# Need Suggestions for Smoking Cheese in MES40 with AMNPS



## rabbithutch (Apr 25, 2012)

Having lost count of the number of threads I've read about smoking cheese, and not finding a wiki or the information I need with the Advanced Search function, I come to you with hat in hand looking for help. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I bought some cheddar (mild and sharp), some colby, and some mozzarella sticks when I was at the supermarket last week intending to smoke them.  I didn't have a vacuum sealer at the time but Amazon and UPS have since fixed that deficiency.  Now I'm ready to put some cheese in the MES, but I'm very confused by all I've read.  So, here are my questions.

Should I heat the MES at all?  I have no idea what temps I'll get with just the AMNPS alone.
If I "fire" the MES, what temp should I use?  Ambients today are in the 70's.
I plan to remove the chip loader and open the vents all the way.  Is this correct or is there something else I need to know?
What pellets would you suggest?  I have oak, alder, apple, bourbon barrel, and the new one from Todd.
All but the mozzarella sticks are in bricks about 3x1.5x5.  Should I cut them into smaller chunks?  What size?
How long should it take to smoke them?
Should any of the cheeses be done separately or for a shorter period of time?
How will I know when they are ready?  I assume that we don't read ITs for cheese, but I've been wrong before.
What questions should I have asked that I didn't?
I understand that after I take the cheese off the smoke and let them come to ambient temp that I should vacuum seal them and refrigerate for at least 14 days (or 2 weeks, whichever comes first 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





).  Any other finish processing other than the gustatory kind?

TIA

rh


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## redneck69 (Apr 25, 2012)

with the cheese you need no heat at all, you probably should put a pan with some ice on the bottom rack of your smoker.  To help keep the temp down in the chamber so the cheese doesn't melt.  Keep smoke on the cheese for between 2 and 4 hours, vacuum seal when done and keep in the fridge for a few weeks to cure.  If you want to sample some sooner, do a small batch of mozzarella.

here's a link to some i did early this year.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/115477/mixed-batch-of-cheese#post_746525


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## scarbelly (Apr 25, 2012)

rabbithutch said:


> Having lost count of the number of threads I've read about smoking cheese, and not finding a wiki or the information I need with the Advanced Search function, I come to you with hat in hand looking for help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## alelover (Apr 25, 2012)

They got you covered. I smoked some cheese when it was 47ºF out so getting it too cold is not an issue. Unless it freezes of course.


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## rabbithutch (Apr 25, 2012)

OK!  Thanks, guys!

I got the MES out and set it on its lowest temp for about 5 minutes then turned it off.  It got up to about 100*.  I let it cool with the door open to 95* then put the cheese in on the top rack.  I'm doing about a dozen mozz sticks and about a lb each of colby, mild cheddar and sharp cheddar.  I decided to cut the bricks in to ~1x~1xhowever-wide-they-were to get maximum smoke penetration.  I put some Perfect Mix pellets in the AMNPS, spritzed with iso alcohol and lit 'em up with a Bernzomatic.  I'm getting a good smoke about 15 minutes in.  I'm checking the cheese every 10 minutes or so and will put some ice in the water pan at about 20 more minutes.  The danged MES won't let me have a temp reading without turning the heating element on and I don't have another functioning thermo right now.

I got pics on the counter and more in the smoker.  Will continue until done.  If not a complete disaster, I'll post some later.

Again, thanks for the help!


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## smokinhusker (Apr 25, 2012)

Good luck! When my ambient temps are as warm as you are having, I never turn the MES on...makes it too hot and cheese will melt at 80-90* I believe. You are probably gonna need that ice bottle soon. I smoke mine anywhere from 2.5-4 hrs depending on how much smoke and color I want. 

If you have the remote for the MES, just hit the on button and you will get the temp of the cabinet and then I turn it off...that's how I check mine!

Let us know how it comes out.


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## rabbithutch (Apr 25, 2012)

UPDATE:

I just checked on the cheese and I had lost TBS.  First time that has ever happened to me with the AMNPS.  It is a tiny bit windy today; so I put the chip loader back in the chute and pulled it out only about 2" and lit the pellets again.  I had a good yellow-orange flame on the first coupla inches of pellets when I closed the door.  TBS has returned but will check again in a few minutes to be sure.  No ice yet.  Cheese is still firm and not even sweating.


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## rabbithutch (Apr 26, 2012)

FINISH

Thanks to Scarbelly, Alelover, Alesia, and Redneck, I got my  first cheese smoke attempt behind me today.

This first pic shows the cheese before it was re-sized for the smoker.  Mozz sticks are obvious.  The back left is mild cheddar,

the middle is sharp cheddar, and the front is Colby long before they saw the smoker.  Here they were coming up to room temp

after having been in the fridge.







Here we see it after making smaller chunks.  Toothpics help me keep track of what's what.  2 means mild cheddar; 1 is sharp cheddar

and none is colby.







Here you see the rack going into the top position in the MES40.  Notice that I thought better of the arrangement for the mozz

and laid it across the rails lest it shrink and fall through.  At this point the unit was reading 95* with the door open.   I then lit

My AMNPS with the Perfect Mix #2 pellets and got them going.  I removed the chip tray and left the loader out of the unit.

This was a mistake because I came back about 25 minutes later and there was no TBS.  Apparently the slight gusty wind

we had today was too much for good smoke.  I re-lit the pellets and had the first couple of inches with an orange flame and

put it back into the MES on the rails at the left of the element - down low.  I put the chute loader in and left it standing about

an inch or 2 from the closed position.  Ten minutes later the TBS was flowing.







Here they are after about a 4 hour smoke.  Didn't pay too much attention to time; however, one row of the pellets

was all I used and they were all turned to ash.  No peeking.  No opening the door until I took out this rack. 

You can see that the inital temp was too high and that I should have used no heat except the AMNPS; however, I had

no reliable thermometer on hand to read so I though I'd warm the smoker a bit then open it and let it cool down.  When

I saw the cheese wilting I put a pan full of ice cubes on the rack above the element which by this time had been turned

off for a while.  I then forgot about what was happening for a few hours.  When I saw that I had used up all the pellets and

the time had been between 3 and 4 hours, I just let them sit until I finished up a couple of other chores.







This shot shows what the early temp did to the Colby.  I got a lot less of the melting over the rack rails on the cheddar.

This tells me that either Colby is more sensitive or that the right side was getting more heat. The exhaust stack was

less than 6 inches above these pieces.  Next time I WILL NOT WARM THE MES AT ALL.  I thought it would give me

a baseline temp and that knowing where I started if I left the door open for 20 minutes or so that all would be well.

Apparently the racks absorbed some heat and retained it for quite a while, probably stopping when I put a pan of ice in.







Here you see my first attempt to vacuum pack the cheese.  I bought a $20 Deni sealer from Amazon.  I think I'm going

to send it back.  The bags are way to light weight.  Applying vacuum then sealing seemed to be working but I noticed that 

air had already crept in by the time I got them to the fridge.  I will check them several times over the next few days and

get pics to see if they bloat up instead of staying sucked up.  Looks like when you spend cheap you get cheap.







There is now a mark on the calendar for May 10 saying that the smoked cheese aging is complete.

Will have to wait until then to give you a taste report.

Thanks to all who so generously read my plea for help and gave me the information I needed.  I think I'll do some more cold

smoking with better cheeses, no initial warm up, ice from the get go and 2 rows of pellets to give me a longer smoke - next time!

Thanks for staying tuned.  Your regular programming will resume shortly.

-rh


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't want to hurt your feelings but I'm wondering why you turned on the Heat when all the responding members said it is not needed even if the outside temp was 47*F? No big deal and a good lesson learned. Looks like you are going to have some great Cheese...JJ


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## smokinhusker (Apr 26, 2012)

Good looking cheese! I had some melt a bit like yours and I shredded it!


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## redneck69 (Apr 26, 2012)

looks good, i also had my 1st batch melt just a bit like yours.  That's when i started putting in a pan of ice to help cool the chamber.  Great Job


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## rabbithutch (Apr 26, 2012)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> I don't want to hurt your feelings but I'm wondering why you turned on the Heat when all the responding members said it is not needed even if the outside temp was 47*F? No big deal and a good lesson learned. Looks like you are going to have some great Cheese...JJ


Howdy JJ!

There ain't no hurt left in my feelings at my age!

I was futzing around with the MES trying to see if there was any way I could use the built in sensor to tell me the temps inside the box.  Like hiding my own Easter eggs, I've managed to hide my temp probes for my Maverick and my Acu-Rite from myself.  I was hoping that I could get the control unit to display the temp.  No joys!  The only way I could make the temp sensor display was to turn the unit on.  I only left it on for a minute or 2 at the lowest setting, 100*, and I had the door open; but the ambient was in the 80's and it heated the box up pretty fast before I got it turned off.  I really, REALLY wish that MES would make a better control unit, one that would allow you to take temp readings without causing the heating element to come on, one that could be set to about 80*, one that would let you control the cut-off point with only the time and only the temp not requiring that you set both before the element will heat.

I've marked it up to a learning experience.


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## s2k9k (Apr 26, 2012)

I know there are a lot of factors involved but on average what would be the maximum temperature you could smoke cheese at?


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## alelover (Apr 26, 2012)

It looks like he was at the max. The cheese should be really good. It looks good. You really want to keep it below 90 if you can. The one I did was at 47º JJ. Not his. Whenever I had a cold day I would try to get some cheese smoked. At least you didn't go this far.


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## redneck69 (Apr 26, 2012)

S2K9K said:


> I know there are a lot of factors involved but on average what would be the maximum temperature you could smoke cheese at?


really don't see a point to adding any heat to the cheese when it is smoked, it will absorb the "smoky" goodness while it is vacuum sealed in your fridge for a few weeks


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## rabbithutch (Apr 26, 2012)

I agree with Redneck.  You won't need any heat.  If the ambient temps are in the 80's, you might even need to add ice to cool it a bit.


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## s2k9k (Apr 26, 2012)

redneck69 said:


> really don't see a point to adding any heat to the cheese when it is smoked, it will absorb the "smoky" goodness while it is vacuum sealed in your fridge for a few weeks


I didn't really mean add any heat, I guess I should have been more clear with my question, but just the max temp inside the smoker, ambient temp plus any heat added by the smoke. I live in SE Ga and the ambient temps aren't ever very low but it does cool off at night so that's what I meant by max temp. I've nevcer smoked cheese and it interests me so I am just trying to figure out if I can even try it down here in this high heat high humidity climate we have.


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## rabbithutch (Apr 26, 2012)

Check the temperature inside your smoker overnight.  If it's above 80*F, it's probably too hot.  That is surely to be the case in GA in the summertime; so try putting ice in the smoker and checking the temp.  Use enough ice to cover one rack or maybe a little more.  Check temps for 3, 4, 5 hours and see how quick it drops.  Finally, do a dry run with your smoke source and ice.  Check those temps over a period of time, too.  This will tell you about how much the smoke source adds to the equation.

Of course, I jumped right in with both feet and got mixed results.  Too impatient, I guess; but I learned that I can probably control the temp inside my MES with ambient temp is in the 80s, holding it low enough to smoke cheese using pellets in an AMNPS.

I think that the answer to "how high" is probably in the 80-90* range inside your smoker.  In reading up before I did mine, I saw where people use a tray of chips outside of a cardboard box with a tube running to the box and sealed with tape.  The cheese goes inside the box.  I suspect, however, that they live above the Mason-Dixon line or used the method during the winter.

FWIW, here in TX we had 90 days of triple digits last summer with 43 in a row (IIRC).  I don't think I could have got the inside of an MES below 90*F with anything less than a meat locker chiller.  And don't tell me it was a dry heat.  Hell all heat that high is dry 'cause all the wet is burnt out of it.


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## moikel (Apr 26, 2012)

My best results are with MES off,& ice in the tray after first hour,harder style cheeses.Keep AMZPS at very bottom cheese at very top.Apple pellets mostly.Warm,humid climate here. Surprising how hot it gets with only AMZPS .I sometimes even open the door & leave it until I  get temp done to 24c. I have had some great results lately with sheep milk cheese's pecorino etc.I just allow one row of AMZPS turn them once. Personal taste the real decider on type of cheese I have a lot of Italian ,Greek & Spanish cheese on my doorstep so I  go with those.


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## s2k9k (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks Rabbit, I might have a few more weeks with below 80* temps at night then it will have to wait til fall. So I'm taking it that 80* is probably a good cut off temp.


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## ronrude (Apr 26, 2012)

I smoked mine this spring in my weber grill and amnps at 35*F.   No issue with flavor.  I moved over to the MES for warmer weather.


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 27, 2012)

rabbithutch said:


> Howdy JJ!
> 
> There ain't no hurt left in my feelings at my age!
> 
> ...


 Well that makes perfect sense. I totally agree, Masterbuilt could easily modify the unit to power the senors with out the coil being on. Thanks for responding...JJ


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 27, 2012)

S2K9K said:


> Thanks Rabbit, I might have a few more weeks with below 80* temps at night then it will have to wait til fall. So I'm taking it that 80* is probably a good cut off temp.


 I would say even at 80*F you will need Ice. I smoke Cheese last month during an unusually warm weekend it was 70*F. After 3 hours the top shelf, where the cheese was, hit 100*F and the Cheddar started to soften. It appears the AMNPS was raising the temp 10* per hour. I understand Dust burns cooler and can be used in the AMNPS as well as Pellets.

Now I have read that many people put Ice in the Water Pan or on a lower rack in the MES but based on the design of the early 1900's Ice Boxes, it would make more sense to me to put a few 1 liter bottles of Ice on the Top Shelf and the Cheese farther down. It seems the temp near the AMNPS will not be as great as that which rises and accumulates, over time, at the top. I have not tested ice at the top since the lower racks in my MES were loaded with Bacon and I could not move the Cheese. I put Ice in the Water Pan and it made no difference in the temp at the top. What do y'all think?...JJ


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## s2k9k (Apr 27, 2012)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> I would say even at 80*F you will need Ice. I smoke Cheese last month during an unusually warm weekend it was 70*F. After 3 hours the top shelf, where the cheese was, hit 100*F and the Cheddar started to soften. It appears the AMNPS was raising the temp 10* per hour. I understand Dust burns cooler and can be used in the AMNPS as well as Pellets.
> 
> Now I have read that many people put Ice in the Water Pan or on a lower rack in the MES but based on the design of the early 1900's Ice Boxes, it would make more sense to me to put a few 1 liter bottles of Ice on the Top Shelf and the Cheese farther down. It seems the temp near the AMNPS will not be as great as that which rises and accumulates, over time, at the top. I have not tested ice at the top since the lower racks in my MES were loaded with Bacon and I could not move the Cheese. I put Ice in the Water Pan and it made no difference in the temp at the top. What do y'all think?...JJ


That makes a lot of sense Jimmy. Heat rises so if the ice is at the bottom it won't be as likely to cool off the top. I've done some testing of my GOSM and it runs about 5* warmer on the top rack than the bottom rack. I like the 1 or 2 liter bottle idea too, I was thinking cubes and was thinking how fast they would melt, but a large mass would last a lot longer.


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## redneck69 (Apr 27, 2012)

S2K9K said:


> That makes a lot of sense Jimmy. Heat rises so if the ice is at the bottom it won't be as likely to cool off the top. I've done some testing of my GOSM and it runs about 5* warmer on the top rack than the bottom rack. I like the 1 or 2 liter bottle idea too, I was thinking cubes and was thinking how fast they would melt, but a large mass would last a lot longer.


I used a larger disposable pan filled with ice on the bottom shelf and had no issues with upper rack getting to hot


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## s2k9k (Apr 27, 2012)

What was the outside temperature?


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## redneck69 (Apr 27, 2012)

S2K9K said:


> What was the outside temperature?


it was actually snowy and blowing outside, so i did this at work inside our shop with a vent blowing the smoke out a window,  the temp in the shop was around 80 degrees or so. i used my saw dust burning AMS to put out the flavor.


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 27, 2012)

redneck69 said:


> it was actually snowy and blowing outside, so i did this at work inside our shop with a vent blowing the smoke out a window,  the temp in the shop was around 80 degrees or so. i used my saw dust burning AMS to put out the flavor.


 It is nice to have a Warm place to smoke when it's Cold. I used an AMNPS with Pellets, it is my understanding the Dust generates less heat, so I can see where the Ice on the bottom shelf did the job for you. I tried Ice in the Water Pan, bottom shelf, but was no help...JJ


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## eman (Apr 29, 2012)

I just smoked 4 blocks of Black diamond cheddar. AMNPS , pitmaster blend pellets, removed the chip loader and chip drawer. Ambient temp was 85 degrees. Since this is not just regular cheese and my racks don't look clean and shiny after 2 + years ,i put a paper towel on the top rack and set the cheese on it. Real good TBS and burned 2 1/2 inches of one row in a bit over 2 hours. MES was not plugged in and in the shade .didn';t use any ice and had no melting at all.


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## redneck69 (Apr 30, 2012)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> It is nice to have a Warm place to smoke when it's Cold. I used an AMNPS with Pellets, it is my understanding the Dust generates less heat, so I can see where the Ice on the bottom shelf did the job for you. I tried Ice in the Water Pan, bottom shelf, but was no help...JJ


i've actually used my MES 40 at work numerous times for work function, and lunch's..the last time i did 4 pork shoulders and the new car manager wasn't very happy with me since i did not share..lol..my service manager did buy one of the shoulders from me, which covered 1/2 my purchase price of everything i smoked that day.


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## chowderpants (May 5, 2012)

S2K9K said:


> That makes a lot of sense Jimmy. Heat rises so if the ice is at the bottom it won't be as likely to cool off the top. I've done some testing of my GOSM and it runs about 5* warmer on the top rack than the bottom rack. I like the 1 or 2 liter bottle idea too, I was thinking cubes and was thinking how fast they would melt, but a large mass would last a lot longer.


Its better to think that HOT AIR rises, not heat. My thoughts of having the ice on the bottom would be that it cools the air coming from the chip loader over the AMPS, making for a cooler smoke. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to throw a frozen water bottle up top as well if the ambient temps are on the warm side.

Just my 2 cents


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## moikel (May 8, 2012)

I found that it was hot directly above the point on the AMZPS that was burning even with cheese at very top AMZPS  very bottom,so 1 cheese was sagging ,one next not .Once I  filled water tray with ice & put it on bottom shelf the smoke went up to tray then spread out after it hit cold metal of tray.

Solved my problem .I am in much warmer climate than a lot of forum members people  here start bitching once it gets below 10c overnight. Tshirt weather in Nebraska


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## roller (Sep 20, 2012)

alelover said:


> It looks like he was at the max. The cheese should be really good. It looks good. You really want to keep it below 90 if you can. The one I did was at 47º JJ. Not his. Whenever I had a cold day I would try to get some cheese smoked. At least you didn't go this far.


LMAO !!!


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## jarhead (Sep 21, 2012)

Alelover, Don't do em this way either.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 That was 6 pounds to start.













DeadCheeseSmall.jpg



__ jarhead
__ Sep 21, 2012


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## scarbelly (Sep 21, 2012)

Roller said:


> LMAO !!!


This was actually done be a former member and posted on another site. Man he took a ribbing - it was everyone's avatar for a while


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## jarhead (Sep 21, 2012)

This was my first go around with the AMNTS and the freezer.

I think it got a touch hot.


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