# Help on timing 11lb Pork Picnic Roast



## lovespicyfood (Dec 26, 2014)

Hello Everyone,

I'm progressing well down the rabbit hole of smoking...  :)  Last week I smoked a 6lb chicken.  Yesterday, for Xmas, I smoked a cured 14lb turkey.  Tomorrow, I'm planning on smoking an 11lb Pork Picnic roast for a neighborhood get together.  The plan is to have some pulled pork for sliders w/ fresh cole slaw.

I have a question regarding cooking times.  I know it would technically take ~16 1/2 hours to smoke this meat.  However, the party is at 4pm so I'm not going to have that much time.  I'm using a 30" MES w/ the cold smoker addition.  I plan on putting the meat in as soon as I wake up, perhaps ~7am.  I will crank the MES up to the highest temp...unfortunately, since the internal thermometer is off by up to 20 degrees, I can only get my unit up to ~250 degrees.

I figure I can slow cook it in the smoker for ~7 hours and then finish it off in a hot oven.  Does that sound reasonable?  I plan on using the finishing sauce in the "pork sticky".  The pulled pork will probably be put into a crock pot for holding/serving.

I'm going to season the meat tonight w/ Pappy's.  Should I just trim off the skin from the cut of meat before seasoning?

TIA for your advice/suggestions!


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## bear55 (Dec 26, 2014)

I always take my pork butts or picnic roasts to 165 and then foil them.  This has the effect of increasing the moisture in the meat as well as decreasing the cooking time.  If cooking at 250 and if you foil I think you can be done in 8-9 hours.  You can, of course finish it off in the over as you indicated.

Richard


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## disco (Dec 26, 2014)

I've hear 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours per pound but I have found that trying to predict when a pork shoulder will be ready is almost impossible. Each piece of meat is cooked when it is cooked. Some take hours longer than another. 

If you give yourself lots of time, the pork will stay warm for hours if you wrap it in foil and a towel and put it in a cooler. It also reheats well.

If I wanted an 11 pound pork shoulder to be ready for 4 pm, I would start it the day before and smoke it overnight so I was sure it would be ready. If you intend to pull it as opposed to slice it, cook it to an internal temperature of about 205 F and forget about trying to time your cook.

I have even smoked it right through the day before and reheated it for serving. You don't run into time problems and no one has ever known it was cooked the day before.

So in summary, what I do is put it in the smoker the day before, smoke it overnight to an internal temperature of 205 F. I wrap it in foil and a towel and put it in a cooler for a couple of hours and pull it. You can then keep it warm or reheat it.

As for foiling, I find the advantages of foiling are the meat has a somewhat moister texture and the meat cooks faster. The disadvantage is you don't get a really dark bark. It will make a good bark but not as dark as unfoiled.

The advantages of not foiling is a great bark. The disadvantages are it will take longer to cook and the meat will be a slightly drier texture. Not a bad texture, just different.

I do both depending on what I feel like.

Disco


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 26, 2014)

I much appreciate both of your replies and suggestions!  Unfortunately, I've left no time to cook this the night before, so I'm going to get up early tomorrow morning and start it.  I will do the foil method and if I start running out of time, I'm going to put it in the oven at a hotter temp.

I'll post back to this thread and let you know how it goes!  :)


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 27, 2014)

Woke up at 5am and started my 30" MES.  It is cold for southern California, 46 degrees this morning.  Temp of smoker is 250-275 degrees.  Got it in at 5:30 am and went back to bed.  2 1/2 hours later, the pork is temping at 111 degrees.  I am going to foil it at 165.

Wood chips always stick to the side of the  Masterbuilt cold smoker attachment.  There was no smoke when I woke up, half the load of chips was stuck and I had to tamp it down.  I guess that is okay, seems like most don't smoke it for the entire time.

I haven't opened the door to the smoker at all.  I know most mist the meat every couple hours but I don't have anything to really do that.  Do you think it will be okay?  

I am going to make the finishing sauce to add to it when it is pulled.


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## disco (Dec 27, 2014)

Misting isn't necessary. Some do it, some don't. I personally don't but I do add a foiling juice when I foil it.

Disco


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 27, 2014)

Disco said:


> Misting isn't necessary. Some do it, some don't. I personally don't but I do add a foiling juice when I foil it.
> 
> Disco



Thanks Disco!  We're at 162 degrees after a little more than five hours.

Having only cooked a chicken and turkey, I was a little surprised to see fat oozing out of the fat drain on my MES...have yet to open the door since I put it in so excited to see how it looks.  I will try to take a pic and post!


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## disco (Dec 27, 2014)

Cool. Hang in there. There may or may not be a stall where it will stay at one temperature for a long time.

Disco


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## timberjet (Dec 27, 2014)

You are on the right track. After numerous experiences with many big Butts I have come to the conclusion that 2 hours per pound is what you get most of the time. That includes a couple hours in the cooler. You are probably about to reach the stall. Don't fret.... It happens and foiling does help get through that but that is a big hunk of meat with a lot of connective tissue and fat to dissolve. I always tell my friends and family you just can't rush perfection. Like Dave said stick with it. Tough it out. If it is not done at exactly 4 that is just the way it is. Do not, I repeat do not pull it before it is done. You will be sorry. Been there done that. A lot of guys who have those smokers swear by smoke generating devices like the amnps and such. This way you have consistent reliable smoke while it is cooking all night and you are snoozing away. A big butt like that is a commitment for sure. I probably would have started it at bed time and set my alarm to wake me up every few hours to check it out. It is also nice to have a wireless temp. probe setup so you can check it out from the nightstand. Ok that is all I have and I hope you can get it done in time. My last one took 22 hours with being foiled and it was around 10 pounds if I recall correctly. You can finish it in the oven if you really must but they are better if you let them cook as long as it takes.


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## red dog (Dec 27, 2014)

And there is no shame in foiling and finishing in the oven at a higher temp if you need to. It will be delicious either way. And like I have been told and done before, If it doesn't get to pulling temp and you need to serve just slice some delicious roast pork and pretend that's the way you planned it!


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks for the replies gentlemen!  It hit 165 and I wrapped it in foil.  It SMELLS SO GOOD!  

I'm hoping it'll get done before 4pm, but we'll see...  If not, I will have to pull it and cook it at higher temp in the oven as I committed to this party and have to deliver.  Fortunately, I just have to walk across the street...

I wasn't really considering the AMNPS, but now I have second thoughts...Wood always gets stuck in the MES cold smoker such that it "runs out of smoke" at times.  The paint is kind of bubbled up inside the stack so perhaps I can clean it up and lessen this issue...

Posting a couple pics!


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## red dog (Dec 27, 2014)

Dang that looks like a nice chunk of meat there! Nicely done.


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## tom 178 (Dec 27, 2014)

Hi Lovespicyfood. When I pan and foil mine a lot of juice comes out so I use a pretty deep pan. If you try to pull it out of the smoker in the pan be careful that the pan is not full of juice that will spill all over. That monster piece you have there may even need to add some juice while foiled to steam it and cut the cooking time. Last night when I took mine out I had one with so much juice I had to suck some out with a baster just so I could bring it in the house without spilling it. So just make sure there is some juice in it while it is covered with foil but not too much 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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Here is what mine looked liked.













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http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/174848/pork-butts-in-mes-30


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 27, 2014)

Tom, that LOOKS GOOD!  Thank you for the tip, I am using a pretty deep pan.  I did not trim the skin or any fatter so I imagine it might gush a bit as I get rid of the skin/some fat...

Just did a quick bike ride and it is now sitting at 196 degrees at 1:45pm so I guess I lucked out on timing!  :yahoo:  It does seem that my MESA was holding more accurate temps (according to my ET-733) so that had to help.  It was more 265-275 instead of the normal 240-255 max temps...

Cole slaw is cooling in the fridge and I will be sure to take some pics and post the final images to this thread!

Thank you everyone for your gracious and kind help!  Number 3 is almost in the bag...


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 27, 2014)

Pulled it out of the smoker at 3pm at 199 degrees.  It's resting in a cooler right now, wrapped in towels.

I didn't peak, but it felt jiggly, like a bowl full of jelly (how appropriate?), so I'm guessing that is a good sign...more later...


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## gary s (Dec 27, 2014)

We need pictures

Gary


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## timberjet (Dec 27, 2014)

You can easily post pictures on this site so we don't have to download your pictures. Right above where you type you will see six boxes starting with size etc.... it is the little one that looks like a picture. You can then upload from your machine. I for one have an ancient computer and I am scared to death of downloads. Would love to see the pics though.


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 27, 2014)

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Okay, I think I figured out the pics...

OMG, out of three things I've smoked so far, I think this turned out the best!!!!  It was a HIT at the neighborhood party!  I do have to say, I think I would brine and inject that large of a pork shoulder next time.  I used the finishing sauce and that really helped a lot.  Otherwise, I think the meat was a little bland by itself.  The BARK was good, with lots of flavor, I just don't think the dry rub penetrated enough.

I had some regular and spicy bbq sauce and combined with some fresh cole slaw on a hamburger bun, it was a great combination!

Thanks to everyone who helped me!  What a great dish for a potluck!


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## gary s (Dec 28, 2014)

Man that is a thing of beauty, looks great  good job

Gary


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## disco (Dec 28, 2014)

Terrific looking pork!







Disco


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## timberjet (Dec 28, 2014)

I think the reason you may have not gotten much smoke and rub flavor is the skin. Try this next time.













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You can also stick cloves of garlic in the slits here and there. You might also rub and let sit for more than just overnight. I like 3 days if I think that far ahead. Looks great though. Happy smoking. timber


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## timberjet (Dec 28, 2014)

Some of the folks here do inject but the vast portion do not. If you brine a shoulder that is already enhanced like most of them are you may end up with a very hammy texture to the meat. You might try experimenting with different types of wood to get more flavor as well. Apple juice is a good liquid to add to your Butt when you foil as it penetrates the meat well and helps break down the tissues. If it was a little dry which I suspect you might have gone a little too far with it or it did not have enough time to rest in foil with juices. All in all it looks like a great first try to me. Do you have an external thermometer setup that you can check the ones that came with the unit to? I have seen where they can be as much as 25 to 50 degrees off. I have a maverick. Sorry if you already said that and I missed it. anyway, great smoke. Have a good day.


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## red dog (Dec 28, 2014)

You nailed it! Great job. You are in big trouble now. You will get invited to lots of parties but you can guess the rest!


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## disco (Dec 28, 2014)

timberjet said:


> I think the reason you may have not gotten much smoke and rub flavor is the skin. Try this next time.
> 
> You can also stick cloves of garlic in the slits here and there. You might also rub and let sit for more than just overnight. I like 3 days if I think that far ahead. Looks great though. Happy smoking. timber


I go as far as to cut a lot of the fat cap off. There is more than enough fat and collagen in the pork to keep it moist and you get more edible bark.

Disco


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## gary s (Dec 28, 2014)

Yeah, remove the skin and most of the fat

Gary


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## lovespicyfood (Dec 28, 2014)

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for the active discussion!

I was thinking that a big part of why I wasn't able to infuse more flavor into the meat was that I didn't take any skin or fat off, nor did I cross-hatch.  That totally makes sense to do that but i was worried that it might get too dry.  I like the bark and getting more of it would be a big plus in my book!

The pork was plenty moist!  Though I did use a finishing sauce, I think that added flavor more than needed moisture...

I do have to say I'm hooked.  I saved some left overs and am about to have some pulled pork bbq sandwiches w/ cole slaw for lunch!  YUM!

I have read a lot about the pros/cons of injected a pork shoulder.  Not sure if I would do it next time...I do like the bark so removing the skin and some fat might be the ticket for me.  Perhaps I'll inject w/ apple juice right before smoking next time...not sure...  I read somewhere that injecting w/ a brine that has vinegar might make the left overs more "mushy" the following days and that would be a bummer.  Considering my results were pretty satisfactory, I think incremental changes to my technique is called for...

Looking forward to the next smoke!  Not sure what that'll be...maybe some jerky...

timberjet- I am using a ET-733.  The MES temp gauge really varies like you said.  This time I used separate extensions cords and I'm no electrician, but I do wonder if perhaps the MES was getting a wee bit hotter than usual as I was spreading the 2,000 watts over two cords instead of one.  Sometimes the MES is spot on and most of the time it is ~15 degrees off...

As you may recall, I cooked this pork shoulder hotter than recommended, to it'll be interesting to see if lower and slower makes a difference if I have time next time...


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## beefy bill (Dec 28, 2014)

I did two at once, one with skin and fat, one trimmed. The trimmed one was much more smokey and flavorful. Cross hatching probably makes it even better. Next time...


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## lovespicyfood (Jan 3, 2015)

Picked up a 2lb boneless picnic today...  Coated it with Pappy's and planning on cooking it at 225 tomorrow with all hickory.  This is going to be for my lunch next week...


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## lovespicyfood (Jan 4, 2015)

Wow, after 3 hours the IT is only 144!  I turned up the heat to 275 and plan on wrapping it at 165...  I wanted to go to bed early tonight...  Will take a pic when I take it out to wrap in foil.  I haven't opened the door once so far...













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## lovespicyfood (Jan 4, 2015)

4 hours in and I finally hit 165.  Here it is before I wrapped it!













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## lovespicyfood (Jan 4, 2015)

5 hours and we're at 194!  I think I'm going to pull it not much above 195 as I need to get some sleep tonight and I'd like to rest at least for half an hour...

Interested to see how this little 2lb roast is going to compare to the 11lb best I prepared a week ago...


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## lovespicyfood (Jan 4, 2015)

Well that was disappointing...  Pulled it off at 198 and let it rest 30 minutes.  It wouldn't pull!  I had to use a knife to cut it up!

I'm wondering if I got a pork shoulder?  There's hardly any fat?!













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## gary s (Jan 5, 2015)

How was it ?

Gary


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## lovespicyfood (Jan 5, 2015)

gary s said:


> How was it ?
> 
> Gary


To be honest, it was a little disappointing!  :(  I'm not sure if I got a bad piece of meat...  I cooked it SLOW at 225 most of the way but it is not tender or juicy like my 11 pounder!  It's not bad...I used a finishing sauce...but the meat has very little fat...almost like a pork loin but the package said "Pork Picnic Shoulder."  It was boneless but I can't imagine that made that much a difference.  

It was so disappointing that it wouldn't shred w/ forks...


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## gary s (Jan 5, 2015)

Yeah some cuts of pork are very lean and you really have to watch that temp.

Gary


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## timberjet (Jan 5, 2015)

Looks like it might have been mislabeled. I bet it was a sirloin roast. Would have been really good cooked like a loin.


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## lovespicyfood (Jan 5, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Looks like it might have been mislabeled. I bet it was a sirloin roast. Would have been really good cooked like a loin.



That is what I was thinking!!  Does a leaner cut take longer to cook?  It took forever to get this  thing to what I thought was "pulling temperature."  Is a sirloin roast like a loin so 165?


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## timberjet (Jan 6, 2015)

A leaner cut takes much less time to cook. A large shoulder or butt has a ton of fat to render and connective tissue to dissolve. This takes a long time to happen at low and slow temperatures. A lean cut like a loin can be cooked to med. rare. This means taking it out at 135-145 instead of 203-205. You can not pull a lean piece of pork. You want all that fat and connective tissue in a cut of meat that you plan on pulling. A typical pork loin does not take much more than an hour and a half to cook at 225 and usually less. If you try and cook lean pork to pull you end up drying it out as there is not enough fat to keep it moist.


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## lovespicyfood (Jan 6, 2015)

I am perplexed about how this came out because it took a long time to get the temp up on this meat and I had my ET-733 verifying that the smoker was a pretty consistent 225.

The wife made a pork sirloin roast in the crock pot today.  Unfortunately I did not see what it looked like when she put it in.  It was a lean piece of meat, leaner than the 2 pound meat I cooked.  But that 2 pound piece of meat was loads leaner than the 11 pound piece I cooked prior.

It was interesting as the 2 pound piece of meat was $2.88 at Walmart.  The 11lb piece was, if I remember correctly, was around $1.59/lb...


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## superdave (Jan 6, 2015)

I think of a picnic roast as more of a ham.  Is it typical to pull this cut?


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## superdave (Jan 6, 2015)

I think of a picnic roast as more of a ham.  Is it typical to pull this cut?


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## superdave (Jan 6, 2015)

I think of a picnic roast as more of a ham.  Is it typical to pull this cut?


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## timberjet (Jan 7, 2015)

SuperDave said:


> I think of a picnic roast as more of a ham.  Is it typical to pull this cut?


A picnic or butt or boston butt which are all from the shoulder of the hog are the best cuts of pork for pulling. When you get pulled pork at your local BBQ joint it came from one or both of those cuts. Most hams are from the hind end of the hog and the aforementioned cuts are from the front shoulders. There are a few Butchers that frequent this site and one will be along shortly I am sure to more specifically tell you why.


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## superdave (Jan 7, 2015)

All the picnic cuts I've ever seen are much leaner than butts.  If you google, "picnic ham", there are 100's of hits for the cut used as a ham.  I find the texture of the picnic roasts to much denser than a butt.


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## timberjet (Jan 7, 2015)

I have made picnic ham before and there is nothing wrong with it. Yum. But if you want pulled pork it works for that too. Lots of connective tissue and fat makes for good pulled pork folks.













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Lean?













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## beefy bill (Jan 7, 2015)

I think it was mislabeled. And it took long because of the high internal temp you took it to. It  probably only took 2 hrs or less to get to its ideal temp of 135 140. Plus less mass let's it heat up inside faster. A small piece of picnic or Boston butt would probably reach 135 140 in the same amount of time.


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