# MES - Need More Smoke



## wetumpka (Jan 21, 2010)

I purchased a new MES on black Friday, upgraded from an ECB.  I smoked a butt at Christmas, not much smoke flavor.  The wood tray got loaded with black chips (looked like charcoal) no ash.  Since then I have tried a few things to get it to smoke more.  I've tried the following:

Checked that wood tray was installed correctly (heat shield under element)
Higher temp 250 deg
Soaking chips
Less chips per load
Vent 100% open
Called Masterbuilt, they suggested running the temp to 275.  (Defeats the purpose of low and slow) but I tried that too, no luck

None of these worked, the remnants of the chips reminded me distilled wood experiment from high school science class.  That made me think that the wood box is not getting enough oxygen to smolder or burn the chips.  I rigged up my air compressor to add a slight flow of air into the chip loaded for me next test.  It worked, the chips smoked great and burned to ash.

With this info I thought about drilling out the holes on the left of the wood tray and on the chip loader.

Anyone have hear of a similar issue and know how it was remedied?


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## ronp (Jan 21, 2010)

I have bolded the ones in question. I would not drill out anything, it should work as it is.

I would call them again and get someone different, something is wrong. I can smoke @ 225' and get good results. You need to use wood chips or chunks.

You may have a temp problem or a control box issue. Your wood should be a white ash after somoking.


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## hp409ss (Jan 21, 2010)

I haven't had any issues with mine. I have done chips dry and wet and as of late i have been using Traeger Pellets which are working great.


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## rambler (Jan 21, 2010)

I have no problems with getting good smoke at low temperatures.  I guess with the chip tray loaded right on the element I question the wood chips.  Have you tried different chips?  I never soak mine with water and feel that I can control it well with the ability to load chips without having to open the door.  I especially like the ability to decide when to start the smoking by not adding chips for the first few hours so I do not get into a creosote issues.  I guess another thing you could try is to buy smoking saw dust instead of chips.
On another note.... interesting handle there, is that anything wetumka, ok?


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## marty catka (Jan 21, 2010)

I've had the same issue with mine. In warmer ambient temps I felt like I was performing the same experiment.  I fashioned a makeshift chip tray out of aluminum flashing and set it so it lays on the shelf above the element, taking out that small air space.  Smoked good then.  However, in low ambient temps, I had chips that were in the loading chute to warm smoke and turn to ash.  So I guess it depends on how long the element needs to stay on to maintain temps.  My two cents worth.


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## scubadoo97 (Jan 21, 2010)

The only time I've had chips not burn to ash is when trying to smoke at low temps like 160-170.  I'm assuming this is the older style MES if bought on Black Friday.  I never soak wood and have great luck with chips, pellets and split chunks.


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## marknb (Jan 21, 2010)

What Ron said.  Must me something wrong.  My Centro (MES in disguise) has never failed at temps higher than 170F, I bought a Smoke Daddy CSG for smoking sausage at less than 150F.


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## jsdspif (Jan 21, 2010)

I have that problem with mine , usually not enough smoke flavor for me . On mine even at 250 , once it is up to temp and the element isn't turning on for very long , my chips don't smoke . I've noticed like yours , if I have chips in the loading tube , alot of times 30 minutes later and I go to dump the loader onto the chip pan , the chips in the tube have turned partially to ash while the chips on the pan are just charred . Sometimes I take out the loader tube and if I have enough of a breeze that will help get the chips on the pan smoldering again then I put the tube back in . I run the top vent wide open . I think I'm going to drill out the vent holes in my loader tube . I have the 30" and it's about 2 years old. Most of the time I end up with black wood chips on the pan . The only time I usually end up with white ash is when I'm running it at 275.


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## auggie1969 (Jan 21, 2010)

I've had an older model MES for about 5 years now.  I had the same problem.  Sometime i would get great smoke (higher temp) and sometimes I would have to fight uit the whole time.  I finally gave up and bought a Smoke Pistol.  Now this thing rocks.  I can cold smoke now to.  Just my 2 cents.  Maybe the newer versions work better than the older ones.  I am currently building a new homemade smoker out of an old refrigerator.  I just need  something bigger.


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## mgwerks (Jan 21, 2010)

I'm suspicious of the "black wood chips".  I'd try some true chips cut from wood, which are usually some shade of brown.  Use chips or little chunks, not sawdust or shavings, and put maybe 1 charcoal briquette in there tio keep them lit if your element cycles off.  

Soaking the wood in advance is unhelpful.


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## reeko (Jan 21, 2010)

By Black Wood Chips, I think he meant that the chips do not burn completely. Similar to making charcoal by heating wood in with little air.


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## scubadoo97 (Jan 21, 2010)

jsdspif, that's just weird.  The chip loader being further away from the heat source burning chips faster and more complete than in the chip pan is just off the wall.  Wish I could give you an explanation


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## jsdspif (Jan 21, 2010)

yeah , by black wood chips I mean in the chip pan they are warming enough to char and give off some smoke , but they are not being totally burned to the point of turning to white ash . I think the ones I put in the loading tube to "warm" are getting a good supply of oxygen , but not enough oxygen is getting to the chips in the chip pan . I know that there is a fine line , I don't want the chips in the pan to ignite to the point of flaming , but I think I do need to get a little more air to them for a more complete burn . That is probably about "clear as mud "


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## wetumpka (Jan 22, 2010)

mgworks, I am using purchased wood chips.  I have tried maple chips, apple chips, and pecan sticks from my yard, all with the same results.  The "black chips" is the result after the chips have been in the smoker box for a while.

This is the new style MES, from what I read on the web they choked the incoming air flow down to resolve the backdraft issue when opening the door.

I've checked the temp with my meat thermo, temp seems to be fairly accurate.

Tried one more thing today, started chips burning with a torch before loading, same result.

Rambler, my handle is Wetumpka, AL small town outside Montgomery, AL where I live.


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## rambler (Jan 22, 2010)

Wetumpka I am from Ks. but thought the similarity was close.  Not many towns by a name like that.


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## wetumpka (Jan 22, 2010)

Rambler, I'm sure it's somehow related to the indians that were settled in each area.  The city in AL is named for the indian words for water and rambling, the city is on a small river with a little whitewater.

I attached some pictures from my trials tonight.  This is two loads of wood, the 1st some small pecan sticks cutup from my yard and some purchased maple chips.  The pecan sticks were in for over 2.5 hrs at 250 deg and the maple chips over 1.5 hrs.

Notice, not a hint of ash, the maple chips aren't even 100% black.  I also too a picture of the wood tray installed.  It's in the only way I can see to install it, but someone might see something I'm missing.  The heat shield is under the element.


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## tjw in kans (Jan 22, 2010)

i have read through this post several times, not experiencing any of the problems mentioned, so i paid close attention today when using my 2 year old 30 inch model, i initially add a small handfull of chips into the tray before closing the door,  if i remember, directions said to empty chip loader, then turn arrow back toward top (up). i have been using dry  chunks, loader wont turn back to (up) because of the size of  the chunks for about an hour, looks like this leaves more air to enter across the wood with the chip loader in the dump position, i leave the damper wide open, always have a clean burn ash. if it appears to burn too quickly, i stuff a foil ball behind the handle in the chute leaving only one hole exposed. adding chips to warm? for later use? not sure why this would be done, but i would think this would cut down on the air flow even more. i usually cook at 220 degrees, dont overload, and nothing with a lot of grease dripping,  always use the water pan mainly for safety raesons, and have no problems.


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## ronp (Jan 22, 2010)

There seems to something wrong with those pics. I just went out and looked and took some pics for you.




You can see the element right below the chip pan.


With the the tray out you can see that when it is pushed in it is right above the element. Direct heat. Let me know what you find out, I can't see any other way to use it or install it.


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## ronp (Jan 22, 2010)

There seems to something wrong with those pics. I just went out and looked and took some pics for you.




You can see the element right below the chip pan and above the loader.


With the the tray out you can see that when it is pushed in it is right above the element.


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## flyhigh123 (Jan 22, 2010)

mine smokes like crazy... sometimes i need to put less chips just to try to get the thin blue...


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## flyhigh123 (Jan 22, 2010)

looks like when u put the chip loader in, it is too high... the bottom portion of the loader should be below where its currently at so the part that is holding the chips is closer to the heating element


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## deltadude (Jan 22, 2010)

I am using a 19 month old 40" MES and my chip tray which has the tray part, and then the bottom slide piece, *the slide piece goes under the 2 horz*. bars, and the tray slides in above the heat element but on the side closest to the door, the element is actually touching the bottom of the tray.  So I have zero problems with chips burning properly.  In fact my tray is warped in a couple of spots from so much heat.

See if you can bend the chip tray down to actually touch the element.  I would think this is more likely the problem than the air holes, since those holes are all drilled by a machine with the same bit, and most other MES owners are not having your problem.

If your vent is always wide open, then basic fire physics takes over, to have fire you need  "fuel" - "heat" - "oxygen".  Well you have fuel "chips",
you most likely have "oxygen" since other MES owners have the same openings.  That leave "heat", solve that problem and you should be good.

This is an error!  The flat slide piece of metal slides between the two horz. bars and the slide rail you can see on the left, and deep in on the right.  That rail prevents the element from actually touching the chip tray (in most cases). In my case I believe the center part of the element is either touching the chip tray or is a hair short of touching.   DO NOT TRY TO BEND THE ELEMENT IT WILL BREAK.  If those slide rails are too high then chips would have trouble getting hot enough.

Pic courtesy of Fishawn


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## smokeguy (Jan 22, 2010)

If your pans are in the right places based off of the other posts and pics, I would suggest using less wood to start with. Like deltadude said I think heat is the problem too. It's a trade-off. 

Here's an example.
If you have a fixed amount of heat (say a match), and oxygen is plentiful, then you have to adjust your fuel to the type of heat source you have. 

You wouldn't try to start a fire with a match using 12" logs. You would use kindling of some sort- fat wood, pine cone, starter cube, paper, straw, or even small pieces of wood. 
Say you decide to use the small pieces of wood. You would want very small pieces that would have a lot of surface area to size ratio so that it would light easily, like toothpick size to start with. 
Then after that small fire was lit with that small match, you would progressively add bigger and bigger wood to it as the fire built up and could handle it. 

How does it handle it? You have "made" more heat by slowly adding more fuel to the original fuel, the match. You have to manage your heat to your fuel at all times or the fuel absorbs too much of the available heat, lowers the heat to a level that is not sufficient to burn, and bang, no more combustion. No combustion, no smoke.

With the MES you have a limited amount of heat based off of how long your coil is on and what size it is, at least to start with. That heat is divided up into going into your smoker, going into your meat, going into your water pan, going out the vent, leaking out any cracks, fighting back the cooler temps coming in from the outside through the walls, and yes, going into your fuel. So, you can see it's still a pretty limited amount of heat you have, particularly at the start when everything is needing as much heat as it can get. 

So, try preheating your MES for half an hour or so, so that the water and the inside walls and air come to temperature (or a bit higher so that you have some "reserve" heat) and don't need as much of your limited supply of heat later. While it preheats, leave your meat out for that half hour to hour to get it up to 40 degrees or better. Since there is nothing inside, keep the vent shut while you preheat so you don't lose heat out of that.

When everything is preheated, put your meat in with as little time-waste as possible so that you keep as much of the heat reserves as you can and don't waste it out the door (have the meat close to the smoker for example and the camera turned on and ready for Qview shots). 
Then put in some wood chips, small pieces, or small sticks and open the vent enough to let air flow smoothly, which isn't necessarily all the way open but might be (the more it's open, the more of the limited heat you have available you are losing through it). Once you start seeing a good amount of smoke, and it won't take long if you just start out with about 5 bits of small wood, you can add more remembering that the more you add, the more of the heat that is in the burning wood is going to transfer over to the new wood. Like the example, don't add that 12" log to your first matchstick sized base or the heat will all transfer over and your "fire" will go out. 

After the first hour, adding more fuel say 2-4 times over that period, you will have a good base going and better yet, a separate heat source from your element. Mgworks suggested putting a briquette in there and I do that too sometimes. It "might" give you a better smoke-ring, but it also helps to keep a stable heat source after your sticks/pieces are hot enough to transfer enough heat to the briquette without getting too cold. Think of the briquette as your 12" log. Get it burning and you can have a really good source of heat that's hard to put back out. And just because 1 briquette might be good doesn't necessarily mean 2 are better. It might get too hot that way for the MES internals, or the 2nd one might not get hot enough and will keep trying to suck the heat from the first one.

Long-winded reply, but hopefully it put some "heat" on the issue.


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## wetumpka (Jan 22, 2010)

Thanks for the help guys.  The wood tray does not sit on or near the element, mine looks like the pictures ronp posted.  Masterbuilt added a second piece of metal and a gap to the design.

ronp, does your wood tray fit tight in the slot?  Mine is tight and I need to push fairly hard to get it into place.

Plan on messing with is more early next week.

This weekend there are deer waiting to be killed down here.


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## ronp (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes mine fits tight.


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## insight (Jan 26, 2010)

I also noticed on my new 40" MES that the chip box is elevated about 1/4 inch above the coil. Smoked ok during break in and an additional 1 hour at 225 degrees.


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## wetumpka (Feb 6, 2010)

I found the solution.  I took it back to Bass Pro and got a new one.  I've tested the new one, at 250 deg with the vent half open, it will burn chips or sticks into ash.

Thanks again for the help guys.


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## ronp (Feb 6, 2010)

Glad you got it figured out.


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## figure8 (Feb 15, 2010)

My son bought me a 30" MES for Christmas. I've tried smoking almost every weekend since. The wood chips get black, but rarely any ash. Also little if any smoke flavor. It comes up to temp like it should and holds its temp throughout the smoke. I really want more than an outdoor oven. Masterbilt customer service (I've contacted them 3 times) says the unit works like it should and they can't do anything to help. My son's unit burns the wood to ash. I've tried 4 different kinds of wood chips (all Hickory). Any suggestions or should I try to return it to Bass pro Shops? Thank you. Phil


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## mgwerks (Feb 15, 2010)

Assuming your MES is in fact working as advertised, it pretty much comes down to temperature, air flow or fuel.  What temperature are you smoking at;  what sized wood pieces are you using, and is the top vent open all the way?


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## dave from mesa (Feb 15, 2010)

Crap!!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	




I have the same problem when I cooked my rib-eye roast on Sun. Cooked at 225 and got black chunks also. I had to empty the tray every other time I added wood.
Sorry to hear there is no solution other than take it back.
I will try some of the things I read here but I think I did them all ready.

That said I like all the other things about the unit. I will get this worked out.


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## scubadoo97 (Feb 16, 2010)

How do they know the unit works like it should?  Obviously yours and your son's work differently.  I'd take it back to Bass if you can


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## catmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm having to same problems. Wood chips just wont burn. Also bought at BPS on black friday.


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## figure8 (Feb 16, 2010)

I start out at 270 or 275 and bring the unit up to full temp. Then I put in the wood chips (small chips, not chunks) with the vent open about 1/3 of the way. After the unit starts to smoke I put the meat in and turn the temp down to 250. I use a meat thermometer with a probe on a wire. When the meat gets up to 140 I turn the temp down to 220 and close the vent to finish the smoke.  Any ideas? Thanks Phil


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## pitrow (Feb 16, 2010)

Don't close the vent. You need to have it open for air circulation and to prevent creosote. I run mine wide open all the time.


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## pignit (Feb 16, 2010)

The one thing you stated that you do may have a bearing on the combustion of the chips. The chip loader tray should be dumped and left in the down position. I took another look at mine and if you are turning it back up with a load of chips in it, it isn't going to get air from the holes provided. It creates a barrier between the chips your trying to burn and your air intake. I see that you took the unit back and that the new one is working properly, but for those of you who are having a problem you may want to take note. Not sayin this is the problem but if you are turning your chip loading tray to the up unlocked position you are not getting the benefit of the air intake holes at the end of the loader.


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## figure8 (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks; I will try this next weekend. I also plan to cook at 250 instead of 220. Phil


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## deltadude (Feb 16, 2010)

All the experienced MES owners run their vents wide open.  The 3 little air intake holes are sized to provide just enough combustion with the Vent wide open.  Any setting less than full open is restricting combustion.


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## figure8 (Feb 16, 2010)

Thank you; I will try this also. In the previous thread it was suggested to use Traeger wood pellets. If nothing else works, I'll try that too before I take it back. Phil


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## figure8 (Feb 16, 2010)

This is good to know. I've been running mine from 1/3 open to fully closed. Sounds like I have been choking off the oxygen and preventing the wood from burning properly. Phil


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## catmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

Where are the 3 air intake holes located?


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## figure8 (Feb 16, 2010)

In the vent on top of the unit


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## dave from mesa (Feb 16, 2010)

OK. Am trying this now. Half full chips, vent wide open. Should the chip loader be in the load or dump position, or does it matter? How long should it take to get to ash? Temp is 225.


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## xsists (Feb 16, 2010)

From the post above it should be in the dump position.


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## dave from mesa (Feb 16, 2010)

Sorry. So many posts I missed that.


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## deltadude (Feb 16, 2010)

Regarding the position of the chip tray loader, according to the MES Manual:








Air once it passes through the holes is available for combustion, it doesn't matter if the tray is up or down.  However you might get slightly better combustion if needed with the tray in down, maybe because the combustion process draws some air, and obviously it has a more direct path with the tray down.  

Personally I have always turn the loader back up.  I think there is a safety issues here.  I looked at the inside of my tray at the holes and there is quite a bit of what looks like carbon build up, yet there is nothing like that in the rounded bottom of the tray.  So by turning the tray back up (rem the holes are mounted in high impact plastic), it may keep the heat from being too excessive and frying that plastic.  I'm not sure.  Obviously the Mfg / engineers felt it was important to turn the tray back up or they wouldn't have addressed it in the manual.


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## spg1 (Feb 17, 2010)

I have had mine for almost a month now and am going through the same smoke issues.  

I have noticed that if I loaded up the tray I would actually get a decent fire inside the chip tray.  Is this normal?

The ribs I did last weekend I tried leaving the loader in the unload position, and it seemed to work well.  But to keep from having a small fire in the chip tray I tried using less wood each time I added.  But then I would only get smoke for about 15 minutes.

If possible I would like to see pictures of how much smoke is coming out of peoples upper vents while smoking.  I have been using apple and pecan with a sweet rub on the ribs and corn.  But the corn always has more of a smokey flavor than the ribs.

Could that be because of the mild woods I am using?  Or just not enough smoke??


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## pignit (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry.... I may have been passing on bad info. I've always left it in the unload position and had never encountered any problems.


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## deltadude (Feb 17, 2010)

Are you using a 30" or 40"?
Is yours with the new smaller smaller wood chip holder (not the loader) that the chips are dumped into?

It is hard for me to comment on the 30" since I only have a 20 month 40".  From reading MES posts for almost 20 months, the most complaints about chips burning properly is with the 30". There is a lot of speculation as to why, one reason the heat element heats up the cabinet so fast the element does not stay on and keep the chips burning.  I'm not sure that is the reason, 30" owners would know.  It could be how close the chip holder tray is to the heat element.  Mine is almost touching and the chip holder is warped from the heat.

Some possible solutions might be.
• Start with a few dry chips, if you preheated your MES you should have smoke in 2 to 3 minutes or less.  When I say a few chips 6-10 small chips.  Once the those chips are going wait about 5 minutes and add another small batch.  In 20 minutes or so you will have a hot bed of chips and hot ash inside the chip holder tray.  From that point on combustion shouldn't be a problem and you can add more like a half cup of chips.  Personally I found in my MES the sweet spot is like 8 to 10 chips.  Even if it is dark I can tell when the amount is right, the smoke smells great, it is sweet and no bitter smell, in the light it will be that TBS.  Even if you decide to use soaked chips start the smoke with dry to get that hot bed of ash and chips.  Wet chips usually only take another min. or two to start smoking.  I switch to chunks after I get the chips going, no more than 2 or 3 chunks at a time.  However chunks are not necessary, I use them to try and get an extra 20-30 min. of smoke time before adding more wood.  Using 10 chips at a time I have to add chips every 30 min.

• Get a tin can and start a few briquettes, use 1 or 2 hot grey briquettes with the wood chips to get them going.  Some MES owners swear by the use of briquettes, and say it adds a smoke ring on the meat as a bonus.  I did the briquette thing for several months and the smoke ring only happened a couple of times, since I had no issue getting chips smoking I hardly use briquettes.

• Preheat your MES.  Set the Controller to 270º and when it gets close start your smoke, quickly add the boiling water, add your meat, throw in the chips.  That tray will be hot enough to start those chips for sure.  Yes the manual says preheating isn't required.

How I got into preheating my MES.  In the summer, temp recovery and getting up to temp hasn't really been an issue.  When outdoor temps started dropping, the recovery times on the MES started increasing.  But I noticed that after 3 or 4 hours in a smoke, recovery was always pretty fast 5 to 10 min.  Even when the ambient outside was around 40º and once or twice colder (sacramento doesn't get below 40º very often).  The only thing I could think of was all the metal was thoroughly heated, and the insulation was also storing heat.  So during this time of year I preheat for at least 2 hours,  and 45 min. to hour when the temps are warmer.  I have kept notes and if I preheat to 260-270º , the temp drops to around 195-205º and 5 to 10 minutes later the temp as recovered to my desired 220-225º.  If I only preheat to 225º depending on ambient, after meat is loaded the controller temp drops to 160-175º, it could take 1 to 2 hours to get to 225º.


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## deltadude (Feb 17, 2010)

PignIt, you didn't pass bad info, you just shared what you honestly been doing.  And from all the posts I have read of yours it works fine, as you are turning out great Q.  As I said keeping the chip loader in "unload" may provide better drafting which could result in better combustion, either "unload" or "load" position provides the necessary oxygen.  (When I start a fire in my fire place *has insert, and I put the kindling down, I start with 2 large pieces one on each side the kindling pile in the direction of the door to the exhaust, instead of across the opening, which I use to pile the bigger stuff on once the kindling is going good and strong.  If I put those 2 pieces one in front of the kindling pile and other in back, it blocks the air flow, yes it will burn if everything is dry, but it takes longer. I hope this isn't confusing.)


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## spg1 (Feb 17, 2010)

I just got the new 40" from Sams's Club.

I will try preheating and see how that works for me.  I am looking for somewhere to get chunks locally (Anaheim, CA) to give them a try and see what happens.

The last smoke I did the chips had no problrm starting, I was just worried about the fire in the chip tray.

Thanks for the info.....


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## deltadude (Feb 17, 2010)

Just use less chips or soak them first, plus turn the load handle to "load", should solve the problem.  It is truly amazing how little chips are necessary to produce the necessary smoke to properly flavor meat inside an MES.


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## blacknsilver (Jun 21, 2010)

I just got the 40" model and smoked some ribs.  They turned out good but it seemed there was not smoke hardly.  I kept adding chips and after the 4th time I looked in the box and there were big black chunks in there like they did not burn all the way.  S I emptied it and added more.  Shouldn't it be all burned to ashes?    So if I set the temp to 225 and the temp hits 225 the light goes off.  Does this mean the burner shuts off also so then the chips wiil not burn and I would not get any smoke?  This is what seems is hppening.  So how is it going to smoke if the temp is at 225 or above and the element is turning off?  Just trying to understand how this thing works.  

Thanks,  there is a lot of good info here.   Greg


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## littleg (Jun 21, 2010)

So I am having this problem also. I am set-up correctly with the tray, pre-heated, using dry chips and still no smoke. If I put a small blower outside than i do get a nice smoke but it is not what I would call TBS. I put a Butane torch inside the chamber from the chip tube and as soon as it gets in it goes out due to lack of oxygen. I do not want to have to set a blower outside for a smoke but there is no oxygen in the chamber at all. Thoughts?


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## littleg (Jun 21, 2010)

UPDATE:

Just got off the phone with Masterbuilt and got pretty much the same answers as everyone else. She told me my unit was doing exactly what it was supposed to do and that it was supposed to be more of a steam than a smoke. I asked her why they called it a smoker than and told her if I wanted steamed for I would have bought a crockpot. She said that it was supposed to created blackened chips and not create ash. She also said to empty the chipbox prior to loading new chips. i questioned her as to if that defeated the purpose of having the chip tube and she said that the tube and loader was only to provide the correct amount of chips. Getting a little frustrated here as I do not want a high priced smoker and could have got a WSM for not much more.


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## mythmaster (Jun 21, 2010)

Start with just a few chips and preheat it to 270*.  10-15 mins after it's going add a few more chips.  Then about 30 mins later add some more chips.  It should be kicking out good smoke by the time it reaches 270*.  If not, then you might have a faulty unit like bear did.

Hope this helps.


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## scubadoo97 (Jun 21, 2010)

littleg said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Just got off the phone with Masterbuilt and got pretty much the same answers as everyone else. *She told me my unit was doing exactly what it was supposed to do and that it was supposed to be more of a steam than a smoke*. I asked her why they called it a smoker than and told her if I wanted steamed for I would have bought a crockpot. *She said that it was supposed to created blackened chips and not create ash.* She also said to empty the chipbox prior to loading new chips. i questioned her as to if that defeated the purpose of having the chip tube and she said that the tube and loader was only to provide the correct amount of chips. Getting a little frustrated here as I do not want a high priced smoker and could have got a WSM for not much more.


Very interesting response.  Don't know how to respond to the first quote about steaming but my 30 inch old style MES burns the chips, pellets and chunks to ash.  I only emply my wood tray prior to smoking but can smoke hours and hours as long as I add wood and the heats not too low.


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## littleg (Jun 21, 2010)

Bass Pro said they would take it back. Thinking I might take it back and get a propane smoker. Tough decision but it just hasn't worked right the 3 times I used it and I did all the research and even spent time with guys in the chat trying to get a good smoke.


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## blacknsilver (Jun 21, 2010)

I am just trying to understand ho this works readin gthe temperature.  If I set it at 225 and the temperature stays there then the element never comes on to burn the chips to smoke.  I noticed yesterday that the unit was turning off and on because the temp would bounce from like 222 - 227.  Ao it wasn't a constant smoke even though the ribs turned out good. But I thought you only snoked the first few hours and I was adding chips al the way to the end.   So the question is if the unit reaches temperature 225 does that mean I will not get anymore smoke?


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## mythmaster (Jun 21, 2010)

littleg said:


> Bass Pro said they would take it back. Thinking I might take it back and get a propane smoker. Tough decision but it just hasn't worked right the 3 times I used it and I did all the research and even spent time with guys in the chat trying to get a good smoke.


Sorry to hear that you have to take it back.

 


blacknsilver said:


> I am just trying to understand ho this works readin gthe temperature.  If I set it at 225 and the temperature stays there then the element never comes on to burn the chips to smoke.  I noticed yesterday that the unit was turning off and on because the temp would bounce from like 222 - 227.  Ao it wasn't a constant smoke even though the ribs turned out good. But I thought you only snoked the first few hours and I was adding chips al the way to the end.   So the question is if the unit reaches temperature 225 does that mean I will not get anymore smoke?


That's why you heat it to 270 first -- to get the chips burning really well.  Once they get going you just have to add a few when the smoke starts going down.  They will burn just fine at 225.  That's where I had mine set during the 5-hour smoke that I mentioned.  I was using soaked chips, too.  It takes some practice to get the hang of it.

Also, you could use something like the A-MAZE-N smoke generator and not have to worry about it at all.  I'm planning to get one to make things easier and for cold smokes, too.


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## ronp (Jun 21, 2010)

littleg said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Just got off the phone with Masterbuilt and got pretty much the same answers as everyone else. She told me my unit was doing exactly what it was supposed to do and that it was supposed to be more of a steam than a smoke. I asked her why they called it a smoker than and told her if I wanted steamed for I would have bought a crockpot. She said that it was supposed to created blackened chips and not create ash. She also said to empty the chipbox prior to loading new chips. i questioned her as to if that defeated the purpose of having the chip tube and she said that the tube and loader was only to provide the correct amount of chips. Getting a little frustrated here as I do not want a high priced smoker and could have got a WSM for not much more.


Something wrong here. Must be a new employee.



 


littleg said:


> Bass Pro said they would take it back. Thinking I might take it back and get a propane smoker. Tough decision but it just hasn't worked right the 3 times I used it and I did all the research and even spent time with guys in the chat trying to get a good smoke.


What a shame to take it back.

I would call back and insist in talking to a supervisor first. At least give it a try.


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## littleg (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, after a second phone call and little new info I traded it in for a Masterbuilt Propane. I just didn't like the fact that I was being told I had to crank the heat every time I wanted to get some smoke or add chips. The problem does seem to be that if it is at temp the element isn't on therefore it's not heating the chips. Plus, there is a serious combustion issue with the lack of oxygen in the chip tube. The second person I spoke with did say that the newer models chip tray was further from the element which was causing problems.


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## jykmoy (Jun 22, 2010)

I am so glad to find that I am not the only one with this problem.  I just bought my 30" Masterbuilt and have run it twice: once for salmon, another for a pork butt.  In both cases, the wood chips just turned black.  No ashes.  I wrote to Customer Support who suggested heating the unit to 275 dgrees for 30 minuites, loading up my meat, and resetting it to the desired temperature.  I did that for my pork but it didn't help.  The chips remained in a black, charcoal state.  I kept the vent closed hoping for a greater smoke effect, but am not sure now if that was the solution.  The problem seems to be that the unit does not get hot enough.  Inspite of the digital readout.  I think I'll use a regular thermometer to test the unit out.

I appreciate everyone's attempt at trying to get more charcoal burning.  That seems to be my problem.  After, almost 12 hours of "smoking" I thought my pork would be tender enough to "pull pork", but no.  The texture of the meat was the same as the butt from my regular electric oven in the kitchen!  I had to use a knife to cut off the bone.  You'd expect the meat to fall off the bone after 12 hours.  My hypothesis is: the unit does not get hot enough.


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## mythmaster (Jun 22, 2010)

My 30" MES is chugging along right now keeping a good Mesquite TBS on a brisket and maintaining temps that are perfectly acceptable (+/- 5* of target temp).

With pulled pork you need to make sure that you take its IT up to 205* regardless if it's a butt or a picnic or a whole shoulder.  It can take 12 hours or it can take 16+ hours -- the temp is what you go by.


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## jykmoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Mythmaster!  I was looking for advice like yours when I joined this forum!!!  My first pork butt did not turn out as expected.  I had the temperature set too low (165 degrees).  I had it in the Masterbuilt Smoker for 12 hours, but at such a low temp the meat never turned out as tender, bone falling off as it should.  The texture of the butt I got could have come out of my oven at 325 for 3,4 hours.   The temp is the clue...Thanks!


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## mythmaster (Jun 22, 2010)

You're quite welcome, *jykmoy*, but all of my knowledge about this has come from experienced smokers here at SMF.  They are the ones that you should thank -- not me.

Best of luck for you in the future!

-Bret


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