# Prosciutto attempt #1



## cdn offroader (Apr 27, 2014)

With the country ham aging nicely and two brined hams successfully completed, I started work on a prosciutto. The nice part about not being of Italian decent is that I didn't feel bad about adding cure #2 to the recipe. Anyways, after resting in salt and cure, regular rotations, and 3 reapplications of salt and cure, it was rinsed and began aging this weekend. Original weight, 22lbs.













IMG_2246.JPG



__ cdn offroader
__ Apr 27, 2014






Pressed with a 25lb weight throughout to give it a nice flat look....













IMG_2263.JPG



__ cdn offroader
__ Apr 27, 2014


















IMG_2265.JPG



__ cdn offroader
__ Apr 27, 2014






Update... After a week of airdrying, brought the prosciutto out of hiding and gave it an application of lard and BP. Weight down to 19lbs. Only 11months 3 weeks to go...













IMG_2272.JPG



__ cdn offroader
__ May 4, 2014


















IMG_2273.JPG



__ cdn offroader
__ May 4, 2014






And then back to the cellar to hang out













IMG_2276.JPG



__ cdn offroader
__ May 4, 2014






almost 5 months in...













IMG_2748.JPG



__ cdn offroader
__ Sep 16, 2014


----------



## mdboatbum (Apr 27, 2014)

Looks like a great start!! I've always wanted to try that. How does prosciutto differ from country ham? Just the pressing and longer aging? Or is there a different technique altogether?

Good luck and I hope it turns out well!


----------



## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm all in for this one! It's going to be fantastic!


----------



## daveomak (Apr 27, 2014)

:popcorn


----------



## brooksy (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm gonna watch this one love prosciutto!


----------



## cdn offroader (Apr 27, 2014)

Mdboatbum said:


> Looks like a great start!! I've always wanted to try that. How does prosciutto differ from country ham? Just the pressing and longer aging? Or is there a different technique altogether?
> 
> Good luck and I hope it turns out well!


I think mostly the pressing, and the ham generally uses sugar in the cure as well. The prosciutto was just salt and cure #2( which is not part of an authentic recipe). Gonna let it air dry for about a week, and then give it a lard, BP rub on the exposed ends.


----------



## mneeley490 (Apr 27, 2014)

Nice start! Do you have a curing chamber or somewhere secure to hang it?


----------



## cdn offroader (Apr 28, 2014)

mneeley490 said:


> Nice start! Do you have a curing chamber or somewhere secure to hang it?



I have a fridge with a water bowl for my curing chamber, it has worked for bresaolla and lonzino so far. The basement keeps a pretty consistent temp and humidity as well, so initially it starts in the basement, then moving to the fridge for the long haul. Planning on getting a proper curing chamber set up over the spring/summer as soon as i can find a double door cooler.


----------



## atomicsmoke (May 1, 2014)

Have you used cure#2 in all your dried meats or have you tried salt-only cures as well?


----------



## foamheart (May 1, 2014)




----------



## cdn offroader (May 1, 2014)

atomicsmoke said:


> Have you used cure#2 in all your dried meats or have you tried salt-only cures as well?



So far have used cure on all of them. I still new at this, so playing it safe. I may delve into the salt only once I get the curing chamber built and can control the humidity and temp more precisely.


----------



## daveomak (May 1, 2014)

CDN offroader said:


> atomicsmoke said:
> 
> 
> > Have you used cure#2 in all your dried meats or have you tried salt-only cures as well?
> ...



CDN, morning.....   Remember, you only have to get botulism once, to ruin your day.....   :jaw-dropping:


----------



## atomicsmoke (May 1, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> CDN, morning.....   Remember, you only have to get botulism once, to ruin your day.....   :jaw-dropping:


I am sure this topic has been talked to death but I need to ask a few questions: 

1. Why would the botulism toxin show up on a heavily salted whole muscle dried in open space (lots of oxygen)? It wouldn't: such environment is just as hospitable to spores turning into bacteria as is low temps.

2. Are there documented cases in North America other than Alaska, where people got sick from eating botulism infested cured or smoked meats (whole, not ground and not uneviscerated fish)?

I am not trying to minimize the seriousness of botulism poisoning (it is more toxic than cyanide - for a 160lb adult lethal dose is ~70ng), but we are trying to inhibit generation of said toxin in situations where it would not be present anyway. 

3. Won't you agree that the meat processing industry got lazy and would cut corners knowing that adding nitrites/nitrates to meat will mask unsafe food handling practices?


Got nothing against nitrites/nitrates in cold smoked or dried meat (It turns out they are actually good for your circulatory system - blue pill is an example), I eat a lot of lettuce, celery, spinach and radishes;
 but I don't want all my dried meats to taste like ham.

I tried Bresaola and lomo both with and without cures. Yes, I used a lot more salt for the no- cure version (rinsed, soaked after curing so it wasn't too salty). There is a major difference in taste, appearance and texture.


----------



## daveomak (May 1, 2014)

atomicsmoke, afternoon.....  Looks like you answered all your questions........

Anywhoooooo......   Are you saying, it is not possible for botulism to multiply in meat, during the curing process while the moisture levels Aw and salt levels have not been achieved.......   ie. the 2-12 months hanging, waiting for equilibrium to be achieved, in a temperature above 50 degrees F...
AND....   folks attempting to make those "unique" meats do not have the skills professionals do.....   nor do they have the "sanitary" environment professionals do....  and as a generality, many types of meats are mixed in the home, without sanitizing between home projects and cross contamination can occur.....   

using cure is such a simple, effective step in the process, it should not be overlooked and should be considered mandatory...   

NOTE.....   On this forum, there are no "FOOD POLICE" .......  some of us take food poisoning serious and try and pass on some friendly advice others may not be aware of.....   we try to accompany  points of food safety with articles and documentation so others can learn.....

I feel I would be remiss, when noticing others want to attempt "Old World" recipes, that "MAY" pose a serious health risk, if I did not take notice and provide some sort warning......

You obviously has used "old world" methods.....   PLEASE IGNORE MY WARNINGS ABOUT FOOD SAFETY....


----------



## atomicsmoke (May 1, 2014)

Dave,

I respect and appreciate your and other members' advice. I am only asking some questions (one was kind of rethorical I apologize). I am not trying to make a "unique" meat - only looking for authentic taste and feel.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.


----------



## madman mike (May 1, 2014)

back to topic.


----------



## daveomak (May 1, 2014)

Mike, afternoon...... 

 What foods have been commonly associated with Clostridium botulinum?

C. botulinum is present in water and soil, so potentially any food that comes into contact with such vectors is a potential hazard. Home canned products, however, especially low acid food products, are attributed to most cases of foodborne botulism. Foods commonly associated with botulism are canned asparagus, green beans, garlic in oil, corn, soups, ripe olives, tuna fish, sausage, luncheon meats, fermented meats, salad dressings, and smoked fish. Spores have also been found on the surfaces of vegetables and fruits. Infant botulism has been linked to the ingestion of C. botulinum spores in honey, corn syrup, and other foods.


http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodScienceResearch/SafePracticesforFoodProcesses/ucm099239.htm
4.4. Atmosphere 

Clostridium botulinum is an anaerobic organism and is sensitive to oxygen. Sensitivity to redox potential (Eh) is not as pronounced. Therefore, growth and toxin production may occur at high Eh if compounds other than O2 are used to establish a positive Eh (Lund and Peck 2000). Due to the intolerance to O2, most attention has been paid to vacuum- and CO2-packaged products. Many studies have documented that O2 removal enhances toxin formation (Eklund 1992), but several studies have found that toxicity may also occur with oxygen present (Table III-4). Thus, Huss and others (1980) found that air-packaging delayed toxin formation by C. botulinum type E in hot-smoked herring stored at 15 °C (59 °F), compared to vacuum-packaging if the fish were handled under aseptic conditions and C. botulinum type E was able to grow and form toxin under 100% O2 atmosphere. Kautter (1964) also reported that toxin could be produced without packaging. In fish contaminated with aerobic spoilage bacteria, toxicity occurred after 4 - 5 d when vacuum-packed, compared to 5-6 d when air-packed (Table III-4). Thatcher and others (1962) reported that hot-smoked fish packed in plastic wrappers had caused cases of botulism. They, therefore, investigated the influence of atmosphere on toxin formation in fish surface inoculated with 103 spores / g. After 8 d at 30 °C (90 °F), both samples incubated under anaerobic and aerobic conditions were toxic. In a study of spoilage and botulinum toxin formation in cold-smoked trout, Dufresne and others (2000) found that at 8 °C (46 °F), fish packed in high O2-transmission films became toxic before fish packed in low O2-transmitting films (Table III-5 and 6). As implied in these studies, although there is no doubt that vacuum-packing and CO2-packing may enhance toxin formation, aerobic packaging or the inclusion of O2 in modified atmosphere packaging (MAP) cannot be relied upon as a safeguard. ACMSF (1992), an advisory body reporting to the Department of Health under the UK-Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries, and Food (UK-MAFF), concluded on the safety hazards of C. botulinum in vacuum-packed foods:* "It is now recognized that the growth of C. botulinum in foods does not depend on the total exclusion of oxygen, nor does the inclusion of oxygen as a packaging gas ensure that growth of C. botulinum is prevented. Anaerobic conditions may occur in microenvironments in foods that are not vacuum- or modified-atmosphere packaged. For example, in the flesh of fish, conditions which are favorable to toxin production can exist in air-packaged fish as well as in vacuum- or modified atmosphere-packaged fish."
*
In cold-smoked fish, aerobic conditions lead to faster spoilage than under vacuum- or MA-packaging (Table III-5). Under aerobic conditions pseudomonads, yeast, and some lactic acid bacteria develop, whereas anoxic packaging conditions result in development of a lactic acid bacteria flora with a minor component of gram-negative bacteria. Typically, shelf life is reduced by a factor of 1.5 to 2 by aerobic storage as compared to vacuum-packed storage (Table III-6).

The United States requires that vacuum-packed, cold-smoked fish contain 3.5% NaCl (water phase) or 3.0% if combined with 200 ppm nitrite. Only 2.5% NaCl is required of aerobically packed fish, which spoil more rapidly. No clear definition of an aerobic pack exists. The more rapid spoilage not the presence of oxygen is relied upon as a safeguard against C. botulinum. Recent data by Dufresne and others (2000) showed that in aerobic-packaged, cold-smoked trout (with 1.7% WPS) stored at 8 °C (46 °F), toxin formation occurred more rapidly when packaged under high O2-transmission than under low O2-transmission. The data emphasize that although spoilage did occur more rapidly under the highest O2 transmitting film (10,000 cc / m2 / d / atm @24 °C, 0% RH),* toxin formation also occurred more rapidly, and oxygen was no safeguard against botulinum toxin formation.
*


----------



## madman mike (May 1, 2014)

back to topic. wont let me delete.


----------



## foamheart (May 1, 2014)

Here's the story-of-my-life. Traveling down the road doing 75 Mph, and get passed by ten cars doing 90, with 10 behind me which are approaching me doing the same. A cop will pull me over and write a ticket for 75 because he figures I wasn't doing 90 for a reason.

If only one person gets botulism its not going to be due to my lack effort. Oh and BTW you'll note the infant rate for it is like 65% of the known cases. Infants have no defense, its also why there is usually HUGE warnings on honey because it is a natural source of botulism.

I don't know a single person who's ever contracted the disease and I hope to keep it that way.


----------



## madman mike (May 1, 2014)

back to original topic. wont let me delete.


----------



## foamheart (May 1, 2014)

madman mike said:


> On average every year 300 people are inured and 55 die from lightning strikes.


But what are the odds of that guy who was struck by lightning 3 times and living? Just because it doesn't happen every day, it still happens.

That's like saying I don't need the polio shot because if everyone else gets it, no one can give it to me. If you can simply prevent it, why would you not?

How to Prevent Botulism in Sausages??

_*"The answer lies in the use of Nitrates/nitrites. When present, they prevent the transformation of C. botulinum spores into toxins. It is almost like applying a vaccine to eliminate a disease. By curing meats with nitrites, we protect ourselves from possibly contracting a deadly disease. Nitrites are cheap, commonly available, and completely safe in amounts recommended by the Food and Drug Administration. *_

_*So why not use them? *_

_*All commercial plants do. Nitrites are needed only when smoking meats or making fermented sausages. You don’t need nitrites when barbecuing or grilling, as the temperatures are high enough to inhibit the development of botulinum spores into toxins."*_


----------



## madman mike (May 2, 2014)

Not sure the point Foam. Your last post proves my point in that the way that we already are handling our meat creates the incredibly low risk of botulism.

I am not saying it doesn't happen. the numbers I posted proves it does happen, be it in incredibly low numbers.

He used cure, he used salt, he held at proper temps and he wasn't making sausage without cure. There should not be an issue with botulism in his product.

Nitrites and nitrates are not just to prevent botulism, they are also used to prevent spoilage and other nasty bacteria. Listeria has been an issue even in cured meats, most often sliced or further processed foods. It is beneficial that nitrite is more or less the only salt that will kill botulism. Its not even the spores that are the issue, it is the waste they produce, they poo some nasty toxins.

so, I reiterate, botulism prevention is basically taken care of through proper food handling procedure and use of ingredients when working to prevent salmonella, listeria and E.coli. Take care of those bad boys and the rest should not be an issue either.

to use your vaccine simile, if the Polio vaccine I take is also effective on measles then I really don't need to worry to much about measles as long as I have taken measures to prevent Polio.


----------



## beeflover (May 2, 2014)




----------



## cdn offroader (May 4, 2014)

Updated original post to keep all info in one spot and avoid the


----------



## blkstallionbbq (Jun 30, 2014)

I would like to try to make this. I have heard many things about what temps to hang prosciutto in. I've heard no more than 30 or 40 degrees. I have also heard that in Italy, it is cured at room temperature. Does anyone know what works best? I live in Iowa and I do not have a temperature controlled room that can keep temps low. I have a basement, but that is around 65 degrees at the coolest.


----------



## daveomak (Jun 30, 2014)

BlkStallionBBQ said:


> I would like to try to make this. I have heard many things about what temps to hang prosciutto in. I've heard no more than 30 or 40 degrees. I have also heard that in Italy, it is cured at room temperature. Does anyone know what works best? I live in Iowa and I do not have a temperature controlled room that can keep temps low. I have a basement, but that is around 65 degrees at the coolest.






A good place to start.....


----------



## blkstallionbbq (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion, but is there a general guideline I could follow without having to buy the book to find out?


----------



## daveomak (Jul 1, 2014)

BlkStallionBBQ said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but is there a general guideline I could follow without having to buy the book to find out?




No.... there is no "general guideline".....   Temp control and humidity control along with the correct amount of salt and cure #2 are necessary to prevent the growth of food borne pathogens.......    I'm suggesting you learn how to process meats correctly....  Some food borne pathogens are deadly.....


----------



## blkstallionbbq (Jul 1, 2014)

Just thought I'd ask. I intend to educate myself on how to process meats. I just didn't know if there were some quick tips to get me started.


----------



## daveomak (Jul 1, 2014)

BlkStallionBBQ said:


> Just thought I'd ask. I intend to educate myself on how to process meats. I just didn't know if there were some quick tips to get me started.




Dry curing, like prosciutto, take months.... some meat recipes take over a year to properly cure meats....   Meats that use cure #2, and cured for months are not intended for cooking....   slice it off and eat it....    Strict adherence to the recipes are pretty much mandatory to end up with a safe product.....   
Once you have mastered that art, you will be in "HOG HEAVEN" consuming a delicacy originating in the "Olde World".....  

I wish I had the equipment to make it, and many of the other aged meat products....    I had better get my s#@t together and get started....  Soon, if I start the project, I may not be hear to taste it....   Kind of like buying green bananas....  

Dave


----------



## atomicsmoke (Jul 1, 2014)

BlkStallionBBQ said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but is there a general guideline I could follow without having to buy the book to find out?



General guideline temp 10C and RH 75%. But as Dave said: you need to know your sh|t before starting this project.


----------



## atomicsmoke (Jul 1, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> Dry curing, like prosciutto, take months.... some meat recipes take over a year to properly cure meats....   Meats that use cure #2 .....
> Once you have mastered that art, you will be in "HOG HEAVEN" consuming a delicacy originating in the "Olde World".....



Cure#2 and " old world" don't belong in the same sentence. 

Prosciutto cured with nitrites/nitrates taste like ham. I like ham too but is not prosciutto.


----------



## daveomak (Jul 1, 2014)

atomicsmoke said:


> Cure#2 and " old world" don't belong in the same sentence.
> 
> Prosciutto cured with nitrites/nitrates taste like ham. I like ham too but is not prosciutto.
> 
> ...


----------



## atomicsmoke (Jul 1, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> atomicsmoke said:
> 
> 
> > Cure#2 and " old world" don't belong in the same sentence.
> ...


----------



## daveomak (Jul 1, 2014)

Excerpt from Wedliny-Domowe...   I guess some Italian prosciutto makers use nitrite......

The most popular Italian hams (prosciuttos in Italian) are: Prosciutto di Parma, Prosciutto di San Danelle, Prosciutto di Modena, Prosciutto di Carpegna, Prosciutto di Norcia, Prosciutto Toscano and Prosciutto Veneto Berico-Euganeo.

Then there is Prosciutto Cotto which is Italian cooked ham. Cooked hams are easier to produce and every country makes their own.

Without a doubt the hardest product to make at home will be European dry cured hams due to their long curing and maturing times. This will require climate controlled drying chambers and a significant time investment. Another factor which is beyond our control is the meat quality. All great Spanish and Italian hams are produced from pigs that graze freely on a pasture and their diet is supplemented by natural foods only. No chemicals or antibiotics are permitted.

The manufacture of dry products such as hams, shoulders, butts or loins generally follows these steps:
•Meat selection, cutting and trimming.
•Salting/Curing/Overhauling.
•Resting/Equalizing.
•Drying and smoking (smoking is optional).

1. Meat selection. Dry hams are usually made from whole legs. It must be remembered that pork pork should be either certified free of Trichinosis or treated according to the USDA specifications.

2. Curing. In the past when meats had to be kept without refrigeration the curing times were longer. For example the standard curing time for large pieces as ham and shoulders was about 3 days per pound and 2 days for small pieces like bacon. Even then, those curing times would be shortened by 1/3 when a product would be consumed sooner.

A mixture of salt and nitrite is applied to the surface, then more salt is added on top and the meat is left top cure. A lot of salt is added as at this initial stage, this is the only protection against the growth of spoilage and pathogenic bacteria. Keep in mind that these products are not cooked and this is why more salt is needed. Since dry curing draws out moisture, it reduces ham weight by at least 18% - usually 20 to 25%; this results in a more concentrated ham flavor.

Overhauling. In the first days of curing, the salt rapidly extracts moisture from the meat. Some of the salt is absorbed by the meat, but some salt dissolves in the newly created liquid and drains off. This resulting liquid is not needed and is removed by storing hams in containers that have holes at the bottom or laying hams on slanted tables. To continue the curing process, more mixture must be added. In addition when many meat cuts are cured together, some pieces may press against each other, preventing the cure from penetrating the meat. Overhauling which is basically re-arranging the order of cured meat, takes care of the problem. 

3. Equalizing/Resting. Hams are rinsed with tap water and any residual salt is brushed off from the surface. Then they are hung or placed on the shelf for salt equalization. This step takes 1-2 months depending on the size of the ham and other factors. The humidity is decreased as the drying continues. This step resembles drying fermented sausages. Due to the accumulation of salt inside, hams are bacteriologically more stable and will become more stable due to the continuous evaporation of moisture. Salt diffuses to all areas of the product and drying continues.

Equalizing and resting is essential for:
•Development of a proper color.
•Development of flavor. The flavor should depend on the natural flavor of the meat itself and not on adding a variety of spices. The aroma of spices will not last for six months or longer and those are the times needed to make those products. The final flavor is the result of naturally occurring reactions inside of the meat and fats as well.

4. Drying/Smoking is usually performed at 54-76° F (12-24° C) and every manufacturer has his own method, temperature range, humidity and air speed control. For products made at home, staying below 59° F (15° C) is the recommended setting as at this and higher temperatures pathogenic Staphylococcus aureus starts to grow faster.

Cold smoke (


----------



## daveomak (Jul 1, 2014)

It is interesting how using nitrite in curing hams, the percent salt needs to be 4% or greater and a ham without nitrite needs to exceed 10% salt...  

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title9-vol2/pdf/CFR-2011-title9-vol2-sec319-106.pdf


----------



## atomicsmoke (Jul 1, 2014)

Excerpt from Wedliny-Domowe... I guess some Italian prosciutto makers use nitrite......
_----------
Don't know ...it could be for the north  american market - to beat some import barriers and allow for a shorter dry time (better price).

The ones I buy have only two ingredients: salt and pork.


----------



## daveomak (Jul 1, 2014)

Agreed.......


----------



## atomicsmoke (Jul 1, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> It is interesting how using nitrite in curing hams, the percent salt needs to be 4% or greater and a ham without nitrite needs to exceed 10% salt...
> 
> http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title9-vol2/pdf/CFR-2011-title9-vol2-sec319-106.pdf



That goes without saying. I burry my meats in kosher salt before drying. If I went for a wet "cure" I would go with 15% salt solution. They need the soaking stage after salting.


----------



## m-fine (Jul 1, 2014)

Pass the popcorn. 

IMHO you can't make old world prociutto starting with standard North American pork to begin with. Adding cure #2 is going to make a uniquely new world product, not anything remotely comparable to San Danelle. 

If you want to make old world prosciutto, and you have the ability to raise a feed a pig to European standards, this would be the forum to learn how to make pulled pork out of the shoulders but definitely the wrong place on the web to learn how to cure the hams.


----------



## cdn offroader (Jul 1, 2014)

I'll have to apologize for mislabelling the post...

could a moderator change the title of the thread to "pressed, salted ham of no particular style or regional affiliation attempt #1"

thank you...


----------



## madman mike (Jul 3, 2014)

CDN offroader said:


> I'll have to apologize for mislabelling the post...
> 
> could a moderator change the title of the thread to "pressed, salted ham of no particular style or regional affiliation attempt #1"
> 
> thank you...


hahahahahahaha


----------



## atomicsmoke (Sep 14, 2014)

CDN offroader,


How is that prosciutto coming along?


----------



## cdn offroader (Sep 14, 2014)

Coming along nicely from the look of things. Nice white mold growing, smells good, good color. I'll try and get a pic when I go down to check on the salamis and chourico.


----------



## atomicsmoke (Sep 14, 2014)

Have you used mold culture or is just from good airborne spores?

Looking forward to pics.


----------



## cdn offroader (Sep 16, 2014)

Gave it a little spray of mold 600. It was growing white mold before, but i had wiped it off with vinegar. Gave it the spray to be on the safe side. After seeing some pics recently of a famous salami shop in New York City showing pics of their salamis covered in white/green/black/tan molds, I am less concerned than I was about it. Anyways, original post updated with a newer pic.


----------



## cdn offroader (Oct 8, 2014)

So, I must sadly report that the prosciutto started to seperate along the bone and muscle, allowing blue/black mold to grow in where i couldn't inspect/clean it. It didn't get very deep(lbout half an inch) but I decided to cut my losses before it got out of hand and ruined completely. I cut well around the molded bit, deboned and threw on the smoker, ending up with an oversalted ham. Forgot to do a desalination. Probably end up using it in pea soups over the winter. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Anyways, not 100%sure what the problem was. Temp/humidity was ok, exposed ends had been larded, not sure if they had to be relarded at some point? O well, I'll read up some more, and give it another shot later on.


----------



## dirtsailor2003 (Oct 8, 2014)

Bummer! I was looking forward to the end product...


----------



## atomicsmoke (Oct 8, 2014)

That sucks. I was pretty sure you would be out of the woods by now.

Sorry to hear this.


----------



## ericf517 (Nov 4, 2014)

That does really suck to hear man.  I was looking forward to seeing how this turned out since I have been thinking of trying out some old world stuff (being Italian and all).  Gramps was the homemade guy, from wine, salami, and grapa.


----------



## ericf517 (Nov 4, 2014)

Also if you are looking for a guy place to pick up some pork and it will work out there is a guy here in MI if you are around the area, or can get it shipped.  

Bakers Green Acres

http://bakersgreenacres.com/?page_id=15#Farmtag


----------



## atomicsmoke (Nov 4, 2014)

EricF517 said:


> Also if you are looking for a guy place to pick up some pork and it will work out there is a guy here in MI if you are around the area, or can get it shipped.
> 
> Bakers Green Acres
> http://bakersgreenacres.com/?page_id=15#Farmtag



Mangalitsa hog....yum.


----------



## ericf517 (Nov 4, 2014)

Seems like he is doing it right as well.  Poor guy has been fighting the state since they are trying to declare his pigs feral.   Been an ongoing issue for the poor guy for years.


----------



## foamheart (Nov 4, 2014)

EricF517 said:


> Seems like he is doing it right as well.  Poor guy has been fighting the state since they are trying to declare his pigs feral.   Been an ongoing issue for the poor guy for years.


He should let them, then sell hog hunts and make more money! LOL you get a happy cleaned and dresed hog to take home.


----------



## smokin monkey (Nov 4, 2014)

Hi that's looking good!  Will keep an eye on this thread!

Smokin Monkey :38:


----------

