# Good brisket,but no smoke ring ??



## t-bone tim (May 28, 2007)

Good day all...did a 9# brisket today in my MES...used a combo of oak and hickory for wood,rubbed down with Meowey's rub last night,slathered with yellow mustard and more rub this a.m. and let it sit about an hour.
I preheated the smoker to 130 then put brisket in , upped the temp to 235 and began the smoke,adding only a few chips 4 - 5 every 1/2 hour or so and a spritz of apple juice and rum every hour or so.
1 1/2 hours in the brisket was at 108,so I cut the temp back to 230....4 hrs in were at 163.....8 hrs were at 170, I pulled and foiled and upped the temp to 245....11 hrs we hit 200,I towel and cooler,2 hrs....beautiful,juicy,tasty,smelled heavenly....BUT....no smoke ring ?? anything else I can do to improve this ?? 
Here are a couple pics


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## triple b (May 28, 2007)

Seems strange there was no smoke ring.
But,it looks good and juicy!
Bet it tasted pretty good too!


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## msmith (May 28, 2007)

What kind of smoker are you using . use splits and forget the chips.


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## t-bone tim (May 28, 2007)

Marvin , I used my masterbuilt electric....designed for chips I believe ,but maybe I  could get away with some very small splits ? will have to try that nextime .


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## msmith (May 28, 2007)

Man I dont anything about using electric smoking I'm a wood burner myself,. I wish I knew what to tell you but I'm totally lost.


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## goat (May 28, 2007)

I am a wood burner also.  Your brisket looks wonderful, but I actually wonder how much smoke was produced by your chips.  One thing I have learned is that sometimes you get a beautiful ring and sometimes it just does not happen.  I bet that the taste was just fine, ring or not.


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## domn8_ion (May 28, 2007)

I'm thinking maybe not enough smoke???? But the important thing, was it good? Unless you want to turn it in to a judge, the smoke ring means nothing as long as it tasted good.


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## hhersh (May 28, 2007)

Hey t-bone....I use an electric too. I think if you started to use water soaked chunks instead of chips, you would get a good smoke ring. G
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





 OOD LUCK ON THE NEXT ONE !


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## lobo (May 28, 2007)

I have the MES as well and have yet to get a smoke ring on anything I have smoked. Taste and moistness have always been great, just no smoke ring even though I add chips through out the smoke to keep generating the smoke. The brisket I complete last night (after 14 hours to reach the 185 degree temp) was completely black on the outside with no smoke ( I don't foil at anytime during the smoke). Tasted wonderful though. I think it could be that the MES use of water and the chips kind of sparingly thus no ring. 
I have always preheated to 235 degrees and left it there on all my smokes, monitoring the temp of the meat with an electronic probe. 

I see you are in New Brunswick? Passed through there a couple of times while my Daughter was going to the Vet School on PEI. Nice folks and scenery you all have up that way!! Different from Texas, that's for sure.


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## flash (May 28, 2007)

I believe the chips to be the problem also. Chunks only. I had a old Pitmaster tell me that meat does not accept much smoke after internal temps reach 145*. Smoke accordingly.


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## smokin for life (May 28, 2007)

I found that chips are ok for grilling, but for smoking I just use chunks. It seems like the chips burn up too quick. But that's just my opinion.


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## ma?tley ca 1/4 e (May 29, 2007)

Don't feel bad, I have a GOSM and very rarely get a decent smoke ring. You can taste the smoke, just no smoke ring. I want to go to wood, but the GOSM makes it so easy.


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## cheech (May 29, 2007)

I seem to recall Jim Minion suggesting useing a charcoal briquet mixed in with your wood chips. 

I have found that my electric units just has a hard time producing a smoke ring.


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## stillcajun (May 29, 2007)

Cheech,

I read/heard the same thing. Apparently adding 1-2 pieces of lump charcoal or brisquets w/ wood chunks or chips will give the desired effect of a smoke ring.

Supposedly its the chemical reaction between the wood and charcoal that causes it.


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## bigal (May 30, 2007)

I don't think its the chips.  I used to use them in my cheap water smoker w/charcoal and I could get a nice smoke ring.  I'd also go through a small bag of them.  I soaked/didn't soak, didn't matter.

Try adding more chips, soak some/don't soak some.  I've also read that it doesn't matter too much.  

I also wouldn't worry too much.  You have a very nice look'n brisket, smoke ring or not.  

Good luck, think of it this way..........you gotta smoke another one tomorrow to do some "tests".  The glass is half full, man.


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## billyq (May 30, 2007)

I also heard that a charcoal brickette or two in the hopper will produce a smoke ring.  Some people on the cookshack site do it.  I don't know how safe it would be though, so try it at your own risk.  If it looks good, tastes good and smells good, why improve?  Oh yeah, were all here in the pursuit of perfection.


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## squeezy (May 30, 2007)

I use chunks of wood in a tin can lying on a propane burner in my R2D2 and always get a smoke ring ... no problem!


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## reflect (May 30, 2007)

have a GOSM. I asked the same thing a few weeks back. All meat comes out with a great smoky flavor but no ring.

Cheech nailed it on the head. It is the lack of charcoal. My last smoke I tried what was suggested. I threw two unlit lump charcoal pieces on top of the wood. It didn't give it a great smoke ring but it was a very noticeable improvement. I did the same with every reload until the meat hit 140 being where the formation of the ring stops.

Next smoke I will play with how many lumps per reload.

Take care,

Brian


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## shellbellc (May 30, 2007)

Funny, I did a brisket this weekend in the electric smoker and didn't get a smoke ring.  When I took the thing out of the foil you could smell the smoke, you could taste the smoke, just no ring.  I'm going to try the charcoal next time.  The brisket was absolutely delicious and juicy though!


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## squeezy (May 30, 2007)

I have to disagree ... sorry! 

I have never used charcoal to smoke anything and if you review my posts you will see a smoke ring in everything ... so the mystery lives on


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## deejaydebi (May 30, 2007)

For some reason electric smokers don't convert the wood to charcoal and produce as much NO2 as propane. NO2 is what causes the rings. If it tastes good don't worry about it!

The smoke rings is caused by nitric acid building up in the surface of meat, absorbed from the surface. This nitric acid is formed when nitrogen dioxide from wood combustion in smoke mixes with water in the meat. Basically it is a chemical reaction between the smoke and the meat. 


Some people cheat, coating meat with Morton's Tender Quick, will load up the surface of the meat with nitrogen dioxide and give you a great smoke ring. Because of the prevalence of this kind of cheating, smoke rings are no longer taken into consideration in barbecue competitions.


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## zapper (May 31, 2007)

It could have been one of several things or nothing at all, who knows? I use a Brinkman Electric bullit and almost always get great rings. But I also really throw the wood to it. I have use chips and chunks, soaked and dried, foiled and right on top of the element straight from the bag with no help at all. 

What I think that I may have learned. 

If you use chips they go faster than chunks
I don't think that soaking actually makes the wood smoke more or last longer. I think it just postpones the time that the wood starts to smoke. 
I don't think that foil does anything except make it eaiser to clean.


At the start of a smoke, Toss in some small chips to get you rolling at the same time that you toss on the larger chunks, the time to add more wood is before it quits smoking not afterwards, the trouble is that it really only smokes best just before it goes out! Go figure!


To be honest, smoke rings are great for the pictures, but the pics in the original post look just great with out a ring!


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## squeezy (May 31, 2007)

I have never used Morton's Tender Quick so I am flying blind. I suspect most tenderizer/preservative products are salt based (sodium) so perhaps the salt in most rubs etc. is enough to cause or enhance the formation of the smoke ring. This brings me too the conclusion that to BBQ it really doesn't matter what the heat source is ... wood smoke is all that is required to produce the ring.
Did I lose anyone?


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## reflect (May 31, 2007)

I relate to what you are saying. I asked this same question a month ago and this is what I was told by Jim Minion and others...

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...ead.php?t=3826

Debbie nailed the technical explanation to a tee.

Paul I do stand by my comment about last weekends smoke. I reviewed your posts and I love the rings I see on your product. I also saw that you run three propane based smokers, no GOSM being apples to apples but basically the same. It made a very noticeable difference to me. The only change was adding a few lumps of charcoal for me. I am not saying it is the sole solution though by any means. I normally go for the thin blue smoke. I ditched the GOSMs wood box and use a baking pan. Normally on butts I keep the temps around 200 degrees until the meat hits 140. Then I bump it to 225. I normally put a rub on it. I smoke it with the fat cap up. I have tried different shelve levels thinking that might make a difference but it didn't. I have tried smoking with a solo piece of meat and with a fully loaded smoker. I just never seem to get the ring I got with an offset smoker. If you can see anything I am not doing with or missing above please let me know (as you seem to have it down to a tee from the pictures).

I always want to improve and this boards always helps me reach the "next" level. I love this place :).

Take care,

Brian



Take care,

Brian


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## squeezy (May 31, 2007)

I do think it has a lot to do with the rub ... I read a post recently, where the guy said that he doesn't put it on ribs the night before because it 'comes out to hammy' ... I did 5 racks of BBs recently with rub applied night before ... had a deep ring. I'm thinking the salt/sugar mixture in the rub is starting to brine the meat ... 'cause I thought mine was a bit more hammy (not neccessarily a bad thing) 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	




What rub recipe do you use?
I don't see anything wrong with your method.


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## gypsyseagod (May 31, 2007)

i seem to get a decent smoke ring on most things- even when cooking w/ wood i throw a few damp mesquite infused briquetts on the fire on occassion(when i stop seeing the thin blue). even last nights ribeyes had a ring(was too hungry to get pics) but i'll repost this pic- if it looks like this on the outside,the inside will be good too.  http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w...illpork005.jpg


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## reflect (Jun 1, 2007)

Mine :).

I won't give quantity but here are the ingredients...

Paprika
Garlic Powder
Freshly Ground Black Pepper
Brown Sugar (Dry out first)
Onion Powder
Dried Oregano
Dry Mustard
Cayenne
Sea Salt
Chipotle Powder
Ground White Pepper

This is the same rub I used when I had my offset.

Take care,

Brian


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