# Vacuum packing meat for curing



## ddrian

Hi 

Does vacuum packing make a difference in you end product when curing.

Let's say bacon, or corned beef for instance.

Is the cure deeper better faster?

DDR


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## myownidaho

I think it does make a difference but that's purely speculative. And I wouldn't shorten the time frame, I just think it provides better penetration of the cure and flavorings.


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## ddrian

MyOwnIdaho said:


> I think it does make a difference but that's purely speculative. And I wouldn't shorten the time frame, I just think it provides better penetration of the cure and flavorings.


I have tried both. The vacuum seems to have better flavor, but that is just an opinion.


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## SmokinAl

I always vac pack mine, I think you get much better penetration.

Al


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## daveomak

For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...


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## ddrian

SmokinAl said:


> I always vac pack mine, I think you get much better penetration.
> 
> Al





DaveOmak said:


> For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...





SmokinAl said:


> I always vac pack mine, I think you get much better penetration.
> 
> Al


Thanks AL, I like it. The meat seems firmer after the cure! 


DaveOmak said:


> For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...


Dave, On the rack in the open air. Is that correct?

Makes sense. Ill try it.


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## daveomak

ddrian said:


> SmokinAl said:
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> 
> 
> I always vac pack mine, I think you get much better penetration.
> 
> Al
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> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmokinAl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always vac pack mine, I think you get much better penetration.
> 
> Al
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks AL, I like it. The meat seems firmer after the cure!
> 
> 
> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dave, On the rack in the open air. Is that correct?
> 
> Makes sense. Ill try it.
Click to expand...

That's in the open air INSIDE the FRIDGE...    I didn't make that clear at all did I...


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## ddrian

Thanks Dave!


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## browneyesvictim

DaveOmak said:


> For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...


I guess Pops, and all those that wet brine cure are just... well.. "all wet".

I do agree with you in the sense that there is a benefit from letting the slabs dry out in the open air after they are rinsed off -whether you dry or wet cure


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## Bearcarver

I personally agree that Dry curing gives Bacon better flavor, but you gotta have some moisture---

Cure, Salt, and Sugar aren't going to move through meat very well without being in liquid form first.

Bear


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## dirtsailor2003

DaveOmak said:


> That's in the open air INSIDE the FRIDGE...    I didn't make that clear at all did I...



I do the same. Been kicking around the idea of trying my next bacon cure in the UMAi bag just to compare. Keeping a dedicated clear space in the fridge so the meat doesn't get contaminated seems to be an issue these days!


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## daveomak

Browneyesvictim said:


> DaveOmak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> I guess Pops, and all those that wet brine cure are just... well.. "all wet".
> 
> I do agree with you in the sense that there is a benefit from letting the slabs dry out in the open air after they are rinsed off -whether you dry or wet cure
Click to expand...

Pops and those that brine cure are NOT all wet...   There are many ways to cure meats...   Inject, wet brine, dry cure  and combinations of those...   Everyone finds a systems or invents a system that  fits their personal taste or texture of the finished product...

Some folks like to warm smoke the meat...  some prefer cold smoking...  some folks like natural casings..  some like collagen or muslin... or even NO casing at all...

I prefer 4-6 hours of smoke on most stuff...  Others prefer up to 16 hours or 24 hours...  I prefer alder for salmon, hickory for bacon and Pitmasters Choice for meats guests will eat as it is very forgiving...    When you consider the varieties of smoking woods, the flavor profiles are endless...   Many on here have mixed flavor woods with awesome flavor profiles... 

Everyone sharing their likes and dislikes gives others an opportunity to "try" or "avoid" things based on others recommendations...


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## ddrian

I like trying different ideas from experienced processes that are safe. 

The nice thing is the folks here understand that first and then try all of the different ideas to get the right end result that works for them.

Bravo

DDR


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## Bearcarver

DaveOmak said:


> Pops and those that brine cure are NOT all wet...   There are many ways to cure meats...   Inject, wet brine, dry cure  and combinations of those...   Everyone finds a systems or invents a system that  fits their personal taste or texture of the finished product...
> 
> Some folks like to warm smoke the meat...  some prefer cold smoking...  some folks like natural casings..  some like collagen or muslin... or even NO casing at all...
> 
> I prefer 4-6 hours of smoke on most stuff...  Others prefer up to 16 hours or 24 hours...  I prefer alder for salmon, hickory for bacon and Pitmasters Choice for meats guests will eat as it is very forgiving...    When you consider the varieties of smoking woods, the flavor profiles are endless...   Many on here have mixed flavor woods with awesome flavor profiles...
> 
> Everyone sharing their likes and dislikes gives others an opportunity to "try" or "avoid" things based on others recommendations...


All True & Very Well Said !!
	

	
	
		
		



		
			










Good Job, Dave!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Bear


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## browneyesvictim

DaveOmak said:


> Pops and those that brine cure are NOT all wet...   There are many ways to cure meats...   Inject, wet brine, dry cure  and combinations of those...   Everyone finds a systems or invents a system that  fits their personal taste or texture of the finished product...
> 
> Some folks like to warm smoke the meat...  some prefer cold smoking...  some folks like natural casings..  some like collagen or muslin... or even NO casing at all...
> 
> I prefer 4-6 hours of smoke on most stuff...  Others prefer up to 16 hours or 24 hours...  I prefer alder for salmon, hickory for bacon and Pitmasters Choice for meats guests will eat as it is very forgiving...    When you consider the varieties of smoking woods, the flavor profiles are endless...   Many on here have mixed flavor woods with awesome flavor profiles...
> 
> Everyone sharing their likes and dislikes gives others an opportunity to "try" or "avoid" things based on others recommendations...





DaveOmak said:


> For a 2 week cure in the refer, vac bags keep the moisture in....    For bacon, I like curing it on a wire rack, in the open...  I think it ages and gives the bacon more flavor like a dry aged beef roast or steak..   and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway...





Browneyesvictim said:


> I guess Pops, and all those that wet brine cure are just... well.. "all wet".
> 
> I do agree with you in the sense that there is a benefit from letting the slabs dry out in the open air after they are rinsed off -whether you dry or wet cure





DaveOmak said:


> Pops and those that brine cure are NOT all wet...   There are many ways to cure meats...   Inject, wet brine, dry cure  and combinations of those...   Everyone finds a systems or invents a system that  fits their personal taste or texture of the finished product...
> 
> Some folks like to warm smoke the meat...  some prefer cold smoking...  some folks like natural casings..  some like collagen or muslin... or even NO casing at all...
> 
> I prefer 4-6 hours of smoke on most stuff...  Others prefer up to 16 hours or 24 hours...  I prefer alder for salmon, hickory for bacon and Pitmasters Choice for meats guests will eat as it is very forgiving...    When you consider the varieties of smoking woods, the flavor profiles are endless...   Many on here have mixed flavor woods with awesome flavor profiles...
> 
> Everyone sharing their likes and dislikes gives others an opportunity to "try" or "avoid" things based on others recommendations...


Good answer! ...and reading back through this I see that what I said could have sounded sort of condescending to you Dave. I am sorry if that's the case. But I was "fishing" for your response from you because of your statement : "_*    and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway..." *_As much as I value your experience and knowledge over mine, I have to say that is not a 100% accurate statement regardless of personal preferences..


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## daveomak

Browneyesvictim said:


>


What part is inaccurate ??   Don't just throw out a statement without providing some substance... 

Adding moisture gives you todays mass produced wet bacon that gives up it's water when you throw it in the fry pan...

I prefer "old world" aged, cured and smoked bacon... that can hang in the root cellar for months and not need refrigeration...   That's my preference...   maybe you've never had ":real" bacon like we had in the 1950's....

Bacon like Brican makes...  I'm not up to his skill level yet, but I'm trying....  Like I said...  there is no wrong way.. what ever you like is perfect...













Brican's BACON.2jpg.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jun 28, 2017


















Brican's BACON.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jun 28, 2017


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## ddrian

Thanks for the points!

Dave POINTS FOR THE DRY CURE! I love this process . Next week I start into week two on the bacon in the cure right now~


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## daveomak

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## browneyesvictim

Dave, I believe I am calling out YOUR statement I did in fact highlight in bold and italicize- not the other way around.

 "_*    and you don't want moisture in bacon anyway..."*_

I have not made a statement to require backing up or defend. I am merely pointing out a very critical differentiation that is pertinent and relevant to this post that YOU said. And I did site certain circumstances that conflict that make your statement not  correct 100% of the time- regardless of your preference.

I guess Fassets bacon "back in 1950" wasn't "real bacon"  either? And the only "real" bacon is Dry Cured? (Or is that dry aged that you meant?)

     It might be your preference, but that still doesn't make your blanket statement true about moisture for all types of curing. They were wet curing and surely long before 1950. Even still, this is irrelevent as to your preference. Water (moisture) is important as a carrier in the CURING step. But not so good for dry AGING.

Let me ask you... do you rinse off your bacon of your "dry cure" or soak it to pull back any saltiness? 

      Is that not adding water back to it at that point? No matter if bacon is wet cured or dry cured, it should be rinsed off and left to dry some before smoking. Granted- a wet cure theoretically, will take longer to dry some than a dry cured bacon. But again- back to the original post that was in reference to the CURING step where water is involved.

AGED bacon is AGED Bacon,whether it was dry or wet cured. Not the same!

   You may prefer dry aged bacon. Great.  Actually, so do I. And if dry aging,, yes,  low moisture content is important. But we are talking about the curing step vs an additional aging period. But could you not age a WET CURED bacon? CERTAINLY! Probably not optimal, but this is the case in point. 

And for what it is worth, Yes, I have had *and made* both wet and dry cured bacon. I know the difference. Quite well, thank you very much. In fact, has been done so for several generations in my family "Old World" style going back to our homestead farmhouse and my family that came over with Elijah Bristow and other original pioneer settlers that came to Oregon.

I hope you hold no animosity here, Dave. I don't. No emotions run amok here! I hope you are taking this as an intellectual discussion, and that the text doesn't come across as something hostile or antagonistic. I welcome and even value how meticulous you are about many things.

Erik


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