# First smoke in MES 30 with AMNPS, ended up with charred black pellets... Why?



## tastedulnudes (Aug 6, 2017)

I read all the threads and info, and did everything required for air flow. Also used no water.

Everything was perfect at first. But then it seemed like I was getting too much white smoke for a while.

I just checked on things because I wasn't seeing much smoke, and the first row burned as expected. This row was closest to the heating element. But the other two rows were black and clearly only partially combusted.

What causes this? Did they get too hot from the element, and burn part way, but enough to prevent the cherry from continuing on through them?

Also, once I removed it, ten minutes later the pellets on the exterior of each row that was touching metal had kept slowly burning and turned white.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## redoctobyr (Aug 6, 2017)

What model smoker? I just got the 20070910, with an AMNPS, and am using Lumber Jack MHC pellets. My water pan is dry, and I have a foil shield over the AMNPS, so nothing drips on it. The pellet tray was to the left of the heater element, since it's a Gen1 unit. I leave the top vent open fully.

The first time I used it, I had just opened the bag of pellets. I left the chip loader tube pushed in fully. The pellets burned slowly, and went out about halfway into the second row. As I recall, a bunch of the leftovers were black, not white ash.

The second time I used it, I had dried the pellets. I had put a reusable desiccant pack in a sealed container with a few pounds of pellets. The dried pellets lit more easily. And I pullet the chip loader tube out a little bit, to let more air flow between the tube and the opening in the smoker's wall. That gave me more airflow. With those two changes, it burned a full 10 hours, through all 3 rows, leaving white ashes.

Admittedly, the airflow may have been the only change that mattered. But drying the pellets seems worth doing. A lot of people seem to microwave their pellets to dry them. I got thin blue smoke during both uses. Someone suggested removing my chip tray entirely for more airflow, since I'm not using it. But I'm happy with the results at the moment, with the tray still installed.


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## tastedulnudes (Aug 6, 2017)

Mine is also the 20070910.

 We bought a 40 pound bag of pellets online, but can't remember the type to save my life right now. Doesn't matter though, because we used the Amazn pellets that came with the a AMNPS. I also microwaved the pellets. 

I assumed I had a later generation smoker since I just got it, but since the AMNPS did go to the left of the element and the model number is the same, apparently mine is gen 1 also.  Is one generation considered best?

I had the top vent open, the chip tray pulled out just over an inch, and the loader about a quarter out. I feel I did as instructed, so I'm not sure what the issue is.


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## GaryHibbert (Aug 6, 2017)

TastedulNudes said:


> Mine is also the 20070910.
> 
> We bought a 40 pound bag of pellets online, but can't remember the type to save my life right now. Doesn't matter though, because we used the Amazn pellets that came with the a AMNPS. I also microwaved the pellets.
> 
> ...



I'm probably just a tad unpartial since my smoker is a MES 30 Gen 1, but i truly believe the gen 1 is the all time best. 

No matter what I did I could never get my AMNPS to stay lit when I placed it INSIDE the MES.  After much frustration, I finally added the Mailbox Mod to my MES.  Since that day I have had nothing but success using my AMNPS as my only source of TBS.

Gary


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## tastedulnudes (Aug 6, 2017)

GaryHibbert said:


> I'm probably just a tad unpartial since my smoker is a MES 30 Gen 1, but i truly believe the gen 1 is the all time best.
> 
> No matter what I did I could never get my AMNPS to stay lit when I placed it INSIDE the MES.  After much frustration, I finally added the Mailbox Mod to my MES.  Since that day I have had nothing but success using my AMNPS as my only source of TBS.
> 
> Gary



For whatever reason I didn't see much reference to the different generations until after I made the purchase. But from the reading I'm doing it looks like the AMNPS was made for the Gen 1  and doesn't work as well and done in future revisions? I can get my pellets lit and will stay burning no problem. They just didn't seem to be burning quite like they should. I suspect it has something to do with proximity to the heating element but I'm not sure. I know the mailbox mod is a possibility but I'd like to avoid it if it's not absolutely necessary as more work is just that, more work.


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## GaryHibbert (Aug 6, 2017)

You're right.  Todd specifically designed the AMNPS to fit the gen 1 since so many owners weren't happy with using the chip tray.

Gary


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## tastedulnudes (Aug 6, 2017)

GaryHibbert said:


> You're right.  Todd specifically designed the AMNPS to fit the gen 1 since so many owners weren't happy with using the chip tray.
> 
> Gary



Yeah, I'm now finding threads where guys looking to get started are asking which generation to buy, and people across the board seem to recommend the first generation. Good to know I don't have buyers remorse this evening!


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## cmayna (Aug 7, 2017)

Mailbox is the only way to go.  What I really like about it is the ability to check your pellets or change flavor of the pellets without having to open the smoker.  Since over 90% of my smoking is Salmon, I start out with Alder but then change to Apple.  Just open the mailbox and change out the pellets.  No heat change in the smoker.


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## tallbm (Aug 7, 2017)

Feel free to try a few test runs.  If you have a 40 pound bag of pellets you definitely will not run out anytime soon.

I use a mailbox mod so I cannot really give a dialed in answer to why they didn't burn all the way and correctly.

My best guess is you need more airflow.

I would suggest you give a dry run with the chip loader pulled halfway out to get even more air and see if the whole thing burns.  If so that would be your next configuration.  It just takes a few runs to tweak for your situation.  Some people have more humidity or elevation, or no are in an enclosed type area which can all affect things differently.

Keep on plugging along and you will get it.  I think just about everyone figures out their quirks around the 3rd or 4th try :)


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## redoctobyr (Aug 7, 2017)

Interestingly, I ran mine again yesterday. Same basic setup as the previous use, dried pellets, chip loader tube pulled out a little, shield over the pellet tray, no water in the pan. I did have the top vent half-open for a while, as it was breezy, vs fully-open on the previous runs. 

But yesterday the pellets went out after roughly 5 hours, I'm not sure why. I think most of them were white ash, but I only looked quickly. 

Maybe I need the chip loader tube pulled out further (and maybe the chip tray also pulled), for added airflow. Or perhaps moisture from the food I was smoking re-dampened the pellets somewhat as time went on. I'm getting the parts for a mailbox mod, so I will likely do that regardless. But it would simplify things a bit if I could also expect consistent results from having the tray in the smoker. 

I'm not quite certain how the mailbox mod makes the pellets more reliable. One difference I can think of is that the pellets are no longer in with the food, so things like drips, steam from the water pan, etc, won't risk making the pellets wet. And maybe it helps ensure that fresh air is flowing across the pellets, vs in the smoker, where some air might sit in there, possibly meaning the pellets get less oxygen.


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## tallbm (Aug 7, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Interestingly, I ran mine again yesterday. Same basic setup as the previous use, dried pellets, chip loader tube pulled out a little, shield over the pellet tray, no water in the pan. I did have the top vent half-open for a while, as it was breezy, vs fully-open on the previous runs.
> 
> But yesterday the pellets went out after roughly 5 hours, I'm not sure why. I think most of them were white ash, but I only looked quickly.
> 
> ...


The mailbox mod helps because you can drill holes as you need for more air.  But really air is traveling directly over/to pellets rather than into the smoker and navigating drafts from the heat, humidity, meat drips, etc.

It will be easier but again you will need to figure out any quirks to understand what you must and must not do for it to work perfectly :)


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## dr k (Aug 7, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Interestingly, I ran mine again yesterday. Same basic setup as the previous use, dried pellets, chip loader tube pulled out a little, shield over the pellet tray, no water in the pan. I did have the top vent half-open for a while, as it was breezy, vs fully-open on the previous runs.
> 
> But yesterday the pellets went out after roughly 5 hours, I'm not sure why. I think most of them were white ash, but I only looked quickly.
> 
> ...


I think your last sentence hit the nail on the head. Since the mailbox mod puts the Amnps directly in the air intake path all the air in the smoker had to go past the Amnps, stoking it. I plugged my grease drain and foiled over the hole in the bottom drip pan because I've never generated a pool of juice in the bottom of my smoker, needing to be drained.  So all air goes throgh the mailbox. It's safer to burn pellets outside the smoker to eliminate proximity fire being close to the heating element and/or from grease and heat. 

I prefer to pipe in smoke into an electric or gas smoker because the smoker's heat source doesn't produce smoke. Since we're not using the smoker as it is intended to be used to generate smoke from the chip tray, wood chips and heating element then you dont have to cook your after market smoke generator with your food. I like the drier,  lighter,  higher quality smoke (horizontal chimney condensing  effect) when it's generated outside my electric smoker. The proof is in the window and how many hours I get before needing to clean it which is at least twice as long when using the mailbox mod. There is no right or wrong as long as you like the results. I change things up to see if I notice a difference with even heating as well and have found my permanent solution with that and the mailbox mod. 
-Kurt


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## foamheart (Aug 7, 2017)

I love my MES30, just a thought here. Everyone including myself jumps out and wants to use pellets.

First have you tryed the sawdust? It is without a doubt the most versatile smoke. It smokes in high flow, it smokes in low flow. 

I would like to suggest you do a couple of "dry" runs to get used to that smoker before trying to cook on it.

How long did you allow your tray to light before sticking it in the smoker? Did the pellets get any grease splatter on them were it was? What temp were you trying to smoke? 













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






My set up, note the grate on top of the firebox? I always preheat to a box temp of 275 for every smoke even if I am going to smoke at 189 degrees, nothing goes in till its steady at 275. It doesn't take that long.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






This is how I believe they intended the bow to be set up with the 5x8 AMP's tray.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






This is how mine is. Make sure nothing drips on the tray, I use an al. tray in mine which allows the smoke by but the dripping contained.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






Do NOT over fill the tray, more is not better. The above is about correct. Over filling cause problems with the embers jumping lines as well as getting and keeping lit.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






Light your tray after you have put your meat in and allow about approx a 30 min. start up before inserting. You meat ain't going anywhere, its just start to get to temp for the smoke to adhere.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






This one still isn't ready. make sure you have a good ember like the glow of a 20 dollar cigar self sustaining before you put it in the box. 20 to 30 mins now will save you grief for 12 to 20 hours with a butt.  Its smoking not grilling.

I close my vent when finished smoking, and I leave it that way when preheating. No sense wasting time and electricity. You are only preheat and then doing the initial temp rise with your meat. Nothing is happening for the first 80 to 90 degrees IT.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






When you are ready to add the tray, open the top vent full













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






Like you did, I kick out the loader a bit. because this is the only air inlet













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






I don't think it would keep me alive either. OK, and since putting the meat in, 30 to 45 mins. earlier you still have not reopened the door. Then you can insert both your smoker AND probe your meat.

Do not open it back up for 30 mins. the check to ensure you are drawing a draft thru the smoker by checking the exhaust vent. Always allow time with any change for the smoker to level out. Thats a min of 15 to 30 mins.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






See this, its too much smoke. reduce or regulate the exhaust vent or the suction. it will cause the pellets to smolder slower. they will last longer. I usually back the discharge vent to 1/2 open and it works great.













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__ foamheart
__ Aug 7, 2017






You'll have to practice a little to get used to it. you may even put your tray embers out once learning.

Most folks around here want to keep their vent wide open and its ok too. I have got almost 20 hours of good smoke from one tray.

Water pan, these are NOT steamer smokers (yes its a real thing) You do not need water in an electric because since you keep the goor continiously close no moisture escapes.

Remember that the meat has a sweet spot where it accepts smoke. From 90 to 150 IT approx. Everything below and above that temperature range had diminished capacity. I have heard and believe that prior to 80 the meat pours are not open, and hopefully after 150 the pores are mostly full. Don;t know the pgysics involved but seems to work well that way.

And another thing remember that there is a real thing called too much smoke which some folks balk at, to those I say you have burnt out your taste buds. LOL

And electric smoke doesn't not function like a fire burner. Fire burners need moisture, spritz, mop, sauce, water pan, etc etc..... because they have to be continuiously monitored. They have higher heat and recoup lost heat in mins. Electric's don't need moisture because you keep the door closed all the time, and when it is opened can take 10 to 15 mins to recoup lost heat. If you are smoking a brisket anticipating a 12 hour smoke, if you only open the door once and hour and spritz, even at a 10 min recoup you've gained 2 hours of cooking time. 

I hope something helps you. LOL...... I would guess the pellets might have been too high and jumped the line or the meat splattered and the grease caused a flare up.

Mailbox is not a bad idea. I have not tried one yet.


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