# LET'S TALK BRISKET!!



## kc5tpy

Hi all.  So looking for some answers here.  Myself, gary s and oldschoolbbq smoke a brisket ALMOST identically.  We all do it " Texas style" for lack of a better phrase.  We all learned the same method.  There are MINOR differences; but basically the same.  The MAIN differences are that I don't want or try for bark and I believe they do.  I believe they trim before smoking and I trim when slicing.  I believe they use rubs and I don't.  We have done it for so long; first thing I ever smoked,  ( OK! so we are old men ) we can almost smoke a brisket in our sleep but seems SO many folks have this problem with dry and tough briskets.  Especially new folks.  We all know that the quality of the beef, and weather conditions Nah! Nah! Nah! Nah! can affect smoking but there must be some reason why so many folks have trouble with brisket.  It seems to be treated as the "holy grail" of smoking.  I'd smoke a brisket any day rather than start curing a ham.  That scares me.

So I "shot my mouth off" in a recent thread and said I think the sugar based rubs and trying for the bark may be a whole different skill level and might be the cause of some of the disappointing results??  Not saying my way is correct.  SOMETHING is going wrong.  Just trying to open a discussion as to why so many folks seem to have trouble with brisket.  Often you read their method and it looks fairly sound but they are unhappy with the results.  We should be able to sort this out.  It's a hunk of meat for heaven's sake!  It ain't rocket science.  MUST be something we are missing.  Unless we are all gonna agree brisket is a mystical thing and can only be smoked on a Sunday afternoon in Texas; and ONLY after making a sacrifice to the GREAT SMOKING GODS!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






So let's hear the problems you have had when trying to smoke a brisket and also the thoughts and methods from the folks who have "got it down".  Surly if we get this all together in one thread SOMEONE may spot a common problem.  We have so many different threads the solution may be alluding us.  Just my thoughts.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## aggie94

Hi everyone, its the first time admitting I have a problem, that's why I've come here seeking professional help.  I'm 51 years old, I'm from Texas, and I have a hard time producing good brisket.  There, that's like confessing my deepest darkest secret.  I even lived most of my life in a city known as "Cowtown"!  The Chisholm Trail ran right through town.  The first 37 years I never bothered to smoke a brisket, good barbecue was easy to find.  Then I moved to the region of pump jacks and dust storms.  No cows out here and barbecue is as hard to find as trees (none of those either).  So I bought a smoker at HEB to make my own briskets, smoked them over oak wood.  What I ended up with looks good, smells good, but is as elastic as a rubber band.  I've watched BBQ competitions on TV trying to pick up hints, I've watched Franklin's videos online, I've even resorted to cheating by putting the brisket on the smoker for 4 or 5 hours and then putting it in the oven for 4 or 5 hours.  That has finally helped make it editable, but I would like to be able to cook it entirely on the smoker.  I've gone back and tried to help the airflow problem of my offset smoker.  I've installed 2 additional temp gauges in the smoker and it has helped to get a better idea of actual temperature closer to the grate.  Recently I've purchased a Thermopop meat thermometer and hope this helps me better understand where I am at different times in the cooking process.  I've looked into attending a "brisket school" at Texas A&M Meat Science Dept but don't have the time and money.  I've even considered buying a competition smoker like some of the winning teams on TV, but seems excessive for making a good sandwich.  I'm losing the respect of my wife and family, how many times must I hear her ask "Is the brisket going to be ready in time for dinner"?  Danny I need help.  Sure I can smoke a pork loin easily, but in Texas if it isn't beef brisket it isn't barbecue!

Signed,

Deeply embarrassed


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  I know my profile says "England" but I didn't get here until I was 50.  Texas born and bred.  I am NOT the brisket guru.  I just want to see if we can take the mystery out of smoking briskets.

Well, reading your method would be helpful but we will start here.  I don't know your experience either so we start with the basics.  Sorry if you already know some of this.  I will also post some links to threads by my friend gary s..  He did a couple very good thread on briskets.  We smoke briskets ALMOST the same way; slight differences.  I hope others will offer their advice.

First thing is get yourself a good dual probe digital therm..  Most members recommend the Maverick 732-733.  The therms in the lid can be WAY off.  That may be the whole source of the problem but I'll continue.

You need to do a few modifications to that smoker to help with temp control.  Off sets can be tough to get to grips with.  Without meat, get a fire going in there to create smoke.  Small fire, BIG smoke!  NO meat.  You can even spray a little water on the coals to create BIG white smoke.  What you want to do is see where the smoke leaks are.  Mark the leaks, open the lid and allow the fire to burn down or go out.  When the smoker cools seal every leak you can using stove rope, high temp silicone, bbq gasket and such.  Next, if you have a thin flimsy fire grate use it as a template and build or have built a grate out of 1/2" concrete reinforcing steel ( rebar ).  That thin grate will sag with heat and will rest on the ash cutting off air flow to your coals.  No air flow no heat.  Other option is build a charcoal basket.  You can find baskets in the build section.  Leave that exhaust fully open and use the intake vent to control the heat.  Last tip is go buy a cheap garden trowel.  Knock the wooden handle off and weld a 2-2 1/2' piece of that rebar to the shovel.  Now you can gently scoop out the ash without them blowing all over your meat and you won't burn your hands.

I only ever did whole packer briskets.  I think the flat alone too easily dries out.  The quality of the beef will affect the finished product.  Different parts of the country are known for different smoked meat and styles.  For Texas it is sliced brisket.  Not pulled, that is for pulled pork.  I slice pork butt but that’s another story.  I have been smoking brisket for almost 40 years and as I am OLD  school and from south Texas; I am going to give you my take on traditional smoked Tx. style sliced brisket.  I still learn a trick or two every time I cook but this is how I learned it.  This may sound boring as no rubs are used, but trust me, folks were doing brisket like this a long time and the taste of a traditional, properly cooked and smoked brisket is a thing you will not forget.  I do not  trim my brisket before smoking, I trim when I slice.  I smoke all large cuts fat side up ( thought being the fat bastes the meat ).  I do not use rubs, salt and black pepper or cayenne pepper only.  Add more than you think you need, it's a big hunk of beef and much of it comes off as the fat melts.  I season the meat as the smoker comes up to temp.  I do not add sauce.  I serve it on the side.  I try to let the taste of the meat and smoke shine.  IMHO rubs and sauces can detract from the taste of the meat.  Quality brisket does not need to have the taste hidden.  I do sometimes mop/baste to add a slight flavor change.  Bark belongs on Carolina style pulled pork, not sliced brisket as it CAN be hard and tough on sliced brisket.  I don’t foil until the rest period.  I would say that IF you are going to foil and continue to cook a mop is NOT necessary because you will probably add some sort of Au Jus to the foil , but if you want to mop to add a certain flavor it ain't gonna hurt it.  I don’t do burnt ends ( but they ARE good ).  The conventional method calls for a temp of around 225 but I would run the temp round 300 – 350 ( if you can't reach that temp in your smoker no prob just use 225 and add a little time ).  Pull it off the smoker at 190-195 IT and rest for at least 2 hours wrapped in foil and towels or blanket.  I turn brisket about every 1 1/2 hrs..  Wood SHOULD be mesquite by tradition, but pecan, oak, and hickory are good ( in that order IMHO ). A mix of Pecan , Oak and cherry is good.   Having said all that I must admit ( if lightning doesn’t strike me ) that this is not the ONLY way to achieve a great tasting  brisket.  This is all personal preference based on tradition.  If you LIKE rubs and sauces then by ALL means add them.  MANY threads here to help you with those.  Chef Jimmy J has a good au jus recipe.  Brisket is really pretty easy but the KEY!!!! to brisket is patience, and patience, and more patience;  and no peeking; LEAVE THAT DOOR CLOSED!    Buy a good dual probe therm and use it.  My MAIN advice is to write down everything.  Weight, temp, rub, mop, wood, time, foil/no foil, and anything else you can think of including weather conditions.  Next time you will have options to change whatever.  Find what you and the family like and stick with it.  Sorry for the novel.  Good luck.  Be sure to let us know how it turns out as we are a nosey bunch, and don't forget the Q-view.  Good luck.  Keep Smokin!

Danny

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/145267/hot-and-fast-brisket

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...r-the-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...eption-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule#post_1206230


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## ajsmokes

Thanks for this thread.. was a great read.. I am a fairly new guy to the world of smoking. My first smoke was a brisket with a light coat of salt and pepper. Turned out terrible. Second one I did I changed the temp a little and basted it through out the smoke. Turned out terrible. So I gave up.. lol but I really would like to try another to see how I do.. being from omaha nebraska we don't really have any specific cut we are known for. We have it all.. 
Again thanks for the info


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## bama bbq

I'm from TX. Not sure that matters but I don't have a problem with brisket. I don't buy special meat - just cryovac from Wally World. More than once I've heard "This is the best I've ever had". Here's what I do:

Trim excess fat especially the hard stuff and even some from the seam. 

Sprinkle with very little Black's Rub (Lockhart TX mecca of brisket)

Cook fat side down on a 300-350*F WSM until 170*F internal

Place in disposable pan and cover with foil until a skewer slides thru the meat like a hot knife thru butter

Rest about 30 min, slice about No 2 pencil thick, and serve. 

That's it. Turns out perfect every time. My last packer was 15# untrimmed. It took 7 hrs. Moist and tender.


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## ajsmokes

That pull only a got in that last picture Bama.. I wish I could achieve that..


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## bama bbq

Ajsmokes said:


> That pull only a got in that last picture Bama.. I wish I could achieve that..



You can. It's easy. I told you all I do.


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## ajsmokes

Bama BBQ said:


> You can. It's easy. I told you all I do.


I'm gonna try it for sure..


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## gary s

Aggie94  Thank you for posting, you have taken the first step. My friend Danny who started this thread, was concerned that no one was responding, I told him to hang in there he would get some people asking for help. I thought his idea or this was great.

So lets try to help you to start cranking out the type briskets you will be proud of..

Here are a few post i did on brisket, Take a look and see if there is something in there that might help.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...r-the-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...st-on-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/174019/east-texas-style-brisket-ribs

Then lets address specific steps, meat selection, prep, cook time, wood choice, wrap not wrap, resting ,slicing etc.

Gary


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## bmaddox

I think meat selection is my problem. Due to my inherent cheap nature I always go with the lesser quality brisket because I don't want to pay $8-$10 per pound for the good stuff.


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## bama bbq

bmaddox said:


> I think meat selection is my problem. Due to my inherent cheap nature I always go with the lesser quality brisket because I don't want to pay $8-$10 per pound for the good stuff.


wow! I think I pay about $3.00 /lb at Wally World.


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## bmaddox

Bama BBQ said:


> wow! I think I pay about $3.00 /lb at Wally World.


The cheapest I ever see brisket in my area is $5 per pound and that is for a low quality cut. I guess it depends on the local market.


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## bama bbq

bmaddox said:


> The cheapest I ever see brisket in my area is $5 per pound and that is for a low quality cut. I guess it depends on the local market.



Oops. Fat fingers: should have said $5. Sorry for the confusion.


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## ajsmokes

Bama BBQ said:


> Oops. Fat fingers: should have said $5. Sorry for the confusion.


So Bama ur sayin that I could get the same finished product going with select over choice and save a few bucks. Or choice over prime?


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## ajsmokes

I think meat quality makes a big difference.


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## danbono

Hi All Good thread!!!  I'm with the group that CAN'T get a juicy brisket..Tried about a dozen or so ways, using all the methods/tricks of the trade..My brisket ALWAYS comes out on the dry side, there are tasty and tender, with a good bark.. Tastes good cold the day, but really dry.I will keep trying till I get it right.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Good luck to all with your brisket

Dan


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  For folks having trouble please post your method.  That's why I started the thread.  There just MUST be a common problem.  Maybe we can spot it and take all the "mystery" out of smoking a brisket.  As gary and Bama point out, it is really easy to produce a good brisket.

bmaddox: the quality of meat is not your trouble.  As Bama pointed out he just buys cheap at wally world.  I never bought "high quality" either ( I have to speak in the past tense because I can't buy a packer in England ).  You CAN buy wagyu beef but I think it defeats the whole purpose of "low and slow".

Buy any cut of meat, cook it "low and slow" for the CORRECT PERIOD OF TIME; and more often than not it will turn out tender and moist.  Now the best method to use may not be on the smoker.  Some leaner cuts may do better braising but the resulting product should be good.  Have you seen Bearcarver's prime rib posts?  Looks GREAT and I am sure tastes even better but I can assure you if he continued to smoke that cut he would end up with a dry tough almost tasteless slice of beef.

Could the problem be the smoker being used??  gary s uses a reverse flow.  I think oldschoolbbq uses a reverse flow.  I mostly used a regular horizontal offset but I have done smaller chunks of a packer on an Old Smokey and now on a Weber kettle.  Not sure what Bama uses.  All these are charcoal smokers.  Could the problems arise when using electric or propane??  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   If so, surly we can find a way for these folks to produce good briskets.  Just asking questions.Is there someone out there using electric or gas who produces good brisket?  If so, please post your method.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## ajsmokes

KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  For folks having trouble please post your method.  That's why I started the thread.  There just MUST be a common problem.  Maybe we can spot it and take all the "mystery" out of smoking a brisket.  As gary and Bama point out, it is really easy to produce a good brisket.
> 
> bmaddox: the quality of meat is not your trouble.  As Bama pointed out he just buys cheap at wally world.  I never bought "high quality" either ( I have to speak in the past tense because I can't buy a packer in England ).  You CAN buy wagyu beef but I think it defeats the whole purpose of "low and slow".
> 
> Buy any cut of meat, cook it "low and slow" for the CORRECT PERIOD OF TIME; and more often than not it will turn out tender and moist.  Now the best method to use may not be on the smoker.  Some leaner cuts may do better braising but the resulting product should be good.  Have you seen Bearcarver's prime rib posts?  Looks GREAT and I am sure tastes even better but I can assure you if he continued to smoke that cut he would end up with a dry tough almost tasteless slice of beef.
> 
> Could the problem be the smoker being used??  gary s uses a reverse flow.  I think oldschoolbbq uses a reverse flow.  I mostly used a regular horizontal offset but I have done smaller chunks of a packer on an Old Smokey and now on a Weber kettle.  Not sure what Bama uses.  All these are charcoal smokers.  Could the problems arise when using electric or propane??
> 
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> 
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> If so, surly we can find a way for these folks to produce good briskets.  Just asking questions.Is there someone out there using electric or gas who produces good brisket?  If so, please post your method.  Keep Smokin!
> Danny


I use an electric.. it took some getting use to in order to produce good pulled pork. But I can't get a good brisket. But still feel that buying prime over select makes a big difference no matter what cut of meat it is..


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## bama bbq

Ajsmokes said:


> So Bama ur sayin that I could get the same finished product going with select over choice and save a few bucks. Or choice over prime?




Yes sir.  I actually prefer a whole, untrimmed USDA Select or ungraded packer brisket for cooking in the 300(s).

Higher quality should be cooked lower/slower IMHO. But I believe the quality is not worth the price when you can cook a Select to be outstanding.


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## ajsmokes

Bama BBQ said:


> I actually prefer select for cooking in the 300(s).


See now I can't cook that high.. so I'm curious if cooking low and slow in an electric smoker would be better done with a higher or lower grade meat.. that's all I'm asking.


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  I gotta agree with Bama here.  Select will give you good results.  IN FACT; when talking BRISKET,  select usually has more fat content which I feel helps keep a brisket moist.  Just my opinions.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## kc5tpy

Hello AJ.  gary s smokes his brisket at 225.

Danny


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## ajsmokes

KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  I gotta agree with Bama here.  Select will give you good results.  IN FACT; when talking BRISKET, select usually has more fat content which I feel helps keep a brisket moist.  Just my opinions.  Keep Smokin!
> Danny






KC5TPY said:


> Hello AJ.  gary s smokes his brisket at 225.
> Danny



Thanks. That's all I was wanting to know.. if I can save me some money by going with select.. then that's what I'll do.


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## gary s

Danny, I do use a RF now but have cooked hundreds of briskets on My ECB,   You DON'T have to have a high dollar smoker to turn out great brisket.

Lets go through some basic steps;

First   GET TO KNOW YOUR SMOKER I don't care if you have a $69 ECB or a $20,000 monster you can turn out good and bad briskets on both, the key is getting comfortable with what ever you are using. Knowing its characteristics when to add fuel, how well it hold temps in varying weather conditions.

Temp gauge,;  Check your temp gauge, make sure it id reading correctly..

Next, lets select a brisket; I usually buy my briskets at Sam's or Super One here in Tyler (Mostly Sam's)  Try to buy Choice but have bought Select when the choice prices were out of sight. I buy Whole packers with a fat cap, Try to find one with good marbling, I pick up the brisket and do a bend test, I like it to be somewhat bendable and ply-able  Too thick a fat cap cap and and it doesn't want to bend, too little and it's floppy, You are looking for on in the middle.

OK now that you found the perfect brisket lets get it ready to smoke; Again this is how I do it, Not saying it is the right way or only way, Just seems to work for me. I don't start prepping mine until right before I am going to put it on. I go fire up my smoker, then pull the brisket out of the fridge, take it out of the cryovac, rinse it, pat it dry and get ready to start doing a little trimming.

I try to trim my fat cap down to about a 1/4 "  all over, trim any thing that looks like it shouldn't be there, loose pieces, etc

Now when I'm satisfied I season;

Again the is personal preference, I* have tried many different thing over my 40 plus years of smoking but what I settled on is simple. My family and I like to taste the wonderful brisket, and not a lot of other stuff, I see these guys on TV, injecting, marinating and using all kinds of stuff on their briskets, it's personal choice and taste.

I give it a very light rub down with EVOO then Salt and Pepper, (Heavier on the Pepper for me) That's it. then on the smoker.

When my smoker has reached 225 º I put my brisket on, Fat side up (Just the way I always done it) close the lid and let her go for about 6 hours maintaining my 225 º

Wood choice; this is your preference, brisket handles stronger woods well, Hickory, Oak and Pecan are my favorites. I add a split every so often to maintain my smoke and heat also will add charcoal that has been lit in my chimney and allowed to burn for a while..

After about 6 hours I open up my smoker, pull out my brisket and wrap it in butcher paper, sometimes I'll give it a spritz of apple juice or apple juice and apple cider vinegar 50/50  

(Note:) you can also spritz a few times during that first 6 hours.

I return the brisket back to the smoker till done usually about another 6 plus hours. ( I have cooked so many briskets I can tell by looks and feel when they are ready. This is not something i learned over night this if from hundreds of briskets. But the temp you are looking for is around 200 º  Pull it wrap it in foil and a couple old towels and hold it in a dry cooler for a couple hours. This does a couple of things allows the juices to re-distribute and the meat temp will climb a few more degrees. 

Slicing; when you are ready to slice *Be Sure and slice across the Grain  *when you get down to where the point and flat are attached pay attention the meat grain changes direction.

After slicing:  This is the most important step, Fix you a big plate full and enjoy,

Gary


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## bmaddox

Here is my method (that isn't really working). 

I use a 30" MES so I buy just the flat as a whole packer won't fit. I smoke it at 225 for 4 hours then place it in a foil pan uncovered until it reaches 195 IT. Then I check it with a toothpick until it is tender. My problem is that it gets tender but it is dry (and probably could be more tender). I thought that pan smoking it would help keep it moist but it doesn't seem to.

I am going to try Gary's method next and see how it goes. I am also going to try and find a whole packer and cut it into the point and flat to see which works better for me.


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## gary s

bmaddox said:


> Here is my method (that isn't really working).
> 
> I use a 30" MES so I buy just the flat as a whole packer won't fit. I smoke it at 225 for 4 hours then place it in a foil pan uncovered until it reaches 195 IT. Then I check it with a toothpick until it is tender. My problem is that it gets tender but it is dry (and probably could be more tender). I thought that pan smoking it would help keep it moist but it doesn't seem to.
> 
> I am going to try Gary's method next and see how it goes. I am also going to try and find a whole packer and cut it into the point and flat to see which works better for me.


Do the flats you buy have a fat cap?

gary


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## bmaddox

gary s said:


> Do the flats you buy have a fat cap?
> 
> gary


Yes but it is pretty thin (I wouldn't really even call it a cap as there are usually spots where the meat is exposed). The brisket selection in my area is terrible. Most stores only ever have 2 at a time to choose from.


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## kc5tpy

Hello gary.  I had forgotten that you too only use S&P.  I smoke mine a little hotter like Bama but the basic method is the same.

Hello bmaddox: As I stated in my method I think flat only can get too dry.  I would buy the packer and just cut in half.  The point usually has more fat and can help "baste" the flat.  As gary said I smoke fat side up also BUT! I do turn mine from time to time.  Especially using an offset there is more heat at the firebox end.  I move a brisket left and right on the smoker. I rotate it 180 degrees and swap it end for end.

Danny


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## frosty

Bark Vs. No Bark.  I actually like more bark on pulled pork instead of brisket.  But it depends on who is coming, and most folks just appreciate being invited.

As for method, like Gary and Bama, no rocket science needed.  I've heard many say that brisket is difficult, but that has not been my case.

I've used packer brisket, basic salt and pepper rub, very little trimming of fat, and then leave the lid closed (If you're looking, you're not cooking).  At a steady 225 to 250 degrees F until internal temperature of 200ish degrees F.

Sure, I can wrap it if need be, but generally I am NOT in any hurry, so I just spritz it a little as time goes by.  Generally I don't wrap probably more than 50% of the time.

Remove from smoker @ 200ish, and let rest for two to four hours covered in a cooler. This was really probably a key component.  Slicing a hot brisket, will result in a higher incident of dry,falling apart product.

My results have been remarkably consistent and delicious (per family and friends eating me out of house and home).

  I found that MY impatience and fiddling with dampers, and gadgets was more often at the root of my  problem.

Generally, I get an idea of when we will eat, and then back the clock up based upon the cook times and figure out what is needed.  If it takes a little longer folks just have to sit around and socialize. They know that dinner will still be great and they will leave smiling.

Once I developed more patience my results improved.  It was mostly reading what others did to achieve success that ultimately helped me improve.  For that I am thankful to SMF and its members.

Good luck to you all!!!


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## gary s

Hey B  the briskets may be part of the problem. See if you can get some info on them,   A too lean brisket will come out dry you need some fat and marbling to keep it moist and juicy.

Here is a good example;   A Pork Loin vs A Pork Butt, a loin is very very lean and will dry out pretty quick is cooked to long, on the other hand a butt has a fat cap and fat running all through it You would really have to cook it a very long time to dry it out.

Just remember Fat and marbling = moist and juicy

gary


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  So we all are smoking BASICALLY the same so why are some folks having trouble?  THAT is why I started this thread.  Can we figure out why some folks are having problems?  I was hoping the folks with problems might post their method so we might see where they are going wrong.  bmaddox says he uses only flats; my opinion for what it's worth was given above.  I guess if we can't see the problem we can't fix it.

Danny


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## bruno994

I have a lot to add to this discussion being from Texas, not to mention being an award winning brisket cook, but I'm going to take it one step at a time, to hopefully continue this thread and help as many struggling brisket cooks as possible.  9 times out of 10, if a cook has failed with brisket, it's because they didn't cook it long enough, but there are other factors at play too.

Several great points have already been made so far about meat quality, smoking temps, smokers, etc., hopefully I can just add to those along the way.

Let's start at the supermarket.... 

First of all, yes, Select grade briskets can be cooked to be both tender and juicy, but the better the quality of meat you start with, the better your chances are at a great result.  First, you should know that briskets aren't individually graded, the actual carcass is graded at the rib eye section thus all the cuts that come off said carcass are graded the same, here is a good read for you on beef grading process thanks to our boys here at Texas A&M (my daughter is headed there in the Fall, and so are my bank accounts!)...

http://meat.tamu.edu/beefgrading/

So it is very possible to buy a Select grade brisket that has the characteristics of a Choice, or even a Prime.  I look for flexible toe end (or flat section), I also look for internal marbling, not the fat stuck to the outside or the fat cap, but striations of fat running through the grains of meat in the flat section.  The higher the content of internal marbling, the better the chance at a super moist end product.  This is what makes the point end of a brisket almost a delicacy due to the high fat content.  If you have yet to purchase a Prime grade brisket, please do before you knock the difference between Select, Choice and Prime.  The texture, moisture and mouth feel are just night and day.  Now that does not mean that you won't end up with a Prime that is no better than a Select, simply due to the grading process, but in my experience, the Primes have been well worth the money.  Fat cap has little to do with the end product and how juicy it turns out, the following pic is how I trim up a brisket before a competition...













trimmedbrisket.jpg



__ bruno994
__ Mar 13, 2015






Very little fat left other than the bottom side.  I want as much meat surface to be hit with my rub and smoke as possible.  Basically I do what the supermarket calls a super trim, they just get to charge you more per pound for their effort.  Another tip is to wet age your briskets for approximately 28 days, preferably from the kill date, but around here I usually can't determine the kill date, so I just do it from the date of purchase.  Stick it in it's original packaging in an extra fridge or the back of your daily one and leave it untouched for 28 days, then either cook it that following weekend or store it in the freezer until you are ready to cook it.


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## bruno994

Brisket in the above pic was an aged Choice.  Here is what a typical Select will look like (this one is completely separated, point on the left, flat on the right)...













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__ bruno994
__ Mar 13, 2015






Not much in the way of internal marbling...here is a pic of a Waygu flat section, look closely and you can see much more marbling (not the best pic)...













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__ bruno994
__ Mar 13, 2015


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## ajsmokes

bruno994 said:


> I have a lot to add to this discussion being from Texas, not to mention being an award winning brisket cook, but I'm going to take it one step at a time, to hopefully continue this thread and help as many struggling brisket cooks as possible.  9 times out of 10, if a cook has failed with brisket, it's because they didn't cook it long enough, but there are other factors at play too.
> Several great points have already been made so far about meat quality, smoking temps, smokers, etc., hopefully I can just add to those along the way.
> Let's start at the supermarket....
> First of all, yes, Select grade briskets can be cooked to be both tender and juicy, but the better the quality of meat you start with, the better your chances are at a great result.  First, you should know that briskets aren't individually graded, the actual carcass is graded at the rib eye section thus all the cuts that come off said carcass are graded the same, here is a good read for you on beef grading process thanks to our boys here at Texas A&M (my daughter is headed there in the Fall, and so are my bank accounts!)...
> http://meat.tamu.edu/beefgrading/
> So it is very possible to buy a Select grade brisket that has the characteristics of a Choice, or even a Prime.  I look for flexible toe end (or flat section), I also look for internal marbling, not the fat stuck to the outside or the fat cap, but striations of fat running through the grains of meat in the flat section.  The higher the content of internal marbling, the better the chance at a super moist end product.  This is what makes the point end of a brisket almost a delicacy due to the high fat content.  If you have yet to purchase a Prime grade brisket, please do before you knock the difference between Select, Choice and Prime.  The texture, moisture and mouth feel are just night and day.  Now that does not mean that you won't end up with a Prime that is no better than a Select, simply due to the grading process, but in my experience, the Primes have been well worth the money.  Fat cap has little to do with the end product and how juicy it turns out, the following pic is how I trim up a brisket before a competition...
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> Very little fat left other than the bottom side.  I want as much meat surface to be hit with my rub and smoke as possible.  Basically I do what the supermarket calls a super trim, they just get to charge you more per pound for their effort.  Another tip is to wet age your briskets for approximately 28 days, preferably from the kill date, but around here I usually can't determine the kill date, so I just do it from the date of purchase.  Stick it in it's original packaging in an extra fridge or the back of your daily one and leave it untouched for 28 days, then either cook it that following weekend or store it in the freezer until you are ready to cook it.


Thank you so much.. I am a firm believer that no matter the cut of beef you can't get the same quality cook on a select as you can prime. Some say you can..


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## bruno994

_*Thank you so much.. I am a firm believer that no matter the cut of beef you can't get the same quality cook on a select as you can prime. Some say you can..*_

You can get them tender, you can keep them moist, but the mouth feel, the melt in your mouth tenderness, only gets better and more consistent as you move up the quality of graded meats.  I do find that the higher the grade of brisket I cook, the faster I reach toothpick tenderness.  Selects and Choice will typically take 8 plus hours at 250, but a Prime will be finished in 7 to 7 1/2 hours, not a tremendous difference, but it is if you are not used to checking for doneness that early.  On a side note, I personally feel Angus or Black Angus is way overrated.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ajsmokes:  YES!.  You are ABSOLUTELY correct.  The better quality of meat you start with the better the final product.  BUT!  Each of us have stated that you can get a tender moist brisket using a select brisket.  That seems to be something you have not been able to achieve according to what you stated earlier.  If you can smoke a tender, moist select brisket just think how great it will be using a prime brisket!  First we need to get you to the tender, moist select brisket stage.  Please post your method.

The purpose of the thread was to try to figure out why so many folks have trouble with brisket.  Not who has the best method.  No offence meant to anyone.  I am not talking meat quality ( we seem to all agree that you can take a cr** brisket and turn out a tender, moist product ).  Bark versus no bark versus MORE bark.  Rubs or no rubs.  And not a competition quality brisket.  Just being able to produce a tender moist brisket ( unless we find a common factor in the failures ).  So far I have learned 2 things:  1.  The successful folks all follow the same BASIC method.  AND.  2.  Seems most of the successes are achieved using charcoal/wood as a heat source.  I had hoped the folks with trouble would post their methods and smoker type so that we might find a common problem.  SOMETHING MUST be different between the folks that can and the folks that can't.  It isn't rocket science nor does it involve cures.  SO!  AGAIN I ask; is it possible that folks having problems are using gas or electric?  I fail to see why that would matter but??  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





    Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gary s

Choice or Waygu would be great if the price is cheat enough but the last one I got was select because they had them on sale, The one I got had good marbling and fat cap.,

Was really moist, juicy and tender

Gary


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## kc5tpy

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There you go Ajsmokes.  A brisket "joint" bought from an English supermarket and the smoker it was cooked on.  NO fat cap and ZERO marbling.  If that is not a cr** piece of brisket I'll eat my hat!  Also as you can see that's no high dollar smoker being used ( although they are a great little smoker; for certain foods ) I don't have an after picture but it was not tough and not dry.


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## gary s

Looks Good

Gary


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## dukeburger

I love this thread. That is all.


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## heubrewer

From a relatively newbie that has done briskets that have all come out tender and juicy.

I only buy full packers despite smoking in an MES 30.  I simply cut it in half and have a flat half and a point half (I do not separate the point from the flat, the point half still has some flat to it).  The packers I get (Costco) are untrimmed so you can trim as much or as little as you want

I am fortunate that the Costco by me only sells USDA Prime briskets, so I personally can't say if the cut of meat matters.

I cook without distirubing the brisket until it reaches 190F.  Then I test for doneness using the toothpick test.

Usually smoke around 235 using fruit wood of some sort.


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## WaterinHoleBrew

Awesome thread Danny... Thanks for starting it !  

I'll jump in here, I've had awesome (packers) & fair (flat only) briskets I'd say... Nothing bad !  The awesome has been the packers with a nice fat cap on them.... The fair was just a flat that I tried, no fat cap or anything & it didn't really turn out as well as I'd have liked it to... However, I do admit that smoke was more of an experiment more than anything !  I'll explain briefly what I mean... 

I have done a bunch of packer briskets & I've had them turn out real nice... Tender & juicy !  With a packer, I personally will NOT trim any of the fat cap & rub down the brisky with some EVOO or peanut oil...  Sprinkle with SPOG & smoke with hickory &/or apple at 225-250* with the fat cap up !  I let it ride with the fat cap up til done... Usually done round 198-205* IT (but ultimately defined by the probe or toothpick test for tenderness) IMHO, fat cap up helps to render the fat or self baste the brisket !   

The flat I smoked was done exactly as the packers I've smoked... But, there was a definite difference between just the flat & the packer IMO !  The flat had been trimmed upon purchase with no fat cap & didn't turn out as tender & juicy !  

Which leads me back to my comment to start this post... The differences between packer & flat !  

This pic is one example of the brisky I smoke !  

However, I'am always open to new ideas & procedures on brisky smokin....  This has just been the way I've personally done brisky & it's turned out great...  














image.jpg



__ WaterinHoleBrew
__ Mar 13, 2015






But again, I'm always open to other ways or methods.... That's why I like this forum so much, great folks using TBS & each has their own way of smokin !


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## ajsmokes

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> There you go Ajsmokes.  A brisket "joint" bought from an English supermarket and the smoker it was cooked on.  NO fat cap and ZERO marbling.  If that is not a cr** piece of brisket I'll eat my hat!  Also as you can see that's no high dollar smoker being used ( although they are a great little smoker; for certain foods ) I don't have an after picture but it was not tough and not dry.


I'm not debating the fact that you can take cheap meat and make it tender and moist. My debate is the quality.. 
I use an electric smoker. I rub it in salt pepper and garlic and let it sit for 24 hours before smoking.. I smoke it at 230 till 195 I.T.  let rest in cooler for at least an hour. Comes out dry...


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## demosthenes9

Ajsmokes said:


> I'm not debating the fact that you can take cheap meat and make it tender and moist. My debate is the quality..
> I use an electric smoker. I rub it in salt pepper and garlic and let it sit for 24 hours before smoking.. I smoke it at 230 till 195 I.T. let rest in cooler for at least an hour. Comes out dry...


If you are pulling at 195 and your brisket comes out dry, then you probably aren't cooking it long enough.  Use the poke/probe test.   Take a probe and poke the brisket at various spots on the thickest part of the flat.  When the probe goes in and out with no resistance, like a knife through warm butter, the brisket is ready.   The "juiciness" of a brisket comes from the breaking down of the connective tissues between the muscle fibers.  This breakdown is a function of temperature over time, meaning that it takes more time at lower temps, or less time at higher temps.


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## gary s

Looks good.  did the brisket have a fat cap ?


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Aj, I realise you are not trying to debate ANYTHING.  All is good.  I am just sort of frustrated.  I read your method and except ( as mentioned above ) for maybe the "toothpick test"; looks good to me so why are you and others having trouble with brisket?  That's what I was trying to find.  I wish more folks who have trouble with brisket would join in.  Maybe we could find a common thread and help everyone make good briskets.  How can person "A" follow "X,Y,Z" and turn out a good brisket and person "B" follows the same "X,Y,Z"  and turns out a bad brisket.  It's just crazy.  Makes no sense.  Maybe folks are not remembering to sacrifice a live wildebeest to the Great Smoking Gods before smoking a brisket.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






    Keep Smoking!

Danny


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## mattjohnson19

I've only been smoking for about a year, but I've done probably 10 briskets and haven't been disappointed with any of them. I'm smoking another one tomorrow, and that is what lead me to this thread. I've never done a full brisket, or even a point. I always just do flats. I'm a firm believer that simpler is better. I just rub with a SPOG and use charcoal with mesquite wood for smoke. I use a home made Mini UDS. I run my smoker at about 275 and cook the brisket until 190 IT. I then close all the vents on my smoker to cool it down and wrap the brisket in foil. I let it rest in the cooling smoker for an hour before cutting and serving.

All I can recommend to the people having troubles is to keep fine tuning your method and try different things until you get it the way you like it.


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## gary s

That was Danny's intent, for people to post their problems so they can some help   Great Idea

Gary


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## jeepdiver

The biggest issue I see in people who have issues with brisket is patience and checking doneness with a probe test.  I have certainly got tired of waiting and pulled briskets at temps between 190-200 and have had them be tough and dry.  I have also had brisket that felt that way at those temps that I left until the felt right when poked that went to 215.

I have also had some that probed right at 185 and wete great.  You can't just do time and temp


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## aggie94

Thanks Danny and Gary for all the good information.  Sorry I haven't been back on to respond to the good questions, blame it on rotating shift work.  Bama those brisket pictures are amazing, that's as tasty a looking brisket of any I've seen!  Danny you asked me to describe my method, I'll make my best attempt, let me know if you need more detail.  I have an inexpensive offset smoker, I believe it is called a Charbroiler.  I get lots of smoke but it leaks out the sides pretty bad, adjusting the inflow on the firebox has little to no effect.  I start with charcoal but then transition to mainly wood from neighbors red and live oak trimmings, from those willing to water them enough to keep them alive.  I believe my main problem is keeping somewhat of an even temperature.  Until recently the only idea of temperature I had was the cheap gauge in the top of the smoker hood and tried to keep it around 250 degrees.  When I added two new gauges (as shown on Franklin's video) on the left and right side of the smoker and down low I found temperature near the fire box could be 350-400 degrees or more, while on the far end it may be 200-225, but temperatures would fluctuate to a large degree.  When temperatures started to fall I would throw more wood on, once they caught the temps would quickly spike before leveling back off.  I've only tried select briskets because that's what was available, and have used both packer and flats and tended to buy the smaller briskets.  I have tried to make some alterations to the smoker such as laying a piece of metal over the opening between the firebox and main chamber to keep the radiant heat from burning meat closer to the fire and put a pan of water in the bottom to help dampen temperature fluctuation a little.  I try to smoke the briskets around an hour a pound, but may not be that long.  After that I would bring them inside and use a meat thermometer to check their temp to see if they were done.  These were the cheap dial thermometers from the grocery store and was never very confident they were even close to accurate so end up going more by look.  Usually by then it was around dinner time so I would try to slice it up and see how it was, sometimes dry but almost always tough and disappointing.  Did not pass the stretch test.  At that point I was unsure if it was tough because under cooked or over cooked.  I've tried less than 10 briskets, but with the current price of packers being $40 to $50 I'm not too eager to experiment.  I usually don't rest them, if I do it is after I've cut some off one end and just wrap the remainder of it and let it rest and cool before putting in the fridge.  If you can narrow done what needs to be worked on I would be very appreciative.

Thanks,

Doug


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## gary s

Sounds like we (you) have discovered part of the problem. Drastic temp changes are a big problem, a little doesn't really hurt but jumping up to 350 to 400  need to install a deflector or buffer plate right at the FB to CC openig  Post some pics of the inside of your smoker so we can be more help fine tuning it

Gary


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## aggie94

Wanting the temperature not to fluctuate and getting it not to fluctuate has been a struggle.  I would like to be able to set it and leave but smoking for me requires near constant supervision.  I'm sure there are better smokers to use but would like to be able to make what I have work.  I've read a number of different modifications you can do to offset smokers to over come some of their problems, guess I need to try some more.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Doug.  GREAT post of your method!  gary s. is being "diplomatic".  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   You are doing some much wrong I'm not sure where to start.  Don't get me wrong.  I AM NOT! laughing AT you.  This is what I suspected.  THANK YOU for posting this!  It's what I have been looking for.  THIS is the stuff I want the experienced folks to help others with.  I want us all making good briskets.  I have always thought the folks having troubles were leaving out details.  Details THEY thought didn't matter.  Briskets CAN ( not always ) be a PITA!  You can't cut corners.

Without repeating; you have some great methods posted in this thread.  gary s is correct ( as he knows ) wild temp swings are not a good thing.  You can smoke at 225 or at 350 but yo-yo up and down is a no-no.  Smaller the brisket the lower temp I would use.  Follow ANY method posted here and you should be fine.  PATIENCE GRASSHOPPER!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   There is the KEY!

That offset can be a "bear with a sore head" to get to grips with.  Brisket will not "usually" forgive mistakes.  Get a good dual probe digital therm and use it.  Keep your smoker probe "about" centred on your brisket.  So IF the smoker temp in that area is getting too high, move it away from the firebox.  Roll it over and swap it end for end if need be about every 1- 1-1/2 hr..  We CAN get you making good brisket!  I have some thoughts on your smoker, I will PM you with as this thread is about brisket and not smokers.  If I can help you in ANY way PLEASE feel free to PM me.  If I don't know the answer I'll rattle cages until I find someone we can both learn from.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gary s

Danny is more straight to the point,   But do post some pictures of the inside of your smoker especially the FB to CC area, got to get you some even temps 

Gary


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## aggie94

Thank Danny and Gary, direct is good, much cheaper than paying for lessons.  Gary will have to work on the pictures, not too up on tech things, will try to get my college daughter to help.  Trying to decide if it is easier to make the necessary modifications to producer better barbecue, or maybe I should just replace it with a better smoker.  Suggestions on what is considered an easier smoker to use?


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## gary s

That's why pics are so helpful, you may need just a couple of mods.   We will get you smoking like a champ then you can decide on a different smoker

Gary


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## aggie94

I found the exact smoker I have in the "smokers and more" section.  It had 23 reviews, most folks seem to have the same problems I have in not able to control temperatures well and leaks lot of smoke. 

 http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/products/char-griller-smokin-pro-charcoal-grill


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  I think my friend gary was trying to find a polite way of saying "Danny is JERK"!!  Thank you gary for being so polite. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   YES! Sometimes I am blunt and to the point but I mean no disrespect.  Just not a "wordsmith".  I just want to cut to the chase and help folks out where I can.  PLEASE excuse me if I may come across as abrupt.  Gary:  It's getting cold here again.  They are talking possible SNOW!!  What tha heck??

That's the smoker  I thought you had.  The mods I sent you in the PM will help a BUNCH!  Easy and cheap to do.  Those cheaper offsets can be a PAIN but simple cheap mods make life much easier.  NEVER gonna be a "set it and forget it" smoker but you can turn out some good food on that smoker.  You know where to find me if I can help.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## aggie94

JeepDriver if I could cook barbecue in my oven by setting the temperature and timer I would.  Its that trying to know if it is done or not that is difficult.  Danny you come across as someone who know what they are doing, and willing to help others.


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## heubrewer

Ajsmokes said:


> See now I can't cook that high.. so I'm curious if cooking low and slow in an electric smoker would be better done with a higher or lower grade meat.. that's all I'm asking.




You do not need to cook that high to cook brisket.  I have a MES 30 and I set it ot 235F,  for the entire cook.  

In reading the posts and taking note when I just cooked mine I offer a few suggestions.  I have only done about 8 briskets in less than one year but I have not had a dry or tough one yet.

1)  First thing I leanred, "guestimate" cooking time by weight, estimate by temperature, finalize using the toothpick test.  Cooking by temp will get you close, you may even nail it but, to be sure you have to finalize by "feel".  For my smokes the best way I can describe the "feel" of the toothpick test is that the toothpick should slide in with NO resistance.  Just yesterday I took the point off at 192F, but the flat had to go up to 202F before I thought it was ready.  Forget the rule that you slice at 190F and pull at 200F each brisket is different.

2) Rest.  Your brisket had a long jouney, 8 or more hrs in 220F + temps, all of this while starting at 40F or so.  It needs to rest, let me type that again it needs to rest.  Slicing right away will lead to a dry brisket.  Yes you want to dig in after hrs and hrs of smelling goodness, but wait.  I would wait at least an hr.  I do not wrap in the smoker, but I do wrap in Al foil after the smoke and place the brisket in the cooler for 2 hrs or more, depending on when I want to serve.

3) Slice the brisket correctly, remember slice against the grain, this way the brisket will be tender and not stringy.

4) Did I mention Rest!  this is so important I will mention it again.  Rest your brisket.

5) Don't peak while cooking, or if you are looking you ain't cooking. 

6) Enjoy, I really don't see the problem with cooking a great brisket, personally while it takes a while I find there is more forgiveness with brisket than say a steak,  You can overcook a steak in a matter of minutes.  Briskets are much more forgiving than that.

Sorry for the long rant.  Hope this helps

Best


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## kapdon

The second paragraph of this thread started with, "shot off my mouth," and I feel I may do the same here. I am not trying to upset anyone but I don't understand how some have problems with an electric smoker. It's like an oven, set it and forget it, put some liquid smoke in the mix and you got, um... Smoked brisket? I have a buddy that almost does this. He puts his brisket in the oven at 350 over night, get up the next day and moves it to his pit to give it a few hours of smoke. He now owns an electric smoker and the only thing that has changed in his method is he doesn't move it to his pit. The brisket doesn't have a strong smoke flavor this way but it has always been tender and juicy.

My method is slightly different from some of the others here as I generally us a lower temp for most of my smoke and then bring it up for that last couple hours. The brisket turns out beautiful.

Wild swings and spikes may have a great effect on the meat but those who are using an electric smoker shouldn't be experiencing this problem, so let's look at some of the basics.

One thing my buddy and i do for sure is test the meat before we buy it. I have trimmed, I have purchased pretrimmed, I have cut, now I leave it as is. I enjoy the flavor that all that extra fat adds to the meat. The only thing we check for when purchasing a brisket is how far it will fold. I grab it by the ends and try to fold it. If it doesn't fold I put it back and test another one.

How are you cutting into it? Are you cutting with the grain or against it? This will make a huge difference in how tender it is.

Are you wrapping it in foil? If you are having a hard time getting the tenderness you like or trying get it to be more juicy, using foil can help. Having it wrap good will hold all the drippings which will cause steam to occur, this acts kind of like a pressure cooker. Leaving it wrapped when you remove it and allow it to rest, it will continue to cook and steam itself for a while. Once it begins to cool it will draw some of those juices back in.

I have never tried injecting or using tenderizers but one might look into it if they absolutely can not achieve the results they are looking for. However, the basics should never be skipped.

I hope something here helps someone out there. Now, could someone open one of these threads for beef ribs? I just can not seem to nail great results trying to smoke them.


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## WaterinHoleBrew

kapdon, start a new thread on beef ribs & we'll help ya out !  Thumbs Up


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## kapdon

Looks like HEUBrewer posted pretty much everything that needed be said while I was trying to type on a phone that died on me lol. And he said it better than I did.

WaterinHoleBrew, I might do that when I give it another go.


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## demosthenes9

I'm going to take a slightly different path here and say that temp swings really aren't all that evil when cooking brisket.    At worst, it will mess with your "timing" of the cook.    I mean, if one person can cook a nice brisket at 225, and another can cook a nice brisket at 325, then it shouldn't matter if your temps swing between the two.    [email protected]!!!!!  I could easily be wrong about this one.  If anyone cares to present arguments as to why this is incorrect, I'd be happy to hear them. 

In my view, the #1 difficulty in cooking a brisket is a tie between 1) Patience and 2), knowing when the brisket is actually done.   This isn't when it hits a certain temp, but rather when it passes the poke/probe test. 

along those lines, brisket is counter-intuitive.  All of us have most likely grilled steaks many times.  One thing we are aware of is that the longer you cook a steak, the dryer it gets.  As you go past 150 degrees, a steak won't magically get juicy all of a sudden.    This isn't the case with brisket.  As you cook it, yes, moisture gets driven out the same way it does with a ribeye or NY strip.  BUT, at higher temps, the connective tissues between the muscle fibers will break down and render out.  This is what makes a brisket moist and tender.   

Here are two examples of a brisket that is undercooked:













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__ Nov 4, 2014


















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__ demosthenes9
__ May 26, 2014






See the grey squiggly lines between the muscle fibers that the arrows are pointing to ?  This is the connective tissues (collagen) that haven't broken down and rendered as of yet.   Both of these slices will be tough and rubbery (the bottom one more so than the top one.   What little bit of moisture there is to be found in both slices comes from the fat cap.

Here are two examples of nicely cooked brisket.













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__ demosthenes9
__ Nov 4, 2014


















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__ demosthenes9
__ Jul 6, 2014






Notice that the grey squiggly lines between the muscle fibers are gone.  Instead, you see separation between the fibers.   The connective tissues have been broken down and have rendered  into liquid.   These pieces will be nice and tender.  They will pull apart with a slight tug.   The moisture you see in the pics isn't from the fat cap, but rather, from the rendered connective tissue.  

With regards to getting the connective tissue to render, I mentioned in an earlier post that it was a function of temperature over time.   It's possible for a brisket to be nice and tender with an IT of 180 degrees.  The big drawback is that it takes a LOT of time to do this.   You can actually finish a brisket at even lower temperatures (say 150 degrees), but it takes even more time.    Again, this is because of the notion of "time at temperature" or "temperature over duration of time".      

In short, for the connective tissue to break down and render, the brisket needs to spend X amount of time at Y temperature.    As Y increases, X decreases.  As Y decreases, X increases.     Of course, something that complicates this is that the IT of a brisket doesn't instantly rise to chamber temp when it goes into a smoker.  Rather, it starts at <40-50 degrees and rises over time.   With a higher chamber temp, the IT temp of the brisket rises faster and the brisket spends more of it's time at higher temps.  This eventually leads to it being ready at a higher IT.  Briskets cooked at a lower chamber temp finish with a lower IT.


----------



## heubrewer

Demo

Very nice post and tutorial


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## bruno994

Demosthenes9, , well said, on point and correct, I couldn't have said it better myself...although on numerous brisket threads over the years on this forum I have stated the very same and will continue to do so.  Why my first post to this thread was to start at meat quality, because this is where the quest for a good brisket begins, at the supermarket, not just solve peoples problems one by one.  Make this a go to thread for folks to search out their answer when it comes to a question about brisket.   99.999999 percent of brisket issues comes from lack of patience, not knowing when to pull a brisket, because they read somewhere that you want to pull it at 195 for slicing, 205 for pulling and so on...pull it when it's done, not when it reaches a certain number.  Cooking temps, smoker style, rub composition, meat quality, wood choice...these all factor in to the finished product, but if you don't cook it long enough, none of those matter, you'll still end up chewing on shoe leather.  By starting out with meat quality, it's just the first step in reaching brisket nirvana, and as I stated earlier, if you have never afforded yourself the luxury of a Prime grade brisket, please do at least once this year, well worth the extra $.  Prime brisket is what has made Franklin BBQ in Austin so popular, there is a reason that he buys them and not just random Selects from Sams, WM or Costco, the end results are just that much better.


----------



## bruno994

The second step in the path to a great brisket is really 3 steps in one...the age old debate to fat cap up, fat cap down, the type of smoker you are using and the cooking temperature you are shooting for.  The second part directly effects the first part of the step...you want to use the fat cap to protect the meats surface from direct heat.  So if your cooking on a drum or other type of smoker / cooker where the heat source is directly below the meat, then fat side down, if your cooking on a larger offset, where you can get the meat far enough away from the direct heat from the firebox, then meat side down may be a better choice.  You should also use the point side of the brisket as a shield from the heat as well, as I cook on a reverse flow offset, I cook fat side down due to the reverse flow plate being directly under the meat, radiating heat upwards during the cook, but I also turn the brisket so that the fattier point end is facing the air flow, reducing the direct contact of air flowing across the surface of the meat.  You should do this as well on a standard direct flow offset, place the brisket with the point end facing the firebox, your choice on fat side up or down, it really comes down to a personal preference on standard offsets as to which way you cook...in actuality, it all comes down to personal preference, no matter if you are cooking on a UDS, a Weber, an offset, cabinet style, electric, it comes down to what you like and what you have.  I do not buy into the theory of fat cap up so that the fat melts down through the meat keeping it juicy..myth, but once again it's a personal preference.  .As far as cook temp, it once again comes down to what you feel comfortable with on your smoker.  If you run a cabinet style smoker (Pitmaker, Backwoods, Stumps) and it likes to settle in at 300, then cook it at 300.  If you run a traditional offset and she will purr along at 225, then cook at 225.  On my reverse flow, 250 is her sweet spot, so that is where I cook at.  I can easily cook at 275 or 300, but not without extra work and wider temp swings, so I get her settled in anywhere between 225 and 255 and rock and roll.  I have developed my times on all my meats based on this cook temp, as should you.


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## kc5tpy

GREAT advice folks.  I reread my method and I see I left out the tenderness checks.  I just said pull at 190-195 as that's about where the IT usually is ( not always ).  BUT I totally agree with the others here.  Brisket is done when brisket is done.  Each can be different.  And! it's done when it's tender.  I think it may be just those sort of mistakes that folks are making when posting brisket questions.  A VERY important omission that makes a TON of difference.

Thanks Bruno and everyone else for your input.  I hope the same.  I hope to make this thread the "go to" for brisket questions.  Maybe if we keep bumping our heads together we can help everyone make good briskets.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## stokinsmokebbq

Quick question just bought a brisket from sams and i asked the butcher for a whole packer and he handed me this ...it says flat and is 8lbs..but was alot bigger then the other flats they handed...question is is this a whole packer and should i treat it as such or just a flat? Thanks













20150327_125222.jpg



__ stokinsmokebbq
__ Mar 27, 2015


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## stokinsmokebbq

20150327_125238.jpg



__ stokinsmokebbq
__ Mar 27, 2015


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## bruno994

Looks like a small packer, but I'm on my phone....no glasses, so the pic is a little small for my old eyes. Lol. Nice looking flat, just a small point.


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## demosthenes9

Looks like a trimmed flat with a little bit of point still on it.


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## bruno994

I agree with Demo, looks trimmed, but with that small of a brisket, the point will typically be pretty small too.  You'll still get a few burnt ends out of it!


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## stokinsmokebbq

Yea thats what i was thinking arite thanks guys ill post some qview sunday when i cook it up


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## alexhortdog95

JUST did a cook on Saturday, and I didn't think the flat came out as tender as I wanted it to be.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/191809/brisket-burnt-ends-and-bacon-bomb

It was slightly rubbery for my liking, and tough to pull apart.  I think I was guilty (on the flat) of being a bit impatient).

The burnt ends, however, were the bomb diggety.  I put them out there longer and they turned out great!

So my question is, when making burnt ends from a whole packer, when separating the flat and point, I should have put both back on, huh?


----------



## bruno994

alexhortdog95 said:


> JUST did a cook on Saturday, and I didn't think the flat came out as tender as I wanted it to be.
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/191809/brisket-burnt-ends-and-bacon-bomb
> 
> It was slightly rubbery for my liking, and tough to pull apart.  I think I was guilty (on the flat) of being a bit impatient).
> 
> The burnt ends, however, were the bomb diggety.  I put them out there longer and they turned out great!
> 
> So my question is, when making burnt ends from a whole packer, when separating the flat and point, I should have put both back on, huh?


Alex...the biggest factor in a successful brisket cook is PATIENCE.  When it's done, it's done.  Once the flat can be probed with a toothpick with little to no resistance, it's done.  Pulling it any earlier than that will lead to the old rubbery slices you speak of.  And yes, burnt ends when done right, are the BOMB!


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## randolph

I gave up on the Brisket long ago....that way it gives me something to look forward too when I'm in a Q diner.  Ribs, Pulled Pork, chicken I nail that, and would never bother to order it at a restaurant, but Brisket, I look forward to every time I want enjoy licking my fingers.


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## demosthenes9

Randolph said:


> I gave up on the Brisket long ago....that way it gives me something to look forward too when I'm in a Q diner.  Ribs, Pulled Pork, chicken I nail that, and would never bother to order it at a restaurant, but Brisket, I look forward to every time I want enjoy licking my fingers.


Why deny yourself the taste of brisket whenever you want ?   The steps to cooking brisket are actually pretty simple and straightforward.

1. At minimum, trim the hard fat from the brisket.  You can be more aggressive if you want, but this is the starting point.

2. Season the brisket.

3. Put brisket in smoker and smoke it.

4. Remove brisket from the smoker when it passes the poke/probe test.  That is, when you can stick the point of a probe through the thickest part of the flat and it goes in and out like a knife through room temp butter.

That's it.  IF you follow those steps, you should end up with a good brisket.   

Details such as what temp to cook at, fat up or fat down, how much fat to trim, what seasonings/rubs to use, wrap or not wrap, foil or butcher paper, yada, yada, yada are the "next level" details that take you from a "good brisket" to a "great brisket".


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## gary s

Randolph said:


> I gave up on the Brisket long ago....that way it gives me something to look forward too when I'm in a Q diner.  Ribs, Pulled Pork, chicken I nail that, and would never bother to order it at a restaurant, but Brisket, I look forward to every time I want enjoy licking my fingers.


The Question is;  Why ?     What went wrong ?   Let us know and I'll bet we can help get you that perfect Brisket

Gary


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## randolph

Frankly I don't remember Gary, it's been quite awhile....maybe it's as simple as smoking a Brisket on a Big Green Egg isn't it's forte, although I don't have an issue smoking other cuts/types of meat in it.  A full sized brisket is just too big, so maybe it's that the smaller cut of meat is the issue.

It's not a bad thing to know your limitations....


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## gary s

You can always smoke a whole brisket, cut it in half or thirds and freeze them for later on. I always freeze me a chunk.

Gary


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## kc5tpy

Hello Randolph.  This is why I started this thread.  Many of us smoke a brisket with NO problems at all.  BUT!  There are also as many who have tried and tried with disappointing results.  If you read through the posts here you will see we have the basic same method.  I thought maybe it was a particular type of smoker but I have now learned that folks are making good brisket using a variety of different smokers.  So that is not it.  Also the quality of beef they are buying.  But folks are buying brisket from many different places.  I have come to believe that folks having trouble are not posting EVERYTHING they are doing.  They are leaving out something they think is unimportant when they post their method.  Some "minor" little detail.  I also think PATIENCE pays a role.  Maybe it's a "minor" detail we are leaving out of our advice.  Something we just take for granted you know.  You have received GREAT advice from folks.  I wish someone would smoke a brisket that doesn't turn out well and post a "novel" of step by step including grams of rub, grams of salt, sauce, foiled or no foil etc., etc..  Maybe just try a brisket with only salt and pepper.  Don't worry about bark.  I am in the no bark school for brisket anyway.  Just make ONE tender and juicy brisket.  Start with that and "tweek" it.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## ajsmokes

I for a long time had issues smoking a good brisket.. so I decided to try another one a couple weeks ago.. I went to my local butcher and got a good choice 11lbs packer. Brought it home took it out of the package rinsed it off and gave it a lite cover of EVOO then a dusting of Salt Pepper Onion and Garlic. Wrapped it in cling wrap in the fridge over night. Next morning went into the MES 30 diagonally of course.. smoked in 235 heat with a mixture of pecan cherry and hickory till it reached an IT of 165 then separated the point from the flat and back in the smoker till the flat was 203 and passed the poke test. Then into a pan with some of the juices I was able to save and a stick of butter covered and into a cooler for two hours.. cut into the flat against the grain and had some of the best brisket I have ever had..













20150426_073001.jpg



__ ajsmokes
__ May 17, 2015
__ 1





Start













20150426_195958.jpg



__ ajsmokes
__ May 17, 2015





Finish...


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## randolph

Ok, success!!  I figured out the problem, I'm a Dumb ASS!!

I really didn't do any research just went at it and assumed it would just fall in place.

From the advice here a the Big green egg recipe's it made it pretty easy, even with a 5# flat.  

First off I didn't cook it long enough....maybe took it to 170 the preceding times, took it to 205 this time....in the foil after it hit 165.

Added a little apple juice.

Wish I could find some Oak, used a mix of Apple and Hickory, worked well.

THnaks for all the help, it's Ribs today!!


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## kc5tpy

HEY GREAT NEWS!  It's a hunk of meat, it ain't rocket science..  It really isn't that hard to do..  Glad you had a successful smoke!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## WaterinHoleBrew

This has been an awesome thread & will continue to be one !  Brisky can be tricky til ya know the ins & outs !  Great info for folks so maybe they won't be so intimidated by brisket !  All the info on this thread is way cool & thanks to Danny for starting it !    Thumbs Up

Justin


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## bmaddox

gary s said:


> You can always smoke a whole brisket, cut it in half or thirds and freeze them for later on. I always freeze me a chunk.
> 
> Gary


Yep this is what I have been doing recently. That way when I get busy I can reheat a 1lb chunk for dinner.


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## tumbleweed1

Ok, I'm relatively new to smoking & have only done pork products so far (baby backs a few times & last Sunday, a great pork butt). Actually, I believe this is my first venture here in the "Beef" section. I'm interested in doing a brisket & have a couple of questions....

1)- When I was reading up before doing a pork butt, it seemed like most folks were concerned with the 1.5-2 hour/per pound recommended cooking times. Why do I not see that so much with brisket? Is it because there is a lot of variation depending on select, choice or prime? Or are there other reasons?

2)- When I did ribs the first couple of times, I was at about 230 degrees with my smoker for 5-6 hours. For the pork butt, I adhered to the newer, "hot & fast" method & went to my smoker's max (275), but would have liked to be more like 300. As it was, it took about 10 hours to do a 7 pound butt. Is there a "hot & fast" method for BRISKET that works as well? I have to say, that pork butt definitely did NOT lack any moisture (and I did not wrap).

3)- Again- newbie here using an MES 30. Point or flat?

I love to eat brisket in a good BBQ joint, but have been a little intimidated at the thought of doing one. I felt the same way about the pork I've done so far & with all the expert advice I've received on these boards everything has turned out very nice so far. 

Thanks,

TW


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## demosthenes9

Tumbleweed1 said:


> Ok, I'm relatively new to smoking & have only done pork products so far (baby backs a few times & last Sunday, a great pork butt). Actually, I believe this is my first venture here in the "Beef" section. I'm interested in doing a brisket & have a couple of questions....
> 
> 1)- When I was reading up before doing a pork butt, it seemed like most folks were concerned with the 1.5-2 hour/per pound recommended cooking times. Why do I not see that so much with brisket? Is it because there is a lot of variation depending on select, choice or prime? Or are there other reasons?
> 
> 2)- When I did ribs the first couple of times, I was at about 230 degrees with my smoker for 5-6 hours. For the pork butt, I adhered to the newer, "hot & fast" method & went to my smoker's max (275), but would have liked to be more like 300. As it was, it took about 10 hours to do a 7 pound butt. Is there a "hot & fast" method for BRISKET that works as well? I have to say, that pork butt definitely did NOT lack any moisture (and I did not wrap).
> 
> 3)- Again- newbie here using an MES 30. Point or flat?
> 
> I love to eat brisket in a good BBQ joint, but have been a little intimidated at the thought of doing one. I felt the same way about the pork I've done so far & with all the expert advice I've received on these boards everything has turned out very nice so far.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> TW


Great questions Tumbleweed.    WRT "X hrs per pound", the truth of the matter is that cook time is determined by the thickness of a piece of meat, not by it's weight.  That said, with whole cuts like a Butt, the thickness increases proportionally as the weight increases.   Because of this, "X mins per pound" is a fairly accurate guide.  Now, with that said, if you find a split butt in the butcher case, or if you just cut a butt in 1/2, it will definitely throw the timing off as the weight to size ratio has been altered.

With briskets, IF you are talking about full packers,  "X mins per pound" also works as a general guide.   But, once you get into chunks of brisket, the size to weight ratio has changed again and the timings will be off.   Some brisket flats might be long wide and thin while others might be shorter, narrower but fatter.

Easiest way to picture this is to consider a 1/4lb hot dog.   Would it cook any faster if you cut 1/3 the length off the end of it ?  Nope.   Cook time would be the same as the thickness hasn't changed. 

Or you could look at a nice big sirloin steak.













topsirloinsteak2.jpg



__ demosthenes9
__ May 19, 2015






Let's say that this is a 3lb sirloin.   Would it cook any faster if you sliced a 1 1/2 lb chunk off the end ?   Nope.   Even though it's 1/2 the weight, it will take the same amount of time to cook as the thickness hasn't changed.


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## bruno994

Tumbleweed, briskets can be cooked successfully at higher temps (hot and fast) as well.  I have cooked them anywhere from 225 to 350, with success at all temps.  The hotter you cook a brisket, the faster it will reach toothpick tender, but it will also finish at a higher IT as well.  When cooking at home or for catering jobs, I'll get 4 hours smoke on my meat in a 250 degree pit, then wrap it up and finish it in a 350 degree oven.  Works like a champ everytime.


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## tumbleweed1

Demosthenes9 said:


> Great questions Tumbleweed.    WRT "X hrs per pound", the truth of the matter is that cook time is determined by the thickness of a piece of meat, not by it's weight.  That said, with whole cuts like a Butt, the thickness increases proportionally as the weight increases.   Because of this, "X mins per pound" is a fairly accurate guide.  Now, with that said, if you find a split butt in the butcher case, or if you just cut a butt in 1/2, it will definitely throw the timing off as the weight to size ratio has been altered.
> 
> With briskets, IF you are talking about full packers,  "X mins per pound" also works as a general guide.   But, once you get into chunks of brisket, the size to weight ratio has changed again and the timings will be off.   Some brisket flats might be long wide and thin while others might be shorter, narrower but fatter.
> 
> Easiest way to picture this is to consider a 1/4lb hot dog.   Would it cook any faster if you cut 1/3 the length off the end of it ?  Nope.   Cook time would be the same as the thickness hasn't changed.
> 
> Or you could look at a nice big sirloin steak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topsirloinsteak2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ demosthenes9
> __ May 19, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's say that this is a 3lb sirloin.   Would it cook any faster if you sliced a 1 1/2 lb chunk off the end ?   Nope.   Even though it's 1/2 the weight, it will take the same amount of time to cook as the thickness hasn't changed.


Thank you. That all makes a lot of sense. I just never saw much of it regarding brisket. Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention, as I have had a pork obsession pretty much since I bought this MES30!


bruno994 said:


> Tumbleweed, briskets can be cooked successfully at higher temps (hot and fast) as well.  I have cooked them anywhere from 225 to 350, with success at all temps.  The hotter you cook a brisket, the faster it will reach toothpick tender, but it will also finish at a higher IT as well.  When cooking at home or for catering jobs, I'll get 4 hours smoke on my meat in a 250 degree pit, then wrap it up and finish it in a 350 degree oven.  Works like a champ everytime.


Thank you, Bruno. Very useful info for this "hot & fast" pupil. I just don't want to sacrifice the meat. With pork I it was still very juicy & tender.


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## kc5tpy

Bruno, are you a brother from another mother??  garyS the same and oldschoolbbq..  Do all us Texas boys do brisket the same??

  Spot on advice tumbleweed.  Bruno has you covered!  If you read this thread you almost can't produce a bad brisket.  If you have a problem PLEASE come back to this thread and tell us what happened.  I want to put this thing to bed.  No reason everyone can't cook a good brisket.  Good luck.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## norcalsmokin

I will make my comment quick.
I start with a prime cut because i do believe that quality of meat does matter, it just seems to cook and cooperate better.

Trim the fat but leave some on.

I DO NOT marinate or Inject because i feel it just makes it mushy and takes away from the natural favour that makes this meat so delicious.

I do apply my own dry rub (I have 4 that I have played with and it depends what I am in the mood for at the time) it doesnt really matter which you use because every one has there own taste and your going to have find what you like most. 

I let the dry rub soak and chill in a seran wrap for 10-12 hours or whats best overnight. Sometimes this is hard because mama doesnt like giving up room in the fridge but i do believe this helps to seal the rub to the meat.

When ready to cook, I pull my meat out at let it return to room temp and at this time i prep my smoker which is a 22.5 WSM and usually once i get it ready at 235-245° the meat is ready. 

I place the meat fat side down for 2 hours and baste that baby with Hickory and Mesquite.  Quickly I flip it to fat side up for 2 hours and baste with more smoke. Then i return to fat side down and leave it till internal temp reaches 165°.  

With help at this point I quickly as fast as i can place the meat in a foil container with cover and return it to the grill until it hits 195°- 205°+ depending on my crowd. Pull out at let it rest for 30 min still in covered container.  Then pull out and serve.  I have never had a bad brisket and everyone says its absolutely delicious.  

I am always looking for ways to improve and practice, practice, practice.  Ultimately you will find that one way that just comes out devine and to your love.  Only advice i have is to never stop and even the masters never stop learning! (Im not saying im a master just repeating what a master said lol)

 KEEP SMOKING!!


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## aggie94

Haven't been online in quite awhile but glad to see this thread is still around.  Thanks Danny for starting it.  My last 2 briskets have been successful, which seems like a miracle!  Yes I'm still using the leaky old smoker but have made 3 changes to how I do things so I believe these are making the difference.  First is having a good/accurate meat thermometer, second is wrapping in foil after 4 hrs, and 3rd resting the brisket after smoking.  Brisket is turning out much more forgiving that I expected IF it is cooked to a good internal temperature.  Getting a Thermopop has made a huge difference, for $20 it has been the best bbq buy I've made.  I was not doing a good job looking at the brisket and guessing if it was done and the cheap thermometers I had were useless.  I'm cooking these to atleast 200 degrees before taking it off the smoker and then I'm resting it for 2 hours in a ice chest.  My last brisket was a 11 lb packer cut, I trimmed the fat and cut it in half.  I smoked it for 7 hrs and rested it for 2 hrs and it was wonderful!  Easily passes the pull test, and was juicy since the foil kept the moisture in.  I really thought the resting was a waste of time, but it seems to help tenderize.  I may end up getting a Weber Smokey Mountain as I hear they are set and forget, but atleast for the time being I'm able to put a tasty brisket on the table!


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## kc5tpy

Hello Aggie.  Glad to have you back posting!  I have said it before and will again: it's a hunk of meat, not rocket science.  EVERYONE can do it!  Follow the "rules" and EVERY brisket you make will turn out great.  The thing I find funny is reading all the posts from the Texas boys.  Now not saying someone from Texas can't make a good brisket but it seems odd ALL of us fall into the same technique.  Our temps may vary slightly but read 'em all and you will see they are all the same.  Some foil, some do not but BASICALLY all the same.  Bruno even finishes his in the oven if he is cooking for a crowd.  Brisket is REALLY easy to do.  So many ideas.  Trim.  No trim!  Fat up, fat down!  COOK IT PROPERLY!!!  Job done!  COOK UNTIL TENDER!  Job done!  Glad you are having good luck.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## cosmicslop

After reading this thread I am a little unclear on checking to see when an entire packer is finished. The general consensus seems to be, conduct a probe test and if it is butter tender it is ready.  However, should the entire brisket be that tender or just the thickest part of the flat?  Starting my first brisket tomorrow morning so it would be good to know.  Thank you.


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## bruno994

Cosmic check your brisket for tenderness in the thickest part of the flat but I will also check it in 3 or 4 spots as well, all in the fiat section.


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## cosmicslop

bruno994 said:


> Cosmic check your brisket for tenderness in the thickest part of the flat but I will also check it in 3 or 4 spots as well, all in the fiat section.


Thank you for the quick response Bruno.


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## demosthenes9

Cosmic, unless you have some really serious heat differential, the thinner parts of the flat should be done by the time the thickest part of the flat is ready.  If you are cooking a whole packer, the point end will be even thicker, but don't worry about that.  The point is made up of a different muscle group, is less dense that the flat and has more fat.  That's why you can ignore it and go by the thickest part of the flat to judge when the brisket is done.


----------



## cosmicslop

Demosthenes9 said:


> Cosmic, unless you have some really serious heat differential, the thinner parts of the flat should be done by the time the thickest part of the flat is ready.  If you are cooking a whole packer, the point end will be even thicker, but don't worry about that.  The point is made up of a different muscle group, is less dense that the flat and has more fat.  That's why you can ignore it and go by the thickest part of the flat to judge when the brisket is done.



This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you demos.


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## texassmokes

Ok so im in the process of cooking my first brisket.  It was 10.5 pounds.  I put it in last night around 7pm at 225 thinking it  would be done by 10am.  It is now 2:45 and has only reached 150 IT.  I turned the temp to 240 about an hour ago but hasnt changed anything.  I didnt want to foil because I like the bark but now im thinking I should.  I wanted to eat it for dinner tonight. 

Thoughts?


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## bmaddox

I would foil it to get it through the stall and then unfoil around 180 or 190 to firm the bark back up.


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  And I would just let it ride.  And so here we go.  Neither is right or wrong.  Use your judgement and do what you feel is right.  Next time do the other.  See which you think is better.  As an friend here often says: "patience grasshopper".  







   Both ways SHOULD get that brisket done by dinner tonight.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## demosthenes9

If you can turn the heat up more, crank it to 275 along with doing what Bmaddox advised.


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## gary s

I am thinking you have a temp gauge problem, sounds like you have been cooking at a lower temp than you thought 

Gary


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## kc5tpy

And another piece of good advice.  Increase the heat and foil to break the stall.  Should work GREAT!  But then I would have been smoking that brisket in the 300-325 range from the start.  And not foiling.  Again.  One is not right and one is not wrong.  At this point I would say if you are worried, raised the temp and foil.  Try it the other way next time.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## demosthenes9

KC5TPY said:


> And another piece of good advice.  Increase the heat and foil to break the stall.  Should work GREAT!  But then I would have been smoking that brisket in the 300-325 range from the start.  And not foiling.  Again.  One is not right and one is not wrong.  At this point I would say if you are worried, raised the temp and foil.  Try it the other way next time.  Keep Smokin!
> 
> Danny


Yep yep.  There's a big difference between giving advice for an entire cook versus that which is given in response to "help, I'm at stage XYZ and I want to eat in 2 hours."    The latter is "scramble mode" where you pull out all the tricks to try and get things done. 

Was watching some BBQ show the other night where Big Mo was smoking brisket or ribs or something.  At the outset, he said he was going to cook at X temp and wasn't going to foil because that was his preference.     As turn in time slowly approached, he realized that he wasn't going to make it so what did he do ?  Yep, he changed directions and wrapped the meat in foil and cranked up the heat.


----------



## kc5tpy

ABSOLUTELY!  How many times have we all had to change tactics?  I have had to put a fan in front of the fire box on the offset because there was no breeze.  Not a leaf wiggling.  Even finished some in the oven.  Raise the temp, foil; there is no "right" way.  Adapt to smoking conditions and that silly brisket.  Each can be different.  LEARN your smoker.  I think that is an important point.  IF A+B are not equalling C then plan B needs to be put in to action.  Read all the different methods.  Adapt them to what is happening during your cook at that time.  Well, that is my opinion. Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## gary s

I thought I was going to have to finish in the oven, but the rain held off, everything is good

Gary


----------



## kenafein

Bama BBQ said:


> That's it. Turns out perfect every time. My last packer was 15# untrimmed. It took 7 hrs. Moist and tender.



I just wanted to let you know, this worked out well.  I've had trouble with brisket in the past and your instructions were fool proof.  Everyone loved it.  I didn't have my phone with me to take pics, or I'd post, but much appreciated.  I had a 16# brisket that I squared up and cut fat from.  It was probably 12#s when I was done.  I put it on my Traeger Jr, with an AMNTS, for one hour at 180 and then cranked it up to 300.  Including the hour at 180, the brisket was cooked in just under 6 hours.


----------



## kc5tpy

Hello kenafein.  Glad all turned out well.  Hope we can help many more folks.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## jcbigler

Hello all, new member here.

I've been smoking brisket since I was about 12 years old. The only time I have a problem (other than one really bad choice for wood) is when I don't leave it to cook long enough. 

I grew up using the cheap Brinkman vertical water smokers. Now I have a cheap Char-Griller offset direct flow smoker.

Here's my method:

I buy the cheapest brisket I can find (and dang they are getting expensive these days--I remember when brisket used to be a $1.29/lb.) Usually I buy in the 13-14 lb. range just because of the number of people that I need to feed, though I do think that smaller briskets are inherently more tender. I usually end up trimming a couple of pounds of fat. 

I use lump charcoal and hickory and apple wood. 

I trim some of the fat, but leave a layer maybe an 1/8" thick. I don't use any rubs as I like to taste the meat and hickory smoke. I also put a couple of foil pans on the tray under the brisket  with about a half gallon of water total. This is a hold over from my younger years growing up using those cheap water smokers. But I think it helps to control the temps inside the smoker and to keep the brisket moist as it cooks. I always cook with the fat up, and the start with the point facing the fire box, though I do turn it around a couple of times so that it cooks evenly. 

I smoke at about 220-230 degrees under heavy smoke for at least 5 hours, sometimes 6 if it is a large brisket. I liberally mop a concentrated apple juice on the brisket about every hour. Then after 5 or 6 hours I will wrap it in foil, with a liberal application of my apple juice mop and then leave it to finish cooking. The brisket is usually in about the 160 degree range when I wrap it. Then I cook for another 4 or 5 hours just keeping the heat as steady as possible. I like my brisket to be above 190 degrees for at least an hour before I pull it off. It's usually a solid 200 degrees when I pull it off the smoker. 

I don't usually let it "rest", but it usually sits for about an hour before cutting for the rest of the meal to be ready.

My briskets need a solid 10 hours of cooking, and more if they are larger. If I try to cook them faster, like to make a mid afternoon meal time, they are always tough and not as moist. As long as I cook them long enough, they are always moist and tender and fill your mouth with an explosion of smoke flavor when you bite into it. 

And yeah, people in my family fight over the burnt ends  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Here's a pic of one of my recent briskets. 













1053221_680939878589322_149155704_o-2.jpg



__ jcbigler
__ Jun 2, 2015


----------



## gary s

Nice Looking Brisket   That just goes to show there are different methods that work great. I started on an ECB   still get it out every once in a while.  Great Job !!   

Gary


----------



## chitownsmoker99

That is a good looking brisket!!!

The biggest problem for me with Brisket has been taking it off too soon. Every time I let it get to 195-200 its perfect.

Once it was due to the Chicago winter, smoker wouldnt get hot enough and I had to serve dinner.

2nd time I had the smoker filled to the brim and it just needed another hour of so but had to serve the food.

Anytime I see im strapped for time I will wrap it up thanks to this thread.


----------



## gary s

Chitownsmoker99 said:


> That is a good looking brisket!!!
> 
> The biggest problem for me with Brisket has been taking it off too soon. Every time I let it get to 195-200 its perfect.
> 
> Once it was due to the Chicago winter, smoker wouldnt get hot enough and I had to serve dinner.
> 
> 2nd time I had the smoker filled to the brim and it just needed another hour of so but had to serve the food.
> 
> Anytime I see im strapped for time I will wrap it up thanks to this thread.


Just Remember, if the weather starts messing with you or you know you are running out of time and the smoker is struggling, you can always finish it in the oven. No shame in that, I've done it as a lot of others. If you have 5 - 6 hours of smoke it's going to be good.Don't stress, Put it in a roasting pan, wrap in foil crank up the temp and it will finish faster. When it gets close, unwrap put it on a rack (I use a cooling rack) with a pan underneath for about 30 min. It will firm up the bark.

Gary


----------



## aggie94

Thanks for the tip Gary


----------



## boykjo

JCBigler said:


> Hello all, new member here.
> 
> I've been smoking brisket since I was about 12 years old. The only time I have a problem (other than one really bad choice for wood) is when I don't leave it to cook long enough.
> 
> I grew up using the cheap Brinkman vertical water smokers. Now I have a cheap Char-Griller offset direct flow smoker.
> 
> Here's my method:
> 
> I buy the cheapest brisket I can find (and dang they are getting expensive these days--I remember when brisket used to be a $1.29/lb.) Usually I buy in the 13-14 lb. range just because of the number of people that I need to feed, though I do think that smaller briskets are inherently more tender. I usually end up trimming a couple of pounds of fat.
> 
> I use lump charcoal and hickory and apple wood.
> 
> I trim some of the fat, but leave a layer maybe an 1/8" thick. I don't use any rubs as I like to taste the meat and hickory smoke. I also put a couple of foil pans on the tray under the brisket  with about a half gallon of water total. This is a hold over from my younger years growing up using those cheap water smokers. But I think it helps to control the temps inside the smoker and to keep the brisket moist as it cooks. I always cook with the fat up, and the start with the point facing the fire box, though I do turn it around a couple of times so that it cooks evenly.
> 
> I smoke at about 220-230 degrees under heavy smoke for at least 5 hours, sometimes 6 if it is a large brisket. I liberally mop a concentrated apple juice on the brisket about every hour. Then after 5 or 6 hours I will wrap it in foil, with a liberal application of my apple juice mop and then leave it to finish cooking. The brisket is usually in about the 160 degree range when I wrap it. Then I cook for another 4 or 5 hours just keeping the heat as steady as possible. I like my brisket to be above 190 degrees for at least an hour before I pull it off. It's usually a solid 200 degrees when I pull it off the smoker.
> 
> I don't usually let it "rest", but it usually sits for about an hour before cutting for the rest of the meal to be ready.
> 
> My briskets need a solid 10 hours of cooking, and more if they are larger. If I try to cook them faster, like to make a mid afternoon meal time, they are always tough and not as moist. As long as I cook them long enough, they are always moist and tender and fill your mouth with an explosion of smoke flavor when you bite into it.
> 
> And yeah, people in my family fight over the burnt ends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a pic of one of my recent briskets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1053221_680939878589322_149155704_o-2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ jcbigler
> __ Jun 2, 2015









Joe


----------



## oldschoolbbq

O.K. , I've read all the post and totally agree with Danny , Scott , Maddox and the others comments .

We each have minor differences in our style and procedure , but we get the same results . That tells me these guys have one more secret they don't usually

think about , but do without thinking . . .   "Patience" .

Rushing a cook turns out screwed-up and you get Jaded and no longer want to try Brisket again .

There are two things precious to a Cook ; Time an Patience .  Know how long a piece of meat will *"Generaly"* takes to cook and

work around that time rame. Adding a coupleof hours will almost guarantee you'll have it done and waiting . _Remember , you _

_can hold your Brisky in a cooler for up to 6hrs._   , giving you plenty of room to play . . .

Patients comes in when you hit that "Stall" . You  get worried about  how it's doing , it's doing fine , just (IMHO) do not open

the lid , this (IMHO) lets out all the(constant) heat and , even though you  recover quickly , there *is* an effect on your

Smoke .   I preach , "No peeking" and refrain from spritzing or doing anything to the meat and just tend the smoke production.

Once you reach you cooking temp. , just work at holding it there (yes, a lot of babysitting) ,  The Thin Blue Smoke is your

offering to the "Smoke gods" , and they return the Love you worked to achieve .

Not there are some that swear by Spritzing or Basting , fine , that's your choice , but the hints and tricks outlined here will 

help you much .

 Have fun and . . .


----------



## mobiledawg

I am using the same smoker, MES, and basically the same methods. My brisket comes out tender and juicy everytime but taste and looks like it has benn steamed not smoked. No bark, no smokering, no smoky flavor, just a very tender very bland roast. I wonder if it is the smoker.


----------



## heubrewer

mobiledawg said:


> I am using the same smoker, MES, and basically the same methods. My brisket comes out tender and juicy everytime but taste and looks like it has benn steamed not smoked. No bark, no smokering, no smoky flavor, just a very tender very bland roast. I wonder if it is the smoker.



Do you wrap part way into the smoke?

That may be the culprit.  I have an MES and smoked about a dozen briskets this year.  I don't claim to be an "expert" but I know my MES pretty well.  I set the smoker to 235F use fruit wood of some sort (cherry (favorite), orange, apple etc) and don't open the smoker until it reaches about 195F.  Then I start probing using a toothpick to test for doneness

Here is a point I just took off about 20 min ago













image.jpg



__ heubrewer
__ Jun 5, 2015


----------



## mobiledawg

I did wrap this time. got none of the color that you got. I've been readying in other areas of the forum about AMNPS...thinking of trying that.

Yours looks awesome


----------



## demosthenes9

Mobiledawg,

Can you give some more details about your cooks ?  Reason I ask is that there are a number of variables at play.   Let's look at not enough smoke flavor for example.  Are you putting smoke to it the whole time ?   Are you wrapping early in the smoke ?  Are you using a mild wood like Apple ?   As for bark, again, are you foiling early and for a large part of the cook ?   What's the chamber temp ?  Are you sure that temp is accurate ?

It could be one little thing messing you up, or some combination of things.  If you give a very detailed description of your process, it would help us to narrow the problem down.


----------



## mobiledawg

The temp is 225. I'm using hickory wood chips and apparently not adding enough wood,put brisket in at midnight. Added wood  several times before going to bed,  at 5:00 am I added wood. Checked again at 8:00 am and the wood for some reason had not burned at all so I emptied the entire smoke box of ashes and started over. I'm using water in the pan and go back and forth with the damper, if I feel like it's really steamy inside I open,  but I also close It if I think I need more smoke. Not sure which is correct. I wrap after about 6-7 hours, at around 155-160 degrees and leave it wrapped until 190. I then out the entire wrapped pan in a cooler with towels for two hours. Apparently from what I'm reading, not near enough smoke.


----------



## jcbigler

mobiledawg said:


> The temp is 225. I'm using hickory wood chips and apparently not adding enough wood,put brisket in at midnight. Added wood several times before going to bed, at 5:00 am I added wood. Checked again at 8:00 am and the wood for some reason had not burned at all so I emptied the entire smoke box of ashes and started over. *I'm using water in the pan and go back and forth with the damper*, if I feel like it's really steamy inside I open, but I also close It if I think I need more smoke. Not sure which is correct. I wrap after about 6-7 hours, at around 155-160 degrees and leave it wrapped until 190. I then out the entire wrapped pan in a cooler with towels for two hours. Apparently from what I'm reading, not near enough smoke.


Are you talking about the damper in the smoke stack? or on the inlet to the firebox?

I always leave the stack damper fully open and open or close the damper to the firebox depending on if I need more or less heat (i.e. more oxygen to the fire make it hotter and less oxygen makes it cooler). 

I use hardwood lump charcoal for the heat and chunks, not chips, of hickory for the smoke and flavor. 

I think maybe you're just not getting enough smoke from the lack of wood. Try using larger chunks of wood and more of them. 

Edit: never mind, I see you are using one of the MES smokers. disregard my smoke stack and firebox comments. I still think you are not using enough wood though.


----------



## bmaddox

mobiledawg said:


> The temp is 225. I'm using hickory wood chips and apparently not adding enough wood,put brisket in at midnight. Added wood several times before going to bed, at 5:00 am I added wood. Checked again at 8:00 am and the wood for some reason had not burned at all so I emptied the entire smoke box of ashes and started over. I'm using water in the pan and go back and forth with the damper, if I feel like it's really steamy inside I open, but I also close It if I think I need more smoke. Not sure which is correct. I wrap after about 6-7 hours, at around 155-160 degrees and leave it wrapped until 190. I then out the entire wrapped pan in a cooler with towels for two hours. Apparently from what I'm reading, not near enough smoke.


No need for a water pan in an MES. Since the unit is sealed so well it turns into a steam room like you are experiencing. Try one without the water and add chips every hour to see how that goes. The stock chip tray is capable of smoking well it just takes more effort and monitoring. Also, you could try wrapping in butcher paper instead of foil. It will breath a little so you don't steam the brisket.


----------



## smocan

Yeah I have a Napoleon Apollo 300 (Canadian company) which is basically a WSM with a bunch of mods too it. I never put water in the pan. I just cover it with foil so no fat drips into it and catches Fire. Water in these cheap little single chamber numbers is an extra variable that I choose to negate. 

I put the brisket in un trimmed fat down and cook around 285-290 till I get an IT of 165 then wrap in butcher paper and go till I hit 190-195 then either pull it off seperate the point, cube it, dip in au jus, roll in salt/pepper/cracked coriander rub and pop it back in till it gets to 201-203 IT or a probe passes through it like it isn't there. Perfect every time.


----------



## aggie94

Smocan it sounds like you got it down.  Any problem finding briskets in Ontario?


----------



## smocan

I have a guy for brisket. It ain't cheap though. So jealous of the guys on here talking $5,$3, $0.99/lb. I'd cook brisket for the fun of it at $0.99/lb!


----------



## jcbigler

My dad just bought me a 12.75lb brisket for $2.96/lb. 

I had to throw a bunch of stuff out of the freezer to find a place for it.


----------



## smocan

This is happening:













image.jpg



__ smocan
__ Jun 12, 2015


----------



## jonnyg

I know right? Briskets around here are 8.99/lbs.  Haha


----------



## aggie94

Jonny I hope you are kidding about briskets in Spokane being $9 lb.  They've been around $3 for select and $6 for what they say is prime, I've been unhappy with that because briskets use to be dirt cheap.  Decided to put my latest experience in here and it has to do with doneness.  Last couple of briskets I've cooked to IT of 205 and they have been very tender, so decided that is the number to shoot for.  Had to cook one yesterday for a company gathering, it was a 13lb brisket and cut it in half to make it a little easier to handle.  Brisket was on the smoker for 8hrs, wrapped after 5, but still wasn't up to temp.  Storms were moving in so took Gary's suggestion and put it in the oven.  Took another 2 1/2 hrs for the end with the point and 4 hrs for the flat to hit 205, pulled it and stuck in a cooler for 2 hrs (3am) to rest it and then into the fridge.  Got up this morning and brisket looks dry and burnt, guess need to go for an IT of 200 next time.  I've heard every brisket is different but I'm really starting to believe it!


----------



## mummel

Subbing to this thread :)


----------



## noboundaries

Aggie94 said:


> Jonny I hope you are kidding about briskets in Spokane being $9 lb.  They've been around $3 for select and $6 for what they say is prime, I've been unhappy with that because briskets use to be dirt cheap.  Decided to put my latest experience in here and it has to do with doneness.  Last couple of briskets I've cooked to IT of 205 and they have been very tender, so decided that is the number to shoot for.  Had to cook one yesterday for a company gathering, it was a 13lb brisket and cut it in half to make it a little easier to handle.  Brisket was on the smoker for 8hrs, wrapped after 5, but still wasn't up to temp.  Storms were moving in so took Gary's suggestion and put it in the oven.  Took another 2 1/2 hrs with the end with the point and 4 hrs for the flat to hit 205, pulled it and stuck in a cooler for 2 hrs (3am) to rest it and then into the fridge.  Got up this morning and brisket looks dry and burnt, guess need to go for an IT of 200 next time.  I've heard every brisket is different but I'm really starting to believe it!


Don't forget the probe test along with IT. 

Beef prices are just starting to come down here in Sacramento.  Over the winter brisket was $9/lb at the local grocer (Choice grade) and not much cheaper at Costco ($7-8/lb Choice).  Then boom!  Overnight prices started dropping.  Grocer had Choice brisket for $6/lb and Wally World had Select grade for $3.28/lb when I was there just over a week ago before a weeklong trip.  After eating marginal restaurant food all week I need to smoke something and brisket is at the top of my list.


----------



## smocan

Just a bit of Q-View from this weekends cook. Sorry there isn't a better photo of finished product. First cook in my Stumbs XL-Baby. "Stumps don't make no junk."













image.jpg



__ smocan
__ Jun 15, 2015


















image.jpg



__ smocan
__ Jun 15, 2015


















image.jpg



__ smocan
__ Jun 15, 2015


----------



## fredfrankbob

oldschoolbbq said:


> O.K. , I've read all the post and totally agree with Danny , Scott , Maddox and the others comments .
> 
> We each have minor differences in our style and procedure , but we get the same results . That tells me these guys have one more secret they don't usually
> 
> think about , but do without thinking . . .   "Patience" .
> 
> Rushing a cook turns out screwed-up and you get Jaded and no longer want to try Brisket again .
> 
> There are two things precious to a Cook ; Time an Patience .  Know how long a piece of meat will *"Generaly"* takes to cook and
> 
> work around that time rame. Adding a coupleof hours will almost guarantee you'll have it done and waiting . _Remember , you _
> 
> _can hold your Brisky in a cooler for up to 6hrs._   , giving you plenty of room to play . . .
> 
> Patients comes in when you hit that "Stall" . You  get worried about  how it's doing , it's doing fine , just (IMHO) do not open
> 
> the lid , this (IMHO) lets out all the(constant) heat and , even though you  recover quickly , there *is* an effect on your
> 
> Smoke .   I preach , "No peeking" and refrain from spritzing or doing anything to the meat and just tend the smoke production.
> 
> Once you reach you cooking temp. , just work at holding it there (yes, a lot of babysitting) ,  The Thin Blue Smoke is your
> 
> offering to the "Smoke gods" , and they return the Love you worked to achieve .
> 
> Not there are some that swear by Spritzing or Basting , fine , that's your choice , but the hints and tricks outlined here will
> 
> help you much .
> 
> Have fun and . . .


I agree, I am reading and I see the patience factor here, I read on here somewhere multiple times....it will be done when it's done, don't crank up the heat.  Plan it out so you finish early and have a plan if it finishes too early.  I just did my first brisket and I planned for it to be done about 4 hours early in case it took longer I would be ok.  It finished 7.5 hours early, I had a plan for that too.  I believe that smoking requires great attention to detail, if you don't care for that, your dinner will reflect that.

I use an MES 30, heavy smoke for 6-8 hours with apple juice and water in the drip pan @ 225, once the meat hits 170 wrap in foil and let it go to your desired tem, for me it was 200 degrees.  I watched my smoker and everytime the smoke slowed down, I got up and loaded with more chips.  I also believe that resting makes a difference.

I am by no means an expert but I treat everything I cook on the smoker the same, I pay attention and do what it needs when it needs it.  I have never had anything come off the smoker that I was not pleased with, though there may be room for improvement!


----------



## aggie94

Noboundaries I did stick it a few times with a toothpick but need more experience, haven't done it enough to know how hard it should be to push it in.  Have read that over 200 degrees a toothpick should go into a brisket like it is butter, mine wasn't, I had to push a little to get a toothpick to go in.  Smocan are you cooking 3 at once?  Well my brisket turned out editable, which I am grateful for, I poured some beef broth over it and warmed it in the toaster oven.  Hungry office people ate it up but I still think it was over cooked.


----------



## cancop

So I took a run at my very first brisket today in my master built electric 30 smoker.. used oak .. had a 9lb brisket rubbed with salt and pepper... threw it on at 250 and heat dropped way down to 125 and climbed back up to 250 after about 30 minutes.. since it was my first time and didn't know what to watch for i used a digital thermometer and set it for alert at 203 internal temp.. after 8 hours I get the alert..didn't even wrap yet.. I pulled it off and tried 2 other thermometer and sure enough they were all 203 and I tried different areas in the brisket .. ranged from 198 in thicker areas to 203 on thinner areas... 8 hours seems really fast right ?? I'm letting it set right now in paper.. here is what it looked like when I pulled it off 













20150615_150515.jpg



__ cancop
__ Jun 15, 2015


----------



## aggie94

It looks delicious, 8 hrs seems about right.  Mine took 12 hrs and that made me nervous, never had one go that long.  You said paper, is that butcher paper and did you have to order it online?


----------



## cancop

I just wrapped it in parchment paper ( non waxed ) gonna let it cool to about 180 then slice er up with


----------



## cancop

fail.. some parts are nice and tender and juicy ( fattier parts..) most is tough and dry and over cooked 













14343993508791786203219.jpg



__ cancop
__ Jun 15, 2015


----------



## bruno994

Hard to tell from your pic, but it looks like that might be the point end and you have sliced with the grain...I might be wrong, don't have my glasses with me.  A few more pics would help.  

At 203 IT, was the brisket probe tender?


----------



## cancop

used way to much pepper also.. overwhelming to the point of unedible... sorry no more pic..I already fed it to the dogs ( I carved off the bark lol)


----------



## aggie94

Cancop was this a packer cut with a thick layer of fat?  You may be able to save it, cut off a section, add some liquid (beef soup, vinegar, etc) cover it and put in the oven for 30 to 60 minutes.  I've had some luck trying to moisten it back up.

Edit: must have sent this at the same time, didn't see you got rid of it.  Your loss makes me want to cry, I would have atleast tried to chop it up and put sauce over it.


----------



## kenafein

Cancop said:


> fail.. some parts are nice and tender and juicy ( fattier parts..) most is tough and dry and over cooked [GALLERY="media, 403522"][/GALLERY][/quote]
> It might actually be that you undercooked it.  I've had this same problem before.  I cooked my last one to 210 and let it rest and it was great.  You might just not have had enough collagen melted, yet.  Say you pulled it at 180, it would likely have tasted about the same, dry and tough, because the meat is way overcooked, but the magic happens when the collagen melts.  A toothpick will go through it super easy.


----------



## bmaddox

kenafein said:


> It might actually be that you undercooked it.  I've had this same problem before.  I cooked my last one to 210 and let it rest and it was great.  You might just not have had enough collagen melted, yet.  Say you pulled it at 180, it would likely have tasted about the same, dry and tough, because the meat is way overcooked, but the magic happens when the collagen melts.  A toothpick will go through it super easy.


Undercooking has been my biggest problem and hard to overcome. I will probe a brisket and think it is done but when I slice it up the small lines of collagen are still intact. The times when I have let it go until that collagen melted it was a night and day difference.


----------



## cancop

I feel like that could be right.. I also think my thermometer was off.. either way it was 80 bucks I'd like to have back ha ! Beef in canada ain't cheap !


----------



## cancop

I asked for a packer and the butcher gave me a 9 lber ..there was not a thick fat layer like Ive seen on tv/ articles online... it was pretty lean I didn't trim much...not much marbling.. I wonder if canadian butchers don't know what a packer is ? regarding my thermometer... when I put the probe in in the house it was 50 f ... then I put  the meat in the smoker within the first hour the temp on the thermometer went up to 150f


----------



## kenafein

Cancop said:


> I feel like that could be right.. I also think my thermometer was off.. either way it was 80 bucks I'd like to have back ha ! Beef in canada ain't cheap !


I know what you mean.  It's terrifying to screw up a brisket.  Beef has simply become too expensive.  Boston Butts are super cheap and near fool proof.  I cooked 3 8lb roasts for my daughter's birthday and that cost less than $30.  They just seem a whole lot safer.  When you're ready to try again, I used Bama's method from page one of this thread, and it worked out well(fast too).  Good luck!


----------



## smocan

Cancop said:


> I asked for a packer and the butcher gave me a 9 lber ..there was not a thick fat layer like Ive seen on tv/ articles online... it was pretty lean I didn't trim much...not much marbling.. I wonder if canadian butchers don't know what a packer is ? regarding my thermometer... when I put the probe in in the house it was 50 f ... then I put  the meat in the smoker within the first hour the temp on the thermometer went up to 150f



You just need to find a butcher who doesn't want to divide the brisket to make more money. If you get in good with the right butcher they'll reduce the price per pound if you're buying 16lbs of packer.

To check your thermometer put it in a pot of boiling water and it should read 112*F( I know).


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## jeepdiver

Wtf.  I thought denver was a beef town.  Been calling around all day looking for a brisket to cook for my birthday this weekend.  Only 2 places so far with packers and the cheapest is 9.98 a pound.   Guess I will just pay 20 bucks a pound for some nice dry aged ribeyes at this rate.  I just can't do 10 bucks a pound for brisket


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## aggie94

JeepDriver I agree, $10 a pound is way too much.  Brisket is a tough cut of meat that is difficult to cook, that's why it use to be cheap.  For that price you should be able to get some really good steak.


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## aggie94

Cancop, I haven't checked the temp after 1 hr but that seems unreasonable that the brisket would come up 100 degrees that quickly.  Usually I wait 4 or 5 hours before I start checking.  Anyone else have any experience with this?


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## smocan

I usually stick the probe in after 4hrs and it's usually in the 160-165 range. Just in time for wrapping.


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## bmaddox

With the cost of brisket I had to make sure it made it to the house safely.....













IMG_1691.JPG



__ bmaddox
__ Jun 19, 2015






This sucker was $95!!!!


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## mummel

That photo is epic.  Wall of fame stuff.


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## kenafein

bmaddox said:


> With the cost of brisket I had to make sure it made it to the house safely.....
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> __ bmaddox
> __ Jun 19, 2015
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> This sucker was $95!!!!



Funny pic, terrifying price.  How big is it?


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## bmaddox

About 16 lbs. it was 5.99 a pound and was at the only place I have found around me that sells whole briskets.


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## ozsmoker

bmaddox said:


> About 16 lbs. it was 5.99 a pound and was at the only place I have found around me that sells whole briskets.


no sam's club near you?


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## bmaddox

ozsmoker said:


> no sam's club near you?


Yes but I have a free Costco membership from work and have been too cheap to pay for a sams membership


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## kenafein

bmaddox said:


> Yes but I have a free Costco membership from work and have been too cheap to pay for a sams membership



Your Costco is expensive,  they were selling prime packers for 4/lb last I checked, but they were all pretty sorry, not even.


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## bmaddox

kenafein said:


> Your Costco is expensive, they were selling prime packers for 4/lb last I checked, but they were all pretty sorry, not even.


My Costco only sells flats. I had to go to a butcher shop to get a packer (and it was only a choice).


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## gary s

Bummer,   Kinda like not being able to find Fresh Pork Bellies around here

Gary


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## mummel

Costco jacked their pork ribs and butt prices up by 40% two weeks ago.  WTF????  Why would they do this?


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## kenafein

bmaddox said:


> My Costco only sells flats. I had to go to a butcher shop to get a packer (and it was only a choice).


Have you tried beef shoulder clods?  They're pretty good and maybe they'd be cheaper than brisket.  I can get them at smart and final for less than $4/lb.  They are select though.


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## aggie94

I have never seen clods but listening to the old guys that ran the meat markets/barbecue shops in Lockhart the clods

use to be real popular long ago.  From what they said brisket wasn't very popular back then.


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## smocan

Brisket was regarded as UN eatable and that's why Cowboys used to cook it. You would put it on smoke early in the morning go do cowboy work all day and after 12-16hrs come back to camp and it was tender. It was a cut that most merchants couldn't sell. In K.C. Back in the day "burnt ends" were given away for free because they were deemed inferior. Now I think theyre the best thing going in bbq, personally.


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## gary s

Here is an article Published in Texas Monthly Magazine by Daniel Vaughn    NOT MINE !!

*THE HISTORY OF SMOKED BRISKET*

*IT'S DEFINITELY NOT WHAT YOU'D EXPECT.*

*BY DANIEL VAUGHN  · JANUARY 24, 2014*








What you know about the history of smoked brisket in Texas is probably wrong. People have been eating brisket since the first pits were dug in the earth, but only by a sort of default: it was standard practice to cook whole animals for the big community celebrations, which means people ate that cut of meat as part of a smoked-meat meal where all the various cuts were served. These days, smoked brisket on its own is widely considered the king of the Texas barbecue menu, but it hasn’t always been that way, and contrary to some bold claims by certain barbecue joints, it didn’t start with Central Texas meat markets.

Black’s BBQ in Lockhart credits themselves with being the first to use briskets exclusively on their barbecue menu. That was in the late fifties. By the sixties the beef purveyor IBP was shipping individual beef cuts in boxes, and the tradition of working with half carcasses saw a swift decline. It wasn’t until then that most of the barbecue joints around the state started adopting this inexpensive cut of meat. Joe Capello of City Market in Luling remembers when they would separate the forequarter away from the carcasses. The rib section and the sirloin would make it into the raw meat cases while the entirety of the front of the animal–the cross-cut chuck–would be separated and smoked. Back in those days you didn’t ask for brisket or clod at these Central Texas meat markets. As Capello explains, “Customers would just come in and ask for beef. If they wanted it fatty we’d give them the brisket. If they wanted lean then we’d do the shoulder clod.” The menu at Smitty’s Market in Lockhart is reminder of those options. “Lean” means shoulder clod and “Fat” means brisket.

_Smitty’s Market menu_

Allen Prine up in Wichita Falls remembers it the same way. His grandfather Harold Prine Sr. opened Prine’s Market in 1925. They sold hams and beef, but not specifically brisket. They would just get the whole forequarter and butcher it themselves. “We’d cut these big these big 110-pound pieces into about eleven different shaped pieces. We cooked them all exactly like we do the briskets now.” He doesn’t remember serving brisket on its own until about thirty years ago when they started ordering cryovaced ones. “It’s always been that way since.”

Two things came together to create the brisket we know today. The Institutional Meat Purchase Specifications  (IMPS) for beef were first published in 1958, and boxed beef came onto the market in 1965. IMPS was a guide used in contracts for large meat purchases to ensure the buyer (read: at first, primarily the military) could get a predictable product when they ordered a thousand chuck rolls. These same specs are followed by meat packing plants for retail cuts, and customers as small as mom-and-pop barbecue joints order their meat based on IMPS. Whether they know it or not, that whole boneless brisket is really IMPS item #120. I wanted to know how much differently cattle were butchered before IMPS. Did briskets in the twenties look like they do today? I needed an expert.

_Steve Olson separating the brisket from the forequarter in a NAMP video_

Steve Olson is a cattle rancher in upstate New York, but he worked for USDA for decades. When he started his government job they needed someone to overhaul IMPS in 1983, and as he puts it “I was a lousy writer” and the specs didn’t require any flowery language. He took to the task. Today you can find him and his Jersey accent starring in the meat cutting videos provided by NAMP. I asked him to surmise how Texas meat markets might have cut a brisket from the forequarter. He said the location of the cross cut used today that creates the top edge of the brisket is probably where they cut it back then too. The end of the sternum where the brisket cut begins is what he called a “landmark” for meat cutters back before IMPS. But it would probably have been smoked with the bones still attached. It wasn’t until the mid-seventies when boneless briskets became standard. Steve traveled with some cryovac reps then as “they were trying to get the industry to make everything boneless so the cryovac wouldn’t leak.” Now you can’t find a bone-in brisket.

I’m not sure what the briskets looked like back in the early twentieth century, but the earliest mention I can find of smoked brisket isn’t from the fifties, and it wasn’t at a barbecue joint. Rather it is from newspaper advertisements from two grocery stores in 1910. Naud Burnett in Greenville and Watson’s Grocery in El Paso were both serving smoked brisket from their deli counter along with other traditionally Jewish food items like smoked white fish and Kosher sausage. I’m not certain of the religion of these grocers, but their menu is geared toward a Jewish clientele.

A few years later in 1916 the Weil Brothers in Corpus Christi advertised their smoked brisket. The store was owned by Alex and Moise Weil. Their father Charles Weil was a Jew who emigrated to Texas from Alsace, France, in 1867. Pastrami (cured and smoked brisket) is a common item on Jewish menus, but in their store they sold pastrami (pastromie in the ad) along with smoked brisket. It probably wasn’t served hot on butcher paper like the Central Texas meat markets, but those meat markets wouldn’t be listing brisket on their menu for another forty years. 

If you know the requirements of Kosher food, it makes sense that Jewish immigrants would be the first ones to smoke specifically brisket in the States. The hind quarter of beef isn’t Kosher unless the sciatic nerve is removed, and that is rarely done by butchers. That leaves the forequarter including the brisket, which is revered as _the_  cut of meat to enjoy for Passover. Evidently, it was also popular enough for the smoked version to make it into Jewish grocery stores in Texas long before it became the darling of our barbecue joints.


----------



## mobiledawg

My brand new Costco does not sell packers and will not order it for me. All their other meat looks great. Much better than SAMS.


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## sarnott

Sometimes when the fat cap is too thin, I smoke beef bacon above it so it gets a constant drip of fat!. That helps too.

Scott

Hampton, VA


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## texasslowsmoker

So the general agreement of SMF is that you can't get the same tender juicy brisket from a flat only cook vs whole packer?


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## kc5tpy

TexasSlowSmoker said:


> So the general agreement of SMF is that you can't get the same tender juicy brisket from a flat only cook vs whole packer?


Hello.  OH NO!  Yes I live in England but born and raised 41 yrs. in so. Tx. before I moved here.  I see where you are going here my Texas Brother.  What I THINK we are saying ( what I am saying ) is that for new folks trying their FIRST or second brisket they MAY have more luck trying a packer versus a flat.  If "you got skills, then all bets are off.  Not trying to teach Grandma to suck eggs.  I started this thread to try to find out why some folks can smoke a brisket easily and others just seem to have NO luck.  Also to try and help folks having trouble.  Been smoking brisket a while; so could I produce a GOOD smoked flat?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   I'd like to think so.  Personally;  I would not waste my time with a flat.  Just a personal preference.  If you like them and have good luck with them then WELL DONE!  For my taste I think the fat on the point adds flavor.  I use no rubs.  I use no "BBQ sauce".  S&P ( well, maybe sometimes cayenne pepper )!  The flavor of the meat and smoke MUST stand on it's own IMHO.  YES!  I am still working on my first heart attack.  If you have the skills and LIKE rubs and sauces and can make a good flat, then GO FOR IT!  To each his own.  Nothing wrong there.  I am not trying to promote my way.  Trying to help others out.  Have FUN!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## texasslowsmoker

KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  OH NO!  Yes I live in England but born and raised 41 yrs. in so. Tx. before I moved here.  I see where you are going here my Texas Brother.  What I THINK we are saying ( what I am saying ) is that for new folks trying their FIRST or second brisket they MAY have more luck trying a packer versus a flat.  If "you got skills, then all bets are off.  Not trying to teach Grandma to suck eggs.  I started this thread to try to find out why some folks can smoke a brisket easily and others just seem to have NO luck.  Also to try and help folks having trouble.  Been smoking brisket a while; so could I produce a GOOD smoked flat?
> 
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> 
> I'd like to think so.  Personally;  I would not waste my time with a flat.  Just a personal preference.  If you like them and have good luck with them then WELL DONE!  For my taste I think the fat on the point adds flavor.  I use no rubs.  I use no "BBQ sauce".  S&P ( well, maybe sometimes cayenne pepper )!  The flavor of the meat and smoke MUST stand on it's own IMHO.  YES!  I am still working on my first heart attack.  If you have the skills and LIKE rubs and sauces and can make a good flat, then GO FOR IT!  To each his own.  Nothing wrong there.  I am not trying to promote my way.  Trying to help others out.  Have FUN!  Keep Smokin!
> Danny



Right on brother, I read the entire thread. I've only ever done whole packers, but this weekend I'm cooking a rather large one and had been debating on splitting and cooking individually (partially for time and partially because of my smoker size), but not at the risk of a lowered quality of the end product.


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## kc5tpy

HEY!  If you are sure about what you are doing then splitting is an option.  What I would do ( not that you asked ) is cut that packer in half.  Do you NEED that much meat for this function?  Freeze the other half.  That way you get to smoke TWO briskets!  BONUS!! I shouldn't say it on a smoking site but many times I half the brisket.  Then half one piece.  I smoke the half and then BRAISE the other pieces.  OH! MAN!  Fall apart braised brisket??  FANTASTIC!  I am going to try smoking it for a time and THEN braising it in the oven.  On the "to do list".  Just an idea.  Have FUN!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## texasslowsmoker

KC5TPY said:


> HEY!  If you are sure about what you are doing then splitting is an option.  What I would do ( not that you asked ) is cut that packer in half.  Do you NEED that much meat for this function?  Freeze the other half.  That way you get to smoke TWO briskets!  BONUS!! I shouldn't say it on a smoking site but many times I half the brisket.  Then half one piece.  I smoke the half and then BRAISE the other pieces.  OH! MAN!  Fall apart braised brisket??  FANTASTIC!  I am going to try smoking it for a time and THEN braising it in the oven.  On the "to do list".  Just an idea.  Have FUN!  Keep Smokin!
> Danny



I'm intrigued! When you say you half it, how do you mean? I definitely don't need 15lbs of brisket, as I'm only cooking for my family. Wife and 2 kids, as my youngest is still on the bottle. She may get a few bites of the tater salad. :)


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## kc5tpy

Hello. Rectangle.   Longer than wider .  As you look down at a packer.  In your case  I would cut in thirds length wise.  Just "whack" it up into 3 equalish " size pieces,  Cook one and freeze the rest.  OR smoke it all and then cut and freeze.  Or smoke two and oven cook one.  OR-  And so on.  For ME I would save a piece for low and slow oven cooking.  Brown all sides WELL, S&P, throw in a half onion cut in chunks, big chunks of celery, big chunks of carrot, Chilli peppers if you like them.   Add liquid.  And then braise low and slow in the oven.  OR! Smoke the piece of brisket for maybe 1-2 hours and then continue as above.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## jcbigler

I've been smoking brisket since I was about 12. I don't think I have ever once cut the flat and point apart. Don't think I've ever even thought about it until I started reading up on BBQ and smoking a few years ago. I know that's how most of the restaurants around here cook theirs. And I think it really affects the over all flavor and texture of the brisket. I prefer them smoked whole. 

I just don't think I could bring myself to do it.


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## texasslowsmoker

JCBigler said:


> I've been smoking brisket since I was about 12. I don't think I have ever once cut the flat and point apart. Don't think I've ever even thought about it until I started reading up on BBQ and smoking a few years ago. I know that's how most of the restaurants around here cook theirs. And I think it really affects the over all flavor and texture of the brisket. I prefer them smoked whole.
> 
> I just don't think I could bring myself to do it.















1435281389462.jpg



__ texasslowsmoker
__ Jun 25, 2015





 it's not going to be without great sadness. This beaut is 15 lbs.


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## jcbigler

That looks like a nice brisket 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Saw a 19.5lb one at Wal-Mart the other day. And at only $2.96/lb I would have bought it if I didn't already have one in the freezer waiting to be smoked.


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## smokinnewb9085

Heyllo, attempting a brisket this weekend, new to smoking..just started using a homemade smoke shed, failed miserably at summer sausage the other day. Turned out like meatloaf. My smoker holds 180 to 200 degrees steady its lp powered n I burn applewood in a seperate pan. Any tips on not meeting my demise on a brisket. Ive grilled at least fifty over charcoal in my old grill..I figured if I could grill I could smoke too lol...but it seems to be a different ballpark


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## mobiledawg

I'm pretty new to this forum also, there is a ton of great advice and techinques on this site. Just have fun looking around. The best advice I can tell you about smoking  brisket on any type of smoker is get plenty of smoke to the meat in the first 5 or 6 hours and BE PATIENT, it's done when it's done and not before. Good luck.

BKV


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## smokinnewb9085

I appreciate your advice much. I think thats one of my biggest problems is patience n not wanting to overcook something anyway..ill post pics of my progress


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## aggie94

Thanks Gary that was an interesting read, now I know more about why briskets come the way they do. 

TexasSlow you asked a question comparing whole packers vs just cooking a flat.  When I use to buy just flats they were very learn, nearly no fat, and I had a hard time not having them come out overcooked and very dry.  And still tough.  Cooking a packer with the fat all over it has made it easier for me to produce a tender and moist brisket.  So I would answer YES to your question.  Others may have different results.  I usually cut mine in half and cook both pieces at the same time, eat on one, and freeze the other for later.


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## kc5tpy

Aggie94 said:


> Thanks Gary that was an interesting read, now I know more about why briskets come the way they do.
> 
> TexasSlow you asked a question comparing whole packers vs just cooking a flat.  When I use to buy just flats they were very learn, nearly no fat, and I had a hard time not having them come out overcooked and very dry.  And still tough.  Cooking a packer with the fat all over it has made it easier for me to produce a tender and moist brisket.  So I would answer YES to your question.  Others may have different results.  I usually cut mine in half and cook both pieces at the same time, eat on one, and freeze the other for later.


As above.  It is not IMPOSSIBLE to cook a flat to perfection.  I know some folks do it.  I smoked my first brisket about 41yrs. ago.  *MAYBE* I could produce a good flat.  I like to *think* so.  But I can guarantee I'd be doin a dance to get it right; *IF* I could pull it off at all.  For my personal tastes , I LIKE the flavor the fat on the point adds.  Just my opinion.  AND I think the fat helps to cook the brisket to tender and juicy.  Have a look at the link below.  You want a challenge?  Smoke THAT to perfection!  Typical British supermarket piece of brisket.  No finished pictures but just FYI it turned out, OK.  And OK ain't sayin MUCH!  Tender ( don't know how I managed ).  But NO flavor.  Keep Smokin!

Danny

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/143709/british-brisket


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## aggie94

And we complain about the price of our briskets over here, Danny I was unaware of the challenges you face trying to make barbecue in England!


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## kc5tpy

Hello Aggie94.  Hey my Tx. brother.  How are ya?  It is a chore.  The British butchers don't know American cuts.  You saw the "brisket".  Beef short ribs?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Chuck roast?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   7 bone roast?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Well how about Boston Butt?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   So what DO you have???  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   But I am off topic.  "My Bad" as they say now.  This is not about brisket.

Danny


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## floridasteve

Danny, what a GREAT thread!!!  It took me two days, but I finally read the whole thing.  I'm doing my first Brisket this week, and thanks to all the advice on this thread, I'm doing it with at least some confidence, and the knowledge that if it goes bad, I have someplace to go to make it right the next time.  I will be taking copious notes.  Thanks to all who have contributed and especially Danny!
:points:


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## kc5tpy

Hello FloridaSteve.  You are quite welcome Buddy.  I just started it; the guys have contributed.  As you read through the posts you start to see we all do brisket "pretty close!" to the same way.  Slight differences.

YEAH!  Turns out that a lot of these guys know what they are doing!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Who would have thought?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   GREAT bunch of folks here on SMF who are willing to share knowledge and help folks out.  Hope all goes well for you.  Good Luck Buddy!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## smokinnewb9085

Okay got a prime cut 11.75 lb brisket, dry rubbed it wrapped it up n fridged it at noon, I plan on starting the smokehouse around five or six a.m...I got two 20lb bags of hickory and applewood chunks for the burning pan..freshly filled tanks of lp..im stoked im just gunna let it ride all day itll b done when its done, I plan on taking severalmpics throughout the process


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## spartanrob

When wrapping the brisket in foil, do you leave the probe in?  Or just cook it for ~2more hours?  Can you open the foil and insert the probe?


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## kc5tpy

Hello Spartanrob.  No need for the probe when wrapping.  Cook the brisket to an IT of 195-205.  I prefer about 190 ( just my preference ).  Then foil wrap and rest without opening the foil for at LEAST 1 hour, I would give it 2 hours if not rushed.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## spartanrob

Thanks.  I'm very happy with the results, it's my best one yet.  I would still like to get it a little more tender, I think i just need to let it go longer once wrapped (i think ).   Extremely happy  with the chicken!!  Smoked yesterday then reheated on the BBQ today, everyone loved it.













IMG_1069.JPG



__ spartanrob
__ Jul 4, 2015


















IMG_1070.JPG



__ spartanrob
__ Jul 4, 2015


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## kc5tpy

Looks dang good to me!  Fine job.  A well wrapped brisket will continue to "steam" for a while which will help to make it more tender.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## spartanrob

KC5TPY said:


> Looks dang good to me!  Fine job.  A well wrapped brisket will continue to "steam" for a while which will help to make it more tender.  Keep Smokin!
> 
> Danny


Thanks.  Everybody loved it, or was being very polite.  When you say "A well wrapped brisket will continue to "steam"" is that wrapped and left on the smoker or wrapped and pulled off?


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## aggie94

Rob I think when Danny said no need to include the probe he was talking about after he was finished cooking and was rested it.  You can leave the probe in while it is wrapped and on the smoker.  The brisket should continue to slowly cook after it is pulled off while it is wrapped and resting.  Resting does seem to help mine be more tender.  Your brisket has a nice smoke ring and your chicken looks real good too!


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## kc5tpy

Well Caught my Texas Brother.  No probe needed after off the smoker.  Probe should be used as long as the meat is ON the smoker.  I may have missed that because I do not foil while ON the smoker.  I  only foil when I "rest" the brisket.  It will continue to "steam" after off the smoker and double wrapped in foil and a towel or 2.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## spartanrob

Thanks all.  Best part, i can enjoy the leftovers (although not much left) and, I get to try again (and again, and again)


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## mummel

Does one always foil a brisket, or is it like the foil or no foil crowd for pork butts.  I dont foil my butts and they come out with great bark.


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## aggie94

Yes there is quite a debate on using foil or not.  Lately I've been using it as it has helped overcome some other problems I have, such as irregular temperatures and too dry briskets.  The following link for those who haven't seen it Franklin cooks 3 briskets, 1 with foil, 1 with butcher paper, 1 just plain.  I found it very interesting, actually it resulted in a huge discussion at work!


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## mummel

Aggie94 said:


> Yes there is quite a debate on using foil or not.  Lately I've been using it as it has helped overcome some other problems I have, such as irregular temperatures and too dry briskets.  The following link for those who haven't seen it Franklin cooks 3 briskets, 1 with foil, 1 with butcher paper, 1 just plain.  I found it very interesting, actually it resulted in a huge discussion at work!



Very cool vid.  Thanks for this.













Brisket.png



__ mummel
__ Jul 9, 2015


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## mummel

Where do you guys get your butcher paper?


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## southern swine

I inject mine with beef broth, wostershire, soy sauce. Then when I wrap I inject again and put butter and onions in my wrap. I rub it down first with olive oil then sprinkle with garlic powder, salt, pepper, Montreal steak seasoning, then my favorite rub Plow Boys to give it a little heat.


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## southern swine

I think basting helps to with tenseness. Every 45 min. I baste with a oil cider vinegar mop sauce. I cook them this way for Competition. I do pretty well in the brisket category. The last hour I unfoil leaving it in the foil and baste with its own juice. Then wrap back up for a two hour rest.


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## gary s

Are you cooking a brisket or a Roast ?

Gary


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## jeepdiver

Aggie94 said:


> Yes there is quite a debate on using foil or not.  Lately I've been using it as it has helped overcome some other problems I have, such as irregular temperatures and too dry briskets.  The following link for those who haven't seen it Franklin cooks 3 briskets, 1 with foil, 1 with butcher paper, 1 just plain.  I found it very interesting, actually it resulted in a huge discussion at work!




I always  do my naked the entire  time.  I really expected him to not like it, but you could  tell he liked it and his mind was spining a hit


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## hoss103

image.jpg



__ hoss103
__ Jul 11, 2015





 here is how mine turned out. No after heating just smoked slow. Vet juicy not dry I'm doing 3 more tomorrow pics to come.


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## riverturd

Wow! Now this is a good thread. Lot of good info from seasoned vets. My hat off to you Danny for starting. And the rest of ya for all the good input! Is their any way to keep this thread visible for all to see with out having to dig through everything? Maybe a new subtitle, to valuable to let get buried!


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## kc5tpy

Thanks.  I just wanted everyone to be able to smoke a brisket with success.  I just started the thread and offered my method.  The members have jumped on this one and offered terrific advice.  Thank you! to those members who have contributed.  I think it has become a great thread for smoking brisket due to the members participation.  Hope it helps folks.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## humdinger

bmaddox said:


> With the cost of brisket I had to make sure it made it to the house safely.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_1691.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ bmaddox
> __ Jun 19, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This sucker was $95!!!!


This was a hilarious pic, but did anyone else realize the irony of the car seat cover's pattern......?


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## smokin monkey

Need to talk Brisket!

So I am cooking the Brisket for the Second UK SMF meet.

My supply has sent me this, it was rolled and tied.













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__ smokin monkey
__ Jul 14, 2015


















image.jpg



__ smokin monkey
__ Jul 14, 2015


















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__ smokin monkey
__ Jul 14, 2015






So I have drawn a white line on the brisket where I think it needs to be cut? But at what angle as its like a flap, or just leave whole.

Smokin Monkey [emoji]133660013031[/emoji]


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## humdinger

Way to go. I heard those are hard to come by in your area! Should be a hit at the gathering! Not sure about why you would cut it there...are you referring to how you would slice the finished product?


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## smokin monkey

Hi Humdinger, no I am talking before to get the Point & Flat













image.jpg



__ smokin monkey
__ Jul 14, 2015


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## kc5tpy

Hello Smokin Monkey.  As per usual I don't recognise that cut.  It has been trimmed to death.  The point and flat on a U.S. packer  are both one long piece separated a "membrane" for lack of a better word.  Think of a cardboard box rectangle; 12"-14" wide, 16"- 24" long, about 3"-4" deep.  So the flat and point are separated along the length.  Hope that helps.  In my opinion: WITHIN REASON! ( if it is mostly fat then why bother ) the more fat on/in the brisket the easier it is to smoke the brisket and keep it moist. Trim when you slice.  I don't foil.

I have faith in ya buddy.  I am sure we will be enjoying some great brisket.  I know where you are going here.  I don't mind being a guinea pig.  If you can add smoked brisket to the roast pig menu; ££££.  I'll be around and so will Wade.  You know we will help where we can.  GO FOR IT!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## humdinger

I cant tell from here, but it looks like you might have the following;













brisket.jpg



__ humdinger
__ Jul 14, 2015






The underside of that flat might have more point attached since the two sections of meat overlap one another. Below is a link to a tutorial for separating brisket that I think might really help you. If I were going to separate that slab you have, (based on the pic you provided) I would start at the black line and see if there is a fat fault line running down through the meat. Hope this helps.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/brisket-separation-technique


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## jaxrmrjmr

My first try at brisket was a small piece of flat....... tough and dry.

My second try at brisket was a 12 lbs packer....... made a stupid move that cut off the air flow in my smoker and it was like cooking it in a frying pan.  Those pieces that weren't burnt, tasted good.

Third try........Followed Bama BBQ's method for this one.  Smoked a 13.4 lb brisket for 6 hours over hickory and pecan on a 44" Smoke Hollow propane smoker at temps of 290-325.  Fat cap down.  Then I wrapped it up tight in foil and put it in a 325 oven for two more hours.

The pictures tell the tale.  It's the first brisket that I have had that turned out even good and this one turned out really good.  Thanks for starting the thread.  I think the key for me was letting it cook until it was tender.  My probe said 112, but my toothpick said it wasn't done.  I pulled it and smothered it in towels for another 2 hrs.

This time I trusted the toothpick rather than the temp.  I'm used to cooking to temp.  It made for one heck of a brisket.













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__ jaxrmrjmr
__ Aug 1, 2015


















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__ jaxrmrjmr
__ Aug 1, 2015


















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__ jaxrmrjmr
__ Aug 1, 2015


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## southern swine

image.jpg



__ southern swine
__ Aug 2, 2015


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## grill duchess

Thanks to this thread it helped me clear up some things. I purchased a Select 8# whole packer, I was really questioning my cook time. I'll be putting this baby on the smoker in the AM. This will be my first brisket EVER. Lots of great info for a first timer. All trimmed up and seasoned with S&P. I just pray to the brisket gods this baby turns out JUICY.













FB_IMG_1438488082650.jpg



__ grill duchess
__ Aug 2, 2015


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## aggie94

That's looking good Jax!  How is yours going Duchess?


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Good luck Duchess.

Hello Jax.  We normally tell everyone to cook to an IT.  Brisket is a funny old thing.  Each brisket can be different but if you trust the methods the members have posted in this thread you should have continued success.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## inkjunkie

Bama BBQ said:


> I'm from TX. Not sure that matters but I don't have a problem with brisket. I don't buy special meat - just cryovac from Wally World. More than once I've heard "This is the best I've ever had". Here's what I do:
> 
> Trim excess fat especially the hard stuff and even some from the seam.
> 
> Sprinkle with very little Black's Rub (Lockhart TX mecca of brisket)
> 
> Cook fat side down on a 300-350*F WSM until 170*F internal
> 
> Place in disposable pan and cover with foil until a skewer slides thru the meat like a hot knife thru butter
> 
> Rest about 30 min, slice about No 2 pencil thick, and serve.
> 
> That's it. Turns out perfect every time. My last packer was 15# untrimmed. It took 7 hrs. Moist and tender.


I apologize if this has already been covered...when going hot and fast what do you do with the point? Would you suggest I use the plate setter in our Egg when cooking hot and fast or leave it out?


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## southern swine

Separate it when you wrap. Foil both and put em both back on the smoker. That's what I do. Check them till tender. I usually do burnt ends with the point.


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## heymirth

Please google search "better than sex brisket". 
 It's a great , easy to follow recipe and steps.         My first one following that web page made it seem tooooo easy.  
I wanna try the Franklin way next.  
Wish me luck.


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## southern swine

franklin way is salt and pepper, wrap in butcher paper that's it.


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## heymirth

Yes. Has anyone on the board been to Franklins and tried his Brisket?
I wonder how peppery it is.  For as much 50/50 he puts on


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## southern swine

Go to Franklin BBQ he has a brisket video. He smokes his on a big single flow on post oak wood.


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## heymirth

Yes.  I have watched all his videos and I receved his book as a gift.  
 My question is has anyone been there and ate his brisket?  Seems like a lot of salt and pepper


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## rgarretson

I used his video so I knew how to trim my first brisket today but didnt try his rub.


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## aggie94

Well I have been to Franklins, in April, but after waiting an hour left when they told us it would be another 5 hour wait.  As far as how peppery it is that's typical for Central TX and is not unusual.


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## kc5tpy

Hi Folks.  So now we are talking about Franklins.  I don't mean it to sound EXACTLY like this but this thread was not started for Franklins.  I don't even know who he is or why we are discussing him.  This thread was started to help folks produce a good brisket.  There are MANY good techniques, recipes and "how tos" in the thread that CONSISTENTLY produce FINE QUALITY brisket.  Seems some folks are trying to reproduce Franklins brisket without even tasting it.  So because he is "published" he can cook a better brisket than gary s.?  Or oldschoolbbq?  Or etc., etc., etc.  All the contributors to the thread.  Without trying any method or recipe; including Franklins or the other guy....  Mixon?  I don't mean to sound grumpy and if I am out of line I hope a Mod. will feel free to delete this post but the members have gone out of their way to post many methods and recipes on this thread to help folks produce god smoked brisket.  To turn it in to a discussion about these two guys seems a slap in the face to the folks who offered help.  f you want to discuss Franklin, Mixon, or Billy Joe Jim Bob please start another thread and speculate on how they do it.  If you want to produce a quality brisket, start reading.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## bmaddox

KC5TPY said:


> Hi Folks.  So now we are talking about Franklins.  I don't mean it to sound EXACTLY like this but this thread was not started for Franklins.  I don't even know who he is or why we are discussing him.  This thread was started to help folks produce a good brisket.  There are MANY good techniques, recipes and "how tos" in the thread that CONSISTENTLY produce FINE QUALITY brisket.  Seems some folks are trying to reproduce Franklins brisket without even tasting it.  So because he is "published" he can cook a better brisket than gary s.?  Or oldschoolbbq?  Or etc., etc., etc.  All the contributors to the thread.  Without trying any method or recipe; including Franklins or the other guy....  Mixon?  I don't mean to sound grumpy and if I am out of line I hope a Mod. will feel free to delete this post but the members have gone out of there way to post many methods and recipes on this thread to help folks produce god smoked brisket.  To turn it in to a discussion about these two guys seems a slap in the face to the folks who offered help.  f you want to discuss Franklin, Mixon, or Billy Joe Jim Bob please start another thread and speculate on how they do it.  If you want to produce a quality brisket, start reading.  Keep Smokin!
> 
> Danny


I will be starting the Billy Joe Jim Bob thread shortly.

Just kidding, and this is a good point. You have a good thread going here and there is no need to detour into recreating a specific recipe. I know since this thread was started (which I have read every post) my brisket game has improved.


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Thank you.  I just felt it was being Hijacked.  I think we can all learn from this; old and new.  I don't really care how Franklin is doing it.  I know many of you members are feeding friends and family some FANTASTIC brisket served with care and love.  I feel THAT is what SMF is about.  NOT competition.  The recipes and methods are here for all to see.  Friends, family and good food.  Add good health to that and what else is needed in life?  I am sorry if I sounded grumpy.  Have fun guys.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## chef jimmyj

Effort from many " members " have gone into this thread. Let's keep posts to those that either contribute information or ask questions on member techniques posted, as much as possible. While questions regarding non-member techniques is not prohibited, " Is Franklin's Paper Wrapping technique better than Foiling? "... Let's keep " Personal discussion "  to PM's or discussion in the Chat Room...JJ


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## californiasmoke

I just read through this entire thread.  Having ruined 3 briskets I am pretty sure my main problem is not cooking to doneness, and trying to hit a temperature.

I'm cooking on a pellet cooker, on "smoke" it varies from 180 to 225.  It dumps some pellets, makes a nice amount of smoke and climbs to 225, then idles down to about 180-185 and dumps more pellets.  I've done pork shoulders, pork ribs, beef ribs (finally got those right) and chicken and had good success with all of those.  

My first brisket I used a whole packer.  I didn't really know what I was doing on trimming it, and used a commercial rub.  I smoked it for maybe 4 or 5 hours, and when it wasn't to temp (by a long shot) I cranked up the heat to get it to 190.  Burnt on the bottom, tough and dry.

I tried a flat next, marinated in Moore's Marinade (heavy soy flavor) and used some sort of rub.  It was tough and very salty.  Ick, I gag just thinking about it.

The third one I ordered a prime packer from the local butcher, my wife picked it up and it ended up being a select flat.  I tried a commercial injection (I think it was phosphates) and did a better job cooking, but still to temp and not to doneness.  It was edible, sort of.

Now when I say "brisket" my wife says "don't!"

I want to get to a tender, juicy brisket with a nice crust.  I'm pretty sure I could foil it and get it cooked to done-ness but I want to try just going to completion without foil.  I'm going to mop though, I made a nice mop with vinegar and beer and a little Worcestershire sauce.  That really seemed to help the beef ribs I just made.  My experience with my pellet cooker tells me that it takes longer than I'd expect.  I guess the average temp in my pit is around  200*.  I just cooked an 11.5 pound pork butt, it went on last night about 10:30pm.  Starting at 7am today I spritzed it with apple juice every hour, and put it in a foil pan and sealed it up around 1:00.  It hit 195 and really soft doneness about 5pm.  I might have just slightly over-done it, hope not.  But my point is that my cooker is slow and I'm going to have to be patient.

In terms of getting a while packer cut, I don't have many options where I live.  There are two specialty markets, I'll need to call and see what they have...but I won't have a selection of briskets to choose from.  The local costco only carries flats.  I'm not ready to mail order a prime brisket from Snake River or someplace like that, not enough confidence that I won't turn it into shoe leather!


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## sfprankster

Patience is the key to a good brisket.


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## jcbigler

CaliforniaSmoke said:


> I'm cooking on a pellet cooker, on "smoke" it varies from 180 to 225.  It dumps some pellets, *makes a nice amount of smoke and climbs to 225, then idles down to about 180-185* and dumps more pellets.


I think this may be a problem. If your smoker has a setting that is another level higher I would try that. You want to keep a consistent temp, but some variation is normal. But if there is going to be a 20 or 30 degree swing in cooking temp, I would rather see it swing between 220 and 250. 

If it has a next higher setting try that, for the same amount of time and see how it turns out.


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## californiasmoke

Unfortunately this is a 3 setting machine, the next step up swings between 300 and 350.  At those temperatures it doesn't produce nearly as nice smoke as the pellets are burning hotter.

Is brisket that much more sensitive?  Or is it that the lower temperatures are the concern?  My smoker works really well on pork shoulder and pork ribs...and even beef short ribs.  Maybe those cuts are just that much more forgiving.  I'm going to try and see what I can do, hope I don't ruin another big chunk of meat.

I'd like to upgrade my smoker, in part so I can cook just a little hotter.  It took me 18 hours to do a pork shoulder today.  It came out absolutely great, moist and loads of flavor, but a crazy long time to cook.  This is it at about 12 hours.

I won't go off track and talk about smokers I want to buy or build, other than to say I'd like to upgrade my gear this year.













IMG_3050.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 10, 2015


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## jcbigler

For brisket you want the internal temp to get to 195-200 for at least an hour or so so it will break down the collagen, which is what makes it tender. If the smoker is swinging between 180-220 I don't think it's getting hot enough to get the brisket to that temp. 

What make and  model of smoker do you have? maybe someone here has the same kind and can give you some better advice.


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## californiasmoke

I have a Traeger model 70 with a 3 position switch (smoke, med, high).

I could upgrade the controller with one that has an actual temperature setting, but it's 5 or 6 years old and I hate to spend money on it.  I had to replace the firepot, controller and ignition rod last year...in retrospect that would have been the time to get an adjustable controller.  I don't have any problems getting a pork shoulder to 195 internal (or higher if I screw up), but I hear what you're saying about keeping it hot enough for the collagen to break down.

The pictures earlier in the thread with the grey lines were really helpful.  The last flat I did was like that -- with the distinct grey lines.  I didn't realize what I was looking at.  

I'm certainly going to try again with what I have and see if I can do a better job.  I need to replace my Mavericks remote temp probe as it died recently, thinking about one that will plot temp over time so I can get a better handle on what my pit is doing.


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## chef jimmyj

The 180-220 swings are ok, safety wise, 200°F smoking on Brisket is not unusual, but it will take quite a bit longer to reach that 190-200 IT compared to smoking at 225 or higher. Since Packers take awhile anyway, the added time may not be pleasant...JJ


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## kc5tpy

Hi guys.  THANK YOU  to all the folks who have contributed to this thread!  I sincerely hope we have helped folks.

The temp at which you smoke brisket also has to do with the smoker you have in my opinion.  What and where is the heat source?  The "space" in your smoker; ie. can you do indirect cooking.  Think about the space between heat and grill on a UDS versus bullet.  Can you produce smoke at a certain temp?  I would expect electric smokers to produce a drier heat ( ? ) but folks are getting a good product using all sorts of smokers.  When I was young I did the all night smoke but now I like to cook and eat in the same day.  I use higher temps..  I don't worry to much about 350-375 BUT that works in my smokers.

When I started this thread it was to try to understand WHY so many new smokers were having trouble with brisket.  SO many folks smoke a good brisket with no problem so WHY can't others?  THAT was my question.  HOW do we help the new folks do it?  What are we doing that they are missing?  Well I got no REAL answer.  IF you read the entire thread you start to see a pattern.  With slight variations we ALL follow the SAME METHOD!   Read them again.  Yes, rubs, wrap overnight, inject ( all personal choice )  Nah! Nah! but BASICALLY they are the SAME method.  TWO things jump out at me!  NOT ALWAYS THE CASE BUT 1:  Folks with larger smokers or folks who can effectively use indirect cooking don't worry so much about temp and often smoke brisket at higher temps. 2:  The easy one!  Folks are cooking to temp rather than tenderness.  THAT I feel may be partly our fault.  How many times do we tell folks the opposite?  Cook to internal temp!  NOT TIME!  Brisket is the exception!  NOT time OR IT!  I know you may think I am crazy but if you read the thread again those are the only two things that stand out.  What type of smoker are you using; which dictates the cooking temp ( apparently ) and cook to tenderness.  So what works on an offset may not work on a kettle, bullet, electric, or gas.  So maybe we are not asking the right questions when offering help.  Maybe we need to put folks in touch with folks who have their type smoker to offer advice.  Only conclusions I can come up with.  NOT scientific!  Just my opinion folks.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## bmaddox

CaliforniaSmoke said:


> I have a Traeger model 70 with a 3 position switch (smoke, med, high).
> 
> I could upgrade the controller with one that has an actual temperature setting, but it's 5 or 6 years old and I hate to spend money on it.  I had to replace the firepot, controller and ignition rod last year...in retrospect that would have been the time to get an adjustable controller.  I don't have any problems getting a pork shoulder to 195 internal (or higher if I screw up), but I hear what you're saying about keeping it hot enough for the collagen to break down.
> 
> The pictures earlier in the thread with the grey lines were really helpful.  The last flat I did was like that -- with the distinct grey lines.  I didn't realize what I was looking at.
> 
> I'm certainly going to try again with what I have and see if I can do a better job.  I need to replace my Mavericks remote temp probe as it died recently, thinking about one that will plot temp over time so I can get a better handle on what my pit is doing.


You could always smoke it 75% of the way then move it to the oven for more temp control at the end. I know a lot of people will say that isn't true smoking but it will work. If you are trying to hit 195-205 degrees and your smoker is dropping down to 180 then it might never get there. I would smoke it to 170 ish then move it to a 250 degree oven.


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## californiasmoke

Just called my local specialty butcher(http://www.elsalchichero.com/), they have whole briskets grass-fed briskets at $9 a pound.  OUCH.  The guy I talked to said grass fed isn't USDA graded???  That doesn't make sense to me.  For $9 a pound I should be getting prime, right?

I called another local place (http://www.freedommeatlockers.com/), they have Choice for $5.98/lb.  That seems like the way to go (not that I have a lot of options).

I might talk to the butcher at my local grocery store and see if he can order me a USDA Prime whole brisket.  The last time I did that I ended up with just a flat though.


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## foamheart

CaliforniaSmoke said:


> Just called my local specialty butcher(http://www.elsalchichero.com/), they have whole briskets grass-fed briskets at $9 a pound.  OUCH.  The guy I talked to said grass fed isn't USDA graded???  That doesn't make sense to me.  For $9 a pound I should be getting prime, right?
> 
> I called another local place (http://www.freedommeatlockers.com/), they have Choice for $5.98/lb.  That seems like the way to go (not that I have a lot of options).
> 
> I might talk to the butcher at my local grocery store and see if he can order me a USDA Prime whole brisket.  The last time I did that I ended up with just a flat though.


How many briskets have you cooked? Here's my rule on all meats, when you can make a USDA choice taste like a USDA prime then is when you should try a prime. I just don't see the need to spend 150 to 200 on a piece of meat that I have not already mastered the technique.

I can only drool and imagine what a USDA prime brisket would taste like cooked by Gary S. but as to me cooking one, and I have cooks just a few, it would be a waste because I still hit good and better without any consistency.


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## californiasmoke

I've cooked (badly) one whole packer and two flats.  I don't want to spend money on a prime needlessly.  My point was that an ungraded grass fed brisket at $9/lb seemed like a bad deal to me.

I'll almost certainly go with the Choice at about $6/lb -- it's still going to be a $70-$80 piece of meat though.

Separate question: on trimming the fat cap.  I've always read that I should leave 1/4" of fat on top.  On an episode of BBQ Pitmasters I saw them trimming all of the fat off.  I've noticed that when I cook a pork shoulder with the fat cap intact I don't get any visible color into the top of the meat from the smoke or seasoning.  It certainly comes out moist and tender, but I'm tempted to trim my next pork shoulder so I can get more smoke and seasoning into it.

For my next Brisket trial I'll leave the fat intact, but what do others do on this?  The temperature in my Traeger is very even, I don't think I need the fat to protect the meat from direct heat.  I'm also positive that it won't all render off and will keep the smoke out of the top of the meat.

I'm sort of gearing up to try brisket again this weekend.  I'll post updates as to how it goes.  I'm probably going to inject it with beef broth, slather and rub it, and then mop it while it smokes.  I'd prefer not to foil it until I pull it off but I'll play that by ear.  I will use the same slather, rub and mop as I used last weekend on beef short ribs.  They had a great flavor and with a 3-2-0 cook they were absolutely done.


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## foamheart

You realize that very few cook brisket exactly the same. Its all about your making the meat taste how you want it to taste using your preferred method.

The more famous smokers trim, those doing completion trim. Here a great video of a famous brisket Chef trimming.



Do I trim? No. Why? because I don't see the need to spend the time. Cook it all and trim at serving as needed. Why is a well cooked brisket so tastee? Its all that lovely fat that has near rendered out flavoring the muscle of the meat.

Fat side up or down, Chevy or Ford? Black or white? Left or right? I have always heard this but.... "fat side up to continuously baste the meat, fat side down with a fire breather to help protect the meat from flare ups". Or, " Trim the fat so that the rub can get to the meat".  Bottle line, try and see what you like. I'm a fat side up kinda guy and every time I have tried trimming I have been disappointed for one reason or another. Anyone that doesn't like that ambrosia called smoked fat would probably kick a puppie in my book anyway.


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## jcbigler

I've smoked hundreds of briskets in my life. And I pretty much only use the cheapest Wal-Mart or local grocery store cut (currently $2.96/lb), which is choice. I've only cooked a prime a couple of times, and, while good, it wasn't three or four times as good. If I was going to do a contest, or had a VIP client or future in-laws to impress then I would shell out for prime or above.

Certainly when you are learning the techniques it makes more sense to practice on the cheaper cuts of meat. You can improve more by cooking three or four briskets than you will by cooking one that is four times the cost.


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## kc5tpy

Hi Foam!  Long time no speak!  With you on the advice!

Hello ( I'll call you Cal if you don't mind ) Cal.  Here is the deal!  Buy the cheap brisket!  Then, JUST SMOKE IT!  No trimming.  No messing with it.  Salt, pepper and smoke.  That's IT!  No rubs.  No "slather".  No inject.  No nothing!  Just smoke the brisket.  Get THAT part right and THEN add flavours you think you might like.  If a large brisket add more salt and pepper than you think you should because most will drip away with the fat and also will not penetrate the whole brisket.  NO "fancy".  Just smoke the brisket.  Nothing wrong with good smoked meat and only using S&P!  My advice?  Cut it into 4 pieces.  Like a rectangle, down the length and the across the middle.  NOW you have 4 trials at smoking brisket from 1 packer.  Make the thinner end larger pieces than the thicker end.  YES the point end contains more hard fat and cooks differently than the thinner flat end but EXPERIMENT!  4 smokes for the price of 1.  Keep it simple!  Get the meat right and then play with flavours.  Just my opinion.

Danny


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## mummel

What's the diffs prime vs choice?


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## kc5tpy

Hi mummel.  It is a USDA grading which I am sure you know.  It has to do with the percentage of fat to meat as far as I understand it.  So that choice has more fat to meat content than prime.  Which personally I think is a good thing!   Maybe others know better.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## pc farmer

Prime has more marbling than choice.
http://blogs.usda.gov/2013/01/28/what’s-your-beef-–-prime-choice-or-select/


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## kc5tpy

HEY!  That's it Adam!  Marbling!  I knew it was something to do with fat.  Thanks for sorting us out on that.

Danny


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## mummel

But marbelling indicated higher fat no?


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## chef jimmyj

Prime will have the most fat or marbling in the muscle. More marbling means more flavor and tenderness...Grass fed is not graded because it contains a similar amount if not less marbling then Select. A great deal of the marbling in meat comes from the Corn Finishing, feeding corn the last few weeks to fatten the beef up. Grass fed beef don't get Corn finishing...JJ


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## mummel

Logic says corn fed bad, fat bad etc. grass fed good. But the meat with the marbelling cost more?


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## foamheart

mummel said:


> What's the diffs prime vs choice?


One means your children will not go to college. The other, well they will need a few scholarships.


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## jaxrmrjmr

c farmer said:


> Prime has more marbling than choice.
> http://blogs.usda.gov/2013/01/28/what’s-your-beef-–-prime-choice-or-select/


Good to post.  I was looking for the extensive one that covers the odd stuff to explain the grass fed beef not being graded.

All major slaughter houses are inspected, thus the "USDA inspection" stamp that is on the carcass.  This is for public safety, cleanliness standards, etc.

However, having beef "graded" is a choice - no pun intended. If the slaughter house chooses to to have it graded then they have to pay for that.  They usually choose to have this done as a higher grading demands a higher price. 

But.  There is always a "but".  Some cattle come in and they know that they will not meet a reasonable grading so they don't even pay for it.  Think 20 year old milk cow instead of plump, juicy steer.  70% of the beef we eat come from old milk cows - not beef cattle.

I grew up thinking there were 3 levels of grading - prime, choice, select.  I was big time wrong!  There are many levels below select.  That's why you will actually see some lower end retailers advertising that their meat is "select grade".  When old milk cows come in, they don't pay for grading.  The typically call it "utility" or "ungraded" if they are selling the tenderloin sections and such but don't mention it when it's ground beef.  Religiously slaughtered animals (such as Halal) are usually not graded either.  Muslims automatically buy the non-graded Halal beef just like certain people automatically buy the "grass-fed" beef.  "Grass-fed" means nothing other that it does not meet the criteria for being called "grain fed".  Twenty years ago, "grain fed" was what every wanted because it is typically higher graded.  Today, ''grass fed" beef is about like people that want eggs from free range chickens raised in free range pens.  Go figure.

Just a little FYI from a guy who used to raise beef cattle.  BTW, there are two great beef deals out there on the market that most people don't know about.  1) a filet mignon graded "utility" is still tender and tasty if cooked no more than MR.  2) a cut called the "hanging tender" or "hanger steak" is very tasty and very tender.  I love this cut for kabobs.


----------



## pc farmer

mummel said:


> Logic says corn fed bad, fat bad etc. grass fed good. But the meat with the marbelling cost more?



You are opening a can of worms here.


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## jaxrmrjmr

mummel said:


> Logic says corn fed bad, fat bad etc. grass fed good. But the meat with the marbelling cost more?


Research the difference between "fat" and "marbling".  Yes, people pay more for well marbled meat.  No, people do not pay more for fat covered meat.


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## jcbigler

mummel said:


> Logic says corn fed bad, fat bad etc. grass fed good. But the meat with the marbelling cost more?



I think it depends on what you are going to do with the meat.

Brisket, shoulder clod, and beef ribs, anything you are cooking low and slow you probably want corn finished beef with more fat. For steaks, fillet and roasts when you cook hot and fast you probably want leaner beef with less fat since there is less time for the fat to render out than there is in low and slow smoking. 

Psychology is another big part of it. Some people feel better about themselves if they think the cattle were allowed to live free and eat grass for their whole lives; rather than being kept cooped up in pens and fed corn or grain for the express purpose of making their meat taste better.


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## bob33

Smoked my first brisket this past weekend.  cut off the extra hard fat;  Used a tangy dry rub I found on the internet; turned the smoker at 210F at 8 PM (Masterbuilt Electric (new));  used up about 3 lbs of hickory chips over next 4.5 hours;  and around 9 AM (next day) packed the briskets (4 in all) into tinfoil pans with lids (here's where I put a little ketchup, barbecue, slightly tangy, spiced mop - not lots, just a light coating) and then turned up heat to 250F until 2 PM.    They turned out fantastic  YUM.  The only problem I had was with the amount of juice that came out the meat during the first 4-5 hours of smoking - WOW, couldn't believe how much water came out.  I was fearful that the meat would be really dry.  It is not dry but a little of that moisture would have added to the texture of the cooked brisket.    OVERALL, it was a success and I plan to do it again.


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## jeepdiver

Just picked up a prime whole packer from costco today for 3.98 lb.  Won't be able to smoke it for a while so into the freezer it went, but have had a hard time finding packers here in Denver so had to grab it while I could.

Now I just need a free weekend which won't happen until after Labor Day


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## noboundaries

Wow, Prime for $3.98/lb.  That's unheard of where I shop.  Prices for Prime are up around $10/lb if they even have it at my Costco. 

I did a hot n fast smoke on a 5.2lb Choice grade point today that looked like Prime.  It is resting as I type.  It was $4.08/lb at Winco.  Wrapped at 156F IT and three hours.  Done to 200F IT in 4.5 hours.  We'll see how it turns out.     

Turned out GREAT!  Juicy and tender, but it is the point.  Kind of hard to screw up a point. 













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__ noboundaries
__ Aug 14, 2015


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## jeepdiver

It was untrimmed so had a good bit of fat, but was better than the 9-15 /lb all of the butcher shops around here want for trimmed brisket. Walmart has choice for 3.00 a lb, but they usually only have 1 or 2 which loom to be over 50% fat


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## californiasmoke

Just back from the meat market with a 14.9 pound whole untrimmed brisket.  $4.98/pound for choice.  Not great, but the best I can do around here.

I'm going to trim it later, and I'm going to inject it as I have a really long, slow cook in front of me.  I'm basing my plan on what I've read here, and what I know about my cooker.  I'm convinced that I have to inject and mop or it will be dry by the time it's done.  My guess is that it will be at least 16 hours, I'm not decided if I'm going to foil it -- I'll have to make a judgement call on that later in the cook.  I'd really like to get a substantial bark, but we'll see how the moistness look at the halfway point in the cook.

I'm going to use Myron Mixon's directions for the injections and rub.  Since I'm injecting with broth made from beef base and au jus base I suspect it's a little salty, so going with his rub too (which appears to be lower in salt) should be safe.

I'm sure I'm overthinking this, but I want to do everything I can to make sure this is a successful cook.  I'll post pics as I go and let you know how it works out.


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## californiasmoke

Just put the brisket on at 10:30.  Lightly trimmed, injected with beef broth and rubbed with mostly black pepper (a little salt/garlic/onion/chili powder in the rub).  

Three little loaf pans of water, and a couple of scraps of brisket around the thinest part of the flat to give that part a little extra protection.  I'll pull those off in the morning.  I'm tracking the temperature on the meat and the smoker so we'll see what happens.

I need a bigger smoker, this just barely fits!













IMG_3059.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


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## jaxrmrjmr

How's it coming along California Smoke?


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## californiasmoke

So I just checked it for the first time at 6:30am after 8 hours on the smoker.  I refilled the water pans, gave it a quick mop and put it back to bead.  I't got a long way to go still, but so far it looks good.  I'll mop about every hour from here, quickly so I don't loose too much momentum on the cook.  I'm guessing that it will be late afternoon before it's done, but I could be surprised.  I'm not sure about foiling it yet, I probably should, maybe around noon.

You can see the temperature has been fluctuating between 210 and 230 -- a little hotter than I thought, and not as much variation as the gauge on the smoker seems to indicate.  The meat temp has continued to climb a a very steady pace even so, and doesn't seem to have hit the stall yet.













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__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


















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__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


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## kc5tpy

Hang in buddy!  Lookin good!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## floridasteve

CaliforniaSmoke said:


> You can see the temperature has been fluctuating between 210 and 230 -- a little hotter than I thought, and not as much variation as the gauge on the smoker seems to indicate.  The meat temp has continued to climb a a very steady pace even so, and doesn't seem to have hit the stall yet.



What are you using to give you those graphs?  I like!


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## californiasmoke

It's an iGrill2 hooked up to my iPad.  My older Mavericks died recently so I had to buy a new toy.


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## floridasteve

Going to chech that out!  Thanks! :points:


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## californiasmoke

Still rolling along, the brisket hit 190 a little before noon, I checked with a toothpick and it was still tough.  Smoker is running a little hotter now (it's 90+ degrees outside), so we're cooking in the 250-260 range.  I didn't see a stall on this cook...I was sort of expecting it.  I'm guessing that I'm roughly an hour from being done (13.5 hours into the cook right now), so I should have plenty of time to get this finished and rested for 3 or 4 hours before dinner.

Starting to think about some sides.  Maybe mac-n-cheese and slaw.  Might make Franklin's espresso bbq sauce.


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## californiasmoke

Forgot to add the graph...  The dip in smoker temperature a little before 10, and right at the end of the top graph just after 11:30 are when I opened the smoker to mop.  Even though the pit temperature drops 30 degrees it doesn't seem to affect the rate of the meat cooking.  













IMG_0049.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


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## californiasmoke

The brisket (at least at the probe) is 202.  It's soft and jiggly (passes the toothpick test) everywhere except the leading 2" of the flat.  I'm going to give it a little more time and see if the flat gets better.  No foil, seems like it's still juicy.


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## floridasteve

The flat, especially the front edge, should get done first.


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## californiasmoke

Not working out that way for me -- I would have thought that too.  Maybe it's overdone?  I'll check it again in a few minutes.  It seems to be getting done-er every time I check it (I started probe checking at 180).


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## californiasmoke

205, and the flat is definitely softening up more.  I'm concerned the rest of it will be too soft, but I'm going to stick to it and go for doneness on the flat.  I've got it situated so the point is angled toward the back of the smoker where I know it'a a bit hotter.  I suspect the temperature difference between the front and the back is why the flat isn't quite done.  It's gotta be really close now.


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## californiasmoke

OK, it's done.  10:30 PM last night on, 3:45 this afternoon off.  17.25 hours.  I was worried that I'd gone past "done" on the flat, although I started checking around 180 degrees with a toothpick like this thread recommended.  The temp climbed to 205 and stayed there for at least 2.5 hours.  I checked it every 30 minutes, and mopped it.  Finally the toothpick slid in easily.  Wow.  I pulled it, put it in a foil pan, and stuck it in a cooler layered in towels.  I'm going to let it rest for 3 hours, then make burnt ends and slices.

I already made some slaw from Franklin's book (w.o.w., very tasty), I'm going to make some mac-n-cheese and maybe Franklin's espresso bbq sauce for the side.













IMG_0050.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


















IMG_3065.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


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## southern swine

We need to see slices. Wanna see the smoke ring.


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## californiasmoke

Just finished dinner.  I made my mac and cheese (which is always a winner), Franklin's slaw and espresso BBQ sauce (the brisket didn't need sauce though).  The brisket was GREAT.  My wife who has hated and ridiculed my brisket in the past had seconds.  It was tender, 1/4" slices supported their own weight but pulled apart easily.  The fat was buttery, loads of flavor everywhere in the meat.  The flat was good, the point was sort of amazing.  Better that I've had at popular BBQ places around here.  I'll be doing this again, thanks for your help making this one a winner!













IMG_3066.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


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## southern swine

You did a good job pat yourself on the back. Nice smoke ring. Looks Great.


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## jcbigler

That looks great. Good job. 

17.5 hours is a long smoke. Glad you made it through.


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## aggie94

Great looking brisket CaliforniaSmoke!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






    If the wife likes it you know its good!


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## dieseldare

Got this just a week and a half ago...  USDA PRIME.













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__ dieseldare
__ Aug 18, 2015


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## humdinger

That's awesome deisel. I did one back around August 1st. I was so happy when Costco started carrying Prime, especially at that price. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/232126/rowdy-rousey-brisket-prime


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Well GO FOR IT  waiting for the Qview!  Looks Great!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## jaxrmrjmr

dieseldare said:


> Got this just a week and a half ago...  USDA PRIME.
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> __ dieseldare
> __ Aug 18, 2015


We have a Costco, but I've never seen prices that cheap on PRIME brisket.  I did, however, find an awesome package of prime filet mignon mis-marked as top sirloin.  $9.99/lbs versus about $19.99/lbs.  Just happened to be when I was buying steaks for my son's high school graduation, so he was as happy as I was!













IMG_1721.JPG



__ jaxrmrjmr
__ Aug 20, 2015


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## jeepdiver

JaxRmrJmr said:


> We have a Costco, but I've never seen prices that cheap on PRIME brisket.  I did, however, find an awesome package of prime filet mignon mis-marked as top sirloin.  $9.99/lbs versus about $19.99/lbs.  Just happened to be when I was buying steaks for my son's high school graduation, so he was as happy as I was!
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> __ jaxrmrjmr
> __ Aug 20, 2015



That looks a lot more like sirloin than filet to me.  Most filet, even prime is not marbled like that.  The small top sirloin steaks like that are great eating though. Use to get them for 3 buck a lb about 10 years ago in Fl, don't see them here in Denver much though


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## demosthenes9

JeepDiver said:


> That looks a lot more like sirloin than filet to me. Most filet, even prime is not marbled like that. The small top sirloin steaks like that are great eating though. Use to get them for 3 buck a lb about 10 years ago in Fl, don't see them here in Denver much though


have to disagree.   Tenderloins are definitely marbled, Prime more so than choice.













beeffillet.jpg?lr=t&bw=450



__ demosthenes9
__ Aug 20, 2015


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## jarjarchef

JeepDiver said:


> That looks a lot more like sirloin than filet to me.  Most filet, even prime is not marbled like that.  The small top sirloin steaks like that are great eating though. Use to get them for 3 buck a lb about 10 years ago in Fl, don't see them here in Denver much though




They do sell a top sirloin filet. It is way cheaper and looks just like a filet mignon if trimmed. They are a little tougher and have good flavor. We use them a lot for groups that want a steak dinner, but can not afford filet mignon or NY Strip. 

Marbling is good, chunks of fat is bad. The marbling is what gives you a nice juicy mouth feel, the chunks of fat is what ends up on the side of the plates.


This was a wagyu NY Strip. You will see the traditional fat cap on the outer edge, but you will also see the fat that is marbled throughout. The marbling is the biggest reason wagyu is so sought after.

 I cooked it the reverse seer method, it was probably the best steak I have ever tasted. 












20150622_091030.jpg



__ jarjarchef
__ Aug 21, 2015


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## mummel

Wow that meat looks good. Ever tried sous vide?


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## jaxrmrjmr

Could be and I definitely can see the similarities in the picture, but I'm pretty sure they were filet mignon after eating them.  We eat top sirloin more than any other steak cut because of the price.  Well, that and what our store calls a "first cut strip".

I was talking to the wife that day and said that I thought they were probably put there on purpose and meant for someone else - maybe a meat market guy helping out a friend.  I say this because I have never before or since seen that cut at Costco.  It was the only pack there and it was buried under a stack of filets.  My wife hates it, but I usually dig through everything available when buying steaks.


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## jarjarchef

mummel said:


> Wow that meat looks good. Ever tried sous vide?



Yes. I like it, but prefer in the smoker over in the SousVide. 



JaxRmrJmr said:


> Could be and I definitely can see the similarities in the picture, but I'm pretty sure they were filet mignon after eating them.  We eat top sirloin more than any other steak cut because of the price.  Well, that and what our store calls a "first cut strip".
> 
> I was talking to the wife that day and said that I thought they were probably put there on purpose and meant for someone else - maybe a meat market guy helping out a friend.  I say this because I have never before or since seen that cut at Costco.  It was the only pack there and it was buried under a stack of filets.  My wife hates it, but I usually dig through everything available when buying steaks.



Yes you could be onto something..... I have seen the buddy system before. I too like to did around for what I want.


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## kc5tpy

STOP IT!!  STOP IT!!  NO MORE PICTURES!!!!  I would KILL to get that sort of beef!!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   According to a restaurant waiter here a ribeye is a "fatty cut of beef".  ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????  It does help keep the price down.  He MUST have only said that because they have received complaints!  WT*?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   What do I usually get here??  RED MEAT!  ZERO marbling!  Trimmed to death and NO connective tissue on big joints.  SO!  Here is a chunk of pure red meat with NO marbling or fat.  Smoke that!  That will have you dancing a jig!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## smocan

Here's my biggest brisket yet: 17 3/4lb. I didn't trim it as the fat cap was pretty thin, about 3/8". I call him Mungo













image.jpg



__ smocan
__ Aug 23, 2015


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## kc5tpy

Hello Smocan.  Good luck with Mungo.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## smocan

Here's mungo before getting wrapped and put in a cooler. It cooked fast (6hrs)but once I cut the flat I figured it out. I get local small farm grown beef and pork from my supplier and due to that the meat if very lean. I left an almost 1/2" fat cap and that kept it moist 












image.jpg



__ smocan
__ Aug 30, 2015


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## rabbithutch

dieseldare said:


> Got this just a week and a half ago...  USDA PRIME.
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> __ dieseldare
> __ Aug 18, 2015



Where do you get PRIME brisket?  The best I can do here is Select.


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## bgosnell151

Bought a brisket last week, but wasn't able to cook it immediately, so had to freeze it.  Is that going to negatively affect it?


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## cracker1397

bgosnell151 said:


> Bought a brisket last week, but wasn't able to cook it immediately, so had to freeze it.  Is that going to negatively affect it?


I didn't notice any negative affects from freezing mine.  I just gave it several days in the fridge to thaw out slowly and then cooked it.  It was delicious.


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## demosthenes9

bgosnell151 said:


> Bought a brisket last week, but wasn't able to cook it immediately, so had to freeze it. Is that going to negatively affect it?


Won't affect it one bit.  If it's cryovac'ed, you can freeze it for years.


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## mummel

Wow great price at Costco. That nationwide?


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## bgosnell151

Thanks all... Prolly going to get it out of the freezer for Labor Day


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## lemans

What is the smallest packer you can buy?


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## kalfish

I smoked 3 15#ers for a company BBQ the other day. A tremendous hit with my colleagues.

I trim the fat and add the dry rub the night before.  Rub is Cayenne, black pepper, salt, and paprika.  I wrap in foil and put it in the fridge overnight.

I use Weber Domes. Light the charcoal in one side of the Weber and put the meat, fat side up, on the other side on foil when the fire is ready.  I add Mesquite chunks (soaked) when I add the meat.  I check the temp every 30-45 minutes, jsut be lifting the dome enough to add more coals and wood if necessary.

I've been cooking Brisket like this for over 20 years. Never had a bad one.  Meat comes off Juicy and tender. Serve with the usual sides.

This is a pic of a 12#er I cooked for our annual Fourth of July family and neighbor BBQ.

Am I the only one who still uses the Weber Dome?  Best smoker ever IMHO.













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__ kalfish
__ Aug 30, 2015


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## kc5tpy

Hello Lemans.  Depends on the size of the cow.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Just teasin.  What do ya think guys; somewhere between 12 and 17 lbs?  Usually around 13 - 15 lbs. from what I remember.  TOO large?  No problem. It looks like a rectangle.  So cut it in half length wise then again crosswise.  NOW you have four.  Four chances to fire up the smoker!  Two will be thicker and two thinner but use the same method.  Cook to tenderness.  The thicker ends will fight you all the way but will get tender.  " Patience Grasshopper"!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Brisket is done when it is done and not on a timer.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## aggie94

See a lot of packers at 13lbs which is what I usually get, but have seen them down to 10 lbs.


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## xcoachx

I woke up this morning and threw a 4# brisket (flat) in my smoker at 8 o'clock. Took it out at 6:15, just in time for dinner with the family at 6:30. Some kick ass pasta salad my wife made, sweet and hot beans, and smoked brisket.

Bare with me this is my first post.
How it started..... Friday at work I couldn't get bbqing off my head. Saturday, woke up wanting to smoke some meat.... Lasted all day but had prior engagements. Sunday, had my morning coffee and cigarette then left to get some meats and propane for my smoker. 2 racks of pork loin ribs, 1 pork shoulder (Boston butt), and 1 four pound brisket (flat). Fired the smoker and had some ribs.

Monday, woke up fired my smoker and applied the rub to the brisket while waiting for temp.

8:00 - 225 smoker temp reached, pecan chips loaded and brisket goes in (unadulterated fat cap up) until 160 IT.

12:30 - At 160 IT brisket is placed in foil pan, mopped with sauce and covered with foil, then placed back in at 225 smoker temp. Until brisket IT reaches 205-207.(I turned up my heat in the last hour to 300 to finish.)

5:15 - At 205-207 brisket IT I turned off my smoker and let it rest inside for 1 hour. (Gradual cool down to 150 smoker temp).

6:15 - pulled brisket from smoker and sliced. (Fat cap peeled right off)

Total time cooking at 225 was 8 hrs. +1 hr at 300.( 9 hrs. Total with 1 hr. Rest.)

In truth I wasn't going to post anything (join for that matter) about my brisket because I've never had a successful brisket before today. I have been lurking here gaining knowledge and give all credit for my success today to the members of this forum. I don't know why I decided to attempt a brisket, maybe it's because I've felt it was my nemesis of meats, if you can pull off a brisket you can BBQ anything. I wanted to pull off a brisket.

Anyways that's my addition to this helpful thread. I couldn't have had a success without the knowledge in this thread.

Thank you!
xcoachx


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## inkjunkie

Lemans said:


> What is the smallest packer you can buy?


First one I bought was 21+ pounds.


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## gary s

Congrats on the smoke, You know you have to post pictures !!!     Everybody like pictures

Gary


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## mphillips55

Hi Everyone. I bought my old country wrangler about a month ago. Ive smoked two briskets on it and now I think i could use some advice.

I know part (most?) of the problem is the temp. I have a cheap thermometer that I stuck in the hole midway up the door. I have a much better one that I need to drill a hole for closer to the grate. I just havent drilled the hole yet. I can keep the temp steady, but I am basing my adjustments on the crappy thermometer that I dont think is accurate. So before I smoke anything else I'm going to make sure to install the new thermometer.

I also have had an issue with cooking fat side up - the underside gets dried and crispy. Should i flip the brisket or just cook fat side down? is this something that you guys have seen? is it because the temp is too hot inside the cook chamber?

The other main problem ive had is judging doneness. Can someone roughly detail how a brisket will feel at the various points of a smoke? does it get tender and then tighten up and then get tender again? basically if a brisket feels/looks dry on the smoker does it need to cook more to get tender or will it just keep drying out if left in the cooker?

thanks guys Im sure ill have more questions soon. I had a blast smoking the briskets ive done by the way. and they were both completely devoured by my family/friends, but they weren't quite good enough for me.


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## lemans

Take a toothpick if it goes into the brisket like butter hen you are there. But I use an instant read thermometer so at 205 I pull it!


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## xcoachx

mphillips55 said:


> Hi Everyone. I bought my old country wrangler about a month ago. Ive smoked two briskets on it and now I think i could use some advice.
> 
> I know part (most?) of the problem is the temp. I have a cheap thermometer that I stuck in the hole midway up the door. I have a much better one that I need to drill a hole for closer to the grate. I just havent drilled the hole yet. I can keep the temp steady, but I am basing my adjustments on the crappy thermometer that I dont think is accurate. So before I smoke anything else I'm going to make sure to install the new thermometer.
> 
> I also have had an issue with cooking fat side up - the underside gets dried and crispy. Should i flip the brisket or just cook fat side down? is this something that you guys have seen? is it because the temp is too hot inside the cook chamber?
> 
> The other main problem ive had is judging doneness. Can someone roughly detail how a brisket will feel at the various points of a smoke? does it get tender and then tighten up and then get tender again? basically if a brisket feels/looks dry on the smoker does it need to cook more to get tender or will it just keep drying out if left in the cooker?
> 
> thanks guys Im sure ill have more questions soon. I had a blast smoking the briskets ive done by the way. and they were both completely devoured by my family/friends, but they weren't quite good enough for me.



The problem I was having was thinking I was drying it out then pulling it out too early. From what I've determined after reading through this thread was to be patient and let it get up to temp.... 205 internal temp. That's when the connective tissue breaks down and there is where you get your moistness. I always thought that it would get even drier if I left it on, so I would take it off too early.

Yes it does get firm then at about 205 IT it loosens up beautifully. Patience was what I was lacking with my brisket.

Regarding the crispness.... You may have your meat too close to the heat source, you may try raising the meat up inside your smoker, if your not looking for bark on your brisket you could wrap in foil at 160 IT. Or, since the fat cap isn't overly important for the moisture I would try fat cap down... Use it to my advantage kinda like a heat shield. I've read that people smoke brisket anywhere between 225-350 smoker temp both with good results as long as it reached 205 IT.

Gary, I will take pics on my next round. I wasn't even a member until after I finished my brisket. It came out so good I had to join and let yall know I couldn't have done if without this thread and the people sharing their knowledge.
xcoachx


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## demosthenes9

xcoachx said:


> The problem I was having was thinking I was drying it out then pulling it out too early. From what I've determined after reading through this thread was to be patient and let it get up to temp.... 205 internal temp. That's when the connective tissue breaks down and there is where you get your moistness. I always thought that it would get even drier if I left it on, so I would take it off too early.
> 
> Yes it does get firm then at about 205 IT it loosens up beautifully. Patience was what I was lacking with my brisket.
> 
> Regarding the crispness.... You may have your meat too close to the heat source, you may try raising the meat up inside your smoker, if your not looking for bark on your brisket you could wrap in foil at 160 IT. Or, since the fat cap isn't overly important for the moisture I would try fat cap down... Use it to my advantage kinda like a heat shield. I've read that people smoke brisket anywhere between 225-350 smoker temp both with good results as long as it reached 205 IT.
> 
> Gary, I will take pics on my next round. I wasn't even a member until after I finished my brisket. It came out so good I had to join and let yall know I couldn't have done if without this thread and the people sharing their knowledge.
> xcoachx


One problem here is that not all briskets are done at 205.  Some might be spot on, but some might be undercooked while others might be overcooked at 205.   use the probe test.


----------



## xcoachx

Demosthenes9 said:


> One problem here is that not all briskets are done at 205.  Some might be spot on, but some might be undercooked while others might be overcooked at 205.   use the probe test.



I agree 100% with this post.

Mine just happend to pass the test at 205 when I probed it..... But I waited till 205 is my point, I always took it off early because it just seemed to get firmer as it cooked and I was unaware that at the higher temp Internal temp is when the connective tissues start to break down adding moisture. I needed to be patient and trust the posts that I read here. Patience is the one overwhelming thing I needed to add to make my brisket successful. Patience is key. 

And I probably shouldn't be so specific with the temp when I was describing when the connective tissue breaks down adding moisture like I did in my post. You are absolutely correct that not all brisket is the same and I humbly thank you for correcting me.

xcoachx


----------



## rabbithutch

@Danny!

How does a guy from South Texas get to Newark on Trent, UK?  You might have addressed this and I missed it, but seems to me there might be a good tale in that situation.  Do you work in oil bidness?


----------



## demosthenes9

xcoachx said:


> I agree 100% with this post.
> 
> Mine just happend to pass the test at 205 when I probed it..... But I waited till 205 is my point, I always took it off early because it just seemed to get firmer as it cooked and I was unaware that at the higher temp Internal temp is when the connective tissues start to break down adding moisture. I needed to be patient and trust the posts that I read here. Patience is the one overwhelming thing I needed to add to make my brisket successful. Patience is key.
> 
> And I probably shouldn't be so specific with the temp when I was describing when the connective tissue breaks down adding moisture like I did in my post. You are absolutely correct that not all brisket is the same and I humbly thank you for correcting me.
> 
> xcoachx


All good coach.


----------



## alamojoe

Even though I said I would never smoke another brisket . .I found a huge prime brisket at my grocery store on sale for $3.15 per lb.  As I was putting it in my cart, I was telling myself I'd sous-vide it or grind it for burgers . . but I think I knew all along I was going to try and smoke it, lol.  

Anyway - a picture from early in this thread:













brisketpull.jpg



__ alamojoe
__ Sep 13, 2015






This is exactly what my brisket looks like when it's done . .but mine is dry!!!  Every time I make brisket it's tender and pretty tasty . .but somewhat dry.  I live in San Antonio, which is not really a BBQ town.  My brisket compares favorably to most of what I can get around town but sucks compared to what I can get up in Lockhart (Black's is my favorite).  

What I do is pretty standard . .smoke it at around 250 until it hits around 170, wrap it until it hits around 200 and then start probing.   I typically let it rest for at least an hour in the cooler, too.  But every time I make it .. it's good .. but not really amazing and definitely not worth the trouble/expense.  My chuckies come out 10x better.    

Anybody know how to achieve that "magical" brisket?  Where the crust is crunchy, the meat tastes almost like a ribeye and the fat just tastes like beef butter?


----------



## californiasmoke

I'm no expert, but I finally got one done that I thought was pretty amazing.  I mostly followed Myron Mixon's approach in terms of injection and rub, but cooked it low and slow (around 225) and mopped it.  No foil until I pulled it to rest.  Next time I'll probably foil it to get the moisture a little better.  The first 3 or four slices off the flat could have had more juice, but the rest was really nice.  I think my cook is detailed earlier in the thread.  The brisket had a great, rich taste.  The point was magical.  The mop was important to keep it from drying out.  I've only had brisket at a couple of bbq places, and this was way better than either of those.

For me, probing the flat for doneness was the part I was missing (and allowing enough time to get it done on my cooker).  This thread really helped me.













IMG_3066.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


----------



## alamojoe

Injecting is something I've never tried - your brisket looks awesome, though.  I'll read up on Mixon's method and maybe give it a go - thanks!


----------



## aggie94

CaliforniaSmoke great looking brisket!  Nice charred outside with a juicy inside.


----------



## caliman126

Smoking in general the little tips and tricks u've seen and used in gneral are fat side up allows the run off to baste the meat. Make sure to let the meat heat up out of the fridge before placing in the smoker. I usually set it out 1-2 hrs before. When your done "cooking" wrap the meat un foil then a blanket and place in a cooler to keep it insulated and allow it to relax for an hr or 2.


----------



## cowboy11

For what it is worth I make sure that I always smoke at an average pit temperature of 250 degrees, more or less. I watch my temps but if they spike, up or down, I do not worry too  much as long as it is not for a prolonged time.

I subscribe to the "if your looking your not cooking" ideology but I am trying to learn how to cook over an open fire, before all the different smokers and accessories we have now that make it easier. I figure if my grandfather could cook without a smoker and Maverick; I should be able to at least match his success with all the stuff I have.

When my Thermopop slides in and out easy and internal temp is 197-200 I pull it; wrap in foil with AU JUS if you have it, a towel, and put in a cooler to rest for two hours. 

IMHO the finished internal temperature is not as important as the tenderness test with the temperature probe.

As to meat selection I use cryovac briskets and use the shake method to figure out which brisket I want( hold meat vertical, centered on the edges and shake to see how much the brisket flexes. Ability to flex is suppose to have something to do with fat content; too much fat and it will be stiff as a board.

I use different woods but prefer mesquite and pecan.

I tried fat side up and down and have good results both ways. Seasoning is basic SPOG. Keep notes.

When I was first smoking briskets I would try to keep everything the same and only change one or two things a cook.

I have had a lot of different pits over the years and some leaked badly and needed mods, others worked fine. I am presently using an Old Smokey and have had better success than I expected. It is great for families with small yards and is portable enough to go to the park, camping, or beach. I did love my Weber bullet smoker but it moved on to my Daughter and Son-in Law's house.

Don't give up, it could take a while. Most smokes of any kind are meant to make the family happy so find what y'all like best. 

Let us know how you do and be happy with smoking. Don't let it beat you up. I still get a tough brisket now and then, so I do what any Texan does; have another cold one, cube the meat and make Chile or stew and cornbread or both.

Sorry about the book


----------



## alamojoe

I finally smoked a prime brisket I'd been hanging on to for a while. I don't really know what I did different but this one came out really good. The only thing I did different was in the trimming.  I watched Franklin's video on how to trim a brisket and that resulted in a much better trimmed brisket than I usually start with.  

Other than that I smoked it low - 225-250. I didn't open the lid until it was time to start probing - around 14 hours in.  When it was done, I wrapped it in foil and did the cooler thing for a couple of hours.  

I would say, relative to my "ideal brisket" it had about 9/10 tenderness, 8/10 moistness, 8/10 flavor.  That is actually pretty dang good.  By my rating system, 95% of commercial brisket is not that good.  

My family usually moans when I smoke a brisket because, in the past, the results haven't been that good.  This time they ate it up and I think I probably even have permission to smoke another one sometime, lol.


----------



## aggie94

Congratulations Joe!  I consider that a wonderful success!


----------



## kc5tpy

Hi.  Good job Joe.  Once you know the process it usually just takes a couple to get you up and running.  Can only get better from here.  Man I wish you could send me some Mexican food.  I really miss that.  Mom lives on the far southside, off 181 near 1604.  Glad it turned out good for ya buddy.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## oldpro1946

I've attempted my last brisket.  Made terrible brisket flats so I finally tried a packer to no success.  Smoked it for 5 1/2 hrs at 250 to 164, wrapped and let go til 195.  Was done early so I wrap the foiled brisket in a towel and put in oven at 100 degrees.  Had to leave it there for about 3 hrs.  Dry, dry dry.  Falling apart but dry!  Tried to follow Aaron Franklin's video and tried to use all the suggestions of people on this forum.  Woke up at 2am had it on at 4am.  Smoked for a total of 10hrs.  A lot of work for lousy brisket.  I"m done with brisket.


----------



## inkjunkie

oldpro1946 said:


> I've attempted my last brisket.  Made terrible brisket flats so I finally tried a packer to no success.  Smoked it for 5 1/2 hrs at 250 to 164, wrapped and let go til 195.  Was done early so I wrap the foiled brisket in a towel and put in oven at 100 degrees.  Had to leave it there for about 3 hrs.  Dry, dry dry.  Falling apart but dry!  Tried to follow Aaron Franklin's video and tried to use all the suggestions of people on this forum.  Woke up at 2am had it on at 4am.  Smoked for a total of 10hrs.  A lot of work for lousy brisket.  I"m done with brisket.


This is why I did a Tri Tip today....


----------



## alexhortdog95

oldpro1946 said:


> I've attempted my last brisket.  Made terrible brisket flats so I finally tried a packer to no success.  Smoked it for 5 1/2 hrs at 250 to 164, wrapped and let go til 195.  Was done early so I wrap the foiled brisket in a towel and put in oven at 100 degrees.  Had to leave it there for about 3 hrs.  Dry, dry dry.  Falling apart but dry!  Tried to follow Aaron Franklin's video and tried to use all the suggestions of people on this forum.  Woke up at 2am had it on at 4am.  Smoked for a total of 10hrs.  A lot of work for lousy brisket.  I"m done with brisket.




NO NO NO...Don't give up man!
You can beat the brisket, don't let the brisket beat you!

Why did you put it in the oven?!?  It was done, man!  Leave it wrapped up and it would have been fine!


----------



## californiasmoke

I ruined several myself, plus had to endure a lot of good natured teasing from my wife about the "awful brisket".

Don't put it in an oven, at least not with the heat on.  When it gets down, wrap it and put it in a cooler with some old towels for a couple of hours.

Also, mine rode at over 200 degrees internal for a long time before it got tender.  Don't cook brisket to temperature, cook it until it's tender by probing the flat.  A toothpick should slide in easily.  Look at the chart from my cook below, you can see how long it was "at temperature" on the bottom graph before it actually got tender.  

The only think I'm going to do differently next time is wrap it part way through the cook, the thinnest part of the brisket was not as moist and I'd like, although a few slices in was great.  And the point was magic.  I might try trimming the fat closer on the point next time to make burnt ends...but I might ruin it too.  













IMG_0050.jpg



__ californiasmoke
__ Aug 16, 2015


----------



## lemans

You may have had a brisket with a very thin end on the flat.  Next time trim it off before the cook.  Look at the meat and say is this going to hold up to 10-12 hrs without burning? If not cut it off . And save it for the beans!!!


----------



## humdinger

oldpro1946 said:


> I've attempted my last brisket.  Made terrible brisket flats so I finally tried a packer to no success.  Smoked it for 5 1/2 hrs at 250 to 164, wrapped and let go til 195.  Was done early so I wrap the foiled brisket in a towel and put in oven at 100 degrees.  Had to leave it there for about 3 hrs.  Dry, dry dry.  Falling apart but dry!  Tried to follow Aaron Franklin's video and tried to use all the suggestions of people on this forum.  Woke up at 2am had it on at 4am.  Smoked for a total of 10hrs.  A lot of work for lousy brisket.  I"m done with brisket.


The oven at 100 degrees is porbably what dried it out. Do be afraid to add a little water and beef broth to the foil to help with moisture. It'll make your outer crust soft, but should help keep the meat moist.


----------



## oldpro1946

Humdinger said:


> The oven at 100 degrees is porbably what dried it out. Do be afraid to add a little water and beef broth to the foil to help with moisture. It'll make your outer crust soft, but should help keep the meat moist.


I did add apple juice and cider vinegar.  At 100 degrees I didn't think it cook anymore and with it foiled and wrapped in a towel plus with the liquid I thought it would be ok.  Very frustrating!!


----------



## humdinger

oldpro1946 said:


> I did add apple juice and cider vinegar.  At 100 degrees I didn't think it cook anymore and with it foiled and wrapped in a towel plus with the liquid I thought it would be ok.  Very frustrating!!


Hmmm..sounds like it shoulda been ok then. I'm stumped.....


----------



## floridasteve

Sometimes you just get a bad piece of me.


----------



## kc5tpy

Hello oldpro 1946.  This is why I started this thread.  To find out why some folks have so much trouble.

So!  What we need to know is start to finish your whole process.  Picts help a lot.  We need to know everything; no matter how slight you may think it is.  Tell us the meat you started with and the step by step.  Make sure it is what you did; not what you thought you did.  Such as did you test your therm probes before the cook or did you just assume everything was fine?  Did you trim the brisket?  There is SOME little or a couple little steps that will change you final product to something perfect.

We have very little info to work from.  You tried to follow someone on youtube.  I may not catch it but we have the knowledge to help.  If I don't see it I'll make sure a few of the others have a look also.  You can do this and we can help if you will let us try.  Don't give up.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## benson56

After poring through these pages, I tried my first brisket Sunday. This brisket was from a 4-H beef purchased at the county fair. Should've been good meat.

I didn't put rub on the meat and let it sit overnite.  Cut the hard fat off and put on generous amounts of salt and pepper.

Put it in the smoker and fired it up about 6:30 a.m.

My smoker is a Bradley that takes the bisquettes. It jacks in a new one every 20 minutes. I used hickory.

Let it smoke at 100-150 for a couple hours, then turned up the heat to get it up to 225-250. The thermometer on the smoker door said it was holding about 235. I thought perfect.

I let the smoke pour for about 4-4.5 hrs then stopped the smoke. After 6.5 hrs I put a probe in the meat to see how the temp was doing and it was at 205! The probe slid in real easy so I figured it was done. Wrapped it in foil, and a towel, put it in a cooler for two hours. Cut it open, and it was real tender and good. Took some samples to three different people and they all thought it was good.

I'm puzzled as to why it was done in 6.5 hrs when I was counting on it taking 12 hrs. Only thing I can think is if the thermometer on the smoker door is off.....but the meat wasn't burned really. Had a nice bark on it, which I ate and thought it was great in itself.

I'm not sure about the hickory smoke. To me it may seem a bit strong. I may try the pecan that some here suggested.

I have access to 5 more briskets so I will be doing some experimenting. Next time I will put a good rub on it and let it sit overnight, then try to keep the heat a little lower and see what happens.

I've learned a lot from all of your advices.

Thank you.


----------



## gary s

benson56 said:


> After poring through these pages, I tried my first brisket Sunday. This brisket was from a 4-H beef purchased at the county fair. Should've been good meat.
> 
> I didn't put rub on the meat and let it sit overnite.  Cut the hard fat off and put on generous amounts of salt and pepper.
> 
> Put it in the smoker and fired it up about 6:30 a.m.
> 
> My smoker is a Bradley that takes the bisquettes. It jacks in a new one every 20 minutes. I used hickory.
> 
> Let it smoke at 100-150 for a couple hours, then turned up the heat to get it up to 225-250. The thermometer on the smoker door said it was holding about 235. I thought perfect.
> 
> I let the smoke pour for about 4-4.5 hrs then stopped the smoke. After 6.5 hrs I put a probe in the meat to see how the temp was doing and it was at 205! The probe slid in real easy so I figured it was done. Wrapped it in foil, and a towel, put it in a cooler for two hours. Cut it open, and it was real tender and good. Took some samples to three different people and they all thought it was good.
> 
> I'm puzzled as to why it was done in 6.5 hrs when I was counting on it taking 12 hrs. Only thing I can think is if the thermometer on the smoker door is off.....but the meat wasn't burned really. Had a nice bark on it, which I ate and thought it was great in itself.
> 
> I'm not sure about the hickory smoke. To me it may seem a bit strong. I may try the pecan that some here suggested.
> 
> I have access to 5 more briskets so I will be doing some experimenting. Next time I will put a good rub on it and let it sit overnight, then try to keep the heat a little lower and see what happens.
> 
> I've learned a lot from all of your advices.
> 
> Thank you.


Check your temp gauges for peace of mind, and make sure the Hickory is seasoned well

Gary


----------



## smocan

Benson those door thermometers can be off by 50+ degrees. I have a Stumps Baby XL and the door thermometer is useless. Invest in a probe thermometer like a Maverick or even an iGrill or the like. You probably ended up smoking closer to 280-295. That's how I do briskets. I've had them come out perfect in 4 1/2hrs.


----------



## benson56

Thanks for the replies. I had a feeling about that door thermo.

Been eyeballing a new smoker but ain't feeling it yet. Probably wait until the Bradley gives up the ghost.


----------



## smocan

The smoker is fine just invest in one of these:

http://www.maverickhousewares.com/d...meters#/et-733-wireless-food-thermometer-set/


----------



## gator79

This is a great read, lots of good info. I haven't smoked a brisket in a little while but I figured I'd share my method and experience. I start with a Select grade packer usually around 10 or 11 lbs, if I could find Prime for the prices some of you found I'd get that. I rub it down with olive oil, coarse ground kosher salt, and lots of coarse ground pepper. Oak or pecan mixed with some apple is my preference of wood. 
     Smoke at 225-230 for 4 hours, after 4 hours I insert the probe in the meat to maintain a reading. While the box is open I mop with a mixture of red wine vinegar, apple juice, Worcestershire sauce, and beef broth. Close the lid and smoke to an IT of 160, wrap tightly with foil, adding a little more of my mop sauce, and continue smoking at 225-230. I don't touch it again until the IT hits 195, at that point i start checking it with a probe for tenderness. Once tender i will pull it out, wrap a couple more layers of foil around it, and wrap in a towel for 2-2.5 hours until ready to serve. 99% of the time they are trying to fall apart as i slice them, the other 1% it is still very tender and delicious. I will be sure to post pics next time i smoke one.


----------



## slysmoke

So I'm going to try my first packer, 14ish pounds.  Guess I'll get up at 0 dark 30 and put this thing on some smoke.


----------



## kc5tpy

Hello SlySmoke.  Well I smoke mine at 300-350.  I like to cook and eat in the same day.  14 lbs.?  12-14 hrs. TOPS!  Actually might be done in 10-12 hrs..  But my way is not the only way ( of course I believe my way is the best way ).  Good luck buddy.  Post picts.!!!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## slysmoke

So this went into the vertical gasser at 5am at 235 over a mix of pecan and mesquite. Dusted with SPOG

By 830am IT is 142. Hoping to ride it out naked, but time will tell as we get closer to dinner time.













20151107_184819.jpg



__ slysmoke
__ Nov 8, 2015


----------



## gary s

I'm in  let me grab a cup of coffee  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Gary


----------



## coloradopdm

I have one going today as well. SPOG&C with a dusting of zero to hero. Running the Traeger at 225*. Planning on a 6-7 hour cook. 












image.jpeg



__ coloradopdm
__ Nov 8, 2015


----------



## slysmoke

At about 11 hours IT was 198. Flat was poking very easily, the point not so much, but it was thicker.

I pulled it and sliced some of thicker part off the top of the point for a few burnt ends, then wrapped the rest for a nap in the cooler.













20151108_184028_resized.jpg



__ slysmoke
__ Nov 9, 2015






Flat was juicy and tender, in fact maybe too tender? 1/4 inch slice wouldn't hold up to its own weight.













20151108_184900_resized.jpg



__ slysmoke
__ Nov 9, 2015






Anyway, plated up with some beans and mashed cauliflower. Thanks for this thread.


----------



## bmaddox

After a long break from Brisket (due to the crazy price) I smoked two this weekend. Here is my post:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/237368/two-brisket-cooked-very-differently-including-sous-vide


----------



## coloradopdm

Only got one pic before I had to eat













image.jpg



__ coloradopdm
__ Nov 10, 2015


----------



## sunsetbeachsmkr

[h2]How to Make Pastrami (Smoked Corned Beef Brisket)[/h2]
Find a usda at least prime graded top round for brisket on sale.  Do not buy a prepackaged corned beef.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	






The Brine


2quarts  water
1cup  kosher salt
[sup]1[/sup]⁄[sub]2[/sub]cup  white vinegar
4tablespoons  sugar
3bay leaves
1teaspoon  peppercorn
[sup]1[/sup]⁄[sub]2[/sub]teaspoon  mustard seeds
1pinch  ground cloves

At least a week in a large sealed baggie in the fridge, turning each day.

Wash it well and apply a thin layer of Dijon mustard and the following rub;

The Rub


1teaspoon  black pepper
[sup]1[/sup]⁄[sub]2[/sub]teaspoon  dry mustard
[sup]1[/sup]⁄[sub]2[/sub]teaspoon allspice
[sup]1[/sup]⁄[sub]4[/sub]teaspoon  ground cloves
1 tbsp garlic powder

Set the smoker for 225 degrees.

Here is where you choose mild or robust wood but hickory, apple, pecan or cherry, you can’t go wrong

Now smoke the crap out of it – I mean go to an internal of at least 180, then cool it and slice it thin.


----------



## zenichi

Excellent resource...not sure why it took me so long to find it.

I'm sitting here now reading through a lot of this material while my first smoked brisket attempt is taking place. It's a 5 lb first cut and it's been in my Masterbuilt electric for about 5 1/2 hours.

I'll post pics of the progress but generally, this is how I did it.

5 lb brisket
Yellow mustard smear over meat and cover w/ rub (I'm using Oakridge BBQ's Special Pps Brisket rub)
I cut off the corner notch against grain to remind me which direction to cut against the grain

Smoker to 210-225º
Using hickory and apple wood mix
I added apple juice, some bourbon, and a couple cut up pears into the drip pan
Smoked until 170º (plateau-ed around 160-163º and stayed there for a couple hours)

I removed meat and wrapped in double pouch of foil
Poured a bit of apple juice in pouch
Put back into the smoker until almost 200º

Wrapped foil pouch w/ towels and place into PRE-WARMED cooler for only 30 min (I had initially planned for 1-2 hours)
Remove and pour au jus into bowl, mixed w/ a little homemade bbq sauce but wasn't sure it needed it
Sliced against grain and served
Here are some pictures of my Sunday.

I sat inside and watched the Eagles game with an Ivation wireless thermometer next to me while all this was happening. As it turned out, I could have left the Eagles off and just focused on the meat.

_Rub applied, before going into smoker:_













Rub.jpeg



__ zenichi
__ Nov 15, 2015






_About 30 min in:_













early_smoke.JPG



__ zenichi
__ Nov 15, 2015






_Things kept looking good but the Eagles were just awful, creating anxiety for me over the seemingly never-ending plateau time. I was getting almost no movement for almost two hours. The game just got worse from there:_
 













eagles.JPG



__ zenichi
__ Nov 15, 2015






_  Finally, I removed the meat when IT reached 17_0º (a bit dark, i apologize) and foiled it for the remaining 25º_:_













IMG_6020.JPG



__ zenichi
__ Nov 15, 2015






So the final push was taking a while and the wife began glaring at the clock and giving me the evil eye.  I bumped heat up to 2_75_º to get things moving faster. 

When the meat read 195º, I took it out of the smoker, wrapped it in towels and let it sit for just 30 min.

Here's the final product. Very slight smoke ring...was hoping and expecting more.













final.JPG



__ zenichi
__ Nov 15, 2015






And here's a close up:













breakup.JPG



__ zenichi
__ Nov 15, 2015






The family devoured it and raved but I think it should have been a bit more tender. The lesson I learned is to start earlier so I have a better chance of keeping low & slow going and also to ensure I've got enough sitting time after removing from the smoker. I might also try a cut other than the flat to see if my results are different.

I give it a 7.8 but I'm not disappointed as a first brisket attempt. I look forward to going through the archives of content here for additional tips. 

Will aim to improve next time.

Jonathan


----------



## humdinger

zenichi said:


> Excellent resource...not sure why it took me so long to find it.
> 
> I'm sitting here now reading through a lot of this material while my first smoked brisket attempt is taking place. It's a 5 lb first cut and it's been in my Masterbuilt electric for about 5 1/2 hours.
> 
> _Things kept looking good but the Eagles were just awful, creating anxiety for me over the seemingly never-ending plateau time. I was getting almost no movement for almost two hours. The game just got worse from there:_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagles.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ zenichi
> __ Nov 15, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _  _









  I hope you got explicit written consent and expressed approval from the NFL to post that picture! LOL. I bet you cut the tags off your mattress' too! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Nice looking brisket. Judging by that pull test you were almost there. Next time you'll get it for sure. How was the au jus sauce?


----------



## caliman126

20151025_140136.jpg



__ caliman126
__ Nov 18, 2015





Slammed mine out


----------



## zenichi

Humdinger said:


> I hope you got explicit written consent and expressed approval from the NFL to post that picture! LOL. I bet you cut the tags off your mattress' too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Au jus turned out very well, actually. Thanks for the comments.

NFL only cares about copyright infringement when winning teams are involved. Eagles don't fall into that category...


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## csrt4wookienutz

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__ csrt4wookienutz
__ Nov 25, 2015





I jumped in the deepend but I learned how to swim before doing so. I just smoked my first brisket last night on my new MES 30" with A-maze-n pellet smoker using oak, hickory and cherry pellets. I couldn't pass up $1.97lb whole packers at my local HEB. Even if it was the first meat I was going to smoke!

So far I smoked salt and cold smoked cheese. Haha.

I went naked for 11hrs, first 8 at 235F then 2hrs 260F and last bit 275F just SPO and wrapped/rested 1.5hrs in cooler. I did hack my brisket right in half so some of the flat was still on the point and I trimmed fat down to less then 1/2". I pulled it at 200F IT because I could no longer stay up and I knew when I fell asleep I wasn't waking up. It should of went a little longer but it's not tough, dry or bad just not fall apart all fibers broke down awesome like I am used to living in ATX (5yrs now, 25yr spent in NE PA)

I have a 2ND brisket I am going to be doing in 2wks so I froze in the mean time along with my other half. I learned a lot last night and I have you guys to thank! 
My amazed jumoed and I had 3 rows going for the first 1hr, I moved it to lowest rack and foil shielded it and reloaded once it went out so I got Heavy smoke the first 3hrs. 

Sliced pic is after being in the fridge. Most was easy with a toothpick when I pulled it and like I said I grew impatient but for 1st meat, 1st brisket I'm not intimidated at all. I'm looking forward to smoking a lot more, as long as my apt complex doesn't spaz out over my "electric grill".  













20151125_135149.jpg



__ csrt4wookienutz
__ Nov 25, 2015


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## luggs

Ive smoked briskets in smokeres made out of tin and my old home made job. These are regular ole briskets from HEB. I do not trim the fat. If you dont want the fat then dont eat it. I dry rub them and let them sweat for about an hr. I do not use sugar in my dry rub. Throw them on at 225 for 6 to 8 hrs. I cook fat side up the entire time. Mop them every hr. I do use a little brown sugar and honey in my mop. Fresh peaches glazed with 1 habanero pepper and cooked down into a mop is pretty good too. Anyway after 6 to 8 hrs i wrap mine in foil for a couple of hrs and turn up the heat to about 325 to 350. Pull the and throw them in a icechest untik im ready to serve them. Usually fall apart tender which is what i like. 













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__ luggs
__ Nov 25, 2015


















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__ luggs
__ Nov 25, 2015


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## luggs

Ive smoked briskets in smokers made out of tin and my old home made job. These are regular ole briskets from HEB. I do not trim the fat. If you dont want the fat then dont eat it. I dry rub them and let them sweat for about an hr. I do not use sugar in my dry rub. Throw them on at 225 for 6 to 8 hrs. I cook mine fat side up the entire time. Mop them every hr. I do use a little brown sugar and honey in my mop. Fresh peaches glazed with 1 habanero pepper and cooked down into a mop is pretty good too. Anyway after 6 to 8 hrs i wrap mine in foil for a couple of hrs and turn up the heat to about 325 to 350. Pull the and throw them in a icechest until im ready to serve them. Usually fall apart tender which is what i like. 













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__ luggs
__ Nov 25, 2015


















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__ luggs
__ Nov 26, 2015


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## alamojoe

AlamoJoe said:


> I finally smoked a prime brisket I'd been hanging on to for a while. I don't really know what I did different but this one came out really good. The only thing I did different was in the trimming.  I watched Franklin's video on how to trim a brisket and that resulted in a much better trimmed brisket than I usually start with.
> 
> Other than that I smoked it low - 225-250. I didn't open the lid until it was time to start probing - around 14 hours in.  When it was done, I wrapped it in foil and did the cooler thing for a couple of hours.
> 
> I would say, relative to my "ideal brisket" it had about 9/10 tenderness, 8/10 moistness, 8/10 flavor.  That is actually pretty dang good.  By my rating system, 95% of commercial brisket is not that good.
> 
> My family usually moans when I smoke a brisket because, in the past, the results haven't been that good.  This time they ate it up and I think I probably even have permission to smoke another one sometime, lol.


Did another one and, again . .it came out awesome.  I'm starting to think that a LOT has to do with meat selection.  This time, I went to a butcher shop and got a prime brisket.  I picked the one that looked the best - well marbled and just, in general, "nice looking".  If you're ever in San Antonio, a visit to Bolner's Meat Market is worth your trouble. 

I re-watched the Franklin BBQ Brisket Trimming video on youtube and, again followed that method.  I used Head Country Rub (again) and smoked low and slow - didn't lift the lid until 15 hours in and it ended up going for 19 hours.  The smoker got away from me and the first 5 hours or so were at around 265 - from then on it was around 225.  I actually had to rush it by wrapping it in foil for the last hour because I had dinner plans and needed to get it in the cooler before we left.  Dinner was epic and it spent 7 hours in the cooler and then directly into the fridge overnight.  The next day I cut about 3lbs of the flat and re-heated it by vacuum sealing it, submerging in a pot of water and put into a 225 degree oven for 2.5 hours.  

As it just happened to be, the only bread I had was some 2 day old flour tortillas and the only accompaniment I could offer were pickles.  I was really crossing my fingers, lol.  It came out amazing and my Dad, my wife and I absolutely demolished it - nothing left but a few smears of fat on the cutting board.


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  As most know I am not a big rub fan but if that is your thing that Head Country Rub is some good stuff.  Until you come up with something of your own I would stay with it.  I can eat that stuff straight out of the bottle!  WELL; in moderation.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## alamojoe

KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  As most know I am not a big rub fan but if that is your thing that Head Country Rub is some good stuff.  Until you come up with something of your own I would stay with it.  I can eat that stuff straight out of the bottle!  WELL; in moderation.
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Heck yeah!  I decided this year was the year I was *really* going to learn how to BBQ so I needed to eliminate some variables.  I used to make a rub from scratch but it was different every time.  I researched on some bbq sites what people thought was the best commercial rub and came up with Head Country.  Until I master just about every other aspect of BBQ, I am not going to mess with the rub - going to use Head Country.  It tastes awesome on everything.


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## kc5tpy

Hi Joe.  Mom still lives out near Elmendorf.  Off 281; 4-5 miles from 1604.  Dad is in Corpus.  LOVE to come home to some good Tx-Mex.  I REALLY miss that.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## jw smoke

So you want to talk brisket. I had never cooked a brisket in my life and when I purchased my first smoker (which was about a month ago) the first thing I made was brisket. So got my smoker going with no modes didn't have the temp where I needed it and the there is more smoke rolling out of it then a 3 story house fire. But to my amazement it turned out perfect my wife even compared it to the high end restaurants. Then with the leftover (yes I said leftover) I made jerky which I only got a couple of pieces. So I don't understand why so many people are having issues making a brisket unless Iowa's pure luck. I will find out this weekend when I make my next one.


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## kc5tpy

Hello JW.  I hope they all turn out as good.  Curious?  Whole packer brisket?  Temps where you need it? ( So what temps are we talking? )  I am also interested in your process of making jerky from brisket.  It would not be my first choice for jerky.   Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## tredd4life

Thanks to all the posts here and talking right and wrong our very first of 17 lbs to start turned out amazing.  Followed advice on here from buying the meat to cutting it.  It was amazing!!!   Thanks all!!  













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__ tredd4life
__ Dec 9, 2015


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## john weeks

While there is no cut and dry answer how much time should be anticipated to properly smoke a brisket?


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## brimcconnell

John, I just finished reading this entire thread.  Having done that, it took two days, I would say that there is no way to tell.  Too many variables.  According to the wisdom gleaned from reading, experiment and have patience.  If you don't have the time, save the Brisky for another day.  If you haven't read the whole thing, it is definitely worth the read.  Too many factors to just say how much time.


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## jw smoke

KC5TPY said:


> Hello JW.  I hope they all turn out as good.  Curious?  Whole packer brisket?  Temps where you need it? ( So what temps are we talking? )  I am also interested in your process of making jerky from brisket.  It would not be my first choice for jerky.   Keep Smokin!
> Danny


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## jw smoke

The first was a half packer the next is a whole packer. As far as the jerky made with smoked brisket sliced against the grain in 1/4 thick slices. But this was also done in a dehydrator for 1 hour per side medium heat setting. Still turned out tender and slight chew. The temperature I was looking for on cooking brisket around 225°. But now temps should be a lot better I have the smoker all sealed up.


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## kc5tpy

Hi JW.  OK buddy.  Thanks for the info.  Hope the next one is even better.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## jcbigler

tredd4life said:


> Thanks to all the posts here and talking right and wrong our very first of 17 lbs to start turned out amazing. Followed advice on here from buying the meat to cutting it. It was amazing!!! Thanks all!!
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> __ Dec 9, 2015


That looks great, congrats!


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## jcbigler

John Weeks said:


> While there is no cut and dry answer how much time should be anticipated to properly smoke a brisket?


Like Brian said above, there is no one answer. It all depends on the quality of meat, the size of the brisket, the type of cooker, and the temperatures you are using. 

Set aside a whole day where you can tend the fire and check your temps. I did two 12 1/2 pound briskets over Thanksgiving week and after trimming the probably ended up about 10 1/2 to 11 lbs. They both took right at 10 1/2 hours to finish up, but I was running my cooker at a little higher temp, in the 260-275 range. 

You just have to sort of learn how your specific equipment works and learn by trying different sizes and types of meat.


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## jw smoke

bmaddox said:


> I think meat selection is my problem. Due to my inherent cheap nature I always go with the lesser quality brisket because I don't want to pay $8-$10 per pound for the good stuff.



I picked my last brisket less than $2 per pound at Costco


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## alamojoe

JW smoke said:


> I picked my last brisket less than $2 per pound at Costco


I've bought prime briskets last 2 times - one from the grocery store, one from a butcher shop.  The one from the grocery store was $3 per lb and the one from the butcher shop was $3.50 per lb.  They were both on sale but $8-$10 is insane!  This is for whole, untrimmed packers, though.  My grocery store sells "super trimmed" flats for a lot more - I think $6-$8 per lb.  Honestly, if I couldn't get brisket cheap I'd probably never cook it.


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## jw smoke

AlamoJoe said:


> I've bought prime briskets last 2 times - one from the grocery store, one from a butcher shop.  The one from the grocery store was $3 per lb and the one from the butcher shop was $3.50 per lb.  They were both on sale but $8-$10 is insane!  This is for whole, untrimmed packers, though.  My grocery store sells "super trimmed" flats for a lot more - I think $6-$8 per lb.  Honestly, if I couldn't get brisket cheap I'd probably never cook it.















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__ jw smoke
__ Dec 12, 2015






15 lbs of brisket 8 hrs 160°


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## jw smoke

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__ jw smoke
__ Dec 12, 2015





 sorry was meaning to put it here.


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## jw smoke

So I'm guessing that it didn't cook long enough because it doesn't have any stretch it's juicy not tender. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## demosthenes9

JW smoke said:


> So I'm guessing that it didn't cook long enough because it doesn't have any stretch it's juicy not tender. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


I think you are right on the money with your thoughts.   Brisket was undercooked.


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## alamojoe

JW smoke said:


> So I'm guessing that it didn't cook long enough because it doesn't have any stretch it's juicy not tender. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


Agree with Demosthenes9 - 160 is under for BBQ brisket.  I am sort of honing in on my preferred done temps.  My last 2 briskets came out of the smoker at internal temps of 200 (12lbs, 16hrs) and 185 (15lbs, 19hrs), respectively.  I thought they were both great but give the slight edge to the 185 brisket - the slices held together just a little better and it was still moist and tender.  Interestingly, they both probed tender - I definitely remember the first brisket *not* feeling tender at 190.  Just goes to show you a brisket is like a snowflake - no 2 are the same, lol.  But 160 is not even close to done, imo.


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## mummel

I'm really glad to finally be able to join this thread.  I went to Costco yesterday and BAM, they are finally stocking beef briskets!!!  Recall I mentioned once before they had something called a beef brisket flat cut, which was ~$7 / lb.  I never wanted to pay this much so never got the chance to try it. 

But yesterday I found something called beef brisket flats, and they cost around $4 / lb.  I'm in for my first brisket!  They had some that were ~10.5lbs, and others that were around 4.5lbs.  Im going to try the 4.5lbs ones.

So where do I start?  Whats the jist of it?  I've read that you have to foil briskets.  So cook at 225F and foil at what temp?  Then then cook to what internal temp (I like beef rare to medium rare, the family would probably prefer medium). /excited.


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## cracker1397

mummel said:


> I'm really glad to finally be able to join this thread.  I went to Costco yesterday and BAM, they are finally stocking beef briskets!!!  Recall I mentioned once before they had something called a beef brisket flat cut, which was ~$7 / lb.  I never wanted to pay this much so never got the chance to try it.
> 
> But yesterday I found something called beef brisket flats, and they cost around $4 / lb.  I'm in for my first brisket!  They had some that were ~10.5lbs, and others that were around 4.5lbs.  Im going to try the 4.5lbs ones.
> 
> So where do I start?  Whats the jist of it?  I've read that you have to foil briskets.  So cook at 225F and foil at what temp?  Then then cook to what internal temp (I like beef rare to medium rare, the family would probably prefer medium). /excited.



I would start by reading this thread front to back or at least most of it.  You will learn so much.  The first thing you will learn is you can't cook brisket to a medium or medium well temp of 145-155 degrees.  You have to cook it to 190-210 degrees internal temp to make sure the collagen renders down and makes the meat moist and tender.  Use the "toothpick test" to know when it's finished.  Like I said too much to explain in one reply.  Read the whole thread and then give it a shot.  I knew nothing about cooking brisket and after reading this thread I made a whole packer and it turned out amazing.  Good luck and keep us posted on your first cook.


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## alamojoe

mummel said:


> I'm really glad to finally be able to join this thread.  I went to Costco yesterday and BAM, they are finally stocking beef briskets!!!  Recall I mentioned once before they had something called a beef brisket flat cut, which was ~$7 / lb.  I never wanted to pay this much so never got the chance to try it.
> 
> But yesterday I found something called beef brisket flats, and they cost around $4 / lb.  I'm in for my first brisket!  They had some that were ~10.5lbs, and others that were around 4.5lbs.  Im going to try the 4.5lbs ones.
> 
> So where do I start?  Whats the jist of it?  I've read that you have to foil briskets.  So cook at 225F and foil at what temp?  Then then cook to what internal temp (I like beef rare to medium rare, the family would probably prefer medium). /excited.


I would do 1 of 5 things with a flat:

1. Braise it like a pot roast

2. Cure it and smoke it like pastrami

3. Grind it up into burgers

4. Make beef jerky out of it (after cutting away all visible fat).

5. Cook it sous vide for 24 hours @ 150 and then slap it on a grill. (never tried that but I want to)

I would not try to smoke it like a whole brisket because, although I know some people have good luck with just flats . .I don't.  They always come out dry and disappointing if I smoke just a flat. 

If I was dead set on smoking it for bbq - I'd smoke it for a few hours and then wrap it in foil with a bit of liquid.  For bbq brisket - I always go way past well done to the collegen-melting stage - around 190-200+.   Happy smoking!


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  I am with Joe.  I know some folks say they have had good flats but except for standing on my head while smoking one I have tried just about everything.  They just come out dry  Just my experience.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## mummel

Thanks guys.  Yeah I did some reading.  Seems like foil at 160F, cook to 203F, and smoke at 225-250F.

Only thing I'm confused about now is the cut that Costco sells.  It sounds like the "flat" or "flat cut" are the wrong pieces?  What should I ask them for?

Am I looking for the "whole".  I found this pic:













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__ mummel
__ Dec 14, 2015


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## mummel

Ah interesting read: http://tvwbb.com/showthread.php?55222-Buyer-Beware

This looks exactly the same as my Costco counter.  Flat cuts (couple of lbs), Flats (4-5lbs, which is the flat cut without the fat removed), and the whole brisket (I assume this is the one I'm looking for right?), for ~10lbs.

Shall I get the whole?

______________

_As we all know, meat knowledge is getting dumbed down more and more at the retail level. In many cases, meat comes into stores already wrapped in Styrofoam trays and the "butcher" is relegated to simply loading the trays into the cooler.

There's a little more going on at Costco. They are trimming and packaging a lot of meat in-house, and unfortunately in my opinion, blade-tenderizing most cuts of beef that are sold on Styrofoam trays. I wish they wouldn't do that and let the customer do it at home with a Jaccard meat tenderizer if that's what they want. (By the way, beef sold in Cryovac like whole beef tenderloins, whole briskets, and bags of tri-tip are not blade tenderized.)

But I digress...what I wanted to write about is brisket. It's getting confusing at my local Costco.



In this photo, there are two types of brisket. The one on the left is labeled "BEEF BRISKET FLAT CUT BONELESS USDA CHOICE #76224" and it's a super-trimmed flat. The one on the right is labeled "BEEF BRISKET WHOLE USDA CHOICE VACUUM PACKAGED #26637". I get to looking at these whole briskets and the biggest one is about 9 pounds. The smallest one is just over 5 pounds.

I motion to the guy loading meat into the cooler and ask if there's a chance they've mislabeled these "whole" briskets, because a 5 pound whole brisket is highly unlikely. Perhaps these are untrimmed brisket flats, with most or all of the point removed? He says yes, they're flats with the point removed. "We just call them 'whole'", he says.

At the Costco Business Center, they sell untrimmed brisket flats as "BEEF BRISKET USDA CHOICE VACUUM PACKAGED #84281" and real whole briskets as "BEEF BRISKET WHOLE USDA CHOICE VACUUM PACKAGED #26637".

Maybe this is just a labeling issue at my Costco. Still, it's a reminder of the old adage "caveat emptor", or "let the buyer beware". It pays to be well-educated about the meat you buy to make sure you get what you're paying for. In this case, for the saavy buyer wanting untrimmed brisket flat, the error goes in favor of the consumer...they're getting untrimmed flat for the price of cheaper whole brisket. For the uneducated consumer trying to buy a whole brisket, he's not getting what he wants and may not even know it._


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## lemans

Brisket has the flat and the point. Most of the time you will see flats.  Points are usually sold as corned beef .
  I have smoked many flats and they come out great but I like to inject before smoking. What you want is a packet.. It is a big hunk of meat . Which is both the point and the flat.  That's what you really want!!


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## mummel

Lemans said:


> Brisket has the flat and the point. Most of the time you will see flats. Points are usually sold as corned beef .
> I have smoked many flats and they come out great but I like to inject before smoking. What you want is a packet.. It is a big hunk of meat . Which is both the point and the flat. That's what you really want!!


Look at the pic.  Is the one on the right the right one?


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## mummel

Alright I'm pretty sure the briskets are still labelled incorrectly (1 year later.....).  What I need is a ~10lb whole brisket.  Sweet!  I'm going to Costco on Thursday.


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## lemans

The one on the right!!!! Get me one also !!! Lol


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## zach5483

Granted I only read the first post, so maybe what I am saying is contradicted or discounted in the arguments above.

I live in North Alabama, pork and chicken country, so I only find select or choice untrimmed full packer briskets.  I also will make a disclaimer that I have only done a handful of briskets, but I will say, all mine have turned out great.

Firstly, I prefer the bark, so I do trim before smoking.  The problem when it come to trimming is some do not know how thick to trim.  You got to leave just enough to keep it moist, but not too much to have too much fat in a bite.  I like a little fat in my brisket.  The full packers also have that huge chunk of fatty gristle mess, that some may not know to remove.  Only leave the edible, dissolvable fat, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch thick.  

I then give it a mid Texas rub, Black Pepper and Kosher Salt. (Some would say to let it sit out for a few hours to come to room temp before putting on the smoker, I do not know how the Admins feel about that.  But one might think the salt prohibits any nasties from thriving)

I throw her on the the smoker at 250 for as long as it takes to get to 190-200.  I pull when it stalls out and wrap in foil, maybe add a little butter or apple juice.  When it reaches temp, I let it rest in a cooler for a few hours.

Also with the full packer, the grain runs in two directions.  You need to separate and cut across the grain.  If you do not, one will be tender, and the other tough.  

I have also been known to finish in the oven inside the house once I apply the crutch.  Granted that may not be smoking it, but once it is wrapped it isn't going to get anymore smoke, and it will have taken in enough smoke in that time. I do this, because the oven has a thermostat, when my COS CGDw/SFB does not.  

My whole thoughts on the matter is you have two types of cooking.  Fast and Slow.  Fast cooking: grilling, frying, etc.  Slow cooking: Roasting, baking, smoking, etc. The method depends on the meat.  You grill steak, you smoke butt.  Why?  Connective tissue and collagen.  You have to break down connective tissue and dissolve collagen. Meats that are full of them, need to be cooked low and slow, to a temp that most meat would dry out at.  A 200 degree steak bad, 200 brisket good,  The collagen will moisten the meat.  If you cook too hot or fast, you will melt collagen and it would be gone and the connective tissue will "bunch up" and make the meat tough.  

All that being said, the key to any smoking is cooking it low and slow.  Don't rush it.


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## zach5483

Videos that helped me


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## mummel

zach5483 said:


> Videos that helped me



Thanks.  I've seen Aaron's already.  I watched the other guy's and his brisket looked a bit dry.  Good vids, TY.


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## mummel

Hey guys.  Is brisket cook time the same as pork seeing as though your taking it to 195-203F?  I normally budget 2.25 hours / lb at 225F for butts, but that's unfoiled.  If I'm foiling my brisket at 165F, how long can I expect to cook this baby (~10lbs).

TY.


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## lemans

This is what I found by watch all the big boys smoke brisket.. 
   You have to trim the fat cap, no you don't.
   You must inject before smoking , don't pierce the the meat
    You have to have layers of flavor and many spices in your rub, only use salt pepper and garlic
     Fat side down, fat side up
    Smoker set at 250 low and slow. 300 hot and fast
    At 160 you have to wrap.. Let it go unwrapped 
      At 200 wrap and let it rest!!
        That how you do it!!!!
     In other words .. Whatever works for you. There is no right or wrong way...
     Thank you Myron thank you Franklin thank you bar nice pit boys...


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## lemans

Stupid auto correct . I like the pit boys but I don't know how nice they are.


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## gary s

You got it, What ever flavor profile suits you and your families taste, is the Right way,   I like simple,     Salt & Pepper, fat side up no injecting and low and slow

Gary


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## mummel

Lemans said:


> This is what I found by watch all the big boys smoke brisket..
> You have to trim the fat cap, no you don't.
> You must inject before smoking , don't pierce the the meat
> You have to have layers of flavor and many spices in your rub, only use salt pepper and garlic
> Fat side down, fat side up
> Smoker set at 250 low and slow. 300 hot and fast
> At 160 you have to wrap.. Let it go unwrapped
> At 200 wrap and let it rest!!
> That how you do it!!!!
> In other words .. Whatever works for you. There is no right or wrong way...
> Thank you Myron thank you Franklin thank you bar nice pit boys...


HAHA pretty neat list.  TY. 

For me:

-fat cap trimmed

-no injecting

-salt and pepper only for beef

-fat side up

-smoke at 250F

-wrap at 160F

-pull at 200F and let it rest


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## kc5tpy

Hi Guys.  I am with gary s. on this one.  The Texas boys are sticking together here.  







   Salt, pepper and fat side up.  I do sometimes smoke hotter and faster but not always.I just feel that it is important to understand that when smoking a whole packer; it is not "panic time" if your smoker hits 325-350.  If you want 225 just relax.  Get it under control.  The brisket will not be ruined.  If you chose to cook your brisket at 325-350 then that will also work.

The thing I think I have noticed is that the folks talking about hotter and faster are leaving something out; I know I did.  IF you are talking hotter and faster  that brisket takes a *LOT*  more "tending".  This is not set it at 350, throw it on and forget it for an hour or maybe 2 so long as the temp is correct.   like low and slow.  It is not relaxing, passive smoking.  It is proactive smoking.  If I am smoking hotter I am checking my brisket every 20-30 minutes.  No longer than 45 minutes AT A PUSH!  EVERYTHING to hand before I start.  I turn my big joints with a cloth.  Wife standing by with a platter in case I need  to remove the meat to tend the coals.  Garden trowel handy to remove the grill and tend the coals. Lid off, I QUICKLY turn the brisket, assess the heat needs ( hotter or colder ), grill off if needed.  Tend the coals if needed.  Replace grill.  Move the brisket to a hotter or colder place.  Lid on.  Very little heat loss.  WAY under 2 minutes.  That operation is not needed every time.  But good to be prepared when you start seeing a drop in temp.  That is the process for my Weber.  When using the horizontal offset I usually just moved the brisket to another part of the smoker.  Hope this gives folks ideas.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## brimcconnell

Just did four more briskets the other day and documented them here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/238928/4-more-briskets-with-qview

This post by Danny was very helpful.  I encourage you to go back and read the entire thread if you haven't yet.  My experience this last week was good and presented some very good brisket.  Still have a few changes I want to make the next Brisket I do, but I'm well on my way to getting some good results.

Brian


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## aggie94

Mummel I'm not sure if your questions were answered or not.  Yes the brisket on the right looks like a whole brisket.  Most whole/packers I find are in the 12-15 lb range.  As far as time, I estimate an hour a pound but if my fire is running hot it comes out closer to 45 min a pound actual cooking time.  Plus a couple hours afterwards to rest.  Others may have different results.


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## kc5tpy

OH MY GOD!  Aggie 94 are you suggesting cooking at higher temps?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   I am so glad this thread has gotten such a response.  We can see that there are minor differences ( rubs, no rubs, higher heat, lower heat ) but a brisket is NOT some magical cut of beef that can only be cooked "perfectly" by following one! ( only one ) "set of rules".  If you read the entire thread you will see that we all follow "basic techniques  Not rocket science.  Just a few techniques.

I agree with Aggie94.  Read the whole thread.  You will soon find the similarities.

Keep Smokin!

Danny.


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## aggie94

Merry Christmas Danny!  On a hot day I can put my smoker in the sun and it will run 120-130 degrees with no fire!  Seems like in the summer I have to work more on keeping the temps down, but in the winter I have to work on keeping them up.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Aggie.  MERRY CHRISTMAS!!  I hope you and those you love had a wonderful day.  I hope you and those you love have a happy healthy new year.

Dunno if you have seen my profile; I am not from England.  TEXAS born and red.  I lived about 30 miles from Corpus Christi.  57 years old now and been here for 17 years ( shivering! )! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I learned about brisket from watching the old men when I was a kid. as I am sure you probably did.  I just wanted to create a thread were new folks can come and see ALL the techniques and also for them to find out that brisket is not some hard to cook cut of beef.  Brisket is a cut of beef.  No more; no less.  If you follow a "few" techniques it is easy to do.  You need to make choices; rubs, trim, whatever.  Just buy a packer brisket; add salt and pepper, throw it on the smoker, control the temp, test for "doneness", serve!  Job done!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## cowboy11

I have the same issue. In winter I build a hotter fire in summer I add big chunks of ice to my water pan. Seems to help some


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## john weeks

How long should you rest the brisket?  What if you're not going to eat it for 24 hours? Rest it and refrigerate it wrapped in the towel?  I've got my first brisket resting at the moment. 204°internal temperature and the toothpick slides in and out like butter.


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## inkjunkie

John Weeks said:


> How long should you rest the brisket?  What if you're not going to eat it for 24 hours? Rest it and refrigerate it wrapped in the towel?  I've got my first brisket resting at the moment. 204°internal temperature and the toothpick slides in and out like butter.


204*? Hope you have a better end result than we did. Ours felt probe tender using a Thermapen. Couldn't really cut it, was crumbly


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## jcbigler

inkjunkie said:


> 204*? Hope you have a better end result than we did. Ours felt probe tender using a Thermapen. Couldn't really cut it, was crumbly



Maybe I'm over cooking my briskest, but I LIKE them crumbly, almost fall apart tender.


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## inkjunkie

JCBigler said:


> Maybe I'm over cooking my briskest, but I LIKE them crumbly, almost fall apart tender.


Do you make burnt ends out of the point?


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## jcbigler

inkjunkie said:


> Do you make burnt ends out of the point?


No. I like to eat the point sliced. Never done the whole burnt ends thing.


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## brimcconnell

My .02 Do the burnt ends. It is completely worth it.  If you trim up the real thick fat around the point before smoking, It will be easier to find the point and cut it off when your flat is tender.  I cut off my point, wrap the flat and into it's resting place, cut up the point into chunks, season, sauce and back on the smoke in an aluminum pan.  The little chunks of heaven that remain are a treat.  If you want, you can even share them with your guests 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





or not.


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## john weeks

WaterinHoleBrew said:


> Awesome thread Danny... Thanks for starting it !
> 
> I'll jump in here, I've had awesome (packers) & fair (flat only) briskets I'd say... Nothing bad !  The awesome has been the packers with a nice fat cap on them.... The fair was just a flat that I tried, no fat cap or anything & it didn't really turn out as well as I'd have liked it to... However, I do admit that smoke was more of an experiment more than anything !  I'll explain briefly what I mean...
> 
> I have done a bunch of packer briskets & I've had them turn out real nice... Tender & juicy !  With a packer, I personally will NOT trim any of the fat cap & rub down the brisky with some EVOO or peanut oil...  Sprinkle with SPOG & smoke with hickory &/or apple at 225-250* with the fat cap up !  I let it ride with the fat cap up til done... Usually done round 198-205* IT (but ultimately defined by the probe or toothpick test for tenderness) IMHO, fat cap up helps to render the fat or self baste the brisket !
> 
> The flat I smoked was done exactly as the packers I've smoked... But, there was a definite difference between just the flat & the packer IMO !  The flat had been trimmed upon purchase with no fat cap & didn't turn out as tender & juicy !
> 
> Which leads me back to my comment to start this post... The differences between packer & flat !
> 
> This pic is one example of the brisky I smoke !
> 
> However, I'am always open to new ideas & procedures on brisky smokin....  This has just been the way I've personally done brisky & it's turned out great...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ WaterinHoleBrew
> __ Mar 13, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But again, I'm always open to other ways or methods.... That's why I like this forum so much, great folks using TBS & each has their own way of smokin !


Lots of great information in this thread. This one capped it for me. I have a 30" MES and on Christmas morning at 6am I put a 12 lb brisket in there.  The whole packer was too big so, and I don't know why so please don't judge, I took just the point. I smoked it with apple at 225 until it reached an internal temperature of 204. I pulled it, wrapped it in towels, and put it in the refrigerator until the next evening. I pulled it out and unwrapped it after work. It sliced like butter and tasted like heaven. It was really simple overall.  Having worked in the food business for close to 35 years low and slow made the most sense to me.  Thanks to everyone for the contributions you've made to this thread and my dinner.  Just finished a brisket sandwich with a touch of sauce and some coleslaw on top.  Man, that'll make your tongue slap your brains out.


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## rogerwilco

We just did our first brisket and after kind of dreading cooking this particular style of meat, it was delicious. Started with a 17.5 lb, CAB  packer. Trimmed a bit of the fat, including the deckle area, removed a bit of "flap," and rubbed the brisket with some Butcher BBQ rub about one hour before getting it on the heat.

 We just purchased a Yoder YS640 a few weeks ago and decided to use it, along with BBQer' Delight Hickory pellets. Since so many people opine that pellet cookers in general don't have as much smoke, we elected to set the temp at 180°F for the first three hours so as to increase smoke production, at which time the temperature was increased to 245°F. The meat went on last night around 5:00PM and ambient temperature was in the low 30s. It was cooked fat-side-up and with the point facing the exhaust stack, as opposed to the burn pot.

  After six hours the chamber door was opened for the first time and the brisket was spritzed with apple cider vinegar, just because I wanted something to futz with. At this time a meat-temp probe was inserted into the flat. After a couple more hours the temp was up to 165°F, the brisket was pulled and wrapped in some pink butcher paper (that stuff is a bit harder to use than plain old foil), and the probe reinserted.

  The next time I checked the IT I was a bit surprised it had climbed to around 186°F and this brisket seemed too have avoided a stall. Then the stall happened. It took some hours to move on up to 190°F, at which time I opened the door and shoved in a bit on the probe. Feeling much resistance to the probe indicated that the brisket still needed more time,... and time. At 197°F, the probe was still "stuck" in firm meat, and lifting up on the wrapped brisket gave a feeling of anything but soft meat.

  After a total of more than 14 hours the temperature was 202°F in the flat and the probe met with almost no resistance when pressed into the meat. The point was probed and found to have an IT of 205°F. Leaving the brisket still wrapped in the butcher paper, it was placed in a cooler and surrounded by towels to help insulate it. Four hours later it was removed and placed on a cutting board.

  It had a beautiful bark and was as moist as any I've ever eaten. The fat and collagen had rendered nicely, and there was a great smoke ring. Thinly sliced, strips would support themselves when hung from one end but could easily be pulled apart. Everyone just stood around the cutting board, scooping up pieces as they were cut and eating them then and there. Not a single person requested any of the BBQ sauce that had been placed on the dining table.

 SUCCESS!!!


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## kc5tpy

Hello RogerWilco.  GREAT news.  Glad all turned out well for you.  Will only get better from here.  Keep Smokin!

Danny

SIDE NOTE:

What do you folks think?  Are we "starting" to get more success stories than failures?  Seems to me we are.  Maybe I am just being hopeful but I think we may have really helped some folks here.  I hope so.  Thanks guys for your contributions.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## jetsknicks1

Getting ready to do our first brisket. Been really into smoking for about 3 months and things have been good so far but I'm a little nervous about doing a brisket lol. I have a small Char Grill vertical smoker that's only about 18x18 so can I get a whole brisket and cut it in half to fit in the smoker or should I buy just a point or a flat? Is one better than the other? Thanks in advance.


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## jcbigler

I would try to find a small full packer trimmed brisket. You can often find ones in the 12-13lb range and they should not be any longer than 18", and usually more like 15-16". They won't be wider than 8-10" so you should have plenty of room. 

Yes, I have been known to take a tape measure to the store with me to measure my brisket and ribs.


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## jetsknicks1

JCBigler said:


> I would try to find a small full packer trimmed brisket. You can often find ones in the 12-13lb range and they should not be any longer than 18", and usually more like 15-16". They won't be wider than 8-10" so you should have plenty of room.
> 
> Yes, I have been known to take a tape measure to the store with me to measure my brisket and ribs.


Great idea on the tape measure Thumbs Up


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## dmarkj22

Beautiful smoke ring my friend.


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## aggie94

Great job Roger, I've heard those CAB briskets are really good!  Would love to try one but haven't found them around here.


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## rogerwilco

Aggie94 said:


> Great job Roger, I've heard those CAB briskets are really good!  Would love to try one but haven't found them around here.


We got ours at Restaurant Depot.


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## schroeder

Unfortunately i didn't read all 21 pages of this thread so sorry if I sound a bit redundant. My briskey always comes out a little tough and dry, awesome flavor though! I start off by rubbing yellow mustard over the brisket, then coating it in my dry rub recipe, then into the smoker at 225! every few hours or so I'll mop it with a mixture of oil, apple cider vinegar, beer, and my dry rub until i get an internal temp of 203 degrees, then i'll take it out, wrap it in foil, and put it in my cooler with a blanket for about an hour. After it's done I slice it nice and thin and serve on toasted sourdough bread with a little bit of thick and hearty A1 steak sauce! Then I always have to wash it down with a nice cold beer! haha Maybe i'm over cooking it a bit not sure? I would really love to make the perfect brisket (I guess what man doesnt?!) thanks for the help in advance!


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## aggie94

Schroeder I wrap in foil (some use butcher paper) at around 160 degrees then cook it to the 203-205 range.  For me that has helped a great deal making it moist.  Then I stick in a cooler like you do for a couple hours.  You could try that and see if it helps.  As far as tough that should mean it is under cooked, once they get overcooked they just fall apart when you are trying to slice them.  Some folks don't pay any attention to what its internal temperature is just keep cooking them until they can poke them easily.

And thanks Roger for letting me know where you got the CAB!


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## pittocarrillo

Question on the bark

I smoke one yesterday and I wanted to wrapped round 165 but I didn't think it didn't have enough bark dark at all

Is there a trick to get bark once it reaches 165


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## gary s

I usually smoke mine for at least 6 hours uncovered  @ 225º then I wrap in Butcher Paper. The paper holds in some of the moisture but not all 













IMG_20141203_174908_282_zpsce92b45e.JPG



__ gary s
__ Feb 1, 2016


















IMG_20150529_124144_717.jpg



__ gary s
__ Feb 1, 2016


















IMG_20131010_190005_936.jpg



__ gary s
__ Feb 1, 2016


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## aggie94

Another beautiful brisket there Gary!  And great pictures too! 












  

Pittocarrillo that is a good question, usually by 165 mine are pretty charred looking but I cook with mostly wood and little charcoal.  I do know that wrapping tends to soften the bark, sometimes I unwrap it for the last half hour or so to firm it back up.  Maybe Gary will add some thoughts on it?


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## gary s

Foil  (Texas Crutch)  will help the brisket come up to temp quicker, But causes a soggy bark. Aggie94 is correct  unwrap and put back on the smoker for a bit to help the bark firm back up.

Gary


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## brute

I keep it fairly simple.

I trim off very little fat then place on pit fat side up (indirect heat)
Seasoning: Salt, pepper, garlic powder and paprika
On pit for 6 hours at 300 degrees and sop as needed. After 6 hours wrap in foil and sop so meat can steam in foil. Cook until desired internal temp is reached.

Sop sauce: apple cider vinegar, butter, lemons, chopped onions and worchestershire sauce.

That's how I do a brisket.


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## brute

PS, I use a combination of oak and mesquite. Never charcoal.... Also, I never use lighter fluid. I always use fire starter sticks or whatever the heck they are called....[emoji]127867[/emoji][emoji]127867[/emoji][emoji]127867[/emoji]


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## bigsmoketexas

How long is too long to season a brisket? Is it ok to rub it down 2 days before you smole it? I always do it just a few hrs ahead of time....friend of mine rubbed his today for saturday. Will it dry out?


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## lemans

If you apply you rub two days before you put it on the smoker , you run the risk of over salting your meat. 
   8-12 hours is plenty of time


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## gary s

I rub mine just prior to putting it on.

Gary


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## bigsmoketexas

Preciate the info. 



Anyone smokin this weekend?


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## va_connoisseur

bigsmoketexas said:


> Preciate the info.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone smokin this weekend?


I'm doing a couple of briskets Sunday if I can clear the honey-do list Saturday.


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## gary s

Smoking a Brisket tomorrow ..................   Got my prep work done.    Made BBQ sauce

Gary


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## jeffh081

I'm sure it was mentioned here, I probably missed it. Ideas on reheating? Smoking a brisket, butt and duck on Saturday for Easter on Sunday. Not sure if I should slice after resting or on Sunday morning before reheating.


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## phatbac

The way i like to reheat brisket is to rest and let it cool and stick in fridge if its going to be a day or two. then wrapped in foil stick in a pan or on cookie sheet and reheat for like 30 minutes at 350 degree or until warm, then slice. if I'm going to store in freezer for a week or more i will reheat until slightly warm, slice and then put in a pan with beef broth and finish reheating in the broth and serve from a pan of warm broth esp to large group to allow people to get seconds and they stay warm and moist.

So in answer to your question i generally don't store sliced unless i am using for Sammies (like pastrami or something) then if i do i vacuum seal the meat in small bags for longer term storage.

Others may have different opinions...

Happy Smoking,

phatbac (Aaron)


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## bigsmoketexas

After 13 hrs it was gone in 30 minutes 













image.jpeg



__ bigsmoketexas
__ Mar 26, 2016


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## jaxrmrjmr

You won't get bark if you wrap it.  The wrap causes it to steam inside of the wrap.


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## jcbigler

JaxRmrJmr said:


> You won't get bark if you wrap it.  The wrap causes it to steam inside of the wrap.


I disagree with this statement. You most certainly do get a bark when you wrap with either foil or paper. The degree to which it forms can be debated, but the bark forms nonetheless. 

The benefit to wrapping is that you can keep the brisket from drying out and burning as you bring it closer to the magic temperature of 203.


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## tjones96761

Aggie94 said:


> ...As far as tough that should mean it is under cooked, once they get overcooked they just fall apart when you are trying to slice them.



The reason I haven't liked my briskets so far is because they DON'T fall apart when sliced. I finally got one the way I wanted by accident last night. "Done/Correct" to me is when it's sliced 1/4 thick, it flakes apart with a fork. If picked up horizontally with tongs, it would pull in half. You can pick it up vertically, but only very carefully.
So how I got there last night:
Prepped brisket the day before. A cut from our stock and it was extra prime with great marbling. I all the excess fat from the outside because of the amount of marbled fat. Rubbed and in the fridge. Shoulda took pics, but wasn't expecting such a good result. 
Smoked at 225 electric smoker temp (rack temp about 205-210) to 165 IT on a cookie sheet, flipped over about 3hrs in. Pulled out and foil covered with a little water, back in the oven at 225 that has a true rack temp. Set my thermo alarm for 203 and went to bed about midnight. I expected the alarm about 8am and was shocked when it went off at 3:30am. I got up and checked it, temp confirmed at 203, tenderness as expected. Probe slides in easy, and it flexes when it's picked up. I thought "well, here's another one that's just edible but not great." But I still had 6hrs before I could even put it in a cooler to keep warm. So I dropped oven temp to 200 and went back to bed thinking "it's cooked to temp, won't get any more done than it is right now." 
Got up at 10am and IT had dropped to 176. When I went to wrap it, I could tell something had changed. This is what I had been trying to accomplish. Again, should have taken pics. 1/4" slices and all were crumbly except the part above (or is it below?) the fat line that runs the center that is always more marbled than the rest. 

Maybe hard to answer without pics, but is this considered 'overcooked'? Even if it is, this is how I'll be cooking it from now on because that's how we like it. Everyone at Easter raved about it, and my family isn't shy about criticism.


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## larosa94x

Be Prepared this will be a long post...

Hey guys,

I'm part of the group who can't get it right. i've only smoked 2 briskets and both times have given me a dried out brisket.. However, i think i've figured out my problem. I kept a thorough log of what i did, maybe you guys can pinpoint the problem.
 

a little background on my setup before i post an hour by hour play book..

I have a propane charbroil vertical box smoker with water in the pan which is an absolute pain in the ass to maintain a steady temperature for whatever reason..

i have to reload the water pan every 30-45 minutes and add more chips every 45 to an hour. luckily the pan has its own drawer so i dont need to open up the chamber everytime it needs to be refilled.

im smoking with mesquite, cherry and pecan wood 

i'm using the maverick thermometer and the thermapen instant read. 

The brisket was an 11 pound packer choice grade, the only trimming i did was the rock solid fat that is on the lean side of the cut.(i wont flood this post with pics but ill link the full thread with pics.)

i seasoned the brisket with a recipe from "Bama BBQ" i found that calls for

2 Tablespoons kosher salt

1 Tablespoon turbinado sugar (i used light brown sugar)

2 teaspoons paprika

1 teaspoon granulated garlic

1 teaspoon oregano leaves (dried)

1 teaspoons coarse black pepper (use fresh cracked pepper)

the recipe also called for cumin and cayene that i decided not to add..

So the brisket went on fat cap down at 0430 chamber temp somewhat steady at @223 Internal 45

0500 Chamber 243 Internal 79

0530 Chamber 252 Internal 97

0600 Chamber 218 Internal 122

  - smoker didn't wanna get over 218 for a good 20-30 minutes (at this point i started waiting 10 minutes letting the temps stabilize after adding water to the pan to log my temps)

0640 Chamber 228 Internal 140

0700 Chamber 235 Internal 145

0720 Chamber 225 Internal 151

0750 Chamber 225 Internal 156

0800 Chamber 217 Internal 160

  - stall?

0830 Chamber 210 Internal 163

0845 Chamber 214 Internal 165

0920 Wrapped in foil @ internal 165

  - at this point i ditched the water pan and put play sand in the pan

1015 Chamber 260 Internal 170

1115 Chamber 225 Internal 171

  - ran a quick errand came home to my flame being out and Chamber dropping to 140, it wasn't out for more than 10 mins and i got back to 220 withing another 5

1215 Chamber 241 Internal 187

1240 Chamber 240 Internal 190

1300 Chamber 234 Internal 189

  - Temp dropped while foiled..?

  - at this point i was staring at the thermometer losing my mind, then i thought back to all the info i had been reading and i realized i was over complicating this.. i meant its a piece of meat for christ sake.. so i stopped worrying about temperatures and just poked it every 30-45 minutes with a tooth pick waiting for it to soften up.

1500 pulled the brisket @ internal 187 wrapped in towels and into the cooler until 1700

  - 187? wtf?!?!

as you can see my temps are absolutely all over the place.

I'm thinking the maverick probe must have been in a bad spot but i didn't want to open the smoker to fiddle with the probe. (only opened the smoker once to wrap in foil minus the toothpick testing)

I'm thinking that i simply didn't cook it long enough based on this picture.



So There's what i did for my brisket, i tried to be thorough with logging my process this way i know EXACTLY what i did or didnt do properly.. i pray this answers not only my questions, but also anyone else who cant seem to get this brisket right..

So here is just a few final questions that i myself have..

1. am i the only one whos temps are absolutely all over the place or is that temperature fluctuation normal?

2. when toothpick testing, how easy does it really slide into the mean? because mine felt pretty easy to slide in but obviously it wasn't done..?

If i think of anything else ill be sure to ask.. Cheers

LINK TO FULL THREAD

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/244314/brisket-failure-2-thorough-log-plus-pics


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## cowboy11

What do you think about the Stall, did you ever see it?

Didn't look like it got to 203-205 IT (to render all the fat out), even though it was probe tender.

Have you ever tried hot and fast instead of low and slow?

After pulling did you leave it foiled, wrap in a blanket, and put in a cooler for a few hours?

As to loosing temp near the end did you consider increasing the pit temp to help it come up.

Can try finishing in oven to get IT up also.

Briskets can be frustrating but the more you do the better you get.

Don't give up!

Just my 2 cents.


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## larosa94x

i dont plan on giving up.. Yeah i left that out, i wrapped in towels threw it in the cooler for 2 hours.

i didnt really have a pronounced stall like i normally see with butts. it kinda just kept crusing.. it did slow up around 160 ish but never completely stalled..

next time i think i will finish in the oven just to say ive tried all different methods..


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## jcbigler

larosa94x said:


> next time i think i will finish in the oven just to say ive tried all different methods..



Hey, c'mon now, there's no need to resort to such drastic measure. You can do it completely on the smoker. Just keep reading and looking at other people's pics. I'd say start by turning the heat up on your smoker, start about 250 or so and see how that works for you. Or see if there is a way to increase the air flow through your smoker.


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## sctim

regards BAMA BBQ (shud not be saying this as they beat Clemson for title - congrats)...$8-10/lb for the 'good stuff';

I  joined Restaurant Depot in Charlotte (they are all over the country www.restaurantdepot.com) and Angus Brisket is $3.09/lb

have to have a Tax ID or EIN or find a buddy with same

Angus is going on in about 2 hours today for dinner meal this eve


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## ibsmokinjimi

Now I'm terrified to try it! I just bought about a 7 pound brisket. Smoking it tomorrow. I put a rub on it last night and it's sitting in the fridge, covered. Its my understanding that when smoking...the meat will stall...and I have heard wrapping it in foil. Around what temp does it stall, and does anyone else have any suggestions on to overcome the stall? 

Also, 1 and a half hour per pound?


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## jcbigler

ibSmokinJimi said:


> Now I'm terrified to try it! I just bought about a 7 pound brisket. Smoking it tomorrow. I put a rub on it last night and it's sitting in the fridge, covered. Its my understanding that when smoking...the meat will stall...and I have heard wrapping it in foil. Around what temp does it stall, and does anyone else have any suggestions on to overcome the stall?
> 
> Also, 1 and a half hour per pound?


What kind of smoker do you have? And what temp are you planning to cook at?

Smaller cuts will typically cook a little faster. 

For 7 lbs, I would expect maybe 8-9 hours is you are cooking at the 225 range. 

Usually the stall happens abut 160ish. You can either kick the temp up a bit, or wrap in foil or butcher paper and then cook until it reaches 195-205. Usually by 200 it's nice and tender. I would expect it to reach 160 in 4-5 hours.


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## kc5tpy

Hello ib.  No need to be terrified.  Just a hunk of meat.  Throw that sucker on the smoker and get with it.  I assume you have read all or some of the posts here.  It ain't rocket science buddy.  You know what to expect.  It stalls when it stalls.  It is done when it it is done.  Each and every brisket is different.  Relax and breath.  Roll with it.  Crack open another cold beverage and keep on keeping on.  You know what temp. to pull it so relax, maintain temp. and wait for the IT to get there.  Rest it and enjoy.  It is that easy.  You will be fine.  Good luck.  Post picts.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## bigsmoketexas

Whats the best way to heat up brisket and chicken?


----------



## wade

Wrap it in foil and then place it in a moderate oven (or back in the smoker) at about 130 C (265 F) until the meat reaches 74C (165 F). The aim is to warm it up gently so that it warms through - rather than starts "cooking" again from the outside. The foil and the gentle heat will help it to retain its moisture.


----------



## dgpparent

I am smoking my 1st brisket today - plan on 6 hours at 220/225 it is 3.5 lbs does that sound about right ? Also I am reading just now about wrapping it in foil when do you do that and what is ideal internal temp for brisket ? I bought one of those instant read thermo's on amazon just for this weekend. I planned on studying up on this during the week but work got crazy !


----------



## ibsmokinjimi

Idk if I screwed up, but I put the sucker on the smoker (an R2D2 smoker) no temp gauge. Its been on about 4 hours now. Checked temp it's already 200 degrees
7 pound chunk...I assume that smoker was seriously hot and cooked it already and even went through the stall?


----------



## jcbigler

ibSmokinJimi said:


> Idk if I screwed up, but I put the sucker on the smoker (an R2D2 smoker) no temp gauge. Its been on about 4 hours now. Checked temp it's already 200 degrees
> 7 pound chunk...I assume that smoker was seriously hot and cooked it already and even went through the stall?



The brisket internal temp was 200? 

If so I'd say it's done. Your smoker was probably running 300 or so and being small it cooked fast. I'd check the temp in a couple more places on the brisket and if about the same, pull it off and wrap it in foil. Let it rest for an hour or two wrapped in a towel and in a cooler.


----------



## ibsmokinjimi

Yea, I checked in more than a few spots. Took it out, put it in a roasting pan...cut down the Center...and it's perfect...nice and tender. Juices come rushing out. Have it in some sauce in oven on 160 to keep it warm until company shows up here soon.


----------



## ibsmokinjimi

I just wanted to share one more post. My overall experience smoking this meat was weird but an adventure.

I started with a rub and let it sit in the fridge for 2 nights.
Long story short, again, I am not sure of the exact temperature of the smoker but it had to be pushing 300 degrees. 

I used Apple wood for the smoke and whether I'm grilling or smokin, I always use Royal Oak hardwood lump charcoal...and when the internal temp of the meat reached 200, I took her out and put her in a roasting pan. Cut down the middle and was excited to see a perfect pink center. Sucker was only in there for 4 hours! 7 pounds.

Juices came rushing out of the meat and then I lathered with some sauce. I put it in the oven at 145, just to keep it warm. It was in for about 1 hour. Unfortunately, it took away the pink, but still tender!

After cutting the meat, I used all the juices left over and poured it into a pot and mixed with flour. I made the most amazing gravy I have ever tasted. Little of the BBQ flavor with that delicious smoke flavor. Smoked Gravy! (for the taters and/or brisket) Definitely doing this again. I love when my guests literally make that "this is the best thing ever" face!












0416161917.jpg



__ ibsmokinjimi
__ Apr 16, 2016


















0416161949b.jpg



__ ibsmokinjimi
__ Apr 16, 2016


















0416161949.jpg



__ ibsmokinjimi
__ Apr 16, 2016


----------



## kc5tpy

Hello ib.  I often say that the temp. is not all THAT important.  I think this is one of those times where that has been proven true.  BUT!  I do think maybe I should modify my statement.  Maybe this is what brings me back to my original question:  Why do some of us find brisket easy to do and others have failure after failure.  I think in this case you were lucky.  Had you not checked at 4 hours that brisket would have been toast.  Get some therms for that smoker you can rely on.  Although I have done pieces of brisket and prime rib in a small R2D2 type smoker (http://www.oldsmokey.com/products/18-old-smokey-charcoal-grill?variant=387900948) without a water pan at around the 300 mark; maybe size does matter?  Maybe 300/325 in an Oklahoma Joe Longhorn and 300/325 in a WSM is *THE* difference.  You would think 225/250 is 225/250 but maybe even 225 is a bit to high depending on your smoker??  Maybe the difference is between the heat source and the meat??  Could this be what is going on?  What do ya think guys?  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## jcbigler

KC5TPY said:


> Maybe the difference is between the heat source and the meat??  Could this be what is going on?  What do ya think guys?  Keep Smokin!
> 
> Danny


I think it depends on a lot of different things. Air flow not being the least of them smokers that have more steady airflow will cook better at lower temps than other smokers. I think that's one of the things that makes the offsets work so well is they have such a good natural draw through the cook chamber. 

The vertical smokers gain their advantage from the proximity to the heat source. Insulated smokers like the BGEs and Kamado style gain their advantage from being efficient with their heat and fuel. 

But in all of these, better airflow will always cook the meat better than without.


----------



## jrapps

This thread has inspired me to try Brisket again! I just got a brand new pellet smoker (my MES  died a few weeks ago) but I have used it twice already so this won't be my first smoke on it.

We have a family dinner on Saturday and I got a 13lb packer and I am ready to give this a go. Going to season with SPOG, fat cap down over a water pan, 225 the whole time, no foil crutch. My only issue is I need to have it ready for dinner at my parents house at 6 pm, but smoking it at my house (45 min drive). So here is my plan..any feedback or suggestions welcome:

Friday 7pm, preheat smoker, trim & season brisket, get it in the smoke by 8pm.

Smoke to 195 internal then test every 30 min until it passes toothpick test...planning it to take 16 hrs to 12 pm noon Saturday, only going to open the smoker to occasionally refill water pan and of course once I start toothpick tests.

Sine timing is critical my "plan" is that if it ends perfectly at noon (which it wont), I foil, wrap in a cooler and then drive to my parents. Leave in foil 4-6 hrs until dinner, then slice and eat.

If it takes longer than 16 hrs I have some buffer built in, and I can always wrap in foil to crutch it past a stall if it looks like I won't hit my time. But I want to make sure it is done no later than 2pm so I have enough time for it to get a 2-4hrs rest and I have enough time to drive over. If it isn't close to 195 by 10 or 11 am I will foil it.

If it goes fast, can I leave it in the cooler longer than 4-6hrs?


----------



## gary s

Hey Danny, I have hundreds of briskets under my belt, I have only cooked with wood and charcoal, so I can't speak for the watt burners and gassers 

225º and 250º are where I smoke, mostly at 225º.  Check temps in your CC if it's hotter on one side, it's gunna cook quicker. another thing is how close is your rack to the RF plate in RF smokers. May be a lot hotter than what your temp gauge is reading. (Check your Temp Gauge accuracy)  BRISKETS ARE DIFFERENT, some cook faster, some take longer, some have enough marbling and fat to be very moist and juicy, while others are lean , have very little marbling and fat, and come out dry. Try to find the best brisket you can and PAY ATTENTION. after you have smoked several you will figure out how your smoker is cooking, about how long it will take and what to be looking for. It does take a few times to get comfortable and turn out consistent  briskets every time.

A couple of links that may help

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...r-the-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...st-on-misconception-of-the-1-to-1-5-hour-rule

Gary


----------



## bruno994

iB, glad your brisket came out to the liking of your guests and you!  It does seem like you got just a bit lucky though catching it at the right time for sure.  I would take the advice from KC and get you some trusty temp gauges or a Maverick or other brand of probe to monitor the temp of both your smoker and your meat.  Once you get a feel for your smoker you will find that you rely less and less on the therms, you will just learn that this amount of intake and fuel will get you X temp.  I agree with JC and personally feel that air flow is the single most important factor in the performance of your smoker, not the style or the fuel, but simple air flow.  A 7 pound brisket cooking in 4 hours is not uncommon at all, it really depends on the meat as Gary noted, you might go buy another 7 pounder and it take 6 hours...on my UDS I'll cook 13-15 pound packers in 6 to 7 hours, 4 hours of smoke, 2 to 3 hours wrapped.  Even with the wrap, I get a nice bark and color to everyone.  

Happy smokin!


----------



## kc5tpy

Well!  I have been lucky enough to have a lot of the great brisket smokers post on this question.  I thought maybe we could find the ONE thing that was common with all the folks having trouble smoking a brisket.  I now think I was wrong.  I don't think it was any ONE thing.  I think it all comes down to EXPERIENCE and practice ( and some luck ).  In my opinion you must learn how YOUR smoker behaves.  You need to learn how to chose a packer brisket.  You need to learn what to do if the weather changes ( I have put a fan in front of my air intake because of no breeze ).  I do think once you have that experience you can smoke a brisket any time anywhere.  I have no doubt I could put bruno or gary s ( and many others ) on a totally unknown smoker and they could produce a good brisket.  OH! They may be doing a "dance" but I think things would turn out well so long as they chose the brisket.

It ain't rocket science is it?  So I guess there was never one solution.  I think we have all contributed to one of the best brisket threads ( with many GREAT links ) on the forum.  Thanks guys for all who posted on this thread.   I hope folks keep posting and we keep helping.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## mummel

I've got Aaron's book ready to go but just a quick sanity check for brisket cook time?  Hours / lb if foiling?  TY!


----------



## cowboy11

Your favorite seasoning on meat, 0-12 hours.

 Pit at 225 degrees more or less, 

foil when internal temperature gets to 165 degrees +\-, 

pull when internal temperature gets to 195 degrees +\-,

 toothpick should go in easy, leave foil on, wrap in towel, and put in cooler for at least 1 hour. 

Pull from cooler, separate flat and point, trim fat that didn't render during cook. 

Keep notes. It is done when it is done. 

Happy cooking


----------



## mummel

cowboy11 said:


> Your favorite seasoning on meat, 0-12 hours.
> 
> Pit at 225 degrees more or less,
> 
> foil when internal temperature gets to 165 degrees +\-,
> 
> pull when internal temperature gets to 195 degrees +\-,
> 
> toothpick should go in easy, leave foil on, wrap in towel, and put in cooler for at least 1 hour.
> 
> Pull from cooler, separate flat and point, trim fat that didn't render during cook.
> 
> Keep notes. It is done when it is done.
> 
> Happy cooking


Awesome TY.


----------



## mummel

Any idea hours / lb


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## jcbigler

mummel said:


> Any idea hours / lb


As few as 1. As many as 2. Depends on your smoker, your temps, and the actual cut of meat.


----------



## mummel

JCBigler said:


> As few as 1. As many as 2. Depends on your smoker, your temps, and the actual cut of meat.


Wife just picked up a brisket!  First one ever.  Doing it tomorrow.  12 lbs untrimmed.  I'm under prepared.  This was sort of a last minute idea.

I smoke at 225F.  Will 15 hours be enough?????


----------



## cowboy11

Please understand not every brisket is the same; therefore it is hard to put a time on it.

It will be done when it is done.

The best briskets are tender, toothpick test for tenderness.

Your favorite seasoning (can be as simple as salt and pepper), build a fire, put in some smoking wood, and cook it.

It can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.

I prefer to keep it simple and have gotten accolades for my briskets.

If it gets done early just keep it foiled, wrap in a towel, and rest is a cooler. It will continue to slowly cook but can be kept warm for 3 or 4 hours this way.

Keep notes, enjoy your day cooking, check cooking temperature often. Experienced cooks have told me they do not even open the pit until 3 or 4 hours after starting the cook. As long as your temp is maintaining and you are getting thin blue smoke all is good.

You are not underprepared if you have fuel for the fire, smoking wood, and seasoning. You will build confidence the more you cook.

Since it is a long smoke you can put on other meat if you have room on your pit.

Take pictures: before, during, and after to put after you enjoy the brisket, of course.

Don't forget the sides: beans, tater salad, pickles, whatever you and SWMBO wants.

Before long you will be smoking fatties, ribs, and butts.


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## kc5tpy

Hey mummel.  I was surprised to read you had not smoked a brisket.  You have read the thread I assume and the guys are giving great advice.  Think of this as that girl back in High School you always wanted to ask out but never had the courage ( boy did she miss out ).  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   You got this buddy.  You know what you're doing.  I expect to see some good picts!  No stress.  Have fun with it.  It's just a hunk of beef.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## cowboy11

pictures STRUT YOUR STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jcbigler

mummel said:


> Wife just picked up a brisket!  First one ever.  Doing it tomorrow.  12 lbs untrimmed.  I'm under prepared.  This was sort of a last minute idea.
> 
> I smoke at 225F.  Will 15 hours be enough?????


For a 12 lb brisket, I think 15 hours would be plenty at 225. 

I usually do 12 to 13lb briskets in my offset smoker and they take about 10-11 hours. But I usually smoke a little higher, in the 250-275 range. 

Just make you sure you know what your temps are, and that it is easily probed around the time that it reaches 200-ish degree internal temp. Then you can pull it off, wrap it in foil and towels and put it in a cooler for several hours until you are ready to serve.


----------



## slysmoke

So this little guy caught my attention yesterday at Walmart













20160424_061921.jpg



__ slysmoke
__ Apr 24, 2016






Since I was looking for something to smoke on Sunday anyway, I figured what the heck, 9ish pound select flat for just under $28, had a pretty good bend to it soooo

Here we are all trimmed up, dusted with SPOG and ready to go into the gasser at 630AM to meet it's new best friends, hickory and mesquite to hang out all day at around 235.













20160424_063408.jpg



__ slysmoke
__ Apr 24, 2016






More to come.


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## mummel

KC5TPY said:


> Hey mummel.  I was surprised to read you had not smoked a brisket.  You have read the thread I assume and the guys are giving great advice.  Think of this as that girl back in High School you always wanted to ask out but never had the courage ( boy did she miss out ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You got this buddy.  You know what you're doing.  I expect to see some good picts!  No stress.  Have fun with it.  It's just a hunk of beef.  Keep Smokin!
> 
> Danny


So I finally did it.  Smoked my first brisket!!  My smoker was in storage over the winter so this was the first smoke of the season.  I had to build a small shed first to keep my MES out the rain and once the weather warmed up, I finally got around to it.

Always wanted to do a brisket but never got a chance last summer (plus I was super nervous to screw up an expensive piece of meat).

However, this smoke was seriously under planned.  I got home at 12:30am on Sat night and decided to go for it.  Trimmed the brisket (11.8lbs down to 9.1 lbs), lit my AMPS (which worked this time), found the brisket summary page in Aarons book for a quick read, set to 275F, threw on kosher salt and ground black pepper, threw in the brisket at 1am'ish, and went to bed.  Very unlike me.  I always like to over plan and over think everything.  I was winging it at this point.

Woke up at 6am.  Mav alarm was going off.  IT was 165F.  Went down, it looked great, wrapped it in foil, and put it back in the MES.  Went back to bed.

Around 10am Mav alarm went off.  IT was 203F.  I took my other instant read thermometer to double check.  It was reading 196F and it did not feel like it glided right into the meat.  So I left it.  Checked again when my Mav alarm said 209F.  My instant read said 203F, and it slid right into the brisket.  The feel was much better.

Threw the brisket in a cooler, and we sliced it at 2pm.

In short, being my first brisket (I've had sandwiches in stores, never at a piece of meat like this before), I really liked it.  My mother in law said it was fantastic.  I put a ton of pepper on it and it had a great bite.  Flavor was great.

However, as it's "we are always striving for something better", I found it a little dry/crumbly, maybe by like 10%.  I cant say for sure because I have no other briskets to reference it against.  But it wasnt a juicy piece of meat like I was expecting.  However, when going back to watch Aarons Youtube vids, the texture seemed to be the same.

Overall, I think it was great.  Next time I will trim less fat (I really carved it down with hardly any fat cap).  I will also not cook it as long.  But I am definitely doing another one.  YUM.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful feedback.













IMG_4960.jpg



__ mummel
__ Apr 25, 2016


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## cowboy11

Congrats.  Now you can plan your changes for future briskets. 

The Qvue certainly looks good. 

KEEP ON SMOKING


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## gary s

mummel said:


> So I finally did it.  Smoked my first brisket!!  My smoker was in storage over the winter so this was the first smoke of the season.  I had to build a small shed first to keep my MES out the rain and once the weather warmed up, I finally got around to it.
> 
> Always wanted to do a brisket but never got a chance last summer (plus I was super nervous to screw up an expensive piece of meat).
> 
> However, this smoke was seriously under planned.  I got home at 12:30am on Sat night and decided to go for it.  Trimmed the brisket (11.8lbs down to 9.1 lbs), lit my AMPS (which worked this time), found the brisket summary page in Aarons book for a quick read, set to 275F, threw on kosher salt and ground black pepper, threw in the brisket at 1am'ish, and went to bed.  Very unlike me.  I always like to over plan and over think everything.  I was winging it at this point.
> 
> Woke up at 6am.  Mav alarm was going off.  IT was 165F.  Went down, it looked great, wrapped it in foil, and put it back in the MES.  Went back to bed.
> 
> Around 10am Mav alarm went off.  IT was 203F.  I took my other instant read thermometer to double check.  It was reading 196F and it did not feel like it glided right into the meat.  So I left it.  Checked again when my Mav alarm said 209F.  My instant read said 203F, and it slid right into the brisket.  The feel was much better.
> 
> Threw the brisket in a cooler, and we sliced it at 2pm.
> 
> In short, being my first brisket (I've had sandwiches in stores, never at a piece of meat like this before), I really liked it.  My mother in law said it was fantastic.  I put a ton of pepper on it and it had a great bite.  Flavor was great.
> 
> However, as it's "we are always striving for something better", I found it a little dry/crumbly, maybe by like 10%.  I cant say for sure because I have no other briskets to reference it against.  But it wasnt a juicy piece of meat like I was expecting.  However, when going back to watch Aarons Youtube vids, the texture seemed to be the same.
> 
> Overall, I think it was great.  Next time I will trim less fat (I really carved it down with hardly any fat cap).  I will also not cook it as long.  But I am definitely doing another one.  YUM.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the helpful feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_4960.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ mummel
> __ Apr 25, 2016


Sorry to hear that  Probably just overcooked it a bit.  It's a learning experience 

You will be smoking that perfect brisket in no time


----------



## mummel

TY guys.  I need to post a pic of the shed setup.  Works beautifully.


----------



## cowboy11

In addition to my first post may I suggest a couple of things:

   1. Once IT hits 195-200 pull, wrap in foil or brown paper, then a towel, and put in a cooler for a couple of hours to finish, it will continue to slowly cook as it cools. Then you might save some for burnt ends (brisket candy)

    2. I find it easier to trim fat after the cook as most of it has rendered out. It will be greasy though, or you can just trim very little fat from the cap and about 50% of the fat between point and flat before you start.

What works on one piece of meat may not work as well on the next. My daughter says I bond with my brisket before I cook it. I disagree with her but I do study to see any differences from previous cooks. 

The other thing is not all briskets are the same. Aaron says he has only one supplier for his briskets. He is trying to control the quality of meat as much as possible. 

I buy my briskets by look, feel, and cost from wherever. Majority of time I do pretty good. I think Aaron has a video on selecting brisket that is pretty good.

At the end of that process I I am on my 3rd or 4th adult beverage and I think, throw it on and try to stop just before I burn it. If you do burn it a little call it bark. 

You can really have some fun with this.


----------



## mummel

If you pull a slice, should it have some resistance and tug to it?  Or does it just crumble.  Because mine was crumbly.  Even though it wasnt really dry, it crumbled.


----------



## kc5tpy

Hello.  Told ya you had this one buddy.  Crumbly usually means a "little" over cooked.  But at least it wasn't dry.  Looks great to me!  I leave the fat and trim it when I slice.  Your briskets will only get better from here.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## cowboy11

In a perfect world a slice should droop over a knife or if pulled separate into fairly equal pieces.

If you got it tender with a taste everybody liked that is the main thing. When mine crumble I make pulled beef sandwiches.

Personally I like and IT of 200 - 205 for the finished IT.

Don't know if that would have made a difference.

You can tweak when you cook the next one.

I really think you did very well for a first time brisket and are very accomplished. Like anything you want to do well with it just takes practice and experience.


----------



## gary s

Don't worry about crumbly, Everybody has had crumbly before.  Like anything else if takes several times to get it

figured out. Learning your smoker is a big step.  Meat selection is another.  The last brisket I cooked I went through

a bunch, even had them bring some more from the back to look at. I got the best one from what I had to choose

from, but still wasn't what I was used to getting. All in all it turned out pretty darn good. I have been smoking for over 40 years

and still have a disappointment every once in a while. 

Gary


----------



## kc5tpy

ABSOLUTELY!  We have all had crumbly and all had disasters.  I went through a time when everything I cooked on the smoker or cooked inside the house turned out wrong!  Not fancy new stuff; I'm talking my "go to" recipes!  I think more mistakes should be posted here on the site.  Post the mistake and then post the reason the mistake was made so that others can learn.  I'm not afraid to admit not everything turns out great.  Sh--tuff happens.

Hang in mummel.  Each one will be better than the last.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


----------



## mummel

KC5TPY said:


> ABSOLUTELY!  We have all had crumbly and all had disasters.  I went through a time when everything I cooked on the smoker or cooked inside the house turned out wrong!  Not fancy new stuff; I'm talking my "go to" recipes!  I think more mistakes should be posted here on the site.  Post the mistake and then post the reason the mistake was made so that others can learn.  I'm not afraid to admit not everything turns out great.  Sh--tuff happens.
> 
> Hang in mummel.  Each one will be better than the last.  Keep Smokin!
> 
> Danny


So a quick update.  I'm busy chowing through the brisket.  I was initially meh about the cost but its a ton of meat haha!  Makes many meals.  Last night I cut some slices, microwaved them, and sat down to eat.  THEY WERE AMAZING!  Dont know what it is about meat thats been cooled in the fridge.  So much smokier. 

Anyway, I'm getting to the thicker part of the brisket, and I think its cooked perfectly.  I gave the meat a tug, and it held nicely before breaking.  Its felt perfect.  There are now some fat slither in between the meat etc. 

So I think I started at the thinner end of the brisket the other day with no fat cap.  Like I said, it was maybe 10% overcooked but was fine.  But now that I got to the thicker part of the brisket, its juicy and tastes soooo good.

I didnt trim big pieces off the brisket like in Aarons vid.  All I did was use my fingers to feel if there were any hard fat parts, and then cut them off/out (like under that flap, there was a hard piece of fat under there that probably wont render etc).  I just chopped it out, but left the whole meat in one piece (didnt cut off the ends etc).

So if I was in a competition or owned a restaurant, perhaps I would cut off those thinner pieces like he did.  But at least for now, I dont mind the other parts and I love how the thicker part of the brisket came out.

So what about putting the Mav into the thinner part of the brisket and pulling at 203F.  Or do you risk tougher meat them on the thicker part if thats only at 192F or something like that?  Mmmmmmm, brisket :))))


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## mummel

Oh and a quick question - any recommendations for a proper knife that can cut beef brisket?  Something cheap, like $15.  TY!


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## jcbigler

mummel said:


> Oh and a quick question - any recommendations for a proper knife that can cut beef brisket?  Something cheap, like $15.  TY!



Dexter-Russel 12" scalloped slicer. This is what Aaron Franklin uses: 


This is what I use:


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## cowboy11

I have no scientific  proof of this. My opinion is that when the IT reaches around 200 in the thinner part pull wrap and finish in a cooler.

What I think this does is allow the brisket to continue to cook. The brisket is still cooking, but very slowly, as it will hit a peak IT and then start to cool. The thinner part will do this sooner than the thicker part. If you pull at the perfect IT then all the brisket is done the same. (AGAIN THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION)

There are so many variables that it can drive you crazy as most are somewhat uncontrollable.

So keep smoking, keep notes, and when you find whatever is prefect for you, your family, and friends then you have your recipe.

If you can smoke a brisket once a month you will certainly process up the learning curve.

As to a knife, I have an Old Hickory and a Henckels and I use my Old Hickory the most. My Old Hickory is the 7" slicer, but no matter what knife you use it needs to be kept sharp.


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## gary s

mummel said:


> Oh and a quick question - any recommendations for a proper knife that can cut beef brisket?  Something cheap, like $15.  TY!


Here is what I use most of the time

One day I was at our local restaurant supply and was looking at knives saw this

one and decided to give it a try













IMG_20160427_131106_849.jpg



__ gary s
__ Apr 27, 2016


















IMG_20160427_131123_744.jpg



__ gary s
__ Apr 27, 2016


















IMG_20160427_131329_881.jpg



__ gary s
__ Apr 27, 2016


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## lancep

Hey Sir, I would worry that if you cook to the IT of the thinner part of the flat, that would be at risk of Undercooking the thicker point/flat section. IMO undercooking a brisket is far worse than slightly over cooking. That's often where you get your tough, chewy, stringy brisket that people fear. Seems like, the further up you went, the better it got. So you may just try to repeat exactly what you did and then lop a couple inches off the tip of the flat and start slicing there. I usually cut off the first two to three inches and chop that up for tacos. Even more if it's just me and the ladies. Sounds like you had a good first run, though, so points to you!
Lance


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## jcbigler

LanceP said:


> Hey Sir, I would worry that if you cook to the IT of the thinner part of the flat, that would be at risk of Undercooking the thicker point/flat section. IMO undercooking a brisket is far worse than slightly over cooking.



This is one of those areas where you have to know your smoker. 

In my offset, I cook my brisket with the fat up and the point closer to the firebox. I will usually rotate my brisket once or twice during the cook so that the flat gets a little more heat. But once I pull it, the flat and point are within about 10 degrees of each other, usually closer to 5. I also check my temps in both the flat and point so I know how each one is progressing. 

In a vertical or electric smoker where the heat is coming from the bottom, you should probably use a different temperature management strategy. 

Either way, once you are above 195 degrees, you're fully cooked in both the flat and point. It's just a matter of how tender you want each side.


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## lancep

Absolutely! Knowing your smoker is key. I cooked the same way on my first Walmart offset and the gasser that replaced it. On the WSM, I go fatcap down and let it ride. If the end of the flat gets a little more done, no big deal. I'm not selling it and it makes great tacos etc. But if he's happy with the point and upper part of the flat, I would worry that cooking strictly to the temp of the end could end up disappointing.


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## huntsmoke41

Doing a 14 lb packer brisket this weekend in my BBQ guru onyx oven. What's everyone's thought as far as using a water pan? I did a brisket once before in the onyx without the pan and I feel like that hurt me and Temps were all over the place. 
If I don't use the pan, I'll probably put fat side down, but if I use the pan I'll put fat up. Just curious what thoughts are in regards to using the water pan. 
The onyx oven is vertical style cooker, so the heat is directly under the meat. 
I appreciate any and all input.


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## aggie94

I have an offset smoker and usually throw a pan of water under my brisket, in theory it should help even out the temperature a little.


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## xray

I'm gonna smoke my first brisket this Saturday. The meat selection in my area is terrible, here's what I bought. Thank goodness for having a gift card.













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__ Apr 28, 2016


















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Would you even call this a brisket? It's only 2lbs.  I was gonna buy a Chuck roast for pulled beef but the brisket looked like it had more meat per lb. for only a few dollars more.


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## brandon91

Xray said:


> I'm gonna smoke my first brisket this Saturday. The meat selection in my area is terrible, here's what I bought. Thank goodness for having a gift card.
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> Would you even call this a brisket? It's only 2lbs. I was gonna buy a Chuck roast for pulled beef but the brisket looked like it had more meat per lb. for only a few dollars more.


Wow that's pretty expensive. You can get USDA prime whole packer brisket at Costco for $2.80/lb. 12lbs more meat for a little less than double what you payed for that. Costco is everywhere surely there's one near you? Either way it will be delicious! Happy smoking.


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## xray

brandon91 said:


> Wow that's pretty expensive. You can get USDA prime whole packer brisket at Costco for $2.80/lb. 12lbs more meat for a little less than double what you payed for that. Costco is everywhere surely there's one near you? Either way it will be delicious! Happy smoking.



Closet Costco is 100 miles from me (Harrisburg, PA). The price is the reason I've waited so long to do one. If I didn't have the grocer's gift card, I probably would need to sell a kidney to afford one.


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## brandon91

Xray said:


> Closet Costco is 100 miles from me (Harrisburg, PA). The price is the reason I've waited so long to do one. If I didn't have the grocer's gift card, I probably would need to sell a kidney to afford one.


Shoot, take a weekend drive and stock up on 5 or 6 for the freezer 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






. Worth it imo.


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## humdinger

Maybe try using white pepper (WP) instead of black pepper (BP). I found that WP has a more "simple" and less complex pepper taste (thus allowing the meat flavor to shine through) and the heat from WP hits your tongue a bit different than BP. Also I've found that same heat tends to "opens up" my taste buds and sinuses for a more aromatic eating experience.

Start with a little then add more until you like the taste and heat. (WP tends to be hotter than BP.) Enjoy!


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## xray

Here's my first attempt












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__ May 1, 2016


















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The thinner portion of the flat was more tender and juicy. The thicker part was tender but kinda dry. What did I do wrong? 

Here's the details in a thread I started:
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/245763/smoking-a-small-2lb-brisket#post_1557308


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## cowboy11

i always keep notes and on a future cook my briskets have slowly gotten better

I try to make only one or two changes per cook. If it is better I keep, the same or worse I cross those changes off the change list. 

Practice makes perfect. 

KEEP ON SMOKING.


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## bgosnell151

HuntSmoke41 said:


> Doing a 14 lb packer brisket this weekend in my BBQ guru onyx oven. What's everyone's thought as far as using a water pan? I did a brisket once before in the onyx without the pan and I feel like that hurt me and Temps were all over the place.
> If I don't use the pan, I'll probably put fat side down, but if I use the pan I'll put fat up. Just curious what thoughts are in regards to using the water pan.
> The onyx oven is vertical style cooker, so the heat is directly under the meat.
> I appreciate any and all input.



How about lining a water pan with tin foil and fill it with sand?  I do that in my electric and it really does a great job of stabilizing the temps.  It also uses less electricity.


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## bgosnell151

Xray said:


> Here's my first attempt
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> The thinner portion of the flat was more tender and juicy. The thicker part was tender but kinda dry. What did I do wrong?
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> Here's the details in a thread I started:
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/245763/smoking-a-small-2lb-brisket#post_1557308



Hard to say, but it sounds like it may have been undercooked a little in the thicker part.  Test it by putting a therm into it.  When it slides in easy, it is done.  Can't really go by temp on a brisket as every one is done at a different temp.
As someone else mentioned, better to be a little overdone than not done enough.  You can cut the thin part off and chop it with some sauce... It's fabulous that way.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Xray.  Did you say a prayer and make an offering to the GREAT SMOKING GODS??  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  Tennessee whiskey works well for the offering!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   All briskets are different.  Without more info I would think the thicker part was under-cooked.  IF! you have a really thin end; cut that sucker off;   Wrap in foil and put it in the cool spot on the smoker or even in the oven on warm.  Then continue with your rat killin.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## cousineau18

So I am getting ready to smoke (2) 12# briskets and have a quick question. Here is my usual process. I smoke with my 30MES Propane smoker. I have done about 6 briskets and all have turned out pretty great except one where I undercooked it (darn lack of sleep got the best of me). I cook at 215 to 225, fat side up. I wrap in butcher paper at 155 to 160 depending on the color and take off anywhere from 195 to 199.

So during each cook I always have one side always a little "Soggy" and the other side is perfect? If I am not mistaken the side that I have face down is the soggy side. So do you all recommend flipping it to fat side down after I put on the butcher paper half way through wrapping it? Lets say around 180 or so?

Any ideas would be great.


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## nctim

Well Danny, I think I've found my problem. I'm originally from Texas and have eaten some killer brisket in my day. Having lived in North Carolina for 35 years I guess the low-and-slow has gotten into my blood. It seems to me that the low and slow method dries all the moisture out of a relatively thin piece of meat while the hot and quick method preserves the moisture necessary to achieve the juicy beef. My methods have always revolved around the fact that collagen(the elastic stuff that makes meat tough) breaks down around 210-215°. The longer I can keep the temp near there the better the break down, and thus, more tender meat.

So, if fast and hot is the way to go, how long does the beef stay at the desired temp. Or, does your brisket reach and stay at this temp while foiled and resting?

NCtim


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## kc5tpy

Hello Tim.  I think you are trying to mix two methods.  I may be misunderstanding.  What I am reading is that you were doing low and slow and then holding the temp at 205-215 for a time to allow the collagen to break down.  Am I correct?

Once you reach that 190-215 temp., depending on what you are looking for; that brisket is done!

I think with low and slow you do have to look out for drying out.  The opposite can be said for hotter and faster.  You run the risk of the brisket being tougher.  The rest time also becomes important.  Do you have the proper time to rest it or are you serving folks and it "must be now!"  In that case I think hotter is better because you can "take it over done a bit and still serve a moist brisket, even though it will not slice, it will fall apart.  I would never say one way is better than the other.  I have had success and failure with both methods.  IF I have all my ducks in a row I would cook my brisket between 325 and 375.  Take it to an IT of 195-200.  Wrap and place in a cooler for 2-4 hours.  I like sliced brisket; not fall apart brisket (when talking BBQ).  I do like a fall apart (fatty. working on my first heart attack) brisket done in the oven.  Slow cooked with an au jus.  Fantastic!

Try it a couple ways and see what works for your family.  Experiment a little.  When you find YOUR way then you will have it for life.  You will not ruin a brisket; some will just be better than others.  If it is too dry; make Texas Red chili out of the left overs.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## aggie94

Cousin,

      I don't use butcher paper (haven't order it yet) so take this for what its worth.  Is it still catching lots of liquid, enough to pour off?  If so you may could drain some off and see if that helps.  And the next time you smoke one you could flip it over half way through and see if that helps.

Third option would be to take it out of the butcher paper when its almost done, put soggy side up and smoke it another half hour.  Lets us know your results.  By the way are you resting it after you take it off?


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## nctim

Hey Danny,

We eat it hot and cut chunks, not sliced. No way to slice my brisket, believe me, I've tried a couple of times. My wife makes the church lady (what I call the "funeral brisket") bisket that all the ladies in Weimer serve at funerals. Slow baked in the oven in big aluminum pans with some sauce. I enjoy that, too.

Tim


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  ABSOLUTELY!  Big chunks of good oven cooked brisket!  Braised in a small amount of liquid.  At serving time it comes down to: " HEY!  HEY!  Don't trim that fat off for me!  I'll deal with that myself!"  Thank you very much!  "Slowly back away from that fat and don't make any sudden moves!"  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I do like to try to get my smoked brisket "sliceable".  It is a very fine line.  I don't always achieve that;  but so long as it is tender and not dry I figure it'll do.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## nctim

Yeah, I usually cook the big briskets on my Carolina cooker pit. It stays the same temp for hours. My wife's are faster in the oven so we'll do flats or points in there. She's gotten to liking the brisket bags for the oven in the last couple of years, I like them covered in foil in an aluminum pan better. I'll have to try the resting version and slice. I love me some sliced brisket sammies.

Tim


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## jmoritz

Ajsmokes said:


> I think meat quality makes a big difference.


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## jmoritz

Ya I would have to agree on meat quality making a big difference.  I'm in Kansas and we raise our own beef.  The only ones we keep to butcher all rate at the top of the list. We go through a very strict feeding regimen for the last 90 days and change their rations weekly according to how the beef is finishing according to our nutritionist.  I'm very lucky to have great beef but I guess we're the ones freezing to death delivering the calves and sweating to death finishing them. That being said. I love smoking briskets. I'm no expert but the ones I do at home beat the local smoke shops in Wichita hands down every time. I thaw them slowly over a couple days, rub em and let me sit over night then put em on to about 195 then rest in cooler for an hour and then me and the family just die over em.  Never bought one but I think you get what you pay for


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## pink flamingo

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Having a lot fun smokin brisket and ribs for my friends.
First started smoking after building my reverse flow last year in May. Did my first brisket before doing my 2nd big smoke in October. It was good, but not as good as all the others I've done since. Gary S was who helped me by sharing his method. I've mostly used Jeff's Naked Rib Rub, however, I like Texas Style too. Now I'm going to have to try no rub and trim after slicing. The best results I've had was this last 4th of July weekend were I cooked for co-workers to pick up and take home, and a next door neighbor who supplied his own and gave me one. It was 5 Briskets, 3 of them were black angus 16-18 lbs. The other 2 were select 10 pounders. All were trimmed while cold. I don't use salt in my rub mixture. I dust Kosher salt before applying yellow mustard (unless it's Texas style, olive oil then salt and pepper). Using a large foil pan helps retain the rub as its applied. While the meat is coming up to room temp, I build my fire with Lazzari's Lump (a full 40lb bag) and wait till the cooking chamber reaches around 300 and the smoke is hardly noticeable. Then the meat laid in. I use almond wood mostly for it's availability. When I cut the rounds with my chain saw to make chunks, the saw dust is saved. I'll push the coals away from the fire box door and lay the saw dust right inside the door where it's not touching the coals. This will last for about 1 to 1-1/2 hours adding lump or chunks to help maintain temp between 225-250. At 170 internal temp, I'll double foil wrap and finish at around 205-207. The one thing I did this last time that made the biggest difference was letting them rest in a cooler wrapped up in a beach towel for 3 hours! 













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## jcbigler

Oh man that looks so good. Points to you. Thumbs Up


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## bigsmoketexas

Is wagyu worth buying compared to a prime?


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## cowboy11

Depending on how many brisket cooks you have behind you, should be a consideration. If your techniques for cooking brisket are good then WAGYU could be for you. 

However, if you are own your first or second brisket cook maybe you want to refine your cooking techniques. 

IMHO the greatest piece of meat cannot make up for a poorly cooked piece of meat. 

My 2 cents. 

Keep on smoking.


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## oakwood bob

Aggie94 said:


> Hi everyone, its the first time admitting I have a problem, that's why I've come here seeking professional help.  I'm 51 years old, I'm from Texas, and I have a hard time producing good brisket.  There, that's like confessing my deepest darkest secret.  I even lived most of my life in a city known as "Cowtown"!  The Chisholm Trail ran right through town.  The first 37 years I never bothered to smoke a brisket, good barbecue was easy to find.  Then I moved to the region of pump jacks and dust storms.  No cows out here and barbecue is as hard to find as trees (none of those either).  So I bought a smoker at HEB to make my own briskets, smoked them over oak wood.  What I ended up with looks good, smells good, but is as elastic as a rubber band.  I've watched BBQ competitions on TV trying to pick up hints, I've watched Franklin's videos online, I've even resorted to cheating by putting the brisket on the smoker for 4 or 5 hours and then putting it in the oven for 4 or 5 hours.  That has finally helped make it editable, but I would like to be able to cook it entirely on the smoker.  I've gone back and tried to help the airflow problem of my offset smoker.  I've installed 2 additional temp gauges in the smoker and it has helped to get a better idea of actual temperature closer to the grate.  Recently I've purchased a Thermopop meat thermometer and hope this helps me better understand where I am at different times in the cooking process.  I've looked into attending a "brisket school" at Texas A&M Meat Science Dept but don't have the time and money.  I've even considered buying a competition smoker like some of the winning teams on TV, but seems excessive for making a good sandwich.  I'm losing the respect of my wife and family, how many times must I hear her ask "Is the brisket going to be ready in time for dinner"?  Danny I need help.  Sure I can smoke a pork loin easily, but in Texas if it isn't beef brisket it isn't barbecue!
> 
> Signed,
> Deeply embarrassed


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## oakwood bob

Hello Aggie94. What grade of brisket have u been purchasing? If ur purchasing select grade..then it'll usually come out crappy. U wanna go choice, or, if money permits, prime.


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## cowboy11

You need to post an hour by hour log of how you did your last smoke. It will help zero in on things. Do you wrap? What temp do you take it to before you put in the rest mode?

Many variables to consider.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Aggie94.  "Will the brisket be ready in time for dinner"?  HORRIBLE question.  We have all heard it.  I know folks need to eat but brisket has a mind of it's own.

I agree with cowboy11; we should a step by step.  BUT! I do not agree that it is the "quality" of the brisket.  YES! I do agree that if you start with quality ingredients the final product will be improved but the whole purpose of low and slow and BBQ was  invented because the poor folks could only afford the crap cuts of meat.  Let's face it; if not cooked properly a brisket is a worthless piece of meat!  Like skirt steak ( fajitas ) if noy done properly it would make good shoe soles.

You are using an offset.  I used an offset for years.  I will not presume to know your method; I will tell you what I do.  This is NOT "kosher" so to speak; it is just how I do it:  I don't worry about the grill temp.  So long as it is around 250-375 I leave it to cook.  WHAT I DO is to move the brisket to different parts of the grill ANDI roll the brisket and swap ends every 1-11/2 hours depending on temp..  I have never used a therm. so I can not give you numbers.  What I can tell you is a packer can be cooked in about 8-10 hours on an offset.  Now I am not talking about "bark" and "smoke ring",  Good eating, tender brisket.

Don't stress over brisket.  Just turn it ( mabe baste it ) and relax.  Brisket is not a throw it in and forget it hunk of meat.

Just my opinion.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## jcbigler

KC5TPY said:


> Hello Aggie94.  "Will the brisket be ready in time for dinner"?  HORRIBLE question.  We have all heard it.




My standard reply when I get that question from my family is, "probably not. You might want to grab a burger or hotdog if you are really hungry."  It usually shuts them up, because they know if they fill up on burgers or hot dogs, then there will just be more brisket for ME!  :sausage:


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## kc5tpy

Hello JC.  YEP!  I have started briskets early and started briskets late.  I have had the early starters finish late and the late starters finish early.  Same cooking temps doesn't seem to matter in my experience.  They just seem to have a mind of there own.

The ONE thing that I think makes a difference is smoke as many of the same briskets on YOUR smoker.  What I mean by that is buy your brisket from one supplier, keep what fat content you prefer and use a temp. range.  Learn YOUR smoker with a certain type brisket.  Don't try to smoke an untrimmed packer and then the next time a trimmed flat.  Learn to smoke which ever you prefer before moving on.  Keep each brisket as close to the last brisket you smoked as possible.  If you are buying "over the counter" brisket to save money ( I understand that ); you don't know the age of the animal but try to keep the fat content the same and the aging.  This is only my experience; others may have different.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## mclinux

I agree with the guys who say 'learn your smoker'.  Knowing what your smoker will and won't do...and how to get and maintain a constant temp is just as important as quality and consistency of you cut of brisket.  For example, I know that if my smoke chamber temp gauge (2/3 way up on the barrel) says 250, the temp down at cooking level is 225.  The temp at your cooking level is what you really need to know.  And, each of the last two offsets I've had were different.  So, you have GOT TO know your equipment, quite literally top to bottom.

The other thing to keep in mind is most of the time, we are not smoking to turn into the judges.  Honestly, some of the meats at competition cook-offs look great, but are really dry.  They cover with sauce to add flavor AND moisture back to the bite.  Most of us cook for the family and friends where taste wins all contests.

I smoke using hickory and burn a fire only big enough to keep temp steady.  (Hint: a couple lumps of charcoal can help keep things steady as wood burns...before you are to the point of adding another log.)  I start with meat prep 24 hours before smoking...final trim and apply my rub.  Cover and let sit in fridge overnight until 2 hours before smoking.  I preheat smoker to 225 and then put meat on fat side up.  Smoke until IT is 160-170 F.  Next, I pull off smoker, and wrap in heavy foil, while I am wrapping the brisket, allow smoker to cool down to 210, then back on smoker (wrapped in foil) and cook until IT is 205-210.  Pull meat, open top of foil and allow to rest for 30 minutes at room temp.  Move meat from foil to platter, slice and serve.  (Sometimes wife take juice and make gravy for mashed potatos).

This gives us a brisket that is moist, slicable and very tender.  I have done 8 lb up to 22 lb cuts this way.  Friends and family really enjoy it, and that's really the competition I want to win.

Keep Smokin'!


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## mr beef

So I work in a butcher shop gonna buy two certified angus brisket should I mechanically tend arise them since I have access to it?


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## jcbigler

Mr beef said:


> So I work in a butcher shop gonna buy two certified angus brisket should I mechanically tend arise them since I have access to it?


No. 

There is no need to tenderize a brisket. If you smoke it properly, it will be super tender.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Mr beef.  JC has ya covered.  Smoked properly that brisket will melt in your mouth.  In fact if you go a little too long it won't slice, it will just fall apart.  Either way it eats good.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## mr beef

Thanks I've read that about different grades of beef doesn't matter done properly will end up with same result (tender) just figured since I can and have access to it if I should


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## jcbigler

Mr beef said:


> Thanks I've read that about different grades of beef doesn't matter done properly will end up with same result (tender) just figured since I can and have access to it if I should



Choice and prime are the ones to get. Prime will take a little more manageme as it has a smaller window for the best doneness. Choice is a little more forgiving. Select will never be as tender as choice or prime can get.

Ive cooked many great briskets with choice. I'm always a little disappointed with select.


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## mr beef

Well I'm getting cab(certified angus beef) at my cost it is only 3.28lb


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## kcjg

Good to see the variety of experiences. Here in KC applying rub is a given. But after years at the Royal I am an Aaron Franklin believer! Let the meat and smoke speak for themselves! Of course low and slow rules but so does the wood.  Cherry and pecan seem to be a good balance.  250-275 for 8-12 usually works depending on weight. MUST have a water pan and recommend a remote thermo. No wrapping or tenting. Good trimming before to remove excess fat and glands essential, though I do think a "low quality" cryovac piece works best. It's all about the fat and time!


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## bigsmoketexas

Gona be cookin for around 100 people. Ive never done this large amount before so would it be wise to get one huge brisket, or a few 10-13 lb ones just incase the one big ass brisket gives problems at 160°? Biggest brisket ive smoked was 18lbs.


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## gary s

That would be a Big A_ _ Brisket to feed 100 people, remember the old saying   "Don't put all your eggs in one basket"

If it were me I'd be cooking several

Gary


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## bigsmoketexas

Thats more what i was leaning to. Gona try to find 3, 12-15 pounders.


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## bensonssmoke

My name is Benson, and this is my Brisket story...

My first full brisket smoke.  Previously smoked flat only on two different occasions with decent results.
Landman Great Outdoors propane smoker (not the wide one that easily holds a full brisket.
15+ lb packer brisket purchased at Costco untrimmed












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__ bensonssmoke
__ Sep 18, 2016





I would say I probably "butchered" my lovely friend a bit, although in the process I clearly learned the point/flat separation.  After trimming the full brisket squeezed into my vertical smoker OK, knowing full well it would keep getting smaller.  I would guess I trimmer off 4-5 lbs of fat, concentrating primarily on the hard fat and a little of leveling on the fat cap.  Seasoned with Montreal and wrapped into fridge for about 6 hours.












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__ bensonssmoke
__ Sep 18, 2016


















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__ bensonssmoke
__ Sep 18, 2016





(This is the end of my pictures - I just lost track of pic taking as things get going)

Brisket went on at 02:30 at 225.  I did fight my temps a bit, but never worse than +\- 20 degrees or so.  06:30 IT is 160 and received spritz.  08:30 IT is 162 with spritz. 09:00 IT is 163 so I wrapped in foil to speed things along, included spritz in foil.  
13:30 IT is approaching 190, and at 190 I check for tenderness using quick read thermo (probe is my toothpick tenderness gauge).  Clearly not toothpick tender, return to smoker with foil opened on top.
(Should note that Baby Backs went in at 11:00 in same chamber). 
197 probe check, still not tender in flat, but the point is like butter.  Separate point and flat, move point to cooler wrapped in towels and return flat to smoker. 
It seems that my IT was just stuck at this point (I probably fail the patience test here), and did not really move.  At 14:30 I probe check and still don't "feel it", so I just remove and wrap.  Meal time is a little after 5 pm.  In the meantime, ribs are really rolling along, and are a little ahead of schedule in the 2-2-1 method.  They get returned to smoker at the 4th hour out of the foil and are pretty much done.  One rack was too tender to hold together and pulled apart, so the last hours was about 20 minutes instead, and they get wrapped to rest in the cooler at 15:30.  

Burnt Ends go on at 16:00 (never did this before), and the point is really tender and juicy.  Burnt ends were great, other than a fail on my end on the right size to cut these.  I just cut them up way too big, but they were a real hit with the family.  
The flat cut at 17:00 was OK.  Meat is tender and has plenty of moisture.  But the "collagen spacing" is not there.  The meat is still very dense.  The pull test is fine, I just don't like it visually.  Usually you see that collagen gap spacing in the pull, and it still looks dense.  
So is this a "cook problem" or does it just have to do with the piece of meat?  Should I have left the flat on longer?  IT never got over 200, so my patience was a fail.  

Overall I am not disappointed with what came out, but I am looking for the perfect cook and want to get better next time.  
Also worth noting, I pretty much read this entire thread before (a little during) this cook to plan ahead.


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## lancep

I would say it just needed to go longer. Most of my briskets go well over 200. The last one I did, was sitting at 201 but the tip of the flat was still a little tough. Ended up pulling it at 204 and it was perfect. Next time, just leave it on there a little longer and you'll be good. 

Lance


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## wbf610

Holy smokes!!!!!  Just got through every post after about 6 hours of reading.  Lots of good information in this thread.  First, I might be fighting a loosing battle from the start.  I was at sams yesterday, and they had flats only, decided to get one before reading this thread.  It has a nice layer of fat on it, so that may help me out a bit.  Need to find a source of packers.  I have a Costco opening here soon, will have to check them out.  I'm planning to try the flat this weekend and have devised a plan based on the suggestions in this thread.  I'll take plenty of notes and pics, and post something up after I'm done with it this weekend.

I'm new, and like to think and plan out what limited smokes i have done to this point, maybe a bit on the retentive side.

Plan,

Friday evening:  This is all dependent on the weather and if it's supposed to rain or not (smoker is uncovered at this point)

1) Unpack, rinse, pat dry, check out the fat and trim some if needed, looking to keep around 1/4" on it.

2) Rub my meat with SPOG, and maybe a little paprika, brown sugar (wife likes a little sweetness in her meat), and some cumin. Wrap and Rest in fridge over night.

3) Get smoking supplies prepositioned inside so I don't have to make a ton of noise Saturday morning.

Saturday, as early as I can get my butt out of bed in the AM: Hopefully by 6AM

3) Retrieve flat from fridge, and place on counter.

4) Load up smoker pans with charcoal mix (KBB and lump for initial heat) and smoking wood (mix of 3/4 cherry and 1/4 apple chunks, and chips, it's all I have right now), and get it in the smoker.

5) Get drip pans water pans in the smoker.

5) start up a 1/4-1/2 a chimney of charcoal mix, and get remote thermometer on the grate.

6) Dump lit chimney on the other coals, and wait for smoker to get up to at least 240.

7) transfer flat to smoker, doing fat side up. Close lid and monitor temps with target of 225-240.

              7a.  cook breakfast for the family.  Might grill some sausage and potatoes over the coals.

8) Insert probe and check IT after 4-5 hours. 

9) Let IT get to at least 165, and make decision to crutch or not.  Probably going to since it's just the flat.  Wrap with foil and add a minimal amount of liquid (undecided) to the foil. place back on rack.  Probe IT from a few areas before wrapping just to be sure.

10) Monitor both temps, light and add more coals if needed.

11) Take it to an IT of 195, open foil and toothpick test for tenderness.  Remove when it is like "butter".

12) wrap foil tightly again, wrap in a few towels, place in a pre-warmed cooler for 2-4 hours, depending on how long it takes to get to this point, and when I wanna eat it.

13) Bring out of cooler, slice at 1/4 against grain, marvel in the awesomeness I just created, and eat it.

Saturday night/early AM Sunday:

14) Complain because i'm stuffed because I ate too much delicious brisket.

15) Eat more brisket 

If I've missed anything, please advise, or let me know if my plan is flawed.  It will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!


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## cowboy11

Sounds like a plan

enjoy and have fun


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## kc5tpy

GO FOR IT!!!  Good luck!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## horkeyrider

Say Bama, can you tell me about Blacks Rub? What's in it or what kind of flavor it adds?

Thanks,


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## bigsmoketexas

Just saw kileens rub in a local grocery store, any reviews on it?


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## porknpuha

sometimes I rub with

Bad Byrons and other times just salt and pepper

I like the IT of 195 then wrap and towel and place in cooler for at least 1 and half hours

never failed

I always smoke btwn 220 -250 normally takes a flat 7 - 11 hrs and a packer can take longer, prefer flats get em from Sams club $4.27 / pound.


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## bigsmoketexas

Goin to do my first brisket injection this weekend. 


When should i inject? The night before when i rub it? Or right when im about to throw it in the smoker?


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## lemans

Nite before


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## stickyfingers

Refresh my memory......205-210 finish temp?


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## bruno994

Sticky, anytime after the brisket gets to 200 degrees, it could finish up. My suggestion would be to check it with a toothpick every 3 to 4 degrees after the 200 degree mark.  Majority of my briskets finish toothpick tender (easily push in a toothpick like into butter) above the 208 mark.  Once you pull it, don't forget the single most important part of a brisket cook, the rest, minimal 2 hours. The hunk of meat ideally needs to be back down in the 160's on IT before a knife ever hits it.  I try and give them at least a 4 hour rest, seems to be the sweet spot.


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## ghaith

Hey guys 
this is my first post and im desperate for your help.
Where i live we dont have premium briskets i had to teach the Butcher how to cut the brisket in the first place. Unlike US we dont have grading like choice or prime.
However im starting my own pit bbq place, do u think i have to tenderize the briaket with acid base marination to ensure its tender the apply dry rub, or should i go with different smoking technique like let it smoke for 2 hours unwrapped then foil it loosely until IT 165 then wrap it tightly until 205.
Thanks in advance for ur help


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## lemans

Hold on.. you smoke the brisket until you reach a color you like . Dark Mohogany.. then you wrap it in butcher paper until IT hit 205. Then you let it rest an hour or two.. 2 hour smoke? You might as well cook it in the oven!!!


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## ghaith

Yea but i use foil instead












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__ ghaith
__ Jun 1, 2017





But still its tough, do u think i should marinate it with with acid like vinegar for few hours?? To increase my chancea to be tender


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## ozsmoker

Lemans said:


> Hold on.. you smoke the brisket until you reach a color you like . Dark Mohogany.. then you wrap it in butcher paper until IT hit 205. Then you let it rest an hour or two.. 2 hour smoke? You might as well cook it in the oven!!!





ghaith said:


> Yea but i use foil instead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screenshot_20170601-205555.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ ghaith
> __ Jun 1, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But still its tough, do u think i should marinate it with with acid like vinegar for few hours?? To increase my chancea to be tender



Do not marinate

How long are you cooking it for total and at what temperature?

It could be the quality of the meat, but even then, it shouldn't be that tough

You should be smoking at around 250F cooking temperature anywhere from 6-10 hours (+/- 2hrs), then wrap in foil or butcher paper or leave unwrapped and continue cooking until done. usually anywhere between 195-205 Fahrenheit

Have you tested your thermometer? A brisket is done when a probe/toothpick slides in like butter. Start checking around 195F.

Try using a water pan in the smoker, otherwise you may wish to spritz every hour with worcestershire sauce or water or apple cider vinegar

What smoker are you using? If temperatures are not consistent, you may be better off trying to bake a brisket in the oven, low and slow, but it would be a good idea to try and get some smoke flavor first (eg 4 hours in the smoker)

also, when done, make sure you rest it at least an hour. you want the temperature of the brisket to come back down, say to 160F before slicing. keep it wrapped for the resting time, but if wrapped in foil, let it air out for about 30 mins unwrapped, then wrap and rest.

good luck


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## bruno994

Completely agree with Oz, marinating a brisket is a futile process, injecting is better for such thick cuts of meat, marinating works well for chicken pieces and steaks, just not brisket.

Agree also that a brisket is not done, no matter what the IT says, until you can easily slide a toothpick or your therm probe into like a knife into butter.  At this point, pull it, vent it and rest.  

Oz suggests at least 1 hour, which is minimum, I strongly suggest you rest no less than 3 hours, preferably 4.  After a good 10-15 minute venting of the steam inside the foil, put it in a cooler with big beach towels on top to help hold the heat in better, after 3 to 4 hours, the temp should be right around 160, the idea temp to slice.  Huge suggestion, if you are planning on opening a BBQ joint, a large Cambro (or Cambros) will be a must for holding the meat during it's rest prior to serving.


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## marauderrt10

Hey guys I just got a camp chef stx for my birthday coming up. Im new to the whole smoke game my expertise is dry aging beef.I'm going to be getting a brisket soon what's the optimal size packer for my smoker? What temp would be good? And what type of wood for my pellet smoker? The wood combo I have close to me is 60% maple/20% hickory/20% cherry. Is that a good combo? And since the heat comes from below the center of the grate do I offset the brisket and does it go fat side down???


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## lancep

Ok, after a very quick look at your smoker, just get a brisket. You should be able to fit just about any brisket on there. I  recommend whole packers instead of flats because they just come out better. It looks like you have a diffuser so I wouldn't worry too much about placement. Cap up or cap down is a matter of preference but I prefer cap up because I burned myself once going cap down. As far as wood (pellets) I'm a firm believer in burn what you have. Yes, you can use different woods as any other ingredient but it's really just different flavors of good. At the end of the day, the only two things you have to do is put it on the smoker and wait for it to be done. 

Lance


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## marauderrt10

LanceP said:


> Ok, after a very quick look at your smoker, just get a brisket. You should be able to fit just about any brisket on there. I  recommend whole packers instead of flats because they just come out better. It looks like you have a diffuser so I wouldn't worry too much about placement. Cap up or cap down is a matter of preference but I prefer cap up because I burned myself once going cap down. As far as wood (pellets) I'm a firm believer in burn what you have. Yes, you can use different woods as any other ingredient but it's really just different flavors of good. At the end of the day, the only two things you have to do is put it on the smoker and wait for it to be done.
> 
> Lance


so for say a 10-12lb packer how long would I smoke it for and what temp? I plan on putting it on the smoker at 12am at night and I was hoping to pull it around 12pm lunchtime.


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## lancep

Are you trying to serve it a noon? Temp and time are dependent upon each other. Also, do you plan to wrap it? Every hunk of meat is different. They stall at different temps and for different durations of time. For a 10-12lb packer, Twelve hours could be cutting it close. I've also heard that pellet smokers don't put out much smoke at higher temps but I've never used one. So let's say this, put it on at 9pm @225. At 5am wrap it in a double layer of HD foil. Check IT periodically and when it hits 200 start probing. Once you can probe it anywhere and the probe slides in which no resistance, pull it off, wrap it in a towel and put it in a dry cooler till about a half hour before you want to slice.


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## marauderrt10

LanceP said:


> Are you trying to serve it a noon? Temp and time are dependent upon each other. Also, do you plan to wrap it? Every hunk of meat is different. They stall at different temps and for different durations of time. For a 10-12lb packer, Twelve hours could be cutting it close. I've also heard that pellet smokers don't put out much smoke at higher temps but I've never used one. So let's say this, put it on at 9pm @225. At 5am wrap it in a double layer of HD foil. Check IT periodically and when it hits 200 start probing. Once you can probe it anywhere and the probe slides in which no resistance, pull it off, wrap it in a towel and put it in a dry cooler till about a half hour before you want to slice.


no I plan on serving it for dinner? Say around 3-4?


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## lancep

Ok, then midnight should be good if you're wrapping. Wrap around 8am and you should be fine. If you want to go unwrapped, I would start earlier as it can stall for hours at lower temps. The last thing you want to do is pull it early. If you haven't read this whole thread, almost every single failure was due to pulling it early. 

Lance


----------



## marauderrt10

LanceP said:


> Ok, then midnight should be good if you're wrapping. Wrap around 8am and you should be fine. If you want to go unwrapped, I would start earlier as it can stall for hours at lower temps. The last thing you want to do is pull it early. If you haven't read this whole thread, almost every single failure was due to pulling it early.
> 
> Lance


in your opinion do you wrap? If say I didn't wrap it how much longer does it usually take?


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## lancep

I can't answer that. I've always wrapped and I've never cared to fix what ain't broke. Not wrapping will add more time but how much will depend on a number of variables, some of which can't be accounted for.


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## marauderrt10

LanceP said:


> I can't answer that. I've always wrapped and I've never cared to fix what ain't broke. Not wrapping will add more time but how much will depend on a number of variables, some of which can't be accounted for.


 ok so I'll take your suggestion and wrap it. Thank you sir!


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## lancep

Just make sure to post your results so we can all see how it came out. Good luck and happy smoking!!

Lance


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## marauderrt10

Well the only place around me that has brisket is 5.99/lb and all others carry USDA prime for 6.99/lb I'm going to be getting a 15lber and the gentleman nick at johns butcher shop in Nj is going to trim the deckle for me to keep the costs down. He said he smokes too and he seemed very knowledgeable and was quite honest that he wishes the prices were lower. We shall see!!!


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## lancep

Sadly, it seems you northern folk pay through the nose for brisket.


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## marauderrt10

LanceP said:


> Sadly, it seems you northern folk pay through the nose for brisket.


yea its crazy. I told the guy the prices some people are paying for USDA prime from Costco and he couldn't believe it. Wish I could find USDA Prime for 2.89/lb!


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## lancep

Me too! Memphis area Costcos don't carry the prime packers. I can usually pick up choice packers at Walmart for $2.99lb in the fall. But the rest of the year, you're lucky to find select packers period. 

Lance


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## theyankeesmoker

Hi Folks,

The Yankee is here.

I always get a flat brisket. And I'm ashamed to say, I honesty have no clue what the different cut of briskets are.i do know it can make a difference.

When I pick a brisket I look for fat on one side, and a decent amount of marbling. The marking helps keeps it juicy and (for those who don't know,it's the fat that runs through the beef). Than I do a custom rub. Paprika, garlic powder, pepper, salt, brown sugar, onion powder, and whatever else I want to put in there. I let the rub sit overnight at least. I aim for bark.

Next morning I'm out there getting the coals warmed up. I throw on either mesquite or hickory, and a few apple or cherry chunks. I plop the meat down when it hits around 300. Now my smoker is by no means fancy (plenty of leaks, and not even sure if the temp is right), but it works.

I've read about different ways. Injecting it, mopping it, brining it, etc. I never have done anything fancy like that. One thing I do do, since my smoker is not electric and I get so excited I put too much coal in and it gets too hot, I put some apple juice on the bottom (helps cools and can add flavor).

Once the internal temp hits about 185, I wrap in foil. I also have taken the brisket out of the smoker, wrapped in foil and finished in the oven. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and it had no effect on the end result.

I usually let the brisket sit, but sometimes my wife gets too excited and just cuts right in. Sacrilegious I know, but it always comes out juicy and tender.

That's my input here. Don't get too fancy. If I can make it juicy with a nice bark and a cheap $100 smoker with holes, so can you. I'll be doing some pork butt and brisket for father's day and will be sure to post pics. Ones attached are from the past year.













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__ Jun 7, 2017


















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__ theyankeesmoker
__ Jun 7, 2017


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## lemans

So the lesson here is: if it is good and the family likes it then that it matters.. who are you cooking for? The family or the internet???


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## theyankeesmoker

Lemans said:


> So the lesson here is: if it is good and the family likes it then that it matters.. who are you cooking for? The family or the internet???



For me, it's family and friends.


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## lemans

Me toon


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## johnnyblaze

So excited, once the cow tips ((https://www.crowdcow.com/l/ujmozkaxw/17)) I should have an 11 pound brisket on the way. 

Now in the past I have had success with curing and smoking to make pastrami. However, this time I am trying to keep it simple so the taste of the meat comes through. I was planning just to salt and pepper and smoke it slow and low as many people have recommended on this thread.

Of course pics will follow.


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## zeusmiester

I taught my children how to do brisket they have modified their cooks to suit themselves. One minor problem they all had and I have to admit sometimes I am not real clear on it is which way to slice across the grain after it is cooked. Brisket goes in three different directions. What we do is to look at the brisket before it is cooked and put three slight cuts at the nexus so after it is cooked you can see which way the grain runs in which section. This way you always get a tender slice through the whole brisket.


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## johnnyblaze

Question: my brisket is a few inches too big for the smoker tray. Should I cut it to fit? Or put it in as is and expect that it will shrink before it is done? 













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__ johnnyblaze
__ Jul 1, 2017


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## drunkenmeatfist

Smoking a 11 lb brisket now. It is choice bought at $1.49 a pound for a 4th of July sale.


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## max2

Johnnyblaze said:


> Question: my brisket is a few inches too big for the smoker tray. Should I cut it to fit? Or put it in as is and expect that it will shrink before it is done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20170701_075100.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ johnnyblaze
> __ Jul 1, 2017


You basically have those 2 options - Trim a few inches so it fits (this will give you a snack before the rest is done) OR  knowing that it will shrink go ahead and put it in like it is.  Personally I have put one in that was about an inch or so too big and it was fine since it did shrink.  They all shrink some.


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## max2

DrunkenMeatFist said:


> Smoking a 11 lb brisket now. It is choice bought at $1.49 a pound for a 4th of July sale.


Congrats on the great price!

I thought my score of $1.77 at albertsons market for choice was good but your price is outstanding!


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## lemans

Two ways I can think of. Put it in as is . It will definitely shrink or separate the point from the flat.. if you can't do them side by side then smoke the flat and then the point..


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## texas19delta

I bought my first whole packer brisket (prime) will be smoking Sunday I'm going to do slat and pepper only and smoke with lump charcoal and oak chunks. I plan on wrapping with butcher paper instead of foil. Hope to maintain a 250 temp it's 12.5lbs currently. Will post picks of the process and the out come. Following the franklin trimming and smoking method from his videos. I figured it can't hurt to try his theory and I can adapt it moving forward if necessary.


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## supernaut

Glad I stumbled upon this thread and grateful for all the tips and advice provided. MIL recently picked up an 8lb flat from Sam's but paid a hefty price of at least 4 bucks a lb. Not being too savvy I guess she didnt even question it. I wouldnt have paid that but hey I'm just the cook.
Fired up the grill, rinsed, trimmed and seasoned with simple SPOG. Allowed the kettle to hit 250* according to the dome therm and put her on indirectly in the Kingsford comp and cherry rich atmosphere.
Only lid lifting was done to move meat in relation to snake advancement. After 6 hrs I had to extend the snake so there was about a 10 min lull as the meat sat on the sidelines. At the 8 hr mark I probed for an IT of 170 so I foil panned it and put her back in the dark. At the 10 hr mark I did a toothpick test and figured I had about another hour to go so I did just that. At 11 hours I peeled back the foil for another probe test and was satisfied with results and checked the IT which was at 203*. Recovered in the pan and allowed to rest for another 1.5 hrs prior to slicing. Thanks to the previous posters' advice, I employed alot of patience and used time and tenderness to track the meat in lieu of IT which is my normal MO. Hunk of meat turned out excellent and was given kudos by the in-laws for my efforts ad the final product!













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__ Jul 2, 2017


















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## papasmoker

This is such a good thread! I'm in the same boat of have a dry brisket. I have only tried flats, mostly because I can't fit a whole one in on my shelf. I saw someone suggest keeping the point and just halving it. I might try that. 

One thing I didn't see was pre cook routines. How does everyone treat it? 

Do you marinate it? If you are, how long? 
Looks like most people prefer EVOO & SPOG for their rub. How long are you letting the rub sit? 24 hrs? 12hrs? Or just right before the smoke?

Thanks!

My Process:

I maranate it in a mixture of beef broth, catsup, and soy sauce overnight. I take it out of the fridge for about an hour and then rub it down while the smoker gets ready. I smoke it around 225 uncovered (I use a water pan). I start to mop it once IT hits 145. I mop in once an hour until IT hits 170 then I wrap it in foil and pull it off around 200. I then wrap it up with towels and put it in a cooler for a couple of hours. Flavor is good but always dry.


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## Rings Я Us

At papa, do you let the brisket drop down 20 or 30 degrees in a rest with open foil before you wrap it and hold it? I think pulling at 200 and then going right to a towel wrap and cooler for the hold is allowing the brisket to just keep cooking at to high of a temp.. 
 Try to rest it 30 minutes and then rewrap at like 180 or 170 . Then hold it in the cooler.  Although maybe someone else has better knowledge.


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## Rings Я Us

PapaSmoker said:


> This is such a good thread! I'm in the same boat of have a dry brisket. I have only tried flats, mostly because I can't fit a whole one in on my shelf. I saw someone suggest keeping the point and just halving it. I might try that.
> 
> One thing I didn't see was pre cook routines. How does everyone treat it?
> 
> Do you marinate it? If you are, how long?
> Looks like most people prefer EVOO & SPOG for their rub. How long are you letting the rub sit? 24 hrs? 12hrs? Or just right before the smoke?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> My Process:
> 
> I maranate it in a mixture of beef broth, catsup, and soy sauce overnight. I take it out of the fridge for about an hour and then rub it down while the smoker gets ready. I smoke it around 225 uncovered (I use a water pan). I start to mop it once IT hits 145. I mop in once an hour until IT hits 170 then I wrap it in foil and pull it off around 200. I then wrap it up with towels and put it in a cooler for a couple of hours. Flavor is good but always dry.


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## Rings Я Us

I'm new here. I just joined today. 

I have this packer going on a free Brinkmann I picked up and modified. I see my packer is at least 4 or 5 inches longer than the ECB grate. But I'm gonna put it on as is. I'm gonna foil the tips that are jammed into the smoker and hang over into the heat coming up around the water pan. [emoji]128512[/emoji] I will remove the foil after the thing shrinks up lol. Just salt N pepper this smoke.. in about 5 hours. [emoji]9749[/emoji]  Good luck on all your future smokes.


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## Rings Я Us

Oh.. Forgot my pic of the tiny Brinkmann grate and brisket













IMG_20170703_205117.jpg



__ Rings Я Us
__ Jul 3, 2017


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## papasmoker

Rings R Us said:


> At papa, do you let the brisket drop down 20 or 30 degrees in a rest with open foil before you wrap it and hold it? I think pulling at 200 and then going right to a towel wrap and cooler for the hold is allowing the brisket to just keep cooking at to high of a temp..
> Try to rest it 30 minutes and then rewrap at like 180 or 170 . Then hold it in the cooler.  Although maybe someone else has better knowledge.



I think you are on to something here.  I have been pulling it straight off and into the cooler. I was afraid opening it up would let to much mosture evoprate. I saw someone post on this thread that they put it into a foil pan them cover it. I'm going to try that and then I can let it cool in it's juice before wrapping it up. 

Thanks!


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## Rings Я Us

Saw some other people mention they let rest open on the counter for a few and then wrap again. Yep.. May help some.


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## killswitch

Epic day with my first use of my Dyna-Glo smoker. I have been up for 34 hours at this point and to those of you who do this on a regular basis I salute you.

Brisket turned our surprisingly great and I credit that entirely to this forum and the 30+ pages of "Let's talk brisket". I started at 2:00 AM and kept it low and slow over night. Pulled it when the IT was 204 and my thermometer pierced 3 of the sides like warm butter. The 4th side still had a bit of resistance. Into a warmed cooler in a bunch of blankets for 3 hours which
produced nice pencil thick slices that came apart with a very light tug with a noticible smoke ring. 3 racks of ribs also turned out great with a fantastic smoke flavor. Both exceeded my expectations and while I am exhausted my family and friends loved the food. Thanks to everyone I got ideas from on this forum including the home made minion basket I welded up. Very satisfied with how both meats turned out and I am looking forward to my next go at it although I doubt I would do the over night plan again... Happy 4th of July!!














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__ Jul 4, 2017


















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## Rings Я Us

Good job KSwitch. You earned your keep and sleep. [emoji]128512[/emoji][emoji]128077[/emoji]


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## Rings Я Us

IMG_20170704_205846.jpg



__ Rings Я Us
__ Jul 5, 2017


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## Rings Я Us

Had fun cooking on the 4th . Brisket was just right. Juicy.. soft...good flavor and mouth feel. Could have used more ring. I didn't use much wood at all. Handful of hickory chunks.. Could taste it though [emoji]128512[/emoji]













IMG_20170704_191044.jpg



__ Rings Я Us
__ Jul 5, 2017





 pic before a 2 hour hold in cooler.


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## killswitch

Looks delicious! Seriously excited about some more ribs and brisket today!


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## Rings Я Us

Killswitch said:


> Looks delicious! Seriously excited about some more ribs and brisket today!


 we all want more ! Gimmy Gimmy! [emoji]129299[/emoji]


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## papasmoker

Rings Я Us
 thanks for the tip. I let them rest on the counter with the top open until it was down to 175  at that point Inclosed the foil, wrapped it in a few towels and then put it in a cooler for 3 hours. Turned out spectular! If we ever meet in a pub I owe you a beer :).


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## Rings Я Us

Oh nice! [emoji]127866[/emoji]   yum!


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## Rings Я Us

I have a whole point left from yesterday.. thinking about cubes and burnt ends. I guess it would still be good to do.


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## Rings Я Us

Worked out well 













IMG_20170706_001512.jpg



__ Rings Я Us
__ Jul 6, 2017


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## papasmoker

That looks amazing. I have a couple of points left over as well. I was thinking of doing burnt ends this weekend. Would you be will to share your recipe and process?


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## Rings Я Us

I did a.topic in beef I bumped it. Called.   A beginner's trial. Shows the stuff I used.


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## Rings Я Us

Topic with my burnt ends in beef.  It's called.. A beginner's trial. Shows what I used


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## Rings Я Us

PapaSmoker said:


> That looks amazing. I have a couple of points left over as well. I was thinking of doing burnt ends this weekend. Would you be will to share your recipe and process?


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## Rings Я Us

Dam phone!


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## dingo09p

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the post. Are you placing the meat back into smoker wrapped in the butcher paper? 

:grilling_smilie:
Dean.


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## gary s

Dingo09p said:


> Hi Gary,
> 
> Thanks for the post. Are you placing the meat back into smoker wrapped in the butcher paper?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dean.


Yep,  I usually put about 6 - 7 hours on it unwrapped then Wrap in butcher paper

Gary


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## Preacher Man

I'm pretty new to smoking and have learned a ton from this forum. 2 weeks ago I found a Gen1 MES30 for $50 on Craigslist (used once). I really wanted to do a brisket in it (not my first brisket ever...but I've never done a good one). I read every word of this thread earlier in the week - great stuff! 

I started at 3 am - named my brisket "Genesis" (for being my first in the MES30). She was a massive 17.88 lbs packer.
To make it fit, I separated the point and flat. I rubbed her with SPOG and placed the point fat side up on the top shelf, and the flat fat side down on the lower rack.
One probe of my Maverick 733 was on the very top rack to measure smoker temp, and the other in the thickest part of the flat. 
My target temp to smoke was 230°, but it actually averaged out lower than that. I had a little trouble at first getting the temp evened out, but I never had any spikes one way or another.
I smoked it with oak pellets with from my 12" AMZNPTS until 12:30 pm when I wrapped the flat in pink butcher paper. I wanted a thicker bark on the point for burnt tips so I waited until 3pm to wrap the point.
I pulled it at 5:23 pm after a bamboo skewer went through it like a hot knife through butter. I'll include my temperature chart for everyone to see.








After letting it rest on my counter for a little over an hour, I sliced it at 6:35 pm. It was juicy. It was delicious. It was tender. A pencil thick slice held up under it's own weight, then easily pulled apart with a very light pull. It didn't have a smoke ring, but no matter - the oak tasted great on it.  

And then as it started cooling off it _quickly_ got dryer and dryer and dryer. Any ideas why that happened?

And is that a second stall that happened around 2:30pm when it went from 194-189?


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## oldsmokerdude

Welcome to the forum preacher man!!

As far as drying out goes, it looks like you sliced the whole flat at the same time? If so, that will definitely dry out the meat; only slice what you need and leave the rest intact. But regardless, the meat is at it's peak soon as it comes out of the cooker and starts to degrade in tenderness (slightly) and juiciness (more noticeable) immediately. This process is accelerated by slicing the meat.

That said, the brisket looks pretty amazing to me! Nicely done.


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## meatallica

Nice brisky Preacher!


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## ab canuck

Nice looking brisket Preacher. Like.


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## Preacher Man

Thanks for the compliments, fellas. 

Is the brisket getting dry as it cools a fairly regular thing for most guys on here?

Also, what about that dip in temp at 2:30 pm on the graph? Should I have pulled it then, or was that a second stall (never heard of that), or just some weird thing that I should shrug my shoulders at?


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## gnarlykaw

Not to hijack the conversation from ya preacher, but I wanted to post up my brisket from this morning...
Newer smoker to me, OJH.  Im coming from electric SH.  the brisket was 7.98lb, and my plan was to go HOT!  average temp was 255, and I pulled it at 174, and placed it in a pan, and covered it, and readjusted the probe.  if i can figure out how to upload the graph, i will, but had a pretty quick spike in temp.  at one point it was 1/10th of a degree a minute!  it stabled out a bit, but still was moving pretty quick.  it was done in about 6 hours!  194 was the magic number for this piece, and i must have stabbed it 20 times, cuz i couldn't believe it!  pulled the pan, and left it on the counter for a couple of hours, while i waited to finish up the Mac&cheese.  The smoke ring was ok, and it was DONE!  it was juicy, tender, and my family ALL agreed it was perfect!  I did the higher temp due to I wanted it done by dinner.  well, dinner turned into a big lunch instead!


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## theyankeesmoker

Preacher Man
 , looks like you nailed it. To 

 oldsmokerdude
 point, you only cut what you need. My first brisket was nice and juicy, I sliced the whole thing, and it got as dry as the Sahara after a few hours. Never did that again and it's been juicy even after a few days.

Never heard of a second stall. Did it get colder? Get windy? Could be the elements


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