# Fan in Offset Smoker?



## toekneemac

Has anyone ever placed a small fan in their smoking chamber opposite the fire box?  To create more of a convection type smoker?  Sine we smoke at low temps maybe the fan can handle it?  It would not be like a stoker/BBQ Guru, just more of a way to move the heat & smoke around, possible causing a better heat equality?  Has that been done?  Has anyone done something like this?  Or am I drifting too far away from traditional/authentic BBQ?  lol


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## ecto1

I would have to see how you would mount it.  I would think a fan on the opposite side of the fire box would push the heat ans smoke back towards the fire.  Maybe someone else has an opinion?


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## toekneemac

ECTO1 said:


> I would have to see how you would mount it.  I would think a fan on the opposite side of the fire box would push the heat ans smoke back towards the fire.  Maybe someone else has an opinion?


I was thinking of reversing it, or turning it around.  The IDEA is to pull the heat and smoke _from_  the fire box down to the far end and hopefully just circulate the heat & smoke causing, again, intheory, heat equality.


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## shoneyboy

I have seen them used on the fire box side to create a induced draft.....Kind of like a heater in a home......


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## alelover

I would think that it would need to be put on the exhaust to create a better air draw through the smoker. Sometimes you get heat spikes when adding wood and such. It would have to be able to handle higher heat than you think. A fan out of an actual oven could handle it but not a regular garden variety like a computer fan or something like that. Just my opinion. I didn't do any math or anything.


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## chef jimmyj

I looked into doing this...Small Computer type fans are only good to 175*F. I could not find a non-industrial fan that was low CFM and can handle the heat...JJ


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## SmokinAl

A guru fan will take the heat, but I think the smallest one they make is 5 cfm, which I think is more than you are looking for. Unless you connect it to a rheostat so you could turn it down & have it run real slow.


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## toekneemac

Awaiting my moderated initial reply.  And yes, a computer fan was in my reply.

That aside,  do you guys think that a fan, opposite the fire box, would help in heat equality, and possibly a better smoke?


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## alelover

Do you mean between the firebox and the smoke chamber? I'm having trouble visualizing.


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## toekneemac

alelover said:


> Do you mean between the firebox and the smoke chamber? I'm having trouble visualizing.


No, at the farthest end of the smoke chamber, farthest from the fire box.  See, my issue was there was too much heat in the smoke chamber closest to the fire box, and not enough heat at the end farthest from the fire box.  I thought if I could draw some heat down with a fan, it would equalize the temp inside the smoke chamber.  It would be positioned at the end at the level of the tuning plates.  The point of the tuning plates is to funnel heat & smoke down to the farthest end of the smoking chamber.  That only worked so well, I thought a fan would make it better.


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## alelover

Sounds like your tuning plates need some tuning. You should be able to get even temps with just the plates. Are you running the exhaust wide open and using the intake only for temp control? Do you have some pics of your set up we can see?


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## toekneemac

alelover said:


> Sounds like your tuning plates need some tuning. You should be able to get even temps with just the plates. Are you running the exhaust wide open and using the intake only for temp control? Do you have some pics of your set up we can see?


Sure, I may need some tuning plate tuning.  Someone already mentioned to me that I should remove one of them.  Yes, exhaust is wide open and intake only for temp control.  The tuning plates are porcelain tile.  Also, I did manage to decrease the inequality a bit by raising up my the level where the tuning plates are, allowing more heat into the chamber instead of wasted radiant heat off the fire box, but am looking to make it better.  I am about 25 degrees off.


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## sprky

I think I have pictured what you have in mind. I don't think its going to help you much if at all. now If you drew air from towards the top and returned it lower like at grate level it would circulate the air. Now with that said I don't know where you are going to find a small fan that can with stand the heat. You are going to want a fan that is rated to at least 400, in my opinion.  Convection ovens have the motor mounted out side just the fan blades in the heat. Just some food for thought here.


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## chef jimmyj

SmokinAl said:


> A guru fan will take the heat, but I think the smallest one they make is 5 cfm, which I think is more than you are looking for. Unless you connect it to a rheostat so you could turn it down & have it run real slow.


I don't think this is made to go entirely into the smoke box, only blow fresh air at the Fire to stoke it...JJ


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## toekneemac

sprky said:


> I think I have pictured what you have in mind. I don't think its going to help you much if at all. *now If you drew air from towards the top and returned it lower like at grate level it would circulate the air.* Now with that said I don't know where you are going to find a small fan that can with stand the heat. You are going to want a fan that is rated to at least 400, in my opinion.  Convection ovens have the motor mounted out side just the fan blades in the heat. Just some food for thought here.




The point wasen't neccessarily to circulate the air, just to draw some heat down to where it was needed.  I thought simple air movement, as a side note, may/could help.  But the main goal was near perfect heat equality.  And the fan?  Just a thought.  It could even be mounted on the outside of the chamber drawing air in a drilled hole.  Just like a BBQ Guru, but working the opposite way.


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## the fng

Joined this forum just to put in my two cents. I had seen these fans called A thermo-electric ECOFANS on a Lee Valley Tools catalog that I get, and I think it might be just what you are looking for. They run from $95 to $159 with them but maybe you can find it cheaper? On youtube there is a video on a nice one being used. They create their own electricity from a heat source they are placed on like a wood burning stove. Just something to add to the conversation i guess.


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## berninga87

This is an interesting Idea. I can see a few different possibilities depending where it's mounted. If it's at the end of the exhaust, all I think it will do is just force more air flow throughout and probably stoke your fire and drive temps up. If you mounted it underneath the tuning plates about half way through the smoke chamber, it would definitely pull more air from the firebox, but it will be very very hot air, and most likely burn up a fan not designed for high heat. Either way it's all a matter of air flow. The inside of a working smoker also is an environment on its own and the flow from intake to exhaust in my opinion is important especially for flavor. If there is fast moving air in the smoke chamber It may now allow smoke to flavor properly.

Also I was wondering about the tuning plates, I just have one, more of a deflector shield really in my SNP. It's made of sheet metal and is about 16 inches long and I just curved it enough to cover the intake. I have a water pan I put directly above it on the grate too to help keep a little cooler on that end. I was going to post a picture but cant find it at the moment, It's in this thread http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/111377/hello-from-wi. Anyways it works great, I can hold within 10-15 degrees from end to end. I dont really know how the ceramic behaves in a hot environment, but I think maybe its possible that it is getting hot and radiating heat upward which could be causing your difficulty. Before you get too in depth with the fan I would really experiment with a few variations on the tuning plates and see if that helps first. 

Have fun!


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## toekneemac

Now this is interesting.  I'll check it out.  thanks


The FNG said:


> Joined this forum just to put in my two cents. I had seen these fans called A thermo-electric ECOFANS on a Lee Valley Tools catalog that I get, and I think it might be just what you are looking for. They run from $95 to $159 with them but maybe you can find it cheaper? On youtube there is a video on a nice one being used. They create their own electricity from a heat source they are placed on like a wood burning stove. Just something to add to the conversation i guess.


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## toekneemac

Berninga87,  thanks for the input.  First, the fan I was looking for was a slow mover, just enough to pull hot air to the far end of the smoker.  2)  I heard that ceramic was an insulator.  If so, wouldn't it prevent radiant heat and just guide the flow of hot air?  3)  I removed all tuning plate mod except for the baffle, but it is not really doing much.  Everything worked great.  Now, I am in trouble if I want to load up every square inch of the smoker, as the temps are different.  I am going to raise my tuning plate level and just use a 16 in X 24in sheet metal as a tuning plate.  My problem was that I wasn't allowing enough hot air into the smoke chamber.  It just wasn't going into the chamber.  4)  My dial thermometers mounted in the smoker door are not accurate in their present location. (grate level about 4 in's from either end) So, I disregard them and stick with the internal, digital thermometers.  I would recomend to everybody to either disregard theirs or only use them as a reference.  5)  The way I had things set up before, I think a fan would have been the best method to achieve equality.  Under my soon to be set up, a fan isn't neccessary.  The old time hilljacks didn't need one, and neither do I!  LOL
 


berninga87 said:


> This is an interesting Idea. I can see a few different possibilities depending where it's mounted. If it's at the end of the exhaust, all I think it will do is just force more air flow throughout and probably stoke your fire and drive temps up. If you mounted it underneath the tuning plates about half way through the smoke chamber, it would definitely pull more air from the firebox, but it will be very very hot air, and most likely burn up a fan not designed for high heat. Either way it's all a matter of air flow. The inside of a working smoker also is an environment on its own and the flow from intake to exhaust in my opinion is important especially for flavor. If there is fast moving air in the smoke chamber It may now allow smoke to flavor properly.
> 
> Also I was wondering about the tuning plates, I just have one, more of a deflector shield really in my SNP. It's made of sheet metal and is about 16 inches long and I just curved it enough to cover the intake. I have a water pan I put directly above it on the grate too to help keep a little cooler on that end. I was going to post a picture but cant find it at the moment, It's in this thread http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/111377/hello-from-wi. Anyways it works great, I can hold within 10-15 degrees from end to end. I dont really know how the ceramic behaves in a hot environment, but I think maybe its possible that it is getting hot and radiating heat upward which could be causing your difficulty. Before you get too in depth with the fan I would really experiment with a few variations on the tuning plates and see if that helps first.
> 
> Have fun!


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## chef jimmyj

I think the fan is an interesting idea after all everytime people replace an old oven or upgrade their kitchen a Convection Oven is on the top of the list...The idea is to even out the Oven temps and cause a faster heat exchange with the food.The same may hold true for a Smoker...As far as Smoke flavor, I'm not sure what difference there will be. Without a fan random particulate smoke attaches to the meat, with a fan more particles are moving around and can bump into and attach to the meat unless the fan is positioned to blow the smoke away from the meat...The problem I see with the Ecofan is the electricity is generated be a Heat Differencial between the very hot base sitting on the stove and the cooler top of the fan about 9" above the surface. I don't think there would be enough of a differencial in an enclosed space like a Smoker...Maybe it would work on top of the first baffle/tuning plate closest to the fire box...JJ


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## toekneemac

Right, a convection smoker. And remember, it does not have to be a high CFM fan either, just enough to move heat down a little. Plus, no modifications!  And, it would be more efficiant.  You can tune your heat down as the unit is equalized, instead of one hot area and one cooler area, and maybe even prolong your fuel source,  in theory.   Is there anything like on the market?


Chef JimmyJ said:


> I think the fan is an interesting idea after all everytime people replace an old oven or upgrade their kitchen a Convection Oven is on the top of the list...The idea is to even out the Oven temps and cause a faster heat exchange with the food.The same may hold true for a Smoker...As far as Smoke flavor, I'm not sure what difference there will be. Without a fan random particulate smoke attaches to the meat, with a fan more particles are moving around and can bump into and attach to the meat unless the fan is positioned to blow the smoke away from the meat...The problem I see with the Ecofan is the electricity is generated be a Heat Differencial between the very hot base sitting on the stove and the cooler top of the fan about 9" above the surface. I don't think there would be enough of a differencial in an enclosed space like a Smoker...Maybe it would work on top of the first baffle/tuning plate closest to the fire box...JJ


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## cliffcarter

Toekneemac said:


> Berninga87,  thanks for the input.  First, the fan I was looking for was a slow mover, just enough to pull hot air to the far end of the smoker.  2)  I heard that ceramic was an insulator.  If so, wouldn't it prevent radiant heat and just guide the flow of hot air?  3)  I removed all tuning plate mod except for the baffle, but it is not really doing much.  Everything worked great.  Now, I am in trouble if I want to load up every square inch of the smoker, as the temps are different.  I am going to raise my tuning plate level and just use a 16 in X 24in sheet metal as a tuning plate.  My problem was that I wasn't allowing enough hot air into the smoke chamber.  It just wasn't going into the chamber.  4)  My dial thermometers mounted in the smoker door are not accurate in their present location. (grate level about 4 in's from either end) So, I disregard them and stick with the internal, digital thermometers.  I would recomend to everybody to either disregard theirs or only use them as a reference.  5)  The way I had things set up before, I think a fan would have been the best method to achieve equality.  Under my soon to be set up, a fan isn't neccessary.  The old time hilljacks didn't need one, and neither do I!  LOL


I think berninga87 is on to something. The large ceramic pieces that you have will store and radiate heat, that's how pizza stones work. Ceramics have been used as electrical insulators and there are various spun ceramic insulations that can be used to insulate in a high heat environment, such as BBQ pits or the space shuttles. I think you should change the initial baffle to metal at the very least.

The other thing that I see is that you have extended the exhaust directly to the cooking grate, this is too low IMHO as it will keep the heat flowing under the cooking grates rather than across the top of them. It may be a good idea to take off that extension and extend the exhaust stack to improve the draw, if this helps you may not need your fan.


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## doctord1955

Find a long shafted motor and mount it on the exterior of smoker drilling a hole for the shafte and mount a fan blade in side ur smoker!

Use a piece of black stove pipe for s shroud.  Space it out from the wall using angle brackets!


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## toekneemac

cliffcarter said:


> I think berninga87 is on to something. The large ceramic pieces that you have will store and radiate heat, that's how pizza stones work. Ceramics have been used as electrical insulators and there are various spun ceramic insulations that can be used to insulate in a high heat environment, such as BBQ pits or the space shuttles. I think you should change the initial baffle to metal at the very least.
> 
> The other thing that I see is that you have extended the exhaust directly to the cooking grate,* this is too low IMHO *as it will keep the heat flowing under the cooking grates rather than across the top of them. It may be a good idea to take off that extension and extend the exhaust stack to improve the draw, if this helps you may not need your fan.


Wait, in all the websites where it shows what mods to do, they all say to do this.  But you disagree?


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## toekneemac

doctord1955 said:


> Find a long shafted motor and mount it on the exterior of smoker drilling a hole for the shafte and mount a fan blade in side ur smoker!
> 
> Use a piece of black stove pipe for s shroud.  Space it out from the wall using angle brackets!


I agree with this design.


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## doctord1955

Put a dimmer switch for a ceiling fan on it.  I have this design in my upright freezer conversion and for regular smoking barely run it enought to circulate air so no hot spots then when i want to dry for jerky or to dry casings turn fan up!


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## chef jimmyj

doctord1955 said:


> Put a dimmer switch for a ceiling fan on it.  I have this design in my upright freezer conversion and for regular smoking barely run it enought to circulate air so no hot spots then when i want to dry for jerky or to dry casings turn fan up!


I would like more info here...Do you have a make, model and source on your fan...JJ


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## doctord1955

Chef as far as make and model and source of fan i wish i could tell u but I cant find the info.  Found it at a used motor place online has a 7in long shaft as my smoker walls are 2 1/2 in thick it sets in the middle of my smoker right above my drip pans.  My drip pans are metal bent in to pans and they over lap each other -_- just like that.  Like i said i use it different for different types of smoking.  I think i paid $19 for it and $6shipping. Have a ceiling fan control on it.


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## daveomak

Toekneemac, morning... I'm a little late here so bear with me....  I have read most of what has been said and here is my opinion.... 

In this picture, the grate and ceramic tile are blocking air/heat flow to the cooking chamber.... Open up that passage for better flow.....

The use of tile... well, others have said it is an insulator... they are correct... change the tiles to some mild steel plates  






Cliff suggested raising the exhaust farther from the grate..... Cliff is correct... the extension you have put on the stack is blocking air

flow due to it's proximity to the grate....  If need be, cut a hole in the grate for improved air flow while keeping the stack at a lowered height in the smoker....

If those are drip pans in the smoker, they are blocking the heat radiating off of the tuning plates you have in the smoker... use smaller drip pans if necessary

and locate them under the meat only so they don't block the entire cooking surface....


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## alelover

Is your charcoal basket raised up or just sitting on the bottom of the firebox? It's hard to tell from the pic.


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## midi459

i believe the idea is to have a fan inside the smoke area for circulation.

not to pull or push air thru the box.

the object here to have uniform temprature thru the smoking area.

sounds like a great idea to me ...dont need diffuser plates

just kick the fan on

i would mount in the middle pointing up and create the spin effect

pushing the heat all around the smoke area and let the rest of the operation proceed as normal

no we are not pulling air in or out of the box  circullation only fan that can handle the smoke temps and greasy air

any ideas ?   convection smoking


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## dcarch

1. I have a muffin computer fan in the smoker that I am building. I don't plan to smoke higher than 170F. A few of these fans will fail around 150F.

2. You can use a shaded pole motor (not expensive) fan. It can take higher heat.

3. You can remote mount the fan blades inside the smoker, and the motor outside.

4. You can check eBay for high temperature motors.

5. I believe many commercial smoke houses use circulating fans to promote faster smoke penetration and even smoking.

6. Moving air over the fire box can create a furnace.

dcarch


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## daveomak

A properly designed offset smoker doesn't need a fan... Using two air inlets to the fire box, one for heat control and the other for air flow control to the cook chamber is satisfactory.....    Commercial smokers use fans to act like a convection oven, cooking the meat faster than stagnant air, and circulating the smoke to all sections of the smoker...  The commercial meat and sausage plant I worked at had smoking chambers 12X16X8'.... and they needed the air circulation for uniform cooking etc....  Dave


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## midi459

take a look at this

tell me what u all think

http://sayu.en.alibaba.com/product/718108085-0/long_shaft_motor.html

if it is mounted on the end as it is more of a flat area.

dont think theres much worry about a gummed up fan blade easy to clean


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## dcarch

midi459 said:


> take a look at this
> 
> tell me what u all think
> 
> http://sayu.en.alibaba.com/product/718108085-0/long_shaft_motor.html
> 
> if it is mounted on the end as it is more of a flat area.
> 
> dont think theres much worry about a gummed up fan blade easy to clean


Not sure about the power rating, one is 2 hp, and another is 25w.

Not sure about its RPM.

The voltage is 220V.

Also for high power motors, vertical motor bearings may not be OK for horizontal mounting.

I think a fan blade circulates air better than a squirrel cage blower and easier to clean.

dcarch


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## midi459

read there specs they do have 120 v models i may have posted some thing inadvertantly ..but they do have a verry interesting motor on a 5 inch shaft and a cage fan ..my info has it at 150 cfm


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## doctord1955

*Fasco Mfg. *made for Milton Roy Co.






Aquarium Pump Motor

HP - 1/22
RPM- 3000
Volts- 115 AC
Amps-2.2
Single Phase
Shaft Dual 1/4" Diameter x 4-3/4"Length 1" flatted end
Bearing- Sleeve
Mount 2 - 8/32" threaded stud on shaft side
Dimensions: 3-1/2" H x 3-1/2" W x 8-1/2" D
Wt. 3 lbs
Surplus Shelf Worn 
Qty Fasco Motor 71214113: $22.50 
Qty  Cord & Male Plug: $5.50 
this is the motor i have in my smoker !  It is mounted outside of smoker drilled a small hole through smoker and mounted fan blade!  installed a ceiling fan dimmer switch on it!  Mounted a 6" starter collar around blade spaced out from wall of smoker so it would draw air the push it around smoker!


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## midi459

ok i am game but where is it sold at??????? i cant find it . i keep getting shoved into grainger


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## doctord1955

electric trading co.

they r used motors ive had 1 in my frig conversion now for 3 yrs


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## dcarch

If you already have a fan blade, make sure you know which way the motor rotates, clockwise, counterclockwise.

It looks like the kind of induction motor which is not reversible.

dcarch


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## doctord1955

turn fan blade around if u get wrong rotation


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## daveomak

doctord1955 said:


> turn fan blade around if u get wrong rotation


.......
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






.......  Think about that for just a second or two.....


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## dcarch

DaveOmak said:


> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> .......  Think about that for just a second or two.....


Sounds like you have made that mistake once before. LOL!

With a simple shaded pole motor, you can actually easily turn the rotor around to change direction.

dcarch


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## doctord1955

Ive done it before!


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