# First smoke on a Kettleman yielded unexpected results, would love some advice for next time!



## thegrimey (Apr 25, 2017)

Hey team,

Nice to meet you all in this sub-forum! Newbie here; I’ve just acquired a Char Broil Kettleman to up my BBQ game, a little gift to myself after hosting a successful cook-up for my birthday every year for the last however many! Last Saturday a pal and myself decided to try smoking for the first time, after reading some positive reviews for the Kettleman in that regard. The sun was out, it was warm-ish - we were good to go!

We decided to opt for a couple of medium size beef short ribs (less bothered about them in this thread) and roughly half a pork shoulder (so bone out). I removed the skin / fat, applied the famous household rub recipe I've been making for years and left them to soak in overnight. Meanwhile I bought a bag of hickory and apple chips, and treated myself (again) with an iGrill Mini thermometer to keep an eye on the ambient temperature and, later on in the cook, the internal meat temperature. Pics here:













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I had lump wood in the house but figured that would be too much like hard work to maintain a steady temperature so bought a bag of non-chemical briquettes and stuck them in a fuse layout, before heating the first batch of 10 or so up in the chimney. Waited till they were white, added to the BBQ - no cigar. They burnt out fairly quickly without catching the next batch and, even though the lid was down, I put this down to the fact it’s still not that warm over here (13-14c, so I guess 55-60f for you guys). We couldn’t clear 120f.













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We decided to opt for the other suggested configuration and stuck the coals on one bank of the bbq, heating up a quite a few more along the way, and sticking the lid down. Result; hit around 220f before too long, and on went the meat on the opposite side with a drip pan underneath. We left the meat thermometer nearby the meat (but not too close) to try and gain an idea of the temperature in the area where it was cooking.

Over the next however many hours, we kept a real close eye on things, adding a few pre-soaked chips after the first 30 mins or so before topping them up a couple more times over the next 6-7 hours. We kept the temperature pretty much exactly between 220 and 240 for the duration (apart from the moments where we had to top the coal up, as you can see from the huge drops in the graph!). The vents on the Kettleman’s lid seemed pretty effective for moderating the temperature as required (sorry for the below pic, running in centigrade in the UK!)...













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After a few hours, we basted in apple juice; the bark was developing nicely. Okay - after this it got a little hazy as a long day in the sun with a LOT of beer took hold, but we didn’t take our eyes off the ball! Even after it got dark. Jeez, it almost feels like looking after a needy child who won’t go to sleep (and I’m sure that’s been said on here before).













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… Anyway, this is the interesting / confusing bit. After nearly seven hours at a constant 220-240f ambient temperature, the bark looked beautiful by this stage and we decided to check the internal meat temperature instead. It was around 160f for the beef and 170f for the pork. Curiosity (okay - hunger) soon got the better of us and we decided to take them off the grill and prod them a bit.

This is where I’m probably revealing my naivety, but hey - I’m happy to be corrected! Cutting into the pork, it was actually quite tough to the point of almost drying out in places. Definitely not pulling in any regard. Parts of it had more the texture of a pork chop. The beef was more pleasing and quite juicy but still, more resembled a steak than tender, flakey meat. Again, see the pics:

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(Beef)













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What I don’t understand is this. With the pork drying out and feeling quite overcooked, it doesn’t feel like cooking it any longer would have changed this effect and left it tender and easy to pull? Am I wrong? It almost feels like it cooked on too high a heat, and too quickly - but if we maintained the correct internal bbq temperature, how can this be? It also hadn’t risen in internal temperature for a good 30 mins by the time we took it out. I thought they'd be ready to foil-wrap by the time they hit the temperatures we served them at, but it sort of feels / tasted like they were beyond saving texture-wise.

Part of me is wondering if it’s the Kettleman. You need a lot less coal to cook as the grate is so much nearer the grill, but we still needed quite a few briquettes (maybe 15 constantly) to maintain the 225f level. I'm also debating if we should've left the thermometer somewhere more central, rather than adjacent to the meat? And maybe the meat should have literally been right on the opposite corner of the grill.

It's also worth noting that the bbq's own ambient temperature gauge was off the chain throughout (I mean, pushing 450-500f so literally double what the iGrill said). This was a bit disconcerting, even though I know these are notoriously inaccurate.

I’m wondering what experiences other Kettleman users have had when smoking, and if you guys had any advice for me? Bottom line is, I’m cooking for a LOT of people this Saturday and would love to try it again, but I really don’t wanna screw it up or leave everyone with thick, chewy chunks of pork like we had last week. I can pass on the short rib. I’ve been slow cooking pork shoulder in my kitchen for years with great success, and am determined to nail smoking if it kills me!

Essay = over. Thanks for reading, guys!


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## noboundaries (Apr 25, 2017)

Hey Grimey, nice write up!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






One of the confusing mysteries of the pork universe is that UNDERCOOKED pork butt/shoulder will taste dry and overcooked.  At 170F Internal temp, you were still 25-30F UNDER where you needed to be.  Pork shoulder/butt, is a heavily exercised muscle with LOTS of connective tissue.  That connective tissue has to melt for the meat to be tender and juicy.  It isn't fluid in the meat that makes it juicy, it is melted connective protein.  Beef brisket and ribs have the same issues.

The beef was probably a little chewy too.  You also needed another 20-30F internal temp for it to be perfect. 

The "probe test" is your best bet for figuring out when a tough cut of meat is done.  You can use a two pronged fork, thermometer probe, toothpick, meat skewer, you get the idea.  When the probe easily slides into the meat with little to no resistance, the meat is ready. 

As far as chamber temp, only experience works there.  Sounds like you are on your way.  Don't sweat high temps; the meat gets done more quickly and will still taste delicious.

Have fun!

Ray


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## thegrimey (Apr 25, 2017)

Hey Ray!

Thanks a lot man, only a quick response for now as the above kept me up an hour past my UK bedtime, but it does definitely sound like impatience got the better of us and we should've left it in for much longer! I never thought tough dry meat would get juicer later down the line.

Only issue is the fact it'd stuck at 75c internal temperature for quite a while before we took it out. Maybe we actually needed to add some more heat? 

I guess one option for the weekend is smoke it for 4-5 hours then wrap and finish for a few hours in the oven, perhaps safer...


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## noboundaries (Apr 25, 2017)

The temp sticking is call "the stall."  The meat is a muscle, and even though it is no longer on a breathing animal, it does what muscles do when they get hot: it sweats out water.  That's fine and absolutely normal.  At lower smoking temps, the stall lasts longer.  And it isn't unusual to see one big stall between 65-75C.  It can last for hours.  Happens on both beef and pork.  The temp can even drop, which is what sweating is supposed to do.  It's all natural and part of the process.


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## thegrimey (Apr 26, 2017)

That's really interesting. I guess if / when that happens, I'll just persevere for a few hours further.

Assuming that wrapping the meat at 70c will accelerate the process, right?


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## noboundaries (Apr 26, 2017)

Tightly wrapping a pork butt or brisket in HD aluminum foil with a little liquid (beer, broth, cider, etc) changes the cooking environment to one of steamed meat.  It will quicken the meat through the stall to the finish.  Once wrapped though, you are no longer smoking.  You can actually increase the smoker temperature, or move it to an oven, which further reduces the time until done.  The upside is your wrapping saves time, catches the fat rendering out of the meat, plus the juices and melted collagen.  All that makes for amazing gravy or jus.  The downside is the outside bark will be soft instead of dry and crispy with intense smoked flavor.  Only you can decide what you like best.


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## GaryHibbert (Apr 26, 2017)

Great first try on a butt.

Ray has you covered really well.  The dreaded stall is always a PIA but its simply a fact of life.  You can either just wait it out or you can foil.  I usually foil and place in the oven at 250* F until the internal temp reaches 205* F for pulled pork.  You can add a cup of apple juice or some drippings to the pan if you like, but it WILL soften the bark somewhat--not a problem for me as my MES doesn't give much bark anyway


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## thegrimey (Apr 26, 2017)

Thank you guys. The bark definitely looked absolutely great last time round, very happy with it for a first try! Just gotta get that meat tenderised better.

Given I'm going to be entertaining for the latter half of Saturday, I think I'm gonna go ahead and smoke it for 5 hours or so then stick it in the oven. Will I retain the crispy bark at that stage if I don't wrap it, or is the oven gonna turn it soggy no matter what due to the lack of air flow compared to a BBQ?

(More novice questions, but bear with me 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## noboundaries (Apr 26, 2017)

I've never done what you suggest, but you should be fine with the bark.  All modern ovens are vented to the inside of the house so you do in fact get some airflow.  Even really OLD ovens were vented outside of the house.


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## sportgd (Apr 26, 2017)

Welcome Grimey! I think we have all been where you are... I find myself taking 12-14 hours for a full pork butt so if I am entertaining at lunch I'll often put it in between 12-2am.  Admittedly I have an electric smoker and use smoking pellets so it is much less hands on while I sleep.  Sometimes time is the best answer when it comes to smoking.  Good luck and happy smoking!


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## thegrimey (Apr 26, 2017)

Cheers Sport! You overnight crew have the right idea. One day...


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## noboundaries (Apr 26, 2017)

Family wants pulled pork for my early BD celebration.  Guess who has to cook!  For my own party!  (Honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way). 

I have a 10 pound, commercially enhanced pork butt I'll be throwing on the smoker tomorrow evening (Thursday) for the party on Saturday.  Going to marinate it tonight for 24 hours in tart cherry juice, teriyaki sauce, minced onion and garlic.  Then an overnight smoke for 15-20 hours, depending on the meat, no wrapping.  Into the refrigerator, then will reheat in a slow cooker for the party.  I'll try to remember and take pictures.


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## thegrimey (Apr 26, 2017)

That sounds INSANE. You have it down to an art.

I can't remember the last time I didn't cook on my birthday, you know my pain well. I'm too much of a kitchen control freak to let anyone else do it though!

What's the commercially enhanced part, out of interest? And regarding chilling then reheating, do you find it survives that process without any issue? I usually cook pulled pork on my birthday in a slow cooker, typically submerged in coke / apple juice / beer, and serve the next afternoon but it rarely gets finished in one go. I find steaming it on the hob in a colander, usually over a pan of ginger beer, gets it up to temperature and nice and moist too.

Do take pics. Very curious.


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## noboundaries (Apr 26, 2017)

theGrimey said:


> That sounds INSANE. You have it down to an art.
> 
> I can't remember the last time I didn't cook on my birthday, you know my pain well. I'm too much of a kitchen control freak to let anyone else do it though!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliment, it made me smile.  I have an internal clock that seems to keep me obsessively focused on whatever I've got in progress.  Once I learned to stop constantly thinking about whatever I had in the smoker, the meat took care of itself.

What's the commercially enhanced part?  Here's a pic of the label of a butt I did three weeks ago.  Notice the part that says "Contains up to 12% blah blah blah," that's the commercially enhanced part.  The butt is injected with a salt brine, tenderizers, and antimicrobial agents.  It may not be natural, but at least it's "Gluten free!"  (Could care less about gluten). 













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I'll be using the same marinade I did on the one above.  My wife raved about it.  Happy wife, happy life!  Here are the onions, garlic, tart cherry juice and teriyaki sauce in the blender.  I had more pics but deleted them by mistake before I downloaded them from the camera.  I'll get more this time. 













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I've never had an issue with reheating.  I actually like the flavor better the day after it is smoked.  If it lasts more than 3 days after smoked, then the flavor starts to degrade a little, but not enough to stop me from eating it.  I've reheated in a crock pot, stove top, oven, microwave, etc.  It all works.


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## sportgd (Apr 27, 2017)

I have never had a problem with having it reheated but always liked pulling it out in front of everyone... not that I couldn't just reheat it in the smoker to give that same effect.... some thinking to do....


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## gigantor (Jan 25, 2019)

The Kettleman grate makes it difficult to do low and slow.  The zig-zag grate design is excellent for searing as the surface temp can get very high.  Even with the snake or C charcoal setup, indirect airflow is not achieved cuz the heat below the grate is directed accross instead of up & over.  Your meat is in contact with a hot surface instead of indirect heat.  Placing a rib rack or standard Weber grate over the Kettleman grate 
could help or just remove use the Weber grate alone.


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