# "Sous Vide" Discussion



## sqwib

Hello folks.

I wanted to start a thread for Sous Vide cooking since there seems to be a lot of interest in this cooking method. 

What is "Sous Vide"?

According to wiki,

_*Sous-vide* (/suːˈviːd/; French for "under vacuum") is a method of cooking food sealed in airtight plastic bags in a water bath for longer than normal cooking times—72 hours in some cases—at an accurately regulated temperature much lower than normally used for cooking, typically around 55 °C (131 °F) to 60 °C (140 °F) for meats and higher for vegetables. The intention is to cook the item evenly, and not to overcook the outside while still keeping the inside at the same "doneness", keeping the food juicier._

*This should make Lisa happy!*







I know there's a few guys on here that for a while that have been cooking using this method and would love for them to share what they have learned such as safety concerns, cook times, Recipes, DIY Builds, Equipment, etc...

Would also love to hear from the guys who have used Sous Vide cooking with Smoking/Pitcooking/Grilling

Thanks in advance 

SQWIB

Links *(mods please delete if they're against forum policy)*

Douglas Baldwin.com (read post#2)
Lisa's (Vacuum Sealers Unlimited) Coupon thread 
Vacuum Sealers Unlimited
“Pasteurization Time for Poultry ” - thanks DiggingDogFarm

"5 Common Misconceptions About Sous Vide Cooking" - thanks DiggingDogFarm

"Polyscience Time and Temperature Reference"  – Thanks DaveOmak

"Chef Steps Egg Calculator" - thanks DiggingDogFarm
*SousVide Machines*

Cooks Illustrated SousVide Machine reviews

Anova
SousVide Supreme
Sansaire
PolyScience
Nomiku
Mellow
*Members Sous Vide setups*


Addertooth

Bmaddox

DaveOmak

Luv2putt

shtrdave

SQWIBS  Polyscience SousVide Professional Immersion Circulator Clone


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Anyone who's interested in sous vide cooking needs to read Douglas Baldwin's *A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking* before even thinking about turning their machine on!!!!!

I also recommend his article in the International Journal of Gastronomy and Food Science, *Sous vide cooking: A review*.

For a basic outline on sous vide safety.....

*PolyScience: Food Safety with Sous Vide Cooking*

Table of Contents:

A: Sous Vide Cooking Process
B: Highly Susceptible Audience
C: Further Resources



A: Sous Vide Cooking Process
As with any food process, sous vide requires specified food handling practices to prevent, eliminate, or reduce the food biological, chemical, and physical hazards to a safe level.

Three important aspects require additional attention:

When food is vacuum packed Vacuum-packaged food creates an anaerobic (oxygen-free) or reduced oxygen environment. With improper food handling, some of the most dangerous bacteria can grow, such as salmonella and botulism. Safe food handling and hygiene standards should always be maintained.
Food cooked at low temperatures for extended periods of time can cause bacteria to multiply rapidly. The longer food is in the “danger zone” — temperatures between 40°F and 140°F (4.4°C to 60°C) — the faster bacteria can multiply and the more dangerous they can become.
When food in pouch has finished the required cooking time, it has to be removed and served immediately, or rapidly chilled. Cooling must be less than 6 hours from 130 to 41ºF.
Carefully read and incorporate these detailed guidelines into your cooking method to assure safety in each step.  
Prerequisites to food preparation.

Make sure that the refrigerator is 41ºF or colder.  The colder the refrigerator, the slower the spoilage of ingredients.
Get an accurate digital food thermometer to check the temperature of the raw and cooked food to assure that it reached a desired end point.
Get the plastic pouches that the food will be packaged in.  Make sure that they are not contaminated.
Use detergent,  warm water, wash ,  and rinse the food contact surfaces.  Sanitize the surfaces with a solution of 1 teaspoon chlorine bleach per gallon of water to prevent cross-contamination.
Be sure to separate the raw ingredient preparation area from the finished product area, or wash, rinse, and sanitize a surface when changing from raw preparation to finished food.
Sous vide processing. 

The basic steps of the sous vide process are shown in the following flow chart. Details to each step are provided below the flow chart.
Prepare the work area.  Put away unnecessary objects.  Clean and sanitize food contact surfaces, and store chemicals so that they cannot contaminate the food.
↓

Get fresh ingredients.  Sous vide cannot make spoiled ingredients taste good. It amplifies the flavors and should only be applied to the freshest ingredients.
↓

Trim, cut, and prepare ingredients.  Remember, the thicker the protein ingredient, the longer it takes to come to its cooking temperature. Less than 2 inch thickness is a practical maximum thickness.  Weigh additives carefully. Safe cook times can be calculated in PolyScience iPhone/iPad app “Sous Vide Toolbox”
↓

Package / vacuum seal.  The purpose of the vacuum is to pull the plastic pouch film tight to the food for good heat transfer.  Check the seal.
↓

Cook / pasteurize.  Reduce vegetative pathogens such as Salmonella 5 log (100,000 to 1).  Cooking / pasteurization begins about 130ºF.
↓

Hold at cooking temperature until desired degree of doneness is achieved.
↓

Cool fast enough to prevent the outgrowth of spores.
↓

Cold hold meat, poultry, and vegetables at 41ºF to prevent the outgrowth of spores and slow growth of spoilage organisms.
↓

Warm (reheating) and serve.


Set Up Sous Vide Professional and Water Bath

Clamp Sous Vide Professional to a stockpot or any other vessel. Fill with water up to maximum level, indicated on Sous Vide Professional.
To guarantee precise temperature control, refer to user manual for maximum water volume. For example the Sous Vide Professional CHEF Series has a maximum of seven gallons or twenty eight liters of water. A second Sous Vide Professional may be required to maintain the level of precise temperature control with larger volumes.
Set the Sous Vide Professional to desired temperature. Cover bath with lid or plastic wrap for efficient heat-up time and to avoid evaporation.


Get fresh ingredients; Trim, cut, and prepare ingredients. 

One must start with very fresh ingredients in order to assure that off-flavors from spoilage are minimal and are not amplified in the cooking method.  Also, by focusing on freshness, it will assure lower spoilage bacteria counts at the start of refrigerated storage so that the finished product will have a longer refrigerated shelf life.
It is safer if you use solid, not ground or punctured, pieces of meat, poultry, or fish.  When it is punctured, it becomes critical that, not just the surface, but the center of the food get hot enough for long enough to be pasteurized.
Since cooking is done in a plastic pouch, there is no loss of flavor volatiles in sous vide cooking.
Package / vacuum seal. 

The vacuum is not for flavor.  It is to have a good heat transfer between the water bath and the surface of the food.
Assure that food-grade quality plastic pouches that have not become contaminated in storage are used; 2-3 ml plastic is adequate. If zip-loc type bags are used, assure that they are heat-safe to the temperatures you will be cooking at.
Make sure food is refrigerated at 38°F (3.3°C) or below until ready to seal.
To ensure precise and even cooking, arrange pieces of food in the plastic bag in a single layer.
Check vacuum bag for proper seal before cooking.
As bags are sealed, check to be sure that there was no crease in the plastic and that the seal is uniform with an even fusing from one side to the other.
After sealing, immediately cook or refrigerate food at 38°F (3.3°C) or below until ready to cook (see storing tips on the following page).
Cook / pasteurize. 

Insert vacuum-sealed bag only when bath has reached correct temperature.
Follow time and temperatures guidelines and consider increasing cooking time if food has a larger diameter than specified in the recipe.
Cooking time increases by a factor of almost 4 times per extra inch. If you only double the time per inch, it will be unsafe!
In case you are not able to remove all the air due to limitations of your vacuum sealer, you can weigh down the pouch with a heavy porcelain plate to ensure it is fully submerged. This is important to ensure safe cooking results.
If you cook more than one vacuum bag, make sure they are not too close to each other.
Make sure to hold the pouch under the water so that it is fully cooked.  Food safety times and temperatures are based on center temperatures of the food.
Check temperature and sealed vacuum bag frequently during cooking process. A bag that suddenly begins to float, inflate, or leak is a sign of food-safety issues. Discard food and clean tank and Sous Vide Professional.
If during cooking in the water bath, the bag balloons and floats to the surface, a seal has failed, or the temperature is too hot and steam has formed in the package, or there is a pinhole.  The package must be thrown away, because you do not know if there was adequate heat transfer and pasteurization was effective.
Always measure the internal temperature of foods before serving. You can re-seal a pouch and continue cooking if necessary.
If you are making more than one pouch, a very smart thing to do is to sample the first pouch removed from cooking.  Take your digital thermometer and verify the center temperature of the food.  Also sample the flavor of the product.  If it needs more cooking, you can reseal the pouch and continue to cook.
If you are cooking fish to a temperature of less than 130ºF, there are parasite and vegetative pathogen risks.  Undercooked fish should have been frozen at -4ºF for 7 days to assure the destruction of the parasite, and the customer should be informed that undercooked food has some illness risk.
There will be two primary biological hazards in the meat, poultry, fish, vegetables or fruit that are cooked sous vide.

The first hazard is vegetative pathogens, and the regulatory target is Salmonella.  The goal is to cook the food in the pouch to a time and temperature to reduce Salmonella 100,000-to-1.  This will reduce the Salmonella from a maximum of 1,000 per gram in the raw food to 1 per 100 grams in the finished food.  Salmonella is used as the target organism, because it has been, and continues to be, a major cause of illness and kills an estimated 500 people each year.

The government-specified times and temperatures for this pasteurization are:

Center temperature

Hold time

130ºF

112 minutes

140ºF

11 minutes

150ºF

1 minute

155ºF

5 seconds

158ºF

instant (less than 1 second)

The second biological hazard common to the ingredients from the water and land farms are the spores, Clostridium botulinum [proteolytic (meat, poultry) and non-proteolytic (fish, seafood)], Bacillus cereus (cereal products), and Clostridium perfringens (meat, poultry, lentils).

When the food is pasteurized, Salmonella is reduced to an Appropriate Level of Protection (ALOP), but pasteurization temperatures have no kill effect on the spores.  Pasteurization just activates the spore.

IMPORTANT:
It’s a rule-of-thumb that if you cook below 130°F (54.4°C) there is an increased risk for vegetative pathogen and parasite development. However, food safety depends on a combination of temperature, time, pH level and the freshness of the ingredients. Extended cooking time pasteurizes food and reduces potential Salmonella to an appropriate level.

Hold. 

After the food is pasteurized, if the food is hotter than 130ºF, the spores cannot germinate and multiply, regardless of time.
One can hold / tenderize for 24 to 48 hours safely.  This is also a major feature of sous vide.
If the cooking temperature is 130 to 150ºF, there is an additional benefit.  The enzymes are very active, and the meat becomes very tender.
Chill.

At this point, the spore is activated (pasteurization has no kill effect on spores, it activates spores); so, cooling becomes a critical control procedure.
The target spore for cooling is Clostridium perfringens.  It must be controlled so that there is less than 1 to 10 increase in population during cooling.
To assure safety, cooling must be less than 6 hours from 130 to 41ºF.  This is easily done for most sous vide products if they are less than 2 inches thick in an proper ice bath.
The recommendation for a proper ice bath is: ratio of 1lb ice to 1lb product, topped off with cold tap water. Agitation will increase the effect of a rapid chill process.
It limits roasts to about 5 pounds.  After the cooling to 41ºF, C. perfringens cannot multiply, and the target spore for storage is Bacillus cereus for all food except fish.  Holding at 41ºF controls B. cereus.
For cooked fish, there is a critical limit of 37.4ºF to prevent the non-proteolytic C. botulinum on the fish from growing.  If cooked fish is to be stored after cooling, it should be frozen or held in ice at less than 37.4ºF, or served within 7 days if held at 41ºF.
Cold hold.

Before storing, label vacuum-sealed bags with expiration date and contents.
For practical purposes, if the preceding instructions are followed there is probably no significant reason to hold sous vide product for more than 7 days.
If the recipe includes inhibitors, such as salt or acidity, food can be stored up to 45 days, as long as temperature is meat and poultry is 41ºF or colder, or fish and seafood is less than 37.4F (3.0ºC).
Only spores or some surviving spoilage organisms can multiply, and temperature is the critical control.
Warm (reheating) and serve. 

Reheating is not for safety; it is a quality factor to meet consumer desires.
The food is safe if the preceding instructions are followed, and the food can be eaten cold from the pouch or removed from the pouch and browned and heated to suit the consumer.
When reheating cooked food, simply bring water bath back to desired serving temperature and apply time needed for core to reach temperature.
Always measure the internal temperature of foods before serving. You can re-seal a pouch and continue cooking if necessary.
If reheated in the bag, consider that spores or some surviving spoilage organisms can multiply. Temperature is the critical control.
A major safety advantage of sous vide is that it was pasteurized in the package, so there is no chance of contamination of the product by vegetative pathogens in storage after cooling.
Frozen, cooked foods must thaw under refrigeration (41°F or below) and reheated upon complete thaw, prior to consumption.
Top

B: Highly Susceptible Audience
Children, elderly and expectant mothers and those with compromised immune systems should not consume raw or undercooked foods.

Many temperatures listed on this website (www.cuisinetechnology.com) and within PolyScience Sous Vide Professional[emoji]8482[/emoji] literature, manuals, applications and marketing include “threshold temperatures,” which are considered to be at the low end of FDA required cooking temperatures.

Anyone in these audiences should cook all recipes listed on this website or within PolyScience Sous Vide Professional[emoji]8482[/emoji] literature, manuals, applications and marketing 2°C/4°F higher than listed in the recipe and for 5% more time (Calculator) to ensure proper cooking temperatures and pathogenic reduction. For further information of accepted safe cooking temperatures, please visit www.FDA.gov

Top

C: Further Resources
FDA Food regulatory criteria for sous vide on www.fda.gov or specifically http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm186451.htm#part3-5
Comprehensive temperature guidance and pathogenic log reduction can be safely calculated with the PolyScience Sous Vide Toolbox[emoji]8482[/emoji] application for Apple iOS.


Stay safe!!!!

~Martin


----------



## dcarch

Great Thread! About time.

First, *this definitely have something to do with smoking and grilling. *I often first sous vide then smoke, which gives me very good control of temperature for the entire piece of meat.

Some random thoughts:

Sous vide in reality is not "under pressure" nor "under vacuum". It is nothing more then airless cooking in hot water.

Sous vide (water oven) totally bypasses the thermodynamic law of conductivity. The meat will be uniformly done inside and outside, even for very thick piece of meat, no resting required. 

Regarding food safety, the opposite is true, sous vide guarantees food safety, with the right equipment, you don’t even have to poke around with a thermometer to check internal temperature. 

Perfect fool-proof temperature control to within one degree. “Set it, and forget it” Go to sleep and nothing to worry about.

All meat shrinks and dries out above certain temperature. No matter how careful you are with “low & slow”, all other appliances will overcook a part of the meat.

No matter what appliance you cook with, you never can know the temperature you are actually cooking at. For instance, I did a test of my oven:

Set the temperature dial to 220F, I was getting the following:

Water cup in back – 152F

Water cup in front – 149F

Water cup on bottom – 141F

Cup of oil next to water in back -194F (showing the importance of water evaporation in lowering temperature)

dcarch


----------



## wade

Yes a great topic that I think will be of interest to a lot of other members. Maybe it is worth starting another group as there are so many variations/techniques/recipes in sous vide cooking that they are likely to swamp a single thread. Happy to help manage a group if others are interested.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

On the subject of PID sous vide temperature control, the Fresh Meal Solutions _*Guide to PID Control for Sous Vide Cookery*_ contains a lot of very useful information.
While intended to apply to the Fresh Meal Solutions Sous Vide Magic controller, it contains a lot of information that will apply to other controllers.


~Martin


----------



## smokin monkey

Count Me In On This One.

This is My Ultimate Sous Vide, Six Baths!













image.jpg



__ smokin monkey
__ Mar 8, 2014







Smokn Monkey


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Hey...that's pretty cool!!!

~Martin :smile:


----------



## mrh

I am in the process of trying to put a controller/ heater together now. Not so much for sous vide but to finish salamis, hot dogs etc.  Although it will work to do sous vide I am sure. Using a pid, thermocouple to control it.  Trying to make it a self contained unit that I can mount in a cooler etc.   So I will be watching this close!  Great topic!

Mark


----------



## dcarch

MRH said:


> I am in the process of trying to put a controller/ heater together now. Not so much for sous vide but to finish salamis, hot dogs etc.  Although it will work to do sous vide I am sure. Using a pid, thermocouple to control it.  Trying to make it a self contained unit that I can mount in a cooler etc.   So I will be watching this close!  Great topic!
> 
> Mark


And a water pump/circulator.

dcarch


----------



## johnduoh

Gotta second all said above drool over the six station steam table conversion! 

I have to add that while Sous Vide can seem overwhelming at first, so was smoking meats to most of us.  If your into it, Sous Vide is just another tool in the bag to produce outstanding meals, particularly when serving large groups due to the ability to prepare and hold without loss of quality.  It can also be a way to get the most out of your smoker.  I have often smoked chicken, or steaks, then thrown into the water bath to get to temp with out drying out and or to hold while cooking another item.  Additionally this is a great way to get your smoke fix on the days when you just want a easy couple of portions by rapidly cooling the bag down so you can refrigerate for a few days then reheat as needed.  If your interested in the technique but aren't sure about dropping the money on equipment I highly recommend trying is to start with the beer cooler steaks and kitchen sink salmon cooks as detailed on Serious eats.  Both can be accomplished safely with things you already have at home ( beer coolers, freezer bags, digital thermometer ect,)  and give you a glimpse of what this style of cooking is all about.  If at that point your hooked invest in a more controlled set up that will allow for long cooks such as 48 hour pork belly, 72 hour short ribs, or one of my go to sides caramelized carrots.  Over the last year I have made some outstanding meals, I joking refer to as science experiments, using Sous Vide but been reticent to post these on a smoking meats site, please pm if you are interested in recipes and observations on my experiments. In short science tastes good!

-John


----------



## ajbert

Not to sound...ummm...sarcastic?  Not sure that is the correct word, as I'm not trying to sound like a smart ass in the least.

But this sounds kind of like the MRE's I ate many times with the heating packs.  The meal was in a foil pouch that you slipped into a plastic pouch with yet another "pouch".  You added water which caused a chemical reaction with the inner "pouch" and produced heat.  Which, of course, heated the food pouch.

I won't say this was the best food I've ever consumed but some of it was pretty good, if not too bad.  This sounds as somewhat the same approach.  However, I'm pretty sure the food in the MRE's was already cooked and we were just heating it up.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

MREs (or boil in a bag) are not sous vide in the same way  that crockpot BBQ isn't real BBQ!
They are not even close to the same thing! No comparison!



~Martin


----------



## shtrdave

This is my set up for now to see how I am going to like this type of cooking, plus the GF has to like it also.
Have only made a couple of things so far. Just put it together last weekend, still need to find an enclosure to put the controller in.













IMG_1112.JPG



__ shtrdave
__ Mar 8, 2014


----------



## mrh

dcarch said:


> And a water pump/circulator.
> 
> dcarch


I am trying to find one that will work too.  I am using a electric hot water heater element too. Figure I better use a GFI to plug things into since there is the water thing!


----------



## smokin monkey

Mark! will post some pictures of a self made PID Control Unit, that I have put together, they are very easy to make, and all parts are avaiable from EBay.

Smokin Monkey


----------



## dcarch

MRH said:


> I am trying to find one that will work too.  I am using a electric hot water heater element too. Figure I better use a GFI to plug things into since there is the water thing!


If you cook at higher temperature, like vegetables which often at 185F, do not use those submersible pumps. They have electronic (Hall Effect) components inside which cannot take high temperature.

An external pump/stirrer using a shaded pole motor is best. very long lasting. It has only one moving parts. However, they are designed mostly for horizontal use with permanently  oiled sintered bronze bearings. For vertical running the washer spacer becomes the bearing and will need to be oiled some times.

dcarch


----------



## smokin monkey

The best pumps to use are these, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump.

These are the PID Controllers I make, PID, on/ off switch, K Type Probe, relay to handle power consumption, Socket on top to plug appliance you want to control.  All very easy to put together. 













image.jpg



__ smokin monkey
__ Mar 9, 2014


















image.jpg



__ smokin monkey
__ Mar 9, 2014


















image.jpg



__ smokin monkey
__ Mar 9, 2014






Smokin Monkey


----------



## dcarch

Smokin Monkey said:


> The best pumps to use are these, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump.
> 
> These are the PID Controllers I make, PID, on/ off switch, K Type Probe, relay to handle power consumption, Socket on top to plug appliance you want to control. All very easy to put together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smokin Monkey


Those *are not *very good pumps to use for sous vide. They have extremely low capacity in flow rate, and they have complicated reduction gears in design which can break down. Good one are very expensive also.

They are used where low flow is desirable and self-priming is required.

dcarch


----------



## shtrdave

I did  my chicken today, it turned out very good , moist, tender, flavorful, not much color, it all cooked together but fell apart easily. This was a piece of chicken breast that I cut up, and put in a bag, put in some rooster sauce, agave nectar, mrs dash and cooked at 145° for about 50 minutes.













IMG_1124.JPG



__ shtrdave
__ Mar 9, 2014


















IMG_1126.JPG



__ shtrdave
__ Mar 9, 2014


----------



## jarjarchef

Not an expert here. Only done a few things Sous Vide. The company I work for their Food Safety Team is not a huge supporter of this cooking style. They allow a couple kitchens to play with it while they come up with a safe process for it. But the kitchen I currently work in was able to purchase one. It is the PolyScience Sous Vide Professional Chef one. It is a model where we can attach it to just about any container. I will say this model has a very high water flow, actually a bit too much and usually tone it down a bit for the size of container we use.

Just tossing out ideas for a water flow method. What if you were to use a magnetic driven water pump for an aquarium for the circulation. Maybe use a cooler with two cambers, one for the food and another for the heater. Put the thermometer probe in the food chamber to be monitored. Another thought is to again use a cooler, but put the heater and aquarium pump inside a 6" PVC casing with holes to allow the water flow, again the probe in the food section for more accurate temp monitoring............. I really like the flexibility the model we have gives us verse the box styles........


I am very interested in this and look forward to learning.

I agree with what was said about food safety. It is all in the freshness and handling. Use only fresh properly handled products and you will lessen the chances of food born illnesses greatly.........


----------



## sqwib

shtrdave said:


> This is my set up for now to see how I am going to like this type of cooking, plus the GF has to like it also.
> Have only made a couple of things so far. Just put it together last weekend, still need to find an enclosure to put the controller in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_1112.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ shtrdave
> __ Mar 8, 2014


Here's what I used, its extremely heavy duty and easy to cut out with a rotary tool.

*Carlon Marine Conduit Box E987N 4 X 4 X 4 (50 CU. IN.) PVC*








These are awesome replacements for wire nuts.







LOL, I want a little heavy on the wire, most is 12-2


----------



## sqwib

jarjarchef said:


> Not an expert here. Only done a few things Sous Vide. The company I work for their Food Safety Team is not a huge supporter of this cooking style. They allow a couple kitchens to play with it while they come up with a safe process for it. But the kitchen I currently work in was able to purchase one. It is the PolyScience Sous Vide Professional Chef one. It is a model where we can attach it to just about any container. I will say this model has a very high water flow, actually a bit too much and usually tone it down a bit for the size of container we use.
> 
> Just tossing out ideas for a water flow method. What if you were to use a magnetic driven water pump for an aquarium for the circulation. Maybe use a cooler with two cambers, one for the food and another for the heater. Put the thermometer probe in the food chamber to be monitored. Another thought is to again use a cooler, but put the heater and aquarium pump inside a 6" PVC casing with holes to allow the water flow, again the probe in the food section for more accurate temp monitoring............. I really like the flexibility the model we have gives us verse the box styles........
> 
> 
> I am very interested in this and look forward to learning.
> 
> I agree with what was said about food safety. It is all in the freshness and handling. Use only fresh properly handled products and you will lessen the chances of food born illnesses greatly.........


I'm working on a  *Polyscience Sous Vide Professional Immersion Circulator clone,* hopefully it will perform well.

I see what your saying about the circulator being strong, I tested this in a bucket and it was really whipping that water around.













20140307003.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Mar 10, 2014


----------



## dcarch

shtrdave said:


> This is my set up for now to see how I am going to like this type of cooking, plus the GF has to like it also.
> Have only made a couple of things so far. Just put it together last weekend, still need to find an enclosure to put the controller in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_1112.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ shtrdave
> __ Mar 8, 2014


The controller shown, I think is just an electronic thermostat. It does not have "PID" features. Using that with a slow cooker, especially without a circulator, you can be having wide temperature swings.


----------



## sqwib

dcarch said:


> The controller shown, I think is just an electronic thermostat. It does not have "PID" features. Using that with a slow cooker, especially without a circulator, you can be having wide temperature swings.


I believe you are correct.

I was getting a 3°C (5.4°F) swing on my build and I had a circulator, I just swapped out the controller for a Farenheit controller hopefully the swing will be less (hoping on 3°F at the most) It's fine for what I am cooking now, but as posted before I have another build in the works.

This is the swing I get on a roaster, I have read Rice Cookers are better, followed by Crock Pots and Roasters are on the bottom of the list, some folks have had success with Coffee Urns as well.

There is a bit of carry over heat from the Roaster once it shuts off, and with these controllers, there's no way to compensate, these controllers may work better with instant on and off devices like an immersion heater, not sure but it makes sense.

The swing never goes below the Low Limit preset, only above, so that's at least a good thing.

A "P.I D." has a pretty cool feature, Auto-Tuning
By simply press a single button the built-in artificial intelligent is activated to automatically calculate and set parameters that fit the condition to be controlled.

Is it worth an extra $15-$20? I think so but I'll let you know for sure in a few weeks.

If all goes well this one will be used for holding foods at parties and events.













20140306082p.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Mar 10, 2014


----------



## dcarch

Using that aquarium temperature controller, an immersion heater, a circulator and a plastic tub, you can get fairly good temperature accuracy. The lower the thermal mass, the better.

I would definitely go with a PID controller with SSR output. The relay contact in the aquarium controller is not very high ampage. It gets worn out after a while. If that happens when you are cooking a $100 prime rib, What are you saving?

dcarch


----------



## diggingdogfarm

SQWIB said:


> This is the swing I get on a roaster, I have read Rice Cookers are better, followed by Crock Pots and Roasters are on the bottom of the list, some folks have had success with Coffee Urns as well.



Non-digitally controlled  rice cookers and coffee urns are the best because they heat from the bottom, the others don't, most heat from the side.



SQWIB said:


> A "P.I D." has a pretty cool feature, Auto-Tuning
> 
> By simply press a single button the built-in artificial intelligent is activated to automatically calculate and set parameters that fit the condition to be controlled.
> 
> Is it worth an extra $15-$20? I think so but I'll let you know for sure in a few weeks.



I sure think so....but, IMHO, not just any PID.....there are a lot of commonly available PIDs that aren't reliably accurate.
For the most part sous vide is precise temperature control, when cooking at lower sous vide temperatures where safety is even more of an issue than normal or cooking things that are very temperature sensitive (such as eggs or fish) it's especially important to have the best control, accuracy and precision...one degree can make a difference.
Personally, I wouldn't use a standard temperature controller or a cheap PID for anything other than veggies, where accuracy and precision are not as important.


~Martin


----------



## dcarch

A tip for those of you using a digital aquarium temperature controller:

Get a spare sensor. The sensor can sometimes malfunction.

If you buy a replacement sensor, it can cost you $5.00 to $8.00.

However, if you buy an aquarium LCD thermometer, all you need to do is cut the sensor and use that. It is the same sensor. The LCD thermometer is less than $3.00.

dcarch


----------



## sqwib

What do you guys think about the JDL612 PID with a PT100 probe?
It's an RTD type probe
Expecting delivery this week


----------



## sqwib

dcarch said:


> A tip for those of you using a digital aquarium temperature controller:
> 
> Get a spare sensor. The sensor can sometimes malfunction.
> 
> If you buy a replacement sensor, it can cost you $5.00 to $8.00.
> 
> However, if you buy an aquarium LCD thermometer, all you need to do is cut the sensor and use that. It is the same sensor. The LCD thermometer is less than $3.00.
> 
> 
> dcarch



Absolutely. I ordered a couple and used a speaker terminal for easy probe replacement.












12928816173_fe94e7c0a3_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Mar 10, 2014


----------



## wade

SQWIB said:


> I was getting a 3°C (5.4°F) swing on my build and I had a circulator, I just swapped out the controller for a Farenheit controller hopefully the swing will be less (hoping on 3°F at the most) It's fine for what I am cooking now, but as posted before I have another build in the works.


Surely the accuracy of the controller would be the same regardless of the units the temperature is displayed in. If they use similar sensors (which most do) it just uses a different conversion factor for turning the same sensor reading into a numeric display.


----------



## sqwib

Wade said:


> Surely the accuracy of the controller would be the same regardless of the units the temperature is displayed in. If they use similar sensors (which most do) it just uses a different conversion factor for turning the same sensor reading into a numeric display.


The accuracy of the controller will give you a tighter margin in F as opposed to C because the cycling time is shorter. I may be wrong but this is my reasoning,

The controller works in increments of "1" regardless of °C or °F,  so I can set it 1° below my desired temp.

For Celsius, if the unit is set for low limit of 56°C (132.8°F) and desired temperature is 57°C (134.6°F) the unit will turn on at 55.9° (132.62°F) and kick off at 57°C (134.6°F) *This is 1.98°F difference or 1.1°C difference.*

Now if I do the same setting at farenheit, the low limit is closer to the desired set temperature as farenheit has smaller increments

For example,

If the unit is set for low limit of 132°F (55.5556°C) and desired temperature is 133°F (56.1111°C) the unit will turn on at 131.9°F (55.5° ) and kick off at 133°F (56.1111°C) *This is 1.1°F difference or 0.611°C difference*.

The controller will cycle closer to the desired temperature because farenheit uses smaller increments. Plus since I'm using a roaster... since the cycle is shorter, there may be a reduction in carry over heat from the appliance as the heating cycle will be shorter.

Anyhow I'm hoping this is correct, I will find out this week... please check my math, Math wasn't my best subject!


----------



## diggingdogfarm

SQWIB said:


> Wade said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surely the accuracy of the controller would be the same regardless of the units the temperature is displayed in. If they use similar sensors (which most do) it just uses a different conversion factor for turning the same sensor reading into a numeric display.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The accuracy of the controller will give you a tighter margin so the cycling time is shorter, and does so by a factor of 1.8F if using a Celsius controller. I may be wrong but this is my reasoning,
> 
> The controller works in increments of "1" regardless of °C or °F,  so I can set it 1° below my desired temp.
> 
> For Celsius, if the unit is set for low limit of 56°C (132.8°F) and desired temperature is 57°C (134.6°F) the unit will turn on at 55.9° (132.62°F) and kick off at 57°C (134.6°F) *This is 1.98°F difference or 1.1°C difference.*
> 
> Now if I do the same setting at farenheit, the low limit is closer to the desired set temperature as farenheit has smaller increments
> For example,
> If the unit is set for low limit of 132°F (55.5556°C) and desired temperature is 133°F (56.1111°C) the unit will turn on at 131.9°F (55.5° ) and kick off at 133°F (56.1111°C) *This is 1.1°F difference or 0.611°C difference*.
> 
> The controller will cycle closer to the desired temperature because farenheit uses smaller increments. Plus since I'm using a roaster... since the cycle is shorter, there may be a reduction in carry over heat from the appliance as the heating cycle will be shorter.
> 
> Anyhow I'm hoping this is correct, I will find out this week... please check my math, Math wasn't my best subject!
Click to expand...



This is exactly why controllers such as the Sous Vide Magic or circulators such as the Anova are preferred by many.
They have MUCH better precision, accuracy and stability than many common controllers.
Both have .01 °C resolution and .01 °C accuracy.
So, as an example, there are *1000* possible set points between 0°C and 100°C, whereas controllers with a resolution of 1 degree only have 100 possible set points in the case of °C and 212 possible set points in the case of °F over the same range.


~Martin


----------



## dcarch

"----This is exactly why controllers such as the Sous Vide Magic  or circulators such as the Anova  are preferred by many.----"

Not only that, the cooking environment can change during cooking.

The water level due to evaporation.

Room temperature.

Relative humidity of the room (which affects evaporative cooling)

Some cities in the summer can have electric "brown outs" supplying you with lower voltage.

A PID controller can deal with all these changes and make corrective/predictive adjustments.

If you are handy, you can configure your sous vide PID controller to also operate your hot electric smoker. Instead of a water pump, hook it up with a fan to go in the smoker.

dcarch


----------



## wade

Mine is a PID controller so maybe that is masking any difference between C and F temperature control. They are so inexpensive that it just seemed the obvious thing to go for.


----------



## brandon91

Chefsteps on youtube does some great things with sousvide. 

 

Can you imagine!? I need to get me one of those Wall O Fires.


----------



## wade

Serious Cooking - It looks like a giant sized Doner Kebab - LOL. That wall of fire was certainly producing a LOT of heat. I think our local Fire Brigade would have something to say if I lit one of those in my back yard...


----------



## johnduoh

As I chose to go with a sous vide magic (pre the availibty of circulatory such as $199 Avona or Sansaire)  I have found a big difference in temperature variance (up to one degre celcius)depending on the cooking vessel being used , and this is with a controller built to a very strict tolerance of .1C of vairence.   Using a controller that has a 1.1 celcius degree vairence  will give you a cooking temp up to roughly 3 degrees off.  Is this good enough? Does 3 degrees really matter? Is it worth the $100+ dollars more?  Bear with me but IMHO this situation is similar to the "if your not using a chamber vac it isn't really Sous Vide cooking argument."

Fact is a $1000 chamber vac machine will give you a better finished product than a $40 food saver. However it's not enough of a difference for anyone that thinks many hundred dollars is worth a small increase in quality.

The reverse of this is, is it worth the $100 dollars you save to DIY a less accurate and reliable Sous Vide set up? With the cost of a serious quality imersion circulatory having dropped to less than $200 IMHO for the small diffence is cost vs. the large difference in quality just isn't woth it to not spend the money.  Accurate temp comtrol is rhe backbone to SV cooking.  It's the same reason I would shell out the $450 for a Sous Vide Magic machine that at that price still isn't accurate to the recommended .1 celcius.  To clarify I'm not saying you can't make great food with any above mentioned set up. I am saying as some one who early adopted on this newer cooking equipment I would not want anyone to walk the same path I did when there are multiple better, safer, more accurate options out there.  Please understand I am not trying troll the DIYers on this thread, just trying to save some people a few dollars and a lot of research. If your already looking at or around $100 plus many hours of time for a less effective cooker why buy it?


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Johnduoh said:


> Accurate temp comtrol is rhe backbone to SV cooking.



Exactly!

I haven't had a problem maintaining temperatures with the Sous Vide Magic.....that's confirmed with a pretty good reference thermometer.
I'm very happy with both it and the Anova.



~Martin


----------



## dcarch

brandon91 said:


> Chefsteps on youtube does some great things with sousvide.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine!? I need to get me one of those Wall O Fires.



So who sells food-safe garbage bags that can also take 162F temperature for hours?

Very dramatic setup, but with  that setup, 95% of the heat (fire wood) is wasted. 

I am not sure if you get any smoke flavor on the meat either.

dcarch


----------



## jarjarchef

I love doing the DIY projects for just about anything. However with something like this for home I think I would go the Anova path. For the price diffrence of making one verse buying the Anova immersion circulator. You have a compact, accurate and tested design that works for up to 5 gallons of water at a fairly decent price.

With that said I would suggest using a container that is insulated to help with better temp accuracy. We have seen some temp issue like mentioned earlier depending on the different containers used.


Just a crazy tip....... Don't plug into a switched outlet. It might get turned off and cause you to loose the cook batch......really makes the day suck to start off......I lost 5# of beef short ribs to just that.....


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Insulation certainly helps, in fact, just insulation over the top of a standard vessel or even just something to limit evaporation makes a big difference.
PedroG's post #17 in the following thread shows what kind of difference an insulated cover can make in terms energy consumption...
http://forums.egullet.org/topic/139754-the-electrical-cost-of-doing-sous-vide/

~Martin


----------



## sqwib

jarjarchef said:


> I love doing the DIY projects for just about anything. However with something like this for home I think I would go the Anova path. For the price diffrence of making one verse buying the Anova immersion circulator. You have a compact, accurate and tested design that works for up to 5 gallons of water at a fairly decent price.  _That is sweet, I may pick one up after my Build_
> 
> With that said I would suggest using a container that is insulated to help with better temp accuracy. We have seen some temp issue like mentioned earlier depending on the different containers used. _Im with you on that, Some folks are saying that high temps in stuff like coolers may not be a wise choice, I have no clue and my build is a 54qt Coleman._
> 
> Just a crazy tip....... Don't plug into a switched outlet. It might get turned off and cause you to loose the cook batch......really makes the day suck to start off......I lost 5# of beef short ribs to just that.....


----------



## jarjarchef

I could not find anything about not using a cooler for hot food. I did find several on cooking corn, shrimp, potatoes and other items in coolers by pouring boiling water over top and closing the lid. I would make sure it is a good quality cooler and not a cheap quality one. In catering we use these Cambro products that are basically a different shaped igloo cooler. We go straight from the oven to them with no issues. After a couple hours we still need towels to remove the pans. I don't think the temps used for sous vide cooking will cause much if any issues for a good quality cooler. Just my $0.02.......


----------



## sqwib

jarjarchef said:


> I could not find anything about not using a cooler for hot food. I did find several on cooking corn, shrimp, potatoes and other items in coolers by pouring boiling water over top and closing the lid. I would make sure it is a good quality cooler and not a cheap quality one. In catering we use these Cambro products that are basically a different shaped igloo cooler. We go straight from the oven to them with no issues. After a couple hours we still need towels to remove the pans. I don't think the temps used for sous vide cooking will cause much if any issues for a good quality cooler. Just my $0.02.......


I have read on a few websites (general chit chat) no science, that it may be unsafe at higher temps and you know everything on the web is true, the internet don't lie.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I'm not worried about it and personally think it's fine as well, hell I think I ingested more harmful stuff working on my new sous vide machine, Paint, Tolulene, Grinding and cutting plastic etc...


----------



## diggingdogfarm

The sous vide index on eGullet is also very useful: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/136274-sous-vide-index/
Sous vide has been discussed there probably more than anywhere else.




~Martin


----------



## sqwib

Sous Vide Top Round​ 





 
This is my first Sous Vide top round, some of the family prefer this cut cooked to a medium I prefer medium rare at the most, I set the machine for 134° "medium Rare".

Dinner was planned for around 5:30 and I figured a two hour Sous Vide bath was plenty, but due to unforeseen circumstances the dinner had to sit a bit longer in the bath, about an hour.
 







 

I hate when these are packaged on those foam trays, there's no way to check the meat, luckily these were cryovaced.







Trimming and slicing






 







 

Presear in an oiled skillet 60 - 90 seconds per side.






 







 







 

Salted and tenderized each side, the meat was hit with the Jaccard about ten times each side. A presear is suggested for safety reasons if using a Jaccard type tenderizing method.






 

All fat is trimmed then fried (I suggest removing all the fat before serving the steak unless your going to hit it with a torch during the post sear).






 

Fat is placed in a bag with some ingredients for a gravy, If you want to make a good gravy, you can put the fat on hours and even at a much higher heat before you plan on cooking the steaks.






 







 

Everything is vacuum sealed with weights. The top two packages are the steaks the bottom pack is the fat and gravy ingredients with two end cut steaks.






 


Temp was set to 134°









Meat is removed from the bath.








All drippings and the gravy bag are poured into a pot on low heat, a little vermouth is added then ran through a sieve. 






 






 








Post searing the steaks. If you have any fat on the sides of the steaks, either trim the fat off or hit the sides with a torch.









Just the way the family likes'em. I like them more rare, next cook I'm going to drop the temp from 134° to 132°, hopefully that will make everyone happy.


----------



## jarjarchef

Looks like a great plate of food. I would not have any issues with sitting down to a plate like that.

But because I am still learning more about this process i have a question. Why the steps before the vaccum sealing? I know they are to tenderize, but the sous vide process in my understanding is supposed to make the meat very tender.

BTW I love the weights!!!!


----------



## sqwib

jarjarchef said:


> Looks like a great plate of food. I would not have any issues with sitting down to a plate like that.
> 
> But because I am still learning more about this process i have a question. Why the steps before the vaccum sealing? I know they are to tenderize, but the sous vide process in my understanding is supposed to make the meat very tender.
> 
> BTW I love the weights!!!!



Cooking in a Sous Vide setup does not neccesarily mean tender. This may be true for LT-LT cooks... Low temp long time. Sort of the same idea behind low and slow.
The presear is two fold. Its a safety thing because you are piercing the outside of the meat pushing to the inside and a presear helps limit the amount of penetration on the post sear.
I hope I answered your question.
If you were referring to the gravy stuff, you don't need to do the post vacuum steps, but it made sense to me at the time. I could have just as easily cooked the fat down on the stove.


----------



## tbstbs

"---Just a crazy tip....... Don't plug into a switched outlet. It might get turned off and cause you to loose the cook batch......really makes the day suck to start off......I lost 5# of beef short ribs to just that....."

_Good tip. However, you should plug into a GFP outlet anyway, which is generally not switched._

"---With that said I would suggest using a container that is insulated to help with better temp accuracy.----"

_  _

_It is a very good idea to have good insulation for the container. I may be wrong, but I don't think that has anything to do with temperature accuracy, which is supposedly controlled by the PID electronic logic. That is one of the reasons why you need a PID controller. Good insulation will allow faster water temperature rise, and will save you energy cost._

_  _

_  _

_TBSTBS_


----------



## sqwib

Giving this a Bump.

*Sous Vide - Smoked London Broil and Chuck Steak*
 ​












*.... and Stew*​
*




*​*Sous Vide - Buffalo Wings*
 







*Sous Vide Venison Roast*


----------



## sqwib

Damm sorry about the pic size.


----------



## jarjarchef

Very nice looking food ya got there Thumbs Up


----------



## tj333

jarjarchef said:


> Not an expert here. Only done a few things Sous Vide. The company I work for their Food Safety Team is not a huge supporter of this cooking style. They allow a couple kitchens to play with it while they come up with a safe process for it. But the kitchen I currently work in was able to purchase one. It is the PolyScience Sous Vide Professional Chef one. It is a model where we can attach it to just about any container. I will say this model has a very high water flow, actually a bit too much and usually tone it down a bit for the size of container we use.
> 
> Just tossing out ideas for a water flow method. What if you were to use a magnetic driven water pump for an aquarium for the circulation. Maybe use a cooler with two cambers, one for the food and another for the heater. Put the thermometer probe in the food chamber to be monitored. Another thought is to again use a cooler, but put the heater and aquarium pump inside a 6" PVC casing with holes to allow the water flow, again the probe in the food section for more accurate temp monitoring............. I really like the flexibility the model we have gives us verse the box styles........
> 
> 
> I am very interested in this and look forward to learning.
> 
> I agree with what was said about food safety. It is all in the freshness and handling. Use only fresh properly handled products and you will lessen the chances of food born illnesses greatly.........


First, great thread, guys - great idea to start it.  In the interests of full disclosure, I'm a sous vide convert and I own a Sansaire immersion circulator, and am a Kickstarter backer for both the Searzall (torch attachment) and the Anova 2 (end generation Anova immersion circulator).  I am not an employee of nor do I have a financial interest in any of the companies mentioned in this thread.

The food safety issue is a valid one, but as long as you follow guidelines, the food is just as safe (in many cases, safer) than food prepared by another method.

The fear with Sous Vide cooking is the meat staying in the "danger zone" - between 40 and 140 degrees - too long and will allow the bacteria to multiply to unsafe levels.  For simplicity, let's talk chicken...chicken is unsafe to eat unless it reaches an internal temperature of 165 degrees, right?  Yes...for traditional methods.  The problem is with grilling chicken, you cook it until it's done and then take it off - you can't maintain a set temperature for the meat because the heat source is always going to be a higher temperature than the food.  Knowing this, we are all taught to cook chicken to at least 165 degrees to kill the salmonella - and at 165 degrees and beyond, salmonella is instantly killed.  However, you can cook chicken at 130 degrees and as long as it is held at 130 degrees for 112 minutes or more, you have the EXACT same sterilization of the food as at 165 degrees.  Take a look at this chart - it's published by the FDA, and it shows just how dramatically the hold time reduces with temperature:


*Center temperature*

*Hold time*

130ºF

112 minutes

140ºF

11 minutes

150ºF

1 minute

155ºF

5 seconds

158ºF

instant (less than 1 second)

If you've never tasted chicken that's been cooked at 140 degrees, you're missing out (130 is too moist for me...can't describe it, but it just kinda weirded me out).  

In a perfect world, a temp probe in the food would be great - it's just not practical.  You have to seal the food from the water, and I don't know anyone (yet - I'm probably passing on yet another million dollar idea here) who makes a wireless probe that could be completely enclosed in the bag...though you could make it small and rechargeable and have it transmit the temp via blue tooth...Hmmm....kickstarter project, anyone?  If you pay attention to the timing, you really don't need the probe - if you can maintain the water at a 140 degree temperature, anything you insert into it is going to reach that temperature or the temperature in the bath will reduce - don't rush it and make sure you give it enough time to get to proper temp and then hold the temp and it's perfectly safe.

That being said, sous vide cooking isn't for everybody, and if someone does something they shouldn't, the food could be dangerous.  It remains important to observe proper food handling guidelines.  Done correctly, sous vide increases food safety and is 100% replicable because you're eliminating so many of the variables.


----------



## dcarch

I am not sure why you need to measure IT of food in a sous vide cooker.

Food in a bag inside a circulating hot water container that is controlled by a PID controller, it is impossible for it not to reach and maintain exact (+- 1 degree F/C) temperature. That is one of the beauties of cooking sous vide. No more poking probing around.

dcarch


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Tj333 said:


> In a perfect world, a temp probe in the food would be great - it's just not practical.  You have to seal the food from the water, and I don't know anyone (yet - I'm probably passing on yet another million dollar idea here) who makes a wireless probe that could be completely enclosed in the bag...though you could make it small and rechargeable and have it transmit the temp via blue tooth...Hmmm....kickstarter project, anyone?


  

All that's needed is some *sealing tape* and *a miniature needle temperature probe*.
The tape facilitates puncture of the bag without leakage.
It works great and it's useful in very accurately timing pasteurization.



Tj333 said:


> ....if someone does something they shouldn't, the food could be dangerous.



But that applies to any type of food preparation, doesn't it? :smile:


~Martin


----------



## angiem

Any thoughts on the SousVide Supreme Water Oven? Looking into buying one.


----------



## jarjarchef

AngieM said:


> Any thoughts on the SousVide Supreme Water Oven? Looking into buying one.



Never used one. It looks like it has good reviews. If I was spending the money I would go with the immersion style and buy a vaccuum sealer to go with it. Then have some money for meats to practice with. But that is only me and my money.


----------



## johnduoh

As to the Sous Vide Supreme (SVS), does it work?  Mostly yes. Is it worth the money? Not at all. I have a PID controlled 22 ltr steam table from my first build and a Avona imersion circulator. The imersion circulation is much more usefull and about $199 vs $300- $400 of a SVS.  If I had to do again I'd buy the Avona (or similar) and if I had that kind of $ to spend on a SVS l would  ook at a chamber vac from a commercial dealer such as the web restaurant store. A chamber vac will not only let you vac liquids to cook and achieve a better level of vacumn, it will also allow you to infuse or marinade items quickly. Something not possible with a food saver vacumn machine. 
INMHO


----------



## squirrel

I have the Sous Vide Supreme. I bought it a few years ago. I have certainly enjoyed it, but I have outgrown it. I am going to purchase the Anova Precision Cooker soon. I also just purchased this chamber vacuum and absolutely love it. The bags are so much cheaper, plus you can vacuum liquids.

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ary...oiSFsjT2Qz4_KXK2undOD6E4iAuxiiQejGRoCReDw_wcB

I love cooking sous vide then finishing with a sear on the grill. Tri tip is my favorite. I'm glad to see so many folks on board with this. I recently received as a gift Thomas Keller's _Under Pressure_ and it is a great book. There's so many online resources now, which is very nice.













IMG_5600.jpg



__ squirrel
__ Jul 27, 2014


















IMG_5609.jpg



__ squirrel
__ Jul 27, 2014


















IMG_5612-2.jpg



__ squirrel
__ Jul 27, 2014


----------



## shtrdave

All this stuff looks great, I bought one of the Sous Vide Supremes during their open box sale, I have not used it yet just got it.

I would like to see more about those wings SQWIB.

I need to take time and make a spot for it on the counter.


----------



## sqwib

Squirrel, great looking grub, congrats on the future purchase, your gonna love the immersion circulators.

Love your sealer that is something I would love to get my hands on.


----------



## sqwib

shtrdave said:


> All this stuff looks great, I bought one of the Sous Vide Supremes during their open box sale, I have not used it yet just got it.
> 
> I would like to see more about those wings SQWIB.
> 
> I need to take time and make a spot for it on the counter.


Here ya Go!


----------



## fatty patty

Any man on here who prefers French underwater bag cooking to low and slow wood smoking might want to question his sexuality? Seriously. If it's the end result then use an oven. If it's time honored, fire tending, smoke smelling, skillful cooking labor,then your're in the right place. I'd suggest running away from this cooking technique faster than the French ran away from the Germans.


----------



## daveomak

YEOWZA !!!!!!    I'm glad I'm not on this thread........    Said like a true PATRIOT .....   AMEN........


----------



## brandon91

I've never actually read anything that ignorant on these forums, that is if it was serious.


----------



## dirtsailor2003

If I brought home or had another cooker project my wife would kill me! But those darn photos Sqwib is make it tempting. She has requested a hot tub, sous vide whole hog anyone!!!


----------



## jarjarchef

I am game Case!

Maybe we can use one of those huge vacuum bags for the bankets to seal the hog in. It might take a few days to get the full effect. Maybe a way to kill time you can teach me the fine art of the "Mini". I have a pretty decent pizza dough recipe. Been known to be diverse enough to be able to cook more then BBQ. I have also been playing with a concept dish of Fried Chicken and Dumplings. 













IMG_4063.JPG



__ jarjarchef
__ Jul 28, 2014


----------



## sqwib

fatty patty said:


> Any man on here who prefers French underwater bag cooking to low and slow wood smoking might want to question his sexuality? Seriously. If it's the end result then use an oven. If it's time honored, fire tending, smoke smelling, skillful cooking labor,then your're in the right place. I'd suggest running away from this cooking technique faster than the French ran away from the Germans.





brandon91 said:


> I've never actually read anything that ignorant on these forums, that is if it was serious.


Yep even ignorant folks are entitled to their opinion, just wish they wouldn't clutter up an ongoing USEFUL thread such as this with USELESS statements.

Its a shame but his insults were threefold, suprised the Mods haven't jumped on this one as I am sure it violates forum Policy.

Therefore, you agree not to post, email, or otherwise make available Postings:

that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, *harassing, defamatory,* pornographic, libelous, or invasive of another's privacy, or harmful to minors in any way;
*that harass, degrade, intimidate or are hateful toward an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity,* age, or disability;
that include personal or identifying information about another person without that person's explicit consent.
that are false, deceptive, misleading, deceitful, misinformative, constitute "bait and switch" or impersonation of any person or entity;
contain your own or a third party's advertising, branding or promotional content;
that infringe any proprietary rights, including copyright, of any party, or Postings that you do not have a right to make available;
restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Huddler or Smoking Meat Forums sites or the Huddler or Smoking Meat Forums services offered on them.


----------



## sqwib

fatty patty said:


> Any man on here who prefers French underwater bag cooking to low and slow wood smoking might want to question his sexuality? *Seriously.* If it's the end result then use an oven. If it's time honored, fire tending, smoke smelling, skillful cooking labor,then your're in the right place. I'd suggest running away from this cooking technique faster than the French ran away from the Germans.





brandon91 said:


> I've never actually read anything that ignorant on these forums, that is* if it was serious.*


Think so


DaveOmak said:


> YEOWZA !!!!!! I'm glad I'm not on this thread........ Said like a true PATRIOT ..... AMEN........


Dave this statement really saddens me


----------



## sqwib

jarjarchef said:


> I am game Case!
> 
> Maybe we can use one of those huge vacuum bags for the bankets to seal the hog in. It might take a few days to get the full effect. Maybe a way to kill time you can teach me the fine art of the "Mini". I have a pretty decent pizza dough recipe. Been known to be diverse enough to be able to cook more then BBQ. I have also been playing with a concept dish of Fried Chicken and Dumplings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_4063.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ jarjarchef
> __ Jul 28, 2014


If you are serious, to be safe, read up on it a bit more because thickness of meat comes into play when Sous Vide Cooking.


----------



## daveomak

faster than the French ran away from the Germans.     ++++      Said like a true PATRIOT ..... AMEN........   


The response was about the French.... and how we died to cover their behinds....  the rest of (fatty patty's) post is garbage....  Should have been deleted by a mod....    

*fatty patty* must be someone's brother/sister-in-law.....




Sorry for not making that clear....   I'm an idiot at times and you ALL know it....


----------



## atomicsmoke

DaveOmak said:


> YEOWZA !!!!!!    I'm glad I'm not on this thread........    Said like a true PATRIOT .....   AMEN........



Yep. That's what makes a true patriot...not using French sounding cooking techniques. 

That makes all andouille makers...what?


----------



## daveomak

atomicsmoke said:


> Yep. That's what makes a true patriot...not using French sounding cooking techniques.
> 
> That makes all andouille makers...what?





Hey, smoke......   You got a dog in this fight ????????


----------



## sqwib

DaveOmak said:


> faster than the French ran away from the Germans. ++++ Said like a true PATRIOT ..... AMEN........
> 
> 
> The response was about the French.... and how we died to cover their behinds.... the rest of (fatty patty's) post is garbage.... Should have been deleted by a mod....
> 
> *fatty patty* must be someone's brother/sister-in-law.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for not making that clear.... I'm an idiot at times and you ALL know it....


Got it, thanks


----------



## atomicsmoke

Edited: nothing important to say


----------



## diggingdogfarm

SQWIB said:


> fatty patty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any man on here who prefers French underwater bag cooking to low and slow wood smoking might want to question his sexuality? Seriously. If it's the end result then use an oven. If it's time honored, fire tending, smoke smelling, skillful cooking labor,then your're in the right place. I'd suggest running away from this cooking technique faster than the French ran away from the Germans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brandon91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never actually read anything that ignorant on these forums, that is if it was serious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep even ignorant folks are entitled to their opinion, just wish they wouldn't clutter up an ongoing USEFUL thread such as this with USELESS statements.
> Its a shame but his insults were threefold, suprised the Mods haven't jumped on this one as I am sure it violates forum Policy.
> 
> Therefore, you agree not to post, email, or otherwise make available Postings:
> 
> that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, *harassing, defamatory,* pornographic, libelous, or invasive of another's privacy, or harmful to minors in any way;
> *that harass, degrade, intimidate or are hateful toward an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity,* age, or disability;
> that include personal or identifying information about another person without that person's explicit consent.
> that are false, deceptive, misleading, deceitful, misinformative, constitute "bait and switch" or impersonation of any person or entity;
> contain your own or a third party's advertising, branding or promotional content;
> that infringe any proprietary rights, including copyright, of any party, or Postings that you do not have a right to make available;
> restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Huddler or Smoking Meat Forums sites or the Huddler or Smoking Meat Forums services offered on them.
Click to expand...


I agree but it doesn't bother me a bit, I actually love to set back and watch some  folks wallow in their willful ignorance. It makes me smile! :biggrin:


~Martin


----------



## dcarch

Please, please, please leave that post alone!

So that I can come back to it again and again whenever I need to have a good laugh.

dcarch ( going now to check my sexuality)


----------



## tj333

Call me an effeminate Frenchman if you would like, but  I have a question for those still interested in the original topic...what are your thoughts / experience with rubs and sous vide? I've played around with several different combinations / methods and have noticed the steak is much juicier if I season after the bath....but then I don't get the flavor of the rub through the steak as much. I thoguht the solution might be to cook, season then sear but that didn't quite give what I was looking for. Now contemplating making two varieties of rub - one with salt and one without, the intention being to rub without salt, cook, rub with salt then sear.

Anyone have any thoughts / experience?


----------



## sqwib

For chicken I have found that fresh herbs penetrate well.
For beef and pork I have been very conservative with spices so I can't reallygive aadvice on this other than be conservative with spicing prior to sous vide. Some things may have a negative impact on flavor.
What I have been doing that gives better mouth feel and flavor is to pre sear Sous vide then sear again. Believe it or not you have less heat penetration on the post sear if you presear resulting in a more even cooking.
I have tried teriyaki and smoking prior to Sous vide as well and neither was any better than the ones without seasoning.
If I have time I will post my last chicken cook


----------



## johnduoh

I've found the same as SQWIB with pre-sear and post sear combinations. As to herbs or rubs I find that to get penetration into beef, pork, chicken you usually need some fat and salt to act as a delivery vehicle to get flavor into the meat.  However some things such as garlic do often not taste as good as other techniques.  I've tried marinade, pre-sear, and post for pork / tougher beef cuts and been impressed with marinades that have a lot of flavor but don't have a lot of acid or you end up with mushy protien by the time it's done.


----------



## jarjarchef

SQWIB said:


> If you are serious, to be safe, read up on it a bit more because thickness of meat comes into play when Sous Vide Cooking.



No I took what Case said as joking with his wife. I do not think using a hot tub would be safe. Funny, but not safe. I could see it now as you walk out with a whole hog in a vaccuum bag and try to place it in a hot tub while a couple are sitting in there. The expression on thier faces would be priceless. 


As for the seasoning I would agree with Sqwib and JohnDuoh on their findings on timing and delivery.  We have done duck and chicken confit that was the best I have ever had and it used way less fat to do it and was extremely tender.


----------



## sqwib

Johnduoh said:


> I've found the same as SQWIB with pre-sear and post sear combinations. As to herbs or rubs I find that to get penetration into beef, pork, chicken you usually need some fat and salt to act as a delivery vehicle to get flavor into the meat. However some things such as garlic do often not taste as good as other techniques. I've tried marinade, pre-sear, and post for pork / tougher beef cuts and been impressed with marinades that have a lot of flavor but don't have a lot of acid or you end up with mushy protien by the time it's done.


Absolutely, I should have mentioned that in my earlier post


jarjarchef said:


> No I took what Case said as joking with his wife. I do not think using a hot tub would be safe. Funny, but not safe. I could see it now as you walk out with a whole hog in a vaccuum bag and try to place it in a hot tub while a couple are sitting in there. The expression on thier faces would be priceless.
> 
> 
> As for the seasoning I would agree with Sqwib and JohnDuoh on their findings on timing and delivery. We have done duck and chicken confit that was the best I have ever had and it used way less fat to do it and was extremely tender.


I figured you were, but you never know, I've seen crazier things


----------



## sqwib

As promised.

*July 19th, 2014*


*"Sous Vide Chicken Breast "*
 







This was an experiment on cooking temps, time and flavor profile.
 

Chicken breasts were trimmed and sliced down to chunks.
The fat was added back to the bag, this helps transfer heat better and in my opinion helps with moisture retention, mingles the flavors and aids in flavor penetration, think of_ Confit,_ well sort of.

Breasts were cooked for 3 hours at 165°
 

I was very conservative with the spices as to not overpower the chicken. I really wanted to try a rosemary profile, but my rosemary plant isn't doing well, oh well, maybe next time.
 

All the chicken came out great everyone liked the texture and flavor, the Sage chicken won out for flavor, personally I thought that all the chicken was a bit spongy and I am sure this has to do with the temp and time. I am so programmed to cook chicken to 165° that I did not venture outside my comfort zone.

These chicken breasts should have either been cooked at 165° for 30 minutes - 60 minutes max, or at a lower temp for two hours such as 145° or even lower.

But that is why I have been experimenting and will need to do a lot more.
 

I was extremely satisfied with this cook and can't wait to try more flavor profiles and mess with lowrr temps and cooking times.

 
*Plain*

Salt
Butter







 

*Honey Mustard*

Honey
Mustard
Butter
Salt







 
 
*Basil, Sundried Tomatoes*

Fresh Basil
Fresh Chives
Sundried Tomatoes in olive oil
Butter
Salt







 
*Sage, Oregano, Sundried Tomatoes*

Fresh Sage
Fresh Oregano
Sundried Tomatoes in olive oil
Butter
Salt






 

Four samples ready for the heated bath, I did not use my Immersion circulator on this batch, i used my homemade controller and roasting pan...so easy!








 

After the bath, all chicken is browned on a hot cast iron skillet with olive oil then labeled and plated for testing.

 
*Plain*






 
*Honey Mustard*






 

*Basil, Sundried Tomatoes*






 
*Sage, Oregano, Sundried Tomatoes*


----------



## gerk

Wanted to chime in on this one as I have a good bit of experience with Sous Vide and have some things that I've discovered over the last couple of years doing it to add to the conversation.

*Fat Component*

This is critical.  It doesn't matter if it's fillet or the toughest piece of beef known to exist ... you need proper fat component for things to work.  The leaner meats, like fillet for example, need some help.  For these types of sous vide cooks I keep around some rendered beef fat -- I always render up my own when trimming up large pieces of beef (I often buy large wholesale pieces cryovac style from Costco or the butcher and do some of the end bits myself).  Rendered beef fat for beef, bacon grease for pork (and even some beef too, depending on the flavour you are looking for), and duck fat for any poultry ... these have been the best combinations in my experience.  The "tougher" bits of meat tend to come with a good bit of their own fat in the marbling ... but it doesn't generally hurt to add more to these ones either.

*Butter*

Butter, while yummy, is actually not a great choice for any long/slow cooks, nor is anything else dairy.  Even though you're not passing the temperatures required it often breaks.  If you want to add this type of component to your bags before cooking use some evoo.  Even for fast cooks I try to avoid butter.  Try doing some A/B if you are skeptical of this and you'll find that the butter really changes things in a bad way.

*Salt*

I feel very strongly on this one as do a lot of high end chefs apparently.  DO NOT pre-salt meat before cooking sous vide, at least not directly.  If you have meat that you feel really needs the salt ahead of time brine it, but again DO NOT add salt directly to the bags.  This massively changes the texture of pretty much all meat when using this technique, and generally not in a good way.  Again if you are skeptical on this one do some A/B testing for yourself.  And yes I know that things like beef really really need to salt ... but you would be surprised how far some really nice finish salt goes after you're rested and sliced.  If you really feel the need to get it in and through the meat before then you can inject at the resting phase as well (in fact that might be a perfectly appropriate time for butter depending on your tastes).

*Garlic*

Again this one is a no-no.  If you need to use garlic for sous vide use powdered garlic.  Fresh garlic will turn very metallic and will change the whole flavour (and sometimes even the texture) of your dish, this is amplified by longer cooking times.

*Long and Slow vs Fast Cook and Temperature choices*

This can be a doozy and I won't try to cover tons of it here, but a good rule to follow is to base your cooking time on a) how much fat content is within the meat itself (not added to the bag) and b) what kind of texture are you looking for?  I see lots of people online that just assume if you cook anything for a ton of time sous vide it's going to make it better.  That can't be farther from the truth!  Lean cuts will cook quickly and will not benefit from longer cooking times -- in fact they will quickly get mushy and you will ruin the flavour of them.  Things like fillet/tenderloin, prime rib, strip loin, and even round only really need to come up to temperature.  Save the longer cooks for tougher bits that have a good bit of collagens to break down (like brisket, blade, etc).  Cooking a lean piece of meat for longer than it takes to come up to temperature is going to do nothing except ruin it's texture, but cooking a tougher piece of meat for an appropriate amount of time on a long cook and breaking down all the collagens can do wonders :)

And as probably has been mentioned many times all over this forum ... FOOD SAFETY IS VERY IMPORTANT!  Especially with anything you are doing long and slow.  Keep a very clean environment when working with this sort of stuff, hit your target temperatures within your safety window (get up to 140 within 4 hours max!), and when doing large pieces of meat sous vide there are really easy to use and cheap to get apps for your portable devices that will help with time calculation (and even show you graphs on when all the pathogens are dead, etc).


----------



## gerk

Here's something I just loooooove to do in the sous vide, Tomato Confit.













tomatoes-confit.jpeg



__ gerk
__ Aug 8, 2014


----------



## shtrdave

So how do we do the Tomato thing in the pic? I like tomatoes.
I need to bust mine cooker out of the box and use it.


----------



## gerk

Fresh tomatoes (hothouse are just not the same), peel them and remove the end core (easy to do if you cut an X in the bottom of them and then heat with a torch/open flame).  Put in sous vide bag with a few tbsp of evoo and fresh herbs -- I like basil and oregano personally but lots of options there.  Seal up the bag and cook at 183F for 3-4 hours.  They make a great accompaniment for just about any meat but especially so with beef.  They are bursting with very big tomato (and whatever herb you add) flavour and just melt in your mouth.

EDIT:  And salt and some course pepper to taste (I like a 4 pepper mix as opposed to straight black or red personally), this is not meat so no worries about the texture changes, you will want a bit of salt in this one.


----------



## gerk

They also freeze and reheat really nicely.   To reheat from frozen just drop them into the sous video for about 30-40 minutes at just about any temp (below 180F so you don't cook them again).  That makes them easy to add on to just about any other sous vide cook you might have going on for a fast side dish that's super yummy :)

I like to get a couple big baskets of tomatoes when they are in season and cheap and do them all up in a big batch and freeze them.  So nice to pull out such wonderful tomato flavour in the middle of a long, cold winter ... or at least for those of that have long cold winters! :)


----------



## jarjarchef

I like the tomato process. Will have to try it. Thamk you for the great info.


----------



## sqwib

Gerk.... awesome post... thanks for adding to this discussion.
Little I knew and lots I learned. I will take your advice my next Sous Vide cook.
Thanks again


----------



## gerk

Glad to add to the vast fountain of knowledge here!  Hope it helps out some people.

If it hasn't been mentioned here in this thread before this guy really knows his stuff in terms of the mechanics of it all (which is super helpful if you were w "why" kid like me) :D

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

I bought his book just to support his, I referred to his website so often in the early sous vide cooks, and still do for things now and then.


----------



## smok

Gerk said:


> Save the longer cooks for tougher bits that have a good bit of collagens to break down (like brisket, blade, etc).




 Can you give an overview of your process for a brisket?


----------



## gerk

Smok said:


> Can you give an overview of your process for a brisket?


Well if you want a more traditional type of brisket I would honestly do it in a smoker :)  But if you want to do that type of cut (set aside all the traditional brisket flavour like you would do on a smoker) I would do a long slow cook for it, maybe 12-24 hours depending on what you're going for.  Fairly high temperature, say 160F-170F as you want it mostly well done.  For the fat component -- which technically you don't need much of when doing this type of cut as it has a lot of marbling already either rendered beef fat or a couple of teaspoons of rendered bacon fat (make sure to strain it).  I also like a couple of tablespoons of Worcestershire with most beef dishes sous-vide, it adds a bit of zip to things without being overkill.  

One of the things with sous vide that's easy to mess up at first is the fact that you don't need to add a lot to the bag to make it work, small amounts of any spice or add on component are generally enough because they are evenly distributed around the bag when you vacuum seal it.  That's one of the reasons why a traditional type of confit (like the tomato one above or even duck, etc) are easy to accomplish because you don't need a full pot of oil to submerge your food in -- just a few tablespoons.  Another tip is to use fresh herbs where possible, they work really really well as aromatics in sous vide -- think fresh rosemary, oregano, mint, dill, sage, etc.  But beef I tend to like the meaty flavour, I typically only add aromatics to pork, poultry, etc.

Hope this helps.

For good reading material on sous vide in general you can also google Thomas Keller's "Under Pressure: Cooking Sous Vide" ... it's pretty much the sous vide bible for the high end stuff.  it's not cheap but it's worth it if you want to understand more of the process and how to mix and blend flavours with that process.


----------



## gerk

I also wanted to add that a dry rub (used sparingly) can go a long way to add flavour to sous vide meat .. just watch out for the salt content.


----------



## smok

Gerk said:


> Well if you want a more traditional type of brisket I would honestly do it in a smoker :)


Thanks. Brisket is fantastic fresh off the smoker but I am the opposite after a long cook; tired, older and wasted. I love brisket when I don't have to cook it. Ha. 

I thought this might be an alternative to the 19 hour battle; get the meat cooked then finish it over the hickory.


----------



## daveomak

If you are looking for an alternative to the 19 hour battle.......   You found it in "Sous Vide".....     51 + hours.....  


https://www.polyscienceculinary.com/blog/time-and-temperature-reference/

BEEF     
Tenderloin 138°F / 59°C  2 inches 1 hour, 58 min 5 hours, 35 min 
Rib Eye Steak 138°F / 59°C  1.5 inches 1 hour, 58 min 3 hours, 20 min 
Strip Steak 138°F / 59°C  1.5 inches 1 hour, 58 min  3 hours, 20 min 
Porterhouse Steak 138°F / 59°C  1.5 inches 1 hour, 58 min  3 hours, 20 min 
*Brisket  147°F / 64°C  48 Hours* 3 hours, 21 min* 
Veal Shank 167°F / 75°C  12-24 Hours* 9 hours, 03 min


----------



## gerk

DaveOmak said:


> If you are looking for an alternative to the 19 hour battle....... You found it in "Sous Vide"..... 51 + hours.....
> 
> 
> https://www.polyscienceculinary.com/blog/time-and-temperature-reference/
> 
> BEEF
> Tenderloin 138°F / 59°C 2 inches 1 hour, 58 min 5 hours, 35 min
> Rib Eye Steak 138°F / 59°C 1.5 inches 1 hour, 58 min 3 hours, 20 min
> Strip Steak 138°F / 59°C 1.5 inches 1 hour, 58 min 3 hours, 20 min
> Porterhouse Steak 138°F / 59°C 1.5 inches 1 hour, 58 min 3 hours, 20 min
> *Brisket 147°F / 64°C 48 Hours* 3 hours, 21 min*
> Veal Shank 167°F / 75°C 12-24 Hours* 9 hours, 03 min


The problem is with those types of general temperatures and times is that they rarely get it right IMHO.  At 147F for 48 hours the meat will end up with a terrible texture and will likely take on some of that "powdery" taste that I really really hate.  Some people apparently can't even taste it but me and the Mrs certainly can.  Also that's going to get you right about medium in terms of doneness .... I like my brisket more well done than that personally and I like it to have a little more "bite", not just a big pile of mush.

Polyscience make great hardware (I own some), but their recipes honestly leave a lot to be desired.  I also object to their timing for other things on there too ... 2 hours for a piece of NY strip, Tenderloin or Porterhouse is a crime, not to mention 12-24 hours for a veal shank!  Blasphemy! LOL


----------



## daveomak

Gerk said:


> The problem is with those types of general temperatures and times is that they rarely get it right IMHO.  At 147F for 48 hours the meat will end up with a terrible texture and will likely take on some of that "powdery" taste that I really really hate.  Some people apparently can't even taste it but me and the Mrs certainly can.  Also that's going to get you right about medium in terms of doneness .... I like my brisket more well done than that personally and I like it to have a little more "bite", not just a big pile of mush.
> 
> Polyscience make great hardware (I own some), but their recipes honestly leave a lot to be desired.  I also object to their timing for other things on there too ... 2 hours for a piece of NY strip, Tenderloin or Porterhouse is a crime, not to mention 12-24 hours for a veal shank!  Blasphemy! LOL



I haven't read all of your posts, but.....   Are there recipes that are better than others and where can they be found ....   besides your personal folder...   HAHAHA


----------



## gerk

This is a good place to start: http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html -- while flavour wise I don't find a lot of his stuff exciting he has the mechanics down pat and does a good job explaining all of them.  He does a really good job also explaining the science behind the time/temperature debate. I think that he does some beef chuck at lower and higher temps and shows you the difference first hand.

As for other recipes I like some of the stuff from nom-nom paleo (mostly, sometimes she does things a bit weird) -- but also remember that she is mostly doing grass fed meats which tend to require more cooking time and adding additional fats (which she doesn't do all that often), but she does come up with some nice flavour blends at times:  http://nomnompaleo.com/recipeindex

Lastly, while I love Thomas Keller stuff, I do find that a lot of his recipes are pretty stuffy/stuck in oldschool (if there's such a thing with Sous Vide).  Do some googling and compare for yourself.  You'll find a lot of people that are just posting things like "48 hour beef brisket" type things that they did because Thomas Keller or someone else important said so -- and then they don't do it with super high quality grain fed beef and it turns into mush and they don't know why .... and then you'll find the people that tell you to salt everything ... and then you'll find the rare, rare gems of real high end chefs that are on the cutting edge and have done tons of experimentation, but those guys don't let out their secrets quite as easily as some others.  After all they probably spent a couple years and who knows how much in meat getting it right, trade secrets you know ;)  Those are the guys that don't pre-salt things.  The best quote I saw in a youtube video about that was some high end NY chef testing out a Sous Vide Supreme and comparing it to his immersion circulator, the interviewer (who wasn't that great to start with) asks him about salting the meat ahead of time and he replies that he never does it because it "changes the texture" in a not so nice way (and he is right).  What that salting really ends up doing is drawing all of the moisture out of the meat and into the bag, so all of your juiciness is lost and you're left with tougher, drier meat.  If you do this on long cooks that also leads a lot more to that powdery sort of taste.


----------



## daveomak

Thank you......   Dave


----------



## squirrel

dcarch said:


> Please, please, please leave that post alone!
> 
> So that I can come back to it again and again whenever I need to have a good laugh.
> 
> dcarch ( *going now to check my sexuality*)


----------



## sqwib

Gerk said:


> The best quote I saw in a youtube video about that was some high end NY chef testing out a Sous Vide Supreme and comparing it to his immersion circulator, the interviewer (who wasn't that great to start with) asks him about salting the meat ahead of time and he replies that he never does it because it "changes the texture" in a not so nice way (and he is right).  What that salting really ends up doing is drawing all of the moisture out of the meat and into the bag, so all of your juiciness is lost and you're left with tougher, drier meat.  If you do this on long cooks that also leads a lot more to that powdery sort of taste.


Gerk, pretty interesting stuff, but I have to disagree with the above statement, I add a few pinches of salt right before sealing and never had dry meat, quite the contrary.

Yes salt will pull moisture initially but it is reabsorbed due to osmosis. Salt helps the cells of the meat hold on to water. Plus I have found it aids in the penetration of herbs and spices.

Basically similar to brining.

*From Science of Cooking.*

_Brining meat (that is, putting meat into a salt-water solution) adds moisture to the meat through osmosis. Osmosis happens when water flows from a lower concentration of a solution to a higher concentration through a semipermeable membrane. In meat, this membrane is the plasma membrane that surrounds the individual cells. When meat is placed in a brine, the meat's cell fluids are less concentrated than the salt water in the brining solution. Water flows out of the cells in the meat and salt flows in. The salt then dissolves some of the fiber proteins, and the meat's cell fluids become more concentrated, thus drawing water back in. Brining adds salt and water to the cells so that when the meat is cooked and water is squeezed out, there is still water left in the cells because water was added before cooking._

Anyhow, this has been my results.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

FWIW,
A lot of folks who prefer pre-salting in other forms of cooking find that pre-salting negatively affects meat when cooked sous vide.....
http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/10/12/to-salt-or-not-to-salt-thats-the-searing-question/

It's been discussed ad nauseum on eGullet, ChefSteps and other venues.
To each his own.

~Martin


----------



## sqwib

*Interesting Read Martin, thanks for posting*

A rib-eye was salted, seared, placed in a vacuum bag, and cooked at 55 C for 1.5 hours, chilled, stored for two days, rethermed at 52C for one hour, seared, and served (*Salted Cook-Chill*).
A rib-eye was seared without salting, placed in a vacuum bag, cooked at 55 C for 1.5 hours, chilled, stored for two days, rethermed at 52C for one hour, seared, salted, and served (*Unsalted Cook-Chill*).
A rib-eye was salted, seared, placed in a vacuum bag, and cooked at 55 C for 1.5 hours, dropped to 52 C and held for one hour, seared, and served (*Salted Direct-Serve*).
*Results:*

The panel easily and unanimously correctly distinguished between the salted and unsalted cook-chill meats. As expected, the salted meats were firmer, and had a more cured color than the unsalted. *Everyone preferred the unsalted meat*. The panelists were also all able to distinguish between the salted direct-serve meat and the unsalted cook-chill. Here, the panelists also preferred the unsalted cook chill, because *the direct-serve steak, although juicier than the cook-chill steak, had a stringier texture*. *The differences between these two steaks were not as stark as with the salted and unsalted cook-chill meats. In my opinion, the differences between these two could simply be due to inter-steak variation. More tests are in order.*

*The Upshot:*

*If you are serving your meats within a couple of hours, salt before you sear –it’ll be great.* If your service is many hours or days away, lay off the salt till service time.


----------



## smok

Gerk said:


> You'll find a lot of people that are just posting things like "48 hour beef brisket" type things that they did because Thomas Keller or someone else important said so --


This open-ended time reference made me chuckle: 

http://www.sousviderecipes.net/beef/sous-vide-beef-brisket

Sous Vide Beef Brisket Recipe/Time

Bring your sous vide setup up to the proper temperature (see chart below).
Cut it into portions.
Put the beef brisket into individual bags, along with a cooking fat like butter or olive oil, as well as some salt
Seal the bag and place it in the water bath for some time.
Remove the bag from the water bath, and the beef brisket from the bag.


----------



## gerk

That particular site is horrible for that, I think that they say that for pretty much every recipe they post :)


----------



## gerk

DiggingDogFarm said:


> FWIW,
> A lot of folks who prefer pre-salting in other forms of cooking find that pre-salting negatively affects meat when cooked sous vide.....
> http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/10/12/to-salt-or-not-to-salt-thats-the-searing-question/
> 
> It's been discussed ad nauseum on eGullet, ChefSteps and other venues.
> To each his own.
> 
> ~Martin


Thanks for posting this Martin.  I am with the "no salt" crowd, but it's definitely a personal preference.  I've done the tests myself and can say for sure that I prefer not salting before cooking sous vide and going with finishing salt.  Unlike their tests I test with steaks cooked side-by-side cut from the same cow ;)  That takes some of the guess work out of the whole situation as the multiple pieces of meat are about as similar as possible when they came off the same cut of beef and were side-by-side until my knives make it different.

I urge people to try for themselves and see what they think.  For me, even when serving right away, I find that the meat is definitely stringier/tougher when pre-salted, but some people may prefer that type of texture as well.  Test for yourselves an an A-B is the only way to see what the differences are.


----------



## sqwib

You guys are gonna make me a no-salt convert, next round of Sous Vide Beef I'm gonna try some testing as you suggest Gerk


----------



## addertooth

After experimenting with _Sous Vide _with an induction heater I finally bit the bullet and purchased the Anova unit.  The $169 price, with free shipping from Amazon was too good to pass up.   I am looking at playing with a combination of Sous Vide with classical grilling and smoking.  The previous work done with the induction heater was a good enough proof of concept to convince me good results could be produced.  Now I want more precise and granular control which can only be done with a real _Sous Vide_  unit.


----------



## smok

I am building one from an old PolyScience unit. They had a fascinating mercury thermostat built in but that is a sidebar discussion.  This is a Fisher but they are identical. Mine is a basket case at the moment.  













Polyscience.png



__ smok
__ Sep 11, 2014






The impeller motor was burnt out - turns out the impeller had a pseudo bearing that expanded in the hot bath and froze the shaft which in turn cooked the motor. All before my ownership.  I am taking it off an fabbing a new button bearing from Delrin.  

I have disassembled the unit and am fitting a new C-Frame motor. Its a little bigger so it will be like having an Evinrude in the bath.  The motor-to-impeller shaft had an interesting design, they just got them close and spanned the gap with .025 PEX tubing then pinned it. No need for perfect alignment and cheap.













Poly2.png



__ smok
__ Sep 11, 2014






I plan to chop off the impeller pump's circulating piping, maybe form it in the proper orientation of just clip it off and epoxy in a new elbow to jet out the front. 

I ordered a flatware cutlery holder for the basket. 

I am removing the entire works from the tank in the photo, whacking off the extra stainless and will mount it using two quick release bar clamps. I will have to reverse the clamp as built but that is one hole and one screw per clamp. 













Bar Clamp.png



__ smok
__ Sep 11, 2014






Then the PID, the scr, the paint, etc.


----------



## smokin monkey

Just read a post on here that they were cooking the Beef Brisket one day, then steaming  it the next day.

Would this work as good or even better, to cook it on day then sous vide the next day, that way you would be sure to get the smoke flavour and the tenderness and moistness of sous vide?  :33:

Smokin Monkey


----------



## shtrdave

Smokin Monkey said:


> Just read a post on here that they were cooking the Beef Brisket one day, then steaming it the next day.
> 
> Would this work as good or even better, to cook it on day then sous vide the next day, that way you would be sure to get the smoke flavour and the tenderness and moistness of sous vide?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smokin Monkey


I am not a SV expert, and have not done anything with my new cooker, only with my made up one. But I think for the brisket you would smoke for a short period of time to give it the smoke flavor and then SV to finish. From what I understand the SV cooking process enhances or increases the flavors you have added.

There are better authorities here than myself they will be along shortly to no doubt correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## smokednarwhal

Great thread. I love my sous vide steaks so much it has ruined me for other methods. I vacuum seal 2" thick ribeye or porterhouse and into the water bath for 2 hours at 126 degrees. Then remove the steak, pat dry then season to your own personal preference (I only use sea salt.)  Next I lay the meat directly on hot hardwood lump charcoal for 90 seconds per side. If you don't like the direct charcoal method a screaming hot cast iron pan is almost as good, but you have to rub it in oil or it will stick like mad.


----------



## shtrdave

I would be good with 126 but the GF likes her stuff done more say 145ish she doesn't mind a bit of pink anymore nut no red. Could one just cook her's for an extra minute or two to get the higher temp and doneness?


----------



## daveomak

shtrdave said:


> I would be good with 126 but the GF likes her stuff done more say 145ish she doesn't mind a bit of pink anymore nut no red. Could one just cook her's for an extra minute or two to get the higher temp and doneness?




You could blind fold her and do a taste test....   A "BLIND" taste test....    :biggrin:


----------



## shtrdave

She has come a long way, her dad cooks everything until it is black, hard, and dry. She now tells me she likes how when I cook the meat it is always tender. She has come to see that it doesn't need to look like a piece of charcoal to be good.


----------



## sqwib

DaveOmak said:


> You could blind fold her and do a taste test.... A "BLIND" taste test....


Would not work on my wife, its a texture thing with her, believe me I tried.


----------



## smok

SQWIB said:


> Would not work on my wife, its a texture thing with her, believe me I tried.


Has anyone done an A vs B test on flame finishing Sous Vide steak with propane vs butane? 

I am reading that propane tantes the taste but I use Propane as my main BTU source in the smoker and it tastes perfect after hours of propane generated BTUs.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

No objectionable propane taste if the flame is adjusted correctly.

Quoting Chris Young, one of the authors of Modernist Cuisine......

_"When people claim that certain fuels should be avoided, it's usually because they've had the experience of the food tasting like fuel. The problem is not the fuel, however, it's how the blowtorch is used. Never point the end of a blowtorch at the food before the flame is lit and burning blue—something referred to as an oxidizing flame. Unburned fuel squirts from the tip when the torch is first lit; a yellow flame is a telltale sign that the fuel is not being completely combusted. Good torches can always be adjusted to control how much fuel is being mixed with air to ensure complete combustion. Always adjust the flame before bringing the flame to the food."_

_Though I would mention that when blowtorching your meat, it's not so much that the torch needs to be hot, rather it needs to be burning with an oxidizing flame. This means that the ratio of air to fuel is balanced such that complete combustion occurs and the only by-products are water (steam), carbon dioxide, and a whole lot of heat energy. 

You can judge this by the fact that the flame is a tight, blue pencil-tip flame with absolutely no yellow in the flame._


I'm patiently waiting for a Searzall to, hopefully, take torching to the next level....



~Martin


----------



## jarjarchef

I have been off and on looking for the Searzall, have not found one.

I have used both butane and propane torches for searing/quick cooking. I would agree with the above statement about the flame and the picking up of fuel taste. But you will still get the taste of fuel with both. That is why the Searzall looks to be a good thing. It is basically a portable salamander.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

The initial Searzall run has been spoken for...it's said that it'll be available again in a few months through Amazon.





~Martin


----------



## diggingdogfarm

More on torch taste.....
http://modernistcuisine.com/2011/02/torch-tastes/













667px-Bunsen_burner_flame_types.jpg



__ diggingdogfarm
__ Sep 16, 2014






The quality of the torch also makes a BIG difference, a cheap basic ubiquitous torch head will often spit and sputter when tipped which negatively affects the burn.
Premium torches have a built in regulator to counter than problem.
The Bernzomatic TS8000 is one such torch.


~Martin


----------



## dcarch




----------



## diggingdogfarm

Yep, or even well tilted.



~Martin


----------



## smok

I have the Harbor Freight torch, the $17.00 one. 

Very nice torch.


----------



## milt2tle

Addertooth said:


> After experimenting with _Sous Vide_ with an induction heater I finally bit the bullet and purchased the Anova unit.  The $169 price, with free shipping from Amazon was too good to pass up.   I am looking at playing with a combination of Sous Vide with classical grilling and smoking.  The previous work done with the induction heater was a good enough proof of concept to convince me good results could be produced.  Now I want more precise and granular control which can only be done with a real _Sous Vide_ unit.



I have the same unit and am enjoying learning how to best use it and how to best "finish" the foods I first cook with it.  I would be most interested in learning what you have done combining sous vide with grilling and smoking, if you're willing to share and teach.

Thanks!


----------



## milt2tle

SQWIB said:


> As promised.
> 
> (Snip)



That was a truly informative, helpful post.  Thank you for the time you put into both the research and posting the results of that study.

I am especially interested in what - if any - further experimentation you may have done in the area of taking food (at this point, specifically chicken breasts, but anything would help) that has been cooked sous vide and then "finishing" on a grill.  I would appreciate any successes, ideas, thoughts, and suggestions you might be willing to share.

Thank you, again, for the information you've already shared any anything further you might pass along.

Milt


----------



## sqwib

milt2tle said:


> That was a truly informative, helpful post. Thank you for the time you put into both the research and posting the results of that study.
> 
> I am especially interested in what - if any - further experimentation you may have done in the area of taking food (at this point, specifically chicken breasts, but anything would help) that has been cooked sous vide and then "finishing" on a grill. I would appreciate any successes, ideas, thoughts, and suggestions you might be willing to share.
> 
> Thank you, again, for the information you've already shared any anything further you might pass along.
> 
> Milt


No problem, I'm going to try another batch but with lower temps and dried herbs not fresh.

I'm gonna omit the salt as Gerk and Martin suggest and see what happens.

I may try some vermouth in one.

If anyone has opinions on white wine or vermouth in sous vide let me know before I ruin a good piece of chicken.


----------



## addertooth

My only caution, alcohol boils at 170 degrees F (at sea level).  Although it is unlikely you will reach this temperature in a Sous Vide cook, by pulling a partial vacuum in the bag, you are in essence reducing the pressure in the bag (equivalent of raising the altitude of the cook). This will lower the boiling point of the alcohol.  Any bubbles which form, will affect the even conduction of heat.  Pre-simmering your alcohol in a pot at 180 will eliminate this risk.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Yes that is a problem, even below the boiling point you can get some alcohol vapor which can lead to puffing of the bag, floating and/or uneven cooking.


~Martin


----------



## dcarch

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Yep, or even well tilted.
> 
> 
> 
> ~Martin





Addertooth said:


> My only caution, alcohol boils at 170 degrees F (at sea level).  Although it is unlikely you will reach this temperature in a Sous Vide cook, by pulling a partial vacuum in the bag, you are in essence reducing the pressure in the bag (equivalent of raising the altitude of the cook). This will lower the boiling point of the alcohol.  Any bubbles which form, will affect the even conduction of heat.  Pre-simmering your alcohol in a pot at 180 will eliminate this risk.


There is generally never a vacuum in a sous vide bag. I know "sous vide" translates to "under vacuum" and you use a vacuum machine to seal the bag. 

If you manage to test the pressure inside the bag, you will find it to equal to normal atmospheric pressure. The bag inside may be airless, but it is not pressurized.

To create a vacuum, you need a container with rigid body such as a glass jar.

You may have some vacuum created if you sous vide a whole chicken with a rigid empty rib cage.

dcarch


----------



## sqwib

So do you guys think I should simmer ( bring up to 180) before adding it or just forget it altogether?


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Cooking off the alcohol changes the flavor a bit, of course, but there's no other major  issue in doing it....lots of folks do it.



~Martin


----------



## addertooth

Milt2tle,

There is a good sous vide tutorial where he is post grilling the chicken breast at:

http://solidgoldeats.com/sous-vide-bbq-boneless-skinless-chicken-breasts/

Give it a read, good info.

Dcarch,

Although it is true the atmosphere outside the bag presses upon the thin plastic, prior to the bag sealing the vacuum pump draws a 5 inch column of water.  This translates to a pressure differential between the inside of the bag, and the outside.  There is not a Hard vacuum in the bag, but there is a slight vacuum in the bag.


----------



## milt2tle

Addertooth said:


> Milt2tle,
> There is a good sous vide tutorial where he is post grilling the chicken breast at:
> http://solidgoldeats.com/sous-vide-bbq-boneless-skinless-chicken-breasts/
> Give it a read, good info..



Good info indeed ... Thank you for the lead!

M.


----------



## dcarch

Addertooth said:


> Dcarch,
> 
> Although it is true the atmosphere outside the bag presses upon the thin plastic, prior to the bag sealing the vacuum pump draws a 5 inch column of water.  This translates to a pressure differential between the inside of the bag, and the outside.  There is not a Hard vacuum in the bag, but there is a slight vacuum in the bag.


I am not sure you are correct. For example:

If you have a jar with a rigid cap that is 100% filled with water and you are pumping out the water from the bottom of the jar. The water will be removed and the empty space in the jar will be created at high vacuum, minus the vapor pressure at that temperature of water's vapor pressure. (water will start boiling at this point)

However, if instead of a rigid cap, the jar is capped with a freely moving piston. You can keep pumping water out and the freely moving cap will keep prevent any pressure buildup, regardless how powerful the vacuum pump is.

To create pressure (atmospheric) from vacuum, the container has to be rigid for the vacuum to happen and for the pressure to act against. 

dcarch

.


----------



## addertooth

The next time you make a stew or a soup, when it has cooled just enough to stop boiling, pour it into in a vacuum bag.  Start the vacuum process on your sealer, it will start boiling again.  This is because the external pressure no longer exceeds the internal vapor pressure of the heated liquid.  I have actually done this, perhaps my vacuum just pulls harder.  (My equipment sucks more)


----------



## diggingdogfarm

A suction vacuum sealer may seal a tiny amount of vacuum but when using a chamber vacuum sealer, the contents are sealed at atmospheric pressure...there is no vacuum....

In regards to boiling, it's very easy to do with a chamber vacuum sealer, even if the liquid is at room temperature.
If fact, stuff is often cooled as much as possible to avoid problems with boiling.

Heck, a ~$20 faucet aspirator will pull enough vacuum to easily boil room (or lower) temperature water.

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]


~Martin


----------



## dcarch

DiggingDogFarm said:


> A suction vacuum sealer may seal a tiny amount of vacuum but when using a chamber vacuum sealer, the contents are sealed at atmospheric pressure...there is no vacuum....
> 
> In regards to boiling, it's very easy to do with a chamber vacuum sealer, even if the liquid is at room temperature.
> If fact, stuff is often cooled as much as possible to avoid problems with boiling.
> 
> Heck, a ~$20 faucet aspirator will pull enough vacuum to easily boil room (or lower) temperature water.
> 
> 
> ~Martin


And while the water is boiling it will start to freeze.

dcarch


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Some folks may find this useful....

*5 Common Misconceptions About Sous Vide Cooking*
http://blog.chefsteps.com/2014/09/5-common-misconceptions-about-sous-vide-cooking/


~Martin


----------



## milt2tle

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Some folks may find this useful....
> 
> *5 Common Misconceptions About Sous Vide Cooking*
> http://blog.chefsteps.com/2014/09/5-common-misconceptions-about-sous-vide-cooking/
> 
> 
> ~Martin


Good link, Martin ... it was certainly useful to me ... thanks for posting!


----------



## daveomak

Thumbs Up ...  Thanks Martin...


----------



## paprika pal

I just purchased all the parts for the Heatermeter. (Open source DIY Pit minder of sorts) The guy that put the DIY project together states you can use it as a temperature controller for sous vide. I myself have never done sous vide besides putting my frozen pulled pork sealed bag in boiling water to heat it up. Just an FYI.  Love the posts keep them going.


----------



## sqwib

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Some folks may find this useful....
> 
> *5 Common Misconceptions About Sous Vide Cooking*
> http://blog.chefsteps.com/2014/09/5-common-misconceptions-about-sous-vide-cooking/
> 
> 
> ~Martin


Awesome link, thanks for sharing.


----------



## shtrdave

yes thanks for the link, it may actually move me to get mine out the the box and try to use it.

How does it work with bone in stuff, like a steak?


----------



## daveomak

GOOD MORNING !!!!!!!    I am the uninitiated, in Sous vide Cooking...   My machine just arrived....

I've been practicing for 2 days....   I'm trying to learn on "Poached Eggs"....   I'm beginning to think that is a steep learning curve.....    I've looked at several recipes and I'm trying a few of them....    I'm beginning to think, sous vide, when cooked in an immersion circulator gives different results from a non circulating bath....   "No Kidding ???"  I've had eggs with runny whites and rock hard yolks....  Then today, rock hard, rubbery whites with slightly overcooked yolks....    So, I cooked one more egg while I had an uneducated guess fresh in my pea brain....    whites a little too tough and yolk a little over cooked.....   

So, the experimenting will continue...  I sure have been eating a lot of eggs....

My Sous Vide set up...   The ANOVA is pretty cool....  easy to understand and use....   will work on almost any container...  I started in a 3 gallon SS pot...  the temp was slow to rise, I guess, and steam poured out the top....   Thinking, "That's no good"....  I'd lose too much water over time...  So I found my old "lunch bucket" cooler....  works pretty darn good...  make shift condensation top to recycle the steam, reduce heat loss....   VOILA....  













DSCF1768.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Oct 10, 2014


















DSCF1769.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Oct 10, 2014







My closest attempt at a perfect egg is on the right...  I cooked it at 180 deg. F for 12 minutes...  Now that egg was cold... from the fridge...  and laid last week by my chickens....   I think I read somewhere, fresh eggs don't peel well.....  They are right....   I even cracked it, when done, and ran cold water over it trying to get water between the membrane and the shell to facilitate easy peeling...   No luck there..   I'm thinking my next attempt will be at the 180 Deg. F temp for 10 minutes...  













DSCF1770.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Oct 10, 2014


















DSCF1776.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Oct 10, 2014







See you all later.....


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Eggs are touchy, a small change in temperature can make a BIG difference.

Check out ChefStep's calculator

http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/the-egg-calculator

Makes tweaking to your liking very easy.



~Martin


----------



## daveomak

That is one of the calculators I used....    I wonder what egg sizes they use....   I will have to measure the circumference of the eggs and check....  



Size

Mass per egg

Cooking Yield (Volume)[2]


Jumbo
Greater than 2.5 oz. or 71 g  

Very Large or Extra-Large (XL)
Greater than 2.25 oz. or 64 g 56 mL (4 tbsp) 

Large (L)
Greater than 2 oz. or 57 g 46 mL (3.25 tbsp) 

Medium (M)
Greater than 1.75 oz. or 50 g 43 mL (3 tbsp) 

Small (S)
Greater than 1.5 oz. or 43 g  

Peewee
Greater than 1.25 oz. or 35 g


----------



## daveomak

Switched from eggs to Ox/Beef Cheeks...  in the water oven now....  Doing a short cook method...   75 C for 20 hours...  the 60 C for 60 hours was not a good choice today.....  that may be next.....     added some Montreal, dried onion flakes and pepper flakes.....  Never had cheeks and curious about the texture and flavor.... cheeks bacon is on my list one of these days...  See you tomorrow....

It's tomorrow....    Not much to see....  cheeks are in the vac-bags....   When the time was up, I threw them on the freezing plate in my beer fridge, after they saw cold running water for about 10 minutes.....   Bride and I will do a cheeks and wide egg noodles tonight...  there is the start of a great looking sauce in the bags...   I'm getting hungry thinking about it... 













Beef Cheeks.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Oct 11, 2014


----------



## daveomak

Bride did her thing.... Peppers, onions.... etc...   She says "They are awesome"....  great flavor and texture...   That's all that matters..... 













Beef Cheek and noodles.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Oct 11, 2014


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Great!!!!! :smile:



~Martin


----------



## sqwib

Fantastic plate looks amazing.


----------



## daveomak

I think this S.V. process will be used around here, regularly..  

If the members on this forum keep finding new cooking/smoking techniques, the pantry storage will need an addition....   

Considering I started this forum with a Totem Smoker, home made smoker and a Kitchen Aid mixer/ grinder/stuffer.......   and you look around at the stuff I have now....  I know I am lucky to have found this place....  That's where the extra LB's came from....  darn near broke the doctor's scale last visit....   

Great food is my passion...  I love to eat stuff that is better than the restaurant down the street... Bride and I are accomplishing that on a routine basis...  The Sous Vide machine takes food to a whole new level....  How cool is that....

Thanks folks for the introduction....


----------



## addertooth

I must compliment the people who run this forum. So many forums are intolerant of "non-related" topics.  Many smokers are closet (or not so closet) foodies.  They dabble with all things cooking, which may include: Smoking, BBQ, Grilling, Drying, Baking, Canning, Brewing, Winemaking, Sous Vide,.. ..  While there are many websites focused on each of these endeavors, it is great to have a site which embraces such a broad spectrum all in one location.  I had to modify my diet a few months ago, and it is great to see the mixture of techniques found here.  I love the overall 'foodie" environment which is fostered here, and with the tips learned here, hope to make interesting and flavorful food for years to come. Kudos to the forum members who bring forward these great contributing posts.


----------



## smok

I finished my Sous Vide franken-heater. Works great. 

I tried some chicken breasts, no salt, light salt, squeeze of lemon and heavy pepper. Brine for 60 minutes, pad dry and  1.75 hours @ 140. All turned out very moist, but the pepper was a bit of a disappointment. 

The Lemon Chicken was difficult to vacuum seal but it did eventually seal and the finished taste was as expected with the added benefit of the succulent meat. The light salt was also perfect; the addition of post-cooking salt was needed on the no-salt beasts. 

I do love pepper and will pepper heavily when smoking. The sous vide "pepper effect" was amped way up, and not the good aspects. Thankfully the effect was dialed way back after setting in the fridge for a day or so. 

I have a few beef pieces in the bath now, approaching 48 hours. 

After this I will pre-smoke the meet and then sous vide.


----------



## daveomak

Smok said:


> I finished my Sous Vide franken-heater. Works great.
> 
> I tried some chicken breasts, no salt, light salt, squeeze of lemon and heavy pepper. Brine for 60 minutes, pad dry and  1.75 hours @ 140. All turned out very moist, but the pepper was a bit of a disappointment.
> 
> The Lemon Chicken was difficult to vacuum seal but it did eventually seal and the finished taste was as expected with the added benefit of the succulent meat. The light salt was also perfect; the addition of post-cooking salt was needed on the no-salt beasts.
> 
> I do love pepper and will pepper heavily when smoking. The sous vide "pepper effect" was amped way up, and not the good aspects. Thankfully the effect was dialed way back after setting in the fridge for a day or so.
> 
> I have a few beef pieces in the bath now, approaching 48 hours.
> 
> After this I will pre-smoke the meet and then sous vide.




Smok, morning....  Did you have a "Sous Vide" recipe that recommended that time and temperature....


----------



## addertooth

I normally do a breast one hour at 140, followed by a sear on a grill.  They turn out excellent.  An hour and 45 minutes seems a bit long, but will likely do no harm.


----------



## smok

DaveOmak said:


> Smok, morning.... Did you have a "Sous Vide" recipe that recommended that time and temperature....


As a total newbie to sous vide I just ran with the data on this site:

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Poultry_and_Eggs

as the breasts were very thick.  I was expecting a trainwreck on the maiden voyage but it turned out well in spite of my lack of sous vide chops. The chicken is very nice. Amazingly nice. 

As another tiptoe experiment we ran several small 2.lb cuts of beef (chuck, tritip, and brisket @ 131 degrees at 48 hours) and had the brisket today for lunch. I now realize I like brisket a little more done however it was melt in your mouth tender and moist.  I just made gravy with the bag juices for a test, but the meat was in no need of gravy. We will save the gravy for something else.  On a side note the beef was green and required the blow torch. What was fascinating was the muscle reaction to the intense heat of the flame. If you or your guests are at all squeamish, avoid the Maillard step. 

The next experiment: I want to get some brisket (if I can find a reasonable price) smoke it for several hours and then put it in the sous vide for the long cook.


----------



## daveomak

I'm thinking of getting a brisket also.....  Slice it up, season it, vac bag it....   In the freezer for later sous vide....  I might add about 1 hours smoke to some to see how that works....   I know when canning salmon, 1 hours smoke tastes like 6 hours....  don't know why the smoke intensifies when canning but....  I'm thinking it might do the same in a sous vide pouch.....


----------



## smok

DaveOmak said:


> I'm thinking of getting a brisket also..... Slice it up, season it, vac bag it.... In the freezer for later sous vide.... I might add about 1 hours smoke to some to see how that works.... I know when canning salmon, 1 hours smoke tastes like 6 hours.... don't know why the smoke intensifies when canning but.... I'm thinking it might do the same in a sous vide pouch.....


I think a side benefit is more surface area to take up the smoke. Once you cut a packer in seal-a-meal size portions there is more brisket that will come in contact with the smoke.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

For safety's sake, poultry should always be sous vide to the point of pasteurization because salmonella and the like pose a great risk.
Times vary with the thickness of the meat. 
Measure thickness carefully and check the accuracy of your sous vide temperature controller with a reference thermometer.













poultry pastuerization.PNG



__ diggingdogfarm
__ Oct 12, 2014






Source: http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html


~Martin


----------



## smokin monkey

Hi all, regarding cooking times etc, this is a useful app that I use,













image.jpg



__ smokin monkey
__ Oct 13, 2014





Its called SousVide Dash, it can be downloaded from the App Store, not sure if their is an Android version.

Chose what meat it is, choses thickness or circumference, Cook and Pasturize to Centre, Cook to Temperature or Cook and Paturize Surface.

Chose cooking temperature, it will guide you, if you want Rare, Medium Rear etc.

It tells you the cooking time, and a step by step visual on when E.Coli, Salmonella and Listeria are killed.

Smokin Monkey :38:


----------



## sqwib

DaveOmak said:


> I'm thinking of getting a brisket also..... Slice it up, season it, vac bag it.... In the freezer for later sous vide.... I might add about 1 hours smoke to some to see how that works.... I know when canning salmon, 1 hours smoke tastes like 6 hours.... don't know why the smoke intensifies when canning but.... I'm thinking it might do the same in a sous vide pouch.....


Dave heres a post from my web site on that subject, although I have only done this once, YMMV

Cold smoked for an hour, seared, placed in freezer to firm up then sealed and into the bath.
 
Heres a post from my website on a London Broill and Chuck

_Flavor profile of the Chuck
The chucks had a fairly decent flavor profile, not as good as the LB's but OK.
The smoked Chuck flavor was a bit more odd, not bad but did not taste like it had a smoky flavor, it was definitely a different flavor than the non smoked chuck, which I preferred, but you could not tell that it was smoked, but rather different. The Teriyaki flavor never came through, I found this odd._

_Texture
the Chuck was tender to the point of bordering mushy when served immediately, I am not a big fan of chuck but this chuck is far superior than any chuck I have done by other methods._

_The chuck was incredible cold sliced the next day, the meat firmed up and my oldest daughter loved it cold.
I have heard folks refer to Sous Vide Chuck as very similar to Prime Rib , I don't care what you do to this piece of meat, Its never going to be a prime rib equivalent in taste or texture._

_However the meat was fork tender and the flavor profile was great for a chuck. This may have even pulled fairly easy, you can notice the grain in the meat in several pictures screaming to be pulled. I will definitely be doing a pulled chuck in the near future, now whether or not I smoke it, still remains to be seen._

_     How was the London Broil?_

_Flavor Profile
The flavor was awesome and the smoke flavor came through nicely on the smoked LB and the smoked is the one I preferred.
The Teriyaki flavor never came through on the Smoke LB either, I understand that when using a bath, some ingredients can have a negative impact on the flavor profile, but still thought it odd that there was no flavor from the Teriyaki._

_Texture
The LB was just plain awesome, far superior than any LB's I have done in the past.  What I would do in the past is I would jaccard the meat for a so called tender meat but sometimes I would over do it, and although it was "CHEW-Friendly", it lost its body and was borderline burger meat.
Cooking in the bath, the meat retains its body somewhat but is an easier chew, I don't want to say more tender because it's still dense, but its different, and has a much more pleasant texture, Its hard to describe._

_Overall I preferred this cut over the Chuck._

I have done  Brisket (Corned Beef) that was the best Corned beef I have ever tried, and I honestly mean that.

*





*


 

*




*


 

*




*


 

*




*













I done a pastrami (smoked on frank)

The Pastrami was OK, however, I would never smoke my corned beef again, the sous vide corned beef was far superior in every way.






 


Very tender


----------



## sqwib

Cold Smoking after it has come out of the bath may impart a better flavor... maybe someone that has tried both ways can verify this as I have only smoked prior, not post.


----------



## smok

That slicer is impressive. I dont get that consistent of a cut. Is it commercial?


----------



## sqwib

Yes, its an oldie but a goodie.













8090314722_480244bdcf_k.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Oct 15, 2014


----------



## smok

I purchased the highly recommended "Chef's Choice 615" and it has been disappointing. I suspect it would be appropriate for a 1 lbs chunk of bologna but the output from a day of smoking is a chore x 10.


----------



## ty2185

Bump this thread for a cool machine I just cam across. http://cookmellow.com/meet-mellow/

It can do many of the things I felt were short comings with current machines.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

TY2185 said:


> Bump this thread for a cool machine I just cam across. http://cookmellow.com/meet-mellow/
> It can do many of the things I felt were short comings with current machines.



Yeah, there has been a lot of discussion about it here.... http://forums.egullet.org/topic/147598-mellow-the-smart-sous-vide-robot/









=Martin=


----------



## smok

TY2185 said:


> Bump this thread for a cool machine I just cam across. http://cookmellow.com/meet-mellow/
> 
> It can do many of the things I felt were short comings with current machines.


Not commenting on this machine, but in general. Maintenance and cleanup are the keys to a cool machine becoming one you will use. If either of those two are a pain, you will not use the machine. My wife would add "and some place to store it".


----------



## bmaddox

Smok said:


> My wife would add "and some place to store it".


I have the same problem. I keep an extra crock pot around to use with my home made sous vide controller so it takes up a lot of room (but in my opinion it is worth the space)


----------



## gerk

It's really interesting to me to have a sous vide machine that can hold things at fridge temperatures and then heat up and cook at a pre determined time.  That said I'm not sure that this unit would be the one for me ... it seems a bit gimmicky.  I love my immersion circulator in terms of how well it cooks things and how accurate it is -- which can be really important when cooking certain types of stuff!


----------



## smok




----------



## gerk

It's in a similar price point to other "water oven" type machines, like the Sous Vide Supreme (which I think is also over-priced).  I owned one and was pretty disappointed with it, especially the value for what you got.  It wasn't really much more than a pretty box with a PID controller in it to be honest.  It felt pretty cheap and the temperature fluctuations were pretty terrible (like a 1-2 degree difference in the top of the water to the bottom of the water).

At least for $500 this gives you some abilities that nothing else on the market does yet.  That said I'm still not buying one ;)


----------



## smok

Gerk said:


> It's in a similar price point to other "water oven" type machines, like the Sous Vide Supreme (which I think is also over-priced).  I owned one and was pretty disappointed with it, especially the value for what you got.  It wasn't really much more than a pretty box with a PID controller in it to be honest.  It felt pretty cheap and the temperature fluctuations were pretty terrible (like a 1-2 degree difference in the top of the water to the bottom of the water).
> 
> At least for $500 this gives you some abilities that nothing else on the market does yet.  That said I'm still not buying one ;)


You make a valid point. My abstraction was as a barrier to entering Sous Vide, the primary step. 

I built my first unit for 15% of that and while it doesn't chill my wine or chat up my iPhone, the PID does everything I require perfectly.

I scored an eBay lab circulator with an insulated stainless steel tank for about 20%, so I have 65% left for stuff to put in the Sous Vide before I spend $500. To me that is value. I like toys - it is easy for me to get enamored with the process and miss the fact I started this to enjoy the product.


----------



## addertooth

Time, it is always a challenge on weekday cooks.  By the time I get home, everyone is already hungry; they aren't in the mood to wait a couple of hours for a meal.  Certainly burgers and dogs can be whipped up quickly, but for anything more imaginative, a bit more preparation is required.  This dish has the advantage of being prepped in advance, and can be stored for weeks before final sear and serving. 

 It involves vacuum sealing bags with the uncooked meatloaf inside.  Then the bags are put into a circulating bath of water at 160 degrees for an hour.  At this point, the meat has reached an internal temperature of 160, and is well-done.  The inside of the package is pasteurized by the heat, and is safe for extended storage in the refrigerator.  When the family wants a meal with near zero prep time, start your Kamado up for searing.  Open a few packages, and throw them on the Kamado Joe for a quick sear.  Because the meat is already fully cooked, you are just shooting for the color and amount of sear you want the Meatloaf burgers to have.  A note on the pictures, I also made classical meatloaf on the Big Joe, the Joe Junior was used for searing the patty (pictured).

The recipe for the meatloaf can be found in my "meatloaf again" posting a few weeks back. 













1 Sous Vide Meatloaf.jpg



__ addertooth
__ Jan 18, 2015


















2 sous vide meatloaf.jpg



__ addertooth
__ Jan 18, 2015


















3 sous vide meatloaf burgers cooking.jpg



__ addertooth
__ Jan 18, 2015


















4 classical meatloaf an potatoes on the Joe.jpg



__ addertooth
__ Jan 18, 2015


















5 sous vide meatloaf burger browned.jpg



__ addertooth
__ Jan 18, 2015


















6 meatolaf and potatoes done.jpg



__ addertooth
__ Jan 18, 2015


----------



## sqwib

That looks Awesome, I gotta try this.


----------



## sqwib

*January 17th - 18th 2015*

*Chicken Thighs and Chicken Breasts Sous Vide*

Friday I was off to the store to pick up some Sick supplies, I had to call out of work, my oldest daughter, Son and Wife have the Flu, Sam and Myself are still OK so far.

I figured that we would all be shut in this weekend so to avoid going stir crazy I decided to pick up some meat for some serious weekend cooking, after looking at the price of a pork loin @ $3.98 a pound I said No way and hit the chicken section. I had two chickens in the refrigerator already to spatchcock and grill.
After "oogling" at the Thighs and Breasts lol. I figured I would do some Sous Vide cooking. After making the decision that I would Sous Vide all weekend, I also picked up a few chuck Roasts to make some Bee Stroganoff.
 

I set up my Sous Vide station then hit a snag, apparently the Immersion Circulator had ceased up so out come the tools, problem fixed but its a bit noisier than before, I'm going to have to look into replacing the motor bearings.




 





I got the bath up to about 140° or so then fired up the immersion circulator, it will take a couple hours sometimes to settle down and will hold 2/10 of a degree, but adding hot water or ice just takes longer, it works much better to give it a two hour prime, especially if holding a degree is important. By adding Ice and hot water the PID controller gets confused.

 
First up I prepped the boneless thighs, no trimming or rinsing.




 
Sage, Basil, Parsley and Sundried tomatoes




 






Plain





 

Philly Style Rub





Franks Red hot and Blue Cheese Dressing




 






Chubb






Next up Bone in thighs with skin, I was trying a recipe Laura's Mom used to make, After I made it I found out she wasn't too big on this recipe, I always thought it was one of her favorites oh well. Thighs were not rinsed or trimmed, If I do these thighs again I would trim the excess fat along the sides to allow for complete browning of the skin.
 




 

I took three and spiced with some Basil, Parsley and a pinch of sage.





Everything is Vac Sealed and ready for the bath, the bath is set to 147°F and the boneless thighs will cook three hours, the bone in thighs will cook 4 hours.
The two spatchcocked birds on the right are for the grill.






The necks and trimmings from the spatchcocked birds are browned for a gravy that will be used on the bone in thighs recipe.





 


The pan is deglazed with a bit of sweet vermouth then tossed in a pot with a few cups of water then placed on the back burner on low covered.





 


After three hours at 148°F the boneless thighs are removed from the hot bath and placed in an ice bath for thirty minutes.






All but one of the boneless thigh pouches are placed in the freezer to be used at a later date. The sundried Tomato thighs are up for sampling.






 


A little air drying then the Thighs are browned in Garlic Olive oil.




 







I was hoping to keep all three thighs intact for presentation but they were sticking to the pan a bit. I 'll have to pick up some transglutaminase!






 

How was it? The flavor was good but the texture was tooooo ...dare I say it?... yes I will!! it was too gummy, OMG I HATE THAT WORD! There was definitely too much moisture in the meat for my liking, the mouthfeel was a bit of a turnoff.
I think the thighs will be better done at 155°F - 160°F next time.
I did end up making a dish that was excellent with these thighs, I cut the thigh meat into medallions, pan fried and served... much, much better.
 





The rest of the Sundried Tomato chicken thighs were cut into medallions, browned then vacuum sealed with some Pineapple Habanero sauce and tossed into the freezer for a single meal when I'm eating solo.
 


The bone in thighs are removed after 4 hours, I decided to keep these in the bath an hour longer than the boneless but should have bumped the temp up to at least 155°F.






 

Rendered liquid from vac bags are poured into the gravy pot, necks are removed and the gravy is strained with a fine mesh strainer and placed back on the burner.
 


Thighs are browned on both sides with a Mushroom Olive oil and placed in a pan.






 


A blonde rue is made from the drippings in the pan and poured into the gravy pot, the gravy is tweaked then added to the thighs. 




 





 


This was pretty good but was actually better the next day reheated in a pan. The texture was much better the next day, the only benefit, for our family, from doing these at 148° is that when they are reheated you don't over cook them too much. Half of the batch was used for dinner and the other half into the freezer in two batches for another day. This should be served on a bed of rice but I didn't feel like making any!





 

Next up Chicken Breasts for chicken salad and the freezer. Breasts were $1.89 a pound


I did one Breast with Italian Dressing to sample. These were done two hours at 155°. After the thighs I figured this would be a safe temp for the breast.





 


This was extraordinary the wife even like it but she said still a wee bit wet for her, it was absolutely perfect for me and the Italian Dressing flavor was slightly noticeable, I was very happy with this.





 
Two of the breast are placed in an ice bath for thirty minutes and then into the freezer.

Since this was for chicken salad, I did not go crazy on spices, I figured it could be spiced later.
 
Two breasts are prepped for Chicken Salad, first I smashed them with my hand.





 


Then the breasts are shredded with a fork and nasty bits are removed. Garlic Powder, Onion Powder and salt is added.




 


Chicken is then chopped with a knife.





 

Shredded, Chopped Chicken is transferred to a bowl and Mayo is added, after mixing and sitting a bit in the refrigerator more mayo will be added. If this was just for me, there would be celery, sundried tomatoes, Minced Onions a pinch of mustard powder, black pepper and crushed red pepper, maybe even sweet relish!





 

I learned a very valuable lesson this weekend or should I say, it final sunk into my thick skull. The most important thing I learned (accepted) is that my family prefers chicken with a greater loss in moisture during the cook. A higher moisture content is usually followed with a statement like, "it's too gummy" and as much as I hate that word, they were dead on with the thighs.

I really wanted this to have awesome results, it has proven to be fruitless for chicken compared to grilling, pan frying, or pit cooking for basic chicken dinner, with the exception of the breast meat. Sous Vide cooking can push the extremes as far as reducing moisture loss, sadly it's not a benefit for my family. However I was floored by the quality, mouthfeel and flavor of the Breast meat. Also on another positive note, it does work well when cooking, freezing and reheating.

I will be trying this again soon but at higher temps, thighs 160°F-165°F and breasts 155°F-160°F, but there comes a time when I have to ask myself, "is it worth all the prep when I can simply toss on the grill"?


----------



## daveomak

Well......  I guess you wife won't be getting sick any more if she has to eat that [email protected] you are dishing up....  I'll get sick and drive right over....


----------



## bmaddox

Have you thought about reverse searing the thighs? A short cook in a hot skillet might get enough moisture out prior to vac sealing to help keep them from getting gummy. Then they could go for a long soak at 145ish in the sous vide to break down all the fat, then back into the skillet to finish cooking to 160. I have sous vide breasts before that I planned on breading. I got them "done" then breaded them and finished them in the pan. They were falling apart they were so tender.


----------



## bmaddox

Quick question for all off the DIY Sous Vide builders. My current set up is a crock pot with a temp controller ( ). It works well for my purposes but I am limited by the size of the crock pot (I have been wanting to start a roast on the smoker and finish it sous vide but the crock pot size would make it difficult). I have the controller wired to an outlet to power the crock pot. Is there a good immersion heater that I can get to plug into the controller that would enable me to use other containers? Should I just step up and get an immersion circulator that is self contained? I really don't want to spend the $200 on a new unit if I can build off what I already have.


----------



## diggingdogfarm

Get an immersion circulator.


----------



## sqwib

bmaddox said:


> Have you thought about reverse searing the thighs? A short cook in a hot skillet might get enough moisture out prior to vac sealing to help keep them from getting gummy. Then they could go for a long soak at 145ish in the sous vide to break down all the fat, then back into the skillet to finish cooking to 160. I have sous vide breasts before that I planned on breading. I got them "done" then breaded them and finished them in the pan. They were falling apart they were so tender.


I will definitely try a Pre Sear/Post Sear next time but still think I'll bump the temps to 155° minimum.

I like to presear beef, I have two chucks preseared in the bath right now for 24 hours so far, going another 24.

Thanks


----------



## gary s

Pretty neat, I learning 

Gary


----------



## sqwib

Just wanted to post a follow up on the chicken breasts, I sliced them on the slicer after a few days rest in the refrigerator and the meat was incredible, it got the approval from my wife Wow! I will definitely be doing breasts for lunch meat and may even try temps a bit lower 145° - 150°, I may also try some transglutaminase.


----------



## gary s

SQWIB, you have a lot of nice equipment, chicken looks great

Gary


----------



## bmaddox

SQWIB said:


> Just wanted to post a follow up on the chicken breasts, I sliced them on the slicer after a few days rest in the refrigerator and the meat was incredible, it got the approval from my wife Wow! I will definitely be doing breasts for lunch meat and may even try temps a bit lower 145° - 150°, I may also try some transglutaminase.


I think I need to finally invest in a slicer so I can try this.


----------



## sqwib

I threw together a video of a Sous Vide Cook, it's actually two cooks pieced together.

I whole heartedly apologize for it being 6 minutes, I had over an hour of footage and found it near impossible to get it under 4 minutes (my goal).

Anyhow it shows some of the steps I use when Sous Vide cooking.

Just an FYI, I have been experimenting on Beef chuck's a lot lately and to be quite honest I can not like this piece of meat, to me, it always has a greasy taste and the only way I like it is cooked to death in a crock pot. And for the price... it's a total waste of hard earned money! however it is great in a stew.
I have heard so many folks comparing it to prime Rib, well I'm calling BS... If you want prime rib, BUY PRIME RIB!

I done two cooks 134° for 56 hours and 137° for 48 hours, most of the pics are from the 137° cook. the 137° chuck was passable, the 134° chuck is ear marked for some Kick Ass Stew. Seems the lower temp I go, the greasier it tastes. None of the meat was mushy and had a good texture, especially the 137°.

I have tried pre sear, no sear, spices, no spices, different temps, different cook times, heavy post sear, light post sear, the only part I have thoroughly enjoyed has been the crust from the sear. I don't even like this meat on the Pit!! Beef Chuck is a great ingredient not a steak... there I said it, now I feel better.


----------



## luv2putt

Sqwib, great video !!!  Gonna have to disagree with you on the chuck though ... I'm currently doing my 4th chucky and have had great success with all of them ...I do mine at 135 for 48 hrs and none which I would get anywhere near callin greasy ... I guess the only difference in mine is that I don't cut them up ...just cook them whole ... Cut and trim after searing ...last one I did I cut up after and used in a stroganoff which came out great... Thinking about doing this one similar to beef bourguignon ....  I do like the way beef tastes after a long slow braise , but prefer the tender chew of the sous vide ... Also doing a brisket this week for Stuper bowl ... First one I tried smoking after and it came out great ... I'm thinking of doing this one on the  smoker first till temps hit neat 130 , then gonna pull , bag it and soak for 72 hrs... Let's all keep sharing this sous vide info !!!


----------



## sqwib

Thanks, I was hoping someone would see the video and give me a heads up if there was anything grossly wrong with my method.

Keep us posted on the Brisket

Disagree that they don't taste like Prime Rib?

Or disagree on the Greasy Part?

I have had pretty good luck with Cold Smoking for a few hours Prior to Sous Vide. The LB took on a better smoke profile than the chuck...IIRC.













13445247195_05043364a0_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Jan 27, 2015






Cooked them whole too. (LB on the Left Chuck on the right) LB was really good













13536438003_f392a55613_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Jan 27, 2015






The greasy tasting part is not throughout, it's usually more to one side. On the above pic, the whole left side of the chuck (browned) is OK, but the right side of that fat line is greasy tasting somewhat, so  I loose about a 3rd or a half of the chuckie to stew, which is fine but I have better expectations.

This part of the Chuck was not greasy and texture was phenomenal, flavor was OK













13536310045_281dfecc4f_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Jan 27, 2015






My latest cook this piece was not greasy tasting either and had a great texture, flavor was OK













16160165798_3f9c29c9d4_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Jan 27, 2015






The thin sliced chuck in the video was good also, I can almost tell what the taste and texture will be like just how it looks and feels when slicing.

I just can't justify paying near $6.00  for a pound of beef that you trim/loose 15- 20 percent off and half of that is used for stew or the like, by that logic I can get a much better cut of meat for a little bit more.

For now on my SV chucks are gonna be for stroganoff, stew and the like. I can get porterhouse steaks for $6.50 - $7.20. LB's even come out much better as far as flavor goes.

I am even careful on slicing in the correct direction.

I done a beef round thin sliced that was rather good, with a nice beef flavor, one odd thing was there was one corner on a few steaks (after a fat line) that were border line mushy, sort of like an overworked burger if you know what I mean it wasn't mushy but mushed up in your mouth, terrible mouthfeel, all in all it was good.













15759959063_d2f8049abe_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Jan 27, 2015


















16378271921_b8d2086987_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Jan 27, 2015






everyone liked these













16193731179_e58f092f43_c.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Jan 27, 2015






I took over a plate of TWO SV Chucks for dinner at my moms on Sunday, (15 people) and everyone tasted it and passed for another piece, my Sister in law thought it was phenomenal...go figure.

If I can't cut a piece of meat and eat it without gravy or spices, I refuse to call it steak. A good steak only needs at the most a bit of salt and maybe pepper. (Pass the Ketchup Please!!!)

I totally agree, lets keep sharing this info.

I just hope folks reading this post aren't discouraged from giving Chuck a try especially if they like smoked chuck which I don't like that either.


----------



## bmaddox

luv2putt said:


> Sqwib, great video !!! Gonna have to disagree with you on the chuck though ... I'm currently doing my 4th chucky and have had great success with all of them ...I do mine at 135 for 48 hrs and none which I would get anywhere near callin greasy ... I guess the only difference in mine is that I don't cut them up ...just cook them whole ... Cut and trim after searing ...last one I did I cut up after and used in a stroganoff which came out great... Thinking about doing this one similar to beef bourguignon .... I do like the way beef tastes after a long slow braise , but prefer the tender chew of the sous vide ... Also doing a brisket this week for Stuper bowl ... First one I tried smoking after and it came out great ... I'm thinking of doing this one on the smoker first till temps hit neat 130 , then gonna pull , bag it and soak for 72 hrs... Let's all keep sharing this sous vide info !!!


Let us know how the brisket turns out. That is something I really want to try but I am not completely convinced that it will work (at least not in the way I am thinking it will).


----------



## luv2putt

bmaddox said:


> Let us know how the brisket turns out. That is something I really want to try but I am not completely convinced that it will work (at least not in the way I am thinking it will).



Here is a pic of  the point from my last sous vide brisket...    I had smoked this one after for three hours













image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Dec 23, 2014


















image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Dec 23, 2014


----------



## gary s

Man that thing is pretty !!

Gary


----------



## luv2putt

Squib ....disagree on the  greasy part .... It's not prime rib ... But it's pretty damn good ... Sliced on a piece and it melts in your mouth ... Bursting with flavor ... Here is a few pics and the plated version....48 hours at 135












image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Jan 27, 2015


















image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Jan 27, 2015


















image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Jan 27, 2015


















image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Jan 27, 2015


----------



## jarjarchef

I see in one of the pictures an Iwatani torch being used. Has anyone looked into or used the Searzall? I am very interested in them. The thought of a portable salamander or broiler is cool. I use torches a lot, but you get a bit of an off flavor from them. The videos and information out there say it does not have the gas taste on the food from it.


----------



## gary s

Nice looking plate of food,

Gary


----------



## sqwib

luv2putt said:


> Squib ....disagree on the greasy part .... It's not prime rib ... But it's pretty damn good ... Sliced on a piece and it melts in your mouth ... Bursting with flavor ... Here is a few pics and the plated version....48 hours at 135
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ luv2putt
> __ Jan 27, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ luv2putt
> __ Jan 27, 2015


The last pic is what my greasy tasting pieces look like.

Do me a favor and post a step by step pics or no pics of exactly what you are doing. I want to know how you are spicing and if you are pre-searing etc...

I may give this another shot, but only if I can find a few variances in what I am doing and what you are doing. It just may be that my family and myself just don't like chuck!

A few changes

Higher Temps 142°
No Pre Sear
Post sear on Grill
New meat supplier


----------



## luv2putt

Sqwib,, we are really doing nothing different ... I don't pre sear mine though...it may be just our personal tastes in meats ... I preseason  my  chuck with Montreal seak seasoning .. I do salt mine and let it set in the fridge at least a couple hours first though... Then I bag it , bath it and put fire on it ... I cook it whole , you cut it up ...does the meat taste greasy to you pre sear ? You may just prefer a leaner cut of meat .. That chuck u had in the video was really marveled well .... I've got my brisket season and  in the fridge now...will start it tomorrow !


----------



## sqwib

Update original post with Links!


----------



## bmaddox

luv2putt said:


> Here is a pic of the point from my last sous vide brisket... I had smoked this one after for three hours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ luv2putt
> __ Dec 23, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ luv2putt
> __ Dec 23, 2014


How long did you let it run in the SV and at what temp?


----------



## luv2putt

bmaddox said:


> How long did you let it run in the SV and at what temp?



72 hrs at 138


----------



## gary s

Nice, looks good

Gary


----------



## luv2putt

SQWIB said:


> Update original post with Links!


Here Is the brisket I just pulled off the smoker on super bowl Sunday and a link to the cook
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/177204/brisket-sous-vide-and-smoked













image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Feb 1, 2015


----------



## shtrdave

Looks great, Been thinking about trying something like this only I was going to smoke first.


----------



## gary s

Nice, looks good  Beautiful Color

Gary


----------



## sqwib

luv2putt said:


> Here Is the brisket I just pulled off the smoker on super bowl Sunday and a link to the cook
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/177204/brisket-sous-vide-and-smoked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> __ luv2putt
> __ Feb 1, 2015


Just read your post, great job. You should toss a picture of your setup over here, then I can link to the various setups folks are using on the first post.


----------



## sqwib

Update from my recent Chuck Cooks

Sorry for the blurry pics

Well I used the chuck for the only thing I like with this piece of meat, for me...it is worth the extra time doing a SousVide cook just for stew













20150201006.JPG



__ sqwib
__ Feb 3, 2015


















20150201009.JPG



__ sqwib
__ Feb 3, 2015






Made a loaf of Pepperoni, Smoked provolone for the side.













20150201018.JPG



__ sqwib
__ Feb 3, 2015






I used all the trimmings and chuck from my last few Sous Vide cooks. All the trimmings went into the crock for 24 hours then the fat was ladled off, strained through a course strainer then a fine strainer, added back to the pot with gravy from the previous chucks.
Picked through the meat and shredded the trimmings to thicken the stew.
Added Carrots, Celery stalks, celery leaves, Peas, Onion, Crisped Bacon, butter, soy, sweet vermouth and cooked for a few hours.
My wife says, "that covers most of your food groups, Grain, Vegetable, Protein, then she joked and said, "all but dessert"......





She should have never said that....
Chopped a cup of chunked pineapples and tossed them in there.
I mentioned to one of the parents in a picture text that I was bringing the boys a hot meal and told him what I was making, he replied, "hey beer is in the food group" (I think I covered this with the vermouth...




)
Cooked some Barley in water, beef bullion and soy sauce just shy of the suggested cook time by 15 minutes then added to the stew.
Added some beef base powder, teaspoon of black pepper, a few dashes of hot sauce, tablespoon of fresh crushed garlic.
Chopped and added the SV chuck and top round to the stew, cooked a few hours.
Peeled and added the potatoes, cooked another hour, Thickened with a bit of Corn Starch then into the freezer.
This is a stew I am making for the Boys on their Klondike this weekend It's pretty dam good, it passed the wife test and I'm sure the boys will appreciate a hot bowl of stew in below 20 weather, although by Saturday its supposed to be in the upper 30's, this may be a muddy mess.
...


----------



## sqwib

luv2putt said:


> Here Is the brisket I just pulled off the smoker on super bowl Sunday and a link to the cook
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/177204/brisket-sous-vide-and-smoked





SQWIB said:


> Just read your post, great job. You should toss a picture of your setup over here, then I can link to the various setups folks are using on the first post.


I'll throw my setup in there and hopefully others will as well.


----------



## luv2putt

So my sous vide weapon of choice is the Sansaire  unit that  I purchased on sale n November ..I have used it quite a bit since then with the prerequisite  eggs , chicken , pork chops, baby back ribs ,turkey meat loafs  and BEEF... Beef is where it shines ! I've done rib eyes , chuck roast , and brisket!! And I Ed used several diff vessels to cook in ,, stock pot , 10 gal pot I used for brewing  and even an ice chest ! The i erosion cooker is fun addition to my cooking equipment and food a perfect compliment to my smoker ... My plan is to continue to experiment and just have fun !! 












image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Feb 3, 2015


















image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Feb 3, 2015


----------



## bmaddox

I have been running a home made SV rig for just over a year. It is very limited in what it can cook and how well it controls temps but it got me started for around $40 (I already had an extra crock pot). I get temp fluctuations of +/- 2 degrees which works for me. One day I will step up to an immersion circulator (or build my own using my existing controller).













IMG_0670.JPG



__ bmaddox
__ Feb 3, 2015


----------



## sqwib

Thanks Guys updated links in first post.


----------



## luv2putt

Sous vide trip .... Plan was to sous vide then right on the grill ....but weather and work did not cooperate ... Sous vide 12 hrs , ice bath, fridge , grill pan next night .... Still came out really good though!,













image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Feb 8, 2015


















image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Feb 8, 2015


















image.jpg



__ luv2putt
__ Feb 8, 2015


----------



## gary s

Looks Real Good !!!

Gary


----------



## idahopz

Good thread!  It is difficult to over cook food using this method. I once did a pork loin and it was so tender you'd have sworn that it was tenderloin.  Fish also turns out perfectly cooked

I chose the Anova because it is portable enough to take with us in the RV, plus plenty stout enough to do the job for bigger parties. The other thing is that this company is the one that makes precision water baths for scientific research labs, so temperature maintenance is extremely precise.
One trick I use is to heat the water in a large metal pot on the stove which assists the unit in bringing the water to temperature.  This saves quite a bit of time, but you need to stay with the stove until the water reaches temperature and then shut off the stove. The aluminum foil ensures that I have minimal water loss.













IMG_3196.JPG



__ idahopz
__ Nov 12, 2015





This machine is super easy to use - set the time and temperature and you're off to the races.  One thing I like is that you practically cannot over cook, so if you have late guests, no problem - keep the steaks in the bath until you are ready. I've checked the water temperature using a digital instant read, and the numbers matched.













IMG_3395.JPG



__ idahopz
__ Nov 12, 2015





After the meat is done, I like to use the infrared sear burner on my gas grill to sear the steaks - very fast and does not overcook the meat













20140702_173329.jpg



__ idahopz
__ Nov 12, 2015





Cooked just the way we like it













20140702_173705.jpg



__ idahopz
__ Nov 12, 2015


----------



## daveomak

Good lookin' meal....   Thumbs Up...


----------



## sqwib

Wow, awesome equipment and great looking food, thanks for sharing.


----------



## smokin monkey

I have looked at the Anova unit myself. Good looking plate of food!

I cook all our Pork Loins in the water bath, cooked 10 whole loins last weekend for an event. We then remove them, remove any excess fat then use a Propane torch to put some color on them!


----------



## mummel

Very nice thread, subbing.


----------



## roller

The hot plate that I see forsale on TV wouldn`t it do the same thing ? The one that is temp controlled..

.


----------



## sqwib

Roller said:


> The hot plate that I see forsale on TV wouldn`t it do the same thing ? The one that is temp controlled..
> 
> .


Not sure if that would work, you would still need to circulate the water to keep even temps, if its cheap enough it may be worth a try.


----------



## roller

Its funny I ran across this post because I have been looking at these units the past week...really interested in this type cooking..


----------



## 3montes

I just ordered a Vac Master Duo 550 from Lisa today. That is the new chamber and suction vacum unit in one. So I can see myself looking into souse vide cooking soon.


----------



## genek

Roller, over the years I have built many sous vide controllers  and systems from deep fryers, crock pots, roasting ovens and even a turkey fryer.

The main thing I have found that the home brew tend to lack the circulation and that is critical for good temperature regulation. Most of the systems tended to build up a lot of calcium on the elements and submersible pumps that I used. ( And I live in Oregon which is on the soft side of hard water.)

Finally I got the Anova expecting to have to clean it after each use to prevent the build up. But I don't have to disassemble and clean very often.

The cooking hobs do a reasonable temperature control and could be used to experiment with long term low temp cooking, however they adjust in either 10 or 20 degree steps. For things like eggs 1/2 degree makes a large difference. The hob would be like those fellows who do sous vide in a cooler by pouring hot water in when the temp starts to get low.

GeneK


----------



## daveomak

GeneK, evening....  I've got fairly hard water here....   Sometimes I use distilled water but mostly I add 1 tsp. vinegar to the water...  that's in about 2 gallons...   seems it's enough to stop the "calcium / sulfates" buildup....


----------



## sqwib

GeneK said:


> Roller, over the years I have built many sous vide controllers  and systems from deep fryers, crock pots, roasting ovens and even a turkey fryer.
> 
> The main thing I have found that the home brew tend to lack the circulation and that is critical for good temperature regulation. *Most of the systems tended to build up a lot of calcium on the elements and submersible pumps that I used. *( And I live in Oregon which is on the soft side of hard water.)
> 
> Finally I got the Anova expecting to have to clean it after each use to prevent the build up. But I don't have to disassemble and clean very often.
> 
> The cooking hobs do a reasonable temperature control and could be used to experiment with long term low temp cooking, however they adjust in either 10 or 20 degree steps. For things like eggs 1/2 degree makes a large difference. The hob would be like those fellows who do sous vide in a cooler by pouring hot water in when the temp starts to get low.
> 
> GeneK


Gene, I am curious about the submersible pumps getting a build up, does that have to do with the heat along with the hard water?

I have a 2 large fish tanks and two ponds and never had the slightest buildup, some of these pumps have been running non-stop for 5 years, I also had an inline pump running a hydroponcs setup with no problem and used a mini aquarium pump for my first sous vide machine with no problem??

Just an FYI for folks using aquarium pumps or powerheads to circulate the water, 170 - 180° is pushing it, so if you do veggies, be careful of the temp.


----------



## sqwib

Roller said:


> Its funny I ran across this post because I have been looking at these units the past week...really interested in this type cooking..


Roller, if you want to try this at a low cost look into a temp controller build, here's one that I use sometimes.

Temperature Controller

This has a 3°F temp swing and a nice way to get your feet wet.


----------



## mr t 59874

Roller said:


> Its funny I ran across this post because I have been looking at these units the past week...really interested in this type cooking..


I have done steaks a few times now in a pot of water using both my Amerique and gas stove. Seems to be working well but I would imagine the proper equipment would be easier. Until then though, I have not had a problem with the steaks.

T


----------



## genek

SQWIB, sorry I didn't get back sooner but life keeps getting in the way. I think the build up is caused by the sensor being too far from the element allowing the water on the heating element to actually boil and distill the solids out and let them collect on various parts of the system. The Anova seems to have three sensors with two directly coupled physically to the heating element. The third is spaced out a ways and I'm sure it is the master for the water temp and the others to prevent the element over heating.

GeneK


----------



## sqwib

GeneK said:


> SQWIB, sorry I didn't get back sooner but life keeps getting in the way. I think the build up is caused by the sensor being too far from the element allowing the water on the heating element to actually boil and distill the solids out and let them collect on various parts of the system. The Anova seems to have three sensors with two directly coupled physically to the heating element. The third is spaced out a ways and I'm sure it is the master for the water temp and the others to prevent the element over heating.
> 
> GeneK


That is very interesting.


----------

