# better than masterbuilt? please?



## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

everyone here loves masterbuilt. everyone here does all sorts of modifications to make it work better.

screw that. i'm not a mechanic.

i want something better. i found better for $1800.

i need an electric chunk burner that holds constant heat n cold smokes n smokes well under 200 degrees. i don't care about heat over 225.

does  anybody know of a smoker that's better? i can pay a couple hundred more than masterbuilt to get a quality machine. i can't pay $1800.

there must be something midway, but i haven't found it.

no need to convince me masterbuilt is good. i believe what you guys wrote. i just want options.


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## themule69 (Dec 19, 2014)

A mes out of the box works fine. Yes you can make it better. No you don't have to. Take a look in the electric smoker section. Spend the day reading reviews. Since I don't own any of the other electrics I won't try to tell you anything about them. Look at the Bradly and the Cook Shack just to name a couple. More money does not always mean better.

Happy smoken.

David


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

thanks, dave.

i have been reading reviews. i haven't found this info. that's why i started this thread.


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## chef willie (Dec 19, 2014)

I've got a Smokin' It #3 and like it fine for about $500. It's a Cookshack clone for about 1/3 the price, built like a tank. I understand they now come with PID's for super accurate temp control. I also have a pellet smoker that I like, Char Griller from Lowes for about $450...half the price of a Traeger and bigger. Good luck hunting....Willie


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## smesh (Dec 19, 2014)

The best thing I ever did was get the $59.99 cold smoker kit for my MES. I don't even use wood inside anymore even when hot smoking. I find that if I am hot smoking something like pork tenderloins at 225, the wood just burns up real fast and the smoke is too white. And running a cold smoke, even with ice is a pain burning wood inside. I just use the cold smoker, load it up and let it burn a bit before hooking up the duct. That way, it has a chance to get a good smoke going that's not so white. The other day I lit up three briquettes in my gas BBQ and then chucked them in the tray at the bottom of the MES cold smoker and put the wood on top. I didn't even use the element. I got a nice blue smoke after about 15 minutes and it lasted several hours.

This way I can control the smoke the way I want, don't have to load wood so often and when hot smoking, I can just adjust the main unit to the desired temperature without putting any wood inside. Works great.


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## bama bbq (Dec 19, 2014)

I smoke under 200*F all the time with my WSM. I can also crank it up to 325-350*F for brisket and poultry.  ...and everything in between.

Here is some bacon and jerky smoked below 100*F then, when the jerky was complete, I ramped up the heat slowly to finish the bacon.  Something I've been told a WSM cannot do.  (BTW: Yes it can! ...and without a temp controller.)













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...and here are some snack sticks and summer sausage:













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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

thanks guys. i'll look at every one of them.


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## red dog (Dec 19, 2014)

Smesh said:


> The best thing I ever did was get the $59.99 cold smoker kit for my MES. I don't even use wood inside anymore even when hot smoking. I find that if I am hot smoking something like pork tenderloins at 225, the wood just burns up real fast and the smoke is too white. And running a cold smoke, even with ice is a pain burning wood inside. I just use the cold smoker, load it up and let it burn a bit before hooking up the duct. That way, it has a chance to get a good smoke going that's not so white. The other day I lit up three briquettes in my gas BBQ and then chucked them in the tray at the bottom of the MES cold smoker and put the wood on top. I didn't even use the element. I got a nice blue smoke after about 15 minutes and it lasted several hours.
> 
> This way I can control the smoke the way I want, don't have to load wood so often and when hot smoking, I can just adjust the main unit to the desired temperature without putting any wood inside. Works great.


Smesh, I just did my fist smoke with my masterbuilt cold smoker a couple of days ago. I used pellets, shut the element off after it got going and cracked the ash drawer about 3/8 inch. Got nice TBS for almost 3 hours and the pellets were gone.


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## foamheart (Dec 19, 2014)

Before commenting I'd ask about your other pits/cookers. If the smoker is to be your first, I would have to think about weber. Why because its possible to grill, BBQ and smoke in one unit. If money is tight and you know someone handy,  you should look into the tamale pot mini conversion. Small light portable and large enough to cook for a single family.


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

see, red, that's what everyone on this side does. they say masterbuilt is great, then spend all their time fixing or modifying them til they work like they should right out of the box. that's insane.

foam, i have a pellet smoker. it won't give me the low temps i want. anyway, i love the ease of electric starting but i wanna burn wood chunks. gotta be better than pellets.

charcoal is too hard for me. the ease of pellets is my speed, but i want top results.

for me, that means constant temps n smoke with the ability to low temp smoke for long periods.

for example, i'm doing a ham dave's way, but i can't get near the temps he uses. the best i can do is 180. the pellet smoker really is made for 225 n up to 400. i sure don't need those temps.

i know most people here want quick results, but i prefer to smoke for days.

i ordered that amns smoke tray to try cold smoking but that's a temporary fix.


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## red dog (Dec 19, 2014)

I can't say for sure but I think you are going to have a problem finding the perfect electric smoker that will cold smoke and hot smoke right out of the box. Even the guys using cook shacks, smoken-it, bradley's, and MES have to add some type of cold smoke generation. I have used the AMNPS in my MES but even that generates heat. If the perfect electric smoker for 500.00 or less exists that will cold and hot smoke I would probably buy one too.


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

well, thanks red. i'll keep looking.

looks like units that run around $2000 can do that but i can't spend that much.


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## gathumper (Dec 19, 2014)

susieqz said:


> well, thanks red. i'll keep looking.
> 
> looks like units that run around $2000 can do that but i can't spend that much.


I can't spend 2k either, but I'm curious what unit you to which you are referring?


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

cookshack amerique @ $1800. if i was rich, i'd get this.


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## geerock (Dec 19, 2014)

Suzie
Before you drive yourself nuts I truly believe that the amazn pellet smoke tube will get you great smoke flavor in that traeger.  I use one in my traeger texas elite and lots of others do the same with their pellet eaters.  And if you want to do true cold smoking add a smoke daddy smoke generator.  Drill one hole for the smoke daddy to attach to the traeger and the generator will be external to the smoke chamber so very little added heat. And use GOOD QUALITY pellets, traegers pellets have very little flavor. If you are going to jump into the MES electric field be advised that the new generation MES is just starting to hit stores now.  They've made some design changes that may fix some if the issues you mention with the current mes models.  And I have always used small chunks in my mes chip loader.  Better smoke flavor and a longer smoke time.  If you are going to get an mes this new model may be the way to go.  Best advice I can give from a guy who has smoked in pits, offset stick burners, pellet cookers, and MES electric.  Best of luck.


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

thanks gee. i just ordered the amazin tray thingie. hopefully that will do as well as the tube. yes?

yeah, i found out about trager pellets. i bot more expensive ones n cheaper ones. all were better than trager.

have you a fav pellet?


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## geerock (Dec 19, 2014)

Because of the convection fan in the pellet cookers, the tube works much better than the tray.  More smoke and longer lasting.  I've tried both.  For me it adds the perfect amount of smoke flavor.  As far as pellets....BBQ Delite.  
Back to electrics, if the Amerique makes you hot, look into the Smokin It model 4.  Great size and its controlled with an Auber PID.  Rock solid and reliable temp control.  About 6 hundred less than cookshack so still not cheap but a great alternative.


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

super info, gee. thanks. looking at modle 4 right now


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## old sarge (Dec 19, 2014)

Regarding the Amerique:  The digital is built in and ready to go; temp is 140 to 300.  On the SI4, Auber is included, is not built in, temp is 140 to 250. The SI site has plenty of info for incorporating the Auber  giving you the option of digital or analog by way of a selection switch.  In other words, if one controller goes out, you have a back-up. For the other SI smokers, the Auber is a separation option.  Also visit SI's Facebook page, find the social store and purchase there for 5% off. For Cookshack, once the smoker is in the cart, you can select PayPal and pay over 6 months with no interest. Of course you can always back out without purchasing. For SI, in the cart, you can select shipping options depending upon how fast you want it.  Again, you can back out.


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

wow, sarge, i'm impressed.


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## old sarge (Dec 19, 2014)

Do your research with diligence.  Whether you spend $100 or $1000, money is still money. Here is a link to a company and it's products. Been around of decades. Sort of the 'old man of smokers.  Probably not what you are looking for, but.....

http://www.oldsmokey.com/products/electric-smoker?variant=350587737


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## susieqz (Dec 19, 2014)

somehow, i missed the cookshack smokette elite, which is more or less afordable. thanks sarge.


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## jted (Dec 20, 2014)

In the grand scheme of things you get what you pay for . If you just want a OK smoker and don't want to pay a lot for it the MES gen 1 is a great place to start. Let's face it they got real cheap this holiday season. Some will say they still are over priced but not me. There are other choices out there where you don"t have to spend a lot of money. Only you know your financial restraints. Others  have given you great advice. The botton line is what do you want and what are you willing to spend. You won't get a Corvette for a Malibu price. I am not being judge mental but as honest as I can be. But in my own mind if your price point is under 6 or 7 hundred dollars check out the SI line particularly the # 3. If you want to spend a couple of hundred to get into a  hobby look hard at the MES.  

 Jted


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## susieqz (Dec 20, 2014)

looks like i found the love of my life. the smokeshack elite 025 is  perfect for me. it won't cold smoke, but i ordered that amazin smoker anyway.

american made is cool.


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## old sarge (Dec 20, 2014)

Doubtful the amazin will work in the Cookshack.  Too air tight.  There are a few posts where folks had to drill additional holes in their smoker just to get sufficient air flow for the amazin to work.  The CS, the SI and the St are all roughly the same construction.  Doors have a compression fit; no gasket. Here is a link with multiple posts regarding the Amazin  products and peoples work arounds to get a harmonious connection.   In all likelihood, the smoker's warranty was voided.  Read them carefully.  

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/newsearch?search=amnps+and+smokintex


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## susieqz (Dec 20, 2014)

thanks, sarge. i hadn't really thot of vents but i sure want them. not gonna drill holes n void the warrenty on a $500 unit either.


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## old sarge (Dec 20, 2014)

All  of the smokers are vented.  In the floor, there is a drain hole for grease and drippings and a corresponding hole in the top where the smoke exits.  Convection brings in air from the bottom through the drain hole and this small amount of air allows a chunk of wood to smolder/or burn with no flame and smokes your food with the smoke filling the chamber and exiting thru the top. CS, SI and ST all work in the same manner and work well with SI and ST being analog/not digital. 

The MES GEN1 smoker is very popular, and is less money, and pretty much flawless in its operation.


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## susieqz (Dec 20, 2014)

off topic, i have a new reason to hate traeger. they told me the lowest setting, ''smoke'' would do 160 degrees. wrong at 30 degrees outside it's 95-100, whith a great deal of white smoke billowing out.

next, i tried the 180 setting. this holds around 200.

this pellet thing is only good for high temps. 225-400. i mostly smoke at 225. that works, but i wanted to use dave's low tem smoking for my  xmas ham.

well, at least i can keep it under 212.


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## geerock (Dec 20, 2014)

Never seen the traeger off that much unless the temp sensor is bad or needs a good cleaning.  May"be a bad connection or cut in the wire.  If its cold and windy and you haven't put a gasket around the lid it will screw up temps also.  Also have you cleaned out the firepot of ashes?


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## susieqz (Dec 20, 2014)

thanks, gee. no i haven't cleaned the ashes but i shall.

thing is, it does hold around 225 when set for that.

have you used lower settings?


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## old sarge (Dec 20, 2014)

Maintenance and cleanliness are critical. 

Here is a link to the Traeger area.http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/newsearch?search=traeger


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## susieqz (Dec 20, 2014)

here's something weird. since i was testing the smoker, i threw on some johnsonville brats. they cooked 1 hr at 100, then 2 hours at 200.

i didn't expect this, but they are better than those smoked at 225 which is my usual. in both cases i smoked to 165.

i know people get upset when you say low temps are better but it's easy to check this if you like johnsonville brats. i'm just reporting.


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## susieqz (Dec 20, 2014)

great tip, gee. thefire pot was1/2 full of ashes, plus thewhole bottom was  full. i probably cause my own problems with sloppy maintenence.i cleaned it out. i hope this isn't like a fireplace n works better with a bed of ashes?

anyway, i'm pretty happy, because of those brats. my new theory is that you can get most of the benefits of low temp smoking just by staying under 212.

gonna check that out.


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## daricksta (Dec 21, 2014)

I run my MES 30 Gen 1 with absolutely no mods and it's been working fine for over two years. The only thing I added was the A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker because I never use wood chips.


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## susieqz (Dec 21, 2014)

rick, do you only use pellets?

have you tested them against wood chunks?

i kinda thot chunks would give better flavor.


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## red dog (Dec 21, 2014)

If you get good quality pellets like those Todd sells with the AMNPS you won't notice any difference.


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## susieqz (Dec 21, 2014)

great to know.i just ordered a bag of todd's pellets.


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## daricksta (Dec 21, 2014)

susieqz said:


> rick, do you only use pellets?
> 
> have you tested them against wood chunks?
> 
> i kinda thot chunks would give better flavor.


Susie, I started out using wood chips because I didn't know about wood pellet smokers like the A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker. I didn't put wood chunks in my MES 30 because my understanding was that the wood chip loader and tray were designed for just that; wood chips. I found loading wood chips every 20-30 minutes too much of a hassle which is why I changed to using wood pellets. I think for a propane or charcoal grill or a charcoal bullet smoker, wood chunks would be fine. For the MES, I'd go with wood pellets.

Actually, wood is wood. Any good quality wood used for BBQ will impart great flavor. Red Dog is right; Todd Johnson sells top quality pellets. Wood pellets are essentially sawdust compressed under heat and pressure with a binding being applied to keep the pellet together. A number of manufacturers will add resins and other stuff as binders so that the cheaper pellets aren't 100% wood.

Todd also sells pellets in every "flavor" you'd ever need. I have Oak. Hickory, Mesquite, Pecan, Apple, and his own Pittmaster's Choice, which includes cherry wood in the mix. For my purposes and the flavor profiles I'm after, those are sufficient. In addition to using one wood pellet type, you can also mix oak and pecan or pecan and apple for smoking pork ribs or pulled pork, or any combo you want. That's part of the fun of home smoking.

In another thread I copy/pasted an article on how a company made their wood pellets because after editing out the company proprietary stuff, it told you how they're made and why among many smokers they're preferable. I took a BBQ class last summer and the instructor said he used wood pellets in his home smoker.

Here's that partial article below. Note that it says wood pellets are clean burning and don't leave much creosote behind, which is not the case with wood chunks.

*"WHY WOOD PELLETS:*

- FLAVOR = Wood pellets provide more flavor and offer a variety of flavors

- SMOKE = Wood Pellets provide more smoke with more consistency

- HEAT = Heat source is 100% natural wood pellets, no fuel or hot coals etc.

- CLEAN BURNING = Wood pellets product very little ash with very little creosote build up

- SAFE = Danger of fire from removing hot ash and embers is eliminated, unlike log burning units

*ABOUT PELLETS:*

Pellets are easily obtainable through the U.S. [The best are made from] 100% wood, food grade barbecue pellets specifically produced for use with food.  Barbecue pellet are made from hardwoods that contain fewer resins and are produced in a controlled process to ensure a food grade product.  (Heating pellets, on the other hand, are produced specifically for heat stoves and do not meet food grade requirements.)  Barbecue pellets are made by pulverizing hardwood sawdust and extruding to a uniform density through a rotating die under enormous heat and pressure (400 degrees F @ 10,000 PSI).  Naturally occurring lignin in the wood binds the pellets into their shape.  Pellets are then cooled and placed in...bags."


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## susieqz (Dec 21, 2014)

rick, thanks for all the details. looks like i was wrong about pellets.

mind you, i started with traeger pellets. they  were awful. since then, i've tried both cheaper pellets n more expensive ones.

all were better than traeger.

i have some of todd's cherry pellets coming because everyone here speaks so highly of him. got his smoker coming.

giving that much detail is very helpful for those with little experience. kind of you, rick.


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## jted (Dec 22, 2014)

susieqz said:


> rick, thanks for all the details. looks like i was wrong about pellets.
> 
> mind you, i started with traeger pellets. they  were awful. since then, i've tried both cheaper pellets n more expensive ones.
> 
> ...


I had a hard time keeping the pure cherry pellets to burn.  I read that I was not the only one. It had ben suggested to mix hickory or oak to keep them going. I contacted Todd At Amazen and he told me not to try and mix them but place them on top of the other hard wood pellets. It works, I start hickory and about 3/4 of a inch latter I layer the cherry.


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## geerock (Dec 22, 2014)

daRicksta said:


> Susie, I started out using wood chips because I didn't know about wood pellet smokers like the A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker. I didn't put wood chunks in my MES 30 because my understanding was that the wood chip loader and tray were designed for just that; wood chips. I found loading wood chips every 20-30 minutes too much of a hassle which is why I changed to using wood pellets. I think for a propane or charcoal grill or a charcoal bullet smoker, wood chunks would be fine. For the MES, I'd go with wood pellets.
> 
> *Actually, wood is wood.* Any good quality wood used for BBQ will impart great flavor. Red Dog is right; Todd Johnson sells top quality pellets. Wood pellets are essentially sawdust compressed under heat and pressure with a binding being applied to keep the pellet together. A number of manufacturers will add resins and other stuff as binders so that the cheaper pellets aren't 100% wood.
> 
> ...



Sounds like that was pasted from a company trying to sell pellets.

Someboby has to tell me why pellets have more "flavor" and "produce more smoke" than a comparable amount of wood in another form (like chunks).  Especially when we know they use an additive to bind the dust together.  Don't get me wrong, I love my pellet cooker, but there is no more creosote formed from natural wood than with pellets.  Creosote forms when the smoke and associated gases are mixed with moisture and is allowed to condense on surfaces, which in a cooker is not a lot as the interior tends to be around the same temp, unlike a long house chimney.  And considering the statement was made that "wood is wood", why would pellets be better and make a difference over chunks?  However, creosote forms much more easily when the temp is around 250 degrees or less, and the smoke is allowed to hang around the chamber instead of having good flow.  If you are allowing the smoke to flow freely you will have very little creosote build up inside a smoker like the MES and virtually none on your food.  If you do have a liquid forming on your food or walls its operator error, but you will get the same build up from chips, chunks, pellets, etc.  I have a stick burner, pellet cooker, electric, and smokehouse and there is no way that you get "better" flavor from a bound up dried sawdust pellet with a glue added, and the dried up flavorless chips most companies sell; compared to natural wood splits, logs, or chunks.  Maybe close and to some, the same..... but not better.  The efficiency of the burn, and the operation of the cooker is the key.  BTW daRicksta, regardless of how you think the design of MES was geared for (we all know how some of their designs were flawed in the gen 2 MES) try using some 4 or 5 inch long X 1 or so inch chunks in that loader and drop them into the tray.  Nice long gentle flavorful smoke.  Sure beats the hell out of dried up, flash burning chips.  All the best to everyone...and happy holidays.  I'm heading for the caribbean where I'll be smoking in 80 degree sunshine instead of this dark, cold, New England winter.  And I have to use natural wood down there as there are no pellets where I'm going (those savages) !!


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## old sarge (Dec 22, 2014)

Enjoy you vacation Geerock.


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## geerock (Dec 22, 2014)

Thanks, Sarge..... first time in 18 years.  If I don't come back you'll know the smoke and rum were both flowing well.


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## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

geerock said:


> Sounds like that was pasted from a company trying to sell pellets.
> 
> Someboby has to tell me why pellets have more "flavor" and "produce more smoke" than a comparable amount of wood in another form (like chunks).  Especially when we know they use an additive to bind the dust together.  Don't get me wrong, I love my pellet cooker, but there is no more creosote formed from natural wood than with pellets.  Creosote forms when the smoke and associated gases are mixed with moisture and is allowed to condense on surfaces, which in a cooker is not a lot as the interior tends to be around the same temp, unlike a long house chimney.  And considering the statement was made that "wood is wood", why would pellets be better and make a difference over chunks?  However, creosote forms much more easily when the temp is around 250 degrees or less, and the smoke is allowed to hang around the chamber instead of having good flow.  If you are allowing the smoke to flow freely you will have very little creosote build up inside a smoker like the MES and virtually none on your food.  If you do have a liquid forming on your food or walls its operator error, but you will get the same build up from chips, chunks, pellets, etc.  I have a stick burner, pellet cooker, electric, and smokehouse and there is no way that you get "better" flavor from a bound up dried sawdust pellet with a glue added, and the dried up flavorless chips most companies sell; compared to natural wood splits, logs, or chunks.  Maybe close and to some, the same..... but not better.  The efficiency of the burn, and the operation of the cooker is the key.  BTW daRicksta, regardless of how you think the design of MES was geared for (we all know how some of their designs were flawed in the gen 2 MES) try using some 4 or 5 inch long X 1 or so inch chunks in that loader and drop them into the tray.  Nice long gentle flavorful smoke.  Sure beats the hell out of dried up, flash burning chips.  All the best to everyone...and happy holidays.  I'm heading for the caribbean where I'll be smoking in 80 degree sunshine instead of this dark, cold, New England winter.  And I have to use natural wood down there as there are no pellets where I'm going (those savages) !!


Geerock, you are way too perceptive. I did indeed copy/paste that article from a company selling wood pellets along with their line of smokers. Right now I can't think of who it was and I'm too lazy to check my browsing history.

I won't comment _too much _on your comments about creosote because I'm not an expert but an argument could be made that the company accurately stated wood pellets leave much less creosote deposits than wood chunks. To me it's logical that larger wood chunks would produce more smoke than wood pellets. I think creosote is more of a byproduct of wood chunks and split logs because since they're larger than pellets and chips they would naturally produce more smoke and gases as byproducts to mix with the greater moisture produced my smokers and cookers using them for both heat and smoke sources. No scientific evidence to back this up but I'm picturing the inside of a large, offset reverse flow smoker compared with the inside of a MES. However, if you're talking about smaller wood chunks, I could agree with you. However, did you ever see the insides of those huge box or room smokers on TV? Covered with deposits on the walls. Is creosote among those deposits? I have no idea.

Good to know that creosote may not be an issue with Masterbuilts but I still wipe excess deposits off the inside walls. Ever since I started doing it I've had no problems with harsh, bitter tasting smoked meats and I made no change in how I use my AMNPS.

Please read my comments again. Susie was talking about burning wood chunks in a _Masterbuilt _which was definitely not designed to use wood chunks (an argument can be made that it wasn't designed to burn wood pellets either). As far as *wood is wood, *that is indeed an accurate statement. Please tell me the difference between the smoke flavors produced by high quality wood pellets, chips, chunks, or split logs. Hickory wood pellets, chips, chunks, logs will all impart the same smoke flavoring onto foods. That was my point.

As for being able to load wood chunks in the MES wood chip loader, I've yet to see wood chunks in bags that wouldn't have to be pared down to fit the loader, unless 1/4 to 1/3 of the bag is filled with tinier pieces like those found in bags of lump charcoal. I've never worked with wood chunks so I don't know how long the average chunks burns smoke. But after a year and a half I know how much smoke I get from a certain amount of wood pellets in my AMNPS and for about how long I'll get it.

Geerock, you made a good case for wood chunks in a MES but as almost everything with smoking, it's personal preference based on experience. I like wood pellets so they're what I recommend to newbies because, man, are you right about flash burning chips.

You are not allowed to respond to me until after you've returned from that 80° Caribbean weather. Here in the Pacific Northwest it'll be in the 40s with a wet to partly sunny Christmas. Call me a savage because if I had my choice I'd be smoking with wood logs and not pellets inside a HUGE smoker. And watch out for those hidden Scotch bonnets in the sauces, my friend.


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## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

Of course now I just read Susieqz has a Cookshack and not a MES, which I must have missed on the first read. In that case, Susie, forget everything I said about using wood pellets and just go with the wood chunks.


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## geerock (Dec 22, 2014)

Rick
we always agree that this smoking thing we do is always personal preference.  All we do is make suggestions and let others try and see what works for them.  Your advice is surely always appreciated.   As for poor Suzie .... I think before long she is going to own one of everything.  We got her hopping from one foot to the other and she's hardlydone any cooking yet.  Never an issue with your posts, buddy, just if you haven't tried it  well maybe......who knows?
Now if you don't all mind, I'm getting ready to head to the warm climates and this heathen is going to do some island smoking with the natives.....and I wish all you pellet munchers here a wonderful and happy holiday.


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## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

susieqz said:


> rick, thanks for all the details. looks like i was wrong about pellets.
> 
> mind you, i started with traeger pellets. they  were awful. since then, i've tried both cheaper pellets n more expensive ones.
> 
> ...


You're welcome, Susie. What Jted said about cherry pellets is what I've been told in these groups. Cherry is a difficult wood to keep lit in pellet form (had no problem with it as wood chips over hot charcoal briquettes). It's been advised to burn it with hickory or oak or some other easier-burning wood pellet. Todd mixes cherry with other woods in his Pitmaster's Choice.

I read in another comment of your that you have a Cookshack Smokette Elite which is designed to burn chip and chunks. Geerock commented about using wood chunks in the MES, which is what I thought you owned, which is why I recommended wood pellets. Your Cookshack is a different animal and chunks would probably work better for you.


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## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

geerock said:


> Rick
> we always agree that this smoking thing we do is always personal preference. All we do is make suggestions and let others try and see what works for them. Your advice is surely always appreciated. As for poor Suzie .... I think before long she is going to own one of everything. We got her hopping from one foot to the other and she's hardlydone any cooking yet. Never an issue with your posts, buddy, just if you haven't tried it well maybe......who knows?
> Now if you don't all mind, I'm getting ready to head to the warm climates and this heathen is going to do some island smoking with the natives.....and I wish all you pellet munchers here a wonderful and happy holiday.


You may be right about Susie but as I wrote a couple of times now, It got by me that she had a Cookshack Elite 025.

As for not trying wood chunks in the MES, you're right but I'm going off some research and remarks from the smokers here. I've yet to come across any of the MES "old timers" who use wood chunks; every one of them use the AMNPS. To me, if wood chunks worked great in the MES and left no creosote residue AND created smoke for hours, why wouldn't they use chunks? I sure would. I still maintain regular wood chunks wouldn't make it into the loader and if they had to be cut down to fit, it wouldn't make them much different than chips to my way of thinking. Of course not having used wood chunks I could be wrong, but then we're back to my point that no long time MES user I've grown to respect uses chunks.

I agree on your point that we've agreed and disagreed in these forums. But I get that everywhere I post. Enjoy your holiday with the heathens.


----------



## susieqz (Dec 22, 2014)

tun, could you please let me know how it makes food taste? there are some mentions that due to poor venting, you don't get the best smoke taste.

i haven't ordered one yet. i gotta save up or sell this traeger. the traeger is more of a grill, working best from 225 to 400 degrees. not what  i'm interested in.

of course, my head is awhirl. good points for MB, good points for CS.

the MB seems to need all these mods, but the CS maybe needs holes drilled into it.

i don't know how to  do mods or to drill steel.

i'm so excited. i have my ham sitting in cure for the last 9 days, tho i injected it 2 days later.

gonna start smoking tomorrow, but it's hard not to start this instant. i never curedanything before.


----------



## susieqz (Dec 22, 2014)

sorry for the confusion. i haven't got either machine yet. i misspoke.

i'll try using cherry pellets on top of mixed hardwoods. thanks for alerting me.


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## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

I took a BBQ Class (gifted to me by my beloved daughter for Father's Day) this past summer. They had a bunch of Traeger's which the guy said he was replacing ASAP. For him it was because he had a personal grudge against the guy who's their spokesperson or something. Anyway, I got to cook on one of them and I tell you, I'd go with another brand if I wanted that type of smoker/grill. I just didn't see how it was special enough to buy. Besides, I already own a Weber 22.5" kettle charcoal grill for grilling and I'm perfectly happy with it.

They're electric grills with an electric motor-powered auger which feeds pellets into the smoker box. When I see electric motors and stuff involved I then see potential and costly electric or mechanical breakdowns in the future. I also look at a new Traegar and then see an older, rusted Traegar in my backyard since I live in the rainy and sometimes snowy Pacific Northwest. That's one reason why I bought a MES 30; I can store it in my garage during the offseason (I don't smoke during the winter). It'll last rust-free for years this way. I store my Weber grill the same way for the same reason. I've read quite a few posts from guys with those offset smokers kept in backyards which needed replacing because they rusted out.

But, now Susie, you've got me totally confused about what you _do_ own!


----------



## old sarge (Dec 22, 2014)

Rick,

Is the 4th video in the lefthand column the GEN1?  Also the 1st video 3d column?

Dave

http://video.masterbuilt.com/


----------



## susieqz (Dec 22, 2014)

rick, i'm stuck with the traeger. i bot it before finding this site.

i posted a review about the worst customer service  i've seen.

you are right in all respects. moving parts, etc. not worth buying.

for me it's not what i need at all. it only runs well from 225-400 degrees. it's more like a grill.

since coming here, i've found an interest in smoking at lower temps. not just cold smoking.

i've found i can get it down to 200 degrees. that's what i'll cook my ham at, but i sure wish i could try at 150 or lower.

most people don't mind smoking at 225 but i know dave gets great results at temps far lower n  that's the way i'd like to go.

many people disagree, preferring 225 n up, but heck, it's a hobby.  for me, i'll just have more fun cooking really low n slow, smoking for days instead of hours.

so, i gotta get something that will  let me do that.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

old sarge said:


> Rick,
> 
> Is the 4th video in the lefthand column the GEN1?  Also the 1st video 3d column?
> 
> ...


Dave,

Just got back online now. I'm looking at that page now but it's slow loading. Unfortunately both you and Susie are offline now.


----------



## old sarge (Dec 22, 2014)

Rick, the page does indeed load slow.  And then the videos may stutter for a second or two.  But they are good.  I know the GEN1 has the controls on the top rear, but what about the remote?  GEN1.1?


----------



## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

old sarge said:


> Rick,
> 
> Is the 4th video in the lefthand column the GEN1?  Also the 1st video 3d column?
> 
> ...


Dave,

For whatever reason I'm having problems running the videos on that page no matter which browser I use. I did see some of the first one and it is a Gen 1 with the redesigned control panel and other stuff


old sarge said:


> Rick, the page does indeed load slow.  And then the videos may stutter for a second or two.  But they are good.  I know the GEN1 has the controls on the top rear, but what about the remote?  GEN1.1?


NOW you tell me it's running slow?????? I'll try downloading the video and check it out. The other video--if I understood which one you directed me to--was the Butterball turkey fryer so that can't be right. Gee, the font color here keeps changing to white.

Yep, this is a MES 30 (or 40) Gen 1 sometimes called the Sportsmans Elite and designed to be sold by outdoors equipment dealers like Cabela's, Academy, etc. Maybe Sam's Club carries them. I think they come with or without a wireless remote. I saw the remote laying on top of the smoker in the video. I think they also can come with six racks instead of the standard four. I guess it can be customized for the individual retailer's needs.

Just looked at the other videos. They're all the same Sportsmans Elite model, which is the retailer-customized Gen 1.


----------



## old sarge (Dec 22, 2014)

The first I referenced was the 30 inch, controller in the rear.  The second also had the controller in the rear but came with a remote.

Sorry you are having trouble downloading. Not real important. But if you get it running, let me know.  Both units are on their web page; just no indication of generation.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

old sarge said:


> Rick,
> 
> Is the 4th video in the lefthand column the GEN1?  Also the 1st video 3d column?
> 
> ...


Dave, you're the Cookshack expert here. Can you help Susie out with making her decision? I know about Masterbuilts but if she's thinking CS you're the man to advise her.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

old sarge said:


> The first I referenced was the 30 inch, controller in the rear.  The second also had the controller in the rear but came with a remote.
> 
> Sorry you are having trouble downloading. Not real important. But if you get it running, let me know.  Both units are on their web page; just no indication of generation.


Wonder why SMF claims I'm offline now?


----------



## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

old sarge said:


> The first I referenced was the 30 inch, controller in the rear.  The second also had the controller in the rear but came with a remote.
> 
> Sorry you are having trouble downloading. Not real important. But if you get it running, let me know.  Both units are on their web page; just no indication of generation.


As I wrote, the MES Gen 1 models come with or without wireless remote but only the ones with the windows have that option.


----------



## old sarge (Dec 22, 2014)

Got it. Should be an easy choice for anyone on a tight budget.  Just have to decide whether to get the 30 or 40 inch.  Thanks.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 22, 2014)

susieqz said:


> rick, i'm stuck with the traeger. i bot it before finding this site.
> 
> i posted a review about the worst customer service  i've seen.
> 
> ...


Susie, had I known you already owned a Traeger I would have softened my criticism of it. Remember that Costco sells it along, sometimes, with Landmann smokers. The BBQ teacher thought Traeger was fine product because he not only had like six set up he was also a Traeger dealer. His problem with that guy with Traeger was one of wounded ego; had nothing to do with the grills/smokers themselves. Are you looking to replace the Traeger because it's broken or because you don't like it? You may have already stated your reason but I missed the post.

Traeger is both a grill and a smoker because you can use it with or without the smoke box. And I tell you, 225-275 is the sweet spot for low and slow cooking. 300-400° are grilling temps for meats, poultry, fish, and vegies. I read the wood pellet feeder automatically comes on when you power on the Traeger. Do you have the option on the control board of switching that feeder off if you don't want to apply smoke to whatever you're grilling?

As for low and slow smoking, I don't know anyone who smokes below 215°. I think to cook at even as low as 200° would take forever, even more so at 150°. For really low temps, you're talking cold smoking but you don't do that with a ham. My favorite temp (following the advice of Ray "Dr. BBQ" Lampe) has been 235, another guy likes 242. Myron Mixon, the champion Q guy, prefers 275. Other people like 225 or 250--I might try 245 next or maybe even rest my set point on 250 for awhile. It's all personal choice but from my limited experience, 200 and below is just too low.

Oh, I don't believe in smoking for days: I'm not even an overnight smoke guy. If I can't get it done with 6 hours, I'm not smoking it. Besides, I'm typically smoking meat for 2-3 people so we're talking less than 10 pounds of meat here. You can easily smoke a brisket that small to perfection in less than 10 hours, depending on various factors. Same with a Boston butt (pork shoulder). St. Louis style or baby back ribs are done in less than 6 hours. I've done all these on my MES 30 Gen 1 using the AMNPS.


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## old sarge (Dec 22, 2014)

Here is an article that might clear things up:

http://butchersupply.net/blog/2010/04/01/hot-smoking-and-cold-smoking-whats-the-difference/


----------



## susieqz (Dec 22, 2014)

thanks sarge. it does look as if you can hot smoke under 212.if i understand that article. you guys may be right that 225 n up is best, but i wanna find out for myself. i do know it's sucessfully done. dave does it. i  need to compare the two methods. i did find out that sausages are better under 200 than those at 225. i tried that myself.

rick, you can say nothing bad about traeger that i won't second. your comments were all correct.

this grill doesn't have the ability to cook without burning pellets. nor is it insulated.

it will hold a heat of 225, plus or minus 5. when i tried the 180 setting, it's about 200. traeger doesn't try for heat under 225.

when i called them, they said the 180 setting is more for cold weather starting than cooking.

i got this before i found this site. i'll try to sell it to someone who mostly grills n just occasionally smokes.

i'm not interested in grilling.

some folks here are happy with traeger. i think they haven't dealt with customer service.

in any event, they just want different things in a smoker than i do. since it goes up to 400, it certainly can crisp skin.

i'm happy they got what they need. it's just not what i need.


----------



## old sarge (Dec 22, 2014)

The MES with an AMNPS should suit your needs. Find TJohnson in the posts regarding MES or AMNPS and query him.  He developed the AMNPS so should be able to help you tremendously.

Or try this link to get started:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/173637/todds-amnps-makes-it-big-time-featured-on-the-food-network


----------



## susieqz (Dec 22, 2014)

thanks sarge.

that amnps should be here on xmas eve. i'm looking forward to playing with it.


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## daricksta (Dec 23, 2014)

susieqz said:


> thanks sarge. it does look as if you can hot smoke under 212.if i understand that article. you guys may be right that 225 n up is best, but i wanna find out for myself. i do know it's sucessfully done. dave does it. i  need to compare the two methods. i did find out that sausages are better under 200 than those at 225. i tried that myself.
> 
> rick, you can say nothing bad about traeger that i won't second. your comments were all correct.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Susie. The thing about this group is it's chockfull of knowledgeable people. I was introduced to Todd Johnson and his A-MAZE-N products here. I've been taught smoking techniques that enabled me to up my game. I learned much about my MES 30 that wasn't covered in the owners manual. What I now do is try to return the favor my imparting what knowledge and experienced I've gained to newbies, which is exactly what I was about 2.5 years ago.

I'm betting if you set the price right you can easily sell that Traeger, especially if it's in good shape.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 23, 2014)

old sarge said:


> Here is an article that might clear things up:
> 
> http://butchersupply.net/blog/2010/04/01/hot-smoking-and-cold-smoking-whats-the-difference/


Cool article. What gets me about fresh salmon is that it be hot or cold smoked depending on how you plan to serve it.


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## old sarge (Dec 23, 2014)

Let us not overlook raw, sliced wafer thin!


----------



## daricksta (Dec 23, 2014)

old sarge said:


> Let us not overlook raw, sliced wafer thin!


Lox? Oh, Sarge, don't get me started on lox--Nova or otherwise. Lox, mmm.....


----------



## old sarge (Dec 23, 2014)

Flat out raw, Japanese style.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 23, 2014)

My daughter is the one you want to talk raw fish with. The last time I tried sushi was the last time I wanted to try sushi.


----------



## red dog (Dec 23, 2014)

Raw fish ,no. Parasites people. Some people are under the mistaken assumption that raw sushi is somehow healthier than cooked. I would eat raw fish in a survival situation. But that's it. At least salt cure it. No sushi for me!


----------



## susieqz (Dec 23, 2014)

i know some people love sushi. i tasted it once. it tastes like bait.


----------



## cmayna (Dec 23, 2014)

wow


----------



## old sarge (Dec 23, 2014)

Actually, I was referring to sashimi. It can be raw fish, or raw meat for that matter.  Sushi is a vinegared rice, with a filling of veggies or meat/fish, or nothing other than the rice.  The vinegar acts as a preservative.  Wrapped in dried seaweed.  In any event, beer helps.


----------



## jted (Dec 30, 2014)

Sarge, sorry I can't drink enough beer.


----------



## old sarge (Dec 30, 2014)

It is an acquired taste.


----------



## rgautheir20420 (Dec 30, 2014)

Red Dog said:


> Raw fish ,no. Parasites people. Some people are under the mistaken assumption that raw sushi is somehow healthier than cooked. I would eat raw fish in a survival situation. But that's it. At least salt cure it. No sushi fo*(R)* me!


I can almost feel you squinting your eyes making fun of whole races of people here. Can we get this edited?

FWIW, raw fish is often healthier than cooked fish. Why? Cooked fish is more often than not cooked with oils and fats or fried. If steaming the fish isn't the cooking method, then my slice of raw salmon (which is my favorite sashimi) is gonna be healthier than yours.


----------



## wade (Dec 30, 2014)

The fish you eat as commercial Sushi is parasite free as it has previously been deep frozen - usually on the boats down to -60 F. This destroys any parasites that may be in the fish, making it perfectly safe to eat.


----------



## susieqz (Dec 30, 2014)

you know, these weird swings that topics here take. are charming.

someone said something about ''hijacking''. that's silly.

i love that people here just speak their mind about stuff that comes into their mind.

i do that n i think it's fun.


----------



## susieqz (Dec 30, 2014)

hahaha. comments like that make this site.

wish i could try actual moonshine.

especially if it's tax free.


----------



## a g k (Dec 30, 2014)

Suzie,   I have tried some moonshine recently that was called Midnight Moonshine that was purchased from a local liquor store. After a small taste of it, decided it was the kind of stuff you would give a small taste to your friends & a LARGE taste to your enemies. It remains in its mason jar.

AGK


----------



## susieqz (Dec 30, 2014)

agk, did it taste like high proof vodka?


----------



## a g k (Dec 30, 2014)

Suzie,  I'm no expert on hi proof vodka, but moonshine is not aged at all & is rather sharp tasting.

AGK


----------



## daveomak (Dec 30, 2014)

rgautheir20420 said:


> I can almost feel you squinting your eyes making fun of whole races of people here. Can we get this edited?
> 
> FWIW, raw fish is often healthier than cooked fish. Why? Cooked fish is more often than not cooked with oils and fats or fried. If steaming the fish isn't the cooking method, then my slice of raw salmon (which is my favorite sashimi) is gonna be healthier than yours.



How did you come to figure racism in this post.....  I'm confused.....


----------



## susieqz (Dec 30, 2014)

i didn't see racism either.


----------



## daveomak (Dec 30, 2014)

Red Dog said:


> Raw fish ,no. Parasites people. Some people are under the mistaken assumption that raw sushi is somehow healthier than cooked. I would eat raw fish in a survival situation. But that's it. At least salt cure it. No sushi fo me!




Unedited post ......


----------



## rgautheir20420 (Dec 30, 2014)

Guess it's just me then. Feel free to disregard or remove the post then.


----------



## red dog (Dec 30, 2014)

Did someone seriously suggest my post was racist? You are joking right?


----------



## old sarge (Dec 30, 2014)

Need to get back on track. Better than a Masterbuilt?


----------



## daveomak (Dec 30, 2014)

OK.....   I think the phrase.....   "Parasites people......"      was misinterpreted...  is the only thing I can come up with....   

I know it refers to the possibility of parasites in the fish, not that the "people are parasites.... "   

HEY, I get dyslexic... and confused....  and interpret stuff differently than others....   I'm calling it an HONEST mistake...  

OK..... I'm gone to get a beer to celebrate our truce....    

Dave


----------



## wade (Dec 31, 2014)

A G K said:


> Suzie,   I have tried some moonshine recently that was called Midnight Moonshine that was purchased from a local liquor store. After a small taste of it, decided it was the kind of stuff you would give a small taste to your friends & a LARGE taste to your enemies. It remains in its mason jar.
> 
> AGK


We bought several jars of that in the summer while we were in Monte Rio, Ca. It was surprisingly smooth. We still have half a jar left. The one with the strawberries in it was really good. I don't think my eyesight has been affected too much...


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## daricksta (Dec 31, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> How did you come to figure racism in this post..... I'm confused.....


Just read your post and the response. There was nothing racist in what you stated--nothing. Gramatically, there should have been a comma between "Parasites" and "people" just for clarity for some people.  I read your comment and immediately got what you meant. Don't know if the person who accused you of squinting your eyes and making fun of whole races of people was serious or only joking. Either way, it was an inappropriate response which indeed can be edited to take out what I deem is an offensive comment to you. I frequently edit my posted comments. Very easy to do.

These forums are for sharing info and helping people, not for personal attacks, humorous or otherwise.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 31, 2014)

Wade said:


> We bought several jars of that in the summer while we were in Monte Rio, Ca. It was surprisingly smooth. We still have half a jar left. The one with the strawberries in it was really good. I don't think my eyesight has been affected too much...


You just made me homesick. We moved from Sonoma County to Washington state 14 years ago. I haven't heard mention of Monte Rio in all this time. It's one beautiful place down there along the Russian River, right next to Guerneville. Where we live now is beautiful but I sure miss that area--and all those wineries and vineyards in the County.


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## tjohnson (Dec 31, 2014)

*Let's get back ontrack here....*

*The OP is asking about electric smoker options, not moonshine*

*Lots of people use CookShack, Smokin-It or Smoking Tex Smokers*

*Bradley makes a good unit too*

*For $500 - $600 you can get a pretty darn good smoker*

*Why can't you use your Traeger?*

*Another option is to cold smoke your ham for a couple hours, and finish it off in your Traeger or oven*

*Todd*


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## susieqz (Dec 31, 2014)

todd, the main problem with the traeger is that i can't get it to work well under 225.

others here think 225 is fine for everything but i believe that cured meats need temps under 200.

also, i posted a review of traeger the company. they have the worst customer service on this continent.

their philosophy is screw the consumer, ignore the law.

every word i posted about traeger is true.


----------



## tjohnson (Dec 31, 2014)

*Your controller should go down to 180°*

*Smoke Mode is actually 160° or so*

*Is there a little hole in your controller, just above the digital readout?*

*Some Traeger controllers can be adjusted with the "P Setting"*

*This changes the timing of the auger when it dumps pellets, and will change the temp of your smoker*

*I can get my Treaeger Texas down to 140°- 160° depending on the ambient temp*

*I understand how frustrating customer service can be sometimes*

*Traeger has a new owner, and their philosophy is quite different than before*

*From what I've seen, it's a very positive step in the right direction for them*


----------



## susieqz (Dec 31, 2014)

no, todd. i purchased it in july. they tried to get me to fix a unworking unit myself. they refused to replace it til i had visa stop payment.

this is not  lawful. we have a doctrine of implied merchantability in the usa. it must work right out of the box or be replaced.

they only get away with this because most people won't bring suit over $400' i stand by my statement they have the worst customer service i've seen.

they only sent a new unit after i stopped payment.

i am still admitted to the nys bar. i know the law.

as to smoking under 225, i tried an ovrernight smoke at 180. for 1 hour, it was 190. then for 4 hours it was 110. at hour 6 it ran up to 365.

when i called traeger, they told me not to use 180. try smoke n call back if that doesn't work.

typical traeger.


----------



## tjohnson (Dec 31, 2014)

*WOW...That's Crazy!*

*Makes you wanna drive to their office and throw the unit thru their window!*

*So, now you're stuck with an "Ugly Step Child" that you really don't want to love....Correct?*

*I would suggest you either find a way to make it work, or dump it on Craigslist, and start over*

*I can tell you from my own experience with pellet grills, that I really like the things*

*Heck, I own 3 of them!*

*Do you want to take a swing at making your Traeger work?*

*Do you have access to good pellets?*

*Todd*


----------



## susieqz (Dec 31, 2014)

yes todd, i'd love to get this traeger working. one thing i must say, in fairness. it started at 6 degrees  this morn. i had to whack it n it started. it seems to be holding heat from 225 to 235, which is fine. it never had problems at 225after i got it working.

here's something funny. the replacement unit was missing the wire that goes from the controler   to the inside of the box. i had to use 2 units to get one working.

my problem is getting temps under 200 for my home cured meats. if i could fix that i'd be happy.

are you offering me the chance to trade in this amns for one that works in the  traeger?

i've already heated it in my oven to clean the oils.

i didn't know this one wasn't for the traeger.


----------



## susieqz (Dec 31, 2014)

oh, i bot this from you. rhonda handled it. as to pellets, i got them from you too.

if a tube is what i need that's what i'd like.


----------



## daricksta (Dec 31, 2014)

TJohnson said:


> *Let's get back ontrack here....*
> 
> *The OP is asking about electric smoker options, not moonshine*
> 
> ...


What's an OP?


----------



## old sarge (Dec 31, 2014)

Original/originating poster (I think).


----------



## rgautheir20420 (Dec 31, 2014)

old sarge said:


> Original/originating poster (I think).


Correct


----------



## tjohnson (Dec 31, 2014)

Yup


----------



## old sarge (Dec 31, 2014)

First time I have been correct on something this week.  Life is looking good now.


----------



## susieqz (Dec 31, 2014)

yay ! i'm an OP !

 giggle.


----------



## daveomak (Dec 31, 2014)

susieqz said:


> yay ! i'm an OP !
> giggle.




Yes you are....   an OP....  Could be worse....  :biggrin:

Happy New Year !!!!


----------



## daricksta (Dec 31, 2014)

Thanks. Now I know some more abbreviated jargon!


----------



## old sarge (Dec 31, 2014)

Personally I dislike abbreviations.   Which is why I detest texting ( I spell complete words but replies come back in horrible abbreviations) and I will never ever resort to twitter and the like. We are going to have an entire generation of pathetic spellers and with schools no longer teaching cursive folks won't even be able to sign their own name or read a hand written letter or document.  Thank the Heavens above for barbecue!!


----------



## susieqz (Dec 31, 2014)

pretty funny, sergeant.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 1, 2015)

susieqz said:


> pretty funny, sergeant.




sergeant....... now that's funny.......    :th_HaHAAHaa:


----------



## old sarge (Jan 1, 2015)

In retrospect, I reckon my comment does sound funny. 

Happy New Year to one and all.


----------



## susieqz (Jan 1, 2015)

oh, i agree with your basic point. you are correct. still, you used an abrieviation in your post, that's now gone. it was funny.

hugzzz


----------



## joopster (Jan 1, 2015)

I didn't read the entire thread but a mini with a AMNPS is about all you need. I can do ribs, pork shoulder and turn around the next minute and cold smoke cheese.  Awesome little machine and for under 150.00 you can't beat it.


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## daricksta (Jan 1, 2015)

old sarge said:


> Personally I dislike abbreviations.   Which is why I detest texting ( I spell complete words but replies come back in horrible abbreviations) and I will never ever resort to twitter and the like. We are going to have an entire generation of pathetic spellers and with schools no longer teaching cursive folks won't even be able to sign their own name or read a hand written letter or document.  Thank the Heavens above for barbecue!!


I never even use LOL.

And you were thanking the Heavens above for BBQ, right?


----------



## old sarge (Jan 1, 2015)

You all caught it before I caught my error.


----------



## susieqz (Jan 1, 2015)

sarge, things are worse than you said. the infection has spread to the speaking vocabulary. 

get this. i have heard people  in face to face conversation say , BF [boy friend].

also, BFF [best friend forever].

these gals were sitting at the same table, not typing.

we are doomed.


----------



## susieqz (Jan 1, 2015)

joop, what is a mini?


----------



## joopster (Jan 1, 2015)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/159572/my-mini-build-thread-with-buildit-view

That's a mini!


----------



## susieqz (Jan 1, 2015)

thanks joops. i read the thread but don't understand. you build it yourself? what's the advantage? how much are parts? you mentioned $150. the MES30 is on sale for $129.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 1, 2015)

susieqz said:


> thanks joops. i read the thread but don't understand. you build it yourself? what's the advantage? how much are parts? you mentioned $150. the MES30 is on sale for $129.




You haven't bought that yet.....


----------



## susieqz (Jan 1, 2015)

nah, dave. the thread about poor cold weather performance has me thinking. i have til monday to decide.

anyway, i'm snowed in. no ups deliveries or anything.

i'm sure not driving this week.


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## ladygt (Jan 2, 2015)

Susieqz, I love your posts. We think alike. You ask what's better than a Masterbuilt, well from the very short time I owned a MES (1 week), my husband and I are now converts of The Big Green Egg.  I originally came here looking to learn more about the MES we just purchased and read so many negative posts after we received ours. Ours was defective right out of the box.  After reading about how others have had problems with inaccurate temps, modifications and replacement parts, we decided not to replace it. There were other issues unrelated which convinced us look for something different.  We have a garage full of stuff and did not have a covered patio to protect it from bad weather which meant our smoker had to be fueled by charcoal. Georgia is very humid and gets lots of rain. A MES is not watertight and will eventually rust just like anything else made of metal here.

We ended up purchasing a Big Green Egg.  We were not happy with the price for the unit but what you get in return is better than a MES.  No more worries about weather.  It can be used all year round in the rain or snow and stored outside not taking up premium storage space in the garage.  The temps can be held longer and easier than a MES. The insulation of an EGG is fantastic for keeping temps where you want it because of the ceramic composition. No inside wire corrosion worries with an Egg. Cost to use is cheaper also. When done cooking, you just close it up and the remaining charcoal is saved to be used the next time. 

An Egg is more versatile because it can be used like a grill, pizza oven and as a smoker. I admit it cannot smoke as much meat at one time as an electric smoker. For empty nesters like us, it would be too much anyway. But you do not have to worry about keeping it dry if the weather changes and it doesn't have to be cleaned because the debris burns off. It also keeps temps better and longer because it is so well insulated. We sampled a piece of smoked meat at a store selling Eggs and the flavor convinced us that this met our needs.

I cannot say enough good things about a Big Green Egg in comparison to a MES. My husband loves his Egg.  It will last longer than a MES if it's well taken care of too. Keep in mind, you get what you pay for. I wish we knew about this product when we first got married which was 35 years ago because we are on number 3 Weber gas grill.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## rgautheir20420 (Jan 2, 2015)

Not to knock the BGE, because I'd love to own one one day, but that's not at all a fair comparison to the MES. You are right when you say you get what you pay for...and that's for a reason. You're paying many times what an MES costs. It's like comparing a Porsche to a Hyundai....

Regardless, I hope for the day I can have a BGE sitting in that nice wood specialty made setup in my back yard!!! I can picture the house that backs up to the creek and my boat now!


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## ladygt (Jan 2, 2015)

No competition for sure, but why go through what an MES puts you through? Inaccurate temps, storage issues, parts wearing out, electrical shorts, possible wire corrosion, a 1 year warranty, and calling customer service. I learned all this from the members here in a week.  Why deal with all that crap if you don't need to? Why not buy something really good the first time so you don't have to deal with the hassle of replacing/repairing something in the future.  Maybe this is the difference between men and women's thinking. Men like to fix stuff and women don't. lol.  I am willing to spend more for a better product which should last longer as well.


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## gathumper (Jan 2, 2015)

I don't know much, and don't own either a Masterbuilt smoker or a ceramic cooker like the Big Green Egg (or Kamado Joe). I have owned a 22" Weber Smokey Mountain for about 5 years and have no complaints and it has produced great smokes every time I have used it. The only issue I have with it is using it in cold temperature where I have to use more charcoal and watch it closer.

So I ended up on this forum when I decided I might need to add an electric smoker to the mix. My reasoning was to get into low temp smoking, jerky, snack sticks and other smoked/cured meats. The combination of steady regulated temperature and more space for product lead me to the electric smokers.

I arrived here before purchasing a 40" Masterbuilt and have been mulling it over for a few weeks now. During that time I had come to the conclusion I would be better served with a Smokin-It #3 or perhaps the #4 from Steve at - http://www.smokin-it.com/

My thoughts are well documented here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...c-smoker-masterbuilt-40-or-cookshack-clone/40

I had also been looking at ceramic cookers and had made the decision to buy a Kamado Joe. http://www.kamadojoe.com/index.php

I believe these are different and complementary products and see no reason, for me, not to have both. The ceramic cooker/smoker will allow me to smoke ribs, butts, brisket, poultry, etc. with little concern for ambient temperature. It will also be used for high temp grilling/cooking such as steaks and with a pizza stone and 700 degree temperature should make a nice pie!. The electric smoker will do ribs, butts, brisket, etc. if I choose to use it for them, but will give me the space and temperature control for smoked/cured meats (and hopefully cheese).

The only downside I see is cost, and I'm old, employed, and work hard to allow myself to buy things like this. I'm still looking at the Masterbuilt as an option, I believe it would work fine if you didn't experience any of the reported problems. And I think for every problem reported on the old interweb, there are many satisfied users who don't bother getting online to say it's working fine, so I don't have a good feel for the percentage of failures.

I've talked to Masterbuilt several times and read a lot of mostly good feedback on the company and their service, with a few not so good. I've talked with Steve at Smokin-It and found almost 100% good feedback on them, so that's the direction I;m leaning for my electric smoker purchase.

I've been following your delimma and sure am sorry to hear of the problems (product and service) you have had. Smoking is supposed ot be fun and relaxing! (my opinion) Based on what you are trying to do with your smoker, you may want to take a look at Smokin-It and give Steve a call if you have any questions.

Best of luck in the new year with you smoking!


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## rgautheir20420 (Jan 2, 2015)

If the BGE was "a little more" than the MES30 than that might be a different story but it's not. And you are right, there are a number of MES horror story threads out there....as with any product. I'm guessing you've read all the threads about peoples positive experiences with them also.

My personal experience? Never had 1 issue right out of the box...and I bought a "Like New" unit from Amazon. One of the ones tested, but might have a ding or whatever. It was cheaper and came in perfect condition minus a ripped cardboard box. 

It all boils down to what you can afford or are willing to pay for a smoker. Of course your smoking needs come into play also, and the MES has suited my needs perfectly as has it many others. BUT, I know the BGE has suited many smokers as well, so I hope it provides you with years of great Q. Don't forget to the photos!


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## daricksta (Jan 2, 2015)

I own and love my MES 30 Gen 1 which proves they're not all defective and not all owners hate them. Yes, lemons can come off any assembly line but check out the Masterbuilt discussion group to see how many satisfied owners there are. As for modifications, that's an individual decision. Mine works fine without any mods at all. I do use the AMNPS to burn wood pellets but that's it.

As for the Big Green Egg, I got to use one once and I know some people who own one. They're very good but also expensive. Besides, a BGE wouldn't be suitable for Susie because it doesn't go below 275° which rules it out for true low and slow smoking, although there are pros and home BBQers who cook at that temp.

The other thing is the precaution needed before lifting the lid to turn or add meat and vegies. The BGE needs to be "burped" to prevent a shot of red hot flame singeing one's hair and eyebrows. The burp technique was demonstrated by a BBQ instructor at a class I took last year. For my purposes, the MES 30 works extremely well and is more flexible because I can also cold smoke with it, which is what Susie's interested in as well.


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## susieqz (Jan 2, 2015)

i think lady is right. men love to tinker. the majority of members seem to have MBs, they love them, but spend all their time modifying them.

i'm not a mechanic n actually hate trying to fix or modify things.

for my needs n general laziness i think i need an electric smoker that i can smoke on but otherwise ignore.

had i found this site before i bought the trager, i'd own a cookshack. only a few hundred more than traeger. equivalent in price to the big green egg.

now that i've seen the thread about MBs not working in the cold, i'm gonna save up for something like cookshack. i smoke weekly, year round.

i'll save up til i can afford something i'll be happy with.

rick, you are the only one i know here that doesn't run around adding various electrical components n hardware to his MB.

these other folks don't have lemons, just smokers that are sub optimum.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 2, 2015)

Yeah, Why go through the hassle of buying an electric smoker for $350, like the MES 40 Gen #1, with a glass door, remote digital control, and have to put up with outstanding cooking for already well over 4 years, without any problems!!

Bear


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## susieqz (Jan 2, 2015)

bear, i wonder about the glass door. how do you keep it clean?

when it is clean, what do you use it for?

i'm not disputing you. these are honest questions.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 2, 2015)

susieqz said:


> bear, i wonder about the glass door. how do you keep it clean?
> 
> when it is clean, what do you use it for?
> 
> i'm not disputing you. these are honest questions.


I clean it just like I clean the glass in my living room pellet stove---Not a hard job.

If you get it every time, it's real easy to clean, but if you get lazy & skip cleaning for a few times, and you bake the discoloration on, just like a Pellet or wood stove, it gets harder to clean.

I like to see what's going on inside, but I don't like to open the door.

I can see if some pieces are getting done quicker than others. I can see how heavy the smoke is, 

I can see everything I used to wonder about & open the door to see when I had my first MES 30 without a glass door.

I wouldn't want to go back to a smoker without a glass door.

I'm Spoiled !!

Bear


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## susieqz (Jan 2, 2015)

k, bear. i think we just have different cooking styles. i've never used or even seen in person a glass  doored smoker.

all i can compare it to is my kitchen oven  it came with a glass door which is a pain to clean. plus i can't remember, even once, using that window for anything.

so, just speaking for my kitchen, i prefer no windows.

since opening doors is more of a problem in a smoker, perhaps the window is more valuable there.

what  cleaning product do you use? maybe i can use it on my oven.


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## daveomak (Jan 2, 2015)

susieqz said:


> i think lady is right. men love to tinker. the majority of members seem to have MBs, they love them, but spend all their time modifying them.
> i'm not a mechanic n actually hate trying to fix or modify things.
> for my needs n general laziness i think i need an electric smoker that i can smoke on but otherwise ignore.
> .
> ...




My MES 30 works in the cold.... I have smoked at 5 deg. F...   all you need to do is get a hair dryer....  You got one ?????   and trick the sensor, inside the CC, to thinking it is warm outside...


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## Bearcarver (Jan 2, 2015)

susieqz said:


> k, bear. i think we just have different cooking styles. i've never used or even seen in person a glass  doored smoker.
> 
> all i can compare it to is my kitchen oven  it came with a glass door which is a pain to clean. plus i can't remember, even once, using that window for anything.
> 
> ...


We never use the window in our oven either----No reason to.

I use wood ashes on wet paper towels when available, or Windex, or alcohol.

If I use Windex, I open the door all the way so none goes in the smoker. 

I can't remember ever cleaning the oven door, or trying to look through it, but I don't smoke meat in there.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 2, 2015)

DaveOmak said:


> My MES 30 works in the cold.... I have smoked at 5 deg. F... all you need to do is get a hair dryer.... You got one ????? and trick the sensor, inside the CC, to thinking it is warm outside...


My MES40 works below 0°, but I don't work so good below 20°.

Maybe Mrs Bear should keep the MES and get rid of me???

LOL----I guess after 46 years, that aint gonna happen.

Bear


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## susieqz (Jan 2, 2015)

dave, that other smoker you mentioned? i'll save up n spend the thousand to get a smoker like that,  that works without hair driers, charcoal, new controlers, evil customer service  or anything else. i'll load pellets or chips n press a button.

that's my idea of fun smoking.


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## joopster (Jan 2, 2015)

susie - just send me your address and 100 a month and I will send you some good bbq and you won't have to spend any of your time or effort!


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## daricksta (Jan 2, 2015)

susieqz said:


> i think lady is right. men love to tinker. the majority of members seem to have MBs, they love them, but spend all their time modifying them.
> 
> i'm not a mechanic n actually hate trying to fix or modify things.
> 
> ...


You go with what you think will work best for you. I and others here were under the impression that you had limited funds to spendI chose the MES 30 Gen 1 because it was the best smoker for my limited budget, which is exactly how it was designed and marketed. I still think you should disregard all the guys who like or feel they have to modify it to make it work "better". A lot of guys like to work on cars, does that mean if you buy a new car you'd have to be out in the garage tinkering with it all the time to make it run "better"?

As for as a CookShack, if you've got the bucks they make a great smoker at different price points, all above what you can get Masterbuilts for; CS smokers start at $675. Old Sarge got a great deal on a new but slightly dented model and loves his Amerique (retail $1,875.00) to pieces. But CookShacks are made in the USA and priced accordingly. Heck, if I cook afford one I'd have bought one, too. But Masterbuilts were built for people like me--home smokers on a tight budget--and I feel I got more than what I paid for.

Again, I'm not saying that a MES is the only way to go, many people like Smokin-It and SmokinTex. I believe that either some or all of them, like Masterbuilt, are made in China, which is the only way to keep them cheaper than a CookShack. It all depends on what your needs are and how much you're willing and able to spend to meet them.


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## ladygt (Jan 2, 2015)

susieqz said:


> dave, that other smoker you mentioned? i'll save up n spend the thousand to get a smoker like that,  that works without hair driers, charcoal, new controlers, evil customer service  or anything else. i'll load pellets or chips n press a button.
> 
> that's my idea of fun smoking.


Smart lady!!


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## susieqz (Jan 2, 2015)

well, i'm sure not able to spend now.  i spent $400 on the traerger.  now i spent a ton on accessories for general smoking.

i do apprieciate all the help n advice. i think hard  about everything you say.

right now tho, unless i can sell the traeger, i'll have to live with it for a couple of years before i get what i need.

admit it. it's fun hearing what everyone thinks about their smokers.

most people here either have MB or weber. those that do love them even with problems. i'm not sure what that means but it's pretty cool.


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## ladygt (Jan 2, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> I still think you should disregard all the guys who like or feel they have to modify it to make it work "better". A lot of guys like to work on cars, does that mean if you buy a new car you'd have to be out in the garage tinkering with it all the time to make it run "better"?


For some reason gearheads do. For example, many people buy brand new off the lot Ford Mustangs or other well known muscle cars and, as soon as they can, modify it, with high performance parts.


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## WaterinHoleBrew (Jan 2, 2015)

susieqz said:


> thanks joops. i read the thread but don't understand. you build it yourself? what's the advantage? how much are parts? you mentioned $150. the MES30 is on sale for $129.



Where did ya find the MES for $129 ?  If ya don't mind me asking.


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## susieqz (Jan 2, 2015)

tractor supply has them on close out sale. if you want that price you need to move right now.


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## daricksta (Jan 3, 2015)

LadyGT said:


> For some reason gearheads do. For example, many people buy brand new off the lot Ford Mustangs or other well known muscle cars and, as soon as they can, modify it, with high performance parts.


You actually agreed with my point, LadyGT. I think that same "gearhead" mentality that enjoys adding mechanical steroids to muscle cars also enjoys increasing the muscle on an inexpensive, starter smoker, which is what a Masterbuilt is. And I've got no problem with people improving on the MB design if they choose to. But I don't want someone looking at the line of Masterbuilts to think that they'll be forced to spend time and money on mods to get it to work decently because that's not true at all.

I would love to see stats on how many people own and enjoy their MES--whatever generation they have--without any mods and how many have chosen to mod their MES  for what they feel is for better performance. Within the people who did the mods, I'd also like to know how many have technical backgrounds as electricians or mechanics, etc.

Someone who never smoked before but always wanted to can now get in on the action as either a hobby or as a new way of life, if they decide to really pursue it. The MES was never meant to be a ice cold weather smoker or a smoke ring producer or anything fancy because you can buy it for as low as $130. If you want a real cold weather smoker and you want to see smoke rings in your meat then you buy something a lot more expensive. I'm not aware of any SI or ST or CS smoker that's available for under $300.

I knew exactly what a MES was before I bought it and that's exactly why I bought it. No one is going to tell me that what I researched and purchased is a piece of junk as it came delivered from the factory. Mine works very well and because it works so well, and I've learned how to use it as it came from the factory, all the money I haven't spent on mods has been saved for spending on other things, smoking and non-smoking related.

We also don't have a decent BBQ place in town but with my MES and how much I've learned about smoking through using it, I don't need a BBQ place in my town because the Q I put on the table draws raves from family and friends. Why would I want to modify that?


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## gathumper (Jan 3, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You actually agreed with my point, LadyGT. I think that same "gearhead" mentality that enjoys adding mechanical steroids to muscle cars also enjoys increasing the muscle on an inexpensive, starter smoker, which is what a Masterbuilt is. And I've got no problem with people improving on the MB design if they choose to. But I don't want someone looking at the line of Masterbuilts to think that they'll be forced to spend time and money on mods to get it to work decently because that's not true at all.
> 
> I would love to see stats on how many people own and enjoy their MES--whatever generation they have--without any mods and how many have chosen to mod their MES  for what they feel is for better performance. Within the people who did the mods, I'd also like to know how many have technical backgrounds as electricians or mechanics, etc.
> 
> ...


Well said! There must be thousands of Masterbuilt smokers that were purchased at any number of big box (and small box) stores and online that are in use and providing great food and enjoyment to their owners. We won't hear anything from most of them. Granted there will be out of box failures and quality problems with some percentage of them as there are with any product where the price point has been pushed down, typically by manufacturing offshore.

And I also believe that in _most _cases, as the cost increases, features and quality can be _expected_ to improve.

That leaves us with the internet forums, and the people who are posting. We are not the average consumer or user of these products.

There are the "gear heads" to borrow the analogy used in this thread. They like to disect and modify, they get satisfaction from the process and take pride in what they can do to "improve". I'm one of those. I took a brand new motorcycle with less than five hundred miles on it and ripped off the carburetor that the engineers had designed and installed a carburetor from another manufacturer's 4-wheeler!

There are the internet savvy consumers who have had a problem with the product under discussion, and gather together to discuss said problems, some to find solutions and make corrections, others to vent about the product or warn other consumers.

And there are the satisfied customers of one product or another, sharing their experiences and in some cases trying to convince the reader that their product is the best.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that the internet postings about a given product may represent less than 5-10% of the owners!

So, I take everything I read with a good old grain of salt, understanding that everyone has an opinion and there is truth on both sides of any debate. I learn all I can from my research online and really appreciate the opinions and advice that are freely shared on the forums. For me, it makes a better buying decision, and a better experience with the products I purchase.

And finally, although I'm about 90% decided to spend the extra money for a Smokin-It, I still haven't ruled out spending about 1/3 of the cost of the SI and getting a 40" Masterbuilt, knowing I can probably expect good service out of the box, and if I have a problem within the warranty period they will probably make it right. And yes, since I'm a "gear head", I'm already thinking about taking a brand new smoker into my secret lab and taking it apart and making a few "modifications"!

hmmm... replace the controller with an Auber, rewire with better quality wire, I'd still have only $500 in a pretty sweet "hot rod" smoker! :)

or use it just like it came out of the box for years, making lot's of great jerky, snack sticks, etc.

Thankfully we are not all the same, different strokes for differnet folks, and there are options out there for everyone!


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## daricksta (Jan 3, 2015)

gathumper said:


> Well said! There must be thousands of Masterbuilt smokers that were purchased at any number of big box (and small box) stores and online that are in use and providing great food and enjoyment to their owners. We won't hear anything from most of them. Granted there will be out of box failures and quality problems with some percentage of them as there are with any product where the price point has been pushed down, typically by manufacturing offshore.
> 
> And I also believe that in _most _cases, as the cost increases, features and quality can be _expected_ to improve.
> 
> ...


This is a great comment. As part of my products research I read a lot of reviews and I feel I've gotten to the point where I can weed out the bogus negative reviews based on a number of different factors. I also base which positive reviews I go with based on the same factors. I'd say 99% of the time I make the correct decision as to which product to buy and then I post my own online product reviews.

I'm knowledgeable enough to know that an Auber PID controller could improve how the heating element works on my MES 30, and for that matter, buying a 1500 w heating element would also improve performance. However, I don't want to dismantle anything or drill holes in the smoker and fool around with replacing wiring because I don't feel confident enough to do all that and I don't like drilling holes in stuff where there were no holes before. Call me an un-gearhead but if and went electrical components need replacing on my MES, I'll get exact replacements from Masterbuilt which can be easily installed. It's like when I had a bathroom ceiling vent fan go bad. A friend advised I could replace it with a more powerful fan but I would have to enlarge the hole in my ceiling and make some other messy alterations, including possibly the wiring. I wound up putting a new but exact replacement of the fan in the ceiling because the space was already there so I had to do was connect it to the existing power outlet and it was ready to go. That's why I prefer to keep my MES as it came from the factory, including any replacement parts I made need to install.


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## tjohnson (Jan 3, 2015)

*You All have Great Points!*

*From a marketing point of view......*

*I read somewhere that a "Satisfied Customer" will tell 1 person of their positive experience and a "Dissatisfied Customer" will tell 10 people of their negative experience*

*Are these statistics true?*

*I really don't know, but generally speaking "Yes".*


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## old sarge (Jan 3, 2015)

Todd, I think it may be more like 20 complaints for every 1 positive.


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## daricksta (Jan 5, 2015)

Sarge, I've been taught the same stat at customer service training seminars. In fact, one trainer set the number at 50 negatives for every positive.


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## old sarge (Jan 5, 2015)

Rick,

That figures. When folks are happy, they are silent.  When unhappy, well, misery loves company.


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## cmayna (Jan 5, 2015)

old sarge said:


> Rick,
> 
> That figures. When folks are happy, they are silent.  When unhappy, well, misery loves company.


Not when they eat my smoked salmon, are they silent  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Thanks, just had to add my 1 cents worth.


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## old sarge (Jan 5, 2015)

Well the food always speaks for itself and the praise and compliments can be deafening!


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## daricksta (Jan 6, 2015)

My favorite (well, NOW, anyway) brother-in-law calls me the King of Ribs after eating the baby back ribs I smoked in my MES 30. I used a combo of apple and pecan wood pellets.


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## gr8dane777 (Jan 27, 2016)

Smesh said:


> The best thing I ever did was get the $59.99 cold smoker kit for my MES. I don't even use wood inside anymore even when hot smoking. I find that if I am hot smoking something like pork tenderloins at 225, the wood just burns up real fast and the smoke is too white. And running a cold smoke, even with ice is a pain burning wood inside. I just use the cold smoker, load it up and let it burn a bit before hooking up the duct. That way, it has a chance to get a good smoke going that's not so white. The other day I lit up three briquettes in my gas BBQ and then chucked them in the tray at the bottom of the MES cold smoker and put the wood on top. I didn't even use the element. I got a nice blue smoke after about 15 minutes and it lasted several hours.
> 
> This way I can control the smoke the way I want, don't have to load wood so often and when hot smoking, I can just adjust the main unit to the desired temperature without putting any wood inside. Works great.


Exactly what I do, works great!


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