# Usual story- newbie considering first smoker.



## Rathog23 (Mar 16, 2019)

Just signed up and I am planning on doing a lot of reading before plunking down $$ on a smoker. Leaning towards a Masterbuilt electric to get started and possibly a pellet later but, we'll see.


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## GaryHibbert (Mar 16, 2019)

Welcome to the forum.
I know very little about pellet poopers, but I've had a MES 30 for years and love it.
Gary


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## newsmokerky (Mar 16, 2019)

Welcome.  I've only been smoking for 4 years or so, but I love my Smokin It electric.  I am smoking everything I can get my hands on since I bought it.  A little more $ than a MES, but so easy to maintain temp.  Good luck with whatever you get.


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## dernektambura (Mar 16, 2019)

In no time you will hit 230 lbs on scale just by trying all good recipes stuff members of this incredible forum come up with... lol....


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## Rathog23 (Mar 16, 2019)

Dernek - I'll lose weight ? ;-) .  
 Anyway, I've thought about propane  because it would be nice during a power outage but, I'm also interested in things like cheese and nuts and my understanding is that an electric is better for lower temps. Also, safety concerns with gas however, fewer moving parts and less electronics to go kerflooey is appealing. 
 From some things I've read I am concerned about the durability of Masterbuilt .


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## newsmokerky (Mar 16, 2019)

I had a propane smoker.  I had some great results with it, but had to constantly baby sit and monitor it.  My new Smokin It #2 is just brain dead easy.


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## wbf610 (Mar 16, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> Dernek - I'll lose weight ? ;-) .
> Anyway, I've thought about propane  because it would be nice during a power outage but, I'm also interested in things like cheese and nuts and my understanding is that an electric is better for lower temps. Also, safety concerns with gas however, fewer moving parts and less electronics to go kerflooey is appealing.
> From some things I've read I am concerned about the durability of Masterbuilt .


If you want simple, the ability to hold steady temps, with minimal moving parts, and no electric needed, check out a WSM.


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## Rathog23 (Mar 16, 2019)

The WSM keeps popping up as an option in various threads.  My understanding was that charcoal takes more babysitting but, it looks like I need to rethink that.


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## wbf610 (Mar 16, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> The WSM keeps popping up as an option in various threads.  My understanding was that charcoal takes more babysitting but, it looks like I need to rethink that.


Not in the WSM.  Mine will hold steady for 12 hours or more on a full load of coal, depending on ambient temps.


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## Rathog23 (Mar 16, 2019)

Sorry wbf610 but, I haven't quite got the quote thingy worked out :-) .  Isn't there a learning curve for the WSM compared to electric or pellet ?


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## dernektambura (Mar 16, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> Dernek - I'll lose weight ? ;-) .
> Anyway, I've thought about propane  because it would be nice during a power outage but, I'm also interested in things like cheese and nuts and my understanding is that an electric is better for lower temps. Also, safety concerns with gas however, fewer moving parts and less electronics to go kerflooey is appealing.
> From some things I've read I am concerned about the durability of Masterbuilt .


I am "old world" smoker...:)...I don't use propane or electric, just an old fashion ceramic "green egg" type BBQ and DIY built cold smoker....anyway, I would personally stay away from charchoal BBQ's and smokers....Reason is: even if you buy the most expensive, natural wood charcoal, it is already burnt at high temp and wood flavor is gone....all you end up with is a lot of carbon after burn...


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## wbf610 (Mar 16, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> Sorry wbf610 but, I haven't quite got the quote thingy worked out :-) .  Isn't there a learning curve for the WSM compared to electric or pellet ?


I didn’t find it that difficult to learn it.  Really simple to set up and adjust. And once its running, it’ll hold steady.


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## wbf610 (Mar 16, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I am "old world" smoker...:)...I don't use propane or electric, just an old fashion ceramic "green egg" type BBQ and DIY built cold smoker....anyway, I would personally stay away from charchoal BBQ's and smokers....Reason is: even if you buy the most expensive, natural wood charcoal, it is already burnt at high temp and wood flavor is gone....all you end up with is a lot of carbon after burn...


Just curious what fuel you use in the egg ?


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## Rathog23 (Mar 16, 2019)

I'll  study the charcoal forum , as well as youtube videos , on the WSM before making a decision.  
 Reliable low tech is a strong selling point.  The MES have many fans on here as well so there is much too think about. I will admit that the Mailbox mod appeals to my sense of humor :-)


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## dernektambura (Mar 16, 2019)

wbf610 said:


> Just curious what fuel you use in the egg ?


wood, old plain hard wood....If I BBQ, I make a fire like I am about to do brontosaurus steak....lol...then when flame fire goes out I have a nice pile of fresh charcoal heat to play with....


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## Rathog23 (Mar 16, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> I am "old world" smoker...:)...I don't use propane or electric, just an old fashion ceramic "green egg" type BBQ and DIY built cold smoker....anyway, I would personally stay away from charchoal BBQ's and smokers....Reason is: even if you buy the most expensive, natural wood charcoal, it is already burnt at high temp and wood flavor is gone....all you end up with is a lot of carbon after burn...


 Isn't that why you add wood chunks on top of the coals ?


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## wbf610 (Mar 16, 2019)

dernektambura said:


> wood, old plain hard wood....If I BBQ, I make a fire like I am about to do brontosaurus steak....lol...then when flame fire goes out I have nice pile of fresh charcoal heat to play with....


I figured as much.

I love my WSM, and just add a few lumps of wood to the charcoal for flavor.


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## SmokinAl (Mar 17, 2019)

I'm a big fan of the WSM!
For the money it can't be beat, both with ease of use & flavor.
Al


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## gmc2003 (Mar 17, 2019)

Another vote for the WSM. Simple, easy to use and there isn't any moving parts going south during a smoking session. Fuel is also readily available basically everywhere. I understand why folks are doing the electric boogaloo and popping pellets, but I'm not at that stage in life. I use my WSM for cold and hot smoking. 

Chris


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## wbf610 (Mar 17, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> I'll  study the charcoal forum , as well as youtube videos , on the WSM before making a decision.
> Reliable low tech is a strong selling point.  The MES have many fans on here as well so there is much too think about. I will admit that the Mailbox mod appeals to my sense of humor :-)


Here’s my story and further thoughts.  I was rushed into buying my first when my gas grill failed us.  I was looking into several units, but had family visiting and needed something asap, and the wife wanted another gas grill as well.  I saw the OK Joes 4 in 1 at the local big box store and thought at least it would serve all functions.  It’s a decent smoker, great gas grill, but left me wanting for a better smoker, especially for long smokes and fuel efficiency.  Found a awesome deal on the MES 40 with blue tooth, and bought it around Christmas that year to do long smokes.  Wife then wanted to get a smoker for her dad.  After some thought, I realized that i could just put smoke to the meat in the OK Joes, and get it to the stall, then wrap and finish in the oven.  So the MES went to the father in law for Christmas.  

After a few cooks, the flavor just wasn’t there on the long smokes I was looking for, and i wanted more bark than i was getting.  I didn’t want something with electric at that point, so I researched here and determined the WSM was the unit I needed, since i already had a charcoal unit, with a sizesble stock pile of coal.  I searched Craigslist, letgo, etc., and found an 18” for $80 and got it.  

After a clean up and test burn, playing with the controls to learn it, I loaded it up for my first overnight smoke on two pork shoulders.  Once stabilized, it ran all night at 225, and the pork was incredible.  Flavor was excellent, and the bark was outstanding.  No wrap, just let it go through the stall as i slept. 

The WSM is a really efficient unit once you learn to control it.  No electric, control units, mother boards, elements,  fans, augers, to mess with or have fail.  Coal is relatively cheap compared to pellets, and to get the best out of a MES, you almost have to buy additional smoke implements to get around using chips in it’s tray, and loading it every 1/2 hour.  I’m not knocking the MES or pellet smokers, they just weren’t what I was looking for at the time.  And if you want gadgets to help you control the WSM, they are available, but not needed for the most part.  

Anyway, do your research and don’t be afraid to continue to ask questions.  

Good luck on your search, and happy St. Patricks Day.


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## texomakid (Mar 17, 2019)

Welcome - Just get a smoker and get cooking! My guess is when the bug bites you'll own more than one cooker (as most of us do......) Hey, I resemble that 230 lbs comment made earlier by someone :(


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## Rathog23 (Mar 17, 2019)

Looked at a lot of WSM vids on youtube last night.  It seems like there is some work initially in getting it started but, once they're warmed up, they're pretty much hands off.    
 And besides, it shares its initials with the Grand Ole Opry radio station. How's that for tradition ?  
 There are a couple on CL here in KCMO but not great deals.


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## wbf610 (Mar 17, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> Looked at a lot of WSM vids on youtube last night.  It seems like there is some work initially in getting it started but, once they're warmed up, they're pretty much hands off.
> And besides, it shares its initials with the Grand Ole Opry radio station. How's that for tradition ?
> There are a couple on CL here in KCMO but not great deals.


Really not that hard to get them started.  Fill the ring with coal, mix in some wood chunks, create a divot in the center, open all three vents.  Start around 15 individual coals in a chimney, and dump them in the divot when they are hot.  Assemble the smoker, and wait for temps to come up.  When it gets 20-30 degrees from target temp, close down the lower vents to 1/4-1/8 open.  I close two completely, and let the third about 1/4 open.  That will hold 225 in mine.


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## hoity toit (Mar 17, 2019)

Welcome aboard.....I have 2 MES 40" and 1 - 30" both electric. There is not a right or wrong smoker, each has it purpose. Find the one that works for you and learn from there. Pro & Cons from electric to gas each has their pluses and minuses although I feel if I lived in a colder climate I would choose propane for faster recovery in cold/cool weather. Good luck and many smokes to ya!

HT


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## noboundaries (Mar 17, 2019)

EVERY smoker has a learning curve. The nice thing about a WSM is you never have to worry about electronics failing, wrong programming, a power failure, etc. Electrics can deliver great tasting Q, but it won't have the depth of flavor of a WSM or a stick burner, but it can get pretty dang close with an AMAZN pellet tray.

With the right briquette charcoal (Royal Oak) in a WSM, it will burn hands off for 12-14 hours before you have to stir to knock off the ash, and burn for 18-20 hours or longer. I bury my wood in the charcoal so it preheats,  burns cleaner, and applies smoke longer. Most folks don't use water in the water pan, choosing nothing, sand, etc. The water pan is just a heat deflector.

If you get one, there are lots of WSM'ers here to help shorten your learning curve. 

It's Spring, and charcoal will be going on sale at any minute. Cheap, and easy to stock up.


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## Rathog23 (Mar 18, 2019)

One thing I wonder about with the WSM is low temp smoking on items such as scallops.  I know you can use the Amazen tube or maze for cold smoke on items such as cheese and nuts.   Can the WSM do around 140 degrees ?
 The more I read and see on youtube about pellet and MES fails, the more attractive the WSM becomes.


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## noboundaries (Mar 18, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> One thing I wonder about with the WSM is low temp smoking on items such as scallops.  I know you can use the Amazen tube or maze for cold smoke on items such as cheese and nuts.   Can the WSM do around 140 degrees ?
> The more I read and see on youtube about pellet and MES fails, the more attractive the WSM becomes.



Yes, but it takes a little practice and a denser briquette like RO or Weber, not the lighter KBB. And you start a full load of cold charcoal with only 3-4 hot briquettes. All lower vents closed and let the smoker SLOWLY come up to temp, like 90 minutes. It will usually stabilize around 125-135F. If the temp starts to climb further, don't be afraid to close down the upper vent a little. That upper vent will make quick changes and only needs to move like 1/8".

I smoke cured beef jerky at 150-165F using the above process. Got a batch marinating as I type.


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## Rathog23 (Mar 19, 2019)

Which brings up the question of how much charcoal is used per cook and the comparable cost between electric and charcoal.   WSMs seem to like Kingsford and the videos I've been looking at look like you use a good part if a bag each time.

 It seems like you have to do a full heat to use a WSM as opposed to being able to just turn an electric on for a short while.


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## texomakid (Mar 19, 2019)

You know Ray is right. You can't beat Charcoal when it comes right down to it. The WSM is a great cooker. I'm fixing to knock the dust off of mine and it's going to get the dog waddle used out of it.


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## noboundaries (Mar 19, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> Which brings up the question of how much charcoal is used per cook and the comparable cost between electric and charcoal.   WSMs seem to like Kingsford and the videos I've been looking at look like you use a good part if a bag each time.
> 
> It seems like you have to do a full heat to use a WSM as opposed to being able to just turn an electric on for a short while.


I can't compare electric to charcoal cost, but I can address charcoal use and cost. 

I've stopped using KBB because the formula changes make it burn faster. A full load of Royal Oak briquettes, about 12-13 lbs in a 22.5" WSM, will burn for about 20 hours at 225F.  That's about $3 worth of charcoal. If you only do a 6 hour smoke, you smother the fire, knock off the ash before the next smoke and reuse the existing charcoal. 

I go thru about 30-60 lbs of charcoal a month in 4-6 WSM smokes of varying lengths and 4-8 grilling sessions on my Kettle. 

I buy my RO charcoal for the year in the Spring when it goes on sale at Lowes for $4 a bag, or about 26 cents a lb. Home Depot will have 2x20 lbs bags of RO on sale come Memorial Day for $9.88, or 25 cents a lb.  

If you only use your smoker a couple times a month, no big deal. If you plan on smoking year round and often, stock up time is right around the corner.


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## Rathog23 (Mar 24, 2019)

Well, I'm sure glad I posted here before buying. I'm leaning more towards the WSM for a bunch of reasons.  For one thing, the bottom can always be used for a basic grill if necessary, either for finishing chicken or in a power outage.

 Cheese and other cold smokes can be done with an amazen smoker tube.


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## Rathog23 (Mar 30, 2019)

Next hurdle. About made my mind up on the WSM but, darlin' wife wants smoked salmon and I've been hearing about the alleged funky odor left behind by some fishies .

 Problem for backyard smokers or just competitors ?


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## gmc2003 (Mar 30, 2019)

No problems with funky odors smoking fish. We do allot of salmon and trout on the WSM. Both cold and hot smoked.

Go for it.
Chris


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## Rathog23 (Mar 31, 2019)

I haven't even bought one smoker yet and I'm already thinking I need 2 :-) . I like the low and slow charcoal capabilities of the WSM but, I think there will be time when an electric would be more convenient for a short smoke, like just a couple of small pieces of salmon for dinner.  Also, it seems more efficient to use an electric for things like cheese and nuts that just take an hour or two rather then heating a whole batch of coals.

 I've considered the Big/Little Chief smokers but, none of the local stores have them in stock and I really want to actually see whatever smoker I get before I buy.   Unfortunately, many of the electrics such as MES and Smoke Hollow seem to have reliability and quality of build problems when i read reviews.


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## Jonok (Mar 31, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> I haven't even bought one smoker yet and I'm already thinking I need 2 :-) . I like the low and slow charcoal capabilities of the WSM but, I think there will be time when an electric would be more convenient for a short smoke, like just a couple of small pieces of salmon for dinner.  Also, it seems more efficient to use an electric for things like cheese and nuts that just take an hour or two rather then heating a whole batch of coals.
> 
> I've considered the Big/Little Chief smokers but, none of the local stores have them in stock and I really want to actually see whatever smoker I get before I buy.   Unfortunately, many of the electrics such as MES and Smoke Hollow seem to have reliability and quality of build problems when i read reviews.



Anybody who’s got any kind of a smoker, and smokes something with it will always produce better product than one who is so concerned about the intricacies and vagaries of the process that he never actually applies smoke to meat....


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## JAEBR29 (Mar 31, 2019)

Well I just bought a second hand wsm and I've felt I'm failing at controlling the temps in it. Its still early but I haven't got to set it and forget it. 
With that said, I'm still 2 for 2 in good food made. And it is kinda fun getting everything all set up for the smoke. Todays smoke was frustrating due to paranoia, but it was also delicious.


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## Rathog23 (Apr 1, 2019)

JAEBR29 said:


> Well I just bought a second hand wsm and I've felt I'm failing at controlling the temps in it. Its still early but I haven't got to set it and forget it.
> With that said, I'm still 2 for 2 in good food made. And it is kinda fun getting everything all set up for the smoke. Todays smoke was frustrating due to paranoia, but it was also delicious.


   Have you studied any of the various videos on youtube regarding temp control on a WSM ?


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## Rathog23 (Apr 6, 2019)

Went with the WSM :-) First will probably be the beginners chicken from TVWB.    As for seasoning, the consensus seems to be to just go ahead and start smoking.


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## Fueling Around (Apr 17, 2019)

Rathog23 said:


> ...
> I've considered the Big/Little Chief smokers but, none of the local stores have them in stock and I really want to actually see whatever smoker I get before I buy.   ...


I've got a Big Chief.  Picked it up from a buddy for $30 and in my opinion that is all they are worth, tops.
There is no temperature control on the heating element.
It is not an effective cold smoker.  I consider it a low temperature cooker-smoker.
If you're looking to only smoke (not cook) fish, it is too hot.  It smokes AND cooks fish.
It melts most cheeses unless you watch the cabinet temperature and unplug the element.
The wood pan will produce billowing clouds of smoke if you use chips. Chunks reduces the smoke, but you don't get thin blue smoke unless you unplug to prevent the chunk from catching fire.
You need a heat resistant table or stand to make it operator friendly.

Now, after I learned the quirks, I have smoked many pork butts in mine.  Couple hours of smoke then moved to either oven or Weber kettle to cook the butt to 200 degrees.


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