# Adding Charcoal in the Wood Pan



## darthtrader (Oct 26, 2010)

I've read very brief comments about how some members add charcoal briquettes to their propane smoker wood pans.  I assume this is to get some of that charcoal flavor into the smoke.  Any other reasons besides that?  For those of you who do this, do you stack a specific way or just mix it in with the wood?  Do you let the charcoal smoke first before adding wood?


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## forluvofsmoke (Oct 26, 2010)

I use charcoal for a few reasons, but not that often...they are:

1) If cold smoking (110-120*) my cured jerky prior to drying, I've added hot coals for some heat and to get the smoke wood going without lighting the burner until I begin drying the jerky. When using this method I only use 6-8 briqs depending on ambient temps, wind, etc. I place the briqs touching each other, but not stacked, and put smoke wood touching the edge, while sometimes putting the wood on top of the briqs if I need, just to get it smoking;

2) For added flavor, as there is a noticable difference between chacoal fired and propane fired smokes, IMO. In this case, I keep the smoke wood(s) seperate from the charcoal unless I need extra heat to get the smoke wood started. Mostly, I just crank the burner to high flame when I start the smoke until I start smelling smoke, then back it off to reach the desired smoke chamber temp;

As for the actual smoke from the charcoal, I find it's best to get the coals heated up (if not burning) before adding any meat to the smoke chamber. Cold briquettes give off a very strong (and rather foul, IMO) smoke when they first get hot. Once that initial smoke has passed, you're good to go. I don't like to add cold briqs to the fire box in a charcoal smoker for this same reason. I get them at least to a partial burn in the chimney first, and this releases that initial smoke pretty well.

Eric


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## mballi3011 (Oct 26, 2010)

Now I have also tried to low temp smoke with my propane and I can only get it down to maybe 140°ish or so. I needed it more like 80° and then raise it. Now I have found that a single hot plate works much better and you can get them at CVS for maybe 10 bucks or so.


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## desi (Oct 28, 2010)

I never smoke without charcoal.  Follow the advise from Eric:

*2) For added flavor, as there is a noticable difference between chacoal fired and propane fired smokes, IMO. In this case, I keep the smoke wood(s) seperate from the charcoal unless I need extra heat to get the smoke wood started. Mostly, I just crank the burner to high flame when I start the smoke until I start smelling smoke, then back it off to reach the desired smoke chamber temp;*

*  *

*As for the actual smoke from the charcoal, I find it's best to get the coals heated up (if not burning) before adding any meat to the smoke chamber. Cold briquettes give off a very strong (and rather foul, IMO) smoke when they first get hot. Once that initial smoke has passed, you're good to go. I don't like to add cold briqs to the fire box in a charcoal smoker for this same reason. I get them at least to a partial burn in the chimney first, and this releases that initial smoke pretty well.*


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## j4165y (Nov 13, 2011)

This is by far the dumbest thread I have read... Get real guys this is a waste of time.


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 13, 2011)

j4165y said:


> This is by far the dumbest thread I have read... Get real guys this is a waste of time.


Forluvofsmoke...aka Eric...Is among the most TALENTED and PROLIFIC Smokers in our family...He is Highly Respected and a Trusted Source, you don't get OTBS Status for nothing!...You might want to discuss, Why he does a technique before making a general statement...Just Saying...Welcome to the SMF Family!...JJ


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## SmokinAl (Nov 14, 2011)

I gotta agree with JJ on that. Eric is a master smoker & his remarks are always well thought out & documented.


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## tt ace (Nov 14, 2011)

I agree with you guys.  I found this to be of help to me with my propane smoker.  There are different techniques and ideas for everyone.  I haven't used any charcoal with my smoker, but this does open up the possibility that I will.


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## michael ark (Nov 14, 2011)

I agree  with JJ and AL .While i never use charcoal.His post made perfect sense .Maybe he just above you skill set and understanding of tbs after all he is otbs.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I don't use charcoal because my GOSM wide body is not set up to have 2 fires in it.I can't control the temps when using charcoal no lower adjustable vents. Just a air intake on bottom.


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## cobramo (Nov 14, 2011)

I have used charcoal in my propane smoker for flavor but I don't use Kingsford or something similar, to many additives and I think you get that taste in the meat. I use a lump charcoal made from hard woods with no chemical added. I use this same charcoal as a base for all my smoking needs it works really well. I like Desi's idea of getting the charcoal started before adding to you're existing fire.


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## smokininidaho (Nov 14, 2011)

I use Royal Oak in my GOSM, use a chimney to get it going, get it burning  and then put it in the GOSM with some apple and cherry chunks on the bottom of the pan, put  the hot coals on top of the wood a few chips and small chunks on top and you have some great smoke and flavor going into your food, nice smoke ring is a bonus.


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## scooterbluz (Dec 11, 2012)

Well I cheat more than that. I use a propane torch to get my wood chips started. Takes about five minutes and your ready to smoke....


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## mdboatbum (Dec 11, 2012)

I believe I've read that it enhances the smoke ring as well. I know some folks use charcoal in an electric smoker for that reason. I'm not sure if propane has the same issues with a smoke ring as electric though.

Edit** DOH, just realized this is an old post. Hope the OP got all the answers he needed long ago!!


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## forluvofsmoke (Dec 11, 2012)

Mdboatbum said:


> I believe I've read that it enhances the smoke ring as well. I know some folks use charcoal in an electric smoker for that reason. I'm not sure if propane has the same issues with a smoke ring as electric though.
> Edit** DOH, just realized this is an old post. Hope the OP got all the answers he needed long ago!! :icon_cool:



With adequate chamber hunidity, my propane rigs produce a very respectable smoke ring. Electric won't give you that without pulling a trick or two.

Man, this IS an old thread! Ihad to read back to remember it...nothing wrong with pulling up old discussions, though...everyone here is still learning at least a few things yet, right? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!


Eric


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## dunn-a-que (Dec 12, 2012)

Knowing what they put in charcoal briquettes I would not use anything other than real "lump" charcoal.


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## ches (Dec 12, 2012)

I have to say, I am very green at smoking, and this thread got me thinking.  I have no put raw briquets onto my existing coal in the past, I don't do it when I am cooking out, but did not know why, interesting.  I use coal to get things going then use apple or cherry wood for smoke then heat.  Thanks for the info.

Ches.


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## veritas456 (Dec 12, 2012)

Well you are *entitled to your opinion*, as we are all. I don't know how good or bad Eric is. *BUT*, you should include *WHY *you believe him to be wrong. Anybody can be a "bomb thrower". Now how about backing it up?


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## pastorgadget (Dec 27, 2012)

I have a the Masterbuilt Dual fuel smoker and one of the benefits I thought about was that i could add charcoal if I wanted. It also provides a back up if I run out of propane, I usually have a spare tank but I have been caught with just one tank when grilling. So the Dual Fuel was a plus for me for using charcoal as a heat source if I choose and back up heat source.


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## rescue51 (Dec 30, 2012)

I'm glad I found this thread.  I learned some good info on what type charcoal to try in my gas smoker, and how to prep it.  Speaking of smoke ring, I got a pretty decent one on my beef roast the other day.  Mind you, this is my first smoker, so I'm still in a big learning curve.  Thanks for all the great ideas!


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## panthermountian (Dec 30, 2012)

If you folks are looking for true smoke flavor in your gas or electric smokers, you all are working way to hard with the chips and charcoal, to much mess to clean up and as mentioned the possibility of chemical taste, the easiest and cleanest way to get true smoke flavor on these units is to use what we competition cookers are using, look up *MoJobrickfire *on the web, this is a company that makes what resembles a large wood pellet made for either wood fired, gas fired or eletric smokers, they are 100% wood, no fillers or chemicals, they come in cherry, hickory, mapple ( maple/apple ) and a competition blend, you will be amazed at the results in your end product, tell them tony from Panther Mountain BBQ passed this on to you !!


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## tuntrep (Jan 1, 2013)

forluvofsmoke said:


> As for the actual smoke from the charcoal, I find it's best to get the coals heated up (if not burning) before adding any meat to the smoke chamber. Cold briquettes give off a very strong (and rather foul, IMO) smoke when they first get hot. Once that initial smoke has passed, you're good to go. I don't like to add cold briqs to the fire box in a charcoal smoker for this same reason. I get them at least to a partial burn in the chimney first, and this releases that initial smoke pretty well.
> 
> Eric


I wonder if someone would comment on what Eric said as it relates to using the Minion method.  With this method the fire is constantly igniting new charcoal as the meat is cooking/smoking.  

Doug


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## panthermountian (Jan 1, 2013)

I agree that cold brickettes add a petroleum odor and taste to your meat as they light, this is due to the binders that are used in making the brickette ( that's my opinion ) but you must agree that when someone lights a charcoal grill down the street you can smell it a 1/2 block away!

Why not try the same method with natural lump charcoal, start your coals in a chimmney then add natural lump in the same fashion as above, you will get smoke,but it's going to be from the hardwood and not the binder of the brickette, and the hardwood charcoal will burn hotter & cleaner!  I'm just say'n


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 1, 2013)

tuntrep said:


> forluvofsmoke said:
> 
> 
> > As for the actual smoke from the charcoal, I find it's best to get the coals heated up (if not burning) before adding any meat to the smoke chamber. Cold briquettes give off a very strong (and rather foul, IMO) smoke when they first get hot. Once that initial smoke has passed, you're good to go. I don't like to add cold briqs to the fire box in a charcoal smoker for this same reason. I get them at least to a partial burn in the chimney first, and this releases that initial smoke pretty well.
> ...


Interesting observation, and deserving explanation, as well. While I was never very successful using the minion method, not due to using proper methods/technique, but due to not having air-tight construction of the fire box in my Snp horizontal, or Gourmet vertical, which would allow for optimum control of the burn rate, the few times I did attempt minion, I noticed an off odor and taste in the meat. I assumed it was from the constant ignition of cold charcoal briquettes, and when compared to smoking with a charcoal fire which I have added hot/burning coals to periodically, that off flavor and aroma disappeared.

For some (or many) who are successful with firing a smoker using the minion method, this odor and flavor may go unnoticed, as that's the method they have use for a long time, and it could just seem to be part of the normal flavor/aroma of the food when smoked. Or, a more likely probability, their method for assembly/building the fuel base and addition of burning coals to begin the minion may be so well orchestrated and developed for that particular smoker that the fire produced is very hot, but small enough to properly maintain chamber temps. In turn, this small and hot fire may be igniting the vapors/smoke from the nearby charcoal as it begins to heat up and burn, causing it's negative effect on flavor and aroma of the food to become so minimal that it isn't noticed at all. With the minion method, the fire is very close to unburned fuel, so the radiant heat from the fire will begin heating the fuel, and the close proximity of the fire to this fuel could engulf the fumes from the fuel and ignite them before they rise up high enough from the source to escape into the smoke chamber. Basically, the fumes are heated hot enough to transition from a visible smoke with an off-odor and taste though a chemical reaction similar to that which occurs with unburned fuel in your car's exhaust with a catalytic converter on your car's exhaust system...it reaches very high temperatures during normal operation, and in doing so, can convert certain toxins and unburned fuel vapors into something less harmful.

On the flip side, with charcoal added to propane or electric smokers in the location where smoke wood would be be used, the fuel (and smoke wood) is at a much greater distance from the heat/ignition source, so any fumes/smoke from the charcoal (or smoke wood) won't become ignited and burned nearly as easily, and will travel up into the smoke chamber in a more intact state, rather than becoming partially or fully burned before reaching that point.

So, how can smoke wood chunks added to a charcoal fire produce smoke, if this theory is correct? I place my smoke wood *near* the fire, not *in it*, as it will smoke more and last far longer than if added directly into the fuel-base or fire. If the smoke wood catches flame, it's done smoking shortly thereafter...just makes sense to me. With smoke woods added to the fuel base for minion method, how much do you add to get an acceptable amount of smoke to the food and dispersed throughout the fuel base in a significant amount to provide a relatively steady smoke for the intended duration? Probably 5-10 times more than if placed near the fire instead of in it.

Some questions to ponder...I don't have all the answers, only a few theories, based on personal experience and some thought on the subject. There is the seemingly never-ending list of variables which come into the equation as well, from ambient relative humidity and temp to burn temp of a particular species of hardwood lump vs a particular brand of charcoal briquette, not to mention the individual smoker and how the user set up the fire-base and controls the burn rate, smoker mods, etc, etc. Speaking of burn temps, those who have used both hardwood lump and briquettes know that lump burns hotter (much hotter), and this fact alone can give even better results with minion, I would imagine (just don't let that small, hot fire get out of hand with lump, or you won't cool it down easily). I never tried minion with lump, only briquette, but I now find myself wondering if that one factor could have given me far better results with fire control using the minion method, and, less off-odor/taste...I'm almost convinced now that it would have...hot enough fire to kill any off odors, which would be minimal anyway due to using charred wood instead of charred wood blended with charred coal, and held together with some obscure process involving chemicals, heat and water vapor...YUCK!!!

Anyway, hope that makes sense...
On a side note, in my younger years, fresh out of high school, I worked in the packaging dept at a charcoal briquette plant...mined our own coal, blended in hardwoods shipped in from back east...the whole nine yards. Care to guess how many brands of charcoal briquettes we packaged, all from the same batch runs of charred coal/hard wood back then? 99, in 5, 10 and 20lb bags (didn't have 6s or 8s, or, match-light in those days), including generic, store brands, and the commercially used 40lb bags for restaruants, along with the widely known brands such as Kingsford and Royal Oak...yes, 99...I read our packing bag list one day when the shift foreman forgot it hanging on the wall next to the switch-gear room...blew my mind, especially when I realized that not all brands came with the same price tag. That was back in 1982, and since then, different drum presses were used to get the "K" on the front and "slash" on the back of a Kingsford briquette, and a few other variations for other brands available now, but other than that...well, I think I know what _you're_ thinking...same basic thing, at least back then, with a different colored bag over it...one of the few exceptions to the rule "you get what you pay for". Now, sure, there are claims from some brands having a "natural" briquette, or whatever, and some may have theirs produced to certain proprietary standards while others use the same old processes and ingredients/materials that have been around since the briquette was invented...I guess it's up to us to decide what we want and what we're willing to pay to get it, after we find out what it is we're actually buying. Do compare your brands, though...you may be surprised what you find in the actual product, compared to something costing twice as much.
Eric


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## rdownergarage (Jan 1, 2013)

I think when it say's duel fuel. It means propane or natural gas? But i could be wrong?


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## rdownergarage (Jan 1, 2013)

I think when it say's duel fuel. It means propane or natural gas? But i could be wrong?


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## aland (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi Tony, I've been checking out MojoBricks site and I'm curious, looks like the minicubes  for grilling are $4.99 for 8oz. They say get the 2lb and save $3.00. Guess  the 2lb would be $20-$3= $17? There's not too much info on their site. How hard are they on the shipping? Might be costly shipping to western OK. Anyway, I am real curious about these cos I grill more than smoke lately. I have  the 6"x8" AMAZN pellet(and dust) smoker and the 18" tube smoker(which works well in the grill), but how long do the mini cubes burn or the larger cubes for low and slow smokes? Any info would be appreciated. And what kind of quantities do y'all buy for competition, if you don't mind me asking? You can e-mail me at: [email protected]

Thank you,

Alan D Hawkins(aland)


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## panthermountian (Jan 3, 2013)

Alan, if you go to the mojobrick web site they are doing a promotional right now 50% off your order and free shipping, I live in Little Rock, Arkansas and normal shipping is around $11.00  for competition I use the MoJoBrick which is the size of a brick and lasts up to 3-4 hrs, I have used the mini cubes and they will burn for about 30-45 minutes, keep in mind these produce clean smoke and not so much heat. I would reccomend calling Fred Grosse (president of MoJo BricksFire ) @ 773-398-1992 Tell him that Tony Lord / Panther Mountain from Little Rock AR said to call and he will awnser any questions you may have, As for the promo they are running, I would take advantage of it quickly as 50% off your purchase and free shipping is outstanding for this fine product, hope tis is helpfull


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