# Jerky ? What temp.



## ritamcd (Apr 13, 2012)

I usually go with 160 in my dehydrator but its seeming to get TOO dried out ...
Sooo My question .. what temp do you usually use to dehydrate your jerky ? I am gonna try 150 and see if that does it slow enough to where it will not be crumbly


----------



## alelover (Apr 13, 2012)

I start about 120 in the smoker for a couple hours then 135 - 140 for a couple and the last hour at 165ish. Now that I have a dehydrator I am going to do the last half in it. Haven't tried it yet.


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 13, 2012)

Good Luck!!  .. I have about 20lbs going right now .. I will try and jack it up during the last hour or so and knock it down for a while .. thanks

I couldn't live without my dehydrator ..


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 13, 2012)

Not sure if you're curing or not, so here's some things to remember:

If you cured the meat, you can go pretty low for starting out and slow the drying way down, as alelover mentioned. If not cured, I would advise you follow a proven process to kill the critters off before the meat dries. USDA recommends heating the meat in the marinade to 160* prior to drying, and this is actually cooking it before you dry it. Bacteria can get heat resistant in dryer environments, so if you wait to heat it up in a dehydrator or smoker, you may not kill them.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FactSheets/Jerky_and_Food_Safety/index.asp

It's not really jerky anymore at that point, IMHO...it's a flavor, texture and color issue for me, but it is a safe prep method if you do not cure.

I prefer cured so I can take all day to dry the jerky and get the texture and level of dryness I want. Towards the end of drying, I remove part of the batch while leaving in what isn't ready. Getting all pieces dried to your liking is your final step in assuring you get what you want for your efforts, so that's where being around to keep an eye on things is important. I never got around to grabbing a dehydrator, so drying in the smoker may or may not require more attention, but the smoker can do the job of two pieces of equipment. Either way, you need to get them out before they're over-dried.

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 13, 2012)

I have never done this in the 20 years I have been making jerky .. suppose salt is a cure to some point but I didn't use and never have used Cure ..

I was trying to fallow some sort of guidelines when I would keep it at 160 but .. well it just dries the outside too fast ..


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 13, 2012)

Yeah, I wasn't sure about your process, so I felt inclined to mention it. It is a risk without pre-dry pasteurization of the marinate/meat, so I just wanted to make sure you understood what it can lead to so you make informed decisions.

Salt, to my knowledge, won't kill bacteria like properly used cure additives, but will instead inhibit their growth until conditions begin to return to the type of environment they thrive in.

160* start-up for drying would be cause for the surface to dry very quickly, while the interior is lagging behind. If I recall, the higher temp (160*+) start for drying is an acceptable form of pasteurization, but product quality issues can result, as it seems you have been experiencing. My experiences seem to indicate that once the surface has skinned over, it really is difficult to determine the level of dryness, due to the texture of the surface being toughened-up, and higher start-up temps for drying is how this happens. I use a bend-test, along with color and shrinkage, but if the pieces have skinned over too early, it's harder to tell by texture. They may feel leathery, but if the outside is really tough, the inside can still be pretty soft. At that point, you may need to bend to the point of folding in half and see if it snaps in two or not. You probably already know this, but just in case...I've only been at the jerky scene for several years, all cured, all smoked, then dried in the smoker as well.

With cured meat, I smoke at anywhere under 100* to about 120*, then slowly increase temps after I begin to dry in the 120* range, with 160-170* max to finish them up. It may take over 12-15 hours for thick sliced, depending on humidity and ventilation of the smoker, but the R/H is typically 30-40% or less here...semi-arid. I do like to slice my whole muscle meats thicker than most, which prolongs drying time, of course, but it's the quality of the finished product that I'm really after, with the time needed to finish it being of little importance.

Some folks don't like the idea of using cure due to possible health issues, but when used correctly and eaten in moderation, there should not be any reason to be concerned, barring other health or illness factors. And for the purists, this just may be how they like to do things...I can't argue with either reason, as long as the risks and ways to avoid them are understood...then it's up to the individual to decide which route they choose to use.

Just passing info...if no cure is your thing and it works to your preference, then roll with it, but if curing could make your drying process easier or result in a better finished product with less worries, maybe give it some thought...just saying, I don't worry about mine being safe to eat, and my process yields some really nice snack food with a great chew and texture. You may have missed it, but my pepper-steak jerky (link is in my sig line) is a good example of how easy cured jerky can be, and it's thick sliced @ 3/8"...it just takes some time to dry after the smoke.

BTW, 20lbs...man, that's a nice sized jerky run! Hope all is well!

Eric


----------



## alelover (Apr 13, 2012)

I use cure and my temps are based on that. I can't add anything to what Eric said. He gotcha covered.


----------



## desertlites (Apr 13, 2012)

I always cure and around 100 here, maybe bump to 120 at the end, but that's in my smoker.


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 13, 2012)

OK well I have the cure and all that but what do I add it to ? the meat ? or the brine .. and when I measure it out would it be to t he total weight of meat and brine combined ?


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 13, 2012)

I soo don't like it when my posts get deleted lol
I also use the light test .. if I hold it up to the light and there are no dark spots its good to go ..

OK and now my cure question .. HOW 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 .. Total weight of the meat or total weight of the meat and brine ? It would make more sense to add it to the combined total weight to me


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 13, 2012)

Hickup ..


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 13, 2012)

Ah, sorry Rita, got wrapped up in other things for a while. The cure additives should be used per the weight of the trimmed and sliced (or ground) meat only, as the brine mix has water and spices which add to the weight. For a wet cure, depending on the amount of seasonings, I use 3-4oz water per pound of meat, add the seasonings and cure, mix well, then add this to the meat, and of course, coat the pieces well before tossing in the fridge. If you use a soy sauce or other wet ingredients, you may or may not want to cut some of the water out of the mix. I don't use soy, worsty sauce or other wet ingredients for jerky wet cures, at least I haven't yet. Just seasonings, Morton's Tender Quick per instructions (easier to get TQ around here) and water. If using TQ, don't use anything else containing salt, or it may be too salty, hence why I don't use worsty/soy.

If you have other cure additives, use them per instructions with recommended amount of salt.

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

I use a worst. / Soy base .. I have 6 bags of TQ sitting in my kitchen too but am nervous about the salt and the integrity of my finish product ... is say cure 1 less salty ?


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

Ohhh and thank you!! I am in no rush ...


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

OK I was just reading in the Charcuterie and it doesn't say anything about a cure.. And that the salt was the preservative in this recipe .. I am getting confused..
[h1] [/h1]


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 14, 2012)

RitaMcD said:


> OK I was just reading in the Charcuterie and it doesn't say anything about a cure.. And that the salt was the preservative in this recipe .. I am getting confused..
> [h1] [/h1]


If you're using a Charcuterie recipe, then follow it to the letter, including drying temps. If it calls for 160*, then that's what you need to use, regardless of the temptation to reduce temps for slower drying to improve texture, or whatever other reason...don't deviate from the recipe's guidelines.

If this drying temperature is causing texture issues, then all I can say is that you will have to live with that.

The alternative is to change to a recipe using a wet-cure instead of a brine/marinade. If you use cure, you have much more flexibility in drying temps.
Regarding converting your currently used recipe to a wet-cure:

I need to know, do you add additional salt to the marinade that could be omitted or reduced if using a cure mix, such as table salt or kosher salt added by weight or measure? If there isn't, it may add to the difficulty a bit, but we'll see if I can still work it up for you...I'm pretty close right now. I just want to make sure I have all the angles covered before I kick out the method for converting from your current brine/marinade to a wet-cure.
 

I am already working up most of the details for you to reformulate into a wet-cure while still keeping the same sodium content and flavor profile. It should work like a snap, and it may require you to be able to know exactly how much added salt there is, including what's in the worsty/soy sauce, and I'll tell you how to do that as well.

You may or may not be able to use TQ instead of cure #1, which uses less by measure per pound...depends on how much sodium you're using right now. I can help you run the numbers if you're not good with math...I am, so no biggy.

Come on back and let me know if you want to roll with this conversion to a wet-cure, and also, if you add additional salt over and above what the worsty/soy has, as well as if there's a seasoning blend which has salt. I don't need to know what it is, just if it has salt, which will need to be accounted for as well, but we'll figure it out.

You're it...hmm, this is kinda like _phone tag_...LOL!!!

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

Well in basic I use 1 bottle of soy 2 bottles of worchestshire ... about a cup or so of ketchup and the same of a bbq jacked up .. as for other salts No .. I think thats a lot of soy to begin with .. for the salt content

It seemed an aweful low temp. when I was reading through it course when I am trying to get the details my kindle shut off 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 ... when I get it back on I will post the details for you


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

2 1/2 lbs Lean beef  all fat removed  1 1/2 TBSP Kosher salt / their spices and dry at 90F for 16-20 hours 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Now that sounds Scary to me


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 14, 2012)

Oh, OK, don't need any other details, mainly just separate salt. That will be a bit more difficult to whittle down the sodium, if there's none added separately. Well, let me get back to my "drawing board" and see if I've got everything, then I'll be back.

What I do see right now is that you can look for low-sodium bottle products, and from there we drop some of your current sodium and replace it with what's in the cure mixes, either TQ or, if we can't drop enough salt, cure #1 would have to do.

Anyway, one last check of my document I'm working on to make sure I'm getting everything right...back in a short.

You may not think it, but I actually enjoy figuring out something like this (I used to develop massive spreadsheets for work with unthinkable amounts of number crunching going on...love that stuff)...this little project gives me a new challenge, so, I thank you for that, Rita!

Let the fun begin...LOL!!!

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

I did enough # crunching last week when business taxes were due ..  Boy do they ever suck ya dry 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Thanks Eric I really do appreciate it .. If it matters I usually use the larger Kokimon bottle or however you spell it


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 14, 2012)

Yeah, 90* drying temp without cure? I'd run from that one, or else I may be running to the porcelain goddess!

OK, here's what I came up with:

If you like the marinade recipe you're using now, and are firm in continuing with that flavor profile while maintaining a similar or identical sodium content when switching to a wet-cure, you'll need to know exactly how much salt is added per pound of meat separately (if any additional table salt or kosher salt is used) along with how much you are adding with the worsty/soy and any other products.


You need to find similar values of measurement in order to create a formulation. Proceeded as follows:

1) on the nutritional values label, find the sodium content per serving (will be listed as mg or g...hopefully not the latter) and the serving size (will be listed as tsp or Tbsp) on the labels of your worsty/soy/ketchup/Bbq sauce bottles and any spice blends (these usually have added sodium) you are using. Total these amounts;

2) convert this measurement from mg/serving into mg/lb, by multiplying by the amount you add to the marinade per lb of meat;

3) convert the above into measure by volume per the conversion table below (unless you use a scale for weight instead of measure of your marinade additives);

4) find your overall combined sodium used per pound. This is your baseline sodium content to follow in order to formulate a wet-cure recipe and maintain near/exact sodium content in the wet-cure recipe.

5) make any reductions in sodium with low-salt products by re-calculating for the beginning of the wet-cure recipe, then add recommended cure of your choice, per pound measure (convert to g/mg as needed). This is your new sodium content per pound. Compare with original. If still too high, find more reduced salt products and/or remove added salt and reformulate.

Conversions:

1 fl oz = 2 Tbsp *(ed*_*it)*_

1 Tbsp = 0.5oz dry-salt _*(edit)*_

3 tsp = 1 Tbsp

1 ounce = 28.35 grams (g)

1 gram = 1,000 milligrams (mg)

Salt weighs 0.5oz (14.175g) / (14,750 mg) per (level) Tablespoon

 
So, this should bring everything onto the table, and you/we can dissect what's going into the recipe for sodium to replace some of the currently used sodium with a cure-mix and keep it close to, if not identical when the recipe is converted from your current brine/marinade to a wet-cure.

Now, there is one possible issue which could bite us here, and that is the fact that you have so much added sauce/liquid. I have to wonder it a cure will still work properly with all that going on, but if there isn't a whole lot of free liquid with the meat when everything is in there mixed up, it could still be a viable process. I may need to get a moderator or two on this and see what they think.

Anyway, the above process to convert and calculate should cover that end...hopefully the cure will work with the other ingredients...that may be the question of the day.

*EDIT:* I just asked myself that question and don't see a problem with it because of some of my wet-cures for corned beef pastrami were very heavily laden with spices...not a paste, but very dark with a lot of solids in the solution, and the end results were beatiful, with fully cured meat, so I think we're good to go. It will take some extra time over what a clear wet-cure solution will require.

Eric

Had a couple brain farts on the conversion chart, or typos...anyway, fixed it.


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

OK ... Let me try and figure this ..

240 mg

11570 mg

18400 mg

3040 mg

16320 mg

a total of 49570 mg of sodium per about 15-20 average of jerky that I generally make .. which would be 49.57 G of salt... which would then be 3.3 TBSP salt added it total ?

UMMMMM I think you totally lost me


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 14, 2012)

I made a couple edits above, but what we need is a break-down so you use the same amount of mix and cure additive per pound. This is important for curing, as you cure the meat by weight and use the same amount as recommended on the package label. The mix or other ingredients should be the same for uniformity between batches, so weights of meat and measures or weights of everything else used are important.

Oh, that brings up another question, do you have a food scale? Maybe a 5 or 6lb capacity or larger? When you trim the meat and slice it up, you get a weight of the total batch of meat, then add cure and other ingredients accordingly.


RitaMcD said:


> OK ... Let me try and figure this ..
> 
> 240 mg
> 
> ...


Sorry, might have botched you up there. Let me go back and check you math so I know if you're following it.

Eric


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 14, 2012)

RitaMcD said:


> OK ... Let me try and figure this ..
> 
> 240 mg
> 
> ...




I ran a 3.497 Tbsp of sodium from the above.

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

Yes I have a food scale up to 11lbs and a small lab scale also .. I do a LOT of canning so I need the scale often in the summer time ..

NOPE I just add the same amount of my basic marinade and eye the amount of meat ... let it set in the fridge for 2 days and put it in the dehydrator for about 7 hours on usually 160 .. but given my crumble issue I put it down to 150 this time and it took longer but came out much better ..


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

OK so it wasn't too far off ..  SOOO what do I need to do .. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 My brain hurts 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 I am sure this isn't what my husband expects on a weekend he is gone 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  

and if I add cure ... How much longer would it preserve the meat ?


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 14, 2012)

RitaMcD said:


> OK so it wasn't too far off ..  SOOO what do I need to do ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, the totals of all ingredients that you will add to one pound of meat...take that total sodium content (have to break it down to # ounces of liquid from the bottle, etc). Then, you can break it down from there how much sodium needs to be cut in order to use a cure mix (which has a specified amount of salt and is used @ recommended amounts) in your recipe. This will help to keep the same sodium content per pound.

Mostly for the baseline amount of sodium, you just need mg or g weights, which can be converted to tsp or Tbsp measure for when you add the cure to the recipe amount. If you want to keep it the same, then reduce sodium somewhere, and replace with the salt in the cure additive.

What I see you doing for previous recipes is kind of a loose way to go about your marinating, and that's fine, as long as your meat is coated or covered, it will do it's job.

When a cure additive comes into the picture, you need reasonably accurate measurements of the marinade ingredients and cure additives to be added to a known measurement of meat, as the cure additives can be toxic if no controls are used and too much cure is added.

For purposes of repeatability and ease of measurement, a per pound (of meat) or per 10 pounds and so on is used for sausage mixes as well as other curing. For smaller batch sizes, and especially where you may have an odd number of pounds of trimmed and cut meat, and/or fraction/decimal measures, a per pound formulation makes finishing the recipe easier, as you can calculate the remainder of the fraction/decimal of weighed meat and use it all in one batch for the best uniformity.

When you trim and cut the meat, you will have loss of weight...normal. If you use previously frozen meat, you will have additional loss, due to the liquid in the package after thawing. So the final step before adding cure and other ingredients is to weight the meat. You could use a per 10 or 20 lb recipe and trim up a bunch of meat and hope you get close on the weight (keep trimming and cutting until you have the batch quantity), but it's not really practical from a home-curing stand-point, IMHO, unless you knew you had more meat than you needed, fresh from the store or fresh harvested animal...then you could trim and cut whatever batch size of meat you wanted and have the additional ingredients pre-measured and ready to go...it's just not a good idea with cure additives.

With jerky, the cure itself isn't so much what preserves the meat (in this case jerky) as far as the finished product. Cure and smoke both act to inhibit bacteria in finished product, but not as much as the lack of moisture. The drying is what keeps the critters away. The cure keeps the critters away while the meat is drying. Cure # 1 and Morton's Tender Quick basically stop/kill the bacteria (if present), so that while the meat is raised in temperature from fridge temp during smoking/drying through what we refer to as the danger zone, or 40-140*F, they cannot do their dirty work. While in the danger zone, many bacteria will thrive, multiply and leave behind waste products which are toxic (this makes you sick). Even if the bacteria were killed when the meat reaches a fully cooked temperature, the toxins are still there. Cure, when properly used, prevents this from happening.

The shelf life of jerky isn't so much effected by the cure as it is by the moisture content. Bacteria need moisture and warmth to thrive, and when meat is dried properly, bacteria aren't as likely to become active in the product (without post-processing contamination).


RitaMcD said:


> Yes I have a food scale up to 11lbs and a small lab scale also .. I do a LOT of canning so I need the scale often in the summer time ..
> 
> NOPE I just add the same amount of my basic marinade and eye the amount of meat ... let it set in the fridge for 2 days and put it in the dehydrator for about 7 hours on usually 160 .. but given my crumble issue I put it down to 150 this time and it took longer but came out much better ..


If you have a food scale, you're pretty much set to go for curing meats. That's a big plus. I've never dried jerky without cure, but have very little texture problems...either drying time and temp is right for the conditions at the time, or I check it frequently enough near the end to avoid it. Not sure if curing can help prevent texture issues or not.

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

OK so next time I make a batch .. which is usually around the 20 lb zone because that's what my dehydrator will hold approx .. Think I will get a digital scale for the larger amounts so I can get the actual weight because the one I have is one with the needle thing ... I will measure everything I put in.. Measure the meat first after trimmed  .. which by the way I do have a slicer for uniform slices .. I usually use round eye roast .. Its called different everywhere tho ;p or top round if its on sale ..

My meats are always totally submerged in the brine / marinade to the point you can only see the marinade on top .. because I know that's how germs get into your food also ..

I don't know if it makes a difference or not but I do keep it in the freezer .. take a small bag out here and there for us .. but its kept in the deep freeze till we finish it all up . .

Then we can do more math


----------



## diggingdogfarm (Apr 14, 2012)

You may want to consider calculating what's required per kilogram of meat, that way you can scale your recipe much more accurately  and easily.

1 kilo of Beef Strips
1/2 tsp. Cure#1 (2.5 grams)

Then determine what you need for your other ingredients (in grams) so that it's not too salty, but keeping your proportions the same.

I've converted all of my recipes to one kilo batches, it's made things a lot easier.

Just a thought.....


~Martin


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

That's a great thought Martin but I will stay with what I know .. with short term memory disorder I have to KNOW what I am doing or it leaks out quite fast 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 really I have measurement charts every where ... and still have to look at them everyday 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Its SOOOO annoying ..


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 14, 2012)

RitaMcD said:


> That's a great thought Martin but I will stay with what I know .. with short term memory disorder I have to KNOW what I am doing or it leaks out quite fast
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That funny! Well, to joke about it anyway, but I have a pretty good idea what you mean. I've found myself doing some pretty weird things lately that I could not explain to myself...just simple stuff that required little to no real focus, but I still couldn't stay on track. Is that bad? Maybe just too many distractions and too much multitasking...I hope so. Ha-ha!




RitaMcD said:


> OK so next time I make a batch .. which is usually around the 20 lb zone because that's what my dehydrator will hold approx .. Think I will get a digital scale for the larger amounts so I can get the actual weight because the one I have is one with the needle thing ... I will measure everything I put in.. Measure the meat first after trimmed  .. which by the way I do have a slicer for uniform slices .. I usually use round eye roast .. Its called different everywhere tho ;p or top round if its on sale ..
> 
> My meats are always totally submerged in the brine / marinade to the point you can only see the marinade on top .. because I know that's how germs get into your food also ..
> 
> ...


There ya go, I was going to suggest just weighing 3 or 4 parts of the total batch and adding together, but if it will save you some headache and time, go bigger. I have a 30lb capacity digital postal scale...very accurate, and weighs down to 0.2oz. I do see already where we can probably cut back on some salt just by cutting down on some of volume of the wet from your list if we need to. Between that and going to low/reduced-sodium products, it can be done. For my wet cures, they're barely wet, and have no free liquid after it's cured.

Freezing is the best way for longer-term storage. Just leave the package out at room temp so it warms up before opening, then you don't get water vapor from the air condensing inside package upon opening. I sometimes take the thawed jerky (should say warmed, not much moisture in it to actually freeze) and store in the fridge if it's for just a couple days, but wouldn't recommend it for very long as mold loves cool dark places. We've had some out at room temp after opening for over a week without issues...just keep it compressed to remove as much air as possible and zipped closed when not munching away.


DiggingDogFarm said:


> You may want to consider calculating what's required per kilogram of meat, that way you can scale your recipe much more accurately and easily.
> 
> 1 kilo of Beef Strips
> 1/2 tsp. Cure#1 (2.5 grams)
> ...


I was considering doing that awhile back, but I have a ton of recipes to convert...would need to have some software or write up a spreed sheet of my own to do it on...then a lot of extra time on my hands. Thing is, I spend all my spare time here, so that would take me away from one of my bigger hobbies of helping folks out here. I'll only do it you promise not to miss me a couple months...LOL!!!

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 14, 2012)

That funny! Well, to joke about it anyway, but I have a pretty good idea what you mean. I've found myself doing some pretty weird things lately that I could not explain to myself...just simple stuff that required little to no real focus, but I still couldn't stay on track. Is that bad? Maybe just too many distractions and too much multitasking...I hope so. Ha-ha!

Yeah its bad for me ... I feel as if I am constantly chasing my tail around trying to complete a task 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 and yeah it can get embarrassing sometimes ..

I have NO clue how to use the multi quote feature 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





There ya go, I was going to suggest just weighing 3 or 4 parts of the total batch and adding together, but if it will save you some headache and time, go bigger. I have a 30lb capacity digital postal scale...very accurate, and weighs down to 0.2oz. I do see already where we can probably cut back on some salt just by cutting down on some of volume of the wet from your list if we need to. Between that and going to low/reduced-sodium products, it can be done. For my wet cures, they're barely wet, and have no free liquid after it's cured.

I only ordered an 11 lber way thinner than the one I have now .. it will save much space in the kitchen .. but it will also be useful it also does grams etc ...

But if I could cut down on some of the salt and ingredents that have a lot of MSG in them I would be happy ..I don't eat much of the jerky because it is high in MSG from the soy and Worch.

you like science stuff you should try making cheese


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 15, 2012)

RitaMcD said:


> That funny! Well, to joke about it anyway, but I have a pretty good idea what you mean. I've found myself doing some pretty weird things lately that I could not explain to myself...just simple stuff that required little to no real focus, but I still couldn't stay on track. Is that bad? Maybe just too many distractions and too much multitasking...I hope so. Ha-ha!
> 
> Yeah its bad for me ... I feel as if I am constantly chasing my tail around trying to complete a task
> 
> ...


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 15, 2012)

I have a recipe for 30 minute Mozzarella ..  its a fun process for the kids to watch .. and you can use a gallon of milk from the grocery ..

http://www.cheesemaking.com/howtomakemozzarellacheese.html

and here are a bunch of others as well ..

http://www.cheesemaking.com/recipes/recipedetails.html

this is a local company here in Mass.. and I am lucky enough to be able to buy organic raw milk here as well ..

For your Cheddar and other harder cheeses you will need a press

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Cheese-Press

we are having a big discussion about MSG on my website right now .. And beings I can't be everyplace at once I better stick to my site or I may get in trouble


----------



## daveomak (Apr 16, 2012)

Rita, morning....  I'm really late to the party ... Sorry .....

You mentioned the jerky being crumbly....   Alton Brown had a show on jerky.... Not impressed with his method but he had a comment about the jerky drying out and getting crumbly...

His "solution" was adding honey to hold some moisture... Honey is hydro or hygro scopic or something like that... can't remember....  anyway this might be a solution for you to think about...

Below are his ratios for stuff he puts into his jerky and if the honey ratio is correct, something to ponder...   Eric has you covered on everything else....   I hope I'm not duplicating with this post... I read it all and didn't see honey or sugar mentioned...   Dave
[h2]Ingredients[/h2]
concordance-begin

*1 1/2 to 2 pounds flank steak*
2/3 cup Worcestershire sauce
2/3 cup soy sauce
*1 tablespoon honey*
2 teaspoons freshly ground black pepper
2 teaspoons onion powder
1 teaspoon liquid smoke
1 teaspoon red pepper flakes


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks Dave !! I actually do add honey and Brown sugar to my recipe .. I really think it was the heat .. AND something I never checked .. If the heat in my dehydrator is correct .. Just thought about that .. better get on it ... It was perfect drying at 150 but 160 was tooo dry and the inside wasn't getting dried enough .. I think slower is better


----------



## daveomak (Apr 16, 2012)

Rita, afternoon_...  It was perfect drying at 150 but 160 was tooo dry and the inside wasn't getting dried enough ..  _

I have heard something close to that, about sausage smoking and drying snack sticks......  Bear with me here....   Once the outside gets dry, and if it dries too fast, it will seal the remaining moisture inside the dried outside casing/pellicle etc....  I know that is true for doing my kippered salmon.... maybe the same for jerky....   OK I haven't finished my first cold one yet so ....

I know where I read it.....  Sausage making... like salami etc... that is why they use humidity control.... to keep the exterior moist so it will let the interior moisture move to the exterior to evaporate...

Dave


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 16, 2012)

Makes perfect sense Dave ...  when I had the what was it .. harvest master or something dehydrator small and round it wouldn't get over 130 -140 my jerky was always consistent drying tho . I will keep the temps down a bit


----------



## forluvofsmoke (Apr 16, 2012)

DaveOmak said:


> Rita, afternoon_...  It was perfect drying at 150 but 160 was tooo dry and the inside wasn't getting dried enough ..  _
> 
> I have heard something close to that, about sausage smoking and drying snack sticks......  Bear with me here....   _*Once the outside gets dry, and if it dries too fast, it will seal the remaining moisture inside the dried outside casing/pellicle etc*_....  I know that is true for doing my kippered salmon.... maybe the same for jerky....   OK I haven't finished my first cold one yet so ....
> 
> ...


Exactly what I remember reading, too, Dave. When I made a few batches of heat-treated dried beef salami and chicken salami, I ran a super-low drying temp and s---l---o---w---l---y bumped temps up. This seemed to make a huge difference in how much moisture I could remove from the meat with a forced drying vs just smoking @ 120-140* and bumping up to 180* or so to reach finished temps...seemed like forever to hit the finish line, but man was it ever worth the extra time and effort.

From all the info I've read thus far pertaining to dry-curing of whole muscle meats and dry-curing/fermenting of sausages, humidity is a critical control for that same reason...outside gets too dry too fast and you're done drying the meat. It's an extremely slow process compared to jerky drying, but it's the same basic principle.

Jerky seems to get pretty finicky about faster start-up temps for drying too, so I don't like to push it much at all for the first several hours *(EDIT)* with _*cured*_ meat.

Eric


----------



## ritamcd (Apr 16, 2012)

I totally agree and next time I dry some up I am going to get a little more technical with the whole thing .. I may even impress my husband lol and just try and figure out whats exactly in it


----------



## spuds (May 11, 2012)

WARNING!!! NOT APPROVED METHOD AS NO CURE INVOLVED.NOT COOKED TO 160F. NOT USDA APPROVED AT ALL. DO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

OK,theres the disclaimer,now what I do.I generally start with a 50/50 mix soy/water,then maybe add teriyaki,worchestshire to that. Might add honey/brown sugar/or garlic or assorted spices.If that isnt enough salt and sugars for a cure than so be it,IMO YES,its plenty.

Soak sliced whole muscle overnight and then into dehydrator at 120F. Yes,that low.And dry over a day or two until its dry but not crumbly.Then I.... GET THIS....put it into 1 gallon zip lock bags and it lives there,on a counter top,at room temps until devoured.

Done this all my adult life so 35 years anyhow.

And NEVER had a bad batch.This DOES NOT have to be Rocket Surgery.Does not need a slide rule and scales to make.

IMO ONLY,take it or leave it.If you fear your cooking,break out the slide rule and have at it.

If a cavemen could do it,so can I,without all the USDA science.

Actual picture of Spuds making jerky....








So,the disclaimer is there,you determine your risk profile.


----------



## ritamcd (May 11, 2012)

LMAO Spuds that was great


----------



## spuds (May 11, 2012)

Actual Photo of Mrs Spuds






	

		
			
		

		
	
"The only thing we calculate is will it fit!"

_Brontosaurus Jerky.....June 11th..10,000 BC_


----------



## ritamcd (May 11, 2012)

WOW Mrs Spuds is a Hottie 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 What dehydrator do you have ?


----------



## spuds (May 12, 2012)

Its a 20 tray from the 1970,s dont remember the name,its unlabled.Pic shows the top half,same setup on lower half so you can only run half if you desire.

I got it at a thrift store eons ago labled as 'Furniture' for something crazy like 3.77,yup thats 3 dollars and change.At that time it looked unused with the original manuals still inside.

Mrs Spuds only competition in looks is that Wilma Flintstone,even Mrs Spuds has to admit she is hot stuff.


----------



## ritamcd (May 12, 2012)

Interesting that it had no labels .. looks like a great machine ...

Wilma has nothing on Mrs ..


----------



## spuds (May 13, 2012)

It was like 'The New Age Food Dehydrator' and had pictures like a family on the Old Mother Earth News covers in the manuals. Made me think it was Hippie entrepenuers.It is a cool machine for sure.


----------



## gene wells (Nov 6, 2015)

If you are getting   "crumbly" jerky,,you are leaving it in to long....


----------

