# Holding Meat and other Foods above 140°F (60°C)



## chef jimmyj

The question of keeping meat hot for X number of Hours comes up frequently. They get a variety of answers like " 5 to 6 hours, wrapped in a Cooler and it will still be Hot.." Or, " Put it in the Oven on Low, 150 to 170°F, and you'll be fine..." And at least one member that has been here and paying attention will post, " For Safety, keep the meat above 140°F or Bacteria can start to grow! "
These are All valid answers but, I  would like to Expand and Clarify  the answer on Holding at 140°F, especially in a Cooler...

Yes, the USDA recommends Hot Food be held 140+. But, that is Hot food that will be Exposed to Bacteria, like a pan of Pulled Pork on a Buffet, and by Regulations in Restaurants and Food Service operations with often poorly trained and less than conscientious workers.
Realistically,  if you pull a 225°F Brisket out of the smoker and Immediately wrap it in Paper or Foil, cover that in Towels and place the whole deal in a Clean Cooler. It really does not matter how low the IT goes over the next 12 hours or so.
It would take some seriously Beefed up, Genetically Modified, Super Bacteria to get in to a Closed Cooler, passed a couple layers  of Towels, through the Foil or Greasy Paper, on to the less than 140° " Salted " Brisket and then, multiple to any Dangerous Numbers! It just cant happen IF AND ONLY IF, you immediately wrap straight from the Smoker or Oven.
Now if you rest the meat on the Counter an hour before Wrapping or you, your family or guests open that cooler and start Picking at the meat, with Dirty Fingers, we are back to making sure the meat Stays above 140°F...JJ☺


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## normanaj

Good post.

I was going to say make this a sticky but I just saw that it already is!


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## chef jimmyj

Yeah, second time in the last several days I answered posts about holding, so I figured it will come up again. Thanks...JJ


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## smokerjim

good info there chef! thanks for posting


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## Bearcarver

Very Informative !!!
Thanks Jimmy!

Bear


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## kilo charlie

Thank you for posting this !


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## zwiller

THANKS.  Good info. Semi related.  

 chef jimmyj
   Can I ask if you ever used the infamous Alto Shaam warmers?  Anything "magic" about them?  I tend to think an MES set to 140F with foiled butt/brisket is basically the same.


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## thirdeye

chef jimmyj said:


> Yes, the USDA recommends Hot Food be held 140+. But, that is Hot food that will be Exposed to Bacteria, like a pan of Pulled Pork on a Buffet, and by Regulations in Restaurants and Food Service operations with often poorly trained and less than conscientious workers.
> Realistically, if you pull a 225°F Brisket out of the smoker and Immediately wrap it in Paper or Foil, cover that in Towels and place the whole deal in a Clean Cooler. It really does not matter how low the IT goes over the next 12 hours or so.
> 
> It would take some seriously Beefed up, Genetically Modified, Super Bacteria to get in to a Closed Cooler, passed a couple layers of Towels, through the Foil or Greasy Paper, on to the less than 140° " Salted " Brisket and then, multiple to any Dangerous Numbers! It just cant happen IF AND ONLY IF, you immediately wrap straight from the Smoker or Oven.



JJ, I've never cooked a brisket to 225°.... do you use a pizza peel to scoop it out of the smoker?  

In all seriousness, your entire post is very good information, and this ↑↑↑  snip is very accurate. Now, let's say for example a brisket was wrapped at 160°, then returned to the smoker until it's internal was 202° and the foil pouch remains sealed. This would eliminate any cross contamination when prepping to go into a hot box.   But as many of us do, I vent the foil pouch, and usually do some probing.  

That said, is it safe to assume that even if your gloves, tongs or a probe had some active bacteria on it, and it did transfer to the meat, would any baddies survive since the meat is so hot?


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## indaswamp

Great post chef jj! One thing I have learned making salami and dried meats is a much better understanding of HOW the rules can be bent and why.....this is a great example...thanks for posting.


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## kilo charlie

thirdeye said:


> JJ, I've never cooked a brisket to 225°.... do you use a pizza peel to scoop it out of the smoker?
> 
> In all seriousness, your entire post is very good information, and this ↑↑↑  snip is very accurate. Now, let's say for example a brisket was wrapped at 160°, then returned to the smoker until it's internal was 202° and the foil pouch remains sealed. This would eliminate any cross contamination when prepping to go into a hot box.   But as many of us do, I vent the foil pouch, and usually do some probing.
> 
> That said, is it safe to assume that even if your gloves, tongs or a probe had some active bacteria on it, and it did transfer to the meat, would any baddies survive since the meat is so hot?




Greta catch on the high temp.. I missed that detail LOL and also great question!


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## pushok2018

By some unknown reason (?) I missed previous posts about this.... This is really important information to have. Thank you, Jimmy!


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## Hamdrew

I accidentally left a 2wk cured, 1lb or so chunk of back bacon double-wrapped in foil (as it had been since pulling it) in the microwave Sunday night.. When I got up at 4 and remembered, it went right into the freezer as it should've the night before.


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## chef jimmyj

zwiller
 The Alto Sham is sweet. The most basic model is just a precision  Holding Oven that is well sealed to hold in moisture. The MES can be made almost as tight and with a PID as precise. Though a Stock MES will be good enough.



thirdeye said:


> JJ, I've never cooked a brisket to 225°....



If  you Smoke at 225°F, when you take that Brisket out to Wrap, whether the IT is 160, 190 or 205...The Surface 1" is most definitely 225°F!
Now, since the Surface is well above 150, the Touching, Wrapping, Probing, Stealing a piece of Bark☺, is all Fine. Any Bacteria we may introduce, is instantly killed by the Surface Heat....JJ


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## kilo charlie

chef jimmyj said:


> zwiller
> The Alto Sham is sweet. The most basic model is just a precision  Holding Oven that is well sealed to hold in moisture. The MES can be made almost as tight and with a PID as precise. Though a Stock MES will be good enough.
> 
> 
> 
> If  you Smoke at 225°F, when you take that Brisket out to Wrap, whether the IT is 160, 190 or 205...The Surface 1" is most definitely 225°F!
> Now, since the Surface is well above 150, the Touching, Wrapping, Probing, Stealing a piece of Bark☺, is all Fine. Any Bacteria we may introduce, is instantly killed by the Surface Heat....JJ



Thank you for the clarifications!


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