# Preserving jerky



## hell fire grill (Mar 5, 2008)

I have made fresh beef jerky a couple of times and want to try something different. I want to make some that dont need to be refigerated. I have a couple questions I have to ask before I get started though. Does dehydrating the meat, alone, preserve it? Do I need to add Cure #2 to the recipe to keep it from spoiling. I have ordered Rytek Kutas' book, in addition to the few I already have, but I am also open to any books, links, recipes and methods you guys are willing to recomend. Thanks


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

Fresh beef jerky? You mean you just put it in a dehydrator with no pre-packaged cure/spice mix? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






You MUST cure any meat product that is expected to be processed/stored between 40 and 140 degrees F.

I use Morton's Tenderquick. It's pretty foolproof and makes it hard to kill yourself and friends too. YES  cure can kill you.

I very strongly suggest you do some reading... asking questions like you have has told me you need to know more before undertaking curing meats.


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## pitrow (Mar 5, 2008)

It has always been my understanding that smoke acts as a natural anti-biotic agent, and when dried to a very low moisture content it will keep for a very long time without refrigeration or other measures. Though I am hardly what you would consider an expert on the subject.


Edit: on reading Richtee's response, I guess it's a good thing I don't do jerky all that often. ;-)


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

To some extent. But I'd not bet my gastrointestinal tract on it.


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

Salted solidly I assume  ;{)


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

BTW...you will find the appropriate references in the FIRST chapter of Rytek's book.


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## desertlites (Mar 5, 2008)

lol Rich u make me chuckle at times-Let the debate begin-I use to do jerky all the time in the lowest setting my oven would carry. Thats before I learned bout cure-(20 years ago)than in the dehyadrator still no cure, now I have started doing on the smoker & guess what I use cure now-was I lucky(and friends & family members)? not sure but I have learned alot since than so I gonna cure from now on.I respect everyones technique in there ways & by no means think that my way is the only way.


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

It's only science Des. Anyone can do what they want. I don't think we eat enough dirt, IMO. Has weakened our immune systems over generations. 1000 years ago they ate an AWFUL lot of things that would wipe out half a city today. Modern science has provided us with the tools to best defend against food poisioning. Why not use them instead of dice?


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## desertlites (Mar 5, 2008)

and yes RICH i,'m rereading chapter 1 and yes your right! cure it!


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

Quote-Unquote from Kutas' 3rd Ed.
"Often I've had people tell me that their grandparents didn't usae cures when smoking meats, since some people still think cures are not neccessary. Would a person so young really know what their grandparents were doing? Probably not."

"Or better still, back in "the good old days" how many people died of "natural causes"? An excuse a physician would give when he couldn't diagnose why the person died, no matter how old or young the person was."


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## payson (Mar 5, 2008)

Richtee,
 Would something along the lines of a soy marinade constitute a "cure" or would you actually need to use something like Tender Quick? I've done both but now I'm getting a bit paranoid! I'd much rather be safe than sorry!


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## navionjim (Mar 5, 2008)

I never used to use cure in my jerky, that was until I tried it. I'll never make jerky without it now. It just makes a better product. Cure #1 that is not #2. 

But I have problems with jerky getting a gray/white mold on it in the Houston humidity though. I have some poli-sorbate 80 or maybe its BHT, can't recall, that can be sprayed on jerky to stop this, but I haven't used either yet, preferring to vac seal and freeze until I need it. Besides the mold doesn't hurt or affect the flavor at all, just looks bad.


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## desertlites (Mar 5, 2008)

yup Rich alot died of what was called natural causes & I agree why not use it. I learn daily around this joint. thanks-and Ya Jim my last batch got a slight mold on it also-next time vac pak & fridge for me-or eat it faster?


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## desertlites (Mar 5, 2008)

I go with a cure payson-however i havn't used tender quick-I use prague 1 & 2 not sure how these diff from TQ.


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## payson (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks! I've got a huge tub of honey bacon cure. Might give that a whirl. Also, I use the Hi-Mountain products a lot too. For safety sake should I just cut out soy or teriyaki marinades? I've made multiple batches using a home-made teriyaki with some added hot-sauce. Never had a problem but then again I don't want to tempt fate!!


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

Salt  NaCl- is a curing agent. It is nowhere near as effective as nitrate cures, however. In order to cure reliably with salt alone, the product almost always must be soaked/washed to be edible. The old salt beef and pork in a barrel type stuff.

Hence, nitrate cures. MUCH less required, and more reliable. Personally, I always use nitrate cure in any meat that is to be cool/cold smoked, or aged raw as in some hams and salamis, even some types of sausage.

I use TQ because it is convienient, and pre-measured. A misplaced teaspoon of the Prage cures in a small batch can be lethal. I think the rate for Prague powders is like 1 Oz in 100! lbs.  Miiighty small amounts...


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## richtee (Mar 5, 2008)

Add cure to the maranade. POOF...yer fine.


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## payson (Mar 5, 2008)

Cool. I've got some Tender Quick at home. You don't by chance have a good recipe handy do you?


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## navionjim (Mar 5, 2008)

Des, This is for the mold on the jerky problem. I love their brisket rub too.

http://www.zachspice.com/shop.php?Ca...ucts&cat_id=24

*Potassium Sorbate**MOLD ON YOUR JERKY? A solution of potassium sorbate will prevent mold formation on jerky.*

Use 7/8 of one ounce in a gallon of water, and spray or dip jerky with the solution after drying, or smoking. 

$1.10 an ounce, so its cheap as hell too.
Jimbo


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## blacklab (Mar 5, 2008)

Just bought cure #1 from sauage makers. They say 1 teaspoon for every five pounds of meat.


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## jerkyaddict (Mar 5, 2008)

this is a good question.....
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  most time's i make jerky between the folk's
on the block smelling it and knowing whats up , and sudden rise in house guest's shortly after seems i aint got much left that needs any sorta special care..lol sorry i cant help ya on that one


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## gt2003 (Mar 6, 2008)

I use the hi-mountain jerky seasoning also.  You mix the seasoning and cure together then sprinkle it on the meat, in my case deer meat.  I'm not too sold on their original variety but I really like their peppered variety.  

P.S. - your jerky must suck!  If mine didn't mold within 1 day then there would be no way to tell if it molded because it would be gone, eaten, etc.


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## richtee (Mar 6, 2008)

Well if you have a marinade... why do ya need a recipe? Besides, my recipes don't have much sugar   ;{) Add TQ 1 Tbsp/Lb to your marinade.


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## payson (Mar 6, 2008)

1 TBS per pound of TQ is all I really needed to know! Thanks!


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## hell fire grill (Mar 6, 2008)

Richtee If you are going to respond to my question get the FACTS strait. I dont know what you think you have to gain by leaving a post that makes it sound like I have read or know nothing on the subject. You have made it pretty clear to all your peers here at SMF, that know better, what you know about it. I dont doubt that there are people that would have offered information if they dident feel like another member was going to belittle them also. 

Everyone else that responded in a poitive way. Thank you for your input.


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## desertlites (Mar 6, 2008)

yes 1 tsp prague #1 per 5#s of meat-careful with the stuff.


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## richtee (Mar 7, 2008)

Hey  I mean no belittlement..just trying to help you and your friends/family. From your post, or how I interpeted it- you are not doing jerky in a safe manner. I cannot with a clear conscious neglect to inform you in firm terms of this fact.

Several sources of greater knowledge than BOTH of us have espoused the informaton I have repeated.

Take heed or not.


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## bassbuster (Mar 22, 2008)

why did my post go to the fisrt page rather then the last?


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## bassbuster (Mar 22, 2008)

been smoking for about 2 months now i have done picnic hams, briskets, turkey legs, chickens, and jerky.

my question is if i smoke my jerky in my small brinkmann electric smoker for 2 hrs and then dry it in my confection oven am i safe with no cure?
im only doing a small amount at a shot and its eat in in a week.
i have not had any sickness except the fact that i made a really spicy batch and it burned my taste bud's out!


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## richtee (Mar 22, 2008)

Most likely, yes. Assuming the meat is clean and you refridgerate the jerky, and you keep it under 4 hours... MOST LIKELY. All I can say according to the rules.

Why NOT cure, tho?


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## walking dude (Mar 22, 2008)

i have never used a cure with jerky........i normally dry it in a dehydrator.......this last time, tho, i started in my verticle gasser smoker......smoked couple hours.........then finished up in the dehydrator.......only reason i can think mold would be happening, it wasn't thoroughly dried enuff......specially if it was a thicker cut of meat.....i slice mine 1/4 inch thick......mine tho never lasts long enuff to worry bout using a cure.........


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## richtee (Mar 22, 2008)

Check your user control panel for display mode , or if you replied to the original post...ummm you did... it goes in that order.


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## bassbuster (Mar 22, 2008)

i cant find any types of cures in our supermarkets here in south jersey.
strage i know i even went to the infermation desk in the super marker and the typed all the names of it in and nothing is listed in there stores as far as acme, shoprite, and superfresh???


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## richtee (Mar 22, 2008)

Google Morton Salt. order the Tenderquick.


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## geob (Mar 23, 2008)

It's the slow smoking with low heat that increased the posibilities for bacteria to grow.  Not how long before you eat it.
Grandpa used a brine with everything he smoked.  Most don't do this anymore which created the need for cure.

Great discussion either way.

Smoking


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## navionjim (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm going to publish my personal manifesto on jerky making in a few days, but in the meantime I've got to wade in on this, and ask that some of the hotter tempers out there just relax a bit. No one is ever 100% right when it comes to this hobby, there are several ways to skin (or smoke) a cat....yech!

I started making jerky when I was a kid, way-way too many years ago and back then everyone used the Lhuer Jensen Little Chief to do it, this was only because it was the only tool available on the market back then. I did this soma many times I have Lhuer Jensen's "Deluxe Recipe for Beef or Venison Jerky" burned into my synapses.

I made hundreds of batches of this in my youth I had 6 Little Chiefs at one time, and it makes great tasting jerky. Not to say there aren't plenty of different ways to do it that may be just as good but this one has stood many of us well for years and I'll bet you have all this stuff in your kitchen right now.

(Note: The published recipe DOES NOT HAVE ANY CURE IN IT!)

Honestly you can make jerky just fine with just the sodium chloride (salt) in the recipe, especially if it is almost fully dried. Personally I prefer to use a cure in my procedure and I do so today, but millions of people have eaten jerky made with out cure or an expensive package of prepared mix from Hi Mountain or Cabala's without dieing, I'm one of them.
It won't matter anyway because your jerky will all be eaten up before it has time to rot anyway.

Nuff Said, this is how the Lhuer Jensen Book tell you how to make it:

2 cups Soy Sauce
1 cup Red Wine
1 cup Water, (But I prefer to use Apple Juice instead of the water)
1/4 cup NON IODIZED Salt
1/3 cup Brown Sugar
2 Tsp Black Pepper
2 Tsp Onion Powder
2 Tsp Garlic Powder
2 tsp Tabasco Sauce.

Slice mussel meat into 1" X 6-8" strips between 1/8 to 1/4" thick. 
Soak (Wet Brine) 12-24 hours and drain. Do not wash the brine off!

I liked to sprinkle the strips with a dusting of the same three powdered spices used in the wet brine for added bite.

Lay on the rack in the Little Chief and smoke with 3 pans of chips until it is dry to your liking. (6-20 hours in Oregon depending on outside temp and age of the Little Chief)

Stand by for my long version, but I used the above recipe for years and it's a great one for those just starting out., (what I use now is different, but this works great)


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## cowgirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Good looking recipe Jimbo! Thanks for sharing. :)


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## richtee (Mar 24, 2008)

Thank you Jim. It's not temper I display, it's concern. Yes, jerky CAN be made without cure. It just requires more attention and an educated touch. It's a dangerous alley with an end to it.

I like the idea that my jerky does not require cooling, and is absolutely safe no matter how bad I botch the temps/time after curing.

Drying does impart a level of immunity to trouble, but it's the period between raw/wet and dry where trouble can creep in.

Thanks again, and look forward to the book  :{)


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## cowgirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Add me to the list of folks that have never used a cure to make jerky. lol
I do use soy sauce in my brine though.


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## navionjim (Mar 24, 2008)

Sure it does Ken Salt itself is a curative agent. And not only is the liquid half soy sauce there is also that 1/4 cup of non-iodized salt added to it. Anything would have to be hearty to live in such a brine.
Jimbo


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## walking dude (Mar 24, 2008)

jim.....i have made jerky for more years than i care to remember.......over 25 of em...........when i first started out...........i only had the oven......lowest heat setting, and leave the door open a crack............NO cure......but did use soy and worch and liquid smoke...........way back then........cure was summin i had never heard of............in fact...........didnt even hear of it till i joined this site.............haven't died yet.......but, like others have said.......never last long enuff to worry bout..........and i always store in a quart jar...........bout 10 years ago.....started used the dehydrator...still do at times............i have several pounds of venison to make jerky outta.........and plan on using these new recipes, you kind folks are sharing


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## hell fire grill (Mar 25, 2008)

Jim Thanks for the recipe and method info.

I put the jerky on the back burner for a while. I started building a new gravity feed cooker that I can cold, medium (around 150*) and hot smoke with or hook up a small fan and use it as a dehydrator with or without cold smoke. A little more tinkering and it will work nicely. I'll post pics in the equipment section when its finished which probably wont be untill after the Columbia river gets closed again on the 4th of next month. With the springers in the river its difficult to focus on anything but that. Hopefully I'll get a chance to smoke at least one of these fish while they're fresh.


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## navionjim (Mar 25, 2008)

Augggggg! Cacus! 
I had no Idea, I was born in Corvallis, grew up in Newport and lived in Portland for 17 years. I used to fish buoy 10 every year! God I wish I was still there!
Jimbo


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## charcuterie (Apr 23, 2008)

I personally dont use cure.  While i see both sides of the argument valid, the one point that stuck out in my head is not using cure requires extra education and sanitary techniques.

I have worked in professional kitchens all my life.  I have been health board certified several times.  The thing to remember about food safety is a little memonic called FAT TOM

Food-starches, sugars, fats, proteins.  This is what bacteria eats
Acid-acid kills most food borne illness bacteria at room teperature. Ever heard of civeche?
Temperature-between 40 and 160 is when bacteria will grow hours.
Time-it takes about 4 hours for bacteria to start to multiply
Oxygen-areobic bacteria needs oxygen to survive.
Moisture-without moisture (water) nothing can survive.

With that being said...there is plenty of food in the meat that is being jerked, removing the fat (fat is digested faster by pathogens) you eliminate a quick meal for bacteria.  
Acid, vinegar, wine, or citrus juice will help to lower the PH of the meat deterring bacteria buildup.
Hot smoking is around 200.  The air i sterilzed, and eventually the meat will reach 160 degrees within 4 hours.
Oxygen is depleated in a smoker making it even harder for bacteria to survive.
Salt and sugar remove moisture as well as smoking.  With a nice dry crusty layer, your meat will last around a week in a dry invironment without the need for cure.  Keep it in a paper bag.  the paper will allow air to get at meat to help dry it and because the paper is softer, it will absorb most of the atmospheric moisture.

I also do not use soy, corn products, or liquid smoke with my jerky.


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## hell fire grill (Apr 23, 2008)

That all sounds like good information. Thanks for chimeing in.


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