# Cure- Vacuum sealing?



## sub-80

I know some just wrap the bellies after putting the cure on...others leave the bellies in an air-tight container.

I vacuum sealed my first bacon cure...is this ok?  

The reason I ask is some like to drain the liquid that results daily and re-cure daily (or add salt anyway).  When I vacuum sealed I left it alone the entire time...besides a daily flipping/massaging.   The excreted liquid remained in contact with the belly, in the vacuum seal, the entire curing process for 7 days.  

There was a good amount of liquid squishing around.  It almost made me think of a brine, but this was a dry curing process.  

Is what I did ok...leaving it in the fax seal w/ the liquid...and never re-applying cure/salt?


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## diggingdogfarm

There's nothing wrong with vacuum sealing and not reapplying cure/salt. (Assuming the appropriate amount of cure/salt was applied to begin with,)

~Martin.


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## smokinhusker

DiggingDogFarm said:


> There's nothing wrong with vacuum sealing and not reapplying cure/salt. (Assuming the appropriate amount of cure/salt was applied to begin with,)
> 
> ~Martin.


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## sbishop

What others have said. I vacuum seal because i know then end will not open when massaging or turning....don't ask how i know..HA


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## couger78

I was planning on vac-sealing my bellies, but the size of the pork bellies (too big) made me opt for large ziplocs instead.


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## sub-80

Couger78 said:


> I was planning on vac-sealing my bellies, but the size of the pork bellies (too big) made me opt for large ziplocs instead.



I'm picking up my belly to begin curing today.  It's going to be at least a 10lb slab (hopefully bigger).

I will cut the belly in sections.  This will allow the proper size for vac sealing...and it will also allow me to experiment with different flavors in the cure.  So if it's too big...just cut it down to the size pieces you feel comfortable to work with.


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## sub-80

Thanks for the replies...I thought vac sealing was ok, but it's good to hear it confirmed.


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## sub-80

I know vac sealing can speed up marinades on various meats.

Can the same be said for vac sealed pork belly cures?


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## smokedhawk

estion-how much is the right amount of cure and is it #1 or #2whats the difference any help is much appreciated


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## diggingdogfarm

Use cure #1.
Curing salts explained......
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/curing-salts-for-sausage-making
The "rulers" at the USDA recommend no more than 200 ppm for rind-off bacon and 180 ppm for rind on when drive curing.
I use 156 ppm, which equates to one level teaspoon per 5 lbs. of bacon.

~Martin


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## smokedhawk

tks for the info gonna wait till fall to do bacon anymore help in the mean time is appreciated


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## bigkahunaranch

I was wondering the same thing in regard to vacuum sealing.

From what I have read, there are some folks that drain off the liquid, and others

that dont. 

I would think that by draining off some of the liquid, you would also be removing some of the curing

agent. So I have opted to leave mine alone and let it work its magic till its time.

I did store two bellies (about 4 lbs each) in vacuum bags, but mainly because the ziplock bags 

would not stay sealed.


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## keiths

I plan to vac mine next time. I made a huge mess with a glad lock bag.


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## laszlo

bigkahunaranch said:


> ......
> 
> I would think that by draining off some of the liquid, you would also be removing some of the curing
> 
> agent. So I have opted to leave mine alone and let it work its magic till its time.
> 
> .....


You are right there, draining liquid will decrease level of nitrites. After a bad leak from ziplock bag, I always cure in vacuum, although I do not remove all the air, just keep the meat a little loose in the bag. Turning the bag a giving it a gentle massage once a day and results are always good.


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## va_connoisseur

Are you all dry curing or wet curing when using the vacuum sealer?


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## chef jimmyj

va_connoisseur said:


> Are you all dry curing or wet curing when using the vacuum sealer?


This refers to Curing with Dry ingredients as apposed to curing in a Brine...JJ


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## wade

As said above, if you are using a cure do not drain off the liquid from the ziploc bag or vac pac as you will be significantly reducing the amount of cure in contact with the meat. It is natural for the salt/cure to draw water out of the meat and form a brine around it. It is also important to turn the bags quite regularly while curing (especially when using loose ziploc bags) to ensure the brine that is formed is in contact with all surfaces of the meat.


Chef JimmyJ said:


> This refers to Curing with Dry ingredients as apposed to curing in a Brine...JJ


As JJ says the curing with dry ingredients is "Dry Curing", however I suppose technically once the brine has started to form around the belly (and a lot of liquid is drawn out quite quickly) I guess it starts to become "Wet Curing/Brining". Maybe it should be called "Damp Curing"


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## va_connoisseur

Thanks for all the responses. I have ordered some #1 cure and found a few wet cure recipes. Could anyone share a dry brine recipe? I am looking to do some natural sugar bacon? Thanks.


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## daveomak

va_connoisseur said:


> Thanks for all the responses. I have ordered some #1 cure and found a few wet cure recipes. Could anyone share a dry brine recipe? I am looking to do some natural sugar bacon? Thanks.



Pops has a good brining recipe...   Search "Pops brine recipe"....  


 What I do for a dry rub/brine...
Weigh the belly.... add cure at 1.3 grams per pound (~


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## wade

va_connoisseur said:


> Thanks for all the responses. I have ordered some #1 cure and found a few wet cure recipes. Could anyone share a dry brine recipe? I am looking to do some natural sugar bacon? Thanks.


A word of warning when using recipes that include Bay Leaves - as quite a few do. I used a couple of fresh Bay leaves in my latest cure (as per the recipe) and it left a distinctly bitter (chlorophyll) aftertaste throughout the bacon. I would not have thought so little Bay would have had such a dramatic effect. I have not tried it again since, however I have now read that if you are using Bay then the leaves should be dried - not fresh. Maybe others here have had better experiences with Bay than me..


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## va_connoisseur

DaveOmak said:


> Pops has a good brining recipe... Search "Pops brine recipe"....
> 
> 
> What I do for a dry rub/brine...
> Weigh the belly.... add cure at 1.3 grams per pound (~<200 Ppm)... add salt at 2% and sugar at 1%.... Good places to start... add other spices... rub into the meat.. zip bag it in refer for 10-15 days... rinse and dry (add black pepper now if you want pepper bacon)... rest for another couple days in refer ... warm to room temp and place in front of a fan to form the pellicle.... cold smoke for 4-24 hours plus... cold smoking should be done in steps over several days.. smoke on.... smoke off... always very thin blue smoke for the best flavor.... partially freeze and slice...
> 
> 
> http://www.meatsandsausages.com/meat-smoking/cold-smoking


How do I figure out percentages? I have an accurate scale to do the cure (it arrived today). The belly slab is ~7 pounds


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## chef jimmyj

Here is the math, Sir...JJ

7 X 1.3g/lb = 9.1g Cure #1 = .32oz

7 X .02 = .14lb X 16 = 2.24oz Salt = 63.56g

7 X .01 =.07 X 16 = 1.12oz Sugar = 31.78g


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## daveomak

454 gms in 1 pound.....   454 x 0.02 (for 2% salt) = 9.08 grams of salt per pound....  sugar would be half of that or 4.54 grams of sugar per pound...

Soooooo for 7 #'s of bellies.....  7 x 9.08 = 63.6 grams and  31.8 grams for sugar...


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## va_connoisseur

Thanks. For some reason I did not think it would be that simple. I should be getting started today. I'll post pictures when it's all done.


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## mr ray ray

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Use cure #1.
> Curing salts explained......
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/curing-salts-for-sausage-making
> The "rulers" at the USDA recommend no more than 200 ppm for rind-off bacon and 180 ppm for rind on when drive curing.
> I use 156 ppm, which equates to one level teaspoon per 5 lbs. of bacon.
> 
> ~Martin


 how would you calculate that


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## mr ray ray

Ok in response to my own question. What I did was I have 1.5kg ham I used 150 grams of salt and 3 grams of instacure 1 and spices to cure in a vacuum bag for 14 days. would that keep me in the safe zone when using instacure 1. that would be around 1.2 ish grams per american pound of weight.the ham will undergo a waterbath of 24 hours after cure changing out water every 3 hours to pull out salt then undergoes a 3 steep cold smoking 3x 12 hours with 12 hour rest between each smoking..


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## atomicsmoke

You started with a little less cure than most people use (0.25%, you have 0.2%) and way too much salt (10%). 

I assume you plan to cook the ham after cold smoking. I suggest after the water bath you fry a sample. If too salty (which I think it will be) let it soak longer.


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## atomicsmoke

.


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## daveomak

Mr Ray Ray said:


> Ok in response to my own question. What I did was I have 1.5kg ham I used 150 grams of salt and 3 grams of instacure 1 and spices to cure in a vacuum bag for 14 days. would that keep me in the safe zone when using instacure 1. that would be around 1.2 ish grams per american pound of weight.the ham will undergo a waterbath of 24 hours after cure changing out water every 3 hours to pull out salt then undergoes a 3 steep cold smoking 3x 12 hours with 12 hour rest between each smoking..


Ray, morning.....   

Ppm nitrite...  200 Ppm nitrite = 200 mg per Kg....     0.2 grams per 1000 grams...   etc...    if your curing salt is 6.25% nitrite, as an example, and you need 0.2 grams of nitrite for 1000 grams of meat to get 200 Ppm nitrite, 0.2 grams / 0.0625 = 3.2 grams of cure #1 per 1000 grams of stuff...    

for 150 Ppm nitrite in final product, 0.15 gram / 0.0625 = 2.4 grams of cure #1 per 1000 grams of stuff...

Does that answer you question on how to calculate Ppm ??

Dave


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## mr ray ray

no it is a raw ham like a prosciutto type ham but the way the Germans do it      this is what iam attempting to create


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## mr ray ray

no it is a raw ham like a prosciutto type ham but the way the Germans do it      this is what iam attempting to create 


atomicsmoke said:


> You started with a little less cure than most people use (0.25%, you have 0.2%) and way too much salt (10%).
> 
> I assume you plan to cook the ham after cold smoking. I suggest after the water bath you fry a sample. If too salty (which I think it will be) let it soak longer.


no it is a raw ham like a prosciutto type ham but the way the Germans do it      this is what iam attempting to create


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## mr ray ray

thank you this does help


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## atomicsmoke

Mr Ray Ray said:


> no it is a raw ham like a prosciutto type ham but the way the Germans do it      this is what iam attempting to create
> no it is a raw ham like a prosciutto type ham but the way the Germans do it      this is what iam attempting to create



I assume you will be drying it after smoking. 14 days with 10% salt, then dried. I still believe it will taste salty.


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## mr ray ray

it will be ready to consume after smoke but it will continue to air dry I will post my final result to share


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## atomicsmoke

Is this speck? Without drying it will taste raw. The salt removed some of the moisture, but some will go back in during the water bath. 

I never made speck but like any air cured meat it has to lose weight/water to be palatable.

Have you air dried meat before?


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## mr ray ray

Yes but a lot i am looking at a 30% loss in weight that is the target from what i have read.


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## mr ray ray

suppose to say yes but not a lot


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## atomicsmoke

What I am trying to say : you will not lose 30% in a few days of smoking. It will take weeks (of drying after smoking).


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## PK Jee

laszlo said:


> You are right there, draining liquid will decrease level of nitrites. After a bad leak from ziplock bag, I always cure in vacuum, although I do not remove all the air, just keep the meat a little loose in the bag. Turning the bag a giving it a gentle massage once a day and results are always good.


Why is vaccum sealing done whats the purpose ?


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