# MES 30" not working after replacing element - help!



## husker3in4 (May 7, 2015)

It is a model # 20070910. I have had it for a couple of years and it worked wonderfully. Until, that is, it couldn't keep temp right in the middle of a smoke. I usually smoke at 225, when I went to put more wood chips in it about half way thru the smoke, it was at 160 degrees and wouldn't get much hotter. So I read about how the elements get drippings on them to the point they don't work anymore. I ordered a new one and followed the instructions to replace it this past February.

The whole process wasn't that difficult, although working the wiring into the back of the smoker and into the element was a bit tricky. In any case, I went to turn it on and the electronic panel on the top works as normal, but the element doesn't get hot. The electronic panel's little red "heating" light comes on, but the element doesn't get hot at all. Its really cold in the winter here and I figured Id wait until spring to pull it back out and mess with it again.

Has anyone else experienced this or can offer suggestions?

Here is a pic of the smoker so you know which one Im talking about. Its the one with the redesigned backing so you only have to take off a few screws around the wiring, you dont have to remove the whole back (that was an older model).













smoker.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ May 7, 2015


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## themule69 (May 7, 2015)

Contact Masterbuilt.

Happy smoken.

David


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## jted (May 7, 2015)

Just a tip. You might want to take the access panel off and see if the new element is getting voltage. if it is not you can tell that to the Master built folks when you speak to them. The controller of course determines the voltage out flow.   If you need a control panel they were available from Master built at a fair price . Let them tell you, you  need a new one then lobby for a free or reduced priced one.    Jted


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## husker3in4 (May 8, 2015)

By access panel you mean the little silver panel off the lower back, where the wires plug into the element? How am I able to tell if they are getting voltage or not?


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## daricksta (May 8, 2015)

Do you own a multimeter?


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## husker3in4 (May 8, 2015)

No but I am pretty sure a buddy of mine does. What is the proper voltage Im looking for?


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## sota d (May 8, 2015)

120 volts, more or less.


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## bmaddox (May 8, 2015)

husker3in4 said:


> No but I am pretty sure a buddy of mine does. What is the proper voltage Im looking for?


If you can't get a multi-meter than you can get a cheap current tester for $10 that will tell you whether or not there is current on the wire. I have one that simply lights up if current is present.


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## jted (May 8, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> If you can't get a multi-meter than you can get a cheap current tester for $10 that will tell you whether or not there is current on the wire. I have one that simply lights up if current is present.


This one is a few dollars more but it looks like it  is worth it.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbrande...-SearchPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-203073056-_-N

With these three tools you can perform all your tests.   Jted


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## husker3in4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Do I need a multimeter to just test the voltage, or is there something cheaper I can buy at walmart or wherever to just test the voltage? I really miss using this smoker. I have a newer model that works, just not nearly as well as this one used to.


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## daveomak (Aug 12, 2015)

If you get a fairly decent multi meter, you will use it forever....   the uses are endless... You can get temperature probes for them....  you can check your car, boat, motorcycle, dishwasher, dryer, hair dryer, fuses, household wiring.....    There are pamphlets that tell you how to use them that usually come with the meter...  If you get a really good one, you can check your "black box" while trolling for fish...   you can search for galvanic action that leads to corrosion....     I found a snap-on $300 meter for $90 at a pawn shop....


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## daricksta (Aug 13, 2015)

husker3in4 said:


> Do I need a multimeter to just test the voltage, or is there something cheaper I can buy at walmart or wherever to just test the voltage? I really miss using this smoker. I have a newer model that works, just not nearly as well as this one used to.


I bought a multimeter at Lowes a few years ago for $20. It came with a couple of extra things. But after all the time of having it I've only learned to test alkaline batteries and one wall circuit. Most other times I've tried using it I couldn't get any electrical values. Mine is a Greenlee and came with a piss-poor owners manual.


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## old sarge (Aug 13, 2015)

DaveOmak nailed it, even if you don't have a boat.  And there are plenty of "how to" sites on the internet, as well as books that can show you how to use the meter.  It is also good to have an idea of what is wrong with something before calling in a repairman. 

The link jted provided is well worth checking out. Besides a multimeter, I also own those same testers, or a variant. Real handy.


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## husker3in4 (Aug 24, 2015)

So I had a buddy come over and test it with his multimeter.. it showed continuity on the wires that plug into the element prongs, but when we plugged the smoker in to the wall and tested those same wires, we got little to no current. this was the result with the smoker plugged into the wall but not on, and with it plugged into the wall and trying to heat. I figured one of the wires from the control panel to the element was burnt out, so I drilled out the rivets on the back of the smoker and removed the backing to expose the wires. to my dismay, all the wires look fine.

So does this mean the problem lies in the control panel? It looks and appears to function normally. I also noticed a little box that is underneath the smoker, that one of the wires comes out of (that plugs into the element). I havent explored that box yet.

Any suggestions?













smoker.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Aug 24, 2015


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## daveomak (Aug 24, 2015)

Did you take the connectors apart and look at the actual wires and connections......


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## walta (Aug 24, 2015)

Was the red LED on the control panel lit?

Next on the back there is a box with 2 black wires check the wires inside the box if they look good disconnect one wire you should get 0 ohms between the two terminals.

If nothing there look on the bottom find the box drill it open. Look for bad connections.

Walta


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## husker3in4 (Aug 28, 2015)

Ive done the first 2 thinks, all looks good. The box on the bottom is next, what is in there anyway?


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## walta (Aug 29, 2015)

The bottom box contains a circuit board with a relay to control the heater and a 5 volt power supply.

  Walta


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## daveomak (Aug 29, 2015)

The box Walta is speaking of is on the bottom of the smoker... the floor of the smoke chamber...


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## walta (Aug 29, 2015)

Just to be clear the power supply and relay box is underneath the smoker. Turn the smoker upside down and you will see the box that is riveted closed.

Walta


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## texascoast (Sep 11, 2015)

Walta,

      Have you checked the, "Temperature Control Switch Thermostat", my heating element and the TCST went out at the same time.

This device is located inside in the small metal box attached high on the back of the unit, it is about the size of a dime with two contact points, the switch is a "Normally Closed" device.

The switch will open up if the temperature gets over about 300deg. in the unit. It is a one shot switch, once open it stays open!

    With your multi-meter you can check the TCST device, you should get continuity through this device, if not then it is bad. 

    I had the same issue on my unit, I replaced it with one I bought from Amazon, look for a "KSD301", 301 is the degrees Fahrenheit where the device will open.

Make sure your contact points on this device are in good shape, if they look rusty I recommend replacing the contacts with heavy duty contacts also.

How this helps!

John


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## husker3in4 (Sep 11, 2015)

Hey thanks for the input! Can you confirm your model is a 20070910? I ask because that temp switch thermostat isnt in a little box in my smoker, it just sitting there by itself, against the wall, near the upper left corner.

I suspected it when I first had this problem, but when I plug in the smoker, it registers the correct temp outside, so I figured it was ok. Is it still possible it is bad if it can accurately tell me what the temp outside is?

If I need to get that part, its cheap on amazon, thanks!  Is it hard to get out? or do you just unplug it , and plug the new one in?


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## texascoast (Sep 11, 2015)

My MES 30 model # 20070411, on my unit the temp switch is covered by a small little metal box on the back of unit. 

From the front inside of the unit you can see the "Face" of the temp unit with the two screws that hold it in place, it is High on the Right side.

You access the device by taking off the back of the MES smoker then you must remove two screws that hold the small metal box in place, then you will see the Temp Device and it two screws.

    You will see two black wires going to the temp unit, if the temp unit has operated, sorta like a fuse, the element will not work!

I suggest unplugging the temp device so you can check it's continuity, it is a normally closed device......


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## jted (Sep 11, 2015)

husker3in4 said:


> Hey thanks for the input! Can you confirm your model is a 20070910? I ask because that temp switch thermostat isnt in a little box in my smoker, it just sitting there by itself, against the wall, near the upper left corner.
> 
> I suspected it when I first had this problem, but when I plug in the smoker, it registers the correct temp outside, so I figured it was ok. Is it still possible it is bad if it can accurately tell me what the temp outside is?
> 
> If I need to get that part, its cheap on amazon, thanks!  Is it hard to get out? or do you just unplug it , and plug the new one in?





TexasCoast said:


> My MES 30 model # 20070411, on my unit the temp switch is covered by a small little metal box on the back of unit.
> 
> From the front inside of the unit you can see the "Face" of the temp unit with the two screws that hold it in place, it is High on the Right side.
> 
> ...


 Hi, TexasCoast's unit is a 411 It is set up the same , But mine is a 20070910. It is the same as yours and is in the same place as the 411. I looked at your picture and the box is not really as box but a metal cover . The one on the right side several inches from the center. It doe's have 2 black wires running to it One is the hot wire from the controller and the other goes directly to the element .

This device has nothing to do with the temperature control That is the other little probe you see from the inside.It is closer to center. By the way that needs to be cleaned regularly. The first switch simply cuts the current off if the box over heats.


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## texascoast (Sep 11, 2015)

Understand about KSD301 Device not affecting the internal temp. I was just stating that my MES went out completely when the KSD301 failed.

   I do a very simply clean around and on the Temp Probe you are talking about maybe once every three smokes or so...

   I upgraded the MES wiring to high temp and heaver gauge wire, this was based on someone else suggestion in the Forum.

I also used "Non Lead Solder" to solder the Heating Element wire contacts and the KSD301 wire contacts.

I put Spark Plug High Temp Boot grease on all wiring connection on the bottom of the unit while I was upgrading.

Not sure but these adjustments seemed to make the MES more "Stable" when I use it!.

Can you get a replacement for the MES Temp Probe?


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## husker3in4 (Nov 9, 2015)

So it was nice out on Sunday, I drilled out the little box on the bottom of the smoker, but it looks fine:













MES Gen 1 bottom.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Nov 9, 2015






I think the only thing I havent checked is the little box on the back of the smoker, to the right. I think someone in this thread said something about a fuse in there that might be blown.. Any suggestions?


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## texascoast (Nov 9, 2015)

Hey Husker3in4,

     I had the same problem when I replaced my heating element, the unit would not work!

I started trouble shooting by taking off the back of the unit and checking the wiring and all connections.

That is when I discovered the second problem.

On the back of the unit there is a small metal box that contains a "Temperature Control SwitchThermostat", it is a safety device which opens up if the unit get too hot.

Once the device operates it will not reengage, so I think of it as a safety fuse, it will need to be replaced.

    You can test it with a multimeter, unplug both wires that are hooked to it then check it for continuity with your meter.

The device is Normally Closed (NC).

   The device is called a KSD301, the 301 stands for the degree temperature where it will open.

   I ordered a replacement from Amazon, got 5 of them for under $10.

Amazon part #
[h1]5 Pcs KSD301 Temperature Control Switch Thermostat 150 Celsius N.C.[/h1]
   When you replace the Device make sure to check your wiring and the wiring connectors.

I upgraded my wiring and replaced the wiring connectors, I also soldered the wiring connectors onto the wiring and the devices like the element and the KSD301 just to make a better electrical connection! The wiring upgrade seemed to help keep the temperature more constant.....

I used Lead Free solder for this work!

Hope this helps!

Let me know if you have any more questions!

John


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## husker3in4 (Nov 10, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up. Since all the wires look fine, I can only assume the problem is with the thermostat as you described. I found the ones on Amazon you posted, but I don't have amazon prime, so I found it cheaper on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/381276462844

$7.50 delivered (would have been almost $12 on amazon with shipping). They look the same as the ones on amazon and are made by the same company. If I am simply replacing the thermostat, will I need to solder anything?


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## texascoast (Nov 10, 2015)

Husker3in4,

    No, you do not need to solder the Thermostat, but make sure you check the wire connectors are still good.

My connectors looked rusted so I replaced them, that is when I decided to upgrade the wiring and wiring connectors.

   The Solder just makes a better electrical connection that will makes the unit work better.

  Just my two cents on using solder on the wiring connectors:)

Have you checked the existing Thermostat, if it is bad it should show open on your multimeter! 

John


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## wa0auu (Nov 10, 2015)

sounds like a job for sparky !   I bet a lot of guys here have no idea what a multi meter is or how it works.  w Will be glad to help  direct email is   [email protected]


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## daricksta (Nov 10, 2015)

wa0auu said:


> sounds like a job for sparky !   I bet a lot of guys here have no idea what a multi meter is or how it works.  w Will be glad to help  direct email is   [email protected]


I might take you up on that. I've had a multimeter for about 4-5 years and all I can really do successfully is test the juice left in alkaline batteries. I've had mixed success in testing light and power switches or finding shorts in electrical stuff like ceiling lights.


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## wa0auu (Nov 10, 2015)

If it is time for a road trip, we would like to do it before the weather and the roads get bad   email me direct at     [email protected]     my brother and i can teach you, i am an electronic engineer


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## daricksta (Nov 11, 2015)

wa0auu said:


> If it is time for a road trip, we would like to do it before the weather and the roads get bad   email me direct at     [email protected]     my brother and i can teach you, i am an electronic engineer


If this was meant for me, I'll do that. I'll email you soon.


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## texascoast (Nov 11, 2015)

WA0AUU,

      Sounds like you need a Round Trip:)

      I've been using a multimeter since I was a kid, forget others may not have had that kind of fun growing up:)

     Have fun on you road trip, just don't forget your Multimeter:)


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## wa0auu (Nov 11, 2015)

SIr: THANK  YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE !  I was Navy for 25 years, now  please give me what information you have, have you double checked the connections ?     Have you plugged something else into that outlet to be sure the outlet is working ?, checked the breaker ? ( or fuse)     you may email me direct at   [email protected]   tell me what you have done    do you have an ohm meter and can you use it, if so remove all wires from the back of the new heating element and check the resistance end to end, it should be around 6 ohm because Ohms law tells us that resistance is volts divided by the current.  I think the label says  it is 15 amps and we know the volts is 110 so 110 divided by 15 is darn close to 6 ohms, I have seen new heating elements be bad, i had one on our smoker when it was new !  IF you can use the ohm meter, check the resistance from one end of the heating element to the metal box, do that on both ends of the heating element, there should not be any reading   let me know what you did and what you found

nothing like long distance trouble shooting !

The FCC has changed my ham radio call, long story but turns out they gave me the wrong call the first time I upgraded, I am now WØAUU   they dropped the first A


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## BGKYSmoker (Nov 11, 2015)

sorry cant help ya out.

My 40" went out last week, control board and element. Masterbuilt is stumped at both going out but want $300 to replace everything....Nope

Not even a year old yet.


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## husker3in4 (Nov 22, 2015)

So i got the Temperature Control Switch and installed it, but the problem is, it wont stay all the way out. It is screwed in on the backside, but the top of it keeps pushing back thru the back of the smoker. it is sitting flush against the smoker wall now, is that ok?

Secondly, I cant remember where the ground wire goes. I know it goes on the screw in the center of the heating element, but I dont remember where the wire runs.. like how it runs from the bottom to the heating element? Can one of you take the backplate off (where the wires plug into the element) so I can see if it plugs in on the outside of the metal shield, or on the inside? Or can someone advise?


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## wa0auu (Nov 22, 2015)

I am sorry, i am an old guy and need a little help, can you email me a good photo please   [email protected]  I might have an idea if I can see it

I think you are talking about the safety switch, right ?

ernie  ( I am an electronic engineer )


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## texascoast (Nov 23, 2015)

Husker3in4,

    I know exactly what you are talking about with the Temperature Control Switch (TCS) not staying inside of the smoker housing unit,

I had the same issue.

     I used some "J-B Weld" to "Cold Weld" the Temp Unit Part and its Flange part in the position I needed. Then I just reinstalled the TCS in the unit!

You will need to remove the TCS and apply the JB Weld, let it dry 24hrs then but it back in place.

  J-B Weld is a two part two-part epoxy  "Cold Weld" material that can be used on high temp engine blocks so it will work on the smoker, I know I am using it!

You can get it at most hardware or auto parts stores.

Your Ground wire question:

   One end of my ground wire attaches to the back plate the other end goes thru a hole to the inside of the unit and attaches to the ground wire of the units power cable.

Note:

    I have learned to take several pictures with my phone before I disconnect anything, I can then use the picture later to verify my reinstall!

Hope this helps!

John


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## husker3in4 (Nov 23, 2015)

Thanks for your help! I usually do take pics and/or video when I take something apart, but this seemed easy to remember since there aren't many parts. Problem is, I took it apart last february! I remember generally how it goes back together, just that pesky ground wire!

So I found the JB weld on walmarts website, there seems to be a red tube and a black tube, which tube do i use for this process? Also, does it make a difference if I use the JB Quick (assuming that means it dries quicker).

Ive taken some pics that I will attach.

This is the view from inside the smoker, looking at the temp control switch that seems to want to lay flush with the back wall instead of sticking out like it should:













20151122_184648.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Nov 23, 2015






*******

Here is the view of the heating element screwed in. I think I  have the screws going in the right direction:













20151122_184659.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Nov 23, 2015






*******

Here is the view from the back, you can see the ground wire coming up, and I have it wedged under the rubber attachment:













20151122_185338.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Nov 23, 2015






********

Close up of that same view, you can see how I had to turn the connector sideways, otherwise the screws to hold the element dont go in tightly.













20151122_185353.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Nov 23, 2015






A couple of things, the ground wire is a bit frayed, can I just tape it up with electrical tape? or do I need to even worry about it? The wire itself looks fine.

I think it got frayed from the metal cover that goes over the element connections, it pinches right at that spot. Or am i doing it wrong?


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## daveomak (Nov 23, 2015)

You might put a lug on the ground wire and secure it under the nut....  and wrap the frayed insulation or put heat shrink on it....  just so it looks professional...


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## texascoast (Nov 23, 2015)

Husker3in4,

     I used J-B Weld, 8265S, it comes with two tubes, one is black the other is white, you will need to mix equal parts from each tube.

Then apply the mix onto the two surfaces, set the position of the TCS and the Flange and let them dry for 24hours.

   Remember you are just trying to get the TCS to extend into the Smoker box so that it can get a good temperature reading for safety purposes.

I think the original TCS part extended something like 2-3 millimeters into the smoker unit. I would look at the original TCS you pulled from your unit to verify this...

Your Ground wire question:

    Electrical tape would probably not work for long because of the heat of the unit at that location!

    The main thing on the ground is the actual wire itself, if it looks good and the wire strands are not broken you should be good.

You can buy heat shrink tubing to cover the frayed wire covering to make it look "cleaner".

Have you actually tried to see if the Smoker with the new TCS installed will come on and heat up?


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## wa0auu (Nov 23, 2015)

What you are calling a temp control switch is really just a safety, if the smoker gets over what ever the temp that switch is set for, it " opens" and will turn the smoker off, that smoker will work without that.  In a pinch you could just put the two wires together.  In the refrigeration game, that safety switch is known as a " clicks on " ( I have done my own refrigeration work work many years )


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## husker3in4 (Nov 25, 2015)

I went to my local walmart to check out the JB Weld, they had several kinds, but the standard JB Weld was, of course, out of stock.

Do I need that specific kind, or will the JB KWIK or one of these others work?













JB Weld.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Nov 25, 2015


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## texascoast (Nov 25, 2015)

Husker3in4,

      I have never used any of the other J-B Weld products!

    Whatever you use it will need to be one that works with "High Temperature areas".

I would imagine the ones for plastic would not work....

You might try an Auto parts store, the version I use can be used on engine blocks or radiators.


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## husker3in4 (Nov 25, 2015)

Ok, no worries. Ill find the regular stuff at another walmart or at an auto parts store. Once I get it "Cold welded", does it matter how I connect the wires? As in,  is there a positive or negative side i need to pay attention to?


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## texascoast (Nov 25, 2015)

No, the wire connection is not an issue with the TCS device, remember it acts like a temperature fuse, if the internal Temp of the smoker unit gets over about 301deg Fahrenheit the TCS will open up and the unit will stop working!

   Just make sure your TCS wire connections are very clean and good, all current to the heating element goes through this device!

This is where I used "Lead free Solder" once I crimped the wire connectors onto the TCS.


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## husker3in4 (Nov 25, 2015)

Ok, I should be able to handle this part pretty well, most likely will get to it tomorrow or friday. the other question was the ground wire. Can you look at the pic below and tell me if this is how yours is attached to the heating element?













LL.jpg



__ husker3in4
__ Nov 25, 2015






The metal plate would then go over this, then the rubber cover. I just want to make sure the wire is going in correctly.


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## texascoast (Nov 25, 2015)

Ok, mine looks a little different!

As you can see mine has a small metal box where the Ground wire and the two wires for the Heating Element come together.

  You will see the ground wire nut in the center of box (a piece of white paper behind it) it exits the small metal box with one of the black power wires. It then connects to the power cord of the unit.

   The Power wire have crimp on connectors which have been soldered in place, then I used heat shrink tubing to protect the connections.













image1.JPG



__ texascoast
__ Nov 25, 2015


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## husker3in4 (Nov 25, 2015)

Well actually urs looks very similar to mine, I just dont have the back plate on when I took the picture. Can you confirm which model you have? It should be printed on a silver plate on the back outside wall of the smoker body.

Mine is # 2070910


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## texascoast (Nov 25, 2015)

My MES model # is 20070411, 30", with Glass front door!


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## husker3in4 (Aug 31, 2018)

Im only reviving this in case someone has the same problem. Mine is now solved and I have been smoking with it for the past couple of months. The problem was in fact the little round temperature shutoff sensor that shuts off if the smoker gets too hot. Once it trips the smoker wont work anymore until you replace it. Im not sure if the element acted up to trip the switch or what, but in the process it fried the wire that went from the safety temp shutoff sensor to the element. So, to make a long story short, I replaced the temp shutoff sensor (can get em cheap at amazon.. think it was less than $5 for 2) and replaced the wire that fried with hi temp wire and now it works like a charm. If anyone needs help with their issue, I can try to help and provide the part and link if I can find it.


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