# Love Bacon-Can't MakeIt.



## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

Good Morning

I'm new to this forum and have only been smoking for about a month now.

My family and I love bacon and I have tried a few different recipes out there

on the internet now and every time I  make it no matter how thin or thick I 

slice it it gets chewy. If I cook it longer it just burns. Would anyone have an idea

what I might be doing wrong and a good recipe to start with? Thanks, Ken


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## SmokinAl (Jan 25, 2016)

First thought is are you slicing it across the grain?

How about a little more info. Belly or Butt bacon? Recipe? wet or dry cure? etc.

Al


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## worktogthr (Jan 25, 2016)

A lot of recipes on the internet for smoking bacon have you cook them until they are fully cooked maybe 145-160 internal temperature.  They also have you cook them at higher cooking temps (maybe 225).  Therefore when you recook them whether in a frying pan or the oven, there isn't all that much fat to render out which might explain the chewy or dry texture.  Think about grilling a chicken breast to 165 IT and then trying to reheat it in a frying pan or the oven.  You are almost always going to get a chewier or dryer piece of meat.  If you cold or warm smoke your bacon, you will basically be left with a "raw" product with most of the fat intact.  When you go to fry or bake it, it can then have the fat render and be the crispy goodness you are looking for.


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

It is pork belly. I have tried both wet and dry cures. I smoke it the at 180 degrees

till it hits 150 internally.


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2016)

Write a step by step of what you are doing including ingredients and quantities...   Then we can help you adjust your method....

Dave


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

As of now I have a Rec-Tec without the cold smoker attachment however

I do have 2 A-MAZE-N (sp) 12" cold smoking tubes. Can I cold smoke with

these, and would anyone recommend a good cure and cold smoking recipe?

Thank you so much for helping.

Ken


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

Dave

This last batch I made was wet cured using the following:

4 quarts of water

2 quarts apple cider

1 1/4 cups pickling salt

1 cup brown sugar

1/2 cup regular sugar

6 tsp. curing salt 6.25% sodium nitrite

I placed the skinned belly in the brine for 7 days, pulled it, patted it dry, set it

on a rack uncovered in fridge for a day.

Smoked it at a temp of 180 till internally reached 150. Pulled, let cool and

then placed in zip lock bag and put in fridge for a day. Sliced some off, had good

flavor but fat was chewy and meat stringy. 

I do not know if it was cut against or with the grain as someone else cut it for me and

I honestly would not know how to tell. I just know I wasted 25 dollars on a piece of meat.

Ken


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## worktogthr (Jan 25, 2016)

kendec65 said:


> It is pork belly. I have tried both wet and dry cures. I smoke it the at 180 degrees
> 
> till it hits 150 internally.


I am by no means a bacon expert but in my limited experience, I think that 180 is a little high of a cooking temp and taking it to 150 is basically making it a fully cooked product.  So you are cooking it again and possibly drying it out.


kendec65 said:


> As of now I have a Rec-Tec without the cold smoker attachment however
> 
> I do have 2 A-MAZE-N (sp) 12" cold smoking tubes. Can I cold smoke with
> 
> ...


You could definitely use the A-MAZE-N  tubes to cold smoke right in the coking chamber of your Rec Tec.  Just make sure the meat is properly cured because a complete cold smoke could last a very long time depending on how smokey you want your bacon. 

I recommend you check out these three posts:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124885/bacon-made-the-easy-way

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/96761/smoked-bacon-step-by-step-with-qview

Hope this helps!

-Chris


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## mowin (Jan 25, 2016)

Depending on outside temps you can definitely cold smoke with your amnts in your pellet grill. I do it all the time.  Outside temps can't be below freezing though.  Frozen meats won't take the smoke.

Edit: worktogthr types fast than me...


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

So as long as it is above freezing I should be good?


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## mowin (Jan 25, 2016)

Here's a link for the proper amounts of salt, sugar and cure you will need.  weight your  belly your going to cure, and convert that to grams with this calculator. . http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html.
This is for a dry cure. Its the method I use. Your going to need to get a gram scale.http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...-etc-be-safe-weigh-your-stuff-and-be-accurate. 

And, yes as long as its above freezing you will be good to go.


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

Chris

Using this recipe, http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124885/bacon-made-the-easy-way, what would

the suggestion be on how long to cold smoke using the tubes and how long will that bacon last?

Ken


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2016)

Ken, morning.....   Start out by trying a basic very good mix for bacon....

I gallon of water add:

1 cup sea salt or Kosher salt

1 cup granulated white sugar

1 Tbs.(heaping) cure no. 1 pink salt

Let it sit in the refer for 14 days....   

Remove and rinse and dry and sit on wire rack in refer for 1 week to "bloom and homogenize"....

Form a pellicle on the bacon slab in front of a fan on a wire rack for approx. 1-2 hours...   A pellicle is soluble proteins that "coagulate" to form a sticky "crust"...  that allows for great smoke penetration..

Smoke at 70 deg. F until a nice color has developed...   If you don't have the ability to cold smoke, smoke as cold as you can then up the heat to 150-160 until the bacon is 138 deg. F....

Place back in the refer for 7 more days on a wire rack for full flavor development...   

Slice across grain and cook or wrap and freeze for future eats...    we cook our bacon in the oven at 350 on a wire rack that's on a sheet pan until crisp...

This is the basic recipe I use and Bride says it's the best bacon she has ever eaten...   I've made bacon many, many ways and this is the best I've found..

The long soak time in the cure is necessary due to sugar penetrating up to 10 times slower than salt....   The rest times in the refer are for aging and flavor development...

Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)

130 (54.4) 112 min... 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min.... 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min.... 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min.... 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min.... 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min.... 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min.... 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min.... 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min.... 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min.... 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min.... 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min...... 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min...... 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min.......
144 (62.2) 5 min.......
145 (62.8) 4 min.......

Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).


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## dirtsailor2003 (Jan 25, 2016)

I can say that yes you can cold smoke with your AmazeN tubes. That's what I do. Heck you could use the tubes and a cardboard box if you wanted too. I prefer to cold smoke bacon as I do not like the texture of bacon that is hot smoked and then cooked again to reheat. If you have a good scale I would recommend using a dry rub cure. If not then going with Pop's brine works too.  My last batch was my best ever and I attribute it to the longer rest I gave the meat after smoking.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/236348/rubbed-the-belly-its-bacon-time


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## wade (Jan 25, 2016)

Hi Ken. You may find this helpful


kendec65 said:


> Using this recipe, http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124885/bacon-made-the-easy-way, what would
> 
> the suggestion be on how long to cold smoke using the tubes and how long will that bacon last?
> 
> Ken


Once cured the bacon will last for several weeks in the fridge, longer if frozen. The length of time to smoke is really down to personal taste. I usually smoke mine over hickory for 48 hours, which gives a nice smoke flavour without it being overpowering. I usually use the AMNPS (rather than the AMNTS) as they last longer between filling and I can give a full 48 hours smoke around my day job. Alternatively you can do shorter smoke times with the tubes to suit your schedule (building up to your total smoke time), placing it back in the fridge between smokes.


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

Thank you all for this great information!

I do not want to start an argument, but is there a benefit

between a wet or dry cure?

Ken


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## wade (Jan 25, 2016)

They are both different methods. Some prefer to immersion cure (wet) and others to dry cure. I have tried both and I prefer the dry cure however people like Dave and Pops seem to prefer to immersion cure. The end result is similar - you are trying to remove moisture from the pork and get the correct amount of salt and Nitrite inside. The reason I prefer the dry cure is that I find the end result is less salty - but it really is down to personal taste. I also like it because the bacon as it cures is in sealed plastic bags and can be stacked in the fridge. If you have plenty of space for the brine buckets then that is good too.

The only way to really check your preference is to try a batch of each and then taste them both.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Jan 25, 2016)

kendec65 said:


> Thank you all for this great information!
> 
> I do not want to start an argument, but is there a benefit
> 
> ...


The textures are different. I prefer the dry rub cure better than the wet brine. Once again this is a personal preference.

One benefit of dry curing is you don't have a large bucket taking up most of a fridge.


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

I have a fresh 12 pound belly in the fridge now. I will try both cures 

and cold smoking. I can't thank you all enough for helping!

Ken


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## wade (Jan 25, 2016)

Don't forget to let us know how you get on - We do like photos on here


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2016)

I prefer a dry rub cure also...    The brine method is easier for folks starting out to make a great bacon..   Until you can get a grams scale to accurately weigh small quantities...

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...-etc-be-safe-weigh-your-stuff-and-be-accurate

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/239348/brine-curing-and-adding-a-cola-to-the-brine

My bacon method...  That Bride says is the bestest ever...

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...t-dry-brined-bacon-aug-2015-8-23-money-update


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

Will do!

Ken


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

One quick question my wife would like me to ask. Is there anyway to do a maple bacon?


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## mfreel (Jan 25, 2016)

Lurking.

I prefer a dry cure.

You can purchase a maple flavored cure, which is what I like to do.  You can also slather maple syrup on it before you cold smoke it.  In fact, I'd add another mess about halfway through the process.


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2016)

kendec65 said:


> One quick question my wife would like me to ask. Is there anyway to do a maple bacon?


Yes....  Get the cure from a reputable supply house...   that's what I do....  makes great bacon...

https://www.waltonsinc.com/blue-ribbon-maple-bacon-cure

Use 2% on the meat...  9 grams per pound of meat...    the 5# bag for $15 will cure 250 #'s of bacon...   or other meats...

After you try it, you may have to add more salt...  That salt is about 1.8%....  some think that's a bit low...  but at least it's not too much....


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## wade (Jan 25, 2016)

kendec65 said:


> One quick question my wife would like me to ask. Is there anyway to do a maple bacon?


You can replace the sugar in the cure with maple sugar weight for weight.


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## wade (Jan 25, 2016)

DaveOmak said:


> Yes....  Get the cure from a reputable supply house...   that's what I do....  makes great bacon...


Dave is spot on - you must buy the cure from a reputable supplier. When I had the first batch of cure I bought off the Internet (e-bay) lab tested, its contents were not even close to what it claimed on the label. If they can provide you a lab test certificate then that is even better.


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## kendec65 (Jan 25, 2016)

Ok, so one more question. I've gotten a lot of help and information today a noticed using just about the same cure some people do the cure seven days and done fourteen. Why the difference for as said, basically the same recipe?


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## smokin phil (Jan 25, 2016)

.


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## murraysmokin (Jan 25, 2016)

http://ilovemeat.com/homemade-bacon-part-1-cure/

This is my favorite recipes comes out like candied bacon, the best BLT with my smoked cheddar


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## mowin (Jan 25, 2016)

kendec65 said:


> Ok, so one more question. I've gotten a lot of help and information today a noticed using just about the same cure some people do the cure seven days and done fourteen. Why the difference for as said, basically the same recipe?



You cant over cure, BUT you can under cure. A couple extra days definitely won't hurt.


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## wade (Jan 26, 2016)

Smokin Phil said:


> Within reason, you can't cure too long. I also go for a rest after smoking.


Within reason this is perfectly true. The cure will penetrate a certain depth each day until it reaches the centre (the exact rate that is quoted varies slightly by member) and so the thickness of the meat being cured dictates the minimum time required to cure. The meat will actually vary in thickness but to avoid unnecessary complexity in the method, as we know roughly the thickness of the meat we are going to cure we can plan for the thickest. I usually smoke back bacon (but also smoke belly too) and rather than have different cure times for each cut of pork I simply cure them both for 10 days.

You can tell when a piece of pork is under cured as you can see the lighter colour ring in the centre once it has been cut. Unfortunately when you have cut it to find out it is usually too late.

Dave has a couple of great photos that show what under cured pork looks like. Maybe he will post them again so you can tell what to look for.


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## smokin monkey (Jan 26, 2016)

Dry cure for me. Leave for longer rather than try to rush it, as Wade has pointed out, once you have realised its under cured it's too late.


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## kendec65 (Jan 26, 2016)

Again...Thank you for the education!

Ken


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## mfreel (Jan 26, 2016)

SO WHEN ARE WE CURING THIS HERE BACON?!?!?!?!


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## kendec65 (Jan 26, 2016)

Started last night.


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## mfreel (Jan 26, 2016)

Take some pics!!!!!


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## donr (Jan 26, 2016)

Keep good notes, it's like a science experiment.

I suggest smoking both cures at the same time.  I also suggest dividing the 2 cures into smaller pieces.  Smoke them all for 1 amount of time.  Label and put 1 piece of each in the fridge. Then smoke the remaining pieces again for the same amount of time.  Repeat until you run out of bacon.

This way you get to try bacons with different smoke times fairly close to each other.  This method also works if you are trying different recipies (seasonings and the like).  

I have never made belly bacon, but have done my fair share of Canadian bacon.  I normally smoke the bacon at night.  I put it in the smoker with a full AMNPS and in the morning I put the bacon back into the fridge.  I'll do this 3 or 4 nights in a row.  So the CB will have between 30 & 48 hours of thin smoke.  Everyone's tastes are different.  You need to decide what works best for your situation.

Don


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## steiny (Jan 27, 2016)

You're getting great advice on how to make good tasting bacon. I've also made some tough bacon.

I don't think your process is making it tough.

Belly, like butt, is not a tender cut. Look at the recipes to make braised pork belly. They use time and moisture to break down the collagen in the meat and slowly render some fat and develop browning.

Commercial bacon might also be mechanically tenderized in addition to small cure injection needles which have the same effect. Cutting against the grain is another form of mechanical tenderization mentioned by others. I find it difficult to find the direction of the grain sometimes after smoking. A trick I've seen brisket cooks use is to make a notch before rubbing and smoking to indicate the direction.

As meat ages it naturally tenderizes. That is one of the benefits of dry aged steak, but also hams and other cuts of pork.

What does all of this mean? You might have just gotten some tough pieces of belly, but there are a few additional things you can do to get a more tender result.

1. Age the belly. As others have said, take your time at every step.

2. Use a jaccard to get some mechanical tenderization. It might help the cure penetrate too.

3. Cold smoke the bacon to get the smoky flavor without losing moisture.

4. Sous vide the whole hunk of smoked bacon. This is used when cooking uncured belly to get a tender, yet moist result. Something like 36 hours at 145 should give nice results. Cool it in an ice bath when done. Then refrigerate and partially freeze before trying to slice. I've made seriouseats.com sous vide pork belly porchetta and it is life changing. Sliced thin and cooked like bacon, it makes an amazing sandwich. It shows how tender yet crispy belly and bacon can be. I've got an unsliced chunk of bacon I'm going to try this on today now that I think about it.

If you don't have sous vide, you can improvise and try cooking your bacon in a pan or sheet tray with just enough water to cover it. Once the liquid cooks off, the browning and crisping happens just like normal. I've found this helps when I've noticed a batch was tough. The more water and longer it takes the better.

Good luck!



Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## smokin monkey (Jan 27, 2016)

steiny said:


> 4. Sous vide the whole hunk of smoked bacon. This is used when cooking uncured belly to get a tender, yet moist result. Something like 36 hours at 145 should give nice results. Cool it in an ice bath when done. Then refrigerate and partially freeze before trying to slice. I've made seriouseats.com sous vide pork belly porchetta and it is life changing. Sliced thin and cooked like bacon, it makes an amazing sandwich. It shows how tender yet crispy belly and bacon can be



Copied this recepie will be trying that one[emoji]128077[/emoji]


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## darwin101 (Jan 31, 2016)

I would suggest a few things.  

1.  Make sure you slice across the grain.  Looking at the slab you should be see the direction of the muscle fibers.  

2.  While learning something new, use no more than you are comfortable with ruining.  

3.  Keep it simple until you are good with the basics. 

(Yea, I learned the hard way a few times...  Once I grabbed the largest pork loin I could find to make back bacon.  It was very tough even when sliced very thinly across the grain. Then there was the melted smoked cheese incident of 2014...  and a few others bone headed adventures.)   
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  

Good luck!


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## westby (Feb 1, 2016)

I'm fairly confident that the texture difference you are experiencing is due to the hot smoking.  I personally hot smoke following the amazingribs recipe with a few tweaks and I really like the texture.  It sounds to me like you prefer the texture of cold smoked bacon.  Cold smoke with your tube in the bottom of the Rec Tec with the unit off (or if you are good with electronics and can figure out how to turn off the heat and auger and just run the fan, that would be better).  I think you will have enough air to cold smoke using the Rec Tec as your smoking chamber, but I'm not 100% positive.  As someone else said, you can make a cardboard box work just as well.  Read through the cold smoking bacon posts here.  I think most guys have the best luck with 6-8 hour smokes over 2 to 3 days (with the belly going back in the fridge between smokes).


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## kendec65 (Feb 2, 2016)

Going to try the cold smoking route on my rec tec like you stated. The fan is no problem, I'll just pull the fan wires and plus them into the light socket and presto s fan with no pellets or heat.


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## mowin (Feb 3, 2016)

kendec65 said:


> Going to try the cold smoking route on my rec tec like you stated. The fan is no problem, I'll just pull the fan wires and plus them into the light socket and presto s fan with no pellets or heat.



I'd be wary of doing that unless you are sure the fan is 110v and the computer doesn't reduce the the voltage.  

I've cold smoked in my GMG with the amnts with no issues.


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## kendec65 (Feb 3, 2016)

Thanks for the concern. I wasn't even gonna try it but talked to the guys at Rec-Tec and that was their directions.


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## kendec65 (Feb 9, 2016)

Just wanted to update as I have not forgot the help.

Just pulled from the 14 day brine and letting it dry in fridge

for a few days. Next, getting ready to try a dry rub for comparison.

Ken


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## redheelerdog (Feb 9, 2016)

Show us some pics of the belly Ken


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## kendec65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Well after a 14 day brine, letting it set for a few days I used my A Maze N tube tonight in my Rec Tec and proceeded to ruin all the meat. After pulling the meat after four hours the inside of my Rec Tec looked like someone sprayed water inside it and this creosote smelling drops of condensation dripping on it. I used no heat, it's 15 degrees out and not sure if it can be saved some how. I did fry up some and it has a bad taste but at least the texture was spot on for what I was looking for. Thanks for the help. Not sure if I'm gonna try bacon again. Ken


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## maplenut (Feb 11, 2016)

Sorry to hear to it did not turn out good.
I too have a want to eventually try my hand at making bacon.


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## daveomak (Feb 11, 2016)

Wash the surface of the meat with hot water and scrub with paper towels....    Cold smoking must be done at around 60-70 deg. F inside the smoker....  the meat must be that temp or a bit higher to stop condensate from forming.... The smoke must be warmed to 60-70 degrees...

The condensate probably came from the pellets burning....   Water is a product of combustion...

You can save the meat with a thorough scrubbing...

Smoke the meat in a large cardboard box so you don't have all that crud from inside your smoker....  use a light bulb for heat...


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## wade (Feb 12, 2016)

You have a couple of problems I think. The first is that the tube smoker creates way too much smoke to cold smoke in such a small chamber. Even in my 650 Litre cold smoker the tube produces smoke that is too intense. Something like an AMNPS will produce smoke that is less dense over a longer period of time. The second issue is that you almost certainly do not have sufficient air flow through the smoker. I am not sure which of the Rec Tecs models that you have but being a pellet grill they are will not have a lot of natural air draw - relying on the integral fan to manage the air flow. The combination of both of these will result in very high moisture within the chamber and the risk of a creosote-like condensate forming on the meat.

What Dave suggests is certainly worth a try too. By cooling the smoke before it enters the chamber much of the tarry condensate will have condensed out before it comes in contact with the food.The temperatures can be quite difficult to control practically though over long smokes (24 hours +) as the outside air temperature will vary greatly over a 24 hour period - especially at this time of year.

You could try emptying out the pellet hopper(s) and place the smoke generator in there (rather than directly in the chamber), but without an extractor fan on the flue to pull the smoke through you may not get the smoke to flow through the unit. You may also gum up the pellet feed auger. 

I would second Dave's suggestion regarding using a cardboard box. Holes in the bottom and holes in the top to let the heat of the burning pellets natural create a natural air flow through the unit.


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## wade (Feb 12, 2016)

kendec65 said:


> it's 15 degrees out


I just realised that you meant Fahrenheit and not Centigrade. There is little point in trying to smoke anything outside with the temperatures this low and no heat as very little smoke will penetrate - and I am not surprised that you got a heavy condensate. I am surprised that it didn't come our ready-frozen.

Thanks Dave for reminding me about the US/UK differences


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## kendec65 (Feb 14, 2016)

Well I was able to save the bacon, but any thoughts on how to clean the creosote from the smoker?


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## daveomak (Feb 14, 2016)

I have a MES 30....  I crank up the temp to max. after every smoke..  (275º F)...  let it run for several hours...  at first I see a bluish plume leaving the smoker... I figure it's creosote...  finally the exhaust clears and what was once a sort of sticky film is now hard and brittle...   Might take more than a few hours to bake that stuff out of yours...  When it gets hard and brittle, it should come out fairly easily with a wire brush or a weed burner...


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## wade (Feb 15, 2016)

I don't clean my cold smokers after every smoke but when I do I find that the best way is with hot soapy water in a hand sprayer and spray the inside surfaces. Then wipe it off with a cloth and a bucket of plenty of warm soapy water. Don't use anything stronger than normal washing up liquid as the stronger chemicals can leave a residue and an unpleasant smell.

It is easier to take out any wire shelves and to clean them separately.


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