# Anyone ever rolled cheese in rub before smoke?



## dave17a

Seen someone do it on another forum. Looked good, sounds good.


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## chef jimmyj

Never thought of it but sounds good...JJ


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## wade

I often roll cheese in fresh herbs - never a rub though. If you try it let us know how it turns out.


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## dave17a

Wade said:


> I often roll cheese in fresh herbs - never a rub though. If you try it let us know how it turns out.


You first. Ha. Might try a couple later. Herbs sounds great. What kind of herbs on what kind of cheese Wade?


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## handymanstan

Sounds interesting,  Do you think the 2 week to 2 year wait being vac paced would cause the rub to penetrate the cheese more?

Stan


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## dave17a

HANDYMANSTAN said:


> Sounds interesting,  Do you think the 2 week to 2 year wait being vac paced would cause the rub to penetrate the cheese more?
> 
> Stan


Dunno. What if you scored the cheese just a hair or better yet score halfway here and there.


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## handymanstan

I don't see a benefit of smoking the rub on the cheese at low temps just smoke the cheese then add the rub before sealing.  Cinnamon and sugar rub might make the kids like it.  I will have to try some different rubs on smoked cheese I have and see what that's like.

Stan


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## chef jimmyj

@Stan...Cheese, Butter, Pork Fat, and saturated fats in general, pickup smells/flavors at any point they contact them. Rubbing before and after will give the strongest flavor. Once had several cheeses inclucing a selection of Blue's wrapped in butcher paper in a covered tote for a demo. Two days later opened them all up and several of the fatty semi-soft cheeses had a bit of blue funk to them...JJ


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## handymanstan

Thank you Chef JJ.   I am going to try smoked rubbed cheese a few different ways.  Last night I tried a couple rubs sprinkled on some smoked cheddar and it's good but to salty for me so I will have to make rubs with less salt.  Herbs sound good too ( Thanks Wade ) and i want too try some of that also.  One of the best things about this site is all the ideas.

Stan


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## dave17a

Chef JimmyJ said:


> @Stan...Cheese, Butter, Pork Fat, and saturated fats in general, pickup smells/flavors at any point they contact them. Rubbing before and after will give the strongest flavor. Once had several cheeses inclucing a selection of Blue's wrapped in butcher paper in a covered tote for a demo. Two days later opened them all up and several of the fatty semi-soft cheeses had a bit of blue funk to them...JJ


Guess hard cheese would be best. Rubs minus the salt, cause of the salt in cheese? Dunno, maybe just herbs. Oregano feels best for now on Mozzerella?  Let's keep going. I am not a chef by all means, but this could get good.


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## dirtsailor2003

I rub the cheese with ground hatch chiles sometimes. Then vac pack, gives the cheese a nice punch!


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## handymanstan

Would the herbs have to be dried or would fresh herbs go bad during the vac-pac time?  If fresh herbs are used what would be needed to be safe and not get nasties.

Stan


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## chef jimmyj

Fresh herbs can be pureed and used as a marinade for a couple of days then wiped off. They would spoil vac-packed for a long period. However dry herbs at the would be fine for dryer cheese, fresh Mozz, not so much....JJ


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## handymanstan

*Thanks again JJ, I kind of thought the same that the moisture in the herbs would be bad to vac. *

*I have wintergreen plants under my apple tree and think a wintergreen cheddar might be good. I am worried about nasty things on the plants though.  *

*I think store bought dried herbs would be safe but fresh herbs scare me. *

*When making a marinade should I heat to 140* or would dehydrating in a dehydrator to 150* or so kill off everything I worry about.*

*   Lots of birds and squirrels in that tree during the summer doing their thing. *

*When I make tea out of the wintergreen I pick the leaves and wash in cold water ( should I be using soap too or some other disinfectant )then dry in dehydrator.  I use boiling water to make the tea so I don’t worry about nasties.  *

Stan


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## wade

HANDYMANSTAN said:


> Would the herbs have to be dried or would fresh herbs go bad during the vac-pac time?  If fresh herbs are used what would be needed to be safe and not get nasties.
> 
> Stan


The best cheese to use for coating with herbs are soft cheeses like Feta, soft goats cheese or a fresh mozzarella. The Corsicans have built a national economy around these and they mainly use sheep and goats cheese - though I have also used buffalo cheese quite successfully. While in Corsica I spent time with some cheese producers there and they use a mixture of fresh and dried herbs for the coating. Hard herbs like rosemary they simply chop finely and use fresh -  whereas soft herbs like basil and oregano they dry before chopping and using. Different farms use signature herb blends to make their product unique. These herb coated cheeses are designed to be eaten quickly and not for maturing for long periods. They are usually packaged in simple greaseproof paper wrappers however some of the larger commercial brands do shrink wrapped in plastic.

I have created some very reasonable approximations to the cheese I have eaten over in Corsica using a mix of fresh and dried herbs from the garden. They taste divine but they do need to be kept chilled so I would not recommending trying to either smoke them or to age them.

Give it a go - it is very quick and simple to do. Adding this creamy herby cheese to a cheeseboard alongside some lovely aged home smoked cheddar provides a beautiful contrast.


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## dave17a

Wade said:


> The best cheese to use for coating with herbs are soft cheeses like Feta, soft goats cheese or a fresh mozzarella. The Corsicans have built a national economy around these and they mainly use sheep and goats cheese - though I have also used buffalo cheese quite successfully. While in Corsica I spent time with some cheese producers there and they use a mixture of fresh and dried herbs for the coating. Hard herbs like rosemary they simply chop finely and use fresh -  whereas soft herbs like basil and oregano they dry before chopping and using. Different farms use signature herb blends to make their product unique. These herb coated cheeses are designed to be eaten quickly and not for maturing for long periods. They are usually packaged in simple greaseproof paper wrappers however some of the larger commercial brands do shrink wrapped in plastic.
> 
> I have created some very reasonable approximations to the cheese I have eaten over in Corsica using a mix of fresh and dried herbs from the garden. They taste divine but they do need to be kept chilled so I would not recommending trying to either smoke them or to age them.
> 
> Give it a go - it is very quick and simple to do. Adding this creamy herby cheese to a cheeseboard alongside some lovely aged home smoked cheddar provides a beautiful contrast.


Now we are getting deep. Opened a can of worms and is getting informatly good.


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## handymanstan

I'm glad you did Dave....One more question please.  Will the sugar in a rub effect the cheese over time sealed?  Maybe reduce salt and sugar?

Stan


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## wade

HANDYMANSTAN said:


> I'm glad you did Dave....One more question please.  Will the sugar in a rub effect the cheese over time sealed?  Maybe reduce salt and sugar?
> 
> Stan


I think you will have to do some trials to see. Many hard cheeses like Cheddar already have a significant salt content and so I would be careful about adding much more salt. Also, I have not tried it but I do not like the thought of the taste of cheese with added sugar - I am willing to be converted though on this one if someone can vouch that it tastes OK...

I would suggest that to begin with you make your favourite rub mix with just the herbs and spices (without any of the sugar or salt) and see how that turns out. Try it both smoked and unsmoked too. I think either should work out OK and I will give it a go this weekend. I will also try a small batch with both sugar and salt included and let you know how they all turn out.


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## wade

Cheese bought and rub and herbs mixed. Will put up a Q-View soon.


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## handymanstan

Wade said:


> Cheese bought and rub and herbs mixed. Will put up a Q-View soon.









   Are you smoking it?


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## wade

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Cheese... pickup smells/flavors at any point they contact them. Rubbing before and after will give the strongest flavor... JJ


As JJ mentioned the cheese will pick up the smells and flavours of whatever they are in contact with. I am trying this with both my normal "fresh" moisture reduced and commercial dried herbs to see if there is much difference in the strength of flavour. I have not tried comparing before so it will be interesting to see.

For the cheddar I prepared one of my favourite rubs with everything apart from the salt. Yes in the end I decided to keep the sugar in just to see what it was like!

Ground black pepper

Lemon pepper

cayenne pepper

chili powder

dry mustard powder

garlic powder

Szechuan pepper

cinnamon

light brown sugar

This I sieved this over all surfaces of the cheddar slices. I only used a dusting as the favour is very intense













Rub Coated 2.jpg



__ wade
__ Feb 8, 2014






The soft cheeses I split into two batches. One was covered in the fresh herbs and the other with the dried herbs. The surface of the cheese is lightly coated in olive oil first to get the herbs to adhere. Fresh herbs on the left and dried herbs on the right.













Coated.jpg



__ wade
__ Feb 8, 2014






Soft cheeses wrapped ready for maturing in the fridge













Wrapped.jpg



__ wade
__ Feb 8, 2014






The cheddar has been split into two batches. Two pieces have been wrapped and will go into the fridge unsmoked (bottom) and three pieces are now in the smoker and will come out at about 9pm tonight (UK time)













All Cheese.jpg



__ wade
__ Feb 8, 2014






There will not be much more to show for a week or so. I was contemplating putting a webcam in the fridge so that you could all stay riveted watching it mature live - however I realised you would only be able to see anything when the door was opened and the light came on...


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## handymanstan

Thank you Wade for such an amazing presentation. 

I would have to try the fresh herb cheese in a week or every day to see the differences in flavor.

I am going to smoke some cheese today and plan on trying a few small chunks with rubs when sealing.

Will be waiting to see how it works for you.

Stan


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## chef jimmyj

No need to make yourself crazy. Just wash the herbs well, No Soap and spin or pat dry. Birds and Squirrels don't put out anything that can't be rinsed away. If you are super worried about bacteria. rise the herbs with white vinegar then rinse in water. Many marinades contain salt. vinegar and or wine which kills bacteria. If you wish you can heat your marinade just until it starts to simmer, 185°F, then put the pot in ice water to cool quickly...JJ


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## handymanstan

Thank you JJ, I feel better now I was just worried about putting mold or bacteria in to the bag for however long. I will try the white vinegar on the wintergreen this summer.

I did smoke 4 pieces of Cheddar then added rubs when sealing. one sage and parsley, two Cinnamon and sugar, one in lemon pepper.

Stan


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## wade

Looking forward to hearing how they turn out. Just be patient though and don't be tempted to try them too soon!


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## dave17a

Wade said:


> Cheese bought and rub and herbs mixed. Will put up a Q-View soon.


Can't wait and tell me what cheese and herb. Thisa isa great!.


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## dave17a

Wade said:


> I think you will have to do some trials to see. Many hard cheeses like Cheddar already have a significant salt content and so I would be careful about adding much more salt. Also, I have not tried it but I do not like the thought of the taste of cheese with added sugar - I am willing to be converted though on this one if someone can vouch that it tastes OK...
> 
> I would suggest that to begin with you make your favourite rub mix with just the herbs and spices (without any of the sugar or salt) and see how that turns out. Try it both smoked and unsmoked too. I think either should work out OK and I will give it a go this weekend. I will also try a small batch with both sugar and salt included and let you know how they all turn out.


Wade, Thanks. ready to figure this one out. It all sounds greeeat! Can't wait to expeiment! GO USA!


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## handymanstan

Wade said:


> Chef JimmyJ said:
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> Cheese... pickup smells/flavors at any point they contact them. Rubbing before and after will give the strongest flavor... JJ
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> As JJ mentioned the cheese will pick up the smells and flavours of whatever they are in contact with. I am trying this with both my normal "fresh" moisture reduced and commercial dried herbs to see if there is much difference in the strength of flavour. I have not tried comparing before so it will be interesting to see.
> 
> For the cheddar I prepared one of my favourite rubs with everything apart from the salt. Yes in the end I decided to keep the sugar in just to see what it was like!
> 
> Ground black pepper
> 
> Lemon pepper
> 
> cayenne pepper
> 
> chili powder
> 
> dry mustard powder
> 
> garlic powder
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> Szechuan pepper
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> cinnamon
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> light brown sugar
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> This I sieved this over all surfaces of the cheddar slices. I only used a dusting as the favour is very intense
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> Rub Coated 2.jpg
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> __ wade
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> The soft cheeses I split into two batches. One was covered in the fresh herbs and the other with the dried herbs. The surface of the cheese is lightly coated in olive oil first to get the herbs to adhere. Fresh herbs on the left and dried herbs on the right.
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> Coated.jpg
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> __ wade
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> Soft cheeses wrapped ready for maturing in the fridge
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> __ wade
> __ Feb 8, 2014
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> The cheddar has been split into two batches. Two pieces have been wrapped and will go into the fridge unsmoked (bottom) and three pieces are now in the smoker and will come out at about 9pm tonight (UK time)
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> All Cheese.jpg
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> __ wade
> __ Feb 8, 2014
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> There will not be much more to show for a week or so. I was contemplating putting a webcam in the fridge so that you could all stay riveted watching it mature live - however I realised you would only be able to see anything when the door was opened and the light came on...
Click to expand...

Wade have you tried the cheese yet?  It's been two weeks or more.

I tried a block that I sealed in maple syrup and there is no noticeable sugar or maple flavor in the cheese but the maple syrup is the best smoky flavor. Going to have pancakes tomorrow.

I tried a block I did with Cinnamon and sugar and I can taste the Cinnamon in the cheese but its not sweet.

I tried a block I did with lemon pepper and it is real tasty but salty with a strong citrus taste. Weird thing is this block is harder denser the the other two like it's aged longer. All cut from same block so I wonder if the salt is affecting the cheese.

I will reseal them and wait a month and try them again.

Stan


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## wade

Tomorrow is the big day :-)


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## wade

Right - The cheeses have been cut and tasted... Drum roll please 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Top Left - Soignon Goat Log - sliced. Left - "Fresh" herbs. Right - Dried herbs

Top Right - Olde York Artisan soft sheep cheese. Left - "Fresh" herbs", Right - Dried herbs

Bottom - Wookey Hole cave age matured cheddar. Left - Smoked. Right - Unsmoked













Whole Cheeses 3.jpg



__ wade
__ Feb 23, 2014






The cheeses were blind tasted by a randomly selected individual (Joyce, my wife) and her verdict was...

With both the herb coated soft cheeses the herb flavour had nicely penetrated the cheese. With the fresh herbs the herb flavour was immediate however it went fairly quickly. With the dried herbs the flavour took time to build but lasted for longer. She did not have a preference as both tasted good but both were different.

With the BBQ rub dusted Cheddar cheese, even though the rub was a light dusting, the rub flavour was so intense a that she could not tell which one was the smoked cheese and which was unsmoked. The flavour of both was pleasant however the smoking process had been a waste of time.

I then tasted them and agreed with all of her verdicts.

I think that the conclusion from this test is that, by all means use BBQ rub on your cheese for flavour, but do not bother to smoke it afterwards.

With regards to the herbs - both dried and fresh are good however preparing the dried herbs was much less hassle than preparing the fresh. In the future I will continue to use both fresh and dry herb methods.


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## dave17a

Master! Thanks since I opened t
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





his can of worms.


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## handymanstan

Wade said:


> Right - The cheeses have been cut and tasted... Drum roll please
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> Top Left - Soignon Goat Log - sliced. Left - "Fresh" herbs. Right - Dried herbs
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> Top Right - Olde York Artisan soft sheep cheese. Left - "Fresh" herbs", Right - Dried herbs
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> Bottom - Wookey Hole cave age matured cheddar. Left - Smoked. Right - Unsmoked
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> __ wade
> __ Feb 23, 2014
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> The cheeses were blind tasted by a randomly selected individual (Joyce, my wife) and her verdict was...
> 
> With both the herb coated soft cheeses the herb flavour had nicely penetrated the cheese. With the fresh herbs the herb flavour was immediate however it went fairly quickly. With the dried herbs the flavour took time to build but lasted for longer. She did not have a preference as both tasted good but both were different.
> 
> With the BBQ rub dusted Cheddar cheese, even though the rub was a light dusting, the rub flavour was so intense a that she could not tell which one was the smoked cheese and which was unsmoked. The flavour of both was pleasant however the smoking process had been a waste of time.
> 
> I then tasted them and agreed with all of her verdicts.
> 
> I think that the conclusion from this test is that, by all means use BBQ rub on your cheese for flavour, but do not bother to smoke it afterwards.
> 
> With regards to the herbs - both dried and fresh are good however preparing the dried herbs was much less hassle than preparing the fresh. In the future I will continue to use both fresh and dry herb methods.


Wade your cheese sure looks good.  I will be trying some different rubs with the next batch I do. Thank you for trying and showing us your rubbed cheeses!!

Stan


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