# Ok, if they use Sodium Nitrite to poison wild boar how will it affect your cure calculations?



## alblancher (Jun 22, 2014)

I read an article where swine and wild boar are particularly sensitive to sodium nitrite. There  is a possibility that the chemical will be encapsulated, mixed with bait and used as a poison to reduce wild boar herds.   The chemical binds with the hemoglobin in the blood stream similar to carbon monoxide poisoning.  The animal basically falls asleep permanently.

If you are able to pick up some of this freshly killed pork will it throw off your cure calculations?


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## chef jimmyj (Jun 22, 2014)

Interesting question. The meat we get at the Butcher contains no blood since the animals are Bled Out before being cut up, so they would contain to blood laiden Nitrite. Considering there is no way to tell when the Poisoned animal died, why would you want to eat it. I am thinking there are not to many folks walking the woods and tripping over a fly covered dead Hog and thinking Easter Ham...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






....JJ


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## venture (Jun 22, 2014)

Gotta wonder if it had time to disperse through the meat before piggy went night night?

If there are flies, I would guess it was not sufficiently cured?

Wonder what effect it might have on flies.  Naw, I'm just dreamin.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## kc5tpy (Jun 22, 2014)

Hello.  YOU CITY BOYS??  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





     Sorry Chef Jimmy but I doubt you are going to kill a wild hog in your neighborhood. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





    Is a legitimate question for hunters.  How would you know if the animal you just shot has ingested sodium nitrite?  GREAT question!  My only answer is that you should contact your State wildlife agency and find out if sodium nitrite has been used in your area to control wild hogs.  According to what Chef Jimmy says ( *THE* food safety guru in my opinion ), if you kill a wild animal all you should need to do is bleed it well before butchering.  At least that is how I read his post.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## diggingdogfarm (Jun 22, 2014)

Hmmmm....this is like asking "If I feed salt to a wild boar before dispatching it, will I still need to add salt to season it before eating?" :biggrin:
I don't think it's going to make an appreciable difference, but I also don't think it's generally a good idea to eat poisoned wild hog.....how in the world will you know for sure that strychnine or the like wasn't used??? :icon_eek:


~Martin


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## venture (Jun 22, 2014)

And there is still the fly question?    
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Good luck and good smoking.


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## alblancher (Jun 22, 2014)

AKA the reason for using Sodium Nitrite.  As described in the article and as we all know heat and water rapidly break it down.  It would not leave tremendous amounts of residuals in either the environment or the animal itself

Definitely would not use the meat of an animal killed with a mercury or arsenic based poison.   Seems to me that if you happen to kill a pig that has been feeding on Sodium nitrite infused baits the possibility of getting sick is considerably less then with any of a multitude of other poisoned baits that landowners are resorting to either legally or illegally.


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## atomicsmoke (Jun 22, 2014)

"If you are able to pick up some of this freshly killed pork will it throw off your cure calculations?"

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Huh? 40-140F in 4h, no cure-no cold smoke, cross-contamination concerns, etc but dead (poisoned) animals are OK?

At least botulism is not a concern.


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## venture (Jun 22, 2014)

I don't care if it is sodium nitrite or strychnine?  Even if they kill salmonella, e coli, botulism toxins, pigs, humans, and all them there others?

If that there pig done been laying out in the sun for bout four weeks?

If it aint killed the flies yet?

I aint eatin that there road kill!

Them there flies can getya!

Remember   
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   !!!







Good luck and good smoking.


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## alblancher (Jun 22, 2014)

Ok, let me try and be clear.   

No one should pick up dead animals and eat them without knowing how and when they where killed.  I though that goes without saying.

Wild pigs do an amazing amount of damage, my property is proof.

Hunting and trapping has done little to stem the growth of their population. 

Landowners are searching for a solution to this problem.  Even employing poisoned baits.

It is important to remember that low concentrations of sodium nitrite are lethal to swine.

Concentration of sodium nitrite lethal to swine are not dangerous to deer, humans, pets or scavengers.

It is important to remember that sodium nitrite rapidly degrades in the presence of heat and moisture to Na and NO,  innocuous chemicals in low concentrations 

I am asking the question  "if you kill a pig or watch a pig die that has fed on sodium nitrite baits would it be inherently safer then killing and using a pig that has possibly fed on baits using chemicals lethal to humans in these low concentrations".

If this bait is developed and widely used can you conceivably harvest and make use of wild pigs in "poisoned" areas.  The sodium nitrite oxidizes hemoglobin to methemoglobin leaving I assume Na and NO in the system.  Death of the pig is humane  it simply falls asleep.

I am curious if researchers will determine that the meat is safe for human consumption.


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## chef jimmyj (Jun 23, 2014)

Ok so if the Piggy is " in a Nitrite Baited area " and you shoot it or see it die, would any Nitrite it ate effect the meat or the amount of cure in your calculation...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





If I shoot it while it is still " walking around "...It hasn't eaten or digested any toxic amounts of bait so, No Worries, get to Makin' Bacon...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





If it " Dies " while I am watching it...Sorry to say but I would have to be freakin' starving to eat a Pig that dropped dead in front of me. Considering you would have no idea if it was the Nitrite that killed it or some other Poison, Bacterial Disease or Virus, eating the meat would be Dangerous!...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  Thanks for posting an interesting topic...JJ


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## mdboatbum (Jun 23, 2014)

alblancher said:


> AKA the reason for using Sodium Nitrite.  As described in the article and as we all know heat and water rapidly break it down.  It would not leave tremendous amounts of residuals in either the environment or the animal itself


Not to derail this thread, but this brings to mind a question I've had for a while now. I've heard/read several times that heat breaks down nitrite. Yet I've seen several posts where folks build a curing brine using hot or even boiling water, then ice it down. Does this reduce the effectiveness  of the nitrite?


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## jonf (Jun 23, 2014)

I'm a city boy.

I'm not eating road kill.


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## kc5tpy (Jun 23, 2014)

Hello alblancher.I get where you are coming from.  Folks are *assuming* the hog is found dead ( road kill ) and then butchered, or that after eating the sodium nitrite bait the hog takes two steps and dies on the spot and then is found and butchered, or that if the hog is still walking around he must not have eaten the poison bait.  I am sure the bait doesn't act like poison from the Black Mamba snake.  They don't eat the bait and drop dead on the spot!  These folks aren't hunters.  What you are asking is what if I kill a living,walking, normal acting  wild hog that ate sodium nitrite bait 1, 2 or 3 hours ago.  How would you know, and does that affect the meat?  ANY slow acting poison could be introduced into any herd in a hunting area which could result in poisoning the hunters harvesting from that herd.  Interesting question.  Afraid I can't provide the answers but I agree that this is a question the reseachers SHOULD address before starting to recommend the bait.

Danny


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## diggingdogfarm (Jun 23, 2014)

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Source: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/publications/12pubs/fagerstone121.pdf


~Martin


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## alblancher (Jun 23, 2014)

Can't believe you found that Martin but what it says to me is that my original question is appropriate.

It is possible that research will allow use of the nitrite poisoned animal with the caveat that the meat not be cured or preserved with methods other then freezing or canning.


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## kc5tpy (Jun 23, 2014)

Hello.  GREAT FIND! Martin.  I guess it is in the reading isn't it?  I read that 3 times and the way I read it was that the meat from a "poisoned" hog should be fit for human consumption as pretty much stated in the first paragraph ( the risk of secondary poisoning is minimal ).  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!  Have been many times before, will be again.

Danny


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