# Imitation Venison Bacon



## olecrosseyes (Jan 2, 2021)

60% Ground deer and 40% pork shoulder mixed with "Excalibur, Imitation Bacon" seasonings and loafed.

My first attempt at this. All ground meats should be finished to 160 degrees IT according to the USDA.
Yet some where I have read for this to go to 145 IT. I know some of you take deer summer sausage to 155 degrees.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 2, 2021)

Should I worry about finish temp lower than USDA 160 when it will still get pan fried?


----------



## gmc2003 (Jan 2, 2021)

Sorry I can't help you with the temp issue, but it sounds delicious. Maybe 

 chef jimmyj
  or 

 daveomak
 will sign on soon. They'd be the folks with a more definitive answer.

Chris


----------



## Sowsage (Jan 2, 2021)

Here are charts that 

 daveomak
  posted.  Scroll down to post #26 to get what your looking for......if you pull at 145° it only needs to stay at 145° for a short period of time to pasturize. USDA only tells you temp.... Not time and temp. 
Lower temps at longer time will be safe.






						PASTEURIZATION TABLE... or..  how to safely cook your food to a lower internal temperature..
					

...  I would use a vacuum tub to suck all the stuff into the meat...   I have found 3 pulses does good....   Vac... release...  Vac... release.... Vac... release and the liquid it all sucked into the meat...    dry on paper towels then into the smoker or dehydrator.....   Nitrite starts to break...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


----------



## chef jimmyj (Jan 2, 2021)

The USDA temp of 165 for any ground meat is a " Fool Proof " Guideline for the general public. We know that bacteria are killed at lower temps, given time. This lets us heat our ground meats to lower temps 145-150, and be perfectly safe. You are correct that Frying before eating would kill any survivors. But at fully cooked, you can eat as is if you choose...JJ


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 2, 2021)

_Are these a good representation for Non-Intact beef? 
Bench trim, ground beef, needle tenderized steaks, and marinated vacuum tumbled raw beef finished products _


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 2, 2021)

Well, here they are, 145 and 147 degrees IT.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 2, 2021)

You've gotta hold the meat at that temp for awhile to kill all the bugs...


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 2, 2021)

Thanks yall, it stayed above 142 for over a half hour. 
I'll slice em tomorrow and vac into portions.
Each will be fried before serving too. I'm not worried.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Jan 2, 2021)

olecrosseyes said:


> _Are these a good representation for Non-Intact beef?
> Bench trim, ground beef, needle tenderized steaks, and marinated vacuum tumbled raw beef finished products _



Yes, along with Injected, Punctured to add Garlic and Herbs, Etc and Boned, Rolled and Tied. If Cure #1 is added, you have littke to worry about. But any of these and Your examples, you need to make haste getting the IT to 140°F. We prefer 4 hours or less...JJ


----------



## daveomak (Jan 3, 2021)

olecrosseyes said:


> Should I worry about finish temp lower than USDA 160 when it will still get pan fried?



OCE, morning...   Well, I hope I'm not a PITA....
Ground meats are one of the most contaminated meats you can eat in your kitchen..  Bacteria and other contaminants can get introduced from surfaces, tools, etc....
Considering maybe poultry from yesterday can be introduced from who knows where....
When processing ground meats, it is a worthwhile consideration to thermally process said ground beef to poultry specifications to be on the safe side....
Salmonella and other bugs that frequent poultry are difficult to kill, comparatively speaking and can do some long term damage to us humans.... 
So, don't take temperature pasteurization lightly.....
Spores from the contaminants are not necessarily killed at lower temperatures..  
Botulism has spores that require ~ 240F to be done in...  Pressure canner temp..

Below is a pasteurization table for poultry....
Temperature........ Time .............Time
°F...... (°C) ...........1% fat ...........12% fat
136 (57.8)........... 64 min......... 81.4 min
137 (58.3) .........51.9 min....... 65.5 min
138 (58.9)......... 42.2 min....... 52.9 min
139 (59.4) ........34.4 min........ 43 min
140 (60.0)....... 28.1 min ........35 min
141 (60.6)....... 23 min ............28.7 min
142 (61.1)..... 18.9 min........... 23.7 min
143 (61.7) .....15.5 min.......... 19.8 min
144 (62.2) .....12.8 min.......... 16.6 min
145 (62.8)..... 10.5 min .........13.8 min
146 (63.3) .....8.7 min ...........11.5 min
148 (64.4) .....5.8 min............7.7 min
150 (65.6) ......3.8 min ..........4.9 min
152 (66.7) ......2.3 min.......... 2.8 min
154 (67.8) .......1.5 min .........1.6 min
156 (68.9) ........59 sec............ 1 min
166 (74.4) ..........0 sec ............0 sec
Table C.2: Pasteurization times for a 7D reduction in Salmonella for chicken and turkey (FSIS, 2005).


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 3, 2021)

First to clarify, my loaf has cure #1 in it. I could have assumed that pork and deer could have followed the poultry chart to some degree but I needed to get this right in my head.

Thanks Dave once again for the poultry chart. I've had that soon after you had posted it here many years ago. 
"Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork ." If you had posted this many years ago too, I missed it. 

My hang up was understanding what the definition of "Non-Intact" is. Then understanding what qualifies as non-intact meat.

Dave, your poultry table is the culprit for the wife converting from the dark meat only when I fix yard birds to now I HAVE TO SHARE its breasts!!  It used to be I had them all to myself, no more thanks to you!  You've done us a good thing, thank you Mr. Omak.


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 3, 2021)

When I cut the loaves in half to wrap and chill last night, we remarked how much like summer sausage it looked like. O Duh! because it was 2x ground using the fine plate, oh stupid me, wonder why.

Has any one used the stuffing plate to chunk grind 2x's and then loaf a product? In my head i'm thinking of a finished product that would resemble structure strand board.

I'm going to slice n fry up some for breakie this morning and see how it turned out. I will let y'all know later.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Jan 3, 2021)

The whole point of adding Nitrite Cure is Nitrite Inhibits Clostridium Botulinum spores, Salmonella and Listeria from growing. The addition of Cure #1 and following Ground Pork Pasteurization is perfectly Safe. Of course following Dave's Poultry Temps won't hurt...JJ☺

Borrowed from FSIS/USDA...

*How Do Nitrates and Nitrites Prevent Botulism?*
Nitrites are used in certain cured meat and poultry products to inhibit the growth of the bacterial spores of _C. botulinum_. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) authorized the use of nitrite in meat and poultry products beginning in 1925.



			https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/fsis-content/internet/main/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/foodborne-illness-and-disease/clostridium-botulinum/ct_index#:~:text=Nitrites%20are%20used%20in%20certain,poultry%20products%20beginning%20in%201925
		

.


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 4, 2021)

I had always thought that USDA for ground beef was 160 and all poultry was 165?  Thanks Jimmy, I will correct my notes.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Jan 4, 2021)

Again USDA " Fool Proof" Guidelines. We ar talking, guaranteed instantaneous Death that a New Cook or occasional cook, can easily remember and follow. We are talking Safety, not Quality cooking to these temps. Can you imagine trying to explain,  *Commuted Meat Pasteurization Temperatures and the Effect of Nitrite on Bacterial Growth, *to your Spouse that can make EGGS, anyway you want, as long as they are SCRAMBLED!... JJ


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 5, 2021)

Could we eat store bought eggs right out of the shell, because they are already pasteurized?  I'm thinking homemade eggnog.
Oh wait, the eggs get separated and then I gotta whip the crap out of them.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 6, 2021)

I have pasteurized many eggs.....    I have a cocktail, Ramos Fizz, that I put "raw" eggs in...  Then in the blender....  with frozen OJ etc...


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 6, 2021)

Interesting Dave, I read the background on  Henry Charles “Carl” Ramos . 15 minutes of shaking whether it was in 1888 or now, wholey cow my arms tired!


----------



## daveomak (Jan 8, 2021)

olecrosseyes said:


> Interesting Dave, I read the background on  Henry Charles “Carl” Ramos . 15 minutes of shaking whether it was in 1888 or now, wholey cow my arms tired!



Morning....   The blender has made the Fizz easy to make.....
Well, the fizz I make is another variation on the 50 or so listed, from what was taught to me....
1 pasteurized egg in 2-4 oz. of London Dry Gin... 1 TBS. powdered sugar.... Blend....
4 oz. of crushed ice....
3-4 oz. whole chilled milk...
4 oz. frozen concentrated Orange juice with pulp...  blend...  until it thickens like an Orange Julius type drink....  I think that comes from the egg white....  and the drink starting to freeze...

I originally had it with frozen concentrated lime juice....  too sour....
I have to adjust the sweetness so it's not too sweet...   Just enough to tame the tang so it went down _EASY_...  _EASY_ being the key word.....  It's was usually with a Sunday morning breakfast, "let's start the day mellowed" type thing...  readying for football and BBQ...  then nap during the football game...  HA....   I was about 30 years younger then...

.....


----------



## olecrosseyes (Jan 12, 2021)

indaswamp, crazymoon,  chopsaw and chef jimmyj
Thank all of you for the "Likes", Ya'll are the best!


----------

