# Pops6927's Wet Curing Brine



## pops6927

real simple curing brine:

 for every 1 gallon of water, add:

1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)

1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]

1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix

1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt

stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in

weight down with a partially filled 1 qt or 1 gal. ziploc bag or bags to keep meat immersed

Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.

You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters:


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## pops6927

I've had a few people post they couldn't find my brine so I started a new thread so it would be visible for everyone.


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## chef jimmyj

Thank you for the Re-post, this is a great recipe...JJ


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## SmokinAl

Thanks Pops!


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## jak757

Thanks Pops!  I was just thinking of doing this with a turkey or some chickens -- you saved me some time searching!

I also want to do a ham -- loved that ham post you had a while back.  And some pastrami, oh, and some belly bacon...oh man, I better get busy!


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## daveomak

Pops, morning.......I do not have DQ curing salts...............Is there a safe way to use cure #1 and use your brining method ???

I know the 2 cures are different........I have read somewhere the DQ works "faster" when it comes to curing.......Dave


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## africanmeat

Thanks Pops quick and simple


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## venture

Thanks Pops.  I saved it this time.  You have saved us from spending a lot of time searching.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## chef willie

thx  for the repost...appreciate that


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## michael ark

Thanks pops saved it to my hard drive.


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## tjohnson

Pops,

Slap this up as a WIKI

Todd


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## pops6927

DaveOmak said:


> Pops, morning.......I do not have DQ curing salts...............Is there a safe way to use cure #1 and use your brining method ???
> 
> I know the 2 cures are different........I have read somewhere the DQ works "faster" when it comes to curing.......Dave




As far as I know they are all the same: DQ, Instacure, Cure #1, Prague Powder #1, etc.  They all contain 6.25% sodium nitrite.


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## boykjo

thanks pops...............
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Joe


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## joe nichols

thanks pops. do you rinse after the brine soak or do you just put the bacon into the smoker after removing from the brine.


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## pops6927

Yes, I hang it in the smoker and let it drip into the drip pans.


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## billyj571

Thanks for sharing.....


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## joe nichols

thanks pops one more question though i usually do a test batch of what ever seasonings i am trying and wondered how does the smaller size of a pork belly take to cure and smoke. Like is there a standard weight to cure time and how do you time for a cold smoke


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## biteme7951

Pops,

Is there a general guideline as to the ratio of meat to brine??  I want to make sure that I have mixed enough brine, but don't want to mix up way more than I need either.

Thanks for all your posts...they have helped me a lot!!!

Barry.


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## jc1947

*Pops,*

*    Thank you for another tip for us newbies.*

*JC*


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## tank

biteme7951 said:


> Pops,
> 
> Is there a general guideline as to the ratio of meat to brine??  I want to make sure that I have mixed enough brine, but don't want to mix up way more than I need either.
> 
> Thanks for all your posts...they have helped me a lot!!!
> 
> Barry.




Great question.  I was wandering the same thing.


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## SmokinAl

There is no ratio, you just have to use enough to completely submerge the meat. The only ratio is cure to water . If you can cover the meat with 1 gallon, then you only need enough cure for 1 gallon.


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## pops6927

SmokinAl is 100% correct; mix up one gallon, if that's not enough mix up either a half or another whole gallon as needed.  I just did two 4lb. fryers in a 5 gal. bucket and used two gallons, one didn't cover them sufficiently, if you want to use that general concept for an indicator.

A little salt and sugar, a bit of cure and a gallon of water makes magic in a bucket!


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## john3198

Pops - I usually use Morton's Tender Quick which has much less nitrite/nitrate in it (.5% each) verses 6+ percent for Prague  1. can I use TQ for this reciepe?


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## jrod62

Thanks pops,


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## rstr hunter

john3198 said:


> Pops - I usually use Morton's Tender Quick which has much less nitrite/nitrate in it (.5% each) verses 6+ percent for Prague  1. can I use TQ for this reciepe?


Probably should let Pop's take this one, but if I remember correctly tenderquick has more salt which would throw off the overall flavor of the bacon by making it way too salty. Also as recipe is made for Cure #1, I'd stick with that it's not expensive and as long as you use care with it you don't have to hope you do your math right and can measure it all exactly.  Just my two cents.

Pops quick question I'm needing to cure the bellys from my Thanksgiving butchering project and would like to try a wet brine on the first one and possibly use on the rest.  Would you use the 1/3 c or the 1 c of sea salt for this?  Salt content isn't as big of a concern as taste for this.  Thanks Pops.


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## pops6927

john3198 said:


> Pops - I usually use Morton's Tender Quick which has much less nitrite/nitrate in it (.5% each) verses 6+ percent for Prague  1. can I use TQ for this recipe?


No, this recipe is designed for Cure No. 1.  You would have to consult the Morton's[emoji]174[/emoji] site for their sweet pickle cure: http://www.mortonsalt.com/faqs/meat_curing_faq.html

 if you wish to use TQ[emoji]174[/emoji] products or search this and other sites for specific recipes using their product.




Rstr Hunter said:


> Pops quick question I'm needing to cure the belles from my Thanksgiving butchering project and would like to try a wet brine on the first one and possibly use on the rest.  Would you use the 1/3 c or the 1 c of sea salt for this?  Salt content isn't as big of a concern as taste for this.  Thanks Pops.


If you are not salt sensitive or having to be salt conscience, you would probably want to use the 1 cup measure.  The Lo-salt is a sweeter flavor as it increases the concentration of the sugars by lowering the salt (but if you are diabetic you can use Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] products for the sugars 1 to 1).


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## rstr hunter

Thanks Pops


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## biaviian

Any idea on the weight of your sea salt?  I use kosher so I'm looking for a good conversion. So far I have just been doing 1 cup of kosher and it turned out tasting sweet, like your low sodium description, but my last run turned out bad (slimy) so I'm hoping to get more exact measurements in case it was something I did.


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## flareside92

I decided to try the wet cure with 2 10lb loins.

I trimmed the fat, mixed up the brine but after reading these posts, hate to admit that I am unsure of the time these loins should be in the brine.

When I make these any other time I have always used the dry cure, vacuum sealed and left in fridge for 10 days.

I have read 2-3 days and I've read 6-8 days.

update:

I have to read more info before I start asking questions, especially when the answers are already here, just have to look harder.

Thanks


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## shoneyboy

Just found this and thought I would give it a bump out of respect !!!!


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## yount

made a few batches using dry rub next gonna try this one thanks for sharing


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## diggingdogfarm

What degree brine is this supposed to be?

Thanks!

Martin


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## pops6927

Last time I measured with my salinometer if I remember correctly it is 35°, low enough for poultry.


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## oleksandr

This is how I cure my Canadian bacon:

Meat 1-2kg, 2-4 lbs.

2 liters water or 2 quarts of water
70 grams or 2.5 ounces (5 tablespoons Morton’s) kosher salt
30 grams or 1 ounce (2 tablespoons) sodium nitrite (I use  DQ Cure #1)
60 grams sugar or 2 ounces (1/4 cup)
5 cloves garlic smashed with the flat side of a knife
2 bay leaves
All spice, coriander, 1 tbsp each. (optional)
Brine for 3 days. Drying overnight in a fridge.

Source: http://ruhlman.com/2011/02/canadian-bacon-brining-basics/

I buy pork loin in 8-9 lbs packs and I just double the recipe. The bacon is very tasty and is not over salted.


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## sneeferson

As i live in a hot weather climate (Bangkok, Thailand) and my ambient temps day and night are 85-90 and sometimes up to 95... should i be sticking this brine solution with my meat in the fridge?


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## daveomak

Sneeferson said:


> As i live in a hot weather climate (Bangkok, Thailand) and my ambient temps day and night are 85-90 and sometimes up to 95... should i be sticking this brine solution with my meat in the fridge?


Sneeferson... evening.....   Yes it goes in the refer..... about 38 deg F is good...  And the length of time is usually figured at 1/4" per day + 2 days, minimum..... and remember the brine and cure is penetrating from both sides so a 2" thick slab figures 4 days + 2 days minimum and mixing or rotating or turning is recommended for safety and uniform curing contact.....   Dave


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## salahaddin

Pops... I'm curious, why do you add so much sugar? Doesn't that give the smoked meat a very sweet taste rather than salty?

- Newbie :D


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## chef jimmyj

salahaddin said:


> Pops... I'm curious, why do you add so much sugar? Doesn't that give the smoked meat a very sweet taste rather than salty?
> 
> - Newbie :D


 Pops can answer for sure but from reading his many posts this Brine is based on his Dad's Brine that is many years old and tried and true with Thousands of pounds of meat sold. I as well as many here have used it for Bacon. Buck Board Bacon and Canadian Bacon, I will do a Ham some day, and can attest to it being Awesome and perfect for Pork. It does have a somewhat sweet taste but is nicely balanced when used with 1/2 to 1Cup Salt...JJ


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## oleksandr

salahaddin said:


> Pops... I'm curious, why do you add so much sugar? Doesn't that give the smoked meat a very sweet taste rather than salty?
> 
> - Newbie :D


If you like it more salty, give it less sugar. Sugar is not curing meat. It is just there to lower the harshness of salt and for taste purposes. Personally, I find classic Canadian bacon and ham too sweet for my taste, so I use less sugar. Also I add a lot of garlic and some all spice to my brine. It tastes great. 

I have found the best way for me to prepare a brine is to recalculate it based on meat weight. I put my recipe into a spreadsheet and recalculate the ingredients based on how much meat I have. I also pump the meat with solution. It reduces the curing time.


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## cfarley

Bump for all the holiday Peeps!!!


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## kingfishcam

After reading 10-20 days to brine corned beef, then 1/4 inch per day, plus 2 days, I am still unsure how to gage the length of time to brine.
Any help?


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## chef jimmyj

kingfishcam said:


> After reading 10-20 days to brine corned beef, then 1/4 inch per day, plus 2 days, I am still unsure how to gage the length of time to brine.
> Any help?


I would go the longer of the two or if the Brisket is really thin...Split the difference. Always better to go long then under cure...JJ


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## kingfishcam

Thank you JJ, that is exactly what I needed to hear!


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## cfoxtrot

Chicken/Turkey question...

What is the difference between just using a brine, or a brine with cure for chicken or turkey. Does the cure change the flavor, moisture ect.

Sorry if it's a stupid question...

Thanks


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## shtrdave

Others can tell you for sure but it has been my experience that curing poultry turns it kind of hammy. I have used cure on chicken breasts and had chicken ham, now that was Mortons Sugar cure and it may not be the same with Pops recipe.


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## chef jimmyj

shtrdave said:


> Others can tell you for sure but it has been my experience that curing poultry turns it kind of hammy. I have used cure on chicken breasts and had chicken ham, now that was Mortons Sugar cure and it may not be the same with Pops recipe.


Yep the addition of Cure will give a somewhat Hammy flavor and dark meat will stay pink, think Turkey Ham. The other benefit is regardless of the birds size virtually any temp or length of time can be used to get it smoked. A basic Brine adds the flavors of herbs and spices that are included but basically leaves the poultry flavor intact...JJ


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## smoker21

With the weather being iffy this time of the year I have a couple of questions.

1:  I used Pop's brine recipe 6 days ago.  Is 6-7 enough time to get some good flavor?

2: What temp is too cold to smoke bacon?

Thanks all for your wisdom.

JD


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## chef jimmyj

Smoker21 said:


> With the weather being iffy this time of the year I have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1:  I used Pop's brine recipe 6 days ago.  Is 6-7 enough time to get some good flavor?
> 
> 2: What temp is too cold to smoke bacon?
> 
> Thanks all for your wisdom.
> 
> JD


Unless the Bellies were very Thin, 3/4 inch or less 6-7 days is not long enough to get 100% penetration.

As long as you are above Freezing you can Cold Smoke, not to mention that depending on what you are generating Smoke with you may end up raising the temp  some anyhow.

Please go back to you Profile and add you location under Edit Community Profile. This will help us help you if we better understand you weather conditions and altitude...JJ


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## smoker21

And when you brine chicken you're talking hours not days/weeks so the need for the nitrites aren't really needed anyway.

My 2 cents

JD


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## smoker21

regular belly's (1 1/2"-2" thick) should take how long in Pop's brine?  Just got my A-Mazing new toy and wanna try it out.

Also how long is too long??

Thanks.

JD


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## cfoxtrot

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Yep the addition of Cure will give a somewhat Hammy flavor and dark meat will stay pink, think Turkey Ham. The other benefit is regardless of the birds size virtually any temp or length of time can be used to get it smoked. A basic Brine adds the flavors of herbs and spices that are included but basically leaves the poultry flavor intact...JJ


Thanks for the reply, makes sense!


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## smoker21

Pops6927 said:


> Yes, I hang it in the smoker and let it drip into the drip pans.


Hi Pop's.

What is Pellicle?  I keep reading about leaving your belly in the fridge for a day after the brine until it forms.

Is it really necessary?
[h1] [/h1]
Thanks.

JD


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## smoker21

Tank said:


> Great question.  I was wandering the same thing.


Me too!

JD


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## daveomak

Smoker21 said:


> Hi Pop's.
> 
> What is Pellicle?  I keep reading about leaving your belly in the fridge for a day after the brine until it forms.
> 
> Is it really necessary?
> [h1] [/h1]
> Thanks.
> 
> JD
Click to expand...




Smoker21 said:


> JD


Smoker21 & JD....  Evening.....  Yes it is necessary when smoking any meat....   rinse thoroughly, dry with paper toweling... place in refer or in front of a fan .... until the surface of the meat is dry and semi firm to the touch....   In my opinion, smoke coming in contact with a wet surface makes acid rain.... smoke + water.... tastes very bad....   

Dave

Pellicle (cooking), a skin or coating of proteins on the surface of meat, fish or poultry, which allow smoke to better adhere the surface of the meat during the smoking process. Useful in all smoking applications and with any kind of animal protein, it is best used with fish where the flesh of, say, Salmon, forms a pellicle, the surface that will attract more smoke to adhere to it than would be the case if you had not used it: Without a pellicle; the fish would be inedibly dry from enough smoking to produce a tasty finished product. It is the pellicle which permits the transformation creating delectable Smoked salmon.


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## hurriken

Is there a substitute for the DQ Cure? We have a family member that needs to stay away from red dyes.


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## chefmjg

Thank you pops


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## daveomak

Hurriken said:


> Is there a substitute for the DQ Cure? We have a family member that needs to stay away from red dyes.


Hurriken, afternoon....  Let's look at cure #1.....   First... there is about 1.1 grams of the cure used per pound....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Prague Powder #1. Get yours today from The Great American Spice Company!

[h2]Usage:[/h2]Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat. Mix cure with cold water.

[h2]Ingredients:[/h2]Salt, Sodium Nitrite, Red #3, less than 2% Sodium Silico Aluminate & Propylene Glycol added as flowing agent.


FDA Nutritional Information

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Looking at the ingredients  list.... we can safely assume Red #3 is less than 6% and maybe above 2%....

That would make the Red #3 at 20-60 milligrams per pound of meat....  If that is a problem, perhaps you could contact

The Great American Spice Company and let them know of the Red Dye conflict and your diet concerns....   Perhaps, they could put you in contact with the manufacturer and a different dye could be used for a 2# package for you......

Best of luck....   Dave 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.sausagesource.com/catalog/ssm-acj-8oz.html

1 lb package or jar. Can be used as a dry rub cure.
Also known as Prague Powder #1, Fast Cure, Speed Cure or Quick Cure.
Ingredients: salt, sodium nitrite (6.25%), FD&C red #3 (0.00099%) with not more than 1% sodium carbonate added to prevent caking.
Just found this..... Since by definition, it has less Red #3.... You could order it from the above link......  I am not saying it HAS less Red #3, just that the way they list their ingredients, it says it has less by definition....   They all may be the same.... who knows....


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## diggingdogfarm

Hurriken said:


> Is there a substitute for the DQ Cure? We have a family member that needs to stay away from red dyes.



There's not a direct substitute that I know of, all cure #1 is dyed pink.

You could make a brine with Morton Tender Quick or one of the curing mixes sold by butcher supply stores. No red dye in those.


~Martin


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## hurriken

You guys are great. I really appreciate the time you took. As it turns out Red #3 is not so bad. Red #43 is the one that is bad for him. I was being a bit paranoid I think! Like you say the concentrate is so small it shouldn't be a problem. I'm going to go ahead and use the recipe as written.


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## daveomak

That was good news....   
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  ....   don't forget pictures of the process and results...   Dave


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## flareman

Pops, do you hot or cold smoke your bacon? Smoking time ?


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## ballagh

bump......55 pounds of bellies hitting the brine tonight :)


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## pops6927

FlareMan said:


> Pops, do you hot or cold smoke your bacon? Smoking time ?


I hot smoke all my bacons to  minimum 135°, partially cooked, (enough to kill trich) to 146°, fully cooked.  I always give some to my sons and I don't want to worry that they'd eat it uncooked and die or get sick.


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## splash1

Hey Pops,

I appreciate you posting your recipe and look forward to trying it.

Can I substitute Kosher salt for sea salt in the recipe.  If so does the volume change at all?

Thanks You


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## pops6927

I just use plain ol' non-iodized salt.  Some salts are coarser and will change the amount of salinity of your cure; try what you like and modify it as necessary on subsequent brines!   Not critical, have fun and experiment!


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## wingrider

A great thread with lots of information. I've read every post and still have a question.

Because of meat prices, and what I like, I tend to smoke pork loins. I'm wanting the smokiest taste I can get, which is difficult because I'm using a MES 30 which I understand does not give as deep a smoke flavor as using a wood fired smoker. However, it is what it is. After much experimentation the method I use that has given me the best results is as follows.

I buy whole loins in generally the 8 lb range. I cross cut the loin in 3 pieces, remove the fat/membrane, and then cut each piece lengthwise to maximize surface area to expose to the smoke. So I end up with roughly rectangular pieces roughly varying in thickness from 1 inch to 1.5 inches or so.

For a moister result, I then brine the pieces in a brine pretty much like Pops but have never used any cure. I've settled on about a 2 day brine as I went 3 days one time, and it seemed that the meat's texture/flavor started changing more than I wanted at that point. I'm after smoked loin, not Canadian bacon. I then rinse the meat, pat dry, rub with mustard, and coat with Jeff's rub.

Since no cure, I've roughly followed the 4 hour rule. I cold smoke for 3 hours using an AMNPS, then turn on the heat with the wood tray loaded with chips. Since even cold smoking has usually raised the meats temp to 90°+, it does not take long to bring it on up to 145°. Very tasty, but I'd like to get even more smoke flavor if I could.

So my question is this. I've noted from this thread and others on making bacon, that often times people are shooting for a smoking time of up to 30+ hours. Given that I can understand the brining/curing time of 1 day per 1/4" + 2 days. However, that's going to give me bacon. If I'm only shooting for maybe increasing my cold smoking time up to maybe 6 hours (in an attempt to get a more smoked flavor) so 7 to 8 hours total time, do you thing a 2 day brine, with cure #1 would be safe?

Thanks.


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## daveomak

WR, evening......  why not try a dry rub.....  2% salt, 1/4 - 1% sugar, 0.012% cure #1 (120 Ppm ) and any other aromatics you prefer....  rub in well and wrap with plastic wrap for 10-15 days or so in the refer at about 38 deg F...... rinse and dry.... hang in the smoker with vents wide open and smoke until you get a beautiful mahogany type glaze.....  Keep the smoker below 70 for a week or better and smoke for 10-12 hours/day...   

I agree that brine has some effect on flavor.....  I prefer dry rubs.... seems that intensifies the flavors as dry aging a steak does...  could be just me and my old school ideas...  

Dave


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## diggingdogfarm

[quote name="WingRider" ] I'm after smoked loin, not Canadian bacon. 
[/quote]

In that case, I wouldn't use cure.
I'd equilibrium brine with a mild brine so as not to change the texture of the loin much.
I'd leave the loin whole and not cut it into slabs.
I wouldn't compromise the interior of the loin and do a nice long smoke at a safe temperature.




~Martin


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## chef jimmyj

If you use Cure #1 for a sufficient amount of time, you can smoke for hours or days at any temp, Cold, Warm or Hot...BUT, you will get Canadian Bacon not Smoked Pork Loin or if you only leave it in the Cure a day or two, you will get a Canadian Bacon " covered " smoked Pork Loin but it will be the thickest Faux Smoke Ring you have ever seen. Either way the Hammy flavor will be on a portion or all through the meat...Technically, USDA guidelines, if you Brine it without Cure, cold smoking more than 2 hours in the 90*F range can still generate a large amount of Bacterial growth. Yes, typically it is no big deal as anything that survived the Salty Brine will be killed when the meat is brought up to temp. However there are a few nasty bugs that generate Toxin as they multiply. Some toxins are destroyed or rendered harmless at 200+*F, some are not. So by cold smoking for several hours without Cure you carry some risk of getting sick...Some will and have disagreed with me, *so this is strictly My Opinion and I make no Guarantees as to it's Safety in any way!*... IF AND ONLY IF...You Sanitize yourself, work area and tools with a disinfectant, 1T Bleach in a Gallon of Water works nicely, Wash the meat, Brine without Cure, Don't Inject, Crosscut, attempt to make it into Sausage or insert the Therm Probe before hot smoking, apply Mustard (contains Acid and more Salt) then apply a Salty Rub like Jeff's, Cold smoke for 6 hours, followed by HOT, 225+*F, smoking until the meat reaches 140*F or more AND this meat is for personal consumption by healthy individuals...Feel free to invite me over for Dinner...JJ


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## wingrider

DaveOmak said:


> WR, evening......  why not try a dry rub.....  2% salt, 1/4 - 1% sugar, 0.012% cure #1 (120 Ppm ) and any other aromatics you prefer....  rub in well and wrap with plastic wrap for 10-15 days or so in the refer at about 38 deg F...... rinse and dry.... hang in the smoker with vents wide open and smoke until you get a beautiful mahogany type glaze.....  Keep the smoker below 70 for a week or better and smoke for 10-12 hours/day...
> 
> I agree that brine has some effect on flavor.....  I prefer dry rubs.... seems that intensifies the flavors as dry aging a steak does...  could be just me and my old school ideas...
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave - thanks for the response. Several questions/comments:

Given your percentages for the dry rub, if I use 1% sugar, then that adds up to 3.012%. So whats the other 96.988 of the dry rub made up of?

As to your suggestion of keeping the smoker below 70, well you live in Washington, I live in North Carolina. The temperature of the smoker is above 70 all the time unless it's winter. The MES must be darned well insulated as I was smoking cheese last winter when the ambient outdoor temp was in the high 20's low 30's. So cold I had to heat the control unit on the MES with a hair dryer before it would turn on to show me what the temp was. Under those conditions, and ONLY using a AMNPS to cold smoke, it was still all I could do to keep the interior temp under 90 by opening the door occasionally. Just saying, LOL

I did try a dry rub on salmon once, and really liked it. Think it was Dionysus's brown sugar and garlic rub.


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## wingrider

DiggingDogFarm said:


> I wouldn't compromise the interior of the loin and do a nice long smoke at a safe temperature.
> 
> ~Martin


Hi Martin - many thanks for the response.

So how long is "...a nice long smoke...", and what is a "safe temperature?"

I cold smoke for several hours, then turn on the heat. Doesn't matter what I turn the heat on for, the loin reaches and internal temp of 145 way before the setpoint temp is reached.


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## wingrider

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Some will and have disagreed with me, *so this is strictly My Opinion and I make no Guarantees as to it's Safety in any way!*... IF AND ONLY IF...You Sanitize yourself, work area and tools with a disinfectant, 1T Bleach in a Gallon of Water works nicely, Wash the meat, Brine without Cure, Don't Inject, Crosscut, attempt to make it into Sausage or insert the Therm Probe before hot smoking, apply Mustard (contains Acid and more Salt) then apply a Salty Rub like Jeff's, Cold smoke for 6 hours, followed by HOT, 225+*F, smoking until the meat reaches 140*F or more AND this meat is for personal consumption by healthy individuals...Feel free to invite me over for Dinner...JJ


Hey Jimmy - you are most definitely invited for Dinner. Thanks for the suggestions. I will definitely try this


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## daveomak

WingRider said:


> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> 
> WR, evening......  why not try a dry rub.....  2% salt, 1/4 - 1% sugar, 0.012% cure #1 (120 Ppm ) and any other aromatics you prefer....  rub in well and wrap with plastic wrap for 10-15 days or so in the refer at about 38 deg F...... rinse and dry.... hang in the smoker with vents wide open and smoke until you get a beautiful mahogany type glaze.....  Keep the smoker below 70 for a week or better and smoke for 10-12 hours/day...
> 
> I agree that brine has some effect on flavor.....  I prefer dry rubs.... seems that intensifies the flavors as dry aging a steak does...  could be just me and my old school ideas...
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Dave - thanks for the response. Several questions/comments:
> 
> Given your percentages for the dry rub, if I use 1% sugar, then that adds up to 3.012%. So whats the other 96.988 of the dry rub made up of?
> 
> WR, evening......  Those percentages are based on the weight of the meat.....  sorry for the confusion.....   Percentages of salt, sugar and cure, based on the weight of the meat, are the important seasonings to base a rub on......  then the other percentages of  spices, based on the weight of the meat, are for personal preference...  Below is a list of spices, based on grams per kilogram of meat, that are a starting point I guess....
> 
> The way I figure this out is, weigh the meat, weigh the salt, sugar and cure for that particular piece of meat....  weigh the spices I want to add to the meat individually........   taste the spice mix, (*before the cure is added*).... see how you like it.....  try it on the meat then make additions or corrections based on the final flavor of the meat....  when you get it perfect, you have all the numbers to reproduce it perfectly.....  *This method also works for regular meat without cure.... *
> 
> When you get a big batch of rub mixed up, all you have to do is weigh the meat and weigh the correct amount of spices/rub to add to it...... Perfectly spiced meat every time.....  If I screwed up this explanation, PM me and I will make an in depth example for you.....
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...


Spice in grams per 1 kg of meat Allspice2.0Bay leaf2 leavesCardamom1.0 - 2.0Caraway seeds2.0Caraway powder0.5Cayenne pepper0.5Celery salt1.0Chillies0.5Cinnamon0.5 - 1.0Cloves1.0 - 2.0Coriander1.0 - 2.0Cumin1.0Curry powder1.0Fennel2.0Fenugreek1.0Garlic paste3.0 - 5.0Garlic powder1.0Ginger0.5Juniper2.0Mace0.5Marjoram2.0 - 3.0Mustard2.0Nutmeg1.0Onion (fresh)10.0Onion powder2.0 - 5.0Paprika2.0Pepper-white2.0 - 3.0Pepper-black2.0 - 3.0Red peppers0.5Thyme1.0Turmeric2.0 - 4.0*Other Ingredients in g per 1 kg of Meat* Non fat dry milk powder4.0Soy powder concentrate1.0 - 3.0Sugar1.0 - 2.0


----------



## wingrider

Dave,

Great explanation. Many thanks. I love the approach of calculating it based on the meat instead of the other ingredients so as to be able to apply it to varying amounts of meat. Very good.

Just out of curiosity, what to dry milk powder, or soy powder concentrate do in a rub?

Thanks again.


----------



## chef jimmyj

WingRider said:


> Dave,
> 
> Great explanation. Many thanks. I love the approach of calculating it based on the meat instead of the other ingredients so as to be able to apply it to varying amounts of meat. Very good.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what to dry milk powder, or soy powder concentrate do in a rub?
> 
> Thanks again.


Daves process and Chart are great and will give good starting point or accurately reproduce a recipe. Soy and Milk don't do any thing to Rub. They are used to help retain moisture in Sausage. The rest of the chart applies to sausage and equally well in Rub...JJ


----------



## daveomak

WingRider said:


> Dave,
> 
> Great explanation. Many thanks. I love the approach of calculating it based on the meat instead of the other ingredients so as to be able to apply it to varying amounts of meat. Very good.
> 
> *Just out of curiosity, what to dry milk powder, or soy powder concentrate do in a rub?*
> 
> Thanks again.


Like JJ said, moisture retention....   I use it in breakfast sausage patties, to hold the fat, so the patties stay moist... and in hog cased sausages... If you use the soy, use as little as possible....  I find it give the bkfst sausage a weird texture and flavor when you start nearing 2 1/2%...   I keep my mix about 1 1/2-2%....  Dave


----------



## fpmich

*Pops6927,*

I'm posting this, not only to give your thread another bump, but because I think it is something newcomers like myself, can benefit from & use.

*Now my personal questions: * (I think I may have asked some of these in another thread, but can't find it right now.)

1.  Will this brine work on "any" whole meat?  beef, lamb, pork, fish, poultry?  (I understand cure will make pork and poultry hammy tasting)

2.  Will it work for drying meats like jerky, and dried beef hunks?   Wife loves SOS, but I hate all the salt, from the jarred stuff she buys.

*This next question is very important to me!*

*3.  Do I have this right? * As long as the curing brine is made with 1 TBSP per gal of water, and then, as long as meat is fully covered, it will work.   Say, I mix a gal of your recipe, but only use a pint of it, in a small Ziplock bag with some jerky strips.  The jerky will still brined safe and sound, the same as if I had used the whole gal?

4.  Is that TBSP a "Heaping tbsp." or level tbsp?   You mentioned that a heaping tbsp. equals about an ounce, but your recipe only said a tbsp.

5.  I see that your recipe says "up to" 3 + tbsp. is safe for one gal water.   If I wanted a more shelf stable, or longer product, then I should use more than I tbsp?  And if it was something to be consume rather quickly within a couple of weeks, then only one?

6.  I know you put a few times in your original post, of times, but wondered if you could expand on the time to brine various meats to be safe a bit more?

*7.  *I have heard a tiny bit about you, and your Dad's store. * I love and respect family history's,* and love seeing how things were done in the past.  I also love old photo's of the same.  *When you have time, could you please PM me* and send some links & photo's, of your past with your dad, that I could enjoy?   I'd appreciate that immensely Pops!

*Thank you so much* for your time, and contributions to the site, to benefit others.

Humbly your student,


----------



## wingrider

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Some will and have disagreed with me, *so this is strictly My Opinion and I make no Guarantees as to it's Safety in any way!*... IF AND ONLY IF...You Sanitize yourself, work area and tools with a disinfectant, 1T Bleach in a Gallon of Water works nicely, Wash the meat, Brine without Cure, Don't Inject, Crosscut, attempt to make it into Sausage or insert the Therm Probe before hot smoking, apply Mustard (contains Acid and more Salt) then apply a Salty Rub like Jeff's, Cold smoke for 6 hours, followed by HOT, 225+*F, smoking until the meat reaches 140*F or more AND this meat is for personal consumption by healthy individuals...Feel free to invite me over for Dinner...JJ


Hi Jimmy - I did this several weeks ago, and it turned out great. Nobody died, or even got a tummy ache. When all was said and done I ended up cold smoking for 7 hours as it took me an hour to realize that the smoker wasn't heating up after I turned on the heater. At that point I pulled the meat and actually cooked it in the oven. Still excellent.

Turned out I had the famous MES corroded wires heater failure. I've repaired that and did my first turkey breast as a test run. I will use this method to smoke loins going forward.

Thanks


----------



## disco

I just made Bacon on a Stick with this brine. Turned out great.

Thanks, Pops.

Disco


----------



## bagbeard

hi Pops love your posts, ive made pastrami based on your cure recipe and it was good , but i had access to only pure sodium nitrate and made an error in my concentration.  it was only a little over half strength. meat was still great just nice red colour didnt penetrate.

just wondering about curing larger cuts, at what thickness do you need to inject meat to attain proper penetration of cure?

I dont plan on doing anything large any time soon, just doing a lot of research on curing meats for future projects. this site is a huge help and there are many great books out there.

Happy Smoke!!


----------



## bagbeard

Nitrite


----------



## antvq

​I just put 3lbs of belly into Pop's brine.  In two weeks I'll hot smoke it to 145 per Pops recommendation.  Can't wait to see how it turns out. This will be my first try and doing bacon.


----------



## disco

Antvq said:


> ​I just put 3lbs of belly into Pop's brine.  In two weeks I'll hot smoke it to 145 per Pops recommendation.  Can't wait to see how it turns out. This will be my first try and doing bacon.


I suspect you will love it. I have never gone wrong following Pops recipes.

Disco


----------



## frank68

HI 

Thanks

where can l get Pink Salt?

I have MES gas an a 40 electric smoker

what is the Temp you smoke your bacon at

thanks  frank68


----------



## pops6927

fpmich said:


> *Pops6927,*
> 
> I'm posting this, not only to give your thread another bump, but because I think it is something newcomers like myself, can benefit from & use.
> 
> *Now my personal questions: * (I think I may have asked some of these in another thread, but can't find it right now.)
> 
> 1.  Will this brine work on "any" whole meat?  beef, lamb, pork, fish, poultry?  (I understand cure will make pork and poultry hammy tasting)  *Yes*
> 
> 2.  Will it work for drying meats like jerky, and dried beef hunks?   Wife loves SOS, but I hate all the salt, from the jarred stuff she buys.  *See my sig line for dried beef; you can reduce the salt if you are salt-sensitive to as low as ¼ cup per gallon of brine vs. 2 cups.  Make sure you smoke to about 175° to get firmness in the meat for slicing thin.*
> 
> *This next question is very important to me!*
> 
> *3.  Do I have this right? * As long as the curing brine is made with 1 TBSP per gal of water, and then, as long as meat is fully covered, it will work.   Say, I mix a gal of your recipe, but only use a pint of it, in a small Ziplock bag with some jerky strips.  The jerky will still brined safe and sound, the same as if I had used the whole gal? *Yes, the whole thing is concentration within a given volume; once concocted, changing the volume does not change the concentration.*
> 
> 4.  Is that TBSP a "Heaping tbsp." or level tbsp?   You mentioned that a heaping tbsp. equals about an ounce, but your recipe only said a tbsp.  *Yes, a level tablespoon (tbsp) measures out to .85 oz. on my scale; a "heaping" tbsp measures out to 1 oz approx.  The maximum concentration is achieved at 3.84 oz. per gallon, so you can see that I use far less; only enough to do the job.   You soak a little longer with a milder brine and the meat is more tender and less tinny taste.*
> 
> 5.  I see that your recipe says "up to" 3 + tbsp. is safe for one gal water.   If I wanted a more shelf stable, or longer product, then I should use more than I tbsp?  And if it was something to be consume rather quickly within a couple of weeks, then only one?  *All brined meats should require refrigeration at a minimum, and freezing if longer than 14 days.  Dry cured and long-smoked meats can be kept longer at room temp for more shelf stability, but this is an entirely different process - the long smoking times add preservatives to the meat itself from the smoke, drying and preserving it (the smoke ring effect).*
> 
> 6.  I know you put a few times in your original post, of times, but wondered if you could expand on the time to brine various meats to be safe a bit more?
> 
> *7.  *I have heard a tiny bit about you, and your Dad's store. * I love and respect family history's,* and love seeing how things were done in the past.  I also love old photo's of the same.  *When you have time, could you please PM me* and send some links & photo's, of your past with your dad, that I could enjoy?   I'd appreciate that immensely Pops!
> 
> *Thank you so much* for your time, and contributions to the site, to benefit others.
> 
> Humbly your student,


My dad at the meat block:













dadatblock.jpg



__ pops6927
__ Oct 29, 2013
__ 1






Our Store:













scan.jpg



__ pops6927
__ Oct 29, 2013






Sign on the side of the building:













scan0002.jpg



__ pops6927
__ Oct 29, 2013






Hams and bacons hanging in the cooler:













scan0001.jpg



__ pops6927
__ Oct 29, 2013








bagbeard said:


> hi Pops love your posts, ive made pastrami based on your cure recipe and it was good , but i had access to only pure sodium nitrate (later corrected that it was nitrite) and made an error in my concentration.  it was only a little over half strength. meat was still great just nice red colour didnt penetrate. *Before smoking, there should be no red color, but after smoking and cooking, the meat should be pink inside, not gray.  If it's still gray, then it didn't get properly cured.*
> 
> just wondering about curing larger cuts, at what thickness do you need to inject meat to attain proper penetration of cure?  *3 - 4 inches thick or with internal bone structure*
> 
> I dont plan on doing anything large any time soon, just doing a lot of research on curing meats for future projects. this site is a huge help and there are many great books out there.
> 
> Happy Smoke!!





frank68 said:


> HI
> 
> Thanks
> 
> where can l get Pink Salt?  *I use Butcher Packer or Sausagemaker, but any site that sells Cure #1 or by other names (Prague Powder, InstaCure, etc.).  The Cure #1 is for short curing times up to 30 - 45 days.  There is also Cure #2.  This contains nitrates as well as nitrites and is for longer curing times and/or added to long cure meats, along with other ingredients to promote a culturing product that takes many months to cure properly as a drying cure to remove moisture, not a brining cure that adds moisture.*
> 
> I have MES gas an a 40 electric smoker
> 
> what is the Temp you smoke your bacon at  *Normal temp of 225° - 250°  and to internal of 146° fully cooked.*
> 
> thanks  frank68


----------



## crustyo44

Hi Pops,

Busting my boiler to try out your brine recipe, Low salt is my preference for health reasons. I will report back soon.

Thank you,

Jan.


----------



## fpmich

Thank you Pops for your reply to answer my questions and for the photo's.

I appreciate it much.


----------



## bagbeard

thanks


----------



## antvq

Bacon is done.  2 weeks in Pop's cure, then 16 hours in the smoker.  I did steal a few pieces to fry up and taste, the rest is wrapped in plastic wrap in the fridge. I'll be slicing that up tonight most likely.  This has to be the best bacon I've ever had.  It tastes nothing like the stuff you get in the grocery.   The only issues I had are

1. Has just a tad too much salt in it.  Next batch I'll cut back to 3/4 and see what happens.

2. I used about 8.5oz of Pure Maple Syrup in the cure thinking it would give a hint of the maple flavor to the bacon.  Nope, didn't work.   Anyone have a suggestion on the amount to use or when to use it to get that good flavor?


And of course the pics....

3 lbs of belly before going into the cure.













Bacon 1.jpg



__ antvq
__ Nov 12, 2013






After 16 hours in the smoker.  I kept my MES tempreature below 170 and took the Bacon to 150 internal. Was trying for 160 but by 2 AM I was just wanting to sleep.  I used the MAVERICK ET-732 to keep track of the temps as my MES is terrible about showing the real temp inside the smoker.  I have to set the temp to around 145 to keep the temp at 165.  I also used the A-MAZE-N-PELLET-SMOKER (both the pellet smoker and the Maverick were purchased from Todd) The pellet smoker was a gift from God.  Loaded it up and got it going and other than tweaking the temp to find what worked to keep the smoker under 170, I didn't have to worry about smoke until 11 hours in when I refilled with pellets and fired it up again. 













Bacon 2.jpg



__ antvq
__ Nov 12, 2013






Cut myself a few slices to taste test.  So good!
 













Bacon 3.jpg



__ antvq
__ Nov 12, 2013






It was so good, had to slice off a few more pieces.  Just to make sure ya know...
 













Bacon 4.jpg



__ antvq
__ Nov 12, 2013






With a pretty successful first attempt at bacon (thanks to the advice of everyone who posts here) I'm off to find more than just a 3 pound belly.  Need more Bacon!


----------



## crustyo44

Hi,

How much salt did you actually use?  With Pops brine the salt can be varied a lot?

Your bacon looks great.

I am getting ready to do some myself.

Cheers,

Jan.


----------



## antvq

​
I used the one cup that Pop's calls for.  Now I just took the bacon back to my butcher for slicing and he said he didn't taste too salty to him. I guess everyone has different tastes.


----------



## frank68

DSCN0123.JPG



__ frank68
__ Nov 17, 2013


















DSCN0124.JPG



__ frank68
__ Nov 17, 2013


















DSCN0125.JPG



__ frank68
__ Nov 17, 2013


















DSCN0126.JPG



__ frank68
__ Nov 17, 2013


















DSCN0127.JPG



__ frank68
__ Nov 17, 2013






this is my smoke bacon


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## crustyo44

Frank68,

Your bacon looks mighty good, I am jealous. I will be using a bit less salt as I am looking to decrease my salt intake.

Thank you for posting your photo's

Cheers,

Jan.


----------



## eddiej1967

hello everyone, newbie here, I have a question, do you use the QT curing salt along with the simple brine that pops posted? Or is one or the other?

Thank you

Eddie


----------



## waywardswede

Hi Eddie

Pop's brine calls for cure #1, which is different than Morton's TQ, they are not interchangeable.

There are recipes here for dry curing using TQ which are very good, also:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/108099/bacon-extra-smoky

You can order cure #1 online from plenty of places, check out Meat Processing Products (http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/meatprocessingproducts, they're a sponsor here, or do a google search for 'The Sausage Maker' (I thought they were a sponsor, too, but I don't see them on the page anymore)


----------



## eddiej1967

I am sorry I meant to type in DQ curing salt, is that the same as cure #1, and thank you for repling, there is a lot to learn, I came to the right place.

Thank you


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## waywardswede

Not sure about DQ, I was assuming that you meant Morton's Tender Quick, usually just referred to as TQ in these parts.


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## eddiej1967

Thanks again, I just printing out receipe for dry cure, I will try this as well.


----------



## mike bolack

Okay, new to this... so whats the worst case senario if my fresh ham only sits in a brine for 5 or 6 days?


----------



## daveomak

Mike Bolack said:


> Okay, new to this... so whats the worst case senario if my fresh ham only sits in a brine for 5 or 6 days?



curing is something that home folks cannot speed up for safety reasons.....   And recipes should be followed exactly.....   
The parameters set in recipes are there to eliminate safety/health issues....   Improper curing coupled with smoking of meats is a recipe for growing botulism....
The worst case scenario is a healthy dose of botulism.....   if not for you, maybe a loved one...  The survival rate is something you may want to consider....


----------



## pops6927

Mike Bolack said:


> Okay, new to this... so whats the worst case senario if my fresh ham only sits in a brine for 5 or 6 days?


Well, first let's check out what prep you've done.

Is it a fresh ham or fresh front arm shoulder?

Either way, if it is bone-in, you need to inject it with the curing brine first, then put it in the brine and hold it down with a weight (I use a half-filled ziploc of water).

For a front arm shoulder, minimum brining time would be 10 days.

For a fresh ham, minimum brining time would be 14 days.

If only 5 days, esp. with no injection, you risk the cure not reaching the inner parts of the product and it would be like fresh pork inside:













uncured cured pork.jpeg



__ pops6927
__ Dec 17, 2013






If this happens, no curing would be present and the inner pork would spoil after 4-5 days, risking a health hazard.

Not worth it nor the ER bills.


----------



## fpmich

*A  picture is worth a thousand words, sure holds true with that photo!  *Thanks Pops!

You can see that un-cured portion plain as day!  Nice photography.

*Just think folks, and remember,* to thank the people like Pops and others. who take the time and effort to educate us.

They have to wreck a piece of meat before it's time, take the pic, get it into their computer and maybe edit, or crop it, a bit.

Then they take time to read and answer questions, in threads and Pm's, then post the photo's and explain it, over & over again.

They do this day after day, just so us newbies can click and see.

We may think this stuff is simple to show.  It isn't!

It's very time consuming, and comes from wanting to help others with learning, as well as insuring our safety, the best they can.

*Hat's off to Pops, and all the many other members, who do this stuff day in and day out!  *They are dedicated & under-appreciated.


----------



## africanmeat

thanks for keeping us safe.


----------



## smoker21

I can never say thanks enough to everyone for all the help I've received here!!


----------



## shtrdave

I look at the picture above and wonder how does one know if the inside of their meat looks this way or not before cooking, I have about an 8 pound but in brine now been in there for maybe 10 days I did inject brine into the meat but just curious how one would know for sure with out cutting it open to check?

Also is the brine a one time use thing or can I put something else in it when I take the butt out?


----------



## fpmich

Without experience, you probably won't know shtdave, without cutting and looking,

unless, you follow Pops guidelines for amount of time in brine. Then it will be cured all the way through. 

That's why it's wise to follow an OTBS members recommendations.  They have the experience and know what they are doing, and what is safe.

Also a couple extra 2 or 3 days in brine does no harm at all.  But a few days shorter in brine, can do harm.  If you are going to try shorter brine time then slice and test, or use a stronger brine recipe.  From what I've read, Pops brine is considered a mild (weak, but safe) brine, so longer soak times are needed.  But his Dad, and he, believed it produced better quality meat product.

There are a lot of brine/cure info on this site, but finding, sorting, and understanding is another thing.  I'm still pulling my hair out over this curing thing. (If I had any hair, that is :)

Good Luck to you and I.  LOL

Remember they started out just like us, clueless until learning and experience kicked in.


----------



## shoneyboy

Pops6927 said:


> Well, first let's check out what prep you've done.
> 
> Is it a fresh ham or fresh front arm shoulder?
> 
> Either way, if it is bone-in, you need to inject it with the curing brine first, then put it in the brine and hold it down with a weight (I use a half-filled ziploc of water).
> 
> For a front arm shoulder, minimum brining time would be 10 days.
> 
> For a fresh ham, minimum brining time would be 14 days.
> 
> If only 5 days, esp. with no injection, you risk the cure not reaching the inner parts of the product and it would be like fresh pork inside:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uncured cured pork.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> __ pops6927
> __ Dec 17, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this happens, no curing would be present and the inner pork would spoil after 4-5 days, risking a health hazard.
> 
> Not worth it nor the ER bills.



This was a pork loin that I was making Canadian Bacon out of...... Pops cure is one of the easiest recipes for curing that I have used..... The main thing is, don't rush it !!!! Give it the time it needs to do its thing.......an extra day, and this would have been all this would have needed......and it would have been perfect .......... The hardest most difficult part of Pops recipe is what he left out of the recipe........ and that's LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!! You can't rush purfection !!!!!! I have have to learn patients and control from following is hobby........ Being apart of this group has taught my so much...... Thanks...... ShoneyBoy


----------



## pops6927

shtrdave said:


> I look at the picture above and wonder how does one know if the inside of their meat looks this way or not before cooking, I have about an 8 pound but in brine now been in there for maybe 10 days I did inject brine into the meat but just curious how one would know for sure with out cutting it open to check?
> 
> Also is the brine a one time use thing or can I put something else in it when I take the butt out?


No, it is a one-use system.  Throw it away and use fresh brine.  Don't forget, the brine is soaking into the meat and the meat is soaking into the brine, depositing blood and bacteria in it so it should never be "re-used".  Thank you so much for asking that question!

You can leave meat in the brine for up to 45 days safely (depending on the condition of the brine, may need to change it if it gets ropy).  And, as it is not at its strongest level possible, over-curing is not a factor.

Thank you, Shoneyboy, also - couldn't remember where or who I snagged that Qview from, lol!  It is a great shot and does exemplify what under-curing can do.


----------



## fished

I'm fairly new to this site.  I read the post by others and have learned a lot.  I don't think they are under-appreciated at all.  I have to come to the conclusion that the best way to learn something new is to seek and follow the advice of those who already know what they are doing.  There are a lot of good people on here who have been at this for awhile and are willing the help and teach us new people so we can be safe and successful.  For that I am grateful.  There is no better way to learn then from listening to those who have been there before.  I give a big thankyou to all of you experience folks out there willing to help the rest of us learn this great hobby.


----------



## eddiej1967

Nicely and accurate said!!


----------



## integritybbq

I agree, thanks to all the experienced members!!! Lord knows I have asked TONS of questions!!


----------



## runnerbl

Can I cut up a pork butt and put in brine then grind up as sausage. Want to smoke it.  Or, do i just need to add cure to the my normal fresh grind procedure?


----------



## pops6927

What are you making?


----------



## runnerbl

breakfast sausage...just wanna give it some smoke flavor.  I can cold smoke in winter but when I run out in summer wanna make sure I can make it safely


----------



## reinhard

I have added ham to fresh sausage for extra flavor as i have smoked bacon.  If your making smoked sausage there is no need to brine the pork butt but to use the insta cure for the entire batch.  Use your fresh pork butt, grind it, [i put all the seasonings and cure in the correct amount of water] add the seasonings,cure, and liquid and mix well.  i grind it once more at this time [first time course and second time medium depending what sausage you are making].  Then let the mix set overnight in the fridge to let the seasonings and cure blend in.  Next day stuff and smoke it.  Hope this answers the question. 

I also have to add that i thank Pop's for his knowledge and developing his brine.  I have two boneless pork loins in his brine right now for canadian bacon.  I have used it many times and pass it on to my friends to show them how to make canadian bacon and buckboard.  Thanks Pop's. Reinhard


----------



## runnerbl

Reinhard said:


> I have added ham to fresh sausage for extra flavor as i have smoked bacon.  If your making smoked sausage there is no need to brine the pork butt but to use the insta cure for the entire batch.  Use your fresh pork butt, grind it, [i put all the seasonings and cure in the correct amount of water] add the seasonings,cure, and liquid and mix well.  i grind it once more at this time [first time course and second time medium depending what sausage you are making].  Then let the mix set overnight in the fridge to let the seasonings and cure blend in.  Next day stuff and smoke it.  Hope this answers the question.
> 
> I also have to add that i thank Pop's for his knowledge and developing his brine.  I have two boneless pork loins in his brine right now for canadian bacon.  I have used it many times and pass it on to my friends to show them how to make canadian bacon and buckboard.  Thanks Pop's. Reinhard


Reinhard..I am assuming you are saying Cure#1.  I have never added water when making sausage, although I have only made it once.  What is the correct liquid amount per pound of sausage?  What is the purpose of adding water? The cure I am guessing you are using 1/2 tsp per #?


----------



## reinhard

Yes the cure i talked about is Cure # 1 [the pink stuff]. The purpose of adding water is for added moisture.  It also helps lubricate the stuffing tube, making it easier to stuff. Another thing i do is to mix all the seasonings and the cure in the water and then pouring it over the meat.  This helps distribute the seasonings and cure evenly through the meat.  It's a good idea to let the meat set in the fridge overnight so the seasonings and the cure can blend in the meat mix.  I first grind the meat once through a course plate, then pour the liquid with the seasonings and cure over the meat. Then i grind the mix one more time through the medium plate and then put it in the fridge overnight for the next days stuffing.

I use dry powdered milk when i make sausage [fresh or smoked]. This is a binder, and helps retain the moisture in the sausage mix. I just made 25 pounds of venison polish for example which i used 1 cup of dry'd powderd milk per 5 pounds of meat and used a total of 5 1/2 cups of water for the whole batch.  This makes for a sticky final product which is the texture you want. I will post some pics in the Sausage Forum later of the polish.  The correct amount of cure #1 is 1 tsp per 5 pounds of sausage mix.  Sorry didn't want to hyjack this excelent thread so maby any further questions should be in the Sausage Forum where i will post the venison polish pics.  Reinhard


----------



## runnerbl

Reinhard said:


> Yes the cure i talked about is Cure # 1 [the pink stuff]. The purpose of adding water is for added moisture.  It also helps lubricate the stuffing tube, making it easier to stuff. Another thing i do is to mix all the seasonings and the cure in the water and then pouring it over the meat.  This helps distribute the seasonings and cure evenly through the meat.  It's a good idea to let the meat set in the fridge overnight so the seasonings and the cure can blend in the meat mix.  I first grind the meat once through a course plate, then pour the liquid with the seasonings and cure over the meat. Then i grind the mix one more time through the medium plate and then put it in the fridge overnight for the next days stuffing.
> 
> I use dry powdered milk when i make sausage [fresh or smoked]. This is a binder, and helps retain the moisture in the sausage mix. I just made 25 pounds of venison polish for example which i used 1 cup of dry'd powderd milk per 5 pounds of meat and used a total of 5 1/2 cups of water for the whole batch.  This makes for a sticky final product which is the texture you want. I will post some pics in the Sausage Forum later of the polish.  The correct amount of cure #1 is 1 tsp per 5 pounds of sausage mix.  Sorry didn't want to hyjack this excelent thread so maby any further questions should be in the Sausage Forum where i will post the venison polish pics.  Reinhard


Thanks Reinhard.  I didn't put any water in the first batch of sausage I make.  Didn't see that in Pops country style breakfast sausage thread. Still tasted good.  Will look for your post in other forum.


----------



## rugerlab

How long would you brine a pork loin (4 pounds) ???


----------



## foamheart

RugerLab said:


> How long would you brine a pork loin (4 pounds) ???


Injected?

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/152322/ham-loin-loin-ham-foamheart


----------



## buffalo bob

I want to cold smoke some brats for flavor, then freeze them untill summer and then finish them on the grill. Will using a wet cure protect the brats  from bacteria growth? I am using a MES30 with Masterbuilt cold smoker attacment and the ambient temperature will be about 20*F. This is my first cold smoke and any help is appreciated. 
Thanks,
Bob


----------



## daveomak

Buffalo Bob said:


> I want to cold smoke some brats for flavor, then freeze them untill summer and then finish them on the grill. Will using a wet cure protect the brats  from bacteria growth? I am using a MES30 with Masterbuilt cold smoker attacment and the ambient temperature will be about 20*F. This is my first cold smoke and any help is appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Bob




Brats, like stuffed in a casing.....    They should have cure #1 added to the meat before stuffing and smoking.....


----------



## rugerlab

No injection, it is only about 2 to 3 inches thick


----------



## foamheart

RugerLab said:


> No injection, it is only about 2 to 3 inches thick


 In Pop's brine, probably 5 to 7 days. I always go the extra mile though. I'd hate to pull it and then realize that it wasn't completely permeated. I always leave in Pops for........

*“Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.) If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.”*

That's the rules I use, hasn't let me down yet.


----------



## rugerlab

Thanks Foamheart


----------



## daveomak

RugerLab said:


> No injection, it is only about 2 to 3 inches thick




What Foam noted.....  over 2" thick, the meat should be injected with the curing brine and then submerged in the curing brine for the noted number of days, while in the refer......


----------



## rugerlab

Injection is what I will do...  thanks for the help


----------



## frank68

hi  

  can you give me a good curing recipes Belly Bacon

thanks  frank68


----------



## foamheart

frank68 said:


> hi
> 
> can you give me a good curing recipes Belly Bacon
> 
> thanks  frank68


There is really two basics that are extensively use around here, one is a dry rub cure, and one is a brine cure. Here are two good links, one for each with plenty of notes, suggestions, enhancements, smokes, etc etc...

Bearcarvers Tutorial (Dry Rub)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/108099/bacon-extra-smoky

Craigs Tutorial (Pops Brine)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124885/bacon-made-the-easy-way

Hope they help.


----------



## scott farmer

I'm hoping that some of you more experienced folks can give me some advice. I've been curing some BBB made from a pork picnic in pops brine mixture for about 18 days. Tonight I pulled it out of the brine to get it ready to dry so I could cold smoke this weekend. When I opened the container things smelled a little "funny". I wouldn't say rotten egg smell exactly, but kind of close and the brine and meat are kind of slimy. The Meat looks fine and after a rinse in cold water the smell seems to have gone away. 

So the question is, did I goof and ruin this batch,or is this somewhat normal. I haven't read any experiences like this in other threads and the handy search bar hasn't produced any hits. This is my first run with wet curing/brining meat for smoking so forgive the newbie question.


----------



## daveomak

Was the meat in the refer the entire time....   Did you mix/stir it during the 18 days.....  Did you inject the brine along the bones when first setting up and into the meat...
If all that was done, you should be fine....  here is a note on "ropey, slimy brine".....    Dave













Ropy Stringy Brine 1.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Mar 7, 2014


















Ropy Stringy Brine 2.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Mar 7, 2014


----------



## scott farmer

Thanks for the reply Dave. After I posted this last night I tried a bunch of different searches here and on Google. Realizing that slimy was spelled slimy and not slimey netted a ton more results and lead me to a thread with your exact attachment. I had carved up my picnic into smaller chunks before the brine so there was no need to inject. I did stir everything at day 8 and it all seemed normal at that time. 

Thanks again for the reply and the information. 

Scott.


----------



## daveomak

Scott Farmer said:


> Thanks for the reply Dave. After I posted this last night I tried a bunch of different searches here and on Google. Realizing that slimy was spelled slimy and not slimey netted a ton more results and lead me to a thread with your exact attachment. I had carved up my picnic into smaller chunks before the brine so there was no need to inject. I did stir everything at day 8 and it all seemed normal at that time.
> 
> Thanks again for the reply and the information.
> 
> Scott.



Scott, morning.....   Cutting up a leg into chunks and then curing, makes more sense to me....   No need to worry about bone sour, incomplete curing etc....   I have even cut up beef roasts when making pastrami....  cures faster.... slices easier.....    

Anyway, glad you found out what you needed to know.....    

Dave


----------



## smokindeb

Thank you!


----------



## aahhyes68

I'm going to read through this thread a few times and try absorb this information.. I have 40# of trimmed, skin on pork bellies to cure and don't want to screw it up.

Great thread. :)


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

Aahhyes68 said:


> I'm going to read through this thread a few times and try absorb this information.. I have 40# of trimmed, skin on pork bellies to cure and don't want to screw it up.
> 
> Great thread. :)


Here is another article Pop did about brining/curing and bacon making.  It may help out some as well.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/making-bacon


----------



## aahhyes68

JaxRmrJmr said:


> Here is another article Pop did about brining/curing and bacon making.  It may help out some as well.
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/making-bacon


That IS another good post ! Thank you for sharing that !!

I guess I feel comfortable enough getting the brine going this week. While I'm waiting, I can keep reading about what to do after the 14 days is up.

Thanks guys..

Steve


----------



## denise lynn

_this is the most amazing thread  so thank-you for re-posting  it all ~~~i have a question in regards to Michael Rhulmans method of brine versus Pops brine method ~~i do realize they are quite different methods  but i have  Rhulman's book on Charcuturie  states  a quotion of 2 liters water ~~3/4 cup kosher salt ~~1 cup brown sugar~~4 teaspoons Progue powder #1  for the insta cure ~~ his method is  to cure 2 pounds  per-day refrigerated of coarse ~~~~~this is quite a bit shorter brine time than pops brine recipe  and he does advocate using brown sugar ~~many others do as well ~~ then one soaks it for a couple hours to remove some of the salt ~`dry well ~`and then let set in the fridge overnight to air dry well so the smoke will adhere instead of steaming ~~~ my question has anyone tried Michael Rhulmans method  and how did you like it ~~i have also seen some recipes on this site for making black forrest ham using as much a 4 tablespoons Progue powder #1 ~~per 1 gallon of water ~~~seems like quite a bit to me but wondered if this is so one does not have the longer curing time in the fridge and would it tend to be safe as far as the bacteria does then go ??? thank-you for any response  ~~Miss~~Belle ~`a~~Que ~~I am wanting to cure and smoke a po 4 pound pork butt into a ham form by mothers day for my kids  and have been a bit late getting to the party here ~~smile _


----------



## pops6927

The more cure no. 1 you add, the shorter the brining time.  The maximum per gallon of water is 3.84 oz (5 tablespoons) of cure.  

I prefer a longer, weaker brine as prescribed by my dad, who was NYS Inspected daily in his meat and grocery store and had State certification on his brine.  According to him (and backed up by NYS Inspection), he contended that by lowering the amount of cure in his brine and lengthening the time in the cure, it would produce a product that was still fully cured and also tenderized by the lengthened enzyme action in the brine and be more tender, and was allowed by the State to cure for longer times with a weaker cure.  Of course, he had his 'curing sugar' mixed up to his specifiications by the Aula company (then in Detroit?) and shipped by rail in 300lb. barrels, dropped off at the rail station down the street, which he would pick up (side note: I'd ride with him as a boy when he would pick up a barrel and often admired the house sitting next to the station - it used to be a hotel.  A couple years after Linda and I got married, we purchased that house and I remodeled the front room into a beauty shop for her - it was called "The Depot Beauty Shoppe", lol!). 

Sorry, I digress!  Soon, he had to have a minimum order of 600 lbs. of it shipped to him, then 900 lbs., then they stopped making it near the end of his ownership of the store  I had the foresight to rip off the barrel label and stock it in a box of store papers.  30 years later I came across it and developed my own interpretation of my dad's brine with common ingredients, know known as "Pop's Brine", and utilizing his same method of a slow, safe cure for tenderness.

The label:













Dads curing salt.jpg



__ pops6927
__ May 11, 2014






This was after Aula sold their company to ITC and I could see the writing on the wall that the era of my dad's "Special Cure" was going to end.

So, to make a long story longer, lol, that's the story of how my brine interpretation came to being, with one factor, that curing for a longer time in a milder brine will produce a product ready to heat or cook that requires no soaking before or after smoking, because the salt level is more to the user's palate.   I have since modified my brine to a 'lo-salt' version cutting all the ingredients in half (except the curing salt) - salt, sugar and brown sugar - ½ cup vs. 1 cup each.  After 5 strokes I had to.

That is why my curing brine is weaker.


----------



## fpmich

I love the little personal history stories you toss in once in awhile, Pops.

I think that is what makes so many of us, _"feel" a connection_, to you and your Dad.


----------



## smoker21

What a hoot.  Thanks Pops.


----------



## smoker21

Hey Pop's and all,

I just found some fresh bellies and I bought them out of impulse 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






.  Not knowing what the future temps are going to be, can I brine them  and then freeze them or freeze them in the brine until a cooler night is forecast?

Thanks for your help.

JD

/


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

"Fresh" bellies don't necessarily mean that they haven't been frozen, just that they are not "cured".  I buy my bellies when they are frozen and then brine them.  However, I'm not sure about freezing them after brining or while brining.  I'm sure someone will come along that can offer better advise.


----------



## smoker21

I made up a batch of Pop's brine and am going to zip bag the bellies in the brine and freeze the in two pound pieces.  I'll you all know how they turn out.


----------



## mark66

Is there a specific reason to use any sugars or sweeteners in brine?


----------



## pc farmer

I think it offsets the salt taste.


----------



## jerevil

So I am looking to do a pork shoulder and had not thought about brining it. I always brine my pork loins. Is there much added benefit to brining the shoulder?


----------



## pops6927

The 'brining' is with a curing brine, having sodium nitrite in it to cure the bellies to change to pork to cured pork, like salt pork.  Then, when you smoke it, the product becomes ham, bacon, and so on.


----------



## knifebld

Just got off the phone with Danny at Butcher & Packer Supply....

PROS: 2 lbs of DQ Curing Salt was only 3.50$ per lb

CONS: Shipping 2 lbs to Montréal cost me over 20$ 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Placed the order anyway cause I can't find the stuff here anywhere! :)


----------



## revjcp

How long for a hock?


----------



## foamheart

knifebld said:


> Just got off the phone with Danny at Butcher & Packer Supply....
> 
> PROS: 2 lbs of DQ Curing Salt was only 3.50$ per lb
> 
> CONS: Shipping 2 lbs to Montréal cost me over 20$
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Placed the order anyway cause I can't find the stuff here anywhere! :)


You don't need to cure way up north, just hang it out on the porch. <Chuckles>

Yee Haw!! I found a new source and I graduated with the owner....... They had cases of bellies in stock, said the trotters and hocks would be about the time the fresh ha,s came in. That meant when it gets cooler. Woot Fresh hams!! Making a list, need yowls, hocks, trotters, temples,  ham........... <does a Snoopy happy dance>

I got a cryo pack of butts, 24lbs! Just deboned and but part in a cure I am thinking ham, oh yeah!

BTW my bellies were 3.65 /lb. but the bacon was on sale for only 6.00/lb. I can do this.


----------



## knifebld

Need some help on caculating the right measurements of cure....

I purchased 5lbs of Instacure #1 from The Sausage Maker, just got it today. On the label it says for wet brining add 3 OZ per gallon of water, yet in Pop's recipe it states 1 tbsp (about 0.5 OZ) per gallon. So what should I do? I thought Instacure was the same as pink salt #1?

Hopefully someone knows cause it would be a shame to waste 16 lbs of pork....or to kill my family with food poisoning!


----------



## dandl93

knifebld said:


> Need some help on caculating the right measurements of cure....
> 
> I purchased 5lbs of Instacure #1 from The Sausage Maker, just got it today. On the label it says for wet brining add 3 OZ per gallon of water, yet in Pop's recipe it states 1 tbsp (about 0.5 OZ) per gallon. So what should I do? I thought Instacure was the same as pink salt #1?
> 
> Hopefully someone knows cause it would be a shame to waste 16 lbs of pork....or to kill my family with food poisoning!


It is the same.If you read all of POPs brine he says some where there is a max amount allowed and a min amount allowed he does not use the Max in his recipe.His father came up with this years ago using less cure #1 and still making a safe product.This is what or how I read it maybe POPs will come along or some one else and confirm I read correctly.

Dan


----------



## foamheart

You know from the 100's of happy users that Pop's formula works, right?

I am sure I could normally do the math here, just not today. I am sure someone will jump in here soon.


----------



## daveomak

Use Pops method for a better quality product....    Dan is correct mentioning min/max for cure amounts....   Pops method also added extra time in the cure/brine for thorough penetration of all additives...   Pops brine also passed inspection from the Feds when they were in business....


----------



## mark66

"You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters:"

This is part of Pops first post here.


----------



## waywardswede

Hey Chad

Yeah, Mark beat me to it, I was looking for the actual post, but his recipe is 1 oz (heaping tablespoon) per gallon, plus the salt and the sugar.  He says you can go up to 45 days in the brine that way, but seems he usually goes about 3-4 weeks.  Seems longer times with lower dosage gives more tender ham, and based on the results I've had I have to agree.

This is the recipe I've settled on, makes a pretty sweet ham but that's what my family likes:

1 oz cure #1

1/2 cup sea salt or 3/4 cup kosher salt

3/4 cup  white sugar

1 cup brown sugar

1 tbs garlic powder

1 tbs onion powder

Mixed in 1 gallon of water.  I've checked this against Martin's (DiggingDogFarm) calculator, and it comes out right on the money for a 200 PPM nitrite mix.


----------



## stovebolt

WaywardSwede said:


> Hey Chad
> 
> Yeah, Mark beat me to it, I was looking for the actual post, but his recipe is 1 oz (heaping tablespoon) per gallon, plus the salt and the sugar.  He says you can go up to 45 days in the brine that way, but seems he usually goes about 3-4 weeks.  Seems longer times with lower dosage gives more tender ham, and based on the results I've had I have to agree.
> 
> This is the recipe I've settled on, makes a pretty sweet ham but that's what my family likes:
> 
> 1 oz cure #1
> 
> 1/2 cup sea salt or 3/4 cup kosher salt
> 
> 3/4 cup  white sugar
> 
> 1 cup brown sugar
> 
> 1 tbs garlic powder
> 
> 1 tbs onion powder
> 
> Mixed in 1 gallon of water.  I've checked this against Martin's (DiggingDogFarm) calculator, and it comes out right on the money for a 200 PPM nitrate mix.


Not to nit pick but that should read 200 PPM nitrite mix not nitrate I believe.

Chuck


----------



## knifebld

Thanks for all the help guys! Look out for the QView coming soon! :yahoo:


----------



## daveomak

stovebolt said:


> Not to nit pick but that should read 200 PPM nitrite mix not nitrate I believe.
> 
> Chuck



Nit-picking is GOOD when it comes to food safety.....


----------



## waywardswede

Thanks for picking that up, Chuck, I fixed it.  Drives me nuts when folks are careless like that, and here I'm doing it myself!


----------



## saigonjj

First I want to join in thanking Pops for posting his recipe.  But I am hoping someone can help clarify something for me.  

I normally dry-cure my meats (bacon and small hams), and for this type of curing you assume that all the nitrite applied will permeate into the meat.  This makes it easy to calculate how much nitrite to have in the rub.

For brine curing, I'm less clear.  I am looking at the USDA food inspector's handbook.  When discussing brine curing it talks about two methods of calculation.  The first method talks about "percent pickup", which is the ratio of the amount (weight) of brine which will be absorbed into the meat to the weight of the meat.  My question is how does one determine or even guess at what this rate is?

If my quick calculation of Pops' brine with maximum nitrite was correct (3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine), the nitrite in ppm is around 1800 (less if you account for the salt and sugar in the mix), so if a 10% pickup is assumed, that would be about 180 ppm.  So is 10% pickup a good guess or fairly standard?


----------



## daveomak

saigonJJ said:


> First I want to join in thanking Pops for posting his recipe.  But I am hoping someone can help clarify something for me.
> 
> I normally dry-cure my meats (bacon and small hams), and for this type of curing you assume that all the nitrite applied will permeate into the meat.  This makes it easy to calculate how much nitrite to have in the rub.
> 
> For brine curing, I'm less clear.  I am looking at the USDA food inspector's handbook.  When discussing brine curing it talks about two methods of calculation.  The first method talks about "percent pickup", which is the ratio of the amount (weight) of brine which will be absorbed into the meat to the weight of the meat.  My question is how does one determine or even guess at what this rate is?
> 
> *If my quick calculation of Pops' brine with maximum nitrite was correct (3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine), the nitrite in ppm is around 1800 (less if you account for the salt and sugar in the mix), so if a 10% pickup is assumed, that would be about 180 ppm.  So is 10% pickup a good guess or fairly standard?*




JJ, morning....   Ppm is calculated using the weight of meat, water, sugar, salt etc...    
So....  at 8.35#'s of water per gallon and adding the weight of the meat....  Ppm can be figured....      Remember, 120 Ppm ingoing nitrite, for bacon, is the MAX. allowed...  
Pops dad had the recipe tested by the inspectors....  they ran a business....   It ,at least, met the minimum guidelines for an appropriate amount of cure....  Having less nitrite, yet having enough to do the job, makes for a tastier finished product..  Also, the time in brine, allows for something closer to an equilibrium brine....


----------



## bill ace 350

Hello. Up to this point, I haver never used a brine. I have used a dry rub for bacon and Canadian bacon. I was thinking of making up some of Pops Brine and using it later this fall for turkey, bacon, Canadian bacon, and possibly my first attempt at a ham. The question I have is, can I mix up a couple of gallons and keep it refrigerated? How long will it it last? Thanks.


----------



## dandl93

Bill Ace 350 said:


> Hello. Up to this point, I haver never used a brine. I have used a dry rub for bacon and Canadian bacon. I was thinking of making up some of Pops Brine and using it later this fall for turkey, bacon, Canadian bacon, and possibly my first attempt at a ham. The question I have is, can I mix up a couple of gallons and keep it refrigerated? How long will it it last? Thanks.


Why would you not want to just make it fresh when you are ready to use it?

I just finished making my first approx 40lbs of Bellie Bacon/Back Bacon and a Bone in leg Ham in POPs Brine.It was easy and fast to mix up the Brine all at the same time as preparing the meat.

Thanks POPS for a great turn out on my meat.

Dan


----------



## bill ace 350

Not a problem making it as I go, but was wondering how long it would last in the fridge...Might want to have some on hand for a spur of the moment use. So, how long will it last refrigerated? Thanks.


----------



## daveomak

Bill Ace 350 said:


> Not a problem making it as I go, but was wondering how long it would last in the fridge...Might want to have some on hand for a spur of the moment use. So, how long will it last refrigerated? Thanks.



It's best to not make up curing solutions ahead of time....   It can get ropy and degrade....   It only takes 15 minutes to make up a batch...   Why take a chance on having it go bad.....

As a side note...... when making up curing/brine solutions.....  DO NOT ADD THE CURE TO WARM OR HOT WATER......   wait for it to cool....


----------



## bill ace 350

Thanks for the advice everyone!


----------



## biaviian

I PMed Pops but thought I'd post here too.

 I put two bellies in the brine last Saturday with plans to smoke it 10 days later.  However, I now have to travel.  Will it hurt them to sit in the brine 14-15 days?  I used 1/2 cup of kosher salt per gallon so the salt is low.  I also used 1 ounce of pink salt per gallon.  The other option is to smoke them Sunday which would be 7 full days.


----------



## dandl93

Biaviian said:


> I PMed Pops but thought I'd post here too.
> 
> I put two bellies in the brine last Saturday with plans to smoke it 10 days later.  However, I now have to travel.  Will it hurt them to sit in the brine 14-15 days?  I used 1/2 cup of kosher salt per gallon so the salt is low.  I also used 1 ounce of pink salt per gallon.  The other option is to smoke them Sunday which would be 7 full days.


I just finished some Bellie Bacon and Back Bacon this month.I went with the 1/2 cup of salt and 14 days in Pops brine on the Bellie Bacon and 15 days on the Back Bacon.I was very happy it all turned out great.

Dan


----------



## dirtsailor2003

Biaviian said:


> I PMed Pops but thought I'd post here too.
> 
> I put two bellies in the brine last Saturday with plans to smoke it 10 days later.  However, I now have to travel.  Will it hurt them to sit in the brine 14-15 days?  I used 1/2 cup of kosher salt per gallon so the salt is low.  I also used 1 ounce of pink salt per gallon.  The other option is to smoke them Sunday which would be 7 full days.



Nope you're good to go. You can leave them in for as long as something like 30-40 days. I typically do a 14 day cure when using Pop's Brine. Something always seems to pop up right when it's time to pull and smoke! Usually work!


----------



## venture

Yep.  Don't worry about it.

Within reason, a little extra curing time is fine.

Biggest problems come with not measuring the cure carefully or not curing for a sufficient time.

Good luck and good smoking.


----------



## ak1

Pops brine is pretty much fool proof. Make brine, toss meat into it, forget it.  Thing is with Pops brine... it's not maxed out on cure. so you can basically ignore it. It gets to equilibrium and pretty much stays there.


----------



## rgautheir20420

If I'm going to cut down the amount of water my a proportion, say from 1 gallon to a 1/2 gallon, then does that mean I'll cut all of the other ingredients by the same proportion? I'm going to be using this brine for some tasso, and I'll need nowhere near 1 gallons worth.


----------



## Bearcarver

rgautheir20420 said:


> If I'm going to cut down the amount of water my a proportion, say from 1 gallon to a 1/2 gallon, then does that mean I'll cut all of the other ingredients by the same proportion? I'm going to be using this brine for some tasso, and I'll need nowhere near 1 gallons worth.


Yes, just so the ratio stays the same---Make sure you have enough to keep the meat submerged.

Bear


----------



## rgautheir20420

Thanks Bear. I'll be using a zip log bag for curing and massaging each morning and night for the curing period.


----------



## daveomak

edit


----------



## rgautheir20420

Dave, sorry for the delayed response. I did see your comment last night...but it was late. I'll respond to it even though you've edited I guess. I'll only be doing 2 - 3 lbs of pork shoulder cut into approx 2" strips. I can always mix up more if needed, but I'm figuring the half gallon should do it. I'll start a new thread for the tasso later.


----------



## bubba watson

Gotta keep this one handy. Thanks.


----------



## dr k

I have an 11lb. turkey I'm going to cure for 3-4 days in 3 gallons of water with 3T cure + salt and sugar.  The turkey is still thawing in the fridge so I'm pre diluting the pink salt in a 1/2 gallon of water.  I'm not sure if that's necessary.  Since my plastic food grade container I use to make beer in is so wide, with dead space to cover the turkey with the wet cure, can I add pork bellies for bacon or pork loin for Canadian bacon with the turkey or do poultry, pork and beef need to cure by themselves.  I would leave the pork in for a total of 14 days.

-Kurt


----------



## clayt upnorth

*Hey Pop's: I can't thank you enough for the brine! Everything I make turns out GREAT.*

*When you do turkeys say 12 to 14 pounds, how long do you leave them in? I read your post from a few years ago and I think I got 3 days or is it 4? Will a longer time make it to salty or will it only take in just so much?*

*I will be slicing 4 pork loins made into Canadian Bacon(my second batch) this afternoon.*

*The last Buckboad was so good, never had bacon like that before!*

*My new smoker is working fantastic. Thanks for all the info from you and all the gang on the fourm. Clayt*


----------



## paulcaseyjr

Hi,

Just wanted to say a *big thank you!*  I know this is a smoking forum, but the discovery of this brine has made me crazy!

I'm a Brit ex-pat and been in the US for over 30 years and always had the cravings for "real" Brit bacon - ie from the loin.  And apart from some trips overseas and some unsuccessful attempts at on-line bacon, it's been a bacon desert.

A few of the ex-pats got together last year to raise some pigs - another joy.  Our latest pigs went to the butchers a few weeks ago.  The taste of the meat was unrecognisable from anything store bought.  Which then led to the research that led to this amazing thread.

First experiments were with a store bought loin - couldn't risk the home raised pork on an experiment...

To cut a long story short, our group has enjoyed boiled bacon (and cabbage), fried bacon - with fat and no strange white substances leaking out in the pan, hocks for the pea soup, brined trotters and next week moving onto bacon spare ribs which will be brined and then boiled.  Would like to try the belly pork into what Brits call streaky bacon, but the only thing I'm missing is a contact with a good meat slicer.

I made some minor adjustment to the recipe, but this is pure gold.  Cumberland sausage is my next research 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






My family thanks you - as well as the ex-pats group in Keene, NH.

Paul


----------



## foamheart

paulcaseyjr said:


> To cut a long story short, our group has enjoyed boiled bacon (and cabbage), fried bacon - with fat and no strange white substances leaking out in the pan, hocks for the pea soup, brined trotters and next week moving onto bacon spare ribs which will be brined and then boiled.  Would like to try the belly pork into what Brits call streaky bacon, but the only thing I'm missing is a contact with a good meat slicer.
> 
> I made some minor adjustment to the recipe, but this is pure gold.  Cumberland sausage is my next research
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family thanks you - as well as the ex-pats group in Keene, NH.
> 
> Paul


----------



## paulcaseyjr

My bad!

Problem is when something comes out of the pan, it's devoured, followed by the thought "should have taken a picture of that"!!!  All that's left is a big smile...

Next time!

Paul


----------



## clayt upnorth

https://statich.smokingmeatforums.com/4/4c/4c24be2d_brinecalculator.zip

*More Pop"s brine CB!  Love that stuff*


----------



## paulcaseyjr

So here was the loin as it came out of the pan last night.  Seems like the cure was all the way through and consistent.

And more to the point was excellent - just managed to save 2 slices for today's lunchtime sandwich ;)













PC_20141012_181634_PerfectlyClear0001.jpg



__ paulcaseyjr
__ Oct 13, 2014


----------



## reinhard

That's Pop's brine at work !!!  Great job on the Canadian Bacon!!.  Reinhard


----------



## dr k

I didn't hear from anyone on my question about combining different proteins in the same curing pot (3 days ago, last post on page 9), so the turkey and loin for the Canadian bacon are swimming in the same pool.


----------



## rgautheir20420

Dr K, I'm no pro and hopefully this response will give you a bump so the smarter people will respond. With that said, I can't see why this would be an issue. Both proteins are in a Cure brine so there shouldn't be an issue of cross contamination. The only thing I might do is move the pieces around each day to make sure if any parts that are touching the bottom or each other get exposed to the brine equally like the rest. Good luck!


----------



## dirtsailor2003

Dr K said:


> I didn't hear from anyone on my question about combining different proteins in the same curing pot (3 days ago, last post on page 9), so the turkey and loin for the Canadian bacon are swimming in the same pool.



I had asked the same question several years ago. I had beef and pork that I wanted to do at the same time. It wasn't recommended to mix. I'll have to look for the post. I think I actually PM'd Pops on it.

Just went through my PM's and Pop's answer was not to mix different meats in the brine. 

You probably should PM him and see what he says about your pork and chicken mixture.


----------



## dr k

rgautheir20420 said:


> Dr K, I'm no pro and hopefully this response will give you a bump so the smarter people will respond. With that said, I can't see why this would be an issue. Both proteins are in a Cure brine so there shouldn't be an issue of cross contamination. The only thing I might do is move the pieces around each day to make sure if any parts that are touching the bottom or each other get exposed to the brine equally like the rest. Good luck!


I thought it would be ok to combine the turkey and the pork loin in the same container, being in a cure. I posted my original question while the turkey was thawing in the fridge, but had to make an unaided decision after the turkey thawed.  Ten pages of posts on this thread with no response to a question after four days of silence surprised me.  Especially when pork is going to sit in a nitrite solution for 11 days after the turkey is removed.  Maybe this was a trivial question not worth a response.  Anyway,  rgautheir20420 you win.  Thank you for your response.

-Kurt


----------



## pc farmer

Dr K said:


> I thought it would be ok to combine the turkey and the pork loin in the same container, being in a cure. I posted my original question while the turkey was thawing in the fridge, but had to make an unaided decision after the turkey thawed.  Ten pages of posts on this thread with no response to a question after four days of silence surprised me.  Especially when pork is going to sit in a nitrite solution for 11 days after the turkey is removed.  Maybe this was a trivial question not worth a response.  Anyway,  rgautheir20420 you win.  Thank you for your response.
> 
> -Kurt


Send pops a pm.   He will gladly answer.

Maybe nobody knew the answer and didn't want to give you bad info.


----------



## rgautheir20420

Awesome! My bump worked and smarter people came along. Life is about learning new things....right?


----------



## Bearcarver

Dr K said:


> I thought it would be ok to combine the turkey and the pork loin in the same container, being in a cure. I posted my original question while the turkey was thawing in the fridge, but had to make an unaided decision after the turkey thawed.  Ten pages of posts on this thread with no response to a question after four days of silence surprised me.  Especially when pork is going to sit in a nitrite solution for 11 days after the turkey is removed.  Maybe this was a trivial question not worth a response.  Anyway,  rgautheir20420 you win.  Thank you for your response.
> 
> -Kurt


I do Dry curing with TQ, and I don't usually even put more than one piece of anything in my individual bags.

However Like me most people would be guessing at how to answer your question, I would guess it would be OK, but a question like yours shouldn't be answered with a guess.

Soooooo---------Like Adam said, "Send Pops a PM with your question".

Bear


----------



## ak1

Dr K, I don't think you'll have an issue curing different proteins in the same brine as long as you follow the cure times for each individual protein. i.e just because you put turkey & pork in at the same time, doesn't mean they can come out at the same time. The only issue I can see is flavour transfer between the two.


----------



## pops6927

I sincerely apologize for my failure in answering, contracted a flu bug and computer is in the wrong room (ahem).  

Normally, I would not recommend it, but if they were both fresh and under refrigeration, it can be done successfully.  Just make sure you cook to an internal temp of 160° on both as a precaution.  You can also change your brine after you remove the turkey, too, which I would recommend, to finish curing the pork loin.   Thank you so much again for your frustrating time waiting, and feel free to PM me at a moment's notice.


----------



## ak1

Pops6927 said:


> Normally, I would not recommend it


Ok, Why not? 

Not trying to be a pain, but trying to understand the reasons.

Why would it matter if I made 5 gallons of brine and threw in a turkey or two, and a few pork bellies or loins....all are covered. I take the turkey out after a few days, but keep the pork in for another few weeks.


----------



## stovebolt

As Pops said, the pork would need to be cooked to 160° due to cross contamination for safety. Otherwise it would only need to be cooked to 145°. I suppose that would be the biggest concern.

Chuck


----------



## ak1

Ok, I understand, thanks.


----------



## dr k

Dr K said:


> I have an 11lb. turkey I'm going to cure for 3-4 days in 3 gallons of water with 3T cure + salt and sugar.  The turkey is still thawing in the fridge so I'm pre diluting the pink salt in a 1/2 gallon of water.  I'm not sure if that's necessary.  Since my plastic food grade container I use to make beer in is so wide, with dead space to cover the turkey with the wet cure, can I add pork bellies for bacon or pork loin for Canadian bacon with the turkey or do poultry, pork and beef need to cure by themselves.  I would leave the pork in for a total of 14 days.
> 
> -Kurt





Dr K said:


> I didn't hear from anyone on my question about combining different proteins in the same curing pot (3 days ago, last post on page 9), so the turkey and loin for the Canadian bacon are swimming in the same pool.





Dr K said:


> I thought it would be ok to combine the turkey and the pork loin in the same container, being in a cure. I posted my original question while the turkey was thawing in the fridge, but had to make an unaided decision after the turkey thawed.  Ten pages of posts on this thread with no response to a question after four days of silence surprised me.  Especially when pork is going to sit in a nitrite solution for 11 days after the turkey is removed.  Maybe this was a trivial question not worth a response.  Anyway,  rgautheir20420 you win.  Thank you for your response.
> 
> -Kurt


Pops wanted an update after I sent him a PM on combining different proteins in the same curing vessel.  I quoted my posts above in the order I posted them for those that aren't familiar with my original question.  Long story short, cure meats of a specie in it's own vessel to eliminate cross contamination especially if they have different minimum finishing temps (whole turkey 165*F vs. Pork loin 145*F.)  That being said, both meats should be cooked to 165*.  The turkey was cooked to 170*F to make sure the joints had no visible blood and the pork was just under 165*F.  Everything was tasty and the pork wasn't dry as I expected.  This was my first time for curing Turkey and will be cured before smoking from now on based on the results.

Pork and turkey in the same vessel













CAM00143.jpg



__ dr k
__ Oct 31, 2014






Smoked turkey for 4hrs. with apple wood then placed in a clear Reynolds oven bag till 170*F













CAM00145.jpg



__ dr k
__ Oct 31, 2014






Cold smoked pork loin with Pecan pellets in my 12" AMNTS for Canadian bacon, eggs and cheese for 4hrs. before removing cheese and eggs and hot smoking the pork with pecan chunks till done.













CAM00160.jpg



__ dr k
__ Oct 31, 2014






Canadian bacon.













CAM00161.jpg



__ dr k
__ Oct 31, 2014






Happy Halloween!

-Kurt


----------



## Bearcarver

Hi Dr K,

I think I will cure them separately, because I would never want to smoke Pork Loin to 165* IT.

Before the USDA lowered the safe temp of Pork from 160* to 145* IT, I used to smoke my Canadian Bacon to 160* IT, and I found it a little dry. Smoking CB to 145* IT is MUCH better!!!

However thanks for sticking with this to get the answers!!

Bear


----------



## dr k

Bearcarver said:


> Hi Dr K,
> 
> I think I will cure them separately, because I would never want to smoke Pork Loin to 165* IT.
> 
> Before the USDA lowered the safe temp of Pork from 160* to 145* IT, I used to smoke my Canadian Bacon to 160* IT, and I found it a little dry. Smoking CB to 145* IT is MUCH better!!!
> 
> However thanks for sticking with this to get the answers!!
> 
> Bear


I won't combine different proteins in the same curing vessel again.  My other Canadian bacons were cooked to 145*F.  This time I had no choice but to cook to a higher temp for safety measures.  I am surprised that it wasn't dry. 

-Kurt


----------



## mckay

Hi all, I read the thread. I see that there is no percentage cure to meat noted. DO understand its cure to water here?

Can I brine a whole belly using this recipe and have enough #1 as long as I scale to gallons needed to cover?

I've only dry cured and its always to salty for me.

Many thanks

Jeff


----------



## pc farmer

McKay said:


> Hi all, I read the thread. I see that there is no percentage cure to meat noted. DO understand its cure to water here?
> 
> Can I brine a whole belly using this recipe and have enough #1 as long as I scale to gallons needed to cover?
> 
> I've only dry cured and its always to salty for me.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Jeff


Yup.  1 tbsp per gallon.  I do whole bellies with 2 gallon of water, so 2 tbsp of cure#1


----------



## daveomak

McKay said:


> Hi all, I read the thread. I see that there is no percentage cure to meat noted. DO understand its cure to water here?
> Can I brine a whole belly using this recipe and have enough #1 as long as I scale to gallons needed to cover?
> *I've only dry cured and its always to salty for me.*
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Jeff



Jeff, evening....   try weighing the salt....   2% salt and 1% sugar and 0.9 grams/# of cure #1 will give you a start....   
I use pops brining method and weigh stuff.... It makes great bacon....


----------



## mckay

DaveOmak said:


> Jeff, evening.... try weighing the salt.... 2% salt and 1% sugar and 0.9 grams/# of cure #1 will give you a start....
> I use pops brining method and weigh stuff.... It makes great bacon....


Thank you, I made a half gallon batch to test using only pops recipe, no weights but volumes. Of course getting 1/2 of 1/3 cup of salt is not too easy but I got close. Tasted this cure off my finger and its pretty darn good, not too salty by any means. 

I will go back to weighing as I trust that over the goofy volumes we use in the USA. I found this while searching, http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html and its a nice calculator. As I understand I will need to add both meat weight AND water weight to the first box? 

I have a side of bacon thawing in the fridge anxiously awaiting a new Smokin-It #3.


----------



## stovebolt

c farmer said:


> Yup.  1 tsp per gallon.  I do whole bellies with 2 gallon of water, so 2 tsp of cure#1


  Pops recipe is 1 Tablespoon cure #1 per gallon of water.

Chuck


----------



## mckay

stovebolt said:


> Pops recipe is 1 Tablespoon cure #1 per gallon of water.
> 
> Chuck


Good catch


----------



## newsmoker chaz

Thanks Pop great Brine.


----------



## smoker21

POP's is all I ever use


----------



## ccsooner

I was given a whole ham 4 days ago, and feel like I need to get it in a cure ASAP before it starts to sour. I couldn't find curing salt anywhere in town but bought this brown sugar cure from a butcher: http://www.waltonsinc.com/p-2420-brown-sugar-cure.aspx
The plan is to boil a gal of water, add 2 lbs of this cure, inject generously and then add the last pound of cure with what remains and wet cure the ham for a week or so. 
The butcher said he only leaves it in the solution for 24 hours then smokes. Sounds too short of a time from what I've read around here. 
Thoughts?  Am I in the right track?


----------



## dr k

ccsooner said:


> 6.25%
> 
> I was given a whole ham 4 days ago, and feel like I need to get it in a cure ASAP before it starts to sour. I couldn't find curing salt anywhere in town but bought this brown sugar cure from a butcher: http://www.waltonsinc.com/p-2420-brown-sugar-cure.aspx
> The plan is to boil a gal of water, add 2 lbs of this cure, inject generously and then add the last pound of cure with what remains and wet cure the ham for a week or so.
> The butcher said he only leaves it in the solution for 24 hours then smokes. Sounds too short of a time from what I've read around here.
> Thoughts? Am I in the right track?


I have no Idea since it's .75% sodium nitrite instead of the 6.25% you need like the sure cure at the bottom of the page of the link you gave above.  $10 dollars for a 5lb bag of sure cure 6.25% sodium nitrite sounds pretty good.


----------



## daveomak

ccsooner said:


> I was given a whole ham 4 days ago, and feel like I need to get it in a cure ASAP before it starts to sour. I couldn't find curing salt anywhere in town but bought this brown sugar cure from a butcher: http://www.waltonsinc.com/p-2420-brown-sugar-cure.aspx
> The plan is to boil a gal of water, add 2 lbs of this cure, inject generously and then add the last pound of cure with what remains and wet cure the ham for a week or so.
> The butcher said he only leaves it in the solution for 24 hours then smokes. Sounds too short of a time from what I've read around here.
> Thoughts?  Am I in the right track?



Do not add the curing mix to boiling water.....   add it to water at less than 100 F to be safe....  I have heard cure starts to break down at temps around 130 deg. F....  

Did you see the directions for making a brine solution ???   If not, I would use the directions below.....   1# per gallon and pump at 15% green weight of the meat.....  This  is the same stuff...  http://www.spokanespice.com/products.php?showall=1&page=1&secid=69&search=

 Seasoning and Spices - Brines & Cures - MAPLE SUGAR CURE 
SKU:  200H-GB-0053  
Price:  $4.68  
Qty:     
Description:  A pre-mixed blend of salt, maple and cane sugars, dextrose and sodium nitrite. 
_Each pound will make one gallon of sugar cure solution for a 15% pump by green weight.  
_ 

For a dry rub......
2#'s = 908 grams x 0.0075 (0.75%).....  6.81 gm. nitrite
100#'s x 454 = 45,400 gm. meat...   6.81 / 45,400 = .000150 or 150 Ppm nitrite....   perfect for a dry rub.....   
For the Brine Mixture.... follow directions....


----------



## baydoe

Good afternoon everyone... I have a few quick questions about this brine and pork bellies for bacon. So after the belly has been in the cure and ready to come out, please correct me if i'm wrong, your suppose to rinse the belly off and pat it dry and leave in the fridge for a day?

I read that pops brings the IT of his bacon to about 135- 146... with his smoker temp @225-250... do you start the smoker off at 225, or do you cold smoke for awhile then crank it up to 225? 

The bellies I bought were on sale 2.49 per lb. but i was not ready to brine them yet.. I have them in the freezer, can i start the brining process with the bellies frozen, or do i need to have them unthawed  first? 

What are some other thinks that you guys have added to the brine while playing with taste that you have enjoyed? 

are you suppose to season the bacon with any kind of rub after it is done in the brine and b4 it goes in the smoker, or just soak and smoke? thanks for all of your help!


----------



## dirtsailor2003

baydoe said:


> Good afternoon everyone... I have a few quick questions about this brine and pork bellies for bacon. So after the belly has been in the cure and ready to come out, please correct me if i'm wrong, your suppose to rinse the belly off and pat it dry and leave in the fridge for a day?
> 
> I read that pops brings the IT of his bacon to about 135- 146... with his smoker temp @225-250... do you start the smoker off at 225, or do you cold smoke for awhile then crank it up to 225?
> 
> The bellies I bought were on sale 2.49 per lb. but i was not ready to brine them yet.. I have them in the freezer, can i start the brining process with the bellies frozen, or do i need to have them unthawed  first?
> 
> What are some other thinks that you guys have added to the brine while playing with taste that you have enjoyed?
> 
> are you suppose to season the bacon with any kind of rub after it is done in the brine and b4 it goes in the smoker, or just soak and smoke? thanks for all of your help!


Well once the meat is cured you can cold smoke it with no heat at all. You can hot smoke it running the smoker at one temp. Or you can do the bump up process like used when smoking sausage. That process you start low 120-130 for an hour and then increase the temp 10 degrees every hour until you get the smoker up high enough to get to your meat to your desired IT. You need to have the smoker be around 25° higher than your target IT.

I am a cold smoker for bacon. I hit mine with smoke for 6-8 hours, no heat, rest overnight in the fridge. I repeat this process until I get the color I want. I have gone as much as 24 hours total smoke. I then let it rest 3-4 days in the fridge and then vac pack and freeze. This needs to be cooked prior to being eaten.

It is best to thaw the bellies first.

I have tried adding flavors to the brine, and have found that it is better to add the flavoring after pulling from the brine. Make sure and air dry the meat so it will form a pellicle. You can speed this up with a fan, or if in a big hurry hit with a hair dryer on low.

You can season it if you like. I like to add pepper and garlic powder, sometimes chipotle. Prior to soaking it slice a piece off and fry it to test how salty it is. We use 1/3 cup -1/2 cup of salt instead of the full amount called for when making Pop's brine and have found that is perfect for us. You can adjust the salt amount but do not adjust the amount of cure.

Good luck with your smoke and please post some photos!


----------



## baydoe

dirtsailor2003 said:


> I have tried adding flavors to the brine, and have found that it is better to add the flavoring after pulling from the brine. Make sure and air dry the meat so it will form a pellicle. You can speed this up with a fan, or if in a big hurry hit with a hair dryer on low.
> 
> You can season it if you like. I like to add pepper and garlic powder, sometimes chipotle. Prior to soaking it slice a piece off and fry it to test how salty it is. We use 1/3 cup -1/2 cup of salt instead of the full amount called for when making Pop's brine and have found that is perfect for us. You can adjust the salt amount but do not adjust the amount of cure.
> 
> Good luck with your smoke and please post some photos!


 so once your pulls your from the brine do you rinse it off, or just start the air dry process?


----------



## Bearcarver

baydoe said:


> Good afternoon everyone... I have a few quick questions about this brine and pork bellies for bacon. So after the belly has been in the cure and ready to come out, please correct me if i'm wrong, your suppose to rinse the belly off and pat it dry and leave in the fridge for a day?
> 
> I read that pops brings the IT of his bacon to about 135- 146... with his smoker temp @225-250... do you start the smoker off at 225, or do you cold smoke for awhile then crank it up to 225?
> 
> The bellies I bought were on sale 2.49 per lb. but i was not ready to brine them yet.. I have them in the freezer, can i start the brining process with the bellies frozen, or do i need to have them unthawed  first?
> 
> What are some other thinks that you guys have added to the brine while playing with taste that you have enjoyed?
> 
> are you suppose to season the bacon with any kind of rub after it is done in the brine and b4 it goes in the smoker, or just soak and smoke? thanks for all of your help!


I don't think Pops brings his Bellies to 135-146.

A lot of people cold smoke their Bacon, which is good, but it takes twice as long to get good color & flavor than by adding a little heat.

I like to smoke mine at temps between 100* and 130*, until I get good color, which is about 10 to 12 hours with an AMNPS.

Don't use temps above 140* on Belly Bacon, or you will render some of the fat.

Bear


----------



## pc farmer

baydoe said:


> so once your pulls your from the brine do you rinse it off, or just start the air dry process?


ALWAYS rinse the cure off when done curing.   Then dry ( I use paper towels ) the let it air dry.


----------



## dirtsailor2003

baydoe said:


> so once your pulls your from the brine do you rinse it off, or just start the air dry process?



Yes rinse, then dry. You can season prior to drying, or after. I season after drying once the pellicle has formed and right before I smoke. 

A member here, Disco was looking for some super maple flavor and I believe his last batch turned out good. If you're interested in maple flavor search his threads.


----------



## baydoe

Pops6927 said:


> I hot smoke all my bacons to  minimum 135°, partially cooked, (enough to kill trich) to 146°, fully cooked.  I always give some to my sons and I don't want to worry that they'd eat it uncooked and die or get sick.






Bearcarver said:


> I don't think Pops brings his Bellies to 135-146.
> A lot of people cold smoke their Bacon, which is good, but it takes twice as long to get good color & flavor than by adding a little heat.
> I like to smoke mine at temps between 100* and 130*, until I get good color, which is about 10 to 12 hours with an AMNPS.
> 
> Don't use temps above 140* on Belly Bacon, or you will render some of the fat.
> 
> Bear
> [/quote
> 
> 
> This is what I read.


----------



## baydoe

c farmer said:


> ALWAYS rinse the cure off when done curing.   Then dry ( I use paper towels ) the let it air dry.






dirtsailor2003 said:


> Yes rinse, then dry. You can season prior to drying, or after. I season after drying once the pellicle has formed and right before I smoke.
> 
> A member here, Disco was looking for some super maple flavor and I believe his last batch turned out good. If you're interested in maple flavor search his threads.



Thanks guys!!


----------



## baydoe

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Yes rinse, then dry. You can season prior to drying, or after. I season after drying once the pellicle has formed and right before I smoke.
> 
> A member here, Disco was looking for some super maple flavor and I believe his last batch turned out good. If you're interested in maple flavor search his threads.






c farmer said:


> ALWAYS rinse the cure off when done curing.   Then dry ( I use paper towels ) the let it air dry.




Thanks guys.


----------



## baydoe

c farmer said:


> ALWAYS rinse the cure off when done curing.   Then dry ( I use paper towels ) the let it air dry.






dirtsailor2003 said:


> Yes rinse, then dry. You can season prior to drying, or after. I season after drying once the pellicle has formed and right before I smoke.
> 
> A member here, Disco was looking for some super maple flavor and I believe his last batch turned out good. If you're interested in maple flavor search his threads.



Thanks!


----------



## Bearcarver

> Bearcarver said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Pops brings his Bellies to 135-146.
> A lot of people cold smoke their Bacon, which is good, but it takes twice as long to get good color & flavor than by adding a little heat.
> I like to smoke mine at temps between 100* and 130*, until I get good color, which is about 10 to 12 hours with an AMNPS.
> 
> Don't use temps above 140* on Belly Bacon, or you will render some of the fat.
> 
> Bear
> [/quote
> 
> 
> This is what I read.
Click to expand...

What you read was probably how Pops smokes Canadian Bacon & Buckboard Bacon, because I never saw him take a Belly to 135*-146*. I could be wrong, but I can't remember him taking a Belly to those temps. Do you remember where you read this?

Bear


----------



## baydoe

Bearcarver said:


> What you read was probably how Pops smokes Canadian Bacon & Buckboard Bacon, because I never saw him take a Belly to 135*-146*. I could be wrong, but I can't remember him taking a Belly to those temps. Do you remember where you read this?
> 
> Bear


page 4 of this thread


----------



## Bearcarver

baydoe said:


> page 4 of this thread


Holy [email protected]#$%^&

I stand corrected. I had no idea!!

Thanks for enlightening me.

Bear


----------



## baydoe

Bearcarver said:


> Holy [email protected]#$%^&
> 
> I stand corrected. I had no idea!!
> 
> Thanks for enlightening me.
> 
> Bear


haha.. this will be my first shot at bacon.. so i'm just trying to figure everything out.. i have seen a lot of people talk about the 140 degree mark rendering fat like you were talking about, then i saw that with pops. i plan on cooking my bacon.. so i don't need it pre cooked in a smoker.. so u recommend around 100*?


----------



## Bearcarver

baydoe said:


> haha.. this will be my first shot at bacon.. so i'm just trying to figure everything out.. i have seen a lot of people talk about the 140 degree mark rendering fat like you were talking about, then i saw that with pops. i plan on cooking my bacon.. so i don't need it pre cooked in a smoker.. so u recommend around 100*?


I don't like to step on anything Pops posts, because I look to him for the how-to of so many things.

However, since you asked, below is my Best Bacon Ever "Step by Step". It contains everything, including my smoking time & temps.

*Bacon (Extra Smoky)*

Bear


----------



## radioguy

I just finished my first belly bacon using Pop's brine. Now I'm at the point of adjusting ingredients to suit tastes.  That first batch was a bit salty and too sweet.  I've  adjusted the salt down from 3/4c to 1/2c for this batch now curing.  I've  started to weigh ingredients to get more consistent results.  

What do you Bacon experts recommend about cutting the sweetness? Reduce the white sugar only? Or both white and brown?  I'm making  belly bacon for Christmas gifts and want to get it dialed in.  It's a bit cumbersome making adjustments and then having to wait 2 weeks to taste the results.  Small operation here...first batch was 4.5lbs, batch now curing is 6.5 lbs.  Good thing is that I get to eat my mistakes.  

BTW my first batch I soaked in water 2 hours, cause the "test fry" was too salty.  Changing water out every 1/2hour.  Cold smoked with maple / hickory mix for 16 hours...first full tray AMNPS, just had to see how long it would burn. Rested in refer for a day, then cold smoke another 9 hours, until I liked the color.  Kept temps between 80~100 degrees.

Tastes GREAT....just a bit too sweet.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

RG 

*One piece from My First Batch....it did happen !!*












Toms First BACON 1111141523a.jpg



__ radioguy
__ Nov 11, 2014


----------



## dave from mesa

Looks real nice.

Can't wait for the temps to go down here to try making bacon.


----------



## pc farmer

I cut the white and brown sugar.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/pops6927s-curing-brines-regular-and-lo-salt


----------



## dr k

RadioGuy said:


> I just finished my first belly bacon using Pop's brine. Now I'm at the point of adjusting ingredients to suit tastes. That first batch was a bit salty and too sweet. I've adjusted the salt down from 3/4c to 1/2c for this batch now curing. I've started to weigh ingredients to get more consistent results.
> 
> What do you Bacon experts recommend about cutting the sweetness? Reduce the white sugar only? Or both white and brown? I'm making belly bacon for Christmas gifts and want to get it dialed in. It's a bit cumbersome making adjustments and then having to wait 2 weeks to taste the results. Small operation here...first batch was 4.5lbs, batch now curing is 6.5 lbs. Good thing is that I get to eat my mistakes.
> 
> BTW my first batch I soaked in water 2 hours, cause the "test fry" was too salty. Changing water out every 1/2hour. Cold smoked with maple / hickory mix for 16 hours...first full tray AMNPS, just had to see how long it would burn. Rested in refer for a day, then cold smoke another 9 hours, until I liked the color. Kept temps between 80~100 degrees.
> 
> Tastes GREAT....just a bit too sweet.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
> 
> RG
> 
> *One piece from My First Batch....it did happen !!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toms First BACON 1111141523a.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ radioguy
> __ Nov 11, 2014


I started at 1/2c. granulated sugar and 1/2c. brown sugar and 1/2c. sea salt per gallon of water.  A little sweet and salty for me for Canadian Bacon.  Last cure was 1/3c, granulated sugar and 1/3c. brown sugar and 1/3c. sea salt per gallon of water.  I used this for Canadian bacon and a turkey.  Salt seemed right on at 1/3c. but I'm going to try 1/4c. granulated sugar and 1/4c. brown sugar next time.

-Kurt


----------



## baydoe

DaveOmak said:


> It's best to not make up curing solutions ahead of time.... It can get ropy and degrade.... It only takes 15 minutes to make up a batch... Why take a chance on having it go bad.....
> 
> As a side note...... when making up curing/brine solutions..... DO NOT ADD THE CURE TO WARM OR HOT WATER...... wait for it to cool....


What does warm H20 do to the cure, i mixed up a batch of pops cure last night.. the first gallon was cold water, but it didn't seem to do a good job of dissolving all of the salt and sugar. I didn't have enough tot cover all of my belly bacon so i mixed up another batch using warm tap water to help the salt and sugar dissolve. do u think i will be alright?


----------



## daveomak

Somewhere I read that cure #1, nitrite, starts to break down or degrade at about 130 ish deg. F when the cured meat is heated....   

So, I am assuming that breakdown would take place when making curing brines.....    I could be wrong...  Have been before....    But I like to lean to the "Safe Side" of unknown stuff...


----------



## baydoe

DaveOmak said:


> Somewhere I read that cure #1, nitrite, starts to break down or degrade at about 130 ish deg. F when the cured meat is heated....
> 
> So, I am assuming that breakdown would take place when making curing brines..... I could be wrong... Have been before.... But I like to lean to the "Safe Side" of unknown stuff...


ok, that makes me feel better.. my "warm" water would have been just over room temp.


----------



## stovebolt

RadioGuy said:


> I just finished my first belly bacon using Pop's brine. Now I'm at the point of adjusting ingredients to suit tastes. That first batch was a bit salty and too sweet. I've adjusted the salt down from 3/4c to 1/2c for this batch now curing. I've started to weigh ingredients to get more consistent results.
> 
> What do you Bacon experts recommend about cutting the sweetness? Reduce the white sugar only? Or both white and brown? I'm making belly bacon for Christmas gifts and want to get it dialed in. It's a bit cumbersome making adjustments and then having to wait 2 weeks to taste the results. Small operation here...first batch was 4.5lbs, batch now curing is 6.5 lbs. Good thing is that I get to eat my mistakes.
> 
> BTW my first batch I soaked in water 2 hours, cause the "test fry" was too salty. Changing water out every 1/2hour. Cold smoked with maple / hickory mix for 16 hours...first full tray AMNPS, just had to see how long it would burn. Rested in refer for a day, then cold smoke another 9 hours, until I liked the color. Kept temps between 80~100 degrees.
> 
> Tastes GREAT....just a bit too sweet.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
> 
> RG


  The first BBB I made seemed too sweet to me, but after resting a couple of days it mellowed some.

Chuck


----------



## baydoe

So I am currently doing my first belly bacon. I have had it in Pops brine for 7 days tonight. My question is, with thanksgiving right around the corner i may not be able to get to it until after. that would put me 17 or 18 days in the brine. Now i know you can leave it in safe for up to 45 days, my question is for thou's of you who have done sever batches in pops brine. if you leave it in longer have you noticed and increase in saltiness? or does it not seem to change much if you leave it in for an extended period of time? thanks! 

-Baydoe


----------



## foamheart

You'll be Ok, you can leave it in there for 3+ weeks. I know from experience. But make sure and do a test fry.

On hams I always exceed Pop time requirements , why? Because I can. I hate having a due date to worry about and after the initial 3 or 4 sides, I had bacon, Iwasn't insuch a hurry. The thing is, I just love the smokers pecan smell. I would pipe that smoker exhaust into the houses A/C vent. system if I could.


----------



## baydoe

Foamheart said:


> You'll be Ok, you can leave it in there for 3+ weeks. I know from experience. But make sure and do a test fry.
> 
> On hams I always exceed Pop time requirements , why? Because I can. I hate having a due date to worry about and after the initial 3 or 4 sides, I had bacon, Iwasn't insuch a hurry. The thing is, I just love the smokers pecan smell. I would pipe that smoker exhaust into the houses A/C vent. system if I could.


i guess my question is, with pops brine, does the meat hit a certain level of salt that can diffuse into the meat around that 12-14 day mark that is recommended.. or will you meat continue to get saltier the longer you leave it in the brine?


----------



## clayt upnorth

*Some one smarter than me will reply but from what I have experienced with Pop's as long as you rinse well and do a fry test before smoking all should be fine. If it is to salty on the fry test it will need to be soaked more in cold water and rinsed maybe even overnight or longer. If you followed the instructions my money says it will be just fine. The great thing about this forum is if you follow the directions others have laid out it's a pretty good bet you are going to make great products.*

*I just put 50 lbs. of pork butts in Pop's and I plan on getting it in the smoker the day after Thanksgiving or so. I will rinse and do the fry test and go from there. *


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

baydoe said:


> i guess my question is, with pops brine, does the meat hit a certain level of salt that can diffuse into the meat around that 12-14 day mark that is recommended.. or will you meat continue to get saltier the longer you leave it in the brine?


It will reach equilibrium and then basically stop.  I have not found that 3-4 weeks tastes any different than 2 weeks.


----------



## bubba watson

came across a deal on a pork picnic last month at a steal...so I used this cure to make the boss lady the ham she asked me to do.. Man, it came out awesome! Then I used the ham bone and meat scraps to do some awesome pinto beans last week! Thanks Pops for the recipe!!!!! Will surely be in my recipe book from now on!


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

Most of us on this website will be ever indebted to POP'S for what he has shared.  He sort of started a movement of wet curing that was very easy.


----------



## inkjunkie

I apologize for not reading the 243 previous post so I hope this has not been asked. Printed out the recipe and gave it to the Boss.....first thing she said is which brown sugar is needed, light or dark? I will now sulk back to my corner and hide....


----------



## dirtsailor2003

inkjunkie said:


> I apologize for not reading the 243 previous post so I hope this has not been asked. Printed out the recipe and gave it to the Boss.....first thing she said is which brown sugar is needed, light or dark? I will now sulk back to my corner and hide....



Either will work.


----------



## inkjunkie

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Either will work.


Thank You


----------



## anthony gervais

hey pops i sent you a pm


----------



## kickingwing

Pops, you stated in another post that you hot smoke all of your bacon. Can you share at what temp please?


----------



## susieqz

be nice to hear what temp you use for back bacon too, please.

also, is there any taste or texture difference from different concentrations of cure?

can you taste the difference between 1 n 3 tablespoons?


----------



## mike johnson

image.jpg



__ mike johnson
__ Feb 28, 2015






18 lbs. of pork for some Buckboard Bacon. This is my first attempt a using the wet cure method. More pics to come in just over 10 days.


----------



## gary s

Be waiting and watching.   You been doing OK ?

Gary


----------



## mike johnson

Yes. Thanks for asking. Went right back to work after getting back and haven't had too much free time. Overtime is prettymuch done so I can get back to smokin more :)


----------



## gary s

Glad to see you back around here

Gary


----------



## smoke-ee

I previously posted this question in the "Pork Section" of the forum-Moved it here since the question pertains to Pops Wet Cure....hopefully someone will chime in...

After reading up here and other smoker forums I decided to join this forum, (1st post here).  I found Pops6927's experience and insight especially insightful, him being raised around meats and smoking to be the most reliable source for me since I wanted tried and tested, authentic curing and smoking.

To the point.

*I'm wet curing a pork butt and belly as we speak. Plan on smoking.*

I'm using  wet cure brine (#1 powder) Pops6927's way, injected, and stuck an 8 lb. butt in a pail. And a 5 lb. belly, (not injected) in another pail. My intention _*is (was)*_  to follow Pops method of 14 days and then into the smoker. 

I put everything into the brine on the _*6th (March),*_ figuring I'd smoke on the _*20th (14 days in brine).*_ The problem is that I forgot I'm going out of town the weekend of the 20th and I'll be back the _*22nd (16 days brine).*_

According to Pops over curing is not a problem. But I'm not clear about *under curing.*

*Can anyone elaborate for me on the effect of smoking the butt and belly earlier than 14 days, like 10 days? I'm thinking it is not a problem at 10 days since I injected the butt.*

The Question:

*Is it smokable at 10 days or less, (will I be giving up flavor-safety), or should I just leave everything in the brine until I get back, (16 Days)?*

*Below is my plan.*

*Smoke BELLY* to 145* IT and slice it thin for *Bacon.*

*Smoke BUTT* to 200*--205* IT and pull it like *Pulled Pork*

*Smoke BUTT*, between 145* and 200* and slice it for *Sliced Butt Ham*.

Thanks Up Front for any insight. And I promise to post some pics of the smoke.


----------



## bladebuilder

I would leave it for the extra time in the brine. I have two hams that have been injected and now soaking in pops brine. I am aiming for 28 days. Now I know the ham is larger, so more time. If you pull it early, the is a chance the cure hasn't penetrated as deeply or as thoroughly as it needs to. Risk is areas of under cured, or not yet cured bits of meat. Others with more experience and knowledge should be along to explain better.


----------



## foamheart

Smokey,

I don't know I'd take a belly to 145. Thats a bit high and you will see a bit of rendering. You'll also have carry over with higher smoking temps also.

With a well watched low temp smoker I am most happy when I stay below 130 degrees on my cure smokes. You might consider a double smoke. Its would put your hams over the top and allow you the opportunity to get some low temp smoke on them the first go around.

Then the second smoke you could slowly bring them up to cooking temp without the bacon's involvement. AND the hams with a double smoke are totally awesome and still allow the ability to do some fancy cooking like maybe a nice fruit glaze (peach or satsuma being my favorites). My sister who doesn't like Dr.Pepper uses it as a foiling sauce for lack of a better term, and its a taste bud pleaser!


----------



## pops6927

KickingWing said:


> Pops, you stated in another post that you hot smoke all of your bacon. Can you share at what temp please?


I fully cook  to 145° - I know my boys will 'nibble' without additional frying, lol!


susieqz said:


> be nice to hear what temp you use for back bacon too, please.
> 
> also, is there any taste or texture difference from different concentrations of cure?
> 
> can you taste the difference between 1 n 3 tablespoons?


again, 145°.  I can taste a difference myself, it is saltier and has a more chemical taste.


Smoke-ee said:


> I previously posted this question in the "Pork Section" of the forum-Moved it here since the question pertains to Pops Wet Cure....hopefully someone will chime in...
> 
> After reading up here and other smoker forums I decided to join this forum, (1st post here).  I found Pops6927's experience and insight especially insightful, him being raised around meats and smoking to be the most reliable source for me since I wanted tried and tested, authentic curing and smoking.
> 
> To the point.
> 
> *I'm wet curing a pork butt and belly as we speak. Plan on smoking.*
> 
> I'm using  wet cure brine (#1 powder) Pops6927's way, injected, and stuck an 8 lb. butt in a pail. And a 5 lb. belly, (not injected) in another pail. My intention _*is (was)*_  to follow Pops method of 14 days and then into the smoker.
> 
> I put everything into the brine on the _*6th (March),*_ figuring I'd smoke on the _*20th (14 days in brine).*_ The problem is that I forgot I'm going out of town the weekend of the 20th and I'll be back the _*22nd (16 days brine).*_
> 
> According to Pops over curing is not a problem. But I'm not clear about *under curing.*
> 
> *Can anyone elaborate for me on the effect of smoking the butt and belly earlier than 14 days, like 10 days? I'm thinking it is not a problem at 10 days since I injected the butt.*
> 
> The Question:
> 
> *Is it smokable at 10 days or less, (will I be giving up flavor-safety), or should I just leave everything in the brine until I get back, (16 Days)?*
> 
> *Below is my plan.*
> 
> *Smoke BELLY* to 145* IT and slice it thin for *Bacon.*
> 
> *Smoke BUTT* to 200*--205* IT and pull it like *Pulled Pork*
> 
> *Smoke BUTT*, between 145* and 200* and slice it for *Sliced Butt Ham*.
> 
> Thanks Up Front for any insight. And I promise to post some pics of the smoke.


Sounds great to me!


Foamheart said:


> Smokey,
> 
> I don't know I'd take a belly to 145. Thats a bit high and you will see a bit of rendering. You'll also have carry over with higher smoking temps also.
> 
> With a well watched low temp smoker I am most happy when I stay below 130 degrees on my cure smokes. You might consider a double smoke. Its would put your hams over the top and allow you the opportunity to get some low temp smoke on them the first go around.
> 
> Then the second smoke you could slowly bring them up to cooking temp without the bacon's involvement. AND the hams with a double smoke are totally awesome and still allow the ability to do some fancy cooking like maybe a nice fruit glaze (peach or satsuma being my favorites). My sister who doesn't like Dr.Pepper uses it as a foiling sauce for lack of a better term, and its a taste bud pleaser!


Definitely your choice; I err on the side of caution as i am cooking for others than me, and cannot trust they will exercise the same cautions that I do (they love to nibble...). lol!

-  Pops


----------



## smoke-ee

Bladebuilder said:


> I would leave it for the extra time in the brine. I have two hams that have been injected and now soaking in pops brine. I am aiming for 28 days. Now I know the ham is larger, so more time. If you pull it early, the is a chance the cure hasn't penetrated as deeply or as thoroughly as it needs to. Risk is areas of under cured, or not yet cured bits of meat. Others with more experience and knowledge should be along to explain better.


I'll leave it in the brine till I return on Day 16 thanks.


Pops6927 said:


> I fully cook  to 145° - I know my boys will 'nibble' without additional frying, lol!
> 
> again, 145°.  I can taste a difference myself, it is saltier and has a more chemical taste.
> 
> Sounds great to me!
> 
> Definitely your choice; I err on the side of caution as i am cooking for others than me, and cannot trust they will exercise the same cautions that I do (they love to nibble...). lol!
> 
> -  Pops


Thanks Pops

These IT look ok?

*Smoke BELLY* to 145* IT and slice it thin for *Bacon.*

*Smoke BUTT* to 200*--205* IT and pull it like *Pulled Pork*

*Smoke BUTT*, between 145* and 200* and slice it for *Sliced Butt Ham*.


Foamheart said:


> Smokey,
> 
> I don't know I'd take a belly to 145. Thats a bit high and you will see a bit of rendering. You'll also have carry over with higher smoking temps also.
> 
> With a well watched low temp smoker I am most happy when I stay below 130 degrees on my cure smokes. You might consider a double smoke. Its would put your hams over the top and allow you the opportunity to get some low temp smoke on them the first go around.
> 
> Then the second smoke you could slowly bring them up to cooking temp without the bacon's involvement. AND the hams with a double smoke are totally awesome and still allow the ability to do some fancy cooking like maybe a nice fruit glaze (peach or satsuma being my favorites). My sister who doesn't like Dr.Pepper uses it as a foiling sauce for lack of a better term, and its a taste bud pleaser!


Thanks. Since I plan on sharing with my neighbors I'll probably want to get the bacon to 145.....I'm fearful someone's going to get ill, but I followed the Wet Brine recipe to the T. I'm wondering though because you brought up a good idea about double smoking....my intention was to do exactly that, it all goes in at once to 145 Bacon and Butt when Bacons done at 145 it goes out and I raise the heat. As far as double smoking a 10 lb butt @ 2 hours a Lb is about 20 hours. Do you do a 12 hour smoke bring it in the house and the next day finish it 8 hours or so?


----------



## susieqz

thanks, pops.


----------



## foamheart

Smoke-ee said:


> I'll leave it in the brine till I return on Day 16 thanks.
> 
> Thanks Pops
> 
> These IT look ok?
> 
> *Smoke BELLY* to 145* IT and slice it thin for *Bacon.*
> 
> *Smoke BUTT* to 200*--205* IT and pull it like *Pulled Pork*
> 
> *Smoke BUTT*, between 145* and 200* and slice it for *Sliced Butt Ham*.
> 
> Thanks. Since I plan on sharing with my neighbors I'll probably want to get the bacon to 145.....I'm fearful someone's going to get ill, but I followed the Wet Brine recipe to the T. I'm wondering though because you brought up a good idea about double smoking....my intention was to do exactly that, it all goes in at once to 145 Bacon and Butt when Bacons done at 145 it goes out and I raise the heat. As far as double smoking a 10 lb butt @ 2 hours a Lb is about 20 hours. Do you do a 12 hour smoke bring it in the house and the next day finish it 8 hours or so?


Since its cured, it can handle an inital 4 to 6 hour low and slow smoke. The back in the reefer. The ham will afterwards still be raw but have a good smokie coating. Then the next day you can take it up while smoking to your desired cooked temp while applying more smoke doing it. Bearcarver is a master of the technique.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/141903/double-smoked-hams-times-4-step-by-step

Since I can't see where you live I can't make any exact suggestions of type but with all that smokie goodness it can easily stand a glaze.  Maybe a maple peach or a kumquat bourbon, what ever is locally available is always best to strat with because peoples taste buds are already liking those tastes. These are all just some ideas. Check out the Bear's ideas too.

I will always defer to Pops on nearly any part of what he recommends on the boards, I don't know about his gumbo or sweet tater pie though. Its always better to be safe with food and leave no mistakes which can to be made. I just like the texture better with raw bacon. It may also be why mine burns so darn bad.

One thing I do different than Mr Bear's I score or criss-cross the skin and fat instead of removing it, I like that golden nector basting it while also affording a great place for the glaze hold on to. My mouth is watering now.


----------



## smoke-ee

Did I skip something?

The Belly and a Butt have been in brine since March 6th.

I swished them around a bit today and while swishing the Belly I noticed I did not remove the skin.

Was I supposed to remove the skin prior to brining? If so what can I do at this point.......?


Foamheart said:


> Since its cured, it can handle an inital 4 to 6 hour low and slow smoke. The back in the reefer. The ham will afterwards still be raw but have a good smokie coating. Then the next day you can take it up while smoking to your desired cooked temp while applying more smoke doing it. Bearcarver is a master of the technique.
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/141903/double-smoked-hams-times-4-step-by-step
> 
> Since I can't see where you live I can't make any exact suggestions of type but with all that smokie goodness it can easily stand a glaze.  Maybe a maple peach or a kumquat bourbon, what ever is locally available is always best to strat with because peoples taste buds are already liking those tastes. These are all just some ideas. Check out the Bear's ideas too.
> 
> I will always defer to Pops on nearly any part of what he recommends on the boards, I don't know about his gumbo or sweet tater pie though. Its always better to be safe with food and leave no mistakes which can to be made. I just like the texture better with raw bacon. It may also be why mine burns so darn bad.
> 
> One thing I do different than Mr Bear's I score or criss-cross the skin and fat instead of removing it, I like that golden nector basting it while also affording a great place for the glaze hold on to. My mouth is watering now.


That's a good idea. I'm thinking I can smoke right through, by putting the belly and butt in till belly is 145*, about 4-6 hours,  Then raise the heat and continue the butt another 4 hours or so. Put it in the fridge and next day another 10 hours or so...next time I may reconsider the 10 lb but because of the smoking time though. I'm sure it will be worth every hour of somoking.


----------



## Bearcarver

Foamheart said:


> One thing I do different than Mr Bear's I score or criss-cross the skin and fat instead of removing it, I like that golden nector basting it while also affording a great place for the glaze hold on to. My mouth is watering now.


If you're talking about my Double Smoked Hams, you should look closer:

I put the trimmed extra fat in a pan with holes in it, above the Hams, so the fat can drip down & baste the meat instead of the fat basting the fat.

And since I removed the fat, the glaze can hold onto the Ham Meat, instead of the Ham fat.

Bear


----------



## pilch

Good on ya Pops, well done I'm just about ready to do my first bacon.

Cheers.


----------



## pilch

And a wonderful job it does.


----------



## pilch

Pilch said:


> And a wonderful job it does.


That's Bears double smoked , glazed ham.


----------



## roller

Anyone wanting to Brine should read every word of this Thread...And anything else that Pops posts..


----------



## Bearcarver

Roller said:


> Anyone wanting to Brine should read every word of this Thread...And anything else that Pops posts..










Absolutely!!

Bear


----------



## gary s

Sounds like Good advice to me

Gary


----------



## foamheart

Who is this Pop's you speak of?

<Chuckles>


----------



## venture

Never saw that guy Pops in person?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Sure would like to shake his hand and thank him though!

Good luck and good smoking.


----------



## daveomak

He's some fictional character "Texan" from New York.....   He just have made Salsa too....


----------



## gary s

I Know that Guy !!!

Gary


----------



## dougelian

I have a question. About 30 years ago  had a job for a couple of summers in a meat packing plant. As a summer student, I was relief for everyone's summer holidays. I spent 2 weeks at many different jobs, one of which was the bacon press. We would take the bacon off the hangers, and put them in a hydraulic press to square them up to make it easier for the slicer, and to make the slices more uniform. Now as I recall, they would pump the belly's, hang them, let them drip, maybe overnight, and then into the smoker. Sure never brined them for anything close to 2 weeks. Did they use a different cure that required less time, or more of it, or was the pressure pump with the grid of needles enough to get an even brine?

(More packing plant stories)

I worked on the ham boning line where a dozen guys would each cut off one part of the ham, or a vein. I could see all them leaving a particular ham untouched for me, the new guy, I just let it pass me by as well (I may have been new, but I wasn't stupid), and they all voiced their disappointment, the ham had a cyst, that when i cut into it would have exploded green pus all over me, nice guys. The foreman would watch the line, and if we weren't sweating to keep ahead, he would turn up the belt speed. Sure learned to put an edge on a knife quick there, with a dull knife you just get further and further behind. That square sandwich ham was just gross, we would de-bone the pork, soak it in a vat with cure, then pump the slimy meat into molds, and steam it.

And the hot dogs, haven't eaten one in 30 years, can't even be in the house when they are cooking, it's not what is in them, although it used to be a lot of blood, both fresh and frozen plasma, boxes of mechanically deboned chicken, that frequently had feathers, (I think they just ground up the whole chicken). It was the smell of that brown guck, (that you couldn't wash off) before it turned red in the smokers, I can still smell that when they are cooking...

I spent a month pulling pancreas, at the end of the line, what was left of the guts would fall on my table, (a couple of times bristling with worms), I would sort through it (not the wormy ones, just tipped them into the chute), find the pancreas and pull it off, then push the rest of the guts into a chute down to be loaded onto trailers to the rendering plant. I could probably still do it, in the dark even. They told me they sold the pancreas to be processed into insulin for some outrageous amount per pound. Insulin is now synthetic, no pork pancreas pullers anymore.

But I digress, just wondered about the brine time out of curiosity.

Doug


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## daveomak

You are correct....  when needle injecting meats, like bacon, the injection points are so close the additional resting in a cure/brine is not needed nor is it recommended.....   The correct amount of cure has been injected....   they verify that with weight increase per pound...   usually 10%...   some manufacturers adjust stuff for a 8%.....   When I worked at Hempler's, if I remember they had one product where more than 5% was not allowed or they had to call it enhanced....  They specifically avoided that in some products.....


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## vikingboy6956

So I have a couple bellies in a batch of Pop's brine right now.  I was originally planning on smoking them this Sunday, but some things have come up and I think I'm going to have to do them tonight.

Will 8 days in the brine be long enough??  I measured the thickest part at 1.75" before I put them in.  I'll be doing a tray's worth of cold smoke from the AMPS.


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## Bearcarver

vikingboy6956 said:


> So I have a couple bellies in a batch of Pop's brine right now.  I was originally planning on smoking them this Sunday, but some things have come up and I think I'm going to have to do them tonight.
> 
> Will 8 days in the brine be long enough??  I measured the thickest part at 1.75" before I put them in.  I'll be doing a tray's worth of cold smoke from the AMPS.


That would be long enough if Dry cured with TQ, but Might not be long enough in a wet cure of Pops' mixture.

I'm not that well versed on it, but I think his is a weaker cure designed for a longer curing time.

Better make sure you get input from somebody who knows more about Pops' method.

Bear


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## dr k

vikingboy6956 said:


> So I have a couple bellies in a batch of Pop's brine right now.  I was originally planning on smoking them this Sunday, but some things have come up and I think I'm going to have to do them tonight.
> 
> Will 8 days in the brine be long enough??  I measured the thickest part at 1.75" before I put them in.  I'll be doing a tray's worth of cold smoke from the AMPS.
> I saved this on my computer as a rule of thumb.  It's incompletely cured Canadian bacon after 7 days with pop's wet cure.  Regular belly bacon is the same amount of  curing time as Canadian bacon with pop's wet cure.


Maybe this may help. Pop's wet cure has the same curing time for Canadian and belly bacon.  Better to go a little longer than not long enough.

-Kurt

1/25/13








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Pops recommends 1 week per inch of thickness in his brine. Here is what he wrote on Canadian Bacon.

Pops6927
Dec 10, 2012 at 5:09 am

It is not mandatory to inject; just make sure you cure it long enough. I go by 1" = 1 week. 2" 2 weeks, 3" 3 weeks and inject, 4 weeks 4" and inject. Canadian bacon pork loin is in the 2" category and optional on injecting. The main thing is to let it cure long enough so you don't get this:













uncured cured pork.jpeg



__ pops6927
__ Dec 10, 2012






That is Canadian bacon that was not cured long enough, so it never got cured fully in the center. 14 days is minimum to cure it (I think this was 7 days in the brine).


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## kickingwing

Pop, I plan on using the brine to season and cure some sirloin to make jerky. If my pieces are 1/8-1/2in thick would a couple days allow the cure to penetrate or is that too long?


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## pilch

Thanks Doug you just put me back aways with ya story.

I know where ya comin from as I worked in a Meat Works once but we were only handling beef at the time and I sure saw some strange things happing there.

Cheers from Down Under.


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## jnorth

I'm smoking some bacon I made with Pop's Brine and there seems to be a problem.  It does not look cured at all, the belly is not red at all.  This is not the first batch of bacon I've done using this brine, all the others came out looking like bacon.
 

The only thing I can think of that might be the cause is if when I wrote down the ingredients (computer is upstairs of kitchen) I might have wrote tsp instead of Tbsp, I've done that before in a recipe but it doesn't matter so much when it is spices instead of cure.  Thats also why I've always used Tbsp and tsp with Tablespoon getting capitalized.

So, if that is what I did, that would make it ~0.33 oz / gal of water.  Is that enough to be safe?  I've found references to a maximum amount of cure but not the minimum.

Also, if that amount is too low and I need to toss the stuff in the smoker what about the two slabs that haven't left the fridge (not enough room in the smoker).  Can they be safely re-cured or should I just save them for use as not-quite bacon (and treat them as not cured so keep the 40-140 / 4hrs cooking requirements)?

thanks for any help.


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## pops6927

During and after curing, the meat can be many different shades from red to gray; color isn't important at this point.  After it is smoked and cooked (or semi-cooked, to internal of 135° minimum) the color should be a variation of dark to light pink.

See my Article:  http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/meats-touching-meats-in-curing-brine


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## jnorth

The ones I smoked were hot smoked and they look like roast pork (white) now.  I cooked a piece that was still in the fridge and it also only turned white, tasted like salty pork chop, not like bacon.


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## pops6927

JNorth said:


> The ones I smoked were hot smoked and they look like roast pork (white) now.  I cooked a piece that was still in the fridge and it also only turned white, tasted like salty pork chop, not like bacon.



Either you forgot the curing salt or you used far too little; the pork was not cured.


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## motsyball

Pops6927 said:


> real simple curing brine:
> 
> for every 1 gallon of water, add:
> 
> 1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)
> 
> 1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]
> 
> 1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix
> 
> 1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt
> 
> stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in
> 
> weight down with a partially filled 1 qt or 1 gal. ziploc bag or bags to keep meat immersed
> 
> Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.
> 
> You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters:


What is the shelf life of this brine?  How long is it good for once I mix the instacure #1 into the gallon of water?  Can I mix it up, add half of the gallon of brine to a ziploc of chicken and then store the other half gallon of brine in the fridge until I need to brine meat again in a week or so?


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## pops6927

2 weeks


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## motsyball

Thanks


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## okie362

Just now put some butt slabs in this brine.  First attempt at BBB.  Wish me luck!!


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## meatguy

Not sure if this has been covered, but I am doing a brine for canadian bacon later tonight.  Most of the recipes say mix the ingredients for the brine and heat to a simmer.  One recipe said add the pink salt after it has cooled.  Does it matter if I add it during the heating process or not?  I have my ratios right now thanks to this thread.

Thanks


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## pc farmer

No not heat the cure.


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## meatguy

Thanks for the quick reply!  There are a lot of recipes out there I think are wrong.  They don't mention to not add the pink salt until after the brine has cooled down.  They keep running these pork loins on sale so I figured I would try some canadian bacon.  Only have done belly bacon so far.  Can't wait to try this one.


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## montyodom

Pops are you there


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## tr00ter

What is the max length you can leave a loin in the Brine?  Reason I ask is I have a 7lber in the brine and it is going to be done Saturday (9 days) and I've been asked to take a little trip where  wouldn't be back till Sunday to pull it out.  Would an extra day or two make a difference?

Thanks, much!


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## pc farmer

Tr00ter said:


> What is the max length you can leave a loin in the Brine?  Reason I ask is I have a 7lber in the brine and it is going to be done Saturday (9 days) and I've been asked to take a little trip where  wouldn't be back till Sunday to pull it out.  Would an extra day or two make a difference?
> 
> Thanks, much!


You will be fine.

I had bone in loins cure for 3 weeks.


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## tr00ter

Thanks Much Farmer!!

Take Care.


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## bladebuilder

Got a couple whole hams in Pops brine, pulled them out of the fridge today to check on them. There was a slight alcohol smell, not sour or rotting smell, just like an early fermentation smell. I pulled the hams, washed them well, dumped and cleaned/sanitized the tub, mixed up some new clean brine, and put them back in the fridge.

My question after the fact, is if that is a normal occurance? The last hams I did, the brine got cloudy, but no off smells.

Thoughts? Did I need to worry? Did I do the right thing?


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## daveomak

Bladebuilder said:


> Got a couple whole hams in Pops brine, pulled them out of the fridge today to check on them. There was a slight alcohol smell, not sour or rotting smell, just like an early fermentation smell. I pulled the hams, washed them well, dumped and cleaned/sanitized the tub, mixed up some new clean brine, and put them back in the fridge.
> 
> My question after the fact, is if that is a normal occurance? The last hams I did, the brine got cloudy, but no off smells.
> 
> Thoughts? Did I need to worry? Did I do the right thing?


All is good....  You must have used brown sugar.....   the contaminants in it started the fermentation process....  

...click on pics to enlarge....













RopyStringyBrine1.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Dec 29, 2015





  ... 













RopyStringyBrine2.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Dec 29, 2015


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## bladebuilder

DaveOmak said:


> Bladebuilder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a couple whole hams in Pops brine, pulled them out of the fridge today to check on them. There was a slight alcohol smell, not sour or rotting smell, just like an early fermentation smell. I pulled the hams, washed them well, dumped and cleaned/sanitized the tub, mixed up some new clean brine, and put them back in the fridge.
> 
> My question after the fact, is if that is a normal occurance? The last hams I did, the brine got cloudy, but no off smells.
> 
> Thoughts? Did I need to worry? Did I do the right thing?
> 
> 
> 
> All is good....  You must have used brown sugar.....   the contaminants in it started the fermentation process....
> 
> ...click on pics to enlarge....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RopyStringyBrine1.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ daveomak
> __ Dec 29, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RopyStringyBrine2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ daveomak
> __ Dec 29, 2015
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave. I did use brown sugar as per Pops recipe. As well I used pure maple sugar.

In these articles you posted, they mention to scald the package? I assume they meant the barrels/drums back in the day? Would the meat surface have been scalded too?


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## inkjunkie

Not to long ago I dropped a piece of butt into Pops Brine. To be safe I also injected it...heavily. Was a small hunk-o-meat, still gave it 12 days. Quick rinse prior to a test fry, had 0 salt taste. Cold smoked it over Apple pellets....for 35 hours. Had some this morning....the taste was incredible. 
Can Pops Brine be used on a Pork Loin to make Canadian Bacon? If so any suggestions on spices, both in the brine and prior to smoking?


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## pc farmer

inkjunkie said:


> Not to long ago I dropped a piece of butt into Pops Brine. To be safe I also injected it...heavily. Was a small hunk-o-meat, still gave it 12 days. Quick rinse prior to a test fry, had 0 salt taste. Cold smoked it over Apple pellets....for 35 hours. Had some this morning....the taste was incredible.
> Can Pops Brine be used on a Pork Loin to make Canadian Bacon? If so any suggestions on spices, both in the brine and prior to smoking?



Works for cb and alot of stuff.

I only use the brine with nothing in it.   Add spices while forming the pelicle.  

For cb, I dont add anything.


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## inkjunkie

c farmer said:


> Works for cb and alot of stuff.
> 
> I only use the brine with nothing in it.   Add spices while forming the pelicle.
> 
> For cb, I dont add anything.


Thanks for the quick tesponse. 
Just to make sure I understand your response. You use just the basic brine? And when you make CB you add nothing to the meat, spice wise?
Just made some CB,  my first try. I purchased....
https://www.himtnjerky.com/Buckboard-Bacon-Cure.html

Meat is very flavorful...


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## pc farmer

You are correct.

I usually use the lo salt version.


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## inkjunkie

c farmer said:


> You are correct.
> 
> I usually use the lo salt version.


I used the low salt version on the last Buck Board Bacon.


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## eddiej1967

hello pops, I am going to use your brine for beef jerky, my question is can i add other liquids to that, Example soy sauce ,worchestire sauce, teriyaki? thank you


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## craig2387

I've seen some people say they turn the meat over daily or every couple days using this brine, is that necessary, a good idea, or does it work just fine leaving it alone? Thanks.


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## stovebolt

Craig2387 said:


> I've seen some people say they turn the meat over daily or every couple days using this brine, is that necessary, a good idea, or does it work just fine leaving it alone? Thanks.


  It's fine just left alone. With a dry cure it needs the extra treatment.

Chuck


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## craig2387

stovebolt said:


> It's fine just left alone. With a dry cure it needs the extra treatment.
> 
> Chuck


Thanks!


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## mr crab

Well...i couldnt take it any longer.  Just mixed up 2gal.  Injected and dunked 4 venison rear leg muscles, a domestic pork loin, a wild boar loin, and a couple venison tenderloins....i can't wait to taste it.  Nothin was over 2 inches thick, and i plan to smoke em in pecan next sunday, 1-31.


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## 3montes

Threads don't get much better than this for good, solid information. Thanks to Pops and everyone who contributed. I have never done bellies for bacon but have done a lot of brining for flavor. Turkeys, yard bird, loins etc. So brining is not foreign to me at all.

I'm buying my first pork bellies Thursday and plan on getting them in the cure/brine on Saturday so they are ready for the smoker two Saturdays after that.

One thing I learned with my brines is that nasty tasting tap water makes for a nasty brine which makes for a nasty tasting whatever it is you are brining.

I always use bottled water because our tap water is not the best. We have a office type water cooler in our house so it's always handy. It made a huge difference in my brined meats.

Because this cure/brine is not a salt heavy brine it may not be that big of a issue but I'd thought I'd throw it out there.

Now after reading all 16 of these pages I am conflicted about one thing. Pops brine calls for brown and white sugar. Dave Omaks post indicates brown sugar will result in a ropy slimy brine. Something that I would rather not have. Just seems unappetizing. So I assume I can omit the brown sugar and double up on the white sugar? Also would turbinado sugar work as well as regular granulated table sugar?


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## daveomak

It's the impurities that make ropy brine.... clean the bucket etc. good ....  I use vinegar and wipe down after soap and water....   Good clean water is important also...    Processed white sugar is clean...  Pickling / Kosher salt is clean...     Turbinado has molasses and stuff in it...  or what ever that brown stuff is......

I've brined stuff for 3 weeks and nothing ropy happened to me...

Using "clean" ingredients, I think, makes for a clean tasting finished product...

ALSO....  since sugar molecules are larger than salt, up to 10 times longer to penetrate the meat is needed...  soooooo, I like to brine for at least 14 days.....   makes for a better product...


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## 3montes

Thanks Dave. So a good clean brining container and the brown sugar should be fine if I understand you correctly?


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## pc farmer

I have used brown sugar without any issues?


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## daveomak

3montes said:


> Thanks Dave. So a good clean brining container and the brown sugar should be fine if I understand you correctly?


All I know is brown sugar has some impurities, from what I have read...   

...click on pics to enlarge....













RopyStringyBrine2.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Dec 29, 2015





 ..













RopyStringyBrine1.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Dec 29, 2015


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## ak1

Brown sugar only contains impurities because of the BS put forth by the big refined sugar industry.


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## jeffinn

I use brown sugar in Pops brine every time I make it and I've never had a problem with ropy brine.


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## remsr

I am about to cute my first ever hams. One is a 7 pound bone in Boston butt the other is a 6 pound boneless Boston butt. I have pink cure #1, Tender Quick and something called sweeter than sweet that I got from my butcher. I have read countless enformation on this and none seem to agree on amounts of cure or curing time or even types of cure. I am totally confused. Can anyone help me by telling me exactly what to do?


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## dirtsailor2003

REMSR said:


> I am about to cute my first ever hams. One is a 7 pound bone in Boston butt the other is a 6 pound boneless Boston butt. I have pink cure #1, Tender Quick and something called sweeter than sweet that I got from my butcher. I have read countless enformation on this and none seem to agree on amounts of cure or curing time or even types of cure. I am totally confused. Can anyone help me by telling me exactly what to do?


Each one of the cures you mentioned have specific requirements for cure amounts and curing times. So you need to pick a cure you want to use and start there. Since you have cure #1 I'd recommend using Pop's brine cure. It is the simplest method for a beginner to use. Mix the brine Submerge or inject and submerge the meat per the amount of time given.  Go to the first post in this thread and follow the directions exactly.

Since your cut is bone in, you will want to inject the brine around the bone really good.

Here is some reading for you about cure types and how they differ.

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts


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## remsr

Thank you! Am I reading Pop's brine cure right. 10 to 14 days in the brine?
Randy,


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## dirtsailor2003

REMSR said:


> Thank you! Am I reading Pop's brine cure right. 10 to 14 days in the brine?
> Randy,



Three to four weeks for hams. 21-28 days


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## remsr

Even if I use pork butts like I make pulled pork out of?


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## dirtsailor2003

REMSR said:


> Even if I use pork butts like I make pulled pork out of?


Yes 10-14 days for butts.


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## daveomak

REMSR said:


> Even if I use pork butts like I make pulled pork out of?


REMSR, afternoon.....    contrary to what you can read from some folks.....   curing is a process that takes time.....    Ignoring the proper length of time to cure a particular thickness of meat you can end up with something like in the picture below...  any hunk of meat over 2" thick should be injected also....

.....  incomplete cured piece of meat........  click on pic to enlarge.....













Cured Ham Fail Clarissa.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Mar 10, 2016


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## remsr

Thank you again. What you have told me takes the confusion out of curing meats. However, the article about using pure sugar seems a tittle over the top. I have read where someone had experienced roppy brine, but never said why, they just changed the brine which sounds kind of dangerous to me,
 but every recipe I read has brown sugar in it even pop's brine yet this article says don't use brown sugar??? I apologize for asking so many questions but I dislike making mistake even more then I love success,


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## remsr

One last question I have a gallon of pop's brine mixed up in the refrigerator cooling down after boiling some spices into it. Do I just inject them like I inject them for pulled pork


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## unclejhim

When making a brine when should the pink salt (cure #1 ) be added? I've heard that you should not add the cure to hot/boing/simmering water? Does it matter?

Thanks


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## daveomak

unclejhim said:


> When making a brine when should the pink salt (cure #1 ) be added? I've heard that you should not add the cure to hot/boing/simmering water? Does it matter?
> 
> Thanks


Always add the cure AFTER the brine has cooled...    Good question.....


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## unclejhim

Thanks.


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## buckinducks

Should this be left in the fridge ? Or will that slow the brine process to much. Currently have a pork belly in.


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## Bearcarver

buckinducks said:


> Should this be left in the fridge ? Or will that slow the brine process to much. Currently have a pork belly in.


Temp should be between 34° and 40°---Preferably 36° to 38°.

Bear


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## remsr

Then my hams should not have turned out because I mixed everything, pickelling spices, brown sugar, white sugar. Kosher Salt, pink salt then I boiled it all in a stainless steel stock pot, then cooled it down to 34 degree and submerged the pork butts and put a gallon zip lock bag of water on top to hold them down. They weren't really crowded but they were touching a bit so I turned them often for 14 days. After 14 days I washed them with cold water dryed them and put them in the refrigerator in open air to form  the p word over night,  then I bubble smoked them. The first day I smoked them with a mix of Hicory and apple pellets using the Amazing smoker in my Masterbuilt 40" to 120 itt then back in the refrigerator in open air over night then I smoked them to 145 the next day. They came out great  so I don't understand how adding pink salt after I Boiled and cooled the brine could have made a difference. So next time I will add the pink salt after the brine is cooled to see if there is a difference.
Understand that I don't doubt anyone who has more experience then myself which is almost everyone, but I do wonder how I lucked out on this smoke?  Has anyone done it the way I did and experienced something bad?
Randy,


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## daveomak

REMSR said:


> Then my hams should not have turned out because I mixed everything, pickelling spices, brown sugar, white sugar. Kosher Salt, pink salt then I boiled it all in a stainless steel stock pot, then cooled it down to 34 degree and submerged the pork butts and put a gallon zip lock bag of water on top to hold them down. They weren't really crowded but they were touching a bit so I turned them often for 14 days. After 14 days I washed them with cold water dryed them and put them in the refrigerator in open air to form the p word over night, then I bubble smoked them. The first day I smoked them with a mix of Hicory and apple pellets using the Amazing smoker in my Masterbuilt 40" to 120 itt then back in the refrigerator in open air over night then I smoked them to 145 the next day. *They came out great so I don't understand how adding pink salt after I Boiled and cooled the brine could have made a difference.* So next time I will add the pink salt after the brine is cooled to see if there is a difference.
> Understand that I don't doubt anyone who has more experience then myself which is almost everyone, but I do wonder how I lucked out on this smoke? Has anyone done it the way I did and experienced something bad?
> Randy,


 Scientists do testing to make sure the parameters they outline are safe.....   Cure #1 and all other cures are degraded in temps above 130 deg. F....   The nitrite applied to the meat was below what you intended...


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## remsr

So next time my ham will be even better!
Thank you .
Randy,


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## dr k

REMSR said:


> Then my hams should not have turned out because I mixed everything, pickelling spices, brown sugar, white sugar. Kosher Salt, pink salt then I boiled it all in a stainless steel stock pot, then cooled it down to 34 degree and submerged the pork butts and put a gallon zip lock bag of water on top to hold them down. They weren't really crowded but they were touching a bit so I turned them often for 14 days. After 14 days I washed them with cold water dryed them and put them in the refrigerator in open air to form the p word over night, then I bubble smoked them. The first day I smoked them with a mix of Hicory and apple pellets using the Amazing smoker in my Masterbuilt 40" to 120 itt then back in the refrigerator in open air over night then I smoked them to 145 the next day. They came out great so I don't understand how adding pink salt after I Boiled and cooled the brine could have made a difference. So next time I will add the pink salt after the brine is cooled to see if there is a difference.
> Understand that I don't doubt anyone who has more experience then myself which is almost everyone, but I do wonder how I lucked out on this smoke? Has anyone done it the way I did and experienced something bad?
> Randy,


I must be missing something.  You did boil it all and it worked (which is good.)  When I researched nitrate vs.nitrite curing I'm like what Dave mentioned, that nitrite breaks down after 130*F (which is a good thing.)  Nitrates are more stable at higher temps.  Googlling how nitrates/nitrites preserve food is an interesting scientific processes.  I'm not a doctor and I get a little po'd when the Doc's do have studies on the nitrites of cured meats and leaving out the veggie end of nitrates.  The nitrates in celery, cabbage, root veggies etc. are high but docs  say they are offset by antioxidants.  So, eat an apple or take Vitamin C with cured meats LOL.  Sorry about the run away on this.  I have made my cured brine cold and let it sit in the fridge till are granules are is solution, as my frozen food thaws in the fridge.  Steve Raichlen on tv boils his nitrite in his brine. 

-Kurt


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## tropics

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/243139/1st-attempt-at-corned-beef

Here is an article that says different

Richie


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## daveomak

I did a search on "residual nitrites in processed meats".....    Below is one article...   they all say basically the same thing....  

Ingoing nitrite is from 100-200 Ppm(mg/kg) and after processing the measured nitrite is from (1981 10-42 Ppm(mg/kg)) and (2009 7 Ppm(mg/kg)) an 80% reduction in nitrite.....   The higher 1981 numbers are prior to strict ingoing nitrite controls...   The 7 Ppm nitrite numbers are from processed meats at the consumer counter....   The reduction in nitrite from 100-200 Ppm to 7 ppm is during the processing process....  hanging and cooking in the smoker....   Pressure cooked in the retort...    Anyway, one can glean from these articles that processing reduces the nitrite and processing is heat...   If you think that is incorrect, what else reduces the nitrite....   little botulism bugs ???     Find a reference that suggests something other than processing reduces the nitrite in processed foods....   

Now, I could be wrong about this whole deal, but, cooking the cure #1 in boiling/heated water "COULD" reduce the available nitrite from 200 Ppm to 7 Ppm which is doing you absolutely no good when it comes to killing the botulism bug...  If you think I do not have your best interest at heart.....  go eat a balut....

http://www.cmc-cvc.com/en/nutrition-health/nitrite-cured-meat-products


----------



## jaxrmrjmr

Dang,  lots of hard headed people out there.  What is being offered is a safe way of doing things - not the absolute way that things must be done.

There are tribes of indians that bury fish in the sand and then dig it up and eat it once it ferments.  Thai's bury veggies and such then dig it up and eat it a month or so later.

Just because you did things one way and it didn't go bad doesn't mean that it is a universally safe way of doing it.

I think we have some pretty good safety standards.  Or ignore the advise but do not comment on it.


----------



## remsr

This was my first time using Prague powder and my first attempt at hams.  Nothing I read said not to boil the cure,  but I did read about boiling herbs and spices to reliece the flavors in to the brine. Now that I have been told not to boil the cure I will never boil the cure again. My reasoning is that most brines don't need to be boiled if they don't contain solids that  benefit  from boiling. That being said it's save to say that cure works in cold water without question, so I will go with what I know is safe from now on. Thank you  all for setting me strate on that. 
Randy,


----------



## daveomak

Randy, morning....    Logical thinking...  Good choice....  NOW, I have only read NOT to cook or boil nitrite as it loses it's effectiveness...   They don't say why and I have looked for evidence other than test results on processed foods which I have posted...   I do wish there was an explanation, _SOMEWHERE,_ that would make this easier to convince folks and explain why.....  Reading posts, from famous folks, that say to boil cure in with your spices, does nothing for my confidence that it is safe...   Just because they have been in front of a camera or wrote a book on curing, doesn't prove they know squat about the science.....  

OK, let me get down off of my soapbox....   Cure on....   be safe....     Dave


----------



## remsr

Thanks Dave, "better safe than sorry".
Randy,


----------



## buckinducks

Loved the brine, added a dash of maple exctract 7 days in, didn't add anything to my bacon on the outside not even pepper and it was fantastic. 2 rows of smoke on amnps and it was the perfect mix of sweet and smokey. Used the low salt version and wasn't a tad bit salty.


----------



## remsr

I really don't know how we servived back when I was growing up. We didn't have runing water so it made it difficult to keep hands and equipment sanitary, all meat was cut on the same cutting board that I don't  recall ever being washed. We didn't have electricity so we didn't have a refrigerator, instead we had an ice box with a lot of the space taken up by a large block of ice, for many years we didn't even have An ice box. So we couldn't defrost frozen foods at what is considered now to be a save degrees. The good news is that we didn't need to defrost frozen foods because there wasn't any. We couldn't keep leftovers long, so we rearlly had any. We consumed a lot of dried beef, salt pork, salami, pickled foods and other foods that keep well without refrigeration. But still we consumed a lot of fresh meats that were not handled or cooked under the most sanitary conditions,  yet no one got sick. 
Understand I am certainly not saying that we shouldn't practice save and sanitary conditions because I have had two resent experiences with food poisoning myself eating at respectable restaurants. 
I am just wondering what has changed so much that we have to be so carefull now days? 
Today ignoring safety and sanitary conditions is like getting in your car and driving down a busy street ignoring all the traffic lights. Maybe you're lucky and you get to where your going, but there is a greater chance that you won't. Oh I know there were cases of food poisoning back in the day, but not in my family and not like today, why? I think if this question can be answered more people will take safe food handling and cooking more serious. My 90 year old mom bless her heart, still defrosts everything on the kitchen counter over night and does other unsafe food prep and handling as well. How we all servive without getting sick or worse is anyone's guess.


----------



## daveomak

REMSR, morning.....   A few things have changed....   Folks died and no one knew what they died from....   Some salt had nitrites and nitrates already in it from mother nature...    There was no world wide media reporting the deaths...   there was no scientific community studying why folks died and what caused it...  

Back when, average life expectancy was......  see chart....  folks were dying from a myriad of things...   Fortunately today, cause and effect has lengthened our lives considerably...













Life Expectancy.jpg



__ daveomak
__ May 7, 2016


----------



## atomicsmoke

Main difference between now and back in the day is the quality of meat. Store bought meat today is likely contaminated when you buy it. The one you ate when you were a kid was likely clean. You knew where it came from. Skipping a few sanitation steps was not enough to turn the meat bad.


----------



## remsr

Yes I took all that into condition and remember well without checking that 65 was the average life expectancy. I was born in 1944 so I have seen a few things and yes I am sure people got sick and even died from many things that were not diagnosed back then and communication back then was only slightly better than smoke signals, so we weren't vary well informed. I come from a vary large family. My grand parents on my mothers side had 16 children. Grandma died at age 60 but grandpa lived to be 101. What I am wondering about is that I know how good was handled and prepared  in our family and no one got sick or died from food  poisoning. But now I am personal experienceing food poisoning, wthout herring about it on TV which is often. There is something else going on that wasn't going on in my day and that is what I would like every one to know. It seems the risk is much greater now, even though we have many modern ways of staying save in addition to out knowledge. I myself practice safe food prep and conditions and now that I know that boiling cure is not safe I will never boil it again and make sure everyone I know is informed.


----------



## remsr

That makes sense


----------



## williemcd

So perhaps 3 days of brining for cut belly?  It shouldn't take too long to penetrate would it?


----------



## foamheart

williemcd said:


> So perhaps 3 days of brining for cut belly?  It shouldn't take too long to penetrate would it?


*Curing Times*

*“Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.”*


----------



## ozziehunter

I just want to double check that i havent stuffed up here. I did a batch of venison jerky following pops recipe plus adding a few spices. I didnt weigh the meat as my scales broke and just put about 3 pounds of strips into the full gallon of water. Strips are about 1/4 inch thick some are thinner. Its been brining for 40 hours. Im i stiil ok or do i bin it. 

I thought the recipe didnt watter the meat to brine ratio but now after going through other posts on here im not sure.

cheers

brett


----------



## daveomak

ozziehunter said:


> I just want to double check that i havent stuffed up here. I did a batch of venison jerky following pops recipe plus adding a few spices. I didnt weigh the meat as my scales broke and just put about 3 pounds of strips into the full gallon of water. Strips are about 1/4 inch thick some are thinner. Its been brining for 40 hours. Im i stiil ok or do i bin it.
> 
> I thought the recipe didnt watter the meat to brine ratio but now after going through other posts on here im not sure.
> 
> cheers
> 
> brett


You are fine if you added the 1 gallon ingredients.... FWIW...  Sugar is a huge molecule compared to salt...  the longer in the brine, the better for the sugar adsorption... Although the table below is for making sausage, the cure #1 rates apply to "most" meat curing products..... 1 TBS. of cure #1 ~ 15.6 grams of cure #1....  which will effectively cure ~14#'s of meat and water in a refrigerated brine...  *The cure will be a little high but will be effectively reduced during the "cooking" process....  sooooo, there are no worries....*

real simple curing brine:

 for every 1 gallon of water, add:

1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)

1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]

1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix

1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt

Use as directed, more is not better and it can be toxic. To ensure that the cure is distributed more evenly in your sausage, mix it with the liquid that your recipe calls for, or mix it with the meat prior to grinding.

Use as follows:

Cure per pound of ground meat/fat:
U.S. Measurements
Amount of Meat/FatAmount of Cure Vol.Wt. 1 lb.1/4 tsp..05 oz.2 lbs.3/8 tsp..08 oz.3 lbs.1/2 tsp..10 oz.4 lbs.3/4 tsp..15 oz.5 lbs.1 tsp..20 oz.10 lbs.2 tsp..40 oz.15 lbs.1 Tbsp..55 oz.20 lbs.1 Tbsp. + 1 tsp..80 oz.25 lbs.1 Tbsp. + 2 tsp.1.00 oz.50 lbs.3 Tbsp. + 1 1/4 tsp.2.00 oz.100 lbs.1/4 C. + 2 Tbsp. + 2 tsp.4.00 oz.
tsp. = teaspoon; Tbsp.= Tablespoon; C. = cup.
oz.= ounce

Although cure #1 has salt in the mix, when using it in sausage making additional salt needs to be added.


----------



## ozziehunter

thankyou. but juts to clarify. With this brine. It doesn't matter how much meat i put into it as long as i stay under the 14 pound "limit" per gallon of brine. So it is no different for 1 pound of meat vs 12pounds of meat. 

Also does the ppm change depending on the thickness of the meat. And if so do i then need to adjust the amount of cure slightly. I should add that im still building my smoker so this is being done in an electric dehydrator


----------



## daveomak

Pops brine is safe for about anything that can be submerged in one gallon of water....

Since you are curious about curing, the "mathematical" steps to proper curing involve a grams scale and a pounds scale.... 

Sausage max. Ppm nitrite 156 .....  that number is also used when using a rub, that I call "dry brining"...  or in a wet brine...  or in an injection....

Weigh the meat, if using a brine, weigh the brine, when injecting, weigh the meat..

Ppm is based, in our case, on weights....  Converting to grams really helps to understand Ppm... 

If you have 1,000,000 grams of meat and add 1 gram of sodium nitrite, the meat has 1 Ppm nitrite in it...

If you have 1,000,000 grams of meat and water combined, and add 1 gram of sodium nitrite, after a considerable amount of time, the meat will contain 1 Ppm nitrite...  (The USDA does not differentiate the sodium content, if you add potassium nitrite the nitrite has a different calculation and the potassium is not differentiated)

There are several ways to calculate the proper amount of nitrite... 

#'s of meat X 0.25% = the amount of cure #1 for ~156 Ppm nitrite...

Grams of meat or meat + water brine X 0.000156 = amount of nitrite in grams to achieve a 156 Ppm concentration...   SINCE sodium nitrite is almost impossible to measure accurately, AND it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to have around, cure #1 was assembled for home users to use...   to convert grams of nitrite to grams of cure #1 for a proper amount to add to the meat, divide the grams nitrite by the % nitrite in the cure....  in this case, cure #1 is 6.25% nitrite...  sooooo.....8,563 grams of meat or meat + brine X 0.000156 = 1.34 grams of nitrite divided by 0.0625 (% nitrite in cure #1) = 21.4 grams of cure #1 would be the proper addition.

Finally, if needed, #'s of stuff X 1.1 grams per pound of cure #1 for a 156 Ppm mix....

If you need any assistance, or my tutorial was a bit confusing, PM me anytime and we can discuss curing.....   Dave


----------



## wrestler75

I forgot to add salt to my brine and I am on day 10 for my belly bacon.  I I did add pink curing salt but I just did not add the sea salt.  What should I do any recommendation?


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## unclejhim

I would add the salt now and extend the brine time.


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## wrestler75

Well I had dumped out the brine already and had it sitting in the fridge to smoke...........I decided to give the bacon a big coat of sea salt onion power garlic and pepper and let it sit over night.  I know there will be no equalization of salt in the meat.  After a late night of reading the forum the sea salt is flavoring and the cure is required.  My bacon will not be salty for the most part but will be cured and safe to smoke.  Am I right?  All your opinions matter........


----------



## dr k

wrestler75 said:


> Well I had dumped out the brine already and had it sitting in the fridge to smoke...........I decided to give the bacon a big coat of sea salt onion power garlic and pepper and let it sit over night.  I know there will be no equalization of salt in the meat.  After a late night of reading the forum the sea salt is flavoring and the cure is required.  My bacon will not be salty for the most part but will be cured and safe to smoke.  Am I right?  All your opinions matter........


I usually add one third cup of kosher salt to one gallon of Pops cure.  The specific gravity of the dissolved sugars is still higher and more dense than the myoglobin in the muscle so it should still flow in over the time it was curing but maybe not as efficiently without added salt. I'm not sure about the heavy salt coating on the outside. I would brush off or rinse off and put in the fridge to form the pellicle for a day and see how turns out. Some of us do low salt cures so a no added salt other than pink salt that you added I'd think would be ok.  
-Kurt


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## wrestler75

20160628_071553.jpg



__ wrestler75
__ Jun 28, 2016





Thanks Kurt....I had a nice pelicle formed after a nice rest in the fridge.  I am 9 hours in a cold smoke in my MES with amazen filled with apple and hickory...


----------



## dr k

wrestler75 said:


> 20160628_071553.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ wrestler75
> __ Jun 28, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Kurt....I had a nice pelicle formed after a nice rest in the fridge.  I am 9 hours in a cold smoke in my MES with amazen filled with apple and hickory...


Let us know how well the cure penetrated and how it tastes with the salt free cure, and how the heavy salting on the outside worked for you. 
-Kurt


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## wrestler75




----------



## wrestler75

20160628_195903.jpg



__ wrestler75
__ Jun 28, 2016


















20160628_193042.jpg



__ wrestler75
__ Jun 28, 2016





Always wanted to make my own bacon...Brined a 20 lb. pork belly 12 days ago.  Took it out yesterday and let it form a nice pelicle for today's 14 hour apple/hickory wood cold smoke.    All I can say is I will never buy bacon again...The was amazing.  I elected not to wash off salt in the outside.  It was perfect....my wife and kids loved it as well.  Will freeze a bit in the morning and slice and vaccum seal.


----------



## dr k

wrestler75 said:


> 20160628_195903.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ wrestler75
> __ Jun 28, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20160628_193042.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ wrestler75
> __ Jun 28, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always wanted to make my own bacon...Brined a 20 lb. pork belly 12 days ago.  Took it out yesterday and let it form a nice pelicle for today's 14 hour apple/hickory wood cold smoke.    All I can say is I will never buy bacon again...The was amazing.  I elected not to wash off salt in the outside.  It was perfect....my wife and kids loved it as well.  Will freeze a bit in the morning and slice and vaccum seal.


I'm glad it turned out great. Looks like the salt free wet cure did its job. 
-Kurt


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## n4ynu

Pops6927 said:


> real simple curing brine:
> 
> for every 1 gallon of water, add:
> 
> 1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)
> 
> 1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]
> 
> 1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix
> 
> 1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt
> 
> stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in
> 
> weight down with a partially filled 1 qt or 1 gal. ziploc bag or bags to keep meat immersed
> 
> Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.
> 
> You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters:


I see you're using sea salt here, my question would be, are you using a coarse or fine sea salt, and I know you have spoken of this conversion or or I have read it from one of the many posts I have looked at, but, if yours is coarse, then would I scale back the max from say 1 cup to 2/3 cup, and then if I wanted less scale back from the 2/3 cup ?
If yours is fine then all is good, but I wanted to ask, trying to stick very close to your recipe here.

Thankyou Ahead of time Pops !

Newbie 

Guy

Guy


----------



## wrestler75

I used course sea salt on the top with garlic, brown sugar, onion powder, and pepper.  In the brine I used fine sea salt.  I always add less salt.  I do not like my bacon to salty.


----------



## wrestler75

I made this recipe again and substituted slenda brown sugar for regular and added maple extract.  The fry test was AMAZING....


----------



## n4ynu

Pops6927 said:


> real simple curing brine:
> 
> for every 1 gallon of water, add:
> 
> 1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)
> 
> 1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]
> 
> 1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix
> 
> 1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt
> 
> stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in
> 
> weight down with a partially filled 1 qt or 1 gal. ziploc bag or bags to keep meat immersed
> 
> Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.
> 
> You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters:


Pops, 

I made a post already and it disappeared, probably something I failed to do, so going to try it again.

I see you're using Sea Salt here, my question being :
Is it fine or coarse ?
My comment regarding it would be if it is coarse, and I am using fine, would I scale the "1 cup" back to say 2/3 cup ?
If you are using a fine version then all is good, but I am trying to follow your recipe closely and would like to know.
I am getting my recipe in order for the trial runs that will commence in the next couple of weeks, very excited  :)
Thankyou ahead of time, I have heard so many speak of your recipe and have some great ideas already from all the good reads here on SMF!

Sincerely,
Virgin Briner/newbie to forum

Guy


----------



## radioguy

N4YNU,

You are correct about measuring the salt.  I have used Pops brine with great results.  I weigh all my dry ingredients to insure consistency.  I use kosher or sea salt.  Through tasting and trials I use 125g salt, 90g white sugar and 100g Brown sugar.  

Good luck, nice to see another amateur radio op too!

RG


----------



## n4ynu

RadioGuy said:


> N4YNU,
> 
> You are correct about measuring the salt. I have used Pops brine with great results. I weigh all my dry ingredients to insure consistency. I use kosher or sea salt. Through tasting and trials I use 125g salt, 90g white sugar and 100g Brown sugar.
> 
> Good luck, nice to see another amateur radio op too!
> 
> RG


RG,

Thankyou for that, I sent Pops a PM as well, I will record your weights for the ingredients in my recipe text file, I am assuming by saying I was correct in my measuring that you were referring to the 2/3 cup fine in place of the 1 cup course, I am going to do like I have seen many do here, like you do, and convert my measurement to grams as opposed to cups and so on.

Thanks Again,

Guy


----------



## TKOBBQ1

OK I'm doing my first belly bacon with Pop's brine, I've read this tread in its entirety.  But I'm still a little confused on some information that seems to contadict each other.  I mixed 1 gallon of Pop's brine per the directions.  Cut two bellies (approx 12lbs. each) into sizes that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket.  Poured brine over bellies and weighted with a plate with water filled ziplock bag to keep them submersed. Is this correct?  Some say in this thread that the brine is only good for 12lbs. of meat.


----------



## unclejhim

You should be good to go.


----------



## n4ynu

Grabber70Mach said:


> OK I'm doing my first belly bacon with Pop's brine, I've read this tread in its entirety. But I'm still a little confused on some information that seems to contadict each other. I mixed 1 gallon of Pop's brine per the directions. Cut two bellies (approx 12lbs. each) into sizes that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Poured brine over bellies and weighted with a plate with water filled ziplock bag to keep them submersed. Is this correct? Some say in this thread that the brine is only good for 12lbs. of meat.


I have seen the same here and there, I remember 15 lbs though LOL

From what I have learned regarding this Brining/Curing Recipe of Pop's is that the weight is no matter using this liquid brine recipe as long as the meat is covered and remains submerged, in other words the larger amount of meat, the more wet brine/cure you would need to cover it and then it would be compensated for, so the wet cure is a bit different, and Pop's Wet Curing recipe is designed for a longer soak to account for the lower concentration, as well it is supposed to produce a more tender and more tasty meat in the end.
If you have these stacked tight in there as your only using a gallon ? for all that meat, in my opinion you may want to separate the slabs, if they are stacked tight, the brine/cure should have access to most all the surface area of the slabs, if stacked then you would have issues with the even penetration of the cure and the brine in my opinion, so might want to set up meat in bucket to be sure you get maximum contact between the meat and liquid, this is the primary reason they suggest stirring, moving shaking etc, to reposition and make sure that all the meats surface is open to the cure penetrating all the meat, it would affect the brine as well, regularly stirring would most likely keep spice and seasoning mixed well to, and on a long cure every so many days would suffice or more often if able, shorter cure times, the frequency would increase.

So if it is stacked, stand the slabs up in the bucket and just mix another gallon or half a gallon to cover it.

All else fails and you want to hear it from a far more experienced person, just wait and I am sure one will chime in soon, or you can send Pop's a PM and he will surely reply, I have asked him a few questions I was unsure or confused about myself.


----------



## daveomak

Grabber70Mach said:


> OK I'm doing my first belly bacon with Pop's brine, I've read this tread in its entirety. But I'm still a little confused on some information that seems to contadict each other. I mixed 1 gallon of Pop's brine per the directions. Cut two bellies (approx 12lbs. each) into sizes that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Poured brine over bellies and weighted with a plate with water filled ziplock bag to keep them submersed. Is this correct? Some say in this thread that the brine is only good for 12lbs. of meat.


When curing meats...   Ppm nitrite is what cures the meat...    Ppm is calculated weight : weight....  156 Ppm is a general number for most stuff...    

To obtain 156 Ppm nitrite... 1 tsp. of cure #1 per every 5#'s of stuff will get you 156 Ppm nitrite....  

When doing a liquid brine, the weight of the water needs to be considered when figuring the Ppm nitrite....

Water weighs 8.35 #'s per gallon..

So if you have 2 each 12 # bellies and submerged them in 1 gallon of water.....  24#'s bellies and 8.35 #'s of water ~ 35#'s of stuff when you figure salt, sugar, cure etc.... 

Therefore, 7 tsp. cure #1 would be the safe / proper amount to add to the brine/cure...   OR   3       2  1/3 TBS. of cure #1...   my error....    Thanks Bear....

*If I'm being too technical when it comes to curing, I apologize..  Just thought folks would like to know the correct way to make a curing brine...*


----------



## n4ynu

N4YNU said:


> Grabber70Mach said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK I'm doing my first belly bacon with Pop's brine, I've read this tread in its entirety. But I'm still a little confused on some information that seems to contadict each other. I mixed 1 gallon of Pop's brine per the directions. Cut two bellies (approx 12lbs. each) into sizes that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Poured brine over bellies and weighted with a plate with water filled ziplock bag to keep them submersed. Is this correct? Some say in this thread that the brine is only good for 12lbs. of meat.
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen the same here and there, I remember 15 lbs though LOL
> 
> From what I have learned regarding this Brining/Curing Recipe of Pop's is that the weight is no matter using this liquid brine recipe as long as the meat is covered and remains submerged, in other words the larger amount of meat, the more wet brine/cure you would need to cover it and then it would be compensated for, so the wet cure is a bit different, and Pop's Wet Curing recipe is designed for a longer soak to account for the lower concentration, as well it is supposed to produce a more tender and more tasty meat in the end.
> If you have these stacked tight in there as your only using a gallon ? for all that meat, in my opinion you may want to separate the slabs, if they are stacked tight, the brine/cure should have access to most all the surface area of the slabs, if stacked then you would have issues with the even penetration of the cure and the brine in my opinion, so might want to set up meat in bucket to be sure you get maximum contact between the meat and liquid, this is the primary reason they suggest stirring, moving shaking etc, to reposition and make sure that all the meats surface is open to the cure penetrating all the meat, it would affect the brine as well, regularly stirring would most likely keep spice and seasoning mixed well to, and on a long cure every so many days would suffice or more often if able, shorter cure times, the frequency would increase.
> 
> So if it is stacked, stand the slabs up in the bucket and just mix another gallon or half a gallon to cover it.
> 
> All else fails and you want to hear it from a far more experienced person, just wait and I am sure one will chime in soon, or you can send Pop's a PM and he will surely reply, I have asked him a few questions I was unsure or confused about myself.
Click to expand...

Grabber,

If you have read Pop's Curing method, then you know that the amount of cure is less and is certainly safe, and it only applies to the water weight, not the meat weight, there is a lot of discussion regarding this, but, he used this recipe and wet brining method for a business and produced meats for sale and no one ever had issues, not to mention his recipe and method was State and Federally inspected and approved, he went through regular inspections.

If you have read that thread then you know all this, so stick to the recipe and you will have safe success and better tasting meat, if you are dry rub/curing then the game changes and you have to account for all the weight, not so with this recipe and method, more cure is not better for the meat and less cure with longer curing time as stated makes for tastier and more tender meat.

Just be careful that the meat is not stacked preventing brine/cure from having open contact to as much of the meat as possible, and try and move it as stated to make sure it all has exposure to the liquid equally if not constantly.

Many people are using this recipe and curing / brining according to it, this is why I decided to use it, for the results and for the safety, and in my opinion the simplicity, if the meat is not covered then make enough accordingly to cover meat and you are good, just make sure you pay attention to the curing times for Pop's recipe, otherwise the meat will not be cured thru and thru, and if it is over 2" thick then inject, if you follow the recipe to the letter then you will be safe and have better tasting and more tender meat, there are hundreds if not thousands using this same recipe with fantastic results as Pop had for his business all those years being inspected by the food police hehehe

You can still add spices if you need to after the brine/cure prior to cold smoking or slow cooking/smoking if you choose to, that is personal preference  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  

Follow the recipe and you are good, just mix the specified amount of cure with each gallon of water, make sure it stays submerged and not stacked where liquid cannot contact meat and you will be golden !
That is why it is so wonderful, it is silly simple !


----------



## Bearcarver

DaveOmak said:


> When curing meats...   Ppm nitrite is what cures the meat...    Ppm is calculated weight : weight....  156 Ppm is a general number for most stuff...
> 
> To obtain 156 Ppm nitrite... 1 tsp. of cure #1 per every 5#'s of stuff will get you 156 Ppm nitrite....
> 
> When doing a liquid brine, the weight of the water needs to be considered when figuring the Ppm nitrite....
> 
> Water weighs 8.35 #'s per gallon..
> 
> So if you have 2 each 12 # bellies and submerged them in 1 gallon of water.....  24#'s bellies and 8.35 #'s of water ~ 35#'s of stuff when you figure salt, sugar, cure etc....
> 
> *Therefore, 7 tsp. cure #1 would be the safe / proper amount to add to the brine/cure...   OR 3 1/3 TBS. of cure #1...*


I thought 1 TBS = 3 tsp.

Bear


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## n4ynu

If you have read Pop's Curing method, then you know that the amount of cure is less and is certainly safe, and it only applies to the water weight, not the meat weight, there is a lot of discussion regarding this, but, he used this recipe and wet brining method for a business and produced meats for sale and no one ever had issues, not to mention his recipe and method was State and Federally inspected and approved, he went through regular inspections.

If you have read that thread then you know all this 


N4YNU said:


> N4YNU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabber70Mach said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK I'm doing my first belly bacon with Pop's brine, I've read this tread in its entirety. But I'm still a little confused on some information that seems to contadict each other. I mixed 1 gallon of Pop's brine per the directions. Cut two bellies (approx 12lbs. each) into sizes that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Poured brine over bellies and weighted with a plate with water filled ziplock bag to keep them submersed. Is this correct? Some say in this thread that the brine is only good for 12lbs. of meat.
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen the same here and there, I remember 15 lbs though LOL
> 
> From what I have learned regarding this Brining/Curing Recipe of Pop's is that the weight is no matter using this liquid brine recipe as long as the meat is covered and remains submerged, in other words the larger amount of meat, the more wet brine/cure you would need to cover it and then it would be compensated for, so the wet cure is a bit different, and Pop's Wet Curing recipe is designed for a longer soak to account for the lower concentration, as well it is supposed to produce a more tender and more tasty meat in the end.
> If you have these stacked tight in there as your only using a gallon ? for all that meat, in my opinion you may want to separate the slabs, if they are stacked tight, the brine/cure should have access to most all the surface area of the slabs, if stacked then you would have issues with the even penetration of the cure and the brine in my opinion, so might want to set up meat in bucket to be sure you get maximum contact between the meat and liquid, this is the primary reason they suggest stirring, moving shaking etc, to reposition and make sure that all the meats surface is open to the cure penetrating all the meat, it would affect the brine as well, regularly stirring would most likely keep spice and seasoning mixed well to, and on a long cure every so many days would suffice or more often if able, shorter cure times, the frequency would increase.
> 
> So if it is stacked, stand the slabs up in the bucket and just mix another gallon or half a gallon to cover it.
> 
> All else fails and you want to hear it from a far more experienced person, just wait and I am sure one will chime in soon, or you can send Pop's a PM and he will surely reply, I have asked him a few questions I was unsure or confused about myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grabber,
> 
> If you have read Pop's Curing method, then you know that the amount of cure is less and is certainly safe, and it only applies to the water weight, not the meat weight, there is a lot of discussion regarding this, but, he used this recipe and wet brining method for a business and produced meats for sale and no one ever had issues, not to mention his recipe and method was State and Federally inspected and approved, he went through regular inspections.
> 
> If you have read that thread then you know all this, so stick to the recipe and you will have safe success and better tasting meat, if you are dry rub/curing then the game changes and you have to account for all the weight, not so with this recipe and method, more cure is not better for the meat and less cure with longer curing time as stated makes for tastier and more tender meat.
> 
> Just be careful that the meat is not stacked preventing brine/cure from having open contact to as much of the meat as possible, and try and move it as stated to make sure it all has exposure to the liquid equally if not constantly.
> 
> Many people are using this recipe and curing / brining according to it, this is why I decided to use it, for the results and for the safety, and in my opinion the simplicity, if the meat is not covered then make enough accordingly to cover meat and you are good, just make sure you pay attention to the curing times for Pop's recipe, otherwise the meat will not be cured thru and thru, and if it is over 2" thick then inject, if you follow the recipe to the letter then you will be safe and have better tasting and more tender meat, there are hundreds if not thousands using this same recipe with fantastic results as Pop had for his business all those years being inspected by the food police hehehe
> 
> You can still add spices if you need to after the brine/cure prior to cold smoking or slow cooking/smoking if you choose to, that is personal preference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the recipe and you are good, just mix the specified amount of cure with each gallon of water, make sure it stays submerged and not stacked where liquid cannot contact meat and you will be golden !
> That is why it is so wonderful, it is silly simple !
Click to expand...

Grabber

Stick to the recipe  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 




        
Pops6927's Wet Curing Brine
 
real simple curing brine:

 for every 1 gallon of water, add:

1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)

1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]

1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix

1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt

stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in

weight down with a partially filled 1 qt or 1 gal. ziploc bag or bags to keep meat immersed

Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.

You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters

It works and has worked and the Food Inspectors approved it, and it is still working for thousands.

Here is the question from the Thread :


biteme7951





  
offline

207 Posts. Joined 3/2010
Location: Michigan
Points: 11

Pops,

Is there a general guideline as to the ratio of meat to brine??  I want to make sure that I have mixed enough brine, but don't want to mix up way more than I need either.

Thanks for all your posts...they have helped me a lot!!!

Barry.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Smokin Al's Reply XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And here is a Pasted answer from Al first and then Pop's on the subject :
 


SmokinAl
OTBS & Premier member





  
offline

23,236 Posts. Joined 6/2009
Location: Central Florida (Sebring)
Points: 1175

There is no ratio, you just have to use enough to completely submerge the meat. The only ratio is cure to water . If you can cover the meat with 1 gallon, then you only need enough cure for 1 gallon.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX And POPS Reply XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX








Pops6927
OTBS, SMF Premier Member, Resident Meathead, Trusted Authority





  
offline

5,789 Posts. Joined 7/2008
Location: Fort Worth, Tx.
Points: 192

SmokinAl is 100% correct; mix up one gallon, if that's not enough mix up either a half or another whole gallon as needed.  I just did two 4lb. fryers in a 5 gal. bucket and used two gallons, one didn't cover them sufficiently, you want to use that general concept for an indicator.

A little salt and sugar, a bit of cure and a gallon of water makes magic in a bucket!

*Pops §§  *






  




*That should take care of the issue for you Grabber, two very experienced people, of which, one was the user of the recipe in a family business that sold meats to people every day, case closed *


----------



## TKOBBQ1

Thanks all, I'll continue with my current batch.


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## n4ynu

Grabber70Mach said:


> Thanks all, I'll continue with my current batch.


Can't wait to hear the results !

I have not done any Bacon yet, and me and the Wife LOVE Bacon


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## n4ynu

Bearcarver said:


> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When curing meats...   Ppm nitrite is what cures the meat...    Ppm is calculated weight : weight....  156 Ppm is a general number for most stuff...
> 
> To obtain 156 Ppm nitrite... 1 tsp. of cure #1 per every 5#'s of stuff will get you 156 Ppm nitrite....
> 
> When doing a liquid brine, the weight of the water needs to be considered when figuring the Ppm nitrite....
> 
> Water weighs 8.35 #'s per gallon..
> 
> So if you have 2 each 12 # bellies and submerged them in 1 gallon of water.....  24#'s bellies and 8.35 #'s of water ~ 35#'s of stuff when you figure salt, sugar, cure etc....
> 
> *Therefore, 7 tsp. cure #1 would be the safe / proper amount to add to the brine/cure...   OR 3 1/3 TBS. of cure #1...*
> 
> 
> 
> I thought 1 TBS = 3 tsp.
> 
> Bear
Click to expand...

Bear is on point


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## n4ynu

DaveOmak said:


> Grabber70Mach said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK I'm doing my first belly bacon with Pop's brine, I've read this tread in its entirety. But I'm still a little confused on some information that seems to contadict each other. I mixed 1 gallon of Pop's brine per the directions. Cut two bellies (approx 12lbs. each) into sizes that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Poured brine over bellies and weighted with a plate with water filled ziplock bag to keep them submersed. Is this correct? Some say in this thread that the brine is only good for 12lbs. of meat.
> 
> 
> 
> When curing meats...   Ppm nitrite is what cures the meat...    Ppm is calculated weight : weight....  156 Ppm is a general number for most stuff...
> 
> To obtain 156 Ppm nitrite... 1 tsp. of cure #1 per every 5#'s of stuff will get you 156 Ppm nitrite....
> 
> When doing a liquid brine, the weight of the water needs to be considered when figuring the Ppm nitrite....
> 
> Water weighs 8.35 #'s per gallon..
> 
> So if you have 2 each 12 # bellies and submerged them in 1 gallon of water.....  24#'s bellies and 8.35 #'s of water ~ 35#'s of stuff when you figure salt, sugar, cure etc....
> 
> Therefore, 7 tsp. cure #1 would be the safe / proper amount to add to the brine/cure...   OR   3       2  1/3 TBS. of cure #1...   my error....    Thanks Bear....
> 
> *If I'm being too technical when it comes to curing, I apologize..  Just thought folks would like to know the correct way to make a curing brine...*
Click to expand...

Dave,

I like the math lessons, seriously, I am preparing to convert all my measurements to weight, I read your posts on the measurements, and others of course as well, but I appreciate the math and figures, it is helping me get all this mess in my head in order and re-acclimated, I have dealt with figures and math my whole life but never cooking ingredients, I mean I know what a TBS is and so on, but not all this per pound, per gallon and conversions from 1 TBS and how many TSP it is and so on and on, so no offense here Sir, your posts help me a lot !


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## n4ynu

RadioGuy said:


> N4YNU,
> 
> You are correct about measuring the salt. I have used Pops brine with great results. I weigh all my dry ingredients to insure consistency. I use kosher or sea salt. Through tasting and trials I use 125g salt, 90g white sugar and 100g Brown sugar.
> 
> Good luck, nice to see another amateur radio op too!
> 
> RG


RG

I am pleasantly surprised to find more than a few of us in here, pretty cool, I am getting ready here soon to set my equipment back up in the house, we have been renovating, so equipment got stashed until clean air is secure LOL 

73's


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## n4ynu

wrestler75 said:


> I made this recipe again and substituted slenda brown sugar for regular and added maple extract. The fry test was AMAZING....[GALLERY="media, 482284"][/GALLERY][/quote]
> That looks very very tasty, cannot wait to do some Bacon !  [img]https://statich.smokingmeatforums.com/smilies/yahoo.gif


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## smoking4fun

So after reading through all 19 pages (so far) of this thread, I have a question on the addition of "other" add-ons, such as garlic/onion/spices...and I apologize if it was already covered, I may have formulated the question AFTER I read the part of the thread that addressed this...if I want some spice added to the brine, should I add powdered pepper (such as powdered cayenne/anch/etc.) or fresh garlic/fresh onion/fresh peppers?  Or does it matter whether it is powered or fresh?


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## crankybuzzard

smoking4fun said:


> So after reading through all 19 pages (so far) of this thread, I have a question on the addition of "other" add-ons, such as garlic/onion/spices...and I apologize if it was already covered, I may have formulated the question AFTER I read the part of the thread that addressed this...if I want some spice added to the brine, should I add powdered pepper (such as powdered cayenne/anch/etc.) or fresh garlic/fresh onion/fresh peppers?  Or does it matter whether it is powered or fresh?


I use fresh herbs, crushed garlic, and crushed peppercorns quite often in this brine.


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## idahomuskrat

Hey Pops was wondering if the ten day cure for buckboard bacon would work for a whole brisket I am wanting to turn into beef bacon or if I need to cure it longer?


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## remsr

Holly molly all I will retain of all this technical information is pops simple instructions and the fact that he used this recipe in a business that was inspected and approved regularly. Everything else is confusing and difficult to understand for me. When I read all that technical stuff it scares the heck out of me, Just saying. 

Randy,


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## remsr

My only question that requires a yes or no is, can I use Himalayan salt in place of  Kosher or sea salt?


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## daveomak

REMSR said:


> Holly molly all I will retain of all this technical information is pops simple instructions and the fact that he used this recipe in a business that was inspected and approved regularly. Everything else is confusing and difficult to understand for me. When I read all that technical stuff it scares the heck out of me, Just saying.
> 
> Randy,


Randy, morning.....  One thing about Pop's method....  this is an extrapolation from a method that cured probably 2-300 #'s of meat in a barrel or tote...      The meat amount that was placed in the container was fairly constant and the cure/brine added to the container was fairly constant..    They didn't add 100#'s one week then add 300#'s the next week using the same amount of cure/brine mix...

Not understanding the theory behind curing should scare the heck out of you....   1 level tsp. of cure #1 per 5#'s of stuff is simple enough...  and very safe....  and will cure most everything properly and within safe limits...   including bacon...   may not be exactly to USDA specification but neither is using Morton's TQ when it comes to curing bacon...  but it's safe...  

Pop's method is good and it's safe...  it's a great starting point for folks starting out in curing meats...


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## r2 builders

Having not brined before I had one question. How do you keep the meat cold enough for safety. Do you add ice,  keep it in the fridge or none of the above?


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## dirtsailor2003

r2 Builders said:


> Having not brined before I had one question. How do you keep the meat cold enough for safety. Do you add ice,  keep it in the fridge or none of the above?



You need to keep it in the fridge during the curing process.


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## daveomak

38-40 deg. F is a very good temp...     shoot for that range......


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## r2 builders

Thanks for the response. 
I will keep  it cool.


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## remsr

Yah I do understand this I respect cure and it's ability to kill me like I respect electricity and it's ability to kill me so I adhere to simple cautions, like keep it cold I keep it at around 34 degrees, inject anything over 2' thick so that it cures inside out as well as outside in and inject in and around bones, be mindful of open air exposure. I also go with the heaping table spoon of cure rather than a level one. seems to work just fine. don't know if I will ever experiment beyond that, just like I wouldn't experiment with electricity by standing in water messing with live wires. If I ever do decide to experiment with cures You would be one of the people I would come to for advice. 
thank you for your concerns they are always appreciated.

Randy,


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## Bearcarver

r2 Builders said:


> Having not brined before I had one question. How do you keep the meat cold enough for safety. Do you add ice, keep it in the fridge or none of the above?





REMSR said:


> Yah I do understand this I respect cure and it's ability to kill me like I respect electricity and it's ability to kill me so I adhere to simple cautions, like keep it cold I keep it at around 34 degrees, inject anything over 2' thick so that it cures inside out as well as outside in and inject in and around bones, be mindful of open air exposure. I also go with the heaping table spoon of cure rather than a level one. seems to work just fine. don't know if I will ever experiment beyond that, just like I wouldn't experiment with electricity by standing in water messing with live wires. If I ever do decide to experiment with cures You would be one of the people I would come to for advice.
> thank you for your concerns they are always appreciated.
> 
> Randy,


r2 and Randy,

I don't Brine cure--I Dry cure,

However below is a link that shows how I keep my Fridge at the right Temp.

I keep mine at 37°, because that is dead center between the Temps " 34° and 40° " that most places I've read are the high & low limits.

Below 34° is said to slow the curing, and over 40° is not recommended.

My Fridge method:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/238797/curing-fridge-set-up-bear-s-method

Hope that Helps,

Bear


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## remsr

That's a really good method. Two of my thee refrigerators have didgetal thermometers on the out side that measure the temperature of the air in the refrigerator.  The one I use for brining and holding before and after smoking is about 35 years old and works great but has no such fancy thermometers on the outside so I will be using your method of detemening actual temp and regulating it to 37 degrees the next time I brine which will be as soon as I can get all the leaves cleaned up from my yard.


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## Bearcarver

REMSR said:


> That's a really good method. Two of my thee refrigerators have didgetal thermometers on the out side that measure the temperature of the air in the refrigerator. The one I use for brining and holding before and after smoking is about 35 years old and works great but has no such fancy thermometers on the outside so I will be using your method of detemening actual temp and regulating it to 37 degrees the next time I brine which will be as soon as I can get all the leaves cleaned up from my yard.


Those fancy Digital Therms on the doors are not to be trusted.

When we got this huge new French door Fridge-Freezer, the one we kept was the third one we had delivered due to wrong readings.

I put a couple accurate therms in the first one, and it was 3° off of the Digital reading.

I did the same thing on the second one, and it was only 2° off, but it also had a minimum setting of 34°, and with the 2° off, that meant the minimum temp I could get was 36°.

They sent a Tech out, and he shot the interior back wall of the Fridge & it was only 1° off.

I told him "if you can figure out how we can get all my food inside the back wall, I'll keep it, but if not, then you can take it back."

The third one I got was Dead on & the Minimum setting was 33°.  Finally a keeper!!  We love it !!!

That Fridge is not the one I usually use to cure meat, but if I want my food to be in a 34° Fridge, I don't want it to be in a 37° Fridge.

So I don't trust Digital Read-outs in doors.

Bear


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## mdgirlinfl

I have a belly cut into thirds and want to try this awesomely popular wet cure. I want to get some good maple flavor in my bacon.  I have tried reading though the posts. But I'll be honest there are so many. I even tried searching the post for "Maple" and didn't see the answer to my question. I have maple sugar and maple syrup. If is use maple sugar, do I substitute equal amount for the regular or brown sugar?  Will that provide enough maple flavor or do I need to add grade B syrup?
Thanks. I can't wait to try this method!


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## foamheart

I don't know this for a fact, but............... The only time I have experienced ropying was when I used maple syrup. I think its a glucose/sucose thingie but I don't know that.

If you want the maple taste, depending upon the brine or wet cure size, try some maple extract. You can also use maple oil but its a bit more expensive and used more in baking where alcohol extracts seems to evaporate and lose their punch.

'Couple a TBS should do fine. Then next time you can adjust from your experience. 

Yes, extract has no maple taste, but is all aroma. If your nose tells your mouth its smells maple, your mouth believes what the nose says.


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## mdgirlinfl

@foamheart "ropying"?


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## remsr

Guess I'm not that concerned about the the digital read outs accuracy on the refrigerators holding our left overs, condiments veggies and such, 0ne of them has nothing but beer and soft drinks in the refrigerator side. The one I am concerned with is the one Ai use for bringing. That's the 35 year old work horse I use. 
Randy,


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## Bearcarver

REMSR said:


> Guess I'm not that concerned about the the digital read outs accuracy on the refrigerators holding our left overs, condiments veggies and such, 0ne of them has nothing but beer and soft drinks in the refrigerator side. The one I am concerned with is the one Ai use for bringing. That's the 35 year old work horse I use.
> Randy,


Exactly---That's why I keep the Maverick in my Curing Fridge, and keep it between 36° and 38° (Target 37°). (A Cheapo from Home Depot)

I'm not usually Picky on my Kitchen Fridge, but I want a brand new French Door Fridge to be accurate enough to get exactly what I want, when I want it to, especially when I'm paying $2,000 for it !!!

Since then, I've kept it at;

Fridge-------36°

Freezer------0°

Holds that very nicely, without any Hassle.

Bear


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## dr k

REMSR said:


> Guess I'm not that concerned about the the digital read outs accuracy on the refrigerators holding our left overs, condiments veggies and such, 0ne of them has nothing but beer and soft drinks in the refrigerator side. The one I am concerned with is the one Ai use for bringing. That's the 35 year old work horse I use.
> Randy,


My parents finally got rid of their 54 year old GE fridge. They got it in 1962 when they got married. It worked perfectly for their spare beer fridge. The under carriage was disintegrating and leaking water. There's a recycling program for old inefficient fridge/freezers with the utility company. If the fridge/freezer still cools, they'll pick it up and mail you a $50.00 check. 
-Kurt


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## Bearcarver

Dr K said:


> My parents finally got rid of their 54 year old GE fridge. They got it in 1962 when they got married. It worked perfectly for their spare beer fridge. The under carriage was disintegrating and leaking water. There's a recycling program for old inefficient fridge/freezers with the utility company. If the fridge/freezer still cools, they'll pick it up and mail you a $50.00 check.
> -Kurt


We have something like that here too, but I think it's only $25.

I learned many years ago (1980s) not to keep an old Fridge too long.

Had one that was noisy, wasn't leaking, but seemed to be running too long.

Put up with that for about 2 years.

Finally got rid of it & got a new one, and my monthly Electric Bill went down about $20 per month.

That $20 per month would have nearly paid for that new one.

Bear


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## crankybuzzard

MDGirlinFL said:


> @foamheart "ropying"?


He was referring to ropy or stringy curing brine.  Sometimes when you are wet curing meats, your curing bath itself can become ropy or stringy.  It has been attributed to the sucrose, etc. that some add to the bath as another flavoring agent.

If that happens, and it doesn't real often, you can usually dump the brine, rinse your meat, and start with a new batch.  Unless it smells bad, then that's a different story...


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## daveomak

RopyStringyBrine1.jpg



__ daveomak
__ May 17, 2016





..













RopyStringyBrine2.jpg



__ daveomak
__ May 17, 2016


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## crankybuzzard

Thanks Dave!   I didn't have that pic at work!


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## foamheart

DaveOmak said:


> RopyStringyBrine1.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ daveomak
> __ May 17, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RopyStringyBrine2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ daveomak
> __ May 17, 2016





CrankyBuzzard said:


> Thanks Dave! I didn't have that pic at work!


You guys always got my back...........


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## remsr

Thanks Kurt, But I have no intention of getting rid of my 35 year old work horse we have gone through about 3 refrigerators and still this old ugly refrigerator works great for brining and holding before and after smoking. 
Randy, 
PS If it ever ever does crap out I think I'll turn it into a cold  smoker.


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## atomic dog

I have been making enjoying smoked and occasional wet cured meat for years.  I think it was bearcarver that actually convinced me an electric smoker was the way to go years ago now.  I have been hooked ever since. 

My wet curing is limited to a few chickens and pork loin on rare occasion.  Always comes out good and always use 1tsp/5lb.  But I have a couple questions to be honest...

-What affect would increasing the prague powder#1 from 1 tsp per 5lb meat to 3 tsp?  I have never done it, but maybe somebody has experimented with curing salt (within safe limits) and might know.  Does it change the texture, flavor, color?  I am basically asking what affect pops recipe would do differently.

-I always make my brine in 1 gallon form.  So for a 5lb pork loin I would always use 1 tsp of curing salt in that gallon of water (along with the salt, sugar and maple syrup and spices for ham).  What would happen is I only used 1/2 gallon of water, half the salt and sugars but still use the 1 tsp per 5lb rule? 

-I have never dry cured, but it would seem easier for me to rub and bag.  If I mixed 1/3 of sugar, 1/3 cup salt and 1 tsp of prague powder #1 and rubbed it over a 5lb pork loin and bagged it, would I get the same results as wet curing with the same ratios?

What I am trying to wrap my brain around is wet and dry curing seem to use very similar ratios of prague powder.  So within reason does diluting the curing salt in water not have an affect?  These things have popped into my head from time to time.  I figured II would finally ask.


----------



## foamheart

Atomic Dog said:


> I have been making enjoying smoked and occasional wet cured meat for years.  I think it was bearcarver that actually convinced me an electric smoker was the way to go years ago now.  I have been hooked ever since.
> 
> My wet curing is limited to a few chickens and pork loin on rare occasion.  Always comes out good and always use 1tsp/5lb.  But I have a couple questions to be honest...
> 
> -What affect would increasing the prague powder#1 from 1 tsp per 5lb meat to 3 tsp?  I have never done it, but maybe somebody has experimented with curing salt (within safe limits) and might know.  Does it change the texture, flavor, color?  I am basically asking what affect pops recipe would do differently.
> 
> -I always make my brine in 1 gallon form.  So for a 5lb pork loin I would always use 1 tsp of curing salt in that gallon of water (along with the salt, sugar and maple syrup and spices for ham).  What would happen is I only used 1/2 gallon of water, half the salt and sugars but still use the 1 tsp per 5lb rule?
> 
> -I have never dry cured, but it would seem easier for me to rub and bag.  If I mixed 1/3 of sugar, 1/3 cup salt and 1 tsp of prague powder #1 and rubbed it over a 5lb pork loin and bagged it, would I get the same results as wet curing with the same ratios?
> 
> What I am trying to wrap my brain around is wet and dry curing seem to use very similar ratios of prague powder.  So within reason does diluting the curing salt in water not have an affect?  These things have popped into my head from time to time.  I figured II would finally ask.


LOL... its time a year I see. This comes around at least yearly and heated discussions most often evolve. I know you are just wondering, I know you'll never do it but just want an idea, etc..... The site unless its changed, has always stood by the established safe curing standards. That is pretty much it. If you only use 1/2 the gallon of water then reduce the cure accordingly. You can NOT safely venture off into new and uncharted waters. Cure is a nitrate/nitrite and can be deadly, Seriously, deadly, but more commonly sickening if not used properly. The site only promotes the safe and approved methods only. 

We leave those other type things to others, the wild and adventurous curers and smokers.

We only recommend/discuss the safe and approved methods issued by the manufacturer or the government. 

Please don't take offense, it has nothing to do with you personally. But it only promotes hurt feeling and it shows an improper way to others who might attempt it, which the site does NOT agree with. So its just a mote point. Right, wrong, better, worse, that's all up to you if you are wild and adventurous. BUT the site only uses and discusses, the manufacturers and government's suggested curing processes.

Its not worth the possiblity of ill feelings and the chance someone might mistakenly use a wrong ratio and cause illness to family or friends. Its just not worth it.

I welcome management to step in at any time if this as changed and straighten me out.


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## atomic dog

Wow you didn't read my questions very well and went off on some wild rant about the lethality of curing salt, which I am well aware of.  

I use LESS prague powder than this recipe listed.  I was asking if anybody knew what I would experience with the higher amount listed here.  Again, I normally use less.

I am trying to understand if I haved the water in my cure recipe (which calls for 1 tsp per gallon), would I still use the same amount of curing salt or half that also.  I assume yes, but am not sure on that one.  But even if I did it is still well within the safety limits mentioned by the thread starter.

My last question was simply asking if I use the rule of 1 tsp per 5 pounds of meat dry rubbing am I OK.  As I have never done dry rub cure I am making sure.

And let me just point out that the thread starter ever says one can experiment with the amount of cure.  So what is up with you crawling up my butt?

WHatever dude.  Have a nice day.


----------



## remsr

Dang! Someone needs a hug. I know Fomeheart well enough to know he had no intention of upsetting you. He most likely miss understood you. I don't know much about curing as I am just starting but if I did I wouldn't answer your questions based on your remarks to someone one who was trying to help. Fomeheart is my go to for wet curing and Bear is my go to for dry cure although I keep an open mind to all suggestions. I hope this is not received as crawling up your butt as that is not my intention I just want to feel free to communicate on the forms without fear of someone becoming up set with the things I say.
Randy,


----------



## dr k

Atomic Dog said:


> I have been making enjoying smoked and occasional wet cured meat for years.  I think it was bearcarver that actually convinced me an electric smoker was the way to go years ago now.  I have been hooked ever since.
> 
> My wet curing is limited to a few chickens and pork loin on rare occasion.  Always comes out good and always use 1tsp/5lb.  But I have a couple questions to be honest...
> 
> -What affect would increasing the prague powder#1 from 1 tsp per 5lb meat to 3 tsp?  I have never done it, but maybe somebody has experimented with curing salt (within safe limits) and might know.  Does it change the texture, flavor, color?  I am basically asking what affect pops recipe would do differently.
> 
> -I always make my brine in 1 gallon form.  So for a 5lb pork loin I would always use 1 tsp of curing salt in that gallon of water (along with the salt, sugar and maple syrup and spices for ham).  What would happen is I only used 1/2 gallon of water, half the salt and sugars but still use the 1 tsp per 5lb rule?
> 
> -I have never dry cured, but it would seem easier for me to rub and bag.  If I mixed 1/3 of sugar, 1/3 cup salt and 1 tsp of prague powder #1 and rubbed it over a 5lb pork loin and bagged it, would I get the same results as wet curing with the same ratios?
> 
> What I am trying to wrap my brain around is wet and dry curing seem to use very similar ratios of prague powder.  So within reason does diluting the curing salt in water not have an affect?  These things have popped into my head from time to time.  I figured II would finally ask.


Pink salt cure #1 is 6.25 % nitrite and is marked as being 24lbs. / 100 gal. water=3.84/oz./gal.  A rounded TBSP is about 18 grams for Pop's wet cure.  That is one sixth of the allowable amount.  So the longer curing times that Pop's notes for his recipe is based on his PPM nitrite solution.  I've seen pork bellies in commercial settings be cured and smoked and on the shelf in four days using (wet curing/injecting) directions on the bag.  I guess we are curing the mass of the water and what ever covers cures whether a chicken wing or boneless pork loin.  If changing PPM then that changes duration.  I just got a $15 gm./oz. digital scale that is accurate (all my marked golf discs in grams from the factory match the scale.)  If I try dry curing I'll be weighing proteins and then figure cure and seasonings (everything by grams) and not using tsp/Tbsp.  Pop's is too easy and great so if I have a half loin I'll make a half gallon wet cure in my oval crockpot stoneware with 1.5 tsp. pink salt #1.  I don't know if increasing cure PPM is exactly related to duration in liquid/dry cures.  Also, I do not know how the 6.25% pink salt #1 influences the saltiness of the protein compared to the added salt to the cure.  Pop's wet cure is very safe and effective for his durations at 1 rounded TBSP/gal. water.  I can do the math for conversions but I'm not a chemist so I'll stick with tried and true directions.     

-Kurt


----------



## atomic dog

Dr K said:


> Pink salt cure #1 is 6.25 % nitrite and is marked as being 24lbs. / 100 gal. water=3.84/oz./gal.  A rounded TBSP is about 18 grams for Pop's wet cure.  That is one sixth of the allowable amount.  So the longer curing times that Pop's notes for his recipe is based on his PPM nitrite solution.  I've seen pork bellies in commercial settings be cured and smoked and on the shelf in four days using (wet curing/injecting) directions on the bag.  I guess we are curing the mass of the water and what ever covers cures whether a chicken wing or boneless pork loin.  If changing PPM then that changes duration.  I just got a $15 gm./oz. digital scale that is accurate (all my marked golf discs in grams from the factory match the scale.)  If I try dry curing I'll be weighing proteins and then figure cure and seasonings (everything by grams) and not using tsp/Tbsp.  Pop's is too easy and great so if I have a half loin I'll make a half gallon wet cure in my oval crockpot stoneware with 1.5 tsp. pink salt #1.  I don't know if increasing cure PPM is exactly related to duration in liquid/dry cures.  Also, I do not know how the 6.25% pink salt #1 influences the saltiness of the protein compared to the added salt to the cure.  Pop's wet cure is very safe and effective for his durations at 1 rounded TBSP/gal. water.  I can do the math for conversions but I'm not a chemist so I'll stick with tried and true directions.
> 
> -Kurt


Ohh OK. Thank you @Dr K So the effect is cure time, So that explains the long long cure times I experienced with my lower curing salt recipe.  I'm kind of agreeing with you that pops recipe is a no brainer and easy.  I have a couple half loins ironically, and am going to try pops.  I am curious if the texture or color will be any different with the higher (but still way safe) amount curing salt pops uses.  Guess I will find out.

I would really like to try dry curing (just to see how it goes), but as I have no experience I think I will just stick with a wet cure for the assorted discount meats I picked up at the grocery store.


----------



## pilch

Hey Atomic Dog, make the Bearcarver your friend and learn dry curing as well.

I've only been around a short while but I use both Pop's  for wet and the Bears for dry curing, Pop's for leg & shoulder hams and Bear's dry for belly and small pieces of meat.

Like everyone else I've had to contact Pop with my problems as well as the Bear and I can assure you that these guys are a power of help.

Get them smokers fired up for Christmas.

Cheers from Down Under.


----------



## smoking coastie

Great recipe! Made it with a slab of belly I got at Costco. For my second batch I am substituting a quart of maple syrup for some of the water and brown sugar.













20161120_175756.jpg



__ smoking coastie
__ Dec 11, 2016


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## smoker21

Looking great Smoking Coastie!

JD


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## mkriet

Pops6927 said:


> SmokinAl is 100% correct; mix up one gallon, if that's not enough mix up either a half or another whole gallon as needed.  I just did two 4lb. fryers in a 5 gal. bucket and used two gallons, one didn't cover them sufficiently, if you want to use that general concept for an indicator.
> 
> A little salt and sugar, a bit of cure and a gallon of water makes magic in a bucket!



I'm curious, what does cured chicken and/or turkey taste like? Is it more like bacon or something?


----------



## foamheart

mkriet said:


> I'm curious, what does cured chicken and/or turkey taste like? Is it more like bacon or something?


Yes and no.... LOL. Sometimes folks get cured confused with brined. Or that's how I see it. Cured poultry normally involves cure added to a brine and takes a slightly longer brine time. This slightly longer brine time will with the cure will develop a slight cured or bacon taste.

I brine cure bigger birds to insure safety because of the increased smoking time at lower temperatures to insure a tender finished products. 

I brine a lot of chickens, no not cure, just brine. It makes people ask how I get it so juicy, Low & slow, and a 24/36 hour brine. 

If I over brine poultry I find it significantly changes the density. Everyone here says it makes the meat mushie, Me, I find it tuffens the meat. It nearly always changes density on cured turkeys.

Once you brine or cure poultry you'll never be able to just smoke on again. LOL I did a plain smoke for over 30 years. I could come home from work slap one on the smoker and have smoked chicken for supper. No muss, no fuss. The I learned here about brining, I actually have friends when invited to supper want to know if the smoked chicken was brined or not....LOL 

Try it both ways and see what you think. Chickens are great to pactice on. I positively believe that a perfectly smoked chicken is a thing to serve with pride. Least expensive meat, easiest to do, and the most tasteful meat to serve.

Back to your question, if it a brine cured bird it will have a bacon/hammy flavor the longer cured the more significant the taste. A standard Brown sugar/ sugar/ salt brine with your choice of  enhancements will not be hammy, but it will be juicy tender and delicious while reflecting the flavors you have chosen to enhance the flavors. Dryed herbs and spiced are best steeped to unlock the most flavor.

PS: One of the most important parts of brining poultry is insuring the formation of a a proper pellicle. Usually I plan for a 24/36 hour brine and a 12 to 24 hours rest uncovered in the reefer to form the pellicle. I have also formed the pellicle with a fan.


----------



## mkriet

Foamheart said:


> Yes and no.... LOL. Sometimes folks get cured confused with brined. Or that's how I see it. Cured poultry normally involves cure added to a brine and takes a slightly longer brine time. This slightly longer brine time will with the cure will develop a slight cured or bacon taste.
> 
> I brine cure bigger birds to insure safety because of the increased smoking time at lower temperatures to insure a tender finished products.
> 
> I brine a lot of chickens, no not cure, just brine. It makes people ask how I get it so juicy, Low & slow, and a 24/36 hour brine.
> 
> If I over brine poultry I find it significantly changes the density. Everyone here says it makes the meat mushie, Me, I find it tuffens the meat. It nearly always changes density on cured turkeys.
> 
> Once you brine or cure poultry you'll never be able to just smoke on again. LOL I did a plain smoke for over 30 years. I could come home from work slap one on the smoker and have smoked chicken for supper. No muss, no fuss. The I learned here about brining, I actually have friends when invited to supper want to know if the smoked chicken was brined or not....LOL
> 
> Try it both ways and see what you think. Chickens are great to pactice on. I positively believe that a perfectly smoked chicken is a thing to serve with pride. Least expensive meat, easiest to do, and the most tasteful meat to serve.
> 
> Back to your question, if it a brine cured bird it will have a bacon/hammy flavor the longer cured the more significant the taste. A standard Brown sugar/ sugar/ salt brine with your choice of  enhancements will not be hammy, but it will be juicy tender and delicious while reflecting the flavors you have chosen to enhance the flavors. Dryed herbs and spiced are best steeped to unlock the most flavor.
> 
> PS: One of the most important parts of brining poultry is insuring the formation of a a proper pellicle. Usually I plan for a 24/36 hour brine and a 12 to 24 hours rest uncovered in the reefer to form the pellicle. I have also formed the pellicle with a fan.





Pops6927 said:


> SmokinAl is 100% correct; mix up one gallon, if that's not enough mix up either a half or another whole gallon as needed.  I just did two 4lb. fryers in a 5 gal. bucket and used two gallons, one didn't cover them sufficiently, if you want to use that general concept for an indicator.
> 
> A little salt and sugar, a bit of cure and a gallon of water makes magic in a bucket!



I'm curious, what does cured chicken and/or turkey taste like? 

Thank you sir.   I just smoked my first turkey this weekend,  no brine,  just injected it and threw it on the smoker.   Turned out amazing.   I'm surprised there is a way to improve on that since this was the best turkey I've ever had.  Nevertheless, I'm gonna have to try curing one.   I might start with a chicken and take it from there. 

Thank you again for the detailed response.


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## remsr

Yah! Does chicken, turkey and beef taste like ham or bacon when you cure with sodium nitrate? And can you actually put it directly in a sausage mix? And what is the advantage or disadvantage of dry cure,  compared to wet brine?  Also is there any benefit to using TQ instead of pink salt? I have both plus sometihing called Sweeter then Sweet that I got from my butcher, I was told that it was much like TQ. 
I used that once to make some bacon that didn't turn out because I over cooked it to a internal temp of 150, as instructed by my butcher, it did look smelled and tasted like bacon, but It fryed up like jerky. The TQ I have never used yet!
I'm asking these questions because I would like to try making bacon again and some sausages this winter and maybe brine some chicken quarters and thighs in somting other than a salt and sugar brine that works but could be better. Wet brining is easy for me but I am interested in dry cureing as well if ther is a benigit. 
Oh! I would like to make some corned beef or pastrami. This winter all input would be appreciated.

Randy,


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## daveomak

REMSR, morning....   The difference between TQ and Cure #1.....

When you add Cure #1 at the recommended rate of 1 tsp. per 5#'s of meat, you are adding 0.25% salt and you add more salt to your personal preference.... 

When adding TQ at the recommended rates.....

To ground meats for sausage, 1.5 tsp. per pound is recommended...  1.5 tsp weighs approx. 7.5 grams and is about 98% salt... I'm not sure how much or if any sugar is in it....  I don't use it....  Sooo, that's about 1.7% salt...  You usually  do not want to add more salt to your product..  It may be too salty...

To whole muscle products like loin for Canadian bacon, 1 TBS. or 3 tsp. are added per pound...  that's about 3.5% salt...   That's close to the recommended rate for drying / aging  meats...


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## Bearcarver

REMSR said:


> Yah! Does chicken, turkey and beef taste like ham or bacon when you cure with sodium nitrate? And can you actually put it directly in a sausage mix? And what is the advantage or disadvantage of dry cure, compared to wet brine? Also is there any benefit to using TQ instead of pink salt? I have both plus sometihing called Sweeter then Sweet that I got from my butcher, I was told that it was much like TQ.
> I used that once to make some bacon that didn't turn out because I over cooked it to a internal temp of 150, as instructed by my butcher, it did look smelled and tasted like bacon, but It fryed up like jerky. The TQ I have never used yet!
> I'm asking these questions because I would like to try making bacon again and some sausages this winter and maybe brine some chicken quarters and thighs in somting other than a salt and sugar brine that works but could be better. Wet brining is easy for me but I am interested in dry cureing as well if ther is a benigit.
> Oh! I would like to make some corned beef or pastrami. This winter all input would be appreciated.
> 
> Randy,


I'll let Dave & others tell you about cure #1, because I don't use it.

I'll just tell you my experiences with TQ:

Using the proper amount of TQ for whole meat (1 TBS or 1/2 ounce per pound), along with 1 tsp to 1 TBS of Brown sugar per pound, I have never had any whole meat (Bacon, CB, Dried Beef, etc) that was too salty. All I do is soak the product for 20 minutes to a half hour after curing, to remove the surface salt.

For Ground meat, I use 1/2 TBS (1 1/2 tsp or 1/4 ounce) per pound, and I have thought about adding more salt, because there is ZERO signs of salt in the finished product, but I have not added any, due to a Dr caused Kidney problem. However for that same reason, I don't add salt to anything, including Steak, Eggs, Taters, etc.

Bear


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## daveomak




----------



## dave from mesa

Hey guys

Did Pops cure for a belly about 3# and about 1 1/2" thick

Used 2/3 C Salt

1 C sugar

1 C brown sugar

1 heaping T pink salt

Let it brine for 13 days.

When I cut a few pieces to test fry I noticed that the center didn't look cured. Looked like raw pork.

Now I don't know what to do. Re-brine throw it out or just cold smoke it. Not sure if half brined will make anyone sick.

Not sure it shows in the pic but the center doesn't look right. This is my second time doing this and the other one looked fine.

Any help is appreciated.

thanks













IMG_1953.JPG



__ dave from mesa
__ Jan 17, 2017


















IMG_1956.JPG



__ dave from mesa
__ Jan 17, 2017


















IMG_1963.JPG



__ dave from mesa
__ Jan 17, 2017


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## SmokinAl

I guess I'm not seeing what you are, because it looks cured to me.

It looks red in the middle from here.

If your sure of the amounts of cure you used then I wouldn't worry about it.

13 days is plenty long for a belly that size.

Al


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## dave from mesa

2nd pic. I guess what I'm seeing is what looks like it cured on the left and right but where my thumb is and to the right looks uncured. The first batch looked the same all the way thru.

Just don't want to waste my time smoking it and not being able to eat it.

thanks


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## crankybuzzard

Could be a lack of myoglobin in that spot, or oxygen contact on that spot while curing, or where the meat touched the container or another piece of meat.  

With the time spent in the cure, you're good to fry and eat.


----------



## dr k

dave from mesa said:


> Hey guys
> Did Pops cure for a belly about 3# and about 1 1/2" thick
> Used 2/3 C Salt
> 1 C sugar
> 1 C brown sugar
> 1 heaping T pink salt
> Let it brine for 13 days.
> When I cut a few pieces to test fry I noticed that the center didn't look cured. Looked like raw pork.
> Now I don't know what to do. Re-brine throw it out or just cold smoke it. Not sure if half brined will make anyone sick.
> Not sure it shows in the pic but the center doesn't look right. This is my second time doing this and the other one looked fine.
> Any help is appreciated.
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> IMG_1953.JPG
> 
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> 
> __ dave from mesa
> __ Jan 17, 2017
> 
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> 
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> __ dave from mesa
> __ Jan 17, 2017
> 
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> __ dave from mesa
> __ Jan 17, 2017


It looks great. Time to test fry or smoke if you have done this recipe before. It's strange when you see raw pork compared to cured pork. You can search here on SMF on uncured or not fully cured pork. It'll show pork loin with a big contrast to the center that isn't cured. But it's always best to ask with pics like you did. As long as your moving pieces around for maximum exposure to the wet cure or flipping and neading a little every other day with dry curing you are doing fine. 
-Kurt


----------



## dave from mesa

For what it's worth this was one piece and we cut some to test for salt that's when I saw it didn't look cured. Cut it in half and it looked the same. The pics show the center of the belly. 

Will smoke it in a couple of days.

thanks guys


----------



## smoker21

For what it's worth, I've had it happen several times and it hasn't killed me yet. I have been using smaller pieces ( under 2 lb) and have had fewer problems.

YRMV

JD


----------



## remsr

Wow! Bear and Dave what a lot of good  information. I will be saving this post for reference when I start making bacon, ham and sausage. I hope you don't mind if I post you for additional  information when I start my first sausage? I don't have a scale do I really need one?

Randy,


----------



## remsr

I just went back to save all that good  information and it was gone???? 

Randy,


----------



## dave from mesa

Randy

Why don't you just subscribe to this thread if you want to save the info?


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## remsr

The thing is that between you and Bear answered all my questions. I thought knowone knew about sweeter then sweet but you even broke it down for me. I still have half of what I used on the bacon left andwould like to use it up. 

Randy,


----------



## Bearcarver

REMSR said:


> Wow! Bear and Dave what a lot of good information. I will be saving this post for reference when I start making bacon, ham and sausage. I hope you don't mind if I post you for additional information when I start my first sausage? I don't have a scale do I really need one?
> 
> Randy,


I would say a scale is more important when using Pink Salt (Cure #1) than when you use TQ.

I use a scale, but most of the curing I do with TQ could be done safely without a scale.

I believe the cure in Cure #1 is about 12 1/2 Times stronger than TQ.

Bear


----------



## remsr

Thanks Bear. 

Randy,


----------



## ab canuck

Well that's saved for the upcoming spring and bellies......


----------



## bobjr21w

This forum is awesome.  I can't wait to do it this.  I do have a couple questions:

I have a wood fire smoker built from brick and cedar.  I do have a propane suplimentry heat supply to keep the temp more consitant.  I read a few different posts on temp but I want to make sure I get it right. I live in ND and outdoor temp is about 10-20 deg; is 170 deg smoker temp a good temp for the whole smoke?













IMG_0692.JPG



__ bobjr21w
__ Dec 7, 2016






I have a wood fire smoker built from brick and cedar.  I do have a propane suplimentry heat supply to keep the temp more consitant.  I read a few different posts on temp but I want to make sure I get it right. I plan on doing a cold smoke and I live in ND and outdoor temp is about 10-20 deg; is 170 deg smoker temp a good temp for the whole smoke?

How long should I add smoke? I have read people have done a smoke in one day and others multiple days.


----------



## keithaa

Hello All
I tried this brine with 2.5 pounds piece of belly.
Used 1/2 cup salt
1 cup sugar
1 cup Brown sugar
And 1 TBS cure.
10 days in brine.

It was to sweet for us. 

Wondering what others have done to change this?

Increase salt to 1 cup?

Decrease sugar?

Lots of recipes I have seen salt is always higher thank sugar so I'm not sure what to do.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## daveomak

bobjr21w said:


> This forum is awesome.  I can't wait to do it this.  I do have a couple questions:
> 
> I have a wood fire smoker built from brick and cedar.  I do have a propane suplimentry heat supply to keep the temp more consitant.  I read a few different posts on temp but I want to make sure I get it right. I live in ND and outdoor temp is about 10-20 deg; is 170 deg smoker temp a good temp for the whole smoke?
> 
> How long should I add smoke? I have read people have done a smoke in one day and others multiple days.


Bob, evening....  170 is fine as long as the meat has cure #1 added to it...  You do want to control / stop / kill botulism....   Low oxygen environment is a breeding ground for botulism... 

Adding smoke is personal preference...   I generally add smoke for ~4-6 hours depending on what I'm smoking..   I do a lot of cold smoking below 70 deg. F....  other stuff I smoke ~130-140 deg. F...    Then the meat is moved to the kitchen oven to cook....  It's easier to cook meat in the oven....


----------



## wade

bobjr21w said:


> How long should I add smoke? I have read people have done a smoke in one day and others multiple days.


You can do either. If, like Dave, you are only smoking for 4-6 hours then this is easy to do in one hit. If you are smoking for 12 hours plus then it is sometimes easier to smoke it over several sessions - refrigerating in between. Resting the meat between shorter periods of smoke can also help the smoke flavour to penetrate more evenly.


----------



## skorepeo

So much conflict with doing bacon makes me afraid to try it cause I might kill my family doing it. But I guess no here has died so I'm going to just do it


----------



## wade

There isn't a great deal of conflict - more a number of variations on a couple of themes. People have their own preferences and are keen to let other people know. If you want immersion cured bacon then Pops brine is a good one to go for. If you want dry cure bacon then you can use one of the calculators to calculate the cure mix - 2.5% salt for dry cure is a good place to start. 

For your first time, for simple peace of mind, post up here exactly what you are doing and we can get back to you quite quickly if it looks as if you are doing anything that may not be safe. Curing bacon is more of an art with scientific principles and the safety margins are quite wide. If you are worried about safe storage of bacon after it is made, then to begin with just make enough that you can eat within a week or so and keep it refrigerated.

Yes - just go do it


----------



## skorepeo

So I followed the recipe but my question is how do I know when it's done? It's been in solutions for 7 days. Also it floats so I weighed it down with water in a ziplock bag.


----------



## dirtsailor2003

Skorepeo said:


> So I followed the recipe but my question is how do I know when it's done? It's been in solutions for 7 days. Also it floats so I weighed it down with water in a ziplock bag.



What are you curing? It depends on the thickness of the meat. 

Yes meat will float and it needs to weighed down. Your bag of water is fine unless it leaked. That would dilute the brine. Next time fill with brine solution. That way if it leaks your brine will not dilute. Plates or other food safe dishes work for weighing down the meat.


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## skorepeo

Making bacon from porkbelly I guess about a little over an inch.


----------



## wade

An easy way to keep it immersed is to put a large plastic bag in the bucket first and then add the brine and the meat. Tie up the bag after expelling all of the air. You will still need to poke it occasionally to refresh the brine at the top of the meat but it will ensure that all of the meat remains remains in contact with brine,


----------



## skorepeo

Wade said:


> An easy way to keep it immersed is to put a large plastic bag in the bucket first and then add the brine and the meat. Tie up the bag after expelling all of the air. You will still need to poke it occasionally to refresh the brine at the top of the meat but it will ensure that all of the meat remains remains in contact with brine,



The recipe calls for a gallon of water and I didn't know how to figure out how to make it less.


----------



## crankybuzzard

Skorepeo said:


> The recipe calls for a gallon of water and I didn't know how to figure out how to make it less.



Math.  For half, divide the ingredients and water by 2, for a quarter, divide by 4, etc...

16 cups in a gallon of water, so 8 would be a half gallon, 4 would be a quarter


----------



## skorepeo

CrankyBuzzard said:


> Math.  For half, divide the ingredients and water by 2, for a quarter, divide by 4, etc...
> 
> 16 cups in a gallon of water, so 8 would be a half gallon, 4 would be a quarter



What about the cure #1 it's my understanding that you need a brine calculator to figure out how much PPM or is that ok just to divide also for the amount of meat to salt ratio?


----------



## hondabbq

Is there a maximum amount (lbs) of meat that should be put into each gallon recipe of brine?


----------



## daveomak

Skorepeo said:


> CrankyBuzzard said:
> 
> 
> 
> Math. For half, divide the ingredients and water by 2, for a quarter, divide by 4, etc...
> 
> 16 cups in a gallon of water, so 8 would be a half gallon, 4 would be a quarter
> 
> 
> 
> What about the cure #1 it's my understanding that you need a brine calculator to figure out how much PPM or is that ok just to divide also for the amount of meat to salt ratio?
Click to expand...

You are correct....   You need 1 tsp. of cure #1 for every 5#'s of stuff...    3#'s meat + 2 #'s water needs 1 tsp. cure #1....   etc...


----------



## daveomak

hondabbq said:


> Is there a maximum amount (lbs) of meat that should be put into each gallon recipe of brine?


Following the 1 tsp. for 5#'s, to meet the necessary Ppm's nitrite...   1 gallon of water and salt and sugar  weighs about 10#'s...  1 Tbs. cure = 3 tsp. cure....  so, about 6#'s of meat falls within the minimum amount of nitrite to add to maintain 120 Ppm....


----------



## skorepeo

Ok I just sliced and test fried a piece and didn't taste salty at all. It did taste a little hammy not like store bacon and it didn't get crisp. Now it was sliced as thin as I could with a butcher knife but still a little thick. But the hammy taste is what is throwing me off. Maybe I don't know what homemade bacon is supposed to taste like. Or why it wouldn't crisp up. I am smoking it now so in about 6 hours I will slice it off n a slicer and try it again. Any input is appreciated.


----------



## remsr

I'm new to making bacon myself having only done it twice. The first time last year I wet cured it and over cooked it. So it wasn't much good for anything but beans and such. The taste was good, the smoke was good but it turned to jerky when so tried to crisp it up. 
The second time which was just resently I dry cured it but didn't cure it long enough, only 9 days instead of 14 so it was a bit to salty but fryed up crisp and tasted great with 12 hours of apple smoke at 115 to 120 degrees of heat to open the pores for smoke. 
Next time I will dry cure again with TG for 14 days and smoke between 80 and 90 degrees. 
For 12 hours again after two days in the refrigerator to develop the pellicle for smoke. 
I am getting my information now from Bear and Mr T they both use TQ and dry cure and have made lots of bacon, so I trust what they tell me. 

Randy,


----------



## biaviian

In the past, I cured and smoked a loin using this brine.  What I don't recall is if I pumped it but I am pretty sure that I didn't.  Is that needed on a whole loin?


----------



## pc farmer

Biaviian said:


> In the past, I cured and smoked a loin using this brine.  What I don't recall is if I pumped it but I am pretty sure that I didn't.  Is that needed on a whole loin?



Loins don't need injected, I dry cure them alot.


----------



## daveomak

Biaviian said:


> In the past, I cured and smoked a loin using this brine.  What I don't recall is if I pumped it but I am pretty sure that I didn't.  Is that needed on a whole loin?


As a general rule, when using a curing brine, if the meat is over 2" thick, it should be injected with the curing solution..


----------



## pc farmer

DaveOmak said:


> As a general rule, when using a curing brine, if the meat is over 2" thick, it should be injected with the curing solution..


You are correct but if over 2 inches thick it just needs more curing time.


----------



## biaviian

DaveOmak said:


> As a general rule, when using a curing brine, if the meat is over 2" thick, it should be injected with the curing solution..


I read that in my instructions/notes which is what prompted the post.  I have never pumped anything nearly this size or shape, heavy on the shape.  How much per inch would you say?  I could be wrong, but I think it is best to count the length instead of simply the weight as you would a butt or ham?  This sucker is a full, so it is 3ish feet long.


----------



## pc farmer

Biaviian said:


> I read that in my instructions/notes which is what prompted the post.  I have never pumped anything nearly this size or shape, heavy on the shape.  How much per inch would you say?  I could be wrong, but I think it is best to count the length instead of simply the weight as you would a butt or ham?  This sucker is a full, so it is 3ish feet long.


​When I use pops brine and inject, I inject every inch by inch square.  Pump as much as the meat will hold.


----------



## biaviian

c farmer said:


> When I use pops brine and inject, I inject every inch by inch square.  Pump as much as the meat will hold.


I'll give that a shot, thanks.  I always go by weight and spread it out.  I can't wait for more Canadian bacon.  I keep my brine very low in salt, 1/2 c per gallon, and high in sugars, with maple syrup as a sugar.  I can't stand salty bacon.


----------



## remsr

When in doubt, can it hurt to inject meats? 

Randy,


----------



## Bearcarver

REMSR said:


> When in doubt, can it hurt to inject meats?
> 
> Randy,


I would guess you could overload it, but anything thicker than 3" should get injected---Some do it if it's only over 2" thick. Certainly doesn't hurt, if done correctly.

IMHO.

Bear


----------



## kilo charlie

Pops6927 said:


> real simple curing brine:
> 
> for every 1 gallon of water, add:
> 
> 1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)
> 
> 1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]
> 
> 1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix
> 
> 1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt
> 
> stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in
> 
> weight down with a partially filled 1 qt or 1 gal. ziploc bag or bags to keep meat immersed
> 
> Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.
> 
> You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters:
> 
> In an effort to standardize this process (for me), I first read through all 461 previous posts in search for a specific answer. Due to having used dry cures in the past I am used to weighing things in grams for accuracy. I know that a cup of granulated sugar and brown sugar both weight the same at 200 grams. I know that a cup of table salt weighs 273 grams vs a cup of Kosher Salt at 288 grams.
> 
> My question is the curing salt. If a person were to Google how many grams in a Tablespoon they could get an answer of 28.34 grams. When using a calculator such as the one found at traditionaloven.com and using the 1 Tablespoon of table salt volume to grams the answer is 17.06 grams in table salt mass.  While both of these answers well below the 3.84 ounces/gallon, which one is correct?


----------



## daveomak

Let me help....  When using a brine or a rub, the USDA acceptable amount of cure, is ~156 Ppm nitrite...    Ppm is weight vs. weight...    Soooo, that being said, approximately 1.1 grams of cure #1 per pound fits those parameters... 

Dry rub, weigh the meat and add 1.1 grams per pound......

Brine/cure solution, weigh the meat and the brining liquid and add 1.1 grams per pound...  

Most sites recommend using 25% solution based on the meat weight, to add your ingredients to.. up to 50% on other sites....

Soooo, 10#'s of meat and 2.5#'s of brine/cure solution, adjust for weight of salt and sugar, add 1.1 grams per pound or ~14 grams of cure #1...

I prefer 2% salt and 1% sugar...


----------



## kilo charlie

Apparently I failed to communicate my question clearly. I was referring to the original post with Pops brine and the approximate weight of the Cure #1. 
In an effort to reduce variables such as a Tablespoon vs a heaping Tablespoon, a simple weight measurement would be repeatable time after time.


----------



## daveomak

Kilo Charlie said:


> Apparently I failed to communicate my question clearly. I was referring to the original post with Pops brine and the approximate weight of the Cure #1.
> In an effort to reduce variables such as a Tablespoon vs a heaping Tablespoon, a simple weight measurement would be repeatable time after time.


Well, since you seemed to have a total understanding process of curing meats, I thought I would point out the "scientific proper" way to develop a cure/brine solution... 

Anyway....   1 tsp. of cure #1 per 5#'s of stuff...  or 5.67 grams of cure #1 per 5#'s of stuff for a 156 Ppm nitrite addition...    1 TBS. = 3 tsp....  

A gallon of water with salt and sugar additions weighs approx. 10#'s.....   Therefore, to be technically correct, the gallon of cure/brine, with the addition of a 5# hunk of meat, would be at the perfect addition of nitrite to the meat given enough time as this is an equilibrium brine/cure solution...  1 tsp. per 5#'s of stuff...


----------



## Rings Я Us

:popcorn


----------



## szejin

Hello everyone!

If I calculated correctly, pop's solution has a nitrite concentration of 280 ppm. The curing solution that I currently use is approximately 480 ppm in nitrite concentration.

I am using it to cure bacon (belly and loin), and the meat sits in the solution for anytime between 1 week to 10 days. My question is:

1. Is it safe to eat?

2. Have I exceeded the maximum limits in this case? I read that the maximum permissible nitrite concentration is about 3.84oz 6.25% curing salt / gallon of water - about 1800 ppm.

3. I used the calculator from: http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/curing_meats.html - is it advisable to do so? It tells me to leave the meat in the solution for lesser days (~4 days) than I'd prefer to (~7 days).

Cheers and thank you!


----------



## kilo charlie

DaveOmak said:


> Well, since you seemed to have a total understanding process of curing meats, I thought I would point out the "scientific proper" way to develop a cure/brine solution...
> 
> Anyway....   1 tsp. of cure #1 per 5#'s of stuff...  or 5.67 grams of cure #1 per 5#'s of stuff for a 156 Ppm nitrite addition...    1 TBS. = 3 tsp....
> 
> A gallon of water with salt and sugar additions weighs approx. 10#'s.....   Therefore, to be technically correct, the gallon of cure/brine, with the addition of a 5# hunk of meat, would be at the perfect addition of nitrite to the meat given enough time as this is an equilibrium brine/cure solution...  1 tsp. per 5#'s of stuff...


Dave - Thank you for your response. I totally understand your calculations. Here's where my confusion lies - 5.67 grams per teaspoon equals 17.01 grams per table spoon which we can all agree on. The original post stated a heaping tablespoon is what was being used and the original post also indicated that a heaping tablespoon was 1 ounce which equals 28.35 grams. The difference of 11.34 grams is what is leading me to my questions.

I sent Pops a PM and in his reply he indicated that the 28.35 grams is correct for his recipe. If you added this to a gallon of water at 8.34 pounds which is 3780 grams, plus a full cup of table salt which is 273 grams and a full cup of white and brown sugar which are 200 grams each you get a total of 4481.35 grams or 9.87 pounds. If you reduce the cure to the 17.01 grams then all that math comes out to 9.85 pounds.

Based on most people's statements in this whole thread, they are not using a full cup of table salt, nor a full cup of each of the sugars which further reduces the weight of the curing brine. This fact slightly skews the whole 156 Ppm equation and then factor in that the center cut pork bellies available in my area are usually 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 pounds the whole equation is skewed.

By utilizing this curing brine it eliminates the weight factor of the meat and the brine itself and the sugars and table salt can be adjusted according to individual tastes. The two constants in this recipe are 1 gallon of water and the 1 ounce of cure (28.35 grams) which is the answer to my original question.


----------



## dr k

Kilo Charlie said:


> Dave - Thank you for your response. I totally understand your calculations. Here's where my confusion lies - 5.67 grams per teaspoon equals 17.01 grams per table spoon which we can all agree on. The original post stated a heaping tablespoon is what was being used and the original post also indicated that a heaping tablespoon was 1 ounce which equals 28.35 grams. The difference of 11.34 grams is what is leading me to my questions.
> 
> I sent Pops a PM and in his reply he indicated that the 28.35 grams is correct for his recipe. If you added this to a gallon of water at 8.34 pounds which is 3780 grams, plus a full cup of table salt which is 273 grams and a full cup of white and brown sugar which are 200 grams each you get a total of 4481.35 grams or 9.87 pounds. If you reduce the cure to the 17.01 grams then all that math comes out to 9.85 pounds.
> 
> Based on most people's statements in this whole thread, they are not using a full cup of table salt, nor a full cup of each of the sugars which further reduces the weight of the curing brine. This fact slightly skews the whole 156 Ppm equation and then factor in that the center cut pork bellies available in my area are usually 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 pounds the whole equation is skewed.
> 
> By utilizing this curing brine it eliminates the weight factor of the meat and the brine itself and the sugars and table salt can be adjusted according to individual tastes. The two constants in this recipe are 1 gallon of water and the 1 ounce of cure (28.35 grams) which is the answer to my original question.


I weighed a rounded Tbsp. of cure #1 and I get 22-24gm. Depending on how rounded. It doesn't seem to be as dry as table salt but can be packed a little like brn sugar but is much more granulated than brn sugar. Being salt and nitrite and opened and vacuumed sealed many times it may have absorbed a little humidity over 5 years and I've never heard of a shelf life. I put in a rounded Tbsp. Per gallon of water and a third cup each of brn. Sugar, cane sugar and kosher salt and used Pop's duration 14 days for CB without injecting and has been flawless on thorough curing. 
-Kurt


----------



## keithaa

I was hoping to get some help here. I come across this brine some time ago. The company has been around for quite a while. I have bought lots of seasonings from them.

http://www.alliedkenco.com/pdf/Smoke Turkey, Ham & Bacon.pdf

It seems to have lots of Cure #1 compared to other recipes. I just want to know is it safe. I only found one other recipe using this much cure.
I used a 10 pound fresh ham and 4 gallons of water so my recipe was this.
12.8 ounces canning salt
12.8 ounces Cure #1
19.2 ounces Dextrose

Thanks


----------



## daveomak

The salt and dextrose are in the ballpark....  However...   The cure #1, for an equilibrium brine, should be 2 oz....

a 10# hunk of meat requires approx. 11.3 grams of cure #1 to cure it properly...
Your brine/cure solution has ~106 grams of cure #1 in it...
Are you still close enough to the start of this project to start over ??    I will help you...  Do you have an injector to inject the ham...  I have an injection method that works awesome...    Take a look...

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/index.php?threads/ham-from-fresh-picnics-update-10-21-money.236375/


----------



## keithaa

No I it is pretty much done now. I have been going back and forth on the recipe because even my cure #1 from butcher packer say on the package to use 3.84 ounces per gallon of water so I am not really much off that. I had to use 4 gallons of liquid because the ham was cut in half long way. It took that much to cover it within a 5 gallon bucket. If I could have submerged it another way I could have used far less.  Not sure what to do next time I have 3 left to do. I found when injecting the liquid come right back out the hole.

I will read your post and see whatever might help but am not sure why everything says to use that much.


----------



## daveomak

I know what you mean about using that much cure...  I don't understand it either...  If you read the FSIS manual, those that recommend those amounts have not read the USDA manuals...  Their methods make absolutely no sense.....


----------



## GSRoger

This is my first post ever on any forum, not sure if I'm doing it right, but here goes. I recently used Pops recipe and made bacon. It is the best thing I have ever smoked. Can this same recipe be used for other meats such as turkey, beef, sausage, etc. without modification?


----------



## SmokinAl

Yes you can use it to cure anything, all though I would not use it for sausage or any other ground meat.
For those you would use a dry cure.
Also if the meat is more than 2" thick then you should also inject the brine into the meat.
Al


----------



## GSRoger

smokinal said:


> Yes you can use it to cure anything, all though I would not use it for sausage or any other ground meat.
> For those you would use a dry cure.
> Also if the meat is more than 2" thick then you should also inject the brine into the meat.
> Al


Al, thank you, I'm going to try it on a turkey breast...and then some ham hocks... and then, and then...


----------



## foamheart

GSRoger said:


> Al, thank you, I'm going to try it on a turkey breast...and then some ham hocks... and then, and then...



It makes some down right righteous ham hocks!


----------



## daveomak

Be sure to always make a gallon or more...  The amount of cure is inadequate if the recipe is reduced, but fine, if it is doubled...


----------



## kilo charlie

It also works wonders for making pastrami!


----------



## griz400

Boy ... this is one of the most informative thread I have read here .. took about 2 hrs .. lol ..Points to you Pops ... we vacation on a cruise this Saturday and gone a week .. just received a 2 1/2 lb container of #1, ordered from Walmart and picked up from store .. paid 16.00 good/bad ?? 







Anyways , after we get back from vacation .. will be curing up some loins for Canadian bacon.. and then smoking with hickory .. may cold smoke an hr or 2 then smoke to an internal of 145 ?? sound like a plan ?? then actually will be making some from bellies right after this .. 
  Couple of questions .. going to make some large loins and is like 10 - 14 days a good brine time ?? and dont know what the weather will be like .. if its cool/cold in a couple weeks in Fla here , would like to cold smoke a few hrs. , then smoke with hickory to internal of 145 .. good ?? straighten me out pops ... love this thread ... thinking of some some lemons in the brine .. cause I got a whole tree full of Myers lemons right now out back ..


----------



## dirtsailor2003

griz400 said:


> Boy ... this is one of the most informative thread I have read here .. took about 2 hrs .. lol ..Points to you Pops ... we vacation on a cruise this Saturday and gone a week .. just received a 2 1/2 lb container of #1, ordered from Walmart and picked up from store .. paid 16.00 good/bad ??
> View attachment 343671
> 
> 
> Anyways , after we get back from vacation .. will be curing up some loins for Canadian bacon.. and then smoking with hickory .. may cold smoke an hr or 2 then smoke to an internal of 145 ?? sound like a plan ?? then actually will be making some from bellies right after this ..
> Couple of questions .. going to make some large loins and is like 10 - 14 days a good brine time ?? and dont know what the weather will be like .. if its cool/cold in a couple weeks in Fla here , would like to cold smoke a few hrs. , then smoke with hickory to internal of 145 .. good ?? straighten me out pops ... love this thread ... thinking of some some lemons in the brine .. cause I got a whole tree full of Myers lemons right now out back ..



I’d avoid adding the lemons. The acid will cook the meat and you will probably end up with a product that isn’t great.


----------



## chopsaw

I'll second no lemons . I added a few slices one time . Didn't hurt the end result , because I didn't add many  but they turned black in the brine .


----------



## Flying Clay Disk

pops6927 said:


> real simple curing brine:  ...



My apologies if this question is redundant, I've read most of the threads, but not all.

Regarding Pops brine cure recipe (all the way back on page 1), would it be possible to eliminate the white sugar altogether and just go with a combo of brown sugar and maple syrup?  Specifically, I think I would like to go with 3/4 cup of brown sugar + 3/4 cup of maple syrup (in lieu of the 1 cup of brown sugar + 1 cup of white sugar).  

Everything else would be essentially the same, but I am also adding some spices like bay leaf, thyme and crushed fresh garlic.  (I'm still debating the garlic though).

Would this yield bad results?


----------



## biteme7951

Flying Clay Disk said:


> My apologies if this question is redundant, I've read most of the threads, but not all.
> 
> Regarding Pops brine cure recipe (all the way back on page 1), would it be possible to eliminate the white sugar altogether and just go with a combo of brown sugar and maple syrup?  Specifically, I think I would like to go with 3/4 cup of brown sugar + 3/4 cup of maple syrup (in lieu of the 1 cup of brown sugar + 1 cup of white sugar).
> 
> Everything else would be essentially the same, but I am also adding some spices like bay leaf, thyme and crushed fresh garlic.  (I'm still debating the garlic though).
> 
> Would this yield bad results?



Brown sugar is just white sugar with molasses added, so yes you can use just brown sugar. I tried maple syrup in a brine once and found the maple taste I was looking for got lost in the process somewhere is it was not as pronounced in the end product as I had hoped. and at the price of pure maple syrup I never tried it again.....but you can give it a try for yourself and see. If using the brine for canadian bacon you can just brush some syrup on the meat as it's smoking and it will come thru in the finished product.

add any spices you like untill you achieve the results you desire.

Barry.


----------



## Flying Clay Disk

biteme7951,

Thanks!  I think I'll take your advice and just put the maple syrup on while smoking instead.  And maybe I'll just go with all brown sugar instead of a 50-50 blend.  Nothing against white sugar, but I just prefer the character of brown sugar better.  Thanks again!


----------



## zwiller

+1;  You could also use maple wood for the smoke.  Maple comes through pretty good unlike other woods.  In fact, that's why I don't care to use it.  That said, family is goo goo for maple lunch meats.  WRT to spices, I prefer to leave them out of cured stuff.  

I make it a rule to make any recipe exact at least once before modding and suggest you do the same.  Canadian bacon with Pops brine on maple wood and maple syrup glaze at end sounds like a sure winner to me.


----------



## daveomak

Flying Clay Disk said:


> My apologies if this question is redundant, I've read most of the threads, but not all.
> 
> Regarding Pops brine cure recipe (all the way back on page 1), would it be possible to eliminate the white sugar altogether and just go with a combo of brown sugar and maple syrup?  Specifically, I think I would like to go with 3/4 cup of brown sugar + 3/4 cup of maple syrup (in lieu of the 1 cup of brown sugar + 1 cup of white sugar).
> 
> Everything else would be essentially the same, but I am also adding some spices like bay leaf, thyme and crushed fresh garlic.  (I'm still debating the garlic though).
> 
> Would this yield bad results?



Morning.... excellent question....   After a week or two, you may find the brine/cure mix has become "ropy"...  That's from the impurities in the brine...  do not boil or heat the curing brine with cure in it...  nitrite degrades about 130 F...


----------



## dr k

I use 1/3 C each per gallon of water:  dark or light brown sugar, Maple syrup and Kosher salt with no problems. Maybe the less sugar in the same amount of water keeps it from getting ropy. I do use Todd's Maple Pellets in the Amnps and I can taste the maple flavor. I have used 1/2 C each of the ingredients above but never more. 
-Kurt


----------



## pops6927

Certainly, the only thing you absolutely need is water and curing salt.  Sugars of any kind are simply for flavoring.  You can modify the curing brine with additional flavorings, spices, salts, sugars, maple, etc.  I've added maple extract also.  I can get maple pellets from Todd that does a good job, too.  Let us know what you've done and comment on it!


----------



## Flying Clay Disk

Well, here's what I've done so far.  I halved a tasty lookin' roughly 5 lb pork loin into to equal weight pieces.  The brine I went with is basically your recipe with a couple tweaks and adds.

1- Gal Water
1 - Cup Kosher salt
2 - Tbsp Prague #1 (NOTE - _See comments below!)_
1-3/4 Cup Brown sugar
4 - Bay leaves
1 - Tbsp dried thyme
1 - Tbsp black peppercorns
1 - Tbsp Crazy Salt (essentially salt, onion powder, garlic powder and sage)
2 - Tsp onion powder

I allowed the water to come up to room temp just enough to dissolve the sugar and salt, then let it cool.  Then I divided it in half and placed each half loin in a gallon zip lock with 1/2 of the brine.  Total 2 bags.  I have this in the outside refrigerator and plan on leaving it for 7-9 days.

I was going to inject it, but I realized my injection needle was missing and it's a long way into town (like really long way) so I just went with what I had.

edit - Edited post based on input from comments.


----------



## daveomak

Flying Clay Disk said:


> Well, here's what I've done so far.  I halved a tasty lookin' roughly 5 lb pork loin into to equal weight pieces.  The brine I went with is basically your recipe with a couple tweaks and adds.
> 
> 1- Gal Water
> 1 - Cup Kosher salt
> *2 - Tbsp Prague #1* -- 2 TBS Prague powder is enough cure for 30#'s of meat... 1  TBS = 3 tsp...
> 1-3/4 Cup Brown sugar
> 4 - Bay leaves
> 1 - Tbsp dried thyme
> 1 - Tbsp black peppercorns
> 1 - Tbsp Crazy Salt (essentially salt, onion powder, garlic powder and sage)
> 2 - Tsp onion powder
> 
> *Iwarmed the solution up just enough to dissolve the sugar and salt, then let it cool* .  Warming the solution, if you had the Prague Powder in it, could have degraded the cure...  Cure starts to break down at 130 deg. F...
> 
> Then I divided it in half and placed each half loin in a gallon zip lock with 1/2 of the brine.  Total 2 bags.  I have this in the outside refrigerator and plan on leaving it for 7-9 days.
> 
> I was going to inject it, but I realized my injection needle was missing and it's a long way into town (like really long way) so I just went with what I had.


----------



## Flying Clay Disk

Yep, you're absolutely correct!  *Major* mistake on my part (and also over the 200ppm max)!!  Thank you!  Now the question is, what to do?  Trash the whole lot, or dump the brine/cure and make a new batch with the correct levels?  It's been in the brine/cure for just under 20 hours.

BTW..."warmed" was probably a bad term, I just took the chill off the near ice-water.  No where near 130F, more like 50F max.  It was still cold to the touch.

edit - Bit of a backstory as to why I made this mistake, but wrong is wrong.  No sense belaboring it.


----------



## dr k

Pink salt #1 6.25% nitrite says 24lb./100gal. =3.84oz./gal. Two Tbsp you put in is about 2oz. In that gallon. So it seems ok. But I would like to know as well .
- Kurt


----------



## Flying Clay Disk

dr k said:


> Two Tbsp you put in is about 2oz. in that gallon.



Well...according to my understanding 1 Tsp = 5.7g (of Prague #1), and there are 3 Tsp per 1 Tbsp (no debate there).  Therefore, 2 Tbsp = 34.2g.  Consequently, by weight, 34.2g = 1.21oz.  *However*, the max for Prague #1 is 200ppm or roughly 3g/kg, or 3g/2.2lbs.  So, doing the math another way (meat wt. + water wt.)*.25% = cure, or (4.4lbs + 8.34lbs)*.25% = .03185lbs (or 14.46g = .52oz. = 2.54 Tsp).  So...my cure seems *too high*...as daveomak has correctly (I believe)  pointed out. 

Note- the one caveat here is the above does not take into consideration the weight of both the salt and the sugar (which is part of where my error is).


----------



## daveomak

OK...
1 gal water including all the other stuff is about 10#'s...  you've added 1/2 of a 5# loin... 
Now each 1/2 gal of brine and loin is about 7.5#'s..  That take's about 1.5 tsp or 1/2 TBS of cure for ~156 Ppm nitrite...
Each 1/2 gal brine/cure has 1 TBS dissolved in it...
I would dump the liquid into a container and return 1 qt. back to the zip bag with the meat...  that will net you 1/2 TBS or 1 1/2 tsp. per qt. or the correct amount for 7.5#'s of stuff.
the remaining ingredients seem to be in the ballpark..  ~1/4 to 1/2 cup per qt... 
Do not add any additional liquid...


----------



## Flying Clay Disk

Perfect!  Thanks, Dave!!

Really appreciate your input and assistance!


----------



## dr k

I got about 18gm. Per Tbsp. 21 if it's heaping. Moisture content may be different. I'm still stuck on what the label says 24lb./100gal. Pop's recipe for a Tbsp per gallon is about 1/6 of that. I like the wet cure because if it covers it cures and I don't have to mess with ppm. Now I'm more confused. 
- Kurt


----------



## Flying Clay Disk

It _*is*_ confusing, frankly.  I've seen published and storied cures for Canadian Bacon with 3 Tbsp of Prague #1 (yes, "TABLEspoons) for one 8lb loin!!  :eek:  (and more than just a couple times too!).

I'm *still* learning...and this isn't my first rodeo either.  Lots of knowledge here though!

BTW...18g is close  (5.7g * 3 = 17.1g)/Tbsp.


----------



## daveomak

Now for the 24#'s per 100 gallons...







Those directions are for a commercial "pump the meat" operation...  When you can consistently pump 10% of the solution into the meat..  It is not for an equilibrium brine, like you are attempting...

4 oz. per 100#'s of meat = 4 x 28.38 = 113 grams per 100#'s or 1.13 grams per pound...

24#'s per 100 gallons = 0.24#'s per gallon or 4 oz. per gallon 

4 oz = 113 grams x 0.0625 = 7.1 grams nitrite..

1 gal = 8.35#'s x 454 = 3,791 gms.. + 113 = 3904 gms total..

7.1 / 3904 = 1819 Ppm nitrite in the 4 oz. per gallon mix...

If you inject 10% of the weight of the meat, of the above mix, you will get a ~180 Ppm nitrite in the meat...

If you submerge a 5# or 2,270 gm hunk of meat in that 1819 Ppm mix........
Original solution weight of 10#'s + 5#'s of meat....
The meat is ~1/3 the weight of the brine = meat... 
Therefore, it is "somewhat" reasonable to assume, it will, given enough time, absorb ~ 1/3 the dissolved ingredients... 
Now the meat "could have" +/- 600 Ppm nitrite... 

No "home curing" person would even think about dissolving 24#'s of cure in 100 gallons or brine mix...   The above method is for commercial pumping operations....
The above solution must NOT be used for an equilibrium brine/cure mix...


----------



## bobrap

Been reading a bit about some of the problems people have had with brining.  Time for me to join the club :).  Did a brisket in Pop's brine/cure with some added spices (pickling spice).  Had to do an unexpected trip out of town and the meat sat ii the brine about 14-16 days.  When I took the meat out it was slimy.  Read about causes, but, not too much on whether to use it o chuck it.  Couldn't go by smell that much "cause all I smelled were the spices.  So, the question is...recommend chucking it or soldier on to some corned beef/pastrami.  Thanks for any advice.


----------



## chopsaw

Slimy or slick ?


----------



## bobrap

I’d say more slimy than slick.  It dripped/ran off the meat when raised from the water.


----------



## chopsaw

I never had that . I can tell myself by lookin at it , don't want to miss lead you . Hang tight someone will be by soon .


----------



## daveomak

bobrap said:


> Been reading a bit about some of the problems people have had with brining.  Time for me to join the club :).  Did a brisket in Pop's brine/cure with some added spices (pickling spice).  Had to do an unexpected trip out of town and the meat sat ii the brine about 14-16 days.  When I took the meat out it was slimy.  Read about causes, but, not too much on whether to use it o chuck it.  Couldn't go by smell that much "cause all I smelled were the spices.  So, the question is...recommend chucking it or soldier on to some corned beef/pastrami.  Thanks for any advice.



See the pictures that describe "Ropy" brine...   it's back a page or two.... 

The meat is fine....  rinse it well and smoke it....


----------



## bobrap

Looked at that and figured that was what was going on.  Glad I’m not throwing away a brisket. Thanks for the help.


----------



## daveomak

Anytime....  Dave


----------



## chef jimmyj

Glad to have you here Dave. We need someone who can help with the numbers without getting a headache....JJ


----------



## daveomak

Thank you JJ...


----------



## shusswap

Ropy Brine
I used Pop’s brine (which I have used before) for a bone in ham that was in the fridge for 21 days.  The sugar I used was Damara. Because I understood from Pop’s posts that the meat did not need to be turned, and because of close quarters in the fridge, I never opened the bucket over the 21 days. When I took it out the brine was ropy.  The meat has no odor issue and has great color.  I have read the earlier posts but am not confident if the ham can be saved.  Any advice will be appreciated.


----------



## bobrap

One more question that has probably been asked many times before.  Using Pop's brining recipe calling for one cup of salt, would that also be one cup of kosher or does it have to be adjusted?  Pop's recipe is using table salt, right?  Tried searching without any luck.  Than ks and don't slap me too hard. lol


----------



## biteme7951

Pop's original post called for between 1/3-1 cup of sea salt which is about the consistency of table salt (do not use iodized table salt). The amount of salt is personal preference so that is why the wide range. I use 1/3 cup canning salt which is the consistency of table salt and find the saltiness right for me.

Barry.


----------



## daveomak

In the commercial industry, the writings below are pretty much standard...   Substitute "Freez'em Pickle" for their proprietary cure#1 mix....   Demerara sugar is unrefined and cause "ropy" brine...  They "overhaul", mix and turn the meat 3 times during the curing process in the vat....


----------



## shusswap

daveomak said:


> In the commercial industry, the writings below are pretty much standard...   Substitute "Freez'em Pickle" for their proprietary cure#1 mix....   Demerara sugar is unrefined and cause "ropy" brine...  They "overhaul", mix and turn the meat 3 times during the curing process in the vat....
> View attachment 357993


Thanks Dave - the demara was half the sugar content - won't do that again.  What is your thought about tossing it or moving ahead since there was no miscoloring of the brine and no odor.  BTW we will be driving up 97 returning to bC next week


----------



## zwiller

Biteme is right, the salt it is personal preference.  Currently have 6lbs of CB brining with Pops at 3/4C table salt, sugar, brown sugar.  Sorta middle of the road.  We like salt and found 1C was just a bit too much for us on turkey (but was incredibly good)


----------



## daveomak

Be prepared for ropy brine, in a couple of weeks, due to the brown sugar...


----------



## shusswap

Well the results are in - we're tossing the ham.  The fridge temperature was 42.8F which probably explains the ropy brine.


----------



## bobrap

I guess my question should have been if I weigh a cup of table salt, should I use that same weight of kosher salt or does it matter for this application.  A cup is a cup. Thanks


----------



## pops6927

That is too bad you threw out a perfectly good hind leg, there was nothing wrong with it.  First, it is always good to check your curing now and then; brine will get 'ropy' from fermentation; all you have to do is to change the brine for fresh brine.  Any type of sugar can react and cause fermentation, not just brown sugar.  Turning the meat does nothing - it is surrounded in brine and absorbing the cure and expelling the blood and plasma from the meat in 360°.  I have had to change my brine once in 10 years being on this site due to ropy brine; the reason?  Contamination from the container not being washed good enough, I was in a hurry and didn't scrub it out, just rinsed it out, introducing excess bacteria.

Also, don't mistake 'ropy' for 'thick'.   'Ropy' will have a sour, yeasty smell and will be foamy. 'Thick' means just that - the curing brine has become thick primarily because blood and plasma has entered the brine from the meat as it is replaced by the curing medium.  It will naturally turn red and thick from curing.  This is entirely normal and to be expected.


----------



## chopsaw

bobrap said:


> I guess my question should have been if I weigh a cup of table salt, should I use that same weight of kosher salt or does it matter for this application.  A cup is a cup. Thanks


You're right , the volume will be different . I don't weigh mine because of the amount used can be adjusted . I use 1/2 cup of canning salt or kosher salt , and works perfect for me .


----------



## zwiller

Kinda funny.  I just converted Pops Brine to weight last weekend for the CB run.  I can post my numbers later if you guys want.  I am a big fan of using weight so it is consistent using different salts AND so I can figure out smaller quantities.  IE I did a half batch of 3/4 strength...  

I am actually surprised how much less salt some of you guys are using.  1/2C kosher (large crystal) is basically 1/4C table and that is half the strength of his low salt.  

Since we're playing along.  I pumped the CB so how long of a brine?  I think 7-10 days or so.  CB is for Easter.


----------



## bobrap

zwiller said:


> Kinda funny.  I just converted Pops Brine to weight last weekend for the CB run.  I can post my numbers later if you guys want.  I am a big fan of using weight so it is consistent using different salts AND so I can figure out smaller quantities.  IE I did a half batch of 3/4 strength...
> 
> I am actually surprised how much less salt some of you guys are using.  1/2C kosher (large crystal) is basically 1/4C table and that is half the strength of his low salt.
> 
> Since we're playing along.  I pumped the CB so how long of a brine?  I think 7-10 days or so.  CB is for Easter.



Please do post your numbers.  I gave a friend some bacon made with 1 cup of kosher and both he and his wife said it needed more salt!  Thanks


----------



## dr k

I like a heaping Tbsp cure #1, 1/3c each brown sugar, Maple syrup and kosher salt/gallon water for 14 days for back bacon. No fermenting issues.


----------



## zwiller

As a long time brewer, it makes no sense to me that white refined sugar does not ferment(ropiness) whereas less refined/demerara/brown sugar does. 

WOW K.  1/3C large crystal>1/6C table salt.  2.67 tablespoon to a gallon.  Why brine at all?  :D


----------



## zwiller

My conversion of Pops standard brine into weight:
1C Table salt 320g
1C White sugar 216g
1C Brown sugar 216g
1 "heaping" TBSP cure #1/pink salt 24g

Not sure if it's sinking in, but large grain salts IE kosher/canning are typically about 1/2 the weight of smaller grain salts such as sea or table.  Weight is the ultimate equalizer...  I have to thank Pops again for sharing the family recipe!


----------



## chopsaw

You're not sure if it's sinking in ? Alot of smart people on here that know exactly what they are doing , and why they do it .


----------



## zwiller

My bad.  Poor choice of words there!


----------



## daveomak

zwiller, morning...  FWIW, white refined sugar is sterilized...   to meet food code for the FDA requirements...  As white sugar is used in commercial processes like cakes and candies  etc...  and they don't want pathogens to enter the food chain...
Unlike brown sugar etc. which is a home use product and does not come under regulations and the FDA doesn't regulate what you put in your food..  If they did, they would be in your kitchen..  and in your brew shack to check for roaches.....
Now, that may sound stupid, but as an example, the FDA/USDA etc. does NOT allow nitrate in bacon..  Yet they allow the homemaker to use Tender Quick when making bacon...


----------



## zwiller

Thanks Dave.  Never heard that refined was sterilized but that makes sense.  Anyone ever fool with potassium sorbate in a brine?  

Time will tell if mine will turn ropy.  Loins went in the drink Sunday 18th.  Plan to pull on 30th for a overnight rest and smoke next day for Easter.  Longest brine I ever did.


----------



## daveomak

If it turns ropy, pull the meat and rinse..  make a new brine and stuff the meat back in...
Check your fridge temp while you are at it...  a warm fridge will grow bacteria much faster than a cooler fridge...  
36-38 F is ideal for curing meats..  too cold and your fresh veggies will freeze and you will be in deep doo-doo...


----------



## frankljs

I just tried pops brine with ham bacon and loin for the first time two weeks ago. The changes I made was reduced the brown suger by half, only because I didn’t have more and used 1 cup mortons pickling salt (reg salt just different grain structures; it disolves easily). Pulled them out after 2 weeks in, which I understood to be the recommendation from the original recipe posts. When I dry cure, 1 week is usually enough. Anyway, everything was too salty. Was it in for too long or the the curing salts was more dense, thus making it too salty? Also, Hams are still in the brine; should I remove them now (they were injected)? Lastly, how long should I soak in water to reduce the saltiness on the meat? I have a lot of ham in the buckets so, I would hate to remove too early. Thank you all in advance for your help guys!


----------



## frankljs

Just checked mortans , the pickling salt is a 1/1 ratio to table salt. Now im more confused as to why its too salty.


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## biteme7951

I use 1/3cup per gallon and it works for me. Some folks like the saltier stuff and that's ok too. All personal preference. Consider the smoker that has to cover food with salt and pepper when others eat it as it is placed in front of them.

Barry.


----------



## chopsaw

I always match sugar to salt . I use 1/2 cup of each per gallon . My thoughts are by reducing the sugar you added to the salty taste .


----------



## frankljs

chopsaw said:


> I always match sugar to salt . I use 1/2 cup of each per gallon . My thoughts are by reducing the sugar you added to the salty taste .


I see. I still used 1 cup reg suger and half cup brown with 1 cup salt. I think reducing the salt next time should suffice. Opinions on removing hams after 2 weeks?


----------



## zwiller

Lots going on here but first, cure time is determined by thickness.  1/4" per day is generally accepted.  Injecting speeds the the cure time and based on what I've read effectively halves it. 

Sweetness offset saltiness, so using less brown sugar hurts you.  I also think the standard brine is too salty.  Not inedible but just over the top.  It's gonna take some experimenting to find your preference.  I make it a point to taste my brines to help me get a feel.  Last cured brine was 3/4C.  I like mine 2:1 sugar:salt.  

Lot's of guys soak to remove excess salt.  Try a day and change water a few times.  Then do a fry taste and see if you are OK.


----------



## frankljs

biteme7951 said:


> I use 1/3cup per gallon and it works for me. Some folks like the saltier stuff and that's ok too. All personal preference. Consider the smoker that has to cover food with salt and pepper when others eat it as it is placed in front of them.
> 
> Barry



I will try 1/3 to 1/2 next time. Thanks


----------



## biteme7951

frankljs said:


> I see. I still used 1 cup reg suger and half cup brown with 1 cup salt. I think reducing the salt next time should suffice. Opinions on removing hams after 2 weeks?


Pops recipe calls for 3-4 weeks for a whole ham.


----------



## frankljs

I


zwiller said:


> Lots going on here but first, cure time is determined by thickness.  1/4" per day is generally accepted.  Injecting speeds the the cure time and based on what I've read effectively halves it.
> 
> Sweetness offset saltiness, so using less brown sugar hurts you.  I also think the standard brine is too salty.  Not inedible but just over the top.  It's gonna take some experimenting to find your preference.  I make it a point to taste my brines to help me get a feel.  Last cured brine was 3/4C.  I like mine 2:1 sugar:salt.
> 
> Lot's of guys soak to remove excess salt.  Try a day and change water a few times.  Then do a fry taste and see if you are OK.



 appreciate the input.  Very helpful.


----------



## frankljs

biteme7951 said:


> Pops recipe calls for 3-4 weeks for a whole ham.



Since I injected and used the higher amount of salt, i just might remove at 2-3 weeks


----------



## chopsaw

Wanted to ask ,, did you rinse the surface when you took it out ? What cuts were salty ? Did you smoke them or was a fry test salty ?


----------



## frankljs

chopsaw said:


> Wanted to ask ,, did you rinse the surface when you took it out ? What cuts were salty ? Did you smoke them or was a fry test salty ?



Bacon, loin piece and one slice of Ham all fry tested. They were rinsed well. Thanks


----------



## pops6927

Did you use a needle injector or a broadcast injector?  (needle - straight.  broadcast - holes on all four sides.)  
	

		
			
		

		
	












The broadcast injector does a much better job inundating the interior of the meat vs. the needle injector (which is used for "arterial" injection so that the curing brine travels through the pork leg's arteries vs. injecting the muscles.)

You get both with the Morton's Meat Pump -


http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_45_231&products_id=25

Artery pumping the hind leg:


----------



## frankljs

chopsaw said:


> Wanted to ask ,, did you rinse the surface when you took it out ? What cuts were salty ? Did you smoke them or was a fry test salty ?



I have made about 6 bellies with dry cure recipes and have been successful with them. Im no expert for sure, but I know what too salty is. They werent innedible, just gave you a pucker and thirst for water. Haha


----------



## frankljs

pops6927 said:


> Did you use a needle injector or a broadcast injector?  (needle - straight.  broadcast - holes on all four sides.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 358646
> View attachment 358647
> 
> 
> The broadcast injector does a much better job inundating the interior of the meat vs. the needle injector (which is used for "arterial" injection so that the curing brine travels through the pork leg's arteries vs. injecting the muscles.)
> 
> You get both with the Morton's Meat Pump -
> 
> 
> http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_45_231&products_id=25


Needle with two side ports in the ham meat and around bone. 
Thanks


----------



## daveomak

frankljs
, afternoon...   To make yourself a custom brine/cure solution, weigh the meat..  weigh out water 1/2 the weight of the meat...  Add the 2 weights together and weigh out 2% salt, 1% white sugar and 1 tsp. of cure#1 for every 5#'s of water+meat weight..  dissolve the ingredients in the water...  do not heat the cure#1...  If you want to warm a small amount of water from the brine, do so,dissolve the salt and sugar...  add it back to the original volume...  cool the mix below 80..  add the cure.... then cool the brine mix to below 40 deg. F....  add the refrigerated meat...
Now you have an equilibrium brine/cure mix...  the meat will not get too salty and you can leave it in as long  as you like..  Keep it below 40 deg. F...

My buddy used to have his bear hams cure/smoked...  he found bear meat sucked up salt really good...  He had to cut the normal salt in half to get good bear ham...


----------



## frankljs

daveomak said:


> frankljs
> , afternoon...   To make yourself a custom brine/cure solution, weigh the meat..  weigh out water 1/2 the weight of the meat...  Add the 2 weights together and weigh out 2% salt, 1% white sugar and 1 tsp. of cure#1 for every 5#'s of water+meat weight..  dissolve the ingredients in the water...  do not heat the cure#1...  If you want to warm a small amount of water from the brine, do so,dissolve the salt and sugar...  add it back to the original volume...  cool the mix below 80..  add the cure.... then cool the brine mix to below 40 deg. F....  add the refrigerated meat...
> Now you have an equilibrium brine/cure mix...  the meat will not get too salty and you can leave it in as long  as you like..  Keep it below 40 deg. F...
> 
> My buddy used to have his bear hams cure/smoked...  he found bear meat sucked up salt really good...  He had to cut the normal salt in half to get good bear ham...



I think i used one of your equilibrium brines the first time I did a ham over a year ago. Haha,I  forgot to inject and it didn’t cure all the way through. The rest was good though. 
I will add this to my notes too. Ty sir!  I didn’t want to think too hard this go around so I used pops Brine. 
If you aren’t making mistakes you not learning. Thanks again


----------



## pops6927

daveomak said:


> frankljs
> , afternoon...   To make yourself a custom brine/cure solution, weigh the meat..  weigh out water 1/2 the weight of the meat...  Add the 2 weights together and weigh out 2% salt, 1% white sugar and 1 tsp. of cure#1 for every 5#'s of water+meat weight..  dissolve the ingredients in the water...  do not heat the cure#1...  If you want to warm a small amount of water from the brine, do so,dissolve the salt and sugar...  add it back to the original volume...  cool the mix below 80..  add the cure.... then cool the brine mix to below 40 deg. F....  add the refrigerated meat...
> Now you have an equilibrium brine/cure mix...  the meat will not get too salty and you can leave it in as long  as you like..  Keep it below 40 deg. F...
> 
> My buddy used to have his bear hams cure/smoked...  he found bear meat sucked up salt really good...  He had to cut the normal salt in half to get good bear ham...



Wow - way too much difficulty, computing, figuring, heating, cooling..... KISS


----------



## frankljs

frankljs said:


> I think i used one of your equilibrium brines the first time I did a ham over a year ago. Haha,I  forgot to inject and it didn’t cure all the way through. The rest was good though.
> I will add this to my notes too. Ty sir!  I didn’t want to think too hard this go around so I used pops Brine.
> If you aren’t making mistakes you not learning. Thanks again





daveomak said:


> frankljs
> , afternoon...   To make yourself a custom brine/cure solution, weigh the meat..  weigh out water 1/2 the weight of the meat...  Add the 2 weights together and weigh out 2% salt, 1% white sugar and 1 tsp. of cure#1 for every 5#'s of water+meat weight..  dissolve the ingredients in the water...  do not heat the cure#1...  If you want to warm a small amount of water from the brine, do so,dissolve the salt and sugar...  add it back to the original volume...  cool the mix below 80..  add the cure.... then cool the brine mix to below 40 deg. F....  add the refrigerated meat...
> Now you have an equilibrium brine/cure mix...  the meat will not get too salty and you can leave it in as long  as you like..  Keep it below 40 deg. F...
> 
> My buddy used to have his bear hams cure/smoked...  he found bear meat sucked up salt really good...  He had to cut the normal salt in half to get good bear ham...



I bet I have about 75lbs of meat between three buckets. Thus the reasoning for Pops brine. Tried to keep it simple. Thanks


----------



## frankljs

BURN!


----------



## frankljs

So after pulling hams at 2.5 weeks and bacon at 2. Cold smoking for 16 hours. The Hams were the best! The bacon needed to soak a day in water to get the saltines reduced to my liking. But everything turned out great! I forgot to get a Bacon pic


----------



## daveomak

pops6927 said:


> Wow - way too much difficulty, computing, figuring, heating, cooling..... *KISS*



Am I the person you are calling stupid ???


----------



## pops6927

daveomak said:


> Am I the person you are calling stupid ???



Keep It Simple Sailor


----------



## daveomak

OK....  Thanks....


----------



## Steve H

Hmm, I have about 5 pounds of pork boneless country ribs. I wonder how they would go with this brine. Then on to either cold smoke. Or hot smoke. Anybody try this?


----------



## bullfam

I am glad I still had the link to this brine. I haven't had time to do much of any smoking in about 2 years. So I had some time on my hands and figured I would smoke some Canadian bacon, regular bacon, and a ham. I slaughtered and butchered one of my guinea hogs so I would have some very fresh pig to work with and today they all get brined and the process starts. I am excited!!! You are the best pops and so is this brine.


----------



## Ishi

Okay question for the group. I bought a 5 # pork belly last night. I’m brining it in a Briner Jr bucket. One gallon wasn’t enough to cover it so I made another gallon and still used all the ingredients for the second gallon,sugar,salt,PP#1, Brown Sugar. Now it’s covered I hope I did this right??.... feedback needed thanks


----------



## chopsaw

It's per gallon of water . So yes if I read you right . You doubled  it .


----------



## Ishi

chopsaw said:


> It's per gallon of water . So yes if I read you right . You doubled  it .


Yes plus all the ingredients! I might loose sleep over this curing stuff:eek: Thanks for the fast reply


----------



## pops6927

Yes!  You did it right!  I've done turkeys with 8 gallons of curing brine before.  I just used the same proportionate amounts for each gallon, keeping the concentration the same; it's just that simple.  No worries!


----------



## bobrap

Quick question, please.  If I leave out the brown sugar (bacon burns a bit, i guess really the sugar browning) will the bacon come out a bit more salty?  Would one just substitute regular sugar for the brown to help with the "burning"?  Thanks.


----------



## biteme7951

Any exposed sugars (white or dark) placed on the bacon prior to smoking can burn when actually cooking the bacon. Sugars absorbed from the brine should not burn when cooking finished product.


----------



## Bearcarver

Steve H said:


> Hmm, I have about 5 pounds of pork boneless country ribs. I wonder how they would go with this brine. Then on to either cold smoke. Or hot smoke. Anybody try this?




Sure, It would work Great with Pops' Brine !!!
For Boneless CSRs I'd recommend you Smoke them hot enough to get them to 145° Internal Temp.

Bear


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## Steve H

Sounds like  plan. I'll be doing this when I get home from vacation.


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## Steve H

Well, I got back from vacation yesterday. Had a great time. This morning I'm putting on the country style ribs I had swimming in Pops brine for 11 days. Can't wait until tonight!


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## Smkryng

pops6927 said:


> real simple curing brine:
> 
> for every 1 gallon of water, add:
> 
> 1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet)
> 
> 1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji]
> 
> 1 cup brown sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] brown sugar mix
> 
> 1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt
> 
> stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over meat, inject if necessary to cure from inside-out as well as outside-in
> 
> weight down with a partially filled 1 qt or 1 gal. ziploc bag or bags to keep meat immersed
> 
> Curing times vary with meat, but generally overnight to 2-3 days for chickens and turkeys, 8-10 days buckboard bacon, 10-14 days belly bacon, pork shoulder, whole butts, 3-4 weeks whole hams, 10-20 days corned beef (fresh beef roasts, briskets, rolled rib roasts, etc.)   If whole muscle is more than 2" thick, then inject so it can cure i/o as well as o/i, and/or in and around bone structures, etc.
> 
> You can add any other flavorings you'd like, this is just the basic curing brine. 1 heaping tablespoon of cure is about 1 ounce.  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).  You can experiment with different concentrations as long as you keep it between those parameters:


Have you used the Splenda in this yourself? If so how’d ya like it?


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## butchdon

So this recipe calls for a total of 2 cups of sugar and only 1/3 to 1 cup of salt?

Just go my Prague Powder today


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## chef jimmyj

Yes. The sweetness is good on Ham. I like Belly Bacon more savory so I use only 1 cup or less. I also use 1/2 cup Kosher Salt (1/3 cup TS ) with no soaking  needed. Hams and large cuts should be injected. Bellies, loins can just soak...JJ


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## chopsaw

For 1 gallon water I use 1/2 cup salt then 1/2 cup each of white sugar and brown sugar . 1Tbls cure 1 .


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## pops6927

Smkryng said:


> Have you used the Splenda in this yourself? If so how’d ya like it?



Yes, I use Splenda or Stevia, and Splenda brown sugar.  To me, it tastes just the same.


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## wbf610

I’m going to try some bacon eventually. Just to be sure, cold smoking would be fine after this cure?


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## chef jimmyj

Yep...JJ


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## wbf610

chef jimmyj said:


> Yep...JJ


Thanks JJ.  I’ve been reading too much, and see people hot smoking to 140 after curing, etc etc, and was confused.  

My wife got used to some bacon we get near my parents (3.5 hours away), and nothing local comes close.  I normally buy and bring 20-30 pounds home when we visit them, but it’s been a few months and we are out!   It’s time I learn to make it at home.


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## chef jimmyj

It don't  get easier than Pop's brine. Folks hot smoke for a deeper color or to save cooking time but cold smoke lets A LOT more smoke flavor penetrate...JJ


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## Bearcarver

chef jimmyj said:


> It don't  get easier than Pop's brine. Folks hot smoke for a deeper color or to save cooking time but cold smoke lets A LOT more smoke flavor penetrate...JJ




That's a matter of opinion, and what you're calling "Hot".
I get better & quicker color & flavor by smoking my Bacon at Smoker Temps between 100° and 130° (Warm smoking) than at below 100°.
I would have to do at least twice the time at 80° than at 120° to get the same results.

As for "Hot smoking" (over 200°) I only finish my CB & BBB that way. Never tried Belly Bacon that way, but I know Pops does, so it can't be too bad.

Bear


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## wbf610

Bearcarver said:


> That's a matter of opinion, and what you're calling "Hot".
> I get better & quicker color & flavor by smoking my Bacon at Smoker Temps between 100° and 130° (Warm smoking) than at below 100°.
> I would have to do at least twice the time at 80° than at 120° to get the same results.
> 
> As for "Hot smoking" (over 200°) I only finish my CB & BBB that way. Never tried Belly Bacon that way, but I know Pops does, so it can't be too bad.
> 
> Bear


Thanks.  The bacon, after curing, doesn’t have to be taken to 140 correct?


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## pops6927

There are 3 stages to cooking pork.
Stage 1: from 38° to 134° - Raw
Stage 2: from 135° to 144° - Partially cooked
Stage 3: from 145° and up - Fully Cooked

It is your choice to whatever plateau you wish to achieve.  The first two require additional cooking to get above 145°.  Frying, baking, boiling, broiling, grilling; whatever cooking method you would prefer.  The last requires no further cooking, can be eaten safely hot, warm, cool or cold, but refrigerate afterwards.

I know me.  I grew up in a store that smoked meats.  Safe or unsafe, I would nibble.  I would even suck on the ends of the ham bags after smoking when I was little (unless dad caught me!).  I love smoked meats.  So, I advocate bringing it to fully cooked to destroy the most pathogens possible because........ I know me.


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## wbf610

pops6927 said:


> There are 3 stages to cooking pork.
> Stage 1: from 38° to 134° - Raw
> Stage 2: from 135° to 144° - Partially cooked
> Stage 3: from 145° and up - Fully Cooked
> 
> It is your choice to whatever plateau you wish to achieve.  The first two require additional cooking to get above 145°.  Frying, baking, boiling, broiling, grilling; whatever cooking method you would prefer.  The last requires no further cooking, can be eaten safely hot, warm, cool or cold, but refrigerate afterwards.
> 
> I know me.  I grew up in a store that smoked meats.  Safe or unsafe, I would nibble.  I would even suck on the ends of the ham bags after smoking when I was little (unless dad caught me!).  I love smoked meats.  So, I advocate bringing it to fully cooked to destroy the most pathogens possible because........ I know me.


Thanks pops.  I meant the smoking part.  I will pan fry for final prep, but no need to to 145 after curing during the smoking portion.


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## pops6927

Entirely up to you, your preference.  I smoke everything to 145° or higher; I don't want someone getting sick or in danger (like my sons or grandkids, relatives, and friends) because I didn't cook something enough and knew better.


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## wbf610

pops6927 said:


> Entirely up to you, your preference.  I smoke everything to 145° or higher; I don't want someone getting sick or in danger (like my sons or grandkids, relatives, and friends) because I didn't cook something enough and knew better.


Thanks


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## Bearcarver

wbf610 said:


> Thanks.  The bacon, after curing, doesn’t have to be taken to 140 correct?




Like Pops said, you can take it to wherever you want, as long as it gets to 145° IT some time, in some way, before you eat it.
Also: I have never had any Fat render from my Bacons at Smoker Temps below 140°.

Bear


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## Winterrider

All good info, thanks Pops.


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## chef jimmyj

The benefit of SMF is there is lots of ways folks here prepare, cure,and smoke meat. Members get the opportunity to see various options and choose how they want to go. Both cold and warm smoking make tasty bacon.
Here's a little science behind Cold vs. Warm Smoking. First, Marianski points out that smoke penetration is deeper at temps below 100°F and includes the typical temps various regions in Europe use. Second is an article from Thermoworks describing what changes take place as we cook meat, aka denature the proteins. As the meat surface water proteins denature, smoke flavor can't penetrate and only accumulates on the surface. As you will see, proteins begin to denature at 105°F and by 130°F it is essentially cooked. Any internal temp we take meat beyond 130 is for safety, 145 for pork,  and or desired doneness.

Taken from Marianski's web site...




...




Cold smoking allows us total smoke penetration inside of the meat. Very little hardening of the outside surface of the meat or casing occurs and smoke penetrates the meat easily.

Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.

You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C). Cold smoking assures us of total smoke penetration inside of the meat. The loss of moisture also is uniform in all areas and the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Cold smoking is not a continuous process, it is stopped (no smoke) a few times to allow fresh air into the smoker.

From Thermoworks. This is an overview of what happens when
Meat is cooked. With bacon we are only concerned with denaturization up to 145°F.

Denaturation begins at roughly 105°F and continues upwards to temperatures in excess of 200°F. Changes in proteins can be seen in the form of changing colors (i.e. red to brown) and can be tracked at each stage by the use of a meat thermometer. Ideal cooking temperatures found on the chef-recommended temperature chartare indications that sufficient denaturation has occurred to render the meat to the color and texture of your choice.

However, just knowing what color and texture it is isn’t good enough for us. We want to know (and we assume you do, too) what’s happening to your meat as it passes through the various temperature stages.

As meat approaches 105°F, the calpains (calcium proteins) begin to denature and lose activity; this happens until about 122°F. Since enzyme activity increases up to those temperatures, slow cooking can provide a significant aging effect during the cooking process. At *125°F meat is rare. Ideally, you’ll want to sear the meat quickly to kill any surface bacteria.

Above 125°F, meat begins to develop a white opacity as heat sensitive myosin (motor proteins) denature. Coagulation produces large enough clumps to scatter light and red meat becomes pink. This is where the meat moves from rare to medium rare (*130°F).

Further cooking (towards *140°F) begins to breakdown the red myoglobin (iron/oxygen binding protein) and turns it into a tan colored hemichrome. It’s at this point that meat turns from pink, to brown and then to grey.

During this time, meat releases a lot of juices and begins to shrink noticeably. In a very rapid succession it can move from medium rare, to medium, to medium well. And, if you’re not careful, you can very quickly overcook your meat.

At *160°F, connective tissue begins to liquify. Proteins repel the water and constrict causing them to get closer together and grow stronger. This is what gives well-done meat it’s tough and dry texture. At the risk of ruining your main course, you would never want to take your higher quality cuts of meat to this temperature.

However, if you’re cooking low and slow with traditional BBQ cuts, it’s taken you hours to get to this point and things are just getting warmed up. As you accelerate past 180°F and up to 200°F, collagen begins to melt and turn into a gelatin. This gelatin is able to absorb up to ten times it’s weight in water. The moisture that is repelled by the protein is absorbed into the gelatin and the meat stays moist.


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## wbf610

Bearcarver said:


> Like Pops said, you can take it to wherever you want, as long as it gets to 145° IT some time, in some way, before you eat it.
> Also: I have never had any Fat render from my Bacons at Smoker Temps below 140°.
> 
> Bear


Thanks Bear.


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## eh1bbq

Hey all, quick question, hope someone can help.  Have some FS Cure from Canadiana land and it's 5% Nitrite. There are varying opinions on the internet of course, so wanted to get SMF's thoughts. One person suggested using 1.25x as much of the FS cure as you would Cure #1 in this recipe. Thoughts on this calculation? Given the smaller amount of cure overall, the extra salt would be negligible, but want to make sure my calculations are on point. You used to be able to change the nitrite %age on one of the better calculators out there but that feature has been hard coded as read only for Cure #1 now unfortunately.

Based on my calcs, the 1.25x would work and still be well under the max recommendation for nitrite ppm but just wanted to get another opinion/thought.


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## chef jimmyj

You can use 1 for 1 with Cure #1. Cure does it's job over a range of concentration from 50 ppm min to 200 ppm max. If a Cure #1 calc gives an amount for 156 ppm, using your cure will give 154 ppm. Negligible difference...JJ


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## jcj112562

I am about to mix up a bunch of brine to do some buckboard bacon, pork loin, and an eye round for dried beef. Looks easy, and I love the knowledge on this site!  Thanks, Pops!!!


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## daveomak

I'm not sure if it's OK to mix different meats in the same batch of cure/brine...


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## jcj112562

Dave,

I will have the meats separated in different containers, and doing the added salt that Pops suggested for dried beef curing. Making a bunch, and then doling out in each lug or other containment device to fill my downstairs fridge...LOL...

John


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## Steve H

I have, yes, another question about smoking pork loin! My last batch was made with pop's brine and hot smoked. And is fantastic. I'm gearing up to do between 15 and 20 pounds. This time I was thinking doing it cold smoked. And then brought to 145 in the oven or in the smoker. My ? is how long should you cold smoke? I know it's a personal preference. Just looking for a guide line.


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## chef jimmyj

That would depend on what you are making smoke with and how much time you can spare. I use an AMNPS and get 10-12 hours of hands off smoke. So I put 10-12 hours on Belly Bacon. If you need to Feed a smoker, then put as much as you have time to sit and feed wood...JJ


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## zwiller

I did 10hrs once and felt it needed more.  Plan to try 24hrs next time.  Over the years I continue to add more time to my holiday turkey and is also approaching 24rs now.


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## Steve H

chef jimmyj said:


> That would depend on what you are making smoke with and how much time you can spare. I use an AMNPS and get 10-12 hours of hands off smoke. So I put 10-12 hours on Belly Bacon. If you need to Feed a smoker, then put as much as you have time to sit and feed wood...JJ



If I go that route. I'll be using either my tray or 12" tube in the mailbox.
Maybe go 5 or so hours cold smoking. Then finish it with hot smoking.


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## pops6927

I am not qualified to answer your question because I do not cold smoke, only hot smoke.  Too much chance of improper food safety practices.


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## smokerjim

you could always do a  double smoke if you got the time, definitely worth the effort


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## remsr

What is the difference between hot smoking bacon a cold smoking bacon? I have tried it both ways and my bacon comes out tuff. I have even tried wet  curing with Prague powder and dry curing with Tender quick, it  still comes out . 
Randy,
 I just moved from Minnesota to Florida and no longer cold weather for cold smoking, but the good part is that I can smoke year round.


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## chef jimmyj

Steve H
 , because the loin is Cured, you can Cold Smoke as long as you wish, then Hot Smoke or Oven cook to 145°F.



 remsr
 ,Hot Smoking with Cured Meat is any temp over 170°F. (Uncured meat, 225°F+)
Cold Smoking is Ambient to 170°F.
Ambient can be 36°F in Northern States or 110°F in the South. As soon long as what you are Smoking is Cured, you have a big range of temps you can work with.
Tender or Tough depends on meat Cut, the Final Temp you cook to and/or are to eating the meat Cold or Cooked again.
Example...Belly Bacon can be Smoked for 24 hours at 100°F. You wack off a slice and eat it and you will be chewing Smokey Bubble Gum! Bake or Pan Fry the Bacon to Golden Brown and it will be Tender Crisp. In contrast, Cured Loin Bacon, aka Canadian Bacon. If Cold Smoked at 160-170 for 24 hours, until the IT is 145°F...Eaten Hot from the Smoker or Cold the next day, it will be juicy and tender. IF you choose to pan fry it until well browned, it can get tough and Dry. I do no more than just reheat it in a hot pan with Bacon Grease or Butter. Always Tender...JJ


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## Bearcarver

remsr said:


> What is the difference between hot smoking bacon a cold smoking bacon? I have tried it both ways and my bacon comes out tuff. I have even tried wet  curing with Prague powder and dry curing with Tender quick, it  still comes out .
> Randy,
> I just moved from Minnesota to Florida and no longer cold weather for cold smoking, but the good part is that I can smoke year round.




Hi Randy!!
How many times have you made Bacon that was tough?
How many times have you made Bacon that wasn't tough?
Maybe the Pigs were Weight lifters or Piglympic Athletes!!

Bear


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## remsr

I have never made any that wasn’t tuff.
Randy,


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## Bearcarver

remsr said:


> I have never made any that wasn’t tuff.
> Randy,




And HOW MANY was that?
If it was 2, you might have just gotten tough hunks of Belly.
But if it was 10 or 15, I doubt if they were all just tough hunks of Belly!

Bear


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## pigbark

Rest In Peace.


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