# Buckboard Bacon



## Nefarious (Apr 23, 2022)

In one week I will be able to walk with shoes instead of this boot I have to wear and am planning to make two meats, the first is buckboard bacon inspired by 

 Sven Svensson
  and his first attempt and the second will be beef bacon inspired by 

 TNJAKE
.  I'm in the process of deciding how much salt to use.

At my house I do 90% of the cooking and I add zero salt to anything, and my wife adds even less.  We went and ate at a restaurant the other day and it took 2 days to get back to normal.  Most people eat way more salt then we do.  

I'm trying to sort out my options for how to add less.  In Sven's thread for his first buckboard bacon it was said that the salt is the mechanism that distributes the cure within meat.  He used 1.5% salt and .25% cure and cured for 14 days in the refrigerator.  Say I want less salt, what would be the effect of using 1.0% salt and .25% cure and letting it cure for say 21 days?

Is there a limit for how long one can cure for, i'm sure there is?


----------



## DougE (Apr 23, 2022)

At 1.5%, you're already close to the minimum salt needed to drive the cure. I don't use a lot of salt either, and I don't find bacon cured at 1.5% overly salty. What you could do is cure, do a test fry, and if you find it too salty, soak after curing to leach some out.


----------



## Nefarious (Apr 23, 2022)

DougE said:


> At 1.5%, you're already close to the minimum salt needed to drive the cure.  What you could do is cure, do a test fry, and if you find it too salty, soak after curing to leach some out.


If 1.5% is close, then what is the minimum?  

If I can soak the salt out it isn't for safety, just for taste.

I have a 9lb shoulder, maybe I'll make 3 versions 1.5%, 1.25%, and 1.0%.  Is there a problem if I cure the 1.25% and 1.0% longer, say 21 days to see what happens.  If the cure doesn't go all the way through, I will notice the color change?

Is there a problem curing for 21 days?


----------



## DougE (Apr 23, 2022)

The salt drives the cure and has little to do with safety after the fact and some can be soaked out. There isn't a problem with longer curing times, but if you don't have enough salt to move the nitrite into the muscle, time is doing nothing for you.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Apr 23, 2022)

Nefarious said:


> Is there a problem curing for 21 days?


Only if you value your health and that of who you feed it to.

Meat curing is a fun hobby and a tasty one, but make no mistake, it’s not a game. You cannot cure meat safely with less than 1.5% salt. Going longer as you said to 21 days is even worse, you have almost no protection from bacteria going longer is not a good idea with low salt.

Do you understand the process of meat curing? What’s happening and why it’s safe, or even done?


----------



## DougE (Apr 23, 2022)

1.25% salt is about the lowest I'd go. That will give you 1.5% with the salt in the cure. And don't conflate what salt level is safe or not after curing with what is needed during. there is nothing unsafe in removing some salt after the meat has cured.


----------



## Nefarious (Apr 23, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> Only if you value your health and that of who you feed it to.
> 
> Meat curing is a fun hobby and a tasty one, but make no mistake, it’s not a game. You cannot cure meat safely with less than 1.5% salt. Going longer as you said to 21 days is even worse, you have almost no protection from bacteria going longer is not a good idea with low salt.
> 
> Do you understand the process of meat curing? What’s happening and why it’s safe, or even done?


Well,I'm reading in the beginning of 'Home production of quality meats and sausage'. And in many places it talks about topics like 'What would happen if curing time is shorter or longer' and it doesn't say it will kill me.  

there are also other places that suggest curing time depends on size of meat.  

And I admit i don't understand the mechanism very well, I'm still reading and asking questions.


----------



## DougE (Apr 23, 2022)

Salt drives the cure into the meat, not time. Well, it's kind of both, but absent enough salt to drive the process, time isn't going to do anything but make the meat unsafe. 


Nefarious said:


> And I admit i don't understand the mechanism very well.


It's a simple process of osmosis. The salt seeks equilibrium and will move into the meat until there is an equal concentration of salt outside and inside the muscle. If you haven't got enough salt to drive the process, no amount of time will fix it.

We cure longer than actually necessary for flavor development. Most of my buckboards are fully cured in 6 days, but will have a better flavor profile by letting them go 2 weeks.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Apr 23, 2022)

Nefarious said:


> Well,I'm reading in the beginning of 'Home production of quality meats and sausage'. And in many places it talks about topics like 'What would happen if curing time is shorter or longer' and it doesn't say it will kill me.
> 
> there are also other places that suggest curing time depends on size of meat.
> 
> And I admit i don't understand the mechanism very well, I'm still reading and asking questions.


I’m glad you are reading Marianski. That’s excellent, but give me page numbers in his book where he says it’s acceptable to cure meats at 1.5% salt. He does not recommend salt in curing lower than 2% salt. Cured meat done safely is not for the low salt crowd. That said, with refrigeration I think it can be pushed lower, but I just did some hams at 1.5% salt and total time in refrigeration including curing and smoking was 3 weeks in the fridge. They molded. 1.5% salt is minimal and buys you no, zero, extra time in the process.


----------



## DougE (Apr 23, 2022)

Let's try this in simple terms. You have a pile of dirt that requires 5 dump trucks to move, but you only have 4. No amount of time is going to make that dirt fit in the 4 available trucks. Salt is your carrier (dump truck), if you don't have enough to haul the load (nitrite), no amount of time will change that.


----------



## Nefarious (Apr 25, 2022)

SmokinEdge
 , 

 DougE
 ,
I reread the curing section of the book and have some page numbers to identify the passages. I am just wanting to make it clear why response is as it is?

Page 34
Factors that influence curing:
Salt concentration of dry mixture or wet curing solution, higher salt concentration, faster curing.

Page 44
If an insufficient amount of nitrite is added to the meat the cured color will suffer. 
In a ham, the poorly developed color will be easily noticed. 
Some sections may be gray, some may be pink and meat will not look appetizing.  

Nitrite works much faster and the color is fixed well before salt can fully penetrate the meat.  => Salt does not carry the nitrite into the meat, they operate independently.  

Page54
What happens if curing is shorter or longer?
If longer nothing happens to food if the process is under refrigeration.

Nowhere is there a reference to any salt being used when curing with cure #1.


----------



## Sven Svensson (Apr 25, 2022)

I am not a fan of overly salty bacon. All I can add to this is that 1.5% was perfect. It was not by any means too salty. I was surprised and elated. I think my buckboard went between 2-3 weeks. Best bacon I’ve ever made. Give it a try. If it’s too salty then regroup.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Apr 26, 2022)

Nefarious said:


> Nowhere is there a reference to any salt being used when curing with cure #1.


I just almost didn’t even respond, but it may be important for others reading these threads.

The whole book is about “curing” foods safely. To cure means to preserve. This is done specifically with salt, this is our first line of defense from bacteria. The book separately talks about salts and nitrate/nitrite because pretty much everyone who reads the books understands the connection between the two and the context in which they both are explained. They are both extremely important and as such Marianski takes the time and pages to explain in detail how they both work.
Salt has a physical effect on meat, diffusion, this causes water inside the meat to move to the outside while the sodium goes inside. This process is how nitrite goes into the meat. Salt is the carrier of the nitrite. The nitrite we use is sodium nitrite. Cure #1 is a mixture of 6.25% sodium nitrite with 93.75% salt, this is not by mistake. This combined with salt is the best way to cure meats. The book is very specific about this.

I suggest you follow the methods and process outlined by Marianski. Otherwise you may get yourself or someone else sick.


----------



## tryingtolearn (Aug 2, 2022)

Can I make buckboard bacon from a fresh ham?


----------

