# Pellet grill (Traeger) = less smoke flavor?



## smokeisbest

I own an Traeger and use it a lot.  Mostly Briskets and Ribs.  I find that I never achieve (especially with ribs) the same smokey flavor as guys using wood and coals. Also, my never come out as dark as other guys (using same rubs etc). 
My thoughts are this: since meat only absorbs smoke for the first 2-3 hrs, its critical to get the most amount of smoke in that time period. I am thinking with the Traeger, (and I am assuming most other pellet grills), the way it functions limits the time period that the meat is subject to smoke.  The first phase is heat and fan, which creates the fire. I see little smoke at this point as it burning hotly and efficiently with visible flames.  Then the fan goes off, the flames die down, and the pellets are left to smolder for a period (depending on settings) which creates all that visible smoke.  Then the fan kicks back on providing more O2, the pellets ignite and burn with flame more cleanly resulting in less smoke being created. This is repeated constantly, and woudl be magnified as desired temp increases (more burning, less smoldering?) so a piece of meat in the grill for 2 hours, is not getting 2 hours of smoke.  Maybe its 50/50 but it's not 2 hrs.  By contrast, if smoke is being generated by wood pieces smoldering on coals, and the wood is being replaced as needed, the smoke is being generated the entire time, so that same piece of meat would receive 2 hours of smoke in 2 hours.  This is my hypothesis.. And maybe explains why I cannot achieve the same smokey flavor that other guys/restaurants achieve.

Thoughts from the experts?


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## kruizer

You have hit the nail on the head. My pellet smoker never imparts the level of smoke that I get with my offset or Weber. But there are times when I don't want heavy smoke and that is when i use the Camp Chef Woodwind.


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## BigW.

Try some different pellets, hickory or maybe mesquite.  Some brands are 100% flavor wood other mixed.  In general pellets grills put out less smoke flavor but you can adapt and overcome.  Lower temps produce more smoke than higher.  Try an A-MAZ-N tray or tube for extra smoke.


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## SmokinVOLfan

I'm not a pellet guy but have read a lot of complaints about the same thing. A lot of guys add in a pellet tube like the AMNTS. This gives you a consistent smoke. I run the tray in my MES40 and get 11 hours of smoke without having to touch it. I don't think you will be disappointed with the extra smoke. Im sure one of the pellet guys will be able to answer a little better. Good luck


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## bregent

smokeisbest said:


> My thoughts are this: since meat only absorbs smoke for the first 2-3 hrs



Not sure why you think that - meat will absorb smoke for as long as you have it in the smoker. Pellet grills produce less smoke flavor than other smokers for a few reasons:

1) The firepot burns very hot, much hotter than wood burns in the fire boxes of other types of smokers. At these higher temps, much of the volatile flavoring compounds are destroyed. Pellet grills that have modes that pulse the fans alleviate this somewhat.
2) The fan pushes the smoke out of the chamber quickly so it does not have much chance to settle on the meat.
3) Due to the design of many, the drip tray prevents much of the smoke from circulating around the meat.

As BigW suggests, make sure you use a pellet that provides maximum flavor, like 100% hickory.  Most of the time I prefer the smoke flavor I get from a pellet grill, but when I'm looking for heavy smoke flavor, I use my Weber.


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## smokinq13

So i have also thought about the whole crusial first couple hours to get smoke flavor absorbed into whatever you're cooking..... so why would you ever need to have a smoking tube or tray that can put out smoke 6, 8 12 + hours when you only need a couple hours for the flavor??


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## 6GRILLZNTN

I can get quite a bit of smoke from my Rec Tec, but I have to run it between 180 and 220 to do so.  Once I run the temps up, smoke production goes down pretty fast.


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## markh024

I run a pellet tube with Lumberjack in the tube and the hopper. Mainly Hickory but I switch it up here and there.  I get pretty good smoke flavor out of it.  no, it's not like getting it off a wood burner or alike but for my smoking and my needs, it's great.


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## radio

Even using a pellet tube in my GMG I have been unhappy with the amount of smokiness in the meats.  I have resorted to starting the briskets and butts in my stick burner, then after 3-4 hours moving them to the pellet pooper to finish without babysitting and feeding every 45 minutes to an hour


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## johnmeyer

smokeisbest said:


> I own an Traeger and use it a lot.  Mostly Briskets and Ribs.  I find that I never achieve (especially with ribs) the same smokey flavor as guys using wood and coals.


My one experience eating food cooked on a Traeger was when a Traeger rep set up in front of the local Ace Hardware and handed out samples of what he cooked. My memory was that not only was it almost completely devoid of much smoke flavor, but what flavor it did have was somewhat unnatural (I don't know how else to characterize it).

I was not even remotely tempted to get one.

Then, six months later someone gave me an MES 30 after I videotaped his daughter's wedding (as a gift). I had all the usual problems with it which led everyone to give me the standard advice about getting the AMNPS (and doing a mailbox mod). However, because of my negative experience with the pellet smoke taste from the Traeger, I resisted getting the AMNPS.

As months went by, the taste from the MES was so bad that I posted about selling it, but everyone advised, once again, to get the AMNPS. Since it was a gift and since I had no money in it, and since the AMNPS is a modest investment, I got it.

My experience? The flavor from Todd's pellets smouldered in the AMNPS are much better than the Traeger pellets. How much of that is the pellets and how much is due to the nature of how the Traeger burns rather than smokes the pellets (depending on the settings), I don't know.

Bottom line: I now get far better results from my MES using Todd's pellets in the AMNPS than what I experienced with that Traeger demo done by their employee.


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## Little-m

John, I recently experienced the same results as you did when I swapped out the stock controller in my Pit Boss with a PID.  Results were next to no smoke flavour at all regardless what temps I was running it at.  Was turned off so much that I swapped back the original controller - at least I get the flavouring I want while I put up with the periodic temp changes.

To me, if you need to augment your smoker with a device like an AMNPS, then there is little point in having the smoker.  You might as well just use a propane BBQ with the AMNPS - at least you would save money.


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## SlowmotionQue

How do burning pellets know whether or not they’re being burned in a PID controlled grill or a non PID controlled grill?

Smoke coming from off of burning pellets,..... is smoke coming from off of burning pellets.

Whether they were lit with a propane torch or a match.

If burning pellets at a lower temperature offers an advantage in terms of smoke flavor....well then this can easily be accomplished by setting the PID controller to run at said lower temperatures.  And for longer periods without wide fluctuation.


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## johnmeyer

SlowmotionQue said:


> How do burning pellets know whether or not they’re being burned in a PID controlled grill or a non PID controlled grill?
> 
> Smoke coming from off of burning pellets,..... is smoke coming from off of burning pellets.
> 
> Whether they were lit with a propane torch or a match.


My fault for not explaining clearly what I meant.

You are absolutely correct that pellets are pellets, and fire is fire, etc. However, what I was trying to say is that the Traeger provides additional heat to the pellets, both via the igniter and also via the forced air, both of which regulate how hot the pellets get and also how much smoke they produce. By contrast, once the AMNPS is lit, all the pellets are able to do is smoulder and they get very little air compared to the huge amount of air blown into the combustion chamber in a Traeger.  The Traeger can produce very little smoke, or a lot of smoke, depending on the temperature you set and the amount of air being blown in.

So the nature of the smoke in the two systems -- even when using identical pellets -- can be quite different because of the different temperature at which the pellets burn and the amount of air they receive.

Some day I'm going to replace my MES, and when I do, I'll look for a smoker which completely separates the temperature regulation from the smoke generation. The "mailbox mod" doesn't really do that because I can't alter much of the smoke generation properties. In addition, from what I've read, you get far better-tasting smoke if you can burn a natural (unprocessed) piece of wood, because it is that full combustion which produces the best-balanced smoke (less creosote, among other things). I would very much like to some day not smoke with pellets.

The fantastic "geniusideas" site has a great description of this:

https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/janussmoker.html


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## SlowmotionQue

johnmeyer said:


> My fault for not explaining clearly what I meant.
> 
> You are absolutely correct that pellets are pellets, and fire is fire, etc. However, what I was trying to say is that the Traeger provides additional heat to the pellets, both via the igniter and also via the forced air, both of which regulate how hot the pellets get and also how much smoke they produce. By contrast, once the AMNPS is lit, all the pellets are able to do is smoulder and they get very little air compared to the huge amount of air blown into the combustion chamber in a Traeger.  The Traeger can produce very little smoke, or a lot of smoke, depending on the temperature you set and the amount of air being blown in.
> 
> So the nature of the smoke in the two systems -- even when using identical pellets -- can be quite different because of the different temperature at which the pellets burn and the amount of air they receive.
> 
> Some day I'm going to replace my MES, and when I do, I'll look for a smoker which completely separates the temperature regulation from the smoke generation. The "mailbox mod" doesn't really do that because I can't alter much of the smoke generation properties. In addition, from what I've read, you get far better-tasting smoke if you can burn a natural (unprocessed) piece of wood, because it is that full combustion which produces the best-balanced smoke (less creosote, among other things). I would very much like to some day not smoke with pellets.
> 
> The fantastic "geniusideas" site has a great description of this:
> 
> https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/janussmoker.html



Thanks for the explanation and the article.

I don’t own a Traeger due to some of the  videos out there showing some of them exploding.

But your description of what you meant, certainly sounds feasible.


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## johnmeyer

SlowmotionQue said:


> Thanks for the explanation and the article.
> 
> I don’t own a Traeger due to some of the  videos out there showing some of them exploding.
> 
> But your description of what you meant, certainly sounds feasible.


For those who didn't click on and read the article I linked to, here is the key "pull quote:

_The vast majority of smokers embody a fatal flaw- they intertwine temperature control with smoke flavor. Almost all smokers employ dampers to adjust air flow and thus combustion conditions and eventually cooking temperature. But, when you starve wood from oxygen, it tips the combustion reactions towards the bitter end of the chemical spectrum. Creosotes rather than phenols. Caustic rather than sweet. If you increase oxygen levels artificially, say with a fan, the wood burns so cleanly (complete "pyrolysis") that all the delicious flavor molecules are destroyed in the conflagration._​
This describes, with science, why I think the Traeger fails to produce enough smoke flavor, and why the almost air-tight MES and other electric smokers often produce too much creosote.


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## markh024

Little-m said:


> To me, if you need to augment your smoker with a device like an AMNPS, then there is little point in having the smoker.  You might as well just use a propane BBQ with the AMNPS - at least you would save money.


Pellet Grills.  Not true smokers. But the beauty of it is you can both grill and smoke, and with the added help of a tube, you can get that smoke profile up a notch. I've certainly been able to do so.  I see nothing wrong with a small $16 upgrade to enhance the flavor profile to where you'd like to be.


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## sandyut

I find that if i want more smoke flavor on a cook, I run at 180 (LO) for a few hours and then turn up the heat to get the cook done.  I can get a good smoke level with this process.  on a hot day LO pumps out the smoke.  I also adjusted the min auger rate to the lowest setting.  that will need to be dialed back up come winter.


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## NU2SMOKE

I am going to chime in and say that I must be very blessed with my Rec Tec Bull!  Not only does it give me great sweet tasting smoke but the proof in is the ring. This is a brand new pit to me...I have had it 2 weeks and do not use any additional smoke producing devices.  Here a couple of pics from ribs to beef.  I even did smoked mac and cheese and you could absolutely taste the smoke in it!


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## bregent

NU2SMOKE said:


> Not only does it give me great sweet tasting smoke but the proof in is the ring.



Not really. Smoke ring and smoke flavor do not go hand in hand. There are different compounds responsible for each. You can create a huge smoke ring with virtually no smoke flavor, and have a ton of smoke flavor with no smoke ring. I'm not saying you're not getting good smoke flavor, but smoke ring does not offer any proof of that.


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## sweetride95

My Smokin-It electric could put a pallet destroying amount of smoke on something and leave zero smoke ring. To cook anything responsibly, you had to weigh your wood chunks out by the ounce.


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## NU2SMOKE

bregent said:


> Not really. Smoke ring and smoke flavor do not go hand in hand. There are different compounds responsible for each. You can create a huge smoke ring with virtually no smoke flavor, and have a ton of smoke flavor with no smoke ring. I'm not saying you're not getting good smoke flavor, but smoke ring does not offer any proof of that.



If that is true then I shall stand corrected.  I was not aware of that information but would sure like to learn more about my hobby.  Please tell me more or direct me to where I can learn.


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## bregent

NU2SMOKE said:


> If that is true then I shall stand corrected.  I was not aware of that information but would sure like to learn more about my hobby.  Please tell me more or direct me to where I can learn.



Here's one article: https://amazingribs.com/more-techni...nce/mythbusting-smoke-ring-no-smoke-necessary

A bit more in depth from the same author: https://www.genuineideas.com/Assets/imageassets/NBBQA Talk- 2015- Greg Blonder.pdf


But I've seen it discussed on lots of websites, forums, etc.


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## SlowmotionQue

That site has a wealth of information on it about all matters related to smoking and grilling.

Over the years it’s been up, I’ve used it as reference and I’ve learned a lot from it.

NU2SMOKE you won’t go wrong studying the articles on that site.

It will clear up a lot of things about this hobby.


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## NU2SMOKE

SlowmotionQue said:


> That site has a wealth of information on it about all matters related to smoking and grilling.
> 
> Over the years it’s been up, I’ve used it as reference and I’ve learned a lot from it.
> 
> NU2SMOKE you won’t go wrong studying the articles on that site.
> 
> It will clear up a lot of things about this hobby.



I will be reading thru it intently....I never want to post any misinformation and if I have then I apologize. Thats how bad rumors start and I only want to help the hobby, not to cause problems from misinformation.  
Thank you 

 bregent
 for the links and helping me to learn even more!


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## archer75

sandyut said:


> I find that if i want more smoke flavor on a cook, I run at 180 (LO) for a few hours and then turn up the heat to get the cook done.  I can get a good smoke level with this process.  on a hot day LO pumps out the smoke.  I also adjusted the min auger rate to the lowest setting.  that will need to be dialed back up come winter.


That's how you do it.  I've been using a traeger for years and have no problem getting a smoke flavor.  I do wish it had more smoke flavor but not quite as much as a stick burner.
I do also have the tube but it doesn't help.  And the smoke from it doesn't smell good.


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## archer75

NU2SMOKE said:


> I am going to chime in and say that I must be very blessed with my Rec Tec Bull!  Not only does it give me great sweet tasting smoke but the proof in is the ring. This is a brand new pit to me...I have had it 2 weeks and do not use any additional smoke producing devices.  Here a couple of pics from ribs to beef.  I even did smoked mac and cheese and you could absolutely taste the smoke in it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 400946
> View attachment 400947


A rectec is a traeger.  They copied the traeger design and put the hopper on the back.  But it's essentially the same thing.


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## sweetride95

archer75 said:


> A rectec is a traeger.  They copied the traeger design and put the hopper on the back.  But it's essentially the same thing.



Now ya went and did it........


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## archer75

sweetride95 said:


> Now ya went and did it........


Lol. Yeah, I know.  But that's what they started with.  You can still see the traeger barrels in their design today.


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## sandyut

archer75 said:


> A rectec is a traeger.  They copied the traeger design and put the hopper on the back.  But it's essentially the same thing.


Well big NO on that...  Tragers dont even come close.  thats like say a mazzarati and VW are the same because they both have 4 wheels, just different paint.  Rec Tec is far superior to a trager in every way.

Not all pellet smoker are the same.


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## archer75

sandyut said:


> Well big NO on that...  Tragers dont even come close.  thats like say a mazzarati and VW are the same because they both have 4 wheels, just different paint.  Rec Tec is far superior to a trager in every way.
> 
> Not all pellet smoker are the same.


How's it superior?  Their first model was a direct copy. You can't look at it and say it's not. They probably got the barrel form the same manufacturer.  Same materials and all.  Just with the hopper on the back. They've made some tweaks since then with materials but the shape and dimensions are the same.  It's going to cook exactly the same as a traeger. 

In this case they just put different wheels on a VW, and more chrome. Still looks very similar, more bling, but performs the same.  There's no denying they copied the design.  Not knocking it, that's just what it is.


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## sandyut

looks similar does not equate to cooks exactly the same.


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## banderson7474

To me it seems the rec tec bull is the cadillac of pellet smokers and that's just by reading comments on here and my friend has one. I find it hard to believe it is the same as a Traeger especially since I've heard that the traeger owner Joe went to pit boss and the traeger's have gone down in quality since


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## archer75

banderson7474 said:


> To me it seems the rec tec bull is the cadillac of pellet smokers and that's just by reading comments on here and my friend has one. I find it hard to believe it is the same as a Traeger especially since I've heard that the traeger owner Joe went to pit boss and the traeger's have gone down in quality since


Cadillac? oh no not at all.  Midrange at best. The cadillac I would say is a Mak. Yoder is certainly up there. Memphis grills.

If anything Traegers quality has gone up with the ironwood and timberline.  The timberline especially puts them at a level they haven't been at. 
Though for years there they were stagnating and quality was slipping.

But look at the pictures, inside and out.  Same design.  Same barrel, same firepot in the same place burning the same pellets.  It cooks the same.  I do appreciate that they're using stainless in some places now.  That's good.


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## SlowmotionQue

archer75 said:


> A rectec is a traeger.  They copied the traeger design and put the hopper on the back.  But it's essentially the same thing.



Yep.  I understand your argument. I own a Rec Tec.

Just about everyone copied the Traeger.

A pellet grill only has a few essential parts. A cooking chamber, hopper, fan, igniter, burn pot, auger motor and auger and a means of measuring temperature.

It’s arguably the improvements on quality, build materials  and reliability on those and other parts which make the difference over the various offerings of pellet grills out there.

But yeah, it seems that pretty much everyone making pellet grills copied the Traeger design to some extent.

As far as “cooks the same”, well that’s arguable.

Heat distribution and how even it is or isn’t, cooking surfaces ie grate materials and air flow are three things I can immediately think of which might, and  likely, will make a difference in food produced on one cooker vs another.

But that would be true even if you’re talking a UDS or a cinder block pit.


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## archer75

SlowmotionQue said:


> Yep.
> 
> Just about everyone copied the Traeger.
> 
> A pellet grill only has a few essential parts. A cooking chamber, hopper, fan, igniter, burn pot, auger motor and auger and a means of measuring temperature.
> 
> It’s arguably the improvements on quality and reliability on those and other parts which make the difference over the various offerings of pellet grills out there.
> 
> But yeah, it seems that pretty much everyone making pellet grills copied the Traeger design to some extent.



Of course.  They all have the same basic components.  But all but rectec created their own designs.  Whereas rectec literally took the traeger barrel and put the hopper on the back.  Kept the same chimney and cover on it. Same firepot. Same controller on their first model. Same grates, drip pan, diffuser. In their case it was a blatant ripoff.  All they are is a blinged out traeger. These two, cook the same as a result.
Everyone else is at least doing something different and often times better.


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## banderson7474

I could be wrong but i'm told that the warranty on the rec is better than the yoder

but at those costs, you are bound to get a nice machine


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## SlowmotionQue

archer75 said:


> Cadillac? oh no not at all.  Midrange at best. The cadillac I would say is a Mak. Yoder is certainly up there. Memphis grills.
> 
> If anything Traegers quality has gone up with the ironwood and timberline.  The timberline especially puts them at a level they haven't been at.
> Though for years there they were stagnating and quality was slipping.
> 
> But look at the pictures, inside and out.  Same design.  Same barrel, same firepot in the same place burning the same pellets.  It cooks the same.  I do appreciate that they're using stainless in some places now.  That's good.



Cookshack Fast Eddy is up there too.

But when you start talkin pellet grills like MAK and some Yoders, Fast Eddy, you’re up and over 2 grand with minimal accessories.

Rec Tec seems to be targeting the mid price range.

It’s tough to beat them at the price point that they seem to tend to focus on.

IMO, they dominate the pool they swim in.


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## SlowmotionQue

banderson7474 said:


> I could be wrong but i'm told that the warranty on the rec is better than the yoder
> 
> but at those costs, you are bound to get a nice machine



Bull has the 6yr warranty.

I don’t believe that anyone else tops that.


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## archer75

SlowmotionQue said:


> Cookshack Fast Eddy is up there too.
> 
> But when you start talkin pellet grills like MAK and some Yoders, Fast Eddy, you’re up and over 2 grand with minimal accessories.


There are maks, yoders and fast eddies starting $1600/$1800+.  But yeah, they are certainly pricey. And you're right about the accessories. 
I'm in the market for an upgrade myself.


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## SlowmotionQue

archer75 said:


> There are maks, yoders and fast eddies starting $1600/$1800+.  But yeah, they are certainly pricey. And you're right about the accessories.
> I'm in the market for an upgrade myself.


The cheapest  "latest" or "this year's" MAK I've seen out there, the MAK 1 Star General, is $1,800.00.  Just the grill.

The cover is another $100.00.  The "Flamezone" for searing steaks, if you want it, is another $400.00.

That would bring you to $2300.00.  Free shipping.

The bottom storage shelf, which is underneath the cooking chamber and sits between the grill's wheels, is another $150.00

That gets you to $2,450.00 for their bottom of the line grill with just those accessories.

But even if you skip the flame zone, you have $1800.00 for the grill, $150.00 for the bottom "storage" shelf which fits beneath the grill and the grill's wheels, and $100.00 for the cover.  That would top you out at $2,050.00 shipped.

I've seen them knock $100.00 off during the 4th of July or was it Memorial Day sale.

The Yoder YS480s, their smallest pellet grill,  comes in at $1,579.00 plus shipping.  It weighs in at 277lbs. Shipping won't be cheap.  The other option is to find a dealer, drive to them and pick it up.

The cover is $113.00.  Door thermometer is $59.95.  Dual door thermometers are $119.90 if you want them.

Perhaps the most popular Yoder out there, the YS640, now the YS640s, starts at $1,799.00.  The cover retails for $113.00.   Door thermometers, if you want them, refer to above.  And then there's shipping.

The Fast Eddy Cookshack PG500 retails for $1,815.00.  The cover retails for $142.29.


The Rec Tec Bull retails for $1,199.00.  The cover is $84.98.

Not that the other grills, the MAK, the Yoder and the Fast Eddy,  aren't great, but with the exception of the baby Yoder, the YS 480, all of them are going to run you into that 2 grand range.

If one wants to spend that kind of money on a pellet grill, well, that's certainly one's prerogative.  And they would definitely be getting a quality product.

But if you don't want to drop the better part of  2 grand or so  on a pellet grill and cover, the Rec Tec, IMO, is a very good option.

I thought about buying a MAK 1 Star when I bought my Stampede.  I paid $899.00 shipped for my Stampede.    I'm sure that the MAK is great.  But is worth  $1,151.00 more than my Stampede?   I decided that for ME, it wasn't.  It may well be to someone else.  But grilling real estate, hopper size, etc., for me, I didn't think that I was going to get food off of it which tasted $1151.00 better than food that I would get off the Stampede.

I bought the Stampede.  And liked it so much, that  a few months later,  I bought another one and gave it away as a house warming gift.  And was still only down $1800.00 for those TWO Stampedes, vs the $2,050.00 I would have been down for just ONE MAK 1 Star.

Good luck to you archer75.  Happy grilling and smoking whatever you decide on.


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## archer75

*IF* one wants those accessories, yes. But not everyone needs or wants those so best to leave those out and the individual can decide what they need.

I don't need a cover or shelf or sear zone. I only care about the base price.

I'd put rec-tec, green mountain, pit boss and traeger (except ironwood/timberline) in the same category.  Since I already have a smoker in that category the only worthwhile upgrade is to go up to those more expensive options.

The mak is going to have the best smoke output and with it's stainless construction it's going to last forever. And they're made not even 100 miles from me.  I have a yoder dealer across town so I don't have to pay shipping. And I can get a Traeger Timberline right down the road and it comes with a $100 gift card to a local butcher.  So I have some options!


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## SlowmotionQue

archer75 said:


> *IF* one wants those accessories, yes. But not everyone needs or wants those so best to leave those out and the individual can decide what they need.
> 
> I don't need a cover or shelf or sear zone. I only care about the base price.



Each to his own. But no way I'd spend that kind of money for a pellet grill and not cover it over the winter or when not in use if it were being kept outside.

No way I'd have snow, ice, rain, pollen  bird crap and everything else on top of my $1,800.00 pellet grill, just sitting there, and sometimes just sitting there for days, weeks or months.  I don't necessarily "need" to, but I like to take care of my things as best I can.

Furthermore, if I'm going to drop that kind of dough on a pellet grill, well then I might want the best  means that it has to offer if I want to sear a steak.  That means the  sear zone,........... unless I already have a Weber Kettle, Kamado or better yet, a Salamander type cooker to sear steaks with.

And if I already have those, and that kind of additional grilling real estate already, and/or that kind of access to natural wood smoke flavor when I smoke, and/or that kind of high heat searing capability,   well then I'm probably not going to drop the better part of 2 grand on any pellet grill in the first place.  Forget the extra dough for the accessories.

But again, I emphasize, that's just my way of thinking. YMMV.

But really,  when I was looking, I asked myself; "Why would I pi$$ around with an $1800.00 MAK, which won't get anywhere close to this below, in terms of searing temp, with or without a sear zone, when I can already do this on one what I already have?:























archer75 said:


> I'd put rec-tec, green mountain, pit boss and traeger (except ironwood/timberline) in the same category.



Perhaps I'd do the same, depending on the parameters of the category.....Or perhaps not.  I lean towards not for several reasons.

But even if I were to put them all into the same category, I'd still have to pick a leader of that particular category.

That leader IMO, is Rec Tec.  Hands down.  I could go into why I say that.  But I won't.



archer75 said:


> Since I already have a smoker in that category the only worthwhile upgrade is to go up to those more expensive options.



I can certainly understand that way of thinking, if one is talking about an "upgrade" amongst pellet grills.

But at the same time, I also see it as likely a lateral move in some ways.  But again, just my opinion.

However I'm also of the opinon that pellet grills, and just pellets,  have their very real limitations when it comes to smoke flavor to begin with.

And so in my own case, I concluded that even if I did  go to one of the "more expensive options", it still would not trump the food that I can produce off of my $400.00 WSM, in terms of smoke flavor.  Someone else may see it the same way.

And it's still not going to produce food that is "$1000.00 better" than food that I can cook on my $899.00 Rec Tec.

Because pellet grills have their limits on smoke flavor vs cookers which use real wood and/or charcoal, I look at "expensive pellet grills", such as  MAK,  much in the same way that  I'd look at the "smartest guy in a group of intellectually challenged guys".

He might be the best in that particular group.  Might be the top dog.  But at the end of the day, he's the best of what,  and the best amongst whom?

Really, he's the best amongst midgets.  And so to me, an "expensive pellet grill", ....in the context and arena  of smoke flavor producing cookers,  is a "best amongst flavorful smoke producing midgets."

After all, it's still burning pellets, I don't care how much it cost.  And pellets, have their limitations when it comes to mimicking true charcoal or seasoned wood flavor on food.

That's why I don't hold high priced pellet grills in that great of esteem.  But that's just me.  Some others see it differently, of course.   But it's why I won't spend right at 2 grand for a pellet grill.  Any pellet grill.  And why I  look at "elite or Cadillac amongst pellet grills,..... similar to how I would look at  a list of;  "elite or Cadillac amongst cheap wines".



archer75 said:


> The mak is going to have the best smoke output and with it's stainless construction it's going to last forever. And they're made not even 100 miles from me.



Nothing last forever, and for all the hype, a MAK is still a pellet grill.  It's burning compressed sawdust pellets, as opposed to lump charcoal, and/or seasoned hardwood.

By extension, it's not going to produce a smoke flavor to "my tastes", and that's all that matters "to me", which can rival my old offset stick burner, and now either of my WSMs.

Personally, I was not willing to spend $1800.00, to verify that which I already know.

So I chose what I concluded was the best of the bunch of the category that we discussed earlier.



archer75 said:


> I have a yoder dealer across town so I don't have to pay shipping. And I can get a Traeger Timberline right down the road and it comes with a $100 gift card to a local butcher.  So I have some options!



Good to see that you have options that not everyone has.

Again, best of luck, whatever you decide.


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## archer75

SlowmotionQue said:


> Each to his own. But no way I'd spend that kind of money for a pellet grill and not cover it over the winter or when not in use if it were being kept outside.
> 
> No way I'd have snow, ice, rain, pollen  bird crap and everything else on top of my $1,800.00 pellet grill, just sitting there, and sometimes for days.



Mine stays in the garage.  It has never, in 8 years, had so much as a drop of rain on it.  I just leave it at the front of the garage and open the door and smoke away.  The garage has an overhang as well so I can push it in the driveway a bit and it stays dry.



SlowmotionQue said:


> Furthermore, if I'm going to drop that kind of dough on a pellet grill, well then I might want the best that it has to offer if I want to sear a steak.  That means the  sear zone, unless I already have a Weber Kettle or Kamado to sear steaks on.


I have other options for searing steaks.

And with the cast iron pan or grates I already have I can certainly and easily do a reverse sear on a pellet smoker.  But mostly I go with another option. Depends on my mood.



SlowmotionQue said:


> And so even if I did  go to one of the "more expensive options", it still would not trump the food that I can produce off of my $400.00 WSM, in terms of smoke flavor if I'm willing to stay up all night and babysit it.



Just different is all.  A different smoke profile. I sometimes smoke with charcoal/wood in a drum.  Depending on what I feel like.

I was looking at picking up a WSM as well to take camping as it seems pretty portable.  I see you can get fans/probes for them that manage the temp for you.  I haven't looked too much in to it.



SlowmotionQue said:


> Nothing last forever, and for all the hype, a MAK is still a pellet grill.  It's burning compressed sawdust pellets, as opposed to lump charcoal, and/or seasoned hardwood.
> 
> By extension, it's not going to produce a smoke flavor to "my tastes", and that's all that matters "to me", which can rival my old offset stick burner, and now either of my WSMs.


If not forever then certainly longer than most others.  But compared to other pellet smokers it's going to get more smoke in the food.

But you're certainly right, it's all about personal preference and taste and what that's worth to you.
I like having a variety of options be that pellet, charcoal, wood or gas. I use them all for different reasons.  Most of the time pellet as it's just easier.  Especially now that I have a busier schedule. So it's worth it for me to drop some money on getting a quality one(I already have a midrange one).  And one I can manage remotely and that produces more smoke.
But of course that may not be important to everyone.


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## SlowmotionQue

archer75 said:


> Mine stays in the garage.  It has never, in 8 years, had so much as a drop of rain on it.  I just leave it at the front of the garage and open the door and smoke away.  The garage has an overhang as well so I can push it in the driveway a bit and it stays dry.
> 
> 
> I have other options for searing steaks.
> 
> And with the cast iron pan or grates I already have I can certainly and easily do a reverse sear on a pellet smoker.  But mostly I go with another option.   Depends on my mood.



My cars take up my garage, but to the gist of the above, yep, I agree.  Like you, depends on my mood as well which of my cookers I use and for what.  I love having options.  I also hear you on the cast iron.     Accumulating it over the years, I now have more cast iron in my possession than I can shake a stick at.   Grates, griddles, skillets, pots, Dutch ovens, oyster grill pans, brie bakers, etc..... It's a pain to keep seasoned, but it is my favorite cooking surface.

One of these in the link below, or something similar is in my crosshairs now, and after I do a bit more research, I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger.

https://www.ottogrills.com




archer75 said:


> Just different is all.  A different smoke profile. I sometimes smoke with charcoal/wood in a drum.  Depending on what I feel like.
> 
> I was looking at picking up a WSM as well to take camping as it seems pretty portable.  I see you can get fans/probes for them that manage the temp for you.  I haven't looked too much in to it.



Yes, definitely "different".  And it's a "difference" that I've grown accustomed to. But I still very much enjoy the taste of food cooked over "real" wood and charcoal.
But I also love my Rec Tec for it's sheer and unrivaled convenience and technology, yet combined with simplicity,  vs my other cookers.

I don't even have to go outside to light it.  I don't even need to be at home to light it.



archer75 said:


> If not forever then certainly longer than most others.  But compared to other pellet smokers it's going to *get more smoke in the food*.



Well, you seem like a knowledgable person, and so I bet you know this already.  But I'm going to just throw this out there for if not you, then for someone else who might be interested about smoke and food.

Smoke doesn't get "into" food, or more specifically meat,  to any appreciable extent.  The smoke flavor that one tastes in food, is primarily as a result of smoke, and the quality and quantity of that smoke, which got  "onto" the food.

Smoke flavor is almost all on the surface of meat.  Smoke really does not get into, or penetrate meat to amount to much.

It's a very good read, scroll down for the specifics on what I'm referring to.

https://amazingribs.com/more-techni...iring/what-you-need-know-about-wood-smoke-and

What this means to me is, if I can expose my meat to the quality smoke, or the thin blue smoke that I want, and for the period of time that I want it, well then it doesn't much matter which device/cooker I use to do that, just as long as I get that done.

And when it comes to pellets, I wonder, once you get to a certain point,  if one pellet grill, *burning the same pellets from out of the same bag* as the next pellet grill, does that, ie get quality smoke onto the surface of meat,  any better than the other.

Somehow, I doubt it.

Pellet smoke, is pellet smoke.  No matter which burn pot produced it.

Why would Lumberjack Competition Blend pellet smoke, produced from a hot Rec Tec burn pot, smell or taste any different once it got onto food,  than Lumberjack Competition Blend pellet smoke, coming from the burn pot of a Yoder or a MAK?

I could be wrong.  But I have a hard time believing, a very hard time believing,  that the average person, in a blind taste test, could identify for instance ribs, cooked on a Yoder, vs a MAK, vs a Rec Tec, .........using pellets which came from out of the same bag of pellets.

There certainly would not be $1,000.00 worth of difference.  At least not to me anyway, and that's even *IF* I could tell the difference.

The takeaway though I think, is that if one is looking for a smoker which is supposed to get more smoke into the meat, well then it might pay to read up on both smoke and meat, and what happens when we smoke meat and how well, or not,  smoke  actually penetrates meat.



archer75 said:


> But you're certainly right, it's all about personal preference and taste and what that's worth to you.
> I like having a variety of options be that pellet, charcoal, wood or gas. I use them all for different reasons.  Most of the time pellet as it's just easier.  Especially now that I have a busier schedule. So it's worth it for me to drop some money on getting a quality one(I already have a midrange one).  And one I can manage remotely and that produces more smoke.
> But of course that may not be important to everyone.



Agreed again, and I approach my outdoor cooking the same way.

You mentioned earlier in your post  WSMs, and "fans/probes for them that manage the temp for you".

Been there, done that too.  BBQ Guru CyberQ.  3  meat probes, chamber probe, spare fan,  WiFi, alarms, the works.

IMO, not worth the money.  Why?????

They operate on a principal of blowing air over the coals in an attempt to stoke the fire, using a small motorized fan, through one of the bottom vents.

The trouble is, heat inside your cooker depends on both air and fuel.

As the fuel is consumed, after awhile, the fan blows harder and harder.  Problem is, blowing air over used up, dead and dying coals won't do you much good towards maintaining your temps.

But what you will get, is ash from consumed coals being blown all over your food.

The fan blows at a percentage, based upon what the device's food chamber probe is reading.  As temp drops, the fan blows harder and closer to 100%.

But temps drop when your fuel is close to expiring.  You can blow all the air you like over dead and dying coals, your temps aren't going to go up.

On the opposite end fo the spectrum, they also don't "apply the brakes" like a good PID controlled pellet grill does.

If your temps start to rise using one of these Guru type devices, well then there's not a whole lot that you can do.

That's part of the beauty of a good pellet grill.  It regulates both fuel, by dispensing pellets, and air, by the control of the fan.  It adds more pellets and air if your temps drop, and backs off on the pellets and air as your temps rise.

I'm also with you on the remote capabilities.  I love the WiFi and PID capabilities of my Rec Tec, and the convenience is a large part of why I'm willing to somewhat sacrifice on the depth of smoke flavor vs the smoke flavor that I can produce on one of my WSMs, my Kamado, or my Weber Kettle.


----------



## SlowmotionQue

archer75 said:


> Of course.  They all have the same basic components.  But all but rectec created their own designs.  Whereas rectec literally took the traeger barrel and put the hopper on the back.  Kept the same chimney and cover on it. Same firepot. Same controller on their first model. Same grates, drip pan, diffuser. In their case it was a blatant ripoff.  All they are is a blinged out traeger. These two, cook the same as a result.




I missed this earlier, and felt compelled to respond to it.

I believe that this is at least the second time you refer to Rec Tec's "first model".

The first Traeger pellet grills came out in 1988, I believe.  Anyone feel free to correct this if wrong.  Rec Tec made their first pellet grill in 2009, so about 21 years later.

The Traeger patent expired in 2006.  By 2009, more than one competitor was making pellet grills and it has only expanded.

Since 2009, Rec Tec has improved their product and expanded their product line.  Just in quality of parts used in construction, the Rec Tec  line has moved ahead of the Traeger.  Forget the accuracy of temperature control and their PID controller.

To continue to refer to Rec Tec's "first model", and compare it to Traegers of 10 yrs ago in your argument, is a bit disingenuous.  Rec Tec's  "first model" came out 10 years ago.  They have come a long way since then.



archer75 said:


> Everyone else is at least doing something different and often times better.



"Everyone else", covers a pretty broad group.

But you say "Everyone else is at least doing something different and often times better."

OK.......What is it that "everyone else" is doing "different" and "often times better" than Rec Tec?

I'm immensely curious as to what all this might encompass,  and I'll wait for your response.

And BTW, you say that Rec Tecs and Traegers cook the same?  Am I following you here?

Please elaborate.  Because it can be argued, and effectively so,  that because of their general design, pellet fed fire pot, almost always center mounted, diffuser plate, fan, drip pan, their use of convection,  all pellet grills basically cook the same.

BTW, your argument, reminds me a bit of the argument that some Kamado owners have had.

A Vision Kamado from out of Home Depot, cooks the same, or ....better put, can cook food  just as good and which will disappear in the presence of family and  guest just as quickly, as food cooked on a Kamado Joe,  and as food cooked on a Big Green Egg or a Primo.

Of course some of the Big Green Egg folk will tell you that this isn't so, just like some of the MAK folk will tell you the same when pellet grills are being discussed and "bench raced"/compared

But they typically cannot demonstrate just why, when asked.


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## 6GRILLZNTN

SlowmotionQue said:


> I missed this earlier, and felt compelled to respond to it.



I may be stepping out of line Slow, and I mean no offense, but quit being so argumentative.  It goes against the nature of this forum.  Ford copied Chevy, and Chevy copied Ford.  If the end user is happy with their cook, then what does it matter?


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## SlowmotionQue

5GRILLZNTN said:


> I may be stepping out of line Slow, and I mean no offense, but quit being so argumentative.  It goes against the nature of this forum.  Ford copied Chevy, and Chevy copied Ford.  If the end user is happy with their cook, then what does it matter?



Indeed.

And no, I wouldn’t call it “stepping out of line” on anyone’s part. However it is curious that you direct your admonishment towards just myself when I ask for clarification on the following:



archer75 said:


> ...In their case it was a blatant ripoff.  *All they are is a blinged out traeger. These two, cook the same as a result.
> Everyone else is at least doing something different and often times better*.



That’s quite the assessment and conclusion. It stoked my curiosity.

However if my inquiry offends you, then I’ll ask him to elaborate and make my request  via private message instead of in the open forum, as I would like to know the truths which led him to arrive at this final conclusion,  which is reflected in those  last few sentences.  I’d like to  of course not violate  any forum decorum.

But at any rate, I shall do my best and endeavor  to avoid offending you any further.


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## Little-m

Oh yeah?  Well the volume on mine goes to 11.


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## sandyut

SlowmotionQue said:


> That’s quite the assessment and conclusion.



Understatement of the year!  Thank you SlowmotionQue.


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## mike243

Lot of brand bashing been going on when folks ask about a certain cooker, a lot of the replys are hearsay not first hand experience imo


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## NU2SMOKE

GUYS GUYS GUYS....Cant we all just get along and agree that REC TEC is the best!!!...LOL


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## banderson7474

Lets switch gears....

the only way to smoke correctly is to not wrap the meat and anyone that does is wrong


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## sweetride95

banderson7474 said:


> Lets switch gears....
> 
> the only way to smoke correctly is to not wrap the meat and anyone that does is wrong



OH NO YOU DIDN'T....


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## smokinq13

NU2SMOKE said:


> GUYS GUYS GUYS....Cant we all just get along and agree that REC TEC is the best!!!...LOL


NO...we all can agree that treager is overpriced Chinese crap!! Just like yeti coolers! ;D come at me!


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## sandyut

NU2SMOKE said:


> GUYS GUYS GUYS....Cant we all just get along and agree that REC TEC is the best!!!...LOL





smokinq13 said:


> NO...we all can agree that treager is overpriced Chinese crap!! Just like yeti coolers! ;D come at me!



Amen to both!  thanks guys!!  big like!


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## smokeisbest

markh024 said:


> Pellet Grills.  Not true smokers. But the beauty of it is you can both grill and smoke, and with the added help of a tube, you can get that smoke profile up a notch. I've certainly been able to do so.  I see nothing wrong with a small $16 upgrade to enhance the flavor profile to where you'd like to be.


Thanks everyone for your replies.  I purchased the AMZN and it is perfect.  Now i can set and forget which is the true beauty of the pellet grill, and I am getting a lot more smoke in those critical first three hours.  Best of both worlds!!  Problem solved..


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## smokeisbest

Richard Foster said:


> It's not so much the gear but the user knowing what to do with it. The best pit in the would can be a total waste in the hands of someone not knowing how to use it. Heck a lot of folks don't  even know what barbeque is must less how to cook it.


Not really - for all the technical reasons quoted above.


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## NU2SMOKE

Sooooo.....to wrap or not to wrap.....hmmmm.....


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## banderson7474

Haha


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