# Newbie needs help on smokers masterbuilt gen 1 or gen 2???



## dpdguns (Jan 17, 2015)

Newbie needs help I want to get my first smoker amazon has Gen 1 Masterbuilt 20070910 30-Inch $149 and Gen 2 Masterbuilt 20070213 30-Inch for $219 which is a better beginner smoker I see reviews all over the place. I see problems with gen2 to starting on fire. I don't want to waste my money so any help is appreciated.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 17, 2015)

DPDguns said:


> Newbie needs help I want to get my first smoker amazon has Gen 1 Masterbuilt 20070910 30-Inch $149 and Gen 2 Masterbuilt 20070213 30-Inch for $219 which is a better beginner smoker I see reviews all over the place. I see problems with gen2 to starting on fire. I don't want to waste my money so any help is appreciated.


Get the Gen #1----You'll be Happy with it.

Stay away from the Gen #2.

Bear


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## daricksta (Jan 17, 2015)

I own the Gen 1 and am totally happy with it. And I paid more for it than you're going to.


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## dpdguns (Jan 18, 2015)

Just bought the Gen 1 I figured for $149 with free shipping can't really go wrong. I just wish they had more than a 90 day warranty. Its pretty cold here in Mi so not sure how much smoking I will be doing in the next month or two.


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## jted (Jan 18, 2015)

DPDguns said:


> Just bought the Gen 1 I figured for $149 with free shipping can't really go wrong. I just wish they had more than a 90 day warranty. Its pretty cold here in Mi so not sure how much smoking I will be doing in the next month or two.


DPDguns, Welcome. Bear gave you great advice on your choice. You might think about stopping by roll call and introducing yourself to the forum. Your smoker will work well in temps down to the 20's. I am a fair weather smoker but the amount of time you need to stay with it is minimal. Quick trips outside to add chips will give you a sense of smoking. Season your smoker and get it ready so you fully understand the controller. My first time I missed the part about programing the time. 

Find your self a nice rack of st Louis style ribs ( they are the easiest) for the first time. Sign up for Jeff's 5 day cooking school. It has lots of great info and is free. Knowledge is power so suck it up. 

Get you ribs ready and try to get them on by 11am they will be done by dinner. 

Report back on your results. We want you to succeed. Ask questions we all had them.

                                                                          Good smoking and Good Luck


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## sbishop (Jan 18, 2015)

I was just about to post a new thread wondering if the amazon price was a good deal and if the MES30 gen 1 was a good machine.

I'm not new to smoking...I've got a homemade plywood smoker with a northern tool propane burner that has treated me well the past few years but its big and as the wife says "looks like an outhouse on our deck"....was thinking of downsizings... I smoke mostly back bacon, wings, bacon, pulled pork....is this a set it and forget it? that's the only thing I'm missing...mind you my homemade smoker isn't that bad to control the heat..I usually check it every 20-30mins.

What do you guys think? how much smoke time do you get until you need to reload?

I'm also planning on getting a weber 22.5 charcoal....would both of these items be a perfect match?

Sbishop


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## Bearcarver (Jan 18, 2015)

sbishop said:


> I was just about to post a new thread wondering if the amazon price was a good deal and if the MES30 gen 1 was a good machine.
> 
> I'm not new to smoking...I've got a homemade plywood smoker with a northern tool propane burner that has treated me well the past few years but its big and as the wife says "looks like an outhouse on our deck"....was thinking of downsizings... I smoke mostly back bacon, wings, bacon, pulled pork....is this a set it and forget it? that's the only thing I'm missing...mind you my homemade smoker isn't that bad to control the heat..I usually check it every 20-30mins.
> 
> ...


You want "Set-it & forget it"????

Then you need an MES Gen #1, and an AMNPS, and a Digital wireless Thermometer set.

Then you can load the AMNPS & light it, set your MES to temp, put your meat in & let it smoke with perfect smoke for up to 11 hours without touching anything.

Bear


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## sbishop (Jan 18, 2015)

Bearcarver..thanks for the reply

what I meant was a set the temperature and forget it :-)..compared to what I have now!

looks like the MES30 Gen1 is a good smoker....now the AMNPS...is it really needed?

how long of a burn would you get from a MES30...does it hold lots of wood?

Thanks for all the help.


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## dave from mesa (Jan 19, 2015)

What Bear said.

Don't know how big the chip holder is on the 30 but my 40 will only allow about 20 min of smoke till I have to reload it. Now I have the AMNPS and don't worry about it.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 19, 2015)

sbishop said:


> Bearcarver..thanks for the reply
> 
> what I meant was a set the temperature and forget it :-)..compared to what I have now!
> 
> ...


I wouldn't want to smoke without my AMNPS-----Been using mine for over 4 years.

It goes for about 11 hours on a full load of wood pellets (Hickory).

Here is a link:

http://www.amazenproducts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AMNPS5X8

Bear


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## daricksta (Jan 19, 2015)

sbishop said:


> I was just about to post a new thread wondering if the amazon price was a good deal and if the MES30 gen 1 was a good machine.
> 
> I'm not new to smoking...I've got a homemade plywood smoker with a northern tool propane burner that has treated me well the past few years but its big and as the wife says "looks like an outhouse on our deck"....was thinking of downsizings... I smoke mostly back bacon, wings, bacon, pulled pork....is this a set it and forget it? that's the only thing I'm missing...mind you my homemade smoker isn't that bad to control the heat..I usually check it every 20-30mins.
> 
> ...


A Weber 22.5 charcoal...what? Smokey Mountain? If so, not sure why you'd need two smokers. I own a Weber 22.5" One Touch Silver charcoal kettle grill so that's why I'm asking the questions.


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## sbishop (Jan 19, 2015)

I would like to have a charcoal bbq.....no charcoal from a mes30 or am I missing something? :-)


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## daricksta (Jan 19, 2015)

sbishop said:


> I would like to have a charcoal bbq.....no charcoal from a mes30 or am I missing something? :-)


Are you talking charcoal bbq as in a smoker or a kettle grill that most people call a bbq? On SMF, barbecue refers to low and slow cooking over wood smoke. Cooking on a kettle or a propane gill is grilling.

But anyway, for BBQ purists, the advantages of using a charcoal smoker over an electric smoker are: 1. It saves on electric and propane charges. 2. You can get a smoke ring with charcoal but not with an electric smoker. Most of us who own a MES are OK with no smoke rings because they're cosmetic anyway.

The main disadvantage with using a charcoal smoker would be the necessity for refilling it with charcoal during long smokes. I don't know how long a load of charcoal would last in a WSM but I've read they last many hours longer at full heat than in a grill. But still, there's going to a temp drop when the briquettes are burning out, when you need to open the door to toss in a new batch, and until the new briquettes catch fire and turn red-hot white. But the WSM is highly rated and extremely popular.

Of course, this entire comment has been superfluous if you were talking about a charcoal kettle grill.

Almost forgot: here's another vote for the AMNPS. I never use wood chips anymore. The AMNPS works as advertised.


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## sbishop (Jan 19, 2015)

DaRicksta,

I should have been more clear, weber charcoal for grilling steak and burgers (we call that bbq, eh!) 

I'm wondering if the AMNPS would work with the fine chips I have? the chips are about 1/4"X1/4" by 1/16" thick...I get them from my uncles sawmill.

DPDguns, sorry if I took over your thread....

Sbishop


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## daricksta (Jan 20, 2015)

sbishop said:


> DaRicksta,
> 
> I should have been more clear, weber charcoal for grilling steak and burgers (we call that bbq, eh!)
> 
> ...


Sbishop, I used to grilling BBQ before I bought my smoker and joined this forum.

I gotta say that I love my Weber One Touch Silver more than my MES. I really enjoy smoking meat but there's just something about cooking on a charcoal grill that's like nothing else.

The AMNPS was designed for wood pellets and dust. The best persons to ask if those chips of yours would work are Todd Johnson, who invented and sells the AMNPS, and Bearcarver, who did the testing and QC for Todd in the MES 30. If neither one responds in this thread you can PM them through SMF or you can contact Todd here: http://www.amazenproducts.com/default.asp

Todd's a great guy and he responds very quickly to PMs and emails. He'll be able to recommend what's best for your setup. I bought my AMNPS from him and continue to buy wood pellets (I only use his) and other things from his site. He and Bear have both helped me up my smoking game.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 20, 2015)

sbishop said:


> DaRicksta,
> 
> I should have been more clear, weber charcoal for grilling steak and burgers (we call that bbq, eh!)
> 
> ...


You can try it, but Pellets and fine grainy Sawdust work the best.

As for the Dust, I have used dust from:

Miter Saw

Table Saw while crosscutting

Radial Saw

And I have tried without much success, dust, chips, or shavings from:

Table Saw while ripping

Shaper

Planer

Jointer

Too fine of a dust from Wide Belt Sander, Edge Sander, and Spindle sanders

Bear


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## daricksta (Jan 20, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> You can try it, but Pellets and fine grainy Sawdust work the best.
> 
> As for the Dust, I have used dust from:
> 
> ...


This is why you're the MES/AMNPS Authority, Bear, and why I referred our friend over to you.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 20, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> This is why you're the MES/AMNPS Authority, Bear, and why I referred our friend over to you.


LOL---Todd's the authority!!  I was just one of his testers.

Bear


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## rugerlc9 (Jan 22, 2015)

I bought my MES 30 Gen 1 from Gander Mountain last Sunday on line for $149.   When I went to pick if up at the store they offered me an 2 year extended warranty for $19.99 which I didn't hesitate to buy.


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## dr k (May 13, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Get the Gen #1----You'll be Happy with it.
> 
> Stay away from the Gen #2.
> 
> Bear





daRicksta said:


> I own the Gen 1 and am totally happy with it. And I paid more for it than you're going to.


Are the Gen 1 and 2 digital?  I've seen digital displays in the front and on the back of the smokers.  Does the outside packaging say which Generation it is?  What is the one below?  It looks basic from Bass Pro with a free cover for $129.97.

-Kurt













CAM00520.jpg



__ dr k
__ May 13, 2015


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## daricksta (May 13, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Are the Gen 1 and 2 digital?  I've seen digital displays in the front and on the back of the smokers.  Does the outside packaging say which Generation it is?  What is the one below?  It looks basic from Bass Pro with a free cover for $129.97.
> 
> -Kurt
> 
> ...


Kurt, this is the electric analog model. Stay away from it. You can tell the 1st generation smokers by the model numbers. Here's the Amazon listing for the one I own and love: 
I don't think the 40" Gen 1 is available anymore. It's been about a year since I seen any online listings for it.


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## Bearcarver (May 13, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Are the Gen 1 and 2 digital?  I've seen digital displays in the front and on the back of the smokers.  Does the outside packaging say which Generation it is?  What is the one below?  It looks basic from Bass Pro with a free cover for $129.97.
> 
> -Kurt
> 
> ...


That one isn't a Gen #1 or #2.

It's a Masterbuilt Analog smoker. I think there are a couple guys who like them.

No Digital control & no top vent.  Therm in the door.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (May 13, 2015)

OOOPS---Sorry Rick---Didn't see your reply before I posted mine!!

Bear


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## tumbleweed1 (May 13, 2015)

I have that same 200070910 as Rick & I love it so far.


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## daricksta (May 13, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> OOOPS---Sorry Rick---Didn't see your reply before I posted mine!!
> 
> Bear


The more the merrier, Bear!


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## dr k (May 13, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> That one isn't a Gen #1 or #2.
> 
> It's a Masterbuilt Analog smoker. I think there are a couple guys who like them.
> 
> ...


ok. I'll go gen 1 when I get closer to buying. I'm in no hurry. Thanks. 
-Kurt


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## Bearcarver (May 13, 2015)

Dr K said:


> ok. I'll go gen 1 when I get closer to buying. I'm in no hurry. Thanks.
> -Kurt


By then the Gen #2.5 might be the one to buy.

There aren't many reports on them yet, but the ones I've seen seem to be all good so far.

Bear


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## daricksta (May 13, 2015)

Tumbleweed1 said:


> I have that same 200070910 as Rick & I love it so far.


Tumbleweed, how long have you owned it?


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## tumbleweed1 (May 13, 2015)

I got it over the winter & have only used it a few times on ribs.

This Sunday I will be doing a pork butt.


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## dr k (May 13, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Kurt, this is the electric analog model. Stay away from it. You can tell the 1st generation smokers by the model numbers. Here's the Amazon listing for the one I own and love: http://www.amazon.com/Masterbuilt-20070910-30-Inch-Electric-Controller/dp/B00104WRCY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431553155&sr=8-1&keywords=masterbuilt+30+electric+smoker
> 
> I don't think the 40" Gen 1 is available anymore. It's been about a year since I seen any online listings for it.


Thank you for the input. My buddy that I spoke of on another thread to you that's a procrastinator and is waiting to run electricity before using his MES 30 has the controller infront and the vent on the side. I know more people favor the gen 1 so I'll use the model number. Just researching. First time on electric smokers forum so now I'll get post notifications. 
-Kurt


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## daricksta (May 14, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> By then the Gen #2.5 might be the one to buy.
> 
> There aren't many reports on them yet, but the ones I've seen seem to be all good so far.
> 
> Bear


I agree. I really enjoy my Gen 1 but the Gen 2.5 looks very well designed. But it's still too pricey for my little wallet.


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## daricksta (May 14, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Thank you for the input. My buddy that I spoke of on another thread to you that's a procrastinator and is waiting to run electricity before using his MES 30 has the controller infront and the vent on the side. I know more people favor the gen 1 so I'll use the model number. Just researching. First time on electric smokers forum so now I'll get post notifications.
> -Kurt


It's just a matter of how much you want to spend for the quality and features you get. I researched electric smokers before I bought my Masterbuilt because I didn't want a charcoal or a propane gas smoker. The MES 30 was available at a good price and the reviews were overwhelmingly positive. I had looked at the Master Forge smokers at Lowes--I understand that Masterbuilt built some or all of them for Lowes as the chain's exclusive store brand--and I looked at Little Chiefs but the MES 30 was far and away the best smoker in its price point--which varied weekly--since I wanted to keep it below $200. It remains perfect for my needs.


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## dr k (May 15, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> It's just a matter of how much you want to spend for the quality and features you get. I researched electric smokers before I bought my Masterbuilt because I didn't want a charcoal or a propane gas smoker. The MES 30 was available at a good price and the reviews were overwhelmingly positive. I had looked at the Master Forge smokers at Lowes--I understand that Masterbuilt built some or all of them for Lowes as the chain's exclusive store brand--and I looked at Little Chiefs but the MES 30 was far and away the best smoker in its price point--which varied weekly--since I wanted to keep it below $200. It remains perfect for my needs.


With our Therms, AMNS, AMNPS and AMNTS is there any reason to get any other MES than the Gen 1?  Does the Gen 1 breathe better for these smoke generators?  The Gen 2 has/had problems with smoke generation from their factory set up.  I saw a 20078715 w/o window with a front controller and top rear vent (Gen 2.5?) but couldn't see inside to see if it was like the big water pan of the Gen 1 or sloping drip tray into the smaller water pan of the Gen 2.  I wonder what features are different/same than Gen 1 & 2.  Do people substitute clean play sand covered with foil from drippings in the Gen 1 water bowl as a heat sink vs. water?  I often hear if you have a water bowl use it.  I had an ECB in the late 1990's and wasn't crazy about the humid smoke. 

-Kurt


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## Bearcarver (May 15, 2015)

Dr K said:


> With our Therms, AMNS, AMNPS and AMNTS is there any reason to get any other MES than the Gen 1?  Does the Gen 1 breathe better for these smoke generators?  The Gen 2 has/had problems with smoke generation from their factory set up.  I saw a 20078715 w/o window with a front controller and top rear vent (Gen 2.5?) but couldn't see inside to see if it was like the big water pan of the Gen 1 or sloping drip tray into the smaller water pan of the Gen 2.  I wonder what features are different/same than Gen 1 & 2.  Do people substitute clean play sand covered with foil from drippings in the Gen 1 water bowl as a heat sink vs. water?  I often hear if you have a water bowl use it.  I had an ECB in the late 1990's and wasn't crazy about the humid smoke.
> 
> -Kurt


One of the reasons the AMNPS works good in the Gen #1 is because of the Awesome place it has to put it (on the bars---Lots of air flow access).

No electric smoker can smoke as perfectly as an AMNPS.

Some use sand, bricks, or stone in their pan---I use nothing in mine, but I rarely open the door. 

The MES is so well insulated that it doesn't need any added humidity by adding water. I use my water pan, but I use it empty.

Not sure what you're asking about the differences between which MES smokers.

Bear


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## dr k (May 15, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> One of the reasons the AMNPS works good in the Gen #1 is because of the Awesome place it has to put it (on the bars---Lots of air flow access).
> 
> No electric smoker can smoke as perfectly as an AMNPS.
> 
> ...


I have a 12" AMNTS to work with.  The confusing question I asked was if the Gen 2.5 has a water pan set up like the Gen 1 or  Gen 2.  Also, where are the top vent and controller located on the Gen 2,5?  I saw a model # 20078715 and was wondering if that is the Gen 2.5.

-Kurt


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## Bearcarver (May 15, 2015)

Dr K said:


> I have a 12" AMNTS to work with.  The confusing question I asked was if the Gen 2.5 has a water pan set up like the Gen 1 or  Gen 2.  Also, where are the top vent and controller located on the Gen 2,5?  I saw a model # 20078715 and was wondering if that is the Gen 2.5.
> 
> -Kurt


The 2.5 has a big water pan more like the one in the Gen #1, except due to the objects below it, they made the bottom of the pan in a split level shape.

The top vent on the 2.5 is in the back left corner of the top.

I gave up keeping track of the hundreds of model numbers they have, however the controls on the 2.5 are up front with a sun shield built over them.

Note: There are some Gen #2 units with the top vent in the back corner, like the 2.5. They came out near the end of 2014, but I believe that was the only thing they changed on that unit.

So since they did things like that, it could be hard to tell a Gen #2 from a Gen #2.5 without opening the door.

Bear


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## dr k (May 15, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> The 2.5 has a big water pan more like the one in the Gen #1, except due to the objects below it, they made the bottom of the pan in a split level shape.
> 
> The top vent on the 2.5 is in the back left corner of the top.
> 
> ...


WOW there are lots of model numbers!  I'm up to speed on MES.  Thanks for your help! 

-Kurt


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## daricksta (May 15, 2015)

Dr K said:


> With our Therms, AMNS, AMNPS and AMNTS is there any reason to get any other MES than the Gen 1?  Does the Gen 1 breathe better for these smoke generators?  The Gen 2 has/had problems with smoke generation from their factory set up.  I saw a 20078715 w/o window with a front controller and top rear vent (Gen 2.5?) but couldn't see inside to see if it was like the big water pan of the Gen 1 or sloping drip tray into the smaller water pan of the Gen 2.  I wonder what features are different/same than Gen 1 & 2.  Do people substitute clean play sand covered with foil from drippings in the Gen 1 water bowl as a heat sink vs. water?  I often hear if you have a water bowl use it.  I had an ECB in the late 1990's and wasn't crazy about the humid smoke.
> 
> -Kurt


I think if someone wants a MES Gen 1 they're restricted to the 30"; I never see the 40" Gen 1 for sale online anymore. I'm also confused as to what the 2.5 models are. Is it this one:  or this one: ? The 30" models are identical in design to these.

Both have a large, non-sloping water pan. The 20070311 is just an updated Gen 1 with the same twin rails to place the AMNPS on. The 20070115 lacks the rails but Bear had a placement suggestion for that and so did another forum member. I've heard that the Gen 1s have the best airflow but I don't know much about these two newer models.

I don't put sand or anything in my water pan. If you want to fill it with sand start off with clean playground sand and foil over the pan. Not sure if the sand would absorb moisture over the course of a smoke or time but you'd probably want to change it out periodically if necessary. You don't want the exposed sand to catch drippings. Too messy to dispose of, I think.

I've been told it's best to keep the water pan in place for Gen 1 models but I've seen one or two guys post they've removed their with no problems. As I wrote in another comment I use mine to catch drippings. Todd Johnson maintains the water pan is way too large for the interior space of the MES 30 Gen 1 and just serves to steam the foods instead of allowing them to roast through low and slow cooking--like your ECB and the humid smoke. He first advised me to put play sand in the water pan and foil it over but it was Bear who suggested to keep it empty and covered with foil.

I can appreciate how a window would help to see what's happening inside but I've been fine without one. I can monitor how much smoke is rising out of the top vent and I've got my ET-733 to monitor smoker and meat temps. I don't need a window.


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## Bearcarver (May 15, 2015)

Rick,

This---the second one you showed is the Gen #2.5:


As for sand in the Pan, I only suggest an empty pan for guys like you & me, who don't open their door a lot.

Those who open their doors more than a couple very short times should think about putting sand in, like Todd suggested:

Bear


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## daricksta (May 15, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Rick,
> 
> This---the second one you showed is the Gen #2.5:
> 
> ...


Thanks, Bear--clear on the 2.5 now. Looks like a great smoker. And now I'm clear on how heat sinks work. I only open the door a lot at the beginning if I think the AMNPS is going out. The last time I was mistaken and kept mothering it too death so that it did keep going out until I finally left it alone. I'd forgotten what TBS looks like and when the AMNPS produced it I failed to recognize it right away.


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## tumbleweed1 (May 15, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Rick,
> 
> This---the second one you showed is the Gen #2.5:
> 
> ...


I dig that sunshield. Would have come in handy on  mine.

I may have to makes something.


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## Bearcarver (May 15, 2015)

Tumbleweed1 said:


> I dig that sunshield. Would have come in handy on  mine.
> 
> I may have to makes something.


Make a little Chicago Bears hat or visor for it???
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Bear


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## daricksta (May 16, 2015)

Tumbleweed1 said:


> I dig that sunshield. Would have come in handy on  mine.
> 
> I may have to makes something.


I also dig that sunshield, daddy-o! But I go old school and use the cupped palm of my hand as a human sunshield and it works fine! Man--it's the most!


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## tumbleweed1 (May 17, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Make a little Chicago Bears hat or visor for it???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now that sounds like an idea.


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## daricksta (May 19, 2015)

I think I'll make a little sunshield out of the smiling mug of John McLemore so I can place him right on top of my smoker with a dialogue bubble above his head saying "Dadgum That's Good!"


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## tumbleweed1 (May 19, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> I think I'll make a little sunshield out of the smiling mug of John McLemore so I can place him right on top of my smoker with a dialogue bubble above his head saying "Dadgum That's Good!"


Nice!

We'll be needing pics though.


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## daricksta (May 19, 2015)

Tumbleweed1 said:


> Nice!
> 
> We'll be needing pics though.


I'm on the job!


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## dbbyleo (May 20, 2015)

Hey guys...

I'm considering smoking meat, so I'm completely new to it, though I've done some research and gotten good feedback from this forum to know to move forward.  I saw this thread which seemed to be talking exactly my dilemma now, which is:

Gen1 or Gen2?  But theres more...

I have an opportunity at getting a used Masterbuilt 40" Sportman Elite 20073012 on Craigslist.  The listing states it's in excellent condition and the photos seems to support that. It's got the 4 racks, remote, probe, windows, etc. Asking $250, but we've settled at $175.

BUT... then I read all these "scare" about the Gen2s.  Yet still I heard (at least) one person say there's ways to overcome the issues on the Gen2, but did say what exactly those are nor have I found any topics on that exactly.  So I don't know what measures I'd have to take to over come these issues.

From what I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems like the biggest issue with Gen2s is the air flow having something to do with the side air vents versus the top (as with Gen1).  I think other issues seem more related to manufacturing, such as faulty control module and HE failure... and people having to call in for warranty issues.  

When I check out this used item, I do plan on seeing it operate to set temperatures and see it it can get up to 275 degrees.  I plan on bring an analog temp gauge and put that inside the unit to make sure the digital display is showing the right temp.  And if all that pans out... then it seems like I just have to deal with what probably inherently makes the Gen2 inferior to the Gen1 - air flow design?

I also understand that with these electric MES units, you just need to go with AMNS pellets/dust.  And after reading all that people said about it, I don't know why I would go with wood chunks (may you can elaborate on the pros/cons of chunks vs AMNS).  But if I do plan on using AMNS, is the air flow still a huge issue with the Gen2?

Or am I still missing the big (bad) picture about the Gen2??

The other side of the dilemma is that the Gen1 40" MES 20070311 are available on Amazon: $309.99 shipped.

Given all this... what's a newbie to do?

- Used 20073012 Gen2 $175

This is already more than I was planning on spending.  I'd hate to get into this and find there SO MUCH more I have to do to it to get working properly.

or

- New 20070311 Gen1 $310

Ouch... this may just break the bank.  But it is worth $135 more??


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## daricksta (May 20, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> Hey guys...
> 
> I'm considering smoking meat, so I'm completely new to it, though I've done some research and gotten good feedback from this forum to know to move forward.  I saw this thread which seemed to be talking exactly my dilemma now, which is:
> 
> ...


I'm not sure when this model came out but I'd wonder why the person is selling it now seeing as how it's only a year or two old (I think it was released in 2013). Yes, lack of adequate airflow has been an issue with the Gen 2 models but many guys use the mailbox mod to fix that. Keep in mind that, like most MES models, the temp display can be mostly fiction and can fluctuate so you'll want a good therm designed for barbecue/smoking. I own and like the Maverick ET-733.

Brand new this costs $430 so if this is a good, working unit it's a bargain at $175. There have been a lot of complaints with the Gen 2 models but a lot of people also say they've worked great. Here's a listing for this smoker on Bass Pro where you can read customer reviews. As always, some customers think it's garbage and other customers give it raves and 5 stars. Any individual unit of anything can be outstanding and any individual of anything can be a lemon. If QC at the various factories is variable then luck plays a part in getting a good or a bad product. And from what I've read QC at Masterbuilt factories in China can be really spotty.

http://www.basspro.com/Masterbuilt-...e-with-Viewing-Window/product/11090613460023/


----------



## dbbyleo (May 20, 2015)

OK... the other thing I'm trying to determine is if the airflow issues with Gen 2 still an issue if I'm using AMNS?  I thought the air flow issue was an issue with TBS when using chips, but from what Ive read, seems like AMNS seems to be the fix for that.  Can you confirm?

Yes I agree... I think this used items could be a heck of a deal, but I'd hate to find I just end hating this Gen2 model.  What's the cost of adding this "mailbox" mod?  I still have to look it up and see what exactly this is.


----------



## Bearcarver (May 20, 2015)

I think there are a couple people who have had at least what they felt was success with the Gen #2.

However IMHO even if MB has fixed the electronics problems, the Gen #2 still has a design problem in that slanted drip plate that forces heat to stack up under the plate on the highest end, which is the right side. Then it gradually trickles out around the highest point of that plate & continues up the right side of the smoker.

If I had a choice between a Gen #2 for $175, and a Gen #1 for $310 (I paid $350 for mine), I'd jump all over that Gen #1.

Bear


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## dbbyleo (May 20, 2015)

I have read that too, that with the airflow issue, there's also heat distribution issues.  I think the right-bottom side would naturally be hotter just because it's the closest to the heat source, which then I would think applies to both Gen1 and Gen2.  

I can imagine perhaps the slanted drip pan could possible make this worst as you described.  

Question:  Couldnt you just remove that slanted drip pan?  I don't get why MES introduced what seems to be a "second drip pan" anyway.


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## daricksta (May 20, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> I have read that too, that with the airflow issue, there's also heat distribution issues.  I think the right-bottom side would naturally be hotter just because it's the closest to the heat source, which then I would think applies to both Gen1 and Gen2.
> 
> I can imagine perhaps the slanted drip pan could possible make this worst as you described.
> 
> Question:  Couldnt you just remove that slanted drip pan?  I don't get why MES introduced what seems to be a "second drip pan" anyway.


That slanted drip pan is a confusing part. There's a slot over the water pan and perhaps MB thought owners would appreciate having two ways to catch grease and drippings. As for removing it, I think either Bearcarver or Todd Johnson could give advice as to if it'd be wise to do or not.

If you want to go 40-inch and kind of Gen 1 I think it'd be worth it to buy the 20070311 and here's where you can get it for $300: http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/masterbuilt-40-digital-electric-smokehouse-with-window/pid-638907


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## Bearcarver (May 21, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> I have read that too, that with the airflow issue, there's also heat distribution issues.  I think the right-bottom side would naturally be hotter just because it's the closest to the heat source, which then I would think applies to both Gen1 and Gen2.
> 
> I can imagine perhaps the slanted drip pan could possible make this worst as you described.
> 
> Question:  Couldnt you just remove that slanted drip pan?  I don't get why MES introduced what seems to be a "second drip pan" anyway.


You're right about the right side being hotter on both of them, but the slanted drip pan does make that worse.
That little pan hanging in the slanted drip plate is a Water Pan. The slanted drip plate is supposed to catch drips & let them run down the plate to the water pan. The big water pan in the Gen #1 works much better, and doesn't interfere with the air or heat flow. This is why I suggested they go back to the old way with the Gen 2.5. The only bad thing there was with the Gen #1 is the top vent being on the same side as the heating element, which is why I was always in favor of changing that to the back left corner for 6 years, which is what they have also done with the Gen 2.5.

As far as removing that drip pan, I wouldn't do that unless I had the right kind of thing to replace it with, like MB did with the water pan they put in the Gen 2.5, making it more like the Gen #1.

They both have a big drip pan on the floor which doesn't hurt anything----Just makes it easier to keep the floor clean.

Bear


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## daricksta (May 21, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> You're right about the right side being hotter on both of them, but the slanted drip pan does make that worse.
> That little pan hanging in the slanted drip plate is a Water Pan. The slanted drip plate is supposed to catch drips & let them run down the plate to the water pan. The big water pan in the Gen #1 works much better, and doesn't interfere with the air or heat flow. This is why I suggested they go back to the old way with the Gen 2.5. The only bad thing there was with the Gen #1 is the top vent being on the same side as the heating element, which is why I was always in favor of changing that to the back left corner for 6 years, which is what they have also done with the Gen 2.5.
> 
> As far as removing that drip pan, I wouldn't do that unless I had the right kind of thing to replace it with, like MB did with the water pan they put in the Gen 2.5, making it more like the Gen #1.
> ...


So you're saying that with the top vent on the left side and the heating element on the right side, the heat would be drawn across and up the inside of the smoker and be more evenly distributed? Is this the case with the Gen 2.5?


----------



## Bearcarver (May 21, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> So you're saying that with the top vent on the left side and the heating element on the right side, the heat would be drawn across and up the inside of the smoker and be more evenly distributed? Is this the case with the Gen 2.5?


Yes & Yes.

In order to get from bottom right to top left, the heat has to cross the inside of the smoker, instead of shooting straight up & out the vent on the right.

This is similar to what my deflector plate in my Gen #1 does, only built in.

I'm sure if I wanted to spend the time, I could find replies from 3, 4, and 5 years ago where I said a good thing to do would be to move the top vent to the left side, but I didn't want to drill big holes in my smoker.

Bear


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## daricksta (May 21, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Yes & Yes.
> 
> In order to get from bottom right to top left, the heat has to cross the inside of the smoker, instead of shooting straight up & out the vent on the right.
> 
> ...


Wow--I actually understood the concept! But having said that, remember that the last time I smoked my ET-733 showed the hot side shifted from the right side to the left about 2/3rds through.

I fully agree. I didn't buy my smoker just to drill holes in it. On Memorial Day I'll be using it as it came from the factory along with the AMNPS to smoke a 4 lb. brisket that has both the point and the flat. Plan to make my first Burnt Ends!


----------



## Bearcarver (May 21, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Wow--I actually understood the concept! But having said that, remember that the last time I smoked my ET-733 showed the hot side shifted from the right side to the left about 2/3rds through.
> 
> I fully agree. I didn't buy my smoker just to drill holes in it. On Memorial Day I'll be using it as it came from the factory along with the AMNPS to smoke a 4 lb. brisket that has both the point and the flat. Plan to make my first Burnt Ends!


Yup, later in the smoke that often happens, and I have to adjust my deflector sometimes. However sometimes it's because once the meat gets hot, it acts as a Heat Sink.

Wow!!

A 4 pound Full Packer!!!  I heard about things like that, but was never lucky enough to find one.  That'd be Awesome!!

Bear


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## daricksta (May 21, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Yup, later in the smoke that often happens, and I have to adjust my deflector sometimes. However sometimes it's because once the meat gets hot, it acts as a Heat Sinc.
> 
> Wow!!
> 
> ...


That's just the half of it--literally. Well, almost. Bought it at Costco and I think it was originally a 7-8 pounder. Cut off about 3-4 pounds to give to the wife for a slow cooker recipe. The remainder will fit perfectly on my MES 30 rack!

Typically all Costco beef briskets contain both the point and the flat.

I never thought of meat as a heat sink but it makes sense.


----------



## daricksta (May 22, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Are the Gen 1 and 2 digital?  I've seen digital displays in the front and on the back of the smokers.  Does the outside packaging say which Generation it is?  What is the one below?  It looks basic from Bass Pro with a free cover for $129.97.
> 
> -Kurt
> 
> ...


Here's an outstanding deal on a MES 40. It's an updated Gen 1:


----------



## Bearcarver (May 22, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Here's an outstanding deal on a MES 40. It's an updated Gen 1:


That's the Gen #1 I have for 5 years.

Great Smoker!!

I paid $349.99 5 years ago!!

Bear


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## dbbyleo (May 22, 2015)

Wow... this unit was $309.99 just last week and now its $273.  That's making the used Gen2 ($175) less and less attractive.

Anyway, going back to the slanted drip pan... why shouldn't I remove it?   Is the water pan (in the Gen1 and 2.5) intended to catch drips?  Because from what I see on pictures, the water pan in the Gen1s is oval.  Without the water or drip pan, would the drips just fall to the bottom drip pan anyway.  The only thing I see being an issue is drip could then fall on the chip tray.  But then what about the Gen1... with the water pan being oval, I dont see how that protects the chip tray either. 

Anyway... seems like this slanted drip pan seems to be the only hang-up or issue left with the Gen2.  Just trying to understand the issue would be if I removed it all together.


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## Bearcarver (May 22, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> Wow... this unit was $309.99 just last week and now its $273.  That's making the used Gen2 ($175) less and less attractive.
> 
> Anyway, going back to the slanted drip pan... why shouldn't I remove it?   Is the water pan (in the Gen1 and 2.5) intended to catch drips?  Because from what I see on pictures, the water pan in the Gen1s is oval.  Without the water or drip pan, would the drips just fall to the bottom drip pan anyway.  The only thing I see being an issue is drip could then fall on the chip tray.  But then what about the Gen1... with the water pan being oval, I dont see how that protects the chip tray either.
> 
> Anyway... seems like this slanted drip pan seems to be the only hang-up or issue left with the Gen2.  Just trying to understand the issue would be if I removed it all together.


Like I said, if you can make something fit in there, like the big water pan the Gen #1 has, you could take it out, but the side vent isn't a good thing either.

If you just remove the slanted drip plate there will be too much direct heat on the food, especially the bottom 2 positions. Maybe even higher up.

Also the drippings would be landing on the super hot chip burner cover instead of in a water pan. Why not just get a Gen #1 or #2.5??

Bear


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## dbbyleo (May 22, 2015)

I know ... with the gen1 now being $273... I'm really tempted to just go for that (than the used Gen2 for $175).

Ok so this a little tangent but I need to know if I go with amns pellets or dust, do I need that amns tray as well or do the pellets and dust just go into the MES chip tray. Just trying to figure out all the cost I'm looking at if I do decide to pull the trigger on the gen 1 on amazon. 

Lastly, how much pellet or dust do I need to begin with.  Amns pounds per hour estimates.. Just some touch estimates so I know how much to buy and be good for my first smoke.


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## Bearcarver (May 22, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> I know ... with the gen1 now being $273... I'm really tempted to just go for that (than the used Gen2 for $175).
> 
> Ok so this a little tangent but I need to know if I go with amns pellets or dust, do I need that amns tray as well or do the pellets and dust just go into the MES chip tray. Just trying to figure out all the cost I'm looking at if I do decide to pull the trigger on the gen 1 on amazon.
> 
> Lastly, how much pellet or dust do I need to begin with. Amns pounds per hour estimates.. Just some touch estimates so I know how much to buy and be good for my first smoke.


LOL---Or you can get the Gen #2 and maybe end up kicking your own butt for not listening to the reviews & comments on this forum.

You need the AMNPS for pellets & dust, as long as you aren't at a high altitude. If you put the area you live in your Profile we would know better how to help you.

A full AMNPS of Pellets will get you a perfect continuous, constant smoke for 10 to 12 consecutive hours. I never weighed how much that is, but Todd or some other guys can tell you. It won't be pounds per hour, but quite a few hours per pound. 

Bear


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## dbbyleo (May 23, 2015)

Thanks Bear.  I'm in Colorado... in the city, not in the high country, so roughly "mile high."  I've also updated my profile to show my location. Thanks for the tip!

I realized amns isn't just replacing wood chips with pellets or dust, you actually use a whole "different system."  I get how it works now after reading up on amns websites. 

From what I read 1 lb should burn for about 11 hours. I read about how to start the burn and what things to do to ensure it keeps burning (pulling out loader and chip tray for added ventilation etc).

So you mentioned something about high altitude, which that has me curious if theres added considerations I should have living in the Denver area. 

With Gen 1, I asume you place the amnps somewhere under the water pan to keep protected from drips, to the left of the heat source.

Lastly, I'm just going to go for the new gen1 on Amazon and forgo the used gen2. You're right, I don't want to regret the gen2, I'll get a new smoker and have some peace of mind with the 90 warranty. 

So... on another slight tangent... I'd like to know what other bare essential things I need to have before I even start my first smoke.  So far I have...

1. Mes 40 (my choice of smoker)
2. Amnps tray
3. Amns pellets (I'll have to look up some recipes and see which kind I need for what I want to smoke)
4. Propane Torch (I have a MAP gas torch... used in sweating copper pipes.  Is this too hot?  If so, I have regular propane gas I can use with the torch)

... apart from recipe ingredients I'll need for the particular smoke I wanna do, are there any other "equipment" I need in order to proper do my first smoke?


----------



## Bearcarver (May 23, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> Thanks Bear. I'm in Colorado... in the city, not in the high country, so roughly "mile high." I've also updated my profile to show my location. Thanks for the tip!
> 
> I realized amns isn't just replacing wood chips with pellets or dust, you actually use a whole "different system." I get how it works now after reading up on amns websites.
> 
> ...


The first thing you should do is talk to Todd Johnson (Owner of Amazing Smokers), and ask him if maybe since you're a mile high, maybe you should get a Tube Smoker instead of the AMNPS. Todd knows more about that than anyone else.

Probably hard to keep an AMNPS smoking at that Altitude.

I use Hickory for everything, but that's just me.

I don't know much about how hot Map Gas gets. I just use Propane for lighting pellets & Butane for lighting Dust.

Other things??

Digital wireless Therms, like Maverick ET-732

Foil Pans, Foil

This might help some:

Just click on *"Bear's Step by Steps"*.

Bear


----------



## dr k (May 23, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> The first thing you should do is talk to Todd Johnson (Owner of Amazing Smokers), and ask him if maybe since you're a mile high, maybe you should get a Tube Smoker instead of the AMNPS. Todd knows more about that than anyone else.
> 
> Probably hard to keep an AMNPS smoking at that Altitude.
> 
> ...


When you pull out the chip loader an inch or so for ventilation do you leave it upside down in the dump position?   Can you just remove the chip pan or slide it out an inch?  Do you slide out the drip pan as well?

-Kurt


----------



## dr k (May 23, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Here's an outstanding deal on a MES 40. It's an updated Gen 1:


Wow!  I sent this to my buddy with the Gen 2 he still needs to plug in for the first time.  With my 600 sq. inch charcoal grill and charcoal offset and Kamado smokers, I just don't have the space until one of the other smokers falls apart.  The offset is rusting pretty badly but the gauge of steel is heavy.  I would get it as an additional oven if it went up another 100*F to 375*F.  Hell I don't know I'm still on the fence.  Thanks for the link.  I have it saved.

-Kurt


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## dr k (May 23, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Here's an outstanding deal on a MES 40. It's an updated Gen 1:


Did you say that you don't get a smoke ring with the MES?

-Kurt


----------



## Bearcarver (May 23, 2015)

Dr K said:


> When you pull out the chip loader an inch or so for ventilation do you leave it upside down in the dump position?   Can you just remove the chip pan or slide it out an inch?  Do you slide out the drip pan as well?
> 
> -Kurt


I never touch my chip dumper or chip drawer. My AMNPS works Great in my MES 40 Gen #1 without playing any games.

Others do various things combined or individually, including turning their chip dumper 180°, pulling it part way out, and pulling the chip drawer an inch or so out.

I can't tell you how good those things work, because I never tried them.

Bear


----------



## daricksta (May 23, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> That's the Gen #1 I have for 5 years.
> 
> Great Smoker!!
> 
> ...


If I'd known about this smoker and had had the money 5 years ago this is the one I would have bought. But if this model is 5 years old or so, how old are the plain black MES 30 & 40 Gen 1 models with the original controller?


----------



## Bearcarver (May 23, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> If I'd known about this smoker and had had the money 5 years ago this is the one I would have bought. But if this model is 5 years old or so, how old are the plain black MES 30 & 40 Gen 1 models with the original controller?


I got my MES 30 Gen #1 a year earlier, and it had the older straight edged control box. I think my MES 40 was one of the first ones with the remote control.

It was love at first sight.

Bear


----------



## daricksta (May 23, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Wow!  I sent this to my buddy with the Gen 2 he still needs to plug in for the first time.  With my 600 sq. inch charcoal grill and charcoal offset and Kamado smokers, I just don't have the space until one of the other smokers falls apart.  The offset is rusting pretty badly but the gauge of steel is heavy.  I would get it as an additional oven if it went up another 100*F to 375*F.  Hell I don't know I'm still on the fence.  Thanks for the link.  I have it saved.
> 
> -Kurt


You're welcome, Kurt. But you know that Amazon is like Costco: sometimes you have to jump on a great deal because the next time you shop there it's gone. But if you're looking for an electric smoker oven that goes up to 375° I don't think you'll find one. Cookshacks only go up to 300°F.

Every person who has an offset smoker that I've talked to has rust problems. That's why I chose an electric smoker I could keep in my garage.


----------



## daricksta (May 23, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Did you say that you don't get a smoke ring with the MES?
> 
> -Kurt


That's correct and here's why: http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html

Theoretically if you burn a charcoal briquette in the wood chip burner that _could _give a smoke ring due to the carbon monoxide and nitric oxide produced. But to that you'd also have to crank the cooking temp up to max at 275° F.

From the article I linked to: "Don't use electric smokers. That is partially because the wood smolders at a low temp in electrics, and high temps are required to create the NO and CO. Experts at cooking in electric smokers sometimes add a charcoal briquet as well as wood to create the correct atmospheric conditions for a smoke ring. Some of these briquets actually contain powdered sodium nitrates, which enhance ring formation. But in general, a vigorous charcoal or wood fire at just the right temperature, produces the deepest ring and the best meat."


----------



## daricksta (May 23, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> I got my MES 30 Gen #1 a year earlier, and it had the older straight edged control box. I think my MES 40 was one of the first ones with the remote control.
> 
> It was love at first sight.
> 
> Bear


So my having a smoking affair with your MES 40 would be out of the question?


----------



## dr k (May 23, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> I never touch my chip dumper or chip drawer. My AMNPS works Great in my MES 40 Gen #1 without playing any games.
> 
> Others do various things combined or individually, including turning their chip dumper 180°, pulling it part way out, and pulling the chip drawer an inch or so out.
> 
> ...


I took Rick's advice and ordered the MES 40" Gen 1 from the link he put up.  I have the 12" AMNTS for up to 6hrs. of smoke.  I'll see if I need to get the AMNPS for longer smokes down the road.  I'll do nothing other than put the tube smoker on the rails and see how it goes.  Thanks for all the help.

-Kurt


----------



## dr k (May 23, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You're welcome, Kurt. But you know that Amazon is like Costco: sometimes you have to jump on a great deal because the next time you shop there it's gone. But if you're looking for an electric smoker oven that goes up to 375° I don't think you'll find one. Cookshacks only go up to 300°F.
> 
> Every person who has an offset smoker that I've talked to has rust problems. That's why I chose an electric smoker I could keep in my garage.


Ok, I freaked out after a quick loop through Google on MES's and had to jump on your Amazon find.  The offset is going to my girlfriend's and the MES 40" from your link will be here before June 2nd.  I'm not familiar with the $17.11 estimated tax but had $19 in Discover cash back that covered it.  Thanks for all your help.

-Kurt


----------



## dbbyleo (May 23, 2015)

Haha!  I put my order in as well!  
Thanks for the heads up on the altitude thing.  After doing some more reading, it does appear the tray was not designed for altitude >5000 feet. I'm definitely gonna go with the tube, though I'm still trying to figured out if I should do the 12" or 18".  Thoughts?


----------



## dr k (May 23, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> Haha!  I put my order in as well!
> Thanks for the heads up on the altitude thing.  After doing some more reading, it does appear the tray was not designed for altitude >5000 feet. I'm definitely gonna go with the tube, though I'm still trying to figured out if I should do the 12" or 18".  Thoughts?


Did you have the $17 estimated tax thing? I never saw anything like that before when ordering from  Amazon. I put a cup and a quarter of pellets in the 12 " tube smoker held it side ways and shaked it till it's level all the way across, which is a little over half way filed standing on end for over 4 hrs of TBS when cold smoking. The diameter is plenty big to play around with a quarter cup increments. The tube smoker seems easier fo me to light without the open end cap just the bottom cap. Gelled alcohol seems to be very easy to start the pellets.
-Kurt


----------



## dbbyleo (May 23, 2015)

No, I didn't see the $17 est tax thing. I have Prime, so I don't know if that makes a difference - shouldn't though, that only helps me with shipping etc. 

Anyway I had to YouTube these tubes in action to understand, I see now how it works.  I liked the tray since it seems to hold a much longer burn time - up to 11 hours vs the 12" tubes 4 hours.

I assume if I need to smoke for more than 4 hours, I would just have to pull out the tube, refill it, torch/start it up, and just put it back in the smoker?


----------



## Bearcarver (May 24, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> No, I didn't see the $17 est tax thing. I have Prime, so I don't know if that makes a difference - shouldn't though, that only helps me with shipping etc.
> 
> Anyway I had to YouTube these tubes in action to understand, I see now how it works. I liked the tray since it seems to hold a much longer burn time - up to 11 hours vs the 12" tubes 4 hours.
> 
> I assume if I need to smoke for more than 4 hours, I would just have to pull out the tube, refill it, torch/start it up, and just put it back in the smoker?


I found my Tube to put out too much smoke for my MES---I think because I'm at low altitude, which is one of the reasons the AMNPS works so good in my MES.

So I would say high altitude--Get the Tube-----Low altitude get the AMNPS.

But as to the question of what size Tube----I would say if it's a tube you're going to get, the 12" tube will give you more options of where you can put it in the smoker.

Bear


----------



## dr k (May 24, 2015)

dbbyleo said:


> No, I didn't see the $17 est tax thing. I have Prime, so I don't know if that makes a difference - shouldn't though, that only helps me with shipping etc.
> 
> Anyway I had to YouTube these tubes in action to understand, I see now how it works.  I liked the tray since it seems to hold a much longer burn time - up to 11 hours vs the 12" tubes 4 hours.
> 
> I assume if I need to smoke for more than 4 hours, I would just have to pull out the tube, refill it, torch/start it up, and just put it back in the smoker?


 Illinois is getting a Chicago area Amazon distribution center so we Illinoisians now get hit with a 6.25% state sales tax when buying from Amazon since February.  
-Kurt


----------



## dr k (May 24, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> That's correct and here's why: http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html
> 
> Theoretically if you burn a charcoal briquette in the wood chip burner that _could _give a smoke ring due to the carbon monoxide and nitric oxide produced. But to that you'd also have to crank the cooking temp up to max at 275° F.
> 
> From the article I linked to: "Don't use electric smokers. That is partially because the wood smolders at a low temp in electrics, and high temps are required to create the NO and CO. Experts at cooking in electric smokers sometimes add a charcoal briquet as well as wood to create the correct atmospheric conditions for a smoke ring. Some of these briquets actually contain powdered sodium nitrates, which enhance ring formation. But in general, a vigorous charcoal or wood fire at just the right temperature, produces the deepest ring and the best meat."


I'm familiar with Myoglobin from Pop's article on "Changing colors of meats."  I found it arrowing all the way down past the reply box to the bottom of any forum in the brown boxed area under new articles.  Pretty cool.  So it makes a lot of sense about gases instead of smoke particles to form/lock in the pink ring till 170*F.  I need a bigger rib smoker/outdoor finishing oven/resting vessel/over night piece of mind smoking option/mobile smoker which justified this purchase.  I'm relocating the rusted 15+ year old offset I'll use, to another home and gaining a more versatile tool I'll be using without smoke as well. 

-Kurt


----------



## daricksta (May 24, 2015)

Dr K said:


> I took Rick's advice and ordered the MES 40" Gen 1 from the link he put up.  I have the 12" AMNTS for up to 6hrs. of smoke.  I'll see if I need to get the AMNPS for longer smokes down the road.  I'll do nothing other than put the tube smoker on the rails and see how it goes.  Thanks for all the help.
> 
> -Kurt


Kurt, I think you'll love your MES 40. I've got my MES 30 Gen 1 going right now smoking both a brisket point and flat. I'm using oak wood pellets I bought from Todd. I used gelled alcohol to fire up the AMNPS and it worked beautifully. Easiest time I ever had lighting the AMNPS and keeping it lit.

The AMNTS should work fine in the MES 40.


----------



## daricksta (May 24, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Ok, I freaked out after a quick loop through Google on MES's and had to jump on your Amazon find.  The offset is going to my girlfriend's and the MES 40" from your link will be here before June 2nd.  I'm not familiar with the $17.11 estimated tax but had $19 in Discover cash back that covered it.  Thanks for all your help.
> 
> -Kurt


Glad I could be of help. Used to be that Amazon didn't charge sales tax but then states started passing laws enabling them to collect sales taxes for online out-of-state purchases. Sometimes I pay sales tax online, sometimes I don't, depends on the seller and the site.

I think @Bearcarver has this smoker. Is this correct, Bear? It's sure the one I'd buy if I had the money. I might think about the new MES 40 model even though I don't need Bluetooth. But that model is way too rich for my wallet and it doesn't have a track record yet.


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## daricksta (May 24, 2015)

Dr K said:


> I'm familiar with Myoglobin from Pop's article on "Changing colors of meats."  I found it arrowing all the way down past the reply box to the bottom of any forum in the brown boxed area under new articles.  Pretty cool.  So it makes a lot of sense about gases instead of smoke particles to form/lock in the pink ring till 170*F.  I need a bigger rib smoker/outdoor finishing oven/resting vessel/over night piece of mind smoking option/mobile smoker which justified this purchase.  I'm relocating the rusted 15+ year old offset I'll use, to another home and gaining a more versatile tool I'll be using without smoke as well.
> 
> -Kurt


What's "Pop's article? Do you have a link? As for your "bigger rib smoker/outdoor finishing oven/resting vessel/over night piece of mind smoking option/mobile smoker", how are you on inventing things? If you could develop this concept into an affordable smoker complex I'd buy it!

So, I'm using my MES 30 Gen 1 today to smoke a brisket as I wrote in another comment in this thread. The only issue I'm having is that I want a 225°F set point but according to my ET-733 the temp has gotten as high as 243° even though I'd reduced the MES controller temp down to 220°. I just opened the MES door and moved the BARBECUE probe (which I had on the right rear of the 3rd rack near where the Hi-Temp Cutoff Switch Sensor is located) forward and more towards the middle. The temp dropped to 192° but is now up to about 225 after setting the MES controller at 217°F.


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## Bearcarver (May 24, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Glad I could be of help. Used to be that Amazon didn't charge sales tax but then states started passing laws enabling them to collect sales taxes for online out-of-state purchases. Sometimes I pay sales tax online, sometimes I don't, depends on the seller and the site.
> 
> *I think @Bearcarver has this smoker. Is this correct, Bear? *It's sure the one I'd buy if I had the money. I might think about the new MES 40 model even though I don't need Bluetooth. But that model is way too rich for my wallet and it doesn't have a track record yet.


My MES 40 Gen #1 model number ends in "311".

Here it is:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/99899/mes-40-with-remote-christmas-present

Bear


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## daricksta (May 24, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> My MES 40 Gen #1 model number ends in "311".
> 
> Here it is:
> 
> ...


Model numbers? I don't need no stinkin' model numbers. 

You have the MES 40 of my dreams, Bear. But a plug for my MES 30 Gen 1. I have a set point of 225° and according to my ET-733 the controller is rock solid at 225-228° which is more than acceptable. I love this smoker.


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## dr k (May 26, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> What's "Pop's article? Do you have a link? As for your "bigger rib smoker/outdoor finishing oven/resting vessel/over night piece of mind smoking option/mobile smoker", how are you on inventing things? If you could develop this concept into an affordable smoker complex I'd buy it!
> 
> So, I'm using my MES 30 Gen 1 today to smoke a brisket as I wrote in another comment in this thread. The only issue I'm having is that I want a 225°F set point but according to my ET-733 the temp has gotten as high as 243° even though I'd reduced the MES controller temp down to 220°. I just opened the MES door and moved the BARBECUE probe (which I had on the right rear of the 3rd rack near where the Hi-Temp Cutoff Switch Sensor is located) forward and more towards the middle. The temp dropped to 192° but is now up to about 225 after setting the MES controller at 217°F.


This is the Link to Pop's Changing colors of meat:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/changing-colors-of-meats

The 40" MES Gen 1 I ordered is the bigger rib smoker/outdoor finishing oven/resting vessel/over night piece of mind smoking option/mobile smoker/reverse sear oven. These other applications influenced me to make this purchase.  Now I won't heat up the kitchen as much in the summer.  This will work well for reverse searing steaks with or without smoke.  Now I can set the MES to 170*F and slowly get the steaks to an IT of 110*F or so before searing.  Raw meat at refrigerator temperature to room temp contracts (toughens) so much more when it's hit with searing heat compared to it being closer to the finished temperature and then searing.  Also, meat needs to be dry for the best sear and so it doesn't steam which will cook it.  That's why I like to Kosher salt and season steaks and let sit an hour an inch to draw out the myoglobin then rinse really well and dry.  It really loosens up those tight wad stuck up muscle fibers so they hold on to the interior fat when it's melting.  When people see the pool of Myowater they think it's not going to be juicy but there's plenty of fat that will melt.  After all what does water taste like?  Nothing. So your getting a more beefier flavor.  I agree with what another SMF member said, that all meat can handle a little pellicle before cooking.

-Kurt


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## daricksta (May 26, 2015)

Dr K said:


> This is the Link to Pop's Changing colors of meat:
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/changing-colors-of-meats
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. Not being of the scientific mind-type my eyes glazed over so I bookmarked the page to read later. With that type of article I scan through it to pick out the readily-assimilated info.

I keep forgetting to fully salt the steaks even though I learned that technique in a BBQ class. I'll remember it from now on because it works exactly as you described. But I recall the reason I stopped doing it long ago was because I forgot the rinsing off the salt part. No wonder my wife would complain the steaks were a bit salty...

And you're correct about steak being able to handle a pellicle. But about your reverse sear procedure--I'm not familiar with it. I see plenty of chefs on TV salt their steaks and keep them at room temp for about 30-60 minutes, rinse them off, and then plop them into a cast iron or stainless steel skillet for a quick sear before finishing it in an oven. I also hadn't read anything on letting them sit under salt for an hour an inch; I thought it was just 30-60 minutes period regardless of thickness because you're primarily drawing moisture from the surface of the meat to dry it out. But I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm no expert on this. The next time I grill ribeyes I'll try out what I know and give a full report.

Oh, as I've written I'd like to have a MES 40 someday but my little 30-incher performed like a champ on Sunday when I smoked a brisket--both the point and the flat.


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## dr k (May 26, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Thanks for the link. Not being of the scientific mind-type my eyes glazed over so I bookmarked the page to read later. With that type of article I scan through it to pick out the readily-assimilated info.
> 
> I keep forgetting to fully salt the steaks even though I learned that technique in a BBQ class. I'll remember it from now on because it works exactly as you described. But I recall the reason I stopped doing it long ago was because I forgot the rinsing off the salt part. No wonder my wife would complain the steaks were a bit salty...
> 
> ...


The salt technique is great if you have the time.  Same with the reverse sear method.  Some chefs sous vide steaks in a precision water bath.  Vacuum seal a steak put it in a water bath at 125*F for an hour till the whole steak is rare at 125*F throughout.  Cut open the bag and sear each side for a minute or so till you've achieved the doneness you want.  The steak will never cook past the water bath temp while it's in there and it's basically a holding tank up to fours before having to be seared/served.  When you cut into the steak you'll see the sear and the entire center of the steak will be the doneness of your choice.  If you sear first, the cut meat shows the sear then well, medium well, medium, then the biggest part of the center is medium rare then medium, medium well, well, and the sear on the other side.  Reverse searing is the closest to Sous Vide to get more of your steak the doneness you like.  The lower the temp while it's in the oven or smoker the better.  With the salt/rest method the Kosher salt pulls up Myowater and dissolves then some flows back into the meat carrying the seasoning with it.  The salt does it's magic inside the meat relaxing muscle fibers, tenderizing it and allowing the fibers to trap melted fat. After rinsing you distinctly smell the onion powder side vs. the garlic powder side (if that's the seasoning you use.)  I paper towel dry it, sprinkle with pepper and onto the grill. It's all about how much time you have so I mostly cook like most everyone else on a grill, high heat for four minutes or so before flipping the steak.  Reverse searing is a treat   

-Kurt


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## dr k (May 26, 2015)

40" MES GEN 1 should be here Friday.  Hopefully most everything is preassembled. 

-Kurt


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## daricksta (May 26, 2015)

Dr K said:


> I'm familiar with Myoglobin from Pop's article on "Changing colors of meats."  I found it arrowing all the way down past the reply box to the bottom of any forum in the brown boxed area under new articles.  Pretty cool.  So it makes a lot of sense about gases instead of smoke particles to form/lock in the pink ring till 170*F.  I need a bigger rib smoker/outdoor finishing oven/resting vessel/over night piece of mind smoking option/mobile smoker which justified this purchase.  I'm relocating the rusted 15+ year old offset I'll use, to another home and gaining a more versatile tool I'll be using without smoke as well.
> 
> -Kurt


Forgot to mention sous vide cooking.  Costco sells a couple of these online but they're a bit too expensive and would take up counter space we don't have. There's a place in Pike Place called ChefSteps. I subscribe to their e-newsletter and they're very big on sous vide. I'd rather to the reverse searing technique.


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## daricksta (May 27, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Are the Gen 1 and 2 digital?  I've seen digital displays in the front and on the back of the smokers.  Does the outside packaging say which Generation it is?  What is the one below?  It looks basic from Bass Pro with a free cover for $129.97.
> 
> -Kurt
> 
> ...


Did we go over this in another thread, Kurt? I can't believe I didn't respond at all to this post.


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## Bearcarver (May 27, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Did we go over this in another thread, Kurt? I can't believe I didn't respond at all to this post.


I thought I responded to that too, that it's an Analog. Must have been on another thread.

Bear


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## dr k (May 27, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Did we go over this in another thread, Kurt? I can't believe I didn't respond at all to this post.





Bearcarver said:


> I thought I responded to that too, that it's an Analog. Must have been on another thread.
> 
> Bear


You both responded to my original post on this thread that helped me a lot.  It was the 20th post on this thread on page one two weeks ago.  Even when I read all my subscribed posts It shows that I have unread posts that I just clear.  Mark them as a read post. 

-Kurt


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## mummel (May 27, 2015)

Good luck with your smoker!  I may have missed it, but how come the new MES BT was not an option?  Price?


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## firemandoug (May 28, 2015)

This is my first post on this forum, I think I am ready to get an MES 40 2.5 gen can you tell me the difference on these 2 links and models.
[h1]Masterbuilt 20070115 Bluetooth Smart Digital Electric Smoker, 40-Inch[/h1]
[h1]Masterbuilt Sportsman Elite 40'' Bluetooth Smart Digital Electric Smoker with Viewing Window Manufacturer model #: 20070315[/h1]
http://www.basspro.com/Masterbuilt-...moker-with-Viewing-Window/product/1408211413/

Thanks Doug


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## mummel (May 28, 2015)

Same smoker, some difference:













MES table.png



__ mummel
__ May 28, 2015


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## dr k (May 28, 2015)

Firemandoug said:


> This is my first post on this forum, I think I am ready to get an MES 40 2.5 gen can you tell me the difference on these 2 links and models.
> [h1]Masterbuilt 20070115 Bluetooth Smart Digital Electric Smoker, 40-Inch[/h1]
> [h1]Masterbuilt Sportsman Elite 40'' Bluetooth Smart Digital Electric Smoker with Viewing Window Manufacturer model #: 20070315[/h1]
> http://www.basspro.com/Masterbuilt-...moker-with-Viewing-Window/product/1408211413/
> ...


Like Mummel's post, I could only see 6 vs.4 racks.  Whatever is the best deal.  I'm only using the number of racks it takes to hold the food I'm smoking.  The 6 rack model gives more levels to choose from when using fewer racks.  Also, the top racks on both look as if there is the same amount of room so they put 2 more racks in between the top and bottom racks maybe for jerky and smaller cuts, giving it 1,462.5 sq. inches of cooking area instead of 975 on the 4 rack model.  With your handle are you using it at the Firehouse or home?

-Kurt


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## daricksta (May 28, 2015)

Dr K said:


> You both responded to my original post on this thread that helped me a lot.  It was the 20th post on this thread on page one two weeks ago.  Even when I read all my subscribed posts It shows that I have unread posts that I just clear.  Mark them as a read post.
> 
> -Kurt


I hate when I reply to a post before looking at the post date.


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## dr k (May 28, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> I hate when I reply to a post before looking at the post date.


$400 is now the lowest price for the 40" MES Gen 1on the link you gave us. 
-Kurt


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## daricksta (May 28, 2015)

Dr K said:


> $400 is now the lowest price for the 40" MES Gen 1on the link you gave us.
> -Kurt


Uh oh. I hope that's higher than what you paid. When I bought my MES 30 Gen 1, I knowingly paid a price that was near the top of the roller coaster because I didn't want to wait any longer.


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## dr k (May 28, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Uh oh. I hope that's higher than what you paid. When I bought my MES 30 Gen 1, I knowingly paid a price that was near the top of the roller coaster because I didn't want to wait any longer.


We got the price you posted at $273.68. It should be here tomorrow. That was a close call. :yahoo:
-Kurt


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## dbbyleo (May 28, 2015)

Me too!  $273.  Good grief... so glad we jumped on that when we did!  I can't believe its back up to $399.95 today.  I feel soooo much better about this buy!


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## firemandoug (May 28, 2015)

Home I retired from the department 2 years ago after an on the job injury.

Just got back from Bass Pro picked up the Masterbuilt[emoji]8482[/emoji] Sportsman Elite[emoji]174[/emoji] 40" Bluetooth[emoji]174[/emoji] Smart Digital Electric Smoker for $429.99 less 10% also picked up the Cold Smoker Attachment.

I think I am going to also buy 1 of the AMNPS.


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## daricksta (May 29, 2015)

Kurt and dbbyleo, I'm glad I was able to help you find a bargain on what is undoubtedly a great smoker.


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## ewkid (May 31, 2015)

Greetings.  I am new to smoking and I am considering the following Gen1 smokers.

20070910 30" no window from Amazon

20070211 30" window from Amazon

20071011 30" window from Home Depot.

Besides the model number I can't tell any difference between the Amazon and Home Depot units.

I see the main advantage of the window units are the window, wheels, remote control, and meat thermometer.

If I go with the no window model what is a meat thermometer that is recommended?

I also plan to purchase an AMNPS which everyone seems to love.


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## mummel (Jun 1, 2015)

Most people here recommend the 40incher.  What's your budget?


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## dbbyleo (Jun 2, 2015)

The 40" cover for MES is down to $25 (from $35 previously) on Amazon.  Just FYI.


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