# BUGS IN MY FLOUR



## Slow42

Hello bakers, preppers. I have a problem with getting bugs in my stored flour, less than a year. I put them in what I think are air tight containers, tupperware etc. and still I get bugs. It doesn’t matter if it’s loose flour or bagged flour. Any suggestions on how to avoid this. Thanks


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## HalfSmoked

Sorry to tell you but those bug eggs are already in your flour when you buy it. Keeping in fridge or freezer will prevent then from hatching.  

Warren


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## Slow42

So bug eggs or live bugs any safe product to mix with flour to prevent eggs from hatching outside freezing? I have to much for freezer or refrigerator.  All flour has bug eggs?


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## Bearcarver

We used to have them in our cereal when I was a Kid. Cherios, Frosted Flakes, Puffed Rice, etc.  Bugs were born in there, in the unopened box. My Mother used to send the box tops to the Manufacturer, with a note, and they'd send us new boxes of cereal. It was like a Monthly Thing!!

BTW: Yes they even had cereal when I was just a Cub!!

Bear


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## Smokin' in AZ

My wife always puts it in the freezer for awhile when she buys a bag to kill those suckers.


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## HalfSmoked

Thanks for the like Slow42 it is appreciated.

Warren


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## Slow42

Freezing it is then. I’ll give it a try then store outside a cold environmen. Unfortunately the wife has already seen the little critters and I’ll have to throw away I’m supply. I have trouble finding double zero flour so I buy a bit when I find it.


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## flagriller

Put the flour in the  freezer for 48 hours, this will kill the eggs as mentioned. Then you can put into
1lb zip locks, I always keep mine in the freezer or fridge.


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## Slow42

Thanks very good idea. Will freezing effect the quality of the flour ie: my sourdough starter. Killing bugs is great but is the quality still there?


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## flagriller

I don't know if I would put the starter in the freezer. No, flour in the freezer will not affect it.  Each of my bags has 1 pound of flour in it, you want to get as much air out as possible, so I roll the bag up.  
When making pizza crust there has, to my perception been no difference.

When making crust I keep the dough in the fridge for 8 days and make pizza crust bread, take the dough, put EVOO, salt, pepper, and garlic on top. Have the oven and stone pre-heated at 500* ,
place dough on stone and cook until done.  Cut in half length wise the cross cut into pieces.


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## chef jimmyj

Why do you think so many old time Flour based recipes say, " Sift the Flour..."? Grandma bought 50 to 100 pounds at a time. It got bugs before it could be used up. You Sifted to remove them. There is no safety issue having buggie flour. So don't toss it Sift it...JJ


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## Slow42

Yes sifting was my first thought but then the wife stepped in. Anyone here who’s wife will let them bake with bugs in the flour, after sifting? She asked if sifting it removed the bugs poop. Good question I thought.


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## chef jimmyj

You are taking Micro Grams of Poop in Pounds of Flour. Your wife is eating MORE Poop if she keeps herToothbrush in the Bathroom!Y'all eat Peanut Butter. Look up the Fed regulation on grams of Rat and Mouse Poop ALLOWED in Peanut Butter. Your Wife a fan of Tilapia? The fish are frequently fed Animal Manure to supplement the Grain cost. You like to eat in Restaurants? The Number One Safety Violation...Employees not washing their hands after using the Restroom. Your Wife buy Fruit and Salad from Grocery Cold Bars? The nasty stuff in them would keep you up at night!
Trust Me! A little Flour Weevil Poop is the least of what you eat, every day!!!...JJ


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## TNJAKE

chef jimmyj said:


> You are taking Micro Grams of Poop in Pounds of Flour. Your wife is eating MORE Poop if she keeps herToothbrush in the Bathroom!Y'all eat Peanut Butter. Look up the Fed regulation on grams of Rat and Mouse Poop ALLOWED in Peanut Butter. Your Wife a fan of Tilapia? The fish are frequently fed Animal Manure to supplement the Grain cost. You like to eat in Restaurants? The Number One Safety Violation...Employees not washing their hands after using the Restroom. Your Wife buy Fruit and Salad from Grocery Cold Bars? The nasty stuff in them would keep you up at night!
> Trust Me! A little Flour Weevil Poop is the least of what you eat, every day!!!...JJ


Lmao!


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## bregent

flagriller said:


> Put the flour in the freezer for 48 hours, this will kill the eggs as mentioned.



That's what I do. I buy specialty flours from a bulk bin at a nearby market. I will always get bugs hatching from them if I don't freeze first. I don't store it frozen, just freeze it initially for 2-3 days and then store at room temp and there's never a problem.


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## flagriller

I buy bulk 50lb bags, mostly All Trumps and Bouncer flours  for regular pizzas, if I'm doing pizza margherita I use 00  Caputo at 60% hydration. Make sure the flour is high gluten and protein.


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## Slow42

Flagriller never heard of those flours. In my area for personal use the only thing I can find is King Arthur unbleached flours, lots of other brands of bleached flours. I can’t even find Rye flour with a 30 mile radius of my home, Publix’s, Kroger’s, Walmart, BI-lO, IGA, etc. I also use 00 flour for my pizza dough when I can  find it.  On a trip to Florida I found an Italian grocery that carried a few brands of 00 and I purchased about 30 pounds, the flour the bugs got.  So when if find 00 again I’ll try the freeze method.

I told my wife what chef JimmyJ said about the flour and other foods and her response was, well!


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## flagriller

I'm not sure where you are, but if you have a GFS (Gordon Food Service) in your area they
sell All Trumps and Bouncer as well as Caputo. Also online








						Flours
					






					www.bakersauthority.com
				




Or Brick Oven Baker








						BrickOvenBaker
					

Antimo Caputo's famous 00 flour, GI.METAL's professional pizza peels, and more great products for making you better at your craft while having more fun doing it




					brickovenbaker.com
				




Also remember, you are going to cook the flour so that pretty much kills everything.


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## bregent

I'd also recommend All Trumps if you can find it, especially for NY style.  We can't get bromated flour in California, so I use GrainCraft Power Flour, which is also excellent for the style.
There's little benefit for using Caputo 00 unless you are making Neapolitan with temps of at least 700F.  In many cases it's counter productive.


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## Slow42

Interesting about the 00 flour and temperature.  I can only get to 550 degrees unless using my grill. I’ll have to say I like the way the dough comes out using the 00. Or it may be just the technique I use for the dough and any flour would do. Bergent and flagriller you seem quite knowledgeable about flour and pizza dough. What is your recipe for a great thin crust pizza dough, New York style, I think more correctly New Haven Ct style. I checked on bakers authority and they have everything I want but the shipping is a killer.

I’ve delved into making sourdough bread and that is turning out to be quite the challenge.  Looked so simple and I watched a ton of videos on the subject.  I’m on my 5th loaf attempt as we speak.  I’ve got the starter down but apparently not the rest of the technique.  Temperature is part of the problem in the proofing department. I have no problem with bread using regular yeast.  Thanks again for all your input.


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## flagriller

00 Caputo for Neapolitan   at high temps is correct. I have a dedicated pizza oven that can reach 1100* and for high temps for Neapolitan  you'll need to use biscotto saputo bricks or it'll burn. 
pizza stones and oven floors it's all about heat transfer.


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## bregent

Slow42 said:


> What is your recipe for a great thin crust pizza dough, New York style,



This is my current recipe (bakers percentage)
Power Flour 100%
Salt 2.5%
Sugar 1.5%
Instant Dry Yeast: 0.4%
Water: 59%
Oil: 1.5%
Low Diastatic Malt Powder: 1%

That's for a same day dough. If making a 3-day retarded dough I use basically the same formula but make sure the water is cold and bump the yeast to 0.58%.  I bake at 550 on a stone and with a stone on top as well.
I know New Haven is slightly different but not sure exactly how. If you're not already a member at pizzamaking.com, I'd highly recommend it. Folks there know everything about every style and are more than happy to help you along.

For sourdough bread, I recommend the book "Tartine" as it has great insights into fermentation schedules and bread formulas that just don't fail. I've been making sourdough on and off for 20+ years, but that book really help me get to the point where I want to be.  Here are a few recent loafs:





__





						Sourdough Batard
					

Kids were making sausage and chicken gumbo - I supplied the bread.




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				




I'd also suggest using this starter technique: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40918/no-muss-no-fuss-starter

It's really no maintenance and no waste and I've been using it for a year with excellent results.


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## flagriller

Slow42 said:


> Interesting about the 00 flour and temperature.  I can only get to 550 degrees unless using my grill. I’ll have to say I like the way the dough comes out using the 00. Or it may be just the technique I use for the dough and any flour would do. Bergent and flagriller you seem quite knowledgeable about flour and pizza dough. What is your recipe for a great thin crust pizza dough, New York style, I think more correctly New Haven Ct style. I checked on bakers authority and they have everything I want but the shipping is a killer.
> 
> I’ve delved into making sourdough bread and that is turning out to be quite the challenge.  Looked so simple and I watched a ton of videos on the subject.  I’m on my 5th loaf attempt as we speak.  I’ve got the starter down but apparently not the rest of the technique.  Temperature is part of the problem in the proofing department. I have no problem with bread using regular yeast.  Thanks again for all your input.


 What part of the country do you live in? I have a thin crust recipe at home, I'll send it your way a little later.  NY style dough when done correctly it appears almost translucent. 
I might add, with dough it's done on a % basis; so start with 100% flour, X % water, X% yeast, X% salt, X% sugar all %'s in relation to the flour weight. 
How are you proofing? Cold or room temp or combo? 
Stay tuned for the recipe.


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## Slow42

Originally from Connecticut moved to the Carolinas about 10 years ago. I only cold proof pizza dough now, couple of days. The recipe I use, New York style, is about 60%+/- hydration, 0.4% yeast, 1.5% salt, 1.5% oil, and 1% sugar. I have used and not used sugar and I can’t tell the difference so I just use it in case I’m missing something.


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## flagriller

Sugar does two things, feeds the yeast and helps brown the crust. Here is the recipe I use
(Makes four 12-inch pizzas) For the dough: 1 teaspoon active dry yeast 1 teaspoon sugar ¼ cup warm water 2 cups warm water 1 tablespoon sugar 1 tablespoon salt ¼ cup olive oil 5 cups bread flour, plus more as needed Bloom the yeast in a stand mixer bowl with the teaspoon of sugar and ¼ cup water. When it’s frothy, add the rest of the ingredients and mix with the dough hook until a smooth ball comes together. It should be only slightly sticky; if it’s very sticky, add additional flour. Divide dough into four equal parts, roll each into a smooth ball and place in its own, well-oiled bowl. Age in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours or up to a week. For the sauce: 1 28-ounce can whole San Marzano tomatoes ¼ cup olive oil ½ teaspoon sugar, or more to taste 1 teaspoon dried oregano 2 tablespoons tomato paste Remove tomatoes from their canning liquid and discard the liquid. Squish or blend the tomatoes until smooth. Add remaining ingredients and mix until smooth. Makes enough for four pizzas. For the cheese: 6 ounces whole-milk, low-moisture mozzarella per pizza Grated parmesan for dusting Assembly: Place pizza stone on middle rack and preheat oven on its maximum temperature for one hour. Use convection setting, if available. After pre-heating, stretch pizza dough and place on a well-dusted peel (stone-ground whole-wheat flour works best). Top with sauce, dusting of parmesan, and then the mozzarella. Bake for 5-6 minutes. Rest on cooling rack before slicing.


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## chef jimmyj

Flagriller, I use a similar recipe. Only 2T EVOO and I use Fast Rise. There is no pre-proofing the yeast. Just mix all and refer overnight. I need to try the extra oil to see the results. Thanks. Oh yeah, the San Marzano Tomato Juice is tasty as is or makes a Great Bloody Mary!...JJ


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## flagriller

chef jimmyj said:


> Flagriller, I use a similar recipe. Only 2T EVOO and I use Fast Rise. There is no pre-proofing the yeast. Just mix all and refer overnight. I need to try the extra oil to see the results. Thanks. Oh yeah, the San Marzano Tomato Juice is tasty as is or makes a Great Bloody Mary!...JJ



Truth is I just eyeball the EVOO.   I like to bloom the yeast. Are you using instant yeast or active dry?


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## chef jimmyj

Quick Rise, Instant and Bread Machine Yeast are all Instant Yeast. I Add to Dry Ingredients and go. Saves 15 minutes or so...JJ


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## flagriller

What bread machine do you use?  I was thinking of trying one.


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## chef jimmyj

LOL, a Kitchen Aid Artisan Mixer. I have to bake at least 2 loaves at a time. My family will eat one loaf standing around the counter, as soon as the bread is cool enough to handle.
I'm an Old School Guy. Grandma taught me how to make Bread, by Hand, 50 years ago and I trained with 2 highly respected Bakers in PA. I just never bothered getting a Machine...JJ


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## flagriller

Sweet, I do the same with a Kitchen Aide with the DC motor, it's direct drive and a beast! 
I grew up just East of Philly with Italian, Polish, and Czech friends and relatives and food/cooking was always a family affair.


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