# Curing Brine for Long Term Aging.



## hoopie (Feb 12, 2019)

Im looking to recreate something my Grandfather told me the family did when he was a kid.  Unfortunately hes no longer able to take questions.  He said they would butcher hogs around febuary/march and take hams and shoulders and submerge them in barrels.  In the barrels they had dissolved enough salt in water to float an egg.  They'd leave the pork in the brine for up to a month and then cold smoke them.   After that they'd get wrapped in brown paper bags and hung in the top of the garage all summer.    

I would specifically like to brine cure, and have a product that can be left un-refrigerated long term.  Can someone point me in the right direction?  Is it possible to do this with other types of meat?  Venison? Poultry?   

It seems like every article and thread Ive found that brines something, cooks it, and then refrigerates.


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## SmokinAl (Feb 12, 2019)

PM @pops6927 
He should be able to answer your questions.
Al


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## SonnyE (Feb 12, 2019)

Rock salt. Water will only dissolve/absorb so much of it. So if you have some undissolved in your barrel/crock, it's a brine as it can get.
I think it is admirable of you to pursue the old ways of preserving. I hope you can find enough info to try it.
But like Al said, contact Pops6927. If anybody knows, Pops does.


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## daveomak (Feb 12, 2019)

I think your grandfather may have used one of Morton's curing salts in his process....  Did you eat any of his cured hams ??  Was it pink inside or brown inside, like a regular hunk of pork..

FWIW, the older the egg, the less salt it takes to float it...  as the air chamber inside the egg increases...  It's not a good method to check the salt content...  Maybe they had chickens and all their eggs were fresh...  Who knows...


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 12, 2019)

In order to have room temp stable dry meat you need to welll...dry it.

Wet curing and cold smoking alone won't do it.

I used to do this with my dad with a whole leg of pork - but we'd start in december. After a few weeks in a wet brine would cold smoke for as long as one week. Then dry for a long time.

It was perfect for Easter (were not allowed to touch it before) and then kept pecking it until only the bone was left (usually mid summer). Stayed hung the whole time in the pantry (cold in winter, hot in the summer).

It's pretty much a wet cured smoked prosciutto.

I tried to quantify the floating egg test. It's not consistent: way too many egg variables. 10% salt is sufficient for your brine.


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 12, 2019)

SonnyE said:


> Rock salt. Water will only dissolve/absorb so much of it.



Rock, kosher, fine, table salt...they all disolve the same in water. Same amount. Just takes longer for large grain salts.

1L of water can disolve as much as 350g of salt in it .You don't want to cure your meat in that.


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## daveomak (Feb 12, 2019)

The link below is taken from Wedliny-Domowe....

https://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams


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## hoopie (Feb 12, 2019)

daveomak said:


> I think your grandfather may have used one of Morton's curing salts in his process....  Did you eat any of his cured hams ??  Was it pink inside or brown inside, like a regular hunk of pork..
> 
> FWIW, the older the egg, the less salt it takes to float it...  as the air chamber inside the egg increases...  It's not a good method to check the salt content...  Maybe they had chickens and all their eggs were fresh...  Who knows...



No i never got to taste it.  It was only ever brought up once in conversation and those are all ive got for details.  Im a chicken owner myself, and understand you can get an idea of how old an egg is by putting it in water and seeing to what degree it sinks or floats.   I figured they were using fresh eggs, I know they had chickens. 

I'll give that link a look over.  

Thanks everyone, for all the replies so far.


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 12, 2019)

Do you want to hang hams because you don't have enough fridge space or just because they look cool (they do indeed)?


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## daveomak (Feb 12, 2019)

Below is a recipe for hams that I developed a few years ago...   Makes the best ham I've ever tasted... I now use unsalted vegetable stock for the injection liquid..  

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/ham-from-fresh-picnics-update-10-21-money.236375/


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## diggingdogfarm (Feb 12, 2019)

hoopie

"He said they would butcher hogs around febuary/march and take hams and shoulders and submerge them in barrels. In the barrels they had dissolved enough salt in water to float an egg. They'd leave the pork in the brine for up to a month and then cold smoke them. After that they'd get wrapped in brown paper bags and hung in the top of the garage all summer."

It's basically "The Salt Box (Saltbox) method." Very popular decades ago.
It's explained in several books.
Often the meat was just salted and swam in the brine created by the water expelled from the meat, and topped off if needed!
FWIW,
At 68°F one liter of water can dissolve about 357 grams of salt, a concentration of 26.3%.

Here's a better method:

Details in print: http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/ASC/ASC213/ASC213.pdf


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## hoopie (Feb 12, 2019)

atomicsmoke said:


> Do you want to hang hams because you don't have enough fridge space or just because they look cool (they do indeed)?


   Yes and Yes.  Ive got a small "homestead" and while Ive got good freezer space it does run out from time to time.  I would like to know how to preserve meats without the use of electric.   Ive got a few books on the charcuterie, and sausage making, but nothing explains quite what I want to try.


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## WaterRat (Feb 12, 2019)

Isn't this where the term pork "butt" came from? The "butt" is a wood barrel and whole legs where packed in salt in them.


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## diggingdogfarm (Feb 12, 2019)

Needs to be modernized.
Source: Circular, Issues 106-153, By University of Wisconsin. College of Agriculture, 1918


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## HalfSmoked (Feb 12, 2019)

We use to do a dry sugar cure I post the recipe one time but not sure where it is on the forum. Will gladly post it again.
By the way and welcome to the forum.

Warren


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## dernektambura (Feb 12, 2019)

here is " old fashion, Southern Slavic" way my granpa teach me back in 60's which I still use today. .
4 - 5 % salt of total pork butt weight...
2% sugar (sugar keeps natural meat color)
mix salt and sugar in amount of water just enough to cover half an inch over the top of pork but.    keep it in brine for about 3 to 4 weeks turning pork but once every two days.. . after wet cure keep pork but for one day in fresh cold water changing water 3 times - desalination ..  hang it for day or two to drain, spread generous amount of red paprika on pork butt and smoke it for 3 weeks... After smoke is done hang it to dry on dry and cold place on light breeze for at least 2 month...  longer the better... and don't wash white mold that acumulates on pork butt... it is good sign that pork butt is healthy....
here is pic of cold smoked pork butt in my smoker..  good old fashion way..


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## SonnyE (Feb 12, 2019)

atomicsmoke said:


> Rock, kosher, fine, table salt...they all disolve the same in water. Same amount. Just takes longer for large grain salts.
> 
> 1L of water can disolve as much as 350g of salt in it .You don't want to cure your meat in that.



Here is where I got that.



Frankly, it is a moot point to me. I dry brine anything I do. (Well, not since I don't brine Deer or Antelope in the bath tub any more.)

But by all means, make yourself feel important.


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 12, 2019)

SonnyE said:


> Here is where I got that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That changes everything: if you got it from a video off youtube titled "the best..." It must be reliable information.

I am not trying to feel important. I just corrected some misinformation you posted. If i am wrong feel free to prove it.

P.s. even if you dry cure with rock salt. Leave it too long and the meat/fish will be inedible.


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## daveomak (Feb 13, 2019)

Rock salt and table salt "can" impart off flavors....  Kosher salt gives a clean flavor that is reliable...  
Do a taste test...  put each on your tongue and check the flavor....   Personally, I find Kosher salt to not be as harsh as the others...  Anywho, that's what I find... 
And that's my unscientific note for today....


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## dernektambura (Feb 13, 2019)

in my humble opinion, kosher salt, rock salt, table salt are pretty much the same....only difference is granularity of the salts... they all have diferent granularity, so one cup of table salt, kosher salt and rock salt have different weight measurement in one cup....whatever choice of salt you go with measure it by the weight not by the volume...
BTW....One of the most important thing before you even start process of salting is to squeeze out blood remains in main artery that runs along pork butt..  do this by pressing with tumb along the blood vein... you will be surprised how much blood comes out....


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 13, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> in my humble opinion, kosher salt, rock salt, table salt are pretty much the same....only difference is granularity of the salts... they all have diferent granularity, so one cup of table salt, kosher salt and rock salt have different weight measurement in one cup....whatever choice of salt you go with measure it by the weight not by the volume...
> BTW....One of the most important thing before you even start process of salting is to squeeze out blood remains in vein that runs along pork butt..  do this by pressing with tumb along the blod vein... you will be surprised how much blood comes out....


Some table salts have iodine added. Not good when you cure with it.


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## dernektambura (Feb 13, 2019)

atomicsmoke said:


> Some table salts have iodine added. Not good when you cure with it.


Good point...


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## HalfSmoked (Feb 13, 2019)

I'm surprised that no one has mention pickling salt.

Warren


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## daveomak (Feb 13, 2019)

I have read Pickling and Canning salt is Kosher....


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## dernektambura (Feb 13, 2019)

I always use kosher or coarse salt. ..never used table salt... I guess, as someone already mentioned, all salts disolve as same in brine/ wet salting...


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 13, 2019)

daveomak said:


> I have read Pickling and Canning salt is Kosher....


Does kosher salt mean the salt is kosher? My impression was that it meant is salt used to kashere meat.


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## daveomak (Feb 13, 2019)

*Kosher salt*, originally designed to be used in koshering meats (to draw out blood), is preferred by chefs and home cooks. Kosher salt is free of additives and is machine-produced to have coarse flat flakes, larger than table salt. It's typically not used for baking because it doesn't dissolve as easily in batters (use table salt for baking). Typically twice as much Kosher salt can be substituted for table salt.

Pickling Salt




This is an ideal option, if you need the substitute for pickling and canning. For every teaspoon of kosher salt, you can use 1¼ to 1½ teaspoons of pickling salt. It can also be used for koshering meat. Otherwise coarse sea salt is ideal. For fermented pickles, you need to replace kosher salt by weight. For 220 grams of kosher salt, use a cup of pickling salt.


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## SonnyE (Feb 13, 2019)

atomicsmoke said:


> That changes everything: if you got it from a video off youtube titled "the best..." It must be reliable information.
> 
> I am not trying to feel important. I just corrected some misinformation you posted. If i am wrong feel free to prove it.
> 
> P.s. even if you dry cure with rock salt. Leave it too long and the meat/fish will be inedible.




 atomicsmoke


So the _ONLY_ expert is you.

I see, Excuse me... I fell out of my chair laughing.

Ah well, onward through the fog.
You haven't cared for my a$$ since I got here. I get it.
But you've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a $hit.
You go right ahead thinking you know it all.
I'll just move along.


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## dernektambura (Feb 13, 2019)

SonnyE said:


> atomicsmoke
> 
> 
> So the _ONLY_ expert is you.
> ...


I would say atomicsmoke was giving out his point of view and was talking out of his own experience...hardly I found him posting to make himself important...aren't we all here to communicate and share?....


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## HalfSmoked (Feb 13, 2019)

Easy SonnyE I think he was just making his point as opinions we all have one whether everyone agrees or disagrees.

Warren


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## SonnyE (Feb 13, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I would say atomicsmoke was giving out his point of view and was talking out of his own experience...hardly I found him posting to make himself important...aren't we all here to communicate and share?....



There's a history behind this Dernek.


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## dernektambura (Feb 13, 2019)

SonnyE said:


> There's a history behind this Dernek.


I am sure it is but, I found yours and AtomicSmoke pointers and advice to be very helpful...so that being said, its funny that two experienced guys gets in this kind of arguments...


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## SonnyE (Feb 13, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I am sure it is but, I found yours and AtomicSmoke pointers and advice to be very helpful...so that being said, its funny that two experienced guys gets in this kind of arguments...



All better now Dernek. The ignore feature works great on this web site. 
I can ignore or choose not to ignore, certain irritations.
Onward through the fog!


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## hoopie (Feb 14, 2019)

Just picked up a 50 lb bag of Mortons Purex TFC Table Salt and some Prague #1, which are both available locally.  Instacure #2 is in the mail.


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