# Can’t get my brisket tender-help?



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

I have a Rec Tec 590 which I am very happy with, but the one cook I cannot nail is a brisket.  I cook at a steady 225 until 165 degrees internal, then wrap in tin foil and keep at 225 until at 200-205, then let rest for an hour.  The meat probe does not slip in smoothly.  The meat is still too tough.  Any ideas why?   I have tried choice and prime cuts with pretty much the same result.  Any help will be appreciated.


----------



## texomakid (Mar 2, 2020)

Based on info provided to me it sound like it's still undercooked. Those IT sound very good but maybe the thermometers are not accurate? That temp probe should feel like your stabbing it into a warm stick of butter when they're done (especially on the point.) 

I guess a question I would have is it falling apart when you slice it? Is it dry?
I know at 225 it takes me a LONG time to cook a brisket. My best guess is it needs to cook longer but there are others here that will help you diagnose this. You've come to the right place. A lot of amazing smokers hang out here. stay tuned and welcome to SMF.


----------



## bangster (Mar 2, 2020)

As someone that has had not much luck with a GREAT AMAZING brisket but plenty of okay good not bad briskets, I don't know what made my last 2 amazing. It was not as cold overnight while smoking so it is possible it was easier to maintain a steady temp in the smoker. I never get a chance to wrap it in foil or paper to finish because they finish many hours earlier than the should (I wake 6-7 hours after starting them, and they are over 180 at this point and usually closer to 195). I fully expect a full packer cut (I get choice, when on sale) to take 12 hours, but they never do. I have a low end Traeger and it does okay at maintaining temperature (not perfect, but good enough for my smokes) I only once caught it at 165 but it quickly moved on.

Last one I took off earlier than I normally would (195) because primarily used for sliced meat (as opposed to shredded for tacos, nachos, snacking) and it sat wrapped in a cooler and towels for 6+ hours (finished early + traveling 2 hours) and it was perfect, still a great temperature for eating, sliceable but tender. The very end of the small end was overdone, but I left in intact and we used it to shred for nachos and it was perfect.


----------



## SecondHandSmoker (Mar 2, 2020)

I am going to assume that your probes are accurate and you're verifying the chamber temp really is at 225.   
When you let the brisket rest, are you using a towel lined cooler?  
Anyway, it does sound like the briskets are undercooked.


----------



## anstissk (Mar 2, 2020)

I also havent made in my opinion "lights out" briskets, but I have made OK ones and one last night I thought was excellent. The differences for me was this last time I put a little beef broth in the foil with it (I dont know how much of a factor this played as a lot of it leaked back out). I also paid closer attention to the tenderness. I checked it often with a probe, not paying any attention to the temp. Once it felt good to me I let it sit open for 15 or so minutes before wrapping it back up again. This vented the brisket and I believe helps stop the cooking process. I then stuck it in a warm oven (150 ish) to rest. I un-wrapped it around 6:45 and sliced at 7:00. 

My lessons learned from this cook  were to repeat my process next time, but I want to check the IT before I slice it. I feel I lost a lot of juice when I sliced it and I attribute that to the brisket being a little too warm yet when I sliced. I think next time I am going to let it sit in the open longer with no foil.


----------



## sandyut (Mar 2, 2020)

what was the weight and total time?  Was this a full packer or just the flat?  these cook very differently and my experience was a flat is much more challenging than the FP.


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

sandyut said:


> what was the weight and total time?  Was this a full packer or just the flat?  these cook very differently and my experience was a flat is much more challenging than the FP.


Answering some of the questions above...thanks everyone!
- 8.4lb choice flat though had some poin
- temp was definitely correct and steady at 225 (used 3 probes to be sure). 
- took 6.5hrs to hit 165 IT, wrapped and then another 1.5hrs to hit 202IT
- then let it rest for 60mins in closed foil
- it wasn’t dry, but it was rubbery
- the previous cook I did wrap in towel and place in cooler, but it kept cooking and was dry


----------



## zwiller (Mar 2, 2020)

Numbers are numbers, better to go by feel.  Each brisket is different.  One might done at 195F and another 210F.  Also, it will NOT probe like butter but more like jello.  I'd pop it the oven low until tender.


----------



## Memphian (Mar 2, 2020)

I ruined many a brisket until I tripped over what ended up working best for me.  First off, shop for a good brisket - look for good marbling, don’t pay for pounds of fat, and make sure there is a reasonable amount of meat on the skinny end of the flat.  Ask a butcher you trust for help picking one out and learn from what he tells you.  I generally buy a 12-14 lb. full packer.  Trim and season the brisket the night before (or early in the morning in my case), cover it with Saran Wrap, and let it chill on a baking sheet in the fridge for 12+ hours.

I generally start my cook around 10:30 p.m. so the brisket has time to rest before dinner.  Take the brisket out of the fridge several hours before you plan on starting your cook so it gets close to room temp.  Get the smoker up to temp, put a large aluminum pan filled with hot water under the brisket, then put your brisket on the smoker point side up.  I don’t wrap mine in aluminum foil until it comes out of the stall.

Here’s what I’ve learned:
* Not all briskets are created equal...meaning they all act different on the smoker.  Some stall at 155 while others stall at 175 AND the stall can last 2-4 hours.
* I always figured the brisket would be done when the point end of the flat got up to 200(ish).  Not true!  In my frustration, I bought a digital thermometer that handles multiple probes.  I stuck one in the point end, the middle and the skinny end of the flat.  I learned that the point end may stay 10+ degrees warmer than the flat end, meaning the flat end was under cooked (dry) when my point end read 200.  I’ve had briskets where I had to get the point end up to 210 just so the flat end was at 197.  I think it has something to do with the way fat conducts heat.
* Sleep is highly overrated when you’re cooking a brisket.  Like I said earlier, I start smoking the brisket at 10:30 p.m. and I’m up at 4:00 waiting on it to come out of the stall so I can wrap it.  You can always take a nap later in the day...but you’ll never be able to fix a dried out brisket.
* Invest in a digital thermometer that has multiple probes.  You’ll only need to open the cooker twice - once to wrap the brisket and a second time to take it off.
* Leave the brisket on until it pokes like soft butter.  It will...just give it time.

When it’s done, I leave the brisket wrapped in the foil, wrap that in a heavy towel, then let it sit in a cooler until I’m ready to serve.  My last 12.5 lb. brisket took 16 hours to cook, I let it rest for 2 hours and it was absolutely perfect.


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

Memphian said:


> I ruined many a brisket until I tripped over what ended up working best for me.  First off, shop for a good brisket - look for good marbling, don’t pay for pounds of fat, and make sure there is a reasonable amount of meat on the skinny end of the flat.  Ask a butcher you trust for help picking one out and learn from what he tells you.  I generally buy a 12-14 lb. full packer.  Trim and season the brisket the night before (or early in the morning in my case), cover it with Saran Wrap, and let it chill on a baking sheet in the fridge for 12+ hours.
> 
> I generally start my cook around 10:30 p.m. so the brisket has time to rest before dinner.  Take the brisket out of the fridge several hours before you plan on starting your cook so it gets close to room temp.  Get the smoker up to temp, put a large aluminum pan filled with hot water under the brisket, then put your brisket on the smoker point side up.  I don’t wrap mine in aluminum foil until it comes out of the stall.
> 
> ...


Thanks...this is very helpful.  I am curious about what you refer to as the STALL (why does it do this?). Mine happened at 165 degrees and I wrapped it at that point.  Anyway,  the main question I have is if the temp gets to 205 and the probe still has resistance when going in, should I keep it going hoping it will become tender...even if the temp goes higher to maybe 210?  All the books and videos say to remove once it hits 200-205, so why would mine need to go higher to get tender (assuming it will as others in this forum suggest)?


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

zwiller said:


> Numbers are numbers, better to go by feel.  Each brisket is different.  One might done at 195F and another 210F.  Also, it will NOT probe like butter but more like jello.  I'd pop it the oven low until tender.


I am going to wait as long as necessary next time until the probe goes in lime soft butter.  Curious to know how much higher than 205 I need to go.  And don’t understand why this won’t make it dry at high IT.  Expensive learning curve!  Maybe I’ll try putting a water pan in there as well.


----------



## HalfSmoked (Mar 2, 2020)

Agree not sure it was cooked long enough. I do not wrap anything. But a lot of the people on here do.

Warren


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

texomakid said:


> Based on info provided to me it sound like it's still undercooked. Those IT sound very good but maybe the thermometers are not accurate? That temp probe should feel like your stabbing it into a warm stick of butter when they're done (especially on the point.)
> 
> I guess a question I would have is it falling apart when you slice it? Is it dry?
> I know at 225 it takes me a LONG time to cook a brisket. My best guess is it needs to cook longer but there are others here that will help you diagnose this. You've come to the right place. A lot of amazing smokers hang out here. stay tuned and welcome to SMF.


Thanks!  The meat was definitely NOT falling apart when slicing.  Tough and rubbery.  Will cook it longer next time, though worried that will dry it out.


----------



## smokeymose (Mar 2, 2020)

Try cooking at a higher temperature. I can't get temps below 145 or so in my offset and usually it runs at 160 to 170. I've never figured out where that 225 thing came from....
I take it through the stall (usually around 180) and then wrap, you should have plenty of "bark" by then, leaving it in the wrap (I use paper but foil works) until it hits your target temp (203 to 204).
Just let it rest on the counter until it's ready to slice. I only cooler towel wrap pork butt for pulling.
This is just my method and there are many others.
Just keep trying. You'll find your groove :-)


----------



## Mastercaster (Mar 2, 2020)

I’ve invested a small fortune on briskets and have yet to cook a perfect one. i always use choice or prime full packers and the flat usually ends up dry. Figuring I had been overcooking them (I use the probe method), last week I smoked one, pulled it a little earlier than I usually do and, of course, I had undercooked it. its frustrating but I’ll keep striving to get it right one of these days.


----------



## Memphian (Mar 2, 2020)

OPSteel said:


> Thanks...this is very helpful.  I am curious about what you refer to as the STALL (why does it do this?). Mine happened at 165 degrees and I wrapped it at that point.  Anyway,  the main question I have is if the temp gets to 205 and the probe still has resistance when going in, should I keep it going hoping it will become tender...even if the temp goes higher to maybe 210?  All the books and videos say to remove once it hits 200-205, so why would mine need to go higher to get tender (assuming it will as others in this forum suggest)?


This article  is about the best explanation of why a brisket stalls I’ve read:  https://bbqonmain.com/brisket-stall/.

Have you checked your thermometer for accuracy?  Try the boiling water test - your thermometer should read 212 when the water boils.  I’ve never cooked a brisket to 200 degrees that, at least where I was measuring the temp, didn’t feel like butter when I stuck the thermometer in.


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks...will test.


----------



## zwiller (Mar 2, 2020)

OPSteel said:


> I am going to wait as long as necessary next time until the probe goes in lime soft butter.  Curious to know how much higher than 205 I need to go.  And don’t understand why this won’t make it dry at high IT.  Expensive learning curve!  Maybe I’ll try putting a water pan in there as well.


Get rid of the idea that higher IT means "dry meat".  Huge fallacy.  I was there too but it is actually the opposite.  You need time and temp to break collagen down.  Forget  the water pan too.  Heat sink or thermal mass at best.  Moisture will not magically evaporate underneath and add to the meat.


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks, sounds like you know what you’re talking about.  My next cook will be this weekend.


----------



## jcam222 (Mar 2, 2020)

Lots of good feedback here. A couple other thoughts I had. 1) You can help make up for lesser marbling / meat quality by injecting.  A good beef broth will help but better yet a commercial mix with phosphates. I love Butcher BBQ Prime Brisket injection. 2) Maybe try cooking at a higher temp for a shorter period of time. I think Mixon cooks his at 300F. Anymore I do many of my cooks whether beef or pork at 275 or more.


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks...will try 275 next time.  I’ll also try injecting.  Appreciate your time!


----------



## fivetricks (Mar 2, 2020)

Yes, higher temps ftw. Keep in mind that injecting will increase your cook times a bit.

To answer some of your earlier inquiries....

Do a little google-ing about how collagen converts to gelatin in the 190-195 degree range. This will explain much of your roughness from the brisket being under cooked.


----------



## indaswamp (Mar 2, 2020)

Good tips so far...
I cook my briskets @ 265*. I don't wrap (while in the smokehouse) or use a water pan.  I do wrap and hold above 180* for minimum of 2 hours, or until we are ready to serve. Like mentioned, it takes time above 180* to break down that collagen into ooey, gooey, melt-in-your-mouth  gelatin. 

And I cook brisket with oak. Usually red or white oak.


----------



## fivetricks (Mar 3, 2020)

Beef + Oak = yum.


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 3, 2020)

Thanks.  I’ll try straight up oak...never have before


----------



## HalfSmoked (Mar 3, 2020)

As you are seeing there are a lot of different opinions you will have to try and find what works for you I never wrap anything I do use a water pan as said that's my personal preference not that its right or wrong but it works for me.

Warren


----------



## indaswamp (Mar 3, 2020)

With regards to a water pan...
If you live in an area that consistently has a low Relative Humidity, you might benefit from using a water pan. I live in the very humid state of Louisiana, plenty enough water already in the air.


----------



## HalfSmoked (Mar 3, 2020)

Thanks for the like SecondhandSmoker it is greatly appreciated.

Warren


----------



## SecondHandSmoker (Mar 3, 2020)

HalfSmoked said:


> Thanks for the like SecondhandSmoker it is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Warren



You're welcome Warren.
I am in the never wrap camp too.


----------



## smokeymose (Mar 3, 2020)

Oops I just noticed in my post I said my smoker runs at 160 to 170! That should be 260 to 270!
I'm sure you all figured that out.....


----------



## zwiller (Mar 3, 2020)

fivetricks said:


> Beef + Oak = yum.


Anything + Oak = yum


----------



## HalfSmoked (Mar 3, 2020)

Thanks for the like jcam it is greatly appreciated.

Warren


----------



## texomakid (Mar 3, 2020)

zwiller said:


> Also, it will NOT probe like butter but more like jello.



My brisket points have no probe resistance when their done.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Mar 3, 2020)

With a pellet grill, use the upper shelf to cook brisket and butts. Don’t cook directly on the lower grate. You can start your grill off at around 180 for a couple hours to get more smoke if needed. The cook temp through the majority of the cook should be at least 250 you can run up to 275-280. I found it very difficult to get a decent brisket around 225 on a pellet cooker.
Most of the time now on my Yoder 640, I cook brisket at 250 for about 5 hours, then regardless of stall, I transfer the meat to a foil pan and cover with foil then cook to probe tender that’s about 3-5 hours more for a 15 plus pound packer. The bark is not the best this way, but the meat is mouth watering, moist and tender. The only caution about this method is you can turn the brisket into jello if cooked too long in the pan. Also you can finish the cook in the oven if you have other meat to grill or just want to save on pellets.


----------



## Braz (Mar 3, 2020)

smokeymose said:


> Try cooking at a higher temperature. I can't get temps below 145 or so in my offset and usually it runs at 160 to 170. I've never figured out where that 225 thing came from....


Do you really mean 145, 160 and 170? Or should that be 245, 260, and 270?


----------



## smokeymose (Mar 3, 2020)

Braz said:


> Do you really mean 145, 160 and 170? Or should that be 245, 260, and 270?


Yeah that was an "Oops, dammit" . I mentioned that a few posts ago. My offset likes to run "around" 270...
Sorry. Senior typo...


----------



## hb99 (Mar 9, 2020)

I foil beef and pork just under 150F.  In my experience, it gets past the stall faster.   I pull the meat off at 207F.  Then  wrap them in several layers of old towels to rest.  I've tried 1 hour...no good,  then 2 better but no, but 3 hours has always worked so far.  That's my standard now.


----------



## Crazy88 (Mar 9, 2020)

OPSteel said:


> Thanks...this is very helpful.  I am curious about what you refer to as the STALL (why does it do this?). Mine happened at 165 degrees and I wrapped it at that point.  Anyway,  the main question I have is if the temp gets to 205 and the probe still has resistance when going in, should I keep it going hoping it will become tender...even if the temp goes higher to maybe 210?  All the books and videos say to remove once it hits 200-205, so why would mine need to go higher to get tender (assuming it will as others in this forum suggest)?



I almost go exclusively off of probe tenderness.  Temperature is a good "general" guide but by no means can it tell you if your meat is tender or not.  I have had a 14lb brisket take 18 hrs when I was smoking it at 225.  Sometimes they can be stubborn. I have heard many different theories about what causes the dreaded "stall". The one that made the most sense to me was evaporative cooling. As the meat cooks the  juice comes out and evaporates cooling the meat. Once the heat overcomes the evaporative effect, the meat pulls out of the stall .  Good luck on your next brisket...


----------



## Crazy88 (Mar 9, 2020)

Crazy88 said:


> I almost go exclusively off of probe tenderness.  Temperature is a good "general" guide but by no means can it tell you if your meat is tender or not.  I have had a 14lb brisket take 18 hrs when I was smoking it at 225.  Sometimes they can be stubborn. I have heard many different theories about what causes the dreaded "stall". The one that made the most sense to me was evaporative cooling. As the meat cooks the  juice comes out and evaporates cooling the meat. Once the heat overcomes the evaporative effect, the meat pulls out of the stall .  Good luck on your next brisket...


I forget to mention that I normally wrap my brisket after I have developed a really nice bark.  Once I get it to probe tender, I allow it to rest for at least an hr.


----------



## noboundaries (Mar 9, 2020)

I just skimmed the thread. Since you are wrapping, there's no need to stick to 225F. Bump the chamber temp to 250-275, or higher. There's nothing magical about 225F. 

Go by probe tenderness not IT. IT is a guide, not a destination. The point will give a false probe tender due to all the fat WAAAAY before the flat, so probe the flat. 

Your next brisket will be AWESOME!


----------



## OPSteel (Mar 10, 2020)

noboundaries said:


> I just skimmed the thread. Since you are wrapping, there's no need to stick to 225F. Bump the chamber temp to 250-275, or higher. There's nothing magical about 225F.
> 
> Go by probe tenderness not IT. IT is a guide, not a destination. The point will give a false probe tender due to all the fat WAAAAY before the flat, so probe the flat.
> 
> Your next brisket will be AWESOME!


Thanks for the help.  We shall see!  Also wondering if you use choice or prime cut?


----------

