# What did they do back when.....



## okbow68 (Dec 29, 2017)

What did they do back when, if their dry cured meats went past the dryness level that they wanted.  I’m thinking if you leave a copa or other hanging long enough it will turn into jerky.  So what did they do? Re-hydrate in soups and stews? Use as jerky or did it not last that long? A lot of knowledge here I want to learn from.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 29, 2017)

Good question...I know Grandpa left everything in the smoke house year round but there was never any mention of quality beginning of the year vs the last piece they cut 12 months or more later...JJ


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## archeryrob (Jan 4, 2018)

I cured a bunch of goose breasts and ducks. I sliced most and vac packed it and dried some in the fridge. I can eat it dry but its hard and I tried to soak one duck breast 4 hours and was not impressed. I have to experiemnt more with soaking times and such. 

Would it keep you alive and in protein, yes. Are you going to like it a lot, not from the way I tried it. :D I'm still learning and not doing it correctly i guess.


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## daveomak (Jan 4, 2018)

I'm pretty sure recipes are available for dried foods..  Check "preppers forums" or blogs..  Dried foods are readily available everywhere... 
In the past, I believe meats was sliced "paper" thin and simmered for hours with other stuff..  flavor and protein being the main extract....


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## tallbm (Jan 4, 2018)

okbow68 said:


> What did they do back when, if their dry cured meats went past the dryness level that they wanted.  I’m thinking if you leave a copa or other hanging long enough it will turn into jerky.  So what did they do? Re-hydrate in soups and stews? Use as jerky or did it not last that long? A lot of knowledge here I want to learn from.



Hi there and welcome!

I would imagine it went into soups and stews.
I for one wouldn't hesitate to throw it in beans, peas, or stewed cabbage dishes!

It will rehydrate, maybe break up, and will give those dishes the great meat flavors :)


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## forkin pork (Jan 4, 2018)

Not much to add here, except, what did they do in the past, when they had no cure#1 or #2 ?


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 4, 2018)

daveomak said:


> I'm pretty sure recipes are available for dried foods..  Check "preppers forums" or blogs..  Dried foods are readily available everywhere...
> In the past, I believe meats was sliced "paper" thin and simmered for hours with other stuff..  flavor and protein being the main extract....



Makes sense Dave. The meat become a flavor ingredient to a stewed pot of other things...



forkin pork said:


> Not much to add here, except, what did they do in the past, when they had no cure#1 or #2 ?



Plain salt has been used thousands of years and Potassium Nitrate, Saltpeter, has been known to help preserve meat from the 1400's. First in the form of gun powder then the Nitrate itself. An entire industry grew in Europe can around "growing" saltpeter for gun powder and later preservation. It was discovered that Nitrate crystals grew on rotting vegetation and was found in especially large quantities in Latrines, out house walls, barn stalls and floors, anywhere human and animal waste was collected. Some folks had collection containers in Taverns and Hotels as Urine was a grate source....JJ


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## daveomak (Jan 4, 2018)

Holey Krapper Sherlock...   I'm glad I wasn't eating their "cured" meats back then....


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 4, 2018)

LOL! Right. I could not believe harvesting Nitrate from out houses was such a common source...JJ


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 4, 2018)

Read this...JJ

*Turning Poop into Gold*
The bubonic plague was not the only black death to descend upon Europe in the Middle Ages.  A second black death had made its insidious and ultimately more lethal way to European shores from China, and inexorably infected the minds of its alchemists, its generals and its kings. And even as the plague faded and Renaissance brought revolution to thought and ideas, the second black death grew ever more entrenched, and a simple black powder ushered in a revolution in blood and carnage.

The demand for gunpowder was insatiable. Kings, dukes, counts and petty lords loved their new bombards and arquebuses. The more gunpowder they used, the more they wanted. Gunpowder was a fortuitous mix of sulphur, charcoal and saltpeter. It was that last ingredient that was the most vital and the hardest to obtain. Saltpeter is a nitrate salt – usually calcium nitrate – and nobody knew how to make it. Except for some microscopic bacteria, which produced the nitrates as byproducts of eating. Since the bacteria would have to wait another 500 years to be discovered,  the Europeans concluded that saltpeter was spontaneously produced by what the bacteria ate – poop.

Saltpeter was the white frosting one found on poop that had been given time to settle and get comfortable. It was the white icing that grew on barnyard floors, on wet and rotting walls. It layered urinals and cesspits. It even found a home on the floors of people’s huts and manor halls, which were carpeted with reeds, rotting food, sundry varieties of cross species waste, and of course, dog feces. Saltpeter was born of a filthy womb (the medieval Europeans had a more relaxed view of cleanliness), but it was miraculous stuff. Many, if not most, were convinced that the explosive transformation saltpeter wrought on sulphur and charcoal was the work of the Devil.

Rulers needed gunpowder. Gunpowder needed saltpeter. And saltpeter needed poop. And so, the dukes declared a monopoly on their land’s waste. State employees – seasoned professionals called petermen – went from house to house, digging up barns, scraping up urine covered walls and latrines, sifting through manure and rotting vegetation – harvesting saltpeter. But there was never enough of it, and it didn’t help that the medievals did not appreciate having their floors scraped (cleaned) and their latrines violated (cleaned).

And so was born the profession of saltpeter farming. Medieval entrepreneurs found opportunity in poop. There was plenty of it and if they threw it all into a specially prepared pit and let it do its thing, in little more than a year, they could make an easy silver piece or two – even gold! It smelt bad, but it was lucrative.

Saltpeter farming launched a business boom not dissimilar to Silicon Valley in spirit. An untold number of operations were born – not in garages (they didn’t have them yet) – but in backyards. Soon, an entire process and methodology evolved, and saltpeter production became efficient – although they never really could make enough of it. The farmers learnt how to use the soluble properties of the saltpeter to purify and concentrate it. They learnt how to build pits that worked optimally.  They learnt how best to use every and anything that had a tendency to fester. They gathered and saved every piece of s*** they could find. They even figured out the sort of poop that made the best saltpeter. For the best kind of poop was actually urine, the best urine came from drunkards, and the best drunkards, or so the farmers claimed, were Catholic bishops.
https://umeshmadan.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/turning-poop-into-gold/


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## forkin pork (Jan 5, 2018)

You guys kill me. I thought for sure the "professor" would have the answer.


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## archeryrob (Jan 5, 2018)

I have researched making gun powder, another hobby, and you can get potassium nitrate from urine. My wife is just dying  impatiently for me to try this. <sarcasm>

Lots of articles out there too on how you should be peeing in your garden instead of wasting all that nitrogen. Just wave to the neighbors and they will leave you alone. ;)


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## browneyesvictim (Jan 5, 2018)

Oh... what you learn on SMF. (SMH)
Thanks for that JJ. That was a good read.


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## forkin pork (Jan 5, 2018)

Ok lets get back to basics, I'm quoting myself below, when I asked 



forkin pork said:


> Not much to add here, except, what did they do in the past, when they had no cure#1 or #2 ?


No one really seemed to have a reasonable answer, why? Because we don't know!

Now, before I got divorced, I was married to a lovely woman, her parents were off the boat Italian, hard core!
My father in-law taught me how to make vino and dried cured sausage, soppressata and cappy for 13 years.

The way he taught me.... we never/ever used cure #1 or #2 , actually he never heard of cure,  we only used 1/2 a tablespoon of salt per lb.. that's it!

I and everyone else for years always ate and enjoyed some of the best Italian sausage, soppressata, cappy and yes even prosciutto.

So, as I agree with using "cure",  why is it that they always made it without cure and no one ever got sick and I have to say, was some of the best homemade stuff I ever had.
Remember, these were folks from off the boat.

And don't say they were lucky, I think in some small way, all this cure stuff, is a little hyped up.


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## daveomak (Jan 5, 2018)

*And don't say they were lucky, I think in some small way, all this cure stuff, is a little hyped up
*
You usually only get botulism once...


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## bill ace 350 (Jan 6, 2018)

daveomak said:


> *And don't say they were lucky, I think in some small way, all this cure stuff, is a little hyped up
> *
> You usually only get botulism once...


anyone know how the Eskimos cure/preserve their meat and fish? Curious now.....


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## daveomak (Jan 6, 2018)

*anyone know how the Eskimos cure/preserve their meat and fish? Curious now*

They have the highest rate of botulism in the US...


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## chopsaw (Jan 6, 2018)

forkin pork said:


> Ok lets get back to basics, I'm quoting myself below, when I asked
> 
> 
> No one really seemed to have a reasonable answer, why? Because we don't know!
> ...



Please stop .


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## bill ace 350 (Jan 7, 2018)

daveomak said:


> *anyone know how the Eskimos cure/preserve their meat and fish? Curious now*
> 
> They have the highest rate of botulism in the US...


Wow. Sad. So what is their process? That was my question. Does anyone here have any first hand knowledge of the process they use?


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## forkin pork (Jan 7, 2018)

The only reason I raised this question in the first place, was for 13 years, I made dry aged Italian sausage with my ex-father in-law. A real off the boat Italian and a great guy.
Though all that time, we never used and/or even talked about cure #1 or #2, he taught me to use just salt.
1/2 a tablespoon per lb of pork, with other spices, and that's it.
The dried sausages tasted really great, something I have never been able to reproduce on my own, and nobody ever got sick or even ill.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 7, 2018)

forkin pork said:


> The only reason I raised this question in the first place, was for 13 years, I made dry aged Italian sausage with my ex-father in-law. A real off the boat Italian and a great guy.
> Though all that time, we never used and/or even talked about cure #1 or #2, he taught me to use just salt.
> 1/2 a tablespoon per lb of pork, with other spices, and that's it.
> The dried sausages tasted really great, something I have never been able to reproduce on my own, and nobody ever got sick or even ill.



What was the rest of the procedure? Did he make it all year? Or only during the November/December typical hog slaughtering cold weather? Lots of old world recipes using salt only, but the production followed strict procedures and time of year production. They make Prosciutto all over Italy but those made in the North use a lot less salt than that made at the tips of the boot where the weather is warm year round. There are salt only sausages made in only the hottest and sunniest parts of the world where they are assembled and laid in the sun. They are dried in hours not the days it would take in PA. It's folks that find Grandpa's salt only recipe with a list of ingredients and only the instructions " hang to dry for a month..." That end up in the hospital...JJi


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## forkin pork (Jan 7, 2018)

You are correct, yes we only did it at the end of November and just hung it in a cold but not to cold maybe 45*F room in his basement.


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 7, 2018)

forkin pork said:


> You are correct, yes we only did it at the end of November and just hung it in a cold but not to cold maybe 45*F room in his basement.



Great to hear. That makes a huge amount of difference. Plus add that many Grandpa's slaughtered their own hogs. The family would take great care to make sure the meat was not contaminated and handled properly, working clean, cold and quickly. I would likely try a Salt only recipe if I processed the hog. No way I would try it with Wally World Pork...JJ


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## bill ace 350 (Jan 7, 2018)

My first attempt at a dry sausage without cure was a success(as were attempts 2-5)!

I had purchased "The Sausage-Making Cookbook", by Jerry Predika.

In the book he explained the purpose of cure, and the recommended amounts etc.

He also stated he chose not to use it.

Not having any cure and having then recently shot a deer, I chose a recipe from his book and substituted venison for beef, stuffed in hog casings.

Hung it in a spare fridge, temp set at 48. In a few weeks, it was done, as far as I could tell. Smelled good, tasted good, and I didn't die, or the others that tried it.

Then I was introduced to making summer sausage by a friend from North Dakota. He had s recipe that used TenderQuick.

Real good stuff....

Then I PCS'd and didn't have time, space or equipment to make any.

Once I got settled to a point where I could start again, I started making stuff with TenderQuick and then Cure #1.

Absolutely possible without cure, but nowadays, I don't want to take a chance.


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## forkin pork (Jan 7, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> No way I would try it with Wally World Pork..


I agree and never really gave much thought to where the pork came from, only because, I don't know where father in-law purchased his meat, only know he purchased like 200 lbs in butts and we would grind it for a few ours (wit a hang grinder) YES!
The 200 lbs would sit on the kitchen table for hours at room temp while we finished grinding then seasoning and mixing (by hand) YES!
Then stuffing wit a an old black cast iron stuffer that only held 10 lbs (crank by hand) YES! again.
So all that sitting out at room temp, always made me nervous, but then again, the stuff came out great and nobody ever got sick.



bill ace 350 said:


> I don't want to take a chance.


Yes I do agree and I don't like taking chances, but I'm trying to find that great tasting flavor that my father in-law had.

I'm glad I'm not crazy, cuz everyone says "It can't be done"            Thank You!:p


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## mneeley490 (Jan 14, 2018)

_"I agree and never really gave much thought to where the pork came from, only because, I don't know where father in-law purchased his meat, only know he purchased like 200 lbs in butts and we would grind it for a few ours (wit a hang grinder) YES!
The 200 lbs would sit on the kitchen table for hours at room temp while we finished grinding then seasoning and mixing (by hand) YES!
Then stuffing wit a an old black cast iron stuffer that only held 10 lbs (crank by hand) YES! again.
So all that sitting out at room temp, always made me nervous, but then again, the stuff came out great and nobody ever got sick."
_
Reminds me of my grandparents having me hand crank the old ice cream maker. Not sure if it was because I was so tired, or because my arms felt like they were going to fall off, but that still seemed like the best ice cream ever.


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## jokensmoken (Jan 14, 2018)

okbow68 said:


> What did they do back when, if their dry cured meats went past the dryness level that they wanted.  I’m thinking if you leave a copa or other hanging long enough it will turn into jerky.  So what did they do? Re-hydrate in soups and stews? Use as jerky or did it not last that long? A lot of knowledge here I want to learn from.


I've over dried jerky a couple times and steam it s bit in my veggie steamer before eating.
AND as you and others eluded to...it works great in soups, stews snd bean pots.

Walt.


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## bill ace 350 (Jan 28, 2018)

forkin pork said:


> Ok lets get back to basics, I'm quoting myself below, when I asked
> 
> 
> No one really seemed to have a reasonable answer, why? Because we don't know!
> ...



I have been researching the process for dry-curing a "country ham".

The University of Kentucky has a great video of the process. THe one thing that grabbed my attention is te fact that the University method only calls for brown sugar and salt...

Anyone here have any experience making these?

I was wondering if using Morton Tenderquick/Sugar Cure would be the better route?


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## daveomak (Jan 28, 2018)

bill ace 350 said:


> I have been researching the process for dry-curing a "country ham".
> 
> The University of Kentucky has a great video of the process. THe one thing that grabbed my attention is te fact that the University method only calls for brown sugar and salt...
> 
> ...



Would be the better route that what route....


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## bill ace 350 (Jan 29, 2018)

daveomak said:


> Would be the better route that what route....
> View attachment 351937



Thanks for the picture.

Route? Pretty clear I was asking whether using Morton products would be a better choice than the ingredients indicated in the video.

Great video, in my opinion. You should check it out.


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