# Brisket too big???



## jeepdiver (Sep 6, 2007)

Well after spending a week looking around here for a packer brisket, and only being able to find 4 lb flats, I finally found a place that had full briskets. Only problem is the smallest one they had was 18.5 lbs 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 and has very little of a fat cap.

So does everyone think this will smoke up ok. I'm planning on starting it on my propane GOSM tonight for a few hours, then once I get the temp right top the water pan and wood box off and let it go all night. I figure it will be ready to wrap early tomorrow morning and finish cooking by lunch.

I've cooked smaller ones (10-12 lbs) overnight before the same way, but I'm a little worried about this monster taking to long, and without a good fat cap drying out too much.

Any suggestions, or tips? Any one ever cooked a ~19 lb brisket before?

I'm going to reheat it Saturday for a cookout, and add some Chickens, Beef Sausage links, a couple of fatties, and some Salmon to the smoker Saturday for everyone that is coming over Saturday afternoon.


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## fatback joe (Sep 6, 2007)

General rule is large briskets come off older cows, older cows equal tougher meat. That being said, no reason it won't come out just fine. Once you know how to cook a brisket, you know how to cook a brisket. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Do you wrap in foil when you are cooking? If not, this just might be a good one to do it on for a little extra help.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 6, 2007)

Yeah I normally wrap them in the morning, usually I catch them around 170, but sometimes I oversleep and they go a little longer.  

I'm trying to decide if I should wrap it before I go to sleep and give it some extra protection or not.  As big as this one is, I don't think it will be up to wrapping temp even after cooking all night. 

I was actually thinking about putting a pan under it to catch the juice, then in the morning just trowing it in the pan and wrapping it so it will cook in it's own juice.  I've never cooked one that way, but have had a few that were good done that way.


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## fatback joe (Sep 6, 2007)

I usually wrap around 170 as well.........I generally try to keep an eye on things and don't wrap until it goes through te plateau.....in my experience, by 170 it usually has.   I think wrapping before that is just going to speed up the cooking but not necessarily help in the tenderness department, but that is just my best (and uneducated) guess.   You don't need the extra protection as long as you keep your smoker temps under control.

It is a good idea to collect the juices to put back in the foil when you wrap.  If you should forget  or the sucker just isn't giving up the juices like you wanted, you might try a little beer in the foil..........or just keeping it in the pan like you mentioned.  I know several people who cook them from start to finish in a pan and swear by it.

I guess to get my 2 cents back down to 2 cents, I would recommend doing whatever you can to get some moisture back on the thing when you pan/foil, but would not bother with wrapping early.

What temp do you usually cook the thing to before you call it done?


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## gypsyseagod (Sep 6, 2007)

i usually do that and it comes out pretty good,but the main thing is low & slow. if it doesn't have much fat cap you could try smokyokie's searing method,that may retain more moisture.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 6, 2007)

I usually hit 200.    I've actually thought about taking it to 210-215 and pulling it apart so I can mix it with the juices better, but I really like sliced brisket better than pulled.  Though as thick as this thing is, they are going to be some big slices.


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## fatback joe (Sep 6, 2007)

I don't think the searing will help, but I won't bet my life on it either.   From what I have heard and read, searing a large piece of meat is done to add flavor and color, it doesn't help with the moisture retention, because the crust you create is not waterproof.      Searing smaller cuts helps with the moisture retention because the high heat forces the internal juice further into the meat, but those smaller cuts you generally sear and remove from the heat (think steaks).  The larger cuts (like the brisket) is going to still be cooking for a long time after the sear.

Not saying that you should not sear, but just saying that I don't believe it will help the moisture concern.


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## gypsyseagod (Sep 6, 2007)

true. i've never done it,just seared a chunk of brisket fat for pintos & that worked well.


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## fatback joe (Sep 6, 2007)

Yeah, I prefer sliced to pulled as well.  I usually stop the cooking at 195, sounds like we are in the same ball park.

Good luck with that big damn thing.


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## fatback joe (Sep 6, 2007)

That little line caused instant salivation. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	






Like with anything, don't take anyone's word for it when it comes to Qing, try it and see what you think.  I think in the world of Q/Smoking the only thing we all agree on is that this stuff tastes great.


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## squeezy (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree with the above.
Not sure when you are going to start ... but be prepared for going past noon!
Regarding the fat cap, I would just cover it with some bacon ... as it rules for flavor and moisture retention among other things!


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## fatback joe (Sep 6, 2007)

If you are very concerned with the time this thing might take, cut the sucker in half lengthwise so you are basically just cooking two 9lbers.  Won't help with the moisture worries, but it won't take near as long to cook.    Pull one off at 200 for slicing, pull the other later for pulling/shredding.    Then you don't even have to worry about the lack of a fat cap..........you can just think of it as two large flats instead of one big packer................but personally I hope you keep it all in once piece just so we can all find out how it turns out for you...........oh, and bacon never made anything taste bad.


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## bbq bubba (Sep 6, 2007)

18 1/2 lbs??? what dinosaur that come from??
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Your lookin at up to 24 hr. cook, maybe longer, might help if you remove the point from the flat and cook that later, or send it to me and i'll take care of it........
Good luck with that beast and keep us updated!!


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## ozark rt (Sep 6, 2007)

I like the way you think Bubba.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 6, 2007)

I'm not too worry about my time, just about if it will dry out more cooking that long to get the internal temps up.  I've got a tank and a half of propane so if the full tank cuts out I'll switch and go get it filled.

I don't think I want to try and cut it in half lengthwise, and after searching half of Northern Virgina for a whole brisket I'm not giving up any of if 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	









 so I guess I'll be cooking for a while.

I may have to take it off tomorrow and stick it in the oven to finish so the fiancee can watch it tomorrow afternoon and just cut it off when it's done. She refuses to go near the smoker.  I really hate to finish it that way (sounds like cheating) but you have to do what you have to do.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 6, 2007)

I've got some Jewish friends coming over for the BBQ, so the Bacon is out. I had thought about turkey bacon though, but I don't think it has enough fat to make a difference.


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## squeezy (Sep 6, 2007)

Never heard of Kosher bacon? ... me either LOL!
Perhaps you can scoop some last minute suet from a butcher near by??


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## smokyokie (Sep 6, 2007)

IMHO, if there's no fat cap at all, rub it well w/oil before you sear.  I generally smoke 2 hrs fat side up, then 1 hr fat side down  all done in a foi; pan, then flip back to fat side up and cover the pan w/ foil.  Toughness won't be a problem if you take your time to get to 195* because you'll break down the connective tissues, ie if you slice cross grain .  3 hrs of smoke exposure is usually plenty.


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## hawgheaven (Sep 6, 2007)

Whew... dang!!! Are you sure you don't have the whole cow there? Did you check for a pulse?!

I am rilly on board with SmokyOkie's searing method. The last two briskets I've done using his method... they were the best two briskets I've ever produced! 

As far as the size, bigger is better... right? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Just be prepared to hang around the smoker a little longer.


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## deejaydebi (Sep 6, 2007)

I think first I'd split it flat and point then I'd sear the point the SMokyOky way - but I haven't tried it yet just going by the reviews.

Does it look to be fatty in between the flat and point? 19 lber holy cow!


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## smokyokie (Sep 6, 2007)

Debi, it's just not as good if you don't have the fat in the middle during the smoke and the resting period.  That's why we do whole packer trims as opposed to flats and points.  That big hunk of fat in the middle is what gives it it's good flavor  (albeit artery clogging).


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## squeezy (Sep 6, 2007)

Got to go with SmokyOkie on that one .... gotta have the fat!


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## walking dude (Sep 6, 2007)

just curious.......how much per lb. did you pay for that monster?

and here i am worried bout doing a 10 lber




Wd


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## cascadedad (Sep 6, 2007)

I don't know, but if your gunna cook a big brisket like that, ya might as well get a big butt to go with it.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 6, 2007)

It has a decent amount of fat between, but not a lot. The fat cap is all the way across, just not very thick. After taking it out of the package I noticed that the whole thing is actually marbled a good bit for a brisket so I think it will be tender enough.

I put it on about 6:00, and have no where to be until 4:00 tomorrow afternoon, so I'm hoping for the best. Unfortunately since my only other grill right now is a Holland, I don't really have anything that I can sear it on (Don't even have a pan big enough to do it on the stove) so I'm just going to do it supper slow and see what I get. It's on the smoker with a good bit of rub to crust it up, and I've got a spray of Apple Juice, Sam Adams Oktoberfest, and EVOO ready to hit it good every hour. 

I'll wrap it in the morning (it probably won't hit 170 until late  morning, I've done 10 pounders overnight and they didn't hit it until about 6:00 am with them going on around 8:00).

Then I just made a batch of sauce/glaze that is basically sugar, salt, vinegar, and pepper (Sorry can't give out the recipe as long as the restaurant I stole it from is still open lol). I'll mop it with that, foil it, then take it out of the foil for the last hour and mop it again to get it to crust up good.

I'm also going to put a pan under it in about another 2 hours to catch all of the good juice.


It cost $3.12/lb. A little higher than I think it should have been, but not too bad. I did find one other store that had them, and they wanted 8.99 a pound.


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## walking dude (Sep 6, 2007)

9.00 A POUND??????    for a PACKER?

THEY on *****?????

good thing the miller high life beer truck driver doesn't know bout that

man........won't even say what i payed for mine.......

Wd


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## jeepdiver (Sep 6, 2007)

Yeah I think so. It was one of the fancy high dollar stores in the DC Suburbs, but I was getting desperate, though I'll never be that desperate.  People will just be happy with chicken, or can kiss my ass before I'll pay anything close to that.


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## walking dude (Sep 6, 2007)

1.48/lb here in iowa


Wd


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## squeezy (Sep 7, 2007)

Here in Ontario averages $3.99 lb. ...


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## bbq bubba (Sep 7, 2007)

Enough of this talk!!! (though it does sound good!) We want pic's


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## walking dude (Sep 7, 2007)

like flat iron steak.....flank steak.........even bottom round........when the stores found out how it was great for jerky making.....price went up


Wd


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## richtee (Sep 7, 2007)

The bacon thingie rules! I do almost all my pork loins that way. For some reason, they tend to be WAYYY lean up this-away.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

I've taken a few, and will take more in the morning and post then.  To lazy to upload them now.  Though it is beginning to look good.  The crust really hasn't formed yet, but I think that's because I'm spraying it regularly.  Think it will be looking good in the am.


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## gypsyseagod (Sep 7, 2007)

the pit has to be kosher too- i.e.- if ya ever cooked pork it's tainted- that ain't me- i saw that on hogan knows best.  it's true but i did mean it to be A funny- now 3.89 a lb ??? aww sheesh.... gotta miss texas on that 1.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Yeah I know that, but luckily they aren't that picky.  They aren't strict enough to worry about if pork has been on the grill, they just don't want to eat it, or have it cooked on their food.  The pork fatties are going on the bottom rack (though I hate to loose all of those good drippings)


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Well it's not 9:30 and it's been holding at 136 since I got up at 6:00.

Here are the pics I promised, with more to come later

The beast in the Kitchen sink with rub on it.







After about 2.5 hours






4 hours






and a couple at 13 hours












Well got to run now, the fridge died some time yesterday and I didn't notice it was warming up until this am.  Got to try and get someone over to save the stuff in it (It's all in the cooler on Ice now, got to check the damage in a little bit).  And since the freezer is on the blink too, I'm now adding another fatty, turkey breast, and some chicken breast to the smoke tomorrow.


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## squeezy (Sep 7, 2007)

Drat ... all I'm seeing is red x's ??

Update ... went back to email and was able to access all the pix from there. And now iditing this, they show up in the editor .... enuf to make you go HUH!


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## bbq bubba (Sep 7, 2007)

PIC'S???


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Are they not showing up?  There on my Pbase account, I've used it on other forums but not here before?


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## bbq bubba (Sep 7, 2007)

Can u see them here???


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok, trying to attach the small ones as attachments


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Yep, I see them fine. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Ok, added medium pics to Qview.  Do these show up?


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## zapper (Sep 7, 2007)

I got here too late to offer any advise (Not that I had any real quality advice to offer) But I would have and will say "GO FOR IT!"

The juice in the meat is already there, you are not going to get any juicier (with the exception maybe of injections) The trick is to keep plenty of the existing juices in the meat while you cook it. Ease off on the salts, well on smaller cuts this can help. Coat with an oil, again this will help on a smaller cut but it will also marginally affect your smoke ring. It won't make all that big of a difference on this big ole chunk of meat I don't think. Foil and pan are most likely gonna be the best tools at your disposal on a huge chunk like this.

I am glad that you went hole for a few reasons. Looks, pride and I also think that you get a better or juicer end product


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## smokyokie (Sep 7, 2007)

That's a problem I bemoan frequently.  Ever since pork becme "The Other White Meat",  They raise them in confinements and control their diets.  One trick I learned is to do bone in rib sections, kinda like BBribs before they cut the meat off.  I hardly ever do boneless loin anymore because it's so often tight and dry.  Stuffing helps, but doen't fix it totally.

I understand that Cargill is working on producing better marbled pork for those of us that understand the value of fat.


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## smokyokie (Sep 7, 2007)

That would be the culprit. Bark, or crust if you will isn't something we generally look for on a brisket bring as we slice it. Bark on pulled pork, on the other hand, or ribs for that matter is a necessity. Just curious, why do you wait so long to put a pan under it to catch the juices.

Just a little tip, when you separate the juice from the grease, put a couple TBS of the smoky grease in your beans. It really lights them up.

BTW, we usually se them for around $1#around summer holidays, $1.50 otherwise.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't know, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference, but I've always thought that with a pan under it, it would slow the smoke penetration down.  On smaller cuts, I do it sooner, just like it to get full force of the smoke under it until it gets up to temp.

Surprisingly enough, this thing hasn't release much juice at all since I started it.  The water pan didn't have much last night, and there isn't hardly anything in the foil pan.  Figure when it hits 170 and I foil it, I may see some then.

I like the crispy edge on my brisket even when it's sliced.  I'd guess you would get some of this if you sear it, so you wouldn't need the rub that way.  I may try that next time.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Back in MS and even the Panhandle of FL you can find them for $2.00/lb but I guess up here they just don't carry them much and charge for them.  I have a feeling if I went a little more into Southern VA instead of here around the DC burbs, I could find them cheaper.


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## smokyokie (Sep 7, 2007)

The bulk of the smoke deposition occurs on the top surface of the meat whether it's on a rack or in a pan.  If you want more smoke on the bottom, flip it over for an hour or so. 

Remember too that smoke ring is mostly for show.  The true smoke penetration occurs later in the cooking process, especially if you use a braising method.


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## walking dude (Sep 7, 2007)

wow....nice red x's........hehehe

i found that in email......you have to make sure you send messages using html


Wd


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## walking dude (Sep 7, 2007)

here in iowa........were we raise pigs by the acre full..........left and right coasters are buying their pork from here......cause we are starting to raise em with more marbling and fat caps.........they finally figured out, the pork is jucier that way........duh!

Wd


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Hum, I'm just posting them to the board, using the web not email


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## walking dude (Sep 7, 2007)

my bad........was reading squeezy's post when i replied

sorry


Wd


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Well 19 hours later, it looks like we are stuck on a 2nd plateau.  I got up at 6:00 this morning and it was at 135, stayed there until about 12:00, then hit 154 about an hour ago and has been there since then.  

It hasn't changed much since the last pics, so no more QView for now.


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## walking dude (Sep 7, 2007)

wow two plateaus.....bummer...

good info there.......thankx

will watch for that when i do my brisket here soon, makes up abit for planning meal time


Wd


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## smokyokie (Sep 7, 2007)

You could probably have thet thing cooked in 8-10 hrs if you cooked it @ 275* and not give up an ounce of tenderness.


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## jeepdiver (Sep 7, 2007)

Well it's now at 23:30 and at 158, so I went ahead and cut the heat up to 275. It's been at 215 this whole time, so it should be close to whatever it's going to do tender wise by now. 

I figured I was in for the long haul anyway, so I've been real carefull about not letting the temp creep up too much. Hopefully this will help it along and get it done. 

This has become a personal challange at this point to get this thing done and make it super tender.

Though one thing I've learned is the GOSM can got at least 24 hours on one bottle


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## heathrow (Sep 7, 2007)

So, if a brisket comes out tough after all of these instructions, is there a way to make it tender?


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## gypsyseagod (Sep 7, 2007)

so is it done yet ? i'm starving man... took my frozen 1/2 smoked skit out to that cause ya made me hungry again...... it's all yer fault... every time i open my fridge my place smells like a smokehouse....


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## Dutch (Sep 8, 2007)

Was there any particular reason for smoking this big boy at 215* instead of at a higher temp around 240-250* or Okieâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s method at bit higher at 275*?  Not slamming your method, just curious is all.


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## walking dude (Sep 8, 2007)

so.....if its a HUGE brisket cook it at a higher temp @ 275?

i realize the 225-250 target........but higher temp cook it faster and still be tender?


Wd


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## jeepdiver (Sep 8, 2007)

Honestly I'm not used to dealing with meat this big, and I've always done my other ones at 215.  They usually take 10-15 hours, which is perfect for putting them on the night before and then taking off the next morning (got to love a gas burner that holds it's temps).  I've never really had the need to do one at a higher temp, and I wasn't sure how it would work, but next time I think that's what I'm going to do.

Since I had to go meet some friends last night, I ended up pulling it at 170 (26 hours total time), wrapping it and sticking it in the oven which I had heated to 225 and cut it off, then just left it there.  I came home 4 hours latter and it was still at 150.  I didn't feel like fooling with it last night so I just stuck it in the fridge.

Just sliced it, and it's like butter.  The grain changed direction so many times, that it was almost impossible to keep cutting against it, but I don't think it matters, it's melting in my mouth cold, so I figure once I bring it back to temp it will fall apart before getting it from the plate to your mouth.


I'll get some Qview up tonight, or tomorrow, I've got to go get the rest of the stuff ready to go, but didn't want to leave everyone hanging, so 
I wanted to post an update.


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## smokyokie (Sep 10, 2007)

If it's tough after reaching 195*, it's only because it's dried out.  If it's tough after all this, chop it.


Br careful not to slam anybody Dutch.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			










Thickness of the cut is what matters as far as initial cooking time, and a large PT isn't that much thicker than a smaller one.  It's mostly a matter of length.




			
				JeepDiver;86122 said:
			
		

> Since I had to go meet some friends last night, I ended up pulling it at 170 (26 hours total time), wrapping it and sticking it in the oven which I had heated to 225 and cut it off, then just left it there. I came home 4 hours latter and it was still at 150.
> Just sliced it, and it's like butter. The grain changed direction so many times, that it was almost impossible to keep cutting against it, but I don't think it matters, it's melting in my mouth cold, so I figure once I bring it back to temp it will fall apart before getting it from the plate to your mouth.
> 
> That's a long time to leave meat in a unheated oven.  Lucky it didn't drop any more in temp, It might've started to grow nasties.
> ...


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## jeepdiver (Sep 11, 2007)

I had left a note for my Fiancee to cut it up when it reached 160, and when she went to bed an hour before I came home it was still at 170. The temp gauge was right (according to the water test), and there were spots in the middle that was medium at best, but it was still super tender. When they had came home about 2 hours after I left it was at 165, then climbed to 175 and dropped 5 more degrees before they went to sleep.

I guess it was just a big enough piece of meat to keep climbing.

This piece of meat had a mind of it's own.


Sorry I haven't got the QView up yet. I didn't realize it, but my fiancee had flown a lot of my friends in (I kept wondering why she wanted me to cook so much food when only a few people were coming) and surprised me with them being their for the BBQ, and then a Limo showed up around 7:00 for my Bachelor party (we are flying to St Lucia in 2 weeks for the wedding with just ourselves) that I didn't know anything about. I'm still recovering so hopefully I can get pictures posted up tonight (of the Q, there better not be any of the party).

While I think she was being nice, one of my future wife's friends that went to school in Texas said it was one of the best briskets she has ever had, so it must not have been to bad.


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## squeezy (Sep 11, 2007)

Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials JeepDiver!


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