# Cold smoking burgers. Qview



## dave17a (Dec 21, 2013)

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__ dave17a
__ Dec 21, 2013






Cold as can be with all the weather that can be had. Putting on new cold smoker with a mix of Hickory and Pecan. Sprinkled T-Bone rub I bought from Westlake. Have used on grilling burgers and is good.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 22, 2013)

Cold Smoking Burgers is no issue in the Winter or when the weather temp is below 40°. But not more than an hour between 40 and 70°F and NEVER if the temp is above 70°F. Bacteria multiply super fast above 70°and although if cooked well done there are still some bacteria that generate toxins that are heat stable. And eating these burger rare is Dangerous...JJ


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## dave17a (Dec 22, 2013)

It was 32 at 4:00 p.m. Gonna freeze them to grill later. Good reply Chef, shoulda brought that warning out myself.


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## buffalo bob (Feb 21, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Cold Smoking Burgers is no issue in the Winter or when the weather temp is below 40°. But not more than an hour between 40 and 70°F and NEVER if the temp is above 70°F. Bacteria multiply super fast above 70°and although if cooked well done there are still some bacteria that generate toxins that are heat stable. And eating these burger rare is Dangerous...JJ



Would this also apply to brats/sausages that aren't cured ?


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## daveomak (Feb 22, 2014)

Buffalo Bob said:


> Chef JimmyJ said:
> 
> 
> > Cold Smoking Burgers is no issue in the Winter or when the weather temp is below 40°. But not more than an hour between 40 and 70°F and NEVER if the temp is above 70°F. Bacteria multiply super fast above 70°and although if cooked well done there are still some bacteria that generate toxins that are heat stable. And eating these burger rare is Dangerous...JJ
> ...




BB, morning....  Any time you subject meat to a smoker ...  You are putting it in a low oxygen environment which promotes botulism...


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## wade (Feb 22, 2014)

Buffalo Bob said:


> Would this also apply to brats/sausages that aren't cured ?


Yes Bob. Without any form of cure or preservative the brats/sausages should be treated as if they are fresh minced meat - which is in fact what they are.


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## disco (Feb 22, 2014)

Good safety advice but I would like to comment on how good looking those burgers are!

Disco


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## buffalo bob (Feb 22, 2014)

Thanks, Wade.
Just so I understand completely, if I keep the smoker box temp. below 40* I'll be OK? Also about how long should I cold smoke them just to get a decent smoke flavor? I plan to cold smoke the brats for flavor then freeze them for finishing on the grill next summer. 
Thanks for the information,
Bob


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## madman mike (Feb 22, 2014)

Buffalo Bob said:


> Thanks, Wade.
> Just so I understand completely, if I keep the smoker box temp. below 40* I'll be OK? Also about how long should I cold smoke them just to get a decent smoke flavor? I plan to cold smoke the brats for flavor then freeze them for finishing on the grill next summer.
> Thanks for the information,
> Bob


Does your smoker have a fan to circulate the smoke? that helps reduce the smoke time significantly if you do. I cold smoke my chorizo for 1.5hr on average and find it is more than enough. But watch the internal temp. Its as important as house temp when cold smoking un-cured ground meat.

Freezing the sausage prior to cold smoking works great, but you need to have a fan in the house otherwise condensation forms on the sausage and the smoke doesn't stick properly. 

Bacteria you want to look out for mostly will be salmonella and especially e.coli. Botulism not so much, that bacteria comes from the soil or dust and cases are very rare, it cannot grow if exposed to any amount of oxygen. there is still enough O2 to inhibit growth in a smoker. If you canning fruits and veg then botulism is a concern..

If you want you can also smoke the meat prior to grinding. Cold smoking whole pieces is far safer. Only the surface is a concern for bacteria growth and you can let the temp in the house get over 40. Some may disagree but I've smoke 1000's of pounds of whole primals this way in my butcher shop over the years. This will impart the smoked flavour you want, but much safer process.  Best to salt rub the outside and let it rest for 24 hrs in the fridge, then cold smoke for 1-2hr, place back in a fridge uncovered to cool and dry for another 12-24hr. then you can use the meat to make sausage. little more to the salt rub but I can let you know more if interested.  Ive had my process tested at a food sciences lab at the request of our health department prior to selling the meat and it is safe and our heath department approved it.


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## mchar69 (Feb 22, 2014)

> if I keep the smoker box temp. below 40* I'll be OK? Also about how long should I cold smoke them just to get a decent smoke flavor? I plan to cold smoke the brats for flavor then freeze them for finishing on the grill next summer.


If you freeze them, below -7 or so for 3 months,

you should kill the parasites.

I personally would just freeze them vacuum packed,

then smoke them next June or whatever.

Easier, as well.

Good luck, Mark


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## madman mike (Feb 23, 2014)

Yep.  Second that.  Smokem when ya eatem


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## dave17a (Feb 25, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> BB, morning.... Any time you subject meat to a smoker ... You are putting it in a low oxygen environment which promotes botulism...





Disco said:


> Good safety advice but I would like to comment on how good looking those burgers are!
> 
> Disco





Wade said:


> Yes Bob. Without any form of cure or preservative the brats/sausages should be treated as if they are fresh minced meat - which is in fact what they are.


Maybe I did wrong?Ate every bit of them burgers after even Food Saver, fried in pan .Still here! All below 40*. TELL ME WHAT!


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## madman mike (Feb 25, 2014)

dave17a said:


> Maybe I did wrong?Ate every bit of them burgers after even Food Saver, fried in pan .Still here! All below 40*. TELL ME WHAT!


Nah, as long as you handled the meat properly your ok. Keep it in the food safe temp zones, cook to minimum 180F and proper sanitization, as long as the meat did not have any E.coli or salmonella you'll be ok.

I've been in the food processing industry for my whole life, literally and I think I better share some insight for those not understanding the actual risks. Ive been required to take more food safe handling and processing courses than I can count.

Botulism isn't an issue with meat, that is a concern when canning foods and smoking some fish, some will say cured pork or ham as well, but I disagree (though best played safe). Raw unpasteurized honey is a concern as well as corn syrup, but they are very rare cases in those foods. It is recommended that children under 2 not be given raw unpasteurized honey due to the risk, pasteurized is fine however. Botulism is actually very rare. Most cases are from home canned veggies that are low in acid and are not properly canned under steam pressure using a pressure cooker for several minutes. The spores of Clostridium botulinum are what create the potentially deadly toxin and are found in the soil and contaminated drinking water.

E.Coli and Salmonella are the 2 main food borne illness bacteria you need to be the most aware and cautious of.

Both are due to contamination from fecal matter, poop on your food. Both have caused alarm in recent years with more reported cases due to contaminated fruits and vegetable than in meat products. Both are natural bacteria in the intestines of cows, chicken and pigs. Spraying manure in the fields creates a high risk of their product going to market and being contaminated with either bacteria. We saw this happen with cucumbers in Europe, tomatoes and romaine lettuce in North America in the last few years and are just a few cases of the many.  Meat is less likely to give you food poisoning than a salad. Rinsing contaminated lettuce doesn't do the trick either. The E.coli and Salmonella don't rinse off under the tap, they must be washed thoroughly.

Parasites are almost unheard of in North America now. Possibly from travelling abroad you may be exposed, but not at home.

There are several others  to be aware of such as Campylobacter Enteritis, Clostridium Perfringens and Listeriosis. Though these are all bacteria to be aware of there is little chance you will be effected by them.

Use fresh meat from a trusted source, follow proper sanitization procedures when handling and storing and you will be fine. Do not use store bought ground or minced meat to make sausage unless you are cooking and eating right away. Only cook fresh ground meat to temps under 180F if you know and trust the source and best if you grind the meat then cook.

Remember, if its full muscle only the outside is effected but when you mince or grind meat it mixes everything together and multiplies, like rabbits on Cialis at an orgy, throughout the entire blend making for the perfect shit storm, pardon the food poisoning pun.


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## wade (Feb 26, 2014)

madman mike said:


> ... Spraying manure in the fields creates a high risk of their product going to market and being contaminated with either bacteria. We saw this happen with cucumbers in Europe, tomatoes and romaine lettuce in North America in the last few years and are just a few cases of the many...


So if you use spray manure in your vegetable garden be sure to wash the lettuce well before using it as the garnish


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## dave17a (Feb 26, 2014)

Yea. The only safe manure is dried, blend that in with your garden and poof great green nice yielding plants. Wet manure, as in won't stay between say a manure fork can't do. Don't know what they do commercially but bet they don't care except for high yields.. Thx for post Mike, don't be mad.... man.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 Dave


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## madman mike (Feb 26, 2014)

dave17a said:


> Yea. The only safe manure is dried, blend that in with your garden and poof great green nice yielding plants. Wet manure, as in won't stay between say a manure fork can't do. Don't know what they do commercially but bet they don't care except for high yields.. Thx for post Mike, don't be mad.... man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they liquefy hog waste for commercial farm use. Many large scale hog farms have tailings ponds where the waste is held. then its sprayed into the surrounding fields. It should be UV treated before spraying, but systems fail, break or cost vs profit.

Cow is composted and spread with shit spreaders. A large hopper trailer with spinning vertical or horizontal tines or augers in the back chewing up the manure and spraying it in the path behind. This is usually done in the fall before the field is cultivated or spring before seeding.    

this video is an example of where the technology first came from  

Country boy from Saskatchewan for those wondering why I know. And man.... I wont be mad. lol. madman is a nickname for my 3yr old boy, Madden.


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## dave17a (Feb 27, 2014)

madman mike said:


> they liquefy hog waste for commercial farm use. Many large scale hog farms have tailings ponds where the waste is held. then its sprayed into the surrounding fields. It should be UV treated before spraying, but systems fail, break or cost vs profit.
> 
> Cow is composted and spread with shit spreaders. A large hopper trailer with spinning vertical or horizontal tines or augers in the back chewing up the manure and spraying it in the path behind. This is usually done in the fall before the field is cultivated or spring before seeding.
> 
> ...



Yes. Grandad had grade A dairy. All manure went out a window to pile and later spread on corn fields for insulage, OK! nuther thread.


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