# I will NOT give up on my AMZNPS !



## beuler (Jan 10, 2014)

Last Night was my second try with this thing....I have the MES 40 with window, Control panel in the Front. Live in ND ( elevation) 

I was trying Jerky which came out like meat strips ( another story) . This is what i did with all the tips from Todd (Awesome Gentleman ) and all of you. 

Microwaved about one rows worth of Hickory and Oak for 2 minutes. Oak because it burns the easiest you all say....

Opened the vent wide open.

Lit the pellets with a Torch, let burn for a good long time, blew it out (nice cherry) , Blew harder to flame it up some more! Now its Cookin!

I even pulled the water pan out, slide open the bottom drip pan a little and , Pulled the chip loader all the way out for max air.

It burnt for a bit then went out about a half inch in.

I have it placed above where the water pan would be ( Todd told me to).

Any comments?   Sorry Tryke, i tried. I told you i would figure this out.

Think i might mix wood chips or dust with the pellets??
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






TY All , Joe


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## mdboatbum (Jan 10, 2014)

Have you tried just letting it burn out in the open? If it'll burn just sitting on the patio or on a flameproof surface, completely out in the open, then clearly you have an airflow issue in your smoker. If, however, the pellets go out when it's sitting out in the open, then you have a pellet issue. I've used a homemade tube smoker with pellets quite a few times in a couple different smokers, and I've never had it go out, nor have I ever microwaved my pellets.


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## cmayna (Jan 10, 2014)

+1  to what Mdboatbum said.    Try running the burner out in the open.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 10, 2014)

Adding Dust to the Pellets will choke out the Oxygen even more. The AMNPS is very temperamental in Gen2 MES. If Todd's suggestion didn't help, you should consider a AMNTS Tube Smoke Generator. The larger holes allow it even to burn in the low Oxygen environment of Gassers...JJ


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## dockman (Jan 10, 2014)

I too had a terrible time with my pellet box 5" x 8" until I watched a video on how to lite the pellets. After you lite pellet how a blow dryer on it for a minute or so it will flame up like a torch. After you blow on it let it burn for a very short time 1-2 minutes. Blow it out and it will be just fine. I do not put mine in smoker I use mailbox mod.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 10, 2014)

Dockman said:


> I too had a terrible time with my pellet box 5" x 8" until I watched a video on how to lite the pellets. After you lite pellet how a blow dryer on it for a minute or so it will flame up like a torch. After you blow on it let it burn for a very short time 1-2 minutes. Blow it out and it will be just fine. I do not put mine in smoker I use mailbox mod.


This is like Dockman said, except Magoo uses a heat gun:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/140859/how-i-light-my-amnps-w-video-link

I never did this---I just blow on the red coals myself, but this would work better than anything.

Bear


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## eman (Jan 10, 2014)

beuler said:


> Last Night was my second try with this thing....I have the MES 40 with window, Control panel in the Front. Live in ND ( elevation)
> 
> I was trying Jerky which came out like meat strips ( another story) . This is what i did with all the tips from Todd (Awesome Gentleman ) and all of you.
> 
> ...


Joe did you take the chip loader completely out of the unit or pull it out till it hit the stop? If you pulled it out till it stopped you actually sealed the intake.


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## BandCollector (Jan 10, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> This is like Dockman said, except Magoo uses a heat gun:
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/140859/how-i-light-my-amnps-w-video-link
> 
> ...


Looks to me that Magoo's technique is the cat's meow!  I'm going to follow his process.  Looks foolproof to me.

Thanks Magoo!


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## sqwib (Jan 10, 2014)

FWIW I have noticed that pellets too large (length) can stall a good burn.


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## trikefreak (Jan 10, 2014)

It's really weird, there's so many "secrets" that keep coming out when you share that the pellets keep going out. If it's not a Full Moon, I'm going to try again this weekend. I've not given up yet, but dang there's a lot of stories that go along with making this thing work..


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## daves1811 (Jan 10, 2014)

I don't have the pellet tray, I have the dust tray and had a heck of a time keeping mine out also.  I noticed with the dust tray that I had to really pack the dust into the tray and using a butane torch on the lighting end for at least 1 minute is a mandatory.

After that I would gently blow on the lot end until I had a cherry that I would compare to the end of a just lit cigar.  If I didn't get that then it was back to the butane torch.

Hope this helps some!


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## daveomak (Jan 11, 2014)

beuler, morning....    I had trouble keeping pellets lit.... I'm at about 1200 ft.....  I tried the "nuke" method to dry them...   didn't help me...   finally I fill the AMNPS with the  pellets I will be smoking with and place them in the MES at 275 for about 2 hours...  Then into the mailbox mod and they burn 1 row of pellets in about 3 1/2 hours......  No problems since the high temp drying process...


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## trikefreak (Jan 11, 2014)

That's a first for me: must put in smoker for 2 hours, and THEN do the mailbox mod. This is really absurd all the stories that keep popping up, and yet folks will rave about how great it is. Sorry if I'm sounding cynical, but I can't get one straight answer on how to make this pellet box work correctly. I'll go through 40 lbs of pellets by the time I try all the suggestions that keep getting thrown out there.......... Again, I've not thrown in the towel, yet, but at times I don't know what plan of attack to try. At times, I'm leaning towards chunks of wood that fit in the chip box, and just check on it every hour or so.


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## dirtworldmike (Jan 11, 2014)

I've done 10 or 12 smokes since getting my AMNPS.  . Pulling out the chip loader and chip are a must. But you also need to create a "draft" in the unit to keep the pellets burning. I just set a piece of 3" PVC pipe over the vent hole.(  that's all I had laying around the garage).  It woks great as it creates the draft needed. It's Simple and it WORKS. I haven't had any problems since adding the pipe.













P1110576.JPG



__ dirtworldmike
__ Jan 11, 2014






Notice the notch in the bottom of the pipe for my temp probe wire.

Pipe is 18" long













P1110577.JPG



__ dirtworldmike
__ Jan 11, 2014






I also stuck my drill in and drilled some hole in this thingee. Not pretty but I think it also helps getting air to the AMNPS.


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## billmc40 (Jan 11, 2014)

I had one, cant say enough good about the inventor. But in short it went back. I believe it is the MES 40. Air flow problem. It went back also now using a few of those pellets in my weber smokey mountain. There is a thread here somewhere going thru everything we did to make it work.

Bill


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## Bearcarver (Jan 11, 2014)

Trikefreak said:


> That's a first for me: must put in smoker for 2 hours, and THEN do the mailbox mod. This is really absurd all the stories that keep popping up, and yet folks will rave about how great it is. Sorry if I'm sounding cynical, but I can't get one straight answer on how to make this pellet box work correctly. I'll go through 40 lbs of pellets by the time I try all the suggestions that keep getting thrown out there.......... Again, I've not thrown in the towel, yet, but at times I don't know what plan of attack to try. At times, I'm leaning towards chunks of wood that fit in the chip box, and just check on it every hour or so.


You get different stories because they come from different people at different elevations.

Most of the things done could be eliminated by just getting it lit properly before putting it in.

Many times the little tricks used to get it going, people think meant something, but it was just that by the time they did all of those things they finally had it going right.

All I do is keep the pellets dry in empty jugs, fill the AMNPS to about 1'4" from the top, and light it. Then every time the flame goes out, I blow on the red coals until the flame appears again.

Then once I have a good red hot bed of coals, I allow the flame to go out, and put it in. I've been doing that with pellets and dust for 4 years, and couldn't do without my Amazing toys.

My whole start-up ritual takes me about 1 minute about 6 or 8 times, over about a 20 minute period. That's well worth it to have up to 12 hours of perfect smoke, without touching it again.

If that doesn't work for you, try this:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/140859/how-i-light-my-amnps-w-video-link

Bear


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## beuler (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks all for the responses!

Eman, i did pull the chip loader all the way out, but i like (DIRTS )  idea of also pulling the chip tray and drilling a few holes on the side for more air flow.

Dave...i am also going to pre dry them in the MES for a bit. 

I have a side vent, so the only thing is maybe a flex duct hooked on there to create a draft also. That will be last. 

I hope to smoke for Football today , so i will let you all know what happens!

Thanks again all...the comments really do help !


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## link (Jan 11, 2014)

Hello Beuler, I have had a bit of a tough time with some of my pellets (Cherry is a tough one) so I have made a slight mode to my AMZNPS. I use this to help get it going and on the tougher pellets it really helps. 













AMZNPS Mod.jpg



__ link
__ Jan 11, 2014


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## daveomak (Jan 11, 2014)

Trikefreak said:


> That's a first for me: must put in smoker for 2 hours, and THEN do the mailbox mod. This is really absurd all the stories that keep popping up, and yet folks will rave about how great it is. Sorry if I'm sounding cynical, but I can't get one straight answer on how to make this pellet box work correctly. I'll go through 40 lbs of pellets by the time I try all the suggestions that keep getting thrown out there.......... Again, I've not thrown in the towel, yet, but at times I don't know what plan of attack to try. At times, I'm leaning towards chunks of wood that fit in the chip box, and just check on it every hour or so.



To me it's not so absurd..  I like walking away and leaving my smoker operating for up to12 hours and not having to attend it...  cold smoking bacon is a great example ... 
I used to add chips every 45 minutes or so...   

I guess living in the high desert and humidity going from 20% at 3 in the afternoon to 95% at 3 in the morning causes some moisture problems with the pellets...  I have found a way to overcome the moisture issues...
I also didn't like the hot spot in the MES and through trial and error have made my smoker work perfect.. No hot spot, no temp swings from an element turning on and off.. I guess you could say I'm anal about having things perform up to expected levels... 
Kind of like most folks here...  they will do darn near anything to make the best smoked food they can... tweak temps, seasonings, w/ w/o moisture pans, chips, chunks, charcoal and a mix of all the above....
Believe it or not, there is a lot of very good information our members are willing to pass on...  
You have probably modified several of the trikes you have in your "fleet"...  same thing with smoking....  

Dave


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## geerock (Jan 11, 2014)

Well said, Dave.
Now, dirtworldmike is using a great technique.  And it has to do with getting more air / oxygen through the chamber.  NOTHING is gonna burn without enough air.  And drilling holes, opening loader, pulling chip tray at the bottom of the smoker isnt going to help much if the air doesnt flow through the exhaust.  Again, dirtworldmike uses a common fix for the gen 1 unit, but I beleive that beuler has a side exhaust gen 2.  That exhaust is half the size of the gen 1.  There is no flow.  Pull the exhaust completely and control your flow with the chip loader in or out as needed.  Blowing 6 times.  Baking the pellets for 2 hours. Torch, blow, torch, blow, torch, blow.  Microwave with the babies formula.  Getting a priest to exorcise the tray.  And having your wife do a pole dance in the nude and letting the pellets watch.......  nothing is gonna work if you try to burn without AIR!!  This gadget is supposed to be simple yet some of the prep that seems to be suggested to get it to work is longer than the smoke itself.  No wonder the guy is getting frustrated!
Get air in there beuler and it will burn.......or get a smoke daddy.

All the best.


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## cmayna (Jan 11, 2014)

Trikefreak said:


> That's a first for me: must put in smoker for 2 hours, and THEN do the mailbox mod. This is really absurd all the stories that keep popping up, and yet folks will rave about how great it is. Sorry if I'm sounding cynical, but I can't get one straight answer on how to make this pellet box work correctly. I'll go through 40 lbs of pellets by the time I try all the suggestions that keep getting thrown out there.......... Again, I've not thrown in the towel, yet, but at times I don't know what plan of attack to try. At times, I'm leaning towards chunks of wood that fit in the chip box, and just check on it every hour or so.


Trikefreak,

What smoker do you have?


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## beuler (Jan 11, 2014)

geerock said:


> Well said, Dave.
> Now, dirtworldmike is using a great technique. And it has to do with getting more air / oxygen through the chamber. NOTHING is gonna burn without enough air. And drilling holes, opening loader, pulling chip tray at the bottom of the smoker isnt going to help much if the air doesnt flow through the exhaust. Again, dirtworldmike uses a common fix for the gen 1 unit, but I beleive that beuler has a side exhaust gen 2. That exhaust is half the size of the gen 1. There is no flow. Pull the exhaust completely and control your flow with the chip loader in or out as needed. Blowing 6 times. Baking the pellets for 2 hours. Torch, blow, torch, blow, torch, blow. Microwave with the babies formula. Getting a priest to exorcise the tray. And having your wife do a pole dance in the nude and letting the pellets watch....... nothing is gonna work if you try to burn without AIR!! This gadget is supposed to be simple yet some of the prep that seems to be suggested to get it to work is longer than the smoke itself. No wonder the guy is getting frustrated!
> Get air in there beuler and it will burn.......or get a smoke daddy.
> 
> All the best.


Thanks Geerock! 

Heres my summary:

Remove exhaust to make hole bigger, remove chip tray and drill 3 holes on side mounting bracket, remove water pan , open or remove chip loader , slide open the drip pan an inch to get air through bottom drain hole, dry pellets first, then torch it like a big cigar. Either this will work or  i will be heating the neighborhood.. As soon as i do my next smoke i will post the results ! Thanks again all!

Joe


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## trikefreak (Jan 11, 2014)

I also have the newer MES40 with the side vent. I will be the first to help new owners know the truth - if you have a new MES40, be prepared to void your warranty if you want the pellet box to work. Stick with the chips until a new solution is brought forward.


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## geerock (Jan 11, 2014)

Beuler
All I said was to remove the exhaust.  You want to do the other things, fine.  But removing the exhaust is a bolt and can be replaced the same way.  So dont worry about voiding Masterbuilts lousy 90 day warranty.  By the time you get this figured out the time will be up anyway.   :biggrin:

And, not for nothing, but for the time why not just do the mailbox mod for about 10 to 12 buck and be done with it.  And no mods to the 40 at all.


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## foamheart (Jan 11, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> My whole start-up ritual takes me about 1 minute about 6 or 8 times, over about a 20 minute period. That's well worth it to have up to 12 hours of perfect smoke, without touching it again.
> 
> Bear


I believe this is the best statement on the entire thread.  One other thing to think about, as long as you have smoke by 100 degree IT you are doing good. That gives plenty of time if needed to get the auxiliary smoke generator working.


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## geerock (Jan 11, 2014)

Except that Bear has a gen 1.  The AMAZN works great in those.  The gen 2 is a whole different animal.


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## dirtworldmike (Jan 11, 2014)

Oops, sorry, I didn't realize you had  the  side vent model. Although I think a exhaust stack would still be the ticket. I would just use a 90 degree elbow and a 18 or 24 inch long pipe.  When mine is drafting, it really pulls the fresh air in nicely through the chip loader hole.

Best of luck with whatever you try.


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## sb59 (Jan 11, 2014)

Not sure if your mod. has it but if you do pull drip pan and grease tray and run a test smoke. I find air coming in below amaz. even from a 1/2" hole keeps it going. The warm smoke rising draws the fresh through the pellets. I prefer a drip pan above my element anyway for ease of cleaning.


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## smokeitifugotit (Jan 11, 2014)

*Here's my 2 cents on the subject, Beuler. I used to have a similar problem until I started setting my loaded AMNPS in the smoker during initial heat-up.  When the smoker reaches my desired temp, I pull the AMNPS, light it until a good burn rate is obtained and back into the smoker.  Haven't had one go out since.  Works for me.
GOOD LUCK,
Fred *


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## trikefreak (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm in the middle of a smoke today, and repeat results. I even tried microwaving the pellets for 3 minutes. They fire up quick, but the newer MES40 is not a fit for the amazen box. I've got the chip tray pulled out, pellets burned for about an hour. Rather than continue to drop the temp inside checking on it, I tossed chunks in the chip drawer and let it go.


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## dockman (Jan 12, 2014)

Mailbox mod!!


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## Bearcarver (Jan 12, 2014)

Trikefreak said:


> I'm in the middle of a smoke today, and repeat results. I even tried microwaving the pellets for 3 minutes. They fire up quick, but the newer MES40 is not a fit for the amazen box. I've got the chip tray pulled out, pellets burned for about an hour. Rather than continue to drop the temp inside checking on it, I tossed chunks in the chip drawer and let it go.


This is for Trikefreak, and anyone else who has a Gen #2 POS:

In case any of you haven't tried it yet, remove the water pan from the stupid slanted drip shield.

Place your AMNPS over the hole where the water pan had been hanging.

Place a foil pan under the hole to catch any drips.

Put something above your AMNPS to catch drips if you have food directly above the AMNPS.

Open your top side exhaust vent 100%.

Note: This is ALL AFTER you have your AMNPS lit properly.

Bear


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## trikefreak (Jan 12, 2014)

I think there's a lot more to it than just removing the water pan, but I'm making an assumption from what I've fought through thus far. Another key step, is pull the chip tube out to allow more air to flow. Now, Todd shared some pics of his Gen2 a year ago, and his chip tube has a longer opening to add chips. I'm cold smoking today, and removing the chip tube completely. The pellets are rolling along just fine with all available air circulating through. But, if you leave the chip tube in partially, try turning it like Todd suggested, with the cutout to the bottom to allow air to get in. I'm wondering if the moisture that builds up during cooking is also the culprit to pellets going out. I don't use anything in the water pan, but still see moisture rolling down the window.

I've said it before, I've not thrown in the towel, but frustrated up to this point. I'm steering clear of any cutting, drilling, or explosives to make this work :)


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## Bearcarver (Jan 12, 2014)

Trikefreak said:


> I think there's a lot more to it than just removing the water pan, but I'm making an assumption from what I've fought through thus far. Another key step, is pull the chip tube out to allow more air to flow. Now, Todd shared some pics of his Gen2 a year ago, and his chip tube has a longer opening to add chips. I'm cold smoking today, and removing the chip tube completely. The pellets are rolling along just fine with all available air circulating through. But, if you leave the chip tube in partially, try turning it like Todd suggested, with the cutout to the bottom to allow air to get in. I'm wondering if the moisture that builds up during cooking is also the culprit to pellets going out. I don't use anything in the water pan, but still see moisture rolling down the window.
> 
> I've said it before, I've not thrown in the towel, but frustrated up to this point. I'm steering clear of any cutting, drilling, or explosives to make this work :)


Didn't say there isn't more to it.

However, the slanted drip plate with the water pan in it blocks air flow from going up. removing the water pan, like I said & putting the AMNPS over the hole, allows some air to flow through the water pan hole to the AMNPS.

That slanted drip plate is also a big cause of the right side of the smoker being hotter than the left, because that plate is tilted "up" on the right, causing the heat to stack up on the right side, before rising above that plate.

Bear


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## mikelikessmoke (Jan 12, 2014)

First off, I have a MES 30 and LOVE IT! Top vent with a simple chimney set on the vent solved my minor problems maintaining smoke.

Getting proper airflow / draft is paramount to your success with or without the AMAZN tray along with having it properly burning before placing inside the unit.

At low temps or cold smoking getting a good draft is difficult at best.

Some people, such as Bearcarver, have been able to use their AMAZN tray with no problem at all and don't have anything modded on their MES while others, like yourself, have had nothing but problems.

I believe part of the success or problems stem from location of the smoker in relationship to the prevalent winds helping to "push" air into the intake and "pull" smoke out the exhaust vent. Conversely wind from the opposite direction will "push" into the exhaust vent (backdraft) stifling the airflow and extinguishing the pellets due to lack of oxygen.

A good chimney is the simplest way to improve draft and help prevent backdrafting.

Since you seem unwilling to use explosives to improve you draft........ How about attaching a chimney using a few or several small rare earth magnets? No drilling or permanent alterations required.

Another possibility would be a computer fan mounted in the same fashion on the outside, blowing out,  powered by a spare wall wart adapter.

Above all else, DON"T GIVE UP.

Once you are able to go an entire smoke with out having to peek, check, look, test, try, or do anything it will all be worth it!


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## beuler (Jan 13, 2014)

UPDATE UPDATE !

I did 2 Tri Tips and i pulled the chip loader, chip pan, opened the vent ( tried to take it off, its riveted from the inside)...opened the bottom drip tray a bit, dried the pellets, engulfed the pellets with fire...blew...fire..blew....smoked for 5 minutes..then ...Nothing 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






.

I re lit it, put it in the smoker with the flame still going, shut the door and watched the flame move about...so i must have a little air. Here's the next idea from one of you. I am going to mount a small fridge fan ( i call it ) to the exhaust side , sucking Out to cause a draft..this has to work! The air will flow and the pellets will burn. 

Just a reminder why i am doing this....when you add chips to the loader , they instantly flare up and cause allot of white, thick stinky smoke...1 chip, 20 chips, or even a chunk...it doesn't matter,,,its to hot over the element. I want light, slow , good smelling smoke.

Joe


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## Bearcarver (Jan 13, 2014)

beuler said:


> UPDATE UPDATE !
> 
> I did 2 Tri Tips and i pulled the chip loader, chip pan, opened the vent ( tried to take it off, its riveted from the inside)...opened the bottom drip tray a bit, dried the pellets, engulfed the pellets with fire...blew...fire..blew....smoked for 5 minutes..then ...Nothing
> 
> ...


That fan has to work!!

Question: Where have you been putting your AMNPS ??

Bear


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## daveomak (Jan 13, 2014)

How did you dry the pellets.....    Take pics of what you did inside the smoker and the exhaust....   where the AMNPS sits.....   
Since I started drying my pellets in the oven at 275 for a couple hours, this is what they look like at the end of a smoke....  White ash is a sign of a good supply of oxygen....  black pellets and you have a lack of oxygen and are making charcoal.....












AMNPS complete pellet burn.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jan 13, 2014


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## beuler (Jan 13, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> That fan has to work!!
> 
> Question: Where have you been putting your AMNPS ??
> 
> Bear


Todd told me to put it above, where the water pan was...oops , i forgot to mention i also pulled the water pan. Air should come through the chip loader.

Joe


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## beuler (Jan 13, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> How did you dry the pellets..... Take pics of what you did inside the smoker and the exhaust.... where the AMNPS sits.....
> Since I started drying my pellets in the oven at 275 for a couple hours, this is what they look like at the end of a smoke.... White ash is a sign of a good supply of oxygen.... black pellets and you have a lack of oxygen and are making charcoal.....
> 
> 
> ...


boy thats pretty...mine looks like the last inch of your row


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## Bearcarver (Jan 13, 2014)

beuler said:


> Todd told me to put it above, where the water pan was...oops , i forgot to mention i also pulled the water pan. Air should come through the chip loader.
> 
> Joe


OK---If you did all those things & put the AMNPS over the water pan hole, I sure hope that fan will fix you up. I really think it will fix it, because it seems you have a serious airflow problem.

The only thing left is the "Mailbox" Mod.

Good Luck!

Bear


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## beuler (Jan 13, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> OK---If you did all those things & put the AMNPS over the water pan hole, I sure hope that fan will fix you up. I really think it will fix it, because it seems you have a serious airflow problem.
> 
> The only thing left is the "Mailbox" Mod.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bear..im feeling confident!


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## trikefreak (Jan 13, 2014)

Look forward to your tests! I was able to cold smoke yesterday for about 6 hrs. One row of pellets went out, probably remit it 3 times before done for the day. I was looking at the exhaust vent thinking it was restricting, but sounds like you tried that too.


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## beuler (Jan 13, 2014)

Trikefreak said:


> Look forward to your tests! I was able to cold smoke yesterday for about 6 hrs. One row of pellets went out, probably remit it 3 times before done for the day. I was looking at the exhaust vent thinking it was restricting, but sounds like you tried that too.


We will figure this out yet Trike! We are in this together!


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## foamheart (Jan 13, 2014)

beuler said:


> We will figure this out yet Trike! We are in this together!


"I wanta buy a drink for the House!"

"and 27 straws"


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## cmayna (Jan 14, 2014)

Better be a real big drink for these thirsty people


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## daveomak (Jan 14, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> beuler said:
> 
> 
> > We will figure this out yet Trike! We are in this together! :beercheer:
> ...



+++++++++++

Reminds me of the "Watermelon Parties" way back when...


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## coffee_junkie (Jan 14, 2014)

I had problems getting my pellet smoker to work so I switched to a tube and it works like a charm. Just my 2 cents...although I do not own an MES so I cannot speak to how it will work in that unit.


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## beuler (Feb 6, 2014)

Here's an update!

I need to get photos soon.

I dried the pellets in the oven , then mixed a little sawdust with them just because.

I added a little fan and mounted it to the MES 40 on the side vent , blowing out of course.

I put the AMZNPS in the unit while it preheated...I think this is the real trick...it warms them up .

I pulled the chip loader out a bit, removed the chip tray, and set the water pan on the floor.

Lit it and ....it went out....
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





lit it again and it actually stayed lit 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





.

so...I think it was more of the dried, pre warmed pellets that helped more then the air flow..if that makes sense...

I will try every weekend and get pics and more updates..

Like I said " I WILL NOT GIVE UP"

and ....the smoke flavor was so much better then adding chips to the chip tray as they just flared to nothing.

Joe


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## cmayna (Feb 6, 2014)

Good idea to repeat and repeat what you're doing before you start smoking some meat.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 6, 2014)

I too have a second generation MES 40. I finally took the plunge and ordered my AMNPS this morning. After reading all of these issues with keeping it lit in the 2nd gen MES 40, I hope I made the right decision. I can't wait till it's delivered to give it a try.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2014)

beuler said:


> Here's an update!
> 
> I need to get photos soon.
> 
> ...


The only way you'll know that is to change one thing at a time. I would say air flow is more important than temp of the pellets, because I can light mine on my porch railing at Zero degrees, put it in my MES 40 Gen #1, and it never stops smoking until it runs out of pellets (10 to 12 hours).

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> I too have a second generation MES 40. I finally took the plunge and ordered my AMNPS this morning. After reading all of these issues with keeping it lit in the 2nd gen MES 40, I hope I made the right decision. I can't wait till it's delivered to give it a try.


Didn't you have a choice---couldn't find a Gen #1 ?

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 6, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> Didn't you have a choice---couldn't find a Gen #1 ?
> 
> Bear


I too have a second generation MES 40. I finally took the plunge and ordered my AMNPS this morning. After reading all of these issues with keeping it lit in the 2nd, I hope I made the right decision. I can't wait till it's delivered.



Bear,

The Gen 2 was a gift this past summer. I didn't know until recently that there are air flow issues with it. But I'm remaining optimistic. So far I've made some incredible food in it after dealing with some the other quirks that have plagued other gen 2 MES 40 owners. Hopefully I don't have any major issues with using the AMNPS in it.


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## cmayna (Feb 6, 2014)

I'm almost tempted to buy a MES 40 just for the challenge to make it work..............nah, I already have too many smokers as it is.


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## beuler (Feb 6, 2014)




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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> I too have a second generation MES 40. I finally took the plunge and ordered my AMNPS this morning. After reading all of these issues with keeping it lit in the 2nd, I hope I made the right decision. I can't wait till it's delivered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are a small handful of Gen #2 owners who are happy with their Gen #2. Pay attention to who they are & try to learn from them. I tested one, and found it to be a bad design & a POS, so I can't help much. Maybe they can.

As for the AMNPS in the Gen #2, it seems to work best if you remove the water pan from the hole in the drip shield, and place your AMNPS over the hole. This gets air to run up through the water pan hole past your AMNPS. Then put a throw-away foil pan on the floor under the hole to catch any drips. Also if you are going to have food dripping from above your AMNPS, put something above it to protect it from drippings.   

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2014)

cmayna said:


> I'm almost tempted to buy a MES 40 just for the challenge to make it work..............nah, I already have too many smokers as it is.


If you want a challenge, get a Gen #2.

A Gen #1 like mine isn't much of a challenge. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 6, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> There are a small handful of Gen #2 owners who are happy with their Gen #2. Pay attention to who they are & try to learn from them. I tested one, and found it to be a bad design & a POS, so I can't help much. Maybe they can.
> 
> As for the AMNPS in the Gen #2, it seems to work best if you remove the water pan from the hole in the drip shield, and place your AMNPS over the hole. This gets air to run up through the water pan hole past your AMNPS. Then put a throw-away foil pan on the floor under the hole to catch any drips. Also if you are going to have food dripping from above your AMNPS, put something above it to protect it from drippings.
> 
> Bear


Overall, I am pretty happy with the smoker. It took a little bit of time getting used to the temperature variances but as soon as I became accustomed to them and knew how I needed to adjust, I've made some tasty stuff!


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## trikefreak (Feb 6, 2014)

Last weekend was the first time pellets burnt for 10 hrs. I did some bacon at 100*. Pulled chip tube out, removed water pan, put pellet box under hole, and foil on shelf above hole for water tray. Didn't work so well next day at 225*, but tossed the new pellet tube in and it burnt better. I'll try tube again this weekend.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 8, 2014)

I received my AMNPS today. I've been playing around with it in my MES 40 2nd gen with little success so far. Hopefully I can figure something out and get it working.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 9, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> I received my AMNPS today. I've been playing around with it in my MES 40 2nd gen with little success so far. Hopefully I can figure something out and get it working.


Did you try this?

As for the AMNPS in the Gen #2, it seems to work best if you remove the water pan from the hole in the drip shield, and place your AMNPS over the hole. This gets air to run up through the water pan hole past your AMNPS. Then put a throw-away foil pan on the floor under the hole to catch any drips. Also if you are going to have food dripping from above your AMNPS, put something above it to protect it from drippings.   

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 9, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> Did you try this?
> 
> As for the AMNPS in the Gen #2, it seems to work best if you remove the water pan from the hole in the drip shield, and place your AMNPS over the hole. This gets air to run up through the water pan hole past your AMNPS. Then put a throw-away foil pan on the floor under the hole to catch any drips. Also if you are going to have food dripping from above your AMNPS, put something above it to protect it from drippings.
> 
> Bear


Hi Bear,

Yes I did try that. I had the chip loader pulled out a few inches and turned 180 degrees to allow for better airflow. I even tried it with and without the chip tray under the heater element. I then went to extreme and pulled the chip loader out completely and had a muffin fan blowing directly into the hole. This seemed to have it a little better success but ultimately the pellets went out after an hour or so.

I followed Todd's lighting instructions exactly and also tried ScooterMagoo's way to light it using a heat gun but I had the same results. The pellets went out after a short period of time.

I'm going to repeat my process again today but I'm to pay a little closer attention to drying the pellets first and see what happens.

Thanks again Bear.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 9, 2014)

I also forgot to mention that I installed a 90 degree elbow over the side vent to try to create a little more draft.


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## cmayna (Feb 9, 2014)

Since I don't have a MES 40, wish I could see some before and after mod pics.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 9, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> I also forgot to mention that I installed a 90 degree elbow over the side vent to try to create a little more draft.


Hmmmm, Sounds like you're hitting all the tricks.

If after all of that, you still can't keep it lit, I would suggest the "Mailbox" Mod. I only recommend that when all else fails.

I don't know if you mentioned what kind of pellets you're using. The only time I ever had any trouble at all was when I tried to use 100% Cherry. I use Hickory almost all the time, and never have a problem in my Gen #1.

Keep slugging away at it---It'll be worth it.

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 9, 2014)

Well, it went out again after a couple hours. I ran it with the chip loader out a few inches and turned 180 degrees, the chip tray pulled out about 1 1/2 inches, vent wide open with the 90 degree elbow installed, factory water pan removed and the AMNPS sitting above the hole on the drip shield like Todd recommends. From what I'm seeing, the AMNPS is still starved for air. Some of the pellets are burned completely but some are just charred. I'm not giving up by any means but I can definitely see why some people have!

Bear, I'm using oak pellets by the way


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## cmayna (Feb 9, 2014)

Would one of you with these issues ship your smoker to me?   I want a challenge


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## link (Feb 9, 2014)

This is the Mod I did to mine for the times when I want to get the pellets going well. I obviously only use if for cold smoking (wouldn't want my fan to melt). Really gets some nice coals going to help keep it lit.













AMZNPS Mod.jpg



__ link
__ Jan 11, 2014


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## Bearcarver (Feb 9, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> Well, it went out again after a couple hours. I ran it with the chip loader out a few inches and turned 180 degrees, the chip tray pulled out about 1 1/2 inches, vent wide open with the 90 degree elbow installed, factory water pan removed and the AMNPS sitting above the hole on the drip shield like Todd recommends. From what I'm seeing, the AMNPS is still starved for air. Some of the pellets are burned completely but some are just charred. I'm not giving up by any means but I can definitely see why some people have!
> 
> Bear, I'm using oak pellets by the way


Oak should be good---Do you have any Hickory to try?

How full are you making yours. I forgot to mention, I fill mine only 1/4" from the top of the walls. Foamy fills his 3/4 full, and has good success. I think that's about the same.

Too full could cut the air flow down & could jump rows if you do finally get it going good.

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 9, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> Oak should be good---Do you have any Hickory to try?
> 
> How full are you making yours. I forgot to mention, I fill mine only 1/4" from the top of the walls. Foamy fills his 3/4 full, and has good success. I think that's about the same.
> 
> ...


The only other pellets I have are the Pitmaster's Choice. I was hoping to save those for actual smokes and use the oak to figure out the bugs of the AMNPS in the MES but at this rate I may have to dip into the Pitmaster's before all the bugs are worked out.

I've been filling the AMNPS about a 1/4" from the top.


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## foamheart (Feb 9, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> The only other pellets I have are the Pitmaster's Choice. I was hoping to save those for actual smokes and use the oak to figure out the bugs of the AMNPS in the MES but at this rate I may have to dip into the Pitmaster's before all the bugs are worked out.
> 
> I've been filling the AMNPS about a 1/4" from the top.


Will it light and stay lit outside the box?


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 9, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> Will it light and stay lit outside the box?


I've never had it extinguish outside of the smoker. That being said, I've only had it lit outside of the smoker for 10-15 minutes at a time before I put it in the smoker.


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## foamheart (Feb 9, 2014)

Try it, that will eliminate a lot of possibilities. So you burn a line....

Then you'll know for sure its a airflow problem and not pellets, or how you lite it etc etc etc.... 

After that:

If it burns then try sitting it on the meat rack in between the hole for the reloader and the exhaust vent. If it burns there we know its a placement problem.

That eliminates even more possibilities.

You'll like it, if we can find a good placement point.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 9, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> Try it, that will eliminate a lot of possibilities. So you burn a line....
> 
> Then you'll know for sure its a airflow problem and not pellets, or how you lite it etc etc etc....
> 
> ...


Foamheart, thanks for the PM. I appreciate all the help.

I will definitely try to burn the AMNPS outside of the smoker and make sure that I am lighting it well enough and there are no problems with the pellets.

Which meat rack are you saying to place the AMNPS on? The bottom rack? Do you center the AMNPS on the rack?

Thanks again.


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## foamheart (Feb 10, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> Foamheart, thanks for the PM. I appreciate all the help.
> 
> I will definitely try to burn the AMNPS outside of the smoker and make sure that I am lighting it well enough and there are no problems with the pellets.
> 
> ...


Doesn't matter, as long as its in between the suction and the discharge or the chip loader and the exhaust vent. Oh and put the heat to high first for 20 mins to get the box up to temp. I am pretty sure you can not cold smoke in the MES40 without mods. You can warm smoke after you get the AMPS working consistently. High temp. (275) guarantees a good suction and discharge or draft thru the box.


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## trikefreak (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm still experimenting with mine as well, and I'll toss another idea out there: remove the chip tube completely.

I've not tried placing the pellet box ABOVE the water pan hole, I've been keeping it below it. I'll have to move things around next weekend on my next smoking adventure :grilling_smilie:


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## foamheart (Feb 10, 2014)

I am pretty sure if you pull it out just an 1 inch the suction will be fine. If you look at the end of the loader there will be either 2 or three holes drilled just for air.

I tried it without the loader and saw no difference what so ever in my MES 30, not knowing if you are a 30 or a 40 or which generation (like I would know), I was just trying to help narrow the problem down. If you can burn a line outside the box its and air flow problem. If you place the tray directly between the suction/discharge in a 275 degree box, and it goes out, you are not moving enough air. If like I think it will stay burning, its a positioning problem. My MES 30, doesn't like the far left bottom corner usually. BUT you must start it right, you must have the box temp to 275 with the vent fully open to get that draft going BEFORE you try putting the AMPs in.

I am going to try a 3" pipe extension on my discharge vent. Just setting it up there. I understand from a smart fella that the height extension equals a increase in diameter. I am no engineer but I believe him.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 10, 2014)

I was originally looking at the Masterbuilt cold smoker but it's not a true cold smoker because it makes the smoker box run around 100-120 degrees. I'd consider that a warm smoker. I decided against it and went with the AMNPS because I didn't want to have to make mods to it to turn it into a true cold smoker. Now I may have to make mods to the AMNPS to be able to do a true cold smoke. Given, I know it's my smoker and not the AMNPS but I may have reconsidered my purchase if I knew that going into it. I knew I'd have to tinker to get proper airflow but I didn't realize that I'd potentially have to sacrifice the cold smoking function of it.

All that being said, I'm still not giving up! Sorry for my rant!


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## Bearcarver (Feb 10, 2014)

Note to all: The reason I tell people with the Gen#2 to put the AMNPS over the hole vacated by removing the water pan, instead of on a rack more to the right, is because in the Gen #2, that big stupid slanted drip plate is blocking most of the air flow from beneath it, except the air that manages to be forced to the left & up through the water pan hole.

That big slanted drip plate is also a big factor in why the Gen #2 is hotter on the right than on the left. The drip plate is higher on the right than on the left, forcing rising heat uphill to the right, under the plate.

Bear


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## cmayna (Feb 10, 2014)

Looking at pics that Todd included in his Gen 1 vs Gen 2 post some time ago, http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/133955/2012-mes-40-vs-old-model-mes-40

what if you replaced the slanted drip pan and incorporated a flat one similar to what we see in the Gen 1?


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## Bearcarver (Feb 10, 2014)

cmayna said:


> Looking at pics that Todd included in his Gen 1 vs Gen 2 post some time ago, http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/133955/2012-mes-40-vs-old-model-mes-40
> 
> what if you replaced the slanted drip pan and incorporated a flat one similar to what we see in the Gen 1?


The Gen #1 has a big water pan that covers most of the cooking area, yet leaves enough room for heat & air to get by it. If you could set it up to use a large water pan like in the Gen #1---Yes. This is one of the suggestions I made to Masterbuilt, to do with their next Generation. If I had a Gen #2 that I wanted to use, I would consider cutting that slanted plate down in depth to allow the heat & air to get by freely, instead of stacking up under the plate.

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 10, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> The Gen #1 has a big water pan that covers most of the cooking area, yet leaves enough room for heat & air to get by it. If you could set it up to use a large water pan like in the Gen #1---Yes. This is one of the suggestions I made to Masterbuilt, to do with their next Generation. If I had a Gen #2 that I wanted to use, I would consider cutting that slanted plate down in depth to allow the heat & air to get by freely, instead of stacking up under the plate.
> 
> 
> Bear



I've considered modifying the slanted drip tray and possibly even cutting a vent in the top like the 1st gen MES 40. Has anyone done these mods to their 2nd gen MES 40?


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## foamheart (Feb 10, 2014)

I don't know the MES's near as well as Bearcarver, I got the little cheap one and he got the 40.  I never thought I would just let the charcoal pit sit there and rust thereby needing that extra space. But anyway, he has made a point of knowing all the units, I only attempt to trouble shoot from what I know, mine.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 10, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> I've considered modifying the slanted drip tray and possibly even cutting a vent in the top like the 1st gen MES 40. Has anyone done these mods to their 2nd gen MES 40?


Would probably be great if you took about an inch (or at least a half inch) off of both the front & the back of the slanted drip plate.

As for cutting a vent in top, like the Gen #1 has, if you do, cut it in the back left, instead of the back right, because one of the only problems with the Gen #1 is because the top vent is on the right, and the heating element is on the right, the heat wants to go straight up the right side & out the vent. If you ever saw pictures of my MES 40, you saw an aluminum plate on the right side, above the element, tilted up on the left, to guide the heat over to the middle of the smoker, before it goes up.

I hope that makes sense, because it works good. If they would have put the Gen #1 vent on the top left, instead of the top right, the heat would have to cross over through the smoker to get to the exhaust vent, making the heat more even across the interior of the smoker.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 10, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> I don't know the MES's near as well as Bearcarver, I got the little cheap one and he got the 40.  I never thought I would just let the charcoal pit sit there and rust thereby needing that extra space. But anyway, he has made a point of knowing all the units, I only attempt to trouble shoot from what I know, mine.


Going by your comments, I would say you know your MES better than most. Most of your suggestions work for the MES 40 too.

Thanks for your help!!

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

Well I gave the AMNPS another shot last night. This time I was extremely meticulous when lighting it. I lit it with my propane torch then used a heat gun on it until it sounded like a jet engine. If you've never done it using a heat gun, search for ScooterMagoo's AMNPS lighting video and you'll know what I mean. Anyways, after using the heat gun I let the flame burn for ten minutes. It went out and I then repeated the process. I played around with it for almost 25 minutes and it was burning great. I then took Foamheart's advice and let it burn outside of the smoker to ensure that there wasn't any pellet issues and to make sure I lit it properly. I burned over half a row with perfection. No charcoal looking pellets. All completely burned. I was amazed. So that's what it's supposed to look like! Since I was extremely happy with the results I decided to give it another shot in the MES. I turned on the smoker and heated it up to 225 degrees. I wanted to repeat my last attempt so I put the AMNPS in the smoker above the hole where the water pan used to be, had the chip tray pulled out about 1 1/2", vent completely open with 90 degree elbow installed, chip loader pulled out a few inches and turned 180 degrees. Within a minute or two of putting it in the smoker, I could tell that the cherry in the AMNPS was dying. It burned maybe 3/4" of pellets and died out. I was bummed. I thought I had it this time. Back to the drawing board.


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## aeroforce100 (Feb 11, 2014)

Sounds like it is time for you to do the mailbox Mod!


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

aeroforce100 said:


> Sounds like it is time for you to do the mailbox Mod!



Yeah I think I'm running out of options so it might be time to stop wasting my time and pellets and just build the mailbox mod and get back to happy smoking!


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## slots (Feb 11, 2014)

I had the same issue with some Maple pellets..  I pulled the chip loader and the chip tray out and placed a small fan in front of the chip loader openeing about 6" away and turned it on low and it worked perfectly.  Good luck.

Happy Smokin

Dave


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## cmayna (Feb 11, 2014)

Steelcity,

Sorry to hear of your ongoing issues.  Wish I was nearby to help you resolve this problem.  Before you do the Mailbox mod, how about a small fan as what Slots suggests?  Another air provider is a aquarium pump.  It just doesn't sound like you are enough air inside.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

I have a high speed muffin fan that I tried out the other day. I had the chip loader pulled out and had the fan sitting directly against the opening. Still had little success. But I may try it out again with my better lighting skills. Do you think having the fan sit back 6" would be better?


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## foamheart (Feb 11, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> vent completely open with 90 degree elbow installed,


90 degree elbow? If you have added a  90 degree elbow, that's your problem. Adding a turn in the line increases resistance thereby reducing the ability of the box to pull a draft. You may have to extend it upward first to get the 90 to work. That Dave is a smart man. Ask him what length would be required. I bet maybe 3 ft. Its not like plumbing water, you do not have a constant pressure, you are gently coaxing one thru the box.

Take your 90 off and heat the box to 275 first, you have to create a pull thru the box. Then you can reduce it to wherever you like. When you light charcoal, you must first burn them high before using them, think of it that way, 275 first to get the air expanding and moving out the top, pulling cold air from the bottom. Once the box has started this then turn it down to your cooking temp.

Try it and see if it works.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> 90 degree elbow? If you have added a  90 degree elbow, that's your problem. Adding a turn in the line increases resistance thereby reducing the ability of the box to pull a draft. You may have to extend it upward first to get the 90 to work. That Dave is a smart man. Ask him what length would be required. I bet maybe 3 ft. Its not like plumbing water, you do not have a constant pressure, you are gently coaxing one thru the box.
> 
> Take your 90 off and heat the box to 275 first, you have to create a pull thru the box. Then you can reduce it to wherever you like. When you light charcoal, you must first burn them high before using them, think of it that way, 275 first to get the air expanding and moving out the top, pulling cold air from the bottom. Once the box has started this then turn it down to your cooking temp.
> 
> Try it and see if it works.




The vent on my smoker is on the side. The 90 degree elbow is a common mod on the 2012 MES 40 to increase the draft inside the smoker.


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## cmayna (Feb 11, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> Take your 90 off and heat the box to 275 first, you have to create a pull thru the box. Then you can reduce it to wherever you like. When you light charcoal, you must first burn them high before using them, think of it that way, 275 first to get the air expanding and moving out the top, pulling cold air from the bottom. Once the box has started this then turn it down to your cooking temp.
> 
> Try it and see if it works.


That sounds like some good advice.   SteelCity, Does your 90 have an extension on it?  If so, how long is it?


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## cuebiz (Feb 11, 2014)

I have a MES 40 new gen.   After reading many things on this forum, I decided to do the mailbox modification. I started out with the flexible tubing (for dryer) and set the mailbox on a brick on the ground.  I didn't like the idea of bending over to check on the AMNPS, so I put a shelf bracket on the side of smoker and mounted the mailbox to that. The alluminum mailbox was $15 at Menards.

I took a piece of straight vent tubing (also alluminum) and cut it down to the size that I needed to connect it to the hole in the smoker where the chip loader goes in.  The 3" vent tubing fit perfectly

in that hole.  I took the chip box completely out. I have never used the water pan, so that is not in there either. I have put a 90* elbow on the vent on the side of the smoker, with no extention. That also fit nice and snug on the existing vent apparatus. I had to wrap the 90 with foil for a few smokes because it was leaking, but after a while it sealed itself up. On the back end of the mailbox (towards the top)  I traced and cut with snips a hole to fit the vent tubing in. I used the flap method to attach them together.  I've done a few smokes with it so far, and all I can say is that this system is the BEST.

The pellets burn the way they are supposed to, and I can see the kind of smoke that I want to see coming out of the vent. It's also very easy to check on the AMNPS without opening the smoker door.

The mailbox has small holes for mounting, that lets air in from the bottom, and I also drilled one 1/2" hole in the door. This is a great forum to learn from!!!!                Dave.

ps. I also hooked an Auberins 1503 1800 watt capacity PID. I did that a while back, and I'm glad I did. That mod is quite expensive.  $200 +


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

cmayna said:


> That sounds like some good advice.   SteelCity, Does your 90 have an extension on it?  If so, how long is it?




The 90 degree elbow is 3". I had a 3" to 4" reducer laying around so I have that as an extender on top of the elbow. That makes it about a 6" extension on the elbow.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

CueBiz said:


> I have a MES 40 new gen.   After reading many things on this forum, I decided to do the mailbox modification. I started out with the flexible tubing (for dryer) and set the mailbox on a brick on the ground.  I didn't like the idea of bending over to check on the AMNPS, so I put a shelf bracket on the side of smoker and mounted the mailbox to that. The alluminum mailbox was $15 at Menards.
> I took a piece of straight vent tubing (also alluminum) and cut it down to the size that I needed to connect it to the hole in the smoker where the chip loader goes in.  The 3" vent tubing fit perfectly
> in that hole.  I took the chip box completely out. I have never used the water pan, so that is not in there either. I have put a 90* elbow on the vent on the side of the smoker, with no extention. That also fit nice and snug on the existing vent apparatus. I had to wrap the 90 with foil for a few smokes because it was leaking, but after a while it sealed itself up. On the back end of the mailbox (towards the top)  I traced and cut with snips a hole to fit the vent tubing in. I used the flap method to attach them together.  I've done a few smokes with it so far, and all I can say is that this system is the BEST.
> The pellets burn the way they are supposed to, and I can see the kind of smoke that I want to see coming out of the vent. It's also very easy to check on the AMNPS without opening the smoker door.
> ...




Cue, do you have any pictures of your mailbox and shelf brackets? If I do the mailbox mod the shelf brackets sound like a great idea. Also, was the chip box easy to remove? Has it had an effect, good or bad, on the temps inside the smoker box? Would it be easy to put back on if you wanted to for some reason?


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## cuebiz (Feb 11, 2014)

Absolutely no cutting or anything to the smoker , other than 3 small sheet metal screws to hold bracket. Can be put back to original factory condition in minutes. The chip box just slides out.  I have made a wooden cart for my smoker with a 3 sided  wind breaker. (We have some pretty tough winters here in WI.) 













20140211_142641.jpg



__ cuebiz
__ Feb 11, 2014


















20140211_142701.jpg



__ cuebiz
__ Feb 11, 2014


















20140211_142649.jpg



__ cuebiz
__ Feb 11, 2014






The mailbox has a flange area where the back is attached to the main housing, so I don't think you would even need the shelf bracket. You could screw the flange area directly to the side of the smoker with small sheet metal screws. It doesn't take much, as the mailbox weight is minimal. The last pic shows the 1/2" hole in the door.













20140211_142940.jpg



__ cuebiz
__ Feb 11, 2014






This pic shows the connection that I had to make to get from the mailbox to the loading hole. You can also see in the corner where I have covered my window with a sheet of SS. I didn't like cleaning it.













20131216_145411.jpg



__ cuebiz
__ Dec 16, 2013






This pic shows the elbow and the windbreaker I built. Plenty of room between the walls of the windbreaker and the smoker. Also there is no back on it, so there is no worry of too much heat.  Works great! The door is hinged with pins to come completely off in the summer if I want.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

Cue, thanks for the pictures. Your setup is impressive! Great job!

Do you still have the slanted drip shield in place inside the smoker?


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## cuebiz (Feb 11, 2014)

Yes. Everything is just as it was except the removable parts. I put them on a shelf incase I want to put it back the way it was, but I'm sure I won't. The slanted drip pan is still in the smoker and covered with foil.  I'm not sure if it is needed, maybe not. Experimentation will tell.  I just did this mod about a week or so ago. It's too damn cold to experiment much!













20140211_142811.jpg



__ cuebiz
__ Feb 11, 2014






  Bearcarver, I think, made a statement where it blocks the heat and smoke too much, being as large as it is. Later this week the weather is supposed to let up some. Time to experiment!


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## cuebiz (Feb 11, 2014)

This is the statement he made earlier:

The Gen #1 has a big water pan that covers most of the cooking area, yet leaves enough room for heat & air to get by it. If you could set it up to use a large water pan like in the Gen #1---Yes. This is one of the suggestions I made to Masterbuilt, to do with their next Generation. If I had a Gen #2 that I wanted to use, I would consider cutting that slanted plate down in depth to allow the heat & air to get by freely, instead of stacking up under the plate.

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 11, 2014)

Cue, keep us posted. If I have time this weekend I'm going to experiment with some things. Don't be surprised if I pick your brain at some point about your PID controller too but that's a bit down the road.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 12, 2014)

Cue, what type and size pipe did you use between the mailbox and the smoker inlet?


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 12, 2014)

Nevermind. I just read your first post and saw that you used 3" aluminum.


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## cmayna (Feb 12, 2014)

To the original poster, Beuler,   how are you doing with your project?   Get it resolved?


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## beuler (Feb 12, 2014)

Hey Cmayna

I am going to try it again this weekend and get pics. To Recap...I slide out the chip loader, moved the water pan to the floor, removed the chip tray, and put a fan on the exhaust side , blowing out as to suck the air in from the bottom chip loader , up and through the exhaust hole on the side. I think it helped to dry the pellets in the oven and then I added a little apple chips ( almost dust ) to the pellet bag. This gives the AMZNPS something else to grab on to and burn. Also preheating helped I believe to have warm pellets. It only went out one time and then continued on.

Heres another thing I think may hinder the burning!

Have you all noticed the big weld on the bottom of the AMZNPS to hold the crossbars??

I think after it gets past that weld ( the first inch ) it burns better....kinda like the weld is blocking some air..
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Thanks all for keeping up my post , this is awesome

Joe


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## Bearcarver (Feb 12, 2014)

beuler said:


> Hey Cmayna
> 
> I am going to try it again this weekend and get pics. To Recap...I slide out the chip loader, moved the water pan to the floor, removed the chip tray, and put a fan on the exhaust side , blowing out as to suck the air in from the bottom chip loader , up and through the exhaust hole on the side. I think it helped to dry the pellets in the oven and then I added a little apple chips ( almost dust ) to the pellet bag. This gives the AMZNPS something else to grab on to and burn. Also preheating helped I believe to have warm pellets. It only went out one time and then continued on.
> 
> ...


One more Tip for you: The reason we say to put a disposable foil pan under the water pan hole, is because after a few smokes, you can just throw it away, instead of having to wash your water pan.

Also FYI: Those of us who don't have air flow problems or altitude problems don't have trouble with the weld blocking air. Try starting your AMNPS a little beyond the weld, and I think you may find that it just takes a couple inches to get going good, weld or no weld.

Bear


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## cmayna (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow, I never thought about the weld area of the AMNPS as being an issue.  Dang, even at my age, I'm still learning something


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok guys, here's my latest AMNPS experiment...

I took the entire chip loader, chip tray and chip box out like Cuebiz did. The water pan has also been removed but the slanted drip shield is still installed.

While I was lighting my AMNPS, I heated the smoker to 275 degrees like Foamheart suggested. After the smoker was up to temp and the AMNPS had a good bed of coals I put the AMNPS in the smoker on top of the hole in the drip shield where the water pan used to be. I then set the smoker to 230 degrees and walked away.

I checked it here and there over the first couple of hours. It was burning perfectly for the first 2 1/2 hours and then I noticed that the pellets were't burning completely. It looked the same as my previous attempts. Frustrated but not ready to give up, I pulled out the muffin fan again. I plugged it in and put it right up against the inlet and walked away to have a beer to ease my frustrations. I checked it out about a half hour later and it was burning great! I let it burn like that for a little while with no issues.

So it seems as though the fan pushing fresh air in the smoker and the fact that the air has a direct path to the AMNPS because of the chip box is removed may be the perfect combination.

I'm getting kinda tired so I turned the smoker off and separated the burning pellets from the fresh pellets and I'm heading to bed. I'm going to do some more experimenting on friday since I'm off work. I'm going to see if I can get a full tray of pellets to burn without interruption. The one thing I'd like to play around with is the distance between the fan and the smoker's inlet. I don't think having it right up against the smoker is the best option. It almost seemed to be moving the air in the smoker a bit too much.

I appreciate all of your help through all of this! This site is great and it's members are the best! Thanks again! I'll keep you guys posted when I play around some more.


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## daveomak (Feb 12, 2014)

maybe the drip tray is blocking the air flow.....    ALSO....  if the smoke looks to be recirculating inside the smoker, recirculating air has had the oxygen reduced from the burning process....  once through air will solve that...


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 13, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> maybe the drip tray is blocking the air flow.....    ALSO....  if the smoke looks to be recirculating inside the smoker, recirculating air has had the oxygen reduced from the burning process....  once through air will solve that...




Dave, after reading your post it got me thinking. Last night when I had the fan right up against the air inlet, the smoke was moving quickly inside the smoker and being pushed pretty hard out of the top vent. When I backed the fan off 6" the smoke was not being pushed nearly as hard out of the vent and was recirculating inside the smoker a little bit more than when the fan was right up against the air inlet. So I guess I need to ask, which scenario is better? Is it better to have the smoke moving quickly through the smoker or is it better to have slight recirculation? At no point in either case was the smoke thick. It was nice TBS but just moving at different speeds within the smoker.

Oh and I forgot to mention last night, when the AMNPS was burning well inside the MES and before I had the fan blowing into it, I noticed that occasionally I'd see a little bit of smoke coming out of the smoker's inlet. Not sure if this means anything but I'm assuming that it means there was poor air circulation inside the smoker.


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## beuler (Feb 13, 2014)

Holy cow Steelcity! I think you got it. I have my little fridge fan mounted to the side exhaust thinking it would suck air in the loader side...well , common sense shoulda told me , this little fan is not strong enough to do that...so... im going to mount it to the loader side and see.

My question is...does a fan blowing over the heating element have a negative action to the heat..or , just heat as normal and it will take care of its self?

I have to get pics this weekend and show you my fan set up ...its easy and cool!

Thanks

Joe


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## cmayna (Feb 13, 2014)

Wow,

It looks like we're getting somewhere, real quickly.  Sounds like the two of you will be producing some fine smoked product this weekend.

I've already PM'd you two guys my ship to address for food sample tasting


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 13, 2014)

beuler said:


> Holy cow Steelcity! I think you got it. I have my little fridge fan mounted to the side exhaust thinking it would suck air in the loader side...well , common sense shoulda told me , this little fan is not strong enough to do that...so... im going to mount it to the loader side and see.
> My question is...does a fan blowing over the heating element have a negative action to the heat..or , just heat as normal and it will take care of its self?
> I have to get pics this weekend and show you my fan set up ...its easy and cool!
> Thanks
> Joe




Joe, the heating element worked perfectly with the fan blowing right over top of it. I was concerned about that too especially since it was around 20-25 degrees outside when I was experimenting. Give it a try. I hope it works for you. I'm going to experiment so more tomorrow. If all goes well, I'm making pulled pork on Saturday.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 13, 2014)

cmayna said:


> Wow,
> 
> It looks like we're getting somewhere, real quickly.  Sounds like the two of you will be producing some fine smoked product this weekend.


What he said!!!  You're just about there!!!  I hate to see that Dang Gen #2 causing so much of a PITA !!!

Steelcity----As for which is better, I would say the best would be just enough air movement produced to keep it burning---No more, No less.

And Beuler, as for air blowing over the element, I would say the same thing, if you can adjust it, keep it just enough to keep your AMNPS going.

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 13, 2014)

cmayna said:


> Wow,
> It looks like we're getting somewhere, real quickly.  Sounds like the two of you will be producing some fine smoked product this weekend.
> 
> I've already PM'd you two guys my ship to address for food sample tasting :banana_smiley:




cmayna,

I'll send some right over!


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## cmayna (Feb 13, 2014)

Oh goodie, Now I've got something to eat while I'm rebuilding my Holley double pumper!        Oh wait a minute,,,,,,, I'm also doing some smoking ( butt and Salmon) this weekend.  Maybe we need to do some trading.


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 13, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> I hate to see that Dang Gen #2 causing so much of a PITA !!!




Yeah it's definitely been a pain, that's for sure! I just hope that I'm over the hump now. Like I said, tomorrow I'm going to repeat last night's experiement. If it works, I'll be estatic.

Since I've only used the oak pellets, are the pitmaster's choice pellets any harder to light?


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## Bearcarver (Feb 13, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> Yeah it's definitely been a pain, that's for sure! I just hope that I'm over the hump now. Like I said, tomorrow I'm going to repeat last night's experiement. If it works, I'll be estatic.
> 
> Since I've only used the oak pellets, are the pitmaster's choice pellets any harder to light?


I don't think so, but I can't tell you for sure.

Hickory pellets are real easy, and that's just about all I ever use. Hickory is Awesome!!

Cherry is the worst I ever used.

Bear


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## beuler (Feb 13, 2014)

Since I started this post over 120 replies ago, I would like to thank all of you for responding. I see no one  likes to do the Thumbs up to every post, but , I read them all and i am thankful  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 Just a reminder how this started , and most of you will understand me, is the MES tray is so hot, that when I add chips, they burn right up and make a heavy white stinky bitter ugly smoke....if we could add chips and it made a sloowwww , smelling gooood, thin smoke...I don't think most of us would be having this conversation.

Thanks!

Joe


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 13, 2014)

beuler said:


> Since I started this post over 120 replies ago, I would like to thank all of you for responding. I see no one  likes to do the Thumbs up to every post, but , I read them all and i am thankful  :77:
> Just a reminder how this started , and most of you will understand me, is the MES tray is so hot, that when I add chips, they burn right up and make a heavy white stinky bitter ugly smoke....if we could add chips and it made a sloowwww , smelling gooood, thin smoke...I don't think most of us would be having this conversation.
> Thanks!
> Joe




Beuler, I'm sorry I kinda hyjacked your thread here but I figured we were having the same issues so I thought I'd jump right in!

I too would like to thank everyone that's helped us out. I can't believe what I've learned from all you guys in the short time that I've had a smoker. Don't be surprised if I ask many more questions soon!


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## foamheart (Feb 13, 2014)

beuler said:


> MES tray is so hot, that when I add chips, they burn right up and make a heavy white stinky bitter ugly smoke....if we could add chips and it made a sloowwww , smelling gooood, thin smoke...I don't think most of us would be having this conversation.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Joe


The easy answer is to regulate the vent. less air means less combustion. I have been known to stick a red rag in a vent stack on a pipe pit to slow the heat down when say a wind blows up. Heat oxygen and fuel, its your choice how to slow it down easiest.


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## beuler (Feb 13, 2014)

Don't be sorry steelcity..more the merrier!


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## Bearcarver (Feb 13, 2014)

Foamheart said:


> The easy answer is to regulate the vent. less air means less combustion. I have been known to stick a red rag in a vent stack on a pipe pit to slow the heat down when say a wind blows up. Heat oxygen and fuel, its your choice how to slow it down easiest.


Hmmmm, Is that what they meant when they said, "Stuff a rag in it, Foamy!"
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Bear


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## cmayna (Feb 13, 2014)

LOL


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## foamheart (Feb 13, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> Hmmmm, Is that what they meant when they said, "Stuff a rag in it, Foamy!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeppers we would have had a good time had we met in our youth! <Chuckles>


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 14, 2014)

Ok just to update you guys...

So I duplicated everything that I did the other day. This morning around 8am I turned the smoker on and got it warming up. I then went through the routine of lighting the AMNPS. At 8:40am I put the AMNPS in the smoker, set the smoker to 225 degrees, turned the muffin fan on and walked away. I set the muffin fan about 4 inches from the inlet opening. Well, I am happy to report that the AMNPS burned till about 7:00pm without going out! I have to admit, I'm really excited about this!

One issue though, the AMNPS still had about 1 1/2 inches of pellets left to burn before it went out? Is this normal?

Thanks again guys!


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## cmayna (Feb 14, 2014)

SteelCity,

That is awesome news.  Now let's see some smoked finished product.

Craig


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 14, 2014)

cmayna said:


> SteelCity,
> 
> That is awesome news.  Now let's see some smoked finished product.
> 
> Craig


Craig,

What are your thoughts on the AMNPS burning for that long and then suddenly going out? It just seems weird to me that it only had a little over an inch of pellets left and went out.


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## cmayna (Feb 15, 2014)

I have never burned a AMNPS that long so no experience, sorry.   Maybe it just wanted to mess with you?


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## Bearcarver (Feb 15, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> Craig,
> 
> What are your thoughts on the AMNPS burning for that long and then suddenly going out? It just seems weird to me that it only had a little over an inch of pellets left and went out.


When it burns proper, you will have to put it out (separate burning from not burning) if you don't want it to go all the way to the end. 

Maybe something dripped on it??

Bear


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## beuler (Feb 16, 2014)

Here's some pictures.....

The first two were on the exhaust side...then I moved it to the chip loader to blow air in.

Its a 12 volt fan I hook to a 2/10/25 amp car charger

Havent tried it yet..soon













IMG_0658.JPG



__ beuler
__ Feb 16, 2014


















IMG_0659.JPG



__ beuler
__ Feb 16, 2014


















IMG_0660.JPG



__ beuler
__ Feb 16, 2014


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## Bearcarver (Feb 16, 2014)

That should help a lot !!!

I would watch that the air blowing in the dumper hole doesn't blow the real fine ashes from the AMNPS to the food.

Just a thought.

Bear


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 17, 2014)

Hey everyone. So I thought I'd give a quick update from this weekend. And I know, no QView, never happened but I assure you that it did haha!

I got my MES going Friday night at almost midnight. Once again, 2nd gen MES, vent wide open with the 90 degree elbow hooked up to it, smoker box and chip tray completely removed, water pan removed and a muffin fan blowing into the air inlet.  I got the smoker up to temp and the AMNPS burning well. I used the Pitmaster's Choice pellets which by the way seemed to produce a nice cigar-like cherry faster than the oak pellets that I was playing around with before. Anyways, I had rubbed a pork butt right before I fired up the smoker. I put the butt and the AMNPS in the smoker around 12:30am. AMNPS was placed on the slanted drip catcher above where the water pan usually sits. I set my muffin fan in an old vice I had laying around and had it sat it and the fan about four inches from the inlet hole. I then went to bed.

I woke up around 7:30am, looked outside and I saw that the AMNPS was still burning! Long story short, I waited till the AMNPS was done smoking, wrapped the butt in foil and finished it off in the oven. In total, the AMNPS burned for about 9 hours. The butt turned out awesome. Beautiful bark, juicy and a LIGHT smoke flavor.

All in all, I consider this a huge win. But I have a few questions/concerns. First, the smoke flavor of the butt was awesome but not as heavy as I'd like. I've done butts quite a few times with either hickory or pecan chips, and once mesquite, and the smoke flavor was much more noticeable. So my main question is, is this normal when using the AMNPS? Will I get lighter smoke flavors when using the AMNPS? Was it the choice of pellets that caused the light flavor? Or, and I'm REALLY wondering this, did I have the fan moving the air too fast through the smoker? Would this cause a lighter smoke flavor? If I choose to keep using the fan method I think I'm going to get a smaller CFM fan or at least a variable speed fan.

I guess I'll ask this but I feel stupid asking, when I'm looking through the glass in my smoker what should it look like? Should there be a smoke haze throughout the smoker or should the smoke be obviously moving fast through the smoker?

Thanks guys!


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## Bearcarver (Feb 17, 2014)

steelcitysmoke said:


> Hey everyone. So I thought I'd give a quick update from this weekend. And I know, no QView, never happened but I assure you that it did haha!
> 
> I got my MES going Friday night at almost midnight. Once again, 2nd gen MES, vent wide open with the 90 degree elbow hooked up to it, smoker box and chip tray completely removed, water pan removed and a muffin fan blowing into the air inlet. I got the smoker up to temp and the AMNPS burning well. I used the Pitmaster's Choice pellets which by the way seemed to produce a nice cigar-like cherry faster than the oak pellets that I was playing around with before. Anyways, I had rubbed a pork butt right before I fired up the smoker. I put the butt and the AMNPS in the smoker around 12:30am. AMNPS was placed on the slanted drip catcher above where the water pan usually sits. I set my muffin fan in an old vice I had laying around and had it sat it and the fan about four inches from the inlet hole. I then went to bed.
> 
> ...


Some people like very mild smoke flavor. I like as much smoke flavor as I can get. I use Hickory almost all the time---Light to medium I call it, but I use smoke all the time, except when the meat is foiled. You don't want heavy smoke. When I look in my glass door, I want to see from smoke that I can barely see to a smoker full of light smoke. I don't want to have smoke so thick that I can barely see the meat. I usually have it so light that I have to look at the top vent to see the smoke.

I hope you understand this, because it's kinda hard to explain how much smoke I like to see.

Bear


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## cmayna (Feb 17, 2014)

Steelcity,

You bring up a good point that I saw another person ask in a diferent post.  Does the pellet smoke generate less smoke flavor vs chunks or chips?  If yes, then it sounds like the amount of smoke which chips or chunks might bombard the meat with vs the TBS of a pellet smoker?

Funny thing is that yesterday my wife commented that she was expecting more smokey flavor from the Boston Butt I smoked on Saturday, using hickory pellets.   Hmmmmm.


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## trikefreak (Feb 17, 2014)

Glad to hear you're making headway, though it sucks to have to add a battery charger and fan to the equation. I smoked bacon on Saturday and had my best pellet experience. Chip tube, tray, and water pan removed, 125 degrees, and it kept a thick smoke going for 12 hours. I suspect the wind helped out a little that day. Pecan and Apple pellets. Didn't go as well Sunday at 225 degrees, different pellets, not near as much smoke, and I lit both ends. I got about 5 hours Sunday, then it was out. Not windy on Sunday. I think the pellets were part of the problem, they were some multi flavored stuff I bought a few months back.


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## trikefreak (Feb 17, 2014)

Oh, and if you want heavy smoke, get the 18" tube! I think it holds almost twice as many pellets, and burns through them in 6-8 hrs.


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## smokeitifugotit (Feb 17, 2014)

*Steelcity, don't feel your questions are stupid.  We all assume because you're probably a Steelers fan, that you can't be held responsible for your shortcomings.  However, even though I'm a Browns fan, I do agree with you that the Pitmaster blend burns better than any I've tried.
Seriously though, glad you've worked it out.

Fred from Cleveland .  :biggrin::*


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## steelcitysmoke (Feb 17, 2014)

SmokeItIfUGotIt said:


> *Steelcity, don't feel your questions are stupid. We all assume because you're probably a Steelers fan, that you can't be held responsible for your shortcomings. However, even though I'm a Browns fan, I do agree with you that the Pitmaster blend burns better than any I've tried.
> Seriously though, glad you've worked it out.
> 
> Fred from Cleveland .
> ...


Hey Fred,

I'm actually with you! I'm one of the few Steeler haters in Pittsburgh. CAN'T STAND THEM! Huge Penguins fan though.


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