# MES Wall Hanging / Flat / Rectangular / Square Mailbox Mod!!!



## tallbm

Well I have mentioned I would post my mailbox mod.

I didn't use the standard mailbox I instead used the wall hanging type because I was going for a compact, streamlined, and efficient setup.  

I wanted to be able to add and remove the mod from the MES easily and quickly.  I think I have accomplished my goals BUT I have also learned a lesson or two that has me changing the design a bit and will help anyone else who wants to do a similar mod.

Here is what it looks like.

Gibralter steel mount wall mailbox used:













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__ tallbm
__ Jan 8, 2017






My front View:













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__ tallbm
__ Jan 8, 2017






Close up of side mail box ( I taped over two of the 3 holes after some issues today):













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__ tallbm
__ Jan 8, 2017






Top view (before tape added):













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__ tallbm
__ Jan 8, 2017






*My Mailbox Mod Goals:*

- Mod must be easily added and removed from my MES as I will be moving my MES around a bit and do not need he mod causing issues, falling apart, or breaking.

- Mod must be one piece for easy removal and less hassle

- Mod must be compact, I didn't want a bunch of pieces to deal with that were "unruly" to deal with

- Mod must be efficient, fewest and least amount of materials possible

- Mod must be simple, fewest and least amount of materials possible

- Must allow me to open the MES door at least 90 degrees without disturbing the mailbox mod (figure this positioning out before cutting the hole)

- Mod must not void my warranty by being a permanent modification to my MES

- Mod must work!

*Materials:*   (Total cost approximately $63 because I had none of the stuff before hand.  AMNPS was almost half the total cost.)

- Gibralter wall hanging/mount mailbox ($11.11 - Amazon)

- 3 inch 90 degree duct elbow joint  (Under $4 - Home Depot)

- AMNPS (A-Maze-N Pellet Smoker   $27.74 - Amazon)   

- 3M High Temperature Flue Tape (heat resistant up to 600 degrees!  $7.88 - Amazon)

- 2 Magnets able to hold 16 pounds each ($12.90  - Amazon, $6.45/ea)  - *Would not do magnets if had to do over!*

*Tools used to build:*

- Dremel rotary tool with Large Diamond Wheel (to cut the top of the mailbox

- Needle Nose Plyers (to bend the mail box metal as I cut a pie type slits to make the whole for the elbow joint to fit)

- Drill with 3/8 inch bit.  Used to drill 3 holes in door.  - *Would only drill the top hole (1 hole total) if had to do over!*

*Lessons Learned:*

- The unmodified Mailbox naturally has a lot of air intake at the door because the door does not sit flush to the mailbox where the hinge of the door is.  There is always about a 1/4 inch of a gap the whole length of the door on the hinge side of the door (bottom side of door where it hinges to open, not visible in picture). The gap lets in plenty of air.  Maybe even the top hole in the door is not needed, time will tell.

- The AMNPS is a tight fit to the mailbox.  SO fill with pellets first.  Put in mailbox to ensure any overly pilled pellets are pushed down tighter into the AMNPS and then pull back out for lighting.  This will make sure the AMNPS and pellets have good clearance before any fire is applied. This is just safe and fool proof :)

- Light and start the AMNPS burning process outside of the box.  See the last image above.  There is so little clearance that you don't want flame burning directly against the top of the mailbox

- Magnets holding the mailbox to the MES seem like a really good idea UNTIL your first serious flame up occurs and the magnets take enough heat to become de-magnetized.  This happened to me today because I was hasty and did a few stupid things like not blow out the pellets very well and then I had the foolish idea of "hey why don't I throw a few pellets on top of the already burned down pellets from the AMNPS startup process.  This caused flamage so I would not recommend adding more pellets on top of already burned down pellets when there is still more of the row to burn hahaha

- Build legs or stuff something under the mailbox to hold it up.  The magnets were amazing until a pellet flame up killed them.  I need something fool proof that still meets my goals above

- There is little to no information on Mailbox mods that use this wall hanging box over the standard dome shaped mailbox.  I hope my lessons learned help people build a more compact and elegant solutions to continue improving and innovating on the mailbox mod :)

Well everyone if you made it this far I hope this helps you out and/or gives you some food for thought on less typical mailbox mods for the MES and other smokers :)


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## old sarge

Nice project!


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## tallbm

old sarge said:


> Nice project!


Thanks.  I'm hoping all this info helps others with their mailbox mod ideas :)


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## SmokinAl

Looks like a good experiment!

For my application, I think I would want more pipe between the smoker & the mailbox.

Al


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## tallbm

SmokinAl said:


> Looks like a good experiment!
> 
> For my application, I think I would want more pipe between the smoker & the mailbox.
> 
> Al


Hi Al.  Yeah it is definitely an experiment.  I'm sure I'll learn more things as I go.  I will be sure to report back what I learn just like how I learned yesterday that a flame up not caught early will kill the magnets so magnets are not sure thing for keeping the box up.

I may also learn that I want more pipe.  Most of my smoking will be hot smoking and in TX cold smoking may be an issue for many months out of the year so I'll simply make my attempts and learn how things behave :)


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## sigmo

Great project.

I hadn't thought about the thermal effect on the magnets in this application. 

I did know that neodymium iron boron super magnets have a very low temperature tolerance and will be permanently damaged by temperatures above some fairly low limit.  And I knew that various ferrous metals have a "curie point" where  they lose their magnetic properties temporarily while they are above that temp (but then regain them when they cool below it again).

But I never really thought about any of that in this application.   So that is good information for all of us!

What kind of magnets were they, and are they now permanently ruined?  If so, that's a shame.  Either way, its something for all of us to keep in mind, because using magnets to make the temporary attachment seems like such a great way to go.

Like Al, I would also probably want a long section of duct between my mailbox and the smoker to get more cooling of the smoke and more condensation and trapping of the heavier tars.  That conditioning of the smoke would be my main reason for implementing a mailbox mod since my other mods are giving me reliable pellet burning lately.

You might also want a longer pipe from the mailbox to the smoker.  If that's the case, you might be able to use the magnet method to hold the pipe to the inlet of the smoker, which maintains your warranty and means no drilling or permanent mods to the smoker.  Since the smoke will be cool by the time it reaches the smoker, the magnets would work well at that end even if you did have flamage in the mailbox itself.

I have a small computer fan with magnets at the corners that I've stuck to the air inlet on my MES, and it sticks there well because the outer surface of the smoker stays fairly cool.  I think a magnetic attachment for the duct from a mailbox smoke generator might be really handy.  So I like your idea, and think it would be great with that modification of the arrangement.


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## mr t 59874

TallBM said:


> I may also learn that I want more pipe.  Most of my smoking will be hot smoking and in TX cold smoking may be an issue for many months out of the year so I'll simply make my attempts and learn how things behave :)


TallBM,

As you are in a learning mode, if you are planning on cold smoking, seriously consider lengthening your pipe. Not only will it help cool your smoke, many undesirable deposits will accumulate on it, making your smoke much cleaner by the time it reaches your product.

The mailbox / firebox you are using also acts as a heat sink, the larger the better. A larger mailbox / firebox will also allow you to shorten your pipe if desired. Locate all in a shaded area if possible.

 Have fun experimenting until you get the desired smoke to your product.

T


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## tallbm

Sigmo said:


> Great project.
> 
> I hadn't thought about the thermal effect on the magnets in this application.
> 
> I did know that neodymium iron boron super magnets have a very low temperature tolerance and will be permanently damaged by temperatures above some fairly low limit. And I knew that various ferrous metals have a "curie point" where they lose their magnetic properties temporarily while they are above that temp (but then regain them when they cool below it again).
> 
> But I never really thought about any of that in this application. So that is good information for all of us!
> 
> What kind of magnets were they, and are they now permanently ruined? If so, that's a shame. Either way, its something for all of us to keep in mind, because using magnets to make the temporary attachment seems like such a great way to go.
> 
> Like Al, I would also probably want a long section of duct between my mailbox and the smoker to get more cooling of the smoke and more condensation and trapping of the heavier tars. That conditioning of the smoke would be my main reason for implementing a mailbox mod since my other mods are giving me reliable pellet burning lately.
> 
> You might also want a longer pipe from the mailbox to the smoker. If that's the case, you might be able to use the magnet method to hold the pipe to the inlet of the smoker, which maintains your warranty and means no drilling or permanent mods to the smoker. Since the smoke will be cool by the time it reaches the smoker, the magnets would work well at that end even if you did have flamage in the mailbox itself.
> 
> I have a small computer fan with magnets at the corners that I've stuck to the air inlet on my MES, and it sticks there well because the outer surface of the smoker stays fairly cool. I think a magnetic attachment for the duct from a mailbox smoke generator might be really handy. So I like your idea, and think it would be great with that modification of the arrangement.


Hi Sigmo, I used two of these magnets One Piece of CMS Magnetics Super Strong Neodymium Magnet 3"x 1/2"x 1/8" Grade N45 () 

One magnet is showing no magnetic capability the other is very weak.  I now just glued the two magnets to the right hand side of the mailbox and they now act as legs.  So I plug my box + elbow duct into the hole which holds up the left side of the mailbox mod and the legs prop up the right hand side making the whole thing stand up without issue when attached.  This little fix keeps the mailbox mod in place with ease so I still made good use of the busted magnets hahahaha ).

If I had more magnets I would do as you mention, that would be a much safer design.  I am out of magnets so the leg solution should be a simple no frills solution.

Mr T, 

The beauty of this little setup is that I can always add a hose as needed... and 2 more legs (I have some wood scraps).  I have a 3" aluminum expandable duct when the time comes to add some length.

Did a smoke today and temp was only off by about 80-12 degrees at the highest MES temp.  I got the smoker up to 270, so only short 5 degrees today.


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## SmokinGame

After ready the posts became interested in affect of temp on magnets. Found this link which offered some quick comments ... https://www.jobmastermagnets.com/how-does-temperature-affect-different-magnets.


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## tallbm

SmokinGame said:


> After ready the posts became interested in affect of temp on magnets. Found this link which offered some quick comments ... https://www.jobmastermagnets.com/how-does-temperature-affect-different-magnets.



Thanks for the input!
Yep that article explains exactly what happened.  I had a flame over using my pellets and it got so hot that the magnets lost all or almost all of their strength permanently.  

It was a cool idea but had an inherent flaw that magnets don't like heat lol.  These particular magnets sure did make good legs for the Mailbox when they lost magnetism :D


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## cmayna

Yes, for cold smoking, put some distance between the mailbox and the smoker


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## uncle eddie

Posting to follow this thread and see what your end result is.  I like where this is going too...


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## SmokinGame

tallbm said:


> Thanks for the input!
> Yep that article explains exactly what happened.  I had a flame over using my pellets and it got so hot that the magnets lost all or almost all of their strength permanently.
> 
> It was a cool idea but had an inherent flaw that magnets don't like heat lol.  These particular magnets sure did make good legs for the Mailbox when they lost magnetism :D



Noticed a couple of the magnet types will handle up to 500C (900F+).


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## nanuk

would it void the warranty to screw two small screws above the intake, make some tabs with keyholes in them, to "Hang" the mailbox...   making it removable simply by tipping the duct out, and lifting the mailbox off the two screws?


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## tallbm

nanuk said:


> would it void the warranty to screw two small screws above the intake, make some tabs with keyholes in them, to "Hang" the mailbox...   making it removable simply by tipping the duct out, and lifting the mailbox off the two screws?


It probably would void the warranty but the MES warranty is only 90 days anyhow so its not a bad idea to let the warranty expire and then go to town with the mods if you want to maximize that small warranty.

If I'm reading what you are saying correctly, the setup you mention would look just like mine (mailbox and elbow joint) BUT the mailbox would be able to cling to the side of the MES.  That would work just like the magnets were doing to hold the mailbox to the side of the MES.

In the end it may look much cooler but with hind sight being 20/20 it is really no more beneficial than just slapping legs on the mailbox so it can stand up.  As long as both approaches work I would go with the lowest costing and least labor intensive option because in the end all that matters is that the smoke consistently gets into the MES through the chip loader hole and does so with good air flow over the pellets in the mailbox :)


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## dr k

I believe MB has a full year warranty but didn't change the manual on 90 days. I think I asked after hearing that but can't remember. Someone else mentioned it as well.


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## tallbm

dr k said:


> I believe MB has a full year warranty but didn't change the manual on 90 days. I think I asked after hearing that but can't remember. Someone else mentioned it as well.


Could be.  Mine is out no matter what with all of my wild mods :D


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## normanaj

90 days for products using charcoal and 1yr for everything else.
https://masterbuilt.com/support/warranty


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## Atoparok

Nice project! I'm presently fighting with a mailbox mod myself. Can't seem to keep the pellets smoldering. Get an hour or maybe two out of it before it burns out. I'm sure it's an airflow issue, though I can't keep it smoking in my gas grill either. Running a regular mailbox with a 1/2" hole on each side and now 9 on the bottom. Think I should close those off and put a few in the lid of the mailbox?


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## tallbm

Atoparok said:


> Nice project! I'm presently fighting with a mailbox mod myself. Can't seem to keep the pellets smoldering. Get an hour or maybe two out of it before it burns out. I'm sure it's an airflow issue, though I can't keep it smoking in my gas grill either. Running a regular mailbox with a 1/2" hole on each side and now 9 on the bottom. Think I should close those off and put a few in the lid of the mailbox?



Hi there and welcome!
I don't think it would hurt.  You could roll with all of the holes open and then close off any as needed based on the performance with all holes open.

Have you tried microwaving your pellets?  Believe it or not but the pellets absorb humidity even though they are always dry to the touch.

I always suggest microwaving the pellets for 1 min 25 sec. Pull them out and mix them around and wait for 2 minutes.  Then put them back in for another 1 min 25 sec.
This is all I ever have to do to fix any of my pellets not cooperating issues.

Another thing is to have the AMPNS and or the Mailbox elevated off the ground so air can flow under the tray and pellets.

Making both of these things happen generally fixes pellet burn out issues :)


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## Winterrider

^^^^^^
What he said will probably take care of your issues. If not, I have better luck when I make them into dust. Good luck...


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## Atoparok

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> I don't think it would hurt.  You could roll with all of the holes open and then close off any as needed based on the performance with all holes open.
> 
> Have you tried microwaving your pellets?  Believe it or not but the pellets absorb humidity even though they are always dry to the touch.
> 
> I always suggest microwaving the pellets for 1 min 25 sec. Pull them out and mix them around and wait for 2 minutes.  Then put them back in for another 1 min 25 sec.
> This is all I ever have to do to fix any of my pellets not cooperating issues.
> 
> Another thing is to have the AMPNS and or the Mailbox elevated off the ground so air can flow under the tray and pellets.
> 
> Making both of these things happen generally fixes pellet burn out issues :)


I began with one hole on one side and three on the bottom. Couldn't get any smoke going, so I kept drilling till I had eight on bottom and one on each side. I have tried microwaving one minute, then two minutes. I even baked them for ten minutes today at 350. Mailbox is supported off the ground by two inches using 'L' brackets. But, like I said, I can't make it burn outside of the mailbox either. ...and I have used the sawdust that I have been using in my slow smoker attachment. Can't wait to try different pellets...


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## sigmo

What's the elevation at your location?


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## Atoparok

sigmo said:


> What's the elevation at your location?


7,200 plus a bit. Think that could be an issue?


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## sigmo

Absolutely!

Even where I'm at, at 5200 feet, I have to go to fairly extensive lengths to get good reliable burning of pellets in my AMNPS.  Most of the folks on this forum are at much lower elevations, and it does make a big difference.

Drying the pellets is a huge deal.  I have to get mine very dry.  I cook them in a convection oven for half an hour to an hour at 250F or so.  Then I put them into mason jars while they're still fairly hot and seal them up until I'm ready to use them.  Plastic bags are no good because while a typical bag stops liquid water, it won't stop water vapor.  You can smell an onion right through a baggie, and those are larger molecules than water vapor.

Mason jars are cheap and reusable.  Make sure to keep sawdust off of the sealing surfaces by wiping the rim of the jar before attaching the lid each time and they seal up very well.

I have not tried grinding the pellets into dust, but some folks have had good luck with that method.

I have modified my MES-40 quite a bit to get good airflow, and I have baffles that direct the airflow right at/over the AMNPS.  I'm not using a mailbox mod - yet.

Many people claim that at my elevation, the AMNPS (maze) will not work at all and I need to use one of the tube type smoke generators with dust.  However, I've gotten it to work by making sure the pellets are very dry and making sure that they receive a LOT of air.

I also pre-heat my smoker so that when I put the maze full of pellets in, the smoker is already hot, and will "draw" well.

I have about a ten inch section of stovepipe that I jam into the top vent opening to get extra draw.

I light the pellets on fire with a Mapp Gas torch, and allow them to burn with a flame with the door of the smoker open for 10 minutes or so.  Then I blow them out and then hold a small computer fan so it's blowing right on the cherry, making it really glow hot.  After a while, the thing will burst into open flame on its own as soon as I take the fan away from it.  I let it burn for a bit longer, and then blow it out.  At that point, it's very hard to blow out.  It keeps re-lighting like one of those joke birthday cake candles, but eventually it settles down and will just smolder.

Then, and only then, do I close the door of the smoker.  But I have the pellet hopper/dumper thing completely removed.  And I have the "guts" of the whole original chip burner taken out of the smoker.  I have some bent aluminum to direct the air that comes into the chip hopper hole right at where I put the pellet tray.  The tray is up off of the floor of the smoker because it's resting on a pair of metal rods in the lower left of this particular smoker.

So:  Very dry pellets.
Lots of airflow - helped by making sure the smoker is hot and the "chimney" is in place to increase the draft through the whole works.
Never any water pan, and certainly no water.

I think you probably will need more airflow than what people are recommending because of your very high elevation.

For cold smoking, I use that same small computer fan, to which I've attached four strong magnets at the corners, stuck over the hopper hole (which is the air intake for my setup) blowing fresh air into the smoker, of course.  I adjust its position to get the airflow I want.  If it's directly over the opening, then I get max airflow.  Slide it off to the side so more or less of the fan is over the hole, and I can get less as needed.

I can imagine possibly needing to use a fan to force air through a mailbox for cold smoking at high elevation because there would be no natural draft up through the smoker with it being cold.

High elevation presents some challenges, but it's really pretty basic.  You just need to get enough oxygen to the pellets to achieve that "just right" rate of burning.  And that means you have to play with it for your particular elevation, humidity, temperature, etc.

I've got to try grinding some pellets into dust sometime.  That seems like a great idea, and I've never tried it.


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## normanaj

Atoparok said:


> Nice project! I'm presently fighting with a mailbox mod myself. Can't seem to keep the pellets smoldering. Get an hour or maybe two out of it before it burns out. I'm sure it's an airflow issue, though I can't keep it smoking in my gas grill either. Running a regular mailbox with a 1/2" hole on each side and now 9 on the bottom. Think I should close those off and put a few in the lid of the mailbox?



If you're having issues with the tray I highly recommend using the AMNTS (tube) w/u-bolt mod.I've been doing this for the last two years.

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/u-bolt-mod-for-the-amnts.271846/


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## tallbm

I also think one guy put a small fan blowing towards (not like directly in) his mailbox mod.  If you wanted to go to those lengths you would then be forcing more airflow.  You would just have to watch and make sure the fan didn't produce so much air that you are now causing flame ups/ignition with the pellets lol


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## sigmo

Yep to all!  :)

And one thing I left out:

The depth to which you pile the pellets into the maze is a HUGE factor.  I knew I was leaving something out of my comments above.

While you do not want the pellets to touch across the divides between the rows, causing a "short circuit", with the burn jumping across from one row to the other, you DO want to stack the pellets in as high as possible without creating a short circuit.

I pile them in deep and then use a spoon or my fingers to make sure the rows don't touch.  The pellets are above the top of the tray, mounded up a bit.

Having a larger "flame front" creates more heat right at the cherry, and that helps to drive the moisture out of the nearby unburned pellets right before the cherry gets to them.  That's another key to getting pellets to burn reliably at high elevation.  At lower elevations, people keep the pellets low to avoid short circuiting.  At high elevation, you can get away with having them piled in deep, and in fact, you must do this or the pellets will often go out.

But the dust idea is something I need to try, too.  I read a thread on here where people discussed various ways of reducing your pellets to dust, and I'll have to play with all of that.

I've also thought of building a forced air smoke generator.  I even bought an aquarium air pump and high temperature silicone tubing to use for that.  I think it would be interesting to try one of those rigs.  I just haven't had the time to play with it all adequately.

So many possibilities!  :)


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## tallbm

An easy way to make dust from pellets is to get them wet and then let them dry out in the sun or in the oven/smoker.  If in the sun make sure the wind won't blow it all away hahahaha.
When the pellets get wet they puff up as the compressed dust particles expand.  Then when it dries you just touch the pellet puffs and they fall apart.  Very simple :)


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