# Should I purchase a COS (Cheap Offset Smoker) to learn fire management?



## phoenixsmoke (Sep 27, 2021)

Hi All,

I'm from AZ and been smoking meats for 4-5 years now.  Started with an MES then jumped to a homemade traditional offset (made by someone else) and then to a GMG JB pellet smoker which is my current rig.  It's been a long time since I posted here.  I'm in the market for a new offset and I'm strongly leaning on purchasing an Old Country Brazos (or possibly a Wrangler since they are available for shipping now) either from Academy or directly from bbquepits.com.  Academy is out of stock for shipping to AZ and the bbquepits.com says it will likely be at least until November 2021 until they have some to ship.  I'm itching to get started and wanted to see what you all thought if I picked up a COS to learn fire management.

I have owned a reverse flow offset before that was made by someone local, however, the metal was relatively thin and smokestack was really narrow and it was not a good experience (see attached pic).  After reading through these forums and other places and watching hours of videos I feel more confident working with a stickburner.

Would like to get some opinions on purchasing a later model Oklahoma Joe's offset or equivalent or should I just wait it out and buy the the Brazos.  I feel that with some mods it could be something to learn on.  However, I'm concerned that by using a COS I may fall into the same trap of inconsistent temps and constantly feeding the fire (every 15-20 minutes or so to maintain 250).  I figure I can purchase a used COS for $100-$150 and sell it later once I order the Brazos.


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## Chasdev (Sep 27, 2021)

The Old County smokers are good for what they cost but they need improvement to become less of a hassle to drive.
Extending the exhaust pipe is first on the list and tuning plates with a water pan near the firebox are also good ideas.
I cooked a lot of good meat on mine but the entire days of tending fire became too much for me to tolerate at my age and in the Texas heat.
In the end I was re-splitting the splits and cutting those pieces in half in an effort to keep temps down.
I did and do enjoy watching a wood fire burn but all day and in the heat...
While I do miss the off set smoke flavor, my Masterbuilt gravity rig produces almost as good flavors and with almost no fire tending chores.


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## sawhorseray (Sep 27, 2021)

I live in Gilbert and just sold my Meadow Creek SQ36 offset to a guy in Phoenix last week. No matter what offset you settle on tending the firebox in the AZ heat during the summer months gets old fast. When it's 110º out a small fire with small splits is the only way one can maintain a constant temp, and feeding the fire every 20-30 minutes is part of the program, I couldn't see anyway around it. I'm not a fan of pellet poopers or having electrical cords running all over so I opted for a 26" Weber to smoke. Using the chain charcoal method I still get some decent smoke flavor, not like an offset, but it's just about set and forget. I have no idea what a COS is, but I do know tending a offset here in the dessert requires constant attention. I ran my SQ36 with the door open from a crack to a few inches to maintain heat control, usually around 275º. You have five months a year here where the cook chamber will be over 140º just sitting in the yard with nothing going on in the firebox, that's life in the dessert. RAY


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## SecondHandSmoker (Sep 27, 2021)

I would wait for the the smoker you want then learn fire management on that specific cooker.  
Just my 2¢ worth...




sawhorseray said:


> sold my Meadow Creek SQ36



Ray,  I was wondering about the status of your SQ36.   The buyer certainly picked up a well cared for smoker.


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## sawhorseray (Sep 27, 2021)

SecondHandSmoker said:


> Ray,  I was wondering about the status of your SQ36.   The buyer certainly picked up a well cared for smoker.



Yes it was Stu. The guy came over and within two minutes pulled out a envelope with  the cash for asking price, no quibbling around. He had a couple of roofers come over to my house a few hours later to load it onto their truck. It was really heavy for two little guys, they struggled quite a lot getting it onto their truck, picked up a dent and some scratches. RAY


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## phoenixsmoke (Sep 27, 2021)

C
 Chasdev
 that's good feedback, thanks.  Summer heat was definitely a consideration and I will keep my pellet smoker for cooking in summer months.  Hoping to be able to dedicate more time to smoking meats and want to learn how to master an offset.  I have some things I want to experiment with and I also love to tend to fires so we'll see how it goes.

I have also contemplated a gravity rig especially after seeing Jeremy Yoder's review of the Old Country gravity fed smoker.  I was at a big box store yesterday and looked at the Masterbuilt units.  I still need to do more research on these; however, I'm impressed with what I've seen and may be the best of both worlds (flavor and convenience).  Which model do you have?


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## phoenixsmoke (Sep 27, 2021)

sawhorseray
 COS stands for cheap offset smoker and I edited the title to reflect that.  I also live in the SE valley so we're practically neighbors and have lived here my entire life so I completely understand the challenges of tending to a hot fire when it's 110 or more outside.  I don't mind spending some time in the heat as long as I'm rewarded with good bbq.  I'm curious how the local bbq places like Lil Miss BBQ manage their fires in the dead of summer.  Lil Miss has their smokers under shade; however, Caldwell County looks like they keep their smokers in full sun...must be brutal for their pitmasters.  I know it's much different with a backyard unit compared to a 500g or 1000g offset but there must be something to gain from how they manage their cookers.  Thanks for the reply!


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## SecondHandSmoker (Sep 27, 2021)

sawhorseray said:


> Yes it was Stu. The guy came over and within two minutes pulled out a envelope with  the cash for asking price, no quibbling around. He had a couple of roofers come over to my house a few hours later to load it onto their truck. It was really heavy for two little guys, they struggled quite a lot getting it onto their truck, picked up a dent and some scratches. RAY



He knew he was getting one helluva a deal.  
Watching the two guys load 310lbs of solid smoker into the back of a pickup truck must have been like watching two monkeys.... Well, you get the idea.

Stu


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## Smokin Okie (Oct 6, 2021)

Keep your eye out for used offsets on Facebook Marketplace or CL.     Look for something you think you can flip for what you paid for it,  or close to it.

I'm not in the market, but I keep my eye on whats for sale here in OKC,   right now on Facebook,  there's two Horizons with asking prices around $400.    They might take $300 ,  which would be an easy flip.

Just a thought.


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## dave schiller (Oct 6, 2021)

I NEVER could manage to get an even temperature in my offset while maintaining thin blue smoke when using wood.  So I now use charcoal with splits of oak or apple for flavor.  I use a BBQ Guru to maintain temp (it works) so I load a bag of charcoal in the firebox and forget it.  No more losing sleep of spending the day tending the fire.  I'm a wus and I admit it.


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 8, 2021)

Smokin Okie said:


> Keep your eye out for used offsets on Facebook Marketplace or CL.     Look for something you think you can flip for what you paid for it,  or close to it.
> 
> I'm not in the market, but I keep my eye on whats for sale here in OKC,   right now on Facebook,  there's two Horizons with asking prices around $400.    They might take $300 ,  which would be an easy flip.
> 
> Just a thought.


Thanks for the feedback.  I have been keeping an eye out on FB Marketplace, Offerup and CL.  The offsets for sale in my area (Arizona) are mostly the big box brands of thin metal offset smokers and are priced in the $50 (badly rusted and needing TLC) to $300 range.  I rarely see thick metal (3/16" or higher) brands and if they do show up they go fast.  I would jump on a Horizon at $400.


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 8, 2021)

dave schiller said:


> I NEVER could manage to get an even temperature in my offset while maintaining thin blue smoke when using wood.  So I now use charcoal with splits of oak or apple for flavor.  I use a BBQ Guru to maintain temp (it works) so I load a bag of charcoal in the firebox and forget it.  No more losing sleep of spending the day tending the fire.  I'm a wus and I admit it.


I have contemplated going the gravity feed or WSM route but I have my heart set on mastering an offset.  I'm hoping to dedicate more time to this hobby which is why I'm going the offset smoker route.


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## bill1 (Oct 9, 2021)

A MES and a Pellet machine are a whole lot less work than an offset...  

If you're sure "learning smoke management" is going to be fun for you, and you've got the time to devote to it, jump on in with a high-quality, high-priced unit.  (Note that even once you learn & master the offset techniques that are best for you, the offset will *always *be a lot more extra work than what you're used to...you're _tending _a fire...so you need to enjoy that extra work.)   But if there's any doubt, I'd go with a $150 unit and give yourself a dozen or so cooks on it.  If you're lovin' it, then move up to first-class.  You're not out much on the "starter" smoker, partic if you re-sell it.  

But if you find the extra work is not what you hoped for, either in terms of fun or food taste, I think you'll be glad you didn't invest as much money.  (Unless you're in a financial place where $1000 to you is like $100 to most.)


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## ConrodM (Oct 11, 2021)

At a minimum- I would go with a Fully Welded unit like a Old Country Pecos then add gasket at main chamber door.  I went smaller but Thicker Steel (Wrangler)  to make temp control easier.  From what I have read and it makes sense to me, the thin steel, bolt togethers smokers are extremely difficult to maintain temps which  seems like a discouraging way to start.  Spend the few hundred more and give yourself a fair chance IMHO


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 11, 2021)

bill1
 and 

 ConrodM
 thanks for the replies.

I have decided to go with a 1/4" or thicker offset.  I have also heard that it's easier to manage on a rig with thicker steel so I'm to go that route.  Even if I find out I don't like tending to a fire I would be able to recoup most of what I pay for it.


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## Displaced Texan (Oct 11, 2021)

phoenixsmoke said:


> bill1
> and
> 
> ConrodM
> ...


Good choice. It will take longer to get it up to temp, but that is the better idea.


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## ConrodM (Oct 11, 2021)

phoenixsmoke said:


> bill1
> and
> 
> ConrodM
> ...


Very good idea!  Which one are you going with? Brazos? Shirley Fab? Gator Pit?  or one of kick butt smokers?


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## Smokin Okie (Oct 11, 2021)

phoenixsmoke said:


> Would like to get some opinions on purchasing a later model Oklahoma Joe's offset or equivalent or should I just wait it out and buy the the Brazos.  I feel that with some mods it could be something to learn on.  *However, I'm concerned that by using a COS I may fall into the same trap of inconsistent temps and constantly feeding the fire (every 15-20 minutes or so to maintain 250)*.  I figure I can purchase a used COS for $100-$150 and sell it later once I order the Brazos.



I cooked on a Brazos for three years and I've had a Franklin the past six months.  I've added splits every 15 to 20 minutes on both.     I think that's gonna be pretty much standard on a backyard offset.   The splits need to be sized to the smoker.

Now that said, I've seen some  YT vids of people putting full size splits in the firebox and going off and leaving it.     That may work for them, but I got my doubts.    I won't say it won't work,  if I did , someone would come along and argue about it and tell me they've been doing that for years on their favorite smoker.


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## Displaced Texan (Oct 11, 2021)

Smokin Okie said:


> I cooked on a Brazos for three years and I've had a Franklin the past six months.  I've added splits every 15 to 20 minutes on both.     I think that's gonna be pretty much standard on a backyard offset.   The splits need to be sized to the smoker.
> 
> Now that said, I've seen some  YT vids of people putting full size splits in the firebox and going off and leaving it.     They may work for them, but I got my doubts.    I won't say it won't work,  if I did , someone would come along and argue about it and tell me they've been doing that for years on their favorite smoker.


No, I'm with you. I have had splits that are a bit larger in size. No way I could just leave them unattended.


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## ConrodM (Oct 11, 2021)

If I get the right Moisture Content of wood then I can go 35-45 minutes on my wrangler- otherwise it’s 20-30 minutes. Either way- You Don’t Set and Forget or get distracted for long. I Love It!!
You also have to consider how much of a temperature rise/drop you are willing to live with.  I typically go with 30 degrees: 20 high, 10 low.


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## ConrodM (Oct 11, 2021)

Displaced Texan said:


> No, I'm with you. I have had splits that are a bit larger in size. No way I could just leave them unattended.


Yep- and I would have to see to believe


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 13, 2021)

ConrodM said:


> Very good idea!  Which one are you going with? Brazos? Shirley Fab? Gator Pit?  or one of kick butt smokers?


I'm leaning on having one built for me.  Old Country is saying that they are backordered until at least November and Academy doesn't have any Brazos' in stock to ship.  I've considered Bell Fabs but he's also 10-12 weeks out.  I'm really trying to keep it with $2K.  I figure if an offset is not for me then I could always sell it down the road and not take too much of a hit.  When you start getting into the $3,500 and up range (including shipping) then I can't justify that at this point.


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 13, 2021)

Smokin Okie said:


> I cooked on a Brazos for three years and I've had a Franklin the past six months.  I've added splits every 15 to 20 minutes on both.     I think that's gonna be pretty much standard on a backyard offset.   The splits need to be sized to the smoker.
> 
> Now that said, I've seen some  YT vids of people putting full size splits in the firebox and going off and leaving it.     That may work for them, but I got my doubts.    I won't say it won't work,  if I did , someone would come along and argue about it and tell me they've been doing that for years on their favorite smoker.


I'm not looking for a set it and forget, I already have a pellet smoker for that.  However, I'm not sure I'm up for tending to an offset for a 12+ hour cook if I have to tend to it every 15-20 minutes.  What size splits are you using?  I've seen Jeremy Yoder recommend using 1"x2"x7" splits in his Franklin pit.  I can see using that size burning down every 15-20 minutes.  Even if it comes down to tending the fire that often, I still gotta try it out again.  That reverse flow I had was just horrible to cook on and most of it was probably due to my inexperience.  If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have done things much differently and tried to mod some things like the smokestack and experimented with size of the wood splits.

Thanks for chiming in.  There's tons of videos on how to manage a fire but not much info on how often to feed splits into an offset.  Helpful knowing that it's every 15-20 minutes for you even on the Franklin.


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 13, 2021)

ConrodM said:


> If I get the right Moisture Content of wood then I can go 35-45 minutes on my wrangler- otherwise it’s 20-30 minutes. Either way- You Don’t Set and Forget or get distracted for long. I Love It!!
> You also have to consider how much of a temperature rise/drop you are willing to live with.  I typically go with 30 degrees: 20 high, 10 low.




 ConrodM
 I'm hoping for at least 20 minutes and really hoping I can get 30-45 minutes between splits.  I'm sure there will be some variability depending on size of splits and how long they have been seasoned.

I agree that a 30 deg swing is something I could live with.  I'm sure it take more frequent tending to tighten the temp swings.


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## ConrodM (Oct 13, 2021)

One thing I have found is that adding a "heat sink" in the main chamber requires more fuel for a certain temperature.  The "heat sink" can be water or tuning plate or fire bricks or anything else that provides mass which will absorb heat.  What this does for me (I use the charcoal plate that came with my Wrangler) is allow me to build a larger coal bed without overheating.  Also, allows me to use larger splits-3-6 inch wedges x 6-12" long.  Experimenting and finding the best method for your pit to extend the feed rate is part of the fun to me.  Also, for the really long cooks like brisket- I use the Harry Soo method- Smoke for 6-8 hrs, then wrap (around 170-180 degs depending on color) and oven finish- Btu=Btu=Btu.  This way I save on wood and get a nap while finishing in oven last 30 or so degrees.


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## ConrodM (Oct 13, 2021)

Some more pics with info that I sent to a fellow BBQ buddy to give an example of my issues with wet wood and what I did to keep on smoking:


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## ConrodM (Oct 13, 2021)

I hope this helps! :)
Conrad


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## Smokin Okie (Oct 13, 2021)

phoenixsmoke said:


> I'm not looking for a set it and forget, I already have a pellet smoker for that.  However, I'm not sure I'm up for tending to an offset for a 12+ hour cook if I have to tend to it every 15-20 minutes.  What size splits are you using?  I've seen Jeremy Yoder recommend using 1"x2"x7" splits in his Franklin pit.  I can see using that size burning down every 15-20 minutes.  Even if it comes down to tending the fire that often, I still gotta try it out again.  That reverse flow I had was just horrible to cook on and most of it was probably due to my inexperience.  If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have done things much differently and tried to mod some things like the smokestack and experimented with size of the wood splits.
> 
> Thanks for chiming in.  There's tons of videos on how to manage a fire but not much info on how often to feed splits into an offset.  Helpful knowing that it's every 15-20 minutes for you even on the Franklin.



When I first bought the Brazos,  I would keep notes on my cooks and record times of when I added a split.    I'm not that exact any more.

There are many variables.   My splits are not exactly the same size.  I burn irregular pieces because I scavenge for my wood,  like a lot of pecan I have now came from a tree my FIL cut down a couple years ago.   That results in a lot of non uniform splits.

My perfect split would be about 2" in diameter,  and 8 " to 10" long.

But seasoning is gonna play a role.   

And the coal bed is gonna have an impact.   A good sized strong coal bed can provide plenty of heat to run my smoker at 250 to 275.   The split only provides smoke for flavoring.   I also keep some big chunks of lump charcoal handy,  maybe baseball or softball size,  and I put one of those in occaisionally.

So how long between splits is not an exact science.   I can say its not long enough for me to go inside and have lunch without looking in on the fire.  

And just the other day, I had my longest offset cook, I fed splits for 10 hours to a pork butt cook before I wrapped and took them to the oven in the kitchen to finish.   Did not have to be that long, but it was a nice day on the patio.   Before that , 9 hours was my longest cook.     Ribs are a short 3 hour cook before I wrap and take them inside.   Yardbird even shorter.

But I enjoy sitting on my covered patio.   I have my laptop.  I've got music playing.   I like being outdoors .   And I like tending to the fire.   Time flys by.    But I'm old and patient.


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## Displaced Texan (Oct 13, 2021)

phoenixsmoke said:


> I'm leaning on having one built for me.  Old Country is saying that they are backordered until at least November and Academy doesn't have any Brazos' in stock to ship.  I've considered Bell Fabs but he's also 10-12 weeks out.  I'm really trying to keep it with $2K.  I figure if an offset is not for me then I could always sell it down the road and not take too much of a hit.  When you start getting into the $3,500 and up range (including shipping) then I can't justify that at this point.


Wow! One of the reasons I went with Bell Fab last year was he built my pit in 3 weeks from initial contact. I'm sure he is just much busier now. For the price and customization, he is hard to beat.


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 13, 2021)

ConrodM said:


> I hope this helps! :)
> Conrad


Conrad, this is EXTREMELY helpful and motivating.  Your brisket and ribs look amazing, good job!  I also plan to do the Harry Soo method and finish in either the oven or pellet grill.

That's good info on the "heat sink" keeping temps in check.  I'm definitely looking forward to it and I'm already building up my wood pile.  I also bought a cordless chainsaw and looking to buy a small electric splitter soon.  I was able to score some free mesquite that I will use for the initial burn in and short cooks.  I plan to build a firewood rack out of 2x4's and cinder blocks this weekend.  I'm already having fun and can't wait to get that offset!  Thank you for for the great pictures and advice!  Love the wood deck you have your dog and pit sitting on.


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 13, 2021)

Smokin Okie said:


> When I first bought the Brazos,  I would keep notes on my cooks and record times of when I added a split.    I'm not that exact any more.
> 
> There are many variables.   My splits are not exactly the same size.  I burn irregular pieces because I scavenge for my wood,  like a lot of pecan I have now came from a tree my FIL cut down a couple years ago.   That results in a lot of non uniform splits.
> 
> ...





Smokin Okie said:


> When I first bought the Brazos,  I would keep notes on my cooks and record times of when I added a split.    I'm not that exact any more.
> 
> There are many variables.   My splits are not exactly the same size.  I burn irregular pieces because I scavenge for my wood,  like a lot of pecan I have now came from a tree my FIL cut down a couple years ago.   That results in a lot of non uniform splits.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.  I agree with  you on the split size.  I plan to source my own firewood and plan to cut to 8"-12" lengths and split to about 2" wide on average.  Seems like anything bigger would not provide clean smoke.   Living in the Phoenix area with the long, hot and dry summers should help with seasoning the wood but I plan to wait at least a year to season fresh cut wood and will use a moisture meter to test before I cook.

I'm now an empty nester so definitely have more time and don't have to shuttle kids around so I'm looking forward to spending time outside and have a good setup in my yard and can't beat AZ winters!


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## ConrodM (Oct 14, 2021)

Today I got away with a little larger splits- these are B&B Hickory that I got from Academy Sports.  Each one was about 4x12 solid Hickory and added around 30 -45 minute increments.  INTERNAL Moisture Content =22%  I was shooting for around  275 degrees- my Dial thermometer is around 25 degrees lower than Grate temperature so Dial =250 degrees was magic number . Very easy and the Aroma was Godly!


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## ConrodM (Oct 14, 2021)

I would be happy to upload my excel Cooking Log spreadsheet if there is a way and if someone would like to use it.  Today’s was Spare Ribs- trying to decide if I like them equally to cutting them down to St Louis style ribs.


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## phoenixsmoke (Oct 14, 2021)

ConrodM said:


> Today I got away with a little larger splits- these are B&B Hickory that I got from Academy Sports.  Each one was about 4x12 solid Hickory and added around 30 -45 minute increments.  INTERNAL Moisture Content =22%  I was shooting for around  275 degrees- my Dial thermometer is around 25 degrees lower than Grate temperature so Dial =250 degrees was magic number . Very easy and the Aroma was Godly!


I'm curious if you were getting thin blue smoke.  Is 22% standard for INTERNAL moisture content?  I thought the recommended moisture content is below 20% and better if it's around 10% but that may be for an external reading.


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## ConrodM (Oct 14, 2021)

Yep- thin blue to clear. I believe too dry doesn’t give as much smoke flavor.   I prefer 18-24% but have used up to 30% (wasn’t easy) with success. The way I get internal is to split the wood in half and check


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## JWFokker (Oct 19, 2021)

phoenixsmoke said:


> I'm not looking for a set it and forget, I already have a pellet smoker for that.  However, I'm not sure I'm up for tending to an offset for a 12+ hour cook if I have to tend to it every 15-20 minutes.  What size splits are you using?  I've seen Jeremy Yoder recommend using 1"x2"x7" splits in his Franklin pit.  I can see using that size burning down every 15-20 minutes.  Even if it comes down to tending the fire that often, I still gotta try it out again.  That reverse flow I had was just horrible to cook on and most of it was probably due to my inexperience.  If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have done things much differently and tried to mod some things like the smokestack and experimented with size of the wood splits.
> 
> Thanks for chiming in.  There's tons of videos on how to manage a fire but not much info on how often to feed splits into an offset.  Helpful knowing that it's every 15-20 minutes for you even on the Franklin.



On the longer cooks, transfer to your pellet burner when you're tired of tending the fire. Most of the smoke action happens in the first few hours. Once you reach 140F internal the meat doesn't absorb as much. And if you wrap you can finish in any cooker, even an oven, it won't make a difference.


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## ConrodM (Oct 31, 2021)

JWFokker said:


> On the longer cooks, transfer to your pellet burner when you're tired of tending the fire. Most of the smoke action happens in the first few hours. Once you reach 140F internal the meat doesn't absorb as much. And if you wrap you can finish in any cooker, even an oven, it won't make a difference.


Absolutely- I finish my brisket in the oven at 250 while taking a nap


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