# Flavor enhancers, go!



## d9t2s523 (Feb 11, 2017)

What does everybody think of these? Accent, yeast extract, MSG, etc.. Either in rubs or injections. What is every bodies take on these. I walk past them every time I am at the grocery store pick it up, look at it and put it back. I am kind of a naturalist, and love letting the taste of the meat with a rub or injection work with it. 

I read out that that they help achieve umami, and definitely have had Que with enhancers used in them at the local BBQ joints. Then I have read that MSG can give people head aches. 

What does everybody have to say about them. Pros, cons and shoot! 
Thanks in advance for all the comments, and advice.


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 11, 2017)

D9t2s523 said:


> What does everybody think of these? Accent, yeast extract, MSG, etc.. Either in rubs or injections. What is every bodies take on these. I walk past them every time I am at the grocery store pick it up, look at it and put it back. I am kind of a naturalist, and love letting the taste of the meat with a rub or injection work with it.
> 
> I read out that that they help achieve umami, and definitely have had Que with enhancers used in them at the local BBQ joints. Then I have read that MSG can give people head aches.
> 
> ...


You go farther than I do, by picking it up and looking at it and then putting it back.  I don't even break stride.  My $0.02


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## joe black (Feb 11, 2017)

Exactly right on.   Im not putting any of that stuff on my meat.  I'll smoke it asked first.


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## crankybuzzard (Feb 11, 2017)

I don't use them much.  I have an old recipe that calls for accent, but I haven't used it the last couple of times.


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## firemanjon (Feb 11, 2017)

Never tried em...my meats taste just fine without


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## d9t2s523 (Feb 11, 2017)

Awesome, I never used them on any of my cooks, or any of my cooking. Smoke, grill, anything. I have great turn outs and wasn't sure if I was missing out on something. Thanks so far for all the comments, I want to hear the debate from somebody that swears by them.


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## crankybuzzard (Feb 11, 2017)

D9t2s523 said:


> Thanks so far for all the comments, I want to hear the debate from somebody that swears by them.



You probably won't find many, if any, here.


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## d9t2s523 (Feb 11, 2017)

Right on! Thanks all for talking me off the ledge of possible poison. Lol


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## mr t 59874 (Feb 11, 2017)

I personally use Accent, primarily when cooking Asian recipes. It does enhance the flavors of fish, poultry, pork, and beef. It also allows me to cut back on the salt content that would normally be used; a little bit goes a long way. Note though, we do not suffer from the side effects that some do, or worry about, nor is it used on smoked or grilled foods, mainly in sauces and stir fries.

T


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 12, 2017)

MSG is more than a hundred years old and used by millions of people added to every bite of food that goes in their mouth. MSG a form Glutamic Acid...A NATURALLY OCCURRING AMINO ACID and building block of protein, can be extracted from foods with high concentrations like Kombu Seaweed, through breaking down protein by cooking like when browning meat or through fermentation. Glutamic Acid aka Glutamate is found in every living thing that we eat. Humans recognize Glutamate as necessary to life and crave it from Birth.Yes BIRTH! Human Breast Milk contains 22mg/100g, same as eggs and just slightly lower than beef, fish and chicken. Just a taste and a minutes old Baby latches on and can't get enough and how many would say, " STOP you are feeding your baby MSG! ". While there are people who have sensitivity the media attack of the late 60's and 70's and paranoid health nuts of today have demonized MSG to the point that a majority think it's bad. Just not true. Some studies have shown that many peoples " issues " with MSG are psychosomatic and can be brought on by being told a MSG FREE food they ate contained MSG. MSG is natural, safe for most to consume, tastes great, and truly enhances the flavor of food.

Now add the Ribonucleotide extracts Disodium Inosinate and Disodium Guanylate aka* I&G*, found in Shiitake Mushrooms and meats, and you Super Activate the flavor enhancing effect of MSG. I have both MSG and I&G in my arsenal and have played with and used them extensively. Check your labels, most ready to eat foods contain both MSG and I&G.

Any of you MSG sensitive eating Chinese Food because the menu says " No added MSG "? Guess again...The main ingredients, Soy Sauce, Oyster Sauce, Hoisin Sauce, Fermented Yellow and Black Beans and the Ancient Chinese Secret ingredient Chicken Powder (dry chicken soup base), all contain Glutamates that are chemically indistinguishable from MSG and the Chicken Powder contains both MSG and I&G directly...Adding additional MSG just adds more flavor. Like dipping a ripe sweet Strawberry in Sugar. 

Check out these Videos for a non-scientific test that is amusing...JJ

Foodnetwork Food Detectives Part 1 and 2...





http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/FoodAdditivesIngredients/ucm328728.htm

http://www.msgfacts.com/nutrition/food-and-nutrition.aspx

http://www.vrg.org/blog/2011/03/21/...guanylate-are-all-vegetable-flavor-enhancers/


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## DanMcG (Feb 12, 2017)

Great info JJ, Do you have a source for the I&G in processed form, or do you  just use the mushrooms?


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## firemanjon (Feb 12, 2017)

Great info


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## SmokinAl (Feb 12, 2017)

Thank you JJ!

Al


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## d9t2s523 (Feb 12, 2017)

Very nice break down. Thank you. I have recently looked at my food labels and have found MSG in all of them from yellow rice, to Doritos. But have you dabbled with yeast extract at all? I have been hearing that this also helps achieve umami. I have done tons of reasearch on it all. And you have almost a 50-50 split on doers and do noters. But this has been a great turn out.


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## mr t 59874 (Feb 12, 2017)

Mr T 59874 said:


> I personally use Accent, primarily when cooking Asian recipes. It does enhance the flavors of fish, poultry, pork, and beef. It also allows me to cut back on the salt content that would normally be used; a little bit goes a long way. Note though, we do not suffer from the side effects that some do, or worry about, nor is it used on smoked or grilled foods, mainly in sauces and stir fries.
> 
> T


Thank you JJ, I was walking on tippy toes, but you took the bull by the horns.

Thanks again,

T


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 12, 2017)

DanMcG said:


> Great info JJ, Do you have a source for the I&G in processed form, or do you  just use the mushrooms?



Yes, the Ingredient Store carries I &G. Shiitake Powder is available from many spice distributors.



D9t2s523 said:


> Very nice break down. Thank you. I have recently looked at my food labels and have found MSG in all of them from yellow rice, to Doritos. But have you dabbled with yeast extract at all? I have been hearing that this also helps achieve umami. I have done tons of reasearch on it all. And you have almost a 50-50 split on doers and do noters. But this has been a great turn out.



Yes. But I sourced it as samples from food additive manufacturers. Best description would be a less refined version of MSG with similar flavor enhancing but more mild and subtle...JJ


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## dwdunlap (Feb 12, 2017)

Thank you Jimmy for clearing up the MSG controversy. I have saved your information to share with family and others.

I have read before on the safety of MSG but you you cleared up how how impracticable avoiding  Accent really is. We'll never sway some but your information will help most of us enjoy the better flavor.

Thanks   DW


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## ab canuck (Feb 12, 2017)

Thx. For the great info, That makes a whole lot of sense. Now I won't be hesitant to use it in the future....


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## sundown farms (Feb 14, 2017)

Fake Food Science Exposed!!!  I have wanted to try Accent for a long time but decided I ingest enough risky stuff already. Are there any rules of thumb on using it in lieu of salt or other ingredients in recipes that do not call for it?


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## nopigleftbehind (Feb 14, 2017)

Jimmy J! You da Man!!! Hey can you come to my house and explain all that to my wife!!! HAHA.


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## bbqbrett (Feb 14, 2017)

Jimmy, sounds like good info.  Remember though that all people are different and there are probably a number that have a sensitivity to MSG.  Just because something is natural  and occurs in some foods does not mean that some people might not have a problem with it to some extent or another.  Especially considering when food manufacturers and processes could elevate in some food above and beyond what people might get by eating more organic or natural foods.

I have known a couple of people that were sensitive to MSG but did not find out about it until after I had fed them some veggies that had a seasoning salt that had it in it.  They did not know ahead of time what I had used when we had dinner and I did not know they were sensitive to it.  An hour or so later they both got pretty bad headaches and asked if any thing we ate had MSG in it.

I think overall for most people though it is not a real problem.


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 15, 2017)

Sundown Farms said:


> Fake Food Science Exposed!!!  I have wanted to try Accent for a long time but decided I ingest enough risky stuff already. Are there any rules of thumb on using it in lieu of salt or other ingredients in recipes that do not call for it?


A little goes along way. I add 1tsp to a gallon of Soup. A pinch in most dishes...


BBQBrett said:


> Jimmy, sounds like good info. Remember though that all people are different and there are probably a number that have a sensitivity to MSG. Just because something is natural and occurs in some foods does not mean that some people might not have a problem with it to some extent or another. Especially considering when food manufacturers and processes could elevate in some food above and beyond what people might get by eating more organic or natural foods.
> 
> I have known a couple of people that were sensitive to MSG but did not find out about it until after I had fed them some veggies that had a seasoning salt that had it in it. They did not know ahead of time what I had used when we had dinner and I did not know they were sensitive to it. An hour or so later they both got pretty bad headaches and asked if any thing we ate had MSG in it.
> 
> *I think overall for most people though it is not a real problem.*


Brett, I stated that there are people who are sensitive to the refined version...BUT...There are hundreds of internet articles that claim every Glutamate containing food from Parm Reggiano, Soy Sauce, Sauerkraut and Grandma's Spaghetti Sauce to Sauteed Mushrooms are all MSG and dangerous! ALL building on the paranoia and bad press.

I don't doubt your friends are sensitive just like I don't doubt friends of mine that are Celiacs, my point is, an entire generation born after the 60's have eaten MSG in hundreds of convenience foods from Cambell's Soups, to Hot dogs, Bologna and RAMEN and have No Clue and no problem, but swear they are allergic to MSG. IMO it is silly to ignore a useful tool in your culinary arsenal based on hysteria. Your last line is spot on...JJ


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## browneyesvictim (Feb 17, 2017)

Thank you JJ. Very informative. Just what I had already come to believe, but this acknowledgement is perfect.

As for other flavor enhancers- I've been experimenting lately with applications and use of Bragg Liquid Amino. It still has 320mg per tsp though. I have always been a fan of Worchester, and now Hendersons Relish. Soy has its place as well as fish and oyster sauce.


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## boykjo (Feb 17, 2017)

My 2 cents

I have been experimenting with MSG on and off with sausage seasonings for some time and IMO it can be difficult to figure out the exact amount needed in a recipe to enhance the flavor. I have added too little and couldn't tell the difference and added too much and could taste the MSG too much and had to punt it. There is a fine line when mixing MSG with other ingredients and the way it blends with other ingredients. If you are going to use it there may be some trial and error.  When I try a product that is superior in flavor it usually has MSG in it along with other additives or preservatives so I'm always leaning towards trying to use them in a recipe that will be in the marketplace. At the moment for personal use I don't use it in any sausage seasonings except for a breakfast sausage. I use co-workers as guinea pigs who volunteer as taste testers and they tend to like the products with MSG in them although they don't know its in there..... 

I have a buddy who swears he and his son are allergic to MSG and get severe headaches even if they touch it. I haven't told them the Stevens breakfast sausage they eat all the time at the country store's breakfast counter has MSG in it and they eat it up real good.....lol

Joe


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## daveomak (Feb 17, 2017)

FWIW........             

[h2]Science[/h2]

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Monosodium glutamate is a powerful flavor enhancer that, despite what you may have heard, is widely accepted in the scientific community as a safe additive. In fact, MSG or other "free glutamates" occur naturally in many of the most flavorful foods, some of which have been used to enhance flavor in cooking for millennia.

What makes MSG and other free glutamates so potent, researchers believe, is that they trigger special glutamate receptors in your mouth, unlocking the savory taste known as umami.

How do you get free glutamates in your food naturally? Here are some of the foods with the most, according to a review of studies by the Australia/New Zealand food board and a Japanese NGO devoted to umami:

Kelp: 230–3380 mg /100g

Seaweed: 550–1350 mg

Marmite 1960 mg

Vegemite: 1431 mg

Fish sauce: 727–1383 mg

Soy sauce: 400–1700 mg

Parmesan cheese: 1200–1680 mg

Roquefort cheese: 1280 mg

Dried shiitake mushrooms: 1060 mg

Oyster sauce: 900 mg

Miso: 200–700 mg

Green tea: 220–670 mg

Anchovies: 630 mg

Salted squid: 620 mg

Cured ham: 340 mg

Emmental cheese: 310 mg

Sardines: 10–280 mg

Grape juice: 258 mg

Kimchi: 240 mg

Cheddar cheese: 180 mg

Tomatoes: 140–250 mg

Clams: 210 mg

Peas: 200 mg

Potatoes: 30–180 mg

Scallops: 140–159 mg

Squid: 20–146 mg

Shimeji mushrooms: 140 mg

Oysters: 40–150 mg

Corn: 70–130 mg

"If you want to make something taste good, put Parmesan on anything," food scientist Steve Witherly tells Business Insider. "The Italians have known this for about 2,000 years."

So it's logical that a bit of kelp, seaweed, soy sauce, or any other of these ingredients, when added the right way, could punch up the flavor of an existing recipe as well. Yes, a lot of this stuff comes from East Asia (including artificial MSG, invented in Japan).

"Asians are way ahead on the savory side," Witherly says.

If you want a shortcut to umami heaven, you can, of course, use artificial MSG. Witherly swears by it in his home-cooking, particularly what he calls the "ideal mixture" of 9 parts salt to 1 part MSG (plus a bit of disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate). You can buy that potent combination in premixed forms at most Korean and Japanese grocery stores.


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## bbqbrett (Feb 17, 2017)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Sundown Farms said:
> 
> 
> > Fake Food Science Exposed!!!  I have wanted to try Accent for a long time but decided I ingest enough risky stuff already. Are there any rules of thumb on using it in lieu of salt or other ingredients in recipes that do not call for it?
> ...



Regardless you have provided some great info.  And I am glad I do not have any problems with msg.


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## sky monkey (Feb 22, 2017)

The injection I use in my brisket has a cup of beef stock in it and while I make my own chicken and vegetable stock I don't get the bones to make beef stock often.  The beef stock has MSG in it so I do use it for flavor in a lateral sort of way.  I've never got any of the ingredients by themselves Accent, MSG or yeast extract.  I wouldn't be too opposed to it if it made my recipes taste better.


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## lamar (Aug 20, 2017)

The information JJ gives above deserves a bump so many more can read it.   As always,  JJ is spot  on.


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## pit 4 brains (Aug 21, 2017)

DaveOmak said:


> FWIW........
> 
> [h2]Science[/h2]
> 
> ...


Vegemite: (veg-e mite) Noun. A rare form of explosive produce containing an abnormal amount of Trinitrotoluene. Although rare in nature, synthetic vegemite can be recognized by any common fruit or vegetable such as watermelon and eggplant that has a reddish core and a fuse-like stem. Vegemite is recognized as an Eco-friendly stump remover.

Other forms of vegemite may be produced by marinating whole vegetables in a solution of fuel oil and ammonium nitrate (cure #4). The latter is not recommended..

I don't know if I'm going to get in trouble for this but I just couldn't pass it up...


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## fergy (Aug 22, 2017)

Vegemite 
Sorta like sex on toast :yahoo:


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## vortreker (Oct 5, 2017)

This nonsense of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" started in the 60's when some whiny little neurotic doctor had an anxiety attack after eating at a a C. Restaurant and published a paper blaming it on the MSG with no evidence whatsoever and subsequently deprived the panic stricken public of the 5th (and best taste) Umami. A taste most Americans did not even recognize as a receptor in the 60's. There has NEVER!! been one valid scientific study to confirm any of the so called bad effects. Including rash, headache, anxiety attack, vapors :), etc.  Do not deprive yourself, or your guests,  of this valuable enhancer  in their eating experience.  ps In case you think I was a bit harsh on the wimpy doctor--I is one. (Dr. not a wimp that is) and have known many.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/aug/12/msg-allergy-chinese-restaurant-syndr


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## vortreker (Oct 5, 2017)

The persistence of the Chinese restaurant syndrome myth is a symptom of the hypochondria that has become fashionable in contemporary Anglo-American culture, and the failure of our educational systems to teach people the difference between quackery and hard science.


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## zwiller (Aug 31, 2018)

I let the idiots drink the koolaid...  http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Anyone not using msg is really missing out.  It truly is another level.  Anyone know what that premixed msg and ing is called or where to get it?  ING alone is $35...  Also, msg is dirt cheap by the pound at asian markets.


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## chef jimmyj (Sep 4, 2018)

I can't find a MSG I&G premix but I  can say, the $35 1 pound bag from the Ingredient Store, will be enough for your life time. A blend of 2% I&G to 98% MSG gives a four fold increase in flavor over MSG alone. Considering MSG is commonly added at .5% by weight the approximate weight of glutamate in Parma Cheese, you are talking about 2 teaspoons MSG/I&G blend in 5 pounds of sausage...JJ


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## zwiller (Sep 4, 2018)

Stumbled upon a 4oz bag I&G for $13 @ IS...  In my cart and perusing the site for other stuff.  Just did burgers last night with 10% water, .5% msg, and .5% phosphate.  

I am really down the rabbit hole now.  Building a slider loaf recipe and gonna try using some extenders.  Marianski sings alot of praise for TVP so I picked some up to play with along with some potato starch.  Kinda weird to think I can actually make things healthier and better at same time.


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## chef jimmyj (Sep 4, 2018)

TVP mixed even 50/50 with ground meat is indistinguishable from all meat. You can use 100% TVP in Chili and no one would know. To keep vegan, TVP burgers or Chili needs some help. Add Maggi Seasoning and or Washington's Rich Brown Seasoning for a beefy flavor, with no meat...JJ


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