# Masturbuilt CS kit vs A-Maze-n pellet tray???



## megabrisket (Apr 4, 2018)

Okay so I've been looking all around and found lots of discussion about these two products but one of my questions has yet to be answered. To people who've tried them both, which puts out the best smoke quality? I'm not worrying about a smoke ring right now just quality. I know both will extend smoke length which is another thing I'm looking for but the main thing I'm interested in is quality. I'm using a 30' MES. I had a similar question I posted on another thread that one person answered but I'd like to open it up to it's own thread so people can find it later if needed. Their response was the AMNPS produced good blue smoke. I haven't seen that in the videos I've watched of it but then again, they are just videos.

On a side note for the MES, has anyone tried using the tray and leaving the chip adder out for more air flow? Does that help with smoke quality? Seems like it would with more air flow.

Edit: Also I just bought to Traeger pellets that I haven't got to try yet. Will they work with the AMNPS if I go with it or are the A-Maze-N pellets different?


----------



## hillbillyrkstr (Apr 4, 2018)

Good thing your not looking for smoke rings cause your not gonna get them with pellets. Never used the cold smoke attachment but I own 2 pellet trays and a tube. I have 2 mes 40’s and I haven’t filled the tube with wood chips in 5-6 years. Amazn tray is where it’s at.

Traeger pellets will work but they have a bunch of filler wood in them. Amazn pellets are 100% what they claim to be so Apple wood pellets are 100% Apple wood. 

Good luck,
Scott


----------



## megabrisket (Apr 4, 2018)

hillbillyrkstr said:


> Good thing your not looking for smoke rings cause your not gonna get them with pellets. Never used the cold smoke attachment but I own 2 pellet trays and a tube. I have 2 mes 40’s and I haven’t filled the tube with wood chips in 5-6 years. Amazn tray is where it’s at.
> 
> Traeger pellets will work but they have a bunch of filler wood in them. Amazn pellets are 100% what they claim to be so Apple wood pellets are 100% Apple wood.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I'm considering the tray a bit more too because it's cheaper as well.


----------



## zwiller (Apr 4, 2018)

Not used the MES CS but have cold smoked plenty with the AMNPS and MES30 and very happy with results.  I was apprehensive about all the love for the AMNPS but it's legit.  True TBS (way better than I ever got with charcoal or gas) and it's basically set and forget for about 12 hours full loaded.   

Yes, I just leave the chip holder and other parts out.  No issues even on real windy days.

I have used Traeger's Texas Beef pellets and they worked great.  Not sure if Traeger used filler in the day or not but the current production descriptions are pretty clear they don't anymore and no other BS like bark, oil, etc.  That said, I like ordering direct from Todd as he is a member here and get warm and fuzzy supporting a guy that developed it.


----------



## megabrisket (Apr 4, 2018)

zwiller said:


> Not used the MES CS but have cold smoked plenty with the AMNPS and MES30 and very happy with results.  I was apprehensive about all the love for the AMNPS but it's legit.  True TBS (way better than I ever got with charcoal or gas) and it's basically set and forget for about 12 hours full loaded.
> 
> Yes, I just leave the chip holder and other parts out.  No issues even on real windy days.
> 
> I have used Traeger's Texas Beef pellets and they worked great.  Not sure if Traeger used filler in the day or not but the current production descriptions are pretty clear they don't anymore and no other BS like bark, oil, etc.  That said, I like ordering direct from Todd as he is a member here and get warm and fuzzy supporting a guy that developed it.


You leave the chip adder out so does that mean you put the AMNPS where the chips normally go or just somewhere on the bottom/lower shelf?


----------



## zwiller (Apr 4, 2018)

Depends on your MES gen but I put the AMNPS on the bottom rack to the right and put the water tray AKA drip pan on the 3rd rack.  It was designed for the Gen1 models and allows you to put it on the rods on the bottom left.  Be sure you have a nice torch to light it.  That's the key.


----------



## megabrisket (Apr 4, 2018)

Ya I'll have to get me a torch or one of those lighters that blows like a torch :P


----------



## jted (Apr 4, 2018)

Hi. You won't find many opinions on the better of the two, the tray or a smoke generator.  By name they are designed to smoke for  two different reasons The CS kit is for cold smoking. In my opinion the tray doesn't work real well at temps under 130. So cold smoking with it is harder. Yes you can do double duty with the CS kit. Folks who have the tray often use the mailbox mod when cold smoking then use it all the time. In that case it works great. Removing the chip loader is not recommended by Masterbuilt. Everyone finds out that the 3 little holes in the chip loader are not large enough. In my opinion you need more air in the box for the tray to get enough air. I like others would pull out the loader a inch or so to give it more air. That works Removing the loader in my opinion is not a good Idea since you can't adjust the volume. Too much air can cause flair ups You want the pellets to smolder. . The best Idea I have found is the River Rat damper. It is very easily adjustable to your needs.




















 the damper replaces the loader. I made mine out of a corn can. Do a search and you will find it.
Your choice of pellets in my opinion was not your best choice.
As Hilbillyrkstr stated they do use fillers. Don't get me wrong some fillers are not that bad I use Oak. Maple as well as adler is used with fish since it is a mild smoke. I like others want to know what we are burning.
The CS kit might put out more smoke but that in it's self is not good. The tray will put out the right amount of thin blue smoke. Not the harsh white that chips can put out. These are my OPINIONS. You asked for them. Jted


----------



## Rings Я Us (Apr 4, 2018)

Cold smoke kit vs Maibox Mod :cool:


----------



## megabrisket (Apr 4, 2018)

jted said:


> Hi. You won't find many opinions on the better of the two, the tray or a smoke generator.  By name they are designed to smoke for  two different reasons The CS kit is for cold smoking. In my opinion the tray doesn't work real well at temps under 130. So cold smoking with it is harder. Yes you can do double duty with the CS kit. Folks who have the tray often use the mailbox mod when cold smoking then use it all the time. In that case it works great. Removing the chip loader is not recommended by Masterbuilt. Everyone finds out that the 3 little holes in the chip loader are not large enough. In my opinion you need more air in the box for the tray to get enough air. I like others would pull out the loader a inch or so to give it more air. That works Removing the loader in my opinion is not a good Idea since you can't adjust the volume. Too much air can cause flair ups You want the pellets to smolder. . The best Idea I have found is the River Rat damper. It is very easily adjustable to your needs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup I wanted opinions :) Thanks for all the info! The damper idea is pretty good, I hadn't thought of it. I'm not really interested in cold smoking, I'd just like to extend my smoke times without adding fuel and increase my chance of getting better smoke, aka TBS. Thanks again!


----------



## SmokinAl (Apr 5, 2018)

I have used both & they both have their advantages, but if I could only have one it would be the AMAZEN.
Al


----------



## Braz (Apr 5, 2018)

I was about to type exactly what Al just said.

I have a GEN-1 MES40 and I never have the chip loader installed. In fact, I am not sure I could even find it. I have not experienced any problems with too much air flow or pellet flare up.


----------



## megabrisket (Apr 5, 2018)

Thanks for the info guys. If anyone else has an opinion keep em coming! I'm leaning heavily towards the AMNPS.


----------



## daricksta (Apr 8, 2018)

megabrisket said:


> Okay so I've been looking all around and found lots of discussion about these two products but one of my questions has yet to be answered. To people who've tried them both, which puts out the best smoke quality? I'm not worrying about a smoke ring right now just quality. I know both will extend smoke length which is another thing I'm looking for but the main thing I'm interested in is quality. I'm using a 30' MES. I had a similar question I posted on another thread that one person answered but I'd like to open it up to it's own thread so people can find it later if needed. Their response was the AMNPS produced good blue smoke. I haven't seen that in the videos I've watched of it but then again, they are just videos.
> 
> On a side note for the MES, has anyone tried using the tray and leaving the chip adder out for more air flow? Does that help with smoke quality? Seems like it would with more air flow.
> 
> Edit: Also I just bought to Traeger pellets that I haven't got to try yet. Will they work with the AMNPS if I go with it or are the A-Maze-N pellets different?


I've read that Traeger pellets are made of either one of two kinds of wood, and the flavors are derived from different oils instead of the woods themselves. I buy all my wood pellets from Todd Johnson/A-MAZE-N Products. I also bought my pellet trays and my Maverick ET-733 therm from him.

I have had issues with pellets dying it during cold smokes, and that's why I've been experimenting with Dust for those. But the issue with older MES smokers (I have a MES 30 Gen 1) is poor air circulation in colder temps. I just deal with it. A MB Cold Smoking unit or building a mailbox mod (although I thought about) just aren't right for me and my setup. But even so I have had a lot of successful hot and cold smokes with my MES 30 and the AMNPS. Still getting used to using the 6" pellet tube smoker (AMNTS).


----------



## Avman (Apr 20, 2018)

I use the mailbox mod with AMNPS and my MES 30 and get a great thin blue smoke every time. It also works great for a cold smoke for cheese. What I like the most is you just fill the tray set the temp and walk away. I use the Maverick meat thermometer which monitors the smoker temp and the meat temp.


----------



## Eric6711 (Aug 15, 2018)

I have used the Amps tray for 2 yrs and I also use the treager pellets. One gentleman said the CS kit is for cold smoking I think he is right. I’ve never heard the Treager pellets use filler wood I will look into that. I always have good flavor. I like them because there relatively cheap and a big bag last along time. About airflow you have to have it. I leave my chip loader cracked so it can draw air. I have a small fan I mean about as big as my hand that I put on top of my Gen 1 masterbuilt vent on top right and I can smoke for 12 to 14 hrs on a tray. Yes it can flare up if you get to much air. You have to find the sweet spot. 
Happy Smokin.


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

Eric6711
, I found the info about Traeger pellets not being made from 100% of the wood type online in smoking message board a few years ago. It might have been on SMF, I can't remember.  I've posted about it in a couple of different threads. I might've linked to it, too, but again that would've been a year or two ago. When I mentioned it in this thread, it was just from memory. 

What size MES Gen 1 do you own? I have the 30" and like you, use the AMNPS, but I buy all my pellets from A-MAZE-N. I've been using Todd's 6x6 AMNS with Dust for cold smokes and it works really well. I never bought the CS kit because it would be just one more thing to bring out with my smoker, and it would be attached. With the AMNS, I just remove the drip pan (thanks to @Bearcarver for that tip, fill the tray, and I get smoke for about 8 hours or so. 

I've read of some other guys using a small fan like you do. It's a great idea but something I haven't gotten around to experimenting with.


----------



## Eric6711 (Aug 15, 2018)

Daricksta
I have a 30 in Gen 1 I think I have the 5by7 Amps tray. I’m going to step up to a 40inch smoker. I’m debating between a Mes Gen 2.5 and the Smoke Tronix . I read a article that Masterbuilt owns Smoke Tronix or Smoke Hollow who makes them. Yes the fan works good. I light my tray with a torch and it smokes for 12 to 14 hrs. I smoked some bacon the other eve started at 430 pm and it was still smoking at 6 am the next morning. Bacon was a little strong though lol. Might need to cut down to 6 to 8 hrs.The treager pellets have good flavor I’ll take your advice though and try some different ones.
Eric


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

Eric6711
, the MES 30 Gen 1 was the first and only smoker I ever bought. When our budget can afford it, I'd like to step up to a 40", possibly one of the Gen 2.5 models or perhaps another brand. I'll make that decision _if_ the money ever comes in. I have a friend whose wife bought him a propane Smoke Hollow and he loves it. As for MB owning those two brands, this is the first I've heard of it. But Google has always been my good chum so I could readily find that out.

Costco sells pork belly, and makin' bacon is on my to-do list. The AMNPS is a great smoker, hampered by the intrinsic challenged air circulation in the MES smokers. I've found mine works best in warm weather. I started out using wood chips, and my family told me the meat was harsh and too smoky. I learned about A-MAZE-N here in the forums, and switching to it and wood pellets changed everything. Also, for a short while I tried using the gel lighter stuff instead of a propane torch. The pellets kept going out after the gel was burned up so I switched back to the torch.

I've never smoked bacon. Why did you smoke it for 14 hrs? It probably got all the smoke it needed after 6-8 hours, although I've gone 10-11 hours with pork shoulder (15 hours with a whole packer beef brisket because it smoked overnight). I was given a whole bag of Traeger applewood pellets a couple of years ago (THAT'S when I did my research!). I was excited about using them until I read that Traeger pellets (at least when the article or post was written) used flavored oils when making the pellets; the pellets themselves were made from one wood type for the east coast, and other for the west. The woods might have been white oak and alder, I can't really remember without finding that article again. The writer said that info was given to him from a Traeger phone CSR. After reading that, I gave the bag of pellets away to a friend of mine who owns a Traeger. I've used other brands of wood pellets. But Todd and Rhonda Johnson, owners of A-MAZE-N, provide such outstanding customer service, I buy everything from them.

Rick


----------



## Eric6711 (Aug 15, 2018)

daricksta said:


> Eric6711
> , the MES 30 Gen 1 was the first and only smoker I ever bought. When our budget can afford it, I'd like to step up to a 40", possibly one of the Gen 2.5 models or perhaps another brand. I'll make that decision _if_ the money ever comes in. I have a friend whose wife bought him a propane Smoke Hollow and he loves it. As for MB owning those two brands, this is the first I've heard of it. But Google has always been my good chum so I could readily find that out.
> 
> Costco sells pork belly, and makin' bacon is on my to-do list. The AMNPS is a great smoker, hampered by the intrinsic challenged air circulation in the MES smokers. I've found mine works best in warm weather. I started out using wood chips, and my family told me the meat was harsh and too smoky. I learned about A-MAZE-N here in the forums, and switching to it and wood pellets changed everything. Also, for a short while I tried using the gel lighter stuff instead of a propane torch. The pellets kept going out after the gel was burned up so I switched back to the torch.
> ...


Rick 
That was my first time smoking bacon lol except when I was a kid and my dad had a real smokehouse. I read some post and 14 hrs was the longest a couple of guys smoked it and they liked it. It had a strong hickory flavor lol. My wife said the flavor was a bit overpowering lol  I ate it and my 4 yr old grandson loved it lol. But ya this weekend I’m going for 8 hrs. It doesn’t surprise me about treager everything is made nowadays as cheap as possible.
Eric


----------



## dr k (Aug 15, 2018)

daricksta said:


> Eric6711
> , the MES 30 Gen 1 was the first and only smoker I ever bought. When our budget can afford it, I'd like to step up to a 40", possibly one of the Gen 2.5 models or perhaps another brand. I'll make that decision _if_ the money ever comes in. I have a friend whose wife bought him a propane Smoke Hollow and he loves it. As for MB owning those two brands, this is the first I've heard of it. But Google has always been my good chum so I could readily find that out.
> 
> Costco sells pork belly, and makin' bacon is on my to-do list. The AMNPS is a great smoker, hampered by the intrinsic challenged air circulation in the MES smokers. I've found mine works best in warm weather. I started out using wood chips, and my family told me the meat was harsh and too smoky. I learned about A-MAZE-N here in the forums, and switching to it and wood pellets changed everything. Also, for a short while I tried using the gel lighter stuff instead of a propane torch. The pellets kept going out after the gel was burned up so I switched back to the torch.
> ...


I haven't started the search for your post on the specifics of Traeger pellets from 

 Eric6711
 recent posts on Traeger pellets, and I want to reread it because many of us like it and some of the pellets are not oil influenced like the Traeger Pecan and Apple, just Alder or Oak 70% and 30% the flavor on the bag.  I don't consider that a filler wood because they are smoking woods that people blend like Pitmasters Choice or let say Todd's Cherry pellets to keep lit mixed with another.  Please repost your post if I don't find it first.


----------



## dr k (Aug 15, 2018)

daricksta
 I found your Nov. 2017 post on the 2012 post you quoted on Traeger pellets.  I have Apple and Pecan Traeger with 70% Oak.  I like the Oak with Pecan or Apple.  This is the part that applies to the Traeger pellets I have.  Who knows if they got rid of the oils since 2012 with the pellets I don't have.

I would have bet anyone 100 bucks that I never would hear back from her but today she called me and said she got a note from the mill with a breakdown of whats in the pellets.

The base wood if you are on the west coast is alder and the east coast is oak.

Mesquite or Hickory 100% base wood (alder or oak) with flavor oils no actual Mesquite or Hickory wood in the pellet 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Apple, Pecan or Cherry 70% base wood 30% Apple, Pecan or Cherry wood

Maple 100% Maple wood

Alder on the west coast is 100% Alder on east coast 70% oak 30% Alder

Oak on the east coast is 100% Oak on the west coast 70% Alder 30% Oak



daricksta said:


> Kurt, here's where I got my info on Traeger pellets. This is a SMF post from 2012. For their pellet base they use alder on the west coast and oak on the east coast. I bought alder pellets from Todd for specialized purposes and I rarely used them. It's possible the Traeger CSR didn't tell you the whole story. Here's a link to the post:
> 
> http://smokingmeatforums.com/index.php?threads/new-info-on-whats-in-traeger-pellets.116254/


----------



## Eric6711 (Aug 15, 2018)

dr k said:


> daricksta
> I found your Nov. 2017 post on the 2012 post you quoted on Traeger pellets.  I have Apple and Pecan Traeger with 70% Oak.  I like the Oak with Pecan or Apple.  This is the part that applies to the Traeger pellets I have.  Who knows if they got rid of the oils since 2012 with the pellets I don't have.
> 
> I would have bet anyone 100 bucks that I never would hear back from her but today she called me and said she got a note from the mill with a breakdown of whats in the pellets.
> ...


Guess I’ve got 70% Oak and 30% Hickory Oil. Wonder if it still the same


----------



## Eric6711 (Aug 15, 2018)

I love a electric smoker for the ease of use. But you can’t beat a stick burner for flavor. I actually considered a Treager before I got my electric glad I didn’t get one. Guess I’m switching pellets


----------



## dr k (Aug 15, 2018)

Eric6711 said:


> Guess I’ve got 70% Oak and 30% Hickory Oil. Wonder if it still the same


It's worth another call to Traeger and ask them.  I called Traeger in 2015 and the Chart I quoted from daricksta and what was told to me are the same with my Apple and Pecan.  It's about Hickory and Mesquite if they dropped the oils and went with true wood.  Then knowing that the milling lube oils aren't chain bar oil and vegetable oil for food safety.  Todd at Amazen Products discloses 100% wood on the bags and food safe lube oil.  I have primarily Todd's but I'd get Cherry Traeger if I can find it at $15.00/20lb. bag.  Locally I get Jack Daniel's Sugar Maple charcoal 20lb. bags at $24.00.  It's the mellowing charcoal they drip the whiskey through.  It doesn't taste like anything but grilling over charcoal and mixing it with another 100% wood pellet keeps it easily burning and lightens the other wood flavor.  Since Cherry is a more difficult pellet to keep lit by itself, I'd mix it with Todd's 100% Cherry.


----------



## Patrick_K (Aug 15, 2018)

what is the best thing to buy to light the tray?


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

You nailed the reason why I bought my electric smoker--the ease of use. If I ever get in a position where I can own one, yep, I want a really good stick burner. Get those smoke rings and crosshatched grill marks!


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

dr k
, Thanks Kurt for refreshing my memory. Yes, my info is 3 years old. But the bottom line is that I'm loyal to Todd and Rhonda, and they do sell great products. i'd rather older a 1 or 2 lb bag of pellets from them than buy a 20 lb bag of Traeger hickory or applewood pellets from a big box store. I've been using their Dust for cold smokes in my AMNS.  That combo works SO much better than wood pellets ever did at low temps, and I'm talking under 100 degrees here.


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

Kurt, thanks again for confirming what I had written about Traeger pellets. I thought I'd remembered correctly abou the base wood being oak in the east, alder in the west.  The main wood pellets I use are hickory, oak, apple, and Pitmaster's Choice which also has maple and cherry. I've also got pecan, alder, and mesquite. I've always been happy with A-MAZE-N products and so I've seen no reason to buy other brands. Their Dust is also excellent.


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

Patrick_K said:


> what is the best thing to buy to light the tray?


I use a propane torch I bought at Home Depot, one that appears to be discontinued. For a brief time I tried a fire lighter gel but the pellets kept going out when the gel burned off. I light the torch with a BIC BBQ butane lighter. The only issue for me is what to do with the empty propane cans, which I'm about to have. Those cans last years if you don't smoke all the time.


----------



## zwiller (Aug 15, 2018)

daricksta said:


> dr k
> I've been using their Dust for cold smokes in my AMNS.  That combo works SO much better than wood pellets ever did at low temps, and I'm talking under 100 degrees here.



Have any dust time comparisons vs pellets?  IE not totally happy with pellet smoke with cheese and thinking of running dust but no idea how much to load or how long.  I am about 2 hours with pellets with cheese.


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

Just so happens I do, zwiller! At low temps, I can get 6 hours or so out of a full AMNS tray. In fact I rarely use it all. But on a couple of occasions it has been like a wildfire decimated the Dust tray after the temp got too high. But I've had that seem thing happen with wood pellets, also about twice.

I've used both hickory and apple Dust with great results for cheeses and beef jerky. For salmon fillets, I just remembered I used alder, which is my least favorite wood. It just doesn't seem to burn as well as the harder woods. Typically, 1.5 to 2 rows of Dust does the job. Smoking should be more like 2-4 hours, depending on how much smoke flavor you want. I typically smoke them for about 6 hours--especially if there are issues with the Dust going out, which can happen in a MES 30 Gen 1 if air circulation is poor. My experience has been that once the Dust burns about 3/4 of the way up the first row, it's good to go for the rest of the smoke.

As I understand it, Dust burns better at low temps than pellets. So, I use the AMNS for Dust and the AMNPS for pellets.
You know Bearcarver, right? He's the one who suggested Dust to me about a year ago. The AMNS is similar in design to the AMNPS but it was designed for Dust, which is why I bought it. Just keep in mind that some Dust falls through the holes in the tray. but I usually sweep as much as I can back into the tray. But Dust is all I use for cold smokes now.


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

I might be overthinking this, but I just want to make it clear I have no connection to A-MAZE-N other than being an extremely satisfied customer of about 6 years. Todd's products and his advice helped me develop my smoking skills so that I consider myself a pretty good and knowledgeable smoker. i also credit SMF for introducing me a raft of incredibly talented and knowledgeable mentors who advised me, and introduced me to Todd Johnson and A-MAZE-N.


----------



## dr k (Aug 15, 2018)

I like Todd's Pecan dust in the AMNPS. I'll get Apple dust when I get his Cherry pellets


----------



## daricksta (Aug 15, 2018)

i've rarely used the pecan wood pellets I bought from him. I just seem to always reach for the hickory, oak, or apple. I got myself involved in a whole packer brisket throwdown with nephew who insists that pecan is used in Texas BBQ. I didn't bother to argue. I like oak marries well with brisket. But now that you mention it, maybe I will use the pecan pellets instead. 

Because of what I've heard about how hard it is to keep cherry pellets lit, I use Todd's Pitmaster's Choice, which combines cherry with hickory and maple. I just saw at my brother-in-law's house that Traeger sells that same blend (he owns a Traeger. He moved it inside a small shed because the wind played havoc with keeping the cooking temp constant).
I've been advised to always mix cherry with an easier burning hard wood like hickory or another fruit wood since it will keep the cherry pellets burning.


----------

