# educate me



## cal1956 (May 8, 2022)

i am thinking HARD about buying a small electric smoke but before i  do , i have some questions so
 educate me !!  i know that on the electrics  there is a heating element  beneath  the wood/blocks/chips dust
so what determines when that heating  element cycles on and off ? is it the cooking chamber temp ? the wood temp ?
OR does it just stay on the entire cook ?  i have no  intentions of buying one that uses a meat probe to control the temp


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## bauchjw (May 8, 2022)

I have the MES and it just stays on the entire time. Not sure If it’s safe, but for years I’d sometimes just put a hunk of wood on the element without a tray. I found it worked well for the 40, but when I downsized to the 20 it made dirty smoke that hung out too long. I use a MES smoke machine now and run the smoke through a drainage pipe into the MES20. That gives me clean smoke and is good for cold smoking too.


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## cal1956 (May 8, 2022)

thats interesting indeed !! so no temp control at all


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## 1MoreFord (May 8, 2022)

It depends on the cooker.  Some have analog controllers and others have PID controllers.

AFAIK none control the on/off cycle by the meat temp and all that get hot enough to cycle control like an oven.


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## cal1956 (May 8, 2022)

AFAIK ?  man you folks gotta talk english


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## PolishDeli (May 8, 2022)

In MES's, the heating element turns on/of to maintain a preset chamber temperature.
When the element turns on, it burns the wood too.  When the element turns off, the wood should have a self-sustaining burn.  In principle anyway. 

Works for cook temps 200°F+, but not too well for lower cook temps.

It's much better to separate the burn from the chamber temp regulation though.   I use a masterbuilt slow smoker attachment to do this.   Pellet trays and tubes also work.


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## fxsales1959 (May 8, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> i am thinking HARD about buying a small electric smoke but before i  do , i have some questions so
> educate me !!  i know that on the electrics  there is a heating element  beneath  the wood/blocks/chips dust
> so what determines when that heating  element cycles on and off ? is it the cooking chamber temp ? the wood temp ?
> OR does it just stay on the entire cook ?  i have no  intentions of buying one that uses a meat probe to control the temp


the MES30  (masterbuit) has an eletronic control. there is a small "thingy" not a probe but a temp gauge ( for lack of better vernacular) the element cycles on and off according to the reading of the "thing"y located on the back wall chamber. electrics are notorious for temp swings. not enough to FU your food, but if you're  ACDC it will drive you crazy. but it works.


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## bauchjw (May 8, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> thats interesting indeed !! so no temp control at all


I think 
P
 PolishDeli
 has it . I never really paid attention. I knew the heating element went on and off to maintain temp. Didn’t really make a connection to wood burning in a chip tray though. There is temp control and MES are good little smokers. I think the MES smoke generators are worth it as a mod though, putting it through a pipe cleans it a bit.


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## cal1956 (May 8, 2022)

i am dumbfounded that the electrics have such poor controls on both the heat and smoke , i was expecting  to learn that they were super controlable .........i need to mull  over what i am finding out


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## cal1956 (May 8, 2022)

so  if i understand it a  "smoke genorater " is a seperate piece of equipment  that  has an electric  heating element and  you fill it with  sawdust and place it inside the smoker  where it produces lots and lots of  billowing  smoke 
 is  that an accurate  description  ?


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## JckDanls 07 (May 8, 2022)

Yes..  kinda sorta ... You do not place the generator inside the smoker..  You pipe the smoke in... But yes on everything else...  This is why 85% of people using electrics use the Pellet tube or Tray...  It uses pellets/dust with out any electric and it goes inside the chamber ... 

As for an electric to keep exact temps of the preset...  You would need one with a PID controller...


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## SmokinEdge (May 8, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> so  if i understand it a  "smoke genorater " is a seperate piece of equipment  that  has an electric  heating element and  you fill it with  sawdust and place it inside the smoker  where it produces lots and lots of  billowing  smoke
> is  that an accurate  description  ?


Not exactly, not for good smoke anyway. Something like the “mailbox” mod, where you use a mailbox outside the cooker with a smoke tray or tube inside using either pellet or dust, this is piped into the smoker and an exhaust is cut into the top of the Mes.


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## Winterrider (May 8, 2022)

Many have hit the key points. When I first got my MES 40, I had to use an additional source for smoke ( tube)  because trying to smoke jerky and fish at temps between 130 -180° the wood chips do not get enough heat to activate them to smoke. I would have to chase temps from having to turn up to 200° + for a while to burn and then turn back down as to not cook the jerky. Mailbox mod and PID ($160) made this into one of the finest smokers available. I rarely use my RT 590 because this is so versatile.


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## bauchjw (May 8, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> i am dumbfounded that the electrics have such poor controls on both the heat and smoke , i was expecting  to learn that they were super controlable .........i need to mull  over what i am finding out


Not really sure what your needs are, but lots of people use them here with good results. Like most things it requires some tweaking. They are relatively cheap and easy to use. You won’t get same results as an offset, but you’ll have a bit more free time. Nothings perfect.hit a few buttons, light a smoke tube or use smoke generator or use the chip tray. Expect some fluctuations and dips of heat, but nothing your meat will notice, unless you stare at a second thermometer you won’t notice either!


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## cal1956 (May 8, 2022)

so you spend $ 150.00-300.00 on a smoker  THEN have to spend ANOTHER $ 150.00 - 300.00 to get it  to work properly ...well i DID ask  you to educate me and you sure did that !!!


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## mr_whipple (May 9, 2022)

Spend as little as possible on the smoker. The world is full of cheap used ones just waiting for you. I got mine for a song, and spent the cash on the pid controller.


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

well  what this thread did was  teach me not  to waste my money on an electric  thats for sure ,  think i'll just keep on  using my propane one . it  might be big but it gets the job done


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## fxsales1959 (May 9, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> so you spend $ 150.00-300.00 on a smoker  THEN have to spend ANOTHER $ 150.00 - 300.00 to get it  to work properly ...well i DID ask  you to educate me and you sure did that !!!


prettymuch.  or you invest$$$$ in a high quality appliance that doesn't need mods. I got "a deal" on my my first offset ($450ish) then spent $300+ on gaskets, ,thermometers,clamps, heat5plate and so on.  The crap you see in the big box stores will require mods unless you're not ADHD.


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

i was just looking for something small so that i wouldn't  have to use my big  commercial smoker so much , never having owned an electric, i WAS considering buying  a small one  but am uttterly disappointed at what i have learned about them and what i have learned  has also given me a much clearer  picture of what  i have seen on the forum


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## fxsales1959 (May 9, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> i was just looking for something small so that i wouldn't  have to use my big  commercial smoker so much , never having owned an electric, i WAS considering buying  a small one  but am uttterly disappointed at what i have learned about them and what i have learned  has also given me a much clearer  picture of what  i have seen on the forum


I still use my MES30 for certain cooks, like pork belly for bacon. I do have a tube if i want more smoke. I sty on top of the chip tray, adding more chips before the initial batch quits smoldering. My other ME30 hs been retired because I'mn ot ready to invest in  a PID. buying a MES from masterbuilt is like buying tools from Harbor freight. I f you get a good one they at fine.  Always buy the xtended warranty if buying from home stores or bas pro.


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

i'm not  even sure how to word what i am thinking  about electric smokers for home  use right now ,


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## chopsaw (May 9, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> i'm not even sure how to word what i am thinking about electric smokers for home use right now ,


And you haven't even used one .


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

i think i am just spoiled after having used commercial smokers for so long
i can't  get my mind wrapped around why its normal  to buy a  new piece of equipment  and then  have to spend more money fixing whats  wrong with it !!   its not even a  question about the money as much  as it is the principal involved
  call me old fashioned if you like,  but when  i buy something ( ANYTHING )  it  works  ( without modifiying ) OR it goes back where i bought  it.... think about it , 
would  you  buy a new  lawn mower and then expect to have to buy wheels for it ?


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## schlotz (May 9, 2022)

Kinda comes down to: you get what you pay for, usually that is.  If you are wanting something that works well I would suggest looking at either the Recteq or MAK line of smokers. There are others but I'm most familiar with these two and they are solid performers.


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

i'm all about the "little " guy  and they are  NOT getting what they are PAYING for 
 they are being sold junk and  then expected to  make it work  themselves 
when did  this become acceptable ?


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## cmayna (May 9, 2022)

cal1956,
I got my MES40 free off of craigslist.  Curbside pickup.  Added an Auber PID controller and then a mailbox for the pellet tray and tube.   One could also consider an MES30 if the MES40 is too big.

So my overall cost is around $200 for the PID and mailbox setup.

Craig


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

Craig : thank you for the suggestion 
 but from what i have  learned from this thread i  will NOT be buying anything electric


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## mosparky (May 9, 2022)

You're not returning your kitchen oven because of temp variations are you ? Most don't even agree with a good therm. Some can be adjusted within a narrow window but still may not totally agree with the therm.
Water heaters, furnaces ect (gas or electric) the same way. They all have over shoot.
The MES was not designed specifically for some of the uses many of us are asking of it. Hence the Mods we do to them.
 Smoking butts, ribs, chicken and such a little over shoot is inconsequential. Now when you cook some sausages i.e. Summer Sauasge you are flirting with temps where the fat will melt out of the meat mix and collect between the meat and casing. Not a good eating experience. This is where the PID's come in. They will allow for a much smaller window of over shoot, but not necessary if you want to wait it out at a lower setting to avoid the over shoot taking you into the fat out territory.
I know there are better electrics out there that have better control, but they cost more than MES with mods, a lot more.
The MES 30 and 40's are entry level smokers. The design has lent itself very well to being upgraded to a top performer. Most of us understood this fact very well when we bought them.
 Many of us see it as no different than buying a car or truck and then adding nicer wheels, window tint, pinstriping, new sound system, bed cover, lift kit, trailer hitch, on and on.
 Point is it is a base unit that you can make do whatever you want it to do for a relatively low investment. Yes it has flaws, but what do you expect for a cheap entry level unit of anything.
 Many of these flaws may exist in you commercial smoker if you look well enough. Temp swings won't even show on a dial therm if that is what it has.
Gas units have a hard time in low temp smokes. The burners just aren't designed for that small of a flame and not easily blow out. You could be there a long time trying to get the temp just right. There are work arounds, but that puts right back where you didn't want to be with a cheap electric.


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## cmayna (May 9, 2022)

PolishDeli said:


> Works for cook temps 200°F+, but not too well for lower cook temps.


So wrong when using a PID controller.  My MES40 is pretty dedicated for all the fish we catch starting with 125 temp and increasing up to 155.



cal1956 said:


> Craig : thank you for the suggestion
> but from what i have learned from this thread i will NOT be buying anything electric


Seriously?  What do you normally smoke?   At what temp?

Just found two  MES30 units free on my local Craigslist.


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## PolishDeli (May 9, 2022)

Why the hate? 
An MES digital  out-of-the-box dose not NEED mods to work. 
A lot of us just try to optimize our set ups because we are tinkerers and/or ocd.


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

not hate ..just disappointed


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## Bearcarver (May 9, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> i am thinking HARD about buying a small electric smoke but before i  do , i have some questions so
> educate me !!  i know that on the electrics  there is a heating element  beneath  the wood/blocks/chips dust
> so what determines when that heating  element cycles on and off ? is it the cooking chamber temp ? the wood temp ?
> OR does it just stay on the entire cook ?  i have no  intentions of buying one that uses a meat probe to control the temp



I've had 4 different MES units (Masterbuilt Electric Smokehouse).
They are all Digitally controlled.
When you turn it on & set the Temp, the heating element comes on.
When the Temp Sensor on the back wall reads it to be the set Temp, the Element will shut off.
Then it will slowly cool (Because it's very well insulated.
When the Temp Sensor reads the Temp to be 1° below your set point, the Heating element will come on again, until the Temp gets to your set point again.
Etc, etc, etc, etc----------------

Hope this helps,

Bear


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

Bear :   that was what i was expecting to be told 
but thats  not what i have been reading on  this thread , from reading this thread anyone reading it   would come to the conclusion that a fella would be wasting his money buying  this stuff


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## Bearcarver (May 9, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> Bear :   that was what i was expecting to be told
> but thats  not what i have been reading on  this thread , from reading this thread anyone reading it   would come to the conclusion that a fella would be wasting his money buying  this stuff



Many MES owners, and other Smoker owners like to play around & make things perfect. The only thing I did with all of mine was to put an AMNPS Amazing Smoker in it, with pellets or dust to get up to 12 hours of perfect smoke.
I never needed a mailbox, because it worked good for me inside my MES. I never got a PID, because they all were accurate enough for my Smoking.
I think it would be kinda hard to find a Smoker that works as good as the ones I've had for $300 or less, like my most expensive one cost.

Bear


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## bauchjw (May 9, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> so you spend $ 150.00-300.00 on a smoker  THEN have to spend ANOTHER $ 150.00 - 300.00 to get it  to work properly ...well i DID ask  you to educate me and you sure did that !!!





cal1956 said:


> not hate ..just disappointed


Years ago I got a MES for a couple hundred and we enjoyed it. No mods. Then a year later I spent 20 bucks on AMAZN tray, and we enjoyed the additional smoke. A little after that I spent 60 bucks for a smoke generator and maybe 8 dollars on a drainage pipe for cold smoking that I also use as a mailbox mod. I never needed the mods I purchased, they aren’t required to work properly. I spent maybe 80 dollars over several years to enhance me and my families enjoyment and expanded uses. Not sure why you are disappointed, no reason to be. I’m not disappointed in my friends who spend more money to modify their jeeps than what they are worth off the lot. This is all about having fun and producing good food for family and friends. MES and other electrics do that. Glad you feel satisfied with the education and your gas smoker.


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## smokerjim (May 9, 2022)

I bought a mes 30 probably 8 years ago, never did anything to it but added the mailbox mod, never had any real issues with it and personally I like it better then my pellet grill/smoker, the only thing I can say  little negative about some of them is the factory thermometer might be off but if you use a independent thermometer to verify temps inside then you could adjust accordingly.


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## cal1956 (May 9, 2022)

gentlemen :
i think we can put this thread to bed now , i have all the information i need 
its been a very entertaining thread  post# 7 was a very enjoyable and informative read 
bearcarvers post # 32  was really  all  the information  that i originally sought  . it was clear,  on  point and did not try to sell me on the merits of mods


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