# If you want a smoke ring with your MES, try this.



## torontoguy (Jan 25, 2013)

Did the first smoke on my MES today, and had the best baby back ribs I've ever had. I'm currently an extremely happy MES 30 owner :) Especially considering it held a temp between 215 and 230 for 5 hours in -8*C (about 17*F) weather. Seeing all the q-view pics of food coming off the MES I noticed one thing, no smoke ring. 

Personally, I like to see it so I tried something. I took a big lump of hardwood charcoal, put it in a ziplock bag and smashed it with a hammer, down to the same size as the cherry chips I was using. I then mixed the charcoal chips in with the cherry chips. Each handful I added to the MES looked like this:













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__ torontoguy
__ Jan 25, 2013






Did it work? You tell me :p













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__ torontoguy
__ Jan 25, 2013






I also noticed I was getting consistent TBS for about 45 minutes per handful rather than the 15-20 others report.I'd think that if you wanted a deeper smoke ring you could just up the charcoal to wood chip ratio with more charcoal.

If this is a well known technique, I must've missed that thread 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Cheers!


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## old sarge (Jan 25, 2013)

Nice report.  Nice results.  Thanks.


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## dairydennis (Jan 26, 2013)

But the real question is, how did it taste?  I am going to give this a try on the next smoke and see how it comes out as well.Thumbs Up


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## torontoguy (Jan 26, 2013)

They tasted exactly how you'd want smoked baby back ribs to taste. Every bite filled your mouth with some spice from the rub (I just used Butt Rub), some sweetness from the BBQ Sauce (random BBQ sauce that didn't contain added smoke flavour), and a perfect blend of charcoal and cherry smokiness. 

I've done a quite few smokes on a cheapo Brinkmann (charcoal) and without a doubt these came out better, and we thought the ones I made on the Brinkmann were amazing 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. I had my dad and a buddy over for dinner and they both said these were the best ribs they'd ever had.


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## cman55 (Feb 26, 2013)

I was just about to ask about creating the "smoke ring" using an electric smoker. I will use this technique on my next smoke which will be a full brisket. Thanks for the info TG!


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## torontoguy (Feb 28, 2013)

Looking back at the picture of my ribs, I REALLY wished I would've taken a better picture


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## mdboatbum (Feb 28, 2013)

This topic comes up every once in a while here, but thanks for actually taking the time to post a picture of the result. I don't use an electric but my brother does and I'll be sure to tell him this actually works.


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## JckDanls 07 (Feb 28, 2013)

I don't use an electric ether..  but after reading all the "no smoke ring" threads because of no charcoal...  I'm thinking you may have really stumbled onto something...  be interesting to see what other electric users say...


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## ravenclan (Mar 7, 2013)

great idea ! ........I know the smoke ring does not add flavor but i just think it looks good on the meat .


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## geerock (Mar 7, 2013)

Been using a few broken pieces of lump in the chip tray of my old mes 40 for a couple of years.  In cold weather it helps get the temps up, gives the food a hint of true bbq flavor and, yes, will givee a bit of a smoke ring.  Get it started with a propane torch and a few small chunks will last a good long time.  Thanks for the pics Toronto...  chow looks great.


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## dj mishima (Mar 8, 2013)

I'm going to have to try this one out.  Thanks for the tip!


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## dward51 (Mar 8, 2013)

Wonder if you could do the same but mix it in with pellets in a pellet tray/tube?


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## goingcamping (Mar 8, 2013)

dward51 said:


> Wonder if you could do the same but mix it in with pellets in a pellet tray/tube?



That's the $64K question...I plan on smoking something on Sunday...I'm gonna have to give that a try...I'll report back, unless someone else posts first?

~Brett

P.S. Thanks for posting...


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## geerock (Mar 8, 2013)

dward51 said:


> Wonder if you could do the same but mix it in with pellets in a pellet tray/tube?


Now thats an idea I have to try.


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## mneeley490 (Mar 8, 2013)

geerock said:


> Now thats an idea I have to try.


You can now buy charcoal pellets. I believe Todd sells them, as well as others.


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## sawzall (Mar 11, 2013)

mneeley490 said:


> You can now buy charcoal pellets. I believe Todd sells them, as well as others.


I've used them in my AMPS in my 30" MES and they have never produced a smoke ring.  And I have tried the lump in the chip; tray and it did produce a smoke ring when used with chips but after I got my AMPS it seems like the charcoal sucks up all the oxygen and I could never keep the AMPS lit. Took out the lump and it would smoke away like normal.  Put lump back in and it would snuff out the pellets.  And I never had to light the lump as the element would light it just fine just like wood chips.


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## gimmeharmony (Jun 4, 2013)

goingcamping said:


> That's the $64K question...I plan on smoking something on Sunday...I'm gonna have to give that a try...I'll report back, unless someone else posts first?
> 
> ~Brett
> 
> P.S. Thanks for posting...


I am on the edge of my chair on this one.  Any report or someone else have information?


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## scorpion79 (Dec 25, 2013)

Has anyone tried a little Lump in the chip tray and pellets in the AMPS?? Any luck with a ring?


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## baconator (Apr 23, 2014)

MES 30' ......  after reading this post I decided to try adding some charcoal as described with pellets,,,,  first try no luck and 2nd try I just added crushed up charcoal without pellets on 270 and the charcoal never even started smoking (4 hour test) ....  do I need to add already burning charcoal? I was using kingsford championship briquets , should I be using lump charcoal? o the madness!!!


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## bhelton (May 10, 2014)

I tried it last weekend on my MES 30. I added lump and crushed up charcoal and go zero smoke ring. Any other ideas?


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## WillRunForQue (May 10, 2014)

I have used a technique that others have previously suggested on here.  I light 2 briquettes in my weber until they are well lit and then use tongs to push them one at a time down the chip loader chute.  I run my AMNS at the same time.  Using 2 briquettes has worked well for me to get a smoke ring, and sometimes I'll add a third prelit briquette 45 minutes in.  It's been a while since I have done it so I don't have any pictures (mainly using my MES for bacon right now).


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## ronluvsribs (May 10, 2014)

Hi guys. I'm new to the forum but have been doing some experiments of my own with the smoke ring issue on my MES 40". I'll post pics soon as I can. I have gone with the method of using a small disposable tin pan adding about 10 ashed-over charcoal briquettes and a handful of a mix of apple and pecan wood chips and setting it under the water pan. I also pull the wood chip loader out about 1/4 of the way to allow for more air flow. I haven't run into the issue of temperature control to my knowledge but will play closer attention on my next smoke(brisket).


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## capnron13 (May 24, 2014)

I am in my second run with my new MES 40 and I did have a lack of smoke ring with my first.  I was staring at a bag of lump coal I had in the garage and thought about this exact idea, so I jumped on SMF to verify if it would work. ( knowing someone here has tried everything before, lol) and now I will try this for the second half of the shoulders that are in it as I type.  THanks for the pics, and Idea.


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## bel420 (May 24, 2014)

I really don't get all the hoopla about a smoke ring? its there looks good and next thing you know it's in your tummy. See for me I'd be more concerned about that charcoal flavor then the ring. will the crushed lump add that flavor?


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## hamrhead1971 (Dec 2, 2014)

I know this is an old post, but has anyone had any luck using crushed lump with the AMNPS in an electric?


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## bhelton (Dec 3, 2014)

I tried that when I was using my MES. I still got no smoke ring.


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## a g k (Dec 3, 2014)

Has anyone tried adding a little sodium nitrite ( within recommended guidelines per pound of meat ) to your rub to see if that will add a   ring that looks like a smoke ring? Just a thought.

Alan


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## oldschoolbbq (Dec 3, 2014)

Great , and a great idea for the MES owners...

Thanks and Points for the tip...


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## daricksta (Dec 3, 2014)

TorontoGuy said:


> Did the first smoke on my MES today, and had the best baby back ribs I've ever had. I'm currently an extremely happy MES 30 owner :) Especially considering it held a temp between 215 and 230 for 5 hours in -8*C (about 17*F) weather. Seeing all the q-view pics of food coming off the MES I noticed one thing, no smoke ring.
> 
> Personally, I like to see it so I tried something. I took a big lump of hardwood charcoal, put it in a ziplock bag and smashed it with a hammer, down to the same size as the cherry chips I was using. I then mixed the charcoal chips in with the cherry chips. Each handful I added to the MES looked like this:
> 
> ...


I've read that placing a burning lump of charcoal in an electric smoker can create a smoke ring but I never tried it since I pictured using a whole briquette which I didn't want to do. Smashing it to small pieces is an intriguing and workable idea. I only use wood pellets in my AMNPS but it should still work to put charcoal pieces in the wood chip loader of my MES 30 and use those along with the pellets. Or I could also experiment with mixing them in with the pellets.


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## daricksta (Dec 4, 2014)

After reading the posts from the guys who didn't get a smoke ring with the charcoal, You need nitric oxide (NO) carbon monoxide (CO) and oxygen and sufficient heat reacting with the myoglobin in the meat (with most of the fat removed to produce those smoke rings (real bare bones explanation). Using charcoal _may_ produce smoke rings in an electric smoker but it's not guaranteed. A grooved charcoal briquette is preferable to lump because the charcoal briquette burns hotter and promotes better airflow. Lump charcoal is almost all carbon so it lacks sufficient NO to produce smoke rings.

I could go on but you can read it all yourself here: http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html


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## cmayna (Dec 4, 2014)

daRicksta,

That is a very interesting article from amazingribs.   Hmmmmmmm.


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## geerock (Dec 4, 2014)

Sodium nitrate?  So we are talking putting a chemically induced mark into the meat so we can say we added a certain look to the finished product.  Maybe after you cut the meat you can paint on some food dye to get the smoke ring.

For mes (or other electric owners) broken up lump will get the look you want.  What happened to the days we worried about how it tastes?


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## daricksta (Dec 4, 2014)

geerock said:


> Sodium nitrate? So we are talking putting a chemically induced mark into the meat so we can say we added a certain look to the finished product. Maybe after you cut the meat you can paint on some food dye to get the smoke ring.
> 
> For mes (or other electric owners) broken up lump will get the look you want. What happened to the days we worried about how it tastes?


How did nitric oxide turn into sodium nitrate? All this is just an intellectual exercise for me anyway. It's more than enough to work to just produce great-tasting "Q" without adding attempts to get a smoke ring on top of it.


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## daricksta (Dec 4, 2014)

cmayna said:


> daRicksta,
> 
> That is a very interesting article from amazingribs.   Hmmmmmmm.


I came across it some months ago since this topic periodically arises I bookmarked it for future reference. As I said to geerock, I personally don't care about generating a smoke ring; I just like presenting scenarios on how to achieve one in an electric smoker if someone _really_ wants to. It's the discussion which interests me.


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## geerock (Dec 4, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> How did nitric oxide turn into sodium nitrate? All this is just an intellectual exercise for me anyway. It's more than enough to work to just produce great-tasting "Q" without adding attempts to get a smoke ring on top of it.



daRickstra,

AGK suggested sodium nitrate (or nitrite) be added to the meat to try to get an artificial smoke ring earlier in the thread.  I SHOULD HAVE QUOTED IT.  And we are on the same page as far as great TASTING Q anyway.
all the best to you.


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## a g k (Dec 5, 2014)

I only suggested sodium nitrite to put a ring that LOOKS like a smoke ring on meat because it is the sodium nitrite that turns meat ( like a ham)  pink when cured. I have not tried it & have no plans to try it because the lack of a smoke ring is of no concern to me on ribs or whatever I cook on my Bradley electric. If or when I want a smoke ring I can use my offset smoker where the wood chunks burn hot enough to produce the ring. Did not intend to make it sound like a cure all for a lack of smoke ring.

AGK


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## daricksta (Dec 5, 2014)

A G K said:


> I only suggested sodium nitrite to put a ring that LOOKS like a smoke ring on meat because it is the sodium nitrite that turns meat ( like a ham)  pink when cured. I have not tried it & have no plans to try it because the lack of a smoke ring is of no concern to me on ribs or whatever I cook on my Bradley electric. If or when I want a smoke ring I can use my offset smoker where the wood chunks burn hot enough to produce the ring. Did not intend to make it sound like a cure all for a lack of smoke ring.
> 
> AGK


I'm sorry I misunderstood your comment. You're right and theoretically it could work. And like you, I've no interest in trying any of this with my Masterbuilt electric smoker; it's the discussion that interests me. But you also have an offset smoker? What make and model? It interests me that you have both, which is really the best of both worlds.


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## a g k (Dec 5, 2014)

daRicksta,

  Thanks for the reply. Haven't used the offset in some time & loaned it to one son so he could try. As I remember it is a Char Broil horizontal but the name tag is gone. Smoked quite a bit with it before I got the Bradley that I modified by replacing the 500 watt element with a 900 watt controlled by an Auber PID. The Auber really keeps tight temp control. But no smoke ring which is ok as it makes no difference in taste anyhow.

AGK


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## daricksta (Dec 5, 2014)

AGK,

Char Broil is to offset smokers what Masterbuilt is to electric smokers: great starter models. I bought a Masterbuilt because I wanted an electric smoker I could easily store in my garage. I've been very happy with it but I use wood pellets and not chips in mine. Quite a few guys have replaced the MES controllers with Aubers. Mine is still working fine and if it ever goes out I might consider the upgrade instead of ordering a new MB part. I don't know much about working with electrical components although I could install a controller. As for putting in a higher wattage element, how does one know if the wiring and fuse (if any) on the smoker can handle it? That's a big jump from 500 to 900. The MES 30 comes with an 800 watt element.


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## daricksta (Dec 5, 2014)

geerock said:


> daRickstra,
> 
> AGK suggested sodium nitrate (or nitrite) be added to the meat to try to get an artificial smoke ring earlier in the thread. I SHOULD HAVE QUOTED IT. And we are on the same page as far as great TASTING Q anyway.
> all the best to you.


Thanks, Geerock. You're one of the reasons I enjoy these forums. But, sometimes I'm quick on the uptake and other days I'm incredibly dense.


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## a g k (Dec 5, 2014)

daRickstra, 

  The controller in the Bradley may have handled the extra load, BUT would would have been right on the top edge of limit. I  changed 18 gauge hi temp wire with 12 gauge hi temp wire in cabinet along with new fuse in PID. I am a retired cellular cell site tech with a lot of experience with wiring. And before that was a broadcast engineer for 16 years.  I will figure the current draw  on your 800 watts if you need. 

  AGK


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## geerock (Dec 5, 2014)

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__ geerock
__ Jan 6, 2014






Theres a pic of my MES attached to the vent stack hole of my Traeger.  I use the Auber PID for the element in the MES to augment the heat from the Traeger.  Rock solid temps and I can smoke at different temps in each unit at the same time.  Works very well.

A G K.....hope I didn't seem disrespecful on the post about smoke.  It was not my intention.

daRickstra..... back at you.  I always enjoy your postings.  And I'm well aware of that dense / sharp thing from day to day.  Although the dense seems to be taking the lead more and more.  All the best to all of you.


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## a g k (Dec 5, 2014)

geerock,  That is an interesting way to get double use of your smoke & also run 2 different temps at the same time. You can cold smoke & hot smoke at the same time. Is your grocery bill going up??

  AGK


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## daricksta (Dec 11, 2014)

A G K said:


> daRickstra,
> 
> The controller in the Bradley may have handled the extra load, BUT would would have been right on the top edge of limit. I  changed 18 gauge hi temp wire with 12 gauge hi temp wire in cabinet along with new fuse in PID. I am a retired cellular cell site tech with a lot of experience with wiring. And before that was a broadcast engineer for 16 years.  I will figure the current draw  on your 800 watts if you need.
> 
> AGK


Thanks for the offer AGK. But with my minimal knowledge of anything electrical and my history of irrevocably breaking things I attempt to fix without knowing what I'm doing. I can replace a light switch and a power outlet with successful. I've even installed a couple of lighted ceiling fans in my time, all with success. But there's also the electrical outlet that was melting the outlet and close to starting a fire inside the wall since I hadn't connected one of the hot leads properly.

So, if I need a replacement controller or heating element it's much safer for me to stick with what came with my smoker.


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## meatman3000 (Dec 11, 2014)

geerock said:


> *Sodium nitrate? So we are talking putting a chemically induced mark into the meat* so we can say we added a certain look to the finished product. Maybe after you cut the meat you can paint on some food dye to get the smoke ring.
> 
> For mes (or other electric owners) broken up *lump will get the look you want*. What happened to the days we worried about how it tastes?


Lol.  You do realize Kingsford charcoal contains Sodium Nitrate?


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## meatman3000 (Dec 11, 2014)

Morton's has a salt variaty called "Morton Tender Quick Meat Cure."  This stuff contains some nitrogenous substances that allegedly should get you the "smoke ring."

I'm going to give it a whirl in a couple of months...  I've really got to stop mixing up such big batches of rub.


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## geerock (Dec 11, 2014)

MeatMan3000 said:


> Lol.  You do realize Kingsford charcoal contains Sodium Nitrate?


I sure do realize it.  Thats one of the reasons I use natural lump.  Very little chemical, if any.


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## daricksta (Dec 12, 2014)

MeatMan3000 said:


> Lol.  You do realize Kingsford charcoal contains Sodium Nitrate?


Just another reason why I use Stubb's charcoal.


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## tropics (Dec 12, 2014)

Only thing you have to do is Google Charcoal Pellets They make them


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## mummel (Jun 25, 2015)

Just found this thread.  So whats the deal then?  Can we get smoke rings in our MES?


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## daricksta (Jun 25, 2015)

A G K said:


> daRickstra,
> 
> The controller in the Bradley may have handled the extra load, BUT would would have been right on the top edge of limit. I  changed 18 gauge hi temp wire with 12 gauge hi temp wire in cabinet along with new fuse in PID. I am a retired cellular cell site tech with a lot of experience with wiring. And before that was a broadcast engineer for 16 years.  I will figure the current draw  on your 800 watts if you need.
> 
> AGK


AGK, I just saw this post. I can't recall if I responded or not. So far, my stock MES controller works but may be developing a problem. I'll know for sure the next time I smoke. How has your Bradley and PID worked out?


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## a g k (Jun 25, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> AGK, I just saw this post. I can't recall if I responded or not. So far, my stock MES controller works but may be developing a problem. I'll know for sure the next time I smoke. How has your Bradley and PID worked out?


  I have the Auber Sly 2342 that can handle up to 1200 watts with built in 10 amp relay. It has worked fine for the several years I have used it in mt Bradley digital with 2   500 watt elements. AGK


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## daricksta (Jun 25, 2015)

A G K said:


> I have the Auber Sly 2342 that can handle up to 1200 watts with built in 10 amp relay. It has worked fine for the several years I have used it in mt Bradley digital with 2   500 watt elements. AGK


I don't understand what an amp relay does. That's why if I need a new controller I'd buy a replacement MB one. I've just got a little MES 30 Gen 1 anyway.


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## a g k (Jun 26, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> I don't understand what an amp relay does. That's why if I need a new controller I'd buy a replacement MB one. I've just got a little MES 30 Gen 1 anyway.


  The relay is to increase the amps that the controller can safely handle. The PID makes it possible to control the temp to within 1 or 2 degrees, but requires some wiring changes. The Bradley comes with one 500 watt element for heating plus a 125 watt to produce smoke. I added the PID so I could add a 2nd 500 watt element to reduce recovery time after opening door & also for cold, windy conditions.


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## daricksta (Jun 29, 2015)

A G K said:


> daRickstra,
> 
> The controller in the Bradley may have handled the extra load, BUT would would have been right on the top edge of limit. I  changed 18 gauge hi temp wire with 12 gauge hi temp wire in cabinet along with new fuse in PID. I am a retired cellular cell site tech with a lot of experience with wiring. And before that was a broadcast engineer for 16 years.  I will figure the current draw  on your 800 watts if you need.
> 
> AGK


AGK, that's a lot of work. I admire you guys with electrical backgrounds who can easily accomplish the rewiring and the installation of electrical/electronic components.


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## sgtschultz (Jan 24, 2016)

Dood - that setup is hardcore !  SWEET !


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## fuzzyb (Jan 26, 2016)

I just add (2) charcoal briquets in the smoke tray when I'm bringing my MES upto temp. It gets hot enough in there to get the briquets glowing orange. To also aid in the process I'll leave the wood hooper in and turned upside down so the incoming air gets drawn right over the briquets.


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