# The history of the AMNPS and why you need one.



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

Todd Johnson owner of A-MAZE-N is a long time member. Several years ago he had a gen 1 MES. Todd observed 2 problems with the design. You have to reload chips every 30-40 minutes, a PITA, over a 16-20 hour cook, and the unit made no smoke at temps lower than 180°F. No way to cold smoke meat or cheese. Enter the first maze design that burned wood dust. It gave 12+ hours of thin blue smoke, solving the MES flaws. A new issue arose. The dust was great with the MES off, for cold smoking, but didn't work at 225°+. Some time and testing resulted in the redesigned second Maze, the AMNPS ( A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker). This design burned dust for cold smoking, no heat generated, and could burn wood pellets that would generate, 12+ hours of smoke at any temp the MES will produce. Brilliant! As the word got out and sales grew, guys with the gen 2 and other brands of smokers wanted the convenience of the AMNPS. A new problem...The AMNPS needs a good supply of air to stay lit. It worked in the gen 1 MES but not in the brand new MES gen 2 or Gas smokers. The design of the gen 2 did not let enough air get to the pellets and propane burners consume most of the available oxygen leaving nothing for the pellets to burn. Todd went to work on the problem and in short order introduced the AMNTS (A-MAZE-N Tube Smoker). The tube made smoke in pretty much any smoker out there.
The AMNPS Maze does not burn chips. They can't be packed tightly enough for a continuous burn.

Todd is a super friendly guy and his customer service is second to none! Give him a call to discuss the MES you have. Find what product will work best in your smoker.
Masterbuilt never corrected the flaws in successive MES designs. Their fix was to create their Cold Smoke Attachment. An Expensive add-on that has not been getting great reviews around here. As a long time MES owner, I can tell you...While feeding chips for a few hours smoking chicken or ribs is no big deal...You are not going to enjoy staying up 16 hours, overnight or in the rain, snow or heavy wind, feeding Chips to your MES every 30 minutes. Since I got my AMNPS, the MES is TRULY, set and forget and I get plenty of sleep smoking an overnight Brisket or Pork Butt...JJ


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## ab canuck (Sep 28, 2018)

Necessity is the mother of invention, And a big Thx to Todd. I use them often although I don't have an MES. They are a great tool for us. Thx for the post of the history JJ,


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## phatbac (Sep 28, 2018)

I agree with canuck, you can find greats uses for AMNPS other than MES! i use mine with a WSM and a weber kettle. its a great smoking tool and for the price everyone should have one in their lineup!

Happy Smoking,
phatbac (Aaron)


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## ravenclan (Sep 28, 2018)

i have been putting it off on getting one and have seen all the great reviews from all the members. i have done the cold smoking but i really need this to step up the smoke for cheese. Now i just have to talk to the boss, to talk her into me getting one!


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## Misplaced Nebraskan (Sep 28, 2018)

Wanting to get into cold smoking and need to get on ordering one of theses... Since I already have a pellet pooper, I guess the tube would be the way to go?  Thanks for the post 

 chef jimmyj


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## phatbac (Sep 28, 2018)

ravenclan said:


> i have been putting it off on getting one and have seen all the great reviews from all the members. i have done the cold smoking but i really need this to step up the smoke for cheese. Now i just have to talk to the boss, to talk her into me getting one!



You gotta talk your wife into a $25 purchase? I got mine for a bday gift.

Happy Smoking,
phatbac (Aaron)


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## ravenclan (Sep 28, 2018)

phatbac said:


> You gotta talk your wife into a $25 purchase? I got mine for a bday gift.
> 
> Happy Smoking,
> phatbac (Aaron)



With all of my smokers and grills and "tools" and buying wood,pellets,wood chips and other things for cooking and smoking, and i could/will buy other things, she kind of keeps me at bay but in a good way.


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## GaryHibbert (Sep 28, 2018)

Good post JJ.  Since I got my AMNPS several years ago I don't think I've burned 2 trays of chips.
Gary


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## kelbro (Sep 28, 2018)

I have a WSM. Which AM would I buy to use up the tiny chips and chunks and dust that's always left over in the bottom of my smoker wood bags?


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## chef jimmyj (Sep 28, 2018)

kelbro said:


> I have a WSM. Which AM would I buy to use up the tiny chips and chunks and dust that's always left over in the bottom of my smoker wood bags?



I'm not sure if any unit will work but the better breathing Telescoping Tube would be the best bet...JJ


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## Hauser (Oct 6, 2018)

Great post! Can anyone recommend a good brand of 100% hickory pellets that work well in the AMNPS/TS? I've had good success with BBQers Delight but they're not always easy to find here in Toronto!


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## cmayna (Oct 6, 2018)

How about Amaze-N's hickory pellets ?  The only brand I use.


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## SonnyE (Oct 11, 2018)

Hauser said:


> Great post! Can anyone recommend a good brand of 100% hickory pellets that work well in the AMNPS/TS? I've had good success with BBQers Delight but they're not always easy to find here in Toronto!


 
There is a problem with that figure, 100%.
How do you know?
And more importantly, the filler woods are more for binding the mixture together without using other things.

Nobody watches the pellet mills to assure they are doing what they claim.

But since the AMNPS tray can also burn dust, or in my case, small chips/curls, I took a chunk of 4X4 oak and made my own Oak fuel to use in my AMNPS, with my Jointer. Collected in my cleaned shop vacuum.
Looks like this.
Which is buried in a thread I started about pellets.

Anymore, I like to put down enough pellets to act as a "fuze" to keep the lane burning, (~1/2) and add over that the chips sold as 100% ______ wood. So making my chances more assured that whatever is mixed in gets diluted by wood I believe to be more genuine.
But honestly, I still wonder if it is worth the effort.

But making your own fuel is pretty much the only *Pure* solution I know of.


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 11, 2018)

It is a sad truth that there is no regulation of the pellet manufactures. The Truth in Advertising laws, however, make sure that 100% Flavor Wood, is all the type of wood on the label, maple, cherry, hickory, etc. This is incontrast to 100% HARDWOOD, which can be a blend of flavor wood and other, usually Alder or Oak. Fortunately, there is no need for artificial binders in wood pellets. Plant and, especially, wood cell walls contain Lignin. This abundant polymer provides rigidity, along with Cellulose, in the cell walls. When the wood dust is heated, the Lignin partially liquifies. As the hot wood dust is forced, under extreme pressure, though the small diameter nozzle, the Lignin glues the wood dust together forming a cylinder that's broken into pellet lengths and cooled. When completely cool the Lignin hardens and sets firm. Additionally, different components of wood breakdown, vaporize and burn at different rates. This is the reason lower burning temps make smoke and hot high temp fires burn clean. Lignin is one of the last components to breakdown and burn. This results in the Cherry Red Glow of pellets and embers. A-MAZE-N is still my favorite source and Todd runs frequent Specials and Discounts. Another  reputable source for 100% Hickory Pellets is Cookinpellets.com. Not the cheapest, but a favorite of pelletheads. They are available factory direct or on Amazon...JJ


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## zwiller (Oct 11, 2018)

I order mine from Todd and signed up for the emails.  I get a monthly email with discount code and order enough to hit $50 for free shipping.  No other way I'd go.  Been meaning to talk to him abut a patent attorney since I see lots "clones" popping up...


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 11, 2018)

I do know Todd holds patents on all his stuff but I don't know if that is the entire concept of pellets in a maze or tube, or just the shape and design. Sucks that triangle tubes and hexagonal tubes, among others, are being made...JJ


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## mike243 (Oct 12, 2018)

I think i just seen 1 of the oval tubes at Walmart with their name on it


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## zwiller (Oct 12, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> I do know Todd holds patents on all his stuff but I don't know if that is the entire concept of pellets in a maze or tube, or just the shape and design. Sucks that triangle tubes and hexagonal tubes, among others, are being made...JJ



I would hope his patent attorney covered all the angles, especially like you said: concept.  Hard to imagine that would be missed.  Might be time for him to check in with his attorney and send some C&D letters or maybe they are just waiting for the right moment to engage.


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## SonnyE (Oct 12, 2018)

zwiller said:


> I would hope his patent attorney covered all the angles, especially like you said: concept.  Hard to imagine that would be missed.  Might be time for him to check in with his attorney and send some C&D letters or maybe they are just waiting for the right moment to engage.



Maybe Todd will own his own Walmart....

That'd fix their Pork Butts...:rolleyes:


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## zwiller (Oct 12, 2018)

I would say when Walmart puts their name on something you have a patent on is something my Uncle who is a judge and other relatives that are attorneys would say is "significant".  :)


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## mike243 (Oct 14, 2018)

No walmart on the box bought 1 today before they got gone ,be next weekend before I get to try it


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## SonnyE (Oct 14, 2018)

I do wonder what the composition of imported pellets might be, if they started Importing them.
Talk about a lack of Quality Control and Mystery Wood in your smoke....

(Still trying to get the gypsum out from between my teeth from the imported toothpaste....o_O)


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## fishcatchr (Oct 15, 2018)

New to the forum and stumbled upon this post. Been shopping these hard lately and this helped me tremendously. Went with a 12" tube bought straight from the A-Maze-N Website. Can't wait for it to arrive!


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 16, 2018)

Good choice...JJ


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## fishcatchr (Oct 16, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> Good choice...JJ



Thanks! Looks like the AMNTS already shipped! 

Planning to utilize it with in a Smoke Hollow 30in gas smoker I recently purchased. Unfortunately I purchased and used the smoker prior to finding this site, or I would have purchased an electric. Oh well... Going to give this a shot and make the best of it. Any tips for a newbie using a 12in tube inside the gas smoker that I've got?


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 16, 2018)

Don't pack too tightly. Oxygen is at a premium in a Gasser and you want a steady clean burn...JJ


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## gmc2003 (Oct 16, 2018)

With a gasser sounds like you made the right choice. Enjoy it.

Chris


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## fishcatchr (Oct 16, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> Don't pack too tightly. Oxygen is at a premium in a Gasser and you want a steady clean burn...JJ



Appreciated. I'll report back once I get it all going this weekend (hopefully USPS ships quick!).


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## SonnyE (Oct 16, 2018)

fishcatchr said:


> Appreciated. I'll report back once I get it all going this weekend (hopefully USPS ships quick!).



USPS is my Favorite shipper.
The only time I had trouble was when somebody in Idaho saw Saugus as the town, and the enterprising fool sent my order to Saugus, Massachusetts....
I live in Saugus, California. :confused::mad:
The USPS overnighted my order back to California, no charge.
USPS is my favorite.
I think we all hate waiting once we clicked the button.


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## fishcatchr (Oct 17, 2018)

SonnyE said:


> S is my Favorite shipper.
> The only time I had trouble was when somebody in Idaho saw Saugus as the town, and the enterprising fool sent my order to Saugus, Massachusetts....
> I live in Saugus, California. :confused::mad:
> The USPS overnighted my order back to California, no charge.
> ...


Definitely not knocking USPS. They have served me well also. Mainly just saying that I am anxiously excited that the package arrives before the weekend. Based on the latest tracking, I think it will!


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## SonnyE (Oct 17, 2018)

fishcatchr said:


> Definitely not knocking USPS. They have served me well also. Mainly just saying that I am anxiously excited that the package arrives before the weekend. Based on the latest tracking, I think it will!



I find they typically are the fastest for me. Usually 3 days, or less.
I hope you get your order very soon, and definitely before the weekend.
Weekends are for play!

I'm currently tracking an order from China (As in on a slow boat from),
And one from Walmart.

Walmart sez Friday. China sez November 20th. :confused::(


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## fishcatchr (Oct 18, 2018)

SonnyE said:


> I find they typically are the fastest for me. Usually 3 days, or less.
> I hope you get your order very soon, and definitely before the weekend.
> Weekends are for play!
> 
> ...



Well you were right! USPS came through. My package arrived today. Didn’t get a chance to lite up the tube, but rigged up a slick little system to hang it inside my box. Used two hose clamps. Left them loose so I can slide the tube in and out to fill and light. 

Think that will work?


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 18, 2018)

Close to the fresh air vent, good distance from the heat source, should be money...JJ


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## fishcatchr (Oct 23, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> Close to the fresh air vent, good distance from the heat source, should be money...JJ



Well it turned out great! Practiced on some chicken breast last friday then went "all-in" on two briskets saturday. 

Tried to use a small water pan to keep some moisture in the smoker for the brisket, but had trouble keeping the tube lit. Didn't want to have to worry about it, so I removed the water and just spritzed the meat with some apple juice/beef broth.

Smoked the briskets to be frozen for a party in a couple weeks. That said, I smoked them for 8 hrs. Wrapped and finished in the oven to 203F. From there, I let them cool and placed in the fridge (still wrapped), then sliced. Although they don't look juicy in the pic (due to being cold), the meat turned out extremely juicy and flavorful. Excited to continue with the AMNTS!


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## fishcatchr (Nov 13, 2018)

Following up on the last few posts I made. Since then, I got fed up with the propane smoker. It was always something and I couldn't trust to take my eyes off it for too long. That said, I was able to sell the propane smoker for what I paid for it (got it on a good sale anyway). I then snagged a MES40 Gen 1.5 from Academy on sale, plus a coupon. Got the MES40 yesterday, and plan to season it tonight. 

Any pointers for using my AMPTS in the MES40?


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## Buf (Nov 27, 2018)

Brand new member, and mostly wet behind the smoking ears. I've been reading posts as time permits today and came across the A-MAZE-N thing and I'm curious, dos this just work by placing pellets in it, then lighting them directly? I will be using a home built (from wood) smoker that (from memory) is approx 40"X40"x48" inside with insulated walls. It was built to hang summer sausage and smoke in the winter. It's been several years but we have made some sausage and I remember it turning out well. I also have an old bread proofing box on wheels that I'd insulated that I'd like to use, it currently has an electric heat source with a blower that gently circulates air up a rear vent and discharges every 5-6". My short term plans are for 2-3lb summer sausage sticks as well as snack sticks. And, while typing this I've already gone 47 different ways in my mind... Forgive my rambling? Oh, yes... My heat source in the wood smoker was a burner from an outdoor deep fryer, I'm looking to come up with a set and forget method of maintaining temp. Best advice?


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 28, 2018)

Yes Buf. The AMNPS is a maze that you load with flavor wood pellets, 3/8" from the top, light one end, letting the flame burn a couple minutes until you get a uniform solid Cherry of burning pellets. Blow out the flame and the AMNPS will generate a flavorful Thin Blue Smoke for the next 10 hours with no further attendance needed. For a quick heavy smoke, you can light both ends. The AMNPS will work in either smoker you described. Todd Johnson sells a wide variety of pellet flavors and runs frequent specials and contests...JJ


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## chopsaw (Nov 28, 2018)

fishcatchr said:


> Any pointers for using my AMPTS in the MES40?


I use the tube with a gen 1 mes30 . To much smoke to go inside the box , so I added a mail box . Works great . Also , I add a fine shred wood chip in the tube mixed with the pellets .
Have you tried it yet ? I'd like to know the results .


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## fishcatchr (Nov 28, 2018)

chopsaw said:


> I use the tube with a gen 1 mes30 . To much smoke to go inside the box , so I added a mail box . Works great . Also , I add a fine shred wood chip in the tube mixed with the pellets .
> Have you tried it yet ? I'd like to know the results .



I ran the MES40 with the tube inside, it produced quite a bit of smoke and seemed to burn a little quicker than it should. I think this is due to the heat inside the MES.

From there, I built a mailbox to run the tube in. It seemed to produce about the same smoke, maybe a little less. Although the tube did burn longer.

Lastly, I just purchased the AMPS 5x8 tray on black friday sale. Going to see how that operates compared to the tube in the mailbox. I think it will be much better.

What's the reason you put shredded wood with the pellets?

I still like having the tube and will probably use both for different reasons and cooking methods.


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## chopsaw (Nov 28, 2018)

fishcatchr said:


> What's the reason you put shredded wood with the pellets?


I like the color and flavor it puts on hams and bacon .


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 28, 2018)

chopsaw said:


> I like the color and flavor it puts on hams and bacon .



Blending in Cherry Pellets gives a rich Mahogany color as well...JJ


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## chopsaw (Nov 28, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> Blending in Cherry Pellets gives a rich Mahogany color as well...JJ


I just happen to have some on the way .


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## Buf (Nov 28, 2018)

To a newbie, this forum is like being the only male at a high school prom full of soon to be super models! 

To be clear, if I use the A-MAZE-N I don't need to use another smoke source? Can someone point me to a thread with tips on the actual smoking process of summer sausages, regarding temps and times and so on? 

Amazing info and people here, thank you!


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## 6GRILLZNTN (Nov 28, 2018)

I can't help with sausage questions, but the A-MAZE-N should be fine as your only smoke source.  Also, I would buy a cheap propane torch to light the pellets.  Makes life so much easier.


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## johnmeyer (Nov 28, 2018)

Buf said:


> Brand new member, and mostly wet behind the smoking ears. I've been reading posts as time permits today and came across the A-MAZE-N thing and I'm curious, dos this just work by placing pellets in it, then lighting them directly?


I wrote about using the AMNPS in an external box here:

Reason to put AMNPS into an external enclosure

This video shows you how I light it (most people use a small butane torch), and what it looks like when it is smoking. It will probably look like a small amount of smoke, but for an electric smoker, which is sealed pretty tightly, you don't need much smoke.


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## Michael Cohen (Jan 3, 2019)

Hi John, that was very informative, thanks! I've got a Masterbuilt electric and am unsure where would be the best position to place a 5x8 AMNPS. This is a link to Lowe's website that shows the internal layout. Any ideas?


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 3, 2019)

With that model, left side of the lower shelf, chip loader and tray removed. You will need to Tent the AMNPS if anything can drip on it. Leave as much space as possible between the tent and pellets. Too close and the reflected heat makes the pellets burn too fast...JJ


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## Michael Cohen (Jan 3, 2019)

Dude, thanks! That's exactly the information I was looking for. I mostly use stainless steel pans with racks so dripping is not a problem. I'll be testing this with a section of pork loin tomorrow!


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## johnmeyer (Jan 4, 2019)

Michael Cohen said:


> Hi John, that was very informative, thanks! I've got a Masterbuilt electric and am unsure where would be the best position to place a 5x8 AMNPS. This is a link to Lowe's website that shows the internal layout. Any ideas?


The answer is at the 2:22 mark in the video I posted above.


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## bill ace 350 (Jan 6, 2019)

Hauser said:


> Great post! Can anyone recommend a good brand of 100% hickory pellets that work well in the AMNPS/TS? I've had good success with BBQers Delight but they're not always easy to find here in Toronto!


I love BBQ Delight.

I just picked up 4 - 20lb bags of "Grillers Gold" pellets.

Used some the first time yesterday.

Burned evenly, produced nice smoke and nice aroma.

Flavor was great on my summer sausage.


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## Michael Cohen (Jan 9, 2019)

Went ahead and built the mailbox mod + lifted the tray with corner bolts. Worked pretty well. :)


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## smokie bill (Nov 22, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> Todd Johnson owner of A-MAZE-N is a long time member. Several years ago he had a gen 1 MES. Todd observed 2 problems with the design. You have to reload chips every 30-40 minutes, a PITA, over a 16-20 hour cook, and the unit made no smoke at temps lower than 180°F. No way to cold smoke meat or cheese. Enter the first maze design that burned wood dust. It gave 12+ hours of thin blue smoke, solving the MES flaws. A new issue arose. The dust was great with the MES off, for cold smoking, but didn't work at 225°+. Some time and testing resulted in the redesigned second Maze, the AMNPS ( A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker). This design burned dust for cold smoking, no heat generated, and could burn wood pellets that would generate, 12+ hours of smoke at any temp the MES will produce. Brilliant! As the word got out and sales grew, guys with the gen 2 and other brands of smokers wanted the convenience of the AMNPS. A new problem...The AMNPS needs a good supply of air to stay lit. It worked in the gen 1 MES but not in the brand new MES gen 2 or Gas smokers. The design of the gen 2 did not let enough air get to the pellets and propane burners consume most of the available oxygen leaving nothing for the pellets to burn. Todd went to work on the problem and in short order introduced the AMNTS (A-MAZE-N Tube Smoker). The tube made smoke in pretty much any smoker out there.
> The AMNPS Maze does not burn chips. They can't be packed tightly enough for a continuous burn.
> 
> Todd is a super friendly guy and his customer service is second to none! Give him a call to discuss the MES you have. Find what product will work best in your smoker.
> Masterbuilt never corrected the flaws in successive MES designs. Their fix was to create their Cold Smoke Attachment. An Expensive add-on that has not been getting great reviews around here. As a long time MES owner, I can tell you...While feeding chips for a few hours smoking chicken or ribs is no big deal...You are not going to enjoy staying up 16 hours, overnight or in the rain, snow or heavy wind, feeding Chips to your MES every 30 minutes. Since I got my AMNPS, the MES is TRULY, set and forget and I get plenty of sleep smoking an overnight Brisket or Pork Butt...JJ


Chef JimmyJ, I have had the AMNTS for several years & all I can use it for is to smoke bacon & cheese.  Why?  Because the tube smoker will not stay lit when I turn on the gas burner on my Masterbuilt vertical propane smoker.   Before the tube smoker I had the A-MAZE-N dust smoker.  It, too, would not stay lit.  I worked with Todd on this for quite a while, even going to lengths of putting the dust in the oven for a while to be sure it was perfectly dry.  That didn't work.  After Todd developed the tube smoker, he sent me one , saying that the pellets would stay lit better in it.  I have tried it in my propane smoker, Weber kettle grill & my Char-Broil 4-burner infrared grill.  Neither of the A-MAZE-N smokers would stay lit.  I just don't know what else to do.  I've placed the tube smoker in various locations inside the propane smoker but haven't found a spot where it will stay lit when the burner is turned on.  I really like the amount & density of the smoke coming off of either  of these smokers but I can't use them with a fire.  I finally purchased & mounted a Smoke Daddy on the vertical smoker &, of course, it stays lit since it is not on the inside of the box.  But I find the Smoke Daddy to be cumbersome to use.  I have to keep running out to adjust the amount of smoke & that gets tiring & I don't like the quality of the smoke.  The AMNTS does a wonderful job when used without the gas burner.  Beautiful thin blue smoke  & I can get about 4 hours or so out of the 12" tube.    Oh by the way, I'll tell you that I live in Colorado about 40 miles north of Denver at an elevation of 5000 ft.  We don't have as many "O's"  in our air here as people in the lower altitudes, but Todd has indicated that the pellet smoker should handle it better than the dust smoker.  
      Do you have any wise words of wisdom concerning this problem?  I sure would like to use the A-MAZE-N product.  I'd even be willing to add another pellet smoker tube to the Masterbuilt if I though I needed more smoke.  I just don't know since I can't even begin to get a decent smoke  going for any length of time.  Hope you can give me some good advice.

Bill Bauer


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## chef jimmyj (Nov 22, 2020)

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. At your altitude, lower air density and lower Oxygen is most likely the problem. The Burning Fuel takes up available oxygen before the Pellets can get any. Maybe you can figure a way to Pump additional air into your gasser...JJ


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