# Sourdough Rye



## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 19, 2020)

Cound not find any rye flour local.  Had to order amazon.  I want to make a sour dough rye.  Anyone made one before?


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## Sowsage (Dec 19, 2020)

Never made it but man that sounds good. Rye is one if my favorite.


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## chopsaw (Dec 19, 2020)

All my Rye attempts have ended up as croutons . Which were good , but hard to make a sandwich . 
I agree , sounds great . Be watching .


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## oldsmokerdude (Dec 19, 2020)

Brian, make it all the time (well a lot anyway).  I make mine using a firm starter (pre-ferment). Takes two days to make. Be happy to post or send you the recipe if you like.


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## chopsaw (Dec 19, 2020)

That looks fantastic .


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## thirdeye (Dec 19, 2020)

oldsmokerdude said:


> Brian, make it all the time (well a lot anyway).  I make mine using a firm starter (pre-ferment). Takes two days to make. Be happy to post or send you the recipe if you like.
> View attachment 475919


Please post the recipe.  Mrs ~t~ has done a lot of baking this year.


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## pushok2018 (Dec 19, 2020)

oldsmokerdude said:


> I make mine using a firm starter (pre-ferment). Takes two days to make.


Could you please explain what is "pre-ferment" starter? Also interested in your recipe....


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## SmokinAl (Dec 19, 2020)

My wife Judy makes it all the time!
It’s just awesome!
She has starter from the 1800’s.
Al


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## pushok2018 (Dec 19, 2020)

SmokinAl said:


> My wife Judy makes it all the time!
> It’s just awesome!
> She has starter from the 1800’s.


Wow! From 1800's? I tried to keep my starter alive in the fridge feeding it every 7 days and it was OK for three-four month. One time I forgot to feed it and is stayed there for abut two weeks so.... it got spoiled....
Any chance you can share your wife recipe for rye bread?


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 19, 2020)

Yes someone please post or message recipe!


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## SmokinAl (Dec 19, 2020)

OK guys I’ll try to find it in my recipe index, otherwise I will have to type out the whole thing.
Al


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 19, 2020)

pushok2018 said:


> One time I forgot to feed it and is stayed there for abut two weeks so.... it got spoiled....
> Any chance you can share your wife recipe for rye bread?



I go sometimes 2 months without feeding.  It always comes right back.   What make you think it was spoiled?  It does get that alcohol on top but just stir it back in.


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## pushok2018 (Dec 19, 2020)

Brian Trommater said:


> I go sometimes 2 months without feeding. It always comes right back. What make you think it was spoiled? It does get that alcohol on top but just stir it back in.


Hmm... I just read about not feeding the starter on time will get it spoiled.... OK, thank you for the advice - I'll keep that in mind....


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## SmokinAl (Dec 19, 2020)

I took a photo out of her cookbook. I hope you can read it. BTW Judy feeds her starter every week.
Here is the original recipe from Allrecipes:





And this is the variation that Judy uses.





This bread is really good!


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 20, 2020)

oldsmokerdude said:


> Brian, make it all the time (well a lot anyway).  I make mine using a firm starter (pre-ferment). Takes two days to make. Be happy to post or send you the recipe if you like.


I trying to bring back my firm rye starter, 66% hydration.  Been in fridge probably a year.  I took 30 grams and doubled it and put in proofing box.  Will see what happens.   What is your recipe?


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## oldsmokerdude (Dec 20, 2020)

pushok2018 said:


> Could you please explain what is "pre-ferment"


A pre-ferment is when a small portion of dough is made "in advance" and allowed to ferment for a long while (12 to 24 hours). It is then incorporated into the rest of the ingredients. The benefit is that the preferment allows for the development of alcohol and bacteria which ultimately adds more flavor and complexity to the final bread. 

My recipe is below. I am a big proponent of weighing ingredients instead of by volume; it's more precise and gives me more consistent results.  The kneading part is critical.  When finished, your bread should pass the "window pane test". Sometimes more kneading is necessary than indicated below. I alternate between using a dough hook on my mixer and using the "stretch and fold" method. Both work equally well.

My starter is 100% hydration. If you maintain a more stiff starter, you will have to adjust the water in the firm starter process.

*Sourdough Rye Bread*
*INGREDIENTS*
*FIRM STARTER*

7 oz Sourdough Starter
4.5 oz white rye flour
4 oz water
2 tbsp vegetable oil
*FINAL DOUGH*

16 oz bread flour or flour combination
4.5 oz white rye flout
2 tbs brown sugar
2.25 tsp salt
2 tsp instant yeast
2 tsp caraway seeds (optional)
2 tbsp shortening or vegetable oil
8 oz milk or buttermilk (warmed)
2 to 4 oz lukewarm water
*INSTRUCTIONS*
*MAKING FIRM STARTER*

Add rye flour, warmed starter, and water to bowl and mix together just until flour is hydrated.
If using onions, saute over medium heat until they just begin to sweat
Let onions cool
Add onions to the starter, place firm starter in small, oiled bowl and cover
Ferment at room temperature about 4 hours or until at least double in size.
Place in refrigerator over night (at least 12 hours)
*MAKING DOUGH*

Remove firm starter from refrigerator
Cut starter into 10 small pieces, mist with oil, cover, and let warm up at least an hour
In 4 qt bowl, stir together flours, brown sugar, yeast, caraway seeds, and salt
Add starter pieces, shortening, and milk
Stir, adding just enough water to bring everything together into a soft but not sticky ball
Let rest 5 minutes for gluten to begin to form
If using mixer and dough hook, mix 4 to 5 minutes low speed. Adjust flour and water as needed.
If by hand, use pull and stretch or knead by hand 12 to 15 minutes
Place dough in large oiled bowl, coat with oil, cover with plastic wrap
Let Ferment 1.5 to 2 hours or until nearly double in size
*FORMING AND BAKING THE BREAD*

GENTLY remove dough from bowl
Divide into 2 equal pieces (or smaller for rolls) degassing as little as possible
Form into boules or batards and place into bannetons or into lightly greased loaf pans
Mist exposed dough and loosely cover with plastic wrap
Proof dough about 1.5 hours or overnight in refrigerator. If in refrigerator, remove dough 4 hours before baking
Prepare oven with steam pan, baking stone, and preheat to 350 for loaf pans or 400 for free standing loaves
Gently transfer loaves to parchment paper
Score the loaves
Place in oven with 1 cup water in pan. Every 30 seconds for first two minutes spray oven walls with water.
Bake for 35 to 60 minutes depending on shape, rotating halfway through
Should be 185 to 195 in center
Transfer to rack and cool at least 45 minutes before slicing.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 20, 2020)

oldsmokerdude said:


> A pre-ferment is when a small portion of dough is made "in advance" and allowed to ferment for a long while (12 to 24 hours). It is then incorporated into the rest of the ingredients. The benefit is that the preferment allows for the development of alcohol and bacteria which ultimately adds more flavor and complexity to the final bread.



Thanks for sharing.  This sounds good.


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## pushok2018 (Dec 20, 2020)

oldsmokerdude said:


> A pre-ferment is when a small portion of dough is made "in advance" and allowed to ferment for a long while (12 to 24 hours).


Thank you very much for the explanation. I appreciate that...


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 21, 2020)

oldsmokerdude said:


> *FIRM STARTER*
> 
> 7 oz Sourdough Starter
> 4.5 oz white rye flour
> ...


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 22, 2020)

Trying to decide which recipe to make.  I don't have the white rye flour for 

 oldsmokerdude
 recipe and I don't have the rye bread improver and malt powder for 

 SmokinAl
 recipe.  Maybe I need to combine them?


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## oldsmokerdude (Dec 22, 2020)

Brian Trommater said:


> I don't have the white rye flour


You can use whatever rye flour you have on hand. Keep in mind you may need to adjust the water a bit as different flours absorb different amounts of water. 

Let us know how it turns out.


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## oldsmokerdude (Dec 22, 2020)

You can use whatever flour you have. You will probably need to adjust the water a bit as different flours absorb water at different rates.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 22, 2020)

This is my third and last attempt at a rye.  The first 2 where all rye flour so hoping the bread flour mix will be better.  I might have to get some of that enhancer.  Suppose to lighten up the texture.  I might also add some of that pickle juice if doing yours.  I could probably strain the rye flour some.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Jul 1, 2021)

SmokinAl said:


> I took a photo out of her cookbook. I hope you can read it. BTW Judy feeds her starter every week.
> Here is the original recipe from Allrecipes:
> View attachment 475948
> 
> ...


Al.  I thinking of trying Judy's  variation recipe.  Could you ask her if she follows the directions on the other one?  350 degrees oven seems pretty low.  I am use to doing sourdough at 470.


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## SmokinAl (Jul 1, 2021)

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> Al.  I thinking of trying Judy's  variation recipe.  Could you ask her if she follows the directions on the other one?  350 degrees oven seems pretty low.  I am use to doing sourdough at 470.



Yes she bakes it at 350 for loaves. If she’s making buns she does them at 400. She now bakes them in our air fryer, which is out on the patio, so the house doesn’t get hot. Actually she just made a loaf yesterday, cause I smoked a ham yesterday too. Can’t have a ham & cheese sammie without good rye bread!
Good luck!
Al


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## chopsaw (Jul 1, 2021)

SmokinAl said:


> bakes them in our air fryer,


I do the same . Works great for breads and rolls .


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