# Fatties and Food Safety



## fajitapot (Jan 27, 2019)

All this talk about fatties has inspired me to make some for the Super Bowl. But I noticed that no one seems to use Cure #1 in their recipes. Why is this?


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## HalfSmoked (Jan 27, 2019)

You are using it right away. Would be the same as doing a butt or ribs or a beef brisket.

Warren I'm sure there will be more added to this.

Warren


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## oddegan (Jan 27, 2019)

Typically fatties are assembled and then cooked so that bad stuff doesn't have time to grow. Mine never take more time than half an hour to put together and then into the smoker they go.


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jan 27, 2019)

Plus aren't you usually using sausage and bacon that has already been cured?


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## fajitapot (Jan 27, 2019)

HalfSmoked said:


> You are using it right away. Would be the same as doing a butt or ribs or a beef brisket.



These are whole muscles though, not comminuted.



oddegan said:


> Typically fatties are assembled and then cooked so that bad stuff doesn't have time to grow. Mine never take more time than half an hour to put together and then into the smoker they go.



When smoking sausage it's typically 24hours after linking that they get smoked - this is why the Cure #1 is required?



SecondHandSmoker said:


> Plus aren't you usually using sausage and bacon that has already been cured?



I see a lot of breakfast and italian sausage used, these don't have curing salts, generally. Ground beef is frequently used as well.


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## SecondHandSmoker (Jan 27, 2019)

fajitapot said:


> I see a lot of breakfast and italian sausage used, these don't have curing salts, generally. Ground beef is frequently used as well.



Correct.  And that is where the 40* to 140* in 4 hours rule is applicable for safety.


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## motocrash (Jan 27, 2019)

It's a meatloaf.


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## IA pigsNcrops (Jan 27, 2019)

Agree with posters about  cooking it without delay,  plus i always cook to a the safe IT for the sausage we are using.


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## oddegan (Jan 27, 2019)

I do use #1 or TQ if I am refrigerating my links overnight, but a fattie is in essence just a complicated meat loaf.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 27, 2019)

Cure, in terms of Safety, lets you Cool Smoke, 100 to 180°F or Cold Smoke ambient to 100°F. Any meat, whole muscle, ground, injected or Fresh sausage (breakfast, Italian ,brats) MUST be Hot Smoked at 225°+. 
Fatties made with sausage, get Hot Smoke, ALWAYS for two reasons, they are most commonly made with Fresh Sausage or Ground Meat and are Stuffed, with precooked or raw ingredients that can harbour any number of bacteria...JJ


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## fajitapot (Jan 27, 2019)

SecondHandSmoker said:


> Correct.  And that is where to 40* to 140* in 4 hours is applicable for safety.



But 40℉ to 140℉ in four hours is true for most sausages stuffed in hog casings, and they rarely take longer than that (but use Cure #1).



motocrash said:


> It's a meatloaf.



Sure, but I guess that's what makes this a little confusing for me. It's a meatloaf but it's not inherently different from any sausage that is smoked and requires Cure #1 for safety. 



oddegan said:


> I do use #1 or TQ if I am refrigerating my links overnight, but a fattie is in essence just a complicated meat loaf.



So is it the overnight rest before smoking that makes the Cure #1 more critical?


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## fajitapot (Jan 27, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> Cure, in terms of Safety, lets you Cool Smoke, 100 to 180°F or Cold Smoke ambient to 100°F. Any meat, whole muscle, ground, injected or Fresh sausage (breakfast, Italian ,brats) MUST be Hot Smoked at 225°+.
> Fatties made with sausage, get Hot Smoke, ALWAYS for two reasons, they are most commonly made with Fresh Sausage or Ground Meat and are Stuffed, with precooked or raw ingredients that can harbour any number of bacteria...JJ



Thanks JJ! So if I smoked my andouille (for example) at 225℉+ cure #1 is not required?


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## oddegan (Jan 27, 2019)

More for the cool smoking than anything else. I like to smoke my sausages at 200 cause it takes longer to get to my target IT so they soak up a lot of smoke. I like it for the overnight just cause I've read so many of @daveomak articles that I am maybe a little over cautious.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 27, 2019)

fajitapot said:


> Thanks JJ! So if I smoked my andouille (for example) at 225℉+ cure #1 is not required?



Correct. Without the cure, the high temp kills any bacteria before it has a chance to grow. The flavor will be somewhat different, no hammy flavor, but still tasty...JJ


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## fajitapot (Jan 27, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> Correct. Without the cure, the high temp kills any bacteria before it has a chance to grow. The flavor will be somewhat different, no hammy flavor, but still tasty...JJ



Thank you for the clarity. And the high temp is why the 40℉ - 140℉ in four hours rule doesn't apply in the case of briskets, pork butts, and a five hour fatty?


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## indaswamp (Jan 27, 2019)

fajitapot said:


> These are whole muscles though, not comminuted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fresh sausages like brats do not use cure, and typically they are grilled @ 250~300 degrees and pushed through the danger zone before the 4 hour time clock is up. Cure #1 is used in smoke sausages because we are smoking them at low temps. i.e. 130~170* and those sausages will be in the danger zone longer than 4 hours. We do this so the links do not get any 'fat out' which will occur when cookig sausages above ~180*F.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 27, 2019)

Whole intact muscle only has bacteria on the surface. At 225+ the bacteria are killed in the first hour. How long the interior take to get to temp does not matter. Nothing there to grow and make you sick.
Regarding a 5 hour Fatties getting to a 140+ IT. 4 hours is a guideline that is easy to remember but taking a little longer, 5 hours, is usually no issue because of the growth characteristics of bacteria. They can take longer to get out of bed and get going than a teenage boy!...JJ


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## fajitapot (Jan 27, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> Whole intact muscle only has bacteria on the surface. At 225+ the bacteria are killed in the first hour. How long the interior take to get to temp does not matter. Nothing there to grow and make you sick.
> Regarding a 5 hour Fatties getting to a 140+ IT. 4 hours is a guideline that is easy to remember but taking a little longer, 5 hours, is usually no issue because of the growth characteristics of bacteria. They can take longer to get out of bed and get going than a teenage boy!...JJ



Perfect, thank you! I vaguely remember reading about this after following the Mariankis' down one of their rabbit holes, but feel like I understand it much more now. Thanks!


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## uncle eddie (Jan 27, 2019)

oddegan said:


> Typically fatties are assembled and then cooked so that bad stuff doesn't have time to grow. Mine never take more time than half an hour to put together and then into the smoker they go.



^^^Ditto above^^^


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## HalfSmoked (Jan 28, 2019)

secondhandsmoker Thanks for the like.

Warren


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