# smoking bacon... COLD OR HOT SMOKE?



## yankee2cajn

O.K.  I have 3 slabs of bacon, with 3 varities of dry cures.  I am almost ready to smoke and I am reading a lot of different options on smoking times and temperatures.  Any advice on which methood is preferred for bacon?  
Thanks,
Greg


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## pineywoods

I take it the bacon is cured or being cured. Personally I cold smoke my bacon as all I really care about is getting the smoke flavor I will cook it before eating it. The one exception I have is Canadian Bacon because most of the time we use it for making sandwiches so I cold smoke it for awhile then hot smoke it to get my temp up to 160 internal and it can be used for sandwiches without having to do anything else with it


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## scarbelly

Hey Piney - how long do you cold smoke on the bacon - I got some sawdust from Yount in an exchange and was thinking of trying to make a cold smoking pan with some foil in a circle and burn the sawdust


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## pineywoods

With skin off I usually apply smoke about 8-9 hours for bellies. If I were to do skin on again I think it'd be 12-14 hours of smoke


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## tjohnson

I cold smoked bacon in my MES for 6 1/2 hours @ 125 degrees.  I think it depends somewhat on the size of the smoker and the output of the smoke generator and even the type of wood used for smoking.

I'm far from having an expert opinion, but screwed up enough times to what NOT to do!

Todd


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## mballi3011

I would cold smoke them like Jerry said to. I was there helping Jerry, Brian and Justin with the bacon. Yea I would make sure that the skin is cot off before you cure or smoke it, it just seem to be easier to cure and it will take the smoke alot easier. Oh yea we did about 170lbs of buckboard bacon too.


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## dadwith4daughters

No question, cold smoking is the best way to go. But when you're tight on time, hot smoking to about 150 works well. Takes about 3 hours for me.


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## Bearcarver

There doesn't seem to be a bad way to smoke bacon, as long as it is cured properly.
Many get great results from cold smoking.
I hot smoke mine starting at 100 degrees, and moving up very gradually.
I have pulled my bacons out at 129 degrees, 141 degrees, and 147 degrees internal temps. They were all great.

I, like Jerry (Pineywoods) & many others take my CB up to 160 so it can be eaten as is or warmed up just a little.


Bearcarver


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## yankee2cajn

Piney, I bought the book Charcuterie because there were soo many dry cure recipes on the blogs.  I did one cure with just their standard dry cure recipe, one cure w/ the standard dry cure + our tasso seasoning mix, and one with the dry cure + paprika, onion powder, garlic powder and mustard powder.  The pork bellies have been in the walk-in since Friday, so Tomorrow I will take them out of the bags and fry up a small piece to see how the salt content is, and then I think I will try cold smoking.  Charcuterie defines cold smoking as temps bet 90-100 degrees.  Is that the temps you maintain?  THanks Greg


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## yankee2cajn

Thats a lot of bacon.  We get meat wholesale so my wife wouldn't let me buy a case of pork bellies to start out (she lacks confidence in my ability to get it right the first time lol) , but if this first trial turns out well I will probaly buy a case next time (about 75 lbs.)


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## pineywoods

Greg be sure to rinse the slabs before doing your fry test. I personally smoke at as low a temp as I can when doing bacon. The big smoke we just did the highest the temps got was 110 and that was only for a short time most of it was 90-100. Being in Fl and the fact that the smokehouse has a metal roof that gets sun on it my temps in the summer tend to get higher but I try very hard to keep them under 120. If the temps get to high it will start rendering the fat out and thats not something I want to do when doing bacon. We had the great fortune to buy bellies at wholesale this last time but we had to buy by the case but with several us doing it at the same time that was no problem they said the cases would weigh between 50 and 60 lbs and 3 cases came to 169.73 lbs. As far as different recipes I personally think the sky is the limit as long as the proper amount of cure is used you can mix whatever spices you want I have found the Hi Mountain Buckboard Bacon cure works well with bellies and so far everybody that has tried my bacon has liked it or lied and told me they did 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 Good luck with your bacon making and be sure to take lots of pics. The next time your wife will probably want you to do more lbs and don't share with people or you'll have to do even more


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## rbranstner

I have only smoked one big batch and I smoked them with my ribs so I was hot smoking them at 225 until they reached 140 or so. They still need to be fried before eating them. They came out AWESOME. I have never tried cold smoking them. I will probably do a batch that way in the future to see which I like better. So either way you do it they will come out good.


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## cowgirl

I prefer cold smoke. 65 to 75 degrees F. I do not cook my bacon or bring it up to an internal temperature. I cold smoke to add smoke flavor.
Bacon fat starts rendering at a temperature of 82 degrees and above...

here is a good link that explains a bit more about cold, warm and hot smoking.
http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/smoking-meat.htm


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## pineywoods

I'd like to smoke my bacon at those temps too but Fl sun doesn't usually allow that


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## cowgirl

lol last summer I had a spell of 105 degree weather. I did a test run on the smokehouse and brought it up to 108.. I was happy with that.
It was for smoking seasonings, nuts, salts and cheeses. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





forgot to add.. a tub of ice works in some smokers to bring the temp down.


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## pineywoods

Thats not bad at all I find my setup doesn't raise the temp more than a couple degrees more than what the inside temp of the smokehouse is with just the sun beating down on it I have considered setting a sprinkler on it to keep it cooler or putting another roof over it to keep the direct sun off it. As funny as it may sound I have sprinklers on top of the cook-shed and in the heat of summer with the sun out it will often lower the inside temps 20-30 degrees


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## cowgirl

Great idea! I bet a sprinkler or mist system would work fine.


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## yankee2cajn

cowgirl.

thanks for the info. I really appreciate the advice.  I think I can maintain between 90 and 100 fairly easy.  My smokehouse roof (this is a roof over the smokers and not actually the roof of the smoker) is standing seam galvalume, but I have a radiant barrier installed and the warmest it gets, even in the Louisiana summers is 95.  I'm excited to try cold smoking because my smokers are divided into 4 different chambers, and I left a 16" x 16" opening in the fire pit between two of them, so the thinking is to smoke sausage in one with my regular fire and to open the metal door to the other and cold smoke the bacon that way.  I will take pics. Probaly a Friday or Saturday event.  Once again, thanks for the info.
Greg


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## cowgirl

You're sure welcome Greg!
I like the sound of your set up. Have you posted pictures? I'd love to see it.


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## pineywoods

Greg when your done with the smoke if you will put the bacon in the fridge for a few days before slicing it will allow the smoke to kinda meld and even out a little. Of course slicing off a few sample pieces while waiting to slice it all is allowed


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## yankee2cajn

Piney,
I have a seperate roof over my smokers and it works great.  I have a radiant barrier installed on the underside of the roof and the warmest it gets in my smoke area is 95 degrees, even in the dead of a Louisana summer.  I also have 3 speed commercial fans above my smokers, but below the roof to get rid of the smoke.  I also have 3 speed commercial fans that blow cool air (these fans are installed low to the ground) in to the area.  I'm sure your summers are as brutal as ours and these things really make being in the room a lot better.  Anyway, if you need any installation methods let me know and I will be glad to help
Thanks,
Greg


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## yankee2cajn

I have a couple of Qview shots of my bacon after being hot smoked. I wanted to cold smoke, but I was smoking 8 briskets, 12 pork butts, 5 ponces (pork sausage in a pork stomach), Pork Tasso, Turkey Sausage, pork sausage and garlic pork sausage, so I couldn't juggle the cold smoking for this run. I like the way it came out. I used 3 different dry cure recipes. For all 3 I used the basic dry cure rub from charcuterie. Dry cure 1 consisted only of the basic dry cure from chartuterie. dry cure 2 consisted of the basic dry cure rub from charcuterie + 1tbs of garlic powder, onions powder, paprika and dried mustard, dry cure recipe 3 consisted of the basic dry cure rub from charcuterie + 2 tbs of our tasso seasoning. I used Steens cane syrup in lieu of maple syrup for sweetness. Anyway, trying to do this q-view for the first time  i'll give it a shot.


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## tjohnson

Which of the (3) bacon recipes did you like best?


Todd


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## yankee2cajn

I liked the one with the seasonings we use for our Tasso, but the the recipe with the onion powder, garlic powder, etc.  was a close second.  I think if we sale the bacon at our restaurant / specialty meats store  we would stick with the more traditional seasoning mix.  By the way,  I really like the flavor that the steens cane syrup gave.  It really added a regional flare to the recipe.


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## old poi dog

Great thread here.  Thanks all.


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## smokinsteve

Were you able to generate smoke at that temp?  I have heard that the MES has trouble with generating smoke below 180F.  I am getting one in a few days and I would love to move my bacon production to the MES.


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## beer-b-q

SmokinSteve said:


> Were you able to generate smoke at that temp?  I have heard that the MES has trouble with generating smoke below 180F.   I am getting one in a few days and I would love to move my bacon production to the MES.


Not a problem, Buy an A-MAZE-N-SMOKER and that will solve all your cold smoke problems...  A bunch of members here have the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER and the MES Smokers and will swear by them.

http://www.amazenproducts.com/Products.html


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## flyers37

When cold smoking do I need to have my bowl of water in the smoker. I have an mes30 using the amnps. Thanks


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## wade

Hi Flyers37

No you do not need the bowl of water. There will be water vapour produced from the smoke generator and you don't want to be adding any more.


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## flyers37

thanks. That what I thought.


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## cmayna

Interesting thread for a butcher friend is going to give me 2-3 big chunks of thick sliced bacon.   Can I cold smoke sliced bacon if left in a layered configuration (as what we normally see when buying sliced bacon)?


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## wade

I have never tried doing it that way. My feeling though that it would be best smoked spread out for a short period of time. Maybe someone else on here has experience of doing this.


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## id2nv2nj2ca

OK, I am going to be curing my first pork belly tomorrow. In 7 days, I plan to smoke it with apple pellets in my AMAZEN pellet smoker in my mailbox modification with my MES 40. My question, which seems to have multiple answers is, do I completely cold smoke it? And for how long? Or smoke with heat, at what temperature and for how long? We obviously don't want it to taste like a forest fire, but definitely want that yummy applewood smoked flavor. :)

Thanks. 

Oh, just planning on curing powder, salt and brown sugar for the cure. With possibly maple syrup or honey. Any suggestions on something else since I have a big enough slab I could do two different flavors?


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## Bearcarver

id2nv2nj2ca said:


> OK, I am going to be curing my first pork belly tomorrow. In 7 days, I plan to smoke it with apple pellets in my AMAZEN pellet smoker in my mailbox modification with my MES 40. My question, which seems to have multiple answers is, do I completely cold smoke it? And for how long? Or smoke with heat, at what temperature and for how long? We obviously don't want it to taste like a forest fire, but definitely want that yummy applewood smoked flavor. :)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Oh, just planning on curing powder, salt and brown sugar for the cure. With possibly maple syrup or honey. Any suggestions on something else since I have a big enough slab I could do two different flavors?


Some People Prefer Cold Smoking all the way, which gives a great product over time.

I prefer what I call "Warm Smoking" (between 100° and 130° smoker temp).

I find I get great color and flavor in no longer than 8 to 11 hours that way.

Here is a Step by Step of how I do it:

*Bacon (Extra Smoky)*

*Bear*


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## daveomak

id2nv2nj2ca said:


> OK, I am going to be curing my first pork belly tomorrow. In 7 days, I plan to smoke it with apple pellets in my AMAZEN pellet smoker in my mailbox modification with my MES 40. My question, which seems to have multiple answers is, do I completely cold smoke it? And for how long? Or smoke with heat, at what temperature and for how long? We obviously don't want it to taste like a forest fire, but definitely want that yummy applewood smoked flavor. :)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Oh, just planning on curing powder, salt and brown sugar for the cure. With possibly maple syrup or honey. Any suggestions on something else since I have a big enough slab I could do two different flavors?


This is what I did my last batch....   Best bacon I ever made...    Basically, 14 days in the cure... 7 days rest in the refer...  4-24 hours cold smoke below 70 deg. F....   7 days rest in the refer.. partially freeze and slice....

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...t-dry-brined-bacon-aug-2015-8-23-money-update


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## jpgauthi79

Id2, you will hear different opinions. Personally, they are all correct, it just depends on what you like. I recently did some (title is Belly Bacon - 3 day smoke) where I kept the temps in between 100 and 120 for the majority of the time in my MES 30. The heat came solely from my AMZNPS burning pecan pellets. I love that temp because it gives the bacon a great color.

As for toppers when curing, after I cured and before I refer'ed overnight before smoking, I dusted the top with onion powder, garlic powder and fresh cracked black pepper. You can distinctly taste those flavors even after baking. Try it out if you are looking for an alternative.


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## flagg

Just checking in so I can find thread later.  Good info here


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## johnnjanet

Just checking in too, will fill more about me later. Trying to cold smoke some bacon for a gift yay,if we don't eat it first. I've only done warm smoke before, which all loved. Cold smoke in BGE with amazn smoker...


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## tallbm

Thread... RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!!!

Ok, I plan to smoke about 10 pounds of pork belly for bacon maybe as early as next weekend.

This thread has great info and debate on cold vs hot.  I am thinking I will do a little of both cold'ish and hot smoking but only because I don't know if they produce a different texture.  I'm sure I can get the smoke flavor with either approach.. 

My questions are:

1. When fried, is the texture of the bacon any different when cold smoked (no heat) vs hot smoked ( IT 145F)?

2. If so what is the texture like cold smoked?         (I imagine the same as what store bought produces)

3. If so what is the texture liked hot smoked ( IT 145F)?

I personally like soft bacon but most people I know like crispy bacon.  I would like to be able to produce both types of textures but have read some cases where the bacon doesn't get crispy.  I know my Ground Formed Bacon wouldn't get crispy like bacon but GFB is a different ballgame.  Once I know what will be produced I may plan to do both types of smokes to then see which one I like best or stick with the approach that gives me the soft or crispy texture after frying. 

I am thinking I would prefer hot smoking because I like shorter times vs half a day smoking.  I like the idea of being able to eat the bacon when it comes out of the smoker (provided I go to a safe IT) of when it is cold.  Finally, reports are that the color and smoke absorption is better at higher/hot temps.  

Your answers to the questions and feedback are greatly appreciated :)


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## ab canuck

I can't give you any answers but I will be waiting with some questions, I will be ready to do some in may and am doing research for it.


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## Bearcarver

TallBM said:


> Thread... RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!!!
> 
> Ok, I plan to smoke about 10 pounds of pork belly for bacon maybe as early as next weekend.
> 
> This thread has great info and debate on cold vs hot.  I am thinking I will do a little of both cold'ish and hot smoking but only because I don't know if they produce a different texture.  I'm sure I can get the smoke flavor with either approach..
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1. When fried, is the texture of the bacon any different when cold smoked (no heat) vs hot smoked ( IT 145F)?
> 
> 2. If so what is the texture like cold smoked?         (I imagine the same as what store bought produces)
> 
> 3. If so what is the texture liked hot smoked ( IT 145F)?
> 
> I personally like soft bacon but most people I know like crispy bacon.  I would like to be able to produce both types of textures but have read some cases where the bacon doesn't get crispy.  I know my Ground Formed Bacon wouldn't get crispy like bacon but GFB is a different ballgame.  Once I know what will be produced I may plan to do both types of smokes to then see which one I like best or stick with the approach that gives me the soft or crispy texture after frying.
> 
> I am thinking I would prefer hot smoking because I like shorter times vs half a day smoking.  I like the idea of being able to eat the bacon when it comes out of the smoker (provided I go to a safe IT) of when it is cold.  Finally, reports are that the color and smoke absorption is better at higher/hot temps.
> 
> Your answers to the questions and feedback are greatly appreciated :)


Try what I call "Warm" Smoking, by using a Smoker Temp of about 120°  (110° to 130°).

That's Warm enough to get good color & flavor in half the time of Cold Smoking, but not Hot enough to Render any Fat:

Like This "Step by Step":

*Bacon (Extra Smoky)*

Then you can "Hot Smoke" some Buckboard Bacon & some Canadian Bacon to 145° IT, so you'll have some you can eat Cold.

Bear


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## tallbm

Bearcarver said:


> Try what I call "Warm" Smoking, by using a Smoker Temp of about 120°  (110° to 130°).
> 
> That's Warm enough to get good color & flavor in half the time of Cold Smoking, but not Hot enough to Render any Fat:
> 
> Like This "Step by Step":
> 
> *Bacon (Extra Smoky)*
> 
> Then you can "Hot Smoke" some Buckboard Bacon & some Canadian Bacon to 145° IT, so you'll have some you can eat Cold.
> 
> Bear


That was my initial plan unless someone says texture would be a problem, I don't think texture will be though.  

I originally read your step by step and with your info/advice I knew I would want to warm smoke some.  You raise too many good points in your post about the warm smoke so I will surely follow those guidelines.

I may also save a smaller piece of pork belly to experiment with by walking a temp up to 160F.  I've read that when smoking sausage to use a temp of 160-165F max to keep the fat in sausage from rendering.  I'm wondering if the bacon fat would also work at those temps.  Only playing around will let me know but I will only experiment with one piece of the whole batch :)


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## tallbm

AB Canuck said:


> I can't give you any answers but I will be waiting with some questions, I will be ready to do some in may and am doing research for it.


Hopefully I'll have some answers.  I like experimenting a bit so I'm sure I'll be trying something out of the ordinary or try something out there that doesn't have much detailed info so I can answer any questions I have :)


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## Bearcarver

TallBM said:


> That was my initial plan unless someone says texture would be a problem, I don't think texture will be though.
> 
> I originally read your step by step and with your info/advice I knew I would want to warm smoke some.  You raise too many good points in your post about the warm smoke so I will surely follow those guidelines.
> 
> I may also save a smaller piece of pork belly to experiment with by walking a temp up to 160F.  I've read that when smoking sausage to use a temp of 160-165F max to keep the fat in sausage from rendering.  I'm wondering if the bacon fat would also work at those temps.  Only playing around will let me know but I will only experiment with one piece of the whole batch :)


The Bacon fat will generally begin to render at about 140°.

I've had a few spikes to 140° while holding 120° to 130°, and no problem, but holding it at 140° for any length of time will do some rendering.

At least that's what I experienced.

Bear


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## tallbm

Thanks Bear!

That is good info to have.  I will use it for sure when I smoke the bacon.  I bought 16 pounds of belly and have it curing right now.  I will post when it is all done :)


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## saucey456

I've been reading don't use cure #1 If cold smoking does this mean do to eat bacon before cooking or don't use cure #1 When cold smoking


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## tallbm

saucey456 said:


> I've been reading don't use cure #1 If cold smoking does this mean do to eat bacon before cooking or don't use cure #1 When cold smoking


Hi there and welcome!

Bacteria grows most rapidly between the temps of 40F (4.4C) and 140F (60C) see some guidelines here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...uCN-f5xRqe0ESMojg&sig2=P7-swWSjnxL0hE4rRwAAxA

It has been stated often here on the forum that if you are going to have meat in that temperature range for 4 hours or more then you should cure #1 it while smoking/cooking.

You will want to make sure your bacon is cooked/fried to an internal temperature of 145F or higher.  If it is wild pig bacon then go up to 160F.  Do not eat the bacon if it has never been cooked to the internal temperatures I just mentioned.

So in short, use cure #1 when smoking bacon and use the proper amounts, no more no less (1tsp per 5 pounds). 

I hope this helps :)


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## daveomak

saucey456 said:


> I've been reading don't use cure #1 If cold smoking does this mean do to eat bacon before cooking or don't use cure #1 When cold smoking


Whenever you put meat in a smoker, it is advisable to use cure#1 to cure the meat...   It prevents botulism and other pathogens from growing....   Cold smoking meats has been around for centuries...  It's a method for preserving meats... 

There is one site, on the web, that mentions cold smoking is dangerous and should never be attempted, unless you are an expert or something like that....  

Want to be an expert ???   Properly salt and cure the meat...  smoke with light smoke for (up to days) at a temp below 70ish deg. F...   Properly cook the meat prior to eating....

The information below is from Stanly Marianski's web site...  He is a member on this forum.. 
[h1]Cold Smoking[/h1]
Cold smoking at 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1-14 days, applying thin smoke with occasional breaks in between, is one of the oldest preservation methods. We cannot produce cold smoke if the outside temperature is 90° F (32° C), unless we can cool it down, which is what some industrial smokers do. Cold smoking is a drying process whose purpose is to remove moisture thus preserving a product.

You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C). Cold smoking assures us of total smoke penetration inside of the meat. The loss of moisture also is uniform in all areas and the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Cold smoking is not a continuous process, it is stopped (no smoke) a few times to allow fresh air into the smoker.

In XVIII century brick built smokehouses a fire was started every morning. It smoldered as long as it could and if it stopped, it would be restarted again the following morning.








Cold smoked meats prevent or slow down the spoilage of fats, which increases their shelf life. The product is drier and saltier with a more pronounced smoky flavor and very long shelf life. The color varies from yellow to dark brown on the surface and dark red inside. Cold smoked products are not submitted to the cooking process. If you want to cold smoke your meats, bear in mind that with the exception of people living in areas with a cold climate like Alaska, it will have to be done in the winter months just as it was done 500 years ago.



















Cold smoking at its best. Smoking continues through the night. _Photos courtesy Waldemar Kozik._

Using dry wood is of utmost importance when cold smoking. It is recommended to keep wood chips in a well defined single pile as they will have less contact with air, thus will smoke better without creating unnecessary flames and heat. By following these rules we achieve 75-85% humidity, creating the best conditions for moisture removal. Once the moisture content drops low enough, the salt present in the meat will further inhibit the development of bacteria and the products can hang in the air for months losing more moisture as time goes by.

Lox (smoked salmon) is smoked with cold smoke for an extended period of time. Applying hotter smoke (over 84° F, 28° C) will just cook the fish, the flavor will change and we will not be able to slice it so thin anymore. Cold smoking is a slow process and the hams, which lend themselves perfectly to this type of smoking, can be smoked from 2 to even 6 weeks. During smoking they will slowly be acquiring a golden color along with a smoky flavor.







Cold smoking allows us total smoke penetration inside of the meat. Very little hardening of the outside surface of the meat or casing occurs and smoke penetrates the meat easily.







Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.


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## ab canuck

Great info as always Dave,....


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## ddrian

70 degrees where you and cowgirl hang on the cold smoke. That's the safe zone ! I'll try the procedure you just posted with some Buckboard soon!


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## ddrian

In Texas 70 degrees in a smoke house is a refrigerator! (Smile). Has anyone set up a man cooled cold smokehouse and what works?


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## browneyesvictim

ddrian said:


> In Texas 70 degrees in a smoke house is a refrigerator! (Smile). Has anyone set up a man cooled cold smokehouse and what works?


dd- It depends on what kind of smoker you are using as far as keeping temperatures down. I'm guessing most folks just roll with what ambient temperatures they have. However, you need to use a COLD smoke generator of some sort. In other words, don't use the burner inside your smoker to keep your type of wood burning , but rather a tube or maze tray of pellets or dust or anything similar that you light and it will raise your only temps marginally. Some will put pans of ice or frozen water bottles in their smoker to keep temps down, but that can open up creosote issues depending on your smoker set-up.


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## ddrian

In Dallas right now it's 90 degrees and getting hotter every day. The smoker cabinet is outside so it will be minimn of 90 degrees starting out. 
I understand a cold smoke gen off site from the cabinet! Thanks for that. 
Can you air condition the smoke cabinet in some way that is safe to 70 degrees? Ice would help but as you said cause issues taste and health wise


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## browneyesvictim

ddrian said:


> In Dallas right now it's 90 degrees and getting hotter every day. The smoker cabinet is outside so it will be minimn of 90 degrees starting out.
> I understand a cold smoke gen off site from the cabinet! Thanks for that.
> Can you air condition the smoke cabinet in some way that is safe to 70 degrees? Ice would help but as you said cause issues taste and health wise


Check out http://www.amazenproducts.com/

Highly recommend the 5x7 maze tray called an AMNPS. Put that sucker right inside your cabinet! It doesn't need to be in a separate box outside your cabinet although that is more ideal. I didn't catch what kind of cabinet smoker you have, but you just need to keep your vents open for enough oxygen to keep your pellets smoldering. Even in Texas at 100' or even 110' outside air temps I doubt your smoker will get over 125' inside the smoker without any need for cooling. That's a "Warm Smoke" and perfectly acceptable and excellent range to smoke bacon.


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## daveomak

ddrian said:


> In Dallas right now it's 90 degrees and getting hotter every day. The smoker cabinet is outside so it will be minimn of 90 degrees starting out.
> I understand a cold smoke gen off site from the cabinet! Thanks for that.
> Can you air condition the smoke cabinet in some way that is safe to 70 degrees? Ice would help but as you said cause issues taste and health wise


You can smoke the meat at night....    Around here it can be 90+ during the day and drop into the 40's or 50's at night...  there's usually a cool window from midnight to 8 AM....   I will hang the pig belly in the smoker around 10 PM or so ...  give it a chance to warm up...   I don't smoke, cold refrigerated meats...  the meat should be up to ambient temp...   then add the AMNPS with around 6 hours worth of pellets when the temp gets to about 70 ish...    Come back in the morning....   Now granted, some nights never get down to 70 so I wait.....













Temperature.png



__ daveomak
__ May 31, 2017


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## ddrian

Browneyesvictim said:


> Check out http://www.amazenproducts.com/
> 
> Highly recommend the 5x7 maze tray called an AMNPS. Put that sucker right inside your cabinet! It doesn't need to be in a separate box outside your cabinet although that is more ideal. I didn't catch what kind of cabinet smoker you have, but you just need to keep your vents open for enough oxygen to keep your pellets smoldering. Even in Texas at 100' or even 110' outside air temps I doubt your smoker will get over 125' inside the smoker without any need for cooling. That's a "Warm Smoke" and perfectly acceptable and excellent range to smoke bacon.


Thanks for the tip on the AMNPS I have read several good articles on them. I have a few smokers. A vertical offset Stick burner and a Smokin Tex electric. Both serve well for hot smoking. I will run a smoke gen of some type once I get the cabinet temp question figured out. I understand warm and hot smoking.  Hot smoke I am not afraid of and do it all the time.  I was trying to get to 70 degrees in a hot climate to cold smoke fish bacon and cheese. Ihave hot smoked Bacon and fish but Cheese ...well I don't want that mess!! !LOL!


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## ddrian

DaveOmak said:


> You can smoke the meat at night....    Around here it can be 90+ during the day and drop into the 40's or 50's at night...  there's usually a cool window from midnight to 8 AM....   I will hang the pig belly in the smoker around 10 PM or so ...  give it a chance to warm up...   I don't smoke, cold refrigerated meats...  the meat should be up to ambient temp...   then add the AMNPS with around 6 hours worth of pellets when the temp gets to about 70 ish...    Come back in the morning....   Now granted, some nights never get down to 70 so I wait.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Temperature.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ daveomak
> __ May 31, 2017


Ill see what the weather is bringing Dave Thanks...


----------



## Bearcarver

DaveOmak said:


> You can smoke the meat at night....    Around here it can be 90+ during the day and drop into the 40's or 50's at night...  there's usually a cool window from midnight to 8 AM....   I will hang the pig belly in the smoker around 10 PM or so ...  give it a chance to warm up...   I don't smoke, cold refrigerated meats...  the meat should be up to ambient temp...   then add the AMNPS with around 6 hours worth of pellets when the temp gets to about 70 ish...    Come back in the morning....   Now granted, some nights never get down to 70 so I wait.....


LOL---A couple weeks ago we had 3 days in a row over 90°. Then the next morning it was 36° when I got up!!

Bear


----------



## tallbm

ddrian said:


> In Dallas right now it's 90 degrees and getting hotter every day. The smoker cabinet is outside so it will be minimn of 90 degrees starting out.
> I understand a cold smoke gen off site from the cabinet! Thanks for that.
> Can you air condition the smoke cabinet in some way that is safe to 70 degrees? Ice would help but as you said cause issues taste and health wise


I feel the pain about cold smoking in TX.  Just plan on cold smoking Late Nov to early Feb and overnight as well.  

I did Salmon Lox at the end of Feb earlier this year and lucked out that it was a cold day enough day.  I think the high only reached 60F that day and my smoker hit a max of 64F.  I put a whole foil pan of ice cubes in the smoker to help keep it as cool as possible.

It was only a 4 hour cold smoke but that was all the Salmon Lox needed.  It turned out great and now my brother wants to add about 6 pounds on to my next batch... Which can only happen at the end of the year in North Texas :(

But I heard a Sushi chef once say he piped smoke into salmon that was basically on ice in a contraption he made.  I bet if you took a good size cooler, filled half way with ice and then set bacon on racks in the cooler and piped in smoke you could cold smoke that way. You might have to get creative with a little fan to suck air out of one end with the smoke being piped in from the other end.  This way you get the smoke to actually flow and vent.

Have at it :)


----------



## ddrian

TallBM said:


> I feel the pain about cold smoking in TX.  Just plan on cold smoking Late Nov to early Feb and overnight as well.
> 
> I did Salmon Lox at the end of Feb earlier this year and lucked out that it was a cold day enough day.  I think the high only reached 60F that day and my smoker hit a max of 64F.  I put a whole foil pan of ice cubes in the smoker to help keep it as cool as possible.
> 
> It was only a 4 hour cold smoke but that was all the Salmon Lox needed.  It turned out great and now my brother wants to add about 6 pounds on to my next batch... Which can only happen at the end of the year in North Texas :(
> 
> But I heard a Sushi chef once say he piped smoke into salmon that was basically on ice in a contraption he made.  I bet if you took a good size cooler, filled half way with ice and then set bacon on racks in the cooler and piped in smoke you could cold smoke that way. You might have to get creative with a little fan to suck air out of one end with the smoke being piped in from the other end.  This way you get the smoke to actually flow and vent.
> 
> Have at it :)


That was what I was thinking a Fridge or cooler or something to keep it cool for a while. I just hear stuff about the smoke issues with creosote. I wonder how to get around that. Great thinking. It was 90 hear today. I checked the boxes outside . They were right up there on the inside!


----------



## tallbm

ddrian said:


> That was what I was thinking a Fridge or cooler or something to keep it cool for a while. I just hear stuff about the smoke issues with creosote. I wonder how to get around that. Great thinking. It was 90 hear today. I checked the boxes outside . They were right up there on the inside!


My understanding is that the longer the travel of the smoke the less creosote hangs around since the smoke cools down.

One of the members (johnmeyer) found a way to use a Scotch Brite stainless steel scrubber as a filter to catch creosote.  I bet it would work wonders in this situation.  See his thread here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/258297/mailbox-popcorn-mod-with-a-small-twist

I could see the use of a mailbox mod, the AMNPS, and about 4 foot of duct with stainless steel scrubbies as filters rigged up to a cooler to make this happen.  I personally would put a little computer fan or something on the exit smoke vent to suck air and smoke through the cooler so it doesn't just linger all stagnant.

Does this provide any food for thought? :)


----------



## ddrian

TallBM said:


> My understanding is that the longer the travel of the smoke the less creosote hangs around since the smoke cools down.
> One of the members (johnmeyer) found a way to use a Scotch Brite stainless steel scrubber as a filter to catch creosote.  I bet it would work wonders in this situation.  See his thread here:
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/258297/mailbox-popcorn-mod-with-a-small-twist
> 
> I could see the use of a mailbox mod, the AMNPS, and about 4 foot of duct with stainless steel scrubbies as filters rigged up to a cooler to make this happen.  I personally would put a little computer fan or something on the exit smoke vent to suck air and smoke through the cooler so it doesn't just linger all stagnant.
> 
> Does this provide any food for thought? :)


Thx Fantastic info that is on point!
I just returned from a Salmon trip with 300 pounds of fillets that I want to smoke! Lox are a fav with me!!! 

Thanks for the info!


----------



## daveomak

I find the creosote condenses in my MB mod, providing pretty clean smoke to the meat...   Now... that being said, I haven't pulled the duct work to see what's in there...  but I'm sure there's quite a bit...    I should pull it and clean it to see...   If I do ???????   I'll take pics and report back.....  













MB Mob Creosote buildup 001.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Jun 1, 2017


















MB Mob Creosote buildup 002.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Jun 1, 2017


----------



## tallbm

ddrian said:


> Thx Fantastic info that is on point!
> I just returned from a Salmon trip with 300 pounds of fillets that I want to smoke! Lox are a fav with me!!!
> 
> Thanks for the info!


300 pounds?! Heaven!

You totally have a reason to try and figure out a cooler cold smoking chamber then.  That or just freeze and wait 4-5 months.

I did mine with Alder wood and it came out great!  The alder was a little strong at first but mellowed after a 1 day sit in the fridge after smoking.

Let us know what you find out :)


----------



## jackstraw

So can you cold smoke too cold? I had the MES cold smoker attachment hooked to my MES 30 with some flex aluminum duct. It hasn't been above freezing up here in over a week and doesn't look to be warming up anytime soon. The first day I tried smoking this way it was so cold in the box, the smoke just sat in the bottom of the box and in the flex tube (now I know how they make liquid smoke). I removed the duct and hooked it directly to the mes the way it's meant to work and was able to get temps up around 55 f.  Overnight, I'm afraid it'll freeze. I've been pulling the bacon and putting it in a fridge to keep it warm at night, then back in the box when the sun comes out. Come on spring!


----------



## tallbm

jackstraw said:


> So can you cold smoke too cold? I had the MES cold smoker attachment hooked to my MES 30 with some flex aluminum duct. It hasn't been above freezing up here in over a week and doesn't look to be warming up anytime soon. The first day I tried smoking this way it was so cold in the box, the smoke just sat in the bottom of the box and in the flex tube (now I know how they make liquid smoke). I removed the duct and hooked it directly to the mes the way it's meant to work and was able to get temps up around 55 f.  Overnight, I'm afraid it'll freeze. I've been pulling the bacon and putting it in a fridge to keep it warm at night, then back in the box when the sun comes out. Come on spring!



HI there and welcome!

You could always set the MES to a temp of like 50F.  That would keep the bacon from freezing and be well within cold smoking temps.  As for your cold smoker attachment not working well I'm not sure what to say about that.  I use the AMNPS and a Mailbox Mod.  I think the AMNPS would allow the pellets to burn as long as there was oxygen and airflow.
With the heat on 50F and outside temps freezing you might get a good draft going.

I built a cold smoking assist device that creates draft for me when cold smoking.  It is basically a cardboard tube with a compuer blower fan rigged on the side so that the fan blows into and upwards through the cardboard tube.  When I place the tube over the MES vent and plug in the fan it creates a draft/suction that easily pulls air through the MES which in turn helps pull the smoke from the AMNPS and air through my AMNPS and Mailbox mod.
This way I don't get stale lingering smoke, the smoke circulates well, and I have no issues with my pellets burning :)

I hope this gives you some food for thought :)


----------



## indaswamp

tallbm said:


> I may also save a smaller piece of pork belly to experiment with by walking a temp up to 160F.  I've read that when smoking sausage to use a temp of 160-165F max to keep the fat in sausage from rendering.  I'm wondering if the bacon fat would also work at those temps.  Only playing around will let me know but I will only experiment with one piece of the whole batch



Don't know if this has been addressed yet, but sausage is ground meat. The rules are different for ground meat verses whole intact cuts like bacon, pork butt, etc...


----------



## Bearcarver

jackstraw said:


> So can you cold smoke too cold? I had the MES cold smoker attachment hooked to my MES 30 with some flex aluminum duct. It hasn't been above freezing up here in over a week and doesn't look to be warming up anytime soon. The first day I tried smoking this way it was so cold in the box, the smoke just sat in the bottom of the box and in the flex tube (now I know how they make liquid smoke). I removed the duct and hooked it directly to the mes the way it's meant to work and was able to get temps up around 55 f.  Overnight, I'm afraid it'll freeze. I've been pulling the bacon and putting it in a fridge to keep it warm at night, then back in the box when the sun comes out. Come on spring!




Just as a thought, I don't worry about mine freezing because I don't cold smoke.
The lowest you can set an MES is 100°, and I run my Bacon between 100° and 130° for about 11 hours.
This way it won't freeze, it won't render any fat, and it gets the same color & flavor as I have gotten when cold smoking, except in less than half the time.
Here's one:
*Bacon (Extra Smoky)
*

Bear


----------



## tallbm

indaswamp said:


> Don't know if this has been addressed yet, but sausage is ground meat. The rules are different for ground meat verses whole intact cuts like bacon, pork butt, etc...



Yeah that has been addressed in one way or another.  The post you quoted was from last year :)
I've smoked bacon a number of times since then and all questions have been answered :)


----------



## nanuk

I am trying to learn as much as I can on here.
sometimes I read stuff that I need clarification on.

From the Article posted:  Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.

This is contrary to what folks on here (except Pops) usually say....   surface needs to be dry for smoke to "Stick"; damp or wet surfaces hinder smoke penetration.

Can anyone enlighten the subject?


----------



## Bearcarver

nanuk said:


> I am trying to learn as much as I can on here.
> sometimes I read stuff that I need clarification on.
> 
> From the Article posted:  Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.
> 
> This is contrary to what folks on here (except Pops) usually say....   surface needs to be dry for smoke to "Stick"; damp or wet surfaces hinder smoke penetration.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten the subject?



A Pellicle helps get good smoke flavor on Bacon.
I would say Smoking Bacon with a Wet Surface can give you a bitter smoky taste (Not Good).

First of all, we have to know what somebody is calling Hot Smoking.
I personally call 225° and above "Hot Smoking".
And Cold Smoking below 100°.
And I call Warm Smoking between 100° and 130°.

I Personally use Warm smoking (100° to 130°) on my Belly Bacon for about 11 hours. ( I don't worry about the IT of this)

I also use Warm Smoking on CB & BBB, but then after I'm happy with the color, I use Hot Smoking (225°) to finish them out to an IT of 145°.

Bear


----------



## SonnyE

I'm set up now for cold smoking, or more accurately, as close to ambient as I can get.
For example, I've been working on "cold" smoking and holding close to ~ 2-3 degrees above ambient. (By observation)
I force cooled my tube from my Mod, to my smoker, with a fan on low. And (Blessedly) the AMNPS takes care of a steady smoke stream.

Reason is for fish. I have some very thin filet of flounder I wanted to smoke, then finish cooking Sous Vide method.
So far, so good. My flounder emerged smoked and uncooked.
I don't know if it helped or not, but I did put clean filtered water in my water pan and did an overnight smoke, the thought was to hold the humidity better inside my smoker. (Cooler for my latitude) To keep the fish humidified. 

I don't have means for recording my smoker temperatures, but do have my outdoor temperatures recorded with my weather station. And now a TP-08 I can monitor from around the house.

The other day Indaswamp posted a very (to me) interesting video of how one company does their Salmon, and their target is 70-80 degrees in their smoker ovens. So that gave me a target to hit for next time. And I have a temperature controller to help hold that temperature in my MES 30, provided the ambient is low enough.

So, while not Bacon, I am on track to be able to do cold smoking. Much more on track than I have ever been before.
I don't know what temperatures commercial bacon producers smoke at. But most assuredly they have a method.
Here are some USDA guidelines.
I've always felt 'Makin Bacon' was a bit more than I thought I should tackle. I wouldn't be objecting to adding smoke to some already cured bacon though. I'm a dabbler, not someone who desires to go pro.


----------



## nanuk

I was more interested in the "... dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration." issue.

I have read on here and elsewhere that a pellicle is needed for smoke to adhere and/or penetrate.
but the Article seems to contradict that.
As well, I have read that Pops will take his product out of the water and straight into the smoke house. (I can't remember now if he applies smoke immediately or warms to dry a bit)

I am wondering if anyone has done a comparison, using two identical products, one allowed to dry first, the second left wet and smoke applied to see the effects.


----------



## Bearcarver

nanuk said:


> I was more interested in the "... dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration." issue.
> 
> I have read on here and elsewhere that a pellicle is needed for smoke to adhere and/or penetrate.
> but the Article seems to contradict that.
> As well, I have read that Pops will take his product out of the water and straight into the smoke house. (I can't remember now if he applies smoke immediately or warms to dry a bit)
> 
> I am wondering if anyone has done a comparison, using two identical products, one allowed to dry first, the second left wet and smoke applied to see the effects.





nanuk,
I thought I gave my opinion above (post #72) on this, but I'll say again "When making things like Bacon, BBB, CB, Dried Beef, etc, after curing you better get a Pellicle, or at least get it dried real good before putting the smoke on, or you'll be taking a chance on getting some nasty tasting stuff, once the smoke hits the wet surface!"

Bear


----------



## nanuk

Thanks Bear.  That was what I had in my mind also.  So why would it say dry surface inhibits smoke when pretty every where I read DRY surface is better? 

This is why I love forums!  Real world experience!  I don’t need to make all the mistakes, just research what has already proven to work!

Thanks again!


----------



## Bearcarver

nanuk said:


> Thanks Bear.  That was what I had in my mind also.  *So why would it say dry surface inhibits smoke* when pretty every where I read DRY surface is better?
> 
> This is why I love forums!  Real world experience!  I don’t need to make all the mistakes, just research what has already proven to work!
> 
> Thanks again!



Hmmmm,
Maybe they mean the hardened surface from "Hot Smoking" keeps some smoke from penetrating the meat.
If you hot smoke bacon, it can form a tougher skin that can block some of the smoke from penetrating, which doesn't happen when Cold Smoking (below 100°) or when Warm Smoking (100° to 130°).

Bear


----------



## parrot-head

Why do you have to "cold smoke" at or below a certain temperature?  Isn't cold smoking just that...cold smoking?


----------



## SonnyE

parrot-head said:


> Why do you have to "cold smoke" at or below a certain temperature?  Isn't cold smoking just that...cold smoking?



Probably so pellet smoker's don't get confused. :p
Cold smoking has a ceiling where it becomes a warm smoking, and warm smoking has a ceiling were becomes hot smoking.
Some things I like to "cold smoke" are Almonds, Cheeses, and some fish. Also seasonings, SPOG and Cyan pepper.
Imagine what happens to a cube of butter at 120 degrees. :confused: Where at 40-60, it can be smoked and still resemble a cube. ;)
Since I live in a hotter climate, I will typically do my "cold" smoking at night to start off with as low an ambient temperature as possible.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Ed Crain

Ouch


----------



## SonnyE

Ed Crain said:


> Ouch



Ed,
Our Daughter told me I needed a Traeger after my Baby Back fire that, effectively, ruined the ribs for the Grand Daughters 4th birthday party. :oops::(
And believe me, all pellet poopers were in the running for a new smoker. I even called a local store about a GMG, and they had them in stock. The baby one, the Davy Crockett. Take it along in the RV. ;)
All fell away due to temperature constraints. Pellet poopers all have a higher low temperature range.
I needed to be able to cold smoke. And my preference was to use pellets.

I finally decided on a MES, then gutted it after one use, to make it work my way. Mod, AMNPS, and a stack to help it draw right at low temperature smoking. Then I added a way to bypass the controls and make it controllable with an external temperature controller for <100° temperature control.
Smoking salmon at 200° is not my idea of smoking.

When I got my Bradley puck pusher (~15 years ago), my intention was to use it as an add on to my gas barby. Couldn't.
So I grafted it into the side of my nearly unused Brinkman UDS. And it worked ok for a long time as a drum smoker.
But it was a PITA to load and unload.
Then Bradley decided to over price their pucks. Which was more push to look to pellets.

So my transition brought me to a full range smoker. From Ambient up to 275° if I ever need that end. Cold smoking, warm smoking, and hot smoking.
If it is any consolation, I will be reconsidering a pellet pooper when I replace my gas pipe burner. But the nature of the beast is I felt they couldn't satisfy my cold smoking wants.


----------



## Ed Crain

No harm lol yeah I’ve run into this since getting the Yoder I had never cold smoked anything till I got on here and have started doing some but true lowest I can go is 150 gonna do some of bears dried beef by cold smoking then putting it on at 150


----------



## SonnyE

Ed Crain said:


> No harm lol yeah I’ve run into this since getting the Yoder I had never cold smoked anything till I got on here and have started doing some but true lowest I can go is 150 gonna do some of bears dried beef by cold smoking then putting it on at 150



There is always the AMNTS, or AMNPS, inside a cold pellet grill for cold end smoking. ;)
Might consider that accessory.:)


----------



## Ed Crain

Yeah actually that’s what I put into the Yoder the computer fan I’ve got is to try and move the smoke a little bit so it doesn’t stagnate but I haven’t had a problem so don’t know if i need it or not


----------



## SonnyE

Ed Crain said:


> Yeah actually that’s what I put into the Yoder the computer fan I’ve got is to try and move the smoke a little bit so it doesn’t stagnate but I haven’t had a problem so don’t know if i need it or not



Martha sez, "If it works, don't fix it." ;)


----------



## parrot-head

SonnyE said:


> Probably so pellet smoker's don't get confused. :p
> Cold smoking has a ceiling where it becomes a warm smoking, and warm smoking has a ceiling were becomes hot smoking.
> Some things I like to "cold smoke" are Almonds, Cheeses, and some fish. Also seasonings, SPOG and Cyan pepper.
> Imagine what happens to a cube of butter at 120 degrees. :confused: Where at 40-60, it can be smoked and still resemble a cube. ;)
> Since I live in a hotter climate, I will typically do my "cold" smoking at night to start off with as low an ambient temperature as possible.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Right I get that, but why not just cold smoke bacon at whatever the ambient temperature is like when smoking cheese instead of shooting for say 100 degrees ?  I don't understand the point


----------



## Bearcarver

parrot-head said:


> Right I get that, but why not just cold smoke bacon at whatever the ambient temperature is like when smoking cheese instead of shooting for say 100 degrees ?  I don't understand the point




Exactly:
Some people think you have to cold smoke below 100°, some say below 80°, some say below 70°.
In my opinion cold smoking is below 100°, and as long as it's not so low that it will freeze, that's fine in my book.

As for Cheese you just have to keep it low enough that the cheese won't melt.

When it comes to Belly Bacon, I keep my Smoker between 100° and 130°, and I can get the same color & flavor as I can get with cold smoking, except I can get it in less than half the time using the 100° to 130° temps.

When I smoke CB & BBB, i use those same Temps to get it good & smoky, then I jack up the heat to finish them at above 145° Internal Temp, so I can eat it cold or just heat it a little before eating, and not have to worry about getting it to 145° before eating it, because it was already smoked to 145°

So try all ways, but you're right in my opinion---Don't worry about what cold temps you're using except don't melt your cheese.

BTW: Here's how I do my Bacon (With Temps):
*Bacon (Extra Smoky)

*
Hope this helps,
Bear


----------



## pushok2018

Always cold smoked by bacon before - under 90F. Last weekend tried to hot smoke it increasing temp by 15 degress until IM temperature reached 147. Absolutely delicious - slice thin and eat it as a cold cut....


----------



## tallbm

pushok2018 said:


> Always cold smoked by bacon before - under 90F. Last weekend tried to hot smoke it increasing temp by 15 degress until IM temperature reached 147. Absolutely delicious - slice thin and eat it as a cold cut....



I take mine to 145F IT so I can eat as well.  I eat 95% of the bacon I make that way rather than frying it hahahaha!


----------



## lav25

Wow, should have read this thread a long time ago. I just did a 5lb or so block that had been ziplock "dry cured" for a week and change with cold smoke (ambient air temp 48F, a block of sawdust made for smoking in the bottom of the MES 30) for only about three hours, which is how I've done it in the past and had no complaints, now I've got another 5lbs in for my first hot smoke (175f, aiming for an internal temp of 150f before I pull it). I've never done anything that would run days, the smoke wood blocks I use run for 2-3 hours, which would mean getting up every three hours to light a new one and put it in. I've heard very good things about the AMNPS, but I live in Japan, and the shipping on the fuel is prohibitive ($16 in shipping for two pounds of pellets), so that's not really an option for me. 

Maybe next time when I have more days off.


----------



## rexster314

Do you have some type of store like Home Depot or Lowe's? That's where I get my pellets.


----------



## lav25

rexster314 said:


> Do you have some type of store like Home Depot or Lowe's? That's where I get my pellets.


Nope, but we do have "Smoke Wood" blocks of compressed sawdust for smokers.






Works fine, it's just the time issue, 2-3 hours per block.


----------



## tallbm

lav25 said:


> Nope, but we do have "Smoke Wood" blocks of compressed sawdust for smokers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Works fine, it's just the time issue, 2-3 hours per block.


Hi there and welcome!

I think you are in luck buddy.  With wood pellets you can pour some water on them and they swell up and when they dry they break apart into dust at the touch.
I bet the same thing would work with those blocks.
The A-Maze-N Pellet Smoker (AMNPS) tray works both pellets AND dust :D

I think you can easily turn those blocks into dust and burn away for 10+ hours using the AMNPS tray!
Feel free to experiment with one of those blocks and report back if you do.  Best of luck!


----------



## lav25

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> I think you are in luck buddy.  With wood pellets you can pour some water on them and they swell up and when they dry they break apart into dust at the touch.
> I bet the same thing would work with those blocks.
> The A-Maze-N Pellet Smoker (AMNPS) tray works both pellets AND dust :D
> 
> I think you can easily turn those blocks into dust and burn away for 10+ hours using the AMNPS tray!
> Feel free to experiment with one of those blocks and report back if you do.  Best of luck!


I never thought of that. They crumble by hand, one of the problems is actually getting them out of the shrink wrap intact. I'll have to give that a shot.  Not sure which generation my MES 30 is, but there aren't any support bars in the bottom. I can probably just provide some lift with balled up aluminum foil, one of my favorite cooking tools :)

Hmm, can't seem to upload an image. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a shot!


----------



## Bearcarver

lav25 said:


> I never thought of that. They crumble by hand, one of the problems is actually getting them out of the shrink wrap intact. I'll have to give that a shot.  Not sure which generation my MES 30 is, but there aren't any support bars in the bottom. I can probably just provide some lift with balled up aluminum foil, one of my favorite cooking tools :)
> 
> Hmm, can't seem to upload an image. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a shot!




That MES Pic you Attached has the interior of the Generation #2.5.
The best place in that one I've found to put the AMNPS is on the right end of the bottom rack, just above the chip dumper.
Then you can pull the chip dumper out about 2" & rotate it 180° to allow more air flow to the AMNPS, then push it back in if it starts smoking too heavily.

Bear


----------



## tallbm

lav25 said:


> I never thought of that. They crumble by hand, one of the problems is actually getting them out of the shrink wrap intact. I'll have to give that a shot.  Not sure which generation my MES 30 is, but there aren't any support bars in the bottom. I can probably just provide some lift with balled up aluminum foil, one of my favorite cooking tools :)
> 
> Hmm, can't seem to upload an image. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a shot!


I've worked with a few guys on here that have MES30's and did rewiring jobs or need some form of help and the common theme with the MES30 is that it seems finicky with the AMNPS tray inside where the MES40 seems to have much greater success with the AMNPS try inside.

THe MES 30 guys either use the AMNPS Tube (3 hour burn time) or they build a mailbox mod and use the AMNPS tray and all is right with the world.  Feel free to try the tray in your MES30 but be prepared to build a mailbox mod if it doesn't work out that way :)


----------



## lav25

Bearcarver said:


> That MES Pic you Attached has the interior of the Generation #2.5.
> The best place in that one I've found to put the AMNPS is on the right end of the bottom rack, just above the chip dumper.
> Then you can pull the chip dumper out about 2" & rotate it 180° to allow more air flow to the AMNPS, then push it back in if it starts smoking too heavily.
> 
> Bear



Thanks Bear, good to know. I've been searching images and threads to try and sort things out, but having direct knowledgeable advice is best of all.



tallbm said:


> I've worked with a few guys on here that have MES30's and did rewiring jobs or need some form of help and the common theme with the MES30 is that *it seems finicky* with the AMNPS tray inside where the MES40 seems to have much greater success with the AMNPS try inside.
> 
> THe MES 30 guys either use the AMNPS Tube (3 hour burn time) or they build a mailbox mod and use the AMNPS tray and all is right with the world.  Feel free to try the tray in your MES30 but be prepared to build a mailbox mod if it doesn't work out that way :)



Could you explain what you mean by "finicky" in this case? Difficulty maintaining smoke, or temperature control, or...? I'd like to get as much info as I can before I go in. I actually did buy myself a 6" tube the last time I was back in the States to test whether I could use it with the chips that are sold here in Japan, but I had trouble keeping them lit. Pellets aren't an option for me due to the high international shipping costs, will the tube work with dust? Should probably just test it for myself.

I should probaby add that the reason I'm so focused on smoke generators rather than simply using the installed unit it that, I suspect due to voltage issues, the built-in chip tray doesn't really generate smoke. Japan uses 100v wall current, not 120, but after some research I decided to take the plunge and buy the MES 30 anyway. I've got the digital unit, and it does power up, and make and maintain temperature (the temperature readout on the smoker matches the temperature indicated by my Maverick's probes to within a reasonable margin of error). However, it doesn't really get the chips going, they simply get toasted to a nice golden brown. My buddy in the states got a _nearly_ identical MES-30, and when we were sorting that out, I noticed that it a) got to initial temperature much quicker than mine, which takes a while to preheat, and b) when I put unsoaked chips in the tray, they caught fire. Flames, billowing white smoke, poof, gone. That was an interesting day. I'm guessing that my coil doesn't get up to full strength due to the voltage difference, but the cost of a power converter here is more than I'm willing to spend right now, I'd rather fiddle with adaptations.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for your help. Little pic of the my first hot-smoked bacon from last week:


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## Bearcarver

lav25 said:


> Thanks Bear, good to know. I've been searching images and threads to try and sort things out, but having direct knowledgeable advice is best of all.






> When it comes to MES units, just go to any one of my posts & click on "Bear's Step by Steps" at the bottom.
> There are all kinds of MES Tips & a lot of How-tos, mostly on using your MES.
> 
> As for the Tube---It's not supposed to work with Dust.
> 
> As for the AMNPS, They aren't good at High Altitudes, but at Low Altitude, I've been using mine inside my MES units for 8 years, without a Mailbox, but as a last resort, you should be prepared to use one, just in case, like "tallbm" said.
> I've used my AMNPS inside my MES30 Gen #1, my MES40 Gen #1, and my MES 40 Gen #2.5, without any problem, but I'm only at about 300' ASL.
> 
> Bear


[/QUOTE]


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## tallbm

lav25 said:


> Thanks Bear, good to know. I've been searching images and threads to try and sort things out, but having direct knowledgeable advice is best of all.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you explain what you mean by "finicky" in this case? Difficulty maintaining smoke, or temperature control, or...? I'd like to get as much info as I can before I go in. I actually did buy myself a 6" tube the last time I was back in the States to test whether I could use it with the chips that are sold here in Japan, but I had trouble keeping them lit. Pellets aren't an option for me due to the high international shipping costs, will the tube work with dust? Should probably just test it for myself.
> 
> I should probaby add that the reason I'm so focused on smoke generators rather than simply using the installed unit it that, I suspect due to voltage issues, the built-in chip tray doesn't really generate smoke. Japan uses 100v wall current, not 120, but after some research I decided to take the plunge and buy the MES 30 anyway. I've got the digital unit, and it does power up, and make and maintain temperature (the temperature readout on the smoker matches the temperature indicated by my Maverick's probes to within a reasonable margin of error). However, it doesn't really get the chips going, they simply get toasted to a nice golden brown. My buddy in the states got a _nearly_ identical MES-30, and when we were sorting that out, I noticed that it a) got to initial temperature much quicker than mine, which takes a while to preheat, and b) when I put unsoaked chips in the tray, they caught fire. Flames, billowing white smoke, poof, gone. That was an interesting day. I'm guessing that my coil doesn't get up to full strength due to the voltage difference, but the cost of a power converter here is more than I'm willing to spend right now, I'd rather fiddle with adaptations.
> 
> Anyway, thanks to everyone for your help. Little pic of the my first hot-smoked bacon from last week:



The AMNPS tray with the MES30 was finicky in ability to stay lit.  The guys I helped out seemed to have issues but I cannot personally attest to having tried it in an MES30 because I've only ever had MES40's.

Bear should have you straightened out on where to put the AMNPS in your MES30 and also I have heard what he mentions that the tube burner is not suppose to work with dust.
Finally, he has the right idea.  Give the tray a shot inside the MES but be fully prepared to build a mailbox mod should the AMNPS tray not work well in your MES30 situation.

Like with any setup you just gotta play with it, tweak, and get it to a point where you can rely on it and repeat the behavior.  I think you can really rock and roll by breaking down those wood bricks and using the AMNPS tray.  You just have to play around and see if you end up needing a mailbox mod or not.  Once you have it figured out get ready to be in BBQ heaven!!! :)


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## lav25

My apologies for the thread derailment, to get back to the original topic, my newb 2 cents is that I did my first ever hot smoke of bacon and I don't really plan on going back to cold. I found that it got more smoke flavor in in the same amount of time, the bacon is easier to slice (I just have a kitchen knife), and the fat rendered out much better when cooking, leading to the sort of crispy bacon I expect from store-bought. Cold-smoked bacon tends to be a little chewy, at least when I've messed with it.


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## Bearcarver

lav25 said:


> My apologies for the thread derailment, to get back to the original topic, my newb 2 cents is that I did my first ever hot smoke of bacon and I don't really plan on going back to cold. I found that it got more smoke flavor in in the same amount of time, the bacon is easier to slice (I just have a kitchen knife), and the fat rendered out much better when cooking, leading to the sort of crispy bacon I expect from store-bought. Cold-smoked bacon tends to be a little chewy, at least when I've messed with it.




I never tried "Hot Smoked" Bacon, but what you say about it is also true about the Bacon I make, and I Smoke mine at Smoker Temps between 100° and 130°. Gets Great color & Flavor in less time, yet doesn't render any fat during smoking.

Bear


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## River Bend

Can anyone give me the storage life of warm/cold smoked cured bacon and hams in the freezer? Im looking at doing a whole pig into sausage/hams and was wondering how long I can store the meat after smoking the  Bacon and hams. Do you think you can get more freezer life from green meat or smoked/cured meat. I have searched the net and find anywhere from 2-3 weeks to 5-6 months and would just love some expert advise. Thanks


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## Joe Sargent

yankee2cajn said:


> O.K.  I have 3 slabs of bacon, with 3 varities of dry cures.  I am almost ready to smoke and I am reading a lot of different options on smoking times and temperatures.  Any advice on which methood is preferred for bacon?
> Thanks,
> Greg


Cold smoke


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## Bearcarver

River Bend said:


> Can anyone give me the storage life of warm/cold smoked cured bacon and hams in the freezer? Im looking at doing a whole pig into sausage/hams and was wondering how long I can store the meat after smoking the  Bacon and hams. Do you think you can get more freezer life from green meat or smoked/cured meat. I have searched the net and find anywhere from 2-3 weeks to 5-6 months and would just love some expert advise. Thanks



I'm not an expert, but after 9 years of Vac Packing & freezing:
Raw or smoked, I haven't run into anything that won't last at least 2 years in my -0° Freezer if properly vacuum packed.

Bear


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## River Bend

Bearcarver said:


> I'm not an expert, but after 9 years of Vac Packing & freezing:
> Raw or smoked, I haven't run into anything that won't last at least 2 years in my -0° Freezer if properly vacuum packed.
> 
> Bear


Thanks for your info bear, I have never had any problems with store bought meat going bad in a good vac sealed bag but I wasn't sure about home smoked and cured meats. I have never cured/smoked meat for the freezer before its always been smoke and eat lol.


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## Bearcarver

River Bend said:


> Thanks for your info bear, I have never had any problems with store bought meat going bad in a good vac sealed bag but I wasn't sure about home smoked and cured meats. I have never cured/smoked meat for the freezer before its always been smoke and eat lol.




About the only cooked things I freeze for long periods (in my basement chest freezer) are the things I make a lot of at one time, such as Bacon, Canadian Bacon, Buckboard Bacon, and Dried Beef, and I've had some of that frozen as long as 2 to 3 years, without a problem.
Everything else gets eaten within a few days, and maybe some leftover frozen in our kitchen freezer for a few weeks to a couple months.

Bear


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## JBPilot

Almost anything can be kept for a whole lot longer than you think as long as it has been properly vacuum sealed and kept frozen.  If you’re in a part of the country that occasionally has power outages (I was growing up) you can take a quart ziplock bag and fill it full of water and freeze it on it’s side so it’s flat.  After that put it into your freezer standing upright.  That way if you ever lose power you’ll know if your freezer thawed out or not.  

I’ve opened and ate meat that was 4+ years old that was properly vacuum sealed and it tasted just as good as meat fresh from the field.


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## megownm

A lot of good info in here!

Thanx!


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## HowlingDog

I guess I am one of the few who smoke my bacon a bit warmer than a "warm smoke" but not as hot as a "hot smoke - 220+"     I try to run about 160-170 ish and get to an IT of about 165 ish.   I do use cure #1 but the folks that I share with like the extra temperature.   I usually go for about 4 hours using an A Maze N tube in my wood smoker (using charcoal and some wood chunks as well).   I may have to bump the temp up a bit at the end but I get good flavor and color. The longest I have smoked is about 5.5 hours at 160-170.  There is a little fat rendering but nothing too bad (but I have been known to trim a bit if it is too much so).    Everyone loves it!!


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## Bearcarver

HowlingDog said:


> I guess I am one of the few who smoke my bacon a bit warmer than a "warm smoke" but not as hot as a "hot smoke - 220+"     I try to run about 160-170 ish and get to an IT of about 165 ish.   I do use cure #1 but the folks that I share with like the extra temperature.   I usually go for about 4 hours using an A Maze N tube in my wood smoker (using charcoal and some wood chunks as well).   I may have to bump the temp up a bit at the end but I get good flavor and color. The longest I have smoked is about 5.5 hours at 160-170.  There is a little fat rendering but nothing too bad (but I have been known to trim a bit if it is too much so).  *  Everyone loves it!!*
> 
> View attachment 491523




<<<Everyone Loves It!!>>>
That's What Really Matters !!

Bear


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