# To inject or not to inject that is the question



## smokininidaho (Aug 10, 2018)

Gonna do a 7lb Boston Butt tomorrow. Was going to inject with fresh apple juice. I've done this before, last year I believe and for the life of me can't remember the results, if I could tell a difference. Has anyone noticed the meat being mushy when they inject? Just any pros and cons would be appreciated.


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## chilerelleno (Aug 10, 2018)

I've not injected with any fruit juices, but know others have with good results.
I'd inject and cook immediately to avoid any mushiness, especially if using something like pineapple.
I've used various broths and spiced butter injections with good results.


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## oldsmokerdude (Aug 10, 2018)

Love your profile picture! I've not injected with fruit juice either, but as chili mentioned, if you go straight to the smoker you should be okay. I wouldn't use too much though, as the acid in the juice will begin to "tenderize" the meat immediately. 
Regardless, let us know how it goes.


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## xray (Aug 10, 2018)

My last butt I made, I injected with Dr. Pepper. I thought it turned out better than the ones I’ve made without an injection.


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## smokin vegas (Aug 10, 2018)

The usual results will be a moister more flavorful meat.  I like to inject with brine too.  Sometimes example at Thanksgiving I brine my turkey for 3-5 days in ginger-ale, 100% cranberry juice with orange zest juniper berries and brown sugar.


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## zwiller (Aug 10, 2018)

No argument, injection for butts.  The main concern with mushy meat is using an overly acidic injection.  Apple juice is perfect.  ACV, lemon juice, or other acidic media etc is another matter.  Consult a pH chart if needed.  

An apple juice injection reduced the gaminess of the the butt and gives it a real fresh smell and taste.  I like a 5% apple juice base for my butt injection.  Mixon's injection recipe is good (his book is a must own BTW).  I also like phosphate in butts too.


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## smokininidaho (Aug 10, 2018)

zwiller said:


> No argument, injection for butts.  The main concern with mushy meat is using an overly acidic injection.  Apple juice is perfect.  ACV, lemon juice, or other acidic media etc is another matter.  Consult a pH chart if needed.
> 
> An apple juice injection reduced the gaminess of the the butt and gives it a real fresh smell and taste.  I like a 5% apple juice base for my butt injection.  Mixon's injection recipe is good (his book is a must own BTW).  I also like phosphate in butts too.


Thanks everyone, not understanding 5% apple juice base, what's the other 95%?


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## SmokinLogs (Aug 10, 2018)

I’ve never shot up a butt but I have a pork loin. I used butter with lemon juice and some seasoning and let it sit overnight. It did come out mushy, unbelievably tasty, but mushy. I’d say inject and then get it on the smoker relatively quick. Let us know how it turns out.


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## TomKnollRFV (Aug 10, 2018)

I've taken to now injecting all pork butts I do. I do the rub first, then inject <Because I learned applying pressure to a pork butt full of 8+ ounces of marinade might be messy the hard way>


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## myownidaho (Aug 10, 2018)

I’ve done it both ways. I don’t bother anymore. I do rub the night before and let it sit in the fridge.


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## RiversideSm0ker (Aug 10, 2018)

I always inject pork butt these days. I found a great recipe for an amazing injection online that I use now. I’ve posted it before but here it is again.

1 cup apple juice 
1/4 apple cider vinegar 
1/4 water
2 Tbl maple syrup 
2 Tbl Worcestershire sauce 
1 1/2 tsp of whatever rub you are using  

George


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## zwiller (Aug 10, 2018)

smokininidaho said:


> Thanks everyone, not understanding 5% apple juice base, what's the other 95%?


Inject 5% apple juice of the weight of butt.  I prefer to convert to grams.  IE: 7lb butt = 3,175g.  Inject with 159g apple juice.  3,175*.05=159.  I do this to ensure I don't overdo it.  When I say "base" I mean the liquid since I am adding salt, phosphate, etc but that stuff is dry...  George's injection looks good and similar to mine (based on Mixon) but like I said, I worry I would overdo it, so I inject based on weight.  Credit to @daveomak for this technique.


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## gmc2003 (Aug 11, 2018)

Junkies all of you are junkies.:)

I wonder what one of our "*Free* *injection* *sites*" would do if I went in and asked to inject my butt safely w/o fear of reprisal. Then took out a pork butt. 

I'm more of a butt rubber - then an injector, but do want to try the Dr. Pepper injection.

Chris


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## zwiller (Aug 11, 2018)

"Free injection sites" LOL.  I am 46 but my sense of humor has not matured since high school and real surprised I have not played that card every time someone uses the words "butt injection". 

Consistent TBS during the smoke and proper pull IT are 80% of the results of good PP.  No injection or rub will correct mistakes here.  Thankfully AMNPS + MES is pretty much plug and play.  While I do think injecting (and especially phosphate) makes a difference, I personally found wood choice had a profound impact on my butts.  Tried lots of things and blends but once I tried oak it was CLEARLY the wood for me for butts.  

Once thing I think that I don't see discussed is that lots of things contain phosphate/phosphorus.   Especially soda (phosphoric acid for pH) and apple juice (naturally) as well.  That's my opinion why guys like to use Dr Pepper.  Another interesting parallel is that Dr. Pepper has a strong vanilla note.  So does oak wood when it burns which is why it used so extensively for whiskey...  That said, injecting a whole 12oz can (340g) is about 10% of a 7lb but and the effect might be too obvious.  You might like that but not me.  I'd aim half a can for subtle effect.  I'd also consider adding 1% salt too.


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## petehalsted (Aug 11, 2018)

I did a Dr Pepper Butt this winter, and was definitely the best PP I have done. 

We went to Memphis in May this summer, and did the tour of champions, they were doing butts the day we went. I did my best Walter Cronkite and asked as many questions as I good. All 3 of them injected, All 3 of them within 2 hours of it going in the smoker. Mushy was one of the reasons that they all said within 2 hours.

Changed my thinking quite a bit, I always injected the night before. Now I do my injection and other prep work, then go get the smoke rolling, so its usually 1 1/2 to 2 hours between inject and the smoker, did that with the turkey breast I did last week and they were fantastic.

I did over night with Mojo Crillio and pineapple in a pork loin, and there were pockets in the loin, where my injection technique wasn't perfect, that were little abscesses of mushy meat. 

I like the 5% idea, definitely better than the normal "Inject as much as it will take" instruction you see with a lot of recipes.


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## TomKnollRFV (Aug 11, 2018)

Just chiming in on the soda front..Root Beer is another good flavour to go with pork.. but my personal reasoning for injection is I can never taste the rub. I don't know why I can't..but I can't. Likely as a heavy smoker for years, so injecting I can taste better. <And it sure does smell good when it gets going. I've had neighbors ask over the fence what it was now because the yard smells like sweet apple and garlic and pepper!>


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## zwiller (Aug 11, 2018)

petehalsted said:


> I did a Dr Pepper Butt this winter, and was definitely the best PP I have done.
> 
> We went to Memphis in May this summer, and did the tour of champions, they were doing butts the day we went. I did my best Walter Cronkite and asked as many questions as I good. All 3 of them injected, All 3 of them within 2 hours of it going in the smoker. Mushy was one of the reasons that they all said within 2 hours.
> 
> ...


I am by no expert on with MIM or KCBS rules but seem to recall it's a 24 cook window and their doing a whole shoulder so basically same day cooking.  I would guess 2 hour injection is as long you can go.  I think it would work just fine but would affect my bark.  I have to have a good pellicle for my MES to produce good bark.  I gotta ask the dumbest question but did you taste the PP at MIM?  

WRT to that loin, pineapple juice contains papain a known meat tenderizer...  Also did you use Goya mojo AND pineapple?  Mojo alone is pretty acidic.  Damn, mojo pork loin sounds real good right now.


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## TomKnollRFV (Aug 11, 2018)

zwiller said:


> I am by no expert on with MIM or KCBS rules but seem to recall it's a 24 cook window and their doing a whole shoulder so basically same day cooking.  I would guess 2 hour injection is as long you can go.  I think it would work just fine but would affect my bark.  I have to have a good pellicle for my MES to produce good bark.  I gotta ask the dumbest question but did you taste the PP at MIM?
> 
> WRT to that loin, pineapple juice contains papain a known meat tenderizer...  Also did you use Goya mojo AND pineapple?  Mojo alone is pretty acidic.  Damn, mojo pork loin sounds real good right now.


My MES has no issue making bark. If you want a 'cheat' ..do a HONEY mustard base rub. Notice I capitalized the honey. The craziest bark I've gotten has been done with honey mustards, presumably as all the added sugars help.


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## petehalsted (Aug 11, 2018)

zwiller said:


> I gotta ask the dumbest question but did you taste the PP at MIM?
> 
> WRT to that loin, pineapple juice contains papain a known meat tenderizer...  Also did you use Goya mojo AND pineapple?  Mojo alone is pretty acidic.  Damn, mojo pork loin sounds real good right now.



Yes in the tour of champions we were actually "judging" for some extra prize. Let's be honest it a way for MIM to generate extra income, I think the tour of champion tickets were an extra $15. And I am sure the guys worry more about the real judging than the tour of champions.

Of the 3 we tasted, 2 where great, both moist and really great pork flavor, and a hit of the rub and bark. The two we like, we were split on 1st and 2nd between the four of us. One of them, none of the 4 of us cared for, dry, and only flavor we got was from the rub.

Yes I used Goya mojo, that pork loin got thin sliced and used for cubans along with some twice smoked ham I had made, and was unbelievable. I love me some garlic!  I have one pack left that I am waiting for the right occasion to make some more cubans, but once you been able to buy made that day cuban bread in SoFla, its hard to settle for something else, here in MO where we are for the next couple of months.

I have been playing with pineapple juice a lot lately, and really like it in my glazes, spritzs, even injections if done right before(won't do over night again). It gives a much sweeter undertone than apple. But for foil juice I have found that pineapple can over tenderize, especially if I use to much juice in the pouch. I did some ribs a while back that weren't only FOTB, but the bones were SOFT!!!!


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