# Shipping Cured Meats



## jfsjazz (Apr 26, 2020)

I'd like to send meat sticks to my son in Denver from my home in Ohio.  The meats are cured, smoked, fully cooked and vac sealed. Would they be safe to send as is or do I need to send them packaged w dry ice?

Thanks!


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## HalfSmoked (Apr 26, 2020)

They should be fine to send if in doubt ship over night.

Warren


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## JckDanls 07 (Apr 26, 2020)

Lets remember that cure does not make them room temp shelf stable...  Cure is only for the cooking process...  Myself, I would pack in dry ice or use the frozen gel packs with a MAX of 2 day shipping...


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## normanaj (Apr 26, 2020)

If they're cured,smoked and cooked and then vac sealed I wouldn't worry.

Even without preservatives a Slim Jim or equivalent has one hell of a shelf life.


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## daveomak (Apr 27, 2020)

_STOP !!!_      ......  No, you  cannot safely ship cured meats....   They have moisture in them...   They are NOT pH adjusted...  They do NOT have mold inhibitors added.....
NEVER ship cooked meat....



normanaj said:


> If they're cured,smoked and cooked and then vac sealed I wouldn't worry.
> 
> Even without preservatives a Slim Jim or equivalent has one hell of a shelf life.



........
   Slim Jim's are preserved.........

*Ingredients*
A 2009 _Wired_ article listed some of the ingredients as beef, mechanically separated chicken, lactic acid starter culture, dextrose, salt, sodium nitrite and hydrolyzed soy.[13] They note that although ConAgra refers to Slim Jim as a "meat stick", *it resembles a fermented sausage, such as salami or pepperoni, which uses bacteria and sugar to produce lactic acid, lowering the pH of the sausage to around 5.0 and firming up the meat.[13]*

Sodium nitrite is added to prevent the meat from turning gray,[13] and  hydrolyzed soy contains monosodium glutamate.[13]
..........
This very cool video from Wired puts the ingredient listing into layman’s terms, and it’s a little frightening. It starts with beef (most likely the lower grades from the oldest cows, called utility, cutter, and canner). It’s ground and mixed with mechanically separated chicken, which is the chicken equivalent of “pink slime” (even though the production process is different), essentially puréed chicken bones, nerves, blood vessels, skin, and a small amount of meat. Sugar, spices, additional flavorings, and a whole lot of salt (one-sixth the daily recommended intake) are then added, along with corn and wheat protein (for texture), and hydrolyzed gluten (which gives it an MSG-like savoriness). Traditional sausage-making ingredients lactic acid starter culture (which keeps the pH balance down) and sodium nitrite (which prevents botulism and keeps the meat red) are then added, and the slurry is piped into a casing and allowed to ferment until ready to eat.
.......
*What's Inside a Slim Jim?*






	

		
			
		

		
	
 * Photo: Tim Morris * *Beef*
It's real meat, all right. But it ain't Kobe. The US Department of Agriculture categorizes beef into eight grades of quality. The bottom three—utility, cutter, and canner—are typically used in processed foods and come from older steers with partially ossified vertebrae, tougher tissue, and generally less reason to live. ConAgra wasn't exactly forthcoming on what's inside Slim Jim.
*Mechanically separated chicken*
Did you imagine a conveyor belt carrying live chickens into a giant machine, set to the classic cartoon theme "Powerhouse"? You're right! Well, maybe not about the music. Poultry scraps are pressed mechanically through a sieve that extrudes the meat as a bright pink paste and leaves the bones behind (most of the time).
*Corn and wheat proteins*
Slim Jim is made by ConAgra, and if there are two things ConAgra has a lot of, it's corn and wheat.
*Lactic acid starter culture*
Although ConAgra refers to Slim Jim as a meat stick (yum), it has a lot in common with old-fashioned fermented sausages like salami and pepperoni. *They all use bacteria and sugar to produce lactic acid, which lowers the pH of the sausage to around 5.0, firming up the meat and hopefully killing all harmful bacteria.
Dextrose*
Serves as food for the lactic acid starter culture. Slim Jim: It's alive!
*Salt*
Salt binds the water molecules in meat, leaving little H2O available for microbial activity—and thereby preventing spoilage. One Slim Jim gives you more than one-sixth of the sodium your body needs in a day.
*Sodium nitrite*
Cosmetically, this is added to sausage because it combines with myoglobin in animal muscle to keep it from turning gray. Antibiotically, it inhibits botulism. Toxicologically, 6 grams of the stuff—roughly the equivalent of 1,400 Slim Jims—can kill you. So go easy there, champ.
*Hydrolyzed soy*
Hydrolysis, in this instance, breaks larger soy protein molecules into their constituent amino acids, such as glutamic acid. Typically, the process also results in glutamic acid salt—also known as monosodium glutamate, a familiar flavor enhancer.


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## chopsaw (Apr 27, 2020)

If you go UPS they will have the safe way to send them . I have never used them , but have looked into it  . They have special containers and guide lines for such things , so it can be done .


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## daveomak (Apr 27, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> If you go UPS they will have the safe way to send them . I have never used them , but have looked into it  . They have special containers and guide lines for such things , so it can be done .



Chop....  Find out HOW TO DO IT ...    BEFORE You put up that statement.....


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## chopsaw (Apr 27, 2020)

daveomak said:


> Chop.... Find out HOW TO DO IT ... BEFORE You put up that statement.....


Ok HERE'S  how you do it . Go to UPS tell them you want to send perishable food products . Give them the destination . They will tell you a price . You say yes or no . Happens everyday .


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## Bearcarver (Apr 27, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> Ok HERE'S  how you do it . Go to UPS tell them you want to send perishable food products . Give them the destination . They will tell you a price . You say yes or no . Happens everyday .




I would think UPS knows more about shipping than most of us---Probably ALL of Us.
Definitely more than I know.

Bear


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## daveomak (Apr 27, 2020)

Mail Order Food Safety
					






					www.fsis.usda.gov
				



*Mail Order Food Safety*

Convenience means many things to many people, but anything that helps save time is always high on everyone's list of conveniences. With more Americans working and being more time-crunched than ever, the ultimate time saver and convenience is home delivery of mail order foods.
While the mail order industry enjoys a good safety record, ordering food through the mail may cause concerns about food safety, shelf life, and distribution. It's imperative to develop some mental checklists for how both food and packaging should look when perishable mail order foods arrive. This is especially true for meat, poultry, fish, and other perishable foods such as cheesecake, which must be carefully handled in a timely manner to prevent foodborne illness.
The following food safety tips will help the purchaser and recipient determine if their perishable foods have been handled properly:

Make sure the company sends perishable items, like meat or poultry, cold or frozen and packed with a cold source. It should be packed in foam or heavy corrugated cardboard.
The food should be delivered as quickly as possible—ideally, *overnight*. Make sure perishable items and the outer package are labeled "Keep Refrigerated" to alert the recipient.
When you receive a food item marked "Keep Refrigerated," open it immediately and check its temperature. The food should arrive frozen or partially frozen with ice crystals still visible or at least refrigerator cold—below 40 °F as measured with a food thermometer. Even if a product is smoked, cured, vacuum-packed, and/or fully cooked, it still is a perishable product and must be kept cold. If perishable food arrives warm—above 40 °F as measured with a food thermometer—notify the company. *Do not consume the food. Do not even taste suspect food.*
Tell the recipient if the company has promised a delivery date. Or alert the recipient that "the gift is in the mail" so someone can be there to receive it. Don't have perishable items delivered to an office unless you know it will arrive on a work day and there is refrigerator space available for keeping it cold.
Americans also enjoy cooking foods that are family favorites and mailing these items to family and friends. The same rules that cover the mail order industry also apply to foods prepared and mailed from home. Make sure perishable foods are not held at temperatures between 40 and 140 °F, the "Danger Zone", for longer than 2 hours. Pathogenic bacteria can grow rapidly in the "Danger Zone", but they may not affect the taste, smell, or appearance of a food. In other words, you cannot tell that a food has been mishandled or is unsafe to eat.
For perishable foods prepared at home and mailed, follow these guidelines:

Ship in a sturdy box.
Pack with a cold source, i.e., frozen gel packs or dry ice.
When using dry ice:
Don't touch the dry ice with bare hands.
Don't let it come in direct contact with food.
Warn the recipient of its use by writing "Contains Dry Ice" on the outside of the box.

Wrap box in two layers of brown paper.
Use permanent markers to label outside of the box. Use recommended packing tape.
Label outside clearly; make sure address is complete and correct.
Write "Keep Refrigerated" on outside of the box.
Alert recipient of its expected arrival.
Do not send to business addresses or where there will not be adequate refrigerator storage.
Do not send packages at the end of the week. Send them at the beginning of the week so they do not sit in the post office or mailing facility over the weekend.
Whenever possible, send foods that do not require refrigeration, e.g., hard salami, hard cheese, country ham.






Use the handy chart, compiled by the USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline and FDA Outreach and Information Center, to plan your purchase, send a home-prepared item, and store popular mail order foods.


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## chopsaw (Apr 27, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> I would think UPS knows more about shipping than most of us---Probably ALL of Us.


That's exactly right . I built a UPS distribution hub at The St. Louis airport years ago . Part of the contract was I had to go thru the same training as the handlers . Week long 8 hours a day . Believe me they have it covered . 
My original comment ,


chopsaw said:


> They have special containers and guide lines for such things


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## jfsjazz (Apr 27, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> That's exactly right . I built a UPS distribution hub at The St. Louis airport years ago . Part of the contract was I had to go thru the same training as the handlers . Week long 8 hours a day . Believe me they have it covered .
> My original comment ,


Thanks to all who weighed in here! I appreciate all of the insight and experience!!!

I think I  have 2 options:

1. Send it properly packaged within food safety standards, or
2.  Make my son wait until his next visit home!!!


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## daveomak (Apr 27, 2020)

And, they learned all that from the FSIS.....    If they didn't do it like FSIS recommendations, they would be cited...   Just like restaurants...   etc....


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## Bearcarver (Apr 27, 2020)

daveomak said:


> And, they learned all that from the FSIS.....    If they didn't do it like FSIS recommendations, they would be cited...   Just like restaurants...   etc....




Yup---I guess that means it's a good place to take it to get it done.

Bear


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## gary s (Apr 28, 2020)

Great Advice Dave -  You may want to pass it along to UPS and FedEx both

Gary


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## HalfSmoked (Apr 28, 2020)

Not to keep this going but a wonder some of isn't sick if its all that bad. I know that it has been done and that doesn't mean that its right just saying. For instance the Christmas exchange I know things have been shipped and not to the standards mention here. So may we need a post on proper way of shipping.

Warren


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## daveomak (Apr 28, 2020)

HalfSmoked said:


> So may we need a post on proper way of shipping.
> 
> Warren




Read post #10...


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## HalfSmoked (Apr 29, 2020)

Sorry Dave you missed my point. What I mean is a place where people can look to find a post for food safety and shipping without having to read many post in another thread to find it. Like yours look at post #10 in the middle of a another post. If I didn't read this thread I would never see your post #10.

Warren


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2020)

Good idea....   Consider it done.....


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## rc4u (Apr 29, 2020)

wow paranoid eaters ..  so i can take my jerkey on a camping trip for a week but i cant ship it to my son.. ha,, and dont give me any damn speeches. its absurd


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2020)

rc4u said:


> wow paranoid eaters ..  so i can take my jerkey on a camping trip for a week but i cant ship it to my son.. ha,, and dont give me any damn speeches. its absurd




We are s peaking of meats that have moisture in them.....   Maybe you missed that part....


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## rc4u (Apr 29, 2020)

if jerky doesnt break when bent theres moisture. but wet meat i understand. but they way you try scare newbies,,, STOP!!! JEEZE ITS NOT LIKE THAT..  i know ive been emailed with thoughts that people are kinda scared to say something in reply of getting slammed as i have been before.. . theres are lots of good ways and ways some dont agree with at all, well then dont do it.. but preaching is not allowed to infringe on others.


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2020)

rc4u said:


> if jerky doesnt break when bent theres moisture. but wet meat i understand. but they way you try scare newbies,,, STOP!!! JEEZE ITS NOT LIKE THAT..  i know ive been emailed with thoughts that people are kinda scared to say something in reply of getting slammed as i have been before.. . theres are lots of good ways and ways some dont agree with at all, well then dont do it.. but preaching is not allowed to infringe on others.




Maybe you missed the part it's an arm of the USDA / FDA...  named FSIS.....  Food Safety Inspection Service....

I'm just pointing out food safety.....  I guess you missed that part also......


...


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## rc4u (Apr 29, 2020)

i didnt miss anything.. its just your veiw and no room for others,, heck the state speed limit is 75 i go 80 along with others .. those guidelines are just that .. there for the people with NO damn common sense and have to be told exactly.. like  so Many posSt say if ya inject meat ya HAVE TO ABSOLUTLY OR ELSE get to 140 fAST..... .. well i dont know where that meat comes from or the guy that just puts injectors in drawer and not wash em. ya want more i got em.


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## rc4u (Apr 29, 2020)

look i'm not trying to convince you of anything/ its just you think everybody should read those guide lines like there GOD .. they are not, we are American's and have our own brain to do with what we deem good for ourselves not your own practices that you think everybody else is supposed to follow.    Jones town died long time ago.... nobody can fix stupid,, it s just futal to tell somebody to wash there hands then stick the meat.. if they have to be told that then whats the use


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2020)

Hover the mouse over my avatar and click on *IGNORE*... Then you will have to make a conscious effort to read what I post... I think I asked you to do that, at least once before...


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## bmudd14474 (Apr 29, 2020)

rc4u said:


> wow paranoid eaters ..  so i can take my jerkey on a camping trip for a week but i cant ship it to my son.. ha,, and dont give me any damn speeches. its absurd





rc4u said:


> i didnt miss anything.. its just your veiw and no room for others,, heck the state speed limit is 75 i go 80 along with others .. those guidelines are just that .. there for the people with NO damn common sense and have to be told exactly.. like  so Many posSt say if ya inject meat ya HAVE TO ABSOLUTLY OR ELSE get to 140 fAST..... .. well i dont know where that meat comes from or the guy that just puts injectors in drawer and not wash em. ya want more i got em.






 rc4u
 I do understand what your saying but in our rules around here we will always guide someone to follow USDA standards when it comes to food safety. You may find them absurd but you may have a great immune system that can handle a certain level of bacteria or what not. But what happens when a person that you give advise to (that is not in line with USDA)  follow it and get sick or worse die. Do you want to have that hanging over your head that you gave them the advise that killed them because they had a immune system that was compromised or not as strong as yours? I know I do not and will not be that person. 

Just like the advise on the speed limit. It is a law that you go no more than 75 but you do it. Are you going to tell the cop that pulls you over that the sign is just for people with no common sense? I do not think so and if you did it wouldn't get you there.

You can have different opinions then people but when they back the information up with fact from the USDA or which ever governing body then you really can't argue that unless your just looking for a fight. 

Yes there are many ways to skin a cat but do not criticize someone because they do not do it your way.

I hope this debate is over. If not ill take the appropriate action for the forum at that point in time. Want to discuss this further PM me.

Thanks.


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## dr k (Apr 29, 2020)

rc4u said:


> wow paranoid eaters ..  so i can take my jerkey on a camping trip for a week but i cant ship it to my son.. ha,, and dont give me any damn speeches. its absurd


Jerky that is cured and has met the low water activity requirements being much drier than snack sticks is room temp stable as well as foods with acids from vinegar etc that brings the PH level down to around 4.2. Like pickles, hot sauces.


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## Solomonius (Jul 17, 2021)

I think it would be much better if you pack the jerky together with dry ice. I know jerky doesn't spoil at the proper temperature, but if the temperature is constantly high, it can spoil. + on top of everything, delivery should be up to 3 days max. If more than that, then say goodbye to the meat. My uncle once sent a piece of jerky, but with 3 days to go, it didn't arrive. Good thing my uncle looked in the aliexpress shipping tracking app and found out that the meat had already been delivered, but got lost in storage. This is complete nonsense, I don't know how this could have happened.


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