# Canned Stroganoff



## archeryrob (May 19, 2021)

So I wanted "easy" meals and we started canning venison to have more on shelf and after canning rooster, damn, canned meat is good. I copied the Ball recipe, but I am adding 4 Tbsps of Worchestershire now and maybe adjust some other stuff more. I canned Venison Veggie soup too, but that is another story.

{STARTS HERE] So another one of the how to use the pressure caner to make ready made meals and save freezer space. although we are getting more freezer space after the first year freezing zucchini and finding out they are just mushy frozen and pressure caned. I saved a link to someone making Zucchini Apples and you can see that on wordpress also. We’ll probably try that as water bathing will leave them crisper, but I digress down a different rabbit hole.

So, I bought The All New Ball Book of Canning and Preserving off of Amazon because Walmart did not carry this one. They carried the Guide to Preserving only and that one did not have the Beef Stroganoff recipe in it. So I bought this book just for that and figured I’ll find other ideas also. I trip over things on the internet and the wheels turn in my head. How can I change, adapt and use this for some other use. This will help me with the many of the ideas i’ll have in the future.







Above is the directions for the recipe mostly from the Ball book. I omitted the tomato paste which would have been 2 Tablespoon. My wife’s recipe does not have that and when she makes the comment “Who adds tomatoes to Stroganoff!” I knew crossing that line was going to cost me pain in the future. So I just drew a line through tomato paste.






	

		
			
		

		
	
I bought way too many mushrooms. 1# might have done all seven jars. Maybe 1.5# at most.
It was pretty easy, dump the meat in, all the spices and worcestershire sauce. Dump in the onion and mushrooms. Then fill to hit the head space with beef broth. Poke around for bubbles and top with broth if needed.






So above the 7 quarts are ready for the caner, notice how the mushrooms float more. That is an issue and I am hoping it doesn’t cause me any problems. Mushrooms have a lot of air. The air cooked out and the mushrooms absorbed broth and lowered, or increased, my head space. I am asking people to their thoughts on this. I think it should be fine. People can roasts and they have a lot of air space above them and raw packed meats.


So I set everything in the All American 915 caner and got it running. Below is the caner running on the kitchen stove. My wife saw the picture of the exploding pressure caner also. Which is why it was so easy to buy this one that could be a small tank in another life. I had to keep reassuring her how the silicone relief valve would blow out if any serious pressure problems occurred. Below is a picture of it working. I found 4 1/2 on the electric stove was the sweet spot for keeping it going without over boiling or loosing pressure. Maybe could have gone to 4 but I wasn’t pushing it.






Below I have the finished stroganoff jars.  An experienced caner would notice the head space is not at the bottom jar rim. I went from 1″ head space to 1.5 to 1.75″ head space due to the mushrooms loosing air. As I said I do not think it will be a problem, but I am asking around and I will report back if it is.






So to make this you pop the top loose, drain the liquid into a pan. Mix two tablespoons of flour in. Add a heaping tablespoon or 1/2 cup of sour cream to taste and heat it up. The serve on rice, noddles or mash potatoes. this used more meat and made less jars than the soup. But one quart of soup will feed two people and this over noodles or potatoes will feed four to six, depending on who is eating.


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## Brokenhandle (May 19, 2021)

Looks and sounds really good!  We might have to give this a try!  Bet you love that canner! We bought the 921 and for the same reason as you... my wife felt the same as yours.

Ryan


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## thirdeye (May 19, 2021)

There is some science in the art of canning, and some of it is old science.    Canning recipes depend on pH levels and 4.6 is the dividing line between acid and low acid (>4.6) foods.  Meat and veggies are low acid foods and must be pressure canned.  Tomatoes hover right around 4.6 so it does not look like the addition of tomatoes to the stroganoff recipe makes any difference in the pH, so leaving them out should be fine.  But for example when canning tomatoes, tomato juice, or sauces citric acid is added to acidify the tomatoes, and allow those products to be canned in a water bath. 

I mostly can meats, fish and pizza sauce and use both the raw pack and hot pack methods. It's interesting that the stroganoff recipe allows for broth to be added to raw packed meat.... I'm assuming it's because of the mushrooms and onions because raw packing of meats calls for NO additional liquids. 

Anyways, a raw pack will always result in lower head space than a hot pack because the meat shrinks during processing.  So you are good there.  The only thing you might notice is a dry appearance at the very top of the jar. Raw packing fatty meat will leave a layer of fat at the top of the jar.


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## chef jimmyj (May 19, 2021)

I never canned anything so cant comment on the head space. But, I can verify that Sautéing the Mushrooms and Onions until golden brown, I then add a teaspoon each, Fresh Minced Garlic, Fresh Thyme Leaves and Fresh chopped Dill, sautee until fragrant, will eliminate air and  bring out A LOT of flavor, as opposed to throwing everything in the jar raw.
Is there a Safety reason you can't Brown the Meat before Canning? Stewing Browned meat is more flavorful than raw...JJ


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## disco (May 19, 2021)

What a project! Big like!


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## thirdeye (May 19, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> I never canned anything so cant comment on the head space. But, I can verify that Sautéing the Mushrooms and Onions until golden brown, I then add a teaspoon each, Fresh Minced Garlic, Fresh Thyme Leaves and Fresh chopped Dill, sautee until fragrant, will eliminate air and  bring out A LOT of flavor, as opposed to throwing everything in the jar raw.
> Is there a Safety reason you can't Brown the Meat before Canning? Stewing Browned meat is more flavorful than raw...JJ



It's called 'hot pack' when the meat is partially cooked (or smoked), then packed into jars along with hot broth.... and then processed.  Raw pack (of meats) is when raw meats goes into jars and NO liquid is added.

The problem is that the canning guidelines were established during a 20 year period from the '30's to the '50's using quart and pint jars.  It's mostly based on pH,  density of the meat nd processing times and pressures to make sure the meat gets to the contents of the jars reaches the correct temperature. There were some updates in the '80's but no major changes. A lot has changed since then, but the purists generally stick to the 'approved and tested' guidelines for food safety.   One area I have altered is adding a couple of tablespoons of water or broth to raw packed chicken.  Most chicken is enhanced anyway (which was not the case in 1950) so technically if you brine a chicken and raw pack it, you are not following guidelines.  Now, the Canning Police don't show up on your doorstep, but on some canning sites you will get called out if you bend the rules or recommend changes.   On the other side of the coin are the Canning Cowboys, who get somewhat lackadaisical when canning food, and may use old methods that are no longer recommended.... like oven canning.


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## archeryrob (May 19, 2021)

Lordy Jesus, this was just a "hey try this if you like" thread. Not a physiological discussion on the physics of canning. Some ya'll need a beer and an easy chair.  Like the recipe, don't like it, give me some ideas to change it. It is the first time I made it, so it can probably be better. Ball's recipe needs to double the worchestershire hands down. I think its is cooked way past bacteria living.

Hot pack or raw pack. I think, once I drop it in a jar, heat it up for 20 minutes, then pressure cook it for 90 minutes at 240 degrees it is damn, well done! I think deer can be a tender but slightly, lightly, tough. I can tell its deer by the texture as beef is more tender, but still very nice to eat. Culled roosters in a jar  Now that is awesome. Oh, and I trim every bit of fat off deer. There's no fat in the jars as deer fat is the most awful, roof of the mouth, greasy crap. Deer fat is only for bullet lube in my house. Not eating deer fat unless we are starving!!!


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## archeryrob (May 19, 2021)

I guess I could cook the mushrooms and onions to caramelize them, but you having not canned don't know the process. The normal setup, cut chop and portion 7 quarts with 1# meat and various veggies, mushrooms, onions and so on. This take a bit of time. Then fill the pot heat for 20 minutes and then cook for 90. Then cool for 15 minutes to open the lid. If you have more quarts you dump the hot water and start over with cold. No cold jars into the hot water. Drop the new jars in and 20 minutes to heat again and 90 minutes to cook again. My canner only runs 7 quarts art a time.

Yeah, I could prep differently, not sure it matters that much, but I am cooking a long time making a double batch for the shelf. this is a lot of work one day to make shelf ready easy meals. Got to say I ain't eaten nothing this good out of a can from the store. I've seen people brown meat and other things before canning, but I've yet to be sold on its necessity so far. So, if you think it is, state your case and educate me on why it is so, and I will listen. Maybe a taste issue, but is pre-cooked better than jar cooked? I am not sure at this time.


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## archeryrob (May 19, 2021)

Brokenhandle said:


> Looks and sounds really good!  We might have to give this a try!  Bet you love that canner! We bought the 921 and for the same reason as you... my wife felt the same as yours.
> 
> Ryan


Yeah, I wish I had the 921, but the 915 is all the wife would sign off on. She doesn't eat most of it and me and the girl are the main ones using it. The wife would rather have a sammich than eat deer stroganoff. She has that cute deer thing stuck in her head. Like my buddy has to sell his steers and buy someone elses for the freezer as his wife won't their cows.  It just confounds me.


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## daveomak (May 20, 2021)

Headspace...  When storing canned food, the headspace is what determines the vacuum on the jar...   NO headspace = NO vacuum...   You can't have vacuum where there is no space...  I like to have ~3/4-1" headspace just to be on the safe side...
Cooking time at the book guidelines......   In the event, there were any botulism bacteria in your product, and they gave off any spores for future bacteria to emerge from, the center of the jar MUST reach the deadly temperature for XX minutes to insure their death....
Cooking the jars, in the canner under no pressure, expels any "room air" that was captured when the lids were installed...   I put the bands on the lids, finger tip"snug" so any air can be easily expelled... Air causes false pressure readings...  Just like air in your brake lines, from what I "understand"....  and it contains oxygen which will screw up and oxidize the food inside...   That air is what shows up as "invisible" when expelling the steam from the open vent during the initial heating up process...  That's why it's usually noted to vent the canner until nothing but steam is venting...

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## chef jimmyj (May 20, 2021)

Browning Food, involves Caramelization of sugars, in vegetables in this case, to develop more flavorful Compounds and the Maillard Reaction, the browning of Protein, meat, creating dozens of new and deeply flavored Compounds.  
An experiment I had my students do to drive the above concepts home, was to make 2 small batches of Basic Beef Stew. Batch 1, toss everything in the pot, Meat, Veg, Salt, Herbs and Spices, cover with water, simmer until tender. 
For Batch 2, the meat was heavily Browned in Olive Oil and set aside. All the veggies were then added to the same pot and Sautéed until Golden Brown. Add the meat back with the same Seasonings, add water to cover, scraping the Brown Fond off the bottom of the pot, then simmer until tender. They then compared the flavor of each and described them.
Ive done this experiment with hundreds of students and EVERYONE chose the Browned Stew for it's Rich, Deeper Flavor, the more appealing Brown Color and it's much more Intense, Mouth-watering Aroma that reminded them of Sunday Supper at Grandma's House.
The " Toss in the Pot " stew was Bland,  with a Dull Color and One Note Aroma. Students describe the flavor and  aroma as kind of Grassy and Raw with little appeal, compared to the Browned Stew. Some described the Toss in the Pot stew as their Mom's Crock Pot Stew they thought was good until now.

Below is a Link to an article that goes deeper into the Maillard Reaction and why, to quote Food Network Chef Anne Burrell,  in a guttural, raspy voice..." BROWN FOOD TASTES GOOD! "...JJ









						An Introduction to the Maillard Reaction
					

If you plan on cooking tonight, chances are you'll be using the Maillard reaction to transform your raw ingredients into a better sensory experience.




					www.seriouseats.com
				



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## archeryrob (May 20, 2021)

Thanks Chef Jimmyj, I'll have to see how much time I have when making it next time. I got a 4# pack, cut and cubed already, set aside in the freezer for experiments and could try it out. Is  the meat the largest contributor to the flavor, or mushrooms and onion too? Or are they minor for sauteed?

I stuff the meat raw into the bottoms and other stuff on top. so I could saute it all in a large pan and then out of the pan right into the jar and raw pack the rest on top of the cooling meat.
Dave I think the head space gets slightly larger as broth cooks into the mushrooms and they release their air during the pressure cooking. The one inch head space became about 1.5" to 2" if you compare the start to finished jars in the pics.  You can see the drop in the water for the top.


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## chef jimmyj (May 20, 2021)

The meat, mushrooms and onions are a 3 piece Band. Each plays their part in flavoring the whole. While getting it all brown is optimal, do what you can. I would say browning the Mushrooms and Onions would be the minimum. This way you get a lot of flavor and eliminate the changing head space issue. You're looking for THIS!!!....JJ

Sautéed Mushrooms and Onions borrowed from Google Images, fried_mushrooms_recipe.jpg


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## SmokinAl (May 20, 2021)

All I can say is WOW!!
Al


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## indaswamp (May 20, 2021)

chef jimmyj
 - I have started roasting carrots in the oven @425*F.....way better than just steaming on the stove. The carrots lose some water - which concentrates the flavor, and the sugars carmelize inside the carrot for an explosion of flavor! Also retain just a hint of crunch instead of being mushy. After all these years-I now much prefer oven roasted carrots.


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## chef jimmyj (May 21, 2021)

indaswamp
 Oh Yeah!  Try adding Parsnips, whole peeled Shallots, 1"chunks Butternut Squash, "C" size Potatoes (the tiny ones), 1" Cubed Sweet Potatoes and 1" cubed Beets and/orTurnips.
Toss all in EVOO, S&P or SPOG and roast at 425° until all is tender. This is a favorite here. Gotta say the Shallots are my weakness but its all good...JJ


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