# cold smoked belly smells like ashtray



## solman (Mar 21, 2019)

some background info... i did a cold smoke for the very first time yesterday on a pork belly i'm turning into bacon. it had cured for 14 days, rested overnight, then cold smoked for about 6.5 hours for the first time yesterday using CookinPellets Perfect Mix Smoking Pellets that i had ground up into coarse dust.

here's a pic of my set up. i'm using the bottom and top of my old vertical smoker to create a smoking chamber where i keep the smoking tube, then a 6" vent pipe to connect to the bottom half of my 40" propane smoker. the smoker temperature was never more than 8F higher than ambient temperature. highest smoker temp was 63F, i think.








at the end of the 6.5 hours cold smoke, i took the bellies out and all i could smell was ashtray. i put it in the fridge overnight, and this morning the odor is still there but not as strong. my plan is to let it rest 2-3 days in the fridge, then hot smoke it to 140F internal.

so, what caused the ashtray smell?

the only vent on the smoker is on the upper back and was wide open, and during the cold smoke i could clearly see smoke coming out the back so i feel like there was enough air flow. is it lack of proper air flow? or my choice of pellets?


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## indaswamp (Mar 21, 2019)

solman said:


> so, what caused the ashtray smell?


If you did not pre-warm the smoker and the meat, this is likely the problem. Starting a cold smoke session with Cold meat and moisture will condense on the meat. Creosote will condense on the water on the meat and get on the meat. 
Put the slabs to hang in the house at room temperature with a fan on them for 2~3 hours prior to cold smoking, and pre-warm the smoke house to about 20 degrees above ambient temp. to prevent creosote condensation in the smoke chamber and on the meat.


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## indaswamp (Mar 21, 2019)

I just finished he first 9 hour cold smoke session on some Maple BBB tonight....did a fry test to check the smokiness and no creosote taste at all.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/maple-and-cajun-bbb-inda-smokehouse.285008/

Pre warming the meat to above the cold smoke temp. is critical when cold smoking to avoid creosote condensation. You can get away without doing it when warm or hot smoking, but I don't recommend it.


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## solman (Mar 21, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> If you did not pre-warm the smoker and the meat, this is likely the problem. Starting a cold smoke session with Cold meat and moisture will condense on the meat. Creosote will condense on the water on the meat and get on the meat.
> Put the slabs to hang in the house at room temperature with a fan on them for 2~3 hours prior to cold smoking, and pre-warm the smoke house to about 20 degrees above ambient temp. to prevent creosote condensation in the smoke chamber and on the meat.



i actually did those things, but not entirely in that order. prior to cold smoking, i put the slabs into the smoker for about 3 hours outside so that they'd get up to ambient temperature. initially, i put the smoking tube into the external smoker for the first hour, but then put the tube into the primary smoker box for about another hour so that the ambient temperature in the primary box would get higher to help air flow, then i moved the tube back to the external smoker to finish the smoke.

i guess my mistake was maintaining too low of a temperature differential (only 8F or so) and that prevented good air flow? i can either keep the smoking tube in the primary smoker for the next time, or put a fan on the upper back vent.


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## solman (Mar 21, 2019)

i'm also wondering if i can salvage the bellies. the ashtray aroma seemed to have mellowed overnight. maybe it'll be gone in a few more days resting in the fridge? they're currently wrapped up.


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## indaswamp (Mar 21, 2019)

If you put the slabs in the smokehouse, they were likely still too cold when you started applying smoke. When I smoked, ambient temp. was in the low to mid 50's. I put the slabs in the house near a passive heat source (80~85*) with a fan on low and gently warmed them from the 37* fridge temp. they were at. The slabs were around 72* on the surface when I hung them in the smokehouse....no water condensation because the surface of the slabs were warmer than the smoke chamber air temp. 
Get the meat surface temp. above the temp. you will be cold smoking at.
As the slabs warm, condensate will form and you do not want smoke applied during this time at all....


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## daveomak (Mar 21, 2019)

Run the slabs under hot kitchen tap water...  Scrub the outside to rinse off any creosote...  I've done that...  Seems to work OK...
Open the vents on your "MB MOD" wide open for good air flow..  turn the heat on in your smoker to heat it up and the meat to 70-80F...  turn the heat off...    That should stop condensate....  I leave my bellies on the kitchen counter for a few hours to warm....   I can control the heat in my smoker to 20 deg. above ambient which helps....


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## solman (Mar 21, 2019)

i ran them under cold tap water and that seemed to help a little. then did a second rinse under hot water and that helped even more. i'm letting them dry on the counter now and may do another cold smoke later today. thanks for the help, everyone.


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## Bearcarver (Mar 21, 2019)

Sounds like purely a lack of Pellicle to me.
Moisture on the surface catches smoke on a cold and damp Belly & turns it into that Ash tray smell.
That's another good thing about using a little heat on your Bacon when smoking.
Not Hot-Smoke----Just warm Between 100° and 130°. It takes the cold damp surface away, so that never happens.

Bear


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## daveomak (Mar 21, 2019)

There are ways to overcome the creosote...   

... totally cold smoked bacon <70F.....






....totally hot smoked ham......


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## indaswamp (Mar 21, 2019)

How long was that Bacon cold smoked Dave? And did you use your special wood dust mix of Alder, Apple, and Mesquite?


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## zwiller (Mar 21, 2019)

I am with 

 Bearcarver
 no pellicle.  I will have to check my notes but IIRC I gave my BBB 2 or 3 days of drying after patting dry and rinsing the cure off.


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## solman (Mar 21, 2019)

Pellicle is the tacky feeling layer, right? If so I definitely had it.


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## Bearcarver (Mar 21, 2019)

solman said:


> Pellicle is the tacky feeling layer, right? If so I definitely had it.



Dry, but tacky. No moisture at all.

You can get it sometimes in a fridge, but in the smoker for an hour or 2 without smoke works Great.
That's another reason for warm smoking---You use the same Temp as you use to get pellicle:
*Bacon (Extra Smoky)*

Setting it in front of a fan for awhile works too.

Bear


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## solman (Mar 21, 2019)

day 2 on the cold smoke. i put a fan on the slabs and made sure they were completely dry and warmed to room temperature before putting them into the smoker. also put the smoking tube inside the primary smoker and cracked open the main compartment door to ensure full air flow. smoker temp is about 10F higher than ambient temp.


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## daveomak (Mar 21, 2019)

Here's my bacon thread.....  All the details...

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/cold-smoked-bacon.281110/

...


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## indaswamp (Mar 21, 2019)

Thanks Dave for the link. I have read that thread, thought you might have done another batch of bacon and made another thread about it...


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## daveomak (Mar 22, 2019)

I've 4 bellies in the refer now...   A trip to Costco was just in time..


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## solman (Mar 22, 2019)

Day 2 of cold smoking was a success thanks to the feedback here. I rested it overnight in my cold storage room (55F, 40%) and unlike the 1st day it doesn't smell like an ashtray anymore. will do day 3 today.

I had planned to hot smoke it after the 1st cold smoke but changed my mind. Will do 24 hour cold smoke then try to rest it for 3+ days to dry age it a bit before slicing, bagging, and freezing.


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## indaswamp (Mar 22, 2019)

<Thumbs up!>


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## Bearcarver (Mar 22, 2019)

solman said:


> Day 2 of cold smoking was a success thanks to the feedback here. I rested it overnight in my cold storage room (55F, 40%) and unlike the 1st day it doesn't smell like an ashtray anymore. will do day 3 today.
> 
> I had planned to hot smoke it after the 1st cold smoke but changed my mind. Will do 24 hour cold smoke then try to rest it for 3+ days to dry age it a bit before slicing, bagging, and freezing.




Sounds good, but you might want to put it in the freezer for 3 or 4 hours just before slicing. It will slice easier with a slicer.

Bear


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## dernektambura (Mar 22, 2019)

solman said:


> some background info... i did a cold smoke for the very first time yesterday on a pork belly i'm turning into bacon. it had cured for 14 days, rested overnight, then cold smoked for about 6.5 hours for the first time yesterday using CookinPellets Perfect Mix Smoking Pellets that i had ground up into coarse dust.
> 
> here's a pic of my set up. i'm using the bottom and top of my old vertical smoker to create a smoking chamber where i keep the smoking tube, then a 6" vent pipe to connect to the bottom half of my 40" propane smoker. the smoker temperature was never more than 8F higher than ambient temperature. highest smoker temp was 63F, i think.
> 
> ...


I've studied a bit your smoke setup and seems to be kinda off...I'll try to explain my understanding why bacon smelled as ashtray...
you used to big "smoke generator" and over-sized pipe that connects to your smoker....your smoke generator pumped to much smoke for your smoker size to have proper smoke flow trough smoker and out, resulting in belly "choked" by smoke...when cold smoking, smoke should "nibble" on meat surface and with good airflow exit smoker fast....essentially, cold smoking is waste of smoke mixed with good air flow...that's why cold smoking it takes long time...


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## solman (Mar 22, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I've studied a bit your smoke setup and seems to be kinda off...I'll try to explain my understanding why bacon smelled as ashtray...
> you used to big "smoke generator" and over-sized pipe that connects to your smoker....your smoke generator pumped to much smoke for your smoker size to have proper smoke flow trough smoker and out, resulting in belly "choked" by smoke...when cold smoking, smoke should "nibble" on meat surface and with good airflow exit smoker fast....essentially, cold smoking is waste of smoke mixed with good air flow...that's why cold smoking it takes long time...



thanks for the feedback. i think my set up is workable, but i agree it wasn't set up properly. an 8F temp differential between smoker temp and ambient temp wasn't enough to get the air flowing properly. right now, i have the smoking tube inside the primary smoker and there's a 30F temp differential helping the air move.

i would use my set up again if the ambient temp was closer to 80F and i wanted to do some cold smoking. to make it work properly, i would put a fan on the upper back vent to force the air flow.


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## dernektambura (Mar 22, 2019)

solman said:


> thanks for the feedback. i think my set up is workable, but i agree it wasn't set up properly. an 8F temp differential between smoker temp and ambient temp wasn't enough to get the air flowing properly. right now, i have the smoking tube inside the primary smoker and there's a 30F temp differential helping the air move.
> 
> i would use my set up again if the ambient temp was closer to 80F and i wanted to do some cold smoking. to make it work properly, i would put a fan on the upper back vent to force the air flow.


Your setup is definitely workable just try to generate less smoke in your smoke generator and increase fresh air flow trough your 40" smoker...with good air flow, meat will also additionally dry as it's smoking....Good, proper air flow is reason why I built 7 foot high smoker instead of buying store smoker....


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## solman (Mar 22, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> Sounds good, but you might want to put it in the freezer for 3 or 4 hours just before slicing. It will slice easier with a slicer.
> 
> Bear



i had planned for an hour or so to firm it up, but it sounds like that won't be long enough. i'll shoot for 3-4 hours. thanks!


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## indaswamp (Mar 22, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I've studied a bit your smoke setup and seems to be kinda off...I'll try to explain my understanding why bacon smelled as ashtray...
> you used to big "smoke generator" and over-sized pipe that connects to your smoker....your smoke generator pumped to much smoke for your smoker size to have proper smoke flow trough smoker and out, resulting in belly "choked" by smoke...when cold smoking, smoke should "nibble" on meat surface and with good airflow exit smoker fast....essentially, cold smoking is waste of smoke mixed with good air flow...that's why cold smoking it takes long time...


Good input dernek...

When you hot smoke, there is a large pressure difference between the top and bottom vents because the hot flew gases leaving the smoker create that pressure difference. This feeds the draft. With cold smoking, the pressure difference is kept to a minimum because there is very little difference between the temperature of the stack and the intake vent. There is very little expansion of the air from it warming up. When cold smoking, the bottom vent needs to be almost as large as the top vent to compensate to this lack of gas expansion inside the smokehouse. The retention time of smoke when cold smoking is longer than when hot smoking because of this....the gases are not rising as fast in the smoker or through the stack...
Feed as much air-with no restrictions-as you can if using a natural draft and not forcing air with a fan.


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## solman (Mar 22, 2019)

my smoker temp hit 86F, so i moved the tube into the external smoker box and now the temp is 62F or 10 over ambient, and still dropping. i opened the back vent all the way, and cracked open the smoker's main door. i figure this will work in place of a fan.


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## indaswamp (Mar 22, 2019)

solman said:


> my smoker temp hit 86F, so i moved the tube into the external smoker box and now the temp is 62F or 10 over ambient, and still dropping. i opened the back vent all the way, and cracked open the smoker's main door. i figure this will work in place of a fan.


Is it possible for you to cold smoke at night? It's better to cold smoke at night for 2 reasons...#1, it is cooler, so easier to keep the temps. low; and #2, the humidity is usually higher @night...and high humidity is good for cold smoking....75~85%...to keep the meat from case hardening, or the outer layer of meat becoming so dry as to not allow smoke to penetrate deep in the meat.


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## indaswamp (Mar 22, 2019)

I'm in the hot south so other than a handful of day in winter, I have to cold smoke @ night.....


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## solman (Mar 22, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> Is it possible for you to cold smoke at night?



i thought about it, but i really don't like the idea of having a "fire" unattended in the middle of the night. i have a postage stamp size backyard, so my wood deck is the only place i can have my smoker going. plus i work from home, so i can keep an eye on it all day.


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## indaswamp (Mar 22, 2019)

Gotcha... 

For me, when not running propane, there is no way fire could escape once I close up the doors. I sleep like a baby....well, sometimes I wake up and just HAVE to go check the bacon! I shine a flashlight through the exhaust vent just to get a look at the color....and of course smell the smoke....
Then I wander back into the house and crawl back in bed.....never even worry about checking the fire a long as I see TBS coming out the vents.


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## Bearcarver (Mar 22, 2019)

solman said:


> i thought about it, but i really don't like the idea of having a "fire" unattended in the middle of the night. i have a postage stamp size backyard, so my wood deck is the only place i can have my smoker going. plus i work from home, so i can keep an eye on it all day.




Very Wise Decision!
A couple pounds of Bacon aren't worth losing a house or lives over.

Bear


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## Tex1911 (Mar 30, 2019)

Here in the south, we dont get any kind of windy conditions in the summer unless its raining. I had these computer fans that I purchased for another reason but ended up using them sometimes when I cold smoke. They are not strong at all but are really handy. They have a "pigtail" on them so you can hook several up in a chain so to speak. 

When I first start, I place one on top of the MES vent to suck the smoke into the smoker, kinda like a primer. It really helps to get it flowing good. I usually dont have to use it after that but on occasion, I will place one by the "mailbox mod" vent to force air into the MES. Hope that makes sense. Here is one of the fans. Notice the pigtail where I can hook another one up to it if wanted.


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## indaswamp (Mar 30, 2019)

Tex1911 said:


> I place one on top of the MES vent to suck the smoke into the smoker, kinda like a primer.


Why would you put a fan on top of your smoker to suck smoke into the smoke chamber? I don't see the reason for this, did you mean, "place one on top of the MES vent to suck the smoke *out* the smoker"?


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## Bearcarver (Mar 31, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> Why would you put a fan on top of your smoker to suck smoke into the smoke chamber? I don't see the reason for this, did you mean, "place one on top of the MES vent to suck the smoke *out* the smoker"?




I believe Tex means he puts a fan on top of the smoker to suck smoke from his Mailbox into his smoker, in the beginning, like a Primer.
Makes sense to me.

Bear


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## solman (Mar 31, 2019)

I noticed on my last cold smoke that even with a temperature differential of only 2-4F between ambient and smoker temp, I could maintain good airflow as long as the smoker box was primed as Tex described.


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## indaswamp (Mar 31, 2019)

Bearcarver said:


> I believe Tex means he puts a fan on top of the smoker to suck smoke from his Mailbox into his smoker, in the beginning, like a Primer.
> Makes sense to me.
> 
> Bear


Ah...thanks for explaining that Bear...makes sense now......


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## Tex1911 (Mar 31, 2019)

Yep, what Bear said. I guess my fingers are a little slower than the brain? LOL.


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## jcam222 (Apr 8, 2019)

I found in mine (hot smoke) they smell far less like “ash tray” if I allow the meat to form a pellicle  for at least a day. I’ll not be short cutting that step anymore.


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## indaswamp (Apr 8, 2019)

jcam222 said:


> I found in mine (hot smoke) they smell far less like “ash tray” if I allow the meat to form a pellicle  for at least a day. I’ll not be short cutting that step anymore.


3~4 days is better IMO....


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## daveomak (Apr 8, 2019)

Yep ... A hunk of meat that is not dry on the surface, smoke and water make acid rain...  acrid stuff...  smells bad...  
Getting a good pellicle and having the meat above ambient temperature, insure there will be no condensate form on the meat....


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## hawgrider (Apr 9, 2019)

Stale smoke= smoke is moving to slow. 

More vents in at the top and in extremely cold weather add some heat with a few briquettes or a small propane burner on super low. This method will get rid of a moisture problem as well.


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## solman (Apr 9, 2019)

hawgrider said:


> Stale smoke= smoke is moving to slow.
> 
> More vents in at the top and in extremely cold weather add some heat with a few briquettes or a small propane burner on super low. This method will get rid of a moisture problem as well.



my plan is to use a 100w incandescent light bulb to generate some heat in the smoker box the next time i do this. something like this:


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## indaswamp (Apr 9, 2019)

I would be careful with the light...light will cause fat to go rancid which is why it is not recommended for a curing/drying chamber.....


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