# Did a bad thing.... MES 30 overheated, SERIOUSLY. What to do??



## goldwingnut54 (Nov 30, 2017)

I'm still monkeying around with a MES 30 GEN 2.5 mod and I inadvertently got it HOTTTT....like 550 ish hot. It is probably toast (pun intended) but I'm not sure.

It still works but doesn't smell right, and I'm thinking about a major tear-down and start over. I'm just stubborn enough to take it all apart and waste a bunch of time and $$ to fix it. 

Unless there is a good reason to NOT attempt to DE-construct a boat anchor to make a smoker out of it, I'll probably give it go. Or maybe just a major clean up, and then fuggetaboutit.

I don't want to grow a 3rd eyeball or a horn out of my forehead from ingesting some strange resin, and I'm not about to throw it out without a bit more thought on the topic.

And I'm in no hurry. I've got other smokers, and am unlikely to starve to death in the next few weeks.

Any ideas???
Thanks!
Stan


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## Rings Я Us (Nov 30, 2017)

What kind of mods were you going to do?


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## Bearcarver (Nov 30, 2017)

You put some other control on it??
I had one get to around 240° and I could hear the insulation between the walls crinkling until it got back down below 200° again.

Bear


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## foamheart (Nov 30, 2017)

The magic number is (800) 489-1581

This is a toll free direct emergency hotline to Masterbuilt. Be sure you have your S/N and Md. No. off the plate on the back of the unit when you call. They are excellent at trouble shooting and free parts for newly purchased warrantied units.

Give 'en a try I am sure you'll be happy with the results and the timely fashion in which you get it smoking again.


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## Rings Я Us (Nov 30, 2017)




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## goldwingnut54 (Nov 30, 2017)

OH YEAH, I was in a serious rebuild mode. It was waaaaay under performing (not sure why) and I bought it cheap off of Craigslist for my oldest son. There will be no replacement parts free gratis from Masterbuilt. I'd be embarrassed to ask 'em for it. 

I replaced the 800 watt element with a 1200 and LOVED the results with my homebrew Infinite Swithc Controller. (Several great smokes!) But before I could implement my next step, a PID, (slow shipping)  I accidentally left it set to *FULL HONK* for several minutes.

OOPSIE.....

My revered high school band director taught me that _"when you lay an egg, stand back and admire it"_ so this one's on me. I just want to know if anyone can shed any light on my dilemma. I could call that number and see what they say, but I'm gonna get scolded and I deserve it.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 30, 2017)

Yup---I wouldn't tell them!!
I think they have Men in White coats on Speed Dial.

Bear


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## Rings Я Us (Nov 30, 2017)

So I should wait to mod my 1650 watt one until after the PID is ready? 
:p


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## goldwingnut54 (Nov 30, 2017)

Yes!

Wellllll....... Not necessarily. I lost my focus, doing a FAST pre-heat. I knew I had inserted an IRON FIST in a velvet glove, and the potential was there for THE BIG NO NO. But I was careless.  And in a hurry.  Two character flaws that should be etched on most gravestones, probably.


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## dward51 (Nov 30, 2017)

So what is damaged?

Since it's a non-warranty situation and you were going to mod it anyway, there is a lot you can do. The foam insulation can be replaced with rock wool insulation (much higher heat rating). If the controller is toast, you were considering a PID conversion which will replace the stock controller anyway. 

About the only thing right off hand I can think of would be the wiring insulation.  That can be replaced also, especially if you remove the stock controller and go with PID & SSR.  Only other thing might be the snap sensor (thermal over temp sensor).  If it's not the auto reset type, it will need to be be replaced if you exceeded the safety set point (but if you did in theory it should have shut down the element unless you had it bypassed in your mod).

It's all fixable.... and can be improved upon


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## goldwingnut54 (Nov 30, 2017)

dward51 said:


> So what is damaged?
> 
> Since it's a non-warranty situation and you were going to mod it anyway, there is a lot you can do. The foam insulation can be replaced with rock wool insulation (much higher heat rating). If the controller is toast, you were considering a PID conversion which will replace the stock controller anyway.
> 
> ...



NOT A THING is wrong with it. I was worried about exposure to chemicals from the decomposing foam, since it smells so funky. But your post gives me a reason to go forward with my original plans.

I LOVE projects, and I got the handyman gene, but only passed it on to 2 of my Spawn. And one of them is a "SHE"! And no, she's not a Handywoman or a Handyperson. She's a Female Handyman, but I digress.....

My PID arrived the day after. How's that for irony?!?!

Dave, You are _"in the know" _as regards mods to the MES. (I've lurked here a while.) Is there a definitive thread on DIY PID's and etc? I've got time on my side. I can cook anytime I like, on 2 other smokers. It really started out as a gift to my son, but I unloaded a new MES 40S from Academy Sports on his drive last week.


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## jted (Nov 30, 2017)

Goldwing54 Welcome since you have other smokers you know a smoker in its basic form is just a box or tube with a heat source. I would think the fumes  from  the burnt  insulation will dissipate.  You don;t need to worry about the wireing since you will rewire it for the PID. The only thing I wonder about is why the Snap switch did not shut it down. They are only a couple of bucks and easy to replace.  I would replace it just to make sure you have the safety margin. I replaced mine with a 200 c switch. 200 c is near 400f.  The switch is in  a normally open state when it gets hot it just closes and shuts down your smoker. When you rewire for your PID it is just 24 more inches of high heat wire and 2 more high heat connectors and the switch of course.  Jted


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## goldwingnut54 (Nov 30, 2017)

jted said:


> Goldwing54 Welcome since you have other smokers you know a smoker in its basic form is just a box or tube with a heat source. I would think the fumes  from  the burnt  insulation will dissipate.  You don;t need to worry about the wireing since you will rewire it for the PID. The only thing I wonder about is why the Snap switch did not shut it down. They are only a couple of bucks and easy to replace.  I would replace it just to make sure you have the safety margin. I replaced mine with a 200 c switch. 200 c is near 400f.  The switch is in  a normally open state when it gets hot it just closes and shuts down your smoker. When you rewire for your PID it is just 24 more inches of high heat wire and 2 more high heat connectors and the switch of course.  Jted



Thanks for the WELCOMES, jted and Rings!

I defeated the safety switch, and did a simple, external wiring job to just see what was what. Well it worked so GREAT to have another 400 watts, I just went to smoking with it, whilst waiting for my PID kit to arrive. 

The mailbox mod is such a killer idea for MES 30, that it is a game changer for Anti-Electric Guys, such as I used to be. You'll have to shoot me to get me to let go of my Gourmet FrankenBrinkmanns, or my WSM, but I am now really liking the MES. As a platform for some clever hacking, they are affordable and well made enough to hold an equally permanent place in my smoker inventory. From the factory, not so much....but not all that bad either!


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## dward51 (Nov 30, 2017)

I've been a hardcore WSM owner since 2005, but I sure do find myself using the MES more and more after all the mods I did to mine.  There is something to be said for the ease of flipping a switch and setting a PID and knowing the rest is pretty much automatic.....   No overnight pork butts, but chicken, sausage and chops come out great.


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## tallbm (Nov 30, 2017)

You might want to pull the back off and check the insulation around the heating element.  If it is charred to the point where it might catch fire then you may want to replace that insulation with some hi temp stuff you can just shove in there and secure somehow.

Also for DIY PIDS, you will need to search the site.  I recommend you use Google and target your searches at site:smokingmeatforums.com since google search is hard to beat.

Here is some PID and wiring related posts I have that may give some ideas or help you out.  Best of luck! :)


MES Rewire no need to remove back
HeaterMeter Controller with Wifi, etc.
My MES and Auber PID Experience


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## goldwingnut54 (Dec 1, 2017)

Thanks for the replies!

I'm not acutally sure how to get this thing apart. There are no visible screws or rivets on the sides or back (except access plates to the heating element and overheat sensor) but I haven't snooped much so far.

I'm well into my 6th decade on the planet, and I've come to loathe any piece of kit that has been designed with a preference of FORM over FUNCTION. In my perfect world, I'd do away with hidden snaps, clips, fasteners etc... that make for a pretty face, but can't be taken apart by mere mortals. I actually LIKE the look of ewxposed fasteners....but I'm chasing rabbits again.


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## goldwingnut54 (Dec 1, 2017)

Thanks for the replies!

I actually am not quite sure yet how to get this thing apart. Other than access panels, I don't see exterior fasteners along the back or sides...but I need to snoop more. There is a leg kit (with wheels) and a handle at the top that may be the only fasteners. Dunno....

(I'm into my 6th decade on the planet, and I've come to dislike hidden assembly systems, designed with a preference of FORM over FUNCTION. Hidden clips and snaps might make the final product look nicer to wimmens and girly men, but I loathe taking them apart since I then have to put them back together. JUST SHOW ME THE FASTENERS!!!! But I'm chasing rabbits again.;))

Anybody done a full disassembly on one with no rivets or screws along the back/sides?


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## tallbm (Dec 1, 2017)

I've taken one like that apart.

The fasteners are at the bottom with the wheels and other components and keep the backing fastened from the bottom.  The backing is then in place via a lip on the back sheet metal panel and a groove in the frame of the smoker.  When you pull the backing out you WILL crinkle/crimp the sheet metal lip so be prepared to hammer and hammer and hammer to straighten the lip and hammer the backing into the groove of the frame again. 
It is a pain in the butt and I recommend you get sheet metal screws to reinforce it when you replace it.  Read about my experience with that effort here: http://smokingmeatforums.com/index....nd-auber-pid-experience-plug-and-play.258173/
I couldn't get the backing completely removed because of the handle rivets at the top-back of the smoker.  I just folded the backing up and over and it was out of the way for me to do my work.

You will need to flip the MES on it's face to start this work, just be careful not to break any glass.
Also it is helpful to have it on a table so you can sit in a chair and work on it but you may need help lifting it onto a table.


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 1, 2017)

Here is a question from a non mes user.

Why is there this problem with insufficient air for an AMNPS?  Why can't you install an air inlet with valve on the bottom like the UDS?


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## tallbm (Dec 1, 2017)

Rings Я Us said:


> Here is a question from a non mes user.
> 
> Why is there this problem with insufficient air for an AMNPS?  Why can't you install an air inlet with valve on the bottom like the UDS?



Good question, I have no answer.  The only issue I could imagine with that is is that the flame/coals are simply hogging all the oxygen.  Maybe someone will have some good input.


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 1, 2017)

tallbm said:


> Good question, I have no answer.  The only issue I could imagine with that is is that the flame/coals are simply hogging all the oxygen.  Maybe someone will have some good input.



Electric smoker..


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 1, 2017)

Like an air pipe right where the AMNPS sits or just under it.. you could adjust flow.
This is a 40 but could work for the 30s.


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## tallbm (Dec 1, 2017)

Oh I misunderstood lol.  
My best guess is that people simply move to a mailbox mod if the AMNPS doesn't work inside.  

What sold me on the mailbox mod + AMNPS was being able to cold smoke with no heat on in the MES.  

Here in TX I have to really manage not adding heat into the MES for cold smokes.  It's Dec 1 today and it's 67F and sunny right now.  I would never be able to cold smoke and keep from exceeding 65F today unless I do it overnight.  Even then the low is 57F... so you see my issues.

The mailbox mod eliminates or minimizes the extra heat issue.  
I also just plan and wait in Jan to do any cold smoking.  About 10-20 pounds of Salmon Lox is in my very near future :D


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## dward51 (Dec 1, 2017)

As to a DIY PID I would go with an Auber Instruments "all in one box" pre-made unit.  You would basically run a power cord (3 prong, ground and the 2 wires to the heating element) out the back of the smoker with a standard 3 prong plug on the end.  That plugs into the Auber "all in one box" and it handles everything from there.    About $140

This is the one I use with my MES 30 that I modded to make the MES Custom SS. The "input" is the power to the PID from the wall outlet (it's the same cord that most desktop PC's use), and the "output" is where you would plug in the 3 prong cord that you will mod to the heating element.  Then run the sensor into the MES body to read the pit temp and you are up and running.


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 1, 2017)

dward51 said:


> As to a DIY PID I would go with an Auber Instruments "all in one box" pre-made unit.  You would basically run a power cord (3 prong, ground and the 2 wires to the heating element) out the back of the smoker with a standard 3 prong plug on the end.  That plugs into the Auber "all in one box" and it handles everything from there.    About $140
> 
> This is the one I use with my MES 30 that I modded to make the MES Custom SS. The "input" is the power to the PID from the wall outlet (it's the same cord that most desktop PC's use), and the "output" is where you would plug in the 3 prong cord that you will mod to the heating element.  Then run the sensor into the MES body to read the pit temp and you are up and running.


So would that work with my mes bullet that has this analog dial? Just keep it at wide open and the PID would do all the on and off?


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## dward51 (Dec 1, 2017)

Yes it would.  

That Auber "all in one box" can be a multi-tasker and work with pretty much any electric unit.   I bought mine when I made a drop in electric conversion for my WSM (mounted the element in an extra door so I could swap between charcoal and electric).   Now I'm using it with the modded MES Custom SS.

Basically you turn the heat dial on the MES element to wide open, and plug it into the PID box.  The PID takes over and will switch the unit one when needed.  Once it's at temp, it pulses infrequently to hold temp very accurately.


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 1, 2017)

dward51 said:


> Yes it would.
> 
> That Auber "all in one box" can be a multi-tasker and work with pretty much any electric unit.   I bought mine when I made a drop in electric conversion for my WSM (mounted the element in an extra door so I could swap between charcoal and electric).   Now I'm using it with the modded MES Custom SS.
> 
> Basically you turn the heat dial on the MES element to wide open, and plug it into the PID box.  The PID takes over and will switch the unit one when needed.  Once it's at temp, it pulses infrequently to hold temp very accurately.



That would make my new $29.00 smoker like a loaded Mini Cooper . Lol neat..:cool:


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## dr k (Dec 2, 2017)

Rings Я Us said:


> Like an air pipe right where the AMNPS sits or just under it.. you could adjust flow.
> This is a 40 but could work for the 30s.
> View attachment 346203


The center rear bottom drip pan grease hole has enough air coming into the smoker that you can't light or keep a lighter lit at the hole from outside the smoker.  Screw or RTV a 90* elbow fitting into the pan hole pointed towards the AMNPS on the rails may work as the air goes towards the AMNPS and rises.  I've never had enough juice in the bottom of the smoker to use the grease drain so it's an air inlet that I plugged from the outside with a cork to keep all air coming into the smoker through the mailbox mod.
-Kurt


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 2, 2017)

dr k said:


> The center rear bottom drip pan grease hole has enough air coming into the smoker that you can't light or keep a lighter lit at the hole from outside the smoker.  Screw or RTV a 90* elbow fitting into the pan hole pointed towards the AMNPS on the rails may work as the air goes towards the AMNPS and rises.  I've never had enough juice in the bottom of the smoker to use the grease drain so it's an air inlet that I plugged from the outside with a cork to keep all air coming into the smoker through the mailbox mod.
> -Kurt



Well the MES 30 models with no drain hole or rails is kind of what I was referring to. 
The 40s don't have as much problem do they?


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## dr k (Dec 2, 2017)

dward51 said:


> As to a DIY PID I would go with an Auber Instruments "all in one box" pre-made unit.  You would basically run a power cord (3 prong, ground and the 2 wires to the heating element) out the back of the smoker with a standard 3 prong plug on the end.  That plugs into the Auber "all in one box" and it handles everything from there.    About $140
> 
> This is the one I use with my MES 30 that I modded to make the MES Custom SS. The "input" is the power to the PID from the wall outlet (it's the same cord that most desktop PC's use), and the "output" is where you would plug in the 3 prong cord that you will mod to the heating element.  Then run the sensor into the MES body to read the pit temp and you are up and running.


I keep tossing about building a PID but I like the plug and play size for all the components needed.  tallbm's digital Mes bypass with four cuts and two splices in the bottom access to terminate the power cord to the high temp leads going to the heating element seems like a half hour job with keeping the factory ground intact.  Then plug into Auber.
-Kurt


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## uncle eddie (Dec 2, 2017)

foamheart said:


> The magic number is (800) 489-1581
> 
> This is a toll free direct emergency hotline to Masterbuilt. Be sure you have your S/N and Md. No. off the plate on the back of the unit when you call. They are excellent at trouble shooting and free parts for newly purchased warrantied units.
> 
> Give 'en a try I am sure you'll be happy with the results and the timely fashion in which you get it smoking again.



^^^This^^^

I have had great luck with customer service


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## tallbm (Dec 4, 2017)

dr k said:


> I keep tossing about building a PID but I like the plug and play size for all the components needed.  tallbm's digital Mes bypass with four cuts and two splices in the bottom access to terminate the power cord to the high temp leads going to the heating element seems like a half hour job with keeping the factory ground intact.  Then plug into Auber.
> -Kurt



I will be one to always recommend the Auber Plug and Play over building/assembling one.
SIMPLY because of the issues around making a box to contain all the PID components and wiring and such.
You gotta make sure it is waterproof, can ground properly, can have components secured to it, can house all components well, can still have enough airflow to prevent overheating, can ensure electrical components don't touch to short out the box, etc. etc. etc. 
Also the tools needed to cut squares and holes into a metal box or some other type of box is not a trivial aspect to ignore.

The Auber Plug and Play has all of that gracefully covered along with safety components like a fuse (that you can easily get to), on/off switch, etc.

The rewire of the MES is no big issue.  Biggest problem you MAY run into (gen 1's) is that you cannot get to the safety Rollout limit switch unless you take off the back OR you cut a hole out and make a panel to access the switch (I highly recommend this).

Here's a simple guide I put together to rewire an MES without needing to remove the back panel, all so the MES is ready to rock and roll with a PID controller :)
http://smokingmeatforums.com/index....e-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/

Best of luck! :)


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