# Cold vs. Hot Smoked bacon?



## aaron10 (Apr 28, 2021)

Ok I have not made bacon before ever. I see you can hot smoke or cold smoke it. As far as I can tell, people hot smoke because it is safer and because it is easier to do (bbq pit).

My question is it really safer? I mean you cook the bacon anyway, wouldn't that take care of any botulism concerns (or other) with cold smoking?

Thanks in advance!


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## JC in GB (Apr 28, 2021)

*I only hot smoke my bacon as I like the way it cuts better and also knowing that I have brought the pork up to safe temps makes storage a bit easier.*

*Botulism is controller by the nitrate in the curing salt but the protection goes away as the nitrate gets converted to **nitrous** oxides.*
*
If I were to cold smoke my bacon, it would only be to do a double smoke on it.

I find that my bacon gets plenty of smoke flavor using a single smoke.

*
*JC   *


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## smokerjim (Apr 28, 2021)

It's a matter of preference , but if your cold smoking do make sure its cured properly


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## SmokinEdge (Apr 28, 2021)

aaron10 said:


> Ok I have not made bacon before ever. I see you can hot smoke or cold smoke it. As far as I can tell, people hot smoke because it is safer and because it is easier to do (bbq pit).
> 
> My question is it really safer? I mean you cook the bacon anyway, wouldn't that take care of any botulism concerns (or other) with cold smoking?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


It is safer to hot smoke. If bacteria exist in/on the belly, hot smoking to IT of 145* kills the bacteria, cold smoking does not and would allow said bacteria to multiply until the belly is cooked. If for some reason that belly wasn’t cooked to high enough temp, you could get sick.

Nitrite is converted to Nitric Oxide which in turn kills or neutralize botulism. We can control botulism with Nitric Oxide (NO) where cooking alone we need to achieve temps around 240-250* to kill it. That would not be good for bacon. All other pathogens can be controlled with temp at or above 140*.
Also hot smoking helps later when bacon is fried, to not burn the sugars in the pan. This is helpful if you like sweet bacon. Personally, I like the flavor and texture of cold smoked bacon better, but I would not share bacon with friends unless I hot smoke it, just for safety sake.


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## 617Smoker (Apr 28, 2021)

FWIW: https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/safety-and-health/cold-smoking-meats-dont-do-it/


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## GaryHibbert (Apr 28, 2021)

I only cold smoke my bacon.  Before I smoke it, it sits in the fridge with the correct amount of spices and TQ for the correct amount of time, plus a couple of extra days.  I then cold smoke it for 2 goes of 10 to 12 hours each.  When sliced and vac sealed it goes immediately into the freezer, and sits there until it is fried up.
I have no qualms whatsoever about sharing my bacon.
Gary


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## hondabbq (Apr 28, 2021)

I cold smoke. 
Reason i cold smoke: I dont cook my steaks twice either.


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## The Smoke Show (Apr 28, 2021)

Probably just a preference to what you want
 I just did 3 loins of backbacon for the first time  and I did  hot smoked with a 36 hour cure after injection and a 40 min in the vack tumbler and it turned out killer


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## SmokinEdge (Apr 28, 2021)

The Smoke Show said:


> and a 40 min in the vack tumbler


What sort of vac tumbler do you have?


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## The Smoke Show (Apr 28, 2021)

I have the Marinade Express 25 pound


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## Bearcarver (Apr 28, 2021)

aaron10 said:


> Ok I have not made bacon before ever. I see you can hot smoke or cold smoke it. As far as I can tell, people hot smoke because it is safer and because it is easier to do (bbq pit).
> 
> My question is it really safer? I mean you cook the bacon anyway, wouldn't that take care of any botulism concerns (or other) with cold smoking?
> 
> Thanks in advance!




You already got some Great Answers above, so I'll just put my 2 cents in:
I don't do either Cold or Hot.  I "Warm Smoke" my Bacon, using A Smoker Temp at between 100° and 130°. With Warm Smoke, I can get the same Color & Flavor as I can get by Cold Smoking, only in less than Half the time. As long as I keep the Smoker temp below 140° none of the Fat ever renders.
I never completely cook my Bacon this way, so it still needs to be cooked to 145° before eating, to be safe to Eat.

Here's How I do it, Step by Step:
Bacon (Extra Smoky)

Bear


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## olaf (Apr 28, 2021)

I also smoke at a warm temp around 120 degrees. Did a hot smoke once and it was good but much prefer keeping it uncooked. Recently I found a package on the bottom of the freezer at least a year old and it was good.


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## SmokinEdge (Apr 28, 2021)

Nothing wrong with cold smoked meats, if you know what you are doing. That said,
In the temp range of 40-140* F. Is always known as the danger zone for bacteria growth. If the piece of meat has, say 10 staphylococcus aureus, or and, salmonella, or E. Coli, the growth rate of these bacteria in say a 5 hour smoke session would go from 10 to 327,680. In 6 hours those original 10 bacteria would become 2,621,440 million bacteria. This is no game!

The saving grace is that the smoking process dries the meat, lowering the Aw (available water) this is another hurdle in food safety, but if not done properly, could become a food hazard. In a warm smoke ( 40-140* F) The only protection is the nitrite, then the drying (Aw drop). Salt would come to play too but needs to be in the 3% range to be effective (this level of salt is not popular in bacon, too salty). Meat selection is absolutely key. Fresh killed and processed meat, by yourself or a very reputable processor, is best. Buying meat at the grocery as mass produced is anybody’s guess. Usually this meat is fine, but they do have recalls from time to to for bacteria infection. Roll those dice, use intelligence guided by experience. Let’s be safe out there.


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## pineywoods (Apr 28, 2021)

I cold smoke bacon except Canadian bacon which I cold smoke for several hours then smoke it at hotter temps so it can be eaten cold in a sandwich.
Curing bacon is not hard just takes some time. I don't want to render the fat before I fry it to eat it and at temps over about 100 degrees it will start to render fat.


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## GaryHibbert (Apr 28, 2021)

The Smoke Show said:


> Probably just a preference to what you want
> I just did 3 loins of backbacon for the first time  and I did  hot smoked with a 36 hour cure after injection and a 40 min in the vack tumbler and it turned out killer


Yeah, when it comes to back bacon, I always hot smoke that.
Gary


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## GaryHibbert (Apr 28, 2021)

Bearcarver said:


> I don't do either Cold or Hot. I "Warm Smoke" my Bacon, using A Smoker Temp at between 100° and 130°. With Warm Smoke, I can get the same Color & Flavor as I can get by Cold Smoking, only in less than Half the time. As long as I keep the Smoker temp below 140° none of the Fat ever renders.


I do the same thing, John, except I heat the smoker up to just above outside ambient temp.  That way I get good convection and keep the smoke moving through, rather than just sitting in the MES.
Gary


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## GaryHibbert (Apr 28, 2021)

SmokinEdge said:


> If the piece of meat has, say 10 staphylococcus aureus, or and, salmonella, or E. Coli, the growth rate of these bacteria in say a 5 hour smoke session would go from 10 to 327,680. In 6 hours those original 10 bacteria would become 2,621,440 million bacteria.


So when I do a "warm" cold smoke for two sessions of 10-12 hours each, separated by a night in the fridge, I would have  (never was any good at extrapolating) at least a couple of billion bacteria on each of the 3 slabs of belly in the MES??  Something has to be affecting the bacteria--nobody I share with has had any problems after eating the bacon.
Gary


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## WaterRat (Apr 28, 2021)

aaron10 said:


> I mean you cook the bacon anyway, wouldn't that take care of any botulism concerns (or other) with cold smoking?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



This was sorta answered but sorta not. If botulinum toxin has been allowed to form by improper curing and/or smoking it will not be destroyed in the final cooking process. Just like poorly canned peas can still be deadly even if you cook them. The issue with cold smoking is it does not kill the bacteria so you give the bacteria more time to replicate (and then produce toxin) and if you messed up the curing you could be in trouble. Yes, people do it safely. Yes there is risk, a very serious one.


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## daspyknows (Apr 28, 2021)

I smoke at 175 to 200 to an IT of 145 degrees.


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## SmokinEdge (Apr 28, 2021)

GaryHibbert said:


> So when I do a "warm" cold smoke for two sessions of 10-12 hours each, separated by a night in the fridge, I would have  (never was any good at extrapolating) at least a couple of billion bacteria on each of the 3 slabs of belly in the MES??  Something has to be affecting the bacteria--nobody I share with has had any problems after eating the bacon.
> Gary


Maybe you haven’t had any bacteria to deal with yet. Get a copy of Marianski’s book “Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages “ Well worth the time.


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2021)

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*Cold Smoking*
Cold smoking at 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1-14 days, applying thin smoke with occasional breaks in between, is one of the oldest preservation methods. We cannot produce cold smoke if the outside temperature is 90° F (32° C), unless we can cool it down, which is what some industrial smokers do. Cold smoking is a drying process whose purpose is to remove moisture thus preserving a product.
You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C). Cold smoking assures us of total smoke penetration inside of the meat. The loss of moisture also is uniform in all areas and the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Cold smoking is not a continuous process, it is stopped (no smoke) a few times to allow fresh air into the smoker.
In XVIII century brick built smokehouses a fire was started every morning. It smoldered as long as it could and if it stopped, it would be restarted again the following morning.






Cold smoked meats prevent or slow down the spoilage of fats, which increases their shelf life. The product is drier and saltier with a more pronounced smoky flavor and very long shelf life. The color varies from yellow to dark brown on the surface and dark red inside. Cold smoked products are not submitted to the cooking process. If you want to cold smoke your meats, bear in mind that with the exception of people living in areas with a cold climate like Alaska, it will have to be done in the winter months just as it was done 500 years ago.















Cold smoking at its best. Smoking continues through the night. _Photos courtesy Waldemar Kozik._
Using dry wood is of utmost importance when cold smoking. It is recommended to keep wood chips in a well defined single pile as they will have less contact with air, thus will smoke better without creating unnecessary flames and heat. By following these rules we achieve 75-85% humidity, creating the best conditions for moisture removal. Once the moisture content drops low enough, the salt present in the meat will further inhibit the development of bacteria and the products can hang in the air for months losing more moisture as time goes by.
Lox (smoked salmon) is smoked with cold smoke for an extended period of time. Applying hotter smoke (over 84° F, 28° C) will just cook the fish, the flavor will change and we will not be able to slice it so thin anymore. Cold smoking is a slow process and the hams, which lend themselves perfectly to this type of smoking, can be smoked from 2 to even 6 weeks. During smoking they will slowly be acquiring a golden color along with a smoky flavor.





Cold smoking allows us total smoke penetration inside of the meat. Very little hardening of the outside surface of the meat or casing occurs and smoke penetrates the meat easily.





Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2021)

When planning on cold smoking, do NOT use a wet brine/cure..  It will impart too much water, into the meat,that will allow for bacterial growth...
Dry "rub" cure using salt, sugar and cure#1... 
Place on wire racks in the fridge for 14 days to start the dehydrating process...






  Cold smoke for several days 55-70F... 













then I put the meat back in the refer for ~5 days for the flavors to bloom... 


The meat MUST be at outdoor ambient temperature, or above, to eliminate the possibility of forming condensate on the meat when in the smoker.. I do not fridge the meat between smokes... I only cold smoke bacon in the fall thru spring...

I smoke with pellet dust in a maze using the Mail Box mod...


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## SmokinAl (Apr 29, 2021)

Cold smoke guy here too!
Why cook it twice?
Besides dry cured, cold smoked bacon has the best texture & flavor IMHO!
Al


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## BB-que (Sep 27, 2021)

daveomak said:


> When planning on cold smoking, do NOT use a wet brine/cure..  It will impart too much water, into the meat,that will allow for bacterial growth...
> Dry "rub" cure using salt, sugar and cure#1...
> Place on wire racks in the fridge for 14 days to start the dehydrating process...
> 
> ...


Could you give me the measurements of the dry rub for bacon?  Looked around and couldn’t find.  Thanks in advance!


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## daveomak (Sep 28, 2021)

What I dry rub with...
Weigh everything in grams....
1.75% kosher salt... (.0175 x belly weight)
1% white sugar...
0.25% cure#1...


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## ahakohda (Oct 13, 2021)

As an eastern european, I am sticking to our centuries old traditions of smoking, and smoking bacon in particular.
I actually was surprised by american bacon upon my arrival here. It looked nice but wasn't cooked the way I use to eat it.

Well long story short, I wet cure my bacon and hot smoke it at 180F until internal 150F. 












I am smoking that way ribs and chickens as well.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 13, 2021)

ahakohda said:


> As an eastern european, I am sticking to our centuries old traditions of smoking, and smoking bacon in particular.
> I actually was surprised by american bacon upon my arrival here. It looked nice but wasn't cooked the way I use to eat it.
> 
> Well long story short, I wet cure my bacon and hot smoke it at 180F until internal 150F.
> ...




All Looks Great !!!
I love making Spare Ribs Like that (Cured & Smoked).
We call it "Bacon-on-A-Stick".  Yum!

Bear


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## Cody_Mack (Oct 19, 2021)

Bearcarver said:


> We call it "Bacon-on-A-Stick". Yum!



Throw one over here, please...  (that was my first Post, y'all)


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## Bearcarver (Oct 20, 2021)

rtrigler said:


> Throw one over here, please...  (that was my first Post, y'all)




Congrats & Welcome to SMF!!
Now Buzz over to "Roll Call" and introduce yourself, so everybody has a chance to welcome you!!

Bear


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