# Advice & Critique Please



## ChrisJoll (Apr 7, 2019)

Good day all,

My name is Chris. I live in Canada and have a Bradley Original 4-rack electric smoker. I’ve got 5-6 smokes under my belt - new to bbq/smoking all-together.

Yesterday, I tried smoking a 6# brisket flat, following Jeff’s Garlic & Onion recipe. As well, I tried doing 321 Ribs, as following Jeff’s recipe. I also threw in some chicken wings.

I followed the brisket recipe to the “t”, but I also injected the meat the night prior. The brisket cooked for 9.5 hours and reached an internal temperature of 198* However after letting it rest for 30 mins, and upon cutting, it was tough. It cooked at a temp around 200* From what I have read, this should have been smoked longer? Your thoughts please ...

The ribs were the same outcome. Followed the recipe to the “t” and when they were at 6 hours, pulled them out and the meat could be pulled from the bone, but it wasn’t juicy and tender. Again, I am guessing time too short here? Your thoughts ...

The wings turned out fine, except I’ve noticed after smoking for 2 hours the skin is a bit tough, any way to prevent this? Spritzing possibly?

Thank for your time and expertise in advance!

- Chris


----------



## mike243 (Apr 7, 2019)

Sounds like under cooked, wrapped in foil or butcher paper will help steam/tenderize the outside


----------



## Inscrutable (Apr 7, 2019)

Second opinion? Alright, you’re ugly too 
Sorry ... too many old movie or old stand-up references.

I had a Bradley ... will never get skin bite right on one of those.  Just can’t get hot enough.

Sounds like you have good temp sensor for meat .. are you monitoring ‘air’ temp also?


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 7, 2019)

Yes, was watching thermometer on smoker itself. I pre-heated to 225* and after I put meat in it was at 200*


----------



## Inscrutable (Apr 7, 2019)

All built-in thermometers are notoriously inaccurate. Invest in a good temp probe. I’ve had and trust a ThermoPro TP-08 and they are a sponsor here I believe.


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 7, 2019)

Ahhh, ok didn’t know that. Will invest in one for sure!

With regards to wrapping in foil, I presume this is towards the brisket. At what point do you wrap? The outside of the brisket was perfect, it was the inside, primarily the thicker side.


----------



## pineywoods (Apr 7, 2019)

Actually 3-2-1 ribs means cook them on the rack for 3 hours then put them in foil when you put them in the foil add a little liquid maybe apple juice or dr pepper, or personally I apply some honey and squeeze butter after applying the liquid seal the foil tight and back into the smoker for 2 hours then carefully unwrap them and back onto the grate. I say carefully because they are going to want to fall apart. After placing them back in the smoker smoke 1 more hour. If you want to add bbq sauce to them do it the last 1/2 hour because most bbq sauces have a lot of sugar in them and burn easy putting it on late will help avoid it burning.

I inject the brisket the night before. Smoke it to about 160 then either put it in a disposable aluminum pan with some of whatever you used as an injection or wrap in foil with the injection liquid. Instead of cooking to a certain temperature when it reaches 195 start checking it every 5-10 degrees with a toothpick when the toothpick slides in easy the brisket is done. I have had briskets finish at 198 and I've had them finish at 213 each one is different.

If smoking at anything less than 275-300 which in my opinion is to high for anything except poultry the skin is going to come out like rubber. If you want crispy skin either have the oven preheated on broil or have the grill fired up and hot or have some cooking oil heated to 350 then put poultry into whatever device you choose for a couple minutes to crisp the skin.

Never trust the thermometer that comes on a smoker they can be and often are way off I've heard of them being 75 degrees off before. When you buy a thermometer test it by putting a pot of water on the stove and bringing it to a boil then carefully like with a gloved hand place the probe into the water and see what it reads then you know if it's right or how far off it is. If your smoker thermometer will come off easily you can check it the same way.

Good luck and if you have other questions just ask


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 7, 2019)

pineywoods said:


> Actually 3-2-1 ribs means cook them on the rack for 3 hours then put them in foil when you put them in the foil add a little liquid maybe apple juice or dr pepper, or personally I apply some honey and squeeze butter after applying the liquid seal the foil tight and back into the smoker for 2 hours then carefully unwrap them and back onto the grate. I say carefully because they are going to want to fall apart. After placing them back in the smoker smoke 1 more hour. If you want to add bbq sauce to them do it the last 1/2 hour because most bbq sauces have a lot of sugar in them and burn easy putting it on late will help avoid it burning.
> 
> I inject the brisket the night before. Smoke it to about 160 then either put it in a disposable aluminum pan with some of whatever you used as an injection or wrap in foil with the injection liquid. Instead of cooking to a certain temperature when it reaches 195 start checking it every 5-10 degrees with a toothpick when the toothpick slides in easy the brisket is done. I have had briskets finish at 198 and I've had them finish at 213 each one is different.
> 
> ...



I followed that method for the ribs and they definitely weren’t falling apart... they were wrapped, I wouldn’t say tightly though.

I think so far, if I’m understanding this right, the ribs and brisket were underdone, either due to timing, but likely too low of temperature...??


----------



## pineywoods (Apr 7, 2019)

Most likely the temperature gauge is off and it was all under cooked

Adding the liquid when foiling and sealing tight allows it to start braising faster. 3-2-1 ribs done at 225 degree smoker temp will be fall off the bone. I suggest following the recipe a couple times then adjust times to your liking


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 7, 2019)

Got it! Thank you.
I’m going to test out the ambient temperature with another thermometer and compare. I’ll report back with the results.

Would, or does, the amount of meat within the smoker change cooking times? 

Also, would the placement of the meat in the rack (either low near heat source or higher up) presumably be different? Is there methods to reducing this difference when cooking multiple items?


----------



## pineywoods (Apr 7, 2019)

The amount of meat in the smoker doesn't really affect cook time. It will take a little longer when you put in more cold mass at the beginning of the smoke but not enough to really notice.

Many people will place a thermometer probe on the grate they have the meat on or the middle of multiple racks of meat. They make clips that attach to the grate and hold the probe keeping it from being right on the grate and giving a false reading. Many of us have used a potato to hold the probe by just pushing the probe through the potato so the last inch or two is sticking out taking a correct reading.
Many thermometers come with multiple probes for monitoring the smoker temp and multiple meat temps


----------



## schlotz (Apr 7, 2019)

Briskets: personally I would go with a higher smoker temp but at least 225º (verified) although I usually run 260-275º. Lots of ways (temps) to get them done.  Flats are more difficult vs whole packers. Wrapping, if done, usually around the IT stall temp which can occur anywhere from 150-165ºish. Doneness should be done by feel.  A probe going into multiple places easy like a knife through butter. My guess yours was not done yet.
Ribs: which, Babybacks or St. Louis cut. Again I would suggest higher temps i.e. 225-245º. Lots of ways to do ribs and they all make good eats.  Personally, I stopped wrapping them years ago. If interested, recipe is in the signature below.


----------



## Motsoma (Apr 7, 2019)

Great info I'm just starting out. Thanks


----------



## GaryHibbert (Apr 7, 2019)

Just my personal opinion, but I feel that 200 degrees is a bit too low.  I smoke everything low and slow, but my standard temp for almost everything is 240ish.  That includes chicken and turkey since nobody but my old hound Roxy eats the skin anyway--and black labs are NOT picky eaters.  LOL.
For the rest, all the replys so far have you covered very well.
I generally place my cook chamber probe clip on the rack just below the meat (not a great distance in a MES 30) and that works just fine.
It just takes a bit of time to figure out exactly what works for you in your smoker, but usually the failures (and trust me, we all have them) are still good eating.
Gary


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks all, really do appreciate the advice!!

When wrapping the brisket at the stall temp, let’s say I’d wrap in aluminum foil, would you put any liquid in with it?


----------



## HalfSmoked (Apr 8, 2019)

1st Welcome to the forum as you have seen you will get some great replies from members willing to help. Practice and patience is the learning curve here. There are many ways of doing a lot of what different members do it comes down to personal preference. I'm a no wrap guy myself others only wrap so you have to learn what works best for you and I do nothing under 225.

Warren


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks for the welcome Warren!
Absolutely I get it’s a learning curve, I’m just trying to get as many of my ducks in a row with a solid game plan prior to my next attempt.


----------



## schlotz (Apr 8, 2019)

1. Know without a doubt what your true grate temp is.
2. Pick a temp and maintain it throughout the smoke. Min of 225º or higher.
3. Consider using a reporting probe and place it properly in the meat.  ex)brisket in the thickest part of the flat placed in the middle.
4. Keep the lid closed, if you're lookin', ya aint cookin'.
5. Final IT and/or time are guidelines only. They aren't always the best indicator(s) for doneness.
6. Keep to simple procedures and *take very good notes for each and every smoke*.  Learn from them, and re-read them before the next attempt.


----------



## gmc2003 (Apr 8, 2019)

Hi and welcome to the site. Here's my take.

*Brisket* *flat*: These can be hard to get right. Best advise I can give - once your internal temp is around 195* start poking it allover with a skewer of some type. The skewer should go into the meat w/o much resistance. Dry brisket = underdone, crumbly brisket = overdone, juicy, flexible with slices that pull apart with just a slight tug = perfect.

*Pork* *ribs*: Most folks like their ribs to have a little bite to them(not FOTB). The consensus for the internal temp is about 190 to 195*. I like to check my ribs for doneness using the bend-test. Pick them up with your tongs a little over a third of the way down the rib. If the rib bends freely to a 45* angle or better then the rib is finished. If your going for FOTB then be careful using the bend test.

*Wings*: I like them with a light smoke profile and crispy skin. So use a heat greater then 325* or crisp them up after the smoke on a grill or broiler. Poultry takes on smoke rather quickly so be careful on the amount and type of wood used until you find your mark.

You'll find out what works for you and your equipment. It just takes a few tries and asking questions.

Chris


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 8, 2019)

Wow, thank you everyone for all the advice!! 
I’m going to test out the thermometer one night this week and give another brisket a shot on Saturday. I’ll be sure to report back.
One last question, for now, with this smoker I have a dial. What happens if I crank it up to full tilt and it doesn’t get the temperature up to what we need?


----------



## HalfSmoked (Apr 8, 2019)

Chris Thanks for the like it is appreciated.

Warren


----------



## HalfSmoked (Apr 8, 2019)

Motsoma Thanks for the like it is appreciated.

Warren


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 9, 2019)

Hi all, so tested out the thermometer tonight. It was off by 20*, the Bradley thermometer was reading cooler.

Also, current outside temp is 49*, no wind, smoker was empty, and with the smoker cranked up full tilt it could only get up to 285* ... is that normal?


----------



## GaryHibbert (Apr 10, 2019)

I've never used a Bradley smoker, so I don't know how hot they get, Chris.  On my MES, top temp using the stock setup is 275.  I've added a PID, so my high temp is really only limited by the fact that I don't want to burn down my smoker.  If your smoker simply won't reach the temps you want, there's not much you can do about it--just have to live with it.  I learned a long time ago that I would never be able to get crispy skin on chicken or turkey in my MES--it just wouldn't get hot enough.  It's just a sad fact of life that we have to live with the limitations of our individual smokers, or bite the bullet and buy something different.  
In your case, I wouldn't rush out and buy a new smoker right away (unless money is no object--which in my case definitely does NOT apply).  Learn to use your smoker to the best of its and your abilities, and while enjoying the fruits of your labor, learn all you can about various smokers.  Then, eventually you'll be able to say "Yes, that's the one I want".
As for your question about adding liquid to a foiled brisket......  I've only done one brisket (happily, it was a success).  I learned all I could ahead of time by reading everything written by the Brisket Master on this forum--Gary S--and following his advise.  He adds nothing to the foiled brisket.  So neither did I.
Gary


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 10, 2019)

Thanks Gary! I appreciate the advice!


----------



## Inscrutable (Apr 10, 2019)

Yes, I had a Bradley, and had temp limitations I just had to live with and work around. Think that’s true of all electric smokers.


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 11, 2019)

Thanks all!

I’m going to give the brisket and 321 ribs a try again this Saturday. How would you recommend I keep the heat up? 

I’ve read filling the water bowl with hot water rather than cold. I’ve also read that buying bbq bricks and wrapping them in foil would helps retain heat.


----------



## Inscrutable (Apr 11, 2019)

I didn’t try any of that but shielding from wind and/or exposing to sun both helped.


----------



## pineywoods (Apr 11, 2019)

You said you can get 275 out of the smoker. The 3-2-1 is for spare ribs if doing baby back ribs it's 2-2-1 and both are the times with the smoker set at 225. Don't forget to add a little liquid when you foil and seal the foil tight, be careful when taking the ribs out of the foil they will want to fall apart but will stiffen up some in the last hour.
Good luck with your smoke


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 11, 2019)

That’s the weird thing ... so assuming that ambient temperature of my smoker on my first attempt was 20* warmer than it was reading, that means the 321 ribs cooked at around 225* with the brisket. Did I cook the baby back ribs too long then? They certainly weren’t FOTB after foiling with apple cider vinegar.


----------



## fivetricks (Apr 12, 2019)

Your assumption is incorrect. So, the variances in your stock thermo and your 3rd party thermo will vary with both:

A) the amount of thermal mass in the smoker itself. An empty electric smoker's stock thermo will read "off" by a different number of degrees compared to a quality thermometer when empty than when packed full of meat. Therefor you must test and take note of the average variances when the smoker is mostly empty, average amount of full, as well as packed. This is you getting familiar with your smoker.

B) all smokers have "zones". If you setup 6-8 thermometers in your smoker, you will find that you have both hot and cold zones based on their location in relation to the burner and exhaust. You will want to familiarize yourself with these areas and plan accordingly. Perhaps by rotating foods periodically throughout the smoking session or by some other means.

Tips:

1. Fill your water pan with sand or gravel or something else with density and wrap the whole thing in foil. This will help to even out temp swings and zones within your electric smoker.

2. Research other modifications that other members with Bradley electric smoker's have made to even out temps. Many members have your type smoker and your type frustrations and have found workarounds.

3. Have you ever looked on a chart to see how electric ovens actually hold a temp? Remember, an electric smoker is just an electric oven you put smoke in. An electric oven simply holds an "average" temp based on how it is set. If you set an oven for 300, it's probably actually running up to about 310 or so, then turning the heat off until it hits let's say 290, then running back to 310. Rinse, lather, repeat. Those numbers are just examples.

So if you're setting your smoker to 225, you're most likely spending a good deal of time below that temp which is at minimum dragging out the time of your smokes. So when you're making sometbing like 3-2-1 ribs which are based on time and not temp, you will run into problems. 

The point being that setting an electric smoker to 225 degrees, in my opinion, isn't necessary.

Always cook to temp and tenderness. Let time be the only unknown variable. It'll be done when it's done. Good words to live by and the main tenant of bullet point number 4!


4. Have fun, drink beer, and don't overthink it. It's not science, it's just science ;-)

These are all things that will become first nature to you as you practice, practice, practice. Today's failures are tomorrows chili's if nothing else.


----------



## Hawging It (Apr 12, 2019)

Need to up the temp to 225 to 235 until IT is 160 to 165. Wrap and continue @225 to 235 until IT is 198. Perfect Pork Butt every time. Guaranteed At those temps it takes about 1 hour per pound of Pork Butt to reach the final finished temp.


----------



## pineywoods (Apr 12, 2019)

ChrisJoll said:


> Thanks all, really do appreciate the advice!!
> 
> When wrapping the brisket at the stall temp, let’s say I’d wrap in aluminum foil, would you put any liquid in with it?



Yes add some liquid when you go to foil it.
I usually smoke the brisket on the grate and when it hits about 160 give or take a little I place it in a disposable aluminum pan then add liquid usually beef stock and put foil over the top and make sure the foil seals tight.

When you smoked the ribs the last time you said you didn't add any liquid and didn't seal the foil tight. Adding the liquid and sealing the foil tight allows the ribs to braise in the foil and they become very tender. When you go to take the ribs out of the foil for the last hour be careful they will try to fall apart. They will firm up a bit that last hour on the grate. If you want to baste with bbq sauce do it the last 30 minutes most bbq sauces have a high sugar content and burn easily basting that last 30 minutes lessens the chance of them burning.  Most of the time I don't put any sauce on the ribs instead I'll heat some up and serve it on the side.

Good luck with your smoke and let us know how it goes


----------



## ChrisJoll (Apr 15, 2019)

Alright, so reporting back in ...

Smoked a 4lb brisket using same method but with a higher temp. Got the smoker up to 250* and left it in there for 4.5 hours. I was out, but when I came back it was up to 280*, so dropped it down a bit to 255*. It was done earlier than I thought. Used a probe thermometer and was going in and out super easy. Overall was good, much better pull-apart texture. I think it could have been a tad bit juicer and would have been perfect. Thinking I may try foil next time at the stall temp and see how that changes things.

Ribs - Had one rack of baby back ribs, and followed 2-2-1 method. I really wanted FOTB. Smoked at 250* and did more of a 1.5-2.5-1 ratio and they were perfect!!! Completely FOTB with just a tiny bit of pull to them.

This time did sausage and corn on the cob in there too and they turned out amazing!!

Thanks for all the help everyone. Look forward to the next experiment!


----------



## HalfSmoked (Apr 15, 2019)

JC in GB Thanks for the like it is appreciated.

Warren


----------



## JC in GB (Apr 15, 2019)

You will get it figured out and be making pit-master quality briskets and ribs in no time!

Happy smoking!


----------



## jokensmoken (Apr 18, 2019)

ChrisJoll said:


> Wow, thank you everyone for all the advice!!
> I’m going to test out the thermometer one night this week and give another brisket a shot on Saturday. I’ll be sure to report back.
> One last question, for now, with this smoker I have a dial. What happens if I crank it up to full tilt and it doesn’t get the temperature up to what we need?


While I dont have experience with Bradley electric smokers (I use masterbuilt MES 30) I understand they make reasonably good equipment so hitting a minimum of 250°F cooking chamber temp shouldn't be an issue
By your description of issues, I'm with every body else on the " undercooked" thinking...and I'll also advise a good multi probe digital thermo.
Brisket takes practice, practice practice...
There isnt really a right or wrong with procedure or cooking technique The EXCEPTION might be in determining doneness.
For ribs Smoken Al has a thread on here going called PERFECT RIBS EVERY TIME where he thoroughly outlines his technique which works very well.
Chicken skin, like everyone else has said, is never crisp...
I personally like to heat my propane deep fryer (Turkey deep fryer) to about 350° and drop my chicken in for about 1 and 1/2 minutes to crisp it up a bit...
But as others have said a hot grill or broiler will accomplish the same thing.
Good luck, take notes and keep the smoke rolling.
Walt.


----------



## fivetricks (Apr 20, 2019)

Yeah, not all meat is equal. Especially in the "choice" category. That's why many of us pay up for high quality meats. We've hit too many "choice" turds lol. You can earn the extra money back you spent on a nicer piece of meat, but you'll never get the time back you spent babysitting the smoker cooking a dud.


----------

