# questions about Umai Dry bags...



## Ty520 (Jul 21, 2021)

Can any of you with familiarity with Umai Dry bags provide some advice?

Tried contacting the company, but for whatever reason, they seemed to be unable to understand what I was asking - language barrier with their third party tech support or something, I suppose.

I see that they have several different diameter bags for salumi,  but no descriptions for what sized bag to use for which type of salumi you want to make. Most of the negative reviews seem to revolve around people not knowing/ordering the right sized bags for their curing project, so I was hoping some of you can any of you give me a run-down of what sized bags to use for which style of cured sausage?

...and also for charcuterie if possible?


----------



## tx smoker (Jul 21, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> I see that they have several different diameter bags for salumi, but no descriptions for what sized bag to use for which type of salumi you want to make.



I've done tons if stuff in the uMAI bags. As far as sausage goes, in all honesty it's purely a matter of personal preference. If you want smaller stuff for appetizers or pizzas use the size you'd like for that....1 1/2" to 2". If you want full sandwich sized sausage you'll want something in the 4 1/2" to 5" range. There is no set diameter for any specific sausage. It all comes down to what you want. Don't be afraid to experiment though. You'll get nothing but top shelf stuff and you can adjust size on the next batch if you're unhappy with the size, but you won't be unhappy with the final result.

Robert


----------



## ritchiep (Jul 21, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> Can any of you with familiarity with Umai Dry bags provide some advice?
> 
> Tried contacting the company, but for whatever reason, they seemed to be unable to understand what I was asking - language barrier with their third party tech support or something, I suppose.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with tx smoker. It comes down to personal preference.  I have used UMAI for (3)+ years and have made many recipes using Marianski  /  Poli  and  others .  Genoa Salami works well with (70)mm casings. Cured meats with (32) mm are good with appetizer's and crackers.  I guess the "all around " casing to start with is the (50) mm. Made Soppressata  with the (70) mm last year  and this  year with the (50)mm......liked the (50) mm better. Same recipe... just preference. Live in the Northeast , so use basement from May to October. ferment in basement for (72) hours before the fridge for about a month,  
                                             hope it helps,


----------



## chopsaw (Jul 21, 2021)

I think they only sell 32 mm , 50 mm or 70 mm for salami . I always use the 50 mm . Shrinks up pretty good . 
If you're searching for Umai " bags " I can see where you may be confused . You'll get a bunch of hits like that . 
Try searching by what you want to do or make .


----------



## sawhorseray (Jul 21, 2021)

Have you tried their website?
Dry Age Steak Sausage Charcuterie Salumi Kits – UMAi Dry 

I've used their bags in the past to make capicola and lonzino, comes out great. Dry aged a few whole boneless standing rib roasts, done with that, waste too much meat for not much difference in flavor. RAY


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jul 21, 2021)

Here are the offerings for salami and charcuterie


----------



## Ty520 (Jul 22, 2021)

Thanks for all the info. I saw that you don't necessarily need to vacuum seal the bags? That you can dunk the bag under water, then squeeze out as much air as possible, and synch it shut?


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jul 22, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> Thanks for all the info. I saw that you don't necessarily need to vacuum seal the bags? That you can dunk the bag under water, then squeeze out as much air as possible, and synch it shut?


Correct. If you vac seal make sure you use the vac mouse placed inside the bag along where the seal line will be. If not then use the submerge method for the charcuterie bags.


----------



## Ty520 (Jul 22, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> Correct. If you vac seal make sure you use the vac mouse placed inside the bag along where the seal line will be. If not then use the submerge method for the charcuterie bags.



Awesome. One last question - I do not have ANY dedicated equipment for curing; sounds like fermentation needs to take place in a separate environment/container. any ideas where that could be? (open air environment is not an option)


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jul 22, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> Awesome. One last question - I do not have ANY dedicated equipment for curing; sounds like fermentation needs to take place in a separate environment/container. any ideas where that could be? (open air environment is not an option)


Hang in the closet or anywhere that will stay right around room temperature. Umaidry suggest to hang in your oven if not in use for a couple days.


----------



## chopsaw (Jul 22, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> Thanks for all the info. I saw that you don't necessarily need to vacuum seal the bags?





Ty520 said:


> I do not have ANY dedicated equipment for curing; sounds like fermentation needs to take place in a separate environment/container.


What are you making ? 
The sausage casings come with zip ties . No need to vac or dunk in water if making salami type product . Just stuff , twist and put the zip tie on . 

Again , if you're making a salami type product ,
Fermentation needs to be at what ever ( or close to ) the temp needed by your starter culture .


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jul 22, 2021)

When working with common starters like T-SPX or F-LC They ferment well at lower temps in the 68-75* F range. Giving mild European style acidification. Room temp is just right for about 48hours when just starting out. ( 0.5% dextrose)Then you can adjust time from there as you make more and learn.  No worries with humidity control with Umaidry sausage casings.


----------



## Ty520 (Jul 22, 2021)

chopsaw said:


> What are you making ?



I want to make salumi, but also charcuterie



SmokinEdge said:


> When working with common starters like T-SPX or F-LC They ferment well at lower temps in the 68-75* F range. Giving mild European style acidification. Room temp is just right for about 48hours when just starting out. ( 0.5% dextrose)Then you can adjust time from there as you make more and learn.  No worries with humidity control with Umaidry sausage casings.



How important is humidity during initial fermentation w/ Umai?


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jul 22, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> How important is humidity matter during fermentation?


With traditional salami making, and Charcuterie humidity control is very key. During fermentation humidity must be very high because of the higher temperatures so as not to create the dry ring that will later stop the salami from losing internal moisture and will fail. After fermentation, humidity must me kept at about 80% but then adjusted lower as the drying proceeds, again to stop the dry rim or the drying of the outer surface of the chub that will inhibit the removal of core moisture from the salami. This requires a specific dedicated chamber with controlling equipment to manage both temperature and humidity along with air flow. It’s a spectacular thing, but costly and very involved, but produces exceptional product, both salami and charcuterie. However not everyone is this meat science “nerdy” or knowledgable, capable or has the space and money to invest in such equipment.

Here is where Umaidry comes in. You can make salami and charcuterie with their product (bags and casing) with just the standard refrigerator in your home. No worrying about humidity and all the technical stuff. Use a good salami recipe and use the smaller casings, 32mm I think, and make some up. The smaller diameter finishes faster which will curb the wait time and keep you interested. Then once you taste the final product you will be hooked and a salami junkie like me. The depth of flavor will not be par with a traditional European salami with white mold, but it can be pretty dang good in its own right.


----------



## Ty520 (Jul 22, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> With traditional salami making, and Charcuterie humidity control is very key. During fermentation humidity must be very high because of the higher temperatures so as not to create the dry ring that will later stop the salami from losing internal moisture and will fail. After fermentation, humidity must me kept at about 80% but then adjusted lower as the drying proceeds, again to stop the dry rim or the drying of the outer surface of the chub that will inhibit the removal of core moisture from the salami. This requires a specific dedicated chamber with controlling equipment to manage both temperature and humidity along with air flow. It’s a spectacular thing, but costly and very involved, but produces exceptional product, both salami and charcuterie. However not everyone is this meat science “nerdy” or knowledgable, capable or has the space and money to invest in such equipment.
> 
> Here is where Umaidry comes in. You can make salami and charcuterie with their product (bags and casing) with just the standard refrigerator in your home. No worrying about humidity and all the technical stuff. Use a good salami recipe and use the smaller casings, 32mm I think, and make some up. The smaller diameter finishes faster which will curb the wait time and keep you interested. Then once you taste the final product you will be hooked and a salami junkie like me. The depth of flavor will not be par with a traditional European salami with white mold, but it can be pretty dang good in its own right.



Right - i was specifically asking about the initial fermentation phase before the Umai salumi goes into the fridge. My house is very dry pretty much all year.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jul 22, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> Here is where Umaidry comes in. You can make salami and charcuterie with their product (bags and casing) with just the standard refrigerator in your home. No worrying about humidity and all the technical stuff. Use a good salami recipe and use the smaller casings, 32mm I think, and make some up. The smaller diameter finishes faster which will curb the wait time and keep you interested. Then once you taste the final product you will be hooked and a salami junkie like me. The depth of flavor will not be par with a traditional European salami with white mold, but it can be pretty dang good in its own right.


Fermentation is no worries either.


----------



## indaswamp (Aug 10, 2021)

FYI, you can wrap the salami in the umia bags with saran wrap and just set them on the counter if fermentation is to be done at room temperature. This will insure high humidity so the chubs don't dry out.


----------



## Ty520 (Aug 10, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> FYI, you can wrap the salami in the umia bags with saran wrap and just set them on the counter if fermentation is to be done at room temperature. This will insure high humidity so the chubs don't dry out.



nice. how long should i give them before putting them in the fridge?


----------



## indaswamp (Aug 10, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> nice. how long should i give them before putting them in the fridge?


Depends on the culture used, the amount of sugars in the recipe, and the targeted final pH.  

Which culture are you using?

I also want to mention here that the umai casing will not dry out as easily as a natural or synthetic casing used for traditional charcuterie.  

 BGKYSmoker
 hangs his umai salamis in a closet to ferment. Maybe he will se this and give you some advice.


----------



## chopsaw (Aug 10, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> . how long should i give them before putting them in the fridge?


If you're using T-SPX you can ferment at room temps between 65 and 75 degrees F . 
No need to wrap in anything but the bag , you have no worries about humidity using  Umai bags . You will start to smell them and see the color change . I let mine go the full 72 hours , even if the color changes before that . 

Just stuffed ,





Into the fridge after ferment at 65 ish degrees . 
you can see the color change .





About 40 % weight loss .


----------



## BGKYSmoker (Aug 10, 2021)

Everyone pretty much covered it here. Fermentation is the critical part of the whole process. I have even used a plastic tote with a lid for fermenting, keeps the temp just about perfect.


----------

