# A pig and a cow



## phathead69 (Jan 19, 2019)

Planning on cold smoking a pork loin roast about 2.5 thick 2 to 3 pound and a brisket flat in the 2 thick and 4 to 5 pound range. The plan is to sous vide them. The pork served with side dish. The brisket I'll put in fridge to make a stew out of later this week.
 What times and temps should I do these at? 
Together or seperate?.


----------



## SonnyE (Jan 19, 2019)

My book has me doing a Pork Loin at 149 for 6 hours, tonight. (For Pork Roast)
I've done other Pork Loins at 160 for up to 9 hours. Then I cooled it, cubed it, and made pork chili with it the next day.
But I'm Loving this Sous Vide thing. It lets me run completely crazy and not burn anything.

I like my Pork well done. But even at 9 hours @160, the pork loin for my black bean chili was still pink inside.
Not uncooked at all, just pinkish.

Sorry, No idea about the Brisket, never done one.


----------



## phathead69 (Jan 19, 2019)

Sonny thanks. I had read 147 as a good temp .


----------



## Hawging It (Jan 19, 2019)

Amazing the stuff you can learn here!


----------



## gnatboy911 (Jan 21, 2019)

I've done pork loin at 145/4 and it was awesome. I've seen where people do it at 135/140 also. I think anywhere from 4hrs to 9 or 10 would be fine. I wouldn't go much longer than that.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 21, 2019)

Folks, morning...  use Baldwins tables to be safe...  Need help ??   I'm here...      Dave

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html 

..


----------



## gnatboy911 (Jan 21, 2019)

daveomak said:


> Folks, morning...  use Baldwins tables to be safe...  Need help ??   I'm here...      Dave
> 
> http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html
> 
> ..


Dave, I notice you post a lot regarding food safety. I'm just curious if that was a career of yours, or just a passion to help people not get sick from food.  Thanks for all the interesting info/articles you post.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 21, 2019)

I was at Children's Hospital in Seattle during the Jack in the Box e coli outbreak and watched those sick children and their parents suffering....
There's no reason for children or anyone to get food poisoning if some common sense is applied...
My grandson was in  Children's, for a different reason other than e coli, for 30 days...
I saw kids getting treated for cancer and a myriad of afflictions...
If you want a dose or reality, visit a Children's Hospital.....


----------



## phathead69 (Jan 21, 2019)

daveomak said:


> Folks, morning...  use Baldwins tables to be safe...  Need help ??   I'm here...      Dave
> ..


I'm posting some screen shots that's a little confusing.






Pretty clear on time or temp but limited to
 2 3/4 thick. Does length or width come I to play?





Seems pretty like pork on size limits pretty clear on temp and time.

Brisket doesn't really mention size and lots more options on time and temps. Is assumed briskets don't exceed the thickness guid lines


----------



## daveomak (Jan 21, 2019)

What's confusing ???   Don't use pork recipes for beef and beef recipes for pork....


----------



## phathead69 (Jan 22, 2019)

You know Dave you seem to be a warehouse of knowledge. I don't understand how you post "im here to help" but I get a smart azz 


daveomak said:


> What's confusing ???   Don't use pork recipes for beef and beef recipes for pork....


I thought I was clear and I'm not mixing receipes only trying to clarify about thickness mentioned or not mentioned and just because you have an extensive background on this doesn't mean everyone does. I thought I was clear that it is confusing that roast very much mentions thickness not to exceed but brisket doesn't mention it. Have a good day.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 22, 2019)

I'm sorry and apologize I didn't get it....  It wasn't clear to me what your question was...  
Thickness and fat content are the deciding factors when cooking meats in a sous vide....
AND the shape of the meat cut has a lot to do with cooking time...  

That being said, Baldwin has noted, in his charts several factors are combined when determining the cooking times...
Worst case scenarios are considered and are "added in" to the cooking times....  This simplifies the cooking process by having fewer variables...  

I do not know how many variables there are, that would have had to been considered...  Those variables would have been evident to Baldwin, during his development of the tables..

Below are "HEATING TIME" charts from different starting temperatures... to 1 or 2 degrees below the set temp... 
From looking at Baldwins stuff, looks like the last few degrees takes a long time to achieve...  So, it would appear to get meats to temp faster, make your set point 3 or 4 degrees higher than the final temperature you are wanting.. if the final temp is not that critical to you....  
It's "my understanding"...  these charts are used for food that previously has been pasteurized or reheating food for consumption, if you are healthy and your immune system is not compromised...  Baldwin is not clear on this, that I have found...










Cooking time for poultry, to me, FAT is an example of one variable that contributes to pasteurization time...   
Evidently, the heat transfer through fat is a big deal by looking at the Gov't poultry pasteurization table...   
Baldwin took the time to compute the worst case scenario in his poultry table ...
How you would determine the fat content of poultry is beyond me...  

.......Baldwin's table.......






........Gov't poultry pasteurization table......






Cooking meats by Baldwin's tables......
It appears Baldwin has used the "worst case" scenario in these tables to include "the shape of the meat cut" as he doesn't differentiate "Slab, Cylinder or Sphere".....  making the cooking process easier to determine....







Now, let me address the recipes you mentioned in your post #11......

Baldwin's tables above are minimum times and temperatures to achieve pasteurization of specific meat thickness, shape and fat... Those tables achieve perfectly safe cuts of meat to eat, well below the final temperatures the USDA notes in some of it's publications... You end up  with a moist cut of meat because you haven't cooked it to death... 

The recipes you noted are cooked at much higher temperatures for many hours or days, exceeding the pasteurization time Baldwin has noted..  

Those specific recipes you noted, go WAY beyond pasteurization and are used for meat tenderness to break down collagen and meat fibers etc...  If you notice the temperatures they are cooked at, they exceed the pasteurization tables temperatures..

Again, I apologize for my ignorance and hope this covers your concerns...  
I am here to help...   If I can further clarify anything I may have missed................

Dave

..


----------



## dr k (Jan 22, 2019)

With the heating tables you select the shape (slab, sphere or oval) and go by the thickness without needing the length and width. I use the pasteurizing tables that don't mention shape just thickness but measure the thickest part to get the duration at a given bath temp. Unless you make a large custom vessel for SV stick circulators most are limited in size depending on the wattage and recomendations in the instructions on volume of water the device can handle.  So I  would have to separate the flat from the point and do them separately (measure thickness of the flat in its own bag and do the point at its thickness in its own bag because I can't accommodate a whole packer without a plastic cooler mod.) I get the pieces in one of the three shapes and use the pasteurizing tables on thickness. No length or width.  With a pork loin being an oval cross cut shape I'd take the thickest cross cut in mm to get the duration.


----------



## dr k (Jan 22, 2019)

Mostly tender cuts go by thickness but since a monster hunk of meat that is tough that takes 1-2"days to get tender can get up to within 1° of the water bath temp in a few hours and just needs to hold so the recipe leaps to many hours or days than specific thickness.


----------

