do 140.  If it can, is it a good idea to run it full throttle for extended lengths of time?  Just things to consider--fill us in on what you decide to do.


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## mosparky (Jan 24, 2017)

Sometimes you get your answers by just doing it.

I say go for it. The metal ain't gonna burn out anytime soon, if ever. The current insulation will come out one way or another. May have to use a wire wheel on a drill but it will come out. Don't forget the door too.

The more you think about it the closer you come to talking yourself out of it. You have 2 major expenses other than the doner body. The PID and the Inswool. The rest is minor and can be redone or modified later for little expense. My only concern is wheither the inswool will perform well at those low temps. Careful with wire routing to keep them protected from the heat. I bet it goes smooth as silk.


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## heavy hauler (Jan 25, 2017)

Not only are oven walls thicker guage they are also usually ceramic coated for heat reflection. Thin guauge steel at high temp should be interesting. I think he is on the right page thinking about upgrading the insulation. My 2 Penny's


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2017)

The SS and other parts will handle about any temp you can throw at it...   The problem arises when the "buried" electronics inside the inner and outer walls get too hot..   electronics let out that valuable smoke that was carefully installed during manufacture...   once that smoke is released, the electronic part has lost it's value....


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## rick-in-ajijic (Jan 25, 2017)

Of the MES I just pulled apart two days ago here are the things I found.

The foam insulation in the back was burned to a dark brown-black. This was easy to remove.

Near the top back the foam was only crunchy brown. Still easy to remove.

The foam between the walls were still intact and yellow as they should be.

I think you would run into a very hard time trying to remove the foam between the walls. When there yellow they stick very well. But can be removed with a screwdriver and a little force.

My main concern for you would be what condition would the smoker be in when your done removing the foam. The MES gets most of its rigidity, strength from the foam. I think you would end up with a MES shell that is flimsy to work with and not be able to stand very well when loaded with meats.


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## tallbm (Jan 25, 2017)

gr0uch0, mosparky, heavy hauler, dave, and rick thanks for the input!

I think a balance of caution, research, and exploration would produce something successful, but to what do degree of success I'm not sure.

The unit is a brand new body kit with a door but no electronics.  The PID would be responsible for turning on the heating element, for measuring temp, and managing the temperature.

As for pulling out the foam I guess that would be a challenge on a new body but with some elbow grease and what Rick mentions I believe it could be done. 

I don't think I would go over 335F and probably never over 350F for more than 45minutes.  The 21 gauge steel of of the other masterbuilt types (propane, and analog) don't seem to have an issue at 325-335F from what I read.  So I would think that stainless 25 gauge would probably hold up well at the same temps.

The major sticking point now is whether or not is cost effective to get the body.  It would need to be shipped and shipping 50-65 pounds is likely a deal breaker.  It would possibly push the whole cost of just the body close to the cost of a new unit :(

I did find an old working Masterbuilt Analog for $45 bucks that I could apply the same Idea too.  Just wrap in 1" ceramic fiber insulation (rated at 2300F), screw some inexpensive sheet metal as a housing to hold the insulation, and run the PID to the smoker.  Hell I believe the Auber smoker PID with the in and out plug outlets would be an instant setup, total plug and play.

If I had two electric smokers I guarantee the extra one would be going to the parents for them to enjoy :)


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## mosparky (Jan 25, 2017)

Buying a new cabinet might get too expensive depending on your pockets ! I'd watch Craigslist or other buy/sell/trade sources for a used, possibly non working unit. The flimseyness without the tight fitting foam might be a real cause for concern. It can be remedied but probably not super cheap or super easy.


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## tallbm (Jan 25, 2017)

mosparky said:


> Buying a new cabinet might get too expensive depending on your pockets ! I'd watch Craigslist or other buy/sell/trade sources for a used, possibly non working unit. The flimseyness without the tight fitting foam might be a real cause for concern. It can be remedied but probably not super cheap or super easy.


You are correct. 

It would have to be the right kind of deal to make it work.  At least I know that if my MES foam ever burns up or anything like that I might have an alternative approach with all of the info you guys have provided and what I have looked up.

I just confirmed that my parents would like to have their hands on an electric smoker.  I will likely get that $45 Masterbuilt analog one and hook up an PID to it.  This will give me a little project to play with to get some hands on practice with PID's and such.  In the end it will result in my parents getting an electric smoker.  I think this is a good middle ground approach to satisfy all of my curiosity :)


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## tallbm (Jan 29, 2017)

Well I yesterday found an MES40 Gen 2 a guy was unloading on Craigslist for $40!  It was in good working condition and very easily usable as is.

Having read all the negatives with the Gen 2 I thought it would be perfect for me to PID mod the smoker and give to my mother as a gift.  She said she was interested in an electric smoker now that I've been using mine.

An Auber WS-1510ELPM plug and play PID controller is on the way.  I've already rewired the heating element (including the snap disk/rollout in the circuit) and I switched all electric terminal connectors to high temp steel ones.  The wire spade connectors connecting to the heating element were already corroding to the point where one snapped off right as I tugged on it.  The element tabs were fine though.  Also I'm going to replace the existing meat probe with the Auber smoker probe so it "feels" legit but is also able to be moved rather then a stationary smoker probe attached to the middle/back of the smoker interior body. 

I feel good with the idea of giving my mother a no hassle electric smoker and I will give her my Maverick et733 as well.

After knocking her PID mod out I am going to go with the HeaterMeter + LinkMeter PID and controlling unit (Auber sells it as well) for my MES40.  That stuff is on order too with her PID.

I figured if I was going to PID my smoker out I may as well go balls to the wall and have a completely WiFi enabled controller I could then control and monitor with an app on my phone.  Or control from my laptop.  

I noticed there were no HeaterMeter controller posts on this forum so I'll attempt to do a writeup on my setup so others can have a step by step walk through on Moding their MES40 Gen1's as with this kind of WiFi enabled configuration as well.

There are just too many pros for *me*  to go the HeaterMeter/LinkMeter route over the traditional Auber plug and play PID route.

Thanks for all of the discussion, info, and great ideas guys.  You and these types of discussions are the reason this forum and community are so awesome! :)


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## daveomak (Jan 29, 2017)

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## marctrees (Feb 10, 2017)

I'm sure the factory foam adds to rididity, but....

The MES Analog has NO insulation and is sturdy stiff just fine.

Just sayin.   Marc


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