# Actual Temperature in Your Smoker and Common Smoking Misconceptions



## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

Good morning Smoking friends. As an schooled engineer with experience in trend analysis and quality assurance, I've noticed a lot of comments over the years about differences in smoking times and temperatures. With the trend toward more and more technology in smokers, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as the power stays on, temps and times seem to be mentioned more and more. Small meats taking forever. Big meats cooking fast. And comparisons of equal sized meats taking significantly different times when smoked at the same temperature in relatively the same manner. Let me help you understand what is happening with temperature in your smoker.

One more point: most of my comments apply to fuel based smokers/grills. Much of what I wrote can be applied to electric smokers if they have sufficient wattage. 

First, let's all agree meats can be ornery. The same cut of meat of the same weight, from two different animals, can take different times to get tender because they were most likely raised, fed, and exercised differently. Grades of meat can impact times. Even the stress in an animal's life from beginning to end can impact the meat.

Second, let's all agree that any given temperature of say, 250F (set centigrade aside for this discussion), it is 250F whether it is in California, New York, Australia, or Europe. Yes, altitude, atmospheric pressure, salinity, etc, can impact how chemical and physical properties react at a given temp, but 250F is 250F. Same for any other temperature on the gauge.

Which brings us to our smokers and a VERY common misconception. Let's first all agree our thermometers are correct for this discussion and toss out inaccuracies of lid therms and wireless algorithms (they can be VERY different). The common misconception is when you see 250F on your thermometer you assume 250F is the temperature everywhere inside the smoker. Nope. *The only place you can be assured the temperature is 250F is at the tip of your chamber probe. *If the grate is 8" lower than the probe, the grate will be a different temp. If the probe is at the front of the grate, the back of the grate may or may not be at 250F. A probe in the center of the grate will read differently than one closer to the fire, one farther away from the flame, or one near the top. In a vertical smoker, the probe under the vent in the airflow will read higher than a probe opposite the vent away from the path of least resistance. A probe one inch away from cold meat will read substantially lower than one placed 4 inches away until the meat warms up. Bottom line, and I've tested this statement in a Weber Kettle and a WSM, you can have temperature differences of up to 150F in your smoker/grill (50F WSM/150F Kettle) from what your probes are telling you.  Heck, I've even tested non-convection kitchen ovens where I've lived with multiple accurate temperature devices and have yet to find an oven that reads what I've dialed in on the knob or screen. Bottom racks read lower temp than top racks. My current oven reads a 15F difference between racks and the hottest part of the oven still reads 5F lower than the setting.

Pit builders have done their best to minimize temperature differentials in a smoker. Some are better than others, but you'll always have differences in the same smoker, regardless of design, based on where your chamber probe is located. I've developed techniques with my WSM on how to place meat based on the temperature differences around the top grate (edges hotter than middle, grate hottest under vent, bottom rack 15F cooler than top rack even with no water). I've recommended time and time again to test smokers and grills without meat using a $5 oven rack thermometer in different places on your cooking grate with your chamber probe right next to it.  Identify the hot and cold spots. You might be surprised at the differences.

Back to smoking. Meat absorbs heat based on the temperature difference between the meat and the chamber. Cold meat absorbs available heat faster than warm meat. Where this is noticeable is at the beginning and end of a smoke. A 15 lb packer brisket may only take 3-4 hours to go from 38F to 140F at a 250F chamber, but after the stall may take up 4-6 hours to go from 170F to 200F, even longer at lower chamber temps. There's a reason I crank the heat up at the end of my overnight smokes. I don't like waiting on physics to heat my meat.  Or you can do that right from the beginning and have a shorter smoke with the same results. There's nothing magical about what temp you use. Only the clock cares.   

Let's put another misconception to rest, one I've tested. No cold meat, straight from the fridge, will reach room temperature in an hour. In a 250F chamber, yeah, but not a 70-80F room. It's all physics, and literally impossible, unless your looking at an ounce of meat. In which case, don't invite me to dinner.

Another common misconception is that a smoker is running cooler when you load cold meat. That's only partially true. If you load meat in a smoker stabilized at 250F, the chamber temp is going to drop due to the cold mass you just added, BUT THE SMOKER IS STILL BURNING AT 250F. Cold meat absorbs heat. If you don't do a thing to your fire (vents, fuel, etc) the chamber will return to 250F as the meat absorbs available heat energy and warms up. If you have a process for reaching and maintaining a 250F chamber with an offset, don't change your process by adding more fuel to the fire to bring it back up to 250F. Whether you change vents or add more fuel, you are now burning a hotter fire than 250F and will end up chasing temps for the rest of the smoke. 

"Lookin' ain't cookin'" is a common and accurate mantra in the smoking world. It does two things. First, it releases heat. Second, it draws more air through your vents to stoke the fire. Your exhaust just went from a 4" hole to a 22.5" hole in a large WSM, for example. Same rule applies to any other type of smoker. A quick open for spritzing or instant-read meat temp checks will have minimal impact, but over the long haul will impact cooking time and fire management the more you access the smoking chamber. Depending on your vent settings and your smoker's ability to recover, it can shorten or lengthen the cooking time, but lengthen is more common than the other.

Meat probe readings can be impacted by placement in the meat. If too close to a bone, it will read cooler than a couple inches away from the bone. If the probe tip is in a fat seam, you'll get a hotter reading than if it was in the muscle. Probe placement in a packer brisket is best in the flat, not the point. The fat-filled point of a packer brisket appears to cook faster than the flat, but comes out chewy if removed at what you think is the correct internal temp reading. I've seen 10-15F differences between the flat and the point. The actual meat in the point takes just as long as the meat in the flat to reach the tender stage, but all the fat will give a false reading.

To wrap this up, look at the common rules of thumb for smoking times. If your times are SIGNIFICANTLY different for a given temperature, that piece of meat was most likely smoking at a different temp than the end of the chamber probe was reading, or your meat probe placement was not reading muscle or impacted by cooler bone.

This thread is what happens when shelter-in-place starts getting too familiar. If helpful in some way, take what you need. Before countering what I've said, test your input. Untested anecdotal assumptions are often wrong or only partially correct.

Be well. Stay safe.

Ray


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## forktender (Apr 17, 2020)

WOW............What a write up!!!!!
It just goes to show you how different people que. I go buy the redneck rules if a pot of water is at a slow boil in my smoker I am slow smoking, If the pot of water boils out in 40 minutes too and hour I am smoking hot and fast. In all actuality I don't really pay that much attention to precise temperatures because it doesn't effect the outcome of my smokes unless I'm smoking cheese or Salmon.


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## Blues1 (Apr 17, 2020)

Great article. I'm gonna do a little testing on mine. Thank you!


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## Kevinbthgrouse (Apr 17, 2020)

Awesome


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## schlotz (Apr 17, 2020)

Good job Ray


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## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

I appreciate all your comments.


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## texomakid (Apr 17, 2020)

Ray this is a great read. As I read through it I thought about several instances where I learned  some of this on the fly. So good and from my experience very accurate. A lot of real good fuel for thought (pun intended)

And school continues..........
Thanks for sharing that with us.


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## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

texomakid said:


> And school continues..........



Thank you. School never ends!


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## yankee2bbq (Apr 17, 2020)

I enjoyed this read. Thank you Ray!


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## Brokenhandle (Apr 17, 2020)

Good read! Thank you for posting 

Ryan


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## Winterrider (Apr 17, 2020)

Thank you. I have done that with both smokers, checked all corners and front to back temps. It is truly amazing the differences.


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## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

forktender said:


> WOW............What a write up!!!!


That's quite a compliment. Thank you!



Blues1 said:


> Great article. I'm gonna do a little testing on mine. Thank you!



Thanks, and please share what you learn!



Kevinbthgrouse said:


> Awesome





schlotz said:


> Good job Ray



Most appreciated!


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## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

Brokenhandle said:


> Good read! Thank you for posting
> 
> Ryan





yankee2bbq said:


> I enjoyed this read. Thank you Ray!



Justin and Ryan, you are welcome. 



Winterrider said:


> Thank you. I have done that with both smokers, checked all corners and front to back temps. It is truly amazing the differences.



It is an eye opener for many. And once you do it, it is easy to understand how things work with the clock. For example, up until this year I've roasted or smoked 4 to 6 turkeys a year for probably the last 35 years. We're taking a break from the big gobblers this year, but I've changed how I put them in the WSM as a result of my tests (white meat opposite vent and far against the other side). As a result, my white and dark meat finish at the exact same time with a perfect temp difference (160-165F white, 170-175F dark) without any frustration on my part. I even tried something new (for me) with my last turkey in the oven. Start with breast down and flipped after 90 minutes. Temp diff came out perfect. Never too old to learn.


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## MJB05615 (Apr 17, 2020)

Thank you for this thread.  Truly an eye opener.  Big like!


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## gmc2003 (Apr 17, 2020)

Nice job on the write up Ray,

Point for sure
Chris


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## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

MJB05615 said:


> Thank you for this thread.  Truly an eye opener.  Big like!



You're welcome MJB. A lot of the smoking advice, even amongst the professionals, is anecdotal. I've heard that "room temp in an hour" statement on TV so many times. My wife gets pissed if she's enjoying a cooking show, I hear it, and immediately change the channel because everything else the chef says is now just suspect. It is the easiest thing to test with an instant read therm next  time you're going to grill or smoke. A 38F piece of meat MIGHT reach 42F to 45F in an hour on the counter, even for small pieces.


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## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

gmc2003 said:


> Nice job on the write up Ray,
> 
> Point for sure
> Chris



Thanks, Chris. Much appreciated. 

Gotta go and grill some chicken thighs!


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## JckDanls 07 (Apr 17, 2020)

And who says the online schooling isn't working... excellent write up...  

What I did on my stick burner when I first fired it up was to put the Pillsbury pop and fresh biscuits all over the grates....  it will tell you where your hot/medium/cool spots are by the browning/doneness ...


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## noboundaries (Apr 17, 2020)

Excellent technique!


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## ososmokeshack (Apr 18, 2020)

Lots of good info in that post Ray and good read! Glad you touched o the room temp meat point too. It’s always funny to me to hear people say they bring their 15 pound packer or 10 pound butt up to room temp before putting it on the smoker. Was it left out for 12 hours?


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## noboundaries (Apr 18, 2020)

ososmokeshack said:


> Lots of good info in that post Ray and good read! Glad you touched o the room temp meat point too. It’s always funny to me to hear people say they bring their 15 pound packer or 10 pound butt up to room temp before putting it on the smoker. Was it left out for 12 hours?



Thanks. OSS! I've tried researching the origin of that advice but had no luck finding an answer. So it's probably an old wive's tale that's persisted through the years, passed on from generation to generation. Either that, or some celebrity chef said it without testing it for accuracy and it stuck.


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## noboundaries (Apr 18, 2020)

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had to jump off to go grill chicken thighs. They were bone-in, skin-on thighs, 10 in the package with a total weight of about 5 lbs, so roughly 8 oz per thigh.

I bought the meat Thursday morning and stuck it on my "meat shelf" in the fridge when I got home from grocery shopping. The "meat shelf" is the lowest and coldest shelf in my fridge it is next to the cooling vent. It typically keeps meat at roughly 34F. The meat was not frozen when purchased.

I pulled the poultry from the fridge and put it on the counter to prep for grilling. It had been on the counter maybe five minutes by the time I got the idea camera to take the first picture. So, total time from beginning to end was approximately 52 minutes.  Couldn't wait an hour because I was getting a late start fixing dinner and the hungries were already starting to rumble. When I first turned on the therm it read the house temp of 71F.

First pic, warmest piece of chicken from the end of the package furthest from the cold vent. The piece nearest the vent was 33.2F and had some ice crystals around the skin.








Second pic. Camera time shows a 47 minute difference.







I will acknowledge that the skin of the chicken was about 7 degrees warmer, or 52F (no pic) so there's that.


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## dr k (May 22, 2020)

Nice! I spent 8 hours yesterday with 6 digital chamber probes in my empty Mes 40. With the four racks above the heating element I flipped over the element to center it in the bottom of the smoker vs the original right rear corner. I placed a rectangular disposable alum baking sheet on the retangular bottom rack. There's a couple inches all around the baking sheet so airflow goes around the pan towards the walls as it moves to the top right rear 3" vent. Different probes are faster than others so I looked at faster as a truer reading than the slower ones. The Auber PID sensor is inbetween fast and slow reading. I used to put it up on the top rack  back wall centered so heat would have passed the roast before getting to the sensor. I was thinking the roast was getting hotter than the displayed temp with the sensor above the roast. The top rack is to hang probes and manage cables, then my go to food rack, then 2nd food rack, then bottom rack for baking sheet drip pan no water. Im thinking hanging my PID probe on the right side a couple inches from the right wall at 2nd from top rack level or a little lower so airflow and heat get me the temp just at or below the meat on the display without overheating the meat compared to  if the probe was higher a little above the meat. This is mostly for not overheating the meat the first half of the smoke because when the meat is hot with the PID the area inside the smoker is very uniform. So if my PID sensor is away from the roast off to the side a little lower than the meat in good airflow would that be the best logical choice to keep the meat more at the displayed temp than the sensor in good airflow above the meat with the meat being a cold sink? Since the top is hottest I also want to not roast the top insulation in the smoker. I have done this before with the stock controller with its sensor on the lower back wall and a probe on the right of the meat a little higher than the roast but the lower sensor cycled too soon and my smoker never got to the desired temp I wanted. So I was thinking the auber sensor next to or slightly lower than the meat keeps it at display temp more than hotter for the first half of the smoke.


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## MJB05615 (May 22, 2020)

dr k said:


> Nice! I spent 8 hours yesterday with 6 digital chamber probes in my empty Mes 40. With the four racks above the heating element I flipped over the element to center it in the bottom of the smoker vs the original right rear corner. I placed a rectangular disposable alum baking sheet on the retangular bottom rack. There's a couple inches all around the baking sheet so airflow goes around the pan towards the walls as it moves to the top right rear 3" vent. Different probes are faster than others so I looked at faster as a truer reading than the slower ones. The Auber PID sensor is inbetween fast and slow reading. I used to put it up on the top rack  back wall centered so heat would have passed the roast before getting to the sensor. I was thinking the roast was getting hotter than the displayed temp with the sensor above the roast. The top rack is to hang probes and manage cables, then my go to food rack, then 2nd food rack, then bottom rack for baking sheet drip pan no water. Im thinking hanging my PID probe on the right side a couple inches from the right wall at 2nd from top rack level or a little lower so airflow and heat get me the temp just at or below the meat on the display without overheating the meat compared to  if the probe was higher a little above the meat. This is mostly for not overheating the meat the first half of the smoke because when the meat is hot with the PID the area inside the smoker is very uniform. So if my PID sensor is away from the roast off to the side a little lower than the meat in good airflow would that be the best logical choice to keep the meat more at the displayed temp than the sensor in good airflow above the meat with the meat being a cold sink? Since the top is hottest I also want to not roast the top insulation in the smoker. I have done this before with the stock controller with its sensor on the lower back wall and a probe on the right of the meat a little higher than the roast but the lower sensor cycled too soon and my smoker never got to the desired temp I wanted. So I was thinking the auber sensor next to or slightly lower than the meat keeps it at display temp more than hotter for the first half of the smoke.


I've been keeping my Auber probe clipped to the top right rack.  I also cook most of the stuff on that same top rack, usually 2-3 inches from the probe.  Since I installed the Auber, thanks to your excellent advice, my cook temps are more stable and cook times more consistent.  It makes sense to me that the top is the hottest place.  So if I moved the probe to the middle left area, and still cook on the top rack, wouldn't the temp at the top meat level be much higher than the center left probe area?


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## dr k (May 22, 2020)

MJB05615 said:


> I've been keeping my Auber probe clipped to the top right rack.  I also cook most of the stuff on that same top rack, usually 2-3 inches from the probe.  Since I installed the Auber, thanks to your excellent advice, my cook temps are more stable and cook times more consistent.  It makes sense to me that the top is the hottest place.  So if I moved the probe to the middle left area, and still cook on the top rack, wouldn't the temp at the top meat level be much higher than the center left probe area?


That's what I  think so a top right rear vent ultimately airflow goes that way to get it to the hottest temp in the smoker. I really like the top rack to suspend probes and manage cables so the next rack down is what you are doing on your top rack that I was wondering about. So maybe moving my Auber probe to the right side towards the right rear corner a little below the meat will keep the meat at or a little below set point. I usually cook butts, briskets and ribs at 275° but I don't want the meat to be exposed to heat hotter than that in our vertical smokers so tweeking the placement and your set up sounds perfect. When doing one rack smokes the top rack your doing sounds great but a two rack smoke with using the top two racks may have the top rack much hotter so rotating them or use the middle two racks with the auber probe on the right side lower roast and the probe slightly lower to keep roasts at set temp?


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## MJB05615 (May 22, 2020)

So here's what I got going , tonight at 1am putting on an 8 lb butt, top rack, 2-3 inches away from the Auber probe.  Was planning on cooking at 250'.  Rechecking every 2-3 hours.  Figuring it'll take til 3 or 4pm Saturday to be done.  Noon Saturday putting on a rack of spare ribs middle rack also keeping temp set at 250'.  Ribs usually take 5-6 hours at 240' for me, so they should both be ready to serve by 6pm, hopefully.  I rarely use 2 racks at the same time, and this seems to add up, since the butt takes longer, and can use the higher temp, ribs are ok on the 2nd rack I think.  Or when I put the ribs on, should I move the butt to second rack, and do the ribs on the top?  Normally when I do just ribs, I use the top and cook at 240.


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## dr k (May 23, 2020)

MJB05615 said:


> So here's what I got going , tonight at 1am putting on an 8 lb butt, top rack, 2-3 inches away from the Auber probe.  Was planning on cooking at 250'.  Rechecking every 2-3 hours.  Figuring it'll take til 3 or 4pm Saturday to be done.  Noon Saturday putting on a rack of spare ribs middle rack also keeping temp set at 250'.  Ribs usually take 5-6 hours at 240' for me, so they should both be ready to serve by 6pm, hopefully.  I rarely use 2 racks at the same time, and this seems to add up, since the butt takes longer, and can use the higher temp, ribs are ok on the 2nd rack I think.  Or when I put the ribs on, should I move the butt to second rack, and do the ribs on the top?  Normally when I do just ribs, I use the top and cook at 240.


You probably can let it go since they started at different times and see what happens. I don't usually wrap and hold in a cooler with crumpled newspaper or towels but if the butt is done, then it can rest/hold  for  hours in a cooler while ribs smoke. If I'm doing one meat, then I wrap and leave in the turned off smoker with a therm in it till ready to pull and if it gets down to 140 IT I just turn the PID on to 140. I noticed my center two racks are close in temp compared to the top rack. So I use the two center racks and can always rotate and spin racks 180° if the cuts aren't uniform and one side has more bark etc.


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## MJB05615 (May 23, 2020)

dr k said:


> You probably can let it go since they started at different times and see what happens. I don't usually wrap and hold in a cooler with crumpled newspaper or towels but if the butt is done, then it can rest/hold  for  hours in a cooler while ribs smoke. If I'm doing one meat, then I wrap and leave in the turned off smoker with a therm in it till ready to pull and if it gets down to 140 IT I just turn the PID on to 140. I noticed my center two racks are close in temp compared to the top rack. So I use the two center racks and can always rotate and spin racks 180° if the cuts aren't uniform and one side has more bark etc.


Good advice, as usual.  I moved the Auber probe to the rear of the top rack, kept on the right side, now it's almost directly under the vent, clipped to the top rack.  I felt like the chamber temp got up to 250 in the same amount of time as before, but temp swings seem to be less.  Maybe because it's around 68-70' here already.
I'm 8 hours into the Butt cook.  Got 3 inkbird probes in. each end is reading 151' , middle reading 153'.  Weird to me that the center of the meat is hotter than either end.  I'll change positions slightly of the meat probes in an hour to see if it changes.  Usually doesn't.


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## nchapelheel (May 23, 2020)

Excellent advice. Thank you. Another thing to consider is a supplemental smoke generator such as the
products from AMAZN. Anything close to them will receive radiant heat. There are times using the
pellet tube that I have put an aluminum foil barrier between the tube and the meat. Shiny side towards the tube!!
Happy smoking!


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