# Baby Back fail x 2



## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

Hey there,
 I have a Masterbuilt pro 30 inch electric smoker.   I’m new to smoking but I’ve been grilling for years .   So my first two attempts at smoking baby back’s in my opinion have been fails.  I noticed that I had to cut the racks in half both times otherwise the meat would be touching the sides of the smoker.   Both times ,  I removed the membranes and liberally rubbed on both sides of the ribs covered them in saran wrap and put them in the fridge overnight .   The first time I tried was the 221 method , apple juice in liquid pan, smoked 2 hours, wrapped in foil with a little apple juice 2 hours, last hour with bbq sauce.   Ribs were not tender at all (225). Yesterday, 3 racks (again cut in half for fit) using 321 method.   This time the rub I used was three little pigs, apple cider in pan and a little in foil during the 2 hours. They tasted great but again by no means falling off the bone and were a bit tough.  What am I doing wrong????


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## JJS (Jul 16, 2019)

What are you using to monitor the temp in your smoker? 

First thing that comes to mind is you are running lower than 225


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

Just the probe that came with it.  I made jerky with London Broil the other day and it was perfect


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jul 16, 2019)

Tough ribs equals under cookered ribs.
I too suspect your temp is lower than 225.


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

I use my iPad with the Bluetooth and with or without the probe it fluctuates between 220-230 depending on when the element comes on


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

SecondHandSmoker said:


> Tough ribs equals under cookered ribs.
> I too suspect your temp is lower than 225.


How do I calibrate or get a accurate temp?


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

mrbbqnewbie said:


> I use my iPad with the Bluetooth and with or without the probe it fluctuates between 220-230 depending on when the element comes on


Or so it says


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jul 16, 2019)

mrbbqnewbie said:


> How do I calibrate or get a accurate temp?



You'll want to get a separate thermometer/probe set up to see exactly what the actual temp is inside of the smoker.
Then adjust the smoker's controller setpoint until the separate thermometer reaches your desired temperature. 
Most electric smokers are inaccurate.
Let's say you set it for 230 degrees but the actual temp is 210 degrees which is a very common occurance.


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

I’ll try that thanks!  Might call Masterbuilt, from what I’ve read if they send a new controller and sensors, might work too.  I think I bought the wrong smoker


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 16, 2019)

One; you really want a seperate thermal probe. Built in ones for smokers are unreliable at the best of times.

Two: Don't bother with water in the water pan of a MES, or any liquid. It retains alot of moisture and can slow down the cooking process etc.

Three: I'm not sure if you mean you got an IT of 225f or the smoker was at 225f. But you want to run ribs the smoker hotter then 225f until there is an even temperature inside. <Weather depending I've had to go up to 240f to get 225f inside the smoker>. It automatically stops heating when it registers 225f. That can mean all of a few inches inside are at 225f and the rest are at 215f.

I also suggest running the ribs naked, no messing about with foiling etc. Just sauced if desired during the last hour. <I used to do 3-2-1 and it was really just a hassle for no real benefit compared to running them naked in the smoker>


Edit: Replacing controllers don't change the aspect that the sensors them selves can only detect the part of the smoker they are in. Even stickburners etc all have hot and 'cold' spots. It's a manner of learning your smoker. Every one will always be a different beast.


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## SmokinVOLfan (Jul 16, 2019)

The others are steering you in the right direction. Get a separate probe thermometer. The one is the MES is garbage. Amazon has some great deals right now on Thermo-pro and Inkbird units. I have both and both are great.

Are you running the MES with an extension cord? That too will throw temps off and you aren't smoking at what you think you are and what is showing up.

Your ribs are underdone. If you are looking for fall of the bone then you want to get them to 200+ between the bones. And you will want to foil. After the 2-2-1 check the temp between the bones if they aren't at the 200 range then keep rolling the smoke until you get there.


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jul 16, 2019)

mrbbqnewbie said:


> I’ll try that thanks!  Might call Masterbuilt, from what I’ve read if they send a new controller and sensors, might work too.  I think I bought the wrong smoker



Yeah, verify what the actual temp is inside of the smoker. 
Do this a few times with the smoker empty. 
Let the smoker cool down completely bewteen test runs.
This way if and when you call Masterbuilt, you'll have some ammo.

Edit:

What makes you think you bought the wrong smoker?


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## sauced (Jul 16, 2019)

Some really great advice and nothing I could add, but clearly sounds like the ribs were under done.


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## pineywoods (Jul 16, 2019)

As said you need another thermometer to check the one that's built in. Get it then test it to make sure it's accurate, this can be done in by boiling some water and then carefully as in gloves or tongs and place just the last inch or two of the probe into the water and see what temp it shows.
Baby back ribs using the 2-2-1 method will be fall of the bone tender if the smoker is running 225 and you add some liquid in the foil stage. I usually use squeeze butter and some honey when going into foil but many things will work including apple juice. If you want to baste with bbq sauce do it the last 30-45 minutes this still gives time for the sauce to set but reduces the chance of the sauce burning as most sauces contain a lot of sugar and burn easy.
As for apple juice in the water pan that has been debated to death here but the general thoughts are that it does not help and water will work just as well with no difference in taste.
Gee I type slow I see others also posted while I was typing but some good advice given. I do disagree with the statement that foiling doesn't change anything it most certainly does it allows them to braise while foiled with liquid. Try lots of different ways and figure out what suits your tastes.


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## noboundaries (Jul 16, 2019)

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__ noboundaries
__ Apr 28, 2017






Buy one of these at your grocery store for $5-$6. Put in on a shelf in your smoker. Turn on your electric smoker set to 225F on the controller, no water in the pan, no smoke either, and let it run for 30 minutes or so to preheat. Check the temp on the grocery store gauge. Make a note of the temp. Crank the heat up to 250F for 30 minutes and record the temp. Then repeat at 275F.

Leaving the temp at 275F, add a quart of water to the water pan. Close the door and let it sit for 30 minutes. Check the gauge.


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

SecondHandSmoker said:


> Yeah, verify what the actual temp is inside of the smoker.
> Do this a few times with the smoker empty.
> Let the smoker cool down completely bewteen test runs.
> This way if and when you call Masterbuilt, you'll have some ammo.
> ...


Just some of the reviews with Bluetooth connection etc....I’ve not had any big issues with that though.  What is your opinion of Traeger?


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

noboundaries said:


> 016.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tried a digital stick probe that I slid through the gasket in the back where the plug in prob goes....it was 5 degrees lower, so about 225....then suddenly went to 214 up and down a little...I’ll get one like you pictured


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jul 16, 2019)

mrbbqnewbie said:


> Just some of the reviews with Bluetooth connection etc....I’ve not had any big issues with that though.  What is your opinion of Traeger?



Bluetooth is nice but it's range is limited and affected by walls etc etc.

As for Traeger,  I hear both good and bad.  You could do a search of the forums to get a better idea if you want to go with the pellet pooper route or not.


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## Bearcarver (Jul 16, 2019)

mrbbqnewbie said:


> I’ll try that thanks!  Might call Masterbuilt, from what I’ve read if they send a new controller and sensors, might work too.  I think I bought the wrong smoker




There's nothing wrong with your Smoker, other than the built in Temp sensor.
All you need is a Digital Wireless set of Therms, like the "Maverick ET-732".

Here's something to help, but you need that set of Therms, or something similar:
*Baby Back Ribs*

Bear


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## zwiller (Jul 16, 2019)

Great info but I will add that baby backs (and all ribs) I get here are cut very thick and way thicker than you'd get at a chain like TGI Fridays.  Half a rack of KC ribs and I am stuffed.  So they take much longer to cook. 

I have long abandoned any time based method and go by IT.  200F for me but 205F for FOB.  Smoke one day and chill.  Sear a bit and sauce on a hot grill when ready to eat.  Grilling is absolutely essential for ribs to me.


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## mrbbqnewbie (Jul 16, 2019)

zwiller said:


> Great info but I will add that baby backs (and all ribs) I get here are cut very thick and way thicker than you'd get at a chain like TGI Fridays.  Half a rack of KC ribs and I am stuffed.  So they take much longer to cook.
> 
> I have long abandoned any time based method and go by IT.  200F for me but 205F for FOB.  Smoke one day and chill.  Sear a bit and sauce on a hot grill when ready to eat.  Grilling is absolutely essential for ribs to me.


Makes sense, I bought a 3 pack of Baby Backs from Costco and they were massive !


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## gmc2003 (Jul 16, 2019)

Baby backs aren't what they used to be. Lately they have been leaving a big chunk of the loin on them. You'll have to adjust you cooking method to accommodate for the loin on top. Someone must have thought it was a good idea.

Chris


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jul 16, 2019)

gmc2003 said:


> Someone must have thought it was a good idea.



It is a marketing ploy.
They'll leave that extra loin flap on and then pump 'em full of some sort of sodium phosphate concoction so they can be labeled as "extra meaty". 
Who doesn't want extra meaty BBs, right??


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## zwiller (Jul 16, 2019)

I was originally attracted to BB cause I didn't have to trim but ever since learning to KC spares, we actually prefer them over BB.  That said, these are also still meatier but not as much as BB.  I had real problems with ribs until I went IT.  I think a LOT guys who take up smoking and use 321 or time instead IT and eventually give up because of inferior results.  Learning proper IT pull and TBS is like 80-90% of your results and this is not just ribs, but everything you smoke.  No rub or "secret" ingredient can make up for it.  Lately I leave the remote in the box and just use my instant.  Side benefit is that I am also probing for tenderness.  Love this thing to death.


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## schlotz (Jul 16, 2019)

Yup, measuring IT for doneness works. Now this assumes you get the probe in just the right position which some find a bit difficult given the lack of thickness.  There are other methods as well.  Grab the first third of the rack with tongs and see if it bends approx 45 deg with cracks showing across the meat.  Then there is the toothpick. It should go in, like it was butter. Back to temps. Most built-in thermometers are notorious for being inaccurate. Many only rely on known calibrated thermometers. Like Bear said, get yourself a reporting therm like the Maverick.


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## noboundaries (Jul 16, 2019)

I've got that ThermoPro TP03. Works first as a probe, second as a temp check. 

I switched to spares, too, a long time ago. I can buy boneless pork loins for $1.68 / lb, + or - twenty to thirty cents. I can buy untrimmed spares for $0.98 to $1.88 / lb pretty much year round. I saw $2.28 / lb a few times this past Spring, which is usually the price for SLCs. I passed on by until their "sell by" date, when they dropped a buck a pound.

BBs are never less than $2.98 / lb in my area, and usually a dollar to three dollars more per pound. It's pork with bones. Yeah, yeah, supply/demand, blah blah. My wife was a diehard BB lover until I perfected my spares. Now she knows, when I say "ribs" I'm referring to spares.

I've been debating pulling a couple butts out of the freezer for this weekend. I think I'll do spare ribs instead!


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## Bearcarver (Jul 16, 2019)

schlotz said:


> Yup, measuring IT for doneness works. Now this assumes you get the probe in just the right position which some find a bit difficult given the lack of thickness.  There are other methods as well.  Grab the first third of the rack with tongs and see if it bends approx 45 deg with cracks showing across the meat.  Then there is the toothpick. It should go in, like it was butter. Back to temps. Most built-in thermometers are notorious for being inaccurate. Many only rely on known calibrated thermometers. Like Bear said, get yourself a reporting therm like the Maverick.




Yup, probing Ribs never worked for me.
Some people think it works, but if you take it out & stick it in real close to where you stuck it the first time you can get a big difference.
And again & again & again---All different.
That's why I don't trust it. I want to get the same thing each time.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Jul 16, 2019)

noboundaries said:


> I've got that ThermoPro TP03. Works first as a probe, second as a temp check.
> 
> I switched to spares, too, a long time ago. I can buy boneless pork loins for $1.68 / lb, + or - twenty to thirty cents. I can buy untrimmed spares for $0.98 to $1.88 / lb pretty much year round. I saw $2.28 / lb a few times this past Spring, which is usually the price for SLCs. I passed on by until their "sell by" date, when they dropped a buck a pound.
> 
> ...




Same here!
BabyBacks are always too expensive around here.
And I quit buying St Louis, and I never trim Spares to St Louis.
I just leave them as is & remove the membrane.
They stay juicier than St Louis cut. IMO

Bear


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## noboundaries (Jul 16, 2019)

I don't even bother with the membrane any more. In the WSM I put that side toward the heat. The membrane becomes tissue paper thin by the end of the smoke. Comes right off.


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## JckDanls 07 (Jul 16, 2019)

Let me add..  I see where you said you stuck a probe in the hole of the smoker...  The problem with that is...  the tip of the probe is just inside the smoker an inch or two (against the wall) ...  the heat travels up the sides (wall) of the smoker and hits the probe... this is telling you that what is coming up the wall is much hotter than what it is out in the center of the smoker where the meat is...

Myself..  I would not go with the cheap dial thermometer shown above as you have to open the door every time to read it.. every time you open the door you lose your heat..  it takes 15 - 20 minutes to come back up to temp..  now you've lost that much cooking time..  and when you are trying to cook by time (3-2-1... 2-2-1) you have to account for that lost time...  and then when smoke is applied you won't be able to see through the glass to read it...

For these reasons I believe the wired probe type therms (probe placed at grate level in the center next to meat) are the way to go ... pretested in boiling water as Piney mentioned ...


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## Bearcarver (Jul 17, 2019)

noboundaries said:


> I don't even bother with the membrane any more. In the WSM I put that side toward the heat. The membrane becomes tissue paper thin by the end of the smoke. Comes right off.




Yup, but that doesn't happen to the Membrane in an MES---No direct heat.
I just peel it off. I hate the mouth feel of rubbery cooked Membrane.

Bear


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## SmokinVOLfan (Jul 17, 2019)

Speaking of baby backs...if anyone has a Kroger's in their area they are selling back ribs for $1.67 lb Friday and Saturday only. Food lion has STL's for $1.77 lb


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## Carrie Waltz (Jul 17, 2019)

I'm sure you under cooked them!
We always leave ribs for 6 hours in my parents' electric smoker and they always perfect.


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