# I surrender....all but given up on the UDS....



## inkjunkie (Apr 11, 2015)

I screwed up on the burnout out of the first barrel. Wood I used was seeping some sort of oily substance during the burn. Did not do the best job on removing what was left of the liner. Food had an oily taste to it. 
Burnt a second barrel. 6 pallets and a whole bunch of Cherry and Maple stump pieces. Spent the better part of 5 hours with an angle grinder and drill cleaning up the drum. Was spotless. Wiped it down with cooking oil. 250* for 5 hours. After it cooled I gave it a second coat of cooking oil. Lit it and let it run with all 4 intakes open, was in the 550* zone for 2 hours. Closed 3 of the intakes and let it burn til it was out of fuel. 
Filled the basket up with the charcoal we have been using for several months now. Forgot to mention we cooked some chicken pieces the other day. Anyhow, the Boss made some burger patties while I got it hot. Cooked them to 155* at which point I put some cheese on the burgers. 
The burgers didn't have that funky oily taste to them this time....but we're also a far cry from what they  taste like off of the BGE.  
Half tempted to try some ribs or a Tri Tip on it before giving up entirely. Very disappointed.


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## b-one (Apr 11, 2015)

Sorry to hear that! But that's why I don't build stuff personally. I also take my vehicles to the garage.:biggrin:p


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## pc farmer (Apr 11, 2015)

Maybe your not a uds guy.  I love mine.    What dont you like about the taste?


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## fwismoker (Apr 11, 2015)

c farmer said:


> Maybe your not a uds guy. I love mine. What dont you like about the taste?


I think he had trouble on the burn out.

OP...when you prep a drum you can easily get down to bare metal, I hope you did that.   There's thousands of UDS's out there with no issues so I wouldn't give up.   

Why don't you try getting the insides  wire brushed out and wiped down good with odorless mineral spirits, then season and start over. Let's see some pics


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 11, 2015)

c farmer said:


> Maybe your not a uds guy.  I love mine.    What dont you like about the taste?



That may be! 

Are you using any wood when you use the drum? Do you use wood when you use the BGE? When you use the UDS are you letting the drippings hit the coals? 

Like Adam said what's not right with the flavor? Need a bit more info. 
The BGE is more like grilling than smoking. However the UDS can be set up to be like a grill too. I've cooked on both and have never really had much of a difference out of the final product when using similar techniques.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 11, 2015)

FWIsmoker said:


> I think he had trouble on the burn out.
> 
> 
> OP...when you prep a drum you can easily get down to bare metal, I hope you did that.   There's thousands of UDS's out there with no issues so I wouldn't give up.
> ...



Keith re-read his first post. He said it was spotless inside after 5 hours of grinding after the burn out.


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## fwismoker (Apr 11, 2015)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Keith re-read his first post. He said it was spotless inside after 5 hours of grinding after the burn out.


Oh my bad.   

I'm sure he'll figure it out because UDS style cooking is a beautiful thing.


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## inkjunkie (Apr 11, 2015)

c farmer said:


> Maybe your not a uds guy.  I love mine.    What dont you like about the taste?


Burgers are just sort of flat. They were made from home ground chuck. Ernie mixed in a Ranch seasoning, a lot of it just like she always does. Also a bit of Panco bread crumbs. Same exact way she makes sense them for the Egg.




FWIsmoker said:


> I think he had trouble on the burn out.
> 
> 
> OP...when you prep a drum you can easily get down to bare metal, I hope you did that.   There's thousands of UDS's out there with no issues so I wouldn't give up.
> ...


I started with a fresh barrel. Several pallets and some Cherry and Maple trunk parts. After it cooled off I spent several hours with the angle grinder. Once I got it done to bare metal I wiped it clean with odorless mineral spirits and verified it was clean. Wiped it down with cooking oil, fired it up and let it run. Cooled off and hot it with some cooking oil and let it run thru a full basket of chunk charcoal varying the temperature somewhat. Not the best pictures but..












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dirtsailor2003 said:


> That may be!
> 
> Are you using any wood when you use the drum? Do you use wood when you use the BGE? When you use the UDS are you letting the drippings hit the coals?
> 
> ...


Same Mesquite chunk charcoal, no other wood is added. When I make burgers on the Egg I don't use the place setter, hate BBQing/grilling with indirect heat so I don't think the drippings hitting the charcoal is the culprit. Really confused by this. Not going to paint the drum unless we can figure this out. Tossing around the idea of smoking some ribs on it. May be next weekend before we can. 
I do appreciate any and all suggestions/thoughts.


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## fwismoker (Apr 11, 2015)

Unless I'm missing something on the build you need way more exhaust.   Why isn't it in the lid?   I'd have the equivalent of atleast eight 3/4" or do you have four 1" around the perimeter toward the top of the drum?

BTW how much intake are you running and what temps are you getting.  The UDS needs more air to get a good burn so the fire get's hot enough for a clean burn vs the smolder....don't want the low temp smolder for sure, that'll taste off if that's the case.


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## inkjunkie (Apr 11, 2015)

FWIsmoker said:


> Unless I'm missing something on the build you need way more exhaust.   Why isn't it in the lid?   I'd have the equivalent of atleast eight 3/4" or do you have four 1" around the perimeter toward the top of the drum?
> 
> BTW how much intake are you running and what temps are you getting.  The UDS needs more air to get a good burn so the fire get's hot enough for a clean burn vs the smolder....don't want the low temp smolder for sure, that'll taste off if that's the case.


I have 4 .750" intakes, all were wide open. I drilled eight .750" holes just under the rim , they are as close to the top of the drum as I could get them. I put them on the side instead of the top to avoid any of issues in the rain. Seen in numerous places that double the intake is needed for the exhaust.


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## inkjunkie (Apr 11, 2015)

Forgot, it was in the 375* range when I was making burgers. On the Egg, with the same exact fuel I normally stay in the 325-350* zone. And I did wait until the drum was down chugging that nasty smoke from warming up


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## fwismoker (Apr 11, 2015)

You were set up good for smoking it sounds like but IDK about doing burgers like that unless they were thick and you were planning on a reverse sear.   Cook something simple like a fattie and see how she runs. Good luck!


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## elkhorn98 (Apr 12, 2015)

Everything sounds ok.  But your temp was higher than your BGE burgers so maybe that is it.  I agree to try a fatty as another test.  Good luck.  I love my UDSs.


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## inkjunkie (Apr 12, 2015)

Fatty.....never made one yet....would think that I should probably make something I am familiar with the taste of for a true "smoke" test? 
Another thing we both noticed was that the burgers had a slightly different color than when they come off of the BGE.  
I did reuse the charcoal basket from my first attempt.  It has had several hot fires in it. And obviously it was not in the first drum when I was burning those nasty boards.


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## inkjunkie (Apr 12, 2015)

Going to run to to town tomorrow and pick up some boneless beef ribs....going to try them on the drum....


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## inkjunkie (Apr 15, 2015)

The rib thing didn't happen. I did pick up a chuck roll. Sliced it up today. Took 2 small steaks and put them on the Egg and the drum. Both at 325*. Both bare naked, no spices. Cooked them til they were at 140 IT....No comparison,  the Egg steak was far more flavorful. 

Perhaps I do have an issue,of sorts with the drum as 325* is as hot as it will get. 4 .750 intakes wide open, 8 .750 exhausts. And hit the chunk charcoal with a boat load of flame from the weed burner...but fail to see what this would have to do with flavor...


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## inkjunkie (Apr 20, 2015)

Have  Tri Tip that needs smoking. Get home early enough today will be firing up the drum...hope it is not going to be a mistake


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## fwismoker (Apr 20, 2015)

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__ fwismoker
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First tri tip...cooked on the Big Poppa UDS. Slow cooked and then brought the basket up to searing level to caramelize the outside some.


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## addertooth (Apr 20, 2015)

I am going to speak UDS heresy here, so hopefully the return flames will be gentle.  Each type of cooker has unique strengths.  Cooking burgers/steaks/baking/pizza is smack dab in the wheelhouse of most ceramic egg-style cookers.  Where you will likely see your UDS shine is Briskets/PulledPork/twiceSmokedHam/Etc.  I have owned a variety of cookers/smokers, including 4 Kamado style cookers.  I reach for the cooker which is most appropriate for the food which is being made.  If I had to have only one type of cooker, it would be a Kamado, as it does the best "overall" cooks of all types of food.  Comparing burgers from a UDS, and from a Kamado is not a good standard for the wonderful smokes a UDS can perform.


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## fwismoker (Apr 20, 2015)

Addertooth said:


> .  Comparing burgers from a UDS, and from a Kamado is not a good standard for the for the wonderful smokes a UDS can perform.


These aren't burgers but I'll put my UDS grilling or searing capabilities  against a Kamado all day every day.... All UDS are not created equal so you can't lump them all in one bucket. 













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__ fwismoker
__ Aug 15, 2013


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## hookedonq (Apr 20, 2015)

I agree with addertooth here. In my opinion your comparing apples to oranges these are two totally different type cookers That cook completely different from one another. Your not gonna get your drum to cook like your egg. Try a longer smoker like a butt or brisket thats what a uds is best for in my opinion


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## hookedonq (Apr 20, 2015)

FWIsmoker said:


> These aren't burgers but I'll put my UDS grilling or searing capabilities  against a Kamado all day every day.... All UDS are not created equal so you can't lump them all in one bucket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


not all uds are setup to grill or sear like yours and im betting the OP isn't maybe thats what he needs to do to get the results he looking for


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## addertooth (Apr 20, 2015)

FWISmoker,

I agree that a good sear can be had on a UDS with a sufficiently low searing grate.  But good burgers and steaks also gain improvement by keeping a moist cooking environment.  A ceramic requires a smaller fire to achieve any temperature due to the greater insulation a ceramic has.  A smaller fire means less air-flow, and less drying out of the meat.  This is part of the reason why Kamados tend to do steaks and burgers so well.  Additionally reflected heat from the dome tends to help cook from all sides at once, which helps with the consistency of the cook.  I absolutely believe great burgers can be made on a UDS, they are just a bit easier to make to the same quality on a Kamado for the reasons stated above.  Or to be more specific, less skill is required on a Kamado than a UDS to get the same results.  The OP stated he was accustomed to burgers made on a Big Green Egg (BGE), as such his methods of cooking most likely expect to leverage the strengths of the Kamado cooker.  He may have to play with the UDS a bit to learn the differences in cook method required to get similar results from his new UDS.


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## fwismoker (Apr 20, 2015)

Addertooth said:


> FWISmoker,
> 
> I agree that a good sear can be had on a UDS with a sufficiently low searing grate.  But good burgers and steaks also gain improvement by keeping a moist cooking environment.  A ceramic requires a smaller fire to achieve any temperature due to the greater insulation a ceramic has.  A smaller fire means less air-flow, and less drying out of the meat.  This is part of the reason why Kamados tend to do steaks and burgers so well.  Additionally reflected heat from the dome tends to help cook from all sides at once, which helps with the consistency of the cook.  I absolutely believe great burgers can be made on a UDS, they are just a bit easier to make to the same quality on a Kamado for the reasons stated above.  Or to be more specific, less skill is required on a Kamado than a UDS to get the same results.  The OP stated he was accustomed to burgers made on a Big Green Egg (BGE), as such his methods of cooking most likely expect to leverage the strengths of the Kamado cooker.  He may have to play with the UDS a bit to learn the differences in cook method required to get similar results from his new UDS.


Dry vs moist has only to do with how cooked meat is.   FWIW I don't lower my cooking grate...it's designed to raise up under the normal cooking grate.     Big Poppa UDS are different then regular UDS is what I'm saying.   I can close off the bottom vents, put in very little charcoal and it'll be a great grill or i can open up the vents and it'll sear like no other....very different from the normal drum.

You are right in your general preface in that UDS are better smokers than grillers...but not in all cases.  IMO The BP kit will do a steak/burger as well as a kamado or better...especia reverse sear and I've used both. If you get a chance to grill on a BP you'll see what i mean.


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## addertooth (Apr 20, 2015)

I have definitely looked at the big papa kit before, it appears to be well designed.  As for whether moisture makes a difference, we may have to agree to disagree on that point.  I have seen your cooks posted, and they look excellent, and as such, have great respect for your ability.


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## inkjunkie (Apr 20, 2015)

Addertooth said:


> I am going to speak UDS heresy here, so hopefully the return flames will be gentle.  Each type of cooker has unique strengths.  Cooking burgers/steaks/baking/pizza is smack dab in the wheelhouse of most ceramic egg-style cookers.  Where you will likely see your UDS shine is Briskets/PulledPork/twiceSmokedHam/Etc.  I have owned a variety of cookers/smokers, including 4 Kamado style cookers.  I reach for the cooker which is most appropriate for the food which is being made.  If I had to have only one type of cooker, it would be a Kamado, as it does the best "overall" cooks of all types of food.  Comparing burgers from a UDS, and from a Kamado is not a good standard for the wonderful smokes a UDS can perform.


Thanks for the explanation.

Tri Tip was tonights victim. Used the drum. Came out very moist and tender. Was a bit "flat" on the spice package. Used the unaltered version of Jeffs rub. Just not enough zing anymore. Even with just the Mesquite chunk charcoal had a very nice smoke ring. 

Caught me off guard a bit. Last few TT I have done on the BGE took a few ticks over 2 hours to reach an IT that is a compromise for us. The UDS, at the same 225* hit that mark at a few ticks under an hour and a half. 

Will be doing some thinly sliced Carne Asada tomorrow, any suggestions, BGE or UDS? We know how it is on the Egg, push the heat up to 550* or so. With the flame that it takes to hit that the meat is more or less in the fire. With my charcoal basket/grate spacing in the UDS that is not going to happen. Leaning towards just smoking on the drum until I get it figured out a bit. 

Would like to thank you folks for your input.


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## inkjunkie (Apr 26, 2015)

Did a pork butt on the drum...outstanding....


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