# Pork Shoulder for making sausage??? Decided on Butts help needed?



## bluebombersfan

What is the perfect meat/fat ratio for a pork butt for sausage making?  I have found a butcher that sells whole pork shoulders for a really good price and was wondering if they could be used in place of pork butts for sausage making?  they are full skin on shoulders so I thought they should have a good fat ratio in them.  I have always used butts but always just took a guess from what they looked like for fat content.


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## BGKYSmoker

BlueBombersfan said:


> What is the perfect meat/fat ratio for a pork butt for sausage making?  I have found a butcher that sells whole pork shoulders for a really good price and was wondering if they could be used in place of pork butts for sausage making?  they are full skin on shoulders so I thought they should have a good fat ratio in them.  I have always used butts but always just took a guess from what they looked like for fat content.




Yes they are good. Just cut the outer tuff skin off if its still there.


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## bluebombersfan

nepas said:


> BlueBombersfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the perfect meat/fat ratio for a pork butt for sausage making?  I have found a butcher that sells whole pork shoulders for a really good price and was wondering if they could be used in place of pork butts for sausage making?  they are full skin on shoulders so I thought they should have a good fat ratio in them.  I have always used butts but always just took a guess from what they looked like for fat content.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are good. Just cut the outer tuff skin off if its still there.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rick!!  What is the ideal fat content I should be using?


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## shoneyboy

*I bought a case of shoulders last year to make sausage with (butcher made me a deal I couldn’t refuse too), but to be honest, I wasn’t pleased with them. I’m not sure if I didn’t trim them correct or not, but I HATE to find cartilage in my sausage and it seemed like every piece that I bit into I found a piece….From my experience they are not anything like butts…..and I’m not going to waste my time or money on them again…..Again, I may have done something wrong with them.  They may be perfectly good for sausage…and maybe someone else may know what to do with them…..Good Luck SB*


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## bluebombersfan

Shoneyboy said:


> *I bought a case of shoulders last year to make sausage with (butcher made me a deal I couldn’t refuse too), but to be honest, I wasn’t pleased with them. I’m not sure if I didn’t trim them correct or not, but I HATE to find cartilage in my sausage and it seemed like every piece that I bit into I found a piece….From my experience they are not anything like butts…..and I’m not going to waste my time or money on them again…..Again, I may have done something wrong with them.  They may be perfectly good for sausage…and maybe someone else may know what to do with them…..Good Luck SB*


thanks for the heads up.  I have used them before for pulled pork and they turn out fantastic that's why I thought they may be good for sausage as well.  I agree with not being a fan of cartilage in my sausge though......


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## sausageboy

Deleted by SausageBoy!


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## venture

Like SausageBoy said it is a matter of preference.

Mostly I use the Butt end (Boston butt).  I usually find them to my liking for general sausage making depending on how they are cut and trimmed. Sometimes I add or subtract a little fat depending on how they are broken down. You will find a better meat to waste ratio on the butt than you will on the bottom of the shoulder which is often called the picnic here in the US.

Some here like 80/20.  I find that a little lean for my taste in some sausages.  I like 25 to 30% fat better for texture and flavor.  But that is a personal preference, and I realize that some have health considerations. Maybe I should have health considerations in mind too, but things like sausage and bacon have fat and salt by nature?  Possibly moderation is in order.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## sprky

I use what ever is on sale. I have used both Butts and Picnics. I could be wrong, but I believe the whole shoulder is both a butt and picnic together. Me personally the only difference I can see between them is the amount of fat, the butts tend to be more fatty. If it was me I would go for it and since you are grinding up both I feel you would have a good fat to meat ratio for sausage.


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## chef jimmyj

BlueBombersfan said:


> thanks for the heads up.  I have used them before for pulled pork and they turn out fantastic that's why I thought they may be good for sausage as well.  I agree with not being a fan of cartilage in my sausge though......


You are going to want to seperate the Muscles along the natural seams. You will then see Connective Tissue ( CT ) on and some times in the meat. As you get closer to the part closest to where the foot was the CT goes from Clear to Silver to Solid White/Yellow. The Clear and Thin Silver Skin CT can be ground with the Meat...BUT...The Dense Silver Skin and Solid White/Yellow CT, aka Tendon, should be removed and discarded. This is the stuff that ends up in Sausage that feels like biting into Cartilage. Since there is more of this type of CT in a Picnic/Shoulder than a Butt there is more Knife Work but because the Picnic/Shoulder is a more active muscle it has a little richer Flavor than a Butt...JJ


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## bluebombersfan

So here goes,  Being a little leary of using the shoulder for such a rookie butcher I decided to go with butts.  Last time I was at the butcher I noticed a sign up for "pork trim" for sausage making for a decent price so I thought I would try some of that too.  I ordered 30lbs of boneless butt and 10 pounds of the trim, when I ordered they told me they didn't have regular trim only lean for a few cents more.  I thought sure why not I would like to try it out.  Well my problem now is I am not sure if I have enough fat content for making sausage.  Here is a picture of the trim I bought after I cut out again what a rookie would deem not going into my sausage.  It went from 10 pounds to just under 8 so I think I got rid of too much good stuff.








Plus after posting the picture I notcied another spot of blood to get rid of.







Here is a pic of two of the four butts that went along with my order.  I guess i'm just not sure now if I will have enough fat as the butts only have this thin layer of fat on one side.  I do have some pork fat in the freezer that I could add but how does a guy know he has the right ratio?  I'm sure for most the pros its just a sinple look you go for but for a rookie like me does anyone have any advice?  Up until now I have always used pre ground or just used pork butt. 

Brian


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## sausageboy

Deleted by SausageBoy!


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## bluebombersfan

SausageBoy said:


> I think your concern is warranted.
> The pork trim looks quite lean and at a glance, the butts don't look especially fatty.
> You'll just have to dive in and get a feel for what's fatty enough and what's not.
> It's difficult to convey what's what as far as fat content goes over the web.
> Yes, the look plays an important part in determining what's right (it's a matter of personal preference)....after a little more experience you'll feel much more comfortable.


Thanks for the response!  My gut is that it will be a little lean and I think I will add the 1.25lb of fat that I have in the freezer to the whole mix and see how it goes.


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## tsulcoski

Pork Butts and shoulder are part of the whole Pork Shoulder. The Pork Butt will contain more fat and less veins and cartilage. The Pork butt moves less when the animal is alive, the less movement the more tender it will be.I prefer the pork butts because it is less work to clean them up. I also grind the leanest part of the pork butts through a coarser plate and the fatty pork though a finer plate, this gives a different texture to the sausage.


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## venture

As SausageBoy said, get your knife out and dive in.  Can't always tell from the outside what you will find on the inside.  With a little practice you will be doing it by eyeball before it is even ground!

Good luck and good smoking.


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## BGKYSmoker

BB

You should get a good boning knife, Cabelas, BPS, Gander and restaurant supply places have them. Keep it sharp to trim the blades and shanks, Always remember to wash the meat after deboning. I like 80/20 mix for sausage thats smoked. Anything fattier you will have smoked sausage fat.


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## hdflame

I just bought 2 Boston Butts a couple of weeks ago.  The butcher gave me a pack of fat trimmings for free.  One butt weighed about 8 pounds and one weighed about 9 pounds.  The fat that he gave me was about 7 pounds.  I used ALL of the fat with the 2 butts and the sausage came out just like I like it.  To me, it wasn't as fatty as what I buy in the store, but it had enough to have good texture and taste.  That was a little less than half again their weight in fat.

To me, if you don't put enough fat in it, it will just be too dry.

Once you get it ground up, add your seasonings and then make a couple of little patties and fry it up and taste it.  Compare it to what you're used to and like.  If you don't have enough seasonings or if it's dry, then add more seasoning and fat to it and try again.

Like everyone said, each time you'll get a better feel for what you like.  My problem was I didn't add enough fat the first couple times I made sausage.  You have to add more fat to sausage than you do to hamburger.  I was used to making burger, so I had to add more than I thought I needed!  Start out making small batches and keep some notes...then go from there.

Good luck!


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## bluebombersfan

Thanks for all the advice guys!!  I made a batch of breaky sausages that turned out AWESOME!!!


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## bluebombersfan

Here is a close up of the breakfast sausages I made!  they turned out to perfect!


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## pops6927

The last thing in the world I would ever do is preach about fat, but after 4 strokes there is valid concern for watching your fat input.  I have enjoyed many many years of eating sausages with 30% - 40% fat content and loved the *F*lavor *A*nd *T*exture, but now with carotids 70-90% clogged and ulcerated, shooting out clots, I have to modify my eating habits.  My oldest son, who is married to a double-masters-degree-Registered Nurse, and I, have made many sausages together with 90% - 95% lean; pork sausages, chicken sausages, turkey sausages, beef and beef/turkey sausages; from breakfast, Italians, polish, summer, etc., as well as skinless turkeys and chickens, extra lean boneless pork sirloin roasts, shoulder beef roasts devoid of all fat, etc.  It is a drier state of meat preparation and presentation.  But, it is expectation.  If you know your end product is going to be lean, you expect it.  In my case, you want it and actually revel in the leanness vs. the fattiness.  Is it dry?  Yes.  Absolutely.  Wonderfully so; you are offended if it was not.  Again, a matter of expectation.  You have to closer watch your temps so as not to overcook the product, however.  But, there is still great flavor to be had and satisfy having meat.


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## boykjo

Sausage looks great Blue.................... 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Joe


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## dnovotny

I AGREE WITH EVERYONE COMMENT .. BUTTS AND SHOULDER..YOU GOT TO LOOK AT BEFORE BUYING AND SEE AMOUNT OF FAT IT HAS.. ANOTHER TRICK I FOUND IS ADD BACON TO GIVE A BETTER TASTE TO BREASKFAST SAUSAGE, SUMMER SAUSAGE ECT.. WITH VENSON MOST PEOPLE GO WITH A 80-20 MIX BUT SOMETIME 75-25 WORKS AND TASTE BETTER - REMEMBER THE FAT IS WHERE  THE FLAVOR IS..GOOD  JOB .. THE MORE YOU DO THE BETTER  YOU WILL GET ..BEST PART ABOUT MAKING SAUSAGE IS ADD DIFFERENT SEASONINGS ,  EATING AND SHARING  WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY...


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## smokinhusker

Great looking sausage! I made a couple pounds of elk/pork breakfast sausage and the fact that elk is quite lean, the sausage came out with a denser texture, but definitely had the breakfast sausage taste. I am definitely going to be making it again. We expected a leaner/denser sausage and that's what we got...no surprises!


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## hdflame

Sausages look great.


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## jimmyh

I think that everything said here is bang on. I usually shoot for an 80/20 mix but that can be a little lean for some people. I would not shy away from using those complete shoulders, especially if you are getting them at a good price. If you are careful when you skin them there shouldn't be a whole lot of fat loss and you should be able to keep it somewhat close to 20% fat.

I suspect that the whole shoulders you are getting might be from "cull" hogs, ie pigs that are at the tail end of a batch and need to leave the barn to make room for the new batch coming in. Maple Leaf in Brandon doesn't want to see anything that isn't in a very specific weight range. These pigs end up going to small butchers who aren't as picky about the size parameters. They also tend to be a little leaner than a fully finished market hog and thus you get less fat on them. About ten years ago I worked at a medium sized hog plant and did nothing but bone hog shoulders for two weeks. I might have quit the job after two weeks but I think the motions are still locked in my head. Maybe I should come out and show you how to get the bones out of those shoulders!

By the way, are you willing/able to share where you sourced those shoulders and how good the deal was? I am looking to make some farmer's sausage over spring break and still ahven't found any meat. Pork shoulders are ideal.


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## bluebombersfan

jimmyh said:


> I think that everything said here is bang on. I usually shoot for an 80/20 mix but that can be a little lean for some people. I would not shy away from using those complete shoulders, especially if you are getting them at a good price. If you are careful when you skin them there shouldn't be a whole lot of fat loss and you should be able to keep it somewhat close to 20% fat.
> 
> I suspect that the whole shoulders you are getting might be from "cull" hogs, ie pigs that are at the tail end of a batch and need to leave the barn to make room for the new batch coming in. Maple Leaf in Brandon doesn't want to see anything that isn't in a very specific weight range. These pigs end up going to small butchers who aren't as picky about the size parameters. They also tend to be a little leaner than a fully finished market hog and thus you get less fat on them. About ten years ago I worked at a medium sized hog plant and did nothing but bone hog shoulders for two weeks. I might have quit the job after two weeks but I think the motions are still locked in my head. Maybe I should come out and show you how to get the bones out of those shoulders!
> 
> By the way, are you willing/able to share where you sourced those shoulders and how good the deal was? I am looking to make some farmer's sausage over spring break and still ahven't found any meat. Pork shoulders are ideal.


PM sent!


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## atcnick

Butt and shoulder is really the same thing.  Pork butt is the top end of the shoulder, picnic is the lower portion


-Nick


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## atcnick

The rear of the pig is not the butt.  That's the ham, shank and hock.  Or hind quarter


-Nick


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## saltysteele

we pretty much use a 70/30 mix for all sausages, and it comes out great.  you can get a pretty good idea of the fat content of a butt by looking at the outside.  pork has less intermuscular fat, and more intramuscular.  most of the fat is going to be visible.

if you're not using a binder or a method of bringing out the proteins to bind it, you need a decent amount of fat to hold the sausage together for free forms.

also, my theory on fat- before you pull out of the flavor, moisture and all the goodness from your meat, you'd do better for yourself to cut out all the simple carbs, processed foods.  your simple sugars/carbs dump into your blood at a rate of 30 units per minute, whereas in addition to satiating you (something carbs don't do), fats and proteins can only be transferred to your blood at a rate of 2 units per minute.  what does that mean?  your cells and liver get slammed full of sugar immediately, the rest gets turned to fat, your sugar drops and you still have a high level of insulin in your blood, and guess what?  you're hungry again.  you eat less carbs and more fats and proteins, your body can only process it into the sugar your blood can take so quickly, trickling in, giving you a steady, constant sugar level, not overfilling your cells and then your liver, thusly not putting 75% of the food into your fat stores  :)  this has been over simplified and drama added to emphasize my points, but my main point - before you take out all the good stuff out of your meat, cut down on the pastas, potatoes (chips, fries, mashed, baked, whatever), processed rices, breads, etc. don't cut them all out, but make the main portion of your meal meat/proteins/fats, and you'll get full quicker, stay full longer and feel better!  :)  (took me 40 years to figure this out, but i've lost 60 pounds in the last 6 months, because of it)  :)


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## hdflame

Saltysteele said:


> we pretty much use a 70/30 mix for all sausages, and it comes out great.  you can get a pretty good idea of the fat content of a butt by looking at the outside.  pork has less intermuscular fat, and more intramuscular.  most of the fat is going to be visible.
> 
> if you're not using a binder or a method of bringing out the proteins to bind it, you need a decent amount of fat to hold the sausage together for free forms.
> 
> also, my theory on fat- before you pull out of the flavor, moisture and all the goodness from your meat, you'd do better for yourself to cut out all the simple carbs, processed foods.  your simple sugars/carbs dump into your blood at a rate of 30 units per minute, whereas in addition to satiating you (something carbs don't do), fats and proteins can only be transferred to your blood at a rate of 2 units per minute.  what does that mean?  your cells and liver get slammed full of sugar immediately, the rest gets turned to fat, your sugar drops and you still have a high level of insulin in your blood, and guess what?  you're hungry again.  you eat less carbs and more fats and proteins, your body can only process it into the sugar your blood can take so quickly, trickling in, giving you a steady, constant sugar level, not overfilling your cells and then your liver, thusly not putting 75% of the food into your fat stores  :)  this has been over simplified and drama added to emphasize my points, but my main point - before you take out all the good stuff out of your meat, cut down on the pastas, potatoes (chips, fries, mashed, baked, whatever), processed rices, breads, etc. don't cut them all out, but make the main portion of your meal meat/proteins/fats, and you'll get full quicker, stay full longer and feel better!  :)  (took me 40 years to figure this out, but i've lost 60 pounds in the last 6 months, because of it)  :)


Sounds like you're doing a low carb diet.  I lost about 30 pounds doing low carb a few years back.  I felt better and had a lower blood pressure and lower bad cholesteral.  I also enjoyed my meat!  I am a carnivore afterall.  Would you share your diet?  I really need to go back on it.


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## weisswurst

I agree with the 80/20 ratio when it is possble to figure. many times its not.Also what you are making is a consideration.Smoking or not smoking? I am with those that said be sure to remove " tough fat " / tendons etc.If you prefer a little more fat it will help if you cut the meat , fat and lean into app. 1 inch chunks and freeze it until it is stiff but not solid. smoked kielbasa and lightly smoked  knockwurst made with coarse ground butts are 2 of my favorite sausages. Happy smoking  weisswurst


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## johnnyjulip

I agree with using the bigger plates for clean cuts and smallest for fat and less desirable cuts. I've tried it grinding all coarse and all fine, and was unhappy with both. I run the fat and tougher cut through the coarse first, then again through the fine. Another thing I do that I haven't seen commented on before is making a broth from the bones and connective tissue that makes a gelatinous goo I call liquid bone. I add this back to the meat after it cools instead of adding water. I add bay leaf to the bones while they're cooking and when it's done but before I cool it I add all of my seasonings. This makes it easier to mix the next day.


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## reinhard

We all have a personal preferance not only in fat/lean content but also in the type of sausage we make. Reading Pop's post, is the reason i make my own sausage. I know what i'm eating, and health concerns play a part in this as he states very well.  Pork butts are good enough for most of my sausage. Not all butts are created equal LOL. When you buy them you can see how much of a fat cap they have and take a good look at the rest of the butt for the "marbeling" and fat in the meat that you can see. When i buy butts i mark some for pulled and some for sausage before i freeze them [when buying larger amounts on sale].

Around here i can buy leaner types of pork cuts for a good price should i need them. The two i generaly get are boneless sirloin and cushion meat. If extra fat is needed try asking your butcher for boneless picnic trim. It usualy is in a 50/50 lean/fat ratio. Used to use it a lot when i proccessed venison sausage. One thing i have done over the years when trying a new sausage is starting off with smaller batches before making bigger versions. Just keep notes of what you put in. You can always tweak it later with more or less spices and of course lean/fat content. Reinhard


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## benizenson

i know this is gonna be a shocker, but use a scale.  by weight it's between 7:3 and 3:1 meat:fat


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## Stewdo

bluebombersfan said:


> What is the perfect meat/fat ratio for a pork butt for sausage making?  I have found a butcher that sells whole pork shoulders for a really good price and was wondering if they could be used in place of pork butts for sausage making?  they are full skin on shoulders so I thought they should have a good fat ratio in them.  I have always used butts but always just took a guess from what they looked like for fat content.


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## Stewdo

It’s the same cut of meat. Boston butt is a cut from the shoulder. Trim the outer skin and trim  as you like.If you find any of the small grayish looking glands,discard.


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## piker

I have only used pork shoulders for sausage making in the last fifteen years with no problems and great sausage. I am talking about 200 pork picnics. The only waste is the skin and bone.


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