# New smoker MES 2.5 - Pulled Pork not so juicy



## mikeperez (Sep 29, 2018)

I just completed my second smoke ever with my mes 2.5. I cooked the pulled pork for a total time of 8hrs, and although the taste was ok, it wasn't as juicy as I thought it should have been. 

Any tips for next time?


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## uncle eddie (Sep 29, 2018)

What was the internal temp when you pulled it?
Did you wrap it - and at what temp
Water in pan or no

A few more details and I am sure you will get some pointers


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## chef jimmyj (Sep 29, 2018)

What temp did you smoke at? Butt weight? Butts are forgiving but there are procedures to follow and smoker and internal temps to use as guidelines...JJ


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## TomKnollRFV (Sep 29, 2018)

With pork butt, the internal temperature is what decides if it's done or not. 205f Internal Temp is when you pull.

Judging from the cook time, even doing a hot and fast, I suspect you simply pulled to early. Just my two cents judging from things as I also run a MES 2.5 Hybrid and do a pulled pork on average, weekly


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## jted (Sep 30, 2018)

Hi,
 Just tell us about your cook.
There are several procedures most people follow.
Also it would be good to know what you expect and  want as a finished product. 
Pulled pork is a very popular smoke and most have their own procedure to achieve  there  wants. 
You have taken the first step by asking.   Jted


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## zwiller (Sep 30, 2018)

I have a hybrid MES (GEN2 guts and GEN1 body) and no way an average size butt would be done in 8hrs even at 275F.  Mine are usually 7-9lbs and take on average 12-14hrs or so.  I estimate 2hrs/lb these days.


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## mikeperez (Oct 1, 2018)

I'm sorry if what I'm about to type sounds like bad smoking practice. it was only my second smoke. My total time was 9hrs, and not 8. 

I cut the 8# butt in half as it would have been too much meat for my family.

1. I coated it with mustard and then put a Webbers rub on it. The rub was OK. I let it sit overnight.
2. Woke up at 6am and heated the MES at 230 and put the chips in.
3. Got the butt out of fridge and put some more rub on it.
4. The smoker was full of white smoke when I went to put the meat in it. Is that normal?
5. Put the pork butt in the smoker. Also put the Amazen TUBE IN THERE.
6. I let it smoke for 5 hours and checked the temp. it was 155 in some spots, and 165 in othes.
7. I wrapped it with foil and put some apple cider in it, then bumped the temp to 270.
8. Let is smoke for 2 more hours and internal temp was 195-198 everywhere.
9. Let it rest for 30min (this is where I think I messed up).

The pork butt somehow tasted better two hours later after pulling it.I had water in the water bowl. I don't understand what it does. how wide should the vents be open? With the amazen tube, there was a constant white smoke coming from vents.

I think next time I will go even slower. It had a tremendous bark and smoke flavor to it. I spruced the pulled pork with some apple cider and taste wise it was very good, but I know good bbq should need nothing to taste good and juicy.

thank you


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## mikeperez (Oct 1, 2018)




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## chef jimmyj (Oct 1, 2018)

When chips get started they give a lot of white smoke. It will settle. Why are you using chips anyway. You got the Tube. The tube too will initially smoke heavily then settle. Vent should be wide open and feeder pulled out a couple of inches. This give max air flow to help the pellets burn clean and blue. Water in the pan is not needed. Water helps regulate temp swings. In electric smokers the electronics regulates the swings. The water just slows things down and makes the system work harder and use more electricity.
Define tasted better? If you mean smokier, that is common. You go Nose Blind fussing with the smoker. So the first taste of meat shortly after smoking taste bland. A few hours later your nose recovers and so does the flavor. Many guys smoke a day ahead just to sense more of the flavors the next day...JJ


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## mikeperez (Oct 1, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> When chips get started they give a lot of white smoke. It will settle. Why are you using chips anyway. You got the Tube. The tube too will initially smoke heavily then settle. Vent should be wide open and feeder pulled out a couple of inches. This give max air flow to help the pellets burn clean and blue. Water in the pan is not needed. Water helps regulate temp swings. In electric smokers the electronics regulates the swings. The water just slows things down and makes the system work harder and use more electricity.
> Define tasted better? If you mean smokier, that is common. You go Nose Blind fussing with the smoker. So the first taste of meat shortly after smoking taste bland. A few hours later your nose recovers and so does the flavor. Many guys smoke a day ahead just to sense more of the flavors the next day...JJ



I used both chips and the tube for more smoke. I guess it was overkill. I think you are right about the taste thing. 

I read a lot here before getting my used smoker, but also watched lots of youtube video. the information overload can be a bit much. Aaron Franklin of Franklin BBQ down in Austin, smoked his pork butt at 270. 

thank you for your suggestions.


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## TomKnollRFV (Oct 1, 2018)

You can smoke pork butt at 225 to the max a MES Goes <275f>. 

You still did pull it to early, 205f Internal Temp is when you want to pull pork butt..and yep, a Waterpan in a MES is completely unnecessary. Just line it with foil as it catches drippings, makes it easier to clean.


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## zwiller (Oct 1, 2018)

mikeperez said:


> I'm sorry if what I'm about to type sounds like bad smoking practice. it was only my second smoke. My total time was 9hrs, and not 8.
> 
> I cut the 8# butt in half as it would have been too much meat for my family.
> 
> ...



Smoked 50lbs of PP for daughter's grad party this summer...  Learned alot doing things back to back.  My thoughts:

Always smoke the whole bad boy and vac seal and freeze in smaller portions for later.  (you will thank me later)  

1. No mustard for me.  Inject and overnight uncovered rest (pellicle) is essential.  
2. 275F hot and fast on everything.  
3. A little rub is all that's necessary.  No need to do twice.  
4. White smoke is bad.  You want TBS.  Barely visable...
5. Check.
6. Time for a remote therm.  
7. No foil for me.  BARK!
8.  I pull around 205F.  Bone should basically just fall out and the meat should come out in large chunks.
9. Rest is fine.  

Ditch water pan.  Line with foil and catch drips.  Vent wide open.  Check out Chef JJ's finishing sauce.  I NEVER eat anything I smoke that day.  Far easier to do in advance.  

Bottom line, pulled too soon.  If you want to take things to another level try injection and apple juice/cider is my base and a great foray into injecting.


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## mds51 (Oct 1, 2018)

Does anyone have the new MES 240G Electric Smoker and uses the AMNPS in it ? I am getting my son in California started using the AMAZEN products and pellets after he saw my set up here in Oklahoma City. I looked at this model on the company`s website and see that the area I put my AMNPs on in my Gen #1 MES is different. I would appreciate any suggestions or experience with this model.
Thanks
mds51


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## TomKnollRFV (Oct 1, 2018)

mds51 said:


> Does anyone have the new MES 240G Electric Smoker and uses the AMNPS in it ? I am getting my son in California started using the AMAZEN products and pellets after he saw my set up here in Oklahoma City. I looked at this model on the company`s website and see that the area I put my AMNPs on in my Gen #1 MES is different. I would appreciate any suggestions or experience with this model.
> Thanks
> mds51


If I recall, it's like mine, and I use the AMNPS. I put mine on the left side on the very bottom.


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## zwiller (Oct 1, 2018)

If there is any issue (I doubt it) place on 4th rack and drip pan on 3rd like I do on my MES30 hybrid.


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## jted (Oct 1, 2018)

Hi Mike, You did not do everything wrong. Chef Jimmy knows what he is doing. You won't go wrong following his suggestions. Here are  a couple of things I would point out. Some people will not like the fact that you cut your butt in half. I often do the same thing since there is only 2 of us left at home. Cutting the meat will not cut the smoke time
in half.
Most use chips or pellets not both. The white smoke is known as bad smoke. You need to avoid the bad smoke. It will make your meat bitter. You will hear the term TBS or thin blue smoke used
that is what you want. Keep your vent wide open. A lot of folks don't use there water pan with water. 
 I am one of those who don't. I foil and use it as a extra drip pan. I foil every thing I can to make clean up easier.  That includes the bottom tray as well as the heat shield 
Some people foil at the stall , about 160 IT others don't I don't I like the  hard bark that comes from  cooking the butt naked. It is a matter of preference. Know that naked smoking takes longer.
You used the mustard to make your rub stick. You can use other things to do that including olive oil 
At times I use honey so try what make sense to you.
Most or a lot of people use a finishing sauce. Do a forum search for finishing sauces. I like Chef Jimmy's.  
When your meat is at it's desired IT. Wrap in foil and  a towel or two and let it sit in a empty ice chest or in the smoker that has cooled to 140 degrees  for at least 90 minutes. 
The Chef is right about your meat tasting better the next day. 
Low under 250 degrees or fast over 250. 

When I pull a low and slow butt it get very little fat that has not been rendered. I find more when it is cooked hot and fast. 
Mike these are just *Opinions*. Hopefully you will get others to think about.  There are very few hard and fast rules.  That is enough for now.  Jted


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## mikeperez (Oct 1, 2018)

I appreciate all your suggestions. I think I was rushing the smoke process due to wanting to "play" with my new toy, and to eat the pork during football. I will try to smoke a day before, so the temptations to rush things is taken away. 

where can I find the chef's finishing sauce, and where/when do you use it?


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 1, 2018)

These are two favorite Finishing Sauces. They are added while pulling and served at the table for an extra punch...JJ 

*Tangy Pulled Pork Finishing Sauce*

This is more of an Eastern North Carolina style Finishing Sauce...

2 C Apple Cider Vinegar

2T Worcestershire Sauce or more to taste

1/4C Brown Sugar

1T Smoked Paprika

2 tsp Granulated Garlic

2 tsp Granulated Onion

2 tsp Fine Grind Black Pepper

1 tsp Celery Salt

1 tsp Cayenne Pepper or Red Pepper Flake. Add more if you like Heat.

1/2 tsp Grnd Allspice

Combine all and whisk well. This is a thin sauce, bring just to a simmer and remove from heat. Adjust sweetness by adding Brn Sugar or additional Vinegar as desired...Makes about 2 Cups.

For a *Lexington Style Dip* add, 1/2C Ketchup and 1-3tsp Red Pepper Flakes...JJ

*POP Sauce*

2C Cola

1/2C Apple Cider Vinegar

2T Rub, whatever's on the meat.

1T Mustard

1T Molasses

1T Colgin Hickory Liquid Smoke (optional)

Add all to a pot and bring to a simmer, for 5 minutes.

For Finishing Sauce, keep warm and add to meat.

For Marinade, cool for 30 minutes the refrigerate until cold.

Marinate meat overnight.

For Glaze, reduce over low heat until syrupy. Brush over grilling meat and caramelize.

Enough for one average butt


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## normanaj (Oct 1, 2018)

chef jimmyj!!!Someone else who uses a cola(pop) based sauce,will have to try!

Mine is super basic but its something I've always liked:

2 cans RC Cola (use 1 if you want it thick and really spicy)
1 bottle Melindas Habanero ketchup or whatever flavor of their ketchup you like.
1 or 2 shots of JD or JB 
5-10mins on a low simmer until you get that "consistency".

This is so easily tweaked to taste depending on what soft drink you use and what ketchup you use.Its a go-to for me when I want no-fuss sauce.


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 1, 2018)

This one is thin but that Habanero Ketchup sounds good. A small, 6oz , can Tomato Paste would work as well. The kids like Dr. Pepper, I have been wanting to try a Cherry soda like Cheerwine...JJ


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## fivetricks (Oct 1, 2018)

Another vote here for extended time and always running exhaust wide open. Manage your temps at the bottom, not the top. This applies to any format of smoker.

Also, some butts aren't as great as others in the intramuscular fat Dept. If I we're you, I'd look into one of the finishing sauces for the other half when you do it.

I bought and smoked 100lbs of butts in June that were not so good in the quality Dept. Had to do a bunch ofof finishing tricks on them. Sometimes it happens.

Don't get discouraged. It's all about making the next one a little better than the one before it.

Also, pitch that smoking tray Bs and get you a mailbox mod. Way better.


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## TomKnollRFV (Oct 2, 2018)

Some thing to add in about finishing sauce;

I do not sauce my pulled pork, people can sauce their own, I keep it unadorned because pulled pork can be repurposed for a ton of different things:
*Pulled Pork burritos or tacos.
*Use it in fried rice.
*Eggrolls
*Stews
*Stroganoff

If you don't have one yet, you might want to invest in a vaccum sealer ;)


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## fivetricks (Oct 2, 2018)

^^^ agree with that 100% when you have a good smoke, but sometimes some people get stuck with a bad cut or lack the experience to get that great smoke.

It's simply my contention that a solid finishing strategy can help mask the undesirable parts of a subpar cook.


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## mikeperez (Oct 2, 2018)

fivetricks said:


> Another vote here for extended time and always running exhaust wide open. Manage your temps at the bottom, not the top. This applies to any format of smoker.
> 
> Also, some butts aren't as great as others in the intramuscular fat Dept. If I we're you, I'd look into one of the finishing sauces for the other half when you do it.
> 
> ...


How should the smoke look when coming out of the exhaust? When do you add the chips, after the smoker has warmed up? is the heavy smoke haze a good thing? 

I want to know what the thin blue smoke looks like. I had a family member (has a great palate) say that there is a bit of bitter after taste to the meat. I suspect this to be due to too much smoke.


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## jted (Oct 2, 2018)

Mike'
Here is a great picture of Blue smoke in this case it is not thin but it is blue







With your MES it should be visible but not too thick coming out of your of your wide open vent. 
This picture has been floating around the forum for many years.


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## mikeperez (Oct 8, 2018)

I tried the pork butt again this weekend with much better results. The meat was juicy and tender. The bark was better. I just ate some for lunch, and it was still juicy. 

Here's what I changed: 
1. Used olive oil as binder, instead of mustard. 
2. I let it rest in the fridge uncovered. 
3. smoked it at 225 for 9.5hrs until it reached 205F. 
4. Let is rest for one hours. 

Thanks for all your help. People who tried it, complemented the meat. People at work came to the break room to see where the amazing BBQ smell was coming from.


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## jted (Oct 8, 2018)

Mike,
Good job.  jted


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## mikeperez (Oct 9, 2018)

Thanks guys. 

Did I tell you I bought my MES used for $100? It looked pretty dirty. I tried to clean a bit, especially the door.  My family member who previously said the meat had a bitter aftertaste said that the second pork butt still had the bitter aftertaste but not as much as the first one. 

I used the amazen tube with hickory, and did not use wood chips. I opened the wood chip tray about 2 inches. I did not taste the bitterness, but I trust her taste buds. 

Do you think creosote may be causing the bitter aftertaste? I thought the amazen tube took care of this issue.  

I have good coffee taste buds, and I can taste sour vs bitter in coffee, but I didn't taste bitterness in this meat. 

I've read some thread on creosote, but still unclear if I have it in my smoker.


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## zwiller (Oct 9, 2018)

Doubt it is creosote.  I'd trust my nose.  If smoker smells good, it is.  If there was only one complaint then I’d say isolated case of sensitivity.  Some people don’t like PP with heavy bark and prefer it like crock pot made and they are weirdos. :p   

That's the best way to get good: repetition.


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