# Liking a good blade...



## SonnyE (Apr 23, 2018)

Seemed to me this was the right spot to talk KNIVES...

I was raised to love a good edge for the work at hand. Dad always loved his pocket knife razor sharp. Our hunting and fishing sheath knives would cut to the bone with little effort.
So, I kind of look at the metallurgy as well as the manufacturer when considering a blade.

Most recently I was interested in a bigger knife to use for cutting meats in particular. Something more specialized as I wasn't quite happy with the JA Hinkles set I got the wife a couple of decades ago. They are great blades, and work extremely well, don't get me wrong. And an outstanding lifetime warranty. When a BIL managed to break the meat fork in the set on the BBQ doing Tri-Tip, Hinkles replaced the fork immediately. And it matches the set.
Which I bought a block, a starter set, then added knives specific to needs. Including a vegetable clever I like for many uses.
But I felt the large chef's knife wasn't my shot of whiskey for meat work. Just longed for something better tuned to butchering.

So, I set my sights on a *Cimeter shape*, and large, but still block or drawer sized. Not so big it needed stored in the armory. I don't butcher game, pigs, or steers anymore. ;)
But large knives make tasks light, with consideration to the hand and frame size of the one using it. I wouldn't expect our 105 pound DIL to handle a broad sword...o_O

I read up on what folks here seemed to like and Victorinox came up a lot. And Cimeter shape seemed to surface in threads.
Once you get around the stigma of the Cimeter shape, and its more recent rise as the choice of beheading in the Middle East, you realize it makes a good meat cutting knife. So I gravitated toward the style.

Next was How Big is Too Big? So I set about the size dilemma. I looked at 12" and even 14" monsters and realized it would require storing it in my over sized gun safe, or hanging high out of reach in the kitchen because swords don't fit in drawers to well. I measured the knife block and found a 10", which is common for large knives, would fit the existing block. I decided I could probably do well with a 10" blade. Big enough, yet small enough.
I got to try out a Sister-In-Laws Cimeter shaped kitchen knives when up at their home, and found I liked the style and how it worked for me.

Branded, or Off-Brand? That is often a matter of choice and comfort for the purchaser. Here, I like to dig into the specifics, to take a look at the metallurgy* that although is not my field, I can learn some while scratching around in.
Ah! Now we are getting to the Meat and Potatoes. And in picking around, I found some familiar names. *Wusthof, Victorinox and others...* :cool:

I chose in the "OTHERS" category in the end. I think I got a Cadillac, but at a Chevy or GMC price.
Named "Update", it has a right composition, sanitary and Large handle, and took a fine sharp edge right away with an old heirloom sharpening steel passed down to me through generations. I got the chance to give the new blade a good trial run with my ribs, and with some chicken. And it is still razor sharp and not needing touched up yet.
The Cimeter shape did not disappoint me either. The rocking with a slight push cleanly separated pieces raw or cooked.

I've come to like what a curved sharp blade has to offer after learning to use an Ulu knife so popular in Alaska. Mine is in use every day dicing food for my old toothless little buddy.
And I often use the JA Hinkles Vegetable cleaver for cheese cutting of 5 pound blocks, down to serving sizes, or prepossessing into grated. I think that if it had a detachable knob handle on the front corner it could be a more perfect tool
(Humm, I haven't tried the Cimeter on cheese yet, but the leverage might be welcomed to the task.) o_O

*Comments are welcomed!
Feel free to share your favorites so I and others can learn the what's and where-hows of your edgy friends.*

*=
_*X50CrMoV15*_
_ - German steel. Very stain resistant. Other than that not much to speak of. The cryptic X50CrMoV15 stands for 0.5% carbon, the other 15% is composed of 14% or 14.5% of Cr, some Mo and V. X in the name is a an indicator for high alloy steel, 0.5% C content means, by definition X50CrMoV15 isn't a high carbon steel, despite of some marketing claims. In fact it has less C content compared to 440C steel. However, it's plenty tough and resists corrosion well and it is a high alloy steel. If you don't want to bother maintaining your knives this is a good choice. Except for the low edge holding ability of course. In the end, you end up sharpening it a lot more often, so low maintenance statement is really arguable. Used by Wusthof, Victorinox and others in their high end knives. Ref - X50CrMoV15 Steel Composition. If you are interested, you can also read up on DIN And EN Steel Standards Naming Conventions._


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## weev (Apr 23, 2018)

I have this knife also and I like it a lot  But my wife wont go anywhere near it hell she wont touch any knife but a steak knife I think she does it so I do most of the cooking but thats ok because I like to cook


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## SonnyE (Apr 23, 2018)

weev said:


> I have this knife also and I like it a lot  But my wife wont go anywhere near it hell she wont touch any knife but a steak knife I think she does it so I do most of the cooking but thats ok because I like to cook



Thanks weev!
I figured it was a roll of the dice. But I feel it paid well.
I'm quite happy with mine.

That said, the seller used Amazon Prime to get free shipping on the same thing that is $12.97 through Update's website on Amazon. So more*n*more made $2.33 off of me being a middle man (from Indonesia).
Like the knife, not the seller. Let the buyer beware. o_O

My wife doesn't know I have mine.... yet... :eek::D
I'm a sneaky bass dropping.


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## normanaj (Apr 23, 2018)

Its my understanding that Update International knives are all made in China.

At the price-point for the Update I'll stick with a Dexter-Russell.


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## SonnyE (Apr 23, 2018)

normanaj said:


> Its my understanding that Update International knives are all made in China.
> 
> At the price-point for the Update I'll stick with a Dexter-Russell.



It sez Made in China on the package.
But here's what it sez on the blade itself:







So what's it say on your Dexter-Russell? Ouch! $48.70?
For the price point, I'm happy.
Hope you are happy, too.

And as an end point, take a look around you...
I bet you a dollar to a doughnut you have plenty of Made in China in your home. We can't get away from the fact China has bought up no end of American Manufacturing, and a myriad of companies have sold out and moved to other countries.
I lifted the hood on my 1987 1-ton dually 4X4 when it was new and found no end of Canada and Mexico parts there.

But... to each his own, aj, to each his own. ;)


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## Bearcarver (Apr 23, 2018)

I just use the same cheap Fishing "Fillet" knives I used when I was in good enough shape to go fishing & fillet my catch.

I figure I can cut myself just as good on a cheap sharp knife as I can with an expensive sharp knife!!

Bear


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## myownidaho (Apr 23, 2018)

I have a couple of drawers full of knives. My current go to is a 9” Kikuichi Gyuto with a blade made of folded Swedish steel. I use Wusthof chef’s knives for hard material or anything with bones. I use Shun for everything else. I used Dexter’s in the firehouse and really like them.


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## SonnyE (Apr 23, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I just use the same cheap Fishing "Fillet" knives I used when I was in good enough shape to go fishing & fillet my catch.
> 
> I figure I can cut myself just as good on a cheap sharp knife as I can with an expensive sharp knife!!
> 
> Bear



A friend in Wyoming use to ask me to sharpen his pocket and tool belt knives occasionally.
He always cut himself soon afterwords.


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## SonnyE (Apr 23, 2018)

myownidaho said:


> I have a couple of drawers full of knives. My current go to is a 9” Kikuichi Gyuto with a blade made of folded Swedish steel. I use Wusthof chef’s knives for hard material or anything with bones. I use Shun for everything else. I used Dexter’s in the firehouse and really like them.



Whew! That's a nice knife!
I think we all tend to settle in and be comfortable with a handfuls of specific's we like.
I bet it would be fun to look through your drawers... :confused::eek::rolleyes::D LOL!


Hey, you said it. I just played on it. ;):p


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## myownidaho (Apr 23, 2018)

SonnyE said:


> Whew! That's a nice knife!
> I think we all tend to settle in and be comfortable with a handfuls of specific's we like.
> I bet it would be fun to look through your drawers... :confused::eek::rolleyes::D LOL!
> 
> ...



Fortunately, those are the dull ones! o_O

This is he Kikuichi I own.


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## SonnyE (Apr 23, 2018)

myownidaho said:


> Fortunately, those are the dull ones! o_O
> 
> This is he Kikuichi I own.
> 
> View attachment 361675



I'm afraid I would never take that out of its display case, let alone use it. :confused::eek:


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## old sarge (Apr 23, 2018)

Been using Chicago Cutlery for 35 or so years.  Don't know where they are made now but this set we have is from the USA. Also have a large Lamson Sharp.  And for the BBQ/grilling station, I have a small set of Old Hickory.  Those are pretty good knives at a good price point, and made in America.


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## myownidaho (Apr 23, 2018)

Chicago Cutlery is the first brand of kitchen knives I ever used. That was yeah, a little over 35 years ago.


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## old sarge (Apr 23, 2018)

I am real fond of those Chicago cutlery knives.  Love the wood handles; keep them well lubed mineral oil and the occasional fat from beef. Just plain comfortable to use.  They take and hold an edge pretty well and steeling them is easy.  That Old Hickory set was a set of 5 (forgot to mention that).  Just never took a fancy to expensive imported knives. I do have a couple of inexpensive Victorinox knives, some sort of promotional or anniversary set with synthetic handles.


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## SonnyE (Apr 23, 2018)

My wife (sick) recalled a bag of bell peppers in the refrigerator she wanted cut up and bagged for adding to eggs and things. We typically buy, then process and store food in one of the freezers. She tells family and friends I'm a good sous chef. Because I step up and do as much of the prep work for her as she'll allow.
Anyway, the knife I chose from the block happened to be a 7" Chicago Cutlery Santoku. I got it originally because it was the type I wanted between the large chef's, and smaller Hinkles Santoku. And it almost matches the Hinkles. After I gave it a few laps on the steel, it sliced and diced right along. 
Pretty much a joy to use.
In fact, since my brain is on the cutting edge, I just touched up the knives in the counter-top knife block using my small diamond dust steel.
My Dad, originally an Illinois farm boy, always liked Chicago Cutlery knives. We had Kabar, Old Timer, and a lot of old time American Made knives. My hunting knife was a good sized Bowey style Solingen, Germany sheath knife.
It was almost identical to this.
Dad thought it was too big when I bought it at age 15. It wasn't that big really, 5 1/2 - 6" blade.
Then we were hunting with a neighbor who got a deer. It wasn't long before they wanted to borrow my big knife. LOL!
It went on into life with me and helped process a lot of Deer and Antelope in Wyoming. It held an edge like no other. It was stolen by my second wife.
It is said a good knife is the one that fits your hand and you will use.


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## SmokinAl (Apr 24, 2018)

I have some $200 knives & some $10 knives, they all work equally well if you keep them razor sharp.
The only difference between the expensive & cheap knives is the appearance & how long they stay sharp.
Al


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## normanaj (Apr 24, 2018)

> So what's it say on your Dexter-Russell? Ouch! $48.70?
> For the price point, I'm happy.
> Hope you are happy, too.



Hit up a hunting/fishing trade show and you can pick up a Dexter for half that.Great company making a great product right here in New England.Imo they're the best knives money can buy in its price range,I've been fileting bluefish and stripers with the same two blades going on more than two decades.And more than a few pork loins and briskets to boot.



> I bet you a dollar to a doughnut you have plenty of Made in China in your home.



No doubt the flatware is made in China!


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## gmc2003 (Apr 24, 2018)

I use a set that I inherited from my Grandmother. I know it dates at least to the 1930's or 40's. They stay sharp and have never seen a dishwasher. Always hand washed and dried. 

Chris


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## normanaj (Apr 24, 2018)

A little update.Today I spoke with a good friend who has been in the restaraunt/food distribution business for over 40yrs and he assures me these knives are 100% made in China including the blade.Just because it says German steel on the blade doesn't make it so...everything from golf clubs to power tools.When Harbor Freight sells it how good can it be?

There's a reason why Update International knives cost what they do,you get what you pay for.

I'd be very interested what anyone here who owns one of these knives has to say in a couple of years...never mind 20 years.


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## SonnyE (Apr 24, 2018)

normanaj said:


> A little update.Today I spoke with a good friend who has been in the restaraunt/food distribution business for over 40yrs and he assures me these knives are 100% made in China including the blade.Just because it says German steel on the blade doesn't make it so...everything from golf clubs to power tools.When Harbor Freight sells it how good can it be?
> 
> There's a reason why Update International knives cost what they do,you get what you pay for.
> 
> I'd be very interested what anyone here who owns one of these knives has to say in a couple of years...never mind 20 years.



I judge steel on it's ability to take an edge, then hold that edge. Not on who's name is on it.
So far, so good.
I'll check back with you when I'm 88... (20 years).
If you're still around. ;)
Instead of "good friends" what about doing some research for yourself?
What did it say on your Dexter package? o_O
How do you know? Might be a counterfeit....
Made in USA could be USA, Japan. :rolleyes:
Chill dude, put on some Iron Maiden and drift...
Don't worry, be Happy...
Stay in your closed mind, it's safe there.


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## daveomak (Apr 24, 2018)

I looked for a boning knife a couple years ago...  I settled on the "update" knife...   I find it to be a very good knife for the task...


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## SonnyE (Apr 24, 2018)

daveomak said:


> I looked for a boning knife a couple years ago...  I settled on the "update" knife...   I find it to be a very good knife for the task...



Holding an edge for you Dave?
I just wanted a big knife for cutting meat.
I'm pretty happy with my choice.


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## daveomak (Apr 24, 2018)

You've got me thinkin' (damn hard to do) about a scimitar blade now...  I've got it in my "cool stuff" list on Amazon...
Holds an edge very well...   I've got 2 steels and one of those hand held belt sanders for sharpening knives...  It sure works well for boning meat...   almost makes it easy....


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## old sarge (Apr 24, 2018)

Not cutlery, but sort of similar (at least it is used for food).  USA made flatware.
https://www.libertytabletop.com


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## SonnyE (Apr 24, 2018)

daveomak said:


> You've got me thinkin' (damn hard to do) about a scimitar blade now...  I've got it in my "cool stuff" list on Amazon...
> Holds an edge very well...   I've got 2 steels and one of those hand held belt sanders for sharpening knives...  It sure works well for boning meat...   almost makes it easy....



If I lived closer, I bring it over so you could try it out.
Nothing like having your paw on one to decide before putting cash on the barrel head. ;)

I tried a bunch of my hunting knives in my hand before I found the one I bought. I was looking for the fattest handle in the lot, found it.

But now days they are probably pretty much all the same. A formed handle is a formed handle. 
But I'd bet you would like it.


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## SonnyE (Apr 25, 2018)

old sarge said:


> Not cutlery, but sort of similar (at least it is used for food).  USA made flatware.
> https://www.libertytabletop.com



Nice Sarge!
Last of the Mohicans. Only flatware still made in the USA.
And yes, it does apply. Once we cut up the Que, we do want to sit down and eat it. ;)


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## Bearcarver (Apr 25, 2018)

daveomak said:


> I looked for a boning knife a couple years ago...  I settled on the "update" knife...   I find it to be a very good knife for the task...




Looks just like the Fillet knife I use for almost everything, except for the color of the handle.

Bear


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## johnmeyer (Apr 25, 2018)

A knife is more than just an sharp edge. The weight, shape, balance, handle size, and many other factors affect how easily you can use it for a specific task. Most manufacturers, like Chicago, Victorinox, Henckles, etc., tend to follow a certain pattern for each knife style and, as a result, can make one really great knife (like the Victorinox 8" chef knife that so many people love), but not do such a great job on their other knives. You really need to look at all manufacturers for each knife style, and end up with a mix of manufacturers, if you want the best collection. The Cook's Illustrated people often provide what they consider to be the best knife collection, and it always includes knives from multiple manufacturers:

A la carte knife recommendations

But here is my main point: I have used almost all the knives mentioned in this thread, and what I have found is that the sharpening system you use can make almost any knife work well, although you are stuck with a lousy handle, bad balance, and weird shape if you choose the wrong knife.

So _*spend some time and money on a good sharpening system*_. Yes, I can already anticipate the reply I'll get from someone: "all you need is a good stone." I understand. That is how I sharpened knives for decades, and it obviously works. However, people who make their living designing and selling knives have invented something that does a MUCH better job than even the most skilled person can do with a stone.

I was given the Work Sharp, Ken Onion Edition for Christmas a year ago, and it changed everything for me. I have taken knives that I've had for forty years and which never took a good edge, and turned them into wonderful cutting instruments. I have sharpened knives for friends and neighbors, and I always get the same phone call: "this knife never cut like this, even when it was new."

Unlike the "Chef's Choice" and other sharpening gadgets, which attempt to let an unskilled operator get a good edge, this product requires a little bit of skill to use. However, because of the way it works, it will always out-perform the results that even a highly-skilled sharpener can get from a whetstone. This is due to the curved edge it creates; the way it perfectly holds the same angle for each pass; and the fact that you use multiple grits, eventually ending up with a pass that uses what amounts to the old barber's stropping strap.

Click on my link above and take a look. It is an expensive item, which is why the family got together to give it to me for Christmas, so it is not a casual purchase, but if you take your knives seriously, this is a must-have item, IMHO.


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## myownidaho (Apr 25, 2018)

Sharpening makes all the difference in the world. I have the Edge Apex Pro system that I use about once a year. I use a ceramic hone and strops to clean them up as needed.


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## ghostguy6 (Apr 25, 2018)

The Cold Steel line of kitchen knives holds a surprisingly  good edge for the price. Generally I am not of fan of their knives but these are impressive.   The grip is nice when wet. You may want to check these out.


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## barryvabeach (May 12, 2018)

For anyone still searching for knives,  one thing I have not seen mentioned is the thickness and weight of the blade.  Some people like a very stout blade , others like a very thin flexible blade.  I have a number of high end blades, some medium priced ones, and some very inexpensive ones.  I think it is extremely hard to buy online ( though I have quite a few times ) because some knifes just feel right in your hands, and others don't -  but it is more a personal preference.  I do agree that the type of steel is more important in determining how long the knife will stay sharp, since most steels can get pretty sharp when sharpened correctly.


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