# WS-1510ELPM  set-up help



## FreshGround (Sep 29, 2022)

I have my new Auber ws-1510elpm pid and I'm having a little trouble figuring out the set-up.

What I've managed to do, so far, is to plug in the sensor and enter a program of 250* and 120 minutes that I will use for the initial burn-in of my new Masterbuilt analog smoker.  I understand how to program the 6 step cooking profile.

What perplexes me is the system parameter stuff.  These are the ones you get to with the 166 access code.  They say that the default is set up for sous vide cooking, but I will be using it to control my smoker.  But they really don't say much about the changes that should be made to the default settings for controlling a smoker.  I also don't really understand what the auto tune is all about.  Do I need to do this?

Next are the parameters that use the 155 access code.  Other than having the mode set to PID, I don't know if I have to mess with these, and if so, what to set them at.

Next are the parameters that use the 188  access code.  These seem to be alarm parameters.  Do I just leave them at the default values?

I think I get how to save and recall recipes, and I think I get how to get into and out of Single-Step mode.

And finally, since I'm in N. America the default settings of b for the Digital filter function should be fine, yes?

Thanks for any advice or guidance anyone can give me.  I have a feeling that once I get this parameter stuff and auto tune, if I need to do that, set up this will actually be pretty easy to use, but I need to get over these initial hurdles.


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## dr k (Sep 29, 2022)

_Out of ther box it's P7, I 150, D 600. Write it down and try other settings. This setting and autotune was terrible so sharing helps a lot. I have a Mes 40 and like P1, I 0, D 0 for brisket, ribs and butts at 275. But fish and sausage ramping up from 120 or whatever  at P3, I 0 D 0 or Chopsaws P7, I 208, D 210 on code 166. On the Mes 40, Chopsaw'sI above is great at P1, I 208, D 210.  I went to the code at the end of the manual and set it for single mode so no minutes to enter. I use my own timer to tell me to ramp etc. _


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## Brokenhandle (Sep 30, 2022)

Don't remember what I have my settings at, it's been too long since I used mine, have more smokers to use now! But I never did the auto tune on it, using it in masterbuilt 30 analog and could keep temps within a couple degrees. Think it was 

 tallbm
  that told me to read the directions standing on my head drinking a beer and they made more sense! 

Ryan


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## chopsaw (Sep 30, 2022)

Great info Kurt . You have a lot of knowledge on the set up of these . 
I don't save any profiles , but I do have it set up for 4 steps when doing sausage . Dry cycle , then it steps twice for smoke , then steps one more time for cook temp . 
So , I leave the last 3 settings as they are for time and temp .
I adjust the time and temp of the first setting depending on what I'm doing . So if I use it to do a pork butt I'll set it at 250 and just crank the time up . 
Then if I want to do sausage I just reset the first temp to 120 for 2 hours . That way the rest are already set and I don't have to change them .


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## zwiller (Sep 30, 2022)

This is the main reason I am putting off installing mine.  I am little worried over the settings.  I hope since mine is the wifi I can just use my phone until I learn it.


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## tallbm (Sep 30, 2022)

FreshGround said:


> I have my new Auber ws-1510elpm pid and I'm having a little trouble figuring out the set-up.
> 
> What I've managed to do, so far, is to plug in the sensor and enter a program of 250* and 120 minutes that I will use for the initial burn-in of my new Masterbuilt analog smoker.  I understand how to program the 6 step cooking profile.
> 
> ...


Hi there and welcome!

You should only have to change the 166 settings.  These control how your Auber will ramp up temp without trying to overshoot too much on initial heat up, hold temp tightly, and recover from temp loss when the door is opened.

I think 

 chopsaw
 's values P=7, I=208, and D=210 should work.  If the smoker is a little slow to heat up initially then a stronger P=5 or an even stronger P=3 will fix that.  Just know that as you lower P, the overshoot on initial heat up will get bigger.  Not really an issue for most though.

All other settings besides 166 can be left as is.  Simple!

Lets know if this works for you and congrats on upgrading to a PID controller.  Once you punch in those settings you should never have to worry about them again  :)


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## tallbm (Sep 30, 2022)

zwiller said:


> This is the main reason I am putting off installing mine.  I am little worried over the settings.  I hope since mine is the wifi I can just use my phone until I learn it.


I believe the wifi version lets you set these super easily.  That's what has been reported.  In any case, once you set values that give you the acceptable performance you want, you will never have to mess with them again :)


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## chopsaw (Sep 30, 2022)

tallbm said:


> Just know that as you lower P, the overshoot on initial heat up will get bigger.


Here's where the value of I comes into play and the fine tuning starts . I understand most aren't worried about it , but the ability is there . Lowering the value of I will increase the heat up time without over running set temp .

Edit : I need to rephrase this . Lowering I will increase the effect of P , speeding up the time to set temp . Makes P more aggressive .


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## FreshGround (Sep 30, 2022)

I think I am starting to understand a little.  Ironically, since I started out thinking about a Smokin-it #1 before switching to the Masterbuild analog, the most understandable discussion I found, until I came back here, was on the Auber forum on the Smokin-it website.

My plan now is to run an autotune and see how the values compare to some of those given there and here.  It's a new smoker, so does it matter if I do the burn-in/seasoning before or after the autotune?  For the autotune I plan to use a foil pan with landscaping rocks and ice water as my 'meat'.

Thanks to all for your advice.  It's not nearly as daunting as it was initially.


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## chopsaw (Sep 30, 2022)

Do your burn in with the stock controller . 


FreshGround said:


> For the autotune I plan to use a foil pan with landscaping rocks and ice water as my 'meat'.


Do as you wish , but I'm not one for setting these up under load . 
Why ? 
Because how many times do you put cold meat in your smoker before turning it on ? 
For me that answer would be never . 
I have a method for doing this that works if people follow it .


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## zwiller (Sep 30, 2022)

S*** got real tonight.  Wiring was a breeze,  THANKS 

 tallbm
 for the writeup!!!  Connecting wifi another story.  2.4G required and have 5G.  I NEVER have the latest or greatest internet stuff so kinda bummed.  On the plus side 325F...  Will report back.


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## chopsaw (Sep 30, 2022)

You should have 2.4 if you have 5g . 2.4 was before 5g.  Should just be a setting . 
You run that at 325 you're gonna have a fire at some point .


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## Winterrider (Sep 30, 2022)

I don't understand the half of it what it is capable of. I set the temp, and change manually when my timer tells me. But the temperature set point remains quite steady. Love it !


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## zwiller (Sep 30, 2022)

Just killed it.  Ran like 2hrs and last hour ended up seeing EXACTLY 325F for an hour.  WOW.  That's impressive.  

I felt cabinet a few places and top got a little warm in one place but not anything that scared me.  325F for like 45m will get my chicken breasts done and crispy skin.  No plans to run anything else that high and I am well aware of the risks.   Insert disclaimer here LOL.  

Wifi I will figure out.  Have an older router but hope I don't have to play with it router setup each run.  I am SUPER impressed with the build quality and info online so think once I get her dialed in I will be fine.  Worst case I keep the old router plugged in.


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## FreshGround (Sep 30, 2022)

chopsaw said:


> Do your burn in with the stock controller .
> 
> Do as you wish , but I'm not one for setting these up under load .
> Why ?
> ...


OK, I 'm not sure if I am following.  Are you saying not to do the autotune at all and use someone's values or to do the autotune but without any kind of load or a different load inside of it.  

If you could point to a thread that describes your method that works it would be great.  I went back over your messages in this thread and didn't see it?  

I have no illusions about my knowledge or abilities in this and I'm not trying to challenge or argue with anyone, particularly not with folks like you and 

 tallbm
 who have tons of experience and have been generous about sharing your knowledge.  I appreciate all the good knowledge I've gleaned as I've been taking these first steps on my smoking journey.  

As far as my plan, which by no means is set in stone, I didn't come up with the notion of the autotune with a load myself, I read it in messages on the Smokin-it board.  But I have an open mind and am just here to learn.  So if there's a better way I'd like to know about it.

Thanks for your help and your patience.
Rich


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## chopsaw (Oct 1, 2022)

FreshGround said:


> Are you saying not to do the autotune at all and use someone's values or to do the autotune but without any kind of load or a different load inside of it.


Auto tune didn't work for me , but try it and see what you think . 
You can try someone's numbers , but you have an analog smoker right ? Without insulation your numbers will probably different . 
I don't agree with setting up under load , but that doesn't mean I'm right . 
To me it makes more sense to dial it in empty , and here's why . 
Like I said above I don't put cold meat in before I turn it on , and I don't cook the same thing every time . 

So set it up in a constant condition . Up to temp , maintaining temp and recovery . 
That way when a cold mass is added it will react to the difference and seek to become constant again . If that makes sense . 

Thing is this . We have smokers that can have a 30 degree temp swing in either direction from the factory . So setting it up in  on / off  and staying within 10 degrees of set temp is way better than stock . 
I just decided to get mine dialed in . It's easy to chase settings on these , but it's just as easy to dial them in if you start the process at the beginning and work through the settings . Up to temp = P . Control over / under run =I . Recovery =D . 
Start off set in an on / off condition . That might be how you like it . 

I'll look for the link to the thread I posted the set up method in .


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## chopsaw (Oct 1, 2022)

F
 FreshGround
  Good info in this thread . Starts as a question about an Inkbird controller , but there's some Auber info as well . 
I talk about how I set mine up in post 9 . Understanding what the letters control and what the values mean and how to increase / decrease the action is key . 







						PID controller - Inkbird ITC-106VH
					

Hi everyone, i am new to the forum, I should have found this before!! So many things to read here..  So here is why i came for at first.. I have a bradley smoker, which i made a home made PID to control the temperature.  I have been running it with my actual setup for 2 years, and i finaly took...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## normanaj (Oct 1, 2022)

tallbm said:


> I think
> 
> chopsaw
> 's values P=7, I=208, and D=210 should work. If the smoker is a little slow to heat up initially then a stronger P=5 or an even stronger P=3 will fix that. Just know that as you lower P, the overshoot on initial heat up will get bigger. Not really an issue for most though.
> ...



Bookmarked this! Along with your simple rewire setting up an Auber should be easy. At this point I may not wait for the stock controller to die and just do it.


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## chopsaw (Oct 1, 2022)

normanaj said:


> At this point I may not wait for the stock controller to die and just do it.


Norm , it's night and day difference .


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## tallbm (Oct 1, 2022)

zwiller said:


> S*** got real tonight.  Wiring was a breeze,  THANKS
> 
> tallbm
> for the writeup!!!  Connecting wifi another story.  2.4G required and have 5G.  I NEVER have the latest or greatest internet stuff so kinda bummed.  On the plus side 325F...  Will report back.
> ...


Nice that you bit the bullet and set it all up.  Not to bad aye?! :D




zwiller said:


> Just killed it.  Ran like 2hrs and last hour ended up seeing EXACTLY 325F for an hour.  WOW.  That's impressive.
> 
> I felt cabinet a few places and top got a little warm in one place but not anything that scared me.  325F for like 45m will get my chicken breasts done and crispy skin.  No plans to run anything else that high and I am well aware of the risks.   Insert disclaimer here LOL.
> 
> Wifi I will figure out.  Have an older router but hope I don't have to play with it router setup each run.  I am SUPER impressed with the build quality and info online so think once I get her dialed in I will be fine.  Worst case I keep the old router plugged in.


I have mine rigged so I can run 325F for poultry cooks and I don't go over 4 hours.  Mine holds dead on and my PID temp probe is always under the center of the lowest smoker rack so the PID can react the fastest.  No reaching 325F at the top of the smoker just bottom to around the lowest rack.  This should keep you from burning up any insulation in getting higher than you think it is at any spot in the smoker.


Also 

 chopsaw
 is correct on the router.  Maybe yours doesnt do both 2.4 and 5.0 at the same time or something squirrely like that or one of the bands is shut off in the router page settings.  No idea lol.



FreshGround said:


> OK, I 'm not sure if I am following.  Are you saying not to do the autotune at all and use someone's values or to do the autotune but without any kind of load or a different load inside of it.
> 
> If you could point to a thread that describes your method that works it would be great.  I went back over your messages in this thread and didn't see it?
> 
> ...


No matter which way you go you won't hurt anything.
Feel free to autotune and see what you get.  Feel free to season before or during autotune.  Autotune takes a while so it will likely run long enough to complete a seasoning anyhow.

Being an analog there may need to be some tinkering but chops settings and/or an autotune will tell you a lot once you turn it on and try something like a pork butt.  Do a big long smoke so you have time to tune if needed and then you will be dialed in for good :)


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## FreshGround (Oct 1, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Just killed it.  Ran like 2hrs and last hour ended up seeing EXACTLY 325F for an hour.  WOW.  That's impressive.
> 
> I felt cabinet a few places and top got a little warm in one place but not anything that scared me.  325F for like 45m will get my chicken breasts done and crispy skin.  No plans to run anything else that high and I am well aware of the risks.   Insert disclaimer here LOL.
> 
> Wifi I will figure out.  Have an older router but hope I don't have to play with it router setup each run.  I am SUPER impressed with the build quality and info online so think once I get her dialed in I will be fine.  Worst case I keep the old router plugged in.



Just out of curiosity, what values did you end up with?


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## zwiller (Oct 1, 2022)

I think I got it.  Tried a 2.4G extender and an old router and no dice (phone kept wanting the 5G and even turned it off).  Ended up calling my cable/ISP to sort it out.  Yes, have both 2.4G and 5G and had to rename them so I could use the 2.4G.  Kinda wild, I think we've been using 2.4G in the house...  We had some issues with streaming so gonna recheck everything and make sure all else is 5G. 

The wifi setup is sorta wonky and slow to me.  I can live with that if it stays solid.  I do NOT want to fooling with this stuff before a smoke.  

325F is like autoclean mode.  Really cleaned up the thing LOL.  

 tallbm
 EXACTLY what I am doing 325F middle shelf.  


F
 FreshGround
  Stock setting for that first run.  Took a LOOONG time to get to temp tho.  Playing with something close to Rich's in a few.  I have no idea how to tell if good or bad tho.  More to follow.  



 normanaj
  It was around this time last year I got mine and they ran a TG sale and was 15% off so I pulled trigger.


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## zwiller (Oct 1, 2022)

Been fooling with the wifi all day and not working well.   Not cool.


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## zwiller (Oct 2, 2022)

Got back down to basics this AM and have Auber setup inside near router.  Was convinced yesterday was a weak signal or interference issue.  Not much difference...  Decided to compare the details of Auber wifi settings vs router.  Tried a few things and not much help but noticed 802.11 was g/n on router and Auber shows 802.11 b/g/n.  Changed that and BIG improvement!  Been solid for near an hour now.  Hope that was it.  Will hook up later outside for another trial.  Then I need to figure out some wire management.


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## chopsaw (Oct 2, 2022)

Sam , not sure what you have going on , but if you have that running without a load it can cause an open loop condition . Even when attached to a load I read it should reach set temp in 90 minutes or less .


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## zwiller (Oct 2, 2022)

chopsaw said:


> Sam , not sure what you have going on , but if you have that running without a load it can cause an open loop condition . Even when attached to a load I read it should reach set temp in 90 minutes or less .


First off let me clarify.  Auber itself working perfectly but app was NOT.  IE set the Auber for 275F yesterday and plugged it in.  It proceeded to heat to said temp and held it for like 4-5 hours with 1-2deg variance AT WORST, mostly it was dead nuts.  Impressive.  All the while, the app was basically DOA.  I tried TONS of things to no avail. Basically, the app showed connected but really wasn't or would show waiting to connect.  On and off. In reality the app just did not work.  This meant I could not make changes nor create a log.  Just shut her down a few moments ago but ran the Auber (no load) to test app/connectivity and no issues!  That's 4 hours.  Hoping I got this now.  I think I am one of the few guys with the wifi model so I wanted to document my findings for the team.  Cliff notes: Auber is VERY picky with wifi setup and best to make sure settings match Auber's as much as possible.  Gonna fire it up outside for a real world test in a few.  BTW no idea how or why but the app sent a notification that smoker was under 100F.  That was pretty slick.  

Rich, not complaining, but the MES is definitely slower to heat up than stock but that's life, a bunch of tradeoffs.  Not horrible but just noticeable is all.  Need to research more but think you permanently mounted the heat sensor.  I need to reduce the clutter and cables once I think it's solid.


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## chopsaw (Oct 2, 2022)

I looked for the thread where another member has the same one with the same issues . Couldn't find it . 
I knew it was an app issue . 
Had mine go into open loop once . Didn't hurt it , but was a pain to get it back to acting right . 


zwiller said:


> not complaining, but the MES is definitely slower to heat up than stock


It's just a matter of settings between P and I .


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## chopsaw (Oct 2, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Need to research more but think you permanently mounted the heat sensor. I need to reduce the clutter and cables once I think it's solid.


Yeah . I used the mounting hardware from the original useless meat probe . I bought a spare sensor also . Stock MES cord on the right . Auber power cord on the left . Temp probe coiled up in a 4 " box with a blank cover . Keeps it clean . 





Therm probe keepers


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## tallbm (Oct 2, 2022)

zwiller said:


> First off let me clarify.  Auber itself working perfectly but app was NOT.  IE set the Auber for 275F yesterday and plugged it in.  It proceeded to heat to said temp and held it for like 4-5 hours with 1-2deg variance AT WORST, mostly it was dead nuts.  Impressive.  All the while, the app was basically DOA.  I tried TONS of things to no avail. Basically, the app showed connected but really wasn't or would show waiting to connect.  On and off. In reality the app just did not work.  This meant I could not make changes nor create a log.  Just shut her down a few moments ago but ran the Auber (no load) to test app/connectivity and no issues!  That's 4 hours.  Hoping I got this now.  I think I am one of the few guys with the wifi model so I wanted to document my findings for the team.  Cliff notes: Auber is VERY picky with wifi setup and best to make sure settings match Auber's as much as possible.  Gonna fire it up outside for a real world test in a few.  BTW no idea how or why but the app sent a notification that smoker was under 100F.  That was pretty slick.
> 
> Rich, not complaining, but the MES is definitely slower to heat up than stock but that's life, a bunch of tradeoffs.  Not horrible but just noticeable is all.  Need to research more but think you permanently mounted the heat sensor.  I need to reduce the clutter and cables once I think it's solid.
> 
> View attachment 644945



Once you get your connectivity issues ironed out it will be easy to tweak the P-I-D settings so it comes up to temp faster.
In short, lower the P value to something like 5 from where it is at.  That will do much better for initial ramp up, then report back on how much it overshoots and if the initial overshoot is an issue :)


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## zwiller (Oct 2, 2022)

Still having issues outside...  Tapping out for today.  Like I said tho, Auber working perfectly but no connectivity.  I am pretty knowlegeable of the stuff too.  Wifi distance not far at all.  GRRR.


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## chopsaw (Oct 3, 2022)

Finally found that old thread . He was having other issues , but might be something of interest in there . 





						Auber WS-1510H-W first impressions
					

Today I finished an overnight smoke on 20 lbs of bone in pork shoulders, first run with the Auber. Overall I like it, with a couple caveats so far.  1. I cannot get the alarm feature on the app to work. The controller sounds, but the app gives zero notification. Hopefully that can be fixed short...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## zwiller (Oct 3, 2022)

Thanks Rich.  I can tell you when I did have it connected in test it was WAY better than any other setup I have.  Better than the Inkbird wifi.  I plan to do a TON more testing and will update that thread with my results.  That notification I got was SLICK.  All that being said, I can tell already the app is nowhere near as customizable as I expected.  

In another thread it was suggested I uninstall the app and reboot phone and do a fresh install.  Great idea.  Plan to reach out to Auber if that does not help.  I actually installed the app a long time before I even got the controller so maybe something hinky about that.


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## FreshGround (Oct 5, 2022)

OK, so I did my burn-in for 2 hrs. and then used a pellet tube for an hour to put smoke into it.

Then the autotune.  Knowing that I could redo it if necessary I chose to do it with an empty smoker.  I set the program to 225 for 3 hours, and started the autotune.  When it was done (less than 2 hours), it maintained 225* steadily for an hour, so that seemed good.  My numbers, OTOH, seemed at variance with other numbers I've seen.  My numbers were:

P 57
I 259
d 67

Do these numbers make sense?  Am I ready to start smoking (first project will be smoked jerky) or should I redo the autotune with a load?


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## thikhh (Oct 6, 2022)

I think I am starting to understand a little. Ironically, since I started out thinking about a Smokin-it #1 before switching to the Masterbuild analog, the most understandable discussion I found, until I came back here, was on the Auber forum on the Smokin-it website.


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## tallbm (Oct 6, 2022)

FreshGround said:


> OK, so I did my burn-in for 2 hrs. and then used a pellet tube for an hour to put smoke into it.
> 
> Then the autotune.  Knowing that I could redo it if necessary I chose to do it with an empty smoker.  I set the program to 225 for 3 hours, and started the autotune.  When it was done (less than 2 hours), it maintained 225* steadily for an hour, so that seemed good.  My numbers, OTOH, seemed at variance with other numbers I've seen.  My numbers were:
> 
> ...


The P value seems a bit slow (lower number is faster than higher number).
I'll explain it using your numbers.

*When P hits within 57 degrees of your set temp it will begin to power down the heating element from 100% out put.*
So when Set temp at 257 and the smoker hits temp 201 then the PID will ramp element power down to like 98% total heat/power output.
The "I" and "D" values will try to kick in but also often take their ques from "P" making "P" the lead value to play with first.

When Smoker temp hits 230F the PID will have power output to 48%.

So with these numbers, every degree increase is about 1.8% decrease in the element power.

So when the smoker is at 256F degrees the PID will have element power/heat output at 1.8%

That may sound confusing but in short the closer you get to your set temp the greater the decrease in power output to the heating element.

So the higher your "P" value the earlier the ramp down of power to the heating element becomes.
A higher "P" value means longer time to ramp up and hit your set temp.

A lower "P" value like a 5 means that the at smoker set to 250F degrees will be 100% power output to a smoker temp of 245F then at 246F it will ramp down to 80% output (20% per degree in this case).

This can lead to some overshoot of the 250F set temp when the smoker is initially coming up to speed or after opening the door BUT that overshoot only happens in that case when the "I" and "D" values are turned well and your I-D values seem to be in the ballpark so I think they are ok.

In conclusion, if it takes a little bit of time to initially heat up or heat up after opening the door than simply decrease the "P" value to something like 10, 7, 5, 3, or some sensible value knowing how it behaves when you observe it as you use it.

I threw a lot of info at you here so be sure to ask any questions you have :)


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## zwiller (Oct 6, 2022)

Many thanks 

 tallbm
.  What are we aiming for?  Like 1+/- set temp or dead on or?  I think I read somewhere that the lower the target temp the harder for accuracy.  Curious if different PID parameters can be saved in the recipe/presets.


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## tallbm (Oct 6, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Many thanks
> 
> tallbm
> .  What are we aiming for?  Like 1+/- set temp or dead on or?  I think I read somewhere that the lower the target temp the harder for accuracy.  Curious if different PID parameters can be saved in the recipe/presets.


I would think +/- 1 would be good and dead one is highly likely.  Once set temp is hit then P kind of falls away as it's main job is the power and ramp up.  

"I" will then take over to tightly hold too set temp or around the set temp.

So lots of "I" values reported from low to mid 200's so I=259 is in the ballpark.  

Once you have your PID parameters set it is very unlikey you will have to touch them.

The fringe situations are usually going high heat and maintaining or low heat and maintaining.  There could be some improvement but in my experience It hasn't been needed.

In doing 160-180F smokes for jerky and such I don't really see any move from set temp, maybe 1-2 drop every now and again.  On 325F smokes I am dead on.
So you see the range is quite broad for me not to ever need to adjust my PID values.  
I live in TX so ambient temps would kinda cover temps 80-100F so can't really speak to that lol.


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## FreshGround (Oct 6, 2022)

tallbm said:


> The P value seems a bit slow (lower number is faster than higher number).
> I'll explain it using your numbers.
> 
> *When P hits within 57 degrees of your set temp it will begin to power down the heating element from 100% out put.*
> ...



So if I'm understanding you, the P is really significant for the time it takes the smoker to heat up initially, or when it's ramping from, say, 100 in C1 to 180 in C2.  But that once the target temp has been reached it is the I and the D that are responsible for maintaining the target temp +/- 1?

Would it be worthwhile to measure the effect by timing the smoker going from cold to 225 with P=57 and then letting it cool back down and timing it with P=7?  And if I do that would it be better to measure the time to get to the point it first hits 225 or the point where it settles down to 225?


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## chopsaw (Oct 6, 2022)

Did you look at the link I posted in this thread ?


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## FreshGround (Oct 6, 2022)

chopsaw said:


> Did you look at the link I posted in this thread ?


I did, but I don't think I am far up enough on the learning curve to make that much practical sense out of it.  Two days ago I knew absolutely nothing and the Auber manual was incomprehensible to me.  

So I reverted back to your earlier advice:



chopsaw said:


> Auto tune didn't work for me , but try it and see what you think .
> You can try someone's numbers , but you have an analog smoker right ? Without insulation your numbers will probably different .
> I don't agree with setting up under load , but that doesn't mean I'm right .
> To me it makes more sense to dial it in empty , and here's why .
> Like I said above I don't put cold meat in before I turn it on , and I don't cook the same thing every time .



Now I am just trying to understand the results better.


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## dr k (Oct 6, 2022)

Go to post #2 and the P 1, I 0 and D 0, then go to your manual and find this (senario P 7, I 0 and D 0).  This is what I did with my Mes 40 when the out of the box setting was terrible and auto tune was terrible. In P mode I and D at 0,  7 degrees below set temp is 7/7=1 full output solid green light, then 6 degrees below set point flashes and is 6/7, 5/7, 4/7 3/7 2/7 1/7 then (0/7off at set point.)  try it without values in I or D.  once you add values in I and D then this senario doesn't exist and will come out of full power below 7 degrees of set temp and takes longer to get to set temp.  When temp gets to the set temp the light goes out.  When the set temp is reached then drops below the set temp then it flashes at 1/7 which is too slow of an output response and the temp drops that's why I use a P 1, I 0 and D 0 for one degree below set temp is 1/1 = full output solid green light .5 degree below set temp flashes 50% and off at set temp even though the resolution is one degree increments it works in a fraction of a degree with P 1.  P 0 is an on off controller like the stock Mes controller no matter what value is in I and D so have a min of 1 in the P.  This zips you to your set temp with a load in 20 minutes and stabilizes in a couple cycles without screwing with getting to set temp in over an hour in the initial food warm up let alone preheating.  You're literally cutting out over an hour of initial waiting to get your smoker to initial set temp.  So P value should be in the single digits, then add in the I value like 208 and D 210 like Chopsaw if necessary.  I'm totally comfortable not having a value in the I or D cooking ribs, butts and brisket at 275 and my sensor is always at food level down through the top vent a couple inches off the side wall so I know that's the hottest spot in my smoker where my food is below the top vent which is the hottest spot in the smoker couple inches bellow the top vent where heat stacks like a water heater moving around trying to get out.  I didn't make this up it's in my ws1510 elpm manual and 2 hours after getting this PID years ago I've been zipping right to temp and holding within a couple degrees of set temp instead of staring at my PID saying when are you going to get to temp.


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## chopsaw (Oct 6, 2022)

I know it's over whelming , and too much info is hard to follow .
So I'll watch along , but won't comment so we don't overload you . If you have a question for me ask it .

Look over what Kurt posted in post 41 .

The reason I referred you back to the info I posted in the other thread is because I break out what the letters mean and do and how they are measured .

Like Kurt and myself have said , when adjusting P turn I and D to 0 . If you don't you won't know what the true effects of P are .


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## FreshGround (Oct 6, 2022)

chopsaw said:


> I know it's over whelming , and too much info is hard to follow .
> So I'll watch along , but won't comment so we don't overload you . If you have a question for me ask it .
> 
> Look over what Kurt posted in post 41 .
> ...


I appreciate your understanding, and you're right, I feel like I'm on info overload.  I think I need to get some hands on smoking on this thing so I can get a feel for it in practice.  Once I have some practical context I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.


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## dr k (Oct 6, 2022)

FreshGround said:


> I appreciate your understanding, and you're right, I feel like I'm on info overload.  I think I need to get some hands on smoking on this thing so I can get a feel for it in practice.  Once I have some practical context I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.


I read the manual online, plus the CD came with the 1510, a year before pulling the trigger. In the manual they isolated the P, the I and D explanations in there own paragraphs and that made me wonder about the P mode in that paragraph bc thats the only help in the manual other than outta the box settings and autotune. I got lucky when I just tried it and stuck with 1. 0.  0.


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## tallbm (Oct 6, 2022)

FreshGround said:


> So if I'm understanding you, the P is really significant for the time it takes the smoker to heat up initially, or when it's ramping from, say, 100 in C1 to 180 in C2.  But that once the target temp has been reached it is the I and the D that are responsible for maintaining the target temp +/- 1?
> 
> Would it be worthwhile to measure the effect by timing the smoker going from cold to 225 with P=57 and then letting it cool back down and timing it with P=7?  And if I do that would it be better to measure the time to get to the point it first hits 225 or the point where it settles down to 225?


Yep you are understanding me correctly about P and the time it takes the smoker to heat up initially or when ramping.

Yep once target temp has been reached I and D will help maintain temp +/- 1 when set reasonably (which I think yours are reasonable).

I don't think it would be worth going through the process you explain but you can if you have the time and are curious.
Instead, I suggest you get a 2 packs of boneless skinless chicken thighs (can't mess them up) and smoke Pack 1 at 225F and see how fast the smoker comes up to 225F with P=57 and how much overshoot there is.
The chicken thighs will be a quick smoke.

Then the next day or day after set P=7 and smoke Pack 2 of the chicken thighs and see how quick the smoker heats up and how much overshoot there is.

To me a fast ramp up is way way way more useful even if it initially overshoots 20-25F degrees.
A slow ramp up will be even slower when you put a 10 pound pork butt in your smoker so I like the fast ramp up.  Also if it ramps up fast but always overshoots like 20F degrees there is a trick you can do.

The trick is like this.  Lets say I want to smoke at 250F.
I set the smoker to 230F and it ramps up and initial spike hits like 255F.
Well at that point I just change the set temp to 250F and boom I'm like right there hahaha.  Just gotta be clever with the device and take advantage of its behavior :)

Try not to overthink it too much at this point.  Your autotune got you in or near the ball park.  You are almost there but can totally do some test smokes that will produce good food to get there.  Boneless skinless chicken thighs are the easiest thing in the world and taste amazing while you figure out your setup.
I hope this helps some :)


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## chopsaw (Oct 7, 2022)

FreshGround said:


> Would it be worthwhile to measure the effect by timing the smoker going from cold to 225 with P=57 and then letting it cool back down and timing it with P=7?


Yes . My opinion is that's where you should start . 
Your comment also tells me that you're thinking . 

Your auto tune is way out of whack , and I'd be surprised if it even gets to set temp with those numbers . 

Mine gets to set temp in around 20 minutes with no over run and stays there . 
Here's the results of following my method of set up . 
Notice the steady blink .


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## zwiller (Oct 7, 2022)

Rich, video shows private. 

Disappointing auto tune does not work well.  Curious why.  

Some data for you guys.  My settings are based on 

 chopsaw
 (7, 208, 210) but a tiny bit different.  5, 210, 210.  Going P7 to P5 seemed to match stock MES heat time.  I was not scientific about it but guess P7 took about 30m longer to hit.  ID settings are just an OCD thing LOL.  One cool thing about the wifi is the data log.  You can even export it.  Haven't played with it yet but I think you could REALLY geek out with the PID settings not that I plan to do much with it as I am still in shock how accurate it is already.  The stock settings took even longer to heat but appeared to hold the temp exactly but admit I was not paying constant attention.  FYI the PID settings are systemwide and are not saved in the recipes/presets.


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## tallbm (Oct 7, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Rich, video shows private.
> 
> Disappointing auto tune does not work well.  Curious why.
> 
> ...



Yep sounds like you are well on your way with it!

That "P" value will make a world of difference.  Have you tried a P=3 yet? :D

Just couldn't resist putting the idea in your head to geek out on :P


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## FreshGround (Oct 10, 2022)

OK, I'm back and ready for more help.  I'm going empirical and trying to go strictly by the numbers, manually.  So I set P, I, D to 1,0,0 and set the C1 to 225 and T1 to 400.  Here is a record of what happened and when it happened in total elapsed time.  The initial temp in the smoker was 84.

225   7.30 min
258   11.30 min (i.e., it took 4 min to go from 225 to 258)
225    16.0
222    17.0
225    18.30
229    19.50
225    23.30
221    24.50
225    25.30
234    28.30
225    31.50
217    33.30
225    34.50
242    37.30
225    41.30
212    44.00
225    45.10
251    48.30
225    53.30

I stopped the experiment there.  It seemed strange to me that as the experiment went on after the initial overshoot to 258, the subsequent overshoots went from 229 to 234, to242, to 251.

So now I think the question is what value of I I should try to reduce the overshoot.  In your method, 

 chopsaw
 you say to increase the value of I to control overrun.  Would something like 200 be an appropriate value for I?  Once I adjust I I will redo the experiment, but it takes a while for the smoker to cool down and rerun the experiment so I want to be sure to use a reasonable value for I.

I'm feeling a lot less overwhelmed.  I even watched some YouTube videos explaining PID theory, so I understand it better in the abstract - but they weren't very helpful in actually picking values.  Hence I'm going with an empirical process like 

 chopsaw
 outlined.


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## chopsaw (Oct 10, 2022)

I suggest you write this down on paper so you can take it to the smoker and refer to it .

P - Power output . Measured in Degrees . The larger the number , the lower the gain .

I - Temp offset . Measured in seconds . Decrease number if taking to long to get to temp . Increase number to control over run . 

D - Response . Measured in seconds . Larger the number more aggressive the response .



FreshGround said:


> So now I think the question is what value of I I should try to reduce the overshoot. In your method,
> 
> chopsaw
> you say to increase the value of I to control overrun. Would something like 200 be an appropriate value for I?


200 would be a starting point , but if you're going to leave P = 1 then you will probably need a higher value for I .
Start with 200 . Leave D = 0 and adjust I a little at a time . When you get the over run where you like it , then you can address D .


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## dr k (Oct 10, 2022)

FreshGround said:


> OK, I'm back and ready for more help.  I'm going empirical and trying to go strictly by the numbers, manually.  So I set P, I, D to 1,0,0 and set the C1 to 225 and T1 to 400.  Here is a record of what happened and when it happened in total elapsed time.  The initial temp in the smoker was 84.
> 
> 225   7.30 min
> 258   11.30 min (i.e., it took 4 min to go from 225 to 258)
> ...


You had food or a load in which size Mes smoker.?  empty P 1, I 0, D 0 would be 20ish empty in a Mes 40 to get to 275, 1,200 watt element with a 5-10 degree initial carry over.  With a load it may be an hour in the Mes 40 sucking up heat to get to 275.  Your not over shooting much so it's good. The higher you cook closer to 275 max the lower carry over or no carry over above 275.  It may drop to 270 in the first cycles but no carry over at 275 with a load.  low at 225 then a little more carry over.  But don't worry about the first hour of a little carry over to stabilize.  I don't want to wait an hour to get an empty Mes 40 to 275 let alone the load for 1.5 hours +.  Do a cook start to finish and document it.


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## zwiller (Oct 10, 2022)

Still working on interpreting the csv file from the export but impressed so far.  Screen shot of the log.


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## zwiller (Oct 18, 2022)

Reporting back.  Think I have the connectivity issues worked out and want to post here in case it can help others.  First off Auber wifi is 2.4G ONLY, took some work to deal with that.  Then the router settings needed a little tweaking to closer match Auber's.  From here, I had to set my phone's battery settings (android) to "unrestricted" use for the Auber app.   So now it works as expected.  Battery life doesn't seem to be much affected at all.  One cool thing I found when I was testing was one time I closed all my apps by mistake including the Auber so the log was gone but the whole log restored once it connected to wifi again!  Took a few minutes tho.  Also, went away a few hours and phone stayed connected via cellular.  Here is shot of around 6hrs testing.


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## tallbm (Oct 18, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Reporting back.  Think I have the connectivity issues worked out and want to post here in case it can help others.  First off Auber wifi is 2.4G ONLY, took some work to deal with that.  Then the router settings needed a little tweaking to closer match Auber's.  From here, I had to set my phone's battery settings (android) to "unrestricted" use for the Auber app.   So now it works as expected.  Battery life doesn't seem to be much affected at all.  One cool thing I found when I was testing was one time I closed all my apps by mistake including the Auber so the log was gone but the whole log restored once it connected to wifi again!  Took a few minutes tho.  Also, went away a few hours and phone stayed connected via cellular.  Here is shot of around 6hrs testing.
> 
> View attachment 646222


That is great to hear and boy does it all look good and exciting now! :D
I just sat down from putting racks of wild pork spare ribs in the smoker and I'm looking forward to seeing what you will be smoking, hopefully something any moment now :D


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## zwiller (Oct 18, 2022)

Goal is some SS soon and then some 325F chicken.  While I got you, say I use some pickled japs at rate of say 5% +/- in the SS, think that will give me a mild tang so no need for a ferment?


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## tallbm (Oct 18, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Goal is some SS soon and then some 325F chicken.  While I got you, say I use some pickled japs at rate of say 5% +/- in the SS, think that will give me a mild tang so no need for a ferment?


Nice on the planned smokes!

I'm not sure on the tang from the pickled peppers, I haven't done summer sausage with jalapenos or ECA for tang (crazy I haven't right!?).



 indaswamp
 is probably the man with the knowledge to answer this well.

I HAVE read that for more jalapeno flavor it is best to use dehydrated jalapeno and jalapeno powder vs pickled or fresh Jalapeno.  

I assume better answers are on their way for you :)


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## Bat119 (Oct 20, 2022)

I bought the WS-1510ELPM for my Pit boss 1600 watt smoker I was really hoping for a simple unit where you set temperature  at 130* then manually bump it up every hour or so. The manual is more Greek than English to me, my question is do I need to set the parameters or will the factory defaults be enough for simple smoking.


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## tallbm (Oct 20, 2022)

Bat119 said:


> I bought the WS-1510ELPM for my Pit boss 1600 watt smoker I was really hoping for a simple unit where you set temperature  at 130* then manually bump it up every hour or so. The manual is more Greek than English to me, my question is do I need to set the parameters or will the factory defaults be enough for simple smoking.



Hey there 

 Bat119
 !

[EDIT- Striked through txt as it was for the wrong smoker lol]
FYI, the Pit Boss 1600 is a pellet smoker that comes with it's own PID controller already.  Your Auber controller is meant to control a smoker that has a heating element, not a pellet auger :)

To give a general answer to your questions, I think you would want to change the parameters of any PID regardless of the smoker so that the PID controls the smoker a bit better, BUT you can always roll with the stock settings to see how a simple chicken thigh smoke goes and tweak from there if needed.

This is a good answer, BUT a general answer and does not address your current issue.  The issue being you have the wrong PID for your type of smoker :)


You should be able to use your existing Pitboss PID controller and maybe tune it.  If it is trash that can't be tuned, or died on you then there are some alternatives.

Now Auber does make a controller for pellet smokers and suggests a 2nd similar OEM controller that is more easily installed.  It is offered by a partner of theirs (according to this https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=70)

*Option 1 *- The Auber controller is:





						1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (Built-in SSR) [SYL-2372] - $42.98 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (Built-in SSR) [SYL-2372] - Features: PID control with fuzzy logic enhancement for outstanding stability control 0.2% accuracy over the entire input range Displays in either Fahrenheit or Celsius temperature unit Percent output...



					www.auberins.com
				



This is only the PID unit.  You would still need to buy all other components, wiring, temp probes, etc, etc and perform this as a ground up installation.  Not for people new to PID controllers.
If you want something much simpler with all the pieces included, go with option 1


****Option 2**** - The partner OEM controller is:








						Savannah Stoker Pellet Grill Controller
					

Savannah Stoker Pellet Grill Controller v5 The most advanced PID based artificial intelligent temperature controller for Traeger and similar wood pellet grills that allows you to control your pellet grill with “simplicity but infinite control”. Version 5 includes the controller, a grill...



					www.savannahstoker.com
				



This claims to be a 10 min installation and looks to be a nice simple option.  It seems you don't have to tweak the PID settings/values but I bet you can if you get the proper button sequence and codes from their support site.  Auber says this pid is based of the one in Option 1 so I would think they maybe even share the same tuning steps :)

I would go with option 2 if i were in your shoes.  I'd see if I could return that Auber PID, sell it, or put it on an electric smoker that uses an electric element like an MES 40 :)

I hope this info helps, ask any questions you may have :)


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## Bat119 (Oct 20, 2022)

My smoker is the electric model with a 1600 watt element I burned out two PID's that were rated for 15 amps in power spikes thought I would go with the 1510 1800 watt unit. I've been smoking things for 40 years. My last PID the parameter was 7 degrees it worked well until the power spike.


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## tallbm (Oct 20, 2022)

Bat119 said:


> My smoker is the electric model with a 1600 watt element I burned out two PID's that were rated for 15 amps in power spikes thought I would go with the 1510 1800 watt unit. I've been smoking things for 40 years. My last PID the parameter was 7 degrees it worked well until the power spike.
> View attachment 646400


Ah thanks for the pic and the info!  
I went and edited my last post since I was thinking you had the pellet smoker not the electric.

You should be able to roll with the stock settings.  If it takes to long to initially heat up you may want to lower the P value to 5 and if still too long maybe a P value of 3.

I wouldnt worry too much about the initial overshoot, but that's just me.  Once you have P making your smoker heat up and react fast then you can look to toon I and D but if they are around 200 each then you are likely ok.

I hope this info helps :)


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## Bat119 (Oct 20, 2022)

Thanks for that I have a pork shoulder thawing for further testing, the manual is intimidating far more complicated then for my needs.  I'll play around with the different settings as I go


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## dr k (Oct 20, 2022)

Bat119 said:


> Thanks for that I have a pork shoulder thawing for further testing, the manual is intimidating far more complicated then for my needs.  I'll play around with the different settings as I go


I went to the manual and set it to single step mode so no minutes to set just the temp and it stays there and use my own timer to ramp if necessary. The 1510 will not burn out the SSR on a 1,200 watt element when on constantly and has the 15 amp quick blow fuse. Higher watt elements that are on constantly with big loads over long durations will fry it so you need to adjust your output from 100% to 80% or so, also in the manual. I like the P 1, I 0 and D 0. Or chopsaw's P 1, I 208 and D 210. Play with the P setting on both 5 max. Out of the box and autotune not good for me on the Mes 40.


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## Bat119 (Oct 20, 2022)

I put a pan of water in the smoker for a trial, I used single set mode, set for 130* overshot to 138* and then back to 130* rock steady kicked it up to 150* gained the 20* in 10 mins. stayed rock steady. As suggested I will reset the "P" to a lower number as soon as I figure out how..baby steps. On another note my Inkbird IRF-45 is showing a temp. 6* lower the sensors are both in the same place inside the smoker. I'll track some of those fast blow fuses JIC


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## tallbm (Oct 20, 2022)

Bat119 said:


> I put a pan of water in the smoker for a trial, I used single set mode, set for 130* overshot to 138* and then back to 130* rock steady kicked it up to 150* gained the 20* in 10 mins. stayed rock steady. As suggested I will reset the "P" to a lower number as soon as I figure out how..baby steps. On another note my Inkbird IRF-45 is showing a temp. 6* lower the sensors are both in the same place inside the smoker. I'll track some of those fast blow fuses JIC


Nice!
Yeah the Auber manual was clearly written by someone who has poor command of the english language or it was direclty translated from another language.

To simplify change P-I-D values do the following:

Hold SET for 3 sec to change ability to input a number
Enter 166 and press SET button and it will take you to the "P" setting
Change the P value and hit SET to lock it in and skip to "I"
Change "I" and hit SET or skip it by just hitting SET and it will go to "d"
Change "d" and hit SET or skip it by hitting SET to go to "At"
Change "At" and hit SET or skip by hitting SET to go to "t"
Change "t" and hit SET or skip by hitting SET to leave the 166 settings

To set time simply:

 hit the SET button to go to step "C-1" (step 1 duration) and change to an insanely large value to stay on that step forever/that many minutes, and hit SET to move to "t-1" (step 1 temp)
Enter your set Temp for this step (step 1) and hit SET to move to step 2 (C2)
Now for every consecutive step (C2-C6) enter a duration value of 0 and hit SET to go to the time for that step (t2-t6) - this means the step will not execute
Now change the temp (t2-t6) to 0 temp and hit SET
repeat steps 3-4 to Zero out C2-C6 to 0 min and t2-t6 to 0 time
From this point on you only ever have to skip to step 2 and adjust your set temp for your smoker to simply just have a 1 step smoke at that set temp forever (well for the C1 duration which should be set to an insanely high number like 4320 = 3 days).

Let me know if this helps :)


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## Bat119 (Oct 20, 2022)

Let me know if this helps :)

Very very much translated from engrish to English helps immensely, reading that manual was like listening to Charlie Brown's parents  on the Christmas special. Copied onto a word file and printed


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## tallbm (Oct 20, 2022)

Bat119 said:


> Let me know if this helps :)
> 
> Very very much translated from engrish to English helps immensely, reading that manual was like listening to Charlie Brown's parents  on the Christmas special. Copied onto a word file and printed


Hahaha glad to help!

Yeah not many people are going to easily understand those state flow diagrams they attempt to use.  This simplified bit should get the job done :)


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## Bat119 (Oct 26, 2022)

Now I'm cooking! followed Tallbm's instructions smoker is working perfect about 30 mins to 250* held steady for 6 hours and as a bonus it doesn't trip my GFI


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## tallbm (Oct 26, 2022)

Bat119 said:


> Now I'm cooking! followed Tallbm's instructions smoker is working perfect about 30 mins to 250* held steady for 6 hours and as a bonus it doesn't trip my GFI


Nice, glad to hear u are up and running!
Looking forward to seeing what you make :)


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