# Looking for some Help: Offset Fie Management Problem



## kevin james (Oct 31, 2021)

As the title suggests, I’m looking for some suggestions to solve a fire management problem in my reverse flow offset.

I’ll give the background of what is going on, but long story short, my fire is too tall and I need to figure out how to build a “small, hot fire”.

Background:

I’m running a Kat 24x48 reverse flow and it has been great for everything I have cooked on it over the last year and some change since I got it, except for one thing…. Chicken. I have been having significant problems with the skin turning a very nasty looking grey color instead of that nice golden brown that everyone strives for. I have tried EVERYTHING to fix this issue over the last 6 months, and I FINALLY think I have found the cause. It had nothing to do with too much airflow as the builder and some others suggested. And it also is not a firebox or stack size issue, as both are in line with the recommendations per the Feldon’s calculator for my cook chamber size. Also, the fire has always appeared to run clean as the stack put’s out nothing but clear exhaust, no, white, black, grey or even thin blue smoke, just clean exhaust.

What seems to be causing it is the fire is too tall, and the flames are licking the top of the firebox and I’m guessing that is causing soot to be pulled in to the cook chamber which is then depositing on the chicken skin, causing the greyish skin color. I’m fairly sure this is the issue because I did a couple test cooks that seemed to fix that issue and gave me the nice golden brown skin color, but caused problems keeping a clean burn and keeping the temp up in the chamber.

The first test cook I pulled the firebox grate out which sits about 3 inches above the firebox floor, and I put my V shaped fire management basket directly on the firebox floor. Running it that way the flames did not touch the top of the firebox, and I got the golden-brown skin color.

The second cook, I took everything out of the firebox and built the fire directly on the floor of the firebox. Again, this kept the flames from touching the top of the firebox, and I got the beautiful golden-brown skin color I’m looking for.

The issue with both of these tests is that there was nowhere for the ash to go, so there was a ton of ash build up which I think caused problems with the coal bed and made it really difficult for splits to catch even after being preheated, and it was a struggle to keep temps up as a result.

So, it seems the REAL solution to the problem would be to find a way to build the fire in the fire management basket sitting on the firebox grate, and still keep the fire small enough that it isn’t licking the top of the firebox, and hot enough that it doesn’t have problems running between 275 – 300.

Currently I am running all white oak split’s, the wood is sufficiently seasoned, and splits are between 3-4” diameter and 16 inch in length. I have also sourced wood from couple different venders to rule out the wood source as part of the issue. My next test will be to cut the splits in half length wise using an alligator saw which need to buy, to see if that helps, although that will likely result in needing to add wood twice as often which would be one 8” long 3-4” diameter split every 15-20 minutes.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am determined to solve this problem one way or another!


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## SmokinEdge (Oct 31, 2021)

You really should not be running flames to begin with. Build a bed of hot coals. Then add a split to that (for more coals) the heat should be coming from the red coals, not flame. Keep the flame to a minimum by introducing a single split to the coals at a time. Temp wise you may need to add a second split before the first is reduced to coals, but do that on the opposite side of the fire box. Your not running a wood stove to heat a house. Focus on maintaining a bed of hot coals, not a fire.


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## zippy12 (Oct 31, 2021)

*

 kevin james
 - Did you buy this used?  Did you clean out below the RV plate?  put a light up in there from the fire box side....*


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## kevin james (Oct 31, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> You really should not be running flames to begin with. Build a bed of hot coals. Then add a split to that (for more coals) the heat should be coming from the red coals, not flame. Keep the flame to a minimum by introducing a single split to the coals at a time. Temp wise you may need to add a second split before the first is reduced to coals, but do that on the opposite side of the fire box. Your not running a wood stove to heat a house. Focus on maintaining a bed of hot coals, not a fire.



Interesting. Although I'm not really sure how not to run flames. If the added split doesn't catch, then it would seem to just smolder which would cause dirty smoke. Do you just mean adding smaller splits one at a time to keep the flame as small as possible? That would make more sense to me and is what I'm going to test next, cutting  my splits in half length wise to about 8", hoping that will keep the size of the flame down.


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## kevin james (Oct 31, 2021)

zippy12 said:


> *
> 
> kevin james
> - Did you buy this used?  Did you clean out below the RV plate?  put a light up in there from the fire box side....*


 No, I bought this new and I clean under the plate every few cooks.


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## zippy12 (Oct 31, 2021)

kevin james said:


> Interesting. Although I'm not really sure how not to run flames. If the added split doesn't catch, then it would seem to just smolder which would cause dirty smoke. Do you just mean adding smaller splits one at a time to keep the flame as small as possible? That would make more sense to me and is what I'm going to test next, cutting  my splits in half length wise to about 8", hoping that will keep the size of the flame down.


do you put about 4 splits on top of the fire box for 1/2 hr before burning them?  I have some dry maple but I have to dry it more on top of the fire box or some peices will smoke...


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## smokeymose (Oct 31, 2021)

I don't know your smoker, but when I add a split I leave the door open (mine's a top loader) until the split is actively burning, flaming like crazy,
then close the door and regulate with the intake vent. The flames will stop and the split will then smoulder away.
For what it's worth, I don't even try to get crispy skinned chicken in the offset.
Flames will send your pit temp soaring!


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## kevin james (Oct 31, 2021)

zippy12 said:


> do you put about 4 splits on top of the fire box for 1/2 hr before burning them?  I have some dry maple but I have to dry it more on top of the fire box or some peices will smoke...



Yes, I do preheat splits on top of the firebox, and when I put a split in, I wait for it to catch before I close the door.


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## kevin james (Oct 31, 2021)

smokeymose said:


> I don't know your smoker, but when I add a split I leave the door open (mine's a top loader) until the split is actively burning, flaming like crazy,
> then close the door and regulate with the intake vent. The flames will stop and the split will then smoulder away.
> For what it's worth, I don't even try to get crispy skinned chicken in the offset.
> Flames will send your pit temp soaring!



When you say you the split will "smolder away" when you close the door, that sounds like it would be producing dirty smoke and not a clean burn. I want to keep the size of the flame down, but I don't want dirty smoke due to smoldering .


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## daveomak (Oct 31, 2021)

Feldon's leaves a lot to be desired...  
Check out the tutorial the members on this forum, built smokers and verified the results that an awesome smoker is the result...

(1) Standard Reverse Flow Smoker Calculator... by DaveOmak and others... Ready to use.. rev5.. 6/19/15. | Smoking Meat Forums - The Best Barbecue Discussion Forum On Earth!


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## civilsmoker (Oct 31, 2021)

What you are explaining is a fire air mixture issue.....you are trying to hit higher temps by increasing the flame.....with rather large splits. This larger flame will require much more oxygen than a fire box is designed for.....the result is a oxygen deprived fire and hence dirty un-combusted air mixture.....it takes a lot of air to burn a couple of logs like that.

This is the fire management I would recommend for high temp cooks......start with a full chimney of charcoal and get them very well lit to use as the coal base to promote combustion, next use smaller splits, ie 2-3 inches that are pre-heated (set them on top of the fire box). Add 1-2 splits well spaced such that air can flow around them let them burn but not uncontrollably.....it will take time to get the smoker up to 350-375 but it will get there.  Next get the smoker up to that temp and let it run for 20-30 min to get in the zone then put air dry chicken in, it will come out golden....note you will probably need to add splits much sooner which is ok, just put a single two inch at a time so the air/flame balance doesn’t get messed up. For a hour cook you may have to feed it 5 or 6 times......no biggy.

So my rule is for long low temp cooks, coal bed and 3-4 inch slits, for short hot cooks coal bed (double that of a short cook) and smaller for frequent 2  to 3 inch splits....2 x3“ preferable.






this will hit 375-400 in my smoker.....


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## sacedbysapp (Nov 5, 2021)

Didn’t  u post this on bbq brethren?


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## JWFokker (Nov 10, 2021)

Civilsmoker has the answer. Use coals to generate heat and small splits to put smoke on the meat. There is nothing wrong with using lump charcoal for your coal bed and less wood. It will burn very clean this way.


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## Dantij (Nov 10, 2021)

I have the same exact problem!  I cook on a Lang 48 reverse flow cooker and I have the same issues when I smoke chicken or turkey.  I cook with a clean hot fire with little to no smoke exiting the exhaust.   My splits are medium in size, and I preheat them every time.  They ignite immediately, almost never creating the bad billowing smoke.  I maintain a good sized coal bed and there's always a split burning in the firebox.  
Kevin, I think we cook the same exact way.  I can't just put a split into the firebox and let it smolder.  That's producing too much smoke, and it is the undesirable kind of smoke we all try to avoid.  My splits fully ignite when they hit the coal bed.  Burning split replenishes coal bed.  Repeat, repeat, repeat. My door remains open for @ 5 minutes.   Sometimes I close the door, sometimes I don't.   Am I doing this all wrong?  I maintain temps between 240° and 260° all day long and turn out some pretty amazing ribs and brisket.


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## kevin james (Nov 15, 2021)

civilsmoker said:


> What you are explaining is a fire air mixture issue.....you are trying to hit higher temps by increasing the flame.....with rather large splits. This larger flame will require much more oxygen than a fire box is designed for.....the result is a oxygen deprived fire and hence dirty un-combusted air mixture.....it takes a lot of air to burn a couple of logs like that.
> 
> This is the fire management I would recommend for high temp cooks......start with a full chimney of charcoal and get them very well lit to use as the coal base to promote combustion, next use smaller splits, ie 2-3 inches that are pre-heated (set them on top of the fire box). Add 1-2 splits well spaced such that air can flow around them let them burn but not uncontrollably.....it will take time to get the smoker up to 350-375 but it will get there.  Next get the smoker up to that temp and let it run for 20-30 min to get in the zone then put air dry chicken in, it will come out golden....note you will probably need to add splits much sooner which is ok, just put a single two inch at a time so the air/flame balance doesn’t get messed up. For a hour cook you may have to feed it 5 or 6 times......no biggy.
> 
> ...



Great picture. That is about the hight of my flames, and at that hight they are licking the top of the firebox which I feel is at least part of the problem.


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## kevin james (Nov 15, 2021)

sacedbysapp said:


> Didn’t  u post this on bbq brethren?



Yes, what's your point? I was looking for suggestions from as many people as possible, and there are people over there that are not here and vice versa.


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## kevin james (Nov 15, 2021)

Made some progress this weekend, but still not satisfied. I tried the following:

Scrubbed under the reverse flow plate and the bottom of the chamber with a flat broom and used a blower to blow everything out the firebox end.
Cleaned inside the firebox to remove any buildup, and sprayed cooking oil to re-season.
Added Fire Bricks to the bottom of the firebox for better heat retention.
Cut my splits down length wise in half. They were between 6-8 inches long and between 3-4 inch diameter.
Started with a huge bed of lump charcoal (about 2 1/2 chimneys full) and lit with a torch, then closed the door and let it heat up for about a half an hour before adding any wood (Stack and door damper wide open, temp got to about 175 on the cook chamber).
Added 3 full size splits to get a good size fire going to get the cook chamber temp up and increase the coal bed size, shooting for 350. These were not the splits cut in half length wise, and I did this with the intent of getting the cook chamber temp to target. Stack was wide open, door damper was wide open. This only got the cooker to about 300.
Added some of the smaller splits, 1 every 15 minutes to get the temp up and started gradually closing down the door damper. The temp just never got above 325.
Put the chicken on after about an hour at 325, realizing the temp just wasn't going to get any higher.
I also stopped preheating the splits as I came to the conclusion that they were lighting just fine without it and it was keeping the flames smaller, where as they would rage a little to much if I preheated.
One mistake I think I made was the gradual closing down of the damper door. I think to get the temp up higher I just need to leave the door damper and the stack wide open as even with a huge coal bed this pit just does not like to go above 325, it just doesn't. Next time I may revert back to the standard length splits, adding one every 20 minutes or so asI'm not sure the shorter splits made any difference.

The skin color was better, but I still feel like there was some soot on it, although less than before, and it took 3 hours for a 6 LB chicken to cook. I'm wondering if the long cook time was because I injected with Tony Chechere's which I don't normally inject. I will eliminate that next time, no injection and try AGAIN to get the cooker up to 350. But that is a real challenge on this pit.

Here are a couple pictures. The first is just using the standard camera setting on my Samsung phone, the second is using the "food" setting. In person it looked a little more like the send one to me.


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## Dantij (Nov 15, 2021)

Did you notice a difference with the fire bricks?


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## kevin james (Nov 15, 2021)

Dantij said:


> Did you notice a difference with the fire bricks?



Maybe a little bit, but honestly I would need to play around with it more as it was only one cook and I also tried to get the temp up higher than usual. I usually cook around 275 but was trying (unsuccessfully) to get it up to 350 this time and pretty much topped out around 325.


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## SmokinEdge (Nov 15, 2021)

Do you have any pics of your firebox?


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## kevin james (Nov 15, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> Do you have any pics of your firebox?



Sure, here are some pictures of the firebox, the fire basket in the firebox, and the whole smoker. These were taken the day I took delivery of the pit a year and a half ago, so not recent.




















Also, here is a picture of where the smoke enters the stack. As you see the entrance to the stack has what I can only describe as a cover which decreases the area at the stack entrance. This is how the pit was designed and I am really beginning to believe this is part of, if not the entire problem. Or at least the reason the pit struggles to get above 325. The builder has told me the cooker is "designed to cook with convective heat and not excessive air flow", which I honestly don't understand, but then I am not a pit builder or fabricator in any way so what do I know. He has also told me I am the only customer who has ever reported any problems with the pit.


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## SmokinEdge (Nov 15, 2021)

kevin james said:


> Sure, here are some pictures of the firebox, the fire basket in the firebox, and the whole smoker. These were taken the day I took delivery of the pit a year and a half ago, so not recent.
> 
> View attachment 516413
> 
> ...


Thank you for those pics. That exhaust is a problem. You need a plenum there at the exhaust, not that little dryer vent looking thing. The fire cannot intake any more that the exhaust will allow.  That exhaust has to be opened up. It’s almost exactly backwards of how we would build the exhaust.


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## SmokinEdge (Nov 15, 2021)

Look at how the exhaust should be made.

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...eady-to-use-rev5-6-19-15.172425/#post_1264161


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## civilsmoker (Nov 15, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> Thank you for those pics. That exhaust is a problem. You need a plenum there at the exhaust, not that little dryer vent looking thing. The fire cannot intake any more that the exhaust will allow.  That exhaust has to be opened up. It’s almost exactly backwards of how we would build the exhaust.



What SmokinE said, that is starved for exhaust.  Get out the angle grinder and cut the dryer vent thing off and leave the full pipe open.   Unless you open up the exhaust it will not burn right!!!!!

Next lump burns way hotter and faster than regular coals, If you want consistency go to a Royal Oak non-lump coal.  After that reduce the coal bed because that is starving all the oxygen.  1 to 1.5 chimney max.  It seems counter intuitive but if you have too large a coal bed for the FB you will get incomplete combustion even if it doesn't look like it.  For fire management always leave the exhaust wide open an only modify the intake.


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## Dantij (Nov 15, 2021)

My Lang is the same way.  325° is absolutely the highest temp i can get.  I usually cook between 240° and 260°.


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## kevin james (Nov 15, 2021)

So I talked to the builder. He maintains that 1. he's built and sold nearly 100 of these over the last several years and has never had another complaint, and 2. the cooker is not designed to cook with a full open stack it is designed to cook with convective heat with the stack at least half way closed etc., so the hood should make no difference.

That said, he has one more test he wants me to do, which is the next time I cook, to pull the grate and fire basket out of the firebox and build a fire directly on top of the fire bricks and see what happens.

If that doesn't help we are going to schedule some time to have him come up and visit and he wants to see first hand how I build and maintain my fire and how I run the pit. If that doesn't result in a solution to the problem he will cut the hood off the pipe opening.

I asked a few questions though that do have me wondering if by design this is just not a good chicken cooker and isn't intended to be. First I asked what temp he cooks chicken at on his own pit, and he said he doesn't cook a ton of chicken, but when he does he cooks it at 275. So I asked him if he gets crispy bite through skin at that temp and he said he doesn't really worry about bite through skin  unless it's for a comp, and he uses one of his vault smokers for that. He also told me most of the people he has sold these two cook between 250 to 275... so while he didn't say it specifically, maybe it just isn't intended to get upwards of 325.


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## civilsmoker (Nov 16, 2021)

KJ, since you working with the builder to find a solution and it sounds like he is willing to work with you, hopefully, you will find the answer/solution you are searching for.

The only parting words I will share are that the principles of thermodynamics are very applicable in a smoker and the tutorial that Dave posted is based on those principles and further refined based on real world builds.  Smokers built using these guidelines have no problem cooking from very low temp to high temp. To that end, proof is in the pudding....I have cooked beef wellingtons (many) with golden flaky crisp pastry @ 425 in mine......


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## kevin james (Nov 16, 2021)

civilsmoker said:


> KJ, since you working with the builder to find a solution and it sounds like he is willing to work with you, hopefully, you will find the answer/solution you are searching for.
> 
> The only parting words I will share are that the principles of thermodynamics are very applicable in a smoker and the tutorial that Dave posted is based on those principles and further refined based on real world builds.  Smokers built using these guidelines have no problem cooking from very low temp to high temp. To that end, proof is in the pudding....I have cooked beef wellingtons (many) with golden flaky crisp pastry @ 425 in mine......



Thanks civilsmoker.  In addition to testing by building a fire directly on the fire bricks, the other thing I want to test is what you mentioned about using regular briquets to start my fire, with just one chimney. Now that I think of it I have never tried briquets in this smoker. I used to use them in my WSM, but found they created too much ash and that I liked lump better. When I graduated to this stick burner I never even considered trying briquets for my initial coal base. Seems like I should have at least tried it.


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## JWFokker (Nov 16, 2021)

I wouldn't take off the entire 'vent hood' in one go. Maybe just half of it. The builder intended to have smoke pulled down near grate level by placing the exhaust low. You could retain some of the benefit by leaving part of the 'hood' in place while still improving the exhaust draft.


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## sacedbysapp (Nov 16, 2021)

Kevis  I’m not complaining I’ve had same issues and still looking for answers. I was hoping you share for info on ur post.


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## sacedbysapp (Nov 16, 2021)

Kevin I’ve had a 120 gallon reverse flow smoker with a big stack big opening into the stack and I still got the soot like you did on my chicken macaroni and cheese baked beans if you look at your thread on bbq brethren  I posted some links with pics u can compare. I’ve talked to a few others that  had this problem and they think it’s because just have a big raging hot fire there was a video posted on your thread on bbq brethren of a slow fire you might want to watch that I’m going to try his technique. As far as the flame hitting the top of the firebox I never thought about that that might’ve also been an issue I had because I had a new coal bed grate  installed in my smoker that that set up higher in my firebox and that’s when my problem started.


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## Dantij (Nov 27, 2021)

sacedbysapp said:


> Kevin I’ve had a 120 gallon reverse flow smoker with a big stack big opening into the stack and I still got the soot like you did on my chicken macaroni and cheese baked beans if you look at your thread on bbq brethren  I posted some links with pics u can compare. I’ve talked to a few others that  had this problem and they think it’s because just have a big raging hot fire there was a video posted on your thread on bbq brethren of a slow fire you might want to watch that I’m going to try his technique. As far as the flame hitting the top of the firebox I never thought about that that might’ve also been an issue I had because I had a new coal bed grate  installed in my smoker that that set up higher in my firebox and that’s when my problem started.


Any chance you can post the videos in this thread? I'm dealing with the same issues.


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## Dantij (Nov 27, 2021)

Happy holidays !  Hope everybody's cooks came out as planned.  I smoked 2- 13lb. turkeys Thursday and unfortunately had the same problem with soot on the skin.  Prior to the cook, I cleaned under the baffle plate. There was quite a bit of build up in there.  A years worth.  The firebox was clean but I gave it a scrape anyway.  Not much creosote there.  After the cook, I removed the skin because I didn't like the way it looked.  The meat was moist, tender, and flavorful thanks to the brine.  I'm still confused as ever about the soot issue.  I also found that my bbq beans also accumulate the same soot regardless of where I place the pan.  I cook on a Lang 48.  I read in a different post that spraying the firebox with oil might be the culprit.  Can this be a possibility?   I spray the inside of my firebox after every cook after cleaning out the ashes.  I always cook my chicken on my WSM just to avoid the problem.    I'm at a loss.


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## sacedbysapp (Nov 27, 2021)

There no reason spray inside if firebox.


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## The Art of Pork (Jan 5, 2022)

Looking at your photo of the exhaust it doesn’t look like soot to me, it looks like ash. 

I can’t say why but most likely a combo of stirring up ash when adding splits and the exhaust isn’t moving thru the cc fast enough to pull out any ash in the air with it.

I agree with most that the dryer vent cover needs to go for starters. I pretty well run my intake and exhaust wide open and manage temps by the size of fire.


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## pineywoods (Jan 6, 2022)

Looking at the pictures and reading the posts I have a few questions/comments
1. If possible place the smoker so the wind is not blowing directly into the firebox vents if you can't do this maybe you can place something to block the wind from the firebox vents.
2. Do you have a grate or something to get the fire off the bottom of the smoker a few inches?
Not real high but enough room under it for airflow and for the ash to fall through away from the fire. Does it allow the ash to fall through but not allow large chunks of wood to fall through?
3. What size splits are you using and how many are you putting in at a time? 
My firebox is 24x24 I use splits that are 20-22" long and about as big around as a magnum beer can. I have multiple friends with a Lang 48 you want splits 14-16" long and about the size of a regular beer can around. The other smokers I can't answer but figure an inch or two shorter than the firebox door is wide and somewhere from beer can to magnum beer can around. Don't stuff the firebox full of wood you can maintain a better fire with less highs and lows with the smaller splits and adding them more often.
Start your fire with 4 or 5 maybe 6 splits and leave the door open for a bit till you get it going then close the door and use the inlet vents to control the fire (the more they are open the more air coming in the bigger/hotter the fire) let it burn long enough to get a good bed of coals then add 1 or 2 splits as needed. If your using a reverse flow don't wait till the temp starts to drop instead look at the fire itself by the time the temperature drops the fire will be to small (it takes awhile for the reverse flow plate to allow the temp to drop) The top vent should be wide open or close to it. On the Lang 48 your probably looking at 35-45 maybe 50 minutes between adding splits.
I know the firebox vents on the Lang are below the grate in the firebox what about the other smokers. My Lang 84 has firebox vents on both sides I usually close the one on the side the wind is coming from and control the air intake with the other one.
If you build a big high fire it will impact the air flow the smoker was designed to use and that can lead to ash flying around. If the air intake vents are open with high winds coming in them it can make the ashes fly. 
4. As was said don't spray the inside of the firebox with oil some people spray or wipe the outside of the firebox and allow it to cook in to help prevent rust. Don't leave the firebox door open it can allow wind to come in wrong and spread ash
Try these things it might just help if not tell us and we'll try to figure out other things to try


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## kevin james (Jan 6, 2022)

pineywoods said:


> Looking at the pictures and reading the posts I have a few questions/comments
> 1. If possible place the smoker so the wind is not blowing directly into the firebox vents if you can't do this maybe you can place something to block the wind from the firebox vents.
> 2. Do you have a grate or something to get the fire off the bottom of the smoker a few inches?
> Not real high but enough room under it for airflow and for the ash to fall through away from the fire. Does it allow the ash to fall through but not allow large chunks of wood to fall through?
> ...



1. Wind doesn't appear to be blowing directly in to the fire box. While I can't really turn the smoker, I have tried closing the door dampers all the way down and cracking the entire fire box door open to change the direction from which air enters the fire box. It made no difference. 
2. There is a grate and a fire basket that are up off the floor so air flows underneath. I have also tried removing all that and building my fire directly on the floor whihc dramatically helped this problem, but caused a different problem where It was quite difficult to even get the smoker up to 250.

3. I Splits are generally 3" diameter and 16" length, white oak. I start with one lit chimney of lump charcoal, and add 3 to 4 splits to get up to temp, then I let that reduce to coals to get a decent coal bed, and add 1 split at a time from there.
4. I do not spray the inside of the fire box.


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## The Art of Pork (Jan 6, 2022)

I know it stinks to have to modify something new that you paid good money for but I’m betting your airflow thru the cooking chamber is too slow with the deflector over the exhaust.


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## kevin james (Jan 6, 2022)

Another somewhat related question for you guys. How do you measure the area for the throat? I ask because I am looking at another smoker, a traditional flow offset and want to make sure everything is sufficient, with no restrictions. This is not to replace my current smoker which I still want to figure out, I just really want to also have a traditional flow.... best of both worlds.

This is a 24x48, made of 3/8" steel in the cook chamber and fire box. End caps and stack are 1/4".

The dimensdions are as follows:

Cook Chamber internals are 23.25 x 47.5
Fire box is 23.25 x 23.5 (round)
Stack is 6" internal and 40" tall (builder said it may be 48, he wasn't at his shop and cant remember off hand and said it was either 40" or 48" so I'm being conservative saying its 40")
The throat is football shaped and is 6" tall by 13" wide. I have no idea how to calculate area on this part though or if that is sufficient.
The firebox is designed to crack the door for air flow, so no door damper.

This is from a well respected commercial pit builder who has been building pits for years and is in several restaurants etc., although I don't want to mention names.


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## pineywoods (Jan 6, 2022)

kevin james said:


> 1. Wind doesn't appear to be blowing directly in to the fire box. While I can't really turn the smoker, I have tried closing the door dampers all the way down and cracking the entire fire box door open to change the direction from which air enters the fire box. It made no difference.
> 2. There is a grate and a fire basket that are up off the floor so air flows underneath. I have also tried removing all that and building my fire directly on the floor whihc dramatically helped this problem, but caused a different problem where It was quite difficult to even get the smoker up to 250.
> 
> 3. I Splits are generally 3" diameter and 16" length, white oak. I start with one lit chimney of lump charcoal, and add 3 to 4 splits to get up to temp, then I let that reduce to coals to get a decent coal bed, and add 1 split at a time from there.
> 4. I do not spray the inside of the fire box.



Progress sort of try building the fire on top of the fire box grate but without the fire basket and see what happens. I'm thinking you will get higher temps with getting the air under the fire and letting the ash fall down below the fire so it doesn't choke it down. I also don't think the ash will fly around because the fire will still be lower than what it was using the basket.
Let us know how it works


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## kevin james (Jan 6, 2022)

pineywoods said:


> Progress sort of try building the fire on top of the fire box grate but without the fire basket and see what happens. I'm thinking you will get higher temps with getting the air under the fire and letting the ash fall down below the fire so it doesn't choke it down. I also don't think the ash will fly around because the fire will still be lower than what it was using the basket.
> Let us know how it works



I'll give that a try. I guess I would probably need to use briquets as my starting coals, while I usually use lump. Lump will probably fall through the grate. No big deal though.


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## pineywoods (Jan 6, 2022)

If this works you may need to modify that grate. I personally use a propane weed burner to get my fire started it works great and no charcoal of any kind to have to mess with or wait to get started good.


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## kevin james (Jul 31, 2022)

Old thread but I wanted to post an update. The builder picked the smoker up today, and is going to modify it. Aparently he modified his design based on my issues, and he is going to modify mine to be like the new ones he builds.

Basically what that means is he is going to cut the hood out entirely ( he will need to cut out the upper rack rail on that side to do it, then put it back in), then he is going to make it so the hood is user removable. He said the reason it is there in the first place is to force it to draw from grate level, and that if removed it will draw closer to the upper rack. That doesn't exactly make sense to me since the pipe is right at grate level, but whatever.

I asked him to see if there is any way he can make it not only removable, but fully adjustable so you can dial it in. I still have a feeling I will run with it all the way off, but would be interesting to play around with it if he can make it adjustable.

I also proved to him once and for all it is NOT user error on my part, because I bought a brand new traditional flow offset, and I do not have this problem or any problems with it. And chicken looks great cooked on the new one.

Thread on the new pit:





						New Pit Day! 24 x48 Big Phil's Blue Smoke Smoker
					

Well, today was the day I've been waiting six months for! Today I took delivery of my 24x48 Blue Smoke Smoker from Big Phil's.   I was really worried I was going to have problems getting this thing in to my back yard, and it had to come through my house to get it where it needed to go. But, the...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## Dantij (Aug 16, 2022)

Hello Kevin.  Sorry to hear about your struggles with the reverse flow.  As I mentioned a few months ago,  I have the same issues with chicken, turkey, and even bbq beans. I have not put forth the effort in finding the solution to this issue like you have.  I thank you for that.  I'll probably keep my Lang for a long time as I really enjoy cooking on it and I love the way my bbq turns out ( minus the poultry).  I can cook some great chicken and turkey on my WSM without the water pan.. I have no experience on a traditional offset therefore nothing to compare it to.  I am planning on adding a Lone Star Grillz 42 inch pellet smoker  to the collection. I feel like with the combination of cookers I'll have,  there will be nothing I can't cook regardless of the weather or the other problems that we've experienced. Good luck moving forward.  This was a very useful thread and I hope it helps others down the road.


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 16, 2022)

kevin james said:


> Old thread but I wanted to post an update




Perfect...  Wish others (including myself) would come back after time and do that...   Thanks ...


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