# first time belly smoke



## jimalbert (Nov 27, 2011)

I hate to ask you all too many questions, but this time I need some expert advise.  I am planning on doing my first bacon smoke, some in brine, some with a dry cure.  I plan on following bearcarvers method, but the problem is I couldn't find tender quick anywhere local.  I stopped at my local butcher where I buy all of my casings, high temp cheese, etc., to get some curing salt.  He gave me a pack of tinted curing salt that is good for 25 pounds.  It says use 1 oz per 25lb of meat or poultry.  Use 1 level teaspoon per 3 pounds of meat or poultry.  I would assume that following these directions are the best option, however it just seems that 1 teaspoon is a little light.  Also, I wouldn't need to add any additional salt with this cure correct?  I plan to add 1 tablespoon of brown sugar per pound of belly also.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

Jim


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## roller (Nov 27, 2011)

You can order TQ from the Mortons website...


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## alblancher (Nov 27, 2011)

Jim,

The first thing you have to find out is what the cure is.  If it is Cure 1 we can help you.  Call the butcher and find out what it is.

The second thing I would recommend is to purchase a small digital scale so you can weigh your cures

Third,  you will not use the same amount of cure for dry cure, for brine or as a replacement for TQ.  Remember do not use a recipe with TQ and substitute Cure 1.  They are not the same


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## alblancher (Nov 27, 2011)

Oh and by the way

When learning how to use cures you HAVE TO ASK lots of questions.  Cures can be poisonous if improperly used.

Just ask, we love to help

Al


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## jimalbert (Nov 27, 2011)

OK so the cure has no name on it.  Ingredients: Salt, Sodium Nitrite 6.25%, 0.00045% FDC Red #40 added as a safety tint.  Keep out reach of children.  There is a number beside the "Tinted curing salt" on the label - 31811.  It is a light brownish orange pack.  I have used this for beef sticks before, but I assumed that curing salt was curing salt (except for the fact that each curing salt may require different amounts).

I could take a pic of the pack if that would help.


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## pit 4 brains (Nov 27, 2011)

jimalbert said:


> OK so the cure has no name on it.  Ingredients: Salt, Sodium Nitrite 6.25%, 0.00045% FDC Red #40 added as a safety tint.  Keep out reach of children.  There is a number beside the "Tinted curing salt" on the label - 31811.  It is a light brownish orange pack.  I have used this for beef sticks before, but I assumed that curing salt was curing salt (except for the fact that each curing salt may require different amounts).
> 
> I could take a pic of the pack if that would help.


That would help, but like Al said, find out from the butcher.

If this is your first bacon, then I would *HIGHLY *suggest using a brine. Brines are simple to make and use, but you need to know what cure you have. Is the curing salt pink?

Ask as many questions as needed until you are really comfortable with using cures. Doing a little research on the chemistry of curing will help too..


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## jimalbert (Nov 27, 2011)

I did not open the pack.  However I just looked at the instacure package online and the ingredients and the measurements are the same.  And from what I gather from a bit more research is that all "pink curing salt" contains the same amount of sodium nitrate.  I will open and let you guys know.

Jim


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## jimalbert (Nov 27, 2011)

It has a slight pink tint but more white.  I would assume that with the same amount of sodium nitrate that It cant be that different.

Jim


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## alblancher (Nov 27, 2011)

You have Cure 1

If you don't mind doing a dry cure look in the Wiki section and use the Dry Cured Bacon Calculator with instructions.  It will walk you through the process.  There are also many brine recipes that you can look up.   Brines can be faster but they do produce a different product then the dry cure procedure.  

As mentioned earlier please do not substitute Cure 1 for Tender Quick.

You have time so please pick up a scale and use it.  Also read through some of the other Bacon threads and familiarize yourself with the different cure procedures

There is no Sodium Nitrate in Cure 1.  Sodium Nitrate is not approved by the USDA for Bacon curing but is found in TQ and commonly used by members of the forum.  Sodium Nitrite is the curing agent in Cure1. 

Ask if you have questions,  Good Luck,

Al


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## jimalbert (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks for the advice.  I weighed out the proper amounts of the cure and hit the slab with it.  I had a 12 pound slab, 6 pounds of that I did a brine, and the other 6 i did a dry cure.  I have pics of the dry cure I will post shortly.  I will massage them each day for 9 days and then smoke as low as I can go with hickory.  I will be butchering pigs in Feb, so I am hoping these will hold me off until then.  I actually think I paid a bit much for the pork belly, 2.95 a pound, but It looks pretty good.












Dont mind the bottle of home made peach wine in the background :)

Thanks,

Jim


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## alblancher (Nov 27, 2011)

Jim,

Looks good so far.  I have about a dozen peach trees, maybe you can post the directions on the peach wine!


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## SmokinAl (Nov 28, 2011)

Looks good so far Jim!


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## Bearcarver (Nov 28, 2011)

Now you really screwed up, Jim !!!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Once you make your own Bacon, you'll never go back to store bought !!!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Join the gang!

Looks good so far!!

Bear


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## sound1 (Nov 28, 2011)

I see another bacon fanatic in the making...I just did a maple sugar and TQ dry cure flavor test...tis fun to compare.


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## oldthymer (Nov 28, 2011)

alblancher said:


> Brines can be faster but they do produce a different product then the dry cure procedure.




I have always used a brine so I am wondering what the difference is in the end product.


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## 2salty (Nov 28, 2011)

Might have cost a little extra, but that's a perfect looking slab!


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## alblancher (Nov 28, 2011)

OldThymer

That's a good question and I am sure there are many different opinions.  I have found that the dry cure bacon I produce has less salt, less moisture so it tends to be firmer and in my opinion the flavors are more concentrated. 

Kind of compare it to the dry cured hams or brine cured hams readily available in the supermarket.  Notice I didn't say either was better, just different.  Why not give it a try next time you do bacon and let us know what you find out.


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## jimalbert (Nov 28, 2011)

Fanatic????  I am way beyond that point.  I get crazy about anything I do, This year alone I did about 125 gallons of wine, shine, etc.  And this smoking thing just keeps me content.  I have a GOSM that my dad bought me years ago that I love, but I wanted something to smoke a bit slower, and little known to me, my boss gave me a 200 dollar cabelas card for helping him out with a generator hookup (Im licensed).  So i went and bought a masterbuilt 30" at cabelas last week.  Hopefully it pans out, but I can say that I smoked a turkey in it for thanksgiving, and I was pretty pleased with the constant temperature from the electric.  Im sure a cold smoke house is in the works for the future.  I am going to try some canadian bacon in the next week.  As far as the cure goes, I would like to stay with something that I can get locally, and If I follow the directions on any type of cure, i should be fine correct?  I mean, Im going to follow bearcarvers cb recipe and he uses tenderquick, but I would like to use the stuff I have and can get in the wimp of an eye.  Am I correct in saying that?

Thanks for all the help guys,

Jim


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## Bearcarver (Nov 28, 2011)

jimalbert said:


> Fanatic????  I am way beyond that point.  I get crazy about anything I do, This year alone I did about 125 gallons of wine, shine, etc.  And this smoking thing just keeps me content.  I have a GOSM that my dad bought me years ago that I love, but I wanted something to smoke a bit slower, and little known to me, my boss gave me a 200 dollar cabelas card for helping him out with a generator hookup (Im licensed).  So i went and bought a masterbuilt 30" at cabelas last week.  Hopefully it pans out, but I can say that I smoked a turkey in it for thanksgiving, and I was pretty pleased with the constant temperature from the electric.  Im sure a cold smoke house is in the works for the future.  I am going to try some canadian bacon in the next week.  As far as the cure goes, I would like to stay with something that I can get locally, and If I follow the directions on any type of cure, i should be fine correct?  I mean, Im going to follow bearcarvers cb recipe and he uses tenderquick, but I would like to use the stuff I have and can get in the wimp of an eye.  Am I correct in saying that?
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys,
> 
> Jim


Jim,
I get my Tender Quick at "Wegman's" in Allentown.

I think it's around $5 for a 2 pound bag.

You have a Wegman's up there?

Bear


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## oldthymer (Nov 28, 2011)

alblancher said:


> OldThymer
> 
> That's a good question and I am sure there are many different opinions.  I have found that the dry cure bacon I produce has less salt, less moisture so it tends to be firmer and in my opinion the flavors are more concentrated.
> 
> Kind of compare it to the dry cured hams or brine cured hams readily available in the supermarket.  Notice I didn't say either was better, just different.  Why not give it a try next time you do bacon and let us know what you find out.




I may have to do that.  The brine I use has very little salt in it and never requires a soak in fresh water.  It also is much less salty than any store bought bacon you can find.  It was given to me many years ago by a butcher and is very similar to the Pops brine I see floating around.  It does seem to add moisture to the bacon and the bacon tends to shrink a bit when you fry it.  I can only assume that is due to the brine.


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## jimalbert (Nov 28, 2011)

no, i dont have a wegmans close, but the next time i get to allentown ill make sure to stop at wegmans and pick up like 10 packs!Q!!!!!!!!  :)


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## jimalbert (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks very much bearcarver BTW

Jim


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## sound1 (Nov 29, 2011)

jimalbert said:


> Fanatic????  I am way beyond that point.  I get crazy about anything I do, This year alone I did about 125 gallons of wine, shine, etc.  And this smoking thing just keeps me content.  I have a GOSM that my dad bought me years ago that I love, but I wanted something to smoke a bit slower, and little known to me, my boss gave me a 200 dollar cabelas card for helping him out with a generator hookup (Im licensed).  So i went and bought a masterbuilt 30" at cabelas last week.  Hopefully it pans out, but I can say that I smoked a turkey in it for thanksgiving, and I was pretty pleased with the constant temperature from the electric.  Im sure a cold smoke house is in the works for the future.  I am going to try some canadian bacon in the next week.  As far as the cure goes, I would like to stay with something that I can get locally, and If I follow the directions on any type of cure, i should be fine correct?  I mean, Im going to follow bearcarvers cb recipe and he uses tenderquick, but I would like to use the stuff I have and can get in the wimp of an eye.  Am I correct in saying that?
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys,
> 
> Jim


Another sparky..that explains the fanatic thing.  You can't go wrong with Bear's CB recipe, it tastes great. I have one curing now but trying the maple sugar changeover for it...Syrup is ridiculously expensive around here and it worked great on a batch of BBB.

While visiting one of my kids stationed in Ft. Knox, I met an old guy that gave us some of his shine made from his great grandpas still and recipe...my wife has chosen my next build,
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  the still


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## jimalbert (Nov 29, 2011)

Yes... Its all addicting.  Still's are quite easy to do.  I have some really good plans if your interested in them.  Except for the 3" copper its not too bad.  There are alot of links I have to sites where you can buy a evap tower that screws onto a beer keg also.  Many people love them.  I dont make shine for straight purposes (except for the occasional out of control party) but we have an old "coalcracker" drink here in the area called boilo and it is lemons, oranges, cinnamon, caraway, alot of other spices, and the only true way to make it is with shine.  So you either gotta fork out the big bucks for it or make your own.


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## sound1 (Nov 29, 2011)

The 3" copper is a big $$ hit...this guy's is a pot still, solid copper and HUGE. he double/triple runs for what he wants. Bet the thing would get $20k ++ in scrap copper prices alone...

I'm looking at building a reflux model, probably 3" x 4-5 feet, stuffed with copper "pot scrubbers" ...have not decided on what I want to go with for heat..but thats a discussion for another thread/forum...LOL


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## michael ark (Nov 29, 2011)

Making and operating a still is illegal .That being said here is a great link to make a distillation apparatus for water purification 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





.http://www.moonshine-still.com/


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## oldthymer (Nov 29, 2011)

It is legal in many states provided it is for personal use and not for sale. I believe it is illegal at the federal level but that really doesn't matter unless you are selling it.


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## SmokinAl (Nov 29, 2011)

How did this thread get from bacon to moonshine, 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





, although even the sausage maker, http://www.sausagemaker.com/  sells a book on how to make moonshine.


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## alblancher (Nov 29, 2011)

Yea,

Lets get back on Bacon.

I don't know where you would start a moonshine thread but I would guess the homebrew area would possibly be a better place.  That way people with more experience making alcohol and the legalities of it can participate.

Thanks

Al


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## michael ark (Nov 29, 2011)

That a very good book you recommended AL.It has a detailed list to make a copper pot still.It also has recipes to make different liquors.


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## aceofspd (Nov 30, 2011)

Why does everyone use TQ, isn't it just Cure 1 added to plain salt. The pink color helps when mixing with salt. The amount of cure will change with the method of use. Mixing into ground meat will use the least, rubbing on the meat will use more, and making a brine will use much more.

For bacon I always use the recipe in "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing"

Just last night I rubbed a belly with 1 cup salt mixed with 4 tbs pink salt. Then covered with 2 cups raw honey. In the fridge for 4 or 5 days, then smoke at 140 degrees to IT of 128 degrees.

I have found that scraping with a sharp knife after rinsing, really lowers the salt taste.

I plan on posting some pics this weekend.

Again, I highly recommend "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing". It is in most libraries, so there is no need to buy it, but you will want your own copy.

MMMMM bacon!


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## fpnmf (Nov 30, 2011)

>>>>>>>Why does everyone use TQ, isn't it just Cure 1 added to plain salt.  -----   NO!

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/109368/more-easy-made-bacon-with-q-view#post_666451


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## tjohnson (Nov 30, 2011)

aceofspd said:


> Why does everyone use TQ, isn't it just Cure 1 added to plain salt. The pink color helps when mixing with salt. The amount of cure will change with the method of use. Mixing into ground meat will use the least, rubbing on the meat will use more, and making a brine will use much more.
> 
> For bacon I always use the recipe in "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing"
> 
> ...


Not "Everyone" uses TQ

My first few batches of bacon were cured with Morton's TQ,  It worked well, but I wanted to control the amount of salt, so I now use a recipe that uses Cure #1.

No, TQ is not just Cure #1 added to salt.  It's nitrites and a very small amount of nitrates added to salt, using a method to evenly distribute the nitrites and nitrates throughout.

Cure #1 is Nitrites that have been added to salt and a red food coloring is added to distinguish it from regular salt.

Cure #1 and Morton's TQ are not interchangeable at the same quantities in a recipe.

Todd


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## aceofspd (Dec 1, 2011)

I seem to be misunderstood as checking all your links and advise, TQ is cure with extra salt and sugar. It might technically be closer to Cure #2, but nitrates are for extended drying times and not necessary for bacon. Quote: "Unlike cure #1, you don't use any additional salt when making sausage." Maybe because it has extra salt added?

 

My question is why you would go out of your way to get TQ, when you already have Cure #1. It reminds me of buying premixed antifreeze, marginally more convenient but much more expensive.

TJ, please be careful about decreasing the salt in your cures.The salt creates osmotic pressure that pulls the cure into the meat and draws the moisture out. Sugars add to this effect.


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## alblancher (Dec 1, 2011)

Aceofspd

I am a big proponent of using simple cures and an advocate of using Cure1 especially when you intend to bring the meat to frying temperatures.   

I can't give you numbers, without some research, as to the amount of salt required to create sufficient osmotic pressure to move the cure into the product.  I don't think any of us are starting with pure Sodium nitrite and making our own cure mixes.  We start with Cure 1, a cure mix, 1 part sodium nitrite and 15 parts salt.  The Cure1 mix used alone in the proper amounts is sufficient to make safe, good tasting bacon.  Any additional salt we add to the cure mix is strictly for flavoring and if dry curing to assist in drying the belly.  Like you said, Sugar will also help pull moisture from bacon and I have found that the reduced humidity of the family refrigerator also goes a long way to drying the green bacon.

Many members use TQ because they have success with it.  Their recipes call for TQ and why mess with a good recipe?  When trying to make a lower salt bacon most of use will use Cure 1 and control the amount of additional salt we add..


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## jimalbert (Dec 5, 2011)

I also would like to continue using the #1 I have readily available.  I will however try to get some Morton's tenderquick because bearcarver has a lot of good recipes all using tq.  I used his bacon recipe for the cure except I substituted cure #1 for the tenderquick (not interchangeably), but used the directions on the cure for proper amounts.  The only thing that I wonder about is the time used to cure, because he cured his for 9 days with tenderquick, so should I be curing for 9 days with cure #1?  I am not in a rush to smoke this, I actually was planning on smoking on Friday which would be more than 9 days, but I have off that day, so i could more easily tend the smoker.  I am just concerned that it will be too salty with 9 days of #1 on it.  My butcher said he only cures his bacon like 3 days, then off to the cold smoker.  What is everyone's thought's?

Thanks,

Jim


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## alblancher (Dec 5, 2011)

Cure 1 does everything it is going to do in 3 days at normal refrigerator temps.  I would say 4 days is better.  Always allow at least 3 days from the application of the cure.  I make 3 applications of cure (when I do dry cure)on 3 day intervals.    The extra time after the min 3 days is for flavor equalization.   The longer you wet brine the more salt you can pickup if you extend the cure time.  People that dry cure limit the amount of salt they apply and do not have that problem

When I am trying to dry out my bacon I will leave it in the fridge, lightly wrapped in saran on a cooling rack to draw moisture for up to 10 days after the final cure application. If you apply sugar and spices the "rest" time allows the spices to be absorbed by the bacon.


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## jimalbert (Dec 5, 2011)

Thanks for all of the info alblancher.  I cured it last Sunday night .... so.... 11/27.  Followed the directions on the cure for amount, and then used 2 tablespoons of brown sugar for each 3 pound piece.  When I do my Canadian bacon, I think I will do the same thing.  Follow the cure amount on the package and then just use some brown sugar.

Thanks Again,

Jim


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## alblancher (Dec 5, 2011)

Glad to have you with us and hope see lots of Qview of your bacon projects


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## jimalbert (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks.  I appreciate it.  Well here goes.  I dry cured my pork belly with #1 and brown sugar for 7 days.  Removed from the bags that were in the fridge, soaked in ice water for 1/2 hour.  Cut a few test slices, and fried them up.  Virtually no salt at all.  I actually would have liked it a bit saltier.  Threw some garlic powder, onion powder, and black pepper on them, and let them rest on the smoker racks in the fridge over night.  Next day set my Masterbuilt Electric 30" (I would assume that is what MES 30 means when people refer to it on this site) for 110*.  I maintained a temp of 114 for about 12 hours, unfortunately, I had a hard time keeping the wood smoking at that temp so I think I need to invest in one of the smoker trays that Todd has.  I smoked with Hickory and Mesquite.  It did have a good smokey flavor, but I wish I would have lit the smoker hot for an hour or so and then dropped the temp back down to 110 when the wood was good and hot.  Anyhow, It does taste very good and I think it was my first successful dry bacon cure/smoke.  I will post a few pics for you.

After 7 days of cure:







Going into the smoker:







Out of the smoker 1:







Another View when it came out of the smoker:







I will take some pics when I slice and get them up.  Let me know your thoughts.  And once again, thanks for all of the help guys.

Jim


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## alblancher (Dec 9, 2011)

Looks great,  thanks for the Qview


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## diesel (Dec 9, 2011)

I order all my stuff from butcherpacker.com and I started curing meats when I read the book Charcuterie. There bacon recipe in there is fantastic.  If you really like to cure meats than get this book.  After I cure the bacon for about a week I then smoke it at around 130 to 150 degrees for around 5 or so hours.  Usually tell it hit 150 degrees internal temp.

I have stopped buying it in the store also.  I would also recommend getting a fresh pig belly if you have any local farmers.  That is even better.

thanks for sharing the picts.


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