# Noob lucked up and found a proofer for $25.  Can you help me with the build?



## cajun joe (Jan 2, 2013)

Hello, all!

I am totally new to the forum - I've only said hello on roll call - but I'm hoping you guys will show some love and help me out.  :-)

Here's the story... I grew up in S. Louisiana where there are awesome specialty meat stores everywhere, and I have an aunt who owns a sausage kitchen that makes the best smoked sausage and tasso I've ever eaten.  So, what's a cajun to do when he finds himself living in the hills of North Georgia?  Make his own sausage and tasso... what else?!?!

I currently have an electric masterbuilt with a smoke pistol installed, but I'm hoping you'll help me upgrade.  TODAY, I stumbled into a WORKING Metro C200 for $25.  It is in great shape.  It reaches and holds temperature to 240 degrees.

Will you guys help me build this thing the right way?

Here are my questions... 1) What should I use as my vent?  2) Where should I place the vent based on what you see going on with the C200 in the link above?  3) Where would you place the port for the smoke pistol? 4) Any suggestions for hanging rods? (Anybody make their own V rods? If so, how?)

Here are my KNOWN variables: A) The C200 reaches temp, holds temp, and circulates air throughout.  B) I want to use the smoke pistol as my smoke source.  C) My C200 is a front loading two door design.  It is not a pass-through.

Thanks to anyone willing to help out.  Please, talk to me AND to each other about what you think will be the best way to proceed.

-Joe

PS... If anyone wants to REALLY look at the C200's specs, here's a link that provides great detail: 

www.*metro*.com/literature/LO1-182


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## daveomak (Jan 2, 2013)

Joe, evening....  Nice find.....  I'd like to stumble or be dragged into a deal like that....   Smoke generating...  unless you are totally in love with the smoke pistol, I would recommend you look at the AMNPS as a smoke generator....  no moving parts... no creosote... burns up to 12 hours on one loading of pellets.. no electricity needed....  The best smoke generator on the market.....  Todd Johnson makes and distributes them.... 

About the smoker.... You do not want to mess up the insulation between the panels.... Putting in vents properly, will require removal, cutting and installing vents of some sorts... Probably 2 each 8 sq inches, 1 on each side in the top of the side panels and 2 each 6 sq inches, 1 on each side of the bottom of the side panels...  make access for wiring, therms or anything else in the future that may arise before reassembly... vents should have adjustable dampers on them for tweaking airflow... There have been a few of them built on here... check them out and ask the builders for any tricks they learned or should have learned...    Keep us in on the build.... Take pictures so others can learn also....

Dave

Check them out.... you will not be sorry for at least looking...   

_                 click on this link_

*http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a-maze-n-products*


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## woodcutter (Jan 2, 2013)

I thought I could help but my smoker was just a baking sheet cabinet made out of aluminum. Where is the heating element located?


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## cajun joe (Jan 3, 2013)

Dave,  thanks for the link. I will definitely check out the other builds and the smoker you suggest.  I really appreciate the advice. I know nothing about this stuff - yet.

Cutter, 
The heating element is at the top and a fan moves the heat through two internal side chimneys for equitable distribution throughout the unit. I'm curious about whether there is a need to be concerned about drying the meat too much. There is a water pan immediately beneath the heating unit with a variable vent for humidity control. I wonder if that's enough.


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## cajun joe (Jan 3, 2013)

Also, Dave...

I'm ESPECIALLY appreciative of the tip to dismantle to avoid compromising the insulation. I would have gone at it with a drill and a saws-all this weekend.


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## daveomak (Jan 3, 2013)

Dave, The reason I wrote that....  I tried to drill through an aluminum wall with insulation inside.... The insulation wrapped up on the bit and then the trouble began... What a PITA.... pulled insulation from every corner of the cabinet.....  First hand experience is planted deep in the brain...


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## fagesbp (Jan 3, 2013)

What a lucky find! I'd love to find one like this to make a drying chamber for some good dried sausages. I'd like to see what you end up with. Coonass ingenuity.


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## cajun joe (Jan 6, 2013)

Well,  I got 'er built up and going. I'm running a 10# batch of andouille to test her as I'm typing this. I decided to stick with the smoke pistol for now - mainly because I had this new, super cool smoker and couldn't wait for the other to ship. ;-)

So, here's what I did...

  For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to make vents look "nice" without a welder, so I scratched my head and went to Home Depot 4 or 5 times just to walk around and hope an idea would hit me.  Well, it did! In the electrical department, I found these compression coupling doodamaflickers... CHEAP!  

I bought 6 1"ers and 4 2"ers and hole saws to match... total cost about 65bucks! Then, I took 1/4 inch bolts and made baffles that fit inside the couplings. I can insert them to stop the flow, remove them for full flow, or pivot them for better control. 

Basically, it's a sleeve inserted through the walls of the smoker with nuts at both ends.  













image.jpg



__ cajun joe
__ Jan 6, 2013





(I'll post a better pic soon... No flash on my iPad)

It seems to be working well. I'll let y'all know soon... :-)


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## smokin-aces (Jan 7, 2013)

Lookin good! Put up some more pictures!


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## cajun joe (Jan 8, 2013)

New Question... I originally said that the smoker would reach and hold temperature at 240. That was ambitious. I put a different thermometer in and realized it is shutting off at 220. My question is this: is there a way to insert a new thermostat and controller so that it would reach higher temperatures but still shut itself on and off? I want to be able to cold smoke, but I would also like to be able to cook pork butts and things.


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## smokin-aces (Jan 8, 2013)

I wonder if you could get a universal adjustable thermostat and wire it in. Such as one used on vehicles that have electric fans?


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## cajun joe (Jan 8, 2013)

Tell me more... I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.


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## smokin-aces (Jan 8, 2013)

Something like this...













adjustable thermostat.jpg



__ smokin-aces
__ Jan 8, 2013






This is at http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prf-30112/overview/. It cost $67 and some change. These are used to control the aftermarket electric fan many hot rodders use to save space in the engine compartment and free up horse power. The probe you see at the top of the picture is stuck in between the fins of the radiator and when the fluid in the radiator reaches the set temperature, it turns the fan on. The range from what I can tell for this thermostat is around 180-240 degrees. This may not work with your application, but I bet if you were a semi skilled electrician you could wire this into your system and put the probe in the Cook Chamber. I am not. I do not know how sensitive these thermostats are because the way they are designed to work is with the probe stuck in hot metal, not in hot air. I don't know if that would affect how it operates, but I just thought I would pass the idea on to you.


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## dward51 (Jan 9, 2013)

It has a thermal limit switch to prevent the element from overheating (it's a warmer not an oven).  220 would be about right for one of those cabinets to shut down on the thermal limiter.  Look at page 9 of the manual PDF you posted.  It's item #5 in the drawing (see excerpt photo below).  If you bypass it, or even better replace it with one that has a higher setting (let's you still have a safety shutoff for over temps), I suspect you should be able to get above 220.

From looking at the schematic on page 10 of the manual, just follow the wire off of terminal 18 on the terminal block and you should find the high limit switch. It is wired between the terminal block and one leg of the heating element (probably inside the blower airduct with the heating element from the looks of the image below).  Looks to have spade lugs from the schematics so it should be easy to bypass for temporary testing with a jumper.

Any you could rewire it with a PID controller and SSR if you wanted pin point digital control. I've also seen builds where they use a 2nd PID as an adjustable digital high limit switch. But for now, I'd either bypass or remove the thermal limit switch and see how it performs.  Just keep an eye on it to make sure the temps do not run away on you.

What wattage is the heating element?  I did not see that data in the PDF, but I bet it's a 1750 watt element (or there abouts).

Also I would bet that unit has blown in poly insulation instead of batts.  If you don't plan on going over 240 or 250 I don't think the poly is an issue, but that stuff starts to break down around 270 to 350 depending on the exact chemical composition.  Since it's made as a warmer, I would think it would be on the higher end but I don't know for sure.  What did you see when you cut those holes? Fiber insulation or blown in foam?













limit switch.jpg



__ dward51
__ Jan 9, 2013


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## smokin-aces (Jan 9, 2013)

Now there is the guy you need to talk to about wiring!  ^^


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## cajun joe (Jan 9, 2013)

You guys are AWESOME... Thank you so much for the information.  I'm off to search the internet for a higher temp limiter because that seems like the more straight-forward (and easier for a clueless noob) way to go about it. 

Regarding the insulation... It is a combination of the two.  The walls have batting against the inside wall and poly against the outside wall.  The heating element chamber is insulated with just the batting. 

I saw the high-temp switch in the schematics and thought that might be the right place to focus my thinking, but I was afraid of the temp running away on me if I just removed it.  I really like the idea of switching it out to a higher limit... I'm thinking 275 or so.  That'll let me cook low and slow at 225 or so and then pop up the temp at the end if I felt the need.  Typically, most of what I do is in the 140 - 170 range. 

IF I get this thing up and running at a higher temp, I would have enough capacity to feed a small army.  At that point, I gotta learn how to cook.  :-)

Thanks again for all the info.  I know I need to put some pics up, but I haven't been home in daylight for a while.  If nothing else, I'll post a bunch of stuff Saturday.  If my new Maverick et732 arrives before then, I'm cooking a batch of good ol louisiana style sausage and maybe a couple slabs of tasso.


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## cajun joe (Jan 9, 2013)

BTW... yes, I know I don't have to have a fancy thermometer to make sausage, but i just LOVE gadgets.  Two probes... 300 feet wireless... oh, heck yeah!


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## smokin-aces (Jan 9, 2013)

I like this build. There is very little building involved and it seems to be a clean reliable source for smoking meat. I may do one of these after the one I'm working on now... And I thought hot rodding was addictive. You can't eat what comes off of a hot engine! Smokers are fun to build, relatively cheap (compared to other hobbies that invlove a welder and torch), and best of all when it's finished, you get to enjoy the delicious meat that comes off of it.


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## cajun joe (Jan 9, 2013)

Dave...

I just looked up PID... lots of lights and numbers... looks like a gadget... RIGHT UP MY ALLEY! 

So... since that's the very first time I've ever seen PID and SSR (solid state relay, I'm assuming) written anywhere or a picture of either, I'm curious...

Let's say - oh hypothetically - that I have _A FRIEND_ who was going to wire a unit _JUST LIKE MINE_ - with a PID and SSR. Which unit would be the one you'd advise him to put in?  This guy's wife is starting to raise an eyebrow about how much he's sinking into this project - and several others, so he needs to get it right the first time.  ;-)

-Joe


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## cajun joe (Jan 9, 2013)

Aces,

I agree about the clean build on this thing.  I have been really pleased with the results I've gotten with VERY limited skills.  My only regret is that I bought a cheap holesaw for the lower vent ports that wasn't deep enough to center itself on both walls at the same time.  Because of that, I have a little bit of an alignment issue that created a 1/8" gap on the outside wall of the cabinet.  It doesn't create problems, it just isn't as "finished" looking as I'd like it to be.  My two inch holes up top are nicely aligned and the sleeve of the compression coupling works perfectly.

It's literally just drilling holes, inserting the sleeves, and screwing on the compression nut on both ends to hold it in.  I built up some dampers with nuts and bolts and the drops from the holes I drilled (just used my bench grinder to grind down the circumference enough to fit inside the compression nut).  If I were to do another, I could do it in less than an hour.  Most of my time was spent walking around in home-depot trying to figure out what to use for my intakes and exhausts - hours. 

Joe


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## handymanstan (Jan 9, 2013)

For a pid some thing like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-240VAC-...405?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460abcf13d

This is the manual http://www.rkcinst.co.jp/english/pdf_manual/imnzc17e3.pdf

Stan


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## daveomak (Jan 9, 2013)

Joe, morning.... FWIW, my temp for smoking pork butts is 210.... Smoking Al taught me that... It works well for me and no meat drying out ... Smoking food is low and slow.... takes time but what else you gonna do...  Food cooks all by itself at that temp.....  

I would leave the 220 limit switch and finish stuff in the oven if it needed a higher temp....    That's what I'd do...


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## cajun joe (Jan 9, 2013)

You, know, Dave.  That WOULD be the common sense thing to do.  It's funny how that NEVER occurred to me. Seriously.  What an incredibly obvious solution.


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## cajun joe (Jan 9, 2013)

Stan,  thanks for the link to the PID... I will go with Dave's solution for a few weeks until the mrs. forgets how much I've spent already.  ;-)  Then I'm going with the flashing lights and fancy gadget!


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## smokin-aces (Jan 9, 2013)

If you don't mind me being nosey... how much do you have invested in this smoker?


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## cajun joe (Jan 9, 2013)

Actually, not much... In the actual smoker, only a little over $100.  

25 for the warmer... 65 or so for vents... 10-20 for miscellaneous nuts/bolts... 6 for a new on/off switch  

Now, you gotta think about it the way the Mrs. Does... Sausage stuffer cost, meat grinder cost, a hank of casings, a thermometer, smoke pistol, smoke bullets, a couple stainless oven racks, some stainless mixing trays, insulated gloves, 50-60 lbs of "practice" meat... Probably forgetting a couple other things, too. 

I came into this only since Christmas. :-/


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## dward51 (Jan 10, 2013)

Joe,

Do a search on the forum for "Auber PID".  You will find a lot of discussion on these along with photos and wiring examples from others who used them.

Here is their PID selection on their website. You will also find temp probes (you will need at least one of these to wire into the PID), and the SSR's on the same website.  You will need a heat sink for a SSR.  Prices are fairly decent, but you can sometimes do better on Ebay (just beware of Chinese junk).  Auber is a proven product line for this purpose.  There is one thread on here where a 2nd PID was used as a programmable high limit switch and 2nd reading of pit temp at element/fans.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

I've got a Omega controller I picked up for a song on ebay years ago and I recently aquired a McCall warmer/proofer similar to yours.  I just need to find the time to take it apart and rewire with the PID and SSR's.  I want to use a AMZNPS pellet tray or tube as my smoke source.  My heating element is not working, but I think it's disconnected.  Like I said, I just need to find time and take a stab at it.  Only structural change will be to add air intake and exhaust for smoke.

Here is some photos of the Omega controler I picked up and how the airflow in my cabinet will work.  I thought I had some photos of the McCall cabinet, but they were on my cell phone that died (and I forgot to take the SD card out when I swapped it out).













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__ dward51
__ Aug 8, 2012


















warmer conversion 1.jpg



__ dward51
__ Aug 26, 2012


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## cajun joe (Jan 17, 2013)

That looks a lot like my cabinet. I went in and replaced the high temp switch and inserted a 3/4 inch pipe 12 inches into the chamber from the top. My thinking is that it would get me into a little bit cooler area than having the thermostat sitting in the ceiling. 

I capped the pipe for looks, but it has too much mass and doesn't cool at the same rate as the air surrounding it. That led to 35 degree temp swings from top cutoff to on again.  I am able to get to 235 now which I think is perfect. I plan to remove the cap and see if hat helps. I suspect it will because air should move up and through. That ought to settle the thermostat and allow it to match the surrounding temp a bit better. 

I'm making 50# of sausage this weekend, so I hope I got it figured out. 

Here are a few pics of what I did... Except the pipe for the thermostat. I'll post a pic of that when I see my house in daylight again.

Interior with bars in place












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__ cajun joe
__ Jan 17, 2013





Exhaust port with baffle full close












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__ Jan 17, 2013





Exhaust port with baffle half open












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__ Jan 17, 2013





Exhaust port with baffle at full open












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__ Jan 17, 2013





Smoker view with smoke pistol attached












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__ Jan 17, 2013





Had to install a switch












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__ cajun joe
__ Jan 17, 2013






Next mod will be installing a light inside. :-)


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