# New guy, first smoker, any recommendations?



## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Hi everyone - so glad I found this forum.  I've decided to try out smoking this summer.  I've never smoked food before but I love the taste and want to get into it.

I'd like to primarily smoke Bluefish, ribs, salmon & roasts/chunks (I catch fresh Bluefish myself).  Convenience would be nice (set it and walk etc).  From my preliminary research, it looks like electric is the way to go (cheaper than propane, temperature control, convenience etc).

Can you guys throw out some makes/models as suggestions?  The Masterbuilt 20078715 looks like the latest Masterbuilt model (on Amazon for $200).  I can be patient and look for deals (hopefully closer to $100-$150).   Is this a good choice for a new guy?

I know nothing about smokers so would be curious to hear what some of the key features are to lookout for (and what to avoid)?

My considerations:

-initial cost

-operating cost (energy & chips)

-convenience (temperature control, timer?, minimal cleaning)

-the smoker needs to work out the box (I'm not big into customization, maybe down the road, but not for a new guy)

-flavor (it's assumed that electrics are good enough for a new guy)

Thanks everyone! 













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__ mummel
__ Apr 8, 2015


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## chef willie (Apr 8, 2015)

That's a tough budget....I might suggest looking on Craigs List or something similar in your 'hood for something gently used. I have NO experience first hand with the MES but am leery of recommending a Generation 2 MES to any new smoker. Generation 1 would be fine as far as I understand. Use the 'search bar' typing in 'MES reviews' and come to your own conclusion. My second smoker was a gasser and not bad to use...from Lowes at around $135. I gained some knowledge and confidence and about 2 years later invested up to an electric. If there is a Lowes or Home Depot near you there are usually floor models out you can go fondle and tire kick.....HTH, Willie


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Thanks Willie.  Budget aside for now, what electric would you recommend for a first timer?  It's kind of hard to figure out all the MES models.  Are there big differences between the Gen 1s & 2s?  Where can I look for a gen 1?


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

I found this thread discussing the latest Bluetooth 2nd gen one.  Reviews seem positive.  Is the Masterbuilt 20078715 (the pic above) the same model less the Bluetooth/window?

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/172001/new-mes-bluetooth-digital-smoker


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## chef willie (Apr 8, 2015)

Sorry....again I have no knowledge on the BlueTooth MES......in my opinion it's just another thing to go sideways (?). I'm retired and know squat about blueteeth. I do have WiFi in the house but have no idea what the hell it exactly is. Here is a good link from Todd of AMNZ fame that summed it up pretty good at the time. Most smokers on here that have the Gen 1 are very happy with it....look for one of those.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/133955/2012-mes-40-vs-old-model-mes-40 

I am in the camp of 'buy once, cry once'.....I've bought stuff on the cheap to save a few bucks and realized a few miles down the road I should have gotten the one I wanted and just bit the bullet. I still suggest going to look at one....have you considered a pellet smoker? Rec Tec has a great rep and they offer payment plans. Check out the options. I understand the agonizing over these things....I do it all the time


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## ajsmokes (Apr 8, 2015)

I have a MES 30 and I'm fairly new I've been smoking for a little over a year. Aside from learning the temp control on my specific unit I love it. Oh and the set and forget is obsolete considering you have to load chips every 30 - 45 minutes. That is unless you make the necessary modifications. 
Here's the smoker I have..












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__ ajsmokes
__ Apr 8, 2015





This smoker is about 6 months old and no where that clean anymore


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

I just spoke to customer service.  The one in the pic is the newest model and apparently has been refined.  New drip tray, and the heating element is now replaceable (as well as the thermostat).  She said the temperature issues have been resolved (but who knows).  The chimney has been moved to the top etc.  All in all, with what research I've done, I'm leaning towards this model for $200.

Does anyone know if you can put the A-Maze-n Pellet Smoker 5x8 in these smokers, say on the bottom tray?  Does it interfere with the heating process?  Does it create ash in the smoker?  Does it fit?  Using one of these gizmos would help with the "set and go" approach.

As for pellet smokers - I've looked at them.  I dont have the patio space or winter storage.  It's basically a big grill with an additional module correct?  Yeah I dont have the space.  I'll probably want to put this smoker in my garage over the brutal northeast winters we have.


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## chef willie (Apr 8, 2015)

Ajsmokes said:


> I have a MES 30 and I'm fairly new I've been smoking for a little over a year. Aside from learning the temp control on my specific unit I love it. Oh and the set and forget is obsolete considering you have to load chips every 30 - 45 minutes. That is unless you make the necessary modifications.
> Here's the smoker I have..
> 
> 
> ...


One of these from Todd should really make your life easier in the loading chips department....many MES owners swear by them

http://www.amazenproducts.com/


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Does anyone know if you can put the A-Maze-n Pellet Smoker 5x8 in these smokers, say on the bottom tray?  Does it interfere with the heating process?  Does it create ash in the smoker?  Does it fit?  Using one of these gizmos would help with the "set and go" approach.


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> I just spoke to customer service.  The one in the pic is the newest model and apparently has been refined.  New drip tray, and the heating element is now replaceable (as well as the thermostat).  She said the temperature issues have been resolved (but who knows).  The chimney has been moved to the top etc.  All in all, with what research I've done, I'm leaning towards this model for $200.
> 
> Does anyone know if you can put the A-Maze-n Pellet Smoker 5x8 in these smokers, say on the bottom tray?  Does it interfere with the heating process?  Does it create ash in the smoker?  Does it fit?  Using one of these gizmos would help with the "set and go" approach.
> 
> As for pellet smokers - I've looked at them.  I dont have the patio space or winter storage.  It's basically a big grill with an additional module correct?  Yeah I dont have the space.  I'll probably want to put this smoker in my garage over the brutal northeast winters we have.


Yes you can use the pellet smoker from todd in there. I have seen guys on here that pipe the chimney out through a window in the garage and use it all winter too. Pretty easy to do. For your budget and other considerations this sounds like the best option to me. Make sure you do get a dual probe thermometer unit like the Maverick ones of I grill or whatever. I know, the smoker already has those. Well, they are known to be bad so you really want another set to make sure. Happy smoking. timber.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Great thanks.  Does anyone have a photo of the A-Maze-n Pellet Smoker 5x8 in one of these newer 30" models?  I would be really interested to see the fit.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Also, do you guys store them outside in brutal winter conditions (say with a cover), or is it better to bring them indoors?


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Is there anyway to check the internal temp for calibration without buying another gizmo (i.e. water tray boiling point, 212F etc)?


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Is there anyway to check the internal temp for calibration without buying another gizmo (i.e. water tray boiling point, 212F etc)?


You can check the factory therms for accuracy with boiling water yes. Lots of people use their smokers year around on a covered porch, etc.... But like I said you can pipe it out the garage door or a window too. If you are totally against smoking in the winter you should probably bring it in. I have an EZ up shelter that stays up year around and they last a couple of years if you tie them down really good and remember to knock the snow off every day. My current one is going on 3 years.


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

Buying another gizmo as you call it like the Maverick et-732 or 733 is a good idea. Especially if you have two or three different things in there at one time. Plus, those factory units are trash.


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## ajsmokes (Apr 8, 2015)

I use mine through the winter and when I'm not using it it's covered. For the temp I bought a Mav 733 and use it every time now. I have a video showing how far off the factory therm is but I don't know how to post it on here.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

I assume the door seals closed even if that metal cable is coming out of it?  Looking at the Maverick 733, how do you secure the probe in the meat without it falling out etc?


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## ajsmokes (Apr 8, 2015)

The probe won't fall out of the meat and I run it through exhaust. That way there is no wear and tear on the door seal.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Ajsmokes said:


> The probe won't fall out of the meat and I run it through exhaust. That way there is no wear and tear on the door seal.


Thats smart.  Can you rest the transmitter on top of the smoker or does the top get really hot?


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> I assume the door seals closed even if that metal cable is coming out of it?  Looking at the Maverick 733, how do you secure the probe in the meat without it falling out etc?


stick it in the meat and it stays. Yes the door closes on the wires no problem. The chamber probe has a clip that clips to the grate. I have never had one of my probes mysteriously fall out of the meat in a couple of decades of smoking.


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## ajsmokes (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Thats smart.  Can you rest the transmitter on top of the smoker or does the top get really hot?


I hang mine off the handle on the back. Also it's well insulated shouldn't be hot anywhere on the outside of the unit


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

I'm excited.  Thanks for all the help and info guys.  Now to hunt for a deal.....  What would be the easiest food to start with for a new guy?  Fish, brisket etc?


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## ajsmokes (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> I'm excited.  Thanks for all the help and info guys.  Now to hunt for a deal.....  What would be the easiest food to start with for a new guy?  Fish, brisket etc?


my personal experience which isn't much would be a pork butt. A lot of others with a lot more experience would most likely say the same.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Oh and as for the AMPS, how many hours of burn does one get end to end? 

And if you are manually using the Masterbuilt factory wood chip feeder, how often do you need to add chips (I saw a vid saying every 30min).  How do you know how many to add or whats going on inside without opening the door?


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> I'm excited.  Thanks for all the help and info guys.  Now to hunt for a deal.....  What would be the easiest food to start with for a new guy?  Fish, brisket etc?


Brisket is the trickiest thing you could try for your first smoke. Fish might be second. I would go with Chicken or Pork shoulder. Boston Butt is very forgiving and takes quite a while to do so you can really get the hang of using your new smoker. Plus it is so good. Chicken is easy and only takes a few hours and is fairly cheap to buy so if you screw your first one up it's no big deal. I always recommend taking Jeff's 5 day E-course for new smokers. It is free and will help you get started off on the right foot. Bearcarver has step by step tutorials on everything you might want to try smoking and he uses nearly the same electric that you are looking at so that is an added bonus as well. Most importantly, read, read, and read some more. This website is chock full of usefull information for you to soak up. The search bar at the top of the page is really excellent and the best one I have seen on any cooking website period. Just type in what you want to know and you can read for days. Happy smoking. timber


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## ajsmokes (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Oh and as for the AMPS, how many hours of burn does one get end to end?
> 
> And if you are manually using the Masterbuilt factory wood chip feeder, how often do you need to add chips (I saw a vid saying every 30min).  How do you know how many to add or whats going on inside without opening the door?


I don't use the AMNPS.. the feeder holds so much. Fill the feeder load the smoker and walk away I feed it every 45 mimutes..


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Thanks Timber.  As for the feeder, how much do you add every 45min?  How do you know whether to add more or less?  Do you use the smoke coming out the chimney as a guide?  How long after you add chips on a fresh start do you start to see smoke?


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Sorry for all the questions.  Anyone one I had pop up is, do these smokers get really hot on the outside?  I assume the chimney metal must be on fire, but what about the rest of the box?

The reason I ask is because we have small kids running around.  I was just curious as the smoker will be left unattended.  Thanks.


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Thanks Timber.  As for the feeder, how much do you add every 45min?  How do you know whether to add more or less?  Do you use the smoke coming out the chimney as a guide?  How long after you add chips on a fresh start do you start to see smoke?


The factory chip deal is pretty crappy. If you want to smoke a 10 pound Butt you don't want to get up and load the thing and open the door every 45 minutes and lose all your heat and smoke. I suggest one of those pellet tubes or trays. Todd Johnson  is a member here and he owns Amazen products. He is very active on this website and if you PM him he can answer all your questions. You will be looking for a thin blue smoke that is barely discernible coming from the exhaust. This is what we refer to as TBS. It is the best smoke for long smokes where you want to impart a very good flavor to your meat. Some shorter smokes like salmon of something might benefit from heavier smoke for a shorter time and in that case you might like to use the factory chip tray. His pellet smoker will go producing perfect smoke for like 11 hours at a time. Pretty cheap too. Masterbuilt has their version as well but once again you have to attend it constantly. I do 24 hour smokes all the time and it is nice to be able to get a few hours of sleep when you need to. If you have the maverick and todd's equipment you are all set. Your smoker can be monitored from the bed or couch.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

timberjet said:


> The factory chip deal is pretty crappy. If you want to smoke a 10 pound Butt you don't want to get up and load the thing and open the door every 45 minutes and lose all your heat and smoke. I suggest one of those pellet tubes or trays. Todd Johnson  is a member here and he owns Amazen products. He is very active on this website and if you PM him he can answer all your questions. You will be looking for a thin blue smoke that is barely discernible coming from the exhaust. This is what we refer to as TBS. It is the best smoke for long smokes where you want to impart a very good flavor to your meat. Some shorter smokes like salmon of something might benefit from heavier smoke for a shorter time and in that case you might like to use the factory chip tray. His pellet smoker will go producing perfect smoke for like 11 hours at a time. Pretty cheap too. Masterbuilt has their version as well but once again you have to attend it constantly. I do 24 hour smokes all the time and it is nice to be able to get a few hours of sleep when you need to. If you have the maverick and todd's equipment you are all set. Your smoker can be monitored from the bed or couch.


That's awesome.  How long does the 5X8 tray burn before it needs a refill?


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Sorry for all the questions.  Anyone one I had pop up is, do these smokers get really hot on the outside?  I assume the chimney metal must be on fire, but what about the rest of the box?
> 
> The reason I ask is because we have small kids running around.  I was just curious as the smoker will be left unattended.  Thanks.


No, the unit is very well insulated. Most guys and gals put it up on a rolling cart to keep the chimney out of reach of kids. Even it doesn't get real hot. You must realize you are smoking at low temps. not blazing up a big fire or something. If something is on fire you have problems.


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> That's awesome.  How long does the 5X8 tray burn before it needs a refill?


11 hours


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Yeah I read bluefish is at 200F and then at 150F.  I'm keen to try the Boston butt first though.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

timberjet said:


> 11 hours


That's plenty, thanks.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

It looks like the AMPS does use more fuel than the standard chips though.  Maybe not as efficient?  Are pellets cheaper? 

Any recommendations for type/flavor of chips / pellets?  Can I use the same pellets for fish as for Boston butt, or do I need a different flavor depending on what I'm making?


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

BTW - I found this probe.  If I dont need the wireless capability, can I just use something like this?  Would work for meat only though, not grate temp.  $13 on Amazon.


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## bmaddox (Apr 8, 2015)

Pellets are actually very efficient as they burn completley while wood chips will not always burn completely. The flavor is up to you. @TJohnson  has a "Pitmaster Blend" that is a great all around pellet to start with (I believe he sends you some of it when you buy an AMNPS).


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## bmaddox (Apr 8, 2015)

I have a probe thermometer by Thermoworks that is not wireless. It works great and I use it when I want to track multiple pieces as one of my two Maverick probes is always tracking the smoker temp.


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## frog1369 (Apr 8, 2015)

Chef Willie said:


> I am in the camp of 'buy once, cry once'.....I've bought stuff on the cheap to save a few bucks and realized a few miles down the road I should have gotten the one I wanted and just bit the bullet. I still suggest going to look at one....have you considered a pellet smoker? Rec Tec has a great rep and they offer payment plans. Check out the options. I understand the agonizing over these things....I do it all the time


Mummel,

I'm with Chef Willie on this one as I have learned my lesson on this same thought several times in my lifetime.  Too many people try their hand at something with the wrong equipment for them and then give it up because they couldn't make it work.  All units will have a learning curve, require some kind of effort and  benefit from whatever cooing experience you have.  OF course, things get better with practice.  Do your research and find what will be right for you.  This is a good place for information, there is a ton of info on the web in other forums as well.  

Chef Willie mentioned pellet grills, I have one to complement my gasser grill, charcoal grill and vertical propane smoker.  Rec-Tec makes a mini that gets great reviews, there are several other entry level units that can get you started, Traeger Tailgater or Junior, Pit boss at Menards, Green Mountain Davy Crockett, Rec Tec Mini and more.  I mention pellet smokers because they are pretty hard to mess up on, much like cooking in your kitchen oven.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Thanks Frog, but I just dont have the space for a pellet smoker.  I have a very small patio which is already full with furniture & a grill.  There is not much more space to go.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> Pellets are actually very efficient as they burn completley while wood chips will not always burn completely. The flavor is up to you. @TJohnson  has a "Pitmaster Blend" that is a great all around pellet to start with (I believe he sends you some of it when you buy an AMNPS).


Yeah I see it comes with 1lb.  How many lbs does the AMPS tray take?


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> It looks like the AMPS does use more fuel than the standard chips though.  Maybe not as efficient?  Are pellets cheaper?
> 
> Any recommendations for type/flavor of chips / pellets?  Can I use the same pellets for fish as for Boston butt, or do I need a different flavor depending on what I'm making?


The amount of wood you burn is minimal either way. Todds units come with a few different pellets for you to try out. Most people use a light flavor of smoke for fish like alder or maple. Pork is best with fruit woods like apple, cherry, plum, peach, orange, etc.... But some people like harsher woods like hickory, oak, etc... Beef is all personal choice, well they all are but Beef can take a stronger flavored wood like Mesquite. I personally do not like mesquite but there are many southern members here than swear by it. It will all come down to what you like. If you only want a little smoke flavor you can do that. Or if you want it smoky you can do that too. Personally I like it smoky. I love apple, maple, oak, hickory, cherry, lilac, grape, rose, pimento, and on and on and on. Pecan is supposed to be really good but extremely hard to find where I live so I have not had the pleasure. Remember, this is not a wood stove you are using. The amount of wood is small to make good smoke for long periods of time. If your smoker looks like a coal locomotive chugging out big clouds of thick brown smoke you are not doing it right. I don't think pellets are any more expensive than chips. Either way you are getting a little bag of wood for a lot more money than if you picked it up out of an orchard or the backyard like I do. I use charcoal smokers, and that is what I like. I get almost all my wood from foraging in my yard and my neighbors yards and the surounding countryside. I do happen to live in the apple state and there is a lot of free apple, cherry, peach, plum and stuff around to find if you go looking. But for what it seems like you want this is the best advice I can give you.


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Yeah I see it comes with 1lb.  How many lbs does the AMPS tray take?


Here again, Todd Johnson. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/u/34955/tjohnson from this link you can speak to him yourself. I don't have one yet. Have not needed one with the equipment I use but I will be getting some stuff from him in the near future.


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## bmaddox (Apr 8, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Here again, Todd Johnson. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/u/34955/tjohnson from this link you can speak to him yourself. I don't have one yet. Have not needed one with the equipment I use but I will be getting some stuff from him in the near future.


Yep, send Todd a PM. He is a wealth of information and will usually respond within 24 hours (sometimes within minutes if he is online)


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> BTW - I found this probe.  If I dont need the wireless capability, can I just use something like this?  Would work for meat only though, not grate temp.  $13 on Amazon.


I sure would hate to burn a 75 dollar brisket because I cheaped out on a crappy el cheapo thermometer.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

I just went through all the reviews.  Most of them are fake. Scratching this one off my list.


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## bmaddox (Apr 8, 2015)

When I am buying a thermometer I stick with these three brands as they have never let me down: Taylor, Maverick, and Thermoworks.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

Thanks Bmaddox.  BTW - can you use these smokers in the rain?  An 8 hour Boston butt smoke cant guarantee me good weather.  Does it affect cooking times/results at all?  Does the raid mess up the probe electronics?


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

Check out the Maverick ET-732. They have added two new models since that one came out and I would bet you can get one for super cheap. I have had mine for over 3 years without a single problem. Here is a good read.http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/126310/maverick-model-et-732


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## bmaddox (Apr 8, 2015)

I would not use an electric smoker or probe thermometer in the rain. I understand the issue with unpredictable weather (it rains in Florida all the time) so if I think it might rain I use my smoker in the carport with a fan to blow the smoke outside. I have seen where others have built windscreens and rain covers to keep going outside in bad weather.


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/161573/maverick-et-733-thread and the newer model. The new model is in my opinion the same friggin thing with a few more bells and whistles but pretty much the same thing for more money. the newest one is bluetooth and I have not heard good things about it.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> I would not use an electric smoker or probe thermometer in the rain. I understand the issue with unpredictable weather (it rains in Florida all the time) so if I think it might rain I use my smoker in the carport with a fan to blow the smoke outside. I have seen where others have built windscreens and rain covers to keep going outside in bad weather.


Dan this is a bummer, a big bummer.  I cant organize any type of cover.  EDIT: I do have a patio umbrella on a block with wheels I can roll over, but I'm not too excited about it turning black ahha.


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

I have one of these. 100 bucks on sale and it has lasted 3 plus years. I'm about ready to replace is but man it sure has been great.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

timberjet said:


> I have one of these. 100 bucks on sale and it has lasted 3 plus years. I'm about ready to replace is but man it sure has been great.


Did the smoker turn it black?


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Dan this is a bummer, a big bummer.  I cant organize any type of cover.


I have seen people use a umbrella before man. EZ up shelters fold up and store in your garage. You can find them cheap in the spring too.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

I got to log.  Spent too much time on this already but as you can see, I'm addicted!  I'll be back soon.  Guys thanks for all your help.  This is great.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

I do have one of these for camping.  I'll probably smoke my brains out standing in there haha!


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## timberjet (Apr 8, 2015)

mummel said:


> Did the smoker turn it black?


No not at all. If you have been reading you would know by now that you are not creating a big cloud of dirty gnarly smoke. It is a whisp of barely seen smoke. Also I know the pic is small but the top of the canopy is such that it allows smoke out but not rain in.


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## mummel (Apr 8, 2015)

timberjet said:


> No not at all. If you have been reading you would know by now that you are not creating a big cloud of dirty gnarly smoke. It is a whisp of barely seen smoke. Also I know the pic is small but the top of the canopy is such that it allows smoke out but not rain in.


If this is the case then I'm sure the umbrella will work.  Thanks!


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Hey thanks again for all the help guys.  I have about a month before fishing season so will shop around for deals.  There is also the WAF I have to deal with.  Any tips on that front hahahahaha.  Will keep you posted.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Hey how many lbs of pellets would I need to get started?  I'll probably smoke once a week, 4X a month.  I'll mostly do fish (short smokes), but definitely want to try that Boston butt someone recommended (longer smoke).  I dont want to buy too much of one flavor because I'd like to experiment, but also dont want to pay for shipping too many different bags.

Where do you guys get your supplies?  I saw on Amazon they have Weber Apple Wood Chips (3lbs) for $4-$6.  This comes out to *$1.30 / lbs*.  How many smokes can I get our a bag like this?

I also see they have some Traeger PEL304 Hickory Barbeque Pellets (20lbs) for $25.  Also *$1.30 / lb*.  Would I get more smoke hours from pellets?


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## bmaddox (Apr 9, 2015)

I always buy my pellets from http://www.amazenproducts.com/  because Todd guarantees that his pellets are made of 100% of the specific wood. Some pellets use a base wood with flavorings added. Start with a couple of the 2lb bags to see what you like then start experimenting.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> I always buy my pellets from http://www.amazenproducts.com/  because Todd guarantees that his pellets are made of 100% of the specific wood. Some pellets use a base wood with flavorings added. Start with a couple of the 2lb bags to see what you like then start experimenting.


Looks like *$3-$3.50 / lb* with a minimum order of $35.  That's double the price but thanks, I will take a look.


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## bmaddox (Apr 9, 2015)

mummel said:


> Looks like *$3-$3.50 / lb* with a minimum order of $35.  That's double the price but thanks, I will take a look.


I am usually cheap and a bargain shopper but when it comes to things my family will eat I will spend a little more to get products that I know are quality. I don't think there is any sort of regulation for smoking pellets or any requirement for the brand to list every single ingredient so I stay away from the brands with unknown additives in their pellets. I'm sure they aren't selling anything dangerous but I don't like not knowing what is in them.

Also, if you read the bag of the Traeger pellets they say "contains 100% hardwood". That means it could be a mixture of cheap woods with a small amount of the actual flavor you are looking for. If I buy a bag of pecan pellets I want 100% pecan not 75% oak with 25% pecan.

But that's just me and I am known to be a little on the OCD side (or a lot OCD if you ask my wife).


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

All pellets are not created equal. You get what you pay for. If you want the device to work as it is supposed to you will have to use quality pellets. I have not heard good things about Traeger pellets from several people in my town that have their pellet grills. Nor have I heard good things about their products in general.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

What about the Weber pellets?  Weber is a trusted brand.


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## bmaddox (Apr 9, 2015)

I have not seen weber pellets. I have used there chips and they are fine but chips are easier to buy since it is plain to see what you are getting. Just make sure you read the bag thoroughly for any pellets. If they aren't specifically stating that they are 100% of the advertised wood species and contain zero additives then you should probably avoid them.


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

mummel said:


> What about the Weber pellets?  Weber is a trusted brand.


I have never seen Weber Pellets. Didn't know they made them since they don't make pellet cookers that I know of. Hmmm..... must be new. I would bet they are made by some large company and branded Weber. You want to use 100 percent real pellets like what todd has. Have you talked to him yet. He is a great guy and can give you the straight scoop on the subject.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Great thanks.  Yeah I meant to say Weber chips.  I'll probably give the chips a shot for fish, keep it simple seeing as though I'm learning.  When I get more experience, I'll get the AMPS and try the 1lb bag that it comes with.  Greet feedback, thanks guys.


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

chips are fine for fish. You are not smoking fish for too long. I would stick with apple or alder or a mixture for that.


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/u/73894/leah-elisheva This gal makes some awesome seafood. Check out her posts. She tries all kinds of stuff and will give you advice if you would like.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Yeah I saw a pic of that gal holding a big Striper in an evening dress.  CRAZY!  I will check it out.  I actually came across her pics while looking for a smoked bluefish recipe.

So for fish, I'll go with the Weber chips, and they have *apple, cherry, hickory, mesquite and pecan*.  Go with the apple or is there something better?


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

mummel said:


> Yeah I saw a pic of that gal holding a big Striper in an evening dress.  CRAZY!  I will check it out.  I actually came across her pics while looking for a smoked bluefish recipe.
> 
> So for fish, I'll go with the Weber chips, and they have *apple, cherry, hickory, mesquite and pecan*.  Go with the apple or is there something better?


chips are chips. I go with the cheapest I can find on those. I like alder and apple for the fish I smoke but that consists of Bass, Trout, Crappie, Perch, Catfish, Sturgeon, Salmon and Steelhead with the rare walleye thrown in for good measure. I am far enough from the west coast that good salt water fish is kind of hard to get.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

So:

Fish = apple

Pork = ?

Beef = ?


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

What about hickory for salmon?


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

You will just have to try them all and see what you like. I think you can't go wrong with apple as a go to wood for everything but I might be biased. I like to mix cherry in for beef myself with apple. That's just how I roll. It just depends on what I am trying to achieve. If I am doing jerk chicken I go with Pimento if I can get it. If I am doing lamb I go with Lilac or grape wood if I can find that. You will just have to experiment and see for yourself. Everyone has different tastes. If I am double smoking a Ham I use Hickory or if I am doing Bacon too. Although I have made Bacon with apple and it was awesome as well. Different woods compliment different rubs and sauces, and that is another factor to consider. Like I said earlier a lot of eastern and southern folks swear by Pecan. I can't wait to try some one of these days. I am just guessing as to where you are located is the east or southeast coast. You can get lots of wood there that I can't get here. I don't buy wood online unless it is pimento although I want to try Kiwa or whatever it's called from Hawaii one of these days too. Lots to think about. Just get 2 or 3 kinds and see what you like.


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## gary s (Apr 9, 2015)

If you will PM Bearcarver he can tell you all about MES 

Gary


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

mummel said:


> What about hickory for salmon?


Apple or alder, have done plum and it was good. Hickory is awfully harsh for salmon.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

The only thing is, if I do get the AMPS, then I should get a 5lb bag of something to at least use the $35 min for free shipping (or even a 20lb bag to save some $$$).  I assume I'll use 8oz to 1lb per smoke so a 20lb bag may be an overkill.

If I could only chose one of these for every thing (*pork, beef & poultry*, I will use chips for fish), which one would you recommend?

* Alder
* Apple
* Beech
* Charcoal
* Chili Pepper Spice
* Corn Cob
* Garlic Spice
* Italian Spice-Rosemary,Thyme,Basil
* Mesquite
* Pecan


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

I think I have stated what I like. Unless I am out of apple I use Maple since it is all over my property. I never run out of it.


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## leah elisheva (Apr 9, 2015)

Pistachio shells (if you eat the nuts and have the shells saved in a bag afterward) make great chips for fish too, though I sent you a note. Cheers and here's to your delicious adventure! I am excited!!!!! - Leah


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Thanks Leah.  I just sent you a note back.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Great thanks.  I will try the apple for my meats.  Cant wait.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Hey I'm looking at the 30" model, and it looks like it may be easier to work with on a stand of some sorts.  I will also probably put the smoker in a flower bed due to space restrictions.

Do you guys put your smokers on stands?  Any ideas?  Something decorative?


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## gary s (Apr 9, 2015)

Search the threads, some do 

gary


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

Leah Elisheva said:


> Pistachio shells (if you eat the nuts and have the shells saved in a bag afterward) make great chips for fish too, though I sent you a note. Cheers and here's to your delicious adventure! I am excited!!!!! - Leah


You are the one that turned me on to this. I use them when doing jerk chicken now too. Yum. Thanks Leah!


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## leah elisheva (Apr 9, 2015)

You're very welcome! And Knuckle47 on this site, put me onto them! And so we keep paying it forward as a resourceful thing! So very fun! Cheers! - Leah


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## timberjet (Apr 9, 2015)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/158870/mes-stand I just saw this. You were asking about a stand for that smoker.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

Yeah thanks.  I saw this but I am looking for something off this shelf that can work, that will look half decent.  Another guy had a tiled table top.  Looked fantastic.  I would need something low to the ground.  Dont want the smoker to blow off in a storm.  Some counter space would be nice.  Hopefully I can find something.


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## daricksta (Apr 9, 2015)

Here's what the new Bluetooth model looks like. http://www.masterbuilt.com/bluetooth-smoker Note that the controller is on top, same position as the Gen 1. The Sportsman Elite edition will run you over $400 which is still a good price for a new electric smoker.


This MES 30 Gen 1 is the one I own and have had great success with. If you're looking for the best smoker under $200 this is it.

The Masterbuilt model 20078715 is a Gen 2 and the prices have really fallen on it making it slightly more expensive than the MES 30 model 20070910. From what I've read, I'd stick with the Gen 1.


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

This MES (20078715) on Amazon is Gen 2.5 according to another CSR I called this morning.  She confirmed its exactly like the bluetooth model except without the bluetooth & the glass door etc.  She confirmed all the components are replaceable and she said the water tray is stepped/circular, and that the drip tray is at the bottom.

This is the second CSR to confirm this (I called them yesterday as well).  This smoker was released last month.

I'm pretty sure it's Gen 2.5 but I cant find any photos of the interior.  I dont want to be a guinea pig because CSRs are untrained and may be giving me false info.  How sure are you this smoker is Gen 2? 













41ZSGAEvHhL.jpg



__ mummel
__ Apr 9, 2015


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## daricksta (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm still hazy on this Gen 2.5 thing. Is Masterbuilt admitting it screwed up the Gen 2 models and is claiming they fixed everything with the Gen 2.5? Are the Bluetooth models that were released in Dec. 2014 designated Gen 3?


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## mummel (Apr 9, 2015)

They are saying that all these versions are 2.5 with different extras.  Where she lost all credibility was when she said that she had a gen 2 and it worked fine.  Total BS.  Do you know if they have this Amazon version in the 40" size.  I may be leaning towards that now.


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## bmaddox (Apr 10, 2015)

mummel said:


> Where she lost all credibility was when she said that she had a gen 2 and it worked fine.  Total BS.


Easy there killer. I have a gen 2 and can crank out great food time after time. I know there are plenty of people using the gen 2 with no problems. Yes the gen 1 had a better designed drip tray and water pan but that doesn't mean the gen 2 is completely obsolete.


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## bigd3077 (Apr 10, 2015)

Make sure to drink plenty of cold beer while smoking,  and also I find when I sit and stare at mine,  that help as well.


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## ajsmokes (Apr 10, 2015)

mummel said:


> Hey I'm looking at the 30" model, and it looks like it may be easier to work with on a stand of some sorts.  I will also probably put the smoker in a flower bed due to space restrictions.
> 
> 
> Do you guys put your smokers on stands?  Any ideas?  Something decorative?















20150228_145933.jpg



__ ajsmokes
__ Apr 10, 2015





Here what my stand looks like...


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## mummel (Apr 10, 2015)

Ajsmokes said:


> 20150228_145933.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is perfect.  Is this a Masterbuilt stand?  How much was it?


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## ajsmokes (Apr 10, 2015)

mummel said:


> This is perfect.  Is this a Masterbuilt stand?  How much was it?


It is a masterbuilt stand and I couldn't tell you the price. The misses bought the stand for me


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## mummel (Apr 10, 2015)

Very nice, I will look for one.


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## mummel (Apr 10, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> Easy there killer. I have a gen 2 and can crank out great food time after time. I know there are plenty of people using the gen 2 with no problems. Yes the gen 1 had a better designed drip tray and water pan but that doesn't mean the gen 2 is completely obsolete.


I should have rephrased - she said they they have had no customers contact them regarding Gen 2 and that she has had no problems.  I told her about consumer affairs & SMF and she said they were unaware of any issues.  She was probably just new otherwise that's really deceptive.


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## ajsmokes (Apr 10, 2015)

mummel said:


> Very nice, I will look for one.


she bought it on Amazon.


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## daricksta (Apr 10, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> Easy there killer. I have a gen 2 and can crank out great food time after time. I know there are plenty of people using the gen 2 with no problems. Yes the gen 1 had a better designed drip tray and water pan but that doesn't mean the gen 2 is completely obsolete.


It's because of posts like yours I don't put down the Gen 2 models. I do say that issues have been reported but many people have no problem with them. But since I own a MES 30 Gen 1, I recommend those because I have personal experience with this version.


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## bmaddox (Apr 10, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> It's because of posts like yours I don't put down the Gen 2 models. I do say that issues have been reported but many people have no problem with them. But since I own a MES 30 Gen 1, I recommend those because I have personal experience with this version.


Thanks @daRicksta

I have no problem with the overwhelming preference for the Gen 1 on this site. I just think that the Gen 2 is often completely dismissed as a non-functioning unit when it is very capable of cooking great food. If you find a gen 2 for a good deal (like I did) then you shouldn't be afraid of buying it because you could have a "better" version.


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## daricksta (Apr 10, 2015)

mummel said:


> The only thing is, if I do get the AMPS, then I should get a 5lb bag of something to at least use the $35 min for free shipping (or even a 20lb bag to save some $$$).  I assume I'll use 8oz to 1lb per smoke so a 20lb bag may be an overkill.
> 
> If I could only chose one of these for every thing (*pork, beef & poultry*, I will use chips for fish), which one would you recommend?
> 
> ...


Mummel, when you buy an AMNPS Todd Johnson throws in a 2 lb bag of Pitmaster's Choice which is a combo of cherry, hickory and maple. It's outstanding. As for me, I bought all the varieties I think I will need for any occasion and meat: oak, hickory, apple, alder, mesquite, and pecan. I like using cherry wood chips when I grill but I've read cherry wood pellets are difficult to keep burning on their own and need to be mixed with another wood like hickory or maple. Luckily for us Todd has created his Pitmaster's Choice which is the answer to the problem.

For the woods I think I'll be using a lot (oak and hickory) I bought 5 lb. bags. The others I bought in 2 lb. bags. I think I use less wood pellets than Todd recommends and I also don't smoke as much as other guys so a 2 lb. bag can last me all summer.


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## daricksta (Apr 10, 2015)

mummel said:


> They are saying that all these versions are 2.5 with different extras.  Where she lost all credibility was when she said that she had a gen 2 and it worked fine.  Total BS.  Do you know if they have this Amazon version in the 40" size.  I may be leaning towards that now.


To be released June 2015:


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## daricksta (Apr 10, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> Thanks @daRicksta
> 
> I have no problem with the overwhelming preference for the Gen 1 on this site. I just think that the Gen 2 is often completely dismissed as a non-functioning unit when it is very capable of cooking great food. If you find a gen 2 for a good deal (like I did) then you shouldn't be afraid of buying it because you could have a "better" version.


I'm seeing the "loaded" Gen 2 models online from $345 to over $400. I guess MB has found that customers prefer the non-Bluetooth 40" smokers with all the bells and whistles or maybe they've sold off all the cheaper plain Jane ones and these are the ones that are left. The 30" model 20070910 remains their best selling 30" I believe because if you're willing to wait you can buy it real cheap online and it's a good, reliable smoker.


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## mummel (Apr 11, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Mummel, when you buy an AMNPS Todd Johnson throws in a 2 lb bag of Pitmaster's Choice which is a combo of cherry, hickory and maple. It's outstanding. As for me, I bought all the varieties I think I will need for any occasion and meat: oak, hickory, apple, alder, mesquite, and pecan. I like using cherry wood chips when I grill but I've read cherry wood pellets are difficult to keep burning on their own and need to be mixed with another wood like hickory or maple. Luckily for us Todd has created his Pitmaster's Choice which is the answer to the problem.
> 
> For the woods I think I'll be using a lot (oak and hickory) I bought 5 lb. bags. The others I bought in 2 lb. bags. I think I use less wood pellets than Todd recommends and I also don't smoke as much as other guys so a 2 lb. bag can last me all summer.


I might just get a bag of the pitmasters mix and just use that for everything.  I can perhaps expand my pellet horizons once I have some idea of WTF Im doing haha.  I went to Costco today.  Looked at all the meats.  I think I'm going to get started on pork.  Cheapest in case I screw up and they also looked fricken delicious!


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## mummel (Apr 13, 2015)

I posted in a another thread about about smoking meat and fish at the same time.  Others mentioned they have 2 different smokers for this (obviously something I cant do).  I was really hoping to do both meat and fish at the same time.

But if smoking separately, is it a pain to clean up (and you find yourself sticking to either fish or meat instead of switching back and forth)?  I hadnt thought about this and just want to find out what's practical.  Sounds great in theory (i.e. smoke fish, clean up, then smoke meat), but if it's a huge hassle to clean, I dont see myself switching the whole time. 

BTW - still keeping my eyes open for smoker deals.  I'm not going to get the 30" Amazon version after that 30 vs 40 poll.


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## timberjet (Apr 13, 2015)

mummel said:


> I posted in a another thread about about smoking meat and fish at the same time.  Others mentioned they have 2 different smokers for this (obviously something I cant do).  I was really hoping to do both meat and fish at the same time.
> 
> But if smoking separately, is it a pain to clean up (and you find yourself sticking to either fish or meat instead of switching back and forth)?  I hadnt thought about this and just want to find out what's practical.  Sounds great in theory (i.e. smoke fish, clean up, then smoke meat), but if it's a huge hassle to clean, I dont see myself switching the whole time.
> 
> BTW - still keeping my eyes open for smoker deals.  I'm not going to get the 30" Amazon version after that 30 vs 40 poll.















witt.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jan 17, 2015


















steelhead p.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jan 19, 2015


















cheif 2.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jan 20, 2015


















cheif 1.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jan 20, 2015


















cheif 3.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jan 20, 2015






Keep your eye on craigslist. I use this smoker for fish. I got it for super cheap on CL. I have seen them at yard sales for under 20 bucks. You would find that once you do a bunch of fish in your smoker everything will smell and taste like fish. That is an electric blanket, I had to macgyver that up because it was way cold when I smoked these steelhead.


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## mummel (Apr 13, 2015)

Hey guys - what about using a natural gas grill and then getting an AMPS?  The cost of natural gas is dirt cheap and you would still be able to achieve the smoke with a AMPS?


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## bmaddox (Apr 13, 2015)

Most gas grills are high BTU units that are designed to crank out tons of heat (sometimes 700+ degrees). This type of cooking is the opposite of what you are going for. You can probably make it work if you can achieve enough temp control and get the food away from the burner but it will be a lot more work than cooking on a smoker.

On another note, you seem to have a lot of uncertainty on what you need for smoking. My advice would be to get a Brinkmann charcoal unit (known as an ECB) for $50 at home depot and start from there. They are very capable of smoking great food and will let you figure out exactly what you want without a huge investment. If you have to have electric (i.e. cooking on an apartment balcony) then get the electric ECB for $80. 








I see that you have made it to 90 posts without even buying a smoker which leads me to believe that you are having a hard time deciding. Get a super cheap smoker, Jeff's cook book, and a pork butt and see how it goes. For those three items you are in it for less than $100 and already have food on the table. (That is how I started and it worked great for me).


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## mummel (Apr 13, 2015)

Thanks man.  Yeah I really want to do this.  I dont mind being patient and doing the research first.  Thats what this forum is for!  That way I know exactly what I'm buying and I can make sure I get the right tools for the job.  It took ~100 posts to find out that grilling fish and meat in the same smoker is a bad idea, so that changes my game plan quite a bit! (i.e. maybe I will just get the $200 30" Amazon Gen 2.5 and just do fish?).

I'll figure it out.  I really appreciate all the help.  This forum is a wealth of info.  Really great stuff.  Thank you.


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## mummel (Apr 13, 2015)

Oh and I went to Costco this weekend to research meats.  Pork looks like the way to go.

I found:

Pork loin boneless = $1.99 / lb

Pork loin top loin roast = $2.49 / lb

Boneless pork shoulder = $1.89 / lb

Pork loin back ribs = $3.09 / lb

Pork St Louis spare ribs = $2.89 / lb

Pork loin tenderloin = $2.99 / lb

Of all these, the pork shoulder looked the most appealing (~15lbs, a huge wad of meat, in my mind it looks like it would work great for smoking).  Is this the Boston Butt everyone refers to?  But this meat was the cheapest of the lot.  Using the "get what you pay for" philosophy, would it be the driest / least tender?













2vtw3zm.jpg



__ mummel
__ Apr 13, 2015


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## mummel (Apr 13, 2015)

By the way - I spoke to Masterbuilt again.  The Gen 2.5 40 inch version, with no window or bluetooth, will be selling at Sams Club in 6-9 weeks.  The CSR did not know the MSRP.


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## daricksta (Apr 14, 2015)

mummel said:


> Oh and I went to Costco this weekend to research meats.  Pork looks like the way to go.
> 
> I found:
> 
> ...


Boston butt is another name for pork shoulder, either bone-in or boneless. Loin back ribs are also called baby back ribs. They're considered the tenderest of pork ribs. St Louis-style spareribs are just the spareribs trimmed of what's called the brisket, including what are called riblets. Spareribs are a bit tougher than baby backs but like all tough meat, long and slow tenderizes everything. Many people feel spareribs are more flavorful than baby backs. There are You Tube videos which teach you how to trim ribs yourself; it's not hard at all.


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## timberjet (Apr 14, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Boston butt is another name for pork shoulder, either bone-in or boneless.


Yes sometimes cheap is good. One good reason for low and slow smoking and BBQing is the fact that you can turn a cheap and tough piece of meat into something divine. When choosing a Butt for smoking don't look for a lean super trimmed one like the picture there. You want fat. Fat is flavor and moisture. Most of it renders off during the long cooking process. A chuck roast is the Beef equivalent of the Pork shoulder or Butt. It is done much the same way and with much the same results only Beefy.













ignition 2.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Jul 26, 2014






This is a Picnic shoulder which can also be refered to as a Butt. This one was 12 pounds. 99 cents per pound.


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## daricksta (Apr 14, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Yes sometimes cheap is good. One good reason for low and slow smoking and BBQing is the fact that you can turn a cheap and tough piece of meat into something divine. When choosing a Butt for smoking don't look for a lean super trimmed one like the picture there. You want fat. Fat is flavor and moisture. Most of it renders off during the long cooking process. A chuck roast is the Beef equivalent of the Pork shoulder or Butt. It is done much the same way and with much the same results only Beefy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a great price.Round these parts pork shoulders have gotten expensive due to their rise in popularity. I've never seen an entire pork shoulder like this in the supermarkets or at Costco.


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## timberjet (Apr 15, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> What a great price.Round these parts pork shoulders have gotten expensive due to their rise in popularity. I've never seen an entire pork shoulder like this in the supermarkets or at Costco.


Look for a Super One foods. They have great meat sections. I would think you might have one on the west side. We have them all over on the eastern side of the state and eastern oregon. That is where I try to get all my meat. It's the best we have around here and usually the best price too.


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## daricksta (Apr 15, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Look for a Super One foods. They have great meat sections. I would think you might have one on the west side. We have them all over on the eastern side of the state and eastern oregon. That is where I try to get all my meat. It's the best we have around here and usually the best price too.


We don't have a Super 1 store in western Washington state; they're all in the central and eastern regions. Three corporations control 98% or more of the supermarkets around here. We had a new Western WA chain move into town recently and I think another new supermarket is about to open so there's hope for cheaper prices yet. I restrict myself to buying pork products from Safeway because they're the only chain that doesn't add saline solution to their pork products. Even Costco sells pork ribs from Swift Premium that inject this crap into the meat so I rarely buy from them unless I need a lot of ribs at a decent price.


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## mummel (Apr 15, 2015)

Do you know if Costco slices up meat?  Do they do custom orders in the butchery?


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## timberjet (Apr 15, 2015)

mummel said:


> Do you know if Costco slices up meat?  Do they do custom orders in the butchery?


Yes they do if there is a meat cutter there at the time. They will custom cut what you want out of what they have.


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## timberjet (Apr 15, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> We don't have a Super 1 store in western Washington state; they're all in the central and eastern regions. Three corporations control 98% or more of the supermarkets around here. We had a new Western WA chain move into town recently and I think another new supermarket is about to open so there's hope for cheaper prices yet. I restrict myself to buying pork products from Safeway because they're the only chain that doesn't add saline solution to their pork products. Even Costco sells pork ribs from Swift Premium that inject this crap into the meat so I rarely buy from them unless I need a lot of ribs at a decent price.


Well, ellensburg is not too far from seattle. I would say it's a nice drive but you know better. lol. I really like their meat. No soloution added for weight like all the other chains. I have not had any good meat from safeway in walla walla. They suck. Albertsons just turned into something else and it sucks even worse now. Have you looked into any small time butchers. I would think there would be a good organic pork producer or maybe quite a few around on the west side.


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## mummel (Apr 15, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Yes they do if there is a meat cutter there at the time. They will custom cut what you want out of what they have.


I called Costco and they said they wont do it.  Maybe its a regional thing?  I will stop by the store again this weekend and speak with a manager.


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## daricksta (Apr 15, 2015)

mummel said:


> Do you know if Costco slices up meat?  Do they do custom orders in the butchery?


I don't know. We're going there this weekend so I can ask. I do know you can order special party meat platters and such so perhaps they might be able to do it for you. If there's one near you then you can visit and just rap on the glass behind the meat counter and ask them yourself.


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## daricksta (Apr 15, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Well, ellensburg is not too far from seattle. I would say it's a nice drive but you know better. lol. I really like their meat. No soloution added for weight like all the other chains. I have not had any good meat from safeway in walla walla. They suck. Albertsons just turned into something else and it sucks even worse now. Have you looked into any small time butchers. I would think there would be a good organic pork producer or maybe quite a few around on the west side.


Ironically, my daughter used to live in Ellensburg since she was attending CWU. She's almost attained her Master's but she lives somewhere else now. It can be a nice drive but the time and costs involved would make it very expensive meat no matter what the per pound cost was.

We have a local butcher here but the quality's dropped off after the son took over after his father died. For my money (literally) Safeway has got the best of the chain store meat. We just lost our store in town here when Haggen bought it. Haggen also has great looking meat but the store itself is way too expensive so we're shopping at a Safeway in the next town. We also shop at Winco but I don't like the looks of their meat (the way it's butchered) or that it can be either USDA Select or USDA Choice. We also have a Fred Meyer that sells both Select and Choice (but for a higher price). Safeway is my meat place when we're not shopping at Costco.


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## daricksta (Apr 15, 2015)

mummel said:


> I called Costco and they said they wont do it.  Maybe its a regional thing?  I will stop by the store again this weekend and speak with a manager.


Read this after I read your reply. As I was writing my comment I figured they wouldn't because it would raise costs if all they did was custom slice or butcher meat. It's an assembly line process in all the stores since they do such a high volume.

You could get yourself a meat slicer. I think Bearcarver has one that he likes. I might get one someday but until then I've got a really fine set of knives and my knife skills are getting better all the time.


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## mummel (Apr 27, 2015)

Hey guys - I'm going to Sam's on Sunday to checkout the BT models.  

I did however want to ask about smoking meat on a regular propane grill.  Granted you dont have the world of options an MES offers (18 hour butt smokes, briskets, cheeses etc), but as I'm just starting out, being able to smoke fish (1.5 hour smoke) and ribs (3 hours) would be a great place for me to learn before dropping hundreds on a full MES setup.

I was looking at Todd's tube smoker.  I have 4 burners.  Could I run 2 burners and put say a rack of ribs over the other 2 unlit burners?  Then light up a 12 inch tube (placement on the top rack, see pic), and cook for 3 hours?  Do guys do this?  Is it a popular method?

Just curious to hear your thoughts?  Thanks.

NOTE:

-I need to see if 2 burners can each 225F for fish and 230F for pork ribs.













DA3100.jpg



__ mummel
__ Apr 27, 2015


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## mummel (Apr 27, 2015)

Here something like this? http://www.thermoworks.com/blog/2013/06/turning-propane-grill-smoker/


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## bmaddox (Apr 27, 2015)

Sure it can work. But will it be anywhere as efficient as a smoker? No. Grills are designed for high powered direct heat. Depending on the grill you could end up modifying it extensively with heat deflectors, gaskets to seal the lid, etc. You would get better results out of a $150 Masterbuilt analog or a $75 electric ECB.


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## mummel (Apr 27, 2015)

You referring to the amount of propane used?  I know when I've done a rotisserie chicken at 350F it chews up a lot of propane (maybe 25%-50% of an $11 bottle)?  It's very poor efficiency.  But I'm thinking 265F may be more efficient (assuming heat vs propane used does not scale linearly).  If it does, then smoking on a grill doesnt make sense.

I would be really curious to see how much of a 20lb propane bottle I would use smoking at 265 for 3 hours.


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## bmaddox (Apr 27, 2015)

I was just talking about general efficiency and ease of use. Such as the ability to maintain a constant temp, ability to keep the food separated from the heat source and provide consistent indirect heat, etc. Grills are typically not insulated and have no way to seal the lid to help keep the hot air in and maintain temps.


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## brianlamb41 (Apr 27, 2015)

I found a lot of success using an aluminum baking pan, as small as possible height-wise.  Soak 1/3 to 1/2 of your wood chips and toss them into the baking sheet.  Cover with foil, poke your holes, and put the pan directly onto your burner covers.  

That should provide a good amount of smoke on a propane grill.


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## the smoke (Apr 28, 2015)

I just read the whole thread and wanted to make a couple of points:

--You can smoke on a grill. I did it for five years on a Weber with their smoking accessory and it turned out good product. I ran one burner at about 30% and it maintained rock solid 225 degrees. Not the most efficient or fun way to smoke, but it did the job. I have my suspicions that all the smoke destroyed the grill over the course of five years because that grill self destructed rather quickly for a Weber. But just suspicions, no solid evidence there.

--Make sure you fully understand your requirements and priorities. It seems like set and forget is a priority (hence the AMZN interest). If that is a really a priority, you should get a smoker that is truly "set and forget," not a smoker that requires additional purchases to get to "set and forget." If you buy an inexpensive smoker that doesn't meet your requirements, but then have to buy a pellet tray, $35 worth of pellets, a decent thermometer, etc... your inexpensive smoker does not ended being so inexpensive.

--My buddy Mitch wanted to get into smoking and bought a Masterbuilt. Unfortunately most of his stories since then have not been about great smokes, but rather about his controller and heating element dying on him multiple times and waiting to get replacement parts from Masterbuilt so he could smoke. Not saying this is is indicative of the overall Masterbuilt experience, just giving you some anecdotal info that may be relevant to where you are in your smoking journey. 

--If you go the pellet route, make sure there are a few retailers nearby that you can get to quickly in a pinch. I have smoked with chunks and chips and I know that if I run out of wood on a Saturday night, or if I just want to try something different at a moment's notice, I can go to one of a dozen places nearby and get what I want. 

--I also went through the same search you did, seeking answers to my questions. I also came here thinking I wanted a Masterbuilt (mostly because they have the most presence in my retail market).  I now have a smoker I love that easily produces phenomenal food and it is not at all what I thought I would end up with before I read what this forum has to offer. 

--Regarding your questions about which meat and which wood: at some point you need to just buy a butt and some wood and just jump in and start gaining experience. There is no replacement for experience. Have fun! If this was rocket science I would not be able to do it (:


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## mummel (Apr 28, 2015)

Wow, thanks for the thoughtful answer.  Lots of useful info here.

1) You Weber self destructing?  What happened?  Rust?  Burners stopped working? 

2) It seems like whatever I get (MES, go with the grill, or otherwise), an AMPS 5X8 tray is probably what I will end up getting for convenience.

3) Good point Re: the pellets.  I'll buy some bulk from Todd.

4) So what smoker did you end up getting?  Seems like you went through the same thought process.

I'm really leaning towards trying it on the grill with a AMPS/iGrill2 first.  That way I can get my feet wet and see how often I actually end up smoking (New England weather........), and then can always use the tray & probe when I get my MES.  No gear will be wasted. 

Thanks man.


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## the smoke (Apr 28, 2015)

1) You Weber self destructing?  What happened?  Rust?  Burners stopped working? 

--Yes, all of the above, The burners actual fell off and into the drip pan. Eventually it became a fire hazard.

2) It seems like whatever I get (MES, go with the grill, or otherwise), an AMPS 5X8 tray is probably what I will end up getting for convenience.

3) Good point Re: the pellets.  I'll buy some bulk from Todd.

4) So what smoker did you end up getting?  Seems like you went through the same thought process.

--I ended up getting a "Smokin It" smoker #3. Set and forget was a priority for me because I spent a lot of time and $$ pouring wood into that grill. Grills aren't sealed at all and you will most likely have smoke coming out every which way.

I'm really leaning towards trying it on the grill with a AMPS/iGrill2 first.  That way I can get my feet wet and see how often I actually end up smoking (New England weather........), and then can always use the tray & probe when I get my MES.  No gear will be wasted. 

--If you already have a grill then that is a no brainer. No additional real estate required and I enjoyed that aspect of it. Get your first smoke up and running and see how it goes. My prediction is that you will be happy. I have an iGrill2 and it seems to be pretty good although the range is *extremely* limited for me (my house footprint is ~70x80ft with concrete block construction). The probes are getting to be a pain in the neck because of the vertical arrangement of my smoker. When I am smoking multiple items (which is all the time) I end up having to run the probes down through multiple grates, and then if I want to pull a grate out, the probes come out. Should not be as bad with a single-level grill setup. I smoked on my grill for five years using only the built-in grill thermometer and nearly everything came out great. Except for one brisket. But I suck at cooking brisket so what can I say.


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## mummel (Apr 28, 2015)

I have the Ducane Affinity 4100.  Its an excellent grill.  I am *very* happy with it.  This was Weber's made in China brand.  I'm pretty sure they discontinued it because of it's own success (it was cannibalizing Weber's own market share).  Great grill made by Weber with great components at a fraction of the price.  Only thing that failed after a year was the igniter but Weber replaced it without an issue.  I should have bought 2 of these grills and kept one as a backup (think I paid $250?). 

Did you use a water pan in your grill when smoking?  Perhaps the moisture destroyed the components?  I would hate for my grill to fall apart (penny wise pound foolish?).  I need to research this more. 

I was set on the Maverick 733 (was going to get a MES and smoke overnight so would need the 733 for range).  However, if I use the grill, I will smoke at most for ~3 hours, and will probably be close by.  I wouldnt need range to reach my bedroom.  I would then value the 4 probes + charting function over range.  However, if I end up getting an MES, then the iGrill wont be the right choice.  Tough decision.


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## timberjet (Apr 28, 2015)

Man, just get smoking already! Hahahaha.... talk about over thinking it.


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## mummel (Apr 28, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Man, just get smoking already! Hahahaha.... talk about over thinking it.


I have to drive an hour 20 to get to a Sams.  I was supposed to go on Sunday but could not as we had people come over.  They had 10 units in stock on Friday morning.  They sold them all over the weekend.  They dont know when they will get more...........  So now I'm waiting but started to research the grill angle yesterday.  I'll probably just go with a AMPS tray and some pellets and get going.  Holding out for a day or 2 in the hope that Sams gets more MES units.


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## the smoke (Apr 28, 2015)

No moisture pan for me. 

You definitely need to do more research. (: Here is a research methodology I would recommend for you:

1. Go to the store and buy a butt and some wood chips.
2. Put some salt, pepper, paprika, or whatever spices you have all over the butt. Soak the chips for 1/2 hour and put a couple handfuls in an aluminum foil pouch with some holes in the top. Put the pouch between your grates and your Flavor Bars as Weber calls them. Put the butt on a cookie sheet or a disposable aluminum tray and put it in your grill. Close the grill.
3. Light the burner under your pouch and adjust until your grill thermo reads 225 degrees or so. 
4. This is the difficult part. Multiply the number of pounds your butt weighs by 2 and write that number down on your arm. 
5. Reward yourself for completing that difficult task by drinking beer and smoking cigars for that number of hours. Do not open your grill because that means your are not drinking beers and smoking cigars.
6. When that time is up, wrap your butt in aluminum foil and towels and put it in a cooler or something for an hour or so.
7. Eat the pork and cry unfathomable tears of joy while the pork juices run down your face and onto your naked belly. 

When you complete this methodology you will have everything you need to smoke at virtually no cost and will be well on your way to your first smoke! (:


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## mummel (Apr 28, 2015)

The Smoke said:


> No moisture pan for me.
> 
> You definitely need to do more research. (: Here is a research methodology I would recommend for you:
> 
> ...


HAHA this is awesome.  Particularly the cigars part.  I had a smile on my face the whole way though.  The only catch is that the Amazen 20% coupon ends in 2 days :(.  But your plan sounds golden!


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## timberjet (Apr 28, 2015)

The Smoke said:


> No moisture pan for me.
> 
> You definitely need to do more research. (: Here is a research methodology I would recommend for you:
> 
> ...


Hahahahaha....... love it. But seriously, wet wood does not smoke until it is dry wood so no soaking.


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## kenafein (Apr 28, 2015)

Here is the link to the good version of the MES 40".  It's a lot wider than the 30" and you'd be able to cook whole racks of ribs without cutting them (if that's important to you).  It's $309, but you might want the added capacity down the line.  Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## daricksta (Apr 28, 2015)

The Smoke said:


> I just read the whole thread and wanted to make a couple of points:
> 
> --You can smoke on a grill. I did it for five years on a Weber with their smoking accessory and it turned out good product. I ran one burner at about 30% and it maintained rock solid 225 degrees. Not the most efficient or fun way to smoke, but it did the job. I have my suspicions that all the smoke destroyed the grill over the course of five years because that grill self destructed rather quickly for a Weber. But just suspicions, no solid evidence there.
> 
> ...


I fully agree up to a point about Masterbuilt owners, being as I am one. Where we agree is that those of us who buy entry level MES 30s are looking for a set-it-and-forget smoking experience. We're not Myron Mixon with his big competition rigs who maintains that true BBQ requires constant observation and interaction and not sitting in backyard lounge or inside on the couch drinking a beer while the meat smokes unattended. I bought my electric smoker so I _could_ just sit back while the smoker did its thing until I was called on to foil meat or to brush it with some finishing juice or sauce.

My MES has been virtually trouble-free: no heating element or real controller problems. Because of the design of my smoker I do have to fine tune my set point when the interior temp remains a bit too low or when it overshoots the set point. But that's like smoking while being asleep compared to what's called for with a stick burner over a 16-hour to all night smoke. My smokes rarely exceed 6 hours and I've smoked a variety of meats and cheeses. From a flavor and presentation standpoint, I'll pit my finished products against any other home smoker. I'll go as far as to say by barbecued stuff matches or exceeds the products of every BBQ restaurant that I've eaten at in my area. The fact that four of them are out of business proves the accuracy of my comment.

There are highly experienced and outstanding smokers in this forum who use Masterbuilts. There are good machines that have come out of those Chinese factories (like mine) and not so good ones. Ford just recalled a few hundred thousand cars--AMERICAN MADE cars--that are potential deathtraps. It's just the nature of the mass-produced beast these days. If someone buys a MES which turns out to be a lemon, Masterbuilt will make it right--sometimes they just have to be pushed a little.


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## daricksta (Apr 28, 2015)

timberjet said:


> Hahahahaha....... love it. But seriously, wet wood does not smoke until it is dry wood so no soaking.


Timberjet,

I just read a Mexican food recipe in a brand new cooking magazine which called for soaking wood chips for 30-60 minutes before being thrown onto hot charcoal or wood. It was a slow cook recipe using a grill as a smoker. It gets me that professional cooks who create and write recipes in cookbooks and magazines should know by now that soaking wood chips does nothing to extend their smoking life. Perhaps those cooks know very little about real BBQ so they fall back on outdated info, I don't know.


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## timberjet (Apr 28, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Timberjet,
> 
> I just read a Mexican food recipe in a brand new cooking magazine which called for soaking wood chips for 30-60 minutes before being thrown onto hot charcoal or wood. It was a slow cook recipe using a grill as a smoker. It gets me that professional cooks who create and write recipes in cookbooks and magazines should know by now that soaking wood chips does nothing to extend their smoking life. Perhaps those cooks know very little about real BBQ so they fall back on outdated info, I don't know.


You know that is a good question. I think it's just such an old practice that people think it's written in stone. Doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it would be a way to add steam to the equation but that could be done other ways. I don't know. Just about every smoker owners manual calls for it too. I think a lot of these food writers maybe don't even make the stuff they write about.


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## the smoke (Apr 28, 2015)

The reason to soak your chips is because on a grill in contact with a burner, the wood can fully combust (as I can attest, unfortunately).


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## mummel (Apr 28, 2015)

Hey guys.  So I just tested my grill which I plan to use as a makeshift smoker until I can get a new MES 40 BT through Sams (they are out of stock - no word on when they will have inventory).

Anyway, I just tested my Ducane Affinity 4100 (4 burners, 12k BTUs per burner).  Man this thing gets hot.  If I turn on one burner and set it to the lowest setting, I could get the temps (if you trust the built in thermometer) to around 225F, and thats with quite a bit of wind and 58F ambient temps outside (it was cool outside).  Im sure on a hot summers day temps will be much higher (maybe +40F?).  I never paid much attention to it but wow, it gets hot.

So yeah, do you think this could work?  

On the plus side, a 20lb propane tank has 430k BTUs in it.  If I'm burning one 12k BTU burner on the lowest setting, and say it 6k BTUs to be conservative, then one $12 bottle of propane should theoretically last me ~70 hours.  That seems even more efficient than electricity :)

So what happens if I cook my ribs at 260F vs 230F?  Am I setting myself up for failure?  TY guys.


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## daricksta (Apr 28, 2015)

The Smoke said:


> The reason to soak your chips is because on a grill in contact with a burner, the wood can fully combust (as I can attest, unfortunately).


You sure you weren't using buffalo chips? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






(Thank you, I'll be here all week. Remember to tip your waitress....)

Anyway, I only grill with charcoal and I used to smoke with wood chips. Masterbuilt doesn't recommend soaking wood chips, though. A BBQ instructor told us that soaking wood chips gives you maybe 2-3 more seconds of wood chip than you would've had otherwise. So, when I throw wood chips over hot charcoal I no longer soak them.


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## daricksta (Apr 28, 2015)

mummel said:


> Hey guys.  So I just tested my grill which I plan to use as a makeshift smoker until I can get a new MES 40 BT through Sams (they are out of stock - no word on when they will have inventory).
> 
> Anyway, I just tested my Ducane Affinity 4100 (4 burners, 12k BTUs per burner).  Man this thing gets hot.  If I turn on one burner and set it to the lowest setting, I could get the temps (if you trust the built in thermometer) to around 225F, and thats with quite a bit of wind and 58F ambient temps outside (it was cool outside).  Im sure on a hot summers day temps will be much higher (maybe +40F?).  I never paid much attention to it but wow, it gets hot.
> 
> ...


I can only comment on the cook temp since I know nothing about cooking on a propane grill or with a propane smoker. 260° should be fine. The ribs will just cook that much more quickly. I think you're good even up to 275°.

I think that was the average temp I got on my MES 30 last week. I cooked two racks of St. Louis ribs unfoiled for about 7 hours--which was a mistake. I think they were done at about the 5.5 hour mark because they were falling off the bone by the time I took them out of the smoker. They were really good but I like them a little less done. My wife and brother-in-law and my bro-in-law's dogs _loved _them!


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## the smoke (Apr 28, 2015)

Hi Mummel,

I think you will be fine, at least until summer. When you get into summer, make sure you have your grill in the shade (if you're still using it). What meat are you going to smoke?


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## daricksta (Apr 28, 2015)

timberjet said:


> You know that is a good question. I think it's just such an old practice that people think it's written in stone. Doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it would be a way to add steam to the equation but that could be done other ways. I don't know. Just about every smoker owners manual calls for it too. I think a lot of these food writers maybe don't even make the stuff they write about.


I heard a little 5-minute radio feature where two cooks/bloggers were talking about how badly edited many cookbooks are. I don't know for sure but I think certain cookbook publishing houses establish procedures and then lock them in stone no matter what changes in the real world.

I just checked two smoking books I own that I think are among the best. Ray "Dr. BBQ" Lampe in "Slow Fire" talks about taking handfuls of wood chips or chunks but says nothing about soaking them. In "Smoke & Spice" Cheryl and Bill Jamison advise soaking wood chips for at least 30 minutes to produce smoke not flame. However, from personal experience I've gotten exactly the same amount of smoke whether the wood chips were soaked or not. So I don't smoke them.

However, I'm going to make an exception for grilling pizza and beer can chicken where I add wood chips for extra flavor. If I'm grilling steak I don't care that much about flame ups. But with the pizza and chicken I don't want flames charring the crust or the chicken skin before the rest of the pizza or chicken is done. So, for those reasons only I'll soak the wood chips. But, as you said, Timberjet, the wood chips add steam and that's one component I don't like at all when I'm grilling but with the heat from the charcoal the steam is quickly gone and, besides, you don't want to throw on chips that much anyway since you're only going for a touch of smoke flavor anyway.


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## kenafein (Apr 28, 2015)

Cooking on the grillis no problem at all.  You might just need to fiddle a bit more to maintain your temps, and you will need to change your smoke pouches if that is what you are using.

Also, ribs can be cooked in the  low 300s.  I have cooked turkeys at 325, with smoke pouches, on a gasser and had great smoke penetration.  The lower you can get the better though because you want a lot of smoke to hit those ribs.


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## mummel (Apr 29, 2015)

Thanks guys.


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## timberjet (Apr 29, 2015)

mummel said:


> Hey guys.  So I just tested my grill which I plan to use as a makeshift smoker until I can get a new MES 40 BT through Sams (they are out of stock - no word on when they will have inventory).
> 
> Anyway, I just tested my Ducane Affinity 4100 (4 burners, 12k BTUs per burner).  Man this thing gets hot.  If I turn on one burner and set it to the lowest setting, I could get the temps (if you trust the built in thermometer) to around 225F, and thats with quite a bit of wind and 58F ambient temps outside (it was cool outside).  Im sure on a hot summers day temps will be much higher (maybe +40F?).  I never paid much attention to it but wow, it gets hot.
> 
> ...


Just do it. Haha.... I don't know how much I would trust that built in thermometer. I have yet to see one that is right. Get yourself a digital, even a cheap one will be much more accurate than what comes with your grill.


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## mummel (Apr 29, 2015)

Ok sorting it out, will report back once I have everything.


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