# Night before or morning of?



## PamAndJim (Apr 13, 2018)

My wife surprised me with a new WSM last week and am going to be trying it out this weekend.  We have some people coming over around 6:00 Saturday and want to serve food around 6:30-7:00.  I have one 8.74 pound brisket and 2 pork shoulders that each weigh about 7.5 pounds.  I'm planning on smoking everything at 225 degrees.  I've smoked both types of meat before and comfortable doing so.  But, it's always been on my old propane Masterbilt smoker.  But, with this being the first smoke on the smoker, I'm torn on when to fire it up.  My options are:

- Start it at midnight tonight & foil/towel/cooler it until it's time to serve - In the past, this is probably they route I would've taken.  But, I am a little hesitant to do so since I'll be sleeping through the initial part of the cook.  This method would guarantee me that the food will be done in time.

- Wake up early and start it at 5:00am.  My only hesitation here would be having enough time for the meat to cook.  At 1 1/2 hour per pound (yes, I know this is only a guideline) it would take the brisket a little over 13 hours to cook.  This means, I'd pull it out of the smoker just in time to serve it...  IF everything goes as planned.  I've had briskets in the past that have taken up to 2 hours per pound to cook.  I don't want all of my friends standing around staring at me because the food's not ready yet.  

I'm leaning toward option 1.  What would yall do?


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## MeatiocreSmoker (Apr 13, 2018)

Don't forget the time that it will take to heat up. If you plan for the meat to go in at 5 then the smoker needs time to come to temp before that. Also, if it is new then you will need to season it too.


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## 73saint (Apr 13, 2018)

I tend to lean towards option 1.  Whenever I don't leave myself extra time, that always seems to be the time when my cook times end up extending beyond the "expectation for completion."  Take that and couple it up with it being your inaugural run, I'd go the safe route.


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## phathead69 (Apr 13, 2018)

Option 1 for me each time. Once time is gone can't get it back or make more. Dinner time is dinner time


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## kruizer (Apr 13, 2018)

If you have any uncertainty, you should choose option 1 as you are assured your guests will eat on time.


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## jaxgatorz (Apr 13, 2018)

option 1 here too... Too many variables... Good luck !!!  Post pics !


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## PamAndJim (Apr 13, 2018)

Thanks all.  When in doubt, the better safe than sorry option is always best.  I'll just stay up for a while after I put it on to make sure everything seems stable.


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## Geebs (Apr 13, 2018)

Given this is your first smoke on the WSM I would go with option 1, rather safe then sorry. The first few times I ran my WSM it took me more time then I thought to get started.


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## ravenclan (Apr 13, 2018)

Always option #1 for me. Just like some others have said once time is gone you can not get it back.


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## mneeley490 (Apr 13, 2018)

Yep, option 1. If you get done early, you can leave them wrapped in foil, and then wrapped in towels inside an empty cooler or ice chest. They will keep warm for hours.


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## Gwanger (Apr 13, 2018)

PamAndJim said:


> My wife surprised me with a new WSM last week and am going to be trying it out this weekend.  We have some people coming over around 6:00 Saturday and want to serve food around 6:30-7:00.  I have one 8.74 pound brisket and 2 pork shoulders that each weigh about 7.5 pounds.  I'm planning on smoking everything at 225 degrees.  I've smoked both types of meat before and comfortable doing so.  But, it's always been on my old propane Masterbilt smoker.  But, with this being the first smoke on the smoker, I'm torn on when to fire it up.  My options are:
> 
> - Start it at midnight tonight & foil/towel/cooler it until it's time to serve - In the past, this is probably they route I would've taken.  But, I am a little hesitant to do so since I'll be sleeping through the initial part of the cook.  This method would guarantee me that the food will be done in time.
> 
> ...


Since you have not used smoker b4 and charcoal burns out rather quickly, I would suggest starting the night b4 and put it in cooler when done and you will rest assured that dinner will be on time.That way they wont drink all your beer while waiting for dinner.Don"t forget minion method with charcoal and pre-season cooker nite b4.


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## dls1 (Apr 13, 2018)

Just another solid vote for option 1. A very long time ago, I tried a same day cook early in the morning with guests coming later that day similar to what you're doing and I ended up having pizzas delivered. That was the last time I did that.

Whenever I do "Big Meats" such as briskets or shoulders, I usually start around 11:00 PM in my smoker (Cookshack electric) set at 200F. At 7:00 AM, the IT is usually around 150F, and I turn the temp up to 225F. The meat is usually finished around 4:00 PM, and I then FTC it until dinner time, which is usually around 7:00 PM.  No anxiety involved.


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## SmokinAl (Apr 14, 2018)

I agree with the above, option 1!
Al


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## PamAndJim (Apr 14, 2018)

OK. I'm a little nervous now. I started it last night using the minion method. I put it on a little after midnight. I woke up and the smoker was a tad under 200 degrees.  The internal temp on the pork is about 145.  I added some more coals to get the temp up.  But, I'm concerned that it might not have made it out of the danger zone quickly enough to be safe to eat.  What should I do?


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## PamAndJim (Apr 14, 2018)

This was at 7:00am btw.


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## SmokinAl (Apr 14, 2018)

I'm assuming that you didn't inject either the butt or the brisket, if that is so, you are fine.
Just keep smoking them & enjoy your meal.
Al


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## PamAndJim (Apr 14, 2018)

I actually did inject them .


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## SmokinAl (Apr 14, 2018)

Well if it was me I'd probably just continue to cook them & not worry about it.
But just to be on the safe side I PM'd a couple of food safety guys (@daveomak & @chef jimmyj )
Hopefully one or the other will be on here shortly.
In the meantime just continue to smoke everything.
Al


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## PamAndJim (Apr 14, 2018)

SmokinAl said:


> Well if it was me I'd probably just continue to cook them & not worry about it.
> But just to be on the safe side I PM'd a couple of food safety guys (@daveomak & @chef jimmyj )
> Hopefully one or the other will be on here shortly.
> In the meantime just continue to smoke everything.
> Al



Will do. Thank you so much.  I'm seriously having a heart attack over here .


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## SmokinAl (Apr 14, 2018)

Sounds to me like the perfect opportunity to pop open a cold one & relax!
Al


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## SmokinAl (Apr 14, 2018)

Your looking at probably 6-7 hours cook time. 
If the IT got to 140 in 5-6 hours, your probably just fine, and I would guess that it did.
But let's wait & see what the experts have to say.
Al


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## daveomak (Apr 14, 2018)

Pam and Jim, morning....  Hindsight is 20-20...  More charcoal for a longer cook time would have been good..  We are done with that.....  
Now fort he technical stuff....  
Because the meat reached 145 IT, it was "probably" at that temp for a long time, or a higher temp...  That's very good...  

Articles about temperature and death of pathogens....  Read the 2 articles.....

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Turkey.pdf

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...a-turkey-food-safety-haccp-test-study.237911/


Thermal death times and temperatures....  of some pathogens....






The chart below shows 2 very important things....
1. At lower temperatures, than previously noted of by the USDA, pathogens will die....
2. At times, longer than previously noted by the USDA, additional pathogens will die.....
My thoughts on the above... The USDA did not want folks to think or didn't trust them to think...

From the HACCP Turkey study and the 2 charts presented.... When cooking, meats as described, at 130 ish, pathogens begin to die...  as the temperature rises, they die faster...   When an internal temperature is reached that begin to kill pathogens, the longer it is held at that temperature, more pathogens die...  Hold a temperature long enough at the correct temperature and it will be safe to eat...   That's NOT to say all pathogens will be dead....  ONLY to say the remaining amount of pathogens will be safe to consume by a healthy middle aged person...  Children and older folks, with health problems, do not fall in that category....
From what I can gather, ONLY moist meats can be heat treated....   dehydrating to a dry state has other effects on pathogens..  puts them in suspended animation of sorts where they can survive a very long time...  and rehydration at a suitable temperature for regrowth can make them active again...  Jerky is a prime example of pathogen regrowth after dehydration..








LOG reduction..... 
*How to measure Log reduction*
The reduction of pathogens is measured in Log – Logarithm.

“Log reduction stands for 10-fold (one decimal) or 90% reduction in numbers of live bacteria.”

At a 4 Log reduction, the number of pathogens is 10,000 times less.

5 Log reduction means the number of pathogens is reduced, times 100,000.

7 Log reduction means the number of pathogens is reduced, times 10,000,000

I know the above goes against what most have been taught....   I'm not here to debate the above...   If you want to keep you previous "food safety ideas" that's fine....   This is "food for thought"...   serious thinking....   
If you find yourself in a "pickle" when cooking stuff...  Keep the above in mind...  Holding meat for a longer time at a lower temp., makes it perfectly safe to eat...   and moist..


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## SmokinAl (Apr 14, 2018)

Thanks Dave!
Al


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## dls1 (Apr 14, 2018)

PamAndJim said:


> OK. I'm a little nervous now. I started it last night using the minion method. I put it on a little after midnight. I woke up and the smoker was a tad under 200 degrees.  The internal temp on the pork is about 145.  I added some more coals to get the temp up.  But, I'm concerned that it might not have made it out of the danger zone quickly enough to be safe to eat.  What should I do?



I wouldn't be too concerned if I were you. You're results of your experience overnight corresponds pretty closely with what I mentioned in an earlier post (#12) which was *"I usually start around 11:00 PM in my smoker (Cookshack electric) set at 200F. At 7:00 AM, the IT is usually around 150F, and I turn the temp up to 225F."
*
You'll be fine.


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## PamAndJim (Apr 14, 2018)

dls1 said:


> I wouldn't be too concerned if I were you. You're results of your experience overnight corresponds pretty closely with what I mentioned in an earlier post (#12) which was *"I usually start around 11:00 PM in my smoker (Cookshack electric) set at 200F. At 7:00 AM, the IT is usually around 150F, and I turn the temp up to 225F."
> 
> Yes.  I re-read your post and realized that I did exactly as you described, even if by accident.
> 
> ...


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## noboundaries (Apr 14, 2018)

This has been a fun read. Since it is 3:30 PM as I type, and 76% of the US population lives east of the Mississippi, there's a good chance they are sitting down to eat while my words appear on my screen.

Personally, I absolutely despise timing a long cook to finish at a specific time. I can do it, but just don't like to. That's a HUGE reason why I'll never get into competition.

I'd rather give myself a ton of time and finish early, storing the meat properly then serve it relaxed and happy.


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## PamAndJim (Apr 15, 2018)

Well, I plowed ahead and finished the smoke. It turned out great and everyone loved it.  Thank you all for your help.






2018-04-15_11-01-56 by loudfocus2, on Flickr


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 15, 2018)

Late to the party but Dave MORE than covered it. Great work Dave...JJ


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