# Venison Wieners/Hot Dogs



## smokenharley (Jan 7, 2019)

It was a rainy, cold, and blustery weekend - perfect time to make a batch of venison doggies. I like the AC Legg seasoning but I embellish it with some fresh garlic and a tiny bit of Mace. I decided to go small (5#) on this batch with no cheese or other additional add-ins. My favorite ratio is 70% venison, 20% pork shoulder, and 10% fat. It gives me a very smooth texture and excellent taste.

I grind through a 1/8" plate at least twice. Generally, I separate the meat and the fat in the grinding process. Mixed all the ingredients and put them in the fridge until the next afternoon. 

Next up is homogenization or emulsification. I usually keep a bowl surrounded by ice as the receptacle to keep the mixture cool after the process because it does generate a bit of heat due to the friction in the process. The point of emulsification is to join two dissimilar compounds (fat & protein) so it's important to keep everything as cool as possible. If I am doing a large batch (20#) I use several small bowls within a large bowl with plenty of ice.






The next step obviously is stuffing - pretty boring so I didn't take any pics. After that I loaded my indoor smoker. It was way too cold and windy outside so I used my indoor franken smoker.






In the smoker at 130F for 30 minutes, bumped-up to 140F with smoke for 1.5 hours. Ready for Sous Vide.






Vacuum sealed and ready for Sous Vide.







Sous Vide to 147F for 55 minutes. After a cold water bath I let them go to room temperature and then to the fridge.







I took a few in to work the next day and was inundated with requests from people to make a batch. Given that hot dogs or wieners are probably the most process intensive sausage to make, I respectfully declined but, I did suggest that a good case of stout may change my mind.

I hope my smoking brotherhood enjoyed,
Smokenharley


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## pushok2018 (Jan 7, 2019)

Smokenharley, your wieners/hot dogs looks absolutely awesome! The outside and inside color is just beautiful. What's more, it looks like you were able to emulsify the ground meat to perfection. I am wondering, what kind of device did you use for this task? I usually emulsify meat for hot dogs using Cuisinart 14-cups food processor but never was able to reach that texture. Also, what kind of casing did you use? Any chance you can share your recipe?


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## jcam222 (Jan 7, 2019)

Those look amazing!!


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## chopsaw (Jan 7, 2019)

Looks good .


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## smokenharley (Jan 7, 2019)

pushok2018 said:


> Smokenharley, your wieners/hot dogs looks absolutely awesome! The outside and inside color is just beautiful. What's more, it looks like you were able to emulsify the ground meat to perfection. I am wondering, what kind of device did you use for this task? I usually emulsify meat for hot dogs using Cuisinart 14-cups food processor but never was able to reach that texture. Also, what kind of casing did you use? Any chance you can share your recipe?



I use a Champion Juicer to homogenize my mix. It is marketed as a juicer but will homogenize - nearly the same as emulsifying - you just need cooling. They are quite expensive new but can be found on Craigslist or Ebay for much less. I purchased mine for $60 hardly used.

Casings and I have been a love hate relationship for years. I make a lot of venison snack sticks and I have gone through many different casings from many different resellers. I settled on cellulose for my snack sticks and hot dogs. After the ice bath, the dogs and sticks slide right out of the casing. And there is no chewy stuff to deal with as you are eating the stick. They are smoke permeable and I think they nearly as good as any other casing for smoking. 

Most of my process is posted but I'll detail it with additional ingredients in a day or two.


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## smokenharley (Jan 7, 2019)

Thanks guys, much appreciated


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## pushok2018 (Jan 8, 2019)

Found several Champion Juice's on my local Graigslist with a price range from $60 to $200 and additional cost of $25 for S&H.
Want to get it but afraid (!!!) my wife will kick me out of  house for an additional piece of equipment. 
Seems like all providers sell cellulose casing in large quantities only... I'll be using collagen eatable casing (I used it before) for hot dogs. Waiting on details (recipe) for additional ingredients for your hot dogs... Thanks!


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## archeryrob (Jan 8, 2019)

They look nice. Did you use the 26mm casings? I used them last time and they just seemed small to me once finished. I ordered the 31mm to try this year.


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## slapaho_injun (Jan 8, 2019)

Great looking dogs!

I love it when folks ask me to smoke a turkey they got free from work. They have no idea how much work goes into brining, curing, injecting, trussing & then smoking turkeys. I can only do three birds hanging at a time, so I always say - for family, yes....anyone else, no. Then our daughter started asking this year for her friend, still no.

I always say that my smoker is available to any friend or family member to use. I'll gladly help but you gotta be here to help also. Still just me , the Mrs. & our thirst here when we run the smoker. No takers when they have to help.


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## gnatboy911 (Jan 8, 2019)

Great post!  Thank you!  I have some elk meat in the fridge cut up and ready to grind. I'm going to make some hotdogs, and little smokes so I'm glad I found this. I also intended to use my Sous Vide to finish them to temp.  I probably won't get a full emulsification since I don't have a large food processor or juicer like you do.  I was planning on just doing a double or triple grind with my small place with some freezer time in between, then stuffing into some sheep casings.  Thanks again for the inspiration and info!


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## crazymoon (Jan 8, 2019)

SH, Your dogs look quite professional and I can see why your coworkers want to place orders ! Like


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## smokenharley (Jan 8, 2019)

pushok2018 said:


> Found several Champion Juice's on my local Graigslist with a price range from $60 to $200 and additional cost of $25 for S&H.
> Want to get it but afraid (!!!) my wife will kick me out of  house for an additional piece of equipment.
> Seems like all providers sell cellulose casing in large quantities only... I'll be using collagen eatable casing (I used it before) for hot dogs. Waiting on details (recipe) for additional ingredients for your hot dogs... Thanks!



Here is my recipe
70% ground venison
20% ground pork shoulder
10% pork fat
AC Legg Frankfurter seasoning - .56oz per pound of meat
Pink Salt #1 - 1 teaspoon per 5# meat
1 cup NFDM per 5# of meat
13oz. Ice water per 5# meat (possibly additional if meat is very dry - you will need to judge as you are mixing)
Any additional seasonings you wish: I add a bit of garlic and mace


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## smokenharley (Jan 8, 2019)

pushok2018 said:


> Found several Champion Juice's on my local Graigslist with a price range from $60 to $200 and additional cost of $25 for S&H.
> Want to get it but afraid (!!!) my wife will kick me out of  house for an additional piece of equipment.
> Seems like all providers sell cellulose casing in large quantities only... I'll be using collagen eatable casing (I used it before) for hot dogs. Waiting on details (recipe) for additional ingredients for your hot dogs... Thanks!



I purchase my cellulose casings from The Sausage Maker www.sausagemaker.com. You can purchase them in most any quantity and their prices and shipping are reasonable. Good luck on the Champion. They do work fantastically.


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## smokenharley (Jan 8, 2019)

archeryrob said:


> They look nice. Did you use the 26mm casings? I used them last time and they just seemed small to me once finished. I ordered the 31mm to try this year.



I used a 25mm casing and I'm going to try the 31mm in the near future.


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## pushok2018 (Jan 10, 2019)

smokenharley, Thank you for the recipe! This is going to be my next project - when have little more room in my freezer...


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## boykjo (Jan 14, 2019)

Nice looking hot dogs Smokenharley. Yours makes me want to make a batch.... Great job!

Boykjo


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## indaswamp (Jan 14, 2019)

Not much on hot dogs, but I'd eat that. Awesome job.


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## pushok2018 (Jan 30, 2019)

smpokenharley, one more question for you: how much ground meat this juicer can emulsify at once, without stoppage?


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## smokenharley (Jan 31, 2019)

I do ten pounds at a time and it has never flinched. It's a well made heavy duty juicer/homogenizer. My preference is 10#, refrigerate, and then begin the next 10#. I have noticed a very slight warming of the mixture but nothing like a food processor. In order to mitigate any warming I grind it into a SS bowl surrounded by ice. Generally my batches are 25#. I hope this helps.


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## indaswamp (Jan 31, 2019)

I have access to a bowl chipper....but I would need a bunch of people to go in and make a batch of emulsified sausages to make it worth the while to pull it out and use it. I hear they are a royal PITA to clean....


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## smokenharley (Jan 31, 2019)

idaswamp,
I think the Buffalo Chopper is the same as what you are talking about. A local butcher told me he won't even fire his up unless he is processing a 100# because they are such a PITA to clean up. I have seen them run and they do a fantastic job of emulsifying the meat I think mostly because it cycles through the chopper several times.

For my purposes the Champion juicer with the homogenizer plate is simply perfect for smaller batches of 20-30#. The clean-up is easy because all the parts are snap-on and is easily disassembled for clean-up. And if you are so disposed, just put everything in the dishwasher. Its dishwasher safe. They are very popular in juicing circles so parts are readily available for most models. 

I probably need to clarify the homogenizer plate and function so its clear how they work. As a juicer, a screen is installed under the front spout to allow the juice to drip out and the rind or pulp of the fruit/vegetable to exit out of the front tube. Replacing the slide-in screen with a blank will allow anything coming through to be very finely ground and pushed out through the front tube. 

I have tried many tricks to try and get a good emulsification including freezing my grinder components, multiple grinds through a 1/8" plate along with multiple cleaning and parts freezing cycles. Nothing has worked better for me than this unassuming juicer. I'm sure the original developer never considered that we would be making meat and sausages with a juicer. If he was a vegetarian, he is probably rolling in his grave.

I hope this wasn't too windy,
SM


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## boykjo (Feb 2, 2019)

smokenharley said:


> I do ten pounds at a time and it has never flinched. It's a well made heavy duty juicer/homogenizer. My preference is 10#, refrigerate, and then begin the next 10#. I have noticed a very slight warming of the mixture but nothing like a food processor. In order to mitigate any warming I grind it into a SS bowl surrounded by ice. Generally my batches are 25#. I hope this helps.



Ya got me looking for this juicer.... Let one slip by me for $80.... might bite the bullet and get a new one. $340 price tag

Boykjo


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## streetguy (Feb 3, 2019)

How did you discover that a juicer would emulsify  meat and what is the intended use for the homogenize attachment. Not trying to bust your chops just curious. Looking to get one myself.


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## smokenharley (Feb 3, 2019)

No problem. I knew the juicer had the capability to homogenize fruit in order to make a puree for jellies and jams. At that juncture I thought if it can do that, why not meat. So I took and gamble and purchased one on Craigslist at a very reasonable price. I figured if worked, great, and if it didn't, I would just resell it. I mixed a batch that evening, let it sit overnight and ran it through the Champion the next day. It worked and worked really well. I never used it for juice but I'm sure it would work quite well for it's intended purpose.


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## streetguy (Feb 3, 2019)

I've seen some YouTube ov other people using it for the same purpose. Looks a lot easier to clean than your food processor and you don't have to do it in batches.


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## indaswamp (Feb 3, 2019)

smokenharley said:


> idaswamp,
> I think the Buffalo Chopper is the same as what you are talking about. A local butcher told me he won't even fire his up unless he is processing a 100# because they are such a PITA to clean up.


That's the one. It is a big unit, about 2' in diameter. I'll snap a picture of it next time I'm at the firehouse. I want to get some guys together and make a big batch of emulsified sausages. real deal hot dogs, mortadella, etc...


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## indaswamp (Feb 3, 2019)

I really want to harvest some nutria and make some emulsified meats with it. mix in some pork trim and fat. I want to get crazy with it, like habanero & honey, pineapple and jalapeno, bourbon and toasted pecan......


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## Shooter71 (Mar 25, 2019)

smokenharley, 

have a couple of follow-up questions on your various posts:


I have not used, but have read about the sous vide process.  When you stated, "_Sous Vide to 147F for 55 minutes_", does that mean that you use the sous vide device to bring the water temperature up to 147°F and then hold it there for 55 minutes (and thus assuming the internal meat temperature has also reached the same 147°F)?  I assume if that is the case, you have confirmed that 55 minutes in the water bath is long enough to get the internal meat temperature up to 147°F?
Also, when using sous vide for hot dogs, what is the purpose of putting them in a vacuum sealing bag?  I would think the casing would act as the "bag" in this case.  When I have used a hot water bath to finish my franks, I have not thought about putting them in a bag first so just trying to understand the benefit.
You mentioned you make a lot of snack sticks.  I have made some using the Sausage Maker's snack stick recipe, but it was pretty generic.  Have you found a good recipe that you are willing to share?
Anyone know what the purpose is for the black lines on the collagen casings?
Thanks for sharing your post and recipes.


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## smokenharley (Mar 26, 2019)

Hi Shooter71. Great questions.
1. The process of Sous Vide uses tables of time and temperature to reach a point of pasteurization. That is a point where the harmful bacteria are completely killed off or are at high ratios like 1,000,000:1 where they are no longer harmful. As an example, I may have a pork sausage in a 35mm casing. At 150 degrees F, it would be fully cooked at 1 hour 15 minutes. At 130 degrees F, it is fully cooked at 3.5 hours. The lower the temperature, the longer the time for pasteurization. Conversely, the higher the temp, the shorter the time. The really nice advantage to Sous Vide is that you can take the product to nearly exact and optimal temperature without over cooking and drying the finished product too much. It is definitely another nice cooking tool that complements both smoking and BBQ. I could write pages on this but for now I hope this answers your question. When I get a chance I'll send you a time/temp table.

2. Sous Vide translated is vacuum cooking. In my opinion there are a few good reasons to use vacuum if you have it but it can be done without. Vacuum packaging seals all the wonderful goodness of the meats internally as much as possible. Additionally and maybe most important, it keeps meat juice and other particulates out of the Sous Vide circulator/heater. Most manufacturers of equipment will not honor a warranty if the food is not sealed and your machine is all gunked-up. You can easily use a ziploc bag but, you will need be sure that the top of the bag is not submerged in the water and get out as much air as possible.

3. I have what I consider several great snack stick recipes. I am a big fan of the AC Legg seasonings and I modify them for my own taste and what kind of stick I want. One, and my most popular venison sticks among friends is a more meaty stick with cheese and smoked to temp. The second most popular is a more spongy stick that resembles the texture of a dense hotdog. I'll share those in another post when I have more time.

4, The stripes/lines are there so you know what type of casing you are using and that they are not edible.

I'll do my best to get back to you this evening with a few links and recipes. It's always good to have proven recipes because most of us have made 3 or 4 or more batches until we got what we wanted. And of course, that is half the fun.


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## smokenharley (Mar 26, 2019)

Shooter71, Here is a good intro guide to Sous Vide. 
http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html


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## Shooter71 (Mar 27, 2019)

Smokenharley - thanks for the input.  You mentioned some of your most liked snack sticks you make with cheese.  Have you made any of your skinless wieners with cheese as well?  I would expect that cheese in a skinless dog would not work out well as any cheese at the surface would just melt during the cooking/grilling process and just melt out (even high temp cheese) and leave voids in the hot dogs.  Curious if you or anyone else has experienced anything different that would make skinless cheese hot dogs a possibility or if you really just need to stick to natural or edible casings.

For anyone that uses sous vide - I have been reading about sous vide and one thing I am still trying to grasp on the time / temp tables is the difference between the using sous vide to kill the bad stuff vs cooking to the meat so it is fully cooked.  For example, I would not want to cook sausage sous vide at the required time / temp to kill the bad stuff but still have raw meat inside.  Looking at the tables, there are different options for steaks done rare, medium, etc. so it seams that sous vide can kill bad stuff without fully cooking the meat, but for all the other time / temp tables for poultry, fish, etc. does the time / temp tables always translate to a meat that is fully cooked such that you will not be eating raw sausage?


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## smokenharley (Mar 31, 2019)

Shooter71 said:


> Smokenharley - thanks for the input.  You mentioned some of your most liked snack sticks you make with cheese.  Have you made any of your skinless wieners with cheese as well?  I would expect that cheese in a skinless dog would not work out well as any cheese at the surface would just melt during the cooking/grilling process and just melt out (even high temp cheese) and leave voids in the hot dogs.  Curious if you or anyone else has experienced anything different that would make skinless cheese hot dogs a possibility or if you really just need to stick to natural or edible casings.
> 
> For anyone that uses sous vide - I have been reading about sous vide and one thing I am still trying to grasp on the time / temp tables is the difference between the using sous vide to kill the bad stuff vs cooking to the meat so it is fully cooked.  For example, I would not want to cook sausage sous vide at the required time / temp to kill the bad stuff but still have raw meat inside.  Looking at the tables, there are different options for steaks done rare, medium, etc. so it seams that sous vide can kill bad stuff without fully cooking the meat, but for all the other time / temp tables for poultry, fish, etc. does the time / temp tables always translate to a meat that is fully cooked such that you will not be eating raw sausage?



I have made snack sticks with and without several types of cheese in skinless casings. For the skinless I process them much like a hotdog with a very smooth texture and add the cheese just prior to stuffing. My favorite is with pepper jack.

When cooking sausages Sous Vide I treat them like a slab of meat and follow the guidelines for the thickness. For instance, if I am using a 32mm casing I use the time listed for 35mm thickness. Since they are packed tightly in a vacuum bag they are much like a slab of muscle meat. Using this method I have never had any that were not fully cooked when finished. Some sausages with a natural casing I will finish with a pan sear to crisp the casing. Others like Chorizo, I prefer to make skinless and then do a finish in a pan with butter.

Hope this helps in your Sous Vide quest.


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## disco (Mar 31, 2019)

I would love to try these! Big like!


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## crazymoon (Mar 31, 2019)

I have been checking out Champion juicers  since I read this post,probably buy one in the next few months just to try some vennie dogs!


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## smokenharley (Apr 1, 2019)

Crazymoon, I hope you find one. IMO, for the money and for the ease of clean-up I think they are the best thing going for non-commercial use.


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