# Plastic Bottling BBQ Sauce ????



## smokin-aces (Jun 21, 2013)

First of all, I would like to say, I am very surprised and disappointed in how little information is on the internet about using plastic bottles to store BBQ Sauce. Second, I would like to say, don't try to suggest using Mason jars because I am already doing that. I need to know the proper way of processing and storing BBQ sauce in plastic bottles. I am ignorant to the ways of using plastic bottles to store BBQ Sauce.

My intent is to sell more BBQ sauce than I do now, and plastic bottles is how I want to sell it because they are more convenient and cheaper.

So far the only information I have been able to scrape up is that it needs to be 180-185 degrees when it goes in the bottle. After that it seems like you just put a lid on it. Is it truly that simple? It doesn't seem like that would preserve the sauce at all. Please share your opinions and insight. Thanks!


----------



## cliffcarter (Jun 22, 2013)

Google is your friend-

search for "food grade plastic sauce bottles", the first link to come up should be a source for BBQ sauce bottles specifically.


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 22, 2013)

I've been searching for the last week and haven't found any useful information.


----------



## backwoods bbq (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes, AFTER YOU SANITIZE THE BOTTLES. sorry caps were stuck. Anyway, sanitize you bottles with hot (not boiling water) you can use a simple sanitizer or soap. Leave then in the water while your sauce ic coming to temp. Use gloves, and make sure to buy a good heat shrink seal bands, and safety seal. Then Your good to go just avoid huge extreme temperature shifts.


----------



## fpnmf (Jun 22, 2013)

I dont know what browser you are using..chrome here..

Put this in google...  "using plastic bottles to store BBQ Sauce"

Lots of ways to use plastic bottles and plastic bottles for sale...

  Craig


----------



## kathrynn (Jun 22, 2013)

One can always send links to each other by PM...and no one would be the wiser.

Check on Amazon for the bottles.  There have been several types listed for sale.  I have used them for dyes...for dying fabrics.  Lids closed nicely.

Kat


----------



## fpnmf (Jun 23, 2013)

KathrynN said:


> One can always send links to each other by PM...and no one would be the wiser.
> 
> Kat


I see you have been battering my posts again....Dave..

Arent you supposed to notify before battering???

One hasnt heard yet why this is happening..

        One...aka Craig


----------



## s2k9k (Jun 23, 2013)

fpnmf said:


> One hasnt heard yet why this is happening..
> 
> One...aka Craig



This is happening because the owner of this forum, Jeff Phillips, doesn't want any off site links posted and since he owns the site he can pretty much make any rule he wants!
So now One has heard!


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 23, 2013)

So back to the original topic. Any advice on using plastic bottles to preserve BBQ sauce? I have bought some plastic bottles online and I expect them to be in this week. They come with flip top squeeze lids, but I bought regular black lids with the heat seal (under the lid).  I don't think the shrink wrap will work on these particular bottles because they are oval all the way to the lid. See picture below. 













bottles.jpg



__ smokin-aces
__ Jun 23, 2013






So my questions are as follows:

What temp does the sauce need to be when I bottle it?
How long will the shelf life be?
What is the process for bottling? (just heat sauce and pour then cap the bottle?)
Is there anything I should or should not do?


----------



## fpnmf (Jun 23, 2013)

Put this in google...  "using plastic bottles to store BBQ Sauce"

Lots of ways to use plastic bottles, recipes and plastic bottles for sale...

  Have a Great day!!


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks for the copy and pasted answer, but that still doesn't answer these questions. 


What temp does the sauce need to be when I bottle it?
How long will the shelf life be?
What is the process for bottling? (just heat sauce and pour then cap the bottle?)
Is there anything I should or should not do?
I understand how searching for answers on Google works and at first I stated that I have been searching on Google for the past week and haven't found any detailed information on the process of bottling BBQ using plastic bottles.


----------



## tsin (Jun 23, 2013)

Just my opinion...call your county extension office, I call them for temps and any food related questions, they have recipies and and safety answers..Hope this helps and Good luck on your BBQ sauce business.  Tom


----------



## fpnmf (Jun 23, 2013)

My apologies buddy!!

I went there and found lots of stuff..

I really didnt want to C&P a bunch of stuff but will do some...yer welcome...sheesh...


High acid foods such as fruits and hot sauces are much easier to jar than low acid foods. This is because acid kills bacteria that cause botulism so it is not necessary to kill all of that bacteria prior to canning. If your food has a pH of 4.6 or below, there is enough acid to use this method.

• Sanitize jars or bottles as normal.
• Fill the jars or bottles. Leave as little head space as possible, however make sure that the sauce does not touch the brim of the jar or bottle.
• Seal the jars tightly with the lids.
• Place the jars or bottles at least two inches apart in a pot of 220 degree Fahrenheit boiling water for approximately ten minutes. The water should cover the bottles or jars by at least one inch.
• Carefully remove the bottles or jars from the water and allow them to cool.
 
3




Low Acid foods are a little more complicated because you do not have the benefit of the acid working as a natural preservative. For these you will need a pressure cooker. They make special ones especially for this purpose.

• Sanitize jars or bottles as normal.
• Fill the jars or bottles. Leave as little head space as possible, however make sure that the sauce does not touch the brim of the jar or bottle.
• Seal the jars tightly with the lids.
• Place the jars or bottles at least two inches apart in a pressure cooker containing 2 or 3 inches of water. Follow manufacturer specifications for the pressure cooker. Bring the temperature up to 240 degrees Fahrenheit and maintain for approximately ten minutes.
• Release the pressure from the pressure cooker according to the manufacturer specifications.
• Carefully remove the bottles or jars from the water and allow them to cool.
 
[h1]How to Sterilize Plastic Containers[/h1]
[color= rgb(111, 166, 2)]By Meredith Veto, eHow Contributor[/color]




[h4]Things You'll Need[/h4]
Bleach Alcohol Hot water Microwave Dishwasher UV lamp

​[h2]Instructions[/h2]

1
Wash the container with anti-bacterial dish soap and hot water. The soap will immediately kill surface bacteria but may not guarantee complete sterilization; combining this will another method below is more effective.
2
Use a non-diluted alcohol rinse. Both rubbing alcohol and grain alcohol kill bacteria on plastic surfaces.

3
Soak the plastic container in a bleach-water solution of about 5 to 10 percent bleach. Bleach will not take long to disinfect, so the soaking time is minimal.
4
Heat plastic. This can be done in a hot dishwasher rinse, but more effective is the microwave. Wet the plastic container first, as the interaction between the microwave's heat and water is what causes sterilization. Place the container in a microwave on high power for approximately two minutes. Both the dishwasher and microwave can melt plastic, however. Poloypropylene plastics are strong and withstand high heat.
5
Place plastics under a UV lamp. Ultraviolet sterilization is a safe, non-heated method used widely in food processing, laboratories and water treatment. Although a UV lamp is not the most common kitchen or garden tool, UV lamps are commercially available.

*Making and Bottling Hot Sauce 101 for [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]Beginners[/color]*

This post is for people wishing to make and bottle sauces for personal use or to share with friends and family. Persons wishing to sell their sauces should contact their local health authority and follow their  for proper licensing, permits, insurance, etc. 

Making hot sauces, BBQ sauces and many other types of sauces is a fun and rewarding adventure. The comb  of chiles and flavors are endless so there’s always something for every chilehead tolerance, from gently warming to frying your face off. It’s also a great way to preserve summer’s bounty. 

Let’s start with some definitions-

*Nasties*-
“Nasties” is a term we use when talking about food born pathogens and bacterias that can cause sickness or death and they are the reason for following good processing practices. Some of the most recognized nasties are e-coli, clostridium botulinum which causes botulism, and salmonella. A couple of the widely publicized incidents of food poisoning from e-coli involved undercooked meat from a hamburger chain which resulted in the death of 4 children and sickened hundreds. “But,” you might say, “that was from meat, and e-coli is only in ground beef.” WRONG! Fresh, bagged spinach from California was found to be contaminated with e-coli and that outbreak killed one person and sickened hundreds more. 

Nasties are not to be taken lightly. They are present on fresh produce, they can be on our hands, on the kitchen counter, cutting boards, that sponge that’s been used to wipe the counter and sink for weeks on end and never sanitized… 

If proper sanitation and processing of foods is followed, these pathogen and bacterial risks are neutralized and food is considered shelf stable and safe. If proper procedures are not followed, nasties can grow and the potential for trouble grows right along with it.

“But I’ve been doing it _this way_  for 40 years and never gotten sick.” That may be, but that doesn’t mean that _this way _is correct or safe. These are merely suggestions based on accepted food industry standards, designed to help the home sauce maker make a safe product. Feel free to use or discard these suggestions to suit yourself. 

*pH levels-*
The pH scale is the level of acidity or alkalinity in a product. Without getting all scientific here, basically the lower the pH number, the more acidic the sauce is, and the safer the sauce is. Neutral pH is 7.0. Levels above 7.0 are alkaline, levels below 7.0 are acidic. Target levels for pH in foods intended to be shelf stable are 4.6 and below. 

Some foods like onion, garlic, chiles, sugar, dairy and butter (used in many wing sauces) and most vegetables are considered “low acid”, meaning they do not have very much natural acid in them. When these items are used in sauces they will raise the pH level of the sauce, so other acids like vinegar, lemon or lime juice, and fruits, etc, must be added to the sauce to get the pH back down to a safe level. 

Some foods, like most fruits, especially citrus fruits, some heirloom tomatoes, and vinegars are highly acidic and are used to lower or keep the pH level at save levels. Newer varieties of tomatoes have been bred to be low acid and cannot be counted on to supply acid to a [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]recipe[/color]. Hot [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]Water Bath[/color]  processing used to be an acceptable way to process tomatoes and tomato sauces. That is no longer the case. It is now recommended to pressure can tomatoes and tomato sauces.
More info here- 

Most weekend warriors don’t have a [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]pH tester[/color], or means of accurately testing pH levels of their sauces. In those cases, it’s best to follow approved [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]recipes[/color]  from these links or at least follow the guidelines below for acids:foods ratios. You can substitute any chile for the ones in the recipes to tailor the recipe to your taste or to what you have available.
http://cru.cahe.wsu....395/PNW0395.pdf
http://www.freshpres...om/recipes.aspx
http://www.freshpres...om/recipes.aspx
Your local university extension service will likely have other approved recipes.

*Shelf Stable-*
Making a shelf stable product means processing the food in a way that it is safe to be kept unrefrigerated for an extended period of time. A shelf stable product can be created by getting the pH level low enough that nasties can’t survive or grow by using acids (vinegar, citrus juices), and then packaging it in an oxygen-free environment. Both the hot fill/hold process and the hot water bath process create oxygen-free environments for sauces with pH’s below 4.6. For sauces with a pH above 4.6, the only safe processing method is pressure canning.

*pH 4.6-*
If you have a pH tester or other means of testing pH like litmus strips, pH 4.6 is the cutoff for safe pH levels, however, since this information is for home sauce makers, the target pH level should be at least pH 4.0 or below. That allows for inaccuracies in testing equipment and variations in the natural pH of food items used. pH levels can vary from one batch to another, so targeting pH 4.0 or below will give you a safety margin. Once again, if you do not have an accurate method of testing, it is suggested to follow established recipes in the links above, or the suggested ratios listed below. 

*Wash, Rinse, Sanitize- *
A safe sauce starts with clean equipment and a clean work environment. Wash, rinse, and sanitize everything you will be using including the counter and cutting boards.
*Wash*- hot soapy water
*Rinse*- use fresh hot running water. Don’t use a sink or pot full of water for rinse water. After the first couple items are put into the rinse water, the rinse water gets too much soap in it and then it’s not actually rinsing the soap off the items.
*Sanitize*- for this you can use a sink or pot. Use one of the following methods or products- 
Bleach- use unscented  household bleach, use 1 teaspoon (or 1 capful) bleach per gallon of cool/lukewarm water. Do not use hot water, [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]the heat[/color]  destroys the effectiveness of the bleach. And when using bleach for other cleaning around the house, do not add bleach to a bucket of soapy water, thinking to wash and sanitize all in one step. The soap binds to the bleach and renders it ineffective. Follow the same steps of wash/rinse/sanitize for [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]household cleaning[/color]  as for equipment cleaning.

One more note about bleach- NEVER EVER mix bleach with ammonia or an ammonia based cleaning product. It will create a deadly gas. If this happened in a confined space, it can cause death.

No-Rinse sanitizers- these are available at beer brewing and [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]wine making supply[/color]  houses. Follow manufacturer’s instructions.

Heat Sanitizing-
This method works good for sanitizing bottles, obviously not appropriate for plastic utensils or caps. If using new bottles, rinse the bottles to remove any dust, then put the bottles in the oven at 200F. It’s hard to say how long to keep the bottles in the oven, but the point is to get all the bottles up to 200F. Usually 30 minutes is good enough, but if the bottles are stacked up you may want to check the bottles in the middle of the pile to make sure they are hot. This step can be done ahead of time. Then just turn the oven off and leave the bottles in there until it’s time to process, or remove the bottles and cover to keep clean. 

One Other Note for washing equipment- after wash/rinse/sanitize…air-dry the dishes. Do not use a towel to dry the items.

*Canning processes- pressure canning, hot water bath (HWB), and hot fill/hold*
Pressure canning- this is the least used process. It requires a [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]pressure canner[/color]  and [color= rgb(0, 0, 153)]canning jars[/color]  with metal lids and rings. Manufacturer’s recommendations should be followed when pressure canning. 

Hot Water Bath- This process is sometimes used for preserving sauces. The cooked, heated sauce is put into canning jars and fitted with metal lids and rings. The jars are immersed in water in a large pot or kettle. The jars should be sitting on a metal rack or wire rack to keep them up off the bottom of the kettle. The kettle is brought up to a full rolling boil and kept at a full rolling boil for 15 minutes minimum. The jars are then removed from the kettle and allowed to cool. Check for proper seal on lids when cool.

Here is the Ball canning website with more detailed instructions on both the pressure canning and HWB processes.
http://www.freshpres...g.com/home.aspx

Hot Fill/Hold- This is the most common process for hot sauces. The cooked, heated sauce is put into sterilized sauce bottles, the bottle is capped and immediately inverted and kept inverted for a minimum of 3 minutes. This allows the (180F or greater) sauce to come in contact with the inside of the cap and will sterilize the cap.

*Bottles, Caps and Dropper Tops*
Bottles- The most common sizes are 5 oz, 8 oz, and 10 oz woozy bottles. Sometimes a 1.7 oz woozy is used for samples. The wider mouthed 12 oz sauce bottle is available in a few different styles.

Caps and dropper inserts- most sauces don’t need the dropper insert. Sauces with any kind of pulp don’t work well with the dropper insert. If the sauce is thin enough to warrant a dropper top, order the bottles with the dropper insert and No Liner in the cap. If the sauce does not need the dropper insert, order the caps With the liner. 

Reusing bottles- Good Processing Practices say to only use new bottles and lids. However, I do know sometimes bottles are reused. There is no risk in reusing bottles if they are properly cleaned and sanitized. The risk comes with the lid. NEVER reuse a lid with a liner! Food can get around and under the edge of the liner and can contaminate your hot sauce. If you remove the liner, there is usually a spot of glue on the lid. When heated sauce comes into contact with the glue, the heated sauce will melt the glue into your sauce. Yuck. If the lid you wish to reuse does not have a liner, pay particular attention to any ridges or notches in the lid to make sure the lid is completely clean and sanitized. 

3 of the most popular bottle suppliers are listed below, but there are many other suppliers out there. 


*Equipment-*
Cooking pot- use a stainless steel, glass, un-scratched and un-chipped non-stick, or un-chipped  enamel cooking pot, preferable with a heavy bottom to reduce the risk of scorching. Chipped enamel pots and scratched/chipped non-stick pans should not be used for cooking, bacteria can get into the chipped spots and contaminate the food. Do not use aluminum, cast iron, copper or other reactive pans for sauce making.

Choppers/blenders- any type of blender or food processor is a huge time saver. Use what you have, and wash it really well when done to remove the capsaicin oils. 

Bottling aids- most use a ladle or scoop and funnel or a turkey baster to get the sauce into the bottles. 

Other equipment- just use what you have for spoons, scrapers, whatever, just make sure they are in good condition and properly cleaned.

Gloves-
It’s cool to be all macho and chop up a pound of scorpion pods with your bare hands, but from a food safety point of view, it’s best to wear gloves. Nasties hang out under fingernails and around the cuticles. Cuts and scabs also harbor nasties. Latex, vinyl and nitrile gloves are readily and cheaply available at Wally-World, home improvement stores, and many drug stores. Invest in a box, they are handy to have around the house for more than just chopping chiles. 

Ok, now we can finally get to-
*Making a sauce! *

Gather up your ingredients and supplies, and get creative!

Blender First or Blender Last? Either will work. If you are using a blender or food processor, chopping the ingredients before cooking will give you more, larger bits of pulp in the sauce that won’t break down during cooking as much. Or, the ingredients can be coarse chopped, cooked, and then blendered for a smoother sauce. Using a food mill on a cooked sauce will give you an even smoother sauce with no seeds or pulp. 

Blendering hot foods- if you decide to blender/food processor the sauce after cooking, be VERY CAREFUL when blendering the heated sauce. When you turn on the blender, steam is released and will explode out of the blender if you are not careful. It can hit your hands, arms and even face causing burns. When blendering hot foods, put a clean towel over the blender lid and hold the lid loosely so when the blender is started, the steam can safely escape. If using a food processor, keep the feeding chute open and your hands clear of the chute to allow the steam to safely escape. 

Seeds or No Seeds? It’s all up to you. Use a food mill on cooked sauces to remove all the seeds and pulp for a really smooth sauce.

What kind of vinegar or acid? Once again, it’s up to you! What ever you like! Be aware of the acidity levels of different vinegars if substituting one type of vinegar for another in a recipe. Rice vinegar has a lower acidity level and white vinegar. If rice vinegar is substituted 1:1 in a recipe calling for white vinegar, the recipe won’t have enough acidity. Lemon and lime juice are other common acids that work well in hot sauces. 

Acid ratios- based on several of the approved recipes in the links above, most have an average of 1 cup white vinegar to 10 cups of veggies. However, I’m not a food scientist or process authority. This is just a suggestion based on approved recipes. Different ingredients will effect the finished pH of the sauce. 

How long to cook the sauce? The minimum suggested cooking time is 10 minutes at a full rolling boil. The longer it cooks, the softer the pulp becomes and the thicker the sauce will get. You can simmer it for as long as you want. Keep it stirred so it doesn’t scorch on the bottom. If it gets too thick, add a little water, or other liquid.

So, your sauce is cooked and ready to bottle, now you are at the *Sauce Crossroads*. You can go right to bottling…or…put the sauce in the refer overnight and taste-test it tomorrow to see how the flavors are and if it needs any tweaking. 

*Refer the Sauce-*  if you decide to refrigerate the sauce overnight, put the sauce in a flat pan or shallow bowl so it will chill down quickly. Again, use non-reactive glass, stainless steel or plastic. Don’t just stick the big pot into the refer. This goes for chilling all types of foods, not just sauces, especially things like thick chilies and soups/stews. 

If you do not have a flat pan or room for a flat pan in the refer, use the ice-bath technique. The Ice-Bath Technique- put the pot in a sink or larger pot and fill up around the pot with ice water, up to the level of the sauce in the pot. Stir the sauce regularly and replenish the ice as needed until the sauce is completely chilled. The pot can now be safely put in the refer. See post #16 below for more details regarding cooling temps and cooling times for un-bottled sauces. Those cooling times/temps do not apply to bottled sauces. (edit- Once the heated sauce is in the bottle, a vacuum is created, and the cooling times/temps in post #16 are not applicable. The cooling times/temps in post #16 are for_  un-bottled_sauces and also apply to any other cooking you may be doing...soup, stew, chili....). 
When you are ready to bottle, bring the sauce back up to temp and boil for 10 minutes. Proceed to bottling. 

*Bottling-*
Use a funnel and scoop or measuring cup or a turkey baster to get the heated sauce into the bottles. Immediately cap and invert the bottle for a minimum of 3 minutes. 

The sauce must be at a minimum temp of 180F when bottling. A double boiler set up works well for keeping the sauce hot while bottling. Don’t use the double boiler to get the sauce up to temp, only to keep it at temp while bottling.



So, that’s about it! Now you can sit back and enjoy your creation for months to come. 

Once again, I’m not a process authority or food scientist. These suggestions are offered to help beginning sauce makers create safe foods to share. Anyone selling sauces via any venue should follow their local health authority regulations for proper licensing for their own protection as well as the safety of their customers. 

Hope this helps, now Let's Get Cooking!


----------



## diggingdogfarm (Jun 24, 2013)

[COLOR=#white]...........................[/COLOR]


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks for the input! I think I got what I need now.

Sanitize bottles
Heat sauce to <= 180 degrees
Fill bottles
Immediately cap and invert
The Hot water bath info just didn't seem right because it seems like boiling plastic and cooling it could cause the bottle to deform. Same with putting them in the oven at 200 degrees. Maybe I'm wrong.. 

Does anyone know how the heat induction seal works? Can I just put it inside the lid and when I cap it and invert the bottle will it seal from the heat of the sauce and pressure of the lid? Or does it take a special machine?


----------



## diggingdogfarm (Jun 24, 2013)

[COLOR=#white].......................[/COLOR]


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jun 24, 2013)

Not sure about the laws were you live, but if selling your sauce legally, a HACCP plan would most likely be needed.    In taking the class to obtain your HACCP certificate, all your questions would be answered.  I learned that for the small operator, glass was the way to go.

Tom


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 24, 2013)

Well I am at a point where I want to sell more sauces than I do now, but I do not currently sell enough to justify contracting it out to someone who does this kind of thing. I would think that bottling companies would want thousands of these in order to do it for me. 

So I thought bottling with plastic bottles with a nice label on them would help sell more bottles of sauce. Currently I am using pint Mason jars and writing on the lid what flavor it is. There is no contact info or any catchy graphics. 

I don't think I have to really worry about being "legal" until I sell 10,000 bottles a year.


----------



## diggingdogfarm (Jun 24, 2013)

[COLOR=#white]..........................[/COLOR]


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 24, 2013)

Really? How many did he sell? I guess I should do some more research before I sell too many...

I got the 10,000 number from somewhere that I read that the Nutritional Table doesn't have to be on there unless you sell 10,000 annually. I assumed that meant I didn't need any licenses or certifications either...


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jun 24, 2013)

smokin-aces said:


> Well I am at a point where I want to sell more sauces than I do now
> 
> I don't think I have to really worry about being "legal" until I sell 10,000 bottles a year.


Smokin, you may want to check with your county officials as far as legality.  It is not the quantity of a specific product that counts , but the quality.  It only takes one bad bottle to lose everything you have worked for if you are not properly licensed, bonded and insured.  One thinks, as I that you have a product that will easily sell, but after researching the requirements to do so it may not be feasible.  There are so many things that one takes for granted such as, a company name, labels have to meet government requirement's, bar codes, nutritional facts have to be reached, state and local licenses and a approved manufacturing kitchen among other things and in my case a 2 million dollar bond along with the HACCP certificate.

I am not trying to put a damper on your project, but merely trying to make you aware of what you can look forward to.

Tom


----------



## backwoods bbq (Jun 24, 2013)

My sauce labels hot off the press! 












image.jpg



__ backwoods bbq
__ Jun 24, 2013


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the advice Tom. I will continue to research my local regulations (TN), and see what I need to do. But the game plan for now is to continue selling like I have been to see if volume will justify the cost of the legal approach.

I like the labels Backwoods. Puts me in the mind of a certain TN Whiskey that everyone seems to love... JD.


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jun 25, 2013)

JD, my question would be, can you justify the risk vs. the reward of a small profit.

  When taking surveys of my two products for public input, I simply gave a good supply away.  If supplying a restaurant or bar, I would use their legal kitchens to make the products and then get the opinions from the customers.

It was my intention to have a commercial company can the products as they could do it at a fraction of the cost, and determine from there if resale would be profitable enough to continue and can my own product.  As there are no such companies in Montana, it would be necessary to go out of state.  With the cost of fuel and shipping expenses along with the present political environment, it is impossible for me to continue any further at this time even though all I have to do now is apply for my manufacturing license. 

Another thing to consider is the immense competition among BBQ sauces.  There are a ton of them out there.  In order to make a decent profit, you will undoubtedly have to sell in stores and they will require you to be legal.  

There are those who sell their product under the table whether it be sauces, smoked fish or cheese, but at my age I'm not one to risk everything for a few bucks.  I'd rather give my products as gifts, but that's just me.

If you intend to only bootleg to friends and family, I can only wish you good luck. 

Tom


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 25, 2013)

If you don't mind me asking, approximately how much have you spent in becoming legal? Just so I have a figure in my head to start cost justification.


----------



## backwoods bbq (Jun 25, 2013)

I know in Texas the average start up cost Is $20,000.00 that's why I intend to open a BBQ restaurant or food truck later in life then if it gets big to sell the sauce after I have made a name for myself.


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jun 25, 2013)

smokin-aces said:


> If you don't mind me asking, approximately how much have you spent in becoming legal? Just so I have a figure in my head to start cost justification.


Know I don't mind.  Keep in mind that I live in a somewhat isolated area of the lower US.

Get ready to get nickel and dimed by everyone you meet.

The prices are off the top of my head.

*Required registered and copyrighted company name and logo.*   Mine, Mr.T's [emoji]174[/emoji]  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






[emoji]169[/emoji]    $50.00 each.

*Bar codes*,  $50 each.  Most stores will not accept products these days without a bar code.  Helps with inventory and speeds up checkout.

*Nutritional information*.  $100. THe cost could be higher depending on what lab does it.  Will have to send a couple samples of your finished product the way you intend to sell it.

*Label design *- Depends on design time and state requirements as to letter height and placement.

*Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Plan *certificate cost me almost $1000 as I had to add motel cost and fuel to the initial cost of $400 for the four day class.

*State and local license's *I'm not sure of the cost at this time so won't even guess. 

You will have to deal with the local and state health inspectors along with the FDA and if selling across state lines the USDA inspectors also.  They will be wanting to see your up to the minute HACCP sheet for each batch you make.  Another few reasons to hire your canning done by a contractor.

Hope this gives you an idea of what to expect.  Any more questions, please ask.

Tom


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 27, 2013)

Thank you Mr. T! So a little more than $2000 total. That seems somewhat expensive just to get started.

I was calling around for local bottling plants that can bottle, label, and perform nutritional tests on sauces, and I found one on Memphis called ICA. I came across it on a Google search that took me to a BBQ Forum..

They have a minimum batch of only 30 gallons (~240 16 oz bottles). They send the confidentiality form so I know they won't steal or sell my recipe. I mail it back after I fill it out and sign it, with the recipe and sauce I want them to make. Then they will make the sauce according to the recipe and tweak the new batch to taste like mine (since they use fresh ingredients that are stronger in flavor). After they get it as close as possible, they send a bottle of the new batch and my original back so I can taste it and tell them yay or nay. Upon my approval, they process the batch I want. Whether it is 30 gallons or 3000 gallons (or more). I was told by the lady I spoke to that she has never seen a sauce they manufacture be completed for less than $2 per bottle and never seen one go for more than $5 per bottle. And this price includes the manufacturing, bottling, and labeling of the bottles. Also, they assume all responsibility for the sauce. So if someone gets sick, they are responsible and not me. 

This keeps me from having to go through most of the things mentioned above by Mr. T. 

Also, they supposedly bottled Myron Mixon's first bottle of BBQ sauce..


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jun 28, 2013)

Sounds like the way to go with minimum expense.   It will give you a idea as to how your product will sell while relieving you from a lot of worry.

Keep us up to date on your experience.

Tom


----------



## dls1 (Jun 28, 2013)

I agree with Mr T.

The $2,000 expense is minimal and before you even start producing and bottling a meaningful amount of product. You could easily double or triple that figure.

What you're looking for is known as a *"Co-Packer"*, and in particular, one that is focused on sauces. It sounds as if that's what ICA in Memphis might be, though I've never heard of one with a minimum batch that low. One that I have a little familiarity with is Endorphin Farms, Inc. in St. Augustine, FL. They may not be the one for you, but you should check out their site, especially the FAQs, to get an idea of the process and costs. I would post the link to their site but from what I've read recently on the forum, that appears to be forbidden.

Good Luck.


----------



## chef willie (Jun 28, 2013)

Lot of info being passed here and some is redacted (sp) or missing. I checked into this here in Oregon about 8-10 years ago. I had to contact the USDA and have the Fed come down and check my 'facility' where I was going to be doing this. Labels and such HAD to approved by the Fed, ingredients listed in a very specific way etc etc. You will be considered a manufacturer, no matter how small. The biggest PITA was I had to send actual product in containers that would be for sale to a food testing lab for bacteria tests, PH levels and whatever else they demanded. Now, that was in Portland so not to big of a hassle but it was expensive and they wanted 2-3 of each type or flavor etc especially if they had different ingredients. I did have the lab work done, I was curious about shelf life anyway. Along with others I sent them a jar I had laying around for about a year that was really just hot-packed in a Mason jar and surprisingly (to me) it tested fine. You will also need product liability insurance no matter how little you sell in case somebody claims they got sick using your sauce. I, personally, would become a LLC so if sued I wouldn't lose my house, cars, boats etc to some sue happy customer with an attorney working on percentage. You have dodged a bullet so far and many will say they have done it for years with no issues but the minute you start selling to the public you are at risk...seriously. I totally agree with the above poster to start with your County Health inspectors for guidance.....Willie


----------



## s2k9k (Jun 28, 2013)

I don't know anything about this stuff but I agree with what Willie and others have said. All it would take is for someone to cook their pork butt wrong, put your sauce on it, get sick, blame the sauce and hire a lawyer!


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 28, 2013)

I agree with the two above posts. But from what I understand from the "Co-Packer", they assume all responsibility for anything could go wrong with the sauce. For instance, someone does get sick and sues, they are responsible. I will read the confidentiality contract and make sure before I commit to anything. 

They have been around for 30+ years, so I think they have it figured out. Also, I think they have a lab to determine Nutritional Facts and list ingredients. I will learn all this before I sign my life away to 30 gallons of sauce!


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 28, 2013)

I just like the idea of them making the sauce, bottling, and labeling it so I can be legal and legit if I sell it in local restaurants or stores.


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jun 29, 2013)

smokin-aces said:


> I just like the idea of them making the sauce, bottling, and labeling it so I can be legal and legit if I sell it in local restaurants or stores.


Now, it sounds like you are on the right track.  Get with your co-packer and find out what will be needed on your part. Hopefully you can find one nearby in order to lower your shipping and distribution cost.  Ask them for the name of a label designer who is knowledgeable with the state and federal guidelines and work on your label.

Good luck and keep us up to date, go or no go on your project.

Tom.


----------



## smokin-aces (Jun 29, 2013)

Yeah, this seems like the most feasible approach to selling BBQ sauce publicly. 30 gallons will make approximately 240 16 oz bottles and they will run anywhere from $2-$5 a piece. So that't a total of $480-$1200. And they would be able to make as many as I want them to once we determine an acceptable flavor. 

Currently I am waiting on the confidentiality form to come in the mail. Then I will send that back with my recipe and a sample of my sauce. Then we wait until they contact me. Could be a couple weeks, could be a month. Oh, and I don't pay anything until they make the batch. The process of nailing down the flavor costs me nothing.


----------



## smokin-aces (Jul 3, 2013)

I received the confidentiality contract in the mail the other day. I am going to let a friend of mine look at it who has more business knowledge than I do (he has an MBA and a degree in entrepreneurship). So after he looks it over and lets me know if it looks solid and safe then I will sign it and send it back with my recipe and sample of my sauce. Then they will match the sauce they make with my recipe. I will sample the finished product and upon my approval, they will make the 30 gallon batch. Then I will try to sell all the bottles to re coop my investment while hopefully growing the business. 

Hopefully everything will work out as planned. In the mean time, I bought a 36 quart deep fryer from Bass Pro today. The oil bucket has a spout so I had the idea of using it to make more sauce and can it. Has anyone ever done this before?


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jul 4, 2013)

smokin-aces said:


> I received the confidentiality contract in the mail the other day. I am going to let a friend of mine look at it who has more business knowledge than I do (he has an MBA and a degree in entrepreneurship). So after he looks it over and lets me know if it looks solid and safe then I will sign it and send it back with my recipe and sample of my sauce. Then they will match the sauce they make with my recipe. I will sample the finished product and upon my approval, they will make the 30 gallon batch. Then I will try to sell all the bottles to re coop my investment while hopefully growing the business.
> 
> Sounds like you are on a roll.
> 
> ...


----------



## frosty (Jul 4, 2013)

Wow, the complexities of sellin a little ole' bottle of sauce!

Good luck with it!

Happy Independence day!!!


----------



## rdknb (Jul 4, 2013)

Also get the proper trademarks and copyrights so someone else can't steal your ideas.


----------



## mr t 59874 (Jul 4, 2013)

Frosty said:


> Wow, the complexities of sellin a little ole' bottle of sauce!
> 
> Good luck with it!
> 
> Happy Independence day!!!


Yes,  the next time a dinner guest say's "Your sauce is wonderful, you should sell it."  Ask them if they would be willing to finance you?

Happy 4th.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Tom


----------



## smokin-aces (Jul 7, 2013)

I guess I am going to try to start selling my sauce at local farmers markets. If it is successful there I will try to mass produce and sell to local stores. I am still going forward with this co-packer idea since it is such a long process.

I appreciate all the input. Hopefully this sauce can be taken to the next level...


----------



## mikewysuph (Oct 22, 2013)

Bump for an update!


----------



## smokin-aces (Jan 5, 2014)

I have since started selling my sauces in glass bottles. I was able to create my own brand name and logo. I have professional labels on the bottles and 5 unique grilling sauces and a hot sauce. The sauce business has potential in the long term, but my catering business brings in more money on the short term. I am going to pursue the catering business while pushing the sauce business until I have the capital to become a certified sauce manufacturer.


----------

