# Anyone tried adding charcoal to an MES?



## davenh (Mar 9, 2008)

I've seen a few post where it was recommended to add a lit charcoal briquette to create the smoke ring in an electric smoker.  Has anyone tried it? 

Seems most feel the flavor and smokiness is superior on charcoal and wood burners. Would it be reasonable to think that small pieces of charcoal to the wood tray in the MES might come closer?

I must confess that after reading about that I ran out and bought a small bag and a small boneless pork butt to test it out 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






. My girl had her heart set on salmon, so thats in there too. I told her the pork butt was for experimental purposes 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. (we get to eat that tomorrow).

More food for thought, will consistently adding charcoal pieces (3/4 of a larger briquette) to the wood tray every half hour or so gives the MES a little boost in BTUs? Seems to be recovering a little better with charcoal shots, smoke seems a little more consistent too. Wondering if there is something to that or just wishful thinking 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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Hey..worst case it was a fun try and I get another tasty meal 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## mossymo (Mar 9, 2008)

DaveNH
I have never ttried it, I am interested in hearing your outcome.


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## illini (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Dave
What happened to the cal-rod deal you bent?....Did it not work out?????

I have considered doing just what you have done today......Did you prelight them or just add cold?.....What do you think of your outcome of using them?.......anything get over heated inside the chip pan area?

More info Please!!!!!!!!


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## davenh (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi illini,
I'm waiting on another heater, got a little overzealous with bending the element. I tried re-bending to shorten it up a little and cracked the sheath. I should learn by now to leave well enough alone 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. Good news is I have a couple more a little better sized coming into the shop, two weeks on the delivery. After trying this I might hold off putting in the element. I'm thinking there is some added heat coming from the burning charcoal. 

I just put in a handful of charcoal pieces and a few mini chunks of wood and let it go. The heat from the element tray and burning wood get the charcoal going no problem. At least I think so, it keeps taking more so it must be burning down 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. I don't see any overheating issues, yet anyways. I'll see what happens after I pull the tray out. I'm thinking extra heat could be generated by adding lots of wood, that would mean too much smoke. Where a small handful of charcoal pieces (3/4 stone sized) will just add heat. The controller is cycling on less. Normally, this would mean less smoke, but the burning charcoal keeps the mini chunks going consistently.

I'll post back more results after I pull out the pork butt 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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Disclaimer***Drinking beer may cloud this experiment, so results should be taken lightly****
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	









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## lawdog (Mar 9, 2008)

DaveNH,

I tried it for the forst time last week. I hadn't been betting any ring in my MES and I added two unlit brickettes to the smoke and came out with this.

Not real deep so next time I will try 1 more.
I have also used morton's tender quick insted of salt and it will produce a pretty good ring.

Good luck
Lawdog


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## davenh (Mar 10, 2008)

Ok ready....here are the results....I like charcoal in my MES 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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I'm not an expert at smoke rings, but this looks ok to me. It added some nice color. I'm not sure if the charcoal addition imparted extra flavor or not, I will say this stuff taste fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. After a few beers while cooking I'm fighting with myself to stay away from it 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	









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Illini...the chip tray held up fine. Nothing over heated and it held all the ash from the smoking.

Here is some q-view.


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## mossymo (Mar 10, 2008)

I must say, looks darn good !!!


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## ptjd (Mar 10, 2008)

Interesting, I'll have to try that.


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## illini (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanks Brian
That smoke looks good to me
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I will be giving that method a try very soon


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## morkdach (Mar 10, 2008)

i add unlit charcoal thru out the smoke depending on out side temp.
there is enough heat off the element to light them i do not gain much over 10deg. but it help generate the tbs.


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## pitrow (Mar 10, 2008)

what kind of charcoal are you using? Lump, briquette? I have some briquettes that have embedded mesquite in it. I may just try that in my next smoke, as I seem to have a problem with keeping the smoke thin and blue.


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## davenh (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi PitRow...I used briquettes. I went to Wally World (Walmart) and picked up a bag of Sam's Choice plain stuff, the bag says it burns clean. 

I put the charcoal (3/4 of a chopped up briquette) in with a couple small chunks of wood, every half hour or so. I don't use chips in my MES. I've been buying chunks and then chopping them into smaller chunks that fit the load tube. 

I'll be doing a few boneless butts for Saturday, so I'll see if the results are the same.


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## pitrow (Mar 13, 2008)

Well I tried it yesterday on a pork loin, and I have to say I'm hooked. I put a whole briquette in with the initial load of wood chips and it worked great. I didn't have nearly the problems I usually do with the smoke getting white and billowy, and the temperature seemed to stay more consistent through out the smoke. 


I only used the one briquette, mostly because it was a small loin and a short smoke. It was one of the briquettes with embedded mesquite and it worked awesome, great smoke ring and flavor on the loin. 

Sorry no pics, I was busy painting over the graffiti on my fence, since the city told me I had 7 days to remove it or face $150/day fine. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Anyway, I think briquettes will be part of my smoke from now on. Well at least until I upgrade to a stick burner.


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## desertlites (Mar 13, 2008)

I use a 1000 watt element in 1 of my ECB's-hard to hold temp at times-will have to give that a try-graffiti-sheesh-I can hit a spray can from 1000 yards-wouldn't give it a second thought.


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## richtee (Mar 13, 2008)

Folks... I bet a couple preburned chunks during the will give you the same thing with perhaps a better flavor. Anyone wanna try this as I don't have a wattburner?  :{)


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## davenh (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi Richtee...when you say preburned chunks, same as lump charcoal? I tried to find some lump charcoal locally, but had to settle for a bag of briquettes on short notice.


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## davenh (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice PitRow! I'll be doing 3 butts on Friday, then reheating for Saturday's company. I'll post a second batch of results 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 . Sorry to hear about the graffiti :(.

Did you just place the whole briquette off to the side of the chip tray, didn't get in the way of the load tube? How long did you smoke the loin?


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## richtee (Mar 13, 2008)

Not really, altho close. Preburned chunks are just that. Fire them up <I use a spare grate over my turkey fryer> to the point the flames are dwindling...not quite burnt completely, but all black. NOT to grey of course. Then add to the firepit/bowl/whatever.


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## pitrow (Mar 13, 2008)

I just put a small handful of chips in the loader, and then plunked a briquette on top of it. I don't usually use more than a handful of chips at a time otherwise it smokes too much, so I cut back on the chips a little bit and added the briquette. It all went through the load hole just fine, and I didn't have any problems adding chips after that. 

Let's see, the loin was about 2.75 pounds and I think it was in there for 3.5 or 4 hours. Probably should have been just a touch longer as my thermometer only registered 150 degrees, but I was rushed, so I pulled it, sliced it and nuked it (I know, a sin). 

I hope your butts turn out awesome!


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## illini (Mar 19, 2008)

Well yesterday I tried it
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Had 4 brisket flats in the MES 40....Used cowboy lump not briquets....Added twice the volume of lump to wood each time more was needed....That was every 15-30 minutes....Stopped adding when internal of meat was at 150*....Continued until internals reached 190*

Smoke Ring on the Flats?.....Nada...Zip....None....

Does this mean only the manufactured briquets will work?....If so what is in the briquets other than what I thought was fillers and binders?


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## richtee (Mar 19, 2008)

That is strange. You use a water pan? And how's the flavor? I can live without a ring if it's good  :{)


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## illini (Mar 19, 2008)

The only difference yesterday was the addition of the lump....Always use water in the pan with briskets.........Always turn out good.......Not a big deal to me if there is a smoke ring...Thought it would be nice to try......Just wondering why it did not work for me


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## davenh (Mar 19, 2008)

It could be from briquettes containing sodium nitrate? Maybe only briquettes will work for this. I'm not sure what the smoke ring does, if anything, to the flavor. It just feels more authentic. 

Did you notice any difference with the heating or smoke production?  


From Wikipedia,

Charcoal briquettes sold commercially for cooking food can include:[1][2]
Wood charcoal (fuel),
mineral char (fuel),
mineral carbon (fuel),
Limestone (ash colorant),
Starch (binder),
Borax (release agent),
Sodium nitrate (accelerant),
Sawdust.


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## davenh (Mar 19, 2008)

Hey Richtee....Now I remember where I read about Sodium Nitrate...LOL 

Someone PM'd me this little piece of wisdom 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...40270#poststop

"Examples of cured products are ham, bacon, bologna and hotdogs. All of these products have a pink color, which is typical of cured products. When sodium nitrite is combined with meat the pigment myoglobin is converted to nitric oxide myoglobin which is a very dark red color. This state of the pigment myoglobin is not very stable. Upon heating, nitric oxide myoglobin is converted to nitrosylhemochrome, which is the typical pink color of cured meats."


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## richtee (Mar 19, 2008)

Yanno...upon reading the last paragraph again
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Generate smoke from the burning of wood chips or wood logs. Since NO2 is a by-product of incomplete combustion, green wood or wetted wood seems to enhance smoke ring development. Burning green wood or wetted wood also helps to increase the humidity level inside the cooker.
A high temperature flame is needed to create NO2 from nitrogen and oxygen. A smoldering fire without a flame does not produce as much NO2. Consequently, a cooker that uses indirect heat generated from the burning of wood typically will develop a pronounced smoke ring. Have fun cooking. A nice smoke ring can sure make a piece of barbecued meat look attractive.
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It almost seems contradictory. How can you have a high temp flame with green wood? And of course we don't use green wood..I'm sure he was speaking theroretically there. We know the way to provide moisture to the environment inside the smoker is thru a waterpan and mopping. Well, or if you insist, wetting the wood you intend to burn


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## davenh (Mar 19, 2008)

So lump should have worked? I was thinking the only difference in the charcoal briquette was the chemicals added and sodium nitrate will color meat pink. Wonder if when burned releases NO2 or enhances it somehow. Its symbol (NaNO2) has NO2 in it...LOL. My head hurts now! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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## illini (Mar 19, 2008)

Dave...Yes it does produce a little extra btu's....Since my MES 's are both used inside my shed I don't have the problem you are experiencing with wattage....The wood burn is smoothed out and it seems to me that is because of a limited amount of oxygen to support the charcoal and wood chunks....I liked the effect that it had in this respect but was dissipointed that it did not produce a smoke ring....may have to give the manufactured briquets a try
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Todays smoke was three chunks of baby swiss....used peach wood.........then cranked up the heat and put in three fatties (spicy) with cherry wood......Used the 30" MES with my "contraption".....that is the best mod and one everyone should have....you can play with the smoke production very easily.......smoked the cheese at 75* and all the tbs I needed....then cranked up to 230 switched the chunks to cherry and had the identical smoke production...love the thing!!! 


Rich....Does this not cause a controversy for your post about preburning wood in the context of MES smokers?


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## davenh (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi Illini...I'm thinking about your contraption mod, I'm not the best welder, but thinking about maybe giving it a shot. Have you thought about a feed tube add on to your contraption 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





?


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## illini (Mar 20, 2008)

I would not go the feed tube route.......Still need to manipulate the pieces at times.....sometimes need to poke down ashes through the grating which are the heaters.....This thing still requires attention but operates independent of the internal heater.......and you don't need to guess about adding chunks


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## psychobrew (Mar 20, 2008)

I think lump is too high quality.  Over on the Cookshack forums, I learned that the cheaper the charcoal is, the better it is at producing a smoke ring.  It's the impurities you're after if a smoke ring is your goal.


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## tjw in kans (Mar 23, 2008)

tried 4 kingsford briquettes mixed w/hickory chunks sat, and 4 cheap best choice briquettes mixed today, easter, on some flats, no smoke ring here either. so i guess its not the quality or cheapness of the charcoal.


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## davenh (Mar 23, 2008)

Maybe the quantity? I put in 3/4 of a broken up extra large sized briquette (Sam's Choice 60% larger sized, Walmart brand) every 30 min or so when I added wood. Could be all cheap briquettes are not created equal 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





. It did work twice for me. I actually use it all the time now because a great side effect was very consistent smoke with the briquette going in the hopper. Got a Walmart near ya? Maybe try a few Sam's Choice see if it makes any difference.


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## tjw in kans (Mar 23, 2008)

may be a difference between pork and beef, just pulled the slab of pork ribs off, nice smoke ring a good 1/4 inch plus, cooked w/ same as the flat briskets that had none, or maybe the extra fat in the meat helps?


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## davenh (Mar 24, 2008)

Also works on turkey. This is one I did over the weekend. 5.5 hrs. Used the same briquettes, maybe 6 or 7 during the smoke.


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## allen (Mar 25, 2008)

I bought my MES 40" about 4-5 Sat ago and tried different kind's of meat, any way Last Saturday set the temp for 240 for 7 hours,first 2 hours just to get the tempup to that, the meat was 4 1/2lb deer neck roasts, 3 of them anyway temp got to 220 and stayed there after the first 3 hrs. and then it would drop 10 and stay for 1 hr and the door not even opened,what gives? The door gasket has been sealed with Red HI Temp. RTV


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## davenh (Mar 25, 2008)

Hi Allen..how cold was it outside, windy? Couple of basics, which you may already know, did you pre-heat to say 260 - 270 before adding meat and use boiling water in the water pan to start? 

I do think the heater is under powered for using the 40" model in cold weather, better sized for the 30" (same heater). Those with the 30" models don't seem to complain about much about this. 

I found, with my MES (40" also), it had a tough time recovering back to set point temp in cold weather. After loading the meat, or after mopping, the recovery seemed to take a while and the top end was limited. I like to play around with things 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





, so I added an extra heater to mine (different thread). I also found that adding charcoal chunks in with the wood chunks seemed to help with the recovery. Think it adds a few extra BTUs to help the cause. 

Another trick I was going to try was to use 1" thick foil lined foam board insulation to add an extra layer of insulation over the outside. It would be pretty easy with some aluminum duct tape (looks like sticky backed foil) to cut side panels and connect the foam together.

I also added extra latches to the top and bottom of the door to keep it sealed. When the unit was cool the door was fine. I noticed after it heated up, the bottom of the door bowed out slightly causing a pretty good gap along the bottom. This let it draw in cold air through the door instead of through the wood box. The latches keep it sealed now.


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