# Please reel me in on Lang or Shirley - big or small stick burner



## Bigpappa1 (Jan 15, 2020)

Hi All,

I'm as stuck as the next guy on how big of a smoker to get.  As everyone probably feels, my situation may be unique.  I'm saving my money for a late summer/fall purchase.  I can manage to save a couple hundred per month starting in March, so kind of do the math from there.  I was looking at the Lang 36" or the Shirley 24x36.

Pros of the Lang 36" - It would probably do everything I need and...it's a Lang, so...

Cons of the Lang 36" - I really want the 36" deluxe with the warmer box and the modification to get heat directly from the firebox to the warmer box so I can use it for different kinds of cooks.  That, or I would really want the 48" just to feel like I will always have the size I want. 

Here is the issue with the cons: I do need to fit it in my garage and with two small boys, I already am getting run out of our two-stall.  Also, it's just me and my wife and our two kids (maybe a third sometime).  The fact is, most of the time when I cook I'm doing a brisket OR some ribs OR a pork butt.  On a 36" I can cook plenty of those combinations all day long, WAY more food than our little family would need.  99% of the time, this is all I do.  Yet, I still find myself wanting the bigger one.  I keep thinking "oh, maybe I'll be able to cook for some event or some friends or something like that".  Yeah, because with two kids under 2 years old I have all kinds of time for that right now.  It could easily be years before I have the kind of free time and attention it would take to actually expand my cooking into doing it for others.  Yet I hear everyone's advice about buying too small...

On to the Shirley...

Pros: Lots of cooking space in a relatively small footprint, and you do seem to get a lot for the money.  Plus...it's a Shirley, so...

Cons: Really there's just one: I'd have to wait until about November before I could order it, and I REALLY wanted to order sooner.  Also, I suspect shipping will be more expensive and arduous as they aren't the most shipping-friendly, not as much or as experienced and Lang seems to be anyway.

I admit that I feel a strange calling towards the Lang over the Shirley for some reason.

My point is, I don't need more smoker than I need, but I want to feel satisfied also.  I have looked at guys like Bell Fab and his units are certainly awesome, but I'm going to be pretty picky on the weld quality and looks, which is why I'm playing in the price range that I am.  I CAN wait, I just don't want to wait unnecessarily if 98% of the time what's going to be on my smoker is two racks of ribs (or one, honestly) and a few chicken quarters.  We all want to impress for that one big cook per year, but hell I managed to do that with an 18" WSM, two 22" Weber kettles, and a good faux cambro. 

And yet...I want the size that I probably don't need...

Can somebody help screw my head on straight?


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## WildewoodBBQ (Jan 15, 2020)

As someone in a fairly similar family size, my recommendation is to get what makes you happy,  especially if you can afford to get them by the end of the year. 

The good thing about what you are looking at is it COULD entice you to start putting on more of a bbq show every couple of months or even once a month. You also for instance trading your current smoker(s) for the new one, so you can always do your small ones and then when you have a big event, bust out the showpiece.


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## Electric88 (Jan 15, 2020)

Was going to suggest Bellfab, but saw in the bottom of your post you already considered them.

Out of curiosity (and not to sidetrack you post), was there something you've seen from his pictures that has caused you to lean away from him? I'm not trying to persuade you to get one, I'm more interested in knowing because I myself was considering one from him. Just spoke with him today actually to get some ideas of price and timeline should I pull the trigger.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 15, 2020)

Hi Electric,

His quality and value are easily off the charts.  I don't think that I have seen a better bang for the buck on the market anywhere.  The guy uses 3/8" steel standard.  I have checked with several people who have his units and they simply love them.  I want to make sure that I tell you all that as my hesitance is NOT one of quality or value.  The thing that I have seen in pictures of his stuff that holds me back are the welding on the corners - while solid - is not as tidy and pretty as I might like.  It's totally solid and functional, I am just looking for a unit that has a bit more cosmetic polish to it.  

Again, I have personally spoke with his users and they love it, hands-down.  I don't think anyone can hold a candle to his value and authenticated fan base.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 15, 2020)

WildewoodBBQ said:


> As someone in a fairly similar family size, my recommendation is to get what makes you happy,  especially if you can afford to get them by the end of the year.
> 
> The good thing about what you are looking at is it COULD entice you to start putting on more of a bbq show every couple of months or even once a month. You also for instance trading your current smoker(s) for the new one, so you can always do your small ones and then when you have a big event, bust out the showpiece.


I had thought about that, though I'm back to how much time I will really have (plus putting on those deals gets expensive).  At the same time, I know I will do it sooner or later.  You make a point about calling it good enough if I can get it by year-end...


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## Electric88 (Jan 15, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> Hi Electric,
> 
> His quality and value are easily off the charts.  I don't think that I have seen a better bang for the buck on the market anywhere.  The guy uses 3/8" steel standard.  I have checked with several people who have his units and they simply love them.  I want to make sure that I tell you all that as my hesitance is NOT one of quality or value.  The thing that I have seen in pictures of his stuff that holds me back are the welding on the corners - while solid - is not as tidy and pretty as I might like.  It's totally solid and functional, I am just looking for a unit that has a bit more cosmetic polish to it.
> 
> Again, I have personally spoke with his users and they love it, hands-down.  I don't think anyone can hold a candle to his value and authenticated fan base.



That's understandable, and I can appreciate that. Thank you for your honesty! I hope you get a smoker that meets all your wants/needs! 

As for size, I am with you there. When talking with him, it didn't take much to convince me to buy bigger than what I thought now and grow into it. Even if I never do haha


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## jcam222 (Jan 15, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm as stuck as the next guy on how big of a smoker to get.  As everyone probably feels, my situation may be unique.  I'm saving my money for a late summer/fall purchase.  I can manage to save a couple hundred per month starting in March, so kind of do the math from there.  I was looking at the Lang 36" or the Shirley 24x36.
> 
> ...


I think in so many words you have answered your own question. Shirley has only one con which is waiting longer. Waiting is not an issue for you. Decisions made :)


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 15, 2020)

jcam222 said:


> I think in so many words you have answered your own question. Shirley has only one con which is waiting longer. Waiting is not an issue for you. Decisions made :)


Is Shirley that good?  I hear so much about their quality but I think I know less about their functionality.  They sure look well made...


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## jcam222 (Jan 15, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> Is Shirley that good?  I hear so much about their quality but I think I know less about their functionality.  They sure look well made...


Honestly don’t know. I was simplying going off your pro and con list. I tell you the one that has a cult like following and that’s the Jambo.


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## Nole4L (Jan 15, 2020)

I can't speak about the Shirley but I know about that Lang.  I have a Lang 36 Hybrid Deluxe with the option to get heat into the warmer either through the cook chamber or directly from the firebox into the warmer box (in the bottom of the warmer).  When I was looking wasn't really looking for the warmer box but I found a deal that was too good to pass up.  Now I wouldn't want to do without it.  It's nice to have that extra space and have the option to have it as a cook chamber or a warmer.  My Lang is well designed and well built and is great to cook on.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 15, 2020)

Nole4L said:


> I can't speak about the Shirley but I know about that Lang.  I have a Lang 36 Hybrid Deluxe with the option to get heat into the warmer either through the cook chamber or directly from the firebox into the warmer box (in the bottom of the warmer).  When I was looking wasn't really looking for the warmer box but I found a deal that was too good to pass up.  Now I wouldn't want to do without it.  It's nice to have that extra space and have the option to have it as a cook chamber or a warmer.  My Lang is well designed and well built and is great to cook on.


Yeah, that warmer box.  Let me ask, how hot can you get that?  It’s really only worth it to me if I can run the main chamber at 250 or so and run the box at chicken temps, say 350-400.  Can you do that?


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## phatbac (Jan 15, 2020)

Ok I'm going to start by saying I'm a Lang guy to the end.i have owned 2 36 and 48 about to buy a third. Hybrid 36 D The 36 is plenty big for all your needs. When I went to the 48 it was a definite size increase and I cooked for over 100 ppl and didn't fill the 48. It was more than I needed. Spend your money on deluxe 36 over standard 48 because you will add versitility to your cooker.
There is nothing wrong with Shirley and they make a great smoker, but I love a Lang smoker cooker and they are really easy to resell if you need to up grade or something. They are built to last a lifetime and a joy to cook with Everytime!

Happy Smoking,
phatbac (Aaron)


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## civilsmoker (Jan 15, 2020)

Both Lang and Shirley both very good choices. I don’t have either but I incorporated many of the good things from both into my copper pot build and even my X-Fire build.

Here is my copper pot. It has a 3/8” fire box and it has the gate from the HCC to the VCC as well as from the fire box just like the Shirley’s. This is an awesome additional functionality. The VCC is much more stable and controllable to temp than the HCC







The inside of my fire box is also similar to Shirley ‘s new fire box. It has an open bottom and front and the sides and back is solid. It actually creates a air gap (insulated) around the actual fire and helps with efficiency.






The door construction on my VCC I used are also matched to Shirley.

So I can’t speak directly to how a Shirley cooks but I can say the design features he and his son have work extremely well!

this is just me, but if money or time wasn’t an issue (and if I didn’t build my own) a Shirley would be on the top of my list, then the Lang.  If money and time was an issue a lang makes it easy! ....... I would be happy with either!  But having the warming box with the direct fire box gate would be a must for me with either! Adding this functionality to the copper more than doubled the construction effort and it was worth it IMOP!

Good luck, with the choice because in the end it’s yours to make!


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## civilsmoker (Jan 15, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> Yeah, that warmer box.  Let me ask, how hot can you get that?  It’s really only worth it to me if I can run the main chamber at 250 or so and run the box at chicken temps, say 350-400.  Can you do that?



this may seem backwards but if you want 2 temps as above, the HCC can run at 350 and your VCC will run about 75 degree less or equal to just above the HCC with everything wide open.


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## Nole4L (Jan 16, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> Yeah, that warmer box.  Let me ask, how hot can you get that?  It’s really only worth it to me if I can run the main chamber at 250 or so and run the box at chicken temps, say 350-400.  Can you do that?


I haven't tried getting my temps that high but I assume you could.  My warmer has 2 baffles that allow you to open up directly from the firebox to the warmer.   There's also a removable steel plate that sits in the bottom of the warmer.  So you can run it with the baffles open and plate in or with the plate out.  With the baffles open and the plate out you're directly over the fire which would get pretty warm.  I have the hybrid so when I want to cook up in the 400 degree range I use the chargrill side.  

Again I don't know anything about the Shirley smoker but I haven't heard anyone who owns a Lang cooker say anything other than they love it.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 16, 2020)

Nole4L said:


> I haven't tried getting my temps that high but I assume you could.  My warmer has 2 baffles that allow you to open up directly from the firebox to the warmer.   There's also a removable steel plate that sits in the bottom of the warmer.  So you can run it with the baffles open and plate in or with the plate out.  With the baffles open and the plate out you're directly over the fire which would get pretty warm.  I have the hybrid so when I want to cook up in the 400 degree range I use the chargrill side.
> 
> Again I don't know anything about the Shirley smoker but I haven't heard anyone who owns a Lang cooker say anything other than they love it.


That starts to seem more attractive.  With the option of the damper from the firebox that puts the cooker at the same price as the Shirley, but it gives me another level of functionality.  It really starts to seem like the difference between the two is a very slight edge to Shirley for better finish.  Does that mean that Lang has not so good of fit and finish???


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 16, 2020)

civilsmoker said:


> Both Lang and Shirley both very good choices. I don’t have either but I incorporated many of the good things from both into my copper pot build and even my X-Fire build.
> 
> Here is my copper pot. It has a 3/8” fire box and it has the gate from the HCC to the VCC as well as from the fire box just like the Shirley’s. This is an awesome additional functionality. The VCC is much more stable and controllable to temp than the HCC
> View attachment 428693
> ...


That’s a really cool looking unit!  Nice work!


phatbac said:


> Ok I'm going to start by saying I'm a Lang guy to the end.i have owned 2 36 and 48 about to buy a third. Hybrid 36 D The 36 is plenty big for all your needs. When I went to the 48 it was a definite size increase and I cooked for over 100 ppl and didn't fill the 48. It was more than I needed. Spend your money on deluxe 36 over standard 48 because you will add versitility to your cooker.
> There is nothing wrong with Shirley and they make a great smoker, but I love a Lang smoker cooker and they are really easy to resell if you need to up grade or something. They are built to last a lifetime and a joy to cook with Everytime!
> 
> Happy Smoking,
> phatbac (Aaron)


thank you for the info.  Do you feel like the fit and finish on Lang is top shelf?  I have trouble seeing one in person without driving 14 hours to Georgia...


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## Nole4L (Jan 16, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> That starts to seem more attractive.  With the option of the damper from the firebox that puts the cooker at the same price as the Shirley, but it gives me another level of functionality.  It really starts to seem like the difference between the two is a very slight edge to Shirley for better finish.  Does that mean that Lang has not so good of fit and finish???


I am assuming that by "fit and finish" you mean the quality of the workmanship?  If that is the case I have no issues at all with the Lang.  I've occasionally read where people started looking and found things like a small hole in the weld on the very bottom of the cooker....and they took off on Lang quality.  Ends up it's there by design in case water gets down into that bottom area that's otherwise somewhat sealed off.   The "defect" was on purpose and is on all their cookers apparently.  No complaints about quality or performance.


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## sawhorseray (Jan 16, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> I have trouble seeing one in person without driving 14 hours to Georgia...



Where in the country are you located? RAY


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## Nole4L (Jan 16, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> That’s a really cool looking unit!  Nice work!
> 
> thank you for the info.  Do you feel like the fit and finish on Lang is top shelf?  I have trouble seeing one in person without driving 14 hours to Georgia...


I read a few months ago where Lang was going to start selling through distributors.  









						A Letter From Ben Lang - Lang BBQ Smokers Blog
					

This letter from Ben Lang thanks custommers and lets them know what he and the Lang family has planned for Lang BBQ Smokers in the future.




					blog.langbbqsmokers.com
				




Not sure of the status of this but it might be worth checking if you wanted to get a first hand look.  Otherwise if you can find someone here who owns one close to you that might work.  I think there's a Lang owners group on Facebook...I think....


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 16, 2020)

civilsmoker said:


> Both Lang and Shirley both very good choices. I don’t have either but I incorporated many of the good things from both into my copper pot build and even my X-Fire build.
> 
> Here is my copper pot. It has a 3/8” fire box and it has the gate from the HCC to the VCC as well as from the fire box just like the Shirley’s. This is an awesome additional functionality. The VCC is much more stable and controllable to temp than the HCC
> View attachment 428693
> ...


Thats a cool looking unit!


sawhorseray said:


> Where in the country are you located? RAY


Iowa


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## civilsmoker (Jan 16, 2020)

Bigpappa1 said:


> Thats a cool looking unit!



Thanks bigpappa1!   

I just wanted to add that the design of, and actual fire air flow is "THE" most important part of a stick burner.  It doesn't matter how good a weld is or how good it looks if it doesn't burn or flow good....... Both a Lang and Shirley will burn and flow good because they both have earned the reputation as doing such.  Lang are full 1/4" steel everywhere, and Shirley's are a combination of 3/8" & 1/4" with the round pipe part being 3/8" &  all the other stuff is 1/4".  Other design differences include:  Lang has about 1/3 of the fire box extended into the HCC to help transfer some additional radiant heat. Shirley has no FB in the HCC, which helps keep a more uniform HCC but is not as efficient.   Lang has a "sunken" smoke stack drawing air from about 1/3 down inside the HCC, where Shirley draws from the top of the HCC.  There are benefits and strengths to both of these differences and it comes down to how you want to use the smoker. 

 Also unless you are planning on doing parties and large groups I would recommend the smallest size in either brand.  Its not very efficient to smoke a single port butt or 2 racks of ribs on a 48" cooker.  That just wastes wood. That said the Lang 36 will be a bit more compact and lighter than the small Shirley (unless your doing a full custom build) so it would be a better fit for your garage situation.

An additional thought.....I can say that If I were to go and buy fresh steel and make a 36" inch deluxe Lang model copy,  I would be in to it for the same $$$ in steel and materials as what Lang sells them for so I'm not sure I know how they build them and sell them for that price.  If I were to sell my Copper pot I would want about 2.6-3K plus shipping........IE a similar price to what Shirley sells there for.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 16, 2020)

civilsmoker said:


> Thanks bigpappa1!
> 
> I just wanted to add that the design of, and actual fire air flow is "THE" most important part of a stick burner.  It doesn't matter how good a weld is or how good it looks if it doesn't burn or flow good....... Both a Lang and Shirley will burn and flow good because they both have earned the reputation as doing such.  Lang are full 1/4" steel everywhere, and Shirley's are a combination of 3/8" & 1/4" with the round pipe part being 3/8" &  all the other stuff is 1/4".  Other design differences include:  Lang has about 1/3 of the fire box extended into the HCC to help transfer some additional radiant heat. Shirley has no FB in the HCC, which helps keep a more uniform HCC but is not as efficient.   Lang has a "sunken" smoke stack drawing air from about 1/3 down inside the HCC, where Shirley draws from the top of the HCC.  There are benefits and strengths to both of these differences and it comes down to how you want to use the smoker.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for that information, Civil.  I really appreciate it! 
My guess is that he is buying materials at a MUCH cheaper rate than a single user.  I actually used to work for the 2nd largest consumer of sheet steel in the country and you can believe that we bought it right. 
Your post makes me want to build one, an idea I had entertained a while back.  With the kids being so little, though, I just don’t have the time or space.  Thanks again, that kind of info is really awesome to know!

You make a good point on the size as well.  Honestly, 51 out of 52 weekends that thing is going to see a rack of ribs...and that’s it.  Okay, a lot of times I throw chicken thighs in there and I mix it up on the ribs, but still.  My 18” WSM gives me all the space I need for my family right now, just harder for big cooks.  Those cooks are more of a rarity than something I’m really doing all the time so...the decision path is getting clearer...ish...


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 16, 2020)

Nole4L said:


> I am assuming that by "fit and finish" you mean the quality of the workmanship?  If that is the case I have no issues at all with the Lang.  I've occasionally read where people started looking and found things like a small hole in the weld on the very bottom of the cooker....and they took off on Lang quality.  Ends up it's there by design in case water gets down into that bottom area that's otherwise somewhat sealed off.   The "defect" was on purpose and is on all their cookers apparently.  No complaints about quality or performance.


Yeah, Lang looks very nice.  Good consistent welds and such.  I assume the doors fit good and tight and all, though I have heard a complaint or two out there, but that’s it.  One thing that I really like about the Shirley and some others is how they grind and polish the welds around the end of the HCC.  I think that’s a really nice touch to make the unit look like a piece of patio furniture, a fixture.  Knowing how little difference that makes with performance though, I sometimes consider getting Bell on the phone knowing how much I could get for the buck...oh, decisions...I’m trying too hard.  I want it to be a one-time purchase.  I may need to accept that someday, I just might buy another one...


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## Alphonse (Jan 16, 2020)

civilsmoker said:


> Thanks bigpappa1!
> 
> I just wanted to add . . . . . .
> 
> ...





 civilsmoker
 your advice regarding size is spot on.   My observation of folks buying pits that are substantially larger than they need is a bit sad.  They will never really use the capacity and the fuel efficiency will always be low.


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## civilsmoker (Jan 16, 2020)

I have a crazy thought for you..........you could always get the standard Lang 36 and start making memories and enjoying a very fine cooker.......then if you want a little more functionally later when you have the room and time, just add a vertical cooking chamber on the Lang yourself.......you could also clean up the welds and make it as perty as you want too.......it’s kind of like getting your cake and getting it to eat it later too......


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## Nole4L (Jan 17, 2020)

ye


Bigpappa1 said:


> Yeah, Lang looks very nice.  Good consistent welds and such.  I assume the doors fit good and tight and all, though I have heard a complaint or two out there, but that’s it.  One thing that I really like about the Shirley and some others is how they grind and polish the welds around the end of the HCC.  I think that’s a really nice touch to make the unit look like a piece of patio furniture, a fixture.  Knowing how little difference that makes with performance though, I sometimes consider getting Bell on the phone knowing how much I could get for the buck...oh, decisions...I’m trying too hard.  I want it to be a one-time purchase.  I may need to accept that someday, I just might buy another one...


I don't have any complaints about the fit of the doors, etc.  My Lang seals well and has latches on both sides that add to that.  Having said that I'm not someone who thinks that you can take two pieces of steel and seal it up like a refrigerator door.  I've seen folks who do all sorts of mods putting silicone gaskets, etc to try and accomplish this.  To all about maintaining an even temperature, not a completely sealed cook chamber.   In the case of the Lang and the Shirley they have so much mass that they hold temp well.  Not saying I have leaks....just not something I worry about because the temperature of the chamber stays pretty consistent once it's rolling.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 19, 2020)

You have all given me a lot of really good advice and things to think about.  

Civilmoker: I see your point, I just don't want to do any mods or add-ons later on.  If I need to make an adjustment, I think I would rather just wait longer and order it stock from the OEM.  I'm coming to terms with the idea that I will probably need to spend more towards the $2k mark to get what I want.  I think you and Alphnose are dead-on about the size as well.  As much as people advise getting a size bigger than you think you will need, I really do have to come back to the fact that I literally cook a rack of ribs and some chicken 99% of the time.  That's it.  Either of the smaller patio smokers I'm looking at would manage that and plenty more, very easily.  There's no sense in smoking 1 rack of ribs on a 48" smoker.  

Nole4L: That's really great info to hear from someone who owns one.  I've been looking for that kind of insight from someone that has one, so it's really helpful.  Here are the things I see as differentiating factors between the two smokers.  All of these things beings laid out, I can see how someone would think it's nitpicking.  Then again when you get to the top of the line,  the differences DO tend to be a bit nitpicky.  

*A little bit of fit and finish*

Shirley on the left and Lang on the right











Tough Shirley's welds look to be superior, I can't say that the Lang welding is below part...AT ALL.  I work in industrial automation with robotic welding being one of the things that we provide.  I wouldn't be surprised if those welds on the lang are done via robot.  That's not a knock, just the way it looks.  I can't imagine Lang could keep up with demand without some automation.  The point I'm making here, is about the placement of the welds and where the joinery is finished off.  The edge of the Shirley - where the pipe meets the end - is nice and rounded on the Shirley.  I happen to like that.  I think it's a really nice touch that makes the unit look like a piece of furniture, which is something I appreciate.  

*Door Finish/Framing*

Shirley on the left and Lang on the right




















Looking at the fit and finish in the doors, it appears that Shirley just kind of buttons theirs up a bit more neatly.  To be fair, Shirley's may look a little better simply because they have the door stop inset, lending to a more streamlined finish, whereas Lang has the door stops on the outside which, at least when opened, leaves the door opening look a little less refined (all just an opinion of course).  I also notice that Shirley has a slide-out fire rack in there, which is a nice touch.

*Other Notes*
- *Removable Racks - *All of Shirley's racks slide out where only Lang's top one does.  I could see all racks being sliding very convenient when you want to get at something that might be located towards the back on the bottom rack.  Wrestling around the meat in that tight space would get old, but then again, it probably wouldn't be that frequent.  

- *Cooking Space - *The Shirley clearly offers the most cooking space per square foot of floor space, even with the warmer.

- *Two Cooking Zones and Price - *If I want two cooking zones I'm going to have to put a warmer on a Shirley which is going to raise the price (I have an email into them to see how much).  The Lang comes at the same price as the Shirley with the warmer and vents already included.  

- * Thickness of Cooking Chamber - *I need to nail this down, but Shirley says their cook chamber is 3/8" as opposed to Lang's 1/4".  I say I need to nail that down because I just watched a video where Shirley said that only the end round part of the cooker is 3/8" but the cabinet is 1/4".  That doesn't make sense to me, so it's worth asking.  3/8" doesn't seem like much, but it's 50% thicker.  Living in Iowa winters, that could be helpful.

- *Intangibles and Company Culture - *This might seem odd, but being in the job that I am, I can't NOT notice these things.  When you look around some of the cut-outs on the Lang (firebox opening, cut-outs in pin-wheel vents, even the main chamber) it looks like they are using a low-res plasma or something.  I can tell by the wavy edges and occasional knicks and tool path cut-ins on the corners.  I'm surprised they wouldn't be using a laser or even a hi-def plasma.  Shirley's look super clean, which tells me that they are at least paying attention to this.  I'm just surprised that with as long as Lang has been in business it doesn't look like they are re-investing in their output quality.  I'm not in their shop so I don't know that for sure, but it looks like it from the outside.  

The same can be said for their marketing. The website looks dated, even though it appears to have current information.  Their cooker pictures still show units that don't have slide-out racks which is standard for them now.  They also aren't the most telling pictures, they could be more involved.  It's also surprising how few videos they have on YouTube for the patio models.  They don't even have a walk-through, you have to find someone else that does, which are also few.  Shirley appears to have a modern and up-to-date approach to their marketing, particularly with YouTube.  While this is a critique of their business approach, it is mostly a complaint that I can't get a good vision of the cooker from a distance.  Shirley makes that very easy and in-depth.  Lang's videos seem to be dated and sparse.  It can kind of seem like they are resting on their laurels a bit, which just gives me a bum perspective when spending money with them.  

All said, I'm still a little unsure, but to be honest I'm leaning Shirley.  That could still change as the Lang's just plain WORK.  All of the things I have pointed out are pretty damned small.  I'll let you know what Shirley says about price for adding on a warmer box with a vent for two-zone cooks.


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## johnh12 (Jan 19, 2020)

FWIW I've had a Lang 36 that I thought was too small so I sold it and got a Lang 60D. The 60D has everything you said you really want but the reality for me was that it was more than I really needed.
I recently sold the 60D and ordered a Shirley Fab 24 x 36 that s/b delivered soon, I hope.
As far as the Lang 36 vs the 48, you don't really gain that much cooking space with the 48 IMO.
The Shirley 24 x 36 wait is about 4 to 8 weeks so it's the same as the Lang I think.
I can't speak for the Bell Fab at all but most pics I saw look like it's a traditional flow, not a reverse flow. I could be wrong about that though. The Langs and Shirleys are both reverse flow.
As far as shipping... You didn't say where you're located. Lang will arrange shipping but the primary Shirley shipper is Kevin White (850-240-269). Call him for a quote and call Lang for their quote.
I don't think you can go wrong with either manufacturer. Of course "pretty" was never a factor that I considered. I wanted functional and I think the reverse flow of either is the way to go.
Whatever you go with will be very easy to sell if you change your mind about size.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 19, 2020)

johnh12 said:


> FWIW I've had a Lang 36 that I thought was too small so I sold it and got a Lang 60D. The 60D has everything you said you really want but the reality for me was that it was more than I really needed.
> I recently sold the 60D and ordered a Shirley Fab 24 x 36 that s/b delivered soon, I hope.
> As far as the Lang 36 vs the 48, you don't really gain that much cooking space with the 48 IMO.
> The Shirley 24 x 36 wait is about 4 to 8 weeks so it's the same as the Lang I think.
> ...


Yes, the Bell units are traditional, which I actually can see advantages to when you think about creating different zones within a cooker.  That's something that is on my radar.  I'm located in Iowa.  Lang quoted me $500 for shipping for the 36" unit, whether a deluxe or not.  My guess is that Shirley would be a bit more, either for weight or because I am guessing they don't use LTL.  I used to do a lot of shipping so it's not out of the question that I would just try to find a flatbed coming through the area with 8' of open trailer they're looking to make some money on and broker it.  That would be the easiest loading for them and the safest shipping for the unit, in my opinion.  I can unload it with a forklift at my brother's shop and then car trailer it to my house.  Voila.  Then again, if this Kevin fellow is the guy for Shirley, I'm happy to use him as well.


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## johnh12 (Jan 19, 2020)

The Shirley facilities in Tuscaloosa, AL are closer to Iowa than the Langs in Nahunta, GA.
The wait for a stock 24 x 36 and delivery might be close.
Good luck with whatever you chose. As I said, any of the 3 you've mentioned will cook up some great Q.


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## Bigpappa1 (Jan 20, 2020)

johnh12 said:


> The Shirley facilities in Tuscaloosa, AL are closer to Iowa than the Langs in Nahunta, GA.
> The wait for a stock 24 x 36 and delivery might be close.
> Good luck with whatever you chose. As I said, any of the 3 you've mentioned will cook up some great Q.


Thanks, John.  They are actually 4 hours closer to my hometown, so that could be a reasonable difference in shipping.


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## nutt (Feb 3, 2020)

I understand what your looking at as my old man is a professional welder(retired now) so I grew up around the industry. I noticed as well a few minor things regarding the finish on bell fab smokers but given his wait list and the positive response to his rigs......and let’s not forget his price point dear lord!
And Bell fab is doing his own work! So call him and talk shop!  
Maybe influence you down the road????


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## nutt (Feb 3, 2020)

I know when “welders” found out what my father did they thought it was cool and liked to talk. So maybe the appreciation would the same once you guys interacted a bit? And would sell you on his product hence you would get a rig sooner?

Either way you will get a good cooker but will have to look at it every time you go outside so......That’s the hard part right! LoL


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## soonersigmachi (Nov 1, 2020)

If you are concerned with aesthetics I would get a Shirley and then Lang.  With Bell Fab you are going to get a well made smoker, but the aesthetics are not of high priority, given the pricing I understand.


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## Phxbbq (Nov 5, 2020)

If those are your two choices I'd go Shirley.


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