# Dry cure question



## Live_Laugh_Smoke (Apr 12, 2018)

Hey guys,
I'm new to curing, and have just put my first belly in a vac seal with the dry cure on it.
My question is in regards to the cure #1 amounts. I measured everything up, glazed the belly with a 50/50 of honey and dark maple syrup, and then proceeded to add the dry cure mix. Problem is that I lost some of it on the cutting board and when getting on the sides, and since it's pre-measured, wouldn't the loss of measured dry cure affect the results?

I can't imagine anyone gets ALL the dry mix on the belly and into their bags, so how do you guys deal with this? Add a bit more cure assuming you'll have loss?

Any help is appreciated,
Thanks!


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## ron forst (Apr 12, 2018)

Dont sweat it, after a few days as moisture begins to be pulled out the cure will mix with the juice and by the time you are done will basically be bathing in the cure mixture. Good Luck!


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## atomicsmoke (Apr 12, 2018)

Did you dump all the "fallout" in the vac bag?

My technique: i only apply dry cure on one side since i use skin-on belly. I don't bother with the sides. The cure will not penetrate 7 inch of width so no point in doing that. I apply the cure up to 0.5" of the edges, carefullly slide the belly in the bag. As i do so i spread some of the cure on the edges. Whatever falls off stays in the bag.

For meats that are not flat i put them in the bag first then apply cure. A little tedious...


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (Apr 12, 2018)

Ok....I'll try that next time. I tried to get as much fall out from the board into the vac bag, but the recipe I was using had honey as step 1 to glaze the belly to provide a surface to stick, but then when I tried to get as much as possible fallout, it had dissolved in the honey maple syrup mixture and was very difficult to get all of it.

My recipe did call for 1 tsp of cure #1 for 5 lb belly, so I did add maybe an additional 1/4 tsp cure because I was anticipating this....

Hoping for the best, thanks for the help!


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## JohnsMyName (Apr 12, 2018)

As others have said, don't sweat it. I apply as evenly as I can in a roasting pan or other vessel to catch the stuff that falls off. Then after it goes in the vac bag. I like to fold over the top edge of the vac back so its rounded and not sharp when putting the meat in. I sprinkle the shake from the pan on each side (50/50) in the bag. Once the meats releases a little liquid it will get everywhere.  Also, don't forget to flip the meat every day or 2, it will help insure everything is even and happy.


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (Apr 12, 2018)

Thanks for all the tips!
This forum is amazing!


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## JohnsMyName (Apr 12, 2018)

You're welcome LLS!

One other tip, if your vacuum sealing, I'd get everything ready to go so that you can salt the meat, bag and vac as quick as possible. The salt will get the meat releasing liquid pretty quickly and as you know too much liquid makes sealing the vac bags a PITA.

Cheers!


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## SmokinAl (Apr 12, 2018)

Sounds to me like your all set, with the addition of the extra 1/4 tsp of cure, you should be fine.
I always put the belly in the bag first then reach in and spread the cure on each side.
That way everything gets into the bag.
Al


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (Apr 12, 2018)

Another good point, Thanks!, Ya I rubbed and Vac'd pretty quickly. I didn't fully vac though, I hit the seal button while leaving a small amount of air so I can get good circulation once liquid starts coming out of the meat. Our vac sealer has a Wet and dry setting, and I thought that if I let it go all the way it wouldn't allow all the melding in a couple days.

I did have to seal it 3 times though, some of the sugar and salt on inside made the most pain in sealing lol


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (Apr 12, 2018)

SmokinAl said:


> Sounds to me like your all set, with the addition of the extra 1/4 tsp of cure, you should be fine.
> I always put the belly in the bag first then reach in and spread the cure on each side.
> That way everything gets into the bag.
> Al


Well, I'l definitely report back how this one goes, but will be doing it a little different next time.

How long would you guys go?....6-7 days was in the recipe?
Maybe a little long to ensure cured properly, the fry test and water soak if needed?

Thanks again!


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## SmokinAl (Apr 12, 2018)

How thick is the belly?
I go 14 days for a 2" thick belly.
Al


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (Apr 12, 2018)

I think it's about 1.5 to 2"......seems my next weekend will not be a bacon delightful as I had anticipated. I mean, if I understand correctly, you can under cure, but can't over cure. The down side to over curing is too salty, which can be corrected with an ice bath soak?


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## atomicsmoke (Apr 12, 2018)

Best is to find the salt level you like (correlated to a salt amount in the cure). So you don't need to soak - even if you leave it in the bag longer than necessary.

Like Al, and many around here i cure for at least 2 weeks.


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## Lonzinomaker (Apr 12, 2018)

Check out this tutorial by Michael Ruhlman on curing bacon: http://ruhlman.com/2016/04/bacon-time/. 
I dry cure for at least 7 days and occasionally 9 days depending on my schedule.


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## JohnsMyName (Apr 12, 2018)

Not to derail the thread, but why is Ruhlman the king of curing? I bought his book and immediately regretted it. He knows way more than I do, so take my opinions with a grain of salt, but it really bothers me that he uses measurement instead of weight. Also his ratios are off from the status quo of every other book I have. I don’t have specific examples off the cuff, but remember reading and thinking to myself, “that’s not what every other printed source I have says??”. Anyone else feel that way?


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## atomicsmoke (Apr 12, 2018)

I agree Ruhlman doesn't seem to find accuracy important. One bacon recipe gives a certain amount of cure for a slab of bacon 3-5 lbs. Another one calls for almost 4x  the minimum pink salt required for skin on belly.

He also has a "lardo" recipe that (he says) can be done with belly (it can't)...with 1.87% cure#1!!!!!

I have his charcuterie book and use it for ideas but i do my own math when it comes to pink salt, salt and curing time (based on what i learn here).


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## daveomak (Apr 12, 2018)

I agree about Rhulman...   read his bio and determine IF you want to trust him when it comes to curing meats etc...

*Michael Carl Ruhlman* (born July 28, 1963) is an American author, home cook and entrepreneur.[1][2][3]

He has written 17 books including non-fiction, fiction, memoir, and books on cooking. He has co-authored nine books with American chefs.

*Contents*

1 Early life
2 Career
2.1 Television
2.2 Entrepreneurial endeavors

3 Bibliography
4 References
5 External links
*Early life*
Michael Carl Ruhlman was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and was educated at University School, a private boys' day school in Cleveland's suburbs, and at Duke University, from which he graduated in 1985.[_citation needed_]

*Career*
Ruhlman worked a series of odd jobs (including a brief stint at _The New York Times_) and traveled before returning to his hometown in 1991, to work for a local magazine.

While working at the magazine, Ruhlman wrote an article about his old high school and its new headmaster, which he expanded into his first book, _Boys Themselves: A Return to Single-Sex Education_ (1996).

For his second book, _The Making of a Chef_ (1997), Ruhlman enrolled in the Culinary Institute of America, taking a variety of classes but not graduating, to produce a first-person account—of the techniques, personalities, and mindsets—of culinary education at the prestigious chef's school.[4] The success of this book produced two follow-ups, _The Soul of a Chef_ (2000) and _The Reach of a Chef_ (2006).

Ruhlman has also collaborated with chef Thomas Keller to produce the cookbooks _The French Laundry Cookbook_ (1999), _Bouchon_ (2004), _Under Pressure_ (2008), and _Ad Hoc At Home_ (2009), _Bouchon Bakery_ (2012); with French chef Eric Ripert and Colombian artist Valentino Cortazar to produce the lavish coffee-table book _A Return to Cooking_ (2002); and with Michigan chef Brian Polcyn to produce _Charcuterie: The Craft of Salting, Smoking and Curing_ (2005) and _Salumi: The Craft of Italian Dry Curing_ (2012). In 2009 Ruhlman also collaborated with fellow Clevelander and _Iron Chef_ Michael Symon on Symon's first cookbook _Live to Cook_.

2007, he produced _The Elements of Cooking_ based on the structure of the classic grammar book _The Elements of Style_. The book includes essays about the importance of fundamentals in cooking such as heat, salt and stock, along with a reference guide to cooking terms. Much of the insight in the book is based on his previous food-related experiences at the Culinary Institute of America and from working with celebrity chefs.[_citation needed_]

2009, he published _Ratio: The Simple Codes Behind the Craft of Everyday Cooking_, a book that explores basic preparations—bread, pie dough, custards—and explains that knowing the proportions of the ingredients by weight can free users from strict adherence to recipes.[5]


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## atomicsmoke (Apr 13, 2018)

Rhulman (or author of any other curing recipes book) vs collective wisdom/experience of 110k SMF members?

I know what i choose


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## chopsaw (Apr 13, 2018)

atomicsmoke said:


> I have his charcuterie book and use it for ideas but i do my own math when it comes to pink salt, salt and curing time (based on what i learn here).



I never even thought about this , but I do the same . I used the pastrami recipe from the book , but adjusted the salt amount without question . I read and learn so much on here , it becomes habit . The pastrami was great so I edited the book to my amounts .


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## Bearcarver (Apr 13, 2018)

I cut my Bellies in Thirds before I cure & Smoke them.
I measure the proper amount of cure for each individual piece.
Then I spread the cure on each piece while it lays on a plate.
Then after i put the piece in it's bag, I wipe the remaining cure & sugar from the plate & throw it in the bag with the piece it belongs with.

Like This:
*Bacon (Extra Smoky)*


Bear


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (May 4, 2018)

Well....the bacon turned out really good, thanks again for all the help.
Cold smoked it for 10 Hrs with 100% apple pellets, and had tons of good smoke flavor. 

The only issues I've had though, is I can't seem to get it crispy without burning it.

Tried pan fry, oven, oven with lower temp, microwave.....nothing works well. Flavor is good, just can't crisp it. Maybe I should hot smoke next time?


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## Bearcarver (May 4, 2018)

Might be the Honey & Maple Syrup that's causing it to burn too easily.

Bear


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (May 4, 2018)

Hmmm.....so next time any suggestions for a cure recipe?
And how would one infuse maple syrup flavor?


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## Bearcarver (May 4, 2018)

Live_Laugh_Smoke said:


> Hmmm.....so next time any suggestions for a cure recipe?
> And how would one infuse maple syrup flavor?




I tried a number of times without satisfaction.
I tried Maple Syrup in cure, Maple Sugar in Cure, tried injecting the Syrup---Nothing but a waste of good Maple Syrup.
If you put it on later it will get sticky & burn in the pan.

I quit trying. If you want Maple Bacon, Heat some & pour it on when it's on your plate---Or Brush it on.

Some say it works for them, but I think it depends on what the word "Works" is. LOL

Bear


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## daveomak (May 4, 2018)

Bear has you covered....  It's the sugar that's burning...   I can only get 1% sugar in my bacon without it burning....


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## Live_Laugh_Smoke (May 4, 2018)

Awesome...thanks guys, so what's your goto cure recipe?


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## daveomak (May 4, 2018)

2% salt, 1% sugar, 1 grams cure#1 per pound.... 2 weeks in the refer...    cold smoke.....   bake in the oven ....  then coat with maple syrup for a glaze....  Bake until the syrup crystalizes..







	

		
			
		

		
	
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## goliath (May 22, 2018)

a good TIP for sealing the Vacc pack bags is to roll down the top a couple inches, it keeps everything clean so after the product is in the bag you roll the end back up and have a nice clean area to seal. i learned this on the forum years ago, ALSO if there is alot of liquid try and hang the bag down over the edge of the counter and seal, this is a method i use when marinating, or putting liquid in a bag to sous vide ..

GOOD LUCK


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