# How easily should pellets burn in AMNPS?



## redoctobyr (Aug 17, 2017)

I recently got a Gen1 MES30, and an AMNPS 5x8 pellet tray. Both are good so far, but I'm having some trouble keeping the AMNPS going. I apologize for the length of this post, but wanted to provide some details. 

Twice the AMNPS has gone out after 4-6 hours, with it sitting in the smoker, to the left of the heater. I've had foil above it at the water pan, so nothing can drip on the pellets. No water in the pan, chip loader tube pulled out some, and one time I removed the chip tray entirely. I typically run the top vent fully-open. 

I'm using Lumber Jack pellets, their mix of Maple, Hickory, and Cherry, all together. I'm storing them in a sealed container, with a desiccant packet inside, to keep them dry (hygrometer shows 25-30% humidity in the container). 

I assumed that poor airflow within the smoker was part of why the pellets went out after a while. I just finished my "mailbox mod", but using a toolbox. I raised the AMNPS up off the floor of the box, so air can get under it. The smoker is on Masterbuilt's stand, I'm using 3" flexible ducting to the toolbox, which is on the ground. I made (5) 9/16"-diameter holes at one end of the toolbox, for airflow. I have to think that's a reasonable amount of air supply. The air should flow across the tray, to the exhaust duct, located at the top other end of the toolbox. 

But even with that, I couldn't keep the AMNPS going this weekend, running at 180F. And I've tried some more this week, with similar results. I sealed up some of the gaps on the toolbox, to try and force all the air through my vent holes, so it flows across the tray. I get what seems like a good amount of air coming out the top of the smoker, but the pellets keep going out after a while. 

The last 2 nights I used leftover pellets, which were still sitting in the toolbox from the night before, so they weren't dried. I will try again with fresh, dried pellets. 

But am I missing something? Even with controlled airflow, and trying to direct it over the tray, I'm still having trouble. Do I need even more vent holes? I saw a post with the popcorn tin method, it didn't seem like airflow was a problem for him, and I think 4 holes were mentioned, though I don't recall that a size was specified. 

I wonder if perhaps my pellets are tougher to keep lit, maybe due to the Cherry wood in their mix? For an easy-to-compare test, if I just left the AMNPS outside, on the ground, should it continue smoldering for hours like that? That's a way to take the toolbox, etc, out of the discussion. If mine kept going out like that, for instance, then maybe my pellets are making things tougher. I do have some A-Maze-N Competition Blend pellets that came with the AMNPS, they're the only other pellets I have available, for comparison.


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## Rings Я Us (Aug 17, 2017)

Man, that must be frustrating. Did you read up on some other posts in here with same exact trouble? I think Bearcarver here in the forum has helped a few with that problem. I never had pellets before but I will soon. 
Do you know the microwave trick to make sure pellets are extra dry?


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## kielbasanostra (Aug 17, 2017)

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Hi Red,
Maybe I can help. I also have a MES30 and had the similar problems with the amnps staying lit.
The 1st thing I did was to put on the exhaust a tin can about 5-6 in.tall hoping to increase the draw in the smoker.
I then pulled out the chip tray and mounted a round electrical box cover to control air intake. (Pics to follow)
The other thing is to load your AMNPS and put it in the smoker unlit while the smoker warms to temp to dry out the pellets then light and re-insert in chamber.
Can't seem to upload pics?
Kielbasanostra


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## kielbasanostra (Aug 17, 2017)

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## redoctobyr (Aug 17, 2017)

Thank you both. 

- I have done some reading of posts about issues with staying lit, but I'm sure I haven't seen everything, or maybe even the most important stuff. Suggestions that I remember reading discussed damp pellets, and airflow, at least. 

- I have not tried the microwaving trick, that's on the list of things to try. As I mentioned, they're stored in a container with a silica drying packet, and the humidity in the container is quite low, so my hope is that I'm getting them dry. But I will definitely give microwaving the pellets a try. 

- Putting the pellets in the smoker while warming up is an interesting idea. This morning, actually, I'd realized I could put them in my convection toaster oven, to dry them. The air circulation would likely help dry them more quickly. 

- I hadn't thought about an extension at the top of the vent, thank you. It *seems* like there is a good amount of air coming out of the vent, but this is my first smoker, so I can't compare with anything. The electrical cover is a slick idea for regulating airflow. 

I forgot to mention that I light them with a torch, and let them burn/sit for 10 minutes. The flame is usually out by that time, I'm not sure if that's normal. If they *should* continue burning with a flame for 10+ minutes, then maybe that helps indicate something with the pellets themselves? Anyways, then I blow on them to get them glowing nicely, and put the tray in the smoker or toolbox, which has already been warming up. So I'm trying to go through the proper process to get them going.


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## dr k (Aug 17, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Thank you both.
> 
> - I have done some reading of posts about issues with staying lit, but I'm sure I haven't seen everything, or maybe even the most important stuff. Suggestions that I remember reading discussed damp pellets, and airflow, at least.
> 
> ...


The mailbox mod may not be something you want to do but was my solution. Since all the air inside your smoker has to pass the Amnps with the mailbox mod to get inside the smoker I've never had pellets go out. I have Traeger pellets, all kinds of Todd's A-maze-n pellets and when I got his 20lbs. of Hickory I dumped it into two buckets. All my pellets that came in a ziploc style bags I seal and all the others are stored open. All my pellets are stored indoors. No issues with the Amnps once lit. Smoking at a little higher temp have helped others with the increased convection/draft. 
-Kurt


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## redoctobyr (Aug 17, 2017)

Dr K, that's the sort-of frustrating thing. As described, I just finished my "mailbox mod" (except I used a toolbox). So I'm trying to force the air to flow across the pellets, but I'm still having some trouble. 

I will try again with freshly-dried pellets, and the larger air-holes that I made in the toolbox since the weekend. As well as with having sealed around the gaps of the toolbox, trying to make as much air as possible come in through my holes, and then flow across the pellets. 

Thank you for the feedback on the types of pellets you've used, along with how you store yours. It definitely makes sense that higher smoker temps would draw more air through the "mailbox", to better feed the pellets. But some people apparently use their mailbox mod for cold smoking, so there would presumably be much-less draft available in that scenario. So my hope is that, say, 225+ temps aren't completely required.


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## biaviian (Aug 17, 2017)

I had issues until I started lighting from the bottom instead of the end/side.  I even tried drying the pellets in the oven because I thought they had too much moisture and that didn't work.  I also remove the chip loader.


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## Rings Я Us (Aug 17, 2017)

You live high up in the Andes mountains? [emoji]128521[/emoji] elevate the maze a 1/4 inch ?


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## redoctobyr (Aug 17, 2017)

I torch the top, as well as the side a little bit. I can try hitting them from below as well, that's certainly worth a shot. I never removed the chip loader tube entirely, but I'd pull it out some, and I currently have the chip tray removed entirely. 

The tray is elevated maybe 1/2" or so off the ground, and I'm near sea level :)


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## Bearcarver (Aug 17, 2017)

This one even confuses me!!!

Normally if you can get it to burn for 4 to 6 hours, it will just keep on trucking' until it runs out of pellets.

And it sounds like you've done all the things I'd recommend.

However I rarely recommend a Mailbox for anything but mail, except one like this. That might be your target.

Bear


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## Rings Я Us (Aug 17, 2017)

Oh.. and there is the charcoal trick.. lol


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## candurin (Aug 17, 2017)

I fill my tray and put it in the MES while preheating.

Then just before I'm ready to load the food, I take it out and light it.  Once the food goes in, I blow out the flame and make sure the ember/cherry is good to go:

Hasn't failed me yet with any wood or wood blend I've tried.

Charcoal pellets work wonders as well (and help get the smoke ring in the food as well).


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## tallbm (Aug 17, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> I torch the top, as well as the side a little bit. I can try hitting them from below as well, that's certainly worth a shot. I never removed the chip loader tube entirely, but I'd pull it out some, and I currently have the chip tray removed entirely.
> 
> The tray is elevated maybe 1/2" or so off the ground, and I'm near sea level :)


You can try a few simple things.  

1. Microwave no more than 1 rows worth of pellets at a time.  Microwave 1min, wait 2 min, stir around and microwave for another 1 minute.  Repeat for additional pellets

2. Light from the side and underneath.  I have noticed that when lighting from the hole the pellets at the bottom for a few inches actually get lit or toasted real good and help keep things going.

3. ENSURE you get 10 total minutes of flame.  This was a key for me at first.  I noticed that if I had problems with the flame going out then I would have higher chances of issues burning pellets all the way through.  Microwaving DRASTICALLY improved my initial light and burn times.  In other words, the flame did NOT go out for the first 10 minute burn.  Also make sure you torch real good for the total 45 second count.

4. Make sure your pellets are stacked up tightly to the top of the walls (not overflowing though) and ESPECIALLY around the corner bend/turn from row 1 and 2, or any corner bend/turn.  Many people in the past reported pellets going out after about 3-4 hours which coincides with the turn and the issue was that they failed to pile the pellets up in the turn

For me the proof that I was improving the ability of the pellets to burn without issue was the initial 10 min burn.  I rarely have an issue with pellets holding a flame for the first 10 minutes now that I microwave pellets.  Without the microwaving I had pellets that would not hold the flame and would have a higher likely hood of going out on me.

Best of luck :)


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## redoctobyr (Aug 17, 2017)

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it.

TallBM, it's funny you should mention those.

Just before reading your post, I microwaved a little over 1 row's worth of fresh, dried pellets, giving them a minute at 50% power, let them sit, stirred, and gave them another 30 seconds. I did actually fill the row deeper than usual. I didn't realize they should be filled to near the top, thank you. I'd seen some people talk about the fire jumping rows, so I'd stayed somewhat below the top.

I torched it fairly hard, including the bottom, and the sides. It was probably around a minute total (more than I do sometimes). It gave a big flame, and 10 minutes later, I was surprised to see it still actually making a flame (albeit smaller). Just as you said. I blew out the flame, and blew on the coals for a bit, then put it in the toolbox.

We'll see how it goes, both in tonight's test, and this weekend. But as you said, the microwaving appeared to give a little better result during the initial burn, I can only hope they'll perform better. And if not, well, I'll keep trying to figure it out.


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## redoctobyr (Aug 17, 2017)

I was hopeful, but no success yet. Drat. Running at 180F, it smoked pretty well for about an hour and a half. Checked it a little before 2 hours, and the smoke had stopped, and there was just one little glow when I opened the box and blew on the pellets. It burned through maybe 40% of one row.

Next time I can try microwaving them for longer, to see what that does. As a test, I can also temporarily seal all the toolbox seams after putting the tray in there, to help ensure all the air flows in through the holes I made, and across the tray. The smoker's door seems to seal pretty well, I don't see smoke seeping out of it, so I don't think that's allowing air to sneak in (bypassing the toolbox).


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## tallbm (Aug 17, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> I was hopeful, but no success yet. Drat. It smoked pretty well for about an hour and a half. Checked it a little before 2 hours, and the smoke had stopped, and there was just one little glow when I opened the box and blew on the pellets. It burned through maybe 40% of one row.
> 
> Next time I can try microwaving them for longer, to see what that does. As a test, I can also temporarily seal all the toolbox seams after putting the tray in there, to help ensure all the air flows in through the holes I made, and across the tray. The smoker's door seems to seal pretty well, I don't see smoke seeping out of it, so I don't think that's allowing air to sneak in (bypassing the toolbox).


That sucks to hear that it went out. 

Getting a better initial burn may be a good sign though.  It may signify that the issue is simply airflow into your toolbox.

Is the toolbox elevated at all?  If so are there holes under the tool box so air flows from below the tool box up through the pellets?

It may just take a little finagling to get air to flow properly.  If you have a little fan you can set it up some distance away so air will continuously be flowing to/through the toolbox.  If that works then I think you have identified an air flow issue is the culprit and you just need to figure out how/where to add holes to get it to work :)


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## redoctobyr (Aug 18, 2017)

The attached pics show my current setup. 

I can certainly add more holes to the toolbox. Steel is easy to take away, it's tougher to put back, so I was trying to avoid simply going crazy with the holes. There are no holes in the bottom surface of the toolbox at the moment. I could do that, though I liked the idea of keeping the bottom of the box closed, to help contain ash, embers, etc.

An easy test is to slide the tray close to the toolbox wall with the holes, so that the air comes in right below the tray, as well as in front of it. And if I want to non-permanently simulate a bunch of extra airflow (albeit not forcing that air across the tray), I can prop the toolbox's lid open a little, to see what happens. 

If I can figure out a decent way to push air into the top of the smoker's vent (while it's running), I could look for where the smoke escapes. That might help tell me if I have an air leak somewhere else, allowing air to enter, without actually flowing across the tray. The elbow fits tightly into the chip tube hole. And the other duct connections have hose clamps around them. I wrapped some tin foil around the duct where it enters the toolbox, to try and minimize gaps there, then installed the hose clamp. 













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## Bearcarver (Aug 18, 2017)

At this point it's all about Air Flow for you, Red O,

All of the normal tips, like Nuking pellets, lighting from underneath & the sides, how long you let it burn before putting it in don't have anything to do with it going out after 4 or 6 hours.

Those things are for keeping it going in the first hour.

If your pellets are wet, it won't go 4 hours.

If you aren't getting it lit properly, it won't go 4 hours.

If you aren't letting it burn long enough before putting it in, it won't burn 4 hours.

See what I'm getting at??

I fill mine to between 1/4" and 3/8" evenly, all around & in the bends & corners. That height will keep it from jumping rows & is high enough for full burns.

So as long as you're filling it that high, you're good to go, except for getting your air flow right.

I would think your best bets would be some holes below the AMNPS in your tool box, and if necessary maybe an add-on chimney to your top MES vent. That should eliminate the need for the hassle of having to mess with a fan.

Luck be with you,

Bear


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## redoctobyr (Aug 18, 2017)

Thank you Bear.

I'll probably try propping the toolbox lid open, to see what that does for me, since it's a simple, reversible test. I can certainly add more holes if needed, or enlarge these.

I'd prefer passive solutions, like a chimney, if required, vs "forced induction". I could certainly try a fan, and I have to expect it would definitely help, but at the same time, it seems like that shouldn't really be necessary, and it adds a layer of complication.


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## Bearcarver (Aug 18, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Thank you Bear.
> 
> I'll probably try propping the toolbox lid open, to see what that does for me, since it's a simple, reversible test. I can certainly add more holes if needed, or enlarge these.
> 
> I'd prefer passive solutions, like a chimney, if required, vs "forced induction". I could certainly try a fan, and I have to expect it would definitely help, but at the same time, it seems like that shouldn't really be necessary, and it adds a layer of complication.


Exactly!!

That's why I'm glad I never needed a Mailbox & I don't recommend one until there's next to no other solution to the AMNPS smoking problem.

The MES cover fits over my MES without having to undo a connection with a mailbox.

I don't need the extra room for the MB & the ducting, etc, etc.

To me adding a fan would be a PITA, but I like everything EASY !!!  Kinda like the "Lazy Bear" you might have seen in my Step by Step Index.

Bear


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## dr k (Aug 18, 2017)

I have always torched through the hole, underneath the hole and from the bottom. 
-Kurt


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## dr k (Aug 18, 2017)

Have you tried moving the Amnps to the other end of the toolbox where you drilled holes. With the X support on the bottom of the Amnps it blocks air flow from underneath so elevating it which you may have done is a must and maybe covering holes except those infront of the row that is burning. Getting the Amnps in the diagonal air flow from your bottom intake holes to the elevated 3" hole at the back of the tool box. Or maybe there is enough leaking around the lid, slowing the draft where it's needed. 
-Kurt


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## dr k (Aug 18, 2017)

Also, if filling the middle row after five hours of burning I flip the Amnps 180 degrees so the pellets burn with the draft because I have had the pellets go out at the middle of the middle row burning against the draft. That's the center of the X support on the bottom of the Amnps. That's probably the littlest air flow from the bottom of the Amnps. 
-Kurt


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## redoctobyr (Aug 19, 2017)

I had a chance to use the smoker today. I was cooking at 275F, which of course provides more draft than the 180F I'd been using for the last tests. But I had better results, which is still encouraging.

I microwaved the pellets longer this time, a total of 2.5 minutes at 50%. Lit them with a torch, and let them burn for 10 minutes. The flame had gone out by 10 minutes, but torched them again and blew on them to make sure they were nice and hot.

Put it in the toolbox, and tried to optimize the airflow. I moved the tray closer to the holes, and propped the lid open using the box's latch. I taped up the open side of the box, except the gap near the area with the holes. Trying to allow more airflow, but while forcing it to flow by the tray.

When I shut it down after about 5.5 hours, it was still smoking nicely. That's a welcome change. I realize that the higher temperature was helping a lot, of course. But maybe with more air holes, I can get enough airflow even at lower temps.

I found that by closing the door multiple times, I can get smoke to puff out of the toolbox and ducting, showing me where I have air leaks. The elbows I'm using are adjustable, so they have about 4 rotating joints in each one. Each joint seems to leak a little air (admittedly, I don't know if they're leaking a meaningful amount). So if I decide their orientations are good as-is, I could wrap tape around those joints, to seal them, forcing more of the air to flow through my holes, and across the tray.


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## chopsaw (Aug 19, 2017)

The joints should not leak if you have the " flow " .  It's about pressure .  The pressure in the tool box needs to be higher than the pressure in the smoke box .  I'm with  Dr K  , move the tray over to the holes .  Drill another hole up top  ( in the side ) of the tool box .


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## tromaron (Aug 21, 2017)

I struggled for years to find the right way to keep mine burning. I finally dumped my bargain propane torch and bought a better one ($30). Since then I've had no problems with pellets going out. I give it aprox 60 seconds with the torch on them, then let it burn for 15 min before blowing the flame out and putting it in my MES. I have the chip loader pulled out and place the AMNPS on the right side of the bottom rack. I also place my AMNPS, loaded with pellets, in the smoker for about an hour while it warms up.


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## redoctobyr (Aug 21, 2017)

A quick update, I made 2 more holes, for 7 total, 9/16". They are located higher than the previous holes. I microwaved the dried pellets, and got them lit nicely. After 10 minutes, I got them glowing by blowing on them, and with the smoker at 180F, I put them in the toolbox. I had the tray shifted near the end with the air holes.

After 3 hours, it was still smoking, but the smoke was thinner than near the beginning. At 4.5 hours, the smoke had stopped, and the tray was out.

My concern/theory is that the air is perhaps leaking in at the gaps where the box closes, and is able to bypass my holes, and the tray. So I tried sealing up those gaps, and I will try it again when I have a chance, to see if I can get better results.

I could also try adding a chimney, or a fan, but I want to make sure I've exhausted the simpler solutions first. I hope people will forgive my ongoing posts about this. My hope is that, if I can figure this out, it may be able to also help someone else.


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## tallbm (Aug 21, 2017)

keep at it.  youll get it sorted out :)


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## tropics (Aug 22, 2017)

Red here is a simple fix that I did. Raise the AMNPS up off the floor it will get more air that way

Richie

Staples  Large Binder Clips













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## Bearcarver (Aug 22, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> A quick update, I made 2 more holes, for 7 total, 9/16". They are located higher than the previous holes. I microwaved the dried pellets, and got them lit nicely. After 10 minutes, I got them glowing by blowing on them, and with the smoker at 180F, I put them in the toolbox. I had the tray shifted near the end with the air holes.
> 
> After 3 hours, it was still smoking, but the smoke was thinner than near the beginning. At 4.5 hours, the smoke had stopped, and the tray was out.
> 
> ...


Definitely keep this coming until you get it nailed down.

One like this can help when another one comes along with the same problem late in the smoke.

Bear


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## redoctobyr (Aug 22, 2017)

tropics said:


> Red here is a simple fix that I did. Raise the AMNPS up off the floor it will get more air that way
> 
> Richie
> 
> Staples  Large Binder Clips


Thank you. I'm actually using 4-40 SCHS screws, 1.25" long, to raise it up off the ground. Those fit through the AMNPS holes, so you don't have to drill anything. Just stick the screws through the tray, and secure them with a nut from below, and you have legs, with no modifications. I had tried binder clips as well, but I had screws available, so decided to use them instead. They don't wiggle, which is nice. 

The only thing is that I may go back to shorter screws. These are long enough that it's tough to slide the tray into the normal position in my Gen1 MES, to the left of the heater. The screws get caught on the rails, I'd probably have to slide the water tray out of the way or something to slide the tray in. But when I was using shorter screws originally, maybe 3/4" long, it was able to fit into its normal spot easily, so a little shorter would avoid that problem.


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## pasmoker73 (Aug 23, 2017)

Red I checked out your post and pictures after you commented on mine and I noticed that you don't have any holes drilled on the side where the vent tube is. I suggest putting a couple small ones on that side to increase the draft in the box. I have 4 about the diameter of a pen on each side of mine and it seems to burn fine and I don't notice much smoke loss.. Hopefully that will help.

PaSmoker73


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## redoctobyr (Aug 23, 2017)

PASmoker73 said:


> Red I checked out your post and pictures after you commented on mine and I noticed that you don't have any holes drilled on the side where the vent tube is. I suggest putting a couple small ones on that side to increase the draft in the box. I have 4 about the diameter of a pen on each side of mine and it seems to burn fine and I don't notice much smoke loss.. Hopefully that will help.
> 
> PaSmoker73


Thanks, I appreciate all feedback and suggestions.

I will admit that this does seem a bit counter-intuitive to me at the moment. Draft is definitely needed. But it seems to me like I'd want all the fresh air flow to be coming across the pellets & tray, rather than providing another hole location that could contribute to the flow through the smoker, while bypassing the pellets. 

But I may simply be thinking about that wrong. I'll see how things go in my next test, and keep this idea in mind.


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## dr k (Aug 23, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Thanks, I appreciate all feedback and suggestions.
> 
> I will admit that this does seem a bit counter-intuitive to me at the moment. Draft is definitely needed. But it seems to me like I'd want all the fresh air flow to be coming across the pellets & tray, rather than providing another hole location that could contribute to the flow through the smoker, while bypassing the pellets.
> 
> But I may simply be thinking about that wrong. I'll see how things go in my next test, and keep this idea in mind.


I plugged all the pencil diameter size mounting holes on the bottom of the mailbox except the two closest to the door. The air at the bottom of the door where it hinges and the two pencil holes are all I need so no drilling was needed and I keep the top vent half closed or fully open with no difference in how the pellets burn or concerns for stale smoke. The elevated Amnps and air coming in from the floor and door hinge is the key. I may have more air going under the Amnps up through the pellets rather that over them. Plus it's higher pressure in the mailbox with fewer air openings you can tell by the volume of air/smoke coming out of the top vent being more open than the mailbox air inlet even with the vent half open. 

Maybe raising the Amnps so the top edge is even with the top edge of the tool box when the lid is open. It may force more air through the perforated steel of the Amnps being in that draft from the inlet hole(s) to the 3" exit hole of the toolbox. If you have fridge magnets you can seal holes and leaks so the air in the mailbox is faster than air in the smoker. The longer the distance between the toolbox and smoker gives greater opportunity for leaks. Maybe doing something like this pick will eliminate making any changes just getting it closer to the smoker because it has a lid air is getting in through. 













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-Kurt


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## Clenko (Oct 11, 2017)

I see Amazen recommends no water in the pan...I also notice many recipes call for water, or another liquid, in the pan...What do you guys think?


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## tallbm (Oct 11, 2017)

Clenko said:


> I see Amazen recommends no water in the pan...I also notice many recipes call for water, or another liquid, in the pan...What do you guys think?



With the MES many have reported there is no need to use water.  I have never used water in my MES and never had an issue.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 12, 2017)

Clenko said:


> I see Amazen recommends no water in the pan...I also notice many recipes call for water, or another liquid, in the pan...What do you guys think?



In an MES, water in the pan does more harm than good.
The box is so well sealed & insulated that it already holds too much moisture without adding any.
If you have a window in your door, you will see that when the condensation forms on the inside of the glass & runs down the door. Why add to that Mess. I haven't put water in my pan for over 7 years.

Bear


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## daveomak (Oct 12, 2017)

From chopsaw the other day.....
Looks good . I drilled 3 holes in my mailbox door ( after talking to you ) works awesome . Nice and clean .
Nice job on the bird .

Thanks for the compliment... Yeah, about the 3 holes.. I've tried blocking them one at a time and I think that screws up the clean smoke... 3 holes seem to do a nice job.... for me anyway....












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## Jason Gindhart (Oct 12, 2017)

I'm new to all this and just got my MES  40 BT and A-Maze-N tray today. The MES is seasoning right now. 

Can't you just put the tray in the bottom of the MES workout doing the whole mailbox deal? I don't think it would produce much heat.


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## tallbm (Oct 12, 2017)

Jason Gindhart said:


> I'm new to all this and just got my MES  40 BT and A-Maze-N tray today. The MES is seasoning right now.
> 
> Can't you just put the tray in the bottom of the MES workout doing the whole mailbox deal? I don't think it would produce much heat.



Hi there and welcome!

A number of guys do just that to smoke meat.  They pull the chip loader out at various degrees (like half way out) to make sure there is plenty of airflow for the pellets to burn.

As for heat I have read mixed reports.  If you are trying to do a cold smoke keeping temp under 65F then I think the AMNPS inside the MES may produce too much heat unless you take measures like loading frozen water jug gallons to keep temp down.  As for 100F or so "cold" smokes (more like warm smokes) I think it may not be such an issue.

When doing Salmon Lox it is my understanding that you don't want to exceed 65-70F.

Also a good tip for you.  Microwave your pellets for like a minute and 10-15 seconds and it will zap the unseen humidity that the pellets are holding onto and they should burn better in the AMNPS.  I actually to two microwave rounds 2 minutes apart just to be sure :)

I hope this info helps.


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## Jason Gindhart (Oct 12, 2017)

Thanks for the info. 

I have 10 chicken leg quarters in the smoker right now with some apple chips set at 225*. Its 42* and raining out and this machine is staying 223-227* Pretty damn impressive!


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## lovethemeats (Oct 13, 2017)

I have a MES30 gen1 and have about 9ft of pipe going from my cold smoke box to the smoker. I have the tubes for 2 reasons.  One to cool down the smoke as much as possible doing cold smoking. 2 for cleaning the smoke some before reaching the smoker and food. I also use it for normal smoking during the summer months.
I store my pellets in 5 gallon buckets with twist off lids. Never had issues with my pellets going out. The main thing is the amount of draft I have going. My intake is nice size about 3in high by 4 inches long. Lots of fresh air going in. If you do the mod and you still see issus with the pellets going out. Increase the intake size. My AMNPS at a full load onlys burns about 10 1/2 to 11hrs now if only using pellets due to the intake.


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## Jason Gindhart (Oct 13, 2017)

I just lit my A-Maze-N for the first time without issue. I used a Propane torch, the same one I use to solder plumbing, without issue. Now when I went too blow it out is another story. Took me 5 mins to blow the flame out and that was holding it at an angle so the flame wouldn't catch anymore pellets on fire, but it is smoking good now


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## Clenko (Oct 13, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> In an MES, water in the pan does more harm than good.
> The box is so well sealed & insulated that it already holds too much moisture without adding any.
> If you have a window in your door, you will see that when the condensation forms on the inside of the glass & runs down the door. Why add to that Mess. I haven't put water in my pan for over 7 years.
> 
> Bear


Thanks!  No water for today's smoke.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 13, 2017)

Jason Gindhart said:


> I just lit my A-Maze-N for the first time without issue. I used a Propane torch, the same one I use to solder plumbing, without issue. Now when I went too blow it out is another story. Took me 5 mins to blow the flame out and that was holding it at an angle so the flame wouldn't catch anymore pellets on fire, but it is smoking good now



Yup---Once you get it lit properly, not only will it not go out, but the only way to put it out is to separate the burned pellets from the unburned pellets. Then it will burn out on it's own.

I've been putting my AMNPS right in my MES (3 different ones) for 7 years, and never found need of a Mailbox.
If cold smoking, use Dust instead of Pellets, and a frozen jug of water or two will help.

So in my opinion, as long as you don't make a Heavy Smoke, you won't get any bad flavor. I've seen guys use such a Thick Smoke, you can't even see the Meat through it. That doesn't mean they need a Mailbox, it means their Smoke is too Heavy.

Bear


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## lovethemeats (Oct 13, 2017)

I've filled my water pan full of ice and then covered it. Also used a cheap foil pan and filled it full then covered.  The smoker will stay cold for hours.


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## dr k (Oct 13, 2017)

Mr. T gave a great idea to those of us that use the mailbox mod when cold smoking:  put a ziplock bag or two of ice on top of the mailbox/duct to suck out the heat before it gets to the product chamber. 
-Kurt


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## johnmeyer (Oct 13, 2017)

I had lots of problems with the taste of smoke in my MES 30. I started a post about it and chronicled my search for solutions to the problem (thinking of selling my MES). This led me to the AMNPS and, eventually, to building my own version of the mailbox mod using a popcorn can (popcorn mailbox mod).

So is the mailbox mod needed or useful when doing a hot smoke, rather than cold smoke? My answer is most definitely yes.

No matter whether you are smoking hot or cold, the externally-generated smoke is always going to give you the same smoke. The only difference is that a hot smoking chamber sucks a little more air, so you may need to adjust the airflow a little (using holes in the mod, not the vent in the MES, which should always be full open).

But the big reason for why I never put the AMNPS inside the MES any more is that the external smoking mod causes a lot of the creosote to condense on the inside of the can, on the filter I added, and on the inside of the conduit. As a result, the smoke which reaches the food is MUCH, much better tasting than if the smoke is generated inside the MES itself. 

Simply put: the food tastes better.

There are lots of little reasons I like the AMNPS inside the mod. For instance, after I separate most of the unburned pellets so I can re-use them, I can let the remaining pellets burn out (which takes several hours until they are dead cold), while cleaning out the smoker to get it ready for the next use. I can't let the AMNPS burn outside because of our massive wildfire problem here in California, as you all have seen on the news the past week.


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## Clenko (Oct 15, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> In an MES, water in the pan does more harm than good.
> The box is so well sealed & insulated that it already holds too much moisture without adding any.
> If you have a window in your door, you will see that when the condensation forms on the inside of the glass & runs down the door. Why add to that Mess. I haven't put water in my pan for over 7 years.
> 
> Bear


Thanks for the tip...Made ribs today with no water in the pan.  They came out amazing...


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## Bearcarver (Oct 15, 2017)

That's Great, Clenko!!

I'm glad to hear that, as I try to never steer anybody wrong.

Bear


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