# Another MES 40 Gen 2 Victim



## Winterrider (Oct 14, 2018)

Did a heat test yesterday in my MES to find hot/cold spots. Had Maverick 733 on left side top and bottom, ThermPro TP 20 right side top and bottom. MES meat probe in center. All probes tested boiling water, 733 were both 212 ,TP20 both 211, MES probe 198.  Set smoker @275, top 2 probes maxed out @244 , bottom left @ 239 ( knew that was the cold spot), bottom right @ 242, center @ 240. Smoker cycled up as high as 302 according to sensor. Think a phone call is in order tomorrow. Tuff figures to adjust to.


----------



## nanuk (Oct 14, 2018)

at least you have even heating....    Use a secondary probe to monitor interior temps, and just adjust the MES as needed to get what you need.
disregard the MES Temp readout.  Trust your tested probes.


----------



## Bloodtrail (Oct 14, 2018)

Newbie here. What’s a mES?


----------



## nanuk (Oct 14, 2018)

Masterbuilt Electric Smoker   MES30 is 30" high, MES40 is 40" high....   then there are different generations/series....


----------



## Bloodtrail (Oct 14, 2018)

Awesome, thanks. I had a MES 40”. Used if for about 6 months before the heating element went out. Took it back.


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 14, 2018)

Bad thing is I can't do anything at a higher than 245  degree temp.


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 15, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Did a heat test yesterday in my MES to find hot/cold spots. Had Maverick 733 on left side top and bottom, ThermPro TP 20 right side top and bottom. MES meat probe in center. All probes tested boiling water, 733 were both 212 ,TP20 both 211, MES probe 198.  Set smoker @275, top 2 probes maxed out @244 , bottom left @ 239 ( knew that was the cold spot), bottom right @ 242, center @ 240. Smoker cycled up as high as 302 according to sensor. Think a phone call is in order tomorrow. Tuff figures to adjust to.




If your MES was set at 275°, and all of your Digital probes are measuring 245° or less (MAX), I would call them & tell them your Smoker won't heat above 245°, and you paid for a Smoker that heats from 100° to 275°.
Be nice, and they should make it good in some way.  Probably a New Control unit.

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 15, 2018)

Very nice customer service.  I did call today and they tried to troubleshoot a few things with me . I was able to get the higher temps but the overruns  both ways are still way to extreme. I did a test at 235 and watched the cycles numerous times. Noticed on the down cycle the  controller tried to kick in at 234 but didn't actually, but would go at 231. Well this allowed temp to drop an extra 5 degrees on top of the normal run. Saw this happen 4 different times. Will call tomorrow for new controller $49.99. Purchased 2015


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 16, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Very nice customer service.  I did call today and they tried to troubleshoot a few things with me . I was able to get the higher temps but the overruns  both ways are still way to extreme. I did a test at 235 and watched the cycles numerous times. Noticed on the down cycle the  controller tried to kick in at 234 but didn't actually, but would go at 231. Well this allowed temp to drop an extra 5 degrees on top of the normal run. Saw this happen 4 different times. Will call tomorrow for new controller $49.99. Purchased 2015




That coasting down in Temp before rising, and up in Temp before falling is quite normal. I'm sure your Kitchen Oven is just as bad if you put a therm in & checked it.
However not being able to get the heat above 245° is not good. A new controller should fix that.

Here's a bit on eliminating much of that "Overrun" problem:
*Avoid Temp Swings in MES*


Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 16, 2018)

Thanks Bear, I have read that and it does help. My overruns @235 went all the way to 252 on high end and 218 on the low end and that is with Thermpro TP20. Overruns never did get any closer after 6-7 cycles. But I did see the power light try and come on @234 but didn't until 231. Masterbuilt having technical issues so no processing orders (controller) yet this Am.  Oh well , try again this afternoon.
Anyone else check temp by sensor? Set @ 275 unit kicked out @ 356, cooled and back on @319


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 16, 2018)

*Anyone else check temp by sensor? Set @ 275 unit kicked out @ 356, cooled and back on @319.*

You gotta get that new controller. I had a bad one once & it got over 325°. I could hear the insulation between the walls crinkling, and it kept up until it got back down to a decent temp.
319° is not good---356° is real bad, if those were your actual Temps!!!

Upon rereading this, I'm not sure what sensor you're talking about kicking off at 356 & back on at 319. I thought you couldn't get above 245°.

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 16, 2018)

With their troubleshoot, unplugging controller and plug back in they said it may reset. Cleaned probe and sensor (dime sized circle) on back wall about even with 2nd rack. Yes controller is a must...


----------



## dr k (Oct 16, 2018)

Your scenario is the same as mine when I decided on the WS-1510-ELPM Auber plug and play PID controller with tallbm's no back removal simple 10 minute bypass.  Now you can calibrate the sensor in boiling water to compare to your elevation boiling temp.  You can bring your controller inside when not using it.  You can Sou Vide/make yogurt with your analog slow cooker/rice cooker.  Your sensor threaded down the smoker exhaust vent can hang/clip next to your food or between racks for multiple rack smokes instead of a fixed sensor on the back wall.  I would take the $50.00 MB wants for their controller and invest it in something much more substantial and versatile.  I went on Auberins.com and read their manual online for the above controller when I wanted to cook ribs, pork butts and full packer brisket at 275*naked the whole time and could only get my Mes Gen 1 40 to an actual temp of 250-260* without food in it.  My original controller shut off my smoker when I turned on the light so MB sent me a new controller to pair with my original remote which works fine but I still went PID.  The longer I'm on SMF Electric Smokers forum the less confident I am with MB's OEM electronics and their philosophy of marketing/selling sub-par BT controller smokers and putting out new BT models before having a rock solid BT app/controller.  If the controller was free like others have gotten from warranties that expired five years after purchase, then take it.  I would reconsider buying Mes controller pure crap vol. II.  The only thing I need from MB is the heating element that fits their smoker and I have a spare because it will fail.


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 16, 2018)

Darn, wish I would have seen your post earlier Dr K. to investigate. Just got off the phone again from troubleshooting again. Not correct yet, so got one coming in the mail. Forgot to ask if they send new remote with or if my other will still be compatible. Anyone know that has gotten new controller ?


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 16, 2018)

Dr K, just peeked at that controller. When you say plug and play, the bypass consists of what? Is it explained? I have to admit, I am electrically challenged.


----------



## dr k (Oct 16, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Dr K, just peeked at that controller. When you say plug and play, the bypass consists of what? Is it explained? I have to admit, I am electrically challenged.


For my Gen 1 40 in the back of the manual it shows a few steps on how to pair your rf remote to the controller. I think all models with rf remote should have it in the manual. 

If you search here on SMF you'll see the thread by tallbm, simple no back removal rewire or something similar to that title.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 16, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Dr K, just peeked at that controller. When you say plug and play, the bypass consists of what? Is it explained? I have to admit, I am electrically challenged.



Hi there and welcome! 
See below after the dr k quote :)



dr k said:


> For my Gen 1 40 in the back of the manual it shows a few steps on how to pair your rf remote to the controller. I think all models with rf remote should have it in the manual.
> 
> If you search here on SMF you'll see the thread by tallbm, simple no back removal rewire or something similar to that title.



Here's the simple no back removal post: https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/

In a nutshell the rewire simply bypasses the MES control so that when you plug in the MES chord the electricity feeds to the heating element without the controller involved.  Now it simply just heats up and never stops like this.  Hence the need for the Auber Plug and PLay PID Controller.

The Auber PID controller has a temp probe you stick inside the MES (through the vent) to measure the temp in the smoker.
You plug your MES into the Auber PID Controller so the controller will now cut the power on/off to the MES.
Finally, you plug the Auber PID Controller into the wall socket.

Power goes from Wall > Auber PID Controller > MES Heating element.
You punch into the Auber PID controller your desired set temp (225F) and the Auber will cut the power on/off to the MES to hold a 225F temp inside the smoker.

It's pretty simple.  If you don't care to replace the crappy electrical connectors that masterbuilt uses, the rewire job is as simple as cutting the ends of 4 wires and then splicing the 4 wires to become 2 wires.  Then buying and using an Auber plug and play PID Controller.   All done! :)

I hope this info helps :)


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 16, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Dr K, just peeked at that controller. When you say plug and play, the bypass consists of what? Is it explained? I have to admit, I am electrically challenged.



If you would rather go with some type of aftermarket PID, there are guys who can help you, like "tallbm".

BTW: The dime sized circle on the back wall, I believe is the Overheat sensor.
The Smoker Heat sensor is the thing on the back wall that looks like a little "Toggle Switch".

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 16, 2018)

Thanks all; if the new controller doesn't do the trick, I'm in...


----------



## muddydogs (Oct 17, 2018)

dr k said:


> Your scenario is the same as mine when I decided on the WS-1510-ELPM Auber plug and play PID controller with tallbm's no back removal simple 10 minute bypass.  Now you can calibrate the sensor in boiling water to compare to your elevation boiling temp.  You can bring your controller inside when not using it.  You can Sou Vide/make yogurt with your analog slow cooker/rice cooker.  Your sensor threaded down the smoker exhaust vent can hang/clip next to your food or between racks for multiple rack smokes instead of a fixed sensor on the back wall.  I would take the $50.00 MB wants for their controller and invest it in something much more substantial and versatile.  I went on Auberins.com and read their manual online for the above controller when I wanted to cook ribs, pork butts and full packer brisket at 275*naked the whole time and could only get my Mes Gen 1 40 to an actual temp of 250-260* without food in it.  My original controller shut off my smoker when I turned on the light so MB sent me a new controller to pair with my original remote which works fine but I still went PID.  The longer I'm on SMF Electric Smokers forum the less confident I am with MB's OEM electronics and their philosophy of marketing/selling sub-par BT controller smokers and putting out new BT models before having a rock solid BT app/controller.  If the controller was free like others have gotten from warranties that expired five years after purchase, then take it.  I would reconsider buying Mes controller pure crap vol. II.  The only thing I need from MB is the heating element that fits their smoker and I have a spare because it will fail.



What dr k posted. The Auber works great though I feel kind of silly purchasing a MES 40 then gutting it within a couple months to add the Auber, I also removed the chip loader, chip tray and water pan. Good thing I got the MES on sale.


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 20, 2018)

Well after replacing the controller, ran a test @ 260. Was showing a good 5 degrees higher than my digitals showed. So bumped it to 265 on the high overun. Was getting temps from 253 - 270 on the runs. MES temps were showing 260 - 268 Not great with digitals but I can deal with that for now.  Unable to use remote with the new, Oh well. Maybe PID next spring, will see. Thanks all...


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 20, 2018)

As long as you can adjust your MES controls to get actual temps to at least 260° to 275° you're good.
I think they allow 15° off.

I can't use my Bluetooth, just because I don't own anything I can run it though, so I just use the controls on the console.

Also mine sometimes cycles in about a 20° range (Windy), but my Kitchen oven cycles more than 25°range.

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 20, 2018)

Yep, will just bump 5 degrees up of target temp.  Remote was just a convenience thing, can live without. Gotta get some meat ready...


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 28, 2018)

Well new controller on MES is not doing me justice. I think PID is in order. In this configuration temp set @275, highest reading was 210. When moved bottom rack to the top when IT showed 160 ( ahead of others ) the temps climbed to 239 maxed out. Gonna make for some rubber skin at those low temps, will have to hit the broiler to crispen.


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 28, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Well new controller on MES is not doing me justice. I think PID is in order. In this configuration temp set @275, highest reading was 210. When moved bottom rack to the top when IT showed 160 ( ahead of others ) the temps climbed to 239 maxed out. Gonna make for some rubber skin at those low temps, will have to hit the broiler to crispen.




When your MES control is set at 275°, what therm is reading210°, and where was that probe at the time?

Then when you moved the bottom rack to the top, what Therm climbed to 239° and where was that probe then?


Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 28, 2018)

On that middle rack in tinfoil right where oven thermo is. Left it there when raised rack


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 28, 2018)

Right now everything IT above 165 so removed except for middle pan. Temp still maxed 244


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 28, 2018)

Excuse me , Maverick probe


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 29, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> On that middle rack in tinfoil right where oven thermo is. Left it there when raised rack




Couple more questions:
#1   You have a Therm sensor wrapped in foil??  Why?
#2   Is your Heating element covered in foil at all?

It's too tight under the Heating element for the bottom drip pan. I would remove the bottom drip pan completely.
Then you can cover the actual floor with foil, without covering any of the heating element.
Where is your water pan? I leave mine in at all times---Empty.

I'd like to know---If you set your heat at 275°, without any meat in it, what Maverick temp do you get with the Maverick Sensor on the second rack, without touching any metal, and not wrapped in foil.
How long did it take to shut off & at what Temp, on the MES, did it shut off at.
And what temp did the Maverick read at the same time.

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 29, 2018)

I had it stuck thru the ball of tinfoil to keep it elevated off the rack. I took slanted drip shield and water pan out to allow more airflow for pellet tray (which would not stay lit) had to use tube.
Everything else was open as in pic. Bottom pan only has a 1/2" lip around it and sits flat, so should be insignificant.  Probe at time of smoke was from Maverick thru vent hole.
	

		
			
		

		
	






	

		
			
		

		
	
 Raining now, plan on doing some more testing soon. Will report back


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 29, 2018)

Normal setup with slant tray,water pan,and chip pan.


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 29, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> I had it stuck thru the ball of tinfoil to keep it elevated off the rack. I took slanted drip shield and water pan out to allow more airflow for pellet tray (which would not stay lit) had to use tube.
> Everything else was open as in pic. Bottom pan only has a 1/2" lip around it and sits flat, so should be insignificant.  Probe at time of smoke was from Maverick thru vent hole.
> 
> 
> ...





I forgot you had the dreaded Gen #2.
The reason I removed that bottom drip pan is without it, the foil can lay tight on the bottom floor, and not have to be curled around the heating element, but if you say it's insignificant, don't bother.
It's also easier to lay foil on a flat floor.

Check temps, like I said above, without any food in, and set at 275°.
Let me know what your tests show.

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 29, 2018)

Will do , thanks..


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 29, 2018)

Finally able to do some more heat tests and here is what I came up with. The MES looks like it is doing what it's suppose to when it is empty. Loaded temp just had be completely baffled yesterday. Not sure if had the pans in and a PID closer to cook zone if things would be more accurate. Don't like to do low temp cooks for certain foods.


----------



## dr k (Oct 29, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Finally able to do some more heat tests and here is what I came up with. The MES looks like it is doing what it's suppose to when it is empty. Loaded temp just had be completely baffled yesterday. Not sure if had the pans in and a PID closer to cook zone if things would be more accurate. Don't like to do low temp cooks for certain foods.
> View attachment 379338


Yes!  If MB had their temp sensor tethered like the meat probe, then they wouldn't have these temp problems.  On FB someone drilled a 3/16" or so hole in a cork (not all the way through) and put it on the Mes sensor to insulate it and increase the temp to 275.  Something to try if your running tests.


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 30, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Finally able to do some more heat tests and here is what I came up with. The MES looks like it is doing what it's suppose to when it is empty. Loaded temp just had be completely baffled yesterday. Not sure if had the pans in and a PID closer to cook zone if things would be more accurate. Don't like to do low temp cooks for certain foods.
> View attachment 379338




Yup---Without any meat in, it looks pretty good.
I don't know what the problem is when you have meat in it, but it wouldn't be the fault of the Smoker.
Having cold meat in a smoker can slow it up in rising, but should not stop it from getting to the set point.

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 30, 2018)

I will try a couple more smokes the way it is "without" foil pan and see what happens. Maybe pans block that much heat from rising ???
Got the bottom opened up to see what it looks like as far as wires. May need the professionals assistance if change is made. As stated before, I really lack when it comes to something like this. I did wire my shop completely myself on a new build, but different ballgame here.


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 30, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> I will try a couple more smokes the way it is "without" foil pan and see what happens. Maybe pans block that much heat from rising ???
> Got the bottom opened up to see what it looks like as far as wires. May need the professionals assistance if change is made. As stated before, I really lack when it comes to something like this. I did wire my shop completely myself on a new build, but different ballgame here.




You're ahead of me then---I don't touch Electric at all !!!

Looking at your picture in post #24, I don't see a problem with where those pans are.
However I still would pull that Bottom tray out & lay a sheet of foil flat on the floor instead.
I just don't like the way the foil seems to wrap around the heating element area, all bunched up.
Maybe it just looks that way.

Bear


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 30, 2018)

Yes, the picture makes it look like that. No foil on any element hardware. Thanks...
This looks confusing as heck also , yikes !


----------



## Bearcarver (Oct 30, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Yes, the picture makes it look like that. No foil on any element hardware. Thanks...
> This looks confusing as heck also , yikes !




Yup---That's where I go "Duhhh", and call upon " @tallbm "

Bear


----------



## dr k (Oct 30, 2018)

Winterrider said:


> Yes, the picture makes it look like that. No foil on any element hardware. Thanks...
> This looks confusing as heck also , yikes !


If you take off the back plate to the element you'll see the braided high temp wires are the tan/redish ones in your pic. In the bottom of your pic is the white smooth power cord neutral and next to it is the tan/redish element braided high heat wire. Cut and wire nut those two together. The black cube above (relay) that the smooth black hot power cord wire and the other tan/red high heat are terminated to should be cut and wire nut those two together and done. You can leave enough lead on the tags to put back if you ever want to. Plugged in to the recepticle is heating unplugged is off. Just plug into the PID.


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 30, 2018)

Kurt, when the time  comes bottom white & tan together, and black & tan that are both into relay together correct?  Should those 2 connectors be pulled from relay after cut or they will be dead anyhow ?


----------



## tallbm (Oct 30, 2018)

Winterrider
 I've sent you a PM with lots of text info but here here is a good image for a good visual.  Once you have the proper wires identified it is as simple as the image indicates to rewire for a PID.  

NOW, if you want to do a superb job you would replace the connectors on the heating element and the connectors on the safety rollout limit switch with hi-temp stainless steel ones because the crappy connectors MB uses are probably corroding on you right now and are the the other major failure point of an MES.  BUT, this isn't mandatory to get you up and running with a an Auber Plug and Play PID controller :)


----------

