# MES 40 not smoking



## cobble (Jun 2, 2011)

I've had this MES 40 for a couple months. Model # 20070211. Used to smoke just fine, but now it wont even burn the chips in the tray. Doesnt even darken them. Just dries them out. It's probably the heating element itself. I have probe thermometers, but I'm not sure that they're accurate outside of meat. I've got a surface thermometer coming in the mail, and Masterbuilt is sending me a retro kit, but I'm not sure that the retro kit will be the solution.


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## tjohnson (Jun 2, 2011)

Turn it on, open the door and remove the chip pan.

Check to see if the element is heating up.  IT should glow "Red"

There is an inspection cover on the back.  Take that off and inspect the terminals.  Are they Corroded?

Todd


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## bobbygee (Jun 2, 2011)

You can use one of your external thermometer probes to determine if the smoker temp is accurate.  Did you try the boiling water & ice water test to verify your meat probes are accurate? If you get 212-ish/32-ish readings you know your meat probes are good.Once your sure your external probe is good, place inside your smoker near the temp sensor in the back to determine if the  smoker is reaching the desired temp.


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## cobble (Jun 2, 2011)

Todd, the element does glow red when it's heating, and there shouldn't be any corrosion, because the unit is less than 2 months old and I keep it in my shed so its out of the elements.

Bobby,  the probes themselves are accurate. I have two different probes that both agree on the temp of boiling water, but I wasnt sure if meat probes could be relied on for accuracy outside of the meat. I think I read somewhere on the forums here that the temps would be off outside of meat.

On a side note, where exactly is the temp sensor in the case?


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2011)

The fact that it used to smoke, but now it doesn't confuses me.

Maybe it used to smoke at higher temps than you're using now.

The retro-kit will make it smoke at temps from 10˚ above ambient temp on up.

The chip burner assemblies that need replacing usually won't smoke until you get to at least 180˚, with the heating element on constantly.

Temp sensor is about a foot above the chip drawer, on the right of center.

Bear


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## cobble (Jun 2, 2011)

I suspect that the element itself is going bad. When I noticed that it wasn't smoking, I turned the temp up to 250 from 225, and still got no smoke. When I first got it, it'd smoke in minutes at 225, no question.


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## bobbygee (Jun 2, 2011)

Hmm... I hope they're mistaken,I've been using  a meat probe for my smoker temps...Anyway, the temp sensor is a little probe,It is located  around the second from bottom rack, in the back. It sticks out about an inch.


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2011)

Cobble said:


> I suspect that the element itself is going bad. When I noticed that it wasn't smoking, I turned the temp up to 250 from 225, and still got no smoke. When I first got it, it'd smoke in minutes at 225, no question.


This is why we like people to put where they're from in their profile.

Two months ago, if you're from the North, it would work a lot better at high smoker temps, because it was cold out, causing the element to stay on longer, even making the bad chip burner assembly work, but now that it isn't fighting the cold, the element isn't on long enough to make it work. We don't know if you're from the North.

I'm not saying your element isn't bad, but without knowing what your smoker temps are, we can't tell.

Bear


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## cobble (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm from Boston. So yeah, it was still the tail end of winter here when I got the smoker. While I wouldn't call it cold, it was probably in the 40's for my first few smokes. I can tell you this though, I have tried using the probe to get the case temp, and I dismissed them as being accurate because they were reading too low. I dont recall exact numbers, but I want to put it somewhere between 20-30 degrees below what I smoke at, which is typically 225-230. I'm at work right now, otherwise I'd be firing the smoker up to verify


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2011)

Cobble said:


> I'm from Boston. So yeah, it was still the tail end of winter here when I got the smoker. While I wouldn't call it cold, it was probably in the 40's for my first few smokes. I can tell you this though, I have tried using the probe to get the case temp, and I dismissed them as being accurate because they were reading too low. I dont recall exact numbers, but I want to put it somewhere between 20-30 degrees below what I smoke at, which is typically 225-230. I'm at work right now, otherwise I'd be firing the smoker up to verify


It's really hard to say without having a good working therm or two in there. The temp can vary in there as much as 60˚ from left to right (right being hotter), unless you have a heat baffle on the right side. Many put them in all the time. I only do it when it needs it. However I'd still like to know if your old chip burner was smoking consistently below 180˚, before. If it's the bad one---I doubt it.

Get your new therm & your retro, and give us some temps, and let us know at what temp the smoke starts..

Bear


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## joeschmoker (Jun 2, 2011)

Did you soak your wood chips?  I just got the MES 40 last week and I soaked the chips as suggested in the manual when seasoning and got very little smoke.  So, I took the chip tray out and dumped it and put dry in.  I got a little smoke, but definitely not enough.  When I was finished seasoning, there was hardly any ash and most of chips were not even black completely.  I ordered the new chip tray and the lady at customer service did tell me that the new tray does bring the chips a little closer to the heating element, so the new tray might help.

Isn't there another modification you can do to the metal sheet between the element and the chip tray (drill holes)?


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## cobble (Jun 2, 2011)

Bear, I'm reluctant to use the retro kit until I know if the element is good or not. From what I understand, the retro kit just removes the heat shield. If I then need to replace the element, my fear is that the chips will burn in seconds.


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## tjohnson (Jun 2, 2011)

Cobble and JoeSchmoker

There is a heat shield between the element and the chip pan.  The retro kit does have a larger pan, but Masterbuilt has also removed the heat shield.

Remove the heat shield and all should be good.

Just make sure the chi pas does not touch the element, or the chips can catch fire.

Cobble,

The unit is so well insulated, that the 800 watt element does not run much, when it's warm out.

The 40" MES has a 1200 watt element.  The smoker heats up and the element rarely kicks on.  This is probably why you're not getting smoke.  The only way to get smoke from a "Stock MES" is when the element is on.  Make Sense?

This is EXACTLY why I created my little gadget.  I was so frustrated with inconsistent smoke, and figured there had to be a better way.

Todd


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## cobble (Jun 2, 2011)

Joe, if you're not getting any smoke, you're likely in the same boat as I am. I've soaked my chips for hours, and when the heating element was working right, I got smoke in about 15 minutes, though I think my heating element had a problem from day 1, since most people seem to get smoke in just a few minutes.

Todd,

   I'm still trying to find the right spot for my AMNS so that the dust doesnt ignite on me. It's a work in progress. I've got some tinkering to do this weekend.


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## exhaustedspark (Jun 2, 2011)

Well my first thought is is am sorry for you being from Boston. Just kidding. When driving truck for delivering for Mayflower i went into Boston in a city environment and early In the morning the people came out to move there cars. and they smiled when doing so. 

Gotta love Boston.

I don't think i want to own a unit that one side is hotter then the other. I am making my own using some old water pressure tanks.

Karl


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## gotarace (Jun 2, 2011)

TJohnson said:


> Cobble and JoeSchmoker
> 
> There is a heat shield between the element and the chip pan.  The retro kit does have a larger pan, but Masterbuilt has also removed the heat shield.
> 
> ...


X2 I have no problem in the winter getting smoke from my MES but now it is inconsistent at best....I ordered a A-Maze-N smoke generator from Todd and couldn't be happier!!! This product will cure your smoke problem forever in your Mes....Sweet thin smoke...the quality of your Que will Amaze you when you incorporate it with your MES.


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2011)

JoeSchmoker said:


> Did you soak your wood chips?  I just got the MES 40 last week and I soaked the chips as suggested in the manual when seasoning and got very little smoke.  So, I took the chip tray out and dumped it and put dry in.  I got a little smoke, but definitely not enough.  When I was finished seasoning, there was hardly any ash and most of chips were not even black completely. *These are the exact signs of the bad chip burner assembly!* I ordered the new chip tray and the lady at customer service did tell me that the new tray does bring the chips a little closer to the heating element, so the new tray might help. *It will.*
> 
> Isn't there another modification you can do to the metal sheet between the element and the chip tray (drill holes)?  *Yes you can, but it would be like fixing a new car yourself, while it is under warranty.*


Bear


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2011)

Cobble said:


> Bear, I'm reluctant to use the retro kit until I know if the element is good or not. From what I understand, the retro kit just removes the heat shield. If I then need to replace the element, my fear is that the chips will burn in seconds.


You will have them both. They take 2 minutes to swap out. Once you figure out your heating element, use whichever one works best, but don't throw the other one away.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2011)

ExhaustedSpark said:


> Well my first thought is is am sorry for you being from Boston. Just kidding. When driving truck for delivering for Mayflower i went into Boston in a city environment and early In the morning the people came out to move there cars. and they smiled when doing so.
> 
> Gotta love Boston.
> 
> ...


Everybody that owns one has found ways to solve that problem.

You should go to the build forum---Lots of stuff there that will interest you more than this thread.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2011)

Once you guys get everything working properly, the best thing to do is get an AMNS.

Then you can sit back and relax, while perfect smoke surrounds your goodies!

Bear


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## tjohnson (Jun 2, 2011)

Cobble,

Sawdust is combustible at 300° and the cherry alone is right around 300°.

Your AMNS won't jump rows up to 180° or so.

If you keep the middle row empty, it can't jump rows.  The AMNS will burn faster because of the heat.

There still are some ways to make your MES smoke.  Some guys put a couple small chunks of charcoal in the chip pan and others use larger chunks.

TJ


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## joeschmoker (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks, TJohnson.  I wasn't aware that they took the heat shield out with the retrofit.  I'd read about people drilling holes as a modification, but I guess that was before the retrofit became available.


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## tjohnson (Jun 2, 2011)

Here are a couple pics

Heat Shield Under Chip Pan








Heat Shield After Removal


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## djm3801 (Jun 2, 2011)

So - if the smoker is reaching temps of 225 to 250 and holding them, why would the element be suspect?


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## Bearcarver (Jun 3, 2011)

djm3801 said:


> So - if the smoker is reaching temps of 225 to 250 and holding them, why would the element be suspect?


I wouldn't suspect it.


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## cobble (Jun 3, 2011)

TJohnson said:


> Cobble,
> 
> Sawdust is combustible at 300° and the cherry alone is right around 300°.
> 
> ...


Todd,

    When you say the "middle row", I'm assuming you mean row 3 of 5, and not every other row, right? I've only used my AMNS once so far and it jumped rows and I burned a full 6x8 in about 15 minutes without realizing it. Until I saw smoke billowing anyway. I've been meaning to do a few dry runs so I can figure out how to properly use it without ruining meat to practice, but it always slips my mind. I'll be doing some testing on Sunday.


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## cobble (Jun 6, 2011)

Ok, so I did some testing yesterday. I used one Polder probe thermometer, one Redi check wireless probe thermometer, and a grill surface thermometer. I set the smoker temp to 230 and let it heat for an hour During that first hour, the temp that the smoker was reading was wildly off from what the probes were reading, and I'm talking about a 30+ degree difference. Once things were heated up though, the smoker thermostat read 231 and by probes were reading about 223. Now at least I know that if I set the temp about 5 or 10 degrees higher, I should get the temp desired. It looks like the chip tray is the culprit after all.

I also used the opportunity to test out my AMNS. I loaded up rows 1, 2, 4, and 5 and lit both sides. What I got was 2 or 3 hours of perfect smoke! There was no row jumping, and everything went flawlessly. Who the hell needs chips when you've got that bad boy? Great purchase!


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## Bearcarver (Jun 6, 2011)

Cobble said:


> Ok, so I did some testing yesterday. I used one Polder probe thermometer, one Redi check wireless probe thermometer, and a grill surface thermometer. I set the smoker temp to 230 and let it heat for an hour During that first hour, the temp that the smoker was reading was wildly off from what the probes were reading, and I'm talking about a 30+ degree difference. Once things were heated up though, the smoker thermostat read 231 and by probes were reading about 223. Now at least I know that if I set the temp about 5 or 10 degrees higher, I should get the temp desired. It looks like the chip tray is the culprit after all.
> 
> I also used the opportunity to test out my AMNS. I loaded up rows 1, 2, 4, and 5 and lit both sides. What I got was 2 or 3 hours of perfect smoke! There was no row jumping, and everything went flawlessly. Who the hell needs chips when you've got that bad boy? Great purchase!


That's what I have found:

It seems the wireless probes are quicker to respond, and the fact that they are out in the open, makes them rise in temp quicker than the MES sensor tucked in the back, on the wall. Then if you don't change your setting for awhile, they all seem to get closer together, something like the same thing we do when we put cheese or bacon in the fridge after smoking it, before we slice it or eat it. It seems to "level the smoker temp out", just like the bacon & cheese flavors seem to "mellow out".

I also enjoy how everyone becomes a believer after trying an AMNS.

Bear


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## tjohnson (Jun 6, 2011)

Cobble,

The AMNS was not designed for use during "Hot Smoking", but we've all found ways to make it work. 

You now have mastered the AMNS!

Welcome to the "A-MAZE-N-ARMY" My Friend!

ENJOY!

Todd


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