# FAIL: 17-pound brisket - what did I do wrong?



## BBQBakas (Oct 17, 2020)

Just joined SMB after almost 10 years of coming to the forum and getting advice. I've been smoking meat since 2009 and have learned a lot from this site. I started with a $75 upright wood smoker from Home Depot, then graduated to a Camp Chef pellet smoker from 2014-2019. This year I stepped up to a Green Mountain Grill smoker (the big one). I've smoked a half dozen briskets that have all come out relatively decent; not perfect but I'd rate them 7/10 with minor tweaks needed.

Yesterday, we had friends over and I decided to smoke a 17-pound packer brisket purchased from my local market in Sonoma. It appeared to be well marbled and was trimmed up nicely to 1/3" fat and aerodynamic.
For reasons I still can't understand, the brisket came out absolutely terrible. It's my biggest failure to date and a waste of $70. The brisket came out like beef jerky. Take away my man card. Take away my smoker. What I did to that piece of beef should be punished it was so awful.

I need closure. Looking for feedback from the board.

*VITALS*
- 17.5 pound packer trimmed to about 16 pounds give or take
- slathered with mustard
- seasoned with about 3/4 cup mix of salt/pepper/garlic salt
- beef sat at room temperature 2-3 hours
- started smoking 9pm at 250° fat side down
- at midnight I bumped the temp to 260° and spritzed with Worcestershire sauce
- at 8am the point temp was around 190°
- at 9am wrapped in butcher paper
- backed the heat down to 225° and smoked until 1pm
- took off the smoker, wrapped in a towel and placed in my Yeti cooler
- 5pm I went to cut the end of the flat and I couldn't even cut it with a serrated knife. It was like cutting leather

The bark was black and kinda burnt tasting, perhaps from too much spritzing with Worcestershire? The fat on the bottom was crisp, almost burnt.
I'm baffled as to how my brisket turned out so badly. I cut up what I could and served it in a serving dish full of au jus.

Please help a BBQ brother out. What went wrong?


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## BGKYSmoker (Oct 17, 2020)

Well

we all been there.
i would hae kept the grill temp at 250 the wholes time. Good with the spag (salt/pepper/garlic>powder) and left out the garlic salt (salt can zap the liquid out of the meat. With the salt & added garlic salt too much salt perhaps.


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## jcam222 (Oct 17, 2020)

If your meat temp was 190F at 8am and you smoked at 225F for 5 more hours what was your finish temp?? I’d think you went way beyond 200 -205F.


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## noboundaries (Oct 17, 2020)

Nothing wrong with the way you prepped the brisket. 

The "point" temp was 190F. The very forgiving point is full of fat and will read 10-15F higher than the flat AND give a false tender when probed  When it comes to briskets, cook/smoke to flat temps and probes for tenderness, not the point. 

No mention of how the flat probed when you removed it at 1 PM. Because you backed the heat down to 225F at 9AM, you set yourself up for an undercooked, tough as leather flat. It wasn't jerky. It was undercooked and full of unmelted, tough collagen connective tissue.  If you had left the chamber temp at 250F, you would have had better heat transfer and more melted collagen in the flat.

Brisket isn't steak. An overcooked brisket will be tender, somewhat juicy, but will crumble when sliced. A tough brisket flat is an undercooked flat.


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## BBQBakas (Oct 17, 2020)

jcam222 said:


> If your meat temp was 190F at 8am and you smoked at 225F for 5 more hours what was your finish temp?? I’d think you went way beyond 200 -205F.


Part of my problem (i think) is where to take the temp. When I pulled it from the smoker it was around 205 in the point.


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## zsmoking (Oct 17, 2020)

noboundaries said:


> Brisket isn't steak. An overcooked brisket will be tender, somewhat juicy, but will crumble when sliced. A tough brisket flat is an undercooked flat.


I am by no means a brisket expert, but this was my first thought when I read the original post as well.  Somewhat similar to a pork shoulder - if it's tough it's almost always because it was pulled off too soon.


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## BBQBakas (Oct 17, 2020)

noboundaries said:


> Nothing wrong with the way you prepped the brisket.
> 
> The "point" temp was 190F. The very forgiving point is full of fat and will read 10-15F higher than the flat AND give a false tender when probed  When it comes to briskets, cook/smoke to flat temps and probes for tenderness, not the point.
> 
> ...


This seems to be the crux of my dilema. Couldn't figure out if I overcooked or undercooked. One error seems to be where I took the temp reading. To your point, I may have taken the reading at 9am in a fatty part of the point and didn't even check temps in the flat. However, when I went to cut the meat, the entire bottom of the brisket appeared to be burnt.

I wasn't sure if I should've cooked it longer or if I overcooked. With a 17-pound brisket I thought there would be more margin for error.


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## BBQBakas (Oct 17, 2020)

I know temps aren't the only piece of information to base decisions off of. I tried the jiggle test and used the temp gauge to probe. I think I poked the probe into the deckle area thinking it was tender and jiggly and got a false reading on where it was in the cook. At no point was the flat floppy nor did it bend easily whether I checked at 9am or 1pm.


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## noboundaries (Oct 17, 2020)

Worcestershire sauce does contain molasses and sugar. Both will burn when exposed to heat for a long time. The vinegar in WS can break down and dry out the exterior so that it flakes when cut on the heat side. 

These are all hard-learned lessons we've all experienced.


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## thirdeye (Oct 17, 2020)

I'm with *

 noboundaries
*on this one, you should have probed for tenderness in the flat  at 1 PM.  I bet it was still tight.  The point muscle will always take care of itself.  Lowering the pit temp after you wrapped is not a bad thing when you *wrap in foil *and add some beefy auJus...., but wrapping in pink paper is different because it does not seal as tight as foil. So lowering the temp could have hurt you.   I see you did not inject either.  When I inject and wrap in pink paper, I'll still wind up with a small amount of liquid in the paper.


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## SmokinEdge (Oct 17, 2020)

Most cows are right handed. Meaning they get up, using their right front leg first. Sooo, picking a left side brisket is key! Lol
Seriously though, some meat is better than others. I think you have a combination of lower quality brisket coupled with over cooking. Most likely that meat should have been pulled off by 10am. And wrapped for the cooler for a rest. Also, might want to test your meat thermometer. Cook and learn.


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## Bud J (Oct 17, 2020)

Unfortunately I cannot give you any advice other than to give you a pat on the back.
I can’t tell you how many times I have done a BBQ for just me and it comes out PERFECT. But do that same cook for family/friends and comes out horrible.
Murphys Law...my middle name.


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## sawhorseray (Oct 17, 2020)

SmokinEdge said:


> Most cows are right handed. Meaning they get up, using their right front leg first. Sooo, picking a left side brisket is key! Lol



Best post of the week, kudos! As far as brisket goes, I'd much rather smoke up beef short ribs. RAY


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## SmokinEdge (Oct 17, 2020)

sawhorseray said:


> Best post of the week, kudos! As far as brisket goes, I'd much rather smoke up beef short ribs. RAY


Agreed Ray. 
Had a buddy the other day give me a whole sack of short ribs from a beef he just had processed. He said that nobody he knows will eat them. I graciously took the ribs, and told him I could figure out something to do with them.  I’ll start with the first batch braised in red wine and go from there. Lol


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## pineywoods (Oct 18, 2020)

I'm with noboundaries and thirdeye on this one. Foil will allow it to keep more moisture than paper I usually will put it in a disposable aluminum pan with a little liquid in it and foil over the top to seal it tight. You may loose some of the crispy bark if you like it using the foil but personally I don't like the hard crispy bark. Also consider injecting it before putting it on maybe something like beef broth or low sodium Dale's I actually mix the two and inject that. At about 190 you want to start probing the flat many will use the thermo probe and some use a tooth pick when the probe slides in easily it's done and personally I've had it done at 195 to about 208 it differs with about every one. 
As for the one you have now try a low simmer or crock pot with beef broth or bbq sauce for several hours until tender


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## Chasdev (Oct 18, 2020)

I vote that the tough part was over cooked and badly.
I had the same thing happen trying to cook overnight brisket on a kamado.
I set the vents to the exact temp I wanted to run and they stayed the same all night but when the brisket was done the botton 1/4-1/2 inch was hard as a rock BUT the rest of it, above the burned part was just fine!
I think the underside got burned by radiated heat while the rest cooked from the air temp as it should have.
My suggestion is that you use a cookie cooling rack inside an aluminum pan (to raise the meat up and out of the pan) and also allow you to catch drippings and/or add water.
I prefer to run to 160/170 internal (averaged out across the entire brisket) then wrap in foil but with apple cider vinegar/mixed with apple cider sprayed inside the foil wrap before closing.
I never place briskets directly on the cook grate anymore, and since I started elevating away from the heat source, my results have improved greatly.


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## HalfSmoked (Oct 18, 2020)

Wow you asked a question and for sure you received the replies. I can say that the only thing I do different then the replies is I cook fat side up and use the water pan but I'm a no wrap guy also and never over 225.

Warren


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## thirdeye (Oct 18, 2020)

Here is a how-to collage on picking out a left side brisket I put together years ago.   For some fun, ask a meat cutter which is a lefty.... a good one can tell you.


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## smokinstubbs (Oct 18, 2020)

BBQBakas said:


> *VITALS*
> - started smoking 9pm at 250° fat side down
> 
> 
> Please help a BBQ brother out. What went wrong?



That is your fail right there! Never, ever,  cook with the fat side down, always fat side up! Good Luck next time


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## schlotz (Oct 18, 2020)

Did you verify your grate temp with a calibrated probe? Notice you mentioned the point temp but what was the flat temp? BTW: temp is only a guideline. To know when a brisket is done, start probing for tenderness in the thickest part of the flat. The feel is like probing a jar of peanut butter going in/out.


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## noboundaries (Oct 18, 2020)

smokinstubbs said:


> Never, ever, cook with the fat side down, always fat side up!



I cook with the fat toward the heat for protection. I've tried it both ways and the fat toward the heat gives a better result: sometimes that's fat side up (my Kettle and indirect heat); fat side down in my WSM. 

In a pepper pooper it will depend whether the roast is directly over the heating element or off to the side for indirect heating from above.


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## BBQBakas (Oct 18, 2020)

schlotz said:


> Did you verify your grate temp with a calibrated probe? Notice you mentioned the point temp but what was the flat temp? BTW: temp is only a guideline. To know when a brisket is done, start probing for tenderness in the thickest part of the flat. The feel is like probing a jar of peanut butter going in/out.


That was one of my big mistakes. I took the temp in the wrong place.


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## BBQBakas (Oct 18, 2020)

HalfSmoked said:


> Wow you asked a question and for sure you received the replies. I can say that the only thing I do different then the replies is I cook fat side up and use the water pan but I'm a no wrap guy also and never over 225.
> 
> Warren


Thank you to everyone for the feedback. Super helpful!

I've always done briskets fat side up. Last time the bottom got a little crispy and after poking around the web researching the great fat side up or down debate, I decided to do fat side down. Never again.
This pellet smoker seems to generate a bit too much heat underneath so I'm going to take suggestions and do'em fat side up and use an aluminum pan. Maybe I'll do 225 next time...how long per pound at 225?


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## HalfSmoked (Oct 19, 2020)

BBQBakas said:


> Thank you to everyone for the feedback. Super helpful!
> 
> I've always done briskets fat side up. Last time the bottom got a little crispy and after poking around the web researching the great fat side up or down debate, I decided to do fat side down. Never again.
> This pellet smoker seems to generate a bit too much heat underneath so I'm going to take suggestions and do'em fat side up and use an aluminum pan. Maybe I'll do 225 next time...how long per pound at 225?



I have never done it by how long per pound just until its done. Some full packers have taken as long as 20 hours.

Warren


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## HalfSmoked (Oct 19, 2020)

Thanks for the like BBQBakas it is appreciated.

Warren


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## BBQBakas (Oct 23, 2020)

*** MYSTERY SOLVED ***

This has really been bothering me for the past week since the "incident". It just doesn't add up in my head. I have a 17-pound brisket, which should have required significant time in the smoker. I never went above 265° and cooked 15 hours. You'd think the brisket was under cooked and the fat didn't render completely, but the brisket came out way over cooked. Something was right.

So, I went to clean out my pellet smoker and spoke with Green Mountain Grills support. There was a bunch of ash in the bottom of my smoker which isn't normally there. That was a clue something was not working right.

It turns out their firmware needed an update. The software/firmware on my smoker was prone to voltage surges and heat spikes. The temperature wasn't regulating the way a pellet smoker should. So all the extra voltage led to all the ash in the bottom and excessive heat during the cook. Although my digital temp setting on the grill showed the temperature I wanted, inside was much hotter which would explain why my temp readings were off.


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## schlotz (Oct 23, 2020)

BBQBakas said:


> *** MYSTERY SOLVED ***
> 
> This has really been bothering me for the past week since the "incident". It just doesn't add up in my head. I have a 17-pound brisket, which should have required significant time in the smoker. I never went above 265° and cooked 15 hours. You'd think the brisket was under cooked and the fat didn't render completely, but the brisket came out way over cooked. Something was right.
> 
> ...


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## schlotz (Oct 23, 2020)

Well looks like you found the smoking gun. It just goes  to show why it’s so important to have a reporting thermometer and not rely solely on built-in ones regardless of smoker brand.


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## BBQBakas (Oct 25, 2020)

schlotz said:


> Well looks like you found the smoking gun. It just goes  to show why it’s so important to have a reporting thermometer and not rely solely on built-in ones regardless of smoker brand.



Just got a new thermometer. For the burnt brisket part of the issue was I started the cook before going to bed. Heat must've been spiking all night. I got up to check but didn't take a temp reading...lesson learnt (which rhymes with burnt).


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## joetee (Oct 25, 2020)

I don't know your smoker. Is your fire below your meat? If so, do you have a heat shield between the fire and your meat? How are you getting grill temp? Wireless probe or mounted thermometer on the door?


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## joetee (Oct 25, 2020)

Never mind. I read through some more of your posts and found you you said.


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## Hijack73 (Oct 25, 2020)

You figured it out, which is great!!!

Burnt bottom on a pellet grill is always going to be a temp spike issue.  I have it on my pit boss.  Well...had it on my PB..

There was something wrong with the factory controller, but I didn't fix it, I ordered a Savannah Stoker PID.   I should have made Pit Boss send a new one but I knew I was going to add a Stoker or some other kind of PID before I ever even bought it, so I limped along on a few cooks - but not before I did exactly to a rack of ribs what you did to a brisket and caught it happening to a brisket in the middle of a cook.  Salvaged the brisket, gnawed on the ribs.   


Temp spikes were wild.  Only way I could use mine factory was to start smoking it on the smoker on P settings and finishing in my oven.  I could actually get mine up to over 200 on P settings so got plenty of flavor and smoked it hot enough to not have the meat spoil.

Smoke fat side down or up doesn't usually matter.  I go fat down for insurance.  Had I not had that one brisket I mentioned fat down, I'd have really messed that one up.  Fat was burnt and stuck to the grates.


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## ShanghaiBubba (Oct 25, 2020)

BBQBakas said:


> Just joined SMB after almost 10 years of coming to the forum and getting advice. I've been smoking meat since 2009 and have learned a lot from this site. I started with a $75 upright wood smoker from Home Depot, then graduated to a Camp Chef pellet smoker from 2014-2019. This year I stepped up to a Green Mountain Grill smoker (the big one). I've smoked a half dozen briskets that have all come out relatively decent; not perfect but I'd rate them 7/10 with minor tweaks needed.
> 
> Yesterday, we had friends over and I decided to smoke a 17-pound packer brisket purchased from my local market in Sonoma. It appeared to be well marbled and was trimmed up nicely to 1/3" fat and aerodynamic.
> For reasons I still can't understand, the brisket came out absolutely terrible. It's my biggest failure to date and a waste of $70. The brisket came out like beef jerky. Take away my man card. Take away my smoker. What I did to that piece of beef should be punished it was so awful.
> ...


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## ShanghaiBubba (Oct 25, 2020)

Certainly hope it's mystery solved with the ash issue; however, a couple things I note are: 1. Not sure why you'd go fat side down.  I know people do it, I'm just not sure why and haven't ever considered going there. 2. Usually I try and wrap as soon as I get the bark I need, which is usually at about 6 or 7 hours.  It keeps moisture in, which is very important.  Seems you went a long longer without a wrap hence your meat is losing moisture out into the cooker.  

Point #2 is probably the more important of the two for me, as I know some will swear by fat side down...

KJ


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## FFchampMT (Nov 1, 2020)

BBQBakas said:


> Just got a new thermometer. For the burnt brisket part of the issue was I started the cook before going to bed. Heat must've been spiking all night. I got up to check but didn't take a temp reading...lesson learnt (which rhymes with burnt).



I smoked on a 2013 version of the GMG Daniel Boone for years. I discovered my temp controller was off by a good 30 degrees after I bought an independent thermometer and pit probe. There's also some adjustments you can do with the heat shield that sits above your burn box. Have you ever tried the 'toast test'? 

The toast test is where you set your smoker to 250, let it run a good 20 minutes, then put about 8 pieces of bread down in a grid covering the grates, then check them in 5-10 minutes. You'll probably learn there's hot spots where some of the bread toasts faster than others. The firebox cover should be moved towards the hot spot. I learned no matter what I did, the exhaust side ran about 15 degrees hotter than the pellet box side, so briskets always went with point towards the exhaust.

I also cooked briskets fat down on my GMG because the drip tray is a direct source of radiant heat. Other than that I always used a smoke tube and put on a lavalock gasket on the door and enjoyed it for many years until the auger and motor became unreliable even after a replacement. Now it's parked on the grass and the WSM is my workhorse.


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## BBQBakas (Nov 2, 2020)

FFchampMT said:


> I smoked on a 2013 version of the GMG Daniel Boone for years. I discovered my temp controller was off by a good 30 degrees after I bought an independent thermometer and pit probe. There's also some adjustments you can do with the heat shield that sits above your burn box. Have you ever tried the 'toast test'?
> 
> The toast test is where you set your smoker to 250, let it run a good 20 minutes, then put about 8 pieces of bread down in a grid covering the grates, then check them in 5-10 minutes. You'll probably learn there's hot spots where some of the bread toasts faster than others. The firebox cover should be moved towards the hot spot. I learned no matter what I did, the exhaust side ran about 15 degrees hotter than the pellet box side, so briskets always went with point towards the exhaust.
> 
> I also cooked briskets fat down on my GMG because the drip tray is a direct source of radiant heat. Other than that I always used a smoke tube and put on a lavalock gasket on the door and enjoyed it for many years until the auger and motor became unreliable even after a replacement. Now it's parked on the grass and the WSM is my workhorse.


Thank you for the reply. GMG just pushed out an update to their firmware that's supposed to regulate the heat better. Haven't tried the toast test but that's a great idea!


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## BBQBakas (Nov 2, 2020)

FFchampMT said:


> I smoked on a 2013 version of the GMG Daniel Boone for years. I discovered my temp controller was off by a good 30 degrees after I bought an independent thermometer and pit probe. There's also some adjustments you can do with the heat shield that sits above your burn box. Have you ever tried the 'toast test'?
> 
> The toast test is where you set your smoker to 250, let it run a good 20 minutes, then put about 8 pieces of bread down in a grid covering the grates, then check them in 5-10 minutes. You'll probably learn there's hot spots where some of the bread toasts faster than others. The firebox cover should be moved towards the hot spot. I learned no matter what I did, the exhaust side ran about 15 degrees hotter than the pellet box side, so briskets always went with point towards the exhaust.
> 
> I also cooked briskets fat down on my GMG because the drip tray is a direct source of radiant heat. Other than that I always used a smoke tube and put on a lavalock gasket on the door and enjoyed it for many years until the auger and motor became unreliable even after a replacement. Now it's parked on the grass and the WSM is my workhorse.


BTW, I think I'm going to try the next brisket fat side down to start, but when I wrap it I'm going to put it in a disposable aluminum tin with a cookie rack to lift it off the surface. Someone on this thread suggested the idea to help keep the bottom from burning.


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## tallbm (Nov 2, 2020)

BBQBakas said:


> BTW, I think I'm going to try the next brisket fat side down to start, but when I wrap it I'm going to put it in a disposable aluminum tin with a cookie rack to lift it off the surface. Someone on this thread suggested the idea to help keep the bottom from burning.



The smoke may "ruin" your cookie rack by coating it with a never ending source of creosote.  If thats not an issue for you then go for it, just thought I'd bring it up.

Another option is to put a roasting rack on a disposable aluminum pan to lift it up.  Why do I think this is a good idea? Because rack + pan setups have a TON of use haha.  A brisket may be a little big for a rack but a single pork boat, large chickens, chuck roasts, pork loins, etc are all great fits :)

Something like this is good and is made to fit in or over foil pans.  I own this one and another type of rack that is out of stock:

I tried ribs in it but it didnt work so well with real sized ribs BUT I took wooden kabob skewers an put them through the ribs and that allowed them to stand up instead of lean and things worked better that way :)

You may see how this setup has many applications without ruining cookie or baking sheets in the smoker and u can go disposable very easily, collect juices, and lift meat off the rack :)


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## joetee (Nov 2, 2020)

BBQBakas said:


> BTW, I think I'm going to try the next brisket fat side down to start, but when I wrap it I'm going to put it in a disposable aluminum tin with a cookie rack to lift it off the surface. Someone on this thread suggested the idea to help keep the bottom from burning.


I just did a brisket fat cap down. It came out the best I've ever done. They say put the fat cap toward your heat source. Mine is below. I couldn't tell if had a fat cap when done. The meat on the bottom is usually a little tough from over heating. The heat coming from the lid is no match to heat source.
17# at 245 for 17 hours.


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