# Making Black forest ham?



## kawboy (Mar 2, 2020)

My wife goes through a lot of ham for lunches. I offered to make her some ham or turkey breasts for her lunches. She informed me that she only eats Blackforest ham for her lunches. She wraps them with cheese to eat on the go. What is the main difference between say loin ham, and blackforest ham? The little bit I've looked into it, blackforest calls for smoking with pine. Anyone got a good go to for it? Thanks


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## smokerjim (Mar 2, 2020)

smoking with pine sounds a little odd, i'm sure someone will jump in with your answers though.


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## smokerjim (Mar 2, 2020)

I did google it, yeah in germany where it originated they dry cure for like a month and what I read  they do smoke it with pine. not sure what type of pine they use over there.


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## olecrosseyes (Mar 2, 2020)

Concerning the Pine.

First of all remember the pine that is available in today's lumber yards is not the pine that we had available 40/50 years ago and nor is it the pine that was available to us 100 years ago.

What I'm referring to is the age of the tree that is harvested. Today the trees are quite a bit less dense due to their total age. Therefore there is more softer rings and those may have more sap. The older the more aged, think of dry aging meat.

Even tho I may not be the sharpest tac, I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express one night. (I just don't remember when that was!) wink wink.


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## chef jimmyj (Mar 2, 2020)

There is the Tradional Dry Cured Black Forest Ham, expensive and not widely available in the US. More likely, I think your wife is talking about Boar's Head Black Forest Ham. It uses some traditional seasoning and is Beechwood Smoked. I would use DaveOmak's Ham Recipe, rubbed with the Spices below and smoke with A-MAZE-N Beech Pellets...JJ

From The Spruce Eats...

2 tablespoons black peppercorns
2 tablespoons juniper berries
10 bay leaves (whole)
2 teaspoons coriander (seeds)
2 teaspoons marjoram (dried)

Grind into a powder and coat the Cured Ham before Smoking per Dave's instructions.


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## indaswamp (Mar 2, 2020)

I like that advice Chefjj.....I might would add a touch of cherry wood to get that darker color like black forest ham......


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## chef jimmyj (Mar 2, 2020)

I totally agree, Sir Swamp...JJ


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## indaswamp (Mar 2, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> I totally agree, Sir Swamp...JJ


Ya know....now that I think about it...I might would throw some juniper berries in the fire too. Ought to simulate that spruce smoke fairly well.....


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## chef jimmyj (Mar 2, 2020)

There you go. And sip a quality GIN letting the scent of Juniper stimulate your senses.
Dang, now I want to make a Black Forest Ham! Or, a least have a Martini...JJ


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## indaswamp (Mar 2, 2020)

LOL!!!


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## kawboy (Mar 3, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> There is the Tradional Dry Cured Black Forest Ham, expensive and not widely available in the US. More likely, I think your wife is talking about Boar's Head Black Forest Ham. It uses some traditional seasoning and is Beechwood Smoked. I would use DaveOmak's Ham Recipe, rubbed with the Spices below and smoke with A-MAZE-N Beech Pellets...JJ
> 
> From The Spruce Eats...
> 
> ...


You are correct, it is the grocery store bagged stuff. Thanks for the Info, I'll have to try it after we get back from vacation.


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## pops6927 (Mar 3, 2020)

Black Forest ham - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## indaswamp (Mar 3, 2020)

So that's how the hams get so black....



> Black Forest ham can take up to three months to produce.[2] Raw ham is salted and seasoned with garlic, coriander, pepper, juniper berries and other spices. After curing for two weeks, the salt is removed and the ham aged an additional two weeks. It is then cold-smoked using sawdust and fir or juniper brush at a temperature of not more than 25°C (77°F) for several weeks, becoming almost black on the outside and acquiring much of its distinctive flavor. It is then air-cured for at least two weeks before sale


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## zwiller (Mar 3, 2020)

Funny...  I have a loin curing and on deck to smoke and running 50/50 oak/pine.  I have been wanting to do this a long time.  Made the dust this past week.  https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tractor-supply-pine-pellet-stall-bedding-40-lb

I did a few test burns sans food and felt it smelled promising.  He's not active but "brican" ran a softwood mix.  https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/schinkenspec-w-qview.112459/ He also posted his famous black forest seasoning.

Still not entirely sure how I am running the smoke yet.


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## kawboy (Mar 3, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> There you go. And sip a quality GIN letting the scent of Juniper stimulate your senses.
> Dang, now I want to make a Black Forest Ham! Or, a least have a Martini...JJ


You had me up until Gin!


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## Jabiru (Mar 3, 2020)

I have used Pine Cones before, was ok, but the smoke smelt acidic to me so never used again.


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## chef jimmyj (Mar 3, 2020)

Here is some great info on the subject...JJ 






						Using Pine, Spruce or Fir
					

I'm curious. Normally one does not want to use any of the above woods to smoke with. But lately I've been reading through a german cookbook, and it claims that Black Forest ham is smoked using spruce, and the bacon is smoked with pine. Also, I've read that in parts of Germany, Bratwurst is...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## zwiller (Mar 7, 2020)

Running a loin today 50/50 oak/pine.  https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/german-style-cured-loin.295767/ Also plan to smoke some cheese with that blend before it warms up.


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## Bearcarver (Mar 7, 2020)

As far as I'm concerned the only real difference in smoke from one wood to another is how strong it is. That's why I use Hickory most of the time. As for any kind of Pine to make that big a difference in the Flavor or Quality of Black Forest Ham, or any other Ham, I seriously doubt that.
It has to be in the quality of their Hams and/or the seasonings & methods they use in getting it done, not the species of wood.

Just My 2 Piasters,

Bear


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## zwiller (Apr 3, 2020)

Just realized I didn't update my results.  Smoked a loin 24hrs on 50/50 oak/pine.  The results were the opposite than I expected (and 

 Bearcarver
 was right).  The pine was far milder.  The result is that there is more natural pork flavor than typical.  Definitely not the flavor of "black forest style" ham at the store.  FYI legit BF ham is like proscuitto and nothing like the ham we think of.  That said, I love BF ham from the store.  Wife just bought some and I dead set on replicating.  For now, I actually think BF is just smokier than other hams.  I have researched and nearly all BF ham ingredients list "natural smoke flavor" so that means they are injecting liquid smoke.


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## Brokenhandle (May 19, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Just realized I didn't update my results.  Smoked a loin 24hrs on 50/50 oak/pine.  The results were the opposite than I expected (and @Bearcarver was right).  The pine was far milder.  The result is that there is more natural pork flavor than typical.  Definitely not the flavor of "black forest style" ham at the store.  FYI legit BF ham is like proscuitto and nothing like the ham we think of.  That said, I love BF ham from the store.  Wife just bought some and I dead set on replicating.  For now, I actually think BF is just smokier than other hams.  I have researched and nearly all BF ham ingredients list "natural smoke flavor" so that means they are injecting liquid smoke.


Any further luck experimenting with these?

Ryan


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## olecrosseyes (May 19, 2022)

I got my ears on and just finished the big yellow tupperware bowl of popcorn.
Standing by


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## zwiller (May 20, 2022)

Brokenhandle said:


> Any further luck experimenting with these?
> 
> Ryan


Still plugging away but not there yet.  Definitely will share once I got it.  Here's the latest.  Omak style injection with coriander steeped water instead of veggie stock + sodium erythorbate, and 24hr on beech.  Might be best yet but does not have that BF flavor.


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## Brokenhandle (May 20, 2022)

zwiller said:


> Still plugging away but not there yet.  Definitely will share once I got it.  Here's the latest.  Omak style injection with coriander steeped water instead of veggie stock + sodium erythorbate, and 24hr on beech.  Might be best yet but does not have that BF flavor.
> 
> View attachment 632287


I suppose I could offer my taste testing abilities! Oh poor me...have to try more ham lol! I know this is an older thread but was talking to my wife about it last night so went searching for it.

Ryan


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## indaswamp (May 20, 2022)

Please keep us posted on your progress....I am following your journey with keen interest. I love black forest ham. I hear the real deal is cold smoked for about a month though......


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## SmokinEdge (May 20, 2022)

This guy uses a preseasoned casing to make his BF ham. Might be something to that.


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## mneeley490 (May 20, 2022)

I used that spice combination as a cure for some bacon once. Flavor didn't really come thru.


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## zwiller (Jul 27, 2022)

Wanted to post an update.  Many know I am dead set on nailing the BF lunchmeat thing.  I have NOT given up, I just am not posting my fails. My fails are still dang tasty BTW.  Anywoo, last one I think I might have it and will run a few more to confirm but I wanted to post to see if others would play along.  I think the flavor is a combination of 2 things: longer smoke and freezing.  I threw the hunks in my post above in the freezer since 

 chopsaw
 suggested it might help.  I normally just plow through it.  Thawed a hunk and gave it a go last weekend...  S O B, he was right.  WAAAY better than a week old.  Not only flavor but texture too.


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## chopsaw (Jul 27, 2022)

zwiller said:


> I threw the hunks in my post above in the freezer since
> 
> chopsaw
> suggested it might help.


It has a positive effect for sure . Hands on tried and true results . Just the increased smoky smell is a plus . Thanks for the update . 
I'd have to double smoke a hunk of that .


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## Brokenhandle (Jul 27, 2022)

Yep, thanks for the update! Been wanting to revisit this thread!

Ryan


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## zwiller (Jul 27, 2022)

chopsaw said:


> It has a positive effect for sure . Hands on tried and true results . Just the increased smoky smell is a plus . Thanks for the update .
> I'd have to double smoke a hunk of that .


Rich, any idea how long you'd say is the minimum freeze?


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## indaswamp (Jul 27, 2022)

Glad this thread popped back up to the top....Been wondering how your progress was coming along on this project. Freezing huh?? Well isn't that interesting.....never would have thought that would make a difference....


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## zwiller (Jul 27, 2022)

Brokenhandle said:


> Yep, thanks for the update! Been wanting to revisit this thread!
> 
> Ryan


Happy to help after all I picked up so much from this group. 


indaswamp said:


> Glad this thread popped back up to the top....Been wondering how your progress was coming along on this project. Freezing huh?? Well isn't that interesting.....never would have thought that would make a difference....


Thought the same, but not any more.  Kid you not making me rethink things.  There was a joint here that had killer ribs and YEP they smoked offsite and froze them to send to their restaurants...


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## chopsaw (Jul 27, 2022)

zwiller said:


> any idea how long you'd say is the minimum freeze?


I really don't know . Most of mine are in there about 6 months . I would think a couple weeks  , maybe a month .


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## daveomak (Jul 27, 2022)

When I worked at a family-owned premium meat processing plant, BF ham was a process meat product similar to SPAM...  Boneless processed hunks of pig...  seasoned, packed into a bag and vacuumed tumbled for around 12 hours to extract the proteins and glue the hunks into a perfect formed ham...  Many of the process steps were not for publication, even to the employees...
Everyone could see the meat enter and leave the Buffalo Chopper, get bagged and enter the vacuum tumbler for the overnight tumble under vacuum...


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## JckDanls 07 (Jul 27, 2022)

Just picked this thread up...  I'm curious as well ...


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