# Oklahoma Joe Longhorn size questions



## hillingdoner (Jun 4, 2014)

Hi,

First post.  Been reading a while and lurking.  Finally joined.

Just bought an Oklahoma Joe Longhorn from Lowes.  I would have loved to have a Jambo, Lang, etc. etc., but I just can't afford it.  This OJ is as much as I can afford.  

I've already sealed the doors and seasoned it.  Also built a firebox.  Looking to do a 45 degree plate on the firebox to cook chamber inlet to help with the heat there and also looking into the best way to get the exhaust stack down to grate level at least. 

My questions come out of using the smoker builder calculator.  When I input the measurements for the cook chamber and the firebox I get some concerning numbers. 

The firebox comes out at around 135% of the optimum size.  Okay, probably not going to build a whole new firebox.  BUT more concerning is that as close as I can calculate from actual measuring, my air inlet is right at 7.5 square inches.  The calculator shows more like 15 or so square inches required.

Also, the calculator is showing that the opening from the firebox to the cook chamber is too large and that the exhaust vent is too short.  As close as I can measure my exhaust it is approx. 9 to 10 inches short.

So, the biggest issue to me is the inlet on the firebox.  Basically it is half the size of what the calculator specifies.  What has anyone done to cure the inlet size to allow more air?  Any tips or pics would be appreciated. 

Now I've got the OJ I'd like to optimize what I have at least and this inlet size looks to be a real deficiency.

The firebox to cooking chamber sizing I can probably adjust with the plate/deflector I plan to put in.  Also, the pipe length issue will probably be taken care of with extending the pipe down to the grate.  So, really it is just the inlet that is a big concern.

Thanks for any help.  I did do a search before posting.  If I missed where this has already been covered please post a link to the thread. 

Cheers


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## hillingdoner (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm adding to this post for anyone as anal as I am on this stuff.  It probably makes no difference as I've not seen anyone else talking about it and they seem to be cooking fine, but I know me and my lunacy it would bug me without trying to do something about it.

I've been looking at posts others have made about their OJ Longhorn and have seen pictures where their inlet door on the side of the firebox is different.  They have a round inlet adjuster with two holes rather than the single triangular one I have.  Don't know if it is a deal of where the grill is purchased as I have seen the round two hole inlet adjuster type at Home Depot and Lowes carries the single type.  I did not bother to measure the HD one to see if it was the same 40" cook chamber etc. or not.  Either way, with the measurements from my smoker the smoker builder calculator says that my inlet size is half of what it needs to be. 

I put graph paper behind the inlet with it full open and traced the opening.  A square inch on the graph paper is 16 boxes.  Calculating out I came out with approx. 7.5 square inches of vent stock. 

I looked at various ways of increasing the inlet area and then I had a bit of a brain storm (well, more like a light drizzle than a storm).  The way the existing damper is designed, when you open the adjuster all the way the adjuster handle hits the side of the opening long before the damper is fully open.  I took the damper off the inlet and measured the total space on the inlet available using the old graph paper method again.   Much closer to what I needed. 

It also looked to me like the damper was not a straight triangle (don't remember the geometry term, is it right triangle?) either.  So what I did was cut the existing adjuster handle off so it would not hit my firebox grate or box, flip the adjuster over and remount it.  I then opened the adjuster all the way leaving just enough of the damper visible to put a nut and bolt through for a new handle.  Ended up that the adjuster handle was going to be closer to the top rather than the bottom, but works fine.  I made sure it would close off the firebox inlet when I wanted to close down the grill and marked, drilled and put a 1/4 bolt through it.  Works great! 

Not got the 15" inlet that the calculator said I needed, but the old graph paper measure calculator put the inlet now at a smidge over 12" of area. 

So might be wasted/futile exercise, but if anyone else has the same grill and thinks they may have an inlet starvation issue, here is a cheap thing you can do to maybe get you there.

Cheers


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## buttburner (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi bud


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## buttburner (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi budDon’t worry about that opening!!Mine cooks just fine the way it is.What I did to help airflow was to raise the firegrate.Do this by taking the coal grates from the smoke chamber out. Put them in the firebox, but turn them 90 degrees forst, then you can lay them side by side in the firebox.This raises the fire in the box and it breathes much better. I take the 3rd grate and lay it the other way on the other 2 to make a square pattern and it helps hold the small coals.I can cook for hours and hours like this, no modding any of the vents.


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi,

Thanks for the post.

Is your OJLH the kind with the single triangular vent?

Thanks for the tip on the firebox.  I'd already done the same except I'd not laid the third rack across them as I made a couple of baskets.  One for charcoal that has an S pattern to try and extend the burn (minion) and one that is just a square that I can throw a chimney of charcoal in and then start throwing splits in.  Only issue with either is you have to use the top door to add to the fire as the basket blocks the side door.  Might consider an open end one for the wood splits and see if the side door can be used just so I can hold heat.

Apart from the calculator bugging me with numbers that don't match the smoker, I had a pretty hard time getting the grill hot to season it.  That prompted my looking into the design and the calculator.

When first got it I used charcoal and wood to try and season it.  Did not have the baskets then.  Just tried to keep everything where air could get to it and together not spread out.  Had the exhaust vent full open, inlet adjuster full open.  90 some degrees outside and just a light breeze.  With the junker gauge on the lid, the smoker going full bore, I could barely get it to 340 (once).  This was with the wind blowing to the inlet side and me finally using cardboard to fan through the inlet to stoke the temps up.   Most of the time it sat at 275 to 310 ish.  Comparing to the probe I had on the grate the gauge was an average of 72.5 degrees off (too high). 

It also used a lot of charcoal and wood to get it there. 

Next few days I tried different empty simulated cooks.  Nut shell, the exhaust end (tried with and without my dryer vent extension to the grate) would hover around 190 to 205 and no hotter.  Looking for 225 to 230.

So, did the inlet mod, put a deflector/tuning plates in (still working with them for placement etc) and ended up putting the exhaust grate extension back on in hopes of getting the temp to even.  Last burn charcoal to start with oak from then on.  After a long while I was finally able to get the exhaust end to be 225-230 at the grate, but the firebox side (used two grate probes) was 275-280 while doing this.  Seemed to use a lot of fuel to finally get the result.   Then did not hold extremely long and needed more wood.

Going to keep trying.

Thanks again for the post.


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## buttburner (Jun 20, 2014)

Yes it has that inlet ventI would get rid of the basket. I had one and it did not work well. The fire need to breathe. Use charcoal to start your fire then go to all wood. You can use a handful of charcoal when adding splits if they get low.But I had much better luck and a hotter fire without the basket, without trying to burn all charcoalThis pit is designed to burn wood.


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## buttburner (Jun 20, 2014)

Also don’t rely on the temp gauge. Get one that you can put on the cooking grate.


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## buttburner (Jun 20, 2014)

And I always tend the fire by opening the lid, not the side door. Once its off a running that door never gets opened.


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi,

That is interesting about the basket! 

Last burn was a chimney of charcoal and then just oak from then on.  Just seemed to use a lot of wood trying to get everything hot enough and stay hot.  Still learning and figuring out the smoker so maybe don't have a concept on that.  I have cooked a rack of ribs (exhaust end) on it and a brisket at the same time (firebox end).  Cooked the ribs all the way on it, but got frustrated with the temps not staying up (was not yo-yoing the vents around, just making small adjustments and adding fuel) and pulled the brisket after 4 hours, wrapped it and put it in the oven to cook the rest of the way.  Moved the ribs to the firebox end to finish them out as the exhaust end was too low.  Both ended up being very good.  As I said, still trying to learn how to work this smoker correctly.  Not cooked anything in about two weeks now though so having withdrawals.  Nothing on a good sale in the ads.

Yes, that gauge is pretty useless.  I contacted the company to see if it was adjustable, but the person I got was less than helpful and could not answer my question.  Thought it would be of use if I could calibrate it to be approx. the exhaust end grate temp.  I've been using digital temp probes stuck through the end of a potato on each end of the smoker to get grate temps.  I'd like to get some good gauges and mount them lower in the door to see if I could get some accuracy.  Just can't afford it at the moment. 

The other thing I wondered about was the drain tube.  I have seen smoke come out of the tube at the bottom while doing a general burn on the smoker.  I wondered if this should be at least plugged?  There are no threads on mine for a cap or ball valve so last burn I stuck a piece of wadded up tin foil in it.  Don't know if it did anything, but with all the thing about sealing up the doors and stopping the leaks this seems like a pretty big one. 

Thanks again for the posts!  I'll try the basketless deal and see if I have better luck.  Now just need to find a good brisket or spares on sale............


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## buttburner (Jun 20, 2014)

One thing I have found is be patient and let the pit warm up good and stabilize. From the time I light it until I put food on it might take 2 hours.
I have ¼’ tuning plates so that may be why it works better for me if I wait until everything heats up real good.
Then the temps don’t bounce around as much. When the temp starts to fade about 10 degrees I just add another preheated (important) stick (not too big, important too, maybe the diameter of a tennis ball ) it takes about 45 mins before adding another one. This is with hickory, type of wood makes a difference too


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks for that info!  Very useful!

How much do you usually put in (charcoal and or wood) to get things warmed up?

I watched Lang's video and so have the top door open, the cook chamber open and the exhaust full open.  I did one chimney of charcoal and three oak logs about fist diameter and probably 15 inches long to start.  I let them burn pretty good with all open to burn the bark they had on them.  Then I closed the cook chamber and left the firebox top door open and side door open.  This drafted some through the cook chamber.  The wood was not coals at this point is why I left the doors open.  Once the wood was most of the way coals and glowing I put a couple of pieces of oak on that was probably 3x5 on the end and 8 inches long.  I let that light pretty well and get a good burn going, but it was still wood, if that makes sense, when I closed the firebox top door.  I kept the firebox side door open and from that point was trying to heat up the cook chamber good. 

I probably did not leave it long enough and I did not really keep up with exactly how long I waited, but it seemed a long while.  Temp on exhaust end was still too low.  Tried the Lang deal of propping the door slightly open to draft in more.  Made a little difference, but not much.  Ended up stirring the wood and coals around and adding another piece of oak about the same size.  Not sure how long to wait for the new piece of wood to burn or how far it should burn before closing the lid.  Oh, and beyond the initial three pieces to start the fire, all the rest of the wood I have taken the bark off.

Anyway, that is what I did.

I really appreciate the tips etc. and your taking the time to post.

On the 1/4" tuning plates, I've been thinking something like that might help.  My tuning plates are just the home depot 16g, I believe, 18 x 6 sheets.  I have them propped in except for the first ones.  Those I bent the first plate and bolted it in using the existing bolts.  Tried to get the opening closer to the calculator opening requirement.  The next plate is angled off of that with a couple of tack welds holding it together and then the next is right off of that one and tack welded on to the previous plate.  Was trying to force the heated air further into the chamber before it had a chance to rise.

Funnily, may have been just a fluke and just happened to get to that temp as it took so long, but I got my best temp exhaust end by putting another plate on the exhaust end with a 1" gap from the end of the chamber.  Another 1/2" gap from it and then a third another 1/2 gap from it.  Seems strange, but guess they added mass and the hope was that they would catch some of the heat/air turbulence at the end of the grill and delay it there making that end hotter.  As I said, who knows if it was a true deal.  Waiting on the next cook to see if it repeats as I don't want to keep wasting fuel just doing empty burns.

Anyway, been wondering about adding mass that would retain heat.  I don't have ready access to 1/4 plate so been wondering about maybe some sort of brick or ceramic type deal that would retain heat.  Something to look into.


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## james1nc (Jun 20, 2014)

Not sure what to tell you here ''not much help'' I also have the OKJLH and since I raised my firebox grate about 4'' added a charcoal basket I don't have any problem getting my smoker up past 275-300 . before adding my truning plate my temps in the CC would vary 50-60 deg from end to end the turning plate has them pretty close within 10 deg.. Not sure about the 2 hours to get temps 225 since that's what I do 90% of my smoking at,  mine reaches that in less than 30 min. I also added the down pipe for exhaust


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## buttburner (Jun 20, 2014)

Im not saying it takes 2 hours to get to cooking temp. I am saying I like to let it go and warm up and stabilize before putting wood on and usually let it sit about 2 hours before doing that. I am I could put it on before that.  And that is with wood.
I usually cook between 275-300


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## dockman (Jun 20, 2014)

My OKJLH takes a long time to warm up but once there it holds 225-250 easily. My tuning plates are gapless  from FB to a little over half way across CC then have another plate with small gap and my pit temps hold less then 5 degrees difference from side to side. I tried putting small gaps all across but FB side ran way to hot.


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## dockman (Jun 20, 2014)

I also decreased the size of my FB to CC opening and changed exhaust to be all the same size as the pipe welded in the CC. I do feel the inlet is to small so I run it with door open until temp comes up then shut door and adjust accordingly. I did trim inlet opening so it would be as big as it can be


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

james1nc said:


> Not sure what to tell you here ''not much help'' I also have the OKJLH and since I raised my firebox grate about 4'' added a charcoal basket I don't have any problem getting my smoker up past 275-300 . before adding my truning plate my temps in the CC would vary 50-60 deg from end to end the turning plate has them pretty close within 10 deg.. Not sure about the 2 hours to get temps 225 since that's what I do 90% of my smoking at,  mine reaches that in less than 30 min. I also added the down pipe for exhaust


Thanks for the post.

I raised my firebox grate using the supplied grates I just put them cross ways to get more height like ButtBurner did.  Seems to help.  I go in and use a piece of rebar through the inlet to move the ash around and stop ash build up (my OJLH does not have the ash drawer I've seen on some smokers that look similar).  I've been thinking about seeing what I could come up with to raise the grate just a bit higher to help flow as the cook goes on.  Maybe some bolts through the grates to raise it up or perhaps get a small piece of angle and weld some legs on.  Don't want to go too high though as want air under, but also around the sides etc. to keep things going.

Your post adds support to my thought I need to work on the tuning plates.  I've seen the same 50 degree variance or so.  How thick are your tuning plates?

I have the thought that mine are just too thin to be doing an adequate job of radiant heating to even things out and they are just working with flowing heat as it where.


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

Wow ButtBurner!  I'd be happy with a consistent 225-230


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

Dockman said:


> My OKJLH takes a long time to warm up but once there it holds 225-250 easily. My tuning plates are gapless from FB to a little over half way across CC then have another plate with small gap and my pit temps hold less then 5 degrees difference from side to side. I tried putting small gaps all across but FB side ran way to hot.


Great pic!  What thickness of metal are you using?  I was only able to get the little sheets from Home Depot that I think were 16g.   Worth at least my trying to space them like yours though.  My plate from the opening onward looks pretty much the same as yours.  What I did was bend the first 18x6 piece to get an angle and then removed the top four bolts holding the cook chamber and firebox together.  My plate attaches using the four bolts, but the bottom two are right at the angled bend.  From there it goes solid on.  Just measured it and the plate extends solid from the side of the cook chamber only 13 inches out.  I'll see if I can post pictures of everything I have so far.

If you don't mind my asking, how far do your plates extend from the side into the chamber solid?  Also, what is your gap from the solid plate to the single plate?  Width of the single plate?

I guess while I'm being nosy, how did you do the exhaust pipe and where did you find it?  I've not been able to find the tubing the right size and material.  I tried the home stores and auto part places, but no luck.  Right now I have a piece of aluminum dryer duct in place, but that isn't ideal.

I kick myself because I ordered a cover from the manufacturer and considered ordering another exhaust pipe and sharing ship.  Was just too cheap and did not want to spend the $35 or whatever it was for the pipe.  Of course now to order it would be the $35 plus the full whack on ship!


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

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Don't know if you can see it with the sun etc., but here is the plate on the firebox end. 













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 is on the other side.  1" off the exhaust side wall and then the other two plates are 1/2" apart.  I'd still like to get it closer in temp as this set up is still to wide a range from side to side.  You can also see my cheesy dryer vent in the pic













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 for grins, here is the inlet mod.  The painted/welded round nub you see at the bottom left is actually my first attempt welded back up and not the original adjuster arm attachment.  My first attempt I flipped the plate and thought I'd put the adjuster bolt at the bottom.  Well, not only did my effort scrape the bottom of the arc as it moved, but it also did not give me very much increase in inlet size.  Then it dawned on me to move the adjuster up to the top area.  More movement the way the damper plate arcs and gives more inlet volume. 













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 it is most of the way open.  It holds pretty well as I added a spring and washer to the nut on the back of the pivot, but I need to tighten it a smidge more.  Either way, much more inlet volume.  Only down side is that now the damper will pivot so far that the side door will not open if you have the inlet adjusted all the way open.  Not an issue for me as I'm loading the firebox from the top lid.  If I do need to open that door, simple enough to close the vent from full open to about half way open and the door works no problem as the damper is out of the way.


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## dockman (Jun 20, 2014)

May plates are 26" over from CC then a 2-1/2" gap to last plate which is 4" wide! My plates are 17" long.


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## hillingdoner (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks for the info!  How thick are the plates? 

Just wondering as it might be mine are too thin to do much good.


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## dockman (Jun 20, 2014)

I have some 3/16" and some 1/4"


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## daveomak (Jun 20, 2014)

Just a suggestion or 2.....   The flex duct...  raise it up about 3-4" above the food grate... the grate may be blocking air flow....    
The air inlet to the Fire Box.....   Add a second air inlet about across from the FB/CC opening....   That will allow for adding air flow to the CC without adding air to the fire....  When you get familiar with that set up, adjusting CC temps will be easier and it should reduce fuel consumption....  and the secondary air will help to burn off any creosote from incomplete combustion.....














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## hillingdoner (Jun 23, 2014)

Thanks for the posts!  And, sorry for another huge post from me. 

Here is the latest for those that may be interested.

First off, moved the plates closer to what you have Dockman, although my "floating" end plate is 6" wide instead of 4".

I put a chimney of lit kingsford charcoal in and then put my oak on top of that.  Couple of fairly large pieces to get some good embers etc.  I let the oak burn down with the firebox door open and everything else open.  I then closed the cook chamber and started drafting through to heat it up.  Firebox top door still open as wood had burned down, but not to ember stage. 

Here is the start of where I realize I need to work some more using wood only for fuel and learn more what to do.  Got the wood burned so that when stoked it broke apart into smaller chunks.  Had a black, ashy on the edges appearance.  Good heat and flame coming off so I close the big door and have just the side door open.

I get heat in the cook chamber and white smoke.  Leave it like this for approx. 30 min and then check the temp.  I'm now within 3 degrees end to end although temps are not that high.  I open the firebox and see that the wood is charcoal looking (like lump charcoal from the bag), smoke coming off and no flame.  A few seconds later a flame pops up on the charcoal looking wood.  I let it burn a minute, try moving it around so that it gets more air (my assumption of need), I now have a good flame going on it so I close the door. 

Sadly, don't remember now if I had the side door still open at this point or if I had it closed and the inlet adjusted full open.

Anyway, white smoke (this is seasoned oak burning), temps not changing much, holding around 199 both ends.

Trying to get the temps up, I thought perhaps I needed a bit more fuel by now so I then add another piece of oak.  Prob 3x5" and 8 inches long.  Leave the top door open until the wood catches and is burning pretty well.  Close the top door, side door is now closed for sure with the inlet open wide and exhaust has been open wide this whole time.

I get lots of white smoke.  Basically it seems like instead of continuing to burn a flame in the firebox once closed, it instead allows the wood to smolder and produce a lot of white smoke.  Open the main firebox lid after about 30 minutes and the added piece of wood is black and smoking, no flame.  With lid open a few seconds the piece of wood then pops into flame and burns. 

So, the moving coals around, adding wood, organizing so I believe I can get the best air flow, etc. etc. continues for a few hours.  Max temp reached side to side is 217 with a variance of only a degree or two side to side.  That is good.  The bad is, continued white smoke and the temp is too low overall. 

In the firebox I end up with white ash, very few glowing embers, some charcoal looking wood chunks just like I have lump added and a situation where it pops into flame when the door is opened.  I pull up an article on the net saying that perhaps too much fuel is being used by the poster so I give that a try and remove a larger piece I had in the box and leave only two pieces about fist size in diameter and 10 or so inches long in the box.  This does not change anything and I don't seem to be getting a nice glowing ember bed, but just white ash and black chunks.

At this point, have to admit I said screw it and got out the charcoal basket I made with the S pattern in it and thought I'd give it a try.  Loaded it with Kingsford, put a few small chunks of wood in it, dropped the basket into the firebox and put a lit chimney of coals on the end of it closest to the cook chamber.  Pushed the basket over toward the inlet, kept the inlet full open and closed the firebox.  This ended up being the key for me.  With adjustment I could either hold the temp at 225 range straight across or if I opened the inlet so that the edge of the damper was even with the corner of the full open spot it would hold at 253.  Amazing thing was it held this temp without dropping for 4 hours.  Nice clean light exhaust.

Positives, perhaps learned a little, progress with getting temps even, got to test out my home made minion charcoal basket and got a brisket out of the deal when all said and done.

As far as being a stick burner and using just wood for fuel, I have a *LOT* to learn.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

DaveOmak- that is interesting about the vent.  Also the comment on the exhaust.  Have to admit my dryer vent tube is just bent and propped in.  I'm not much for it as it does not look that great, but have not found tubing that was not galvanized as yet to use instead to make it cleaner.   I did think about knocking it out of the way during the cook and seeing what results I got at the grate temp wise and flow change, but had the brisket on when I did and I did not want to loose any temp opening the cook chamber door. 

Been through so much fuel on this thing learning and testing, but may try one more burn and see what working with and without the exhaust extension actually does for me now.   Would be interesting too to see if raising it as you suggest would give positive results on flow (easier heat build) while maintaining grate temp even.

Thanks again everyone!


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## buttburner (Jun 23, 2014)

As you have found out you need to maintain a flame. When you see white smoke there will not be a flame in the firebox. Peek in the lid and you will see the flame appear, then the white smoke disappears.One thing to try is smaller diameter splits, and make sure they are preheated before addingSmaller diameter spits ignite and stay lit a lot easier. You will find the perfect size


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## hillingdoner (Jun 23, 2014)

That is a good tip.  I did use a couple of rather large initial logs/splits.  Maybe smaller and less would be a better deal. 

Considered giving it a go (smaller pieces and try without and then moved elbow exhaust) just a little while ago.  Feel bad for the neighbor though as they had to have their patio door closed all day yesterday with me smoking that brisket and I see their door open again.

Went out to at least clean the ash out of the smoker and heard their door close.  Don't want to be inconsiderate so may wait a day or two before further testing.


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## james1nc (Jun 24, 2014)

hillingdoner said:


> That is a good tip.  I did use a couple of rather large initial logs/splits.  Maybe smaller and less would be a better deal.
> 
> Considered giving it a go (smaller pieces and try without and then moved elbow exhaust) just a little while ago.  Feel bad for the neighbor though as they had to have their patio door closed all day yesterday with me smoking that brisket and I see their door open again.
> 
> Went out to at least clean the ash out of the smoker and heard their door close.  Don't want to be inconsiderate so may wait a day or two before further testing.


I have a big chop saw and I cut my logs in different lengths, I have from 4'' 6'' and 10'' pieces of oak . the only time I use the 10'' is when I will be away from my smoker for awhile  because it will give me two good hours of heat unattended .  Just keep playing with it and it will come to you . it took me awhile to get mine where I know how the get the fire going where I wanted it .


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## hillingdoner (Jun 24, 2014)

For those that are still interested or following this rambling topic here is a bit more of my quest to get things right or at least close.

*First off, a big thank you to all who have posted.*   The info has not fallen on deaf ears and I've made adjustments and learned from them.  Anyway, thanks.

Okay, so here goes.  Neighbor made the mistake of closing their patio door so I got the smoker going on a test run.

I have the tuning plates set up like Dockman.  My plates are just the 16g 18"x6" pieces you can buy from Home Depot in their metal department.  Sprayed with Pam and run through a few burn cycles.  I got good results I thought out of my old set-up, but using the new positioning has pushed the heat further into the cook chamber closer to the exhaust end which is what I wanted.  

On this run I also tried using a little smaller pieces of wood started with one chimney of Kingsford.  I also took out the dryer vent exhaust extension down to the grate.  I expected to loose temp on the exhaust end grate.  This proved to be not so in my instance. 

I ran my digi gauge probes through a potato and positioned one on either end of the cook chamber.  The gauges ran anywhere from exactly the same temperature to 7 degrees difference at a maximum.  I got the temps up to 253 (exhaust) and 250 (firebox) and they held there until I adjusted the smoker to try and get more to 225 - 230 range.  The temps at the grate held within the 0 - 7 degree variance range during the entire process and WITHOUT the exhaust extension to the grate.  Close enough for me!













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Smoker cooling a little here, but you see the left (exhaust end) and right (firebox end) temps at the grate.  223 and 219.  Only 4 degrees out here which was about the average.  Often the temp would be exactly the same or within a degree or two as it idled along.













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 Here is where I had the probes,   The right one is turned a little more to the corner because I snagged the wire just before snapping the shot.  I had them both pointing the same way.  Hopefully you can see the plates through the grate.


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## hillingdoner (Jun 24, 2014)

Part two of above post:  So, at least for me, conclusion so far is I like where the tuning plates are positioned and, at least for me, I'm not going to bother with the exhaust extension down to the grate.  Takes up cook area and for the variance I've averaged now, it just does not seem needed as I have good temp distribution to the grate on the exhaust end now thanks to the tuning plates pushing heat that way.  I was concerned that I might not be getting much smoke on the firebox end, but when I opened the cook chamber door the smoke within was even throughout so I think I'm good.

Here is where I have the most to learn and practice.  Still having issues with white smoke and my wood going out in the firebox causing it to smolder instead of burn. 

I'm in agreement that I'm* still *probably using too big a pieces of wood and perhaps too many even though I'm only using two at a go.  After reading the above posts and re reading the stickburning 101 this seems like this could still be an issue for me.  Also, in the 101 the wood size is given at 1 to 1.5 inches in diameter.  I picked up firewood so mine is much bigger around than thist.  I too used my chop saw to cut them down shorter, but I am thinking that perhaps I need to see about splitting them down to smaller diameter.   Not looking forward to that at all.

I am also wondering seriously about DaveOmak's post about another vent.  It seems like my fire is starving.  Either too much wood or still not enough air coming in.  To keep the wood burning I had to leave the firebox side door open.  If I closed the door and just ran the inlet damper all the way open, the fire would go out fairly quickly and I'd get billowing white smoke out of the exhaust.  If I opened the top lid to the firebox the wood would flame up again and if I opened the side door before closing the top lid it would stay burning nicely.  Smoke out of the exhaust this way was more of a vapor.  I could tell something was coming out of the exhaust, but it was clear.  Only issue though with doing this is that heat would build up back to the 250 range and potentially climbing instead of 225-230 and I found it difficult to use the entire door to adjust the heat down.  I was not much for having the side door open with the chance of hot coals maybe falling out also. 

So, that is where I am.  I know it just isn't probably this difficult and maybe I over think things, but that is how I am.  Here is a few more pics.













DSCF8646.JPG



__ hillingdoner
__ Jun 24, 2014





 is what I would get as soon as I closed the side door and just had the inlet damper open all the way.  Flame would go out on the wood and the smoke would go from clear, where you could hardly tell anything was coming out, to starting to smoke like this or thicker.  This is pic the smoke is pretty light compared to most times where it was really white and billowy, but by now the wood had dwindled down a bit.













DSCF8649.JPG



__ hillingdoner
__ Jun 24, 2014





 of the firebox right after the smoke picture above.  Just two, what I thought were small, chunks of wood with the flame out.  Side door closed and damper all the way open.


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## daveomak (Jun 24, 2014)

hillingdoner said:


> For those that are still interested or following this rambling topic here is a bit more of my quest to get things right or at least close.
> 
> *First off, a big thank you to all who have posted.*  The info has not fallen on deaf ears and I've made adjustments and learned from them.  Anyway, thanks.
> 
> ...





HD, morning.....    Thank you......   It is very refreshing to see someone try and learn the intricacies of operating a SFB w/tuning plates, and have success....   A lot of thought went into that design by some "BBQ GEEK" that wanted adjustable temps across the cooking surface...

*BRAVO*


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## hillingdoner (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks for that DaveOmak.  Now I just need to get that fire issue cured. 

From just what I've seen so far, I need to have the wood continue to burn/be in flame to get the "invisible" smoke or "blue" smoke that is required for a good cook.  I'm going to try to make the pieces of wood I have smaller in diameter, but the same length.  My only issue is that I would think I'd reach the point of diminishing returns as if they are too small I may end up having to add to the fire continuously. 

Thoughts still on the issue of getting enough air in.  Way I see it I have two options and one that is probably not an option. 

1) get another vent of some kind and install it around the area you mentioned sort of across from the firebox outlet .  I don't have room in the door so would be above in the top "half" of the firebox.  This would give me a quasi OJ smoker that I've seen at Home Depot that has a large wheel with two inlets into the firebox instead of the single I have on the Lowes one.  If I install an inlet in this area I have a few concerns though.  The first is that it would be above the fire.  So, would I get any benefit from it as far as increasing air to keep the fire going?  Also, I worry that it would end up just being a draw vent that would perhaps increase the air sucked in the bottom inlet and then just venting my heat and smoke out the top one.

2)  Somehow increase the exhaust size closer to what is shown in the pit calculator and see if I can get more "draw" from the exhaust end.  Issue with this is it might be more work than my abilities are capable of.  Source for good material in the size needed is one issue and my mediocre at best welding skills another.  Only have an ancient flux 70 amp welder I got from Sam's back in the 80's!

3) this one is probably not an option.  With my grates cross ways in the fire box, the base of the fire is now raised so that the bottom of the coals sit approx. an inch from the top of the inlet hole.  In other words, most of my inlet air is coming in under the fire.  I have moved the fire around and made sure to have space so air is not trapped under the coals/fire, but I wonder if this is squeezing off my available air that would keep things going.  I could put the grate back long ways in the chamber, but then there is very little room for the ash to drop away so that is why I say it is probably not an option.

Puzzling.  Any thoughts or experiences with the above?  With the loads of people using these things with good results and the desired "blue/clear" smoke I know it is probably down to my not understanding something or doing something wrong.  The process continues.....

As a note for those interested, this is the second cook/burn where I have plugged the drain tube in the cook chamber with foil while running.  I'd occasionally see smoke coming out of this otherwise and thought it might be acting as a siphon for heat and smoke.  Not sure of the overall effect if any, but thought I'd mention.


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## daveomak (Jun 24, 2014)

Skifreak made this mod to his air inlet....  The adjustable plate, on the top half of the butterfly valve, worked pretty good for controlling the upper air while still being able to control the air to the fire....   not exactly sure of your configuration....   but....  I thought this was a pretty ingenious mod...  It could be modded to an adjuster on both halves of the BF inlet...














DualAirinletsSkiFreak.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jun 24, 2014


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## hillingdoner (Jun 24, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> Skifreak made this mod to his air inlet.... The adjustable plate, on the top half of the butterfly valve, worked pretty good for controlling the upper air while still being able to control the air to the fire.... not exactly sure of your configuration.... but.... I thought this was a pretty ingenious mod... It could be modded to an adjuster on both halves of the BF inlet...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is what is weird with these smokers.  As best I can tell there is a variance on the same smoker, but has a different letter designation at the end of the part number.  Seems to be the one I got might be a Lowes exclusive (just a feeling) as the Home Depot one has the vent like you just pictured.  Mine only has a single vent and I believe the door is smaller potentially too although not measured to verify. 













DSCF8631.JPG



__ hillingdoner
__ Jun 24, 2014





This is what the (now flipped and modded) damper and door look like on my smoker.  The seam for the two firebox halves is not much higher up from the top of this picture so I don't believe I'd have room to add an inlet there so would have to be above the seam.  That might be too high though.

As I said, I believe the two models are the same smoker, just a different firebox door/vent arrangement.  Going off memory, but I believe my smoker measured out at 40 inches long for the cook chamber and 20 inch diameter.  The fire box I seem to remember measured 18 inches long and 20 inch diameter.

Vent inlet area I had stock was only 7.5 inches, but with the mod I now have a bit over 12 inches.


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## daveomak (Jun 24, 2014)

A small air inlet above the door should work....  That opening need be only about 3-4 square inches....


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## frizzlefry (Jun 24, 2014)

I had problems keeping the temp up after a few hours in my OK Joe.  I finally figured out that ash was  building up under the fire grate blocking air flow.  I need to get some kind of metal shovel to clean it out or build a fire basket or raise the grate.


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## james1nc (Jun 24, 2014)

Frizzlefry said:


> I had problems keeping the temp up after a few hours in my OK Joe.  I finally figured out that ash was  building up under the fire grate blocking air flow.  I need to get some kind of metal shovel to clean it out or build a fire basket or raise the grate.


I had the same problem I used 4-6'' bolts and raised my grate .no more problems with ash build up


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## buttburner (Jun 25, 2014)

Frizzlefry said:


> I had problems keeping the temp up after a few hours in my OK Joe.  I finally figured out that ash was  building up under the fire grate blocking air flow.  I need to get some kind of metal shovel to clean it out or build a fire basket or raise the grate.


Turn the fire grate 90 degrees in the firebox and it will raise it enough for good air flow. Then take one of the fire grates out of the smoke chamber and lay it next to it so the whole firebox is covered with grates.I can cook for 12 hours that way, still room for the ash


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## hillingdoner (Jun 25, 2014)

ButtBurner said:


> Turn the fire grate 90 degrees in the firebox and it will raise it enough for good air flow. Then take one of the fire grates out of the smoke chamber and lay it next to it so the whole firebox is covered with grates.I can cook for 12 hours that way, still room for the ash


This is how I have mine.  Every once in a while I move the ash around through the inlet hole just to be sure it is not piling up and blocking air flow.  Not had a problem in that regard with them sideways as ButtBurner says.   Still plenty of room.

DaveOmak - decided this AM, before I break down and add another inlet I'm going to try another burn with even smaller pieces of wood and see if that helps.  Perhaps my firewood is still too large in diameter to keep the burn going.  I keep coming back to (in my mind) the fact that others seem to be getting the desired results with temp and blue/clear smoke without doing anything, but maybe throw in some tuning plates to even out the temps.  Supports the feeling that I really must be doing something wrong in my basic process.

I'd think if there were a basic flaw in the fundamental design of the pit that there would be loads of threads with common place additions of vents etc.  I have a tendency to make things harder than they really are 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






    Then again, not sure how many OJ smokers on the board are like mine with the single inlet in the door rather than the dual round inlet adjuster set up.

Interesting to me was this AM I looked at the Yoder site.  Looks basically like the same smoker, but more heavy duty (would not mind having one, but can't afford $1000 more).  The door on the side of the firebox is larger and it has the dual inlet round adjuster as well.  Hmmmm.  Guess I should start calling myself IHOP being as I waffle back and forth.

I did have a look/measure last evening to see the available room if I did add a vent.  Just really don't see room right above the door due to the seam for the two halves being there.  So, vent above the door would have to be a pretty good deal higher than the fire so again wonder about it becoming less a source of inlet air and more an outlet vent for my heat and smoke. 

I could potentially fit a very small round inlet to the side of the door towards the top corner.  Probably and estimated 3" diameter round hole max.

Then that other thought popped up again of maybe putting a vent on the opposite side of the firebox from the door.  Basically under the cook chamber where the firebox half moon shape hangs down.  Bit of a pain to adjust anything, but there should be room there and I guess you could always add a rod to extend out to make adjustments easier.

Anyone any thoughts on this last idea?  Do you think it would cause too much of a cross breeze and just blow everything out of the side vents?  Cause any issues with placement as it would be under where the inlet to the cook chamber is for the heat and smoke?


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## buttburner (Jun 25, 2014)

Don’t add any vents. Totally unnecessary with this cooker. Learn to manage your fire and you will be fineI promise!!!


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## hillingdoner (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks for the reply ButtBurner.

Yes, going to try a few more burns and see if I can crack it finally before doing anything drastic.  At the moment the wood keeps going out and just putting out white smoke.  Don't seem to be able to get that nice glowing embers with a flame burning clean all the while. 

I purchased some seasoned oak and some seasoned hickory at the same time so I'm going to see what I get with the hickory as I already cut that into smaller pieces. 

So far I've been using one chimney of Kingsford, dumping it in the grate when most of the top bricks are turning gray at the edges and I have a nice yellow/orange glow from the lower coals.  Then I put the wood on with everything open and let it light good.  Just don't seem to be able to keep it going from there once I close everything except the inlet damper full open and the exhaust stack full open.  Dies out and smokes a lot, but pops back into flame when I open the main firebox door.

One somewhat successful burn so far has been with pretty much all charcoal in a basket with a few small chunks of wood thrown in.  Would rather just use straight wood as that is what I read this smoker is supposed to be designed for.


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## buttburner (Jun 26, 2014)

Im loosing track. Do you have tuning plates in? I had a similar problem and discovered I had too many plates so the pit was not breathing. Took some out that were toward the chimney end and it worked much much better.Also make sure your sticks are small, golf ball to tennis diameter and they are warmed up real real good before throwing them onI sometimes crack the firebox vent door after putting a new split on for a little more oxygen to the fireAnd always leave the exhaust stack wide open


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## hillingdoner (Jun 26, 2014)

Good morning!

Yes, I have tuning plates.  Would hate to mess with them as I have the smoker so even at the grate, but is worth looking into.  Maybe could do without one.  I have pictures of how mine is set up plate wise in some previous posts.

Thanks for the big tip on the wood size.  That is potentially a big problem for me.  I bought wood from a firewood supplier (super cheap that way).  We are talking split logs about 18" long and probably as big a diameter as a grapefruit (not even round size, but say 6" dia on average).  What I did was to de bark the oak and then cut it into shorter lengths and that is what I've been using.  Lengths average probably 8 to 10 inches.

I now think I probably need to get a way to cut the diameter of the wood down.  At least by half, but probably more like into a third the size on each piece by the sound of it.  I did buy a maul, but the wood is hard as a rock and I guess I don't have a big enough hammer. 

If the neighbor does not have their door open today I may try another burn (using a lot of fuel trying to learn this thing, but hopefully worth it lol) with smaller wood started with a chimney of Kingsford and see where I am with it.  If it still seems like I'm starving out for air to the fire I'll try removing an end plate and see how my grate temps are impacted. 

Will post back for all those still interested.

Thanks to all those who posted to help.  Your input and advise is truly appreciated.


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## buttburner (Jun 26, 2014)

tThere is your problem. You wood is way too big in diameter.  Get a 8 lb sledge and a splitting wedge. You will use the heck out of it, you need a way to deal with splitting wood


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## hillingdoner (Jun 26, 2014)

Bought a splitting wedge at Harbor Freight, but regular ball peen hammer not much good with it.  Just puts a little dent in the wood.

Dug around as I thought I had a bit of a shortened sledge that I used to use ages ago when straightening sprung truck bumper arms.  Found it just a bit ago.  Not ideal as far as length and impact, but better than the small ball peen I had I hope.

Sun blazing, but going to get out there and see about splitting some of those oak pieces I cut down to a more manageable size.  Might even get the smoker going again if the next door neighbor does not have their windows/door open. 

Will post up the results to keep all updated and hopefully help anyone else having some issues.


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## buttburner (Jun 27, 2014)

Just get yourself a full sized 8 lb sledge and be done with itIt will serve you well.


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## hillingdoner (Jun 27, 2014)

Did get the wood split smaller yesterday afternoon.  Ended up using an axe.  Will have to get the bigger hammer.  Axe worked okay on splitting the wood I'd already debarked and cut down.

Lit the smoker and did a few hour burn. 

First off, decided I had way too much initial charcoal.  I'd watched a YouTube video showing what looked like the same smoker.  Guy had some Kingsford in the firebox and then dumped a full chimney on top of that to do a minion.  Then put his wood on etc.

In my instance I felt that the charcoal I had when done this way was too much so I scooped most of it out and put it in my ash bin.  Seemed more like it was aiding in cutting off my airflow even though I moved it around to get open spots to get air moving.  Left in probably a bit over half a chimney of coals.

Splits were about 8 or so inches long and golf ball size or slightly larger diameter.  Got them going on the coals good and closed the door with the damper full open.  Still had issues with it going out and white smoking.  Moved the wood around and to various spots in the chamber to see if flow could be improved.  Worked off and on.  Seemed to keep going (just two splits on at this point from the start) for a while and then would go out. 

I moved the turning plates to get more gaps to see if that was an issue.  Did not seem to be any difference. 

I kept playing with placement of the wood/coals with mixed results.  Seemed like the splits burned down pretty quickly so I added a piece that I had warming on the top of the firebox.  Got it going good and then closed the top door.  Not too long and it had gone out again and white smoke. 

Got to thinking back to that smoker builder calculator.  According to size as best as I could tell the inlet needs 15-16 square inches, the firebox to cook chamber needs 45 or so inches and the stack needs to be something like 34 inches (sorry going off memory).  I know my mod to the inlet gives 12 square inches and that with my diverter/tuning plate in I have 46 square inches at the firebox/cook chamber so just wondered about the stack length as I have a note here that the stack is only 23" from the factory.  So, rigged a straight piece of compressed dryer vent hose into the top of the stack that extended the stack 11 inches. 

Might be fooling myself, but seemed to work pretty well.  Had longer spans where the wood stayed lit and I had the correct clear/light smoke.  The instances of the fire going out on the wood were a lot less it seemed.  Temps in the cook chamber were up into the 275 range fairly quickly.   I was actually able to close my inlet vent slightly to try and tune the temps more into the 230 range.

The wood itself seemed to burn down quickly though.  Maybe I've gone too far the other way and the golf ball size diameter 8" long is maybe a bit too small in length and burns too fast.  Should maybe have more like a 12 to 14 inch length.   Also just adding one piece at a go once started so wonder if I should add two with the short length.

I wish I'd have actually timed it as it seemed like it did not take long before temps were dropping rapidly at the grate probe on the exhaust end and I'd look in the firebox and the wood had burned down to just black coals and I needed to play a bit of catch up getting a new piece of wood in and lit good to get temps back up. 

Will keep working at it!


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