# How long to cold smoke fresh sausage?



## shtrdave

I was going to get one of the Amazinsmokers small one probably, but looking at that pellet one makes me think that would be great for cold smoking fresh sausage, I usually use kits with cure, have done some with cure and my own seasonings but have never cold smoked any just hot smoke.

So how long do you usually cold smoke for? I would be using a 48" older Cabelas SS propane smoker as my cabinet for hanging sausages.

thanks

dave

Any one know how big the pellet smoker is It doesn't show size but looks larger than the dust versions.


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## alblancher

When it comes to "fresh sausage" ( uncured) you need to follow the 4 hour rule. 

If using a premixed cure I would follow the directions supplied by the manufacturer. 

If you are going to follow one of the recipes posted on the forum using Cure 1, Instacure 1, or tenderquick you have a bit more flexibility.  I normally keep the smoker at about 130 -150 degrees for 4 or 5 hours then crank it up to 240-250 to bring the sausage up to temp.  I have in the past cold smoked for 7 hours and then put direct into a 240 smoker to bring to final temp.   I do not know of any solid rule for cold smoking a cured sausage, I guess it comes down to what you are trying to achieve but I would think 3 or 4 hours in the cold smoke and then a couple of hours in the smoker will be plenty.

Let us know what you decide to do

Al


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## tjohnson

I usually smoke for anywhere from 2 1/2 hours to 6 hours, but recently smoked bacon for 12 hours, and absolutely loved it.  I think the type of wood you use has as much to do with the end results as the length of smoke.

I've never smoked fresh sausage, only cured sausage.

If you're cold smoking cured sausage, do you need to bring it up to temp, or just cold smoke?

I am assuming they will be finished on a grill or pan fried to temp anyway.

Am I thinking this out correctly?

The pellet burner is actually 5 3/8" x 8", and you have the option to use pellets or sawdust.  If you're leaning towards hot smoking with it, then the pellet burner is a better choice.

Todd


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## venture

Al has you on the right track.  With fresh sausage you can hot smoke it, you can grill it, or you can use other traditional methods.

Do NOT try to cold smoke fresh sausage, or you will run the risk of botulism, or other nasties.

Better yet, make your own and put cure in the sausages you want to cold smoke.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## africanmeat

Venture said:


> Al has you on the right track.  With fresh sausage you can hot smoke it, you can grill it, or you can use other traditional methods.
> 
> Do NOT try to cold smoke fresh sausage, or you will run the risk of botulism, or other nasties.
> 
> Better yet, make your own and put cure in the sausages you want to cold smoke.
> 
> Good luck and good smoking.


Venture is 100% right. for long cureing  air or cold smoke you will be safe if you will put in cure #2

Cure #2, also called "Prague Powder #2", is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite. Cure #2 is used on items that are dry cured over an extended period of time, like salumi or cured meats. The sodium nitrate in the cure breaks down over time to sodium nitrite and that is then broken down to nitric oxide, which acts as an oxidizing agent keeping the meat safe from our most evil of enemies, botulism. It's therefore CRITICAL to making safe cured meats.


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## stewie-q

alblancher said:


> If you are going to follow one of the recipes posted on the forum using Cure 1, Instacure 1, or tenderquick you have a bit more flexibility.  I normally keep the smoker at about 130 -150 degrees for 4 or 5 hours then crank it up to 240-250 to bring the sausage up to temp.
> 
> Al


Is 130-150 considered cold smoking when it comes to cured sausage?


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## timberjet

cold smoking in the true definition would be under 40 degrees. No heat. If your sausage has cure in it in the correct amount you can smoke it at any temp. Follow a tried and true technique of which there are many on here.


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## smokeywoody

So if I cure I will be able to cold smoke??


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## daveomak

smokeywoody said:


> So if I cure I will be able to cold smoke??




If this is homemade fresh sausage, you will need to add cure #1 at the rate of 1 tsp. per 5#'s of meat....   then you can cold smoke at 50-70 ish deg. F with no fear of botulism...  Cure #1 adds flavor and changes the meat from brown/grey to pink..    and stops the growth of botulism and some other pathogens...  

Smoking reduces the available oxygen in the air...  botulism grows in a reduced oxygen environment...


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## smokeywoody

Thank you so much!!! Any good pointers on wood???


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## smokeywoody

image.jpeg



__ smokeywoody
__ Nov 21, 2015





 here's my set up!!!!


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## biscuit

I know this is an old subject but I'm curious about something. I keep reading about all the dangers of smoking fresh sausage. But I wonder how much gets lost in translation. I've noticed that everyone does things different and cooks their meat different. I have read where some people boil sausage. Which where I come from is unheard of. We usually cook it on the grill if it's link or fried if it is ground. I also wonder how many are getting lost in the term " cold smoke"? When we refer to smoked sausage here, it really only means flavored. It doesn't mean preserved. So when we pull a pack out of the freezer to put on the grill it still gets treated like a fresh raw sausage and cooked all the way done. A few of the threads I've read, I think this is what is being talked about but gets twisted as it goes. So is there any opinions on smoking for flavor only and not for preserving?


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## mkriet

Biscuit said:


> I know this is an old subject but I'm curious about something. I keep reading about all the dangers of smoking fresh sausage. But I wonder how much gets lost in translation. I've noticed that everyone does things different and cooks their meat different. I have read where some people boil sausage. Which where I come from is unheard of. We usually cook it on the grill if it's link or fried if it is ground. I also wonder how many are getting lost in the term " cold smoke"? When we refer to smoked sausage here, it really only means flavored. It doesn't mean preserved. So when we pull a pack out of the freezer to put on the grill it still gets treated like a fresh raw sausage and cooked all the way done. A few of the threads I've read, I think this is what is being talked about but gets twisted as it goes. So is there any opinions on smoking for flavor only and not for preserving?



I'm still fairly new to smoking sausage,  but from what I've learned,  if no cure is being used, you need to follow the 4 hour rule.   Meaning the meat has to go from 40 degrees to 140 within 4 hours to ensure there are no issues with things like botulism.  

Some of the others here can chime in if I'm wrong.  So if you plan to cold smoke for flavor,  I would say don't smoke any longer than 4 hours.

I myself don't have the guts to be the first one to try something other than the tried and true methods.   I'll leave it up to the experts.


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## g dog

How long to cold smoke depends on how much smoke flavor you want.  The way I do mine is starting at about noon I start a fire in my smoke box and let that burn out. Usually 3-4 hours.  Then I let it "rest" until right before I go to bed, then I start the fire again and let it do the same thing.  The next morning I will do this again.  The resting period let's it "breath" and absorb more of the smoke flavor. Three smokes will make a very smokey sausage that will be pink all the way through!  I love it!

I do this only in the dead of winter here in Minnesota and the temperature in the smoker never gets above 40 degrees.  I do this with fresh sausage with no cure.


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## boykjo

Biscuit said:


> I know this is an old subject but I'm curious about something. I keep reading about all the dangers of smoking fresh sausage. But I wonder how much gets lost in translation. I've noticed that everyone does things different and cooks their meat different. I have read where some people boil sausage. Which where I come from is unheard of. We usually cook it on the grill if it's link or fried if it is ground. I also wonder how many are getting lost in the term " cold smoke"? When we refer to smoked sausage here, it really only means flavored. It doesn't mean preserved. So when we pull a pack out of the freezer to put on the grill it still gets treated like a fresh raw sausage and cooked all the way done. A few of the threads I've read, I think this is what is being talked about but gets twisted as it goes. So is there any opinions on smoking for flavor only and not for preserving?


First off welcome to SMF and were glad to have you aboard. Can you swing over to roll call and introduce yourself so we can give you a proper welcome.

Boiling fresh sausages was very common years back when regulations were not in effect or as good as todays standards. As the older generations grew up they boiled the sausage to kill any bactieria that would make you sick. I remember as a kid my mom would boil the fresh kielbasa for a good 30 minutes....it became a normal practice.

Cold smoke is only to add smoke flavor to the sausage. If you want to add more smoke flavor you will need to smoke for a longer period of time which will require a preservative to allow you to smoke at lower temps for longer periods of time.

You can cold smoke fresh sausage but it needs to reach 160 degrees internal temp in 4 hrs, Hot smoke at 180 degrees and it will get done in the safe zone of 4 hrs.

Boykjo


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## pugsbrew

smokeywoody said:


> image.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> __ smokeywoody
> __ Nov 21, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here's my set up!!!!


Could you show us how you built the inside?  Thanks


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## skipdiggidy

Venture said:


> Al has you on the right track.  With fresh sausage you can hot smoke it, you can grill it, or you can use other traditional methods.
> 
> Do NOT try to cold smoke fresh sausage, or you will run the risk of botulism, or other nasties.
> 
> Better yet, make your own and put cure in the sausages you want to cold smoke.
> 
> Good luck and good smoking.


I have cured sausage and wanted to cold smoke it for as long as possible,any suggestions?


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## boykjo

I form a pellicle on the sausage then cold smoke for 2 hrs max. The smoke will adhere to the pellicle and cut down on the long smoking period and give the sausage a nice smoke flavor.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/242481/hot-dogs-and-cocktail-smokies

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/155444/frankfurters-yeah

Boykjo


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## tennesseecold

Just read your post as I am new to the forum.

When I hear "cold smoke", to me, that means the temperature never exceeds 70F (ideal temp is around 40F); basically all you want to do is flavor the sausage with the smoke; not cook it. Once smoked the sausage is still raw and must be cooked before eating.

I put my sausage in a 2lb. cloth sack (made for this purpose) and smoke it (using an A-MAZE-N pellet smoker with Hickory pellets) over three or four days or until I get the color I'm looking for (reddish brown) on the outside of the sack. You can do link sausage this way if you use the proper casing.

 I monitor the weather/temperature/humidity to assure I'm not going to have a hot (above 70F) day/excessively cold/unusually wet day during smoking. I can only smoke during the winter months, usually middle/late December until early February in my area.

The short answer to your questions is "smoke it until you get the desired flavor". There no specific time period, in my opinion, as there are weather factors that can have an effect on the smoking process.


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## wild west

I'm assuming you are useing a cure in the sausage mix if you are smoking over that length of time


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## daveomak

TennesseeCold said:


> Just read your post as I am new to the forum.
> 
> When I hear "cold smoke", to me, that means the temperature never exceeds 70F (ideal temp is around 40F); basically all you want to do is flavor the sausage with the smoke; not cook it. Once smoked the sausage is still raw and must be cooked before eating.
> 
> I put my sausage in a 2lb. cloth sack (made for this purpose) and smoke it (using an A-MAZE-N pellet smoker with Hickory pellets) over three or four days or until I get the color I'm looking for (reddish brown) on the outside of the sack. You can do link sausage this way if you use the proper casing.
> 
> I monitor the weather/temperature/humidity to assure I'm not going to have a hot (above 70F) day/excessively cold/unusually wet day during smoking. I can only smoke during the winter months, usually middle/late December until early February in my area.
> 
> The short answer to your questions is "smoke it until you get the desired flavor". There no specific time period, in my opinion, as there are weather factors that can have an effect on the smoking process.


Taken from Marianski's forum... 
[h1]Cold Smoking[/h1]
Cold smoking at 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1-14 days, applying thin smoke with occasional breaks in between, is one of the oldest preservation methods. We cannot produce cold smoke if the outside temperature is 90° F (32° C), unless we can cool it down, which is what some industrial smokers do. Cold smoking is a drying process whose purpose is to remove moisture thus preserving a product.

You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C). Cold smoking assures us of total smoke penetration inside of the meat. The loss of moisture also is uniform in all areas and the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Cold smoking is not a continuous process, it is stopped (no smoke) a few times to allow fresh air into the smoker.

In XVIII century brick built smokehouses a fire was started every morning. It smoldered as long as it could and if it stopped, it would be restarted again the following morning.








Cold smoked meats prevent or slow down the spoilage of fats, which increases their shelf life. The product is drier and saltier with a more pronounced smoky flavor and very long shelf life. The color varies from yellow to dark brown on the surface and dark red inside. Cold smoked products are not submitted to the cooking process. If you want to cold smoke your meats, bear in mind that with the exception of people living in areas with a cold climate like Alaska, it will have to be done in the winter months just as it was done 500 years ago.
















Cold smoking at its best. Smoking continues through the night. _Photos courtesy Waldemar Kozik._

Using dry wood is of utmost importance when cold smoking. It is recommended to keep wood chips in a well defined single pile as they will have less contact with air, thus will smoke better without creating unnecessary flames and heat. By following these rules we achieve 75-85% humidity, creating the best conditions for moisture removal. Once the moisture content drops low enough, the salt present in the meat will further inhibit the development of bacteria and the products can hang in the air for months losing more moisture as time goes by.

Lox (smoked salmon) is smoked with cold smoke for an extended period of time. Applying hotter smoke (over 84° F, 28° C) will just cook the fish, the flavor will change and we will not be able to slice it so thin anymore. Cold smoking is a slow process and the hams, which lend themselves perfectly to this type of smoking, can be smoked from 2 to even 6 weeks. During smoking they will slowly be acquiring a golden color along with a smoky flavor.






Cold smoking allows us total smoke penetration inside of the meat. Very little hardening of the outside surface of the meat or casing occurs and smoke penetrates the meat easily.


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## charcoal junkie

Check this out. It should help.http://www.meatsandsausages.com
Get their books and read them front to back.


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## skipdiggidy

TennesseeCold said:


> Just read your post as I am new to the forum.
> 
> When I hear "cold smoke", to me, that means the temperature never exceeds 70F (ideal temp is around 40F); basically all you want to do is flavor the sausage with the smoke; not cook it. Once smoked the sausage is still raw and must be cooked before eating.
> 
> I put my sausage in a 2lb. cloth sack (made for this purpose) and smoke it (using an A-MAZE-N pellet smoker with Hickory pellets) over three or four days or until I get the color I'm looking for (reddish brown) on the outside of the sack. You can do link sausage this way if you use the proper casing.
> 
> I monitor the weather/temperature/humidity to assure I'm not going to have a hot (above 70F) day/excessively cold/unusually wet day during smoking. I can only smoke during the winter months, usually middle/late December until early February in my area.
> 
> The short answer to your questions is "smoke it until you get the desired flavor". There no specific time period, in my opinion, as there are weather factors that can have an effect on the smoking process.


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## Rick the Hun

For cold smoked pork sausage I've always used prague powder #2 and hung it in a fridge for at least 24 hours to let the casing dry and the cure to start working before smoking.  I smoke it for 3 days making sure the temp never gets over 80F.  It then gets dry cured for 2 weeks-3 months.  After 2 weeks of curing it's a little moist but you don't need to cook it.  *You absolutely must use  prague powder #2 for this method*.


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## daveomak

Rick the Hun said:


> For cold smoked pork sausage I've always used prague powder #2 and hung it in a fridge for at least 24 hours to let the casing dry and the cure to start working before smoking.  I smoke it for 3 days making sure the temp never gets over 80F.  It then gets dry cured for 2 weeks-3 months.  After 2 weeks of curing it's a little moist but you don't need to cook it.  *You absolutely must use  prague powder #2 for this method*.



At what temp do you dry cure it at ???  Do you add any extra salt to get the salt content up ??


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## Rick the Hun

daveomak said:


> At what temp do you dry cure it at ???  Do you add any extra salt to get the salt content up ??


Ok, here's my 300+ year old recipe.

10kg pork (70% lean, 30% fat)
200g paprika (get the imported Hungarian stuff, go for the sweet but you can substitute some hot paprika.  I wouldn't go past a 70/30 mix because it gets a little to hot after that)
100g pressed garlic
177g pickling salt (no iodine, no anti caking stuff, just pure salt)
23g Prague Powder #2  (double check my math according the directions on the package, total salt should be 200g)
20g fresh ground black pepper
approximately 20 metres natural hog casing

Grind the meat using a medium plate then add the seasoning in the following order: garlic, paprika, black pepper, then the salts (prague powder and pickling salt).  Mix well adding a little water or white wine.  Stuff the casing and let hang in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours.  Smoke for 3 days at a temperature below 80F.  Dry for 2 weeks-3months @ 55-60F starting at 90% humidity and gradually lowering it to about 65%.  The sausage should weigh about 30-40% less due to moisture loss.

This is sort of a Transylvanian/Hungarian type of pepperoni.  Once it's dried you can eat it cold or cut up a link and toss it into some water with a potato and boil it.  When the potato is done it's ready to go.  A bit of horseradish or mustard and some fresh rye bread go well with it (as does a nice cold beer or glass of wine).

You're going to need a scale because all the ingredients are by weight not volume.


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## daveomak

Rick...  that's a good recipe...


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## chef jimmyj

Dang! That sounds AMAZING! THanks for sharing...JJ


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## Rick the Hun

Thank you, gentlemen.  For a truly authentic flavour use beech to smoke it.  It's not that easy to get in North America but I've been able to get some sawdust from Germany through Amazon.  I'm doing up a double batch this weekend!!


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## Rick the Hun

Ooops, I forgot something.  The links should be in the 10-12 inch range.  But you probably already figured that out.


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## ffspiel

Hi Rick

The recipe looks like a Hungarian Kolbasz recipe... do you know if it’s a Gyulai variety... or?

The reason I ask... I’m going to try to smoke my own... cold smoked.  We had a meat vender locally that made it for years... and they sold it as “hungarian Kolbasz a mild”.  

I don’t recall it having been cooked.  It was definitely smoked... it could be eaten uncooked.  

(It was sad to see the place go.  I knew the original owners... friends of my mom and dad - both Hungarian - now we have no source.  Rick... help!)

Thanks for your time...



Rick the Hun said:


> Ok, here's my 300+ year old recipe.
> 
> 10kg pork (70% lean, 30% fat)
> 200g paprika (get the imported Hungarian stuff, go for the sweet but you can substitute some hot paprika.  I wouldn't go past a 70/30 mix because it gets a little to hot after that)
> 100g pressed garlic
> 177g pickling salt (no iodine, no anti caking stuff, just pure salt)
> 23g Prague Powder #2  (double check my math according the directions on the package, total salt should be 200g)
> 20g fresh ground black pepper
> approximately 20 metres natural hog casing
> 
> Grind the meat using a medium plate then add the seasoning in the following order: garlic, paprika, black pepper, then the salts (prague powder and pickling salt).  Mix well adding a little water or white wine.  Stuff the casing and let hang in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours.  Smoke for 3 days at a temperature below 80F.  Dry for 2 weeks-3months @ 55-60F starting at 90% humidity and gradually lowering it to about 65%.  The sausage should weigh about 30-40% less due to moisture loss.
> 
> This is sort of a Transylvanian/Hungarian type of pepperoni.  Once it's dried you can eat it cold or cut up a link and toss it into some water with a potato and boil it.  When the potato is done it's ready to go.  A bit of horseradish or mustard and some fresh rye bread go well with it (as does a nice cold beer or glass of wine).
> 
> You're going to need a scale because all the ingredients are by weight not volume.


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## ffspiel

Also... how did you dry it?


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## franko

biscuit said:


> I know this is an old subject but I'm curious about something. I keep reading about all the dangers of smoking fresh sausage. But I wonder how much gets lost in translation. I've noticed that everyone does things different and cooks their meat different. I have read where some people boil sausage. Which where I come from is unheard of. We usually cook it on the grill if it's link or fried if it is ground. I also wonder how many are getting lost in the term " cold smoke"? When we refer to smoked sausage here, it really only means flavored. It doesn't mean preserved. So when we pull a pack out of the freezer to put on the grill it still gets treated like a fresh raw sausage and cooked all the way done. A few of the threads I've read, I think this is what is being talked about but gets twisted as it goes. So is there any opinions on smoking for flavor only and not for preserving?


I like to make fresh bulk sausage, add Cure #1, make patties, and cold smoke them for a couple of hours. Then I flash freeze the patties, package them and store them in the freezer. They can be put in the skillet and fried as desired.


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## bill ace 350

In the fall or spring,  when the temperature is between 32 and 40, I cold smoke fresh sausage.

I use an amazen pellet smoker, and in my smoke hollow smoker doesn't raise the temperature above 40 degress.

Like a refrigerator with smoke.


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## chef jimmyj

In terms of Sausage, or any Non-Intact Meat, Cold Smoking, in contrast to Hot Smoking, is smoking at any temp below 180°F. At temps between Ambient and 180, the Internal Temp of the meat, at the center, can easily be in the Danger Zone, 40°F to 140°F, for a sufficient amount of time for hazardous Bacteria to grow. At 70 to 100°F, bacteria can grow rapidly and while subsequent cooking will kill the living bacteria, Heat Stable Toxins, a byproduct of cell growth and division, can reach levels that can cause serious illness or Death.
While the use of Cure #1 affords protection from the growth of some of the worst Pathogens, Clostridium Botulinum, Listeria, E-Coli 0157 and Salmonella, there are other Toxin Producing Bacteria like Staphylococcus Aureus, that Cure has little to no effect on. The Safest procedure to Cold Smoke to simply Flavor the Sausage but not Cook, SAUSAGE up to 40 mm thick, is to Smoke at 40°F or less, for any length of time. At 40 to 70°F, no more than 2 hours, and above 70°F, for no more than 1 hour, before Cooking to a safe IT, or Freezing ASAP. This means laying the Sausage out in a Single Layer and freezing solid before packaging for longer storage...JJ


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## pugsbrew

shtrdave said:


> I was going to get one of the Amazinsmokers small one probably, but looking at that pellet one makes me think that would be great for cold smoking fresh sausage, I usually use kits with cure, have done some with cure and my own seasonings but have never cold smoked any just hot smoke.
> 
> So how long do you usually cold smoke for? I would be using a 48" older Cabelas SS propane smoker as my cabinet for hanging sausages.
> 
> thanks
> 
> dave
> 
> Any one know how big the pellet smoker is It doesn't show size but looks larger than the dust versions.




OK guys/gals, I know this is an old thread, but I think there is confusion in what the OP asked.  And, I'm confused.

1st  You take fresh made sausage and want to cold smoke it, NOT MAKing SALAMI, you better have cure #1 in it.  This could be links or bulk sausage (does anyone smoke bulk sausage patties?).  Am I wrong?

2nd  When someone asks cold smoking, they need to define cold smoking.  If one could get the temp of the meat above 140F in 4 hrs, that is not cold smoking, to me.

3rd  Throwing cure #2 for just confused the issue from the OP's question, IMHO.

4th Did his "Fresh Sausage" title really mean a sausage w/o cure?  I know some have taken "Fresh" sausage as meaning NOT linked sausage.

Just me asking.  I know what I do, but some guys reading this may not.

Thanks


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## chef jimmyj

pugsbrew said:


> OK guys/gals, I know this is an old thread, but I think there is confusion in what the OP asked.  And, I'm confused.
> 
> 1st  You take fresh made sausage and want to cold smoke it, NOT MAKing SALAMI, you better have cure #1 in it.  This could be links or bulk sausage (does anyone smoke bulk sausage patties?).  Am I wrong?
> *With the exception of the specific Time and Temp instructions I posted above, you are Correct. Cure #1 needs to be added if Smoking below 180°F. Sausage Patties with added Cure #1 smoke up just fine.*
> 
> 2nd  When someone asks cold smoking, they need to define cold smoking.  If one could get the temp of the meat above 140F in 4 hrs, that is not cold smoking, to me.
> *CORRECT*.
> 3rd  Throwing cure #2 for just confused the issue from the OP's question, IMHO.
> *I guess it could. But distinguishing between or understanding the difference between Smoked Cured Sausage with Cure #1. And Dry Cured Smoked Sausage using Cure #2 is benificial.*
> 
> 4th Did his "Fresh Sausage" title really mean a sausage w/o cure?  I know some have taken "Fresh" sausage as meaning NOT linked sausage.
> *Typically, Fresh Sausage, Linked or not, contains No Cure and must be Hot Smoke. The same difference exists between Fresh Ham, Uncured Pork Rear Leg, and Smoked Ham that contains Cure #1.*
> 
> Just me asking.  I know what I do, but some guys reading this may not.
> *You make some good points...JJ*
> 
> Thanks



Expand for answers...JJ


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