# Water and sand



## pcpro215 (Jul 25, 2013)

Hello all,

In the past, I have used a pan filled with water when smoking my ribs.  However, after doing some reading on SMF, I noticed that some of you use sand.  

Naturally, this lead me to have a few questions.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






So, here they are:

1.  I was just going to get a bag of play sand from Meanrds (local home improvement chain).  I was wondering if this type of sand would add some kind of funky flavor to the meat?

2.  Is adding water to the sand necessary, or is there already enough moisture in it?   (I realize that water may need to be added during the smoking process)

Since this is my first attempt at using sand, I was just curious how the seasoned (no pun intended
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





) users of sand so it.

Thanks!


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## dirtsailor2003 (Jul 25, 2013)

Yep just plain old play sand is fine. You do not need to add any water to it. I smoke all my meats in a "dry" smoke chamber. You will want to cover the sand with foil.


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## pcpro215 (Jul 25, 2013)

Thanx for the reply!

Just curious.  What's with the foil cover?


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## dirtsailor2003 (Jul 25, 2013)

Keeps the sand clean.


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## pcpro215 (Jul 26, 2013)

Yeah.  The answer came to me about 5 mins after I posted my question.


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## hambone1950 (Jul 26, 2013)

And just to give another alternative , I use a brick wrapped in foil and it works very well as a heat sink.
I foil my water pan and the foil wrapped brick goes in....the smoker chugs along at 250 very nicely.  

:grilling_smilie:


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## ballagh (Jul 26, 2013)

My SS commercial fridge smoker I just built has a 1" granite slab in the bottom. Holds heat very well. And super easy to clean. I can shut my smoker down and 2 hours later it is still at 200 degrees. Uses hardly any pellets.  

Sent from my Sony Xperia Z


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## ravenclan (Jul 26, 2013)

took my water pan out and just use sand , like it was said above , covered in foil to keep it clean. the water pan is to help keep the chamber up to temp when you open the door to add wood or to just peek at the meat.

after i took out the water my chamber seems to stay alot cleaner and i have plenty of moisture from the meat


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## bobank03 (Jul 26, 2013)

Will this work in any kind of smoker? I have a charcoal ECB and I am also contemplating the switch to either sand or some other sort of heat sink. I sort of like the foiled bricks idea.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Jul 26, 2013)

bobank03 said:


> Will this work in any kind of smoker? I have a charcoal ECB and I am also contemplating the switch to either sand or some other sort of heat sink. I sort of like the foiled bricks idea.


Yes it will work in your ECB.


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## smoking b (Jul 26, 2013)

+1 on the sand from me


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## expat smoker (Jul 26, 2013)

So the sand or bricks is only for a heat sink?? I always thought that the water tray was to keep the smoke chamber moist to keep the meat from drying out.  Another function of the water tray is to catch the drippings, which can get pretty messy after a smoke and downright foul if you don't discard it the next day.


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## pc farmer (Jul 26, 2013)

Hambone1950 said:


> And just to give another alternative , I use a brick wrapped in foil and it works very well as a heat sink.
> I foil my water pan and the foil wrapped brick goes in....the smoker chugs along at 250 very nicely.


I use a fire brick in my water pan in the MES.


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## bama bbq (Jul 26, 2013)

I used to use water but someone suggested trying a pork butt with a foil wrapped clay saucer to get the bark I was looking for.  I tried it and use it for most cooks now. I rarely use the lower food grate so I place a disposable foil pan below the food on the top grate to catch drippings.


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## flash (Jul 27, 2013)

I use sand mainly thru the colder months. It gives you higher and more consistent temps in your smoker. I get the damp playbox sand and when ready for another smoke, add a cup of water and work it into the sand to moisten it up some. I think it makes the sand denser and keeps the temps more consistent.


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## ps0303 (Jul 27, 2013)

I used bricks today for the first time.  It seemed to work out great.  I didn't have any sand when I went to start the smoker.  I don't think I will be using water again.


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## bobank03 (Jul 28, 2013)

I wrapped an old cobble stone with aluminum foil and put it in my water pan and found that my ECB held pretty good temps at 250 4-5 hours long with minimal attention. 













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No more water for me!


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## mike65 (Jul 28, 2013)

bobank03 said:


> I wrapped an old cobble stone with aluminum foil and put it in my water pan and found that my ECB held pretty good temps at 250 4-5 hours long with minimal attention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bob,  If you no longer use water, what are you using to keep the meat moist?   With my last smoke for the Pork Butt, I soaked Pecan and Cherry Chips in the water pan.  I find once the water boils the taste goes in the meat.


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## mikelikessmoke (Jul 28, 2013)

Low and slow naturally keeps the meat moist and tender.

Also steam from the water boiling off disguises the amount of smoke you are actually producing as well as softens the bark to where it never really develops properly.

At least that was my experience before I quit using water in my pan.


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## kingfishcam (Jul 28, 2013)

I have been using foil pans for the meat all the time now.  Still get a great smoke, and zero mess.  Also makes foiling process easy.


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## mike65 (Jul 28, 2013)

MikeLikesSmoke said:


> Low and slow naturally keeps the meat moist and tender.
> 
> Also steam from the water boiling off disguises the amount of smoke you are actually producing as well as softens the bark to where it never really develops properly.
> 
> At least that was my experience before I quit using water in my pan.


Mike,

The ECB needs all the help they can get. I have been thinking about purchasing another set of hooks to install another area for sand, but still on the fence about it.  Currently my ECB is it's best with all the Mod help.


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## hambone1950 (Jul 28, 2013)

bobank03 said:


> I wrapped an old cobble stone with aluminum foil and put it in my water pan and found that my ECB held pretty good temps at 250 4-5 hours long with minimal attention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Holy moly , that's a huge chunka granite(?).....I bet that does the job all right! :grilling_smilie:


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## hambone1950 (Jul 28, 2013)

kingfishcam said:


> I have been using foil pans for the meat all the time now.  Still get a great smoke, and zero mess.  Also makes foiling process easy.



X2 on the foil pans. Love them.  :grilling_smilie:


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## pcpro215 (Jul 28, 2013)

I just gotta say  that I LOVED that sand!   I will post some pics of my ribs tomorrow.


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## reasoning (Jul 28, 2013)

Im gonna try the sand idea..... Sloshed some water into the kettle today lol.


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## moses (Jul 28, 2013)

I have a 40 MES. Should I fill my water pan with sand and cover with foil or should it be placed in something else. Also if I decide to use the brick method, where should I place it and will just ordinary house bricks work and how many?


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## pc farmer (Jul 28, 2013)

moses said:


> I have a 40 MES. Should I fill my water pan with sand and cover with foil or should it be placed in something else. Also if I decide to use the brick method, where should I place it and will just ordinary house bricks work and how many?


I used a fire brick in the water pan in my 30.  then wrapped the waterpan in foil.


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## moses (Jul 28, 2013)

C farmer, 
Do you think a regular brick will work?


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## pc farmer (Jul 28, 2013)

Yea it would.


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## moses (Jul 28, 2013)

That's what I'll be trying out next time.


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## sodak (Jul 28, 2013)

For the sand, where do you fill it to.  I have an MES40 and the water pan has a water max level.  Do you fill it all the way to the top or just to the level it shows in the pan?


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## hambone1950 (Jul 28, 2013)

Sodak said:


> For the sand, where do you fill it to.  I have an MES40 and the water pan has a water max level.  Do you fill it all the way to the top or just to the level it shows in the pan?



I would just fill it 2/3 full or so....no need to make it too hard to handle....that way you can leave a depression in the foil to catch drippings and they won't go all over.   :grilling_smilie:

And FWIW ,  I use a regular red brick sometimes , but mostly I use a cement brick....for a while I was even using a couple pounds of pea stone gravel....it all works.


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## s2k9k (Jul 28, 2013)

Hambone1950 said:


> I would just fill it 2/3 full or so....no need to make it too hard to handle....that way you can leave a depression in the foil to catch drippings and they won't go all over.   :grilling_smilie:
> 
> And FWIW ,  I use a regular red brick sometimes , but mostly I use a cement brick....for a while I was even using a couple pounds of pea stone gravel...*.it all works.*



Yea! Don't over think this. You are just trying to create a thermal mass!


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## ravenclan (Jul 29, 2013)

I have found that the water in the smoker is not for the meat but too keep the temp when you do have to open the door to add wood or just to peek at the meat.

their is a lot of good info on here about the subject , and as was said before low and slow cooking and the meat will stay moist.

I noticed that while i was cooking and useing a water pan i had a lot of maisture inside the smoker but this was alos because the meat was also putting out moisture , after i took the water pan out i had less moisture in the chamber but the meat had enough that it didnt dry out , even after a 10 - 15 hour smoke with my briskets.


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## gitnby (Aug 8, 2013)

It would seem to me that the pea gravel or denser stone would be better than sand?

Sand will heat up quicker, but won't hold temp as well as a denser material.

Dry sand will tend to absorb moisture, thereby robbing your smoker of the natural moisture for the meat.

Even if you put water in the sand initially, wet sand will still absorb some moisture, but may also add unwanted moisture/humidity to the chamber.

I think I'll go with pea gavel or river gravel.

Will let you know how it works!


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 8, 2013)

GITNBY said:


> It would seem to me that the pea gravel or denser stone would be better than sand?
> 
> Sand will heat up quicker, but won't hold temp as well as a denser material.
> 
> ...


I have run both sand and gravel and have found that both retain the heat very well. The sand actually compacts into a tighter mass with less air voids than the pea gravel. When thinking of a radiant heat you want the densest material possible so you do not loose heat via convection with the air gaps.

I have been running a dry smoke chamber for more than ten years and have never not been able to produce a moist juicy product. You do not need water in your smoker, you do not need to spritz, and you do not need to brine to keep your meat from drying out. You do have to pay attention to your smokers temp and to the IT of what your cooking.


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## gitnby (Aug 8, 2013)

Maybe I''ll put in some gravel and then fill in with sand?
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Cuddent hoit?


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## s2k9k (Aug 8, 2013)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> I have run both sand and gravel and have found that both retain the heat very well. The sand actually compacts into a tighter mass with less air voids than the pea gravel. When thinking of a radiant heat you want the densest material possible so you do not loose heat via convection with the air gaps.
> 
> I have been running a dry smoke chamber for more than ten years and have never not been able to produce a moist juicy product. *You do not need water in your smoker, you do not need to spritz, and you do not need to brine to keep your meat from drying out. You do have to pay attention to your smokers temp and to the IT of what your cooking.*



I totally agree with that statement!


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## draken (Aug 8, 2013)

Switched from water to sand for my second ever use of my MES 30" and noticed the temp didn't swing very much compared to the first time when I used water. First time had 20+ degree swings on either side of set point. With sand in the water tray, it didn't swing more than 5 degrees on either side of set point. That was proof enough for me.


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## gitnby (Aug 8, 2013)

Appreciate your input.

Regarding the brine: doesn't the brine also serve to allow the smoke to better penetrate?

At least, that's what I have heard?


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## dirtsailor2003 (Aug 8, 2013)

GITNBY said:


> Appreciate your input.
> 
> Regarding the brine: doesn't the brine also serve to allow the smoke to better penetrate?
> 
> At least, that's what I have heard?



All meat contains moisture already right? So if that's what makes smoke penetrate it then the meat is already set to go!!! 

I smoked a blob of tofu for my fiancée which is wetter than any piece of meat I've smoked and it had less smoke flavor than any meat I smoke!!!


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## fwismoker (Aug 8, 2013)

GITNBY said:


> Appreciate your input.
> 
> Regarding the brine: doesn't the brine also serve to allow the smoke to better penetrate?
> 
> At least, that's what I have heard?


No sir, there is no correlation between brining and smoke penetration.


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## gitnby (Aug 19, 2013)

Update on using heat sink:

Filled water tray with combination of sand and gravel, covered it with foil and placed under bottom rack on MES 30.

Smoked a bunch of wings, using wood chips in tray and everything worked out great!

Temp stayed solid, only losing 10 degrees when I opened door to rotate racks.

However, when I used the AMPS on a brisket, the tray seemed to limit the ability of the AMPS to do it's thing?

Almost went out a couple of times?

Not sure why, but when I took the tray out, the AMPS worked perfectly!

Good smoke came from it for 7 hours.


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## chuckles (Oct 29, 2013)

So, does the sand or brick heat sink help keep the box hot, or at least warmer, when you open the door?  Does that help temp recover faster?


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## dirtsailor2003 (Oct 29, 2013)

Chuckles said:


> So, does the sand or brick heat sink help keep the box hot, or at least warmer, when you open the door?  Does that help temp recover faster?



Yes to both questions. The additional these mass also helps stabilize temps in windy wet and cold weather.


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## grimm5577 (Oct 30, 2013)

Man i feel like such an idiot for never thinking about the foil. I always have such a mess after a cook.


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## luv2qandgrill (Oct 31, 2013)

Do you use an empty pan or do you put something in it for a heat sink (or water)?  My terracotta pan finally cracked so I picked up some 12 in aluminum deep dish pizza pans.  I know several mini WSM owners have posted that they stopped using terracotta and switched to pie pans, etc., I'm going to smoke some very thick pork chops this Sunday and I'm debating on whether to put sand or bricks in the pan or just use the pan alone as a diffuser.


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## bigdaddydon (Oct 31, 2013)

Do you put your meat directly into foil pans, or foil pan on grate below the meat?  I too am thinking to try meat in the foil pan.  I hate clean up after a smoke the next day.


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## bikenstein (Nov 1, 2013)

I foil my pan which is always below the meat. I only put water in to lower my temp when it gets too hot. Think I will try the sand though to help stabilize and maintain the temperature. Maybe the sand will absorb the heat on start ups and prevent the temp from rising too high initially. I have found that liquids in the pan do not seem to moisturize the meat.


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## hambone1950 (Nov 1, 2013)

luv2qandgrill said:


> Do you use an empty pan or do you put something in it for a heat sink (or water)?  My terracotta pan finally cracked so I picked up some 12 in aluminum deep dish pizza pans.  I know several mini WSM owners have posted that they stopped using terracotta and switched to pie pans, etc., I'm going to smoke some very thick pork chops this Sunday and I'm debating on whether to put sand or bricks in the pan or just use the pan alone as a diffuser.



What you put in the water pan really depends  on what temp you want to cook at. If I put a brick in my water pan the smoker will run at 250 degrees because of the heat sink properties of the brick.... The empty water pan will act as a heat shield or diffuser , but the smoker will run at 300 or higher. 

SO... If you want to cook those thick chops fairly slowly and let them take on some smoke , I would go with the heat sink of your choice. If you want to roast them as if in an oven , then you could go with just the water pan. You could sear them after if you go low and slow or you could sear them first (obviously)
But if you cook them to an IT of  around 150 , I don't think you can fail. Good luck.


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## elkmaster101 (Nov 1, 2013)

yep its time of the year for me to start thinking about smoking.

 just did a test burn in the hearth she is ready, really not. this was last year but then again i got excited thinking about Butts













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## dave17a (Nov 1, 2013)

How much sand in WSM, water pan? Thanks Dave


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## bama bbq (Nov 1, 2013)

dave17a said:


> How much sand in WSM, water pan? Thanks Dave





Hambone1950 said:


> I would just fill it 2/3 full or so....no need to make it too hard to handle....that way you can leave a depression in the foil to catch drippings and they won't go all over.   :grilling_smilie:


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## hambone1950 (Nov 1, 2013)

Thanks , bama. I didn't even realize this was that same thread. LOL


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## cekkk (Nov 2, 2013)

This is a great thread for me.  I thought the MES 30s water pan was for moisture.  Living at a high altitude the cold temperatures have given me problems maintaining temp when I opened the door.  Our "dirt" is merely decomposed granite,  and there are tons of future DG on the property.  I'll pick up a couple chunks for the water pan.

What would be wrong with putting unfoiled granite in the bottom pan which now just collects drippings and funnels them out the rear?  I can just throw them awayinstead of cleaning them.


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