# Is my AMNPS getting enough airflow? (MES 30)



## yqyxzroh (Aug 3, 2020)

I have a newer generation MES 30 and I recently bought a AMNPS. I removed the chip loading tube completely and had the AMNPS tray in the bottom alumnium foil pan as show in this picture: I wanted to put it in an alumnium pan to catch any ash. The top tray is there to catch any dripping from the food to prevent a grease file on the AMNPS.







After the thing stopped smoking, the leftover pellets in the AMNPS looked like this:







Is this what they should look like after a "clean" burn? If not, what should I change about my setup?
Additionally, I noticed that this setup raised the ambient temperature in the MES by about 80F. Ambient temperature outside was about 80F and the temperature inside my MES (as measured by a thermometer) was about 160F by the time the pellets were done smoking. Is this normal or was it burning too much? I don't care about cold smoking at the moment, I just want to know if a ~80F increase in ambient temp is normal.


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## smokerjim (Aug 3, 2020)

not real familiar with the newer generation but 80 degrees seems much, try putting your chip loader back in and just pulling it out 3-4 inches, you may getting to much air. most people will just set the tray on bottom rack so air can come up through bottom. leave the top tray there to catch drippings , leave top vent wide open also you may need to fill your tray a little more hard to tell by picture but looks like you don't have it filled enough.


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## daveomak (Aug 3, 2020)

Pellets burn hot but I'm not sure about +80....    Did you have the element on ???

To get colder smoke, turn the pellets into dust...  Dust burns/smolders almost cold...  about +5 temp rise....






						Making dust from pellets...
					

Mr T told me he makes dust all the time for some of his smoking needs..  He ground the pellets in a food processor or something..  I tried it and it seemed a little tough on the machine.. Pellets are HARD !!!.. So I threw them in warm HOT water..  in about 4 minutes they were falling apart...  I...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				




Adding legs improved the air flow to the AMNPS and really helped the pellet/dust burn....
...


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 3, 2020)

smokerjim said:


> not real familiar with the newer generation but 80 degrees seems much, try putting your chip loader back in and just pulling it out 3-4 inches, you may getting to much air. most people will just set the tray on bottom rack so air can come up through bottom. leave the top tray there to catch drippings , leave top vent wide open also you may need to fill your tray a little more hard to tell by picture but looks like you don't have it filled enough.


I don't really care about the ambient temperature increase because I will be using the AMNPS for hot smoking, I just want to make sure the pellets burn cleanly. 
The first test I conducted was with the chip loader in, but pulled out 1-2 inches. That resulted in black pellets leftover.
I'll try 3-4 inches and see what happens. I don't think my model of the MES allows for the AMNPS tray to be placed on the bottom and if I use the bottom most rack, I'll need two racks due to the drip pan for catching drippings... Right now the foil pan with the AMNPS is basically sitting where the water pan was and the bottom rack is being used for a drip pan, leaving me with 3 racks for cooking.
I should mention that this is all without food or power to the MES.
Top vent is fully open. I only loaded 1 row of the maze because I am testing.



daveomak said:


> Pellets burn hot but I'm not sure about +80....    Did you have the element on ???
> 
> To get colder smoke, turn the pellets into dust...  Dust burns/smolders almost cold...  about +5 temp rise....
> 
> ...


MES was completely powered off. The ambient temp started at around 80F, as measured by my probe thermometer. After the pellets were completely burned (no more smoke coming out of top exhaust), the ambient temp was around 160F.
Making dust out of the pellets seems like a lot of work... I don't really care about the ambient temp increase unless it's an issue of the pellets not burning properly.


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## smokerjim (Aug 3, 2020)

yqyxzroh said:


> . I only loaded 1 row of the maze because I am testing.


my mistake i thought the burnt pellets were the pellets waiting to be burned, maybe look into the mailbox mod that's what i ended up doing and glad i did that way you'll have all your racks.


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 3, 2020)

smokerjim said:


> my mistake i thought the burnt pellets were the pellets waiting to be burned, maybe look into the mailbox mod that's what i ended up doing and glad i did that way you'll have all your racks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What do your pellets look like after being burned off in the mailbox?


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## smokerjim (Aug 3, 2020)

yqyxzroh said:


> What do your pellets look like after being burned off in the mailbox?


a light ash, almost like ashes from a cigar


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 3, 2020)

How long did it take for the one row of pellets to burn ??  Should be around 3 hrs ... 

I'm thinking if you put some shorter legs like Dave's on it and put it on the left side of the heat element you can get rid of the foil pan ...   The maze will fit in beside it..  right ??


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 4, 2020)

JckDanls 07 said:


> How long did it take for the one row of pellets to burn ??  Should be around 3 hrs ...
> 
> I'm thinking if you put some shorter legs like Dave's on it and put it on the left side of the heat element you can get rid of the foil pan ...   The maze will fit in beside it..  right ??


It was about 3 or 4 hours. I don't believe the maze will fit on the left of the heating element. I could put it on the bottom rack, but then I would also need the 3rd rack for a drip pan.


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## normanaj (Aug 4, 2020)

Go with a mailbox mod If you continue to struggle with the tray inside the smoker or you could always try this:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/u-bolt-mod-for-the-amnts.271846/


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## dr k (Aug 4, 2020)

If your getting no where with location and space, hang the empty Amnps on the left side of the bottom rack under the drip pan with four S hooks to find a good location. Remove the bottom rack with Amnps and place rack so the Amnps hangs and fill with pellets, light it and when ready slide in the bottom rack with lit Amnps and put pan on bottom rack so air can move all around the Amnps.


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 4, 2020)

I tried a "dry run" (MES turned off) again with:

One row of pellets
Chip tube pulled out about 2 inches
AMNPS on the bottom most cooking rack
Foil pan on the rack directly above
The AMNPS burned for about 4 hours again, which should be correct. However, I am still not getting 100% white ash leftovers... Ambient temp still rose about 80F (75F -> 165F). I also noticed that the bottom of my foil pan is completely black with what I'm assuming is creosote... I am really concerned that I'm making "dirty smoke" and I don't want to test with food because then the food would get wasted... Is it possible that I have too much air going inside my MES and that it is burning too hot? Any tips would be greatly appreciated...


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## daveomak (Aug 4, 2020)

Too much air will not make creosote...  Lack of temperature makes creosote...  it's part of life...  Nothing you can do about it...


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## daveomak (Aug 4, 2020)

Making a Mail Box mod, and having aluminum dryer duct connected to your smoker, will allow for the creosote to condense, out of the smoke, and provide clean smoke for your food...

Here is a ham etc....   Clean smoke made these meats....


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## dr k (Aug 4, 2020)

My mailbox gets 120 with the Amnps inside with a IR Therm gun .measuring the outside top. Depends on the temp outdoors. Summer vs winter etc. 

Ash may have a couple pieces of pellets that are now charcoal but the ash isnt bright white from how pellets burn or smoke making the powdery ash dirty white. 

Time to taste the smoke. Throw a 1lb. Chub of 80/20 ground beef rolled in your favorite rub in for the Guinea pig test with  a therm in it. Smoke another row of pellets till 158.


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 4, 2020)

daveomak said:


> Too much air will not make creosote...  Lack of temperature makes creosote...  it's part of life...  Nothing you can do about it...


By "lack of temperature" do you mean the temperature at which the pellets are smoldering at or the temperature inside the MES? I started another test run with the same parameters as my previous post but with the MES powered on and set to ~225F. I did not place the lit AMNPS inside the MES until the MES reached ~180F. I immediately noticed that the smoke coming out of the exhaust vent was much thinner and less white. I will report back in ~4 hours to see how the pellets turned out.

Making the mailbox mod is definitely on my todo list but at the moment I'd like to try to get the AMNPS to work without it.


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 4, 2020)

I like the idea of HANGING it from the bottom rack (temporarily) ... 

I went back and reread the original post...  I couldn't find anywhere the brand of pellets you are using ???


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 4, 2020)

JckDanls 07 said:


> I like the idea of HANGING it from the bottom rack (temporarily) ...
> 
> I went back and reread the original post...  I couldn't find anywhere the brand of pellets you are using ???


I am going to consider hanging it from the bottom rack and having a foil pan on the bottom rack so only 1 rack gets used, but at the moment I am placing it on the bottom rack and having a foil pan on the rack above. 
I am using Bear Mountain pellets. I have a shipment of lumberjack pellets coming in a few days so I will be using those later on. Right now I am just trying to "calibrate my settings", so to speak.


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 4, 2020)

Unfortunately...  both those brands are for cooking (heat)...  meaning they are not 100% flavored wood...  This does not mean that this is why your getting such high temps (which I really am confused about)... Those two brands are a mixture of different woods designed specifically for cooking at high temps...
A-MAZ-N Products (where the AMNPS comes from)  has 100% flavored woods that are used for the maze or tube ... 100% apple means 100% apple...  no oak, alder, or anything else mixed in ... 100% pecan means 100% pecan and so on ... He has a Pitmasters Choice blend that is absolutely scrumptious ...






						Wood Pellets and Pellet Dust | A-MAZE-N
					

A-MAZE-N wood pellets and sawdust are made from 100% all natural hardwood with no added fillers, binders, or oils. Single and blended flavors are available.




					amazenproducts.com


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## Bearcarver (Aug 4, 2020)

Mine works Great every time:
I have the same interior as yours, except mine is a 40" MES.
I put the AMNPS on the bottom rack, all the way to the right end, just above the dumper.
I pull my Chip dumper out about 3", and rotate it 180°.
Top Vent all the way open.
I usually use Hickory Pellets, but anything but Straight Cherry will work good.
The ashes should be Gray, and collapsed in the lanes, when finished.

If you put it in a Pan, it won't get the proper air flow.

Bear


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 4, 2020)

JckDanls 07 said:


> Unfortunately...  both those brands are for cooking (heat)...  meaning they are not 100% flavored wood...  This does not mean that this is why your getting such high temps (which I really am confused about)... Those two brands are a mixture of different woods designed specifically for cooking at high temps...
> A-MAZ-N Products (where the AMNPS comes from)  has 100% flavored woods that are used for the maze or tube ... 100% apple means 100% apple...  no oak, alder, or anything else mixed in ... 100% pecan means 100% pecan and so on ... He has a Pitmasters Choice blend that is absolutely scrumptious ...
> 
> 
> ...


The Bear Mountain pellets I am using are a blend of various woods but the Lumber jack ones I bought are all 100% flavor woods - 100% oak, 100% apple, 100% cherry.



Bearcarver said:


> Mine works Great every time:
> I have the same interior as yours, except mine is a 40" MES.
> I put the AMNPS on the bottom rack, all the way to the right end, just above the dumper.
> I pull my Chip dumper out about 3", and rotate it 180°.
> ...


I ended up taking it out of the pan and putting it on the bottom rack with a pan on the rack above. I am currently trying a run where the MES is powered, in my previous tests, the MES was not powered.
Is there any downside to leaving the chip tube completely out?

About an hour into my test my temperature is holding steady at ~235F when set to ~245F. The smoke looks OK, but I don't have enough experience to judge whether or not it could be considered "thin blue smoke".


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## daveomak (Aug 4, 2020)

'Trying' to smoke meat at temps above ~140 ish, doesn't work too well....   You are melting the fat...  Fat coats the outside of the meat...   Smoke sticks to the fat....   The outside of the meat turns dark color...


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## Bearcarver (Aug 4, 2020)

yqyxzroh said:


> The Bear Mountain pellets I am using are a blend of various woods but the Lumber jack ones I bought are all 100% flavor woods - 100% oak, 100% apple, 100% cherry.
> 
> 
> I ended up taking it out of the pan and putting it on the bottom rack with a pan on the rack above. I am currently trying a run where the MES is powered, in my previous tests, the MES was not powered.
> ...



With the AMNPS where I said to put it,
I believe you get better air flow to the AMNPS with the dumper about 3" out & rotated 180°.
All the way out gets less air flow. IMO
It doesn't really have to be an actual blue smoke. The important thing is "Not Too Heavy" which doesn't happen with an AMNPS, if you only light one end. Lighting both ends is too heavy a smoke.

Bear


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 4, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> With the AMNPS where I said to put it,
> I believe you get better air flow to the AMNPS with the dumper about 3" out & rotated 180°.
> All the way out gets less air flow. IMO
> It doesn't really have to be an actual blue smoke. The important thing is "Not Too Heavy" which doesn't happen with an AMNPS, if you only light one end. Lighting both ends is too heavy a smoke.
> ...


When you do a cook, do you preheat the MES to temp before adding your AMNPS? Do you put your food in immediately after the AMNPS is in or do you wait a bit?


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 4, 2020)

When I use to use electric... I would put the unlit tray full of pellets in while it was pre-heating ... when I was ready to put meat in I would light the pellets and put meat in at same time ..


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## Bearcarver (Aug 5, 2020)

yqyxzroh said:


> When you do a cook, do you preheat the MES to temp before adding your AMNPS? Do you put your food in immediately after the AMNPS is in or do you wait a bit?




In a perfect world that would be a good thing to do.
However I do this order:
#1. plug MES in, set time to 20 hours, set temp, & start MES.
#2  Put Pellets or Dust in AMNPS or AMNS, and light one end (setting on my deck railing, in a pan).
#3  Stop back about 6 or 8 times, blowing on the fire in the AMNPS to get the cigar-like cherry burning deeply.
#4  By the time my MES is up to Temp, my AMNPS is ready to go, so in it goes, and adjust chip dumper for air flow.
#5. Put Meat in & hang Maverick sensor about 3" from Meat.

Bear


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## yqyxzroh (Aug 5, 2020)

Just a quick update - great results. I found a partial pork butt in my freezer and tested a smoke on it.

I removed all grates/drip pans and heated MES to maximum temp (about 290F) for about an hour to burn any residual grease/stuff out. There was a lot of smoke coming out at the beginning, which I assume was the residual grease burning off. Chip tube tray was about 2-3 inches out with the chip area facing down.
After about an hour, I filled my AMNPS and lit it (not inside the MES). I let it burn for about 8 minutes before the flame died by itself. I blew on it one last time to make sure any flame was 100% out.
I lower MES to cooking temp (250F) and put in the bottom drip grate and grates. Smoking AMNPS went on the bottommost rack and a foil drip pan went on the rack directly above it to catch any drippings. Temp dropped to about 200F after opening the MES to do all of this.
I let the AMNPS smoke inside the MES without any food for about 10-15 minutes while the MES got back up to cooking temp and stabilized (250F).
After the temperature stabilized, I put the meat on and started cooking
The result was great. I wrapped the pork butt in foil when it reached 160F internal and to my surprise, it was not completely black! It was a dark mahogany and looked absolutely amazing. My previous attempts with the stock smoking tray, third party smoking boxes, Masterbuilt cold smoker, and my initial setup of having the AMNPS in a pan all resulted in a really black bark. My previous attempts never tasted super bitter to me so I assumed black/a little bitterness was correct/normal...

Now my only issue is with the MES unit itself, as it never seemed to break 250F with the unwrapped pork inside of it... After wrapping the pork, I was able to hit temps of 260-270F. I guess these temps are fine as I'm told 225-250 is the ideal range for bbq/smoking...

Thank you to everyone who replied as all of these responses helped me in achieving this result!


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