# Help where did i go wrong



## john trotter (Oct 3, 2015)

Hi all put a pork shoulder in this morning,got my uds up to 250 put it in 9.30 am, wrapped 11.30 left in until 3.00pm where it reached 190 in the meat probe  wrapped in foil in a towel the put in a cool bag until 4.30.  meat was cooked but very fatty still and hard to pull it  so my friends, do i get up early? raise the temp? any ideas from the team ?

thanks john


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 3, 2015)

Howdy John, You just cut some corners and rushed it a bit. First, smoke until the IT gets to 160°F (71°C) before foiling. This will take about 6 hours at 250 and gives more time for fat to render. Be aware that Pork that is Foiled will always be fattier than pork that is smoked unwrapped the whole time. If lower fat is desired, don't foil and start earlier, planning for a stall. Next, in most cases, an IT of 190°, even with a 1-2 hours rest will be hard to pull. Most times you need to get to an IT of 200 to 205°F (93 to 96°C) with a rest to pull easily. I like to estimate the time it will take to smoke a Butt to an IT of 205, so I can tell when to get it in the smoker. At an average smoker temp of 250, I can plan on 2 hours per Pound, regardless of Thickness 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  and give it a rest...JJ


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## john trotter (Oct 3, 2015)

Thanks  noted written in my guide book, will try next week  i should really note the size of the thing might help,size does matter more than internal temp ?

john


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 3, 2015)

6 Lb or 12 Lb, an IT of 205°F (96°C) is a pretty good guideline to expect it to pull easily. Difference is just how long it will take to get there...JJ


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## wade (Oct 4, 2015)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Howdy John, You just cut some corners and rushed it a bit. First, smoke until the IT gets to 160°F (71°C) before foiling. This will take about 6 hours at 250 and gives more time for fat to render. Be aware that Pork that is Foiled will always be fattier than pork that is smoked unwrapped the whole time. If lower fat is desired, don't foil and start earlier, planning for a stall. Next, in most cases, an IT of 190°, even with a 1-2 hours rest will be hard to pull. Most times you need to get to an IT of 200 to 205°F (93 to 96°C) with a rest to pull easily. I like to estimate the time it will take to smoke a Butt to an IT of 205, so I can tell when to get it in the smoker. At an average smoker temp of 250, I can plan on 2 hours per Pound, regardless of Thickness
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The difference in residual fat is very obvious. I used to foil my pork shoulder but now I don't. The unfoiled pork looks much better than the foiled as you pull it apart. As JJ says - take it to over 90 C and rest before pulling. When hot roasting meat you can take it to below the desired temperature and the centre temperature will continue to increase during the resting period - but when cooking at these low temperatures this effect is minimal and so you need to get it right up to where you want it to be before resting it.

Don't forget though that a lot of the flavour is actually in the fat and the juices that run off - so the more fat that you lose the more flavour that will go too. You need to capture all these fats and juices in a pan underneath your pork as it cooks. While the meat is resting pour the juices into a jug and allow the fat to separate. Skim the fat off the top and pour the bottom juices back over the pork once it has been pulled. If you want to really intensify the flavour, cook and pull the shoulder the day before and chill overnight before reheating on the day.


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## smokin monkey (Oct 4, 2015)

Hi John, bit late to the party, seems a very quick cook for a Pork Shoulder. I would not foil that early as well.

With Wade on this, I would not foil.


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## smokeymondays (Oct 5, 2015)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Howdy John, You just cut some corners and rushed it a bit. First, smoke until the IT gets to 160°F (71°C) before foiling. This will take about 6 hours at 250 and gives more time for fat to render. Be aware that Pork that is Foiled will always be fattier than pork that is smoked unwrapped the whole time. If lower fat is desired, don't foil and start earlier, planning for a stall. Next, in most cases, an IT of 190°, even with a 1-2 hours rest will be hard to pull. Most times you need to get to an IT of 200 to 205°F (93 to 96°C) with a rest to pull easily. I like to estimate the time it will take to smoke a Butt to an IT of 205, so I can tell when to get it in the smoker. At an average smoker temp of 250, I can plan on 2 hours per Pound, regardless of Thickness
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is some good advice right there


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## mummel (Oct 5, 2015)

Wade said:


> The difference in residual fat is very obvious. I used to foil my pork shoulder but now I don't. The unfoiled pork looks much better than the foiled as you pull it apart. As JJ says - take it to over 90 C and rest before pulling. When hot roasting meat you can take it to below the desired temperature and the centre temperature will continue to increase during the resting period - but when cooking at these low temperatures this effect is minimal and so you need to get it right up to where you want it to be before resting it.
> 
> Don't forget though that a lot of the flavour is actually in the fat and the juices that run off - so the more fat that you lose the more flavour that will go too. You need to capture all these fats and juices in a pan underneath your pork as it cooks. While the meat is resting pour the juices into a jug and allow the fat to separate. Skim the fat off the top and pour the bottom juices back over the pork once it has been pulled. If you want to really intensify the flavour, cook and pull the shoulder the day before and chill overnight before reheating on the day.


Wade do you feel the unfoiled butts are a bit dryer?


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## wade (Oct 5, 2015)

Dry is a relative term - When pulling I would say that they were probably slightly less moist - but not dry. However, especially once you have added the collected juices back, it is very suculent. The shoulder is quite a fatty joint and so as long as it remains warm the fat will keep it tasting "moist".


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## mummel (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeah I think I made that mistake on my last one.  I need to pull the whole thing at once and add back the juices.  On my next one, Im going to foil to experiment.  Do you mix the apple juices into the butt or remove them (when cooking it foiled)?


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 5, 2015)

mummel said:


> Yeah I think I made that mistake on my last one.  I need to pull the whole thing at once and add back the juices.  On my next one, Im going to foil to experiment.  Do you mix the apple juices into the butt or remove them (when cooking it foiled)?


I used to use just Apple Juice then came up with the recipe below. The Butt and Juice, I add the Vinegar, go in a foil covered pan. No fuss and great with Cola too. You can defat or just Pull the Pork and mix all together in the same pan...JJ

*Foiling Juice / Sweet Pulled Pork Finishing Sauce*

*Foiling Juice*

For each Rack of Ribs Combine:

1T Pork Rub, yours

1/2 Stick Butter

1/2C Cane Syrup... Dark Corn Syrup...or Honey

1/4C Apple Cider...or Juice

1T Molasses

Optional: 2T Apple Cider Vinegar. Add 2T Mustard and 1/4C Ketchup to make it more of a KC Glaze.

Simmer until a syrupy consistency.

Allow to cool for 5 minutes, pour over foiled Ribs and

run your 2 hour phase of 3-2-1. For the last phase return

the ribs to the smoker BUT reserve any Juice remaining

in the Foil. Simmer the Juice over med/low heat to reduce to a saucy thickness. Glaze the Ribs for presentation or service.

*For a Sweet Finishing Sauce for Pulled Pork:*  Make a Double batch, skip the Butter.

If you plan to Foil the meat, add 1/2 the batch to the Foil Pack or place it in a Pan with your Butt, when the IT hits 165*F.

Cover the pan with foil and continue to heat to 205*F for pulling.

At 205* rest or hold the Butt in a cooler wrapped in towels until ready to serve.

Pull the Pork and place it back in the pan with the pan Juices and any additional reserved Foiling Juice to moisten, the meat should be shiny and juicy but not swimming in sauce. Serve while hot...OR... Bag and refrigerate until needed.

If you choose to Not Foil or Pan the Butt. Add the Finishing Sauce to the pulled meat before serving. Add the hot Finishing Sauce a little at a time until the Pork is moistened, again the meat should be shiny but not swimming in sauce.

When re-heating place the Pulled Pork in a Pan or Crock pot and add reserved Foiling Juice or Apple Cider, as needed to make up the Juice that was absorbed while the pork was refrigerated. Cover and re-heat in a pre-heated 325-350*F oven or on High in the crock pot to 165*F and Serve.

I was AMAZED...No additional sauce needed. ENJOY...JJ


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## mummel (Oct 5, 2015)

Nice TY.


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## wade (Oct 6, 2015)

mummel said:


> Yeah I think I made that mistake on my last one.  I need to pull the whole thing at once and add back the juices.  On my next one, Im going to foil to experiment.  Do you mix the apple juices into the butt or remove them (when cooking it foiled)?


Don't forget to let it rest it though before you pull. Unless you have asbestos fingers this is usually unavoidable anyway


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## kc5tpy (Oct 6, 2015)

Hi.  Sorry I am late.  JJ and Wade are spot on here.  I usually slice my shoulder but for pulling you need the extra time.  I don't foil either way, you get a better flavour in my opinion.  The "crusty" exterior develops which adds taste and it does get tender when adding drippings/sauce back to pulled pork.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## demosthenes9 (Oct 12, 2015)

JJ, Wade and everyone else are spot on.  One thing that wasn't mentioned though (or I missed) is that you can smoke a butt at higher chamber temps (3275 - 325F) and they do just fine in a much shorter amount of time.


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 12, 2015)

Demosthenes9 said:


> JJ, Wade and everyone else are spot on.  One thing that wasn't mentioned though (or I missed) is that you can smoke a butt at higher chamber temps (3275 - 325F) and they do just fine in a much shorter amount of time.


Your right, we didn't cover cook temps beyond what John used...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...JJ


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## smokin monkey (Oct 12, 2015)

Hi John, were abouts in the UK are you?


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