# New Little Chief



## bryce (Apr 20, 2015)

So I purchased a Little Chief this weekend specifically to smoke salmon with.

I'm wondering, since the smoker will only reach a temp of 165 max, do I have to worry about bacteria or anything like that? In the past I've used a bigger smoker that got much hotter so getting the fish to 140 + wasn't a problem at all.

I do brine (typically wet) so that should help at least put a little bit of a cure on it?













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__ bryce
__ Apr 20, 2015






Thank you!
Bryce


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## daveomak (Apr 20, 2015)

*SAVE THE BOX *....     It can be used to insulate the smoker in the cooler months...   It is ALWAYS a good idea to add cure #1 to fish when smoking.... 
1 tsp. per 5#'s...    Dry the fish to form a pellicle, on a wire rack in front of a fan..  You are good to go....

Mine has been in use, for fish, for at least 30 years....













Totem Smoker.jpeg



__ daveomak
__ Apr 20, 2015


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## bryce (Apr 20, 2015)

Box saved!

This may sound silly, but I like the fact that I didn't have to use a cure to make smoked salmon in an attempt to avoid nitrites and nitrates. Basically I don't store any of it as we will have it eaten within 4 days from the finished smoke.

DaveOmak, do you know if salt can act in the same manner as a cure?

Your smoker looks great buddy! can't wait to use mine, haven't even unpacked it yet.

Bryce


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## mr t 59874 (Apr 20, 2015)

To chime in with Dave.  Ensure it has been properly cured.  Consider purchasing a salimeter, around $15.00, and brine at 80% salinity @ 60°.  Many recipes do not meet this minimum requirement.

The following is the one I use.   Mr T's "Smoked Salmon From Go to Show" w/Q-View

Tom


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## daveomak (Apr 20, 2015)

There is no reason to avoid nitrite when smoking meats...  there are reasons to use it...


http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Prevent-Botulism

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs270/en/


safety of sodium nitrite...

http://medinforms.com/2-1-fitnessandnutrition/study50.php


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## wade (Apr 20, 2015)

Unfortunately there appears to be a surfeit of advice on wet brining on here however I find dry brining works better for me and produces a better texture smoked fish. A mix of 1:1 salt to sugar (and maybe some fennel or dill) and leave to cure for 2-3 hours. I then usually cold smoke mine overnight but they are great hot smoked too. You don't need any Nitrite for the time periods you are talking about. Without freezing they are good for up to 10 days providing they are kept chilled.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/140785/smoked-fish-fillets-salmon-cod-and-haddock-q-view

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/171886/comparison-of-salmon-curing-methods


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## cmayna (Apr 20, 2015)

Bryce,

I also am a dry brine smoker when it comes to fish, mainly King Salmon.  4/1 ratio of  brown sugar over non iodized salt, etc.   Yes your little chief has a pretty small (250watt) element which will force you to smoke longer in order to get the IT temp up to 135-140*.  What I did to my two big chief's which you might consider later on is to install an adjustable 1000+ watt element in your little chief. It really helps on cool days etc.  I typically start out at around 125-130 for an hour, bump to 145-150 for another hour, then bump to 165+ for a 3rd hour+ until the IT is met.


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## bryce (Apr 20, 2015)

Mr T 59874 said:


> To chime in with Dave.  Ensure it has been properly cured.  Consider purchasing a salimeter, around $15.00, and brine at 80% salinity @ 60°.  Many recipes do not meet this minimum requirement.
> 
> The following is the one I use.   Mr T's "Smoked Salmon From Go to Show" w/Q-View
> 
> Tom


Tom, thank you for your feedback. Never heard of a salimeter but i'll look that up today. Thanks for the tip.


DaveOmak said:


> There is no reason to avoid nitrite when smoking meats... there are reasons to use it...
> 
> 
> http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html
> ...


Dave, thank you for taking the time to post more information. I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about nitrites and will look through these. I've noticed "Nitrite and Nitrate" free foods are becoming more of a "thing" out there.


Wade said:


> Unfortunately there appears to be a surfeit of advice on wet brining on here however I find dry brining works better for me and produces a better texture smoked fish. A mix of 1:1 salt to sugar (and maybe some fennel or dill) and leave to cure for 2-3 hours. I then usually cold smoke mine overnight but they are great hot smoked too. You don't need any Nitrite for the time periods you are talking about. Without freezing they are good for up to 10 days providing they are kept chilled.
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/140785/smoked-fish-fillets-salmon-cod-and-haddock-q-view
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/171886/comparison-of-salmon-curing-methods


Thanks Wade! I've always  wet brined but dry brining just seems and sounds easier overall. My concern with time is it looks like salmon smoked in the Little Chief could take in upwards of 8 hrs for 5 lbs....

I appreciate your feedback!


cmayna said:


> Bryce,
> 
> I also am a dry brine smoker when it comes to fish, mainly King Salmon.  4/1 ratio of  brown sugar over non iodized salt, etc.   Yes your little chief has a pretty small (250watt) element which will force you to smoke longer in order to get the IT temp up to 135-140*.  What I did to my two big chief's which you might consider later on is to install an adjustable 1000+ watt element in your little chief. It really helps on cool days etc.  I typically start out at around 125-130 for an hour, bump to 145-150 for another hour, then bump to 165+ for a 3rd hour+ until the IT is met.


Thanks Cmayna. Excellent information - you've read my mind. I'll be installing a larger element soon but was hoping to get a smoke or two in before I did that. I have the box and might slip that over the top to increase the temp a bit. I know back in the day we used to just wet brine and then toss them into the Little Chief without any regard to safety! yikes!!

Thanks,
Bryce


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## mr t 59874 (Apr 20, 2015)

Wade said:


> Unfortunately there appears to be a surfeit of advice on wet brining on here


Wet brine, dry brine or no brine.  Try them all and choose what works best for you. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






    I wet brine for the same reasons Wade dry brines not to mention it is more convenient for my purposes. LOL  

Tom


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 20, 2015)

I'll chime in even if I am late. I bought my first Little Chief Smoker 30 years age when I was working as a deckhand on my uncles charter boat. Ran hundreds of salmon through that thing until the burner ran out, then that was replaced like Craig mentioned above with a 1000 watt adjustable hot plate. I do the same 4:1 sugar to salt dry cure. Back in the day I would load the smoker in the morning turn it on and go fishing all day. Get home remove the fish, I'm all for safety but I don't use cure in my fish brine. Now I also use a stepped heat process starting at 120° for a couple hours then up to 140°, then up to 150°-180° or until I get to an IT of 145°. I use this method for all the fish I smoke.

One more thing that box is good for is turning your Chief into a cold smoker. Nothing better than a slab of smoked fish and a hunk of smoked Tillamook Cheddar!


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## bryce (Apr 20, 2015)

Awesome thanks Dirtsailor.... Definitely not to late. I'll roll with the stock element for now and then upgrade to the adjustable hot plate. 

Love the cold smoke box idea. Hell yeah smoked salmon and smoked cheese! Frickin great idea.

Bryce


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## cmayna (Apr 21, 2015)

Yeah what Case (dirtsailor2003) said, but Case, what flavor of Tillamook?    I like Smoked Mozzarella but looks like Tillamook doesn't make it, at least in loaf size.  Humph!


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## bryce (Apr 22, 2015)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Ran hundreds of salmon through that thing until the burner ran out, then that was replaced like Craig mentioned above with a 1000 watt adjustable hot plate.


DS2003 - did you just rip out the stock element and element holders and then just place the hot place inside where the stock element was? Or, did you do a more custom job?

Thanks,
Bryce


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## daveomak (Apr 22, 2015)

Here's how I did mine.....  


http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/...r-element-for-colder-climates-and-hot-smoking


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## bryce (Apr 22, 2015)

Looks like a pretty solid mod David. And to think I was hoping I could just throw a hot plate in there without cutting or drilling.. Lol

I bet you can make excellent smoked food on there with such precise controls.

For my first smoke in my little chief I'm going to go with the stock element and put the box over the top and see if I can get it up past 165f. If not I'll get more techy with the burner mods.

Thanks
Bryce


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## WaterinHoleBrew (Apr 22, 2015)

Bryce said:


> So I purchased a Little Chief this weekend specifically to smoke salmon with.
> 
> I'm wondering, since the smoker will only reach a temp of 165 max, do I have to worry about bacteria or anything like that? In the past I've used a bigger smoker that got much hotter so getting the fish to 140 + wasn't a problem at all.
> 
> ...



You've got some great responses !  Congrats on the new smoker, them are real nice units...  Thumbs Up   Enjoy !


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## daveomak (Apr 22, 2015)

Bryce said:


> Looks like a pretty solid mod David. And to think I was hoping I could just throw a hot plate in there without cutting or drilling.. Lol
> 
> I bet you can make excellent smoked food on there with such precise controls.
> 
> ...




You have to take apart the table top hot plate...  they have an over temp control that keeps from melting the bak-a-lite plastic housing and from melting the table you set them on....    It's a snap switch type control...   you just bypass it so you can get the element hot enough to get the wood smoking....   the thermostat in the knob, then controls the temp just fine....   I put the "element on" light in the front to know when to turn the thermostat up or down....    A therm installed in the door, shows what temp is in the smoker.....


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## bryce (Apr 23, 2015)

Many thanks Dave. Adding a therm to the door is a great idea. I'm certain I'll do that. Otherwise I have to string the maverick around and through and..... Kind of a pain.


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## cmayna (Apr 23, 2015)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/141492/modified-big-chief

Above is a link to my post of modifying a chief.   Bryce, it's pretty straight forward once you rip into the project.  Just go to your local walmart,  BestBuy, Kmart and pick up a Proctor Silex 5th burner like this one, or something similar which has a 1000 + watt adjustable burner with a lamp.

http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-c0bc/k2-_d65b8e1e-6e15-4500-83df-fa49559376c1.v1.jpg

or just send your chief to me and I'll be happy to fix it right up.

For the chamber temp probe, I just drilled a hole on the side and installed a rubber grommet


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 23, 2015)

Hey Bryce I sent you a PM but wanted to post the same info here for all to see. The Chief Smokers used to come with directions on how to cold smoke using the box. With the top loaders this is easy. With the front loaders if there aren't any vent holes (older versions had vents formed in the top) in the top you need to drill (4-6) 1/2" holes into the top. You could go 3/4". Use corks to plug them when hot smoking. Here's a few photos that show how this goes.













swamprblittlechief2.jpg



__ dirtsailor2003
__ Apr 23, 2015





   













images2.jpg



__ dirtsailor2003
__ Apr 23, 2015


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## cmayna (Apr 23, 2015)

Case,  That's a perfect setup for a AMNPS sitting on top of the unplugged burner.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 23, 2015)

cmayna said:


> Case,  That's a perfect setup for a AMNPS sitting on top of the unplugged burner.


Sure is! The original method is to turn the burner on get the smoke flowing. Turn it off place the rack on top, cover with box. turn on smoker again if smoke quits. I watched my grandma cold smoke all kinds of things using that method. Wish I knew if her chief smoker is still around. Probably in her basement somewhere.


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## cmayna (Apr 23, 2015)

Bryce,

You takkin' all of this in like a sponge?    We're going to quiz you later on.


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## bryce (Apr 23, 2015)

Yeah, for sure, this is excellent guys.... Definitely have my learn on. Thank you so much for taking the time to post all of this for me.

These little smokers sure are resourceful. Glad I picked it up. 

Once I do the burner upgrade and then the cold smoke mod, there's no way I'll screw up smoking food in this puppy.

Definitely going to run salmon, cheese, and try jerky in the LC. The WSM will cover off everything else.

Have a great day.

Bryce


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## mr t 59874 (Apr 23, 2015)

Case, if that doesn't bring back memories.   I protected the box for years with my life.  It finally just disintegrated.  I still use the same principal though by collecting second-hand smoke.

Tom


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## timberjet (Apr 23, 2015)

cheif 1.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jan 20, 2015






I built this for mine when the box finally died. Works like a charm. I even cover the whole thing with an old electric blanket when it's really cold out.


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## bryce (Apr 23, 2015)

Great idea


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## bryce (Apr 24, 2015)

Decided to play around with the Little Chief tonight since i'll be smoking salmon in it tomorrow.

I fired it up, put some chips in it and got the temp up to 155 (50 degrees out with slight wind) so I was pretty happy about that.

Then I decided to place the box over the top and wow, what a difference. The smoker temp shot up to 225! and from the looks of it, it's still climbing.

Knowing this, my plan is to smoke the salmon without the box cover for all of the smoke unless I'm not feeling good about the time it's taking and if, that's the case, i'll simply throw the box over it.

I'm using my Maverick to check the smoker temp.

I think I'll pull the box off, crack the front loading door down 7 inches and try and smoke some cheese tonight and  have that and smoked salmon tomorrow! Thanks to whoevers idea that was - I can't remember.

Bryce

*** Wow up to 245 now!


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## bryce (Apr 24, 2015)

Cheese time and my first try at this. Motz and cheddah!













cheese.jpg



__ bryce
__ Apr 24, 2015


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## cmayna (Apr 24, 2015)

245?   Way too hot for fish.  The hottest I ever go for Salmon is 170*.   How are you doing the cheese?   With the burner on?


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 24, 2015)

Slow down! 245? Then the pictures with your cheese right in the smoker? Didn't we already talk about this???


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## bryce (Apr 24, 2015)

cmayna said:


> 245?   Way too hot for fish.  The hottest I ever go for Salmon is 170*.   How are you doing the cheese?   With the burner on?


I won't go 245 on the fish. I was just curious how hot the smoker would get with the box over it. I'll smoke the salmon all the way through without ever using the box. 

I didn't do any mods yet to cold smoke cheese so yes, I'm smoking the cheese with the burner on and the door cracked open quite a bit. not idea but i'll see if it works.

I'm going to either do the soldering iron and #10 can cold smoker idea or simply find a good rack to place on top of the LC and then a box over that.


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## bryce (Apr 24, 2015)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Slow down! 245? Then the pictures with your cheese right in the smoker? Didn't we already talk about this???


no, I totally let the smoker cool down. no worries there. I don't want a melted cheese mess to clean up. My posts look like I tossed them in at 254. sorry for the confusion.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 24, 2015)

Confususious CHEESUS! make sure and let that cheese rest a few weeks before you try it or you will not be happy with the taste!


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## bryce (Apr 24, 2015)

Lol, sorry for the stress! All is well. Actually, even with the door more than cracked open I'm still running too hot. I'll probably head to Home Depot tomorrow and pick up a soldering iron since I now know the cracked door cold smoking method doesn't work that well on these.

Man I was shocked this smoker got up to 245 so quickly and easily with the box over it. Really surprised me.


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## bryce (Apr 24, 2015)

Cheese is finished. About a 3 hour smoke but not a strong smoke since the a lot of the smoke escaped the cracked door. In any event, I do think i'll end up with a nice smoke flavor. Equal split of hickory and apple.

Tomorrow AM i'll throw the salmon into the Little Chief. Just about to put it in the brine for an overnight bath!

Bryce













cheese 1.jpg



__ bryce
__ Apr 24, 2015


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## WaterinHoleBrew (Apr 24, 2015)

Nice lookin cheese smoke !


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## bryce (Apr 25, 2015)

Thanks WHB. My first but wont be my last that's for sure. Especially once I have the cold smoking mods in place for the Little Chief.

Bryce


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## daveomak (Apr 25, 2015)

Bryce, morning....   If you are in the mood, order some Q-Matz from Todd....  They work great on cheese...   support it when using those racks...    Keeps the cheese in good shape.....


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## cmayna (Apr 25, 2015)

While you're shopping for the Q-Matz from Todd, get one of his  AMNPS or AMNTS smoke generator for cold smoking as well as hot smoking.


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## bryce (Apr 25, 2015)

Good tips guys, thank you!

Bryce


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## timberjet (Apr 25, 2015)

cold smoker.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jan 17, 2015


















easter deviled eggs 14.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Apr 20, 2014






the top picture is how I cold smoke with wood chips now. the bottom is how I used to do it. Note the ice. It worked pretty well until I figured out the soldering iron deal.


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## bryce (Apr 25, 2015)

That's cool and pretty innovative. Love the ice idea. I could have used that last night!

Bryce


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## cmayna (Apr 27, 2015)

Careful,

If I'm correct  ice is not suggested when cold smoking cheese due to the amount of moisture created in the air which will stick to the cheese.  But you can consider using a frozen plastic bottle of water.


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## timberjet (Apr 27, 2015)

cmayna said:


> Careful,
> 
> If I'm correct  ice is not suggested when cold smoking cheese due to the amount of moisture created in the air which will stick to the cheese.  But you can consider using a frozen plastic bottle of water.


This would be true with cheese I think. A gallon milk jug frozen would last quite a while. I do these eggs for like 40 minutes after they are deviled for a little more flavor.


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## thackman (Jun 10, 2015)

Also FYI most "nitrate free" cured meats just substitute celery powder for sodium nitrate as celery has naturally occurring nitrates.

Don't believe me check this out....  http://ruhlman.com/2011/05/the-no-nitrites-added-hoax/


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## daveomak (Jun 10, 2015)

ThackMan said:


> Also FYI most "nitrate free" cured meats just substitute celery powder for sodium nitrate as celery has naturally occurring nitrates.
> 
> Don't believe me check this out....  http://ruhlman.com/2011/05/the-no-nitrites-added-hoax/



++++++++++++++++++++++

Unfortunately, nitrate needs bacteria to convert to nitrite....   bacteria will not flourish below 40 degrees F and therefor will not convert the nitrate to nitrite, which is necessary to prevent botulism....   nitrate should be used when meat products are "aged" at temps around 50 degrees F....  The conversion to nitrite takes time... lots of time... months...  that's why is it used in slow curing/drying of meats...   



http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts

Sodium Nitrate and its chemical equivalent potassium nitrate are interchangeable. For the most part potassium nitrate has been replaced with sodium nitrate – which is considered more stable and reliable; both are extremely poisonous. These ingredients are still widely used for home curing outside the United States, but it is recommended that these cures should only be used in it pure form by meat processing plants. In such plants this is done by trained personnel under strict supervision. Therefore it is highly recommended when using nitrates to obtain it in premixed cures that can be safely and accurately measured; such as in cure #2, and the Morton cures which are discussed in more detail latter on. 

 Nitrates are considered a slow cure, and are referred to as a “time release capsule.” It does not cure meat directly and initially not much happens when it is added to meat. With nitrates the curing is dependent on the amount of bacteria present, and the environment (temperature) the bacteria need to grow. For nitrates to work as a cure it requires the presents of certain microorganisms. These microorganisms are present in all meats, and start to react with the nitrates to reduce them to nitrites. It is the nitrites that will start the curing process.

 This is a slow process that steadily releases nitrites over a long period of time. This makes it well suited for curing products that require long curing times. Dry cure products can take as long as several weeks to several months to fully cure. Nitrates are used for making dry cure sausages; such as pepperoni, hard salami, geonoa salami, dried farmers sausage, capicola, etc, and dry cure meats that are not cooked or need to be cooked.


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## thackman (Jun 10, 2015)

Sorry i unintentionally misspelled or misspoke.  I actually meant nitrites.  Thanks for the correction... The article i posted says it correctly.


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## SherryT (Oct 11, 2022)

I KNOW this is an old post, but I had to laugh when I saw it...

I keep reading where people say you can "use the box" to cold smoke on the L/B Chiefs...I had a COMPLETELY different image in my mind as to how this would work!

THIS makes sense...what I imagined did NOT!

As you were! :)


dirtsailor2003 said:


> Hey Bryce I sent you a PM but wanted to post the same info here for all to see. The Chief Smokers used to come with directions on how to cold smoke using the box. With the top loaders this is easy. With the front loaders if there aren't any vent holes (older versions had vents formed in the top) in the top you need to drill (4-6) 1/2" holes into the top. You could go 3/4". Use corks to plug them when hot smoking. Here's a few photos that show how this goes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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