# Can't get TBS while cold smoking with MES 30" and AMNPS



## setesh

I have a 30" analog MES with the mailbox mod and a AMNPS.  I get wonderful thin blue smoke for hot smokes and the meat turns out absolutely amazing.  I'm still dumbfounded by the results I'm getting.  I mean, I'm a complete smoking noob but I am turning out meat better than anything I've had at a BBQ restaurant on this setup and it's all thanks to this forum and Todd's AMNPS!  Besides that I'm having an absolute blast doing it. Thank you all for the help!  Here is the smoker I'm using:













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__ setesh
__ Mar 3, 2016






OK, now for my problem.  I have tried three nights in a row to get thin blue smoke while cold smoking and all I can get is white smoke.  I have tried everything I can think of.  I added a fan to the mailbox and that just creates thicker white smoke.  In fact the smoke gets thicker the faster the fan speed is turned up.  I tried covering the ventilation holes on the mailbox one by one and that just made nasty choking smoke that burned my eyes and lungs.  What am I doing wrong?  I don't understand why the same setup makes TBS at 225f and white smoke at 60f.  Here is what the cold smoke looks like coming from the chimney:













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__ setesh
__ Mar 3, 2016






And this is what I see when I open the door:













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__ setesh
__ Mar 3, 2016






I stuck some cheese in for an hour just to see what would happen and it tastes absolutely horrible!  It's like licking an ash tray!  From what I have read this is probably normal, so I have it vacuum sealed in the fridge and will try it every week to see how it changes.  From what I have read it is normal for it to taste really bad right after smoking, but if there is one thing I have learned from brewing it is to try your products at every stage so you can develop a feeling for what is normal.  It may not taste good at any given stage, but at least you can know what it 'should' taste like at that stage.

So, what am I doing wrong?  Why can't I get TBS while cold smoking?  I apologize if this is a stupid question, I scoured the forum for a few hours and couldn't find any info on what I am doing wrong.


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## cmayna

Setesh,

Welcome to SMF.  Typically when doing cheese, I never taste it for an easy 3-4 weeks plus.   You need to give the cheese time to mellow out. Once smoked, I usually let it rest in the fridge for a day or two then vacuum seal.

Are you using Todd's pellets?   If you are generating too much smoke, you might want to consider getting some of his dust which is used a lot for cold smoking.


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## SmokinAl

What Craig said!

The longer the cheese sits the better it gets, I have some cheese that's 1 year old & it tastes phenomenal.

Did you light just one end of the AMNPS?

You can also fill the rows up just half way to the top so you don't have as many pellets smoking at the same time.

And as Craig said, you may want to try dust for cold smoking, that's what I use.

Hope this helps.

Al


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## chef jimmyj

You probably need to get some Draft going with all that Plumbing. Try a Blow dryer or a Heating Pad wrapped at the base of the chimney for awhile. Get the chimney warm and the rising heat will suck fresh air in to the mailbox and get things flowing through and out...JJ


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## daveomak

When cold smoking, the smoker needs to be above ambient temperature so a draft will happen and condensate will not form....  The chimney you have, will cool the draft in below ambient temps...  I would remove the chimney, preheat the smoker and see what happens...   The draft should increase and help your situation...  

When warm, hot smoking, the draft is increased significantly and the stack may not be cooling the exhaust..

In my mailbox, I have an upper air inlet to add additional air above the pellets....   you might try that also...













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__ daveomak
__ Mar 4, 2016


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## BandCollector

Setesh,

When I first got my MES I experienced the same issues you are experiencing.  Once I removed the smoke stack my issues went away.  Try removing the smoke stack and follow some of Dave's, Al's, and Chef JJ's suggestions. 

Your mailbox setup seems fine and cheese is not meant to be eaten immediately after smoking...It needs to rest refrigerated for at least a month.

Good luck,

John


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## setesh

cmayna said:


> Setesh,
> 
> Welcome to SMF.  Typically when doing cheese, I never taste it for an easy 3-4 weeks plus.   You need to give the cheese time to mellow out. Once smoked, I usually let it rest in the fridge for a day or two then vacuum seal.
> 
> Are you using Todd's pellets?   If you are generating too much smoke, you might want to consider getting some of his dust which is used a lot for cold smoking.


I read that it takes a while to mellow, but WOW, I wouldn't have thought that COULD mellow.  I might as well have sucked on a used charcoal briquette!  I completely skipped the letting it age for a couple of days before vacuum packaging it. I assume that lets some of the harsher stuff flash off?  How do you keep it from drying out in the fridge?

I am using Todd's apple pellets, and they work great for TBS during hot smokes.  I thought about trying dust, I even saw people using techniques to turn pellets into dust.  I'll give that a try and see what happens.


SmokinAl said:


> ...Did you light just one end of the AMNPS?
> 
> You can also fill the rows up just half way to the top so you don't have as many pellets smoking at the same time...


I only lit one end of the AMNPS, but that thing puts out some serious smoke even so.  I have been filling it all the way to the top, so filling it halfway is a great idea, I'll try that before I try anything else.


Chef JimmyJ said:


> You probably need to get some Draft going with all that Plumbing. Try a Blow dryer or a Heating Pad wrapped at the base of the chimney for awhile. Get the chimney warm and the rising heat will suck fresh air in to the mailbox and get things flowing through and out...JJ


I used a computer fan and a cowl made out of tin foil to develop a good draft and it continued when the fan was removed, but it still only gave me white smoke.  I even tried leaving the fan in place, it just made even more white smoke!


DaveOmak said:


> When cold smoking, the smoker needs to be above ambient temperature so a draft will happen and condensate will not form....  The chimney you have, will cool the draft in below ambient temps...  I would remove the chimney, preheat the smoker and see what happens...   The draft should increase and help your situation...
> 
> When warm, hot smoking, the draft is increased significantly and the stack may not be cooling the exhaust..
> 
> In my mailbox, I have an upper air inlet to add additional air above the pellets....   you might try that also...
> 
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> MB MOD 001.JPG
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> __ daveomak
> __ Mar 4, 2016


How do you keep your smoker above ambient but not hot enough to melt cheese?  Maybe use a light bulb or a heating pad in the bottom?

I will try removing the chimney and see if that helps it flow better.  It makes sense that even though smoke is coming out of it, the fact that it is cooling in the chimney is slowing down the system.  I think I will cut/crimp that stack into sections a few inches long, that way I can add/remove pieces to tailor it's length to the conditions of the day.

Your mailbox mod is the one I used as a reference, and I have holes the same size in the same places (except for the one you have covered in the photo).  I even messed around with the vertical location of the AMNPS within the mailbox.  I made a stand out of coat hanger that raises the AMNPS into the middle of the mailbox.  It definitely made it happier for hot smoking, I assume because it got more airflow from the bottom.  But for cold smoking it didn't seem to matter, I got white smoke either way.  


BandCollector said:


> Setesh,
> 
> When I first got my MES I experienced the same issues you are experiencing.  Once I removed the smoke stack my issues went away.  Try removing the smoke stack and follow some of Dave's, Al's, and Chef JJ's suggestions...


When you say your issues went away, do you mean your drafting issues, or getting white smoke?  I found a thread on another forum last night that said you don't get blue smoke when cold smoking, that it is always white smoke.  Is that true?  If that is the case then I may be worrying about the color of the smoke for no reason.  I still need to fix my drafting problems because I know I'm getting stale smoke right now when doing cold smokes, but if the smoke is supposed to be white and not blue for cold smokes that would explain a lot.

Thanks everyone!


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## Bearcarver

Setesh,

I never worry about blue or white, as long as it's not a heavy smoke.

Sounds & looks like your smoke is too heavy.

Like Al & Craig said above, I would try some Dust, and if the smoke is still heavy, don't fill it as high.

With that big chimney you have, you're probably getting a real good draw of air flow, which is making it burn better than most, so with that long chimney, you should not fill your AMNPS up so high. You have to give it less to burn to control it.

Remember---A light smoke for many hours is a good thing, but a heavy smoke for even a short time can be bad.

Bear


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## chef jimmyj

There is a big difference between Forcing air in and getting a Draft. The fan just forced more smoke in. A good Draft will move the smoke out and the system will settle down and smoke as designed...I am suggesting heating the Exhaust Pipe to get a draft rather than heating the whole smoker...Your Choice...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...JJ


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## cmayna

When I use my chimney when doing cheese or lox, I will open the smoker and stick my torch up into the bottom of the chimney and fire it up for a second or two, quickly close the smoker's door.  This causes the heat I just created to rise up the chimney and pulling everything behind it.

Dave, I like your idea of having a hole in the upper position of  mail box.


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## mfreel

Just to add my two cents, remove the chimney and replace it with a 3" elbow.  That seems to help my draw.  Also, why are you using the mailbox mod?  Why not just put the AMNPS inside the smoker?  

I vacuum seal cheese pretty much after I cold smoke it for 3 hours.  I let it sit for as long as I can but for a MINIMUM of two weeks.


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## mr t 59874

You are getting good advice from all of the above. However, I will throw my 2¢ in. Look at adding smoke to any product as if you were filling a glass with water, once it’s full it’s full, by adding more will only make a mess. Don’t you find it strange that some can enjoy cheese directly out of the smoker while others have to let it age for an extended time before consuming? The last aged cheddar I smoked was smoked for 20 straight hours and was delicious right out of the smoker. Bitter or acrid tasting cheese is a sure sign of over smoking.

After looking at your smoker there may be some changes made that could help you. First, your smoke generator does not know if you are hot or cold smoking, although it will work differently between the two because the amount of draft will be different between them. A hot smoke creates more draft than a cold smoke. Also, heat rises, the generator doesn’t care what the ambient temperature is as long as the heat created in the firebox has a path to follow through your food box.  I cold smoke below ambient all the time because my smokers are all in the shade; therefore they are always cooler than ambient. Of course, most times, applying heat from a torch is required in the firebox to get the draft started. Once the draft is started, any type of smoke generator can be used.

Now for your setup. The purpose of my remote firebox (a cast iron stove) is to cool and clean the smoke before it enters the food chamber/box. To help you do the same, I suggest you replace the flex hose with two or three sections of single wall stovepipe. This will help in cooling the smoke and help in collecting impurities through condensation. Either raise the food box or lower the firebox so there is a gentle and straight incline between the two. This will allow the condensation and impurities collected in the pipe to flow back toward the firebox.

As for your smoke, it is important to remember, the denser the smoke, the less forgiving it is. There will be times when a thick heavy smoke is desired for a short period, and then there are times when a very pale thin smoke is desired for long periods. The type of fuel being used can most generally control the difference. 

As you are using a tray type smoke generator and wanting to smoke cheese, try pulverizing pellets into a talc type powder by using a food blender. This will produce a very thin and light smoke that by cooling and cleaning on its way to the food box will produce what you are looking for.

OK, maybe it was a nickel’s worth.

Have fun and enjoy your cheese.

T


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## setesh

mfreel said:


> ....Also, why are you using the mailbox mod?  Why not just put the AMNPS inside the smoker?  ....


I am trying to cool the smoke and keep the creosote out of the cooker.


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## setesh

Mr T 59874 said:


> ...Don’t you find it strange that some can enjoy cheese directly out of the smoker while others have to let it age for an extended time before consuming? The last aged cheddar I smoked was smoked for 20 straight hours and was delicious right out of the smoker. Bitter or acrid tasting cheese is a sure sign of over smoking.





Mr T 59874 said:


> ...Once the draft is started, any type of smoke generator can be used.





Mr T 59874 said:


> ...Now for your setup. The purpose of my remote firebox (a cast iron stove) is to cool and clean the smoke before it enters the food chamber/box. To help you do the same, I suggest you replace the flex hose with two or three sections of single wall stovepipe. This will help in cooling the smoke and help in collecting impurities through condensation. Either raise the food box or lower the firebox so there is a gentle and straight incline between the two. This will allow the condensation and impurities collected in the pipe to flow back toward the firebox....





Mr T 59874 said:


> As for your smoke, it is important to remember, the denser the smoke, the less forgiving it is. There will be times when a thick heavy smoke is desired for a short period, and then there are times when a very pale thin smoke is desired for long periods. The type of fuel being used can most generally control the difference.
> 
> As you are using a tray type smoke generator and wanting to smoke cheese, try pulverizing pellets into a talc type powder by using a food blender. This will produce a very thin and light smoke that by cooling and cleaning on its way to the food box will produce what you are looking for.


That makes sense, but am I correct in thinking you don't want to achieve a heavy smoke in your cooker by keeping the smoke from escaping because then it will go stale and condense on the food?  If you want dense smoke you have to generate a lot of smoke, not keep the smoke around a long time.  Is that accurate?

I will definitely try pulverizing the pellets in a blender.  The method I read about involved wetting the pellets to get them to expand and then drying them out, your method would yield results much faster.


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## setesh

Thank you all for the help!  I really appreciate it!  I will put your advice into practice and report back with how it went.  Unfortunately I won't be able to play until Sunday


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## mr t 59874

Mr T 59874 said:


> ...Don’t you find it strange that some can enjoy cheese directly out of the smoker while others have to let it age for an extended time before consuming? The last aged cheddar I smoked was smoked for 20 straight hours and was delicious right out of the smoker. Bitter or acrid tasting cheese is a sure sign of over smoking.





Mr T 59874 said:


> ...Once the draft is started, any type of smoke generator can be used.





Mr T 59874 said:


> ...Now for your setup. The purpose of my remote firebox (a cast iron stove) is to cool and clean the smoke before it enters the food chamber/box. To help you do the same, I suggest you replace the flex hose with two or three sections of single wall stovepipe. This will help in cooling the smoke and help in collecting impurities through condensation. Either raise the food box or lower the firebox so there is a gentle and straight incline between the two. This will allow the condensation and impurities collected in the pipe to flow back toward the firebox....





Mr T 59874 said:


> As for your smoke, it is important to remember, the denser the smoke, the less forgiving it is. There will be times when a thick heavy smoke is desired for a short period, and then there are times when a very pale thin smoke is desired for long periods. The type of fuel being used can most generally control the difference.
> 
> As you are using a tray type smoke generator and wanting to smoke cheese, try pulverizing pellets into a talc type powder by using a food blender. This will produce a very thin and light smoke that by cooling and cleaning on its way to the food box will produce what you are looking for.


That makes sense, but am I correct in thinking you don't want to achieve a heavy smoke in your cooker by keeping the smoke from escaping because then it will go stale and condense on the food?  If you want dense smoke you have to generate a lot of smoke, not keep the smoke around a long time.  Is that accurate?

All you need to do is to keep the smoke moving so the smoke can accumulate on the product. Can't say I've ever experienced "stale" smoke. Condensation collecting on the product will collect more impurities, eventually causing the bitter taste. The reason for using your mod is to eliminate as many impurities as possible before it reaches your product. 

I will definitely try pulverizing the pellets in a blender.  The method I read about involved wetting the pellets to get them to expand and then drying them out, your method would yield results much faster.

If you are looking to do things fast and easy, you are conversing with the wrong person. LOL  The method you read about will break the pellets down but not to the density I am referring too. I am talking baby powder not sawdust. 

T


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## setesh

This has been a very busy week, but I did get to play a bit.  The first thing I did was load up a full row of pellets into the AMNPS and load it in the mailbox.  I wanted to confirm that my problem still existed....it did.  I tried heating the chimney with a torch.  This worked really well at creating a draft, but when the chimney cooled off the draft slowed down to the point that smoke was now exiting the holes in the mailbox.  So I removed the chimney and that made a huge difference.  The smoke rolled out much more quickly.  I put a small computer fan over the exhaust hole to create a stronger draft.  This helped even more, and reduced the density of smoke in the cooker.  I spread some peanuts on a grill mat as a test of this arragnement.  After 30 minutes I gave them a try and they were smokey, but bitter, like camp fire smoke. I tossed these peanuts into a ziplock bag to see how they change over time and spread the remaining pellets in the AMNPS out until the row was only one half filled to the top and tried again.  The difference in smoke surprised me.  I got maybe 1/4 the smoke of the full depth row of pellets.  I put fresh peanuts on the grilling mat, and after 30 minutes I gave them a try.  They were just barely smokey.  After 2 hours they were pretty good, but I could taste a bit of bitterness.  I let them go for another hour and the smoke and bitterness increased.  Definitely a big improvement over the full depth row of pellets, but still not acceptable for something like cheese.  Next I put some pellets in the blender and reduced them to powder.  The only difficulty with this method was keeping the stuff in the AMNPS.  I put a tray under the AMNPS to catch what fell through and then poured it back in.  I had to repeat this 5-6 times until the larger pieces formed a bed and the dust and powder stayed in.  This method was the most trouble, but it produced the best results by far.  The smoke it produced was thin, light blue, and smelled sweet and delicious.  My wife even commented on how good it smelled.  I loaded more nuts into the smoker and after 30 minutes i could barely detect smoke flavor.  I checked them every hour for another 6 hours, which is when the AMNPS burned itself out.  The resulting peanuts are delicious, so much so that it made me wish I had done a full batch.  They have a mild smoke flavor with absolutely no bitterness or harshness.  I want to try this method with cheese now as I bet it would be delicious right out of the smoker this way.  It's supposed to be cool on Friday, so hopefully I can give it a try then.

The next thing I need to do is make/find a stand for the smoker so it can be higher above the mailbox.  Then I can see about replacing the flexible ducting with stove pipe.  Those things combined might remove the need for an exhaust fan.  Thanks again for all your help! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  I love tinkering with stuff, and I"m really enjoying this hobby.


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## mr t 59874

Thanks for keeping good notes and the detailed report. You are doing a good job by learning how each change affects the results along the way.

Your smoke generator will work better once you raise it a bit. As you have learned, the generator has to be handled very gently. No need to worry about some powder escaping, it can be used on the next smoke, there will be enough retained to do the job. If possible, load it while it is inside the firebox.

When you smoke your cheese, I suggest you start with one small block of cheddar cut into bite size pieces. You and your wife can then sample at different intervals and note the results along with the color. Also, make note of the internal food box temperature. It will come in handy later.

At times, smoking can be a PITA but, to some, that is what makes it fun. You are on the right tract, with a few more fine tunings; you will have a very nice setup and producing some excellent cheese.

Good luck on your smoke. Will be waiting on the results.

T


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## chef jimmyj

You might consider buying Dust from Todd. Will save you time grinding and messing with the fine powder...JJ


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## mr t 59874

Chef JimmyJ said:


> You might consider buying Dust from Todd. Will save you time grinding and messing with the fine powder...JJ


Thats a good idea JJ but, unless the dust is like baby powder, he would still have to put in in a blender to get a ultra slow burn.

T


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## Bearcarver

Chef JimmyJ said:


> You might consider buying Dust from Todd. Will save you time grinding and messing with the fine powder...JJ









Exactly---Todd's works best.

I Tried all kinds---Dust from:

Planer----------------Too big chips.

Jointer----------------Too big & Fluffy.

Shaper---------------Chips too big.

Table Saw-----------Pretty good when crosscutting---Not too good when Ripping.

Radial Saw---------Pretty good.

Miter Saw-----------Pretty Good.

Sanders (Edge, Wide Belt, Drum, Spindle)----------Works, but Too Fine & Powdery to burn properly.

Todd's Dust-------Perfect.

Bear


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## mr t 59874

Agree with Bear, Todd's pellets do work best for turning into a very fine powder that burns well.  With a full load you can expect a 17 hour or longer burn.

T


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## Bearcarver

Mr T 59874 said:


> Agree with Bear, Todd's pellets do work best for turning into a very fine powder that burns well.  With a full load you can expect a 17 hour or longer burn.
> 
> T


I'm not talking about pulverizing pellets. I just get Todd's Dust & it's perfect right out of the bag. Been using it since before the AMNS came on the Market.

Bear


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## mr t 59874

Bearcarver said:


> I'm not talking about pulverizing pellets. I just get Todd's Dust & it's perfect right out of the bag. Been using it since before the AMNS came on the Market.
> 
> Bear





Setesh said:


> This has been a very busy week, but I did get to play a bit.  The first thing I did was load up a full row of pellets into the AMNPS and load it in the mailbox.  I wanted to confirm that my problem still existed....it did.    Next I put some pellets in the blender and reduced them to powder.  The only difficulty with this method was keeping the stuff in the AMNPS.  I put a tray under the AMNPS to catch what fell through and then poured it back in.  I had to repeat this 5-6 times until the larger pieces formed a bed and the dust and powder stayed in.  This method was the most trouble, but it produced the best results by far.  The smoke it produced was thin, light blue, and smelled sweet and delicious.  My wife even commented on how good it smelled.  I loaded more nuts into the smoker and after 30 minutes i could barely detect smoke flavor.  I checked them every hour for another 6 hours, which is when the AMNPS burned itself out.  The resulting peanuts are delicious, so much so that it made me wish I had done a full batch.  They have a mild smoke flavor with absolutely no bitterness or harshness.  I want to try this method with cheese now as I bet it would be delicious right out of the smoker this way.  It's supposed to be cool on Friday, so hopefully I can give it a try then.
> 
> The next thing I need to do is make/find a stand for the smoker so it can be higher above the mailbox.  Then I can see about replacing the flexible ducting with stove pipe.  Those things combined might remove the need for an exhaust fan.  Thanks again for all your help!
> 
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> I love tinkering with stuff, and I"m really enjoying this hobby.


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## Bearcarver

Mr T 59874 said:


>


Exactly,

Just clearing up that I wasn't talking about pulverizing pellets in my case. I was actually agreeing with Jimmy.

Then I gave my experience with testing every kind of Dust in my Cabinet Shop. Figured some may be interested.

I get Todd's Pellets for my AMNPS, and I get Todd's Dust for my AMNS. Both work perfectly for me for over 6 years.

Bear


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## setesh

Thank you for the kind words!  I definitely fall into the 'tinker' category.  I have done everything from rebuilding engines to adding rooms onto the house and enjoy it all.  I will definitely let you know how the cheese comes out.  I'm excited to give it a try.  

I will definitely get more pellets and some dust from Todd.  I have only tried 2 types of pellets: cookingpellets perfectmix, and Todd's.  Todds did better in the AMNPS, which you would expect, it being his creation and all.  For this next attempt at cheese I will just blend up some more of Todd's pellets and use that.  Thanks again!


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## setesh

I've been smoking for 2 hours now with Todd's pellets blended to a powder.  The cheese was cut into 1' pieces and I have been trying them every 30 minutes.  Good grief is it good at the 2 hour mark!  I just thought of something though, how much will the flavor mellow? Do I need to overshoot a little?  In other words, if I really like the flavor at 3 hours, do I need to let it go a bit longer since it will mellow?  Will a 3 hour cheese taste like a 2 hour cheese after a month of aging?


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## mr t 59874

Setesh said:


> I've been smoking for 2 hours now with Todd's pellets blended to a powder.  The cheese was cut into 1' pieces and I have been trying them every 30 minutes.  Good grief is it good at the 2 hour mark!  I just thought of something though, how much will the flavor mellow? Do I need to overshoot a little?  In other words, if I really like the flavor at 3 hours, do I need to let it go a bit longer since it will mellow?  Will a 3 hour cheese taste like a 2 hour cheese after a month of aging?


You know what I'm going to say. You are testing, note the time and color of the cheese when it reaches your desired taste, then go beyond for some amount of time. In one month you will have a very good idea as to what color and time to take it. 

The surface taste will seem to mellow a bit as the smoke flavor permeates deeper into the cheese, but the flavor will still be there. 

You are doing a fine job of learning your equipment and what it can do for you, keep going. You have already discovered that cheese does not need to have an off taste right out of the smoker and that alone puts you in a very small percentage of smokers.

Keep us up to date.

T


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## setesh

Mr T 59874 said:


> You know what I'm going to say. You are testing, note the time and color of the cheese when it reaches your desired taste, then go beyond for some amount of time. In one month you will have a very good idea as to what color and time to take it.
> 
> The surface taste will seem to mellow a bit as the smoke flavor permeates deeper into the cheese, but the flavor will still be there.
> 
> You are doing a fine job of learning your equipment and what it can do for you, keep going. You have already discovered that cheese does not need to have an off taste right out of the smoker and that alone puts you in a very small percentage of smokers.
> 
> Keep us up to date.
> 
> T


Yup, that's what I figured you would say.  Since I know this is working at this point I'm going to put in more cheese, not just sample cubes, and make it a real test.  I have a few 1lb blocks.  I'll cut them into 6 pieces, and take a piece off every 30 minutes starting at the 2 hour mark.  The longest smoke will be 5.5 hours.  After a month I will be able to tell what I like best.   And of course I will update with the results!  Thanks again!

Edit - And I still have 8 cubes in there, which I will continue to sample every 30 minutes.  I might just change my minimum time depending on how the samples come out.


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## Bearcarver

Sounds like you're doing real good, Setesh!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Mr T's got you covered!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Keep it up!

Bear


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## setesh

Thanks Bear!

So I had 1 lb of Monterrey Jack, 1 lb of extra sharp cheddar, and 8 oz of pepper jack.  I decided to cut them all down to 4 oz blocks and pull one every hour starting at 3 hours as the differences I am noticing in the taster cubes at 30 minute intervals are so minor.  I haven't hit a wall yet.  I just tried one the tasters at the 4.5 hour mark and it took real self control not to go back out and get another one!  I have been bringing them in and letting them sit for a few minutes so the smell of smoke gets out of my nose and I can taste them properly.  I also stuck some 1/4 sticks of butter on the rack where the cheese was removed from because smokey butter sounded pretty good.


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## setesh

I ended up liking the cheese at 4 hours the best, but who knows if that will change after it ages.  Even the 6 hour cheese had none of that bitter acrid flavor of the first cheese I made, but the smoke flavor was too strong for my taste.  It covered up the cheese flavor instead of complimenting it. Again, who knows what I will think a month from now when it has aged. The AMNPS is a champ!  It burned for a little over 9 hours and used a little more than 1 and a half rows doing it.  I figure it would run for 16-18 hours.  That was with dust filled just shy of the top.

I vacuum packed and and labeled each block of cheese with the brand, type, time smoked, temperature smoked at, smoke method, and dust used, and the date.  I put them in my kegerator which stays at 42 degrees and will let them age there.  The two cans in the picture are mixed nuts that went in at the same time as the block cheese.  I also have two 1/4 sticks of butter that I smoked for 2 hours, just to see how that is.













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__ setesh
__ Mar 11, 2016






Thanks again for all of the help!  It's amazing how much more fun a hobby is when there are knowledgeable and friendly people you can learn from.  You guys are great!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





One of the first lessons I remember my father teaching me was that there are two ways to learn things in life: the hard way, or talking to someone who has already learned the hard way.  The second way, of course, is MUCH easier!


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## mr t 59874

Very good job of packaging. It's good the improvements are working for you. We still have a couple more mods to do to improve what you are doing now though. One at a time. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Will be getting with you.

Tom


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## Bearcarver

Great Job, Setesh!!-------------
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Good job on the notations on the packages!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Keep up the good work!!

Bear


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## setesh

Thanks guys!  I ended up making a cart for my MES to sit on, with storage for the mailbox underneath.  I think I'm really going to like the MES being taller, and I'm hoping it will improve the drafting from the mailbox.  I just lit some pellets and when they have hit 10 minutes aflame I will begin testing.  Here is what she looks like now:













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__ setesh
__ Mar 12, 2016






Obviously the stack comes off for cold smoking.


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## Bearcarver

Looks Great, Setesh!!

Mine sits on top of two 12" high boxes----That 24" of height saves wear & tear on the old back!!

Bear


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## setesh

This stand is 24" as well, and I think I will like the added height a lot.  'Saving the old back' is becoming more convenient every year!  I intended to add a folding shelf to the right side, but it started raining on me as I was making the last cuts for the base stand, so that will be a future mod.

The increased height seems to have made a big difference in the draft, much more than I would have thought.  Here is the smoke density now with a full depth row of pellets in the AMNPS, immediately after opening the door:













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__ setesh
__ Mar 12, 2016






Before it was so thick I could barely see the shelves when I opened the door.


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## Bearcarver

Setesh said:


> This stand is 24" as well, and I think I will like the added height a lot.  'Saving the old back' is becoming more convenient every year!  I intended to add a folding shelf to the right side, but it started raining on me as I was making the last cuts for the base stand, so that will be a future mod.
> 
> The increased height seems to have made a big difference in the draft, much more than I would have thought.  Here is the smoke density now with a full depth row of pellets in the AMNPS, immediately after opening the door:
> 
> Before it was so thick I could barely see the shelves when I opened the door.


I like the shade of smoke you got in that pic. 

That's about what mine looks like after I open the door, until I can snap a pic. (a second or 2).

BTW: It seems to me every year the ground gets a little farther away!!!

Bear


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## setesh

Here is version 3.0 of the piping from the mailbox













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__ setesh
__ Mar 14, 2016






The smoke in the food chamber wasn't clean enough in version 2.0.  I know this because the section of pipe where it entered the smoker had a layer of tacky creosote on it.  I don't want that on my food, so I need more pipe to allow that creosote to condense in the pipe and not in the smoker.  Today I added three 3 foot sections of rigid pipe.  I originally planned on having the rigid pipe run horizontally, but it would have stuck out on each side of the stand and I didn't want that, so I installed it vertically.  I didn't know how this setup would flow, but it flows and drafts very well!  Since this flows so well and I have room for 2 more sections of rigid pipe I will get 2 more sections of rigid pipe and some more flex for a total of ~21 feet of pipe.  Besides, It isn't symmetrical right now, and we can't have that now can we? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   More pictures and results to follow after I get more pipe.


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## mr t 59874

You have the right idea of which I was referring too although the positioning is 90° off. The pipe should be laying horizontally with a slight incline so the condensation can flow away from the smoker and toward the generator. Will send pic of another's setup whom I am working with.

Tom


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## setesh

Mr T 59874 said:


> You have the right idea of which I was referring too although the positioning is 90° off. The pipe should be laying horizontally with a slight incline so the condensation can flow away from the smoker and toward the generator. Will send pic of another's setup whom I am working with.
> 
> Tom


OK, thanks!  That is how I was going to set it up, but the pipe stuck out so far on each side that it was a non starter.  The stand I made is 23" wide, and the pipe+connections hung out a foot on each side in a horizontal configuration, so it wouldn't work for where this smoker needs to sit.  If condensation is the only reason to have it horizontal then I'm not sure that it will be a problem.  I plan on cutting the last section of pipe down so that the flow from it to the smoker is on an incline.  It will probably be around 24'' long instead of 36" to accomplish this.  If condensate did form in this system, and was allowed to pool in the lower bends in the pipe, why would that be bad?  The fans I am using to pull smoke through the system draw very little amperage.  I could leave them running for 24 hours after I'm done smoking in order to dry condensate out of the system and it would only cost me a nickle.  I don't understand where the condensate would be coming from as this loop is before the cooking chamber.  There is little to no water vapor coming from the pellets/dust in the smoke generator, and the airflow of the system will take care of that by itself.  What am I missing?


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## mr t 59874

Everything is working as it should. If you rather use the design as it is, we can work with moister later. Continue with your test and keeping notes. One more mod and we will be ready to go.

T


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## setesh

OK.  I will pick up the pipe and finish that soon, hopefully tomorrow.  Do you recommend that I use red RTV gasket maker to seal the door up?  This thing leaks pretty badly from the door at this point.


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## mr t 59874

Don't worry too much about smoke leaking from around the door, we are working with a smoker after all. If however, you don't want it, we can control it by working with the draft.

T


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## setesh

> Originally Posted by Mr T 59874 View Post
> 
> Don't worry too much about smoke leaking from around the door, we are working with a smoker after all. If however, you don't want it, we can control it by working with the draft.
> 
> T


Since it's not a problem I'll ignore it.  Now that you mention it, no smoke comes from the door when the draft is going.  It makes sense, the draft causes negative pressure so no smoke would go out that way.   I'll file that away as a sign of poor drafting!


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## setesh

Here is what I hope to be the final piping arrangement.  It is drafting like crazy today, but it is very windy, so more testing will need to happen.  I'm smoking some potatoes right now (cheap) with a 1/2 height row of Todd's apple pellets and the smoke coming out is sweet and delicious smelling.  Apparently it makes good cologne too.  My wife got home and said "OOooo, you smell good!"













IMG_4250.JPG



__ setesh
__ Mar 15, 2016






It fits perfectly into the niche the fireplace creates, which was why I built it with the tubes vertical instead of horizontal.  It actually looks pretty good, much better than it did with a flex pipe curving around the stand.


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## cmayna

Ok, why so much piping?  There's no way you need that much for cold smoking with a mailbox mod and one of Todd's AMNPS or AMNS.


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## setesh

With the mailbox mod with tray smoker and 8 feet of rigid aluminum flex pipe I was still getting sticky creosote at the entrance to the smoker.  What I gathered from this is that I needed more pipe in order to allow more creosote to condense before it reached the smoker.  When I took the pipe off the first time it was a pretty neat effect inside the pipe.  It was dark caramel colored where it exited the mailbox and got lighter the further it went down.  At the end where it entered the smoker it was the color of watered down tea, but still sticky.

I'm doing some more testing right now to see the difference between using a tray smoker with no mailbox mod, and my long piped version of it.  It will be a few days before I get it all done, but I will post the results when I get it finished.


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## mr t 59874

cmayna said:


> Ok, why so much piping?  There's no way you need that much for cold smoking with a mailbox mod and one of Todd's AMNPS or AMNS.


Regardless of the type of smoke generator used, cooling smoke is only one part of the equation, the length of pipe will also be used to clean the smoke through the condensation of impurities in the smoke.   The following will help explain.  AMPS & Smoke Daddy Myths?

T


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## setesh

I started a new thread with the results from my testing.  You can find it here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/243936/cleaning-up-your-act-clean-smoke-is-delicious-smoke

Once again I would like to thank Mr T for all of his help.  As I sit here eating some of my cold smoked Monterrey Jack I am extremely thankful for his help!


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## joel11230

Can someone show me some detailed pictures of the mailbox thing? I have never heard of that. I joined this forum and I am learning I really don't know anything about smoking. Lol and thank you, joel


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## mr t 59874

joel11230 said:


> Can someone show me some detailed pictures of the mailbox thing? I have never heard of that. I joined this forum and I am learning I really don't know anything about smoking. Lol and thank you, joel


PM dave omak, he will walk you through how to use a mailbox for a firebox.

T


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## daveomak

Joel......  I used 3" adjustable elbows at both ends of 3" flex aluminum ducting...  remove the chip loader stuff and one elbow slides right in....  it sticks out far enough to attach a family size soup can to the elbow....  that moves heat and smoke to the center of the smoker....   Split the elbow in about 1" and attach to the MB as shown...    The holes in the bottom of the MB door add air to the AMNPS and the one above, moves smoke so there is little or no recirculation....  recirculating smoke has reduced oxygen and pellets need ALL the oxygen they can get....













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__ daveomak
__ Mar 28, 2016





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__ Mar 28, 2016


















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__ daveomak
__ Mar 28, 2016





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__ daveomak
__ Mar 28, 2016


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## joel11230

DaveOmak said:


> Joel......  I used 3" adjustable elbows at both ends of 3" flex aluminum ducting...  remove the chip loader stuff and one elbow slides right in....  it sticks out far enough to attach a family size soup can to the elbow....  that moves heat and smoke to the center of the smoker....   Split the elbow in about 1" and attach to the MB as shown...    The holes in the bottom of the MB door add air to the AMNPS and the one above, moves smoke so there is little or no recirculation....  recirculating smoke has reduced oxygen and pellets need ALL the oxygen they can get....
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Thank you Dave! One more question. What is the deal with thin blue smoke vs white smoke. Does it give a better flavor or what?


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## daveomak

White smoke "probably" has unburned tars and unburned "volatile" matter....   Ever notice a fire's smoke when it starts up...   white and billowy... Once down to coals etc, there is little smoke and it's thin and blue...     All the stuff that makes for acid rain has been burned up..  or so it says in fine print... somewhere...


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## clearprop

Would putting an electric heater element on the exhaust pipe be a significant help to pull a draft?


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## mr t 59874

Try using a longer exhaust pipe first and or lower your firebox. The greater the distance between the firebox and the exit of your exhaust the more draw.

T


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