# lactic acid starter culture



## ldrus (Jan 23, 2012)

what other alais  does it go by and where do i get it? have a recipe that calls for it but no clue  where to get it looked at butcher packer and sausage maker????????????


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## solaryellow (Jan 23, 2012)

Butcher Packer has several starter cultures. Which does your recipe call for?


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## ldrus (Jan 23, 2012)

just says 1/3 cup lactic-acid starter culture


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## solaryellow (Jan 23, 2012)

Got a link to the recipe or for the book it came out of?


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## ldrus (Jan 23, 2012)

http://events.nytimes.com/recipes/1884/2001/12/30/The-Original-Slim-Jim/recipe.html


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## solaryellow (Jan 23, 2012)

Given the time and temperatures, LHP sounds like the right culture. It is a faster culture made for a 80 - 100*F temp which is probably why the recipe doesn't want temps to fall below 90*F.

http://www.butcher-packer.com/index...id=325&zenid=6e7f5be7a52f775a1d79d29879bb89c0

F-LC will work too. http://www.butcher-packer.com/index...id=742&zenid=6e7f5be7a52f775a1d79d29879bb89c0

Some more info for you. http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage/cultures


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## solaryellow (Jan 23, 2012)

Btw, you will never get the sticks to 155*F if your heat is 150* as the recipe suggests. Might want to do some more homework on this one.


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## sausageboy (Jan 23, 2012)

For fermented sausages that are going to be cooked, I use live-culture yogurt......one heaping teaspoon yogurt and a couple tablespoons of water.

For ferment dry cured sausages that are *NOT* cooked, it's recommended that Bactoferm[emoji]8482[/emoji] F-LC be used for protection against _listeria monocytogenes_, the bacterium that causes listeriosis.

_*"Bactoferm[emoji]8482[/emoji] F-LC meat culture with bioprotective properties for production of fermented sausages with short or traditional production times. F-LC is recommended for the production of all types of fermented sausages. Depending on fermentation temperature, acidification is either traditional, fast or extra fast. F-LC is a mixed culture containing Pediococcus acidilactici, Lactobacillus curvatus and Staphylococcus xylosus in a convenient freeze-dried form. P. acidilactici ensures reliable acidification whereas S. xylosus results in strong flavor development and a good, stable color. Due to bacteriocin production both L. curvatus and P. acidilactici contribute to suppressing growth of Listeria monocytogenes"*_

http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=742

:sausage:


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## sausageboy (Jan 23, 2012)

lkrus said:


> http://events.nytimes.com/recipes/1884/2001/12/30/The-Original-Slim-Jim/recipe.html




That recipe is a dud!

Why add starter culture, but *NOT* allow enough time for proper fermenting?????

I have recipe(s) for real fermented slim jims if that is what you want.....otherwise just add some fermento  or the like.



:sausage:


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## solaryellow (Jan 23, 2012)

SausageBoy said:


> For fermented sausages that are going to be cooked, I use live-culture yogurt......one heaping teaspoon yogurt and a couple tablespoons of water.
> 
> For ferment dry cured sausages that are *NOT* cooked, it's recommended that Bactoferm[emoji]8482[/emoji] F-LC be used for protection against _listeria monocytogenes_, the bacterium that causes listeriosis.
> 
> ...




Enlighten me, how is fermentation reserved exclusively for dry curing?


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## sausageboy (Jan 23, 2012)

solaryellow said:


> SausageBoy said:
> 
> 
> > For fermented sausages that are going to be cooked, I use live-culture yogurt......one heaping teaspoon yogurt and a couple tablespoons of water.
> ...






Who said fermentation is exclusive to dry curing?

I didn't.


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## solaryellow (Jan 23, 2012)

SausageBoy said:


> solaryellow said:
> 
> 
> > SausageBoy said:
> ...




I guess you must have bolded certain text by accident then.


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## sausageboy (Jan 23, 2012)

No, I don't think so.

This thread is about 'slim jims', I think......right???

'Slim Jims' can be made it several ways.

Fermento or the like added for 'tang'.
Fermented and cooked.
Fermented and dry-cured or semi-dry cured, un-cooked.

I mentioned both fermented and cooked as well as fermented and dry-cured (as a process), un-cooked.

Sorry for any confusion!


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## diggingdogfarm (Jan 24, 2012)

Yes, that recipes does have some major issues.

Too much salt.

Too much cure.

Starter culture and curing confusion.

Temperature confusion.

???


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## BGKYSmoker (Jan 24, 2012)

I just wanna jump in here.

We have allot of new sausage makers here trying to get all this down and create some nice sausage whether being fresh, smoked, or for the advanced semi dry and dry cured.

I'm not telling you not to go with the Lactic Acid starters for your sausage. The LA starters can be kinda tricky and SOME require a R/H factor with cold/heat to achieve the fermentation required with a level of PH for final tang. Some of these require equipment such as fermentation cabinets, temp controllers, R/H control and so on needed. Unless you have an enviroment where mother nature controls the hanging area.

If your wanting the so called TANG, There are a few ways to get this with either fermento, store bought buttermilk powder, ECA and even 100% fat free buttermilk which has Lactic Acid in it already.

SO

IMHO

Its called KISS

Keep

It

Simple

Stupid

If your a beginner follow the package instructions or if you need help ask here. If your going to make your own ingredients ask again for help. Many great sausage makers here that i'm sure can help. If you need a book there are a few out there to help.

So as a group we can help the new members in the sausage venture. None of us like to have meat tossed because it was not done right or even worse get SICK or someone else SICK.

Ask, Ask and if your not sure Ask again........There are no dumb or stupid questions. And if your not sure what your sausage is doing TAKE A PIC and post it so we can help (I know everyone has a camera) Never be embarrassed by a smoke that didnt go right....WE ALL BEEN THERE AND IT STILL HAPPENS.

We all have different results with our smokes. Yours may or may not resemble others sausage.

My ¢25 worth


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## smokinhusker (Jan 24, 2012)

Good question and helpful info! Thanks for the info. I have to admit, making sausage scares the hell out of me, but doesn't mean I won't give it a shot!


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## ldrus (Jan 24, 2012)

SausageBoy said:


> That recipe is a dud!
> Why add starter culture, but *NOT* allow enough time for proper fermenting?????
> I have recipe(s) for real fermented slim jims if that is what you want.....otherwise just add some fermento  or the like.
> :sausage:



sure if you have a slim jim recipe to share ill gives it a try


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## daveomak (Jan 24, 2012)

SausageBoy, I'm with Ikrus on this one....  it is time for the A#1 slim jim recipe from SausageBoy....  Give it up... Make sure all the details are there so they come out perfect....  Now, keep it simple as some of us are pretty much new at this.... I just bought casings and I am ready to go...

Dave


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## sausageboy (Jan 25, 2012)

DaveOmak said:


> ....  it is time for the A#1 slim jim recipe from SausageBoy....  Give it up... Make sure all the details are there so they come out perfect....



I can do without the sarcasm.

Maybe SolarYellow can help you with a recipe!?

I'm done with this thread, and likely the entire forum!!!!


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## solaryellow (Jan 25, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Sausageboy.

lkrus - This is a fairly decent recipe to start off with. I like to add ECA to it for a little more tang. Also, if you like spicy 1/4 - 1/2 cup of dried jalapeno or a full cup of fresh diced jalapeno works well.

http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Snack Sticks.pdf


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## BGKYSmoker (Jan 25, 2012)

We all like photos.

If we were big guy sausage companies we would not be here, We would be taking your $$ at the stores with an inferior sausage product.

So y'all home sausage makers post some pics and let us all drool.

OR


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## alblancher (Jan 25, 2012)

Yep,

Big difference doing something to make a living and doing something for the fun and experience of doing it.  I don't make much money with my smoking and sausage making efforts but I do make *a lot* of smiles!


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## BGKYSmoker (Jan 25, 2012)

alblancher said:


> Yep,
> 
> Big difference doing something to make a living and doing something for the fun and experience of doing it.  I don't make much money with my smoking and sausage making efforts but I do make *a lot* of smiles!




Same here.

Just some pocket change to replenish items.


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## sprky (Jan 25, 2012)

This has been very informative thread. I don't make sausage yet but plan too as soon as I get the equipment required together. That's a slow process., when you have limited funds. When that time comes I will be enlisting the help from all you sausage experts. Till that time I will keep reading and gathering knowledge on sausage making.


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## smokinhusker (Jan 25, 2012)

sprky said:


> This has been very informative thread. I don't make sausage yet but plan too as soon as I get the equipment required together. That's a slow process., when you have limited funds. When that time comes I will be enlisting the help from all you sausage experts. Till that time I will keep reading and gathering knowledge on sausage making.




I agree with Sprky, that this has been very informative. I've only made snack sticks twice (one with elk-turned out very good with an LEM Hand Grinder, duck not so good with LEM #8 Electric Grinder) using the info from Nepas, SausageBoy, Alblancher and others I may not have mentioned. If it had not been for you guys, I would never have even thought about trying to make sausage, nor would I have purchased the electric grinder or the sausage stuffer. 

My hat is off to all the knowledgeable and experienced sausage makers on here for your patience and help!!!!!!


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## ldrus (Jan 25, 2012)

thanks solar and sorry sausageboy for any grief caused you , you cant put a emotion or feeling with written text  i am sure u misunderstood some one  all is good  bro! dont go any where


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## DanMcG (Jan 26, 2012)

As DiggingDog mentioned earlier...........

Ya might want to use less cure then the recipe shows. That amount would put you at almost double the recommended allowable amount.

The couple of ingredient lists I found online for Slim Jims  list malic acid, which is similar to citric acid.


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## nick bombardo (Oct 18, 2013)

I have  recipe for making Genoa Salami and it calls for dextrose, lactic starter, and cure  #2.  I am not making a whole lot to start with only about 5lbs.  Any comments and where do I find the cures in small amounts?


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## daveomak (Oct 18, 2013)

Nick Bombardo said:


> I have  recipe for making Genoa Salami and it calls for dextrose, lactic starter, and cure  #2.  I am not making a whole lot to start with only about 5lbs.  Any comments and where do I find the cures in small amounts?


TheSausageMaker has supplies and supports this forum....

http://www.sausagemaker.com/meatcuring.aspx


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