# Sausage "binder"Questions



## pagraybeard (Aug 10, 2017)

Good morning,I've got a question on binding agents. so far I've been using NFDM as my binder in my trail Bologna,kielbasa,and snack sticks. I've got a friend who can't or won't eat dairy.so I thought of using the soy products as a binder and that was a no good for the gluten free friends.so I went to sausagemakers web site and saw a binder made from carrots.has anyone used this and will it change the taste of my current recipes? By the way everything I make is venison based. Thanks in advance for the input and I look forward to the replies.


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## kbuckeye (Aug 10, 2017)

Try Rice or rusk. Check out Scott Rea on YouTube. I haven't personally tried it, but looks good when he makes it.


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## pagraybeard (Aug 10, 2017)

Thanks I'll check it out.


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## wild west (Aug 10, 2017)

Check this thread. www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/263547/grandkids-sli


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## tallbm (Aug 10, 2017)

pagraybeard said:


> Good morning,I've got a question on binding agents. so far I've been using NFDM as my binder in my trail Bologna,kielbasa,and snack sticks. I've got a friend who can't or won't eat dairy.so I thought of using the soy products as a binder and that was a no good for the gluten free friends.so I went to sausagemakers web site and saw a binder made from carrots.has anyone used this and will it change the taste of my current recipes? By the way everything I make is venison based. Thanks in advance for the input and I look forward to the replies.


What is your meat to fat ratio?

I ask because I have made sausage and ground venison pastrami loaf without binders and everything has held together with no issue.  Now I have not made bologna but it's all basically the same stuff.

My meat to fat ration is 80% meat to 20% fat.

For wild game sausage I do not run my smoker higher then about 170-180F (which isn't until later in the smoke) and since I have done wild game I take the internal temp (IT) to 165F so the meat is safe.  I eat feral hogs I shoot so I gotta take it to 165F for sure.

Again, I have had no issues when I have made sausage from game and not used binders as long as I had an 80/20 meat to fat ratio.


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## pagraybeard (Aug 10, 2017)

I can't be certain on the ratio.the ground venison was given to me from a friend who wanted some trail Bologna made. When I process my deer,I try to mix the 20% beef fat in.sometimes I'm light,sometimes I'm heavy.the recipe I usually use calls for NFDM. I may try it without sometime,but now I'm about out of ground venison. Good thing archery season is around the corner,lol.


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## tallbm (Aug 10, 2017)

Just an FYI on mixing fat with venison.  I do it each year after my big hunting trip.  The simplest thing for me is to buy trimmed pork back fat from the butcher.  They get it shipped in so there is no waiting for them to save scraps of fat to meet my fat needs.  

I often buy about 20 pounds of it because I need about 16 pounds of fat to make about 80 pounds of sausage from my wild game haul.

I just vac seal and freeze the left over for the next year or for throughout the year when I make other sausage type items.

If you can get that kind of hook up going you can get precise ratios and super consistent results you repeat time after time.

Wish I could do this with beef fat but oh well.  I do what I can.

Best of luck! :)


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 11, 2017)

Info on binders in link. FYI ...There is no gluten in Soy Concentrate...JJ

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...-and-why-we-dont-your-thoughts-and-results/20


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## dward51 (Aug 11, 2017)

I know NEPAS has tried the carrot binder from Butcher & Packer and he likes it.  I have been using Butcher & Packer's #414 special binder (it's basically their version of AmesPhos or a phosphate binder).  I have had excellent results with #414 in sticks and in other sausage.  Both the carrot binder and 414 are inexpensive and the 414 goes a long way as it only takes a small amount.


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## pagraybeard (Aug 11, 2017)

I was unaware of the soy being gluten free.when I mentioned the soy they weren't too keen on it.thanks


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## pagraybeard (Aug 11, 2017)

So I mix my binder (NFDM) in last,right before stuffing. Should I be mixing it with the spices and cure in the cup of ice water? I'm sure you guys get tired of the questions lol


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 11, 2017)

pagraybeard said:


> I was unaware of the soy being gluten free.when I mentioned the soy they weren't too keen on it.thanks


The majority of Soy grown in the last several years has been a GMO variety. Some folks are freaked out by it. I got too much other S#!T to worry about than sweat a cup of soy protein in 5lb of sausage...JJ


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## ab canuck (Aug 12, 2017)

When I make sausage that requires a binder I mix it in when I do the spices, I have used NFDM and the soy protein and have not been able to tell the difference. If that helps.


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## daveomak (Aug 12, 2017)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> pagraybeard said:
> 
> 
> > I was unaware of the soy being gluten free.when I mentioned the soy they weren't too keen on it.thanks
> ...


I have read some stuff where Soy was deliberately GMO'd because of the effect it had on the brain in developing children..  Seems the "original" soy was "responsible" for underdeveloped brain in fetus and child....   They targeted the "culprit" chemical in the soy and replaced or removed it through modern science...


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 13, 2017)

DaveOmak said:


> I have read some stuff where Soy was deliberately GMO'd because of the effect it had on the brain in developing children..  Seems the "original" soy was "responsible" for underdeveloped brain in fetus and child....   They targeted the "culprit" chemical in the soy and replaced or removed it through modern science...


Interesting. There's a bit of info the Frankenfood Protesters don't want well known. A GMO food is BETTER for you than the original...JJ


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## blaise (Aug 13, 2017)

Bull flower makes a pretty good binder----but it does have gluten.

  Soy does not have gluten---but you should be aware of cross contamination----as alot of these products are grown and processed in the same fields and factories as wheat and barely. I would think you would have to be ultra-sensitive for that to be a problem.

Blaise


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