# Seasoning after curing and before smoking



## blake06

Hello,

First time making bacon and have been reading a bunch of threads for info.

I have 2 5lb slabs curing currently.  Both dry cure starting with the basic Charcuterie dry cure.  1 slab I added black pepper, garlic powder, some steak seasoning, and thyme.  The other has black pepper and brown sugar.

I have a Rec Tec and was planning to hot smoke to 150 IT based on some recommendations from friends, but after reading on this forum I'm hoping to cold smoke instead.  I bought the Rec Tec cold smoker box that is shipping to me at the moment.  I've read some negative reviews about the temperatures not getting quite cold enough in the cold smoker box, but it does look like I should be able to get close to 100 on the bottom rack, and I'm thinking that maybe I could add an ice block (maybe a large gatorade bottle of frozen water) to possibly get it below 100.

Planning to do maybe 6-10 hours at 100, then rest in fridge overnight, then do another 6-10 hours at 100.

If you see any issues in that plan, let me know!

But my main question is about seasoning the bellies after the cure.  I know I need to rinse off, then probably do a fry test to see if I need to soak to lower salt content.

After that I know I need to rest it uncovered in fridge for a couple days or even better in front of a fan at room temp to form a pellicle.

However, what about seasoning it?  If I want to season with some extra black pepper or a rub or so forth (maybe some maple syrup on the sweeter slab that has the brown sugar), can I do that?  Should it be done before resting in the fridge to form the pellicle? Or afterward right before I put it on the smoker?  Would rubbing maple syrup on one of them before smoking ruin the pellicle formation process?

Thanks!


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## daveomak

I don't see where you added any cure #1... pink salt... sodium nitrite...  to the curing process...    Hot smoke only...  do not cold smoke....  bring the final Internal Temp up to 150 ish in 1 (one) cooking process...    do not double cook.....


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## blake06

Sorry, that probably wasn't very clear.  On both slabs, I started with the basic Charcuterie cure, which does include the curing salt #1 (along with kosher salt and sugar).


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## daveomak

How much of each ingredient in the "basic" charcuterie cure, and how much are you adding to how much meat....


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## SmokinAl

I am assuming you have cure#1 in your cure mix.

6-10 hours over 2 days is fine. Personally I only do 1 day & it's smokey enough for me.

I put my spices on before the rest period.

I usually put the spices on, then rest for 4 days in the fridge uncovered.

Cold smoke for 10 hours.

Then rest for 4 more days in the fridge uncovered.

Then into the freezer for 3 or 4 hours & slice.

Hope this helps!

Al


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## wade

blake06 said:


> I have a Rec Tec and was planning to hot smoke to 150 IT based on some recommendations from friends, but after reading on this forum I'm hoping to cold smoke instead.  I bought the Rec Tec cold smoker box that is shipping to me at the moment.  I've read some negative reviews about the temperatures not getting quite cold enough in the cold smoker box, but it does look like I should be able to get close to 100 on the bottom rack, and I'm thinking that maybe I could add an ice block (maybe a large gatorade bottle of frozen water) to possibly get it below 100.
> 
> But my main question is about seasoning the bellies after the cure.  I know I need to rinse off, then probably do a fry test to see if I need to soak to lower salt content.
> 
> After that I know I need to rest it uncovered in fridge for a couple days or even better in front of a fan at room temp to form a pellicle.
> 
> However, what about seasoning it?  If I want to season with some extra black pepper or a rub or so forth (maybe some maple syrup on the sweeter slab that has the brown sugar), can I do that?  Should it be done before resting in the fridge to form the pellicle? Or afterward right before I put it on the smoker?  Would rubbing maple syrup on one of them before smoking ruin the pellicle formation process?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi Blake

I have not used the Rec Tec cold smoker but from reading the reviews and watching the YouTube posts I think it is really stretching the term "cold smoking". You could try using blocks of ice in the cold smoke chamber but if you put them in the original cooking chamber you will probably find that the controller will just increase the burn to keep the cooking chamber up to its programmed temperature. I think you sadly may have a challenge  on your hands there doing a real cold smoke.

An alternative that would enable you to cold smoke (at least at outside air temperatures) would be to use an inexpensive cardboard box smoker. I was teaching a customer how to make and use one of these over the weekend and will post some photos when I get home.

For the seasoning you usually try to put sufficient seasoning in at the start of the cure as this allows it to diffuse evenly throughout the meat. Hopefully you will find that the mix you have used will be sufficient. If not then you could add more but you should note how it turns out and adjust accordingly for your next batch. When I first started making bacon I needed 3 or 4 batches to get the seasoning just as I wanted it. 

Once cured just rinse it off under the tap - no need to soak it - then leave it in the fridge uncovered for 24-48 hours to allow the surface to dry. Then you can smoke it. Try to keep it as cool as you can during the smoke - but don't get paranoid. You say it is 80 F during the day - does it get cooler at night? Yes, you can split the smoking times over 2 nights without a problem. As Al mentions - you may nor need to smoke for that long but you can adjust accordingly for your next batch.

Once smoked allow it to dry for 24 hours in the fridge and then wrap in plastic wrap or vac pack. The smoke flavour will then diffuse through the bacon in the fridge over the next few days - I usually leave mine at least a week.

Yes you should take a slice after it has been cured - but don't test the end of the slab as this will taste more seasoned than the main bacon. Either cut 3 or 4 slices and use the innermost one as your test or cut the whole slab in half and take your sample from the middle. 

Don't forget to post some photos


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## blake06

DaveOmak said:


> How much of each ingredient in the "basic" charcuterie cure, and how much are you adding to how much meat....


450 grams kosher salt (1lb morton)
225 grams sugar
50 grams curing salt #1 (2oz, about 8 teaspoons)

Of that basic cure above, I used 90 grams per 5lbs of meat (equivalent of 1 tsp of cure #1 per 5lbs meat)


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## blake06

Thanks for the details Al!


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## blake06

Thanks, Wade.

It should be down in the low to mid 50s at night when I'm ready to do the smoking.  So with that, and with a frozen water bottle in the cold smoker box, I'm thinking I'll be able to get the bottom rack of the cold smoker box down maybe as low as 80 degrees.


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## daveomak

blake06 said:


> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much of each ingredient in the "basic" charcuterie cure, and how much are you adding to how much meat....
> 
> 
> 
> 450 grams kosher salt (1lb morton)
> 225 grams sugar
> 50 grams curing salt #1 (2oz, about 8 teaspoons)
> 
> Of that basic cure above, I used 90 grams per 5lbs of meat (equivalent of 1 tsp of cure #1 per 5lbs meat)
Click to expand...

That will work just fine... Good job....    Dave


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## wade

Try the Rec Tec with ice before you commit your bacon to it. If you find that it gets too warm here is a low/no cost alternative...













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This was a demonstration for a customer using salmon and cheese, but the kitchen sieve with pellets lasted for about 5 hours when fully loaded, and I have successfully smoked bacon using this setup before a couple of times.


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## dirtsailor2003

Along the lines of seasoning, I like to season during the cure and then again after rinsing, prior to forming the pellicle. 

My cousin has a Traeger with the cold smoke box on it. He finally gave up trying to use it with the smoker running. It worked great as a warming box but not cold enough to cold smoke. What he does now is he uses one of the AMNTS tube smokers from Todd at Amaze N Smokers. He places it on the opposite end of the smoker from the cold smoke box. This set up only raises the temp 10-15 degrees.


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## blake06

No need for a fan for the cardboard box setup?

Looks pretty awesome.


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## wade

No. The natural air/smoke flow through the smoker is good without any assistance


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## blake06

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Along the lines of seasoning, I like to season during the cure and then again after rinsing, prior to forming the pellicle.
> 
> My cousin has a Traeger with the cold smoke box on it. He finally gave up trying to use it with the smoker running. It worked great as a warming box but not cold enough to cold smoke. What he does now is he uses one of the AMNTS tube smokers from Todd at Amaze N Smokers. He places it on the opposite end of the smoker from the cold smoke box. This set up only raises the temp 10-15 degrees.


I saw a thread on another forum where a guy had done some temperature tests with the Rec Tec cold smoker box.  Running the smoker at 180 with an outside ambient temp of about 37, his bottom shelf on the cold smoker box was 74 degrees, middle was upper 90s, and top was 120 or so.   That was without any ice in the box.  But his ambient air temp was 20 degrees colder than mine is going to be.  So with the ice, I'm thinking I can get down to about 80.   That should be sufficient for cold smoking if I can actually get down to that temp, correct?

As for idea of using a tube smoker, I do actually have one (haven't ever used it), but when searching in google, I saw several people mentioning that you would need a fan if you do that.  Is that not the case?  Could I just put the tub smoker in my rec tec on the far left of the main smoker chamber and not need any type of fan for air flow?


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## wade

Sometimes you find that one size does not always fit all and you actually need more than one type of tool (smoker) in your box. I am waiting with interest to see how you get on using the Rec Tec as your smoke generator and I hope it goes well. I would not be surprised though if after you have tried to use it you find that you move to a different solution for cold smoking that will be less fiddly.


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## dirtsailor2003

blake06 said:


> I saw a thread on another forum where a guy had done some temperature tests with the Rec Tec cold smoker box.  Running the smoker at 180 with an outside ambient temp of about 37, his bottom shelf on the cold smoker box was 74 degrees, middle was upper 90s, and top was 120 or so.   That was without any ice in the box.  But his ambient air temp was 20 degrees colder than mine is going to be.  So with the ice, I'm thinking I can get down to about 80.   That should be sufficient for cold smoking if I can actually get down to that temp, correct?
> 
> 
> As for idea of using a tube smoker, I do actually have one (haven't ever used it), but when searching in google, I saw several people mentioning that you would need a fan if you do that.  Is that not the case?  Could I just put the tub smoker in my rec tec on the far left of the main smoker chamber and not need any type of fan for air flow?



My cousin hasn't had any draft issues and he just places the tube in the smoker. He is a computer geek and he did rig a fan but he found he didn't need it.


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## blake06

Awesome, I might try with just my amazen tube in that case and see how that works.

What wood do you guys like best for smoking bacon?


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## dirtsailor2003

That all I use for smoking bacon.  I use it in my vertical smoker and it works great. 

Your tube would work for smoking in a cardboard box also. Fire it up and give it a try. Throw a piece of cheese in and see what happens .


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## daveomak

I've tried PC (pitmasters choice) and hickory...    For bacon, I think hickory is really good..  PC is good but not "bold" enough for bacon... 

PC is my main go to wood for most everything else... it's mild and forgiving when adding to most all meats...


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## wade

I find Hickory works best for me too. Sometimes Pecan.


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## hondabbq

I just smoked 2 bellies, 18 lbs in my smoke vault with just my AMNPS for 16 hours with both ends lit and one pellet reload during the period. 


Sent by me from here.


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## blake06

So just an update.  I smoked my bacon using the AMAZEN tube smoker inside my Rec Tec smoker.  Temp was about 65-70 degrees throughout the smoke.  I used CookinPellets perfect mix pellets.  Smoked for about 11 hours.

I let rest in fridge afterward for a couple days, then in freezer for a few hours, sliced and vacuum sealed.

Took out a pack last week and cooked some up in the oven.

Unfortunately, it doesn't taste very good.  Seems like it's way too smoky, almost tastes like a campfire.

Could I have done something wrong while smoking?  We did have some sprinkles/light right during a few hours of the smoking.  Maybe it got too humid and that caused some type of problem?

My overall smoking time seems like it's on the lower end of what I have been reading on these forums, so I'm not sure how I could have over-smoked it...

Ideas?


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## daveomak

blake, afternoon....    The meat must be at a temperature equal to  or just above the smoker temp so condensate does not form on it...   The meat should have a pellicle formed on it...   Dry the meat in front of a fan, on a wire rack, for an hour or so until it gets a tacky to dry surface..    The tube smoker puts out a lot of smoke..  too much for small volume smokers...   The Rec-Tec smoker could be  lacking on air vents so you may not have had enough air flow inside for the tube smoker....


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## wade

I have a couple of AMNTS tube smokers too and they produce way too much smoke for cold smoking. I only use my AMNPS for cold smoking as it produces a much finer smoke - and even then it needs a good air flow through the smoker. I think it was probably a combination of too much smoke and a lack of air flow through the smoker.


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## blake06

Dave and Wade, thanks for the replies!

Is AMNPS the snake tray?  Or is that something else?

I did dry the meat (in the fridge for a couple days, not with a fan) and it seemed like it had the tacky feel to it.  However, I did put it straight from fridge into the smoker, so the meat was definitely colder than the ambient temp when it went on the smoker.

So, maybe I had an issue both with condensate and also with too much smoke and too little air flow.

For my next attempt, if I let the meat sit at room temp with a fan, and then put it on the smoker when the ambient temp is lower, that should correct the condensate issue?

And for the smoke and air flow issue, do you think I could just prop the lid open a couple inches on the rectec?  Or should I also get an a-maze-n tray instead of the tube?  Should one or both of those together help my over-smoked issue?

Thanks!  I'm sure hoping next time turns out better, as it stinks to waste an entire pork belly...


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## blake06

Maybe I should rig up some type of mini computer fan or something to set inside the smoker to get the air moving?


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## daveomak

Try the tube 1/2 full  ...   Laid on it's side half full...  see if it will burn like that...   That should reduce the smoke...   Cracking the lid might be the way to go also for more air flow..


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## wade

Hi Blake

Yes the AMNPS is a snake tray. If you have not checked out Todd's site then take a look as it shows the difference.  https://www.amazenproducts.com/category_s/12.htm. The AMNPS is better suited for producing smoke slowly at cool temperatures  (either inside the cold smoker or in an external mailbox mod to feed into a hot smoker) whereas the Tube smoker is better designed to be used inside the hot smoker at ~225 F.

From Todd's site he says that the AMNPS takes up to 11 hours to burn 15 ozs df pellets whereas the 12" Tube smoker takes up to 4 hours to burn 12 ozs (albeit at a higher temperature). When I first received my Tube smoker i did a side by side test with it against the AMNPS with the same weight of pellets and the Tube smoker did burn the pellets much faster and burned out in about half the time it took the pellet smoker.

You may find this video helpful as it shows an extended AMNPS in use and the amount of smoke it produces. 

To see this you need to skip through to about 7 minutes in.

Give Dave's suggestion of only half filling the tube a go to try to reduce the smoke from the Tube as it may work. It isn't something that I have tried. Cracking the lid could also help to reduce the smoke in the chamber by letting it escape but it may not do much for the actual flow of air. Again, it is something to try.

In my commercial style cold smoker I use a flue fan to ensure that the smoke and air is continually flowing through the chamber but I am not sure if this would be practical with the Rectec.

In the past I have even fitted "flue" fans to a Weber kettle to help improve the air flow when cold smoking













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## blake06

I'll try the tube on it's side to see if I can get that to work, and if not I'll get a snake tray.

Should I perhaps try a fan instead of just cracking the lid?  Think something like this would work?  
Would I put that on the left side of my rectec and blow toward the right to push the air, or put it on the right side to pull it across?


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## wade

The one I use is a Silverstone FM121-B as it is a variable speed fan that is finely adjustable using the variable speed controller that comes with it.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=118&area=en

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220014

http://www.overclock.net/products/silverstone-fm121-case-fan













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They do an 80mm fan too which may fit the flue better

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=515&area=en


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## sundown farms

I have used the tube smoker half filled with pellets and it burned fine. Less smoke and in my MES 4.0 that was good. It does burn them faster.


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## dave17a

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DaveOmak said:


> I've tried PC (pitmasters choice) and hickory...    For bacon, I think hickory is really good..  PC is good but not "bold" enough for bacon...
> 
> PC is my main go to wood for most everything else... it's mild and forgiving when adding to most all meats...


What Dave said. Hickory is it. Pc smells so good when smoking! This my set up. Get hickory from friends for trade of course. Keep up the good work.


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## blake06

All, just wanted to report back that I finished my 2nd attempt, and it worked great!!

What I changed:

After letting bacon sit to dry on a rack in refrigerator for a day, I think also took it out and let it dry at room temp for several hours with a tower fan blowing on it.

Filled my a-maze-n tube smoker only 1/2 full and laid it sideways and evened out the pellets and let it burn like that to hopefully better simulate a smoker tray.  This did seem to produce less smoke, but it also went out about 3 times and I had to re-light, and the last couple hours I just shook all the pellets down to the bottom and lit like normal so that it would stop going out as I was tired of having to relight it.

Cracked the lid of the RecTec about 1/2 to 3/4 of an in ch by wedging a pliers under the lid.  Also took my tower fan and placed it where it was blowing directly at that crack in the lid.

Smoked about 7-8 hours.  Outside temperature ranged from about 50 up all the way to 70 by the end of the cook.

Fried some up yesterday and it was awesome.  None of the nasty bitter flavor that I had the first time.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!


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## blake06

IMG_7695.JPG



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The peppered bacon half of my 10lb pork bellow sliced, and some of it fried up for bacon sandwiches.


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## daveomak

Good looking bacon....  nice job....


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## mdgirlinfl

Nice looking bacon. I'm about to take some out of pops brine, smoking on my MES.  Hoping to have great bacon soon.


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## dave17a

blake06 said:


> IMG_7695.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ blake06
> __ Dec 18, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The peppered bacon half of my 10lb pork bellow sliced, and some of it fried up for bacon sandwiches.


Good color, Meaty also. All about dry rub anymore, not to cut down Pop's brine. Still use that.


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## blake06

Bought my 3rd belly to get cured up soon.  All my other bacon is already gone.

I also bought a whole boneless pork loin for some canadian bacon.   Can I use the same dry cure that I have mixed for my canadian bacon as what I do for my belly bacon?   And is it the same cure/weight ratio or different?


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## daveomak

Yep...  Same ratios, same cure mix...  If you like it, try it...    If your mix adds about 1.1 grams per pound of cure #1 or 1 tsp. per 5#'s, it can be used for anything you want to smoke...  You can tweak it for different meats by adding spices etc. and there's no need to adjust the mix..   weigh out the proper amount of mix for each piece of meat, add the spices and you are good to go...


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## sundown farms

Dave - I like the simplicity in your response. I want to clarify for myself and others that you are talking about a dry cure; i.e. not a water emersion cure. Right?


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## wade

Yes, Dave's cure mix base is for dry cure.


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## daveomak

Sundown Farms said:


> Dave - I like the simplicity in your response. I want to clarify for myself and others that you are talking about a dry cure; i.e. not a water emersion cure. Right?


Dry cure is where you rub salts, sugars, cure and on occasion, spices etc. into the exterior of the meat...  It is usually refrigerated for about 2 weeks for the nitrite, salt etc. to be absorbed, while inhibiting bacterial growth....   Then it is usually rinsed, dried, spices re-applied, and on occasion, depending on the method and cut of meat, additional salt "maybe", additional cure "maybe"....  (in some recipes, salt, cure are applied in a 2 step process)... 

The meat can be tied / trussed and hung in a chamber / garage / basement / cave where the temperature and humidity and air flow are conducive to very slowly drying of the product..  

Temp usually around 50 def. F and humidity around 78-80% for a product that will not case harden...  That is where cure #2 plays a part...  natural bacteria in the meat break down the nitrate into nitrite to continue protecting the product..  (so they say)...    Then in a period of time, when the meat has lost a certain percentage of water, (low enough so bacteria will no longer grow and the salt that has been applied, increases in % to stop bacterial growth...  you have a shelf stable product that no longer needs refrigeration...

Let me explain how the salt % increases...   3% initial salt on a hunk of meat.... the meat loses 35% weight over a period of time...   The meat is now 65% of it's original weight...   3% salt / .65 becomes 4.6% salt, if I did that calculation correctly...  if not, correct me please..

Someone, other than bloggers, has figured out the appropriate numbers and recipes for all this to be safe...  

Anyhow, that's my understanding of a dry cure...  could be called other names in other places...

Now a "dry brine/cure" is a name associated with curing meats in a zip bag, in a refrigerator, we have used on this forum....   apply the salt, sugar, cure and spices to a hunk of meat...  place in a zip bag, in the refer for a few weeks...   as the meat weeps moisture, it is captured by the bag and no chemicals are lost...  they are re-adsorbed / absorbed into the meat to insure a safe curing cycle...  or something like that...  The meat, effectively, is being cured in it's own brine...

OK....   This nitrate being converted to nitrite reaction...  It has been documented, somehow, in the last couple hundred years, that the reaction of naturally occurring nitrates in "SOME" salt deposits is responsible for the death of "botulism" is meats that were salted and hung up to dry.... (when folks in Europe were practicing this art of charcuterie)..  Somehow, folks figured out that "maybe" a naturally bacteria in the meat was responsible for this reaction of nitrates to nitrites since nitrates has no effect on bacteria....  

I have no idea how they figured out that chain of events....  How they determined a bacteria was responsible for the chemical reaction...  but anyway, since that crap was figured out, nitrites has been put into meats and botulism, seemingly, has a preventive medicine...

Now, for the nay-sayers out there, bring proof that the above supposition is in error, other than just saying.....   "It ain't so"..... or there's no proof...

*Nitrite* and *Meat* Curing - Iowa State University

Nitrate (NO3-)

•Insignificant by itself

•Contributes cured meat properties only after reduction to nitrite

•Reduction is not easily done by chemical means in meat systems; typically requiring a bacterial culture with nitrate reductase activity

•May be important in dried products (hard salami, hams, etc.)


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## daveomak

Sundown Farms said:


> Dave - I like the simplicity in your response. I want to clarify for myself and others that you are talking about a dry cure; i.e. not a water emersion cure. Right?


The cure mix...   1.1 grams per pound, 2% salt and 1% sugar...   That is appropriate for dry rub/cure...   dry brine/cure of even a  wet brine/cure mixture...    The wet brine/cure, where you mix up a quart of water or so, is typically a "equilibrium" brine/cure...    Typically you would use 1/4 to 1/2 the weight of the meat for the liquid....   weigh the meat and the liquid...  add the appropriate amount of cure, salt and sugar based on that total weight..   refrigerate for at least 7 days per inch thickness...  inject with the brine solution if possible...  and in several weeks the curing brining process will be complete....  

Whenever you do an immersion brine/cure mix, it's difficult to know if everything worked it's way into the meat by osmosis or whatever... 

Therefore I recommend....   weigh the meat, weigh out what is necessary and required for that piece of meat to be safely cured...    dissolve all that stuff into a liquid carrier like water or soup stock....    Inject all the liquid carrier into the meat..  especially around the bones and at 1.5" intervals throughout the meat....   refrigerate for 5-6 days and smoke...  

You know for certain everything you wanted to put in the meat is INSIDE the meat..  no osmosis, no guessing...


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## wade

Hi Dave. I am not sure that I fully understood your distinction between "Dry Cure" and "Dry Brine". Were you making a distinction between the salt/cure/spice mix itself before it gets added to the meat and what it becomes once it has come into contact once in contact with the water in the meat? Or was it the processes of "Dry Curing" and "Dry Brining"?

The actual processes of "dry curing" and "dry brining" are pretty much synonymous though, and as you infer, they may be called different things by different people. They both refer to the adding of dry salt/cure/spices to a piece of meat and allowing the natural moisture in the meat to dissolve the salts allowing them to diffuse inwards. Dry "Curing" is often used when Nitrate/Nitrite is included in the cure - but this is not always the case - and Dry "Brining" is often used when only salt is used without Nitrite/Nitrate - again this is also not always the case.

Based upon your definitions above are you saying that probably one of the most widely produced "Dry Cured" product around today (Dry Cure Bacon), should really be called "Dry Brined" bacon?

That PowerPoint slide set is interesting and has a lot of useful background information. I think we have highlighted it before - or maybe it was something similar. It appears to be a set of Tutor (or maybe Students) notes from someone at the Iowa State University. Do we know who pulled the slide set together as (unless I missed it) there does not seem to be any author mentioned.


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## daveomak

*Nitrite* and *Meat* Curing - Iowa State University

Probably a standard lecture paper for a class....  so everyone gets the same info...

Folks used to call dry rub curing with cure #1, "Dry Curing"  to differentiate between dry curing /brining/dry aging or what ever, when the meat was put into a bag to cure for the duration, and live in it's own juices, dry brining/curing was tagged...   (brine from the meat itself being the key word)

Not to be confused with dry curing...

_Dry cure is where you rub salts, sugars, cure and on occasion, spices etc. into the exterior of the meat...  It is usually refrigerated for about 2 weeks for the nitrite, salt etc. to be absorbed, while inhibiting bacterial growth....   Then it is usually rinsed, dried, spices re-applied, and on occasion, depending on the method and cut of meat, additional salt "maybe", additional cure "maybe"....  (in some recipes, salt, cure are applied in a 2 step process)... _

_The meat can be tied / trussed and hung in a chamber / garage / basement / cave where the temperature and humidity and air flow are conducive to very slowly drying of the product..  _

_Temp usually around 50 def. F and humidity around 78-80% for a product that will not case harden...  That is where cure #2 plays a part...  natural bacteria in the meat break down the nitrate into nitrite to continue protecting the product..  (so they say)...    Then in a period of time, when the meat has lost a certain percentage of water, (low enough so bacteria will no longer grow and the salt that has been applied, increases in % to stop bacterial growth...  you have a shelf stable product that no longer needs refrigeration..._

_Edited to try and satisfy Wade...  I apologize Wade....  I will try and do better..._


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## wade

I think we may be into the gray area of the different uses of these terms here. The definition that you have used may be one of the definitions used by some, but it is certainly not the universal definition. Above you have also added the term "Dry aging" which is a term more commonly used for the tenderisation of meats like beef - that usually does not include the use of any salt at all. Trying to come up with a single definitive definition of these so-similar terms (which are used in slightly different ways by different people) is probably not going to be an easy quest and will almost certainly involve a lot of subjective "hair splitting".


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## daveomak

Hey Wade, Morning.....   Maybe you might post about how you define the terms...  

I think I put enough thought into the discussion that folks get the idea...       Maybe some of the translation gets lost crossing the pond...   You may have different ideas about some words in Great Britain than we do in the United States..  Maybe that's where the confusion begins.... 

Anyway, you are back, again, criticizing me and my posts, as usual....

If anyone on this forum thinks I should discontinue posting, because  I do not use terms, definitions, the proper wording...etc..   

Please post that I should quit...


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## wade

Hi Dave. I am not criticizing you, just bringing some balance to some of the "definitive" black-and-white opinions that you sometimes post. As I said in my post I think most people use the terms Dry Curing and Dry Brining interchangeably - with little distinction being made between them. To some "curing" is using Nitrate/Nitrite with salt and "brining" is just using salt alone. You do not have to look far on any of the culinary/curing/preserving sites though to find either term used in both situations. Some may also be using the definitions that you are proposing. This is certainly not a USA/UK language/culture difference.

I would have discussed this with you in PM but I think you have me on ignore so that was not possible. If you just look back at our discussions in previous threads you will see that I have always made very positive responses to you when you have have made informative/useful posts (which is most of the time) however when you try to make "definitive" statements that are not necessarily as definitive as you portray then you should expect to have them challenged. As I detect a certain amount of paranoia from your last post I will leave it there. Happy to continue this discussion in PM


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