# Dead Smoker



## BGKYSmoker (Nov 5, 2017)

I mixed up 5lbs of Owens BBQ Honey BBQ stick mix, stuffed and went out to heat up the smoker and OUCH.

No power.

I had a new digital controller and temp probe which i installed real quick.














OUCH
Still nothing. So i figure its the switch or element which i have neither right now.

SO

I have to improvise which i hate doing like this.
Small oven which goes low to 150*
YUK


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## noboundaries (Nov 5, 2017)

That sux, but nice recovery!  Sure looks good!


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 5, 2017)

Ok not liking these this way.
Time to feed the critters at the land fill.


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## JckDanls 07 (Nov 5, 2017)

well..  c'mon over and get the Mini Smokehouse... just fired it up today for the first time and running a batch of smoke through it to season it up...  I ended up having to use a 1500 watt and an 800 watt element together to get it up to 180.. what size element does yours have ??


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## tropics (Nov 5, 2017)

Rick sorry to hear that you had some good looking sausages coming out of it
Richie


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 5, 2017)

1000w element

Gotta call TSM tomorrow and get the 2 parts needed.

Not their fault. My smoker is pretty much open to the elements even though i do cover after it cools off.


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 7, 2017)

TSM Finally got me the part # on the on/off switch.
I ordered 2 elements and 2 switches. Up and smoking soon.


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## tropics (Nov 7, 2017)

nepas said:


> TSM Finally got me the part # on the on/off switch.
> I ordered 2 elements and 2 switches. Up and smoking soon.



I think ya should come back up here JMHO LOL
Richie


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## browneyesvictim (Nov 7, 2017)

Bummer. Was it the switch or the element?


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 7, 2017)

I replaced the digital control, temp probe so that left the element or switch, the fuse is still intact and all the connections were tight.. I'm not great at electrical so it was easier to just get all new stuff.

@richie.
I dont own a jacket or pants anymore. BRRRRR To cold.
:eek:


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## dward51 (Nov 7, 2017)

Rick, 

You need a digital meter so you can trouble shoot stuff like that quickly!  Absent that, with no power to anything, I would have suspected fuse (which you said was good) or the master power switch.  Sounds like you have a good handle on it though....

Meter would have saved you some money by targeting the part that was faulty.   If you are not comfortable with reading line voltage (ie, live AC), you could accomplish most of the testing in continuity mode on the meter (with the smoker totally unplugged).


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## GaryHibbert (Nov 7, 2017)

Real bad luck Rick.  Sure hope you got 'er fixed.
Gary


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 8, 2017)

Got the parts ordered yesterday from TSM.
Got 2 elements and 2 power switches coming.

YAY
Almost back in business


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 8, 2017)

dward51 said:


> Rick,
> 
> You need a digital meter so you can trouble shoot stuff like that quickly!  Absent that, with no power to anything, I would have suspected fuse (which you said was good) or the master power switch.  Sounds like you have a good handle on it though....
> 
> Meter would have saved you some money by targeting the part that was faulty.   If you are not comfortable with reading line voltage (ie, live AC), you could accomplish most of the testing in continuity mode on the meter (with the smoker totally unplugged).



Thanks dw.

Im not very good at electrical stuff so its easier to just replace.


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## troutman (Nov 8, 2017)

Nice looking sausages regardless.  Cooker problems are a bummer......


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## tallbm (Nov 9, 2017)

That sucks.  I also would recommend getting a Multimeter.  The simplest function on the device is just checking for Continuity.  This means that if you tough a wire/connector at one point and also touch where it is suppose to be feeding power that the multimeter will beep at you.  This signals that there is no break in continuity and electricity can flow from point A to point B.

This is helpful to start narrowing down where the broken component may be so you can find, working, and/or replace only the problematic pieces :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 9, 2017)

tallbm said:


> That sucks.  I also would recommend getting a Multimeter.  The simplest function on the device is just checking for Continuity.  This means that if you tough a wire/connector at one point and also touch where it is suppose to be feeding power that the multimeter will beep at you.  This signals that there is no break in continuity and electricity can flow from point A to point B.
> 
> This is helpful to start narrowing down where the broken component may be so you can find, working, and/or replace only the problematic pieces :)



A multimeter is above my pay grade  o_O


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## tallbm (Nov 9, 2017)

nepas said:


> A multimeter is above my pay grade  o_O



:eek:
Well if it ever get's bad and you need one or risk being electrocuted just speak up and I'm sure Santa can provide one :D


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 10, 2017)

Well

Right elements, wrong switches. SOB


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 11, 2017)

Original switch on the right. The one on left they say is the same and will work?

REALLY


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## daveomak (Nov 11, 2017)

Take a look to see if there is an amperage rating on the switches..  They may have upgraded to a switch that can handle the "nepas"...


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## tallbm (Nov 11, 2017)

Well switches are generally pretty simple.  A $7-10 multimeter will help you figure out the flow on that switch with the connectors... if the switch did not come with a diagram. 
All that would be left is to ensure the switch can handle the Amps for continuous flow and a little extra for slop. :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 12, 2017)

This is what i can read on the new switch.
Gaynor
20a 125 vac
10a 250 vac
3/4 hp

Red toggle (original switch)

Cherry WR Series
16a 125 vac 1/4 hp
16a 250 vac 1/4 hp

Down lower on the toggle.
250 vac  3/4 hp

This is the paper that came with the new switch.
Sorry i'm not very electronic savvy.


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## daveomak (Nov 12, 2017)

New toggle, more amperage... mo betta..  won't burn up.... I think their original switch was marginal...
Now that you have spare parts....  it will never fail again... LOL...


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## JckDanls 07 (Nov 12, 2017)

Rick, I have some of the red rocker switches...  let me find them and see what the rating is

ok.. rating is..  16A -250v ...  20a - 125v  ... size seems to be 7/8" x 1" ...  

can bring to the gathering if you would rather use original looking switch ...


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 12, 2017)

jckdanls 07 said:


> Rick, I have some of the red rocker switches...  let me find them and see what the rating is
> 
> ok.. rating is..  16A -250v ...  20a - 125v  ... size seems to be 7/8" x 1" ...
> 
> can bring to the gathering if you would rather use original looking switch ...



I got the no sausage jitters and gotta do it now. I just dont know where to plug in the terminals to the right poles?
Guess i need to go get one them multimeter thingys.

Dave
Yeah its more solid the new toggle.


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## tallbm (Nov 12, 2017)

Here's a simple explanation about your switch and your situation.

All a switch like this does is open and close (On/Off) the electrical circuit.  
When Open no electricity will flow past the switch into the smoker.  When Closed the switch connects the circuit together so electricity can flow to the device.  
Think of it like a window.  Window Open air blows into the home.  Window closed, air does not blow into the home.

Your switch is a Double Pole, Single Throw (DPST). 

Single Throw = flip it/throw it and it opens or closes the circuit.  Very simple.
Double Pole = you can connect TWO sets of electrical circuit to the switch to open/close.  That is why there are 4 prongs.  Two for incoming electricity and two for the switch to connect for outgoing electricity when the switch is fliped on or closed.  A good example of this is in some restrooms when you flip the light on the exhaust vent also comes on.

What is a little confusing is that they sent you a DPST switch and then used that little wired connection on one side to basically shut down that one side.  With that wire in place you will only be using the one side of the switch.
They should have probably just sent you a 2 pronged switch (Single Pole, Single Throw [SPST]) hahaha
That's like buying a 4 door car but welding the back doors shut to make it a 2 door car :D

Here is a simplistic explanation of how to hook this switch up, you may have more stuff/components inovolved but conceptually this is all you would be doing :)

To hook this switch up, you would plug the HOT wire coming from the plug into one prong of the switch.
Then you take the HOT wire that comes from your heating element into the other prong of the switch.
Your smoker would now be wired like this.
Electricity would come from the wall -> through the plug to the switch.
When the switch is ON/Closed the electricity would then flow through the switch to the smoker heating element.
When the switch is OFF/Open the electricity would flow to the switch and stop being unable to get to the heating element.

I don't believe it matters which prong is IN vs OUT since your switch doesn't seem to have On/Off labels.
If your switch had On/Off labels on the front then you could wire it backwards.  If wired backwards you simply swap the wires to the opposite prongs.  Very simple :)

A Multimeter is still extremely helpful.  The continuity feature would let you know if your switch is good/bad before you even hook it up to wires.  The continuity feature would also let you know if you have any breaks in the circuit along the way.  Testing from Plug Prong to switch should work.  Turn switch on and you can check continuity from Plug prong to the output side of the switch, and keep working along until you know you have continuity all the way through and nothing is broken along the way :)  

Let me know if all of this makes some sense :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 12, 2017)

I have 2 wire from the heating element. One goes to the switch the other goes to the digital control. Both are high heat braided.


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## old sarge (Nov 12, 2017)

Life and smoking are always a challenge.


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 12, 2017)

I'm sorry guys. Know you are trying to help. I just cant grasp this stuff.


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## old sarge (Nov 12, 2017)

You should be able to find what you need at Ace Hardware or True Value, whichever is in your neck of the woods.   Always easier when you get an identical sized look alike right down to the size and the connectors.   Just lame the old switch connectors with their appropriate wire color then take the switch to the hardware store.  Actually I am surprised The usage Maker failed to send the proper switch.


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## tallbm (Nov 12, 2017)

Hey Nepas please clarify the following and I think I can help you out :)

First off, please confirm that the wires coming out of the left hand side of the top left pic are coming from the Plug that goes to the wall outlet.

If that is the case then I think I have the wires labeled correctly in the top left pic so we can reference them.  HOT (1), Neutral (2), Ground (3).  So if I say wire #1 that would be the HOT wire from the plug, or if I say wire #2 that is the Neutral wire from the plug, and so on.  The numbers help us talk in clear specifics when identifying wires :)

In the top RIGHT pictures, please confirm that the HOT ??? wire is actually wire #3.  I'm assuming the flash made the color change. 
Also please confirm that the Neutral ??? wire is wire #2.

Finally, if you can, tell me where wires #4,5, and 6 go to From the switch.
If you cannot exactly figure it out don't worry this is just more contextual information that can help us along the way.

In short, if you confirm wires #1-3 I think we can pop in your new switch and wire it right up to mimic the old switch and have no issues :)








ddhd


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 12, 2017)

Yes you are right 1,2 & 3 are from the power cord.
The hot and neutral are on the bottom switch poles 1&2
6 is one of the lines from the element
5 goes to the top of the digital controller.






#5 white slot on controller
#4 with the blue crimp 
Next black is a line from the element

#5 & 6 are both connected to the one post on the switch

closest white/red/white are from the temp probe


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## tallbm (Nov 12, 2017)

Nepas I think this will do it for you.  See the new labels and the new pic of your switch at the bottom.

Simply connect to your switch the way I have it labeled.  That should be a straight replacement to the old switch and all the wires should be going to the correct places.  The only unknown is if the switch in the last pic below is in the ON or OFF position hahaha.  This will only matter if you are "bothered" by the direction you have to flip the switch for ON vs OFF.  If so you can either rotate the switch or swap the connectors.

****WORD TO THE WISE*****  It is EXTREMELY important that your connectors are snug with little to no wiggle.  Wiggle or looseness can lead to resistance.  Resistance leads to heating up.  Heating up leads to burning out or melting out parts of your switch or connectors.  Snug and tight fits are the key.  If you find any wiggle to the connectors on the tabs AFTER you get things working, feel free to take some needle nose plyers and to safely squeeze/crimp those connectors tightly to the tabs WITHOUT damaging the tabs or switch.  My hope is they just fit snug to begin with.

Let me know if this all helps and if you have any questions :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 13, 2017)

tallbm said:


> Nepas I think this will do it for you.  See the new labels and the new pic of your switch at the bottom.
> 
> Simply connect to your switch the way I have it labeled.  That should be a straight replacement to the old switch and all the wires should be going to the correct places.  The only unknown is if the switch in the last pic below is in the ON or OFF position hahaha.  This will only matter if you are "bothered" by the direction you have to flip the switch for ON vs OFF.  If so you can either rotate the switch or swap the connectors.
> 
> ...



Thank you Thank you

I'm going to go get a multimeter and try to get this all wired today. Its supposed to rain all day here. I keep my smoker covered and under the awning, i have to deal with the elements being a full time RVr.


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## tallbm (Nov 13, 2017)

No problem.  Best of luck with it and as always post back if you have any questions :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 13, 2017)

tallbm said:


> No problem.  Best of luck with it and as always post back if you have any questions :)


Rain all day.
I got an email from TSM this morning saying sorry for the mistake on the switches, they are sending 2 originals out today.


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## tallbm (Nov 14, 2017)

That rain sucks.  Either way you will be ok. The toggle switch is actually a more heavy duty switch.  I burned up 3 plastic rocker switches in my rewire job, they were just cheap chinese crap.  I got fed up and bought a 100Amp Marine Boat (like yacht) breaker and no more issues burning up the switch :)

Keep us posted on the progress :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 17, 2017)

Yay

Power and smoking.

Stix for sunday.


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## tallbm (Nov 17, 2017)

Wow you should get that Honda checked out, that is a lot of smoke coming form under the hood.... just kidding :P

Man that is awesome that you are back up and running.  So after all of those labeled images and explanations was the fix as simple as it seemed? :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 17, 2017)

tallbm said:


> Wow you should get that Honda checked out, that is a lot of smoke coming form under the hood.... just kidding :p
> 
> Man that is awesome that you are back up and running.  So after all of those labeled images and explanations was the fix as simple as it seemed? :)




Yes

Thank you again. I have this post saved just in case i have this prob again.


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## dward51 (Nov 18, 2017)

My first thought is the toggles are not going to fit in the same cutout as the rocker switch, but I see they shipped the wrong ones and you are back up!!!!!  Good way to cure the jitters.....

I'm mixing up a 8lb batch of sticks today also.


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your help.

i have a huge question.

When i used Bradley smokers i used a Auber PID for it.

Question.

The original Novus digital controller is not a PID type. So when i want to run the temp higher i have to push the P button then up arrow then P again and i have to do this every time to go higher.

Sorry i'm just not that electronic savvy

Would this Auber PID work with the orginal Novus digital still hooked up to my smoker? Or would i have to re route wires.

This is the Auber PID im looking at.
*WIFI Electric Smoker Controller, 1800 Watts*


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## tallbm (Nov 19, 2017)

nepas said:


> Thanks everyone for your help.
> 
> i have a huge question.
> 
> ...



So I think the Novus is the controller on your TSM smoker in your question above.
If so, I have a simple and a complex answer for your scenario.

Simple answer is No.   
You can't hook the Auber PID up to your TSM and just have it control the temperature without the onboard Novus controller messing things up.  As it stands now the onboard Novus has the element cut off from heat unless it is running the show therefore the Auber could never get electricity to the heating element with the Novus in the mix.

Complex answer is Yes.  HOWEVER, you would need to do a wire job.

In such a case I would think you would want the TSM smoker plug to come into the TSM and then immediately be wired to a new additional switch.  
The switch would indicate which controller would be getting used, TSM controller or Auber controller (switch has those two options).
From the new switch you then wire to the TSM almost identical to how it is currently wired so you can use the TSM with it's controller basically the way it works today.
Additionally from the switch on the Auber setting, you would want wires going directly to the heating element so when plugged into the Auber PID, the Auber will control flow electricity form the Auber to the heating element.

You could have both ways but some effort and some rewiring would be needed, there is no simple way to make both work.

The 3rd option is to do a simply rewire and use the Auber PID to control your TSM the same way you had your Bradley rewired to work with the Auber PID.  If I had to choose one of the 3 I would go with the straight rewire and Auber PID controlling the smoker.

I hope this info helps :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 19, 2017)

OUI

I should have paid more attention in electronics class way back in the dirt age :confused::confused::confused::confused::eek::eek:

Would it be worth it just to replace the Novus with a new PID?
From what i am reading i would need a SSR also.

https://www.auberinc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=464


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## tallbm (Nov 20, 2017)

nepas said:


> OUI
> 
> I should have paid more attention in electronics class way back in the dirt age :confused::confused::confused::confused::eek::eek:
> 
> ...



If you go with the PID in the link then yes you would need an SSR.

If you go with a Plug n Play PID like the image a couple of posts above then No the plug n play has all of that built in.

Though the wiring and PID + SSR stuff seems difficult, what I found to be most difficult was housing all of that stuff into a suitable box/container.  They just don't make boxes that are easy to work with for those components.  That is another reason why the Plug n Plays are so nice. :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 20, 2017)

tallbm said:


> If you go with the PID in the link then yes you would need an SSR.
> 
> If you go with a Plug n Play PID like the image a couple of posts above then No the plug n play has all of that built in.
> 
> Though the wiring and PID + SSR stuff seems difficult, what I found to be most difficult was housing all of that stuff into a suitable box/container.  They just don't make boxes that are easy to work with for those components.  That is another reason why the Plug n Plays are so nice. :)



I think i'm starting to understand this some. If i buy the plug n play PID i would need to put a new cord from the heating element to the back of the PID? And unwire all the rest of the original components? The element would have a new power cord plugged into the smoker tower plug. What about a ground?


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## dward51 (Nov 20, 2017)

Rick,

If you buy a PID and SSR you are basically building what you already have in the "all in one" Auber box you already own.

Short version is you need to take the wires from the heating element and basically make them into a plug in extension cord end.  Then totally ditch the TSM control and plug that element into the Auber box you already have.  You will also need to use the pit and meat probes that go with that box.  The Auber box should completely control the show after that.

It's not as hard as it sounds.  From the smoker you will need 3 wires with a regular 110v gounded plug (under $10 at Home Depot).  You need to run a ground wire to somewhere on the smoker body to ground it for safety, and the other two wires will be the white and black that go to the heating element.  That's it.  In theory you could take the TSM control box off the side of the smoker after that if you needed to free up some space in the RV for storage of the smoker.

Give me a minute and I'll draw a diagram and upload it.


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## tallbm (Nov 20, 2017)

nepas said:


> I think i'm starting to understand this some. If i buy the plug n play PID i would need to put a new cord from the heating element to the back of the PID? And unwire all the rest of the original components? The element would have a new power cord plugged into the smoker tower plug. What about a ground?



You are starting to get the idea.  What you suggest is one way for sure.
A simpler approach is just to take the existing wiring in their today and do a simple rewire.

See the image below as the reference:

Keep Ground(3) there as it is
Unhook HOT(1) from the switch, Unhook Element hot(7) from the existing controller, and connect the two ends together (you can use a butt splice connector, or wire nut splice, etc.)
Unhook Neutral(2) from the switch, Unhook Element Neutral(6) from the switch, and connect the two ends together (you can use a butt splice connector, or wire nut splice, etc.)
Do that and you can use your current (or any applicable) Auber Plug N Play PID with the TSM.  Also there will be NO electricity flowing into the old TSM controller or components so no need to pull it out or mess with it as it has been completely bypassed :)







Let me know if this makes sense :)


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## dward51 (Nov 20, 2017)

Rick,

Basically with my mod you can take the control box you now have (the one mounted to TSM smoker) completely off and just rewire the new (or old if the one you have works OK) heating element with a standard grounded 110v plug.  Based on the photo you posted of the replacement elements, they appear to have standard bladed connectors.  You could buy a couple of feet of SJ 12-3 wire from Home Depot along with the crimp connectors to make a new cord for the element to the PID controller







You could use this plug from Home Depot (about $3) or any similar plug.  You want to wire this so you can plug the element directly into the back of the Auber PID box you have.







You want to plug it in on the back of the PID where it says "To smoker tower"....


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## dward51 (Nov 20, 2017)

If you make a new cord and unhook the existing wires from the heating element (but leave them in the back of the cabinet - tape over them with electrical tape very well "just in case"), you can go back to factory by just removing the new "extension cord" mod and plugging the blade terminals back into the original wiring.   You want to tape over both terminal connectors when you remove the existing connector from the element in case someone plugs the smoker in like normal and turns the power on.  If not insulated well with electrical tape, those connectors will be live with 110v AC and could ground out to the cabinet.  That's the "just in case". 

That way you can use the PID and if it ever flakes out (unlikely), just open the back, untape the original connectors and put them back on the element and you are back up without having to order parts.  Or if you sell he TSM to buy another smoker it can be sold as "stock" and you can use the PID on another project.


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## tallbm (Nov 20, 2017)

dward51 has a great option as well :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 21, 2017)

Thanks guys.

I think i can manage to do the un plug stuff and go with the PnP PID


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## tallbm (Nov 21, 2017)

nepas said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I think i can manage to do the un plug stuff and go with the PnP PID



If your TSM wiring size/guage is 14 AWG (like the MES) then this chord is right up your alley for doing the 2nd chord rewire job that dward51 has explained.

These cord stress relief gland joints will also work for the power chord.  You use one of these in the new hole you drill into your TSM for inserting the new cord.  You put the chord through this device and then you tighten this device down on the chord so now when the chord is pulled it won't yank the wires from the heating element.  Yanking the chord is stopped by this device and the frame you have installed it in :)

On the *left hand side of the image below *you can see me using the same cord and cord relief gland to build my own PID controller with custom housing box for all the components to sit in:






Let me know if these parts make sense :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 21, 2017)

Yes i understand. TY

When i got all the new parts i bought a new outdoor 8' 14 awg cord.

Thanks


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 22, 2017)

Ok

If i go with how dw posted can i do this.
The power and neutral wires already have the female type push plug. Can i put the spade end on the power and neutral from the element and just push em together and elect tape real good or shrink tube em?

Sorry for the newb electrical questions.


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## tallbm (Nov 22, 2017)

nepas said:


> Ok
> 
> If i go with how dw posted can i do this.
> The power and neutral wires already have the female type push plug. Can i put the spade end on the power and neutral from the element and just push em together and elect tape real good or shrink tube em?
> ...



Yep, you can totally do that.  I actually did that on my MES :D 
Make sure there is no looseness or wiggle with your connections because they will overheat and burn up over time if there is.

Also be SURE to use your connectors that are colored Blue.  The Blue colored connectors are 14-16 AWG size. 
Red are 16-20 AWG.  The Red may work but the Blue are are a better fit.

As for the connectors you put on the heating element you will want to use Hi Temp Stainless Steep ones like the ones below.  They shouldn't corrode.  Also Heat Shrink insulation is a good idea, I just tighten it with a lighter, no need for a heat gun :)

or these if you need flag spade for space/fit reasons


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 22, 2017)

I cant seem to locate the SS high temp male end on Amazon


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## daveomak (Nov 22, 2017)

Remove the insulation with a box knife...


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## tallbm (Nov 22, 2017)

nepas said:


> I cant seem to locate the SS high temp male end on Amazon



You should only need the hi temp connectors for connecting directly to the heating element.  The wires that are elsewhere should be ok with standard connectors... unless they are getting a lot of heat where they are at :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 23, 2017)

tallbm said:


> You should only need the hi temp connectors for connecting directly to the heating element.  The wires that are elsewhere should be ok with standard connectors... unless they are getting a lot of heat where they are at :)



Thanks


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## BGKYSmoker (Dec 3, 2017)

Ok i went with the Auber 1800w PID.
So i take the 2 lines from the element and wire to my new HD cord. Leave the ground where it is fixed to the smoker. Does it matter which 2 lines from the element goes to the wire on the cord? Both lines from element are like fabric coated and black.

Black/black
Black/white


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## daveomak (Dec 3, 2017)

Doesn't make any difference...   The element doesn't know where the current comes from  ...   AC current flows 2 directions... so the element will heat evenly...   Thus the name "Alternating" Current..


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## BGKYSmoker (Dec 3, 2017)

daveomak said:


> Doesn't make any difference...   The element doesn't know where the current comes from  ...   AC current flows 2 directions... so the element will heat evenly...   Thus the name "Alternating" Current..


Thanks Dave


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## tallbm (Dec 4, 2017)

Dave has you covered.
I would love to see what it all looks like when you have it rewired.  I assume it would be a simple job.  Just be sure you use hi temp connectors on the heating element and ensure all connectors are snug with no wiggle.
I can't wait to see how it comes out! :)


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## BGKYSmoker (Dec 4, 2017)

Well i musta did it right.







I got the PID with the thermocouple probe.






And hold steady for some sticks at 130 for an hour.
YAY






Thanks everyone for all your help and guidance.


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## daveomak (Dec 4, 2017)

Now everyone in the park will call on you to fix their electrical....   lol..


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## tallbm (Dec 4, 2017)

Hahaha, I agree Dave :D

*Nepas, what is the insulation like on that TSM smoker? 
Also whats the original top temp range?*

I ask because with the new PID controller you don't have a hard upper temp limit.  You just need to be sure that you don't push a temp that might hurt your smoker.  So be mindful of this :)

For example, my MES 40" has an original max of 275F but with my rewire and PID I push it to 325F for quick chicken/turkey smokes so I get edible skin.  I don't exceed 275F for anything else because I don't want to ruin the spray foam insulation that MES uses in the body.


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## daveomak (Dec 4, 2017)

Model: WS-1510ELPM

Is that the controller you have ???  I been reading up on it...


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## BGKYSmoker (Dec 4, 2017)

tallbm said:


> Hahaha, I agree Dave :D
> 
> *Nepas, what is the insulation like on that TSM smoker?
> Also whats the original top temp range?*
> ...



The max is 200. I never go past 170* anyways. The insulation is some sort of glass about 3/4" thick.

When i used Bradley smokers i went thru 3 Auber PIDs (had them re built)


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## BGKYSmoker (Dec 4, 2017)

daveomak said:


> Model: WS-1510ELPM
> 
> Is that the controller you have ???  I been reading up on it...



I have the WS-1510DPM


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## Gary1 (Mar 22, 2019)

Nepas,
Good morning. I just ordered an Auber WSD-1200-GPH controller for my TSM Country smoker and I am wondering if you have any advice on wiring it in to my smoker. I read that there are several different approaches that you can take by either adding a separate cord or reusing the original power cord on the unit. Which did you do? By default, you have become the official expert on TSM electrical modifications. I realize that is a heavy burden for a man that does not have a multi-meter. (I actually have one but don't know how to use it.) Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gary


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## daveomak (Mar 22, 2019)

Gary1, morning.... click on this link....  it may help....

.........    Controller  ........


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## Gary1 (Mar 23, 2019)

Thanks, Daveomak. I have read the online manual for the Auber and all that it says that pertains to me is that it is not approved for use on anything but the Bradley and I know Nepas wired one into his 
TSM smoker. I can find the high temp wires and hook them up to a separate cord, bypassing the on off switch, the original temp controller and just plug it into the Auber. My concern is that I will also be bypassing any safety measures (if any) in the original wiring. I am not sure what safety is incorporated as inside the control box there is only two components, switch and controller. I don't want to burn down the farm. I called TSM but the tech I talked to had never heard about Auber so he was no help.


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## daveomak (Mar 24, 2019)

I think if you hook it directly to the heating element, the original controls will still function, without any heat control...
I hooked a dimmer switch to my MES30 element...  The original controls don't know the element is out of the circuit...  It turns on and off like normal...  The high limit still functions...
What you "might" have to do, is what I did, is set the original temp controller to max. temperature, then have the Auber control at lower temps...  You can use the power to the element to power up your Auber...  That way the Auber will turn on and off with the original switch on the smoker..  AS LONG AS you don't use more power than the smoker originally supplied...  That would trip circuit controls...  blow fuses etc...  ALSO, make sure the element does not use more power than the Auber is designed for....  Make sense ???


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## Gary1 (Mar 24, 2019)

Dave, thanks for the input. I think it makes sense. I need to get into the unit and try to rewire and then I will find out if I do or don't understand. I am good on the power limits. The TSM Country smoker is rated at 1000 watts and the Auber is rated for 1400 watts. 40% safety margin should be plenty. Beside I don't "cook" in my smoker, only smoke. I have a Traeger if I want to cook a pork butt so I am seldom smoking hotter than 175 F. When you say "You can use the power to the element to power up your Auber..." do you mean remove the high temp wires (from the coil) from where they are currently landed (one goes to the existing controller and the other goes to the switch) and wire those now vacant terminals to an electrical outlet that I install in the control box and then plug the Auber into that to get it power? Then by setting the existing controller to max I would be presenting full power to the Auber for it to control. And then add a new cord to connect the high temp wires from the coil to a plug that would be plugged into the Auber? That seems like it would just be splicing the Auber into the unit and makes sense. I am really grateful for your advice and assistance on this matter. I am new to this (or any) forum and I am impressed at the help people offer. Thanks, Dave.   Gary


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## daveomak (Mar 24, 2019)

Yep...  By installing the Auber where the element is, all the TSM smoker controls are still operative EXCEPT for the heating function..  Having the TSM temp control set to max, your Auber should never run out of power....  And the Auber, with it's temp probes, will control the heat....
Just connect the Auber controller power plug, to the wires that would normally go from the TSM wires to the element....  Get a female plug on those wires that would go to the element....


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## tallbm (Mar 24, 2019)

Gary1 said:


> Dave, thanks for the input. I think it makes sense. I need to get into the unit and try to rewire and then I will find out if I do or don't understand. I am good on the power limits. The TSM Country smoker is rated at 1000 watts and the Auber is rated for 1400 watts. 40% safety margin should be plenty. Beside I don't "cook" in my smoker, only smoke. I have a Traeger if I want to cook a pork butt so I am seldom smoking hotter than 175 F. When you say "You can use the power to the element to power up your Auber..." do you mean remove the high temp wires (from the coil) from where they are currently landed (one goes to the existing controller and the other goes to the switch) and wire those now vacant terminals to an electrical outlet that I install in the control box and then plug the Auber into that to get it power? Then by setting the existing controller to max I would be presenting full power to the Auber for it to control. And then add a new cord to connect the high temp wires from the coil to a plug that would be plugged into the Auber? That seems like it would just be splicing the Auber into the unit and makes sense. I am really grateful for your advice and assistance on this matter. I am new to this (or any) forum and I am impressed at the help people offer. Thanks, Dave.   Gary



Hi there and welcome Gary!

If your TSM guts look the guts in the following image I'm pretty sure we can make 2 splices from the existing plug that is already in your unit so that it bypasses the old busted TSM controller.  This is basically what Nepas did.  See the explanation image here and then below it see Nepas wire job to bypass the TSM controller so the plug would feed power directly to the TSM element from his Auber :)

Explanation of wiring picture:






Nepas wire job image:






In short he basically connected Hot (1) to Element Hot (7) but it looks like he kept the switch in the circuit.  You would probably just want to byass the switch all together, that is my recommendation since the Auber unit has a switch.
Then he spliced Neutral (2) to Element Neutral (6).
If there is a safety cut off switch in the circuit his rewire would keep it in the circuit :)

*If you directly splice Hot (1) to Element Hot (7) and then Neutral (2) to Element Neutral (6) it would make the existing TSM plug run to the heating element.*  You then plug the TSM plug into the Auber and the Auber into the wall for power.  You put the Auber temp probe inside the TSM and the Auber can now read the temp inside the TSM and cut power off/on to the heating element to hold the temp.

Let me know if that makes a little sense :)


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## indaswamp (Mar 24, 2019)

Awesome post 

 tallbm
!!!


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## Gary1 (Mar 25, 2019)

Good morning Tallbm. Thank you for your response. My existing controller is not malfunctioning, it is just not a PID and I want the additional controll and accuracy of the Auber. What Dave is trying to assist me with is to install the Auber into the control of the TSM and I think he has figured it out! Basically what I am going to do is disconnect the 2 wires from the heating coil and use those now bare terminals to provide power for the auber. The 2, now loose wires from the coil  will be attached to a new extension cord (14 Ga.), run through a grommet through the control box housing and plug into the back of the Auber. I will use the existing power cord to the TSM as the main power cord. We believe that this work around will keep all of the functions of the smoker still active except the coil will be controlled by the Auber. To turn everything on I will use the existing power switch. I hope this rambling makes sense. Gary


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## tallbm (Mar 25, 2019)

indaswamp said:


> Awesome post
> 
> tallbm
> !!!


Thanks :)



Gary1 said:


> Good morning Tallbm. Thank you for your response. My existing controller is not malfunctioning, it is just not a PID and I want the additional controll and accuracy of the Auber. What Dave is trying to assist me with is to install the Auber into the control of the TSM and I think he has figured it out! Basically what I am going to do is disconnect the 2 wires from the heating coil and use those now bare terminals to provide power for the auber. The 2, now loose wires from the coil  will be attached to a new extension cord (14 Ga.), run through a grommet through the control box housing and plug into the back of the Auber. I will use the existing power cord to the TSM as the main power cord. We believe that this work around will keep all of the functions of the smoker still active except the coil will be controlled by the Auber. To turn everything on I will use the existing power switch. I hope this rambling makes sense. Gary



I think that should work for you and meat your requirement for going either way.  Just don't have the new plug unplugged and lying around if you run the TSM from the original plug.  Since you are wiring the new plug directly to the heating element it will get energized when the TSM is on and running from the original plug.  I would hate for you to touch the energized prongs of the new plug in such a situation.  You may want to consider wiring in a switch to the new plug to prevent such a situation so the power from the heating element doesnt make it past the switch into the exposed prongs of the new cord unless you flip the switch on :)


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## Gary1 (Mar 26, 2019)

I understand what you are saying. Here is what I plan to do to make it safe. Let me know what you think. The existing TSM male plug will plug into the wall. This will energize everything except the heating coils. I am going to mount a new female receptacle into the TSM controller box and wire it to where the coil wires were removed. This should give me continuous power as long as the TSM control is set to max temp. This is where I expect to get the power for the Auber controller. The coil is going to have a new cord attached directly to the 2 terminals and exit the existing control box with a cord that is only 10" long with a male plug on it. This is a direct hot wiring of the coil. This short cord will be too short to get to a wall outlet and will only reach the back of the Auber control. The original TSM controller will be set to max and the Auber will now control the temperature. I will make a shelf on top of the control box to mount the Auber right on the side of the TSM. You think it will work? If I plug the TSM power cord into the wall and remove the auber, the exposed male plug should be dead as it only connects to the coil and is not energized. Atleast that is the theory.


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## BGKYSmoker (Mar 26, 2019)

I wired a 12/2 heavy duty cord to my element, that goes right to the back of my PID. The original digital control on TSM smoker has been by passed completely. 

I had lots of help doing this


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## Gary1 (Mar 26, 2019)

Yes, the assistance of the members has been fantastic! I am well on my way and I hope to have a positive report within the week. My Auber is scheduled to arrive by Thursday so I should know soon. I really like the TSM smoker. Most of my smoking has been done on a homemade stick burner and while I have it tuned to give me great control I have to tend it every 45 minutes or so and it is located at my cabin which is 500 feet from my house so I have to stay out there for 6-10 hours and its limits what I can do while smoking. The electric gives me great control and it pretty much takes care of itself. Once I get the Auber and can program temperature changes it should only require a little supervision. I really need to say a special thank you to Davomak and Tallbm who have provided so much input. Thanks!!  Gary


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## tallbm (Mar 26, 2019)

Gary1 said:


> I understand what you are saying. Here is what I plan to do to make it safe. Let me know what you think. The existing TSM male plug will plug into the wall. This will energize everything except the heating coils. I am going to mount a new female receptacle into the TSM controller box and wire it to where the coil wires were removed. This should give me continuous power as long as the TSM control is set to max temp. This is where I expect to get the power for the Auber controller. The coil is going to have a new cord attached directly to the 2 terminals and exit the existing control box with a cord that is only 10" long with a male plug on it. This is a direct hot wiring of the coil. This short cord will be too short to get to a wall outlet and will only reach the back of the Auber control. The original TSM controller will be set to max and the Auber will now control the temperature. I will make a shelf on top of the control box to mount the Auber right on the side of the TSM. You think it will work? If I plug the TSM power cord into the wall and remove the auber, the exposed male plug should be dead as it only connects to the coil and is not energized. Atleast that is the theory.



Hmmm I am following what you are saying but I think something is getting lost.  Here is an image I mocked up what I think you just described:







Is the original TSM plug that goes to the wall
Is where you disconnected the wire from the TSM controller to the heating element
Is where you created a NEW female plug to the TSM controller using the wires removed from the heating element
Is where you created a NEW male plug from the TSM heating element that plugs into the Auber
Is the Auber plug that goes to the wall
Now in this diagram (my understanding of what you explained, I could have misunderstood something), the original TSM plug (1) is almost a dead circuit. 
Meaning, you can turn on the TSM but power is only feed to the TSM controller and lights and the Female plug (3) but not the heating element.  The female plug (3) will only receive power when the original TSM controller senses you are NOT near/at the set temp.  When the TSM controller finds the temp is near/at/above the set temp no power will feed to the female plug and currently the female plug is plugged to nothing.

In the diagram the Auber (5) independently measures temp of the smoker and controls the temp of the smoker by cutting on/off power to the heating element (4).

Now if you plug the heating element plug (4) to the female TSM controller plug (3) you get back to the TSM controlling the heat to the heating element and the Auber is no longer do anything.  Maybe that is the piece I'm missing here.

I have to be missing something because the TSM plug has no affect on cooking anything. 
Let me know where I am confused or missing information and I'll help with any feedback I can :)


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## Gary1 (Mar 29, 2019)

First of all, I am jealous of your sketching ability, this would be much easier if I could show you. The one change to your diagram would be to plug number 5 into number 3. And thank you very much for your effort! I think the part you missed is that the orriginal TSM controller is permanently set to max. (250 degrees) so the controller thinks the temp is too low and constantly provides power to the new female receptical which is where I plug the Auber in for its power, not into a wall outlet. Power starts at the wall, goes into TSM, through the new female receptacle  then to the auber which is outputting power to the coil as demanded by the Auber sensor. The TSM controller is still 100% functional except it no longer controls the coil except in that it is providing power for the Auber which is controlling the coil. I just finished the wiring and am making a shelf to mount on the side of the smoker to hold the Auber. Everything seems to work but I have not smoked anything yet but I will shortly and let you know. This is kind of a brilliant way to wire in the Auber and if it works, which I think it will, all credit needs to go to Daveomak.


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## tallbm (Mar 29, 2019)

Gary1 said:


> First of all, I am jealous of your sketching ability, this would be much easier if I could show you. The one change to your diagram would be to plug number 5 into number 3. And thank you very much for your effort! I think the part you missed is that the orriginal TSM controller is permanently set to max. (250 degrees) so the controller thinks the temp is too low and constantly provides power to the new female receptical which is where I plug the Auber in for its power, not into a wall outlet. Power starts at the wall, goes into TSM, through the new female receptacle  then to the auber which is outputting power to the coil as demanded by the Auber sensor. The TSM controller is still 100% functional except it no longer controls the coil except in that it is providing power for the Auber which is controlling the coil. I just finished the wiring and am making a shelf to mount on the side of the smoker to hold the Auber. Everything seems to work but I have not smoked anything yet but I will shortly and let you know. This is kind of a brilliant way to wire in the Auber and if it works, which I think it will, all credit needs to go to Daveomak.



I see your thinking.
Did you remove the existing TSM temp probe from the inside of the smoker?
If not the TSM controller will still be reading the temp inside the smoker and will cut power off/on to your female plug when the smoker temp gets near/hits/exceeds 250F. 

If you leave the existing TSM temp probe inside the smoker the TSM controller will now cut power off/on to the Auber when the smoker hits 250F.

Also, you probably cannot just disconnect the TSM temp probe from the controller.  The few controllers I have worked with will simply register a no temp reading error rather than act like the reading is 0 degrees so you would need to leave the TSM probe wired up but remove it from the inside of the smoker and hope ambient temps don't get higher than any set temp you may choose in the future.

Like you mentioned this stuff is hard to visualize through written messages so let me know if I have explained this well and be sure you test for this specific case :)


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## Gary1 (Mar 30, 2019)

Yes, the temp probe is still hooked up and it gives me a readout on the display. I only use the smoker for smoking so I never smoke hotter than 225. Mostly 175. I have a Traeger grill if I want to make a pork but or other higher temp cooking/smoking. My intent with keeping the original controller in the system was to save any high temp safety shutdowns that might occur during a malfunction of a component. I really appreciate your time and assistance.


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## Steve H (Mar 30, 2019)

Now I'm a bit confused. If the heating element is wired to the Auber. Then how is TSM control going to prevent a high temp fault? It would signal a fault. But not shut it down.


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## Steve H (Mar 30, 2019)

Ah, after rereading this. I see how it'll work.


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## Gary1 (Mar 30, 2019)

Hi, Steve. Confusing, isn't it. I am sorry if our discussion causes and mental problems. We probably should have issued a hazard warning at the beginning. And yes, any malfunction or over temp will make the TSM controller try to shut down the coil which is the power source for the auber resulting in power shutdown.


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## JckDanls 07 (Mar 30, 2019)

Does the TSM control use a relay or SSR to power the heat coil ? Thinking your gonna have troubles if it's SSR controlled...  If leaving probe for TSM in the cabinet one would think as the temp starts reaching set point that the TSM controller would start cutting back on voltage ...


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## BGKYSmoker (Mar 30, 2019)

The stock controller has built in SSR.
By pass that original, wire your element directly to a heavy duty power cord with grounded plug and plug right into rear of the Auber PID. Dont use the stock temp probe, use the Auber....Easy Peasy.


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## tallbm (Mar 30, 2019)

Gary1 said:


> Yes, the temp probe is still hooked up and it gives me a readout on the display. I only use the smoker for smoking so I never smoke hotter than 225. Mostly 175. I have a Traeger grill if I want to make a pork but or other higher temp cooking/smoking. My intent with keeping the original controller in the system was to save any high temp safety shutdowns that might occur during a malfunction of a component. I really appreciate your time and assistance.



Ok I think I see all the pieces of the puzzle now.
With your wire job you will be running like the following:

The Auber at like 175-225F, at most the Auber may overshoot a 225F set temp and hit 235-240F on initial heat up.
You will have the TSM set to 250F and since the Auber doesn't exceed 240F'ish then the TSM should be providing power the entire time to the Auber which in turn keeps things at 175-225F... power all the time


 JckDanls 07
 brings up a very valid point that you will want to test around as well.  Many controllers will cut down voltage as the temp in the smoker approaches the set temp to avoid overshooting the set temp to much.

Let us know how things work out and if there are too many issues I am 100% positive it would be easy to change your wiring configuration to work with the Auber AND still keep the TSM safety switch mechanisms in the circuit :)


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## Gary1 (Mar 30, 2019)

Very interesting point, Jckdanls. The highest internal temp I every smoke to is 165 degrees  and I would never set the house temp over 225 degrees. Max temp for the TSM is 250 degrees. Will the 25 degrees be enough to keep full power to the Auber?? It would certainly be much simpler to just hot wire the coil to the Auber like SFLsmkr1 did and I am wondering if that bypasses any safety features. When I think about it, I am not sure what safety features the smoker has to begin with. There is literally nothing inside the TSM controller box except the orriginal controller and a switch for on and off. I expect the Auber would respond in like manner if a component malfunctioned. All I would have to do to go to the easy peasey method is to remove the power cord to the TSM and plug the auber into the wall. I already have the coil wired to the Auber with a male plug. I was not in any case going to rely on the TSM temp probe but I also have not disconnected it.


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## Gary1 (Mar 30, 2019)

Tallbm, that is exactly how it should operate. I don't cook in the smoker so I generally start out at 125 degrees for one hour  no smoke, 140 degrees for one hour with smoke, 155 degrees for 2 hours with smoke and then finish at 175 no smoke until IT reaches 145 for bacon or 160 for snack sticks. so I am hoping that even if I set the smoker to 225 it won't overshoot too much because I am not coming at it from a dead stop. This basic smoke recipe works for salami, brats, Italian sausage, etc.


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## tallbm (Mar 30, 2019)

Gary1 said:


> Very interesting point, Jckdanls. The highest internal temp I every smoke to is 165 degrees  and I would never set the house temp over 225 degrees. Max temp for the TSM is 250 degrees. Will the 25 degrees be enough to keep full power to the Auber?? It would certainly be much simpler to just hot wire the coil to the Auber like SFLsmkr1 did and I am wondering if that bypasses any safety features. When I think about it, I am not sure what safety features the smoker has to begin with. There is literally nothing inside the TSM controller box except the orriginal controller and a switch for on and off. I expect the Auber would respond in like manner if a component malfunctioned. All I would have to do to go to the easy peasey method is to remove the power cord to the TSM and plug the auber into the wall. I already have the coil wired to the Auber with a male plug. I was not in any case going to rely on the TSM temp probe but I also have not disconnected it.




I'll let jckdanls answer for himself but I personally think its a coin flip as to whether or not 25F degrees smoker temp below set temp of TSM will cause the voltage changes.  This ALL depends on the programming/algorithm of the TSM controller and these things vary widely!  Hell PID controller numbers by definition change such behavior with every value change and every combination of value changes you can enter so its all just a guess as to what the TSM will be doing.

What SFLsmkr1 mention is a much simpler sure fire way to go about the rewire.  Less failure points, no voltage issues to address, just less stuff in the mix overall.  I whipped up a new image (top image is now, bottom image is old one for reference) for you to help understand how you could EASILY rewire similarly to what SFLsmkr1 mentions while KEEPING any safety switch in the mix that TSM may use.
This is the same idea we follow when rewiring an MES which keeps the safety switch in the mix.

In short you ignore/eliminate everything in the red box.
You take the existing wiring that goes from the TSM SSR to the TSM heating element and unhook it FROM the SSR and instead splice that wire to a plug (green line).
Any safety switch (if one exists) should logically still exist along the wiring from the TSM SSR to the TSM heating element so with this approach you would be keeping the safety switch in the mix and know that safety switches are almost always independent of the controller and the smoker temp probe (switch indicated in black line from heating element to the green line splice point).

If this makes sense let me know and we can walk you through the next magical iteration (*spoiler alert:* instead of wiring up a new and separate plug, you just wire up to the existing TSM plug bypassing the controller and SSR completely and no need to buy a new plug.  In short the green line and plug is just replaced with the TSM plug and wire  )


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## daveomak (Mar 30, 2019)

You can solve the temp situation by placing the stock thermocouple outside the smoker...  Clip it outside somewhere....


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## Gary1 (Mar 31, 2019)

I like this solution a lot and am going with it. Bought a couple pork bellies yesterday and started the 7 day cure. I will let you guys know how the bacon turns out as soon as it is done. Thank you all for your input. It is nice having so much support and experience behind me. I am going to reuse the original power cord for the TSM and connect it directly to the coil, plug it into the Auber and be done with it. Like i've been told, "Easy Peasy".


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## JckDanls 07 (Mar 31, 2019)

That's the best route to go..  The Auber should have Alarms that you can set for low and high temps ...  I've not had the chance to use/play with a plug and play unit so I'm not positive about the alarm settings... I built my own controller so the PID has these features but also allows you to hook something to those alarm outputs for a visual or audible notification ...


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## dr k (Mar 31, 2019)

The alarms are worthless on the Auber plug and play (you have to be next to it and the alarms aren't alarming-too quiet) so out of my 6 probe BT therm I just set a custom range for example 145-290F when hot smoking around 275 and put it next to the Auber sensor.


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## tallbm (Mar 31, 2019)

dr k said:


> The alarms are worthless on the Auber plug and play (you have to be next to it and the alarms aren't alarming-too quiet) so out of my 6 probe BT therm I just set a custom range for example 145-290F when hot smoking around 275 and put it next to the Auber sensor.



Like dr k I too use my wireless Thermopro TP-20 and it's alarms come in super handy.
My HeaterMeter PID uses wifi and in the case that signal goes to crap or my wifi has gone down (needed router restart) the TP-20 worked like a champ.
I also have a funny situation where my GFI outlet has tripped due to SOMEONE using a hardcore hair dryer on the same GFI circuit in the house and that tripped the breaker.  Instead of telling me they just went to a different room and continued hair drying lol.  The only thing running was a separate thermometer measuring smoker high and low temps and it's alarm rescued me in this situation :)


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