# Canadian bacon challenge - dry cure vs brine - side by side test



## smoking b

My latest batch of Canadian bacon I decided to do a direct comparison of dry vs wet cure. I took 2 loins & cut each into thirds.

For the dry cured pieces I made Shooter's version, pepper bacon & left one plain for comparison. I used TQ for the dry cure.

For the wet cure I used the brine recipe posted by Pops - everyone seems to like it & it is easy to make.













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__ smoking b
__ Dec 29, 2012






Dry cured loin in the baggies wet cured in the bucket.













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This was my first time doing a wet cure so I didn't add any extra spices to it. I also cut each piece in half to make sure it had cured the whole way through. Looks fine.













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__ smoking b
__ Dec 29, 2012






Into the fridge to form a pellicle. Tomorrow I will smoke them.

Updates to follow...


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## cmix

Standing by...


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## daveomak

Jeremy, morning.... Looking good.....  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






.. I'm in ...   Dave


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## smoking b

I am smoking some ribs & taters for lunch right now. They will come out at 12 & then it will be time for the bacon to go in


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## smoking b

Ok I am completely stuffed from the ribs but I managed to get the bacon going. It had a nice pellicle after sitting in the fridge overnight. I loaded the AMNPS with hickory pellets this time.













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__ smoking b
__ Dec 30, 2012






Smoking away nicely in the MES. Dry cured bacon above brined bacon below. Updates to follow...


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## JckDanls 07

I'm in..  wanna see what your thoughts are both ways


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## smoking b

Well the bacon is coming along nicely so far - been in a little over 4 hours. Smoker temp staying right around 60* It's getting really windy here & blowing lots of fine snow around. I took a rubber band & covered the smoker control with some plastic just to be safe. Updates to follow...


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## smoking b

Still smoking away


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## smoking b

Ok just took the bacon out of the smoker. Put it into the fridge to rest overnight & I will do the side by side comparison tomorrow. Stay tuned for updates & the final results...


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## dirtsailor2003

Looks good will interested in the results. I normally cold smoke my CB for 4 hrs, then take it up to 145*F so will be interested in how just cold smoking goes. Did you do a fry test prior to smoking?


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## smoking b

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Looks good will interested in the results. I normally cold smoke my CB for 4 hrs, then take it up to 145*F so will be interested in how just cold smoking goes. Did you do a fry test prior to smoking?


I've cold smoked my CB every time I've made it. I think it takes the smoke MUCH better that way but that's just me... I didn't fry test the dry cured this time (I have every other time & it has always been fine) I did a fry test on the brined though & it was ok.

EDIT:  I didn't take a pic of the fry test & forgot to put it in my post...


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## smoking b

Ok here we go. I used the plain dry cured CB & the brined CB.













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Dry cure on the left wet cure on the right...













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Dry cure on the bottom wet cure on the top...













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Closer view of the dry cure...













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Closer view of the wet cure...


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## dirtsailor2003

Looks Great!!! Just had BBB and eggs, now I'm hungry again!!!


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## jetman

Looking great, can't wait to try wet brine on my next batch.

JetMan<<<


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## smoking b

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Looks Great!!! Just had BBB and eggs, now I'm hungry again!!!





Jetman said:


> Looking great, can't wait to try wet brine on my next batch.
> 
> JetMan<<<


Thanks guys! I recruited 2 extra judges for this event as well so I could have some unbiased opinions - they should be here soon...


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## smoking b

While waiting on the guest judges to arrive I decided to slice up the bacon. I got out the beastly Hobart 1712 & put it to work. I used the automatic feature & while it was slicing I got each type of CB ready. A few minutes later I was all done. Each time I use that slicer I am even happier that I stumbled upon it  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	

















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__ smoking b
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Shooter style dry cured CB













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Pepper CB dry cured













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Plain dry cured CB













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Wet cured CB













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Close-up of the wet cured CB













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Close-up of the plain dry cured CB


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## mike johnson

i cant wait to see what the judges think. I have only dry cured CB so far.


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## smoking b

While waiting I vacuum sealed some of the bacon.













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I put 2 days worth into each bag & did 3 bags each of brined & dry cured. The rest will get eaten well before it goes bad


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## smoking b

The judges have finally arrived!


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## dirtsailor2003

Let the judging begin!!!!


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## JckDanls 07

:popcorn


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## smoking b

I have the results from the first two judges. I have my parents stopping in tomorrow & I am going to have them sample & judge as well so that there are results from a couple different generations of judges. Once that is done I will post all the results from the judging as well as my own thoughts. Stay tuned for the final outcome


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## diggingdogfarm

Looks real good!



~Martin


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## mike johnson

the suspense is killing me... LOL


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## smoking b

Ok my parents just got here. I am gonna cook some CB for them to try while waiting for the pork to finish resting & pull. I will finally be able to post the results tonight  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Updates to follow...


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## dirtsailor2003

Smoking B said:


> Ok my parents just got here. I am gonna cook some CB for them to try while waiting for the pork to finish resting & pull. I will finally be able to post the results tonight
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WooHoo!!! Bring it on!!!


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## JckDanls 07

Is this your version of foreplay ?     :ROTF


:popcorn


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## jimalbert

HAHAHA... Foreplay.  I probably shouldn't say what I am thinking but I will anyway.  Since you live in south central PA i would assume your close to state college and you should be lucky that Jerry Sandusky didn't have a thing for CB because you would probably be in trouble right now!    hAHAa.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Jim


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## smoking b

You guys are funny!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





    The bacon is being eaten...

Results to follow...


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## smoking b

Quick posting of the results. More details & thoughts to be posted a little later once my parents leave (I am enjoying the visit)  but for now here are the judges votes on the Canadian Bacon...

There were 4 judges & these were their decisions

dry cure ------- 3 votes

wet cure ------- 1 vote

Further details to come...


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## chef jimmyj

Smoking B said:


> Quick posting of the results. More details & thoughts to be posted a little later once my parents leave (I am enjoying the visit)  but for now here are the judges votes on the Canadian Bacon...
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> There were 4 judges & these were their decisions
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> dry cure ------- 3 votes
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> wet cure ------- 1 vote
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> Further details to come...


Cheese and Rice! It didn't take this long to get the results of which way Florida was sending their Electoral College Votes!...JJ


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## smoking b

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Cheese and Rice! It didn't take this long to get the results of which way Florida was sending their Electoral College Votes!...JJ









    Sorry - wasn't trying to piss anyone off. I don't get to see my parents very often but they have been back in the area for a few weeks for the holidays. They were here again tonight & I wanted to spend a little time with them while I could...  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





     I will start off by saying that everyone liked both types of bacon very much. The first 2 judges both liked the dry cure just a little more. Both stated that it had a wee bit more smoke flavor than the wet cure. I had them give their opinions when they first arrived, after having a couple drinks & at the end of the night for a total of 3 times. They made the same decision each time but stated that the wet cure was very close. I did not tell them which was which before they sampled it. Neither of these first two judges made any texture comparisons.

     The second set of judges were my parents. My dad chose the dry cured bacon & my mom chose the wet cured bacon. I had them try it both before & after the pulled pork & both chose the same each time. I did not tell them which was which before sampling either. Both of them compared the texture of the bacon. My mom preferred the wet cure because she said it was slightly more moist. My dad preferred the dry cure because it was slightly less moist & a tad bit saltier. Both thought the dry cure had a hint more smoke flavor but were quick to add that both types of bacon were very good.

     Now for my thoughts. The dry cured bacon was just a tad saltier with a tiny bit more smoke flavor - not very much though. The wet cured bacon definitely had more moisture. I was happy with both types of bacon. The dry cured bacon required just a little more effort due to having to turn the bags over every day versus placing the loin in the brine & letting it do its thing. That is not a factor for me but is something to consider. I am not really sure why the dry cured bacon took on a little bit more smoke flavor but it did. When cooking I used a bit of olive oil in the pan. The dry cure soaked up a tiny amount of it. The wet cure not so much due to the higher moisture content. It would be a lot easier to burn the dry cured bacon than the wet cured or cook it to leather consistency if not careful.

     As of right now I have to go with the dry cure as my preference mainly due to its slightly higher saltiness. To get a completely fair comparison though I need to dry cure with TQ & brine with TQ or dry cure with #1 & brine with #1 - that would level the playing field & I will try that on my next CB...


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## dirtsailor2003

Thanks for the great write up! With the Pop's Brine how much salt did you use? I only ask as the recipe calls for a range of 1/3 cup to 1 cup per gallon. My first batch I used 1/3 per gallon (made 3 gallons) and added an additional 1/4 cup. I thought it was pretty spot on for CB, I prefer mine CB not very salty.  I thought that the BBB and Belly needed more salt.


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## smoking b

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Thanks for the great write up! With the Pop's Brine how much salt did you use? I only ask as the recipe calls for a range of 1/3 cup to 1 cup per gallon. My first batch I used 1/3 per gallon (made 3 gallons) and added an additional 1/4 cup. I thought it was pretty spot on for CB, I prefer mine CB not very salty.  I thought that the BBB and Belly needed more salt.


Since this was my first time with the brine I went for the midpoint & used 2/3 cup of salt.


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## daveomak

Great test and tutorial Jeremy....   
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





...   Everyone can learn from this..... Dave


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## tennsmoker

Very Interesting,

I did learn from this test comparision,

thanks

al


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## fagesbp

It all looks great. Now I want to try a dry cure and cold smoke. I only made CB once and it was a wet cure with a hot smoke. Came out way better than any store bought I have tasted.


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## sound1

Thanks for posting. I have been pondering the same question and do like my CB a bit on the salty side and use a dry cure. Now I have a starting point for Pop's brine.


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## smoking b

DaveOmak said:


> Great test and tutorial Jeremy....
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Thanks Dave  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   My next batch I will use either TQ for both or cure #1 for both & post the results.


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## smoking b

It has just come to my attention that TQ should not be used at refrigerator temps due to the nitrate content not being converted to nitrites at the lower temps. My next batch will be made with cure #1 for both the dry & wet cure to do the comparison. I apologize for any confusion or misleading info.


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## diggingdogfarm

Smoking B said:


> It has just come to my attention that TQ should not be used at refrigerator temps



:icon_eek:

Where did that information come from?

MTQ is used a fridge temps all the time.


~Martin


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## dirtsailor2003

Smoking B said:


> It has just come to my attention that TQ should not be used at refrigerator temps due to the nitrate content not being converted to nitrites at the lower temps. My next batch will be made with cure #1 for both the dry & wet cure to do the comparison. I apologize for any confusion or misleading info.


Good to know. I have not used TQ on whole meats, just in the one batch of BearCarvers pepperoni. I thought that he had a CB recipe too that uses TQ, in fact I think all his bacon does. Is it okay because he hot smokes it?

Can you point us to where you came up with this information?


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## chef jimmyj

Smoking B said:


> Sorry - wasn't trying to piss anyone off. I don't get to see my parents very often but they have been back in the area for a few weeks for the holidays. They were here again tonight & I wanted to spend a little time with them while I could...
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## JckDanls 07

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Smoking B said:
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Click to expand...


X2 on what JJ said...  we were only messing with ya...  Lost my mom a year ago the 9th,,,  Make sure you spend as much time with the folks as you can....

For the comparison....   Thumbs Up

For you. when cooking the brined bacon,,,  did it seem like it took a little longer to cook ?  Meaning did it have to steam the moisture out before it started to brown and crisp up ?


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## daveomak

This has been an ongoing discussion, for some time, on this forum and elsewhere.....  Reading between the lines, and interpreting what is written, nitrates convert to nitrites in the presence of live bacteria... refrigeration slows or stops the growth of bacteria.... therefore the nitrates are not converted to nitrites..  nitrates should not be used when it is expected the meat will be fried, due to the formation of nitrosamines... assuming Canadian bacon will be fried, it is not a wise choice to use a curing agent that contains nitrates.....

You may choose to use any curing agent you wish...  This is just a note on what I have interpreted reading all this stuff many, many times..  Morton's has been noted as saying their TQ is safe for bacon etc.... I'm not arguing with their statement.. It may be perfectly fine and safe...  The amount of nitrates could be perfectly safe to consume... Darned if I know what amount is safe... 

I feel it is up to the user to decide what to do... and I feel it is important that both sides of the story be written.... 

Now you have my point of view....  

From Wikipedia.....

Making dry sausages involves curing salts, which incorporate sodium nitrite  and sodium nitrate. Nitrites are used for all types of sausages and are the most common. _*Nitrates are used only in the preparation of the cured dry style of sausages*. Over a period of time the nitrates are converted into nitrites by endogenous or added bacteria.  _Dry cured sausage are cured at temps above 45 Deg F..  live active bacteria are necessary for nitrates to convert to nitrites..

The human digestive system  manufactures nitrites, which is thought to be what prevents botulism, which would thrive in the anaerobic  conditions and temperature range of the digestive system (gut).The lack of nitrites  has been implicated in sudden infant death syndrome.[sup][_citation needed_][/sup]

Cured meat products typically contain less than 40 ppm _w_/_w_  nitrites.

Potassium nitrite  and potassium nitrate  additions allow the production of sausages with lower levels of sodium. When using the potassium form, it is necessary to include other ingredients to mask the bitter flavours it imparts.

In the sausage industry the nitrites and nitrates are pre-formulated into products called Prague powder#1 and Prague powder#2. Prague powder #1 contains 6.25% sodium nitrite and 93.75% sodium chloride and is used for the preparation of all cured meats and sausages other than the dry type.[sup][1][/sup]  _Prague powder #2 contains 1 ounce of sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 0.64 ounces sodium nitrate (4.0%) per pound of finished product (the remaining 14.36 ounces is sodium chloride) *and is used for the preparation of cured dry sausages*. Prague powder #2 should never be used on any product that will be fried at high temperature (e.g. __bacon) because of the resulting formation of nitrosamines. _

Prague powder #2,  Cure #2,  Mortons Tender Quick (TQ).....  all contain nitrates...  Nitrates are to be used in the making of dry style sausages....  Nitrates should never be used in a product that will be fried.... 

FSIA regulations. pg 28

Regardless of the curing method used, restricted ingredient calculations for bacon are based on

the green weight of the skinless belly. For rind-on bacon, e.g., where the skin is sold as part of

the finished product, a restricted ingredient conversion calculation is necessary. Nitrate is no

longer permitted in any curing method for bacon.  *I take this to mean any product that will be fried... *

*OK, that is all I know.......  Whip me, beat me, make me write bad checks...... but don't call me late for some good Q.....*

*Dave*


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## diggingdogfarm

FWIW.....

The study that created all the ridiculous hysteria and fear mungering was on bacon fried at 600 degrees, I don't know anyone in their right mind who fries bacon at that temperature.

The USDA is overly cautious.

Why doesn't the USDA allow nitrate in *commercial* bacon?
Because nitrates convert to nitrites.

Why is that a potential concern (according to them)?
Because under certain conditions, nitrites can convert to nitrosamines which are potentially carcinogenic.

What other measures does the USDA require in *commercial* bacon to limit nitrites?
Nitrite is limited to no more than 120ppm for skin off bacon and less for skin-on (something that's not really pushed on this forum)
*All commercial bacon must also contain a cure accelerator so that nitrite will quickly convert to nitric oxide which limits residual nitrite which could convert to nitrosamines (this is something that's never pushed on this forum)*

So, unless all the above are folowed, nitrosamines are still a potential problem, however remote.

I also agree that everyone should make their own decisions.

Those who fear it should follow the almighty USDA's rules to the "t", NOT just part way. Nitrite only! Nitrite limited to no more that 120 ppm! Cure accelerator!

Personally, I think it's much ado about nothing!!!

Thousands of people home cure bacon with MTQ, thousands of people home cure bacon with cure#1 with more than 120 ppm nitrite (hopefully not more than 156ppm nitrite), thousands upon thousands of people home cure bacon without cure accelerator.

Again, do whatever makes you feel good and safe.

Carry on....:wink:

~Martin


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## dirtworldmike

Now I'm really confused !


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## diggingdogfarm

Too bad it has to be confusing, unfortunately, the inspectors' book has caused a lot of confusion.

Just follow the basic rules for home curing and you'll be fine.

Follow Morton's instructions when using their products.

Follow the generally accepted rule of thumb when using cure #1 which is one level teaspoon per 5 lbs. of meat.



~Martin


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## fpnmf

If we dont like the IRS,FBI,ATF and the rest of those clowns ..why is the USDA accepted as gospel..

Makes no sense to me...


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## diggingdogfarm

fpnmf said:


> If we dont like the IRS,FBI,ATF and the rest of those clowns ..why is the USDA accepted as gospel..
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Makes absolutely no sense to me either!!!!!



~Martin


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## smoking b

Ok - I thought you were mad I hadn't put the whole results up. I was trying to keep everyone updated by posting the vote count till I could elaborate later once my parents left...

Thanks!


JckDanls 07 said:


> X2 on what JJ said... we were only messing with ya... Lost my mom a year ago the 9th,,, Make sure you spend as much time with the folks as you can....
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It's ok - I had thought I pissed off Chef JimmyJ but it's all good. 

Thanks!

I'm glad you brought that up - I forgot to add that in my comparison. The brined bacon positively took longer to cook because of the higher moisture content. It wasn't a night & day difference in time but it was noticeable. Thanks for reminding me about that aspect I overlooked


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## diggingdogfarm

Smoking B said:


> It has just come to my attention that TQ should not be used at refrigerator temps



Just to clarify.

MTQ is an all-purpose cure.
MTQ contains nitrite in addition to nitrate.
Folks should follow the directions given by Morton's which are printed on the bag.
In general, cure at 36 to 40 degrees F.

Anyway, back to the Canadian Bacon.

The bacon looks great Jeremy, I'm glad it turned out good!!!


~Martin


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## dirtsailor2003

So just to confirm, I can roll my pork loin in whatever I want and smoke it and it will be the best Canadian bacon I've ever had, right???


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## pops6927

Both "dry cure" and "wet cure" perform the same basic function;  you apply the cure, it equalizes with the inner moisture, and you smoke it.  One is immersed, one is coated and will form its own brine from moisture pulled from the meat.  It is more complicated to dry cure than wet cure, spreading the cure evenly, turning every day, vs. mixing the ingredients with water and letting it soak.  But, it is just processing.  The REAL difference is, with wet cure, you can adjust the quantities of ingredients such as salt and types of salt, sugar or Splenda[emoji]174[/emoji] alternatives, Brown or white, etc.; whereas dry cure, you get what you get with only changing premade mixes.  No chance to adjust.  If your experiment the TQ was a tad bit saltier, add a full cup of salt, vs. 2/3; it's that simple.  Wet brining will be moister; but, if it's too salty in a fry test, soaking in water for an hour arrives at the same thing.  Regardless, they are both using similar ingredients and similar processes and done about the same way, it is entirely YOUR preference whichever way you want to cure.  Sometimes its a matter of physical space; 3 pc of pork in ziplocs is much easier on fridge space than a 5 gal. bucket.  I'd say it was a great comparison and points out some of the benefits of both methods and that they compliment each other vs. being in competition with each other!  Thank you so much of doing the test!


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## chef jimmyj

Ok - I thought you were mad I hadn't put the whole results up. I was trying to keep everyone updated by posting the vote count till I could elaborate later once my parents left...

Thanks!

MAD are you kidding me? You are a neighbor and I am a fan of your work. No, like I said just goofing on you. Now I hope YOU were not offended!...As far as I am concerned we are all good...JJ


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## smoking b

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Ok - I thought you were mad I hadn't put the whole results up. I was trying to keep everyone updated by posting the vote count till I could elaborate later once my parents left...
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Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Nope - I took no offense at all - It was a misinterpretation on my part.  Yup 100% A-OK


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## webowabo

Couldnt sleep.. and when that happens I read up on curing.. this was a great read. .. I learned alot just off this thread..with a few other tonight. . Im ready for some CB atleast I think.. 
I think the dry mix cure is what I'll give a go. I have both TQ and cure#1... think ill find a recipe and go with cure#1...
Thanks for the read and the trial tutorial Smoking B
Mike


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## smoking b

webowabo said:


> Couldnt sleep.. and when that happens I read up on curing.. this was a great read. .. I learned alot just off this thread..with a few other tonight. . Im ready for some CB atleast I think..
> I think the dry mix cure is what I'll give a go. I have both TQ and cure#1... think ill find a recipe and go with cure#1...
> Thanks for the read and the trial tutorial Smoking B
> Mike


You're quite welcome - glad you found the thread helpful


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## kjw08

How long did you end up cold smoking for?


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## fpmich

Good question KJW08.

I've found this thread a good read.


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## tplummer27

How long did you let the the loin sit in the wet cure for?


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## smoking b

KJW08 said:


> How long did you end up cold smoking for?


I cold smoked the CB for roughly 12 hours - I burnt a whole fill of pellets in the AMNPS


fpmich said:


> Good question KJW08.
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Thanks


tplummer27 said:


> How long did you let the the loin sit in the wet cure for?


I brined it for 2 weeks


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## countrykat

Can we get a link for the 2 original recipes used?

We are butchering 3- 240lb hogs this coming Saturday and they want me to do the bacon. Never done it before. I just got 2 bags of LEM smoked wet brine today and it says to hold fridge temp at 38 deg for 4 days. It's just a smoke flavor but I would like some maple flavor too.


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## briankinlaw

It all looks great! instead of cutting those loins in half, I use a injector to get the cure in the middle this insures  the cure makes it all the way through.  I dry cure and wet cure the same way always using my injector.  For me, on large hams and shoulders it's a must.  Having a Great smoking day...


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