# Curing Brine Pop Quiz.......



## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

:biggrin:

Can you spot the error in the following table?








The table is from the following link.......
http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/hams-other-meats/hams

Further reference....
http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing/making-brine

~Martin :wink:


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## davidhef88 (Oct 1, 2012)

Don't you only need 1tbsp. Of cure #1 per gallon. I haven't done any curing yet, but have done some reading and that seems high.  


David


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## JckDanls 07 (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm gonna say that sounds like a lot of salt


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

Davidhef88 said:


> Don't you only need 1tbsp. Of cure #1 per gallon. I haven't done any curing yet, but have done some reading and that seems high.
> David



The cure amount is correct in the context of the example given, a 10% pump at no more than 200 ppm nitrite.

_"ppm = lb. nitrite x % pick-up x 1,000,000/lb. pickle

Without weighing the meat, the only way to determine % pick-up of cured meat is by an educated guess based on previous experience. It is generally accepted that immersion cured hams (60° SAL) pick-up about 4% weight. If we add 4.2 ounces (120 g) of Cure #1 to 1 gallon of brine, the solution will contain 1973 ppm of sodium nitrite. At first sight it may seem that there is an excessive amount of nitrite in water. The answer is that only a small percentage will be absorbed by meat during the immersion process. At 4% pick-up the ham will absorb 79 ppm which will be just enough for any meaningful curing. At 10% pump (needle pumping) the same ham will contain 197 ppm of sodium nitrite which is in compliance with the government standard of 200 ppm. Pumping more than 10% or increasing the amount of cure in the solution will of course cross the limit."_


~Martin


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## fpnmf (Oct 1, 2012)

Too much cure...

  The maximum concentration allowed safely is 3.84 ounces per 1 gallon of brine (24 lbs.per 100 gallons: 16 oz. x 24 = 384 ounces, 1/100th is 3.84 ounces).

  What did I win???


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

Nope, the cure amount is correct and within safe limits, see above.


~Martin


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

Here are the numbers for checking to see if the cure amount is acceptable in the context in question......

ppm nitrite = (120g cure #1 X 6.25% nitrite) X 10% X 1,000,000 ÷ 3,800g water

120 X .0625= 7.5g nitrite

7.5 X .10 = 0.75

.75 X 1,000,000 = 750000

750000 ÷ 3800 = *197.36 ppm* nitrite, which is within the safe limit of 200 ppm for an immersion cure.







~Martin


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## jalan43 (Oct 1, 2012)

Not enough sugar.


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

The sugar amount is trivial, it can be whatever level you wish, including none at all.

~Martin


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## daveomak (Oct 1, 2012)

Martin.... Is this rate safe for doing bacon..... I thought bacon was 120 Ppm max nitrite for immersion and pumped cured.....  Dave


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

DaveOmak said:


> Martin.... Is this rate safe for doing bacon..... I thought bacon was 120 Ppm max nitrite for immersion and pumped cured.....  Dave



No, 200ppm nitrite is not correct or safe for bacon, they're curing a ham in the example.


~Martin


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## roller (Oct 1, 2012)

The water amount is wrong...Ha !


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

Roller said:


> The water amount is wrong...Ha !



Nice try!

:biggrin:

~Martin


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

Hint: JckDanls 07 is on the right track, but there's a very specific and fundamental brine error.


~Martin


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## s2k9k (Oct 1, 2012)

Well if it's not the water and not the cure and the sugar doesn't matter then it has to be the salt but how can the salt make it not safe? I checked all the conversions and they are correct.

Is one of the words misspelled, I didn't check that!


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

S2K9K said:


> Well if it's not the water and not the cure and the sugar doesn't matter then it has to be the salt but how can the salt make it not safe? I checked all the conversions and they are correct.
> Is one of the words misspelled, I didn't check that!




Nope, all the spelling looks correct.
It's not a trivial error, it's a technical error.
And yes, it does have something to do with the salt.

~Martin


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## JckDanls 07 (Oct 1, 2012)

should be a capitol S on Salt ?..   hell..  I dunno...:biggrin:


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

JckDanls 07 said:


> should be a capitol S on Salt ?..   hell..  I dunno...:biggrin:



:biggrin:


~Martin


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## daveomak (Oct 1, 2012)

When the salt was added, it did not take into account the salt in the cure....  

4.2 oz cure = 3.9 oz salt

60 deg brine needs 21.7 oz salt + 4.2 oz cure (3.9 oz salt) to equal 25.6 oz salt in the brine


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 1, 2012)

DaveOmak said:


> When the salt was added, it did not take into account the salt in the cure....
> 
> 4.2 oz cure = 3.9 oz salt



And the crowd cheers!!!!!! LOL

That's correct!!! :biggrin:

Sure ain't no 60 degree brine, it's about 68 degree!!!
Almost 4 ounces of salt can make a big difference in a gallon of water!



~Martin


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## daveomak (Oct 2, 2012)

And there you have it..... *Martin found 1 more error someone printed on the web as fact...*. 

Now for the million dollar question....  Do you proof read all this methods of does your brain just calculate the real numbers as you skim over them ???

HINT.... do not say proof read.... The folks in white coats will be coming to get you....  If you say "my brain just sees stuff and I know it's wrong".....  I guess we will call you "RainMan".... Pick your poison Martin.....


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't know, it just stuck out like a sore thumb...might be my OCD and ADD...LOL
Not to pick on those guys, but I've noticed other errors on there as well.
Oh well, we all make mistakes, it's a part of life!!! :biggrin:


~Martin


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## roller (Oct 2, 2012)

I knew it was the water all along !!!!!


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## pops6927 (Oct 3, 2012)

I took it to the source to verify your calculations, writing them and double checking and proving you are absolutely correct and they will correct their statement!  Great Job, Martin!



Pops Fassett  [color= rgb(85, 85, 85)][email protected][/color]

Oct 2 (1 day ago)









  

[color= rgb(119, 119, 119)]to admin[/color]

 

Hi!  I am a Supermoderator on http://www.smokingmeatforums.com.
We have a poster on the board that has exception to your post of curing:  http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/128364/curing-brine-pop-quiz

I am not sure if the answer given is right or not.  If possible, could you clarify if the amount of salt is correct, as Cure #1 is 93.75% salt.  Was that added in to your calculation?  Or are there other factors not mentioned that makes your figures correct and his, not?  Just trying to clarify and give your, and our, readers the correct information!  Thank you so much!

-- 
Pops §§

"Smoking is Great... when it's Meats!"




John Novak

12:48 PM (8 hours ago)









  

[color= rgb(119, 119, 119)]to me[/color]

 

Hi George,
You people are very good and you are right. The salt in Cure # 1 was not accounted for.

Cure #1, 4.2 oz (120 g)

and it contains 93.75% of salt

120 x 0.9375 = 112 g

and the total salt was 812 g which correspond to 68 degrees SAL.

This amount is subtracted from the original amount od salt:

720 - 112 = 608 g

This is how much common salt is added.

The corrected total amount of salt is 720 g (112 g of salt in Cure #1 accounted for) which corresponds to 1.58 lbs and 60 degrees SAL.

We are going to correct the table.

Thank you very much.

Regards,

John Novak


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 3, 2012)

Thanks, Pops!!!


~Martin


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 3, 2012)

FWIW,
I was reading through that site more tonight and each of the following recipes has an error or two.

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-recipes/pork-loin-sausage
http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-recipes/ham-sausage
http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-recipes/salami-krakowskie

~Martin


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## diggingdogfarm (Oct 4, 2012)

The pork loin sausage is missing cure#1 in the ingredients.
The ham sausage recipe is missing the cure#1 altogether.
In the salami krakowskie recipe the cure#1 listed in the ingredients should be cure#2 and the smoking directions are missing.



~Martin


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## smokinhusker (Oct 4, 2012)

Dang Martin, you're good! I can do the same thing with misspelled works just by skimming over an article.


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## s2k9k (Oct 4, 2012)

SmokinHusker said:


> Dang Martin, you're good! I can do the same thing with misspelled *works *just by skimming over an article.


I'm good at that too!


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## smokinhusker (Oct 4, 2012)

S2K9K said:


> SmokinHusker said:
> 
> 
> > Dang Martin, you're good! I can do the same thing with misspelled *works *just by skimming over an article.
> ...


Sometimes it's a curse!


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## steelyonfly (Jan 9, 2013)

DiggingDogFarm,

This was a good test.  I have a less technical question (I think it is) for you (and certainly anyone else that wishes to chime in) about a general wet brine solution.  Is there a general formula or ratio to use of salt to water that will result in a good infusion of the salt into the meat.  I am wondering specifically if the salt to water content must be of a certain amount/percentage/ratio before the salt will penetrate the meat.  I am assuming that any adjunct flavoring, such as wine, sugar and spices will follow the salt.  As a brine is to supplement the end product's flavor and moisture it probably depend upon the meat being brined and the time allowed for the brining.  Personally, I try to brine chix and turks overnight, so this would be my main use of a wet brine.  I dry brine my salmon, but if you have any thoughts on dry brining ratios that would be great, too.  Thanks.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jan 10, 2013)

Welcome to SMF!

Any amount of salt is going to seek equilibrium with the unsalted meat.
The greater the concentration of salt, the faster the process.
Some think that salt does help carry things into the meat, some things penetrate better than others.
It's possible to take advantage of the equilibrium principle to make curing almost totally failproof.
Below is a definition I worked out for equilibrium brining.
BTW, I also like to dry brine fish.

*"Equilibrium brining is a method of brining that makes it impossible to over-salt or over-cure meat when using a reasonable percentage of salt and the proper amount of cure. In equilibrium brining the submerged meat and the cover brine (or cover brine and injected brine, in larger pieces of meat) act as a single system and are considered a single unit when calculating salt, sugar and cure amounts. Over time, the ingredients in the brine migrate into the meat until levels in the meat tissue and in the brine are balanced via osmosis and diffusion. Therefore, the calculation for ingoing salt, sugar and cure is based on the weight of the meat plus the weight of the water or other liquid used in the brine."*

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124590/universal-cure-calculator

HTH


~Martin


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## steelyonfly (Jan 10, 2013)

Wonderful.  Thanks a bunch.

Ken.


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## jimdepo (Jan 31, 2013)

I knew that.


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