# Masterbuilt 30" Smoker no longer heating.



## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Hey guys, 

Over the weekend when I was prepping to smoke a brisket, I discovered that my Masterbuilt 30" (Model 20071117) no longer heats up.

I removed the only access panel on the rear of the smoker to find the wires for the heating element. Wires and terminals look to be in excellent condition.

The element is an 800W element. Following Ohm's Law I found the element should be giving a reading of ~18 ohms. After checking with my multimeter I can confirm it is giving a reading of 18.2 Ohms.

At this point I'm not sure what else to check. Any ideas?

Thanks.


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## radioguy (Jul 13, 2020)

Check fuses, switch and any safety cutoffs.

RG


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Where are these at on this smoker? The smoker is definitely getting power, as I can use the control panel just fine, but setting the temp on it does not seem to work as the heating element never kicks on.


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## Brokenhandle (Jul 13, 2020)

MES Rewire Simple Guide - No Back Removal Needed!!!
					

Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.  Disclaimer:  When messing with electrical equipment...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				




Give this a look, and see if it helps

Ryan


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## Brokenhandle (Jul 13, 2020)

Down a ways it shows a plate pop riveted on the bottom of smoker, there is a safety roll out switch there. Not sure if same on yours but a place to start

Ryan


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Ryan, thanks.

Placed it on a table and found that panel is actually screwed on on mine. Opened it up and came across this sight (note red was barely hanging on, it had corroded away. Black was still firmly attached. Unsure where to go from here besides clean the terminals, attach hi-temp spades and pray that works?


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## tallbm (Jul 13, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> Ryan, thanks.
> 
> Placed it on a table and found that panel is actually screwed on on mine. Opened it up and came across this sight (note red was barely hanging on, it had corroded away. Black was still firmly attached. Unsure where to go from here besides clean the terminals, attach hi-temp spades and pray that works?
> 
> ...



Hi there and welcome!

Good find.  
#1 failure point on the MES is the horrible spade connectors corroding away like yours did. 
Get some hi temp stainless steel  spades on the wire and hook back up and hope.
Chances are that other spade connectors on your system are corroding but let's hope this fixes it and have extra connects just in case.

If you do not have a 2nd panel on the BACK of the MES then you do not have access to the safety rollout limit switch which often has it's connectors corrode.  To get to that safety switch when u have no panel means u have to drill out the rivets (if u have rivets) on the back and pull the back up/off and get to the switch that way.  If this happens I suggest u cut a panel into the back so u can always get back to it without having to pull the back off.

You replace the back with self tapping sheet metal screws and u are good to go.

Let us know how this adventure goes and if fixing those connectors doesn't work we can help you out and if you need to rewire and buy an Auber PID controller just know that your MES would then run 10X better than it ever did brand new :)


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## Brokenhandle (Jul 13, 2020)

Follow what 

 tallbm
  says...anything I have learned has come from him. He helped me with getting my pid and getting it set up. Turned my mes 30 into a way better smoker!

Ryan


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Thanks guys. Attached new connectors and still no luck :(

I'll pull the back off tomorrow. Drill battery is charging so I can drill out the rivets. Is there a way to test the rollout switch?

Thanks!


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## tallbm (Jul 14, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> Thanks guys. Attached new connectors and still no luck :(
> 
> I'll pull the back off tomorrow. Drill battery is charging so I can drill out the rivets. Is there a way to test the rollout switch?
> 
> Thanks!



Well kind of.
The switch is a normally closed switch so when u check the connectors and if they need replacing then the smoker should heat up IF the element connectors are good to go.

There is a high probability that the rollout switch connectors are toast if the controller was getting power but not the element.  These connectors often fail where the switch itself is usually ok UNLESS the connectors failed causing the plastic back of the switch to melt.
If the switch is damaged you can cut the wires that connect to the switch and wire nut them together and see if the element heats up.  This will get you buy if the switch is busted (they are delicate)

Should you confirm that all connectors are replaced and/or good to go then I'm guessing your circuit board is half busted... it looked in bad shape and may be allowing power to go to the controller but not to the heating element.

If the circuit board is busted then you can get a new one OR you graduate to the big boys table and rewire and buy an Auber PID and turn your MES into a beast! :)

Let us know what u find :)


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 14, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Well kind of.
> The switch is a normally closed switch so when u check the connectors and if they need replacing then the smoker should heat up IF the element connectors are good to go.
> 
> There is a high probability that the rollout switch connectors are toast if the controller was getting power but not the element.  These connectors often fail where the switch itself is usually ok UNLESS the connectors failed causing the plastic back of the switch to melt.
> ...



The element's connectors are solid, one of the first things I checked. They had a rubber insulation and heat shrink to protect them. No corrosion there. The rollout switch also looks ok, connectors and wires are still shiny and nice. Tested with my multimeter and it looks like it tested ok.

Additional pics:


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## tallbm (Jul 14, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> The element's connectors are solid, one of the first things I checked. They had a rubber insulation and heat shrink to protect them. No corrosion there. The rollout switch also looks ok, connectors and wires are still shiny and nice. Tested with my multimeter and it looks like it tested ok.
> 
> Additional pics:
> View attachment 453987
> ...




Good work with checking and posting the pics.
It looks like the cluprit may have been the corroded connectors at the circuit board.  
Once u get it all wired and hooked back up let us know if it all works again.
If it doesnt then maybe all that corrosion on the circuit board itself has damaged things too much.
If that's the case then u either get replacment board or my personal favorite idea, u rewire and go with an Auber PID and have an even better smoker :)

Let us know what u find :)


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## tanglefoot (Jul 14, 2020)

Hey there, EyeT. Greetings and welcome from SE MN. I was having similar issues with my MES30 a couple months ago. Fiddle-farted with that dang thing for a couple of weeks. Tallbm and chopsaw helped me out a lot. I finally rewired it and got a PID. Best move!! Now I have a smoker I can count on for consistent results. My $0.02. (Don't forget to order an AMNPS when you order your PID!!)


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 14, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Good work with checking and posting the pics.
> It looks like the cluprit may have been the corroded connectors at the circuit board.
> Once u get it all wired and hooked back up let us know if it all works again.
> If it doesnt then maybe all that corrosion on the circuit board itself has damaged things too much.
> ...



Already tried it and no luck. The board is toast. I'm talking the wife into a rewire and PID ;)


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 14, 2020)

tanglefoot said:


> Hey there, EyeT. Greetings and welcome from SE MN. I was having similar issues with my MES30 a couple months ago. Fiddle-farted with that dang thing for a couple of weeks. Tallbm and chopsaw helped me out a lot. I finally rewired it and got a PID. Best move!! Now I have a smoker I can count on for consistent results. My $0.02. (Don't forget to order an AMNPS when you order your PID!!)



Lol, I did the mailbox mod with the AMPNS after my first smoke ;)


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## bill1 (Jul 15, 2020)

EyeTGuy, 
You've got some real moisture ingress issues there.  I'd make sure you've got that straightened up (or have a adry place to store the unit) before I'd spend too much money on new controllers.


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 15, 2020)

bill1
 , I have plans to take care of this.



 tallbm
 I have received the coveted WAF. Any PID controllers that have wifi/app control? Might as well upgrade ;)


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## tallbm (Jul 15, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> bill1
> , I have plans to take care of this.
> 
> 
> ...



There's some guys that have the Auber WIFI model and they seem to love it:





						WIFI Electric Smoker Controller, 1800 Watts [AW-1520H] - $234.99 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. WIFI Electric Smoker Controller, 1800 Watts [AW-1520H] - This plug-and-play PID controller regulates the temperature of the electric smokers, such as Smokin-it®, Smokin Tex and Masterbuilt Smoker. This controller uses a PID algorithm to automatically adjust the power...



					www.auberins.com
				




I run the HeaterMeter (HM) PID which is a high degree of technical understanding and it seems my wifi has died and I haven't fooled with it to troubleshoot the wifi.  I have a 2nd usb wifi adapter fob I can swap out to see if that's the failure point but having smoked a ton of things and having my wireless thermometers that I also use, getting the wiki capabilities back haven't been a priority.

If want to tinker with a ton of moving parts and building a full controller (PID, SSR, Project Box, etc.) the HM is a project where the Auber unit seems like its basically little to no hassle and works.

I recommend the Auber Wifi unit over the HM unit simply because its easier to get started and easier to maintain.


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 15, 2020)

tallbm said:


> There's some guys that have the Auber WIFI model and they seem to love it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks! I'm ok with tech and don't mind a project, and I have RaspberryPi 3 that is sitting unused currently. Plus the price on the HM is decent as well. I don't need the blower do i? Would I need the thermocouple parts? Is there any way to use the existing temp sensor mounted in the smoker that the original/stock controller used?

Also, what size screws do I need to replace the back panel after drilling out the rivets. The ones I just bought are a bit too large.


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## radioguy (Jul 15, 2020)

I also run a HM on the electric I rebuilt.  You really need to be tech savvy to build  one and successfully run it.  You'll  only be saving a few bucks over the Auber.  I put my HM in a 3D printed case,  on the smoker I permanently mounted and wired SSR, safety relay, thermocouple and power cord.  I put plug in connectors on the HM so I can use it on other smokers.  I haven't done this yet but the option is there.  HM uses k type thermocouple for smoker temp and  RTD types for food probes.  I built mine a few years back I'm sure there are newer versions.  
I'd recommend the Auber unit also.  They have a number  of plug and play units.

Also was this unit exposed to the weather?  Looks awful rusty.

RG


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## tallbm (Jul 15, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> Thanks! I'm ok with tech and don't mind a project, and I have RaspberryPi 3 that is sitting unused currently. Plus the price on the HM is decent as well. I don't need the blower do i? Would I need the thermocouple parts? Is there any way to use the existing temp sensor mounted in the smoker that the original/stock controller used?
> 
> Also, what size screws do I need to replace the back panel after drilling out the rivets. The ones I just bought are a bit too large.



I got you covered with all the info you need:


#12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fastener to refasten circuit board panel back on after rivets are removed.  3/4" long may also be good for this one panel but MAY be a little short.  I used 3/4" because that is what I used when pulled the back off my MES 
Here is my post on my HM controller creation and all the parts and info u need.  In the end u wont save any money over the Auber and if i were to do it all over again I would change a number of things like not going with any of the outlets or rocker switches and using a much different fuse holder, etc. etc. etc.  Talk to me about lessons learned if u wanna take on the HM after reading this.
OH also use a 3amp plug or better as the ones listed in the HM specs are not capable of supplying enough power for the HM in the end... took me a while to figure that one out.






						HeaterMeter Controller, with Wifi, and Electric Smoker (MES40) Mod in Detail
					

Want to know how to setup the HeaterMeter PID Controller with Wifi to work with the MES?  Here you go :) Table of Contents   Overview HeaterMeter Mod Design  MES Rewired - just mention don't go into detail HeaterMeter Based Controller Box Wiring and Diagrams  HeaterMeter Setup  Common Setup...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 18, 2020)

Just purchased the Auber controller!


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## tallbm (Jul 18, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> Just purchased the Auber controller!



Nice!!! If you still have everything pulled apart you may as well replace all the connectors with the hi temp stainless steel ones and get it over with.  Will save you trouble later when the factory ones corrode away on u.  At that point with rewire, Auber, and new connectors the only thing stopping your smoker from running is something like it getting hit by a car :P


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 18, 2020)

Great! What rewiring should I do while I have it apart? Picking up some high heat connectors, screws, and some high heat gasket maker to help keep moisture out.


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## bill1 (Jul 18, 2020)

tallbm said:


> ...replace all the connectors with the hi temp stainless steel ones...


Dunno.  Stainless steel is a poor thermal and electrical conductor.  A quality nickel- or silver-plated brass connector is pretty hard to beat.  Stainless steel hardware can be used for clamping force alone, where this force is applied to tinned copper or Ni-plated brass connections,  but even there I'd say chromate-over-zinc-coated steel is more common, even when "cost is no object".


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## tallbm (Jul 18, 2020)

bill1 said:


> Dunno.  Stainless steel is a poor thermal and electrical conductor.  A quality nickel- or silver-plated brass connector is pretty hard to beat.  Stainless steel hardware can be used for clamping force alone, where this force is applied to tinned copper or Ni-plated brass connections,  but even there I'd say chromate-over-zinc-coated steel is more common, even when "cost is no object".


 
Any quality connector that can withstand humidity and or potential moisture situations well will work.  Stainless still just fits the bill there well so that is why I mention it.  

I'm all for any quality connectors that will stand up to the conditions and do the job better than stainless steel :)


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## dr k (Jul 18, 2020)

bill1 said:


> Dunno.  Stainless steel is a poor thermal and electrical conductor.  A quality nickel- or silver-plated brass connector is pretty hard to beat.  Stainless steel hardware can be used for clamping force alone, where this force is applied to tinned copper or Ni-plated brass connections,  but even there I'd say chromate-over-zinc-coated steel is more common, even when "cost is no object".


I believe supco lugs we  have are nickle plated steel (I used T1113.) Mine aren't crimpable horizontal barrels so I  used very old 50's or so 100% tin resin core solder. At least no aluminum oxide corrosion vs. the OEM lugs,


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## Bearcarver (Jul 18, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> Ryan, thanks.
> 
> Placed it on a table and found that panel is actually screwed on on mine. Opened it up and came across this sight (note red was barely hanging on, it had corroded away. Black was still firmly attached. Unsure where to go from here besides clean the terminals, attach hi-temp spades and pray that works?
> 
> ...




Yup---That's usually what goes first, if anything goes on an MES.
I see you have some Great help already.

Bear


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## bill1 (Jul 19, 2020)

dr k said:


> supco lugs...I used T1113


I checked 'em out.  The product pdf's don't tell you much of anything technically, but the pictures are hi-rez and I was impressed with the metal thickness (for retention force and contact pressure) and general quality of all their connectors and terminals.  

Of course without published specs, they could start selling the crummiest import parts under those same part numbers.  With just 141 employees (per Dun & Bradstreet) it's not like Supco is making these themselves (but are distributing someone else's products).  

I think the bottom line is water and electricity don't mix.  Line voltage installations have to be well-sealed or clearly labeled as not for outdoor use.  Most connectors show a good degree of metallurgical development.  If you open something up and see rusted transformer plates and broken-off connectors, it's not the fault of the connectors but of the waterproofing of the panel.  Be thankful you didn't get electrocuted.  If you fix the waterproofing problem, most connectors you use as replacements will get the job done safely.


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 19, 2020)

Rewired the smoker today and sealed the bottom panel as well as the heat element panel with high heat silicon gasket maker. Also got rid of the old circuit board and the extra wires since theyre about useless now. Used butt connectors and heat shrink tubing. Now I wait for the new PID controller!


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## BaxtersBBQ (Jul 19, 2020)

I’m currently trying out a prototype to fix your current problem(assuming your heating element still works). PM me and I’ll give you the guys info. His PID is an inexpensive way to fix your smoker if you’re interested.


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## tallbm (Jul 20, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> Rewired the smoker today and sealed the bottom panel as well as the heat element panel with high heat silicon gasket maker. Also got rid of the old circuit board and the extra wires since theyre about useless now. Used butt connectors and heat shrink tubing. Now I wait for the new PID controller!
> 
> View attachment 454781
> View attachment 454780
> View attachment 454779



Nice! that's the rewire job that matters.
If you can replace the connectors at the safety rollout limit switch that will be good.  If you can cut a panel for it that will also save you some pain later.  I have a dremel and cut a square and then covered with a piece of scrap metal that I screwed on with the same sheet metal screws.  I have had to open it numerious times as my replacement switches like to fail on me haha.


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## TheEyeTGuy (Jul 23, 2020)

tallbm
 my Auber controller came in today. Any configuration I need to do to it? Like configuring the Proportional,Integral,Derivative,Control Cycle Time?


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## chopsaw (Jul 23, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> Like configuring the Proportional,Integral,Derivative,Control Cycle Time?


Hook it up and choose a set temp say 200 . See how it runs . How long it takes to get to temp , and at what point it starts " walking in " to that temp . You can run auto tune , but that was useless for me . Made it worse . Just see how it does out of the box , then we can adjust . I adjusted mine , but some guys run it as on / off , which works just fine also . In that case P would have a value , I would be 0 , D would be 0 .  Take notes along the way .


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## tallbm (Jul 23, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> tallbm
> my Auber controller came in today. Any configuration I need to do to it? Like configuring the Proportional,Integral,Derivative,Control Cycle Time?



I think 

 chopsaw
 has u covered here.
I ran autotune with a bunch of foil pans and crap in mine and it did the trick for me but I'm sure we can help u along if it doesnt work well out of the box.
Write down the original numbres and then if it isn't doing so well we can help you play with it and no matter what it should be better than the stock MES anyow unless it is just way off hahahah.

Just know that randomly trying numbers is not going to help at all so some educated adjustments are best and we can help u with that haha.


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## dr k (Jul 24, 2020)

TheEyeTGuy said:


> tallbm
> my Auber controller came in today. Any configuration I need to do to it? Like configuring the Proportional,Integral,Derivative,Control Cycle Time?


I have the Auber WS1510ELPM. If P=0 regardless of the I and D values it's in on/off mode like the stock Mes controller. If I=0 and D=0 and P is 1 or higher, then your in P mode and that is how many degrees below your set temp when heating that the controller is in full output before it comes out of full power and starts flashing 120vac on and off. I do P mode but I have  a Mes 40. I'm almost always at P=1, I=0 and D=0 cooking at 275° with ribs, butts and briskets. Sometimes I just change the P value to 2 or 3 for fish or sausaged starting at 150, then 160 etc but I seem to go back to P=1.  I do single step mode so no minutes to enter. 

In the instructions with P mode if P=7 then 7 degrees below set temp it's 7/7= 1=100% full power, then 6 degrees below set temp is 6/7 = flashing for 86% output, then 5/7=71% down to 1/7=14% ,then set temp is 0/7=0=off to come in for a landing at set temp. But when temp drops to one degree below set temp it's only flashing 1/7=14% which may not be enough output so it quickly drops another degree and another and another. That's why I  do P=1. It appears to be on/off mode but even though the resolution is in 1° increments one degree below set point P=1 =1/1=full on power and then one half degree below set temp .5/1 flashes 50% output for the maximum output one half degree below set temp to drop only a couple degrees from set temp. So I'm at 100% output, 50% or off. On the way up to set temp you'll cruise past the set temp several degrees on preheating an empty smoker but not with food and cooking at 275°. It's the cooling below set temp that I want to eliminate by getting the fastest reaction with a low P value. If your in PID mode with value 1 or higher in the three areas and using out of the box settings or autotune and flashing 25 degrees below set temp It'l take forever to get there which was my problem with the out of the box setting and autotuning. The P mode is the fastest mode to cruise right up to your set point and settle in to a couple of degrees within set temp after a few cycles. This is based on an Mes 40 at higher temps and the rate at which hot air leaving the top vent is replaced with cool incoming air. A masterbuilt analog smoker with just a 3/4" vent hole like Smokin it smokers maybe best with full PID mode. To run analog rice cookers, slow cookers for Sous Vide or to make yogurt Auber sent me a chart to set in PD mode P=4, I=0 and D=40 for no over shoot and holds to the degree.


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## chopsaw (Jul 24, 2020)

dr k
  thanks for clearing that up . Been awhile since I've looked at any of it . Its really pretty easy to set up once you understand what controls what .


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