# Curing Ham first time without injecting



## cid79

I'm going to butcher shop tonight and picking up a 15lbs ham (hind quarter of pig) I've done a lot of reading to figure out the curing salt amount needed and kosher salt, my question is I don't want to inject I want it to cure just in the solution, how long do I leave it in the cure before it's done? I read somewhere that wet cure you leave in 1 day for every 2 pounds of meat, now I am sure there is some variables in there, so I was thinking about leaving it in for 12-14 days, any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance, as far as the cure I figured using 2 gallons of water, and a 15 lbs ham I would need 7.5 tsp of curing salt, I'm using Hoosier Hill Farm curing salt, from Fort Wayne IN.


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## daveomak

cid, morning....   What is wrong with injecting the ham ???

I have made hams in 6 days injecting only.....

http://smokingmeatforums.com/index.php?threads/ham-from-fresh-picnics-update-10-21-money.236375/


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## cid79

Good Morning Daveomak, was hoping you would chime in, there's nothing wrong with injecting it, I thought I would for first time do the long process to get a better feel for it, before learning to take shortcuts.  Do you think my timing for doing a 15lbs ham is correct?


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## daveomak

I think your idea of not injecting will cause the ham to "bone sour" and you will end up throwing it away...

Take a look at my method...  You can call it a "short cut" but... that method insures all the cure, salt and sugar are delivered inside the ham... no guessing, no waiting, reduction of salt, sugar and cure because you only inject the proper quantities the ham needs, to be a quality ham...
It's basically the "same" as commercial establishments...
The FDA recommends injecting meats over 2" thick... 

Maintain the ham at ~36-38 F for 2 days before injecting..  Cool the injection liquid to ~36 before injecting.. 
++++++++++++++++
Pump the ham or shoulder along the bones. Fill the pump fully to prevent air pockets. It is strongly recommended to pack some of the dry cure around the shank and hock bones. If curing is performed at higher than refrigerator temperatures, remove sugar from brine that will be injected into the bone areas. It may start fermentation and ruin the product. There is a variety of meat pumps for general cooking which are available in major department stores. Distributors of sausage making equipment and supplies carry stainless steel pumps, usually 4 oz capacity with a selection of different needles.












Mr. T's country ham..

http://smokingmeatforums.com/index.php?threads/country-cured-ham-from-go-to-show-q-view.134415/


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## cid79

From reading further it seems like I am going to have to inject to have this ham done in time for thanksgiving, I also read that if you just do a immersion cure, with out injecting, you run the risk of bone sour, what is that?


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## cid79

Daveomak,

Ok I will inject it, so let me get this straight, I will still need to wet cure it for a couple of days even if I inject, but it will cut my time down a lot, so if I need 7.5tsp of cure for just doing the wet cure, will that be cut down if I inject? so here's a question for you how much injection with cure salt would I need for a 15lbs ham, then how much cure salt would I need when I submerge into 2 gallons of water.

Injection Cure salt about ?tsp + ?water

Submerged Wet Cure, ?tsp + 2 gallons of water

Not sure if I explained that right.


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## cid79

Daveomak, Thanks for all the help, I'm just trying to learn more and more.


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## daveomak

Where the bone, being in the center of the leg, does not get salt and cure "in time" to  prevent bacterial growth...

The ham must be cooled within 24 hours of slaughter to ~38 and that cooling process should last for 48 hours, and the ham must remain "cold" throughout the process...






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## daveomak

cid79 said:


> Daveomak,
> 
> Ok I will inject it, so let me get this straight, I will still need to wet cure it for a couple of days even if I inject, but it will cut my time down a lot, so if I need 7.5tsp of cure for just doing the wet cure, will that be cut down if I inject? so here's a question for you how much injection with cure salt would I need for a 15lbs ham, then how much cure salt would I need when I submerge into 2 gallons of water.
> 
> Injection Cure salt about ?tsp + ?water
> 
> Submerged Wet Cure, ?tsp + 2 gallons of water
> 
> Not sure if I explained that right.



If you use "my method"....

For a 15# ham....
Weigh out 1.5#'s injection liquid..
Weigh out  17 grams cure #1..
Weigh out 136 grams Kosher salt....
Weigh out 68 grams white sugar....
Dissolve all the above in the injection liquid... DO NOT HEAT....
Cool to 38 deg. F...
Inject *all of the liquid* into the ham...
Start at the bones and joints then finish in the meat at ~1.5" intervals to insure the meat is covered with the solution..

Refer in a zip bag for 5-6 days...   Turn daily...  Done... enjoy...


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## cid79

Dave,

I will use your method above, just a few questions about it, 1.5#'s on injection liquid, is lets say water correct?
17 grams of cure #1 is just that, I think it equals close to 3.5 tsp.
Now after I inject the ham with all the liquid mentioned above, do I put it in another cure solution after that or do I just let it cure itself with what I injected into it?

And Thanks for all the help, can't wait to try it.


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## daveomak

You can use Pork stock for the liquid...  I prefer Vegetable Stock, NO SALT..  adds a depth of flavor....     The 1.5#'s is a 10% injection...  industry normal.....   You don't put the ham in a brine....  put it in a zip bag...   The ham has everything already inside and much deeper that brining will do... and it's calculated to be what the ham needs...   I recommend injecting around the bones and joints first..  really thorough...   then finish up injecting into the meat about every 1 1/2 inches..  checkerboard pattern..   should take about 150 injections of 10cc's each or 10 mls each...    W-M had syringes like these....  they work good....  It's what I have been using...  Around the leg bone, you may have to get all the way around it from the side that the meat is not too thick..  just inject each side of the bone...   same on the joints... once you have really injected well around the bone and joints....  do the meat...   I prefer a skinless ham leg...  smoke doesn't penetrate the hide too well...  not as well as meat....  There will be some leakage of the brine...  don't worry...  not enough to hurt the quality of the curing process...  besides, it's in the bag and will continue curing from the outside, like an EQ cure would do..


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## cid79

Dave,

I understand completely now what your saying for the ham, it also raises more questions for me, 1.5# is a 10% injection ( industry normal) < where does that come from our how did you come up with it? Again Dave thanks I am just wanting to learn for future cures. Is there a formula for this?


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## daveomak

I read a lot......


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## cid79

Ok so since I have a 15 pound pork hind quarter I want to turn into ham, and to use a 10% pump, I would take the 15 lbs * .1 that gives me 1.5# of liquid, now how did you figure up the curing salt, and other items, also lets say I wanted to do a 20% pump how would you figure up the amount curing salt for that along with kosher salt, and sugar?


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## cid79

Yeah that's all I've been doing to, but it seems like one site says one thing and another site says another.


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## daveomak

Let's look at this....  I gave you specific instructions and a step by step...  I'm aware of "others" ideas on this..  
About the 1.5#'s of liquid....   That's 10%....   That's about all you can pump into a ham leg... 
2% kosher salt, 1% white sugar, 0.25% cure #1...
The liquid injected does not figure in to the overall weight of the meat for calculations....  All calculations are based on the weight of the ham...


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## cid79

Yes Dave and I printed those instructions out, word for word, but if I don't learn the math, or science behind it, then what's the point of doing it, beside it will drive me crazy if I don't learn it, because I want the knowledge. Again thank you, and I'm going to do your method, I just want to learn the math behind also for whenever I do it again.


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## daveomak

Sorry about my crass attitude....


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## cid79

Dave no problem, I'm just wanting to learn, and I read soooooo much on this stuff in the last few days, that it's making my head hurt, and there is so much different variations from site to site, that when I think I have it figured out, I read something new that puts what I just read before that into what not to do, and so on and so forth, I'm just trying to figure out the correct way and formula to do it, so I don't screw it up or get anyone sick.


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## pc farmer

daveomak said:


> Let's look at this....  I gave you specific instructions and a step by step...  I'm aware of "others" ideas on this..
> About the 1.5#'s of liquid....   That's 10%....   That's about all you can pump into a ham leg...
> 2% kosher salt, 1% white sugar, 0.25% cure #1...
> The liquid injected does not figure in to the overall weight of the meat for calculations....  All calculations are based on the weight of the ham...




I am doing this now.   10% injection, the liquid was squirting out everywhere before I had all the liquid gone.


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## cid79

Yeah I called the meat market tonight, and my ham was in, so I'm going to go pick that up tomorrow, is this your first time doing it?


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## daveomak

_Dave no problem, I'm just wanting to learn, and I read soooooo much on this stuff in the last few days, that it's making my head hurt, and there is so much different variations from site to site, that when I think I have it figured out, I read something new that puts what I just read before that into what not to do, and so on and so forth, I'm just trying to figure out the correct way and formula to do it, so I don't screw it up or get anyone sick._

cid, looking at other sites, this site is the only one, I know of, that is dedicated to following FDA/USDA guidelines for curing meat...  That is why you find differences in methods...   Even the BIG NAME folks that have TV shows and TOP SELLING BOOKS don't follow Federal Guidelines for curing meat...  "Some" of them say they have scientists working for them and they violate Fed. regs....   Soooo, have fun...


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## pc farmer

cid79 said:


> Yeah I called the meat market tonight, and my ham was in, so I'm going to go pick that up tomorrow, is this your first time doing it?




Yup.  I am practicing for when I butcher Miss Pink.


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## cid79

Dave,

Yeah I love this site for the help, I've listen to a lot of comments on here, yours as well from different threads, is there a pdf or link that shows this information for the FDA Standards for curing meat, Like how did you get your numbers 2% salt, 1% sugar, and .25% cure#1 or is it tucked away somewhere on this website, I know you said you read a lot, LOL.


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## daveomak

cid79 said:


> Dave,
> 
> Yeah I love this site for the help, I've listen to a lot of comments on here, yours as well from different threads, is there a pdf or link that shows this information for the FDA Standards for curing meat, Like how did you get your numbers 2% salt, 1% sugar, and .25% cure#1 or is it tucked away somewhere on this website, I know you said you read a lot, LOL.



The salt and sugar are personal taste...   0.25% cure # is 156 Ppm nitrite... 1 tsp. per 5#'s and 1.13 grams per pound are 156 Ppm..  Over 3 1/2% salt, some consider the meat inedible..  I find 1% sugar is enough to negate any salt flavor and not add any sweetness..   Soooo, for my personal taste, 2% salt and 1% sugar provides a balance that does not effect the flavor of the meat...


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## daveomak

This is the commercial version of handling meats.....

https://fyi.uwex.edu/meats/files/2011/12/ProcessingInspectorsHandbook.pdf


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## cid79

Thanks for all your help I am finally understanding it, Last night I even did the math at home to see how you got your numbers, much appreciated for all the info you have given me.


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## daveomak

Cool.....  Some folks wouldn't do the calcs...   Glad you did....   Now when you go to other sites, you will see they don't follow FDA guidelines....


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## cid79

Dave,
If I may pick your brain again, In the future I am going to want to do the pump (Inject) method and brine (immerse) to experiment with other flavors, now here's my question, when calculating how much brine I want to use, say 1 gallon, do I need to add additional cure #1 for that also? or NO just inject with your method and brine without adding extra cure to the liquid?


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## daveomak

Do the calculations for cure, salt, sugar based on the weight of the meat ONLY...  Pick a volume/weight of the liquid you will used, based on injecting ALL OF IT....   I like 10% because I have found most all meats will accept a 10% injection..  If you want to do a submersion brine,  do not use my method..  It is specifically designed to inject only...  There is no reason to submerge when using my method..  You can add ANY herbs, spices you like to the injection liquid..  I would suggest you heat the spices/herbs in the liquid to extract the flavors...  cool the liquid and add the salt, sugar and cure #1...   DO NOT heat the liquid when the cure has been added...  Temps of 130 and higher will degrade and break down the cure...
If you want an equilibrium brine/cure, weigh the meat and water...  add the ingredients required for the total weight...   submerge and refer for at least 7 days per inch of thickness... it is recommended to use white sugar..


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## cid79

Dave,

That is what I wondering exactly, now I am going to use your method to a T, with the added spices though, down the road when it's not for a important holiday, I may try the other method unless I really like yours, I may never try the other way, Thank You DaveOmak for everything, I learned a tons talking to you. Your a Great man (BBQ On)


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## daveomak

Any time....   I'm here to help...  
You can adjust the salt and sugar to personal taste..   I find those values pretty much makes everyone happy....
I you have others over to eat that pig, you'll be making other folks hams.... 

Dave


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## cid79

Yeah this ham is going for this years Thanksgiving dinner, along with a spatchcock turkey, and either a Prime Rib, or Beef Tenderloin, If I can nail the Ham, which with your help, I am feeling very confident in doing, the turkey and beef, I've done plenty of those, going to be cooking all this food on my Shirley Fabrication Smoker, again Thank You for your help, I will post results of everything just after Thanksgiving.


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## cid79

Sorry for the late entry, but here is everything that I cooked on Thanksgiving this year including the ham. Yes this was all cooked for Thanksgiving day, there was so much food.





	

		
			
		

		
	
 Here is how my ham turned, I am very happy with thanks Dave Omak














	

		
			
		

		
	
 Put the ham, some beef ribs and a chicken in the main chamber.






	

		
			
		

		
	
 Brisket and a pork butt on the pitt boss pellet smoker.






	

		
			
		

		
	
 Two turkeys went on the back end of my smoker to cook at a higher temp.


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## bobjr21w

Goodness that looks awesome.  I'm planning on doing my first ham smoke for Xmas.  How did it taste?  Would you adjust anything? What cut did you get for the ham?


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## daveomak

Cid, afternoon.... Looks good...  Now I'm adding another wrench to your tool box.... 
STPP....  Sodium Tripolyphosphate...  It's an additive that binds moisture to the meat...  Keep stuff moist from beef sticks, sausage, hams and turkeys...  I haven't found it to add any flavor, just moisture...  It's used at 0.3-0.5%, so it's cheap ...  click on the labels in the link below to read about it...
Here's how to add it...

Phosphate additions..
I use this STPP from Amazon... It is Kosher and a high quality food grade.. Use at a rate of 0.3-0.5% by weight of the final product... 
The proper procedure for mixing phosphates is....  I skip steps 5 and 6..  don't use them...

Mix into the liquid...
1. phosphates and dissolve...
2. sugars, proteins and dissolve
3. salt and dissolve
4. cure and dissolve
5. accelerators (sodium erythorbate) and dissolve
6. starches and carrageenan and mix thoroughly...

Chlorinated water impedes the action of nitrite... ascorbic acid should not be added to brines containing nitrite, the 2 will react producing fumes..


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## cid79

Bobjr21w
The ham tasted awesome, my youngest sister said it was best ham she ever had, she took home half of the leftovers off of it, I used a little to much pickling spice in it, I really didn't care much for that, that was the only thing that I deviated from Daveomak instructions from the previous post if you go back and read them. The ham cut was just that the ham from the pig (hind quarter) I just asked my local butcher shop for it, so if there are different cuts off of the ham on the hind quarter I don't know, it was 15lbs


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## cid79

Daveomak,
Thanks for the additional information, I will start reading on that very soon, I will probably be hitting you up with more questions on that here in the coming weeks/months.


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## Bearcarver

That's a lot of Tasty looking Vittles you got there, Cid!!:)

Nice Job!!

Bear


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## bobjr21w

Thanks cid.  I'm excited about my first ham. Did you do any specific with temps?  I'm no used to large chunks of meat.


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## browneyesvictim

Nice job CID!


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## daveomak

I'm very glad it turned out good for you and the family...  I have used this method for many picnics and turkeys...  they turn out realllllly good..


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## cid79

Bobjr21w, I smoked right around 125° to 135° I believe for about 9 hours it took for the 15 pound ham.


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## cid79

Thanks everyone, it was a good Thanksgiving
Daveomak, does your recipe equation work for curing bacon to, or is that something entirely different, my brother in law just asked me if I would want to smoke a pork belly, I told him I'm pretty sure it needs to be cured first to make bacon.


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## daveomak

Yes it works for bacon... I use the ratio of ingredients for everything I cure / brine smoke...
For bacon, I dry cure...  1.75% salt, 1% sugar and 1 gram cure#1 ... per pound of meat...   I like a bit less cure in the bacon..  the salt in the cure brings the salt level in the bacon up to 2% salt..  I don't like any more salt than that in the bacon...   coat the belly and zip bag for 10-14 days.. turning daily...  rinse..  add extra stuff to the surface if you like...  black pepper, garlic, onion...  then refer for a day or 3 on a wire rack in the fridge...  I cold smoke for about 4 hours..   then partially freeze and slice..


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## cid79

Dave,

Your awesome man, Thanks a bunch.


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