# Head to Head: Brine Vs Dry Cure



## disco

I got a full loin and was going to break it down into two small hams and some back (Americans call it Canadian) bacon. I decided it was the perfect time to decide if I prefer brine or dry cure.













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__ disco
__ Jul 17, 2013






I started by trimming off a lot of the fat (I will use it in sausage).













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__ Jul 17, 2013






I broke it down into four pieces, two bacon and two ham. One of each will be done in brine with the other dry cured.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






I put 2 in a basic Pop's Brine. 

1/2 gallon water

1/2 cup kosher salt

1/4 cup maple syrup

1/4 cup brown sugar

1/2 tbsp prague powder













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__ disco
__ Jul 17, 2013






I rubbed 2 with my own maple cure.

25 ml (2 tablesoons) kosher salt

4 ml (3/4 teaspoon) Prague Powder #1

25 ml brown sugar

25 ml maple syrup

This is for 2.5 pound of pork and has to be adjusted to the weight of each piece.













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__ disco
__ Jul 17, 2013






I forgot to put in the original post that my loin was 2 inches thick at the thickest point. If your loin is thicker, you will have to increase the curing times. Two days for every 1/2 inch and add 2 to 3 days, for example:

2 inches thick has four 1/2 inches, 2X4 is eight days, add two or three, cure for 10 to 11 days.
1 1/2 inches thick as three 1/2 inches, 2X3 is six days, add two or three, cure for 8 or 9 days. 
Disco

Then the whole lot went in the fridge to cure for 10 days. I overhauled the dry cure every other day and moved the pieces around in the brine a couple of times.

I took it out of the brine and let them sit in the fridge over night.

The next day, the only difference I could see between the brined and cured was the brined was a slightly lighter colour. The brined is on the right in this picture.













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__ disco
__ Jul 17, 2013






I started off by putting my new Bear cooler in the Bradley. In a prior post, I had used ice in a tray and the condensation dripped onto my A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker (AMNPS) and put it out. Bear told me about freezing a bottle and putting it in a pan. It worked great. There was 1/3 cup of condensation in the pan after it was removed from the cold smoking.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






I loaded one channel of the AMNPS with pecan sawdust. And lit it up.













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Here is the Bradley loaded up. I cold smoked for 3 hours and then increased the temperature to 150F for another 3 hours to give the ham some colour.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






About 1/2 hour into the 150F period, the sawdust ran out. I fired the AMNPS up with a mixture of Maple and Cherry pellets as I was going to be increasing the heat to take the bacon to 145 internal temperature later and the sawdust can only be used to 180 F.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






After the 3 hours, I pulled the ham pieces. I like to finish the ham over steam as I find it gives it a more ham like texture.













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I wrap the ham pieces in cellophane.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






I then put it on a rack over water in a large electric skillet.













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It has been hot here on the mountain so I steamed it outside to keep the house cool.













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 I took it to an internal temperature of 145 F. I let it cool and put it in the fridge overnight.

In the meantime, after taking the hams out, I had increased the temperature of the Bradley to 230 F and took the internal temperature on the bacon pieces to 145 F.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






Here is the whole package. Into the fridge overnight.













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The next day, this is the dry cured ham. It is tasty and has a nice moist texture even though it is very lean.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






This is the brined ham. I don`t think the colour is quite as good but the taste is as good as the cured and I think the texture is even better with a softer ham feel and taste.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






This is the cured bacon.













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This is the brined bacon. Again, I think the colour of the cured is marginally better.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






Here is a slice of both bacons frying. The cured is on the left and the brined on the right. I preferred the texture of the dry cured as it crisped a bit better. She who must be obeyed preferred the brined saying she felt it had a nicer chew, We both agreed the textures were very good for both. I would give a slight edge to the brined in taste. It just seemed to be a bit smoother cured flavour.













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__ Jul 17, 2013






The verdict: I would say it is a toss up. Both tastes great. Both had great texture. In colour, a marginal win for the dry cure. In taste, a tie in the ham with a very slight win for the brine in the bacon. In texture, I preferred the brine for a ham and the cure for the bacon but the differences were very minor. I believe I will use brine from now on as it is just easier to prepare and use.


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## themule69

Disco

Very nice side by side. the color looks great I have done both ways. It is brine for me as well and for the same reason. When i cure chops I prefer the dry.

Thanks for a very good show and tell

David


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## smokinhusker

It all looks very good from here! Grocer has boneless loin on sale for $1.99 lb, so I'll be doing some too. I like your ham.


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## gary morris

They both look delicious, nice one Disco.


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## disco

themule69 said:


> Disco
> 
> Very nice side by side. the color looks great I have done both ways. It is brine for me as well and for the same reason. When i cure chops I prefer the dry.
> 
> Thanks for a very good show and tell
> 
> David


Thanks, David. I haven't tried cured pork chops yet. One of the multitude of projects I haven't got to.


SmokinHusker said:


> It all looks very good from here! Grocer has boneless loin on sale for $1.99 lb, so I'll be doing some too. I like your ham.


Thanks, Alesia. The cost of meat these days means you have to look for deals.


Gary Morris said:


> They both look delicious, nice one Disco.


Very kind words. Thanks, Gary.

Disco


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## mr t 59874

Thanks for the side by side tutorial, very good and nice pics.

Tom


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## smoking b

The bacon & hams look really tasty!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






    Nice comparison too  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   When I did my "Canadian bacon challenge - dry cure vs brine - side by side test" back in January 3 out of the 4 judges chose the dry cured bacon as their favorite but all agreed that it was very close. Either way is a winner & much better than store bought


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## dirtsailor2003

Great job Disco! And a nice write up! Points!


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## woodcutter

All great looking from here! Thanks for posting.


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## pc farmer

Great job Disco, You do great threads.


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## foamheart

White boxes still with little red X's!
If we are bowling I think that would be a strike in the first frame. Woot in editing now I get all coded text......


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## jaxrmrjmr

c farmer said:


> Great job Disco, You do great threads.


I agree.  Good job and write up.

What is the difference between the ham and the bacon?  How it's brought up to temp - smoking vs steaming?


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## sqwib

Well played sir.
This is some great info, thanks


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## disco

Smoking B said:


> The bacon & hams look really tasty!
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> When I did my "Canadian bacon challenge - dry cure vs brine - side by side test" back in January 3 out of the 4 judges chose the dry cured bacon as their favorite but all agreed that it was very close. Either way is a winner & much better than store bought


Thanks Smoking B. I wish I hadn't missed that post! I could have saved some work! However, it is always good to try for yourself to meet your own tastes.

Disco


dirtsailor2003 said:


> Great job Disco! And a nice write up! Points!


Thanks DS. Your kindness is only surpassed by your wisdom!

Disco


Woodcutter said:


> All great looking from here! Thanks for posting.


Thanks for the kind words, Woodcutter.

I love cooking. I love posting. I love reading about food. Therefore, no need to thank me for posting. You might be asking me to shut up!

Disco


c farmer said:


> Great job Disco, You do great threads.


Thanks, c farmer. That is very kind. I sometimes wonder if I do too much Qview.

Disco


Mr T 59874 said:


> Thanks for the side by side tutorial, very good and nice pics.
> 
> Tom


Thanks for reading the thread, Tom.

Disco


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## pc farmer

Never too much q-view.


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## disco

Foamheart said:


> White boxes still with little red X's!
> If we are bowling I think that would be a strike in the first frame. Woot in editing now I get all coded text......


Well, considering how poorly I bowl, a strike in any way is good. Thanks, Foamheart.


JaxRmrJmr said:


> I agree.  Good job and write up.
> 
> What is the difference between the ham and the bacon?  How it's brought up to temp - smoking vs steaming?


Thanks, JaxRmrJmr. Yes, the difference is how it is brought up to temperature. The bacon is smoked to 145 F and the ham is put over steam to bring it to 145 F. The difference in texture is quite marked.It makes for a more tender ham sandwich. My missus like to buy those cheap formed "hams" they sell in the supermarket that are not a chunk of cured pork but are chunks of pork force into a ham shape. She likes them because they are low fat. I think they taste like cured cardboard so I started curing cuts of loin into ham. Low fat and tastes like ham. However, being low fat, when they were smoked to 145 F, they were a little drier than I liked. I tried steaming them to temperature and now, no more crappy fake ham and a nice lean piece of real meat that has been cured and smoked.

Disco


SQWIB said:


> Well played sir.
> This is some great info, thanks


Thanks, SQWIB. I have liked your threads so that is quite a compliment.

Disco


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## foamheart

Pictures!!!! Nice looking, I like the transition from cold dust to warm pellets. I had wondered about that. Also nice to know that the difference noticed was marginal. I am a noob..... I have questions.

I normally don't do loin, justa preference, its always been so dry. That aside..... because I can see a future change possibility.

You cut a full loin in 4 pieces and 2 are bacon 2 ham. Is that dependent on where cut, or are they the fatty pieces, or just the luck of the draw?

I never saw it before, but I guess can understand the steam to change the meat to a different texture. Why the plastic wrap? To maintain moisture? I can see how the meat actually looks more like ham afterward. I love learning.

I love the shine on the bacon, is there a maple glaze of something besides smoke on them? They seem to glisten in the picture next to the still wrapped hams. Maybe a apple spritz?

I'll take a break, and sorry for the noob questions, but it just seems you hit a home-run with both brine and rub, bacon and ham. One ball out the ball out the park is great but a grand slam needs to be studied and learned from. I am just starting to learn about bacon, Loins could be the the offset weeks.

I really appreciate you sharing Disco....... and if I am asking too much just send me a tell and don't embarrass me in public..... LOL

ROFL. I have got to learn to type faster.


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## disco

Foamheart said:


> Pictures!!!! Nice looking, I like the transition from cold dust to warm pellets. I had wondered about that. Also nice to know that the difference noticed was marginal. I am a noob..... I have questions.
> 
> I normally don't do loin, justa preference, its always been so dry. That aside..... because I can see a future change possibility.
> 
> You cut a full loin in 4 pieces and 2 are bacon 2 ham. Is that dependent on where cut, or are they the fatty pieces, or just the luck of the draw?
> 
> I never saw it before, but I guess can understand the steam to change the meat to a different texture. Why the plastic wrap? To maintain moisture? I can see how the meat actually looks more like ham afterward. I love learning.
> 
> I love the shine on the bacon, is there a maple glaze of something besides smoke on them? They seem to glisten in the picture next to the still wrapped hams. Maybe a apple spritz?
> 
> I'll take a break, and sorry for the noob questions, but it just seems you hit a home-run with both brine and rub, bacon and ham. One ball out the ball out the park is great but a grand slam needs to be studied and learned from. I am just starting to learn about bacon, Loins could be the the offset weeks.
> 
> I really appreciate you sharing Disco....... and if I am asking too much just send me a tell and don't embarrass me in public..... LOL
> 
> ROFL. I have got to learn to type faster.


Just so you know, I only started smoking last fall. I am a newbie too. Add to that, I am a Canadian so I don't have smoke in my blood like you southerners.

I prefer buckboard bacon and ham made from butt as I like the fat content. On advice from my doctor and beatings from She Who Must Be Obeyed, I am using loins to get less fat content and I am trying to learn how to get the best from them.

I prefer the fatter parts of the loin for ham and the thinner for bacon. That being said, I got some rib cut loin with the fat still attached a couple of months ago. It made a great Irish style bacon.

I used the cellophane to keep the moisture in. The loin sort of cooks in its own juices and gets a ham texture. A word of warning though, don't overcook it, you don't want ham stew. Just take it to 145 F.

There is no glaze on the bacon. I used to just hot smoke my back bacon (sorry, I forget you guys call it Canadian bacon). I saw guys like Bear smoke it for way more hours than I am willing to commit to but get a great red colour and that shine. I have tried to hybrid the process and cold smoke for 3 hours. Smoke at 150 for 3 hours and then hot smoke to an internal temperature of 145 F. I find I get a nice colour and the fat glazes the bacon wonderfully and gets that shine. I do not glaze or spritz. In the future, I do want to try glazing and pepper bacon etc, I just haven't got to it yet.

I thank you for your kind compliments, however baseball metaphors are inappropriate for a Canadian. You should say, "He shoots, he scores!" as a hockey reference.

I have enjoyed your posts too. I guess we will learn together.

Disco


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## diggingdogfarm

Looks good.




~Martin


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## disco

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Looks good.
> 
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> 
> ~Martin


Thanks, Martin


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## chef jimmyj

Great Post and I agree that a Dry Rub Cure is quite good but the convenience of Brining is usually the winning technique...JJ


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## disco

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Great Post and I agree that a Dry Rub Cure is quite good but the convenience of Brining is usually the winning technique...JJ


Thanks, Chef JimmyI noted most people used brine but I am bull headed and had to try it myself.Disco


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## smoking b

Disco said:


> Thanks, Chef Jimmy _*I noted most people used brine but I am bull headed and had to try it myself*_.Disco


That's exactly the reason I did my comparison - I like the way you think


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## disco

Smoking B said:


> That's exactly the reason I did my comparison - I like the way you think


Har! I have never been complimented for my thinking before! People have been scared by it but have never complimented it! Thanks.

Disco


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## bajabarrister

Very concise, clear and well thought out tutorial. As soon as the loins are on sale, I gotta try it! Thanks, Bajabarrister


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## disco

bajabarrister said:


> Very concise, clear and well thought out tutorial. As soon as the loins are on sale, I gotta try it! Thanks, Bajabarrister


Those are very kind words Thanks bajabarrister. I suggest you post whatever you try with Qview. I only started smoking last fall and I have learned so much from the comments to my posts.

Disco


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## tucson joe

When I have made Canadian Bacon I have only brined it for 12Hrs.
I will have to try it with the longer time.
Thanks for the tutorial.
Will try it and see how I like.

Tucson Joe


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## disco

Tucson Joe said:


> When I have made Canadian Bacon I have only brined it for 12Hrs.
> I will have to try it with the longer time.
> Thanks for the tutorial.
> Will try it and see how I like.
> 
> Tucson Joe


Thanks for reading. The bacon cured through in 12 hours?

Disco


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## tucson joe

Disco said:


> Thanks for reading. The bacon cured through in 12 hours?
> 
> Disco



It tasted good and like store bought.
I followed the recipe from the book CHARCUTRIE.

Tucson Joe


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## disco

Thanks! I will have to look it up. The 10 days waiting killed me!

Disco


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## tucson joe

Boy did I make a Mistake!!!!!

It sits in the brine for 48hrs, not 12.

12 hrs in the fridge to get the pellicle.

Sorry for the wrong times.

Tucson Joe


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## disco

Tucson Joe said:


> Boy did I make a Mistake!!!!!
> 
> It sits in the brine for 48hrs, not 12.
> 
> 12 hrs in the fridge to get the pellicle.
> 
> Sorry for the wrong times.
> 
> Tucson Joe


Har, it is still better than 10 days!

Disco


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## shannon127

Excellent post Disco!  I dream of getting Loins with that nice of a fat cap, and you cut it off.  The horror!!!  Just kidding...Great Job


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## disco

Shannon127 said:


> Excellent post Disco!  I dream of getting Loins with that nice of a fat cap, and you cut it off.  The horror!!!  Just kidding...Great Job


Believe me, I would leave the fat on given my choice. Sadly, I have a doctor and She Who Must Be Obeyed telling me that I will trim the fat.

Disco


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## smokinhusker

Disco said:


> Shannon127 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post Disco!  I dream of getting Loins with that nice of a fat cap, and you cut it off.  The horror!!!  Just kidding...Great Job
> 
> 
> 
> Believe me, I would leave the fat on given my choice. Sadly, I have a doctor and She Who Must Be Obeyed telling me that I will trim the fat.
> 
> Disco
Click to expand...

Pork loins were on sale last week @ $1.99 lb - perfect timing to give this a whirl. I bought a 13 lb one and I have 2 pieces dry curing and 2 in your brine. I trimmed the fat from one "Canadian Bacon" dry curing and left all the fat on the rest, cause "He Who Supplies the Funds" likes fat on ham etc. I'll be ready to continue on with your recipes around the 10th or so.


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## disco

SmokinHusker said:


> Pork loins were on sale last week @ $1.99 lb - perfect timing to give this a whirl. I bought a 13 lb one and I have 2 pieces dry curing and 2 in your brine. I trimmed the fat from one "Canadian Bacon" dry curing and left all the fat on the rest, cause "He Who Supplies the Funds" likes fat on ham etc. I'll be ready to continue on with your recipes around the 10th or so.


Great, Alesia! I look forward to your opinion as to the difference. One correction though, I did come up with the rub I like but the brine is a small variation on Pop's brine, not mine.

Sounds like "He Who Supplies the Funds" is getting spoiled just like the missus does for me. Lucky guy!

Disco


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## disco

I forgot to put in the original post that my loin was 2 inches thick at the thickest point. If your loin is thicker, you will have to increase the curing times. One day for every 1/2 inch and add 2 to 3 days, for example:

2 inches thick has four 1/2 inches, 2X4 is eight days, add two or three, cure for 10 to 11 days.
1 1/2 inches thick as three 1/2 inches, 2X3 is six days, add two or three, cure for six or seven days. 
Disco


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## glennmc

You know Disco I have done tons (literally) of Carolina style pulled pork but I may just have to try this...


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## disco

GlennMc said:


> You know Disco I have done tons (literally) of Carolina style pulled pork but I may just have to try this...


Give it a go. I have come to the point I do hams in a brine and bacon in a dry cure.


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## jimmy1957

Disco, I don't quite understand the cure method, You say 1 day for every 1/2 thickness and that 1 1/2 inches thick as three 1/2 inches, 2X3 is six days, But wouldn't it be only 3 days since you only have three 1/2 inches?


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## disco

jimmy1957 said:


> Disco, I don't quite understand the cure method, You say 1 day for every 1/2 thickness and that 1 1/2 inches thick as three 1/2 inches, 2X3 is six days, But wouldn't it be only 3 days since you only have three 1/2 inches?


Thanks for catching that. In the first sentence I should have said 2 days for every half inch. I have corrected that. The following two lines:

2 inches thick has four 1/2 inches, 2X4 is eight days, add two or three, cure for 10 to 11 days.
1 1/2 inches thick as three 1/2 inches, 2X3 is six days, add two or three, cure for 8 or 9 days. 
Is the correct formula.


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## jimmy1957

Thanks, I will have to give that a try.


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## disco

jimmy1957 said:


> Thanks, I will have to give that a try.


I should point out these were among my earlier smokes. I now use dry cure for bacon and brine for hams.


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## moparsbob

Your formula is twice what is shown in Bearcarver's step-by-steps.  For example, in his "New - Canadian Bacon" step-by-step, here is what he posted:

*Calculating curing time:*
The method I use for calculating curing time is simple.
Measure the thickest spot of all of the pieces of meat you plan to cure.
Figure how many "half inches" there are in that measurement.
Add 2 to that number. That will be the minimum time that I would cure that piece of meat.
Then I personally like to add 2 or 3 more days to be extra safe (you can't over-cure, but you can under-cure).
Example:
My thickest piece was 2 1/2 inches. There are 5 "Half inches" in 2 1/2".
So that would be 5 Days plus 2 days = 7 days minimum curing time.
Then I always add 2 or 3 days to that, so I planned on curing this stuff for 10 days.

So his formula is 1 day per half inch of thickness, not 2?????


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## disco

I guess Bear and I disagree on that then. I would use 12 days for 2 1/2 inches.


moparsbob said:


> Your formula is twice what is shown in Bearcarver's step-by-steps.  For example, in his "New - Canadian Bacon" step-by-step, here is what he posted:
> 
> *Calculating curing time:*
> The method I use for calculating curing time is simple.
> Measure the thickest spot of all of the pieces of meat you plan to cure.
> Figure how many "half inches" there are in that measurement.
> Add 2 to that number. That will be the minimum time that I would cure that piece of meat.
> Then I personally like to add 2 or 3 more days to be extra safe (you can't over-cure, but you can under-cure).
> Example:
> My thickest piece was 2 1/2 inches. There are 5 "Half inches" in 2 1/2".
> So that would be 5 Days plus 2 days = 7 days minimum curing time.
> Then I always add 2 or 3 days to that, so I planned on curing this stuff for 10 days.
> 
> So his formula is 1 day per half inch of thickness, not 2?????


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## disco

moparsbob said:


> Your formula is twice what is shown in Bearcarver's step-by-steps.  For example, in his "New - Canadian Bacon" step-by-step, here is what he posted:
> 
> *Calculating curing time:*
> The method I use for calculating curing time is simple.
> Measure the thickest spot of all of the pieces of meat you plan to cure.
> Figure how many "half inches" there are in that measurement.
> Add 2 to that number. That will be the minimum time that I would cure that piece of meat.
> Then I personally like to add 2 or 3 more days to be extra safe (you can't over-cure, but you can under-cure).
> Example:
> My thickest piece was 2 1/2 inches. There are 5 "Half inches" in 2 1/2".
> So that would be 5 Days plus 2 days = 7 days minimum curing time.
> Then I always add 2 or 3 days to that, so I planned on curing this stuff for 10 days.
> 
> So his formula is 1 day per half inch of thickness, not 2?????


By the way, the difference between 10 days and 12 days in curing is minimal. Bear refers to this as a minimum. I prefer to leave it in a couple of days longer. Both are fine.


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## m00se

There are folks out there who swear that the longer the meat stays in the cure, the better is the flavor. A typical pork belly dry cured for 30+ days is not unheard of, and some people swear by it, FOLLOWED by an additional 30+ days rinsed and resting out of the cure. I usually don't rest my bacon for that additional 30+ days but I have and do allow them to dry cure for 30+ days. They taste phenomenal.


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## atomicsmoke

If you rest it for 30 days it will dry out.


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## m00se

atomicsmoke said:


> If you rest it for 30 days it will dry out.


It's wrapped at that point. No way for air to get to it (hopefully).


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## atomicsmoke

m00se said:


> It's wrapped at that point. No way for air to get to it (hopefully).


Aha...


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## disco

m00se said:


> There are folks out there who swear that the longer the meat stays in the cure, the better is the flavor. A typical pork belly dry cured for 30+ days is not unheard of, and some people swear by it, FOLLOWED by an additional 30+ days rinsed and resting out of the cure. I usually don't rest my bacon for that additional 30+ days but I have and do allow them to dry cure for 30+ days. They taste phenomenal.





atomicsmoke said:


> If you rest it for 30 days it will dry out.





m00se said:


> It's wrapped at that point. No way for air to get to it (hopefully).





atomicsmoke said:


> Aha...


I have let it go for up to 14 days (things cup up) but that sounds like a major cure!


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## dlking59

I mostly like  the dry cure. years ago my ex used a salt brine for salmon which turned out real good. I think she only used salt in the brine.


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## scooterjam

Loved the play by play!!   Awesome job and looks tasty!!!


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## disco

dlking59 said:


> I mostly like  the dry cure. years ago my ex used a salt brine for salmon which turned out real good. I think she only used salt in the brine.


My missus does a salmon brine to die for!


Scooterjam said:


> Loved the play by play!!   Awesome job and looks tasty!!!


Thanks. It is a little embarressing because this was one of my early posts. I actually do things a little differently now.


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## dlking59

Disco said:


> My missus does a salmon brine to die for!
> 
> Thanks. It is a little embarressing because this was one of my early posts. I actually do things a little differently now.


would you mind sharing your missus salmon brine, thanks


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## zzrguy

Those hams looked luvly I got 30lb at BJs a month ago still frozen(I ask if they have any in back still frozen not referee it) I like the nice simple brine. Thanks


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## disco

dlking59 said:


> would you mind sharing your missus salmon brine, thanks


Here is a post where we made the recipe:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/150684/peppered-salmon-for-canadian-thanksgiving


zzrguy said:


> Those hams looked luvly I got 30lb at BJs a month ago still frozen(I ask if they have any in back still frozen not referee it) I like the nice simple brine. Thanks


It is actually Pop's Brine and I suggest you read his post before using it. He is way more knowledgeable than me.

Here is the link:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine


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## zzrguy

Thanks for the link.


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## smokeymose

Very nice, Disco! The only thing I have dry cured is loin with Morton TQ. Morton calls it "Canadian Bacon"
I know better, but SWMBO loves it and says "Leave it alone and make more!" .
I will admit I'm a sucker for brine because it's so simple. A 2 gallon bucket in the back of the fridge and out of sight out of mind for a couple of weeks.
Thanks for doing a comparison for us!
Points for the idea and lots of pics!

Dan


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## dlking59

Disco said:


> Here is a post where we made the recipe:
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/150684/peppered-salmon-for-canadian-thanksgiving
> 
> It is actually Pop's Brine and I suggest you read his post before using it. He is way more knowledgeable than me.
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine


Thanks for the link. I have some salmon in the freezer I'm wanting to smoke. I think I'll try the brine and see how it comes out.


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## dlking59

Every Friday Weis has "fantastic Friday" from 9am to 9pm. Two weeks ago they had the whole boneless loin for $1.68 per pound. I should of got one or two because I'm wanting to try some Canadian Bacon.


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## disco

dlking59 said:


> Thanks for the link. I have some salmon in the freezer I'm wanting to smoke. I think I'll try the brine and see how it comes out.


It is well tested on the site.


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## disco

dlking59 said:


> would you mind sharing your missus salmon brine, thanks


By the way, cmanya is an expert on salmon. Check out his posts and message him if you have any questions.


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## dlking59

Disco said:


> By the way, cmanya is an expert on salmon. Check out his posts and message him if you have any questions.


Thanks Disco


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## wade

m00se said:


> There are folks out there who swear that the longer the meat stays in the cure, the better is the flavor. A typical pork belly dry cured for 30+ days is not unheard of, and some people swear by it, FOLLOWED by an additional 30+ days rinsed and resting out of the cure. I usually don't rest my bacon for that additional 30+ days but I have and do allow them to dry cure for 30+ days. They taste phenomenal.


The FSIS recommendation for producing and storing raw bacon are:

"Dry-cured" bacon has a premeasured amount of cure mixture applied or rubbed onto the bacon belly surfaces, completely covering them. Additional cure may be rubbed in over a number of days, but the amount of added sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 parts per million (ppm). After the curing phase, the bacon may be left to hang for up to 2 weeks in order for the moisture to be drawn out. Less time is needed if it is going to be smoked. Because of the lengthy processing time and labor required, dry-cured bacon is more expensive than the more mass-produced, pumped bacon.

If sliced then dry cured bacon can be stored for up to 4 weeks at 40 F or below. If slab then it can be stored for 4-6 weeks at 40 F or below.

"Immersion-cured" bacon is placed in a brine solution containing salt, nitrite, and flavoring material or in a container with salt, nitrite, and flavoring material for 2 to 3 days. Sugar, honey, or maple syrup may be added to the brine. The meat must then be left to hang until it is cured.

For non dry cured bacon the recommended storage time is only 7 days without freezing as it has a higher final water activity (aw) than when dry cured.

Even for slab dry cured bacon the 60+ days mentioned above is right at the top end of the FSIS storage recommendation limits.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal...at-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index


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## daveomak

Wade, evening.....   Pumped or Immersion cured bacon has a different standard for ingoing nitrite you forgot to mention...  Probably because you are as old as I am....  It happens to all of us....   Taken from your link....

*How much nitrite can be used in curing bacon?*
The USDA is responsible for monitoring the proper use of nitrite by meat processors. While sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 ppm going into dry-cured bacon, sodium nitrite cannot exceed 120 ppm for both pumped and immersion-cured bacon.

Dave


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## wade

DaveOmak said:


> Wade, evening.....   Pumped or Immersion cured bacon has a different standard for ingoing nitrite you forgot to mention...  Probably because you are as old as I am....  It happens to all of us....   Taken from your link....
> 
> *How much nitrite can be used in curing bacon?*
> The USDA is responsible for monitoring the proper use of nitrite by meat processors. While sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 ppm going into dry-cured bacon, sodium nitrite cannot exceed 120 ppm for both pumped and immersion-cured bacon.
> 
> Dave


Thanks Dave - yes you are correct about the Nitrite differences. In this post I was trying to highlight the differences in the length of time of production and the different recommended storage times between dry cured and non dry cured bacon. So that I didn't have to cut and paste too much of it, it was easier to post the link so that others could read it at leisure.

I was really researching the safety aspects of the 60+ days that were mentioned by m00se as it seemed to be excessive - however to my surprise it does appear that for dry cured slab bacon it is safe. The document is actually quite vague about the precise curing time required for immersion cured bacon but I was surprised that there was such a large difference between the safe storage times of dry cured and non dry cured bacon.

I know you are aware of this Dave but just as background information for others on the apparent differences in Nitrite levels between the curing methods that are commonly used br members here. Although the maximum permitted ingoing Nitrite levels for immersion and dry cure bacon are both measured in ppm, in practice this mean quite different things when it comes to the amount of Nitrite that is being used.

When immersion curing the amount of Nitrite salts that are added to the brine is dependent on both the volume of the brine used as well as the size of the piece of meat being cured. Once you have produced a large volume of brine at up to 120 ppm Nitrite then if you allow the meat to be immersed in it until it reaches equilibrium you know pretty much the resulting levels of Nitrite that are likely to get. In terms of overall amount of cure being used, more of physical curing salts are used in the immersion brine than for the dry cure - even though the final ppm in the cure appears to be lower.

With dry cure bacon you only add a finite amount of curing salts directly onto the surface of the meat and that is calculated only on the size of the piece of meat itself. Although you are calculating for a theoretical maximum of 200 ppm, it is highly unlikely that levels approaching this will end up in the final bacon. Some of the cure will be lost in the physical process of applying it to the meat surface and more will be lost in the natural brine that is formed around the meat by the salts. If you only plastic wrap the meat during the curing time then there will be some loss of this brine/cure due to leakage, however if you vac pack it most of the brine will remain in contact with the meat and more of the Nitrite will be available to be absorbed.  Without having it lab tested, with dry cure bacon it is almost impossible to know with certainty how much Nitrite has been taken up - only that the final concentration will be somewhat less than the initially calculated ppm.


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## smokin monkey

That 60 days was a shock to me. I panic if it's been sat in the fridge for 5-7 days. Can relax now and not rush around!!!


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## daveomak

When immersion curing, weigh the meat and the water, salt and sugar etc...   Add the appropriate amount of nitrite to bring the "brining system" to 120 Pm...   The brine at this point may be 240, 300 Ppm or higher in nitrite...  after equilibrium, between the brine and meat, the meat will be 120 Ppm nitrite.....   That's how an equilibrium brine system works...


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## wade

DaveOmak said:


> When immersion curing, weigh the meat and the water, salt and sugar etc...   Add the appropriate amount of nitrite to bring the "brining system" to 120 Pm...   The brine at this point may be 240, 300 Ppm or higher in nitrite...  after equilibrium, between the brine and meat, the meat will be 120 Ppm nitrite.....   That's how an equilibrium brine system works...





Wade said:


> When immersion curing the amount of Nitrite salts that are added to the brine is dependent *on both the volume of the brine used as well as the size of the piece of meat being cured*.


That was what I said Dave - just not as eloquently as you. I was not trying to give detailed instructions on how to calculate cure concentrations in immersion curing. Simply the conceptual differences.


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## disco

Feeling a little hijacked guys.


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## m00se

"If sliced then dry cured bacon can be stored for up to 4 weeks at 40 F or below. If slab then it can be stored for 4-6 weeks at 40 F or below."`

If sliced.....


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## smokeymose

Disco said:


> Feeling a little hijacked guys.


A little too much science for me, Disco. I like brining, to answer your original question....
Dan


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## disco

SmokeyMose said:


> A little too much science for me, Disco. I like brining, to answer your original question....
> Dan


Har! I have gone to brining hams and pastrami and dry curing bacon and Montreal smoked meat. There is a slight different in texture.

Disco


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## gearjammer

Hey Disco, I'm usually late but this is getting

crazy even for me.

About three years late this time.

But now I've seen it, and learned a lot from this thread.

Points to you, for as always a great tutorial.

I'm glad this got bumped up.

   Ed


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## disco

Gearjammer said:


> Hey Disco, I'm usually late but this is getting
> 
> crazy even for me.
> 
> About three years late this time.
> 
> But now I've seen it, and learned a lot from this thread.
> 
> Points to you, for as always a great tutorial.
> 
> I'm glad this got bumped up.
> 
> Ed


Thanks, Ed. I appreciate that. It is kind of weird to have one of your early posts bumped up. I do things a little differently now but see the roots of what I learned from Bear and Pops!


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## moose410

What is Prague powder ?


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## disco

moose410 said:


> What is Prague powder ?


It is another name for Instacure, Pink salt, etc.


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## wade

Disco said:


> It is another name for Instacure, Pink salt, etc.


Yes - And not to be mistaken with Tender Quick which is also used by some for curing.


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## bocaboy

I just came across this post and wanted to add my 2¢. I am a big proponent of dry brining. I do it with fish (salmon or Chilean Sea Bass), ribs and chuck roasts. Chicken is the only protein where I use a wet brine. I've never tried a pork loin, but your method sure looks interesting! I have a Smokin' It electric smoker as well as a Big Green Egg. I've come to prefer cooking in the SI. The results are very predictable and consistent and the flavor is on a par with the best BBQ that I've tasted.

Thanks for this excellent comparison and write-up.


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## disco

bocaboy said:


> I just came across this post and wanted to add my 2¢. I am a big proponent of dry brining. I do it with fish (salmon or Chilean Sea Bass), ribs and chuck roasts. Chicken is the only protein where I use a wet brine. I've never tried a pork loin, but your method sure looks interesting! I have a Smokin' It electric smoker as well as a Big Green Egg. I've come to prefer cooking in the SI. The results are very predictable and consistent and the flavor is on a par with the best BBQ that I've tasted.
> 
> Thanks for this excellent comparison and write-up.


I posted this years ago and have come closer to your take on curing. I use a dry cure on bacon whether shoulder, loin or belly and Montreal smoked meat. I use a wet cure on pastrami, corned beef and hams.


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## Bearcarver

Disco said:


> I posted this years ago and have come closer to your take on curing. I use a dry cure on bacon whether shoulder, loin or belly and Montreal smoked meat. I use a wet cure on pastrami, corned beef and hams.


Me Too!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Bear


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