# Foiling--The Texas Crutch



## daricksta (Dec 29, 2014)

Meathead Goldwyn doesn't believe in the 3-2-1 method for barbecuing pork ribs and cites reasons why he thinks it should only be used with beef brisket? What's the consensus of opinion here?

http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/texas_crutch.html

I don't think thread starters can be deleted but I thought the Smoking Meat General Discussion was a better place for this topic so I also posted it there.


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## bear55 (Dec 29, 2014)

I always follow the 3-2-1 method for spare ribs.  Of course, I pay attention during the last hour and remove them if needed.  Likewise, I always foil my briskets.


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## daricksta (Dec 29, 2014)

Bear55 said:


> I always follow the 3-2-1 method for spare ribs.  Of course, I pay attention during the last hour and remove them if needed.  Likewise, I always foil my briskets.


I think I'm going to experiment with ribs, using a crutch on one and leaving the other one unfoiled (I usually cook just two racks at a time) and compare the differences. I did something similar last year; three baby backs in a rib rack inside my Weber 22.5 inch One Touch Silver (with wood chips on the charcoal) and three racks in my MES 30 with wood pellets. I don't think I foiled any of the ribs in the smoker. Both sets of ribs turned out great.


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## slowcookaz (Jan 2, 2015)

I am new to smoking and an MES30.  Have cooked one brisket and one batch of loin back ribs.  Using 3-2-1 on the ribs, at 208 degrees, it seemed they could have cooked another hour or more to get more tender.  They were good, but a little firm for my taste.  Same on the brisket.  I have ordered a thermometer probe system for future use on brisket, pork butts and other big cuts, figuring temp as the guide instead of time.

Who cooks ribs more than 7 hrs, and at what temps?


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## bear55 (Jan 2, 2015)

SlowCookAZ said:


> I am new to smoking and an MES30. Have cooked one brisket and one batch of loin back ribs. Using 3-2-1 on the ribs, at 208 degrees, it seemed they could have cooked another hour or more to get more tender. They were good, but a little firm for my taste. Same on the brisket. I have ordered a thermometer probe system for future use on brisket, pork butts and other big cuts, figuring temp as the guide instead of time.
> 
> Who cooks ribs more than 7 hrs, and at what temps?


 
Ty cooking your ribs at 235-240 instead of 208 and you'll have it.


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## daricksta (Jan 2, 2015)

SlowCookAZ said:


> I am new to smoking and an MES30. Have cooked one brisket and one batch of loin back ribs. Using 3-2-1 on the ribs, at 208 degrees, it seemed they could have cooked another hour or more to get more tender. They were good, but a little firm for my taste. Same on the brisket. I have ordered a thermometer probe system for future use on brisket, pork butts and other big cuts, figuring temp as the guide instead of time.
> 
> Who cooks ribs more than 7 hrs, and at what temps?


At 208° an hour more would have been better. Like others here, I typically smoke at around 235° but plan to experiment with 250 this year. My ribs are done within 5-6 hours using a variances on the 3-2-1 method. Next time I'm going to try leaving one rack unfoiled while I cook the other one with 3-2-1 or something similar. I think the lowest temp I've heard of someone using consistently is 215.

With ribs, the pros like a little pull or tug when biting the meat off the bone. Falling off the bone is overcooked for them.

What therm probe did you order? I use the Maverick ET-733 but there are other good ones out there, too. The Maverick ET-733 and the older version, ET-732, are very popular throughout SMF.


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## mark4mn (Jan 3, 2015)

I religiously foil when I do meats on my CharGriller outlaw. However, I did find that doing similar cuts of meat in my SI #2 or #3 (have both!), I do not need to foil. The meat, in my opinion stays moister. That being said, I have been know to foil briskets and pork shoulder on the SIs to geat around the stall.

Mark


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## daricksta (Jan 3, 2015)

Mark4mn said:


> I religiously foil when I do meats on my CharGriller outlaw. However, I did find that doing similar cuts of meat in my SI #2 or #3 (have both!), I do not need to foil. The meat, in my opinion stays moister. That being said, I have been know to foil briskets and pork shoulder on the SIs to geat around the stall.
> 
> Mark


Until recently--in this thread--I'd never been given the advice to foil meat to get around the stall. I may try that this year to see how it goes. THE longest stall I ever had was with cooking a chuckie which stalled at 160° IT for literally hours. I was having a problem with my MES 30 that day (since resolved) which might have played into it.


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## cliffcarter (Jan 3, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Meathead Goldwyn doesn't believe in the 3-2-1 method for barbecuing pork ribs and cites reasons why he thinks it should only be used with beef brisket? What's the consensus of opinion here?


I concede that there is a reason he is known as "Meathead"
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






.

His best buddy, Dr. Greg Blonder, recommends foiling to get through the stall when cooking pork butts.... I thought Meathead was on board with that.

Too much self promotion at Amazing Ribs for me to take it too seriously. Some recipes are very good, other stuff is just off the wall or wrong.


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## daricksta (Jan 4, 2015)

cliffcarter said:


> I concede that there is a reason he is known as "Meathead"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I didn't know that about Amazing Ribs because I rarely visit there. For the most part I get my smoking tips from SMF.


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## parrot-head (Jan 6, 2015)

I made my first rack of baby backs over the weekend using 2-2-1 @ 225













20150104_191221_zpsb072ded5.jpg



__ parrot-head
__ Jan 6, 2015






They were good but not quite as tender as I like them.  I wrapped them in foil with some OJ in the bottom for the middle 2 hours.  Next time I'm going to try

to raise the temp a bit and place the ribs in an aluminum foil pan and wrap the pan.  Wondering if that will allow more steam to be created?


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## jted (Jan 6, 2015)

PaRRot-HeaD said:


> I made my first rack of baby backs over the weekend using 2-2-1 @ 225
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## daricksta (Jan 6, 2015)

Totally agree with what Jted advised. The 3-2-1/2-2-1 thing isn't set in stone. I do variations of it. I also do the "bend" test; you take the rack of ribs and slightly bend it outward while holding it at both ends. The ribs should bend easily without the meat coming off the bone. This test is a trial-and-error thing until you know what to look for.


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## daricksta (Jan 14, 2015)

I was watching a Food Network program on the best BBQ joints and I noticed something that got by me before: none of those places wrap their ribs or briskets in foil but most of them turn out food which is tender, moist and smoky. The only exception I saw was Mighty Quinn's BBQ in NYC. This one FN chef who I don't care for said it was the best BBQ joint in town. But what I saw was ribs with heavy black bark; a style I don't care for. The beef brisket looked absolutely dry to me; other joints on the same show did a much better job. I saw ribs and briskets which looked like what I produce in my MES 30, which filled me with pride.

Yes, I understand those joints aren't using small electric smokers and wood pellets, and some use those rotating carousel racks, but none of them used foil. So, this year I won't foil anything, not even a beef brisket, just to see if I can still produce moist, tender, and flavorful Q.


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## bmaddox (Jan 14, 2015)

I have gotten in the habit of foiling almost all pork and beef products. It was a necessity when I was using an old second-hand electric smoker that fluctuated temps frequently. Even with my new smoker I can't kick the habit. I guess one of these days I will do some test runs and see how it works.


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## smokesontuesday (Jan 16, 2015)

I've never foiled anything until I pull it from the smoker but I don't like ribs so I don't cook them often. If I did that might be the one thing I foiled regularly.


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## daricksta (Jan 16, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> I've never foiled anything until I pull it from the smoker but I don't like ribs so I don't cook them often. If I did that might be the one thing I foiled regularly.


You're a smoker and you don't like ribs? Sacrilege!


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## smokesontuesday (Jan 16, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You're a smoker and you don't like ribs? Sacrilege!


When they're good they are great and when they're bad they're really bad. I think it's the hassle of messing with them that I don't like more than liking/disliking ribs themselves.


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## bmaddox (Jan 16, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> When they're good they are great and when they're bad they're really bad. I think it's the hassle of messing with them that I don't like more than liking/disliking ribs themselves.


Looks like you need to try the texas crutch.


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## smokesontuesday (Jan 16, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You're a smoker and you don't like ribs? Sacrilege!


When they're good they are great and when they're bad they're really bad. I think it's the hassl


bmaddox said:


> Looks like you need to try the texas crutch.


Having to mess with foiling them is the hassle I'm talking about. There are just so much better cuts of meat, in my opinion of course, that are better. Even with them already done I'll always choose pulled pork or smoked pork loin over ribs. They're just not my favorite.


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## frosty (Jan 16, 2015)

She that must be obeyed 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  prefers a softer rib, so I generally don't foil, but have used pink butcher's paper in the past and it worked great.  When using the 3-2-1 method, I generally am done at about 4 - 4.5 Hours when complete and spray occasionally with apple juice.

Either way, GOOD LUCK!


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## daricksta (Jan 16, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> When they're good they are great and when they're bad they're really bad. I think it's the hassl
> 
> Having to mess with foiling them is the hassle I'm talking about. There are just so much better cuts of meat, in my opinion of course, that are better. Even with them already done I'll always choose pulled pork or smoked pork loin over ribs. They're just not my favorite.


I can understand they're not your favorite.

The biggest controversy with ribs is whether to foil or not to foil. They become really simple if you just season them with salt and pepper and leave them unfoiled. I like to use a more elaborate rub and I like to brush on some sauce in the last 30 minutes. Smoke pork ribs are my kids' favorites so what am I to do?


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## daricksta (Jan 16, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> When they're good they are great and when they're bad they're really bad. I think it's the hassl
> 
> Having to mess with foiling them is the hassle I'm talking about. There are just so much better cuts of meat, in my opinion of course, that are better. Even with them already done I'll always choose pulled pork or smoked pork loin over ribs. They're just not my favorite.


Beef brisket has the same controversy has pork ribs: to foil or not to foil to move it more quickly past the stall point. I've so far smoked them unfoiled. For some reason I haven't done pulled pork in a smoker, something I'll remedy next time out.


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## daricksta (Jan 16, 2015)

Frosty said:


> She that must be obeyed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You sound like you've got it down. My wife prefers ribs any way I choose to cook 'em just as long as they're flavorful and tender. I've smoked ribs both unfoiled and using the 3-2-1 (or variations of it) to great success.


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## daricksta (Jan 17, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> When they're good they are great and when they're bad they're really bad. I think it's the hassl
> 
> Having to mess with foiling them is the hassle I'm talking about. There are just so much better cuts of meat, in my opinion of course, that are better. Even with them already done I'll always choose pulled pork or smoked pork loin over ribs. They're just not my favorite.


Just curious: have you tried smoking pork tenderloins? I haven't but other guys have. My wife and I have cooked them in our kitchen oven and man, they come out as tender and flavorful as beef tenderloins. If you decide to smoke them (they always come two to a package) please post it on SMF.


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## smokesontuesday (Jan 20, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Just curious: have you tried smoking pork tenderloins? I haven't but other guys have. My wife and I have cooked them in our kitchen oven and man, they come out as tender and flavorful as beef tenderloins. If you decide to smoke them (they always come two to a package) please post it on SMF.


I've never smoked tenderloins but pork tenderloin roasted with sage is one of my favorite dishes ever. I don't see why it would be an issue though as long as you watch the temp closely. I'd imagine tenderloins are pretty unforgiving considering how lean they are.

I have smoked the whole loin quite a bit though. I'll wait till a meat sale then grab two or three of them. We usually slice one into chops about an inch thick and the others into 3-4 pound cuts for smoking or cooking like a roast in the electric skillet.


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## smokesontuesday (Jan 20, 2015)

Frosty said:


> She that must be obeyed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep. My wife loves ribs which is the only reason they ever get smoked at all at our house.


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## cliffcarter (Jan 20, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Just curious: have you tried smoking pork tenderloins? I haven't but other guys have. My wife and I have cooked them in our kitchen oven and man, they come out as tender and flavorful as beef tenderloins. If you decide to smoke them (they always come two to a package) please post it on SMF.


Here's a pork tenderloin cook of mine-

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/146563/pork-tenderloins


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## daricksta (Jan 21, 2015)

cliffcarter said:


> Here's a pork tenderloin cook of mine-
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/146563/pork-tenderloins


This looked really good. I bookmarked the page where you linked to your rub recipe sources.


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## daricksta (Jan 21, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> I've never smoked tenderloins but pork tenderloin roasted with sage is one of my favorite dishes ever. I don't see why it would be an issue though as long as you watch the temp closely. I'd imagine tenderloins are pretty unforgiving considering how lean they are.
> 
> I have smoked the whole loin quite a bit though. I'll wait till a meat sale then grab two or three of them. We usually slice one into chops about an inch thick and the others into 3-4 pound cuts for smoking or cooking like a roast in the electric skillet.


Yes, pork tenderloins are very forgiving.

I've never thought of slicing boneless pork loins into chops but that's a great idea. We do your weekly grocery shopping on Saturdays so this week I'm going to compare prices between whole pork loins and pork loin chops.


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## smokesontuesday (Jan 21, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Yes, pork tenderloins are very forgiving.
> 
> I've never thought of slicing boneless pork loins into chops but that's a great idea. We do your weekly grocery shopping on Saturdays so this week I'm going to compare prices between whole pork loins and pork loin chops.


Don't know where you shop but our local grocery store will even cut whole loins to order for the whole loin price. If I know the butcher working that day (couple of them used to work for my grandpa) then I'll save myself the trouble and have them cut and package the whole thing. Nothing frustrates me more than getting home with presliced meat and finding a whole bunch of half inch cuts underneath a couple of nice inch to inch and a quarter cuts on top.


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## daricksta (Jan 21, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> Don't know where you shop but our local grocery store will even cut whole loins to order for the whole loin price. If I know the butcher working that day (couple of them used to work for my grandpa) then I'll save myself the trouble and have them cut and package the whole thing. Nothing frustrates me more than getting home with presliced meat and finding a whole bunch of half inch cuts underneath a couple of nice inch to inch and a quarter cuts on top.


For now, we buy most of our meats at Safeway (don't know if you have this store in your area but it may be on its way out anyway after being purchased by a holding company which owns a few other chains. I've made friends with just about all the butchers and their policy is to cut up whole cuts of meat upon request.

When I buy pork chops at Safeway it's generally no more than a package of 4-6. Costco pork chops are all uniformly cut and so thick that many times I have to slice them in half crossways just so they don't take forever to cook in the oven and also because my wife doesn't like to eat big hunks of meat.


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## smokesontuesday (Jan 21, 2015)

We don't have Safeway/Homeland anymore but I'm familiar. I'd imagine most grocery stores with a meat counter would cut to order but who knows anymore.


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## daricksta (Jan 22, 2015)

SmokesOnTuesday said:


> We don't have Safeway/Homeland anymore but I'm familiar. I'd imagine most grocery stores with a meat counter would cut to order but who knows anymore.


Hard to say. The supermarket biz is extremely competitive but at the same time many chains have been bought out. I think maybe 2-3 investment firms (or whatever they're called) own most of the nationwide and regional chains. I know one company owns something like 6 different supermarket chains in California and Nevada. The company that bought Safeway also owns Albertson's and a few others.

We also have a Kroger-owned (another owner of several chains) supermarket in town and the butchers will custom cut if you ask.


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