# Perfect point but flat is really tough



## Jeffrey Green (May 4, 2019)

Hey all,

Today I tried my first full packer brisket. The point came out just how I wanted it to but the flat is really tough. When I pulled it the IT of the point was 203 the flat was around 199. I am guessing the simple answer is I should have left it on for longer but I was worried about the point over cooking. Any suggestions?

 Also this is only my fourth cook on my new COS (Brinkmann Trailmaster) and I am still honing in on the fire management. What kinds of problems do you expect to see from temperature swings?

I appreciate the feedback. At some point I will make a list for all the mods I have put on my COS. 

Thanks,

Jeff

P.S. Trailmaster is a dumb name for this smoker nobody is taking this beast on any 
trails. ;)


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## Jonok (May 4, 2019)

Hie thee to a local store of groceries, and there obtain some foil of Aluminium.  Preferably of the Large and Heavy Duty Variety.

Smoketh thee thy next 10-20 briskets wrapped therein.

Singly, of course, as thee must have time to reflect upon each thereafter and discern correctable deviation of thine actions and methods from the One True Way.

Yea verily, without fail wrap thee them only after having smoked without any such metallic rainment, to an internal temp of 140.

The internal temp may not be 130, nor shall thee stop at 120 except that thou then proceedeth on to 140.

160 is Right Out...

Continue thee thy cook (of the potentially succulent, but notoriously fickle) victual that the Lord thy God has seen fit to provide, and that, in the hope of His approval, thou has thus smoked and wrapped) until the texture of the probing shall be tender.
Tough is not in keeping with the brotherhood, nor shall thee rely only upon the temperature, (which, through the presumed doings of demons and necromancers) is not often reliable.

Rest the fruits of thy labors in an appropriate vessel, prior, for an appropriate time,  (having been thus wrapped and probed, for a period that may be seen as meet and right),  to feeding the multitude therewith.

Only once thou hast a reliably palatable brisket under these holy circumstances may thou proceed to attempting less than wrapping of the aforementioned protective sort.

(from an addendum to an apocrypha of a pseudo-pythonesque hadith analogue)


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## Jeffrey Green (May 4, 2019)

I wrapped with butcher paper after about three hours. I was trying not use foil, perhaps a new strategy will serve me better next time though.


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## okiefisher (May 4, 2019)

Jeffrey Green said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Today I tried my first full packer brisket. The point came out just how I wanted it to but the flat is really tough. When I pulled it the IT of the point was 203 the flat was around 199. I am guessing the simple answer is I should have left it on for longer but I was worried about the point over cooking. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


You are probably correct by assuming you didn't cook it long enough. The point has enough fat that it would have taken care of itself and not dried out but the flat wasn't cooked long enough hence the reason it was tough. I normally start probing my briskets at 200 IT and probe it each degree of rise in IT until it probes tender. I use a skewer and when it slides in like your putting it in warm butter it's done. The last brisket I done went to 207IT before probing tender.


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## Jeffrey Green (May 4, 2019)

Thank you I will probe more next time.


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## mneeley490 (May 4, 2019)

The good thing about smoking is that you can still usually eat your mistakes. Just chop it up and make some great chili or add bbq sauce and make sandwiches.


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## jokensmoken (May 4, 2019)

I think your assessment of under cooked is on the money...
I only rely on IT to tell me when I'm approaching done and when to start paying closer attention.
I use a long bamboo kebab skewer to probe tenderness...I dont pull a brisket, regardless of IT,  until I can slide the skewer full length into the brisket in two different places with no effort or resistance...for me "like a knife through warm butter" IS NOT just a saying...that is exactly what I'm looking for.
And the point will almost never be over done due to the higher fat content...HOWEVER...if that is a concern for you, it is exceptionally easy to seperate the point from the flat when you're that close to done; the point will almost lift or pull off with minimal knife work required and removing itt wont hurt the flat a bit...
So...if you're worried, remove it, wrap it and let it rest while you finish off the flat...or use that time to make those nummy nummy burnt ends. 

Good luck and keep the smoke rolling.
Walt.


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## Jeffrey Green (May 4, 2019)

This is great info. I really appreciate everyone’s responses. This forum rocks!


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## hardcookin (May 4, 2019)

Your looking for Probe tender in the thickest part of the flat.


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## noboundaries (May 4, 2019)

It's just about impossible to overcook a point on an intact packer brisket because there's so much fat in the point. I only probe the flat and final temps can vary widely.


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## schlotz (May 5, 2019)

When I wrap I wait until the stall has occurred, usually the IT is in the 150-165º range. There was no mention of what temps you were running at, but 3 hours seems a bit short for a full packer to go into the stall. JMTC :D


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## Jeffrey Green (May 5, 2019)

It was a smaller brisket, 6-7 lbs trimmed. I was trying to keep it around 250 but there was some fluctuation from 240-275 and a few outliers beyond that a couple of times but mostly it was around 250. The whole cook went faster than I planned it too though. It was at the 200 temps after I nly about 7 hours, not counting letting it rest for a hour or so in the paper. In hindsight it should have been longer though.

I wrapped when I liked the color and didn’t want it to get much darker or more smoke. 
Why do you wait for the stall? I haven’t heard that before.


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## jrisebo (May 5, 2019)

jokensmoken said:


> I think your assessment of under cooked is on the money...
> I only rely on IT to tell me when I'm approaching done and when to start paying closer attention.
> I use a long bamboo kebab skewer to probe tenderness...I dont pull a brisket, regardless of IT,  until I can slide the skewer full length into the brisket in two different places with no effort or resistance...for me "like a knife through warm butter" IS NOT just a saying...that is exactly what I'm looking for.
> And the point will almost never be over done due to the higher fat content...HOWEVER...if that is a concern for you, it is exceptionally easy to seperate the point from the flat when you're that close to done; the point will almost lift or pull off with minimal knife work required and removing itt wont hurt the flat a bit...
> ...


Are you sticking to a minimum temperature and going more until its tender? Do you go lengthwise up the flat with your skewer?


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## schlotz (May 5, 2019)

Generally I find the color matches up with the stall although that can sometimes occur part way into the stall, ie closer to 170. I’ve had smaller trimmed briskets in the 6-7 lbs range get there in about 4 hours but that’s been with grate temps at 270°. Just thought 3 hrs seemed short but every brisket can be different.


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## jokensmoken (May 6, 2019)

jrisebo said:


> Are you sticking to a minimum temperature and going more until its tender? Do you go lengthwise up the flat with your skewer?


I do not ascribe to  any minimum temps except safe food guidelines.  With roasts or briskets... it's all done by probing for tenderness..that being said I usually start probing butts, briskets and chuck roasts at an IT of about 185°F.  I've never had a large hunk-o- meat probe done below that temp and had a few goes as high as 208°F to 210°F. 
The frequency of probing depends on how tender the roast is each time I probe. The more tender the more frequently the probing...but usually not more often than every 15 minutes...its more of a feel you have to develop over time...Id guess that 10 different folks would have 10 different techniques.
When I probe brisket it gets probed across the flat in the narrow direction in two places, in the thickest area of the flat about center under the point and once about center of the other "thinner" end of the flat...
Hope that's not confusing...lol...
Walt...


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## jrisebo (May 31, 2019)

So another one didnt turn out so great again. Had a overnight smoke, around 160 foiled it and brought up the temp. Around 200 started probing, but never got tender. Ate what we could, then about 4 hours in the crockpot it then was tender. Should I cook and cook it more and ignore temperature? Should I start out with a hotter temp for the whole duration?


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## noboundaries (Jun 1, 2019)

The probe don't lie, whereas temp can be a two-faced snake of a court jester. If it doesn't probe tender, keep smoking/cooking.


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