# Points, Time and Bark - How, When, Why..I'm confused!



## vanarudy (Aug 5, 2019)

Hello All,
My first time here on the forum.  I've been learning to smoke on a Big Green Egg this summer and came to my first failure yesterday with a brisket point.  It was overcooked, crusty bottom (I had fat cap up) and crumbly.  So sad!

I was following guidlelines from Aaron Franklin's book and various posts online.  I expected 1.25hrs per pound, 5lb flat so about 6.25hours.  Some said to wrap at half way point, some said at 150-160F and Franklin's book said when the bark is ready.  Then I was going to finish it to 205F, but probe it for tenderness to make sure it was ready.  I used smoker temp of 275F and had a water pan underneath.

I did not open the smoker until the half way point as recommended, but by then it was already 180F and no bark and definitely not tender.  I was fixated on the bark so left it on, but at 5hrs, it was still not tender (although I question this now), still no bark and was up over 200F.  I wrapped at that point, let it go another hour or so and took it off.  It felt soft, was easy to probe and had only gone up to 212F.  Rested for an hour.  

So disappointing!  Here are my conclusions and I wonder if anyone can help me make sense of this.

No bark - my understanding is that it is rub, but mostly the time that develops the bark.  I concluded that when smoking a small piece (5lb), it is just not possible for it to be in long enough to develop a bark unless the cooking temp was set much lower?

Time/Temp to wrap - assuming the bark will not form at this temperature for this size cut of meat, should temperature always be used as the indicator to wrap vs bark development (Franklin's recommedation)?  This would have been 1.5 to 2hrs into cooking which just seemed so early in the process!

Total time - I suspect that this point cut would have been done at 3-4hrs if I had wrapped it at 160F.  That is far less than I had read.  Is this because of the smoker temp of 275F?  And/or that the point is so much thinner that a packer cut?  Is that 1.25hrs/lb apply only to the packer and/or flat cuts?

Doneness - Most folks say to call it by feel vs temperature.  And some said they have gone way past the often reported 205F value so I thought my final value of 212F was probably ok.  QUestion is - was the overcooking due to not wrapping it early enough or because it went to 212F?  I'm thinking it was the wrapping point as that would create a moist environment.

Wow!  Long post, but I'm learning so much.  Any tips or answers would be much appreciated!


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## krj (Aug 5, 2019)

> No bark - my understanding is that it is rub, but mostly the time that develops the bark.  I concluded that when smoking a small piece (5lb), it is just not possible for it to be in long enough to develop a bark unless the cooking temp was set much lower?



The reaction to heat/smoke/rub is what creates bark. I most generally don't see the bark I'm looking for until roughly 4 hours in on a whole packer. That said, I'm not after a hard bark so my times vary compared to others. I believe you are on the right train of thought, for something like a 5lb you're likely gonna have to go lower for longer if you're looking for a hard bark.




> Time/Temp to wrap - assuming the bark will not form at this temperature for this size cut of meat, should temperature always be used as the indicator to wrap vs bark development (Franklin's recommedation)?  This would have been 1.5 to 2hrs into cooking which just seemed so early in the process!



Again, this is dependent on the type of bark you're wanting. If you want that hard bark then it's more of a observation over temperature. With my 4hrs I'm normally also at the temperature I want to be to wrap as well. But this is very dependent on the meat weight and smoker temp.




> Total time - I suspect that this point cut would have been done at 3-4hrs if I had wrapped it at 160F.  That is far less than I had read.  Is this because of the smoker temp of 275F?  And/or that the point is so much thinner that a packer cut?  Is that 1.25hrs/lb apply only to the packer and/or flat cuts?



Higher chamber temps means naturally shorter cooks. Adding foil/butcher paper to that equation also lowers the cook time. The 1.25 is likely applied to whole packers because there is a lot more mass and fat to render compared to a 5lb flat.




> Doneness - Most folks say to call it by feel vs temperature.  And some said they have gone way past the often reported 205F value so I thought my final value of 212F was probably ok.  QUestion is - was the overcooking due to not wrapping it early enough or because it went to 212F?  I'm thinking it was the wrapping point as that would create a moist environment.



The overcooking had nothing to do with not wrapping earlier. The bottom being crispy yes that was likely caused by not wrapping earlier. The overcooking was caused by bringing it up to 212 imho. You're dealing with a smaller, leaner cut of meat and it is going to have the tendency to dry out easier.


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## zwiller (Aug 5, 2019)

Hopefully some BGE owners chime in and help but I can tell you Franklin's huge smokers are nothing like a BGE, so you have to have to temper his method a bit.  Big stick burners move TONS more air than smaller smokers like BGE.  Franklin has to wrap to preserve bark from drying out where you and I need help drying.  Last thing I'd do aiming for bark would be to wrap.  For bark, it is essential to me (MES) to form pellicle, that is fan dry the meat until tacky otherwise I get no bark at all.  Grab a $10 small clip on fan somewhere.    

I think 205F is the top end of the range and most guys find brisket is done under this.  I am no brisket guru but 212F seems quite high and think it was the main issue at hand.


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## bregent (Aug 5, 2019)

vanarudy said:


> QUestion is - was the overcooking due to not wrapping it early enough or because it went to 212F?



Quite simply, overcooking is caused by cooking too long. Brisket has a pretty small window for perfection, although a point is much more forgiving than a flat. The only way to really tell when a brisket is done is by feel, and that can take some time for you to get a 'feel' for that.  But you now know what overcooking feels like - next time pull it before it reaches that point.


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## noboundaries (Aug 5, 2019)

I'm confused. Was it a flat, or a point? The OP says point in the first paragraph, a flat in the second.


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## gnarlykaw (Aug 5, 2019)

a packer consists of a point, and a flat.  usually a large piece of meat.  8lb would be a small one, and 12-15lb, well, thats cooking!  the point is usually the larger, thicker portion of the packer.  from my experience, BOTH cook at the same rate.  also, from my experience, the bark is determined by what method of meat prep you perform.   rubs, oils, and overnight wraps...
temps during cooking, will also play a part for the bark.  I used to do low and slow,a nd this was fine with an electric smoker, but not with  stick fired.  im now more of a " hot and heavy" guy.  275-325 IT.   I prefer the toothpick method to determine when its fully cooked, but I also monitor it with a temp probe throughout the cook.  were only interested in a good quarter of an inch of smoke ring in the meat, and every brisket performs differently!   no two behave the same.
  Im merely speaking from my OJH smoker, and Im in NO way a professional with a brisket.


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## vanarudy (Aug 6, 2019)

This is great!  Thank you all for your responses.  As with most things, I know it takes practice, but it's so helpful (and fun) to get some insight from those who've done it.  I might buy another brisket today!


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