# Second try at smoked salmon, better, but not perfect



## crvtt (Mar 24, 2013)

This is my second attempt at smoked salmon.  Used wild Alaskan sockeye from Costco again.   This time I brined them longer (14 hrs) and put more ingredients in the brine (peppercorns, garlic powder, bay leaf, in addition to the salt and sugar).  I stuck them in front of a fan for 2 hours to help for the pellicle and they were in the fridge for 22 hours before smoking.  Much better pellicle this time. My only complaint is the pellicle isn't forming deep down in the center of the fillets, as you can see in the pics.  Not sure what I can do about that other than to give them even more time in the fridge.  These fillets ended up being much more moist and flavorful than my first batch.   The fillets were from the same bag of frozen fillets so it had to have been the longer better brine and better pellicle.  Smoked them with alder and small small piece of cherry in my Smokin in #1 electric smoker. 













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__ crvtt
__ Mar 24, 2013


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## Bearcarver (Mar 24, 2013)

Everybody who tried it loves this one:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/91264/final-smoked-salmon-with-recipe-instructions-and-qview

Bear


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## daveomak (Mar 26, 2013)

crvtt, morning.....  Looks like they were over cooked just a tad....   As soon as you see the fat rise to the surface, take them off.... that should be somewhere close to an IT of 135-138 and the carry over will be about 140-142.....  When you say, "better but not perfect", what is it you are expecting or looking for ??   There are a few of us that have smoked wild salmon for years and hopefully can help you get that "perfect" smoked fish you desire...    

Dave


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## mdboatbum (Mar 26, 2013)

crvtt said:


> My only complaint is the pellicle isn't forming deep down in the center of the fillets, as you can see in the pics.  Not sure what I can do about that other than to give them even more time in the fridge.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. The pellicle, by definition, is a tacky coating _on the surface_ caused by proteins being drawn out and drying. Think of it as shellac. There wouldn't be a pellicle deep down in the center any more than there would be shellac in the center of a piece of wood.

If, as I suspect, you're wondering why your salmon isn't the same texture all the way through like lox, then the answer is that you didn't make lox, you make hot smoked salmon. Completely different thing.

I agree with Dave in that they appear to be a tad overdone. What were your smoker and internal temps?

I'm certainly no salmon expert, but there are a few here (such as Dave), so be patient and they'll get you sorted out and you'll get the product you want.


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## crvtt (Mar 26, 2013)

The center of the filets had some gaps in them, if you see where the white fat leaked out you'll see what I mean.  Rather than being a nice smooth filet the center of them is a little ragged. I pulled at 140 IT and they're nice and moist, I'll pull at 138 next time.  My biggest complaint is the fat leaking out of them still, but maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?


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## daveomak (Mar 26, 2013)

crvtt said:


> The center of the filets had some gaps in them, if you see where the white fat leaked out you'll see what I mean.  Rather than being a nice smooth filet the center of them is a little ragged. I pulled at 140 IT and they're nice and moist, I'll pull at 138 next time.  My biggest complaint is the fat leaking out of them still, but maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?


The fat leaks out because they are over cooked....  At the correct cooking temp, the fat will still be in the layers of meat...

Check your therms, that they are reading correctly....  or your cooking temp was too high and the fat melted too fast...  Just my thoughts....

Salmon is one of those delicate meats that takes practice to cook correctly...  Dave


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## Bearcarver (Mar 26, 2013)

DaveOmak said:


> The fat leaks out because they are over cooked....  At the correct cooking temp, the fat will still be in the layers of meat...
> 
> Check your therms, that they are reading correctly....  or your cooking temp was too high and the fat melted too fast...  Just my thoughts....
> 
> Salmon is one of those delicate meats that takes practice to cook correctly...  Dave


Like Dave said, in one of my original experiments, I had the smoker temps a little too high. That cause the fat to come to the surface. I don't remember what temp that was, because once I got my process perfected, I tossed all of the things that didn't work right.

Bear


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## crvtt (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for the tips, I think you guys figured out my problem for me.   I started them at 7:30 in the morning at 180, around 10:30 they were still in the low 100s so I bumped it up to 200.  We had to leave at noon, ended up cranking it up to 225 and they didn't finish until 11:30.  Next time I'll try to run them at 180 the entire time.   Love this board, so much useful info from everyone, thanks!  Smoked salmon fresh hot out of the smoker may be the most enjoyable thing I've had come out of my smoker thus far.  I really hope to have it perfected by the end of the summer!


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## Bearcarver (Mar 26, 2013)

crvtt said:


> Thanks for the tips, I think you guys figured out my problem for me.   I started them at 7:30 in the morning at 180, around 10:30 they were still in the low 100s so I bumped it up to 200.  We had to leave at noon, ended up cranking it up to 225 and they didn't finish until 11:30.  Next time I'll try to run them at 180 the entire time.   Love this board, so much useful info from everyone, thanks!  Smoked salmon fresh hot out of the smoker may be the most enjoyable thing I've had come out of my smoker thus far.  I really hope to have it perfected by the end of the summer!


You can check the temps I used in the link above in post #2.

You'll notice you can eventually go to 200, but it has to be gradual.

Bear


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## roller (Mar 26, 2013)

crvtt these guys know what they are talking about...I love smoked salmon..


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## kingfishcam (Mar 26, 2013)

I cook to 142 IT, staying at 150 most if the time.  If I am in a time crunch toward the end, I will bump temp to 180.  Have not had fat rendering yet.


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## austinl (Mar 28, 2013)

I think you guys are way-over-complicating hot smoked salmon.  I use a simple marinade overnight because fish is delicate and will take on flavors easily, smoke at a consistent temperature between 180-210F because you cook unevenly when you change the temperature around a lot, remove from smoker when the thickest part of the filet is in the high 130's (typically about 3 hours), and rest wrapped in foil for 25 minutes or so.  I've never had a dry or bland piece of meat, the fat has always been evenly distributed, and the only thing I change is the flavors in the marinade just to play around them; easy!


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## goingcamping (Mar 28, 2013)

Try a dry rub in lieu of the brine...I use 1/2c Kosher salt, 1 cup of brown sugar (and roughly 1 tsp of whatever flavor you're looking for). Coat entire filet and let stand in fridge for 12-24hours. Rinse off rub, coat with honey (you can add whatever flavoring you wish...I like chipotle) I smoke to an IT of 155* @ about a smoker temp of 170-180*. Pull off smoker and let it cool on a drying rack...place in a ziplock bag, let it rest for a few hours with bag open until you're at room temp. Then seal bag (or vacuum seal, if available?) refrigerate over night then enjoy!!!

I have used this recipe for perfect salmon each time!!

~Brett


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## akhap (Apr 1, 2013)

crvtt said:


> This is my second attempt at smoked salmon.  Used wild Alaskan sockeye from Costco again.   This time I brined them longer (14 hrs) and put more ingredients in the brine (peppercorns, garlic powder, bay leaf, in addition to the salt and sugar).  I stuck them in front of a fan for 2 hours to help for the pellicle and they were in the fridge for 22 hours before smoking.  Much better pellicle this time. My only complaint is the pellicle isn't forming deep down in the center of the fillets, as you can see in the pics.  Not sure what I can do about that other than to give them even more time in the fridge.  These fillets ended up being much more moist and flavorful than my first batch.   The fillets were from the same bag of frozen fillets so it had to have been the longer better brine and better pellicle.  Smoked them with alder and small small piece of cherry in my Smokin in #1 electric smoker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sadly, your salmon started out at a disadvantage.  Those breaks down into the flesh are from abuse that happened early in the catching/processing of the salmon, likely in the net-picking.

When animals die the muscles stiffen as adenosine triphosphate (ATP) depletes.  ATP you may remember from biology is how the body does almost everything from storing energy, to moving molecules against concentration gradients, to powering metabolic reactions.  It is pretty powerful stuff at many different levels.

As ATP depletes the muscles contract and flesh becomes "hard", joints stiffen.  

It takes a while for fish to stiffen but when they do they must be left alone until they relax.  When fishing is slow on a set-net site the salmon may remain in the net long enough to stiffen before the net is tended and fish removed.  When those stiff fish are bent in the net it oftens creates problems "shaking them" out of the net.  That bending that happens breaks the muscle connections in the flesh.  The worse the abuse the worse the breaks.

Of course this is only one example of the many ways the fish could have been abused, but abused it was, and during the rigor mortis phase.  I would have a discussion with the Costco fish monger about it...  and I would be shocked if they did not replace the fish...

Brining for 14 hours is WAY out there by commercial standards... It is nearly impossible to have standard strength brines and end up with anything much short of a saltlick after 14 hours.  I use 90 minutes and that is very common in commercial operations, brine salinity dependent...  Extra flavorings seldom make a difference the average taster can even find.  I guarantee longer brine times are NOT an advantage in making better smoked fish.

Dry brines are not magic.  They work but they are far less controlable and erratic.  When they are at their best they are EXACTLY like a wet brine.  At their worst they are great at ruining batches of fish.  I used dry brines exclusively for years and smoked literally tons of fish that way.  It has been at least 15 years since I used a dry rub and I will likely never do it again as there is absolutely no advantage.

There is no way you can form a proper pellicle if the broken sides are flopping against one another down inside the flesh.  The pellicle is a seal on the outside of the fish and impossible to make continuous if the fish is kept in discrete units.  The breaks also created strange thickness units, and increased surface area.  Compounding this by enclosing in a refrigerator with miniimal air movement/exchange is counterproductive to good pellicle formation.  Get lots of dry air moving past your fish and watch the pellicle form.  More refrigerator time is exactly the opposite of where you want to go, IMO&E.

There is nothing in pellicle formation about "drawing proteins to the surface" because the proteins are already there... It is about evaporating a little surface moisture to form a seal or "crust" to help reduce moisture loss.  It is not about making the smoke stick to the flesh, either, but rather, it is about not having the moisture running out of the fish and washing the smoke away.

Then there is the obvious... your fish got too hot, too soon and you cooked off some fats and proteins.  With sockeye that takes hotter than 145F IT.  That moisture lost is not extracelluar water either, but rather water that was part of structural units holding the fish together.  Your temperature probe calibration is suspect...

We like jerky because we can chew on it for a while and the stuff will slowly rehydrate and make a good textural experience possible.  If you make jerky from dried meat the chewing will only make for a more "cardboardy" texture because the basic chemistry will have changed in the cooking process.  If you break open smoked fish and find white freckles between the flakes of meat the moisture has been lost in the meat itself, not just from around the cells.

You do not make better jerky by increasing the temperature.  You do not make better jerky by cooking the water out of it, or getting it hotter.

The same goes with salmon.  This is NOT about preserving the salmon, just cooking it.  If you want to keep it you need to freeze it.

Alder and cherry is a great choice for smoking salmon and my usual starting point with sockeye.

I also strongly disagree with the notion of resting smoked salmon and the math is extremely easy to show it is absurd to think you will get an appreciable rise in IT from resting when reasonable smoker temps are used.


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## Bearcarver (Apr 1, 2013)

AKhap said:


> Sadly, your salmon started out at a disadvantage. Those breaks down into the flesh are from abuse that happened early in the catching/processing of the salmon, likely in the net-picking.
> 
> When animals die the muscles stiffen as adenosine triphosphate (ATP) depletes. ATP you may remember from biology is how the body does almost everything from storing energy, to moving molecules against concentration gradients, to powering metabolic reactions. It is pretty powerful stuff at many different levels.
> 
> ...


Excellent information piece!!!

Bear


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## crvtt (Apr 1, 2013)

All six pieces in my freezer bag from Costco had the same damage to the center of the filet.  I bought a second bag but haven't used any of it yet.  I calibrated my thermometer so I know it's accurate.  I put the probe in the thickest filet, though that was hard to do with all the damage in the center of the fish, probe placement was probably to blame. It was hard to get into the thickest part of the fish because the damage goes pretty far down.  I'm guessing I use a pretty weak brine as this batch wasn't salty at all.  I used 1/4 cup kosher salt, 1/4 cup sugar in 4 1/2 cups of water.   Even though I've yet to perfect my smoked salmon, it's still tasty and at $8.99/lb I'll have to live with damaged fish if that's the way it is as I'm not paying the $15-20/lb wild salmon costs everywhere else in my area.  Thank you for the post, very informative!  I'm going to do my next batch when I have no where to be and just set the smoker to 180 and not fiddle with it.


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## akhap (Apr 2, 2013)

crvtt said:


> All six pieces in my freezer bag from Costco had the same damage to the center of the filet.  I bought a second bag but haven't used any of it yet.  I calibrated my thermometer so I know it's accurate.  I put the probe in the thickest filet, though that was hard to do with all the damage in the center of the fish, probe placement was probably to blame. It was hard to get into the thickest part of the fish because the damage goes pretty far down.  I'm guessing I use a pretty weak brine as this batch wasn't salty at all.  I used 1/4 cup kosher salt, 1/4 cup sugar in 4 1/2 cups of water.   Even though I've yet to perfect my smoked salmon, it's still tasty and at $8.99/lb I'll have to live with damaged fish if that's the way it is as I'm not paying the $15-20/lb wild salmon costs everywhere else in my area.  Thank you for the post, very informative!  I'm going to do my next batch when I have no where to be and just set the smoker to 180 and not fiddle with it.



Brines must be hypertonic (saltier than the flesh) to work.  Your mix is too weak to draw moisture from the fish, give up electrolytes to the fish, and then balance things out to allow limited electrolyte movement deeper into the fish.  Salt and sugar both act as electrolytes.  Weak brine and extended soaking time lead to water-plumped fish, not firmer flesh.  This leads to more difficult pellicle formation.

Commercial smokehouses I have had dealings with use something close to a cup of salt, two cups of brown sugar, and a gallon of water for their basic brine...  It is what I use these days.

I find 180 is too hot for smoking salmon, especially if there is no provision for moving the air inside the smoker and particularly during the early part of the process.  The surface needs to be fairly well set up before the heat may be raised. I leave mine at 150 for the duration.  I tend to do at least 50# at a time and I have done much more.  It is all about texture in the finished product and many, many things affect texture...

I hope this helps.
art


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## kingfishcam (Apr 3, 2013)

I





AKhap said:


> Brines must be hypertonic (saltier than the flesh) to work.  Your mix is too weak to draw moisture from the fish, give up electrolytes to the fish, and then balance things out to allow limited electrolyte movement deeper into the fish.  Salt and sugar both act as electrolytes.  Weak brine and extended soaking time lead to water-plumped fish, not firmer flesh.  This leads to more difficult pellicle formation.
> 
> Commercial smokehouses I have had dealings with use something close to a cup of salt, two cups of brown sugar, and a gallon of water for their basic brine...  It is what I use these days.
> 
> ...


 followed your process Art, and have fantastic results.  Short and simple.


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## akhap (Apr 3, 2013)

Thank you!  I appreciate the trust you put into the fish. ;)


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## akhap (Apr 3, 2013)

kingfishcam said:


> I cook to 142 IT, staying at 150 most if the time.  If I am in a time crunch toward the end, I will bump temp to 180.  Have not had fat rendering yet.



Late in the smoke you can get away with bumping the temperature a bit.  I avoid doing it because you then have to watch it very closely.


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## kingfishcam (Apr 3, 2013)

AKhap said:


> Late in the smoke you can get away with bumping the temperature a bit.  I avoid doing it because you then have to watch it very closely.


Only because I had a time crunch.  Did not hurt the final product.  Wish I still had some..


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