# MES Rewire Simple Guide - No Back Removal Needed!!!



## tallbm

Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.

*Disclaimer:*  When messing with electrical equipment it is best to consult a local electrical professional to ensure things are done correctly.  Be safe and use caution.  I am not an electrician and with many things you hear or read, it is your responsibility to verify the information's validity and ensure you and others are safe.

Ok now on to rewiring info :)

*Smoker Referenced Below:*

MES 40 Gen1
*Tools and Equipment (at a Minimum):*

A strong back or a 2nd body to help pick up the smoker and set on a table to be worked on
Waist High Table - to put the smoker onto
Needle Nose Plyers
Wire Crimping Tool - one that crimps, strips, and cuts wires
14-16 AWG Butt Connectors, or Wire Nuts
Drill
1/8" Drill Bit that can drill metal - to drill out circuit board rivets 
#12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fastener to refasten circuit board panel back on after rivets are removed.  3/4" long may also be good for this one panel but MAY be a little short.  I used 3/4" because that is what I used when pulled the back off my MES
Drill Bit to drive the sheet metal screws (I used hex head fasteners but you may find hex + phillips head)
Masking Tape/Electrical Tape - some kind of tape that can be used to mark a wire. U need no more than 1 inch worth













missing-product



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017






*Quick Explanation of the Process:*

The rewire is actually very simple and *does NOT require removing the back of the MES*.  What is being done is the following:

Take existing MES wiring and disconnecting it from the MES circuit board the controller is connected to
Connect Hot wire that comes from MES plug, to Hot wire that leads to the safety Roll out Limit Switch & Heating Element
Connect the Neutral wire that comes from the MES plug, to the Neutral wire that leads to the Heating element
Done!
When done, the MES controller will be bypassed and will receive no electricity.  Also the safety mechanism (safety roll out limit switch) will still do it's job and cut off power to the heating element should the heat limit be exceeded.  The switch will auto reset after a while and when it does electricity will again be able to flow to the heating element.

IMPORTANT: If you plug the rewired MES into the wall there is NOTHING to control the electricity to the element.  If plugged in, the MES will simply just suck electricity and heat up as a dumb circuit.  This is why a 3rd party controller like a PID controller is needed.

The PID controller will control the on/off flow of electricity to the heating element according to the set temperature and the temp the PID controller is reading with a probe from within the smoker.

*Simple Rewire Steps:*

The process should really take between 30 minutes and 2 hours based on how you work, preperation, and confidence/comfort level with the tools and the process.

UNPLUG the MES!!!! 
Get the MES up on a table laying flat on it's back or on the front.  If you lay it on the front (what I did) be sure not to break the glass window in the door... just use caution
Using the 1/8" drill bit and a drill, drill out the rivets on the bottom panel of the MES.  

The bottom panel is identified by the green square, everything outside of the green square is irrelevant for this step.
The red arrows identify some rivets on the PANEL.  ONLY drill out the panel rivets inside the green square, NOT the rivets outside the green square.













circuitPanel.png



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017






You should see an image similar to the one below but it may be slightly different.  Don't worry if it is slightly different because we will be able to easily identify the wires.













openedPannel.png



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017






Use your hand or the Needle Nose Plyers to disconnect the wires listed below:
Plug Hot Wire - Smooth Black color wire
Plug Neutral Wire - Smooth White color wire
Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element Hot Wire - Black Braided wire
Heating Element Neutral Wire - Black Braided wire - yes looks just like wire #3













numberedWires.png



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017







IMPORTANT:  Ignore any other tiny wires that may come out of the upper right hole of the compartment.  These can be any color (black, green, white, white braided wire, etc.).  *They will be noticeably thinner than the real wires!*













ignore1.png



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017





 
Identify and use a piece of tape Label the black braided wires:
Heating Element NEUTRAL Black Braided wire - Comes out of upper LEFT hole
Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element HOT Black Braided wire comes out of the upper RIGHT hole

The key here is to identify the hole that the wire comes out of.  Use a piece of tape to flag the wires for quick identification.  If you accidentally splice the wires it should be OK and all should still work safely and fine.  The thing is the wiring is not TECHNICALLY accurate which may lead to some confusion about which wire goes where.














braidedHoles.png



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017







Cut and splice wires together.  Use butt connectors, wire nuts, or any electrical connectors to splice the wires.  JUST BE SURE that the connections are tight!!! You want no wiggle between the connection because that causes resistance and resistance causes heat and that will burn up the wire, wiring, etc. which is bad!












numberedWires.png



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017





 
Connect wires #1 and #3.  Notice they should both come out of the upper right hole/port.













DSC_0303[1].JPG



__ tallbm
__ May 6, 2017






Connect wires #2 and #4.  Notice the white wire comes out of the upper right hole/port and the black braided wire comes out of the upper left hole/port.  The pic is bad so I tried to erase extra wires and used a Green line to trace the wire and connections.  I hope it gives the proper visual.













neutralRewire.png



__ tallbm
__ Aug 19, 2017








 

When all wired up it should look like the image below:













DSC_0302[1].JPG



__ tallbm
__ May 6, 2017






Use the sheet metal screws to fasten the panel back on through the rivet holes.
Safely put the smoker back on the ground
Open the smoker door and plug in the MES to the wall outlet.  You should feel that it is heating and if you leave it on long enough you will see the element start turning color showing heat.
Well that is it.  This approach is about as simple as it gets to rewire a Gen1 MES.  Now every MES generation and model may be a little different but the idea for rewiring is still the same.

*Additional Rewire Considerations*:

This post is simply showing how to rewire for a 3d party controller to be used, BUT it does not address some week points of the MES wiring.  I will note some improvements that should be considered because they are common issues with the MES that you will likely run into an need to fix at some point.

Replace the Heating Element connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors - the MES uses poor electrical connectors on the wires that connect to the heating element.  They don't seem to be able to stand up to the heat of the element very well and corrode easily.  Mine showed signs of corrosion after 3 months of use!!!  Google the following connectors as good replacement options:  
Supco T1111c (typical female spade), or Supco T1113c (flag style female spade)

Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection. 
 
Replace the Safety Rollout Limit Switch connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors  - as stated above the connectors that MES uses are poor and corrode easily.  The connectors here suffere the same issue.
The big issue is that most MES smokers do not have a panel to access the rollout limit switch.  In this case, you must remove the back of the MES to get to the rollout limit switch
Consider cutting and creating a panel to access this switch in the future
The rollout limit switch is a little delicate so if you happen to damage it go to Amazon and search for:  KSD301  for replacement switches should you knock a tab loose or bend it or damage it in any way.


Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection. 

Best of luck guys and remember to be safe and enjoy smoking! :)


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## dr k

Great!  I've got this thread saved. You sure saved us a lot of time on an Ohm meter finding continuity at each ends of the wires. :points:
-Kurt


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## tallbm

Dr K said:


> Great! I've got this thread saved. You sure saved us a lot of time on an Ohm meter finding continuity at each ends of the wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Kurt


I'm glad you found it helpful :)

What you mention is the most accurate and least intrusive way to go about things.  You disconnect the wires from the heating element and from the board.  Then put a multi meter on the ends of each wire from the circuit board to the rollout limit switch to the wires in the heating element panel and find all the matching ends and label the wires.  

That is basically what I did on my 2nd rewire job.  On my 1st MES rewire I took the back off and pulled up every single wire because I wanted to be 100% sure.  With that under my belt, I just multimeter'ed the wires/ends for the 2nd MES and confirmed where the wires led to and from in comparison to my 1st MES rewire  My 1st MES rewire was a Gen2 and the 2nd MES rewire was a Gen1 and everything I posted above holds true across the two models I have worked with :)

If the pics above do not look anything like what an MES is showing then I would definitely go back to the multimeter checks... BUT that is not what this post is about.  This post is the simple way for probably 90% of the cases people with an MES will run into :)


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## cmayna

Very nice and detailed writeup. Hope others who are in need to work on their MES will take notes from this thread.


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## SmokinAl

Great explanation!

Thank you for taking the time to write this up!!







   Al


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## johnnyb54

Nice write up!


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## tallbm

cmayna said:


> Very nice and detailed writeup. Hope others who are in need to work on their MES will take notes from this thread.


Thanks, I hope it helps some folks out in the future :)


SmokinAl said:


> Great explanation!
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to write this up!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al


Thanks Al.  I had been meaning to do this post but just got lazy with it.  I still have some more posts I intend to do but we will see what time permits :)


johnnyb54 said:


> Nice write up!


Thanks.  I hope it really helps some people out or at least educates them some :)


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## hooked on smoke

tallbm said:


> Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.
> 
> *Disclaimer:*  When messing with electrical equipment it is best to consult a local electrical professional to ensure things are done correctly.  Be safe and use caution.  I am not an electrician and with many things you hear or read, it is your responsibility to verify the information's validity and ensure you and others are safe.
> 
> Ok now on to rewiring info :)
> 
> *Smoker Referenced Below:*
> 
> MES 40 Gen1
> *Tools and Equipment (at a Minimum):*
> 
> A strong back or a 2nd body to help pick up the smoker and set on a table to be worked on
> Waist High Table - to put the smoker onto
> Needle Nose Plyers
> Wire Crimping Tool - one that crimps, strips, and cuts wires
> 14-16 AWG Butt Connectors, or Wire Nuts
> Drill
> 1/8" Drill Bit that can drill metal - to drill out circuit board rivets
> #12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fastener to refasten circuit board panel back on after rivets are removed.  3/4" long may also be good for this one panel but MAY be a little short.  I used 3/4" because that is what I used when pulled the back off my MES
> Drill Bit to drive the sheet metal screws (I used hex head fasteners but you may find hex + phillips head)
> Masking Tape/Electrical Tape - some kind of tape that can be used to mark a wire. U need no more than 1 inch worth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> missing-product
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Quick Explanation of the Process:*
> 
> The rewire is actually very simple and *does NOT require removing the back of the MES*.  What is being done is the following:
> 
> Take existing MES wiring and disconnecting it from the MES circuit board the controller is connected to
> Connect Hot wire that comes from MES plug, to Hot wire that leads to the safety Roll out Limit Switch & Heating Element
> Connect the Neutral wire that comes from the MES plug, to the Neutral wire that leads to the Heating element
> Done!
> When done, the MES controller will be bypassed and will receive no electricity.  Also the safety mechanism (safety roll out limit switch) will still do it's job and cut off power to the heating element should the heat limit be exceeded.  The switch will auto reset after a while and when it does electricity will again be able to flow to the heating element.
> 
> IMPORTANT: If you plug the rewired MES into the wall there is NOTHING to control the electricity to the element.  If plugged in, the MES will simply just suck electricity and heat up as a dumb circuit.  This is why a 3rd party controller like a PID controller is needed.
> 
> The PID controller will control the on/off flow of electricity to the heating element according to the set temperature and the temp the PID controller is reading with a probe from within the smoker.
> 
> *Simple Rewire Steps:*
> 
> The process should really take between 30 minutes and 2 hours based on how you work, preperation, and confidence/comfort level with the tools and the process.
> 
> UNPLUG the MES!!!!
> Get the MES up on a table laying flat on it's back or on the front.  If you lay it on the front (what I did) be sure not to break the glass window in the door... just use caution
> Using the 1/8" drill bit and a drill, drill out the rivets on the bottom panel of the MES.
> 
> The bottom panel is identified by the green square, everything outside of the green square is irrelevant for this step.
> The red arrows identify some rivets on the PANEL.  ONLY drill out the panel rivets inside the green square, NOT the rivets outside the green square.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> circuitPanel.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should see an image similar to the one below but it may be slightly different.  Don't worry if it is slightly different because we will be able to easily identify the wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> openedPannel.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use your hand or the Needle Nose Plyers to disconnect the wires listed below:
> Plug Hot Wire - Smooth Black color wire
> Plug Neutral Wire - Smooth White color wire
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element Hot Wire - Black Braided wire
> Heating Element Neutral Wire - Black Braided wire - yes looks just like wire #3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> numberedWires.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMPORTANT:  Ignore any other tiny wires that may come out of the upper right hole of the compartment.  These can be any color (black, green, white, white braided wire, etc.).  *They will be noticeably thinner than the real wires!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ignore1.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Identify and use a piece of tape Label the black braided wires:
> Heating Element NEUTRAL Black Braided wire - Comes out of upper LEFT hole
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element HOT Black Braided wire comes out of the upper RIGHT hole
> 
> The key here is to identify the hole that the wire comes out of.  Use a piece of tape to flag the wires for quick identification.  If you accidentally splice the wires it should be OK and all should still work safely and fine.  The thing is the wiring is not TECHNICALLY accurate which may lead to some confusion about which wire goes where.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> braidedHoles.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut and splice wires together.  Use butt connectors, wire nuts, or any electrical connectors to splice the wires.  JUST BE SURE that the connections are tight!!! You want no wiggle between the connection because that causes resistance and resistance causes heat and that will burn up the wire, wiring, etc. which is bad!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> numberedWires.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connect wires #1 and #3.  Notice they should both come out of the upper right hole/port.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSC_0303[1].JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connect wires #2 and #4.  Notice the white wire comes out of the upper right hole/port and the black braided wire comes out of the upper left hole/port.  The pic is bad so I tried to erase extra wires and used a Green line to trace the wire and connections.  I hope it gives the proper visual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> neutralRewire.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When all wired up it should look like the image below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSC_0302[1].JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use the sheet metal screws to fasten the panel back on through the rivet holes.
> Safely put the smoker back on the ground
> Open the smoker door and plug in the MES to the wall outlet.  You should feel that it is heating and if you leave it on long enough you will see the element start turning color showing heat.
> Well that is it.  This approach is about as simple as it gets to rewire a Gen1 MES.  Now every MES generation and model may be a little different but the idea for rewiring is still the same.
> 
> *Additional Rewire Considerations*:
> 
> This post is simply showing how to rewire for a 3d party controller to be used, BUT it does not address some week points of the MES wiring.  I will note some improvements that should be considered because they are common issues with the MES that you will likely run into an need to fix at some point.
> 
> Replace the Heating Element connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors - the MES uses poor electrical connectors on the wires that connect to the heating element.  They don't seem to be able to stand up to the heat of the element very well and corrode easily.  Mine showed signs of corrosion after 3 months of use!!!  Google the following connectors as good replacement options:
> Supco T1111c (typical female spade), or Supco T1113c (flag style female spade)
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Replace the Safety Rollout Limit Switch connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors  - as stated above the connectors that MES uses are poor and corrode easily.  The connectors here suffere the same issue.
> The big issue is that most MES smokers do not have a panel to access the rollout limit switch.  In this case, you must remove the back of the MES to get to the rollout limit switch
> Consider cutting and creating a panel to access this switch in the future
> The rollout limit switch is a little delicate so if you happen to damage it go to Amazon and search for:  KSD301  for replacement switches should you knock a tab loose or bend it or damage it in any way.
> 
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Best of luck guys and remember to be safe and enjoy smoking! :)


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## tallbm

Hi hooked, I didn't see any comments in your reply.  Let me know if you had a question :)


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## hooked on smoke

Oh, I'm sorry. Having had 2 failed MES units and now on my 3rd which is a gen 1, 40", I wanted to save this thread for future use.

I am kinda new to saving, sharing etc so didn't know what to do and still don't. Thank you for sharing and following up that is very kind of you. 
Happy smoking.


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## tallbm

hooked on smoke said:


> Oh, I'm sorry. Having had 2 failed MES units and now on my 3rd which is a gen 1, 40", I wanted to save this thread for future use.
> 
> I am kinda new to saving, sharing etc so didn't know what to do and still don't. Thank you for sharing and following up that is very kind of you.
> Happy smoking.



No problem.  I honestly don't know how to save a post other than to post in it or add it as a bookmark/favorite in my web browser, so I understand lol.

The body/physical construction of the MES is the strength.  The wiring connectors and the controller/electronics seem to be the weak points.  Rewiring and using a PID controller makes a rock solid smoker!!! :)


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## DanMcG

nice write up Tallbm!


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## tallbm

danmcg said:


> nice write up Tallbm!



No problem.  I hope can help answer some questions for you or anyone looking to rewire for something like an Auber plug and play PID :)


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## DanMcG

I'll let ya know. I did a batch of sticks yesterday and the smoker temps were all over the place. Like +/- 10°. Thanks.


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## dr k

tallbm
 I completed the bypass in about 45 minutes and ohmed everything for continuity the other day before the torrential rains hit.  Also, I briefly plugged the power cord in the outlet and it started heating and yet have to auto tune the Auber PID.  I looked at your wire pics and I need to take off the light bulb cover and identify the two wires so I can splice in more wire to attach a plug I can plug into an extention cord for light.  Does this light bulb circuit need it's own ground to chassis or does the power cord ground cover this?  I don't see light bulb wires so they must be on the other side of the circuit board.


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## tallbm

dr k said:


> tallbm
> I completed the bypass in about 45 minutes and ohmed everything for continuity the other day before the torrential rains hit.  Also, I briefly plugged the power cord in the outlet and it started heating and yet have to auto tune the Auber PID.  I looked at your wire pics and I need to take off the light bulb cover and identify the two wires so I can splice in more wire to attach a plug I can plug into an extention cord for light.  Does this light bulb circuit need it's own ground to chassis or does the power cord ground cover this?  I don't see light bulb wires so they must be on the other side of the circuit board.



Glad to hear your rewire went well.  Once you autotune you will be smoking away!

As for the light, I believe that is all wired to the MES controller :(
I don't know what wires go from the controller to the light bulb and also I believe there is a voltage step down of electricity that occurs with the power that goes from the bottom MES circuit board to the controller on top.  I believe this stepped down voltage is used to then feed the light when the MES controller light switch is turned on/off. 

If I am correct you would need to now handle the step down of voltage, wire that to a switch and wire the switch to the existing light wiring.  This would then give you what you want to be able to switch the MES light on/off.
I have done zero exploring or research on how this would go down so you are in new territory.
There are a couple of guys who have thoroughly figured out the MES controller wiring and such and maybe their input will help.  We will have to look into my HeaterMeter post to find out who may have the info regarding this new adventure :)
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...d-electric-smoker-mes40-mod-in-detail.264277/


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## dr k

tallbm said:


> Glad to hear your rewire went well.  Once you autotune you will be smoking away!
> 
> As for the light, I believe that is all wired to the MES controller :(
> I don't know what wires go from the controller to the light bulb and also I believe there is a voltage step down of electricity that occurs with the power that goes from the bottom MES circuit board to the controller on top.  I believe this stepped down voltage is used to then feed the light when the MES controller light switch is turned on/off.
> 
> If I am correct you would need to now handle the step down of voltage, wire that to a switch and wire the switch to the existing light wiring.  This would then give you what you want to be able to switch the MES light on/off.
> I have done zero exploring or research on how this would go down so you are in new territory.
> There are a couple of guys who have thoroughly figured out the MES controller wiring and such and maybe their input will help.  We will have to look into my HeaterMeter post to find out who may have the info regarding this new adventure :)
> https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...d-electric-smoker-mes40-mod-in-detail.264277/


I replaced the bulb before and it should be 15 watt T7 130Vac but I think the manual said or 25 watt.  If I can some how get a wiring diagram for the Mes Gen 1 40, to find those wires to wire it to a 120Vac plug to plug into an extension cord I should be good.  No switches just plug in for light.  The wires need to be fairly accessible otherwise it's a deal breaker.  When my original Mes Gen 1 40 was delivered all banged up in 2015 I plugged it in and turned on the light and it tripped my breaker because the bulb was unscrewed from the socket, smashed and somehow the filament supports got stuck in the socket and dead shorted the circuit.  So I figure it's getting 120Vac.


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## tallbm

dr k said:


> I replaced the bulb before and it should be 15 watt T7 130Vac but I think the manual said or 25 watt.  If I can some how get a wiring diagram for the Mes Gen 1 40, to find those wires to wire it to a 120Vac plug to plug into an extension cord I should be good.  No switches just plug in for light.  The wires need to be fairly accessible otherwise it's a deal breaker.  When my original Mes Gen 1 40 was delivered all banged up in 2015 I plugged it in and turned on the light and it tripped my breaker because the bulb was unscrewed from the socket, smashed and somehow the filament supports got stuck in the socket and dead shorted the circuit.  So I figure it's getting 120Vac.



You already have more insight on the bulb than I do lol.
I wonder if you could run a continuity check from the light bulb socket to the wires that go up to the controller unit.
I am thinking the following picture may work as a reference for the MES light bulb socket:






This should allow you to find the hot and neutral wires and go from there... in theory :)
I'm also assuming that the wires run up to the controller plugs rather than down to the circuit board lol
Either way a ton of continuity checks should do the trick :)


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## dr k

tallbm said:


> You already have more insight on the bulb than I do lol.
> I wonder if you could run a continuity check from the light bulb socket to the wires that go up to the controller unit.
> I am thinking the following picture may work as a reference for the MES light bulb socket:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This should allow you to find the hot and neutral wires and go from there... in theory :)
> I'm also assuming that the wires run up to the controller plugs rather than down to the circuit board lol
> Either way a ton of continuity checks should do the trick :)


I was thinking about the wires I saw terminated to the light bulb socket a couple years ago and finding that size/color in the bottom access area but I don't see extra wires unless they are behind the circuit board.  Then cutting them and running a continuity check from the wires through the light bulb.  If I get to the wires and get continuity I can unscrew the bulb to see if I loose continuity.  Or with the light bulb housing off and socket in hand, drill a pilot hole from the inside out only needing to go through the outside ss panel and fish the wires out if I can get enough lead.


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## tallbm

dr k said:


> I was thinking about the wires I saw terminated to the light bulb socket a couple years ago and finding that size/color in the bottom access area but I don't see extra wires unless they are behind the circuit board.  Then cutting them and running a continuity check from the wires through the light bulb.  If I get to the wires and get continuity I can unscrew the bulb to see if I loose continuity.  Or with the light bulb housing off and socket in hand, drill a pilot hole from the inside out only needing to go through the outside ss panel and fish the wires out if I can get enough lead.



They all sound like decent ideas.  
I'm not sure how well you will be able to fish the wires, but if you could put an eyeball on them then that may work.
When I did a Gen 2 rewire all of the wires were underneath the foam insulation and had to basically be carved out.  Without carving up the insulation it was pretty much impossible to pull the wiring loose or get any slack going.


----------



## dr k

I finally got to auto tune the Mes Gen 1 40 with the Auber WS-1510ELPM at 275*F.  It got my parameters to P= 34, I=282 and D=70 in 53 minutes.  This resulted in the controller coming out of full power way too early.  I auto tuned again and same results.  The instructions said this unit operates in these modes:
on/off mode is P=0
PID mode is P=>0, I=>0, D=>0
PI mode is P=>0, I=>0, D=0
PD mode is P=>0, I=0, D=>0
P mode is P=>0, I=0, D=0
My smoker interior setup is an open design inside for unrestricted air circulation for even heating left to right on the top three racks:  Open/exposed heating element. water pan on bottom rack with perforated stainless steel underneath it butt up against length of back wall.  This I'll never change because the results are too good and may differentiate my smoker from all others and how I need to use my Auber controller. 

In P mode if P=7, then 7 degrees below set temp: output=100%, 5 degrees below set temp: output=71% and set temp: output=0%.
Then if P=2, then 2 degrees below set temp: output=100%, 1 degree below set temp: output=50% and set temp=0%.
The lowest setting P=1 with this mode keeps my smoker within 2 degrees of my set temp.  This is the same as a Mes controller that you can ramp down (if you have lower air flow than mine) as it approaches the set temp with the sensor next to your food to get any temp you want.  Now that is BEAUTIFUL!  Having max output to a specific degree you choose, then it ramps down to your set temp.

Since this is full throttle output to your degree of choice, setting temp to 15*F below your desired cooking temp is done on preheating. It'll coast up after the controller shuts off and as it slows then reset the temp to your desired cooking temp (Bear's manual no/low over shoot solution) ie. if you want to cook at 275*F  preheat to 260*F.  When the controller shuts off at 260*F the heating momentum will coast up to around 275*F in a minute or two, then reset the controller to 275*F.  This will need to be done after opening the door as well.  Just having the probe in open air at your food level makes all the difference with this mode.  I need more full power for my smoker and I'm really liking this mode.  I smoked salmon on the second rack from the top starting at 150*F for a couple hours without having to change the P value from when it was running at 275*F.






Barely  see the perf ss butt against back wall behind water pan.






Can't see perf ss in this pic.  Not much of it is really used because the water pan is on top of the part that comes to the center of the rack  and none of it infront. Rib  pic from the past but shows open area below water pan. Moves heat left with air flow from chip loader hole.






Today's Salmon.






Numbers don't show on PID in pics.






145*f left and right. To me even temps and getting to 275+*f is what I needed.  The tighter offset is just a bonus with the PID.


----------



## tallbm

dr k said:


> I finally got to auto tune the Mes Gen 1 40 with the Auber WS-1510ELPM at 275*F.  It got my parameters to P= 34, I=282 and D=70 in 53 minutes.  This resulted in the controller coming out of full power way too early.  I auto tuned again and same results.  The instructions said this unit operates in these modes:
> on/off mode is P=0
> PID mode is P=>0, I=>0, D=>0
> PI mode is P=>0, I=>0, D=0
> PD mode is P=>0, I=0, D=>0
> P mode is P=>0, I=0, D=0
> My smoker interior setup is an open design inside for unrestricted air circulation for even heating left to right on the top three racks:  Open/exposed heating element. water pan on bottom rack with perforated stainless steel underneath it butt up against length of back wall.  This I'll never change because the results are too good and may differentiate my smoker from all others and how I need to use my Auber controller.
> 
> In P mode if P=7, then 7 degrees below set temp: output=100%, 5 degrees below set temp: output=71% and set temp: output=0%.
> Then if P=2, then 2 degrees below set temp: output=100%, 1 degree below set temp: output=50% and set temp=0%.
> The lowest setting P=1 with this mode keeps my smoker within 2 degrees of my set temp.  This is the same as a Mes controller that you can ramp down (if you have lower air flow than mine) as it approaches the set temp with the sensor next to your food to get any temp you want.  Now that is BEAUTIFUL!  Having max output to a specific degree you choose, then it ramps down to your set temp.
> 
> Since this is full throttle output to your degree of choice, setting temp to 15*F below your desired cooking temp is done on preheating. It'll coast up after the controller shuts off and as it slows then reset the temp to your desired cooking temp (Bear's manual no/low over shoot solution) ie. if you want to cook at 275*F  preheat to 260*F.  When the controller shuts off at 260*F the heating momentum will coast up to around 275*F in a minute or two, then reset the controller to 275*F.  This will need to be done after opening the door as well.  Just having the probe in open air at your food level makes all the difference with this mode.  I need more full power for my smoker and I'm really liking this mode.  I smoked salmon on the second rack from the top starting at 150*F for a couple hours without having to change the P value from when it was running at 275*F.
> View attachment 354995
> 
> Barely  see the perf ss butt against back wall behind water pan.
> 
> View attachment 354996
> 
> Can't see perf ss in this pic.  Not much of it is really used because the water pan is on top of the part that comes to the center of the rack  and none of it infront. Rib  pic from the past but shows open area below water pan. Moves heat left with air flow from chip loader hole.
> 
> View attachment 354998
> 
> Today's Salmon.
> 
> View attachment 354999
> 
> Numbers don't show on PID in pics.
> 
> View attachment 355000
> 
> 145*f left and right. To me even temps and getting to 275+*f is what I needed.  The tighter offset is just a bonus with the PID.



Man Kurt looks like you are rockin and rollin!
So did you decide to just go pure P mode over PID?

I know I did my auto tunes with and without simulated load where I put each rack in the smoker and pans and stuff on each rack and as well as having the water pan in.  The behavior with PID autotune values from the simulated load was better then behavior of the PID values without the simulated load.

In any case if you have yours working the way you want don't touch it.  I just figured I would serve up that little bit of info.
I'm happy to see you are getting good results and now you are set to do any type of smoked meat item you like in your MES.  Nothing is off limits now you have a smoker with basically no limitations (other than going too hot).

Congrats!!! :)


----------



## dr k

tallbm said:


> Man Kurt looks like you are rockin and rollin!
> So did you decide to just go pure P mode over PID?
> 
> I know I did my auto tunes with and without simulated load where I put each rack in the smoker and pans and stuff on each rack and as well as having the water pan in.  The behavior with PID autotune values from the simulated load was better then behavior of the PID values without the simulated load.
> 
> In any case if you have yours working the way you want don't touch it.  I just figured I would serve up that little bit of info.
> I'm happy to see you are getting good results and now you are set to do any type of smoked meat item you like in your MES.  Nothing is off limits now you have a smoker with basically no limitations (other than going too hot).
> 
> Congrats!!! :)


A shorter insulated smoker that has less air flow like the SI seems like full PID mode is good.  The Mes needs airflow for the Amnps so it cools more quickly so it needs a quicker response of full power to keep it within a couple degrees.    When I auto tuned the slow cooker for a SV it would come off full power way too soon as well.  Auber sent me a chart on slow response cookers and the Bradley Auber PID had a setting of P=40, I=0 and D=40 which is the same as P=4, I=0 and D=40 for the WS-1510ELPM for low/no over shoot which is PD mode.  I fill the slow cooker with warm water so I've done the preheat work for the controller and it just has to maintain the temp but with a smoker it does it all.  One guy with a PID I googled preheated his smoker five degrees below his desired set temp then auto tuned it.  I'm going to smoke in P mode (P=1) and play with auto tune (preheat first) to see what parameter values I get.  When outside temps are 70*F+warmer P maybe 2, 3 or 4.


----------



## dr k

tallbm said:


> They all sound like decent ideas.
> I'm not sure how well you will be able to fish the wires, but if you could put an eyeball on them then that may work.
> When I did a Gen 2 rewire all of the wires were underneath the foam insulation and had to basically be carved out.  Without carving up the insulation it was pretty much impossible to pull the wiring loose or get any slack going.


Two screws and the light housig is just hanging by the wires with lead I can work with.  I don't see the two smaller black wires coming off the socket in your pick of the bottom access for the Gen1 40.  Cutting the wires flush to the left wall and drilling into a block of wood on the outside of the smoker and done. Only one panel of the insulated wall to drill through. Solder and shrink tube some 14 guage wire, get a plug end and put a little RTV Silicone in the hole and I can plug into an extension cord.  The light socket reads 250v / 75watt. Out the side light bulb bypass.


----------



## tallbm

Nice!  Looks like you got it whipped!
I expect pictures of a lit up bulb are soon to follow :)


----------



## dr k

tallbm said:


> Nice!  Looks like you got it whipped!
> I expect pictures of a lit up bulb are soon to follow :)


I spent too much time overthinking the short lead of wire on the socket and which way I wanted to solder on a cord.  Awesome, the socket has screw terminals that accepts a standard household extension cord.  So I grabbed a brown 12ftr. cut off the female end, stripped 1/4" off each end and tested the socket /bulb.  All's good.  


Then drilled about a 5/16" hole through the wire hole from the inside of the smoker out into a piece of wood.  Had to take off the socket to double shrink tube the wires and thread through the hole from the outside and terminate to the socket again.  I spent time to think it through and it was simple and better wiring than what was originally there.  I'll add a pic I don't have my phone with me.


----------



## tallbm

Oooh can't wait! I'm such a nerd with this stuff hahaha :)


----------



## dr k

dr k said:


> I spent too much time overthinking the short lead of wire on the socket and which way I wanted to solder on a cord.  Awesome, the socket has screw terminals that accepts a standard household extension cord.  So I grabbed a brown 12ftr. cut off the female end, stripped 1/4" off each end and tested the socket /bulb.  All's good.
> 
> 
> Then drilled about a 5/16" hole through the wire hole from the inside of the smoker out into a piece of wood.  Had to take off the socket to double shrink tube the wires and thread through the hole from the outside and terminate to the socket again.  I spent time to think it through and it was simple and better wiring than what was originally there.  I'll add a pic I don't have my phone with me.


My modding is done. Just need to put in a little RTV Silicone to seal but it'll have to wait till after the salmon is done. PID temp never shows on camera.


----------



## tallbm

Nice! Looks like you are all set!


----------



## sm0kin

I recently picked up a gen 1.5 MES40 that I would love to add the WS-1510ELPM to. Before i pull the trigger on the PID, do you know if it would wire up like the GEN 1? here is the version I have https://masterbuilt.com/product/mb20072618-digital-electric-smoker


----------



## tallbm

sm0kin said:


> I recently picked up a gen 1.5 MES40 that I would love to add the WS-1510ELPM to. Before i pull the trigger on the PID, do you know if it would wire up like the GEN 1? here is the version I have https://masterbuilt.com/product/mb20072618-digital-electric-smoker



Hi sm0kin, I took a look at the link you sent.  You should be able to wire it up very similarly to Gen 1 in this thread.
I have also rewired a Gen 2 before and it was still very similar.

UNDERSTAND, that the model you show is kind of a hybrid and will likely look a little different than the Gen 1 images you see here in my post.  That is OK because all the same general parts exist... they didn't change their approach just some of the way the components look and the way they may be connecting the wires but in the end the wires still go to all the same types of components (circuit boards, heating element, rollout limit switch, etc.).

Also know that when you rewire you will lose your native MES features like Bluetooth (which doesn't really work at the moment anyhow), the meat probe (which is always off anyhow, the internal light, etc.  The rewire makes the MES dumb so that when it receives electricity it simply feeds it to the heating element and heats up.
Trust me you basically just lose the lightbulb but what you gain is very tight temp control.
As you can see  

 dr k
 figured out a simple way to rig his light back up.  You can get fancier if you like but his approach works as well :)

Let me know if you have any further questions and if you want to take lots of pics of your hybrid wiring as rewire we can post them in the original post next to the Gen 1 pics :)

Finally,  I highly recommend you get hi temp stainless steel connectors to replace the crappy ones on your heating element connections.  You will save yourself the headache of replacing them in the future as those MES connectors are a well known failure point :) :

Let us know if you have any questions :)


----------



## sm0kin

Thanks for the reply! Regarding the loss of features, this model doesn’t have Bluetooth, the meat probe wasn’t a deal breaker, but I was excited about the light lol. I usually have an LED flashlight or headband for overnight smokes though. I don’t think there’s a way to get more consistent heating without this or a similar controller. I seriously considered a PI zero w and an arduino but it costs more than the auberin. I’m going to try a few smokes and see where it takes me before I jump in on this. I primarily smoke ribs, pork butts, briskets, and chicken. I have had incredible success over the last several years with a couple gen 1 mes 30’s that were utilizing my fan mod and amnps. I don’t even know that I really NEED to change anything yet lol.


----------



## tallbm

sm0kin said:


> Thanks for the reply! Regarding the loss of features, this model doesn’t have Bluetooth, the meat probe wasn’t a deal breaker, but I was excited about the light lol. I usually have an LED flashlight or headband for overnight smokes though. I don’t think there’s a way to get more consistent heating without this or a similar controller. I seriously considered a PI zero w and an arduino but it costs more than the auberin. I’m going to try a few smokes and see where it takes me before I jump in on this. I primarily smoke ribs, pork butts, briskets, and chicken. I have had incredible success over the last several years with a couple gen 1 mes 30’s that were utilizing my fan mod and amnps. I don’t even know that I really NEED to change anything yet lol.



I run the HeaterMeter (Pi3) that I bought from Auber.  I had to still wire up an SSR and everything to control my MES40.
Someone here on the forums did a HeaterMeter wire job to the MES where it uses the onboard MES relay to control the heat but I don't recall where it is and I think there is still some info missing... but maybe it's all there to replicate.  If so it would be much easier then the approach I took with the SSR and such :)


----------



## dr k

tallbm said:


> Oooh can't wait! I'm such a nerd with this stuff hahaha :)


Just an update. I used my PID/Mes cold smoking for the first time since the rewire. Since I can set the PID below 100° when It was 53° yesterday morning a setting at 63° was enough for a constant draft. This is awesome.


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## dr k

When hot smoking I have been leaving the I=0 and D=0 for P mode and using P= 1 or 2. If P=0 It's on/off mode like the Mes stock controllers but the PID sensor is where the food is so that's many times better than a fixed sensor on the back wall just for that reason. Running in P mode at 1 or 2 keeps the full output light on till one or two degrees before getting to set point then flashes and over shoots five degrees on first preheat. Then holds within a degree or two. Then when heat drops to set point it flashes. When it drops to one degree lower it flashes more on and a degree lower even more on flashing till a degree lower for full on. For Mes 3" intake/exhaust vents and mailbox mods this is my favorite PID mode for the PID model in my signature.


----------



## tallbm

That sounds awesome Kurt.  It seems like you are in set and forget smoker heaven! :)
I did a 16 pound brisket 2 weekends ago and I slept like a baby until the alarm went off around 6am for the initial tenderness check.  I ended up pulling it around 8am and rested until lunch time.  Talk about carefree perfect bbq!!!


----------



## 48Fan

tallbm said:


> Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.
> 
> *Disclaimer:*  When messing with electrical equipment it is best to consult a local electrical professional to ensure things are done correctly.  Be safe and use caution.  I am not an electrician and with many things you hear or read, it is your responsibility to verify the information's validity and ensure you and others are safe.
> 
> Ok now on to rewiring info
> *Smoker Referenced Below:*
> 
> MES 40 Gen1
> *Tools and Equipment (at a Minimum):*
> 
> A strong back or a 2nd body to help pick up the smoker and set on a table to be worked on
> Waist High Table - to put the smoker onto
> Needle Nose Plyers
> Wire Crimping Tool - one that crimps, strips, and cuts wires
> 14-16 AWG Butt Connectors, or Wire Nuts
> Drill
> 1/8" Drill Bit that can drill metal - to drill out circuit board rivets
> #12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fastener to refasten circuit board panel back on after rivets are removed.  3/4" long may also be good for this one panel but MAY be a little short.  I used 3/4" because that is what I used when pulled the back off my MES
> Drill Bit to drive the sheet metal screws (I used hex head fasteners but you may find hex + phillips head)
> Masking Tape/Electrical Tape - some kind of tape that can be used to mark a wire. U need no more than 1 inch worth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> missing-product
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Quick Explanation of the Process:*
> 
> The rewire is actually very simple and *does NOT require removing the back of the MES*.  What is being done is the following:
> 
> Take existing MES wiring and disconnecting it from the MES circuit board the controller is connected to
> Connect Hot wire that comes from MES plug, to Hot wire that leads to the safety Roll out Limit Switch & Heating Element
> Connect the Neutral wire that comes from the MES plug, to the Neutral wire that leads to the Heating element
> Done!
> When done, the MES controller will be bypassed and will receive no electricity.  Also the safety mechanism (safety roll out limit switch) will still do it's job and cut off power to the heating element should the heat limit be exceeded.  The switch will auto reset after a while and when it does electricity will again be able to flow to the heating element.
> 
> IMPORTANT: If you plug the rewired MES into the wall there is NOTHING to control the electricity to the element.  If plugged in, the MES will simply just suck electricity and heat up as a dumb circuit.  This is why a 3rd party controller like a PID controller is needed.
> 
> The PID controller will control the on/off flow of electricity to the heating element according to the set temperature and the temp the PID controller is reading with a probe from within the smoker.
> 
> *Simple Rewire Steps:*
> 
> The process should really take between 30 minutes and 2 hours based on how you work, preperation, and confidence/comfort level with the tools and the process.
> 
> UNPLUG the MES!!!!
> Get the MES up on a table laying flat on it's back or on the front.  If you lay it on the front (what I did) be sure not to break the glass window in the door... just use caution
> Using the 1/8" drill bit and a drill, drill out the rivets on the bottom panel of the MES.
> 
> The bottom panel is identified by the green square, everything outside of the green square is irrelevant for this step.
> The red arrows identify some rivets on the PANEL.  ONLY drill out the panel rivets inside the green square, NOT the rivets outside the green square.
> 
> 
> 
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> circuitPanel.png
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> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> 
> You should see an image similar to the one below but it may be slightly different.  Don't worry if it is slightly different because we will be able to easily identify the wires.
> 
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> openedPannel.png
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> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Use your hand or the Needle Nose Plyers to disconnect the wires listed below:
> Plug Hot Wire - Smooth Black color wire
> Plug Neutral Wire - Smooth White color wire
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element Hot Wire - Black Braided wire
> Heating Element Neutral Wire - Black Braided wire - yes looks just like wire #3
> 
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> numberedWires.png
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> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> IMPORTANT:  Ignore any other tiny wires that may come out of the upper right hole of the compartment.  These can be any color (black, green, white, white braided wire, etc.).  *They will be noticeably thinner than the real wires!*
> 
> 
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> ignore1.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Identify and use a piece of tape Label the black braided wires:
> Heating Element NEUTRAL Black Braided wire - Comes out of upper LEFT hole
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element HOT Black Braided wire comes out of the upper RIGHT hole
> 
> The key here is to identify the hole that the wire comes out of.  Use a piece of tape to flag the wires for quick identification.  If you accidentally splice the wires it should be OK and all should still work safely and fine.  The thing is the wiring is not TECHNICALLY accurate which may lead to some confusion about which wire goes where.
> 
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> braidedHoles.png
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> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> 
> Cut and splice wires together.  Use butt connectors, wire nuts, or any electrical connectors to splice the wires.  JUST BE SURE that the connections are tight!!! You want no wiggle between the connection because that causes resistance and resistance causes heat and that will burn up the wire, wiring, etc. which is bad!
> 
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> numberedWires.png
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> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> Connect wires #1 and #3.  Notice they should both come out of the upper right hole/port.
> 
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> DSC_0303[1].JPG
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> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Connect wires #2 and #4.  Notice the white wire comes out of the upper right hole/port and the black braided wire comes out of the upper left hole/port.  The pic is bad so I tried to erase extra wires and used a Green line to trace the wire and connections.  I hope it gives the proper visual.
> 
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> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> When all wired up it should look like the image below:
> 
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> DSC_0302[1].JPG
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> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
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> 
> Use the sheet metal screws to fasten the panel back on through the rivet holes.
> Safely put the smoker back on the ground
> Open the smoker door and plug in the MES to the wall outlet.  You should feel that it is heating and if you leave it on long enough you will see the element start turning color showing heat.
> Well that is it.  This approach is about as simple as it gets to rewire a Gen1 MES.  Now every MES generation and model may be a little different but the idea for rewiring is still the same.
> 
> *Additional Rewire Considerations*:
> 
> This post is simply showing how to rewire for a 3d party controller to be used, BUT it does not address some week points of the MES wiring.  I will note some improvements that should be considered because they are common issues with the MES that you will likely run into an need to fix at some point.
> 
> Replace the Heating Element connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors - the MES uses poor electrical connectors on the wires that connect to the heating element.  They don't seem to be able to stand up to the heat of the element very well and corrode easily.  Mine showed signs of corrosion after 3 months of use!!!  Google the following connectors as good replacement options:
> Supco T1111c (typical female spade), or Supco T1113c (flag style female spade)
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Replace the Safety Rollout Limit Switch connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors  - as stated above the connectors that MES uses are poor and corrode easily.  The connectors here suffere the same issue.
> The big issue is that most MES smokers do not have a panel to access the rollout limit switch.  In this case, you must remove the back of the MES to get to the rollout limit switch
> Consider cutting and creating a panel to access this switch in the future
> The rollout limit switch is a little delicate so if you happen to damage it go to Amazon and search for:  KSD301  for replacement switches should you knock a tab loose or bend it or damage it in any way.
> 
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Best of luck guys and remember to be safe and enjoy smoking! :)


----------



## 48Fan

dr k said:


> When hot smoking I have been leaving the I=0 and D=0 for P mode and using P= 1 or 2. If P=0 It's on/off mode like the Mes stock controllers but the PID sensor is where the food is so that's many times better than a fixed sensor on the back wall just for that reason. Running in P mode at 1 or 2 keeps the full output light on till one or two degrees before getting to set point then flashes and over shoots five degrees on first preheat. Then holds within a degree or two. Then when heat drops to set point it flashes. When it drops to one degree lower it flashes more on and a degree lower even more on flashing till a degree lower for full on. For Mes 3" intake/exhaust vents and mailbox mods this is my favorite PID mode for the PID model in my signature.


----------



## 48Fan

tallbm said:


> Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.
> 
> *Disclaimer:*  When messing with electrical equipment it is best to consult a local electrical professional to ensure things are done correctly.  Be safe and use caution.  I am not an electrician and with many things you hear or read, it is your responsibility to verify the information's validity and ensure you and others are safe.
> 
> Ok now on to rewiring info :)
> 
> *Smoker Referenced Below:*
> 
> MES 40 Gen1
> *Tools and Equipment (at a Minimum):*
> 
> A strong back or a 2nd body to help pick up the smoker and set on a table to be worked on
> Waist High Table - to put the smoker onto
> Needle Nose Plyers
> Wire Crimping Tool - one that crimps, strips, and cuts wires
> 14-16 AWG Butt Connectors, or Wire Nuts
> Drill
> 1/8" Drill Bit that can drill metal - to drill out circuit board rivets
> #12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fastener to refasten circuit board panel back on after rivets are removed.  3/4" long may also be good for this one panel but MAY be a little short.  I used 3/4" because that is what I used when pulled the back off my MES
> Drill Bit to drive the sheet metal screws (I used hex head fasteners but you may find hex + phillips head)
> Masking Tape/Electrical Tape - some kind of tape that can be used to mark a wire. U need no more than 1 inch worth
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> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> 
> *Quick Explanation of the Process:*
> 
> The rewire is actually very simple and *does NOT require removing the back of the MES*.  What is being done is the following:
> 
> Take existing MES wiring and disconnecting it from the MES circuit board the controller is connected to
> Connect Hot wire that comes from MES plug, to Hot wire that leads to the safety Roll out Limit Switch & Heating Element
> Connect the Neutral wire that comes from the MES plug, to the Neutral wire that leads to the Heating element
> Done!
> When done, the MES controller will be bypassed and will receive no electricity.  Also the safety mechanism (safety roll out limit switch) will still do it's job and cut off power to the heating element should the heat limit be exceeded.  The switch will auto reset after a while and when it does electricity will again be able to flow to the heating element.
> 
> IMPORTANT: If you plug the rewired MES into the wall there is NOTHING to control the electricity to the element.  If plugged in, the MES will simply just suck electricity and heat up as a dumb circuit.  This is why a 3rd party controller like a PID controller is needed.
> 
> The PID controller will control the on/off flow of electricity to the heating element according to the set temperature and the temp the PID controller is reading with a probe from within the smoker.
> 
> *Simple Rewire Steps:*
> 
> The process should really take between 30 minutes and 2 hours based on how you work, preperation, and confidence/comfort level with the tools and the process.
> 
> UNPLUG the MES!!!!
> Get the MES up on a table laying flat on it's back or on the front.  If you lay it on the front (what I did) be sure not to break the glass window in the door... just use caution
> Using the 1/8" drill bit and a drill, drill out the rivets on the bottom panel of the MES.
> 
> The bottom panel is identified by the green square, everything outside of the green square is irrelevant for this step.
> The red arrows identify some rivets on the PANEL.  ONLY drill out the panel rivets inside the green square, NOT the rivets outside the green square.
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> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> You should see an image similar to the one below but it may be slightly different.  Don't worry if it is slightly different because we will be able to easily identify the wires.
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> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> Use your hand or the Needle Nose Plyers to disconnect the wires listed below:
> Plug Hot Wire - Smooth Black color wire
> Plug Neutral Wire - Smooth White color wire
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element Hot Wire - Black Braided wire
> Heating Element Neutral Wire - Black Braided wire - yes looks just like wire #3
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> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> IMPORTANT:  Ignore any other tiny wires that may come out of the upper right hole of the compartment.  These can be any color (black, green, white, white braided wire, etc.).  *They will be noticeably thinner than the real wires!*
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> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> Identify and use a piece of tape Label the black braided wires:
> Heating Element NEUTRAL Black Braided wire - Comes out of upper LEFT hole
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element HOT Black Braided wire comes out of the upper RIGHT hole
> 
> The key here is to identify the hole that the wire comes out of.  Use a piece of tape to flag the wires for quick identification.  If you accidentally splice the wires it should be OK and all should still work safely and fine.  The thing is the wiring is not TECHNICALLY accurate which may lead to some confusion about which wire goes where.
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> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> Cut and splice wires together.  Use butt connectors, wire nuts, or any electrical connectors to splice the wires.  JUST BE SURE that the connections are tight!!! You want no wiggle between the connection because that causes resistance and resistance causes heat and that will burn up the wire, wiring, etc. which is bad!
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> __ Aug 19, 2017
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> Connect wires #1 and #3.  Notice they should both come out of the upper right hole/port.
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> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
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> Connect wires #2 and #4.  Notice the white wire comes out of the upper right hole/port and the black braided wire comes out of the upper left hole/port.  The pic is bad so I tried to erase extra wires and used a Green line to trace the wire and connections.  I hope it gives the proper visual.
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> When all wired up it should look like the image below:
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> Use the sheet metal screws to fasten the panel back on through the rivet holes.
> Safely put the smoker back on the ground
> Open the smoker door and plug in the MES to the wall outlet.  You should feel that it is heating and if you leave it on long enough you will see the element start turning color showing heat.
> Well that is it.  This approach is about as simple as it gets to rewire a Gen1 MES.  Now every MES generation and model may be a little different but the idea for rewiring is still the same.
> 
> *Additional Rewire Considerations*:
> 
> This post is simply showing how to rewire for a 3d party controller to be used, BUT it does not address some week points of the MES wiring.  I will note some improvements that should be considered because they are common issues with the MES that you will likely run into an need to fix at some point.
> 
> Replace the Heating Element connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors - the MES uses poor electrical connectors on the wires that connect to the heating element.  They don't seem to be able to stand up to the heat of the element very well and corrode easily.  Mine showed signs of corrosion after 3 months of use!!!  Google the following connectors as good replacement options:
> Supco T1111c (typical female spade), or Supco T1113c (flag style female spade)
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Replace the Safety Rollout Limit Switch connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors  - as stated above the connectors that MES uses are poor and corrode easily.  The connectors here suffere the same issue.
> The big issue is that most MES smokers do not have a panel to access the rollout limit switch.  In this case, you must remove the back of the MES to get to the rollout limit switch
> Consider cutting and creating a panel to access this switch in the future
> The rollout limit switch is a little delicate so if you happen to damage it go to Amazon and search for:  KSD301  for replacement switches should you knock a tab loose or bend it or damage it in any way.
> 
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Best of luck guys and remember to be safe and enjoy smoking! :)


does the pid wire into the smoker to control turning the element on and off and if so how do you wire it in


----------



## tallbm

48Fan said:


> does the pid wire into the smoker to control turning the element on and off and if so how do you wire it in



Hi there and welcome!

With this rewire job the PID does NOT wire into the MES smoker, BUT the idea is not far off.

This rewire job makes it so that the MES is dumb and when fed power will bypass the factory electronics and go straight to heating the element.  Simply if the MES is receiving power it is heating up, no other behavior.

This is how it all works together:

The PID Controller is plugged into the wall and the MES cord plugs into the PID Controller.
The PID Controller has a target set temp entered (like 225F)
The PID Controller has a temp probe/thermometer placed inside the MES to measure the temp of the smoker
The PID Controller will switch power on/off to the MES to reach the set temp and hold the temp inside the smoker within a couple of degrees of the set temp
So again, this rewire makes the MES dumb and behave so that when it is fed power the heating element heats up.  The PID controller will then control the power on/off to the MES based on the set temperature.

Let me know if all this gibberish makes some sense :)


----------



## 48Fan

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> With this rewire job the PID does NOT wire into the MES smoker, BUT the idea is not far off.
> 
> This rewire job makes it so that the MES is dumb and when fed power will bypass the factory electronics and go straight to heating the element.  Simply if the MES is receiving power it is heating up, no other behavior.
> 
> This is how it all works together:
> 
> The PID Controller is plugged into the wall and the MES cord plugs into the PID Controller.
> The PID Controller has a target set temp entered (like 225F)
> The PID Controller has a temp probe/thermometer placed inside the MES to measure the temp of the smoker
> The PID Controller will switch power on/off to the MES to reach the set temp and hold the temp inside the smoker within a couple of degrees of the set temp
> So again, this rewire makes the MES dumb and behave so that when it is fed power the heating element heats up.  The PID controller will then control the power on/off to the MES based on the set temperature.
> 
> Let me know if all this gibberish makes some sense :)


thank you it makes sense


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## 48Fan

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> With this rewire job the PID does NOT wire into the MES smoker, BUT the idea is not far off.
> 
> This rewire job makes it so that the MES is dumb and when fed power will bypass the factory electronics and go straight to heating the element.  Simply if the MES is receiving power it is heating up, no other behavior.
> 
> This is how it all works together:
> 
> The PID Controller is plugged into the wall and the MES cord plugs into the PID Controller.
> The PID Controller has a target set temp entered (like 225F)
> The PID Controller has a temp probe/thermometer placed inside the MES to measure the temp of the smoker
> The PID Controller will switch power on/off to the MES to reach the set temp and hold the temp inside the smoker within a couple of degrees of the set temp
> So again, this rewire makes the MES dumb and behave so that when it is fed power the heating element heats up.  The PID controller will then control the power on/off to the MES based on the set temperature.
> 
> Let me know if all this gibberish makes some sense :)


I just bought my smoker used it 2 times haven't had any issues wanted to know what to do if it happens to me


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## tallbm

48Fan said:


> I just bought my smoker used it 2 times haven't had any issues wanted to know what to do if it happens to me



It's good to be knowledgeable and prepared :)
If/when the day comes you need or want to make the change, you know where you can go to get the info :D


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## Braz

Just a quick "thanks" to tallbm for this tutorial. Did the rewire yesterday with just one trip to the hardware store (wire nuts & pop rivets). Hooked up the Auber and tested it. This is going to make my MES so much better.

Auber's Operation Manual really sucks, by the way. I wish someone would do a tutorial in normal person English instead of engineer speak.


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## dr k

Braz said:


> Just a quick "thanks" to tallbm for this tutorial. Did the rewire yesterday with just one trip to the hardware store (wire nuts & pop rivets). Hooked up the Auber and tested it. This is going to make my MES so much better.
> 
> Auber's Operation Manual really sucks, by the way. I wish someone would do a tutorial in normal person English instead of engineer speak.


Which Auber did you get?


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## tallbm

Braz said:


> Just a quick "thanks" to tallbm for this tutorial. Did the rewire yesterday with just one trip to the hardware store (wire nuts & pop rivets). Hooked up the Auber and tested it. This is going to make my MES so much better.
> 
> Auber's Operation Manual really sucks, by the way. I wish someone would do a tutorial in normal person English instead of engineer speak.



I'm glad it helped! :)

Heres a bit of info that may help you or others with Auber PIDs so please bare with the long post :)

Yeah their documentation takes a little bit of mental adjustment to get to.
It's flow and order doesn't make much sense, most sections seem to be written like a school paper/essay, and then their diagrams are not initially intuitive and the diagrams are suppose to take the place of explaining out steps to operate the device.

Once you absorb the documentation as whole then the 2nd or 3rd pass starts to make sense... some :)

When in doubt remember the SET button simply takes you to the next setting.
If you hold SET for 3 seconds the next setting is to go into programming menus like (I think):
-SET 3 seconds
-Enter 166 to enter PID settings menu
-Hit SET to move to next setting
-Use +- buttons to adjust settings
-Again hit SET to move to next setting
-This is how you can get to the AutoTune setting and set the value to what the documentation says to start AutoTune if you want to do that


You generally have 6 steps with the Auber.  Each step contains a Cooking Temp (C for cooking temp ) and Time (t for time) setting.
So you have:

C1 & t1 for step 1
C2 & t2 for step 2
etc. etc. down to C6 & t6
To set a step you do the following:

-Hit SET button and C1 will flash for a moment
-Use +- button to enter a Cooking Temp
-Hit SET button again and t1 will flash for a moment
-Use +- button to enter the time for the C1 cooking temp to be held for step 1 (see my tip for setting time below)
-Hit Set button again to move on from t1 and you should see C2 flash for setting temp on step 2

For simple folks like me who may not want/care to use all the step features, I recommend you simply Zero out all of the values for all steps *C* (Cooking time) and *t* (time to hold cooking temp for that step).

Zero'ed out means:

-C1 = 0, t1 =0
-C2 =0, t1 =0
- do this for every step

Now set C1 to your most commonly used cooking temp (225, 250, 275, etc.)
-C1 = 250
Now set t1 to 1200 (which is 1200 minutes or 20 hours)
-t1 - 1200

At this point you are only using step 1 (C1 &t1).
Setting t1 to 1200min/20hours means that you don't have to worry about the Auber turning off the power on any cooks/smokes shorter than 20 hours.

Finally, you can simply just turn on the Auber and if you want/need to adjust the cooking temp you:

-Hit SET and C1 will flash
-Use +- to adjust the Cooking Temp for C1 (225, 250, 275, 160, etc etc. whatever you need)
-Hit SET again to lock in the C1 value and it will move to t1
-DO NOTHING here as all you intended to do was change the cooking temp which is done.  After about 5-10 seconds the auber screen will flash back to showing you the current temp and you are locked in to cook!

Following these steps should make it so that your Auber utilizes only 1 step and makes setting the Cooking Temp easy and carefree for any cooks/smokes that finish within 20 hours :)

I hope this info helps!


----------



## Braz

dr k said:


> Which Auber did you get?


Same as yours I think. WS-1510ELPM. Since I already use a Smoke temp probe I don't need the dual probe PID to monitor the internal temps, and this unit is cheaper than the dual probe one.


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## Braz

tallbm said:


> I'm glad it helped! :)
> 
> Heres a bit of info that may help you or others with Auber PIDs so please bare with the long post :)....



Thanks again. That clears some things up. Printed it out and added it to the Auber instructions. I think I will just stay with the factory default settings and not try to get into the auto tuning weeds for now. In my testing yesterday it seemed to get to the set temp and hold there (+/- about 2*) without overshooting the mark on warmup. That's close enough for me. I tested it at 150* and 250*.


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## dr k

Braz said:


> Same as yours I think. WS-1510ELPM. Since I already use a Smoke temp probe I don't need the dual probe PID to monitor the internal temps, and this unit is cheaper than the dual probe one.


It's great that the default parameters work well for you.  I tried that then wrote down the default and autotuned and both came out of full power way before the set point so I followed the P mode in the instructions and set P=1, I=0 and D=0. This gives full power to one degree below set point and flash for 50% power then off at set point so less waiting to get to set point and fastest recovery when opening the door and when food is in the smoker.  It's easy to remember and worth a try if your find the PID starts flashing 10° or more before set point. With smokers like the Smoken It or MB analog with a 1/2" intake and exhaust hole full PID mode should be fine but the Mes breathes easier and equal flashes on and off for 50% power keeps up with heat loss from more air flow.  IMO with the Mes full power or 50% power is the key for keeping the set temp with the sensor at food level.


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## vgene

Still a great post!!! Super useful tallbm!!!


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## tallbm

vgene said:


> Still a great post!!! Super useful tallbm!!!


I put together the info after having to scrounge bits and pieces of the info from various posts and such.  
I'm glad you found it helpful and I hope it continues to be helpful for more people in the future :)


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## REC TEC DEX

Thanks much Tallbm!  I just about threw away my MES after the controller bit the dust.  Glad I didn't as the Rec Tec i got to replace it doesn't allow me do a low temp smoke.  Followed your directions and it all worked just as advertised.  Looking forward to smoking some sausages and cheese in the reborn MES later this winter.


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## tallbm

REC TEC DEX" data-source="post: 1909610"
	class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
	
		
REC TEC DEX said:


> Thanks much Tallbm!  I just about threw away my MES after the controller bit the dust.  Glad I didn't as the Rec Tec i got to replace it doesn't allow me do a low temp smoke.  Followed your directions and it all worked just as advertised.  Looking forward to smoking some sausages and cheese in the reborn MES later this winter.



Hi there and welcome!
I'm glad it all worked out for you!  What PID did you go with after the rewire?


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## lovethemeats

Yeah that WS-1510ELPM is a great unit. Been great ever since I rewired my MES40 in the early spring. Like the fact that you can store temp/time programs in the unit. More companies need to look at that feature and add it into their smoker units. It is no big deal having to write them down to remember what each one is. The fact that you customize it to your needs is awesome.


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## PAS

I'm confused, so it takes a$170. controller to make a $120 smoker to work correctly??  What did I miss.  Sorry for being the dumb guy on the block.


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## solman

PAS said:


> I'm confused, so it takes a$170. controller to make a $120 smoker to work correctly??  What did I miss.  Sorry for being the dumb guy on the block.



i don't have an electric smoker, but i'm guessing it works "good enough" for most people. for the others, the fun is customizing and making it do things it wasn't intended to do. 

at first i admit i kind of struggled to understand the need for this mod (why not just set the smoker on the highest temp setting, and let the PID control the temperature, no need to rewire anything) then i realized it would be handy for control units that are dead and no longer working. and even if it's not dead, it's fun to tinker!


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## tallbm

PAS said:


> I'm confused, so it takes a$170. controller to make a $120 smoker to work correctly??  What did I miss.  Sorry for being the dumb guy on the block.



No problem :)

When an MES breaks down or someone is not happy with the it's performance there is the option to rewire it and buy a much better PID controller to use with it.

The strength of the MES is it's physical construction and it is very good in that regard.  The weakness is in it's controller and some of the cheap wiring connectors that masterbuilt uses.

If you rewire and use a PID controller you have an electrical smoker that can't be beat!
You will be hard pressed to find electrical smokers under $300 with the same features so you actually come out better and less expensive going this route rather than buying one of the few electric smokers with these features like the SmokinIT 2D, 3D or better.

Now what I have done and what I suggest is for people to buy a used MES on Craigslist for like $40-$50.  Rewire and put a PID controller on it and BAM you made out like a bandit!  I've done this and gifted the smoker to my mother.  I also got my brother to get get an MES the same way and he has been rolling with it as is but I'm ready for the day I get the call that we should rewire and add a PID :)

Yes it sounds very silly on the surface but once you get a set and forget smoker that holds within 2 degrees of the set temp (no 30F degree temp swings) the entire world of meat smoking is open to you.  You can cold smoke with no heat, or do low temp smokes like bacon or sausage and still not be restricted you from doing pork butts and brisket and other big hot and fast meats.  Heck I rewired mine and I do fast chicken smokes at 325F (I don't exceed this temp ever) so I get edible chicken skin!  No doing that with a stock MES.

I hope this info helps shed some light on the topic :)


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## lovethemeats

Good units. Just crappy controllers. When it dies or goes bad. Why throw it out. Mine would stick on and go way over temp. I caught it the 1st time when it hit 350+. The unit to stop the power to the heater also faulted out and did not blow. The second time it faulted out and the heater stayed on I was right there. So No trust with the controller. Now this was a brand new unit I bought. So it was get in touch with masterbuilt and fight and get new parts plus really never trust it again. or just spend the money. Get a kick butt controller. Replace parts with better ones. And away I go. I even replaced the crappy wiring they have in the unit. Now its more robust. Now its a MASTERBUILT MES40. By Rob and help from here.
Oh and I'd like to know where you can get one for 120 bucks. MES40 Bluetooth is a little more than that. I'd buy 2 more then.


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## lovethemeats

I'm with tallbm. His words are true. And when you add the New PID - It makes the unit great. And he's exactly right about the temp swing on the new PID. All I can say is awesome. I'd never get rid of it.


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## biteme7951

My MES40 Gen 1 finally gave up after many years of use. I Purchased the Auber WS-1510ELPM and installed per tallbm's detailed instructions. when I pulled the plate off the element compartment the terminals just fell apart when I touched them. Hmmm, maybe i should just put new terminals on that I purchased? Nope, I dug in and did the rewire and fired it up. I even flipped the element over and tore the chip tray out as I only use a pellet tray or tube in it anyway.  I set it at 200 degrees and watched it climb quickly until it got closer to set-point then the rate of gain slowed until it hit 200 AND STAYED THERE! I would occasionally see a 199 or a 201 on the display but that is it over a 3 hr test run. The big test was Christmas eve when I preheated it at 230 degrees and loaded 2 rib roasts in it. once it got back up to 230 it never fluctuated one degree one way or the other, and believe me I kept an eye on it like a kid watching for Santa Clause. I am very impressed with the tight control it has on the unit and thank you tallbm for the simple instructions for the conversion.

Barry.


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## Winterrider

Just want folks that do the PID add-on to know It is not a cure-all for cold weather, I can attest to that trying to do a bird for xmas. It called for full power during the whole smoke when temp was at 14° with stiff wind. Could only get temps to 245° when set for 270°. I have done other smokes in some cold temps and it "does" hold within a few degrees when target temp is reached. If thinking about it , "get it"...


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## Braz

Winterrider said:


> Just want folks that do the PID add-on to know It is not a cure-all for cold weather, I can attest to that trying to do a bird for xmas. It called for full power during the whole smoke when temp was at 14° with stiff wind. Could only get temps to 245° when set for 270°. I have done other smokes in some cold temps and it "does" hold within a few degrees when target temp is reached. If thinking about it , "get it"...


Sounds like time to invest in a welding blanket to wrap the smoker in.


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## Winterrider

Got insulated cover made and had wrapped in another blanket when I did that smoke. May look into one for future. Thanks...


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## biteme7951

Winterrider said:


> Just want folks that do the PID add-on to know It is not a cure-all for cold weather, I can attest to that trying to do a bird for xmas. It called for full power during the whole smoke when temp was at 14° with stiff wind. Could only get temps to 245° when set for 270°. I have done other smokes in some cold temps and it "does" hold within a few degrees when target temp is reached. If thinking about it , "get it"...



The element will only put out so much heat regardless of the control used. The PID controller also adds about 4ft of "extension" cord to the unit. Any further extension cords will reduce the voltage to the element and the heat it can produce.

Barry.


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## PAS

lovethemeats said:


> Oh and I'd like to know where you can get one for 120 bucks. MES40 Bluetooth is a little more than that. I'd buy 2 more then.


This past fall Lowes had the MES 230G on clearance sale and a friend and I walked out with 3 of them for  $119.99. each.


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## dr k

It's nice to have the recipe saving feature in the Auber PID program mode that it's defaulted to out of the box.  I never used the saving recipes feature because I was spending too much time just in the program mode manually changing temps and times in stages to ramp up for salmon/sausage.  I prefer not to set minutes of cook time for even one stage in program mode let alone up to the six available stages every smoke so I use the single stage mode to set temp only and it stays on till you shut it off and just change temps when your time alarm on your dedicated therm goes off. Kinda like setting the Mes to 24 hours max time and adjusting the temp as you want throughout that smoke.

Even setting the PID to on/off mode (P=0) like the way the Mes controller works, your eliminating most of the temp swing, having the controller sensor next to your food.  My favorite setting is still P=1, I=0 and D=0.  For the analog crockpot sous vide/yogurt setting Auber sent me a chart that shows P=4, I=0 and D=40.  These settings are for the WS-1510ELPM.


----------



## tallbm

biteme7951 said:


> My MES40 Gen 1 finally gave up after many years of use. I Purchased the Auber WS-1510ELPM and installed per tallbm's detailed instructions. when I pulled the plate off the element compartment the terminals just fell apart when I touched them. Hmmm, maybe i should just put new terminals on that I purchased? Nope, I dug in and did the rewire and fired it up. I even flipped the element over and tore the chip tray out as I only use a pellet tray or tube in it anyway.  I set it at 200 degrees and watched it climb quickly until it got closer to set-point then the rate of gain slowed until it hit 200 AND STAYED THERE! I would occasionally see a 199 or a 201 on the display but that is it over a 3 hr test run. The big test was Christmas eve when I preheated it at 230 degrees and loaded 2 rib roasts in it. once it got back up to 230 it never fluctuated one degree one way or the other, and believe me I kept an eye on it like a kid watching for Santa Clause. I am very impressed with the tight control it has on the unit and thank you tallbm for the simple instructions for the conversion.
> 
> Barry.


I'm glad my post could help!
Yeah having that tight control is awesome!  No worries of temp swings ruining sausage or bacon by causing the fat to render out.  

As for not reaching max temp I live in TX so I don't get very cold weather temps.  Also I HAVE run into situations where the temp reading was lower than it should have been but that is usually due to airflow being directed around the PID probe via pan and meat arrangement OR a pan/cold meat resting against the PID prob causing false or low readings.  This is why I run 2 additional rack level probes (left back and right front with my pid probe attached under the center of the rack) to give me a complete understanding of my smoker temps at rack/meat level :)

The PID controller is amazing but as with any smoker/system there is definitely the opportunity for user error and those are the tricks and quirks that have to be worked with hahaha


----------



## REC TEC DEX

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> I'm glad it all worked out for you!  What PID did you go with after the rewire?


Well, at the risk of opening myself up to some mockery here - i didn't go with a PID.  I'm going to give the Willhi WH1803A a shot.  IF the reviewers were honest, they say it can hold temp within a degree or two.  For $50, if it doesn't do the trick I'll find another use for it and buy the Auber.


----------



## front sight

Took a look at it. Specification say only goes to 230 degrees.

WH-1803A series temperature controller (AC110V available)

Specification:

1. Power supply: AC 110V ~ 220V

*2. Measure range: -58 ~ 230℉ (-50 ~ 110℃)*

3. Temperature resolution: 0.1

4. Accuracy: ±0.5

6. Slew range of temp controlling: 0.1 - 25(difference between turn-on degree and turn-off degree)

7. Control resolution: 0.1

8. Power consumption: less than 3W

9. Relay contact capacity: 15A

10. Store setting after power off: Yes

11. Compressor delay protection: Yes

12. High and Low Temperature alarm: Yes

13. Product size: 5.8in * 2.7in * 1.5in


----------



## REC TEC DEX

Yep - I saw that.  I'm only planning to use the old MES for low-temp smoking.  (ie-venison sausages, cheese, etc)  I have a pellet grill for the rest.

When i get a chance to test it out I'll post an update


----------



## tallbm

REC TEC DEX" data-source="post: 1910265"
	class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
	
		
REC TEC DEX said:


> Well, at the risk of opening myself up to some mockery here - i didn't go with a PID.  I'm going to give the Willhi WH1803A a shot.  IF the reviewers were honest, they say it can hold temp within a degree or two.  For $50, if it doesn't do the trick I'll find another use for it and buy the Auber.



REC TEC DEX" data-source="post: 1910341"
	class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
	
		
REC TEC DEX said:


> Yep - I saw that.  I'm only planning to use the old MES for low-temp smoking.  (ie-venison sausages, cheese, etc)  I have a pellet grill for the rest.
> 
> When i get a chance to test it out I'll post an update



Hey if it works for what you want to do then that is fantastic, don't worry about what anyone else may think hahaha :D
I think the SausageMaker company sells units that are similar and don't go over 225F for the same purpose :)


----------



## lovethemeats

PAS said:


> This past fall Lowes had the MES 230G on clearance sale and a friend and I walked out with 3 of them for  $119.99. each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 383863



Sorry for the late response.  But damn. That's a great deal with them. Wish I was paying attention to that. Kick myself hard. I feel stupid.  Question?  6 shelves?


----------



## lovethemeats

Oh i see. Smaller different model. Thats why. I have a sportsman elite. 6 shelf. Well keep on smoking. Both of mine are good units. The Mes30 I have still has the same controller on it and the unit runs great. No issues. Buttons and face work good. Same element.  Others have had issues with theirs. I guess it all depends on the parts and care when you break it down. 
Well happy smoking with yours. Make same great things with them. 
Rob


----------



## tallbm

lovethemeats said:


> Oh i see. Smaller different model. Thats why. I have a sportsman elite. 6 shelf. Well keep on smoking. Both of mine are good units. The Mes30 I have still has the same controller on it and the unit runs great. No issues. Buttons and face work good. Same element.  Others have had issues with theirs. I guess it all depends on the parts and care when you break it down.
> Well happy smoking with yours. Make same great things with them.
> Rob



Yep, parts and care are just one area to consider.  

I ran into the issue where my unit had like a 30-35F swing on temps and that bothered me.
See I do a wide range of smoking which includes sausage and bacon.  When you do sausage and bacon you have to be concerned with getting temps too hot which then cause the fat to melt and render out.  This is known as "fat out" and ruins the food (still edible but not enjoyable).
The temp swings were just too much of a risk and a scare for me, also I couldn't hit max temp of 275F in my MES before the rewire which was disappointing as well.
I personally had the philosophy that if I had a smoker then I wanted to be able to smoke anything in it.  I don't like limitations that don't need to be there :D

Finally, if a unit malfunctions then the rewire + PID controller + AMNPS can not only save it but greatly improve the overall function :)


----------



## chopsaw

Bought the WS-1510ELPM . I love this thing . Always had good luck with my MES 30 , but what a difference this makes . 
I'm finding shorter cook times so far . Guessing because no more falling temps .  
Used it the other day to smoke a ham I cured . Temps in the 20's . Smoker set to 200 worked great . 
Next day did a pork loin . Cold and windy again . Smoker set to 260 . Struggled to reach cook temp . 
So running in PID mode , I set P=1 , I=0 , D=100 . No more struggle . Ran up to temp , with a faster recovery response .
Part of what you pay for with this model is the tuning / programming . 
Skip the flow charts , Understand what each letter does and the number assigned to it , greater or lesser will increase or decrease the operation . 

Also , may or may not know the the ambient reading on the sensor can be calibrated . Access code is 155 . Entered value is + / - whatever offset you need . 
Starts at page 11 section 5.2 in the directions I have if you're interested .


----------



## dr k

When I read the directions before I bought it, in the description of what each paraneter did, regarding temp or time I saw P mode. I figured if the Mes controller is P mode (P=0, on/off mode regardless of what the  other parameters are set to) P=1 has highest output for fastest recovery when I=0 and D=0. I'll just have to change D=0 to 100 and give your PD mode a whirl. I do like the 100% output right up close to the set point. The default setting and autotune came out of 100% output too soon. The no overshoot Sous Vide Crockpot is in PD mode as well. P=4, I=0 and D=40. It'll hold at or 1° below set point.


----------



## Winterrider

dr k said:


> I figured if the Mes controller is P mode (P=0, on/off mode regardless of what the other parameters are set to) P=1 has highest output for fastest recovery when I=0 and D=0. I'll just have to change D=0 to 100 and give your PD mode a whirl. I do like the 100% output right up close to the set point. The default setting and autotune came out of 100% output too soon.



Kurt, I have mine set like yours. If you switch it up and find it works better with D=100, let us know. The PID is a game  changer though.


----------



## chopsaw

I had mine set using the auto tune . Worked ok  , but like yours came off full power to early . So I had it set at P=4  I=354  D=115 . Small over / under run . 4 degrees . Good by me , holds temp really well . 

I only changed it to help get to cook temp , and have a faster recover time when the temps dropped and the winds came up . 
Temps are back up today , 38* so I set it back to how it was . Just testing it out .


----------



## tallbm

chopsaw said:


> Bought the WS-1510ELPM . I love this thing . Always had good luck with my MES 30 , but what a difference this makes .
> I'm finding shorter cook times so far . Guessing because no more falling temps .
> Used it the other day to smoke a ham I cured . Temps in the 20's . Smoker set to 200 worked great .
> Next day did a pork loin . Cold and windy again . Smoker set to 260 . Struggled to reach cook temp .
> So running in PID mode , I set P=1 , I=0 , D=100 . No more struggle . Ran up to temp , with a faster recovery response .
> Part of what you pay for with this model is the tuning / programming .
> Skip the flow charts , Understand what each letter does and the number assigned to it , greater or lesser will increase or decrease the operation .
> 
> Also , may or may not know the the ambient reading on the sensor can be calibrated . Access code is 155 . Entered value is + / - whatever offset you need .
> Starts at page 11 section 5.2 in the directions I have if you're interested .



That is awesome!  You are making full use of the Auber PID for sure!  
It is so amazing how much improved everything is with just the rewire and upgrade to a PID controller.  This is why I have no problem buying a used MES40 off craigslist for like $40-50 and slapping a PID on it.  Makes for a better smoker than what MB provides at equal or lessor cost


----------



## sm0kin

I believe i am ready to do this on my 140s, anyone buy the Auberin wifi model? It seems a bit pricy, but the app looks useful.
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/aubersmart/id1103630710?mt=8
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_28&products_id=702


----------



## chopsaw

The wi fi would be nice . Looks like you would be paying for features that wouldn't be used . 
The 1510 works great  . Wish it had wifi . 
You won't be sorry you add either one . When they say 1 degree it's the truth .


----------



## tallbm

sm0kin said:


> I believe i am ready to do this on my 140s, anyone buy the Auberin wifi model? It seems a bit pricy, but the app looks useful.
> https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/aubersmart/id1103630710?mt=8
> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_28&products_id=702



I've never used it and yep that is a pretty penny but if all indicators are that it works well AND you feel it will make you happy then pull the trigger! :)

I do use a wifi PID but it is a much more complex one than the Auber wifi PID.  I can tell you that you may also need to look into a so called wifi "extender".  You can get one on Amazon costing anywhere from $20-$75 that should fit the bill.

My smoker is juuuuuuuust in range of my wifi signal and most of the time I have no issues with it getting signal without using an extender.  The signal strength reported from my wifi PID is around 40% and when it falls to 37% that is when I get intermittent connection issues.  As long as I am 40% or higher I am golden.

Why does it matter so much?  
When you set your temperature alarms/alerts your unit needs to be able to connect to your homes wifi in order for it to notify you on your phone when the alarm/alert temp limits are hit.
This is HUGE when you run into situations where an AMNPS pellet flame flare up occurs causing major heat increase AND burning up all your pellets in minutes if you don't catch it!

OR when the ol' lady decides to blow dry her hair in the other room and trips the breaker your electric smoker is on and instead of going and turning the breaker back on she just goes to another room to blow dry her hair lol 

OR when any other situation occurs that causes the smoker temp to drop too low or raise too high.
Finally, it is also nice to be able to smoke a brisket or a pork butt overnight and just go to bed knowing the meat temp alarm will wake you up at like 7am-8am,etc. when you hit the temp to alert you to check the meat for tenderness/readiness :)

Anyhow I just wanted to add some advice and some of my experiences with a wifi PID so you are as educated as you can be.  I hope this info helps! :)


----------



## sm0kin

Thanks for the replies! I contacted Auberin, and they have no plans to make the 1510 in wifi. Is wifi necessary? no, but it is a cool feature. Not sure if it justifies the additional expense. I currently use the tp-20 and it meets my needs for keeping me informed. I am definitely buying one or the other


----------



## tallbm

sm0kin said:


> Thanks for the replies! I contacted Auberin, and they have no plans to make the 1510 in wifi. Is wifi necessary? no, but it is a cool feature. Not sure if it justifies the additional expense. I currently use the tp-20 and it meets my needs for keeping me informed. I am definitely buying one or the other



Oh I didn't think to mention it but my wifi PID runs 4 probes.  I also run a tp20 so I have a total of 6 probes going.  A number of times the TP20 has saved my smoke when the wifi drops out on me due to signal fluctuation.  It seems having a redundant check/system is a "nice to have" when getting to this point in the smoking hobby :)


----------



## chopsaw

Looks like the one posted has 3 probe ports but comes with two probes . The third probes is an extra 20 bucks .


----------



## sm0kin

chopsaw said:


> Looks like the one posted has 3 probe ports but comes with two probes . The third probes is an extra 20 bucks .


Correct. I really only need 1 probe for box temp and the pid unit to be wifi, but they dont offer one that way.


----------



## chopsaw

Extra 100 over the 1510 to get wifi plus a meat probe isn't that bad really , and the option for a second meat probe . Once you get it and see how awesome it works you won't even think about what you spent .


----------



## sm0kin

tallbm said:


> Oh I didn't think to mention it but my wifi PID runs 4 probes.  I also run a tp20 so I have a total of 6 probes going.  A number of times the TP20 has saved my smoke when the wifi drops out on me due to signal fluctuation.  It seems having a redundant check/system is a "nice to have" when getting to this point in the smoking hobby :)


I just placed the order for the WSD-1500H-W WiFi unit with 3 probes, and scored free 2 day shipping after a brief phone call. If it shows up Friday, I plan to get the conversion done this weekend. I may pm you if it looks way different than I expect under the bottom cover


----------



## tallbm

sm0kin said:


> I just placed the order for the WSD-1500H-W WiFi unit with 3 probes, and scored free 2 day shipping after a brief phone call. If it shows up Friday, I plan to get the conversion done this weekend. I may pm you if it looks way different than I expect under the bottom cover



Awesome!
Yeah PM away.  I'm not always on too much on the weekend but I'll keep an eye out periodically during the day Fr, Sat, and Sun (not during superbowl) hahaha


----------



## sm0kin

tallbm said:


> Awesome!
> Yeah PM away.  I'm not always on too much on the weekend but I'll keep an eye out periodically during the day Fr, Sat, and Sun (not during superbowl) hahaha


Thanks! Sadly my Chiefs aren’t in it, but next year....


----------



## sm0kin

tallbm
 would it be reasonable to use a connector like this to make the connections in the box? Soldering is an option as well.


----------



## dr k

sm0kin said:


> tallbm
> would it be reasonable to use a connector like this to make the connections in the box? Soldering is an option as well.


I soldered the lugs to the wire at the heating element and used two wire nuts for the bypass under the smoker. Since the snap disc fails at the lugs like at the heating element I just wanted a tight twist wire to wire and a nut to grab the insulation and insulate the joint but incase my PID failed I could temporarily go back the Mes controller since I left the original connectors on the components with at least an inch of lead to strip and terminate back with two more nuts.  I'm sure your double spade male connector to bypass just the black box relay would be fine  but the Mes one tiny crimp on the wire insulation to hold the lug and a tiny crimp to terminate to the wire wasn't for me. My Auber plug and play is designed in Georgia and made in China just like the Mes per the sticket on the bottom of it but hopefully has more substantial components/connections.


----------



## tallbm

As long as there is a good reliable connection either approach of connectors or soldering should work.  I don't have soldering equipment so mine have all been crimps with connectors.  And as 

 dr k
 explains, he solders.  

Go with what you want to and prepare to be in PID heaven! :)


----------



## chopsaw

Smoke , I thought about using those connectors , but in my mind it created  possible points of failure . I was thinking like dr k . Might need to switch back , but I remembered I have 4 other options on the patio . LOL . I crimped and used heat shrink .


----------



## sm0kin

chopsaw said:


> Smoke , I thought about using those connectors , but in my mind it created  possible points of failure . I was thinking like dr k . Might need to switch back , but I remembered I have 4 other options on the patio . LOL . I crimped and used heat shrink .


I was thinking of using the connectors and soldering them together, still reversible


----------



## sm0kin

Well, I’ll need some guidance from here. MES 140S for future reference. I have a Voltmeter, but I’m not super savvy on checking anything but voltage. The four heaviest wires are braided red, braided blue, smooth white and smooth black. 

 tallbm


----------



## sm0kin




----------



## sm0kin

The wires under the element cover are braided red and braided black. The smooth black and smooth white are part of the power cable.  The logical thought would be black to red and blue to white. I connected them and plugged it in, now I have power straight to the element as desired.
If anyone concludes my method is incorrect, please let me know!


----------



## tallbm

Great job 

 sm0kin
 !

Sorry for getting on so late.  I've been buried with chores today and just now was able to check the forum today.
I think you have it solved.  How are things running????


----------



## sm0kin

Thanks! Plugged it in to confirm element Had power, waited about 10 minutes and then Unplugged it. I went ahead and set up the
 Wi-Fi on the Auber, then I had to go run a couple errands.  I’ll be back home in about an hour to try and finalize the set up and get it going.


----------



## sm0kin

deleted


----------



## tallbm

sm0kin said:


> Plugged it in to confirm element Had power, waited about 10 minutes and then Unplugged it. I want to head and set up the Wi-Fi on the Auber then I had to go run a couple errands I’ll be back home in about an hour to try and finalize the set up



Awesome!
I would be very eager to read a full review/write up on the Auber with Wi-Fi once you play with it for a while and if/when you decide to do a write up.  You would be the first and inquiring minds want to know :)


----------



## sm0kin

I planned on it, looks to be fun


tallbm said:


> Awesome!
> I would be very eager to read a full review/write up on the Auber with Wi-Fi once you play with it for a while and if/when you decide to do a write up.  You would be the first and inquiring minds want to know :)


----------



## JZ_Focus

chopsaw said:


> Bought the WS-1510ELPM . I love this thing . Always had good luck with my MES 30 , but what a difference this makes .
> I'm finding shorter cook times so far . Guessing because no more falling temps .
> Used it the other day to smoke a ham I cured . Temps in the 20's . Smoker set to 200 worked great .
> Next day did a pork loin . Cold and windy again . Smoker set to 260 . Struggled to reach cook temp .
> So running in PID mode , I set P=1 , I=0 , D=100 . No more struggle . Ran up to temp , with a faster recovery response .
> Part of what you pay for with this model is the tuning / programming .
> Skip the flow charts , Understand what each letter does and the number assigned to it , greater or lesser will increase or decrease the operation .
> 
> Also , may or may not know the the ambient reading on the sensor can be calibrated . Access code is 155 . Entered value is + / - whatever offset you need .
> Starts at page 11 section 5.2 in the directions I have if you're interested .



So I received my Auber Controller yesterday and started messing around with it.  I initially did a test run with P=1, I=0, D=0, but I was still seeing about 10* +/- temp swing.  So I switched it up to the P=1, I=0, D=100 that you mentioned here and that keeps me at about 2* +/- temp swing, and I can totally live with that.  In fact I have the dried beef in the smoker right now.  What I really love is the 6 steps you can set up on this thing.  Following Bears instructions for dried beef, I set the 140*, 160*, 180*, and 200* for the times he noted.  So long as it does what it is supposed to do, I don't have to go out and mess with anything until my bluetooth thermomter tells me everything is done.


----------



## chopsaw

Good deal . Happy you have it going . Yeah , the step up is awesome . Alot of settings and adjustments on that . I read thru the manual a little at a time . I think you will love it .


----------



## tallbm

JZ_Focus said:


> So I received my Auber Controller yesterday and started messing around with it.  I initially did a test run with P=1, I=0, D=0, but I was still seeing about 10* +/- temp swing.  So I switched it up to the P=1, I=0, D=100 that you mentioned here and that keeps me at about 2* +/- temp swing, and I can totally live with that.  In fact I have the dried beef in the smoker right now.  What I really love is the 6 steps you can set up on this thing.  Following Bears instructions for dried beef, I set the 140*, 160*, 180*, and 200* for the times he noted.  So long as it does what it is supposed to do, I don't have to go out and mess with anything until my bluetooth thermomter tells me everything is done.



Sounds awesome that you are dialed in and running!  Chop has you well covered with the numbers.
Once you figure out that you have to get drunk and stand on your head to read the setting instructions and make sense of them, you can get the Auber setup, working well, and never touch it again hahaha.

Welcome to the world of the PID!!!!!


----------



## chopsaw

tallbm said:


> working well, and never touch it again hahaha.


Says you . LOL . Had mine all out of whack . Back on track now .


----------



## scarfa211

Hi all, I have a MES 130P from Lowes, it has the top heat element for searing, Am I able to do a rewire with this option?  Is there a PID out there to control that element also? Not sure if I can post links but here is the model.

Thank you

https://www.lowes.com/pd/masterbuil...MIj4HX5qTr4QIVDY7ICh1jyQ7kEAQYAiABEgKZxPD_BwE


----------



## dr k

scarfa211 said:


> Hi all, I have a MES 130P from Lowes, it has the top heat element for searing, Am I able to do a rewire with this option?  Is there a PID out there to control that element also? Not sure if I can post links but here is the model.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/masterbuil...MIj4HX5qTr4QIVDY7ICh1jyQ7kEAQYAiABEgKZxPD_BwE


Without knowing the wiring setup with the new broiler element you could probably just get a 14-16 guage power cord and do Auber Instruments fix which is high heat female spade lugs on the hot and neutral  and a cirle lug on the ground wire. Access the bottom element and disconnect the two wires and connect the custom power cord and ground to one of the plate screws/chassis you removed. Keep the Mes power cord unplugged and plug the custom cord into the PID.  For smokes with broiling to finish  connect original  Mes element wires and run the Mes controller for the top element. It seems this would work. I stripped the rubber off the access plate and stretch the holes over the screw heads for a cover and can peel one half open for quick inspections on the connectors periodically. You could remove the six screws and terminate the ground wire to the top center plate screw and leave it there and swivel open the access plate to connect which ever lugs/power cord you want to use.


----------



## scarfa211

TY ill have to take it apart to see whats in there, not very good with the electronics tho.  :)


----------



## tallbm

scarfa211 said:


> Hi all, I have a MES 130P from Lowes, it has the top heat element for searing, Am I able to do a rewire with this option?  Is there a PID out there to control that element also? Not sure if I can post links but here is the model.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/masterbuil...MIj4HX5qTr4QIVDY7ICh1jyQ7kEAQYAiABEgKZxPD_BwE



Hi there and welcome!

So there are a few answers to your question and you will want to consider what behavior your are looking for in the end.

*Answer 1*:  Yes you should be able to do the rewire the same way as in my post BUT you would lose the use of the broiling element if you did it the exact way as in my post.

*Answer 2:*  I don't think there is a PID designed specifically for dealing with the broiler element separately.  In theory you could just run 2 PIDs, one for each element but I imagine running 2 PIDs in this fashion would be a chaotic tuning nightmare hahaha.

*More Answers and Approaches:*  You should be able to do a number of different things with your wiring to work with the 2 elements but it all depends on the behavior you want.
dr k  has mentioned an approach for you to take that would work.

Another approach I would pitch would be to rewire so that both elements run off a single PID.  This means that when you set your smoker to 250F that the PID would feed power to both elements at the same time and you would get both top and bottom heat!!!
Then when you want to broil you just up the PID temp to like 500F (or whatever the supported broil temp is) and you get a broil from both directions!!!
The downside (if there is one) is that you get two elements always working at the same time vs being able to control each element individually.  Also I'm not sure what the Amperage pull would be when running both elements this way but there is a chance that this approach simply pulls too much power and flips the breaker or needs NOTHING but the smoker running on that breaker.

Another approach I'll mention is to wire up the broiler and the smoker cooking element up so that the PID feeds power to them BUT also wire in a switch to direct which element will get the heat.  This approach means you only ever run 1 element at a time but when you want to broil you just flip the switch to direct power to the broiler element and you then increase the PID temp for broiling and now the top element is running to broil while the bottom element cuts off.

Really your wiring configuration options are not limited by anything but what the smoker temp limits are and what the Amperage pull is for the breaker the smoker is running on.


I like all the flexibility you have to work with and I think you can probably get the behavior you are looking for!!! Let me know if this makes any sense and gives you some ideas on what is possible.


----------



## tallbm

scarfa211 said:


> TY ill have to take it apart to see whats in there, not very good with the electronics tho.  :)



A multimeter is basically a must have to figure out what you can/can't do :)

If you can run the multimeter continunity check (very simple), cut wire, splice wire, and crimp connectors you can basically do everything you need to in order to rewire your setup and get what you want.

No matter what you decide just be safe and it is always best to consult an electrical professional (Disclaimer statement here hehehe).


----------



## scarfa211

TY for all of the info!!!  Ill give it a try


----------



## tallbm

scarfa211 said:


> TY for all of the info!!!  Ill give it a try



Be sure to keep in touch so we know how it goes with this new model of MB smoker.
In my mind you are the guinea pig for this stuff.

Also, what is the max temp the new smoker supports now that it has a broiler feature?  I can't seem to find that info anywhere.


----------



## dr k

scarfa211 said:


> TY for all of the info!!!  Ill give it a try


I don't know how the mes sensor runs the top element being on the ceiling or if it's a timer. I heard it's the top or bottom element not both on at the same time. A switch where the bottom element has two leads to a switch then on the switch side has two hot and neutral contacts for the custom power cord and mes stock element wires could be a quicker switching from PID to mes contrller and leave the ground terminated to the screw on the custom power cord. Temp swings and failing mes controllers get people to PIDs. What is your experience with this smokers swings? Until we know more about this new controller wiring with the new 5 chip/chunk burner settings, rotisserie and top element etc. This is the most simple mod for a bottom element PID I could think of. Maybe use this smoker for awhile to get it down in all areas first as it's intended then let us know the pros and cons before mods.


----------



## scarfa211

tallbm said:


> Be sure to keep in touch so we know how it goes with this new model of MB smoker.
> In my mind you are the guinea pig for this stuff.
> 
> Also, what is the max temp the new smoker supports now that it has a broiler feature?  I can't seem to find that info anywhere.



I think I read 275.  Honestly the broiler feature isnt a deal breaker for me, I bought this thing for the BT feature, come to find out it sucks and doesnt connect 1/2 of the time.


----------



## scarfa211

dr k said:


> I don't know how the mes sensor runs the top element being on the ceiling or if it's a timer. I heard it's the top or bottom element not both on at the same time. A switch where the bottom element has two leads to a switch then on the switch side has two hot and neutral contacts for the custom power cord and mes stock element wires could be a quicker switching from PID to mes contrller and leave the ground terminated to the screw on the custom power cord. Temp swings and failing mes controllers get people to PIDs. What is your experience with this smokers swings? Until we know more about this new controller wiring with the new 5 chip/chunk burner settings, rotisserie and top element etc. This is the most simple mod for a bottom element PID I could think of. Maybe use this smoker for awhile to get it down in all areas first as it's intended then let us know the pros and cons before mods.




Ohh this isnt the New model with the rotisserie, this is the John Mclamore model from Lowes, its a normal BlueTooth smoker with the top element added.  No settings except high, med, and low for the top broiler.  I really dont even need the top broiler, I have a grill if needed.


----------



## tallbm

If it has a max operating temp of 275F then the top broiler is almost pointless... it can't really broil hahaha.
Yeah the Bluetooth feature for the MES has always been reported to never work which is sad since it is a major selling point but has never worked.

One of the guys on the forum uses and likes the Auber PID that has Bluetooth.  I believe there are some quirks with the Auber Bluetooth unit BUT it didn't seem to be enough to keep the guy from really enjoying it.

If you don't even care about the top broiler then I'm pretty confident you could just do the rewire like this post mentions as long as you only find and connect the normal smoker heating element wires and they don't include the other broiler element in the circuit.  In this case it would operate like any MES on a PID we have discussed in the past.


----------



## dr k

scarfa211 said:


> Ohh this isnt the New model with the rotisserie, this is the John Mclamore model from Lowes, its a normal BlueTooth smoker with the top element added.  No settings except high, med, and low for the top broiler.  I really dont even need the top broiler, I have a grill if needed.


Ok. Didn't know there was a std BT with top element. MB is getting out of hand on now four Generations with a million subsets. If you don't really need the broiler then you can ignore that wiring when found or still splice into the two top element wires with a power cord and ground to chassis after the PID mod if you want plugged in broiling unplugged off.


----------



## scarfa211

dr k said:


> Ok. Didn't know there was a std BT with top element. MB is getting out of hand on now four Generations with a million subsets. If you don't really need the broiler then you can ignore that wiring when found or still splice into the two top element wires with a power cord and ground to chassis after the PID mod if you want plugged in broiling unplugged off.


Yeah too many to choose from, ty for the tips!!


----------



## scarfa211

tallbm said:


> If it has a max operating temp of 275F then the top broiler is almost pointless... it can't really broil hahaha.
> Yeah the Bluetooth feature for the MES has always been reported to never work which is sad since it is a major selling point but has never worked.
> 
> One of the guys on the forum uses and likes the Auber PID that has Bluetooth.  I believe there are some quirks with the Auber Bluetooth unit BUT it didn't seem to be enough to keep the guy from really enjoying it.
> 
> If you don't even care about the top broiler then I'm pretty confident you could just do the rewire like this post mentions as long as you only find and connect the normal smoker heating element wires and they don't include the other broiler element in the circuit.  In this case it would operate like any MES on a PID we have discussed in the past.


I should state the temp options for the top broiler is low, med, high lol no idea what temp those are.


----------



## tallbm

scarfa211 said:


> I should state the temp options for the top broiler is low, med, high lol no idea what temp those are.



Funny.  If the max operating temp of the smoker is still 275F then that top broiler element may never really "broil" much hahaha.
Unless that element is not wired into the safety rollout limit switch


----------



## chopsaw

OK 

 tallbm


 dr k
 . I have to ask , and you guys know more about it than I do .
If both the elements are 800 watts , and the Auber 1510 is good for 1800 watts . Can he bypass factory controller , wire both elements  ( series / parallel ? ) and have heat from both top and bottom ?
I would think parallel would work ? As long as you don't over work the Auber .


----------



## dr k

chopsaw said:


> OK
> 
> tallbm
> 
> 
> dr k
> . I have to ask , and you guys know more about it than I do .
> If both the elements are 800 watts , and the Auber 1510 is good for 1800 watts . Can he bypass factory controller , wire both elements  ( series / parallel ? ) and have heat from both top and bottom ?
> I would think parallel would work ? As long as you don't over work the Auber .


I guess you could have two wires wire nutted to hot and the other two to neutral if that is proper or not but I don't know how the cooking would be with both on at the same time and if you are stuck with using one or two racks.  The instructions mention that the PID can be on 100% of the time at 10 amps/1,200 watts with no concerns with heat build up with the heat sink but any higher amps/watts your limited to a certain amount of time it's on full before changing the proportional higher to get it out of being on constantly or change the output lower from 100% to avoid overheating the PID.  This may not be an issue with this small smoker but if it was a custom large uninsulated smoker at 1,600 watts it could be.


----------



## chopsaw

From what I've read 90 minutes is the time limit to reach temp setting on the 1510 . Just got me thinking about the 2 elements . Works great with one , just seems like there is an idea there some where with 2 .


----------



## dr k

chopsaw said:


> From what I've read 90 minutes is the time limit to reach temp setting on the 1510 . Just got me thinking about the 2 elements . Works great with one , just seems like there is an idea there some where with 2 .


It would preheat that little smoker in no time.  There's a snap disc safety sensor on the top element mounting bracket.


----------



## tallbm

chopsaw said:


> OK
> 
> tallbm
> 
> 
> dr k
> . I have to ask , and you guys know more about it than I do .
> If both the elements are 800 watts , and the Auber 1510 is good for 1800 watts . Can he bypass factory controller , wire both elements  ( series / parallel ? ) and have heat from both top and bottom ?
> I would think parallel would work ? As long as you don't over work the Auber .



I think dr k has you covered.
In short yeah two 800watt elements should be no problem for a 1800 watt Auber PID.
As Kurt mentions you would just have to consider a situation where the Auber PID wouldn't be working with 100% output for an extended period of time thereby burning up the PID.  
Example would be if you used an Auber PID pulling 1600Watts to heat your house with a heating element and the PID was working 100% output because it could never heat your house to 225F.  That would burn out the PID.

With these MES units that should not be an issue and they should heat up with 2 units in no time.
The other issue to consider is that if both elements pull maximum Amps and it exceeds your breaker limit and flips the breaker on you constantly hahhaa.


----------



## tallbm

dr k said:


> It would preheat that little smoker in no time.  There's a snap disc safety sensor on the top element mounting bracket.


Nice catch!  I hope that isn't how it is regulated from overheating hahaha.  Relying on a safety switch seems like a poor design but what do I know :)


----------



## cnet24

My remote failed on me during my third cook this weekend, I think this thread is keeping me from throwing out my smoker (I’ve had various issues so far). I’ve got my head wrapped around this mod but my question is the different number settings for P,I, & D? What do the different number settings do?


----------



## chopsaw

Something you get with the plug and play Aubers is the ability to set the configurations , and fine tune . Some guys don't use the features , but I do . 
Go to section 5 , table 2 . It tells you what does what . It can give you a headache , so don't read to much now . You can do that later if you do the change over . 
https://www.auberins.com/images/Manual/WS-1510ELPM/WS-1510ELPM.pdf


----------



## tallbm

cnet24 said:


> My remote failed on me during my third cook this weekend, I think this thread is keeping me from throwing out my smoker (I’ve had various issues so far). I’ve got my head wrapped around this mod but my question is the different number settings for P,I, & D? What do the different number settings do?



Chop has you well covered.  The documentation Auber provides isn't so well put together.

The P, I, and D settings all work together to control how the temperature is managed.  
Think of "P" - as the main engine that drives it all but it is a little dumb and needs some help.

Think of "I" - as the best friend of "P" that tries to keep things around the set point and from going too far off the rails.

Think of "D" - as the overly smart guy who is helpful when brought in at the right time and in the right situation to help fine tune.  Kind of like picking the proper baseball closer to handle the end of the baseball game knowing what players are coming up to bat but outside of that situation he doesn't get you to the 9th inning for the the win, just puts you over the top.

All 3 work in concert and when dialed in they keep you very very close to your set temp.

The Auber has an "auto-tune" feature to help figure these numbers out for you and for most people gets it right on or close enough.  Just set aside like 3 hours for the autotune to run when you execute it :)

I hope this info helps!


----------



## vgene

Tallbm!! Great reply. Thought you should have brought in the commissioner...a catcher...endless fun possibilities:)


----------



## tallbm

vgene said:


> Tallbm!! Great reply. Thought you should have brought in the commissioner...a catcher...endless fun possibilities:)



Hahahaha yeah would be fun :)


----------



## chopsaw

tallbm said:


> I hope this info helps!


That's a great way to put it . I wrote it down in lay men terms and stood in front of the smoker . I set P then set temp and waited . Wasn't getting to temp fast enough so I increased I until I ( me ) thought it was good . Turned it off cooled it down . Re started . Got to temp then I opened the door to lose heat and watched the recovery . To slow , so I increased D  a bit at a time until it turned the element on almost as soon as I opened the door . 
I ended up with a smoker that charges to set temp , over runs by 2 degrees , then cools to set temp ( does not go under ) and stays there . Open the door , turns the element on recovers fast with no over run .


----------



## tallbm

chopsaw said:


> That's a great way to put it . I wrote it down in lay men terms and stood in front of the smoker . I set P then set temp and waited . Wasn't getting to temp fast enough so I increased I until I ( me ) thought it was good . Turned it off cooled it down . Re started . Got to temp then I opened the door to lose heat and watched the recovery . To slow , so I increased D  a bit at a time until it turned the element on almost as soon as I opened the door .
> I ended up with a smoker that charges to set temp , over runs by 2 degrees , then cools to set temp ( does not go under ) and stays there . Open the door , turns the element on recovers fast with no over run .



Yeah it just takes a little tweaking to manually dial it in.  I had to do that with my HeaterMeter PID.  I had a bit of work dialing it in was that the PID algorithms were designed to control heat through a blower fan charcoal and not use an SSR with a slower responding heating element.  I couldn't find any feasible PID values to begin with so just trial and errored the entire thing lol.
I finally got it dialed in though and have been in PID heaven since. :)


----------



## Atl1530

Thank you for posting this. I just pulled the riveted cover off and the wiring looks the same. I guess they did not change much over the years


----------



## Braz

Maybe obvious to the more electronic savvy but I need to ask anyway. On my Gen 1 I have done the re-wire and am running through an Auber PID. I have also removed the useless internal light so now the stock clamshell controller does nothing other than take up space. I'd like to just be rid of it and make a stainless or aluminum cap to cover the holes where the controller wires come through the top.











Finally to the question: Can I just snip the wires to the controller and be done with it, or are they still doing something (like completing a circuit or something)?


----------



## dr k

Braz said:


> Maybe obvious to the more electronic savvy but I need to ask anyway. On my Gen 1 I have done the re-wire and am running through an Auber PID. I have also removed the useless internal light so now the stock clamshell controller does nothing other than take up space. I'd like to just be rid of it and make a stainless or aluminum cap to cover the holes where the controller wires come through the top.
> View attachment 399066
> 
> 
> View attachment 399067
> 
> Finally to the question: Can I just snip the wires to the controller and be done with it, or are they still doing something (like completing a circuit or something)?


I did this no back removal with four cuts, two wire nuts. One nut on the white neutral power cord and braided element wire and the other nut on the black hot and other braided element wire.  The circuit is closed to the element, not including the circuit board in the bottom where the controller leads are attached. I cut the pin connectors off the top controller leads and tucked an inch or two in the top of the cabinet. No sealing RTV silucone needed. I did put a 40 watt bulb in place of the 15 watt since the socket is ceramic rated at 75 watts directly wired to 16/2 gauge extension cord and heat shrinked for heat insulation. I took the little window out of the bulb housing with the retaining screw and put a piece of alun foil over the window till I pull it for night smokes. Lol. I'm the only one that likes the inside light. But it has to be 40 watt bulb+. 
	

		
			
		

		
	






I did seal this hole with RTV silicone. 





Cut original bulb wires flush and put a block of wood on the outside to drill through from the inside holel. The socket having screw terminals made it simple to terminate to the 16 gauge cord.


----------



## Atl1530

Can I assume this to be true?

My two braided bk wires come out of the same location but I can tell from where the connect witch wires they are.......right?


----------



## chopsaw

Braz said:


> Finally to the question: Can I just snip the wires to the controller and be done with it, or are they still doing something (like completing a circuit or something)?


Looks like Kurt got you an answer .
All that has been by passed . I removed the internal meat probe ( 2 screws inside , 2 screws under the controller and pull it out )  and re used the grommet and bracket to run my sensor thru the back of the smoker .
Then I did the same as Kurt . I cut the other wires and tucked below the surface.
Nice to have it out of the way .








Re used the mounting parts for the meat probe


----------



## Braz

Thanks Kurt & chopsaw. Love the idea of re-using the grommet to mount the temp probe. Added to my list of things to do.


----------



## cnet24

tallbm
 I’m hoping you can help me with my wire situation. I have a newer gen smoker and after removing 6 screws (it’s like they made it easier on this gen to access the wiring because they knew it would need to be accessed in the future) I’m faced with the pic below. It looks as like all wires are braided and they are connected with rubber “boots”. I’m not really sure how to attack this one?


----------



## chopsaw

That looks like the back 
 To do the re wire you need to access the bottom .


----------



## cnet24

chopsaw
 got it, thanks.


----------



## chopsaw

Make sure you un plug the smoker . No offense , I just have to say it . To be sure .


----------



## tallbm

Braz said:


> Maybe obvious to the more electronic savvy but I need to ask anyway. On my Gen 1 I have done the re-wire and am running through an Auber PID. I have also removed the useless internal light so now the stock clamshell controller does nothing other than take up space. I'd like to just be rid of it and make a stainless or aluminum cap to cover the holes where the controller wires come through the top.
> View attachment 399066
> 
> 
> View attachment 399067
> 
> Finally to the question: Can I just snip the wires to the controller and be done with it, or are they still doing something (like completing a circuit or something)?



Since the bottom circuit board has been bypassed and the wires at the top feed into the circuit board, you are safe to cut the wires at the top and tuck them in.  They are getting no power with the rewire done like the post identifies.  Cover away! :)




Atl1530 said:


> Can I assume this to be true?
> 
> My two braided bk wires come out of the same location but I can tell from where the connect witch wires they are.......right?



Technically you should be able to just splice either black braided wire to the smooth hot wore and then splice the other black braided wire to the smooth neutral wire (smooth wires are from the plug).  I don't believe the heating element cares which side it is receiving the hot vs neutral from.

If you want to figure out which braided wire is officially the hot vs the neutral of the braided wires, you would need to disconnect the braided wires from the circuit board and the heating element and do the continuity checks with a cheap multimeter (that has continuity setting) like the steps in the post identify.  That will find the "official" braided hot and neutral wires.... but again I don't think the heating element cares and the circuit is pretty dumb so as long as it has the hot and neutral going to the heating element I don't think it technically matters.  This does not apply with more complex electrical devices.  Like I wouldn't chance swapping the smooth hot and neutral on the circuit board and hope everything with the stock MES works lol.  That might fry something along the way.  Our rewire is a super simple and dumb circuit so we should be good if we swap sides with the wiring :)




cnet24 said:


> tallbm
> I’m hoping you can help me with my wire situation. I have a newer gen smoker and after removing 6 screws (it’s like they made it easier on this gen to access the wiring because they knew it would need to be accessed in the future) I’m faced with the pic below. It looks as like all wires are braided and they are connected with rubber “boots”. I’m not really sure how to attack this one?





 chopsaw
 has you covered.  You removed the heating element panel.  The circuit board panel is on the under-side of the MES.
If you are lucky there is another panel on the back of your MES about half way up.  Either in the center of the MES or on the right hand side.  That panel takes you to the safety rollout limit switch.  If you don't have that extra panel then when the day comes that your MES craps out on you after this rewire it is likely because the connectors at the heating element have burned out or the connectors the safety rollout limit switch have burned out.

In those cases the fixes are simple, just replace with hi temp stainless connectors but the complexity is that if the connector or switch burns up on you AND you don't have that extra panel, you would have to take the back off the MES to get to the switch.  That is not very difficult but is a little more time consuming then just having a panel built in... I made a panel for mys witch and it has come in super handy since I have burned up 3 safety rollout limit switches due to being too rough with them during installation hahahaha.

Get some of these connectors and have them on hand for when the crappy stock MES connectors burn up on you... they will:

Also get these EXACT safety rollout limit switches in case you have to replace the existing one (or any you may ruin while replacing a burned up one like I did lol):

Have those items on hand and after the rewire with a PID you can keep your MES going until a tornado whisks it away :D


----------



## cnet24

tallbm


I am working on my rewire this morning. Pic below is what I am working with. I’m trying to match my wires to yours from your walkthrough (which has been very helpful!).

I have only removed the black smooth wire and red braided wire so far. These were connected to the black plug (black wire plugged into the left side, red plugged into the right side).

If I had to guess:

My black smooth wire = #1 in your walkthrough
My white smooth wire = #2 in your walkthrough
My red braided wire = #4 in your walkthrough
My blue braided wire = #3 in your walkthrough

Also- in terms of making the connection do you think the wire connectors pictured will work?

Pic of wires in smoker:



Pic of connectors:


----------



## dr k

cnet24 said:


> tallbm
> 
> 
> I am working on my rewrite this morning. Pic below is what I am working with. I’m trying to match my wires to yours from your walkthrough (which has been very helpful!).
> 
> I have only removed the black smooth wire and red braided wire so far. These were connected to the black plug (black wire plugged into the left side, red plugged into the right side).
> 
> If I had to guess:
> 
> My black smooth wire = #1 in your walkthrough
> My white smooth wire = #2 in your walkthrough
> My red braided wire = #4 in your walkthrough
> My blue braided wire = #3 in your walkthrough
> 
> Also- in terms of making the connection do you think the wire connectors pictured will work?
> 
> Pic of wires in smoker:
> 
> 
> 
> Pic of connectors:


Some people terminate the red to smooth black like you have because they were terminated at the black cube relay where VAC circuit opens and closes and leave the white and blue wires terminated at the circuit board.  I wanted to not use any MB chinese aluminum connectors and cut and wire nutted in your case black to red and blue to white. Mine are two braided black as in the element access area. Mine are reversed but it doesnt matter with VAC and a heating element and not a motor. As long as the braided colored are with a white or black and not together and the white and black aren't together.


----------



## cnet24

Thanks 

 dr k
. I completed the rewire, hooked up the Auber, and ran a test drive. Everything is working as it should!


----------



## Atl1530

I have been having trouble with my Auber Instruments Controller, their tech support said not to leave the controller on top of the smoker. There seems to be a heat issue with them,


----------



## tallbm

cnet24 said:


> tallbm
> 
> 
> I am working on my rewire this morning. Pic below is what I am working with. I’m trying to match my wires to yours from your walkthrough (which has been very helpful!).
> 
> I have only removed the black smooth wire and red braided wire so far. These were connected to the black plug (black wire plugged into the left side, red plugged into the right side).
> 
> If I had to guess:
> 
> My black smooth wire = #1 in your walkthrough
> My white smooth wire = #2 in your walkthrough
> My red braided wire = #4 in your walkthrough
> My blue braided wire = #3 in your walkthrough
> 
> Also- in terms of making the connection do you think the wire connectors pictured will work?
> 
> Pic of wires in smoker:
> 
> 
> 
> Pic of connectors:





 dr k
 has you well covered and as you have found out you are good to go! :)
I wouldn't worry about using wire nuts there.  No real heat gets down to the circuit board as far as I could ever tell so plastic wire nuts should not be an issue.  Great work!


----------



## tallbm

Atl1530 said:


> I have been having trouble with my Auber Instruments Controller, their tech support said not to leave the controller on top of the smoker. There seems to be a heat issue with them,



If you can put your PID on a few 2x4s or on something between the top of the MES and the bottom of your auber that would be very telling as to what may be happening with your unit.
If I remember correctly you are running the 1200watt max capacity unit on an MES40 (1200watt MES).
It would be good to get that separation and see if it's the unit itself vs any heat transfer from the MES to the unit.
Let us know when you get a few smokes going for like 6+ hours.  The results with your setup will be super helpful to log and know.


----------



## martcrna10

Sorry for including so many pics, just trying to give the best idea of what I'm looking at.

I'm pretty sure this is a Gen 2.5 MRS 40. My electronic controller has failed again and since they don't make replacements anymore I figured I would run it with an Auber controller. 

As you can see in the pics there are several wire harnesses coming from the controller. 1 was connected to the meat probe which I have removed, a 3-wire harness runs a LED light that shines over the door (which I don't care about losing) and a 5-wire harness that runs the OEM controller. 

On the bottom end where the second circuit board is that includes the AC adapter and relay you'll see the other end of the harness for the LED light, OEM controller, red braided wires that comes from the heating element, smooth black and white wires coming from the power cord & 2 braided white wires that I believe are coming from the temperature switch control (but not positive).

I need guidance from here, do I just unplug the OEM controller? Do I need to bypass this second circuit board? If so, what do I need to do?

Thanks for any help!!
Matt


----------



## tallbm

martcrna10 said:


> Sorry for including so many pics, just trying to give the best idea of what I'm looking at.
> 
> I'm pretty sure this is a Gen 2.5 MRS 40. My electronic controller has failed again and since they don't make replacements anymore I figured I would run it with an Auber controller.
> 
> As you can see in the pics there are several wire harnesses coming from the controller. 1 was connected to the meat probe which I have removed, a 3-wire harness runs a LED light that shines over the door (which I don't care about losing) and a 5-wire harness that runs the OEM controller.
> 
> On the bottom end where the second circuit board is that includes the AC adapter and relay you'll see the other end of the harness for the LED light, OEM controller, red braided wires that comes from the heating element, smooth black and white wires coming from the power cord & 2 braided white wires that I believe are coming from the temperature switch control (but not positive).
> 
> I need guidance from here, do I just unplug the OEM controller? Do I need to bypass this second circuit board? If so, what do I need to do?
> 
> Thanks for any help!!
> Matt


Hi there and welcome!

Wow it looks like they might have made it easy to bypass their circuit board with the new clips.
In short all ou need to do is connect the Black and White wire clip from the plug to the double braided Red Wire clip that runs up into the unit, NOT the clip for the red wires that run to the circuit bard.
At that point you could clip all the little thin wires that run to the light and the controller on top and then toss out the circuit board.  Simple as that!

The older models there are no clips and you basically have to cut the ends off the red braided wires on the circuit board and the ends off the black and white wire on the circuit board that run to the cord.  U splice black to red, and white to red and u are done!  
Now you can just fit the clips together provided they fit, if not you cut and splice the old way to red to black, and red to white, and bypass the circuit board and toss the circuit board!

Super simple :)

Let me know if this makes sense :)


----------



## martcrna10

Yep, makes perfect sense, thanks for the info. 

I'll take pics as I do the mods and post here when everything is done and running so others in the future will have pics of the mods for this model MES.

Thanks again!
Matt


----------



## tallbm

martcrna10 said:


> Yep, makes perfect sense, thanks for the info.
> 
> I'll take pics as I do the mods and post here when everything is done and running so others in the future will have pics of the mods for this model MES.
> 
> Thanks again!
> Matt


Definitely post back to share the info so others can learn from your model.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all comes out :)


----------



## dr k

Your last  pic when you blow it up shows a red braided insulation that looks frayed  at your pinky finger. Cut and wire nut the red and white wires with black tip insulation at your pinky and  the black and red wires connected to the black cube relay at your thumb and done. Doesn't matter. A red wire needs to be terminated to the black hot and the other red to the white neutral.  Mine is backwards. I  wanted to get rid on those crap lugs. If that red is damaged and may have broken strands of wire inside the insulation you may have to cut there and terminate backwards like mine, depending on how much lead wire you have to work with.


----------



## martcrna10

dr k said:


> Your last  pic when you blow it up shows a red braided insulation that looks frayed  at your pinky finger. Cut and wire nut the red and white wires with black tip insulation at your pinky and  the black and red wires connected to the black cube relay at your thumb and done. Doesn't matter. A red wire needs to be terminated to the black hot and the other red to the white neutral.  Mine is backwards. I  wanted to get rid on those crap lugs. If that red is damaged and may have broken strands of wire inside the insulation you may have to cut there and terminate backwards like mine, depending on how much lead wire you have to work with. I also have some insulated butt connectors I can use for splicing the new connections.


Thanks for pointing that out  Dr K, I saw that frayed bit of insulation as well. Luckily I have a decent length of wire to work with so cutting behind the frayed part shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## martcrna10

cnet24 said:


> Thanks
> 
> dr k
> . I completed the rewire, hooked up the Auber, and ran a test drive. Everything is working as it should!


How are you liking the WSD-1500H-W Auber controller? That's the one I'm looking at for mine as well.


----------



## [email protected]

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> Wow it looks like they might have made it easy to bypass their circuit board with the new clips.
> In short all ou need to do is connect the Black and White wire clip from the plug to the double braided Red Wire clip that runs up into the unit, NOT the clip for the red wires that run to the circuit bard.
> At that point you could clip all the little thin wires that run to the light and the controller on top and then toss out the circuit board.  Simple as that!
> 
> The older models there are no clips and you basically have to cut the ends off the red braided wires on the circuit board and the ends off the black and white wire on the circuit board that run to the cord.  U splice black to red, and white to red and u are done!
> Now you can just fit the clips together provided they fit, if not you cut and splice the old way to red to black, and red to white, and bypass the circuit board and toss the circuit board!
> 
> Super simple :)
> 
> Let me know if this makes sense :)




I just wanted to chime in... my Gen 2 MES died last year and control boards are nonexistent so I decided to go the PID route. When I opened it up, the wiring looked nothing like the OPs and I thought I was in trouble - I am good with my hands, but technically ignorant. When I saw martcrn's pics I knew I had the same style of wiring. I went inside, had a beer (thinking I was going to have to tear apart the circuit box with its security screws), then came back to look at it. I literally just had to unclip the power in and power out of the circuit box and clip them together! No splicing, no cutting, nothing! I plugged my MES into my PID and it is up and running.

THANK YOU ALL!!!


----------



## tallbm

[email protected] said:


> I just wanted to chime in... my Gen 2 MES died last year and control boards are nonexistent so I decided to go the PID route. When I opened it up, the wiring looked nothing like the OPs and I though I was in trouble - I an good with my hands, but technically ignorant. When I saw martcrn's pics I knew I had the same style of wiring. I went inside, had a beer (thinking I was going to have to tear apart the circuit box with its security screws), then came back to look at it. I literally just had to unclip the power in and power out of the circuit box and clip them together! No splicing, no cutting, nothing! I plugged my MES into my PID and it is up and running.
> 
> THANK YOU ALL!!!



I'm glad this worked out for ya!  I wish they had always made life that easy hahaha.  It's good to have pictures and an evolution of how the thing has changed yet stayed the same and how u and others can bypass the horrible MES controller to join the PID club :)


----------



## [email protected]

tallbm said:


> I'm glad this worked out for ya!  I wish they had always made life that easy hahaha.  It's good to have pictures and an evolution of how the thing has changed yet stayed the same and how u and others can bypass the horrible MES controller to join the PID club :)



I wish I had taken photos, but I borrowed one of the ones from martcrn... I took apart the two connectors circled in white, fished the red one down to the bottom opening, and just connected them. Thought I would post an easier pic for people to see...


----------



## tallbm

Thanks for posting that pic it will really help folks out :)


----------



## front sight

Ok guys bear with me if you would. I've read all the posts in this thread and looked at the pictures a few times and I think I understand the rewire for the MES 40 inch (Yes, I'm one of those individuals who understands it better by see it done once than by reading about it) BUT I still have a couple of questions.
	

		
			
		

		
	















Thanks for bearing with me. After spending the cash for a new Auber I just want to make sure I hook it up right, don't want or need  something to fizzle out on me.


----------



## [email protected]

front sight said:


> Ok guys bear with me if you would. I've read all the posts in this thread and looked at the pictures a few times and I think I understand the rewire for the MES 40 inch (Yes, I'm one of those individuals who understands it better by see it done once than by reading about it) BUT I still have a couple of questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 445648
> 
> View attachment 445651
> View attachment 445652
> 
> Thanks for bearing with me. After spending the cash for a new Auber I just want to make sure I hook it up right, don't want or need  something to fizzle out on me.



I will not claim to be an expert. But what I found was that the black and white are power from the plug going IN to the controller box. The red wires (BROWN IN YOUR CASE) are the power coming OUT of the controller box. When you disconnect the plugs (black/white and brown/brown) and reconnect black/white to brown/brown you will bypass the box. Honestly you can plug them all in - the box will be bypassed and the box will be a powerless closed loop. 

Tl;dr: just clip the two small ones to the opposite large ones and done.

If this is wrong, somebody let me know. I did my first PID smoke of some ribs and it worked fine. I am tackling an 18 lb brisket tomorrow night!


----------



## front sight

*THANKS !!!!*


----------



## tallbm

front sight said:


> Ok guys bear with me if you would. I've read all the posts in this thread and looked at the pictures a few times and I think I understand the rewire for the MES 40 inch (Yes, I'm one of those individuals who understands it better by see it done once than by reading about it) BUT I still have a couple of questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 445648
> 
> View attachment 445651
> View attachment 445652
> 
> Thanks for bearing with me. After spending the cash for a new Auber I just want to make sure I hook it up right, don't want or need  something to fizzle out on me.



Hi there and welcome!

I can't see form your pictures to tell you which exact two to clip together BUT if you were to unclip everything and throw out the black box with the circuit board and all wires that went with it then I beleive the only brown wires left behind would clip to the black and white wires left behind.  That should make it simple.  Let me know if this makes sense and if it is accurate :)


----------



## jnorth

sm0kin said:


> View attachment 386962


Thanks, just did the same to my new ones.  One thing I noticed though, the white and blue wires don't need to be pulled, they are actually jumpered where they are normally.


----------



## Art209

tallbm said:


> No problem.  I honestly don't know how to save a post other than to post in it or add it as a bookmark/favorite in my web browser, so I understand lol.
> 
> The body/physical construction of the MES is the strength.  The wiring connectors and the controller/electronics seem to be the weak points.  Rewiring and using a PID controller makes a rock solid smoker!!! :)


Hi tallbm, I am a complete noob and THANK GOD I found your instructions. Is there a certain type of PID you would recommend for a MES Gen 1 electric smoker? I have found so many low cost PID controllers to Auber brand ones. I am kind of lost on what to get. ANd do the Auber brands come with a heat sink or SSD relay or what. Kind of lost as you can tell. Thanks!


----------



## tallbm

Art209 said:


> Hi tallbm, I am a complete noob and THANK GOD I found your instructions. Is there a certain type of PID you would recommend for a MES Gen 1 electric smoker? I have found so many low cost PID controllers to Auber brand ones. I am kind of lost on what to get. ANd do the Auber brands come with a heat sink or SSD relay or what. Kind of lost as you can tell. Thanks!



Hi Art I sent the same answer in another thread so feel free to reply to either.  I am including the info here for completeness for anyone else who has your same questions.

For a 1200watt MES unit you will the following is a plug and play Auber PID controller that has all SSD, heat sink, etc. all in one ready to go!





						Multi Purpose Controller [WS-1510ELPM] - $159.95 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. Multi Purpose Controller [WS-1510ELPM] - The WS-1510ELPM is a versatile temperature controller to have in your home. It can be used for various applications such as Sous Vide cooking, controlling an electric smoker, making yogurt, dough proofing, controlling the...



					www.auberins.com
				




Cheaper options u may see usually cannot handle the 1200watt load you need to manage OR they are just parts of a PID conroller and u have to piece everything together which takes more tools and more parts.

In the end the plug and play model I posted here comes out the same or less than if you are starting from scratch and buying all the parts to assemble a pid controller... I did all the research in the past hahah.

NOW, if u already have some parts, the tools, and the know how then u can assemble one for less money but honestly that is not most people who are just learning about PID controllers.

This plug and play model with the multi-purpose probe is the way to go.  Dont worry if it seems a little pricey because once u do the simple rewire mentioned in this post and u use this controller your smoker is a completely new and different electric smoker that WAY out-performs what you used to have haha.

Let me know if this info helps or if you have any questions.  Thanks! :)


----------



## chopsaw

tallbm said:


> This plug and play model with the multi-purpose probe is the way to go. Dont worry if it seems a little pricey because once u do the simple rewire mentioned in this post and u use this controller your smoker is a completely new and different electric smoker that WAY out-performs what you used to have haha.


Very true . Well worth the price . I have mine on a Gen 1 MES 30 . Works great . 
You can also use it to control other equipment , or move it to another smoker in the future . 
I second the advice given by Tallbm . You won't be sorry with this one .


----------



## TreyLock

I just did this rewire on an MES40 Model number 20075515.  It is somewhere between a Gen2 and Gen2.5.  It has the slanted drip tray, wireless remote (not bluetooth), but the vent is on top left.  Anyway, I thought I would post some pictures for anyone who has this model.


----------



## tallbm

TreyLock said:


> I just did this rewire on an MES40 Model number 20075515.  It is somewhere between a Gen2 and Gen2.5.  It has the slanted drip tray, wireless remote (not bluetooth), but the vent is on top left.  Anyway, I thought I would post some pictures for anyone who has this model.
> 
> View attachment 453893
> View attachment 453894
> View attachment 453895
> View attachment 453896



Hi there and welcome!

Thanks for posting your rewire, I'm positive it will help someone out there.  At the very least it helps reinforce the fact that the rewire job stays relatively the same no matter how much Masterbuilt churches up the wire colors and circuit board down there at the bottom of the smoker :)

Let us know how your unit works out now and what u make with it! : )


----------



## benfinkel

Hey everyone, just followed along with the rewire instructions here to bypass the OEM controller.  Thanks so much for all the pics and details!

Mine was model #20075315, and the wiring had thick heavy clips that reminded me of molex connectors you would see in a computer power supply. I plugged it in briefly and it seemed to work great (element got hot anyways). I have a few questions:

1) I quite literally took out that black box that housed the power circuit board kit. With the power connected directly to the element the rainbow wires from the controller are just curled up and tucked into the housing itself but otherwise not connected to anything. That's cool right? Do I need to keep that thing? I think it was busted anyways.

2) Now I need a PID and it sounds like the Auber WS-1510ELPM is what everyone recommends for ease of use (easy is a big deal to me). I will just plug the smoker into that controller and then the controller into the wall?

3) How does that controller get a temp reading from inside the smoker? It has some kind of probe or sensor or something? Is is accurate? Does it need to be calibrated?

Thanks again for all your help!


----------



## tallbm

benfinkel said:


> Hey everyone, just followed along with the rewire instructions here to bypass the OEM controller.  Thanks so much for all the pics and details!
> 
> Mine was model #20075315, and the wiring had thick heavy clips that reminded me of molex connectors you would see in a computer power supply. I plugged it in briefly and it seemed to work great (element got hot anyways). I have a few questions:
> 
> 1) I quite literally took out that black box that housed the power circuit board kit. With the power connected directly to the element the rainbow wires from the controller are just curled up and tucked into the housing itself but otherwise not connected to anything. That's cool right? Do I need to keep that thing? I think it was busted anyways.
> 
> 2) Now I need a PID and it sounds like the Auber WS-1510ELPM is what everyone recommends for ease of use (easy is a big deal to me). I will just plug the smoker into that controller and then the controller into the wall?
> 
> 3) How does that controller get a temp reading from inside the smoker? It has some kind of probe or sensor or something? Is is accurate? Does it need to be calibrated?
> 
> Thanks again for all your help!



I there and welcome!

1) What you have done is fine.   Once you do the rewire the circuit board and any other non-spliced wiring is trash... especially if it wasn't working for you anyhow hahaha.

2) That Auber PID is the model most picked because it covers the wattage of both the MES40 and therefore the MES30.  You are correct.   You plug the MES into the Auber PID, then the Auber PID into the wall.  Throw the PID temp probe into the MES and punch the set temp into the Auber PID.  Enjoy fantastic smoker control! :)

3)The Auber PID will have a temp probe.  Drop it down the smoker vent and clip it to one of the racks (get a 6 foot long prop + wire).  The probes from Auber seem to be fairly accurate.  Before you plug it into the smoker take it inside an plug in the Auber and test the probe in boiling water.  WRAP the probe in a plastic bag and secure with a rubber band because the probesre NOT waterproof.  Don't touch the bottom of the pot and the temp probe should be reading 212F on the auber or close to it.  If it is a few degrees off in one direction or another note it down and understand that is your margin of error.  So if it reads 210F instead of 212F then you know it measures 2F short.  If you want to smoke something at 275F you set the temp to 277F to make up for the 2F shortfall.  you get th eidea.

There is no calibrating with that model of Auber PID so you will want to test the probe to know how it behaves.  You want to do this with any other remote thermometer proves you have anyhow as well so its a good practice to know.

I hope this info helps :)


----------



## benfinkel

Thanks so much for the fast reply! I was pretty disappointed when I couldn't find replacement parts for the unit. It spent a winter outside and that destroyed the control panel and the controller box I think.  This was a daunting prospect for me but the posts in the forum were super helpful.

Ordered the Auber looking forward to some meats again!


----------



## chopsaw

1510ELPM has a temp probe adjustment . I'll have to look and see what the access code is . I adjusted mine to match my temp probe on my therm . Not that I really needed to .

Code is 155 to access  Calibration offset of the chamber temp probe . Can be adjusted plus / minus 40 degrees .


----------



## dr k

tallbm said:


> I there and welcome!
> 
> 1) What you have done is fine.   Once you do the rewire the circuit board and any other non-spliced wiring is trash... especially if it wasn't working for you anyhow hahaha.
> 
> 2) That Auber PID is the model most picked because it covers the wattage of both the MES40 and therefore the MES30.  You are correct.   You plug the MES into the Auber PID, then the Auber PID into the wall.  Throw the PID temp probe into the MES and punch the set temp into the Auber PID.  Enjoy fantastic smoker control! :)
> 
> 3)The Auber PID will have a temp probe.  Drop it down the smoker vent and clip it to one of the racks (get a 6 foot long prop + wire).  The probes from Auber seem to be fairly accurate.  Before you plug it into the smoker take it inside an plug in the Auber and test the probe in boiling water.  WRAP the probe in a plastic bag and secure with a rubber band because the probesre NOT waterproof.  Don't touch the bottom of the pot and the temp probe should be reading 212F on the auber or close to it.  If it is a few degrees off in one direction or another note it down and understand that is your margin of error.  So if it reads 210F instead of 212F then you know it measures 2F short.  If you want to smoke something at 275F you set the temp to 277F to make up for the 2F shortfall.  you get th eidea.
> 
> There is no calibrating with that model of Auber PID so you will just have to test the probe to know how it behaves.  You want to do this with any other remote thermometer proves you have anyhow as well so its a good practice to know.
> 
> I hope this info helps :)


The WS-1510ELPM does have an offset to calibrate the probe, lock code 155.  If necessary and the RTD multi purpose probe you get  with it, if you select it vs sous vide only is for sous vide or smoker and waterproof for turning rice cookers and analog crookpots into a SV or to make yogurt p4,i0, d40. Get the multi purpose RTD.


----------



## dr k

chopsaw said:


> 1510ELPM has a temp probe adjustment . I'll have to look and see what the access code is . I adjusted mine to match my temp probe on my therm . Not that I really needed to .
> 
> Code is 155 to access  Calibration offset of the chamber temp probe . Can be adjusted plus / minus 40 degrees .


Lol right! I leave my pit probes in the smoker and pull the disconnect ring to bring in the controller but for small stuff with the crockpot for SV I wanted to get a spare  multi purpose RTD for indoors/backup but dang it's $24 but worth every penny. I just don't make that much yogurt. I have a back up Mes element so I  may get another RTD multi probe. If I make yogurt at 110 for 4 hours in a crockpot  it's nice having a probe that isn't carbed up. I asked if they had discount codes when I got the 1510 a couple of years ago but they didnt but gave me $5 off the shipping. I'll just have to ask and see.


----------



## [email protected]

benfinkel said:


> Hey everyone, just followed along with the rewire instructions here to bypass the OEM controller.  Thanks so much for all the pics and details!
> 
> Mine was model #20075315, and the wiring had thick heavy clips that reminded me of molex connectors you would see in a computer power supply. I plugged it in briefly and it seemed to work great (element got hot anyways). I have a few questions:
> 
> 1) I quite literally took out that black box that housed the power circuit board kit. With the power connected directly to the element the rainbow wires from the controller are just curled up and tucked into the housing itself but otherwise not connected to anything. That's cool right? Do I need to keep that thing? I think it was busted anyways.
> 
> 2) Now I need a PID and it sounds like the Auber WS-1510ELPM is what everyone recommends for ease of use (easy is a big deal to me). I will just plug the smoker into that controller and then the controller into the wall?
> 
> 3) How does that controller get a temp reading from inside the smoker? It has some kind of probe or sensor or something? Is is accurate? Does it need to be calibrated?
> 
> Thanks again for all your help!





dr k said:


> Lol right! I leave my pit probes in the smoker and pull the disconnect ring to bring in the controller but for small stuff with the crockpot for SV I wanted to get a spare  multi purpose RTD for indoors/backup but dang it's $24 but worth every penny. I just don't make that much yogurt. I have a back up Mes element so I  may get another RTD multi probe. If I make yogurt at 110 for 4 hours in a crockpot  it's nice having a probe that isn't carbed up. I asked if they had discount codes when I got the 1510 a couple of years ago but they didnt but gave me $5 off the shipping. I'll just have to ask and see.



I have a different pid, but you might be able to buy another probe off amazon for a decent price. I needed a second probe for my... essential oil distiller.


----------



## chopsaw

dr k said:


> Lol right!


Yeah . Went from 30 degree  temp difference in both directions to worrying about 1 degree difference between the probe and a therm . 
I got mine dialed in . After it gets to temp it's just a steady blink . Stays right on set temp .


----------



## tallbm

dr k said:


> The WS-1510ELPM does have an offset to calibrate the probe, lock code 155.  If necessary and the RTD multi purpose probe you get  with it, if you select it vs sous vide only is for sous vide or smoker and waterproof for turning rice cookers and analog crookpots into a SV or to make yogurt p4,i0, d40. Get the multi purpose RTD.



Hahaha thanks for the info, i did a strike through in the post.  I dont want any bad info out in the world comeing from me :D

I think the Auber I used was an older model and feel like it might not have had an offset.  I probably did but my probe was dead on so didnt have to read that far into the crazy drunken manual hahaha.  I gave that unit and a rewired MES40 to my mother as a gift :)

On my Heatermeter (HM) i had to replace a probe and bought one off amazon and man it was 12 degrees off but I can offsett all probes on the HM... but i think the wifi functionality is busted.


----------



## dr k

tallbm said:


> Hahaha thanks for the info, i did a strike through in the post.  I dont want any bad info out in the world comeing from me :D
> 
> I think the Auber I used was an older model and feel like it might not have had an offset.  I probably did but my probe was dead on so didnt have to read that far into the crazy drunken manual hahaha.  I gave that unit and a rewired MES40 to my mother as a gift :)
> 
> On my Heatermeter (HM) i had to replace a probe and bought one off amazon and man it was 12 degrees off but I can offsett all probes on the HM... but i think the wifi functionality is busted.


I saw the offset setting when reading the instructions before buying the PID but never have needed it yet as well.


----------



## dr k

[email protected] said:


> I have a different pid, but you might be able to buy another probe off amazon for a decent price. I needed a second probe for my... essential oil distiller.


I did take a quick look on Amazon. The one's with a connector are pretty close in price. Might as well stick with Auber to get the same resistance and connector.


----------



## benfinkel

Well it works wonders (of course)!  Here's my overnight pork shoulder if anyone's interested. Used an amazn pellet tray with hickory, pecan, mesquite combo pellets. 

Question: Safest way to clean the PID probe? Just soap and water?


----------



## tallbm

benfinkel said:


> Well it works wonders (of course)!  Here's my overnight pork shoulder if anyone's interested. Used an amazn pellet tray with hickory, pecan, mesquite combo pellets.
> 
> Question: Safest way to clean the PID probe? Just soap and water?


Nice that pork but looks great!!!!
I use 99% rubbing alcohol on a folded paper towel and it does pretty well AND anything it doesnt remove has just been dowsed with micro-nasty killin 99% alcohol so i know im good to go with pid and meat probes :)

Pork Butts are $1.17/lb here at the moment. It's not $0.99/lb but I may grab one but not sure if I'll smoke it or cut it up and do grilled portions or what I may do with it haha.

Also wow, thats a cool blend from Pit Boss i've never seen before.  But stores around here dont carry anything but Competition Blend so not like I see a big Pit Boss variety hahaha.  I do want to get their char hickory though and see if my MES can produce any kind of hint of a smoke ring.

Keep it up man and I'm glad you are a successful rewire and have joined the PID team :)


----------



## benfinkel

tallbm said:


> Also wow, thats a cool blend from Pit Boss i've never seen before.  But stores around here dont carry anything but Competition Blend so not like I see a big Pit Boss variety hahaha.  I do want to get their char hickory though and see if my MES can produce any kind of hint of a smoke ring.



Thanks!

I got that bag at Walmart of all places, you might have some luck there if you've got one nearby.

This is purely a guess, but I've never gotten a decent ring in my MES before. I did this a *little* differently than I've done in the past. I got the tray of pellets full roaring and then plopped it into the smoker. The butt dry brined for about 8 hours in the fridge, and went into the smoker before it reached temp (around 160f). I thought the early "cold smoke" for the first 30 minutes or so there might have contributed to that nice pink edge I got.

Edit - to clarify I didn't put the pellets in before the dry brine, just right when I started the smoker.


----------



## chopsaw

tallbm said:


> see if my MES can produce any kind of hint of a smoke ring.


I have the " guts " removed from mine . Chip tray covers the element . If I'm doing higher temp smokes , 200 or above I used wood chunks in mine . Never looked for a ring , but it's nice thin smoke that leaves fantastic smoke flavor . I have mine adjusted to where it gets to temp , it's a steady blink . On / off time is equal . I think that keeps the element hot enough to smolder the chunks . After a long smoke all that's left is clean white ash .


----------



## tallbm

benfinkel said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I got that bag at Walmart of all places, you might have some luck there if you've got one nearby.
> 
> This is purely a guess, but I've never gotten a decent ring in my MES before. I did this a *little* differently than I've done in the past. I got the tray of pellets full roaring and then plopped it into the smoker. The butt dry brined for about 8 hours in the fridge, and went into the smoker before it reached temp (around 160f). I thought the early "cold smoke" for the first 30 minutes or so there might have contributed to that nice pink edge I got.
> 
> Edit - to clarify I didn't put the pellets in before the dry brine, just right when I started the smoker.



Thanks! I avoid walmart at all costs but I would maybe pop into the garden section to check for pellets. I have in the past :)



chopsaw said:


> I have the " guts " removed from mine . Chip tray covers the element . If I'm doing higher temp smokes , 200 or above I used wood chunks in mine . Never looked for a ring , but it's nice thin smoke that leaves fantastic smoke flavor . I have mine adjusted to where it gets to temp , it's a steady blink . On / off time is equal . I think that keeps the element hot enough to smolder the chunks . After a long smoke all that's left is clean white ash .



The smoke ring is a property of how stuff burns and heat and stuff like that if I remember correctly.   So a heating element can never produce the ring.

Now charcoal will give u one if you use it.  There is someone here on the forum that lays some charcoal briquettes just slightly on the element and they seem to produce a small smoke ring as they burn.  I think the same thing happens if u lace your AMNS with some chacoal chunks and/or use the char pellets.

I don't really care if I have a ring or not but it would be cool from a tinkering perspective to be able to create one with the electric smoker in a not so invasive way :D
I thought about smashing up some pecan shells and lacing my AMNPS with them to see if they would do it but haven't tried.  I'll get my parents to save me some shells as they have pecan trees in the backyard and my mother aims to forage about 80 pounds of shelled pecans each year hahaha.


----------



## chopsaw

I know the element won't give a smoke ring . I burn solid wood chunks on top of the element . 
I've been mixing wood chips with the pellets when I use the tube for awhile now . Works great . 
I've just never looked for a smoke ring .


----------



## benfinkel

I'm pretty sure the smoke from the chunks and pellets can produce a ring (I got some decent pink in mine) but it takes some work.

Here's my current operating theory: In a charcoal smoker there is always smoke, right from the get go, that introduces a lot of the heat to the meat. In an electric smoker the heat is ambient but not from the smoke at all. By putting the meat into a smokey chamber that isn't actually hot yet there was some time for the smoke to perform it's requisite chemical reaction before the heat from the element "closed" that off. 

You can use chunks in the included tray above the element, but it has to already be very hot to make that work. Alternatively the pellet tray/tube can be lit and producing a ton of smoke when the smoker itself is still stone cold.

 Consequently I got good pink by doing that. Getting the pellets going first and putting that into the chamber with the meat while the ambient temp was still low.


----------



## tallbm

Interesting.  Its on my list to play with some day hahah :)


----------



## dr k

This link has the highest producers of Nitric Oxide (NO) from nitrogen based plant matter that requires no smoke necessary for this ordorless, invisible, tasteless water soluble gas to instantly start absorbing into meat faster than heat can denature the protein until heat catches up to the penetrating gas and passes it turning meat grey/brown. Carbon monoxide also works for smoke rings so even though different nitrogen matter produces NO on how vigously it burns (like quick high heat of burning Savana grass) you can get a ring with CO. I don't care myself with the tasteless smoke ring. Smoldering wood just doesn't produce enough gas unless you have charcoal to supplement the gas as it burns for heat and flavor. 








						Mythbusting the Smoke Ring: No Smoke Necessary!
					

Smoked meats often have a pink layer below the surface called the smoke ring. But you don't need smoke to create it! It is created by myoglobin, a protein in meat, reacting with combustion gases. Read on to learn how removing the fat cap from meat, keeping the meat moist, and cooking low and...



					amazingribs.com


----------



## benfinkel

dr k said:


> This link has the highest producers of Nitric Oxide (NO) from nitrogen based plant matter that requires no smoke necessary for this ordorless, invisible, tasteless water soluble gas to instantly start absorbing into meat faster than heat can denature the protein until heat catches up to the penetrating gas and passes it turning meat grey/brown. Carbon monoxide also works for smoke rings so even though different nitrogen matter produces NO on how vigously it burns (like quick high heat of burning Savana grass) you can get a ring with CO. I don't care myself with the tasteless smoke ring. Smoldering wood just doesn't produce enough gas unless you have charcoal to supplement the gas as it burns for heat and flavor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mythbusting the Smoke Ring: No Smoke Necessary!
> 
> 
> Smoked meats often have a pink layer below the surface called the smoke ring. But you don't need smoke to create it! It is created by myoglobin, a protein in meat, reacting with combustion gases. Read on to learn how removing the fat cap from meat, keeping the meat moist, and cooking low and...
> 
> 
> 
> amazingribs.com




This is great stuff thanks!


----------



## dr k

benfinkel said:


> This is great stuff thanks!


Celery juice powder and ground celery seed has enough nitate to show a fake ring if it's in your rub. Some sprinkle nitrite on meat and rinse it off after 15 minutes for a fake ring. Probably why it's no longer in judging competitive bbq throwdowns.


----------



## tallbm

dr k said:


> This link has the highest producers of Nitric Oxide (NO) from nitrogen based plant matter that requires no smoke necessary for this ordorless, invisible, tasteless water soluble gas to instantly start absorbing into meat faster than heat can denature the protein until heat catches up to the penetrating gas and passes it turning meat grey/brown. Carbon monoxide also works for smoke rings so even though different nitrogen matter produces NO on how vigously it burns (like quick high heat of burning Savana grass) you can get a ring with CO. I don't care myself with the tasteless smoke ring. Smoldering wood just doesn't produce enough gas unless you have charcoal to supplement the gas as it burns for heat and flavor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mythbusting the Smoke Ring: No Smoke Necessary!
> 
> 
> Smoked meats often have a pink layer below the surface called the smoke ring. But you don't need smoke to create it! It is created by myoglobin, a protein in meat, reacting with combustion gases. Read on to learn how removing the fat cap from meat, keeping the meat moist, and cooking low and...
> 
> 
> 
> amazingribs.com



This is the article I read in the past about it!  Thanks for the link its super informative :)


----------



## bill1

NO is all show and no go.  The chemicals that truly produce the best smoke flavor are produced by "burning" wood at low temps.  The higher temps that produce NO (given adequate O2, which requires air flow, which is another issue with electric smokers) are actually counterproductive.  

If you simply must have a smoke ring, salting your meat beforehand with pink curing salt (Prague Powder #1) which is 1/16 sodium nitrite and the remainder normal salt, will do the trick.  

Take it easy, the stuff can kill ya'.  But if you really want the smoke ring...


----------



## tallbm

bill1 said:


> NO is all show and no go.  The chemicals that truly produce the best smoke flavor are produced by "burning" wood at low temps.  The higher temps that produce NO (given adequate O2, which requires air flow, which is another issue with electric smokers) are actually counterproductive.
> 
> If you simply must have a smoke ring, salting your meat beforehand with pink curing salt (Prague Powder #1) which is 1/16 sodium nitrite and the remainder normal salt, will do the trick.
> 
> Take it easy, the stuff can kill ya'.  But if you really want the smoke ring...



I run a mailbox mod with my MES so I have some wiggle room to goof around with this.
Yeah i've read where people will use cure to give the smoke ring appearance but I'm not one to do that as I don't want to change the flavor profile and as u know cure is not to be trifled with haha.


----------



## Blunderbuss

Was just thinking...do you need to rewire at all if you just tell the smoker you want max temp internally? Won't that effectively bypass the controller by using it's own logic to force it to an always-on state?


----------



## chopsaw

Blunderbuss said:


> Was just thinking...do you need to rewire at all if you just tell the smoker you want max temp internally? Won't that effectively bypass the controller by using it's own logic to force it to an always-on state?


On analog yes . On Digital no .  The re wire also lets you keep the limit switch in the circuit . I had mine over run on Thanksgiving and it cycled on the limit .


----------



## Blunderbuss

got it, thanks! I'm doing my first smoke today, and as everyone has said the MES40 fluctuates with a 20 degree range. An Auber is starting to look nice... :)


----------



## tallbm

Blunderbuss said:


> got it, thanks! I'm doing my first smoke today, and as everyone has said the MES40 fluctuates with a 20 degree range. An Auber is starting to look nice... :)



Chopsaw is correct.  Most people's MES dont ever actually hit hit max temp and then it does a fluctuation.  That would interefere with the PID's ability to take to max temp and to avoid fluctuations at the top end of the heat temp setting limit.


----------



## Blunderbuss

I was able to do a very simple and nondestructive rewire that leaves all the original functionality - the interior light, the door-open warning chime, even bluetooth (as useless as it is) and the original temp. sensor. The smooth white and braided blue cables are the plug and controller neutral, and are already connected to each other at the board - so I left them. Then, to remove the relay from the circuit (preventing the stock controller from doing anything to the heating element), I detached the braided red cable and used needlenose pliers to open its connection. I then fit it around the smooth black hot-plug cable and used the pliers to make sure it was solidly on there. By leaving the smooth black plugged into the relay, the rest of the box gets the power it expects; but the heating element also sees that full power, rather than sitting on the other side of the relay from it.  If I ever want to undo this, all I have to do is slip off the red braided cable and put it back onto the relay post. No wire cutting, stripping, or wire-nuts required at all.


----------



## tallbm

Blunderbuss said:


> I was able to do a very simple and nondestructive rewire that leaves all the original functionality - the interior light, the door-open warning chime, even bluetooth (as useless as it is) and the original temp. sensor. The smooth white and braided blue cables are the plug and controller neutral, and are already connected to each other at the board - so I left them. Then, to remove the relay from the circuit (preventing the stock controller from doing anything to the heating element), I detached the braided red cable and used needlenose pliers to open its connection. I then fit it around the smooth black hot-plug cable and used the pliers to make sure it was solidly on there. By leaving the smooth black plugged into the relay, the rest of the box gets the power it expects; but the heating element also sees that full power, rather than sitting on the other side of the relay from it.  If I ever want to undo this, all I have to do is slip off the red braided cable and put it back onto the relay post. No wire cutting, stripping, or wire-nuts required at all.



Sounds cool!  Let us know how it works out and what you make with your first smoke post mod :D


----------



## TXsmokerinDFW

I have a Masterbuilt SE model #20075515 and it stopped heating. I replaced the heating element but that did nothing. Masterbuilt suggested it was the control panel or the power control board, but you can no longer buy those parts anywhere. The control panel all works fine, I replaced the relay switch on the power control board, after doing that it now gets the "click" sound when powering up and setting the temp, yet still no heat. Multimeter shows the heating element(s) (I tried with both the old and the new) are getting power, yet still no heat. Any suggestions on what else to try, or should I go for this PID rewire I keep reading about?


----------



## tallbm

TXsmokerinDFW said:


> I have a Masterbuilt SE model #20075515 and it stopped heating. I replaced the heating element but that did nothing. Masterbuilt suggested it was the control panel or the power control board, but you can no longer buy those parts anywhere. The control panel all works fine, I replaced the relay switch on the power control board, after doing that it now gets the "click" sound when powering up and setting the temp, yet still no heat. Multimeter shows the heating element(s) (I tried with both the old and the new) are getting power, yet still no heat. Any suggestions on what else to try, or should I go for this PID rewire I keep reading about?



Hi there and welcome!

I common failure point is the safety rollout limit switch.
Now you may be getting power at first to the element but if the connectors are loose or failing at the safety rollout limit switch it will heat up and think the smoker temp is over 300F and cut power off to the element.

If you look inside your smoker against the back wall it will be a quarter sized circle sensor.
If you have an access panel to get to it, it will be in the same location but on the back wall of the smoker.  Check that out.  You can always wire around the switch to get by or replace with an existing .  These EXACT ones are replacements.  There are 2 styles and one style wont work at all this EXACT listing is the style that will work so dont let less expensive prices steer you to buy the wrong part:

Also use some hi temp connectors at the switch and at the heating element. 
Check that out and let us know if that is the issue.  If it is not then you can talk PID controller and rewire if you cannot find the current issue :)


----------



## Blunderbuss

Anyone have PID settings for MES40 +  Auber WSD-1500H-W  ?


----------



## TXsmokerinDFW

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> I common failure point is the safety rollout limit switch.
> Now you may be getting power at first to the element but if the connectors are loose or failing at the safety rollout limit switch it will heat up and think the smoker temp is over 300F and cut power off to the element.
> 
> If you look inside your smoker against the back wall it will be a quarter sized circle sensor.
> If you have an access panel to get to it, it will be in the same location but on the back wall of the smoker.  Check that out.  You can always wire around the switch to get by or replace with an existing .  These EXACT ones are replacements.  There are 2 styles and one style wont work at all this EXACT listing is the style that will work so dont let less expensive prices steer you to buy the wrong part:
> 
> Also use some hi temp connectors at the switch and at the heating element.
> Check that out and let us know if that is the issue.  If it is not then you can talk PID controller and rewire if you cannot find the current issue :)



The safety rollout limit switch was the culprit. The Amazon delivery arrived late Sunday morning, and within minutes, I had the MES up and running , even with the old heating element. Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it!


----------



## tallbm

TXsmokerinDFW said:


> The safety rollout limit switch was the culprit. The Amazon delivery arrived late Sunday morning, and within minutes, I had the MES up and running , even with the old heating element. Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it!



Glad that fixed the issue and you have more backups :)


----------



## tallbm

Blunderbuss said:


> Anyone have PID settings for MES40 +  Auber WSD-1500H-W  ?



I don't but hopefully someone will reply with some settings :)


----------



## lunchboxfl

Ok so my MES30 is finally acting up so I decided to go full bore and get the  AW-WST1510H-W controller. I need to do this wire re-work in order to use this correct.  Also are there any here is what you should set etc. I have never used a PID, but from what people have been saying it is the way to go. Thanks for any input.


----------



## tallbm

lunchboxfl said:


> Ok so my MES30 is finally acting up so I decided to go full bore and get the  AW-WST1510H-W controller. I need to do this wire re-work in order to use this correct.  Also are there any here is what you should set etc. I have never used a PID, but from what people have been saying it is the way to go. Thanks for any input.



Hi there and welcome!

Correct, you must rewire to your MES30 to use the PID.

Try it stock settings with your smoker empty and temp probe clipped under the center of the lowest rack (yes lowest rack). If it works fine then try a test smoke on something you can't mess up like a Pork Butt.
Season pork butt with Salt, Pepper, Onion, Paprika (no sugar) and set PID to 275F to see how it behaves at top temp.

If it doesn't initially work well with the pork butt then I would use 

 chopsaw
 's MES30 PID settings of " P=10, I=208 and D=210".
Doing a pork butt allows you a lot of time to see how it behaves and enough time to make adjustments and since it's a pork butt you won't mess it up as long as you keep going and you pull the pork butt when you can stab all over with a kabob skewer and it is tender (test at 203F internal temp of meat)  :)

I hope this info helps!


----------



## Buttinator

My Masterbuilt 20075315 is as dead as Thomas Jefferson. Won't turn on at all. Masterbuilt support is of course worthless, and the controller is no longer made. Not having read anything, I opened the back panels and found some severely corroded connectors and fixed them, but now having read these threads, I realize they are the Heating Element connectors. 

Anyway, I'm about to invert the smoker and access the panel (genius design guys, put the panel on the bottom and rivet it ). I'm assuming the wires are corroded like the Heating Element connectors. I'd like to test it before springing for a PID. But what else could it be? Pretty simple device if you bypass the motherboard, right?

I assume the  AW-WST1510H-W  is the gold standard these days? Definitely love the wifi idea so I can leave the house and keep tabs on things.

*EDIT:* Ok, obviously the 20075315 has some different wiring (and screws instead of rivets - I guess the MasterEngineers figured that one out ).







Think I found the failure point :







Looks like bypassing the control board could be done by just unplugging the plastic connectors and reconnecting the red and the black and white together? Would that leave the safety switch out of the loop?


----------



## tallbm

Buttinator said:


> My Masterbuilt 20075315 is as dead as Thomas Jefferson. Won't turn on at all. Masterbuilt support is of course worthless, and the controller is no longer made. Not having read anything, I opened the back panels and found some severely corroded connectors and fixed them, but now having read these threads, I realize they are the Heating Element connectors.
> 
> Anyway, I'm about to invert the smoker and access the panel (genius design guys, put the panel on the bottom and rivet it ). I'm assuming the wires are corroded like the Heating Element connectors. I'd like to test it before springing for a PID. But what else could it be? Pretty simple device if you bypass the motherboard, right?
> 
> I assume the  AW-WST1510H-W  is the gold standard these days? Definitely love the wifi idea so I can leave the house and keep tabs on things.



Hi there and welcome!

Looks like you are well on your way to converting your MES from a golf cart into a Ferrari! :D
To answer your questions:

* But what else could it be?      * Likely just that your top controller unit died.
*Pretty simple device if you bypass the motherboard, right? * Very simple. The rewire is cut ends off 4 wires then splice the correct ends to make 2 whole wires and now the plug feeds power to the heating element without any of the MES electronics in the mix :)
So with those answered here is a ton of other helpful info for you :)

There is another area where connectors often go bad but the problem is you may not have an access panel to it :(
It is the safety rollout limit switch. If you look INSIDE your MES and against the back wall about midway up (left side of smoker or center of smoker sometimes) you will see a round circle about the size of a quarter that is the safety rollout limit switch.






If you have a panel to it then awesome.  If not.... you will have to pull the back off OR carefully cut a panel about 6.5inches tall and 4.5inches wide on the BACK of the smoker to access that switch from behind.  The connectors fail here ALL THE TIME so having the panel is basically a must in my mind.

Get into that panel on the bottom (refasten with sheet metal screws) and see if anything is corroded or busted down there. It is uncommon for that control board to have issues but people have shown images of burned out components and corrosion there so it has happened.

If your top controller isn't working it is most often due to the top controller simply dying.

#1 failure point on an MES is the connectors at the heating element or safety rollout limit switch (controller still comes on but smoker won't heat)
#2 failure point is the top controller simply dies.

If your top controller is truly dead then the rewire and PID will solve it all for you. 

As you are doing all of this investigation replacing the  connectors at the heating element and safety rollout limit switch with hi temp connectors will do you well. 
Also cutting a panel for the safety rollout limit switch will save you in the future as that switch is cheap plastic crap that WILL melt down on you at some point so easy access helps.

Get those connectors changed and investigate the bottom board but I think your top controller simply died on you. You are making your MES stronger with all of your work so far and if you have to go the PID route you will have a beast of a smoker!!! All of us PID guys would never go back :D


----------



## Buttinator

OK, I bypassed the control unit by connecting the molex-type connectors, and plugged it in, and the smoker heated right up.  

Examining the control board, you can see what appears to be heat damage at the solder points for the lone MOSFET on the board, so yeah that MOSFET was probably fried:







Anyway, I'm looking at the  AW-WST1510H-W PID so I have WiFi. Is that pretty much the top recommended PID?







Thanks!


----------



## tallbm

Buttinator said:


> OK, I bypassed the control unit by connecting the molex-type connectors, and plugged it in, and the smoker heated right up.
> 
> Examining the control board, you can see what appears to be heat damage at the solder points for the lone MOSFET on the board, so yeah that MOSFET was probably fried:
> 
> View attachment 513413
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm looking at the  AW-WST1510H-W PID so I have WiFi. Is that pretty much the top recommended PID?
> 
> View attachment 513414
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Nice find on the damage to the board!

The top PID is the WS-1510ELPM but that's because it can handle an MES40 or 30, it's the lowest price, and it's simple.
Guys who get the Wifi version like the one you are looking at love it. Never seen a real complaint about it.

Speaking from experience in having a wifi PID, the wifi function seems way more useful than it is.  You only need 1 pellet flame up to realize that you can never really leave the smoker completely unattended unless you want to risk burning down the house.
The wifi on my HeaterMeter PID wore out and it hasn't slowed me down one bit.  
So armed with that knowledge you can understand that wifi isn't really as dynamic as it sounds.

The main thing is get what you know will make you happy.  Guys love the wifi unit but don't burn your house down because you went out playing golf while smoking a pork butt and a gust of wind turned your pellets into a flame and then your smoker into a fireball :D


----------



## lunchboxfl

Do the new screws go all the way into the bottom of the smoker. Got the ones stated and they seem really long.


----------



## chopsaw

Those are to long . Should just go thru the flange .
You want 1/2 " or 9 /16 wafer head tech or a pointed would work .


----------



## chopsaw

lunchboxfl
  If you have some silicone use that to hold it in place . Couple dabs on each of the sides . If you need to get back in there , use a utility knife to cut it loose .


----------



## lunchboxfl

chopsaw said:


> lunchboxfl
> If you have some silicone use that to hold it in place . Couple dabs on each of the sides . If you need to get back in there , use a utility knife to cut it loose .


I will do that. Thanks.

I did just do a test and noticed an 11 degree difference between the Auber and my therm pro. Any suggestions or if Auber may be right?


----------



## chopsaw

Is that a TP 20 or an 08 ? My TP 20 gave me trouble . 
MES 30 or 40 ? 
How do you have the temp probe for the Auber mounted , and is it in the same area as your other therm ?


----------



## lunchboxfl

chopsaw said:


> Is that a TP 20 or an 08 ? My TP 20 gave me trouble .
> MES 30 or 40 ?
> How do you have the temp probe for the Auber mounted , and is it in the same area as your other therm ?


TP 20 purchased 2017
MES 30
Both lower middle of rack


----------



## chopsaw

lunchboxfl said:


> TP 20 purchased 2017


Mine too . The probes should be lifetime  . I need to get 2 new ones , but I have so
many others I don't worry about it . 
My 20 would test good at boiling and in ice water , but in between it was way off . 

It's funny how the temps can differ in an MES . Even if just a bit apart . I think the Auber is more sensitive than any remote therm . Just my opinion . 
I have the multi use probe for mine . It can be used in water for SV so I've tested it at boiling . I don't know what yours has , so I'm not going to suggest you do that . I thought when I looked up your model it only had one choice for a probe that worked in  a smoker only . Mine doesn't have meat probes , just a temp control . 
Maybe try moving to a different location , or just hang both thru the top vent and see if it changes . That differential can be adjusted for read out if needed , but get a better  idea of which one is reading the true temp .


----------



## lunchboxfl

chopsaw said:


> Mine too . The probes should be lifetime  . I need to get 2 new ones , but I have so
> many others I don't worry about it .
> My 20 would test good at boiling and in ice water , but in between it was way off .
> 
> It's funny how the temps can differ in an MES . Even if just a bit apart . I think the Auber is more sensitive than any remote therm . Just my opinion .
> I have the multi use probe for mine . It can be used in water for SV so I've tested it at boiling . I don't know what yours has , so I'm not going to suggest you do that . I thought when I looked up your model it only had one choice for a probe that worked in  a smoker only . Mine doesn't have meat probes , just a temp control .
> Maybe try moving to a different location , or just hang both thru the top vent and see if it changes . That differential can be adjusted for read out if needed , but get a better  idea of which one is reading the true temp .


Will try that. Thanks


----------



## tallbm

lunchboxfl said:


> I will do that. Thanks.
> 
> I did just do a test and noticed an 11 degree difference between the Auber and my therm pro. Any suggestions or if Auber may be right?



Have you taken the Auber inside and done a boil test with it's probe to see if it measures 212F or close in boiling water?
The Auber probe is not water proof so what I do is I put the probe inside  a gallon freezer, in the corner of the bag.  When I submerge the probe wrapped in the bag the water pressure squeezes the air out of the bag and you can get a good reading.

You can test both your Auber and Thermopro probes this way.  If the Auber probe is off I THINK there is an "offset" setting on the Auber so you can add a thermometer adjustment.  If it reads 5 degrees low then change the offset so the thermometer reads 5 degrees higher than what it reports with no offset.  You get the idea, just tweak so it reflects a true/truer number :)

I hope this info helps and welcome to the PID club :D


----------



## chopsaw

tallbm said:


> If the Auber probe is off I THINK there is an "offset" setting


There is . I've been looking for the thread , or post where I went through it with someone . Can't find it . Might be buried in this thread somewhere . It gets mentioned a couple times . Post 76 and post 178 . So much good info in this thread it gets missed . 
The lock code is 155 , but find out what you're dealing with before you start changing values .


----------



## Icefever

Ok guys, I found this thread after posting about the problems yesterday with my new MES40.  I'll have all the parts together by the end of today.  I noticed yesterday that there's a small panel on the rear of the cabinet,  reading this very helpful thread on how to wire the smoker it shows taking a panel off the underside, I'm wondering did Masterbuilt change the layout???


----------



## chopsaw

The back panel should be access to the heating element , and the underside is the power input .


----------



## Icefever

chopsaw said:


> The back panel should be access to the heating element , and the underside is the power input .



Thank you...so stick to what I've read in the thread.


----------



## chopsaw

Yup . They are all a bit different , so if you get in there and have a question take time to ask . It's pretty simple really , but kind of intimidating at the same time . 
You could actually just hook the power cord to the element , but by doing the rewire you keep the limit switch in the circuit . That's how I have mine , and it did save me once . 
This is what's behind the back panel on my MES 30 .


----------



## tallbm

Icefever said:


> Ok guys, I found this thread after posting about the problems yesterday with my new MES40.  I'll have all the parts together by the end of today.  I noticed yesterday that there's a small panel on the rear of the cabinet,  reading this very helpful thread on how to wire the smoker it shows taking a panel off the underside, I'm wondering did Masterbuilt change the layout???
> View attachment 515148
> 
> 
> View attachment 515149



Hi there and welcome!



 chopsaw
 has your questions covered.

Since you are opening things up and rewiring anyhow it would be good to check the heating element wire connectors.  The cheap crappy spade wire connectors that Masterbuilt uses corrode and fail like crazy.  I've seen 3 month old MES units with horribly rusted and corroded connectors (mine) when kept out of the weather and with a cover.  

If you need high temp ones that would work these should do the trick:

Ask any questions you have, we'll get you hooked up. Also welcome to the PID club :D


----------



## Buttinator

I posted my report in the wrong place.  Anyway the Auber worked great with my Masterbuilt slave cabinet.  

I noticed the Auber has a heatsink on the bottom. The Auber is black and out in the sun (and on top of my smoker). Has anyone tried adding a fan to the Aubers? I was thinking either AC (via the smoke AC port) or solar. Too bad there are no USB or DC hookups on the Aubers.

Also does anyone know how to change the name of the Auber's probes in the app?


----------



## tallbm

Buttinator said:


> I posted my report in the wrong place.  Anyway the Auber worked great with my Masterbuilt slave cabinet.
> 
> I noticed the Auber has a heatsink on the bottom. The Auber is black and out in the sun (and on top of my smoker). Has anyone tried adding a fan to the Aubers? I was thinking either AC (via the smoke AC port) or solar. Too bad there are no USB or DC hookups on the Aubers.
> 
> Also does anyone know how to change the name of the Auber's probes in the app?



Nice!  I posted in your other thread but will repeat here for anyone who sees this thread.

Covering your Auber with some kind of shade shield and putting it on a board or something that get's it off the smoker should do the trick.  I would go super low tech if you want a fan and just buy a little nightstand fan and get a splitter extension cord cable and just put the fan to blow on the auber if heat is really an issue.  I think shade and lifting will do the trick.  I'm here in TX and that does it for the PID controllers here :)


----------



## Paintguru

Before I start cutting, my setup appears to be similar to the other newer units.  Attached is a pic of the control board.  I assume I just cut the circled 4 major wires (black, white, and 2 red) and splice them together and just yank the board, correct?


----------



## tallbm

Paintguru said:


> Before I start cutting, my setup appears to be similar to the other newer units.  Attached is a pic of the control board.  I assume I just cut the circled 4 major wires (black, white, and 2 red) and splice them together and just yank the board, correct?



You are correct!

Just make sure you splice Red to Smooth Black, and the the OTHER RED to smooth White.  This will do the trick.
You can toss the board you will never use it again :)


----------



## Paintguru

tallbm said:


> You are correct!
> 
> Just make sure you splice Red to Smooth Black, and the the OTHER RED to smooth White.  This will do the trick.
> You can toss the board you will never use it again :)



Thanks.  Everything worked great!  Love the Wifi Auber.


----------



## tallbm

Paintguru said:


> Thanks.  Everything worked great!  Love the Wifi Auber.


I'm glad to hear, welcome to the PID club!!

An update from my side.  I had to work on my MES today.  IT stopped heating during a turkey smoke.  Get this, corrosion at the heating element BUT it was actually the wire that had corrosion build up between the wire strands and the connector crimp.  it had built up like what happens with a car battery.

Identified it, cleaned it. re-crimped new connector and reattached.  All good now :)


----------



## JamskiBBQ

tallbm said:


> Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.
> 
> *Disclaimer:*  When messing with electrical equipment it is best to consult a local electrical professional to ensure things are done correctly.  Be safe and use caution.  I am not an electrician and with many things you hear or read, it is your responsibility to verify the information's validity and ensure you and others are safe.
> 
> Ok now on to rewiring info :)
> 
> *Smoker Referenced Below:*
> 
> MES 40 Gen1
> *Tools and Equipment (at a Minimum):*
> 
> A strong back or a 2nd body to help pick up the smoker and set on a table to be worked on
> Waist High Table - to put the smoker onto
> Needle Nose Plyers
> Wire Crimping Tool - one that crimps, strips, and cuts wires
> 14-16 AWG Butt Connectors, or Wire Nuts
> Drill
> 1/8" Drill Bit that can drill metal - to drill out circuit board rivets
> #12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fastener to refasten circuit board panel back on after rivets are removed.  3/4" long may also be good for this one panel but MAY be a little short.  I used 3/4" because that is what I used when pulled the back off my MES
> Drill Bit to drive the sheet metal screws (I used hex head fasteners but you may find hex + phillips head)
> Masking Tape/Electrical Tape - some kind of tape that can be used to mark a wire. U need no more than 1 inch worth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> missing-product
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Quick Explanation of the Process:*
> 
> The rewire is actually very simple and *does NOT require removing the back of the MES*.  What is being done is the following:
> 
> Take existing MES wiring and disconnecting it from the MES circuit board the controller is connected to
> Connect Hot wire that comes from MES plug, to Hot wire that leads to the safety Roll out Limit Switch & Heating Element
> Connect the Neutral wire that comes from the MES plug, to the Neutral wire that leads to the Heating element
> Done!
> When done, the MES controller will be bypassed and will receive no electricity.  Also the safety mechanism (safety roll out limit switch) will still do it's job and cut off power to the heating element should the heat limit be exceeded.  The switch will auto reset after a while and when it does electricity will again be able to flow to the heating element.
> 
> IMPORTANT: If you plug the rewired MES into the wall there is NOTHING to control the electricity to the element.  If plugged in, the MES will simply just suck electricity and heat up as a dumb circuit.  This is why a 3rd party controller like a PID controller is needed.
> 
> The PID controller will control the on/off flow of electricity to the heating element according to the set temperature and the temp the PID controller is reading with a probe from within the smoker.
> 
> *Simple Rewire Steps:*
> 
> The process should really take between 30 minutes and 2 hours based on how you work, preperation, and confidence/comfort level with the tools and the process.
> 
> UNPLUG the MES!!!!
> Get the MES up on a table laying flat on it's back or on the front.  If you lay it on the front (what I did) be sure not to break the glass window in the door... just use caution
> Using the 1/8" drill bit and a drill, drill out the rivets on the bottom panel of the MES.
> 
> The bottom panel is identified by the green square, everything outside of the green square is irrelevant for this step.
> The red arrows identify some rivets on the PANEL.  ONLY drill out the panel rivets inside the green square, NOT the rivets outside the green square.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> circuitPanel.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should see an image similar to the one below but it may be slightly different.  Don't worry if it is slightly different because we will be able to easily identify the wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> openedPannel.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use your hand or the Needle Nose Plyers to disconnect the wires listed below:
> Plug Hot Wire - Smooth Black color wire
> Plug Neutral Wire - Smooth White color wire
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element Hot Wire - Black Braided wire
> Heating Element Neutral Wire - Black Braided wire - yes looks just like wire #3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> numberedWires.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMPORTANT:  Ignore any other tiny wires that may come out of the upper right hole of the compartment.  These can be any color (black, green, white, white braided wire, etc.).  *They will be noticeably thinner than the real wires!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ignore1.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Identify and use a piece of tape Label the black braided wires:
> Heating Element NEUTRAL Black Braided wire - Comes out of upper LEFT hole
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element HOT Black Braided wire comes out of the upper RIGHT hole
> 
> The key here is to identify the hole that the wire comes out of.  Use a piece of tape to flag the wires for quick identification.  If you accidentally splice the wires it should be OK and all should still work safely and fine.  The thing is the wiring is not TECHNICALLY accurate which may lead to some confusion about which wire goes where.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> braidedHoles.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut and splice wires together.  Use butt connectors, wire nuts, or any electrical connectors to splice the wires.  JUST BE SURE that the connections are tight!!! You want no wiggle between the connection because that causes resistance and resistance causes heat and that will burn up the wire, wiring, etc. which is bad!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> numberedWires.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connect wires #1 and #3.  Notice they should both come out of the upper right hole/port.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSC_0303[1].JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connect wires #2 and #4.  Notice the white wire comes out of the upper right hole/port and the black braided wire comes out of the upper left hole/port.  The pic is bad so I tried to erase extra wires and used a Green line to trace the wire and connections.  I hope it gives the proper visual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> neutralRewire.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When all wired up it should look like the image below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSC_0302[1].JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use the sheet metal screws to fasten the panel back on through the rivet holes.
> Safely put the smoker back on the ground
> Open the smoker door and plug in the MES to the wall outlet.  You should feel that it is heating and if you leave it on long enough you will see the element start turning color showing heat.
> Well that is it.  This approach is about as simple as it gets to rewire a Gen1 MES.  Now every MES generation and model may be a little different but the idea for rewiring is still the same.
> 
> *Additional Rewire Considerations*:
> 
> This post is simply showing how to rewire for a 3d party controller to be used, BUT it does not address some week points of the MES wiring.  I will note some improvements that should be considered because they are common issues with the MES that you will likely run into an need to fix at some point.
> 
> Replace the Heating Element connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors - the MES uses poor electrical connectors on the wires that connect to the heating element.  They don't seem to be able to stand up to the heat of the element very well and corrode easily.  Mine showed signs of corrosion after 3 months of use!!!  Google the following connectors as good replacement options:
> Supco T1111c (typical female spade), or Supco T1113c (flag style female spade)
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Replace the Safety Rollout Limit Switch connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors  - as stated above the connectors that MES uses are poor and corrode easily.  The connectors here suffere the same issue.
> The big issue is that most MES smokers do not have a panel to access the rollout limit switch.  In this case, you must remove the back of the MES to get to the rollout limit switch
> Consider cutting and creating a panel to access this switch in the future
> The rollout limit switch is a little delicate so if you happen to damage it go to Amazon and search for:  KSD301  for replacement switches should you knock a tab loose or bend it or damage it in any way.
> 
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Best of luck guys and remember to be safe and enjoy smoking! :)



Thanks again, I got the Jest of the project. My connections look different, I will need to trace or continuity test the leads from the heating element. I have to go back and look at the specifics. I have 2 access points below my MES. 1 for the main electrical feed and another for a controller in the base of the unit. This second access panel is where I think I will find the Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element. If so I may have to run some wires to make this connection, but I believe there should be existing wires/connections.

Guess I will order the PID tomorrow and keep you posted on the progress.

Regards,
James


----------



## fxsales1959

tallbm said:


> Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.
> 
> *Disclaimer:*  When messing with electrical equipment it is best to consult a local electrical professional to ensure things are done correctly.  Be safe and use caution.  I am not an electrician and with many things you hear or read, it is your responsibility to verify the information's validity and ensure you and others are safe.
> 
> Ok now on to rewiring info :)
> 
> *Smoker Referenced Below:*
> 
> MES 40 Gen1
> *Tools and Equipment (at a Minimum):*
> 
> A strong back or a 2nd body to help pick up the smoker and set on a table to be worked on
> Waist High Table - to put the smoker onto
> Needle Nose Plyers
> Wire Crimping Tool - one that crimps, strips, and cuts wires
> 14-16 AWG Butt Connectors, or Wire Nuts
> Drill
> 1/8" Drill Bit that can drill metal - to drill out circuit board rivets
> #12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fastener to refasten circuit board panel back on after rivets are removed.  3/4" long may also be good for this one panel but MAY be a little short.  I used 3/4" because that is what I used when pulled the back off my MES
> Drill Bit to drive the sheet metal screws (I used hex head fasteners but you may find hex + phillips head)
> Masking Tape/Electrical Tape - some kind of tape that can be used to mark a wire. U need no more than 1 inch worth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> missing-product
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Quick Explanation of the Process:*
> 
> The rewire is actually very simple and *does NOT require removing the back of the MES*.  What is being done is the following:
> 
> Take existing MES wiring and disconnecting it from the MES circuit board the controller is connected to
> Connect Hot wire that comes from MES plug, to Hot wire that leads to the safety Roll out Limit Switch & Heating Element
> Connect the Neutral wire that comes from the MES plug, to the Neutral wire that leads to the Heating element
> Done!
> When done, the MES controller will be bypassed and will receive no electricity.  Also the safety mechanism (safety roll out limit switch) will still do it's job and cut off power to the heating element should the heat limit be exceeded.  The switch will auto reset after a while and when it does electricity will again be able to flow to the heating element.
> 
> IMPORTANT: If you plug the rewired MES into the wall there is NOTHING to control the electricity to the element.  If plugged in, the MES will simply just suck electricity and heat up as a dumb circuit.  This is why a 3rd party controller like a PID controller is needed.
> 
> The PID controller will control the on/off flow of electricity to the heating element according to the set temperature and the temp the PID controller is reading with a probe from within the smoker.
> 
> *Simple Rewire Steps:*
> 
> The process should really take between 30 minutes and 2 hours based on how you work, preperation, and confidence/comfort level with the tools and the process.
> 
> UNPLUG the MES!!!!
> Get the MES up on a table laying flat on it's back or on the front.  If you lay it on the front (what I did) be sure not to break the glass window in the door... just use caution
> Using the 1/8" drill bit and a drill, drill out the rivets on the bottom panel of the MES.
> 
> The bottom panel is identified by the green square, everything outside of the green square is irrelevant for this step.
> The red arrows identify some rivets on the PANEL.  ONLY drill out the panel rivets inside the green square, NOT the rivets outside the green square.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> circuitPanel.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should see an image similar to the one below but it may be slightly different.  Don't worry if it is slightly different because we will be able to easily identify the wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> openedPannel.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use your hand or the Needle Nose Plyers to disconnect the wires listed below:
> Plug Hot Wire - Smooth Black color wire
> Plug Neutral Wire - Smooth White color wire
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element Hot Wire - Black Braided wire
> Heating Element Neutral Wire - Black Braided wire - yes looks just like wire #3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> numberedWires.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMPORTANT:  Ignore any other tiny wires that may come out of the upper right hole of the compartment.  These can be any color (black, green, white, white braided wire, etc.).  *They will be noticeably thinner than the real wires!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ignore1.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Identify and use a piece of tape Label the black braided wires:
> Heating Element NEUTRAL Black Braided wire - Comes out of upper LEFT hole
> Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element HOT Black Braided wire comes out of the upper RIGHT hole
> 
> The key here is to identify the hole that the wire comes out of.  Use a piece of tape to flag the wires for quick identification.  If you accidentally splice the wires it should be OK and all should still work safely and fine.  The thing is the wiring is not TECHNICALLY accurate which may lead to some confusion about which wire goes where.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> braidedHoles.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut and splice wires together.  Use butt connectors, wire nuts, or any electrical connectors to splice the wires.  JUST BE SURE that the connections are tight!!! You want no wiggle between the connection because that causes resistance and resistance causes heat and that will burn up the wire, wiring, etc. which is bad!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> numberedWires.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connect wires #1 and #3.  Notice they should both come out of the upper right hole/port.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSC_0303[1].JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connect wires #2 and #4.  Notice the white wire comes out of the upper right hole/port and the black braided wire comes out of the upper left hole/port.  The pic is bad so I tried to erase extra wires and used a Green line to trace the wire and connections.  I hope it gives the proper visual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> neutralRewire.png
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ Aug 19, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When all wired up it should look like the image below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSC_0302[1].JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ tallbm
> __ May 6, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use the sheet metal screws to fasten the panel back on through the rivet holes.
> Safely put the smoker back on the ground
> Open the smoker door and plug in the MES to the wall outlet.  You should feel that it is heating and if you leave it on long enough you will see the element start turning color showing heat.
> Well that is it.  This approach is about as simple as it gets to rewire a Gen1 MES.  Now every MES generation and model may be a little different but the idea for rewiring is still the same.
> 
> *Additional Rewire Considerations*:
> 
> This post is simply showing how to rewire for a 3d party controller to be used, BUT it does not address some week points of the MES wiring.  I will note some improvements that should be considered because they are common issues with the MES that you will likely run into an need to fix at some point.
> 
> Replace the Heating Element connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors - the MES uses poor electrical connectors on the wires that connect to the heating element.  They don't seem to be able to stand up to the heat of the element very well and corrode easily.  Mine showed signs of corrosion after 3 months of use!!!  Google the following connectors as good replacement options:
> Supco T1111c (typical female spade), or Supco T1113c (flag style female spade)
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Replace the Safety Rollout Limit Switch connectors with Hi Temp Stainless Steel female spade connectors  - as stated above the connectors that MES uses are poor and corrode easily.  The connectors here suffere the same issue.
> The big issue is that most MES smokers do not have a panel to access the rollout limit switch.  In this case, you must remove the back of the MES to get to the rollout limit switch
> Consider cutting and creating a panel to access this switch in the future
> The rollout limit switch is a little delicate so if you happen to damage it go to Amazon and search for:  KSD301  for replacement switches should you knock a tab loose or bend it or damage it in any way.
> 
> 
> Again, be sure the connectors are on completely and are crimped complete!  You want NO wiggle.  Keep working until you get the proper connection.
> 
> Best of luck guys and remember to be safe and enjoy smoking! :)


very nice write up and tutorial. I am at my wits end with (2) MES30's exhibiting different symptoms. Masterbuilt tech are dick heads and due to my limitd dexterity due to stroke I am at my wits end. Right now I have to "ride th board" and keep a close eye out on internal temps on one unit that doesnt like to not turn off element and scorches to 300 degres. The other sems to turn on and off, but the internal tmp(as mesure by gate level inkbird probe, is typically 25 degrees higher than displayed tmp on PID (I think that;s what it is cslled.
that's all
thank you
john


----------



## tallbm

JamskiBBQ said:


> Thanks again, I got the Jest of the project. My connections look different, I will need to trace or continuity test the leads from the heating element. I have to go back and look at the specifics. I have 2 access points below my MES. 1 for the main electrical feed and another for a controller in the base of the unit. This second access panel is where I think I will find the Rollout Limit Switch & Heating Element. If so I may have to run some wires to make this connection, but I believe there should be existing wires/connections.
> 
> Guess I will order the PID tomorrow and keep you posted on the progress.
> 
> Regards,
> James



You have correctly identified the 2 panels blow your MES.
Yep, the panel that has the circuit board will have have all wires running to it.

The bigger 16AWG size braided wires (braid color may be different than below) will be the ones that run to the Heating element and to the Safety Rollout Limit switch which then runs again to the other connector the heating element.  So for example in this picture:


Wire#4 runs directly to the Heating Element prong1
Wire#3 runs to the Safety Rollout Limit Switch
From the Safety Rollout Limit switch #3 will continue to the Heating Element prong2










Wire#1 is the Hot wire from the MES plug
Wire#2 is the Neutral wire from the MES plug
If you unhook the braided wires from the circuit board AND unhook the braided wires from the heating element you can do a continuity check with your multimeter and identify which ends match up.  What it wont tell you is which which wire has the safety rollout limit switch in the mix, but we'll get to that later.

The simple rewire would be to unhook wires 1-4, cut off their ends.
Then splice a smooth wire (1 or 2) with a braided wire (3 or 4), order does not matter.  The only thing that matters is that a smooth goes to a braided.  Once each smooth is spliced to a braided you are done!

Back to the Safety Rollout Limit Switch now.
On the Back of your MES (not under) you will find a panel for the heating element.
If you have a 2nd panel about halfway up (middle or right side usually) then THAT panel will be the Safety Rollout Limit Switch.

If you have no 2nd panel halfway up... well you probably want to cut one because that switch is a major failure point for both the connectors corroding away AND the cheap plastic switch melting down once the connectors begin corroding.  I'd bet money the connectors are already corroding because that's what the Masterbuilt connectors do best :D
If you don't care to mess with the switch and it is working then feel free to stop reading here, if it fails on you later (smoker wont heat up) then start reading again from this point :D

If you look INSIDE your MES on the back wall you will see a round button looking thing the size of a quarter.  That is the Safety Rollout Limit Switch.






Use a tape measure and you can figure out where it is located on the back OUTSIDE of the MES.  You will want to cut yourself a panel to get to this thing.  So cut about a 6inch tall by 4 inch wide rectangle here and then cover with a piece of sheet metal and self tapping sheet metal screws when done, panel created!
I would use a dremel or oscillating tool with a blade that can cut through thin metal and carefully make the cut.  There is usually a box covering the switch that you have to unscrew off to get to the switch so chances are you won't cut a wire but it may still happen :)

I hope all this info helps :)




fxsales1959 said:


> very nice write up and tutorial. I am at my wits end with (2) MES30's exhibiting different symptoms. Masterbuilt tech are dick heads and due to my limitd dexterity due to stroke I am at my wits end. Right now I have to "ride th board" and keep a close eye out on internal temps on one unit that doesnt like to not turn off element and scorches to 300 degres. The other sems to turn on and off, but the internal tmp(as mesure by gate level inkbird probe, is typically 25 degrees higher than displayed tmp on PID (I think that;s what it is cslled.
> that's all
> thank you
> john



Hi John.

Well sounds like the MES that doesn't want to shut off probably has a faulty circuit board in the panel underneath the MES.  I doubt you can find the replacement circuit board bit if so that would be a simple fix.  Without a replacement circuit board your only option is the simple rewire and a PID controller.

The other MES that does cut on/off but runs hotter may actually be a blessing in disguise.  It seems most often that an MES unit WONT hit max 275F instead of going over it hahhaa.
If yours cuts off/on but swings high then you should be able to lower your set temperature and wing it from there.  Not a bad problem to have.

Now temp swings suck no matter what but the swings are what Masterbuilt uses unfortunately so they can ensure wood chips burn.
The only surefire wire to eliminate the temp swings is a rewire and  PID controller.
I think with this unit you may be able to just lower your set temp and be good to go, but yeah still a little dissapointing.


Now a rewire is not hard to do when it comes to the electrical work BUT you may definitely want someone to help pick the thing up and flip it around etc.  They are not feathers for sure and I lift mine onto a heavy duty foldout table to work on them so I'm not laying on the ground or squatting all day. 
This will be the most difficult part for you by far.

If you decide you want to do the rewires and put in PID controllers let us know.  We have the knowledge here to help.  You will have to source the muscle though :D


----------



## Skyhawk

OK, so this is my first post on this forum.  Looks like there is a lot of good information here.
So I got a used 30" Masterbuilt smoker from a brother-in-law about a year ago.  It was only used a few times to roast a couple turkeys.  For whatever reason, he no longer wanted it.
I bought it from him and cleaned it up a bit and tried cooking a small 4 lb. pork butt in it.  I put it in at 0900, and cooked it slow at 205 degrees all day long with smoke.  When I pulled it out at 7:00 at night it was still for the most part raw.  So into the slow cooker it went for several more hours to finish cooking.  The controller on the smoker is so far off it is unusable.  I checked into ordering parts and the price was almost 200.00 for parts.  Absolutely ridiculous.  Further, everyone seems to have the same problem with these smokers.
I searched the web and found a video on smoker repair.  They wire in a PID Temp controller that comes in a kit with probe and solid-state relay with heat sink.  I'm still waiting for it to arrive in the mail, but in the meantime have continued on with the modification.  My controller will be mounted in a nice aluminum electrical panel, and I am attaching it a few inches below the rear handle so that I can still cover the smoker with its cover.  I also ordered a nice meat thermometer with probes and a wireless unit for monitoring.  My smoker is like the one in this video, but in much better shape.  I will let you know how this all works out for me!  I currently have the aluminum box mounted with rivets on the smoker, waiting for the electronics to arrive.  I am also adding a lighted red LED push button switch for on/off power control, and wiring in a 25' orange extension cord for the power cord (cutting off the female receptacle and hard wiring to the controller).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsO83_x_7U

www.amazon.com/Twidec-MV100-B10-Temperature-Controllers-Thermostat/dp/B07LCYWCB1?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

www.amazon.com/Eightwood-Extruded-Aluminum-Electronic-Enclosure/dp/B0107WTZHE/ref=sr_1_16?crid=4EMPOYIKOVIP&keywords=Silver+Aluminum+Project+Box+Enclosure+Case+8"+x+5.7"+x+2.7"+203x144x68mm&qid=1642449916&s=industrial&sprefix=silver+aluminum+project+box+enclosure+case+8+x+5.7+x+2.7+203x144x68mm%2Cindustrial%2C31&sr=1-16

www.amazon.com/Wireless-Thermometer-Grilling-Accurate-Digital/dp/B08M6CB1KD/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2L3R36XO590KS&keywords=luyata+meat+thermometer&qid=1642449192&sprefix=luyata+meat+%2Caps%2C39&sr=8-2


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> OK, so this is my first post on this forum.  Looks like there is a lot of good information here.
> So I got a used 30" Masterbuilt smoker from a brother-in-law about a year ago.  It was only used a few times to roast a couple turkeys.  For whatever reason, he no longer wanted it.
> I bought it from him and cleaned it up a bit and tried cooking a small 4 lb. pork butt in it.  I put it in at 0900, and cooked it slow at 205 degrees all day long with smoke.  When I pulled it out at 7:00 at night it was still for the most part raw.  So into the slow cooker it went for several more hours to finish cooking.  The controller on the smoker is so far off it is unusable.  I checked into ordering parts and the price was almost 200.00 for parts.  Absolutely ridiculous.  Further, everyone seems to have the same problem with these smokers.
> I searched the web and found a video on smoker repair.  They wire in a PID Temp controller that comes in a kit with probe and solid-state relay with heat sink.  I'm still waiting for it to arrive in the mail, but in the meantime have continued on with the modification.  My controller will be mounted in a nice aluminum electrical panel, and I am attaching it a few inches below the rear handle so that I can still cover the smoker with its cover.  I also ordered a nice meat thermometer with probes and a wireless unit for monitoring.  My smoker is like the one in this video, but in much better shape.  I will let you know how this all works out for me!  I currently have the aluminum box mounted with rivets on the smoker, waiting for the electronics to arrive.  I am also adding a lighted red LED push button switch for on/off power control, and wiring in a 25' orange extension cord for the power cord (cutting off the female receptacle and hard wiring to the controller).
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsO83_x_7U
> 
> www.amazon.com/Twidec-MV100-B10-Temperature-Controllers-Thermostat/dp/B07LCYWCB1?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1
> 
> www.amazon.com/Eightwood-Extruded-Aluminum-Electronic-Enclosure/dp/B0107WTZHE/ref=sr_1_16?crid=4EMPOYIKOVIP&keywords=Silver+Aluminum+Project+Box+Enclosure+Case+8"+x+5.7"+x+2.7"+203x144x68mm&qid=1642449916&s=industrial&sprefix=silver+aluminum+project+box+enclosure+case+8+x+5.7+x+2.7+203x144x68mm%2Cindustrial%2C31&sr=1-16
> 
> www.amazon.com/Wireless-Thermometer-Grilling-Accurate-Digital/dp/B08M6CB1KD/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2L3R36XO590KS&keywords=luyata+meat+thermometer&qid=1642449192&sprefix=luyata+meat+%2Caps%2C39&sr=8-2


Hi there and welcome!

I hope this thread has all the info you need to do the simple rewire if that's the route you are choosing.  I watched the video and he just wired power directly to the heating element.  With the simple rewire instructions here you are doing the same thing but doing it so that the MES plug feeds power to the heating element.

A word of caution.  I noticed in the youtube video that he put his PID temp probe at the top of his smoker.  I have a little concern that the lower half of his smoker is going to get really hot when he runs at 275F  since 275F would be measured at the top of his smoker very far away from the heating element.

I didn't hard wire my PID probe I instead put an alligator clip on it and I clip it to the center of the lowest rack from underneath.  I find that it gets the fastest response time in measuring the temp and allowing the PID to control things.  Now my upper racks won't be as hot as air escapes but that's ok I just smoke on the lower 2 racks AND I always use my remote thermometer probes to measure temp on rack level anyhow.  I always know what my smoker is doing where the meat is cooking.

I think you are well on your way buddy and once you get your setup tweaked/tuned with your PID setup, it will be the best electric smoker you can have for the money... besides a bigger MES40 rewired to use a PID :D

Let us know how it goes and ask any questions you have :)


----------



## Skyhawk

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> I hope this thread has all the info you need to do the simple rewire if that's the route you are choosing.  I watched the video and he just wired power directly to the heating element.  With the simple rewire instructions here you are doing the same thing but doing it so that the MES plug feeds power to the heating element.
> 
> A word of caution.  I noticed in the youtube video that he put his PID temp probe at the top of his smoker.  I have a little concern that the lower half of his smoker is going to get really hot when he runs at 275F  since 275F would be measured at the top of his smoker very far away from the heating element.
> 
> I didn't hard wire my PID probe I instead put an alligator clip on it and I clip it to the center of the lowest rack from underneath.  I find that it gets the fastest response time in measuring the temp and allowing the PID to control things.  Now my upper racks won't be as hot as air escapes but that's ok I just smoke on the lower 2 racks AND I always use my remote thermometer probes to measure temp on rack level anyhow.  I always know what my smoker is doing where the meat is cooking.
> 
> I think you are well on your way buddy and once you get your setup tweaked/tuned with your PID setup, it will be the best electric smoker you can have for the money... besides a bigger MES40 rewired to use a PID :D
> 
> Let us know how it goes and ask any questions you have :)





tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> I hope this thread has all the info you need to do the simple rewire if that's the route you are choosing.  I watched the video and he just wired power directly to the heating element.  With the simple rewire instructions here you are doing the same thing but doing it so that the MES plug feeds power to the heating element.
> 
> A word of caution.  I noticed in the youtube video that he put his PID temp probe at the top of his smoker.  I have a little concern that the lower half of his smoker is going to get really hot when he runs at 275F  since 275F would be measured at the top of his smoker very far away from the heating element.
> 
> I didn't hard wire my PID probe I instead put an alligator clip on it and I clip it to the center of the lowest rack from underneath.  I find that it gets the fastest response time in measuring the temp and allowing the PID to control things.  Now my upper racks won't be as hot as air escapes but that's ok I just smoke on the lower 2 racks AND I always use my remote thermometer probes to measure temp on rack level anyhow.  I always know what my smoker is doing where the meat is cooking.
> 
> I think you are well on your way buddy and once you get your setup tweaked/tuned with your PID setup, it will be the best electric smoker you can have for the money... besides a bigger MES40 rewired to use a PID :D
> 
> Let us know how it goes and ask any questions you have :)


Hi and Thanks for your reply.
I will keep you posted on how this goes.  I ordered my PID Controller about a month ago, and it should be arriving soon.  There will be some time spent mounting the components, and then switching the PID setting from Celsius to   Fahrenheit.  I believe the controller is being shipped from China... as almost everything comes from China now a days.
The probe mounting that you mention makes sense.  Post a picture of your probe if you can, I might do the same and put it on a stainless steel alligator clip (if I can find one!)   Thanks  :)


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> Hi and Thanks for your reply.
> I will keep you posted on how this goes.  I ordered my PID Controller about a month ago, and it should be arriving soon.  There will be some time spent mounting the components, and then switching the PID setting from Celsius to   Fahrenheit.  I believe the controller is being shipped from China... as almost everything comes from China now a days.
> The probe mounting that you mention makes sense.  Post a picture of your probe if you can, I might do the same and put it on a stainless steel alligator clip (if I can find one!)   Thanks  :)


Here u go. I run the wire underneath the rack and then clip to a wire.
I turn the clip so that the "squeeze" part also sits on top of a bar so it is very secure and wont fall off.
I also then just put a piece of foil over the thing so grease to protect it from grease and drippings.






FYI, haven't cleaned the smoker for next use yet.


----------



## Skyhawk

So I was thinking about this today at work.  I need to do your modification to retain the safety rollout limit switch..., and make the small cutout panel in the back for access.  While I'm in there is there a test for that switch?  Am I looking for a resistance value or a closed circuit?  
Then, for me I would be wiring the PID Power Relay to the location where the power cord comes in at the circuit board on the bottom (black and white smooth). I believe my original power cord enters the smoker on the lower left rear side.  (wiring it in at that location instead of the heating element as was done in the youtube video.)  Maybe I can have my cord from the PID come in at that location and pull the wires to the bottom access panel (where your modification is) for a clean installation.

I see your pictures... I'm not really sure what I am looking at.  It looks like you have a alligator clip with a wire on it clipped to the rack.  Is your temp probe wrapped in aluminum foil and you are just using the clip to hold it secure?
Thank you!


----------



## chopsaw

The limit switch is normally closed . You're just looking for continuity .


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> So I was thinking about this today at work.  I need to do your modification to retain the safety rollout limit switch..., and make the small cutout panel in the back for access.  While I'm in there is there a test for that switch?  Am I looking for a resistance value or a closed circuit?
> Then, for me I would be wiring the PID Power Relay to the location where the power cord comes in at the circuit board on the bottom (black and white smooth). I believe my original power cord enters the smoker on the lower left rear side.  (wiring it in at that location instead of the heating element as was done in the youtube video.)  Maybe I can have my cord from the PID come in at that location and pull the wires to the bottom access panel (where your modification is) for a clean installation.
> 
> I see your pictures... I'm not really sure what I am looking at.  It looks like you have a alligator clip with a wire on it clipped to the rack.  Is your temp probe wrapped in aluminum foil and you are just using the clip to hold it secure?
> Thank you!



For the switch it's just like 

 chopsaw
 said, the switch is closed so it would be a continuity check on both sides of the switch to see if it is broken or not.  If you get a beep on the multimeter then u have continuity.

As for your cord and wiring and all.  The rewire in this post has it so your MES plug will feed power to the heating element while keeping the safety switch in the circuit.
The idea is that with an PID built like the following image you can plug the MES into the PID and the PID into the wall.  The PID then feeds power on/off to the MES plug to hit and hold the set temp you entered on the PID. (left "Input" outlet is the plug that goes to the wall to get power, right "Output" outlet is where the MES would plug into the PID to receive power)





Now when you are creating your PID controller I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you don't use project box outlet/sockets that look like the one in the picture and instead just cannibalize a 16AWG extension cord for your input and output outlets and use cable relief glands to secure it to the box, plus drilling holes for using glands and cords is easier than cutting squares for the the crappy plastic outlets the burn up fast anyhow. Something like this (bought the extension cord below and just cut in half for male and female plugs:






If you design your PID controller (box and all) like the images above you could always remove it if needed and easily replace parts without it being directly wired to the MES itself.  Life is less complicated this way :)



For my temp probe I have something likes this type of probe with a short blunt sensor at the end.  The alligator clip literally slides onto the probe since the clips have a tubular input slot where you pinch to open the clip teeth.







I bought a pack of alligator clips like this that slide over the probe and I gently crimped/clamped it on the probe with some needle nose pliers so it holds onto the probe securely:

Once I clip the probe in place on the rack I just cover with a little bit of foil since it isn't water roof and I don't grease or drippings getting into it.

I threw a lot at you here. Let me know what does/doesn't make sense and we'll get ya squared away for sure.  No question is a silly one :)


----------



## dr k

Skyhawk said:


> OK, so this is my first post on this forum.  Looks like there is a lot of good information here.
> So I got a used 30" Masterbuilt smoker from a brother-in-law about a year ago.  It was only used a few times to roast a couple turkeys.  For whatever reason, he no longer wanted it.
> I bought it from him and cleaned it up a bit and tried cooking a small 4 lb. pork butt in it.  I put it in at 0900, and cooked it slow at 205 degrees all day long with smoke.  When I pulled it out at 7:00 at night it was still for the most part raw.  So into the slow cooker it went for several more hours to finish cooking.  The controller on the smoker is so far off it is unusable.  I checked into ordering parts and the price was almost 200.00 for parts.  Absolutely ridiculous.  Further, everyone seems to have the same problem with these smokers.
> I searched the web and found a video on smoker repair.  They wire in a PID Temp controller that comes in a kit with probe and solid-state relay with heat sink.  I'm still waiting for it to arrive in the mail, but in the meantime have continued on with the modification.  My controller will be mounted in a nice aluminum electrical panel, and I am attaching it a few inches below the rear handle so that I can still cover the smoker with its cover.  I also ordered a nice meat thermometer with probes and a wireless unit for monitoring.  My smoker is like the one in this video, but in much better shape.  I will let you know how this all works out for me!  I currently have the aluminum box mounted with rivets on the smoker, waiting for the electronics to arrive.  I am also adding a lighted red LED push button switch for on/off power control, and wiring in a 25' orange extension cord for the power cord (cutting off the female receptacle and hard wiring to the controller).
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsO83_x_7U
> 
> www.amazon.com/Twidec-MV100-B10-Temperature-Controllers-Thermostat/dp/B07LCYWCB1?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1
> 
> www.amazon.com/Eightwood-Extruded-Aluminum-Electronic-Enclosure/dp/B0107WTZHE/ref=sr_1_16?crid=4EMPOYIKOVIP&keywords=Silver+Aluminum+Project+Box+Enclosure+Case+8"+x+5.7"+x+2.7"+203x144x68mm&qid=1642449916&s=industrial&sprefix=silver+aluminum+project+box+enclosure+case+8+x+5.7+x+2.7+203x144x68mm%2Cindustrial%2C31&sr=1-16
> 
> www.amazon.com/Wireless-Thermometer-Grilling-Accurate-Digital/dp/B08M6CB1KD/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2L3R36XO590KS&keywords=luyata+meat+thermometer&qid=1642449192&sprefix=luyata+meat+%2Caps%2C39&sr=8-2


I like the no back removal using the original power cord but having a power cord with lugs to direct wire to the element and ground to an access screw to the element to ground the chassis is nice to have to use a PID on my other small Mes 30 if that stock controller fails. I do not like the roll out limit switch that can fail at anytime opening way early and cooling the smoker creating a food safety senario so most all 3rd party therms have a high limit alarm for meat and a range for pit probes that are all customizable. Accessing both limit switches on my Mes' and bypassing with a wire nut eliminates that $1 part from having you jumping through hoops to continue cooking in your kitchen oven. My Mes smokers never run unless the pit probe is set to a range like 145-290. I want an alert if pit is too cool and food is safe from an overnight power outage or elec problem or if it's on fire and over 290. A limit switch opens the circuit so you walk out to a cold smoker with a food safety senario to back track you to last temp inside the meat and out or you walk out to a flaming smoker or already burned down. I'll take a notification on the calibrated 3rd party digital therm. A lot of us went to the plug and play Auber bc in a few seconds it unplugs from the receptacle, from the PID sensor and the smoker and is compact to store in the ac since no conformal coating on pcb components and traces that will short from water, condensing humidity to water and dust when left outside even in an unheated detached garage. The PID containment needs to be airtigjt left outside or condensing humidity could be the only issue. A lot of Auber owners don't know the operating temps and humidity limit of their PIDs and at least with a plug and play you can set a timer for 15 min and plug the smoker directly into the receptacle to preheat in cold weather below 32 to heat the top of the smoker a little before bringing out the controller for a warmer environment between 32F and 122F with a max RH of 85%. If you have a plug and play Auber get it inside the ac on those super humid days with cool nights that the dew in the grass soaks you shoes in a few steps in the morning or keep your smoker running and warm through the morning so the controller is warm on top of the smoker above dew points above 70F.


----------



## chopsaw

tallbm said:


> The idea is that with an PID built like the following image you can plug the MES into the PID and the PID into the wall.


Like this .


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

Looks like its my turn!


----------



## tallbm

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> Looks like its my turn!


Hahaha well, enjoy your journey to becoming a PID user :D

I'd highly recommend you buy an Auber PID since it is very much less expensive then getting all the parts, tools, and materials to build one on your own AND saves a ton of time having to learn it all.
BUT if you are hellbent on building one, it is a fun and initially challenging project.

Let us know which way you plan to go and ask any questions you have.  We'll get you into the world of the PID and relaxing in no time :D


----------



## Winterrider

Glad to have ya join the club 

 BrianGSDTexoma


----------



## Skyhawk

Dr K, that is great info about the rollout limit switch.  I think I will eliminate mine!  Thank you!  :D

All of the items that I listed in my post have been ordered, some already received, and a few things I still need to get.
I am pretty good with wiring so wiring up the PID kit won't take me long.  The kit comes with the controller, solid state relay, heat sink, and the temp probe for inside the smoker.  I like the temp probe Tallbm is using with the alligator clip, I will have to look for one with metal shielding that will work with a clip, and is compatible with my PID.  The product description says it will support all kinds of thermocouples, but comes with a small K-type threaded unit.  The PID I believe has high and low alarm temps, I will post more info as I find out!  Here is the kit wiring info, looks very easy!


----------



## Skyhawk




----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> Dr K, that is great info about the rollout limit switch.  I think I will eliminate mine!  Thank you!  :D
> 
> All of the items that I listed in my post have been ordered, some already received, and a few things I still need to get.
> I am pretty good with wiring so wiring up the PID kit won't take me long.  The kit comes with the controller, solid state relay, heat sink, and the temp probe for inside the smoker.  I like the temp probe Tallbm is using with the alligator clip, I will have to look for one with metal shielding that will work with a clip, and is compatible with my PID.  The product description says it will support all kinds of thermocouples, but comes with a small K-type threaded unit.  The PID I believe has high and low alarm temps, I will post more info as I find out!  Here is the kit wiring info, looks very easy!
> View attachment 522809



Well you are getting closer my friend!  I believe my safety switch is also bypassed at the moment as my last one melted down during a smoke and I never go around to replacing it haha.

Honestly the most difficult part is prepping the project box/enclosure and getting everything in it so that it all fits nice and neatly with the cuts made.

Thanks for posting the diagram.  It appears it is a partial representation of what you are planning with no on/off switch in the mix etc. and looks like you are well on your way.
It's not my place to tell you how to wire it all up, but I see you may be able to simplify it a little bit if your SSR only deals with the Neutral wire coming and going out. This would allow the SSR to break the circuit on the Neutral thereby cutting power on/off when signaled to do so

I see in your diagram you have the SSR completing the circuit with Neutral into the SSR and the out wire connecting to Live wire.
With the live wire hooked to the MES and the Neutral hooked to the MES then the SSR could break the circuit along the Neutral wire only.
Tracing the neutral into the SSR to then hop over to the Live wire its a little more involved than tracing a single wire that has the circuit broken on/off by the SSR.

This is your project and you are good with wiring so feel free to disregard this input.  I respectfully raise the point as a simplification that makes things easier to trace, which can also lead to increased safety and easier troubleshooting.

This is getting exciting and I can't wait to see what you turn out! :D


----------



## Skyhawk

Pins 4 and 5 are the pulling voltage for the relay.  I see what you are saying about the neutral wire.  Just wiring into the neutral will simplify things a bit.
I do have a lighted LED push button switch for this, not sure if I will use it.  The heating element will draw 6.6 amps (800 watt), the switch is rated 120v/10a.   Wish I could find a lighted one with a little higher amperage, but this one should work.  What do you think?  Too close?


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> Pins 4 and 5 are the pulling voltage for the relay.  I see what you are saying about the neutral wire.  Just wiring into the neutral will simplify things a bit.
> I do have a lighted LED push button switch for this, not sure if I will use it.  The heating element will draw 6.6 amps (800 watt), the switch is rated 120v/10a.   Wish I could find a lighted one with a little higher amperage, but this one should work.  What do you think?  Too close?


I was using 20A rated lighted rocker switches from China and they all melted down on me.  I was so tired of them failing and so pissed off I bought a 100A Marine breaker switch (for boats) and used it and no melt downs hahaha.

I would suggest any switch you use be real metal and more of an automotive or boat type switch that is well above 20Amp or of high trusted quality.  Just makes sure the voltage is supported for 20A+ on the switch you buy lol

Last switch I bought to build my brother a PID was this for $15, its 40amp rated and heavy duty:

A little big in size and more costly but won't melt down.


----------



## Skyhawk

OK, I have been working on this slowly as time and weather permits building the control panel.  It was a slow process making the cutout for the controller.  Still waiting for the On/Off switch circuit breaker (in shipping).  I will probably make up the relay wires tonight...

The other 1/2 of the aluminum enclosure is already riveted to the smoker.  I can build and assemble this part, and then attach it to the other 1/2.   Progess pictures...


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> OK, I have been working on this slowly as time and weather permits building the control panel.  It was a slow process making the cutout for the controller.  Still waiting for the On/Off switch circuit breaker (in shipping).  I will probably make up the relay wires tonight...
> 
> The other 1/2 of the aluminum enclosure is already riveted to the smoker.  I can build and assemble this part, and then attach it to the other 1/2.   Progess pictures...


Looks like you are well on  your way!
It's exciting to nerds like me to see this stuff going on even though I'm not the one building it.  Also it's exciting because I know what a fantastic machine you will be getting in the end and just knowing you will discover this soon is very cool to me hahahaha :)

Keep us posted :)


----------



## Skyhawk

Thank you and to everyone else out there and their contributions to this thread.  Your input is helping me with this project!  I just keep at it as time permits.  I did get my relay control wires built, crimped, and soldered.   Waiting on the circuit breaker!  Thanks again!


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> Thank you and to everyone else out there and their contributions to this thread.  Your input is helping me with this project!  I just keep at it as time permits.  I did get my relay control wires built, crimped, and soldered.   Waiting on the circuit breaker!  Thanks again!


Man u are almost there!!! :D


----------



## Skyhawk

Does anyone know the operating voltage of the LED light that is mounted on the upper door of the MasterBuilt Smokers?  Is that a 110v AC LED bulb?  Just wondering if I can add switch provisions for this light assembly on my electrical panel for the PID Controller.....


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

I still need to get this done.  Keep trying to talk myself into the Wifi model.  Need to just pull the trigger and go on.


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> Does anyone know the operating voltage of the LED light that is mounted on the upper door of the MasterBuilt Smokers?  Is that a 110v AC LED bulb?  Just wondering if I can add switch provisions for this light assembly on my electrical panel for the PID Controller.....


I feel like it is but if you pull the bulb out it should tell you.
You could simply wire that into your setup with a switch for sure. There is one guy who just drilled into the side of the MES and put a new wire there so this is what I'm going off of.

I didn't bother with it because I don't clean my MES40 window, it gets so crudded up it made the light pointless since I got tired of cleaning it and just leave it covered black lol. Plus once full of smoke the light is useless as well.  I just opted to leave it dead :)


----------



## tallbm

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> I still need to get this done.  Keep trying to talk myself into the Wifi model.  Need to just pull the trigger and go on.



All up to you my friend.  The HeaterMeter PID I built had the wifi part wear out so I roll without it.  It was nice for recording the info and monitoring from my phone with the app BUT I use remote thermometers that I had to monitor as well so it was a moot point to lose the wifi capability.

Just providing that info in case it helps you make a decision one way or the other. In any case the PID behavior will be a whole new and whole better world for ya :D

BTW, Select briskets $1.97/lb limit 2 with digital app coupon/rewards at Market Street starting tomorrow.  I've picked some that were easily choice grade in the past.  Also they make great grind if you need any :)


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

tallbm said:


> BTW, Select briskets $1.97/lb limit 2 with digital app coupon/rewards at Market Street starting tomorrow. I've picked some that were easily choice grade in the past. Also they make great grind if you need any :)


I still have one last brisket that been in the freezer a while now but thanks for the head up.  I am starting to learn that there is another sale just down the road.


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

tallbm said:


> All up to you my friend.  The HeaterMeter PID I built had the wifi part wear out so I roll without it.  It was nice for recording the info and monitoring from my phone with the app BUT I use remote thermometers that I had to monitor as well so it was a moot point to lose the wifi capability.
> 
> Just providing that info in case it helps you make a decision one way or the other. In any case the PID behavior will be a whole new and whole better world for ya :D
> 
> BTW, Select briskets $1.97/lb limit 2 with digital app coupon/rewards at Market Street starting tomorrow.  I've picked some that were easily choice grade in the past.  Also they make great grind if you need any :)


I just ordered the multipurpose one.  Thanks for the push.  I seen the wiring part but where do you run the probe?


----------



## tallbm

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> I just ordered the multipurpose one.  Thanks for the push.  I seen the wiring part but where do you run the probe?


Congrats!!!

I drop my probe down the vent.  My probe has a probe aligator clip on the end so I can easily clip it to the underside of the rack and move it around.
Something like these, I just open the round part and then squeeze it on to my probe using needle nose plyers without damaging anything:

These clips will work too:


----------



## Skyhawk

Since I am going to disable the safety limit rollout switch...  that just might be my point of entry for the temperature probe....


----------



## Skyhawk

Some progress tonight while watching the Olympics!


----------



## tallbm

Skyhawk said:


> Some progress tonight while watching the Olympics!


Gettin closer man! :D

Also, I'm so glad you bought a real switch and not one of those cheap plastic ones from China where they sell you 5-10 in a pack because they all melt down hahaha.


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

The Black wire is #1 and the White wire is #2.  Not sure about 3 & 4.  Instead of cutting the wires would to find some kind of union to just plug them into.  Could make some jumpers with male ends?


----------



## DougE

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> Instead of cutting the wires would to find some kind of union to just plug them into


Something like this, maybe?









						.250 Tab Doubel Male Nylon Connector - WiringProducts, Ltd.
					

.250 Tab Double Male Nylon Connector



					wiringproducts.com


----------



## tallbm

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> The Black wire is #1 and the White wire is #2.  Not sure about 3 & 4.  Instead of cutting the wires would to find some kind of union to just plug them into.  Could make some jumpers with male ends?
> 
> View attachment 525781



Thanks for the picture! Your #3, and #4 are the braided Red and braided Blue.
It won't matter which you connect AS LONG AS it is #1 to a braided, and #2 to the other braided. So the rule = Smooth wire to a braided wire.

Yeah you can use some kind of double mail connector like 

 DougE
 posted and just electrical tape it good so no metal is exposed and it doesn't somehow pull lose.

You are almost there man! :D


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

tallbm said:


> Thanks for the picture! Your #3, and #4 are the braided Red and braided Blue.
> It won't matter which you connect AS LONG AS it is #1 to a braided, and #2 to the other braided. So the rule = Smooth wire to a braided wire.
> 
> Yeah you can use some kind of double mail connector like
> 
> DougE
> posted and just electrical tape it good so no metal is exposed and it doesn't somehow pull lose.
> 
> You are almost there man! :D


That's about what I figured but needed to make sure.  Thanks for the reply.


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

Up and running.  The smoker always held temp good with nothing in it.  Soon as added anything would see big difference from top to bottom.  Will see how this does.  At least can put the probe where I want it now.  Could of used a longer cord.  That thing pretty short.  Will order a short 16 gauge.  Used this connector and cut the female off.


----------



## tallbm

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> Up and running.  The smoker always held temp good with nothing in it.  Soon as added anything would see big difference from top to bottom.  Will see how this does.  At least can put the probe where I want it now.  Could of used a longer cord.  That thing pretty short.  Will order a short 16 gauge.  Used this connector and cut the female off.
> 
> View attachment 525976
> 
> 
> View attachment 525975


What a thing of beauty!!!  Inkbird reading 250 and 247 and Auber is right there at 248 inbetween haha.  Yeah being able to move your temp probe will make a difference in getting temps nailed.  Can't argue with a probe reading at rack level.

How much cord do you need?  I ask because if you get 12guage or 14 guage you can ensure that you get full power pull across the length of the cord as long as you are 25ft or under in length.

Also if you need to tweak settings or anything on the Auber be sure to reach out.  The instructions are a little hard to read but the actual steps aren't hard to perform.  It's just hard to understand what the instructions are trying to say hahaha.


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

tallbm said:


> How much cord do you need? I ask because if you get 12guage or 14 guage you can ensure that you get full power pull across the length of the cord as long as you are 25ft or under in length.


I meant 14 gauge.  Just need couple feet.


----------



## KJNDIVER

Ok, its my turn.  I read thru this whole thread.  I had read about these controllers before but wasnt proactive. My last few smokes had horrible temp controls. Over shoot temps, undershoot temps, just temps all over the map and takes long time to correct. I was having temps swings of 30 degrees, at least according to the readout, who knows how accurate that is, but still all over the place.  I bit the bullet and ordered an  Auber Dual-Probe PID Controller for Bradley Smoker WSD 1220GPH. To be honest, I was just cruising the Auber site, saw this dual probe unit, saw that it was "preprogrammed" for a Bradley Smoker (how different can it be from a MES30). The two smokers appear to be equal in size so I figured why not. Did not now at the time that the Bradley has a smoke generator and this unit will control that as well. Anyway, the Auber arrived this week, I read thru the manual and ohhh boy does this take some head scratching.  haha.  Anyway, yesterday I tackled the rewiring and today Im smoking some venison roasts that have been brining for some pastrami.

My smoker was slightly different than the original poster in that my power wires from plug wired exactly opposite and my braided wires were different colors. But I used the same philosophy as the original poster.  Meaning that his #1 smooth black wire was the "inlet power" to the circuit board. Whereas my inlet power to circuit board was smooth white wire. Original pic #2 smooth white wire was the "inlet power to relay". Mine inlet relay power was smooth black wire. The #3 "outlet power" from relay and #4 "outlet power from circuit board " are braided wires but different colors.  Although my colors dont match the original pic, my "ins" and "outs" match up the same.  Connected 1 to 3 and 2 to 4.  But as mentioned in the thread already at this point it is a "dumb circuit" and shouldnt matter , just smooth wire to braided wire and you will be fine. Example....It was mentioned somewhere in the middle of this thread around page 6 or 7 that someone had a identical setup to mine. That user matched colors even though it was opposite the ins and outs...yet we were both successful in performing the rewire.

As luck would have it I did not have any wire nuts on hand but did have some spade connectors. I did not cut any wires, instead use a jumper wire with 2 males spade connections. Put some heat shrink on the connections I made. Then took some needle nose pliers and crimped the female connections a bit to give a tighter fit. These were actually kind of loose as it was and I was surprised it hadnt failed yet. Made the connections, wrapped with electrical tape, and tucked everything back in the box and replaced cover.  Back in business.  Smoking some deer roasts for pastrami as I type this and the temps are holding rock steady with little to no temp swings. The pic below is in "warmup phase" and held at 125 for an hour in order to get some "cold/warm" smoke before raising temps. I may go back and try to tune it better to this unit versus the Bradley as I think it starts "throttling" the output too far away from set temp (too soon) and then creeps up to the set point. I think it can be better, will adjust the P value to something that works better for me.  Maybe even do the autotune feature.  I also read and reread and watched some videos on the unit to make sense of the technical speak in the manual, and then I created myself a "cheat sheet" in laymans terms that I will print out to have on hand for when i want to make changes and program the unit.  Currently just using it without the programming. Just one temp mode. And so far I am pleased with it.  Well worth the money and effort to have better control of the smoker compared to the OEM controller.  Dont wait, just do it. You wont regret it.


----------



## tallbm

KJNDIVER said:


> Ok, its my turn.  I read thru this whole thread.  I had read about these controllers before but was proactive. My last few smokes had horrible temp controls. Over shoot temps, undershoot temps, just temps all over the map and takes long time to correct. I was having temps swings of 30 degrees, at least according to the readout, who knows how accurate that is, but still all over the place.  I bit the bullet and ordered an  Auber Dual-Probe PID Controller for Bradley Smoker WSD 1220GPH. To be honest, I was just cruising the Auber site, saw this dual probe unit, saw that it was "preprogrammed" for a Bradley Smoker (how different can it be from a MES30). The two smokers appear to be equal in size so I figured why not. Did not now at the time that the Bradley has a smoke generator and this unit will control that as well. Anyway, the Auber arrived this week, I read thru the manual and ohhh boy does this take some head scratching.  haha.  Anyway, yesterday I tackled the rewiring and today Im smoking some venison roasts that have been brining for some pastrami.
> 
> My smoker was slightly different than the original poster in that my power wires from plug wired exactly opposite and my braided wires were different colors. But I used the same philosophy as the original poster.  Meaning that his #1 smooth black wire was the "inlet power" to the circuit board. Whereas my inlet power to circuit board was smooth white wire. Original pic #2 smooth white wire was the "inlet power to relay". Mine inlet relay power was smooth black wire. The #3 "outlet power" from relay and #4 "outlet power from circuit board " are braided wires but different colors.  Although my colors dont match the original pic, my "ins" and "outs" match up the same.  Connected 1 to 3 and 2 to 4.  But as mentioned in the thread already at this point it is a "dumb circuit" and shouldnt matter , just smooth wire to braided wire and you will be fine. Example....It was mentioned somewhere in the middle of this thread around page 6 or 7 that someone had a identical setup to mine. That user matched colors even though it was opposite the ins and outs...yet we were both successful in performing the rewire.
> 
> As luck would have it I did not have any wire nuts on hand but did have some spade connectors. I did not cut any wires, instead use a jumper wire with 2 males spade connections. Put some heat shrink on the connections I made. Then took some needle nose pliers and crimped the female connections a bit to give a tighter fit. These were actually kind of loose as it was and I was surprised it hadnt failed yet. Made the connections, wrapped with electrical tape, and tucked everything back in the box and replaced cover.  Back in business.  Smoking some deer roasts for pastrami as I type this and the temps are holding rock steady with little to no temp swings. The pic below is in "warmup phase" and held at 125 for an hour in order to get some "cold/warm" smoke before raising temps. I may go back and try to tune it better to this unit versus the Bradley as I think it starts "throttling" the output too far away from set temp (too soon) and then creeps up to the set point. I think it can be better, will adjust the P value to something that works better for me.  Maybe even do the autotune feature.  I also read and reread and watched some videos on the unit to make sense of the technical speak in the manual, and then I created myself a "cheat sheet" in laymans terms that I will print out to have on hand for when i want to make changes and program the unit.  Currently just using it without the programming. Just one temp mode. And so far I am pleased with it.  Well worth the money and effort to have better control of the smoker compared to the OEM controller.  Dont wait, just do it. You wont regret it.


Hi there and welcome!

Congrats on coming over to the PID side of things! :D

I just got back from my hunting trip and bagged 3 meat deer (2 does, 1 runt of a male that didnt even have knobs or bumps much less horns of any kind)  and 1 feral hog.  
My brother brought back 2 giant feral hogs and 1 doe.

I think you are going to be more and more impressed with your PID setup and we can help you tinker with a lower P value to help heat up faster if needed.
I look forward to seeing how the venison pastrami comes out. Congrats! :)


----------



## dogwalker

I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I'm really ignorant on electronics (I'm a software engineer and programmer, if that helps, LOL!).  I've had my 20070311 for several years, and I've tried repeatedly to fix the two wires that connect to the heating element.  Each "fix" would last several months, but then burn up again (I'm attaching some photos).  Last year, I bought the MB20071619 when it was on sale, but it's not as nice a model and doesn't seem as insulated - but it works.
So ... if you were in my boat, would you try to remove the panel on the 20070311 and replace the wires, or just chunk it?  and what do you think about the 20071619?  Would it be worthwhile doing this PID fix on that smoker?
I loved a lot about my 20070311, and I honestly don't know what I'd replace it with - a pellet grill (but they have their own temperature issues, from what I've read), or use my Weber grill and Slow & Sear for smoking (I've done that, it's not bad, but not as nice as the MES), or some other route.  Maybe the 20071619 will be good enough?
I don't know if these photos help at all, it was hard to get good pics.  Basically, both wires and tabs have corroded or burned through multiple times, and I've actually spliced them.
I have a friend who says he knows electronics pretty well, but he hasn't seen these photos yet.  :-)

Thanks!


----------



## tallbm

dogwalker said:


> I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I'm really ignorant on electronics (I'm a software engineer and programmer, if that helps, LOL!).  I've had my 20070311 for several years, and I've tried repeatedly to fix the two wires that connect to the heating element.  Each "fix" would last several months, but then burn up again (I'm attaching some photos).  Last year, I bought the MB20071619 when it was on sale, but it's not as nice a model and doesn't seem as insulated - but it works.
> So ... if you were in my boat, would you try to remove the panel on the 20070311 and replace the wires, or just chunk it?  and what do you think about the 20071619?  Would it be worthwhile doing this PID fix on that smoker?
> I loved a lot about my 20070311, and I honestly don't know what I'd replace it with - a pellet grill (but they have their own temperature issues, from what I've read), or use my Weber grill and Slow & Sear for smoking (I've done that, it's not bad, but not as nice as the MES), or some other route.  Maybe the 20071619 will be good enough?
> I don't know if these photos help at all, it was hard to get good pics.  Basically, both wires and tabs have corroded or burned through multiple times, and I've actually spliced them.
> I have a friend who says he knows electronics pretty well, but he hasn't seen these photos yet.  :-)
> 
> Thanks!



Well If i were in your boat I would likely get a PID controller and use the 20070311 to experiment on.
I'd pull the back off and run new wires from the heating element for the rewire.  Those old wires look like toast.  
I noticed that the connectors seemed to be holding up but the wires were not.  With the connectors I would also make sure I had them covered with some heat shrink insulation wrap or some good high temp electrical tape at the least.  I would ensure the crimps are all good and tight too.  Anything lose = resistance which = heating and burning up.  You have lots of burning up in there.
I'd get all three wires run and fastened well and connectors insulatied (neutral, hot, and ground wires).

This would get the old smoker running and working with a PID and get you some practice and familiarity with it so you can decide if you want to do the same with your newer model.

At that point you have two functioning smokers and could gift one or keep one for backup.  You would also be armed with all the knowledge to work these things and keep them going unless they get hit by a tornado haha :D

That's just me :)


----------



## dr k

dogwalker said:


> I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I'm really ignorant on electronics (I'm a software engineer and programmer, if that helps, LOL!).  I've had my 20070311 for several years, and I've tried repeatedly to fix the two wires that connect to the heating element.  Each "fix" would last several months, but then burn up again (I'm attaching some photos).  Last year, I bought the MB20071619 when it was on sale, but it's not as nice a model and doesn't seem as insulated - but it works.
> So ... if you were in my boat, would you try to remove the panel on the 20070311 and replace the wires, or just chunk it?  and what do you think about the 20071619?  Would it be worthwhile doing this PID fix on that smoker?
> I loved a lot about my 20070311, and I honestly don't know what I'd replace it with - a pellet grill (but they have their own temperature issues, from what I've read), or use my Weber grill and Slow & Sear for smoking (I've done that, it's not bad, but not as nice as the MES), or some other route.  Maybe the 20071619 will be good enough?
> I don't know if these photos help at all, it was hard to get good pics.  Basically, both wires and tabs have corroded or burned through multiple times, and I've actually spliced them.
> I have a friend who says he knows electronics pretty well, but he hasn't seen these photos yet.  :-)
> 
> Thanks!



I have two Gen 1 Mes 40 20070311 from 2015 or earlier and Stainless steel inside and out with the window.  I would keep that if it's all SS.  MB may have kept the part number during all their changes the last five+ years and may be using black paint on the outside cabinet on one's marked as 20070311.  I don't like paint.  If you're using OEM light aluminum female disconnects vs nickle plated steel then the Aluminum and steel and copper wire metals will create aluminum oxide that's corrosive so the lugs get loose, then hot from higher resistance, then burn up.  I use supco T1113 high heat steel appliance lugs on amazon and they aren't crimp-able. I solder them to keep air out of the joint.  Strip 14 gauge AWG wire one inch and heat with a torch or pencil torch and tin the wire in a couple seconds and let cool.  Slide tinned wire through the barrel of the steel lug with helping hands and hold lug above the tinned wire as you reheat the wire sticking out the other end and add more solder to fill the joint and hold lug above the wire till the solder solidifies and cut off excess tinned wire. No shrink wrap on lugs and inspect them every six months.  The junction box is lined with rubber and I peeled the rubber off the access plate so that is my cover over the six rubber holes.  I peel off over the screw heads and inspect with plywood as my cover leaned against the smoker.  I made and gave away these high heat lugs with a 3" lead of wire stripped (Pigtails) so folks could just wire nut these on to not waste the the wire in the smoker like the MB fix.  I have the original power cord from another MB smoker with soldered on lugs on the white and black and the green ground wraps around one of the six access screws to test/isolate elements and a back up power cord to the PID or as a main cord to the element.  With PID up grade I have a back up power cord and an element. I use aluminum Jacketing tape after I made an access to the safety limit switch in the back with a dremel cut of wheel that fails a lot.  I bypass my smokers with a wire nut to that POS switch since I always use a pit therm set to a range of 145-290.  My lugs to my element failed after 11 months in 2016.  No issues since.  Don't throw away the smokers just get elements and a PID controller.


----------



## dogwalker

Thanks, guys!  I'll try it!


----------



## BilboBaggins

Howdy Smoking Mod experts! I have and MES 30 (MB26071317) that I'd like to rewire for a PID controller. My smoker only has two removeable panels

This one on the back for the heating element wires:






And, this one underneath for the circuit board:






I'm assuming that all I have to do is combine the red and black wire going to the relay on the bottom panel that I have circled? Then, I can plug the smoker into the temp controller?

Thanks for the help.


----------



## dr k

BilboBaggins said:


> Howdy Smoking Mod experts! I have and MES 30 (MB26071317) that I'd like to rewire for a PID controller. My smoker only has two removeable panels
> 
> This one on the back for the heating element wires:
> View attachment 649839
> 
> 
> And, this one underneath for the circuit board:
> View attachment 649840
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that all I have to do is combine the red and black wire going to the relay on the bottom panel that I have circled? Then, I can plug the smoker into the temp controller?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Yes. The white power cord neutral and blue braided are terminated together on the PC board but I don't like the light weight aluminum lugs so I cut stripped the four wires and wire nutted the black to red and blue to white. Mine maybe  backwards black to blue and red to white. As long as a smooth power cord wire is terminated to a braided wire.


----------



## tallbm

BilboBaggins said:


> Howdy Smoking Mod experts! I have and MES 30 (MB26071317) that I'd like to rewire for a PID controller. My smoker only has two removeable panels
> 
> This one on the back for the heating element wires:
> View attachment 649839
> 
> 
> And, this one underneath for the circuit board:
> View attachment 649840
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that all I have to do is combine the red and black wire going to the relay on the bottom panel that I have circled? Then, I can plug the smoker into the temp controller?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Yeah 

 dr k
 has you covered.  You have the colored wires which helps identify things much more easily.

Let us know how it all turns out and if you have any issues :)


----------



## DinkyDoodleDoo

I recently purchased an Auber AW-1520H because I'm tired of the wild temperature swings in my MES MB20073519. I unscrewed the bottom plate, and the wiring doesn't match Auber's rewiring instructions or any of the posts I've seen here. It looks like there are two relays? I assume that it's because the smoker has a broiler that I never use. I've numbered the wires and was hoping that someone could tell me which wires to splice in order to safely use my new PID controller.

Thanks!


----------



## Winterrider

Hang tight, 

 tallbm
 or 

 dr k
 will be with you shortly.


----------



## tallbm

DinkyDoodleDoo said:


> I recently purchased an Auber AW-1520H because I'm tired of the wild temperature swings in my MES MB20073519. I unscrewed the bottom plate, and the wiring doesn't match Auber's rewiring instructions or any of the posts I've seen here. It looks like there are two relays? I assume that it's because the smoker has a broiler that I never use. I've numbered the wires and was hoping that someone could tell me which wires to splice in order to safely use my new PID controller.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 651668


Hi there and welcome!

First time I'm seeing a post about a unit with the broiler, so this is exciting :D

A little investigation will need to be done.  Do you have an access panel to the broiler element?
Also having a Multimeter with a continuity function (most have it) will help.

I have a strong strong suspicion as to what your wiring is but with wiring and electricity it is best to be correct and to not speculate :)

Please send some pics of the wiring at both your main heating element AND your broiler heating element.

[struck out that statement because that wont work, you will pull too many Amps with both burners running]
I'm thinking we can easily wire this so both elements run at the same time giving u both top and bottom heat... but 
We can get you rewired for sure with just using the bottom element, you will lose your broil function and top element though.  Good thing you never use it.  I think it's a gimmic anyways since the insulation in these units isn't made to handle temps above 325F for a long period of time so I question being able to broil at needed temps that are like 500F+ :D

If you can get back with those pics we'll get you sorted out with running the bottom element only :)


----------



## DinkyDoodleDoo

Here's the broiler:






And here's the main element:






I have no intention of ever using the broiler. I guess having heat from the top would be ok, as long as it doesn't cause problems with meat at the top of the smoker. I mostly smoke sausage and bacon on the upper racks.


----------



## tallbm

DinkyDoodleDoo said:


> Here's the broiler:
> View attachment 651708
> 
> 
> And here's the main element:
> View attachment 651709
> 
> 
> I have no intention of ever using the broiler. I guess having heat from the top would be ok, as long as it doesn't cause problems with meat at the top of the smoker. I mostly smoke sausage and bacon on the upper racks.



Thanks for the pics!

I'm pretty sure that you connect:

1&6, Red braided to White smooth
3&4, Black smooth to Blue braided
When you do that and plug in your MES into the wall BUT DON'T LEAVE IT!!!! lol  The bottom element SHOULD heat and the top element will never heat.
Once you confirm this, unplug it from the wall.  After the rewire you have bypassed its internal control and will only heat until it the safety switch cuts power OR it burns down.  The Auber PID will now be the controller :)

That top element is a 1400watt element and your bottom element is a 1200watt element.  If you ran both at the same time that would be too much.

Let me know if this works for you then we can talk about possibilities with that top burner.  I'm thinking you can run a separate cord to it and and switch cords to your Auber depending on if you want to use the top broiler element or regular bottom element   :D


----------



## DinkyDoodleDoo

tallbm said:


> Thanks for the pics!
> 
> I'm pretty sure that you connect:
> 
> 1&6, Red braided to White smooth
> 3&4, Black smooth to Blue braided
> When you do that and plug in your MES into the wall BUT DON'T LEAVE IT!!!! lol  The bottom element SHOULD heat and the top element will never heat.
> Once you confirm this, unplug it from the wall.  After the rewire you have bypassed its internal control and will only heat until it the safety switch cuts power OR it burns down.  The Auber PID will now be the controller :)
> 
> That top element is a 1400watt element and your bottom element is a 1200watt element.  If you ran both at the same time that would be too much.
> 
> Let me know if this works for you then we can talk about possibilities with that top burner.  I'm thinking you can run a separate cord to it and and switch cords to your Auber depending on if you want to use the top broiler element or regular bottom element   :D


I'll try it out tomorrow. I've had too many pints of homebrew to start tinkering tonight. :)

I think I'll just pretend that the top element doesn't exist. I'd forgotten all about it until I decided to give the smoker a bit of a cleaning earlier today. I won't miss it at all.

Thanks for your help! I'll let you know how it went sometime tomorrow.

EDIT: I do have a multimeter, so if there are any continuity checks that you'd like me to do, just let me know.


----------



## DinkyDoodleDoo

As you’d predicted, 

 tallbm
, the bottom element heated, and the top one didn’t. Perfect!

Thank you very much for your help!


----------



## tallbm

DinkyDoodleDoo said:


> I'll try it out tomorrow. I've had too many pints of homebrew to start tinkering tonight. :)
> 
> I think I'll just pretend that the top element doesn't exist. I'd forgotten all about it until I decided to give the smoker a bit of a cleaning earlier today. I won't miss it at all.
> 
> Thanks for your help! I'll let you know how it went sometime tomorrow.
> 
> EDIT: I do have a multimeter, so if there are any continuity checks that you'd like me to do, just let me know.



The if you unhook the Black BRAIDED at the lower heating element AND unhook the Blue braided at the circuit board I am pretty sure a continuity check on the black braided and blue braided ends should pan out when you touch both ends.  It will show they are connected with no breaks (hence continuity).
Why do they switch colors here?
Usually the blue braided runs to the safety roll out limit switch (overheat protection switch) which is Normally Closed (NC).  Then from the other end of the switch they run a Black braided wire to the heating element.
That seems to be their method of operation when they use red and blue braided color wires.

Unhook the Red Braided end at the circuit board and the Red Braided end at the heating element and do a continuity check with both those ends and it should confirm they are 1 wire.

The connectors MUST be disconnected when you do this or you can get false positives.

This should give you 100% certainty that my wiring suggestions are good to go in the previous post :)


----------

