# Reverse Flow Smokers and frabrication questions



## thomasyoung

Hello Unclebeef,
I'm just starting out with having a smoker built for me, and when I came to this site and found your thread here, I have to say that I'm highly impressed! I do have a few questions for you and if you or anybody else here could give me an answer I would appreciate it. 
First, What is the meaning of “Reverse Flow”? I was going to have my 500 gal. Propane tank with two doors on each side with three sliding trays. With the bottom of the tank fully open under the trays. Then I found your thread with the angle iron used as a trip tray with the two sides welded on to make a solid shelf (lack of a better word to call it!;) ) with a drain hole on the end. Is this a part of the reverse flow? Or is it with the custom damper you built, or both?

The guy that is supposed to build the smoker for me says that the trip tray with the two sides isn’t necessary for a smoker. I told him that I like your idea and he says that it was a good idea and good work but it might be over kill. I think it may be the case that he doesn’t know about Reverse*flow smokers?*
*Also in one of the images of the smoker (alldoor.jpg” ) it shows a bar. I’m sending the image back with a question on it.*

*I noticed that some of the images that were listed here from “PhotoBucket” are no longer visible. Can I see them on Photobucket?*
*Thanks in advance,*
*Thomas*


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## bgrayd

Please excuse my dumb questions, but I've been reading this thread, and I am blown away.  I want to build one similar this (minus the skills), and was wondering about a couple of things...

Is there anything that you would do different (damper, firebox, drip channel, smokestack)?  I am completely "wowed" by your smoker, but was wondering if now that you've cooked on it, would there be any changes if you did it all over again?

Does it hold and maintain much better that one that is not reverse-flow?

again, bear with the stupid questions, I'm new to this, and trying to learn.

Brett


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## pineywoods

Reverse flow smokers are great I have been looking for a thread that shows the different designs and why many of us consider the reverse flow to be the best. Basically the fire travels under that steel plate to the other end of the smoker then rises into the chamber and comes over the meat and the exhaust stack is on the same end as the firebox. The heat is transfered thru the steel plate and eliminates any chance of flare ups and keeps a nice even heat that stays more stable. I will keep trying to find the thread I've been looking for that shows it


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## thomasyoung

Hello everyone and UncleBeef, 
 I think I now understand how the Reverse Flow Smokers work. 
I still have a question that needs addressing so I can understand and before I talk to the guy who is building the smoker for me. In the one picture that is named "alldoor" it shows what apears to be a square tubing support bar. Is this a part of the frabrication? what is the size of the bar? and is it for another purpose then support if it is for support. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  I sure would like to know before talking to the builder. I really do not think he knows a lot about Reverse Flow and I want to get my facts right!


Here is a drawwing of what I want made for my Bar-Be-Cue Smoker/Grill.

It has a large propane tank for the smoker, fire box, warmming box holder, a stand up propane smoker to hang hams, picnic shoulders, turkeys, etc.
Hope you all like the future setup!
Thomas


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## pineywoods

Thomas I can't tell you what Uncle Beef was doing there but heres the link to the thread I was looking for earlier it contains lots of good info check it out

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...ad.php?t=54542


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## thomasyoung

Hello Pineywoods,
Thanks for your quick reply and it explain a lot to me of the advantage of using reverse flow and the use of water for better cooking. That was a great link that you sent to me. However in looking at it, there is a difference to me from looking at the chart and UncleBeef's image of the same area. Is there an opening in the pan besides the drain plug for heat to vent? Maybe I missing it, I can't see an opening in that area in UncleBeef's built tank. Also I had a question before about a support bar from a privous posting. Is there a support bar there or is it just showing extra tubing that isn't a part of the build?
Thanks,
Thomas ~ Bear


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## tsywake

Thomas, the end of UncleBeef's smoker is curved, so from that angle its difficult to see the space between the drip pan and the end wall of the smoker.  It is very similar to the diagram above.


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## thomasyoung

Hello tsywake,
From what you are telling me that the space between the drip pan and the end wall of the smoker is the opening for the air flow. That makes sense to me and taking a closer look at it I can see that there is a gap between the end of his tank and the drip pan. You really do have to look at the photo closely to see it. I have included an image below showing red arrows that I take it is the air and what was showing on the diagram. Please let me know if this image is correct. I take it too as that bar is not a support bar because nobody has said anything if it was or not.

Thanks,
Thomas


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## Dutch

Thomas, as they don't show up in the final pics, those pieces that you thought were support bars are square stock that made it into the picture. But if you look at that stock again it shows where the top of the bottom rack would be in relation to the the opening.


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## tsywake

That is correct.  The air flows under the plate to the opposite end, then enters the chamber as your arrows indicate and flow back towards the firebox.


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## thomasyoung

Thanks Dutch. I had a feeling that they weren't for support, but since I'm also a "Newbie" at this I wanted to ask before it was too late.
Thanks again,
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Thanks Tsywake, I must have looked at that image of the Drain Pan opening at least a hundred times and never noticed the opening! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 I'm so glad you pointed it out for me. 
Thanks!
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Hello UncleBeef,
 I hope that you are around for these questions! First question is, I think you stated here on this thread that there was a 1/4 inch difference in angle of the angle bar connected to the tank so that it would drain easy. My questios are is it a 1/4 difference in the height of the bar from the front to the back to make it drain easier? Also do you have a pitch on both sides of the pans connected to the drain bar to make drain better. In looking at the photo in looks some what level. On another thread of a project built by ClinchMtnBBQ at: 
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...5&postcount=24 his pan seems to have more of an angle. What do advise in the build on this section?  Also do you by any chance have more images of the mounts of the door when the doors are shut? How did you attach the doord to the pins/pegs that you used?
Thanks,
Thomas


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## bgrayd

I have a question also...
How much of a gap did you leave between the drip pan and the side of the smoker?
http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z126/bgrayd/?action=view&current=drippantowallgap-1.jpg

I am wanting to build one very much like the one you did, it looks great.


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## pineywoods

The drip pan/steel plate runs from side to side it has a 1/4" slope from firebox down to the drain. The plate runs from the firebox to the other end about where the straight part goes into the concave shape/ 8-10" from that far end. The plate also slopes slightly down from both ends to the center/drain piece. Not alot of slope toward the center drain piece but enough for the liquids to flow down into the v shaped piece


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## thomasyoung

Ok guys,
I understand now about reverse flow and how it works with the delivery of the heat from the fire box. As you know I'm at the planning stage here in getting my Smoker/Grill made for me. I have my main tank which is an old used 500 gal. tank. Putting on a fire box and using the method of Reverse Flow in constructing it. Now here is my question and I think a real important one too. I was thing of putting a square peice of tubing from the large tank and into the smaller 250 gal. stand up tank and also turning the square tubing connecting the two into a dampaer control on it and have it go into a 250 gal. stand up tank to slowly smoke Hams, turkeys etc.. Do you think that this concept would take away from the original Reverse Flow going through the 500 gal. tank? Or should I make another fire box and is it possible to use reverse flow on a stand up tank??? Please see my trailer image below as that might tell you how I was going to set it up. Thanks I need all of your help before I talk to the welder!
Thanks again,
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Hello Everyone,
I've been thinking about this, in fact I have been thinking of nothing else!

If I take the 500 gal. tank and make it Reverse Flow and then connect a stand up 250 gal tank together, I would think that it would take away the Reverse Flow from the first tank? What to you guys think?? 

I made an image of the 250 gal. tank standing up on its end to be used as a Slow Cooker to smoke Hams, Turkeys and wild game, etc. What do you all think about that? Can Reverse Flow be used on a Stand up Tank?  If you have any ideas please share with me.
Thanks,
Thomas


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## morkdach

yes it would are you using the upright just for a warming oven


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## thomasyoung

Hello Morkdach,
I'm planning on using the stand up 250 gal tank as a slow smoker for smoking Hams, Turkeys, Sausage, Fish and the list can go on. I was planning on putting the different meat items and hanging them over some hooks. In some of the meat I was going to wrap them up in "Jet Net" so that they don't fall apart in the process. The 500 gal tank I was going to use for Ribs and other meats. In the image that I made in message #*83* 


 I have the 250 gal. tank in front of the 500 gal, maybe I should place them both in the back with the fireboxes both in the back? Or maybe a firebox placed on the side where the tank now shows in the drawwing?
Thanks,
Thomas 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Dang it! I just posted this and I was looking at the picture of the trailer with the tanks and was thinking if I put it in the back next to the 500 gal tank, I won't be able to open up the doors on the other side!! Any ideas out there????? HELP!

Thanks again,
Thomas


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## tsywake

You trailer would also be extremely back heavy.  You'd have to have something pretty stout up front to balance the weight.


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## thomasyoung

Hello tsywake,
I think you are right and I made a new image of the proposed Bar-Be-Cue trailer. Please let me know what you think. I think it will give the trailer the balance it needs.
Thanks,
Thomas


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## pineywoods

What about putting an adjustable baffle from the fire box into the warming cabinet and put a stack on the warming cabinet and use that for doing your hanging smoking? You could rig it so you could put shelves in or hanging bars


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## pineywoods

I moved this info here so as not to clutter Uncle Beef's fantastic build thread Thomas I hope you don't mind


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## morkdach

thanks we did hijack the thread


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## tsywake

Even the previous picture you linked would work, but that should be fine.  I just know from personal experience you dont want too much weight behind the axles. I have to keep my trailer hitched to my tractor until I get some more weight on it because I started by putting the smoker on the rear first.  Once I get the gas grill, kegerator and other compartments on the front it'll balance out, but right now its popping a wheelie.


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## thomasyoung

No I don't mind at all. Wouldn't want to take away from UncleBeefs thread. I do thank you UncleBeef for the work that you did as it did inspire me. Also a Big Thanks  goes out to all of those who have helped me on this thread. My welder has now gotten the idea as to what I wanted. I knew he didn't know a lot about Reverse Flow and thanks to PineyWoods for being able to talk to him and filling him in about all the positive aspects of this build. My drawing that I made up will pretty much be what I will get. Maybe one tank at a time.... However it's getting there now. We are beginning the build from the planning stages!! Ya Hooo!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 I will post pictures of the build as we go a long!
Thanks everybody!,
Thomas


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## morkdach

bring it on ready to see it come togather.
thanks to all builders out there for sharing bbq train driver zeeker uncle countrysmoker and you.


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## gotoleep

Da**, that is going to be heck of a project. Can't wait to see the progress. Remember, lots of pics. Good luck.


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## thomasyoung

Yeah from my head to the drawing board (my Computer) to the builder/welder. I'll make sure to take pleanty of photo's!!
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

You and me both! I love it when a plan comes together!!
Thanks,
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Hi everyone,
I need your help here please. What is the size of the angle iron used to catch the drips and water? I also need to know what is the size of the flat bar (in the picture it looks to be maybe two to three inches?)that is welded to the angle iron and the two pieces of sides. I need to know the size so that the water won't flow over the edge and into the bottom of the tank. One more question comes to mind. On a 500 gal. tank where abouts does the angle iron get tack on? I think that are all the questions for now, Thank You!
Thomas


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## pineywoods

Yes that is about where it stops if you look at Uncle Beef's picture you can see that end of the plate is square and the tank is concave therefore it can't be against the end wall. I think and I'm guessing here that it has about 10" of tank past where the plate stops this is where the smoke enters the smoke chamber


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## thomasyoung

Geez..... What is harder waiting for your Barbecue smoker and having it made for you when all that you're doing is eating, talking and sleeping Barbecue. Time can not go fast enough! Or the Welder who is making it for you has no idea what Reverse flow is and thinks there doesn't need to have a 1/4 drop in the drip rail has he says the ground will control that. Why me, if I could only weld!
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Hey everybody, On a 500 gal tank what are the sizes to cut the doors? Reason has to why I'm asking is the welder that I have said they should be small because otherwise they would be too heavy. Doe's that sound right? I gave him a picture of a 500 gal tank that Yoder sells from their Bar-Be-Que Tank. I don't know if that was any help. So if you have any ideas as far as what the dimentions that they should be I would appreciate it a lot!
Thanks,
Thomas


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## lightfoot

i dont have a big tank, but i have seen some on here and they seem to make the doors whatever size they want by using counterweights. maybe someone who has one will post some pix and measurements.  we look forward to your finished pix of the build! (and que-view)


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## rickw

I agree if there is no counterweight a good size door might be a challenge to open.  I had one put on my Horizon just so the wife would not have any trouble with opening it. Here is a pic of it.


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## thomasyoung

Well today was suppose to be the start of the build of my Smoker project after some delays.
 Today was called off because the guy who is doing the welding wants to get a awning to place over the tank and trailer in case of rain and heat from the sun. That sounded resumable to me. I will be happy just to see him working on it, and not have it has a stand still project! I'll keep everybody posted here on the progress and keeping my fingers crossed at the same time.
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Hello everyone,
Well it looks like my welder is starting on my project. He told me that he couldn’t work on it before because of all the rain we were getting plus he wanted to be in the shade and away from the Florida Sun. He now has a canopy over the tank and on a cement slab. So he should be working on it now. I say he should, but he wasn’t there when I came over, so I hope he starts being more steadfast in his work so I can see some progress!
 Here are some pictures of the tank and the trailer. I’m thinking that the trailer needs to be more beefy, what do you all think?

Thanks,
Thomas   
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





500 Gallon Tank – Photo 1 


500 Gallon Tank – Photo 2


500 Gallon Tank – Photo 3


500 Gallon Tank – Photo 4


500 Gallon Tank – Photo 5


Smoker Trailer – Photo 1


Smoker Trailer – Photo 2


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## morkdach

wow keep us posted on this


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## Dutch

Looking good. What is the length of you trailer? Is it going to be long enough to have a wood box on it?
Your tank mounts will help determin where to add additional cross members.


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## lightfoot

dang dude!  that's gonna be one serious smokin machine.
we simply must have more pix as progress continues!


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## pineywoods

Thomas I'm glad to see you convinced him to go with the tandem axles. With a 500 gal reverse flow and a 250 gal vertical theres no way I would have accepted a single axle. I think he will be adding more cross members as he gets ready to mount the tanks especially the vertical tank right now he has nothing for it so I'm sure your going to see more being done on it as he gets farther along with the build.


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## thomasyoung

Hi Pineywoods, 
Yeah I was concerned that if the trailer was going to be a single axle it wouldn't be enough. I also think that when I first took a look at it that it was a single axle. When talking to him on the phone I asked him about it and he informed me that it was a tandem axle. I told him sorry "I must have CRS" because I thought it was a single axle. We made light of it and that’s when I asked him where it was being built at. I'm just wondering if the trailer he has now is going to be long enough to hold all that I have planed to be on the trailer. I'll have to go over there with a measuring tape. If it isn't long for what I have planed is it safe to add onto the length of the trailer or should I use two longer one piece sides to on the frame? He was saying that he could just move the tires and axles back. With the 500 gallon tank I still need room for the Standup 250 tank and enough room for a large Chicken grill that Meadowcrest is selling.

I don't know the lenght of the trailer but feel it may have to longer.  I plan on putting a box on other side of the chicken grill I have planed. So I'm hoping that it's long enough to go along with my plans!

Thanks Pineywoods and Dutch.

Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Hey Lightfoot,
Yeah I think it will be one big and serious smoker/grill when it's all done. If you looked at one of my earlier post where I made my drawing of what it should look like you can tell it's Smoky the Bar-Be-Que Bear coming! ;) 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	




 Thanks,
Thomas


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## beer-b-q

Good luck on your build Thomas.  Looks like it will be a nice smoker when finished.

The only thing I see that would be questionable would be the frame you will be using.  That is the Back Bone of your build.  I would make sure he beefs up the frame you pictured as it looks a little lite to me other than the tandem axles.  

I would have opted for a frame custom made of Box Tubing with plenty of cross members, instead of C-Channel and adding them were it me .

It is almost as easy and sometimes more so to build the trailer from scratch fitting the project than to adapt one already built to it. JMHO


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## thomasyoung

Thanks Beer-B-Q,
The more I think about the more I'm going to go with another frame. There is a place near me that make trailers. I have one now that is a tandem axle w/breaks that is for holding equipment such as lawn mowers. I got it from there and it has served me well. I may go over there and just get a trailer from them and take it to my welder. I think Jerry (Pineywoods) may even know of the place, called EZ Wheels in Crystal River Florida. Thanks for your input as I had my doubts too and its better before he welds the tank on the trailer!!

Thanks again,
Thomas


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## beer-b-q

Be Sure to keep us posted as it looks to me like it is going to be one SUPER SMOKER.


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## thomasyoung

Hello everyone,
I went over to the welder who is fabricating my Smoker for me. I took a measuring tape to see how large the 500 gal tank was. It’s 10 feet long and about 3 feet wide. He was there drawing out where he was going to cut into the tank at the firebox end. This is going to be one big smoker. Plus I will have a 250 gal tank standing up on the end. He’s going to cut the round section off one end and weld a piece of flat metal to it and have it connect to a smaller firebox. I want to use this as a slow smoker for hams, sausage, turkeys.  I’m also planning on getting one of those *Heavy Duty Chicken Cookers* (BBQ Pits) from Meadow Creek. That will be at the front of the trailer. On the other side I’m going to put in either a box to hold fire wood or maybe a sink with a water tank to wash hands while you are cooking. Right now the trailer that is there for the tank is 17 feet long. I’m thinking that it will have to be longer. Tomorrow I hope to get some pictures of the build and upload them here.
Thanks,

Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Well I thought that the next time that I would be making a post here would be filled with lots more info and photo's for everybody to see. Sad to say that isn't the case. I just got back from where the 500 gal tank is and the trailer. The last time I took photos and submitted them here for everybody to see. It looks the same now as it did back then. The trailer is too small and his answer was to just move the tank backwards to get more room on the trailer! 

I even went with Pineywoods since he lives so close to me. He has been giving me some helpful suggestions on the build. Now it looks like I may be getting some stainless steel sinks with water tanks that run on a 12 volt system and I’m getting them free or next to nothing from a friend. The trailer will have to larger in length now. I only wished that I still had my 2008 F250 SD 4x4 truck. I sold it when I was going to get a new truck but found out that the dealer was trying to pull one over my eyes so I cancelled the deal. I’m waiting now for the 2010’s to come out. I wish I had it now though as all I have now is a transportation car that runs nice but isn’t a work truck. I don’t know if I hook up my trailer to the car that it could haul a 500, 250 and a 125 gallon tanks? I just know that I’ve got to get my tanks back and take them to another welder that isn’t so part time slow at his work! I may be venting here. I paid this guy some $2000.00 so far and that was for what he said was for stainless steel.  I very much doubt that now as I think he’s so lazy at getting the job done that he didn’t bother to lift his arms and write up an order. Talking to Pineywoods he says that it only looks like he has put in an hours work into the project. I think it may be even less and that the trailer was just sitting there gathering more rust.

Thanks for letting me VENT!
Thomas


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## thomasyoung

I've been thinking that since I'm getting no where with this welder /builder that maybe I should just do it myself? I think I read here that a plasma cutter will cut the metal before it gets to hot and warps the metal, right or wrong? Can I weld with a plasma cutter? Should I get a Arc Welder too? I have a friend of mine that’s does welding but his too busy for the build. I think that he would give me a few lessons before cutting and welding on the 500 gallon tank. I have a 300, 250, and a 125 gallon tanks. So I could practice on a smaller one first. I noticed that BBQ Engineer uses a Hobart Welder brand. I think that I could go to the Northern Tool store near me and get what I need. I just want my Smoker!!

Thomas


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## thomasyoung

Hello everyone,
I feel like I’ve been taking two steps forward and three steps back on this build. It should be fairly obvious that I wasn’t happy with the work the builder/welder was doing for me. So today I got over there around 9am to get my belongings back. No one was there. So I gave the builder/welder a call. Since he has the tanks at his brother’s place of business and that it is right behind his house, I took notice that his truck was still there. When making the call I got his voice mail. I told him that I was at his brothers business and that I needed to see him so call me back. Soon after that I heard his truck start. It sounds like a tank. So I gave him another call, then I noticed that he was coming our way. So when he got there and after the initial greetings to each other I told him that I was taking back the tanks since he wasn't feeling well and that he was busy dealing with selling cars and that the project didn't seem that it was going anywhere. That it would be best that I just take back my 3 tanks plus the 500 gal tank. He then says to me: "Well you know that there are no refunds on a deposit". I became at that point a little bit unglued. Firm but still in control. I said No, I don't remember ever agreeing to that. That I didn't really think that you would give me back my $2000. deposit just like that. I do however full expect to get all 4 tanks, the trailer, the wiring for the trailer plus all that Stainless Steel that you to order at that time. That I should be able to get back most of what I had paid for! So I left my trailer there so that they could load the tanks on it, took back the shoddy trailer that he built (most likely had lying around) and made plans to pick up my trailer with the tanks later today. He told me that he is going to drop off later this week the lights; wiring for the trailer plus all the stainless steel he bought that he claims is still waiting for him to pick up. If not I will take him to small claims court. If he does bring it over I do plan to ask him for more of the money that I gave to him, since he has put very little into this project.

I am SO GLAD to get it all back now, and further speaking it is a Blessing that he didn’t do much work on the tank. You should see the hole he put in on the bottom of the tank for a drain pipe. It’s all jagged and not uniformed at all. Looks like he made of circle using a drill. I could only imagine to my horror what the rest of the tank would look like if he still had it? That makes me wonder if I would have been better off doing it myself. You better believe that if I do have somebody else working on the smoker that I will check out there work first. I’ll take a photo’s of it with the rest of the tanks tomorrow, if anybody is interested. Personally it makes me sick to see such shoddy work!
Thanks,
Thomas


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## rio_grande

Sorry to hear about the problems, I hate to say it but I sent several years fabricating for a living. Durring that time I fixed more stuff others screwed up by either not having the tools or not having the skills. I learned on other things like this that ya just can't go on reputation or word of mouth on some things. Sometimes you just got to see THEIR work.. 

Good luck brother. 2000.00 deposit,,, Want to bring it to Indiana :)


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## beer-b-q

A lot of times it is better to have an established shop do your custom projects instead of taking them to someone who is basically a shade tree shop.  If they were that good at it why isn't it their primary occupation.

Hope you get all your stuff back including your money.


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## meat hunter

Sorry to hear about your situation. Just my 2 cents here. I have been a professional welder/fabricator for nearly 20 years. If you are planning on a do it yourself, then no, the plasma will not weld. It is for cutting only and will not warp metal like a torch. But cutting in straight lines are no as easy as just starting at one end and finishing at the other if they are long cuts. Better to do them in 12 inch or so increment with a 1/2" spot thats uncut and go back to it later and cut them spots. A plasma is the greatest too made, but metal will have a tendency to pull to one side when cutting all in one pass so that is why you make it in steps on long cuts. Next, if you buy a welder, I would say get a MIG (Wire Feed) welder like BBQ Engineer has. Much easier to use, and a much cleaner weld. But with all this said, if you are unfamiliar with any of these tools, especially the welder, you may be better off finding someone who can do it for you. Now here is something that may help you. If you are next to a trade/vocational school, many of them offer welding classes for the students. Im not saying to sign up, but rather offer to pay one of the students to do the work for you. Most of them need the money, know what they are doing and you can get the welding done for very little money. I would use them for mechanical work years ago when I did not have the time to do it myself. Just and idea. Simply go to the school and maybe even talk to the welding instructor and ask him which students he would reccomend.


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## thomasyoung

Hi Beer-B-Q,
I agree with you that I should now take it to a established shop to have the work done on it. When I got the tanks from a company that did landscaping and irrigation I asked if there was anybody they knew who made Barbeque Smokers out of Propane tanks. I got this welders name. Then I asked somebody who had some Smokers if they knew anybody and I got the same person. That’s how I got him. This sure has been a learning curve for me. I’m at the point that I don’t trust anybody without seeing their work and then making up a contract so it will be built according to my plans. I had a hard enough time convincing this former builder of my project what “Reverse Flow” was! He wasn’t going to make it that way, thinking that it was just extra and unnecessary work that he had to do. Finally because he listens to Pineywoods~ Jerry he accepted in making it. When a person does not listen to the owner’s wishes but listens to someone else is now a Red Flag to me that they don’t honor my viewpoint or wishes.  Right now, I have to think in what direction that I will go to. It’s been this long already. I may put off taking the build to anybody and opt out to do some of the work myself. First before I have anything done to the tank(s) I want to follow in the direction that UncleBeef had done.
I know that the trailer has to be longer then 17 feet long for what I have planed. When I got the trailer back my neighbor asked me if I was building a 500 gal. Smoker if the width of the trailer was too small” He said wouldn’t the heat of the smoker make it to close to the tires and cause damage? So I need to know from somebody that has a 500 gal. tank on their trailer, how wide is it PLEASE? I will continue on with my answer following the question from Meat Hunter.









Thanks Meat Hunter, I will accept any suggestions given to me 2 cents or not. I need to get some clarification so it’s good that you write!

I know now that the Plasma Cutter will not weld. It does cut the metal better then using a torch that can get the metal so hot it will warp on me. When I started to have the problem with this so called Shade Tree Welder I was wondering if I should just tackle it all by myself. That’s the reason as to why I was asking in an earlier post about the welding. I have followed both UncleBeef’s Build and BBQ Engineer Build. I want to get the trailer done so that it’s strong to carry what I have planned. Like what was told to me before, and I’m listening. That the trailer is the Backbone of my smoker. So I want to make very similar to the way UncleBeef has his trailer made but just longer. I need to find out like I asked above, how wide of a trailer for a 500 gallon tank that is nearly 4 feet wide. Then I want to take off all of the paint that is on it and bring it down to fresh metal. Maybe using some kind of paint removal or take it to a sand blaster near me. Which I may very well do since after its build in a mock up I was planning on getting the trailer and the tanks Powder Coated at this shop that I know does good work.
After I figure out the trailer and have that done and waiting for me I was going to try to do some of the work myself on the tanks. I have this buddy of mine that knows how to weld. He owns a Lawn cutting business here in Florida and it’s been real busy for him that he can’t do the work for me. He can however give me some pointers on the welding. He too recommends getting a MIG (Wire Feed) welder. I took notice of what BBQ Engineer was using and was about to get an Hobart brand of ARC Welder. I went on You Tube and did a search on ARC Welding and it looked simple to use. I was going to practice using some scrap metal before doing any real work. I know that the Mig’s use wires and that the Arc’s use rods. So I should get a MIG over an ARC? Is the MIG as easy to learn as what I noticed of the ARC on You Tube?
 You make a good point of the vocational school. There is one near me and I will look into it. I still would like to be able to learn how to do some welding and I know it can’t be any worst then the shoddy work I had done to the tank now. If I can do some of the simple work and then take what I felt was beyond me to a established welding shop to get the hard work done. I was planning on using one of the smaller tanks that I have as a tool to learn how to do the things I need to do on the big tank. When I do take on any of the tanks, especially the 500 gallon tank I will take your suggestion of: “if they are long cuts. Better to do them in 12 inch or so increment with a 1/2" spot that’s uncut and go back to it later and cut them spots.”  I also like what UncleBeef did by putting in a straight edge on the tank as a guide for the Plasma Cutter. 


Thanks,
Thomas


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## morkdach

200 amp mig welder would be the best for this app.and most as far as that goes.
if your going to get a plasma cutter get a 35 to 40 amp for your app.
you could get by with a 30 go slow.just my 2 pennys.
pm me if you want any help on which brands as i work on them and kinda know what works best for what.


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## meat hunter

So I should get a MIG over an ARC? Is the MIG as easy to learn as what I noticed of the ARC on You Tube?



Thanks,
Thomas  






[/quote]

Hi again. I would for sure go Mig over arc. BBQ Engineer uses a Hobart Mig welder. We talked many a night while he was in the process of building his smoker. As far as learning to weld. There is nothing like hands on with an instructor or someone who knows what they are doing, but you cab get some very good instrucional dvd's off ebay. I have seen them and they are worth the money. Shot from behind the welding helmet so you get a much better understandig of whats going on versus some still photo in a book. Keep you eyes open on craigs list for used welders in the 200amp range. Will tackle most anything you would ever need it for. Stay away from the 110 volt ones like they sell at sams. Good for light duty only.


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## thomasyoung

Hi again. I would for sure go Mig over arc. BBQ Engineer uses a Hobart Mig welder. We talked many a night while he was in the process of building his smoker. As far as learning to weld. There is nothing like hands on with an instructor or someone who knows what they are doing, but you cab get some very good instrucional dvd's off ebay. I have seen them and they are worth the money. Shot from behind the welding helmet so you get a much better understandig of whats going on versus some still photo in a book. Keep you eyes open on craigs list for used welders in the 200amp range. Will tackle most anything you would ever need it for. Stay away from the 110 volt ones like they sell at sams. Good for light duty only.[/quote]



Thanks morkdach and Meat Hunter, 
Well I think that says it all from what you are telling me. I will go with the MIG Welder. I know by looking at BBQ Engineer that he uses Hobart for his welder. I didn’t really know it was a MIG or an ARC, I just took notice of the brand. I know Hobart is a good brand because when I was a meat cutter I’ve always used Hobart for my meat saws and meat grinders. I also know that Miller is supposed to be a good brand too. 

On the Plasma Cutters I was planning on getting from Northern Tool and Equipment the Hobart AirForce.  250CI Plasma Cutter — 12 Amps. It states on the website there that the new AirForce[emoji]8482[/emoji] 250CI plasma cutter with built-in air compressor features a new lightweight design that is both lightweight and powerful. Built-in compressor for total portability and low system cost. Cuts mild steel up to 1/4in. thick using standard household current. New HP-25 torch is more comfortable, efficient and economical. That goes for $799.99. They do have the Hobart AirForce 400 Plasma Cutter with 27 Amps going for $1299.99. I see that they also sell Lincoln there too. I really don’t know much about Lincoln like Hobart and Miller. I do know that looking at the prices that I will look for a used one from Craig’s List. How do I know that when I buy it used that its still works? I’m already leery because I was burned before!
Meat Cutter, that was a good idea that you had in getting some instructional DVD’s. I have been getting some lessons just my using my iPhone and watching You Tube for the lessons too. Also I’m sure that my buddy who does weld can give me a few lessons  from time to time. And if I get into an area that I’m not sure on I do have him and all of you to ask.

Now even before I start with the plasma cutting or the mig welding. I want to get the trailer  set up right. I’m still needing to know if I have a 500 gal tank on it and it’s about 4 feet wide. How wide does the trailer need to be so it won’t damage the tires? Then I want to get the tanks needed for the build sand blasted. After all the welding is done I want to get them Powder Coated.

Suggestions on a width of a trailer needed for a 500 gal. tank please??

Thanks,
Thomas


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## tsywake

We had an old charcoal grill/direct heat smoker that was built using an extra wide tank.  Not sure how many gallons, but I am thinking it was in the neighborhood of 500 gallons.  We had an issue at first with heating up the tires and causing them to smoke.  With a slight axle modification, we were able to prevent that from happening.  As long as you've got at least 6 inches between the outside of the tank and the tires, you should be fine.  Just make sure there is some air movement in that area near the tires to help keep them cool.


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## thomasyoung

Hi tsywake,
Yeah I kind of knew by looking and getting a good eyeball at it that it might be in issue with the tires being too close to the tank and heat. Still I will have to go out there and take some measurements and photo's of it too. If I do MIG weld on this I do know now that I have a heck of a lot of Rust to clean off! I may just start all over on this. I once saw a movie and the guy says: "No matter how much polish you put on it... it's still a terd!" About what I'm thinking.
Thomas


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## pineywoods

Thomas even if you start with brand new steel you will have surface rust before you finish the project. Just clean the area your going to weld and when your done with the smoker have it sandblasted. In our climate you will not keep all the rust off while fabricating it.


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## thomasyoung

Thank you Jerry. I still might have to go to EZ Wheels and get longer axels. I guess I can do that later once I have the frame worked on a bit more.
Thanks,
Thomas


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## smokingohiobutcher

A 4-1/2 Angle grinder with a braided wire wheel or  a braided cup wire wheel will take care of that rust in a hurry!


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## pineywoods

There is a good welding shop between Crystal River and Homosassa called Lee's Certified Welding that does good work but they aren't cheap. If you get the plans figured out exactly you may want to get with them for a price. One of the first things is to figure out what exactly is going on the trailer and then lay it all out on paper and see what size the trailer is going to have to be. We kinda talked about the vertical tank which would be cool but if you built it on the ground to a height of 6' then put it up on the trailer could you still reach the upper part to hang stuff? We also talked about a sink that would be cool but would have to be figured out as far as what to use and how much space you'd need. As far as building it yourself I think it would be a fun project but it would require quite a bit in the way of tools and equipment. If your going to have doors on both sides of the smoker and have the tank centered on the trailer it can't be overly wide or you won't be able to reach into the smoker. How wide it needs to be I'm not sure but then I'm not even sure how wide the tank is. Just trying to throw some things out to think about


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## bigdale

Hobart makes good welders, I can attest to that as my family owns both a hobart "Buzz Box" that is probably 40 years old and a newer Hobart Beta Mig 250 that pretty much renders that old Buzz Box useless. They built them in town here for years and my dad went to their welding school just 4 or 5 blocks away 40 years or so ago. I would recomend that before you start trying to tackle a project like this yourself you practice, practice and practice some more or you may not be happy with the outcome. I will tell you that welding with a wire welder isn't all that difficult but there are alot of fundamentals that you should know before you start welding on things your going to pull around behind your truck. I am not trying to discourage you at all, I am just hinting that you may want to get somone you know to show you how to weld before you dive right in. Just a half hour of instruction and a few explanations would make this project alot easier on you. Also, as for that rust you can buy polishing wheels for a body grinder that are basically emry cloth lapped over a wheel... they are ab it expensive but they work great for weld preps


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## thomasyoung

Hi Pineywoods and everyone,
Ok I went out and took some measurements and I’m trying to put everything down on paper and have some kind of plan here. The first thing is as the trailer is now it is 14 feet long from the back to where it starts going towards the tongue of the trailer and 4 feet wide. I think that is plenty wide but I’m wondering if the axles need to be longer. Right now the space between the tires is 54”. That’s leaving about 3” from the frame to the tires. Are the axles wide enough to not cause any damage to the tires because of heat?

So now I have to take into consideration what is going on the trailer and the sizes of each item. The main tank the 500 gallon tank is 121 inches/10’1” in length and is 36” in width. The fire box that I think should go on there if I remember Pineywoods recommendation was 34” x34”? Most of that will be sitting outside of the trailer. 

Then there is the Standup Smoker. If I use the 250 gallon tank it is 26’ wide and I’m thinking of cutting ½ off one of the round ends to meet into the Firebox. From the cut off end to the top is 64” the total length of the 250 gallon tank is 76" aprx. (started to rain hard when taking measurments) 



The size of the Chicken Cooker Pit from Smoky Mountain Barbecue is as follows: 


*Measurements*

Overall Dimensions
39"H x 55.5"L x 30"W
Grate Dimensions
22" x 40"
Flat Grate Dimensions
22" x 41"
Cooking Area
6.11 sq. ft. (880 sq. in.)
Cooking Area of Flat Grate
6.26 sq. ft. (902 sq. in.)
Mesh
1.5" x 13" S.S. Expanded Metal
Metal Thickness
13 Gauge
Net Weight
250 lbs.


I want to put in a Stainless Steel tank to wash my hands. I have to find one that has been in a camper, as I do not want to pay the high price that I notice on the Yoder’s Smoky Mountain Barbecue. They want some $3000.00 and up in price.

Last I want to put in a Propane heater to fry fish or boil Corn. Anybody know what a normal size for this would be? Last on the front of the trailer a box to hold fire wood. I’m thinking 3’ x 4’ With a place to hold small propane tanks between the chicken grill and the boiler.

Just adding the one side, the 500, 250 gallon tanks, the Chicken Grill and the firewood holder is: 101” + 26” + 55.5” 36”= 218.5 inches and that’s making it right next to each other I’m thinking that if the trailer was a 20 footer it should hold every thing I have planned providing that the Stainless Steel Sinks with Cabinets and the Fish/Corn Boiler is not larger then the other side. Anybody know where I can pick up some used Sinks that use a holding tank and a 12 volt system? I tried looking on Craig’s List and haven’t found any.

Thanks,
Thomas

P.S.
Pineywoods, I was just thinking of taking it over to him at Lee's welding. The guy at EZ Wheels also told me he could make my smoker too.


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## thomasyoung

Thanks I will rembember that. I also have a large grinder that uses a sanding disk to grind off rust. I know what you are talking about too and that should do it.


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## thomasyoung

Thanks I like Hobart myself. Used their equipment for other practises and I know they make a find product. Other then Hobart I think Miller is good too.


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## tsywake

14 ft is a nice length.  If you need something to base your figures/estimates off of, check the thread I posted about my tailgate trailer.  It is 14 ft long, but is 7.5 ft wide.  My smoker is only 30" in diameter, but its a little smaller.  That might help with the scale.  As long as you have good air circulation around the smoker, you can reduce the heat on your tires.  As long as you plan to do indirect heating through your burn box, the actual smoker shouldnt get too terribly hot.  In that case, I'd think 3" would be ok.  If you ever decided to do direct heating with coals in the bottom of the smoker, then I'd worry about it heating your tires.

Using a grinding wheel with a wire attachment should work fine for knocking off the rust.  That is what I did with mine.  They make a rusty metal primer, which works well for the trailer.  I took the grinder to my trailer to knock all the rust off, then went ahead and primed it.  As I add to it, I'll just grind off where I am going to weld, and reprime it when I finish that spot.  I was losing the battle with rust, and couldnt afford to get it sandblasted at the end at $60 an hour.


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## meat hunter

You said you were going to have this unit powder coated? Heres something that may help you with your rust issues. Actually this is so you dont get anymore rust. Get your whole unit welded up the way you like it. Something this large is going to get some surface rust while your working on, there really is not a thing you can do about it. But, after its all welded up, you can keep it from flash rusting prior to paint. IF, the place that does your powder coating is a full service paint place, they should have this liquid thats almost like antifreese. If they blast thier pieces prior to painting them, they apply this liquid to them. It keeps the metal from forming any surface rust and if I remember right, it gives you about a 3 week window. I forget the name of it of right now but they will know. Get the amount you need based on what they tell you and apply it with a regualr weed sprayer on fine mist. Once your rig is all welding and finished, if you can, have it blasted. Then apply the preventor. I know first hand this stuff works as I worked on one of the largerst powder coating systems here in Minnesota. There are other rust preventer / rust convertors out there, but most contain some sort of pertroleum base and that is NOT compatible with powder coat paints. Once the piece is heated in their ovens, the petroleum/oil in the metal will come to the surface and your paint will not stick. I do allot of powder coating here at my shop where I strip old cars down and powder coat the pieces. The stuff I use is Eastwoods Metal Wash.


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## pantherfan83

With the discussion of weigh distribution front to back, aret there also considerations as far as the distribution of weight side to side?  I loaded a lot of lumber on a trailer one time and put a bunch of 16 ft 2x10s on one side and a bunch of 8 ft 1x6s on the other. At slower speeds, the trailer rode fine, but when I got on the highway it started swaying and I nearly dumped the load and was very close to crashing.  I'm not sure if it was because the weight was so much different left to right, or becuase the weight hung off the back of the trailer on one side and not the other. Anyone have any thoughts?


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## tsywake

What was the max weight load for the trailer, and could you have been close to the maximum weight if not over?  If you have a single axle trailer without springs, and it is overweighted, they can be a bear to drive.


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