# Salami's......confused!!!



## sniper7990 (Jan 8, 2016)

Right, I have seen loads of recopies for salami....

some call for Prague #2 powder, some don't.

some call for a 'culture' and some don't

some just use salt, sugar and herbs as a cure

I'm really confused.

I'm hoping to have a go at making some salami this weekend but was only going to use salt, sugar and Prague #2 without any culture

can I do that?


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## daveomak (Jan 8, 2016)

If you plan on placing in the refrigerator for a week or so, then hanging in a curing chamber with proper temp and humidity for 3 months to a year, until proper % loss in moisture has been achieved, the cure #2 is the proper cure to use... 

If you plan on mixing up the ingredients, refer for a few days then smoking to an internal temp of 160 ish, cure #1 is the proper cure...

It would help if we saw the complete recipe you want to follow.....


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## smokeymose (Jan 8, 2016)

DaveOmak said:


> If you plan on placing in the refrigerator for a week or so, then hanging in a curing chamber with proper temp and humidity for 3 months to a year, until proper % loss in moisture has been achieved, the cure #2 is the proper cure to use...
> 
> If you plan on mixing up the ingredients, refer for a few days then smoking to an internal temp of 160 ish, cure #1 is the proper cure...
> 
> It would help if we saw the complete recipe you want to follow.....


I'll go with Dave on this one, Sniper. More info please. I've been researching Salami for the Mrs. , and it looks to me that anything that takes #2 is really hard core...
Are you wanting "Hard Salami"?


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## sniper7990 (Jan 9, 2016)

Yeh sorry folks, I'm planning on making air dried salami, possibly chorizo.

Was planning to hang them for a few weeks until the desired weight loss was achieved (30%?)

These will not be cooked, but sliced and eaten raw.

Was planning on using the following ratios:-

2.5% salt

1% sugar

0.25% Prague #2

plus herbs etc

Im ok with the function of the #2 cure, but what is the culture for and is it essential?

I have natural hog casings and natural Ox runners for a larger diameter sausage.

Cheers guys


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## aram (Jan 9, 2016)

The cure is effective against botulism causing bacterium. The culture helps to prevent other types of bacteria from growing and taking hold by lowering the pH of your salami and creating an acidic environment that is not favorable for other bacteria to thrive in. 

I wouldn't consider not using it simply because it is available and one packet goes a long way. Some people choose not to use it but i do. It also provides flavor profiles which gives you an extra ingredient to experiment with. 

Good luck!


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## DanMcG (Jan 9, 2016)

Hey Sniper, here's a good read on the need for cultures;
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage


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## wade (Jan 9, 2016)

The culture is as much about creating the flavour style of sausage as it is in microbiological control. The culture is made from a blend of lactobacillus bacteria that metabolise the sugars (glucose) in the sausage into lactic acid. This lowers the pH (increases the acidity) of the sausage which both helps inhibit the growth of bacterial spores like botulinum but also gives the sausage flavour the traditional acidic sharpness.

There are many different variations of "salami", some are fermented and others not. If you are looking to achieve the slightly sharp salami taste that we are used to in our delicatessens then you will need to add the culture. It is not absolutely necessary for bacterial control (as has been mentioned above) as you will also be adding nitrite/nitrate and will be drying it.


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## sniper7990 (Jan 9, 2016)

Brilliant, cheers guys for all your input.

I'm going to have a crack at doing these today without a culture, once I've managed to get some sleep......its 5am now and been up since 4am with the dreaded Man-Flue, so may not survive long enough to make my salami anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## daveomak (Jan 10, 2016)

Sniper7990 said:


> Brilliant, cheers guys for all your input.
> 
> I'm going to have a crack at doing these today without a culture, once I've managed to get some sleep......its 5am now and been up since 4am with the dreaded Man-Flue, so may not survive long enough to make my salami anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is my uneducated opinion....     Different "aged cured" meats from different countries all have a different flavor....   Could be the bacteria...    some meat aging places may be next to a milk / cheese farm....  some next to wineries...  some in the mountains etc...   each locale has it's own specific flora and fauna and bacteria that is prolific in that specific "climate"....  Over the years, scientists separated the bacteria strain from each local that contributed to the specific flavor from that region....   each region had different temperature ranges and humidity....   each culture thrived in that environment and affected the final flavor.....  

That is why, specific cultures are sold to mimic the flavor from specific regions and temp and humidity is different from the next......

The flavor of your sausage will be specific to the bacteria in "Snipers basement" or wherever the meat was processed...  The sausage of 200 years ago, the meat was usually processed on the property and there were no "outside the region" influences....


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## chewmeister (Jan 10, 2016)

Sniper7990 said:


> Yeh sorry folks, I'm planning on making air dried salami, possibly chorizo.
> 
> Was planning to hang them for a few weeks until the desired weight loss was achieved (30%?)
> 
> ...


Sniper, do you have a dedicated curing chamber that can maintain the proper temp and RH? If not you could be flirting with danger if you're planning on air drying. If you don't have a curing chamber, look into using the Umai material.


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## atomicsmoke (Jan 10, 2016)

Culture is not essential. But is the difference between a plain dried sausage and real charcuterie. Mold too.If you've been in a proper charcuterie shop that is what it smells like inside.

I do both (w and w/o), they are both tasty, but you need to try at some point fermented if you want to blow your olfactory and gustatory senses away.

You've done a lamb prosciutto, a pig leg is drying at your place. Other than the flu I don't know what's stopping you from making a salami.


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## daveomak (Jan 11, 2016)

This note has been taken from Len Poli's site on Making Salami at home...













2016-01-11 STARTER CULTURES why to use 001 (2).jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jan 11, 2016


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## sniper7990 (Jan 11, 2016)

Ok. So had a bash at this. Only a small quantity to start with and these are currently in the refrigerator. Some Italian style salami and some chorizo 












20160111_122305.jpg



__ sniper7990
__ Jan 11, 2016


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## atomicsmoke (Jan 11, 2016)

Culture or no culture?


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## sniper7990 (Jan 11, 2016)

That's no culture mate.....mainly coz I couldt find any locally and just couldn't wait to order off the net lol


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## sniper7990 (Jan 31, 2016)

well, I took them out of the fridge and hung them in the house.

Finally decided to try them yesterday and I was really surprised with the results!!!













20160130_095057.jpg



__ sniper7990
__ Jan 31, 2016


















20160130_095110.jpg



__ sniper7990
__ Jan 31, 2016






Chorizo on the left and Italian salami on the right.

Didn't get any mould formation on these at all

Think I put a bit too much Paprika in the Chorizo, but can adjust that any time.

Just a quick question, I use Ox Runners as casings as they were the largest I could find at the time. But what casings are uses on the larger diameter salami's you see on the deli counter, about 3-4 inch?


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## DanMcG (Jan 31, 2016)

for big caliber salami use a beef bung 
http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=85_94_95

Some also use a protein lined fibrous casings, or just plain fibrous casings. The protein lined ones will bond to the meat so there's less chance of getting air pockets while it dries


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## sniper7990 (Feb 2, 2016)

I'm still here, not died of the flu......or poisoned myself with my salami LOL

Cheers Dan , yep, found a UK supplier so will have a crack with those at a later date, may try to make Haggis!!!

One  more question (sorry!!!!)?????

Storage......don't want them to dry out any more so was thinking of using the food vacuum sealer I got for Christmas. If I seal them up and keep them in the fridge, how long will they keep for?


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 2, 2016)

Months...many months.

How do you like them?


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## DanMcG (Feb 2, 2016)

Yeap, What Atomicsmoke said.


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## wade (Feb 3, 2016)

As said above - Sealed and chilled it will be months.


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## wade (Feb 3, 2016)

I usually get my casings from Weschenfelder. It looks like their biggest natural casings though are beef middles and they only go up to about 55mm (just over 2 inches).

http://www.weschenfelder.co.uk/salami-chorizo-making/casings/beef-middle-casings-50-55-9mtrs.html


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## sniper7990 (Feb 3, 2016)

DanMcG said:


> Yeap, What Atomicsmoke said.






atomicsmoke said:


> Months...many months.
> 
> How do you like them?



They turned out really well. 
I've been snacking on them since I made them
Will try using the Ox Bung next time so I get some larger diameter salami


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## hoity toit (Feb 8, 2016)

DaveOmak said:


> If you plan on placing in the refrigerator for a week or so, then hanging in a curing chamber with proper temp and humidity for 3 months to a year, until proper % loss in moisture has been achieved, the cure #2 is the proper cure to use...
> 
> If you plan on mixing up the ingredients, refer for a few days then smoking to an internal temp of 160 ish, cure #1 is the proper cure...
> 
> It would help if we saw the complete recipe you want to follow.....


Agreed. yep.


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## sniper7990 (Apr 13, 2016)

sorry folks.....been busy as hell.....yeh they turned out really good....so good in fact ive been asked to make some for family n friends and now im going to try to make a venison salami :)


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