# Can't get ribs right, what am I doing wrong.



## anico1613 (Oct 27, 2014)

I have done ribs 4 times. Each time I did the 321 method. 3 times I did spares and this last time I did loin backs. For some reason every time I take them off they are tough. I thought with adding cold liquid and bbq sauce that they maybe weren't getting done so this time I warmed both up a bit, but it didn't matter. I went an extra hour this time so 322 and that still didn't matter. They seem tough and a little dry. I cut them in half racks so the bend test doesn't work the best but even when I try it or pull two adjacent bones apart they barely split and are very tough. I tried probing a rib and it seemed to glide in effortlessly and it was around 165, though it was hard to get an accurate temp. I know they are supposed to be around 180 -190 so do I really have to go even longer? Seems like they will be completely dry.


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## d-train (Oct 27, 2014)

What kinda cooker are you using and what temp?


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## b-one (Oct 27, 2014)

What temp are you cooking at? Where are you getting your temp reading from? Most built in therms are off up to 50* from grate temp. You may get some good advice if you can mention what model smoker you have and your setup as well. How are you prepping the ribs could be useful as well. I never foiled and cook around 225/240* and haven't had issues.


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## anico1613 (Oct 27, 2014)

Cooking at 225, checked the probes and they are accurate. 18.5 wsm cooker. I had one half rack come off at the 3-2 mark that was falling off the bone so that one was actually overcooked but was really tasty. But all the others I put back on and sauced up. I normally prep by removing the membrane, adding some rub and throwing them on when the smoker is at 225. One thing I could think is maybe I overpacked the smoker, though the last time I only had 2 racks on so I don't think so.


Here are the most recent loin backs

















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## anico1613 (Oct 27, 2014)

I do foil pretty heavy at the 2 part but I wouldn't think that would make that huge of a difference either.


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## anico1613 (Oct 27, 2014)

Spares












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## anico1613 (Oct 27, 2014)

Also spares, these were probably the best ones.








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## b-one (Oct 27, 2014)

They look tasty nice smoke ring,so that's good. I can't really tell how the meats pulling up from the bones from the photos. Do you use water in your water pan? I don't think your overloaded,I gave the same cooker, I guess you cut the slabs in half to cook them.


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## anico1613 (Oct 27, 2014)

Yea I cut them in half to fit them in the racks otherwise they were out of control. I do use water in the pan, yes. How far should they pull away from the bones? The top and bottom of the bones where you hold I am assuming right?


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## foamheart (Oct 27, 2014)

80% of the time the biggest problem is patience. Relax feel the zen, achieve that perfect chi, have another cold beer instead of running and checking the meat. The best smokes I have are when I just least care. When its important like a family gathering, that when I screw up. BUt then again I never get complaints.

Remember you are always your biggest critique. You picture in your mind what they SHOULD look like and smell and taste like and it only happens like that when you just don't care. If you can nail it exactly how you want it everytime, you need to put wheels under that smoker and hit the circuit!

15% preparation, 5% dumb luck, and 80% patience.

If 3,2,1, is tuff try 3. 2.5.1. If still tuff go to 2.5 3, 1. That last one is just to allow for saucing and to firm up the meat after steaming for tender in the second part. I have always found that the meat is good to eat after the steam mode, then I throw in to dry a little.

I usually just leave 'em on the grate without foiling. If you regulate temps, its less work and I kind of like 'em better that way.

BTW your ribs look fine, if you think they are dry look at your foiling sauce/foiling time. Each pit is different, the formula works but you have to refine it for the pit's temperment and the outside temperature.


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## tbrtt1 (Oct 27, 2014)

If you are getting 165 IT then those weren't done enough most likely. Looks to me in most of the pics that they could stay on a bit longer, but just MHO and based on pics you have. You said the rack that fell apart was "overcooked" but real tasty. All this points to not being cooked long enough.  Should be enough fat on spares and SLC that drying out won't be a problem. Even with BB I never seem to dry them out. 

Overall what I aim for is fat rendering. I don't foil typically and don't touch them til at least 4 hours in and the I just check for fat rendering. I like them rendered real nice, just before they fall off the bone. 

All said, your ribs look nice. Could be little darker which would come from longer cook time and would give you a little bark. Yumm! May cook me closer to 240 smoker temp. 

* there are many folk more smarter in ways of Q than me, however.


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## noboundaries (Oct 27, 2014)

What Master Foamheart said 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   I too have a WSM.  I throw my SLC spares in a 235F smoker, sometimes a dry smoke (because I usually forget to add the water), sometimes wet.  I smoke SLC ribs at 235F and never foil unless I want them fall-off-the-bone for my wife and kids.  Don't even look at them for three hours.  A quick spirtz, and I mean quick, then leave them alone for 90 minutes, then another quick spritz.  I do a quick visual check at this point, 4.5 hours, to check color and look at the draw.  By this point you'll see a little draw up on the bones.  I usually do a bend test at 5.5 hours and check the draw to get an idea when they'll be done, then figure my 30 minute sauce point.  3.5 to 4 lb SLC racks are almost always done between 6 and 6.5 hours.  If the temp spikes when I'm saucing I don't worry about it. 

My wife and one of our daughters considers a "competition bite" tough and dry.  I think they are perfect and juicy, as does my other daughter.  When I make my wife and the one daughter FOTB ribs by 3.5-1.5-1 they think they are perfect and I think they are overcooked and mushy.  I usually wrap them with a half cup of apple cider. 

I smoke to the crowd.

BTW, when I used my gas grill to BBQ ribs it probably took me 30 tries to get them perfect.  Took only a few tries when I started smoking because the knowledge transferred nicely.  You'll get that perfect rack soon enough.  Then you'll get a new idea and you're off to the races again.


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## addertooth (Oct 28, 2014)

Anico,

Considering finding another person in your area who makes good ribs.


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## 5oclocksomewher (Oct 28, 2014)

anico1613 said:


> I do foil pretty heavy at the 2 part but I wouldn't think that would make that huge of a difference either.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I use to foil but found I prefer the texture of my ribs without the foil step.  I can tell you from the pics you posted it looks like you could use some moisture on those ribs.  When you foil, are you putting any liquid in the foil and on ribs before you wrap them up?  If not try to add something like squeeze butter and brown sugar, or some bbq sauce cut down with apple juice, or you can check out Chef JimmyJ's foiling juice.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110881/foiling-juice-chef-jimmyj

If you add liquid in the foil your ribs will steam and you should not have dry ribs.  As I said earlier, I don't foil but I do spritz my ribs every hour.  Here's my last BB smoke.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/170928/baby-back-ribs-and-dutchs-wicked-beans

Hope this helps.  Good Luck!!!


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## anico1613 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the help. I will try some of these methods. I do add liquid to the foil but it may be running out as it's hard to wrap the ribs without getting holes In the foil. I have some ideas now, I will report back with the result next time I do ribs.


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## ak1 (Oct 29, 2014)

Try giving them an extra half hour. Ican't quite put my finger on it, but something looks "off" in those pics.

I could be wrong, but it looks like they are not quite cooked enough.


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## jbills5 (Oct 30, 2014)

anico1613 said:


> Thanks everyone for the help. I will try some of these methods. I do add liquid to the foil but it may be running out as it's hard to wrap the ribs without getting holes In the foil. I have some ideas now, I will report back with the result next time I do ribs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Get heavy duty foil and the tears won't be a problem.  Also, if you get a tear, you can double wrap.  Also, use the bend test and toothpick test to check for to see if they are done.  When bending, they should bend pretty much 90 degrees and the bark on the meat will crack. When using a toothpick, the toothpick should penetrate the meat easily.


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## tbrtt1 (Oct 30, 2014)

AK1 said:


> Try giving them an extra half hour. Ican't quite put my finger on it, but something looks "off" in those pics.
> 
> I could be wrong, but it looks like they are not quite cooked enough.



Looks that way to me as well. Could be on the smoker a bit longer. I think you would get the added benefit of a little more bark as well.


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## superdave (Nov 4, 2014)

The color looks off and not like anything I foil.  They should be much darker.  And much like the bend test, having the meat shrink up the bone is another good indicator.  The pictures tend to show meat still tight to the ends of the bone.  Once you foil, feel free to crank the heat up a bit, 250.  The foil phase is mostly about producing some steam.


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## jirodriguez (Nov 5, 2014)

No foil and keep the temps down around 250° in your chamber. Use a little bit of brown sugar in the rub and let the ribs sit on the counter for about 15-20 minutes - the sugar will melt and make a nice coating. Put the ribs in your WSM and leave them alone for at least 4 hrs. - starting at the 4 hr. mark you can check them for the bend test, if not ready put lid on and wait another hour. Once they pass the bend test wrap in double layer of heavy foil and let them rest for at least 30 minutes - usually while you work on other stuff for the feast!

They will bite cleanly from the bone and be nice and moist!













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No puppies were harmed in the making of this dinner!













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__ jirodriguez
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## oldschoolbbq (Nov 6, 2014)

Patience, my man. Patience. I do Ribs , well , the 'Oldschool' way.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






As Kevin says, leave things alone and let them cook.

I know I will have them in for appox. 6 hrs.(Spares) and at hr. 5 or 5.5 ,I'll do a bend and poke test , then  if ready to my specs. ...eat:













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Explain your technique , I feel you look too much , just MHO.


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## gitaryzt1985 (Nov 6, 2014)

I'd eat 'em anico1613!!! haha

How often do you open the lid to check on them?  I've smoked ribs a grand total of 4 times and have similar results as you.  The flavor is spot on, and I've been able to nail down that aspect in just a few tries.  The second time I smoked, I ran out of wood and had to have my wife watch the smoker while I ran to the store.  In all, they probably went about 2 hours before I even lifted the lid.  Best bark I'd had.  I try to open the lid every 30 minutes to spritz with Jack and Apple juice, but that is probably too often!

My thought on this is to let them go without lifting the lid so much...probably need to cook longer since the heat escapes.  Something I struggle with since I'm a newbie!


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## noboundaries (Nov 6, 2014)

Trying to work the smoker by looking constantly at the meat reminds me when I was a Navy flight instructor.  The students who tried to fly the jet when cruising straight and level were all over the sky.  I'd  tell them "Relax!  Trim it so it flies itself. Monitor the instruments and make minute adjustment's on the stick with pressure from your fingertips.  You only have to fly the plane when yanking, banking, shooting, bombing, skimming treetops, or landing on the carrier.  We ain't doing any of that right now so STOP FLYING THE AIRPLANE CAUSE YOUR MAKING ME SICK BACK HERE!!!

Set the smoker to cruise and trust it will do its magic.


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## foamheart (Nov 6, 2014)

Noboundaries said:


> Trying to work the smoker by looking constantly at the meat reminds me when I was a Navy flight instructor. The students who tried to fly the jet when cruising straight and level were all over the sky. I'd tell them "Relax! Trim it so it flies itself. Monitor the instruments and make minute adjustment's on the stick with pressure from your fingertips. You only have to fly the plane when yanking, banking, shooting, bombing, skimming treetops, or landing on the carrier. We ain't doing any of that right now so STOP FLYING THE AIRPLANE CAUSE YOUR MAKING ME SICK BACK HERE!!!
> 
> Set the smoker to cruise and trust it will do its magic.


So funny, so true...... A slight smack to the back of the head works wonders.


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## ak1 (Nov 7, 2014)

anico1613 said:


> I have done ribs 4 times. Each time I did the 321 method. 3 times I did spares and this last time I did loin backs. For some reason every time I take them off they are tough. I thought with adding cold liquid and bbq sauce that they maybe weren't getting done so this time I warmed both up a bit, but it didn't matter. I went an extra hour this time so 322 and that still didn't matter. They seem tough and a little dry. I cut them in half racks so the bend test doesn't work the best but even when I try it or pull two adjacent bones apart they barely split and are very tough. I tried probing a rib and it seemed to glide in effortlessly and it was around 165, though it was hard to get an accurate temp. I know they are supposed to be around 180 -190 so do I really have to go even longer? Seems like they will be completely dry.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm going back to your original post for a reason. Bear with me.

I've been doing ribs for 30 yrs, and to this day I still screw 'em up sometimes.

Ribs is meat. Sometimes you have more meat than fat. Sometimes you have more fat than meat. Sometimes it's warmer, sometimes it's colder, sometimes it's windier than other times.

I have a good idea that gets me good ribs on my UD, it's different to what can get me good ribs on my gasser. Then too, what you may think is tough, I may think is OK...

Without actually being there and seeing the ribs...and tasting... all I can say is keep making them, keep trying, at some point you will figure out what works with your cooker at your location...with your taste.


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## anico1613 (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies everyone. 

To answer a couple of questions. I actually never look at the meat on the smoker unless I have to remove it. I normally do the 321 method and remove it after 3 hours then 2 hours then 1 hour, that's it other than when I think it's done.

So I will be doing ribs again this weekend for 6 people. I am going with extra meaty loin back 2.5 lbs - 3 lbs each. I usually use a rib rack but I have a feeling the way I am packing them is over packing the meat and the way I am foiling may be leaking a lot, if not all the liquid out. I am going to try 4 racks, 2 on top 2 on bottom with the 321 method and no rib rack, just flat full rack right on the grate. I will wrap to ensure they don't leak at the 3 hour mark, and use the bend test to tell when they are done. I am not going to sauce them at all as they are lately sitting on the smoker for a couple hours with sauce on them as I don't know exactly when they are done so that toughens them a bit more. I will report back the results on Sunday and provide pics of course!


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## sqwib (Nov 8, 2014)

Anico. Try rotating your racks every hour. No liquid needed for the foiling stage. Pullback is more prominent when foiling. Foiling does change the texture. 3-2-1 is OK for trimmed spares at 225-235. For untrimmed 3-2-1 at 250.
Everything you are doing seems spot on.
As you are doing some this weekend I just wanted to give you that bit of advice.
However I would like to give this post the attention it deserves but will not have access to my notes till Monday.


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## anico1613 (Nov 10, 2014)

Ribs turned out great Sunday! I put 4 whole loin backs on the wsm and did 3-2 and took them off as they passed the bend test. For the 2 I made sure there was plenty of liquid and that they were foiled so they didn't leak. The bend test worked really well with the whole rack as it was really easy to tell when they were done, this didn't work nearly as well with the half racks I used previously. I also put my temp probe in the middle of the rack rather than by the edges so I may have been running it more accurately at 225-240 and I could tell a rack or two still could have stayed on a little longer, but all were still very good. I may try no foil next time to see the difference but the whole family was over this time so I wanted a foolproof method that I know would produce tender ribs as that is what they like.

All served unsauced with sauce on the side if needed












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## jirodriguez (Nov 10, 2014)

Nice - if you have a gas grill a great way to finish them off (especially if you foil them) is to put just a little bit of sauce on them and then toss them on the grill on high heat. Just about 2-3 minutes per side, just enough to caramelize the sauce and put a little bit of char on them.


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## 5oclocksomewher (Nov 11, 2014)

Great Job!!! Congrats on a successful smoke!!!  Thumbs Up


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## ak1 (Nov 11, 2014)

Glad you like them.


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## b-one (Nov 11, 2014)

Sauce isn't needed it's liked by some! I usally like it on the side.  I'm glad you had better results, congrats. Practice makes perfect so keep up the great work.


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