# MES TROUBLE



## tanglefoot (Apr 11, 2020)

Downright unhappy with my mes30 today. Fired it up to do up some baby backs and can't get the thing to stay on. It will start out ok, but after it gets up to temp it shuts down  it pops the ground fault outlet when the thermostat kicks in again. The outlet is fine. in fact, I plugged the GMG Dan'l Boone in to the same outlet to get the job done and it worked fine. (it's a 20amp dedicated outlet). I'm a meat smoker and not an electrician so i'm not sure where the problem is. I don't think it's the element as the thing fires up just fine to start with. On a side note, I just bought this smoker last year after having a mes30 for about 8-10 years before this one and smoked many, many meals without a glitch. When I brought this one home and unpacked it from the box I noticed how cheaply it was made. (my $0.02) Any ideas out there?


----------



## normanaj (Apr 12, 2020)

I am also not an electrician but I know this much,moisture very often can be the culprit directly or indirectly.

 There are several folks on here with intimate knowledge of MES electronics.Pretty sure one or all will chime in shortly.


----------



## fivetricks (Apr 12, 2020)

tallbm


----------



## chopsaw (Apr 12, 2020)

I've had this exact thing happen with my gen 1 mes 30 . It can be caused by moisture , and most times that would be the culprit .
However , another cause can be the resistance of the element itself . Low resistance lets the current flow faster than normal , and makes the GFCI thinks it's leaking to ground , tripping the breaker . That's why it takes a while for it to trip . The ohm reading on mine is 5 or less , should be around 18 .


----------



## Watson (Apr 13, 2020)

Sounds like a short in the heating element once it reaches temp.
If the controller itself is working, and it seems it is, then that's all that's left.  
Others will know more than me, but if that was my unit, I would start looking at the heating element.


----------



## Winterrider (Apr 13, 2020)

Your Daniel Boone is only operating a fan, not a heating element.
Connections to element would be my first check.


----------



## tallbm (Apr 15, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Downright unhappy with my mes30 today. Fired it up to do up some baby backs and can't get the thing to stay on. It will start out ok, but after it gets up to temp it shuts down  it pops the ground fault outlet when the thermostat kicks in again. The outlet is fine. in fact, I plugged the GMG Dan'l Boone in to the same outlet to get the job done and it worked fine. (it's a 20amp dedicated outlet). I'm a meat smoker and not an electrician so i'm not sure where the problem is. I don't think it's the element as the thing fires up just fine to start with. On a side note, I just bought this smoker last year after having a mes30 for about 8-10 years before this one and smoked many, many meals without a glitch. When I brought this one home and unpacked it from the box I noticed how cheaply it was made. (my $0.02) Any ideas out there?



Hi there and welcome!

This could be a few things.  The most problematic area of the MES are the cheap electrical connectors that are used.  You should have a panel on the back at the bottom that leads to the heating element.  Check and see if the connectors are corroding away  and if so get some hi-temp stainless steel connectors like the following and replace the rotting ones (exact fit for the mes):

The other area to check is the safety rollout limit switch.  I believe you have a newer model so there should be a panel on the back of the MES midway up somewhere maybe.  Get into that panel and see if the connectors have corroded off the switch OR if that switch has burned up (i've had like 5 switches burn up on me).  If this is the case you can apply the same connectors above as the fix.
If the switch is burned up you can cut the wire from the switch, strip the ends, and wire nut them together to get by.  If you want to replace the switch then get these EXACT ones, don't by anothing but these, its a 5 pack and it is good to have backups:

Thing to know about those switches.  If you wiggle, bend, or move the tabs in any way at the point where they connect to the back of the switch, the switch WILL burn down after some time.  That is also why it is good to have a few on hand hahaha.... i learned this the hard way.

If these suggestions dont find the problem then I think an ohms test on your heating element using a $7 multimeter will let you know if your element is messing up.
After that you may have a bad wire grounding situation somewhere OR your controller is screwing you over.

Like 90% of the people in your situation i bet you find a rotting connector at the element or the safety switch.

Check and let us know what you find! :)


----------



## barryvabeach (Apr 15, 2020)

Mine tripped after it had been heating a short time.   Replaced the element, works fine.


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 15, 2020)

barryvabeach said:


> Mine tripped after it had been heating a short time.   Replaced the element, works fine.





tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> This could be a few things.  The most problematic area of the MES are the cheap electrical connectors that are used.  You should have a panel on the back at the bottom that leads to the heating element.  Check and see if the connectors are corroding away  and if so get some hi-temp stainless steel connectors like the following and replace the rotting ones (exact fit for the mes):
> 
> ...


Thank all of you guys for the pointers. I'll check it out and be in touch!! Much appreciated!


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 18, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Thank all of you guys for the pointers. I'll check it out and be in touch!! Much appreciated!





tanglefoot said:


> Thank all of you guys for the pointers. I'll check it out and be in touch!! Much appreciated!


OK. Here's what I did today. Fired it up, set at 220. It got up to 118 when it tripped the ground gfci.
Reset it and it worked like a charm for about 1.5 hours. It would heat up to temp just fine and restart when the temp got down to 218. Then the temp shot way up for some reason. ( I was watching it spike and thinking when this hits 260-270 i'm going to pull the plug. It got up to 248 and the gfci tripped. Let it cool, reset, and tried again.


----------



## BuckeyeSteve (Apr 18, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> I've had this exact thing happen with my gen 1 mes 30 . It can be caused by moisture , and most times that would be the culprit .
> However , another cause can be the resistance of the element itself . Low resistance lets the current flow faster than normal , and makes the GFCI thinks it's leaking to ground , tripping the breaker . That's why it takes a while for it to trip . The ohm reading on mine is 5 or less , should be around 18 .


But shouldn't it still have the same current on the neutral?  I was under the impression that a GFCI compares the current going out and the current returning on the neutral.  It sounds like he has current leaking somewhere.


----------



## chopsaw (Apr 19, 2020)

BuckeyeSteve said:


> But shouldn't it still have the same current on the neutral?  I was under the impression that a GFCI compares the current going out and the current returning on the neutral.  It sounds like he has current leaking somewhere.


The lack of resistance in the heating element tricks the GFCI into thinking there is a current leak . As you said , current going out and returning is faster than expected . 
I'm not saying this is his problem , but it does happen . I would be interested to know the ohm reading on his element .


----------



## Bearcarver (Apr 19, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> This could be a few things.  The most problematic area of the MES are the cheap electrical connectors that are used.  You should have a panel on the back at the bottom that leads to the heating element.  Check and see if the connectors are corroding away  and if so get some hi-temp stainless steel connectors like the following and replace the rotting ones (exact fit for the mes):
> 
> ...




What 

 tallbm
  said,
^^^Going by what MES are well known for, the above would be my first checks.^^^

Bear


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 19, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> The lack of resistance in the heating element tricks the GFCI into thinking there is a current leak . As you said , current going out and returning is faster than expected .
> I'm not saying this is his problem , but it does happen . I would be interested to know the ohm reading on his element .


Just checked it with multimeter. Comes in at17.5 ohms. also the leads look pristine. (like I said, this unit is only 1yr old.) If were to guess, I'd say the issue is with the control panel but could that trip the gfci?


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 19, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> This could be a few things.  The most problematic area of the MES are the cheap electrical connectors that are used.  You should have a panel on the back at the bottom that leads to the heating element.  Check and see if the connectors are corroding away  and if so get some hi-temp stainless steel connectors like the following and replace the rotting ones (exact fit for the mes):
> 
> ...


The only access panel on the back is for the element. I must have to remove the whole back panel to access that switch?


----------



## chopsaw (Apr 19, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Just checked it with multimeter. Comes in at17.5 ohms. also the leads look pristine. (like I said, this unit is only 1yr old.) If were to guess, I'd say the issue is with the control panel but could that trip the gfci?


Well that's good , right where it should be . 
You should also check between one side of the element and the case / body . Should be zero . If it shows a number you have current leaking from the element to the case . Un plug the smoker , remove the wires to the element , then do the check . If it checks good , then you have ruled out the basic stuff and can move on from there .


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 19, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Well that's good , right where it should be .
> You should also check between one side of the element and the case / body . Should be zero . If it shows a number you have current leaking from the element to the case . Un plug the smoker , remove the wires to the element , then do the check . If it checks good , then you have ruled out the basic stuff and can move on from there .


Thank you. Just checked that. No reading.


----------



## tallbm (Apr 19, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> The only access panel on the back is for the element. I must have to remove the whole back panel to access that switch?


Unfortunately you will have to remove the back to get to your rollout limit switch.  
Hopefully its the riveted back and not the fitted one.  If riveted then drill them out and fasten back with self taping sheet metal screws (Hex head are the best, like 3/4 inch long).

If u remove the back then it is useful to cut and make a panel to get to it in the future.  I had to do this with my MES.  I just cut the hole big enough to work in and got a piece of thin sheet metal and screwed it in over the whole I but and fastened with self taping sheet metal screws after drilling pilot holes. Easy peasy.


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 19, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Unfortunately you will have to remove the back to get to your rollout limit switch.  If u remove the back then it is useful to cut and make a panel to get to it in the future.  I had to do this with my MES.  I just cut the hole big enough to work in and got a piece of thin sheet metal and screwed it in over the whole I but and fastened with self taping sheet metal screws after drilling pilot holes. Easy peasy.


Yes, I was just looking at that. The blame thing is riveted on. Not a huge deal, but why can't those nice chinese folks use screw guns like the rest of the dadgum world. Like i said, not a big deal, but a pain in the covid. I'll work on that after work tomorrow (hopefully) and let you know what I find. Thank all of you fellers for your help.


----------



## Bearcarver (Apr 20, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> The only access panel on the back is for the element. I must have to remove the whole back panel to access that switch?




If it's riveted, like most are, just drill them out & then when done, replace the rivets with self tappers.
OOOPS--On Edit---I see Tallbm already said that.

Bear


----------



## chopsaw (Apr 20, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> If it's riveted, like most are, just drill them out & then when done, replace the rivets with self tappers.
> OOOPS--On Edit---I see Tallbm already said that.


Never hurts to get some back up . 
If you get the 9/16 or 1/2 " wafer head self tappers , use the screw to drill the head of the rivet  . Using the screw to drill you don't have to worry about the size of the hole , matching a drill bit to the screws .


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 20, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Yes, I was just looking at that. The blame thing is riveted on. Not a huge deal, but why can't those nice chinese folks use screw guns like the rest of the dadgum world. Like i said, not a big deal, but a pain in the covid. I'll work on that after work tomorrow (hopefully) and let you know what I find. Thank all of you fellers for your help.


I tried to fire it up just a while ago and there was a strange clicking sound that seemed to be coming from the control panel. What the dickens???


----------



## tallbm (Apr 20, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Never hurts to get some back up .
> If you get the 9/16 or 1/2 " wafer head self tappers , use the screw to drill the head of the rivet  . Using the screw to drill you don't have to worry about the size of the hole , matching a drill bit to the screws .



Hahaha man I so wish I would have thought of that! 
I bow down to your efficiency my friend :D


----------



## tallbm (Apr 20, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> I tried to fire it up just a while ago and there was a strange clicking sound that seemed to be coming from the control panel. What the dickens???



That's a new one to me.
Did it run at all?
Did you change anything in your investigation of the connections?


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 20, 2020)

tallbm said:


> That's a new one to me.
> Did it run at all?
> Did you change anything in your investigation of the connections?


After I did that I drilled out the rivets and removed the back panel to expose the temp switch. Can't tell if it's good or not, but again the connections were new, and tight, so nothing jumped out at me. How would I tell if it needs replacing? The more I investigate, the more I'm thinking it's the control panel. But why would that trip the gfci?


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 20, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> After I did that I drilled out the rivets and removed the back panel to expose the temp switch. Can't tell if it's good or not, but again the connections were new, and tight, so nothing jumped out at me. How would I tell if it needs replacing? The more I investigate, the more I'm thinking it's the control panel. But why would that trip the gfci?


Sorry, I didn't answer your question. No it did not run, so I unplugged it, cussed at it, and started removing the back panel.


----------



## tallbm (Apr 20, 2020)

If all the connections look good then the next major problematic part of the MES is the controller.
There isn't troubleshooting to do with it.  It either works properly,  does not work properly (seems like your case), or does not work at all.

You can contact them and if within warranty they usually send out another panel no problem... other than the wait.

Now if they fall through on you or you simply want to join the big boys you say to hell with the MES controller and do a simple rewire and use a different controller like the an Auber PID controller (PID = Proportional Integral Derivative).  It will keep your MES within about 2-3 degrees of your set point and turns it into a smoker that outperforms the stock MES no contest.

You lose the ability to burn wood chips but all us MES owners basically use the A-Maze-N Pellet Smoker tray (AMNPS) and pellets anyhow so it has never been an issue since we upgraded smoke generation that way.

Here is a good post on the simple rewire of the MES to be ready to work with an Auber PID Controller:





						MES Rewire Simple Guide - No Back Removal Needed!!!
					

Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.  Disclaimer:  When messing with electrical equipment...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				




Let us know how u want to proceed and we can keep helping u :)


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 20, 2020)

tallbm said:


> If all the connections look good then the next major problematic part of the MES is the controller.
> There isn't troubleshooting to do with it.  It either works properly,  does not work properly (seems like your case), or does not work at all.
> 
> You can contact them and if within warranty they usually send out another panel no problem... other than the wait.
> ...


P


tallbm said:


> If all the connections look good then the next major problematic part of the MES is the controller.
> There isn't troubleshooting to do with it.  It either works properly,  does not work properly (seems like your case), or does not work at all.
> 
> You can contact them and if within warranty they usually send out another panel no problem... other than the wait.
> ...


 Thanks, tallbm, and everyone else for your input. I'll consider the PID thing. I already have an AMNPS. (comes in handy for long smokes!!). Maybe after all these years it's time for an upgrade and join the "big boys"!!!!! Thanks again to all.


----------



## Bearcarver (Apr 21, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Sorry, I didn't answer your question. No it did not run, *so I unplugged it, cussed at it, *and started removing the back panel.




Excellent!!!
Those are my first steps too!!

Bear


----------



## tallbm (Apr 21, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> P
> Thanks, tallbm, and everyone else for your input. I'll consider the PID thing. I already have an AMNPS. (comes in handy for long smokes!!). Maybe after all these years it's time for an upgrade and join the "big boys"!!!!! Thanks again to all.



You know if the connections are bad because they will easily look all burnt up, or if u wiggle on them or try to remove them they simply break apart cause of the corrosion.

If yours were good to go then my money is on major failure point #2 which is the controller.
An Auber PID might run you $150 BUT u gotta think of it like buying a way better version of the MES and now with your knowledge about the connectors, the back setup to come off/on, and with a PID you can keep that same MES running short through anything short of being hit by car :D

People are really amazed at how awesome the smoker functions with a PID controller.  Its like having a brand new better MES.  To the point where from now on if I need an MES I'm buying a used $40-50 one off craigslist/facebook to rewire and hook a PID to because it will beat the crap out of a brand new MES :)


----------



## tanglefoot (Apr 21, 2020)

tallbm said:


> You know if the connections are bad because they will easily look all burnt up, or if u wiggle on them or try to remove them they simply break apart cause of the corrosion.
> 
> If yours were good to go then my money is on major failure point #2 which is the controller.
> An Auber PID might run you $150 BUT u gotta think of it like buying a way better version of the MES and now with your knowledge about the connectors, the back setup to come off/on, and with a PID you can keep that same MES running short through anything short of being hit by car :D
> ...


You about got me sold on the idea. I was just thinkin'.....might be a good way to put that kung flu cash to work!!!! Thanks again.


----------



## chopsaw (Apr 21, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> You about got me sold on the idea. I was just thinkin'.....might be a good way to put that kung flu cash to work!!!! Thanks again.


For an investment of less than 200 bucks , you get an awesome set up . Hard to believe the difference until you do it . Keep us posted .


----------



## tallbm (Apr 21, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> You about got me sold on the idea. I was just thinkin'.....might be a good way to put that kung flu cash to work!!!! Thanks again.



Hahaha let us know what you decide.  If you think you are going to buy an Auber PID and if your MES is basically broken as is you can do the simple rewire and then plug into the wall and see if the element heats up.  If so then you know the controller or the circuit board went bad on you AND you know you can pull the trigger for an Auber PID since it is ready for one and it is heating up :)



chopsaw said:


> For an investment of less than 200 bucks , you get an awesome set up . Hard to believe the difference until you do it . Keep us posted .



I agree it is very hard to believe until you do it AND it's so funny how instantly all the worry melts away when it just works after making the switch hahaha.


----------

