# Cabela's 40" Black Smoker by Masterbuilt



## Thundamonkey (Dec 28, 2017)

Evening everyone,

I have done some digging around the forum and found some people discussing this smoker but the vast majority of the thread are rather old. Given time has gone by and people have had more experience with the MES 40 (in it's various iterations) I thought I'd check in with people since I am looking at buying the Cabela's 40 inch model. http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-BY-MB-BLACK-SMOKER-W-BT/1934608.uts?slotId=1

Given the video by masterbuilt I believe this to be a gen 2.5 (as it has bluetooth) and comes with the 2 extra racks. Also, seeing as it is a "Cabela's" brand, it is covered with their lifetime warranty. I don't know exactly how that warranty looks for this smoker, and I will dig into that during business hours, but it looks promising.  https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjG56KenqzYAhVO2GMKHWuIBbkQtwIIMDAB&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_TKlpkQXzQ&usg=AOvVaw0RL15aI61MQXI7xsD5LYJC


The smoker is currently on sale for 279 and compared to older gen windowed model at Sam's Club being 329, this seems like a solid deal. I know the Cabela's model doesn't have a window, but none of my older smokers have had windows so I don't think that is a loss. I will be using the AMNPS on this as well.

I look forward to hearing peoples opinion regarding their experiences with it, and also the pricing they have found in recent months. Cheers


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## Braz (Dec 28, 2017)

Windows are overrated in my opinion. It is hard to actually see anything once the smoke gets going anyway. I have even stopped trying to clean the window on mine.


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## zwiller (Dec 28, 2017)

I vote 30 unless you are gung ho and smoke ALOT and large quantities.


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## muddydogs (Dec 28, 2017)

I just purchased the window 40" from cabela's, its a gen 2 with the exhaust stack in the top. I haven't had any problems with it in 4 smokes.
Once I got to looking at the smokers side by side I have no idea why anyone would spend the money on the little 30" MES, thing is small. I guess if you're only smoking a steak or pork butt it might be fine but if your making jerky, sausages or want to took some ribs get the 40".


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 28, 2017)

Thank you all, I appreciate your time for replying. 

I don't know if I "need" the 40 inch, and it is double the price of the current hybrid 30-inch model I am looking at, but I love the increased space and extra racks, plus the bigger element is going to be helpful to maintain temps/improve recovery. 

My main concern is that I am going to have to get this shipped to a carrier and then across the border to me, so I fear it'll be damaged or missing parts. Unlikely, but dealing with cross-border stuff is always difficult. I love the idea of the smoker, but I am wavering on the impact of buying cross-border. It sure does look impressive though. I wouldn't need anything else down the road, so there's that bonus. 

I tried calling the Canadian Cabela's and they said they aren't even the same company in Canada, so the warranty isn't honoured here either. That lowers the "value" of the perceived lifetime warranty so who knows. I just wish there were other options here in Canada but I can't find a single gen 2.5 40 inch for sale in Canada (except 3rd party amazon sellers for 900+ dollars). Hmmmm


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 28, 2017)

Just watched a video and it shows a Gen 2.5 in the video. 6 racks. Looks good.


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 28, 2017)

Rings Я Us said:


> Just watched a video and it shows a Gen 2.5 in the video. 6 racks. Looks good.


I think so too lol. 

I just did my final math and I seemed to have missed about a hundred bucks, so it'll be about 525 all in compared to my original hybrid model linked above for 230. That changes things a bit maybe.


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 28, 2017)

Thundamonkey said:


> I think so too lol.
> 
> I just did my final math and I seemed to have missed about a hundred bucks, so it'll be about 525 all in compared to my original hybrid model linked above for 230. That changes things a bit maybe.



There is a Cabelas in Marysville Washington you could go pick one up at if you can get over there.. Lol Its not far by boat but kinda far by car.


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## rexster314 (Dec 28, 2017)

I bought a plain black propane MES 40 for 199 this morning at Cabela's. Seeing as how I'll use it more with an AMAZEN tube, that's all I needed.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 28, 2017)

You've probably seen my opinions all over the place already, but:
Gen #2.5 is best.
Gen #1 is second best.
Try to avoid the MES Gen #2.
MES 40 is a must, unless extenuating circumstances like living in BC makes it too hard to happen.

I started with an MES 30 without a Window, and I would never again buy an MES 30 or an MES without a Window.
It's easy to clean, and if it's kept clean you can see quite good.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 28, 2017)

Rings Я Us said:


> There is a Cabelas in Marysville Washington you could go pick one up at if you can get over there.. Lol Its not far by boat but kinda far by car.


It isn't crazy far, but the ferry and time is more than the savings I'd have of having it shipped. I'm looking at various options right now, but I still really want this one lol


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 28, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> You've probably seen my opinions all over the place already, but:
> Gen #2.5 is best.
> Gen #1 is second best.
> Try to avoid the MES Gen #2.
> ...


I agree, and I am aiming for the 2.5. I think I can easily manage with a 30 right now, but in a few years, who knows. I like the idea of having room to grow, just not sure how much that idea if worth cost wise :)


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## GaryHibbert (Dec 28, 2017)

If I were you and really wanted that MES 40, I'd just make a weekend of it and drive down.  Nowhere in Washington is very far from BC.  The biggest PIA would be the ferry ride over to Vancouver and back.  Just don't forget to figure in an extra 5% GST on the Cdn dollar equivalent when you go through customs on the way home.
Me, I just have a MES 30 Gen 1.  It's more than big enough for Miss Linda and me.  And, contrary to most people, I could care less about a window--glass doesn't make good Q.
Gary


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 28, 2017)

GaryHibbert said:


> If I were you and really wanted that MES 40, I'd just make a weekend of it and drive down.  Nowhere in Washington is very far from BC.  The biggest PIA would be the ferry ride over to Vancouver and back.  Just don't forget to figure in an extra 5% GST on the Cdn dollar equivalent when you go through customs on the way home.
> Me, I just have a MES 30 Gen 1.  It's more than big enough for Miss Linda and me.  And, contrary to most people, I could care less about a window--glass doesn't make good Q.
> Gary


I hear you, I am open to making the drive of it, although I don't know how feasible a few days away from home is going to be. I'd be more inclined to just bite the bullet and buy the damn thing and have it brought over for local pickup. The extra 100ish bucks to have that service done is well below the cost of the ferries alone (170 for both ways) let alone all the other jazz. As for the window, I can see it being a neat bonus, but not ever having one, I am fine with staying without one :)


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 29, 2017)

I've been searching all over the internet to find the price history of this smoker and can't seem to find anything recent. The lowest price I found was 299 early in 2017, so not too sure how "great" this 279 price is. I know it's solid, but has anyone ever seen it lower? I know I don't have a time machine to get it lower but it'd be good to get an idea of the price fluctuations and planning a potential trip to get one. Thanks


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## Bearcarver (Dec 29, 2017)

Thundamonkey said:


> I've been searching all over the internet to find the price history of this smoker and can't seem to find anything recent. The lowest price I found was 299 early in 2017, so not too sure how "great" this 279 price is. I know it's solid, but has anyone ever seen it lower? I know I don't have a time machine to get it lower but it'd be good to get an idea of the price fluctuations and planning a potential trip to get one. Thanks




I can't help much with the pricing without a Window, but normally the lowest prices I've seen for a Gen #2.5 MES 40 with window are between $279 and $329. I think the ones without windows are generally $50 or more less than with Window.

And as for the Window, you're probably right, like Gary, if you never had one, you might not miss it.
Back in 1967 I bought my first car with Air Conditioning, because I couldn't buy it without.
I didn't want it then, but I never wanted a car or truck without air again, once I had it in my '67 Dodge.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 29, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> I can't help much with the pricing without a Window, but normally the lowest prices I've seen for a Gen #2.5 MES 40 with window are between $279 and $329. I think the ones without windows are generally $50 or more less than with Window.
> 
> And as for the Window, you're probably right, like Gary, if you never had one, you might not miss it.
> Back in 1967 I bought my first car with Air Conditioning, because I couldn't buy it without.
> ...



Is the 279-299 pricing you refer to for the 6 rack mode or the 4 rack? I've also seen some models with room for 6 racks but only come with 4. I haven't seen a 6 rack (especially with 6 racks included) for this low, although I haven't been looking for a too long. 

I got a call from a friend who says their friend is willing to hit Cabela's for me this weekend, so fingers crossed he can fit it in his car. I have left him a message to confirm his vehicle and see what might work for him. Time will tell lol. Thanks for your help everyone


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## heubrewer (Dec 29, 2017)

So I have a MES 30 Gen 2 windowless that I got from Bass Pro Shops several years ago.  I use it around once a week.  

This is the one with the side smoke stack and the narrow deep water pan.  Reading the reviews of this smoker this is the “dud”’that MB sold.  

That said, I LOVE IT!!!!   So easy to use and produces great flavor.  I regularly smoke full packers on it, though I just cut them in half and smoke on two racks. I even smoked one a day ago when the overnight  temp was a 1F during my smoke and the MB did not fail.  Smoked temp set to 240F

I like the 30” and do not see the size as a limitation as I have smoked a full packer brisket and two pork shoulders all at the same time. See post below

https://smokingmeatforums.com/threa...30-or-carniverous-maximus-with-q-view.171045/

I also have the stand and added castors so I can roll it around instead of lifting it. 

I believe whatever you get you will not be disappointed. Would definitely get another MES again


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 29, 2017)

heubrewer said:


> So I have a MES 30 Gen 2 windowless that I got from Bass Pro Shops several years ago.  I use it around once a week.
> 
> This is the one with the side smoke stack and the narrow deep water pan.  Reading the reviews of this smoker this is the “dud”’that MB sold.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that, I am feeling pretty excited about getting my new rig. Nice looking product you've made there too!

I already have a little dolly I used for my bradley and will put the MES on that as well to help move it around. Should be awesome, just trying to tie up some loose ends on a friend picking it up for me. Cheers


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## Bearcarver (Dec 29, 2017)

Thundamonkey said:


> Is the 279-299 pricing you refer to for the 6 rack mode or the 4 rack? I've also seen some models with room for 6 racks but only come with 4. I haven't seen a 6 rack (especially with 6 racks included) for this low, although I haven't been looking for a too long.
> 
> I got a call from a friend who says their friend is willing to hit Cabela's for me this weekend, so fingers crossed he can fit it in his car. I have left him a message to confirm his vehicle and see what might work for him. Time will tell lol. Thanks for your help everyone




Make sure your friend knows which one is the Gen #2, so he doesn't pick that one up for you.
A few people like theirs, but no sense taking a chance on it when you know about it ahead of time.
The Gen #2.5 is by far the best.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 29, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> Make sure your friend knows which one is the Gen #2, so he doesn't pick that one up for you.
> A few people like theirs, but no sense taking a chance on it when you know about it ahead of time.
> The Gen #2.5 is by far the best.
> 
> Bear


Thanks for that. 

I've got it on hold for him to pick up. Regarding the model itself, there should be no way it's a gen 2. Looking at the online video and also knowing its a 6 rack bluetooth, it's a gen 2.5 for sure (right? lol).


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## Bearcarver (Dec 29, 2017)

Thundamonkey said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I've got it on hold for him to pick up. Regarding the model itself, there should be no way it's a gen 2. Looking at the online video and also knowing its a 6 rack bluetooth, it's a gen 2.5 for sure (right? lol).




The one you're showing in your Post #1 is a Gen #2.5, in the Cabelas Link & in the Masterbuilt Video.
If that's the one your getting, you'll be good to go!!

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 29, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> The one you're showing in your Post #1 is a Gen #2.5, in the Cabelas Link & in the Masterbuilt Video.
> If that's the one your getting, you'll be good to go!!
> 
> Bear


That's the one I put aside (based on the item number online). The price the cashier told me was the same as the online price (304.36 USD all in) so I should be good. Fingers crossed lol. 

Thank you


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## Bearcarver (Dec 29, 2017)

Thundamonkey said:


> That's the one I put aside (based on the item number online). The price the cashier told me was the same as the online price (304.36 USD all in) so I should be good. Fingers crossed lol.
> 
> Thank you




Once you get it, this may come in handy:
Just click on *"Bear's Step by Steps"*.

All are Step by Steps, and all smokes were done in MES units.

Bear


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## f14tomcat5 (Dec 29, 2017)

I just bought this exact smoker today, couldn't pass up the price. I can't wait to get it seasoned and try my hand at smoking.


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## heubrewer (Dec 29, 2017)

Agree with the Gen 2.5.  Hope that my post did not come off wrong.  Definitely get the Gen 2.5. With Bluetooth.  My point was that even the Gen 2 despite its flaws produces great smoked meats.  

I don’t even use an Amps or any mod.  Just load the chip tray up as much as it takes and let it rip.  After 4hrs I empty the tray in a old metal coffee can and  reload the tray


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## Rings Я Us (Dec 29, 2017)

Get the dam smoker and have fun!!!


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## Thundamonkey (Dec 29, 2017)

Thanks all, It is slated to be picked up tomorrow and then I will going over to Vancouver to get it in a few weeks when I go over for work. Sucks to wait a few weeks but don't feel like spending another 200 to get it early lol. Cheers all


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## Thundamonkey (Jan 18, 2018)

Well, I picked up the unit from my friend and will be putting it together/seasoning it this weekend (hopefully). Had a big hole in the box (a downside to when other people pick up items for you - they're potentially less picky) but it doesn't appear to be damaged. Fingers crossed :)


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## Thundamonkey (Jan 18, 2018)

EDIT: Double post, oops


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## Bearcarver (Jan 18, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Well, I picked up the unit from my friend and will be putting it together/seasoning it this weekend (hopefully). Had a big hole in the box (a downside to when other people pick up items for you - they're potentially less picky) but it doesn't appear to be damaged. Fingers crossed :)



Luck be with you.
I've gotten boxes shipped that had huge gouges in them, but most were fine inside. That's shows whether they were packed good or not.
Keep us posted.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Jan 19, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Luck be with you.
> I've gotten boxes shipped that had huge gouges in them, but most were fine inside. That's shows whether they were packed good or not.
> Keep us posted.
> 
> Bear


Unboxed it yesterday and assembled it. Not very pleased. Front (where the hole in the box was) was all scuffed. about 16x8 area with widespread markings. Given this if the front of the smoker, it isn't very nice to see but at least it isn't structural. 

Also, while putting the front feet/bases on, the R side had some issues. The bottom sheet metal was crooked and made it so the R foot wouldn't seat/thread. I had to get my tin snips out and take the top edge off and then rubber mallet it down smooth in order for the piece to line up. Since the bottom sheet metal is riveted in, I had no ability to adjust it, so I had to make it work. 

Due to this being a cross-border item, returning it isn't feasible, so I have to make it work. The size is great, and will do the seasoning run today, but not very impressed so far. Fingers crossed...


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## meatsweats86 (Jan 19, 2018)

Me last weekend - "I'm going to buy an electric smoker honey".
Wife -  "You already have 4 smokers, you don't need another".
Me - "Ok, this is for our son so he can learn to master the art of smoked meats.
Wife - "You're ridiculous.....You're son is only 1.5 years old and does not need to master meats "
Me-


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## Bearcarver (Jan 19, 2018)

meatsweats86 said:


> Me last weekend - "I'm going to buy an electric smoker honey".
> Wife -  "You already have 4 smokers, you don't need another".
> Me - "Ok, this is for our son so he can learn to master the art of smoked meats.
> Wife - "You're ridiculous.....You're son is only 1.5 years old and does not need to master meats "
> Me-




1.5 years old already!!!
You better get those classes going!!

Bear





Thundamonkey said:


> Unboxed it yesterday and assembled it. Not very pleased. Front (where the hole in the box was) was all scuffed. about 16x8 area with widespread markings. Given this if the front of the smoker, it isn't very nice to see but at least it isn't structural.
> 
> Also, while putting the front feet/bases on, the R side had some issues. The bottom sheet metal was crooked and made it so the R foot wouldn't seat/thread. I had to get my tin snips out and take the top edge off and then rubber mallet it down smooth in order for the piece to line up. Since the bottom sheet metal is riveted in, I had no ability to adjust it, so I had to make it work.
> 
> Due to this being a cross-border item, returning it isn't feasible, so I have to make it work. The size is great, and will do the seasoning run today, but not very impressed so far. Fingers crossed...




If anything needs replacing, I would take pics of the problem & call them. They might want to see the Pics & send you replacement parts. Have your Model Number & serial number ready.

Bear


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## meatsweats86 (Jan 19, 2018)

I picked mine up from Cabela's and everything was good. Only issue was someone jammed the racks in there without them going in the slides and they were slightly stuck and bent when I pulled them out. I just straightened them out. 

I made 10 lbs of beef sticks last weekend and it was 4° out and started snowing. The snow was starting to pile up on the top which tells me it's pretty well insulated. Hopefully that control board on top is sealed well so snow or rain can't seep in.

I put in my 5x8 AMNPS tray on the bottom rack to the right and pulled the wood chip loader out half way. The AMNPS would not stay lit for whatever reason. I microwaved the pellets for 3 minutes to dry them out and still didn't want to stay lit. I pulled the chip loader all the way out and it seemed to help it a little. I've got 2 aluminium mailboxes so I'll be doing the mailbox mod shortly

Over all no complaints yet. Even being that cold it held temps very well and the meat probe seems to be accurate. for $275 on Sale at Cabela's I would call it a good purchase. I could have bought a new 30" MES for $100, but to me the extra space was well worth the extra money.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 19, 2018)

meatsweats86 said:


> I picked mine up from Cabela's and everything was good. Only issue was someone jammed the racks in there without them going in the slides and they were slightly stuck and bent when I pulled them out. I just straightened them out.
> 
> I made 10 lbs of beef sticks last weekend and it was 4° out and started snowing. The snow was starting to pile up on the top which tells me it's pretty well insulated. Hopefully that control board on top is sealed well so snow or rain can't seep in.
> 
> ...





I never let mine out in rain or snow. Water & Electric never seem to like each other for me.

I used to have an electric drill I had to lay on a board, because if I laid it in the grass, it would kick the breaker, even if the grass was dry.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Jan 19, 2018)

So, I have issues. I just did the seasoning and the damn thing wouldn't turn off. I had it at 275 (as directed) and the first few hours it would cycle on and off (although it was in the 270-295 range the whole time). 

Nearing the end of my run, I check the app, the smoker, and also my dual wireless probes, and they were off the charts. The smoker and app stop at 310, but my probes were going higher and higher. At 350, 560, 380, even 403, it was still "heating" as both the indicator light and element were still on. It would have gone higher if I didn't shut it down. 

Lord only knows when/if it would have cut off. I tried calling Masterbuilt and they are closed for the day, so will have to try again later, but I am quite frustrated given the condition it arrived in and now the thing appears to be a fire waiting to happen.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 19, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> So, I have issues. I just did the seasoning and the damn thing wouldn't turn off. I had it at 275 (as directed) and the first few hours it would cycle on and off (although it was in the 270-295 range the whole time).
> 
> Nearing the end of my run, I check the app, the smoker, and also my dual wireless probes, and they were off the charts. The smoker and app stop at 310, but my probes were going higher and higher. At 350, 560, 380, even 403, it was still "heating" as both the indicator light and element were still on. It would have gone higher if I didn't shut it down.
> 
> Lord only knows when/if it would have cut off. I tried calling Masterbuilt and they are closed for the day, so will have to try again later, but I am quite frustrated given the condition it arrived in and now the thing appears to be a fire waiting to happen.






I would call them Monday, and considering the shape it got there in, and now it sounds like you have a bad controller, I would tell them you want the whole Smoker replaced. They should have you cut the cord, take a picture of the cut cord & the Plate on the back with the serial number. Send that to them & they send you another one.

At the very least you should get a new controller sent to you to replace. I hate seeing you have those problems, because I recommend MES units all the time. Ticks me off!!!

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Jan 19, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I would call them Monday, and considering the shape it got there in, and now it sounds like you have a bad controller, I would tell them you want the whole Smoker replaced. They should have you cut the cord, take a picture of the cut cord & the Plate on the back with the serial number. Send that to them & they send you another one.
> 
> At the very least you should get a new controller sent to you to replace. I hate seeing you have those problems, because I recommend MES units all the time. Ticks me off!!!
> 
> Bear


My worry is that I will have to send it back due to me being in Canada and the cost to ship it back is more than the cost of the smoker itself. I was very fearful of this kind of issue coming up due to the risk I took of bringing it over the border. Guess I will have to see what they say and go from there. Pretty shitty way to spend my birthday weekend as I had planned on breaking it in for the dinner tomorrow :(


EDIT: Thank you for the prompt response Bear


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## Bearcarver (Jan 19, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> My worry is that I will have to send it back due to me being in Canada and the cost to ship it back is more than the cost of the smoker itself. I was very fearful of this kind of issue coming up due to the risk I took of bringing it over the border. Guess I will have to see what they say and go from there. Pretty shitty way to spend my birthday weekend as I had planned on breaking it in for the dinner tomorrow :(
> 
> EDIT: Thank you for the prompt response Bear



I'm not sure, but I think that's why they have you cut the cord. I don't think they made the guys in the past send theirs back. They just cut the cord & showed them they did that. I think some of them turned the box into a cold smoker only unit.

Bear


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## Clay McDaniel (Jan 21, 2018)

I had the exact problem with high temps on my new Cabela’s MES 40 2 weeks ago.  They sent a new high temp cutoff and controller board. Seems to be ok now. MB customer service was a pleasure to deal with. I have little doubt that they will make you happy if you call.


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## Thundamonkey (Jan 24, 2018)

I called in and asked about the control module, but said they'll only send me a new high temp sensor first and see if that resolves it. The rep was nice to deal with, although did say that it was unlikely the element would still be on at 403 degrees, so my probe may be off. When I asked why it'd be on at 310 (like the smoker showed) she then offered the sensor. 

Fingers crossed that this solves it and I won't need to call back and get a control module sent too.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 1, 2018)

Update:

I received the high temp sensor yesterday and installed it, but had to wait until today to do a long test run. 3 hours in and it has held temp and hasn't tried to burn my house down.

MES thermometer set to 275, element goes off at 274 with overshoot to 288-290, and then goes back on again as it cascades down to 270.

Using my wireless probes, my temps have hit as high as 302 on the hot side (2 racks above the element) with a range of 284-302. Cool side, same height but other side, ranges from 269-276. 

Hard to avoid the temp spikes on the hot side, especially given the size of the element, but pretty pleased the sensor was the issue. I will do a lower temp run tomorrow and see how it fairs maintaining 225ish. 

Thanks all for your help and support, cheers


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## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Update:
> 
> I received the high temp sensor yesterday and installed it, but had to wait until today to do a long test run. 3 hours in and it has held temp and hasn't tried to burn my house down.
> 
> ...




That's Great, Thunda!!
Those numbers are a lot better!!
Set at 225° should give you even better results.
The normal thing when set at 275° is to shut off at 275°. Then overshoot some, then fall back down until coming back on at 274°.
The amount of overshoot depends on things like Ambient Temp, how long an upward run it just had, what you have in the Smoker, etc, etc.

Bear


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## zwiller (Feb 2, 2018)

I am still in awe of how well the MES does temps from my gasser but I am noticing the overshoot (delta?) as well.  Interesting others noticed this too and might be compensating.  Thermal mass (foiled paver) really helped my gasser stabilize, same for my pizza stone in the oven, so that is something I plan to try.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 2, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> That's Great, Thunda!!
> Those numbers are a lot better!!
> Set at 225° should give you even better results.
> The normal thing when set at 275° is to shut off at 275°. Then overshoot some, then fall back down until coming back on at 274°.
> ...



Thanks Bear, 

I will do my 225 run today and see how that fluctuates. I am looking forward to putting this in action. 



zwiller said:


> I am still in awe of how well the MES does temps from my gasser but I am noticing the overshoot (delta?) as well.  Interesting others noticed this too and might be compensating.  Thermal mass (foiled paver) really helped my gasser stabilize, same for my pizza stone in the oven, so that is something I plan to try.



Zwiller, I was using a firebrick in my bradley before, although I didn't really think to use it in this given the 1200W element in this machine compared to the 500 in the bradley (granted, this one is a fair bit larger). I wonder if there would be any benefit leaving one or two in the MES too. Hmmm


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## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Thanks Bear,
> 
> I will do my 225 run today and see how that fluctuates. I am looking forward to putting this in action.
> 
> ...




I can tell you I never got into any of that, because when you live in a cold climate, it takes too long to thaw out the frozen Bricks at the start of heating the smoker, and I wasn't going to take them inside between smokes just to keep them warm.
All that steel inside the MES holds plenty of heat too.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 2, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I can tell you I never got into any of that, because when you live in a cold climate, it takes too long to thaw out the frozen Bricks at the start of heating the smoker, and I wasn't going to take them inside between smokes just to keep them warm.
> All that steel inside the MES holds plenty of heat too.
> 
> Bear


True, 

Although, I don't live in very cold place, and it all lives in my garage (which is warmer than ambient) so do you think it would help or more of a nuisance? Given the fact the smoker/bricks will never get below 35-40 degrees (at the very lowest) there wouldn't be as much "work" to get them heated.


----------



## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> True,
> 
> Although, I don't live in very cold place, and it all lives in my garage (which is warmer than ambient) so do you think it would help or more of a nuisance? Given the fact the smoker/bricks will never get below 35-40 degrees (at the very lowest) there wouldn't be as much "work" to get them heated.




Well, you would have a better reason than I, but I'm a "KISS" kind of a Bear, and to me this is just an extra PITA, kinda like a Mailbox Mod for an MES, when my AMNPS burns fine in my Smoker.

I guess it should depend how often you open your door. For me it's when I put the meat in & when I take it out.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 2, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Well, you would have a better reason than I, but I'm a "KISS" kind of a Bear, and to me this is just an extra PITA, kinda like a Mailbox Mod for an MES, when my AMNPS burns fine in my Smoker.
> 
> I guess it should depend how often you open your door. For me it's when I put the meat in & when I take it out.
> 
> Bear


Good point Bear, 

I only usually open it once during the cook (at least with the bradley) to rotate the food. I don't know if I'll do that with the MES as I haven't cooked in it yet, so I suppose it's less relevant if the "recovery phase" is shortened if I don't actually need it. I look forward to a number of trials on this and see how it works out. Cheers


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## zwiller (Feb 2, 2018)

Thanks Bear.  I trust your insight here.  KISS here too and if ain't broken...  How do you know if the MES is cycling too often?  I take a peak now and then and don't see it running constantly.  Seems fine to me.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Good point Bear,
> 
> I only usually open it once during the cook (at least with the bradley) to rotate the food. I don't know if I'll do that with the MES as I haven't cooked in it yet, so I suppose it's less relevant if the "recovery phase" is shortened if I don't actually need it. I look forward to a number of trials on this and see how it works out. Cheers




I usually only use the top racks, and the top 2 on a 4 rack unit, and the top 3 on a 6 rack unit are close enough in heat to not need any rotating. You'll feel better about it once you have a few MES smokes under your belt. They're Great Smokers.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

zwiller said:


> Thanks Bear.  I trust your insight here.  KISS here too and if ain't broken...  How do you know if the MES is cycling too often?  I take a peak now and then and don't see it running constantly.  Seems fine to me.




It will cycle when it needs to, and as long as you don't have a problem, it won't be recycling too often.

I keep my Maverick on the coffee table near my recliner & glance over there now & then, and once every half hour or so I walk out & check things like Smoke Density & make sure nothing bad is going on.

Only problems I ever ran into were strange ones, like the Sun hitting the MES sensor & confusing the Temp control, or the time I had two 9 X 11 pans on one rack & blocked the heat flow. 
If you don't check the Maverick now & then, you'd never know about those things until too late.

Bear


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## zwiller (Feb 2, 2018)

I have been enjoying "ignorance is bliss".  Time to throw the Maverick cue probe in there on next run and see what's going on.  

Only running 2 racks with my 4 rack too.  That pretty much cinches it...  I will move waterpan NKA drip tray to the 3rd and keep AMNPS on the far left of the 4th.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

zwiller said:


> I have been enjoying "ignorance is bliss".  Time to throw the Maverick cue probe in there on next run and see what's going on.
> 
> Only running 2 racks with my 4 rack too.  That pretty much cinches it...  I will move waterpan NKA drip tray to the 3rd and keep AMNPS on the far left of the 4th.




If the AMNPS works good for you there, do it, but if you have a problem with it going out, I found the right side of the bottom rack works better because it's just above the chip dumper hole. Then I can pull the dumper out a few inches if it needs more air or push it in if it needs less air.

And Keep your Maverick smoker probe about 3" from the main meat. That's close enough to measure the temp in the area of the meat, yet far enough away from the meat to keep the cold meat from screwing up your Temp readings.

Bear


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## meatsweats86 (Feb 2, 2018)

I did ribs on mine this past weekend in 15° temps. I had it at 250° and it held temps very well. Had my maverick inside and didn't see much in fluctuations. I did notice a 15° difference from 2nd from top to 3rd from top rack. Might of been because the bottom prob was near the meat. 

 Used the mailbox mod Bear recommended. Used Aluminum mailbox with a aluminum vent elbow. Cut hole in the mail box and cut some tabs on the vent tube. Used 3 SS screws to attach it to the mailbox and sealed it with high temp food grade sealant. Raised my 5x8 AMNPS with 2" screws and cut 3 holes in the mail box door. 

I remove the chip loader and snugged the vent tube in the side hole. In order for the tube to go all the way inside, you would need to remove the 3 screws and the whole chip tray. I didn't want to do that so I just snugged it in as far as it would go and it didn't leak at all. AMNPS stayed lit perfectly this way compared to when I had it inside on the bottom


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## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

meatsweats86 said:


> I did ribs on mine this past weekend in 15° temps. I had it at 250° and it held temps very well. Had my maverick inside and didn't see much in fluctuations. I did notice a 15° difference from 2nd from top to 3rd from top rack. Might of been because the bottom prob was near the meat.
> 
> Used the mailbox mod Bear recommended. Used Aluminum mailbox with a aluminum vent elbow. Cut hole in the mail box and cut some tabs on the vent tube. Used 3 SS screws to attach it to the mailbox and sealed it with high temp food grade sealant. Raised my 5x8 AMNPS with 2" screws and cut 3 holes in the mail box door.
> 
> I remove the chip loader and snugged the vent tube in the side hole. In order for the tube to go all the way inside, you would need to remove the 3 screws and the whole chip tray. I didn't want to do that so I just snugged it in as far as it would go and it didn't leak at all. AMNPS stayed lit perfectly this way compared to when I had it inside on the bottom




Sounds like you're in good shape & ready to go!! (I'd put a "Thumbs Up" Right here, but we don't have any).

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 2, 2018)

Very nice MeatSweats.

I have done 2 temp runs, one at 225 and the other at 200, and I am still swinging up to 45 degrees over at the top of the upswing. The bottom of the upswing is still 15-20 above goal temp, so it never really gets down to set temp (even-though the MES says it does). Even my 200 temp only got down to 216 at the lowest. 

Is this something I contact Masterbuilt for as see if it's a component issue (? low sensor as the control module is still clicking on/off at the right times and I just replaced the high temp shut off sensor) or so I just adjust knowing this range for future food runs?


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## dr k (Feb 2, 2018)

Is it the first few cycles then everything smoothes out?  If you preheat to 180*, will it coast to 225*, then set the smoker to 225* to eliminate the first big over shoot?  Or preheat 45* lower than your cooking temp then reset smoker to that temp when it coast up to it.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 2, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Very nice MeatSweats.
> 
> I have done 2 temp runs, one at 225 and the other at 200, and I am still swinging up to 45 degrees over at the top of the upswing. The bottom of the upswing is still 15-20 above goal temp, so it never really gets down to set temp (even-though the MES says it does). Even my 200 temp only got down to 216 at the lowest.
> 
> Is this something I contact Masterbuilt for as see if it's a component issue (? low sensor as the control module is still clicking on/off at the right times and I just replaced the high temp shut off sensor) or so I just adjust knowing this range for future food runs?




Question:  Are these 45° overshoots over the top of the setting happening after the Heating element shuts off, and I'm talking about the MES read-out.
It should shut off when it gets up to your setting, and it should restart when it gets down to a degree below your setting. Anything that happens while the element is off has nothing to do with your MES, and can be remedied.

Here's how:
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/208552/avoid-temp-swings-in-mes-by-bear

Bear


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## THW (Feb 3, 2018)

Something I found useful when testing my MES 30" was of course to monitor the highs and lows but also and just as important as far as letting you know what is going on is to document when the heating element (red light) goes on and off.  Then you know what is heat and what is coast.

I found on mine that the first heating cycle after the unit was turned on and after the door had been open was the most extreme.  So, I would close the door and then let it go through two cycles before I checked the temperature swing.  The highs and lows that just last a minute or two after the door has been open is a very small percentage of time when doing a 5 hour or more smoke.  Now the title under my name should be NEW Newbie but that is the way I view the swings.


----------



## Thundamonkey (Feb 3, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Question:  Are these 45° overshoots over the top of the setting happening after the Heating element shuts off, and I'm talking about the MES read-out.
> It should shut off when it gets up to your setting, and it should restart when it gets down to a degree below your setting. Anything that happens while the element is off has nothing to do with you MES, and can be remedied.
> 
> Here's how:
> ...


 
I will review your post linked Bear, thank you. 

As for your question about the swings, that is from my wireless probes, so what I'd like to this are accurate ambient temps. The machine itself is shutting on and off properly (as per it's own temp readings). I had it set for 225 and it turned off at 225-227 and the temp on the machine would only indicate a 10-15 degree swing (so 235-240) but on my probes I was getting as high as 270 during a 225 run. 

I get the impression that the temp sensor, while better, might still be off given there is such a variance between my calibrated probes and the machines readouts.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 3, 2018)

THW said:


> Something I found useful when testing my MES 30" was of course to monitor the highs and lows but also and just as important as far as letting you know what is going on is to document when the heating element (red light) goes on and off.  Then you know what is heat and what is coast.
> 
> I found on mine that the first heating cycle after the unit was turned on and after the door had been open was the most extreme.  So, I would close the door and then let it go through two cycles before I checked the temperature swing.  The highs and lows that just last a minute or two after the door has been open is a very small percentage of time when doing a 5 hour or more smoke.  Now the title under my name should be NEW Newbie but that is the way I view the swings.


I hear you on the initial swing being the most extreme, and I considered that while reviewing my numbers. I ran it for 3+ hours and the swings only slightly tightened up over that time. The swings were usually 25-30ish over in the final few hours.


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## THW (Feb 3, 2018)

One thing I have learned that was a surprise to me was the amount of temperature swing in cooking appliances.  I tested my kitchen and found it had right about a 40* swing.  And I did a lot of reading and found that that amount of swing was somewhat typical.  A big difference with it was I could adjust the setting so the the swing was as equal above the set temp as it was below.  So 20* over and 20* under, providing a temp closer to what a recipe called for.  With the MES units, there is not a compensating adjustment so you just need to change your set temperature to put your desired temperature in the middle of the swing.

Good luck


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 3, 2018)

If they are seeing a 40 degree swing, for stuff like sausage where you want to avoid a fat out,  would you then set the MES at 140 so the max it got was 180?

I'm curios as I a  considering buying one of the 40s and want to know what I'm getting myself into.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 3, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> I will review your post linked Bear, thank you.
> 
> As for your question about the swings, that is from my wireless probes, so what I'd like to this are accurate ambient temps. The machine itself is shutting on and off properly (as per it's own temp readings). I had it set for 225 and it turned off at 225-227 and the temp on the machine would only indicate a 10-15 degree swing (so 235-240) but on my probes I was getting as high as 270 during a 225 run.
> 
> I get the impression that the temp sensor, while better, might still be off given there is such a variance between my calibrated probes and the machines readouts.




Usually that difference between the MES read-out & a Maverick Reading is the Maverick is more sensitive & isn't connected to a big steel smoker back panel. And the Maverick sensor is usually at a different place, because we don't put the food in the back of the 3rd rack near the MES sensor.

The important thing is to set the MES heat at a point that will make the Maverick (Near your meat) read what you want your meat in.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 3, 2018)

THW said:


> One thing I have learned that was a surprise to me was the amount of temperature swing in cooking appliances.  I tested my kitchen and found it had right about a 40* swing.  And I did a lot of reading and found that that amount of swing was somewhat typical.  A big difference with it was I could adjust the setting so the the swing was as equal above the set temp as it was below.  So 20* over and 20* under, providing a temp closer to what a recipe called for.  With the MES units, there is not a compensating adjustment so you just need to change your set temperature to put your desired temperature in the middle of the swing.
> 
> Good luck




Exactly!!

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 3, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> If they are seeing a 40 degree swing, for stuff like sausage where you want to avoid a fat out,  would you then set the MES at 140 so the max it got was 180?
> 
> I'm curios as I a  considering buying one of the 40s and want to know what I'm getting myself into.




A 40° swing is a little out of what an MES should be.
Their warranty I believe calls for no more than 15° either direction.
So that makes a 30° swing at worst.
So you would set your temp to swing from 15° below to 15° above what temp you want it to be in.

When my MES is empty, it swings from 2° under to 2° over.
When I put cold meat in there the swing gets wider, but never more than 15° above or below.

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 5, 2018)

okay,  but if you only want a high of 175 say to avoid losing your fat,  wouldnt you then set your smoker at 160 to account for that 15 degree swing?  thus it never gets to hot and turns your fat to liquid?  if you set it at your target temp and it went 15 over you would spend part of your cook at 190 and part at 160,  as opposed to setting at 160 and bouncing from 145 to the target of 175.  ( is my question making sense?)  



bearcarver said:


> A 40° swing is a little out of what an MES should be.
> Their warranty I believe calls for no more than 15° either direction.
> So that makes a 30° swing at worst.
> So you would set your temp to swing from 15° below to 15° above what temp you want it to be in.
> ...


will the bouncing over that target of 175 and then coming back down still have the issue of liquefying the fat,  or does the average balance out and not seem to be a problem?


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## Bearcarver (Feb 5, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> okay,  but if you only want a high of 175 say to avoid losing your fat,  wouldnt you then set your smoker at 160 to account for that 15 degree swing?  thus it never gets to hot and turns your fat to liquid?  if you set it at your target temp and it went 15 over you would spend part of your cook at 190 and part at 160,  as opposed to setting at 160 and bouncing from 145 to the target of 175.  ( is my question making sense?)
> 
> 
> will the bouncing over that target of 175 and then coming back down still have the issue of liquefying the fat,  or does the average balance out and not seem to be a problem?




I understand your question, and you need the 15° over and the 15° under to maintain an average of 160°. It shouldn't fat out during the Short time it will be at the peak of the 30° cycle, just like it won't hurt it to be at the 145° valley for a short time during each cycle.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 6, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> A 40° swing is a little out of what an MES should be.
> Their warranty I believe calls for no more than 15° either direction.
> So that makes a 30° swing at worst.
> So you would set your temp to swing from 15° below to 15° above what temp you want it to be in.
> ...



you only get a 2 degree swing when it is empty? All my mentioned temps were empty. I haven't bothered trying to cook anything yet until I have it somewhat dialled in. I am still hopeful this will get sorted, but it is a little frustrating given how spot-on my bradley was out of the box.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> you only get a 2 degree swing when it is empty? All my mentioned temps were empty. I haven't bothered trying to cook anything yet until I have it somewhat dialled in. I am still hopeful this will get sorted, but it is a little frustrating given how spot-on my bradley was out of the box.




I haven't done a big time check on it lately, but I know that's what it was when it was new & I did the Full Check on it & reported it to Masterbuilt. I was amazed---Held a 2° up & 2° down swing for hours.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 6, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I haven't done a big time check on it lately, but I know that's what it was when it was new & I did the Full Check on it & reported it to Masterbuilt. I was amazed---Held a 2° up & 2° down swing for hours.
> 
> Bear


Man, makes my 40-45 swing seem insane lol


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Man, makes my 40-45 swing seem insane lol




*Here's the actual Report I sent to Masterbuilt:*
After putting a Maverick Smoker Probe on both the Left & Right sides at the same time, I set the Temp to 215°, because I wanted an average of 230° on rack #3. In a very short time the heat stabilized, so that the MES Readout cycled from a low of 213° to a high of 217°. These temps come from the MES heat sensor, which is in the center of the back wall of the smoker. At this same time, the heat on the Left Side was cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. And as hard as it is to believe, the right side was also cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. After watching & recording it for hours at different Temps, I watched this cycling for about 20 minutes. Then tiring from the hours of watching & recording, I took an hour break, and went in the house to my recliner. Then after that hour, I went back out to see what it was doing, and it was still cycling with those exact same temperatures. I had seen enough to make this report, and this is the report I gave to Masterbuilt.
I couldn’t believe how this Smoker cycled from 228° to 232° for hours, making that average the 230° I wanted, and both sides were the same Temp without using a makeshift heat deflector to balance it out. IMHO, A heat cycle range of 4° is Amazing!!!


Bear


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## zwiller (Feb 6, 2018)

I'm all for accuracy but a 10% swing (200F temp 40deg swing=20/20) doesn't seem that bad at all.  That's still way better than what I could pull off on my gasser.


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 6, 2018)

in regards to the Gen 2.5 temp swings.  I have read numerous accounts of crazy temp swings and run aways, but I am starting to think that has to do with the blue tooth feature as some say like Bear that they havent experienced the issue, but they arent using the blue tooth either.    I would like to see the G2.5 with an RF remote as that sounds like it would be the best of both worlds as RF is better range and is proven technology that wont be screwed up with software/operating system updates and stuff like that in the future.   My phone doesnt have to do everything for me.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> in regards to the Gen 2.5 temp swings.  I have read numerous accounts of crazy temp swings and run aways, but I am starting to think that has to do with the blue tooth feature as some say like Bear that they havent experienced the issue, but they arent using the blue tooth either.    I would like to see the G2.5 with an RF remote as that sounds like it would be the best of both worlds as RF is better range and is proven technology that wont be screwed up with software/operating system updates and stuff like that in the future.   My phone doesnt have to do everything for me.




Exactly!!
And that was the one thing that I suggested to Masterbuilt that they didn't listen to, when I did my test & report for them.
For some reason they kept the Bluetooth in it---Maybe cheaper for them??? I don't know.

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 6, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Exactly!!
> And that was the one thing that I suggested to Masterbuilt that they didn't listen to, when I did my test & report for them.
> For some reason they kept the Bluetooth in it---Maybe cheaper for them??? I don't know.
> 
> Bear



With all these different models and gens and variations out there,  have you seen a 2.5 (for the heat distribution improvements) paired with an RF remote offered anywhere?   Seems that Masterbuilt has no issues with doing different versions of their cookers for different distributors.  I know Cabelas has the blue tooth,  but in a unit with no window in the door.  I havent seen the inside or the top to know how much more of the 2.5 features it is offering.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> With all these different models and gens and variations out there,  have you seen a 2.5 (for the heat distribution improvements) paired with an RF remote offered anywhere?   Seems that Masterbuilt has no issues with doing different versions of their cookers for different distributors.  I know Cabelas has the blue tooth,  but in a unit with no window in the door.  I havent seen the inside or the top to know how much more of the 2.5 features it is offering.




Right, They intermingle different parts of different Generations too---I call them Hybrids.

A While back there was a couple guys who had problems with their Bluetooths, and Masterbuilt sent them what was needed to convert their smokers to RF. That would be ideal IMO.
I would imagine you could buy that changeover, but I just use the console.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 6, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> *Here's the actual Report I sent to Masterbuilt:*
> After putting a Maverick Smoker Probe on both the Left & Right sides at the same time, I set the Temp to 215°, because I wanted an average of 230° on rack #3. In a very short time the heat stabilized, so that the MES Readout cycled from a low of 213° to a high of 217°. These temps come from the MES heat sensor, which is in the center of the back wall of the smoker. At this same time, the heat on the Left Side was cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. And as hard as it is to believe, the right side was also cycling from a low of 228° to a high of 232°. After watching & recording it for hours at different Temps, I watched this cycling for about 20 minutes. Then tiring from the hours of watching & recording, I took an hour break, and went in the house to my recliner. Then after that hour, I went back out to see what it was doing, and it was still cycling with those exact same temperatures. I had seen enough to make this report, and this is the report I gave to Masterbuilt.
> I couldn’t believe how this Smoker cycled from 228° to 232° for hours, making that average the 230° I wanted, and both sides were the same Temp without using a makeshift heat deflector to balance it out. IMHO, A heat cycle range of 4° is Amazing!!!
> 
> ...


That is very impressive. I will have to sit down and get some concrete numbers later today when I get home and find out exactly where my numbers will be. I was running on rack 5, then 4, then 3, and the range was only slightly improved with each higher rack. I'll make a spreadsheet of probe temps and MES temp with a split and report back. I am pretty sure it won't be remotely as good as yours though Bear lol


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 6, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> With all these different models and gens and variations out there,  have you seen a 2.5 (for the heat distribution improvements) paired with an RF remote offered anywhere?   Seems that Masterbuilt has no issues with doing different versions of their cookers for different distributors.  I know Cabelas has the blue tooth,  but in a unit with no window in the door.  I havent seen the inside or the top to know how much more of the 2.5 features it is offering.


I have that model and it comes with 6 racks, an integrated wired temp probe, a sausage hook, and a cover. Having it come with the 2 extra racks is great and saved me a few bucks. I would have liked the RF remote given how far it's range it compared to the bluetooth (which I don't use as a result), but it isn't a deal breaker. I don't know of any internal differences beyond the other gen 2.5s out there.


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## THW (Feb 6, 2018)

I was in Lowe's two day ago and that was the first time I saw the 40" MES other than just a picture.  I also saw the 30" and the 40" side by side for the first time.  Wow, I could not imagine how different they were in size.  I knew the 40"would be some bigger but in appearance, it seemed to to almost twice as big.

Now, I am a little lost as to how the units with bluetooth could have an effect on the temperature swing in the smoker.  It is not what turns the smoker element on and off but rather just send a signal to the smoker just like the RF remote sends a signal.  If you don't use the bluetooth or RF remote but just use the control panel they still do the same thing.  

It is easy to figure out why Masterbuilt went with the Bluetooth and not the remote.  Money.  They get the same money for the smoker but have no cost for manufacturing the remote.  There is the program that is used with "your" personal cell phone but programs cost a drip in the bucket compared to the remote.  I will say, I loved the information the program provided and since my pavilion is close to the house I was able to monitor the unit from inside the house.  I could not go all over the house but did not have to go outside to see what it was doing.

Now, please don't get the idea that I am complaining or bashing Masterbuilt because I am not.  My first smoke (ribs) did not go so well in my 30" but that was more my fault than a problem with the unit.  I have learned a lot from that first attempt and some more reading on here so am looking forward to my next attempt.

One thing I learned was not to set the time for the exact time I thought the smoke would take.  When the time ends, the smoker shuts down and if you not staying right on top of it, you lose your heat quickly.  From here on out I will set the time for an hour or two longer than I need.

I WILL get better, I promise. o_O


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## Bearcarver (Feb 6, 2018)

THW said:


> I was in Lowe's two day ago and that was the first time I saw the 40" MES other than just a picture.  I also saw the 30" and the 40" side by side for the first time.  Wow, I could not imagine how different they were in size.  I knew the 40"would be some bigger but in appearance, it seemed to to almost twice as big.
> 
> Now, I am a little lost as to how the units with bluetooth could have an effect on the temperature swing in the smoker.  It is not what turns the smoker element on and off but rather just send a signal to the smoker just like the RF remote sends a signal.  If you don't use the bluetooth or RF remote but just use the control panel they still do the same thing.
> 
> ...




The first thing I do when I start mine up is set it for 20 hours.
I do that every time, so it's easy to tell how long things take.
That way it won't shut off unexpectedly too.
I figured that was why they went Bluetooth, but that's not my thing.
Have you seen this---Could be a Big help to you:
Just click on *"Bear's Step by Steps"*.

Bear


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## THW (Feb 6, 2018)

Yes, I have reviewed your "step by step" instructions quite a lot and thanks for taking the time to add them on the forum for everyone to use.  It has been some interesting reading and will be a go to thread in the future.

From here on out, I will set my time to 10 or 20 depending on what I am smoking.  And I got the Thermoworks Smoke and it worked well at telling me the temperature in the cabinet as well as the IT.  I was only about 70 feet away but my house has fieldstone walls so they are very thick but had no effect on the signal.  

Looking forward to this summer.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 7, 2018)

THW said:


> Yes, I have reviewed your "step by step" instructions quite a lot and thanks for taking the time to add them on the forum for everyone to use.  It has been some interesting reading and will be a go to thread in the future.
> 
> From here on out, I will set my time to 10 or 20 depending on what I am smoking.  And I got the Thermoworks Smoke and it worked well at telling me the temperature in the cabinet as well as the IT.  I was only about 70 feet away but my house has fieldstone walls so they are very thick but had no effect on the signal.
> 
> Looking forward to this summer.




LOL---I know what you mean, The only place my Maverick seems to have trouble with the signal is my Steel Front Door.
Shame it has to be dead center in the line between my Recliner & my Smoker. :(

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 7, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> LOL---I know what you mean, The only place my Maverick seems to have trouble with the signal is my Steel Front Door.
> Shame it has to be dead center in the line between my Recliner & my Smoker. :(
> 
> Bear



thats why I am fairly certain that the weaker blue tooth connection is likely a waste of money for me,  Steel roof, steel siding,  I barely get a cell signal in my house,  I have serious doubts that the blue tooth stands a chance.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 7, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> thats why I am fairly certain that the weaker blue tooth connection is likely a waste of money for me,  Steel roof, steel siding,  I barely get a cell signal in my house,  I have serious doubts that the blue tooth stands a chance.




Yup!
But that Gen #2.5 is so awesome, I just use the console controls. Gotta check the smoke now & then anyway.
Probably get an RF remote set-up for $50 or so, but then again with all that steel, maybe RF wouldn't work too good either.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 7, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Yup!
> But that Gen #2.5 is so awesome, I just use the console controls. Gotta check the smoke now & then anyway.
> Probably get an RF remote set-up for $50 or so, but then again with all that steel, maybe RF wouldn't work too good either.
> 
> Bear


Checking the smoker is an opportune time to get another beer :)


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## Bearcarver (Feb 7, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Checking the smoker is an opportune time to get another beer :)




Great Point !!

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 7, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Checking the smoker is an opportune time to get another beer :)



If that is how you justify getting a beer.... perhaps you should buy a cheap brinkman offest... you dont turn your back on one of those for a minute.   I used to get pretty plowed trying to do a brisket or pork butt on mine... my liver is a proud sponsor of the UDS smoker.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 11, 2018)

I got around to doing 2 sets of temp runs to get an idea of where my MES actually runs. I did a 225 and a 205 (on the MES) with it empty. I was running a thermopro dual probe setup for reference. Below recorded runs after it had done 3-4 full cycles and “levelled off” internally.


*225 Run, starting on the bottom of its upswing:*

1832: Element on at 224 while MES dropped to 219. Probes showed 231/229 (R/L respectively. R/L will be consistent throughout below tests).

1834: MES off at 225, probes 255/255

1838: MES coasts to 236, probes 269/266

1845: MES element turns on at 224, probes 236/235

1847: MES dropped to 219, probes 232/231


*205 Run, starting on the bottom of its upswing:*

1947: MES element on at 204, probes 212/212

1949: MES drops to 201, probes 210/209

1951: MES element off at 205, probes 228/228

1955: MES coasts to 216, probes 243/243

2004: MES element on at 204, probes 213/212

2005: MES drops to 201, probes 210/210


What are your thoughts?


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 12, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Great Point !!
> 
> Bear


Speaking of beers, I did consume one or two while compiling the above readings. It was for science after all!


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## dr k (Feb 12, 2018)

I wish I could actually get to 275* when the Mes is set to 275*.  I only get to 255-260* average.  Both Gen 1 40's I have were identical.  It's not the Mes controllers so the PID will get me where I want to be.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 12, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> I got around to doing 2 sets of temp runs to get an idea of where my MES actually runs. I did a 225 and a 205 (on the MES) with it empty. I was running a thermopro dual probe setup for reference. Below recorded runs after it had done 3-4 full cycles and “levelled off” internally.
> 
> 
> *225 Run, starting on the bottom of its upswing:*
> ...





My Observations are:
Your Heating element starts & stops at proper points.
Your left/right heat balance looks real good.
Your Swings get less with each cycle.

It's not really necessary with your numbers, but if you want to shrink the swings more quickly, check my method out:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/avoid-temp-swings-in-mes-by-bear.208552/

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 12, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> My Observations are:
> Your Heating element starts & stops at proper points.
> Your left/right heat balance looks real good.
> Your Swings get less with each cycle.
> ...



Thanks Bear, 

I've read that post and will use it when cooking, but wanted to get a general idea how the mes performed on its own with the new sensor. Seems like the sensor did the trick and 205 is going to be my primary setting.

Appreciate the feedback all, cheers


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## zwiller (Feb 12, 2018)

Temp swings look a little wild "on paper" but doubt there's much difference in the real world/final results.  Stop OCDing and smoke something already!  :D  Not hitting the set temp is another matter.  Bad sensor?  My MES30 goes over 300F set at 275F.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 12, 2018)

zwiller said:


> Temp swings look a little wild "on paper" but doubt there's much difference in the real world/final results.  Stop OCDing and smoke something already!  :D  Not hitting the set temp is another matter.  Bad sensor?  My MES30 goes over 300F set at 275F.



Well what got me here was my mes being set to 275 and then not turning off, even when it was at 403 and counting. My swings now go as high as 44 over projected (269 when set to 225) but the swings are much more modest at the 205 temp


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## Bearcarver (Feb 12, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Well what got me here was my mes being set to 275 and then not turning off, even when it was at 403 and counting. My swings now go as high as 44 over projected (269 when set to 225) but the swings are much more modest at the 205 temp




Those swings at 225° would probably die down in a longer smoke, like it did at 1845 & 1847.

That one you had set @ 275° and went to 403°+ is a whole different story. That's not good when it doesn't shut off.

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 12, 2018)

Pulled the trigger on the cabelas mes40.  I had over $700 in cabelas points and a $10 in cabelas bucks so I figured what the hell...It's like free this way!  I cant wait until to give it a try on some snack sticks.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 13, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Those swings at 225° would probably die down in a longer smoke, like it did at 1845 & 1847.
> 
> That one you had set @ 275° and went to 403°+ is a whole different story. That's not good when it doesn't shut off.
> 
> Bear



Those times you mention were on the downswing, 232/231 is the lowest it got during an hour+ long 225 run. So on its way down, it turns on at 224 (while still dropping) and bottoms out at 232/231 (MES 219) before its upswing begins. Total heat swing is 37/35 degrees on the 225 run. 33/33 degrees on the 205 run. 

1838: MES coasts to 236, probes 269/266

1845: MES element turns on at 224, probes 236/235

1847: MES dropped to 219, probes 232/231

I will be using it regardless, but interesting how it cycles. Likely be a bit smoother when a chunk of thermal mass (food) is there mind you.


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 13, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Those times you mention were on the downswing, 232/231 is the lowest it got during an hour+ long 225 run. So on its way down, it turns on at 224 (while still dropping) and bottoms out at 232/231 (MES 219) before its upswing begins. Total heat swing is 37/35 degrees on the 225 run. 33/33 degrees on the 205 run.
> 
> 1838: MES coasts to 236, probes 269/266
> 
> ...



That's my thoughts ,  without a load on the unit ts kind of hard to say how it will react with a load on it.   I was thinking that a foil pan with about a gallon of water would be a good comparison  if  different people wanted to get an idea on how their units would run. Also you have to factor drafting conditions as some guys may be getting a better draft and that can make the unit drop faster or heat slower at different intervals and confuse the logic in the controller.  no?


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## dr k (Feb 13, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> That's my thoughts ,  without a load on the unit ts kind of hard to say how it will react with a load on it.   I was thinking that a foil pan with about a gallon of water would be a good comparison  if  different people wanted to get an idea on how their units would run. Also you have to factor drafting conditions as some guys may be getting a better draft and that can make the unit drop faster or heat slower at different intervals and confuse the logic in the controller.  no?


Yup.  Especially at the beginning of the smoke with a cold chunk of meat and the proximity of it to the Mes sensor.  The meat being above, next to or below the sensor.  Until MB (all electric vertical smoker manufacturers) tethers the mes sensor like their meat probe sensor so it can go next to food on any rack, they are indirectly promoting sales of digital therms to the end user to get a more true temp.  I'm not sure if it's all cost driven to fix the mes sensor because their meat probe is tethered.  I'm looking forward to threading the six foot long sensor on my PID controller down the exhaust vent to the level my food is located.


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 13, 2018)

dr k said:


> Yup.  Especially at the beginning of the smoke with a cold chunk of meat and the proximity of it to the Mes sensor.  The meat being above, next to or below the sensor.  Until MB (all electric vertical smoker manufacturers) tethers the mes sensor like their meat probe sensor so it can go next to food on any rack, they are indirectly promoting sales of digital therms to the end user to get a more true temp.  I'm not sure if it's all cost driven to fix the mes sensor because their meat probe is tethered.  I'm looking forward to threading the six foot long sensor on my PID controller down the exhaust vent to the level my food is located.



totally agree,  and why not make those sensors easily replaceable?  have a port that they plug into in the unit or a some other easy way to remove them for cleaning or easy change out if they happen to fail?   I usually have a maverick sensor fail about once every 20-30 uses for one reason or the other,  it would suck if they werent able to be easily replaced.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 13, 2018)

All good comments.
Bringing to mind that I tell people to put their Maverick Sensor (or other wireless) about 3" from the Meat.
This being close enough to tell you the Temp of that specific area of the smoker that the meat is in, yet far enough away from the cold meat to not cause a false Air Temp reading.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 13, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> All good comments.
> Bringing to mind that I tell people to put their Maverick Sensor (or other wireless) about 3" from the Meat.
> This being close enough to tell you the Temp of that specific area of the smoker that the meat is in, yet far enough away from the cold meat to not cause a false Air Temp reading.
> 
> Bear



Good call, the 3-inch gap is quite important to get a more accurate reading. I love the method I saw where someone cut a potato in half and stuck the sensor through it and then sat the potato on the rack. Make positioning the sensor super easy


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## Bearcarver (Feb 13, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Good call, the 3-inch gap is quite important to get a more accurate reading. I love the method I saw where someone cut a potato in half and stuck the sensor through it and then sat the potato on the rack. Make positioning the sensor super easy




I just hang mine through the top vent hole, put the probe in position so the tip of the sensor is 3" below the Rack, and clip the cable with a wooden spring clothes pin, right at the Vent. Then I eat the Taters.:D

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 15, 2018)

Doing some cheese today since it's cold out and plan to do an actual cook on real food this weekend :)

As an aside, anyone ever use these for smoking? I know we are to avoid heating pellets due to potential softwoods and fillers, but these are stated to be pure hardwood and also safe for cooking with. I have written the company to confirm, as they are selling for 6 bucks per 40 pounds compared to my 45 per bag (which is still cheap for smoke/hour mind you). Cheers

http://canawick.com/en/produits.php?cat=Pellets&c=10


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## tjohnson (Feb 15, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Doing some cheese today since it's cold out and plan to do an actual cook on real food this weekend :)
> 
> As an aside, anyone ever use these for smoking? I know we are to avoid heating pellets due to potential softwoods and fillers, but these are stated to be pure hardwood and also safe for cooking with. I have written the company to confirm, as they are selling for 6 bucks per 40 pounds compared to my 45 per bag (which is still cheap for smoke/hour mind you). Cheers
> 
> http://canawick.com/en/produits.php?cat=Pellets&c=10




Heating Pellets are Heating Pellets.  The sawmill the sawdust comes from most likely does not separate sawdust from different species.  Your pellets may contain any species of wood that goes thru their sawmill.  If they only saw oak, then the pellets are most likely oak, but if they also saw elm or walnut, the pellets may contain elm or walnut.

Also, to save a few $$$ pellet producers use petroleum products to lubricate their equipment instead of vegetable based oil and grease.

$45/40# bag is very expensive!


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 15, 2018)

tjohnson said:


> Heating Pellets are Heating Pellets.  The sawmill the sawdust comes from most likely does not separate sawdust from different species.  Your pellets may contain any species of wood that goes thru their sawmill.  If they only saw oak, then the pellets are most likely oak, but if they also saw elm or walnut, the pellets may contain elm or walnut.
> 
> Also, to save a few $$$ pellet producers use petroleum products to lubricate their equipment instead of vegetable based oil and grease.
> 
> $45/40# bag is very expensive!



I was thinking the same thing, although I am intrigued to see that they are posting on their site that they are approved for cooking use. Not something you'd publicize openly if not fairly safe.

As for 45 bucks, plus tax, for a 40 pound bag, that is the cheapest option for cooking pellets in Canada (at least based on what I can find and I have looked a fair bit). I can buy 20 pounds for 23-25 bucks and up if I go smaller. Hence my hopes of finding a cheaper alternative.

Below is what I am using right now due to cost and availability (also very well reviewed too).

www.amazon.ca/Cookinpellets-Perfect-Smoking-Pellets-40-Pounds/dp/B00819OICI

EDIT: Found a 40 pound bag of the "pit boss competition blend" for 40 bucks online at homedepot and costco.ca


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## tjohnson (Feb 15, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> I was thinking the same thing, although I am intrigued to see that they are posting on their site that they are approved for cooking use. Not something you'd publicize openly if not fairly safe.
> 
> As for 45 bucks, plus tax, for a 40 pound bag, that is the cheapest option for cooking pellets in Canada (at least based on what I can find and I have looked a fair bit). I can buy 20 pounds for 23-25 bucks and up if I go smaller. Hence my hopes of finding a cheaper alternative.
> 
> ...


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 15, 2018)

I don't see anything aside from my quoted post :(


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 15, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> I don't see anything aside from my quoted post :(



That's Todd,  the owner of Amazen products,  I would say give him a call tomorrow and talk with him.  He might be able to save you money on pellets up there.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 15, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> That's Todd,  the owner of Amazen products,  I would say give him a call tomorrow and talk with him.  He might be able to save you money on pellets up there.


He and I have spoken and he is awesome.

Unfortunately, me being in Canada and the cost of shipping will likely nullify and potential savings.

My main goal would be to find validity in the cheap ones I linked (if there is any). I know of a few people who use them but that doesn't make it safe or right. Would be great if it works out though as they're nearly 90 percent cheaper lol


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## Bearcarver (Feb 16, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> I don't see anything aside from my quoted post :(




Looks like Todd added below your quoted post:
Do you not have a Canadian Tire, Home Depot or Walmart close by?
Pellet Grill Fuel, like Pit Boss Pellets are typically $15-$20 per 40# bag

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 16, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Looks like Todd added below your quoted post:
> Do you not have a Canadian Tire, Home Depot or Walmart close by?
> Pellet Grill Fuel, like Pit Boss Pellets are typically $15-$20 per 40# bag
> 
> Bear


Oops, my mistake, thanks for that. I didn't expand the quote section :)

I do have a canadian tire/home depot. All are 40 or more for Pit Boss 40 pound bags. It is canadian tire who are selling the 40 pound bags at 5.99 that prompted my question regarding the canawick product for smoking http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/hardwood-pellets-40-lb-0642776p.html#srp


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 17, 2018)

I will write back once i hear back from canawick and get their current "ingredients" list. Doubt it'll pan out, but it would be nice if it does.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 20, 2018)

Well, I heard back from Canawick. See below for their answer when I asked about their product (which is labelled as hardwood, not a blend) being used for cooking.


_Hi Richard,


Although not intended for cooking purposes, we are aware that some people use our wood pellets for cooking and smoking food.  However please note we have not conducted any tests regarding food/cooking safety. 

Our pellets are a mixed blend of hardwoods (75%) and softwoods (25%). Hardwoods are Maple, Birch and aspen. The softwoods are Spruce and Fir. No additives or fillers are added and all lubricant used in the machinery are food grade.


We trust this responds to your questions.

Thank you!_


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## Bearcarver (Feb 20, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Well, I heard back from Canawick. See below for their answer when I asked about their product (which is labelled as hardwood, not a blend) being used for cooking.
> 
> 
> _Hi Richard,
> ...





Hmmm, Definitely wouldn't want to use Spruce or Fir, unless I'm building something.
They probably shouldn't be listing it as Hardwood.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 20, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Hmmm, Definitely wouldn't want to use Spruce or Fir, unless I'm building something.
> They probably shouldn't be listing it as Hardwood.
> 
> Bear



Yup, it's too bad. Was really hoping I could save some money lol. Oh well, back to a buck a pound.


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 20, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> Yup, it's too bad. Was really hoping I could save some money lol. Oh well, back to a buck a pound.



maybe I missed it but you have a walmart up there right?  how much for a 20# bag of pellets there?   I picked up a 20# bag of hickory pellets last night at one down here for $9.99.


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 20, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> maybe I missed it but you have a walmart up there right?  how much for a 20# bag of pellets there?   I picked up a 20# bag of hickory pellets last night at one down here for $9.99.



Usually 20-23 for 20 pounds or 40-45 for a 40 bag. The 40 pound bag of pit boss competition blend is on for 30 right now, so that's an option, although I've never used that before.


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 21, 2018)

has anybody tried putting an amnps with some legs under it on the drip trap at the bottom of these units?  does it snuff out due to no air or how do they run?  just got a gen 2.5 and there is a lot of real estate down there and was wondering if my pellet tray would burn clean down there ?


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> has anybody tried putting an amnps with some legs under it on the drip trap at the bottom of these units? * does it snuff out due to no air or how do they run? * just got a gen 2.5 and there is a lot of real estate down there and was wondering if my pellet tray would burn clean down there ?




Not enough air flow that low in the smoker.
I've found in my Gen #2.5 the best place is all the way on the right end of the bottom rack, just above the Chip dumper.

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 22, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> Not enough air flow that low in the smoker.
> I've found in my Gen #2.5 the best place is all the way on the right end of the bottom rack, just above the Chip dumper.
> 
> Bear



how much clearance do you then give it  from sausage products above it and to the sides when its on that rack?


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> how much clearance do you then give it  from sausage products above it and to the sides when its on that rack?



I never use the bottom rack for any smoking. IMO it's too close to the heating element & gives too much direct heat to any meat that would be on that bottom rack.
I would avoid putting any meat directly above the AMNPS on the next rack, but only worry about the very next rack up, and only the size of the AMNPS (5 X 8"). Any place else is fair game.

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 22, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I never use the bottom rack for any smoking. IMO it's too close to the heating element & gives too much direct heat to any meat that would be on that bottom rack.
> I would avoid putting any meat directly above the AMNPS on the next rack, but only worry about the very next rack up, and only the size of the AMNPS (5 X 8"). Any place else is fair game.
> 
> Bear



well I just got my 2.5 40 put together and burnt out last night... it is a beast compared to that gen 1 30 I was playing with for my last couple cooks.  I appreciate all your candor and patience as you walked me through the process.  Thank you.  I cant wait to try it out,  I am making some goose pastrami this weekend but I am not sure if I will use the 40 or throw them in the UDS.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> well I just got my 2.5 40 put together and burnt out last night... it is a beast compared to that gen 1 30 I was playing with for my last couple cooks.  I appreciate all your candor and patience as you walked me through the process.  Thank you.  I cant wait to try it out,  I am making some goose pastrami this weekend but I am not sure if I will use the 40 or throw them in the UDS.



I can't help you there---I never used a UDS.
But I'm here, any time I can help. I'm easier to find with a PM (Conversations), because I'm good at missing great Posts on this new forum thing. My Best To You.

Bear


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 22, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I can't help you there---I never used a UDS.
> But I'm here, any time I can help. I'm easier to find with a PM (Conversations), because I'm good at missing great Posts on this new forum thing. My Best To You.
> 
> Bear



oh man,  you got to try an UDS,  I have built 4 and given 2 away.  they arent for everything,  but for stuff that is going to drip a lot of grease or otherwise make a mess of my MES, I have the UDS.   The UDS can be run pretty steady and they are cheap to build,  but I wanted the MES primarily for sausage to maintain really steady low temps.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

jimmyinsd said:


> oh man,  you got to try an UDS,  I have built 4 and given 2 away.  they arent for everything,  but for stuff that is going to drip a lot of grease or otherwise make a mess of my MES, I have the UDS.   The UDS can be run pretty steady and they are cheap to build,  but I wanted the MES primarily for sausage to maintain really steady low temps.




I wish!---My health barely permits me to use an MES, which is the easiest of the pack.

Bear


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## Thundamonkey (Feb 22, 2018)

UDS is an "ugly drum smoker"? Haven't seen that UDS before so googled it lol


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## jimmyinsd (Feb 22, 2018)

Thundamonkey said:


> UDS is an "ugly drum smoker"? Haven't seen that UDS before so googled it lol



I was sceptical at first by the more I read the more I became interested...so I built 1, and then another,   and then I wanted to do a big cook for my daughter's graduation so I built 2 more.  They are really cheap to build,  work awesome,  and are easy on fuel.  I would highly recommend one to anybody.


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