# Much conflicting info



## richtee (Dec 3, 2007)

On the treatment/prep of game meat, in particular venison.

Wash/soak meat or not?

Use a weak salt water brine to remove blood? Or no?

Milk soak or other than water/salt?

I know many have a TON more experience than I here.

Opinions please? And if there's any empirical data- IE: side by side comparisons done on treated/non-treated meat by anyone, all the better!


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## twistertail (Dec 3, 2007)

I have never done any kind of soak with any deer meat.  I let it hang for a few days before I cut it up and then freeze it before I eat any.  I have read something that you should freeze it to kill anything that might be in the meat but know plenty of people that eat some of it fresh while they are processing.


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## gramason (Dec 3, 2007)

I have always soaked in salt water over night, changing the water a couple times, and then freezing, thats when we butcher them. I try to soak it before I cook it when it comes from the butcher, because I don't believe the butcher soaks it. We cut one up last weekend and I soaked it, it seems to pull alot of blood out.


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## richtee (Dec 3, 2007)

But is that a good thing?


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## gramason (Dec 3, 2007)

I've never had bad tasting deer from soaking it, I just googled it, and it seems that alot recommend to soak in salt water or butter milk. I can't answer if its a good or bad thing, i've always had good results.


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## richtee (Dec 3, 2007)

Well, OK. I have about 35 lbs venison here to do for a bud of mine. Mainly burger/sausage. I can keep a bit, so I'm gonna make 2 identical 1 lb sausage chubs, 1 with weak brine soak/rinse, 1 without. Also, he does want a small amout of jerky. I'll split this the same way. Kinda a PITA, but enquiring minds, ya see   ;{)

All his stuff, as requested, I'm not gonna soak. He does not want me to even wash it... just manually pick off the bit of hair that you inevitably get when quartering, and of course trim tallow, any easily gotten sinew..

I'll let y'all know if any thing shakes out of this.
Personally, I'd have to go with the weak brine soak, but it may be hard to tell, since the deer came from right around here IE: well fed... grass, corn, etc.

Maybe a better  test would be a tough old swamp buck   heh.


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## hell fire grill (Dec 3, 2007)

From what I understand some people soak deer meat to remove the gamey flavor. I have never done it, never had a problem with that flavor. I do rinse all meat with cold water before cooking to wash away any old blood, water or anything on the surface of the meat. I dont know why people kill animals or accept parts of them from others if they know they dont like the taste. my.02


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## goat (Dec 3, 2007)

Rich,
I probably take 20 - 30 deer/year.  If it is cool, I let them hang a few days or if I have access to a cooler, I let them hang.  Most of the time in this part of Texas, it is warm and I at least muscle them out and freeze, then process further at a later date.  The only thing I soak is cutlets, prior to frying.  I have soaked them in buttermilk, milk, milk and egg, jalapeño juice, beer, and Miracle Dip just to name a few.  I did not do this to remove any flavor or blood.  It makes me feel good and makes the flour mix adhere to the meat better.

I process my own so I that all contaminates have been washed off.  They do make a product that you can spray on the carcass that kills or slows, the growth of bacteria.  I also shoot mine in the neck or heart/lung shots.  I have not gut shot a deer in years, and do not mess the shoulders up either.

I realize that I am very lucky in being able to hunt in my back yard, and if not, real close to a cooler or residence.  If I were hunting away and took a deer, and it was hot, I would skin and quarter it.  Then I would place that in a cooler with the drain open and keep covering the meat with ice.  My main purpose in this would be to cool the meat while in transit.

Sorry to ramble, but I am a no-soaker, and I have never had anyone say that my venison had a gamey or deer taste.

PS:  I have given away, or thrown away some deer that had been eating excessive amounts of Cedar.  They stunk, the meat stunk and I got rid of it.  No amount of soaking was going to cure that smell.


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## cowgirl (Dec 3, 2007)

Good post goat! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			





I think you said it all.....it does depend on how the deer was taken and how it was field dressed and handled.


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## richtee (Dec 3, 2007)

Thanks Goat! 'preciate the input!


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## nocontest (Dec 3, 2007)

It is a great debate between hunters on aging venison.  As far as soaking, I can say overall- most would not think of soaking venison.  I base this on Michigan deer though- western venison taste much different.  

I feel that venison needs to be treated as a expensive cut of beef.  I do not use the word "gamey"  A squirrel is not a chicken.  Venison is not beef.  I would never cook venison past medium and I would never soak venison unless it was part of a recipe- or corning.  I hunt, dress, process & cook my own venison, including canning, corning, sausage, links, & smoking.  I have great recipes if anyone is interested.

Bottom line- I would not soak venison.  Improperly handling venison once the animal is down has a lot to do with flavor.  I disagree with freezing venison to kill bacteria, that could be a dangerous presumption.

Just my 2 cents.


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## goat (Dec 3, 2007)

Good post, I am with you on the last sentence also.


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## goat (Dec 3, 2007)

I really do not understand why some folks insist on soaking their deer to get the blood out.  #1 if they are shot right, they will bleed out anyway.  #2 no one ever talks about soaking any other cut of meat.  I cut up 60 lbs of pork butts to make sausage today and there were a number of blood clots in everyone of them.  If you ever chop up beef there will be blood clots.  Lord only knows about those yard birds, no tellin what they are contaminated with.

Let's harvest our deer in an humane manner, take care of the carcass the way we should, process the deer in a timely manner, cook the deer the way one would cook a very lean piece of expensive meat, and enjoy the bountiful harvest that you were so fortunate to have the right to participate in.


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## bbq bubba (Dec 4, 2007)

Rich, i usually take several deer each season from upper and lower Mich.
Do my own cleaning and processing and definetly have to agree with these guy's


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## allen (Dec 4, 2007)

I quit deer hunting at 14, but I have helped cut up deer since then and We have NEVER soaked the meat Just cut and wrap. I have smoked necks and fronts and hind quarters no problem, in fact in 2 weeks I'll be smoking Legs and quarters, like in the past No soaking but just smoking,SMF will get PICS when it happens


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## skinnerc06 (Dec 4, 2007)

We gotta deer camp down here and a walk in cooler runnning around 39 degrees.  If time allows, we gut and hang the deer for a week.  If it doesnt, I quarter it out, put it in a cooler with the drain open and pack with ice for a few days.  After that, trim it up, wrap and freeze it.  The cooler with ice works just as well as a walk in cooler in my opinion, and its pretty easy to do.  A big bag of ice every other day is all you need.  In the end, we dont soak any of the deer we harvest.


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## richtee (Dec 4, 2007)

I can't give you points again, I don't think. but-
HEAR HEAR! Or HERE HERE! Or both! I value your opinion very highly, Goat.


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## allen (Dec 4, 2007)

Hey Richtee who's getting points'S all we have done was cut, clean,and  wrap and freeze, then smoke when we're ready.


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## richtee (Dec 4, 2007)

YOU are... 'cause they be mine to give!


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## allen (Dec 4, 2007)

OK, I help cut up 3 Deer Sunday, and all we did was cut up, the choice wether it be roast, burger,or anything else, what ever people wanted and wrapped, if seasoning was to be added then it was added before it was wrapped, To be honest I have never heard of soaking deer meat.  Just cut,wash,wrap, and freeze, that is it.I have help cut up venison the last 6 years and no soaking was done.


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## richtee (Dec 4, 2007)

See? You EARNED those points.

Now..let me share a secret. That boned hind I posted? First large chunk of deer I ever trimmed. <blush> BUT.. i wasn't skerred!

Done a bit of beef, pork and birds tho   ;{)


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## allen (Dec 4, 2007)

I am Taking the 18-23 off of this month and I have never heard of anyone smoking deerlegs and quarters let alone ribs,I've done it in the past before I joined SMF and I'll do what I can to post pics. It's been done, if it's meat it can be done.


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## richtee (Dec 4, 2007)

Surprisingly...
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...light=shoulder

My first major venison undertaking. Of course i asked for advice here  :{)


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## minn.bill (Dec 4, 2007)

been hunting deer since i was 12 am 47 now,kill cut wash and rap.never ever heard of soaking anything


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## midnight (Dec 4, 2007)

Up here in the North alot of people will soak their game birds in salt water over night (myself included). But we don't do it to get rid of any "gamey" flavor, the reason we soak is to pull out the small pin feathers or hairs and any large blood clots that may be in the birds after hand picking them and rinsing them. We don't soak deer becuse most of the hairs are large and on the outside of the meat. A good rinse is all it usually takes. You can soak a deer roast for days and it won't remove all of the blood or most of the "gamey" flavors. If you take proper care of the animals in the field then there sholdn't be much gamey flavor to start with.


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## pmroadie (Dec 31, 2007)

agree with ya,,,, Thats about the same thing I do....  also  i don't add any brine  to deer  just ice about three days.... on wild hog I do the same but I use a bottle of real lemon 32oz and ice for up to 7 days.


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## emtee (Dec 31, 2007)

I have never soaked deer meat. I wash it while cutting it up (I de-bone everything and portion it all for two people) and packaging. 

I have found that no matter what I do, deer meat is rather dry when burgering or sausaging, so I add pork to it- usually about 70% deer -30% pork. Next best thing to heavenly in my book!


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## cook1536 (Dec 31, 2007)

Processing your own meat makes a huge difference. I process my own and the only thing I do is sometimes I soak it in a brine for a hour or so or marinade it depending on my mood. I have soaked deer in salt water for several days, cooked it the next day after harvesting, I have even cooked it as soon as I cut it off the deer and rinsed. I can't really tell a difference either way. It all comes down to how you cook it and season it more than anything. I have never had anyone grip about eating my deer meat, but then again they know they would never get any again if they did grip.


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## dodgeramsst2003 (Jan 27, 2008)

I know this post is a little late, but I live and hunt in MI.  My thoughts are you have to take into consideration where the deer was taken at.  I hunt the mid-lower peninsula and the deer down here have a very good life, eating corn and beans and such, they have little if any "wild" taste to them.  U.P deer and very northern lower peninsula deer have it a little tougher and may have more of that wild flavor.  That being said, I have never soaked venison, and probably never will.  All of my game has  a very mild flavor, and I have never been disappointed.  


Chris


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## kookie (Jan 27, 2008)

I will have to say this is the first time I have ever heard of soaking deer to get the blood out or flavor. The flavor is all based on what the deer ate when it was alive. I live in North Dakota and I know deer from western ND have a milder game flavor then deer from Minnasota. But that goes back to what they ate. The age of the deer also affects the flavor too. I worked for many years in a grocery store meat dept. in a smaller town. We processed deer and buffalo and elk and whatever the customer brought in. And we never soaked any deer meat, after cutting up and before wrapping. We might brine it if the recipe called for it, but thats not what this thread is asking. Like Midnight said I have soaked pheasent in salt water to get the last of the feathers off. 
My thought on all this is you don't like the taste or flavor of deer then go buy beef.

Kookie


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## richtee (Jan 27, 2008)

It's not that I don't like the flavor. I don't like the "gamey" flavor if the animal had a less than optimal diet, shall we say. Not really a concern right in my neck of the woods, but look at the Upper Pen. of Michigan, and imagine that diet.


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## linescum (Jan 27, 2008)

when i hunted i would put my game, bunnies, squirrel, venison, in the downstairs sink with saltwater and change it every 6 hours for a couple of days especially for the venison and i never had a complaint about gamey taste


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## welder (Jan 27, 2008)

I don't like deer. I have ate it several ways by different cook it all taste the same . I even cook a ham each Thanksgiving everyone else love it but not me.P.S. I have soak it in milk that tend to take some of the gamess out of it.


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## packplantpath (Feb 21, 2008)

My father in law did some deer ribs.  Not worth the effort.  Mostly bone with tough meat attached.

As far as freezing, it's not a matter of bacteria.  Bacteria survive freezing fairly well and besides, they are killed at pretty low temps when cooking.  I'm pretty sure it's a matter of microscopic worms (nematodes) that are the problem.  I know it's a problem with fish, it's why most tuna is frozen before being served as sushi.  I assume deer have parasitic nematodes that could live in the meat and pose a risk.  I know squirrels do.  

Cooking to 180 (I think that's right, may be a bit high) kills the worms, but some cuts of meat aren't too tasty if taken that high.


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## travcoman45 (Feb 21, 2008)

So many things affect game meat taste.  The age of the animal, if it was run hard before harvest, how soon it was gutted and how quickly it was cooled down after harvest, the animals diet, if the animal was male or female can affect many kinds.

Here in Iowa, we have mostly grain fed dear, so they really don't have a Gamey taste to them, although an older buck (Ya know, the trophies everybody is after) are a bit tougher and gameier then the does.  My preference has always been, if I'm lookin for meat, shoot a doe, lookin to hang it on the wall, go for the buck, then live with that choice at the dinner table.

Some folks do soak in milk to help with the taste.  I guess it has never really bothered me much.  Course, I make most of mine into sausage and save a few steaks for grillin.

I think it really comes down to personnel taste!  There are probably as many ways of dealing with it as there are posters here on the board!  And that is what makes this a cool place!

Hope this helps some.  Good luck Rich!


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## richtee (Feb 21, 2008)

Is is in fact recommended deer meat be frozen at 0 for longer than a week or several days well below zero. I could look it up, and the paper has been posted here. But I remember it's the nematode issue that prompts this.


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## richtee (Feb 21, 2008)

Yer a good man..thanks Ken!


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## funh2o (Feb 21, 2008)

Rich,
When we process our deer, we just do like your friend wants it done. We will pick off the excess hair as you mentioned and then rinse off the meat when it is all deboned. Then we will mix with pork and spices and stuff.  Never have had a problem with any of it. If it is frozen, we might have to wait until the next day to debone it. Sounds like it is already deboned for you.

Let us know how it turnes out.

Happy Smokin

Steve


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## richtee (Feb 21, 2008)

It turned out excellent. This particular batch was boned, but have since done a whole hind, and a complete deer. All from around me. The hind was not frozen, but the deer I got was basically frozen while hanging. Not to the specs above, but as it was all cooked to 160 min... I was not worried.

I did wash the meat, and soaked in weak chilled salt water for an hour or so. I was also very assiduous in removing all tallow and tendon I could.

I did a cured backstrap, had a strap fresh roasted, jerky and pork mixed sausage. All were extremely quality meats.


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## fireguy (Feb 22, 2008)

Rich, along with many variables to good wild game as described in your thread, I think you hit a very important step with removing " tendon and tallow". All my wife and I eat is Venison ( 5-6 a year), I Love the taste. That being said, I have had some terrible venison from processors and folks who just arent on the right path to properly processing there game.
We spend extra time trimming out all fat and especially that Shinny tendonY ( those are official terms) stuff. I am convinced that is a crucial step to the best tasting venison, also in Wild HOgs, antelope, heck everything. Course this is all just another opinion..


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## packplantpath (Feb 22, 2008)

Yea, looked just like that.  Except there wasn't any meat on it
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






, unlike yours.  They looked like they were cut just above where the meat was.  Didn't taste bad really, just not worth the effort.  

He got them from somebody else who was going to throw them away.  Thought it was worth a try, so we threw them on with some pork.  Eh, no loss anyway.


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## oldschoolbbq (Oct 7, 2009)

For what it's worth, I was raised in Cen-Tex. and did a LOT of deer hunting(some legal) as a yaung man. An old timer told me once that when processing game, you should have plenty of water handy(like a hose) and to eash it everytime you make a cut. Especially the skinning process and Musk glands! He said it was the hair that gave the meat that rancid or gamey taste.
Having said that, I have never hadspose of any meat due to bad taste.Yeah, I burned a lot of it, but it tasted good too.LOL
I guess cleanliness is next to goodness(or something like that...
Oh, if you happen to have some extra,I'll be there as soon as possible.......


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## meat hunter (Oct 7, 2009)

When it comes to processing a deer, most people wash or rinse the meat simply because you are unable to hang it immediately like you would a beef cow once it is killed and drain the blood. Deer usually sit for a a couple of hours before they are hoisted and the blood starts to coagulate. That is why you see more blood in your venison when you thaw it then you do in a store bought piece of beef. The hair of a deer has no bearing on the taste of the animal, unless it is poorly cut and there are a bunch of hairs mixed in with it. The musk gland, or Tarsal gland, is a gland located on the rear legs, behind the first joint. It is a blackish in color and looks like the pad on a dogs paw. This gland is used in marking territory and letting other deer know who's who. This gland always emits an odor, but really starts to stink during the rut, when the buck will bring his hind legs together and forward somewhat, then urinate onto the gland, where his scent is then transferred to the ground for other deer to know he is there. Unless this gland is touched by your hands and you proceed to process your deer, this gland has no impact on the taste of the meat. 

As far as a gamy taste, there is no such thing as a gamy taste in wild game. Wild game is WILD game. Whether it be deer, rabbit even fish. Wild games diet is considerably different than that of a pasture or feed lot raised side of beef. It is the difference in diet that gives venison its taste. If you were to eat pen raised venison, you would notice a huge difference in the taste vs. wild venison. When you live on beef your entire life, venison will of course taste completely different than what your used to. If you were raised on venison and someone offered you a t-bone from a cow, that would taste odd to you as you were used to venison. 

That is the main reason people say they do not like venison. It simply tastes different and lacks the high fat content of store bought beef.

Now, proper field care is paramount, and can have a huge impact on taste as well. A gut shot deer that has been laying in the woods for a day or two will certainly give the meat in the area of the wound an off taste, as will cutting the bladder and not rinsing it quickly. Game that has taken a bad shot and has run for some time with adrenaline flowing will introduce lactic acid into the muscle tissue, also giving it a off taste, another reason to make sure you practice before going out in the woods.

The key to great tasting wild meat is, prepare ahead of time. Get your hoist ready before your deer arrives to be hung. Make your shot placement so the animal goes down almost immediately. Gut the deer withing minutes of it going down before the blood has a chance to start coagulating. Open the chest cavity and air it out, wiping the inside out the best you can. Use a deer wrap or something to wrap around the deer if it to be pulled out of the woods to keep and dirt and debris off the exposed meat. Cool the carcass as quickly as possible. Hang the carcass out of the sun and if available, give it a hose down with cold water. Hang in temps of 35-40. 

Wild game is something that few people will ever enjoy and should be treated for what it is, pure and simple wild game, free of hormones  and antibiotics of commercial meat.


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## tasunkawitko (Oct 8, 2009)

no, no and no.

here is a condensed version of how we do it up here. 

shoot deer. gut deer. drag deer to vehicle. take deer home. hang deer (head down). rinse (not wash) body cavity and any exposed meat down with garden hose to remove dust etc., let deer hang and age ("hang-time" determined by latitude, climate and season as well as preference - if you want more information, let me know, but in northern montana, out of the sun, i go 10 days to 2 weeks for tender venison that has great flavor). skin deer. quarter deer. break quarters down into boneless roasts. remove any fat, silverskin etc. from roasts so that only meat is left. cut roasts into steaks, cubes or trimmed roasts. turn scraps into jerky, burger or sausage. vacuum-package meat. freeze meat. thaw meat. cook meat. enjoy meat.


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## thebattman (Oct 21, 2009)

Only time I soak venison is when it is somewhat bloody.  It can draw out some of the blood (but little but physical labor will get clotted blood fro between layers).

My experience with most folks that do a brine soak - the meat gets SALTY.  I think many do it out of the belief that it takes some of the "wild" taste out of it.

I would probably leave deer hanging too - but considering that a lot of our season sees 50+ degree days - it is none too safe.  Best practice has been to get the deer cut up and on ice as quickly as possible.


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## smoke_chef (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey Richtee... I read all your posts I can. You contribute so much here. I sure never thought I would be able to chime in with input that might help you. Not that this is much help but... I have done a side by side with no soak at all compared to a buttermilk soak. No one in my family could even tell a difference. I've never done the salt water thing though.


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## richtee (Oct 22, 2009)

Since that post, I have found about the same thing SC... and it seems the saltwater does something...but it's really just a brine. Changes the flavor, but honestly, any venison I get from around here is so good to begin with, it's a poor test. Lots of corn fed deer here  :{)

And thanks for the kudos. Enjoy!


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## downstatesmoker (Oct 22, 2009)

I know there are certain types of meats you are supposed to freeze if you are going to serve rare/raw but you have to bring them down to a certain (low) temp and hold them there for a specific period of time.  I've been looking for it but can not find what the temp/time rules are.

I used to know this stuff, gone now.  Too many adult beverages I think :)


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## erain (Oct 22, 2009)

have heard of people soaking bloody meat to pull the blood out. we always omit the meat from around the shot area. as far as the rest if properly field dressed promptly the and then hung for a few days in proper temp should have no need to soak. as far as removing gamey flavor, there are other factors which cause this. mainly proper care after the kill, adrenalin in the animal... was he chased, one that didnt have a clean kill shot, chased, age, in rut...


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## Bearcarver (Oct 22, 2009)

I never soaked any deer meat, but I only shot about 30 deer here in PA in my 40 years of hunting.
I agree with Erain, a quick clean kill, without a chase or tracking job, will keep the adrenalin from flowing, which will taint the meat.

Similar to the one time I helped my neighbor catch 5 Black Angus steers that got away from him. He was taking them to his slaughtering area when they bolted. We chased them for hours through the briars & thickets. We finally caught them. He said he was going to have to wait a few days to slaughter them, because the chase put adrenalin into the meat.


Bearcarver


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## tasunkawitko (Oct 22, 2009)

exactly ~ very well said, erain.


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## nickelmore (Oct 23, 2009)

As meat hunter and and few other have indicated, animals raised in the wild are wild. Clean is clean. My choice is to have venison taste like venison.

It is not right to compare venison to a beef.  Rabbit is suppose to taste like rabbit, not chicken. If you treat an animal with respect before, during and after the hunt, the reward will be grand.


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## erain (Oct 23, 2009)

exzactly!!!


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