# David, summer sausage crumbling



## davie (Oct 27, 2015)

Hi I own a deer processing shop, I need some help, we are having a issue with our sausage crumbling. If I get a reply, I can share my recipe possibly and maybe get some help advice, something to help me. Thanks


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## capt7383 (Oct 27, 2015)

Are you using encapsulated citric acid


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## davie (Oct 27, 2015)

Capt.  I use leggs summer sausage #114,  I add some liquid smoke, black pepper, crushed red pepper, mustard seed, white sugar cure and water. I put it in casings, I put 3 small holes on each side of casings and put in a cookie sheet and cook in oven or smoker for 3 hours.  Rotating in hour in half.  We've always used same stuff in over 30 yrs but last 4-5 been having this issue of crumbling. I've tried everything to fix it too no avail.   We are clueless now,  that's why I bring it to here to try get some help possibly.  Thanks


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## davie (Oct 27, 2015)

Our trail Bologna is also doing the something also, only thing we doing that's new is the cure, I tried even stopping using cure to see if maybe it was breaking it down due to being new kind. But that was no help.


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## crankybuzzard (Oct 27, 2015)

What's the meat to fat ratio?  Sounds like it may be drying out


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## davie (Oct 27, 2015)

Cranky, r u meaning. Too much fat or not enough?


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## crankybuzzard (Oct 27, 2015)

Davie said:


> Cranky, r u meaning. Too much fat or not enough?


It could be too little fat in the mixture.  90/10 is used quite a bit and I tend to land somewhere between 80/20 and 90/10.

With venison, I usually go with about 75% venison and then either add chuck roast or pork butt for the remaining.

Another question, what temp are you cooking the SS at?  You could be getting it too hot and fatting out.


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## daveomak (Oct 27, 2015)

Could it be not mixing the meat long enough to develop the protein glue ???  or what ever it's called...

When I make sticks, this is what the mixed meat looks like....  Mixed until it forms a glue like stuff.....













DSCF2193.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Oct 27, 2015


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## elginplowboy (Oct 27, 2015)

Add NFDM( non fat dried milk) as a binder about 1 cup per 10lbs and when mixing mix till tacky like dave says above.


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## smokin monkey (Oct 27, 2015)

I would go with not enough fat content. I made Italian Summer Sausage from Chicken, and this IMHO was dry.


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## smokin monkey (Oct 27, 2015)

Just an after thought, one of my customers has a similar plant and makes venison sausage, will ask him for some advice.


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## driedstick (Oct 27, 2015)

CrankyBuzzard said:


> It could be too little fat in the mixture.  90/10 is used quite a bit and I tend to land somewhere between 80/20 and 90/10.
> 
> With venison, I usually go with about 75% venison and then either add chuck roast or pork butt for the remaining.
> 
> Another question, what temp are you cooking the SS at?  You could be getting it too hot and fatting out.


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## davie (Oct 27, 2015)

I cook on 250 for 3 hours in a cookie sheet in water with 3 holes on each side on casing. I rotate it in ahoy in half


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## davie (Oct 27, 2015)

I rotate it every hour in half,  I have no clue what it showed I said, lol


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## driedstick (Oct 27, 2015)

Davie said:


> I cook on 250 for 3 hours in a cookie sheet in water with 3 holes on each side on casing. I rotate it in ahoy in half


Cooking too hot??? I would take your lowest temp on the oven 170?? and try it then and take temp of sausage up to 152 pull it out of oven then in to a Ice bath to cool back down to 100* 

If you have not the right fat then it will be dry and cooking at that temp will dry it out causing it to crumble 

DS


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## davie (Oct 27, 2015)

Thanks. We have always cooked on 240 or 250 for many many years,  we are going to try more fats first to see if that helps if not we will try something else,  thanks everyone for all the feedback, definitely learned a few ideas and things I was unaware of.  Thanks greatly


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## crankybuzzard (Oct 28, 2015)

Davie said:


> Thanks. We have always cooked on 240 or 250 for many many years,  we are going to try more fats first to see if that helps if not we will try something else,  thanks everyone for all the feedback, definitely learned a few ideas and things I was unaware of.  Thanks greatly



I'm leaning towards it fatting out at those temps, but please let us know how it goes.


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## davie (Oct 28, 2015)

So u believe I need add more fat and what temp. Do u maybe recommend to cook on and how long.


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## davie (Oct 28, 2015)

I cook in stove oven and also in a cabelas smoker


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## driedstick (Oct 28, 2015)

Davie said:


> So u believe I need add more fat and what temp. Do u maybe recommend to cook on and how long.


ya more fat and lower temps,,,, we all were telling you this,,,,,sorry but WE have made alot of sausages here 240 - 250 is too hot,,,,ya you have made it before and it was good,,,try doing it our way and  I will bet you it will be even better,,,,,if you don't believe me on temps and times just use the search bar above and spend hours doing research and coming out with the same product,,,,,

We can help with times and temp let us know if you want instructions on the oven or cabels smoker,,,,we will help ya ,,,,,,,,,we have done TONS of sausage and snack sticks her on this site

Search peoples profiles, Nepas, boykjo, chef willie, dirt sailor, Cranky buzzard, Gary S, waterin hole brew,  ECT,,,All the  same 

good link with temps and times 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/206601/hot-habanero-summer-sausage-with-lava-jack

Good luck,,,,Hope this helps 

A full smoker is a happy smoker 

DS


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## pc farmer (Oct 28, 2015)

driedstick said:


> ya more fat and lower temps,,,, we all were telling you this,,,,,sorry but WE have made alot of sausages here 240 - 250 is too hot,,,,ya you have made it before and it was good,,,try doing it our way and  I will bet you it will be even better,,,,,if you don't believe me on temps and times just use the search bar above and spend hours doing research and coming out with the same product,,,,,
> 
> We can help with times and temp let us know if you want instructions on the oven or cabels smoker,,,,we will help ya ,,,,,,,,,we have done TONS of sausage and snack sticks her on this site
> 
> ...



Great post.    Pretty much sums it up.


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## driedstick (Oct 28, 2015)

c farmer said:


> Great post. Pretty much sums it up.


Thanks farmer,,your posts as well (love the hammy sticks BTW) 

DS


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## davie (Oct 29, 2015)

Thanks greatly driedstick. I really appreciate all the help, we have been at crossroad with this for 2 seasons now, we've tried what we thought was everything,  I'll try anything right now at this time,    What temp. And how long do u suggest to cook.    I also have been told today to make it but to put in fridge for 24 hours before cooking, is this possibly true to do.  I am so glad I got up at 4am to just work and Google and found this site. So thankful to find the right help.  Thank you all.


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## driedstick (Oct 29, 2015)

Davie said:


> Thanks greatly driedstick. I really appreciate all the help, we have been at crossroad with this for 2 seasons now, we've tried what we thought was everything, I'll try anything right now at this time, What temp. And how long do u suggest to cook. I also have been told today to make it but to put in fridge for 24 hours before cooking, is this possibly true to do. I am so glad I got up at 4am to just work and Google and found this site. So thankful to find the right help. Thank you all.


Your welcome Davie,,,, We all try to help each other out here,,, And we want to see you succeed and make some great product...

SO 

Are you wanting to use oven or smoker?? 

DS


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## davie (Oct 29, 2015)

need both oven and smoker please, I use both due to space and time To make a faster turn around time for customer, specially out of state. We love to be same day next day service.  Cooking summer sausage a day later will cost me that super fast time we give our customers with there deers but to know the sausage is right, I'll gladly do it.  My heart is pounding to know I've possibly found my issue, I got 2 rolls to make tomorrow, I can't wait to try it.


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## driedstick (Oct 29, 2015)

If you are doing it in the oven go to your lowest temp probably somewhere between 170-200, put them in the oven with oven door cracked for about 2hrs,,, after two hrs shut oven door and cook till IT of sausages are 152* pull them out of the oven and put them in a cold bath (bucket or sink of Ice water) this will stop the cooking process, to IT of 80-100*,,, set on stove and let bloom for two hrs then refrigerate. 

Smoker

Temps of sausage same.

Pre heat smoker to 130*, 

add sausages, vents open NO SMOKE and keep it here for two hours, 

after 2 hrs 

Add smoke and bump temp up 10* each hour till smoker temp is at 170,, 

keep it here till temp of sausage is 152*

then cold bath and counter and fridge same as above,.

average 2 1/2" summer sausage will take about 8hrs unless you have a stall so plan accordingly 

Good luck and let us know 

DS


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