# First ribs, a bit dry and tough



## jlafrenz (Jul 29, 2012)

So I tried my first rack of BB ribs today. I used the 2-2-1 method that comes highly recommended from here. They turned out OK, but not great. I know I didn't do everything perfect so I am hoping the experts can help me fine tune my technique. I have a UDS and used Royal Oak lump charcoal lit with 10 briquettes. My goal was to keep the temp between 225-240, but it easily was headed toward the 260 range. It did vary a lot today, not sure why. My higher heat was my first mistake. I did foil the ribs with 1/4 cup of juice after the first 2 hours and let it cook for 2 hours. Again, temps were a bit warmer than I would have liked. Next was the final hour and the smoker was around the 240 mark. I never did any moping or basting other than the juice at the 2 hour mark for foiling. I should let you know that one end of the ribs was actually pretty good. It was the fattier end. So which  contributed to my dry ribs the most, too high heat, not moping, not enough marbling in the meat? What other tips can you guys give me?


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## whistlepig (Jul 29, 2012)

One tip that Chef JJ gave was to foil with the meat side down. I always foiled meat side up until my last try. Meat side down made for more moisture in my ribs. Water in the pan helps for me. My smoker holds 225 degrees pretty steady. I wouldn't know about the higher heat.


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## exromenyer (Jul 29, 2012)

I did a 1/2 rack of ribs ghis weekend as well.  As you can see I have the old style smoker with the side fire box.  My temperatures almost always stay around the 230 - 250.  I'd like to have the temp stay around the 225 but in this kind of smoker it is challenging however, I produce mouth watering BBQ without fail.  Unless the cut of meat is large I do not use any foil method.  Remember foil will NOT usually give you a hard bark....Again, personal preference.  Every 45 minutes to 1 hour I spray the meat with a mixture of oil and apple cider vinegar.  I also keep a soup can filled with water on the opposite end of the smoker to give some condensation in there.  I recommend NOT mopping until you have about 30-45 minutes left in the smoke.  Most of the sauces we use are sugar based and can burn it....also some meats just don't need it....  Another thing to really be cognizant of is the cut of meat..  Where are you getting it from, does it have good marbling etc... I've almost stopped buying meat at the local grocery and soley go to local butcher.....

Good luck with your next smoke....it is a labor of love and always take your time......

Tony


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## ellymae (Jul 29, 2012)

5 hours for BBs seems a little long to me.

Just remember... BBQ is done when it's done - you can't cook it by time.

When did you rub them?

What kind of rub did you use?


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## jlafrenz (Jul 29, 2012)

whistlepig said:


> One tip that Chef JJ gave was to foil with the meat side down. I always foiled meat side up until my last try. Meat side down made for more moisture in my ribs. Water in the pan helps for me. My smoker holds 225 degrees pretty steady. I wouldn't know about the higher heat.


I had read about putting the meat side down, but was hesitant because I thought it might wash off the rub. Same reason that I didn't mop them. The last time I used my smoker it was holding steady in the 225-240 range I was looking for. Today it had some more spikes and didn't want to drop in temp for me.


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## JckDanls 07 (Jul 29, 2012)

myself...   I've found that the last hour is just to long...  It tends to dry them out to much... I just go about 30 minutes on the last hour deal... and then sometimes 30 minutes is to long...  I just go long enough to dry the rub and thicken any sauce If I even use sauce...  So I'm suspecting that's where your dryness comes from... As for the toughness...  I would have to look at the quality of the meat... just my thoughts


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## jlafrenz (Jul 29, 2012)

I used a rub I made myself and let it sit on the ribs for around 12 hours.

I was also hesitant to lift the lid and mop or spray every hour because of the heat spikes with the UDS.


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## walterwhite (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm not familiar with typical drum smokers. Does it have something between the coals and the meat? If not, it may be putting more heat on the ribs than you expected. Was the meat pulling back on the bones when you foiled? I'll speculate they might have been on the fire a little too long.

I use a WSM which has a water bowl between meat and fire which eliminates any radiant heat. At temps you describe I'd expect ribs in the WSM to be done in 4-5 hours (w/out foiling, that is.) With additional radiant heat from the fire, they would go quicker.

As others have said, meat is done when it's done. That may not be on your schedule. You can learn to determine doneness by a couple signs. One is by how far the meat pulls back on the bones. I like mine about 1/2" but I think others prefer just a bit more done. Another test is to pick the rack up in the middle with tongs. When they bend significantly and even start to break apart while doing that, they are done. But I have to admit I don't know how these tests are affected by foiling ribs. Of course there's no reason you can't slice off a rib to sample to see how it tastes.

Good luck with your next batch!


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## jlafrenz (Jul 29, 2012)

There is nothing between the fire and the meat. I took the temperate directly from the grate using the Maverick 732. I figured that heat was heat, but I could be wrong as I am still new to this hobby.

The meat did pull back from the bone like you stated. That would be a good indicator. I do have 2 more racks so I can try a couple of things with them. The first would be to see if I can keep the temps lower and go for the same time. The next step would be to watch the amount of time they are in the smoker. This should give me a better idea of how they work best on my UDS. Practicing is half the fun.


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## walterwhite (Jul 29, 2012)

Heat can transfer three ways:

Convection - this is where some fluid (air, products of combustion) absorbs heat from something hot (coals) and carries it to something not as hot (meat.)
Conduction - heat moves through a solid. This is how heat gets to the inside of a piece of meat. When you drop cold meat into a hot cast iron pan, conduction is the primary mechanism for heat transfer. Put a lid on the pan to trap hot air and you add convection as well.
Radiation - heat waves travel through a transparent medium and warm whatever they illuminate. This is how the sun's heat gets to us. When you feel the heat from the coals on your skin from a couple feet away, that's radiation.
Spoken another way... Hold your hand above a fire and you will feel convection (and some radiation.) Hold your hand next to (not above) a fire and you will feel radiation. Pick up a hot coal and you will feel conduction. (Note, this is a thought experiment. I suggest not actually picking up a lit coal!)

Radiation is line of sight. If the meat is 'in view' of the fire, you will get additional heat to the meat beyond what you would get from just the hot gasses. Your thermometer should measure both but it might not accurately reflect the heat transfer you would get with the hot gasses alone. You can reduce the effect of the radiation by moving the meat further away from the coals. On a Weber kettle, all that is needed is to move the coals to the side and that will entirely change the characteristics of the cooker. If I were using a drum smoker, I'd fashion some kind of heat deflector like a pizza pan that I could use between the fire and meat to reduce the radiation heat transfer. Another alternative would be a water pan of some sort that would provide additional temperature control.


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## dewetha (Jul 30, 2012)

trust your instincts. the 2-2-1 etc are just guide lines and not exact science. I try to get 225 but if that day to the smoker wants to run at 250 then it's fine. the meat will just cook quicker and be tasty. you need to adjust times. just keep a log of each run. outside temp,smoker in the sun,running temp, cook times etc etc. after a while you will know what to do.

if your running hot start thinking they might be done more like 3 hrs. smoke for 2 and foil for one. see how they are. when i was foiling i found that 90 mins in the foil was more than enough to get some additional flavor and still have some firmness to the meat.

there are several way to learn when ribs are done. get comfortable with one and use it. you can use the bend test, pull bones tests, toothpick test etc. these are all "feel" methods. keep at it and develop this skill. i have made 6 to 9 racks at a time. the ribs can be done 30 min apart. it's not just 2-2-2 for every rack. 

each and every smoker has it's little quirks. you will have to learn to deal with the spikes. if the spike are short and not to high it's not going to be that big of a deal.

I'm as guilty as anyone of getting too technical. it's not rocket science. a few mins under a different temp isn't going to matter.


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## jarjarchef (Jul 30, 2012)

You have been given a lot of info here. I have never used a UDS smoker, but I would think having a baffle like a pizza pan or a cake pan if you wanted to make a water pan would help with the heat control. 

I am assuming you removed the membrane from the back of the ribs. I only mention it because my grand uncle, who is my wife's family's official family reunion smoker. Did not know about the membrane removal. We removed it and he was told they were the most tender ever. Just a thought......

As for the moisture. Make sure you have good marbling in the meat. Most people when they go to the store look for little or no fat. I usually look for more fat. I do not have a meat market good enough that makes it worth the gas and drive, so I use a couple local stores and picking can be slim. When I mop/spray I do not have any or much sugar type products in it to prevent burning. 

Just like many things in cooking the 2-2-1 is a guide. Smoking is about feel. Sometimes you will have a very hot fire and times you will have a cold fire, the meat will be tough or it is tender. There are way to many variables that can effect your cook. Just relax and make the needed adjustments that are required. The more you cook the easier and more natural the adjustments will come.


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## smokinhusker (Jul 30, 2012)

I've yet to do BB but do spares all the time. I foil meat side down - your rub is already set from the first 2 hour cook. Even for them the last hour is too long, at least for our taste, so it's usually only about 30 minutes to set the sauce and I do this on a hot grill.


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## hyyal (Aug 3, 2012)

I am unfamiliar with your smoker, I use a horizontal. I have whipped up some fine BBs using the 221 method on the old girl!  All the advice here is dead on.

I use a waterpan. I like the moisture from the steam and I think it helps to keep things from getting dry.  The waterpan is on the lower rack of the smoker and I can move it closer to or further from the heat.  Keeping a journal of my smokes (just like dewetha said!) and getting a good feel for what my smoker does, really helps determine where I put the pan.  I call it a heat-brake.  If she's running a little hot, I move the brake closer....too cool, I move it further away. Same concept as using baffles (pizza pan) I just like the steam.

When I foil, I don't put anything in the foil with the ribs, they'll create their own juices and steam.  When I unfoil, I save the juices in the foil for beans or for an addition to finishing sauce for PP. 

I break the last hour up like this - 1/2 hour to re-firm the bark, 1/2 to sauce and let the sauce carmelize.  I've attached a pic of some spares I did on 7/4.  You can see the moisture!!  Meat had pull, but came off the bone nicely, bark was great and the sauce was dead-on (3rd Helpin' Q-Sauce)

I've also attached a pic of some BBs that are being un-foiled.  A friend of mine was taking the pics and actually caught the steam!

This site and all the people on it will give you great advice on any question you have.  These folks are awesome!  Try out any of the advice and post some pics of the next experiment.













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7/4 spares













pic 3 photgrapher caught the steam.JPG



__ hyyal
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Steamy!

In this pic, you can see the juice in the foil.


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## chef jimmyj (Aug 3, 2012)

I suspect your dry rib issue was just the smoker running hot. 3-2-1 and 2-2-1 work best in the 225-240*F range. If running hot time goes faster and as many have said the Last hour will be greatly reduced if running hot...A lot of the numbered " Rules " are more guidelines. They will get you started then you tweak to match your desired result. I don't recall ever making a Bad Rib but over time they have gotten a lot better and come out pretty great now...Hang in there, you have a smoker that can be a challenge and lots to learn. But you are off to a great start, you are Here at SMF...JJ

BTW: You may find this Recipe to your liking... http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110881/foiling-juice-chef-jimmyj


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## jlafrenz (Aug 3, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips guys. I am going to start off with going meat down during the foil and trying to control the temps a bit more closely. Depending on how they come out I may tweak a couple more things until I get them to my liking. I will just have to keep track of how they turn out and what kind of temps I am getting during the day with full sun. Some shade will help out too.


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## daveomak (Aug 3, 2012)

Walter, evening and excellent point.... infra red heat is not measured too well by a SS probe therm....  A heat baffle is a great idea...  Dave


WalterWhite said:


> Heat can transfer three ways:
> 
> Convection - this is where some fluid (air, products of combustion) absorbs heat from something hot (coals) and carries it to something not as hot (meat.)
> Conduction - heat moves through a solid. This is how heat gets to the inside of a piece of meat. When you drop cold meat into a hot cast iron pan, conduction is the primary mechanism for heat transfer. Put a lid on the pan to trap hot air and you add convection as well.
> ...


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