# How do you get fat to caramelize when smoking?



## mrmarblz (Apr 10, 2017)

Hey fellow smokers, I am trying to figure out how to get my fat on meat to caramelize when I'm smoking.  I read this article from AmazingRibs here, but I am still having trouble.  I like using rubs without any sauces.  It is just my personal taste preference, but I feel like sauce hides the taste of the meat too much.  Anyways, in my rubs I use brown sugar and that is not doing the trick.  I try to keep the smoker at a temperature between 225-250 degrees.  My goal here is to have the fat on the meat just melt away as your eating it, but it's always chewy to the point where I just cut it off.  I know eating the fat isn't healthy.  But even if I don't eat it, it still gives the meat a lot more flavor when it caramelizes.

What am I doing wrong?  I can't get it to happen with either pork or beef.  Any tips would be greatly appreciated.


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## SmokinAl (Apr 10, 2017)

How thick is the fat you are leaving on the meat?

Most trim butts & brisket down to 1/4" which will render nicely and give good bark on a long smoke.

Al


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## browneyesvictim (Apr 10, 2017)

Sugars will caramelize,  fats will render, and collagen in connective tissue will break down at different rates and at different temps. Sugars will typically caramelize and can burn long before fat will render, particularly at higher temps. So that is the trick really... It truly is a balancing act. You can cook longer to render the fat and connective tissue. This will make it more tender (less chewy) and then for more char, try turning up the heat only at the very last (grill or broiler). If there is a lot of sugar in your rub, or use BBQ sauce (which typically have a lot of sugars in it!) they will tend to caramelize and burn before the proteins have a chance to achieve the maillard reaction (browning). Therefore, as you stated, it is best to either back off the sugars until the very end (or leave off completely) , but longer cook times is what sounds like I would suggest you try.


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## mrmarblz (Apr 10, 2017)

Yesterday, the thickest location was about 1/2" of fat on the pastrami (smoked brined brisket).  I also smoked St. Louis style pork ribs, which didn't have much fat but yet didn't caramelize.  I smoked these for 6.5 hours with a water reservoir in the smoker to keep moisture, and the pork ribs never got to the "fall off the bone" state.  They both had brown sugar in the rubs.  Turned out _pretty_  good, but still... I want that fat to melt.

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong.  See below pictures from yesterday.













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__ mrmarblz
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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

Straight up fat won't caramelize, as there is no sugar in it, unless it's been artificially added.  If rubbed/sauced/injected/etc., with sugars, then you may get that effect,  but it doesn't come from the untainted fat.


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## mrmarblz (Apr 10, 2017)

Yes, I understand that.  But I guess the brown sugar I have been using in my rub wont do the trick?  Should I add white sugar to get this desired effect?  If so, would I get better results if I applied it before the rub or just mix white sugar into the rub?


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## crankybuzzard (Apr 10, 2017)

MrMarblz said:


> Yes, I understand that.  But I guess the brown sugar I have been using in my rub wont do the trick?  Should I add white sugar to get this desired effect?  If so, would I get better results if I applied it before the rub or just mix white sugar into the rub?


Brown sugar begins to melt around 320 and starts to caramelize somewhere around 350 if I remember correctly.


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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

CrankyBuzzard said:


> Brown sugar begins to melt around 320 and starts to caramelize somewhere around 350 if I remember correctly.



You do, CB--320 to melt and about 340-350 to caramelize. 

I've steered clear of plain refined white sugar, and use turbinado/raw sugar instead.  For me,  it seems to burn much more readily than unrefined.  Not exactly sure what the molasses in brown sugar does,  but it doesn't seem to burn nearly as quickly either,imho.


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## mrmarblz (Apr 10, 2017)

Sounds about the same for white sugar, right?  So if those caramelize at such high temps how do BBQ'ers get the fat to break down since it's "low & slow"?

I'm trying to get educated and find the solution here to break down the fat.  Maybe I need to inject the meat?


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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

MrMarblz said:


> Sounds about the same for white sugar, right?  So if those caramelize at such high temps how do BBQ'ers get the fat to break down since it's "low & slow"?
> 
> I'm trying to get educated and find the solution here to break down the fat.  Maybe I need to inject the meat?



I think you're confusing rendering with caramelizing.  Rendering fat is about 130-140 degrees. Caramelizing sugar is 100 degrees higher.   What you're cooking has a high fat content anyway--one of the reasons ribs,  briskets,  butts, etc., are low and slow is to render out some of this fat.  Perhaps try further trimming before cooking to help lessen it if that's your objective.   Otherwise,  you may want to consider leaner cuts.  BTW, I'm not an advocate of injecting--causes cook times to go up.

EDIT:  should read "Caramelizing sugar is *200* degrees higher."


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## mrmarblz (Apr 10, 2017)

gr0uch0 said:


> I think you're confusing rendering with caramelizing. Rendering fat is about 130-140 degrees. Caramelizing sugar is 100 degrees higher. What you're cooking has a high fat content anyway--one of the reasons ribs, briskets, butts, etc., are low and slow is to render out some of this fat. Perhaps try further trimming before cooking to help lessen it if that's your objective. Otherwise, you may want to consider leaner cuts. BTW, I'm not an advocate of injecting--causes cook times to go up.


Now I am totally confused.  I just did a quick search for rendering fat and sources say that takes place at like 300 degrees.  But you say 130-140 degrees.  I think I am missing more information.

Then how long would I need to smoke at whichever fat rendering temp?  If so, should I do it at the start or finish?


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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

MrMarblz said:


> Now I am totally confused.  I just did a quick search for rendering fat and sources say that takes place at like 300 degrees.  But you say 130-140 degrees.  I think I am missing more information.
> 
> Then how long would I need to smoke at whichever fat rendering temp?  If so, should I do it at the start or finish?


Fat is 130-140.  Collagen begins to break down at about 160, and should be largely done around 180.  That's why most folks pull their briskets in the 195-205 range:  at 300+ just to melt the fat, there's no way they could go as long as they do.

Back to sugars:  I edited my above post to read that caramelizing sugar is around 340 (thanks CB!) instead of the original 240 I'd referenced.


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## mrmarblz (Apr 10, 2017)

gr0uch0 said:


> Fat is 130-140.  Collagen begins to break down at about 160, and should be largely done around 180.  That's why most folks pull their briskets in the 195-205 range:  at 300+ just to melt the fat, there's no way they could go as long as they do.


To be clear, are we talking about meat temperatures or smoking/cooking/air temperatures?


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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

MrMarblz said:


> To be clear, are we talking about meat temperatures or smoking/cooking/air temperatures?


Meat temp.  Meat will begin to render its fat between 130 and 140 degrees.  Collagen begins to break down at about 160, and is largely finished breaking down at 180 degrees.


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## mrmarblz (Apr 10, 2017)

gr0uch0 said:


> Meat temp.  Meat will begin to render its fat between 130 and 140 degrees.  Collagen begins to break down at about 160, and is largely finished breaking down at 180 degrees.


Ok, now it's starting to make more sense.

Does fat render more when it's face down or up?  I know the question of "fat face down or up, which is better?" is largely a matter of opinion but I'm specifically talking about rendering fat.  I can only assume it'd be better if it were facing down for more direct heat.


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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

MrMarblz said:


> Ok, now it's starting to make more sense.
> 
> Does fat render more when it's face down or up?  I know the question of "fat face down or up, which is better?" is largely a matter of opinion but I'm specifically talking about rendering fat.  I can only assume it'd be better if it were facing down for more direct heat.



I go fat up as I think it keeps the meat moister.   Others are the opposite :  in either case,  rendering should be the same with indirect heat.


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## wild west (Apr 10, 2017)

gr0uch0 said:


> Meat temp.  Meat will begin to render its fat between 130 and 140 degrees.  Collagen begins to break down at about 160, and is largely finished breaking down at 180 degrees.


I smoke sausage to to IT of up to 160 with zero fat rendering


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## Bearcarver (Apr 10, 2017)

If you want to see when Fat Caramelizes, just lean that Belly up tight against a Super-Hot Smoker for awhile!!!

SSSSSSSSSsssss..........
	

	
	
		
		



		
			










Bear


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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

wild west said:


> I smoke sausage to to IT of up to 160 with zero fat rendering



Good for you.


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## gr0uch0 (Apr 10, 2017)

Bearcarver said:


> If you want to see when Fat Caramelizes, just lean that Belly up tight against a Super-Hot Smoker for awhile!!!
> 
> SSSSSSSSSsssss..........:eek: :eek:
> 
> ...



Voice of experience speaking,  Bear?  If not you, I have been there!


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## amlong88 (Apr 10, 2017)

What pit temps are you smoking at? Are you using an accurate thermometer to check pit temps? Sounds like you're cooking at low temp. 6.5 hours for spares at 230-240 pit temp should render out the fat and make the meat pull off the bone if not fall off the bone. You might just need to cook a little longer.


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## mowin (Apr 11, 2017)

You ribs look a little under cooked. I don't see any bone showing. Usually there will be a good 1/2” or more showing.

As mentioned, how are you monitoring your pit temp? Stock therm can be way off, and your pit temp might not be as hot as you think, making the meat not quite done.

I noticed if my brisket isn't quite there, the fat will be chewy. And I'm like you, I love the melt in your mouth fat from a low and slow cook.  

Grab a maverick 732 or igrill2 with ambient probes and meat probes. Best way the know for sure what your pit temps are.


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