# No foil ribs....



## inkjunkie (May 8, 2015)

Hoping to do some spares on the Egg tomorrow.  Trimmed and hit them with my doctored version of Jeffs rub. Few racks we have done were 3-2-1 at 225*. Ends up being more like 3-2-.5....anyhow, wondering if not foiling cages the time much?


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## worktogthr (May 8, 2015)

It all depends...running at 225 I have had some take up to 7 hours with no foiling.  I am in quite the conundrum myself this weekend.  Thawed out three racks of st louis and every one of them is a different size.  hahah I think I might have one done at 5 hours, 6 hours, and 7 hours.


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## mdboatbum (May 8, 2015)

Since the egg can do it, why not try 275°? Should be around 4 hours. Try Disco's trick of taking them to 180° then resting them til they cool to 150°. 
Not foiling changes the timing a good bit and also makes for firmer meat. If you're a fan of "fall off the bone" ribs, you may wanna keep on foiling. I like my ribs to be the texture of perfectly cooked pork loin. Did a fair bit of experimentation and settled on 275°, smoke til I got the color I like, foil for 30-40 minutes until they pass the bend test, then back in unfoiled for 15-20 minutes just to dry the surface and set the glaze or sauce if I'm using it. It stil isn't as consistent as I'd like, which is why I like Disco's idea of target temps.


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## inkjunkie (May 9, 2015)

Gave the ribs a real healthy dose of rub and put them in the Egg on one of Todds Q-mats. Those mats are one of the best things I have ever purchased.  Set the DigiGuru at 225*. Much to my surprise at the 5 hour mark they were probe tender and cracked when I lifted them from the end. Very juicy. Had just the slightest bit of pull to get the meat off the bone.  No more foiling ribs for me.


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## themule69 (May 9, 2015)

No foil will make some good ribs. Not much change in the time.

Happy smoken.

David


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## noboundaries (May 9, 2015)

inkjunkie said:


> *No more foiling ribs for me.*


Woo HOO!  Another convert!

I'm a no foil, 250F for 6 hours guy now.  We just had SLCs two weeks ago but my wife wanted them again for Mother's Day.


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## timberjet (May 9, 2015)




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## gary s (May 9, 2015)




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## inkjunkie (May 9, 2015)

No pictures. For some reason site will not allow me to imbed pictures from my phone. To much like work to use my camera. Perhaps someone may have some advice on how to correct my phone troubles?


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## timberjet (May 9, 2015)

inkjunkie said:


> No pictures. For some reason site will not allow me to imbed pictures from my phone. To much like work to use my camera. Perhaps someone may have some advice on how to correct my phone troubles?


You can try tapatalk. I used to use it when I had an android phone and it worked great. Not so much with my new windows phone. I just email them to myself from my phone and it's easy then upload from machine. Only takes a minute or two.


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## zalbar (May 9, 2015)

When I was new I did the 3-2-1 religiously. One time I didn't have foil and just let it rip for 6 hours. Best ribs I've ever eaten and haven't foiled since.


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## inkjunkie (May 9, 2015)

timberjet said:


> You can try tapatalk. I used to use it when I had an android phone and it worked great. Not so much with my new windows phone. I just email them to myself from my phone and it's easy then upload from machine. Only takes a minute or two.


Tapatalk....entered this site in the search, can't find it


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## timberjet (May 9, 2015)

inkjunkie said:


> Tapatalk....entered this site in the search, can't find it


scuze me, google taptalk on your phone to get the app Doug.[emoji]128522[/emoji]


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## timberjet (May 9, 2015)

It works with most forums on Android and IOS phones. Kind of neat unless you happen to have a friggen windows phone [emoji]128222[/emoji]


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## timberjet (May 9, 2015)

I guess that would be the Google play store or whatever


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## inkjunkie (May 9, 2015)

timberjet said:


> I guess that would be the Google play store or whatever


You may have misunderstood me....I had Tapatalk installed....entered the name of this site in the search box, didn't find this site....should have been more specific, sorry about that...


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## welshrarebit (May 9, 2015)

You have to enter the exact name: smokingmeatforums.com


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## inkjunkie (May 9, 2015)

Welshrarebit said:


> You have to enter the exact name: smokingmeatforums.com


Tried that....still no luck....


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## inkjunkie (May 9, 2015)

Found it this time...


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## sparemags (May 11, 2015)

Inkjunkie,

Thanks for this thread.  I have always foiled my ribs, but I've wanted to get away from that.  I'm going to try it this weekend.


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## inkjunkie (May 11, 2015)

SpareMags said:


> Inkjunkie,
> 
> Thanks for this thread.  I have always foiled my ribs, but I've wanted to get away from that.  I'm going to try it this weekend.


I was more than pleasantly surprised with the outcome.  I applied my normal amount of rub the night before and then hit them with about half that just prior to putting them on. They were pretty lively when it came to the spices...
I was on the fence about spritzing. Was worried they would be dry but they were anything but. I think if my wife hadn't used the spray bottle that I was going to use I would have spritzed them...glad I didn't.  
Good luck with yours....please do let us know how they come out...


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## sparemags (May 11, 2015)

Sure will, bud.


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## oddball (May 13, 2015)

I've never used the foil method. And after reading the comments here, I see no reason to even try.


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## oldschoolbbq (May 13, 2015)

Junkie , you won't be dismayed by the results . If your guest want a Sauce , have one on the table by all means , but let the meat speak for itself .And , Yes

for another convert.













IMG_0596.JPG



__ oldschoolbbq
__ May 4, 2015






Have fun and . . .


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## inkjunkie (May 13, 2015)

oldschoolbbq said:


> Junkie , you won't be dismayed by the results . If your guest want a Sauce , have one on the table by all means , but let the meat speak for itself .And , Yes
> 
> for another convert.
> 
> ...


just me and the boss....and neither one of likes BBQ sauce....for the most part. If we could find one that was not comprised of mostly sugar we MAY feel differently. Buddy in AZ "cooked" a brisket for me once while I was there. The weeks prior to my visit all I heard was how great it was. No more than 2 hours of smoke, rest of time in an oven. Pulled it out of the foil...slathered it with store bought BBQ sauce....to me that just wasn't BBQ....


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## joe black (May 13, 2015)

I cooked ribs naked for years, then the foil craze hit and I started wrapping and did that for a couple of years.  Recently, I have had a rash of mushy FOTB ribs and wondered what was going on.  From what seems to be the rule now, I am going to go back to my old ways and cook a batch naked.  I hope my touch returns.   Joe


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## beaverhunter (May 13, 2015)

If a person is not gonna foil how long do you add smoke for same 3 hours or longer?


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## smokin218r (May 13, 2015)

Beaverhunter said:


> If a person is not gonna foil how long do you add smoke for same 3 hours or longer?


Most of what I have seen, instead of the 3-2-1 or 2-2-1 methods, they are just leaving them in the smoker for the whole 5-6 hours.

Depending on the toothpick or bend.


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## smokin218r (May 14, 2015)

I will be trying the no foil approch myself this weekend.


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## inkjunkie (May 14, 2015)

Beaverhunter said:


> If a person is not gonna foil how long do you add smoke for same 3 hours or longer?






Smokin218R said:


> Most of what I have seen, instead of the 3-2-1 or 2-2-1 methods, they are just leaving them in the smoker for the whole 5-6 hours.
> Depending on the toothpick or bend.


Our first foiless ribs were done on our BGE so no way for them not to be hit with smoke. I was surprised when they were done in 4 hours and 55 minutes. I have really come to like the Egg. Hardly ever see any visible TBS yet everything comes out with a beautiful ring. 
We had some leftovers....sadly I had a stomach bug set in and am afraid to finish them off....


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## noboundaries (May 14, 2015)

Man oh man, I HATE those stomach bugs. 

I heard Aaron Franklin just say on TV the other night, and I'm paraphrasing, "If you are using a complicated process you aren't making barbeque."  Simple works best for me.  I start the smoker (dry smoke, no water), lightly rub the SLC ribs (not BBs), load the meat at hints of blue in the cloud of smoke at the proper temp (250F for me), then forget about the ribs for 5 hours when I start saucing every 30 minutes until done, usually right at 6 hours.  I've had one rack bend properly at 5.5 and one took 6.5 out of the dozen racks or so I've done since Christmas.

Unwrapped gives such a nice, thin bark and juicy, tender insides.  Mmmmmm, good.


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## inkjunkie (May 14, 2015)

I haven't had one this bad in a few decades. Have a doc visit later today. Thinking we may call to cancel and see if he will call a script in for me....afraid I won't make it to town, it is an hours drive to his office, without having something wanting to exit my body...


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## noboundaries (May 14, 2015)

My wife and I were both there with you earlier in the Spring.  I feel for you IJ!


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## inkjunkie (May 14, 2015)

Noboundaries said:


> My wife and I were both there with you earlier in the Spring.  I feel for you IJ!


Both of you at once?


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## noboundaries (May 14, 2015)

Me first.  Wife a week later.


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## dukeburger (May 14, 2015)

Diving into the no-foil abyss this weekend also after reading all of this. Great thread.

I'll be smoking two St. Louis Style racks with two rubs; Rub #1: Jeff's rub vs Rub #2: 50/50 mix of turbinado sugar and Tatonka Dust.

Shall this be the no-foil mega-thread?

Gonna be a good long weekend.


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## nivekd (May 14, 2015)

Stopped using foil awhile ago...never again. Ribs seem to get mushy with foil. These are done with no foiling.













DSCN0113.jpg



__ nivekd
__ May 14, 2015


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## cal1956 (May 14, 2015)

I cooked an average of 20 racks of spare ribs per week for quite a while , never used foil or anything else to cover ribs , smoked them at 225 for 4-4 1/2 hours ..tender as hell


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## smokin218r (May 14, 2015)

DukeBurger said:


> Diving into the no-foil abyss this weekend also after reading all of this. Great thread.
> 
> I'll be smoking two St. Louis Style racks with two rubs; Rub #1: Jeff's rub vs Rub #2: 50/50 mix of turbinado sugar and Tatonka Dust.
> 
> ...


I'm in for the no foil but nervous. I have had success doing 2-2-1 or so on bb's. I have 6 racks of spares to do either tomorrow or sat. for a fishing trip. Never done no foil or spares, I hope I can feed the guys good ribs?
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I'm also in for the no foil mega thread with one question. Do we post our no foil cooks here? Or start new threads?


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## cal1956 (May 14, 2015)

cooking ribs is a no brainer ...you don't need special "methods" or some math lesson ..just put rub on them , throw them in the smoker and set the temp at 225

and check them in 4 hours , IF they aren't  quite done to your liking cook until they are


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## pc farmer (May 14, 2015)

No foil ribs are not hard.  Cook at what ever temp your want, cook to probe tender and sauce the last 30 mins if you want.

Simple.


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## cal1956 (May 14, 2015)

c farmer said:


> No foil ribs are not hard. Cook at what ever temp your want, cook to probe tender and sauce the last 30 mins if you want.
> 
> Simple.


I disagree with "cook at whatever temp you want "  if you exceed 225 degrees by very much the ribs will be tough as shoe leather , the key to tender ribs is low and slow ( but I have never cooked even the toughest ribs more than 5 hours ) after about 4 4 1/2 hour take the ribs out and let them sit for at least an hour , this lets the juice redistribute through out the meat 

  did an actual blind  test once...... on one plate fresh ribs ( right off the smoker ) 2nd plate.... ribs that had rested about an hour , 3rd plate .....ribs that had been smoked the day before  and rewarmed to 160 degrees ...... ..99% picked the day old ribs that had been rewarmed as best tasting and most tender ..( no sauce just dry rub  )


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## pc farmer (May 14, 2015)

Sorry, I never cook under 275 and as high as 500.













IMG_20140703_200339240_zpszjbumupg.jpg



__ pc farmer
__ May 14, 2015


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## dukeburger (May 14, 2015)

c farmer said:


> Sorry, I never cook under 275 and as high as 500.
> 
> 
> 
> ...










How long do ribs normally take at these temps?


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## gary s (May 15, 2015)

Beautiful ribs  look great

Gary


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## pc farmer (May 15, 2015)

DukeBurger said:


> :drool
> How long do ribs normally take at these temps?



At 275 about 4 hours, at 500 bout 90 mins.


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## inkjunkie (May 15, 2015)

c farmer said:


> At 275 about 4 hours, at 500 bout 90 mins.


Want to try them hotter and faster....


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## noboundaries (May 15, 2015)

Interesting the turn this thread is starting to take with cal1956's comment.  I'm going to jump in the camp of chamber temp is relative.  Here's why:

Regardless of the meat, there is a huge misconception about the absolute necessity of low n slow for tougher cuts of meats.  Until I started smoking meat I never did anything low and slow in the oven (briskest, chuckies, butts, ribs, etc).  Sometimes I braised (cooked in a liquid), sometimes not.  The temps I used were always 350F or higher.  Collagen in meat, the connective tissue stuff that makes meat tough and must melt to make tougher cuts of meat tender and juicy, will melt regardless of the chamber temp you use.   Lower temps require longer exposure to heat; higher temps less exposure.  It all has to do with heat transfer, but I'm not going to get into that.   

The real issue is the window of perfection.  That perfection window shrinks at higher temps.  The lower the temperature you use, the better your chances of hitting that window if you smoke your meat long enough.  At 500F that window may only be 10-15 minutes.  At 225F that window could be 60-90 minutes or more, depending on the size of the meat.  It is that expanded window of perfection that makes low n slow smoking meat (225F+) more successful for folks.   

In just about every case where someone says "I smoked my ribs, brisket, butt at 225F for (blank) amount of time and they were dry and tough.  What happened?"  The answer generally can be explained as they were not cooked long enough.  If the connective tissue doesn't melt you get dry and tough tasting meat.  That often gets interpreted as overcooked when the exact opposite is true; they were undercooked. 

Bottom line, pick a temperature and time range that works for you.  Understand what is happening to the meat.  Then share that success with others, but please don't make the mistake of believing the myth that one temperature is necessary for perfection.  There is entirely too much evidence to the contrary.


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## inkjunkie (May 15, 2015)

Noboundaries said:


> Interesting the turn this thread is starting to take with cal1956's comment.  I'm going to jump in the camp of chamber temp is relative.  Here's why:
> 
> Regardless of the meat, there is a huge misconception about the absolute necessity of low n slow for tougher cuts of meats.  Until I started smoking meat I never did anything low and slow in the oven (briskest, chuckies, butts, ribs, etc).  Sometimes I braised (cooked in a liquid), sometimes not.  The temps I used were always 350F or higher.  Collagen in meat, the connective tissue stuff that makes meat tough and must melt to make tougher cuts of meat tender and juicy, will melt regardless of the chamber temp you use.   Lower temps require longer exposure to heat; higher temps less exposure.  It all has to do with heat transfer, but I'm not going to get into that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation.  For me I just want to try different ways. 
That being said I like the larger "window" that the lower temperature provides. Being a novice at smoking I need as big of a "safety zone" as I can get. 
But it is nice to know that there is more than one way to get a good tasting end result.


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## joe black (May 15, 2015)

Very good post and well put.  Its always good to have another opinion of this caliber to help with our learning curve.  I hope mine is not flat.
Thanks,  Joe


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## cal1956 (May 15, 2015)

regardless how you do it,  you still need to let the ribs rest  in order to redistribute the juices


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## dukeburger (May 15, 2015)

Is there a change in the amount of smoke absorbed using higher temps? A hot and fast piece of meat would have less time to snatch up that tasty goodness...


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## pc farmer (May 15, 2015)

DukeBurger said:


> Is there a change in the amount of smoke absorbed using higher temps? A hot and fast piece of meat would have less time to snatch up that tasty goodness...:icon_eek:



Hot n fast still gets great smoke flavor.  When i cook at 500 its a wood fire.


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## mike5051 (May 15, 2015)

I've got two slabsof SLC's  to do Sunday. No foil mega thread!

Mike


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## nickthebeast (May 16, 2015)

I've only cooked a few times no foil. I've enjoyed the taste however they seem to take on a lot more smoke.   Today I'm doing 2 slabs of St Loui. I'm cooking on a meadow creek off set.  Today I'm using all wood for the first time in a long time.  So far so good.  Put them on about 30 min ago and temp is good.  Holding between 230 & 260. does anyone have any thoughts on wrap or no wrap cooking on straight wood?


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## nickthebeast (May 16, 2015)

20150516_100708.jpg



__ nickthebeast
__ May 16, 2015





Here is a little Q view. 1 1/2 hrs in


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## dukeburger (May 18, 2015)

Can someone explain the bend test to me?

Is there a ballpark IT of when to start the bend test? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   *Edit- Just read 180 in an earlier post


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## inkjunkie (May 18, 2015)

DukeBurger said:


> Can someone explain the bend test to me?
> Is there a ballpark IT of when to start the bend test? :help:


Wondering why as well.


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## noboundaries (May 18, 2015)

Simple bend test for SLCs: I pick up the heaviest end of the ribs with a pair of tongs, about three inches or so from the end.  If the ribs bend 45 to 60 degrees they are done. Sometimes the bark breaks a little, sometimes not.  

I have never checked the IT of ribs with a thermometer and I've done dozens upon dozens of racks.


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## inkjunkie (May 18, 2015)

Noboundaries said:


> Simple bend test for SLCs: I pick up the heaviest end of the ribs with a pair of tongs, about three inches or so from the end.  If the ribs bend 45 to 60 degrees they are done. Sometimes the bark breaks a little, sometimes not.
> 
> I have never checked the IT of ribs with a thermometer and I've done dozens upon dozens of racks.


Understand how to do it....but have no clue as to the "science" behind it...


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## gary s (May 18, 2015)

I never even thought about checking the temp on my ribs ?

Gary


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## dukeburger (May 18, 2015)

Just started my smoke:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/194105/no-wrap-st-louis-ribs-two-rubs-qview


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## noboundaries (May 18, 2015)

inkjunkie said:


> Understand how to do it....but have no clue as to the "science" behind it...



Basically just a variation on the probe test but also gives and indication of the bite.  Melted collagen is involved again.  If it bends and breaks, mushy ribs.  If it doesn't bend far enough, lots of tug and possibly dry bite.  That 45-60 degree bend usually gives a great bite.


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## oscuba (May 18, 2015)

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I experimented and decided the foil wasn't needed if I had a good water supply by the coals. Far less messy and less work when not wrapping. Just raise the heat after 2 hours of good smoking. I like the 250 degree mark as others commented. In fact, some pros cook at 250. Just make sure you learn how to apply the moisture, both spray and water in the grill. Your ribs will be tug off but you'll have the moisture needed to digest the tough stuff.

In fact, my last (last!) practice of wrapped ribs ended up fall off. Yeah, my fault but it seems to add a step that increases error.

Doing a test of Sous Vide Brisket finishing tonight: 3 hour pre-cold smoke, Sous Vide 40 hours (small brisket), 2 hour finish smoke that I hope will make at least some noticeable crust. I love learning! It's always good tasting failures too.

Cheers!


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## cael (Jun 30, 2015)

I think I would like to try no foil ribs tomorrow for Canada Day.       Any thoughts on a rub that contains or does not contain sugar?    I was wondering if the time outside the foil might cause more burn in a rub with sugar in it.    But perhaps some of you have tried it and like that caramelizing effect??

So...sugar or no sugar in the rub??


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## joe black (Jun 30, 2015)

Jeff's rib rub is great.  I have used it with much success.  My personal rub contains sugar, but its turbinado sugar and doesn't burn as easy as table sugar.  Good luck,  Joe


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## phatbac (Jun 30, 2015)

Cael said:


> I think I would like to try no foil ribs tomorrow for Canada Day.       Any thoughts on a rub that contains or does not contain sugar?    I was wondering if the time outside the foil might cause more burn in a rub with sugar in it.    But perhaps some of you have tried it and like that caramelizing effect??
> 
> So...sugar or no sugar in the rub??


Im a big fan of sugar but i use Turbinado sugar.(sugar in the raw) I found it doesn't blacken much at all and i also like alternative sweeteners such as maple powder and agave nectar. 

Happy Smoking,

phatbac


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## zalbar (Jun 30, 2015)

Don't worry about the sugar.That's a problem only with high heat temps. I used to foil basically because everyone said so. Did it off foil once, and they were the best I've ever had. Never foiled since.


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## cael (Jun 30, 2015)

And its rubs with sugar for the win!

Thanks everyone, and I will let you know how it goes.   :biggrin:


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## cael (Jul 1, 2015)

Quick question about the bend test.   I had to cut my rib racks in half.   So will the bend test still reliably predict doneness without the extra weight to pull them down?

Or should I use a toothpick test?   If so, slide in like butter?  Or just go in easy?

Thanks.   Got about 2-3 hours before they need testing.:help:


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## mummel (Jul 1, 2015)

Ive tried 3 racks now unfoiled and none of them have been FOTB.  My next one will definitely be foiled.


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## joe black (Jul 1, 2015)

Toothpick in like butter or check two adjacent bones and see if they're easy to wiggle.


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## cael (Jul 1, 2015)

So ribs turned out excellent.   Olive oil and a rub, then in the smoker at about 240 for near to seven hours.  Might have been able to take off at six, but had a hard time coming back to temp after putting the ribs in.   Fluctuations for almost 2 hours.    Added some Italian sausages for the last 4 hours as well.   Mostly apple wood with just a touch of hickory.    Coated them in the last 45 min with Sweet Baby Rays.

Then popped them in a 170 degree oven for 20 minutes of so while we finished up a few things.   They were excllent.   Right in between tender firm and fall off the bone.    Sauce carmelized nicely, just perfect for most of us, while the hubby added a little more at the table.

I would pretty much always make them this way!  Simple and just the right texture.













image.jpg



__ cael
__ Jul 1, 2015


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## jp61 (Jul 1, 2015)

Looks yummy! Nice smoke!


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## jaxrmrjmr (Nov 10, 2016)

I did my first racks of no foil this past weekend since learning the science of the meat.  The whole family liked them better.  I did not sauce them but I will in the future.  We like a good bit of smoke as well as a light rub.

Thanks to this site, I learned what really makes tough meat tender - the melting/breaking down of the connective tissue.  The previous times I have tried no foil ribs, I would get nervous that I was drying them out and pull them way too early.  I used the toothpick (probe) method this time to measure for tenderness.

I have actually found that simplifying most things have given me the best results:

Ribs and butts - rub them, smoke them until they are done.

Brisket - rub it, smoke it to IT of 160-165 and then foil it with some beef base.  Cook it until toothpick tender.  Then let it rest for an hour or so.  I do inject beef base from time to time.  I foil this to save time.

Chicken - brine it, smoke it until the white meat is 160 or the dark meat is 175

Sausage - use fat as the binder instead of NFMP and water, bring it up to temp slowly as to not render the fat, then an ice bath.

This site, well, the people on it, have taught me tons.......


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## pc farmer (Nov 10, 2016)

JaxRmrJmr said:


> I did my first racks of no foil this past weekend since learning the science of the meat.  The whole family liked them better.  I did not sauce them but I will in the future.  We like a good bit of smoke as well as a light rub.
> 
> Thanks to this site, I learned what really makes tough meat tender - the melting/breaking down of the connective tissue.  The previous times I have tried no foil ribs, I would get nervous that I was drying them out and pull them way too early.  I used the toothpick (probe) method this time to measure for tenderness.
> 
> ...



This is what make this forum the best on the net.

When I add sauce, I add it bout 30 mins before the ribs are done.  One application and I kinda cooks on so it isn't so wet.


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## jaxrmrjmr (Feb 25, 2017)

The last 3-4 times I have smoked ribs, I've smoked no-foil.  I will never go back.  Just smokey pork goodness.  So glad I read this thread.


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