# A-Maze-N vs ProQ Cold Smoke Generators



## pokey

Has anyone had hands-on experience with both of these smokers? I didn't see anything in a search and hoped for a direct comparison.


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## scarbelly

There are a number of us who have been using the A MAZE N SMOKER for a while now and love it. If you were to search this forum you would find a lot of guys that have joined in on the fun. I would give it a very high rating and if you ask Bearcarver or Beer-B-Que, I am sure they would be happy to share their experiences. I just used mine yesterday to smoke some jerky and it performed well even thought it was raining.


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## pokey

Thanks for the reply. I've seen the incredible groundswell for the A-MAZE-N. But when I saw the ProQ, I thought it looked very similar. That was what prompted the question. It's interesting, though, that it looks like the ProQ preceded the A-MAZE-N by a few months but never got any traction. The ProQ costs about the same, but had significantly higher shipping costs coming from the UK. But in the grand scheme of things, the difference doesn't add up to much more than the cost of pellets to smoke a butt. People seemd to be waiting foir the A_MAZE-N instead of the trying out the ProQ.


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## rbranstner

I would say that they would probably permform pretty close to the same. This isn't a bash against the ProQ but I will stick with a product made in the USA, even better it is made in my home state of MN and even better than that it is made by one of our own here on the SMF. Like I said I am sure the ProQ performs great and would be a great product but I will stick with what I have as the A-Maze-N-Smoker performs great as well.


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## Bearcarver

I saw them after I got my A-MAZE-N-SMOKER.

The dust goes around a circle, instead of back & forth.

They light it with a candle underneath.

I think they sell for about 50 L (however much that is).

I guess if I lived in Europe, I'd look closer at them, but since I don't want to scratch my head trying to translate Grams & Kilograms, I didn't bother. I never bought a Japanese car or truck either.

Maybe it's just me, but if I can get the same thing here & there, I buy US.

I did however buy a really nice fillet knife set, with 3 knives, a scissors, a fillet board with clamp, and a couple other things, all in a nice carrying case from the UK. It only cost me about $20, but it took 5 weeks to get here for about $30 shipping.

Then when you consider, there is no way you could find a better guy to deal with than Todd...........Nuff said.

Bear


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## rbranstner

Yep I agree with Bear if I lived in Europe I would probably go with the ProQ.


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## wildflower

It rains in your smoker 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			







Scarbelly said:


> I just used mine yesterday to smoke some jerky and it performed well even thought it was raining.


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## scarbelly

wildflower said:


> It rains in your smoker




 Oh if I could only just type one sentance with no tipos LOL


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## pokey

Competition is as American as apple pie (or smoked ribs). All things being equal, I will buy American. And if the quality is equal, I'd be willing to pay a little more for an American product over some outsider's. I don't like to compromise on quality, though. Not that I think this is what we're talking about here in the A-MAZE-N vs ProQ discussion.

It sounds like a no-brainer. I'm ordering the A-MAZE-N today!


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## chefrob

Pokey said:


> It sounds like a no-brainer. I'm ordering the A-MAZE-N today!


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## smokingohiobutcher

Having used a wire mesh strainer as a smoke generator substitute for buying the Pro Q when I saw how much the shipping was, I can say that the wire mesh does eventually burn through. especially if you start it over and over in the same spot. check this out...http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/89182/woodchip-burner

the metal that todd has chosen for the amaze-n-smoker is much sturdier and should last for years. i just smoked some mozzerella cheese for 11 hours on the 8x8  I have and it worked  like a dream.... also during a light rain. I think its great that one our own members has taken a simple idea and turned into some thing that seems to fill the needs of so many people.Great job Todd!!!!    I'm happy for ya man! 

Later

SOB


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## bbally

Buy the A MAZE N Smoker... if you don't like it I will be it from you to have an extra one.

This is one nice unit.


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## beer-b-q

"Buy American"

I would definitely recommend the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER...  It has performed flawlessly for me and I have taken to using it instead of the chip burner on my 40"MES.  If you buy one you will be hooked...  Also I recommend getting the largest one you can.  The 6X8 is only $5.00 more than the 6X6 and well worth the difference.


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## macsbbq

Just to clarify a few points...

The ProQ was released about a year before the A-Maze-n-smoker.

We now ship from within the USA, so have passed on the savings to our customers, the ProQ Cold Smoke Generator now costs $29.99, which includes shipping see here http://www.macsbbq.co.uk/Order USA.html

Other differences are...

The ProQ gives consistent burns for 10 hours or more on just 100g of wood dust.
There is no need for a torch to light it, it's supplied with a small candle to get the dust going.
Hope this helps

Ian


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## Bearcarver

Macsbbq said:


> Just to clarify a few points...
> 
> The ProQ was released about a year before the A-Maze-n-smoker.
> 
> We now ship from within the USA, so have passed on the savings to our customers, the ProQ Cold Smoke Generator now costs $29.99, which includes shipping see here http://www.macsbbq.co.uk/Order USA.html
> 
> Other differences are...
> 
> The ProQ gives consistent burns for 10 hours or more on just 100g of wood dust.
> There is no need for a torch to light it, it's supplied with a small candle to get the dust going.
> Hope this helps
> 
> Ian


LOL,

No offense, but if you now ship from the US, you might want to use ounces & pounds, instead of "g".

That would make it easier for guys like me who don't think it should be the buyers job to look up a conversion chart, especially if that product is being sold in the USA.

The site I found had 50 L as the price (My computer can't even make that squirrely little L with a line through it).

Toyota & Datsun have plants in the US too, but some of us still look at them as "Foreign" cars.

Bear


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## squirrel

Hi Ian,

I have a question. In your ad it says *Unlike other products on the market (a-maze-n-smoker, Porky Pa's, the bradley smoker and the SmokePistol) the ProQ* *requires no gas or electricty to operate.*

The A-Maze-N Smoker doesn't require gas or electricity to use, unless you are referring to using the torch to light the dust? What exactly are you using to light the candle with in your ad?


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## scarbelly

Funny

His post says 10 hours and their ad says 8 hours

I still say BUY AMERICAN


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## tjohnson

*A-MAZE-N-FACTS*

*"MADE IN USA"*

_"Patent Pending"_ In the *USA*
Will Not Rust - 100% *U.S.* *Stainless Steel*
Fabricated Locally from #304 Stainless Steel  Supplied by *U.S*. *Steel Companies*
Ships With 1 Full Pound of Hickory From the *USA *- Enough for (4) Smokes in the 6x6
Can Be Used for _Both_ Cold & Hot Smoking
*Does Not Require* Any Electricity - Can Use a Lighter, Micro Torch or Propane Torch
Light Both Ends for More Smoke and Light the Center for Even More Smoke!!
6"x6" Will "Conservatively" Smoke for 6-8+ hours and the 6"x8" for 8-10+
(2) Sizes Currently Available 6"x6"x1.125" & 6"x8"x1.375"
Custom Sizes Available Upon Request!!!
8"x8"x1.5" for Larger Smokers & More Smoke Available Soon
Very Sweet Smelling Thin Blue Smoke
No Sticky Creosote
Easy To Clean 
15 Varieties of 100% Natural Sawdust Available From *U.S.* *Suppliers*
Over a Ton of Sawdust On-Hand
A-MAZE-N Customer Service!!!
Dealer Inquiries Welcome!!!

*U.S. Dollars Stay In the USA!!! - Order, Fab & Ship with 100% U.S. Companies!!!*
Thanks for all the support!!!!

Todd Johnson


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## macsbbq

I hear you all...and it's seems I've fired up some good ole patriotism (I'm all for it).

100g is approximately 3.5 ounces - since we sell worldwide it's grams that wins... only very few countires have resisted metrication.

I'm not sure what the "site I found had 50 L as the price" is about?

The point about the gas/ electric is... you have to buy a torch to light the AMNS, where as our unit comes ready to rock and roll ( assume you have matches in your house).

Our ad does say "up to 10 hours", but with research from over a1500 users, it does in fact give burns of 10 hours or more...  don't see a problem with giving our customers more than they expect.

I admire your patriotism guys, but fact is Toyota and other "foreign countires (not too sure about Datsun) are now market leaders in the USA, for no other reason that they make great products.

*"Has anyone had hands-on experience with both of these smokers? I didn't see anything in a search and hoped for a direct comparison."*

This was the original question, so far no one, myself included, has been able to answer it fairly.

Ian


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## squirrel

Ian,

If you would like to send me one of your units to compare to the A-Maze-N Smoker I would be more than happy to test them side by side and post my findings with pictures. Your "point" about the gas/electric, in my opinion, is false advertising. You used a BUTANE lighter in your video, and if I'm not mistaken also appears to be a DISPOSABLE BUTANE lighter, where as the torch that I bought is a REFILLABLE butane torch. Also, what about the candles? Do you send me a lifetime supply of those or do I have to purchase them as well?

Listen sir, I am all for good, honest competition and I understand marketing strategy as I am in the advertising business as a photographer. But, to make it sound like all the other smokers out there are inferior to yours because they require "gas/electric" is just wrong, when in fact you are using the exact same gas to start yours in your advertising. I am guessing if you used a match you would not get the candle lit on the first try because of possible wind. So, saying to use matches and then you used a lighter, well, you surely get my point by now.


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## scarbelly

Ya know when Todd was trying to market his A MAZE N SMOKER he sent out several units to have us test and send him feedback. I to will volunteer to test one of your units if youd like to get a comparison. I have been using the AMS since it came out and would be happy to compare for you


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## Bearcarver

TJohnson said:


> *A-MAZE-N-FACTS*
> 
> *"MADE IN USA"*
> 
> _"Patent Pending"_ In the *USA*
> Will Not Rust - 100% *U.S.* *Stainless Steel*
> Fabricated Locally from #304 Stainless Steel  Supplied by *U.S*. *Steel Companies*
> Ships With 1 Full Pound of Hickory From the *USA *- Enough for (4) Smokes in the 6x6
> Can Be Used for _Both_ Cold & Hot Smoking
> *Does Not Require* Any Electricity - Can Use a Lighter, Micro Torch or Propane Torch
> Light Both Ends for More Smoke and Light the Center for Even More Smoke!!
> 6"x6" Will "Conservatively" Smoke for 6-8+ hours and the 6"x8" for 8-10+
> (2) Sizes Currently Available 6"x6"x1.125" & 6"x8"x1.375"
> Custom Sizes Available Upon Request!!!
> 8"x8"x1.5" for Larger Smokers & More Smoke Available Soon
> Very Sweet Smelling Thin Blue Smoke
> No Sticky Creosote
> Easy To Clean
> 15 Varieties of 100% Natural Sawdust Available From *U.S.* *Suppliers* as-low-as $2.19/lb.
> Over a Ton of Sawdust On-Hand
> A-MAZE-N Customer Service!!!
> Dealer Inquiries Welcome!!!
> 
> *U.S. Dollars Stay In the USA!!! - Order, Fab & Ship with 100% U.S. Companies!!!*
> Thanks for all the support!!!!
> 
> Todd Johnson


Thanks Todd,

I know you try to avoid even mentioning your product on this forum, and 99% of your posts are about smoking great food, and helping others. That is what this forum was designed to do, I believe. The support you get for the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER from all of the happy owners of the best cold smoker made (IMHO) is proof of it's quality. I have never seen any product that has service even close to the service you give with your A-MAZE-N-SMOKER. Just keep doing what you do.

BTW: I never tried it, but I'd bet I could light my A-MAZE-N-SMOKER with a candle too, but why would I bother. I don't even have any candles. We have electric here in PA. My grandparents used to keep a few candles around for when the electric went out, but we prefer flashlights for emergencies.

Thanks again,

Bear


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## pokey

As the OP, I'd like to inform everyone that I did by the AMAZ-N-SMOKER, but I saw the advice to get the biggest possible after I ordered the 6x6, thinking 8 hours at a time is probably enough. It seems for most of the really long smokes, the target is foiled part of the time anyway.

But in fairness, I like the idea of a head-to-head comparison. Ian seems to, also, unless it's just a way to sell one more. Scar's idea is excellent. And would certainly make for more good reading.


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## wingman

I have bought allot of products from US and Foriegn countries especially motorcycle parts from the UK. My choice is based on what I feel is of higher quality in product and customer service not to mention sustainability. I have not tested the PROQ. I was involved some of the initial testing of the AMAZ-N-SMKOER as were others here and have spoke with Todd in great lengths. Todd has made several design changes based on feedback from some of the forum members. He gets customer satisfaction, quality and service. That brings a powerful attribute to the table. I believe the guy behind the product is focussed on customer quality and satisfaction. I feel he is constantly keeping tabs on the quality of his smoker as well as the fuel he supplies for it. It's made in USA and that's a big bonus! It's priced very reasonably. I'm not saying PROQ isn't... I'm stating my experience with the builder, product and service. As far as operation of the unit, it's Amazing  for the price. I have several friends using it in their BBQ grills and love it. As for torches VS. candles...  I'm not into candles. When folks ask me about cold smoke generators I recommend behing the AMAZ-N-SMOKER.


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## Bearcarver

Wingman said:


> I have bought allot of products from US and Foriegn countries especially motorcycle parts from the UK. My choice is based on what I feel is of higher quality in product and customer service not to mention sustainability. I have not tested the PROQ. I was involved some of the initial testing of the AMAZ-N-SMKOER as were others here and have spoke with Todd in great lengths. Todd has made several design changes based on feedback from some of the forum members. He gets customer satisfaction, quality and service. That brings a powerful attribute to the table. I believe the guy behind the product is focussed on customer quality and satisfaction. I feel he is constantly keeping tabs on the quality of his smoker as well as the fuel he supplies for it. It's made in USA and that's a big bonus! It's priced very reasonably. I'm not saying PROQ isn't... I'm stating my experience with the builder, product and service. As far as operation of the unit, it's Amazing  for the price. I have several friends using it in their BBQ grills and love it. As for torches VS. candles...  I'm not into candles. When folks ask me about cold smoke generators I recommend behing the AMAZ-N-SMOKER.


Exactly,

I would be willing to test one too, since I've been using my two & testing prototypes of Todd's. Right now I'm still doing tests on one (5 X 11) that gets 12 hours of cold smoking, or 6 hours of double smoke, but it still has a little problem in "Hot Smoking". We know it's not what it was designed for, but Todd wants people to be able to use it in hot smokes too. It is the only one that fits where I like to put one---on the bars, to the left of the chip drawer of the little MES 30.

I know the Pro Q would never fit there, and I doubt if it will fit under the drawer, on the bottom drip pan either, like the 6 X 6 and the 6 X 8 do. I can't really tell where the Pro Q would fit because I can't find anything on dimensions on their site. I guess if I took some of the meat out, I could put it on one of my meat racks. I'm sure it would fit there. I doubt if the Pro Q would work in a hot smoke, but I could be wrong.

I would test a Toyota, if they gave me one try, but I'd have to go to another town, so my friends wouldn't see me driving it 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






. Then after it fell apart from trying to tow with it, I'd have to go back to my Ram anyway.

How's that song go?? "And I'm proud to be an American, da-do-dit do dit-dit-Dahhhh"........."God Bless The USAaaaaa"

Sorry about that, I'm just a habitual "Homer":

Just like in sports, I root for my old high school.

College sports---Penn State, Villanova, and Temple.

Pros---All Philly teams.

If Philly didn't have a team, it would be Pittsburg.

In other words, it's tough to sell me anything not made in USA, especially when the US product does more things & has such perfect service.

Rant over,

"Homer" Bear


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## macsbbq

Wow you're a real friendly bunch on here.

I'd be more than happy to send one of our units out, for free, to anybody that will give a non-biased, honest review.

However I don't honestly believe that will change anyones opinion on this forum, based on the comments so far, even if the ProQ out-performed it tenfold.

If anyone is serious about giving and honest review, please feel free to PM me.

Ian


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## mossymo

Not trying to break up the momentum of this thread, but playing devil's advocate I can't help but wonder what Todd might do if he was approached by a Chinese manufacture and was offered his finished product manufactured for him to his specifications and made with same materials at 50% of his current cost? Much less work and profits on the retail side would increase substantially.....


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## scarbelly

If you knew Todd like some of us do I dont think that would ever enter your mind. I am not trying at all to be rude or confontative with you. Todd is just extremely proud of it all being done here and I can not even imagine he would consider it going anywhere else.  I could be wrong and I am not trying to speak for him but that is just the impression I have gained over the past year.


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## Bearcarver

I admitted I am a Homer, and I can't help that (born with red, white, and blue blood), but I looked at all of your posts, and I can't find one single post that was made to show any of your Q, or help anyone, or even ask how to smoke something.

They are all (9) made to try to sell your Pro Q and your candles. 

You aren't interested in smoking meat. You just want to sell your product here.

That's not what we are here for.

Don't send me one, because you obviously wouldn't believe me when I tell you the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER fits better, cold smokes better, hot smokes better, cleans up better
Nuff said.
Bearcarver


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## macsbbq

I am a member of several BBQ/ Food smoking forums around the world, where I do indeed, give advice on how to smoke food. I have looked through this forum often enough, but have yet to find a question that wasn't answered sufficiently.

"Don't send me one, because you obviously wouldn't believe me when I tell you the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER fits better, cold smokes better, hot smokes better, cleans up better"

Your entitled to an opinion, even if it is totally biased.


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## macsbbq

I am Passionate about the products I design and therefore may rise to certain comments. Please accept my apology.

Sorry if I have caused any problems here, but as this is just turning into a "mud slinging" match, I'd rather not say anymore.


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## Bearcarver

Macsbbq said:


> I am a member of several BBQ/ Food smoking forums around the world, where I do indeed, give advice on how to smoke food. I have looked through this forum often enough, but have yet to find a question that wasn't answered sufficiently.
> 
> "Don't send me one, because you obviously wouldn't believe me when I tell you the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER fits better, cold smokes better, hot smokes better, cleans up better"
> 
> Your entitled to an opinion, even if it is totally biased.




You missed the point:

If you want to be friends, (you complained about us not being a friendly bunch) do something other than try to sell your product. You've been here a year. Did you ever compliment anyone in that year? Didn't anyone deserve any compliments?

Just who here is the unfriendly one?


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## macsbbq

See above post.


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## squirrel

I think Todd would want to know the honest truth if your smoker out performed his. He's that kinda guy. Because he would take that info and work on his product to improve it. The best inventions are made that way, so being biased even if yours is better would only hurt Todd in the long run. It's about genuinely caring about your customers and a passion for creating a product that is not above being improved upon. But, it's a pretty awesome product. I have two of them.  We're not here to put him on some kind of pedestal, because I would be the first to let him know something wasn't going so well. I think our first conversation was a complaint from me if I remember correctly.


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## dave54

PM sent

  For a free one I'd give it an honest try  and give an opinion.

 


Macsbbq said:


> Wow you're a real friendly bunch on here.
> 
> I'd be more than happy to send one of our units out, for free, to anybody that will give a non-biased, honest review.
> 
> However I don't honestly believe that will change anyones opinion on this forum, based on the comments so far, even if the ProQ out-performed it tenfold.
> 
> If anyone is serious about giving and honest review, please feel free to PM me.
> 
> Ian


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## tjohnson

MossyMO said:


> Not trying to break up the momentum of this thread, but playing devil's advocate I can't help but wonder what Todd might do if he was approached by a Chinese manufacture and was offered his finished product manufactured for him to his specifications and made with same materials at 50% of his current cost? Much less work and profits on the retail side would increase substantially.....




MossyMo,

Great Question! 

The answer is we did explore the "Made In China" thing, and the price difference was not enough to justify going overseas.  The price may be less, but my product would have absolutely no protection in China.  Everything made in China gets knocked off, and there's nothing a guy can do about it. They say that U.S. Patent Rights are enforced in China, but how?  Who are you gonna complain to?

In the United States, I am protected by my Patent Rights and this little piece of paper I received from the U.S. Patent Office in July 2010.  I can literally drive to the fabricator and talk to each of his employees.  My neighbor is the Shop Foreman and they employ 30 people.  The material I use is #304 stainless steel not cheaper 430 Stainless like they use in China.

Before we invested our money and time into this thing, my wife and I decided together that "Made In USA" was important to us.  We're proud of what we've accomplished in a short period of time and looking forward to good GREAT things ahead.  My little gadgets have made it to almost every State in the U.S., Canada, Australia, & even a Military base in Kuwait.  Check out STACKS on SMF..... http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/98152/udairi-ribs-w-q-view#post_536660

After all BBQ was invented in The United States of America!!!

Todd


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## scarbelly

I decided that no matter how honest I was that it would not be accepted as unbiased so I did not PM.

My first concern with the unit is the candle. Many of us have stopped using chip boxes and are using the AMS as our smoke source while still using the heating element and I would be concerned that the candle would melt all over the bottom of my smoker if used in this manner

Thanks Dave for stepping in. I am looking forward to your review


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## scarbelly

Thanks Todd


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## dave54

Ian replied and has one on the way.

 I will try and give an honest opinion when i try it .

I 've seen both on Utube and dont own either , Ive been doing all my cold smoking with home made smoke generators so this type

 will new to me .

 


Scarbelly said:


> I decided that no matter how honest I was that it would not be accepted as unbiased so I did not PM.
> 
> My first concern with the unit is the candle. Many of us have stopped using chip boxes and are using the AMS as our smoke source while still using the heating element and I would be concerned that the candle would melt all over the bottom of my smoker if used in this manner
> 
> Thanks Dave for stepping in. I am looking forward to your review


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## tjohnson

> Originally Posted by *Squirrel*
> 
> We're not here to put him on some kind of pedestal, because I would be the first to let him know something wasn't going so well. I think our first conversation was a complaint from me if I remember correctly.


Squirrel,

Thank goodness you complained!

We had just posted the website and the shipping tables were all screwed up.  She was charged $25 shipping on a $50 order!  Ouch!!  Easy fix and we're now BFF!!!

TJ


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## mossymo

dave54 said:


> Ian replied and has one on the way.
> 
> I will try and give an honest opinion when i try it .
> 
> I 've seen both on Utube and dont own either , Ive been doing all my cold smoking with home made smoke generators so this type
> 
> will new to me .




Ian is sending a ProQ for me to use and review also. It will be interesting, only cold smoker I have is a Smoke Daddy "Big Kahuna" to compare, which is a totally different operation and has its own issues. I am looking forward to checking ProQ out!


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## Bearcarver

dave54 said:


> Ian replied and has one on the way.
> 
> I will try and give an honest opinion when i try it .
> 
> I 've seen both on Utube and dont own either , Ive been doing all my cold smoking with home made smoke generators so this type
> 
> will new to me .


Dave,

Be kinda rough for you to compare. Someone who owns an A-MAZE-N-SMOKER should try one---Not me---I'm biased.


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## Bearcarver

LOL---Dave's gonna compare it to home made smoke generators.

Mossy's gonna compare it to the Big Kahuna, that I gave up on a long time ago.

Who is going to compare it to the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER.

Come on guys, their must be a couple of A-MAZE-N-SMOKER owners who can be unbiased.

How 'bout one of you MES 30/A-MAZE-N-SMOKER owners---want a free Pro Q ?

Get um while they're hot,

Bear

Don't mind me---I want to see the real match-up. Mano -V- Mano----Smoko -V- Smoko

Oh-Oh, I just thought of it--How 'bout "Beer-B-Q"---He has an A-MAZE-N-SMOKER---and he used to be a "Cop"---That would be a "Bobby" in some foreign countries. Aren't Bobbies/Cops trained to be unbiased?


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## rdknb

ok I PM'ed him and will do it. a mazing smoker vs his


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## DanMcG

When talk started around here about Todd's new cold smoker, I couldn't help but see it as a knockoff of Mac's ProQ.

I visit a couple sites that are based in Europe and Mac's ProQ has been around a while  and has had excellent reviews. I'm sure they are both fine units that do what they say they will do. But I have to wonder when did the rules change  so it is ok to put down other members for whatever reason.  

Ok mini rant  OFF


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## rdknb

Day late dollar short. Not getting one to compare


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## Bearcarver

RdKnB said:


> Day late dollar short. Not getting one to compare


Why not?

Because you would be comparing it with the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER in question?

It probably wouldn't be fair anyway. One is Great for cold smoking, and great for warm smoking (up to at least 200˚), and good for up to 220˚, and being worked on to work good up to 250˚ or higher.

The other is only good (maybe great ?) for cold smoking (only going by their instructions).

Not much of a contest.


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## rdknb

Bearcarver said:


> Why not?
> 
> Because you would be comparing it with the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER in question?
> 
> It probably wouldn't be fair anyway. One is Great for cold smoking, and great for warm smoking (up to at least 200˚), and good for up to 220˚, and being worked on to work good up to 250˚ or higher.
> 
> The other is only good (maybe great ?) for cold smoking (only going by their instructions).
> 
> Not much of a contest.




Said he already gave out 2 and hopes Tod will send them one. I agree the whole thing started with that question and I do have one of the 2.  But that is fine saves me from having to write haha


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## macsbbq

Perhaps Todd would be willing to send out a sample to the same people I am sending to, as neither of them has tried either unit, I think we would then get a fair comparison.


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## rdknb

Macsbbq said:


> Perhaps Todd would be willing to send out a sample to the same people I am sending to, as neither of them has tried either unit, I think we would then get a fair comparison.




If I did not think I could give a fair comparison I would not have offered.  You have offended me!!!  Before I offered I had made no comments on this.


----------



## macsbbq

My intention was not to offend you, but if I have please accept my apology. I never said that I didn't think I would get an honest review from you, as I said in the PM, I have already promised to send two other people units.

Ian


----------



## tjohnson

Dan,

Actually, I found Mac's ProQ long after I found these (2) Charcoal Mazes on the Internet, so your "Knock Off" Statement is unwarranted.  Is it possible for (2) ideas to come from (2) different parts of the world?  It happens all the time.  The fact that both units burn sawdust in the efficient shape of a maze, does not make mine a "Knockoff".  I also grind my own sawdust, but that does not mean I "Knocked Off" other companies who make and sell sawdust.  It's all a process of "Trial and Error" until you get it right!

History:

I own a construction company, and in December 2009, worked for a retired Cop, who smoked 6 big fat nasty cigars every day.  My new smoker lacked consistent smoke, and the thought crossed my mind, "Why couldn't I get sawdust to burn like a big fat cigar in my new smoker?"  The next day, I made my 1st prototype.  It wasn't pretty, but it burned sawdust.  I knew I was on to something!!!  In March & April 2010 I sent out 15 prototypes to guys on SMF for extensive testing.  Their feedback got my gadget to where it is today.

We started with these (2) Charcoal Mazes and miniaturized them until they would work.  We made more than (10) prototypes and logged hundreds of hours burning sawdust, before we landed on the right combination of design, materials and sawdust.  While doing research for my my patent application, we found Mac's ProQ and had to provide this info to the the U.S. Patent Office as "Prior Art".  Yes, it is "Patent Pending" in the USA!

So, if I knocked off a "Charcoal Maze", I guess I'm guilty!

Here is where it all started:









Todd


----------



## squirrel

Scarbelly said:


> I decided that no matter how honest I was that it would not be accepted as unbiased so I did not PM.
> 
> My first concern with the unit is the candle. Many of us have stopped using chip boxes and are using the AMS as our smoke source while still using the heating element and I would be concerned that the candle would melt all over the bottom of my smoker if used in this manner
> 
> Thanks Dave for stepping in. I am looking forward to your review


Scarbelly,

If I'm not mistaken the candle only stays under it long enough to get the smoke going so I don't think there would be a problem with it melting. Unless I'm not understanding it correctly.


----------



## bbally

Jeeze you guys I kinda hard on this chap.

Todd sponsorred units to Smoking in the and I won a unit on the throw down just before that event.  I ended up giving them all away to people who wanted them or really paid attention to the class I did on smoking cheese with the unit.  I like the unit and like Todd...  But I don't think there is a reason to jump down the chaps gullet because he wants to tell you about another product.  More information is better and capitalism is not based on monopolies, but open competition.

I have seen and used Todd's unit, I recommend it cause I think it is a good product and Todd works hard at keeping customers happy.

But the key to staying in front of a competitor is not keeping them out, but letting them in and doing battle in the open market place... so let the tests begin and lets get the information out there for people to evaluate, and lets not chase Ian off... it is good to have a barbeque person from another country... look at Curious Ardvark?  Except for that crazy accent he seems to fit in well.  Or as well as a Brit can!


----------



## Bearcarver

BBQ person?

Or salesman.

Not a thing wrong with any of the Brit Smokers on here.

In 13 months, all posts have been trying to sell his product.

None were about smoking meat.

No questions about smoking.

No answers about smoking.

No compliments to any other member.

Just keeping an eye on the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER, and trying to sell his product.

I think the forum has places for salesmen to show their wares.


----------



## mossymo

Bearcarver said:


> I think the forum has places for salesmen to show their wares.




Would you prefer neither are able to post and only able to purchase advertising to SMF?


----------



## beer-b-q

I have to agree with Bear, It appears the only reason Macsbbq is here is to sell his product... I see no other participation in any of his posts. 

Todd has participated in posts other than those relating to his product and is also a sponsor of our monthly throwdowns offering his A-Maze-N-Smoker as a prize.

Todd has been more than helpful to members not just with his smokers... He has posted his smokes and also answered questions on smoking for a number of members. 

If you notice When he was first starting out with the A-Maze-N-Smoker he sent out a lot of units to be tested by the members, NOT JUST 2.

I for one will support the product made in the USA over foreign made and also one made by a productive member of this site not just a member who is a member so they can sell their products to other members.  Todds product is well made and has great customer support, that is a known fact. 

As for Macsbbq and his ProQ, nobody here has apparently seen or tried one so how can anyone speak of if it is or isn't well made or how good of job it does.  The only thing we have to go on is Ian's posts,

I think if Ian was serious about getting his product known a good way to start would be have more than 2 members test them...

Also on the Dealers page of his website it lists the following:






*Napoleon Appliance Corp* - 214 Bayview Dve, Barrie, Ontario, Canada - +1 705 726 4278 - *Website*

*I didn't realize that Canada was part of the USA, did I miss the part where we made it a state?*


----------



## bmudd14474

MossyMO said:


> Would you prefer neither are able to post and only able to purchase advertising to SMF?


The reason Todd was able to post about his product was because he is a contributing member here at SMF. He contacted Jeff to see if it was ok and because he was active Jeff allowed it. Also Todd is a Premier member and that gives him the right to post a link to his product in his signature.

Now as for Ian. Based on the time he has been a member here and the post he has on the forum It doesn't appear he was here to be part of the SMF community. He has his roll call post. One of his first post of his product, one on someone thread using the AMNS where he stated "Looks like the copies have begun 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	




What price are the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER's " and then the several on this thread. Now since he is not a contributing member of the forum should he be allowed to advertise his product? No I don't think he should be able too. If Ian or people who have it post Qview with it then that is more than welcomed. I would welcome Ian posting Qview of his Q more often and becoming active on the forum.

As for the design being copied I can go online and find other products that use a maze for things like charcoal that have been around longer than both of these smokers. Does that mean that they both stole a design? They both server the same purpose but do it differently. The AMNS can be lit from both ends to generate more smoke. The ProQ cannot. The AMNS requires a torch for about 30-45 seconds the ProQ does not. They both have different things that make them unique.

Bottom line is that they both have a certain audience. I hope that the testers can highlight the positive features of both products.

Ian I would recommend that you contact Jeff. Im sure he would be willing to test your product for you and give you a review. He may even put it in his newsletter if its as good as it appears.


----------



## dale5351

This thread has sure produced a lot of heat:-}}

I would agree that Todd does a lot more here than talk about his product -- in fact my perception is that he does very little of that, others do it for him:-}} 

Ian has only made a few posts here, many of which are in this thread.  I don't fault him for that.  I might make a comparison to the MBtechguy (Darryl).  He has made fewer posts.  Many of them are in support of his produce, but are prompted by the fact that he is reading and responding to comments made by others here.  Both he and Todd also make use of PM, as did Ian.

I'd say that Ian should be given a chance -- but that he should try to be reactive instead of proactive, following the example of Darryl and Todd.

As to my personal experience, I did see the ProQ but only after I had purchased the A-Maze-N smoker.  Even so, had I seen both of them, I would have still ordered the A-Maze-N smoker for several reasons.  Primary reason was that it was made and shipped in US.  Secondary reason was the reviews I saw of it here, and videos linked from here of it in use.  Final reason was cost -- I recall that the ProQ was more expensive (or should I say "a bit more dear" ).

Them's my two cents.


----------



## DanMcG

TJohnson said:


> Dan,
> 
> Actually, I found Mac's ProQ long after I found these (2) Charcoal Mazes on the Internet, so your "Knock Off" Statement is unwarranted.  Is it possible for (2) ideas to come from (2) different parts of the world?  It happens all the time.  The fact that both units burn sawdust in the efficient shape of a maze, does not make mine a "Knockoff".
> 
> :


Sorry Todd I really didn't mean for it to sound like an insult and if it was taken that way, I apologize.

What I was trying to say is they are similar products which do what the say they will do, and there is no reason for anyone to put down  another member or there product.

Also thanks for the background  history on your smoker.


----------



## tjohnson

Guys,

I don't think anybody is intentionally keeping any competitors out.  Mac has a good product, but my "Very Biased Opinion" says mine is just a little better.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   There's plenty of room for us both to play in the sandbox.

I'm a little frustrated by the "Misinformation" out there about my AMNS, but common sense will prevail!

I stated the "Facts" about my A-MAZE-N-SMOKER and am still waiting for the "Facts" to be posted regarding the ProQ.  Once the facts are posted, I have no problem comparing the units, but let's compare "Apples to Apples" upfront, and have some kind of guideline to go by for testing.

Country of Origin?

U.S. Patent Pending?

Construction Materials?

U.S. or Foreign Company?

Replacement Sawdust?

Etc, Etc....

There's nothing wrong with getting the facts.......

Todd


----------



## tjohnson

Dan,

No offense taken, just had to clear the air a little.

I thought the charcoal mazes looked industrial and rugged, so I stayed on that path.

It's All Good!

Todd


----------



## chefrob

allrighty........i will preface my up-in-coming series of posts with "it is not my intention to insult anyone and if i do, i apologize ahead of time" and i will try not to stir up anything........like last time. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





remember i have a dry sense of humor............

ian...........i drive an F-350 and no foreign auto maker can even come close......and never will!
 


Macsbbq said:


> I admire your patriotism guys, but fact is Toyota and other "foreign countires (not too sure about Datsun) are now market leaders in the USA, for no other reason that they make great products.
> 
> Ian


----------



## chefrob

Squirrel said:


> Ian,
> 
> If you would like to send me one of your units to compare to the A-Maze-N Smoker I would be more than happy to test them side by side and post my findings with pictures.


gotta love a girl who will take on the one for the team...............ian, squirrely girlely is pretty new here and IMNSHO would be a great candidate..........


----------



## chefrob

Wingman said:


> My choice is based on what I feel is of higher quality in product....... I'm not saying PROQ isn't............


i have seen their smokers (tripple stacked) in action at competitions and they actually looked better than our beloved WSM's.............well made, can't comment on customer service. we all know about weber's CS.......................


----------



## chefrob

Bearcarver said:


> I would test a Toyota, if they gave me one try, but I'd have to go to another town, so my friends wouldn't see me driving it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Then after it fell apart from trying to tow with it, I'd have to go back to my Ram anyway.
> 
> If Philly didn't have a team, it would be *Pittsburg.*


i guess some like a 6 hole oil burner............at least ya got one right......go stillers!


----------



## chefrob

Macsbbq said:


> Wow you're a real friendly bunch on here.
> 
> I'd be more than happy to send one of our units out, for free, to anybody that will give a non-biased, honest review.
> 
> However I don't honestly believe that will change anyones opinion on this forum, based on the comments so far, even if the ProQ out-performed it tenfold.
> 
> If anyone is serious about giving and honest review, please feel free to PM me.
> 
> Ian


wow........and your in the biz of selling things? granted there wasn't a ticker tape parade for yer arival but that's not going to work.

and i am friendly.........just ask scarbelly, i even let him out from being pinned behind the table last time he was over!


----------



## chefrob

Macsbbq said:


> *I am Passionate about the products I design *and therefore may rise to certain comments. Please accept my apology.


as you should be........no apology needed to me.


----------



## chefrob

Scarbelly said:


> Thanks Dave for stepping in. I am looking forward to your review


ditto!


----------



## chefrob

Macsbbq said:


> Perhaps Todd would be willing to send out a sample to the same people I am sending to, as neither of them has tried either unit, I think we would then get a fair comparison.


i agree............


----------



## chefrob

TJohnson said:


> ....worked for a retired Cop, who smoked 6 big fat nasty cigars every day.....


dang, i only got down 3 today.........


----------



## chefrob

bbally said:


> Jeeze you guys I kinda hard on this chap.....
> 
> But the key to staying in front of a competitor is not keeping them out, but letting them in and doing battle in the open market place... so let the tests begin and lets get the information out there for people to evaluate, and lets not chase Ian off...


i kinda agree on the first ..................and yup on the 2nd.


----------



## chefrob

gotta good point...........wanna do some throwdowns ian?


Beer-B-Q said:


> I have to agree with Bear, It appears the only reason Macsbbq is here is to sell his product... I see no other participation in any of his posts.


----------



## chefrob

see.........that wasn't so bad!

ian, i am a chef and have been in the biz for over 25 yrs but i have only been smoking for a couple. i will say that i do have an AMS and while i do like it, if yours was better i would use it no matter if i liked todd.....or if he was my brother(he's not). you see, i am all about performance, i prefer my 4star henckels over any other knife......but *only* the 4 star line. i wouldn't own any other line of henckel........but that's just me. for you to say that your smoker wouldn't get a fair shake here, well...........you have made a misjudgment that i hope you will learn from, your business depends upon it. good luck ian and i sincerely mean it.

chef rob


----------



## Bearcarver

MossyMO said:


> Would you prefer neither are able to post and only able to purchase advertising to SMF?



No I would not prefer neither are able to post. I do however prefer this forum not be used for the sole purpose of selling one's product, with a little copy-cat accusation thrown in.

When the new platform started, many complained about the ads on the sides. I did not, because I can ignore them. I see no problem with the way Todd did it. He has been a member for a long time, making posts to ask smoking questions, answer smoking questions, and to compliment others. Then he experimented for a long time on various types of smoke generators. He gave out 15 of them for people to try, asking for feed-back. We all did so. He made changes according to some of the feed-back. We all bragged about his product---Todd remained silent. I have not noticed any posts from Todd where he pushed his product. If someone asked him a question, and nobody else answered it, he would answer it. That is about it for his "pushing" his product.

As for the other guy, that is a different story. One of the first posts he made was, as bmudd said, [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]"Looks like the copies have begun", accusing Todd of copying his wire cage thing with Todd's Stainless Steel thing. I knew about this accusation for a long time, because it is in one of my threads "My First Cheese Smoke". In that thread I even told him to PM Todd if he was interested in buying an A-MAZE-N-SMOKER, because I thought he was a regular SMF member, and he asked how much they were. Then it dawned on me that he was accusing Todd of copying his wire mesh cage. I never forgot that, because if a guy wants to accuse somebody of something, he should do it straight up---not with remarks like that, in my thread to boot. That was all he said in that thread. Nothing about my smoked cheese, like how it was done, what he would have done differently, how good it looked--Nope nothing like that----Just "Looks like the copies have begun" and How much is this "A-MAZE-N-SMOKER".[/color]

So if anyone thinks I was being hard on the guy, this should explain some of my reasoning for my feelings toward him. He is not here to do the things we do. He is not interested in helping others or being helped by others. He is here to sell his product. His product should be on the side of our pages, because he is in no way a member of this wonderful community. If you go by what he has posted on this forum, he has never smoked one ounce of meat, and isn't interested in doing so. And he couldn't care less about any of the things any of us do & post for each other.

These are the facts as I know them. If I'm wrong in feeling that way, so be it.

Thank You,

Bearcarver


----------



## chefrob

the story behind the story........thx bear.

i still want to see these two side by side or as you put it..... SMOKO VS.  SMOKO

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tjohnson

> i still want to see these two side by side or as you put it..... SMOKO VS.  SMOKO
> LMFAO!!!!!!!!!


LMFAO!!!!! = What's this mean?

Still learning lingo

Thx!

Todd


----------



## Bearcarver

chefrob said:


> the story behind the story........thx bear.
> 
> i still want to see these two side by side or as you put it..... SMOKO VS.  SMOKO
> 
> LMFAO!!!!!!!!!


I agree, but it should showcase ALL of what they can do, like:

construction materials

Performance under 100˚ (cold-smoking)

Performance at 180˚  Salmon, beef sticks, etc

Performance at 200˚ Finishing many things like some sausages, dried beef, Canadian Bacon, etc

Performance at 225˚ Pulled pork butts, brisket, chuckies, etc

How easy they are to clean

Size (how much room they take up compared to how much smoke they put out) length of time smoking per square inch of smoker.

Let's compare apples to apples.

Then let the games begin,

Bear


----------



## chefrob

i agree...................are the testers listening??????


----------



## wingman

IMHO, I believe it's good to have venders be apart of these forums providing they play well with each other. They should be posting not only thgeir product but howto use them efficiently and videos of demonstrations smoking different products would be nice. They should not be allowed to discuss the short comings or flaws of other products.They should be focused on feilding questions on their products.  I'm not saying this has happened. I'm syaing it shouldn't happen. Tell us what it is, how it works, all the features. Pass some out if you wish. All this with the permission of the forum owner and moderators blessing. This forum is a diverse crowd and I believe a fair crowd. Honestly if the two do the same thing , are equal in build and cost along with customer support, you may find as Americans folks go with a USA made product. Some will do so anyway. Thats patriotism and you won't ever avoid that. As Todd stated, both can co habitate in this big world. But do it with integrity and don't worry about the other guys success or failures within the forum walls, worry about yours. Better yet, worry about the customers success using your product and service #1!

You will find that folks will gravitate to both. So lets start seeing some smoking with your products. Show us what you have and show us some Qview!

Sorry for the long post...


----------



## squirrel

Well said Wingman! This is not the place to be throwing any punches.


----------



## rdknb

Well I own a ams and volunteered to compare but was told no by Ian. Says he gave 2 out and Todd has to give them one. Then said that way he can get a fair judging.  I took offence to him implying I would not give him a fair chance.  As for now there will not be a comparision to answer the question that was asked.


----------



## tjohnson

Squirrel,

That's Freeking Funny!!!

TJ


----------



## Bearcarver

Squirrel said:


> Well said Wingman! This is not the place to be throwing any punches.


LOL---Boxing squirrels---Machine gunning squirrels!

You're killing me Cheryl!

Bear


----------



## erain

chefrob said:


> i drive an F-350 and no foreign auto maker can even come close......and never will!


for that matter, as of yet any other american auto maker either... specially govt motors...


----------



## scarbelly

chefrob said:


> wow........and your in the biz of selling things? granted there wasn't a ticker tape parade for yer arival but that's not going to work.
> 
> and i am friendly.........just ask scarbelly, i even let him out from being pinned behind the table last time he was over!


Yea but he did have his pit bull lickin my leg just to keep me in check


----------



## tjohnson

So, who's got enough experience with "Cold Smoking" to post the "Test Criteria" for the testers to go by?

I would like the following to be part of the "Test Criteria".

Testers Experience With "Cold Smoking"?

Strictly "Cold Smoking", Under 100*?

Smoking over 100* temps?

Smoking over 200* Temps?

Construction, Materials, Fit and Finish?

Features and Benefits?

Recommended Cubic Inch or Cubic Foot of Smoker?

Performance Including the Quality and Quantity of Smoke?

Smoke Fish & Cheese or is Bacon, Sausages & Meat Included?

Type of Smoker Used?

Type of Sawdust Used?

What's Included In The Box?

Outside Temperature and Humidity?

Anything Else?

The test should be more than throwing $5 worth of cheese in the smoker for 3-4 hours and posting the results.  We know both models can do that, but what are their similarities and their differences?  What are the PROS and CONS of each model?

My AMNS was tested by (2) well respected Professionals in the BBQ industry.  Jeff''s published review was unbiased and very much a surprise to me.  I sent him a test unit back in April, but I never requested or expected his public review.  The other review will be published this Fall.

Here's Jeff's Review:  http://www.smoking-meat.com/may-2010-smoking-cheese.html

THANKS!

Todd


----------



## macsbbq

Guys I think this has gone way too far...

The original question was "Has anyone had hands-on experience with both of these smokers? I didn't see anything in a search and hoped for a direct comparison" to which there were several (13) replies promoting the Ams, the only mention of the ProQ was regarding shipping costs. All I did was rectify that.

I now sincerely wish I had never posted on your forum, but it's too late for that.

Bearcarver, please see the image below of one of my 1st prototypes, which I made back in around June 2009, hence my remark on your "cheese" post. If what Todd says is true (and I believe he is right about the possibility of 2 people coming up with the same idea from different sides of the world). The reason I did not go with this original design, was that it only gave me around an 6 hour burn and I was aiming for 8 - 10, as that's the time I like my Lox to smoke for. I, like Todd, sent out units for people to try (I guess I've sent out around 40 for free so far).






I have thought long and hard about this and have decided to honor my agreement to send units out to MossyMO and Dave54 for them to try. I honestly do not care if they write reviews or not, I'll leave that up to them to decide... I do know that 2 weeks ago enquired about advertising on this site, quite expensive compared to other similar forums, decision was going to be made this coming week, but hey you've all made it for me.

Thanks to all of you for listening and sorry to the OP for the way this thread has turned.

Ian McKend


----------



## dale5351

Here are a couple the things I would like to see in reviews.

What is the construction?  I've been unable to tell from pictures of the ProQ if it is solid sides, wire mesh, or stainless steel with air holes like the AMNS.

What is the cost of the sawdust?  I can look at Todd's web page and see dust sold in 1 lb lots and in 5 lb lots.  He passes on the shipping cost of US Priority mail without additional cost.  Hence 1 lb dust is 4.49 + 10.70 = 15.19 and 5 lb dust is 10.95 + 10.70 = 21.65 (ordering in 5 lb lots is a no-brainer choice).  The web page (www.smokinlicious.com) that handles the US market for the ProQ sells sawdust.  It charges 10.90 for a 5-6 cup bag, including shipping.  I'm not sure, but I think that a pound of sawdust would be ten cups or more.  I see no option for reducing shipping cost by ordering larger amounts from Smokinlicious.    Of course, one cannot judge the two dust products by cost alone.  It would take a head to head comparison to see if both are the same quality and produce the same results.


----------



## tjohnson

Ian,

It's sad that things have to end this way and I was certainly hoping for a good test.  There are features and benefits to both units that I truly believe would be beneficial to all who are interested.  I posted positive things about my AMNS and not (1) negative statement about the ProQ throughout this entire thread.  All I asked for was some Ground Rules and Test Criteria for the testers to use.

In all fairness to our customers, they should know all the facts, not just a few facts that are biased one way or the other.

Just to clarify, I've _*NEVER*_ seen the picture posted by Ian before today, and for the record, it's eerily similar to one of my first "AMNS Looking" prototypes from February 2010.  I guess great minds think alike!






Your welcome to play in my sandbox anytime!!!

Regards,

Todd


----------



## Bearcarver

dale5351 said:


> Here are a couple the things I would like to see in reviews.
> 
> What is the construction?  I've been unable to tell from pictures of the ProQ if it is solid sides, wire mesh, or stainless steel with air holes like the AMNS.
> 
> What is the cost of the sawdust?  I can look at Todd's web page and see dust sold in 1 lb lots and in 5 lb lots.  He passes on the shipping cost of US Priority mail without additional cost.  Hence 1 lb dust is 4.49 + 10.70 = 15.19 and 5 lb dust is 10.95 + 10.70 = 21.65 (ordering in 5 lb lots is a no-brainer choice).  The web page (www.smokinlicious.com) that handles the US market for the ProQ sells sawdust.  It charges 10.90 for a 5-6 cup bag, including shipping.  I'm not sure, but I think that a pound of sawdust would be ten cups or more.  I see no option for reducing shipping cost by ordering larger amounts from Smokinlicious.    Of course, one cannot judge the two dust products by cost alone.  It would take a head to head comparison to see if both are the same quality and produce the same results.


Great point Dale!

I guess it's good Toyota doesn't sell gas (Petrol).

You could then buy a Dodge, Ford, or Chevy pickup for say $50,000, or a Toyterta for $40,000, but the Toyerta buyers would have to buy their special gas for only $15 per gallon (or maybe per "Liter").


----------



## chefrob

TJohnson said:


> LMFAO!!!!! = What's this mean?
> 
> Still learning lingo
> 
> Thx!
> 
> Todd


todd........laugh my f'n arse off


----------



## tjohnson

Got It!

THX!

TJ


----------



## scarbelly

Ian

I have been a very successful sales guy for nearly 40 years.  I am sure you have some success as well. One thing I have never done with any customer or potential customer is to be confrontational which is the approach that was taken in this forum.

If I went to a European site and started to spout my wares and tell folks I was the first one and that I have more units in the field I would expect that the folks on that forum would respond the same way many of us here did.  It may be that you lit a patriotic fire under some here but you also lit a fire under those of us who have been friends with Todd for a long time. Todd has supported everyone on this forum in one way or another thru donations or help with smokes. You jumped in here to hawk your product then mistakenly engaged some members is what can only be seen as argumentative.  That is flat out a marketing mistake and you are paying the price for it in negative publicity. 

I wish you the best of luck with your business but I for one will not be a customer


----------



## dale5351

Bear

The sawdust comparison is something that is independent of the smoker -- I think.  See no reason that either dust could not work in either device.  OTOH, I think I'll continue to dance with my original partner:-}}


----------



## DanMcG

Hey Todd  you mentioned earlier that you grind your own dust. Can I ask what you use to grind it with? curiosity has got me wondering.


----------



## meateater

Macsbbq said:


> Guys I think this has gone way too far...
> 
> The original question was "Has anyone had hands-on experience with both of these smokers? I didn't see anything in a search and hoped for a direct comparison" to which there were several (13) replies promoting the Ams, the only mention of the ProQ was regarding shipping costs. All I did was rectify that.
> 
> I now sincerely wish I had never posted on your forum, but it's too late for that.
> 
> Bearcarver, please see the image below of one of my 1st prototypes, which I made back in around June 2009, hence my remark on your "cheese" post. If what Todd says is true (and I believe he is right about the possibility of 2 people coming up with the same idea from different sides of the world). The reason I did not go with this original design, was that it only gave me around an 6 hour burn and I was aiming for 8 - 10, as that's the time I like my Lox to smoke for. I, like Todd, sent out units for people to try (I guess I've sent out around 40 for free so far).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have thought long and hard about this and have decided to honor my agreement to send units out to MossyMO and Dave54 for them to try. I honestly do not care if they write reviews or not, I'll leave that up to them to decide... I do know that 2 weeks ago enquired about advertising on this site, quite expensive compared to other similar forums, decision was going to be made this coming week, but hey you've all made it for me.
> 
> Thanks to all of you for listening and sorry to the OP for the way this thread has turned.
> 
> Ian McKend


Maybe you could fill out your profile?


----------



## tjohnson

DanMcG said:


> Hey Todd  you mentioned earlier that you grind your own dust. Can I ask what you use to grind it with? curiosity has got me wondering.




Dan,

It's a closely guarded secret, but if you don't tell anyone, I'll spill my guts.  I use a hammermill to grind my sawdust.  Recently, I purchased another unit as a back up, in the event the 1st one goes down.

There's absolutely no secret to sawdust.  "Sawdust is Sawdust", but the type and size may or may not burn well.  I don't B.S. my customers into thinking they have to buy from me.  If they have a friend or relative, who does woodwork, have them save the sawdust from their miter saw or table saw.  Just make sure it's clean and not contaminated with glue, MDF, Plywood or any other icky stuff that can make you sick.  I can fill 1/2 a 5 gallon pail with oak, maple or hickory when I trim a house out.

Todd


----------



## dale5351

TJohnson said:


>


I missed seeing that picture before in this thread.  That try did not fare too well!  Which brings me to the quote I just put into another first cheese post about experience coming from mistakes. 

Another question about your dust -- do you use the entire limb of wood, bark and all -- or do you use only the wood?

I had thought about going to an oak furniture store near me -- but then thought about the fact that they would not tend to care what was in their dust bin.  Sometimes pure oak, sometimes composition board.  The later would *NOT* be a good thing.


----------



## Bearcarver

dale5351 said:


> Bear
> 
> The sawdust comparison is something that is independent of the smoker -- I think.  See no reason that either dust could not work in either device.  OTOH, I think I'll continue to dance with my original partner:-}}




Dale,

I would have thought that too, because the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER works with various Dust, but according to the "Pro Q" instruction manual, it is designed for their special dust, or their dust is made for their smoker. It says other dusts may not give you the good results (paraphrasing). I didn't say that to put their smoker down--their manual says it, but maybe that is stated to sell their more expensive dust. So at least according to their manual, their dust is not independent of their smoker.


----------



## Bearcarver

dale5351 said:


> I missed seeing that picture before in this thread.  That try did not fare too well!  Which brings me to the quote I just put into another first cheese post about experience coming from mistakes.
> 
> Another question about your dust -- do you use the entire limb of wood, bark and all -- or do you use only the wood?
> 
> I had thought about going to an oak furniture store near me -- but then thought about the fact that they would not tend to care what was in their dust bin.  Sometimes pure oak, sometimes composition board.  The later would *NOT* be a good thing.


Dale,

I worked in two different Cabinet shops, and had my own Cabinet shop for 15 years. The two I worked for would not have been good, because all of our machines were tied into a network of dust collection branches. Everything went together. When I had my own shop, it would have been easy to separate my Radial Saw & my Table saw from the rest of my equipment. Radial saw, Table saw, Miter Saw---Good. Planer, Jointer, Shaper, Sanders, Lathe, Horizontal Boring Machine ----Bad. I could also clean them out easily, before changing woods, so it could all be Hickory, Oak, Cherry, and Maple, and no other crap. You would have to really be in good with a Cabinetmaker to get him to do that kind of thing.

Bear


----------



## tjohnson

Dale,

My answers are in "RED"
 


dale5351 said:


> I missed seeing that picture before in this thread.  That try did not fare too well!  Which brings me to the quote I just put into another first cheese post about experience coming from mistakes. Yea, the prototype was made of stainless steel screen material, and defintly had a meltdown upon ignition.  It did prove to me that a maze was going to work and lead me to produce the first 15 prototypes that were sent out to guys on SMF in April.
> 
> Another question about your dust -- do you use the entire limb of wood, bark and all -- or do you use only the wood?  Most of my products are a "By Product" of the lumber industry and the bark was removed long before it was kiln dried.  I use some chips, but mostly coarse sawdust and planer chips.  All goes into a grinder until I get the correct size.   It's kinda time consuming when you think of it!
> 
> I had thought about going to an oak furniture store near me -- but then thought about the fact that they would not tend to care what was in their dust bin.  Sometimes pure oak, sometimes composition board.  The later would *NOT* be a good thing.  I think it's a great idea for anyone to collect sawdust, as long as they can be sure if free from the stuff that will make you sick.  I can purchase a "Semi Load" of sawdust for $600, but it's full of the nasty stuff.  This is the sawdust that goes into heating pellets not BBQ pellets.  Cabinet shops are in the "Cabinet Business, not the "Sawdust Business", unless you find a small shop like Bear had and they are willing to save some clean sawdust for you.


Todd


----------



## dale5351

Bearcarver said:


> I could also clean them out easily, before changing woods, so it could all be Hickory, Oak, Cherry, and Maple, and no other crap. You would have to really be in good with a Cabinetmaker to get him to do that kind of thing.


You confirm my suspicions.  The place I am thinking of ( http://www.columbiaoak.com/   ) makes a lot of very good and solid stuff.  We have bought several pieces from them over the years.  I have been in what I think is one of the places where they make some of the stuff, about as big as a small grocery store -- doing all sorts of things.  Some of the things are solid oak.  Some of them are oak veneer on composition.  They will do other woods -- but as you said, I'm sure that their eye is on their profit margin for making furniture -- and sawdust is just a nuisance to them to be disposed of.  They'd have no reason for keeping it to one sort of wood.  Nor keeping any kind of uniformity on the size of the dust.  IOW, just not suitable for our purposes.


----------



## dale5351

Todd,

Your comment on that first prototype makes me think of our visit to Bed Bath and Beyond yesterday.  I saw a stainless steel wire mesh thing designed to use as a silverware drawer.  I told my wife that I'd bet that it would burn sawdust -- once!  Your picture is confirmation of that.


----------



## tjohnson

Maybe I should have come up with a "Disposable Smoker"

Naaaaah You guys would have never fallen for it

Todd


----------



## tjohnson

I contacted both MossyMo and Dave54 and offered to send then each a 6x6 A-MAZE-N-SMOKER for their review. 

Both responded "Yes."

Will wait for the results

Todd


----------



## scarbelly

Since I did not get a response to my post here I sent it as a PM and will report on the response if any


----------



## richoso1

Todd, I deleted your OOPS! postings.

Rich


----------



## tjohnson

Thx!

Can you throw an extra hundo in my bank account if I post my account #?

TJ


----------



## scarbelly

TJohnson said:


> Thx!
> 
> Can you throw an extra hundo in my bank account if I post my account #?
> 
> TJ




 Hey Todd just send me a PM and I got ya covered. Just be sure to include the routing # and your signature so they will accept the money


----------



## richoso1

TJohnson said:


> Thx!
> 
> Can you throw an extra hundo in my bank account if I post my account #?
> 
> TJ


Have you been talking to my wife? She's always asking me for the same...


----------



## tjohnson

Hey Dale!

Thanks for the "HEADS UP"!!!!

Quote:


dale5351 said:


> What is the cost of the sawdust?  I can look at Todd's web page and see dust sold in 1 lb lots and in 5 lb lots.  He passes on the shipping cost of US Priority mail without additional cost.  Hence 1 lb dust is 4.49 + 10.70 = 15.19 and 5 lb dust is 10.95 + 10.70 = 21.65 (ordering in 5 lb lots is a no-brainer choice).


I reviewed my shipping tables today.  The cost to ship 1# US Priority Flat Rate in now $4.75 and *No Longer* $10.70.  Big "OOPS" on My Part!!!

Just trying to stay competitive......

THX

Todd


----------



## chefrob

thx todd for fixing my shiping cost today.................. and this wasn't mine.........


> I reviewed my shipping tables today.  The cost to ship 1# US Priority Flat Rate in now $4.75 and *No Longer* $10.70.  Big "OOPS" on My Part!!!


----------



## dale5351

TJohnson said:


> I reviewed my shipping tables today.  The cost to ship 1# US Priority Flat Rate in now $4.75 and *No Longer* $10.70.  Big "OOPS" on My Part!!!
> 
> Just trying to stay competitive......


The $4.95 (4.75 with online purchase?) box is only 8 5/8 x 5 3/8 x 1 5/8.  That would be large enough for your 1 lb of dust, but not large enough for a 6x8 AMNS plus dust.  That would take the medium box -- $10.70.  How big a box is needed for 5-lb packages?  I'd guess medium would work for those.


----------



## tjohnson

Shipping Costs

1# Sawdust - $4.75 - USPS Flat Rate Mailing Envelope

AMNS Incl. 1# Sawdust = $10.70 - USPS Medium Flat Rate Box

AMNS Packages = $10.70 - USPS Medium Flat Rate Box

(5) 1# Sawdust Packages = $10.70 - USPS Medium Flat Rate Box

5# Bulk Sawdust = $10.70 - USPS Medium Flat Rate Shipper

"Free Shipping" = Yea Right! - The shipping cost is just built into the product cost!

Any order above10# usually ships cheaper with UPS.  I just adjusted my shipping tables at PayPal, but they just are not adequate for all the possible combinations.  When we receive an order, we manually check for the least expensive shipper and credit the customer for the difference.  I do not charge a "Handling Fee".

We're working on a new website that will give customers the option to choose their own shipper at checkout.  There's a dropdown with "REAL TIME RATES", so the customer can choose based on the cheapest price or fastest delivery time.  USPS Piority Mail is 2-3 days.  UPS Ground, can be up to 6 days, cost up to $10 less on a large package, depending on what zone it's going to.

Hope that helps!

TJ


----------



## Bearcarver

You could get UPS Ground from the UK too, but they haven't found a driver who can hold his breath long enough.


----------



## wntrlnd

I just found this thread today and was compelled to read all six pages of comments! * LOL @ myself!*

Just recently I have been thinking about buying a cold smoke generator and didn't even realize the amazen smoker was made by a SMF member.  I've seen random posts by Todd in various threads, but didn't realize he was the guy that made the product.

I'm happy I read the thread because I discovered it's important to insist on the larger size when I get my amazen!  Santa Claus has been notified!

Plus I'm really looking forward to how Ian's product matches up against Todd's in the head to head test. 

My compliments to both guys for offering up their products to the testers.  

It would be so cool if more manufacturers were confident enough in their products to publicly test them head to head like this!


----------



## stircrazy

I just finnished reading this all also.. wow, a lot of people here don't care about the product its self only that it is made in the USA.  not that I am saying one is better than the other.

Like others here I have found Todd very helpfull, especialy in trying to figure out an external smoker for my fridge build I am doing.  Heck I didn't even know he was the Todd of A-mazin untill about the 4th PM, then I was going to buy one but Todd told me it wouldn't work in that big of a smoker. 

what I got out of that was some one who cares more about the customer than selling his product.  he would rather not sell you one than have you not happy with it which is realy great. 

Todd if you design one that will smoke 20 CU^FT let me know.

Oh and when are you Americans going to get with the rest of the world and go metric? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   its much better to drive 100 than it is to drive 63

Steve


----------



## Bearcarver

stircrazy said:


> I just finnished reading this all also.. wow, a lot of people here don't care about the product its self only that it is made in the USA.  not that I am saying one is better than the other.
> 
> Like others here I have found Todd very helpfull, especialy in trying to figure out an external smoker for my fridge build I am doing.  Heck I didn't even know he was the Todd of A-mazin untill about the 4th PM, then I was going to buy one but Todd told me it wouldn't work in that big of a smoker.
> 
> what I got out of that was some one who cares more about the customer than selling his product.  he would rather not sell you one than have you not happy with it which is realy great.
> 
> Todd if you design one that will smoke 20 CU^FT let me know.
> 
> Oh and when are you Americans going to get with the rest of the world and go metric?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its much better to drive 100 than it is to drive 63
> 
> Steve


LOL---Do you have room for two of them in that monster?
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





If not, Todd could make you one, big enough, but you need a fork lift to get it to your smoker.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Todd will take care of you---Guaranteed!

Bear


----------



## stircrazy

Bearcarver said:


> LOL---Do you have room for two of them in that monster?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If not, Todd could make you one, big enough, but you need a fork lift to get it to your smoker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todd will take care of you---Guaranteed!
> 
> Bear


well, maybe..  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





    I just double checked the measurments..  its only 17 CU^FT so not as big as I thought.  was going on outside measurments and forgot about the wall thickness and the space taken up by the compressor.  I think I could fit 3 or 4 of them in there to tell you the truth, but that would be getting expensive.

Steve


----------



## geerock

Hey all,

New guy with his first post here and the first thing I have to do is thank everyone here for the info on the A MAZE N smoker.  I've been smoking for close to 20 years now and recently decided to try a Masterbuilt 40 electric so that I wouldn't have to light up the big side loader for doing smaller items or quantities.  Just used my new smoke box this weekend in my Masterbuilt 40.  I can't beleive how many problems the A MAZE N solved in one fell swoop.  First of all, the Masterbuilt has always had trouble producing mellow, blue smoke.  Because of the heat of the smoker box right over the element it flash burned chips and pellets, producing acrid, white smoke that only lasted 15 minutes or so with a lot of the smoke pouring out of the loader vents. To be honest, I was going to just use the thing for a warming oven for get togethers becuase I was simply not getting good flavor from this thing.   Now I simply put the A MAZE N smoker box on the rails under the water pan so that drippings don't get to it and I have great thin, blue, flavorful smoke that lasts for hours.  It also frees up the Masterbuilt chip trap so that when it gets chilly up here in New England, I can use the chip tray for lighting up a couple of chunks of hardwood lump charcoal to help the electric element to get up to temperature; something I would have to wait a couple of hours for before in cooler weather.  Being an environmental engineer I'm always glad to see a simple design product that works come along and that is exactly what the A MAZE N Smoker is.  Thanks Todd and the best of luck.  Happy Smokin' to all!


----------



## bmudd14474

Welcome to SMF. Glad to hear that the AMNS is working out for you.


----------



## jojo22

I just read through a good section of this post. I am new to cold smoking all together. If both companies would like I will buy one of each product under the understanding that whichever product is better will stay with me, and the other can be returned for a FULL refund, no matter which product it is. This would give IMO not only an unbiased opinion (as I am new here and really have no loyalties to any of the members) but a good exam of ease of use since I am new??

So what do you guys think?? I would think both would be happy to do so, and I'm not asking for any free product, just a "risk free" period in which to use both.


----------



## chefrob

jojo22 said:


> I just read through a good section of this post. I am new to cold smoking all together. If both companies would like I will buy one of each product under the understanding that whichever product is better will stay with me, and the other can be returned for a FULL refund, no matter which product it is. This would give IMO not only an unbiased opinion (as I am new here and really have no loyalties to any of the members) but a good exam of ease of use since I am new??
> 
> So what do you guys think?? I would think both would be happy to do so, and I'm not asking for any free product, just a "risk free" period in which to use both.


i'll try that the next time i'm at the dealership.......................LMAO!


----------



## jojo22

Dude we're talking about less than $100 worth of goods here, not 30-80+K!!

And I've been looking at both, and honestly I see advantages to both of them.


----------



## scarbelly

jojo22 said:


> Dude we're talking about less than $100 worth of goods here, not 30-80+K!!
> 
> And I've been looking at both, and honestly I see advantages to both of them.




 Then buy one! Try contacting any of the other cold smokers and making the same offer - what is the guy that you declare the "looser" going to do with the smoker you return? That is just rediculous


----------



## chefrob

jojo22 said:


> Dude we're talking about less than $100 worth of goods here, not 30-80+K!!
> 
> And I've been looking at both, and honestly I see advantages to both of them.


i'm not knocking you but it's not YOUR $100 now is it.................


----------



## jojo22

Uh, don't know, but I thought it a hell of a lot more fair than those on here asking for free units?? I mean come on, do they beg for other stuff too?? People that have neither unit jumping in and offering to "test" the ProQ, I think they should have just said hey I'm too cheap to buy one so please give it to me free!

Read my other posts, I am trying a cold smoke as I type, and if I like the results will be buying one of these two units, unlike others who just want something free!

And as for the comment about the dealership, go in and ask for a test drive, no deposit required!!


----------



## jojo22

chefrob said:


> jojo22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude we're talking about less than $100 worth of goods here, not 30-80+K!!
> 
> And I've been looking at both, and honestly I see advantages to both of them.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not knocking you but it's not YOUR $100 now is it.................
Click to expand...



Actually it is, $100 is both of them combined if you buy the package deals and pay for the shipping! These products probably cost the business less than $20 (for the unit, not including dust or tourches) to make, and both appear to want the comparison, sorry guess I shoudl have just jumed on the "give me free stuff" bandwagon, but somehow, that just felt like an internet version of looting??


----------



## jojo22

Chefrob: I tried to quote you but it said since I'm now it needed moderation. YES it would be my $100, that is the retail cost of both units combined (as starter packages). Really the cost to the loosing smoker maker would probably be less than $20-25 bucks, I mean relaly do you think they are making these items and not pulling some type of profit??

Guess next time I'll jump on being a "tester" to get out of paying for something!!


----------



## scarbelly

chefrob said:


> jojo22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude we're talking about less than $100 worth of goods here, not 30-80+K!!
> 
> And I've been looking at both, and honestly I see advantages to both of them.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not knocking you but it's not YOUR $100 now is it.................
Click to expand...

If you had some cold smoking chops it might be different but in your case it would just be a personal preferance and would not merit the review.  Please understand we are not trying to attack you but your thought process is flawed. A true tester is one with enough experience to make an honest evaluation.


----------



## jojo22

While I am new to cold smoking I am not new to smoking all together, how is my evaluation worth any less than any of the other people who have neither unit, what are they currently using to cold smoke??


----------



## rdknb

WOW all I can say is this is becoming more personal then it needs to be.  Attacks on others are so not needed. Lately I have been seeing SMF become us vs them.  That saddens me as the lack of that is what made this place different. What happened to we all just tell each other how we do it and maybe we all can learn?


----------



## chefrob

jojo22 said:


> Uh, don't know, but I thought it a hell of a lot more fair than those on here asking for free units?? I mean come on, do they beg for other stuff too?? People that have neither unit jumping in and offering to "test" the ProQ, I think they should have just said hey I'm too cheap to buy one so please give it to me free!
> 
> Read my other posts, I am trying a cold smoke as I type, and if I like the results will be buying one of these two units, unlike others who just want something free!
> 
> And as for the comment about the dealership, go in and ask for a test drive, no deposit required!!







jojo22 said:


> Chefrob: I tried to quote you but it said since I'm now it needed moderation. YES it would be my $100, that is the retail cost of both units combined (as starter packages). Really the cost to the loosing smoker maker would probably be less than $20-25 bucks, I mean relaly do you think they are making these items and not pulling some type of profit??
> 
> Guess next time I'll jump on being a "tester" to get out of paying for something!!


looks like the "quote" button is doing strange things tonight..........i had issues on another thread and right now i only wanted to quote the last one from you.........

anyway.........the offer to test was between 2 makers on their terms, i'm sure that offer has since expired. i do have an AMNS and i do like it. it works well for me, and i do like the ease, size, and it's versitility of it. i don't have or ever used the pro-q model so i can't say anything about it's perfomance. what i can say is the AMNS is made in the U.S.A. and is of US materials so I PERSONALY would rather spend my $$ helping out a US business and it's US suppliers in today's economic climate given that both are pretty close in price and performance. you see i have an F350 and i am glad to support an american company that didn't take any bailout $$. enough about that.........

what are some of the pros and cons that you see on either one......maybe i can help you with the AMNS since i have 2. and for the record i will tell you honestly what i have found with my trials. also what are you going to be smokeing and in what?


----------



## rdknb

I love my AMS  and I wonder the motavation of other to knock success down


----------



## chefrob

jojo22 said:


> While I am new to cold smoking I am not new to smoking all together, how is my evaluation worth any less than any of the other people who have neither unit, what are they currently using to cold smoke??


if a person already had one the the test would have been skewed.................i think a fair playing field was the tought.




jojo22 said:


> Chefrob: I tried to quote you but it said since I'm now it needed moderation. YES it would be my $100, that is the retail cost of both units combined (as starter packages). Really the cost to the loosing smoker maker would probably be less than $20-25 bucks, I mean relaly do you think they are making these items and not pulling some type of profit??
> 
> Guess next time I'll jump on being a "tester" to get out of paying for something!!


----------



## jojo22

Well to be honest the things I liked about each where the fact that the AMNS could be lit from both ends and was lit with a torch (not so fond of the candle idea, hot wax on my hands does not sound plesent, and with kids, it's near certain I would be bumped taking it back inside), on the other hand the spiral of the ProQ seems like it would stay a little cooler (I imagine that the tips of each "row" on the AMNS get hot as the cherry makes the turn to the next row). And temperature is obviously an issue when cold smoking.


----------



## tjohnson

jojo22,

What are your concerns about the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER?

What smoker are you using it in?

I personally own both units

TJ


----------



## scarbelly

Jojo22

What I was trying to say and obviously did not say it in the correct way, is why would a manufacturer want to put a unit in the hands of a person with no cold smoking experience as a test against another company.  One manufacturer might want to give one to someone with no experience to see how they did with it and see how they could improve it for someone learning the process. To assume that two manufactureres would spend that money in a heads on competition is not something worth their investment. I am not saying you are not a fair person or a good judge. Business does not work that way. I have worked for both large and small companies and have never seen any of them take this path. 

I think I understand that you were trying to offer to test and give an opinion but in most cases where it is a side by side they usually want someone with experience to test the process

Sorry if I did not put it in the right words. I have been laying tile and brick all weekend and am probably grumpy


----------



## chefrob

i agree i didn't like the candle idea. i don't think it makes a difference on the hot sides if you don't grab where the cherry is.....there are 3 sides, 2 if you light both ends to grab it, if you need to move it. when i light the AMNS i pick it up with my bare hand with out an issue of burning myself. once it is in my smoker i just leave it until it's done. as for the temp and heating up my smoker i have not had any issues and i live where my smokers can be up to 140 deg just sitting there with no fire.  what are you going to be smoking in?


----------



## jojo22

Please see my above post, currently I am smoking in a box, but as soon as i am done cleaning and re-seasoning my CG I will be using that instead. 

The AMNS just seems like it would get warmer during the smoke as the cherry would pass the same row "partition" twice in a much shorter period of time, meaning it would not cool as much before the cherry hit it again.


----------



## chefrob

Scarbelly said:


> I have been laying tile and brick all weekend and am probably grumpy


i would be too...............next time try the wifey!


----------



## scarbelly

chefrob said:


> Scarbelly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been laying tile and brick all weekend and am probably grumpy
> 
> 
> 
> i would be too...............next time try the wifey!
Click to expand...

Not going there on this forum - send me an email when you get a chance

G


----------



## Bearcarver

LOL---I thought this game was played, and the USA quality Stainless Steel construction with superior performance won 38,000 to 0.

Must be a "Re-Run".

I'm changing channels!


----------



## zul

I just read this entire (currently) 8 page thread and this is the most inspired and intuitive comment thus far and I appreciate your insight about the products.

This ProQ v AMNS battle is interesting. I currently live in the UK and can honestly say that before I purchased the ProQ cold smoke generator and discovered this forum I had no idea that the AMNS even existed. My suggestion to Todd would be that he needs to expand his brand abroad and at least associate similar search terms with his product as it did not appear on any of my searches when I was researching which product to purchase. As a consumer having choice is what, in my opinion, keeps industries accountable and encourages improvements and ensures that we as consumers have access to the best possible product available. If I don’t know you exist, I loose my ability to decide and instead have to settle for what I can find.

After receiving the ProQ CSG and using it for the first time I can say that it worked well however the durability of the wire meshing used in its construction is of slight concern. Like others who flagged up some of the disadvantages of the candle light method, I use a small cook’s torch to get the smoulder started and wondered if I was possibly damaging the meshing while doing so. Aside from that I would say it does what it says on the tin however I plan to pay much closer attention to some of the details that other posters brought up such as the capacity, burn times and temperatures and ease of use.

Seriously, all of this posturing is pretty silly. With that said I happen to also agree with Scarbelly about handling yourself in a professional manner regardless of the situation especially if you are representing a company which you are promoting. I’m afraid that Ian, in this situation, you have let yourself down. Also I feel like members of this board have got carried away with patriotic behavior and certainly haven’t put your most objective foot forward.

I am happy that there is a forum for this type of discussion (I know there are many but this is one of the best) and I look forward to learning as much as possible from my fellow posters and mods as well as from the various sales people with the latest and greatest. What I am not interested in is country or culture bashing in the name of patriotism. To me that is a played-out record, not to mention has nothing to do with gloriously smoked meats.

In the immortal words of Rodney King; ‘Can’t we all just get along’ and eat smoked meat?


----------



## BGKYSmoker

I think i said this before maybe.

Why would you want a candle making residue into your smoker?

Get the AMNS way better


----------



## SmokinAl

No need to comment other than we've been here before & the AMNS always wins.


----------



## Bearcarver

ZUL said:


> I just read this entire (currently) 8 page thread and this is the most inspired and intuitive comment thus far and I appreciate your insight about the products.
> 
> This ProQ v AMNS battle is interesting. I currently live in the UK and can honestly say that before I purchased the ProQ cold smoke generator and discovered this forum I had no idea that the AMNS even existed. My suggestion to Todd would be that he needs to expand his brand abroad and at least associate similar search terms with his product as it did not appear on any of my searches when I was researching which product to purchase. As a consumer having choice is what, in my opinion, keeps industries accountable and encourages improvements and ensures that we as consumers have access to the best possible product available. If I don’t know you exist, I loose my ability to decide and instead have to settle for what I can find.
> 
> After receiving the ProQ CSG and using it for the first time I can say that it worked well however the durability of the wire meshing used in its construction is of slight concern. Like others who flagged up some of the disadvantages of the candle light method, I use a small cook’s torch to get the smoulder started and wondered if I was possibly damaging the meshing while doing so. Aside from that I would say it does what it says on the tin however I plan to pay much closer attention to some of the details that other posters brought up such as the capacity, burn times and temperatures and ease of use.
> 
> Seriously, all of this posturing is pretty silly. With that said I happen to also agree with Scarbelly about handling yourself in a professional manner regardless of the situation especially if you are representing a company which you are promoting. I’m afraid that Ian, in this situation, you have let yourself down. Also I feel like members of this board have got carried away with patriotic behavior and certainly haven’t put your most objective foot forward.
> 
> I am happy that there is a forum for this type of discussion (I know there are many but this is one of the best) and I look forward to learning as much as possible from my fellow posters and mods as well as from the various sales people with the latest and greatest. What I am not interested in is country or culture bashing in the name of patriotism. To me that is a played-out record, not to mention has nothing to do with gloriously smoked meats.
> 
> In the immortal words of Rodney King; ‘Can’t we all just get along’ and eat smoked meat?


I can't remember Rodney saying that.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Let's also not confuse Blind Patriotism with the ability to know that good old American Perforated Stainless Steel Plate is much better construction material than British window screen, or American window screen , or window screen from any other country.

To say something is made better just because it is made in one country over another is indeed questionable, although proven many times in the durability of "made in America" items (when you can find such a thing), but I'm sure if anyone compares the material & workmanship between the two items, they will see the differences.

As for how hot the AMNS gets (from jojo22) because it passes through the same area twice, in the maze pattern, instead of the window screen's circular pattern, I can assure you that the heat that was at that part of the AMNS is completely gone in minutes, and nowhere around when the heat comes back through that same area.

Bear


----------



## alaskanbear

X1000 what Bear said..


----------



## zul

Point taken about better construction = better product however I would still shy away from branding anything Made in USA superior.

Anyway, I guess when my ProQ CSG mesh burns out I will replace it with the AMNS. Assuming it works the same with a more durable build quality, seems like a no-brainer.

No harm, no foul.


----------



## tjohnson

ZUL,

I've received requests from a number of dealers in the UK and Europe to sell my A-MAZE-N-SMOKER.  Shipping costs are an issue with most of them, but I do sell my A-MAZE-N-SMOKE thru a dealer in Sweden and another in Australia.  "Made In USA" was an important feature for both the dealers, mostly because the United States is a leader in the BBQ industry.  This not to say other countries can't make decent BBQ products, it's just that BBQ is associated with the country that invented it.

By keeping my fabrication local, I can make changes on the fly.  If I relied on a fabricator in China, I could wait 6 months or more for delivery, and not have the ability to make changes.

Bear is correct, that the area at the turn does not contribute to the fire jumping of rows.  It can happen when temps inside the smoker get above 180°.  There are a few tricks we use, so the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER can be used at higher temps.

Todd


----------



## stwallace

AMNS performs, simple to use, and great quality w/ out a doubt PERIOD. 
[h1]“Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country”[/h1]
(Calvin Coolidge)

Sean


----------



## teesquare

> it's just that BBQ is associated with the country that invented it.


So...what you are sayin' Todd is that MADE IN CHINA is a good thing???











...I mean - they have been BBQ'ing for 5000 years....That is a _little _before we invented it here in the good ole USA..... Just teasing you about that statement...WE have become known world wide for our BBQ - I think that was what you meant. BTW - I have the 6x8 Amazin Smoker - and I really like it a lot. I do like to support made in the USA. ( That is why I bought a Yoder pellet grill vs a Treager or GMG, etc)......


----------



## stwallace

Haha, Tees.....  I didn't want to be the one to say it.  "In Europe smoking meats was practiced for thousands of years before the discovery of America and it was a necessary survival skill."  But I still stand by the AMNS.

Sean


----------



## africanmeat

Let me add my 5 cent worth . first well done Todd for keeping manufacturing in the USA and not  in china . my last tread show in Vegas last year most off the items were imported from china or India, no more made in the USA. pity.well done Todd.

i bought a  proQ that is the only one sold in south Africa am i  happy with it ? no i am not it is to sensitive to the type off wood and the thickens off the wood(powder)

i can't wait for my Friend to arrive from oh with my A-MAZE-N .


----------



## tjohnson

teesquare,

Cooking food with wood and/or smoking it, predates BBQ in the the United States by centuries, but the term "BBQ" as we know it, was invented in the United States.

People around the world associate "Modern BBQ" with the U.S., just like the American Cowboy or the game of Baseball.

It's important for me to keep my little gadget Made In U.S.A.

Once you go to China for fabrication, the cheaper knockoffs hit the market almost immediately.  Having a product manufactured in the U.S.A gives you  some control over production and some patent protection.  Once it hits China, there's no protection whatsoever!

TJ


----------



## Bearcarver

TJohnson said:


> teesquare,
> 
> Cooking food with wood and/or smoking it, predates BBQ in the the United States by centuries, but the term "BBQ" as we know it, was invented in the United States.
> 
> People around the world associate "Modern BBQ" with the U.S., just like the American Cowboy or the game of Baseball.
> 
> It's important for me to keep my little gadget Made In U.S.A.
> 
> Once you go to China for fabrication, the cheaper knockoffs hit the market almost immediately.  Having a product manufactured in the U.S.A gives you  some control over production and some patent protection.  Once it hits China, there's no protection whatsoever!
> 
> TJ


Too bad Henry Ford didn't invent charcoal 5,000 years ago, so Europe & China could use it.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Bear


----------



## roller

I do not own one but I am sure I will some day.  Rodney WHO !!!!!!!


----------



## stwallace

Well said Todd!  Rodney WHO!!! lol

Sean


----------



## tjohnson

Rodney the MILLIONAIRE!

TJ


----------



## laszlo

Greetings from Australia - I have one of 6x8 AMNS's purchased from Todd's australian dealer (Andrea at Misty Gully). I've contacted Todd personally first, not knowing that he had a dealer in this remote part of the world.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 Anyway, he pointed me to Andrea, got AMNS and couple of bags of dust suitable for AMNS and I was set. In the process I've become friend with Andrea, getting some very valuable tips and tricks regarding meat processing, smoking etc. Later on I bought new remote Maverick thermometer and some other bits and pieces of gear from MG.

AMNS had burned thru almost 50 full loads, so far no problems, it works like a charm. I mentioned in one of my posts that I considered my purchase of AMNS as my purchase of the year - performance/buck ratio is colossal.

After each smoking session I clean it with wire brush, soak it overnight in bleach solution bath and overnight bath in clean water. This thing looks like new, apart from light blue-ish discoloration around torch holes. I believe that with proper care AMNS could last for decades.

One more observation (and this thread may not be the right place, but while I'm on the rant...). I believe that 6x8 design could be made even better!

I’ve proven it to myself that it is quite important to have AMNS positioned that there is sufficient bottom draft. In one experiment (rainy, crappy day, nothing else to do, so lets play with the fire, right?) I've placed strips of AL foil on the bottom of the maze channels. After burn there was a layer of unburned dust all over the bottom. I noticed that unburned layer on the edge channels after every smoke, whereas the middle channel leaves only burned ash. See photo evidence (the middle is still unburned, but believe me, the middle channel leaves only black dust):







I think that this is caused by bottom feet obstructing perforated holes over the length of the channel. If the feet were welded parallel with short side, the fire will "jump" over the feet across, rather than traveling along the whole length of each foot. That extra metal also dissipates cherry heat plus obstructs the bottom holes. Second benefit is that (according to my friend, mechanical engineer), it will help to "stiffen the assembly" as 6x8 is prone to warp on long diagonal axis. Thirdly, there is possible cost saving on material.

Also, (I'm probably nitpicking here) if it would be possible to line up holes on bottom flange of maze partitions with bottom plate and then spot weld it, it would ensure better airflow thru the bottom plate. On my AMNS one channel has only one row of visible holes, the other channel has the flange aligned; has four or five rows of unobstructed holes.

I know, it sounds complicated, but look thru AMNS against light and you'd know what I mean.

All this to save a pinch of dust. Just kiddin'. It is about making already great product even better.

 Cheers and happy smoking...


----------



## stwallace

Interesting.....


----------



## Bearcarver

Laszlo said:


> Greetings from Australia - I have one of 6x8 AMNS's purchased from Todd's australian dealer (Andrea at Misty Gully). I've contacted Todd personally first, not knowing that he had a dealer in this remote part of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, he pointed me to Andrea, got AMNS and couple of bags of dust suitable for AMNS and I was set. In the process I've become friend with Andrea, getting some very valuable tips and tricks regarding meat processing, smoking etc. Later on I bought new remote Maverick thermometer and some other bits and pieces of gear from MG.
> 
> AMNS had burned thru almost 50 full loads, so far no problems, it works like a charm. I mentioned in one of my posts that I considered my purchase of AMNS as my purchase of the year - performance/buck ratio is colossal.
> 
> After each smoking session I clean it with wire brush, soak it overnight in bleach solution bath and overnight bath in clean water. This thing looks like new, apart from light blue-ish discoloration around torch holes. I believe that with proper care AMNS could last for decades.
> 
> One more observation (and this thread may not be the right place, but while I'm on the rant...). I believe that 6x8 design could be made even better!
> 
> I’ve proven it to myself that it is quite important to have AMNS positioned that there is sufficient bottom draft. In one experiment (rainy, crappy day, nothing else to do, so lets play with the fire, right?) I've placed strips of AL foil on the bottom of the maze channels. After burn there was a layer of unburned dust all over the bottom. I noticed that unburned layer on the edge channels after every smoke, whereas the middle channel leaves only burned ash. See photo evidence (the middle is still unburned, but believe me, the middle channel leaves only black dust):
> 
> I think that this is caused by bottom feet obstructing perforated holes over the length of the channel. If the feet were welded parallel with short side, the fire will "jump" over the feet across, rather than traveling along the whole length of each foot. That extra metal also dissipates cherry heat plus obstructs the bottom holes. Second benefit is that (according to my friend, mechanical engineer), it will help to "stiffen the assembly" as 6x8 is prone to warp on long diagonal axis. Thirdly, there is possible cost saving on material.
> 
> Also, (I'm probably nitpicking here) if it would be possible to line up holes on bottom flange of maze partitions with bottom plate and then spot weld it, it would ensure better airflow thru the bottom plate. On my AMNS one channel has only one row of visible holes, the other channel has the flange aligned; has four or five rows of unobstructed holes.
> 
> I know, it sounds complicated, but look thru AMNS against light and you'd know what I mean.
> 
> All this to save a pinch of dust. Just kiddin'. It is about making already great product even better.
> 
> Cheers and happy smoking...


That doesn't sound complicated to me, because Todd & I talked about that problem a while back. I think Todd has already fixed that on newer models. One of my newest ones has the feet in an "X" pattern. It solves both the blocked air flow problem you mentioned, yet it keeps the AMNS from twisting & warping from the heat.

Good eye though!

Bear


----------



## stwallace

No wonder I was kind of confused, I must have the newer one..  I got the X too.  Worked fine.  Very small amount of dust left over.  Plus it doesn't get much air flow inside the MES.  I was actually wondering about that as well.


----------



## laszlo

Bearcarver said:


> I think Todd has already fixed that on newer models. One of my newest ones has the feet in an "X" pattern. It solves both the blocked air flow problem you mentioned, yet it keeps the AMNS from twisting & warping from the heat.


Good to hear that. Are these changes done on 6x6 as well? Thinking of getting one for short cheese smokes, or give extra oomph and work as duo with 6x8 when smoking sausages.


----------



## Bearcarver

Laszlo said:


> Good to hear that. Are these changes done on 6x6 as well? Thinking of getting one for short cheese smokes, or give extra oomph and work as duo with 6x8 when smoking sausages.


I believe so, but I'll have to check with Todd. The X pattern was originally to keep them from warping, but I know it solved the air flow thing we noticed too.

You're the first one to mention that, other than Todd & his testers.

I'll check with him, but you can too, before you get a 6 X 6.

I'll let you know as soon as I find out.

Bear


----------



## laszlo

Cheers mate.


----------



## Bearcarver

Laszlo said:


> Cheers mate.


Todd said, "Yes the newer 6 X 6 has the X pattern feet too".

Here is where another guy "Pokey" noticed it, and a picture of the correction:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/106689/1st-lox-smoke-w-modified-amns#post_636793

Bear


----------



## tjohnson

Hey Laszlo!

Thanks for the input!!!

The AMNS has evolved quite a bit since the 1st 15 were sent out for testing in March/April 2010.  I took the recommendations from the guys testing, and incorporated most of them into the 6x6 and 6x8.  As more people used the AMNS, more ideas and comments came in.  Some were incorporated, and some not.  Every batch I had fabricated, included some minor changes, based on recommendations from customers.

Some Customers were using my little gadget at high temps and it had a tendency to warp or twist.  I figure if my customers were using it this way, I needed to make a change to keep it from warping.  We came up with the "X" Pattern legs to strengthen the AMNS.  On the first trial run of the new prototype, I immediately noticed the 1st row burned a little faster and the sawdust burned more completely.  WOW!!  The light bulb went off!!!  The new "X" Pattern also increased airflow.  What a bonus!

When the guys are assembling the AMNS, they're supposed to line up the holes, so they are not covered.  Some units, like the one Pokey received, had almost all the holes in the first row covered.  In a smoker with good draft, this may not an issue, but in a smoker with marginal draft, the AMNS just does not perform as expected.  On the latest batch, I even went a step farther, and eliminated about 2/3 of the divider leg that is welded to the base.  The only reason for the divider leg is to attach the divider to the base.

The new "X" Pattern was incorporated in February/March, and included on all new 6x6's and 6x8's since.  The modification to the divider legs was just incorporated on the latest batch I had fabricated.

Here's a pic showing the progression of the legs.  Left is the original design.  Middle is new "X" Pattern tack welded with a mig welder.  Right is the new "X" Pattern spot welded.







Here's a pic of the change to the dividers.  Notice the welding tabs are much smaller on the version on the right,







If a customer wants to send their AMNS back to me, I'll retrofit their AMNS with the new updated "X" Pattern Legs, and send it back to them with a 1# bag of Hickory Sawdust.  Customer pays for shipping to me and I'll pay for shipping back.

Todd


----------



## pokey

Todd,

You said "There are a few tricks we use, so the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER can be used at higher temps." What are the tricks? Enquiring minds want (need) to know! I want to recommend the AMNS to a friend who smokes in his Weber grill. He tends the temp carefully, but he doesn't get the smoke he'd like from the aluminum foil pouches or the cast chip boxes.

Thanks in adbvance,

Pokey


----------



## tjohnson

Pokey said:


> Todd,
> 
> You said "There are a few tricks we use, so the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER can be used at higher temps." What are the tricks? Enquiring minds want (need) to know! I want to recommend the AMNS to a friend who smokes in his Weber grill. He tends the temp carefully, but he doesn't get the smoke he'd like from the aluminum foil pouches or the cast chip boxes.
> 
> Thanks in adbvance,
> 
> Pokey




Keep the middle row empty, and the fire can't jump rows.

Create a heat shield to deflect direct heat around the AMNS.  Place the AMNS in a pan or on top a tile.  Some guys use a small cast iron pan.

Does this help?

Todd


----------



## jc1947

Bearcarver said:


> LOL,
> 
> No offense, but if you now ship from the US, you might want to use ounces & pounds, instead of "g".
> 
> That would make it easier for guys like me who don't think it should be the buyers job to look up a conversion chart, especially if that product is being sold in the USA.
> 
> The site I found had 50 L as the price (My computer can't even make that squirrely little L with a line through it).
> 
> Toyota & Datsun have plants in the US too, but some of us still look at them as "Foreign" cars.
> 
> Bear


*More than some, Bear*


----------



## jc1947

Bearcarver said:


> LOL,
> 
> No offense, but if you now ship from the US, you might want to use ounces & pounds, instead of "g".
> 
> That would make it easier for guys like me who don't think it should be the buyers job to look up a conversion chart, especially if that product is being sold in the USA.
> 
> The site I found had 50 L as the price (My computer can't even make that squirrely little L with a line through it).
> 
> Toyota & Datsun have plants in the US too, but some of us still look at them as "Foreign" cars.
> 
> Bear


*More than some, Bear*


----------



## jjwdiver

We are supposed to wash these things?   Dang...now I gotta clean it and the Mrs. will think she was right. It never ends!


----------



## vargard

TJohnson said:


> ZUL,
> 
> I've received requests from a number of dealers in the UK and Europe to sell my A-MAZE-N-SMOKER.  Shipping costs are an issue with most of them, but I do sell my A-MAZE-N-SMOKE thru a dealer in Sweden and another in Australia.  "Made In USA" was an important feature for both the dealers, mostly because the United States is a leader in the BBQ industry.  This not to say other countries can't make decent BBQ products, it's just that BBQ is associated with the country that invented it.
> 
> By keeping my fabrication local, I can make changes on the fly.  If I relied on a fabricator in China, I could wait 6 months or more for delivery, and not have the ability to make changes.
> 
> Bear is correct, that the area at the turn does not contribute to the fire jumping of rows.  It can happen when temps inside the smoker get above 180°.  There are a few tricks we use, so the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER can be used at higher temps.
> 
> Todd


Hi.

  I have been looking for A-Maze-N Smoker in Sweden for a while, but the only thing I find is the Smart Smoker. Is that it? Shipment from the United States must be expensive for 6x6 "costs 59.50 USD and 6x8" costs 70.00 USD. Even the chips are on the high side, 14 USD for 1 lb. with one variety to choose from, beech. It's almost cheaper to go to USA and buy from you directly. Maybe on a vacation some time? The customs authorities might wonder when I get home if I have my bag full of dust and pellets.

Vargard


----------



## tjohnson

Vargard said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have been looking for A-Maze-N Smoker in Sweden for a while, but the only thing I find is the Smart Smoker. Is that it? Shipment from the United States must be expensive for 6x6 "costs 59.50 USD and 6x8" costs 70.00 USD. Even the chips are on the high side, 14 USD for 1 lb. with one variety to choose from, beech. It's almost cheaper to go to USA and buy from you directly. Maybe on a vacation some time? The customs authorities might wonder when I get home if I have my bag full of dust and pellets.
> 
> Vargard




Yes, the Smart Smoker is the name my dealer in Sweden uses.

A-MAZE-N-SMOKER did not seem to translate very well

It is the same as the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER

Todd


----------



## smokin - k

I own a AMZN Pellet and have never been happier. Burns dust and pellets. Inexpensive to purchase and inexpensive to feed. Buy yourself a ET-732 Maverick remote thermometer while your at it... Now that I'm done spending your money I will go back to work. USA all the way... I don't believe in any thing metric. Unless I'm buying a bag of.... LOL! Happy Smoking, Smokin - K


----------



## hardslicer

you had me at MADE IN AMERICA......plus anyone who has done business with Todd knows exactly what they will get....first class service by a business owner who cares


----------



## homebrew

I got bored and read all 9 pages - I have to admit I had a good laugh. For the record I own a AMNS and although I only used it a few times I love it.


----------



## checkerfred

is it possible to use chips in the model that allows dust and pellets?


----------



## jwsailor

well I had to get my A-Maze-N out and hold it up to the light. I see what you mean now. The holes in the dividers do not line up with the holes in the bottom, except for one divider. I thought that some rows were burning faster than others and leaving some dust in  some, but I never thought to hold it up to the light and check the alignment of the holes.


----------



## michael ark

Todd has definitely contributed.I copy and paste stole them.Thanks Todd


----------



## tjohnson

checkerfred said:


> is it possible to use chips in the model that allows dust and pellets?


Sorry Fred, Chips are too coarse to burn

Todd


----------



## clarego

all things considered and i hate to say this the price is what gets me. i can make one cheeper than buying this product. unless you can proove me wrong ? i know people are always looking for stuff thats ready to go but come on !!


----------



## billyj571

clarego said:


> all things considered and i hate to say this the price is what gets me. i can make one cheeper than buying this product. unless you can proove me wrong ? i know people are always looking for stuff thats ready to go but come on !!




can you make ,e one to.....


----------



## teesquare

Not to pick at either of you - but...really guys, what a cheap shot!

We can ALL likely make a product or a knock off of a product cheaper than we can buy it, but that really guts the incentive of someone like TJ to want to produce newer better things  - doesn't it?

If you like the _concept, then why not use your own brain power and come up with something original rather than just steal someones idea to save a FEW dollars.....????_

Bear in mind - if your complaint is "times are hard"..then perhaps you should not even spend the small sum of money you plan on spending to save even less!!!!

Sermon over - my apologies for any embarrassment, I just hate see this kind of post.

T


----------



## tatonka3a2

I thought I had commented on this subject months ago... but looks like I was wrong.  We have tested both products to give a side by side comparison and I will order the A-Maze-N smoker all day long over the ProQ.  Not to say that the ProQ doesn't do the job it says it will, its you can do more with the A-Maze-N smoker and the quality is hands down better. 

With the ProQ all you can do is cold smoke.... nothing more.  The quality of the mesh will not last a couple of high heat smokes.  However the A-Maze-N smokers (both the dust and the pellet one) will smoke in what ever temp we want and will last as long as we are smoking. 

After 1 washing of the ProQ it was covered in rust.  I washed, rinsed, and tried the best I could to dry it off and sat it on the counter - next day rust started to appear.  With the A-Maze-N smoker I have left that sit in a sink of water for a couple of days (i forgot it) and dried it off and there was no rust at all. 

Great product Todd!!  I have and will continue to recommend this to all my friends. 

Thanks,
Tanya


----------



## mossymo

clarego said:


> all things considered and i hate to say this the price is what gets me. i can make one cheeper than buying this product. unless you can proove me wrong ? i know people are always looking for stuff thats ready to go but come on !!
> 
> clarego
> 
> If you had this product in your hands, I am confident in saying you would not make that post. I thought about challenging you to make an equal in quality/craftsmanship/material product for less money (I know what the out come would be), but decided that would get drawn out overtime and most likely forgot about.
> 
> So to put my money where my mouth is on this product, I will guarantee you will be happy with the product and the price. If you are not happy a month after receiving it, send it to me and I will reimburse you the purchase price plus shipping. I am not related to the seller of the product; just a satisfied, confident customer.
> 
> Using with a Char Griller Super Pro I would recommend placing it under a smoking grate on the heat baffle; and if there is food product over it that may drip grease, folding a piece of aluminum foil to tent and prevent the sawdust or pellets from extinguishing.
> 
> I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the the product.


----------



## scarbelly

Hey brother. If it comes to that let me know - I have someone I need to buy one for and will gladly help you with this


----------



## ptcruiserguy

Wingman said:


> IMHO, I believe it's good to have venders be apart of these forums providing they play well with each other. They should be posting not only thgeir product but howto use them efficiently and videos of demonstrations smoking different products would be nice. They should not be allowed to discuss the short comings or flaws of other products.They should be focused on feilding questions on their products.  I'm not saying this has happened. I'm syaing it shouldn't happen. Tell us what it is, how it works, all the features. Pass some out if you wish. All this with the permission of the forum owner and moderators blessing. This forum is a diverse crowd and I believe a fair crowd. Honestly if the two do the same thing , are equal in build and cost along with customer support, you may find as Americans folks go with a USA made product. Some will do so anyway. Thats patriotism and you won't ever avoid that. As Todd stated, both can co habitate in this big world. But do it with integrity and don't worry about the other guys success or failures within the forum walls, worry about yours. Better yet, worry about the customers success using your product and service #1!
> 
> You will find that folks will gravitate to both. So lets start seeing some smoking with your products. Show us what you have and show us some Qview!
> 
> Sorry for the long post...




I am new here and have posted very little, but from what I have been reading, I have to agree with wingman here. Just my 2cents.


----------



## alelover

clarego said:


> all things considered and i hate to say this the price is what gets me. i can make one cheeper than buying this product. unless you can proove me wrong ? i know people are always looking for stuff thats ready to go but come on !!


I doubt you can build one cheaper than Todd. His is stainless. Have you priced out perforated stainless lately. $$$$. Oh, and labor cost money too. You probably can make one cheaper. I did. And it works great. But the metal was free and I don't charge myself for labor. And it's not stainless. It wasn't that easy to make correctly either and get it to burn right. I have a lifetime of metalworking experience too. If I wasn't so cheap and didn't have the metal laying around anyway I'd easily shell out 30 bucks for one. I do buy his dust however.


----------



## teesquare

Wingman said:


> IMHO, I believe it's good to have venders be apart of these forums providing they play well with each other. They should be posting not only thgeir product but howto use them efficiently and videos of demonstrations smoking different products would be nice. They should not be allowed to discuss the short comings or flaws of other products.They should be focused on feilding questions on their products. I'm not saying this has happened. I'm syaing it shouldn't happen. Tell us what it is, how it works, all the features. Pass some out if you wish. All this with the permission of the forum owner and moderators blessing. This forum is a diverse crowd and I believe a fair crowd. Honestly if the two do the same thing , are equal in build and cost along with customer support, you may find as Americans folks go with a USA made product. Some will do so anyway. Thats patriotism and you won't ever avoid that. As Todd stated, both can co habitate in this big world. But do it with integrity and don't worry about the other guys success or failures within the forum walls, worry about yours. Better yet, worry about the customers success using your product and service #1!
> 
> You will find that folks will gravitate to both. So lets start seeing some smoking with your products. Show us what you have and show us some Qview!
> 
> Sorry for the long post...


I am new here and have posted very little, but from what I have been reading, I have to agree with wingman here. Just my 2cents  

*I think you will find that another attitude exists here you may not have picked up on yet...."If it ain't broke - WHY try to fix it? "*


----------



## buttburner

Hello gang. New guy here, first post.

I have been on Jeff's site for a while and have his recipies and enjoy his site very much.

I ordered an AMNPS and it should be in my mailbox when I get home.

Now my question is, I read through all of this after searching for info on it and saw this thread, was the comparison reports ever done?

Or are they in another area of the site?

All this reading and was really looking forward to the head to head

thanks


----------



## wood chuck

I got the amnps & am well satisfied with the results I'v been getting , No reason to fix what ain't broke. :~)


----------



## wood chuck

Macsbbq said:


> Perhaps Todd would be willing to send out a sample to the same people I am sending to, as neither of them has tried either unit, I think we would then get a fair comparison.


Ian , what type of metal is your ProQ made of ? Will it rust?


----------



## drbearsec

Woodchuck:  You do know that Macs comment was 2 years ago right?


----------



## rednek-

TJohnson said:


> *A-MAZE-N-FACTS*
> 
> *"MADE IN USA"*
> 
> _"Patent Pending"_ In the *USA*
> Will Not Rust - 100% *U.S.* *Stainless Steel*
> Fabricated Locally from #304 Stainless Steel  Supplied by *U.S*. *Steel Companies*
> Ships With 1 Full Pound of Hickory From the *USA *- Enough for (4) Smokes in the 6x6
> Can Be Used for _Both_ Cold & Hot Smoking
> *Does Not Require* Any Electricity - Can Use a Lighter, Micro Torch or Propane Torch
> Light Both Ends for More Smoke and Light the Center for Even More Smoke!!
> 6"x6" Will "Conservatively" Smoke for 6-8+ hours and the 6"x8" for 8-10+
> (2) Sizes Currently Available 6"x6"x1.125" & 6"x8"x1.375"
> Custom Sizes Available Upon Request!!!
> 8"x8"x1.5" for Larger Smokers & More Smoke Available Soon
> Very Sweet Smelling Thin Blue Smoke
> No Sticky Creosote
> Easy To Clean
> 15 Varieties of 100% Natural Sawdust Available From *U.S.* *Suppliers*
> Over a Ton of Sawdust On-Hand
> A-MAZE-N Customer Service!!!
> Dealer Inquiries Welcome!!!
> 
> *U.S. Dollars Stay In the USA!!! - Order, Fab & Ship with 100% U.S. Companies!!!*
> Thanks for all the support!!!!
> 
> Todd Johnson


Todd,

I take it that things have changed?

I received my pellet smoker this week (December 2012) and I was disappointed with the *Made In China *label on it.

If I woud have known that I wouldn't have purchased it.


----------



## tjohnson

Rednek- said:


> Todd,
> 
> I take it that things have changed?
> 
> I received my pellet smoker this week (December 2012) and I was disappointed with the *Made In China *label on it.
> 
> If I woud have known that I wouldn't have purchased it.


Rednek

If, _*for any reason*_, you want to return your gadget, I'm happy to take it back and refund your $$$.

There's more to it than I care to share on an open forum, but be assured that the decision was not made hastily.

I still offer A-MAZE-N Customer Service!!!

Todd


----------



## smoking b

I didn't see a made in China sticker on the one I ordered Cyber Monday.


----------



## themule69

WOW 198 GOT ME.  i love the gadget. have the gadget. just read post 1 thru 199 so i am 200 WOW


----------



## chefboyartie

just a thanks for the info will try this chefboyartie . it the simple thing in life.


----------



## roger shoaf

Vargard said:


> ...  It's almost cheaper to go to USA and buy from you directly. Maybe on a vacation some time? The customs authorities might wonder when I get home if I have my bag full of dust and pellets.
> Vargard


What you do is to package some large fragile (but not too expensive) items in large boxes using the saw dust as packaging materiel.   Or in the alternative, buy yourself a table saw with a dado blade and then just get some wood and make your own saw dust.  @ $14 per pound I think I would make my own.


----------



## smokeway

Hi all

I have both. Purchased the ProQ about 2 years ago and the 8 inch amaze-n-smoker sawdust version

ProQ

-More complicated design and it looks like it's built well.

-The design causes issues though - with the metal bars at the top of the mesh, it's harder to scrape out residue after a smoke. The mesh is also too small IMO, as it majorly suffers if you have sawdust with bigger bits in. I have to sieve some of my sawdust to make sure it's purely small particles. Even then, it will go out unless the device has been completely scraped clean.

-The candle method of lighting is too long and pointless if you have a blowtorch.

-It goes out far more often than the Amaze-N

-You can only fit 100g in it

-It was cheaper for me as I am based in UK.

-Came with 100g free sample of Oak (I think it was Oak) and in a nice package

-Takes about 9 hours to burn through a full load

-much smaller than the Amaze-N-Smoker

Amaze-N-Smoker (8x8, sawdust)

-Simpler built than the ProQ

-BUT... the holes are bigger and the previously mentioned particle size is less of an issue. It also feels more resilient, it's 1mm perforated metal welded together - no mesh.

-You can light from two ends to get a heavier smoke

-Think you can fit about 300g of sawdust in it, 3x as much as ProQ - although I would say that if you only half fill it, it burns through a lot quicker

-Takes about 11-12 hours to burn through a full load (only lighting at one end).

-Only takes me a minute to clean compared to 10-15 mins for the ProQ, and I never feel like I'd puncture the mesh as there isn't one.

-Comes with a free pound of hickory sawdust. Seeing as I was shipping from US to UK I didnt think I would take this to keep the weight down...

-BUT the guy at amaze-n-smoker is REALLYreally helpful. We worked out the 2 cheapest shipping options and I decided to take the express version which gave me enough weight allowance to take the free pound of hickory dust.

-It hasnt gone out once yet.

The Amaze-N-Smoker is a better product. I dont care about "buying british", i just want the best product for the job.

On a side note though, if you want to avoid buying one of these, just buy a circular splatter screen (like a tennis racquet made of mesh), put about 100g around the circumference and pile it evenly and light one end. You should have an even cold smoke for about 4-5 hours depending on size of screen. Costs £2 and not £30

edit: by the way, with both devices I need to microwave the sawdust for 3 minutes (stirring three times) to ensure it's dry enough to stay lit (i'm in the uk and it's always raining [outside the smoker])


----------



## dougmays

i have 2 AMazeN's and i love them! i use them for Jerky smoking and i wont use anything else. you wont be let down


----------



## bobfelts

Have the 18" pellet smoker. It is in fact amazing. It works as expected, period. And I expected perfection. You just can't go wrong with A-maze-n products. I'm waiting for them to make a whole smoker. I'll be very likely to buy it if it's big enough.


----------



## edsbbq

Been using the a maze smoke maker for a long time and it works great. I even use it in my cookshack.it works far better than the cookshacks method of making smoke.


----------



## cyderpig

I just use a old chip fryer basket,2 pre lit lumps charcoal, chuck on the wood, stick it in the bottom of the UDS and away to go!

Simon


----------



## vortreker

The function of the Amaze-N-Smoker and the customer service are "Amaze-N"!!!-----I have used it on 6 different grills/smokers for hot and cold smoke. Works better than anything else I have ever used.


----------



## goingcamping

Just bought the 18" tube smoker from Todd at AMAZE-N-Smoker...Works as advertised. I ran thru two (2) tubefuls yesterday, one at 140*-170* for beef sticks and one at 275* for brisket. The first gave nice TBS for 5.5hours, the second gave me nice TBS for 4.5hours. Todd's customer service was outstanding...I will purchase a second one as a replacement for longer smokes!

I, like some on here, was a little disappointed that it had the "Made in China" sticker on it. I loved the idea behind American made products and try and buy local when I can?! As a fellow business owner, I understand the need to control costs?! The first rule of business is to make a profit (not at all costs, but at the costs of keeping your product available and being able to keep the doors open!). Quality and resale is the reason I own 2 Toyota trucks, you cannot beat them for maintenance and resale (they are made in America, BTW). 

I have not tried the ProQ, nor do I intend too. The main (most likely the only?) reason I purchased the AMNTS was because of reviews and the feedback from all that have posted about it on here! I didn't even know I was looking for a smoke generator?!

Thanks to Fellow SMFer's (somehow that sounds dirty?).

~Brett












Mods 7.jpg



__ goingcamping
__ Feb 22, 2013


----------



## suboc

Are there any retailers where I can go and buy one ove these A-mazin-smokers? Or do I have to buy one online? I stopped by one of my local Smoker supply stores and he looked at me like i was crazy when i described it to him. Then I showed him a picture and he pretty much told me to leave in a round about way, by saying, "I told you I never heard of it" and turned around and walked off. I guess these texas boys arent too keen on cold smokes and smokers you cant pull behind your truck.


----------



## linguica

As far as i know it's available online only, but the service is excellent and shipping, fast

http://www.amazenproducts.com/


----------



## mountainhawg

I noticed a lot of excellent reviews on the AMAZE. I like cold smoking and have gobs of fresh cut smoking woods both fruit and nut, but it is a bit of a pain when it's warm to cold smoke even with just 2 or 3 coals lit. Just wondering if the pellets give off that good a flavor compared to chunk?


----------



## theoldscot

Hello All,

     Just a thought, isn't it about time to put this to rest??  I find Todd's products work very well for me. Only one time things went awry and that was operator error.  I haven't read much about Todds delivery time which is outstanding, ordered on Sunday and recieved it on wednsday. All the instructions were very clear and the material is top quality, the price was quite reasonable considering the probable life of the product.  If it works for you Great if not try something different.  Yes I have done a wee bit of smoking and Tod's Amaz-n products brought my level up from Oh!OH! to will you do this again .

  The Oldscot


----------



## pokey

MountainHawg said:


> Just wondering if the pellets give off that good a flavor compared to chunk?


Probably depends on the pellets. I've been using some made of 100% flavor-wood. Most are a combination of oak with some percentage of flavor-wood. Some (Traeger) use wood oil to give the flavor to oak pellets. You can get the 100% pellets from a number of sources, Todd included.


----------



## mountainhawg

Pokey said:


> Probably depends on the pellets. I've been using some made of 100% flavor-wood. Most are a combination of oak with some percentage of flavor-wood. Some (Traeger) use wood oil to give the flavor to oak pellets. You can get the 100% pellets from a number of sources, Todd included.


Thanks Joel. With warm weather coming up I'll have to give Todd's A-Maze-N and pellets some serious consideration.


----------



## aland

Mtn Hawg, may I offer a suggestion? Todds' products work very well. If you get the AMNPS, it will use both dust and pellets. I got the 5x8(3 row continuous. check out his site). I also got the 18" tube smoker and I LOVE it as do others. It is fantastic for cold smoking and he(Todd Johnson) says it work hot smoking up to 275*. I use mine alot  for cold smoking in my gas grill. I usually cold smoke my meat( an idea I got from Rob on SmokingPit.com) for an hour or two then put the fire to it. To me, that makes the product take on more smoke flavor. But seriously, Check out Todds' products. I and many others are pleased as punch and as far as customer service, you can't beat Todd. You can call him anytime which is rare with other companies. Good smokin' to ya. Alan  Hawkins


----------



## mountainhawg

aland said:


> Mtn Hawg, may I offer a suggestion? Todds' products work very well. If you get the AMNPS, it will use both dust and pellets. I got the 5x8(3 row continuous. check out his site). I also got the 18" tube smoker and I LOVE it as do others. It is fantastic for cold smoking and he(Todd Johnson) says it work hot smoking up to 275*. I use mine alot  for cold smoking in my gas grill. I usually cold smoke my meat( an idea I got from Rob on SmokingPit.com) for an hour or two then put the fire to it. To me, that makes the product take on more smoke flavor. But seriously, Check out Todds' products. I and many others are pleased as punch and as far as customer service, you can't beat Todd. You can call him anytime which is rare with other companies. Good smokin' to ya. Alan  Hawkins


I finally broke down and decided to get the 5x8. Just was too much trouble maintaining a cold smoke with a handful of coals even in very cold weather. I modified my grill too well and it holds the heat even with all vents plus door wide open and starting at 6 AM.


----------



## Bearcarver

MountainHawg said:


> I finally broke down and decided to get the 5x8. Just was too much trouble maintaining a cold smoke with a handful of coals even in very cold weather. I modified my grill too well and it holds the heat even with all vents plus door wide open and starting at 6 AM.


YOU WON'T BE SORRY!!!!!

Bear


----------



## mountainhawg

First use of the AMZPS using peach dust doing cheese, one row, one end lit. Now I see how you can do long, long smokes with no problems. This thing really puts out a fine TBS, can't even get a good Q-View of it.  Trying Pitmaster's Choice pellets tonight on two reverse seer porterhouse steaks.


----------



## julliette

I am a newbie here, and have been thinking on cold smokers for making smoked cheese and fish,  can you use the AMNPS for cold smoke and hot smoke? I have a 30 MES and wondered if I could use it all the time instead of the chip loader,


----------



## pokey

Yes to question 1 and yes, I believe, to question 2.


----------



## jbt1

Yes on both questions. Just remove the chip tray and pull the chip loader out two inches or so. Put the smoker to the far left of the heating element. By pulling the chip tray out part way it allows air to get in to keep the pellets lite.

Jack


----------



## Bearcarver

Julliette said:


> I am a newbie here, and have been thinking on cold smokers for making smoked cheese and fish,  can you use the AMNPS for cold smoke and hot smoke? I have a 30 MES and wondered if I could use it all the time instead of the chip loader,


Both answers----Absolutely.

Bear


----------



## milt2tle

suboc said:


> Are there any retailers where I can go and buy one ove these A-mazin-smokers? Or do I have to buy one online? I stopped by one of my local Smoker supply stores and he looked at me like i was crazy when i described it to him. Then I showed him a picture and he pretty much told me to leave in a round about way, by saying, "I told you I never heard of it" and turned around and walked off. I guess these texas boys arent too keen on cold smokes and smokers you cant pull behind your truck.


I saw one in a retail store in Olathe, KS, yesterday, 7/12/13, if that helps.


----------



## dilksdad

Yes on both questions. Just remove the chip tray and pull the chip loader out two inches or so. Put the smoker to the far left of the heating element. By pulling the chip tray out part way it allows air to get in to keep the pellets lite.

Jack

Just love using the AMNPS, although I do have minor issues getting the unit to initially continue burning.  Should I remove the chip tray totally or the chip loader? I have a 40 in MES.
[/quote]


----------



## smoker21

You sure can Julliette.  Just don't put it on the right (heating element side).


----------



## bajafish

Have had the "ProQ"  and  "A-maze-n" for about 4 years, they both do a good job. The sawdust works better for me if I measure out what I want to use, then dump it on a cookie sheet and spread it around. I then bake the dust at 250* for 30 min. to dry it out. Living in southwest Oregon, things can get damp. The "A-maze-n" can put out enough heat to melt the cheese in my smoker, so I put the water pan above it and fill it with cold water and ice. That way the warm smoke moves over cold pan and pulls the heat out, it works pretty good. Just be sure to raise one side of the pan a little,  when water condenses on it you want it to drip off to the side not onto the sawdust.


----------



## bajabarrister

Thanks for all of the good info! I just ordered from A-MAZE-N and can't wait to try my hand at cold smokin'.


----------



## Bearcarver

Bajafish said:


> Have had the "ProQ"  and  "A-maze-n" for about 4 years, they both do a good job. The sawdust works better for me if I measure out what I want to use, then dump it on a cookie sheet and spread it around. I then bake the dust at 250* for 30 min. to dry it out. Living in southwest Oregon, things can get damp. The "A-maze-n" can put out enough heat to melt the cheese in my smoker, so I put the water pan above it and fill it with cold water and ice. That way the warm smoke moves over cold pan and pulls the heat out, it works pretty good. *Just be sure to raise one side of the pan a little,  when water condenses on it you want it to drip off to the side not onto the sawdust.*


Put water in a jug & freeze it---Then you won't get condensation on the bottom of your pan.

Also ice in the jug won't add humidity to your Amazing Dust or Pellets.

Bear













IMG_3775.JPG



__ mummel
__ Nov 18, 2015


----------



## scarface86

Sadly I got my AMPS in today and I noticed the build quality to be a bit lesser than what I saw on the website. Then I noticed the box had a MADE IN CHINA sticker on it. Had I known this going in I might have put a bit more research into the ProQ.


----------



## tjohnson

Not sure what you expected, but If for any reason you don't like the AMNPS 5x8, send it back and I'll refund your $$$


Todd


----------



## red adaire

Hi Guys. I live in the UK and the funny "L" is the symbol for £1 thats one pound sterling which is approx 1.62 of your $.


----------



## daricksta

Scarface86 said:


> Sadly I got my AMPS in today and I noticed the build quality to be a bit lesser than what I saw on the website. Then I noticed the box had a MADE IN CHINA sticker on it. Had I known this going in I might have put a bit more research into the ProQ.


I've been using the AMNPS--which is different than the AMPS--for a year and I never saw a Made in China sticker on mine. Wouldn't care anyway. It's worked great for both hot and cold smoking and you will not find better customer service anywhere else. Todd has kept me very happy which is the reason I'll be buying the Maverick ET-732, which is made in China, to use inside my Masterbuilt 30" electric water smoker...also made in China. You really can't escape purchasing Chinese-made goods anymore, as much as it upsets me.

Have no idea if Todd has the AMNPS manufactured overseas. But he's a small businessman with a thriving business and perhaps that's the best way for him to keep production up and the prices down.


----------



## daricksta

MountainHawg said:


> I noticed a lot of excellent reviews on the AMAZE. I like cold smoking and have gobs of fresh cut smoking woods both fruit and nut, but it is a bit of a pain when it's warm to cold smoke even with just 2 or 3 coals lit. Just wondering if the pellets give off that good a flavor compared to chunk?


Take it from me, an AMNPS owner: oh yes.


----------



## basher

Just wondering if there's anyway to still get a 100% made in USA smoker or they all made by Chinese children now?


----------



## Bearcarver

basher said:


> Just wondering if there's anyway to still get a *100% made in USA smoker *or they all made by Chinese children now?








*Made in America, and very inexpensive!!*


----------



## daricksta

basher said:


> Just wondering if there's anyway to still get a 100% made in USA smoker or they all made by Chinese children now?


That's a funny comment. My wife always hassles me when I talk about Chinese children making stuff in factories--but it's a true statement and she knows it.

If you're willing to pay a _minimum_ of $800-$1000 including settling for a scratch-and-dent smoker, yes, you can find 100% Made in USA smokers. Since they're too rich for my blood I settled for a $190 Chinese-made smoker.


----------



## basher

I was referring to an anmps


----------



## gibsorz

I have only used the a-maze-n pellet smoker, and it is extraordinary. I use it directly in the bottom of my wsm and it raises temps inside by about 10f, which means probably 320 days a year I can cold smoke at night where I live. I do find it a pain to get lit with just a torch though. But like when I start a camp fire with wet wood, a little alcohol based gel hand sanitizer, and it lights perfectly everytime with a standard match and gives a smooth even burn for 10+ hours.


----------



## basher

Just got my amnps works great.  Bit of a pain who light but not as bad as I thought reading all the reviews.  I think the pellets you use make a big difference, I got a bag of louisiana grills pellets and I noticed they seem to have some kind of shiny coating on them and they are harder to get going than the bag that came with it.  Definitely doesn't work well over 275 either was in a rush one day and the whole tray lit up on me haha.


----------



## nevrsummr

Macsbbq said:


> Wow you're a real friendly bunch on here.
> I'd be more than happy to send one of our units out, for free, to anybody that will give a non-biased, honest review.
> However I don't honestly believe that will change anyones opinion on this forum, based on the comments so far, even if the ProQ out-performed it tenfold.
> If anyone is serious about giving and honest review, please feel free to PM me.
> 
> Ian



I am considering buying an AMNPS, but would be glad to give an unbiased test of both, photos and times included. Pm me for an address if you are serious. I have lived abroad and can respect that quality products come from around the world. I like German steel, Argentinan wine, and have had great luck with Japanese cars.  

I wonder if Todd would be willing to pitch in or at least offer a deal as well. 

To the winner, I offer an idea I have that I believe will even further the success of your products. 

Let's find out


----------



## Bearcarver

nevrsummr said:


> I am considering buying an AMNPS, but would be glad to give an unbiased test of both, photos and times included. Pm me for an address if you are serious. I have lived abroad and can respect that quality products come from around the world. I like German steel, Argentinan wine, and have had great luck with Japanese cars.
> 
> I wonder if Todd would be willing to pitch in or at least offer a deal as well.
> 
> To the winner, I offer an idea I have that I believe will even further the success of your products.
> 
> Let's find out


Hi Nevrsummr!!

I doubt if you'll get a reply. That guy was here years ago. He only made 17 posts & hasn't been here since February of 2012.

Here's a Link:

http://www.amazenproducts.com

Bear


----------



## nevrsummr

Thanks Bear. Loved the post on your chainsaw carvings btw. Been doing a lot of research on different smoke options and just getting more confused. I did make the mistake of getting excited and responding to the challenge on page 1 before realizing there's 9 pages. I definitely see advantages to the AMNPS as far as durability over the screen. My concerns are with tws Vs tbs . Since you use them regularly and I trust your advice, perhaps some thoughts on the type of smoke produced. Also, for a 24 cu ft smoker would it produce enough smoke for multiple items? Or would a generator be better? I have a pid with relay output that can control smoke, something that could be electrically operated interests me as well. As always, I greatly appreciate your input. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/239499/traulsen-commercial-refrigerator-build
J


----------



## Bearcarver

nevrsummr said:


> Thanks Bear. Loved the post on your chainsaw carvings btw. Been doing a lot of research on different smoke options and just getting more confused. I did make the mistake of getting excited and responding to the challenge on page 1 before realizing there's 9 pages. I definitely see advantages to the AMNPS as far as durability over the screen. My concerns are with tws Vs tbs . Since you use them regularly and I trust your advice, perhaps some thoughts on the type of smoke produced. Also, for a 24 cu ft smoker would it produce enough smoke for multiple items? Or would a generator be better? I have a pid with relay output that can control smoke, something that could be electrically operated interests me as well. As always, I greatly appreciate your input. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/239499/traulsen-commercial-refrigerator-build
> J


For 24 Cubic Feet, I would recommend the 12" to 18" expanding Tube Smoke. It puts out more smoke than the 5 X 8 AMNPS:

http://www.amazenproducts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=OET

Bear


----------



## nevrsummr

I would like to order the amazen package number 5 but with the 12 to 18 expanding instead of a 6". Can Todd hook that up? Probably too late for the 20% holiday coupon hey? Any comment on blue smoke Vs white with the amazen?


----------



## Bearcarver

nevrsummr said:


> I would like to order the amazen package number 5 but with the 12 to 18 expanding instead of a 6". Can Todd hook that up? Probably too late for the 20% holiday coupon hey? Any comment on blue smoke Vs white with the amazen?


PM Todd < TJohnson>

I'm sure he'll do his best. Tell Him "Bear Sent You".

As for Blue or White Smoke------I have never gotten any smoke from an AMNPS that was bad.

Bear


----------



## wade

I have a ProQ, some AMNPS's and some AMNTS's. They really are best suited to different situations. I found the ProQ OK for small capacity smokers (e.g. Weber Kettle or WSM) but for me it is very temperamental and I found that I could not rely on it to keep alight unattended. The AMNPS I use all the time for my cold smoking. It looks as if our smoke chambers are similar in size (mine is a converted commercial freezer) and the AMNPS fills it without any trouble. I also have a variable speed 4" fan built into the flue to help ensure a good flow of air and smoke through the chamber. For cold smoking the AMNPS is my choice.













AMNPS.jpg



__ wade
__ Jan 9, 2016


















Smoker with smoke box.jpg



__ wade
__ Jan 9, 2016


















Trout Smoking.jpg



__ wade
__ Jan 9, 2016






The AMNTS is best suited in hot smoking environments. It is great for used in gas BBQs to add smoke and also in pellet BBQs to augment the smoke. I regularly use a 12" AMNTS in my FEC-120 to boost the smoke during cooking. The AMNTS actually produces too much smoke over too short a period of time for me to use it for cold smoking.

With regards to the quality of the smoke... well, it is smoke. The flavour of the smoke will depend on the type and quality of the pellets. I have not really noticed any quality difference between my different pellet burning smoke generators. I also have one of the older Smoke Daddy generators. They all burn the same pellets and produce very similar smoke. My preference for the AMNPS over the SmokeDaddy is because the AMNPS does not need power and I found it more reliable over long burns.


----------



## nevrsummr

Thanks Wade, great post , very informative.  Good pics too, nice build. So you recommend the tray over the 12-18 expandable? I would like to hear about your fan, been considering one myself. How did you do it? How does it hold up to the smoke,heat,creosote,etc associated with the smoking environment?


----------



## Bearcarver

nevrsummr said:


> Thanks Wade, great post , very informative. Good pics too, nice build. So you recommend the tray over the 12-18 expandable? I would like to hear about your fan, been considering one myself. How did you do it? How does it hold up to the smoke,heat,creosote,etc associated with the smoking environment?


Like I said, like Wade, my favorite is by far the AMNPS Tray, but for 24 cubic feet, I would recommend the Tube.

Also if you are at a high altitude, definitely go with the tube. The AMNPS has problems at high altitudes.

Bear


----------



## nevrsummr

I sent Todd a pm. I took your advice on the 12_18. 3000 feet high in elevation?  Elevation is one of those things that is relative to where you live. Haha


----------



## dirtsailor2003

I'll throw my two cents in. I use the AMNTS tubes for cold smoking all the time. Either right in the pit or in my mailbox mod and piped in. Never found that they produce too much smoke for cold smoking. They were recommended for my altitude and for use in my propane smoker. They do fine hot smoking in the propane and charcoal smoker with pit temps up to 285. After that the pellets ignite and burn instead of smoldering. 

I have the 6",12",18", and the new expando tube. I found in cooler temperatures (below 30 degrees) that the new expando tube doesn't last as long as the old style tube. Higher temps seems to last as long as the others.


----------



## Bearcarver

nevrsummr said:


> I sent Todd a pm. I took your advice on the 12_18. 3000 feet high in elevation? Elevation is one of those things that is relative to where you live. Haha


I know a couple guys who had a hard time with the Tray at 5,000', and another guy just told me the other day that he has no problem at 3.500', but I would still go with one of the tubes.

Did you tell Todd, "Bear Sent You"??  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Bear


----------



## nevrsummr

Yes sir I did. No reply yet, but it's the weekend so I don't expect one.


----------



## mr t 59874

nevrsummr said:


> Any comment on blue smoke Vs white with the amazen?


As with any smoke generator, by changing the type of fuel, (chips, chunks, pellets, sawdust, or fine powder), placement and airflow, one can get the desired color of smoke from white to blue. At the same time controlling the amount of creosote introduced to the product chamber.

As mentioned in the past, by using different colors of smoke you will to learn to adjust the time that you actually apply smoke to a product. The whiter the smoke the less forgiving it is. For example, you wouldn’t want to apply thick white smoke to a side of bacon for day’s but it would be a necessity if you wanted to smoke shrimp for a couple minutes before serving a smoked shrimp cocktail. To increase your smoking options, use your smoke generator regardless of the make in different manors.

T


----------



## nevrsummr

Thanks Mr T. 

I had smoked a lot of fish on the past but my learning there are different types of smoke (for smoking food) happened since I joined here. I'm using mainly electric setups do I was curious if I was limiting my ability to experiment and learn with what you guys call TBS. Pretty much the only smoke I see in my smoker is white. However in my Louisiana grill I do see more of a blue. I guess I will keep reading and learning more. So far this site has taught me a lot. Thanks to all. 

J


----------



## mr t 59874

Each smoker will have its own characteristics. Although there are adjustments that you can make, take good notes, learn your individual smoker then use what you have learned, afterwards, relax and enjoy your cooks.

T


----------



## wade

Bearcarver said:


> Like I said, like Wade, my favorite is by far the AMNPS Tray, but for 24 cubic feet, I would recommend the Tube.
> 
> Also if you are at a high altitude, definitely go with the tube. The AMNPS has problems at high altitudes.
> 
> Bear


Bear is probably right that at altitude you may require the tube smoker - I am almost at sea level so it isn't a problem for me. At my low altitude though the volume of smoke from the AMNPS is more than enough. The volume of my cabinet is 650 litre (23 cubic feet) and you can see from the photo the amount of smoke inside. That was taken about 15 seconds after the door was opened so that some of the smoke had dissipated and you could actually see the fish. The chamber also has a fan in the flue to ensure that the smoke/air is continually flowing through the chamber.


----------



## wade

nevrsummr said:


> Thanks Wade, great post , very informative. Good pics too, nice build. So you recommend the tray over the 12-18 expandable? I would like to hear about your fan, been considering one myself. How did you do it? How does it hold up to the smoke,heat,creosote,etc associated with the smoking environment?


The fan is inline in the flue and is simply a 4" variable speed PC cooling fan http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=118&area=en.

I made a bracket to connect it to the 4" duct (that is common over here for air extraction) from a duct size converter plate that you can buy from most of our DIY stores. The adapter I use is made of plastic and I cut away the square section fitting http://www.diy.com/departments/manrose-white-flat-to-round-adaptor-wall-plate/258829_BQ.prd  

but something like this from Home Depot may do just as well with some modification http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-4-in-Round-Wall-Vent-WVA4/100396975

I was putting together another fan just recently for another project and you can see the construction in these photos













Fan assembly parts.jpg



__ wade
__ Jan 11, 2016


















Fan assembly 1.jpg



__ wade
__ Jan 11, 2016


















Fan assembly 2.jpg



__ wade
__ Jan 11, 2016






This was for extracting straight to the outside - hence the insect screen and fan grill. For an inline fan simply use two of the adapter plates to sandwich the fan. This fan unit is for cold smoking only.


----------



## phil dugan

Good info here. I just bought an amps but was a little disappointed to see it mas maid in china .


----------



## wade

The reality of world economics unfortunately.


----------



## mr t 59874

I use the tray type smoke generator at 2400 ft. Smoke is supplied to a 22 cft product chamber via an external firebox. By using a 10 ft. run from the firebox to the product chamber and 6 ft, chimney, once a draft is started, no fan is needed.













000_0027.JPG



__ mr t 59874
__ Feb 14, 2015








Small fan being used to assist in getting draft started.















000_0031.JPG



__ mr t 59874
__ Feb 14, 2015


----------



## bilgeslime

I brought a Amazen based on things I have read on this board and it should arrive tomorrow.


----------



## nevrsummr

Thanks for the info! Wade, the first adapter you linked looks like it would be perfect, my chimney is 2x4 inches looks like a nice match. 

I will definitely look into getting one of those fans. I think it will help a lot. 

Question?  It seems to me that installing the fan on the intake side would prevent exposure to heat, smoke, and humidity from the smoker cabinet, while accomplishing the same amount of airflow. Right? Any down sides?


----------



## mtbken

I sent Todd a PM as well a few days ago.  I would send him a direct email. (That you can find on his website, or email sales) to get a faster response.  Not sure, he must be really busy in the shop these days!  

Ken


----------



## daricksta

I know from personal experience that Todd may respond to a PM but he always answers an email.


----------



## nevrsummr

Will try that. Thanks


----------



## wade

nevrsummr said:


> Question? It seems to me that installing the fan on the intake side would prevent exposure to heat, smoke, and humidity from the smoker cabinet, while accomplishing the same amount of airflow. Right? Any down sides?


Sucking the air from the flue will cause a slight drop in pressure in the main chamber which will result in a gentle air flow in at the bottom over the smoke generator. By blowing the air in at the bottom, although it will be the same volume of air, the air flow over the smoke generator is likely to be more intense causing it to burn faster and the smoke temperature to increase. Depending on the design of your smoker though this may not make much of a difference in the cooking chamber. At altitude it may even help to keep an AMNPS alight. Also by forcing the air in it will effectively increase the pressure inside and you are more likely to leak smoke around any seals if they are not a perfect fit - which can be a problem if the smoking chamber is indoors. By sucking from the flue and effectively reducing the pressure inside the cooking chamber any air flow at the seals is likely to be inwards.

For me I use this smoker only for cold smoking and so having the fan in the flue is not a problem due to heat.


----------



## tjmitche

Phil Dugan said:


> Good info here. I just bought an amps but was a little disappointed to see it mas maid in china .


I'm a little confused.  The first dozen pages of this thread focused on the pride taken that these were made in America.  

I've got an Amazen tube smoker and use it in almost every hot or cold smoke.  

Did something changed over the past 5 years?   Has manufacturing moved to China?  That would be a shame.


----------



## nevrsummr

Good info Wade. Thanks. Came across a heat exchanger yesterday that I will modify into a exhaust system. I figure it will help with cold smoking and dehydrating.


----------



## nevrsummr

20160113_101213.jpg



__ nevrsummr
__ Jan 13, 2016





I'm thinking something like this. I will have to re-think a damper but it should work


----------



## tuffer

I personally have trouble keeping my amaze going and staying lite, But for some reason my amaze tube works with no problems at all. But i personally like my Smoke miester best works all the time. www.smokemiester.com


----------



## smoker21

Hi Tuffer,
I have no experience with Smole Miesters. Are the two dampers the only controls? What holds the pellets in place and let's the ash out? How do you light them? I went to their website but all I found was how to install one.

Thanks.

JD

But i personally like my Smoke miester best works all the time. www.smokemiester.com
[/quote]


----------



## tuffer

Hello Jd 

There is a screen at bottom of the can with a baffle that lets the ash out there is also a screen at the exit stack with a baffle. once your lit open bottom damper to control amount of smoke . I usually get a 12 hour smoke with a mix of pellets and chips. I've gotten 18 hours with the ext, to light them i just throw a fuel pellet on top let it burn out usually 4 to 5 min give or take. 

. << decent vid on the smoke miester. all made in US.


----------



## GaryHibbert

Hi Tuffer.  I have no experieñce with this product--actually I've never heard of it before.

The website says it puts out pure dense smoke.  That it is not thinned out like smoke producers with a fan/pump.  That sure doesn't sound like *TBS* to me.

It also sounds as if they *approve* of the production of creosote in the cook chamber???

Gary


----------



## smoker21

Hi Tuffer,
Thanks for the link. It Answered all my questions.

JD


----------



## tuffer

Hi Gary, All i know is it works great on my cold smoker, You can adjust the amount of smoke whether light or heavy, Never had an issue and ive smoked about 200 lbs of cold smoke sausage and another 100 lbs of cheese with no issues, I've tried several ways to produce smoke for my cold smoke house and for me the meister works great. I use my amaze tube for short smokes But for a long 12 18 hour walk away and not have to touch the thing the meister is great. They are a local company in Oakland California i stumbled across their product at a fair about a year ago.Thanks for the input


----------



## wade

I have just watched the SmokeMiester promotional video and it works in a very similar way to the old Smoke Daddy generators - however, because SmokeMeister has a larger barrel diameter, they do not need the air pump to keep it burning. From the video though it looks as if it produces *a lot* of smoke - similar to the free burning tube smokers. It is not clear how well this can be regulated using the bottom air vent and for hot smoking in the Gas BBQ (as shown) it would be fine, however it would produce way too much thick white smoke to cold smoke there - as there is no air flow through the gas unit. Using it in something like an offset smoker when cold smoking could probably give sufficient air flow to reduce the effects of the billowing smoke.


----------



## Bearcarver

GaryHibbert said:


> Hi Tuffer. I have no experieñce with this product--actually I've never heard of it before.
> 
> The website says it puts out pure dense smoke. That it is not thinned out like smoke producers with a fan/pump. That sure doesn't sound like *TBS* to me.
> 
> It also sounds as if they *approve* of the production of creosote in the cook chamber???
> 
> Gary


Wow---Reminds me of the Smoke Grenades we used in Vietnam!!

Toss a couple of them before the Medivac Choppers come in, and they could pick up all the Wounded & be gone before the Dense Smoke cleared the area.

I wonder how that Charcoal Lighter Fluid tastes.

I'll stick to my Amazing Smokers.

Bear


----------



## wade

Bearcarver said:


> Wow---Reminds me of the Smoke Grenades we used in Vietnam!!
> 
> I wonder how that Charcoal Lighter Fluid tastes.
> 
> Bear


Ahh The sweet smell of napalm... It would surely bring back memories I think


----------



## Bearcarver

Wade said:


> Ahh The sweet smell of napalm... It would surely bring back memories I think


No not Napalm---That was Fire Destruction.

Smoke Grenades covered the whole area with dense Smoke (like some Smoke Generators), so Choppers could come in & pick up wounded guys without being shot up on the way to the choppers.

Bear


----------



## smoker21

I'm with you Bear.

JD



Bearcarver said:


> Wow---Reminds me of the Smoke Grenades we used in Vietnam!!
> 
> Toss a couple of them before the Medivac Choppers come in, and they could pick up all the Wounded & be gone before the Dense Smoke cleared the area.
> 
> I wonder how that Charcoal Lighter Fluid tastes.
> 
> I'll stick to my Amazing Smokers.
> 
> 
> Bear


----------



## wade

I was meaning the lighter fluid


----------



## Bearcarver

Wade said:


> I was meaning the lighter fluid


Ok----I get it---Sorry about the confusion, Wade.

I used that stuff for years & years, until I learned about the Chimney Charcoal starter (on this forum).

No more Lighter fluid tasting Ribeyes & Burgers for me.

Amazing that they would use Lighter fluid in a Smoke Generator Demo Video.

Bear


----------



## tuffer

Well I will keep using it, as it does not produce thick smoke,Its called learn to adjust and fine tune your smoker just like everything, and i do not use lighter fluid to start my pellets.That meister has great reviews on other sites like BBQ BRETHREN, But hey to each is its own. This group is the most biased i have ever seen. Sad


----------



## smoker21

OK, I'll bite. Biased to what?

JD


----------



## wade

Hi Tuffer - If you mistake banter for being biased then I am sorry but we cannot help that.

The unit actually looks very good. If it behaves as it appears to in the video then they have overcome the staying alight problem that is common with the other barrel smoke generators. I think it is the larger diameter that makes the difference.

In the video the smoke is very think - as I mentioned above it is similar to the smoke put out by the tube smokers. This is great for hot smoking in a gas BBQ as shown in the video but it would be way too thick for cold smoking as shown. I too have an Amazen tube smoker and also an AMNPS - both which I use regularly. They really hit too different smoke points - I find that the tube smoker is great for hot smoking and the pellet smoker is better for cold smoking.

As you say (and as I teach on my BBQ courses) the secret is in the fine tuning. It would be great if you could do a q-view review on the product and show just what it is capable of. It would be good to see how low you can adjust it without it going out - I suspect that it can go quite low.

There was mention above about creosote. I did not gather from the video that they were expecting creosote in the smoke chamber but maybe Gary saw it elsewhere. What they did demonstrate though wad how to remove tars that were in the smoke generator after it has been used. This is perfectly understandable as all smoke generators produce tars - it is a natural product of burning the dust or pellets. It has to go somewhere and in this case it is better that as much as possible stays in the smoke generator.

I am a little surprised at the price though. $120 seems a little steep, but if it does the job then it may be worth the money.

Looking forward to photos and maybe a video clip or two


----------



## jokensmoken

Biased...hmmm...I'm confused.
Especially since I've been shunned and/or ignored on some other sites because using electric or propane as fuel isn't "real BBQ" or "real smoking"...
I use both, as well as a WSM and an older Okie Joe stick burner...but none of that mattered...soon as they heard propane or electric that was it...nothing you had to say about anything was pertinent nor was any question worth answering. 
I have to agree with Wade...banter isn't showing a bias nor is sticking with what's working for you...personally I like my A-Maze-N tube and ANMPS because I have learned to use them or "fine tune" them as you put it...that's not really a bias...it's what Ive spent the time to learn to use and what I'm comfortable with.

Walt.


----------



## Bearcarver

True Walt, We have a lot of Great People on this Forum!!

Yup---Hardly anyone on this Forum picks on us poor old Cripple Watt-burners.

Only one or two guys that I can think of do it as a habit.

We know you can get better flavor from an actual Woodburner, but I think we get pretty close when we get everything going just right.

Bear


----------



## smoker21

Yer not old Bear,

Just well seasoned, and smoked. [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128512[/emoji]

JD
----///------

Yup---Hardly anyone on this Forum picks on us poor old Cripple Watt-burners.
Only one or two guys that I can think of do it as a habit.

We know you can get better flavor from an actual Woodturner, 


Bear
[/quote]


----------



## wade

"Woodturner"? Haven't they recently made cannibalism illegal in the USA?


----------



## HalfSmoked

Wade

Remember He's a Bear cannibalism doesn't count in his world. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Oops I guess that's picking on old crippled members. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Warren


----------



## Bearcarver

Smoker21 said:


> Yer not old Bear,
> 
> Just well seasoned, and smoked. [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128512[/emoji]
> 
> JD
> ----///Yup---Hardly anyone on this Forum picks on us poor old Cripple Watt-burners.
> Only one or two guys that I can think of do it as a habit.
> 
> We know you can get better flavor from an actual Woodturner,
> 
> 
> Bear


[/quote]
Thanks JD,

Dang Spell Check!!!  I fixed it.

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver

Wade said:


> "Woodturner"? Haven't they recently made cannibalism illegal in the USA?





HalfSmoked said:


> Wade
> 
> *Remember He's a Bear, so cannibalism doesn't count in his world*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oops I guess that's picking on old crippled members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warren


Yup--What Warren said!

So be careful.

Bear


----------



## jokensmoken

Right bear.
I think I do pretty good on my MES and my propane now...lol...
When I switched from using my stick burner to my MES the very first thing I noticed was a lack of smoke flavor...now that I've got the right mix of different woods figured out and the right tools...no problems...

Walt.


----------



## smoker21

Howdy.

I have a gen 1 MES 40, and love it with a bit of help from an Anmps. I also now have a MB propane 44Xsmoker.  I can't control temp very well is my number one complaint and More smoke, would be welcome. I have ripped out most of the innards and now nothing but a rack and a cast iron pan over my burners. What kind of propane smoker do you have and Can you learn me sum tricks?

Thanks.

JD



jokensmoken said:


> Right bear.
> I think I do pretty good on my MES and my propane now...lol...


----------



## smoker21

IMG_3089.JPG



__ smoker21
__ Jun 20, 2017






Don't know why this didn't come up on the last post.

JD


----------



## jokensmoken

I've got an XL40 Masterbuilt single door propane.
It's basically a cabinet with racks and a burner in the bottom.
About a as basic as it gets.
I had lots of problems and solved most of them...
One issue was temp control so, as suggested by many on this site, I installed a needle valve to my propane tank that gave me better temp control for lower temps...if you're too cool you'll have to look into adding some insulation...my issue was getting cool enough.
The next issue was hot spots.
From top to bottom and front to rear I had as much as 30-40° temp differences...
I got a piece of 1/4 inch thick sheet steel about 14 inches X 24 inches from a scrap yard...filled the water pan with sand and set the steel directly on top of the shelf that holds the water pan making a big heat sinc.  It helped alot but I still had some hot spots so I drilled 3/4 inch holes in all four corners through the side of the cabinet for air flow (8 holes in all, 4 in each side) I use flat refrigerator magnets as dampers to choke them down...
After playing around with them I all but eliminated hot spots.
SMOKE...Yup...same problem so I got an A-Maze-N tube and abandon the chip tray altogether...
I mix in hickory chips with a competition blend of hickory, maple and cherry (HMC blend) pellets from lumberjack...the pellets alone didn't seem to impart much smoke flavor but adding chips (about half and half solved the problem.
I ran into another problem though...
keeping the tube lit...so I took two small pieces of 2x4 wrapped in foil (to prevent burning) and put one in the front left corner and one in the back left corner right on the floor of the cabinet where I set the well lit tube...I then drilled 5 more small holes about the diameter of a pencil right along the side where the tube sits...and now it smokes away for about 4-5 hours...
Sounds like a lot of stuff but it's all pretty simple stuff and my smoker works amazingly good now.
Not knowing about your particular smoker I'd just start with the needle valve and a smoke tube...and go from there...
Hope some of this helps.
Good luck and happy smoking.

Walt


----------



## jokensmoken

Forgot to mention I plugged all the air leaks with high temp silocone and put a gasket around the door...the silocone was high temp permatex from the local auto parts store and the door gasket was ordered off Amazon...it was made by lavarock and I used the 1/8" thick X 1/2" wide self stick which has been in place two years now...I think it comes in different length rolls like 6, 8, 10, 12 feet.


----------



## Bearcarver

jokensmoken said:


> I've got an XL40 Masterbuilt single door propane.
> It's basically a cabinet with racks and a burner in the bottom.
> About a as basic as it gets.
> I had lots of problems and solved most of them...
> One issue was temp control so, as suggested by many on this site, I installed a needle valve to my propane tank that gave me better temp control for lower temps...if you're too cool you'll have to look into adding some insulation...my issue was getting cool enough.
> The next issue was hot spots.
> From top to bottom and front to rear I had as much as 30-40° temp differences...
> I got a piece of 1/4 inch thick sheet steel about 14 inches X 24 inches from a scrap yard...filled the water pan with sand and set the steel directly on top of the shelf that holds the water pan making a big heat sinc. It helped alot but I still had some hot spots so I drilled 3/4 inch holes in all four corners through the side of the cabinet for air flow (8 holes in all, 4 in each side) I use flat refrigerator magnets as dampers to choke them down...
> After playing around with them I all but eliminated hot spots.
> SMOKE...Yup...same problem so I got an A-Maze-N tube and abandon the chip tray altogether...
> I mix in hickory chips with a competition blend of hickory, maple and cherry (HMC blend) pellets from lumberjack...the pellets alone didn't seem to impart much smoke flavor but adding chips (about half and half solved the problem.
> I ran into another problem though...
> keeping the tube lit...so I took two small pieces of 2x4 wrapped in foil (to prevent burning) and put one in the front left corner and one in the back left corner right on the floor of the cabinet where I set the well lit tube...I then drilled 5 more small holes about the diameter of a pencil right along the side where the tube sits...and now it smokes away for about 4-5 hours...
> Sounds like a lot of stuff but it's all pretty simple stuff and my smoker works amazingly good now.
> Not knowing about your particular smoker I'd just start with the needle valve and a smoke tube...and go from there...
> Hope some of this helps.
> Good luck and happy smoking.
> 
> Walt


Sounds like you got that Baby Nailed!!!

Great !!

Bear


----------



## jokensmoken

Thanks bear,
It was a learning process and I'd be remiss not to give the folks on this site a lot of the credit...most of the mods were suggestions from all y'all.
I just kept asking and fiddling.

Walt.


----------



## jokensmoken

One.more thing...haha
I got a spray can of high temp header paint from the auto parts store and painted the fresh drilled holes...I don't know that they'd have rusted but I figured better safe than sorry.

Walt


----------



## jarrinjack

All:    Has anyone tried cold smoking bourbon or other liquors?    Any luck or pointers you can post?    I had a smoked bourbon Old Fashioned recently where the bartender used a smoke gun and it was fantastic.   I was thinking of adding smoke to a bottle of Maker's, but would love to hear from someone who has had experience.    thanks,    JJ


----------



## smoker21

Hi Walt,
I bought the XL44. It has 2, 12000btu burners. That sounded like a lot when I bought it as my Xmas present to myself, but at 30 degrees, I couldn't keep heat. I bought the heat resistant felt to seal the doors and I covered it with insulation and it helped a bunch. Now that the weather is warmer, I removed it. Now I use one burner on high. I have a couple of bricks covered with foil to hold some heat and I removed everything above the burner and put a cake rack over the hole. I'm using a cast iron pan and wood chunks, but I want more smoke. Never used the tube, so Amazon here I come.

JD


----------



## smoker21

Hi JJ,

Smoked bourbon is fun, isn't it. [emoji]128515[/emoji]
I split 1.75 of Jim Beam and borrowed a smoking gun. Added smoke to both bottles and waited a week. I probably didn't have to wait so long.
Makes a great Manhatten!

JD


----------



## jokensmoken

You'll like the tube...you can order one right from Jeff on this site...I don't think there's much if any price difference though.
Sounds like your on the right track...it took me most of the first summer  to get mine dialed in and I still play  around with different ideas...keep fiddling with it...when you get it dialed in you'll love it and if you learn anything cool give me a holler.
Walt.


----------



## smoker21

My next project is to figure out where to put the water pan. Probably going high tech with a couple of bricks.

[emoji]128512[/emoji]

JD


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## jokensmoken

I haven't used water in my pan for several years and NEVER had an issue drying out anything and I've smoked everything from hard boiled eggs, olives (different but not great), cheese, whole cream (to make smoked butter) and every veggie, herb, spice or meat you can think of.
I know there's great debate about water vs no water, I'm just saying in my experience I've had ZERO issue.  Just my 2¢

Walt.


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## Bearcarver

jokensmoken said:


> I haven't used water in my pan for several years and NEVER had an issue drying out anything and I've smoked everything from hard boiled eggs, olives (different but not great), cheese, whole cream (to make smoked butter) and every veggie, herb, spice or meat you can think of.
> I know there's great debate about water vs no water, I'm just saying in my experience I've had ZERO issue. Just my 2¢
> 
> Walt.


Most MES owners will agree with you.

There's already plenty of humidity in an MES, because they're so well insulated.

I haven't put anything in my Water pan in 7 years.

Bear


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## smoker21

About the only time I use water is with chicken drumsticks. The skin pulls back and the meat gets a bit tough without.
We eat a lot of yardbird here. LOL 

JD


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## dlking59

put water in my MES the 1st couple of times I used it then stopped haven't used water for a long time my MES seems to always have moisture/condensation on the glass window


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## Bearcarver

dlking59 said:


> put water in my MES the 1st couple of times I used it then stopped haven't used water for a long time my MES seems to always have moisture/condensation on the glass window


Yup---PITA !! Gets heavy & runs down the door.

Every time I wipe it, comes right back.

Time of year seems to matter more than what I'm Smoking.

My Gen #2.5 does it more than my Gen #1 used to.

Bear


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## dlking59

Bearcarver said:


> Yup---PITA !! Gets heavy & runs down the door.
> 
> Every time I wipe it, comes right back.
> 
> Time of year seems to matter more than what I'm Smoking.
> 
> My Gen #2.5 does it more than my Gen #1 used to.
> 
> Bear


can you tell me how to tell what Gen MES I have ? Thanks in advance


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## Bearcarver

dlking59 said:


> can you tell me how to tell what Gen MES I have ? Thanks in advance


Sure---Try This:

*MES Generation Number Recognition Pictures & Pics (Digital Units)*

BTW: When you say "North Central PA", would that be Potter, Tioga ???

Bear


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## jimmy1957

Bearcarver, He's in North Central PA.


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## Bearcarver

jimmy1957 said:


> Bearcarver, He's in North Central PA.


I know---That's why I asked him if he was from Potter or Tioga.

They are both North Central PA Counties I have hunted in years past.

Bear


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## dlking59

Bearcarver said:


> Sure---Try This:
> 
> *MES Generation Number Recognition Pictures & Pics (Digital Units)*
> 
> BTW: When you say "North Central PA", would that be Potter, Tioga ???
> 
> Bear


I say north central it's probably more central I'm originally from Lewisburg (home to Bucknell) app 55 miles north of Harrisburg


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## Bearcarver

dlking59 said:


> I say north central it's probably more central I'm originally from Lewisburg (home to Bucknell) app 55 miles north of Harrisburg


OK---Yeah, more "Central".

I think Adam "cfarmer" lives in that area of PA.

One of my Carved Bears is mounted in a Tree in Potter County, and he's been attacked by Real Bears quite a few times.

The guy I sold him to calls me every time he gets attacked.  LOL

Bear


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## jimmy1957

Potter County, Beautiful area.


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