# Masterbuilt smoker vent position?



## northernsmoke

I picked up a Masterbuilt 30inch S/S smoker as a replacement smoker.  I had ribs to perfection in my old smoker but now I need to find my way again.

I noticed in the owner's manual, very little reference is made to position of vent for the smoker during use.  I believe it said to have completely open during jerky or fish and this is it.  I tried smoking three racks of ribs at 220F.  I had the vent completely closed and at 4hrs...  they were still gray and rubbery, I opened the vent wide open and the finally started to brown.  Not very good in the end.

Is there any advice with regards to vent position?  I have read a 1/16 inch to half to full open . 

In my previous smoking experience, I have never wrapped anything in foil.  Am I missing something by not doing this?


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## mossymo

If wood is smoking in a smoker I advise ALWAYS having the exhaust vent completely open, otherwise you risk having the creosote on your smoked product. Only time I close the vent is for storage or if I am done applying smoke and just using the smoker for heat to bring the product to the final temp.

Foiling on some things retains moisture after the smoke is applied.


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## jamminjimi

I have the 30" MES also. I leave the vent open 90% of the time. Only time I close it is when I want heat and not applying smoke. Try the 2-2-1 for BB and the 3-2-1 for St Louis rib methods. What this is 2 hours smoke 2 hours wrapped in tinfoil no smoke and 1 hour unwrapped no smoke at 225*.  I have had excellent luck with this.


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## northernsmoke

I have a pork shoulder on right now (4lbs).  I put it on at 1200 with the temperature set @ 225F.  I have the vent full open.  It has a nice light brown crust, nothing extraordinary though.  The internal probe reads 141F in the thickess part.  Now what?  Do I leave it alone and wait for it to hit the 195F mark, or should I wrap it in foil to help it achieve the desired temp.  It still seems pretty tough...  Any advice is appreciated. Thanks


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## deltadude

Sorry for not replying faster, so this is for your future reference....

First on the vent, all the experienced MES owners both 30" and 40" operate the MES when smoking with vent full open, never adjusting it.

There is now an exception and that is using the A-Maze-n-smoker, because it doesn't use chips it uses wood dust and very small bits, it ignites easily and with the vent choked down will burn for hours.  Other than that always full open.

As for your butt, everyone here has a little different take on when to pull it out of the smoker.  Personally when I smoke a pork shoulder/butt, I'm going for super tender pulled pork, that is only accomplished after hours and hours of low n slow smoke/cooking that breaks down all the connective tissue and renders out most of the fat.  Figure about 1.5 hours per pound at 225º, some butts will cook faster some slower.  When to foil or not, and when to pull from smoker is a matter of individual preference.  So I will tell you what I do.

When I first got the MES I usually foiled at about 165º - 170º, and cooked until temp was at 195º - 200º.  However the crust or bark was breaking down in the foil due to all the moisture released, and I wanted to have a little more crisp bark.  So now I foil at 180º - 185º and cook until 205º - 210º.  So far it has yielded more crisp bark pieces, and most butts have enough fat to keep the meat moist even when it goes over 200º.  One caution, I am only recommending the higher temp to foil and cook for larger butts 8 lbs or heavier.  Smaller butts may suffer and get over cooked.

Good luck with your next butt........


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## mythmaster

I have a 30" MES and will differ from the general consensus here when I say that I leave my vent closed for the whole time.  I'm not concerned about the smoke becoming stale because it still exits the vent at a rapid rate, and the 30" MES is so small that I don't see any reason for concern about that.  Also, keeping the vent closed is recommended in the MES manual, and it has always worked best for me.  I have tried it both ways, and the temperature inside the 30" MES stays more consistent when the vent has been closed (and there is 1/2 pan of water in the water tray).  I don't even need to use a smoker temp thermometer anymore because I know that it will always be within 2 degrees of accuracy.

For ribs, you need 5 hrs for baby backs and 6 hours for spares at 225 regardless of whether you foil them or not.  Every time you open the door, though, you lose heat and increase the cooking time.

Here's the thread about some baby backs I just did with my 30" MES.  I left the vent closed the whole time: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/95562/baby-backs-with-brown-sugar


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## pignit

The vent is used for controlling the humidity. In most circumstances it needs to be wide open. If you live in an incredibly dry area with little to no humidity then you may want to close off the vent to increase the humidity level. Too little humidity and you don't absorb the smoke as readily and you dry your meat out... too much humidity sours the meat. You never want to see humidity in the smoker... like water droplets. I never adjust my vent where I live... very humid in the summer and need all the ventilation I can get. Closing your vent is not the way to get more smoke flavor.. just sour taste.


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## deltadude

I think someone is pulling someone's chain here..

{Post Edit}

I withdraw the remainder of my post, as it may be interpreted as incendiary.


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## pineywoods

We really don't mind differing opinions here as most of what we do can be done more than one way and much of it depends on one's own methods, techniques, and tastes. However we will insist that posts not be nasty, mean, or derogatory and when one is we would prefer you report it to us to handle instead of trying to reply to it.


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## jeffrey98335

You want to leave your vent open 50% to all the way.  I have tried smoking with the vent closed and you dont get much smoke and it makes the meat with a funny taste.

If you doing jerky you want it open to let the moisture out anyways. 

I did some pork shoulders last weekend that turned out awesome.  I smoked them until they got to 175 degrees and then wrapped em in foil and put them back in until 195.   Everyone ranted and raved about em


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## deltadude

I thought this thread was closed, due to some of the language being used....... hmmm

There is no law that says the vent can't be adjusted.  However there is common sense, you want the wood chips to burn and smolder.  Anything less than wide open for the MES is going to choke the process of a clean burn which produces TBS.  There are 3 tiny air inlet holes in the wood chip loader, The size of those holes are and designed for a certain amount of wood chips to catch, burn and smolder, with a wide open vent, any less air flow will restrict the process.

The AMNS burns saw dust, so the vent can be choked way down since the material burning is easily ignitable and already burning.


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## mythmaster

That was me with the language -- I apologize, and those posts were deleted.

My MES disagrees with you.  Not only do I get TBS with the vent fully closed, but I also get it for 5-6 hours using soaked chips without ever having to add any more.  Interestingly enough, that's exactly how the manual says to do it.

So, if everyone here thinks that they know more about how a product was designed than the people that designed it then that's just fine with me.  I'm not going to argue about it anymore.
 


deltadude said:


> I thought this thread was closed, due to some of the language being used....... hmmm
> 
> There is no law that says the vent can't be adjusted.  However there is common sense, you want the wood chips to burn and smolder. * Anything less than wide open for the MES is going to choke the process of a clean burn which produces TBS.*   There are 3 tiny air inlet holes in the wood chip loader, The size of those holes are and designed for a certain amount of wood chips to catch, burn and smolder, with a wide open vent, any less air flow will restrict the process.
> 
> The AMNS burns saw dust, so the vent can be choked way down since the material burning is easily ignitable and already burning.


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## Bearcarver

I hate to get in this, but here goes. I think the vent should be open all the way when you're smoking. I remember when it was cold out, I thought I was getting good smoke, but when I opened the door there was no smoke in the chamber. Then it dawned on me that what I thought was smoke coming out of the vent was water vapor. I think you gotta let that out. IMO

Bear


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## jirodriguez

Pretty much for all types of smokers a good rule of thumb it 50-100% open on the top vent. - with more emphasis on the 100% open. There will always be some exceptions to that like the Amaz-N-Smoker, or personal preferance. But like I said it is a good rule of thumb for when you are in doubt.


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## deltadude

mythmaster said:


> That was me with the language -- I apologize, and those posts were deleted.
> 
> My MES disagrees with you.  Not only do I get TBS with the vent fully closed, but I also get it for 5-6 hours using soaked chips without ever having to add any more.  Interestingly enough, that's exactly how the manual says to do it.
> 
> So, if everyone here thinks that they know more about how a product was designed than the people that designed it then that's just fine with me.  I'm not going to argue about it anymore.


Before you start waxing about how a product was designed based on some mythical manual you read, you better scan the manual and post it before you quote it again to make your argument.  First we are talking about the Masterbuilt Electric Smokehouse, there are basically two models a 30" and 40", which are sold through various outlets some with different names, but all have a digital control unit, and a wood chip loader (that allows the user to load wood chips externally without having to open the door).  This wood chip loader is on the right side facing the door.   Provided we are talking about a real MES, I have taken the time to check every MES manual at Masterbuilt support.

FINDING #1   The word VENT is NOT USED anywhere in the manual.

FINDING #2   The word EXHAUST is NOT USED anywhere in the manual.

There is no mention anywhere in the MES manuals listed on Masterbuilt's website that remotely discuss vent position during operation or even when not operating.

SO.... unless you can produce a genuine Masterbuilt Electric Smokehouse manual for a MES as described above, your statement regarding what the manual say's is a gross error, or fabrication to try and make a bad argument stand.

Masterbuilt Manuals

Digital Smokehouse 20070407

Electric Smokehouse (Bruce Foods) 70070106, 72070106, 72070206

Electric Smokehouse 20070106, 20070206

Electric SmokeHouse20070407

The next are not MES they do not have the digital control, or side wood feeder, or dual wall construction.

Electric SmokehouseESQ30B2, 20070210, 20070410, 090618

Electric SmokehouseESQ30B2, 20070210, 20070410

Further, while it is possible that your MES may have some sealing issues or uncommon holes for air to enter or leave, that is an exception and not the typical MES, thus accounting for your perception of reality.

 One thing for sure, there are three things required to normally get something to burn (heat, fuel, and an oxidizing agent usually oxygen).  Without sufficient oxygen, a fire cannot begin, and it cannot continue. With decreased oxygen concentration, the combustion process slows.  Smoldering is the slow, low-temperature, flameless form of combustion, sustained by the heat evolved when oxygen directly attacks the surface of a fuel like wood chips.   By depriving the combustion process of air, we are choking it and eventually extinguishing it; i.e, when covering the flame of a small candle with an empty glass, fire stops; to the contrary, if we blow over a wood fire, we activate it (by bringing more air).

I did post above in a previous post, I did think you were attempting to pull our chain...

Then maybe one can appreciate even more chain pulling...........

On another note there may be something after all in the Masterbuilt manual that does account for this perception of reality.


> • The use of alcohol, prescription or non-prescription drugs may impair the user’s ability to properly assemble or safely operate electric smoker.


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## pignit

Quote:


mythmaster said:


> My MES disagrees with you.  Not only do I get TBS with the vent fully closed, but I also get it for 5-6 hours using soaked chips without ever having to add any more.
> 
> I'm not going to argue about it anymore.


I think it would be a disservice as a reliable source of info to new folks scratchin their heads on this one to not discuss this statement further. I have never been able to get 5 to 6 hours of smoke from a handful of chips soaked or not out of my MES. I only get about 4 hours out of my Smoke Daddy using a full load of pellets. Maybe your confusing the steam coming from the unit for smoke. I'm sure if you take a look in the smoke tray after 30 minutes to an hour..... you'll find your chips turned to ash. I've been smoking weekly with the 40" MES for going on 2 years and I've never been able to get those kind of results or have I heard of anyone getting that kind of smoke time out of a tray of chips. If there is a method for getting 5 to 6 hours of smoke out of an MES chip tray I would like to use it.

I don't think this is an argument...... I have had a bit of experience with the MES and have been sharing info about them since purchasing one. I now have a 30 and 40. I have also conversed with a lot of other MES owners and have never heard anyone getting that length of time out of a tray of chips. As far as the vent goes... I'd say do what works. I don't like the results I get when I choke the vent back... so I keep it open... results may vary.


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## mythmaster

deltadude said:


> Before you start waxing about how a product was designed based on some mythical manual you read, you better scan the manual and post it before you quote it again to make your argument....


They call it the "air dampener".  It's the same 30" that is in my sig, so I didn't feel the need to mention that.






 


PignIt said:


> Quote:
> 
> I think it would be a disservice as a reliable source of info to new folks scratchin their heads on this one to not discuss this statement further. I have never been able to get 5 to 6 hours of smoke from a handful of chips soaked or not out of my MES. I only get about 4 hours out of my Smoke Daddy using a full load of pellets. Maybe your confusing the steam coming from the unit for smoke. I'm sure if you take a look in the smoke tray after 30 minutes to an hour..... you'll find your chips turned to ash. I've been smoking weekly with the 40" MES for going on 2 years and I've never been able to get those kind of results or have I heard of anyone getting that kind of smoke time out of a tray of chips. If there is a method for getting 5 to 6 hours of smoke out of an MES chip tray I would like to use it.
> 
> I don't think this is an argument...... I have had a bit of experience with the MES and have been sharing info about them since purchasing one. I now have a 30 and 40. I have also conversed with a lot of other MES owners and have never heard anyone getting that length of time out of a tray of chips. As far as the vent goes... I'd say do what works. I don't like the results I get when I choke the vent back... so I keep it open... results may vary.


I can assure you that I'm not confusing smoke with steam because whenever I open the door I have to turn my head to keep from getting all of the smoke in my eyes.  While I start out with just a few chips and add just a few more while it's preheating, I fill up the tray after I place in the food.  It will then produce TBS for over 5 hours.  I say 5-6 because last time I shut it off after 5 but it was still going strong.


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## eman

I have to turn my head too. but it is because of steam.

 Try not using the water pan and use the same ammount of chips you allways use .

 You will see a difference.


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## deltadude

mythmaster said:


> They call it the "air dampener".  It's the same 30" that is in my sig, so I didn't feel the need to mention that.


The page you are showing,* is NOT in any of the manuals* listed at Masterbuilt website, nor is it in my manual from 2008.  The page "Lets Get Started" is not in any of those manuals or mine.   Please scan all pages and post, including the top /first page and the last page.

*The information is obviously not current or endorsed by Masterbuilt since it has been omitted in all the manuals they list on their support site, as well as the manual I have.*

Please

What year is your MES?  When and where did you purchase the MES (name of vendor)?

I may owe you an apology if your manual is indeed a legitimate MES manual, and have no problem offering that apology, since you believe you are following instructions.

I will go out and test your procedure and post the results.


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## mythmaster

deltadude said:


> The page you are showing,* is NOT in any of the manuals* listed at Masterbuilt website, nor is it in my manual from 2008.  The page "Lets Get Started" is not in any of those manuals or mine.   Please scan all pages and post, including the top /first page and the last page.
> 
> *The information is obviously not current or endorsed by Masterbuilt since it has been omitted in all the manuals they list on their support site, as well as the manual I have.*
> 
> Please
> 
> What year is your MES?  When and where did you purchase the MES (name of vendor)?
> 
> I may owe you an apology if your manual is indeed a legitimate MES manual, and have no problem offering that apology, since you believe you are following instructions.
> 
> I will go out and test your procedure and post the results.


I ordered it online March 12, 2010 from Walmart online (this one has the access panel in the rear).  I just looked for it over there again, but it isn't listed.

Here's the manual (one of the pages didn't scan properly):  30in MES Manual.pdf

Also, when I soak the chips I just soak them for 30 minutes then pour out the water.


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## dale5351

mythmaster said:


> I ordered it online March 12, 2010 from Walmart online (this one has the access panel in the rear).  I just looked for it over there again, but it isn't listed.


I'm curious, is the full back panel screwed on or riveted on? 

That access panel is a great improvement for helping to fix the contacts when they go bad (mine went bad after three years and again after another year).


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## pignit

The instructions say to close damper to retain moisture and heat.... not that you must close damper when smoking. As I stated before.... after reading a number of books on smoking... the damper is used to control the humidity... too much humidity leaves meat sour and keeps it from absorbing smoke. If you run the dampers closed on a wood stove over a period of time... your chimney will be full of creosote. The same process happens inside a smoker. Stagnant air creates creosote. I'm not sayin don't do it... I'm saying I have much better results with my damper full open. I want to keep a constant stream of smoke filled hot air passing over my meat. I have used my MES anywhere from once a week to 4 times a week over the last year and a half and not once have I had the benefit of a tray of chips lasting 5 or 6 hours..... and if I could possibly choke the chips to the point that a handful of chips would last 5 or 6 hours... I still wouldn't do it. That would be creating stagnant stale smoke and in my experience.... creosote.

There are a lot of methods for smoking and we all have our ways we do things. I think each of us should do things the way we find work the best for us... as I mentioned before, to lead a new MES user into thinking something is wrong by not being able to produce 6 hours of smoke out of a single tray of chips is misleading. You are the only person I've ever known to achieve this result. I have never used the MES with the damper closed completely down either..... so I can't say it can't be done.


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## ronp

PignIt said:


> The instructions say to close damper to retain moisture and heat.... not that you must close damper when smoking. As I stated before.... after reading a number of books on smoking... the damper is used to control the humidity... too much humidity leaves meat sour and keeps it from absorbing smoke. If you run the dampers closed on a wood stove over a period of time... your chimney will be full of creosote. The same process happens inside a smoker. Stagnant air creates creosote. I'm not sayin don't do it... I'm saying I have much better results with my damper full open. I want to keep a constant stream of smoke filled hot air passing over my meat. I have used my MES anywhere from once a week to 4 times a week over the last year and a half and not once have I had the benefit of a tray of chips lasting 5 or 6 hours..... and if I could possibly choke the chips to the point that a handful of chips would last 5 or 6 hours... I still wouldn't do it. That would be creating stagnant stale smoke and in my experience.... creosote.
> 
> There are a lot of methods for smoking and we all have our ways we do things. I think each of us should do things the way we find work the best for us... as I mentioned before, to lead a new MES user into thinking something is wrong by not being able to produce 6 hours of smoke out of a single tray of chips is misleading. You are the only person I've ever known to achieve this result. I have never used the MES with the damper closed completely down either..... so I can't say it can't be done.


Bravo! I agree whole hardeldy.

I have used mine for 2 yars and only get 30 -40 minutes on a load.


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## deltadude

mythmaster,

I apologize for being harsh and casting doubt on what you said pertaining to the MES manual.  You have gone out of your way to scan and post the manual, and I appreciate it.  Obviously Masterbuilt's support site is not up to date.

I have yet to run a test with smoking something with the vent closed.  I have a london broil for our Sunday get together dinner, but was thinking I would grill it.  I will certainly run a test some time this week.

Again I am sorry, as I said above.

best regards


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## ryanhoelzer

The first thing I noticed was than none of those manual model #s listed are the new ones, 20070110, 20071009, or 20070810.


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## mythmaster

dale5351 said:


> I'm curious, is the full back panel screwed on or riveted on?
> 
> That access panel is a great improvement for helping to fix the contacts when they go bad (mine went bad after three years and again after another year).


The full back panel is riveted, but the access panel is screwed on.

 


PignIt said:


> The instructions say to close damper to retain moisture and heat.... not that you must close damper when smoking. As I stated before.... after reading a number of books on smoking... the damper is used to control the humidity... too much humidity leaves meat sour and keeps it from absorbing smoke. If you run the dampers closed on a wood stove over a period of time... your chimney will be full of creosote. The same process happens inside a smoker. Stagnant air creates creosote. I'm not sayin don't do it... I'm saying I have much better results with my damper full open. I want to keep a constant stream of smoke filled hot air passing over my meat. I have used my MES anywhere from once a week to 4 times a week over the last year and a half and not once have I had the benefit of a tray of chips lasting 5 or 6 hours..... and if I could possibly choke the chips to the point that a handful of chips would last 5 or 6 hours... I still wouldn't do it. That would be creating stagnant stale smoke and in my experience.... creosote.
> 
> There are a lot of methods for smoking and we all have our ways we do things. I think each of us should do things the way we find work the best for us... as I mentioned before, to lead a new MES user into thinking something is wrong by not being able to produce 6 hours of smoke out of a single tray of chips is misleading. You are the only person I've ever known to achieve this result. I have never used the MES with the damper closed completely down either..... so I can't say it can't be done.


I've never noticed any creosote nor has the taste of anything that I've smoked this way been any different than when I left the damper fully open.  I was concerned about the smoke becoming stale, as well, but this doesn't happen.  The chamber of the 30" is small enough and enough smoke escapes through the closed damper that this doesn't create a problem.

 


ronp said:


> Bravo! I agree whole hardeldy.
> 
> I have used mine for 2 yars and only get 30 -40 minutes on a load.


That's because you use dry chips and leave the damper fully open -- both of which are contributing factors in how long the chips burn.

 


deltadude said:


> mythmaster,
> 
> I apologize for being harsh and casting doubt on what you said pertaining to the MES manual.  You have gone out of your way to scan and post the manual, and I appreciate it.  Obviously Masterbuilt's support site is not up to date.
> 
> I have yet to run a test with smoking something with the vent closed.  I have a london broil for our Sunday get together dinner, but was thinking I would grill it.  I will certainly run a test some time this week.
> 
> Again I am sorry, as I said above.
> 
> best regards


There's no need to apologize.  We all want the same thing  -- to present the best and most accurate information based on our own experiences.

 


ryanhoelzer said:


> The first thing I noticed was than none of those manual model #s listed are the new ones, 20070110, 20071009, or 20070810.


This doesn't surprise me.  It's quite common for manufacturers to release a specific model number to be distributed at "big box" outlets.


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## geosmokr59

I bought a MES black last year and have smoked 3 turkeys, 4 chickens, lots of ribs, 2 meat loafs, and 3 briskets.  For a starter smoker it is great.  I am not all knowing about the smoking topic, I just love to cook meat.  For what it is worth, I am in dry desert country and have kept the damper barely open on most of my smoking,  I have found that the wood chips carbonize (don't burn or ash completely but the meat is always tender and juicy for the most part.  I am experimenting with the opening.  I know that when I have left the damper open full during the last 2 hours of smoking, I got dryer meat.  I think the answer is somewhere between, so today I am opening it 1/4 and see how that goes.  This seems to be a hot smoking topic and I am trying to learn and be the best.  I can't find much about damper openings except on the Cabellas units where it says that "closed for smoking, 1/2 for roasting (I think), and full open for jerking".  I get a decent smoke ring but I think it could be better.  I am willing to bet that there is a fine line between moisture and smoke ring.  I am smoking with ribs with JD Oak Barrels and chicken with a fruit wood.


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## Bearcarver

geosmokr59 said:


> I bought a MES black last year and have smoked 3 turkeys, 4 chickens, lots of ribs, 2 meat loafs, and 3 briskets.  For a starter smoker it is great.  I am not all knowing about the smoking topic, I just love to cook meat.  For what it is worth, I am in dry desert country and have kept the damper barely open on most of my smoking,  I have found that the wood chips carbonize (don't burn or ash completely but the meat is always tender and juicy for the most part.  I am experimenting with the opening.  I know that when I have left the damper open full during the last 2 hours of smoking, I got dryer meat.  I think the answer is somewhere between, so today I am opening it 1/4 and see how that goes.  This seems to be a hot smoking topic and I am trying to learn and be the best.  I can't find much about damper openings except on the Cabellas units where it says that "closed for smoking, 1/2 for roasting (I think), and full open for jerking".  I get a decent smoke ring but I think it could be better.  I am willing to bet that there is a fine line between moisture and smoke ring.  I am smoking with ribs with JD Oak Barrels and chicken with a fruit wood.


Sounds like you have one of the bad chip burners. If it's only a half drawer, and half of the dumper is blocked off, you should still be able to get the FREE retro-fix from Masterbuilt. Chips should turn to dust, not just get black.

Also: Most electric smokers do not get any smoke ring, but it's only for show anyway.

Welcome!  You should go to Roll Call, and introduce yourself, so you can get a proper welcome.

Bear


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## davidmc4

We're all on the quest for the perfect smoke

This is not a forum for a jab or a joke

A serious mind and a patient hand

Will surely lead to the Promised Land

A rich smoke ring and a tender taste

Will ensure that nothing goes to waste

So share your thoughts with mercy and grace

And all will benefit from this place!


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## padronman

I am leaving mine almost completely open and the unit holds heat well.  The bark and color so far are amazing. 

As for the wood not burning?  Mine is set at 225F right now and the chips are turning to white ash.  I apparently got one of the good chip burners!!!


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## alelover

davidmc4 said:


> We're all on the quest for the perfect smoke
> 
> This is not a forum for a jab or a joke
> 
> A serious mind and a patient hand
> 
> Will surely lead to the Promised Land
> 
> A rich smoke ring and a tender taste
> 
> Will ensure that nothing goes to waste
> 
> So share your thoughts with mercy and grace
> 
> And all will benefit from this place!


What he said.


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## domapoi

deltadude said:


> The page you are showing,* is NOT in any of the manuals* listed at Masterbuilt website, nor is it in my manual from 2008.  The page "Lets Get Started" is not in any of those manuals or mine.   Please scan all pages and post, including the top /first page and the last page.
> 
> *The information is obviously not current or endorsed by Masterbuilt since it has been omitted in all the manuals they list on their support site, as well as the manual I have.*
> 
> Please
> 
> What year is your MES?  When and where did you purchase the MES (name of vendor)?
> 
> I may owe you an apology if your manual is indeed a legitimate MES manual, and have no problem offering that apology, since you believe you are following instructions.
> 
> I will go out and test your procedure and post the results.


It is listed on the one that I downloaded from the Masterbuilt website. It is the one called "Masterbuilt smokehouse smoker 07092010 20070910 Manual". It has that same exact page. I would have attached the file that I downloaded, but for some reason when I click on the "insert attachment" tool,  this forum says I don't have permission to create an attachment. Go figure!


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## ptbrauch

I stumbled across this looking for some other info, but in reading some of the posts, it sounds like several people are talking past each other.  Here are some of my experiences that may connect some seemingly unconnected points made.  Its been my experience that the more the vent is open, the more heat escapes the smoker, ergo to maintain the temp, the heating element must remain on for longer durations.  Since the heating element sits directly under the wood chips, if its on longer, the quicker they're going to burn down.  So if you leave the vent wide open, you probably won't get as long out of your chips as you would if the element wasn't on as much.  Its not hard for anyone to test this--turn it on, bring it to temp, put some chips in and then see how long it takes to burn up the chips with the vent either fully opened or fully closed.  Then repeat putting the vent in the opposite position.

There was another posting mentioning the burning of the chips.  To be frank, if you're burning your chips, you're doing it wrong.  The chips should smolder and smoke, not burn (thin blue smoke).  If you see flames on your chips, something is not right.  Now technically ignited wood and smoldering wood are doing the same thing--oxidizing, but the rate at which the ignited chips oxidize is much faster and though the total heat produced will be equal between burning chips and smoldering chips at the end of the day, burning chips are releasing that heat at a much faster rate.

Now in my own experience, I've smoked meat with the vent is all different positions.  I've not found that it makes a whole lot of difference to the meat.  In my experience, how well the smoker is prepped before putting the meat in (bringing it to temp, getting smoke going, etc.) and the mass of meat going into the smoker have much more effect on the meat. 

My preference is to leave the vent open just enough that smoke doesn't come out the smoker box.  My theory is that this way, as much of the heat as possible is retained while still moving the smoke through the smoker.  Doing this, I have found that I can get a few hours out of a load of chips (though my preference for long smokes is to use "log sticks" [small logs cut to the length of the smoke box and then split into quarters or so] one or two of those can often be used for several smokes depending on what's being smoked). Everything I've read on creosote formation is that it forms on a cold surface.  So if you let the meat warm up a little before putting it in the smoker, that shouldn't be an issue.  I would think that if a person was concerned about humidity in their smoker, they'd use sand in the water pan vs water.  Water is going to boil at 212F no matter the vent position.


----------



## instigator

Bearcarver said:


> Sounds like you have one of the bad chip burners. If it's only a half drawer, and half of the dumper is blocked off, you should still be able to get the *FREE retro-fix from Masterbuilt*. Chips should turn to dust, not just get black.
> 
> Also: Most electric smokers do not get any smoke ring, but it's only for show anyway.
> 
> Welcome!  You should go to Roll Call, and introduce yourself, so you can get a proper welcome.
> 
> Bear


Can you tell me how to obtain the free retro fix ? I would like to update mine. Thanks you


----------



## tjohnson

Call Masterbuilt and ask them for one

You'll need your Serial Number

TJ


----------



## Bearcarver

Yup---What Todd said.

Bear


----------



## sonnyhad

I have a new unit a few weeks old, and the chip space in my dumper is only a few inches long. Does that mean I don't have the retro fix in mine?


----------



## Bearcarver

sonnyhad said:


> I have a new unit a few weeks old, and the chip space in my dumper is only a few inches long. Does that mean I don't have the retro fix in mine?


Sounds like it, Sonny.

This video should tell you---Bad one coming out---Good one going in:

http://www.masterbuilt.com/video/sept2010/smokeretrokit.wmv

Bear


----------



## tjohnson

sonnyhad said:


> I have a new unit a few weeks old, and the chip space in my dumper is only a few inches long. Does that mean I don't have the retro fix in mine?




I don't think any new MES 40's have the new chip pan included from the manufacturer

TJ


----------



## Bearcarver

TJohnson said:


> I don't think any new MES 40's have the new chip pan included from the manufacturer
> 
> TJ


You could be right Todd.

I had thought they just got caught with their pants down, and had to learn of the bad chip burners from us (the customers), and it was too late ---they were already shipped out.

I had been figuring that once they catch up with the big push they had a year ago, they would start putting the bigger one (that works properly) in at the factory, but so far I haven't noticed that taking place. 

Bear


----------



## bigbob73

All the 30" at lowes seem to have the new tray, the internal probe, and newer controller.


----------



## sonnyhad

I have the 30" unit and I think the wood chip burner is the new one but the loader cannot be, as its small like the video shows for the old ones. But the chip burner is as wide as the slot that holds it. About 8" I'd guess. Like I said earlier I just got it a couple weeks ago now. I'm using the crap out of it. And waiting for my amnps to show up for even more action. I just have to master it. Which is very nearly done. I'm getting lots of info here and appreciate it.


----------



## tjohnson

sonnyhad said:


> I have the 30" unit and I think the wood chip burner is the new one but the loader cannot be, as its small like the video shows for the old ones. But the chip burner is as wide as the slot that holds it. About 8" I'd guess. Like I said earlier I just got it a couple weeks ago now. I'm using the crap out of it. And waiting for my amnps to show up for even more action. I just have to master it. Which is very nearly done. I'm getting lots of info here and appreciate it.




The chip loader still has a filler in it to block off 1/2 of it.

Remember, just because you have a large chip pan DOES NOT mean you should fill it up!!

You'll create lots of ugly white smoke and creosote.  I'm guessing that this is why the chip loader is blocked off.  They don't want you to overfill the chip pan.

A small hand full of chips is all you need.

Todd


----------



## Bearcarver

Then it sounds like they are putting the new, wider, better working chip burners in at least some of their new smokers, according to Sonny & Bigbob.

I'm glad to hear that !!

Bear


----------



## goose57

I just bought a 30" @ Cabela's 3 weeks ago and it has the old one in it.

Goose57


----------



## Bearcarver

goose57 said:


> I just bought a 30" @ Cabela's 3 weeks ago and it has the old one in it.
> 
> Goose57


Hmmmm---Confusing!!

Now I'm starting to wonder if it depends how long the store has had it in their own storage. Could be new, yet manufactured 6 months ago, or longer.

Bear


----------



## sooner john

Just got a new 30" from Home Depot online. It has the new tray and half blocked loader. Seasoned it last night, smoking brisket today.


----------



## tomwilson49

my experiance also


----------



## SmokinAl

The initial question was where to position the top vent.

IMHO it's wide open all the time unless your cold smoking.


----------



## finally

new to smoking, just purchased MES 30, what is TBS?


----------



## sonnyhad

Yep, I figured that out real fast!! I thought at one point that the wood must have burned up, so I added more. but it was real warm outside so the burner wasn't kicking on too much. I opened the door to turn the chicken i was smoking around and the chips caught fire! I just shut the door and choked off the vent and the fire went out. I then re-opened the vent and all was good. So I made a note to self, "do not overload the wood chips dummy" LOL!

So this might be a good note on vent position. You need air to get the wood chips burning, less air to stop it from burning! Closed to hold heat, open to keep the burner going longer. I guess that makes it simpler to understand.


----------



## tromaron

finally said:


> new to smoking, just purchased MES 30, what is TBS?




Thin blue smoke.  That's the kind you want.  White billowing smoke ruins the flavor and creates creosote.


----------



## tjohnson

sonnyhad said:


> Yep, I figured that out real fast!! I thought at one point that the wood must have burned up, so I added more. but it was real warm outside so the burner wasn't kicking on too much. I opened the door to turn the chicken i was smoking around and the chips caught fire! I just shut the door and choked off the vent and the fire went out. I then re-opened the vent and all was good. So I made a note to self, "do not overload the wood chips dummy" LOL!
> 
> So this might be a good note on vent position. You need air to get the wood chips burning, less air to stop it from burning! Closed to hold heat, open to keep the burner going longer. I guess that makes it simpler to understand.




That's Funny!

Been There Too!

Todd


----------



## rcfire77

Hi all! Just to chime in on the equipment that is being shipped (or at least what what is being sold off of the shelf currently at Sam's Club), I just picked up the 40" model from Sam's Club yesterday. SS door, black cabinet, rivetted back panel, temp probe w/remote, small chip tray. Seasoned it tonight like someone had suggested on another post, I think it was Bearcarver, and put chips in right off of the bat. Air temp was about 78*. It started heating up rapidly. Most of the smoke from the oil residue was gone by around 110*, 5 minutes in. Smoke from the dry hickory chips started to be produced in a good amount at 146*, 9 minutes in. Was up to set temp (275*) in about 20 minutes. I was pretty happy with the results. I only noticed one quirk. The unit had ALOT of carryover, in regard to temperature, on the initial rise. It got to 275* and overshot that by 20* to 295*. It was already cycled off and it did come back down to the set temp in about 5 minutes. For the rest of the 3 hours it didn't fluctuate more then 3 degrees from 275*. Now I realized there was no water in the pan and no food load to stabilize and hold temps so I don't expect such a high overshoot when it used for cooking. After it was finished I took the chip tray out and there was nothing but fine white ash. I was really surprised how little it burns down to. The only problem I have with the unit is that I have to fight to get the chip loader out. And before you ask I did have it positioned to be removed, not to dump. I only say that because I picked up on that from somebody else's post earlier this season, and I didn't want to be that guy 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






...it wouldn't release easily either before seasoning nor after. It must be getting hung up on something inside somewhere. Tomorrow in the daylight I am going to see if I can find and scuffed metal or corners that it might be getting hung up on. I need to do something because I really have to wrench it to get it out and it moves the whole unit. It wouldn't work with meat in the unit. Other then that it is great! Now I just have to figure out what to make on Friday afternoon...


----------



## Bearcarver

OK guys, I just found this:

This is a PM I sent to MBTechguy, after I changed my chip burner in my new MES 40.

This should explain the great difference between a properly functioning MES chip burner, and one that isn't working properly.

This is from November of 2010:

============================================

PM to Masterbuilt Tech Guy:

Hi Darryl,

Thanks a lot for the great service!!!

As for the retro:

Remember how my original chip drawer did last week? It was 54˚ outside, and it had taken 17 minutes to start smoking, and the temp was already up to 169˚, when it finally started smoking.

With this new Retro-fix chip burner, it was 52˚ outside, it took 3 minutes to start smoking, and the smoker temp was only at 59˚ (light smoke)---65˚ (medium smoke). This thing now works Awesome ! I will still be using the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER a lot of the time, but this MES 40 is ready for any time I call on it !

Thanks Again,

Bear

==============================================

Note that if it the element had to be on continually for 17 minutes to get it to smoke, it will NOT smoke right once it gets to your set temp, because it will be cycling so much that it will not cause the chips to smoke. The replacement fixes that problem, in the fact that it only has to be on for 3 minutes to get it to smoke.

I hope this helps you guys in knowing if yours is working properly. 

Remember to allow for outside ambient temps.

Bear


----------



## jwsailor

Bearcarver

when you say chip burner is that the actual heating element?


----------



## Bearcarver

jwsailor said:


> Bearcarver
> 
> when you say chip burner is that the actual heating element?


I would be referring to the "Chip burner assembly", which would be the whole box, at the bottom, including the drawer, but not including the element.

The element stays where it is, no matter which complete chip burner assembly you put in.

If you watch the change-over video, you will see them remove one assembly & put in the other one.

Bear


----------



## sooner john

What can be done to increase TBS and eliminate white billowing smoke and therefore creosote? Soak the chips? Wide open vent? New box? What else? Is one wood more likely than another to form TBS? If theres a thread on this already please point me towards it. TIA


----------



## jwsailor

ok Bearcarver, I may be a little slow, where can i find the video? I called Masterbuilt and they told me the smoker box change over was only for the 30 MES, I am a little confused.


----------



## Bearcarver

jwsailor said:


> ok Bearcarver, I may be a little slow, where can i find the video? I called Masterbuilt and they told me the smoker box change over was only for the 30 MES, I am a little confused.


 JW,
Here is the video:

http://www.masterbuilt.com/video/sept2010/smokeretrokit.wmv

Originally the retro-fix was only for MES 30s, but then they found out the MES 40 had the same problem, and they widened their target.

They had great service, but sometimes you can get a girl on the phone that can be very much less than helpful. I thought they solved that problem.

Try another day, and another time. If that doesn't work, PM Darryl, at "MBTechguy". He's a great guy to deal with! You might have to wait a bit for him, because sometimes he's out of country for awhile.

Bear


----------



## guppy

I just bought a Masterbuilt 30" electric with digital controls. Never used a smoker before. I did a pork butt following the recipee in the manual. It didn't say to put water in the water pan so I didn't.

It was a seven pound butt and I cooked it for 5 hrs at 220. Then I wrapped it in foil and cooked it another 2 hrs. When I pulled it out the internal temp was 185. It had good flavor, but wasn't real tender. What do I need to do, water in the pan, longer time?


----------



## Bearcarver

Guppy said:


> I just bought a Masterbuilt 30" electric with digital controls. Never used a smoker before. I did a pork butt following the recipee in the manual. It didn't say to put water in the water pan so I didn't.
> 
> It was a seven pound butt and I cooked it for 5 hrs at 220. Then I wrapped it in foil and cooked it another 2 hrs. When I pulled it out the internal temp was 185. It had good flavor, but wasn't real tender. What do I need to do, water in the pan, longer time?


Guppy,

We usually cook to internal temp---not time.

Your smoker temp was OK, but you could try foiling at 165 internal temp. Maybe add a little of your favorite liquid to the foil. Then keep it in there until the IT is about 205˚. Then it will be real tender. The recipes that come with smokers aren't as good as the ones on this forum. Try doing a search here (above). This forum has a great search engine!!!

Bear


----------



## captturbo

Guppy said:


> I just bought a Masterbuilt 30" electric with digital controls. Never used a smoker before. I did a pork butt following the recipee in the manual. It didn't say to put water in the water pan so I didn't.
> 
> It was a seven pound butt and I cooked it for 5 hrs at 220. Then I wrapped it in foil and cooked it another 2 hrs. When I pulled it out the internal temp was 185. It had good flavor, but wasn't real tender. What do I need to do, water in the pan, longer time?
> 
> I would suggest keeping water in the pan for a long smoke like a pork butt or a brisket.


----------



## domapoi

I too would suggest putting water or some other liquid in the pan for long smokes. I also would suggest adding some type of liquid, either in the form of a BBQ sauce or mop or juice, inside the foil when you wrap it. As far as final temp. goes, if you want to have sliced pork butt don't cook it above much higher than what was suggested in the manual, I think it was 175 degrees. If you want to have PULLED port, then you need to cook it to 205 degrees. Pork will not pull until it reaches above the 200 degree mark.


----------



## billy boy

I leave my vents completely open.  I am getting a new thermometer so that I can watch my temps better.  I would open it to check things more frequently, at first.


----------



## candurin

So, if you are all recommending that the vents remain open (OK, let's call is more than 50% open), what about those of us with the analog smoker (20070210) that has not vent on top?

*Do  we need to mod it (if so, any recommendations) or perform some other method of venting?*

FYI, I plan on using my AMNPS for all smoking applications.  Embarassingly enough my brand new smoker and PS has been sitting in the garage for a month and I have not yet had a chance to season it and fire it up.


----------



## jwsailor

Bearcarver, thanks for the tip. I think I told you I had called masterbuilt a few months back and they told me the retrofit was just for the 30 MES. Well I took your advice and called back on Monday, well here it is Thursday I got a new bigger chip burner in my hand and will install it Friday in my MES40. Thanks again.


----------



## Bearcarver

jwsailor said:


> Bearcarver, thanks for the tip. I think I told you I had called masterbuilt a few months back and they told me the retrofit was just for the 30 MES. Well I took your advice and called back on Monday, well here it is Thursday I got a new bigger chip burner in my hand and will install it Friday in my MES40. Thanks again.




That's great!!!!!----I often wonder how people made out. I like when someone lets me know when one of my tips paid off.

Makes it all worth it !  LOL---Makes that one finger that does all the typing very happy!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Thank You Sailor,

Bear


----------



## candurin

candurin said:


> So, if you are all recommending that the vents remain open (OK, let's call is more than 50% open), what about those of us with the analog smoker (20070210) that has not vent on top?
> 
> *Do  we need to mod it (if so, any recommendations) or perform some other method of venting?*
> 
> FYI, I plan on using my AMNPS for all smoking applications.  Embarassingly enough my brand new smoker and PS has been sitting in the garage for a month and I have not yet had a chance to season it and fire it up.


Just wanted to bump this thread to see if I cuold get some information and opinions for the analog MES 30 smoker with no vent.


----------



## Bearcarver

candurin said:


> Just wanted to bump this thread to see if I cuold get some information and opinions for the analog MES 30 smoker with no vent.




There are a few who have them, but I can't think of who they are.

Bear


----------



## roller

Me either .....


----------



## candurin

I adjusted the door latch to allow smoke to billow out the front.  Work great while seasoning.  But, how much smoke should I allow to escape?  Should it be billowing out, just gently blowing a light, steady stream or simply allowing a constant stream?

Thanks for the help so far.  Can't wait to use it Thursday and get my first Q-View up.


----------



## domapoi

Can't speak for the analog MES 30" but I can tell you that you should never have so much smoke that it is bellowing out (that promotes the build up of all that yucky black stuff on the inside walls of your smoker and on your food). You never want more that a thin blue wisp of smoke. I would imagine that you should not open up the door so much that you loose the heat needed to cook your items in the smoker while having just as you put it, "just gently blowing a light, steady stream".

That is just my opinion.


----------



## Bearcarver

candurin said:


> I adjusted the door latch to allow smoke to billow out the front.  Work great while seasoning.  But, how much smoke should I allow to escape?  Should it be billowing out, just gently blowing a light, steady stream or simply allowing a constant stream?
> 
> Thanks for the help so far.  Can't wait to use it Thursday and get my first Q-View up.


I would try to make less smoke, instead of having to allow extra smoke out of the door seals.

Your AMNPS should solve your smoke problems.

Bear


----------



## tjohnson

TBS, not Billowing White Smoke!!!

Here's one of my favorite pics.

The smoker on the left is Billowing White Smoke and the Smoker on the right is Nice TBS







You want a nice stream of TBS coming thru your exhaust vent on your MES


----------



## candurin

I guess I should have rephrased my question.  Should I have the door open enough where the amount of smoke that "vents out" is  just as much smoke as the AMNPS is generating?


----------



## domapoi

TJohnson said:


> TBS, not Billowing White Smoke!!!
> 
> Here's one of my favorite pics.
> 
> The smoker on the left is Billowing White Smoke and the Smoker on the right is Nice TBS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want a nice stream of TBS coming thru your exhaust vent on your MES


I love how clean the top of that MES looks. LOL........Just yanking your chain.


----------



## doczod

I've got a Masterbuilt 40 inch smoker.  I always leave the vent closed and have had fabulous results with it.  I put 6 racks of baby backs in it, start it off at 275 just to get the wood smoking, then turn it down to 225 and add wood about every hour.  I don't use any water in it because the moisture in the meat stays in the smoker when the vent is closed.  The door seal keeps it all in there.  After 4 hours, those ribs are falling off the bone and have a nice bark on them.  I also did 16 pounds of butts the same way.  Started off at the high temp till the smoke started, dropped it to 225, and added wood every hour for the first 3 hours.  At 11 hours, I turned the heat back up to 275 for 1 hour.  At the end of the 12 hours, the butts were perfect. Had "Mr. Brown" on the outside and the bones pulled right out.  All the time, I kept the vent closed.  Last night I did 14 pounds of beef tenderloin.  I got the smoker up high as usual for the smoke to start, dropped the temp to 225 after a few minutes, and kept thermometers in the meat so I could see them through the door.  I pulled them at 130 degrees (about 55 minutes), crisped them up on the grill at very high heat for about 2-3 minutes per side (4 sides), then tented them so they would rest for about 15 minutes before carving.  I made a fabulous red wine reduction to drizzle over the slices and was a hero!  The Masterbuilt smoker is excellent for me.  The only thing that I could improve on might be to have a little more smoke.  I'm thinking of using an amaz n pellet smoker in it to add some more flavor and to cold smoke in it.


----------



## tjohnson

candurin said:


> I guess I should have rephrased my question.  Should I have the door open enough where the amount of smoke that "vents out" is  just as much smoke as the AMNPS is generating?




The short answer is "YES"

You can create TBS in your smoker with ot without the AMNPS.  It may take some tweaking, but you'll figure it out.  I don't know why they don't have a decent intake and exhaust on some of these electric smokers, but......That's a different thread.

Some guys use a cheap aquarium pump to pump some air thru the drain hole, into the the smoker, for good combustion.  I've had a customer cut a small intake vent towards the bottom.

It's just odd to me that they don't install a good intake and exhaust vent.

Todd


----------



## tjohnson

DOMAPOI said:


> I love how clean the top of that MES looks. LOL........Just yanking your chain.


This is my "Icky Smoker"

I only use it for testing pellets and sawdust.

I bet you it has close to 1,000 hours of cold and hot smoking on it.  This thing burns something almost every day, and sometimes 24 hrs/day.

Once a month, I give it a good cleaning, but it never sees food any more.

TJ


----------



## bigbob73

TJohnson said:


> This is my "Icky Smoker"
> 
> I only use it for testing pellets and sawdust.
> 
> I bet you it has close to 1,000 hours of cold and hot smoking on it.  This thing burns something almost every day, and sometimes 24 hrs/day.
> 
> Once a month, I give it a good cleaning, but it never sees food any more.
> 
> TJ


A testament to the greatness of MES


----------



## domapoi

TJohnson said:


> This is my "Icky Smoker"
> 
> I only use it for testing pellets and sawdust.
> 
> I bet you it has close to 1,000 hours of cold and hot smoking on it.  This thing burns something almost every day, and sometimes 24 hrs/day.
> 
> Once a month, I give it a good cleaning, but it never sees food any more.
> 
> TJ


As I said Todd, I was just yanking your chain. I can see that most of the stuff on top of that MES is just sawdust and not really dirt dirt.


----------



## fmfa0801

I called MES. They said leave it open for doing jerky and smoked fish. Then they said for ribs, butts, briskets......... only leave about 1/4 open or less. I live in SWFL. Every thing I smoke I leave it 95-100% shut. I also use the water pan & add chisp every hour or so. I smoke every thing at 225 and get a crispy out side. The smoke still exist and the meat is very moist & tender.


----------



## domapoi

Tod, is that a biscuit cutter on top of your MES? Is that to block the vent because there is so much creosote on the on the vent it doesn't move any more?


----------



## csparker

Hi all, I'm not a novice to smoking meat, by this is my first MES, and so after reading this thread I'm a bit confused. Having never before had a window on my smoker, I think I may be overthinking things. When I use the smoker with the vent all the way closed, and with well soaked mesquite chips as was recommended by the manual I get no smoke flavor, so today I am smoking some chicken just to test out the theories on the forum. Basically the changes are dry chips and vent open all the way. But I started to worry because I realized that there's no smoke to be seen in the window. At the same time I thought that maybe the smoke I was getting was more billowing white than thin blue. I do have the water pan 3/4 full. So I closed the vent to about halfway and began to notice droplets on the glass. Having read here that droplets are no good I opened the vent up all the way again. The color looks good and they haven't come off yet so I don't yet know about the flavor but what about the smoke itself? It isn't too thick as I normally think of creosote laden smoke to be, but it is white to grey, and not blue as the photo that was posted earlier shows. It's a beautiful and warm somewhat humid day here, does that matter?  I'll have them off soon to test the flavor. Also I used fewer chips and added them about every 45 mins for the first two hours. And I checked once to make sure the chip tray had whitish ashes and not just blackened chips. The last thing is that smoke that comes out between loads looks the same as the smoke that comes out continually even after there have been no chips added for 1.5 hours. 
I assumed this was vapor and not smoke, but I realize I can't tell the difference. Should the two types of smoke look very different. Btw the smoker was heated to 225• with dry chips for about half an hour before I added the chicken. Thanks All!


----------



## doczod

You need to feed it.  They like meat!  And what the heck, if your going to smoke in it anyway, you might as well cook something.


----------



## doczod

I tried something a little different last night.  I decided to so some beef jerky because my brother-in-law loves it and has never had home made beef jerky.  This time I opened the vent all the way so the moisture in the meat would be drawn out of the smoker and I couldn't believe how much smoke came out of this thing.  It billowed inside the smoker and had a nice blue, even smoke coming out of the vent.  Much more smoke than I've seen before.  Now I don't know what to do, because the meat will dry out quicker with the vent open, but I get more smoke.  Guess I'll just have to experiment.  Another good reason to cook up my favorite foods!


----------



## captturbo

There are lots of "tricks" you can do to keep the  smoke coming if you are staying with the smoker. I learned with mine to not soak the chips for long. They take too long to get smoke from them if I soak them for a half hour or more. I soak them for no more then five minutes. You can keep some dry chips on hand to get nearly instant smoke or you can mix the soaked and dry chips when re-loading.

I only use a few chips at a time when I'm sitting by the beer er ... ah.. I mean the smoker. I have to add chips every 10 to 15 minutes doing this but I get very consistent smoke. Loading the chip tray will give you longer smoke periods but I find that I risk periods of too heavy smoke doing that.

A tip to hasten smoke after adding chips is to pull the loading canister out slightly. It seals pretty well when pushed in tightly. Pull it back a tinch and you let more oxygen hit the fire box. You can coordinate this burst of oxygen by adjusting the vent as well.

I'm sure at some point I will get one of those dandy AMAZN dust/pellet doohickeys but finances are tight so I make my own chip products with my wood chipper and I doubt that my chips would burn properly in that thing. Sure would be nice to enjoy the hours of steady smoke it offers though.


----------



## psouthwick

The vent on the Master Built is not a super tight I keep it closed when doing a butt. It worked well.


----------



## psouthwick

This page is in the master manual I just purhcased... It also say not to soak the chips...


----------



## doczod

I ordered the AMNPS this past Friday, and it showed up TODAY (Monday)!  Wow, these guys are fast shippers!  I can't wait to try it.  I'm very impressed with the MES40 smoker and everything I've cooked in it has come out great.  I think the addition of the AMNPS should send it over the top.  I've still got my New Braufels chimney smoker that I converted to natural gas a few years ago and it works well also because of the electronic controls, but I'm getting more use out of the MES40.  With the AMNPS, I should be able to use both and be able to cook large quantities if needed.


----------



## csparker

Thanks Capt. Turbo!


----------



## Bearcarver

Doczod said:


> I ordered the AMNPS this past Friday, and it showed up TODAY (Monday)!  Wow, these guys are fast shippers!  I can't wait to try it.  I'm very impressed with the MES40 smoker and everything I've cooked in it has come out great.  I think the addition of the AMNPS should send it over the top.  I've still got my New Braufels chimney smoker that I converted to natural gas a few years ago and it works well also because of the electronic controls, but I'm getting more use out of the MES40.  With the AMNPS, I should be able to use both and be able to cook large quantities if needed.


It Will !!   
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Bear


----------



## billyj571

DOMAPOI said:


> Tod, is that a biscuit cutter on top of your MES? Is that to block the vent because there is so much creosote on the on the vent it doesn't move any more?


I think that's a cover to keep the little critters out of the smoker when not using it.


----------



## pignit

DOMAPOI said:


> Tod, is that a biscuit cutter on top of your MES? Is that to block the vent because there is so much creosote on the on the vent it doesn't move any more?


That's a lid to a smoke daddy.......


----------



## Bearcarver

PignIt said:


> That's a lid to a smoke daddy.......




LOL---Good one Dave. I kinda doubt that.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





That's one of Todd's smoker.

Bear


----------



## tjohnson

It's a magnet that came with a hook on it for hangin' junk off the fridge.

I took off the hook, and installed an old cabinet knob.

I use the magnet to hold down a piece of paper to check the draft while testing different pellets at different temps in the smoker.

It's also handy for holding on fans or other attachments during testing new ideas for products.

This is my "Test Smoker" and needs a good cleaning!!

TJ


----------



## captturbo

csparker said:


> Thanks Capt. Turbo!


You are most welcome. Enjoy that smoker! I'm trying to get some chicken leg quarters defrosted for my afternoon smoke. I'm ready to go but the chicken is not. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   I plan to smoke with peanut shells. I have found it to be a great smoke for chicken or fish. Peanut shells make smoke fast and easy too so I use mostly lightly soaked shells with a few dry standing by for when or if I notice the smoke has thinned out too much.


----------



## csparker

CaptTurbo said:


> You are most welcome. Enjoy that smoker! I'm trying to get some chicken leg quarters defrosted for my afternoon smoke. I'm ready to go but the chicken is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I plan to smoke with peanut shells. I have found it to be a great smoke for chicken or fish. Peanut shells make smoke fast and easy too so I use mostly lightly soaked shells with a few dry standing by for when or if I notice the smoke has thinned out too much.



That's a new one to me. I'll try that. Does it work best with chicken, or would you try that with anything else?  Btw, I smoked some pork sirloin chops and they came out perfectly. I took your advice and fed the chip loader fewer chips, but a bit more often, every half hour or so when I noticed the smoke had died out. Oddly, they got to 160• pretty quickly, about 75 mins or so. Anyway, thanks, it was good eating.


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## captturbo

You can smoke other meats with peanut hulls and I sometimes do use them on beef and pork but peanut smoke is on the mild side so I mix some hickory, apple, cherry or sea grape with them when doing that. I smoked some burgers tonight with sea grape alone and it was a mellow smoke flavor. Milder then hickory.

I was adding chips probably every 15 minutes. I could have extended the time periods by adding more each time but I enjoy fiddlin' when I'm sitting with the smoker and I get better and more consistent smoke using the smaller amounts and short intervals.


----------



## goose57

do you soak your chips?

ron


----------



## csparker

CaptTurbo said:


> You can smoke other meats with peanut hulls and I sometimes do use them on beef and pork but peanut smoke is on the mild side so I mix some hickory, apple, cherry or sea grape with them when doing that. I smoked some burgers tonight with sea grape alone and it was a mellow smoke flavor. Milder then hickory.
> 
> I was adding chips probably every 15 minutes. I could have extended the time periods by adding more each time but I enjoy fiddlin' when I'm sitting with the smoker and I get better and more consistent smoke using the smaller amounts and short intervals.


Well I got a small raise, effective next week so I went ahead and ordered the A-Maze-N pellet smoker, along with extra dust and pellets.  I hope this gives me the consistency I'm looking for.  I like fiddlin' if I have time, but I wanna try a brisket in the MES, and I imagine I'll be glad to be able to do other things while it's getting yummy!  I'm thinking about a cherry/hickory mixture... any thoughts?


----------



## Bearcarver

csparker said:


> Well I got a small raise, effective next week so I went ahead and ordered the A-Maze-N pellet smoker, along with extra dust and pellets.  I hope this gives me the consistency I'm looking for.  I like fiddlin' if I have time, but I wanna try a brisket in the MES, and I imagine I'll be glad to be able to do other things while it's getting yummy!  I'm thinking about a cherry/hickory mixture... any thoughts?


You won't believe how easy everything will become!

Bear


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## mike cannata

Ya me to I was also confused on what to do though I just got my smoker about 1 week ago anc smoed some babyback ribs with some chicken wings.I had the vent mostly closed the first 3 hrs. after wrapping

ribs in foil with no smoke cooked 4 2 more hoursat this point I opened the vent about three quarters of the way,the last hour I took out of foil and put ribs in a rib rack and sauced them.

Wow they turned out Great the meat just fell off the bone with the perfect amount of smoke.by the way I took off the chicken wings after about 20 on 1 side 25 on on the other put on my bbq sauce and another 25min.(I used just reg. sized chips mixed with almost a sawdust (a very small sized chip)) and didnt have any problem with the smoke levels.


----------



## geosmokr59

I smoked a 15 lb turkey on Tuesday night.  Stuffed it with apples, onions, celery, and some spices, sewed it up and smoked it at 230 for 3-4 hours with the vent closed.  I have the old 30" MES and am waiting for the retro that came today.  To finish, I used JD oak and apple wood.  Then raised the temp to 240 with apple wood only.  Turned the temp down to 230 at 12:00 am and went to bed until it was finished.  Two things I have learned with the old smaller smoke box.  One is that the wood seems to have different levels of humidity.  The apple will just turn black and smoke a little bit and the JD oak will smolder and ash.  Again this is with the smaller old chip box.  I will install the retro tomorrow and relearn how to use it.  The turkey was tender and delicious as always.  The vent was not completely close at first about 1/6-1/8 open.  The second thing is that with this smaller chip box, I have to put the meat in (and wood chips) and bring it to temp from the beginning.  This may be what Bearcarver is talking about with time 13 min.  

This is how you know if it is worth it and it works (whether you think you are getting enough smoke or meat dryness or whatever) Does The Food Get Eaten?.  The last brisket I did my wife couldn't cut it faster the the daughters were eating it.  The kids can't wait till I smoke and there are never enough ribs.  With that said, I guess I am doing something right.  That is the bottom line.


----------



## captturbo

Sounds like you are doing fine with it. I'm sure you will like the new smoke box better though.

Merry Christmas to all.


----------



## geosmokr59

Just got my retro kit before Christmas and smoked some salmon.  Lots more smoke and faster than I have been use to.  Great tasting and thanks to Master Built.  Smoked salmon at 190 for an hour in Alder.  Great.  Everybody liked it.


----------



## steveonvashon

I have a MES30 that I got at Cabela's in mid-2010; the instruction manual (which I also downloaded from their website) does not have this 'Let's get started' page, and more importantly, the smoker does not have any controllable vent that I can locate.  There is a small hole (1/2" diameter or so) at the upper rear corner of the smoker, and a small hole at the very bottom of the smoker (which appears to be for the drainage into the drip pan) -- but there does not seem to be any adjustable vent that I can find -- am I getting blind in my old age??  Thanks!


----------



## domapoi

Not a vision problem just a model problem. Look at post #75 of this thread and you will see what the vent looks like on the models that have it.


----------



## redclaymud

Wow.  This is fun.  Tempers have certainly flared. 

I've got the MES 40"  Until yesterday, I couldn't get near enough smoke out of it.  Otherwise, it cooked everything to temperature in a very predictable and not too smoky way.  Wood chips in the side door only lasted 30-45 minutes, so there was never enough smoke to call it a set it and leave it kind of smoker.

But the arguments have carried way too much beyond that.  There's too much trash talk going on to recommend any particular product, but there are solutions on this site that will make your MES purr like a kitten if you give it the chance.  We are not the guys that received your $300+ bucks for the unit. 

We're just a user support group and I'm thankful for every member . . . even the newbees, because it makes me remember so much I have forgotten.

.


----------



## doczod

I have been using my MES 40 for about a year now and think I've got it doing exactly what I want it to do.  The one thing I figured out is that if you open up the vent all the way, the heat will escape faster than if you close it off, but the up-side of this is that this causes the burner to stay on more which in turn burns the wood chips better and causes more smoke.  The addition of the AMNPS made all the difference in the smoke.  I place it down low on the bottem rack (laterally across from the burner) and just lay a piece of foil across the top to maks sure that none of the juices/fat/grease from the meat drip into the pellets.  I also use the pellets in the smoke burner and have gotten amazing results from the unit.  For Christmas, I smoked a 19 pound Beef Rib Roast (prime rib) for 4 hours at 230 degrees using cherry pellets.  I then finished it off on the grill for about 15 minutes at a high temp to crisp it up a little.  Let it rest for 30 minutes loosely covered and it was the best prime rib we've ever had.  My neighbor came by late (too late for dinner) so we gave her some to take home.  At midnight, she called to tell me that this prime rib was "orgasmic".  She said it was the best she ever had.  I've cooked just about everything in this unit and can't find any fault with it especially with the addition of the AMNPS.  Between that and the Thermopen, I'm one happy smoker!


----------



## csparker

Just wondering since you mentioned the Thermapen...I love mine too...what temperature did the roast get to before you removed it from the smoker after 4 hours?  I found such great prices on prime rib roasts after Christmas that I bought one, but have never cooked one before.  I also have an AMNPS, but am concerned that it may be easy to overcook.  I like the idea of afterwards crisping it in the oven, but again am a little fearful of overcooking it while I get the color I want.  My guess would be to remove it from the MES at around 100, and get it out of the oven at 115, crisped up or not.  Am I on the right track?


----------



## csparker

Doczod said:


> I have been using my MES 40 for about a year now and think I've got it doing exactly what I want it to do.  The one thing I figured out is that if you open up the vent all the way, the heat will escape faster than if you close it off, but the up-side of this is that this causes the burner to stay on more which in turn burns the wood chips better and causes more smoke.  The addition of the AMNPS made all the difference in the smoke.  I place it down low on the bottem rack (laterally across from the burner) and just lay a piece of foil across the top to maks sure that none of the juices/fat/grease from the meat drip into the pellets.  I also use the pellets in the smoke burner and have gotten amazing results from the unit.  For Christmas, I smoked a 19 pound Beef Rib Roast (prime rib) for 4 hours at 230 degrees using cherry pellets.  I then finished it off on the grill for about 15 minutes at a high temp to crisp it up a little.  Let it rest for 30 minutes loosely covered and it was the best prime rib we've ever had.  My neighbor came by late (too late for dinner) so we gave her some to take home.  At midnight, she called to tell me that this prime rib was "orgasmic".  She said it was the best she ever had.  I've cooked just about everything in this unit and can't find any fault with it especially with the addition of the AMNPS.  Between that and the Thermopen, I'm one happy smoker!


Hi All,

Just wondering since you mentioned the Thermapen...I love mine too...what temperature did the roast get to before you removed it from the smoker after 4 hours?  I found such great prices on prime rib roasts after Christmas that I bought one, but have never cooked one before.  I also have an AMNPS, but am concerned that it may be easy to overcook.  I like the idea of afterwards crisping it in the oven, but again am a little fearful of overcooking it while I get the color I want.  My guess would be to remove it from the MES at around 100, and get it out of the oven at 115, crisped up or not.  Am I on the right track?


----------



## geosmokr59

My MES 30 is putting out great amounts of smoke after the retro fit that the company sent me.  Family just loves the meat and bacon rapped peppers, mushrooms were not a big hit.  It doesn't matter where the vent is set, I still get plenty of smoke and when open 1/4 the meat is moist and not dry.  Very happy and am planning a brisket smoke later this month.  Any good recipes out there?


----------



## elkmaster101

WOW!!!!!

 Thank the Smoke Gods i'm just a beginner.

    my greatest concern is that it gets done- and done properly.

 i have made mistakes in my attemps at smoking.

 and everyone here has helped me understand my opertunities for righting the problems.

 thanks again to all.


----------



## doczod

I pulled the Prime Rib at 125 degrees knowing it would increase some.  This is the first time I've done a Prime Rib in a smoker so it was a bit of an experiment.  As it turned out, 125 was right on the money.  It got up to between 135 to 145 in different spots because it was thinner in one are and thicker in another.  It was absolutely fantastic.  By the way, I only filled half of the AMNPS with pellets because I didn't want too much smoke.  My father-in-law is an 86 year old Englishman who made the comment "Now THIS is a meal".  Coming from him (and he likes his beef rare/med-rare), that was the best compliment he's ever given anyone regarding food!


----------



## elkmaster101

CONGRATS.

 yep, its great to know you got it done right.r


----------



## csparker

Doczod said:


> I pulled the Prime Rib at 125 degrees knowing it would increase some.  This is the first time I've done a Prime Rib in a smoker so it was a bit of an experiment.  As it turned out, 125 was right on the money.  It got up to between 135 to 145 in different spots because it was thinner in one are and thicker in another.  It was absolutely fantastic.  By the way, I only filled half of the AMNPS with pellets because I didn't want too much smoke.  My father-in-law is an 86 year old Englishman who made the comment "Now THIS is a meal".  Coming from him (and he likes his beef rare/med-rare), that was the best compliment he's ever given anyone regarding food!




Thanks very much Doczoc for the info!


----------



## burnrose

I'm new here and am learning, but I just have to say this thread was just way too amuzing! lmao

I learned some things from both sides by the way... :)


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## usmsao

The 3-2-1 method for spare ribs and the 2-2-1 method for babybacks has worked great for me.  I got my 30" MES for Christmas and have smoked ribs, chicken, pork butt and beef roast.  The ribs have been my best.  I fixed both spareribes and babybacks for a youth group superbowl party and when I took them out of the foil, they were falling apart as I put them back on the rack for the last hour.  I have never adjusted my vent postion.  It is probably 1/4" to 3/8" open.  If you are unfamilar with the 3-2-1 and 2-2-1 method, see below:

*Smoking the Ribs*

*Note*: Ribs are NOT cooked to any hard temperature or time .. they are done when they get tender enough and not a second before. Be willing to deviate from the estimated cooking time if they are not tender enough.

*The "3"*

The "3" in this method is the first 3 hours where the ribs will be directly on the grate and taking on the smoke flavoring from the wood that is smoking. Leave the door closed during this step and just make sure the heat stays as steady and close to 225 degrees F as possible.

*The "2"*

The "2" is where the ribs get tender. Once the initial 3 hours are over, Wrap each rack of ribs in a large piece of heavy duty aluminum foil and just before closing it up, pour about 1/4 cup of apple juice or other liquid such as beer, water, Dr. Pepper, etc. into the bottom of the foil. Close up the foil around each rack of ribs and lay the wrapped ribs back on the grate for 2 hours.

*The "1"*

The "1" in this method stands for the final hour in cooking the ribs. When the "2" is complete, remove the foil wrapped ribs from the smoker, remove the foil and place the ribs on the grate with NO foil for their final hour.

*To sum it up more concisely:*

3 hours directly on the smoker grate

Then..

2 hours wrapped in foil on the smoker grate

Then..

1 final hour unwrapped and back on the smoker grate to finish up

*How to Serve the Ribs*

Let the ribs rest for about 10-15 minutes for best results then lay them bone side up and slice and serve immediately.


----------



## thomc89

I've done pork buts twice in the same smoker and have turned out great.  If you are going to pull it apart, the temp needs to be about 210.  I've always put water in my pan and smoked them around 12 hrs.  Smoked for 5 or 6 hrs then foiled them for the rest of the time.

Good luck

Tom


----------



## geosmokr59

I really like what you wrote.  It makes a lot of sense.  Where I live there is no humidity and closing the vent keeps the meat moist and tender as the smoke flavor is great.


----------



## geosmokr59

I like my Damper 1/3 open.


----------



## larryb

I have the same smoker.  For items that need to be moist inside, make sure to keep the water pan full of water or apple juice or your choice.  The vent needs to be open about 1/4 open for most smoking to get circulation. 

one thing to remember is that the unit won't work unless the timer is set.  and only heats while the timer is running. 

once the ribs or any food reach the 140 degree point, they no longer absorb smoke flavor.  so at that point you might as well wrap in foil with a little sauce or apple juice to maintain the moist interior. 

If golden brown is a requirement, i have taken to taking the food out of the smoker before it reaches temp and finishing on a very hot grill. 

Make sure to buy Jeff's rub.  i have tried lots of commerical versions, but Jeff's is a great all purpose rub. 

good luck


----------



## eman

LarryB said:


> I have the same smoker.  For items that need to be moist inside, make sure to keep the water pan full of water or apple juice or your choice.  The vent needs to be open about 1/4 open for most smoking to get circulation.
> 
> one thing to remember is that the unit won't work unless the timer is set.  and only heats while the timer is running.
> 
> once the ribs or any food reach the 140 degree point, they no longer absorb smoke flavor.  so at that point you might as well wrap in foil with a little sauce or apple juice to maintain the moist interior.
> 
> If golden brown is a requirement, i have taken to taking the food out of the smoker before it reaches temp and finishing on a very hot grill.
> 
> Make sure to buy Jeff's rub.  i have tried lots of commerical versions, but Jeff's is a great all purpose rub.
> 
> good luck


The smoke ring quits forming in meat at around 140 degrees, As long as smoke is being applied to meat it will take on smoke flavor. If it quit taking on smoke at 140 degrees then you could cook something to 140 degrees in the oven and then throw it in the smoker and it would not get any smoke flavor.


----------



## sodbuster

I've been using Masterbuilt 30's (I'm on my second one) for 7 years and always leave the vent wide open and have excellent results.


----------



## redclaymud

You don't get a whole bunch of smoke ring from an electric smoker.  That's what makes them so great for doing Chicken, since to the novice, the red of the ring is an indication of undercooked rather than a smoke ring.

With my 40" Mastercraft I leave the top vent wide open.  The box is so well sealed that to have any smoke at all requires all the burning oxygen it can get from the top and chip tray.  I've tried the Amazing Smoker with the unit and it works fine as long as I provide extra burning oxygen.  I solved this in a low-tech manner by squeezing in the thick part of a kitchen fork in the lower door.

But, help is on the way from Mastercraft.  If you have a fairly new similar unit with just a 4-5" firebox they have a retrofit kit to improve smoking capabilities.  I'll be doing a review of the kit, comparing old to new, as soon as I receive it this next week.


----------



## rxak1031

I always smoke with vents fully opened and have no problem with smoke lines or tenderness of meats.


----------



## burksdon

I think "NOTHERNSMOKE" really needed some help and didn't get it.  Heres my imput, You just purchased a new product and it needs getting used to.

1. Temperture control is critical. Temp in unit and temp in meat. I use two digital themoters, one for box temp and one for internal meat temp.

2. You should keep top or cheminey vent open full or almost full.  bottoms vents start with 1/2 open and adjust small amounts for box temp control, every 15/30 minutes until temp is where you want it.

3. With vents closed as you stated I would expect the same results. Must circulate the air/heat/smoke.

4. Smoking is a slow process, don't try to rush, and TEMPERTURE IS BIGGEST FACTOR.


----------



## redclaymud

I received the MasterBuilt wood chip bin upgrade.  Wow, it's huge.  Same footprint as before and when assembled and in position, it looks identical to the original, so there's still room for the Amazin Smoker on the sidebar.. 

The difference comes when you pull out that mammoth chip tray.  I'll bet it will take 2 cups of chips easy . . . maybe more.  Thinking now to plug in the chip tray just as I add the meat. since it slides in smoothly.  I'll use the half cup chip loader to restock once the smoke dies.  One thing for sure, the wood chips are going to burn up faster, so I doubt we can increase our smoking time 4x, but maybe 2x.  That's a good heavy first hour of smoke.

Pictures to follow in a separate thread. 

Oh, by the way, never fill your wood chip tray with Pellets.  Particularly after just cleaning your smoker.  Trust me on this one folks.  I don't care how much you are out of smoking wood and I was totally out.  Winter deadfall would be a better choice, even if you were a blind man with frozen fingers gathering.  There will be no Q-View of the resulting need to re-clean my soot filled smoker.  The fire got too hot.  Trust me by saying, I owe the Barnardsville Volunteer Fire Department a small fundraiser for more reasons than one.  My thanks to the volunteer that felt he had a need to stop in and be sure things were right.


----------



## hkeiner

> The difference comes when you pull out that mammoth chip tray.  I'll bet it will take 2 cups of chips easy . . . maybe more.


In my opinion, the problem with the small chip tray was not so much that it was too small but that it did not smoke as well as the large chip tray assembly. The small tray had an extra piece of sheet metal between the element and the chip tray, limiting how hot the chip tray got when the element was on.  Loading up the large chip tray with more chips (just because there is room for more chips) can be a mistake and result in too thick of smoke. I modified my small chip tray by removing the extra piece of metal and it worked very well. I subsequently got an AMNPS, which works even better, making the modification of small tray or replacing with large tray inconsequential. Just my experience...


----------



## domapoi

redclaymud said:


> I received the MasterBuilt wood chip bin upgrade.  Wow, it's huge.  Same footprint as before and when assembled and in position, it looks identical to the original, so there's still room for the Amazin Smoker on the sidebar..
> 
> The difference comes when you pull out that mammoth chip tray.  I'll bet it will take 2 cups of chips easy . . . maybe more.  Thinking now to plug in the chip tray just as I add the meat. since it slides in smoothly.  I'll use the half cup chip loader to restock once the smoke dies.




You don't want to add any more chip in the tray than you did before the upgrade. The upgrade allows the wood in the tray to have access to more heat from the heating element and to spread out a little more. Just continue the way you did before using the chip loader and you will do just fine. More wood will just cause more and thicker smoke instead of the desired "Thin Blue Smoke" that you should have.


----------



## redclaymud

You must have a chip tray different than my old one.  My old tray is about half the width of the tray and no extra piece of metal to remove . . . adding chips to the right side would cause them to fall right on top of the heating element.

I've wondered about that, since the slide-in tray looks like it's been modified to make the tray smaller.  You'll see it all in my post.  I added it to my review of the product

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/products/masterbuilt-40-electric-smoker-with-window

Just look for my warm and disarming smile . . . that would be me. 


hkeiner said:


> In my opinion, the problem with the small chip tray was not so much that it was too small but that it did not smoke as well as the large chip tray assembly. The small tray had an extra piece of sheet metal between the element and the chip tray, limiting how hot the chip tray got when the element was on.  Loading up the large chip tray with more chips (just because there is room for more chips) can be a mistake and result in too thick of smoke. I modified my small chip tray by removing the extra piece of metal and it worked very well. I subsequently got an AMNPS, which works even better, making the modification of small tray or replacing with large tray inconsequential. Just my experience...


----------



## hkeiner

> You must have a chip tray different than my old one


I guess so. My small chip tray worked just fine after removing the extra piece of metal. If there is another design verson of the "small" chip tray that does NOT have the extra piece of metal but instead a different design deficiencey, that might explain the determination  of many to replace it with a large chip tray instead of just doing the simple modification. I was alway puzzled about that.


----------



## vosser78

I have been going half open with this same smoker. I had trouble the first time also, it smoker a lot heaver than my last brinkman. I also only been smoking my ribs 2 to 2 1/2 hrs the rest is cook time without smoke.


----------



## vosser78

I hear a lot about Jeff's rub. What makes it so good? I'm half tempted to try it.


----------



## domapoi

redclaymud said:


> You must have a chip tray different than my old one.  My old tray is about half the width of the tray and no extra piece of metal to remove . . . adding chips to the right side would cause them to fall right on top of the heating element.
> 
> I've wondered about that, since the slide-in tray looks like it's been modified to make the tray smaller.  You'll see it all in my post.  I added it to my review of the product
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/products/masterbuilt-40-electric-smoker-with-window
> 
> Just look for my warm and disarming smile . . . that would be me.







hkeiner said:


> I guess so. My small chip tray worked just fine after removing the extra piece of metal. If there is another design verson of the "small" chip tray that does NOT have the extra piece of metal but instead a different design deficiencey, that might explain the determination  of many to replace it with a large chip tray instead of just doing the simple modification. I was alway puzzled about that.


The extra piece of metal was not on the tray itself, it was part of the smoke box that the tray slides into. If you look at the video at Masterbuilt that shows how to install the tray upgrade you can see as plain as day the sheet of metal that was between the heating element and the chip tray. If you watch the whole video you will notice that the new smoke box does not have that piece of sheet metal between the heating element and the chip tray. 

So you don't have to go looking for the link to this video, here it is:

http://www.masterbuilt.com/video/sept2010/smokeretrokit.wmv

This piece of sheet metal that was between the old chip tray and the heating element prevented the chip tray from getting enough heat to effectively heat the tray enough to always get the chips smoking properly.


----------



## hkeiner

> The extra piece of metal was not on the tray itself, it was part of the smoke box that the tray slides into.


Yes, that is right. My earlier comment was perhaps a bit ambiguious as to what this piece metal was attached to. For those still unclear about this, here is a link to the mod that removes this piece of metal from the small chip tray assembly.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/98890/masterbuilt-upgrade-kit-inspired-mod-with-q-view


----------



## smokinhusker

I leave the vent fully open on my MES 40. And I use pellets 98% of the time with great satisfaction and longer smoking time.


----------



## vosser78

Are the pellets cost effective and where do you get them?


----------



## redclaymud

I'm sorry.  I'm looking and re-ran the video three times but just don't see it.

The sheet of metal from my old chip box was from the bottom of the chip box.  Same goes for the new one and I didn't notice any differences in the video.  If you find your bottom tray going in under the heat coils, you may have a problem.  Make sure it inserts above the coils.

I swear.  No parts left over.  No extra piece of metal.  Have you called customer support?  1-800-489-1581.  They have been more than helpful for me.


DOMAPOI said:


> The extra piece of metal was not on the tray itself, it was part of the smoke box that the tray slides into. If you look at the video at Masterbuilt that shows how to install the tray upgrade you can see as plain as day the sheet of metal that was between the heating element and the chip tray. If you watch the whole video you will notice that the new smoke box does not have that piece of sheet metal between the heating element and the chip tray.
> 
> So you don't have to go looking for the link to this video, here it is:
> 
> http://www.masterbuilt.com/video/sept2010/smokeretrokit.wmv
> 
> This piece of sheet metal that was between the old chip tray and the heating element prevented the chip tray from getting enough heat to effectively heat the tray enough to always get the chips smoking properly.


----------



## domapoi

redclaymud said:


> I'm sorry.  I'm looking and re-ran the video three times but just don't see it.
> 
> The sheet of metal from my old chip box was from the bottom of the chip box.  Same goes for the new one and I didn't notice any differences in the video.  If you find your bottom tray going in under the heat coils, you may have a problem.  Make sure it inserts above the coils.
> 
> I swear.  No parts left over.  No extra piece of metal.  Have you called customer support?  1-800-489-1581.  They have been more than helpful for me.


The piece of metal is a spot welded on part of the smoke box. It is not a removable part and will not come apart from the old small smoke box. If you did not see the metal that would be between the heating element and the old chip tray, then you need glasses. Because as I said before, it is "AS PLAIN AS DAY" in the video.


----------



## hkeiner

> The piece of metal is a welding on part of the smoke box. It is not a removable part and will not come apart from the old small smoke box.


The metal can be removed, it just takes a bit of unscrewing, prying, and cutting with a hacksaw. The modification is  mentioned in a previous post on this thread (along with a link to the original mod thread). Not trying to talk anyone in to doing this mod, just pointing out to those reading this thread that it can be easily done if desired.


----------



## redclaymud

Sorry for your frustration.
 


DOMAPOI said:


> The piece of metal is a spot welded on part of the smoke box. It is not a removable part and will not come apart from the old small smoke box. If you did not see the metal that would be between the heating element and the old chip tray, then you need glasses. Because as I said before, it is "AS PLAIN AS DAY" in the video.


----------



## stovebolt

This is the piece of metal DOMAPOI is referring to, the piece with the holes in it ( I put the holes there ).








  This is the original smoke box. This piece of metal is the main reason the wood doesn't smoke well because it blocks too much heat from it. Several have removed this piece but I just modified it to let more heat through. 

  This actually worked better than the "retro-fit kit".  With the AMNPS non of this matters much. It is nice though to 

have a working smoke box for quick smokes.

 Chuck


----------



## itzmeagain

[=Just for your amusement:][/]

:yahoo: I am new to smokers and just bought the MES. I have smoked a couple of times. I read this thread intently for a couple of hours and during that time the vent - or whatever else you might call it must have gone from zero open to 100% open a hundred times! I guess I'll find my own preference by t&e!

Good reading though - thanks to all. :grilling_smilie:


----------



## smokedhawk

I also have a master built and for my ribs I had the vent opened less than a quarter of the way open - I also set the temp at 225 and used the 3-2-1 method with a little variatiion  - 3 smoke -2 wrapped with less liquid - 1 1/2 smoked 1/2 grill they turned out great good luck next time


----------



## smokesavor

Just got my first smoker, and I'm a bit confused.... sound familiar?! :-)

My new MES 30, model 20070210, only has a small 'vent' hole, maybe 1/2" round, in the upper right side of the back panel. I was looking to do a soup can or chimney mod as many have suggested, but it doesn't seem possible with this unit. Is this this the only venting I'll need? There is NO damper adjustment, just a hole, which is always open. Also, will one of the 'add on' smoker boxes work with what I expect will be fairly low air flow provided by the small hole?

Any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks


----------



## Bearcarver

SmokeSavor said:


> Just got my first smoker, and I'm a bit confused.... sound familiar?! :-)
> 
> My new MES 30, model 20070210, only has a small 'vent' hole, maybe 1/2" round, in the upper right side of the back panel. I was looking to do a soup can or chimney mod as many have suggested, but it doesn't seem possible with this unit. Is this this the only venting I'll need? There is NO damper adjustment, just a hole, which is always open. Also, will one of the 'add on' smoker boxes work with what I expect will be fairly low air flow provided by the small hole?
> 
> Any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Thanks


Maybe someone else can help you---I never saw an MES with only a half inch round vent in the top right side,

I know I tried to use a soup can over my exhaust vent, for a wind breaker, but the cold PA air caused it to form condensation in the can, and dripping in my smoker.

Bear


----------



## smoke slinger

I have the 30" and I leave my top vent full open at all times and works great


----------



## smokesavor

Thanks for the info... Great group!

Quick update on my "ventless" MEB 30 I went ahead and fired it up to season the smoker. During the final 45 minutes (per the enclosed instructions) I added wood chips, and lo and behold, I've got smoke! Smoke comes out thru the tiny vent hole, as well as around the door, so I THINK I'm ok. Still, I wonder about the lack of a real vent, with some sort of baffle. I really thought SOME sort of baffle was desireable to regulate the amount of air passing thru the smoker-? But.. Since this model doesn't have any way to adjust the air-flow, guess I'll get some meat and give it a try tomorrow.

If anyone has a similar model, I'd love to hear from you. I'm really interested in some sort of smoker box (opposed to the standard chip tray) but I'm worried there won't be enough air flowing thru this thing-?? If anyone has any experience, let me know. And I'll post again after I actually smoke something tomorrow & will report back with the results! (I'm guessing I'll need to add wood chips periodically?)

Thanks again,
Tony


----------



## smoke slinger

I had smoke coming out from around the door and I tighten the latch on the door and it stopped. Just need to keep a tight seal around the door.


----------



## irishpride114

I have the 40" s/s gen 2 model. This is how I do my vent in regards to brisket and pork shoulders.

When I first turn it on, usually I go ahead and stick the meat in it at the same time. But I keep the vent wide open till the first smoking cycle is complete. Then I keep it at half open for the rest of the following smoke cycles. After I smoke for 6 hours I stop using wood chips completely, then go wide open for the remaining cook time.

But I will mention next time I smoke anything, I am going to smoke with wood chips for the entire cook time. I have heard that with controlled heat and smoke, you can smoke the whole time. But me and my family love the taste of smoke. Hope that helps.


----------



## Bearcarver

irishpride114 said:


> I have the 40" s/s gen 2 model. This is how I do my vent in regards to brisket and pork shoulders.
> 
> When I first turn it on, usually I go ahead and stick the meat in it at the same time. But I keep the vent wide open till the first smoking cycle is complete. Then I keep it at half open for the rest of the following smoke cycles. After I smoke for 6 hours I stop using wood chips completely, then go wide open for the remaining cook time.
> 
> But I will mention next time I smoke anything, I am going to smoke with wood chips for the entire cook time. I have heard that with controlled heat and smoke, you can smoke the whole time. But me and my family love the taste of smoke. Hope that helps.


If you can keep that "light" smoke for that whole time, it sounds like a great plan to me. Just keep the smoke light.

Bear


----------



## smokesavor

SmokeSavor said:


> Thanks for the info... Great group!
> 
> Quick update on my "ventless" MEB 30 I went ahead and fired it up to season the smoker. During the final 45 minutes (per the enclosed instructions) I added wood chips, and lo and behold, I've got smoke! Smoke comes out thru the tiny vent hole, as well as around the door, so I THINK I'm ok. Still, I wonder about the lack of a real vent, with some sort of baffle. I really thought SOME sort of baffle was desireable to regulate the amount of air passing thru the smoker-? But.. Since this model doesn't have any way to adjust the air-flow, guess I'll get some meat and give it a try tomorrow.
> 
> If anyone has a similar model, I'd love to hear from you. I'm really interested in some sort of smoker box (opposed to the standard chip tray) but I'm worried there won't be enough air flowing thru this thing-?? If anyone has any experience, let me know. And I'll post again after I actually smoke something tomorrow & will report back with the results! (I'm guessing I'll need to add wood chips periodically?)
> 
> Thanks again,
> Tony


Another update on my 'ventless' smoker.

I used it over the weekend to smoke a rack of ribs. Used the recommended 3-2-1 method, and had to cut the time a little short, but they came out GREAT! The time was cut short due to the temp being higher than indicated on the dial (I've since 'calibrated' it with an oven thermometer... yeah, I know - shoulda done it BEFORE smoking the 1st time - I was anxious to SMOKE something!) :-)  BUT... I think the slightly higher temps (in the 235-250 range) allowed the chips in my MES 30 to burn better, and give me good smoke.

Then, on Sunday, I smoked a pork shoulder. I smoked it at 225, and the chips lasted a good 3 hours, which seemed long compared to the previous days session. This time, there was very little smoke, and when I pulled the chip tray (to empty & re-fill it) I had what looked like charcoal in the tray! Once I took the the 'charcoal' OUT of the smoker, they REALLY started smoking. So, I figure I am NOT getting enough air into the unit for the chips to burn/smoke effectively. The bad news is there is NO way to allow more air-flow, other than to start drilling holes in my smoker. Now, while I'm not adverse to that, it really seems like MB messed up by NOT putting a vent on the recent edition of their smoker! (Pork shoulder came out fine, by the way... not _quite_ as 'smokey' as I would have liked, but cooked perfectly!)

I sent an email to MB, but the upshot of this is I will probably need to do some 'modifying' of my smoker box to allow more air to flow thru it. The 'drain' hole in the bottom + the 1/2" vent in the top/back of the box does NOT allow sufficient air to flow through it. If anyone has done any mods to their (similar) smoker, Id' love to hear what you did & how it went! I'll post again when (if) I get info from MB... or if I decide to just start drilling & 'experimenting'!

Cheers,

Tony


----------



## smokesavor

Replying to my own post, great. :-) Hopefully, this can help anyone else with the same smoker/issues.

I just heard from MB - actually ended up calling them. They were quick to answer, and very friendly, so A+ for that. They tell me that this particular model (20070210) does NOT have a 'real' vent, and they also mentioned that it was designed to work best at 235 & above, which I can confirm since the first time I used it, it was running at 235-250. At lower temps, they suggest that I (ready for this?!) open the door occasionally to get more air into the box! Really?!? When I asked about drilling, they (of course) do NOT recommend it, but frankly, I think that's what I'll do. The other suggestion from MB was to limit the amount of liquid in the 'water' pan - they suggested only a cup or so of liquid, which would (supposedly) allow the wood chips to burn more effectively. I'm not convinced that will help much, but hey... I'll try it & report back.

In addition, I had a few emails back/forth w/Todd at A-Maze-N, and (as I've read on this forum) he was VERY cordial & helpful. He also thought a small hole should help to keep things smoking. So, if anyone has any suggestions, or any experience with 'modifying' this model, please let me know. Otherwise, I'm ready to lead the charge and start drilling! :-)

Thanks,
Tony


----------



## Bearcarver

SmokeSavor said:


> Replying to my own post, great. :-) Hopefully, this can help anyone else with the same smoker/issues.
> 
> I just heard from MB - actually ended up calling them. They were quick to answer, and very friendly, so A+ for that. They tell me that this particular model (20070210) does NOT have a 'real' vent, and they also mentioned that it was designed to work best at 235 & above, which I can confirm since the first time I used it, it was running at 235-250. At lower temps, they suggest that I (ready for this?!) open the door occasionally to get more air into the box! Really?!? When I asked about drilling, they (of course) do NOT recommend it, but frankly, I think that's what I'll do. The other suggestion from MB was to limit the amount of liquid in the 'water' pan - they suggested only a cup or so of liquid, which would (supposedly) allow the wood chips to burn more effectively. I'm not convinced that will help much, but hey... I'll try it & report back.
> 
> In addition, I had a few emails back/forth w/Todd at A-Maze-N, and (as I've read on this forum) he was VERY cordial & helpful. He also thought a small hole should help to keep things smoking. So, if anyone has any suggestions, or any experience with 'modifying' this model, please let me know. Otherwise, I'm ready to lead the charge and start drilling! :-)
> 
> Thanks,
> Tony


You could drill a small hole or two near where you put the AMNPS, to allow air flow by the AMNPS.

As for the top exhaust, I would try to find something you can open & close, similar to the one in the newer MES.

Hopefully someone who has a smoker just like yours can be of more help.

Bear


----------



## daveomak

Smokesaver, evening....  sounds like Masterbuilt cut down on the air flow to keep the chips from bursting into flame..... They had a problem with that...... Soooooo, black chips means you are making charcoal due to the lack of oxygen for a complete burn......   Just one more manufacturer making a poor designed smoker to compensate for a lack of good engineering.....   There's my 2 cents..... Dave


----------



## migraine

I think he has the analog version, that is what I have.

I drilled the top. back, left corner with a 3" hole saw and a 3" elbow fitting from Home Depot.  I also drilled a 2) 5/8" holes on the bottom, right, middle underneath the chip tray(where I use an amzn pellet tray. I use the piece of round sheet metal from the 3" home to block one of the 5/8" holes and I've had good success with lower temp smoking, but I just finished a tri tip and 1/3 of the pellets turned to charcoa(250* cooking temp for 1 3/4hrs+/-)and the meat seems a little bitter when I licked my fingers after taking the meat out.  So I think I need a little more air intake on higher temp smoking or do a mail box mod.

I'm resting the meat as "we speak" so we will see in 1/2 hr


----------



## migraine

see my post #159.  I should have sent it to you.

before I drilled the holes, lower temp smoking left too much moisture in the cabinet.  I also used a reasonable inexpensive silicone weather stripping from Home depot  $13-17. enough for two units.

I drilled out the back, top hole a little bit to get my temp probe though the hole.  The probe has a large threaded end with a nut.  This contols the PIDI bought on ebay that regulates the heating element down to below 100* and I monitor it when cold smokingcheese with no heat.  Works muy bueno

Just finished dinner on the tri tip.  pulled at 140 and rested for 15-20 min with almost no bleed-out and med/med-rare

no bitterness on the meat that I was fearing.  A little too mush salt on the rub, but it's still a learning process

btw, the blackened pellets burned out to grey powder after I took the meat out

if I can find the digital camera, I'll sent pics of the simple mods and the PID


----------



## russg

I always use mine with the vent wide open.


----------



## ewilli

tenderness.


----------



## joseph maiers

Guys, guys, guys - why all the back and forth - let's just give our helpful hints and move on! Each of us can take the info for what it is worth and everyone has their own ideas of what works best for them. My reason for searching this thread is to see if there is any way to tell if the creosote is building on the product? Will it taste different or look different? I have had my MES 30 for a year now and have done ribs, brisket, chicken, fish, butts, cheese in it here in central MN. I tend to stoke up the wood box pretty good and keep the damper about 1/2 way open - lots of smoke pouring out all the time - maybe because I love the smell 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






 - but is too much bad? I haven't had a bad smoke effort yet (from what the people eating it are telling me)


----------



## Bearcarver

Joseph Maiers said:


> Guys, guys, guys - why all the back and forth - let's just give our helpful hints and move on! Each of us can take the info for what it is worth and everyone has their own ideas of what works best for them. My reason for searching this thread is to see if there is any way to tell if the creosote is building on the product? Will it taste different or look different? I have had my MES 30 for a year now and have done ribs, brisket, chicken, fish, butts, cheese in it here in central MN. I tend to stoke up the wood box pretty good and keep the damper about 1/2 way open - lots of smoke pouring out all the time - maybe because I love the smell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - but is too much bad? I haven't had a bad smoke effort yet (from what the people eating it are telling me)


I would have to say the most obvious sign of creosote would be a burning or tingling sense on your tongue.

As for the going back & forth---There is probably a whole lot of Awesome info from many great smokers on this thread.

Bear


----------



## smokesavor

Yes, my questions & posts are based on the NEW 30" Analog model, which has NO adjustable vent, only a small (appx 1/2") hole in the upper right back.

Migraine - thanks for the info on your mods. I'm definitely going to do some drilling on mine to get more airflow. As it is, at temps under 235-250, the smoker is (mostly) making charcoal and not really producing as much smoke as it should. I guess if you run the smoker at 235 or higher (which is what MB suggested) it WILL smoke. But, from what I read here (& I hear from most other folks who have been smoking meats for any length of time) temps in the 215-225 range are preferred for many cuts/types of meat. I'll post updates on my mods, as I'm sure others with the same smoker will run in to similar issues.

Dave - I suppose MB _thought_ they were fixing a problem, but you're right... it was a poor 'fix'. After playing with the smoker, and smoking a couple of meats, I can say for SURE that there is not enough smoke being generated, certainly not in the 215-225 range. So, more oxygen is definitely needed. I have to wonder, why didn't MB just install a better dampening system, rather than simply cutting down (almost totally!) on the airflow by eliminating the vent? Couldn't have cost THAT much to 'fix' it properly. It's frustrating, but thanks to the helpful advice here, I know what needs to be done to fix my smoker so it 'breathes' a little better!

Thanks!
Tony... charging up his portable drill!


----------



## reinhard

Mythmaster, i have a 30inch Masterbuilt electric that i got as a Christmas gift last year [so i can make more stuff for my kids that gave it to me LOL]. I was looking for my manual and i recall the page you posted, so i know it was in the box it came in.  I read that when i "seasoned" the unit initialy. I however have not closed the vent as of yet on anything i have done. So perhapst like with many things, it depends on the persons tastes. Reinhard


----------



## mikeramsmokes

SmokeSavor said:


> Just got my first smoker, and I'm a bit confused.... sound familiar?! :-)
> 
> My new MES 30, model 20070210, only has a small 'vent' hole, maybe 1/2" round, in the upper right side of the back panel. I was looking to do a soup can or chimney mod as many have suggested, but it doesn't seem possible with this unit. Is this this the only venting I'll need? There is NO damper adjustment, just a hole, which is always open. Also, will one of the 'add on' smoker boxes work with what I expect will be fairly low air flow provided by the small hole?
> 
> Any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Thanks


FWIW, especially since I do not own the MB nor the SM160, but I recently used a Smokeshack SM160 for a cooking at 250F and it also has only a small hole on the top for exhaust. I used the A-maze-n wood pellets in the smoke box of the SM160. The pellets were fully consumed. The owner of the SM160 was very surprised at that. I was not since I have been running an AMNPS for a good while now. I was not disappointed by either the cook time nor taste. All this to say that maybe MB just went with a little different design on this one. However, I would think that the temp range has a lot to do with the size and W rating of the element, and the insulating characteristics of the cabinet. If my wood was not acting right, I would probably just try changing wood - or to pellets - or to dust.


----------



## hkeiner

Likely a Masterbuilt but not a MES model.  The MES term typically refers only to certain models.


----------



## Bearcarver

hkeiner said:


> Likely a Masterbuilt but not a MES model. The MES term typically refers only to certain models.


The MES stands for "Masterbuilt Electric Smokers", so it doesn't count their propane models, or anything not electric.

Bear


----------



## domapoi

The model he lists (20070210) is an MES (yes it is electric) but it is an analog "electric" smoker, not a digital. It has a control on the bottom left side of the smoker similar to what you would find on an electric skillet, with a big knob you turn to set the temp. It does not have the big vent on the top like the digital smokers do, just a small hole IN THE BACK near the top of the smoker. It also does not have a chip tray that is accessible from the outside, you have to open the door to access the chip tray and to add more chips. This unit also has legs that are bolted on to the bottom to raise it off the deck or ground.


----------



## dibzonribz

NorthernSmoke said:


> I picked up a Masterbuilt 30inch S/S smoker as a replacement smoker.  I had ribs to perfection in my old smoker but now I need to find my way again.
> 
> I noticed in the owner's manual, very little reference is made to position of vent for the smoker during use.  I believe it said to have completely open during jerky or fish and this is it.  I tried smoking three racks of ribs at 220F.  I had the vent completely closed and at 4hrs...  they were still gray and rubbery, I opened the vent wide open and the finally started to brown.  Not very good in the end.
> 
> Is there any advice with regards to vent position?  I have read a 1/16 inch to half to full open .
> 
> In my previous smoking experience, I have never wrapped anything in foil.  Am I missing something by not doing this?


----------



## dibzonribz

I've done chicken, ribs, and pork shoulder on the 30 inch smokehouse. As of this posting I just removed some spare ribs from the smokehouse after a six and a half hour smoke/cook at 220 degrees. I have always left the vent completely closed which still allows a sufficient amount of smoke to escape from both the vent area and the wood chip feeder area. I have achieved excellent results every time by using this method. I also use applewood chips and apple-juice in the water pan every time. In addition, I spray a mixture of apple-juice and apple cider vinegar on the meat about once every two hours or so.


----------



## Bearcarver

dibzonribz said:


> I've done chicken, ribs, and pork shoulder on the 30 inch smokehouse. As of this posting I just removed some spare ribs from the smokehouse after a six and a half hour smoke/cook at 220 degrees. I have always left the vent completely closed which still allows a sufficient amount of smoke to escape from both the vent area and the wood chip feeder area. I have achieved excellent results every time by using this method. I also use applewood chips and apple-juice in the water pan every time. In addition, I spray a mixture of apple-juice and apple cider vinegar on the meat about once every two hours or so.


Try opening that top exhaust vent all the way. I've been doing that for 4 years, as do most MES owners.

I guess you can get some good smokes with it closed, but sooner or later, you'll run into problems.

Bear


----------



## domapoi

Bearcarver said:


> Try opening that top exhaust vent all the way. I've been doing that for 4 years, as do most MES owners.
> 
> I guess you can get some good smokes with it closed, but sooner or later, you'll run into problems.
> 
> Bear


Yeah, like excessive Creosote build up on the interior of the smoker AND on the meat.


----------



## grampysbest

Without getting into some of the discussion on venting, I did pick up on a very useful tidbit regarding the loader..."If it's only a half drawer, and half of the dumper is blocked off, you should still be able to get the FREE retro-fix from Masterbuilt.".....  

I do cook at about half throttle and have had to put in new chips about every 45 minutes and part of the reason would appear to be that I do have a unit with half of the "Dumper" blocked.  I like the idea of being able to load up more chips! ( In this regard I have found that Masterbuilt is terrific in their service and hope you all experience the same.)

Fishing season has started, warmer weather is here; time to smoke it!!  Best to you all -  Grampy


----------



## rtbbq2

Bearcarver said:


> Hmmmm---Confusing!!
> 
> Now I'm starting to wonder if it depends how long the store has had it in their own storage. Could be new, yet manufactured 6 months ago, or longer.
> 
> Bear


Yup, probably old stock. I see it all the time at retailers....RTB


----------



## dibzonribz

I'm smoking a pork shoulder this weekend and I will take your advice and open up the top vent. My fear is that most of the smoke will escape and the temperature will fluctuate to much. But I'll give it a try if this is what others are doing. Thanks for the tip


----------



## dibzonribz

I left the vent open on my MES the last time a smoked a pork shoulder. I will say that it turned out better than before when leaving it closed. It had a better bark and turned out very good. Thanks again for the advise!
Happy Smoking


----------



## njpitmaster609

air is your friend here, leave the damper 60-75% open, it will allow the smoker to "breathe" and let the smoke infuse your meat properly, check your chips every few hours, good luck buddy!


----------



## 2nd smoke

deltadude said:


> The page you are showing,* is NOT in any of the manuals* listed at Masterbuilt website, nor is it in my manual from 2008.  The page "Lets Get Started" is not in any of those manuals or mine.   Please scan all pages and post, including the top /first page and the last page.
> 
> *The information is obviously not current or endorsed by Masterbuilt since it has been omitted in all the manuals they list on their support site, as well as the manual I have.*
> 
> Please
> 
> What year is your MES?  When and where did you purchase the MES (name of vendor)?
> 
> I may owe you an apology if your manual is indeed a legitimate MES manual, and have no problem offering that apology, since you believe you are following instructions.
> 
> I will go out and test your procedure and post the results.


I bought my 1st Masterbuilt Electric smoker 2 weeks ago and this is exactly the same page that came with my manual.

I joined this forum to get some good information on how to use my new smoker and it looks like what I found was alot of people with different opinions that seem to think they are the only ones that are right. The introduction to the forums said there many ways to smoke and that's exactly what I've found.

By the way, I smoked a small pork roast last Saturday and the "damper" was 1/4 open for the full 11 hours. Internal temp 190, wrapped in foil and a towel for 1 hour and no complants. One of the best I've had.


----------



## bdskelly

Spot on 2nd Smoke. I've watch this awesome thread with amazement. It's up to NINE pages now.  So I can't help myself but to contribute because I think everyone else has! 

... My instructions to the old style Glass Door MES 1200 watts were lost long ago.... 

*So from a veteran MES owner thats been relatively successful operating these marvelous culinary machines. Here goes...*

The only time I ever close the top vent is when I'm not using the smoker.  I've noticed that doing this keeps Flys and other critters out.
When smoking pork, poultry or beef I keep the vent open. And my food turns out fabulous. 
On occasion I drink too many beers and I accidentally open the vent only half way. And my food turns out fabulous. 
Hope that helps everyone!  *Relax*  Enjoy. 







Brian


----------



## Bearcarver

BDSkelly said:


> Spot on 2nd Smoke. I've watch this awesome thread with amazement. It's up to NINE pages now.  So I can't help myself but to contribute because I think everyone else has!
> 
> ... My instructions to the old style Glass Door MES 1200 watts were lost long ago....
> 
> *So from a veteran MES owner thats been relatively successful operating these marvelous culinary machines. Here goes...*
> 
> The only time I ever close the top vent is when I'm not using the smoker.  I've noticed that doing this keeps Flys and other critters out.
> When smoking pork, poultry or beef I keep the vent open. And my food turns out fabulous.
> On occasion I drink too many beers and I accidentally open the vent only half way. And my food turns out fabulous.
> Hope that helps everyone!  *Relax*  Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brian


Well said, Brian!!!

The whole thing boils down to "People should tell how they do it, and how good their way works, instead of how other peoples' ways are wrong, unless it's safety related".

Bear


----------



## overground

Like Brian, I never close the vent unless the unit is not in operation.

100% open while in use, although I do use a 45* bend cast iron stack on top of it.













20130121_105305.jpg



__ overground
__ May 21, 2013


----------



## domapoi

BDSkelly said:


> Spot on 2nd Smoke. I've watch this awesome thread with amazement. It's up to NINE pages now.  So I can't help myself but to contribute because I think everyone else has!
> 
> ... My instructions to the old style Glass Door MES 1200 watts were lost long ago....
> 
> *So from a veteran MES owner thats been relatively successful operating these marvelous culinary machines. Here goes...*
> 
> The only time I ever close the top vent is when I'm not using the smoker.  I've noticed that doing this keeps Flys and other critters out.
> When smoking pork, poultry or beef I keep the vent open. And my food turns out fabulous.
> On occasion I drink too many beers and I accidentally open the vent only half way. And my food turns out fabulous.
> Hope that helps everyone!  *Relax*  Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brian


I too cook only with the vent wide open. But, I do not close it when not using to keep the bugs and critters out. You see, I also use it to cold smoke cheese and other things and have to have the vent open when using the AMNS and, since it is not hot while cold smoking, those critters could get in then too. What I did is go to the store and picked up one of those wire mesh sink strainers that is slightly larger around then the vent. I then poked a little hole about the size and at the height of the vent lever and pushed the lever through the hole from the inside. This keeps, what is equal to, a little screen door over the vent to keep the bugs and critter out but lets the smoker breath and the smoke out as it should.

Also, as far as your lost instructions go, you can go to the MES website http://www.masterbuilt.com click on support and they type in your model number it it should take you to the manual. Or, you can go to here http://outdoorcooking.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/masterbuilt/masterbuilt_smoker_product_list.html and if yours is listed click on it to read or download or print your manual from there too.


----------



## animal54

OK here goes. I also have a MES and for the first year...I thought, vent closed, more smoke....I was wrong. After every use, my chips looked like they did nothing. I opened the vent about 1/3 of the way.......not only did I get more smoke flavor but also my chips were ash when I was done. The only issues was...keep having to add chips.....

 I would say, 1/3 to 1/2 open will be the best. It also gave me the "bark" I wanted on all my briskets and butts. That was the best way to tell if I did it right. I just bought a AMZ tray and now I do not know if I should have the vent open or closed on my Smoke Hollow propane. Any thoughts?


----------



## animal54

OK here goes. I also have a MES and for the first year...I thought, vent closed, more smoke....I was wrong. After every use, my chips looked like they did nothing. I opened the vent about 1/3 of the way.......not only did I get more smoke flavor but also my chips were ash when I was done. The only issues was...keep having to add chips.....

 I would say, 1/3 to 1/2 open will be the best. It also gave me the "bark" I wanted on all my briskets and butts. That was the best way to tell if I did it right. I just bought a AMZ tray and now I do not know if I should have the vent open or closed on my Smoke Hollow propane. Any thoughts?


----------



## Bearcarver

DOMAPOI said:


> I too cook only with the vent wide open. But, I do not close it when not using to keep the bugs and critters out. You see, I also use it to cold smoke cheese and other things and have to have the vent open when using the AMNS and, since it is not hot while cold smoking, those critters could get in then too. What I did is go to the store and picked up one of those wire mesh sink strainers that is slightly larger around then the vent. I then poked a little hole about the size and at the height of the vent lever and pushed the lever through the hole from the inside. This keeps, what is equal to, a little screen door over the vent to keep the bugs and critter out but lets the smoker breath and the smoke out as it should.
> 
> Also, as far as your lost instructions go, you can go to the MES website http://www.masterbuilt.com click on support and they type in your model number it it should take you to the manual. Or, you can go to here http://outdoorcooking.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/masterbuilt/masterbuilt_smoker_product_list.html and if yours is listed click on it to read or download or print your manual from there too.


I have a Mod up from a couple years ago with that SS Sink strainer to keep the stink bugs out.

Looks Like This:







Bear


----------



## gimmeharmony

If the vent is closed, won't it keep the heat regulated a bit better, making it more efficient?

My first smoke (pork shoulder butt) was with the vent closed during the smoking and open 1/2 way for the cooking time.  The thought was, if the vent was open, there would less humidity in the smoker allowing the bark to better form after it passed the 140 degree mark.


----------



## domapoi

Bearcarver said:


> I have a Mod up from a couple years ago with that SS Sink strainer to keep the stink bugs out.
> 
> Looks Like This:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bear


Exactly, that is where I got the idea from, sorry I didn't give the credit where the credit was due. That is the same one I use.


GimmeHarmony said:


> If the vent is closed, won't it keep the heat regulated a bit better, making it more efficient?
> 
> My first smoke (pork shoulder butt) was with the vent closed during the smoking and open 1/2 way for the cooking time.  The thought was, if the vent was open, there would less humidity in the smoker allowing the bark to better form after it passed the 140 degree mark.


The problem I find with the vent closed is that after the unit get up to temperature, the heating element doesn't come on that often after that. The chips rely on the heat from the heating element to keep them smoldering and producing smoke. Also, with the vent closed there usually isn't enough air flow to maintain the smoldering so it tends to go out rather than continuing  to smoke.


----------



## Bearcarver

GimmeHarmony said:


> If the vent is closed, won't it keep the heat regulated a bit better, making it more efficient?
> 
> My first smoke (pork shoulder butt) was with the vent closed during the smoking and open 1/2 way for the cooking time.  The thought was, if the vent was open, there would less humidity in the smoker allowing the bark to better form after it passed the 140 degree mark.


Yes, but it could also cause the smoke to go stale, and possibly give the meat a bad flavor.

Bear


----------



## rdownergarage

I always have the exhaust vent 1/2 way while cooking and the air inlet 1/4 open. and never had an issue. I hope this helps. I smoke meats all the time. as a matter of fact within the next few weeks I will be smoking a 20lbs turkey.. yummy..


----------



## ukiahsmokes

Thanks to everyone for your conversation.  I never heard of TBS and was wondering if the smoke coming out of my Masterbuilt was normal.

Now I know about TBS and that it means Thin Blue Smoke, and am happy, because that is exactly what I'm seeing. 

My son is a good hunter and has lots of venison.  Does anyone have any smoking tips for venison?  I've never tried smoking it before.

Thanks


----------



## bdskelly

Right on Ukia!

If smoke out of the vent on your MES looks like this, then you should be in good shape!

"TBS" example and vent position on an MES below. 













P1010002.JPG



__ bdskelly
__ May 19, 2013













  *Many thanks to all those brave men and women and their families for the sacrifices made and loyalty they have **exhibited for this wonderful nation. *

*May God bless them all and The United States of America. *


----------



## migraine

sorry I didn't see this earlier.

I just did a rack of BBs and some fresh sausage at 225*.  I put a med. sized cookie sheet on the second from the bottom of the rack holders and then put the pellet tray on top.  this protects the pellet tray from too much heat that causes the pellets to charcoal. I used the original bottom vent hole and closed off the others that I drilled.  the 3" top vent was open(with a slotted vent cap)  great smoke with a clean burn.  I should have cook the BB's a little longer, but still good and very moist.

still learning on the right/wrong way to use the analog version.

today and tomorrow are tri tips and since it's going to be in the high 60's, lows 70's tomorrow, I'm going to do a batch of cheese.  probably my last chance until next fall.


----------



## daveomak

migraine said:


> sorry I didn't see this earlier.
> 
> I just did a rack of BBs and some fresh sausage at 225*.  I put a med. sized cookie sheet on the second from the bottom of the rack holders and then put the pellet tray on top.  this protects the pellet tray from too much heat that causes the pellets to charcoal. I used the original bottom vent hole and closed off the others that I drilled.  the 3" top vent was open(with a slotted vent cap)  great smoke with a clean burn.  I should have cook the BB's a little longer, but still good and very moist.
> 
> still learning on the right/wrong way to use the analog version.
> 
> today and tomorrow are tri tips and since it's going to be in the high 60's, lows 70's tomorrow,
> 
> *I'm going to do a batch of cheese.  probably my last chance until next fall.*


Brian, Morning..... When smoking cheese, some folks have found it helpful to freeze water in plastic beverage bottles... Place in the smoker to cool the air...  In a bottle, the humidity won't rise as it would with ice cubes....   When you want to smoke cheese, you have to try and beat mother nature when the temp rises.....   
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   ....  

Dave


----------



## ukiahsmokes

My Son-in-Law has been in the Army special ops for 10 years: just is attending helicopter pilot training.  We're thinking of getting him an electric smoker for Father's day.

Thanks for the good thoughts.


----------



## foamheart

Might as well add my 2 cents.

My only familarity with electric was the old Redi-smok. You load the tray, put in the meat, turn it on high for 30 mins. then crank it back to whatever temp you want. Then I got this MES. At first I was using it the same as the old redi-smok, then being the typical guy I had to tinker. My thoughts if there is an inlet and an outlet, a suction and a discharge, a supply and return, only one is regulated for flow. Since the chip loader can't really be regulated to well, that meant the discharge vent.

So far I really have not seen the difference between full open 1/2 open, 3/4 open, so I use 1/4 open assuming that it should help maintain the heat better as well as maintain smoke in the chamber better.

Tonight is my first try of the A-Maz-N smoke generator and when I leave the loader out this thing is puffin like a train out both ends. Color me sceptial at the moment. so I closed down the vent sizably which seems to have helpped with smoke. Its been a 1/2 hour, I better check go check it.

Take a minute out of your day today, think about those who gave the ultimate sacrifice so we could enjoy the day off. /salute


----------



## palladini

I have scanned all the pages of the MasterBuilt Smoker I bought June 1st 2013 and made a website of the scanned pictures.  If you check page 3, you will see the same page *mythmaster* shows above, it is in the manual.


----------



## daveomak

Palladini said:


> I have scanned all the pages of the MasterBuilt Smoker I bought June 1st 2013 and made a website of the scanned pictures.  If you check page 3, you will see the same page *mythmaster* shows above, it is in the manual.
> 
> My site - http://dnsvideo.ca/mast/index.php


Palladini, evening.... I read page 3......  The problem with folks that build smokers to try and make a buck, they don't have a clue how to make great Q....   they think you should use your smoker like and oven, like in the kitchen..... That just my opinion...  Way back when, long time ago, folks smoked meat in a shed, or lean-to and air circulation was part of the drying process.... forming the pellicle etc...   there is something to be said for chef's that smoke meat in a stainless pan on top of the stove.... something to be said for following directions on smoker pamphlets...  There is no wrong way to smoke meat...   If you like it, that's cool......  Myself, I try to perfect the "old time" methods used by the folks in covered wagons, some of the time.... experiment others.... forluvofsmoke has a "new to me" method for brisket and butts that I have tried and like very much.... anyway, the point of this rant is to experiment with several techniques and develop a flavor profile and texture you like .....  Dave


----------



## palladini

I was on Masterbuilts Youtube channel just a couple days ago, and they were putting soaked chips into the smoker, a 30 inch digital electric model.  So what to do, nobody knows.


----------



## daveomak

Palladini said:


> I was on Masterbuilts Youtube channel just a couple days ago, and they were putting soaked chips into the smoker, a 30 inch digital electric model.  So what to do, nobody knows.


Soaking chips just slow down the smoking start.... Use dry chips, add about 1/4 cup at a time, about every 45 minutes. OR.....   buy a smoke generator from Todd.... An AMAZING smoker.... Get the AMNPS, pellet burner..... it will burn up to 11 ish hours on one fill.....  no electricity, no fan..... it's cool..... I and others here use them.....  Check the sponsors link in the bar at the top of the page......   Believe me, and others, when it comes to excellent smoke and food tasting great, Todd's invention is AWESOME, not to mention over 10 hours of continuous smoke....   

Dave


----------



## Bearcarver

Palladini said:


> I was on Masterbuilts Youtube channel just a couple days ago, and they were putting soaked chips into the smoker, a 30 inch digital electric model. * So what to do, nobody knows.*


Do what works best for you. Many of us have a lot more experience with our MES smokers than the guys who make Masterbuilt's Videos, and most MES owners run their top vent all the way open, and most of us have found soaking the chips to be useless. That doesn't mean you have to do exactly as we do.We just make recommendations.

Bear


----------



## geddylee

Hey Guys,

I just got my first 30" SS MBES for Father's Day.  My unit has the left side (facing the front the window) upper side vent with the full size chip tray.  I saw others commenting on Modifying their older MBES's with that top vent trick.  Are there any special tips or tricks for the newer model of the MBES 30" smokers?  

I made some ribs in it the other weekend. They came out pretty good, granted my first time using the unit, they could have been more tender, but they have a nice glaze on them from a dry rub I used, nothing wet.  

Any tips for the newer type of MBES would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks!


----------



## geerock

The gen 2 models with the side vent benefit from more air flow.  The small slit in that side vent causes the smoke to hang around in the chamber a bit too long in my opinion.  It also allows the temp to continue to rise way beyond the set temp.  I dremeled out a second opening just like the first thru the back plate with the vent closed.  That way when you open the vent you have twice as much exhaust opening.  In another I took out the vent assembly completely and replaced it with a 3 inch adjustable elbow from lowes and put in a rotating damper.  I also have found that small chunks work great for smoke.  Lasts longer and gives better flavor.  Also, for longer smokes get an AMAZN pellet tray.


----------



## geddylee

geerock said:


> The gen 2 models with the side vent benefit from more air flow. The small slit in that side vent causes the smoke to hang around in the chamber a bit too long in my opinion. It also allows the temp to continue to rise way beyond the set temp. I dremeled out a second opening just like the first thru the back plate with the vent closed. That way when you open the vent you have twice as much exhaust opening. In another I took out the vent assembly completely and replaced it with a 3 inch adjustable elbow from lowes and put in a rotating damper. I also have found that small chunks work great for smoke. Lasts longer and gives better flavor. Also, for longer smokes get an AMAZN pellet tray.


Thanks Geerock for the reply.   Which of the two mods did you find most useful for the Gen 2 version of the MBES?  Also I was readying up on those AMAZN pellet trays, but I read it was only to used upto 180 degrees???  And also where would I put it?  On the lowest rack?  Or where?  

Thanks again for your input :)


----------



## geerock

I've used them both.  And I've used the tray and tube.  I remove the mb water tray and place the amazn over that opening.  Then I use a foil pan on the bottom rack as a place for water or sand tray.  It also protects the smoke generator from drippings.  As for smoke only up to 180 with an amazn...... not true.  Chunks give you a good hour to hour and a half of great smoke so tey that too.  I just did an overnight smoke with 13 lb brisket and 9 lb butt last night and started at 8pm.  Used chunks until 11 pm and then used amazn pellet tube which lasts about 7 hours.  Thats plenty of smoke for me.  No need to get up and check.  Can get a good night sleep and food is ready  around 1 to 2 in the afternoon depending on cooker temp.


----------



## Bearcarver

GeddyLee said:


> Thanks Geerock for the reply.   Which of the two mods did you find most useful for the Gen 2 version of the MBES?  *Also I was readying up on those AMAZN pellet trays, but I read it was only to used upto 180 degrees???*   And also where would I put it?  On the lowest rack?  Or where?
> 
> Thanks again for your input :)


What you read about was the AMNS. The original one made for only Dust. It's only good for up to 180* or 200*. If you have it in at 230* it will more than likely jump across rows, and could burn the whole thing up in less than an hour.

That's why the AMNPS was designed mainly to burn pellets. That one works at higher temps, and has specially designed interior walls to keep one row from igniting the next row.

Bear


----------



## gunz and carz

This page exactly matches the page in my manual, which accompanied my smoker that was delivered last week.

I wonder if they put an old manual in a brand new product? That seems unlikely.

I don't know the answer about the vent.

I smoked my first ribs this weekend using the 2-2-1 method.

I kept the damper closed the whole time and I had the water pan filled.

The cloud that came out when I opened the door was NOT steam, because steam doesn't sting your eyes like that.

My ribs came out tender and delicious. 

I had smoke coming out of the chip adding hole the whole time I was smoking the ribs. (which I did the first 2 hours).

I plan to try my next batch with the damper 100% open and see what the difference is.

Then perhaps I can give a more logical response to the difference it creates.


----------



## geddylee

Bearcarver said:


> What you read about was the AMNS. The original one made for only Dust. It's only good for up to 180* or 200*. If you have it in at 230* it will more than likely jump across rows, and could burn the whole thing up in less than an hour.
> 
> That's why the AMNPS was designed mainly to burn pellets. That one works at higher temps, and has specially designed interior walls to keep one row from igniting the next row.
> 
> Bear


Thank you so much for pointing out the differences Bear!  Truly appreciated!  I will be most likely purchasing one here soon.  The price is perfect.  I am curious though, I had already bought several bags of wood chips for the MBES, can I use those chips in the AMNPS?  Obviously not overfilling it, but laying them out so that it follows the trail within the AMNPS?   Also another question would be, where do I place the AMNPS?   Do I not concern myself with it having to be on contact with the heating element?  Or do I just manually light the wood/pellets through the lighting port holes on the AMNPS?  

Thanks again for bearing with all my questions :)


----------



## Bearcarver

Gunz and Carz said:


> This page exactly matches the page in my manual, which accompanied my smoker that was delivered last week.
> 
> I wonder if they put an old manual in a brand new product? That seems unlikely.
> 
> I don't know the answer about the vent.
> 
> I smoked my first ribs this weekend using the 2-2-1 method.
> 
> I kept the damper closed the whole time and I had the water pan filled.
> 
> The cloud that came out when I opened the door was NOT steam, because steam doesn't sting your eyes like that.
> 
> My ribs came out tender and delicious.
> 
> I had smoke coming out of the chip adding hole the whole time I was smoking the ribs. (which I did the first 2 hours).
> 
> I plan to try my next batch with the damper 100% open and see what the difference is.
> 
> Then perhaps I can give a more logical response to the difference it creates.


Sounds Great !!! What ever works for you---Use it !!

Ribs will like more moisture than most items. They are one of the easiest to dry out.

It only takes a little smoke from drippings or what ever mixed with a lot of steam to burn your eyes.

The smoke was coming out the chip dumper hole because it couldn't get out the closed top vent.

Keep us posted-----I find this stuff very interesting!!

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver

GeddyLee said:


> Thank you so much for pointing out the differences Bear!  Truly appreciated!  I will be most likely purchasing one here soon.  The price is perfect.  I am curious though, I had already bought several bags of wood chips for the MBES, can I use those chips in the AMNPS?  Obviously not overfilling it, but laying them out so that it follows the trail within the AMNPS?   Also another question would be, where do I place the AMNPS?   Do I not concern myself with it having to be on contact with the heating element?  Or do I just manually light the wood/pellets through the lighting port holes on the AMNPS?
> 
> Thanks again for bearing with all my questions :)


You are very welcome!!

I don't think chips will work in an AMNPS. Save the chips for if your AMNPS runs out & you only want another half hour or hour of smoke, throw some chips in the chip drawer, instead of having to reload & restart your AMNPS.

Keep your AMNPS away from the heating element---Light it with a torch---Lot's of posts with tips on lighting one properly.

I would have to know which MES you have to be able to tell you the best place to put it.

Bear


----------



## geddylee

Bearcarver said:


> You are very welcome!!
> 
> I don't think chips will work in an AMNPS. Save the chips for if your AMNPS runs out & you only want another half hour or hour of smoke, throw some chips in the chip drawer, instead of having to reload & restart your AMNPS.
> 
> Keep your AMNPS away from the heating element---Light it with a torch---Lot's of posts with tips on lighting one properly.
> 
> I would have to know which MES you have to be able to tell you the best place to put it.
> 
> Bear


I have the latest build, or revision 2 of the MBES 30" smoker.  The one with the digital gauge at the front of the top of the unit and new front bottom center drain pan.   You can also from this photo how the insides look :)   Dont mind the food in it ;)  













My first Smoked BBQ.jpg



__ geddylee
__ Jun 23, 2013






I hope that helps to give you some idea?     Thanks again for all your help sir!


----------



## palladini

Dave, I intend to get one of those Amaze-n products soon, Living on a disability income it is not easy though.  I do want to make some bacon and smoke some cheese and such, so in time I will get one.

 

My last smoke, just this past Saturday, I had soaked the chips for a day or two mid week, then emptied out the water, Let them sit in my shed out of the jar for a day, then put back in the jar and sealed it up.  I was using a old large Pickle jar and sealed it up for two days before smoking.  Chips were just damp, I found they worked perfectly.


----------



## Bearcarver

GeddyLee said:


> I have the latest build, or revision 2 of the MBES 30" smoker.  The one with the digital gauge at the front of the top of the unit and new front bottom center drain pan.   You can also from this photo how the insides look :)   Dont mind the food in it ;)
> 
> I hope that helps to give you some idea?     Thanks again for all your help sir!


OK----I don't have that one, but I have something I would try:

Remove that little water pan from below the square hole. Leave the hole clear of any foil. Set the AMNPS on top of the square hole, so air can come up through that hole to give air to the AMNPS. Then put a small foil pan on the bottom shelf (above the AMNPS) to keep drips off of the AMNPS.

Try that, and see how it works.

Bear


----------



## gimmeharmony

GeddyLee, you are gonna love your food a lot more once your smoker is seasoned a bit.  I have forgotten that the walls of the smoker used to be silver.  :)

Have fun - looks like you are on the right track.  I am a n00b and am loving everything that comes out of my smoker so far!


----------



## smokin 49er

New to this site but in my experiences with the MES I am replying to the vent position that is that I tend to open and close the damper throughout the whole time the meat is in but the last hour I close the damper and I usually add chips when I fires put the meat in and then every two to three hours. I always smoke my ribs at least no less then ten hours (6 slabs) at 190-220 anything on the wood chips you should add them to the desired taste of how much smoke flavor you like>


----------



## geerock

Ummm,  what?


----------



## tamathumper

I'm leaving it open for my next entire smoke to see the difference.  I'm smoking the whole time through the 3-2-1, and like everything else I read some folks do and some folks don't. Talk about your inexact science!


----------



## smoking in nye

Hello,*
I have been following the various dialog on vent positions on Masterbuilt 30" and 40". I recently got my Masterbuilt 40" NEW GENERATION (part # 20070512)smoker and on page 3 of the manual it does talk about the vent on the side of the unit. On the OLD GENERATION version that vent is on the top. I don't have that unit or it's manual so I can't say what the manual says.
My first attempt smoking chicken thighs and legs, leaving the vent closed, for me, creates too much moisture and the chicken seemed rubber. It was over smoked , just way too smokey. The second try I left the vent open and what a difference. Mildly smokey, and very tender meat. Ditto for my St. Louis ribs, they came out great. I guess the best way for each individual is try it both ways and you will then know which works best for you.
Bill*


----------



## bosox20

Totally agree!!  I keep mine closes while bringing it up to desires temp. Then once I start smoking I open it up about 3/4.  Works for me.


----------



## Bearcarver

smoking in nye said:


> Hello,
> *I have been following the various dialog on vent positions on Masterbuilt 30" and 40". I recently got my Masterbuilt 40" NEW GENERATION (part # 20070512)smoker and on page 3 of the manual it does talk about the vent on the side of the unit. On the OLD GENERATION version that vent is on the top. I don't have that unit or it's manual so I can't say what the manual says.
> My first attempt smoking chicken thighs and legs, leaving the vent closed, for me, creates too much moisture and the chicken seemed rubber. It was over smoked , just way too smokey. The second try I left the vent open and what a difference. Mildly smokey, and very tender meat. Ditto for my St. Louis ribs, they came out great. I guess the best way for each individual is try it both ways and you will then know which works best for you.
> Bill*


Great Job---Didn't take you long to learn that closing your top vent will keep the smoke in the smoker until it gets stagnant. You gotta keep it flowing.

Bear


----------



## gene freudenber

I have been using the 40 in Masterbuilt since 06 and have finally figured out what works and what doesn't.  I even wrote a cookbook to go with it.  I do the 3-2-1 rib method I got from Jeff Phillips website jeffcooking-meat.com.  Season up the ribs with Jeff's rub or make your own an hour or so ahead of time. I always start with a cold pit unless it's 40 degrees.  Keeps the heat going longer and keeps generating smoke longer.  I smoke the ribs for three hour (vent wide open), wrap in foil with a little (I said little beer) and put back on the pit for two hours.  At the end of two hours I unwrap and put back on the pit to crisp up a little.  They are usually so tender that I just open up the foil and put em back on the pit.  My wife likes em this way.  I call it NO TEETH BBQ because they are so tender.  We have done everything from meatloaf to jalapeno poppers on our smoker, Love it.


----------



## gene freudenber

Correct that  jeffcookingmeat to jeffsmoking-meat.com


----------



## jeffingh

I did 3 racks yesterday in a 30" MBES, 230 for 4 1/2 hours with the vent fully open, wrapped the ribs in foil and bumped up the temp to 270 for 1 hour w/ the vent closed. Perfection was achieved


----------



## smokesavor

Well... if anyone's still following Non-smoking Master Built smoker dilemma, here's a quick recap, and my latest update.

I have the 30" MBES, 'analog' version, model 20070210. This model has NO exhaust vent, and my problem is it does NOT produce adequate (at least in my opinion) smoke. I've tried various times, temps, dry vs wet chips, in amounts from 1/4 cup to half filling the tray that MB supplies.

Bottom line, this smoker doesn't get enough oxygen to burn chips. I usually end up with charcoal and partially unburnt chips that never had a chance to smoke! The meats come out very tender and taste 'ok', but not real smoky - I actually think this smoker makes 'steamed' meats, more than 'smoked' meats, and I'm afraid I can't recommend this particular model... which has NO VENT.

I DO have some work-arounds that might help others with the same issues - I only use 1/4 to 1/2 cup of DRY chips at a time. Start the smoker cold (do not pre-heat) This keeps the heating element burning for a while, and during the warm up period, I DO get some decent smoke. After about 30 minutes, remove the chip tray, empty, and re-load. (In my case, not all of the chips are burnt, but it seems to help the smoke situation if I change them out after 30 min) Reloading also allows oxygen IN to the smoker box for another (albeit short) round of burn time for the chips.

From here, I open the door & change the chips every 30-45 minutes. It's a bit of a pain, and defeats the purpose of buying this electric smoker (I was hoping for more 'care free' smoking) but, this seems to help.

SOME MODS - I drilled another hole in the bottom of the smoker - fairly close to the factory hole, and about the same size. Drill it so the hole is still within the area of the drip pan. I also drilled a few holes along the SIDES of the chip tray, near the bottom, where it bends up to make the sides. (mine are 3/16", 3 on each side, 2 on ea end) These two mods seem to allow more air in to the box and chip tray. Unfortunately, since steam can't escape from the box (unless you open it a lot) the steam tends to smother out the smoke. What this REALLY needs is a proper vent.

My next mod may be a real vent, but MB doesn't really acknowledge there's any problem. I assure you, this model will NOT smoke if used as it is from the factory. The 'solution' (such as it is) I've outlined helps, but the REAL solution is adding a vent.

So... if anyone has added a vent to this model smoker, please supply some info! What vent do I use? Where can I get one? How do I install it? etc...

And, for anyone contemplating the purchase of a MB smoker, make SURE you get one with a vent in it!! Again, I do NOT recommend the new model #20070210; search out a different model with a vent, an older model (which had a vent) or a different brand - you'll get real smoke & be a lot happier!

Tony


----------



## tamathumper

SmokeSavor, my MES 30 doesn't seal well along the top of the door - as much smoke escapes around the door as out the top vent, so I get plenty of air flow and no problem keeping chips and pellets lit.

I wonder if you used a few short sections of dowel (or nails or bolts or similar small round items) and put them at the top of your door so the seal has to compress to fit around them, would it not create a gap and give you improved airflow?  The seal on many of these MES smokers is less than perfect, so it's worth a shot if it gives you more smoke.


----------



## foamheart

Not taking a stand here, only trying to help. Seriously.

I used redi-smok electric smokers since the early 80's. Pop had one much longer. The MES was the first electric I noticed with a vent, of course I wasn't really watching for 'em.

The way you used the non-vented was to charge a tray with chips which set upon the heating element. Added meats, closed it up, and set the rheostat to high for 30 mins, (to release the smoke), then turned the rheostat down to your smoking temperature. 5 or 6 hours smokes are no problem, only problem was when you over charged the chip tray and yes you got that nasty taste which I assume from prior posts here to be what is called creosote smoke.

But other than the over charge I never had a complaint. Nothing but compliments, folks buying these smokers so they too could smoke meats.

BUT..... they were never designed to be the equivalent to a fire burner. They were made for places where smokers and grills were either illegal or just not a good fit. You close 'em up, smoke 'em up, and let them sit and slow cook. Course there was no cooking by IT back then either, you learned how to gauge time and temp by meat size and outside temp. I am not saying it was better, only the way it was.

What did the manufacturer have to say when you asked them, I assume you called looking for direction? That maybe the problem though, because when I got my MES their instruction/recipes book was pretty much non-existent. Not like the days when were got a good manual, and you got recipes in the manual.

Electric's are not made for continious wood charging, nor for moping nor spritzing. They are supposedly start and walk away cooking.

I am not taking sides and don't what to argue the merits/drawbacks of electric smokers. Just trying to explain how they were originally intended to function. Go online and look up a Redi-Smok electric smoker and download the manual, it might help some in understanding.


----------



## palladini

tamathumper said:


> SmokeSavor, my MES 30 doesn't seal well along the top of the door - as much smoke escapes around the door as out the top vent, so I get plenty of air flow and no problem keeping chips and pellets lit.
> 
> I wonder if you used a few short sections of dowel (or nails or bolts or similar small round items) and put them at the top of your door so the seal has to compress to fit around them, would it not create a gap and give you improved airflow?  The seal on many of these MES smokers is less than perfect, so it's worth a shot if it gives you more smoke.


Mine did the same, I contacted MB by phone, described the problem, asking if the hinges were adjustable.  By the end of the conversation, the pleasant lady had me door ordered.  A day or two later, after using my smoker and see smoke drift out of the door seal, I said good, a new door coming.  In moving it a bit later, I noticed that plastic cover on the hinge move, which peaked my curiosity, so I got screw driver, removed the plastic piece and low and behold, those hinges on the top can be adjusted. There is a 3 screw assembly under that plastic piece, a little bit of tweaking sealed the door perfectly. It is not that hard to do, either.













Smoker 001.jpg



__ palladini
__ Aug 20, 2013


















Smoker 002.jpg



__ palladini
__ Aug 20, 2013


----------



## bryant

I have a question please?   I have a 40" MES  I just recently changed from small wood chips to a even finer (smaller) wood chip.   I don't have much of a problem getting smoke but when I empty my try I just have burnt (charcoal) chips left instead of ashes.  I have soaked and not soaked the wood trying to get a different result.  I can usually get smoke for around an hour or two around 230-250 degrees.  I usually leave the vent open or at least 1/2 way open while cooking.

Thanks


----------



## bryant

You have to try the 3-2-1 or a 3-2-2 method for the ribs and make sure your water tray is at least 1/2 way or more full.   I have a 40" and they come out perfect everytime.


----------



## smokesavor

Tamathumper - I like that idea of allowing the door to leak! As luck would have it, my door seals GREAT, but I can 'fix' that! And thanks to Paladini, I see that the door hinge can be adjusted - I'll definitely give that a try!

Thanks,

Tony


----------



## smokesavor

Foamheart said:


> Not taking a stand here, only trying to help. Seriously.
> 
> I used redi-smok electric smokers since the early 80's. Pop had one much longer. The MES was the first electric I noticed with a vent, of course I wasn't really watching for 'em.
> 
> The way you used the non-vented was to charge a tray with chips which set upon the heating element. Added meats, closed it up, and set the rheostat to high for 30 mins, (to release the smoke), then turned the rheostat down to your smoking temperature. 5 or 6 hours smokes are no problem, only problem was when you over charged the chip tray and yes you got that nasty taste which I assume from prior posts here to be what is called creosote smoke.
> 
> But other than the over charge I never had a complaint. Nothing but compliments, folks buying these smokers so they too could smoke meats.
> 
> BUT..... they were never designed to be the equivalent to a fire burner. They were made for places where smokers and grills were either illegal or just not a good fit. You close 'em up, smoke 'em up, and let them sit and slow cook. Course there was no cooking by IT back then either, you learned how to gauge time and temp by meat size and outside temp. I am not saying it was better, only the way it was.
> 
> What did the manufacturer have to say when you asked them, I assume you called looking for direction? That maybe the problem though, because when I got my MES their instruction/recipes book was pretty much non-existent. Not like the days when were got a good manual, and you got recipes in the manual.
> 
> Electric's are not made for continious wood charging, nor for moping nor spritzing. They are supposedly start and walk away cooking.
> 
> I am not taking sides and don't what to argue the merits/drawbacks of electric smokers. Just trying to explain how they were originally intended to function. Go online and look up a Redi-Smok electric smoker and download the manual, it might help some in understanding.


Thanks - your comments make sense. MB was very very cordial, and offered a few suggestions (which I had tried) Their recommendation was to use a fairly small amount of chips (1/2 cup max) and start the smoker cold; they said do NOT preheat it. This keeps the burner on longer and allows the chips to burn/smoke. They also recommended opening the door every 30-45 minutes to allow more air inside. I do understand that electric smokers will NOT produce identical results as a stick/charcoal burner - which makes sense if you think about it. But, for now anyway... the electric option is more convenient for me, so I'll keep working with this until I can get acceptable smoke, and results.

Don't get me wrong, the MB Electric does a good job, and everyone LOVES the meats that come out of it. I'm not UN-happy with the results, my ONLY issue was the lack of a vent, which (at least in my case) creates a 'steamy' environment in the box, and doesn't allow my wood chips to burn properly. With the helpful advice here, I'm going to adjust the smoker's door and allow it to leak some, which should (I think?!) effectively work as a vent. And I'll start 'cold', use a small amount of wood chips and change them out every 30-45 minutes (probably for the first 2-3 hours only) Hopefully, that gets more smoke in my MB, for a little more smoke flavor, and less 'steam'.

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions/advice!
Tony


----------



## soxfan1983

Question... Have any of you tried the traeger pellets with your MES instead of wood chips?  If you only use wood hips, do you soak them?

Also, are you supposed to have water in the water pan?  Or is it only for certain meats?  If no water, is it ok to take the water pan out of the smoker?

Sorry, beginner here. Just tried my new smoker yesterday and had ribs, brisket and pork shoulder. No smoke ring, which made me very dissapointed. I used wood chips and added them twice (beginning and half way through). I had water in the pan.  I realized (through this board) that I made the mistake of keeping the vent closed. All my friends said they liked everything but I feel the brisket was a bit dry (IMO), the ribs were good and fall of the bone and the pork was pretty most and tasty. 

I had the brisket and pork on for 5 hours and then wrapped in foil for the remaining hour. The ribs I had on for 3 hours, then 2 with foil and the 1 still in foil but with sauce rubbed on them. 

Basically I'm looking for help, instructions on what to do. Help to get a smoke ring is welcomed too!


----------



## Bearcarver

soxfan1983 said:


> Question... Have any of you tried the traeger pellets with your MES instead of wood chips? If you only use wood hips, do you soak them?* I don't think you're supposed to use pellets in the chip burner. Very few of us soak chips.*
> 
> Also, are you supposed to have water in the water pan? Or is it only for certain meats? If no water, is it ok to take the water pan out of the smoker? *Very few of us put water in the pan, but my owners' manual says to never use it without the pan in. I cover mine with foil & leave it in empty.*
> 
> Sorry, beginner here. Just tried my new smoker yesterday and had ribs, brisket and pork shoulder. No smoke ring, which made me very dissapointed. I used wood chips and added them twice (beginning and half way through). I had water in the pan. I realized (through this board) that I made the mistake of keeping the vent closed. All my friends said they liked everything but I feel the brisket was a bit dry (IMO), the ribs were good and fall of the bone and the pork was pretty most and tasty. *You won't get a smoke ring with an electric smoker, but it's all show anyway.*
> 
> I had the brisket and pork on for 5 hours and then wrapped in foil for the remaining hour. The ribs I had on for 3 hours, then 2 with foil and the 1 still in foil but with sauce rubbed on them.
> 
> Basically I'm looking for help, instructions on what to do. Help to get a smoke ring is welcomed too!


*  Bear*

*PS: Please go to "Roll Call" and introduce yourself, so you can be properly welcomed.*


----------



## geerock

I've tried the pellets but they burn so fast and heavy they're not worth it.  I actually use small chunks for the longest and most flavorful smoke.  Or I also have the AMAZN smoke trays and tubes.


----------



## smoking stro

Isn't it just personal preference anyway. Seems like a lot of posting over a vent position. Just like meat it is all trial and error no two items are the same.


----------



## soxfan1983

Bearcarver said:


> *  Bear*
> 
> *PS: Please go to "Roll Call" and introduce yourself, so you can be properly welcomed.*


Bear - Thank you for the information.  I just posted in "roll call" as well.


----------



## cekkk

I may not live long enough to get the hang of this smoking business, but learning is fun.  Is there EVER a time to

shut down the vent partially or completely?

And I'll add that customer service was very quick to respond to my email regarding the ill fitting chip tray.  A

replacement is on the way.


----------



## Bearcarver

cekkk said:


> I may not live long enough to get the hang of this smoking business, but learning is fun. * Is there EVER a time to*
> 
> *shut down the vent partially or completely?*
> 
> And I'll add that customer service was very quick to respond to my email regarding the ill fitting chip tray.  A
> 
> replacement is on the way.


Yes,

Maybe when you're preheating your MES, or after you're done putting smoke on the meat to make your element come on less often. I do that occasionally, but never completely closed, because my temp probe wires go through the top vent !!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





On Edit: Also when you aren't using it, to keep bugs out.

Bear


----------



## sarge1945

I have found my smoker produces good smoke with the vent opened about 3/4.  I am finding however that at temperatures below 250 F not much smoke is produced.


----------



## Bearcarver

sarge1945 said:


> I have found my smoker produces good smoke with the vent opened about 3/4.  I am finding however that at temperatures below 250 F not much smoke is produced.


If you're talking about an MES Gen #1, you probably aren't getting much smoke because the bottom of the chip drawer is too far from the element, or there's an extra piece of metal between the drawer & the element. If that's your problem, you may still be able to get the FREE retro-fix chip burner from Masterbuilt, but the best way to fix it would be to get an AMNPS, and start really having fun smoking.

Bear


----------



## charlied20

Ihave a MES 40 and smoke baby back ribs all the time. I use the 2-2-1 method. I leave the vent half open all the time i have smoke on the ribs; close it for the non-smoke part. They come out great! I use captain morgain's spiced rum and apple juice for the foiled part!


----------



## coachpete

Coach Pete here. I just purchased my Masterbuilt Pro Digital Electric Smokehouse and was reading these posts hoping to find the proper time and temp for bone in turkey breasts. Any help would be appreciated! Please

I did get caught up in the back and forth ventilation discussion and wanted to let you know,
my manual code # 9807100037 10512-04JH does have this page "Let's Get Started", its page 3. I purchased my new smokehouse 9/13 for what its worth.


----------



## gene freudenber

I baked 50 potatoes in the Masterbuilt Smoker at 250 with the vent closed.  I leave it full open for all other smoking since stagnant smoke leaves residue on the meat.


----------



## Bearcarver

CoachPete said:


> Coach Pete here. I just purchased my Masterbuilt Pro Digital Electric Smokehouse and was reading these posts hoping to find the proper time and temp for bone in turkey breasts. Any help would be appreciated! Please
> 
> I did get caught up in the back and forth ventilation discussion and wanted to let you know,
> my manual code # 9807100037 10512-04JH does have this page "Let's Get Started", its page 3. I purchased my new smokehouse 9/13 for what its worth.


Congrats Coach & welcome to SMF !!!

Please check into Roll Call & introduce yourself so you can be properly welcomed.

Meanwhile don't believe everything you read on the "Let's get started" page. Most of the MES owners on this forum know a lot more about how to use their MES than the guys who wrote the book. The book I got told me to put water in the pan & soak my chips. I doubt that guy ever used an MES.


----------



## smokinfireman

I just purchased the MES 30 yesterday, 12-14-13, at Gander Mountain. The page above that was scanned in, is in fact in the manual that came out of the box when I opened it. 

I am using it today for the first time. Previously, i have never used an electric smoker, only a true wood fired smoker which I built. Today, I am smoking peppered bacon, sausage, and a shoulder roast. After two hours with the vent closed, I checked temps and tried some of the bacon and sausage. The bacon has a mild metallic taste, and the sausage is fairly grey instead of the brown that I am used to with my wood fired smoker.

This result is what brought me to this thread, to get advice on the vent. Other than the above scanned page, there is no mention of the vent in the manual at all. After reading the other posts here, I have now opened my vent to about 90%.

Hope this helps to settle the argument about the manual. Have a great day.


----------



## handymanstan

smokinfireman said:


> I just purchased the MES 30 yesterday, 12-14-13, at Gander Mountain. The page above that was scanned in, is in fact in the manual that came out of the box when I opened it.
> 
> I am using it today for the first time. Previously, i have never used an electric smoker, only a true wood fired smoker which I built. Today, I am smoking peppered bacon, sausage, and a shoulder roast. After two hours with the vent closed, I checked temps and tried some of the bacon and sausage. The bacon has a mild metallic taste, and the sausage is fairly grey instead of the brown that I am used to with my wood fired smoker.
> 
> This result is what brought me to this thread, to get advice on the vent. Other than the above scanned page, there is no mention of the vent in the manual at all. After reading the other posts here, I have now opened my vent to about 90%.
> 
> Hope this helps to settle the argument about the manual. Have a great day.


Did you season the smoker first? 

Stan


----------



## gene freudenber

I always cook with the vent open.  I am told by the pros that if smoke is not flowing it will leave sooty deposits of creosote and other by products of burning wood on the meat.


----------



## butch012263

As said in another reply, I have two of these smokers and use them daily. I load 4 butts (6-7#),  1 ham (14#) and a brisket (6-7#). With the smoker cold I load the meat, about 8pm, put in about 1/2 cup of soaked chips, set the temp at 210°, close the vent with just a small hole open and let it go for 2 hours. I then put another 1/2 cup of soaked chips in and go to bed. I am wrapping the meat at 5am and removing it from the smoker at 8:30am. Butts are tender and juicy, the ham is near perfection and the brisket I'm told by our customers is some of the best they have had. I never preheat and never average above 210°.


----------



## brahmabull

Hey guys, I have a somewhat related question to Masterbuilt vents.  I just put together this guy:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Masterbuilt-Vertical-Charcoal-Propane-Gas-Smoker-20050412/202904343#

The side circular style vents are driving me a bit insane... According to the manual I am supposed to use a screw and a stopper nut.  this leaves a lot of play so I cannot tightly close the vent, keep it half open or really fully open. I feel like it just kinda dangles there and positions itself wherever gravity tells it to.

I thought maybe the tension I was expecting would come after the grate holders were in but no..

Both side vents are like this so I have to believe its by design??

Any ideas or feedback?

Thanks!


----------



## rgmoore1957

Does anyone have a picture of the retro chip tray? I would like to compare it to my tray.


----------



## Bearcarver

rgmoore1957 said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the retro chip tray? I would like to compare it to my tray.


If when you remove your chip drawer, there is still a piece of metal under it, above the heating element, that is the problem child.

The retro-fix has nothing between the bottom of the drawer & the heating element.

Bear


----------



## walktothelight

My Masterbuilt Sportsman Elite, model 20072912, 20073012, purchased 12/21/2013 from Cabela's, has that page : (*Let's Get Started*) It says the same. "Close air dampener on side of unit to retain moisture and heat.If cooking foods such as fish or jerky, open air dampener to release moisture. if we are referencing the book,"

It also says under *PRE-SEASON INSTRUCTIONS*, *NOTE : Never add more than 1/2 cup (1 filled chip loader) at a time. Additional chips should not be added until any previously added chips have ceased generating smoke.  *My thoughts are if you fill the wood chip tray up completely, and open the front door, I would expect the chips to flame up.

Each person has the things they do to get the best results for them. If you add your experiences here please give all the facts, like that you fill the wood chip tray up completely with damp wood, to get 5 hours of smoke. That will reduce confusion. 

I am new to Smoking, if I have miss-typed or am wrong, please help me understand better.

Walk


----------



## domapoi

rgmoore1957 said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the retro chip tray? I would like to compare it to my tray.


Here is a link to a post that BSImages posted with some nice side by side pictures of the old and new tray that may help you.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...2010-upgrade-for-the-1st-generation-ss-mes-40

Hope this answers your question enough. I was also trying to find the video link that someone on here posted that showed the actual retro fit upgrade kit being installed (I thought it was posted by Bearcarver but I am not sure). I would love to find it again so I can put it in my bookmarks too.


----------



## kenrue

Just read my MES manual an it states"Close air damper on top of unit to retain moister and heat. If cooking foods such as fish or jerky, open air damper to release moisture.


----------



## grampshd57

Good day one and all
I have  purchased the Master Built Duel Smoker model 20050612 as my first smoker
Having never tried smoking anything before,I thought that it would be smart to start with a entry level unit
Have had great results with said smoker,has been rather cold this winter here in Canada so I have kept the top vent closed
Am I  doing the correct thing with said vent?
Want to enjoy my smoke meat and not make anyone sick from eating it
Any help would be grateful 













image.jpg



__ grampshd57
__ Mar 17, 2014


----------



## rex1

I have a masterbuilt 40 in.  I called master built and they told me the ideal position would be  have the vent half open. Lighter smoke flavor, fully open and for stronger smoke, close it.  I just smoked bacon and opened the vent half open and it was just like I like it.


----------



## Bearcarver

Rex1 said:


> I have a masterbuilt 40 in. I called master built and they told me the ideal position would be have the vent half open. Lighter smoke flavor, fully open and for stronger smoke, close it. I just smoked bacon and opened the vent half open and it was just like I like it.


There are a lot more experienced MES users on this forum than there are at the Masterbuilt office. 

I keep my top vent 100% open most of the time.

50% open when windy.

Fully closed only when Preheating----*Never closed when Smoking!!!  *

*Bear*


----------



## foamheart

Please do not poke the Bear with that stick. It's Sunday, let sleeping Bears lay.


----------



## bdskelly

Bearcarver said:


> There are a lot more experienced MES users on this forum than there are at the Masterbuilt office.
> 
> I keep my top vent 100% open most of the time.
> 
> 50% open when windy.
> 
> Fully closed only when Preheating----*Never closed when Smoking!!!  *
> 
> *Bear*










  b


----------



## kentuckycal

I've been smoking with the vent open since I got the MES a few months back and haven't had any issues doing it that way and have been getting satisfying levels of smoke flavor.

I'm about to do a smoke for the first time with the Masterbuilt cold smoker attached and will again leave vent all the way open.  Qview thread to follow.


----------



## bob p

I just bought my MES 30 inch unit this week through QVC.  The page that was posted is in my manual as well (page 3). I could find no publication date on the Manual.

Best,
Bob P


----------



## parrot-head

Related question:

What exactly does adding a 3" elbow-type vent to the top do?  Does it add to the circulation in any way?


----------



## foamheart

PaRRot-HeaD said:


> Related question:
> 
> What exactly does adding a 3" elbow-type vent to the top do?  Does it add to the circulation in any way?


I would direct that towards Dave. He's the engineer. Each fitting reduces flow due to turbulence and friction while each extention adds to flow, so it actually increases what the diameter of the pipe's flow function.

I think I read somewhere add three feet is basically like going from a 3" to a 4" vent in flow without having to change the physical box. That's something good when trying to draw a draft.

Dave's the man, he knows it all. He's one fart smeller, oooops, I meant smart fellar


----------



## kennyp1114

NorthernSmoke said:


> I picked up a Masterbuilt 30inch S/S smoker as a replacement smoker.  I had ribs to perfection in my old smoker but now I need to find my way again.
> 
> I noticed in the owner's manual, very little reference is made to position of vent for the smoker during use.  I believe it said to have completely open during jerky or fish and this is it.  I tried smoking three racks of ribs at 220F.  I had the vent completely closed and at 4hrs...  they were still gray and rubbery, I opened the vent wide open and the finally started to brown.  Not very good in the end.
> 
> Is there any advice with regards to vent position?  I have read a 1/16 inch to half to full open .
> 
> In my previous smoking experience, I have never wrapped anything in foil.  Am I missing something by not doing this?


----------



## kennyp1114

Hello fellow barbequing junkies. I purchased the MES electric smoker a month ago and i love it. It says in book the vent should always be closed. I open mine like every smoker i've had, but the book says leave it closed. I tried and the ribs tasted like lighter fluid. Not doing that again! Every person here and the site is awesome!


----------



## Bearcarver

kennyp1114 said:


> Hello fellow barbequing junkies. I purchased the MES electric smoker a month ago and i love it. It says in book the vent should always be closed. I open mine like every smoker i've had, but the book says leave it closed. I tried and the ribs tasted like lighter fluid. Not doing that again! Every person here and the site is awesome!


People on this Forum know how to use the MES units.

People in their office know how to sell them. The book tells us to soak the chips too, but most people here have learned not to do that.

The only time my top vent is closed is for pre-heating. Sometimes half open if windy. All other times 100% open.

Bear


----------



## jp61

kennyp1114 said:


> Hello fellow barbequing junkies. I purchased the MES electric smoker a month ago and i love it. *It says in book the vent should always be closed.* I open mine like every smoker i've had, but the book says leave it closed. I tried and the ribs tasted like lighter fluid. Not doing that again! Every person here and the site is awesome!


I find that hard to believe (though not impossible). Why even bother having a vent in that case?


----------



## bryant

Also you have to try the 2-2-1 method and I will depending upon how many racks I'm cooking turn the final temp up to 240 for the last 1/2 hour (but be careful until you have tried and tested your MES)   I've had mine for 4 years now (40") and it works out great.


----------



## kennyp1114

Oh yeah, i've been grilling and smoking for years, but just got the mes. Being from Memphis we were raised on grilling and smoking. That said i'm always open for advice because i'm sure there's a lot of things i don't know. I do know bbqing rocks. I cook everything outside! Thanks Bryant!!


----------



## kennyp1114

Bearcarver said:


> If you're talking about an MES Gen #1, you probably aren't getting much smoke because the bottom of the chip drawer is too far from the element, or there's an extra piece of metal between the drawer & the element. If that's your problem, you may still be able to get the FREE retro-fix chip burner from Masterbuilt, but the best way to fix it would be to get an AMNPS, and start really having fun smoking.
> 
> 
> Bear


Thanks,
Bear


----------



## kennyp1114

Bearcarver said:


> People on this Forum know how to use the MES units.
> 
> People in their office know how to sell them. The book tells us to soak the chips too, but most people here have learned not to do that.
> 
> The only time my top vent is closed is for pre-heating. Sometimes half open if windy. All other times 100% open.
> 
> 
> Bear


I hear you Bear, i never bbq without the vent. Wht would there be a vent!!


----------



## gary s

Cool


----------



## bdskelly

Like Bear My vent is always wide open. In fact I'd have to hunt the instructions up.. But thought mine read to cook with the vent OPEN rather than closed 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   The only time the vent is closed is to keep the bugs out when the smoker is not in use!  You need some air circulating in your machine for a number of reasons. Open it and keep it open. b


----------



## parrot-head

I leave it open....but I'm an idiot.  I never thought of closing it during preheating.













Reaganoid.gif



__ parrot-head
__ Dec 10, 2014


----------



## makesmiles

I just bought the MES 30 at Academy on 11/29/14 for $199.99. I ordered the cold smoker attachment from Amazon the next day for $58 (I think). I used it twice so far. My manual also says to keep the vent closed. I didn't pay any attention to that. I have smoked for years and I always open the vent at least some. On the MES, I close the vent during preheat and open half way during smoking. The cold smoker attachment will smoke for 4 to 5 hours without adding wood. It says not to use chunks, only chips. I used chips the first time and decided to try the chunks the second time. The chunks worked fine and smoked longer than the chips. Both cooks came out just fine. So far I am happy with both the smoker and the attachment. (Now if I could only get the wife to clean it. Then everything would be perfect.)


----------



## jimbo40

I also purchased a MES about a week ago from SAM's Club and the manual that's being referred too came in the box with the unit.

Manual Code: 98017140024 042314-18SS. The "Let's Get Started!" page as shown above is page 3.

Since I am new to using a smoker I called Masterbuilt Customer Service for more information on this topic and was advised  by a nice lady to always keep the "damper" halfway open and never closed.  I haven't tried to use my MES yet, but I am reading a lot before doing so. Thanks to all of you for all the very informative posts. I should be ready in about a week to do my first butt. Thanks all.


----------



## jted

Lets talk about the vent position. After about 20 or so hours your vent will be hard to operate. You will need to clean it ( with vinegar) this can be done simply by removing the 10 mm nut and the top comes off. Just clean it up and put it in a box some where. I will look like this













DSCN2463.JPG



__ jted
__ Jul 18, 2014






As you can see it is a 3" hole that is constricted by 40 %.  If Bear says you don't need it you don't need it.  If you want to close it at the preheat period most any thing can be sat on top.

My feeling is that you need something to promote good circulation within the box. This helps the pellets to burn. You can do this with a lot of different ways just put Mes smoke stack in the search bar. This is what I do for the time being.View media item 336193


----------



## Bearcarver

jimbo40 said:


> I also purchased a MES about a week ago from SAM's Club and the manual that's being referred too came in the box with the unit.
> 
> Manual Code: 98017140024 042314-18SS. The "Let's Get Started!" page as shown above is page 3.
> 
> Since I am new to using a smoker I called Masterbuilt Customer Service for more information on this topic and was advised  by a nice lady to always keep the "damper" halfway open and never closed.  I haven't tried to use my MES yet, but I am reading a lot before doing so. Thanks to all of you for all the very informative posts. I should be ready in about a week to do my first butt. Thanks all.


Since you'll be doing your first butt in your MES, maybe this will help:

*Pulled Boston Pork Butt*         

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver

jted said:


> Lets talk about the vent position. After about 20 or so hours your vent will be hard to operate. You will need to clean it ( with vinegar) this can be done simply by removing the 10 mm nut and the top comes off. Just clean it up and put it in a box some where. I will look like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSCN2463.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ jted
> __ Jul 18, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it is a 3" hole that is constricted by 40 %.  If Bear says you don't need it you don't need it.  If you want to close it at the preheat period most any thing can be sat on top.
> 
> My feeling is that you need something to promote good circulation within the box. This helps the pellets to burn. You can do this with a lot of different ways just put Mes smoke stack in the search bar. This is what I do for the time being.View media item 336193


Bear never said you don't need it. I would think having the whole 3" diameter open would be too much elimination of heat.

However If one wanted to, he could use a flat plate to close it off by laying it over the hole, and sliding it over some to allow what he wants for venting.

I find the amount of hole area in the stock vent to be just about right when opened 100%, so I keep my original vent in place.

Bear


----------



## jted

Bear I certainly did not mean to miss quote you I do apologize Jted


Bearcarver said:


> People on this Forum know how to use the MES units.
> 
> People in their office know how to sell them. The book tells us to soak the chips too, but most people here have learned not to do that.
> 
> The only time my top vent is closed is for pre-heating. Sometimes half open if windy. All other times 100% open.
> 
> Bear


----------



## Bearcarver

jted said:


> Bear I certainly did not mean to miss quote you I do apologize Jted


No Problem, Jted !!

Bear


----------



## kennyp1114

I tried once to smoke my meat with the vent closed on my MES per manuel instructions. I've never done that before and never will again. It was awful and i've been grilling all my life.


----------



## jp61

JP61 said:


> *I find that hard to believe (though not impossible).* Why even bother having a vent in that case?


Hmmm.... Not anymore..... " Close air damper on side of unit to retain moisture and heat. If cooking foods such as fish or jerky, open air damper to release moisture." 

I guess you could do this before or after applying smoke but not during.


----------



## bdskelly

Bearcarver said:


> Bear never said you don't need it. I would think having the whole 3" diameter open would be too much elimination of heat.
> 
> I find the amount of hole area in the stock vent to be just about right when opened 100%, so I keep my original vent in place.
> 
> Bear










   b


----------



## justkrook

I have the same manual for my MES. Its for model 20076314.

The manual code is 9807130085 022614-23GH

I've been leaving mine 1/2 way open and it works great. When I foil up my meat I close the vent.

I don't have any problems not getting enough smoke.

Cheers, Keith


----------



## kennyp1114

My MES smokes great! There is nothing bad i can say about it. Now i love smoking even more and was able to get the 30" digital electric smoker for 169.00 and free shipping. Well worth every penny and all you do is turn it on and relax.
Kenny


----------



## susieqz

may i please go off topic? early on, there was mention that closing vents increases moisture. also, that moisture was necessary for smoke to adhere.

so, vents should be closed if you live in an incredibly dry area/

i have an  icky trager with no way to close vents. i live in an incredibly dry area. does that mean i should close off vents with tinfoil for best smoke?


----------



## Bearcarver

susieqz said:


> may i please go off topic? early on, there was mention that closing vents increases moisture. also, that moisture was necessary for smoke to adhere.
> 
> so, vents should be closed if you live in an incredibly dry area/
> 
> i have an  icky trager with no way to close vents. i live in an incredibly dry area. does that mean i should close off vents with tinfoil for best smoke?


Hi Susiqz!

You should take that question to a Trager forum on the main index.

I don't think anyone on this Masterbuilt thread is going to close vents to increase moisture, and I don't find moisture necessary for smoke to adhere.

I can say that you shouldn't close off everything, or the smoke could get stagnant & get a bitter taste. The smoke has to keep moving, and can't be too heavy. You want "TBS".

Bear


----------



## foamheart

susieqz said:


> may i please go off topic? early on, there was mention that closing vents increases moisture. also, that moisture was necessary for smoke to adhere.
> 
> so, vents should be closed if you live in an incredibly dry area/
> 
> i have an  icky trager with no way to close vents. i live in an incredibly dry area. does that mean i should close off vents with tinfoil for best smoke?


Susie, ever smoker you ever smoke upon will have its on idiosyncrasys as well as the apparant reconized differences. Electrics and firebreathers are completely different, yet the same. You can't apply the some inherit function of snoking with charcoal with smoking with wood, it may be one of those differences. You'll just learn how you best want to use yours.

I have a couple of pipe pits with mo adjustment in the discharge, but vents in the suction. You just learn how to use them. Untill you get to a monster pit you really only need one vent to regulate air flow. Then in bigger you get one for fire heat and one for air flow, the you'll add a discharge, etc... its all about what you have to work with.

Add a pan of water if you think you need moisture. try it and see how it affects your next smoke and if you like it. Thats the old school way. Try it and see what you think. Everyone here not only smokes differently but enjoys they smae meat cooked differently Bite or no bite, sauce or no sauce, spices, woods, moisture..... its about you making your pit do it your way.

All this knowledge is great but not all will apply to you, your pit, or ya wants and style of smoking. Its up to you.


----------



## susieqz

thanks, foam. i'll try the pan of water thing. if i get more smoke taste i'll try reducing vents.


----------



## camcraig7

PadronMan said:


> I am leaving mine almost completely open and the unit holds heat well.  The bark and color so far are amazing.
> 
> As for the wood not burning?  Mine is set at 225F right now and the chips are turning to white ash.  I apparently got one of the good chip burners!!!


----------



## camcraig7

I have recently purchased a Masterbuilt smoker and could use some advice/tips for smoking a beef tenderloin.       205-389-5159. Thanks!!!!!


----------



## kentuckycal

I always leave the vent on my MES fully open now, which is working fine for me.  It's a good thing to because at this point it's jammed open and I'll need to give it a good cleaning to fix that.


----------



## Bearcarver

KentuckyCal said:


> I always leave the vent on my MES fully open now, which is working fine for me.  It's a good thing to because at this point it's jammed open and I'll need to give it a good cleaning to fix that.


Mine gets stuck when it cools, but moves easily once it warms up.

Bear


----------



## bdskelly

KentuckyCal said:


> I always leave the vent on my MES fully open now, which is working fine for me.  It's a good thing to because at this point it's jammed open and I'll need to give it a good cleaning to fix that.


Splash a little vinegar on it let it soak a bit and  then wipe it out with a paper towel. It will loosen up with no problem and the vinegar won't leave an after smell or taste.


----------



## kentuckycal

Bear, haven't tried to adjust it at temp yet... I'll give it a try and see.

Skelly, will try that too, thanks.


----------



## redbird

Good luck with this.  Before I used the smoke would would try some options with the vents versus temperature, I usually have the top vent pretty much open and the lower vents 25% open.  Get a thermometer that shows the heat at the smoking grills, don't use the one that came with the smoker.  Play with the vents until you can get about 225 degrees to hold steady.  I really like using big chunks of wood in the smoker box, I find that they smoke for a long time and give a great flavor.  Use an in-meat thermometer and smoke it until it is about 144 degrees.  Let it sit for 10 to 15 minutes before carving.  I'd prep the meet with just a bit of salt and pepper for the first time, you can try other rubs on your next one.


----------



## michelcoco

that is the best .or finish them on the bbq   with a nice tasty sauce


----------



## Bearcarver

redbird said:


> Good luck with this.  Before I used the smoke would would try some options with the vents versus temperature, I usually have the top vent pretty much open and the lower vents 25% open.  Get a thermometer that shows the heat at the smoking grills, don't use the one that came with the smoker.  Play with the vents until you can get about 225 degrees to hold steady.  I really like using big chunks of wood in the smoker box, I find that they smoke for a long time and give a great flavor.  Use an in-meat thermometer and smoke it until it is about 144 degrees.  Let it sit for 10 to 15 minutes before carving.  I'd prep the meet with just a bit of salt and pepper for the first time, you can try other rubs on your next one.


That's all very interesting, but what are you smoking & what smoker are you smoking it in.

This thread is about the top vent positioning in a Masterbuilt Electric Smokehouse.

It has no lower vents, and if you want it to hold at 225°, you just set it to hold at 225°.

Bear


----------



## thomas8977

Hey everyone. haven't posted on here in forever. I too have the manual MES 30 that has a little hole in the back of the smoker, not the top. I too have trouble with the smoke taste and everything, and the wood chips look like charcoal more than white ash. I have googled for the past week on finding alternatives. Smoke generators, plug the hole, not plug the hole. Then I saw the AMNPS. while its an awesome design and I haven't heard one bad comment about it, I was about to buy it, but I had an idea I want to throw at you all first before I buy it. Since the chip tray in the MES is stainless steel, why not put a very small amount of chips in and take a butane torch to it outside the smoker, let it burn to ambers, add more wood in and stick it in the smoker while its preheated. Would it come close to doing the same? Thank you all for your time and plan on smoking this Saturday when its a balmy 16 degrees for a high!


----------



## susieqz

if you like long smokes, the mes without the amns is worthless.

with it, i start the smoke just before bed, set the mavrick real high just to tell me if the mes bursts into flame.

then i go to bed,

after my morning coffee, i go out to check everything n maybe reload the amns.

sometimes the amns smokes all thru the night.

i like my sleep, that's my idea of smoking.

even with the traeger i gotta get up every 2 hours to add pellets.


----------



## Bearcarver

thomas8977 said:


> Hey everyone. haven't posted on here in forever. I too have the manual MES 30 that has a little hole in the back of the smoker, not the top. I too have trouble with the smoke taste and everything, and the wood chips look like charcoal more than white ash. I have googled for the past week on finding alternatives. Smoke generators, plug the hole, not plug the hole. Then I saw the AMNPS. while its an awesome design and I haven't heard one bad comment about it, I was about to buy it, but I had an idea I want to throw at you all first before I buy it. Since the chip tray in the MES is stainless steel, why not put a very small amount of chips in and take a butane torch to it outside the smoker, let it burn to ambers, add more wood in and stick it in the smoker while its preheated. Would it come close to doing the same? Thank you all for your time and plan on smoking this Saturday when its a balmy 16 degrees for a high!


Hi Thomas,

You could try that, however no matter how it works, I can guarantee it won't be anything like the pleasure you get from using an AMNPS. A full load in an AMNPS, once lit properly, can get you up to 10 or 12 consecutive hours of perfect, constant smoke without having to touch it again.

Bear


----------



## gary s

I like my AMNPS   does a great job

gary


----------



## jay styron

Hi All,

I just bought the MES 30" gen2(digital display up front), I also have the AMZN tube pellet smoker. I've used both a couple of times but don't like putting the tube on the bottom rack during smoking. I've also noticed that the tube smoker fits perfectly where the MES chip loader goes. Is there mods I can do to use that or does everyone just put it on the bottom rack?

Thanks

Jay


----------



## sota d

Hello Jay and welcome to the forum. I have the same smoker as you but haven't gotten an a-mz-n yet.(will soon). I did see on the a-mz-n website in the tube smoker instructions that you should not put it near a heat source, like right above the heating element. Hope this helps, David.


----------



## thomas8977

Alright. You all twisted my arm and I bought the amnps and a 20 pound bag of tragers hickory wood pellets. I'm ready to smoke! I hope that's a good brand.


----------



## susieqz

tom, that' my fav combo. the amns full of hickory. yum.

people say it's too strong for chicken, but try it.


----------



## thomas8977

Is there such a thing as too strong? Lol. Ill see if I can squeeze in some chicken. Gonna smoke 2 pork shoulders, a bunch of smoked sausage.....


----------



## domapoi

susieqz said:


> tom, that' my fav combo. the amns full of hickory. yum.
> 
> people say it's too strong for chicken, but try it.


Some say the same thing about mesquite but I love it when I smoke just about anything. Oh, yeah, to keep up with the current topic, I keep my vent open fully all the time no matter how "bone chilling cold" in gets here at the beach in San Diego, CA. LOL


----------



## bmaddox

Jay Styron said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just bought the MES 30" gen2(digital display up front), I also have the AMZN tube pellet smoker. I've used both a couple of times but don't like putting the tube on the bottom rack during smoking. I've also noticed that the tube smoker fits perfectly where the MES chip loader goes. Is there mods I can do to use that or does everyone just put it on the bottom rack?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jay


A lot of people on here (including myself) have a mailbox mod on our MES units for the AMNPS units. Use the search bar for some guides on the mailbox mod and you will see some great ideas.


----------



## Bearcarver

thomas8977 said:


> Is there such a thing as too strong? Lol. Ill see if I can squeeze in some chicken. Gonna smoke 2 pork shoulders, a bunch of smoked sausage.....


For some people maybe, but not foe me. All I ever use any more is Hickory---For all meats!!

Bear


----------



## foamheart

Bearcarver said:


> For some people maybe, but not foe me. All I ever use any more is Hickory---For all meats!!
> 
> Bear


Gonna change da'Bear's name to Andy Jackson..... ya know he even resembles his iron will. (Andy resembles Da Bear that is)


----------



## Bearcarver

Foamheart said:


> Gonna change da'Bear's name to Andy Jackson..... ya know he even resembles his iron will. (Andy resembles Da Bear that is)


Don't be picking on my Great Uncle Andrew "Old Hickory" Jackson!!!!

Don't forget what happened to Charles Dickinson!! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Bear


----------



## jted

For many years I used white oak because that was what I had on the wood pile for the fireplace. When I could cut hickory I reserved it for the smoker. Oak is a plentiful wood in Central Virginia. Hickory in the AMNPS is great as well as Tod's Pitt master mix.   Jted


----------



## foamheart

Bearcarver said:


> Don't be picking on my Great Uncle Andrew "Old Hickory" Jackson!!!!
> 
> Don't forget what happened to Charles Dickinson!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bear


200 years ago? Almost exactly!


----------



## ozsmoker

i've smoked 2 briskets and 3-4 sets of ribs... i feel like the meat has come out dry every time... i live in the desert with very little humidity so if closed vents help i will try that. i always have them fully open

i feel like the amnps won't work with the vents closed. i haven't had much luck with it as is.


----------



## Bearcarver

ozsmoker said:


> i've smoked 2 briskets and 3-4 sets of ribs... i feel like the meat has come out dry every time... i live in the desert with very little humidity so if closed vents help i will try that. i always have them fully open
> 
> i feel like the amnps won't work with the vents closed. i haven't had much luck with it as is.


I wouldn't think the reason they came out dry was because of the vent being open fully.

Other reasons could be opening door too often, smoking too low too long----Try a higher heat for less time.

We'd almost have to know all your details to see why they came out dry.

Bear


----------



## gary s

Pictures of the meat before, during and after will help

Gary


----------



## ozsmoker

Bearcarver said:


> I wouldn't think the reason they came out dry was because of the vent being open fully.
> 
> Other reasons could be opening door too often, smoking too low too long----Try a higher heat for less time.
> 
> We'd almost have to know all your details to see why they came out dry.
> 
> Bear


did st louis ribs for the first time today, they came out better than anything i've done, not perfect but very good... 3-2-1 method, only opened the door in between steps.

i will definitely experiment with higher heat and less cook time. thanks for the tip

with the vent fully closed (90% closed, as it doesn't close completely), the temperature fluctuation was almost completely gone. it stayed a steady 225 for almost the entire cook... with the vent fully opened,  i'd get down to 215 and up to 240+... it would cycle the heating element on and off. i was pretty surprised the vent position has such a huge impact on the stability of temps

also, my woodchips wood last about 1hr as opposed to 30-40 mins with vents fully opened


gary s said:


> Pictures of the meat before, during and after will help
> 
> Gary


yes i will do this next time... i'll get the wife to take them as my hands usually get food/oil/sauce on them

i'll have to look into the mailbox mod because i want to use my amnps and it won't work if i have the vent closed

not sure if it's with all st louis ribs, but these seemed to have a lot of cartilage/inedible parts vs almost none on baby backs


----------



## jted

ozsmoker said:


> did st louis ribs for the first time today, they came out better than anything i've done, not perfect but very good... 3-2-1 method, only opened the door in between steps.
> 
> i will definitely experiment with higher heat and less cook time. thanks for the tip
> 
> with the vent fully closed (90% closed, as it doesn't close completely), the temperature fluctuation was almost completely gone. it stayed a steady 225 for almost the entire cook... with the vent fully opened,  i'd get down to 215 and up to 240+... it would cycle the heating element on and off. i was pretty surprised the vent position has such a huge impact on the stability of temps
> 
> also, my woodchips wood last about 1hr as opposed to 30-40 mins with vents fully opened
> 
> yes i will do this next time... i'll get the wife to take them as my hands usually get food/oil/sauce on them
> 
> i'll have to look into the mailbox mod because i want to use my amnps and it won't work if i have the vent closed
> 
> not sure if it's with all st louis ribs, but these seemed to have a lot of cartilage/inedible parts vs almost none on baby backs


Hi, I am glad to hear about your cook. Lot of folks will chime in on your vent position. I for one truly believe that once the smoker is up to temp you keep it open. A little  fluctuation of the temp doesn't matter. 20 degrees either way does not matter just turn up your controller 5 or 10 degrees.  We smoke not cook in a oven. My oven fluctuates  check yours.

What I want to talk about is the 2 different cuts of Ribs. Spares and Loin back ,Loin back ribs come from the upper part of the hog. The spare ribs come from the bottom of the hog near the Belly depending on the processor the spares have a bit of belly(bacon meat)  on them. The spares have more fat to render out and you are right the baby backs are meaty. Smaller more expensive but meatier. The Saint Lewis cut is just the center of the spare ribs. They look good on your platter but some of the tastiest meat is removed. Last season the spares were running from 1.99 to about 2.49 per pound the Saint Lewis cuts were about 2.50 to 3.00 and the baby backs ran up to 3.50 or more. I use a good sharp chefs knife and can make those Saint Lewis cuts and have the tasty meat you don't get with the butcher shop cut in just a couple of slices. One of the cuts I make is to take off the cartridge and meat from the side of the spares.  That pesky membran takes me as long as the trimming. Before you give up on spares cook several and get proficient at trimming. It's all about the journey. A good time to develop great BBQ bean receipt is during rib cooks.

Just a thought.   Jted


----------



## bmaddox

jted said:


> Hi, I am glad to hear about your cook. Lot of folks will chime in on your vent position. I for one truly believe that once the smoker is up to temp you keep it open. A little  fluctuation of the temp doesn't matter. 20 degrees either way does not matter just turn up your controller 5 or 10 degrees.  We smoke not cook in a oven. My oven fluctuates  check yours.


^^^^ This. With the vent closed you are not allowing the air to circulate and you are really just baking at that point. In order to achieve a quality smoked product you need the maintain air flow to move fresh smoke across the food. You don't want to end up with stale smoke or your smoker filling with too much smoke.


----------



## gary s

The only time mine is closed is when I am through smoking to keep the rain and bugs out

Gary


----------



## Bearcarver

ozsmoker said:


> did st louis ribs for the first time today, they came out better than anything i've done, not perfect but very good... 3-2-1 method, only opened the door in between steps.
> 
> i will definitely experiment with higher heat and less cook time. thanks for the tip
> 
> with the vent fully closed (90% closed, as it doesn't close completely), the temperature fluctuation was almost completely gone. it stayed a steady 225 for almost the entire cook... with the vent fully opened,  i'd get down to 215 and up to 240+... it would cycle the heating element on and off. i was pretty surprised the vent position has such a huge impact on the stability of temps
> 
> also, my woodchips wood last about 1hr as opposed to 30-40 mins with vents fully opened
> 
> yes i will do this next time... i'll get the wife to take them as my hands usually get food/oil/sauce on them
> 
> i'll have to look into the mailbox mod because i want to use my amnps and it won't work if i have the vent closed
> 
> not sure if it's with all st louis ribs, but these seemed to have a lot of cartilage/inedible parts vs almost none on baby backs


A lot of good answers above, so if I duplicate, it's only to emphasize a point:

I don't do St Louis cuts any more. I find smoking the whole rack keeps the ribs a lot more moist.

The only time my MES top vent is closed is when preheating, and after the smoke is over---to keep bugs out while not in use. So if your AMNPS doesn't work good with your top vent closed, that's good---nobody's does, because your top vent should not be closed. Mine is nearly always fully open.  Therefore you shouldn't need the Mailbox.

I generally do Ribs at between 225° and 250° smoker temp. When I said higher heat & less time, I was talking more about your Brisket---Not your Ribs.

Bear


----------



## foamheart

bmaddox said:


> ^^^^ This. With the vent closed you are not allowing the air to circulate and you are really just baking at that point. In order to achieve a quality smoked product you need the maintain air flow to move fresh smoke across the food. You don't want to end up with stale smoke or your smoker filling with too much smoke.


Thats not true. I smoked for almost 30 years in a ventless analog smoker, wore three of them out. Still have all three in the barn. You are trying it impose the way a fire breather works upon an electric. Its fine it works. But it also works in an sealed contained enviroment with no detrimental effcet to the taste of the smoked meat. I did it for 30 years, if you don't believe it I would gladly show you.

I like the vents on MES smokers, I couldn't maintain temp let alone smoke on my pits (Charcoal and split burners), but you do not require a vent to smoke delicious meat. I have been doing it for too many years for it to be an accident.

And as to stale smoke, think about what you are saying. Because its has an incomplete combustion doesn't make it stale.

Thionk about it, professional chefs use a chip tray with wetted chips in their commercial ovens and their smoked foods are also delicious. Fully open vents are not the only way you can smoke.


----------



## bmaddox

Foamheart said:


> Thats not true. I smoked for almost 30 years in a ventless analog smoker, wore three of them out. Still have all three in the barn. You are trying it impose the way a fire breather works upon an electric. Its fine it works. But it also works in an sealed contained enviroment with no detrimental effcet to the taste of the smoked meat. I did it for 30 years, if you don't believe it I would gladly show you.
> 
> I like the vents on MES smokers, I couldn't maintain temp let alone smoke on my pits (Charcoal and split burners), but you do not require a vent to smoke delicious meat. I have been doing it for too many years for it to be an accident.
> 
> And as to stale smoke, think about what you are saying. Because its has an incomplete combustion doesn't make it stale.
> 
> Thionk about it, professional chefs use a chip tray with wetted chips in their commercial ovens and their smoked foods are also delicious. Fully open vents are not the only way you can smoke.


I'm sure it can and has been done. I have only used a few electric models but the common theme that I see is that you need a good, constant airflow to allow for the wood to burn cleanly (regardless of what type of wood you are using). The MES units are designed to create a chimney that draws air in from the chip loader and out of the vent. If you cut off the vent than you are interrupting the chimney.

That's just my opinion and considering there are people on here that have been at this longer than I have been alive I'm willing to bet that there is a counter point to all of my opinions (but at least I keep learning 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






)


----------



## Bearcarver

bmaddox said:


> I'm sure it can and has been done. I have only used a few electric models but the common theme that I see is that you need a good, constant airflow to allow for the wood to burn cleanly (regardless of what type of wood you are using). The MES units are designed to create a chimney that draws air in from the chip loader and out of the vent. If you cut off the vent than you are interrupting the chimney.
> 
> That's just my opinion and considering there are people on here that have been at this longer than I have been alive I'm willing to bet that there is a counter point to all of my opinions (but at least I keep learning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I never cared for stale smoke either. I would guess it depends on the smoke, but I like mine to be moving from the generation to the exit vent, and going by the meat on the way.

Bear


----------



## gary s

I can only speak from a stick burner standpoint I always have my smoke stack vent (Damper )   wide open  control the heat and smoke with the dampers on the FB 

Gary


----------



## ozsmoker

appreciate the feedback, i will have to take video next time so you guys can see the smoke leaving the vent even when completely closed

i really feel that the main reason the meat was drying out on previous cooks was because of the heating element cycling on/off (vent fully opened) vs maintaining a more constant temperature (vent closed)


----------



## jpfol

Hello MythMaster,

I bought a Masterbuilt Pro 30 and am having some fun with it. I already did all of the pre-proofing required for the grill last night.

I have a few things going today on it and saw a big drop in temp when I put my first items on. Granted, I took the pre-rubbed meats out of the fridge and realized it could drop the temp, but that was an hour ago, the temp went up (set to 275) to about 230 but then dropped to 195. The only difference was I added soaked wood chips after the first hour. I am thinking the Susy Homemaker 'soak your wood chips' suggestion doesn't work with the way this little $270 plus bad boy was designed. I get the vents, I learned them on a kettle grill.

I am thinking soaked wood chips nailed me. Could this have impacted the heating element? I am thinking it did. Thanks.


----------



## foamheart

JpFol said:


> Hello MythMaster,
> 
> I bought a Masterbuilt Pro 30 and am having some fun with it. I already did all of the pre-proofing required for the grill last night.
> 
> I have a few things going today on it and saw a big drop in temp when I put my first items on. Granted, I took the pre-rubbed meats out of the fridge and realized it could drop the temp, but that was an hour ago, the temp went up (set to 275) to about 230 but then dropped to 195. The only difference was I added soaked wood chips after the first hour. I am thinking the Susy Homemaker 'soak your wood chips' suggestion doesn't work with the way this little $270 plus bad boy was designed. I get the vents, I learned them on a kettle grill.
> 
> I am thinking soaked wood chips nailed me. Could this have impacted the heating element? I am thinking it did. Thanks.


Actually, with an electric there are trade offs from a firebreather. The firebreather loses humifity. Therefore it is usually moped spritzed or sauced in an attempt to maintain moisture, even to the point of putting water trays in the pit. Every time its opened though it recoups the lost heat almost immediately.

Electrics maintain their mioisture great, they do not need to be opened so they do not need mopping spritzing or saucing. BUT if you open the CC and release the heat its does take much longer to recoup that lose. I have read that it took 15 mins., that seems excessive to me, but lets say 10 mins. If you only open that door once and hour, on a 12 hour smoke, you have added 2 extra hours to your cooking time just trying to recoup those temperature loses.

Most here agree that soaking is not a good thing. I can see only two possibile reasons. By wetting the chips you help prevent flash over. Thats when chips flash combust instead of slow smoldering. It is very possible to do this. The second and what I consider the most likely, the optium smoking temp is about 100 to 150 IT, thats what I have seen suggested by those I respect their opinions. Prior to approx 100 the meat is still wet and wet doesn't absorb the smoke as well as dry, its why we all try to achieve a pellicle before smoking. I am guessing now but at approx. 150, I have heard the meat since smoking since 100 IT is full of smoke. I am not saying that meat will not accept smoke below 100 (Like cold smoking it takes forever) and I am not saying that at 150 the meat cuts off and will not accept more smoke. BUT I do believe that above and below these magic numbers it absorbs at a diminished capcity.  LOL.... ALL that being said, I think the wetting of the chips helps allow the meat to come to temp. before allowing starting the smoke. Helping to keep it in that maxium asorption range better.

Is that a long winded explaination or what? LOL

I don't normally soak chips, I do although normally allow the meat to rest in the smoker about an hour before adding my chips/shells/splits/chunks, etc. etc.

Leave that door closed, and you'll have supper sooner. BUT as in all advice given here, I HIGHLY recommend that no matter what you are advised, try it yourself and draw your own conclusions.


----------



## smokedude

Even though I am new to this I followed the advice of leaving it wide open.  Only close for preheat.


----------



## jted

*Foam*,has given great advice, not all that long winded for the information given just a word about heat loss, I opened the door  on my MES30 just to sap a couple of pictures
the butts had been smoking for about 4 hours so the box was hot and stable. I had my camera ready and when opening all I did was snap 2 photos in less than 30 seconds my box dropped 35 degrees it went from 250 to 215 as soon as I opened the door. The ambient temperature was near 80 degrees so that was not a problem. I have insulation on my smoker not for the warm up but for retaining and recouping lost heat.













DSCN2969.JPG



__ jted
__ May 5, 2015


















DSCN2972.JPG



__ jted
__ May 5, 2015






I can tell you that  heat loss is greater early in the smoke.


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## gary s

How long did it take to recover ?   On my RF temp always drops when I open the door, but  goes right back up in just a few min. So not a big deal, for me anyway

Gary


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## Bearcarver

jted said:


> *Foam*,has given great advice, not all that long winded for the information given just a word about heat loss, I opened the door  on my MES30 just to sap a couple of pictures
> the butts had been smoking for about 4 hours so the box was hot and stable. I had my camera ready and when opening all I did was snap 2 photos in less than 30 seconds my box dropped 35 degrees it went from 250 to 215 as soon as I opened the door. The ambient temperature was near 80 degrees so that was not a problem. I have insulation on my smoker not for the warm up but for retaining and recouping lost heat.
> 
> I can tell you that  heat loss is greater early in the smoke.





gary s said:


> How long did it take to recover ?   On my RF temp always drops when I open the door, but  goes right back up in just a few min. So not a big deal, for me anyway
> 
> Gary


Good question Gary---That's the important part---Getting back up.

It would be my guess after smoking at 250° for 4 hours, then dropping to 215°, it would take about 3 to 5 minutes to get back to 250°.

How about it Jted???

Bear


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## gary s

If it only takes a few minutes to recover opening the door is no big deal unless you are constantly opening it. Just remember it's not the temp drop, But the recovery time.

Gary


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## foamheart

" I had my camera ready and when opening all I did was snap 2 photos in *less than 30 seconds* my box dropped 35 degrees it went from 250 to 215 as soon as I opened the door. The ambient temperature was near 80 degrees so that was not a problem. I have insulation on my smoker not for the warm up but for retaining and recouping lost heat."

I would guess that most folks are not that quick. Leaving the door open to change or adjust or just shake and check the chip tray, maybe a spritz or mope the meat thinking it a firebreather, pushing, turning or flipping the meat like a fire breather, checking that the chips are again smoking, and of course the pictures.

Most folks until educated think an electric operates the same as a firebreather. It doesn't, we here show them how to modify it to make it operate more to that understanding. Which if it allows them better control and a more enjoyable smoking experience is not a bad thing. It doesn't matter how you reach your smoking Nirvana, only that the state is achieved.


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## Bearcarver

With my MES 40, I don't mop or spritz, I usually take pics at the start, then through the glass, and then when the meat is done.

I don't use the chip drawer, because I'm 100% AMNPS---11 hours on it's own.

So the only time I open my door is if I'm using my heat deflector, and I have to adjust it, and that takes about 3 seconds.

And if I foil something, I remove it (door open less than 10 seconds), foil it & add juice if needed, Put it back in (another less than 10 seconds).

That's about it for my door opening once things are going.

Bear


----------



## foamheart

Bearcarver said:


> With my MES 40, I don't mop or spritz, I usually take pics at the start, then through the glass, and then when the meat is done.
> 
> I don't use the chip drawer, because I'm 100% AMNPS---11 hours on it's own.
> 
> So the only time I open my door is if I'm using my heat deflector, and I have to adjust it, and that takes about 3 seconds.
> 
> And if I foil something, I remove it (door open less than 10 seconds), foil it & add juice if needed, Put it back in (another less than 10 seconds).
> 
> That's about it for my door opening once things are going.
> 
> Bear


And that is how it should be. But most folks new to electrics don't realize that. They expect it to react the same as a firebreather, only easier. They realize the difference when explained, of course, but its something most never even think about until they can't get their pulled pork done.


----------



## milo the silo

I've haven't tried the molasses thing but looks like a good idea.  Normally I just rub with mustard, apply the rub and brown sugar the night before, smoke at 225 using the 3-2-1 method.  When wrapping in foil, I melt butter and pour over the whole rack, smoke for another 2 hours.  Take them out of the foil and 225 for another hour.  

No complaints yet but maybe the molasses will even get me a kiss from Mama.  

Happy smokin' ya'll.............


----------



## daricksta

Bearcarver said:


> For some people maybe, but not foe me. All I ever use any more is Hickory---For all meats!!
> 
> Bear


For some people maybe, but not foe me. All I ever use any more is Hickory---For all meats!! Oh, Bear! That's like being an artist but only painting with yellow. Granted there aren't as many wood pellet flavors to be found as in a painter's palette but you can create all kinds of flavor profiles by using different woods or even a mix of a couple of woods. I smoked a tri-tip roast a couple of weeks ago and used mesquite pellets when Jeff Phillips suggested hickory or oak because I wanted a particular smoky flavor--like it had been grilled over mesquite. It worked.


----------



## jted

Bearcarver said:


> Good question Gary---That's the important part---Getting back up.
> 
> It would be my guess after smoking at 250° for 4 hours, then dropping to 215°, it would take about 3 to 5 minutes to get back to 250°.
> 
> How about it Jted???
> 
> Bear


My MES 30 only gained 3 or 4 degrees per minute  so a recovery of say a good 10 minutes. When I had a stick burner (off set) the recovery time was faster but then I just opened the vent if I wanted more heat.  Jted


----------



## Bearcarver

daRicksta said:


> For some people maybe, but not for me. All I ever use any more is Hickory---For all meats!! Oh, Bear! That's like being an artist but only painting with yellow. Granted there aren't as many wood pellet flavors to be found as in a painter's palette but you can create all kinds of flavor profiles by using different woods or even a mix of a couple of woods. I smoked a tri-tip roast a couple of weeks ago and used mesquite pellets when Jeff Phillips suggested hickory or oak because I wanted a particular smoky flavor--like it had been grilled over mesquite. It worked.


Yeah---I know----But every now & then I try a couple others, but end up back at Hickory. I guess I would have gotten along with Andy Jackson real good!!!

Bear


jted said:


> My MES 30 only gained 3 or 4 degrees per minute  so a recovery of say a good 10 minutes. When I had a stick burner (off set) the recovery time was faster but then I just opened the vent if I wanted more heat.  Jted


Hmm---That's pretty long. I'm sure it's longer when the big hunk of meat is cold too. I would do more like I said above---Take Pics before & After. Don't Spritz or Mop. And maybe look into some sand in the water pan, covered with foil. That would shorten the recovery time.

Bear


----------



## daricksta

Bearcarver said:


> Yeah---I know----But every now & then I try a couple others, but end up back at Hickory. I guess I would have gotten along with Andy Jackson real good!!!
> 
> Bear
> 
> Hmm---That's pretty long. I'm sure it's longer when the big hunk of meat is cold too. I would do more like I said above---Take Pics before & After. Don't Spritz or Mop. And maybe look into some sand in the water pan, covered with foil. That would shorten the recovery time.
> 
> Bear


Truth be told, I'd say my favorite smoking wood _is_ hickory because, like it is for you, it's my favorite flavor. My favorite smoking wood to _smell_ is oak. I've got a neighbor who I think is into smoking because I smell the oak smoke throughout the summer. It always upsets me when I smell his smoke instead of him smelling mine!

When I open the door of my MES 30 during a smoke the temp can drop up to 40° if I leave it open for about a minute (depending on what I'm doing). Recovery time can take up to 15-20 minutes which is why I do my best to limit when I need to open the door. However, over the term of a 3-6 hour smoke, I consider the recovery time negligible. During a stall period the door remains closed until the meat's moved past it.


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## five string

Bearcarver:

That link doesn't work...says page not found. They give you instructions that don't work either to get to the video. I've searched the site and can't find the video you are referring to.

Five String


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## five string

Disregard my post re: video link....for some reason it posted here....sorry

Five String


----------



## greywolf1

Bearcarver said:


> Yeah---I know----But every now & then I try a couple others, but end up back at Hickory. I guess I would have gotten along with Andy Jackson real good!!!
> 
> Bear
> 
> Hmm---That's pretty long. I'm sure it's longer when the big hunk of meat is cold too. I would do more like I said above---Take Pics before & After. Don't Spritz or Mop. And maybe look into some sand in the water pan, covered with foil. That would shorten the recovery time.
> 
> Bear


I like the idea of the sand in the water pan Bear , but I have a buddy that has a fireplace built of field stones and they retain the heat for a very long time . I was thinking of experimenting with polished stones , less chance of a dust storm on a windy day . I'll post the results on my findings


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## Bearcarver

Good idea!!

I w wouldn't worry about sand blowing around if it's covered with foil.

However I never put anything in my water pan---I just keep the door closed, as I explained above.

The reason I have never put anything in my pan is I don't want it to take forever to heat the sand, bricks, or stones at start-up, especially during the Winter.

Bear


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## bmaddox

Bearcarver said:


> -I just keep the door closed


And this is why I love the window. With the window to visually inspect the progress, my AMNPS in a mailbox mod, and my Maverick probes I can go all day without having to open the smoker door once. After a few hours of cooking my MES starts to hold it temps really well. As soon as I open the door the temp swings come back. I guess sand in the water pan would help that but I open the door so infrequently it is a non issue for me.


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## philliro

I have had my 30" Masterbuilt for about a year and with several slabs of practice I am now making very good ribs consistently. I too was uncertain about the venting but here is what I generally do. I generally open the vent all the way until I see smoke start to appear. I think it helps to get the wood chips smoldering - then after smoke appears I close it to about 1/4 of the way open. From that point I just leave it.

I have tried both wrapping and not wrapping, and overall I think its well worth the trouble to wrap. The 3-2-1 methodworks fine but lately I have been happier with 3-2.5-.5; (that's 3 hours of smoke, 2.5 hours wrapped in foil with just good sprtiz of apple juice on the bottom of the foil, and then half and hour unwrapped to set a sauce glaze, and add a last touch of smoke.

Keep practicing. You can almost eat your experiments!

Bob P


----------



## Bearcarver

bmaddox said:


> And this is why I love the window. With the window to visually inspect the progress, my AMNPS in a mailbox mod, and my Maverick probes I can go all day without having to open the smoker door once. After a few hours of cooking my MES starts to hold it temps really well. As soon as I open the door the temp swings come back. I guess sand in the water pan would help that but I open the door so infrequently it is a non issue for me.


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## daricksta

That's what I like about the 3-2-1 method: it's not set in stone. I always do variations of it if I've forgotten to foil or unfoil it the ribs on time. The method still works.


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## greywolf1

I smoked pork loin steaks last night with the vent closed for the first time , ( not the first time for the steaks but the first time with the vent closed) I am now using wood bits not wood chips , they seem to work great even at 190 in my MES , what I did find was the flavor was a little stronger which I don't mind but the wife did (happy wife happy life) .Other then that , the wood bits smoldered just fine , I got the hickory flavor but I will go back to 1/3 open  just to keep all happy in the house hold


----------



## daricksta

greywolf1 said:


> I like the idea of the sand in the water pan Bear , but I have a buddy that has a fireplace built of field stones and they retain the heat for a very long time . I was thinking of experimenting with polished stones , less chance of a dust storm on a windy day . I'll post the results on my findings


I tried filling the water pan with sand once--once. Now, I lift my MES 30 Gen 1 onto a small card table which I use for a stand. After I finish smoking and everything is cooled down I lower it back down onto a small hand truck where I secure it with bungee cords and wheel it into my garage. Well, the next time I took the smoker out and opened the door I saw all this damp sand piled up along the back wall of the smoker. I had thought the foil over the water pan would keep the sand in but I was woefully wrong. After spending about 30 minutes or so scraping and wiping and cleaning every bit of wet sand I could reach I decided no more sand for the water pan.

I keep it empty and foiled over. As a heat sink, there's been no difference in temperature stabilization between using a full or empty water pan. The primary function of the water pan, for me, is to catch drippings in the foil cover.


----------



## mummel

At the risk of skipping through 18 pages, in short, vent wide open and loader pulled out 2 inches in the dump position for the AMPS to work?


----------



## bmaddox

mummel said:


> At the risk of skipping through 18 pages, in short, vent wide open and loader pulled out 2 inches in the dump position for the AMPS to work?


It depends on the unit. Every unit works differently based on location, elevation, temperature, etc. You will just have to use it and see how it goes.


----------



## mummel

Im at sea level so I guess thats a plus.  My hope would be to close the vent as much as possible to use less energy but not to a point where I get creosote.  How will I know it's forming before its too late?


----------



## bmaddox

mummel said:


> Im at sea level so I guess thats a plus.  My hope would be to close the vent as much as possible to use less energy but not to a point where I get creosote.  How will I know it's forming before its too late?


I would guess that the amount of energy conserved by closing the vent is virtually un-measurable. You are talking about the difference between 1 square inch when it is open or 1/4 square inch when it is "closed" (mine does not close completely). The 2.5 might have a larger vent but it is still a small area and a small amount of air flow.


----------



## foamheart

The vent position is more a personal prefrence than a requirement of any position. Using an AMPs, I normally preheat to 275 with the vent closed. Then just before adding the AMPs to the smoking chamber I open the vent 100% to insure a good draft thru the chamber. 30 mins. later I will come back and regulate the vent for two reasons, it does allow less work by the heating element, thereby smoking with less heat, less smoke required, less chance of too much smoke. Too much smoke causes an incomplete burn and forms cresote.  Stale air does not do it, incomplete combustion does.

Also as almost quickly skipped over above, regulating air flow also allows both a longer smoke from the AMPs as well as requiring less to be needed. I have gotten 18 to 20 hours smoke from my AMPs by regulation. With 100% vent I believe its 12 hours?

Vent open, vent regulated, vent shut, all when done properly will produce quality smoke. You just have to learn how to do each correctly.

There is no right or wrong, only what you decide is right for you. Easiest is vent full open, less chance of mistakes or needing to figure out how to regulate. Completely closed off is also easy, if you have the patience to learn. Regulated is the best of both worlds.


----------



## daricksta

mummel said:


> At the risk of skipping through 18 pages, in short, vent wide open and loader pulled out 2 inches in the dump position for the AMPS to work?


That's what Todd has recommended for the Gen 2. Not necessary for the Gen 1 and I'm not sure about the 2.5. I always recommend doing the minimum. Try it with the loader all the way in and see if there's adequate airflow. If the AMNPS snuffs itself out then try pulling out the loader. The few times I tried pulling the loader out a couple of inches I left it fill side up.


----------



## daricksta

mummel said:


> Im at sea level so I guess thats a plus.  My hope would be to close the vent as much as possible to use less energy but not to a point where I get creosote.  How will I know it's forming before its too late?


I read in a couple of places that my the very nature of electric smokers that use wood chips or pellets creosote buildup is not an issue. I think that creosote is more of a problem with stick burners and with charcoal. Most of don't even smoke above 250° and I think especially with the AMNPS not nearly enough smoke is generated to produce much if any creosote. I just did some reading and apparently inadequate airflow at high temperatures while smoking can cause creosote (smoke solids) to build up. So this just confirms what I just said about creosote in our MES units not being an issue.

Personally, how I get my smoker and AMNPS going is this: After placing the ET-733 probes where I want them I set the smoker temp at 275° although it's never going to get close to that before I put the meat in. I always have the top vent wide open. So, while the MES is warming up I fill as many rows of the AMNPS I think I'll need with the pellets of my choice, and then slather gelled alcohol on top the first inch, inside the lighting hole, and the first inch underneath. I light the gelled alcohol, set it down on the ground, and let it burn for 20-30 minutes. By that time the AMNPS is going strong and will stay lit throughout the smoke or until it's burned up all the pellets.

At about the 30 minute mark the MES is close to my set point if not right at it. It's then I put the meat in and insert the FOOD probe into the meat if I'm smoking brisket or pork shoulder. I then insert the AMNPS with the burning side facing the rear wall, close the door, and that's all she wrote until I need to turn the meat over or cover it with foil or something. It's really just that breezy and easy for me.


----------



## foamheart

Every unit is different. This is how I best explain it. IF you are going to use only the AMPs its OK to slightly position yout reloader out.

Like this:













016.JPG



__ foamheart
__ Jun 3, 2015






The reason is the small amount of suction available. Three small holes, thats it. These are the holes located on the reload tube. Now you can also pull a draft from the drip hole, but again is very small.













010 (2).JPG



__ foamheart
__ Jun 3, 2015






What you MUST remember, too much air can and does cause a flash. Thats an explosion of fire caused by too much O2. Thats why these are only small holes. Safety.

When you MUST have the reloader in the chamber and securely locked is when you are using chips in the tray. It is very very easy to get a flash with dry chips with the vent open and the reloader even slightly ajar. BTW, its pretty cool... first time surprized me, second time was to insure I knew what happened and why, the next couple was so I could show the neigh how cool it was..>>LOL It will blow the reload tube out of the box, and not just a little bit.

Be safe, remember if you are using the chip tray, secured and locked safely in place. If just the AMPs you can gain a small advantage if needed.

It also goes back to the unit. This was the chip tay I had.













005.JPG



__ foamheart
__ Jun 3, 2015






This is the next generation chip tray













001.JPG



__ foamheart
__ Jun 3, 2015






The new generation is only 1/2 the size of the above. I'll try and get a picture tomorrow if I remember.

That large chip tray when it flashed ..... it made that reloader tube look like one of those Estes Rocket kits from my childhood! The next Gen tray I never saw flash, I have not yet had my 2.5 gen plugged in yet,but I'll let you know. Its soooooo small!

Again for safety sake, if using chips turn and lock that loader. The AMPs doesn't flash so you'll be fine to crack it if needed.


----------



## rick rambo

I got my 30" MES this week and am using it for the first time now. the page indicated above IS in the manual that came with my smoker. I had not processed the information when I first looked at it.

pdf of the manual is here:

http://www.masterbuilt.com/pdf-manuals/IM20070312-ENG-SP-111312.pdf


----------



## jted

Rick, The smoker is new to you. Don't worry about it now you know. The manual most likely didn't explain it as well as Foam did.

There are other things that the manual does not explain or just get wrong like soaking your chips . Ask that question and get the correct answer from the forum. The people that wrote the manual are only slightly more knowledgeable that you are. The beauty of the forum is you can ask any question and get good answers. Pick a couple of easy smokes and lean your smoker. Smoke a nice pork Tender loin it will cook fast and is easy . Try a rack of ribs using the 3-2-1 method it is easy also. Follow the instructions that can be found here and gain confidence and knowledge.   Jted


----------



## novegan007

I have an Masterbuilt, i've commented on this issue before. Humidity is a issue with this model. I use my at nearly commercial volume and even with a dry drip pan unless you are smoking a very small amount of meat it will steam, it's very difficult to get a bark. One work around is to do a final finish in an oven. I am going to try to do a mod with a small fan for some airflow. I use a different smoker for critical work.


----------



## daricksta

jted said:


> Rick, The smoker is new to you. Don't worry about it now you know. The manual most likely didn't explain it as well as Foam did.
> 
> There are other things that the manual does not explain or just get wrong like soaking your chips . Ask that question and get the correct answer from the forum. The people that wrote the manual are only slightly more knowledgeable that you are. The beauty of the forum is you can ask any question and get good answers. Pick a couple of easy smokes and lean your smoker. Smoke a nice pork Tender loin it will cook fast and is easy . Try a rack of ribs using the 3-2-1 method it is easy also. Follow the instructions that can be found here and gain confidence and knowledge.   Jted


I just looked at that manual. MB recommends heating the smoker to max temp for 30-45 minutes. I never do that. I don't understand why that needs to be done. The initial heating cycle takes the temp beyond the set point anyway until it lowers itself back down.


----------



## daricksta

Rick Rambo said:


> I got my 30" MES this week and am using it for the first time now. the page indicated above IS in the manual that came with my smoker. I had not processed the information when I first looked at it.
> 
> pdf of the manual is here:
> 
> http://www.masterbuilt.com/pdf-manuals/IM20070312-ENG-SP-111312.pdf


You've got a Gen 2 smoker. I've got a Gen 1 and keep the top vent wide open for all smokes.


----------



## yeagerbear

The remark about alcohol etc. was kinda funny after reading all the other hulabaloo...


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## wa0auu

We smoke at 250 with the vent 2/3's open for 2 hours.  We find after 2 hours of smoke it does not take on any more so more smoke is not needed.  

We REALLY ! like the rotisserie we put in our smoker !  look at this 9 pound beef roast we did today for our supper tonight.













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## jay styron

I've got the same one and keep the vent wide open.


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## daricksta

wa0auu said:


> We smoke at 250 with the vent 2/3's open for 2 hours.  We find after 2 hours of smoke it does not take on any more so more smoke is not needed.
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Where'd you get the rotisserie and how much work was it to install in your MES? How do you plug up the drilled holes when not using it?


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## ndweatherman

I certainly don't know much about the 30" Masterbuilt Electric Smoker since I just got it for Christmas and I'm in a very cold North Dakota, but on page 3 of my manual on the page labeled "Lets Get Started" it DOES say to CLOSE the air damper on the top of the unite to retain moisture and heat" Then it continues about opening it for foods such as fish or jerky.  I am thinking that the air damper and vent are likely the same thing.  Again, I'm not trying to start an argument, but it does appear the manual does address opening and closing of the vent on top. They just gave it a different name.


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## ndweatherman

BTW

The model of smoker from my last reply is 20070910


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## Bearcarver

ndweatherman said:


> I certainly don't know much about the 30" Masterbuilt Electric Smoker since I just got it for Christmas and I'm in a very cold North Dakota, but on page 3 of my manual on the page labeled "Lets Get Started" it DOES say to CLOSE the air damper on the top of the unite to retain moisture and heat" Then it continues about opening it for foods such as fish or jerky.  I am thinking that the air damper and vent are likely the same thing.  Again, I'm not trying to start an argument, but it does appear the manual does address opening and closing of the vent on top. They just gave it a different name.


The manual will also tell you to soak your chips, but anybody who uses an MES for awhile learns that's not a good idea. Same thing with water in the Pan (Bad idea).

There is a lot more guys on here who know much more than those who wrote the MES manual.

I keep my top vent open all the way at all times, except when it's Windy (Half-way), or when I'm preheating, or done smoking (closed)----And when not in use (closed).

For safety things, I listen to the manual, but for "How-to-use", I'll go with experienced Owner/users.

Bear


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## daricksta

ndweatherman said:


> I certainly don't know much about the 30" Masterbuilt Electric Smoker since I just got it for Christmas and I'm in a very cold North Dakota, but on page 3 of my manual on the page labeled "Lets Get Started" it DOES say to CLOSE the air damper on the top of the unite to retain moisture and heat" Then it continues about opening it for foods such as fish or jerky.  I am thinking that the air damper and vent are likely the same thing.  Again, I'm not trying to start an argument, but it does appear the manual does address opening and closing of the vent on top. They just gave it a different name.


I have the same smoker you do. I leave the top vent open during smoking, always.


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## ndweatherman

I just seasoned the smoker today and plan on using it tomorrow with the vent open.  I was going to soak the chips first, but on my "maiden voyage" I may try not soaking to see what happens.  Thanks for the tip.


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## boliverhardtail

I have read almost every post from the beginning of this thread to the end. I seasoned my MES 40" yesterday and smoking some St Louis ribs today. I did put water in the pan, I opened the nevt half way for the first hour and then all the way for the next two (using the 3-2-1 method). They are not done yet, getting ready to go into the final phase. I will let you know how they turn out. My first smoker and my first time smoking anything.


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## daricksta

boliverhardtail said:


> I have read almost every post from the beginning of this thread to the end. I seasoned my MES 40" yesterday and smoking some St Louis ribs today. I did put water in the pan, I opened the nevt half way for the first hour and then all the way for the next two (using the 3-2-1 method). They are not done yet, getting ready to go into the final phase. I will let you know how they turn out. My first smoker and my first time smoking anything.


What's great about smoking is that while there are certain basics, everyone has their own style. What's your style now may change as you gain experience and knowledge. To me that's part of the fun.


----------



## daricksta

ndweatherman said:


> I just seasoned the smoker today and plan on using it tomorrow with the vent open.  I was going to soak the chips first, but on my "maiden voyage" I may try not soaking to see what happens.  Thanks for the tip.


The MES owners manual doesn't advise to smoke the wood chips and that's for a good reason: it makes no difference. Besides you'll find it a gloopy mess loading wet wood chips into the MES from the chip loader. The chips are just fine remaining dry. I personally use wood pellets because loading chips all the time became a real hassle.


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## novegan007

I've commented on this before, the MES smoker does not give you much of a bark, especially if you are trying to go low and slow.it simply doesn't allow for good air flow, the vent is inadequate and as there is no bottom vents you can't manage humidity.  I use mine at nearly commercial volume. Don't get me wrong, I the MES unit has it's uses and i am not disappointed with it, I simply understand it's limitations. I suggest you use pellets and go with a dry drip pan.  I've supplied my restaurant with incredibly delicious hot smoked hams for several years. It's simply about knowing the equipments limitations.
Happy smoking!


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## novegan007

I don't care what anyone has said, i know there has been some negative comments on the mod but personally I love it. The idea of a self basting bird or roast while it is smoking is brilliant. Thanks for posting this, I love creativity


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## jted

ndweatherman said:


> I certainly don't know much about the 30" Masterbuilt Electric Smoker since I just got it for Christmas and I'm in a very cold North Dakota, but on page 3 of my manual on the page labeled "Lets Get Started" it DOES say to CLOSE the air damper on the top of the unite to retain moisture and heat" Then it continues about opening it for foods such as fish or jerky.  I am thinking that the air damper and vent are likely the same thing.  Again, I'm not trying to start an argument, but it does appear the manual does address opening and closing of the vent on top. They just gave it a different name.


Hi, I am sorry it's finely cold in your neck of the woods. I won't talk about the steady migration of NorthDakotanians to the South west. Let's talk about the writer of the Manual. That person had very little or no time using it. They were clueless about smoking on it. Bear uses the safety side of the manual and not the user side of it.

You have just joined and may not know it but he is a authority in the uses of MB Smokers. He will not lead you wrong. 

After several smokes of the normal meats you will know more about or have more experience than the Author of the manual or most of the CSR's at the call  center. Don't get me wrong the service they give is first rate but that is what MB wants. They just don't have the smoking time you will have.  The point I am making is that the Manual is wrong. 

Now I will give you my Opinions about the smoker. 

Keep the top vent open when smoking.

Don't wet your chips. 

Don't put water in your water pan .

Put foil on it and use it as a heat deflector. That is what it does best.

Don't try to pre determine when large cuts of meat will be done. You will be disappointed. 

Burn a bag of chips and learn your smoker then you will call Todd Johnson for a Amaz-n  pellet tray .

Just my opinions and you will have your own soon.        Jted


----------



## pignit

I took my vent completely off.......


----------



## bdskelly

My vent is closed only when the unit is turned off in order to keep the critters out.  Other than that it is wide open...

Confession... I always turn my chip hopper counter clockwise just to be a rebel.


----------



## dcrosby007

Bearcarver said:


> The manual will also tell you to soak your chips, but anybody who uses an MES for awhile learns that's not a good idea. Same thing with water in the Pan (Bad idea).
> 
> There is a lot more guys on here who know much more than those who wrote the MES manual.
> 
> I keep my top vent open all the way at all times, except when it's Windy (Half-way), or when I'm preheating, or done smoking (closed)----And when not in use (closed).
> 
> For safety things, I listen to the manual, but for "How-to-use", I'll go with experienced Owner/users.
> 
> Bear


I can concur with this & follow these rules to the T!!!  I would recommend everyone doing the same!!!


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## dcrosby007

daRicksta said:


> I have the same smoker you do. I leave the top vent open during smoking, always.


Same hear I concur with this statement too!!!


----------



## daricksta

novegan007 said:


> I've commented on this before, the MES smoker does not give you much of a bark, especially if you are trying to go low and slow.it simply doesn't allow for good air flow, the vent is inadequate and as there is no bottom vents you can't manage humidity. I use mine at nearly commercial volume. Don't get me wrong, I the MES unit has it's uses and i am not disappointed with it, I simply understand it's limitations. I suggest you use pellets and go with a dry drip pan. I've supplied my restaurant with incredibly delicious hot smoked hams for several years. It's simply about knowing the equipments limitations.
> Happy smoking!


But you need to accept the MES for what it is: a relatively inexpensive way to smoke meats in an electric smoker in your backyard (or wherever it's placed). It will never produce a product along the line of pro wood-fired offset rigs or the expensive electrics. But I disagree about not getting much of a bark. I've done it and I believe other smokers--like my friend Bearcarver--have achieved it as well. It takes a bit of work and skill but it's not that difficult unless you keep a beef brisket or pork ribs foiled too long.


----------



## dr k

daRicksta said:


> But you need to accept the MES for what it is: a relatively inexpensive way to smoke meats in an electric smoker in your backyard (or wherever it's placed). It will never produce a product along the line of pro wood-fired offset rigs or the expensive electrics. But I disagree about not getting much of a bark. I've done it and I believe other smokers--like my friend Bearcarver--have achieved it as well. It takes a bit of work and skill but it's not that difficult unless you keep a beef brisket or pork ribs foiled too long.


I've been getting great bark because of not covering food on my last Autumn smokes. Also a full smoker may be more difficult with the humidity from a lot of meat. I've only used two racks of food at once so far. 
-Kurt


----------



## dogwalker

I'm very new to smoking, and I've learned a ton here in this forum.  I figure I'll share my few experiences.  So far, no AMPNS, although I'm pretty certain I'll buy one, for the convenience if nothing else.

I've smoked several times since getting my 20070311 unit just before Thanksgiving.  All have gone great, but I did have two fires this past weekend.  When I examined the chip pan, I found that it has only one screw in it (should be four) and so the right side is drooping down.  I folded some aluminum foil several times to get a height to match the left side and inserted the foil to help hold up the right side.  I also added a screw in the back left side (can't access the right side screw holes).

I also closed the vent this time while adding chips.  I let the chips get going, then later opened the vent.  No fire!  I think the key for me is to reduce air flow while starting the chips, and then open the vent later.

I never add water to the pan, but every single thing I've smoked has come out tender and juicy.  I don't think you need to add moisture.  In fact, as people here have said, it'll work against you.  I liked Foamheart's comment about the vent and loader, with relation to chips or pellets.

I've smoked two hams.  The first one was good, the second one was superb and had some bark.  I've smoked wings several times, chicken several times, brisket once (want to do that more), and a few salmon.  I really want to smoke a pork butt.  I also need to learn to take photos of my smokes!!

This is one of the most fun hobbies I've taken up, and my whole family enjoys it, LOL!  Lots of experience on this forum, and yeah, they may go contrary to the manual at times, but they're artists learning to use and share their knowledge.  I'm one of those guys who wants to learn more and learn "why" I do something or why the smoker does something, in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, I can have a repeatable process!  :-)

Good luck and have fun!


----------



## Bearcarver

Dogwalker said:


> I'm very new to smoking, and I've learned a ton here in this forum.  I figure I'll share my few experiences.  So far, no AMPNS, although I'm pretty certain I'll buy one, for the convenience if nothing else.
> 
> I've smoked several times since getting my 20070311 unit just before Thanksgiving.  All have gone great, but I did have two fires this past weekend.  When I examined the chip pan, I found that it has only one screw in it (should be four) and so the right side is drooping down.  I folded some aluminum foil several times to get a height to match the left side and inserted the foil to help hold up the right side.  I also added a screw in the back left side (can't access the right side screw holes).
> 
> I also closed the vent this time while adding chips.  I let the chips get going, then later opened the vent.  No fire!  I think the key for me is to reduce air flow while starting the chips, and then open the vent later.
> 
> I never add water to the pan, but every single thing I've smoked has come out tender and juicy.  I don't think you need to add moisture.  In fact, as people here have said, it'll work against you.  I liked Foamheart's comment about the vent and loader, with relation to chips or pellets.
> 
> I've smoked two hams.  The first one was good, the second one was superb and had some bark.  I've smoked wings several times, chicken several times, brisket once (want to do that more), and a few salmon.  I really want to smoke a pork butt.  I also need to learn to take photos of my smokes!!
> 
> This is one of the most fun hobbies I've taken up, and my whole family enjoys it, LOL!  Lots of experience on this forum, and yeah, they may go contrary to the manual at times, but they're artists learning to use and share their knowledge.  I'm one of those guys who wants to learn more and learn "why" I do something or why the smoker does something, in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, I can have a repeatable process!  :-)
> 
> Good luck and have fun!


Great Post !!!

You've been doing real good!!

On those screws on the right that you can't access----Can't you remove the whole assembly from the right wall with the screws around that ring (3 if I remember correctly).

Then you can remove the assembly, put in the missing screws, and re-install ???

Been awhile since I looked, but I remember when I swapped out "Chip burning assemblies" in that manner---Only took a couple minutes.

Bear


----------



## dogwalker

Bearcarver said:


> Great Post !!!
> 
> You've been doing real good!!
> 
> On those screws on the right that you can't access----Can't you remove the whole assembly from the right wall with the screws around that ring (3 if I remember correctly).
> 
> Then you can remove the assembly, put in the missing screws, and re-install ???
> 
> Been awhile since I looked, but I remember when I swapped out "Chip burning assemblies" in that manner---Only took a couple minutes.
> 
> Bear


I'll bet you're right!  I'll look this week, thanks.  That would be good.

Man, there's so much with this hobby!  We're trying different rubs, different woods, etc.  And of course, I haven't been keeping a log :-( so now I'll have to redo some of the smokes.

For the ham that turned out great, I followed a recipe I found online (http://howtobbqright.com/smokeaholidayham.html).  The key the second time was remembering to open up the foil for that last hour (doh!).  Man, between the wood, the brown sugar, pineapple juice, and dijon mustard, the ham was a huge hit!


----------



## Bearcarver

Dogwalker said:


> I'll bet you're right!  I'll look this week, thanks.  That would be good.
> 
> Man, there's so much with this hobby!  We're trying different rubs, different woods, etc.  And of course, I haven't been keeping a log :-( so now I'll have to redo some of the smokes.
> 
> For the ham that turned out great, I followed a recipe I found online (http://howtobbqright.com/smokeaholidayham.html).  The key the second time was remembering to open up the foil for that last hour (doh!).  Man, between the wood, the brown sugar, pineapple juice, and dijon mustard, the ham was a huge hit!


Cool---Sounds like you had fun & it tasted Great !!

Here's one that might be easier & it's Great too.

*Double Smoked Ham   *

Bear


----------



## dogwalker

Bearcarver said:


> Cool---Sounds like you had fun & it tasted Great !!
> 
> Here's one that might be easier & it's Great too.
> 
> *Double Smoked Ham   *
> 
> Bear


Thanks!  That glaze looks great!  I see another ham in my near future!


----------



## Bearcarver

Dogwalker said:


> Thanks!  That glaze looks great!  I see another ham in my near future!


I think you'll also like my "Fat in Pan with holes" basting invention too.

Bear


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## daricksta

Dr K said:


> I've been getting great bark because of not covering food on my last Autumn smokes. Also a full smoker may be more difficult with the humidity from a lot of meat. I've only used two racks of food at once so far.
> -Kurt


You further strengthen my resolve to go foil-free this year. The only time I cook on 3 racks is when I get a 3-pak of baby back or St. Louis ribs from Costco. Or when I cold smoke cheese.


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## SmokinAl

I really like the rotisserie idea, but the top vent needs to be open all the way all the time.


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## dogwalker

Bearcarver said:


> I think you'll also like my "Fat in Pan with holes" basting invention too.
> 
> Bear


Hey, I searched and can't find that.  Do you have the link?  I'd love to see it!


----------



## Bearcarver

Dogwalker said:


> Hey, I searched and can't find that.  Do you have the link?  I'd love to see it!


I used it in all 3 of my Double Smoked Ham Step by Steps:

Here it is again on the One Ham Smoke:

*Double Smoked Ham   *

*It's in the Instructions near the top, and the pics show it below.*

*Bear*


----------



## mikeg1218

What ever works for some one is fine with me but I have to note that I had reason to call Masterbuilt customer service several days ago relating to another subject and since I have been following the thread I asked about the vent.

The answer was that it is pretty much what ever gives you the results you want which works for me. HOWEVER, the CS person was quite clear in stating that unless you are cold smoking the vent should never be fully closed. The moisture build up would be too great and lead to corrosion/electrical problems and mold.

MikeG


----------



## daricksta

mikeg1218 said:


> What ever works for some one is fine with me but I have to note that I had reason to call Masterbuilt customer service several days ago relating to another subject and since I have been following the thread I asked about the vent.
> 
> The answer was that it is pretty much what ever gives you the results you want which works for me. HOWEVER, the CS person was quite clear in stating that unless you are cold smoking the vent should never be fully closed. The moisture build up would be too great and lead to corrosion/electrical problems and mold.
> 
> MikeG


My experience with cold smoking in my MES 30 Gen 1 has been that lack of airflow is a big problem for keeping the wood pellets (I use the AMNPS with wood pellets for both hot and cold smoking) lit. I keep the top vent wide open for all smoking. I tried fully closing the top vent and even trying it half-closed for cold smokes with the thought of keeping the smoke inside the MES. The pellets went out. I've developed a couple of workarounds for cold smoking to make sure the pellets stay lit. However, I get more than enough smoke with the top vent fully open when cold smoking cheeses and salmon.


----------



## dogwalker

Bearcarver said:


> I used it in all 3 of my Double Smoked Ham Step by Steps:
> 
> Here it is again on the One Ham Smoke:
> 
> *Double Smoked Ham   *
> 
> *It's in the Instructions near the top, and the pics show it below.*
> 
> *Bear*


Great, thanks!


----------



## sgtschultz

mythmaster said:


> I have a 30" MES and will differ from the general consensus here when I say that I leave my vent closed for the whole time.  I'm not concerned about the smoke becoming stale because it still exits the vent at a rapid rate, and the 30" MES is so small that I don't see any reason for concern about that.  Also, keeping the vent closed is recommended in the MES manual, and it has always worked best for me.  I have tried it both ways, and the temperature inside the 30" MES stays more consistent when the vent has been closed (and there is 1/2 pan of water in the water tray).  I don't even need to use a smoker temp thermometer anymore because I know that it will always be within 2 degrees of accuracy.
> 
> For ribs, you need 5 hrs for baby backs and 6 hours for spares at 225 regardless of whether you foil them or not.  Every time you open the door, though, you lose heat and increase the cooking time.
> 
> Here's the thread about some baby backs I just did with my 30" MES.  I left the vent closed the whole time: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/95562/baby-backs-with-brown-sugar


Agree 100% with the vent closed on the MES.  Even closed, it's not really closed.  Steam (water pan) and smoke still escape.  I've had the best results with mine closed for the initial smoke period before foiling ribs or a shoulder.  I've also learned that after foiling I get great bark results with opening up the vent about halfway for the last runup to finish temperature.


----------



## daricksta

I don't believe in keeping the top vent closed. The MES is fairly airtight so I don't see how smoke can be generated for very long with such little airflow. The AMNPS won't stay lit and I know this from personal experience. An argument can be made that with the vent closed it's OK if smoke isn't constantly generated because what is generated will remain inside the smoker. But that can also lead to oversmoked food. I always smoke with the top vent wide open and will continue to do so.


----------



## rytsydup

I agree with what others had said about having your vent open to promote proper combustion of the wood.

When I was experimenting with the vent closed, I was finding there was a lot of moisture buildup. The temperature was easy to control but food came out more steamed than smoked. With the vent all the way open, i would get better results with less of a steaming effect, but I noticed the cabinet temp was harder to control and I had a 10 degree meat temperature variance between the top and bottom of the cabinet. So I purchased the *iDevices, 4 probe thermometer**  *  , so i can monitor the temps between the lower and upper shelves and could slowly begin closing the vent until the hunks of meat were within a degree of each other. I used two of the probes for ambient so I could verify the heat was being evenly distributed in the enclosure. After I'm done adjusting the vent, I usually find its about half closed.

One comment about the billowing smoke some people have complained about. Wood burns blue, not grey. You should always see blue smoke coming out of your smoker if its got wood in it. You might see too much blue smoke if your woods burning too fast. If that's the case, I suggest you employ techniques that allow you to control how much direct heat your wood is getting. I've done a few of the mods I've found on this forum and had great success. If you find you have a lot of grey smoke coming out, its not smoke, its steam. Water boils at 212 F so if your intent is to steam cook your food, you'll want to drop your temp to less than 212 F. This wasn't immediately obvious to me when I first stated smoking. I'd get the perfect blue wisp of smoking going and then all of a sudden, billowing white smoke! Drop the temp below 212 and its gone. I also experimented with how close the wood was to the heat source. Salmon smokes at about 165 F. Because this took very little flame to get the cabinet to that temperature, I had to get the wood closer to the flame to get it burning and used smaller chucks, but had to raise it when cooking above 200 F.

Sorry if I stated the obvious. I wanted to put that out there in case someone else was questioning why they were getting so much billowing grey smoke.


----------



## bulldog2

When smoking pork shoulder, depending on how large it is, I have found that smoking it for 6 to 10 hours makes it fall off the bone soft. THis is a process you cannot rush.

And thanks for the advise on the the vent position of a Masterbuilt smoker. I was noticing creosote particles on the fish i smoke. My vent position was half open. Next time it will be full open. Masterbuilt instructions lacks some information.


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## kjams718

I am intrigued by this whole thread as I have just purchased a master built electric smoker , to replace the propane one that was blown away in a tornado like storm. I am feeling good about this purchase for the fact I can learn temps a lot better with electric than propane cause it was so dang touchy to get a stable temp with gas. Looking forward to smoking and I appreciate ALL the feedback I can learn from!!


----------



## jted

Bulldog2 said:


> When smoking pork shoulder, depending on how large it is, I have found that smoking it for 6 to 10 hours makes it fall off the bone soft. THis is a process you cannot rush.
> 
> And thanks for the advise on the the vent position of a Masterbuilt smoker. I was noticing creosote particles on the fish i smoke. My vent position was half open. Next time it will be full open. Masterbuilt instructions lacks some information.


Bulldog, you are just learning that the Masterbuilt manual was written by someone who seldom used the smoker .  If you have any question just post it and I assure you it will be answered. You will get some opinions and facts. Those will be answered by friendly knowledgeable people who want to help.    Jted


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## jted

kjams718 said:


> I am intrigued by this whole thread as I have just purchased a master built electric smoker , to replace the propane one that was blown away in a tornado like storm. I am feeling good about this purchase for the fact I can learn temps a lot better with electric than propane cause it was so dang touchy to get a stable temp with gas. Looking forward to smoking and I appreciate ALL the feedback I can learn from!!


Kjams, I see by the number of posts you are probably just getting started with the electric smoker. After reading this read the post on water pans and there use in electric smokers. It will help you a lot  in the long run..   Jted


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## fjmcm

my maual says closed other than fish and jerky wide open manual number model 20070215 both paper copy annd online download at masterbuilt .com it is under the heading lets get started, the reason it says is to retain moisture , if you don't yourfood may be dry this model has water pan


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## bdskelly

fjmcm said:


> my maual says closed other than fish and jerky wide open manual number model 20070215 both paper copy annd online download at masterbuilt .com it is under the heading lets get started, the reason it says is to retain moisture , if you don't yourfood may be dry this model has water pan


Howdy FJ. 

As you can see, this discussion has gone on now for 21 pages.  Crazy that one subject has done that. But it gives a clear view of the confusion cooking with the MES and the instruction MES put in the box!

Vent open or closed your MES is designed to keep a constant temp. It is electric and thermostatically  controlled.  Just like your oven. Unless you live in a harshly cold or hot environment your units should keep a "relatively" constant temperature. 

Second  If you cook your meats to a specific internal temperature ( rather than the  cook times MES gives you in the manual you are reading) you won't get dry meat!.  Example, I never even put water in the pan.  ...Because I use the IT of the meat that I smoke to know when it it done. Many of us here use the Maverick thermometer. Your MES will make great food.


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## Bearcarver

fjmcm said:


> my maual says closed other than fish and jerky wide open manual number model 20070215 both paper copy annd online download at masterbuilt .com it is under the heading lets get started, the reason it says is to retain moisture , if you don't yourfood may be dry this model has water pan


I probably commented on this earlier, but I don't feel like looking it up, so I'll just give you my stock MES top vent answer:

For 7 years now I've been closing my top vent to preheat it. Then I open it up all the way, no matter what I'm smoking, unless it's windy out. If it's windy, I close the Top vent half way to keep the wind from sucking the heat out of the smoker. Then I close the top vent to store it until the next smoke, to keep bugs out.

I also have not put water in my water pan for over 6 years, because there is always enough humidity in my MES. Most of the time there's enough humidity in my MES to cover me window with vapor, and the water runs down the door throughout the whole smoke.  Now why would I want to add more water when water is running down my door glass.

There are many people on this forum who know a lot more about how to use an MES than the guys who wrote the manuals.

Here are a bunch of "How-Tos":

 Just click on *"Bear's Step by Steps"*.

Bear


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## bdskelly

Bearcarver said:


> I probably commented on this earlier, but I don't feel like looking it up, so I'll just give you my stock MES top vent answer:
> 
> For 7 years now I've been closing my top vent to preheat it. Then I open it up all the way, no matter what I'm smoking, unless it's windy out. If it's windy, I close the Top vent half way to keep the wind from sucking the heat out of the smoker. Then I close the top vent to store it until the next smoke, to keep bugs out.
> 
> I also have not put water in my water pan for over 6 years, because there is always enough humidity in my MES. Most of the time there's enough humidity in my MES to cover me window with vapor, and the water runs down the door throughout the whole smoke.  Now why would I want to add more water when water is running down my door glass.
> 
> There are many people on this forum who know a lot more about how to use an MES than the guys who wrote the manuals.
> 
> Here are a bunch of "How-Tos":
> 
> Just click on *"Bear's Step by Steps"*.
> 
> Bear


Yup  Thats the way we do it!  I forgot the important part on closing the vent when not in use to keep the critters out!  Point to you Bear. 

B


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## Bearcarver

BDSkelly said:


> Yup  Thats the way we do it!  I forgot the important part on closing the vent when not in use to keep the critters out!  Point to you Bear.
> 
> B


Thanks B !!

You obviously never had Stink bugs as bad as we had a few years ago. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






And Thanks for the Points.

Bear


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## cory q

I'm a proud new owner of a 40 inch masterbuilt 1200 watt digital electric smoker with the glass window,  built in meat thermometer and side insert chip hopper   and am using it for my third time right now.  I really like the results so far.  I am a total newbie to smoking so I am open to everybody's opinion and of course just like a lot of other things cooking ones food has  A lot to do with preference.  Obviously I have been wondering myself as a newbie how much smoke should I have going through this thing  and how and in what theory do I operate the vent which led me to this forum. I kept my assembly care and use manual and on the third page it does in fact have the page myth master posted.  What I have noticed is that even with the vent fully closed (which is not fully closed) the smoke  escapes and I can see flow of smoke through the glass  at a decent rate . With the vents wide open I just seem to burn right through the chips  end it becomes very clear inside the smoker however I've already read in some other forums that just because you don't have a lot of smoke coming out does it mean that the meat is not absorbing the flavor . 













image.jpg



__ cory q
__ Dec 21, 2016


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## Bearcarver

Cory Q said:


> I'm a proud new owner of a 40 inch masterbuilt 1200 watt digital electric smoker with the glass window, built in meat thermometer and side insert chip hopper and am using it for my third time right now. I really like the results so far. I am a total newbie to smoking so I am open to everybody's opinion and of course just like a lot of other things cooking ones food has A lot to do with preference. Obviously I have been wondering myself as a newbie how much smoke should I have going through this thing and how and in what theory do I operate the vent which led me to this forum. I kept my assembly care and use manual and on the third page it does in fact have the page myth master posted. What I have noticed is that even with the vent fully closed (which is not fully closed) the smoke escapes and I can see flow of smoke through the glass at a decent rate . With the vents wide open I just seem to burn right through the chips end it becomes very clear inside the smoker however I've already read in some other forums that just because you don't have a lot of smoke coming out does it mean that the meat is not absorbing the flavor .


The older models' Top Vents used to close completely, but IMHO, closing them more than Half way is too much.

Like I said above, I keep mine open 100% unless it's Windy. When Windy I keep it open Half way. Never less, except Preheating, holding, & storing.

Don't believe everything you read in the owners manual. They weren't written by people who use the MES units as long as many of the guys on this forum.

Everybody has their own opinion of how much smoke. My opinion is as long as you can smell it, that's good, but I like any amount up to the point that when I look through the glass in my door, I can't see the food & racks inside. If I can't see those things, it's too heavy a Smoke.

You might find some Help at this Link:

Just click on *"Bear's Step by Steps"*.

Bear


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## starfighter51

Pretty funny the (Dave) part, most people don't know that.


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## meatstick

My gasser only has the vent on top. I want to add a vent and/or just drill a few holes to keep my A-maze lite and allow good air flow. My question is what makes the most sense or works the best. I was thinking about drilling a few holes on the sides towards the bottom. Would this be good or should I do it half way up on the side or towards the top on the side?


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## Bearcarver

meatstick said:


> My gasser only has the vent on top. I want to add a vent and/or just drill a few holes to keep my A-maze lite and allow good air flow. My question is what makes the most sense or works the best. I was thinking about drilling a few holes on the sides towards the bottom. Would this be good or should I do it half way up on the side or towards the top on the side?


Best would be near where you put your Amazing Smoker, but a little lower.

Bear


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## smoker21

meatstick said:


> My gasser only has the vent on top. I want to add a vent and/or just drill a few holes to keep my A-maze lite and allow good air flow. My question is what makes the most sense or works the best. I was thinking about drilling a few holes on the sides towards the bottom. Would this be good or should I do it half way up on the side or towards the top on the side?



Hi meatstick,

I just got  Masterbuilt  XL44", 2 burner, 2 door.
It has 5 shelves, and the lowest shelf is about 8" above a vent(left or right) I plan to put my Amazing 5x8 right on the shelf for cold smokes. Not sure about hot smokes yet. Was planning to play today, but we are getting freezing rain and rain. [emoji]9785[/emoji]️

JD


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## smoker21

Cory Q said:


> I'm a proud new owner of a 40 inch masterbuilt 1200 watt digital electric smoker with the glass window,  built in meat thermometer and side insert chip hopper   and am using it for my third time right now.  I really like the results so far.  I am a total newbie to smoking so I am open to everybody's opinion and of course just like a lot of other things cooking ones food has  A lot to do with preference.  Obviously I have been wondering myself as a newbie how much smoke should I have going through this thing  and how and in what theory do I operate the vent which led me to this forum.
> 
> Congrats on your new smoker. I hope you have as much fun with yours as I do with mine. [emoji]128522[/emoji]


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## dogwalker

I've had my MES 40 for one year now, and it's been wonderful.  I've finally figured out what works for me regarding the vent and the external Masterbuilt "cold" smoker unit.  As Bear and others have said, I close my vent for preheating and storage, and then I leave it at half-open when smoking.  I tweak it a little, sometimes opening or closing it a little, depending on how the temperatures are going.  But I sure love the smoker.

I'd say that my only problem is when I'm smoking a lot of meat that's cold, the smoker can't seem to recover temperature-wise.  The MES might read 275, for example, but the real temperature is 225.  That's almost always fine with me.  And I now have a Weber grill and a Slow N Sear for those times I want a higher temperature (chicken wings!).


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## smoker21

I'd say that my only problem is when I'm smoking a lot of meat that's cold, the smoker can't seem to recover temperature-wise.  

Hey Dogwalker, Yeah, that is a problem in the cooler weather.  I let my beef come up to about room temperature and my bigger pork cuts a few degrees cooler.  With poultry, my fridge is @38' and I go for smaller batches. You don't want poultry to spend too much time in that funky zone.

JD


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## Bearcarver

Dogwalker said:


> I've had my MES 40 for one year now, and it's been wonderful.  I've finally figured out what works for me regarding the vent and the external Masterbuilt "cold" smoker unit.  As Bear and others have said, I close my vent for preheating and storage, and then I leave it at half-open when smoking.  I tweak it a little, sometimes opening or closing it a little, depending on how the temperatures are going.  But I sure love the smoker.
> 
> I'd say that my only problem is when I'm smoking a lot of meat that's cold, the smoker can't seem to recover temperature-wise.  *The MES might read 275, for example, but the real temperature is 225.*  That's almost always fine with me.  And I now have a Weber grill and a Slow N Sear for those times I want a higher temperature (chicken wings!).


Need more info on that one.

If it's set at 275°, and it's really 225° on some other accurate Therm in the smoker:

#1   If the Heating element is still on, it's having trouble recovering.

#2   If the Heating element is off, your MES control is much to far off. (I would call them) You paid for a Smoker that goes from 100° to 275°.

Bear


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## mawil1013

mythmaster said:


> SNIP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SNIP
> 
> Hummm, soooo, using and unmodified masterbuilt Close The Vent!!  Apparently they are trying to maximize the smoke.  I recently obtained a 30" and still learning.


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## rex1

If I close the vent on my 40 inch smoker all the way it will turn the meat black and a heartbeat. I do have the Retro flower box which is a larger box and the one that came with it


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## smoker21

I always leave the vent open almost all the way.

All the best.

JD


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## Bearcarver

The problem there is closing the top vent while smoking sounds good on paper, but those who have been using their MES units for a long time know better. I'm sure Whoever wrote that "Helping Hint" hasn't used one as much as hundreds of guys on this Forum have.

I keep my top vent open all the way at all times, unless it's windy. 

If it's windy I close it half-way to keep the wind from sucking the heat out the top vent, along with using other ways of blocking the wind.

I only close the top vent as far as it goes when Preheating, holding temp after food is done, and when storing (to keep bugs out).

Bear


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## dogwalker

Bearcarver said:


> Need more info on that one.
> 
> If it's set at 275°, and it's really 225° on some other accurate Therm in the smoker:
> 
> #1   If the Heating element is still on, it's having trouble recovering.
> 
> #2   If the Heating element is off, your MES control is much to far off. (I would call them) You paid for a Smoker that goes from 100° to 275°.
> 
> Bear


Hey, Bear!  Hmmm, I'll have to try more meat again sometime.  Lately I've cooked only small amounts of meat, and the big discrepancies were only when I had something like at least two shoulders in it.  And I have to admit, I took the shoulders out of the fridge when I turned on the smoker, and put them in the smoker probably 20 minutes later.  Maybe I should wait 30 minutes to let them come up a little in temperature and also let the MES "warm up."

I've also noticed that the discrepancy depends on the vent position.  I recently cooked some thick steaks in the smoker, and I use the Thermoworks Smoke to monitor temperatures.  I closed the vent while preheating, to help the preheating go faster.  Then I opened the door and put the steaks in and opened the vent all the way.  At that point, the Smoke measured the air temperature a lot lower than the MES gauge.  They did close in, but the MES read higher, and therefore, it cut off before the Smoke reached the 225 I was aiming for.  So, I just closed the vent again and the temps gradually settled within a few degrees.

It varies with the amount of meat, but I've found that I need to close the top vent a little to get temperatures to agree.  Not completely, just somewhere between 1/3 to 2/3 open, usually around 1/2.


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## hillbilly jim

Masterbuilt 44 inch propane.













img_4967-e1469126420656.jpg



__ hillbilly jim
__ Mar 14, 2017


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## dr k

Dogwalker said:


> Hey, Bear!  Hmmm, I'll have to try more meat again sometime.  Lately I've cooked only small amounts of meat, and the big discrepancies were only when I had something like at least two shoulders in it.  And I have to admit, I took the shoulders out of the fridge when I turned on the smoker, and put them in the smoker probably 20 minutes later.  Maybe I should wait 30 minutes to let them come up a little in temperature and also let the MES "warm up."
> 
> I've also noticed that the discrepancy depends on the vent position.  I recently cooked some thick steaks in the smoker, and I use the Thermoworks Smoke to monitor temperatures.  I closed the vent while preheating, to help the preheating go faster.  Then I opened the door and put the steaks in and opened the vent all the way.  At that point, the Smoke measured the air temperature a lot lower than the MES gauge.  They did close in, but the MES read higher, and therefore, it cut off before the Smoke reached the 225 I was aiming for.  So, I just closed the vent again and the temps gradually settled within a few degrees.
> 
> It varies with the amount of meat, but I've found that I need to close the top vent a little to get temperatures to agree.  Not completely, just somewhere between 1/3 to 2/3 open, usually around 1/2.


Maybe it's because the Mes stock toggle looking sensor sticks out of the back wall and stays warmer than the Smoke air therm suspended in open air so the Smoke therm may cool faster. I'd go by the Smoke Therm you can calibrate in boiling water and place it close to your food and set the Mes according to the Smoke therm. 
-Kurt


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## Bearcarver

Dr K said:


> Maybe it's because the Mes stock toggle looking sensor sticks out of the back wall and stays warmer than the Smoke air therm suspended in open air so the Smoke therm may cool faster. I'd go by the Smoke Therm you can calibrate in boiling water and place it close to your food and set the Mes according to the Smoke therm.
> -Kurt










Always go by the Therm that is easy to check in boiling water, and adjust your MES setting to make the accurate therm (near the meat) get to what you want.

I keep my Vent open all the way, unless I'm Preheating (closed), or if it's Windy (Half open).

Also---Particularly in the Winter, if you have a Window in your door, be sure if it's facing South, that the Sun doesn't hit the MES heat sensor on the back wall of your Smoker. That will send a wrong signal to your Smoker & cause the element to shut off at the wrong Temp

Bear.


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## dogwalker

Bearcarver said:


> Always go by the Therm that is easy to check in boiling water, and adjust your MES setting to make the accurate therm (near the meat) get to what you want.
> 
> I keep my Vent open all the way, unless I'm Preheating (closed), or if it's Windy (Half open).
> 
> Also---Particularly in the Winter, if you have a Window in your door, be sure if it's facing South, that the Sun doesn't hit the MES heat sensor on the back wall of your Smoker. That will send a wrong signal to your Smoker & cause the element to shut off at the wrong Temp
> 
> Bear.


Thanks, both of you!


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## dogwalker

Dr K said:


> Maybe it's because the Mes stock toggle looking sensor sticks out of the back wall and stays warmer than the Smoke air therm suspended in open air so the Smoke therm may cool faster. I'd go by the Smoke Therm you can calibrate in boiling water and place it close to your food and set the Mes according to the Smoke therm.
> -Kurt


That makes sense, thanks!


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## chubbyrider52

Sooooo, vent open or closed lol


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## Bearcarver

chubbyrider52 said:


> Sooooo, vent open or closed lol



On my MES units:
I keep my top vent fully opened all the time, except when it's windy (about halfway), or when preheating, finished smoking or storing (fully closed).

Bear


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## chubbyrider52

I have a master built 40” first time smoking a pork butt in it. Internal  Temp is at 164 when should I wrap it


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## Bearcarver

chubbyrider52 said:


> I have a master built 40” first time smoking a pork butt in it. Temp is at 164 when should I wrap it



You're right about where I Pan & foil mine (165°).

Here's my whole Step by Step:
*Pulled Boston Pork Butt *


Bear


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## runway1

chubbyrider52 said:


> Sooooo, vent open or closed lol


opened


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