# Ash Trey Flavor on my food?



## forgiven1 (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi everyone,

I am pretty new to smoking, but I'm having a great time so far (mostly).    One problem I keep having though is that nasty ash trey flavor on my food.   I am using a Masterbuilt electric smoker, but not with the chip trey.  I have a knock off of the amazin smoke tube, but I buy the genuine hardwood pellets (Hickory and Mesquite).     

I have kept the pellets dry, and they seem to light/smoke ok.   I keep the vent on the top wide open for the entire smoke.   I read here your supposed to get thin blue smoke out the top and I think I am.  It seems thin, and the pellets burn from one end to the other.  I think the smoke has a slight blue tinge to it but I'm not 100% sure.   

When smoking I noticed if the smoke goes directly up and hits the food I get creosote build up so I put a piece of foil below the first bit of food to prevent that and it seems to help.   I can get a descent smoke on some salmon, I do it for only about 4 hours, and with the hardwood chips it comes out good.    I do still taste the creosote a little in that but it's tolerable.   I have noticed that where the racks touch the salmon I get black stripes of creosote though.   The racks are sticky from it.    

The real kicker was when I tried smoking some seasonings.   I did a box of kosher salt, some pepper corns and paprika.    This I did for longer. Starting out cold and then moving to 200 degree heat toward the end (12 hours total).  When they were done it all looked about perfect, medium brown on the salt, paprika was slightly darkened.   When I tasted the salt it was really bad creosote flavor, and the paprika was worse.    I thought maybe I was just going crazy, but the next day with fresh eyes and tasted buds I tried it again.  The paprika was so bad it was like eating a spoon full of cigarette butts :(       After about a week of re-tasting it, I threw it all out. 

Is there something I am missing?


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## noboundaries (Apr 26, 2018)

I don't have an MES, but ash accumulation (ash tray taste) and creosote indicate unburned particulates in your smoke. The above examples all seem to indicate you are cold smoking. What happens when you hot smoke at 225F or higher?


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## mlrtym44 (Apr 26, 2018)

It sounds like you are doing everything right.  Maybe there is something bad with the pellets.  Also, those two are very pungent woods.  maybe mix apple or cherry with a bit of those.  I normal smoke with just a pinch of those 2, then half pecan and half fruit.  The hickory or mesquite is for that initial hard hit then the rest is for the smooth smoke.  If you think/know the pellets are good, get a less harsh wood and mix it.


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## BKING! (Apr 26, 2018)

Can you post a picture of the tube? Wood needs good airflow to burn properly. It might be a design flaw with the tube if it’s a knock off or you need to try different pellets. Your methods don’t seem like the culprit.


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## jted (Apr 26, 2018)

Hi. Good smoke is easy to spot. Daveomark posted this example in 2012. It is the best example of both good and bad. jted


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## BKING! (Apr 26, 2018)

Heck I think the one on the right is still too much smoke. I like to see this come out of my stack


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## forgiven1 (Apr 27, 2018)

noboundaries said:


> I don't have an MES, but ash accumulation (ash tray taste) and creosote indicate unburned particulates in your smoke. The above examples all seem to indicate you are cold smoking. What happens when you hot smoke at 225F or higher?



Yes, basically I am.  The salmon starts out very low, and ends at about 200F.   The seasonings it was all cold accept for about 2 hours at 350.     I've not tried any all hot yet, but I think you are on to something.   I've been reading more about creosote condensing and it seems like most people here are using a separate box/pipe method to reduce that in the food chamber.



BKING! said:


> Can you post a picture of the tube? Wood needs good airflow to burn properly. It might be a design flaw with the tube if it’s a knock off or you need to try different pellets. Your methods don’t seem like the culprit.



I think airflow may also be a part of my problem.  I think the tube itself is ok.










However I have been just setting the tube down on the bottom of the smoker.   I see in this thread it seems some others are placing it up higher, and I've heard a few mention that they use the chip trey loader for additional air flow.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-40-w-amazen-tube-smoker.125249/

I think maybe I will look into the mailbox type mods a bit as it seems that would solve both problems.


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## dr k (Apr 28, 2018)

Get a 3"×24" aluminum vent pipe and bend a coat hanger into a snake and slide it in the pipe and slide in the tube smoker on top of the hanger to elevate the tube smoker and stick the pipe in the chip loader hole. Support the pipe so it's in the hole and horizontal.


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## normanaj (Apr 28, 2018)

forgiven1 said:


> I think airflow may also be a part of my problem. I think the tube itself is ok.


 
I've been using this mod for sometime now:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/basic-mod-for-the-amnts.271846/


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## daveomak (Apr 28, 2018)

Try pulling the chip tube out 1.5" and turn it to the "dump" position...  That allows for more air flow into the smoker...
Also, the "TUBE" smoker, some have found, gives off too much smoke for the smaller MES 30...   You may have to try the AMNPS or only fill the tube 1/2 full....


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## Bearcarver (Apr 28, 2018)

forgiven1 said:


> Yes, basically I am.  The salmon starts out very low, and ends at about 200F.   The seasonings it was all cold accept for about 2 hours at 350.     I've not tried any all hot yet, but I think you are on to something.   I've been reading more about creosote condensing and it seems like most people here are using a separate box/pipe method to reduce that in the food chamber.
> 
> I think airflow may also be a part of my problem.  I think the tube itself is ok.
> 
> ...




I've been using MES Units for 9 years, and I've been using an AMNS or an AMNPS inside my Smokers for 8 years without any Creosote problems or bad flavors.
One thing I won't do is use the Tube smoker in my MES, because for me, no matter what I do the Tube puts out too heavy a smoke (Thick). 
The Tube was designed to work in bigger Smokers, including Gassers, and to be used at higher altitudes than the AMNPS will function at.

Bear


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## gmc2003 (Apr 28, 2018)

A couple things pop into my head. I agree with Bear the tube isn't meant for small smoking chambers. Maybe you could try filling the tube up half way then shaking it down so only half the diameter is filled with pellets. Or maybe your tastes buds are to sensitive. I know the wife and I like a mild smoke profile. While my kids like a heavier smoke taste. 

Chris


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## forgiven1 (May 5, 2018)

Hi gang, here is the update.

I did the mailbox mod to my smoker.







I attempted to use the AMNTS filling it only half way, but I had trouble keeping it lit. 





  I think maybe it would have worked had I played with it a while, but lacking time to fool with it I just filled it up as normal.  

I think this caused me to get more smoke that what would be ideal, but not terrible.






The smoke was fairly thin, but none of it is blue at all.   From reading more on the forum  I see that is common since the temp in the mailbox is not hot enough to produce TBS.

That said the MB mod did eliminate ALL of my creosote problem.    After a 5 hour smoke the glass on my MES had barley a tan stain on it.












The flavor of my Salmon was better this time.   On the front end smokey salty goodness.  The after taste does still carry that white smoke bitterness, but after a day of resting in the fridge it's not too bad. 

I think really for cold smokes what might put the real finishing touches on this is if  I were to build a stainless steel box vs the mail box so that a second electric burner could be added to the box where the pellets are to get the temp up high enough to create the coveted TBS.   Right now it's just a theory since I don't have the extra money in the smoking budget yet.

Super thanks to everyone here.  Your input is so valuable to me!!


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## SonnyE (May 5, 2018)

If your pellets are not really dry, they can be finicky to keep going. (They can draw moisture out of the air)
I use a little trick I learned from daveomak. I sterilize my MES 30 after a smoke, and also do a pre-heat before beginning a smoke. During the pre-heat I put my tray of pellets in and the 275° heat run (2 hours). It drys the pellets out before you fire them off.
For me, I get a more consistent burn this way. (And if I don't do it this way, I often get a problematic burn) :(

PS: I tried the microwave method of drying pellets, but did not like the risk, or the smell in the house. You set fire to the house microwave and there is going to be some pissed off people around you. :eek:


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## johnmeyer (May 5, 2018)

When you smoked your salmon, what type of wood was in your pellets? For salmon, I found that the smoke taste wasn't quite right when I used "strong" tasting woods, like hickory. Many people recommend alder for salmon, and having tried it, I agree. Using different woods for different types of food may help you with any "after taste" issues.


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## normanaj (May 5, 2018)

forgiven1 said:


> I attempted to use the AMNTS filling it only half way, but I had trouble keeping it lit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the same smoker using the u-bolt mod directly in the bottom left of the smoker,zero creosote problems if you adjust the chip loader and use it as an airflow regulator.Use the 6" tube FULL with dry pellets,blast the pellets with a torch and let them burn for 10 mins just like Todd recommends.

Right now on my 4th tube doing a pork butt.Literally 10 secs from door opening,replacing tube and closing door.No issues,nothing but clean TBS.

Edit:I lied...my smoker does not say sportsman elite on the door.


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## forgiven1 (May 5, 2018)

I just realized I forgot to post the picture of my Salmon.   









Johnmeyer I am using hickory.   I've tried other woods like apple and cherry and I do like them.    Maybe  I will order some other pellet flavors as well.


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## daricksta (May 5, 2018)

SonnyE, How do you sterilize your MES? I don't think that's necessary but I'm still curious.


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## Bearcarver (May 5, 2018)

daricksta said:


> How do you sterilize your MES? I don't think that's necessary but I'm still curious.



I believe he just means take it to 275° for an hour or so. Kills a lot of Bad Stuff, and if you have a tray of pellets in there, it'll dry them out good.

Bear


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## daricksta (May 5, 2018)

forgiven1 said:


> I just realized I forgot to post the picture of my Salmon.
> View attachment 362726
> 
> 
> ...


Good looking smoked salmon. I agree with Johnmeyer that hickory is too strong for salmon. However, there is a mindset among some smoking pros that if you were blindfolded and tasted the same meat smoked with different woods you wouldn't be able to tell one from another, that they'd all taste the same. I've never tested this out but I don't agree with it. I use mainly hickory and oak. I have smoked cheeses and jerky using hickory but with my last batch of cheeses I used applewood pellets. I once used alder but didn't like the flavor mixed with the cheese. When I cold smoke salmon later this year I will try alder pellets, or I might convert them to Dust using Kurt "Dr. K"'s method. I also have mesquite, Pitmaster's Choice (cherry, hickory, maple) and pecan. For Dust I have hickory, oak, and apple. I only buy pellets and Dust from Todd Johnson/A-MAZE-N. Todd has been great to me over the years and so I buy all my smoking supplies from him.

Todd also has gourmet and exotic pellets and Dust woods but I've just kept to what I feel are the basics. For my tastes, I match beef brisket with oak, pork ribs or turkey with either hickory or oak, the classic salmon and alder, tri-tip and mesquite for the Santa Maria-style flavor. For pork I also use pecan when I want a lighter but similar flavor to hickory. Pecan is the classic BBQ wood for Carolina-style smoked pulled pork but it can be used with other meats, of course.


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## daricksta (May 5, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I believe he just means take it to 275° for an hour or so. Kills a lot of Bad Stuff, and if you have a tray of pellets in there, it'll dry them out good.
> 
> Bear


Thanks, Bear. I still don't see a need for it. As I've written, I wipe the inside of my smoker down. I wash the racks and the water bowl (since the outside gets covered with oily smoke residue where it wasn't foiled) after every smoke. Cooking at over 200°F will kill all nasties except perhaps for some hiding in contaminated shellfish. I've never sterilized my Weber OTS either. But then I eat an all-natural diet of dirt, rocks and grass so what do I know?:D


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## johnmeyer (May 5, 2018)

daricksta said:


> However, there is a mindset among some smoking pros that if you were blindfolded and tasted the same meat smoked with different woods you wouldn't be able to tell one from another, that they'd all taste the same.


I agree: you can definitely taste the difference. For anyone who might think otherwise, try tasting anything smoked with mesquite, probably the most pungent of all the "mainstream" wood options. It totally "takes over" the taste profile of anything you smoke with it.


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## forgiven1 (May 5, 2018)

Ya, I can tell a huge difference in some woods.   Mesquite to me has a very sweet distinct flavor vs Hickory.   Also i will never forget the first time I tasted something smoked with blackjack oak.


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## forgiven1 (May 5, 2018)

Mmmmm..  Just now pulled out my Mesquite Chicken..  This is a total victory!












Also just as awesome.  I love that this forum allows me to upload pictures directly.   Most forums you have to upload to another site and then post links.


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## daveomak (May 5, 2018)

...

You need air flow through the MailBox mod....    I recommend this pattern using ~7/8" holes...  
AND...  have the flex hose, or rigid hose on an uphill angle to the smoker body....


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## Bearcarver (May 6, 2018)

daricksta said:


> Thanks, Bear. I still don't see a need for it. As I've written, I wipe the inside of my smoker down. I wash the racks and the water bowl (since the outside gets covered with oily smoke residue where it wasn't foiled) after every smoke. Cooking at over 200°F will kill all nasties except perhaps for some hiding in contaminated shellfish. I've never sterilized my Weber OTS either. But then I eat an all-natural diet of dirt, rocks and grass so what do I know?:D




Yup---I never did the "Sterilizing" of my MES with 275° preheat either, but I guess if you allow your pellets to absorb Humidity, it's a better way to dry them out that Nuking them.

Bear


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## daricksta (May 6, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Yup---I never did the "Sterilizing" of my MES with 275° preheat either, but I guess if you allow your pellets to absorb Humidity, it's a better way to dry them out that Nuking them.
> 
> Bear, I've still got pellets I bought from Todd over 5 years ago. I've never had problems with humidity, even here in the Puget Sound area. Maybe I'm just fortunate. Last winter was our least humid in the 18 years I've lived here even though we got plenty of rain and some snow. When I brought out my Weber charcoal kettle grill there was no white mold, and the charcoal wasn't green. I've never had mold or any nasties inside my MES.


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## Bearcarver (May 7, 2018)

Yup---Never had the problem here either, and I swear it's always raining.
20 years ago I could kick up dust when mowing. Haven't seen dust here in at least those 20 years.

Bear


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## daricksta (May 7, 2018)

johnmeyer said:


> I agree: you can definitely taste the difference. For anyone who might think otherwise, try tasting anything smoked with mesquite, probably the most pungent of all the "mainstream" wood options. It totally "takes over" the taste profile of anything you smoke with it.


John, a couple of years ago my daughter bought me an all-day BBQ class in Seattle for Father's Day. It was an amazing and treasured day, but the instructor (who owns the business) was the one who said you can't tell the difference in tastes between wood pellets in a blind tasting of smoked food. I also disagree with that. He also said that once the pellicle forms after about 4 hours on the outside of meats no more smoke can be absorbed. I disagreed with him about that as well.


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## daricksta (May 7, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Yup---Never had the problem here either, and I swear it's always raining.
> 20 years ago I could kick up dust when mowing. Haven't seen dust here in at least those 20 years.
> 
> Bear


Our weather is at the mercy of the two bratty young Spanish siblings: El Niño and La Niña. The latter is in the process of fading away and we don't yet know if her brother is going to take her place later this year.


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## Bearcarver (May 7, 2018)

daricksta said:


> John, a couple of years ago my daughter bought me an all-day BBQ class in Seattle for Father's Day. It was an amazing and treasured day, but the instructor (who owns the business) was the one who said you can't tell the difference in tastes between wood pellets in a blind tasting of smoked food. I also disagree with that. He also said that once the pellicle forms after about 4 hours on the outside of meats no more smoke can be absorbed. I disagreed with him about that as well.




Hmmm, Reminds me of an old saying---> "Those who can, do, and those who can't, Teach".
I don't normally agree with that, but sometimes it fits.

Bear


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## johnmeyer (May 7, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Hmmm, Reminds me of an old saying---> "Those who can, do, and those who can't, Teach".
> I don't normally agree with that, but sometimes it fits. Bear


I almost always agree with that. 

I think there may be a corollary for the Internet: "Those who can, do, and those who can't, they post on the Internet."


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## daricksta (May 8, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Hmmm, Reminds me of an old saying---> "Those who can, do, and those who can't, Teach".
> I don't normally agree with that, but sometimes it fits.
> 
> I know that you and others here on SMF have corrected him on these issues. But I just let that his incorrect info slide because on that day I got to use a Trager and a BGE, help season a beef brisket and taste all kinds of great stuff. There was something like 20-30 of us there on a beautiful warm sunny day. And I got some great recipes, too.


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## Bearcarver (May 8, 2018)

daricksta said:


> I know that you and others here on SMF have corrected him on these issues. But I just let that his incorrect info slide because on that day I got to use a Trager and a BGE, help season a beef brisket and taste all kinds of great stuff. There was something like 20-30 of us there on a beautiful warm sunny day. And I got some great recipes, too.




Definitely Worth it then!!

Bear


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