# Foil or not foil or brown butcher paper?



## HalfSmoked

I know a lot of what we do is personal preference and as long as its what you like that's fine. My question is why do you do it the way you do and why? I've seen on here where some do this way then they change and do it another and swear that its the better way to do it. Not looking for knock down drag out comments just why you do it that way maybe you feel better flavor or not as dry etc.


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## chef jimmyj

Straight Smokin' gives the most flavor but takes time and fuel. Foiling cuts down on cook time and tendrizes more but without doing the dance of smoking-foiling-unwrap and smoke some more, you loose some Bark texture. Paper is kind of a compromise. Has " some " of the speed advantage of foiling but also let's more smoke in with only some bark softening. No one BEST way to do it. What you use depends on how much Time you have to spend cookin and the Attributes of Q you value most...JJ


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## HalfSmoked

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Straight Smokin' gives the most flavor but takes time and fuel. Foiling cuts down on cook time and tendrizes more but without doing the dance of smoking-foiling-unwrap and smoke some more, you loose some Bark texture. Paper is kind of a compromise. Has " some " of the speed advantage of foiling but also let's more smoke in with only some bark softening. No one BEST way to do it. What you use depends on how much Time you have to spend cookin and the Attributes of Q you value most...JJ


Thanks for the reply JJ I personally never wrap anything just my way.

Warren


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## sfprankster

Awwwww....

The $50,000 question...


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## SmokinAl

Your going to get a lot of opinions on this.

My advice is to try them all & decide what is best for you & your family!

Al


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## HalfSmoked

Thanks sfprankster and Al for looking like I said I never wrap just wanted to see others comments.

Warren


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## daricksta

I just a delivery of pink butcher paper I bought off Amazon. I've tried foiling both ribs and briskets but the bark turned out way too soft. I don't like totally naked smoking (the meat I mean) because the bark turns out to thick for my family's tastes. I'm Goldilocks hoping that Baby Bear's pink butcher paper wrap turns out to be just right.


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## phatbac

Since i have been using my lang i dont wrap anything. I found this good until i decided to to tinker with a rack of babies. Made fotb ribs without mushy overcooked ribs. Since i now have a family member with dentures i will do this more often. Tomorrow im doing a brisket and im going to use parchment paper. Otherwise for pork chicken etc no wrap for the sizzle adv of my smoker. If i use my wsm bullet i would wrap as normal. (165 IT) 

I have only wrapped in paper once before and i didnt do well cooking the brisket ( undercooked dry and tough) im trying again to see how i like the results.

Happy Smoking,
phatbac(Aaron)


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## hardcookin

I do use both ways, a lot depends on the temp I am smoking @. And the amount of meat I am Smoking.

JJ had an excellent post.


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## daricksta

Just got a delivery of 24"x150' pink butcher paper today from Amazon. Never liked the results of foiling. Smoking pork ribs or beef brisket results in heavier and rougher bark than my family likes. Looking forward to trying out the paper in my MES 30.


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## jted

HalfSmoked said:


> I know a lot of what we do is personal preference and as long as its what you like that's fine. My question is why do you do it the way you do and why? I've seen on here where some do this way then they change and do it another and swear that its the better way to do it. Not looking for knock down drag out comments just why you do it that way maybe you feel better flavor or not as dry etc.


Hi, Warren I am like you,  I don't foil unless I have to . Several weeks ago da Ricksta and I had this same conversation. I sent him a link where Aaron Franklin smoked 3 *biscuits*  and he and another chef checked them out It was informative. Jted


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## smokeymose

We like to foil a bit, especially with ribs. We both like FOTB ribs and really aren't that enthused about bark (tired old teeth). I'm thinking about ordering some pink paper for brisket..
Dan


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## daricksta

jted said:


> Hi, Warren I am like you,  I don't foil unless I have to . Several weeks ago da Ricksta and I had this same conversation. I sent him a link where Aaron Franklin smoked 3 *biscuits*  and he and another chef checked them out It was informative. Jted



I hadn't watched this video before so catching up now. I just bought a 14 lb. USDA prime whole brisket packer from Costco yesterday. My plan is to slice the half with the point off and smoke that using the butcher paper I just got. I wish I had to ET-733s because that's what's preventing me from smoking both the point and the flat on two separate racks since I only have two probes. A send Maverick will be on my birthday presents wishlist at the end of the year. Anway, I plan to smoke the flat naked when its time comes in my MES 30. In any event I'm done with foiling.


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## r2 builders

Would the white paper the butchers use work for wrapping a brisket?


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## smokeymose

r2 Builders said:


> Would the white paper the butchers use work for wrapping a brisket?


I don't think so. Go with the pink stuff.


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## r2 builders




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## r2 builders

That's what I thought.
Thanks for the feedback.
I did see one post that said paper from a brown paper bag might work.
What do you think on that?
I guess I am trying to avoid buying a massive roll of butcher paper.


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## daricksta

r2 Builders said:


> Would the white paper the butchers use work for wrapping a brisket?


The white stuff has an inner plastic lining. That's why the pink paper is preferable, pal. (Just keeping my alliteration theme going.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





)

r2 Builders, I don't see why a regular paper bag wouldn't work other than it might not be "food" quality, whatever that designation means for wrapping meat in a smoker. The butcher paper I bought off Amazon didn't really absorb the brisket juices any better, which was really not much at all. Wrapping a brisket really serves just to goose it a bit more quickly past the stall, and to protect the bark if you're Aaron Franklin and slinging briskets across a hot grill half-a-day long, every day. I like to finish my briskets unwrapped to firm up the bark to the texture I want when the brisket's done.

I paid a total of $53 for my butcher off Amazon. It may appear pricey but it's a 24" x 150' roll and will last me quite a few years since I won't be using it a lot.


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## smokeymose

I got mine from Amazon as well. 18"x150' was around $35. They were out of stock on 24" at the time. Works for me since only use it for briskets and I do the smaller ones so it should last for a while. You'll notice they call it Peach a lot of places.


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## r2 builders

That was a lot of feedback thanks all!
I was reading Steven Raichlen book "Project Smoke" and in his brisket recipe at a certain temperature he wraps in butcher paper.
So I thought I would give it a try.


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## daricksta

r2 Builders said:


> That was a lot of feedback thanks all!
> I was reading Steven Raichlen book "Project Smoke" and in his brisket recipe at a certain temperature he wraps in butcher paper.
> So I thought I would give it a try.


I haven't seen that book or that series. I've got a bunch of Raichlen books and a DVD set of his first PBS show. When I was at a Portland, OR bookstore I checked out Aaron Franklin's book and I've watched a few of his YouTube videos. He has one where he did a naked brisket, a foiled brisket, and a paper-wrapped brisket. I think the paper-wrapped beat out the others for quality of bark by a hair. In his book he said he wraps the brisket to protect the bark. When it comes to pork ribs he rarely wraps at all.


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## daricksta

SmokeyMose said:


> I got mine from Amazon as well. 18"x150' was around $35. They were out of stock on 24" at the time. Works for me since only use it for briskets and I do the smaller ones so it should last for a while. You'll notice they call it Peach a lot of places.


I got the 24" x 150' because I felt it would be better to have the extra width for when it's needed than to not have it when needed. I only used it once last summer, though.


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## 3montes

I've been tempted to try the brown butcher paper wrap on a brisket but I just haven't done it yet. I have a huge roll of the brown peach paper just waiting. I'm pretty much a straight forward wood, fire, food guy. I burn oak and apple splits to provide the heat and smoke. Ribs don't get foiled nor does brisket. I do pan my pork butts at 165 but that's because I can't stand to listen to all those great juices sizzling off my tuning plates as they render out of the butts.I want those juices so I keep them in the pan. I will sometimes place a foil tent over the butts if I need to give them a little push through the stall.

I use to foil everything, have all sorts of wires running out of my smoker thinking I needed to know the temp of the smoker and the meat from the very start to the very end. I can tell you I enjoy the process and the end result much more since I went back to just basic, simple smoking food. I can say I have never once injected a single piece of meat with anything. I always figured if you punch a hole in a piece of meat to put juice in it will run out the same hole! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 I have always been able to achieve the flavor profile I want through rubs and or brines.


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## r2 builders

Ok,
Im probably beating this thread to a pulp (pardon the pun) what about parchment paper which I have on hand.
Any takers on that?


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## daricksta

3montes said:


> I've been tempted to try the brown butcher paper wrap on a brisket but I just haven't done it yet. I have a huge roll of the brown peach paper just waiting. I'm pretty much a straight forward wood, fire, food guy. I burn oak and apple splits to provide the heat and smoke. Ribs don't get foiled nor does brisket. I do pan my pork butts at 165 but that's because I can't stand to listen to all those great juices sizzling off my tuning plates as they render out of the butts.I want those juices so I keep them in the pan. I will sometimes place a foil tent over the butts if I need to give them a little push through the stall.
> 
> I use to foil everything, have all sorts of wires running out of my smoker thinking I needed to know the temp of the smoker and the meat from the very start to the very end. I can tell you I enjoy the process and the end result much more since I went back to just basic, simple smoking food. I can say I have never once injected a single piece of meat with anything. I always figured if you punch a hole in a piece of meat to put juice in it will run out the same hole!
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> I have always been able to achieve the flavor profile I want through rubs and or brines.


You're really old school. I'm moving more towards that direction. I bought the butcher paper before I read about guys like you and Franklin who don't wrap much. I've smoked one pork shoulder and left it on the rack. I might experiment more with panning next year (I only smoke after winter is long gone, except for cheeses and beef jerky) Jeff Phillips likes to finish his brisket in a pan. I'm still working out what technics to try out next.

I don't do the injection thing either, mainly because good quality injectors are expensive for what they are. I'm all about dry rubs but have only brined once. I plan to do more of that with turkey, chicken, and salmon next year. My ultimate goal: to brine a brisket as a precursor to trying my hand at homemade Jewish deli pastrami--sliced thin and piled high on Kosher rye bread with a schmear of Russian dressing, dill pickles on the side.


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## daricksta

r2 Builders said:


> Ok,
> Im probably beating this thread to a pulp (pardon the pun) what about parchment paper which I have on hand.
> Any takers on that?


My wife's an experienced home baker. she assured me parchment paper won't work. I think that's primarily because it has a plastic, non-stick liner, and is thinner than butcher paper. after she finishes baking in the oven it's always reduced to browned, crispy paper. Not what you want to wrap smoking meat inside of. Parchment paper's main function, from my understanding, is to provide a virtually non-stick baking vessel for savory and sweet baked dishes made from dough.


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## smokeymose

All I use parchment for is to cover the counter while stuffing or slicing just to make the counter easier to clean up.
Give brining a try,  daRicksta. It's really easy and once you've made your own Corned Beef & Pastrami you'll never want to pay $11 a lb again...
Dan


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## r2 builders

Butcher paper it is then.
Thanks for all the help.
I will update as I go along.
Friday is brisket day!


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## chef jimmyj

r2 Builders said:


> Butcher paper it is then.
> Thanks for all the help.
> I will update as I go along.
> Friday is brisket day!


Just a note, Butcher Paper makes a great Table Cover for Picnics, Crab, Clam and Lobster Boils and Crafts. No washing, just roll up everything and toss it. I had a roll stolen by the Kids for drawing and painting. As they got older, they made giant Happy Birthday and Holiday signs. Most recently my Wife used up a roll wrapping dishes and other items before boxing for our move. It absorbs grease so I drain Fried food on butcher paper. My SIL uses it as a small drop cloth for laying out items to spray paint or to mask off larger areas to paint. He also likes to keep dirty parts and tools off the work surface and lays them on butcher paper. You would be surprised how many uses you can find for a Roll...JJ


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## daricksta

r2 Builders said:


> Butcher paper it is then.
> Thanks for all the help.
> I will update as I go along.
> Friday is brisket day!


r2 builders, remember this:
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Have you ever smoked brisket burnt ends?


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## daricksta

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Just a note, Butcher Paper makes a great Table Cover for Picnics, Crab, Clam and Lobster Boils and Crafts. No washing, just roll up everything and toss it. I had a roll stolen by the Kids for drawing and painting. As they got older, they made giant Happy Birthday and Holiday signs. Most recently my Wife used up a roll wrapping dishes and other items before boxing for our move. It absorbs grease so I drain Fried food on butcher paper. My SIL uses it as a small drop cloth for laying out items to spray paint or to mask off larger areas to paint. He also likes to keep dirty parts and tools off the work surface and lays them on butcher paper. You would be surprised how many uses you can find for a Roll...JJ


Thanks for the ideas, Chef JimmyJ! I've got an 150' roll which is more than I'm ever going to need in my lifetime. I don't break out the smoker nearly as often as a lot of other members here.


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## daricksta

SmokeyMose said:


> All I use parchment for is to cover the counter while stuffing or slicing just to make the counter easier to clean up.
> Give brining a try, daRicksta. It's really easy and once you've made your own Corned Beef & Pastrami you'll never want to pay $11 a lb again...
> Dan


SmokeyMose, you'll just firmed up my resolve. Costco sells USDA Prime whole packer briskets for around $3/lb. Got one of those 16 lb. beauties in my freezer. I'm not a big fan of corned beef but some of that brisket will become my first batch of pastrami, Katz Deli (out of Brooklyn)-style.


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## smokeymose

daRicksta said:


> SmokeyMose, you'll just firmed up my resolve. Costco sells USDA Prime whole packer briskets for around $3/lb. Got one of those 16 lb. beauties in my freezer. I'm not a big fan of corned beef but some of that brisket will become my first batch of pastrami, Katz Deli (out of Brooklyn)-style.



Thumbs Up


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## r2 builders

Hey All,
I am smoking a brisket today and would like some advice.
There only two of us so I got 4 pounder.
Here are my parameters:

4 pound brisket.Trimmed the fat cap to 1/4"
Seasoned with garlic oil, cracked pepper and salt
30" 2 door propane smoker. 
Ambient temp will be around 78 degrees.
Water pan with a beer and water mix.
Cherry or apple chunks in a CO skillet.
Planning on taking it 175 degrees IT then pull it out and wrab in butcher paper. 
Back into the smoker till IT hits 200 degrees.
Wrap in towels and into the cooler.

Thats my plan.
Looking for feedback


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## r2 builders

Forgot to ask what you think the time frame would be  for all this?


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## smokeymose

Not knowing how hot the smoker will be, I'm going to guess 3 to 4 hrs but THAT IS A GUESS! I used to run a smoker like that and it ran hot. Keep a close eye on it from about 2 hrs. Thickness of the meat makes a difference, too.
Good Luck!
[emoji]128578[/emoji]


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## r2 builders

Thank you Sir.
My smoker does run hot.
The lowest temp I can hold is around 240/ 250.
I had figured around 4 hours as well.
I will let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again.


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## r2 builders

Didn't do well with brisket.


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## mike5051

Just came across this post.  Try posting in the "beef" section for more help.  What was wrong with the brisket?  If it was tough and dry, probably undercooked.  Overcooked would be crumbling apart, but usually still juicy.

Mike


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## chef jimmyj

mike5051 said:


> Just came across this post.  Try posting in the "beef" section for more help.  What was wrong with the brisket?  If it was tough and dry, probably undercooked.  Overcooked would be crumbling apart, but usually still juicy.
> 
> Mike


X2...I suspect it was Tough and Dry...aka Undercooked. This many hours or that IT don't mean Doo-Doo, if the Brisket is not Probe Tender, probe slides in with no resistance. IT could be 195, 200, 205 or even 210. At 250+ an hour per pound is a guideline but the Probe Test tells you it's done...JJ


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## daricksta

r2 Builders said:


> Didn't do well with brisket.


Spill the beans! Details, man! We've all been there. Let us know what happened. The great news is that there are always briskets to buy for more opportunities to practice and perfect.


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## r2 builders

So if you read at the top of the thread you can see all the parameters about my smoker and my concept for the brisket. 
I ran the smoker at mid 230's and let the wood chunks burn off the heavy smoke before the brisket went in.
IT started out at 57 degrees and climbed steady for around 3 hours.
I got concerned about time as it was taking longer than I thought it would so I turned the smoker temp up to 250.
IT climbed a little faster to eventually hitting 160 and began to stall which I was anticipating. 
Waited for the IT to reach 195 then pulled the brisket out to wrap in butcher paper. 
Then I couldn't get the probe back into  the the brisket where I thought it should be (I should have left the probe in and wrapped the paper around it) Then I was uncertain about the temp being accurate and from that point I think everything went south. 
The brisket was tough and dry.
I have to give props to my Mother in law who bravely ate what was on her plate.
That is the saga.
Im sticking to ribs and poultry.


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## daricksta

r2 Builders said:


> So if you read at the top of the thread you can see all the parameters about my smoker and my concept for the brisket.
> I ran the smoker at mid 230's and let the wood chunks burn off the heavy smoke before the brisket went in.
> IT started out at 57 degrees and climbed steady for around 3 hours.
> I got concerned about time as it was taking longer than I thought it would so I turned the smoker temp up to 250.
> IT climbed a little faster to eventually hitting 160 and began to stall which I was anticipating.
> Waited for the IT to reach 195 then pulled the brisket out to wrap in butcher paper.
> Then I couldn't get the probe back into the the brisket where I thought it should be (I should have left the probe in and wrapped the paper around it) Then I was uncertain about the temp being accurate and from that point I think everything went south.
> The brisket was tough and dry.
> I have to give props to my Mother in law who bravely ate what was on her plate.
> That is the saga.
> Im sticking to ribs and poultry.


Just found the post! How much did the brisket weigh? I do the same thing you do: boost the temp if I think it's taking too long to fully smoke the brisket, making dinner time way too late. Only once have I smoked a brisket overnight. But please--don't fear the brisket! I've made one perfect one, and a few almost but not quite as good, and some that stunk on ice. The mistake I made last time was unwrapping the brisket from the butcher paper only to have all that built up grease spill out onto me and the ground. That won't happen again. I did keep the probe in, though. But even if I pull it out I find a similar place to reinsert it. That can be difficult when you stick it in the brisket and the temp starts falling. I like to smoke a brisket to about 201-203°F IT.  Anyway, the flat turned out overcooked because it was smallish and thin but the burnt ends from the point were incredibly good. Also, if you have the time to place the finished brisket in a cooler for a few hours, it really enhances the meat. Practice makes perfect, r2 builders. Oh, my wife pays me the same compliment that your mother pays you. But she also lets me know if it's too smoky or just right and I usually agree with her.


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## r2 builders

So if you read at the top of the thread you can see all the parameters about my smoker and my concept for the brisket. 
I ran the smoker at mid 230's and let the wood chunks burn off the heavy smoke before the brisket went in.
IT started out at 57 degrees and climbed steady for around 3 hours.
I got concerned about time as it was taking longer than I thought it would so I turned the smoker temp up to 250.
IT climbed a little faster to eventually hitting 160 and began to stall which I was anticipating. 
Waited for the IT to reach 195 then pulled the brisket out to wrap in butcher paper. 
Then I couldn't get the probe back into  the


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## r2 builders

Thanks for the response. 
The Brisket was a 4 pound flat with a good 1/4" fat cap.
I pulled it 195 then wrapped and back in. I think the issue was when I couldn't get the probe back in I had no reference point to gauge the IT, so I just winged it to what I thought would be enough time to be right.
I didnt unwrap when it came out of the smoker and let it rest in a cooler for an hour or less.


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## tbrtt1

I waxed philosophical about wrapping brisket in this thread- post #26 http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/250599/need-brisket-help/20#post_1599757

First off , r2 on your brisket: it is generally accepted that if brisket is tough then it ain't done enough. Dry or not, tough usually means undercooked. You were right to be concerned with probe placement. I use a Thermopop to check the areas of the flat to determine where to put the cooking probe in after I wrap. Where I get he lowest reading on my Thermopop is where I place the cooking probe. The Thermopop is fast to read so it is easy to check for the cooler spots on the flat. Once you have that mastered you are in good shape for a properly cooked brisket.

Also, as mentioned in the link for my previous post, I don't wrap at a certain temp. I wrap when I get respectable bark. Once you get good bark to set, wrapping is fine and will still maintain decent bark. Obviously, no wrap will give you heavier bark, but you can have your cake and eat it too if you wrap after bark is set.

To the OP: I was a non-wrapper that now wraps most things. However, I don't wrap like a lot of folks. I always wait to achieve good bark first. Briskets get pink butcher paper. Foil is fine but you may have to get more bark before you wrap to maintain decent bark for the end product. For ribs I only warp for 30-45 mins, for both Babies and spares/SLCs. This seems to help tenderize and moisten but not result in mushy ribs. Butts get foiled after a hearty bark has set.

FWIW, a lot of comp Q-ers wrap to keep the meat from getting too smokey.


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## HalfSmoked

put something under the meat like Gary s bake beans the dripping makes them great.

Warren


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## HalfSmoked

Hey JJ I haven't been on in a while where did you and when did you make your move?

I get end rolls of news print from local news paper for table covers and most all the things you mention don't think it would work for smoking you think it would. Of course I don't wrap anyway.

Warren


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