# Question about selling jerky



## builder59

I pretty much know the responses I will get but please be candid.

Here is Michigan things are getting pretty bad.  I'm a builder and do some remodeling and handyman services.  I am getting by but by no means making the money that I used to.  I have a lot of extra time on my hands and it is not so much a money issue as I do have some free time and I really like to smoke and mess around in my sausage kitchen.

I have stainless steel tables and a stainless deep sink as well as hot water and sanitizing equipment.  I want to make beef jerky and sell it.  My plan is to take top round or sirloin that I can get downtown Detroit at the meat plants for usually $1.89 lb sometimes less. I can make 30 lbs at a time and  I have a commercial canister vacuum packer and want to package 1/4 lb units for $5.00 ea. My plan is to make about three weeks worth at a time.

I have a lot of shot and beer bars locally and was thinking about walking in on Fridays I guess with some samples and sell my jerky that way.  I thought a couple guys having a brew after work might say yea give me a pack or two.  After all $5 is not that much to part with.  I already have a huge following for my jerky recipe and make pretty close to 50 lbs a year for sale for guys going fishing or hunting.  

I am trying to make about an extra hundred dollars a week or so to just kinda help out with my spending money that I used to have up until a couple of months ago.  I also believe that I will only be spending about two hours at most hitting the local watering holes.

I know about the health dept. I will take every precaution to make things clean.  I have been in a lot of restaurant kitchens in my day and most I would never eat in again, so I  know I'll be cleaner than that.
 Do you think this will work?


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## bigtrain74

See, this is tough... 
First off I would get premission from the bars to sell... They may ask you for a cut of the money, or not... Then there is your packaging... Technically you need to list every and all ingridents of your jerky alone with how much is in each package. 
You would also have to say on your sticker that your jerky has not been authorized for sale by the FDA. (This is just to cover your own butt)

To be burtually honest with you this is a great idea especially with the amount of people who love jerky but who are too lazy to make their own. Or to get the great flavor of a native made prouduct without all the preservatives, but without the proper insurance and liscencing and all I would not take the risk in doing this...


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## harrylips

Hi Builder, I'm in Warren, MI.

My mother tried to open a cheesecake business out of our home when I was a youngin'.  The problem she came across is that we had a dog and a cat...which no matter how clean or sanitized everything was, that was a big no-no to the health department.  So if you have a pet, and nothing has changed since the early 90's, you would need a seperate entrance to the jerky kitchen that is not acessible to the rest of the house.

This and the licensing and the fee pretty much made her only cater to friends and collegues which she still does to this day.  Once you open to the general public, you open youself to a lot of legal issues.


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## builder59

I have a seperate building altogether for doing this.  Commercial fridge and basically a commercial kitchen.  I would ask the bar if I could do this and I also would be doing this on the sly as far as the health dept is concerned.  
My thought is basically if a couple of friends are sitting at a table like I do we all usually have ten to twenty bucks laying on the table.  I would politely approach and ask if they would like to try some home made jerky and give them a sample and then let them know I have it for sale.  I would package as close to 1/4 lb. as possible and I would not label anything as I don't want anything to get back to me.  After a few weeks of visiting the same places I hope to get a following.


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## garyt

Sorry but it sounds like asking for trouble, either jump through hoops to do it all legal like or don't do it at all, otherwise you are just looking for trouble down the road, Sorry just don't want you get into trouble but that is my suggestion. I would be scared sh*tless of what come back to haunt me.


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## txbbqman

Almost wish I had not read that part.

Seriously, you are asking for major problems with this route.

I too would make it legal, if for no other reason than to cover your rear end. Today's Society is a litigious ( sp ) society. All you need is 1 person to get sick or file a complaint and you could very easily lose everything you have, including that nice commercial kitchen.

Not worth it in my opinion


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## flatbroke

I agree,  I have an acquaintance that owned a packaging plant, in the Salinas CA area,  who big part of the business was Spinach.  well we all heard about the spinach problems and deaths that came of it.  His company wasn't the one ultimately to blame but he was put through the ringer and ultimately lost the business.


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## mginani

I say go for it.  Sounds like a great idea!


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## pantherfan83

I was making sausage and selling it to friends and family, then it expanded to their friends and family and expanded on from there.  It got too big and out of control.  I got worried and shut it down for the reasons that everyone said here.  Basically if anyone gets sick or complains, your butt and everything you own is on the line.  If you are not going to get permission from the bars, why would they let you do business on their property?  I can see a bar owner or manager calling the police on you real quick.  Even if you cut them in on the action, you are still exposing them to liability.

Go legit or quit


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## mginani

He said he was going to ask the Bars.


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## ddave

Recipe for disaster in my opinion. In today's society do you really think that you could not be held liable or have your face sued off just because you didn't label anything??

What he said.^^ If you do it that way, it actually sounds like a good idea.

Dave


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## woodentrout

Actually USDA, not FDA has authority on meat products, and technically you can't even give it away to the public unless it is inspected.  So, first start with USDA and your local health department for a commercial kitchen license.  The local Extension office should also be of some assistance with whom you need to see regarding this too.
You may find the HACCP plan required for meat manufacturing to be not worth the bother to go down this road, but Extension should be able to put you in contact with someone in the Meat Science group at MSU to give you the lowdown on that issue.

Good luck.


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## pantherfan83

I thought that said that at first, but then it sounded like he was going to approach customers at the bar, so I wasn't sure.  First I thought he was going to sell the jerky to the bars and they would sell it to the customer, then it sounded like he was going to sell it directly to the customer himself.  If he's selling it to the customer, what's in it for the bar owner?

What got me started was reading Rytek Kutas' book.  Sounds like he started out selling kielbasa (similar to the way builder59 is talking about) to bars.  I was thinking I could start small and see how things went and see if I was going to be able to make any money before going the legit route. Of course Rytek's story was from a long time ago and I'm sure you could get away with a lot more back then than you can now.  Turned out I was doing a whole lot of work and not making much money, needing more space and bigger equipment (which I couldn't afford) in order to be more efficient.  Add on worring about liability led me to shut it down.


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## builder59

Thanks for all of the responses.  It seems it's really hard to make a buck these days with all the red tape.  By the time I do everything legit with the fda and the tax man.  It is definitely not worth it.  I was just hoping to make 100 to 150 bucks a week extra.  You folks are right about not losing my house.  It's very nice.

To clarify about the bars, around here every one is good ole boys so to speak, I'm sure when the guys would eat the jerky right there in the bar it would sell a few more beers to wash it down.  Around here everyone is very laid back, but you are right, all it takes is one bad person.  Personally I can't see anything going wrong with the jerky process.  Buy fresh meat take care of it right away use your cure and process quickly to temp, should be a no brainer.  But I will take everyones advice and cool it.  The response is what I thought it would be, I just wanted to see if my gut reaction was correct.

Thanks again,
Ron


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## mulepackin

I still wouldn't let the idea die at this point. It shouldn't cost anything to at least explore the option of doing this enterprise in a legitimate fashion. Check with some of the agencies mentioned, maybe even the SBA for a business plan, then decide where to go. Yeah, it is tougher to make a buck in this day and age, but not impossible.


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## pops6927

The problem is it becoming too much of a good thing - someone else will get wind of it and turn you in because they wanted to do the same thing and didn't because of all the reasons above; I've seen it happen to many a meatcutter throughout the years getting ambitious.  Then, the next thing you know, one of the 'good ole boys' sitting around the bar is a USDA inspector ready to buy up a whole bunch of your product and his buddies are outside ready to arrest you; saw it happen at football games, a friend and meatcutter (who had his own deer cutting side business) was selling venison jerky to the locals the very same way. Midway thru the high school season (his son was a junior and on the varsity team), a USDA plant 'gave a donation' for a couple packages (he thought that would protect him asking for 'donations' - nope, still selling it, just at a negotiable price) and State Troopers arrested him outside the high school when he went to leave, he got a citation for selling adulterated and unlabeled meat, all his equipment in his barn (it was like a separate shed, very nice, impervious walls, floor drains, everything - I'd urged him several times to get it inspected as a wild game processing plant but he was stubborn) was confiscated and he had to go to court.  He settled for a $10,000 fine plus a $15,000 'detainer' fee for his equipment (their cost of auctioning it off, storage, moving, etc.) and was put out of business for good.  All because (he suspects) a meatcutter who helped him process a few deer one weekend got p.o'ed because Doug was selling his jerky and his wife wouldn't let him sell his own because of the very things above, so he turned him in.  Of course, Doug couldn't keep his mouth shut and had to brag to him how he scored bigger than either team at the football games, making over $100 at each one and that got the other cutter ticked off enough to toss him under the bus.  The complaint he turned in was that the jerky 'had a funny taste' and that's all they needed to do an investigation.
At that time I was considering selling a little breakfast sausage on the side.. scuttled those plans in a hurry!  Oh yeah, Doug also lost his job as a meat department manager over it too, which at that time was paying over $25/hr plus OT at least 8 hrs. a week or more (minimum work week was 6 days, 48 hrs a week).  Last I knew he moved to Pa. to be a boner on a processing line in a packing plant, at about $8-$10 hr., Moyer's if I remember correctly.

My advice?  Explore what it will take to be a legally owned and operated processing plant, however be it so small, get your processing license, and you can show a loss up to 5 years (which gives you a nice tax break while moving towards profitability and extra monies back on your taxes!) while you do the necessary processes to become an inspected plant.  Then, when you get your USDA seal, produce away, find markets for your product, sell it part time until you can expand and grow.  Within 5 years if you have a good product (and I'm sure you will!) you can move to bigger facilities, be a full - time processor, and start the empire that all your future generations will grow to know and admire!  The only person stopping you is you!


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## azrocker

I think that sounds like a plan!


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## builder59

Pops',

That does sound like an idea, as you say it won't cost but a little time to investigate.  I really appreciate your time it took to respond being so thorough.  I really like this site, you sure can get a lot of information from these forums.

Thank you again,
Ron


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## reichl

couldnt he do it at a bar that sells some food too?  I wouldnt think it would be a big deal if the bar had snacks like popcorn, chips and salsa ect. as long as it was cool with the owners.  I dont see how it would be any different.


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## the dude abides

I say to sell to family and friends that you trust.  But other than that you need to remember you're likely selling to people who may be in the same financial boat as you, or worse.  All it's gonna take is one person to get sick and think "I'll sue that guy and that'll set me up for a while".  Just hate to see you get you're life ruined over it.

Like dad always said "son, you keep playing with bees, you're gonna get stung."


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## danielb

Seems anytime you talk about starting any kind of business the default reply is don't do it. If you do someone will sue you etc.

You are a builder right? Builders get sued all the time. That doesn't mean you quit. You just cover your butt.

Same thing with this business. Just do it by the book and cover your butt.

There is risk in anything you do. But you can't let that stop you. At least check into it if it's something you really want to do. You may find the hoops make it not worth the effort but you may also find it's not that big of a deal. 

I say go for it.


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## txharleyrdr

Selling in bars may work if the management doesn't mind. The problem with that is if they sell food or snacks they may not appreciate you taking potential business from them. If your jerky is a bit spicy you might win them over by pointing out their customers will drink more beer to off-set the spicy taste.

You might try automotive shops and even gyms. Lean beef is a good source of protein that lots of people working out like. The auto service industry is full of people who frequently don't have time or opportunity to leave for a snack. You will likely find that people will swarm to purchase a good jerky product but then won't buy any for a while so having several places you only visit a couple of times a month is a good idea.

Good luck and remember that without the proper permits and set up you will be selling a "black market" product.


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## jax13

Things are obviously different in the US compared to here in the UK but there was a couple of people over here went onto the dragons den TV show looking for an investment to turn their jerky business into a nationwide chain. 

The one I'm thinking of failed to get the investment however the exposure alone gave them the ability to sell to a bigger market and I've seen then at country fairs and the like a couple of times. 

More recently, a brand called texts joes went on and secured an investment so it is clear there is a marketable product and in the states, the jerky business is massive compared to across here! 

I am in the process of setting up a marmalade brand and aside from eho approval (local health debt.) I need to liase with trading standards for my packaging and a food lab for shelf life advice etc. on my products. 

All in all, the outlay isn't huge if you know how to go about it and are looking at small one man operations. 

I would say it is well worth doing things legitimately to cover yourself fully from anyone who sees fit to drag you to court and with the proper approval insurance fees shouldn't be too bad. You say you aim to do a couple of weeks worth at a time but if you changed tack slightly and went for a supply rather than sale business you could have your product in the bars all the time, not just a Friday night for half an hour,  convenience stores, hardware stores, gun / hunting and fishing stores etc. You may find there is a big market for it so get out there with your product and speak to business owners and potential stockists and give them a sample bag. If they like it, and are keen to stock it then you know that any financial outlay will have some degree of security. 

You will find its got g to be one extreme or the other... No interest and not viable or high interest and worth doing properly. 

Good luck!


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## wade

I started a thread specifically on this topic yesterday. I am trying to encourage people from here who have started selling their produce to share how they went about it with others.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/158207/turning-your-hobby-into-a-business#post_1139771


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## wade

Jax13 said:


> ... I am in the process of setting up a marmalade brand and aside from eho approval (local health debt.) I need to liase with trading standards for my packaging and a food lab for shelf life advice etc. on my products.
> 
> All in all, the outlay isn't huge if you know how to go about it and are looking at small one man operations.
> 
> I would say it is well worth doing things legitimately to cover yourself fully from anyone who sees fit to drag you to court and with the proper approval insurance fees shouldn't be too bad. You say you aim to do a couple of weeks worth at a time but if you changed tack slightly and went for a supply rather than sale business you could have your product in the bars all the time, not just a Friday night for half an hour, convenience stores, hardware stores, gun / hunting and fishing stores etc. You may find there is a big market for it so get out there with your product and speak to business owners and potential stockists and give them a sample bag. If they like it, and are keen to stock it then you know that any financial outlay will have some degree of security.


Unless you are going to go beyond giving it away to friends then it is essential that you do things properly from the start. If not then the litigation potential is vary scary. As Jax points out the outlay in the UK is not huge - especially if you are registering as a Sole Trader. I set myself up as a Limited Company - mainly so that I can recover tax on equipment purchases - but whichever way you do it talk to the EHO/FSA before you start. I have found that they will go out of their way to help you - it is in their professional interest to do so.

You really also need to go on a recognised food safety course too in order to show a minimum level of training/competence in the safe handling of food. The one day certificate (Level 2) is really the minimum if you are preparing low risk foods (jam, chutney, smoked cheese etc.) however the "supervising food safety" level 3 courses are recommended if you are preparing any of the higher risk foods (fresh/smoked meats/fish or cured meat products) - although these take considerably longer and are more expensive.

Start small and grow with your local market. Until you have demonstrated that other people _actually do_ like what you produce (and importantly will pay for it) then avoid over committing your resources. Seasonal diversity is always a good idea too.

You will also be expected to have laboratory shelf life testing and nutritional analysis done, however I found that this was a lot easier and cheaper to do than I was expecting.


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## bigwheel

Ok not to be a bad influence on folks but I am still stuck in the outlaw phase of the hobby. I am an old retired guy with plenty of free time and not much hope of squeezing out big bucks on frivolous law suits. Might could stand a stern warning or a small fine for the first offense if the law dogs show up..but .I seem to selling all I can make at a once a week beer joint stop. The guys at the 2nd beer joint are getting antsy. Aint had none left for them in two weeks now.  My goal is to make enough to cover the bar tab(s) marketing budget on that... and buy some version of round. That stuff is fixing to get crazy high priced if it aint bad enough already. Anyway there should be some time left for repentance a little farther down the road. Hopefully. I been giving them lushes 3.5 oz for five bucks..but its fixing to drop to 3. That is the only way I can figure out how to use five buck a pound meat and sell it for five bucks. What am I missing here? Thanks.


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## jax13

My pricing structure for the marmalade (different product, same principle) is to work out the cost price per unit - including fuel, packaging, labelling etc. Then work out the time taken including time spent selling /delivering. 

Put a price on your time per hour, multiply by time taken, divide it by number of salable products per session and you have your true cost price. I did this with 3 different sized jars as bottling time, cost of packing goods and number of units altered. 

If your current selling price is below this figure then it is not a viable product in its current time form, if it's over then you are onto a good earner.


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## bigwheel

Well I done tried to explain I am retired and my time aint worth much of anything cept if I can keep occurpied it might prevent my Little Bride from joining Alice kramden on the moon. Surely this aint normal. I aint good at math. Thanks.


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