# Hanging And Securing Fish Tightly To Be Able To Smoke Them?



## sotv

Had a bit of a disappointing accident yesterday when trying to smoke some fish (Mackerel) for the first time yesterday.

I bought 4 x  8-10 inch whole mackerel about 300-400g each in weight and attached a hook through the eyeballs either side to hang them from the bar in the lid of my ProQ.

Unfortunately went to check on them after 45 minutes and found them floating in the water pan (my fault for not replacing the grill plate over the water pan after cooking off some ribs  over the hot coals beforehand).
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I obviously didn't see what happened, but assuming as the fish cooked, the meat became soft (even the head part) where the hooks went through and then the hooks just tore/slipped through the meat, with the weight of the fish?. The fish were very secure on the hooks and could be lifted quite easily by them when in the raw state, so never gave it a second thought that something like this may happen.

Is there a better way of securing fish to the these hooks so this doesn't happen in the future or am I going to have to lay them flat over the grill plates  to cook them off?


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## wade

Some basic questions first...

At what temperature were you smoking them? Were you trying to hot or cold smoke them (from your description I guess hot). Were they filleted or whole and gutted?


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## sotv

They were whole gutted mackerel and were being hot smoked.

The temperature of the smoker when I initially put them in was 235F  (but as I had just seared 4 racks of ribs over the coals to finish them off, it was running a little hotter than the 214F I had been using the smoker for during the past 6 hours ). I wasn't monitoring the temperature during the 45 minutes as we were demolishing the ribs and pit beans during this time. My Maverick probe didn't beep though and the one time I did look it was at 218F after about half an hour into the cook. (My Maverick was set with a scale of 237-212F to operate within without going off, so it certainly stayed within that range.

I have 2 x 1KG fo salmon sides to cold smoke on Tuesday or Wednesday (on a side note WOW what a lot of liquid is extracted by this amount of salmon whilst it cures) I was intending attaching two hooks in the meatiest top part of each fillet and hanging it. But after the mackerel disaster, I think laying them skin side down on the grate may be a better and safer option?


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## wade

That is really too hot to hot smoke fish and I am not surprised that it fell apart. Fish is best started smoking at a lower temperature, then in increasing temperature stages, until it reaches the desired temperature. This helps the protein to set within the fish and helps prevent it falling apart. It also helps stop the unsightly while blobs of protein oozing at the surface. It is a good idea to brine them first too as this helps to firm up the flesh and stop then from falling apart.

Gut the mackerel and remove the blood channel that runs along the backbone. Wash the fish well under cold running water. You can now lightly score the skin across each side if you want to let more smoke into the meat. I don't usually score mine.

Immerse in a 70%-80% brine (250 g non iodised salt per litre of water) for 1.5 hours if un-scored or 1 hour if scored. Again rinse under cold running water to remove the surface brine.

Hook the fish through both eyes (or use a skewer) and then hang in the smoker. Place little pieces of wood between the belly flaps to keep them open - cocktail sticks are great for this. 

Smoke at ~45 C for 30 minutes. This is a good point to add more smoke using your cold smoke generator. Then then raise the temperature up to 80 C for 1.5 -2 hours depending on the size of the fish. The skin should turn a deep golden colour and become slightly wrinkled.

Allow to cool and then wrap.













Hanging in smoker.jpg



__ wade
__ Apr 10, 2017


















Mackerel Cooked.jpg



__ wade
__ Apr 10, 2017


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## sotv

As always thanks for the detailed reply.

TBH none of the online smoking recipes or cookbooks I had read, mentioned lower temperatures, that I noticed, but after my experience that makes sense.

I have only ever smoked with heat in the range of 210 - 235 F using coals/heat beads and not tried it at 45C  to 80 C range you suggest. How do I go about achieving these lower temperatures on my ProQ? What source of combustible material lets me achieve this as the cold smoker and dust on its own would't reach 45C

Or is smoking fish more suited to Electric and Gas Smokers where you can regulate the temperatures more easily?


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## smokin monkey

You in good hands with Wade, regarding Smoking Fish.

I do not like fish and fish doesn't like me!


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## wade

sotv said:


> I have 2 x 1KG fo salmon sides to cold smoke on Tuesday or Wednesday (on a side note WOW what a lot of liquid is extracted by this amount of salmon whilst it cures) I was intending attaching two hooks in the meatiest top part of each fillet and hanging it. But after the mackerel disaster, I think laying them skin side down on the grate may be a better and safer option?


Sorry - I had to rush away before I could address you second point about the salmon - Why does our day job always get in the way of other more important things? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Yes salmon will release a lot of water as it cures. Salmon is naturally a very wet textured fish and an important part of the curing process is the removal of a lot of that water. When curing salmon for traditional smoked salmon you are looking to achieve ~18% weight loss during the curing and smoking process. It is not uncommon for a whole split salmon to produce between 500 ml-1 litre of liquid brine during the salt curing phase.

If you are wanting to hang salmon to smoke then they are better split and not filleted. This keeps the collar round the gills in place to support the weight of the salmon sides and the rib cage in place to support the weight of the flesh. 













Preparing to smoke.jpg



__ wade
__ Apr 10, 2017


















Hanging in smoker.jpg



__ wade
__ Apr 10, 2017






If you are using fillets then the best way to smoke these is flat on a wire mesh cooling rack as this will keep them together. The cheap supermarket cake cooling rack (cut down if necessary to fit in the smoker) gives the fish better support than the bbq cooking grate - but either will work.


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## wade

sotv said:


> TBH none of the online smoking recipes or cookbooks I had read, mentioned lower temperatures, that I noticed, but after my experience that makes sense.
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> I have only ever smoked with heat in the range of 210 - 235 F using coals/heat beads and not tried it at 45C  to 80 C range you suggest. How do I go about achieving these lower temperatures on my ProQ? What source of combustible material lets me achieve this as the cold smoker and dust on its own would't reach 45C
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> Or is smoking fish more suited to Electric and Gas Smokers where you can regulate the temperatures more easily?


A couple of books that can help are "Home Smoking and Curing" by Keith Erlandson and "Smoking Salmon and Trout" by Jack Whelan. When I started out these books gave me good background information before I started to develop my own methods. 

Keeping the ProQ at lower temperatures is just the same as maintaining the higher temperatures - it is down to the fire size and air control using the bottom vents. Use a smaller fire than you would usually use for your ribs and keep the minion strictly under a tight control. Placing hot water in the water tray, covered in foil, will also help reach and maintain the temperature when using a small fire.


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## sotv

Wade said:


> Sorry - I had to rush away before I could address you second point about the salmon - Why does our day job always get in the way of other more important things?
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> __ wade
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> If you are using fillets then the best way to smoke these is flat on a wire mesh cooling rack as this will keep them together. The cheap supermarket cake cooling rack (cut down if necessary to fit in the smoker) gives the fish better support than the bbq cooking grate - but either will work.


Thanks for that, I have already cut down of the cooling racks yesterday as I thought I would be cold smoking them flat anyway. 

I will see how this attempt goes before looking at the hanging method and type of split, you have explained.

Added the cucumber, gin and juniper marinade yesterday morning, then the cure and put them in the fridge afterwards. I have read many differing opinions on how long they should be left for before cold smoking. I am hoping by tomorrow morning to be able to remove them, washing the brine off and then patting them down with paper towels, before air drying them in the fridge  for 12 hours and then putting them on the smoker, after lightly brushing them with a bit more gin. I shall be using oak dust in the cold smoker. Once again the opinion seems to be between 12-24 hours worth of cold smoking is needed to finish them off. So I may have to split it over 2 nights if the 24 hours is needed.

I have noted your tip on the weight loss side of the fillet overall and I am hoping the flesh will be more firmer after the curing process, from what I have seen on youtube and read. Otherwise I may need to cure for a little longer. But as it stands at the moment with the amount of liquid released so far and the gin, the resulting liquid mixture has submerged the fillets, so unable to gauge that at the moment till I check tomorrow morning.


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## sotv

Wade said:


> A couple of books that can help are "Home Smoking and Curing" by Keith Erlandson and "Smoking Salmon and Trout" by Jack Whelan. When I started out these books gave me good background information before I started to develop my own methods.
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> Keeping the ProQ at lower temperatures is just the same as maintaining the higher temperatures - it is down to the fire size and air control using the bottom vents. Use a smaller fire than you would usually use for your ribs and keep the minion strictly under a tight control. Placing hot water in the water tray, covered in foil, will also help reach and maintain the temperature when using a small fire.


Thanks will have a look for those books if I decide to persevere with the fish long term.

I will have a practice over Easter with a couple more mackerel to see if I can regulate the temperature at these lower degrees you suggest. Two years on the Brinkmann before the ProQ and I thought everything was cooked when using heat at or around 225 F using a bullet smoker. Still got lots to learn by the looks of it....
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  Thanks to you and the other members on here with doing that also.

p.s Going to purchase a fish basket for the ProQ soon. Got family down in Brixham, who have access to crabs, shellfish and fresh fish straight off the boat. So when they come up next time. They are going to bring a selection of stuff up with them and will see what it it turns out like. Will need to master those lower temperatures first though.


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## wade

sotv said:


> Added the cucumber, gin and juniper marinade yesterday morning, then the cure and put them in the fridge afterwards. I have read many differing opinions on how long they should be left for before cold smoking. I am hoping by tomorrow morning to be able to remove them, washing the brine off and then patting them down with paper towels, before air drying them in the fridge  for 12 hours and then putting them on the smoker, after lightly brushing them with a bit more gin. I shall be using oak dust in the cold smoker. Once again the opinion seems to be between 12-24 hours worth of cold smoking is needed to finish them off. So I may have to split it over 2 nights if the 24 hours is needed.
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Be careful that you are not mixing Gravadlax and smoked salmon curing methods. Did you add the gin after you had cured with the salt? For cold smoked salmon you do not want to start putting back some of that water that you have taken time to remove with the salt. If you have then you may need to leave it in the cold smoker with a good air flow a little longer to remove it again.

You can certainly cure smoked salmon with gin and cucumber but if you then smoke it you may find that you lose a lot of the freshness of the gin and cucumber flavour. Commercially to get this distinct flavour they often use a sharp white wine with juniper berries rather than actual gin.

Be careful that you don't cure for too long as it can become very salty.

If you are aiming for a traditional smoked salmon texture then you will be looking at an ~24 hour smoke. I smoke mine at 20-24 C as this gives a good rate of water loss.


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## sotv

Wade said:


> If you are aiming for a traditional smoked salmon texture then you will be looking at an ~24 hour smoke. I smoke mine at 20-24 C as this gives a good rate of water loss.


I was going to do it overnight with just the Cold Smoke Generator like the bacon, but if I need 20-24C Doing it during the day may be a better option. Even though it is cooler this week


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## wade

There is no right way to do it (though there are a few wrong ways) but what you are trying to achieve is to lower that water content to both preserve the fish and to give you that distinct smoked salmon texture. There are several ways of doing this and it is about getting the right balance. You can leave it longer in the salt to extract more water (though it will get progressively more salty), you can leave it longer uncovered in the fridge to air dry, you can increase the temperature at which it is smoked (24 C is really the maximum though) or you can increase the air flow through the smoker.

The salt in the cure has already done its work on surface bacteria and as progressively more water is removed and for the relatively short smoking time airborne bacteria are checked by lack of moisture and the mild antiseptic action of the smoke. Botulinum isn't going to be an issue either because the resulting smoked salmon will be stored chilled and eaten within 10 days (or be frozen).

How you achieve the water reduction is really down to individual preference. I keep my method simplified by lightly salting for 24 hours and then smoking with a moderate air flow at 20-24 C for a further 24 hours.

To start with I suggest that you continue as you were planning and leave it smoking overnight. Take a look in the morning and see how it looks. Refrigerate during the day and then smoke again the following night. If after that it looks like you were expecting then that is it. If it still seems a little wet and loose then put it in for a third night. Be careful though as you can gt the salmon too smoky and it can start to taste bitter.

A hint to help keep the air flowing through the smoker... Put a 100w electic light bulb underneath the smoker (yes you probably remember those from before the government made us go energy saving 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





). This will cause the warm air to rise inside and out of the top vent. You will see from my photo with the hanging salmon that I use a couple of reptile heaters in my smoker to manage temperature and encourage air flow. I do have an exhaust fan too though but that may be impractical on the ProQ.


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## sotv

Wade said:


> A hint to help keep the air flowing through the smoker... Put a 100w electic light bulb underneath the smoker (yes you probably remember those from before the government made us go energy saving
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> ). This will cause the warm air to rise inside and out of the top vent. You will see from my photo with the hanging salmon that I use a couple of reptile heaters in my smoker to manage temperature and encourage air flow. I do have an exhaust fan too though but that may be impractical on the ProQ.


Thanks will have a look to see if I can set something up with a light bulb tomorrow, before I start.

One final question would you put water in the pan or just leave it empty, as moisture seems to be what you are trying to avoid when smoking salmon?.


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## wade

sotv said:


> One final question would you put water in the pan or just leave it empty, as moisture seems to be what you are trying to avoid when smoking salmon?.


You can put water in the pan to help buffer the temperature if you think it may get too warm when cold smoking - but it should be covered in foil or clingfilm to help reduce the humidity in the smoker. When I smoked on the bullet smoker, unless I was smoking something that needed to stay cool (like butter or cheese on a warm night) I would leave the water tray empty.


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## Bearcarver

sotv said:


> One final question would you put water in the pan or just leave it empty, as moisture seems to be what you are trying to avoid when smoking salmon?.


This works Great, without adding Humidity:

This Pic is from my old MES 30, with the Jug of frozen water (3/4 full):













ribs and mods 009.jpg



__ tailgate72
__ Oct 26, 2011


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## sotv

The salmon has turned a nice pink/ deep orangy colour  (the photo looks a lot lighter than what it looks like to the naked eye), and firm to the touch like jelly baby or gummy bear consistency. Put it in the fridge to air dry for 12 hours before putting it on for the first of two cold smokes tonight.













IMG_1650.JPG



__ sotv
__ Apr 11, 2017






The holes are where the juniper berries have sunk into the flesh after being pressed down with weight...


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## wade

That is looking good. Yes it does go a lovely orangey colour doesn't it 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. Looking forward to seeing it smoked.

To get the most flavour out of the juniper berries it is a good idea to either cut them in half or to blitz them briefly in a grinder. You should still get sufficient flavour from leaving them whole though.


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## Bearcarver

sotv said:


> The salmon has turned a nice pink/ deep orangy colour  (the photo looks a lot lighter than what it looks like to the naked eye), and firm to the touch like jelly baby or gummy bear consistency. Put it in the fridge to air dry for 12 hours before putting it on for the first of two cold smokes tonight.
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I love that color!!

It's almost the same color as the inside of a Fresh Caught Native Trout, when you just caught it & gut it out. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Bear


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## sotv

Just got it out the smoker. I hope the smoke from oak dust I used dissipates a bit during the rest of today. It has completely took over the cucumber and gin flavour smell and flavour wise, that the salmon had before I put it in. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  

I think just the 1 smoke and not the 2 I was planning will do.


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## wade

sotv said:


> Just got it out the smoker. I hope the smoke from oak dust I used dissipates a bit during the rest of today. It has completely took over the cucumber and gin flavour smell and flavour wise, that the salmon had before I put it in.


Yes the smoke will mask a lot of the delicate flavours. If you want to end up with the bright flavours the salmon is best left unsmoked and prepared/cured like Gravadlax.

Mixing too many techniques is like mixing paints... Individually the colours of the different pots are bright and vibrant - but if mix them all together you inevitably end up with a muddy brown.


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## sotv

i think i have discovered why it tasted so smoky. I tried the very ends of the salmon this morning. Tried quite a bit of it now from 1 inch or so in from the ends of the salmon and the flavour is totally different. Less smoky, so much more tastier, melts in the mouth, cucumber and gin does come through, it is ever so slightly moist and the texture is perfect. After an initial disappointment, really happy with what I have produced. I now have 2kgs of very usable salmon. 

Going to have to freeze some of it due to quantity I have, am i best cutting a whole chunk say 150g to 200g of and freezing it or thinly slicing it first (2kg is a lot to thinly slice to do though in one go).

Couple of pics













IMG_20170412_160107450[1].jpg



__ sotv
__ Apr 12, 2017


















IMG_20170412_161312091[1].jpg



__ sotv
__ Apr 12, 2017






The 2nd photo is much more representative of the actual finished colour and you can see my slicing skills need a lot of practice still.


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## sotv

Wade said:


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> __ Apr 10, 2017
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> Are the hooks you used on the mackerel in the picture these ones or similar?


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## wade

Yes they are. They do several sizes on their direct Web site

https://www.weschenfelder.co.uk/bacon-curing-salt-beef/hooks.html

It looks as if they are cheaper through Amazon - and the shipping is the same whichever way you buy them.


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## sotv

i ordered one off https://hotsmoked.co.uk/accessories/five-prong-bacon-hook.html?___SID=U  got it for £12.25 needed something else off there so got free delivery for over £25. cheers


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