# To sear or not to sear, that is the question.



## smokyokie

We have always seared our briskets before smoking. 

I'm not talking about a little grilling, We're talking about great blazes of beef fat and mesqite or hickory. We sear until the exterior is completely black.

I've never seen anyone talk of searing here. Does anyone else sear first?

I'm adding this link a few months after the original post due to the fact that there have been several requests for info regarding the "SmokyOkie Brisket Method".  For info on this method look here  http://www.recipezaar.com/207187

Good Smoking and Good Eating,

Tim


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## joed617

I have never seared a brisket .. Alton Brown did a show on searing and not searing, compairing the meat and so one and searing does'nt seal in the juice as you may think. Both pieces of meat retained most of thier moisture .. sooo It's your choice... You'll get the color without searng the brisket .. 

Joe


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## jminion

Searing is to carmelize the sugars on the exterior of a steak or ?.
With a brisket we look to create smokering and searing inhibits the formation of smokering. If your rub has sugar in it that would be burned while searing. So  I don't sear.
Jim


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## Dutch

When I do roasts when cooking in the kitchen, I'll sear as the fond (carmelized meat bits) adds to the final gravy. When smoking meats, I never sear.


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## joed617

There you have it, 3 out 4 smokers don't sear..


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## smokyokie

I was taught to do this by an old man that ran a BBQ store for decades.  We've never cooked one any other way, so we can't speak to whether it improves anything or not.  But I can assure you that it does not inhibit smoke ring.  We've been told that our brisket has a "beefier" flavor than any other that they've had.  We think that it probably has to do with the Maillard process that is only achieved @ higher temps as in searing.

I do know that if you poke one of our briskets after 2-3 hours in the smoker, it will squirt a small geyser about 3 feet, but then I don't know if that would be the case with un unseared brskt.  Does anyone else?

Dutch, I guess it's kinda like taking the flavor that you get from the fond, and leaving it stuck on the meat.


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## cajunsmoker

I'm with Dutch on this one.  I always sear my roasts before I put them in the oven(usually coated with pepper, salt and flour) then I make a gravy with the roux left behind.  However I have never seared or seen anyone else sear before smoking.  My .02.


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## smokyokie

There's always room for a first time.  Next time whole packer trims go on sale for $.99#, pick up a 12-13#one and try it.  Place it in a foil pan fat side up in the smoker for 2 hrs then flip for 1 1/2 hrs.  flip it again and cover it. cook it QD.  If you don't think its super, I'll send you a check for your $.99#.  The au jus will be unlike any other, and the skimmed off smokey fat will work magic on any bean recipe.

BTW, Why do you sear your roasts? :?


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## cajunsmoker

I sear my roast's to make some beef juice for my roux.  I then make the gravy and pour it over the roast, potato's, carrots and onions and cover in dutch oven and slow cook in oven.  That is an old family favorite way to cook a Chuck roast.

I definitely am not knocking your way of doing it.  I just never heard of it before.  Believe it or not, there are still *lots* of things I haven't heard of before. :D


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## smokyokie

It's also one of our favorites.  I was just wanting to popintg out that the reason you brown the meat is to get at that deep beefy carmelized flavor that only occurs when meat is seared.  When we sear a brisket, all of that flavor stays on the brisket, and eventually cooks back into the meat.

As far as having lots of things you haven't heard of, I believe that life is over when you have nothing left to learn, and I idin't think you were knocking it.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			














  I think Dutch was, though


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## ultramag

Bump! While I'm not much for resurrecting old threads I believe some life has definately been breathed back into this thread. Some of the members at the gathering weren't around when this was first discussed.

I had forgot the .99 cent per lb. rebate offer Tim. You had better expand on the method a little so PeculiarMike and I don't have to send out for our rebate offer.


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## deejaydebi

I missed this thread before I think it's worth a try rebate or no! I do my steaks that way and pot roasts why not briskets?

I've got faith brother Oky I'll try it without the rebate!


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## pigcicles

Debi I was there from rub to the finishing slice. You won't need no stinking rebate, you'll need a bib. From the mouth of SmokyOky it's "wunnerful" stuff.


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## deejaydebi

Yeah I read it was to die for! What kind of rub do you put on it?


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## pigcicles

That was a SmokyOky pre-blend which I think your favorite brisket rub should work fine... when he comes along in the daylight maybe he will tell all about it. I think he said, but too much went on to remember everything.


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## peculiarmike

I may live south of Peculiar, but I growed up in the Ozarks and am a card carrying hillbilly and general good ol' boy who knows good grub when he eats it. Those at the gathering will attest to the fact I ain't missed any meals.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	




Now.
All I know about this searing thing is this -
I had SmokyOky's brisket at the gathering (and again tonight for supper) and it is *WITHOUT DOUBT* the best brisket I have eaten anywhere.
Oky said it was "overdone". If that is fact then I am sure I could not stand his brisket when it is perfect.
Any brisket prepared at this location in the future WILL BE SEARED.
$.99 rebate?????  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........................


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## zapper

Never seared a brisket, but have no doubt that it would be delishous
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	







To be honest, I am kind of getting tired of the red pepper spice it up BBQ ( I mean I aint too proud to eat it, what do you think? I have lost my mind or something?) But the plain meat flavored meat is kind of a favorite with me. Well, let me explain, I think the term is really savory maybe. Just the simple stuff like onion and garlic and salt or some of the aromatic herbs like sage, rosemary or celery and the carmelized meat and some good ole drippings. Once you have this down, then you can add whatever finishing/dipping sause/ condiment tht you like when the meat is on the plate. Beef bouion (SP) can go a long way to help this out too if it is not too salty.

Mean while back on the ranch.... Keep on searing if it is what you like! And thanks for sharing the thought/idea. Something this simple could have been looked over and lost forever!


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## wht93gted

so, what is the famed method?

I see all these post about following the procedure...well, give it up!!!!


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## cascadedad

Nope, it's a sealed secret now.  Glad I got in on it within the last couple weeks, before it became sealed!!!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Actually, read through the stickies in the "beef" section.  There is one where SmokyOkie explains the process.  I think that is where I learned most.  Then I just asked SmokyOkie a few questions and followed directions.  you can see a few pictures of mine in another thread I started.  I think it was called "First Packer Brisket" or somethink like that.  It is a VERY simple method.  I feel it is pretty much impossible to screw up.

As I said in the other thread, one of the benefits besides the fact that it makes outstanding brisket is the fact that it is done quicker because you cook at around 260* to 270*.  I GUARANTEE you do not have to cook at 225* to 230* to get tender brisket.

I seared mine using Cowboy lump on my Weber grill.  It was VERY easy and quick.  I paid $1.98 per lb for my brisket, but no rebate was necessary.


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## ultramag

Here is the most concise start to finish version I know of:

http://www.recipezaar.com/207187


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## wht93gted

awesome...thanks!


I have a question though...if it's covered in foil, then is there really any need to "smoke" it?

can't i just keep the temp at 200-250 with my hardwood charcoal and not worry about adding hickory chunks to keep the smoke up? I really don't see any reason to waste my chunks of hickory if the meat is covered.

does that make any sense?


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## javajoe

If I smoke late at night, after I foil I will even sometimes put it in the oven. We keep the windows open at night upstairs with a fan on and the smoke just fills the room. Your just tenderizing anyway...right?


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## deejaydebi

I often transfer meat to the oven when I do a late smoke. Once it's wrapped it's not getting smoke anyway and the little beeper will wake me up when it's done.


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## cascadedad

I'm plugging my ears through all this.


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## squeezy

I'm just wondering how well the smoke penetrates after searing???


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## richoso1

Ok, I'll bite. In the morning/afternoon I'm going to sear and smoke a tri tip, I usually grill this type of cut. May the smoke be with me...


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## pigcicles

If you re-read the article it says to put in a foil pan and smoke for 2 hrs fat side up, then flip and smoke for another hour fat side down (note that you don't cover the brisket at this point). During that time is when you are penetrating the meat with the smoke. It does work very well... I guess the only thing to do is just give it a go per instructions and see what you think.. you can always go back to your other way of doing brisket if you don't think it is worth the effort.

Keep Smokin


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## richtee

Doing a brisket Sat, and will try sear. And THIS time I'll take some pix..

"We're talking about great blazes of beef fat and mesqite or hickory. We sear until the exterior is completely black."

Should make for some interesting photography, if nothing else...heh.


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## hawgheaven

I tried this method with the last brisket I did... it was the best brisket I'd ever done or tasted! I'm doing another one this Saturday... 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Stay tuned...


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## wht93gted

sorry...I meant at the point when it is covered in foil 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I think I'll just throw it in the oven after the first 3 hours...this way my smoker will have more room to load some other things


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## cascadedad

Richtee, maybe you did not see my pictures.  This was my first packer.  I was a little nervous about the whole process, but can't wait to do it again.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...ead.php?t=7515


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## richtee

I'm now a confirmed searer. Not only good, but plain ole fun too. Shoulda seen the bro's expression with that 143,000 BTU producing brisket just flaming away...hahahaha..priceless!


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## javajoe

Anybody on the West Coast know where to get a large packer? The only one's I find are flat


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## deejaydebi

Looks very good. I'm going to have to try that.


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## pigcicles

So after several have tried the searing method, I feel maybe the question should be asked again... When it comes to brisket... should you sear or not? 

I say 'Holy Blazin Brisket Batman... Sear the Brisket!'


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## peculiarmike

I'm a confirmed searer, ain't goin' back. Blacken that hunk 'o meat!


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## navionjim

I posted this on a different thread but it should have been here.

After hours of research last week I set out to try my hand at a brisket using SmokyOkie's method of searing over a hot lump charcoal fire then smoking it in a pan for 2 hours fat side up and another fat side down, then foiling and letting it go at 240F until done. I lubed up a 12 pounder with yellow mustard and applied a thick coat of Jeff's rub the day before smoking. It was the first time I've used Jeff's rub by the way. I cremated the brisket until black and slid it in the smoker using post oak and pecan for the fire.

I got sidetracked at that point working on a Boston butt I was also doing for pulled pork, again with Jeff's rub, so the brisket ended up going for about 3 hours on each side in good smoke. It was getting late and I figured that being in foil it wouldn't matter if I left it in the smoker or (OK now the purists out there can nail me up for this) put it in my fancy $2,500.00 oven at 200F, which I did. Both the brisket and the butt stayed in the oven over night and the next day I opened the foil and drained off the juices to separate them. I removed the fat layer and added some of it to a pot of beans, the clean juice I saved to pour back over the sliced brisket. 

Getting that sucker out of the pan without it falling apart was a chore! But it seamed like a good sign that it could be that tender. I spent some time making the finishing sauce for the pulled pork. Sliced the brisket poured the juice over it and put both the brisket and the butt back in the oven to work on the beans and cornbread. That afternoon I had 11 guests over for supper and apart from a couple of bites to taste the brisket and pork I didn't even get a plate! That thing was gone in 20 minutes and everyone raved about it. I have to say that wast the most tender best tasting brisket I have ever had! My hats off to SmokyOkie for teaching me this trick.

While I meant to get a few pictures it just didn't happen, and it disappeared so fast there really wasn't much of a chance to take any anyway. The wife is sort of mad at me for spending all weekend cooking but hell it was raining anyway. I think it was well worth it and a culinary feat I will definitely be repeating. If y'all haven't tried setting a brisket on fire, well you should, you'll love the results!

Jimbo


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## smokyokie

Glad to be of service Jim.

I've never tried the mustard thing, I've never been big on mustard and beef together.  Did the mustard get in the way of the sear?, I mean was it the mustard that got seared, or the meat?  I usually just ise a good rub, wrap tightly in plastic and refrigerate overnight.


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## squeezy

So how do you know when it is 'black' enough? Approximately how long does it take to sear? Sorry, if I see a little ignorant of the process, but before I commit to this method, I have to get my head around it.


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## pigcicles

Take a look at the pics from SmokyOkie's Christening party for Lucille (the smoker). You will see the pics of searing toward the end pgs. 4, 5, & 6.

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t38/PigCicles/


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## smokyokie

When it goes from brown to black.  Remember, the main thing you're going to accomplish is to add flavor by caramelixzing the beef (Maillard process).  The meat is so thick that you won't hurt it if you overdo it a bit, and by the same token, you don't lose that much if you underdo it a bit.  It'll also jump start the cooking process a bit by raising the meat temp much faster than if you just stuck it in a 250* smoker.


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## ultramag

I have to say both I guess. The searing method produces an amazing end product, but it is so totally different that I will still have to have a "traditionally" prepared brisket sometimes.


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## squeezy

Thanks .... I see the how to ... how long to achieve?


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## squeezy

Doesn't it block smoke penetration to some degree?


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## cascadedad

I'd guess the 2 I have done took a little less than 5 minutes each.  The first one I did was about 11 lbs and the second about 13 I think.

They can be kind of hard to handle.  LOTS of heat and big floppy piece of meat.  My dogs were hovering around.  I could read it in their eyes.  "Come on you idiot, DROP IT, DROP IT!!!"


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## pigcicles

I haven't ever timed the process, but would estimate approx. 20 minutes give or take to sear black all sides. You can go back to hit the lighter spots if need be.

 It may to some degree, but I think once you try it the flavor will be outstanding. 

I agree with Ultramag on the other methods of doing brisket. Sometimes you will want to do an all nighter.

Give it a try Paul and let us know how YOU like it... it may not be your cup of tea.. but so far everyone who has tried it, loves it.... My 2 pennies worth.


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## cascadedad

Wow, 20 minutes, my estimation must be way off.  You know what they say, time flies when you're havin fun.


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## pigcicles

It may be my estimate is way off.. I don't track time well when I'm smokin. It could be closer to the 10 minute mark overall... time searing, smoking (unfoiled and foiled) approx 8 -9 hours vs. 12 - 14+ hrs low N slow overnight... so I lose a few minutes here and there


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## fatback joe

Anyone try this in a competion?  If so, how did it score?


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## cascadedad

PigCircles,  After I thought about it a little more, I too would think somewhere around 10 minutes for the searing.

I really like cooking at the higher temp and therefore reducing the smoker time.  Can get up and start at around 5:00 a.m. and can be finished by about 2:00 p.m.


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## navionjim

Howdy Tim,
Well I was using a few suggestions from the group and I believe it was Squeezy who told me about the mustard. I've used it on bass to stick the batter on when frying before and on pork butt of course, this was also my first time using it on beef. The truth is you would never know it was there, it just helps hold more of the rub on the meat. the mustard has no flavor or imparts any after the cooking that I can tell, it's just glue for the coating or rub in this case.

When I seared it I put it fat side down first like you said to do and then waited as long as I could stand to watch that bonfire, a couple of minutes anyway before I was almost sure it was totally burned up. I'm sure it seared the meat itself because the fat was feeding that fire something fierce!

I was surprised to see how much the brisket shrank during the long slow cook and I ended up with about a quart or more of juice in the pan. I'll never smoke another one any other way though! Thanks for sharing your method!


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## navionjim

PigCicles;87113 said:
			
		

> I haven't ever timed the process, but would estimate approx. 20 minutes give or take to sear black all sides. You can go back to hit the lighter spots if need be.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing it depends on how much charcoal you have under it. I'd be surprised If it took more than three or four minutes a side to do mine, but I had a whole chimney of lump blazing away under it and once the fat started to render it was flame on big time!~. As someone else said it's a chore even with long tongs to get a grip on 13 pounds of flaming fat! Mighty warm flipping that thing over and dragging it back int the pan.


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## smokyokie

Seared *is *traditional to us.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	









About 10 min. depending on the heat source

Au contraire, if you cook it in a pan it steeps in the smoky goodness and actually enhances it


Fireplace tongs help. I have a 2 1/2' long meat fork that I use. I think you can see Pec. mike weilding it in Joe's pix.
 I don't do comps, but if beefy flavor scores points, I think it'd do well. Why not try one and see what you think.


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## fatback joe

SmokyOkie;87143 said:
			
		

> Yeah, I am looking forward to giving it a try, always up for something new (to me).  The question about use in comps was just a curiosity thing.  I plan on giving it a whirl in the backyard regardless.
> 
> I have seared a few towards the end of the smoke session, but that is another story.


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## smokyokie

Fatback Joe;87152 said:
			
		

> I wish briskets were the only thing I'd done that to.


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## kew_el_steve

If "It is important not to pierce the meat from this point until it is done", how do you know when it hits 200?


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## gypsyseagod

i've never seared a brisket as usually ican't fit that fat thing into the firebox, i hate to fork the meat,and they're generally just too heavy to flop around to deal with. but this last 1 i did trim as it was really fatty(6" plus) on top & a junk cut. so what i did was sear the chunked fat & add 1 to the beans & a couple others to when i flipped the meat cap down....hey- that worked really well. but now when i cook pork in the oven or roast- i braise all the time. i'll do the sear the next brisket as i liked the taste & the sear worked well on the fat for beans so it doesn't just melt. thanx for the tips s.o.


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## smokyokie

It's the jiggle test.  PM pigcicles or pec. mike about the jiggle test.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	

















Actually I cooked briskets for over 25 years before I ever stuck a thermo into one.  A 12-14 pounder will take about 8 hrs.  It really doesn't have to be that precise.  Some may turn out a little more tender, some may end up a little less tender, but they'll all be good.  You'll get that much variation from cut to cut anyway.


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## kew_el_steve

Did one the Smoky Okie way. I'll never, ever do it any other way. The smell when it's over that hot lump is amazing. Only took 8 hours and it was plenty jiggly. About a quart of juice in the pan is about right. Stuck a thermo in it at the end; 200+. Did four hours in the smoker (two on each side) and fours hours (didn't touch it, only peeked) in the oven covered at 235. I'll cut back the oven to 225 and/or time to stop at 190 next time.

Marinate in Zesty Italian works great too, BTW.

A sincere thanks to Smoky Okie Tim for this technique.


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## clyde

I'm sure he would appreciate your thanks.


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## kew_el_steve

Already did...


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## low&slow

I was going to try this famous SmokyOkie method this weekend, but I am concerned about the bark.
The last time I cooked a brisket in a pan fat cap up my bark came out all soggy. I didnt sear it, I rubbed it with mustard and rub and smoked it for about 6 hours and it got a good bark on it. Then I put it in a pan (fat cap up) for for the remainder of the time. When it was done and I flipped it over I was disappointed to see my bark was soggy. My question is, if I sear the heck out of this thing will it keep a good bark while being face down in its own juices for that long? I like a good bark.


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## squeezy

I can't see how it would not get soggy ... most of the time it is under foil.

I think this method has a lot of merit, however there are many methods that are also good.

Today's word is 'compromise' ... to achieve one thing, you have to give up something else and viceversa.

My humble opinion.


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## kew_el_steve

This method won't give you a great, visual bark like a pork butt will. But the taste will be totally outrageous if you put your fears aside (yes, I had to put my faith completely in the great Smoky Okie Zen Master). I admit, it's hard to do the first time. Follow his instructions to the letter. I did and I will never do another any other way. Let the Smoky Okie be with you...LOL


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## mossymo

I picked up a 13.25 lb. packer brisket to smoke hopefully on Sunday. For anyone who has tried this, do you trim any fat off or just torch the begesus out of it? 

Other question, I see you talking about trimming off the tips. Is this suggested with theis recipe? I have never made brisket before, so this is all new to me.


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## richtee

I trimmed to .5 inch, rubbed and etc... and did the bejesus thing. BLACK.





















Thank you Okie!
Direct questions to him, as I'm convinced.


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## kew_el_steve

I trimmed it to about 1/4" and separated the point from the flat, leaving as much as I could of the fat from the separation with the flat. Marinaded in Kraft Zesty Italian for a day. 

Wiped it off. Used straight pepper for a rub right before fire. Started two chimneys of lump. Put both on my Weber and added more on top; coals were about 1" below the grate -- it was hotter than hell!!! Seared the livin chit out of it on each side twice and on the edges of each piece. 

Put each piece in a foil pan and smoked for two hours. Turned each piece over and did two more hours. Hickory and Mesquite. 50/50. Cover the pan with foil and in to the oven with a thermo.

Unreal taste. I need longer tongs. That bad boy got HOT during sear. Overcome your fear of burning the meat and follow his instructions. I like to stop at about 190.


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## peculiarmike

Just DO it.


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## navionjim

After chatting with Okie Ive done three of these now and will never do it any other way. I trimmed just enough (3/4 pound) to make the "Goodie's" finishing sauce on off the third one I did. No trimming at all on the others. Flame on big time and lots of juice in the pan. The cool thing is that it's much easier to trim after it's done smoking than it is before cooking.


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## porkbutt

That does it... I'm doin' a brisket soon! My Pop will probably disown me. He says if it ain't pork it ain't bbq. I've always agreed. If there is a chance to convince us otherwise, this sounds to be it. Will post up after I try it. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Man, it's gonna be hard letting that brisket get that black...


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## pigcicles

porkbutt - use a rub that is low on sugar or no sugar. It will burn and leave a bitter taste. Also if you question the amount of black, go a little lighter on the sear.. but the black doesn't ruin it at all. It adds to the flavors.

Keep in mind that brisket is classic barbeque along with pork.

Bring us the Q-view from your brisket.


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## porkbutt

Yeah, I figure I will be a bit more reserved with the sear. Will try to exercise faith and let it go a little past when my instinct says pull it though. Will also watch the contents of the rub. Thanks for that heads up. 

And I know beef is classic bbq... That just ain't how I was raised. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 I've ordered brisket in bbq joints and Pop always looks at me like I'm crazy. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





He'd probably rather hear that I'm getting a sex change than to hear I'm bbqing beef. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





And if I can get past the shame of it all, I'll post up the Q-view. 

Just kiddin' of course. Pop doesn't come here.


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## clyde

If you use the SmokyOkie method to do your brisket, I predict that you won't settle for restaurant brisket ever again.

Also, sounds like you must be from the southeast based on you dad's thoughts on pig meat, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, the Carolinas?
Down ther somewhere where the only choices on the BBQ menu is inside or outside cut?

EAT MORE COW MEAT!


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## deejaydebi

There were a few different guys at the Oinktober Fest in Buffalo that did seared briskets. I don't know how they ranked but they didn't take home any prizes. It may be to different for the judges or maybe they had a rub that stunk - who knows? 

I know one team smoked on this HUGE webber kettle big enough to bathe in! It was enormous! The other guys used a real pretty vertical that looked like an old fashioned refrigerator with a side fire box - can't remember the brand but I remember he said he paid $1500 for it.


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## fatback joe

The weber ranch kettle.........those things are huge.........something like 1,110 sq. in. of grid space........that is a big kettle.

Yeah, in the comps things seem to stick some what close to "traditional" lines.........Too sweet......too spicy........anything too......doesn't seem to do well.  Seems like briskets get the comment of "it should taste like brisket and not like a pot roast".  LOL

It doesn't matter much, I was just curious if anyone here had tried it in a contest........heck, maybe I will one day.


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## hawgheaven

Try it on any beef roast... here's a beef shoulder I did:







Can you tell which one it is?


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## fatback joe

I can't tell.  But what is that meteor on the right?  LOL


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## hawgheaven

Dinner...


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## homebrewru

I'm  comin' into this one kind of late, but for my two cents:  I learned this method of cooking brisket from a guy in Alabama.  I didn't even know it had a name.  I sear the #%*@! out of it, smoke it for about 3 hours, then seal it and finish it.  The au jus is amazing.  My buddy in Alabama does not even smoke his.  He sears it over coals, seals it in foil and then goes straight to the oven.  While I prefer the smoke flavor, his is still better than most BBQ briskets.  All I know is what tastes good (or in this case, great!) and I have to agree with Tim.  This is the way to cook brisket.  Try it for yourself and see.  See what the reaction is from others.  It never comes out dry.


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## hawgheaven

The first time I did this, my wife thought I was nuts! I told her just wait till it is plated before making judgement. She loves it.

And yes, I am nuts, but in a good way...


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## deejaydebi

Mark -

Sounds like the way my Mama did all big beef meats. She Seared and then they went into a dutch oven in the oven - sometimes on top of the stove. Best part was the gallons of gravy and bisquits!


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## porkbutt

You're right... I'm in Georgia. I'm willing to expand my horizons though. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 Most of my drama about beef bbq was actually in humor... but I really haven't been exposed to good bbq beef. I love the briskets I've done in my oven though, so I can't wait to try this. Gives me a use for my Weber Kettle which hasn't been used for anything but a stand for my starter chimneys since I got the smoker. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





And yes, most joints around here only offer the options of inside, outside, sliced or chopped/pulled.


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## wavector

There is no question about, sear and Okie Dokie Smokie Okie Method. OMG!

Beyond heaven. I don't think I'll ever smoke any other piece of meat. My goodddnnnesss. Dats sum good eating.

Just finish a 12 pounder using the Smokie Okie Method. had a little taste, my, my, my.


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## smokeys my pet

I did my first without seering over this past weekend and it turned out awesome. Until I run into a proplem I believe I will continue to not seer at this time. I am not against the seering but if it's not broken don't fix it.


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## richtee

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, if we're spouting platitudes   ;{)


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## hawgheaven

True, but how about talking yourself into, "If it is good now, maybe I can improve on it..."


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## fatback joe

I think I know where he is coming from.  I tried the searing also recently and liked it.   I don't know that it was better or worse, just different.  I will keep it mind for a change of pace from time to time, but probably won't sear on a regular basis just on personal preference.

Now if I though the searing was just hands down better, then I would sear the majority of the time..........to sear or not to sear.........who cares, do what you like.  LOL


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## clyde

A wise man once said "To the creative mind, perfection is a temporary state."


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## smokyokie

Yeah, what Joe said!


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## smokeys my pet

As I said I am not against seering and will most likely try it on the next one. I love this forum.


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## funkadelic73

So when you sear, do you sear the edges as well? Is it just a top-bottom? Do I need to worry about the edges being seared as well? I can't wait to give this a try!


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## navionjim

Burn it! Seal everything, two large tongs are a must!
Jimbo


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## smokyokie

Its really not about sealing in the juices, its more about generating that deep beefy seared flavor like you get out of a good steak.  The more sear you get, the more flavor you get.  By preheating the meat, you also reduce total cooking time.


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## navionjim

That makes a lot of sense to me, and as usual I will gladly bow to the master! People rave about my briskets now and I owe it all to your advice. 

BTW Okie, have you noticed the new fella who just signed into roll call as Smokin Okie? Man that could get confusing..
NavionJim


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## mossymo

Navionjim
I agree with everything in your last post, I also owe it to SmokyOkie for helping me smoke the best peice of brisket due to the high flaming sear. 

Also agree that it is going to be confusing with 2 talented smokers, one going by SmokyOkie and the other going by SmokinOkie !!!


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## smokyokie

I know the man.. He is a master smoker.


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## richtee

'Nuff said I guess then. We'll just be on our toes with the sharp barbs  ;{)

"SmokyOkie Method rules!"


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## meandmytwodogs

I think I know the answer to my own question but just want to run it by the pros.....Is a brisket labled "Whole Brisket" the same as a "Packer's Cut"?
I have not found anyone in Omaha selling Packers, but at the Bag and Save and Sam's Club they have Whole. It sure doesn't look like anything was trimmed off, but I had to ask. I plan to try the searing method as the burny charred flavor is one of my favorite parts of grilling/smoking.

Thanks in advance.
Dave


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## ba_loko

Dave,

A packer brisket will be the entire brisket consisting of the flat and the point.  I don't recall seeing one labeled "whole brisket", but I would expect it to be the same.


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## smokyokie

If it has a big hump on one end and the other is much thinner and its about 18" long or longer, then it prolly is a packer trim.  If it weighs more than 6# then it prolly is a PT


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## abelman

Okie,

Here's a question that I ran across looking through a thread on Tri-tips. You were questioning someone on searing a flat.

Would you do a hard sear on a point if you're not doing a whole packer?

I love brisket and have a pretty good system. Although, I've never seared one and have always done flats or points, never a packer. So, I'm curious and want to try the sear.

Thanks!


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## smokyokie

I'd be nervous about searing a naked flat.  There;s a lot of potential for drying out there, even if you foil it.

I wouldn't think you would hurt a point if it still had all it's fat on it.

I'm curious, why don't you want to do a whole PT?


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## abelman

Just because I haven't ever done one and don't think I could get it to fit on a vertical. I guess I could cut it but I'm not sure how. 

So, I usually do cuts like this which is 5 lbs. which also has a good fat cap underneath.



This is what I would look at searing.


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## richtee

Wipe it with bacon grease heavily and SEAR it! The Malliard reaction will make you a believer. It's not about the fat on the meat..it's about somehow searing it well.

Trust me. I'll refund your money if you don't think it's better!


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## abelman

Thanks, perhaps even some 6-15 in the rub 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I'll give it a try. I assume you're talking about grease from the pan after cooking the bacon just to be clear.


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## smokyokie

You mean you don't save ALL your bacon grease?

I'd be a little gentle on the naked side just because the cut is a little thinner, but sear the p*** out of the fat side.


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## abelman

Smokie, gotcha and we'll see what happens, Thanks!

As for the bacon grease, believe it or not, we don't eat a lot of bacon around here for whatever reason. The only time is when things pop up in recipes like this for example. 

As for ABTs, I've been dong them for years and always without bacon and still prefer them that way.


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## meandmytwodogs

I went to the store yesterday and picked up one a "whole brisket" It's deffinetly whole, but is only 6 1/4 lbs. I kinda reluctantly picked this one up. Am wondering if it is going to be to small to sear safely. Whithout drying it out on the end I mean. The thinnest part of the flat is just less than an inch or so think and tapers up along the edge to closer to 2 inches. Nice fatty side. Aw hell.I love some burt ends! Never mind my doubt. I'm torchin this thing. I'll start my own thread when I get it going Saturday with lots of pics.
See you then!
Dave


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## navionjim

Don't worry Dave, I do small one all the time and only use SmokyOkie's searing method, I think the small ones are a bit more tender then the big packers, and they smoke somewhat faster too. Plus you don't need so many coals to sear and they are much easier to handle with two sets of tong while searing than a 15lb monster is. Even still, pick the most flexible one you can find and go by Smoky's step by step method. You'll love it.
Jimbo


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## coyote

I am very new to smokeing.But I have been cookin fer a while. And I think that most of you from what I have read have taken this art of smoking to a level I have not seen most any place else. makes it feel that I have tons to learn and experiment with. which I am going to do.

On this post about searing... several months ago I was invited to attend a promotion ceremony and party for a good friend. I was asked if I would make the Rice, salsa, wings and a brisket. now, I have never made a brisket and have only tasted them and thought they tasted like crap nothing but fat and grease, so I have never fooled with them.. ( I never tasted one that a good cook did.)
I looked on the internet to find a recipe and kinda get an idea how to cook one. ( I had not seen this forum as yet) I have cooked very little meat in my oven, but tons of animal parts on my grills. I found one of Emeril's recipes for brisket and it was cooked in the oven. I did a little modifications to it and pretty much followed his directions.
One of which was searing the brisket. which I normally do to all the beef meat I grill. emeril's searing was pre heat the oven to 500 then stick the meat in untill brown on top the turn it over and and brown the other side.
any way at the party there were over 12 briskets brought in some cooked by experts that have been smoking for years.
mine was the 1st one gone and every one wanted to know who cooked it. and said it was the best they ever eaten. (thank you emeril) I like searing as i like the crust that it gives to the meat on the outside..I found this and copied and pasted. hope it helps with the cornfussion..
*Searing*

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


Jump to: navigation, search



 
Cheese-topped sushi is seared using a blow torch


*Searing* (or *pan searing*) is a technique used in grilling, roasting, braising, sautÃ[emoji]169[/emoji]ing, etc. that cooks the surface of the food (usually meat, poultry or fish) at high temperature so that a caramelized crust forms. A similar technique, browning, is typically used to sear or brown all sides of a particular piece of meat, fish, poultry, etc. before finishing it in the oven. To obtain the desired brown crust, the meat surface must exceed 300 Â°F (150 Â°C), so searing requires the meat surface be free of water, which boils at around 212 Â°F (100 Â°C).[1]
It is commonly believed that searing locks in the moisture or "seals in the juices" of the food. However, it has been scientifically shown[2] that searing results in a greater net loss of moisture versus cooking to the same internal temperature without first searing. Nonetheless it remains an essential technique in cooking meat for several reasons:
The browning creates desirable flavors through caramelization and the Maillard reaction.
The appearance of the food is usually improved with a well-browned crust.
The contrast in taste and texture between the crust and the interior makes the food more interesting to the palate.
Typically in grilling the food will be seared over very high heat and then moved to a lower-temperature area of the grill. In braising, the seared surface acts to flavor, color and otherwise enrich the liquid in which the food is being cooked.

*[edit] Sealing in the juices*

The belief that searing meat "seals in the juices" is widespread and still often repeated. This theory was first put forth by Justus von Liebig,[2] a German chemist and food scientist, around 1850. The notion was embraced by contemporary cooks and authors including Auguste Escoffier.
Simple experimentation can test the theory: cook two similar cuts of meat, searing one first and not the other. Weigh the end results to see which loses more moisture. (The Food Network program Good Eats carried out such a test in episode EA1H22, _Myth Smashers_.) As early as the 1930s, such experiments were carried out; the seared roasts lost the same amount of moisture or more. (Generally more, since searing exposes the meat to higher temperatures.)
In short, the meat created by searing is in no way waterproof. Moisture in liquid and vapor form can and does continue to escape from a seared piece of meat. For this reason, searing is sometimes done at the end of the freezing process to gain the flavor benefits of the caramelization as well as the benefits of cooking for a greater duration with more moisture.


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## meandmytwodogs

Just got back from the W.M. and they did have actual "packers". The diff is that the "whole brisket" that I have looks like the one pictured a few threads earlier but mine has more jib (fat) on the top plus the cap on the bottom. What they have at W.M. also had a large hunk of fat and meat hanging off the thick end of the brisket. And the price was almost half (per lb) of what I paid. So there is a diff. I wish I could post a pick to show you but will start a new thread for the weekend tonight after work with documentation along the whole way. LOTS OF QVIEW! I am also going to do a whole chicken and a package of drumsticks. Smoked chicken legs are one of my most fav bbq foods. I'm getting so excited. the weather here is going to suck tomorrow. 
But I'm on it.

Dave


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## meandmytwodogs

Great post Coyote!
Thanks for the info.

Dave


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## richtee

And that's the rest of the story.

Pick up "On Food And Cooking" for a complete technical tour de force of all the scientific points of culinary arts.


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## bbq bubba

That is a flat cut brisket......without the point!


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## smokyokie

While I don't make any claims about sealing juices and preventing moisture loss, I did see that episode of good eats and by my observation, Mr Brown was far from scientific in his methods.  One thing that did catch my attention was the thinness of the me he used to disprove the theory.

I sear primarily for flavor but am very curios about the effect that muscle fiber contraction has on moisture retention in thicker cuts of meat.  It is my observation that sear heat causes the outer fibers of the meat to contract and this is demonstrated by the contortion of the emat as it sears.  I have also made the mistake of poking a brisket with a thermo probe while it was still in the contraction phase of it's cooking.  The resulting geyser when the probe was removed was unlike anything else I'd ever  experienced.

I'm not saying that the result is any more moist than with an unseared brisket.  In the end, by the time the meat is cooked to 195Â°-200Â°, re absorbtion is taking place anyway.

I will say this, by my understanding, anybody that wants cn add to Wikipedia and therefore one should never rely on iy as a credible source.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  The fact that an "encyclopedia quotes a television show as scientific evidence supports that theory.

In the end, I have found that searing not only improves flavor, but the hard preheat generated by searing speeds cooking time with not deleteious effects to the meat.

Just my nickels' worth.

Smoke 'em up boys!


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## dwayne

I sear almost sear  any meat I can it always helps to keep twice the  moisture than not searing  good luck................It depends on the meat and the cook and equipment and time good luck..............


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## smokyokie

Its really more about the flavor than anything else.


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## richtee

That's ALL it's about Okie. All the moisture retention things have been shot down years ago. It's science. The Malliard browning reaction changing the amino acids/proteins in the meat is the whole deal.

Is there anything better than the bottom of a long cooked pot roast pan?!? ANYTHING?

On Edit: I do think my trial of searing and THEN rubbing had some merit. A good sear really knocks he-double-hockeystix outta a rub. Sear then rub for a different..if not better- flavor.


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## mickster

I read through all 14 pages of Searing and am glad I stumble on this post. I rarely do a full brisket because A) Kosher meat is $7-12/lb. for brisket! B) I have a very small offset smoker (Char broil American Gourmet not yet modified) and it has 220 sq. inches C) I have only 3 people living in my household total and one is less than 3  years old (although he LOVES my smoked meats) D) I like the smaller cuts.

Now to searing....

My office mate is from Houston and she says she and her hubby ALWAYS sear first. I've done it both ways now and I'm not really sure which way I like better and which is juicier.

I think I'll make 2 pieces (about 2 lbs. each) and sear one and not the other; I'll rotate them around the smoker so they get even cooking, then we'll see...

It will be a week or two until the Great Searing Experiment 2008 but I'll post results...

Good Smoking'

Michael


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## smokyokie

The searing is not about the juiciness, it's about the flavor.  Think of it this way, which has more and better flavor, a seared steak or an unseared steak?  Brisket is no different than steak in that regard.

The rest of the method is about juiciness.

If you do a smaller cut just be sure to leave the fat on until after cooking and sea it a little more lightlyto prevent it from drying out.


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## meandmytwodogs

I ended up not searing the flat I'd discussed in this post but did later find a whole Packers cut brisket and did try the searing method on that one. I have to say that I thought that the seared brisket tasted way better! It had a great beefy charry flavor. From now on I will always get a packers cut (seal up the leftovers) and I will always sear first. It was awsome!

Dave


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## smokyokie

Glad you enjoyed it Dave!


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## mickster

Well I did the test and the non-seared tasted better. The rub formed a nicer crust and it had a better smoke ring.

I'm a non-searer from now on. Mind you I like sear on the steak, just not on the brisket/shoulder/etc.

Good Smokin'

Michael


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## richtee

I had done a modified sear...rubbed AFTER the sear. I think the flavor and bark were better. One more thing to try eh?  ;{)


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## desertlites

yesterdays 12.5# brisket was cut in half-to fit in the smoker-I seared but not as hard as I did in the throwdown with sumosmoke-that 1 I rubbed than seared-this 1 I seared than rubbed-let sit a couple hrs. than smoke-finished in the oven last few hrs.was my best so far!!!will be my way from now on. Thanks Rich for turning me onto the sear-than rub.


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## richtee

Yer welcome Des. If ya think about it, it only makes sense not to fry off all that tasty rub.


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## crawdad

Alton Browns episode was about a rib eye steak.  We're talking briskets here.  HUGE difference in the searing and what is being accomplished.  Alton seared for just a little bit.  here were talking about searing it so severely it looks ruined


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## teleburst

How about searing pork butt? Any ideas about that?


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## mickster

I've been thinking about this but...

How long do you put on the rub for before cooking again?

Can you elaborate on what you do to prep. the brisket and prepare it?

Thanks!

Michael


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## closer

I did my first Brisket yesterday, Whole Packer from Walmart 13.7lbs. Used the Smokyokie method, seared all sides, then threw in a pan in the smoker fat side up between 245 and 260 for 2 hrs flipped for 1 hr, then foiled BUT the brisket came up to 205* 3.5 hrs into the foil. Has anyone had this happen? I did not trim the brisket at all prior, and it had a thick maybe 1 inch fat cap. The brisket is tender, but sliced just fine. My only complaint is that it seemed a little dry through the flat. Any suggestions or thoughts on the quick finish? I mean 6.5 hrs for 205* on a 14 lb brisket??? should I back the heat off to 225? 

I didn't get as much juice as others seem to get. 

So I decided to make a variation to the lone steer finishing sauce. I mixed the juice with the below and simmered un covered for 45 minutes.

I should add, it's delicious!

1.5 cups ketchup
.5 cup Jack Daniels
2 limes squeezed
2 lemons squeezed
.5 cup brown sugar
2 tsp onion powder
1 tbsp Paprika
1tsp red pepper flake


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## richtee

Sometimes ya get a weird hunk-o-meat. That IS rather remarkable. You sure on the accuracy of the smoker temps?


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## closer

Pretty sure.  I stuck a dial thermo in there and was getting the same temps.


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## zapper

@Closer

What Richtee says and maybe more. The temps are what I would consider just a fuzz high, that could have alot to do with the time and dryness. Did you foil and allow to rest after the cook? This gives the meat a chance to reclaim some of the moisture that was driven off during the cooking. Ain't no shame if it is a bit tough and or dry as long as it taste good, slice it thinner and serve with plenty of Au jus or other gravey concoction!


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## closer

Zapper you're right as long as it tastes good I don't care!  

I did tent foil it for 1.5 to 2 hrs rest before slicing.  I have read many posts regarding wrapping and putting in a cooler, should I be doing this?  What is the benfit, also I plan on doing my first Boston Butt 13 lbs next weekend, should I cooler this or just tent foil after cooking?


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## zapper

My take on foiling is to foil usually somewhere around 160 or so, depending on when I catch it as I mop or otherwise tend to things. (No real hard number) My take on foiling is pretty much a complete, sealed, wrap. But... as soon as I stab the thermo into it .... Anyhow if I am using a mop or have something on hand, I add a cup or so of liquid to the foiled meat and let it cook to what ever finished temp that I am shooting for (190 ish depending). Then, very carefully, (Because things always seem to leak for me) I bundle it in a towel or two and set aside in a cooler or add an extera towel or two to that and leave on a table or counter depending on cooler availability or counter space. Some folks have pretty good luck with foil pans or regular pans and then a tight foil seal over the top, I am gonna try this sometime. The point or effect of foiling and adding liquid is almost steaming the meat right at the end of the cooking. There is one trade off though, your bark crunch can turn to a bark chew or a bark mush. I have tried to reheat or dry out the bark after a foil finish with no luck. I mean that it is still tastie as ever, but it will be a little on the limp side.



To be honest, I don't have a set, step by step, of doing anything. There are just too many variables. Now, if I were doing one of the same every weekend or more every day for a restraunt, I would be more concerned about establishing a set of step by steps to follow. Otherwise keep trying different stuff and remember what YOU like and try things that you think you might like to change.


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## joe sixpack

I've smoked with and without aluminum pans. The meats (Butt & Whole chickens) came out nice both ways. I've yet to sear or wrap a butt, and with my successes I don't plan on it anytime soon.

Marinating overnight (in a sealed baggie) seems to do the trick for me. Mustard & a rub for pork, Mayo and a rub for chicken. Sausages get tossed in about 3 hours before the butt or chicken are done.


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## ebshumidors

I used a not too sweet local rub. Left it in a plastic bag for 2 days.  Then I ground up some black peppercorns in the coffee grinder and coated the whole thing.  Proceeded to burn the crap out of it on the charcoal grill.  2 hrs in the alum pan fat side up in the smoker.  1 hr fat side down.  3 hrs wrapped up tight in the oven at 250.  Unbelievable au jus!  This was no doubt the best brisket I ever made.  BTW, I used a whole 10lb packer with about 4lb cut off the flat end.  I used that 4lb piece to make a killer pastrami.


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## mickster

2 Questions:

1) How long did it take to sear (guesstimate) to get it to burn?
2) Why did you make pastrami (I love it personally)? Just curious
2 a.) How did you make the pastrami?

Thanks!

Michael


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## ebshumidors

1) How long did it take to sear (guesstimate) to get it to burn?
It took about 15-20 minutes.  I used a chimney of chunk hardwood charcoal.  I only got flames on one side but it was still black on both sides.
2) Why did you make pastrami (I love it personally)? Just curious
I like corned beef and wanted to try it.  No regrets at all.
2 a.) How did you make the pastrami?
I used the recipe in http://www.amazon.com/Charcuterie-Cr...9591235&sr=8-1

Some changes I would make: I would make sure I trim most of the fat off the flat (leave @ 1/4"). Then, I would brine for 4 days instead of three.  I still had a 3/8" gray area in the middle after a three day brine.  Also, I would grind the peppercorns and coriander seed separately due to thier different sizes.  I may also add some juniper berries.  When I rinse the meat after brining it, I would then coat the meat with the spices and then leave it in the fridge uncovered overnight to develop a pecille.


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## big game cook

seared my brisket tonight. i do it ocassionally but not to blacened point. just enough to make a skin on the meat. well see how this one turnes out. i dont like it to black. and foil after it bets to barking.


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## krusher

two words:: SEAR IT


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## richoso1

A picture is worth a thousand words... thanks my friend.


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## ally2mail

I've never seared a brisket but I certainly will try it. I wish I would have thought of it before I put this one on at about 4:30 am.


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## sumosmoke

Just gives ya a reason to smoke another brisket, soon!


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## ally2mail

well, I didn't have the foresight to sear this one but it turned out to be smash the phone good{cause you don't want to be disturbed }


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## majorlee69

Having just placed 17th outta 34 teams on brisket in my first ever comp. last weekend I've really been doing some research. This may be an older thread but I and fasinated and thankfull for the knowledge! Thank you I will try this method this weekend!!


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## jarjarchef

So I stumbled on this thread. Very interesting read.....

So this kind of crazy ......... We had a guy that worked in the last location I was at. We do catering and banquets, a full gamete of styles of service. We had this guy who loved to run his mouth at how bad the other culinary team was and that he would take on anyone with cooking. We had a group that had brisket on the menu. Oh boy he went to town about how he was the best at brisket. So we let him make it. He worked on it for 3 day brining it and then doing the smoke. So I was just having fun with him at how long it was taking and said I could do a better job the day of and no smoker. He was to say the least upset. So I took and trimmed one down, seasoned it with a bit of my secret all purpose seasoning. Threw it on the grill and really gave it a good time on the grill. It was as black as my shoe. Sliced some onions threw them in the bottom of a 6" deep pan and put the black brisket on top. I then added some apple cider vinegar beer, a bit of store bought BBQ sauce and covered with plastic wrap and foil (the plastic wrap does not melt and keeps the foil from turning) and put it in a 350 degree oven for around 5 hrs. 

We then got several people to do a blind taste test, not very hard to do in a hotel. FREE FOOD!!!!!!!

Needless to say the 6 ish hour brisket killed the 3 day brisket.

That was the first time I had ever cooked brisket and most likely will sear when I do more.


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## Carvendive

THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS FORUM. - Every so often a thread stands out. (I, as a newby LEARN SO MUCH from threads like this one.) Briskets seem to be one of the more difficult accomplishments to achieve and this (methodology) seems to answer many of my questions. You can be assured that I will be giving a block party this Summer that is going to include this recipe/method/technique. I'll be sure to post a thread with pictures.
THANK YOU!!!!!


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