# Propane burner inside firebox



## Ringer (Sep 25, 2021)

I need some advice on this guys. I've been mulling over putting a 10 inch propane burner in the firebox to help regulate temperatures some. The smoker is a 300 gallon tank and the firebox is pretty large. I built it according to the calculator but Temps are all over the place regardless of airflow adjustments. It is all sealed well. 

My question is, if I put a 10 inch banjo burner would the stainless lp hose work or would I need to insulate it?  I'm not sure what the stainless hose temp ratings are.

Thanks in advance


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## smokin peachey (Sep 25, 2021)

Can you post some pics of your smoker? You shouldn’t be having these issues unless someone needs modification


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## jcam222 (Sep 25, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I need some advice on this guys. I've been mulling over putting a 10 inch propane burner in the firebox to help regulate temperatures some. The smoker is a 300 gallon tank and the firebox is pretty large. I built it according to the calculator but Temps are all over the place regardless of airflow adjustments. It is all sealed well.
> 
> My question is, if I put a 10 inch banjo burner would the stainless lp hose work or would I need to insulate it?  I'm not sure what the stainless hose temp ratings are.
> 
> Thanks in advance




 smokin peachey
  has a burner in his as a lighting mechanism. He may know.


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## Ringer (Sep 25, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> Can you post some pics of your smoker? You shouldn’t be having these issues unless someone needs modification


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## smokin peachey (Sep 25, 2021)

Where did you get the build calculations from? At a quick glance it appears like your firebox is into the cook chamber to far.  If you are going to put a propane burner in I would put it in from the end opposite the firebox.


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## Ringer (Sep 25, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> Where did you get the build calculations from? At a quick glance it appears like your firebox is into the cook chamber to far.  If you are going to put a propane burner in I would put it in from the end opposite the firebox.


I got the calculations from a long time member here. It was a reverse flow calculator. I can't remember who it was.


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## Ringer (Sep 25, 2021)

It was daveomaks calculator. 

Before I do this I may mess around one more time with the upper vents. I may have too much heat staying in the firebox rather than flowing through the cc as it should. That would explain why it eats wood like a pack of beavers on steroids.


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## 1MoreFord (Sep 25, 2021)

I agree that it shouldn't require additional heat if things are right.

You shouldn't put a propane burner inside Unless you have a proper burner with thermocouple flame out protection.  Otherwise you're building a bomb.

I have a propane lighter on mine but never have it on with the firebox door closed to contain the gas in case of a flameout.


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## SmokinEdge (Sep 25, 2021)

That upper air inlet on the fire box is what moves the heat from the firebox through the cooker, the bottom inlet feeds the fire itself. Never seen a middle air inlet before, so I would not use it. 
Basically, control the CC temp with the upper air inlet, and manage the fire with the bottom inlet. How are you running it now?


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## boykjo (Sep 26, 2021)

IMO, A burner in the firebox is'nt going to make any difference. The fire box looks to be 1/4 inch  and the 300 gallon drum is 1/8 or less. There is not enough mass to get the cook chamber to hold temperature or to keep hot. That's why your burning so much wood. I would try installing a baffle on top of the stack and regulate there to slow the flow of hot air through the chamber. If I were to add a burner it would be in the cook chamber.          My 2 cents

Boykjo


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## smokin peachey (Sep 26, 2021)

How hot do your tires get being so close to the firebox?


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## Ringer (Sep 26, 2021)

Ok so I'm seeing that a burner is not the way to go here, at least not in the fb. 

Truth, my cc is 1/8 steel.

*I see 2 possible issues or a combination of the two. 

1. not enough thermal mass.
2. Airflow

I will try a baffle on the stack.
I will try opening up the upper vents on the fb more.

would adding a coal basket inside the fb be a more cost effective/safer option?

would fire bricks in the cc be an option? Welding blanket?

in an ideal world, I would go get 2 sheets of 1/8 and weld them up but I do not have the resources to accomplish this.

thank you all for helping me get to the heart of the issue.*


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## smokin peachey (Sep 26, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Ok so I'm seeing that a burner is not the way to go here, at least not in the fb.
> 
> Truth, my cc is 1/8 steel.
> 
> ...


Can you post a pic of the inside of your firebox? What do you place your wood on currently. How big are the splits you are using?


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## Ringer (Sep 26, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> How hot do your tires get being so close to the firebox?


They don't get too hot. They do get warm for sure but nothing that would be damaging. I've had the cc Temps up to 500 before and that was just to flash off the gasses in the metal.


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## Ringer (Sep 26, 2021)

The splits I use are probably in the 16-18 inch range. It's mostly red oak for firepits. They are pretty big.

The grate is 1/2 AR500.


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## smokin peachey (Sep 26, 2021)

Ringer said:


> The splits I use are probably in the 16-18 inch range. It's mostly red oak for firepits. They are pretty big.
> 
> The grate is 1/2 AR500.


This all looks pretty good. Do you feel like heat/smoke is drawling though your cook chamber fairly decent?


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## Ringer (Sep 26, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> This all looks pretty good. Do you feel like heat/smoke is drawling though your cook chamber fairly decent?


Somewhat, I am new to reloading smokers, I don't get creasote meat at all, it just eats waaay to much wood and requires pretty much constant babysitting.

Here is a brisket that I did. I don't think the air is stagnant in there. My smoke comes out of the stack light to medium most times. It doesn't get very cloudy


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## smokin peachey (Sep 26, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Somewhat, I am new to reloading smokers, I don't get creasote meat at all, it just eats waaay to much wood and requires pretty much constant babysitting.
> 
> Here is a brisket that I did. I don't think the air is stagnant in there. My smoke comes out of the stack light to medium most times. It doesn't get very cloudy


Brisket looks good. When you say a lot of wood how much is a lot? Are you talking like 2 wheelbarrows in 6 hours or a 1/2 a wheelbarrow ?


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## Ringer (Sep 26, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> Brisket looks good. When you say a lot of wood how much is a lot? Are you talking like 2 wheelbarrows in 6 hours or a 1/2 a wheelbarrow ?


So that brisket took roughly 18-20 hours and roughly 40 to 50 splits and 20lb of lump hardwood charcoal.

Cc Temps would dip down to 150 at times then shoot up to 350 or 375 when new splits caught.


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## daveomak (Sep 26, 2021)

Looks as if your lid/door for the Cook Chamber does not seal well....   That is a  MAJOR problem trying to control the temperature... 
Is there a damper between the FB and CC ???
If the smoker is sealed air tight, meaning  no air leaks,  you do not need any adjusters other than the 2 air inlets on the FB....
Generally, run the upper air inlet open enough so the FB does not get HOT, which means the heat from the wood is heating up the CC and not the FB...
Adjust the lower air inlet to adjust the heat....
I really don't think 1/8" steel for a 300 gallon cooker, is doing you any favors....   Add welding blankets to the CC to help insulate it...  It might take 2 blankets thick...  If you want, you can "skin over" the CC and blankets with  18 gauge steel sheet...  To protect them, hold them in place etc...   Secure with self drilling screws to the CC....  and the door... etc....  until it's totally covered...


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## boykjo (Sep 26, 2021)

daveomak said:


> Looks as if your lid/door for the Cook Chamber does not seal well....   That is a  MAJOR problem trying to control the temperature...
> Is there a damper between the FB and CC ???
> If the smoker is sealed air tight, meaning  no air leaks,  you do not need any adjusters other than the 2 air inlets on the FB....
> Generally, run the upper air inlet open enough so the FB does not get HOT, which means the heat from the wood is heating up the CC and not the FB...
> ...



I agree with Dave..... Also Like I said earlier try putting a plate over the stack and regulate it down. The hot air might be directed right up to the top of the cc and out the pipe.

Boykjo


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## Ringer (Sep 26, 2021)

daveomak said:


> Looks as if your lid/door for the Cook Chamber does not seal well....   That is a  MAJOR problem trying to control the temperature...
> Is there a damper between the FB and CC ???
> If the smoker is sealed air tight, meaning  no air leaks,  you do not need any adjusters other than the 2 air inlets on the FB....
> Generally, run the upper air inlet open enough so the FB does not get HOT, which means the heat from the wood is heating up the CC and not the FB...
> ...





 daveomak

The cc lid seals well. I have felt closing the gap in the pictures. It is pretty much air tight other than the stack and vents. There are no dampers other than the vents.

So the welding blanket solution would essentially be sandwiching the layered blankets between some 18 ga steel on the outside of the existing lid?

I guess the sides of the "sandwich" would be left open, or would screwing the sides down close the gap?

Would you do top and bottom of the CC or just the lid?

Is there a particular brand, thickness, or material welding blanket that I should choose? Felt, carbon, fiberglass etc.


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## Ringer (Sep 27, 2021)

Anyone have recommendations on which welding blankets to use for this skinning project?


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## GonnaSmoke (Sep 28, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Anyone have recommendations on which welding blankets to use for this skinning project?


As inexpensive as they come...





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## boykjo (Sep 29, 2021)

I dont think the welding blankets are going to do anything. They are just flame retardant. Not insulators.....
If your rig is not leaking you should be good
I would first dampen the stack with a piece of plate steel and run your rig and see how it does with some chicken thighs. 
I'm assuming there is a reverse flow plate in the smoker. I didnt see one in your build pictures

Boykjo


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## Ringer (Sep 29, 2021)

boykjo said:


> I dont think the welding blankets are going to do anything. They are just flame retardant. Not insulators.....
> If your rig is not leaking you should be good
> I would first dampen the stack with a piece of plate steel and run your rig and see how it does with some chicken thighs.
> I'm assuming there is a reverse flow plate in the smoker. I didnt see one in your build pictures
> ...


Yes there is a 1/4 ar500 reverse flow plate that runs the majority of the CC. There is a 9 or 10 inch opening for flow and that was sufficient according to the calculator.

I will attach some pics.

I did add a tuning piece to the stack so that I can drip it down to grate level and adjust the smoke. Maybe this needs to be dripped all the way down?

I will give the stack damper a try to slow the flow a bit.


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## boykjo (Sep 29, 2021)

OK.... everything looks good. What has to happen here is the heat needs to be contained in the CC. The only few ways heat escapes is out the stack, out the lid openings and dissipation through the steel. I regulate heat with the stack damper and fully open with the lower FB damper...  Damper that pipe at least 50% and see what goes on. You should be burning 1 split every 45 min to an hr....






						boykjo's reverse flow build 05/07/2015 update
					

Well..............I might as well jump in and build me one too. Picked this up for 200 bucks. I am guessing it should take me about a year to build. I'm not as aggressive as I use to be. Will probably be doing some measuring at the SELA gathering. Dont have any plans.... Just going to find one I...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				




Boykjo


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## boykjo (Sep 29, 2021)




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## Ringer (Sep 29, 2021)

boykjo said:


> OK.... everything looks good. What has to happen here is the heat needs to be contained in the CC. The only few ways heat escapes is out the stack, out the lid openings and dissipation through the steel. I regulate heat with the stack damper and fully open with the lower FB damper...  Damper that pipe at least 50% and see what goes on. You should be burning 1 split every 45 min to an hr....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent, I'm trying  this tonight. Thanks for your input.

As a side note I did open the top damper on the fb
 and could see heat/smoke coming out rather than drawing in so I opened the one just under it. With that one open the heat does not come out.

My door is actually upside down on the fb, the 2 vents were supposed to be at the bottom for fire regulation...but I got in a hurry. It doesn't seem to be an issue though as it draws from the single vent just fine. 

Thanks for the help.


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## smokin peachey (Sep 29, 2021)

You could even lay a board on top of the stack and use it as a damper to see if it makes a difference. You can adjust the board to see if it makes a difference. If it helps bust out the welder and weld on a damper.


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## Ringer (Sep 29, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> You could even lay a board on top of the stack and use it as a damper to see if it makes a difference. You can adjust the board to see if it makes a difference. If it helps bust out the welder and weld on a damper.


Lol...exactly what I did tonight. It seems to be getting some longer burns now. I also added a grate with smaller holes to keep the coals burning rather than falling through. I'm going to get the damper cut tomorrow and hopefully put on this weekend sometime.


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## smokin peachey (Sep 29, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Lol...exactly what I did tonight. It seems to be getting some longer burns now. I also added a grate with smaller holes to keep the coals burning rather than falling through. I'm going to get the damper cut tomorrow and hopefully put on this weekend sometime.


Awesome. I am glad you are getting it figured out.


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## Ringer (Oct 2, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> Awesome. I am glad you are getting it figured out.


Update below


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## smokin peachey (Oct 2, 2021)

Looks great! How’s it working?


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## Ringer (Oct 2, 2021)

smokin peachey said:


> Looks great! How’s it working?


I'll let ya know Friday. 

I have 4 brisket and 5 butts going on for a wedding. Thanks for all the help everyone.


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## boykjo (Oct 4, 2021)

Looks Good.......  

Boykjo


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