# A Question for You Welders



## rabbithutch (Sep 20, 2012)

There are so many talented and experienced welders here who have done such beautiful work building smokers that I am truly humbled.  I have never welded anything, but I like to piddle and learn new skills which I can sometimes use around the place.  I've been toying with the idea of getting a small shop welder.  I've read enough to be very confused about welding.  There's TIG and MIG and electric arc and argon gas (and probably other gases) and they seem to come in all kinds of sizes, shapes and costs.

I want to learn more before I decide whether to spend any money.  Do any of you guys know of a good forum for welders where a wannabe will be accepted and tolerated while he asks a thousand foolish questions?  You know.  A place like SMF but for those who want to learn more about welding?

Thanks for listening.


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## ribwizzard (Sep 20, 2012)

Ive seen one for Hobart welders, I'll look for it.

But im sure there are plenty of people on here that can help,


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## ribwizzard (Sep 20, 2012)

Is your question really; What kind of welder should I buy?

What you have to think about is what kind of projects do you see yourself doing. What kind of metals will you be working with.

Give us a run down of what you would like to be able to do and what price range your looking to stay in, and Im sure we can all pitch in and steer you in the right direction.


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## jsdspif (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm watching this thread . I've been looking into getting a mig and I don't know how to weld . I did stick welding when I was about 12 years old but nothing else . One thing I did just look into was a no interest if you pay it off by Jan. 2014 . If  you miss a monthly minimum payment or if you don't pay it off in full 30% interest is added to your bill from the time you first purchased the welder . I trust myself to make the min. and pay off in full but I wouldn't put it past the credit card people to say a payment wasn't on time , so I'm not going that route .I've been reading a lot of welding forums lately and there ar so many different opinions . I mean this forum everyone seems te be a fairly cohesive bunch , we all think good smoked foods are good and we don't have a big "electric is best , hardwood is best " type thing , but the welding forums have a lot of different opinions . I had thought about posting a question like this on this forum , I just never did . So this topic will be of interest to myself.


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## rabbithutch (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks for the responses!

First, since our SMF family is all about smoking and food, I was a bit reluctant to start a thread on welding and all I need to learn to get into it a little.  That's why I asked about a forum so that I wouldn't clutter up the place around here.  

Next, I know so little about welding that I'm not sure I could properly say what it is that I want to do.  I would like to be able to make things from steel racks and braces and things and I would like to be able to repair a broken weld or replace it.  I don't have much money to spend but I don't want to waste it on cheap stuff that doesn't have enough juice to use satisfactorily.

I see little Hobart and Miller welders that run on 120AC or 240AC.  I think these are MIG wire welders but I have no idea what that means.  Also, there is a new brand called Everlast  (I think) that I've seen lately.  Are any of these brands I should look for or avoid?  

Yes, I would probably like just to take $325 and go buy a FrizzleFaderFantastic that will run on 120AC, but I'd like to learn a bit before I do that, too.

Again, thanks for your generous responses.  I know that my questions are too uneducated to give you much to go on, but I'm hopeful that I'll learn a bit from you and/or from web sites you can send me to.


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## oldschoolbbq (Sep 20, 2012)

Hi, Bob. Sure wish I still lived there in "T" town. I was a welder on Sante Fe RR for years , and could help you learn some.

The welding you will most likely be doing could be done with a small wire feed MIG unit , 110v . You can get flux core wire and not need the gas to protect the arc.

Stop in at one of the welding shops and talk to the welders , they'll lead you right. Ben's Welding (if still there) is a good start.

Have fun and...


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## rabbithutch (Sep 20, 2012)

oldschoolbbq said:


> Hi, Bob. Sure wish I still lived there in "T" town. I was a welder on Sante Fe RR for years , and could help you learn some.
> 
> The welding you will most likely be doing could be done with a small wire feed MIG unit , 110v . You can get flux core wire and not need the gas to protect the arc.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Stan!

I hadn't thought about visiting a local shop.


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## boykjo (Sep 20, 2012)

Hey RH... I would recommend this forum   http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/forum.php    Great bunch of people to answer your questions... I would recommend you start out with a 220v unit. I have a lot of  expensive welding equipment and  My most used piece is a  hobart handler 180  and does a great job and isnt too  expensive... swing on over to weldtalk and join and introduce yourself... they will be happy to point you in the right direction

Joe


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## woodcutter (Sep 20, 2012)

I agree with boykjo about the 220v unit. I'm not an expert welder but I bought a Hobart 110 wire feed. It welds and works very good but only on 3/16" steel and down. I didn't realize how much stuff I want weld that is 1/4" or bigger. Wished I would have went the 220v route.


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## JckDanls 07 (Sep 20, 2012)

One more vote for the 220v wire feed...    Joe (Boykjo) has ya going in the right direction...  Also you will find life a lot easier if you make sure your metal is clean when welding with a wire feed...  clean of rust and paint...


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## sound1 (Sep 20, 2012)

X3 on the 220v.  You can always crank it down for the smaller stuff. If you have only stick welded, you're going to love the wire feed.


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## s2k9k (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm no expert but have done a good bit of welding. There are many different kinds of welding and they all have their place. There are many different welders and they all have their opinions, my brother has TIG'ed for probably 30 years so he would say TIG is the only way to go. But I think for a good all around general purpose welder the MIG is the way to go. It can do almost anything and is very easy to learn, it is basically just point and shoot. Pull the trigger and you are welding. TIG is great and very strong and can make some beautiful welds but it takes a lot of practice, but once you got it you got it! But MIG is so easy and from the the little you said it sounds basically like just some spot welding or quick repairs and the MIG would suit that just perfect. I agree with going 220V over 110V for the extra power you will get for the heavy jobs, and if you can go with the gas in your budget that would be a plus. 

Whatever you decide on get a bunch of scrap metal and practice before you try and lay a bead down on something you want to keep!


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## daveomak (Sep 21, 2012)

X4 on the 220v MIG....  Looks like they are all about $800....  Add a gas bottle and extra wire.... An auto darkening hood... gloves etc....  and the most important piece of equipment if you are older like myself.....  A pair of reading glasses from the store... full lens glasses that allow you to see clearly at 18" or so.... bifocals don't work.... you need to see the puddle clearly.... Just something I found as my eyesight slowly changed over the years....  If you can't see the puddle, you are screwed...    Dave


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## bluffton smoker (Sep 21, 2012)

RH - I am about 1 1/2 hours south from you on Lake Buchanan. I have a world of free time and have a Lincoln 180 220v MIG welder. (I found it on Craigslist NEW for only $450.)

I used to use a stick (arc) welder years ago. I can show you what you need to know in about 20 minutes. Bring a hood and we will burn a little wire. Lemme know...  Either way, go with a 220 volt machine. The little 110v machines have such a short duty-cycle, you won't be sorry.


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## rdknb (Sep 21, 2012)

I agree on the mig welding, also check the adult ed schools, many have welding classes


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## bluffton smoker (Sep 21, 2012)

If I was looking again, I'd look at both MIG (wire feed) and ARC (stick) and purchase the most I could get for the money. There's times while building my smoker that I wished I had a stick welder. I am NOT a pro Welder by any stretch of the imagination. Just my $.02


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## ribwizzard (Sep 21, 2012)

Ok,

Wanted to get a little info from you before I put my two cents in.

Go to lincoln electric site and check out POWER MIG[emoji]174[/emoji] 180 Dual MIG Welder - K3018-2,

I wont go into why I think the Lincoln welders are the best in this class of welder, but if you did your homework and compaired feature to feature on all of the models (like I do) you'll probably agree. The owners manuals will walk you through all the steps of setting it up and even give you welding techniqes. Videos are also available and I know lincoln includes them on some of the models.

A dual power input capable modle like this is handy to have, being able to weld anywhere you have a 120 outlet, but also can enjoy the duty cycle of 220 amp service will give you.

Most brands will give you everything you need to add a cylinder of sheilding gas down the road, and you eventually will want it. But you dont have to have it to start learning, and the flux core wire is more forgiving if you have a litttle rust or paint on what your trying to weld.

I would not recomend stick welders for what you were looking to do with it.

Tig is going to be much more expensive to start out with.


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## ribwizzard (Sep 21, 2012)

And no, I do not own that model,  just took the time to do a little research and  thought it would be the best bang for the buck for what your doing.  My shop has two millers and three lincoln electric welders.  The millers are preatier, but the lincolns put out the better bead. Dont know what it is.


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## rabbithutch (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks to all!  I'm thinking that 220VAC TIG is gonna fit my pistol, but I've got a lot of research to do to find out about the different brands and dual input units.

Bluffton Smoker, I might take you up on that offer to spend some time one afternoon.  I'm looking at the possibility of a second trip to the hospital due to some crappy infection; so doesn't look like I can head your way anytime soon..

Again, thanks to all responders.  I now have enough to research to learn about MIG vs. TIG vs. stick vs gas.  Might even find an evening class somewhere.


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## daveomak (Sep 23, 2012)

rh, morning....  TIG give the strongest welds.....   It is slow to weld with....  It also takes 2 hands and welding rod in the second hand to feed the puddle... You can weld 2 snuff can lids together with TIG....

MIG, you can weld one handed... has the wire feed in your welding hand.... you can weld 1/2" metal with a small gun with multiple passes...   

I have all three welders... TIG, MIG and Stick....  My go to is the MIG for  production work... TIG for thin stainless.... and Stick when I take my welder out into the field to repair some piece of farm equipment that has broken down...   

I have a Lincoln 175 square wave TIG...  A Miller Trailblazer that is Stick and MIG, and it also is a home generator for those days without electricity......   and a Hypertherm Plasma Torch....  I guess I have all the toys.... I love welding toys.... Oh yeah and Oxy-Acetylene also...  

Get them all and you will find you time in the shop will increase and it will be more fun.....   Dave


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## shoneyboy (Sep 23, 2012)

2X on getting with you local vocational school, that way you can get a little more safe/correct training. I’m not saying that you can’t do it, but getting a little direction from someone with experience will go a long ways…..It will give you better information and better understanding on what tools and equipment you will need to do what you want……See if they would allow you a few hours of practice time with there equipment, that way you know what to expect when you are looking to buy your own……


RdKnB said:


> I agree on the mig welding, also check the adult ed schools, many have welding classes


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## bluffton smoker (Sep 23, 2012)

Rabbit,

Sorry to hear about yer infection... Bad enuff to go to the hospital??? That IS bad. Just gimme a few days notice and we will make it happen...


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## JckDanls 07 (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm still going with the MIG to start out with... So much easier than TIG...  As Dave said with the TIG both your hands are occupied..  with MIG you have a free hand to hold a piece with while you tack it in place...  just my petty 2 cents


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## boykjo (Sep 23, 2012)




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## JckDanls 07 (Sep 23, 2012)

That's TOOOOOOO   funny...   still trying to figure out what he said


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## ribwizzard (Sep 24, 2012)

_"" I don't have much money to spend but I don't want to waste it on cheap stuff that doesn't have enough juice to use satisfactorily."""_

I was going by what you said about price range and what you wanted to do with it.    Tig is cool , but ours rarely gets used,   Mig is the most practicle welder to start with.


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## shoneyboy (Sep 24, 2012)

boykjo said:


>


I'd hire him !!! I'd bet he's done it twice before he's ever seen the job.......LOL


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## okiedave (Sep 24, 2012)

RdKnB said:


> I agree on the mig welding, also check the adult ed schools, many have welding classes


What he said.  Definitely take a basic welding class at your local vo-tech.  I took a course in the evenings last summer; for $250, I learned a heck of a lot.  Definitely kept me from making a lot of expensive mistakes.

Incidentally, MIG, TIG, and stick are all types of arc welding.  Argon is a shielding gas used in MIG and TIG; the other major kind of non-industrial welding is oxy-fuel (oxygen-acetylene, oxygen-propane).

Definitely get the 220VAC welder.  110VAC just can't provide the power to penetrate in thick metals, which is what you want to use in a smoker build.  You don't need something that will weld full-thickness in a single pass; a unit that will do 3/8" single pass is expensive.  I know, I bought one.  Making multiple passes is an option.

Most importantly, 90% of a good weld is in the prep work.  If the fit-up isn't good, or the metal is dirty, or you choose the wrong kind of electrode, you're not going to get a good weld, no matter how much money you throw at equipment.


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## rabbithutch (Sep 24, 2012)

I LOVE that commercial!

I can't stop replaying it!


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## okiedave (Sep 24, 2012)

...and I completely forgot to answer one of your questions.  Check out http://www.weldingweb.com; I've learned an awful lot there.


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## sunman76 (Sep 25, 2012)

yep 220 mig with a mixed gas c02/agron is the way to go.  I have a hobart 180 that I have used and abused and it still runs like new.

Mig is the easiest to learn and user friendly.


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## bluffton smoker (Sep 25, 2012)

I have a buddy who purchased a Hobart 180 years ago, and he did NOT treat it too gentle and it is rock solid.

IMHO ---> There are 3 brands of welders I would buy without concern about the quality AND have parts/accessories readily available. 

In this Order.

Miller (High quality, but a bit too pricey for what I do)
Lincoln (High quality, solid machine)
Hobart (Not quite the quality of the Miller or Lincoln, but a solid machine)


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## badbob (Sep 25, 2012)

RH, I'd take BS up on his offer. I have a 220v Lincoln stick welder and was having a hard time with it because I only had a book for reference (no Youtube back then). A friend came by and laughed at my "mud daubing" and said that since he "could weld water" he'd give me some pointers. Thirty minutes of watching and listening to him was all it took. After that it's just practice. Hope this helped


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## urbanredneck (Sep 25, 2012)

Lot's of good advice here- I started welding about 2 years ago now, and went through a lot of the same questions- first machine that I got rid of was a little 110v harbor freight special- did flux core only and was pretty messy- I moved onto a Lincoln MIG setup- great little welder, but then I decided I needed a plasma cutter 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  As others have mentioned, it's pretty addictive once you get rolling.  Did some digging around on that front, and found a machine on ebay that did 110v or 220v, plasma, TIG, and stick- picked it up primarily for the plasma capability, but after messing with it for a few months, really started to dig TIG and stick, which led me to sell the Lincoln.  Would have liked to keep both machines, but just couldn't justify the sunk cash into the hobby, or the space in the garage!  

Not saying it's the right way to go by any stretch, but if you want to have a small, non-production shop, it gets you a fair amount of bang for the buck.  I definitely miss the MIG setup when I'm running longer welds, but you get to where you can move pretty good on TIG or stick once you get used to it.

Also, make sure you get the next size bigger tank than you think you'll need if you go MIG or TIG- never fails that you start to run low late on a Saturday afternoon after the shops closed and you can't get anymore gas to work the rest of the weekend- that's also where you'll want to have some flux core or sticks on hand just in case!

E


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## rubbin butts (Sep 25, 2012)

*Rabbit, visit your local welding supply store, tell him your plans and I'll bet he has some used machines that he will let you try before you buy. But stick with the big three Lincoln, Miller, or Hobart and preferably in that order. For a beginner, mig is the way to go. Also if you later want to weld aluminum as well as steel get what they call a push-pull machine, more money but incredibly handy. With tig also you can weld aluminum, but heavier steel is a real pain. I have owned a fabrication shop for the past 25 years and in my early years worked as a boilermaker, and my order of preference as to welder type has always been mig, stick, and then tig. That is since mig welders came out, prior to that was only stick.*

*Good luck at whatever you decide.*


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## ribwizzard (Sep 26, 2012)

On small Mig units , cant beat the Lincoln.  What am I basing that on? Well, lets just say my company is the largest consumer of welding products in Florda!


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## LanceR (Sep 26, 2012)

Here's a site I've liked and have referred a number of others to.  Lots of good videos and articles.  He has a weekly video you can sign up for.

weldingtipsandtricks.com

One thing I don't think I saw in any replies yet is anything about where you are going to work.  MIG (GMAW) and TIG are not very easy to use around breezes due to the shielding gas blowing away from the weld puddle.  Flux core wire and stick welding are far more forgiving in drafty work spaces.

TIG is a lot harder to use out of position than MIG or stick welding, especially for beginners, due to needing to be in a posture that lets you maneuver two hands, the torch and filler rod around the joint.  If your project is small enough to flip around to get the joint flat (or close to flat) it may not be a big deal but picture yourself laying on your side reaching up at angle to weld a seam. 

If you are going to have to run a new electrical circuit to power the welder go bigger than you think you need if the budget allows it.  Just like sizing the welder, nothing is worse than having to abandon the new circuit in a year or two because it is too small for your growing needs.  And they will grow...(don't ask)

I know enough about welding to know that I don't know enough about welding but as others have said, the little 120V suitcase MIG welder we have that has been great for auto body work and light fabrication is too small for bigger projects so I'm shopping for a bigger MIG unit.  A lot bigger.

For stick welders we have a Lincoln Ranger 8 (gas engine), a Lincoln AC-DC 225/125 (AKA the buzz box or tombstone) and the oldest son had a Lincoln SA-200 pipeline welder for big stuff.

The buzz box is a good starting point if you are looking for a stick welder.  With a bit of patience you'll likely find one on Craigslist in the $250 range and they are pretty bulletproof. Just be sure to get the AC/DC one for the extra versatility.

For a MIG welder I'd be sure to pick one for which you can get local parts and service.  With only one machine any parts or service related issue means you are at a standstill and it is a lot easier to grab what you need locally that wait for the slow boat from China for a part.

Good luck and thanks for the tread.  I'm sure others are learning from it, too.

Lance


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## boykjo (Sep 26, 2012)

rabbithutch said:


> There are so many talented and experienced welders here who have done such beautiful work building smokers that I am truly humbled. I have never welded anything, but I like to piddle and learn new skills which I can sometimes use around the place. I've been toying with the idea of getting a small shop welder. I've read enough to be very confused about welding.  .


Now that we have explained everything I bet your really confused now...... LOL ..... Hobart, Miller, Lincoln, Esab are all good welders and I would recommend any of them. Its a matter of preference.... They all do a great job..... Just stay away from the off brands like Century, Chicago electric, Campbell-Housfeld........ Remember, If you want to learn how to weld. Practice, practice,practice practice,practice, practice, practice,practice..............

Good luck

Joe


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## ribwizzard (Sep 26, 2012)

I was trying not to overwelm you with too much info, But just steer you into the right direction for what you said you wanted to do. Most of the people that have posted on this thread have given you very good advise. Its all a lot to think about. Most of it can not be understood until you actually start welding and try to do a fender patch with .035 flux core or try to weld in the wind on a rusty hitch back on a trailer just to get it up to your shop and all you have is .025 solid.

There is not one machine , one type of wire, or one welding process that is perfect for every application.

But a good quallity welder, and the most versatle set up, and the easiest to learn on, and easiest to get parts for, and has the ability to add shielding gas down the road, or a spool gun to weld aluminum, is the little lincoln welder I told you about, and with it being on sale with a free auto darkening hood at the price they are showing,  I really cant see how you could go wrong. You can plug it into 120 outlet and start welding right away, or convert it to 220 for more duty cycle and up to 1/2" steel. Go from flux core to solid wire in just minutes,  If you need tips or leads or anything, just run up to Home depot on sunday and get them. And they are cheap. Everyone sells parts for them. They make and sell more of these type of welders than anyone out there.


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## rabbithutch (Sep 26, 2012)

You guys have given me a great deal to think about.  I especially appreciate the information about brands.  I have been aware of Miller, Lincoln and Hobart all my life, but I've never used them.  They area the names I've seen on welders in shops that I've had work done in.

I'm still looking for an adult education class to take.  I think that learning the feel of MIG, TIG and maybe even stick welding will help me decide what I want to invest in.  I don't plan to start a business at the age of 70.  I'm just looking to add another tool to my bag of tricks.  I really wish I had scratched this itch 40 years ago.

Thank you very much for taking the time to start my education.


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## smokey mo (Feb 2, 2013)

So I just found this thread cruising through the site.  I was right were you are two years ago.  I had always wanted to weld but didnt have anyone to lean on with that dream.  I ended up going to the welding instructor at the community college night classes and just talked with him.  Told him kinda what I wanted and asked his opinion.  He had me 'audit' the class, took it with out getting credit for it.  Less pressure that way.  after he got the rest of the class going he came over and just showed me how to set up a unit and showed me how to lay down a bead and just play.  I had all the scrap I could play with and a great shop to learn in and if I had questions he was there to correct my ways.  I think several of the guys said it...get out there and talk to someone who does it. Be honest with them tell them you just want to learn it for home and hobby to have a little quiet alone time.  I think the most relaxing days I have had in the last couple years have been with the hood down.

I am finally gonna buy my first welder...I am leaning towards the Lincoln 180. I am starting to make firepits and smokers out of old propane tanks and need a welder I don't have to borrow and worry about scratching. This can be the best new hobby of your smoking career.

Good luck and sorry for diggin up old threads.


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## bigsal51 (Feb 4, 2013)

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__ bigsal51
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__ bigsal51
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You know a lot of times we concentrate on the welder which is fine but that is only the start. Being able to cut and prep the iron is vital. I have been welding pits for the last 7 yrs in my garage and being able to cut 1/4in steel correctly without having to weld huge gaps has been the key to making a cheap welder look great. I lucked out and found a brand new never been used Lincoln 175 mig and I love it. Start off by making a cart and take your time to learn. Because iron is not forgiven. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/bigsal51/Baroid BBQ 2010/DSC03226.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/bigsal51/1364cde69386a6da7fcb2eed589652b7_zpsb5c1e23c.jpg


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## themule69 (Feb 4, 2013)

bigsal51 said:


> image.jpg
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i like the cart. i have both of those welders. i don't use the stick much after i got the mig.

happy smoken.

david


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## bigsal51 (Feb 4, 2013)

Me either I actually sold it to a friend of mine


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