# Where to buy Morton's Tender Quick and size



## dougmays

i want to try my first jerky smoke this weekend but i cannot find any Tender Quick.  I've tried a couple publix's so far...any suggestions of a better place? or do most order it online?

Also is the 2lb bag the smallest quantity...most recipes call for just a little bit so i'd prefer to buy a smaller package so it doens't go bad. 

Lastly, kind of unrelated...how long can i estimate the jerky to cook..i've done alot of reading and i've seen times ranging from 5-18hours.  i'm assuming i'll do less then 5lbs of jerky for my first time.

thanks


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## Bearcarver

Try this Morton's locator---Sometimes it helps:

http://www.mortonsalt.com/store-locator/index.html

A 2 pound bag really isn't very big.

I don't think they sell any smaller amount.

Depending on where you get it, the cost will be between $3  &  $6 for the 2 pound bag, and it keeps for years (at least).

Bear


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## dougmays

a follow up question...if i plan to eat or give all of this jerky away within a week d you think i need mortons? or should i always use it just to be safe in the smoking process?


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## Bearcarver

Curing meat makes it possible to smoke meat for longer than 4 hours at a low temp.

Without curing, meat has to get through the Danger Zone (40˚ to 140˚) in less than 4 hours (with a few technical exceptions).

Lot's of guys smoke Jerky without curing it first.

I would not.

Bear


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## dougmays

seems like that should be very easy to do since the cuts of meat are so thin....for non-cured meat what temp would you smoke at? 120? 150?


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## dale5351

In our area, MTQ is also hard to find in the usual grocery stores.  Only place we can get it is out in the country at a Southern States Coop.  It does come in a 2-lb bag for about $6.00 and the bag lasts us for several years.  We only use it to make our corned beef for Saint Patrick's Day.  Keep it in the original bag, put inside of a larger plastic jar with a screw top lid. 

Since it is basically salt and salt-peter, I don't think it should go bad.


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## Bearcarver

dale5351 said:


> In our area, MTQ is also hard to find in the usual grocery stores.  Only place we can get it is out in the country at a Southern States Coop.  It does come in a 2-lb bag for about $6.00 and the bag lasts us for several years.  We only use it to make our corned beef for Saint Patrick's Day.  Keep it in the original bag, put inside of a larger plastic jar with a screw top lid.
> 
> Since it is basically salt and salt-peter, I don't think it should go bad.


Dale,

You aren't very far from me.

Do you have a Wegman's down there?

That's where I got mine for about $4 per two pound bag.

Bear


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## dale5351

I am familiar with Wegmans, and have visited their stores in NY state.  They do have two stores in Maryland now, closest is 30-40 minute drive. 

They are building one in our city, but it will probably not open until 2012.  They had to jump through a lot of hoops because of opposition from the local grocery union.  That delayed breaking ground for at least a year.  We look forward to them opening -- nice store.


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## bilder

If you cannot find TQ in your area, you can always make a substitute using pink salt, which is easy to buy online and a little goes a long way. You can also check with your local butcher supply shop and they will usually carry it.  Here is one of the cures I use. I got this from another source online and have used it for a variety of meats.

This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.

*Basic Dry Cure:*

1 pound/450 grams pickling salt
8 ounces/225 grams granulated sugar
2 ounces/55 grams pink salt (InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1; or TCM)
_Makes about 3 1/2 cups_
*Directions:*

Combine all ingredients and mix well. It is important to mix this thoroughly to ensure that the pink salt and other ingredients are equally distributed.
I used a stand mixer with a paddle attachment (do not use the whisk). I mixed the ingredients at speed #2 for two minutes. Scraped the sides and mixed for two more minutes.

For meat up to four pounds measure 1 tablespoon per pound.
The actual measurement should be 2 ounces per 5 pounds of meat. Which comes to about 2.25 teaspoons per pound, but you don't have to be exact when using a dry cure.

Store in an air tight container away from sunlight, and it will last indefinitely.
If hard lumps form during storage discard and make a new batch. If the lumps fall apart easily with a little pressure the cure is still good to use.

To use the Basic Cure Mix as part of your favorite curing recipes, measure out the amount per pound that your need, then you can add your additional seasonings such as additional sugar, garlic, onions and/or herbs (do not add additional salt).This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.


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## mballi3011

Now I have always had to order it from morton and I know you get beat up on the shipping but you don't have to order that often. Then if  you have some friends you guys can get together and make a big order that way the shipping doesn't hurt that much.


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## dougmays

i just dawned on me...Publix will special order anything for you.  so i just called them and there manager is going to give me a call soon


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## Bearcarver

bilder said:


> If you cannot find TQ in your area, you can always make a substitute using pink salt, which is easy to buy online and a little goes a long way. You can also check with your local butcher supply shop and they will usually carry it.  Here is one of the cures I use. I got this from another source online and have used it for a variety of meats.
> 
> This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.
> 
> *Basic Dry Cure:*
> 
> 1 pound/450 grams pickling salt
> 8 ounces/225 grams granulated sugar
> 2 ounces/55 grams pink salt (InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1; or TCM)
> _Makes about 3 1/2 cups_
> *Directions:*
> 
> Combine all ingredients and mix well. It is important to mix this thoroughly to ensure that the pink salt and other ingredients are equally distributed.
> I used a stand mixer with a paddle attachment (do not use the whisk). I mixed the ingredients at speed #2 for two minutes. Scraped the sides and mixed for two more minutes.
> 
> For meat up to four pounds measure 1 tablespoon per pound.
> The actual measurement should be 2 ounces per 5 pounds of meat. Which comes to about 2.25 teaspoons per pound, but you don't have to be exact when using a dry cure.
> 
> Store in an air tight container away from sunlight, and it will last indefinitely.
> If hard lumps form during storage discard and make a new batch. If the lumps fall apart easily with a little pressure the cure is still good to use.
> 
> To use the Basic Cure Mix as part of your favorite curing recipes, measure out the amount per pound that your need, then you can add your additional seasonings such as additional sugar, garlic, onions and/or herbs (do not add additional salt).This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.


You can not substitute anything for TQ.

Morton's adds Propylene Glycol to it's mix, and bonds it, making it so it stays mixed in proper amounts for dry curing.

With that substitute, the various specific gravities would cause stratification.

Also that is the first time I have ever heard anyone say "You don't have to be exact when using a dry cure".

That's scary!

I didn't check any of your other statements, as I only use TQ (so far).

Bear


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## bilder

The above recipe comes from what many consider the bible of meat curing......Charcuterie.  Not sure what is scary about that, but to each his own I guess.

Of course you can use something other than TQ to cure meats.  Saying you can only use TQ to cure meat is like saying you can only use Sweet Baby Ray's to make BBQ.

TQ is a cure mix, nothing more.  It is the most popular, but not the only one. 

There are many other cures out there besides TQ. Many of the  jerky seasonings and summer sausage packs out there are simply another kind of cure mix.   TQ is easy to use, but not always easy to find.  If you cannot find it, there are other methods or mixes out there that you can use.  And not all of them use the exact ratio of nitrates in their cure.  All fall within a certain range, but no two are alike.

Nesco makes a jerky cure.  So does Cabela's and several other retailers out there.  If you cannot find TQ and do not want to make your own cure mix, you can use one of them.  *Just follow the directions for the particular cure you have and you will be fine. *


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## beer-b-q

bilder said:


> If you cannot find TQ in your area, you can always make a substitute using pink salt, which is easy to buy online and a little goes a long way. You can also check with your local butcher supply shop and they will usually carry it.  Here is one of the cures I use. I got this from another source online and have used it for a variety of meats.
> 
> This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.
> 
> *Basic Dry Cure:*
> 
> 1 pound/450 grams pickling salt
> 8 ounces/225 grams granulated sugar
> 2 ounces/55 grams pink salt (InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1; or TCM)
> _Makes about 3 1/2 cups_
> *Directions:*
> 
> Combine all ingredients and mix well. It is important to mix this thoroughly to ensure that the pink salt and other ingredients are equally distributed.
> I used a stand mixer with a paddle attachment (do not use the whisk). I mixed the ingredients at speed #2 for two minutes. Scraped the sides and mixed for two more minutes.
> 
> For meat up to four pounds measure 1 tablespoon per pound.
> The actual measurement should be 2 ounces per 5 pounds of meat. Which comes to about 2.25 teaspoons per pound, but you don't have to be exact when using a dry cure.
> 
> Store in an air tight container away from sunlight, and it will last indefinitely.
> If hard lumps form during storage discard and make a new batch. If the lumps fall apart easily with a little pressure the cure is still good to use.
> 
> To use the Basic Cure Mix as part of your favorite curing recipes, measure out the amount per pound that your need, then you can add your additional seasonings such as additional sugar, garlic, onions and/or herbs (do not add additional salt).This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.




Sounds Dangerous to me, probably a good way to get Nitrite Poisoning.  Government Regulations are very specific on safe amounts of Cure #1(Sodium Nitrite)

Prague Powder #_1_. Insta _Cure_[emoji]8482[/emoji] #_1_ contains salt and sodium nitrite (6.25%). Use _1_ level teaspoon per 5 lbs. of meat.


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## bilder

Beer-B-Q said:


> bilder said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you cannot find TQ in your area, you can always make a substitute using pink salt, which is easy to buy online and a little goes a long way. You can also check with your local butcher supply shop and they will usually carry it.  Here is one of the cures I use. I got this from another source online and have used it for a variety of meats.
> 
> This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.
> 
> *Basic Dry Cure:*
> 
> 1 pound/450 grams pickling salt
> 8 ounces/225 grams granulated sugar
> 2 ounces/55 grams pink salt (InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1; or TCM)
> _Makes about 3 1/2 cups_
> *Directions:*
> 
> Combine all ingredients and mix well. It is important to mix this thoroughly to ensure that the pink salt and other ingredients are equally distributed.
> I used a stand mixer with a paddle attachment (do not use the whisk). I mixed the ingredients at speed #2 for two minutes. Scraped the sides and mixed for two more minutes.
> 
> For meat up to four pounds measure 1 tablespoon per pound.
> The actual measurement should be 2 ounces per 5 pounds of meat. Which comes to about 2.25 teaspoons per pound, but you don't have to be exact when using a dry cure.
> 
> Store in an air tight container away from sunlight, and it will last indefinitely.
> If hard lumps form during storage discard and make a new batch. If the lumps fall apart easily with a little pressure the cure is still good to use.
> 
> To use the Basic Cure Mix as part of your favorite curing recipes, measure out the amount per pound that your need, then you can add your additional seasonings such as additional sugar, garlic, onions and/or herbs (do not add additional salt).This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds Dangerous to me, probably a good way to get Nitrite Poisoning.  Government Regulations are very specific on safe amounts of Cure #1(Sodium Nitrite)
> 
> Prague Powder #_1_. Insta _Cure_[emoji]8482[/emoji] #_1_ contains salt and sodium nitrite (6.25%). Use _1_ level teaspoon per 5 lbs. of meat.
Click to expand...

Which is the ratio you get from the above recipe.  Maybe plus or minus a fraction of a percent, depending on how well you measure.  Would take a lot more than that to hurt you.

Our forefathers cured some pretty tasty meats without digital scales or Federal Regulations.  Use common sense and you should be fine.


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## fpnmf

Gets popcorn...leans back... I love this place.


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## bilder

Here is some information on Nitrite poisoning:

The following information on nitrite toxicity is from "GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) Food Ingredients: Nitrates and Nitrites (Including Nitrosamines)," 1972. This report was prepared for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) by Battele-Columbus Laboratories and Department of Commerce, Springfield, VA 22151.

According to this source, the fatal dose of potassium nitrate for adult humans is in the range of 30 to 35 grams consumed as a single dose; the fatal dose of sodium nitrite is in the range of 22 to 23 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. Lower doses of sodium or potassium nitrate or sodium nitrite have caused acute methemoglobinemia (when hemoglobin loses its ability to carry oxygen), particularly in infants, resulting from conversion of nitrate to nitrite after consumption. There is no confirmable evidence in the literature on the carcinogenicity (cancer-causing capacity) of nitrate as such.

*It has been reported that people normally consume more nitrates from their vegetable intake than from the cured meat products they eat.* Spinach, beets, radishes, celery, and cabbages are among the vegetables that generally contain very high concentrations of nitrates (_J. Food Sci._, 52:1632). The nitrate content of vegetables is affected by maturity, soil conditions, fertilizer, variety, etc. It has been estimated that 10 percent of the human exposure to nitrite in the digestive tract comes from cured meats and 90 percent comes from vegetables and other sources. Nitrates can be reduced to nitrites by certain microorganisms present in foods and in the gastrointestinal tract. This has resulted in nitrite toxicity in infants fed vegetables with a high nitrate level. No evidence currently exists implicating nitrite itself as a carcinogen.

*To obtain 22 milligrams of sodium nitrite per kilogram of body weight (a lethal dose), a 154-pound adult would have to consume, at once, 18.57 pounds of cured meat product containing 200 ppm sodium nitrite (because nitrite is rapidly converted to nitric oxide during the curing process, the 18.57 pound figure should be tripled at least). Even if a person could eat that amount of cured meat, salt, not nitrite, probably would be the toxic factor.*

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0974.html


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## beer-b-q

Yes, There are lots of commercially made cures out there but they follow the FDA on approved amounts of Nitrite...

TQ has .05% Sodium Nitrite and .05% Sodium Nitrate so your mix is not a replacement for TQ...

Cure #1 contains 6.25% Sodium Nitrite and NO Sodium Nitrate.  Cure #1 is used 1oz per 25# of meat or 1 tsp per 5# of meat (Ground or Whole Muscle).


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## bilder

Beer-B-Q said:


> Yes, There are lots of commercially made cures out there but they follow the FDA on approved amounts of Nitrite...
> 
> TQ has .05% Sodium Nitrite and .05% Sodium Nitrate so your mix is not a replacement for TQ...
> 
> Cure #1 contains 6.25% Sodium Nitrite and NO Sodium Nitrate.  Cure #1 is used 1oz per 25# of meat or 1 tsp per 5# of meat (Ground or Whole Muscle).


Cure #1-  Quarter teaspoon per pound of meat.

TQ - One Tablespoon per pound of meat.

There are three teaspoons in a tablespoon.  That means TQ is measured at 12 times the amount of straight Cure #1.

0.05% x 12= 6%

So, TQ and the recipe given above are 0.25% off of each other in Nitrite content, with the recipe actually coming in a tad under the Government recommendation, not over.  I am not going to loose any sleep over 0.25%.

Both will cure meat just fine.  Relax and enjoy the jerky.


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## Bearcarver

I didn't say you can't use any other cure but TQ. I said "I Haven't".

All I said was that you can't make a substitute for TQ, and you can do what you wish, safe or not safe, but you should not be telling people that that recipe is a substitute for TQ, and I personally wish there was a way to delete that DANGEROUS statement saying [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]"You don't have to be exact when using a dry cure". [/color]

I hope nobody reads that & thinks it's true, because that is just plain DANGEROUS !

Sometimes it takes days of arguing to overload dangerous statements with safe statements, and I just don't have the time right now.

Bear


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## Bearcarver

bilder said:


> The above recipe comes from what many consider the bible of meat curing......Charcuterie.  Not sure what is scary about that, but to each his own I guess.
> 
> Of course you can use something other than TQ to cure meats.  Saying you can only use TQ to cure meat is like saying you can only use Sweet Baby Ray's to make BBQ.
> 
> TQ is a cure mix, nothing more.  It is the most popular, but not the only one.
> 
> There are many other cures out there besides TQ. Many of the  jerky seasonings and summer sausage packs out there are simply another kind of cure mix.   TQ is easy to use, but not always easy to find.  If you cannot find it, there are other methods or mixes out there that you can use.  And not all of them use the exact ratio of nitrates in their cure.  All fall within a certain range, but no two are alike.
> 
> Nesco makes a jerky cure.  So does Cabela's and several other retailers out there.  If you cannot find TQ and do not want to make your own cure mix, you can use one of them.  *Just follow the directions for the particular cure you have and you will be fine. *


Where did you see me say you can't use anything but TQ????

I said you can't make a substitute for TQ !

And who told you "You don't have to be exact when dry curing?? Charcuterie??  You can't just make things up here--Peoples' lives depend on it. True--Nobody should go 100% on what I say either, but at least what I say won't get somebody sick or worse. And then telling people you're getting info like that from reputable places just makes it all that much worse.

Bear


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## beer-b-q

Worth Reading Especially the Red Highlighted Areas...

Source: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/cure_smoke_pres.html


The National Center for Home Food Preservation
Guide and Literature Review Series:
_Smoking and Curing_ 
[h1]Curing and Smoking Meats for Home Food Preservation
Literature Review and Critical Preservation Points[/h1]Document Use | Preface | Table of Contents | References
[h2]6. Critical Preservation Points[/h2]
These guidelines have been created by the NCHFP using the 2001 Food Code, which are recommendations created by the United States Public Health Service, Food and Drug Administration (PHS/FDA 2001), and other published science-based recommendations as referenced. The guidelines have been reviewed by the National Center for Home Food Preservation’s Advisory Board and external experts. Adhering to these guidelines will minimize the risk of exposure to food poisoning organisms. 
[h3]6.1. General Guidelines[/h3][h4]6.1.1. Sanitation[/h4]
All equipment, work surfaces, and utensils should be cleaned and sanitized before and after use (PHS/FDA 2001). An example of a sanitizing solution for home use is 1 tablespoon of chlorine bleach in a gallon of warm water (Marchello and Garden-Robinson 1998). Cross contamination between raw and/or dirty surfaces with clean or cooked food products should be of prime concern.
[h4]6.1.2. Storage/Refrigeration[/h4]
During storage or refrigeration, raw products must be separated from cooked products. Never store raw products above or in contact with cooked products (PHS/FDA 2001). If necessary, place raw products in pans or utensils approximately 1-2” deep to keep meat juices from contacting with other surfaces.
[h4]*6.1.3. Temperature*[/h4]
*The danger zone for microbial growth is 40-140°F (USDA FSIS 1997b). Therefore, store, age, cure, or otherwise preserve meats in a refrigerator below 40°F. Cooking meats to an internal temperature of 160°F will destroy bacteria that can cause foodborne illness (USDA FSIS 1997b). Any recipe that minimizes preservation time within the temperature danger zone followed by cooking to a safe internal temperature will minimize risks of food poisoning.*
[h3]6.2. Curing Guidelines[/h3][h4]6.2.1. Meats[/h4]
Meat must be fresh prior to applying any preservation method. Curing should not be used to salvage meat that has excessive bacterial growth or spoilage (PHS/FDA 2001). Meat, especially game meat, does not need to be aged, since curing/smoking will act to tenderize it. If aging is desired, age all meats below 40°F. (Cutter 2000).
[h4]6.2.2. Salt.[/h4]
Only food grade salt without additives, e.g., iodine, should be used. Using salt with impurities can produce less desirable results, especially with fish (Turner, no date). Thawing must be monitored and controlled to ensure thoroughness and to prevent temperature abuse. Improperly thawed meat could cause insufficient cure penetration. Temperature abuse can allow spoilage or growth of pathogens (PHS/FDA 2001).
[h4]*6.2.3. Curing Compounds*[/h4]
*Purchase commercially prepared cure mixes and follow instructions carefully (PHS/FDA 2001) or blend cure mixes carefully at home using an accurate scale.*

*Nitrate. Use cure mixtures that contain nitrate (e.g., Prague Powder 2, Insta-Cure 2) for dry-cured products that are not to be cooked, smoked, or refrigerated (PHS/FDA 2001). Dry cure using 3.5 oz. nitrate per 100 lbs. meat maximum or wet cure at a maximum of 700 ppm nitrates (9 CFR Cpt 3. 318.7(c)(4), 381.147(d)(4)).*

*Nitrite. Use cure mixtures that contain nitrite (e.g., Prague Powder 1, Insta-Cure 1) for all meats that require cooking, smoking, or canning (PHS/FDA 2001). Dry cure using 1 oz. nitrite per 100 lbs. meat maximum. For sausages use ¼ oz. per 100 lbs. (Reynolds and Schuler 1982). A 120 ppm concentration is usually sufficient and is the maximum allowed in bacon (PHS/FDA 2001).*

*Nitrites are toxic if used in quantities higher than recommended; therefore caution should be used in their storage and use (PHS/FDA 2001). About 1 g or 14mg/kg body weight sodium nitrite is a lethal dose to an adult human (USDA FSIS 1997b). Mistakenly using sodium nitrite instead of NaCl in typical curing recipes can lead to a lethal dose of nitrite in the incorrectly cured product (Borchert and Cassens 1998). For this reason it is safer to purchase and use curing mixtures rather than pure nitrites (saltpeter).*
[h4]6.2.4. Cure Penetration[/h4]
Cure mixtures do not penetrate into frozen meats. Before curing, it is essential to thaw meats completely first in the refrigerator. Pieces must be prepared to uniform sizes to ensure uniform cure penetration. This is extremely critical for dry and immersion curing (PHS/FDA 2001). *Use an approved recipe for determining the exact amount of curing formulation to be used for a specified weight of meat or meat mixture (**PHS/FDA 2001**).* All surfaces of meat must be rotated and rubbed at intervals of sufficient frequency to ensure cure penetration when a dry curing method is used (PHS/FDA 2001). Immersion curing requires periodic mixing of the batch to facilitate uniform curing (PHS/FDA 2001). *Curing should be carried out at a temperature between 35°F and 40°F. The lower temperature is set for the purpose of ensuring cure penetration and the upper temperature is set to limit microbial growth (**PHS/FDA 2001). Curing solutions must be discarded unless they remain with the same batch of product during its entire curing process –because of the possibility of bacterial growth and cross-contamination, do not reuse brine (PHS/FDA 2001**).*
[h3]*6.3. Smoking*[/h3]
Verify that smokehouses operate as intended (heat, airflow, moisture). Appropriate calibrated thermometers should be used (for cooking temperature and meat internal temperature). Procedures for delivering the appropriate thermal treatment of cooked meats in conformance with the Food Code must be developed and used. Smoke itself, without proper cooking, is not an effective food preservative (Hilderbrand 1999). Caution should be used when smoking meats at temperatures in the danger zone 40-140°F for prolonged periods of time. In such a case meats must have been salted or cured first.
[h4]6.3.1. Smoke Cooking[/h4]
Consumers should smoke cook foods to internal temperatures as listed by the USDA (USDA-FSIS 1999).


Product°FGround Meat & Meat Mixtures Turkey, chicken165Veal, beef, lamb, pork160Fresh Beef Medium Rare145Medium160Well Done170Fresh Veal Medium Rare145Medium160Well Done170Fresh Lamb Medium Rare145Medium160Well Done170Fresh Pork Medium160Well Done170Poultry Chicken, whole180Turkey, whole180Poultry breasts, roast170Poultry thighs, wings180Stuffing (cooked alone or in bird)165Duck & Goose180Ham Fresh (raw)160Pre-cooked (to reheat)140Seafood Fin FishCook until opaque and flakes easily with a fork.Shrimp, lobster, crabShould turn red and flesh should become pearly opaque.ScallopsShould turn milky white or opaque and firm.Clams, mussels, oystersCook until shells open.
Table 6.1. Internal Temperatures for Smoke Cooking of Foods (
USDA-FSIS 1999
).[h4]*6.3.2. Cooling*[/h4]
*Cool cooked products rapidly to below 40°F and keep refrigerated. Cooked fish products should generally be cooled from to 70°F or below within 2 hours and to 40°F or below within another 4 hours (US FDA 1998). Minimize handling of cooked products. Dry (unfermented) products may not be hot smoked until the curing and drying procedures are completed. Semi dry fermented sausage must be heated after fermentation to a time/temperature sufficient to control growth of pathogenic and spoilage organisms of concern.*
[h3]6.4. _Trichinella_[/h3]
Pork products must be treated to destroy _Trichinella_ by (a) Heat: A minimum internal temperature of 130°F(30 min.), 132°F(15 min.), 134°F(6 min.), or 136°F(3 min.), (b) Freezing: 5°F(20 days), -10°F(10 days) or -20°F(6 days) for all pork in pieces not exceeding 6 cu. inches. Double the freezing times for larger pieces up to 27 inches of thickness or (c) some combination of curing, drying, and smoking can kill _Trichinella_, but these are process specific (9 CFR 318.10).

FSIS approved of the use of up to 50% KCl[sub]2[/sub] in place of NaCl for the destruction of trichinae (USDA FSIS 1995c). Wild game (bear, elk, etc.) must be treated to destroy _Trichinella_ by heating to 170°F, since some strains of _Trichinella_ are freeze resistant (CDC 1985).
[h3]6.5. Fish[/h3]
Intentionally under-processed fish (e.g., green herring, or cold smoked fish) should be frozen first to 4°Ffor 7 days to kill parasites (PHS/FDA 2001) or to -10°Ffor at least 7 days (Price and Tom 1995). Because spores of _C. botulinum_ are known to be present in the viscera of fish, any fish product that will be preserved using salt, drying, pickling, or fermentation must be eviscerated prior to processing. Without evisceration, toxin formation is possible during the process. Small fish, less than 5 inches (12.7 cm) in length, that are processed in a manner that prevents toxin formation, and that reach a water phase salt content of 10%, a water activity of below 0.85, or a pH of 4.6 or less are exempt from the evisceration requirement (US FDA 1998). For salted and hot smoked fish, use brine with a minimum salt concentration of 3.5% water phase salt (Hilderbrand 1999). It is not recommended to hot or cold-smoke fish that have not been brined (Schafer 1999).
[h3]6.6. Ham Recommendations[/h3]
For country ham, dry salt cured ham, country cured shoulder ham, or dry-cured bacon, the internal salt content should be 4% when used with nitrates/nitrites or 10% without the use of nitrates/nitrites. Properly prepared dry cured hams are safe to store at room temperature (Reynolds et al., In Press, PHS/FDA 2001). Soak country cured hams in water in the refrigerator (40°F) to reduce salt levels prior to eating (PHS/FDA 2001). High humidity during curing and aging may lead to surface spoilage. Mold may grow on the surface and can be safely washed off.
[h3]*6.7. Sausage*[/h3]
*All recipes should call for final internal temperatures that will destroy trichinae. We do not recommend preparing homemade, non-fermented sausages that are not fully cooked. If you do prepare them, be sure the meat, especially pork, has been properly frozen to destroy trichinae and other parasites. Use a meat thermometer to help insure that meat is kept cold before cooking and that sausage is properly cooked. Cool the sausage quickly after cooking and keep in the refrigerator for short term storage or freezer for long term storage (**Busboom 1996). Semi-dry cured sausages, such as summer sausage, should be heat treated to 145°F for 4 minutes to destroy E. coli that may have survived the curing and fermentation process (USDA FSIS 1995**).*
[h3]6.8. Storage Guidelines[/h3]
Store Cured/Smoked Poultry up to two weeks in the refrigerator or up to one year in the freezer (TAES Extension Poultry Scientists 1999). Store lightly cured fish 10-14 days in the refrigerator or 2-3 months in the freezer (Luick 1998). Vacuum packaged meats, e.g., smoked fish, must be kept at 40°F, since the reduced oxygen atmosphere increases the risk of botulism poisoning (Luick 1998). Modern fish curing/smoking recipes produce a highly perishable product that rarely keeps better than the raw fish.
[h3]6.9. At Risk Consumers[/h3]
You can protect your unborn child by not eating shark, swordfish, king mackerel, and tilefish that can contain high levels of methylmercury (U.S. F.D.A. 2001a). "At risk" consumers should avoid eating refrigerated smoked seafood, unless it is in a cooked dish. Refrigerated smoked seafood, such as salmon, trout, whitefish, cod, tuna, or mackerel, is most often in recipes for "Nova style, "lox, kippered, smoked or jerky seafood. These preparations are at risk for _Listeria monocytogenes_ contamination (U.S. F.D.A. 2001b). At-risk consumers might want to avoid dry cured sausages because of the risk of _E. coli_ O157:H7 (USDA FSIS 1995b). *Consumers may want to avoid feeding cured products containing nitrates/nitrites to babies less than three months old because of implications in Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) due to nitrate/nitrite poisoning (methemoglobinemia).*

Document Use | Preface | Table of Contents | References


----------



## Bearcarver

Thanks Paul!

Bear


----------



## beer-b-q

Source:  http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts&highlight=curing+salts

[h2]
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 Curing Salts[/h2]


> *Curing Salts for Sausage Making*
> *From Habanero Smoker*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following list contains cures that are commonly used in the United States of America. Instructions for use are given for sausage only.
> 
> 
> *CURING SALTS*
> 
> *CURING SALTS**DESCRIPTION**HOW TO USE*
> *CURING SALTS*
> 
> In general
> Though salt has properties that can cure meat, when one talks about curing salts or cures they are referring to the use of sodium nitrite, potassium nitrite, sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate (saltpeter) which are used in the processing of their meat. The main reasons to use curing salts in smoked sausages are to prevent botulism poisoning, as well as impede the development of many food spoiling bacteria that can thrive in low temperature environment of a smoker. But that is not all that cures do. These curing ingredients also retard rancidity, provide the characteristic flavor, color and extend the self life of the meat.
> 
> For the purposes of this article, curing salts fall into two main categories; pure and premix. Today in the United States it is extremely rare for the home user to use a pure cure; which would be pure sodium nitrite or pure sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate (saltpeter). These pure cures can still be obtained by the home user, but are used in such small quantities it is nearly impossible for the home user to measure accurately, or to evenly distribute the cure.
> 
> Fortunately premixes have appeared on the market that can easily be used by the home user. There are many commercial premixes on the market, but the one’s this article will concentrate on are Cure #1 or Cure #2, and the Morton premixed cures. These manufacturers have diluted the pure cures with salt to makes it much easier for the home user to measure accurately. Morton also adds sugar to their premixed cures.
> 
> These premixes reduce the possibility of serious error that could occur if handling pure sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite. In addition, excessive amounts of nitrates or nitrites which are not evenly distributed may cause a green-brownish color of the meat's pigment. This is a form of oxidation that can happen with any cured meat or sausage, but is more likely to happen in an acid environment, such as in fermented sausages. This form of greening of cured meats is referred to as "nitrite burn."Extreme caution must be exercised in using these cures; never use more than called for in the recipe. In general, for all cures and cure mixes, are designed to be used at the rate specified in the formulation or recipe. When used as directed curing salts are safe for home use. (More details on using individual cures are provided for each cure listed).
> 
> It is important to remember, more is not better and it can be toxic. Using these ingredients in higher levels your curing results will be inconsistent, cured meats may be too salty, the finished products may be unsatisfactory and/or nitrite burn can occur.
> 
> During the curing stage, always keep meat refrigerated (36° to 40°F). The closer to 40°F, the better; lower temperatures will slow the curing process, and temperature below 28°F will stop the curing.
> 
> IMPORTANT: All these cures should be stored safely out of the reach of children. This is particularly true with cure #1 & 2. The pink candy like color is attractive to children. All cures should be kept in their original container, and away from ingredients such as salt and sugar that they could be mistaken for; this is especially so for cures without a dye.*SODIUM NITRATE*
> _Some other names:_
> Chile saltpeter,
> Peru saltpeter,
> sodium saltpeter,
> nitric acid sodium salt
> 
> 
> *and*
> 
> *POTASSIUM NITRATE*
> _Some other names:_
> saltpeter,
> saltpetre,
> nitrate of potashSodium Nitrate and its chemical equivalent potassium nitrate are interchangeable. For the most part potassium nitrate has been replaced with sodium nitrate – which is considered more stable and reliable; both are extremely poisonous. These ingredients are still widely used for home curing outside the United States, but it is recommended that these cures should only be used in it pure form by meat processing plants. In such plants this is done by trained personnel under strict supervision. Therefore it is highly recommended when using nitrates to obtain it in premixed cures that can be safely and accurately measured; such as in cure #2, and the Morton cures which are discussed in more detail latter on.
> 
> Nitrates are considered a slow cure, and are referred to as a “time release capsule.” It does not cure meat directly and initially not much happens when it is added to meat. With nitrates the curing is dependent on the amount of bacteria present, and the environment (temperature) the bacteria need to grow. For nitrates to work as a cure it requires the presents of certain microorganisms. These microorganisms are present in all meats, and start to react with the nitrates to reduce them to nitrites. It is the nitrites that will start the curing process.
> 
> This is a slow process that steadily releases nitrites over a long period of time. This makes it well suited for curing products that require long curing times. Dry cure products can take as long as several weeks to several months to fully cure. Nitrates are used for making dry cure sausages; such as pepperoni, hard salami, geonoa salami, dried farmers sausage, capicola, etc, and dry cure meats that are not cooked or need to be cooked.Pure sodium nitrates or potassium nitrates are still widely used outside of the United States, but they are not recommended for home use in this country. Commercially, the USDA does not allow nitrates to be added to sausage or meat that will be cooked.
> 
> The United States Federal regulations permit a maximum addition of 2.75 ounces of sodium or potassium nitrate per 100 pounds of ground meat/fat that will be made into dry cured (fermented) sausages. Since smaller quantities will be use for home sausage making, these small quantities would be difficult to weigh out on most available home scales, it is strongly recommended that a commercial premixed cure be used.*SODIUM NITRITE*
> _Some other names:_
> Nitrous acid sodium salt,
> Diazotizing salt,
> Anti rust
> 
> 
> *and*
> 
> *POTASSIUM NITRITE*Sodium nitrite and its chemical equivalent potassium nitrite are interchangeable. Though for the most part potassium nitrite has been replaced by sodium nitrite as the preferred cure. It is considered more stable and reliable. Both are extremely poisonous, and should only be used in it pure form by meat processing plants. In such plants this is done by trained personnel under strict supervision. Pure nitrites are so toxic, it is rare that the home user can obtain them. It is highly recommended if using nitrites to obtain it in premixed cures that can be safely and accurately measured; such as in cure #1, cure #2 and Morton Tender Quick and Sugar Cure (plain); which are discussed in more detail.
> 
> Nitrites are used for curing meats that will be cooked, and must be used in sausages that are smoked at low temperatures over a long period of time. Nitrites are considered a fast acting cure, because they begins to cure immediately upon contact with the meat. Nitrites possess antimicrobial properties that make them an excellent preservative. They are a very effective agent in protecting foods from most food spoiling bacteria, and most importantly they prevent the growth of clostridium botulinum that causes botulism poisoning.
> 
> Botulism, though it can grow in improperly low acid canned/vacuumed foods and juices; was once referred to as the ‘Sausage Disease’ - botulus is Latin for sausage. Sausage at one time was the most common source of botulism poisoning, and is now the second most common source. The primary source is caused by improper home canning. To read more on food borne bacteria click here
> 
> In addition to its antimicrobial properties, nitrites retards rancidity, provide that characteristic flavor of a cured meat, color (pint to red depending on what type of meat is cured) and extends the self life of meat. Nitrites are used to cure foods that require a short curing time and will be smoked or cooked; such as bacon, smoked sausage, semi-dry sausage, hot dogs, bologna, and other smoked or cured meats, fish, and poultry.Pure sodium nitrite or potassium nitrite are not recommended for home use. In the United States Federal regulations permit a maximum addition of 0.25 ounce of sodium or potassium nitrite per 100 pounds of ground meat/fat. Since the small amount of nitrites are difficult to weigh out on most available home scales, it is strongly recommended that a commercial premixed cure be used.*CURE #1*
> _Some Other Names:
> Pink Salt;
> Tinted Cure Mix (TCM);
> Tinted Curing Powder (TCP);
> Prague powder #1;
> InstaCure #1;
> Modern cure;
> D.Q. powder;
> FLP;
> L.E.M. cure;
> Sure Cure;
> Fast Cure;
> Speed Cure_This premix is use in meats and sausages that require a short curing time, and will be smoked, cooked or canned. It is a blend of salt and sodium nitrite, and of course it has the curing properties of sodium nitrite. The salt is added as a carrier and to make it easier to measure. In the United States it is dyed pink, so chefs and the home user will not mistake it for salt or sugar. Though it goes by several different brand and generic names, they all have the same formula of 93.75% salt, and 6.25% sodium nitrite (1 pound of salt plus 1 ounce of sodium nitrite).
> 
> Cure #1 can be used as a dry brine (dry cure) or in a wet brine (pickle). It provides the same curing properties of sodium nitrite, and is considered a quick cure, because it starts curing immediately upon contact with the meat. As mentioned earlier, this type of cure is used for curing meats for a short period of time that will be cooked, smoked, or canned. This includes poultry, fish, ham, bacon, luncheon meats, corned beef, pates, sausages and other products too numerous to mention.
> 
> *NOTE: This is not interchangeable with cure #2, or any of the Morton brand name cures. Also do not mistake this for recipes calling for sodium nitrite, which means pure sodium nitrite.*Use as directed, more is not better and it can be toxic. To ensure that the cure is distributed more evenly in your sausage, mix it with the liquid that your recipe calls for, or mix it with the meat prior to grinding.
> 
> Use as follows:
> 
> Cure per pound of ground meat/fat:
> 
> Amount of Meat/FatAmount of Cure Vol.Wt. 1 lb.1/4 tsp..05 oz.2 lbs.3/8 tsp..08 oz.3 lbs.1/2 tsp..10 oz.4 lbs.3/4 tsp..15 oz.5 lbs.1 tsp..20 oz.10 lbs.2 tsp..40 oz.15 lbs.1 Tbsp..60 oz.20 lbs.1 Tbsp. + 1 tsp..80 oz.25 lbs.1 Tbsp. + 2 tsp.1.00 oz.50 lbs.3 Tbsp. + 1 tsp.2.00 oz.100 lbs.6 Tbsp. + 2 tsp.4.00 oz.
> tsp. = teaspoon; Tbsp.= Tablespoon;
> oz.= ounce
> 
> Although cure #1 has salt in the mix, when using it in sausage making additional salt needs to be added.*CURE #2*
> Some Other Names:
> _Prague powder #2; _
> _InstaCure #2; _
> _Modern cure #2; _
> _D.Q. powder #2_This cure is a blend of salt and sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate. The salt is added as a carrier and to make it easier to measure. In the United States it is dyed pink, so chefs and the home user will not mistake it for salt or sugar. It goes by several different brand and generic names, but they all have the same formula of 89.75% salt, and 6.25% sodium nitrite, and 4% sodium nitrate (1 pound of salt, plus 1 ounce of sodium nitrite, plus .64 ounce of sodium nitrate).
> 
> Cure #2 has the same curing and food preservative properties as sodium nitrite, and the extended curing time of sodium nitrate. It is specifically formulated to be used for making uncooked dry cured products that require several weeks to several months to cure. Dry curing meat or sausage properly cannot be done with Cure #1 which contains sodium nitrite only; it dissipates too quickly.
> 
> Cure #2 can be compared to the time release capsules used in medicines – the sodium nitrites start working immediately, while the sodium nitrates slowly reduce over time into sodium nitrites. Thus allowing for the much longer curing times required to dry cure, which can take up to 6 months. Generally used in such sausages as pepperoni, hard salami, geonoa salami, prosciutto hams, dried farmers sausage, capicola and others that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration.
> 
> *NOTE:* This is not interchangeable with cure #1, or by any of the Morton brand name cures. Nor is it interchangeable with sodium nitrate or saltpeter which is measured differently and has different curing times. *Also do not mistake this for recipes calling for sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite, which means pure sodium nitrate or pure sodium nitrite.*How to Use: Measures the same as cure #1 (see above).
> 
> Use as directed, more is not better and it can be toxic. To ensure that the cure is distributed more evenly in your sausage, mix it with the liquid that your recipe calls for, or mix it with the meat prior to grinding.
> 
> Just as cure #1, when using cure #2 additional salt needs to be added to your sausage. Cure #2 can be used as a dry brine (cure) or in a wet brine (pickle).*MORTON TENDER QUICK*
> 
> and
> *MORTON SUGAR CURE*NOTE: Morton Tender Quick is not a meat tenderizer, or should either be used as a seasoning. These two premixes are essentially the same, and can be used interchangeably. Both are considered fast cures. The difference between the two is that the Sugar Cure has added dextrose and a packet of spice mix. They both contain a combination of high grade salt, sugar, plus both sodium nitrate (.5%) and sodium nitrite (.5%).
> 
> Like cure #1, these premix cures have been developed as a cure for meat, poultry, game, fish and sausage that require short curing times, and will be fully cooked. They are NOT interchangeable with cure #1; they measure differently. Unlike cure #1, you don't use any additional salt when making sausage.
> 
> *NOTE:* Morton Tender Quick is not a meat tenderizer, and the Sugar cures are not seasonings. These are cures that only should be used in recipes calling for curing meat fish, and poultry. They can be used in recipes that call for cure #1, but because they are measured differently and the salt they contain, they are not directly interchangeable with cure #1, or cure #2, saltpeter or Morton Smoke Flavored Sugar Cure.Use 1/2 tablespoon (1 1/2 level teaspoons) per pound of ground meat and fat. If replacing Morton Tender Quick for cure #1 in a recipe, do not add the salt that the recipe calls for.
> 
> 
> 
> Amount of Meat/FatAmount of Cure Vol.Wt. 1 lb.1.5 tsp.23 oz.5 lbs.7.5 tsp1.15 oz.10 lbs.1/4 C + 1 Tbsp2.30 oz.15 lbs.1/4C + 3.5 Tbsp3.45 oz.25 lbs.3/4 C + 1.5 tsp5.55 oz.
> tsp= teaspoon; Tbsp= Tablespoon;
> C= cup; oz.= ounce
> 
> _Spice Packet_: If the spices that are included with the Sugar Cures are not desired, it is not necessary to mix the spices with the cure mix. The unspiced Sugar Cure contains the curing agents and may be used alone. When using the spices with your cure combine 1 1/4 teaspoons of spice mix with one cup of cure and mix thoroughly. If any portion of the complete mix with spice is not used within a few days, it should be discarded (once the spices are mixed with the cure the spices will begin to react with the nitrates and nitrites).
> 
> Return to list.
> 
> *MORTON SMOKE FLAVORED SUGAR CURE*
> Also know as Morton Sugar Cure Smoke Flavored. This cure premix is not recommended for sausage, but it is listed so that the user does not mistake or confuse this with Morton Sugar Cure (plain). This is a slow cure, and the cure reaction takes longer with Morton Smoke Flavored Sugar Cure than with cure #2 or Morton Sugar Cure (plain) or Morton Tender Quick. This premix is formulated especially for dry curing large cuts of meat like hams, or bacon, that need to be cured over a long period of time.
> 
> It contains salt, sugar, sodium nitrate (1%), propylene glycol, caramel color, natural hickory smoke flavor, a blend of natural spices and dextrose (corn sugar) - it does not contain sodium nitrite. The smoke flavor and spices comes in a separate package and can be added if the flavor is desired. This cure doesn't’t have to be mixed with additional salt; and it should not be used for a wet brine (pickle) solution.
> 
> *NOTE*: This is not interchangeable with cure #1, or cure #2, or saltpeter or Morton Tender Quick or Sugar Cure (plain).Follow the instructions that are on the package. The package has a curing chart and a packet of spices that can be mixed with main contents prior to use; if you choose.
> 
> _Spice Packet_: For directions on how to use the spices in Morton Smoke Flavored Sugar Cures refer to Spice Packet directions in Morton Sugar Cure.


----------



## bilder

FYI the Susanminor site has the exact recipe I gave earlier...word for word actually.  It is not something I have pulled out of my butt.

  http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?441-Basic-Dry-Cure-Morton-s-Tender-Quick-substitute

Straight cure #1 is not interchangeable with TQ of course.  You cannot take a tablespoon of Cure #1 and use it in place of a tablespoon of TQ.  I am in no way saying that.

You can however, dilute it in a recipe (with salt, sugar etc.) to where the percentage of nitrite is equal to that found in TQ and then use the proper measurement given in that recipe to achieve the same results. 

TQ is simply sugar, salt and nitrite and nitrate in the proper amounts.  They add glycol to keep it shelf stable because the stuff can sit for years on a store shelf before being used. 

Other cure recipes out there do the same thing, minus the glycol and in many cases the nitrate.  You will get the same percentage of nitrite in the mix (plus or minus one percent depending on the mixture) and all will cure meat just fine. 

I use TQ from time to time.  It is easy and simple.   I also have cured lots of meats with other mixtures both commercial and taken from books. I fail to see how it is dangerous to use a product within the accepted safe range.  Yes, there is a safe and unsafe range of operation, but I have yet to find a recipe that goes outside of the norms.  All I have seen have a percentage of nitrite in the 5.5% to 6.75% range.  Just do the math if you are worried.


----------



## Bearcarver

bilder said:


> FYI the Susanminor site has the exact recipe I gave earlier...word for word actually.  It is not something I have pulled out of my butt.
> 
> http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?441-Basic-Dry-Cure-Morton-s-Tender-Quick-substitute
> 
> Straight cure #1 is not interchangeable with TQ of course.  You cannot take a tablespoon of Cure #1 and use it in place of a tablespoon of TQ.  I am in no way saying that.
> 
> You can however, dilute it in a recipe (with salt, sugar etc.) to where the percentage of nitrite is equal to that found in TQ and then use the proper measurement given in that recipe to achieve the same results.
> 
> TQ is simply sugar, salt and nitrite and nitrate in the proper amounts.  They add glycol to keep it shelf stable because the stuff can sit for years on a store shelf before being used.
> 
> Other cure recipes out there do the same thing, minus the glycol and in many cases the nitrate.  You will get the same percentage of nitrite in the mix (plus or minus one percent depending on the mixture) and all will cure meat just fine.
> 
> I use TQ from time to time.  It is easy and simple.   I also have cured lots of meats with other mixtures both commercial and taken from books. I fail to see how it is dangerous to use a product within the accepted safe range.  Yes, there is a safe and unsafe range of operation, but I have yet to find a recipe that goes outside of the norms.  All I have seen have a percentage of nitrite in the 5.5% to 6.75% range.  Just do the math if you are worried.


None of that changes the fact that you can not substitute any recipe for Tender Quick, unless you have the right amount of each ingredient (I doubt they told you that), and the ability to use Propylene Glycol like they do. It is NOT put in for shelf life! It is put in to keep the cure mixed with the other ingredients properly. In other words, you can get a bag of TQ, and use a few TBS of it one day, then a half of a cup another day, and you don't have to shake it to keep the part you used & the part you didn't use uniform. 

Plus it makes it so when you rub it on your meat, it stays mixed during that process too. The mixture you think you're matching TQ with would not have those properties, so you might put an ounce of your impostor TQ on a 2 pound piece of meat, and the Cure could be on one end and the other ingredients on the other end.

Also if you use half of your mixture, you don't have any idea how much cure you used from that mix, and how much cure is in the part you didn't use yet.

Also IT IS VERY IMPORTANT that you use the exact amount of cure needed for each piece of meat!

We have ALL been telling people that forever. Now you're gonna come along and tell everybody it doesn't matter if you aren't exact when Dry Curing.

That Is Dangerous!

BTW: Do you have a link to any of your smokes using TQ?  Any links using other cures?

Bear


----------



## scarbelly

I will just say this, let me be the third member to take issue with this post. You can not just make up a recipe and be safe unless you are a food scientist. None of us here are with the possible exception of Bob Bally. If you have a recipe that calls for TQ or cure #1 or cure #2, follow the recipe to be safe. When you post info on a public site like this you can lead the inexperienced into a path that can cause serious problems.  Most folks share their food with others so you not only make one person ill you make many ill if you make a mistake.

If you want to play with recipes on your own for your own family that is one thing but do not post it here as a safe tested recipe. The cure you gave from pages 39/40 of Charcuterie are meat for specific recepies in his book.  They are in no way intended to replace TQ.


----------



## bilder

Bearcarver said:


> bilder said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI the Susanminor site has the exact recipe I gave earlier...word for word actually.  It is not something I have pulled out of my butt.
> 
> http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?441-Basic-Dry-Cure-Morton-s-Tender-Quick-substitute
> 
> Straight cure #1 is not interchangeable with TQ of course.  You cannot take a tablespoon of Cure #1 and use it in place of a tablespoon of TQ.  I am in no way saying that.
> 
> You can however, dilute it in a recipe (with salt, sugar etc.) to where the percentage of nitrite is equal to that found in TQ and then use the proper measurement given in that recipe to achieve the same results.
> 
> TQ is simply sugar, salt and nitrite and nitrate in the proper amounts.  They add glycol to keep it shelf stable because the stuff can sit for years on a store shelf before being used.
> 
> Other cure recipes out there do the same thing, minus the glycol and in many cases the nitrate.  You will get the same percentage of nitrite in the mix (plus or minus one percent depending on the mixture) and all will cure meat just fine.
> 
> I use TQ from time to time.  It is easy and simple.   I also have cured lots of meats with other mixtures both commercial and taken from books. I fail to see how it is dangerous to use a product within the accepted safe range.  Yes, there is a safe and unsafe range of operation, but I have yet to find a recipe that goes outside of the norms.  All I have seen have a percentage of nitrite in the 5.5% to 6.75% range.  Just do the math if you are worried.
> 
> 
> 
> None of that changes the fact that you can not substitute any recipe for Tender Quick, unless you have the right amount of each ingredient (I doubt they told you that), and the ability to use Propylene Glycol like they do. It is NOT put in for shelf life! It is put in to keep the cure mixed with the other ingredients properly. In other words, you can get a bag of TQ, and use a few TBS of it one day, then a half of a cup another day, and you don't have to shake it to keep the part you used & the part you didn't use uniform.
> 
> Plus it makes it so when you rub it on your meat, it stays mixed during that process too. The mixture you think you're matching TQ with would not have those properties, so you might put an ounce of your impostor TQ on a 2 pound piece of meat, and the Cure could be on one end and the other ingredients on the other end.
> 
> Also if you use half of your mixture, you don't have any idea how much cure you used from that mix, and how much cure is in the part you didn't use yet.
> 
> Also IT IS VERY IMPORTANT that you use the exact amount of cure needed for each piece of meat!
> 
> We have ALL been telling people that forever. Now you're gonna come along and tell everybody it doesn't matter if you aren't exact when Dry Curing.
> 
> That Is Dangerous!
> 
> BTW: Do you have a link to any of your smokes using TQ?  Any links using other cures?
> 
> Bear
Click to expand...

So every butcher shop in the world who uses their own cure mix is flirting with danger?  Only those who use TQ or put glycol into their mix are safe to buy from?  That is basically what you are saying.  By shelf stable I meant the glycol keeps the contents from settling out over time.  Cure #1 has the same texture as salt (because it _is_ salt with 6.25% sodium nitrite added) so it will not settle out as much as you seem to think it will. 

Go back and read the part of the recipe where it makes the comment about being not quite exact.  Take the statement in context in the recipe and I think you will see that you are getting all worked up over nothing.  The recipe itself tells you about contents settling and when to mix up a new batch for crying out loud.  Calm down and have some jerky.

And no, I do not post my smokes and such.  Been smoking meats and fish since I was a kid and posting photos of it just does not appeal to me.  Only came to this forum when researching my first new smoker purchase in some 15 years.  My trusty old smoker finally gave out on me and I was interested in some of the new stuff out there. 

Just been finding it interesting when folks get all worked up when someone offers an alternative method to achieve the same results.  You can use a tablespoon of TQ to cure your pound of jerky meat or you can add a quarter teaspoon of cure #1 and use some additional salt and sugar to make up the difference.  The meat will cure safely and will be tasty either way.

Many people do not try to cure their own meat because they have been scared into believing that if they are off a fraction of a teaspoon in their measurements that they will kill their family.  A fraction of a teaspoon off will not harm you.  If you start to use cure #1 in place of salt in equal measure, then you have a problem.   Again, some common sense is needed.  Scaring people over half a gram is not needed.


----------



## bbally

Recipe offered from Brian Polcyn's Charcurterie book is a solid recipe.  Works well for curing meat.

The recipe is not a substitute for those of you using TQ.  And diluting it with salt and sugar will not make it so, I don't worry about the homogenizing stabilication ingredient as much  as you have to take into account the Nitrate to Nitrite conversion and correct the protection timing for it as will affect the length of time you can cure with it by shortening it.

(In the sited case of making jerky, it would NOT have an affect as this is such a short cure time the "nitrate" in the TQ is really wasted and converted by temperature to NOx.) 

But the stand alone recipe is a good one, I cook with Brian's cousin quite a few times; they know food and the recipe is very safe.

Don't substitute it for TQ. 

As the gentleman said, there are a lot of cure mixes made out there, follow the directions for the cure mix being used.  On the recipe posted follow its directions for use in Charcuterie.  The book is not a bible by any means, but a pretty solid book that should be on your shelf.

For those just starting out and in the early stages of learning curing... with time you will have the knowledge to know what you can do and cannot do safely, mostly you pay attention to the Nitrite or Nitrite and Nitrate added for the weight being treated minus the fat.  When you understand the range for safe cure levels it is actually pretty wide with the exception of bacon.  So exact does not become some magic number.  There is a range.  There is also a not to exceed.


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## cowgirl

bbally said:


> Recipe offered from Brian Polcyn's Charcurterie book is a solid recipe.  Works well for curing meat.
> 
> The recipe is not a substitute for those of you using TQ.  And diluting it with salt and sugar will not make it so, I don't worry about the homogenizing stabilication ingredient as much  as you have to take into account the Nitrate to Nitrite conversion and correct the protection timing for it as will affect the length of time you can cure with it by shortening it.
> 
> (In the sited case of making jerky, it would NOT have an affect as this is such a short cure time the "nitrate" in the TQ is really wasted and converted by temperature to NOx.)
> 
> But the stand alone recipe is a good one, I cook with Brian's cousin quite a few times; they know food and the recipe is very safe.
> 
> Don't substitute it for TQ.
> 
> As that posted it gentleman said, there are a lot of cure mixes made out there, follow the directions for the cure mix being used.  On the recipe posted follow its directions for use in Charcuterie.  The book is not a bible by any means, but a pretty solid book that should be on your shelf.
> 
> For those just starting out and in the early stages of learning curing... with time you will have the knowledge to know what you can do and cannot do safely, mostly you pay attention to the Nitrite or Nitrite and Nitrate added for the weight being treated minus the fat.  When you understand the range for safe cure levels it is actually pretty wide with the exception of bacon.  So exact does not become some magic number.  There is a range.  There is also a not to exceed.




 Well said Bob.


----------



## beer-b-q

Thanks Bob...

Jeanie, Where You Been, We Miss Your Smokes....


----------



## forluvofsmoke

Bearcarver said:


> Curing meat makes it possible to smoke meat for longer than 4 hours at a low temp.
> 
> Without curing, meat has to get through the Danger Zone (40˚ to 140˚) in less than 4 hours (with a few technical exceptions).
> 
> Lot's of guys smoke Jerky without curing it first.
> 
> I would not.
> 
> Bear


My findings on jerky making actually go into a whole new realm, which not only includes the danger zone, as we all know it referred to as, but, the fact that you are drying out the meat brings a little known (to many folks)additional possibility for microbial issues. I have never made uncured jerky myself either, no will I ever, knowing what I know about dried meats. For starters, moisture has everything to do with the life cycles of microbial organisms, up to and including their death, if heat is expected to be an effective exterminator, if you will.
 


dougmays said:


> seems like that should be very easy to do since the cuts of meat are so thin....for non-cured meat what temp would you smoke at? 120? 150?


To go along with what I mentioned above, Doug, I must stress the following be completely understood before you consider making uncured jerky, as things can go very badly without you even knowing it until you're sick from it. Well, let me just say that if you want a really good tasting and good eating uncured jerky, you can't process it at low temperatures. The meat must be brought up to temperatures which will kill the pathogens (160*, if I recall) before it becomes dried. Basically, the meat has to cooked before it is dried...not conducive to a good jerky. If this is not followed, the live pathogens could become heat resistant due to the reduced moisture content in the meat, thereby not being killed even though the meat may be taken to a safe temp, but this being post-dried, resulting in colonizing to levels which may become unsafe for human consumption when the temperature of the meat does reach levels which the microbes can begin to thrive again, that being room temperature. Let me see if I can find the info again...it's been quite a while since I last read it.
 

Here we go...did a quick search on the USDA site for fact sheets on "making jerky". I hope it's OK to copy/paste this, as I wanted everyone to see it right up front, so as to be less likely to skip clicking on a link...I couldn't paste the page in it's entirety without errors, but managed to get the info portion):



You are here: Home / Fact Sheets / Meat Preparation / Food Safety Of Jerky
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 NEWS RELEASES SECTION HEADER IMAGE 
 *Food Safety of Jerky*
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When raw meat or poultry is dehydrated at home — either in a warm oven or a food dehydrator — to make jerky which will be stored on the shelf, pathogenic bacteria are likely to survive the dry heat of a warm oven and especially the 130 to 140 °F of a food dehydrator. Included here is the scientific background behind drying food to make it safe and the safest procedure to follow when making homemade jerky.

*What is Jerky?*
This product is a nutrient-dense meat that has been made lightweight by drying. A pound of meat or poultry weighs about four ounces after being made into jerky. Because most of the moisture is removed, it is shelf stable — can be stored without refrigeration — making it a handy food for backpackers and others who don't have access to refrigerators.

Jerky is a food known at least since ancient Egypt. Humans made jerky from animal meat that was too big to eat all at once, such as bear, buffalo, or whales. North American Indians mixed ground dried meat with dried fruit or suet to make "pemmican." "Biltong" is dried meat or game used in many African countries. Our word "jerky" came from the Spanish word "charque."

*How Can Drying Meat Make it Safe?*
Drying is the world's oldest and most common method of food preservation. Canning technology is less than 200 years old and freezing became practical only during this century when electricity became more and more available to people. Drying technology is both simple and readily available to most of the world's culture.

The scientific principal of preserving food by drying is that by removing moisture, enzymes cannot efficiently contact or react with the food. Whether these enzymes are bacterial, fungal, or naturally occurring autolytic enzymes from the raw food, preventing this enzymatic action preserves the food from biological action.

*What are the Types of Food Drying? *
There are several types of food drying. Two types of natural drying - sun drying and "adibatic" (shade) drying - occur in open air. Adibatic drying occurs without heat. Solar drying sometimes takes place in a special container that catches and captures the sun's heat. These types of drying are used mainly for fruits such as apricots, tomatoes, and grapes (to make raisins).

Drying from an artificial heat source is done by placing food in either a warm oven or a food dehydrator. The main components of an electric food dehydrator include:
a source of heat;
air flow to circulate the dry air;
trays to hold the food during the drying process; and
mesh or leather sheets to dry certain types of foods.
*Why is Temperature Important When Making Jerky? *Illnesses due to _Salmonella_ and _E. coli_ O157:H7 from homemade jerky raise questions about the safety of traditional drying methods for making beef and venison jerky. The USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline's current recommendation for making jerky safely is to heat meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F before the dehydrating process. This step assures that any bacteria present will be destroyed by wet heat. But most dehydrator instructions do not include this step, and a dehydrator may not reach temperatures high enough to heat meat to 160 °F.

After heating, maintain a constant dehydrator temperature of 130 to 140 °F during the drying process is important because:
the process must be fast enough to dry food before it spoils; and
it must remove enough water that microorganisms are unable to grow.
*Why is it a Food Safety Concern to Dry Meat Without First Heating it to 160 °F?*
The danger in dehydrating meat and poultry without cooking it to a safe temperature first is that the appliance will not heat the meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F — temperatures at which bacteria are destroyed — before it dries. After drying, bacteria become much more heat resistant.

Within a dehydrator or low-temperature oven, evaporating moisture absorbs most of the heat. Thus, the meat itself does not begin to rise in temperature until most of the moisture has evaporated. Therefore, when the dried meat temperature finally begins to rise, the bacteria have become more heat resistant and are more likely to survive. If these surviving bacteria are pathogenic, they can cause foodborne illness to those consuming the jerky.

*What Research Findings Exist on the Safety of Jerky?*
There have been several scientific studies of meat dehydrating and lab tests on jerky samples by the following professionals: Judy Harrison, Cooperative Extension Service, University of Georgia; Mark Harrison, the Center for Food Safety and Quality Enhancement, Department of Food Science and Technology, University of Georgia; Richard A. Holley, Food Research Institute, Agriculture Canada, in Ontario; and William Keene of the Oregon Health Division. In studies, the meat dehydrated included slices of beef from the round, loin, or flank; corned beef slices; and ground beef formed in jerky presses. Keene examined homemade venison jerky which infected 11 people with _E. coli_ O157:H7.

In a related work, factors affecting the heat resistance of _E. coli_ O157:H7 was the subject of an April 1998 piece by J. Kauer et al., _Letters of Applied Bacteriology_, Vol. 26, No. 4, page 325.

In the jerky studies, some samples showed total bacterial destruction and other samples showed some bacterial survival — especially the jerky made with ground beef. Further experiments with lab-inoculated venison showed that pathogenic _E. coli _could survive drying times of up to 10 hours and temperatures of up to 145 °F.

A recent study by the Harrisons and Ruth Ann Rose, also with the University of Georgia, was published in the January 1998 _Journal of Food Protection_, Vol. 61, No. 1. The authors analyzed ground beef jerky made with a commercial beef jerky spice mixture with and without a curing mix containing salt and sodium nitrite.

Half of the ground beef was inoculated with _E. coli_ O157:H7 before making it into jerky strips and dehydrating it. The authors found that in both the heated and unheated samples, the jerky made with the curing mix had greater destruction of bacteria than jerky made without it. The jerky made with the mix and heated before dehydrating had the highest destruction rate of bacteria.

They concluded, "For ground beef jerky prepared at home, safety concerns related to _E. coli_ O157:H7 are minimized if the meat is precooked to 160 °F prior to drying."

*What are the USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline's Recommendations for Making Homemade Jerky?*
Research findings support what the Hotline has been recommending to callers. Additionally, safe handling and preparation methods must always be used, including:
Always wash hands thoroughly with soap and water before and after working with meat products.
Use clean equipment and utensils.
Keep meat and poultry refrigerated at 40 °F or slightly below; use or freeze ground beef and poultry within 2 days; whole red meats, within 3 to 5 days.
Defrost frozen meat in the refrigerator, not on the kitchen counter.
Marinate meat in the refrigerator. Don't save marinade to re-use. Marinades are used to tenderize and flavor the jerky before dehydrating it.
Steam or roast meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F as measured with a food thermometer before dehydrating it.
Dry meats in a food dehydrator that has an adjustable temperature dial and will maintain a temperature of at least 130 to 140 °F throughout the drying process.
*Are There Special Considerations for Wild Game Jerky?*
Yes, there are other special considerations when making homemade jerky from venison or other wild game. According to Keene and his co-authors, "Venison can be heavily contaminated with fecal bacteria — the degree varying with the hunter's skill, wound location, and other factors. While fresh beef is usually rapidly chilled, deer carcasses are typically held at ambient temperatures, potentially allowing bacteria multiplication."

*Is Commercially Made Jerky Safe?*
Yes, the process is monitored in federally inspected plants by inspectors of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Food Safety and Inspection Service. Products may be cured or uncured, dried, and may be smoked or unsmoked, air or oven dried. The following terms may be on processed jerky products:
"Beef Jerky" - produced from a single piece of beef.
"Beef Jerky Chunked and Formed" - produced from chunks of meat that are molded and formed, then cut into strips.
"Beef Jerky Ground and Formed or Chopped and Formed" - produced from ground or chopped meat, molded and cut into strips. Beef Jerky containing binders or extenders must show true product name (e.g., "Beef and Soy Protein Concentrate Jerky, Ground and Formed").
"Species (or Kind) Jerky Sausage" - the product has been chopped and may be dried at any stage of the process, and it is stuffed into casings.
*What is the Safe Storage Time for Jerky?*
Commercially packaged jerky can be kept 12 months; home-dried jerky can be stored 1 to 2 months.

Last Modified:  #BeginDate format:Am1 April 5, 2006



Not the easiest to understand in layman's terms, but there it is.

Eric


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## Bearcarver

bilder said:


> Bearcarver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bilder said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI the Susanminor site has the exact recipe I gave earlier...word for word actually.  It is not something I have pulled out of my butt.
> 
> http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?441-Basic-Dry-Cure-Morton-s-Tender-Quick-substitute
> 
> Straight cure #1 is not interchangeable with TQ of course.  You cannot take a tablespoon of Cure #1 and use it in place of a tablespoon of TQ.  I am in no way saying that.
> 
> You can however, dilute it in a recipe (with salt, sugar etc.) to where the percentage of nitrite is equal to that found in TQ and then use the proper measurement given in that recipe to achieve the same results.
> 
> TQ is simply sugar, salt and nitrite and nitrate in the proper amounts.  They add glycol to keep it shelf stable because the stuff can sit for years on a store shelf before being used.
> 
> Other cure recipes out there do the same thing, minus the glycol and in many cases the nitrate.  You will get the same percentage of nitrite in the mix (plus or minus one percent depending on the mixture) and all will cure meat just fine.
> 
> I use TQ from time to time.  It is easy and simple.   I also have cured lots of meats with other mixtures both commercial and taken from books. I fail to see how it is dangerous to use a product within the accepted safe range.  Yes, there is a safe and unsafe range of operation, but I have yet to find a recipe that goes outside of the norms.  All I have seen have a percentage of nitrite in the 5.5% to 6.75% range.  Just do the math if you are worried.
> 
> 
> 
> None of that changes the fact that you can not substitute any recipe for Tender Quick, unless you have the right amount of each ingredient (I doubt they told you that), and the ability to use Propylene Glycol like they do. It is NOT put in for shelf life! It is put in to keep the cure mixed with the other ingredients properly. In other words, you can get a bag of TQ, and use a few TBS of it one day, then a half of a cup another day, and you don't have to shake it to keep the part you used & the part you didn't use uniform.
> 
> Plus it makes it so when you rub it on your meat, it stays mixed during that process too. The mixture you think you're matching TQ with would not have those properties, so you might put an ounce of your impostor TQ on a 2 pound piece of meat, and the Cure could be on one end and the other ingredients on the other end.
> 
> Also if you use half of your mixture, you don't have any idea how much cure you used from that mix, and how much cure is in the part you didn't use yet.
> 
> Also IT IS VERY IMPORTANT that you use the exact amount of cure needed for each piece of meat!
> 
> We have ALL been telling people that forever. Now you're gonna come along and tell everybody it doesn't matter if you aren't exact when Dry Curing.
> 
> That Is Dangerous!
> 
> BTW: Do you have a link to any of your smokes using TQ?  Any links using other cures?
> 
> Bear
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So every butcher shop in the world who uses their own cure mix is flirting with danger? *  I Never Said That! *Only those who use TQ or put glycol into their mix are safe to buy from? *I Never Said That!*  That is basically what you are saying.* Sorry--Wrong Again!   *By shelf stable I meant the glycol keeps the contents from settling out over time. *That is Not What You Said! *Cure #1 has the same texture as salt (because it _is_ salt with 6.25% sodium nitrite added) so it will not settle out as much as you seem to think it will. *That is a matter of opinion, but if it was true, Morton's would not add it.*
> 
> Go back and read the part of the recipe where it makes the comment about being not quite exact.  Take the statement in context in the recipe and I think you will see that you are getting all worked up over nothing.  The recipe itself tells you about contents settling and when to mix up a new batch for crying out loud.  Calm down and have some jerky.
> 
> *This is not the place to be talking like a SMART-ASS !  You wrote Dry Curing doesn't have to be exact!*
> 
> And no, I do not post my smokes and such.  Been smoking meats and fish since I was a kid and posting photos of it just does not appeal to me.  Only came to this forum when researching my first new smoker purchase in some 15 years.  My trusty old smoker finally gave out on me and I was interested in some of the new stuff out there.
> 
> Just been finding it interesting when folks get all worked up when someone offers an alternative method to achieve the same results.  You can use a tablespoon of TQ to cure your pound of jerky meat or you can add a quarter teaspoon of cure #1 and use some additional salt and sugar to make up the difference.  The meat will cure safely and will be tasty either way.
> 
> Many people do not try to cure their own meat because they have been scared into believing that if they are off a fraction of a teaspoon in their measurements that they will kill their family.  A fraction of a teaspoon off will not harm you.  If you start to use cure #1 in place of salt in equal measure, then you have a problem.   Again, some common sense is needed.  Scaring people over half a gram is not needed.
Click to expand...

*Answers to some of your comments in red above.*

*People who frequent this forum are in a range from "Never smoked or cured anything" to "Been smoking for many years". Those who have been curing & smoking for a long time might do things many ways, but we try to only post the safest simplest ways because the biggest percentage of people who have a chance of following what was posted are Newbies. It's not that any of us are saying that this or that can't be done, it is that things on this forum should be either posted exactly how it was done, step by step, and beyond all doubt that it is safe, or it should be posted without instructions, so nobody will try to follow it. If you want to do things such as "Making your own Tender Quick", or not measuring the exact amount of cure you use, that's fine, just don't be telling people here to do the same.*

*You don't post anything you have ever done, yet you tell Newbies here how to do things the wrong way, and give a hard time to people who have put their hearts into every post they have ever made, for the benefit of others.*

*I'm done with you, so don't expect any more replies from me.*

*I will just have to hope that nobody takes any of your advice seriously, and stays safe.*

*Bearcarver*


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## Bearcarver

Thank You Eric & Bob!

Very good posts!

Bear


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## rdknb

Hmm I love when people say our fore fathers did this or that.  Look up the adverage age they lived to.  35 was very old.


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## cowgirl

bilder said:


> If you cannot find TQ in your area, you can always make a substitute using pink salt, which is easy to buy online and a little goes a long way. You can also check with your local butcher supply shop and they will usually carry it.  Here is one of the cures I use. I got this from another source online and have used it for a variety of meats.
> 
> This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.
> 
> *Basic Dry Cure:*
> 
> 1 pound/450 grams pickling salt
> 8 ounces/225 grams granulated sugar
> 2 ounces/55 grams pink salt (InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1; or TCM)
> _Makes about 3 1/2 cups_
> *Directions:*
> 
> Combine all ingredients and mix well. It is important to mix this thoroughly to ensure that the pink salt and other ingredients are equally distributed.
> I used a stand mixer with a paddle attachment (do not use the whisk). I mixed the ingredients at speed #2 for two minutes. Scraped the sides and mixed for two more minutes.
> 
> For meat up to four pounds measure 1 tablespoon per pound.
> The actual measurement should be 2 ounces per 5 pounds of meat. Which comes to about 2.25 teaspoons per pound, but you don't have to be exact when using a dry cure.
> 
> Store in an air tight container away from sunlight, and it will last indefinitely.
> If hard lumps form during storage discard and make a new batch. If the lumps fall apart easily with a little pressure the cure is still good to use.
> 
> To use the Basic Cure Mix as part of your favorite curing recipes, measure out the amount per pound that your need, then you can add your additional seasonings such as additional sugar, garlic, onions and/or herbs (do not add additional salt).This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for Morton's Tender Quick. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.


lol Okay... I stayed up way too late last night and haven't had enough coffee yet this morning....but..... I've read this over and over and see nothing wrong here.  Some people have access to Tenderquick and some do not.  This recipe looks like a good one to try for those who do not have tenderquick.

Another note... I've cured a heck of a lot of meat in my life (thanks to how I was raised) and when using a dry rub on bacon, I rub the required amount called for  according to the weight of the meat... THEN I shake off any excess, wrap and let it do it's thing while chilled. (usually 5 to 7 days)

When curing larger cuts of meat that require several treatments with the dry rub, I measure out the exact amount needed (according to the weight of the meat)...Then divide the cure into how ever many treatments I'm going to do.   Sometimes a large cut requires treating twice in the 30 day cure period, sometimes the meat requires three treatments. I rub the meat and DO NOT shake off the access.

We are talking about two different methods of curing... depending on what cut of meat you are treating.

Hope that makes sense... lol 

Now I really need another cup of coffee.. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	









If this doesn't make sense... just ignore me while I wake up. lol


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## Bearcarver

cowgirl said:


> lol Okay... I stayed up way too late last night and haven't had enough coffee yet this morning....but..... I've read this over and over and see nothing wrong here.  Some people have access to Tenderquick and some do not.  This recipe looks like a good one to try for those who do not have tenderquick.
> 
> Another note... I've cured a heck of a lot of meat in my life (thanks to how I was raised) and when using a dry rub on bacon, I rub the required amount called for  according to the weight of the meat... THEN I shake off any excess, wrap and let it do it's thing while chilled. (usually 5 to 7 days)
> 
> When curing larger cuts of meat that require several treatments with the dry rub, I measure out the exact amount needed (according to the weight of the meat)...Then divide the cure into how ever many treatments I'm going to do.   Sometimes a large cut requires treating twice in the 30 day cure period, sometimes the meat requires three treatments. I rub the meat and DO NOT shake off the access.
> 
> We are talking about two different methods of curing... depending on what cut of meat you are treating.
> 
> Hope that makes sense... lol
> 
> Now I really need another cup of coffee..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> If this doesn't make sense... just ignore me while I wake up. lol


Hi Jeanie,

I have to disagree without being disagreeable on one point in your post. I really hate to do that, because I have more respect for you than you can imagine.

I know you and others have in your instructions to shake the cure off after rubbing. I am dead set against that. I figure if I'm gonna shake it off, why did I bother measuring it so accurately. I know how much falls off of my pieces, because I do them individually on a plate. There is sometimes quite a bit left on the plate, since I dry the pieces off real good before rubbing. I could be measuring & applying 1  3/8 ounce of TQ, and shaking off a half ounce. If my method seems too exacting to some, then I just like to err on the side of caution. I figure it's a better way to teach Newbies. If they want to change later, that's up to them.

Bear


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## cowgirl

Bearcarver said:


> cowgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol Okay... I stayed up way too late last night and haven't had enough coffee yet this morning....but..... I've read this over and over and see nothing wrong here.  Some people have access to Tenderquick and some do not.  This recipe looks like a good one to try for those who do not have tenderquick.
> 
> Another note... I've cured a heck of a lot of meat in my life (thanks to how I was raised) and when using a dry rub on bacon, I rub the required amount called for  according to the weight of the meat... THEN I shake off any excess, wrap and let it do it's thing while chilled. (usually 5 to 7 days)
> 
> When curing larger cuts of meat that require several treatments with the dry rub, I measure out the exact amount needed (according to the weight of the meat)...Then divide the cure into how ever many treatments I'm going to do.   Sometimes a large cut requires treating twice in the 30 day cure period, sometimes the meat requires three treatments. I rub the meat and DO NOT shake off the access.
> 
> We are talking about two different methods of curing... depending on what cut of meat you are treating.
> 
> Hope that makes sense... lol
> 
> Now I really need another cup of coffee..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this doesn't make sense... just ignore me while I wake up. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeanie,
> 
> I have to disagree without being disagreeable on one point in your post. I really hate to do that, because I have more respect for you than you can imagine.
> 
> I know you and others have in your instructions to shake the cure off after rubbing. I am dead set against that. I figure if I'm gonna shake it off, why did I bother measuring it so accurately. I know how much falls off of my pieces, because I do them individually on a plate. There is sometimes quite a bit left on the plate, since I dry the pieces off real good before rubbing. I could be measuring & applying 1  3/8 ounce of TQ, and shaking off a half ounce. If my method seems too exacting to some, then I just like to err on the side of caution. I figure it's a better way to teach Newbies. If they want to change later, that's up to them.
> 
> Bear
Click to expand...

Bear, Thanks.. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I only do it this way because it is in the instructions from the Morton Tenderquick recipe that I use. I follow their instructions to a T.

jeanie


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## buffalosmoke

I've been using the above recipe from Charcuterie for some time now.....I've had really good results with it.


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## cowgirl

BuffaloSmoke said:


> I've been using the above recipe from Charcuterie for some time now.....I've had really good results with it.




 Thanks for the info BuffaloSmoke!

I've got the Charcuterie book and have had it for some time now... I've never tried a recipe out of it yet. lol   need to do that one of these days.


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## Bearcarver

cowgirl said:


> Bearcarver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol Okay... I stayed up way too late last night and haven't had enough coffee yet this morning....but..... I've read this over and over and see nothing wrong here.  Some people have access to Tenderquick and some do not.  This recipe looks like a good one to try for those who do not have tenderquick.
> 
> Another note... I've cured a heck of a lot of meat in my life (thanks to how I was raised) and when using a dry rub on bacon, I rub the required amount called for  according to the weight of the meat... THEN I shake off any excess, wrap and let it do it's thing while chilled. (usually 5 to 7 days)
> 
> When curing larger cuts of meat that require several treatments with the dry rub, I measure out the exact amount needed (according to the weight of the meat)...Then divide the cure into how ever many treatments I'm going to do.   Sometimes a large cut requires treating twice in the 30 day cure period, sometimes the meat requires three treatments. I rub the meat and DO NOT shake off the access.
> 
> We are talking about two different methods of curing... depending on what cut of meat you are treating.
> 
> Hope that makes sense... lol
> 
> Now I really need another cup of coffee..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> If this doesn't make sense... just ignore me while I wake up. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeanie,
> 
> I have to disagree without being disagreeable on one point in your post. I really hate to do that, because I have more respect for you than you can imagine.
> 
> I know you and others have in your instructions to shake the cure off after rubbing. I am dead set against that. I figure if I'm gonna shake it off, why did I bother measuring it so accurately. I know how much falls off of my pieces, because I do them individually on a plate. There is sometimes quite a bit left on the plate, since I dry the pieces off real good before rubbing. I could be measuring & applying 1  3/8 ounce of TQ, and shaking off a half ounce. If my method seems too exacting to some, then I just like to err on the side of caution. I figure it's a better way to teach Newbies. If they want to change later, that's up to them.
> 
> Bear
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bear, Thanks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only do it this way because it is in the instructions from the Morton Tenderquick recipe that I use. I follow their instructions to a T.
> 
> jeanie
Click to expand...

Yeah, Morton's recipes leave a lot to be desired.

Here's their's for CB.

No mention of shaking cure off.

No mention of flipping it.

No mention of the size of the Loin, yet they're saying cure it for 3 to 5 days.

Did you ever cure a loin for 3 to 5 days?

In my book that would be a pretty small loin to get it cured all the way through.

That's why I use my common sense & what I learned here, instead of their time & temp things.

Common sense says if you're going to measure the amount of cure with an accurate scale, it should all go in the bag with the meat it was measured for.

I follow their rule for how much cure to use, but not a lot of their other things.

Right from their site:

---------------------------------------

Canadian Bacon 





  View Printer-Friendly Version 





  Add to Recipe Box
  More recipes  with Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Tender Quick[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Product
 More recipes  with Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Sugar Cure[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Product (Plain and Smoke Flavored)

*Prep Time:*  20 minutes; refrigerate 3-5 days  
*Servings:*  1 pork loin, cut into 1/8 inch thick slices
  *Ingredients *
1 boneless pork loin
1 tablespoon *Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Tender Quick[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  mix*  or *Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Sugar Cure[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup](Plain) mix*  per pound of loin
1 teaspoon sugar per pound of loin  
*Directions*

Trim fat from pork loin. Mix Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Tender Quick[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  mix or Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]Sugar Cure[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  
(Plain) mix and sugar. Rub mixture into the loin. Place loin in "food grade" plastic bag; 
tie open end. Refrigerate and allow to cure for 3-5 days. Remove from cure. 
Soak loin in cool water for 30 minutes; pat dry. Refrigerate uncovered to dry 
slightly before cooking.
Cut into 1/8 inch thick slices. Preheat skillet; brush with oil. Fry over low 
heat, turning to brown evenly, about 8 - 10 minutes.

Pea Meal Bacon: After loins are dry, rub liberally with a mixture of cornmeal 
and black and red pepper to taste. Cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate. 
Before frying, sprinkle slices with additional cornmeal.
 
----------------------------------------

I'm not trying to tell you how to cure. I'm just explaining my reasoning for what I expressly tell people.

This is one of the very few things I disagree with you about.

Thanks,

Bear


----------



## cowgirl

Bearcarver said:


> cowgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bearcarver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol Okay... I stayed up way too late last night and haven't had enough coffee yet this morning....but..... I've read this over and over and see nothing wrong here.  Some people have access to Tenderquick and some do not.  This recipe looks like a good one to try for those who do not have tenderquick.
> 
> Another note... I've cured a heck of a lot of meat in my life (thanks to how I was raised) and when using a dry rub on bacon, I rub the required amount called for  according to the weight of the meat... THEN I shake off any excess, wrap and let it do it's thing while chilled. (usually 5 to 7 days)
> 
> When curing larger cuts of meat that require several treatments with the dry rub, I measure out the exact amount needed (according to the weight of the meat)...Then divide the cure into how ever many treatments I'm going to do.   Sometimes a large cut requires treating twice in the 30 day cure period, sometimes the meat requires three treatments. I rub the meat and DO NOT shake off the access.
> 
> We are talking about two different methods of curing... depending on what cut of meat you are treating.
> 
> Hope that makes sense... lol
> 
> Now I really need another cup of coffee..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this doesn't make sense... just ignore me while I wake up. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeanie,
> 
> I have to disagree without being disagreeable on one point in your post. I really hate to do that, because I have more respect for you than you can imagine.
> 
> I know you and others have in your instructions to shake the cure off after rubbing. I am dead set against that. I figure if I'm gonna shake it off, why did I bother measuring it so accurately. I know how much falls off of my pieces, because I do them individually on a plate. There is sometimes quite a bit left on the plate, since I dry the pieces off real good before rubbing. I could be measuring & applying 1  3/8 ounce of TQ, and shaking off a half ounce. If my method seems too exacting to some, then I just like to err on the side of caution. I figure it's a better way to teach Newbies. If they want to change later, that's up to them.
> 
> Bear
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bear, Thanks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only do it this way because it is in the instructions from the Morton Tenderquick recipe that I use. I follow their instructions to a T.
> 
> jeanie
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, Morton's recipes leave a lot to be desired.
> 
> Here's their's for CB.
> 
> No mention of shaking cure off.
> 
> No mention of flipping it.
> 
> No mention of the size of the Loin, yet they're saying cure it for 3 to 5 days.
> 
> Did you ever cure a loin for 3 to 5 days?
> 
> In my book that would be a pretty small loin to get it cured all the way through.
> 
> That's why I use my common sense & what I learned here, instead of their time & temp things.
> 
> Common sense says if you're going to measure the amount of cure with an accurate scale, it should all go in the bag with the meat it was measured for.
> 
> I follow their rule for how much cure to use, but not a lot of their other things.
> 
> Right from their site:
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> Canadian Bacon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View Printer-Friendly Version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Add to Recipe Box
> More recipes  [color= rgb(0,0,0)]with Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Tender Quick[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Product[/color]
> More recipes  [color= rgb(0,0,0)]with Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Sugar Cure[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Product (Plain and Smoke Flavored)[/color]
> 
> *Prep Time:*  20 minutes; refrigerate 3-5 days
> *Servings:*  1 pork loin, cut into 1/8 inch thick slices
> [color= rgb(0,0,0)]*Ingredients *
> 1 boneless pork loin
> 1 tablespoon *Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Tender Quick[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  mix*  or *Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Sugar Cure[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup](Plain) mix*  per pound of loin
> 1 teaspoon sugar per pound of loin[/color]
> *Directions*
> 
> Trim fat from pork loin. Mix Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  Tender Quick[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]  mix or Morton[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]Sugar Cure[sup][emoji]174[/emoji][/sup]
> (Plain) mix and sugar. Rub mixture into the loin. Place loin in "food grade" plastic bag;
> tie open end. Refrigerate and allow to cure for 3-5 days. Remove from cure.
> Soak loin in cool water for 30 minutes; pat dry. Refrigerate uncovered to dry
> slightly before cooking.
> Cut into 1/8 inch thick slices. Preheat skillet; brush with oil. Fry over low
> heat, turning to brown evenly, about 8 - 10 minutes.
> 
> Pea Meal Bacon: After loins are dry, rub liberally with a mixture of cornmeal
> and black and red pepper to taste. Cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate.
> Before frying, sprinkle slices with additional cornmeal.
>  
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> I'm not trying to tell you how to cure. I'm just explaining my reasoning for what I expressly tell people.
> 
> This is one of the very few things I disagree with you about.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bear
Click to expand...



 I should have specified.. I'm talking slab bacon.

Bear, I know you mean well but I'm going to follow the instructions I received from the company that made the product...not from a forum (not saying you...ANY one)...

I'm also not going to be convinced that the bacon I've made (a plethora of piggies worth) and my family made before me was not made correctly.

Thats a nice recipe you posted but it's not the one I use for Canadian Bacon either... I brine cure.


----------



## buffalosmoke

cowgirl said:


> BuffaloSmoke said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been using the above recipe from Charcuterie for some time now.....I've had really good results with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info BuffaloSmoke!
> 
> I've got the Charcuterie book and have had it for some time now... I've never tried a recipe out of it yet. lol   need to do that one of these days.
Click to expand...

CG....give the whiskey glazed smoked chicken a try.....really good stuff.


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## buffalosmoke

I should also add that I like the cure recipe from Charcuterie because it's not as salty as TQ....don't have to soak it as long. I'm also not crazy about the PG in TQ. I'm sure it's a small amount, but I prefer the cure without it. I store my unused cure in a mason jar that has been vac-sealed to keep it dry and fresh. I also carefully weigh the meat and the cure as well.


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## cowgirl

BuffaloSmoke said:


> cowgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuffaloSmoke said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been using the above recipe from Charcuterie for some time now.....I've had really good results with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info BuffaloSmoke!
> 
> I've got the Charcuterie book and have had it for some time now... I've never tried a recipe out of it yet. lol   need to do that one of these days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> CG....give the whiskey glazed smoked chicken a try.....really good stuff.
Click to expand...

Thanks BuffaloSmoke! I will check it out. :)


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## bbally

cowgirl said:


> Thats a nice recipe you posted but it's not the one I use for Canadian Bacon either... I brine cure.


I am a peameal guy for doing the Canadian......... I like the original!


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## cowgirl

bbally said:


> cowgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats a nice recipe you posted but it's not the one I use for Canadian Bacon either... I brine cure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a peameal guy for doing the Canadian......... I like the original!
Click to expand...



 Me too Bob! Love peameal bacon... hard to beat the real stuff.


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## bbally

> I am a peameal guy for doing the Canadian......... I like the original!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me too Bob! Love peameal bacon... hard to beat the real stuff.
Click to expand...

I would expect nothing less Jeanie!


----------



## cowgirl

bbally said:


> I am a peameal guy for doing the Canadian......... I like the original!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me too Bob! Love peameal bacon... hard to beat the real stuff.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would expect nothing less Jeanie!
Click to expand...

lol (((HUGS))) Bob


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## bilder

> My findings on jerky making actually go into a whole new realm, which not only includes the danger zone, as we all know it referred to as, but, the fact that you are drying out the meat brings a little known (to many folks)additional possibility for microbial issues. I have never made uncured jerky myself either, no will I ever, knowing what I know about dried meats. For starters, moisture has everything to do with the life cycles of microbial organisms, up to and including their death, if heat is expected to be an effective exterminator, if you will.
> 
> 
> 
> dougmays said:
> 
> 
> 
> seems like that should be very easy to do since the cuts of meat are so thin....for non-cured meat what temp would you smoke at? 120? 150?
> 
> 
> 
> To go along with what I mentioned above, Doug, I must stress the following be completely understood before you consider making uncured jerky, as things can go very badly without you even knowing it until you're sick from it. Well, let me just say that if you want a really good tasting and good eating uncured jerky, you can't process it at low temperatures. The meat must be brought up to temperatures which will kill the pathogens (160*, if I recall) before it becomes dried. Basically, the meat has to cooked before it is dried...not conducive to a good jerky. If this is not followed, the live pathogens could become heat resistant due to the reduced moisture content in the meat, thereby not being killed even though the meat may be taken to a safe temp, but this being post-dried, resulting in colonizing to levels which may become unsafe for human consumption when the temperature of the meat does reach levels which the microbes can begin to thrive again, that being room temperature. Let me see if I can find the info again...it's been quite a while since I last read it.
Click to expand...

I have made uncured jerky before and honestly, it is not worth the effort or worry.  I feel that you get a superior product by using a cure as well as a safer product.  Without a cure you really have to watch what you are doing and take care to hit the right temps for the right amount of time.  

Stick with a cure.  Both safer and easier.


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## Bearcarver

*Morton's instructions for making Bacon---*

The following is taken directly, and word for word from:

*Morton Home Meat Curing Guide*

*Bacon*

 It is recommended that bacon be given the dry cure treatment.  Cure with one application of 1/2 ounce (1 tablespoon) Morton Sugar Cure (Plain or Smoke Flavored) mix per pound of meat.  Rub cure on entire surface of the belly and apply excess mix on the meat side of the belly if hog was not skinned.  Place belly in clean food quality plastic bag and store skin-side-down.  Cure at 36˚ to 40˚ F for 7 days per inch of thickness.
    After curing is completed, scrub excess salt off the belly in lukewarm water and dry with paper towels or place skin-side down on an open shelf in refrigerator 1-2 days.  Cut  the finished cured bacon into 1-2 pound chunks, wrap and refrigerate until consumed.  Use the bacon within one week or freeze up to one month.

Then it also states---*Morton's Sugar Cure (PLAIN) mix can be used interchangeably with Morton Tender Quick mix.*

=============================================================================================================================

At no place does it tell you to shake off any of the cure that you applied to the meat.

This means that all of those digital scales that we bought to measure our cure to the nearest 1/16th ounce, or to the nearest gram, are not rendered totally useless.

And if anybody wants to follow Morton's directions to a "T", this is it.

Bear


----------



## cowgirl

Bearcarver said:


> *Morton's instructions for making Bacon---*
> 
> The following is taken directly, and word for word from:
> 
> *Morton Home Meat Curing Guide*
> 
> *Bacon*
> 
> It is recommended that bacon be given the dry cure treatment.  Cure with one application of 1/2 ounce (1 tablespoon) Morton Sugar Cure (Plain or Smoke Flavored) mix per pound of meat.  Rub cure on entire surface of the belly and apply excess mix on the meat side of the belly if hog was not skinned.  Place belly in clean food quality plastic bag and store skin-side-down.  Cure at 36˚ to 40˚ F for 7 days per inch of thickness.
> After curing is completed, scrub excess salt off the belly in lukewarm water and dry with paper towels or place skin-side down on an open shelf in refrigerator 1-2 days.  Cut  the finished cured bacon into 1-2 pound chunks, wrap and refrigerate until consumed.  Use the bacon within one week or freeze up to one month.
> 
> Then it also states---*Morton's Sugar Cure (PLAIN) mix can be used interchangeably with Morton Tender Quick mix.*
> 
> =============================================================================================================================
> 
> At no place does it tell you to shake off any of the cure that you applied to the meat.
> 
> This means that all of those digital scales that we bought to measure our cure to the nearest 1/16th ounce, or to the nearest gram, are not rendered totally useless.
> 
> And if anybody wants to follow Morton's directions to a "T", this is it.
> 
> Bear


Bear, again.. I realize that you mean well. I also realize that you are new to making bacon.... I remember your first bacon making experience you posted here on the forum around a year ago.

I'm going to stick with the instructions I have (which have been around longer than you have been making bacon).

Some of us on the forum have been raising, slaughtering and curing our own meat for a lifetime.... and aren't going to change our ways.

Don't get me started on my old family recipe that uses enough salt to "float" an egg. lol  That recipe would probably curl your hair!


----------



## Bearcarver

cowgirl said:


> Bearcarver said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Morton's instructions for making Bacon---*
> 
> The following is taken directly, and word for word from:
> 
> *Morton Home Meat Curing Guide*
> 
> *Bacon*
> 
> It is recommended that bacon be given the dry cure treatment.  Cure with one application of 1/2 ounce (1 tablespoon) Morton Sugar Cure (Plain or Smoke Flavored) mix per pound of meat.  Rub cure on entire surface of the belly and apply excess mix on the meat side of the belly if hog was not skinned.  Place belly in clean food quality plastic bag and store skin-side-down.  Cure at 36˚ to 40˚ F for 7 days per inch of thickness.
> After curing is completed, scrub excess salt off the belly in lukewarm water and dry with paper towels or place skin-side down on an open shelf in refrigerator 1-2 days.  Cut  the finished cured bacon into 1-2 pound chunks, wrap and refrigerate until consumed.  Use the bacon within one week or freeze up to one month.
> 
> Then it also states---*Morton's Sugar Cure (PLAIN) mix can be used interchangeably with Morton Tender Quick mix.*
> 
> =============================================================================================================================
> 
> At no place does it tell you to shake off any of the cure that you applied to the meat.
> 
> This means that all of those digital scales that we bought to measure our cure to the nearest 1/16th ounce, or to the nearest gram, are not rendered totally useless.
> 
> And if anybody wants to follow Morton's directions to a "T", this is it.
> 
> Bear
> 
> 
> 
> Bear, again.. I realize that you mean well. I also realize that you are new to making bacon.... I remember your first bacon making experience you posted here on the forum around a year ago.
> 
> I'm going to stick with the instructions I have (which have been around longer than you have been making bacon).
> 
> Some of us on the forum have been raising, slaughtering and curing our own meat for a lifetime.... and aren't going to change our ways.
> 
> Don't get me started on my old family recipe that uses enough salt to "float" an egg. lol  That recipe would probably curl your hair!
Click to expand...

So you say you follow the Morton instructions to a "T", and I put their instructions word for word in the above post, and I don't know what I'm talking about, because you have been curing & smoking much longer than I have.

The fact remains that if you use a digital scale to measure exactly how much cure to use, and then you shake some of it off, you are NOT getting the proper amount of cure on your meat. And I have not found a Morton's recipe & instruction that says to shake the cure off after you rub it on, but before you put it in the bag. I have found one that doesn't say to shake it off, but that one is wrong because I don't know what I'm talking about. So the recipe I posted word for word from Morton's is wrong, and the one you didn't post, and I have not seen is right. I thought they only had one book.

I spend ALL of my forum time on this forum, and I just try to help people on this forum by giving any information I can find. I don't make things up. What I wrote was word for word from Morton's. If that is wrong---Then Morton's is wrong--They wrote it.

OK---I give up. 

Have a nice day,

Bear


----------



## cowgirl

Bearcarver said:


> cowgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bearcarver said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Morton's instructions for making Bacon---*
> 
> The following is taken directly, and word for word from:
> 
> *Morton Home Meat Curing Guide*
> 
> *Bacon*
> 
> It is recommended that bacon be given the dry cure treatment.  Cure with one application of 1/2 ounce (1 tablespoon) Morton Sugar Cure (Plain or Smoke Flavored) mix per pound of meat.  Rub cure on entire surface of the belly and apply excess mix on the meat side of the belly if hog was not skinned.  Place belly in clean food quality plastic bag and store skin-side-down.  Cure at 36˚ to 40˚ F for 7 days per inch of thickness.
> After curing is completed, scrub excess salt off the belly in lukewarm water and dry with paper towels or place skin-side down on an open shelf in refrigerator 1-2 days.  Cut  the finished cured bacon into 1-2 pound chunks, wrap and refrigerate until consumed.  Use the bacon within one week or freeze up to one month.
> 
> Then it also states---*Morton's Sugar Cure (PLAIN) mix can be used interchangeably with Morton Tender Quick mix.*
> 
> =============================================================================================================================
> 
> At no place does it tell you to shake off any of the cure that you applied to the meat.
> 
> This means that all of those digital scales that we bought to measure our cure to the nearest 1/16th ounce, or to the nearest gram, are not rendered totally useless.
> 
> And if anybody wants to follow Morton's directions to a "T", this is it.
> 
> Bear
> 
> 
> 
> Bear, again.. I realize that you mean well. I also realize that you are new to making bacon.... I remember your first bacon making experience you posted here on the forum around a year ago.
> 
> I'm going to stick with the instructions I have (which have been around longer than you have been making bacon).
> 
> Some of us on the forum have been raising, slaughtering and curing our own meat for a lifetime.... and aren't going to change our ways.
> 
> Don't get me started on my old family recipe that uses enough salt to "float" an egg. lol  That recipe would probably curl your hair!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you say you follow the Morton instructions to a "T", and I put their instructions word for word in the above post, and I don't know what I'm talking about, because you have been curing & smoking much longer than I have.
> 
> The fact remains that if you use a digital scale to measure exactly how much cure to use, and then you shake some of it off, you are NOT getting the proper amount of cure on your meat. And I have not found a Morton's recipe & instruction that says to shake the cure off after you rub it on, but before you put it in the bag. I have found one that doesn't say to shake it off, but that one is wrong because I don't know what I'm talking about. So the recipe I posted word for word from Morton's is wrong, and the one you didn't post, and I have not seen is right. I thought they only had one book.
> 
> I spend ALL of my forum time on this forum, and I just try to help people on this forum by giving any information I can find. I don't make things up. What I wrote was word for word from Morton's. If that is wrong---Then Morton's is wrong--They wrote it.
> 
> OK---I give up.
> 
> Have a nice day,
> 
> Bear
Click to expand...

No... I follow the morton method *that I have on hand *to a T.

  I think that you are new to making bacon and didn't say you do not know what you are talking about. I am saying that you should probably stick with what you are comfortable with. Those of us that use different methods, be it shaking off certain cuts of meat or using an alternate cure recipe from the Charcuterie book (or any other book) should stick to what works for them.

One rule of thumb for everyone... don't combine recipes unless you know what you are doing.

I do believe that experience means a lot....no matter what field, be it processing your own meat or flying a plane. Years of tried and true methods are nothing to sneeze at.
 

Don't give up on your bacon making or your effort to help people do it your way.

I'm just one of those people who prefers to roll fatties on a diagonal, prefers to smoke briskets whole instead of dividing them, prefers to cold smoke bacon in a smokehouse... (not cook it)... and prefers to use bacon and ham methods that have worked for me for years.

 I'm a firm believer in the old saying.. "There's more than one way to skin a hog".... I believe a person should try them all and then choose what's best for them.


----------



## bilder

Been talking with a couple folks who got upset with me and think we have straightened out some stuff to avoid further misunderstandings.

I may put together a write up for those of you who cannot find TQ in your area.  Till then, no matter what method you use, follow the directions given for the cure you are using and you will make some fine jerky.  If a recipe calls for TQ, use TQ.  If it calls for cure #1, use cure #1.   Once you have gained some experience you can adjust a recipe to fit the cure you have and be safe, but for the person who is new to making jerky and curing meats it is best and safest to stick to what the recipe tells you to use.

Till then here is one of my standard recipes. Nothing too fancy, just a good basic jerky:


*1 lb lean meat, thinly sliced*

*3/4 tsp. salt*

*1/4 tsp. cracked pepper*

*1 tbs. brown sugar*

*2 tbs. soy sauce*

*1 tbs. Worcestershire sauce*

*1 clove crushed garlic*
*1/4 teaspoon Cure #1*
*If you want more heat add a half teaspoon of crushed red pepper*
*If using a dehydrator, you can add a quarter to half teaspoon of liquid smoke if you want to.*
*Add enough water to just cover the meat and let it sit covered in the fridge for 12-24 hours, giving it a good mix half way through.  One thing I do is to take a plate that will fit inside the bowl you are using and use that to weigh down the meat and keep it submerged.  Then smoke or dehydrate at 130 for 6-8 hours. *


----------



## cowgirl

Good post Bilder... Thanks!


----------



## Bearcarver

bilder said:


> Been talking with a couple folks who got upset with me and think we have straightened out some stuff to avoid further misunderstandings.
> 
> I may put together a write up for those of you who cannot find TQ in your area.  Till then, no matter what method you use, follow the directions given for the cure you are using and you will make some fine jerky.  If a recipe calls for TQ, use TQ.  If it calls for cure #1, use cure #1.   Once you have gained some experience you can adjust a recipe to fit the cure you have and be safe, but for the person who is new to making jerky and curing meats it is best and safest to stick to what the recipe tells you to use.
> 
> Till then here is one of my standard recipes. Nothing too fancy, just a good basic jerky:
> 
> 
> *1 lb lean meat, thinly sliced*
> 
> *3/4 tsp. salt*
> 
> *1/4 tsp. cracked pepper*
> 
> *1 tbs. brown sugar*
> 
> *2 tbs. soy sauce*
> 
> *1 tbs. Worcestershire sauce*
> 
> *1 clove crushed garlic*
> *1/4 teaspoon Cure #1*
> *If you want more heat add a half teaspoon of crushed red pepper*
> *If using a dehydrator, you can add a quarter to half teaspoon of liquid smoke if you want to.*
> *Add enough water to just cover the meat and let it sit covered in the fridge for 12-24 hours, giving it a good mix half way through.  One thing I do is to take a plate that will fit inside the bowl you are using and use that to weigh down the meat and keep it submerged.  Then smoke or dehydrate at 130 for 6-8 hours. *




Bilder,

That looks like an outstanding recipe!

The next jerky I make will definitely be with that recipe.

Thank you very much!

Bear


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## scarbelly

Looks good Bilder - thanks for sharing the recipe


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## alelover

Anyone know who sells TQ around Charlotte, NC?


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## chef willie

Ok, little off topic here on the make your own or not subject <grin>.....but on the cures. I'm having difficulty finding the TQ here but I did find the Morton Sugar Cure available. Checked the Morton website & they state it can be used interchangably with the TQ mix. Anybody try this instead of the TQ? any difference in flavor? I did read the bag in the store and it was all about curing hams but I'm just wanting it to do jerky. My second batch of jerky is in the near future and I rely heavily on the info off this forum. Thinking of trying chicken tender jerky also...any feedback on that? Thanks in advance guys....SMF rocks


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## Bearcarver

Chef Willie said:


> Ok, little off topic here on the make your own or not subject .....but on the cures. I'm having difficulty finding the TQ here but I did find the Morton Sugar Cure available. Checked the Morton website & they state it can be used interchangably with the TQ mix. Anybody try this instead of the TQ? any difference in flavor? I did read the bag in the store and it was all about curing hams but I'm just wanting it to do jerky. My second batch of jerky is in the near future and I rely heavily on the info off this forum. Thinking of trying chicken tender jerky also...any feedback on that? Thanks in advance guys....SMF rocks


Just be sure to do what Morton's says.

I haven't used either of the sugar cures, so I didn't really study them, but I think it said TQ & the "Plain" sugar cure were interchangeable, but not TQ & the "smoked" sugar cure, but don't go by what I'm saying, because I'm just going on memory of reading it in passing.

If Morton's says you can use it, go for it, but follow their directions.

You can go to their site. There you can look at a few recipes, and you could buy TQ there, but the shipping cost hurts.

They also sell their "Home Curing & Smoking Guide"---only $4.99.

Bear


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## chef willie

Thanks Bear, you're correct...said the plain one was interchangeable. I'll have to try it out till I find TQ somewhere. Thanks for all your posts, very informative. You combine the cure in with the marinade? Last time I did a 2 step process...overnight with the cure and then again overnight in the marinade and then in the dehydrator the third day.


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## Bearcarver

Chef Willie said:


> Thanks Bear, you're correct...said the plain one was interchangeable. I'll have to try it out till I find TQ somewhere. Thanks for all your posts, very informative. You combine the cure in with the marinade? Last time I did a 2 step process...overnight with the cure and then again overnight in the marinade and then in the dehydrator the third day.


I would find a good recipe with TQ or that Plain sugar cure, but I'm sure it would be everything mixed at one time, and no longer than over night curing & marinating.

Bear


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## bilder

Some suggestions for those of you who cannot find TQ.

Try looking in places other than grocery stores.  Butcher supply shops and sporting goods stores are great places to search.  If you live in an area where hunting and fishing are popular, most sporting goods stores will carry some kind of commercially available jerky cure.  Butcher supply shops will often carry TQ or some other cure mix.  They are also great sources of local info and advice.  The local Wal-Mart up here carries jerky mixes in their sporting goods dept, but not in the grocery dept.  Go figure.

Hi-Mountain, LEM, Nesco, Cablea's and other such brands are out there.  Just follow the directions on the package and you will make some jerky.  I have used the commercial cures out there and most are decent to use.  I often add a little more pepper or some garlic to the mix if I want more zing.  Just do not add any additional cure or salt to the commercial mixes.  You will end up with jerky colored salt licks if you do.


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## alelover

Good tips. We have a Bass Pro here and some carnecerias. Got to be some somewhere here. Thanx.


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## fpnmf

If you have a publix up there they will order it for you.

 Craig


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## alelover

No Publix here. I wish we did.


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## alelover

I found some Tender Quick at a Meijer's in Defiance, Ohio last week. 4.49 a bag. It was dumb luck really. I had to go there on business and I was sick with a bad cold. Went there to get NyQuil cause it was across the street from my hotel. I thought I'd check the salt isle for the hell of it. And there it was. Took it home on the plane with me.

BTW. Great posts. Very informative.


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## fpnmf

Yaaaaa!

 Craig


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## cycletrash

Here in the eastern Ohio, Riesbeck's ( grocery chain here) Carries it . Its in the with salt.


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## rangecop

Our local Thriftway carries it.


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## gotarace

I don't have anywhere to find it locally also, but have ordered it online at http://www.lemproducts.com/category/Cure_Ham_Curing_Kits  The shipping 

was also reasonable. Hope this helps. Len


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## wwizard

Getting ready to try my first BBB, and Pork Belly Bacon.  Looks like I'll have to order one of the Morton's "curing" packages on-line, as I can't seem to be able to find it in any of the local stores.

My question is: Which one should I order:

1. Morton's Tender Quick Mix

2. Morton's Sugar Cure

3. Morton's Sugar Cure Smoke Flavored

Windwizard


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## Bearcarver

wwizard said:


> Getting ready to try my first BBB, and Pork Belly Bacon.  Looks like I'll have to order one of the Morton's "curing" packages on-line, as I can't seem to be able to find it in any of the local stores.
> 
> My question is: Which one should I order:
> 
> 1. Morton's Tender Quick Mix
> 
> 2. Morton's Sugar Cure
> 
> 3. Morton's Sugar Cure Smoke Flavored
> 
> Windwizard




All I ever use is #1---- "MTQ"

A few guys have been using #2 ----Morton's Sugar Cure, as it is interchangeable with MTQ.

Smoke flavored----#3---- is not interchangeable with TQ, and personally I would not recommend it for that reason.

My Opinion,

Bear


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## douglas louis

I found Morton Tender Quick at Smart & Final.


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## yummytime

It is not worth the time and gas, I just buy it on Ebay. Then again I buy alot of stuff on Ebay, saves time and money - plus I like getting stuff in the mail.


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## tt ace

I found the best prices including shipping on Ebay.  Plus the shipping was extremely quick and no tax.


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## wicheesy

I get mine at One Stop Jerky Shop, I am starting to sound like a walking advertisement for these guys. They provided me with quick shipping, they have good prices and I support local companies in Wisconsin when I can.

They have other cures for sausage and hams as well.

Morton Tender Quick - http://www.onestopjerkyshop.com/morton-tender-quick-1/


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## alelover

6.99 seems a little steep. I've never paid more than 4.99.


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## wicheesy

alelover said:


> 6.99 seems a little steep. I've never paid more than 4.99.




I think it was $5.99 the last time I bought it from them so they must have had a price increase, everything seems to be on the rise these days..Gees!

Like i said, they are are close by (same state) and they shipped my orders the same or next day I order so an extra buck or two isn't going to break me for the great service I have had with them. I have bought from LEM in the past but it takes them 3-5 days just to ship my order out which has ruined my weekend plans for meat processing. I haven't been able to find it locally so thank goodness for the internet, where would be without it!


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## sprky

Man we buy it here off the shelf of the grocery store. I think its some where around 3 bucks for a 2 pound bag. I'll check next time i'm at the store


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## bbqonice

older thread but what the heck...

For any cure especially if it is Tenderquick...you dont shake it off...you rub all the mixture on and leave it.  For slab bacon we lather it on and have excess in the tub....it sits in a bed of this spice and cure mix...covered in it. get rotated every couple of days for a 7 to 10 day cure.  if you shake it off you are not curing it.  and I would be worried about the health affects of not properly curing your meat.

the only difference between sugar cure and regular TQ cure is sugar cure has spices already added.  If you add your own spice blend then just buy regular tQ.

great topic...cured meats.


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## gwest77

Krogers sells TQ. If they don't have it in stock they can and will get it for you. I'm nt taking side but I agree with Bearcarver.


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## reinhard

Nesco and High Mountain have a cure package for their jerky mixes in their packs. Both use Tenderquick.  Here in Minnesota tenderquick is fairly easy to get in the 2 pound packs for around 4 bucks. Reinhard


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## gwest77

BBQONICE,

     Thanks for the info. I'm new to curing and smoking. Didn't know sugar cure had spices in it. but I have not bought any to read the back label either.


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## toolmantim

YOu do realize propylene glycol is Antifreeze, right. That sounds a bit more scary!


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## 4pogo7

ToolmanTim said:


> YOu do realize propylene glycol is Antifreeze, right. That sounds a bit more scary!


Ethylene glycol is poisonous. Propylene glycol is considered a "non-toxic antifreeze" because it is far less toxic than ethylene glycol. It is allowed by the FDA to be added to several processed foods including ice cream, frozen custards, salad dressings and baked goods.

All those delicious processed foods can't be that scary, right?! I love ice cream and baked goods!!


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