# Foiling ribs.



## fatty patty (Jul 29, 2014)

Anybody else notice that when you foil ribs they heave a "mealy" texture? I'm surprised so many pros foil their ribs.


----------



## noboundaries (Jul 30, 2014)

I don't foil spares.  I do foil BBs.  Never noticed a mealy texture with the BBs on the smoker but I only do BBs maybe 10% of the time.  Mealy to me means they are overcooked and on the dry side.

I also don't pile on the rub on my spares (or BBs) like I see them do on TV.  Makes the ribs taste dusty to me.  I lightly sprinkle my rib rubs.  Maybe adding all that brown sugar and butter to the foil makes a difference to heavily rubbed ribs but it just doesn't appeal to my tastebuds to even give it a try. 

Back when I cooked spares and BBs on my gas grill I'd occasionally get the "mealy," over done texture from foiling.  Thankfully those days are behind me.


----------



## geaux lsutigers (Aug 2, 2014)

Don't smoke BB ribs, to lean. Don't foil ribs, to mushy. I cook my ribs at 225 and they are done in about 4 hours.


----------



## fatty patty (Aug 2, 2014)

Exactly. Foiling ribs gives them a horrible texture. I lost all respect for Myron Nixon watching him foil ribs. If you want fall off  the bone mush then use a goddamn oven.


----------



## pc farmer (Aug 2, 2014)

No foil here either.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 2, 2014)

fatty patty said:


> Anybody else notice that when you foil ribs they heave a "mealy" texture? I'm surprised so many pros foil their ribs.


What if anything do you put on the ribs and in the foil? I use my own Rub and Foiling Juice and my ribs are perfection. Tender but not fall off the bone and a great taste...JJ


----------



## padronman (Aug 2, 2014)

I never foil any of the meat I smoke.  I plan for my smokes and don't need the crutch.  I bet you NEVER see great BBQ joints opening their smokers and wrapping things in foil.

Scott


----------



## damon555 (Aug 3, 2014)

I'm too lazy to open the smoker and futz with the meat any more. Once you get a feel for the time it takes to complete a certain product just leave it be and let it ride. If you are the type that likes to micromanage the smoker then have at it...As for me foiling, mopping, spritzing, turning, poking and prodding does nothing but prolong the process.


----------



## timberjet (Aug 3, 2014)

Sounds like you overcooked your ribs during the foiling time. Too hot maybe?


----------



## geaux lsutigers (Aug 3, 2014)

Why take a rack off the smoker to rape in in foil when the ribs I smoke are better. You can put butter, brown sugar or what have you on the ribs without foiling. I have smoked ribs both ways and I like no foil the best. You have a greater chance of overcooking(to long in foil) your ribs than I do. Four hours on my Memphis Pro at 225* vs 6 hours for you with foil.


----------



## geaux lsutigers (Aug 3, 2014)

Most comp teams will foil for comps but not for family in the backyard.


----------



## welshrarebit (Aug 3, 2014)

Damon555 said:


> I'm too lazy to open the smoker and futz with the meat any more. Once you get a feel for the time it takes to complete a certain product just leave it be and let it ride. If you are the type that likes to micromanage the smoker then have at it...As for me foiling, mopping, spritzing, turning, poking and prodding does nothing but prolong the process.



Same here. I try to only open once at the projected halfway point to insert my meat therm and then let it go until I get to the desired temp.


----------



## hdflame (Aug 4, 2014)

Welshrarebit said:


> Same here. I try to only open once at the projected halfway point to insert my meat therm and then let it go until I get to the desired temp.


I never used a therm on ribs.  What temp do you cook to?


----------



## welshrarebit (Aug 5, 2014)

hdflame said:


> I never used a therm on ribs.  What temp do you cook to?



Sorry, I was referring to the dudes post in general. I don't use a therm in ribs! I do the bend test. After a few smokes you'll know when they are close to being done and you can judge how much longer you need to go...


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 5, 2014)

PadronMan said:


> I never foil any of the meat I smoke.  I plan for my smokes and don't need the crutch.  I bet you NEVER see great BBQ joints opening their smokers and wrapping things in foil.
> 
> Scott


I agree with PardonMan. There is a lot of references made to how this or that competition cook does his thing, but he's not counting on 10's if not 100's of people showing up at his restaurant every day to buy his ribs. All he cares about is what a judge thinks after a single bite. Maybe there are some great BBQ joints that foil their ribs, but I don't know of any. I'm sure I've never eaten at one that does.

Could be what's wrong with my ribs. I've been struggling with them all my smoking life, and foiling hasn't helped me at all. I know I'm not good at it, because there are two BBQ restaurants within 10 miles of me and I can't even come close to theirs (texture or flavor). It's sad when you own an offset smoker and ECB, and have to go to a local restaurant for ribs. I'm working on them, they aren't repulsive, just not great.


----------



## noboundaries (Aug 5, 2014)

I thint we should all help out Grillmon key perfect his ribs.  GM, just need a little info on how you smoke your ribs so we can get yours equal to or better than the restaurants.


----------



## mdboatbum (Aug 5, 2014)

FattyPatty, if your ribs are mealy you're just overcooking them to your taste. Others love the texture of fall off the bone ribs. I hate fall off the  bone ribs, but a short time in foil gives me the texture I like that can't be duplicated without foiling. That's my taste. I wouldn't try to keep you from cooking ribs the way you like them, so maybe others deserve the same consideration. To say your way is right and all others' are wrong is just limiting yourself to one way of looking at things.


----------



## pellet (Aug 5, 2014)

There are those for and those against foiling. I struggled with ribs like Grillmonkey my first 3 or 4 tries at smoking them. Always tough and flavor was not what I wanted as in a "_rib joints_" ribs. I did the 3-2-1 method and have been hooked on foiling since! While I agree that you are disturbing the course of the cook time by opening the smoker and wrapping but it has not posed a problem in so much that I ruin the flavor or texture. I'm not confident enough in myself to rely on the bend test but I do consider them done when the meat pulls back and exposes the end of the bones. I also wonder if the smoker is too hot after foiling and are you putting some juice, beer or other liquid in the foil? Is the mushy texture a result of too much rub prior to going on the smoker? I did that once and the results were similar to what you explained, but then I wasn't foiling at that time and still in the learning stage of smoking ribs to my satisfaction.


----------



## hdflame (Aug 5, 2014)

Gonna put some ribs on the smoker today without foiling.  haven't tried that on my new rig yet.


----------



## yotzee (Aug 5, 2014)

Noboundaries said:


> I thint we should all help out Grillmon key perfect his ribs. GM, just need a little info on how you smoke your ribs so we can get yours equal to or better than the restaurants.


I agree!  We made a trip to Memphis a while back and hit a few places like Germantown Commissary and Central BBQ and my wife and I both agreed my ribs were as good as what they were serving, granted I am not serving hundreds of people per day.

That said, we can get you there Grillmonkey.  Are you making your own rubs and sauces?


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 5, 2014)

I can't speak for Popa Joe's Bone Suckin' Good Ribs in SC but most restaurants DO Foil or Paper wrap...BUT...The " Foil " is actually a super accurate, temp and humidity controlled, insulated 2' X 6' Stainless Steel box aka, a Holding Cabinet, made by Alto-Shaam or other company. You CAN'T finish smoking 400 Racks of BB Ribs at 10AM, and leave 'em in the Smoker, keeping them good to go until the place closes at 11PM...IF the Q Joint does not have a good holding cabinet. They are Foiling to retain moisture and held by other means of heat or they are Refrigerating the Ribs and Re-heating before serving each order. Why do you think across the country most folks want Fall Off the Bone? That is what they get in Restaurants because of Foiling or Holding in a Shaam...

Knowing how to tell the Ribs are Done is the ART behind great ribs...Pull Back is not a perfect indicator, because moisture in the meat, smoker temp, fat content, Pigs age and Cut of rib, has an effect on how much Pull Back you get. Internal Temp is meaningless because it takes TIME at an IT over 160 to breakdown connective tissue. Smoke them at 160°F and it will take 8+ hours to get tender, bite through.You can put the Ribs in a 350°F Smoker and in short order the meat will get to 180-200° but will still be tough. The Bend Test is one of the most accurate but some of the already mentioned factors still have an effect. The BEST Test...Use ALL of the above, then Take a  Bite!...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






...JJ


----------



## red dog (Aug 5, 2014)

I also have quit foiling ribs. I like the crusty goodness on the outside of my ribs. If you foil it steams and it softens the crust. And I agree on the bend test. I got very little pullback on my last ribs but when picked up in the middle they bent enough to almost break in the middle. They were the best ribs I have ever done.


----------



## yotzee (Aug 5, 2014)

I get the lions share of my ribs from the cryovac St Louis cut packs at Costco.  More often then not I dont get much pullback due to the way I cut them.


----------



## geaux lsutigers (Aug 5, 2014)

There are two test. Take a toothpick and test for tender nest or the bend test. I use the bend test. Google bend test. :)


----------



## welshrarebit (Aug 6, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> I can't speak for Popa Joe's Bone Suckin' Good Ribs in SC but most restaurants DO Foil or Paper wrap...BUT...The " Foil " is actually a super accurate, temp and humidity controlled, insulated 2' X 6' Stainless Steel box aka, a Holding Cabinet, made by Alto-Shaam or other company. You CAN'T finish smoking 400 Racks of BB Ribs at 10AM, and leave 'em in the Smoker, keeping them good to go until the place closes at 11PM...IF the Q Joint does not have a good holding cabinet. They are Foiling to retain moisture and held by other means of heat or they are Refrigerating the Ribs and Re-heating before serving each order. Why do you think across the country most folks want Fall Off the Bone? That is what they get in Restaurants because of Foiling or Holding in a Shaam...
> 
> Knowing how to tell the Ribs are Done is the ART behind great ribs...Pull Back is not a perfect indicator, because moisture in the meat, smoker temp, fat content, Pigs age and Cut of rib, has an effect on how much Pull Back you get. Internal Temp is meaningless because it takes TIME at an IT over 160 to breakdown connective tissue. Smoke them at 160°F and it will take 8+ hours to get tender, bite through.You can put the Ribs in a 350°F Smoker and in short order the meat will get to 180-200° but will still be tough. The Bend Test is one of the most accurate but some of the already mentioned factors still have an effect. The BEST Test...Use ALL of the above, then Take a  Bite!...:biggrin: ...JJ



I have an alto-shaa m (my comp wont let me type the name) combitherm express at work and that thing is sweet! I bet it would make an awesome smoker!!! Of course the thing is ridiculously expensive so I'm pretty sure my boss won't let me put my amnts in there... :th_crybaby2:


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 6, 2014)

Yotzee said:


> I agree!  We made a trip to Memphis a while back and hit a few places like Germantown Commissary and Central BBQ and my wife and I both agreed my ribs were as good as what they were serving, granted I am not serving hundreds of people per day.
> 
> That said, we can get you there Grillmonkey.  Are you making your own rubs and sauces?


Last ribs I did 3-2-1 @ 225. I brined in salt, apple juice, pepper, and minced garlic. Rubbed in Meathead's Memphis Dust (a mix-it-yourself recipe). I've used that the last two times. The homemade sauce is an old family recipe (vinegar based). They were good, the family devoured them, they weren't great. I could have gone to either local BBQ joint and got them and been happier.

Prior to that, same rub, no foil. Again they were good, not great. It's the rub or brine or both. Understand, I haven't been doing this long, so I don't have a lot of experience to draw from.

Also, where my wife used to work, they had a cookout and she brought home some ribs that someone had cooked there, they were GREAT. Better than the restaurants'. They wouldn't divulge the recipe.


----------



## gittinit (Aug 6, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> I can't speak for Popa Joe's Bone Suckin' Good Ribs in SC but most restaurants DO Foil or Paper wrap...BUT...The " Foil " is actually a super accurate, temp and humidity controlled, insulated 2' X 6' Stainless Steel box aka, a Holding Cabinet, made by Alto-Shaam or other company. You CAN'T finish smoking 400 Racks of BB Ribs at 10AM, and leave 'em in the Smoker, keeping them good to go until the place closes at 11PM...IF the Q Joint does not have a good holding cabinet. They are Foiling to retain moisture and held by other means of heat or they are Refrigerating the Ribs and Re-heating before serving each order. Why do you think across the country most folks want Fall Off the Bone? That is what they get in Restaurants because of Foiling or Holding in a Shaam...
> 
> Knowing how to tell the Ribs are Done is the ART behind great ribs...Pull Back is not a perfect indicator, because moisture in the meat, smoker temp, fat content, Pigs age and Cut of rib, has an effect on how much Pull Back you get. Internal Temp is meaningless because it takes TIME at an IT over 160 to breakdown connective tissue. Smoke them at 160°F and it will take 8+ hours to get tender, bite through.You can put the Ribs in a 350°F Smoker and in short order the meat will get to 180-200° but will still be tough. The Bend Test is one of the most accurate but some of the already mentioned factors still have an effect. The BEST Test...Use ALL of the above, then Take a  Bite!...:biggrin: ...JJ


I have to agree. The secret to playing chicken is knowing when to flinch.


----------



## yotzee (Aug 6, 2014)

Grillmonkey said:


> Last ribs I did 3-2-1 @ 225. I brined in salt, apple juice, pepper, and minced garlic. Rubbed in Meathead's Memphis Dust (a mix-it-yourself recipe). I've used that the last two times. The homemade sauce is an old family recipe (vinegar based). They were good, the family devoured them, they weren't great. I could have gone to either local BBQ joint and got them and been happier.
> 
> Prior to that, same rub, no foil. Again they were good, not great. It's the rub or brine or both. Understand, I haven't been doing this long, so I don't have a lot of experience to draw from.
> 
> Also, where my wife used to work, they had a cookout and she brought home some ribs that someone had cooked there, they were GREAT. Better than the restaurants'. They wouldn't divulge the recipe.



IMO you have WAY too much trying to add flavor to the party.  I would start first by not brining and try another rub. No foil either.  Start basic.

This is my rub I use on all my pork.  Sometimes I rub the night before, sometimes an hour before.   Not sure I notice a difference.

All in tablespoons:

3 dark brown sugar
2 cajun seasoning (I usually make Emeril's recipe for Essence and have it on hand)
1 salt
1 fresh black pepper
1 cumin
1 cayenne
1 paprika
1 garlic powder

Try that on your next ribs.  No brining.  And try applewood if you arent using it.  It may give you a milder smoke flavor.  I use apple or hickory on ribs and the difference in taste is detactable.


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 6, 2014)

I'll try it not this weekend, but next.


----------



## noboundaries (Aug 6, 2014)

I agree with yotsee, way too many mixed flavor profiles.  The trick is to find flavors and smoke that compliment each other and the meat that fit your tastes.  

I too WAY over did the flavors in the beginning. Simple is better then you can grow from there.

Now I lightly dust with my own simple rubs, smoke 6 hrs at 225-235 unfoiled with the woods I like, then sauce with a doctored commercial sauce for the last 30 minutes.  

There's good recipes above.  And I will say it probably took me 30 tries on a gas grill before I found what we loved and before I started smoking.   That transferred to the smoker and the result dramatically improved.  

BTW, I still tweak the recipe depending on my mood.


----------



## padronman (Aug 6, 2014)

Yotzee said:


> IMO you have WAY too much trying to add flavor to the party. I would start first by not brining and try another rub. No foil either. Start basic.
> 
> This is my rub I use on all my pork. Sometimes I rub the night before, sometimes an hour before. Not sure I notice a difference.
> 
> ...


Agree with this also.  Pecan and Cherry are woods I use on pork and chicken A LOT!  Love those wood profiles.  The rub he posts is a great looking rub.  You can change out a spice here or there and come up with your "own" rub.  It's fun to experiment with these things. 

Scott


----------



## yotzee (Aug 6, 2014)

PadronMan said:


> Agree with this also.  Pecan and Cherry are woods I use on pork and chicken A LOT!  Love those wood profiles.  The rub he posts is a great looking rub.  You can change out a spice here or there and come up with your "own" rub.  It's fun to experiment with these things.
> 
> Scott



Thanks Scott!  We tend to work the same way.

The meathead rub has ginger and rosemary powder, very strong flavors.  Ad in the brining and foiling liquid and there is a myriad of possible flavor conflicts going on.  Memphis rubs are meant to be dry served, no brining, foiling or saucing.  Thats why it has such strong flavors like rosemary.


----------



## padronman (Aug 6, 2014)

Yotzee said:


> Thanks Scott! We tend to work the same way.
> 
> The meathead rub has ginger and rosemary powder, very strong flavors. Ad in the brining and foiling liquid and there is a myriad of possible flavor conflicts going on. Memphis rubs are meant to be dry served, no brining, foiling or saucing. Thats why it has such strong flavors like rosemary.


I am not a fan of Rosemary (neither is the wife) even though I grow it (makes great plants that bugs HATE).  I do like ginger but usualy add it sparingly to my rub.


----------



## barnold (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm a bit late in responding to this thread, but after reading through it I wanted to toss in my 2¢ worth.

For years, I cooked pork spare ribs strictly by look, feel and time.  When I started reading and hearing about the whys and wherefores of the 3-2-1 method, I gave it a try.  My ribs had come out OK before, but foiling after the first three hours helped keep them moister.  Not that they were dry before; there was a small but noticeable difference.  As to them being mushy, I can see how someone might end up with them like that if you overdo the combination of stuff you put in the foil with the ribs.  When I foil, I use squeeze bottle margarine, turbinado sugar or powdered honey, spritz with apple juice and wrap.  If I served them shortly after removing them from foil, they'd be mushy.  Smoking the additional hour firms up the outside and adds a touch more color.  Foil is not a crutch, as some insist, but rather a procedure that many, like me, have learned to trust.

For now, the rub I use is Bad Byron's Butt Rub.  We like it but I would like to alter the profile a little.  It's got a good blend of spicy and sweet without going too far either way.  I'm planning to start throwing some different spices and herbs together in small batches to test.  In the meantime, BB is the way to go.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 6, 2014)

BArnold said:


> I'm a bit late in responding to this thread, but after reading through it I wanted to toss in my 2¢ worth.
> 
> For years, I cooked pork spare ribs strictly by look, feel and time.  When I started reading and hearing about the whys and wherefores of the 3-2-1 method, I gave it a try.  My ribs had come out OK before, but foiling after the first three hours helped keep them moister.  Not that they were dry before; there was a small but noticeable difference.  As to them being mushy, I can see how someone might end up with them like that if you overdo the combination of stuff you put in the foil with the ribs.  When I foil, I use squeeze bottle margarine, turbinado sugar or powdered honey, spritz with apple juice and wrap.  If I served them shortly after removing them from foil, they'd be mushy.  Smoking the additional hour firms up the outside and adds a touch more color.  *Foil is not a crutch, as some insist, but rather a procedure that many, like me, have learned to trust.*
> 
> For now, the rub I use is Bad Byron's Butt Rub.  We like it but I would like to alter the profile a little.  It's got a good blend of spicy and sweet without going too far either way.  I'm planning to start throwing some different spices and herbs together in small batches to test.  In the meantime, BB is the way to go.


I could not agree more strongly!  I doubt the " Foiling is a Crutch " folks say, " Electric Slicers are a Crutch! " or " Grinders are a Crutch "...Tools are Tools and anything that gets the job done the way YOU like it is not a CRUTCH!  In the 60's, hardly a Rib Recipe came out that didn't include Boiling them for an hour first! Was that a Crutch or just the school of thought at the time.  

My last few Rib Smokes were 275°F, 4 hours no Foil. After the last one my entire family wanted to know, " Why have you stopped using your awesome Foiling Juice!?! "...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





... See if you can guess what I will be doing from now on???
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...JJ


----------



## sqwib (Aug 6, 2014)

Yeah the term Texas Crutch seems unfair but its only verbage that has been used for who knows how long. Using the Texas Crutch is a great tool and the end results are usually satisfactory.
Foiling is a tool just as any other tool we use to achieve desired results


----------



## stickyfingers (Aug 6, 2014)

You all are forgetting that one of the main reason comp guys foil is to prevent the ribs from getting too dark. Remember it's all about balance.


----------



## padronman (Aug 6, 2014)

I also don't believe that foiling is a "crutch" I believe it's just a term used.  I personally don't foil and won't......but only cause I am happy with the outcome of what I cook.  I always say cook the way you like......and like the outcome.

Scott


----------



## yotzee (Aug 7, 2014)

I did a rack of ribs yesterday.  Dialed the smoker in to about 250, loaded some hickory and put the ribs in. After that I took the wife to the doctor to have a procedure done.  Gone 3 hours so the ribs never were touched.  Returned home and after the 4th hour I took a look and they were getting there.  Sauced with my homemade sauce twice in the last 45 mins and after about 5.5 hours I had perfect ribs.

Moist and juicy, clean bite through and slight tug, and all the meat came off the bone.   Like I heard Johnny Trigg say yesterday on an old episode of Pit Masters, sometimes you have to keep BBQ the way it was meant to be - Simple and easy.













IMG_6555.jpg



__ yotzee
__ Aug 7, 2014


















IMG_2590.jpg



__ yotzee
__ Aug 7, 2014


















IMG_0729.jpg



__ yotzee
__ Aug 7, 2014


















IMG_4196.jpg



__ yotzee
__ Aug 7, 2014


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 7, 2014)

Yotzee said:


> I did a rack of ribs yesterday.  Dialed the smoker in to about 250, loaded some hickory and put the ribs in. After that I took the wife to the doctor to have a procedure done.  Gone 3 hours so the ribs never were touched.  Returned home and after the 4th hour I took a look and they were getting there.  Sauced with my homemade sauce twice in the last 45 mins and after about 5.5 hours I had perfect ribs.
> 
> Moist and juicy, clean bite through and slight tug, and all the meat came off the bone.   Like I heard Johnny Trigg say yesterday on an old episode of Pit Masters, sometimes you have to keep BBQ the way it was meant to be - Simple and easy.


I agree. It's when I try to get fancy that I usually run into problems.


----------



## gittinit (Aug 7, 2014)

Yup.  My neighbor likes to have a peek all the time to see how it's going. My theory: Fugitabodit!  Let them sit there and be happy. Besides every time you open that door ya have to put the old fashion down and that's just not an acceptable practice. Lol


----------



## jbills5 (Aug 7, 2014)

Lots of replies here, but here is my 2 cents.  I do foil, mainly because i want to ensure a nice color and also, I don't use a lot of sugars in my main rub so then I can add a little sweetness with brown sugar in my foil.  As others have mentioned, it sounds like the ribs just may be a bit overcooked.  A few tips if you want to foil...

- 3-2-1 is a guideline for ribs, but by no means science.  Smoke until you get the color you want then wrap.  I check mine at 2.5 hours.

- If you do foil, let them sit in the foil for 1.5 hours then check them.  Open up a rack real quick and give a bone a gentle tug.  If it feels like it is about ready to come out, you are done with the wrapping portion.

- Unwrap and put back on smoker for about an hour or so.  This will help the ribs tighten back up and you can glaze from there and pull off.


----------



## timberjet (Aug 9, 2014)

Must not have been that good if you put one down to take a picture. Hahaha.... Just ribbing you, looks great and nice smoke ring there.


----------



## larry shuler (Aug 21, 2014)

That's what I do - 3-2-1 method.  After reading all these post above yours, I think I will smoke one with foil and one without and do my own taste test.  And the worst my ribs have ever came out was falling off the bone too easily.  That only happened once and another time it was "almost" falling off.  My ribs have always been very tasty.  Smoking some mas & cheese with them this weekend!


----------



## larry shuler (Aug 21, 2014)

Sorry, I thought this would show up in the post I was talking about - #18 on this thread.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 21, 2014)

Larry, 3-2-1 will almost always give Fall off the Bone ribs because of the time the meat spends Braising in the foil. If you like the taste the foiling process gives but want more Pull from the meat, cut the foiling time down to 1 or 1.5 hours and then add the time as needed at the end such as 3-1.5-1.5 or you get a 90° bend, with splintering meat, when you pick the rack up from one end. This adjustment of foiling time and bend test, don't rely on Pull Back as it does not always happen, gives the best of both worlds...JJ


----------



## larry shuler (Aug 21, 2014)

jbills5 said:


> Lots of replies here, but here is my 2 cents.  I do foil, mainly because i want to ensure a nice color and also, I don't use a lot of sugars in my main rub so then I can add a little sweetness with brown sugar in my foil.  As others have mentioned, it sounds like the ribs just may be a bit overcooked.  A few tips if you want to foil...
> 
> - 3-2-1 is a guideline for ribs, but by no means science.  Smoke until you get the color you want then wrap.  I check mine at 2.5 hours.
> 
> ...





Chef JimmyJ said:


> Larry, 3-2-1 will almost always give Fall off the Bone ribs because of the time the meat spends Braising in the foil. If you like the taste the foiling process gives but want more Pull from the meat, cut the foiling time down to 1 or 1.5 hours and then add the time as needed at the end such as 3-1.5-1.5 or you get a 90° bend, with splintering meat, when you pick the rack up from one end. This adjustment of foiling time and bend test, don't rely on Pull Back as it does not always happen, gives the best of both worlds...JJ


Oh yeah.  I have been adjusting my 3-2-1 times the past few smokes.  Size of meat, outside temp/humidity, temp inside pit - all factors.  One time I took them out of foil too early and the didn't "bite clean" enough off the bone.  The reason I took them out early was because the last time the fell off too easily.  I have been getting better and better at judging everything throughout the whole process.  Thanks for the input though.  Happy smoking!


----------



## sqwib (Aug 21, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Larry, 3-2-1 will almost always give Fall off the Bone ribs because of the time the meat spends Braising in the foil. If you like the taste the foiling process gives but want more Pull from the meat, cut the foiling time down to 1 or 1.5 hours and then add the time as needed at the end such as 3-1.5-1.5 *or you get a 90° bend, with splintering meat,* when you pick the rack up from one end. This adjustment of foiling time and bend test, don't rely on Pull Back as it does not always happen, gives the best of both worlds...JJ


x2
 













20131129105.JPG



__ sqwib
__ Aug 21, 2014


----------



## oldschoolbbq (Aug 21, 2014)

I can say that I don't foil anything . Too much time , opening the Smoker too much , waste of good Smoke and easier.













IMG_0009.JPG



__ oldschoolbbq
__ May 30, 2014


















bbq shots 001.JPG



__ oldschoolbbq
__ Nov 1, 2012






Put them in , 225*F , keep an eye on heat and they come out great
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I leave them in the heat and smoke for 4.5 to 5 hrs. and then check them , they are always tender and moist ; not mushy or fall off the bone , a good tender bite through the meat.

Have fun and . . .


----------



## bbquint (Aug 22, 2014)

I've done both ways and love the results of both. When foiling the meat tends to be more tender IMO. But I like both, and it depends on the target audience I guess. I have freinds that love FOTB ribs so I foil and hear everytime about how they are the best ribs they ever had. Others like to have a slight pull, for them I don't foil and they also love them.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 22, 2014)

BBQuint said:


> I've done both ways and love the results of both. When foiling the meat tends to be more tender IMO. But I like both, and it depends on the target audience I guess. I have freinds that love FOTB ribs so I foil and hear everytime about how they are the best ribs they ever had. Others like to have a slight pull, for them I don't foil and they also love them.


Exactly! There are a lot of ways to get to great Ribs. I have even done both when I have time to play. Two racks. one with Foil for Mrs. J and one without 'cause I like like more pull and extra smokey...JJ


----------



## noboundaries (Aug 22, 2014)

My wife requested her favorite: BB, FOTB ribs this weekend.  I'll be foiling. 

Thankfully I'll also be smoking an 8 lb shoulder at the same time so even though I'm not a fan of BBs or FOTB, I'll have the PP to keep me smiling later.  Might even join the Cult of the Bark and not foil the roast.  Will wonders never cease?


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 23, 2014)

FOTB Ribs might as well be Pulled Pork...JJ


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 23, 2014)

Noboundaries said:


> My wife requested her favorite: BB, FOTB ribs this weekend.  I'll be foiling.
> 
> Thankfully I'll also be smoking an 8 lb shoulder at the same time so even though I'm not a fan of BBs or FOTB, I'll have the PP to keep me smiling later.  Might even join the Cult of the Bark and not foil the roast.  Will wonders never cease?


We need to come up with a way to identify the members of the "Cult of the Bark" so we can recognize each other out on the street (or on this forum). Maybe a tattoo for the street and for the forum a tag next to our avatar.


----------



## tropics (Aug 23, 2014)

Maybe a secret hand shake, or wave. LOL

All them ribs look fine to me.

Richie


----------



## noboundaries (Aug 23, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> FOTB Ribs might as well be Pulled Pork...JJ


Trust me, I know.  Its her birthday though and she wants her ribs to FOTB.  Sigh.  The good news is I know how to do it for her.  The bad news I have to look like I'm enjoying the ribs.  But we have a daughter visiting so maybe between the two of them I can skip the ribs and enjoy my pulled pork with THIS................













002.JPG



__ noboundaries
__ Aug 23, 2014


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 24, 2014)

Nice Bro! I hope you enjoy the sauce and Happy Birthday to your Mrs. Take care...JJ


----------



## oldschoolbbq (Aug 26, 2014)

That's exactly right . Foiled Ribs taste like more an over cooked flavor. Doing with no foil is always better , once you get a gripon no foil , IMHO , you;ll convert.













bbq shots 001.JPG



__ oldschoolbbq
__ Nov 1, 2012






They come out great and juicy as any Rib you've had , and easier ( no mucing with them. You can leave them in without looking until you smell them, THEN check . I believe you'll see a great difference.

Have fun and . . .


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm still trying to decide how to do my ribs this weekend, and it's already Tuesday. I change my mind every 5 minutes...foil/no foil...sweet/salty...brine/no brine...finishing sauce/no sauce...you get the point. It's making my head hurt.


----------



## fwismoker (Aug 26, 2014)

I won't foil nor pull the membrane.  I have a new system for cooking ribs where they are finished cooking in 90 minutes or less for BB or spare ribs.     













P1020829.JPG



__ fwismoker
__ Aug 26, 2014






BB-90 minutes naked













P1020830.JPG



__ fwismoker
__ Aug 26, 2014


















P1020868.JPG



__ fwismoker
__ Aug 23, 2014






Back/Front side of spares 85 minutes.













P1020869.JPG



__ fwismoker
__ Aug 23, 2014


















P1020873.JPG



__ fwismoker
__ Aug 23, 2014


----------



## 3montes (Aug 26, 2014)

I use pork loin ribs. I call them baby backs. They are extra meaty just like the packaging says. Trimmed very nicely with membrane already removed. These are the only ribs I make anymore no reason to look for anything different. I quit foiling several years ago. I go strictly by the bend test for doneness. I'm not to humble to say I'm gaining a very favorable reputation for my ribs. I have been doing large events where there is usually a couple of meats but my ribs are always requested.

I have a wedding coming up in a couple weeks where I'm doing 70lbs of pulled pork and 40 racks of ribs. Seems the more events I do the more requests I get so I guess I'm doing something right.

That's why I'm sold on these pork loin ribs. Nice not having to peel 40 membranes!













100_0197.jpg



__ 3montes
__ Aug 26, 2014


















SANY0001.jpg



__ 3montes
__ Aug 26, 2014


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 26, 2014)

3montes said:


> I use pork loin ribs. I call them baby backs. They are extra meaty just like the packaging says. Trimmed very nicely with membrane already removed. These are the only ribs I make anymore no reason to look for anything different. I quit foiling several years ago.


I will look for these around here in S. Georgia; they look good. Do you rub, baste, or spritz them? What's your recipe, cook time/temp?

My ribs need some work!


----------



## 3montes (Aug 26, 2014)

I use a rub from the Spice house. I buy 2 of their blends and mix them 50/50. Sugar maple garlic blend and Milwaukee Iron seasoning blend. They work well together. I spritz them with a mix apple juice and whatever is in the liquor cabinet. Something fruity like cherry schnapps or a fruity wine.

Because these ribs are so meaty I'm usually looking around the 5 hour mark for these to get done. Depending on how my temps are running.

I sometimes glaze with a product called Swine Apple. Best stuff on the planet. Google it you will find it.


----------



## yotzee (Aug 27, 2014)

Grillmonkey said:


> I will look for these around here in S. Georgia; they look good. Do you rub, baste, or spritz them? What's your recipe, cook time/temp?
> 
> My ribs need some work!


Grillmonkey, are you sure what you are looking to achieve?  What are you using as a comparison to your own ribs?

I would recommend first working on cooking technique, texture and doneness.  Then work on flavor profile.  That will help you get more consistent results.  Get the ribs done the way you want a few times, then play with spritzes, and brines, and rubs, and sauces.


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 27, 2014)

Yotzee said:


> Grillmonkey, are you sure what you are looking to achieve?  What are you using as a comparison to your own ribs?
> 
> I would recommend first working on cooking technique, texture and doneness.  Then work on flavor profile.  That will help you get more consistent results.  Get the ribs done the way you want a few times, then play with spritzes, and brines, and rubs, and sauces.


I think that's my problem, I don't know what I want. I've done ribs plenty of times, I just haven't hit on anything that knocked my socks off. Chef JimmyJ posted a recipe on another thread I'm going to try this weekend. There is just so many different techniques and recipes out there it's hard to decide what to try.


----------



## yotzee (Aug 27, 2014)

Try them all, one at a time.  Don't mix them or confuse them.  And don't be so hard sought for perfection.

Here's how I got where I wanted.  First I decided that I prefer St. Louis Cut side ribs.  So I only used those for a long time.   Then I decided that I prefer a rub that brings heat and sweet.  I believe I already shared my rub with you.  Its a good, standard BBQ rub.  Then I decided that I favor the vinegar type sauces over the sweeter sauces, so I went with that.

From there I kept those consistent and I worked on texture.  One weekend foil with just a little more of my rub and apple juice.  Tried those a few times, didn't like the texture, so I worked on not foiling and learning to just leave the ribs alone in the smoker for 3-4 hours.  I stuck with hickory wood because it was what I had on hand.  Practiced learning the doneness.  Bend test, toothpick test.  Got to where I had something consistent and could produce a good rib.   Now I just wing it with what ever strikes me the day of the smoke.


----------



## noboundaries (Aug 27, 2014)

GM, you can't go wrong with Chef Jimmy Js input.  Always great stuff.  I'm a fan.

That said, Yotzee gave some great advice too.  With smoking meat, more is not always better.  Keep it simple and it is much easier to find what you are looking for to make your taste buds smile.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 27, 2014)

Grillmonkey said:


> I think that's my problem, I don't know what I want. I've done ribs plenty of times, I just haven't hit on anything that knocked my socks off. Chef JimmyJ posted a recipe on another thread I'm going to try this weekend. There is just so many different techniques and recipes out there it's hard to decide what to try.


Anything I can help with or clarify, send a PM and I will be happy to answer your questions...JJ


----------



## grillmonkey (Aug 27, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Anything I can help with or clarify, send a PM and I will be happy to answer your questions...JJ


Thank you, I will. I'm turning the recipe over to the boss to see if it's workable for her, she controls all ingredients. I have to do all the laborious parts (slaving over the hot smoker, drinking beer, etc.).


----------



## smoking jo (Jun 14, 2015)

Grillmonkey said:


> Thank you, I will. I'm turning the recipe over to the boss to see if it's workable for her, she controls all ingredients. I have to do all the laborious parts (slaving over the hot smoker, drinking beer, etc.).


Any update on what you found worked or didn't work to improve your results GM?


----------



## grillmonkey (Jun 14, 2015)

Smoking Jo said:


> Any update on what you found worked or didn't work to improve your results GM?


Thanks to Chef JJ, I am now the neighborhood rib expert. Family and friends now look to me for advice on their ribs.


----------



## kenafein (Jun 14, 2015)

Which thread was this?  I'm always willing to try a new way to make ribs.


----------



## grillmonkey (Jun 14, 2015)

kenafein said:


> Which thread was this?  I'm always willing to try a new way to make ribs.


http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110881/foiling-juice-chef-jimmyj


----------



## stabone (Jun 15, 2015)

Grillmonkey said:


> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110881/foiling-juice-chef-jimmyj


I use a *very* slightly modified version of JJ's recipe and have won 1st place in ribs 3 out of 4 competitions. The only reason we didn't get a call in the other competition was because the ribs were not cooked enough and we got hammered on tenderness. Even then, we still got 16th out of 48. At each competition I have had multiple people comment on my ribs by saying that they were "the best I've ever had." Of course, this foiling juice is only part of the battle......You still gotta cook good ribs.


----------



## cecil (Jun 16, 2015)

Geaux Tigers beat Fullerton!!!


----------



## chef jimmyj (Jun 16, 2015)

Stabone said:


> I use a *very* slightly modified version of JJ's recipe and have won 1st place in ribs 3 out of 4 competitions. The only reason we didn't get a call in the other competition was because the ribs were not cooked enough and we got hammered on tenderness. Even then, we still got 16th out of 48. At each competition I have had multiple people comment on my ribs by saying that they were "the best I've ever had." Of course, this foiling juice is only part of the battle......You still gotta cook good ribs.










OUTSTANDING!!!!! I'm feeling like a proud Grandpa. I don't compete but I can live vicariously through you and a bunch of other guys that have been walking using the Foiling Juice or a variation of it...JJ


----------



## stabone (Jun 17, 2015)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> OUTSTANDING!!!!! I'm feeling like a proud Grandpa. I don't compete but I can live vicariously through you and a bunch of other guys that have been walking using the Foiling Juice or a variation of it...JJ


Yeah, JJ, I even have the teams that taught us the ropes of competition BBQ asking for the recipe. And these are some pretty good teams so it says a lot. I think the butter and brown sugar foiling method is played out and everyone tries to use it. I wanted something different and this recipe does it for me. Thanks again for sharing the recipe!


----------



## morkfrompork (Jun 18, 2015)

Just my take on what`s been written.

1. Foil or no Foil is like wood choices.

2. Foil or no Foil is like rub choices.

3. Foil or no Foil will be argued forever.

4. Foil or no Foil will be decided by you and your family.

5. Foil or no Foil can only be decided after trying both ways.

I`ve tried both and am still trying different methods, rubs, mops, and wood mixes.

Not sure I`ll ever get "perfect ribs" and am kind of hoping I never do.

If I ever get those "perfect" ribs, I`ll spend the rest of my life chasing that taste, that might have had more to do with my mood and hunger level than actual taste.

To me the "perfect" rib is the one I`m eating at the time, while thinking about what I might change for the next time.


----------



## mummel (Jun 18, 2015)

I foiled one rack and left the other in the smoker for 3-2.0.5.  One rack was juicy and tender.  The other one was tougher.  I didnt mark them so cant say which one was which.  Am I right in assuming the tender one was the foiled one?


----------



## chef jimmyj (Jun 18, 2015)

mummel said:


> I foiled one rack and left the other in the smoker for 3-2.0.5.  One rack was juicy and tender.  The other one was tougher.  I didnt mark them so cant say which one was which.  Am I right in assuming the tender one was the foiled one?


Most likely. The collagen connective tissues, binding the muscle fibers together and making the meat tough, breaks down easily when the IT hits 160°F...BUT...Add some liquid and the process is accelerated...JJ


----------



## mummel (Jun 18, 2015)

I wish there was a way to get an accurate reading with my Maverick 733.  I think Im going to try it next time just for experimental purposes.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Jun 20, 2015)

mummel said:


> I wish there was a way to get an accurate reading with my Maverick 733.  I think Im going to try it next time just for experimental purposes.


In what way? The MAV BBQ Probe does a great job of measuring smoker temp. Just place it on the same shelf as the meat. You can also test an empty smoker in different places to get a general idea of smoker hotspots. Just be aware that a loaded smoker has different hotspots than an empty one...JJ


----------

