# Havig trouble getting up to temp



## sammy d (Nov 4, 2013)

Okay guys, here's the deal. I bought a large smoker at a church auction (See photo below). I got'er all seasoned up and decided to throw on some chicken wings. They turned out fantastic however, it took a little over 5 hours. From the information I get on the forums I figured about 2.5 hrs at 200 or so. The problem is that I couldn't get this unit much over 150-175. It did spike at 200 for a short period of time but when I opened it to spritz the wings (Very quickly) the temp fell and would not come back up.  I used a full bag of hardwood charcoal and 5 or 6 chunks of Applewood. The damper on the stack was left wide open and so was the one on the fire box.. Now, I don't mind smoking for long periods of time but if it takes 5 hours to do about 50 wings, I can imagine how long it will take to do a brisket or port butt. Any ideas?

Also, How do I post a new tread on an area other than "Roll Call?"













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__ sammy d
__ Nov 2, 2013


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## kc5tpy (Nov 4, 2013)

Hello Sammy and welcome to the fun.  Many good folk here with a load of experience that they are more than willing to share.  If you have specific questions just start a thread and someone with experience will be along soon to offer advice.  All info you can provide us with such as smoker type, location and so on will help us answer any questions you may have.  Spend some time doing some research on the forums, tons of advice and recipes already available there.  As to your questions: Without meat, get a fire going in there to create smoke.  BIG smoke!  You can even spray a little water on the coals to create BIG white smoke.  What you want to do is see where the smoke leaks are.  Mark the leaks and when the smoker cools seal every leak you can using stove rope, high temp silicone and such.  Next, if you have a thin flimsy fire grate use it as a template and build or have built a grate out of 1/2" concrete reinforcing steel ( rebar ).  That thin grate will sag with heat and will rest on the ash cutting off air flow to your coals.  No air flow no heat.  Other option is build a charcoal basket.  You can find baskets in the build section.  Leave that exhaust fully open and use the intake vent to control the heat.  Last tip is go buy a cheap garden trowel.  Knock the wooden handle off and weld a 2-2 1/2' piece of that rebar to the shovel.  Now you can gently scoop out the ash without them blowing all over your meat and you won't burn your hands.  I can'y tell from the pict, but your intake needs to be below your fire grate.  Look right above your thread title.  You will see Forum Nav:  and a drop down menu with Roll Call in it.  Use the drop down to select the forum you want to post in and Go.  Each forum has Start a New Thread above all the posts there.  Hope this helps.  We look forward to your contributions.  Have fun.  Good luck.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## cliffcarter (Nov 4, 2013)

How much charcoal did you use at the beginning to start the fire? It is possible that you did not use enough fuel at the beginning of the cook.

Your pit looks like it is more suited to being used as a stickburner rather than using charcoal for fuel.

Two observations- the firebox looks a bit undersized given the size of the cook chamber and the exhaust stack looks to be too tall and the pipe itself may be a bit undersized, both of which maybe inhibiting your airflow.


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## gary s (Nov 4, 2013)

Also check your temp gauge to make sure it is reading correctly.  Does the Fire box to cook chamber opening have a damper or is it just an opening?

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 4, 2013)

The opening from the fire box to the cook chamber is fixed (Not adjustable). The builder welded a small sheet of metal at an angle. The opening is about 5 or 6 inches long with about a 1.5 inch opening. The opening itself isn't square so it tapers down to a little over an inch on one side.


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## sammy d (Nov 4, 2013)

I started off using about half the bag with a few chunks of Apple Wood. I ended up placing the bag in the fire box along with what was left of the charcoal and a couple more chunks of wood.


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## gary s (Nov 4, 2013)

Check Feldon's Pit Calculator    You can put your cook chamber size and firebox size and it will calculate the recommended FB to CC opening size. Then you can see if your smoker is close.  Sometimes (not saying your builder) does not pay attention or calculate the opening sizes correctly. This can cause the problems you are experiencing. This would be a good place to start. (Process of elimination)

Gary


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## cliffcarter (Nov 4, 2013)

Sammy D said:


> The opening from the fire box to the cook chamber is fixed (Not adjustable). The builder welded a small sheet of metal at an angle. The opening is about 5 or 6 inches long with about a 1.5 inch opening. The opening itself isn't square so it tapers down to a little over an inch on one side.


This may be most, if not all, of the problem, the opening from the firebox needs to be bigger for sure.

Scroll down to post #4 to use the pit calculator to find the correct size for the opening-

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/136550/first-build-patio-rf-50-gallon-lefty-version


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## gary s (Nov 4, 2013)

I must have skimmed over the 5" or 6" x 1.5" opening  looking at the picture of your smoker I would say that probably is the cause. Run the dimensions of your smoker in the Feldon's and you can see how much you need to increase the opening size

Gary


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## metaldoctor21 (Nov 5, 2013)

cliffcarter said:


> This may be most, if not all, of the problem, the opening from the firebox needs to be bigger for sure.
> Scroll down to post #4 to use the pit calculator to find the correct size for the opening-
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/136550/first-build-patio-rf-50-gallon-lefty-version





gary s said:


> I must have skimmed over the 5" or 6" x 1.5" opening  looking at the picture of your smoker I would say that probably is the cause. Run the dimensions of your smoker in the Feldon's and you can see how much you need to increase the opening size
> 
> Gary





I agree with everyone.  I had a similar problem with my first smoker build that I just finished up.  One of my problems was my firebox to cooking chamber opening started out to small.  Opening that up to the proper size improved my draft and increased the temp in the cooking chamber.  I would definetly start their.

Ryan


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## venture (Nov 5, 2013)

Can't tell for sure from the pic?

That looks like a big smoker with a big firebox?

I would agree to question how temps were measured?

But mostly?  1.5 inch opening from such a big firebox into such a big smoker?  Doesn't seem like that is going to work?

Even with everything optimized?  That smoker is going to consume some fuel.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## gary s (Nov 6, 2013)

Sammy,  Gary here    again measure your smoker and put all your dimensions in the Feldon's pit calculator and you can compare everything.  That would be the first thing I would do. Then you can start the process of correction from there.

Looks like you have a nice smoker, probably just need a few tweaks. and you will be pumping out thin blue smoke and higher cooking temps in no time.

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 7, 2013)

I've seen a couple of references on "Feldon's Pit Calculator." Where can I find it and where do I measure?


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## gary s (Nov 7, 2013)

Here is the site       http://www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.html

Just study it , measure and fill in the blanks, you will get pretty close I do think the fire box to cook chamber opening is to small

Gary


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## gary s (Nov 7, 2013)

CC size    CC Cook Chamber    length and diameter     FB  Fire Box   Length , height  width    Smoke stack    diameter and length   Also should have some type of damper opening in the fire box  round, square ?   measure those

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanx Gary. Took some measurements and entered them. I'm going to do it again to see if I can get a more accurate. My stack is 40" tall and that falls at the maximum height. It is 4"square making it16" all the way around.


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## gary s (Nov 7, 2013)

When you run your CC and FB size it will show you how big the opening should be, than you can make your mod's from there. Also be sure and check the vents/damper size in the firebox.  If you can snap a few pictures of your FB door and inside the fire box as well,

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 8, 2013)

Okay, This morning about 30 min. ago I loaded up the firebox with hardwood charcoal and two sticks of mesquite. I then went in to prepare my chicken wings for the cooker. When I came out to put them in, the temp was 175. I thought "Well that's okay for now, the last batch hovered around 150 or so." I put the wings on and added a few chunks of Apple wood and went inside. About 15 min. later I went out to check it. The temp was about 210. In fact, I had to restrict the air flow a little to get it down to 200. It's now running around 210. You may be right about the stick burner thing.  Problem is that the smoke is still white and my wings are in there. I'm kinda used to that because in the past, I never knew about "Clear blue smoke." How long does it normally take for the clear stuff to happen?

I guess I need to be more patient and wait awhile before I put my meat in?

I guess I need to load her up and use more wood then watch her. Anyway, things are looking good right now except for the white smoke. I'll check back later and let you know how things are going.

Thanx all for your help.


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## gary s (Nov 8, 2013)

Did you ever check your FB to CC opening   I really think it is to small  If you loaded it up with charcoal and wood in an hours time you should have been up over 300 degrees. I am jus saying that if all your getting is 210 with all that you have a problem. I am quite sure there will be things you will want to cook the will need more than 210. You look like you have a nice smoker and you want to get the most out of it without working yourself to death. Take some pictures of the firebox, firebox door, air adjustments and open your door and get a shot of the FB to CC opening. We are standing by and ready to help.

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 8, 2013)

Hi Gary, I think I may have gone to 300 if I hadn't slowed down the air flow. The temp is holding around 215 and I'm getting clear blue smoke. I did have to stir  the coals a little about 20 min ago. I have a pic of the FB to CC opening but I still need to download it. After this cook, I will shoot the rest of the stuff. I plan to keep my temps below 250 unless I need to get up there for a specific reason like multiple briskets or turkeys or other large hunk of meats.  So far, so good. I'll keep you posted.


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## gary s (Nov 8, 2013)

Great, I do most of my cooking at 225, but on occasion I'll bump it up.  I wanted to make sure you were not having to use more fuel than necessary to maintain your temp.  I am thinking out loud, with your FB to CC opening being way smaller than it should be, You can get the CC temps up but you are having to use more charcoal/wood to accomplish this. With a larger opening more heat and smoke can get to the Cook Chamber faster and hold heat better, that way smaller fire, less fuel and easier on you.  Just Saying

 I love smoking as much as anyone, but I don't want to have to use more fuel than necessary and spend my time monitoring it to make sure it stays up to temp. Since you live in Irving you and I have about the same seasonal temps. I like to smoke all year round and when it gets cold it will effect your smoker temps, so you want it to be doing its job and not make it harder on you.

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 8, 2013)

I just checked the wings. Temp still holding around 210-215. However, some of the ones closest to the FB are done (almost over done) and others around the middle and near the far end are not done. I do plan to stick them on the grill to crisp them up some though. Another thing I noticed is that the smoky flavor isn't there or not as much as I would like. The last batch was much better for some reason. I added a couple of more sticks of Mesquite to see if I can get some more smoky flavor but I'm gonna have to pull them pretty soon. Also, I noticed that all the heat seems to be setting right next to the air vent in he FB. Not much of the charcoal and wood seems to be burnt on the far side. All my ashes are next to the air inlet.


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## gary s (Nov 8, 2013)

Still sounds like you are having an air flow problem. Once you are done with the wings, post your pictures and measurements and I along with other members will help you get your smoker tuned in.

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 8, 2013)

Thanx Gary, will do.


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## sammy d (Nov 10, 2013)

Okay, I cleaned up the cooker today and took some pictures and re-measured everything. so, here goes.

First, the airway from the firebox to the Cook chamber. Dimensions are  10 x 3 with the opening at 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches.













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The firebox is 49 x 23 x 23 inches













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 Inside dimensions of the cook chamber are 49 x 23 x 23













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The circumference of the CC is 80 inches. The stack is 40 inches (at the max) and 4 x 4 square.













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The air vent opening is 5 1/2 x 3 1/2 at max opening.













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__ sammy d
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## sammy d (Nov 10, 2013)

The wings I cooked Friday came out great and were a big hit. The temp held around 215 for about 4.5 hours. I then put them on the grill for about 10 min to crisp them up a bit..

I want to do something bigger like a brisket or pork loin but I want to be more comfortable with my air flow and fuel selection first.


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## gary s (Nov 11, 2013)

Glad to see the pictures, I think that FB to CC  opening is to small. I have asked Dave Omak to take a look at your post, Dave has probably forgot more about RF smokers than most of us will ever know. Let's see if his assessment is the same. I am hoping this will be an easy fix.

Gary


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## daveomak (Nov 11, 2013)

Sammy morning.......  Looking at your smoker, a few things will help it.....

First, the fire needs to be elevated on an expanded metal screen so it is 4" above the bottom of the FB......

The FB to CC opening needs to be opened up to 48 sq in. if you leave the stack in it's same location....  

If you make it a Reverse flow smoker, open it up to 72 sg in...  

The opening would work best if it is cut to the contour of the FB and cut up 4" from the bottom of the FB to a horizontal line 17 1/2" wide.

In that smoker, it should have tuning plates... 18" long and 3-4" wide..... 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/54542/building-an-italian-offset-smoker








The plates must be installed above the FB/CC opening and run full length of the smoker with small openings between each plate...

The lid to the FB needs seals so it is air tight....  Check to see the CC door is air tight....

The chimney exhaust stack is too tall and draws too much air, cooling the CC....  cut it to 28" above the CC.....

When all of that is done, cut an additional adjustable air inlet to the FB directly across from the FB/CC opening....  3" down from the FB top plate, 1" X 3".....   That will improve heat flow and reduce the temp in the FB and reduce fuel usage......

That's where I would start.....     

Dave


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## gary s (Nov 11, 2013)

I knew Dave would help.  Hope all this makes sense to you. You have a real nice smoker, now you'll have a great smoker. What you want is a smoker that doesn't work you to death and use twice as much fuel as it should. I know from experience from my early years. No pit calculators, no SMF hey no internet, only trial and error. You will see a big difference with these mod's.

Gary


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## gary s (Nov 12, 2013)

Sammy, have you had a chance to do any of the mod's yet?   Be sure and keep us posted

Gary


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## gary s (Nov 12, 2013)

Sammy, another thought. You said you got the smoker at a church auction. I am thinking if you contact the person at the church who was responsible for getting the smoker, they could get in touch with whoever built it in the first place. More than likely if you go over the problems and suggested modifications he could probably take care of this. Most welders and fabricators I know want the customer to be happy. And if he builds many of these it would be good information for him in the future.

Gary


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## sammy d (Nov 13, 2013)

Hi Gary,

I haven't had a chance to work on my cooker yet but I do plan to talk to the builder. I won't be able to do many mods as suggested. I don't have the welding skills nor any equipment. I do however plan to take about1/4 inch or so from the fixed damper from the FB to the CC. I also plan to use more wood than charcoal. I might go to straight wood. I used a lot last time and didn't have any trouble with temp.

I'll keep you informed.

Thanx,

Sam


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## gary s (Nov 13, 2013)

Do talk to the builder, You want to get the most out of your smoker, Trust me you will see a difference.

Gary


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## daveomak (Nov 13, 2013)

Sammy D said:


> Hi Gary,
> 
> I haven't had a chance to work on my cooker yet but I do plan to talk to the builder. I won't be able to do many mods as suggested. I don't have the welding skills nor any equipment. *I do however plan to take about1/4 inch or so from the fixed damper from the FB to the CC.* I also plan to use more wood than charcoal. I might go to straight wood. I used a lot last time and didn't have any trouble with temp.
> 
> ...


Sam......  Cut the entire fixed damper out......   get rid of it.....   It is a negative attribute to your smoker.....


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## sammy d (Nov 13, 2013)

Thanx Dave. That is something I have thought about. I was thinking if I did it might produce too much heat. I've had that problem on other cookers but they weren't set up like this one. They were more of a grill than a smoker.


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