# I botched my first batch of sockeye....please help!



## suezi (Jan 26, 2015)

i just kinda botched my first ever attempt at smoking sockeye that we caught this summer on the Kenai..

 
here's what we did....thawed frozen fillets, washed, dried, brined (4C dark brown sugar and 1 C kosher salt), let brine for 10 hours. took out. ( there was still some brown sugar on the bottom of the bin that didn't dissolve-maybe we didn't brine it long enough?), rinsed. put on racks to dry for 4 hours (with a small fan). NO PELLICLE but a little (very little) tacky feeling (maybe we didn't dry it long enough)

. smoked in big chief (wrapped in insulated blanket) for 4 hours. used 3 pans of alder chips, which we changed out every 45 minutes (3 times, then finished the smoking with out adding more chips),outside temp was about 71 degrees, no wind. the fish came out dry with a hard, leathery top. what did we do wrong??????????

 
we want to do more batches, but am afraid until i hear from some experts. thanks


----------



## bluewhisper (Jan 26, 2015)

Welcome to the board! Sounds like too much smoke/time. You can really play around with salmon and make it hot and fast or cool and slow. Even if it turns out dry and intense, it can go into a spread for snacking in small amounts.


----------



## mdboatbum (Jan 26, 2015)

I'm no expert, but the results you got sound like exactly what I'd expect from the method you used. The question is, what results were you trying to get? The importance of the pellicle gets blown way out of proportion around here in my opinion. Yes, you want proteins on the surface to aid in the absorption of smoke, and yes, you want the surface to be somewhat dry. However, drying in front of a fan for hours can't help but create that leathery shell. That's great for jerky, but it sounds like you just wanted a nice piece of smoked fish for dinner. Next time just blot it with a paper towel and sit it on the counter (use the fan if you must) just until it's tacky on the surface. About a half hour. As for the dry meat, you simply overcooked it. The smoker you used runs at a pretty low temperature if I remember correctly, which is good. But its not cold smoking it. Use a meat thermometer and take the fish only to 145f. It'll be cooked through but still moist. It should also have plenty of smoke flavor. If not, invest in a cold smoke generator.


----------



## timberjet (Jan 26, 2015)

First of all welcome to the site. I just finished a whole bunch of steelhead and I did it like I always do it and it came out great. I think you might have been trying to acheive the texture of store bought smoked salmon? Or lox? Is that correct? I like my fish like good thick soft jerky. It lasts and holds up well in the backpack. If you are going for a more candied and delicate texture you will have to change your procedure. What was the temperature of the smoker? What was the air temp? Did your brine consist of anything else other than what you listed? That is a pretty low salt brine in my opinion but I don't know if that is what happened or not. I smoked my last batch for 30 hours with apple in the little cheif and it did not get too hard at all. I brined for 48 hours and air dried with a fan at room temp for 8 hours. Was the skin on or off? Pictures would help.


----------



## suezi (Jan 26, 2015)

mdboatbum, thanks for the quick response...

we are looking for a moist smoked fish. we had some professionally smoked in alaska and it was just what we wanted to achieve here-moist, not leathery.

before i received your reply, i was thinking we didn't dry it long enough after brining. but you're saying just the opposite, which makes sense. when we let it dry (with fan) it was already appearing leathery and tough. thought that was what we were trying to achieve, but i guess not.

so, here are our thoughts now...

after brining, dry as you suggested. then we'll smoke it without the insulated blanket. maybe the smoker temp got too high with the insulation. we're in arizona so it's pretty warm (high 60's, low 70's).

i truly appreciate your help---we worked hard to catch the fish and process it in alaska and don't want to ruin it -

suezi


----------



## suezi (Jan 26, 2015)

timberjet,

i don't think i want "lox" texture, but also don't want "jerky" texture...looking for a semi-moist smokey taste. we used kosher salt (1 cup) for each 4 cups of dark brown sugar. also added minced garlic (lots!)...

the flavor we got was good-maybe a bit too smoky. we used alder chips but will probably try to start with alder than switch to apple or cherry for the second (and third) pans.

i'll try to get some pictures posted at various stages soon.

thanks,

suezi


----------



## gary s (Jan 26, 2015)

Sorry about your fish, boy did I just learn a bunch

gary


----------



## suezi (Jan 26, 2015)

bluewhisper,

yes, we love smoked salmon salad (made with cream cheese and sour cream)...so do all our friends! we've gotten invited to so many homes since we got home from alaska!   :)

so, the taste of our first batch isn't bad-a bit too smokey perhaps (we'll switch to apple or cherry after the first alder pan)

the meat is just very dry (but not quite jerky). we just made brunch with scrambled eggs and the salmon and it was good.

we just need to figure out what dried it---too much cooking time (we can't adjust heat on the big chief) or too short of a drying time...but, after what i just read, maybe we dried it too long...it was leathery before we put it in smoker....

so confusing


----------



## suezi (Jan 26, 2015)

gary s

yes, that's what is great about forums...we all learn from each other!

so glad there are so many people willing to help...!     :)


----------



## azbohunter (Jan 26, 2015)

Hi Suzi,

I too live in AZ and smoke salmon but from PNW. Hitting AK next year though.

I pat my fish dry with paper towels and leave it under a fan till it is dry and tacky to the touch.

I think the insulated blanket might have cause your chief smoker to run warmer than you wanted! I brine mine in a wet brine and smoke for 6 hours starting out at 100 or 110 and taking it to 170. I pull the fish at 145 IT and it comes out very good. My very first batch was like leather, I contributed that failure to have cutting my pieces to small and using to much heat.

I know that those using the Chief smokers in colder climates wrap them or put them in a box to help keep them warm. Don't think that is needed in Arizona unless you start out smoking very early in the morning on one of our "winter" days.

If you are interested in trying a wet brine..I have one that everyone loves that has tried it.

Good luck with your next attempt, Sockeye is terrific smoked! I had some done with my recipe by a friend at Thanksgiving and it was awesome.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 26, 2015)

If you want to make Kippered salmon, you need a really fatty fish....    it is brined and rinsed and dried with toweling.. placed in a 120 degree smoker for an hour, no smoke dampers wide open so the fish will dry..  a fan can be used to dry also....  then heavy smoke while the temp is raised to 225 degrees in the smoker...   about 2 hours it is done.....  the salmon is usually cut into 2-3" wide strips from belly to back....  essentially it is a baked smoked fish...  the 120 no smoke time is used to form a pellicle....  the pellicle is the most important part of the process as it totally seals the fish so there is no moisture loss....   It is tough to do without practice...


----------



## suezi (Jan 26, 2015)

azbohunter,

first, i'm envious of your upcoming trip to alaska. we feel so lucky to have been able to spend a lot of time there in our rv. we've been there a couple of times-if you haven't been there and want any info i'd be happy to help out...

as for the fish-what is your recipe? would love to see it.

thanks


----------



## azbohunter (Jan 26, 2015)

Sent a PM......


----------



## cmayna (Jan 27, 2015)

image.jpg



__ cmayna
__ Jan 27, 2015







suezi,
Sorry it took me so long to chime in.  Wuz too busy smokin'   I heard you like your Salmon a little crunchy....yes?    LOL

I guess my first question is, were you smoking your Chinook to make an entrée dish or just a typical (if there really is one) smoked salmon dish which to me is like a side dish or something you normally serve with cream cheese & crackers, etc.  If an entrée then I could see why you might want it a little moisture and delicate, maybe something between what I call the typical smoked salmon and lox.  I have never attempted to make smoked salmon as an entrée as I described above.  Most of my Salmon main dishes are grilled on a cedar plank, etc.

Brine-The brine you describe is very similar to what I do (4/1 ratio of dk brown sugar / salt + lots of minced garlic).   I have had great success with it.
My "typical" filet process is, brine for 7 hours,  rinse and room dry for 2 hours (no fan), smoke for 3+ hours until I reach and IT (internal temp) of 140*  Of course if the filet's are extra thick then I up my brine and smoking times.

Thermometers - Looks like you need to get a digital dual probe thermometer to watch the temp of the smoker as well as the IT of the fish,  but honestly for fish, I only watch the temp of the smoker and when I have reached near the 3 hour mark then I'll use my thermapen to briefly check the IT of the fish.  I do not leave a probe inserted in the fish all the time.

Mr. Big Chief - As you had inquired, yes I have converted both of my big chief smokers to an adjustable 1000 watt element.  Wish I had done this long ago.  Before the conversion, I was using a Auber controller which you plug the chief into the controller.  Plug the controller into your AC outlet.   The controller also has a temp probe that you locate the end somewhere in your smoker.  The controller actually controls the heating element to come on and off as needed to achieve a certain smoker chamber temp.  These controllers are not cheap. Thus when I got my 2nd chief, I figured it was time to think of another way.  Another plus of my conversion is that I now have 1100 watts so if I want to crank up the heat when the air is pretty crispy, I can. I basically rip apart a 5th burner such as the following Proctor Silex and integrate it's guts into the chief.














image.jpg



__ cmayna
__ Jan 27, 2015






If only you lived closer to me for I'd be happy to convert your chief.


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jan 27, 2015)

I agree with Mdboatbum.  The pellicle was formed much earlier, one pan of chips would have been sufficient and it was way overcooked.

Maybe the following will help.  Mr T's "Smoked Salmon From Go to Show" w/Q-View

Suggest you try practicing with a small amount of product each time and make changes slowly, like one at a time.

Hope this helps, relax and enjoy you experiences remembering to keep good notes of your progress.

Tom


----------



## azbohunter (Jan 27, 2015)

That is a pretty inexpensive route for a 1000 watt element!

Looks like a nice mod..


----------



## daveomak (Jan 27, 2015)

The only mod needed......   Right Craig.....  













Burner Mod.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Jan 27, 2015


----------



## cmayna (Jan 27, 2015)

Yup Yup Mr. Totem.

Also a couple more comments to Suezi,  that since I installed the adjustable elements I now "typically" start out at around 130* for an hours, bump to 145* for an hour then 165*+ for another hours until I reach the IT of 140*.    Something you just can't do in a stock chief.


----------



## suezi (Jan 27, 2015)

wow, you guys are great...so many ideas and thanks to all for taking the time to try to help...

i am defrosting another few pieces and will give it another try, using your input.

here's some more stuff i realized that might help you diagnose what i did wrong:

fish is a bit salty tasting. we used 4:1 ratio of dark br sugar to kosher salt with almost a whole head of minced garlic

fish was kinda tough feeling after brining. we left it out for the pellicle to form, but it never got sticky-just tough outer skin

put smoked fish in refrigerator overnight until i had a chance to vac-seal it and there was ALOT of oil (or brine?) in the bottom of the dish when i checked it the next morning...

the fish tastes good (maybe a bit smokier than i'd like-we used alder but will alternate with apple or cherry next time) but it's more like a jerky than i wanted...

in answer to a question above, the fish we had professionally processed in alaska (at $3.95/lb) was lightly smoked and moist. they smoked it with the skin on and when i opened the vac packs, the skin was moist also, yet the meat came away from the skin kinda easy. my smoked fish skin  can be used for shoe leather! (anyone need a new pair of loafers?)

now, in hindsight i wonder if we should've had more fish professionally smoked???  hope we didn't make a mistake!

i'll try again and let everyone know the outcome


----------



## cmayna (Jan 27, 2015)

Try non iodized salt instead of Kosher.

Try 1/3 adler first,  then 2/3 apple or cherry afterwards.

If you can,  try brining using a couple different recipes as some other members have suggested.  Go back and review my dry brine schedule if you are going to do more dry brining.

But most importantly, I totally disagree with your comment about should have had more done professionally.  You can do it.  It's just a learning curve.  If you are going to continue to use a Chief, consider doing the modification I talked about earlier.  You need to control the temp.


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jan 27, 2015)

cmayna said:


> Try non iodized salt instead of Kosher.


Kosher salt is not iodized.

Measure your salt by weight rather than volume.

Tom


----------



## cmayna (Jan 27, 2015)

Oops, I forgot that Kosher is also non iodized. My bad.


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jan 27, 2015)

cmayna said:


> Oops, I forgot that Kosher is also non iodized. My bad.


And why did I know you knew that?  LOL  Dang grey hair.

T


----------



## wagdog (Jan 27, 2015)

You can totally do this. I haven't modified my Big Chief (yet!) but I've smoked lots of fish in it. I only use the insulating blanket when it is less than 60 degrees outside. I do have a hole for an instant read thermometer to go in so I can keep track of the temperature inside the smoker. The last batch of fish I did was when the outside temperature was about 30 degrees so I had the blanket on the entire time. The temperature inside the smoker (according to my thermometer) maxed out at 165 F but that was in the third hour in the smoker when it hit that. I did about 5 pounds of fillets and I use a 4:1 brown sugar to kosher salt ratio for my brine.

If it was too salty to your taste, just drop the salt somewhat. I did a batch of 10 pounds of whitefish fillets and I went with 4 cups of brown sugar to about 3/4 cup of kosher salt. I leave the skin on all the fish I smoke except for catfish. I typically let mine go overnight in the fridge which turns out to be around 12-16 hours but I've gone a lot shorter when I didn't have tons of time.

I've also had some of the salt and sugar not completely dissolve as well. No big deal. I like a lot of smoke flavor but I've found that depending on the thickness of the fillets, I may only do 4 hours with two pans of chips (alder, hickory, and apple are my favorites). Even if I have a lot of thick fillets, I usually only do about two pans of chips. I might throw in a handful of chips after the second full pan turns to ash if I feel like it and let it go for another hour (thicker catfish fillets can even go 6 hours for me if they are big).

I like the fish to be moist on the inside and leaving the skin on (especially on salmonids!) helps retain some of that moisture. I get the internal temp to 140 and that is good enough for me.

Don't give up. There is a ton of great info and helpful people here. I've learned a ton in the short time I've been a member!


----------



## suezi (Jan 28, 2015)

wagdog,

thanks for the encouragement! we have another batch brining now...we just put it in refrigerator at 11:30pm so it will go for at least 8 hours or so...

we'll let it dry (no fan this time) until it's tacky (hopefully we'll get it this time).

then keep track of the IT of the fish. I guess we'll check after 3 hours and see where we stand.

i'll let everyone know how it turns out this time...


----------



## cmayna (Jan 28, 2015)

Depending on how thick your pieces are you might consider checking the temp a little sooner, especially since you cannot control the heating element.  Oh BTW, what model big chief do you have?   Top or front loader?

For most of my salmon smokes, I usually smoke for the first 1.5 - 2 hours.  The remainder of time with no wood.

And just remember........


----------



## suezi (Jan 28, 2015)

we brined for about 15 hours (we intended for 8-10 hours but had an unexpected issue come up that caused us to wait before we could rinse the brined fish).

we just finished rinsing and will air dry over night...

here are pix as we dry them:













smoked 1.jpg



__ suezi
__ Jan 28, 2015


















smoked 2.jpg



__ suezi
__ Jan 28, 2015


















smoked 3.jpg



__ suezi
__ Jan 28, 2015


















smoked 4.jpg



__ suezi
__ Jan 28, 2015






we didn't use the fireball on the salmon, but we did need it after all the work we did!!!!    :)


----------



## azbohunter (Jan 29, 2015)

Keep in mind that the Sockeye fillets are not thick so watch you temp and time....low and slow for me! I do Kokanee which are landlocked Sockeye and usually 16 to 17 inches with head and tail, I still do 6 hours but just watch your temps. That is the key "in my opinion".

Fish looks good at this point! Sockeye have great color!


----------



## coloradoadrian (Jan 29, 2015)

timbejet, I have smoked a couple of batches so far and have left the skin on. Do you have advice on the benefits of either way?


----------



## cmayna (Jan 29, 2015)

suezi,

Looks good. That's a lot of tails.  Who was your guide service?   Capt Steve of Ninilchik?   Looks like his trade mark with the slits.  Can't wait to hear about the finished product.  Azbohunter said the magic words  "watch your temps"   Did you get a thermometer to test the fish after a couple three hours?  To  me being that thin and especially after brining so long, I don't think it will take very long to come up to temp.  

No fireballing while smoking 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   You might forget to temp test.


----------



## gary s (Jan 29, 2015)

Wow that looks great

gary


----------



## suezi (Jan 29, 2015)

got up at 6am to start smoking this morning!

finally put them on at 8am...we are a-smokin' now!!!!   :)

started with 2/3 alder and 1/3 cherry. switched to all cherry after 45 minutes. will open and check after 1 1/2 hours.

no insulating blanket this time...temps about 59 degrees, so i'm hoping that will keep the smoker a bit cooler and slow down the process.

in answer to the questions:

we didn't use a guide. were fortunate to secure an rv spot for 1 month in soldotna, 3 miles from the river. went to river EVERYDAY for 30 days...it was so much fun. we developed a little "family" each morning. stayed until we limited out (3 each). fish was soooooo incredibly fresh and red. hard not to sample some sushi at the rivers edge while my husband cleaned and filleted them..!

yes, they are thin. we chose to smoke the tails and bellies because we think they are tastiest smoked. this saves the thicker body meat for grilling, sauteing, pan frying, etc...we've been eating salmon almost daily since july...we love it!!!

ok, i'll report it soon..

again-thanks to everyone for your help and support...


----------



## suezi (Jan 29, 2015)

just checked the progress after 1 1/2 hours...IT is about 110 degrees. added another pot of cherry.

fireball still untouched!!!   :)


----------



## cmayna (Jan 29, 2015)

I assume while you were at Fred Meyer's in Soldotna that you picked up a couple jars of  the infamous British Columbia Salmon rub?   Fantastic for them thicker pieces you will be baking, grilling or broiling.


----------



## suezi (Jan 29, 2015)

4 1/2 hours and still smoking. cooler temps out today-no sun..

nice, slow cook. i think (hope) that's good...

wish i had $1 for every golfer that went by and commented on the smell!!!!! maybe i should start selling the stuff to pay for my next trip to alaska!


----------



## timberjet (Jan 29, 2015)

coloradoadrian said:


> timbejet, I have smoked a couple of batches so far and have left the skin on. Do you have advice on the benefits of either way?


I personally like to leave it on mostly because no matter how good I spray the grates with non stick pam the dang fish still sticks sometimes. I would rather the skin come off than have my filet fall apart and down into the smoker. Also I think it protects the fish from any spikes in heat like when the chips flare up in a little breeze or something. I just peel it off right before vac. sealing. It is also much easier to peel it off than to have to cut it off. Especially if it isn't a huge fish. Trout are tough to filet good in my opinion. I do it anyway. I actually used to just steak my trout without filleting. You do end up with a bit more meat but the bones are a pain that way..


----------



## suezi (Jan 30, 2015)

ok guys--final report on my smoking saga...

WHO WANTS TO BUY A SLIGHTLY USED BIG CHIEF?????

i think we did everything right. the last batch of fish tastes good but it's so dang dry.

when we had the fish processed professionally in alaska it was moist-no hard outter shell. it tasted slightly smokey (we had some done with garlic/pepper, some cajun).

the fish we smoked ourselves is more like "squaw candy"-it has a hard outter shell, semi-dry meat. it's tasty ( i added cayenne pepper and garlic to the brine) and then added additional lemon pepper to some pieces, montreal steak seasoning to other pieces, and left some without additional seasoning.  i even experimented by putting in two pieces without brining at all. it still dried out.

i used a regular meat thermometer and cooked unitl IT was 140-145 (it was hard to tell since the tails are so small).

however, we also smoked the bellies and they are juicier (more oil in them ) and moister.

maybe what i consider to be smoked fish is different than what you can achieve at home.

now i don't feel so bad about spending $4/lb to have the fish processed and vac-sealed in soldotna.

live and learn......


----------



## cmayna (Jan 30, 2015)

Suezi,
I wish we were closer so we could do a taste sampling of what you like from Soldotna and the results  of what you have smoked.  I would also have you taste what I make.  Sigh......


----------



## azbohunter (Jan 30, 2015)

Sueiz,

Sorry to hear............remember how close we are to each other. I think I am going to drag some Chinook out of the freezer over the weekend and fire up the smoker. Might get a sample your way next week if interested.

Sorry, I don't have Sockeye but ahhhh, I do have some Kokanee.  Same fish, just never seen salt water.

Dick


----------



## cmayna (Jan 30, 2015)

Suezi,
If you decide to do another batch after reading a few more upcoming replies here,  please do a smaller batch.  I thought your 2nd batch was simply way too big based upon the results of your first batch.


----------



## wagdog (Jan 31, 2015)

Hey suezi,

cmayna is giving you some great advice as well as others on the thread. Did you let the fish dry in the fridge overnight or out on a counter at room temp? I typically only dry mine for 1-2 hours with a small electric fan if I'm in a hurry. I don't wait until it is completely dry on the outside either. I like what cmayna said about batch size. I think the most I have ever done in my big chief (I have the front load version) is maybe around 8-10 pounds at a time. Granted it can do more but I started with very small batches (maybe 3 pounds of fillets) at first until I developed the level of smoke and flavors that I wanted. 

I just re-read this from your last post:


> i think we did everything right. the last batch of fish tastes good but it's so dang dry.
> 
> when we had the fish processed professionally in alaska it was moist-no hard outter shell. it tasted slightly smokey (we had some done with garlic/pepper, some cajun).
> 
> ...


It sounds to me like maybe what they did in alaska was a quick hot smoke of the salmon. The fish that I smoke have a somewhat hard (I would think firm would describe it better) outer shell and the inside is flaky and moist. Less so than if I had baked or grilled some fillets. I hope you don't give up yet. There is still a lot you can do with a big chief. Makes great jerky and smoked cheese in my never to be humble opinion.


----------

