# NITRITE free bacon...    interesting read...



## daveomak (Apr 18, 2017)

Nitrite Free Bacon: Barriers against clostridium botulinum.......

*Clostridium Botulinum*

“Clostridium botulism toxin formation can result in consumer illness and death.  It is the toxin responsible for botulism.”  (fda.gov)  By removing nitrite from the product, a significant hurdle is removed to prevent this. Nitrite allows a lower level of salt to be used. Salt and nitrite are the principal inhibitors to c. botulinum type E and non-proteolytic type B and F toxin formation. (fda.gov, p 257)

We propose the following barriers:     https://earthwormexpress.com/future-processes-and-technology/practicalstudies1/


----------



## SmokinAl (Apr 19, 2017)

I couldn't understand most of what the article said, but it seemed like a lot of precautions need to be taken to make bacon without cure & have it be safe to eat. Not to mention it was unclear about the color & taste without cure.

I think I'll just stick to using cure #1. I only eat bacon occasionally anyway.

Al


----------



## daveomak (Apr 19, 2017)

Al, morning...    My take away is, botulism is a definite problem due tot he lack of nitrite...

By removing nitrite from the product, a significant hurdle is removed to prevent this. (inferring botulism, from the previous sentence)  Sounds like politicians wrote this article...


----------



## lowslowjoe (Apr 19, 2017)

It seems much of the information speaks to botulism risks after production. I previously hadn't hardly even given that a whole lot of thought.  I don't sell any of my product, probably never will.. so I can easily control how it gets stored.

 I do find it interesting, that the study they spoke of that was done in 1990 found domestic refrigerators were seen up to 11C (52F) and that more then 65% of the refrigerators were above 5C (41F), with a mean of 6.6C (44F). When they should be bellow 5C (41F)

 Anyway... I personally don't plan on stopping using Nitrite , and I'll double check the temperatures in my refrigerators soon.. 

 Implications for anyone selling nitrite free bacon, or for those who might make it and store it in substandard conditions might be bigger then they are for me personally.


----------



## daveomak (Apr 19, 2017)

LSJ, morning...   I found the temperature of refers odd also...   "MAYBE" it's because we just moved out of the "ice box" era...    I remember the ice man delivering to my grandmothers home...  1950...   I don't recall seeing a thermometer in a refer when I was a kid..   Now I have therms in every fridge...


----------



## atomicsmoke (Apr 19, 2017)

I don't get the point of this. If it doesn't taste like bacon or look like bacon why call it bacon?


----------



## lowslowjoe (Apr 19, 2017)

atomicsmoke said:


> I don't get the point of this. If it doesn't taste like bacon or look like bacon why call it bacon?


Well you could dye it to make it look more appealing... or find some other chemical to make it taste more like bacon ( sarcasm off )

I think much of the 'no nitrite/nitrate' is consumer driven... some people relatively uninformed demanding a product without it... with companies wanting to sell them something...


----------



## atomicsmoke (Apr 19, 2017)

LowSlowJoe said:


> Well you could dye it to make it look more appealing... or find some other chemical to make it taste more like bacon ( sarcasm off )
> 
> I think much of the 'no nitrite/nitrate' is consumer driven... some people relatively uninformed demanding a product without it... with companies wanting to sell them something...


They already sell bacon cured with celery culture. For those who prefer "natural" nitrite/nitrate.

And simulated bacon bits for those who prefer vegetarian bacon.


----------



## lowslowjoe (Apr 19, 2017)

DaveOmak said:


> LSJ, morning...   I found the temperature of refers odd also...   "MAYBE" it's because we just moved out of the "ice box" era...    I remember the ice man delivering to my grandmothers home...  1950...   I don't recall seeing a thermometer in a refer when I was a kid..   Now I have therms in every fridge...


I never really put a thermometer in any of my fridges until recently... still don't have one in every fridge.  I had bought this little 'beverage' fridge and wanted to check it's ability  out, because some of these fridges had been sold such that they were incapable of going bellow 40F in their early incarnations.  The reasoning, is they were sold as coolers for caned/bottled beverages, that don't need to be bellow 40F.  So anyway, people like me who wanted a small fridge with a glass door started buying them, fortunately people who came before me had got the maker to modify their controller to allow setting the temperature down to like 32F.   The fix is not perfect... temperatures swing +/- 5F , it has no fan to improve circulation ( and even out temps top to bottom)...  I use it for curing small amounts of bacon and similar products... Once I make the products , I do not use this fridge... and wouldn't really recommend it as a real fridge..  but anyway...
 

  Part of me isn't horribly surprised by knowing many refrigerators are not staying bellow 5C. I suppose food manufactures already know that they can't truly count on consumer refrigerators being the greatest at maintaining correct temperatures. Even so... makes you kinda wonder why some big consumer fridge companies aren't being sued for making a product that isn't doing a very good job...


----------



## chef jimmyj (Apr 19, 2017)

What cracks me up is, 99% of the Nitrite in Bacon will kill you folks brag about how healthy they are from eating copious amounts a leafy greens, celery and other veggies all containing far more nitrate, that digestion converts to Nitrite, than they would eat enjoying a half pound of cured bacon daily...JJ


----------



## shyzabrau (Apr 19, 2017)

LowSlowJoe said:


> I do find it interesting, that the study they spoke of that was done in 1990 found domestic refrigerators were seen up to 11C (52F) and that more then 65% of the refrigerators were above 5C (41F), with a mean of 6.6C (44F). When they should be bellow 5C (41F)


Their data was from the UK. I wonder what a similar study would find in the US? We tend to prefer stuff colder...


----------



## HalfSmoked (Apr 19, 2017)

So here we go again another gov. intervention or some highly ed. book worm study that says what we are doing will kill us. How did some of our elders live to be a ripe old age in the days when there we no safety guide lines. I understand that some ways were dangerous but we survived. Are we all going stop smoking our meat or die from it?? We are told all of this is bad for us are you going to trash you charcoal grill?? Oops sorry but I'm a pro gov. intervention guy and some of there studies are way off base most of the time someone starts these studies and then the next thing you see is someones new cure all product to replace the bad thing. Just my $.02 worth rather its good or bad.

Warren


----------



## shyzabrau (Apr 19, 2017)

HalfSmoked said:


> So here we go again another gov. intervention or some highly ed. book worm study that says what we are doing will kill us. How did some of our elders live to be a ripe old age in the days when there we no safety guide lines. I understand that some ways were dangerous but we survived. Are we all going stop smoking our meat or die from it?? We are told all of this is bad for us are you going to trash you charcoal grill?? Oops sorry but I'm a pro gov. intervention guy and some of there studies are way off base most of the time someone starts these studies and then the next thing you see is someones new cure all product to replace the bad thing. Just my $.02 worth rather its good or bad.
> 
> Warren


I think you're misreading the intentions. It seems like these guys are saying that there is consumer pressure for nitrate/nitrite free foods and they are saying that it is possible but extremely difficult to do it safely.


----------



## atomicsmoke (Apr 19, 2017)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> What cracks me up is, 99% of the Nitrite in Bacon will kill you folks brag about how healthy they are from eating copious amounts a leafy greens, celery and other veggies all containing far more nitrate, that digestion converts to Nitrite, than they would eat enjoying a half pound of cured bacon daily...JJ


Just playing the devil's advocate: the concern is with nitrosamine which seems to form while cooking products with nitrites. Leafy greens are consumed raw or cooked wet at lower temps.

Sodium nitrite itself is a vasodilator. Actually good for your blood pressure and bedtime activites.


----------



## shyzabrau (Apr 19, 2017)

atomicsmoke said:


> Just playing the devil's advocate: the concern is with nitrosamine which seems to form while cooking products with nitrites. Leafy greens are consumed raw or cooked wet at lower temps.
> 
> Sodium nitrite itself is a vasodilator. Actually good for your blood pressure and bedtime activites.


Do we have to give up serving collard greens with our BBQ?


----------



## scubohuntr (Apr 19, 2017)

Collard greens are fine, as long as there's plenty of bacon in 'em,


----------



## atomicsmoke (Apr 19, 2017)

Shyzabrau said:


> Do we have to give up serving collard greens with our BBQ?


Like i said: greens are not cooked at the temps bacon is fried.


----------



## shyzabrau (Apr 19, 2017)

atomicsmoke said:


> Like i said: greens are not cooked at the temps bacon is fried.


I was just playing...


----------



## mr t 59874 (Apr 19, 2017)

I have 20 Lbs. of Tender Quick arriving today. I may die soon, but it won’t be from c bot, more likely from eating food that was kept in a filing cabinet.

T


----------



## atomicsmoke (Apr 19, 2017)

You must be of young age Mr.T.


----------



## HalfSmoked (Apr 19, 2017)

Can't say that I disagree with that thought but who instilled it in the public's mind that it's not good for you?? Use to be you could and did for years buy and use salt-perter now you can't even buy it my family used it in their cure for years. The military gave it to our troops to keep their hormones in control. Who stopped this ?

Warren


----------



## mr t 59874 (Apr 19, 2017)

atomicsmoke said:


> You must be of young age Mr.T.


Young, not by a long shot. At $4 a bag and free shipping, I couldn’t turn it down. If I would have ordered less I would have to pay for shipping which would have been more. Will never have to buy it again.

T


----------



## atomicsmoke (Apr 19, 2017)

I wonder what my executor would say when they read in my will "leave the bag of cure to so and so".


----------



## atomicsmoke (Apr 19, 2017)

HalfSmoked said:


> Can't say that I disagree with that thought but who instilled it in the public's mind that it's not good for you?? Use to be you could and did for years buy and use salt-perter now you can't even buy it my family used it in their cure for years. The military gave it to our troops to keep their hormones in control. Who stopped this ?
> 
> Warren


I thought that was potassium bromide.


----------



## lowslowjoe (Apr 19, 2017)

All I can say, is I sure am glad I don't eat fried celery. :)


----------



## daveomak (Apr 19, 2017)

The butchers pantry, owned by a member, has salt petre.........  

https://www.butcherspantry.com/curing-ingredients/

https://www.butcherspantry.com/curing-ingredients/













Salt Petre.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Apr 19, 2017


----------



## scubohuntr (May 2, 2017)

atomicsmoke said:


> I wonder what my executor would say when they read in my will "leave the bag of cure to so and so".


Ooooh, pick me! Pick me!


----------

