# Belly Up!



## pit 4 brains (Mar 2, 2011)

Ok, i got a 10+ Lb belly from my butcher today. I have done a score of BBB up to now but never a belly. Another factor i am facing is I am using cure #1 instead of TQ which has been my staple for curing. I have determined 2 1/2 teaspoons of #1, about 3 Tablespoons of raw sugar (turbinado) and a half cup of kosher salt for the whole 10 Lbs.. I'm sure about the amount of #1, the sugar doesn't matter but do I need an entire 1/2 cup of salt for a belly? This is basically running off of ryteks recipe. I saw Bearcarvers recipe but he uses TQ... I know I need a mixer for my #1 to be spread around but it just seems a bit high for me so I'm asking around before i mess up 40 bucks worth of belly.. Any thoughts?

Also, in the book, he uses 4 Tb of #1 for a slab?? If a slab comes in at roughly 10 lbs, than it should only take 1/2 ounce of #1 which should be 1 TB if 6 tsp is an ounce.

Am I cunfused here?


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 2, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> Ok, i got a 10+ Lb belly from my butcher today. I have done a score of BBB up to now but never a belly. Another factor i am facing is I am using cure #1 instead of TQ which has been my staple for curing. I have determined 2 1/2 teaspoons of #1, about 3 Tablespoons of raw sugar (turbinado) and a half cup of kosher salt for the whole 10 Lbs.. I'm sure about the amount of #1, the sugar doesn't matter but do I need an entire 1/2 cup of salt for a belly? This is basically running off of ryteks recipe. I saw Bearcarvers recipe but he uses TQ... I know I need a mixer for my #1 to be spread around but it just seems a bit high for me so I'm asking around before i mess up 40 bucks worth of belly.. Any thoughts?


Check with Pops on that.

He's been doing a lot of "Salt Cutting", and IMO nobody knows more about it than he does.

I think he wet cures his Bacons though, which is what I would do, if I was going to use cure #1, instead of TQ.

Bear


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 2, 2011)

Bearcarver said:


> Check with Pops on that.
> 
> He's been doing a lot of "Salt Cutting", and IMO nobody knows more about it than he does.
> 
> ...


I was thinking of a wet cure myself since there should be so little #1 for ten lbs of meat

Maybe I'll just run with the TQfor now.


----------



## alblancher (Mar 2, 2011)

For 10 lbs bacon   4536 grams  I have

3 oz  or  84 gr  salt

1.6 oz  or 45.4 g  Sugar

0.4 oz  or 11.3 g    cure 1

You can dust with additional salt and sugar later during the cure time.  I always use a dry cure and have very good results.

Al


----------



## fpnmf (Mar 2, 2011)

Pops wet cure is very easy. You can find it in the search tool.

You paid 40 bucks for 10 pounds of belly?

Hope the skin is off.

I have had great luck with Bears recipe.

Read this>>>http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/102267/bacon-troubles/20  

Pops6927
OTBS, SMF Premier Member, Resident Meathead, Trusted Authority
/custom/huddle/smokingmeat/img/badges/badge_otbsmember.v1298930033.png
 
offline

1,659 Posts. Joined 7/2008
Location: Fort Worth, Tx.
Just to toss a big ol' wrench right in the middle of this..... try *WET curing**  *instead of dry curing ... mix up ½ cup to 1 cup salt, 1 cup brown sugar, 1 cup plain ol' sugar, 1 tbsp. pink salt, and 1 gallon of water.  Dump your meat in a bucket, cover it with brine, let it sit for 5 - 7 days in the fridge, don't flip it, don't massage it, don't examine it.. just let it sit and cure.  Make up multiple batches as necessary or partial batches to cover it in brine. Toss a ziploc gallon bag half full of water (push the air out) on top of it to weight it down first.  After it cures, dump the brine, fry test (you don't need to soak ("freshen") it either!), smoke and enjoy!

Got two 16 lb. turkeys pickling as we speak... leave 'em alone for 6 days while we go on a cruise, no fuss no muss no flip no dredge no massage no foolin'...!  A smoker full of yum when we get home!


----------



## DanMcG (Mar 2, 2011)

alblancher said:


> For 10 lbs bacon   4536 grams  I have
> 
> 3 oz  or  84 gr  salt
> 
> ...


I'll right in tune with Al here , 85/45 salt to sugar in grams for a mild bacon, or for a store bought salty taste 100/35 salt/sugar in grams.  I like mine alttle sweet so I'll go more to the sweet side.

As far as volume measurements I cant help ya Pete. I almost always use weight for curing


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 2, 2011)

fpnmf said:


> Pops wet cure is very easy. You can find it in the search tool.
> 
> You paid 40 bucks for 10 pounds of belly?
> 
> ...


Yuppers, bellies are 3.99 a lb if ya can find 'em..

I saw that thread before and started to laugh! At first I thought Bear was telling the guy to kick his smoker over and kill himself!! LOL. I'm not starting with bacon, just #1 and bellies. I do think I'm gonna do the wet cure since I want to try using #1 and the wet brine uses it very liberally.. Thanks for the research.. I did some searching but I'm also daddy daycare today with one sick child..
 




DanMcG said:


> I'll right in tune with Al here , 85/45 salt to sugar in grams for a mild bacon, or for a store bought salty taste 100/35 salt/sugar in grams.  I like mine alttle sweet so I'll go more to the sweet side.
> 
> As far as volume measurements I cant help ya Pete. I almost always use weight for curing


A decent scale is next on my things to aquire list! I want to get one that reads out to one ounce and one gram and has a tare feature.. any such animal? I have been huntin around the net a little but finding no results...


----------



## fpnmf (Mar 3, 2011)

>>>>>>>! I want to get one that reads out to one ounce and one gram and has a tare feature.. any such animal?  

I got one off Amazon... works good.

I got the Escali...but here's todays choices..

Craig

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=escali+scale


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 3, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> I was thinking of a wet cure myself since there should be so little #1 for ten lbs of meat
> 
> Maybe I'll just run with the TQfor now.


Exactly---Many disagree with me, but I can't even begin to understand how anyone can evenly distribute ONE TABLESPOON of cure over 12.5 pounds of belly ( about 300 square inches).

There would be too much here & there, and not enough at that spot & that spot.

That's why I would only use TQ for dry curing & if I was going to use Cure #1, I would wet/brine cure, like Pops (my hero) does.

The guys who dry cure with cure #1 are still alive, so I guess it won't kill you if you're careful---It just doesn't compute with me.

I can't help it----when I get a common sense thing in my head, it just won't leave.

Bear


----------



## daveomak (Mar 3, 2011)

I have purchased 2 scales from Raven Scales on ebay. Honest warrenty policy. I had to use it. no hassle.

http://stores.ebay.com/Raven-Scales-Online?_rdc=1


----------



## ol' smokey (Mar 3, 2011)

Try this site out for your digital scale, http://www.toplinedigitalscales.com/index.html

Joe


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 3, 2011)

Notice to guys buying scales:

Don't get one like I got----I love it, but I wish somebody would have told me about the ones that you can remove the readout part from the scale part.

If I have something large to weigh, I have to try to balance it on the back half of the scale, so I can read the digital screen.

Bear


----------



## fpnmf (Mar 3, 2011)

Mr Bear sez"If I have something large to weigh, I have to try to balance it on the back half of the scale, so I can read the digital screen.  ".

 I have a large stainless bowl that has fairly steep sides.

Fits right on my lil ol scale and I can still see the read out.

I was having fits about it being covered until I tried the bowl.

A removable screen would be da bomb.

  Craig


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 3, 2011)

DaveOmak said:


> I have purchased 2 scales from Raven Scales on ebay. Honest warrenty policy. I had to use it. no hassle.
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/Raven-Scales-Online?_rdc=1


Thanx for the link but I will not use Ebay again. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice.... nope not gonna happen again.
 




Ol' Smokey said:


> Try this site out for your digital scale, http://www.toplinedigitalscales.com/index.html
> 
> Joe


Great site here.. Thanx


----------



## eman (Mar 3, 2011)

Bearcarver said:


> Exactly---Many disagree with me, but I can't even begin to understand how anyone can evenly distribute ONE TABLESPOON of cure over 12.5 pounds of belly ( about 300 square inches).
> 
> There would be too much here & there, and not enough at that spot & that spot.
> 
> ...


I have never had a problem w/ dry cured bacon using #1 but you do need to weigh it out and mix w/ salt / sugar very well.

 Apply the same as you do w/ TQ . Make sure that the weighed ammt all goes on the belly. if it spills off while rubbing put it back on before wrapping or bagging for the cure time.

  Never tried wet curing . Never saw the need . Dry works fine.


----------



## bbally (Mar 3, 2011)

Bearcarver said:


> Exactly---Many disagree with me, but I can't even begin to understand how anyone can evenly distribute ONE TABLESPOON of cure over 12.5 pounds of belly ( about 300 square inches).
> 
> There would be too much here & there, and not enough at that spot & that spot.
> 
> ...


It won't kill you if you get the correct amounts.  The chemistry involved through its actions ensures proper dispersement through the reaction itself.  A whole lot of things are going on, but the key is the reaction is run away, so no matter how homogenius the dry rub, it the proper amounts are in for the weight of meat that needs cured, the reaction will complete in the alotted time frame to a total curing.  Especially during the HNO3 to to H20 NO3 break.  Which is very violent.  It also creates the charges necessary for the Ion to cause the effect called London Dispersement, which furthers the homogeninity of the rub as time takes place.

Nothing to be worried about as long as you measure the correct amount for the meat, and mix it up well.  Settled science for years, with the USDA FSIS as well. 

All meats are wet cured.... just depends if you start with a cure rub or a cure pickle.  But they all turn into wet cures as soon as the reaction starts.


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 3, 2011)

eman said:


> I have never had a problem w/ dry cured bacon using #1 but you do need to weigh it out and mix w/ salt / sugar very well.
> 
> Apply the same as you do w/ TQ . Make sure that the weighed ammt all goes on the belly. if it spills off while rubbing put it back on before wrapping or bagging for the cure time.
> 
> Never tried wet curing . Never saw the need . Dry works fine.


Yup, that's what people do when they use Cure #1 for dry curing, and it seems to work fine for them.

I just don't like to worry about myself not mixing it properly for one. Number two, I have never seen a recipe using cure #1 that had the importance of the "mixing very well" mentioned with the amount of emphasis that is needed. With TQ, I don't have to worry about it. It stays mixed.

If someone mixed up a couple pounds, and put it in a bag like TQ comes in, each time they would dip into that bag would have a different percentage of cure in it, and there would be a very big difference from the top of that bag to the bottom of the bag. If someone were to mix a big batch, each time they would want to use some, they should remix the whole batch, before they remove how much they are going to use at that time.

I realize you don't mix it & stock it, but I feel these are the kinds of things that should be said when this topic comes up.

Thanks Eman

Bear

Edit: The time on this post is exactly the same as on bbally's post, and I posted it before I read his post, but it still carries my opinion.


----------



## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

Total curing mix with cure, salt and sugar as provided has a total weight of 140 grams or 7 tablespoons of mixture.  The three ingredients must be well combined to get an even distribution of cure.

Do not try and distribute 1 teaspoon of cure separate from the other ingredients

It is not correct to say that dry cured bacon is unsafe.  Just like anything we talk about on this forum if you don't know how to do something you can produce a product that is not safe.

Most dry cure methods or at least the method I use is to wrap the bellies tightly in saran wrap for at least the first three days.  According to my research and the comments by posters familiar with the subject the majority of the cure process occurs within the first three days.  During that time period the bellies are allowed to rest in their naturally developed juices further distributing the cure, salt and sugar. 

*"For all you newbies please do not read the next paragraph"*

We dry and wet cure bacon at maximum amounts of cure as allowed by USDA  120ppm.  The minimum requirement is 40ppm.    With a wet cure some of the curing agent is retained in the brine.  With a dry cure some of the Curing agent is lost when we discard the liquid pulled from the bellies.  Neither procedure allows for 100 percent of cure absorption but both allow for considerably greater amounts of cure then the minimal 40 ppm.  Exactly how much neither I nor anyone else on this forum can answer.

*  *

*For any Newbie that did not take my advice and read the above paragraph*

*  *

 Please do not change the tested recipes you have, thinking you can reduce the amount of Nitrites and Nitrates in your cure.   The amounts in the recipes are for your safety and the safety of those you share your hard work with.  The reasons a wet cure is popular and recommended by most members of this forum is because it is easier, safer and faster for people unfamiliar with curing meats.  Wet curing also produces a flavorful bacon, as you well know if you follow the recipes on this site or have ever eaten store bought bacon.  If you are not familiar with the proper handling of fresh or semi-cured meat stay with the wet cure until you are comfortable with those techniques. 

Al


----------



## bbally (Mar 3, 2011)

Good method Al!!!!


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 3, 2011)

alblancher said:


> Total curing mix with cure, salt and sugar as provided has a total weight of 140 grams or 7 tablespoons of mixture.  The three ingredients must be well combined to get an even distribution of cure.
> 
> Do not try and distribute 1 teaspoon of cure separate from the other ingredients
> 
> ...


Thanks Al,

I agree with all of your points, in every paragraph, as long as you're not saying that I said "dry cured Bacon is unsafe".

I dry cure all of my cured meats with TQ. TQ is easier to keep from screwing up, when dry curing, but it doesn't mean you can't dry cure with other cures. You just have to be more careful than you have to be with TQ. Wet curing with other cures is also easier to keep from screwing up. Those few things are my main points.

That is why I said, I dry cure with TQ & if I used cure #1, I would wet cure with it. 

It doesn't mean that I'm saying if you do something else, you aren't being safe, unless you are doing that something else in an unsafe manner.

Bear


----------



## ak1 (Mar 3, 2011)

Wow, I thought $1.69 per pound was expensive!!!
 


Pit 4 Brains said:


> Yuppers, bellies are 3.99 a lb if ya can find 'em..


----------



## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

Bearcarver said:


> Exactly---Many disagree with me, but I can't even begin to understand how anyone can evenly distribute ONE TABLESPOON of cure over 12.5 pounds of belly ( about 300 square inches).
> 
> There would be too much here & there, and not enough at that spot & that spot.
> 
> ...


I wonder where I got the idea that you think dry curing bacon is unsafe?


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 3, 2011)

alblancher said:


> I wonder where I got the idea that you think dry curing bacon is unsafe?


So ---You missed this part?

The guys who dry cure with cure #1 are still alive, so *I guess it won't kill you if you're careful*.

Where does it say I said, "Dry curing Bacon is unsafe".

How could I say "Dry curing Bacon is unsafe"? 

All of my Bacons are Dry Cured!

I recommend what I think is best, I state what I think is best, and I also do what I think is best.

These are all my opinions, backed by some reasoning (also stated).

People can read all of the posts, and do what they want to do, but I think you and I both said that they can dry cure with Cure #1, if they are careful. The only difference is I state that you have to be even more careful if you dry cure with cure #1 than with TQ.

That is my opinion, and I stated some of my reasoning for that opinion.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Bear


----------



## ak1 (Mar 3, 2011)

Actually, because of the nitrate/nitrite combination, you'd have to be much more careful with TQ, than with Cure#1


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 3, 2011)

Good reading fellas!

I went ahead and did the wet brine thing with the following ingredients.

1 Gallon water

3/4 or just a bit less of kosher salt

2 cups turbinado sugar to take the place of 1 cup brown and 1 cup plain

1 level tablespoon of instacure

I have a 10 lb belly cut into three pieces in the brine.

If I was to go with the label that the SaugageMaker put on the package, it would require 3 tablespoons of #1 for a gallon of water.

In Ryteks book, he mentions that only #1 should used for bacons due to thier short cure time. Tenderquick has a 50/50 blend of nitrite and nitrate. I came to the conclusion, based on everything I have read in this forum and everywhere else, that the nitrate should not be used for short cures but for long cures like salami, ham etc.. So what happens to the nitrate in TQ if it doesn't have a long enough time to change to nitrite then dissipate?


----------



## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains

If you are using a cure with specific instructions you need to follow those instructions.  It is not uncommon for manufacturers to combine different ingrediants in different proportions.  If you are using Cure 1 then the amounts should be close to the same as Rhytek.  If you are using a Cure Mix all bets are off and you need to follow the recommendation on that cure mix for the specific technique.

You can always look at the percentages of Nitrite, Nitrate and Salt in the mix and compare to a standard Cure 1   6.25% Sodium Nitrite and 93.75% salt

Everything else should be fine,  good luck.


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 3, 2011)

AK1 said:


> Actually, because of the nitrate/nitrite combination, you'd have to be much more careful with TQ, than with Cure#1


On the contrary:

If you use TQ, you only have to use the proper amount that is specified, because they already did the mixing, and because of the ingredients & their manufacturing process, it will stay mixed.

Now if the amount of Nitrates & Nitrites they put in doesn't suit you, or worries you, you can either not use it, or give Morton's a call & tell their Chemists who have been mixing TQ for many many years to change their formula, because you think it is wrong.

If they don't agree, and refuse to do as you say, you can call the USDA, and have them all locked up & shut the place down.

Bear


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 3, 2011)

Calm down fellas...

The stuff I have is from Thesausagemaker.com and it is standard pink instacure #1 6.25%. I am just finding different amounts called for in different recipies and methods. I'm sure i'm safe with one TB for a gallon of brine and ten lbs of meat.


----------



## ak1 (Mar 4, 2011)

I don't have a problem with TQ in itself. I'm sure it's a very good cure. Where I have a concern, is that TQ is a proprietary product and as such is not a substitute for any other cure. That could cause problems for someone not familiar with the difference between TQ & Cure#1.

Basically, if you're happy with TQ that's fine. But not everyone feels the same. You don't need to get so condescending with your posts!
 


Bearcarver said:


> On the contrary:
> 
> If you use TQ, you only have to use the proper amount that is specified, because they already did the mixing, and because of the ingredients & their manufacturing process, it will stay mixed.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 4, 2011)

AK1 said:


> I don't have a problem with TQ in itself. I'm sure it's a very good cure. Where I have a concern, is that TQ is a proprietary product and as such is not a substitute for any other cure. That could cause problems for someone not familiar with the difference between TQ & Cure#1.
> 
> Basically, if you're happy with TQ that's fine. But not everyone feels the same. You don't need to get so condescending with your posts!


If you have a problem with a discussion between Me, Al, and best of all (bbally), which is the kind of serious discussion that is good for people to read, just ignore it, or read it. It's your prerogative. We do these now & then.

I'm sure many people learn a lot from these discussions, because I know I learn a lot from Al & Bob myself.

As for my being condescending, all of my posts were about being careful using cure #1.

None of them said cure #1 itself was unsafe.

None of them said anyone should not use cure #1.

Now your comment comes in and actually tries to tell people that Tender Quick is unsafe, due to the amount of nitrites/nitrates in it. If someone doesn't stop such a statement quick, people might actually believe that. Nobody else replied to you. I guess because of my avid use of TQ, they figured I would handle it. I replied to your attack on TQ the best I knew how. I don't consider what I said to be condescending---It was exactly what was needed to inform others that if there was something wrong with TQ, as you stated, they would not be selling it.

Now coming back & telling us how you think it is a very good cure, and the fact that you can't substitute it for other cures, doesn't change your original statement about a problem with their ingredients.

If that isn't what you meant, perhaps you should have made that comment a little more explanatory, so people would know what you meant, because I still read it as saying "Because of the wrong amount of nitrites/nitrates in TQ, people have to be more careful using TQ than using other cures". 

Oh yeah, before I forget, a statement like, "Basically, if you're happy with TQ that's fine. But not everyone feels the same." should only be used against me if I said I wouldn't use other cures. If you read my posts, you will see that I often say I would use Cure # 1 cures, and I never said others should not use other cures. I would use them in a wet/brine cure method, so I don't have to worry about the distribution problem I see. That problem being either a real possible problem, or a figment of my imagination, is still a problem in my mind.

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 4, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> Calm down fellas...
> 
> The stuff I have is from Thesausagemaker.com and it is standard pink instacure #1 6.25%. I am just finding different amounts called for in different recipies and methods. I'm sure i'm safe with one TB for a gallon of brine and ten lbs of meat.




If that's what Al & bbally say is right, I would bank on it. I have no idea, because so far I have not used it.

Bear


----------



## mfeder (Mar 4, 2011)

Why do so many people use Tenderquick to cure bacon when the USDA states the following:

"Because of problems associated with nitrosamine formation in bacon, MPI Regulations, section

318.7(b)(1) and (3) prescribe the amounts of nitrite and sodium ascorbate or sodium erythorbate

(isoascorbate) to be used in pumped and massaged bacon. For the immersion curing and dry

curing of bacon, maximum amounts of sodium and potassium nitrite are prescribed in section

318.7(b)(5) and (6) of the MPI Regulations.

Establishment management must submit pickle formulas and the method(s) of preparing *pumped*

*and/or massaged bacon *to the processing staff officer at the appropriate regional office. The

pickle formula and targeted percent pump or pick-up must meet the limits listed below. Once the

procedure is approved, production may begin.

Regardless of the curing method used, restricted ingredient calculations for bacon are based on

the *green weight *of the skinless belly. For rind-on bacon, e.g., where the skin is sold as part of

the finished product, a restricted ingredient conversion calculation is necessary. *Nitrate is no*

*longer permitted in any curing method for bacon."*

  

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf  

Does that only apply to commercial production of bacon?


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 4, 2011)

Mfeder said:


> Why do so many people use Tenderquick to cure bacon when the USDA states the following:
> 
> "Because of problems associated with nitrosamine formation in bacon, MPI Regulations, section
> 
> ...


More than likely.. The USDA can only suggest or recommend what you do personally.


----------



## alblancher (Mar 5, 2011)

The two of you have found the core of the discussion.    Morton's says it's OK to use Tender quick for Bacon.   AK and others (me included) say it may be OK but we prefer not to, based on the USDA guidelines and other discussions about using Nitrates in meats subject to high temperature.  I will have to look at what temp is considered dangerous.  I believe that is where the discussion ends, that frying bacon does not generate a high enough temp to convert the Nitrates to Nitrosamines.  It is clearly stated in most of the research I have done that the USDA does not allow the use of Nitrates when curing bacon.

It is an ongoing battle between Big Business and Big Govenmant, between the little guy and da Man, between the Yanks and the Rebels,  no just kidding about that stuff.

Can't wait to see the rest of the discussion, going to put my motorcycle helmet on, find the flack jacket, maybe the steel toed boots and safety glasses.

Al


----------



## chefrob (Mar 5, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> A decent scale is next on my things to aquire list! I want to get one that reads out to one ounce and one gram and has a tare feature.. any such animal? I have been huntin around the net a little but finding no results...










pete, i got this @ target and the read out pulls out...............


----------



## chefrob (Mar 5, 2011)

alblancher said:


> For 10 lbs bacon   4536 grams  I have
> 
> 3 oz  or  84 gr  salt
> 
> ...


mine is close to that.......

85 g salt

50 g sugar

10 g cure 1

what kind of salt are you using pete............weight by volume differs.......need to get a scale!


----------



## bbally (Mar 5, 2011)

> A decent scale is next on my things to aquire list! I want to get one that reads out to one ounce and one gram and has a tare feature.. any such animal? I have been huntin around the net a little but finding no results...


Here is the one I have for my classes:  Click the pick to go to the seller.


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 6, 2011)

chefrob said:


> mine is close to that.......
> 
> 85 g salt
> 
> ...


I used Mortons Kosher salt. Going by Pops recipe, he calls for 1/2 to 1 cup salt and I assumed he wouldn't use table salt. i almost used sea salt but I want what I have left for cooking. Scale=$$ and I gots none righ now..




bbally said:


> Here is the one I have for my classes:  Click the pick to go to the seller.


Thanx for the link Bob!


----------



## chefrob (Mar 6, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> I used Mortons Kosher salt. Going by Pops recipe, he calls for 1/2 to 1 cup salt and I assumed he wouldn't use table salt. i almost used sea salt but I want what I have left for cooking. Scale=$$ and I gots none righ now..


not all brands are the same weight by volume.......it depends how fine or coarse the grind is. and you can always use mine.........i'm right with ya on the $$ scene right now!


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 6, 2011)

chefrob said:


> not all brands are the same weight by volume.......it depends how fine or coarse the grind is. and you can always use mine.........i'm right with ya on the $$ scene right now!


I may take you up on the offer of the scale.. If you need to use a stuffer or a grinder let me know..

I just dug up my old ammunition reloading scale to see if it might be handy in fine measurements since it weighs in grains. I can easily weigh out small amounts of cure with a grain/ounce conversion so all i need now is the scale to weigh larger amounts of dry ingredients and bulk meat. I'll be researching this quite well. I only wanna buy once..


----------



## chefrob (Mar 6, 2011)

i have 2 scales........one for cure and spices and a meat scale up to 22#'s. hmmmmmm ...........grinder & stuffer? food city needs to have a butt sale and we are all over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ak1 (Mar 7, 2011)

Bearcarver said:


> If you have a problem with a discussion between Me, Al, and best of all (bbally), which is the kind of serious discussion that is good for people to read, just ignore it, or read it. It's your prerogative. We do these now & then.
> 
> I'm sure many people learn a lot from these discussions, because I know I learn a lot from Al & Bob myself.
> 
> ...


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 12, 2011)

Ok, it just came out of the smokehuse. I took it to 140 to aid in slicing. Do the bellies normally distort when hung? Another question, do you all remove the rind right after smoking or after cooling? I think I'm going to leave it on for now and try to take some off tomorrow to render down. I like a little on my bacon, now I have to pass it by the wife and kids.. Sliced pics tomorrow..


----------



## alblancher (Mar 12, 2011)

I would think 140 is to high a final temp.  I can't remember the exact temp that fat renders but at140 you may have cooked a bunch of the fat out.  Did you have a puddle of grease under the bacon when you pulled it?


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 12, 2011)

alblancher said:


> I would think 140 is to high a final temp.  I can't remember the exact temp that fat renders but at140 you may have cooked a bunch of the fat out.  Did you have a puddle of grease under the bacon when you pulled it?


It was dripping quite a bit. From what i have read and witnessed, fat starts to render between 80 and 90 degrees. I have cold smoked BBB but i found it it was terribly hard to slice on my slicer unless it was frozen. It took me all day to slice up my last batch. When I take it to 140, it slices well at refer temp. I cold smoked this batch for hours before i kicked on the propane and ramped up the heat. My smokehouse was running around 195 when i was bringing it up to temp.


----------



## ak1 (Mar 12, 2011)

IMO, you should not have compared this to BBB. Don't forget, belly bacon has much more fat, and fat doesn't freeze like muscle tissue does. I find that I can take a slab of belly bacon out of the freezer & slice it, where I can't do that with cuts that are mostly muscle tissue.  I think Al may be right, you may have cooked a lot of the fat out. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but what you may find is that the bacon may fry up quicker than it normally would.
 


Pit 4 Brains said:


> It was dripping quite a bit. From what i have read and witnessed, fat starts to render between 80 and 90 degrees. I have cold smoked BBB but i found it it was terribly hard to slice on my slicer unless it was frozen. It took me all day to slice up my last batch. When I take it to 140, it slices well at refer temp. I cold smoked this batch for hours before i kicked on the propane and ramped up the heat. My smokehouse was running around 195 when i was bringing it up to temp.


----------



## alblancher (Mar 12, 2011)

If you where running your smokehouse at 195 you simply precooked the bacon.  I'm sure it will still be delicious just not what you are used to when you think of bacon.  I slice a lot of bacon and it really should be in the freezer for a couple of hours before slicing.  Like AK said belly doesn't freeze as the same way as leaner cuts.

Your bacon looks nice, just cooked a bit.

Al


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 12, 2011)

AK1 said:


> IMO, you should not have compared this to BBB. Don't forget, belly bacon has much more fat, and fat doesn't freeze like muscle tissue does. I find that I can take a slab of belly bacon out of the freezer & slice it, where I can't do that with cuts that are mostly muscle tissue.  I think Al may be right, you may have cooked a lot of the fat out. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but what you may find is that the bacon may fry up quicker than it normally would.


If it cooks a tad faster it will be a good thing. My kids tug at my shorts while I'm cooking my bbb since I cook it so long. Like I said, this is my first run at a belly, so It's all learning now. I am gaining more control and confidence with my smokehouse though.

Thanks for the replies AK and Al..


----------



## chefrob (Mar 12, 2011)

pete, i have found that fat starts to render around 125 and thats where i take my BBB. if ya ever need help slicing anything i'll be glad to help.........i do get paid in bacon!


----------



## chefrob (Mar 12, 2011)

......and good lookin bacon btw!


----------



## ak1 (Mar 12, 2011)

You are most welcome. Let us know how it turned out.


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 13, 2011)

Looks real nice, but I agree on your temps (195˚) being a bit too high.

Out of all of the different internal temps I have removed belly Bacons at, I liked the ones between 120˚ and 128˚ the best.

I remove the rind before I do anything, if my butcher didn't remove it already.

I never hung any of my bellies, but I would suspect that a lot of the distortion is from rendering a bit more fat than usual.

All of that being said, I'll bet it tastes absolutely magnificent !!!!!

Bear


----------



## SmokinAl (Mar 13, 2011)

Man all I gotta say is this was one intense thread!


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 13, 2011)

SmokinAl said:


> Man all I gotta say is this was one intense thread!




We don't want you getting bored on us!







Bear


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 13, 2011)

SmokinAl said:


> Man all I gotta say is this was one intense thread!


No kidding! I didn't mean to throw fuel on any fire but there is obviously some different opinions out there, which is good.

I tried to slice some this morning but my slicer knife is just to darn dull and i get alot of pulldown. I need to get some new stones and get it rigged up. I may have to move my chute a little closer to the knife as well. That being said, I cut a few slices for this mornings breakfast, fried it up and presented it to the fam. They liked it, it produced some good rendered fat , and had a nice sweet flavor to it. Now don't bust my spheres about pics 'cause i had a hungry crowd and a dirty slicer to deal with. I'm gonna hand slice a hunk for the week and post up pics of that.

As for the learning curve, there's no doubt I shouldn't have raised the temp so high. I like to run my bbb to 140 but it just isn't the thing to do with belly. It cold smoked for hours between 88 and 95 degrees. The bacon IT was 88 when I ramped up the smoker heat. I guess I shoulda left it alone. Ohh well.

Comparing the cost of butts to bellies, I think I'll be stickin to the BBB for a while! Besides, If i have an extra butt in the freezer, I can always do some pulled pork or smoked but or even sausage.

More pics to follow...


----------



## chefrob (Mar 13, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> Comparing the cost of butts to bellies, I think I'll be stickin to the BBB for a while!


and that's why i have not gotten to do bellies yet...............


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 13, 2011)

chefrob said:


> and that's why i have not gotten to do bellies yet...............


If you see butts on sale, please let me know. I don't get their circulars and I don't have the time to check all the stores for promos online. I would like to bank up the deep freeze with some butts.


----------



## chefrob (Mar 14, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> If you see butts on sale, please let me know. I don't get their circulars and I don't have the time to check all the stores for promos online. I would like to bank up the deep freeze with some butts.


you got it pete!


----------



## alblancher (Mar 14, 2011)

Bellies aren't to expensive if you buy them by the case of three.  Your local butcher should be able to help you out.  I recently paid $ 1.60 lb for unskinned.  I think it was about 60 lbs in a case.

Al


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 14, 2011)

alblancher said:


> Bellies aren't to expensive if you buy them by the case of three.  Your local butcher should be able to help you out.  I recently paid $ 1.60 lb for unskinned.  I think it was about 60 lbs in a case.
> 
> Al


Maybe that price in LA, but not here. We used to have more livestock here in the valley but urban growth has reduced it to scattered dairies and one or two chicken/egg farms.


----------



## chefrob (Mar 14, 2011)

the last place i saw them was at rest/depot for a little over $3/lb..............


----------



## pops6927 (Mar 15, 2011)

I tried posting a couple times but with my hand I wiped out the posts hitting the wrong key combinations.

I use a digital postal scale from:

http://www.rightonscales.com/web/home/

This one specifically:

http://www.rightonscales.com/web/ultra50.htm








It does ounces, ounces/lbs and grams and has a pull out face for large items and can weigh 50 lbs.  I use it to measure seasonings as well as weigh buckets.


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm flabergasted!! What an awesome scale! Now i'm going to look at the price..

I've been busier than a one-armed wallpaper hanger the last few days so I haven't sliced the bacon yet..


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 16, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> I'm flabergasted!! What an awesome scale! Now i'm going to look at the price..
> 
> I've been busier than a one-armed wallpaper hanger the last few days so I haven't sliced the bacon yet..




That scale is really something, isn't it!

That's the one I always refer people to.

Every time I have to duck to read my scale I think of the one Pops has!

Bear


----------



## alelover (Mar 16, 2011)

I could weigh grain on that one. I think I need to go ask the wife if I can buy one more thing.


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 16, 2011)

alelover said:


> I could weigh grain on that one. I think I need to go ask the wife if I can buy one more thing.


Yet another usage (if i ever get into doing my own mash).


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 19, 2011)

Well here's a little sliced up for this morning's breakfast. I really need to get my slicer sharpened!


----------



## chefrob (Mar 19, 2011)

looks damn good pete!


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 19, 2011)

That looks beautiful, Pete!

Must have been a GREAT breakfast!

Thanks,

Bear


----------



## alelover (Mar 19, 2011)

That looks awesome. Nice and meaty


----------



## SmokinAl (Mar 19, 2011)

Looks great Pete! Your knife skills are excellent!


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanx all! It does make for a tasty breakfast I have alot of sweet smoked bacon grease out of it.. Can't wait to make some biscuits and gravy with it!


----------



## chefrob (Mar 19, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> ... I have alot of sweet smoked bacon grease out of it.


i use that stuff for everything.........


----------



## meateater (Mar 19, 2011)

That's some fat bacon right there! Store bought....PATOOOOEYYY


----------



## pit 4 brains (Mar 20, 2011)

chefrob said:


> i use that stuff for everything.........


Ohh yeah.. Mom always had a can of bacon grease in the fridge and I still do the same..

 




meateater said:


> That's some fat bacon right there! Store bought....PATOOOOEYYY


I still get some from the butcher counter once in a while, but never in a package again if i can avoid it!


----------



## SmokinAl (Mar 20, 2011)

Pit 4 Brains said:


> Ohh yeah.. Mom always had a can of bacon grease in the fridge and I still do the same..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a Mason jar in our fridge with bacon grease right now. I know how bad it is for you, but a fried egg basted in bacon grease is to die for. Once in a while I think it's OK. My Mom used to make eggs that way all the time.


----------

