# Brining a frozen turkey?



## rabbitman (Jul 29, 2012)

How should I go about this? I have a couple (12-14 lb.) turkeys in my deep freezer. I want to brine one before smoking. Does anyone have any experience doing this (brining a frozen bird)?  I have a big enough cooler that I can keep the brining bird in a bag and cover with chunk ice that I freeze in various water filled containers. I rarely have to buy ice. How long can I brine or should I brine without worry of it being too salty? I plan to use the slaughterhouse brine recipe. I know it takes a frozen turkey a couple of days to fully thaw in the fridge. Should I thaw it or partially thaw the bird before brining?  What target should I shoot for as far as length of time (thaw or not thaw) to serving after smoking? Say I take it out today and start process when can I serve it? Thanks


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## s2k9k (Jul 29, 2012)

I would thaw it first then into the brine for 24 hours then smoke it then eat!


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## jsdspif (Jul 29, 2012)

I second that . They seem to take forever to thaw , at least in my fridge they do . I will also mention I did one once where after I thawed it I just put it in my smoker , no brining , seasoning etc. I cooked it just the same way I cooked one about a month before that I did brine and brining is the way to go . I injected one once but it seemed to me the meat at the point of injection was a different texture than the meat that really didn't get any of the injection juice . After the brine no brine experiment I told myself from here on out I'm brining poultry products . I just think it makes for a better finished product .


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## scarbelly (Jul 29, 2012)

I totally agree that you need to thaw it first.


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## austinl (Jul 29, 2012)

Also agree you should at least mostly thaw it in your fridge first.  If you remember the standard ratios for your brine it won't be too salty.  If you use a dry seasoning mix be aware of its salt content as well.  I agree with spif up there; brining is the only way to go if you want flavor deep and even throughout the meat.  A standard brine is for every 1 gallon of water: 1 cup sugar and 1 cup kosher salt (or 1/2 cup table salt) plus whatever you want to flavor it with, the possibilities are endless.  Brine for 24 hours in the fridge (I use a nsf food-grade 5-gallon bucket) and be pretty liberal with your flavorings because your final cooked product will be much milder.


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## JckDanls 07 (Jul 29, 2012)

It will not take any brine If It's frozen... thaw it first


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## rabbitman (Jul 30, 2012)

Thanks for the tips. I plan to use the basic slaughterhouse brine recipe with maybe an added ingredient of spices or herbs. I look forward to this brining adventure. I have one of the Home Depot buckets, but I have been advised to get a food grade bucket or brining bags. Thanks again.


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## brdprey (Jul 31, 2012)

or or hear me out before you kick me out the door. on tripple d, they had a bbq episode. one of the gentlemen took a mostly frozen bird , rubbed it really really good and put that on the smoker. guy even asked are you going to brine it, and the guy no need if you know what your doing. so i have thought about doing this but i dont have anymore turkies.


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## rabbitman (Jul 31, 2012)

Well, "After further review!"..."The call on the play has been reversed!" It seems that said birds have been processed with 8% solution, so I guess the brining part is out. It would most likely be too salty don't you think? I was looking forward to this.


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## smokinhusker (Jul 31, 2012)

Could you lower the salt content in the brine? I have no idea, hopefully someone with the expertise and knowledge will give an answer!


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## s2k9k (Jul 31, 2012)

rabbitman said:


> Well, "After further review!"..."The call on the play has been reversed!" It seems that said birds have been processed with 8% solution, so I guess the brining part is out. It would most likely be too salty don't you think? I was looking forward to this.


I brined a turkey last T-day and it was the same, 8% solution and it was not salty at all. It was the first time I had smoked a turkey and was the juiciest tastiest bird I had ever had!


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 31, 2012)

I brine Turkeys that are enhanced as well but I only use 1/2C Morton Kosher Salt per Gallon. They have always been great and not salty at all...JJ


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## scarbelly (Jul 31, 2012)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> I brine Turkeys that are enhanced as well but I only use 1/2C Morton Kosher Salt per Gallon. They have always been great and not salty at all...JJ


X2 on this


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## jarjarchef (Jul 31, 2012)

I am not a brine expert, nor do I pretend to be. So the ratios are up to you and how you want to adjust.

However if you try to marinade or brine a frozen piece of meat you will get little or no added value from it. It would be like mixing kool aid with a frozen block of ice. Out side will get the flavor, but the center will not. Thaw it first, then brine or inject it.

Now the food safety side. Yes you can cook meat from a frozen state and get good results. However why do it if you can cook from a thawed state and get some added flavor profiles going. You are still wanting to get through the temperature danger zone (40-140) as fast as possible. So starting at below 32 is going to just take you that much longer. You are going to need to get 165 or above and by the time you get the thicker parts to 165 you run the chance of over cooking some of the other areas.

If you need to thaw it faster put it in your clean bucket with cold running water. Does not need to be fast just a slow steady stream. The best is in the fridge over a couple days. As said earlier you can cook from a frozen state, but once you start cooking it from frozen you can not stop the process. You need to cook it all the way.

If you are looking for food safe buckets. Check with some of your local large hotels or catering locations. Some places get already peeled potatoes and most come in 4 gallon buckets. Most places just throw them away. Worth a shot. If you lived closer I would give you some of mine.

Jeramy


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## rowdyrawhide (Jul 31, 2012)

So far the only turkey's I have done have been enhanced and I still use tips slaughterhouse brine as it is posted here minus the celery seed.  They have all turned out fantastic.  I usually try to thaw first but I have put a couple of what I'll call 60-70% thawed in brine for 72 hours, and they turned out great as well.  

As stated before,  once you brine, you won't cook your poultry any other way.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

I switched to dry-brining long ago because water-logged wet brined poultry can sometimes have a funky texture.
It's also much less mess and fuss as well as being easier to achieve crispy skin when dry brining.
Just 1% salt and 1/2 a % sugar plus any other crap you want to add. I guarantee it won't be too salty.
Brine for 3-4 days to allow the seasoning to fully flavor the meat throughout.

DO NOT use the cold water method of thawing if you intend to brine the bird, cold water thawed meat needs to be cooked immediately.
Thaw safely in the fridge.

I forgot to add: You can brine a frozen bird as it defrosts, although it's better to wait until it's thawed, I've done it countless times.
Leave it in the fridge for a couple days past thawing so that it's seasoned throughout.


~Martin


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## jarjarchef (Jul 31, 2012)

Just some info on thawing of food by the National Food Service Mangement Instatute. It follows what I have been instructed to do by the Sate Health Inspector. Use your judgement.

http://nfsmi-web01.nfsmi.olemiss.edu/documentlibraryfiles/PDF/20091123115939.pdf


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## rabbitman (Jul 31, 2012)

Ok, great news!!! I was getting disappointed about not being able to brine. Thank you guys for the heads up. Thank you, Jeramy. I certainl appreciate the offer on the buckets. I will check and see what I can find. Martin, I plan to thaw in fridge before beginning the brining process. I am in no hurry. Good things take time. I am curious about the dry brining process you mentioned, Martin. Do you have any recipes you would care to share for poultry? I have read about being liberal with herbs and spices to get a more fully flavored end product. Thank you all for the help and tips, I appreciate your advice.


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## rabbitman (Jul 31, 2012)

Thanks for the link, Jeramy.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

FWIW.....

*Safe Thawing Guidelines Differ for Consumers vs. Food Service Industry*

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/safefood/newsltr/v7n3s02.html

"When thawing in cold water, place food in a leak-proof plastic bag, submerge in cold tap water, change the water every 30 minutes, *and cook immediately after thawing*."

~Martin


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

rabbitman said:


> I am curious about the dry brining process you mentioned, Martin. Do you have any recipes you would care to share for poultry? I have read about being liberal with herbs and spices to get a more fully flavored end product. Thank you all for the help and tips, I appreciate your advice.



I don't usually follow a recipe when doing turkeys and the like and I tend to be very conservative with added flavors, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

However, here's a good article that i found on dry brining....

http://food52.com/blog/2713

FWIW,  I first started dry brining in the late 80's after hearing about Judy Rodgers technique.


~Martin


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## dls1 (Jul 31, 2012)

DiggingDogFarm said:


> I don't usually follow a recipe when doing turkeys and the like and I tend to be very conservative with added flavors, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.
> However, here's a good article that i found on dry brining....
> http://food52.com/blog/2713
> FWIW, I first started dry brining in the late 80's after hearing about Judy Rodgers technique.
> ~Martin


Same here, Martin. I used to eat at the Zuni Cafe a lot, and converted to the dry brining/curing process Judy advocates. Haven't looked back. To me, dry brining/curing is far superior to a wet brine, at least for poultry.

With turkeys, I'm pretty much spot on with what Parsons recommends. The only deviation is the occasional addition of certain herbs and/or spices to the salt. As for the turkey itself, I haven't cooked them whole for years. I just part them out, cure the parts ala Parsons/Rodgers, start with the dark meat, later add the white meat, and finish. Great results every time.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

dls1 said:


> Same here, Martin. I used to eat at the Zuni Cafe a lot, and converted to the dry brining/curing process Judy advocates. Haven't looked back. To me, dry brining/curing is far superior to a wet brine, at least for poultry.
> 
> With turkeys, I'm pretty much spot on with what Parsons recommends. The only deviation is the occasional addition of certain herbs and/or spices to the salt. As for the turkey itself, I haven't cooked them whole for years. I just part them out, cure the parts ala Parsons/Rodgers, start with the dark meat, later add the white meat, and finish. Great results every time.



Cool!

I rarely do a whole intact bird anymore either. I typically spatchcock or split them because they cook SO much more evenly.

~Martin


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## rabbithutch (Jul 31, 2012)

rabbitman said:


> Thanks for the tips. I plan to use the basic slaughterhouse brine recipe with maybe an added ingredient of spices or herbs. I look forward to this brining adventure. I have one of the Home Depot buckets, but I have been advised to get a food grade bucket or brining bags. Thanks again.



For food-safe buckets, check your local Sam's Club, in the bakery.  They get icing in 5 gallon buckets and they throw them away if no one asks for them.


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## austinl (Jul 31, 2012)

rabbitman said:


> Well, "After further review!"..."The call on the play has been reversed!" It seems that said birds have been processed with 8% solution, so I guess the brining part is out. It would most likely be too salty don't you think? I was looking forward to this.


I had this same thought a while back so I conducted an experiment.  I took two chickens that both had that solution and one of them I let soak in plain water in the fridge for 15 hours to equalize any of that solution out and then used the same brine recipe on both separately.  After cooking none of my guests or myself could tell the difference.  I didn't tell anyone what I did just asked them to taste both and tell me what they thought side by side.


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## jarjarchef (Jul 31, 2012)

Not to add more confusion to the possible thawing process. The 2 methods that have been linked are from 2003 & 2009 and both not from USDA. I am attaching their Food Safety and Inspection Service Hot-line Q&A site that was last updated May 24, 2011. There are slight differences in all three links and I am sure many other sites can be found. Bottom line you need to use what process you feel will keep your family safe.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/help/faqs_hotline_preparation/index.asp#contents


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

We each are our own best keeper.
The USDA has recommended for a long time that ' consumers' (I hate that word) cook cold water thawed meats immediately.
Take it or leave it.

*"Cold Water Thawing 
This method is faster than refrigerator thawing but requires more attention. The food must be in a leak-proof package or plastic bag. If the bag leaks, bacteria from the air or surrounding environment could be introduced into the food. Also, the meat tissue may absorb water, resulting in a watery product. 

The bag should be submerged in cold tap water, changing the water every 30 minutes so it continues to thaw. Small packages of meat, poultry or seafood — about a pound — may thaw in an hour or less. A 3-to 4-pound package may take 2 to 3 hours. For whole turkeys, estimate about 30 minutes per pound. If thawed completely, the food must be cooked immediately. 

Foods thawed by the cold water method should be cooked before refreezing."*

The Big Thaw — Safe Defrosting Methods — for Consumers
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Big_Thaw/

~Martin


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## jarjarchef (Jul 31, 2012)

So we both use the same Government Web site and come up with different answers. Hmmmmm par for the course for our Government.........

Bottom line you need to use what process you feel will keep your family safe.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

jarjarchef said:


> Hmmmmm par for the course for our Government.........



Yup, it sure is, but that's nothing that a few more billion dollars won't fix!!!! :biggrin:


~Martin


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## rabbitman (Aug 1, 2012)

I appreciate all the words of wisdom and opinions. I will not be in a hurry and will plan to thaw the bird for a couple of days in the fridge and brine for 24 hours. Thanks for the links guys. I have never been a fan of thawing in water, but when I have, I cooked the meat or seafood in short order. I like to thaw like I like my bbq...low and slow. As I stated in the beginning, I am a complete novice when it comes to brining. I am going to research both the Parsons/Rodgers technique and wet technique even more. I don't want my first attempt to become a disaster.


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## jsdspif (Aug 1, 2012)

Just to add to the where to get buckets , probably any store that has a deli and / or bakery will have various sizes , and if the person at the counter says no it doesn't hurt to ask a manager . I say that because I got a bucket at the grocery store from the deli and it wasn't quite big enough and when I went back a couple days later for a larger one the person at the counter said they couldn't sell them to the public , so I said I bought one a couple days ago and I'd like to speak to a manager . The person made a phone call and then came back and pointed to a mess of different sized buckets and asked "what size do you think you need ? " They charged me a dollar or so for them .


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## diggingdogfarm (Aug 1, 2012)

rabbitman said:


> plan to thaw the bird for a couple of days in the fridge



I would plan on 4-5 days to fully thaw a 12-14 lb. bird in the fridge.


~Martin


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