# Bacon fail, what'd I do wrong?  And does size matter?



## zeekm (Jan 4, 2021)

I raised 2 pigs on non-GMO, pesticide free feed and they were allowed to be pigs, they rooted and played pig tag.  I process myself and have done it for years.  We wet cured the bacon with a basic cure that had brown sugar, pink salt, kosher salt and peppercorns and water.  My wife did the mix and we brined for 12 days in the fridge.  

I attempted to cold smoke the 4 bellies in my MES 30" with a pellet tube and hickory pellets.  Obviously the smoker was off, not heat.  I smoked for about 22-24 hours and it tastes tangy/acrid/bitterish.....

So...did I smoke too long?

Does smoke time change based on smoker size....if you have a refrigarator sized smoker and use a pellet tube do you smoke longer than if in a smaller 30" smoker?  Do you smoke for say 20 hours regardless of smoker size?

I did notice the with the digital display on the temperature went up to about 100F...did that cause the problem?

I have some jowel bacon to smoke....should I just use the external cold smoke attachment that sits a few feet away and is piped in via 3" dryer duct?  I got the mod instrctions on here.


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## Coreymacc (Jan 4, 2021)

Oh wow, 24 hrs? I do my bellies cold also, 2.5 hrs.  Sometimes just 2 hrs. That's it.  They may be ok with time but that's a lot of smoke.

I'm sure there are others who can advise how to salvage them. 

Corey


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## zeekm (Jan 4, 2021)

Coreymacc said:


> Oh wow, 24 hrs? I do my bellies cold also, 2.5 hrs.  Sometimes just 2 hrs. That's it.  They may be ok with time but that's a lot of smoke.
> 
> I'm sure there are others who can advise how to salvage them.
> 
> Corey


I have no idea why I did 24 hours....guess that would be the issue.  I am not too worried about salvaging, but I do not want to mess up the jowel bacon. 
Can you use the pellet tube smoker for cold smoking?


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## Coreymacc (Jan 4, 2021)

zeekm said:


> I have no idea why I did 24 hours....guess that would be the issue.  I am not too worried about salvaging, but I do not want to mess up the jowel bacon.
> Can you use the pellet tube smoker for cold smoking?


I don't have a pellet tube but I doubt they would create much heat.  There a plenty of people on here who use them exactly how you plan to. Should be fine. 

Corey


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## TNJAKE (Jan 4, 2021)

I cold smoke cheese using my pellet tube. Works great


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## tx smoker (Jan 4, 2021)

I've cold smoked bacon a couple of times just for an experiment and it came out really well. I'd do 6-8 hours one day, let sit uncovered in the fridge overnight, then 6-8 more hours the second day. 24 hours does seem like a long time but being that I've never done it for that length of time, I can't say for sure that's your problem. The temp getting to 100 is no issue at all. Most of the time I smoke bacon at 170 to 175 for 8 hours or so and no problems.

Robert


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## GaryHibbert (Jan 4, 2021)

There's nothing wrong with smoking bellies for 24 hours, as long as you like lots of smoke flavor.  I usually smoke mine for a total of 20 to 24 hour in my MES 30, but I use the AMNPS in my mailbox mod.  The tube filled with pellets puts out a lot of smoke.  You're better off using dust in the tube, rather than pellets.  Unless you're at a high altitude, I'd recommend using the AMNPS (tray) rather than the tube if you want to use pellets.
If the heat was off in your MES and you still hit 100 degrees, you're obviously in a *much *warmer location than me.  Even so, 100 degrees shouldn't be a problem.  I set my MES for 80-90 degrees to get good convection for the smoke flow.
How was the air flow through your MES?  Did you have the exhaust vent wide open for the entire time?  If not, you would have had a build up of stale smoke in the smoker.
Gary


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## tx smoker (Jan 4, 2021)

GaryHibbert said:


> Did you have the exhaust vent wide open for the entire time? If not, you would have had a build up of stale smoke in the smoker.



Thank you for adding that Gary. I came back to state the exact same thing when I realized I'd missed it the first time but you made it here first   

Robert


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## zeekm (Jan 4, 2021)

Thanks for the replies so far.

Gary I had the vent on top wide open and I pulled the loader tray out to get some air flow.  I am in Ohio, 45 minutes west of Pittsburgh.

Are you saying that the tube creates too much smoke and I should abandon that method?  

Does it matter how big your smoker is and do you change smoke time based on size?  Seems to me that the more volume in the smoker the more smoke you need.


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## smokerjim (Jan 4, 2021)

Tubes do put out a lot of smoke for the mes 30, trays are much better. Let your bacon sit in fridge uncovered for a day or two maybe it will mellow out, I would use your external smoke for your jowels.


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## pineywoods (Jan 4, 2021)

Several questions how did you place the pellet smoker in the MES?  how did you have the vent set in the MES? 
Need more answers from you but I suspect you were not getting enough air flow and therefore were not getting clean smoke.   With a little back and fourth we should be able to get your smokes going correctly so you can get that awesome tasting bacon but be warned you'll never want store bought bacon ever again lol.



 chef jimmyj


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## pineywoods (Jan 4, 2021)

I see you have gotten several replies while I was typing mine Gary should have you covered with some good info. I think your main thing is going to be the mail box mod but he can explain that as he knows smoking bacon and knows the MES


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## normanaj (Jan 4, 2021)

zeekm said:


> Are you saying that the tube creates too much smoke and I should abandon that method?



If using pellets yes the tube will produce copious amounts of smoke.Dust will produce much less smoke in the tube and if the tube sits at an angle (front being higher) even thinner smoke.

But really for cold smoking something like the mailbox mod is ideal.


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## rexster314 (Jan 4, 2021)

zeekm said:


> I raised 2 pigs on non-GMO, pesticide free feed and they were allowed to be pigs, they rooted and played pig tag.  I process myself and have done it for years.  We wet cured the bacon with a basic cure that had brown sugar, pink salt, kosher salt and peppercorns and water.  My wife did the mix and we brined for 12 days in the fridge.
> 
> I attempted to cold smoke the 4 bellies in my MES 30" with a pellet tube and hickory pellets.  Obviously the smoker was off, not heat.  I smoked for about 22-24 hours and it tastes tangy/acrid/bitterish.....
> 
> ...




Waay too long. I use 3 MES 40" smoker cabinets only using the AMAZN smoker tubes. If I go longer than 5-6 hours the belly meat will get too smoky and bitter. Usually 5 hours or whenever the tubes go out works for me


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## zeekm (Jan 4, 2021)

pineywoods said:


> Several questions how did you place the pellet smoker in the MES?  how did you have the vent set in the MES?
> Need more answers from you but I suspect you were not getting enough air flow and therefore were not getting clean smoke.   With a little back and fourth we should be able to get your smokes going correctly so you can get that awesome tasting bacon but be warned you'll never want store bought bacon ever again lol.
> 
> 
> ...


You guys rock!
1. Vent was wide open, bacon hangning on bacon hangers.

2. Tube was placed in the bottom...the bellies were too long so I had no racks and had to place the tube on the bottom.

3. I did pull the chip loader out a little becasue the tube would not stay lit.

I guess what I learned was there is a such thing as too much smoke.  I will use the external smoker for the jowel bascon.  But how long?


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## hopkinsb (Jan 4, 2021)

Oh wow, glad you posted this, I thought you wanted long smoke time on bellies. Good to know


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## radioguy (Jan 4, 2021)

I cold smoke my bacon.  Small cabinet smoker.  No heat.  I have an AMPS in a mailbox mode.  I use color to judge the product.  I'll cold smoke for 5-8 hours, then into paper bag and refrigerate.  Some bellies get good mahogany color in 14 hours total.  Some take 24 hours plus.  I have never over smoked or had an acrid taste.

RG


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## indaswamp (Jan 4, 2021)

I use dust when cold smoking...thinner blue smoke...cleaner taste...cooler flame. I cold smoke for 32 hours but only at night. 12 hours per night for 4 nights in a row...


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## zeekm (Jan 4, 2021)

normanaj said:


> If using pellets yes the tube will produce copious amounts of smoke.Dust will produce much less smoke in the tube and if the tube sits at an angle (front being higher) even thinner smoke.
> 
> But really for cold smoking something like the mailbox mod is ideal.


Where do you get the dust?


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## zeekm (Jan 4, 2021)

What a range:  

 Oh wow, 24 hrs? I do my bellies cold also, 2.5 hrs. Sometimes just 2 hrs. That's it. 

 I cold smoke for 32 hours but only at night 

Maybe my issue was not the length of time but quantity of smoke.  Can yuo smoke for less time if using a pellet smoker with pellets as opposed to a pellet smoker with dust?

Again, does the size of the smker matter?  

I see the suggestions for mailbox mod....but that doesn't change the amount of smoke the tube smoker makes.....so what's it doing?

I started reading about the mailbox mod....information overload!


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## normanaj (Jan 4, 2021)

zeekm said:


> Where do you get the dust?



I take a bunch of pellets and throw them in a blender and few moments later you have dust!


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## BigW. (Jan 4, 2021)

You can also add enough water to pellets that they dissolve.  Dry in smoker/oven etc then use in tray.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 4, 2021)

Smoke duration does not really matter with Thin Blue Smoke. There are a couple guys around that smoke bellies, 8 hours a day for 7 days! The Tube puts out A Lot of smoke for a Small 30" MES. Hot smoking, no big deal. There is lots of convection and exhaust moving the thick smoke out. Cold Smoking needs to be a more gentle process, for however long you choose. The Mailbox and long, 3 foot plus, hose connection lets Creosote, black tarry smoke component that gives the acrid flavor,  condense out before the smoke enters the MES. This way, you can smoke as long as you wish, rest overnight between smoke sessions,  and not get Creosote on the bacon. The other option with Tube and Pellets is a bigger well vented smoker or shorter smoke, 8 to 12 hours in the MES. The AMNPS Maze and Dust is great in small smokers...

Give your Bacon a wash with Hot Tap Water and Vinegar, 2 to 1, the Acid will  remove most if not all the Creosote, dry well and let rest, uncovered, in the refer 3 days and see what you have. I don't think its a lost cause...JJ


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## pineywoods (Jan 4, 2021)

I think they have hit on what your problem was it's that your getting bad smoke with the pellet smoker in the smoker. The mailbox mod will help a lot with this problem as Chef JimmyJ said.  Others have told you how to make dust from pellets and between those things I think you'll have a lot better results. As for how long to smoke them I to go by the color. I do however smoke them in a larger smokehouse.
Chef JimmyJ may have even told you how to save the bacon you already did nothing to loose by trying it.


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## zeekm (Jan 4, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> Smoke duration does not really matter with Thin Blue Smoke. There are a couple guys around that smoke bellies, 8 hours a day for 7 days! The Tube puts out A Lot of smoke for a Small 30" MES. Hot smoking, no big deal. There is lots of convection and exhaust moving the thick smoke out. Cold Smoking needs to be a more gentle process, for however long you choose. The Mailbox and long, 3 foot plus, hose connection lets Creosote, black tarry smoke component that gives the acrid flavor,  condense out before the smoke enters the MES. This way, you can smoke as long as you wish, rest overnight between smoke sessions,  and not get Creosote on the bacon. The other option with Tube and Pellets is a bigger well vented smoker or shorter smoke, 8 to 12 hours in the MES. The AMNPS Maze and Dust is great in small smokers...
> 
> Give your Bacon a wash with Hot Tap Water and Vinegar, 2 to 1, the Acid will  remove most if not all the Creosote, dry well and let rest, uncovered, in the refer 3 days and see what you have. I don't think its a lost cause...JJ



For my jowl bacon I am using the set up below and not messing with the tube smoker.  I just got it and obviously I need to learn it better.  I have had trouble with the external unit, here is what it is, making the pellets swell because of moisture. Would it help if I turned it on for an hour to get everything hot and then add the pellets?


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 4, 2021)

Give it a try. Doesn't it burn Chips too? That may be an option...JJ


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## Coreymacc (Jan 4, 2021)

zeekm said:


> What a range:
> 
> Oh wow, 24 hrs? I do my bellies cold also, 2.5 hrs. Sometimes just 2 hrs. That's it.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. If I smoked a belly for 32 hrs it would be like licking 50 ash trays. I can't see how it can be done and have a product that can be eaten.
2.5 hrs of smoke on a belly, I bring it in the house to rest for a few minutes and the whole house smells like smoke.  This is definitely an apples to oranges comparison. 

Corey


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 4, 2021)

Salt and Smoke meat preservation is an multi millenia old technique and can take days or even Weeks of Smoking to get a properly preserved and tasty product. In modern times we are using smoke as a Flavoring Ingredient, rather than for preservation.  Done well, 12, 24, even 56 hours of Smoke will NOT taste like an Ashtray! I never put less than 12 hours of smoke on Bacon...
The key to success is TBS, Thin Blue Smoke, and why you see hundreds of members with OTBS, Order of the Thin Blue Smoke, Badges in their title. All these guys have Proven they know how to use TBS to make fabulously flavorful Bacon and a host of other Smoked meats that NEVER taste like Ashtrays, a Burning House or have any other Nasty Smoke Flavors...JJ


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

here is a very short video of the set up for the jowl bacon...is it ok?


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 5, 2021)

That is some pretty heavy smoke, whiter than is desirable and it's not venting. Run a test with a chunk of Cheese to see if you will still get an Acrid taste.  Is there any way to generate less smoke?...JJ


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> That is some pretty heavy smoke, whiter than is desirable and it's not venting. Run a test with a chunk of Cheese to see if you will still get an Acrid taste.  Is there any way to generate less smoke?...JJ


 I am using pellets...how long should I test the cheese?

Could I prop the door open a little? Also the vent is open all the way, should I make a new hole in the top?


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

zeekm said:


> I am using pellets...how long should I test the cheese?
> 
> Could I prop the door open a little? Also the vent is open all the way, should I make a new hole in the top?
> 
> Also do wood chips produce less smoke?


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 5, 2021)

Smoke the Cheese 2-3 hours. If creosote is an issue you will taste it.
You need the Inside of the smoker Hotter than the outside air so you'll start drafting and exhausting the smoke.  Try Chips. I dont have that smoke generator to say what to expect...JJ


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

I reomoved the pellets and put chips in and took a short video again.  I put the chips in the smoke generator and let them catch and then unplugged it and that is what the video is showing.  Is this too much smoke?

Chef Jimmy J asked if there was a way to generate less smoke.....I have no clue how to do that.   I just light it and let it burn.  Maybe there is too much combustion air?  Maybe not enough?

I think I may throw the smoker away and start fresh because the inside is black and tarry and it smells like most things out of it taste, bitter/acrid/ash like.  Honestly I have never had anyting come out that was worth mentioning.


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## smokerjim (Jan 5, 2021)

hard to tell if it's to much smoke from video but does seem a little much, the smoke should be almost invisible coming out of the vents, i never used a smoke generator so i'm not sure how to adjust them.   no need to through out the smoker just clean it up a bit and look into making yourself the mailbox mod, i would also get a tray instead of using the tube. i have a mes 30 and use the mailbox with tray this is the amount of smoke i get from that.


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

smokerjim said:


> hard to tell if it's to much smoke from video but does seem a little much, the smoke should be almost invisible coming out of the vents, i never used a smoke generator so i'm not sure how to adjust them.   no need to through out the smoker just clean it up a bit and look into making yourself the mailbox mod, i would also get a tray instead of using the tube. i have a mes 30 and use the mailbox with tray this is the amount of smoke i get from that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The generator is just a heating element that gets the chips burning and once they catch I unplug it.....so I guess it is like the mailbox mod.   This is what it looks like to give you an idea.


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## smokerjim (Jan 5, 2021)

can you put the chips in some tinfoil and poke a few holes in it to maybe limit the smoke.


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

smokerjim said:


> can you put the chips in some tinfoil and poke a few holes in it to maybe limit the smoke.


I could try that.


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## GaryHibbert (Jan 5, 2021)

You don't have the MES plugged in, so the cook chamber temp will be about the same as outside air temp--you won't get a convection current from that.  I would plug the MES in and set the temp a bit above the outside temp.  That will start moving the smoke through the MES and out the exhaust.  I generally set my MES temp in the 80 to 100 degree range.
Gary


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

GaryHibbert said:


> You don't have the MES plugged in, so the cook chamber temp will be about the same as outside air temp--you won't get a convection current from that.  I would plug the MES in and set the temp a bit above the outside temp.  That will start moving the smoke through the MES and out the exhaust.  I generally set my MES temp in the 80 to 100 degree range.
> Gary


Sad news.....it is not heating up...have to ohm out the element and trouble shoot.


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## GaryHibbert (Jan 5, 2021)

zeekm said:


> Sad news.....it is not heating up...have to ohm out the element and trouble shoot.



Man, your luck is running on empty.
If you haven't already started your jowl bacon, I'd suggest delaying.
Gary


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## zeekm (Jan 5, 2021)

GaryHibbert said:


> Man, your luck is running on empty.
> If you haven't already started your jowl bacon, I'd suggest delaying.
> Gary


Yeah it’s ok.   I actually took a hot piece of charcoal and put it in the cabinet.  That helped raise the temperature and gets the smoke moving


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 5, 2021)

The Seasoning, Smokey coating in the Cabinet, does seem to contribute to flavor. It stands to reason, that a Nasty Creosote coated smoke cabinet would impart an equally Bad Flavor to meat. A Big Cardboard Box, dowels to hang meat, would be better than continuing with that Past Its Prime, MES...JJ


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## pineywoods (Jan 5, 2021)

If your going to continue to raise pigs you might want to look into building a smokehouse it doesn't have to be huge. Mine is 4x4 about 8' high and I've had 350 lbs of pork bellies in it before and still had some room left.


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## hopkinsb (Jan 5, 2021)

pineywoods said:


> If your going to continue to raise pigs you might want to look into building a smokehouse it doesn't have to be huge. Mine is 4x4 about 8' high and I've had 350 lbs of pork bellies in it before and still had some room left.
> 
> View attachment 478937


Oh, can we see inside?


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## pineywoods (Jan 5, 2021)

I


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## zeekm (Jan 6, 2021)

pineywoods said:


> View attachment 478944
> 
> 
> View attachment 478945
> ...



That looks nice and easy to build.  Not that I want this thread to turn in to the workings of the smoker you built I have to ask....is this for hot and cold smoking?  I have decided that the inside of my MES is just too far gone becasue when I open the door it smells like a tangy ashtray....time to get a new one.


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## pineywoods (Jan 6, 2021)

zeekm said:


> That looks nice and easy to build.  Not that I want this thread to turn in to the workings of the smoker you built I have to ask....is this for hot and cold smoking?  I have decided that the inside of my MES is just too far gone becasue when I open the door it smells like a tangy ashtray....time to get a new one.



Sorry for the side track I use it for cold smoking and doing sausage


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## dirtworldmike (Jan 8, 2021)

zeekm said:


> here is a very short video of the set up for the jowl bacon...is it ok?



Little off topic but I have the same smoker and I put  an exhaust pipe on it to get more  draft and air flow to keep clean TBS  moving through it. It really made a big difference.

 I just used a piece of that thin stove/vent pipe that you get at HD or Lowes . It's the stuff that  you just roll  and it locks together to make a tube.   I used a 3" piece that was 24" long and it fits perfect in the top vent hole. I also took off that vent adjuster thingee..


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