# Electric trash can smoker



## northerner78 (Jul 9, 2017)

So I'm almost done with my trash can build.  The 1000w coil was only getting it to 180-200.  So I went out today and picked up a 1500w trough warmer for horses.  It was thermostatically controlled mean once the water would turn 40° it would turn on.  So I dissected it and broke it down to just the coil.  Now my 1000w coil was a portable burner with a control knob.  Essentially all I did was unplug the old coil and plugged in the new coil.  It did start getting hot but the contact points in the dimmer switch got glowing red.  My question is.  Should I get a more heavy duty dimmer switch? And also what exactly makes something 1500 watts opposed to 1000? Is it the size of the coil? Thanks in advance


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Northerner - Welcome to the Forum !!  

Respectfully,  your post really concerns me safety wise.

To begin with..  If that warmer you got is made to be immersed, chances are it is not AT ALL gonna be suitable used NOT immersed..

Any livestock water warmer I have ever heard of HAS to be fully submerged.

Lot of folks here have made smokers in different enclosures, but the heating element stuff remains pretty much similar or same in most of them.

Probably best to look up posts in this "Electric Smokers" subforum and see what others did.

Lot's of experience in the old posts.

I would be extremely concerned about fire or shock hazard from what you describe.

I would VERY highly recommend getting this below and being done with it.

I don't care if you already spent money you can't get back.

This is the safe and easy way to do it without experimenting..... Plug and play.......as Safe as you can get.    Marc

http://rivercountry101.com/electric-smoker-grill-add-on-replacement-heating-element-controller/


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

And......   Make SURE the body of your enclosure is solidly grounded, AND feed it from a GFI protected outlet.

We want you around here for a long time.

Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Lastly, keep in mind insulating your enclosure can make a BIG difference.

Regular cheap unfaced fiberglass batting used for houses is fine if it works in your installation style scheme.        Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 10, 2017)

Thanks for the info as hard it was to choke down.  The wife isn't to happy I wasted 30$.  But in the name of safety I'll scrap it and do it the right way.  I was looking at that coil you sent me and I kick myself for not choosing it.  I will procure that coil and isulate the can.  Would I put the insulation on the inside or outside? And what would I use to secure it to the sides of the can?


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## northerner78 (Jul 10, 2017)

So I did some looking around and found this "bulk" insulation.

1" Thick Insulwool Ceramic Fiber Fire Retardant Blanket Insulation 


This good stuff?


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Definately outside of smoking chamber for insul.

How to cover ?

Infinite # of  possible ways.

All depends what look you want, how fancy or not you want to get.

And if in rain or not.

Your link looks good,, will shed less than fiberglass batt, but will still need to be covered.

But did you calc out what it will cost?

Your can outside surface area is ballpark 18 ft sq.

So with all kinds of piecing, ya still got about $250.

If you want to cover your can w just one seam you need to order about 7 lin ft of the 4' wide stock.

$392.

Sure you will have scrap, but only one seam.

Again, IF you piece it together, which should work if it's covered w something, still like $250.

Same square footage house insul can be got at local old time lumberyard from a broken bundle for like $10 - $15.

I would not worry about insulating till later.

Use it awhile, see how it works as is.

You got all summer to think about insul.

By wintertime, you may even decide you want a totally different smoker.

And the regular unfaced house insul is TOTALLY fine.

This ain't the belly of the Space Shuttle.   Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Tell the Wife you're learning, and could just say you need to buy a $2,000 smoker.

You are being frugal, I love it.

Learning is never cheap, and nothing is free.    Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 10, 2017)

Thanks Marc for your patience.  I have the aforementioned element on order.  Just a couple of things to iron out.  Want to get a small rack to put my chip pan an inch or so above the element and some way to catch drippings.  I also need to find a way to get a tighter seal on the bottom hatch.  After all that I should be ready to roll.


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Consider 1/4"  bolt "legs", and adjust so tray is about 1" above element.

Edit - more like 3/8" above element, now that I check better.

You may want to adjust that height after a few smokes to somewhat effect your amount of smoke.

But actually, maybe no need to change height, but just place it over different parts of the element...  less smoke over straight section, more smoke over "U" shape section.

Make sense?

Sandwich the pan sheetmetal between washers to stiffen the legs.

Like on this AMNPS tray -  













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__ daveomak
__ Mar 9, 2017


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

And if you can, post a few photos to help us.

Make sure you show details of that "hatch" and any air intake. 

And your plan for top venting.                   Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 10, 2017)

Here ya go....  Good idea for the legs.













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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

Haha.. Cool.. kinda like I was gonna do but I stuck to my ECB.













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__ Rings Я Us
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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

Works good for 14 hours on a load of bbk













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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

Have fun!













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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Shutters look good, you will probably end up running very close to closed on those stacks.

As a reference, most MES smokers have top vent total opening of about 1/2" diameter.

Yes, less than 1/2" sq. hole.

Meaning .25 / sq inch.

On the door, all I can think of is rivet on a flange all around.

Use two of the clips below, or something like them,  to keep it tighter, one on bottom of door in center, one on bottom below it.

So that should hold the flexy door pretty closed.

Actually, the leakage around that door will be PLENTY for ALL incoming air.

These turnbuttons and clips are normally used to hold screen windows on older homes,  two kinds...

Most hardware stores, especially in old parts of town will have both, possibly Big Boxes.

http://www.houseofantiquehardware.com/hanging-fasteners-screen-storm-snap?sc=12&category=91

http://www.houseofantiquehardware.com/hanging-fasteners-zinc-turn-buttons?sc=12&category=91


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Rings - What are you burning in there?

Is it maybe getting too hot for the galvanized?

As long as the fire is somewhat separated from the galvanize, should be OK.

Looking at your photos again, looks like an excellent fit for that fire tray, plenty far away probably.

As long as not roaring fire, but looks like in your case will not be, being a smoker and not BBQ so much.

Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

It's a big gap between the tabletop kettle grill and the bucket. And the fire is up high . I don't think it's 500° .


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

Like this.. 













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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

And I can run like this













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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

I wanted a trash can smoker too.. something that keeps under 300°


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Looks good to me !!  Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

I doubt that the fumes off the galvanized steel stuff will poison anyone if your not inhaling it all day everyday. I really doubt that stuff you eat would contain enough toxins to make you sick either. I would worry more if welding that stuff. I know people burned yard waste in them for 80 years.. they still sell them with the holes in them to burn in.


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

Northerner - Actually, if you use the clips or similar above, and bend the door metal correctly, you MAY not need the riveted flange as much.

It certainly would still help, but just trying to save you some work.

And if you don't have a pop rivet tool, sheetmetal screws or like #8 bolts and nuts would work.

Rivets just neatest way, but not necessary.     Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

Just saw a guy on tv with a roaring fire in a wash tub like this and a grate over it cooking ribeye. Was that famous meat smoker guy and an older Texan guy that runs a chuck wagon.. Lol he been doing it for years.. he called it a number 3 wash tub. Bbq with Franklin.. show was.. 



I didn't mean to hijack the thread.. sorry.. be cool and happy building [emoji]127866[/emoji][emoji]128077[/emoji]


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## marctrees (Jul 10, 2017)

http://kilianhardware.com/ststtu.html

You only need the "one wing" to hold the door shut, but the two wing is better cuz much easier to turn two fingered.    Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

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## northerner78 (Jul 11, 2017)

Great info guys.  I may do the clip thing, but I think applying foil tape every time I smoke might have to be the answer.  Can't wait to put some meat down after I cure and season. 

 So after I'm done.  I'll want to paint some things on the outside, like a flying pig and whatever else.  What type of paint can I use?


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## marctrees (Jul 11, 2017)

After ALL  cutting, drilling, etc is done.... wash scrub inside w a strong Dawn or whatever solution, upside down to dry.

Then use it.

I don't think you need to worry about any "seasoning" if you wash it gooood.

Well actually, may be best to run open on "High" to rid element and chip pan of any odors.

Ya... do that. When NO stink, cook.

Paint a pig laying on back, legs sticking up, X's in eyes.      Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 11, 2017)

Suggest for your first smoke to limit airflow as per Post #16.

Then experiment from that foundation.      Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 11, 2017)

dead-pig.png



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## marctrees (Jul 11, 2017)

northerner78 said:


> dead-pig.png
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, my  thought anyway.

To keep that door more aligned and tighter w hole, just a few screws w swivel scrap "flags" of some metal would be free and work OK.  Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 11, 2017)

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What about a couple of these latches? They are adjustable. Grind off 1/16th of the edge of that door and use a draw tight adjustable latch or 2 to get that door tight.


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## marctrees (Jul 11, 2017)

Rings - Well ya, on the right END side of the door.

One would be enough,  due to the ribbing on the door keeping it rigid in one direction,. centred on right side end 

Northerner's barrel bolt does nothing to "pull", only align the in to out direction.

But, the door is floppy in the other direction.

So that's why he needs something to align it in center.

Accomplished by bending door radius tighter than the can body, then somehow pressing in top and bottom center to smaller radius to minimize gap.

THEN, after that, his barrell bolt will be OK.

It is probably loose enough to very easily slide to the correct depth.

Am I talking too much?     Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 11, 2017)

Not atall Marc.  I appreciate your effort to help me out.  Now it's just my turn to bring this all to fruition and show you a working unit.  Nice to have found a place where folks like to help.  My name is Jeff btw.


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 12, 2017)

To bad you couldn't adapt a hinge like on my Brinkmann.. have fun! Good luck to ya.














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[emoji]128077[/emoji] [emoji]9749[/emoji]
Johnny B


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## northerner78 (Jul 13, 2017)

The time has come for greatness!!













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## northerner78 (Jul 13, 2017)

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## northerner78 (Jul 13, 2017)

I won't go any higher.  As you can see I stuffed the gaps with foil and it still won't get to 250.  What now?













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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

Hmm..why Not some insulation wrap like for hot water tanks?


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

They have hot water tank blankets for like $20 everywhere. You could use one of those. 













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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I've seen people use insulation on offset smokers lol


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

How about this? 













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Would be a bunch of work and not look cool hey?


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

Top vents just cracked and bottom vent closed?


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

Put a nice cast iron pan on there and give it more hot surface area.. it probably would be 400 degrees in there then.


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

DANG !!! That element fits perfect size !!

OK, lets start.........FIRST -  Do we KNOW the thermo is sufficiently accurate ? 

Outside temp ?

Were ALL vents closed tight as possible ? ( Remember what I said about how little the venting is like on MES units - Like roughly 1/2" hole at top.. and a little bigger intake/ grease drip hole in bottom... thats ALL.)

Are you running on a longish cord?

At least #14 gauge cord ? 

Was it windy ?

IN SUN    or shade?

How long was it on high when you read temp ?

Please give can dimensions.

Answer point by point to be scientific.  Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

Rings  - Yes, he will certainly benefit from insul, but let's check out everything else first, then add that after.    Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 13, 2017)

It was roughly 80°
About a 20' long extension cord heavy duty.
No wind of any significant amount.
Shade
At the time I took the picture I had it on high for about 30 minutes.
As far as I know the temp is accurate.  It was bought new at Lowe's. I'm sure it's possible it could be wrong but I have nothing to double check with.


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I never seen an electric trash can build do anything but cold smoke. Usually a smaller can is used for better heat with electric. Or the element is a hot plate coil elevated a bit .


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> Put a nice cast iron pan on there and give it more hot surface area.. it probably would be 400 degrees in there then.


Well, the pan's mass will give more stable temps.. like after lid openings, wind gusts, one minute flash rains....  but it won't make it hotter otherwise.

Only two ways to get it hotter...  Either throw more heat into it... or conserve the heat in it.      Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> I never seen an electric trash can build do anything but cold smoke. Usually a smaller can is used for better heat with electric. Or the element is a hot plate coil elevated a bit .


His element is 1500 w, larger by about 40% at least over residential inexpensive "hot plates".

And yes... one of his things contributing to apparent lowish tyemps... is the largish volume chamber.

Thats why I want his dimensions of can     Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

My cardboard box smoker I had an 1100 watt lol it burnt up one day. To much air flow ignited the chips. I was bummed out.


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

My MES 30 analog has 1500w and CAN get to 290 only in perfect conditions though.   

Gonna go get dimensions of that, then we can compare to his.

And, like your insul idea... dont forget I have double wall, so that helps.      Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

But anyway, a small amount of coals in a little tabletop grill inside the can would stay under 300 and be safe.. if he wanted to go the charcoal way..


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> My cardboard box smoker I had an 1100 watt lol it burnt up one day. To much air flow ignited the chips. I was bummed out.


Glad it was just the box !!!!!!!!!!      Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I don't see how he can clean that can out anyway.. with the element mounted in there.


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> But anyway, a small amount of coals in a little tabletop grill inside the can would stay under 300 and be safe.. if he wanted to go the charcoal way..


Great idea as alternate to the electric.

He can use the element for some cooks, charcoal for others. 

Ya good idea.. just one of those throwaway $8 little round grills at grocery store.. it has legs, so just set it over the element on the days you want that.

Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I made smokers with a can of sterno when I was in the infantry in Germany..  sterno is good clean heat lol


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> I don't see how he can clean that can out anyway.. with the element mounted in there.


Yup.. true, but it's a basic model, bang for the buck.. lets him smoke for minor investment.  Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

Mine is 15 inch for $19.00 with a   million holes vents.













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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I could light 12 coals and go like 4 hours tossing chips on


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

OK.. my mes is  5460 cubed inches.

13 x 15 x 28 inside.   

Lets see what his is.

I have NO idea how wattage would compare to volume technically, not an Engineer here, but I know darn well the bigger the box, the more the heat needed.

Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 13, 2017)

Dimensions are
27tall
20wide


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I know the trash can is 31 gallons and a Pit Barrel cooker is 35 gallon. No way would you be able to cook meat in a pit barrel if they used that electric element.. and pit barrel is at least 100% thicker density to retain heat. . 
I would go to charcoal or insulate wrap it.


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

You have  8482 cubed inches, I have 5460.... AND I have double walls.

You are 55% bigger than me volume.

So.. simplified...  IF mine held one cup, your would be a bit more than 1 1/2 cup.    Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I know there are old timers laughing their bippies off right now over trash can dilemma.. they all seen it before.. Lol [emoji]129299[/emoji]


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

I'll be back here in half hour.

Will look if you answered any other of the list questions.

MAINLY the thermometer one.

Marc


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

* goes over and polishes his smoke N Grill.


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## northerner78 (Jul 13, 2017)

Vents closed.  And like I said, it was a new thermostat from Lowe's.  Don't really have a way of double checking.  I'll look and see if I have anything


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 13, 2017)

I don't see much to show any data on a successful electric trashcan build anywhere.. just some cold smoke guy's. Or converted to charcoal.


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## northerner78 (Jul 13, 2017)

I'm bound and determined to make this work.  I only need about 30° more.  Perhaps the insulation will get me there.  And also I just eliminated the extension cord and it's the same.


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

ok   put some water in a small pot on the stove, get it boiling, put in therm AT LEAST 1/2 way up its shaft.

Mix around 20 second with water still boiling.

Read temp on therm, should be 212.  go do it, I'm curious what you read.  Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

Northerners can will be fine, just needs to be optimized.  Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

more accurtely, due to elevation you should be 210.  Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 13, 2017)

accurtely

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.   Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 14, 2017)

Ok just tested the thermostat.  Tested accurate.  Headed to Lowe's to look at some insulation, a grate to put the cast iron skillet, buckles or something of the sort to secure the door.  I might even consider a small electric burner to boost the heat Abit more.  Hoping that today is the day I can say I have a proper smoker.


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 14, 2017)

Cool.


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## marctrees (Jul 14, 2017)

Great to hear your thermometer is accurate.   A rarity.

It will not work to just "Add a hotplate" for various reasons.

Of course you will need to run a 2nd cord from a SEPARATE circuit , but that's just the first problem.

Start w the insul, and let us know what result you get.

Is the cast iron skillet going to be the "chip pan" ?

If so, just drill and do the bolt legs.

But, a little cheap 8x8 cake pan would be best.

The mass of the cast iron will take longgg preheat time to initially transmit heat to chips.              

I dunno what kind of grate you think you're gonna find, mostly because of the specific elevation of about 3/8" above element you need.

MAYBE you can find one w legs you can clip off to the right height, like on a cheap $8 grill. 

That's why the infinite adjustment bolt legs are great, no matter what pan you use.

Course, w the bolt legs, after you have yer first 6 pack of Leinie's, you gotta make sure you don't rip the element out if you remove it.

I just take a handful when necessary and reach in and drop in pan.

Actually, best would be a small grate that YOU put the bolt legs on to height, THEN you can slide your pan to hotter or cooler parts of element, and not worry about hurting or touching the element after the Leinie's.        Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 14, 2017)

By jove I think I've got it!!!
Holding steady at 350° for over and hour now.  Another hour or so of burn off and I'm ready for meat tomorrow!!












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## marctrees (Jul 14, 2017)

Awesome frickin EXCELLENT.

And that's just with the River heating?

That insul made a much larger diff than I expected.

Would you please give me a link, or CLEARLY explain specifically what you got ?   Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 14, 2017)

Watcha end up doin for chip pan ?   Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 14, 2017)

I went to Lowe's and bought a hot water heater blanket.  Got a buckle type latch for the door and for the grate that the chips will sit on is a Webber 10" grate.  To get the grate to sit about 3/4" from the element I used the metal frame from a horse trough heater I bought earlier in the project stands nice and steady and above all SAFE. Still holding at 350°. It smoked alitte bit and now there is no smoke and smells clean.  No burning plastic smell or anything funky.  Now I have the burner on high which means I can back it off Abit to bring it to 250°.  Gonna respray it black ànd have some fun with it estheticly.  Thank you Marc and the others that helped me finish this up.  I'm a pretty happy guy right now.


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## marctrees (Jul 14, 2017)

Awesome Possum !!!!!!!!!    

You may want to lower that grate for sufficient smoke.....   The MES pan is about 3/8" over element.     Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 14, 2017)

You have given me inspiration to go insulate my smoker.

Most important.... You have had a 100 + degree rise just by insulating, NO other change..... Correct ?? 

That is a VERY valuable piece of info on this Forum.

Is it the "bubble wrap" water heater blanket, or the fiberglass batt style of blanket?

If the plastic bubble wrap, it can be rained on.

If fiberglass, no... not so much rainwise.     Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 14, 2017)

All I did is insulate and foil tape the leaks.  The insulation is of the fiberglass batting variety. I'm itching as we speak!!


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## marctrees (Jul 14, 2017)

Fiberglass is TOTALLY fine.. just keep in mind it needs to be out of rain, or can literally take weeks to dry with that plastic overcoat, , unless you somehow have it shielded.

Anyway, very glad to hear of your success.    Marc


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## marctrees (Jul 14, 2017)

Looking at your insulated photo again, if you can foil tape around the top more, so that when you put the lid down the rain will stay outside the plastic, would be a great thing to do.

And run the tape like roof shingles... the higher ones overlapping the lower ones.... start to tape around LOW, then spiral higher OVER the tape you just did, till your topmost tape edge is under the lid.              Marc


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## northerner78 (Jul 14, 2017)

Got that covered.  There is no exposed material.  Top and bottom around the door and the lower vent.  I may add alitte more foil to the top just to make sure the lid doesn't burn the vinyl.


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## northerner78 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yup, I wrote that.  Practicing your copy and paste skills?


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