# UDS Burnout Question



## adenjago

Hi Guys

Just after a bit of advice regarding the next step for my UDS, as it has been ages since have made a progress on due to  either work or family life, so I decided to get the ball rolling this weekend with a Burnout.  (I successfully grinded and Painted the Lid on the Saturday)

Basically the burnout today which lasted for about 6 Hours, I was expecting\hoping for a lot more paint to come off and more bare metal to be shown.  

so Im wondering if I should perform another burnout next weekend or just get my Grinding disc out and start the grinding process ?

(Im unsure if another burnout would be of any benefit)













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 5, 2014


















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__ adenjago
__ Oct 5, 2014






Regards

Ade


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## dirtsailor2003

If you do another burn, drill out your holes for your air intakes at the bottom. That will help get the fire going hotter.


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## adenjago

Hi Sailor

Cheers for the Quick reply.....

I don't think they a visible in the pics but the there are the 2x 3/4 Holes on either side drilled ready for intake when I did the burnout.


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## dirtsailor2003

Well then is say grind on it and see how it goes. If there's still some tough paint do another burn. Tipping the barrel and partially laying it down can help Get the heat down low. You can carefully rotate it while burning if needed, wear welding gloves!


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## adenjago

thanks dirtsailor2003...

I think it will be a long weekend of Grinding..... 

Im not sure it will be possible to do a burnout as suggested on it's side....


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  Sorry I missed this.  Work getting in the way of important stuff.  I might try one more burn as being an old welder I HATE grinding.  That's some good tuff paint you have there.  Usually more tends to burn off.  I hope you are not planning a grinding wheel to tackle that.  Grinding wheels are made to tackle just that, high speed grinding/cutting of steel.  If you use them to "sand/grind off paint or use them on wood the paint/wood particles CAN become impacted in the grinding wheel.  At the speed the wheels turns, when it becomes impacted with the residue it can " explode"/ violently fly apart.  Now this doesn't always happen but manufacturers warn against using them for this purpose.  Also the discs can reduce the thickness of the steel and if it gets away from you you can easily cut a gash in your drum.  May I recommend you use a flat knotted wire brush or even better a 4" knotted wire cup brush.  These things "eat" paint like a monster!  Keep them moving or even they can eat through thin steel quickly.  NOW!!  CAUTION!! about these brushes!!  THESE ARE ANIMALS!!  They don't respect flesh!  FULL face shield.  HEAVY leather gloves.  HEAVY long sleeve shirt, tucked in to your jeans.  Light jean jacket even better over shirt.  Heavy jeans.  Firm grip and DO NOT GET DISTRACTED!  All they need is to catch on an edge and they will jump.  The cup brush is not meant to be used flat.  With a little gentle experimentation you will learn how to use which edge to get the desired effect.  The reason for heavy clothing is that they often throw off wires which will definitely penetrate skin.  I don't want to scare you away from using these tools.  I just want you to be aware.  Just like food safety I would not recommend a tool or process without trying to pass on all the safety tips I can.  I have seen a few welders who didn't respect these things come a cropper.  Just like any power tool, used properly and with respect they can save you many hours of work.  Hope this helps.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## dirtsailor2003

Laying on the side and burning is just like standing it up. You don't lay it all the way down. Prop the open end up with a couple cinder blocks or rocks.


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## adenjago

Cheers for the reply guys...

Danny, I neglected to mention I have already Successfully Grinded the lid downtown to the bare metal and painted it with some VHT yellow Gloss,  the grinding was down using the brushes you described while you correct they aren't might t be used flat they do cover more area but you are fighting to control the drill and yes like yourself Im want to be safe, disposable respirator an Saftey Googles were used and some gloves..

Hoping to finish the Drum this weekend on saturday and possible apply the VHT Gloss on the Sunday dependent on the time it takes to get it down to the bare metal, it would be in the garage when down to the bare metal, to help prevent the rust start

DirtySailor - in that case then, I'll probably look at doing if the Grinding is a bit much

cheers all for the repsonses 

Ade


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  I did not mean to offend.  I didn't mean to "talk down to you" it's that we never quite know the skill set level when we offer advice.  I just wanted to make sure you were as safe as could be.  Glad it's all coming together for you.  Sounds like this is going to be a smoker that stands out a bit?  Yellow gloss?  WOW!  Can't wait to see this one.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

hi Danny

Certainly No offence taken,  Re-reading your post I'm not quite sure were you thinking you were talking down to me...I certainly can't see ...no harm done..

yes took most of morning grinding the out side of the barrel, then applied the Gloss Black VHT paint in the afternoon,  I do need to finished the lid as small boo boo happened.

the main problem is source some thread 3/4 pipe about 18"-20" in length, for the air inlet....every where seem to do 6 meter lengths(i have tried all local steel holders fabricators, but I need to buy a Thread Die which would be a waste just to use once 

there should be some more pics up this weekend once the lid is rectified...

My drum is being modelled on the below link, really liked the colour scheme...



regards

Ade


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## wade

Hi Ade. Have you been in contact with a local plumber. You may find that they have a short section of pipe they would be prepared to sell you and odds-on they would thread it for you too for a small fee. Also ask at your local plumbing centre. They may be able to help you out.


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## wade

adenjago said:


> My drum is being modelled on the below link, really liked the colour scheme...
> 
> 
> 
> regards
> 
> Ade



Great step-by-step video Ade. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out


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## deano

Looks the exact same drum that I picked up Ade. I'm having the same problems with pipe etc also so let me know how you get on finding it. Have you had any luck finding material for your charcoal basket?


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## kc5tpy

Hello. I have found loads of stuff on E-Bay.  Usually cut to size.  I don't think it's the cheapest way to go but if you are stuck you can usually find it there.

Ade and Deano;  I hope to see you both at next years meet.  We are booking places now ( check out the Group page ).  GET IN THERE guys!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

Hi Deano,

Similar drum apart from Mine has go a lid,  so i did not need the cut the top off.

my Burnout was from 11 in the morning till about 5 in the afternoon, but still had a lot of paint on the bottom which took while to get of grinding,  but I have noticed that Burnout Smell is still there ?? will that go when it is Seasoned ? as it is stinking the garage out at the moment (our fridge resides in the garage)

in regards to the pipe, Ive asked so people who use to be pipe fitters and still waiting for them to come back to me,  

My Choacal basket, I picked up a 12" BBQ portable in a sale for £3 from Asda that is gona be donor for the Basket, I have got 12" bottom Grill know for the Base and the bottom of BBQ as the ash pan.

I got some Stainless woven Mesh, but I little worried that the 12" diameter basket is not going to be bigger enough, but the other issue is withe Stanless mesh being woven it moves quite a bit when trying to bend it around the 12" Grate

Im hoping to be able to put some more pictures up this weekend dependent on the weather, with all the bits and pieces & Components I'm using (Mesh, valves, Fire Basket\Portable BBQ etc),   once the Lid is re-worked dependent on the weather, then I can start putting some parts together less the pipework to see how it looks, the only issue like with Deano is the pipework, but I'm just waiting for some people to come back to me.

not the best picture as the light is reflecting on it from the flash and makes the paint look uneven, it looks a lot more glossy than the pictures showed, but all the holes drilled 













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 17, 2014






as you can see slight issue with the lid regarding the paint,  which I need to regrind and re-gloss....Im not sure how it happened but there was a lot of speckles black gloss on there, I tried to regrind just the area's effected and re-gloss but it comes out with a slightly different shade, so I'm going take it all off and start it again.

Ade


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## kc5tpy

Hello Folks.  That burnout smell??  Does it smell of burned paint or something else?

Danny


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## adenjago

it's a burnt woodish smell....Im hoping it was maybe just the type of wood I used.....but im sure once the weather is better being outside will get rid of it hopefully.


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## kc5tpy

Yeah!  That's just why I asked.  Did you use pine for the burn out?  Is the inside clean looking or does it have a dark coating look?  I am thinking maybe pine tar/creosote.  I wouldn't really think so because you did the burnout open topped but just asking.  Now!  Just to let you know I have a smoker I use in the caravan.  I can't keep it in the caravan when stored because the whole caravan smells of wood smoke if I do.  In a confined space it can become overpowering but you used the phrase "stinking the garage out".  If it just an overpowering smell of wood smoke; then you done good to use an old redneck saying.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## engineman

try bending/rolling the mesh using a 5l paint tin or simlar, then something a bit smaler, as it will spring back.

this will give it some curved strength and make it easier to fit.


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## kc5tpy

Hello  engineman.  I thought we had lost you.  Glad to see you are still around.  Good tip.  Thanks for posting.  Jump in more often and just "grunt"  every now and then if you have nothing to add so we know you are still there.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   We don't want to lose touch with any of our members.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

Just Quick update.....

I feel like I Made a lot of progress Today,  just need wait for some people to come back to me with  Pipework and wait for some of the paint of the Components to dry.....I feel like it's 95% complete 

In the future I hoping to put some kind of hinge Mechanism on the Lid hence why i have hestitated in putting a Handle on the Lid.













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 18, 2014






Thermometer in, Both Grills in 













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 18, 2014






The Rest of the Bits & Pieces Drying, hopefully will be fitted tomorrow 













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 18, 2014






I do need to rejig the Fire Basket as I have made the grate a bit too low with not enough of the Mesh to bend round at the bottom,  but Im also slightly worried that it's only 12" diameter but I suppose it will get me started. ( I do have a 12" Pan which will go underneath for the AshPan, I was going to just give a about 1 1/2" to  2" between the Grate the ash pan should be enough ? 

ade


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  The only thing you have to worry about is that the ash doesn't build up to the bottom of the basket and choke air from your coals.  I think you may be ok with the 12" basket.  Lookin good!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

Hi Danny, 

Would a two inch gap be bigger enough ?


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## dirtsailor2003

My basket is only 12" and it is fine. Put some bolts through the bottom to make legs, 3" is a good height. 













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__ dirtsailor2003
__ Oct 18, 2014


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## adenjago

Cheers Sailor,  

I will hopefully get round to playing with the basket today. 

can I ask what your basket is from, it looks like a cooking pot that you have drilled holes in ?

ade


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## dirtsailor2003

adenjago said:


> Cheers Sailor,
> 
> I will hopefully get round to playing with the basket today.
> 
> can I ask what your basket is from, it looks like a cooking pot that you have drilled holes in ?
> 
> ade



It's a steamer basket that came with a large pot. It's 12" around and about 15" tall. Has a handle on top which is handy for putting the basket in and out if the drum.


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## timberjet

Looking good. I would burn that basket out real good after you get it rigged up. You never know what coating that mesh has on it. I have 3 inches of clearance from the bottom of my basket to the ash pan and it is perfect. Might I suggest some threaded plugs tapped into that lid for when you want to shut down the fire? Maybe you already thought of that or not but the beauty of drum smokers is that you can shut down the airflow and save the remaining charcoal for the next cook. Once again looking good.


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## timberjet

Ok I just looked at your hardware again and I see some plugs. Not sure if you thought about the lid though.


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## adenjago

Hi Timber 

thats correct, I have six elbows in total, four black elbows for the Lid each with threaded plugs, and the other two yellow elbows to go for the air inlet that will by regulated by 2 Bulldog valves which will come out of the bottom.

I have just noticed another possible Problem, with my drum the Holes for the Air inlets are only about  Two inches from the Bottom of barrel,  Im starting to think they maybe too low, as in they may be pointing directly at the the Ash Pan ?


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## timberjet

no man that will work. exactly like mine


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## timberjet

as long as you have 3" of clear space below your fire basket bottom. not the ash pan. the grate.













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__ timberjet
__ Oct 5, 2014


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  Gotta agree with the rest.  I am sure you are on the right track.  Don't stop asking if you have any other doubts.  Build this thing right the first time, easier than rework and repaint.  Take FULL advantage of others experience and/or mistakes.  Looking great.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

Hi Guys, 

Just got the rest of the Fire Basket together looks like I made a little boo boo on the measurements between Grate and the Ash Pan.

mainly down to the comet from Timberjet about not having adequate space between the grate and the ash pan,  the pan side are a little to high... so there ain't a lot of clearance,  should i be looking for a small sided ash pan or is the height between Grate the ash pan.......there is only about 1/2" inch gap....













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__ Oct 25, 2014


















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__ adenjago
__ Oct 25, 2014


















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__ adenjago
__ Oct 25, 2014


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## dirtsailor2003

I use metal pizza pans they work great. Flat and no obstructions .


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## adenjago

cheers Sailor will keep an eye out for one, I did have a look yesterday while out shopping but could only find perforated ones......

I have just start my first smoke or seasoning....been going since 12:00 with the Temp staying pretty consistent between 200 and 225.

going to pop the lid off at 16:00 just to check how they are doing and how much coal is left. (the joint was cheap clearance one from tesco 2.53kg in weight, so if it goes pear shaped i won't be overly fussed)..

Very pleased the Temp seems very stable hovering between 200 and 225













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 26, 2014


















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__ adenjago
__ Oct 26, 2014


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Looking great so far.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## dirtsailor2003

Yep the UDS is very stable at whatever temp you set it at! Good looking first smoke!


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## timberjet

You could just drill holes all around that pan and you would be golden. It will not be a problem on a short cook, but on a 12 hour push you will get ash buildup and the fire might try to go out. Looks good and how was that pork loin?


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## adenjago

Hi Timber,

the UDS kept stable up till about 17:00, where it started to drop from 225 down to 200 then down 180 then 150...so it has been going for 6 hours.  so a quarter of the basket last for a 6 hours.

I Go the Small joint out about 16:00 which was nice but I think maybe should kept it a bit longer..

the large joint came out at 18:00, I have cut a little into it it but no pictures yet, the meat tastes a little dry in the centre still nice but was expecting it be more tender, but I think it maybe should have stayed in longer, or need a drip pan and re add the juices or if it needs injecting (I'm sure i read that somewhere that some people inject the meat ? can't find post) 

Im treating the first couple of smokes as a learning curve,  and learning how to use the smoker













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 26, 2014






at 16:00 - just when I took the Small Joint out,  the temp dropped by 50, but closing a couple Exhaust's soon got the Temp back up to 200-225













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 26, 2014






the Small joint


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## timberjet

You should see if you can find a reliable meat probe. Pork loin is done at 145 to 150. I take it out at 135 and wrap with foil. It will continue to cook as it sits for a while to get it to temp. If it was dry it was overdone. Not like a pork roast or shoulder, Butt. Yep you might have to get some longer bolts for that pan and drill large holes around the perimeter for air flow. I did the same thing on the first incarnation of my coal basket and ended up raising it 2 inches. Good luck and good smoking.


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## kc5tpy

WOW!  That looks great to me!  With that much fat  seems to me it shouldn't be dry.  Did you wrap in foil and a couple towels and let it rest at least an hour?  If you did then I'll have to agree with timberjet, must have been overcooked.  I think the Pro's say let it rest for 15 minutes for every hour you cook it??  Maybe one of the members can correct me if I'm wrong.  I have trouble finding ANY pork if that much fat.  Even many of the pork bellies I get I consider a bit on the lean side.  You don't have to eat the fat if you are watching your health trim it as you slice, ( give it to me! ) but I firmly believe that the fat is where the flavour is and keeps the meat moist.  Looks like a very good first attempt with a new smoker.

If it turned out on the dry side I wouldn't eat it.  You are only about an hour away, just wrap it up and I'll be there soon and take it away for you.  Also if it was dry it may be that new smoker you built so I can bring the pickup and haul that thing away for you as well since I'll already be there.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Great job!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

hi Timber, Danny

as normall a wealth of helpful information in both your replies....
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Timber,  yes when cleaning the UDS out today, the Ash pan was full unto the bottom of Grate,  so yes I think I will be raising the Grate level at least 2-3 inches,  I suppose I was guilty of not checking the internal temp of the meat, as when it came of it was about 170,  which was the temp of the last smoked joint I did on the Weber Kettle, but that wasn't a loin but I assumed it would was the same....as mentioned a learning curve.

also there was quite a lot of fluid on UDS base, I assume this was fat dripping down,  I assume you have to clean that out or need a bigger pan at the bottom

Danny,  thats small Chilli and salt  joint which was pictured was fine with no issues, tender and as juicy as it looks in the pictures. ( yes I agree I do like the fat, like everything  the things that are the best are normally the worst for you

in regards to the offer of releving me of Sammy (Sammy the smoker),  my relationship with Sammy is in its infancy,  but I can only see good times a head with our partnership blossoming once I get  know her better with the odd frustration here and there , and only after our first date has just finished your trying to muscle in my Girl ?  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





The Large pork loin joint is pictured below... I'm not sure if the Pictures show dry it was













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 27, 2014


















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__ adenjago
__ Oct 27, 2014


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  YEP!  That's the sort of pork I get.  I can see what you mean about dry but notice the difference in fat content.  Pork like that makes it even more important not to overcook.  A pork loin like that is pretty hard to get right unless you have quite a lot of experience and know your smoker well.  A therm is almost a must when dealing with a pork loin, especially one with almost zero fat content.  Still, not a bad "first date"!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## wade

Wow Ade - that small joint sure had a lot of fat. Was it a case of spot-the-meat? I buy back-fat from my butcher to make salami and chorizo and often that comes with more meat on than that!

It looks nice and juicy though


timberjet said:


> You should see if you can find a reliable meat probe. Pork loin is done at 145 to 150. I take it out at 135 and wrap with foil. It will continue to cook as it sits for a while to get it to temp.


I know that it is technically safe to eat at this temperature however I do like my pork a little more done than this.

One way of keeping very lean meat juicy during extended smokes is to foil it after the first 3 hours.


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## adenjago

Ahhh okay maybe it  was the wrong joint to start with, but it was a cheap one half price from tesco..so It was no big loss apart from the taste, but my dog seems doesn't seem to fussed about it

So if I was going for something like pulled pork, what would be the best Joint to use ?, as I have noticed the word pork butts but I think that is an american term and doubt the Abattoir I use would understand that phrase ( even though they did understand the phrase ground chuck)


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## wade

The best joint to use is pork shoulder as it has the right amount of fat to keep it moist during long smokes and allows it to pull well. Even though it is called "Butt" it does not come from the rear end of the animal. The word Butt comes from the wooden casks in which they used to be packed in Boston - yes like "water butt".

You can buy them either bone in or boned and rolled. If rolled then snip the string and flatten it out before smoking. This will give you more surface for the rub and also a more even cook.


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## kc5tpy




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## timberjet

Yep Wade is right on. I don't know if the term Picnic is used there but that is the upper front shoulder and makes great pulled pork. In the northwest of america you see Picnic ham or roast in the stores. The lower portion of the front shoulder is the butt, but once again here it is called just Pork Roast either bone in or boneless. Then you have Country style ribs which are not ribs at all but cut up shoulder made to look like ribs. Confused yet. Me too. I was really confused until I found out what you guys were calling a Joint. lol By the way there is nothing wrong with pork loin. I like to filet it out and stuff it with different vegetables and such, then roll it back up and wrap in bacon. Man oh man, good stuff. I saw you have a second level in your drum. You can place a disposable aluminum pan there to catch the drippings to either save for gravy or the like, or just to keep the grease from dripping down in your UDS. Personally I like the fat to hit the charcoal and create another layer of flavors from the char that happens. You can experiment with the doneness of your pork but do expect some pink color just from the smoke penetration especially if you happen to be using cherry and or apple. My favorites. One last edit, you can also brine your loin to make it even juicier if you like it more well done. 1cup salt and 1cup sugar to a gallon of water. Happy smoking. Timber


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## adenjago

cheers Wade, Danny ,timber

Im thinking of doing some pulled pork this friday as we have a little Halloween gathering arranged, but obviously I would want a better outcome than the loin for the guests, I know the timing is not great as I would have wanted a few test runs first.

so with the Pork shoulder I think on the Kettle bbq I pulled it off when the internal temp was about 180, I assume that should be temp I should be aiming for as that was fine, would you keep the Joint foiled for the rest of the cook ?

is there any general on the size of the joint to cook time (obviously the Smoker is a variable in that equation)  what size joint would feed 5-6 people in regards to pulled pork and is there any benefits between the types (rolled, boned or with bone)..

I have also got to a get a Wireless temp gauge so I'm stuck with an instant one, which is obviously a bit of an issue as every time I open the lid the temp drops by 50, closing the exhausts brings it back up to 200 after 10 minutes,  I did start with the air inlets fully open as i read that somewhere on this forums so I assume that will be the way to go again.. 

sorry for all the Q's, but I trying to cover all bases this times..

Ade


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## timberjet

I would look for a 6-8 pound Butt for that many folks. You may have leftovers and you will want some the next day trust me. You should figure at least 2 hours per pound plus an hour or two resting. I take my pulled pork all the way to 205 degrees. If you would rather have it sliced 180 is fine. I like to run my UDS at 235 degrees. Well, that is where it likes to run so I just go with it. You can foil once it reaches 165 with some apple juice double wrapped in foil and finish in the oven if you wish or go naked all the way and experience what we call the bark. Bark is kind of a crunchy very flavorful outer shell that develops over time in the smoker that seals in the juices and is just awesome once you shred the meat and mix it all together. You will want to try a good finishing sauce such as JJ's.which I will get the link for you here in a minute. This is a very good and well thought out tutorial from one of our members here. This is how he does it and I have had great results just like this. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/140055/boston-butt-pulled-pork-step-by-step If you have any questions, fire away. You could end up with something like this













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__ Jul 26, 2014


















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__ Jul 26, 2014


















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__ Jul 27, 2014


















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http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/122319/jjs-finishing-sauce-awesome This stuff is awesome on pork. I can't believe I ever had PP without it.


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## kc5tpy

Pulled pork for a party!  Second "date".  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   You and Miss Sammy are about to become REALLY "intimate"! You old dog; you just couldn't wait could ya?? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Serous now.  Pork shoulder is pretty forgiving.  You should do fine.  The fat and connective tissue help to make a pork shoulder a good choice for the smoker.  I will try to answer your questions but others may have other ideas.

No reason you can't do the shoulder on the UDS or the kettle.

I would take that shoulder to an IT of 200 and then rest for at least 1 hour.  That should take it to 205-210.  That shoulder should pull well at that IT.

Well, bone in bone out?  2 schools of thought.  Bone in adds flavour.  If bone out as Wade said don't cook it rolled if you are adding a rub.  I don't often use rubs but if I were cooking a boneless shoulder I would cut the ties, add salt and pepper and smoke it that way.  Makes for a more even cooking temp as per Wade.  Most of the time I can't argue with Wade.  At first I thought; an Englishman making BBQ??  NAH!!  When we first met I kept my eye on him.  Watched him like a hawk.  Come to find out he makes some really good smoked salad!  I hear he can also scramble a couple eggs.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





As for how much pork to cook,  how many sides are you having?  IF I were doing it for a party, I would smoke about a 5-7 kilo pork shoulder and freeze the left overs.

You do really need a good dual probe meat therm.

So there are my suggestions.  Good luck.  If you need any more help just post a question.  My advice would be to start a new thread for your party.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## timberjet

KC5TPY said:


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> Serous now.  Pork shoulder is pretty forgiving.  You should do fine.  The fat and connective tissue help to make a pork shoulder a good choice for the smoker.  I will try to answer your questions but others may have other ideas.
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> No reason you can't do the shoulder on the UDS or the kettle.
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> I would take that shoulder to an IT of 200 and then rest for at least 1 hour.  That should take it to 205-210.  That shoulder should pull well at that IT.
> 
> Well, bone in bone out?  2 schools of thought.  Bone in adds flavour.  If bone out as Wade said don't cook it rolled if you are adding a rub.  I don't often use rubs but if I were cooking a boneless shoulder I would cut the ties, add salt and pepper and smoke it that way.  Makes for a more even cooking temp as per Wade.  Most of the time I can't argue with Wade.  At first I thought; an Englishman making BBQ??  NAH!!  When we first met I kept my eye on him.  Watched him like a hawk.  Come to find out he makes some really good smoked salad!  I hear he can also scramble a couple eggs.
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> As for how much pork to cook,  how many sides are you having?  IF I were doing it for a party, I would smoke about a 5-7 kilo pork shoulder and freeze the left overs.
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> You do really need a good dual probe meat therm.
> 
> So there are my suggestions.  Good luck.  If you need any more help just post a question.  My advice would be to start a new thread for your party.  Keep Smokin!
> 
> Danny


Hahahaha.... that is funny! Stirring the pot danny?


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## timberjet

I like bone in. It is purely personal preference but I think it does add something. Plus my dog loves the bone after I cook it down for stock. Which I always do to freeze for future soup starter.


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## kc5tpy

Hello timberjet.  Stirring the pot??  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   I hear Wade makes good scrambled eggs!  I also hear his quiche is "to die for"!  Now in my opinion REAL MEN don't eat quiche but what do I know?  Answer is VERY little.  I hear he smokes some beef now and then but dunno if he has the skills?  I shouldn't tell this but I hear he cooks his beef in the oven and then puts it in the smoker for the last 30 minutes of cooking time to add a little smoke flavour.

Hello Wade.  I am sure you know I am takin tha piss my friend.  I would gladly take your que to any Texas BBQ I have ever been to.  You know what I think of your smoked food!  You got skills my friend!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## wade

Lol Danny. I am not too proud to admit that I do a mean scrambled egg and do quite often cook quiche. I blame my mother who booked me on my first cookery course when I was 17 - so that I would be able "to survive" when I left home. Looking back on it now I think she may have just been trying to drop a big hint !

Hi Ade - As Danny said I would take the shoulder up to about 85-90 C (185-195 F) and then rest it in several layers of foil for at least an hour before serving. It should then pull really easily.

As to how much to cook? Danny's 5-7 kilos estimate sounds good and as he says it freezes very well in the unlikely event that you have any left over.

Being your first time you may want to look at two smaller joints rather than one large one - as they will be easier to manage and will not take quite as long to cook, As Timber says, you will get a little more pork flavour with the bone in however you will be able to make up for this with a higher proportion of caramelised bark on the smaller boned joints - swings and roundabouts. I must confess that I mostly smoke the boned pork shoulders myself.

The UDS will be great for the pork shoulder - as will the Weber. Which do you feel more comfortable using?

I also plan to do a couple of pork shoulders too over the weekend to compare the performance of the new coconut briquettes with the Heat Beads. We could call Saturday "UK official pork day" 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Don't forget those pictures


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## adenjago

thanks for all the helpful replies.....lots of info to digest..

thanks for link timber....i will be absorbing as much info I can.

one more question, for the first date i filled the fire basket a quarter full and then put about half full a Chimney smoker on top.... that got the Smoker up to 200 and kept it there for 5 hours ish

to get Sammy a little hotter up to 235 as Timber has suggested would that be put more coals in the Chimney ?

ade


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## timberjet

once you get the basket fixed you will be able to get any temp you want. If not then you might look at airflow. It looks like your intake is fine. Maybe you might need more exaust. I bet you just need to get that basket up so the air is going to the bottom of the coal with no obstruction. I have had mine up to 500 for pizza before.


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## adenjago

Cheers timber,  Like with the Air inlet should I be starting with all four exhuasts open ?

gona be on the lookout today for either larger bolts or small depth Pizza Pan.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  As timber says, I think an air flow problem to the bottom of the basket.  I also like Wade's idea of 2 smaller shoulder if you can find them.

I would start with everything wide open.  Now here is where it becomes very intimate for you and your smoker.  It's an experiment from here on: as it reaches a certain temp start closing down your inlet.  Then at another temp close one exhaust then a second as needed.  What those temps are depends on airflow and how fast YOUR smoker comes up to temp.  Now you can let it go until it reaches temp and then start closing it down.  I can guarantee the smoker will get too hot and you will be left with 2 choices, start the meat at a hotter temp or waste charcoal as you wait for the temp to come down.  The trick is to start slowing it down and level it out JUST as it reaches temp, 225 in this case.  Good luck.  Don't forget to take picts as I usually do.  Write down everything you can think of as it happens so that you can recreate or tweak it next time.

Now here is my advice and many old die hards will strongly disagree:  don't stress too much about the temp.  If you were smoking cheese or salmon or sausage then temp control becomes important.  For a pork shoulder, if you can hold it between 200 and 300 you'll be fine.  225-250 is ideal but a little low for a while or a little high for a time won't ruin that shoulder.  Same for a brisket.  I smoke brisket between 300-375.  And I lean to the high side.  Most folks say 225.  I want to smoke it AND eat it the same day.  My days of starting a brisket at 22:00 - 0:00 are all over with.  TOO darned old for that stuff now!  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

Just got Some longer M10 bolts, so there is now a 2 1/2 inch gap between the top of the ash pan and the bottom of the basket.

also went the butchers and got a Pork shoulder, there wasn't that much choice, about 4KG but I have had chopped in half,  but also  gone for the Bone in,  gonna try and get a simple rub together and finish prepping tonight and let rest overnight ready for smoking tomorrow. 













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 30, 2014






updated Fire Basket...with 2 1/2 inch gap 













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__ adenjago
__ Oct 30, 2014


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## wade

Wade said:


> The best joint to use is pork shoulder as it has the right amount of fat to keep it moist during long smokes and allows it to pull well. Even though it is called "Butt" it does not come from the rear end of the animal. The word Butt comes from the wooden casks in which they used to be packed in Boston - yes like "water butt".
> 
> You can buy them either bone in or boned and rolled. If rolled then snip the string and flatten it out before smoking. This will give you more surface for the rub and also a more even cook.


Ade - Here is one of the boned pork shoulders I have bought for this weekends briquette comparison. It weighs just over 6 Kg (13.5 lbs). You can see how much fat marbling it has - which is what makes it so good for pulled pork. Butchers will usually sell these rolled and tied however I prefer to buy them flat. You would be surprised what some butchers try to hide in the middle when it is rolled - it is a good place for some to hide a lot of additional fat. Even if you do buy it rolled It is best to cut the strings and open it up before using.













Shoulder 2.jpg



__ wade
__ Oct 31, 2014






A lump of shoulder this size will fit in the Weber (just) however I usually cut them in half - but you could cut them into smaller chunks which will make them more manageable to smoke.













Shoulder with rub.jpg



__ wade
__ Oct 31, 2014






This is now ready to be vac packed and placed in the fridge for 36 hours. 36 hours isn't a magic time - purely convenience. I just find that I usually pick the meat up in the evening on my way home from work and I start cooking early in the morning. If I bought it the day before and applied the rub that night it would only get about 12 hours. I therefore usually buy it 2 days in advance which which means that the rub gets a day and a half contact in the fridge.


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## timberjet

Your basket looks great. I don't see any problem there at all. Good luck and don't forget the Qview.


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## adenjago

I have been battling with smoker for most of day....started at 10:30 as and midday still around about 150...both inlets open all exhuasts open...only at 15:30 has the uds got to 200...

I loaded the coal basket a bit more than before,  could it be that basket was too full ? So the air is not hitting the fire ?

I will I upload the timeline once finished, as I have advised I have been checking every hour and sometimes half hour.

I did throw some drumsticks on at midday and pulled them off about 3 as they were done and tasted nice and jucy..



Loaded basket with layer of lumpwood












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__ adenjago
__ Oct 31, 2014






The drumsticks which were greatv and jucy












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__ adenjago
__ Oct 31, 2014


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  I think I see your problem now.  The basket clearance looks great now.  Let's see if I'm right.  Did you load the basket and then dump the lit coals from the chimney on top??  If you did, with that narrow of a basket the only thing burning were the lit coals and a few that were maybe touching those.  The UDS works like a chimney.  the air comes in the bottom and the fire and heat is then drawn through the barrel and then out the top.  The more airflow the faster the surrounding coals ignite.  the hotter the UDS will get.  As they burn the ash falls through the bottom of the basket and allow other coals to ignite.  It's like lighting a fireplace.  You start a fire and then add coals to the fire.  What you had was the coals on top burning and the ash falling down on the coals you were hoping to ignite.

IF I am wrong and you lit the coals from the bottom, then you have an airflow problem.  Not enough air in or not enough out or both.  Just my opinion.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

Hi Danny,

Exactly correct, I watched a you tube were someone loaded the coals from the bottom and dropped in the hot coals not top...I suppose Im learning the hard way in more how not to do it, but I do sometimes think you learn more that way....Everyday's gone be a school day With Sammy Smoker.

the Smoker started to die about 02:45 (yes in the morning)...so as it was stupid o'clock in the morning i decided to check the internal which was about 180, and with my smoker die'ing, pulled it off, as I tried to lift it out it was falling of the bone which was a good sign...but also filled my temp gauge it melted plastic..damn it....it's my birthday in 10 days, got my eye on a Maverick but not sure which I should go for as between ET732 or ET733 as there is only a Fiver difference in price...

left it in several layers foil till about 03:30 in the morning as advised, and then cut the the fat off and started to pull apart which it was just completely falling off .....Im certainly see a future for the relationship and it getting more serious.

it could become a habit have pulled pro for breakfast, I could get use to this 

Many thanks for all who helped,   I can see another Smoke happening before Xmas...

Very happy with the results




















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__ adenjago
__ Nov 1, 2014


















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__ Nov 1, 2014






with some Newman's Sticky BBQ sauce, very nice, will need to sort my own sauce out, but at 3 in the morning i grabbed what was in the cupboard













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__ adenjago
__ Nov 1, 2014


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  Sounds like you had a long fight with a VERY short stick.  Looks like the shoulder turned out well though.  Sometimes you have a bad day and need to just cut your losses and head for the oven.  No shame in that.  We have all had 'em.  The rain started almost immediately after putting steaks on the smoker once.  I thought, what that hey; oven, aluminium foil, wood chips; how bad can it be??  All the windows wide open, front and back door open, this should work right?  DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!  Our house smelled of smoke for 4 days.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Glad all turned out well in the end.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## adenjago

Hi danny,

I think your right,  I'm learning more how not to do the smoking at the moment......but these are all things i taking on board of next smoke...

Im not sure my wife would appreciate the house smelling of smoke,  she is not very happy about the garage being smoky,

I have noticed again there is a a lot of fluid at the bottom of the smoker, I don't think it's fat, it looks like water (from the smoke maybe ?),  so I'm having to mopp it as best i can with kitchen towels,  I assume this normal ? I'm think looking into getting a bigger pan pan at the bottom just to catch the water


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## kc5tpy

Hello Ade.  WOW!  Now you've put me "on the spot".  Can I phone a friend?  PLEASE!!  The truth is it could be one of two things in my opinion.  One is ok, the other is a problem.  If you don't now i would suggest you use a drip pan under your meat in a UDS simply because it's a pain to get that out of the bottom of the UDS.  IF; as I suspect, it is just the drippings from the meat:  "A" you are losing some good flavour you could pour back onto your meat, and "B" by not catching it you are making work for yourself cleaning it out.  Now the bad news.  If it is truly condensation, you have an problem.  You did have trouble getting Sammy up to temp..  I think we may have solved that with the way you build your fire.  Meat in your smoker will tend to "steam" if not up to temp and poor air flow.  It could be that because of poor air flow condensation is collecting on the lid of your UDS and then dripping back down onto your meat.  Your lid is flat which will allow the condensation to drip down anywhere.  Many folks use a domed lid on their UDS which sort of forces any condensation to roll down the side of the lid and barrel.  Your next smoke get 'er up to proper temp.  Then when you check your meat have a look at the lid.  If you see moisture on the lid then changes should be made.  It may be air flow, it may be the flat lid.  While seasoning on your smoker is a good thing, condensation dripping off that seasoned lid will add nasty flavours to your meat.  Well that's my best advice, maybe someone knows better.  Hope it helps.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## timberjet

You might want to make sure and leave at least one of the valves open when storing the smoker, I leave two open for a cross draft to help dry out any condensation that develops between smokes. Also buy a cheap EZ up shelter, that should keep everyone including you happy while smoking in the rain. I have always had the flat lid and have not had the condensation problem with mine. I do have quite a bit bigger basket than you do. I don't know if that would be an issue or not anyway. What type of charcoal are you using by the way? I have heard it can be difficult to get good charcoal over there. Is it possible that your coal is damp? Have you checked your thermometer for accuracy? We need to get to the bottom of this. I noticed that you leave one plug in the top vents, have you tried it with everything open? It really is not rocket science but can be a challenge at first to get it running right and set correctly. I still go with an airflow issue. I built mine very simple with the most basic design and it worked flawlessly from the very first time. My lid is original and has a small hole and a large hole with threaded bungs for sealing it up. I have one ball valve and three nipples with caps for the air. I never have to have any of the caps off except to get it up to temp initially. I like to fire it up to 300 or more at the start to sterilize the grates and just get everything warmed up good, then I shut the caps on the nipples and close the ball valve a quarter of the way. It goes right to 235 every time. On very windy days I close the smaller hole in the lid as the temp will ride up with some draft caused by the wind. I am eyeing the lid and the way those elbows are maybe the culprit or maybe you need to add a few for more airflow. Also, I just dump a quarter of a chimney full of lit coals on the top so that should not be a problem Try some things different and don't give up. You will get it figured out. Happy smoking, timber.


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## adenjago

Hi Timber, Danny

as normal a wealth of experience and knowledge, 

I have only done two smokes, both times have had the water issue, but both times I have had issue's with get the smoker up to 200, the highest it has gone is 225, so both times it was not up to temp on both occasions  

but even if the lid is domed won't the condensation still accumulate at the bottom when it has dripped down ?  I have seen many on this forum with a flat lid and youtube who don't seem to or have not mentioned the issue have the same issue

the picture with one or two of the nipples is when I have had to pull the Lid off, so I have found that blocking one or two of the exhaust helps bring the temp back up when closing the lid....but again this could be cause of the problem it being up to temp...when starting both the inlet valves are open and all exhausts are open,

certainly no intention of giving up, as I have tasted the potential of the smoker with the pulled pork, and the people have given the pulled pork to have had nothing good things to say and pestering about the next one.

a mixture of Charcoal and Lumpwood, normally from a garage nearby and was brought the day before.... the same I have used for my Kettle BBQ but obviously I understand Smoking is a different kettle of fish,  I will be looking into in these Heatbeads that I think wade has mentioned previously as they seem to be the dogs danglers..













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__ adenjago
__ Nov 3, 2014


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## timberjet

Hmmmm, do they sell Kingsford Briquettes in England? It could be the charcoal I guess. I have not seen those brands here in the states but I swear by kingsford. I have heard wade and danny mention Heat beads before. My smoker does not get water in the bottom unless it is totally sealed up in wet weather for long periods of time. I have never had a condensation issue and it is quite humid where I live, likely the same or near same latitude as you. That said the next hot fire you get going in there should take care of that anyway. Soon enough, that UDS will get ugly from use but still put out some of the best food you ever had.













ignition.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jul 26, 2014


















rolled ribs (1).jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jun 28, 2014






Another thing is do you use wood in there or just that lump? Lump doesn't add much in the way of good smoke flavor. Keep your eyes open for fruit trees and vineyards and maple trees, oak, or whatever else you can find over there. Some wood in there might help you get the temp up too. You can see my basket is loaded up for 16 hours of smoke in the top picture with some branches cut in chunks mixed around. Just some more ideas for you.


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## adenjago

cheers timberjet

any advice gratefully received.....I will look into get some off wood into basket for the next smoke.

what are the round meat in your smoker are they ribs as well ??


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## timberjet

Yes those are baby back ribs. I had way too many to fit in the smoker that day. (superbowl). I had to get creative to fit them all in there. Worked like a charm. I have since acquired A rib rack but I think I can still get more in there like that. Amazing what you can come up with when trying to fit more pork into your uds than humanly possible. Hahaha.....


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