# Who roasts their own coffee on their BBQ or Grill?



## noboundaries

I love coffee, have since I was a kid delivering papers early mornings. Grew up on Folgers, then fell in love with coffee overseas when in the Navy.  I've been searching for that perfect cup ever since, but for some reason I never considered roasting my own beans. I was perfectly happy buying roasted beans at the grocery store and grinding them for use.

Thanks to hillbillyjim and ljroller in a thread called Smoked Coffee, the seed of roasting my own beans was planted between my ears.  I had no desire to buy an expensive coffee roaster, so I started watching YouTube videos about roasting coffee beans in a frying pan, plus dozens of other videos about home roasting coffee. Due to smoke and chaff, this is something you want to do outside.  My gasser side burner was perfect.

All that was needed to home roast coffee was any type of frying pan, an infrared thermometer (and this isn't essential), something to stir the beans while roasting, a timer, and something to cool the beans quickly when they are done, like a fan and a strainer.

I had everything I needed except the beans.  Went online to Amazon and purchased 3 lbs of unroasted, Nicaraguan, Single Ranch, Specialty beans from Primos Coffee Company. Price was $18.99, or $6.33/lb.

I've always liked a darker roast with an oily finish. Extremely dark French and Italian roasts, which I have consumed for years, have an oily finish.  Then I learned that's how bad beans are roasted to be sold. I decided to try something just a little lighter with my own roasting.  The beans are still dark brown, but not black, and they have a satin finish, not oily.

Roasting process: Preheat the pan to 350F on a gas grill side burner, or over a hot charcoal fire (looking forward to doing the charcoal thing), add the beans to your pan, start the timer, and stir continuously, watching for color changes, listening for 1st crack (popcorn popping sound), second crack (Rice Crispies snap), and the color you want on your beans. If things progress a little too quickly, just lift the pan off the heat and keep stirring.

The majority of the beans should crack between 6-8 minutes, as late as 9-10 minutes. A couple minutes later, the second crack sounds.  When you see the color you want, turn off the heat and cool the beans quickly over a fan, putting them in a strainer or colander while you stir the beans.  They cool in a couple minutes. Put the cool beans in a Ziplock bag, not completely sealed, and let them outgas CO2 for a few hours (4 to 48, depending who you're listening to).  Grind what you need for a cup or pot of coffee, and enjoy.

First roast ever: 10/20/17.  1/2 cup of green beans and a small frying pan.  I over heated my pan, scorched the beans, but still ended up with great tasting coffee.  Total roasting time was 12 minutes, then another 3 minutes to cool.  Beans were inconsistent in color from black to dark brown.  Let them offgas for about 18 hours then ground enough for my single cup (12 oz) cone filtered coffee maker.  Wow.  Later, made an 8 oz cup in one of my three Italian Moka pots (3 cup, 6 cup, 9 cup, but they are espresso cups, like 2 oz each).  Unbelievably rich and delicious, even with the scorching issue.

Picture of first roast. You can see the color inconsistency.








Second Roast ever, 10/21/17. Went to GoodWill and for $2.88 I purchased a 4" deep by 8" diameter, heavy duty pan and a wooden spatula.  The deeper pan stopped me from splashing beans out of the pan while I stirred them.  It worked like a charm.











I prepped everything I thought I'd need, but never used the gloves. I needed them with the frying pan, but not with this deeper pan.











Added 1 cup of green beans to a properly heated pan (took 1 min 20 seconds to reach 350F), then started stirring.  Sorry, didn't get any pics of the beans turning color or cracking off the chaff.  Everything happens pretty fast.















Total time on this roast was 15 minutes using this deeper pan and more beans. Result was a much more consistent color and roast. Can't wait to try them tomorrow morning.











1 cup of green beans weighed 6.25 oz. After roasted, they weighed 5.10 oz and measured almost 1 3/4 cups.  Yes, the beans swell when roasted.  That amount will last me probably 3 to 4 days. I usually have a 12 oz mug in the morning, and a 3 or 6 cup Moka pot in the early afternoon.

Beans in Ziplock, offgassing.







 If you love coffee, and you have not tried roasting your own beans, give it a shot.  It is SOOOO easy!  The difference in taste is amazing.

Thank for hanging in there if you made it this far.  Happy Roasting!

Ray


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## wild west

Thank you for posting this. My wife and i were talking about trying this a few days ago and you detailed post has inspired us to give this a try.


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## noboundaries

You're very welcome WW.  Happy to help. 

I brewed my coffee this morning with a Melita pour-over cone and filter. The "bloom" of freshly roasted and ground coffee when first hit with 200F water is WAAAAAY more active than ground store bought beans.  I finished my mug of coffee 20 minutes ago, and can still savor the flavor, in a good way, not that stale "I gotta brush my teeth" way. 

My wife, who is not a coffee drinker at all, took the mug out of my hand and took a sip.  She went, "Yep, that's coffe....wow, that's not bitter at all."  I might finally turn her into a coffee drinker.

Have fun roasting!


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## noboundaries

This morning was the first time I brewed a mug of the second batch of roasted coffee.  Not only was it more evenly roasted, but it had "rested" for 40 hours prior to brewing.  Same bean, completely different taste than the first batch. The second batch was smoother, sweeter (no sugar added), and richer tasting.  The lingering aftertaste was lighter. 

I've learned that roasting the same bean to different levels of roast will create different flavor profiles, and my first two experiences roasting coffee support that fact. 

It is also interesting that the chaff which pops off the bean while roasting is called "silver skin" and that a "rest" period is required to maximize flavor.  Familiar terminology for my grill and BBQ. 

Next time I do jerky, I'll smoke some green and roasted beans in the WSM.


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## noboundaries

I'm sitting here sipping a mug of French press coffee from my third roast.  I roasted it slightly lighter than the second roast to see how the flavor would change.  The coffee people call the lighter roasts more acidic, which like fruit, is more tart. The flavors expand across the tongue differently than the darker roast, and is less sweet, but just as satisfying.

So why am I telling you this?  Roasting coffee on my side burner reminds me of the first time I successfully smoked meat.  For decades I ate restaurant BBQ substantially less satisfying than what I remember decades ago in South Texas. My first successful smoke with mesquite wood though, brought those South Texas BBQ memories rushing back to life on my tastebuds.  I've been a smoking fool ever since, rarely spending money in BBQ restaurants.

The same thing has happened to me now with coffee, only the flavor memories were from wonderfully rich cups of coffee enjoyed ashore in Singapore and Kenya. The taste experience of those cups was so memorable I can still picture in detail the physical surroundings of those moments so long ago. I've bought roasted beans for decades at grocers, but I'm done with that now that I can roast my own and there's so much more flavor.

Thank you for reading.  I'll switch back to posting about brisket, ribs, pork butt, and charcoal, but my coffee enjoyment has been forever changed by my BBQ's side burner, a pan, green beans, and a coffee grinder.

Happy smoking everyone!

Ray


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## amlong88

That's awesome! I've been using an old air popcorn popper. Works pretty well but they burn out quick. I like to take mine a little after second crack. With your instructions I'll be doing on the grill. Thank you!


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## noboundaries

amlong88 said:


> That's awesome! I've been using an old air popcorn popper. Works pretty well but they burn out quick. I like to take mine a little after second crack. With your instructions I'll be doing on the grill. Thank you!



You're very welcome AL88!  I've been sticking to roasting 1 cup of green beans just because I'm new and testing the flavor profiles available in the three pounds of green beans I purchased.  I could probably increase my roast to 1 1/2 cups of green beans, maybe even a little more, but I'm in no hurry.  I'm drinking more coffee than I have in a long time.  5 to 5 1/2 ounces of roasted coffee is only lasting me a couple days. I'll slow back down once I decide what I like best.  In the meantime, there's a world of green coffee beans to roast.........literally!

I ordered 5 coffees from Sweet Maria's in Oakland.  Two from Central America, one from South America, and two from Africa.  Cost, including shipping, was $6.78/lb for 5 lbs.  If you know a great place to get green beans, let me know.

Enjoy the pan roast.


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## noboundaries

My goodness, I've found another use for my outdoor grilling equipment that is just as addictive as smoking meat.  I'm keeping spreadsheets and learning something with each roast.  Once again, it is time, temperature, standing over the fire and stirring.  The great thing is, when you have the process nailed down, you are done in 20-30 minutes from the point your brain says "I think I'll roast some coffee" to walking away from a paper bag filled with brown bean goodness that is outgassing CO2 for a couple days.

I've learned I'm not a medium roast guy.  It tastes great, but I've decided I don't like the apple-like tartness the medium roasts deliver.

I always thought I was a dark French roast guy, but there's a roast level called Full City just before you get into the French roasts that is my new favorite. Without sugar, the coffee has a sweetness and chocolate taste that is amazing.  Pan roasting coffee can give a bit of variation in color and roast, but the flavor balances out in the middle.  I'm still experimenting with time and temps, but just like BBQ, the failures are delicious.

I've doubled my coffee intake since I started roasting my own beans.  Now I have a mug in the morning, and another in the early afternoon.  Occasionally I'll sneak in a third.  So good. That three pound bag of green beans I started with has one more 8 oz roast left on it, then it will be gone.

Here's my first City to Full City roast.  It took 24 minutes, which was too long, but it still tasted great.







Then here is the next roast that took 13.5 minutes as I adjusted my technique to get it in the 12-15 minute roast window I wanted. There's a little more color variation, with a range of Full City to Vienna (a light French roast).  Can't wait to try it in a couple of days.


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## noboundaries

Still learning how to roast coffee.  I thought learning to smoke meat was fascinating, but learning to roast coffee is like some illegal drug feeding my analytical personality.

It took me five "BBQ side burner with a deep pan and a wooden spatula" roasts to figure out how to get the beans to just the right roast profile I enjoy.  I finished my 9th roast yesterday.  In 30 minutes I can be done with prep, pre-heat, roast, cleanup, and have the roasted beans resting.  I roast 8-8.5 oz of green beans at a time.  A pound of green beans is lasting me 7-8 days with two brews a day.

What I have found most amazing is how the flavor of the bean changes for the first few days after being roasted.  I could drink the Nicaraguan after 24 hours, but it was best between 48 and 72 hours, then it slowly kind of mellowed.

I just started roasting a Costa Rican bean this week.  Hated it after 24 hours, very sour and astringent tasting.  Tried it again at 48 and 54 hours; MUCH better, still just a tad sour tasting, but the flavor that had developed was incredible. I suspect the sour will be gone after 72-96 hours, but so will that roast of coffee.  I roasted a second batch 24 hours after the first, so first brew will be between 72-96 hours of rest.

Here's the new process I'm using.
1. I take one of the iron grates from my gas grill and put it over my side burner. Doing so more evenly distributes the heat.
2. I pre-heat the pan seen in the picture above to 440-485F on the IR thermometer.  Burner is on high.
3. Dump in the beans, start a phone timer, and slowly stir the beans. I use a kind of figure 8 pattern to keep the beans moving.
4. At 3 minutes on the timer I drop the burner heat to medium and start stirring the beans a little faster.
5. At 6 minutes on the timer I drop the burner heat to low and start stirring the beans more quickly.  First "crack" usually happens close to this time.
6. I keep stirring the beans, listening for the end of the first crack, which usually happens around 10 minutes. I'll shoot the beans with the infrared and take a reading.  The beans are usually around 400F at this point.
7. I keep stirring the beans, listening for the start of the second crack, which is like Rice Crispies. It usually happens around the 11-12 minute mark.  I'm shooting the beans with the infrared every 30 seconds.  My target is 425F bean temp.
8. Depending on your outside temp the beans usually hit my target between 13.5 and 15 minutes. I'm also watching the color of the beans.  If I start seeing beans turn black, I'm done. At that point you are into the Light French roast stage, aka Vienna roast.
9. Then I pour the beans into a mesh colander, hold them over a fan set on high, and stir them quickly to cool the beans and stop the roast. Takes just 2-3 minutes. 
10. Then I rest the beans in an open Ziplock bag for 24 hours before transferring to a clean jar with a loose lid to allow offgassing.  Seal it up after 72 hours or so.
11. Grind just before use, drink and enjoy.

The temps I mentioned above work for me.  Temps I've found on the Internet are all OVER the place, from way lower to way higher.  Mine are closer to what I've found on Wikipedia.

So far I've tried green beans from Amazon (supplied by Primos Coffee Company in Texas), and Sweet Maria's in Oakland, CA.  They have roasted quite similar to each other.  I'm getting another 5 lb batch today from Amazon (supplied by Smokin' Beans Coffee Company in Louisville, GA).  I need to start making Christmas gifts. I make a Mexican Coffee Liqueur and will roast my own Mexican coffee beans for this year's liqueur.

Roasted Costa Rican beans from my latest batch:


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## dcarch

Make life easier and your roast more consistent. Use a rotisserie. No more stirring.

dcarch


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## noboundaries

dcarch said:


> Make life easier and your roast more consistent. Use a rotisserie. No more stirring.
> dcarch



No doubt. I have a rotisserie for my old gasser, but the mounts have disappeared so I'd have to make something. If roasting coffee took, say, an hour, I'd already have concocted something, but 12-15 minutes is nothing. I like watching the beans change colors, hearing the cracks, and finding the proper time to stop using the IR therm.  My color variations have become much more consistent.


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## dcarch

noboundaries said:


> No doubt. I have a rotisserie for my old gasser, but the mounts have disappeared so I'd have to make something. If roasting coffee took, say, an hour, I'd already have concocted something, but 12-15 minutes is nothing. I like watching the beans change colors, hearing the cracks, and finding the proper time to stop using the IR therm.  My color variations have become much more consistent.



 I can roast at least one pound each time. 

dcarch


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## noboundaries

Yep, that's the drawback to pan roasting. 10 oz seems to be the most I can do with my current pan and still get an even roast.


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## tallbm

Wow great thread and super fascinating!!!!

I read the whole thread and I don't even drink coffee, no caffeine for me basically any time of day or I will NEVER get to sleep hahaha.  I would love to make this as a gift though.

There is a company called Christopher Bean that roasts the beans when you order.  On their bag they have a little roast meter identifying the type of roast (light, dark, etc.) with the temp the beans are roasted to.  It seems they go to 428F for a lot of their flavored and regular type flavored coffee.  Their bags/flavors with the the temp on them may give you some ideas for other coffee types and flavors you may shoot for :)

Anyhow, on to my questions.

Have you ground any beans and let the grinds sit a week or so to see how the flavors do?  
Do you see any issue with me grinding the beans in my Magic Bullet with the grinder blade?  I read online it should be no issue but I don't know if these beans would be any harder or different.
Have you gotten into any beans that have really sweet or fruity flavors?  I read that Costa Rican beans can taste chocolaty and Ethiopian beans taste buttery.

Thanks for the input and again, wonderful topic!!!


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## tallbm

Wow just read an interesting article on Ethiopian beans from the Yirgacheffe region and how wet processing vs natural (dry) processing has a major difference in the bean's flavor outcome.

In short natural (dry) processed Yirgacheffe Ethiopian beans are very fruity and flavorful where the wet processed ones are described with words like "floral", "citrus notes", "delicate", etc.

I guess this starts to answer some of my bean flavor questions.  I ask because this particular person likes fruit flavored coffees and the process of flavoring coffees seems to be quite involved and uses any number of chemicals to do the trick.

Here's that article for a good read :)
https://beanbox.co/blog/ethiopian-coffee-yirgacheffe/


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## noboundaries

tallbm said:


> Wow great thread and super fascinating!!!!
> 
> I read the whole thread and I don't even drink coffee, no caffeine for me basically any time of day or I will NEVER get to sleep hahaha.  I would love to make this as a gift though.
> 
> There is a company called Christopher Bean that roasts the beans when you order.  On their bag they have a little roast meter identifying the type of roast (light, dark, etc.) with the temp the beans are roasted to.  It seems they go to 428F for a lot of their flavored and regular type flavored coffee.  Their bags/flavors with the the temp on them may give you some ideas for other coffee types and flavors you may shoot for :)
> 
> Anyhow, on to my questions.
> 
> Have you ground any beans and let the grinds sit a week or so to see how the flavors do?
> Do you see any issue with me grinding the beans in my Magic Bullet with the grinder blade?  I read online it should be no issue but I don't know if these beans would be any harder or different.
> Have you gotten into any beans that have really sweet or fruity flavors?  I read that Costa Rican beans can taste chocolaty and Ethiopian beans taste buttery.
> 
> Thanks for the input and again, wonderful topic!!!



Here's what I've learned about beans to answer your questions:
1. Prior to roasting my own coffee, I always bought unground beans at the grocery store then ground them at home as needed in my Cuisinart burr grinder.  Occasionally, I would grind enough for the week so I wouldn't wake my wife up.  I could tell slight difference in the taste, but not enough to worry about.  I was happy with the results.

Flash forward to roasting my own.  I still have some of the ground, store-bought beans in my airtight container and use it when it is too early to grind coffee and my wife is still sleeping.  There is such a HUGE difference in the taste of those ground store-bought beans and the fresh roasted, freshly ground beans.  The store-bought beans don't "bloom" anywhere near as nicely as freshly ground beans.  Freshly ground beans release a lot of gas at the bloom.  Older, ground beans just kind of get wet.  That gas in the bean at the bloom is an indicator of flavor extraction. 

Roasted, unground beans stay fresh for up to three weeks from the date they are roasted.  Freshly roasted beans that have been ground start losing flavor almost immediately, but start going flat and stale after 12 hours.  Since I've started roasting my own, I grind before each brew. Sometimes I grind a little more than I need, and just leave the extra in the catch bin of my Cuisinart burr grinder, which is semi-airtight.  When I mix it with freshly ground beans for the next roast, which could be 6-15 hours later, I really haven't noticed a difference in taste.

2. Magic bullet?  Should work fine, just don't let the beans heat up a lot when grinding.

3. Differences in beans.  I'm too new to roasting to really comment on the flavor differences between the beans.  I do know for a fact that the same bean, roasted to different levels, will taste different due to the Maillard reaction, which is the chemical reaction of amino acids, proteins, and sugars in the beans to heat, which includes caramelization of sugars at higher temps.  The 428F you mentioned above is about what I do, which is a Full City roast.  It still allows the origin of the bean to be present, and includes flavors from the roast, or Maillard reaction. 

How you brew it will also impact flavor.  I brew one of three ways.  1) Pour-over, flow-thru coffee tastes lightest. 2) French press brewed for 4 minutes tastes a little heavier. 3) Moka pot tastes the strongest of the three and brings out the true complexity of the roasted bean, but it is rich.  I usually have a Moka pot about every other day.  I actually like it the best compared to espresso, Greek, and Turkish brewing.

I roasted the 3 lbs of Nicaraguan beans to six different levels, the mildest being a cinnamon roast, the darkest being a Vienna roast, or light French.  The Nicaraguan beans I roasted were quite acidic, which I felt in my stomach.  They tasted great across the range of roasts, with the acidity dropping off the darker I roasted them.  They did have a chocolate tone at the Full City roast level, which is just before they start to blacken.  I liked the taste, but not the stomach issues. I probably won't buy them again due to the acidity. 

The only other beans I've roasted so far are Costa Rican.  I've roasted two batches to Full City.  After a 96 hour rest, then ground, the coffee is smooth, not acidic, and very uniform tasting in a pour-over.  In the moka pot they taste amazing, very rich.  I haven't done a French press brew with them yet.  I'll do that for my afternoon brew today.

The Nicaraguan beans would drape different flavors across your taste buds with each sip, not so the Costa Rican.  The flavor is more toffee-like than chocolate, slightly sweet, and has a very constant flavor. I'd buy the Costa Rican again in a heartbeat.     

I've got beans from 5 more countries to try (Guatemala, Brazil, Burundi, Rwanda, and Mexico).  Roasting beans from different countries is a lot like smoking different cuts of meat.  It's fun to find what you like best.


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## tallbm

I bought 2 pounds of 100% ETHIOPIA YIRGACHEFFE GR1 naturally processed green beans.  I know I PM'ed you about it but wanted to go ahead and mention it here as well.  I'll give this a shot and share my experiences with everyone.  :)


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## noboundaries

Good for you! I watched a "cupping" test recently on YouTube and those Ethiopian Yirgacheffe beans are supposedly the best tasting in the world that are readily available.  I needed to add that clarification because there are some insanely expensive green coffees that command up to $350/lb.


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## noboundaries

Resting the coffee after roasting.  There seems to be a debate among home roasters on the Internet about the need to rest coffee after roasting.  Personally, there's no debate; the coffee needs to rest, and different coffees need to rest different lengths of time.  I've only roasted two types of coffee (Nicaraguan and Costa Rican), but I've been recording taste and length of time since roasted each time I make a brew.  The taste definitely improves with the rest

I've started drinking my coffee 21 to 24 hours after the beans are roasted.  The Nicaraguan beans needed a 48-72 hour rest period for the flavor to fully develop, but there wasn't a huge difference in taste between 24 and 72 hours, just an improvement.

This latest batch of Costa Rican coffee has proven to me how important the rest period is after you roast the coffee.  24 hours after being roasted, I HATED the taste of the Costa Rican coffee.  I almost couldn't finish the first mug I made.  I made a note on my spreadsheet not to buy it again.  It was sour and off-tasting, very astringent, almost like sucking on a lemon, without the lemon flavor.  The aftertaste lasted for hours, and it was not pleasant.

By 48 hours the taste had improved and the sour astringency had decreased, but it was still present.

At 72 hours the coffee was significantly better, just a hint of sourness.

Then I hit 96 hours.  Wow.  The coffee tasted amazing.  No sourness at all.  Just great, smooth flavor.

If you roast your own coffee, definitely let it rest before you brew.  It can make a significant difference in taste.


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## browneyesvictim

This is real interesting Ray. I have never considered roasting my own coffee as worth the trouble or mess. I guess I thought there was a lot more sophisticated equipment required than a pan, wooden spoon and a strainer. This has definitely peaked my curiosity and I just might have to give it a try. I'm definitely a coffee lover as we have discussed before (except I don't miss the Navy coffee one bit!) I make my coffee in a French press during the work week. MUCH better than brewed coffee, and has led me to become a bit of a bean snob and cant tolerate "bad" coffee. I have a Moka pot, but find it is real inconvenient and only makes a small cup of joe. I need to fill my bubba mug before I go to work so 6-8 oz at a time doesn't work for me.

Now the Mrs. loves her coffee too, but she does the Cappuccinos and Latté's made with espresso shots. I cant tell you how many home espresso makers we have been trough over the last several years! Most of them really are really an insult to espresso and not very convenient to use! This results in daily trips to the coffee hut down the road at $4 to $5 a whack! That is, until Christmas last year... Santa got her a Krupps Fully Automatic. Now THAT has been a game changer for enjoying good espresso and coffee. It wasn't cheap but way better than the Coffee Hut bill was!

The moral of this story is  that we have learned that WHAT you make your coffee in and HOW you make it, makes all the difference in the ability to enjoy and recognize good coffee. By the way, Dillanos and Lavazza are our go-to's lately for pre-roasted beans. So this bean roasting thing just might be worthwhile to give it a shot. Any recommendations on a green bean to start with that might be more forgiving?


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## noboundaries

Hey Erik, I do know what you mean about espresso makers.  I just stopped buying them.  My wife says I've used up enough countertop space with all my kitchen gadgets, so I make due with the pour over cones, a French press, and three moka pots (3, 6, and 9 cup).  The 9 cup makes a nice big mug of coffee, but I use it for company mostly. It is too much for me alone.  The 6 cup is what I like best in the morning if I'm not doing a pour-over, the 3 cup in the afternoon.

I know for a fact my wife got me a "Clever Dripper" for Christmas, one with a cover.  It combines the best of filtered pour over and the French press coffee.  $22 on Amazon.  It is a cone dripper than steeps the coffee like a French press.  When your 4 minutes have elapsed, you put the cone on your mug and it allows the coffee to flow thru.  I'll tell you how it works in a month and a half. There are YouTube videos of the Clever Dripper.

I've tried Dillanos and Lavazza.  Still prefer my own ground beans.  From what I've read, true espresso is an 80/20 mix of Arabica and Robusta beans, medium to medium-dark roast.   I can taste a Robusta bean from a mile away, so that's why I prefer my own grinds, and now my own roasts.

I have had to move away from black coffee the last several years.  I add coconut milk or frothed milk to my coffee.  Since you have an espresso machine, you have a frother.  I just put cold milk in a jar, shake it for 30 seconds or so, take the top off and microwave it for 12-15 seconds.  Works just like a milk frother. 

As far as a bean recommendation, I wish I had one.  Still too new roasting.  I'm loving this Costa Rican I ordered from Sweet Maria's.  Sipping some right now.  Sweet Maria's is nice because you can order coffee in 1 lb batches and try several different sources. 

The reason I bought the Nicaraguan in 3 lbs off Amazon was for learning to roast. It wasn't expensive and any failures wouldn't hurt, especially if I was only roasting 6-8 oz of green beans.  Just like BBQ though, the failures were still pretty dang good.  If it wasn't so acidic, I'd recommend it.  Some people like the acidic taste.  I used to, but my stomach can't handle it any longer.

I just took delivery of inexpensive, Mexican, organic green beans ordered off Amazon from Smokin' Beans Coffee Company.  5 lbs delivered was $27.85, or $5.57/lb.  It is actually cheaper from Amazon than it is on the Smokin' Beans Coffee Company website, and it is shipped from the same place!  Go figure.  I'm going to roast a batch today to try over the next several days.  I bought it for making Mexican Kahlua for Christmas gifts, and for personal consumption.  Will know in few days how good it is. 

Take the leap into home roasting, Erik.  But trust me, it adds a whole new meaning to the love of coffee.


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## browneyesvictim

Ok. Im convinced to try it. So I'm off to the Amazon for some Columbian beans (pun intended!)

Its odd that those Primos Nicaraguan beans are a best seller and so highly rated yet so not to your liking.



noboundaries said:


> there are some insanely expensive green coffees that command up to $350/lb.


Not up for some Kope Luwak?


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## noboundaries

No, don't get me wrong.  The Primos Nicaraguan was really good coffee.  Great flavor.  Ten years ago I would have been buying it again.  As I've grown older though, my stomach is more sensitive.  I loved drinking it, but didn't like what it did to my stomach. 

I have a Kopi Luwak story.  We had some lawyer friends for a while who knew of my love of coffee.  They were big coffee drinkers too, spending a small fortune each month at their local roaster buying coffee for themselves, home, and their office.  They were always bringing me roasted coffee beans from their travels and that local roaster.  They had a condo on the Big Island, and I'll admit, the Kona was good.  It didn't knock my socks off, but I really did enjoy it. 

Once, when we were visiting, they bought 4 oz of roasted Kopi Luwak beans. It was several years ago but I believe they paid $65 for that 4 oz bag of coffee beans.  They had me grind them and brew them so we could all share in the experience.  None of us were impressed.   

One more lesson I learned this afternoon from roasting the Organic Mexican beans.  The outside temp was in the upper 50s and the wind was blowing.  I had to run a higher flame setting on my side burner to complete the roast, which still took 18 minutes.  Don't follow my directions blindly.  Use your cooking instincts when roasting and what I've written as a general guide.


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## browneyesvictim

I think you are the first person that I know of that has tried those beans. LOL! I'm afraid I wouldn't ever feel compelled to do the same. Good for you nonetheless!

So the package of green beans came in yesterday from Amazon. I got a pound of Morning Hills Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, and an AromaCraft Colombia Supremo. I haven't had time to roast them yet since it was the Mrs. Birthday, and we had plans out all day. I did, however, break out the Moka pot and made her a "Special" brewed latte with it along with breakfast.
This one only makes 9 oz at a time, which is good for double espresso shots, and long coffees. Might have to consider a bigger one for me for my regular brewed. Just adding water Americano style just isn't the same to me.


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## tallbm

browneyesvictim said:


> I think you are the first person that I know of that has tried those beans. LOL! I'm afraid I wouldn't ever feel compelled to do the same. Good for you nonetheless!
> 
> So the package of green beans came in yesterday from Amazon. I got a pound of Morning Hills Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, and an AromaCraft Colombia Supremo. I haven't had time to roast them yet since it was the Mrs. Birthday, and we had plans out all day. I did, however, break out the Moka pot and made her a "Special" brewed latte with it along with breakfast.
> This one only makes 9 oz at a time, which is good for double espresso shots, and long coffees. Might have to consider a bigger one for me for my regular brewed. Just adding water Americano style just isn't the same to me.



Ooooh I'm in to hear how the Ethiopian Yirgs turn out.  Mine are going to be delivered today.  My hope is that I can roast them and get plenty of fruit-like flavors out of them.  I plan to roast these to like 425-428F and give them as a gift to someone who loves flavored coffee, especially fruit flavors in the coffee.


----------



## tallbm

Ok guys I could use a little advice.  I have my 2 pounds of Green Natrual (dry) processed Ethiopian Yirgs.
I plan to roast them to 425-428F on Wed Dec 20th. so they have a 96 hour bloom/rest period ending on Dec 24th.  I plan to grind them the evening of Dec 24th to give as a gift on Dec 25th (Christmas day) where I am sure they will be immediately brewed through a standard coffee pot.

Do you see any issue with this timeline or anything that I should take into consideration that may alter my timeline?
I'm all ears to ensure I get this done in time and in secret for max flavor.  Also I will vac seal the grinds.

Thanks!!!


----------



## noboundaries

Sounds like a great plan.  Timeline is fine. 

Just be sure to grind to a drip grind, not finer.  Freshly roasted beans "bloom" more than the dead stuff from the store. The bloom is the gas they release during extraction. The finer the grind, the greater the bloom, which can over-flow the basket if ground too fine.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Sounds like a great plan.  Timeline is fine.
> 
> Just be sure to grind to a drip grind, not finer.  Freshly roasted beans "bloom" more than the dead stuff from the store. The bloom is the gas they release during extraction. The finer the grind, the greater the bloom, which can over-flow the basket if ground too fine.



Thanks for the input.  I'll review the drip grind consistency/texture that way I get it right.  I'll be using the magic bullet with the grind blade.


----------



## browneyesvictim

I got a shot at roasting some beans. Since I had a 4-day holiday weekend coming up and having guests over to share the brew with, this was good timing as any. It has been over a week now from roast to cup, so here it goes...

As I mentioned earlier, I bought 2 varieties of green beans to roast: Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Columbian Supremo. I got a pound of each to start with. I chose them is because I have tried them both before, so I know what flavor notes I should be working with. I'm glad I did! Otherwise going into this completely blind and would be nearly pointless except for discovering a new flavor of coffee. This isn't a bad thing of course, but the intent here is to follow the roasting process from fresh through the different stages through the bloom.

I roasted half of each of them on November 20th. I followed noboundaries process as exactly as I could using the same pan, propane burner, IR temp gun, etc... I took them both to 428*, except I took the Yirg (stopped roasting) just a bit into the second crack stage, whereas I let the Columbian finish through the second crack. I started the Columbian at a slightly higher burner temperature at first, but lowered the flame to keep the temperature down as close to 428* as possible through to the end. Both roasts were complete within about 15 minutes. But I didn't actually time it either, as I was more going by the cracking stages and temperature. Then into the colander to cool, then into an open quart ziplock baggie. I don't know if what I did is genuine to call them "Full City Roast" or "French Roast", but that is what I am calling them... But as you can see I left the Yirg a tad lighter roast than the Columbian.




















Now, as for taste... I have been brewing a little of each every morning since Wednesday the 22nd. Both of them are really good and I can clearly distinguish their individual character. At first, I would say I wasn't really that impressed over anything I have had store-bought. Then as a few days have gone by the favors have much improved! Much more mellowed out and yummy and less sour. Today... sitting here now as I type, sipping on the yirg... Such a smooth and velvety mouth feel! The Columbian tastes like... well really rich COFFEE. Carmel, chocolate, earthy. Like Juan Valdez himself just handed me a cup of joe while I am wearing a sombrero and riding a burro down from the mountain with him.

Thank you again Ray for sharing! Yet again another new thing I can blame you for getting me into trying!


----------



## tallbm

browneyesvictim said:


> I got a shot at roasting some beans. Since I had a 4-day holiday weekend coming up and having guests over to share the brew with, this was good timing as any. It has been over a week now from roast to cup, so here it goes...
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, I bought 2 varieties of green beans to roast: Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Columbian Supremo. I got a pound of each to start with. I chose them is because I have tried them both before, so I know what flavor notes I should be working with. I'm glad I did! Otherwise going into this completely blind and would be nearly pointless except for discovering a new flavor of coffee. This isn't a bad thing of course, but the intent here is to follow the roasting process from fresh through the different stages through the bloom.
> 
> I roasted half of each of them on November 20th. I followed noboundaries process as exactly as I could using the same pan, propane burner, IR temp gun, etc... I took them both to 428*, except I took the Yirg (stopped roasting) just a bit into the second crack stage, whereas I let the Columbian finish through the second crack. I started the Columbian at a slightly higher burner temperature at first, but lowered the flame to keep the temperature down as close to 428* as possible through to the end. Both roasts were complete within about 15 minutes. But I didn't actually time it either, as I was more going by the cracking stages and temperature. Then into the colander to cool, then into an open quart ziplock baggie. I don't know if what I did is genuine to call them "Full City Roast" or "French Roast", but that is what I am calling them... But as you can see I left the Yirg a tad lighter roast than the Columbian.
> 
> Now, as for taste... I have been brewing a little of each every morning since Wednesday the 22nd. Both of them are really good and I can clearly distinguish their individual character. At first, I would say I wasn't really that impressed over anything I have had store-bought. Then as a few days have gone by the favors have much improved! Much more mellowed out and yummy and less sour. Today... sitting here now as I type, sipping on the yirg... Such a smooth and velvety mouth feel! The Columbian tastes like... well really rich COFFEE. Carmel, chocolate, earthy. Like Juan Valdez himself just handed me a cup of joe while I am wearing a sombrero and riding a burro down from the mountain with him.
> 
> Thank you again Ray for sharing! Yet again another new thing I can blame you for getting me into trying!



Great post!
Did your Yirgs have any "fruity" type flavors?
Also how many days of blooming gave you the best flavor on those Yirgs?


----------



## browneyesvictim

tallbm said:


> Great post!
> Did your Yirgs have any "fruity" type flavors?
> Also how many days of blooming gave you the best flavor on those Yirgs?



Im not the greatest at describing flavors, but I wouldn't exactly call the flavor "fruity" by my description, but to somebody else maybe so... however, there is a distinct flavor or character of them that I cant describe well other than to say "musky". Pleasant though- something like what you smell when opening a very old book. 
As I understand it though, that "fruity" profile is a difference that would come from dry processing vs wet processing of the beans. Which of course I must also try now. These were wet processed that I just got.

As for your second question- so far, todays brew was the best of the Yirg. So to me it is still getting better.


----------



## noboundaries

Erik, glad you gave it a try!  I don't taste any of my coffee now until it has rested 96 hours (4 days).  The difference in taste from 24 to 96 hours can be amazing. 

I've tried four coffees now; Nicaraguan, Costa Rican, Mexican Organic, and Guatemalan, all Central American coffees.  The Costa Rican is at the top of my short list for richness, mouth-feel, and flavor. The Guatemalan is a close second and right behind that is the Mexican Organic.  I would buy any of those three again.  I don't taste floral, more like chocolate, toffee, and brown sugar.


----------



## bluewhisper

I visited a guy who roasted his own coffee, in bigger batches that you guys are describing. He had a bean cooling rig which was a clean 5-gallon bucket with a lid. He had drilled a LOT of holes in the bottom, and a larger hole in the lid so he could connect a shop vac to suck air through the whole thing.


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## tallbm

Thanks for the input guys.  That all helps :)


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## noboundaries

One of the few things I find annoying about grinding my own coffee with an electric burr grinder is the static electricity generated when beans are ground.  Grinds will fly everyplace, causing waste and a cleanup. 

I saw a YouTube video that says to place a few drops of water down the sides of your grinder's whole bean bin and there will be no more static electricity.  It works!  I can get about three static-free grinds before I need to do it again.  Give it a try if you too get static electricity.


----------



## tallbm

Will note that.  My cousin just bought an electric grinder and wants to be a part of my little coffee bean adventure so he can do it himself.  I'm sure this tip will come in handy for him :)


----------



## bluewhisper

At one middle eastern store around here, they'll grind coffee that has some roasted cardamom pods mixed in. It makes a really distinctive aroma and flavor.


----------



## tallbm

There is a place in Ingram, TX (central TX) that grinds fresh Pecan in their grind and people rave about it.
I wonder how long fresh Pecan would hold up in a coffee grind before it went bad.

The girl at the counter of the little coffee shop said "fresh Pecan" so who knows if it is or some kind of preserved pecan like the stuff in the bags of the bakery store aisle.


----------



## browneyesvictim

I know some will add a few drops of bar bitters to their grind and that comes in many flavors.
Chickory is another brew alternative I have always been curious to try.


----------



## noboundaries

Wow, I have never thought of adding something to the grind, like cardamom or pecan.  Now my head's spinning with ideas to research.

I have had brewed chicory a LOOOOONG time ago.  My dad drank only coffee, all day and into the evening.  I think my mom was trying to wean him off coffee so she bought roasted chicory.  I remember I was not a fan back then.  It tasted so different from coffee I couldn't make the mental connection to enjoy it.  Might be worth another taste though.


----------



## tallbm

Duplicate post, deleting this content.


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## tallbm

Ok guys I was able to do my first test run of roasting my 100% Ethiopian Yirgs (Natural/Dry processed).

The images show the beans being a way lighter color than what the naked eye sees, so just know they aren't that light looking in reality.








*Equipment*:  I used a $10 Imusa electrical burner/hotplate, wooden spoon, teflon pan, colander, a $11 IR Temp Gunand a little fan to cool.

*Beans:* green Natural/Dry processed 100% Ethiopian Yirgs

*Roast:* Shot for 428F but not exactly sure where I ended up.  Readings were anywhere between 390F and 410F.  I thought I started seeing some Black beans so I stopped like @noboundries says he does.  Also the bean husks made things hard to determine bean color being light or darker, etc.  Will speak about the husks further down.

*Process:*

I followed @noboundries process in post#9 of this thread
 I heated my pan to 460F
I added beans and began mixing
At 3 min mark I turned burner down to Medium
I think this caused my burner to cut off completely due to heat safety mechanisms and the way it works :(

At 6 min mark I turned burner down to Low
I think this continued causing the burner to stay off due to heat safety mechanism and the way it works

I did not hear first pops at 10 min mark so I turned the burner back to high
Started hearing 1st pops around 15 minutes in
Started hearing 2nd pops around 20 minutes in 
I continued stirring and taking temp measures but the temp measures were kind of all over the place.
I think temp measures were being sabotaged by the bean husks being shed
I pulled beans when I thought I started seeing some black beans, though it was hard to tell colors due to the light husks being mixed in with the beans so I just pulled.  Temp measure highs were 390F to 410F
I immediately put the beans in a colander and stirred in front of a fan
The fan was blowing bean husks out everywhere while cooling the beans off
I then kept pouring the beans into the pan and back into the colander allowing the beans to fall in front of the fan and having the fan blow the husks away as the beans fell
I put the beans in a ziplock bag and gave them to my cousin who was assisting me.  He will grind some at the 72 hour mark, drink, and note the flavor.  He will do the same thing at 96 hours.
With is input and what I have now learned, I will do my next round as a gift for Christmas

*Lessons Learned:*

My burner is much more finicky than a gas burner on a grill lol
I will likely need to leave my burner on high and just lift the pan off to manage not overheating
I did not anticipate there being bean husks in the mix and this was interesting and unexpected to deal with
The bean husks do not change color of absorb heat ANYTHING like the beans do
This makes it hard to judge bean color with the lighter husks being mixed in
This makes it hard to take IR gun temps with bean husks being lower temp than the beans

I think next time I will let the bean husks come off and then I will sift/separate the beans and husks.  When I have nothing but beans left I will start the roast again so I can more easily take temps and judge bean color
These beans had a very chocolate type smell while green and while roasting in the pan.  This was enjoyable as I like chocolate but I don't enjoy coffee as I never developed the palate for it and if I have any caffeine in my diet I will NOT be able to sleep.  I found this out a looooong time ago so I just cut it out all together.

Ok guys this is what I have.  This was very fun and interesting.  I think the next go round will be much better and I look forward to any feedback you may have.  Thanks!


----------



## noboundaries

Looks great!  Glad you did a test run to figure out your heat source.  Good to know too.  I just gave one of those Imusa hot plates to my son-in-law so he could use an aluminum moka pot I gave him.  They have an induction stovetop and it won't work with aluminum.  I figure once he tastes the difference between Costco coffee and fresh roasted, he'll start roasting his own too.

As far as the husks, my apologies.  In my directions I forgot to add that I blow the husks out every couple of minutes once they appear.  Just blow on them like blowing out a candle.  In a shallow pan they blow away from your face.  In my deeper pan about half blow up in my face.  Somewhere in the middle of the first crack it really doesn't help to blow the husks away any more.  They break down into smaller pieces, but turn black from the heat so they won't mess with your ability to see the color change as the beans roast.  The chaff still blows everywhere when you cool them with a fan at the end of the roast, but hey, it comes right off with a brush of the hand. 

Looking forward to the taste results.


----------



## tallbm

Thanks for the feedback on the husks.  I will be sure to do that.  I think things will get smoother on the next go round as I blow out the husks.

I'll report back on the next batch.


----------



## noboundaries

I had an interesting experience yesterday pan roasting 8.3 oz of green Brazilian Dry Process Serrinha coffee beans I bought from Sweet Maria's coffee.  They don't carry them anymore, and I haven't tasted them yet (3 more days of rest), but the roast of the beans just goes to prove that not all beans are the same. 

My roasting process is practically automatic now, as described in earlier posts.  Yesterday, when roasting the Brazilian beans, they turned from green to a very uniform light yellow in just a couple of minutes.  None of the other beans I've roasted have done that.  The others, all from Central America, turned from green to a tan color before growing darker. 

My favorite final roast profile is what I'm calling a mix of Full City + and light French, also knows as a Vienna roast.  Just about all the beans I've roasted taste best "to me" at that roast level.  Brazilian beans below

Happy Roasting!

View media item 553422


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## tallbm

Cool info to hear about!
I'll be getting a report on tasting tomorrow and I'll be doing the next roast in exactly 1 week.  I'll report back my info and findings as well.  I'm excited! :D


----------



## tallbm

Ok so I am finally getting around to posting about my 2nd bean roasting experience.












I again roasted the 100% natrually processed Ethiopian Yirgs.
This time around I blew out the husks as I went along with the roast and that helped out a lot because I could now clearly see the colors and take better temp readings!

I roasted until the temp gun read 428F on the beans though it isn't exactly scientific but was by best effort reading.
Taking to 428F produced a much darker roast than last time but I stuck with it determined to hit my number lol.

I let the beans mellow in an open zip lock bag for almost about 84 hours then I had to grind up about 3/4 of a magic bullet mini cup's worth and put them in a smaller zip lock as the gift I would be giving the next mourning Christmas Day.

The coffee was very well received.  The comment I got was that the coffee tasted sweeter expected and that it was a very high quality bean/coffee.  This was a success!

The initial taster said the other day that he caught a hint of some citrus type flavors to the coffee so I am guessing their is some validity that these naturally processed (vs wet processed) 100% Ethiopian Yirgs do lend themselves towards sweet and/or fruity hints.

If you guys have any idea on whether roasting lighter or darker may bring out more of the sweet or fruit flavors I'm all ears!  :)


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## noboundaries

Congrats on the well received Christmas gift!  Very cool!  Great looking roasts above. 

I'm still too new to say much about how roasting the Ethiopian Yirgs lighter or darker would change the flavor.  I've read that lighter roasts bring out the bean characteristics more. 

I've been happy with the coffees I've roasted to the range that is Full City + to Vienna (in the same batch, the lighter beans are Full City+, the darker Vienna).  I like the flavor of caramelized sugar and chocolate, which that range seems to deliver beautifully.  428F is the minimum I roast now.  I actually pushed a batch of Mexican Organic to 435F, then a couple more batches to 444F.  That bean handled it nicely and tasted soooooo good without tasting burnt.    

The amount of coffee I roast also impacts the roast.  I've bumped up the amount I can pan roast from 8 oz to 10 oz of green beans.  I don't think I'm going to push it any higher.  Roasting more beans means I have to run the burner on high a little longer to stay within my 15 minute start to finish roast window for the Full City+ to Vienna roast.  

I've still got 2-3 lbs left from a 5 lb bag of Mexican Organic.  I have 8 oz of Brazilian, a pound of Rwandan, and a pound of Burundi.  My kids got me a gift card to Sweet Maria's for Christmas, so I'll be checking out the Ethiopian real soon. 

My wife got me a "Cleaver Dripper" for Christmas.  Look it up online for how it works.  It's like the best of "pour-over" coffee and French Press coffee combined.  The paper filter eliminates the grit of the finer grinds in a French press, and the stopper maximizes the extraction.  It is now my favorite way to make everyday coffee, with a moka espresso thrown in a couple times a week. 

Happy New Year everyone.


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## browneyesvictim

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

So, I have been on round #2 as well. In fact I have tried roasting 3 types of regional coffee now- the 2 I already posted about (above) was finished up, and I bought 2 lbs of Morning Hills Costa Rica La Rosa. As of this morning has been 4 days since roasting, so guess what I am sipping on right now?:D I like it ALOT! Very creamy mouthfeel... almost butter-like toffee/caramel flavor. I took this one a little higher temp too. More like 445-450* and completely through the second crack, and its not bitter at all. The idea was I am looking for a good bean for an espresso roast for the Mrs. in her fancy automatic coffee machine. This one will work! But Im not so sure I want to share...

This time I used a little bigger pot. My thinking was giving a little more surface area for a more even roasting. I am only roasting about 1/2 lb at a time so its not like I need the capacity, but though that might help with consistency and reducing temp swings. I am just using a turkey fryer propane burner. I don't have a good way of gauging the throttle of the gas valve to the burner. So I'm just going by the seat of my pants as far as burner temp, and the IR temp gun tells me when I want to pull the pot off the burner for a few moments or take it off completely when done. This is working but I wish I had a better and more accurate way of measuring and controlling burner temp than just eyeballing it.

Something else I noticed when doing 3 different beans back to back was noticing the size of the beans. The Columbian Supremos are SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the other two beans. I didnt notice this when they were green, but they seem to have easily over doubled in size from roasting. They also smell best of all three of them sitting there cooling just freshly roasted, and the strangest is how "hollow" they sound compared to the others. They sound like seashells rattling around! I am going to get some measurements of WEIGHT by VOLUME and start doing some comparisons.

Congrats on the new toy Ray. That's a pretty cool gadget. I have to admit I am using my moka pot more since you nudged me to give it another try. I think it does produce a better coffee but the French press is a bit more convenient.

<edit- fix typos>


----------



## noboundaries

Erik, like you, my favorite so far has been the Costa Rican.  Wow, so good.

I haven't tried Columbian yet.  I will be ordering more green coffee next week.  Will have to put Columbian on the list.

Folks at work used to call me "Mr. Spreadsheet."  I made spreadsheets for everything, and yes, I've got one for my coffee roasting too.  Below is a picture of 10 oz of Mexican Organic green beans, and the same 10 oz of roasted Mexican Organic beans, which typically expands in size (almost double) and reduces in weight 18-20% to 8 to 8.2 oz.  Now you can see why I'm doing 10 oz.  It fills up the storage jars I'm using!

I've also quit using milk, cream, or half n half with my morning coffee.  Thanks to one of my daughters I've started using canned coconut milk, shaken really well.  It gives the coffee an amazing taste without hiding any of the flavors.  It's no good for steaming, but I don't do that much anyway.

I put my French press away after one use of the Clever Dripper.  Besides the taste, cleanup is a BREEZE compared to the FP.  I'll still use the FP for cold brew coffee though.

Okay, I'm going to have to switch to Chrome to upload the pic of the green/roasted bean comparison.  Be right back.


----------



## tallbm

I did a bunch of reading yesterday on roasting and the affect to sweetness and flavor and such.

Sweet Maria's has the best library of info on such topics I have found online so far.
She did some experimenting with "stretching" the roast of coffee beans and how it affected a few factors such as body, sweetness, acidity, etc.

It was very interesting and full of detailed info on her results and some info on her approach.  It is a 3 part'er you can read all about it here:
Part 1 - https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/node/2934
Part 2 - https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/content/stretchin-out-roast-pt-2
Part 3 - https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/node/4726

She didn't summarize her findings but from what I read and can remember it seems that sweetness can be affected in a few different ways by targeting a sweetness type (malt, candy, fruit, etc.), acidity, and body/mouth feel to present the kind of flavors you want the drinker to have.

For example in her first stretching of the time between the end of the 1st crack and beginning of the 2nd crack she discovered that how the Acidity is perceived (front, middle, or back of the palate) affects body perception of the coffee as well as the type of sweetness (malt, candy, fruit, chocolate, etc.). So stretching the roast in this way a Roaster can affect the flavor profile by messing with the sweetness flavor and where the acidity is felt in the palate.

In the 2nd stretching she mentions that stretching out the 1st crack (time between beginning 1st crack sound to ending of the 1st crack sounds) didn't affect sweetness flavor but the body/mouth feel affected the delivery of the sweetness so it is expressed in a better manner.  She basically states that more body and syrupy texture makes for the sweetness hitting the tongue and mouth differently so you perceive it differently.

In the 3rd stretching of the drying phase she identifies that the toning down of the acidity while not killing the sweetness gives longer finishes to the sweetness.  This may greatly affect how a taster perceives the sweetnes.

It is all very interesting stuff.

When I look back on my last attempt I had a stretched all of her same phases inadvertently because of how my burner is working for me hahahaha.  I roasted my beans for a good 20+ minutes to hit my 428F mark.
It looks like I basically hit many if not all of her sweetness points which is funny because as the coffee was being drank there as a definite mention about the sweetness of it that was written off to maybe be a byproduct of the creamer hahaha

Anyhow enough of me rambling I just wanted to share all this super interesting info since we are all kind of discussing the same kind of points that Maria seems to be honing in on when roasting :)


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## noboundaries

That was GREAT info!  Will have to read further.


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## browneyesvictim

Since this thread started and I tried roasting coffee I've been  going on with my wife about all the subtle flavors and nuances I was getting- and more importantly how intensely FRESH it tasted. But she never understood. Now, keep in mind, she dumps a ton of flavored (White Mocha) creamer and a full cup of steamed milk in each coffee. So Sunday morning I was up before the Mrs. So I made 3 different 9oz coffees with the moka pot using each of the three fresh roasted single origin coffee beans. Each one fresh ground and measured out to perfection. I sat her down at the kitchen bar- still barely awake and with sand in her eyes- and had her try each one. First by nose, and then sipping and savoring as if it was a fine wine. And for the first time she was able to tell the difference from one coffee to the next! She particularly kept going back to the Ethiopian Yirg and commented on how "sweet" that particular one was. She said it was her favorite out of all of them. She made it clear she wasn't fond of the straight coffee, and I wasn't going to push my luck so I steamed her milk and measured out 3 TBS of creamer. But I considered the taste test a success! ...then I made us French toast and Canadian Bacon. :p

On work days, she leave the house before I do for her shift at the hospital. I rarely ever hear her getting ready or leave. But this morning, I woke up with to the smell of coffee. REALLY GOOD COFFEE! And I knew exactly what was going on!  When I got up a while later after she had gone and I was making my own coffee, all of the Costa Rican beans were in the hopper/grinder of her fully automatic machine. Needless to say I don't think we will be buying already roasted beans anymore.:rolleyes:


----------



## noboundaries

Great story Erik!  So good to know she could taste the difference. 

I just roasted my first batch of beans from the African continent, the beans from Burundi.  They have two more days before they'll be ready to grind.  Can't hardly wait.


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## tallbm

Man these stories are all exciting (in a nerdy way) hahaha.

I can't wait to hear more.  

I was telling people at work today about my coffee bean roasting adventures and how I enjoy what I've learned and the 2 roasts I've done so far.  They were laughing that I don't even drink coffee but enjoy the process of it and making quality coffee for people to enjoy :)


----------



## noboundaries

Might have to start drinking coffee TB! My dad got me started with a little sugar and cream.  Then I enjoyed black coffee for decades.  I've had to start using cream or coconut milk again to tame the acid, but it is still something I look forward to every day.  I like the flavor and stopped noticing the buzz long ago.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Might have to start drinking coffee TB! My dad got me started with a little sugar and cream.  Then I enjoyed black coffee for decades.  I've had to start using cream or coconut milk again to tame the acid, but it is still something I look forward to every day.  I like the flavor and stopped noticing the buzz long ago.



I like the idea of it.  The issue is how easily caffeine keeps me awake at night. 
If I have any caffeine like in sodas or coffee I cannot fall asleep :(
The only time I can get away with it is if it is like 5am and I'm driving for a 3-5 hours and at that point 1 iced tea will keep me awake with little issue hahaha.  Or if I am going out on a weekend day and getting hammered drunk then the alcohol kind of counters the caffeine effects even though I tend to stay up late anyhow when drinking.
Hell I have to sometimes watch eating chocolate in the evening or it might keep me awake.

The oddest thing about it all is that I don't even get jittery or antsy from the caffeine unless I do something like drink 3 jager bombs in a row lol.  I just can't fall asleep.  Had to cut out caffeine when I was a teenager.

On a positive note, I get 7 hours of sleep and I have zero issues staying awake or starting my day.  All without a need for a jump start or a boost :)


----------



## redheelerdog

I have been roasting my own coffee for a long time now. I use a modified bread maker and a heat gun in my shop, I use a window box fan to remove the chaff during roasting.

The bread maker is nice, it can do fairly large quantities: ~2lbs roasted.


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## noboundaries

Very cool, John!  Who needs a $1200-$4000 coffee roaster?  Good old heat available heat sources, plus something to move the green beans around, and something else to cool the beans and you're good to go.  I had to tell my family "NO COFFEE ROASTER" for Christmas.  I doubt they would have bought one anyway, but my dad never fails to surprise me.  He loves to shop online.  I dropped enough hints about Sweet Maria's that hopefully he got the message like my kids did.  He said no gifts for Christmas, but I'll need more green beans by the time my birthday rolls around.


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## noboundaries

Tallbm, you're like my wife, super sensitive to caffeine.  She can drink tea, but not coffee, and nothing caffeinated late in the day.  When she can't sleep because she didn't follow her own rules, eating a banana will do the trick and she can fall asleep.  Has something to do with the potassium.


----------



## tallbm

redheelerdog said:


> I have been roasting my own coffee for a long time now. I use a modified bread maker and a heat gun in my shop, I use a window box fan to remove the chaff during roasting.
> 
> The bread maker is nice, it can do fairly large quantities: ~2lbs roasted.



That's a cool setup!  
I don't know if I'll ever need to get that sophisticated by I definitely could use an upgraded burner for this.  It's no big deal though, I can get by and I'll likely only roast the beans when someone requests or the holidays come by.  



noboundaries said:


> Tallbm, you're like my wife, super sensitive to caffeine.  She can drink tea, but not coffee, and nothing caffeinated late in the day.  When she can't sleep because she didn't follow her own rules, eating a banana will do the trick and she can fall asleep.  Has something to do with the potassium.



I'll have to try the potassium thing if I end up eating too much chocolate some evening.  I think there are some multi-vitamins with plenty of potassium in my pantry.  
I tell you what.  I'll take caffeine sensitivity any day over some of the much more unfortunate afflictions that people out there get :)


----------



## noboundaries

Sipping on the Burundi (African) coffee roasted to darker Full City+ / Light Vienna after a 90 hour rest.  It rivals, and possibly exceeds, the Costa Rican for my favorite so far.  It is a tad more complex than the Costa Rican.  I'm bummed this mug is almost gone and I have to wait a few hours before I can have another (sensitive stomach).   

It also has a sweeter aroma in the jar than any coffee I've roasted so far.  My wife won't drink coffee, but she LOVES the smell of it.  I had her smell the jar of Mexican coffee I had previously roasted, then the jar of the Burundi.  Her eyes lit up with a whiff of the Burundi coffee.  She agreed it smelled significantly sweeter.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Sipping on the Burundi (African) coffee roasted to darker Full City+ / Light Vienna after a 90 hour rest.  It rivals, and possibly exceeds, the Costa Rican for my favorite so far.  It is a tad more complex than the Costa Rican.  I'm bummed this mug is almost gone and I have to wait a few hours before I can have another (sensitive stomach).
> 
> It also has a sweeter aroma in the jar than any coffee I've roasted so far.  My wife won't drink coffee, but she LOVES the smell of it.  I had her smell the jar of Mexican coffee I had previously roasted, then the jar of the Burundi.  Her eyes lit up with a whiff of the Burundi coffee.  She agreed it smelled significantly sweeter.



Does it taste any sweeter?  I like the idea of it smelling sweeter.  My ol'lady loves the sweet stuff so that is where I'm heading with all of this.  If so I will keep that in mind for the next batch of sweet beans :)


----------



## browneyesvictim

Very inventive redheelerdog! Did you come up with that on your own or did you follow an intractable or something? I have a Ronco rotisserie I am considering trying with a drum basket of coffee beans.


----------



## noboundaries

tallbm said:


> Does it taste any sweeter?  I like the idea of it smelling sweeter.  My ol'lady loves the sweet stuff so that is where I'm heading with all of this.  If so I will keep that in mind for the next batch of sweet beans :)



It might be sweeter at a slightly lighter roast level. It does have a toffee, chocolatey taste that hits me perfectly at my preferred darker roast level.  I haven't tried the Yirg yet, or even ordered it, as I'm just beginning my exploration of the African coffees.  Growing altitude seems to make the difference. The higher the altitude, the less oxygen available to the plant, and the longer it grows.  It is a more anaerobic growing process.  The Costa Rican was grown at 1750 meters (around 5800 feet).  The Burundi was grown at 2000 meters (just under 6600 feet).  Most of the African coffees I've looked at are grown at the higher elevations.  The other coffee's I've tried from Central and South America were grown at 1000-1650 meters (3300 to 5400 feet).  I can't say definitively that's the reason for the sweetness, but apparently it does make a difference.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> It might be sweeter at a slightly lighter roast level. It does have a toffee, chocolatey taste that hits me perfectly at my preferred darker roast level.  I haven't tried the Yirg yet, or even ordered it, as I'm just beginning my exploration of the African coffees.  Growing altitude seems to make the difference. The higher the altitude, the less oxygen available to the plant, and the longer it grows.  It is a more anaerobic growing process.  The Costa Rican was grown at 1750 meters (around 5800 feet).  The Burundi was grown at 2000 meters (just under 6600 feet).  Most of the African coffees I've looked at are grown at the higher elevations.  The other coffee's I've tried from Central and South America were grown at 1000-1650 meters (3300 to 5400 feet).  I can't say definitively that's the reason for the sweetness, but apparently it does make a difference.



Good to know.  Man we seem to learn something about this every day lol.


----------



## browneyesvictim

A few days ago I roasted the rest of the Costa Rican, so that was the last of the green beans I had. So I ordered more. Two more single origin green beans were delivered today: Brazil Adrano Volcano Coffee (heirloom coffee) And (Primos)Nicaragan.

<sigh> Its getting bad around here!


----------



## noboundaries

I ordered 2 more pounds of Costa Rican, and 2 lbs each of Kenyan and Ethiopian green coffees.  All from Sweet Maria's. 

The first time I ordered from them I had the coffee shipped USPS. Took more than a week to go less than 100 miles.  This time I had it shipped UPS.  Arrived MUCH more quickly and only cost pennies more. 

Kind of reminds me of buying charcoal; once you find a deal and start buying, it's hard to stop!


----------



## noboundaries

I read recently that one way to tell the difference between properly roasted, fresh roast coffee, and canned store bought, is to taste it after it has cooled.  Cold, fresh roasted coffee will not have changed in flavor, just heat.  I'm sipping on what's left of my afternoon coffee, one of my new favorites, a Rwandan roast.  Sure it's cold, but it still tastes so rich and delicious.  Man oh man, I'm hooked.


----------



## tallbm

Interesting.  I'll pass that info on and see what my tasters report :)


----------



## noboundaries

Sipping on my first roast of the Ethiopian (it is not Yirgacheffe). I took it to a roast temp of 431F, slightly lower temp, not quite as dark as some of the others I've done.  It is definitely a sweeter tasting coffee. My wife, who is not a coffee drinker, but loves the smell of fresh ground coffee, perked up the minute she walked in the kitchen after I finished the grind.  She said, "That smells wonderful, different than the other coffees." 

So far I've been impressed with all the African coffees, much more so than South and Central America. Costa Rican is the only exception. 

I haven't tried the Asian coffees yet. Sumatra and Papua New Guinea are on the top of my list to order and roast.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Sipping on my first roast of the Ethiopian (it is not Yirgacheffe). I took it to a roast temp of 431F, slightly lower temp, not quite as dark as some of the others I've done.  It is definitely a sweeter tasting coffee. My wife, who is not a coffee drinker, but loves the smell of fresh ground coffee, perked up the minute she walked in the kitchen after I finished the grind.  She said, "That smells wonderful, different than the other coffees."
> 
> So far I've been impressed with all the African coffees, much more so than South and Central America. Costa Rican is the only exception.
> 
> I haven't tried the Asian coffees yet. Sumatra and Papua New Guinea are on the top of my list to order and roast.



That's awesome to hear!

I finished roasting out the rest of the 2 pound bag of the Yirgs I bought.
I took on trying to roast a larger batch than before and I am told they came out good but they have a very very very slight touch of bitter to them on the finish.  
After that batch I then roasted the much smaller batch of what was left over and couldn't fit and that one is said to be sweet, smooth, and no hint of bitter.

The difference is that the larger batch took much longer to roast to hit the temps where the smaller one did not.
My initial batches were about 8 ounces and they are the middle ground between the large and small batch.

The lesson learned for my little setup is to do batches of no larger than 6-7 ounces of green beans at a time rather than trying to push 9-10+ ounces of green beans at a time.
With my little electric burner these smaller batches are much easier to manage.

I have already been told that when these batches run out that more will likely need to be roasted hahaha :D


----------



## browneyesvictim

Just finishing up the last of this 3lbs of Primos Nicaraguan. This has been a VERY good bean, but I do get a bit more acidic profile as you also reported Ray. I will roast the 1lb of Volcano beans I have tonight and report on it and its also time to order some more beans. So far I have only gone with ordering through Amazon, but I think this time I'm going to follow your lead on Sweet Marias.


----------



## noboundaries

I've been real happy with Sweet Maria's. You get a better deal per pound if you order more of the same coffee. In other words, 2 lbs of the one type of coffee costs less per pound than 1 pound of the same coffee; 5 lbs of one coffee costs less per pound than smaller amounts, etc.

The second batch of Costa Rican coffee I ordered from them was just as good as the first batch.  Consistency is a good thing.

I also noticed that there are fewer bad beans (or none) in the Sweet Maria's coffee than in the others I have ordered.  There haven't been too many in the other brands, but I have thrown beans away from them.  Not so with Sweet Maria's.   
I've cut back to just one brew a day (16 oz mug), with a rare second brew in the afternoon.  I'm now consistently roasting 10 oz of green coffee to 8.2 - 8.25 oz of roasted coffee.  That is lasting me 4 to 6 days, so I'm going through about 3-5 lbs a month of green coffee, more when we have company.  Planning for the 4 days rest before the first brew is all part of my system now.

I'll start buying in 5 lb bags now that I've narrowed down my favorites.  I look forward to my morning coffee now much like I do the meat that will come off my smoker.  It's all memorable and yummy!


----------



## redheelerdog

Agree, Sweet Marias is the best green bean supplier out there.

Tom has some interesting stories of his coffee buying travels too.

I just ordered 10lbs of their dry processed Peruvian FTO el Palto.  :)


----------



## noboundaries

redheelerdog said:


> Agree, Sweet Marias is the best green bean supplier out there.
> 
> Tom has some interesting stories of his coffee buying travels too.
> 
> I just ordered 10lbs of their dry processed Peruvian FTO el Palto.  :)



I had not looked at the Peruvian coffees.  After reading the Sweet Marias write ups, they are going on my list of "next" coffees to try.  Thanks for posting!


----------



## SonnyE

I tried it.
But the K-cup melted.
Maybe I got the temperature too high?


----------



## noboundaries

I roasted 10 oz of green Kenyan beans this morning from Sweet Maria's.  They get a pretty high rating. It was the second roast of this coffee.  I took the first roast, back on 1/30/18, too dark. The temp on my IR therm read 437F but the roast only took twelve and a half minutes.   I decided to go to a much lower final temp today. Roast only took 10 minutes, possibly a little less, to get to 431F.  Still, it exactly filled one of the coffee jars I use to store roasted beans.  Only lost 15.5% of the total weight.

I've made some minor changes to how I'm setting up my side burner and the beans are roasting faster (I'll post pics tomorrow. It's raining now).  I thought today the beans might have roasted too fast, so I looked up what a faster roast does to the taste of the roasted beans.  Turns out you get more of the fruity, sweet nature of the bean and less of the roast flavor with a faster roast.  Faster roasts can cause the bean to be more acidic, too.  We'll see.  I've got 4 more days to wait it out.  I rest everything for at least 96 hours before I taste it.  It might just be my preference, but I can taste a difference between a 72 hour rest and a 96 hour rest.  The grinds on each bean taste the same after the beans have rested 96 hours.  Before then there are noticeable changes in flavor.  

BTW, the Kenyan is good, but not one of my favorites after the first roast. That's why I tried changing the roast profile today.

I set aside the one's I'm not crazy about, then I roast them dark and grind them to use exclusively in my Moka pots. I cream and lightly sugar Moka coffee. The sugar hides the flavors I don't like.  When I brew with Drip, French press, or Melita Cone/Clever Dripper, I just add some cream (half and half or coconut milk actually), no sugar.  That way I can taste the flavors I like.


----------



## noboundaries

For a couple decades or more I was completely happy buying roasted, store-bought beans, grinding them myself, and making my coffee.  The ONE major point that sold me on roasting green beans at home was roasters saying store-bought coffee beans taste dead and flat because too much time has passed since the beans were roasted. Fresh roasted and ground beans taste alive and fresh.  Why?

When beans are roasted, the gas CO2 is produced and trapped in the bean. The gas contains flavor, but the longer it has been since the coffee was roasted, the more the bean degasses. Think of it like a soda pop. You open a 2 liter bottle of soda pop and don't drink it all.  Into the fridge it goes and two weeks later you decide you want some more. It still contains the flavor of the syrup in the soda pop, but doesn't taste any where near as lively as when you first opened it because the CO2 has degassed from the solution into the air from the first opening.  Fresh roasted coffee doesn't taste "fizzy," but it definitely tastes more "alive" than the store-bought beans.

Recently I've been using up some store-bought, Mexican Organic beans for a second cup of coffee with my lunch.  I got the idea of taking pics to compare the store bought to fresh home roasted.  The "liveliness" of the beans is apparent by the "bloom" of the coffee, which is the off-gassing of CO2 trapped in the bean from the roasting process. As stated above, that gas contains flavor.  When the ground coffee is exposed to hot water at the proper temperature, the grind releases the gas and the flavors contained within.

Below are the comparison pics of the store-bought and ground Mexican Organic beans to the recently roasted (2/13/18) Costa Rican beans.


Getting ready to brew some coffee with my Clever Dripper and 200F hot water.












First pour: merely wetting the coffee to start the "bloom" process.

Store bought Mexican Organic coffee beans. Note how the surface has some gas, but is relatively flat compared to the second picture.






Fresh roasted Costa Rican coffee, first pour. Note how the surface appears more rounded with more bubbles of CO2. 






Second pour: approximately 20-30 seconds after wetting the grounds, slowly pour water over the beans to the desired level.  In the first picture of the store-bought Mexican Organic, there is still some gas being released, but nothing like the second and third picture of the fresh roasted Costa Rican coffee. 

Store-bought Mexican Organic.






Fresh roasted Costa Rican coffee (following two pics)











Put the lid on the Clever Dripper, brew four minutes, drink and enjoy.

Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for the impact on Global Warming due to the release of CO2 greenhouse gas from making my daily morning and occasional afternoon coffee.   

Have a GREAT day!

Ray


----------



## tallbm

Great write up!

Also thanks for the note on the Kenyan beans.  I will put them further on the bottom or the list if different beans get requested for me to roast.


----------



## noboundaries

This may be my last post on this thread.  It is pic heavy and shows the whole prep, roasting, cooling, and resting process for those interested.

Before Christmas I picked up a 5 lb bag of Mexican green beans I ordered from Amazon for less than $6/lb.  This is NOT the store-bought Mexican Organic I showed above for the off-gassing comparison.  I was going to use home roasted Mexican to make gifts of Mexican Kahlua, but didn't really care for the taste on some samples I roasted, so I used a store-bought, pre-roasted Mexican Organic bean I knew would work for the gifts. 

The Mexican bean I roast makes great espresso though, acceptable cold brew, and really good  Mexican Irish Coffee (espresso, brown sugar, Irish whiskey, and whipped cream), although the other ingredients might make a slight influence on my taste buds. 

Below is this morning's roast of 10 oz of Mexican green beans. 

My original roasting set-up. Just a pan on the 12,000 BTU burner.







My second roasting set-up. I used one of the gas grill grates from my unused gas grill to try and more evenly spread out the heat.  It worked, but too well, extending my roast times.  Plus, I had to hold onto the pan handle the entire time.






I've settled on the roast set up below. I can just stir, take pics, whatever. My charcoal baskets and a brick make for a nice anchor.  I don't have to hold onto the pan at all.






Pan pre-heated on high heat to 450F+.  Ready to load the beans.






Green Mexican beans loaded. 






Start timer.






Stir continuously. Here are the beans at 1 minute. Any brown you see at this point is chaff on the bean:






Keep stirring. I use kind of an "S" pattern as I stir.  At 2 minutes, some beans are starting to scorch. I turn the heat down to "medium" when I see it happening.






Keep stirring. At 3 minutes the scorching wasn't slowing down, so I turned the heat to low. Notice how the beans are already changing color from light green to greenish-yellow.






Keep stirring. At 4 minutes the color change is quite noticeable. 






Keep stirring. At 5 minutes, the beans are well on their way to being roasted.  You'll be getting some smoke, and chaff starts to flake off the beans. 






Okay, SWMBO is sending me on an errand.  I'll be back in a little while to finish the thread in another post.


----------



## noboundaries

Keep stirring: At 6 minutes, give or take a minute, you'll start hearing the "pop" of "first crack." Depending on the moisture content of the beans, you may even see a bean or two jump across the pan when it cracks.






Keep stirring: At 7 minutes, you start to really notice chaff as first crack continues. At this point I step out of the smoke, take a deep breath, and blow into the pan.  Chaff goes EVERYWHERE!  But it's kind of fun.






Keep stirring: At 8 minutes, there's usually all kinds of popping. Beans from different countries will roast differently. Some roast faster, like the African beans. This Mexican roasts a slower.






Keep stirring until the desired roast temp is reached: 9, 10, 11, and 12 minutes are shown below. Then the smoke at 12 minutes, which is pretty much what it looks like from about 6 minutes until you're finished. 

9 minutes:






10 minutes:






11 minutes:






12 minutes, and 12 minute smoke: Usually at this point you are into the "second crack." It sounds like Rice Krispies.











13 minutes and Temp check. I'm into my 20-something roasts, so I'm getting to the point I can visually tell when I am at my desired level.  I knew this wasn't ready, but I wanted to show how fast things progress toward the end.











14 minutes, and temp check indicating I had reached my target of 425-430F bean temp.











Time to dump the beans into a colander and then put them over a $15 Wally World fan to stir, de-chaff, and cool. Chaff goes EVERYWHERE from the fan, so stand downwind. They only take about 2-3 minutes to reach ambient temp.





















Now the beans are cool. Time to brush off the chaff, take inside, and prep them to rest.






A rolled-up half-sheet paper towel makes a quick and easy funnel. I zero out my scale then dump the beans into a clean jar. Remove the funnel and check the weight of the beans. 10 oz green became 8.2 oz roasted. Right on my target of 8.2 to 8.25 oz.  











I don't have a pic, but I put a piece of masking tape on the top.  Write the type of bean, roast date, and final weight in percentage. For this roast the label reads, "Mexican. 2/25/18. 82%." I loosely put the lid on the jar and let it sit for 24 hours.  It off-gasses during that time. Then I seal the jar and wait until 96 hours have passed, grind 40 grams, and make a 16 oz mug of coffee.

CYA!

Ray


----------



## noboundaries

Since posting the above pics I have experimented with my roasting process by putting the beans in the pot when the pot temp is 380-400F, then roasting more quickly (10-11 minutes) to a final temp of 425F. I've done four roasts since 2/25, and tasted three (one is still resting).

The beans are maintaining more weight (83.5% to 85% of green weight) and definitely tasting different than the previous 12-15 minute process I was using. They are more complex tasting, meaning they are maintaining more of the character of the bean.  I'm seeing MUCH less (or no) oil on the glass of my jars used to hold the roasted beans.  In one of my earlier posts I said I wasn't crazy about the Kenya beans.  Scratch that. With this change in process, they taste fantastic! I've put them back on the reorder table.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Since posting the above pics I have experimented with my roasting process by putting the beans in the pot when the pot temp is 380-400F, then roasting more quickly (10-11 minutes) to a final temp of 425F. I've done four roasts since 2/25, and tasted three (one is still resting).
> 
> The beans are maintaining more weight (83.5% to 85% of green weight) and definitely tasting different than the previous 12-15 minute process I was using. They are more complex tasting, meaning they are maintaining more of the character of the bean.  I'm seeing MUCH less (or no) oil on the glass of my jars used to hold the roasted beans.  In one of my earlier posts I said I wasn't crazy about the Kenya beans.  Scratch that. With this change in process, they taste fantastic! I've put them back on the reorder table.



Interesting.  I need  change my setup so I have more control over roasting but I only have my crappy little electric burner lol.  I was really eyeballing the Kaldi Mini Coffee Roaster and getting a propane burner for it.  I just can't justify the cost though since I don't even drink the coffee I'm roasting hahaha.
It is still fun to roast it and everyone loves what I'm making with my little gimpy setup :)


----------



## noboundaries

My wife and I have learned that if you see something you want at Costco, especially if they normally don't carry it, buy it then or it may not be available later.  Turns out buying coffee from Sweet Maria's is kind of the same thing.  Two days ago I made a list of coffees I want to buy.  Today, when I was ready to order some more green coffee, two of the ones on the top of my list were not available: a Costa Rica Helsar and an Ethiopian Yirga Cheffe.  I guess with them, if you snooze you lose.  Lesson learned!


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> My wife and I have learned that if you see something you want at Costco, especially if they normally don't carry it, buy it then or it may not be available later.  Turns out buying coffee from Sweet Maria's is kind of the same thing.  Two days ago I made a list of coffees I want to buy.  Today, when I was ready to order some more green coffee, two of the ones on the top of my list were not available: a Costa Rica Helsar and an Ethiopian Yirga Cheffe.  I guess with them, if you snooze you lose.  Lesson learned!



Yeah I hear ya and it sucks :(
I tried finding Mexican Vanilla beans to try and make some vanilla like in your other thread and man there seem to be none to be had in the world lol


----------



## noboundaries

tallbm said:


> Yeah I hear ya and it sucks :(
> I tried finding Mexican Vanilla beans to try and make some vanilla like in your other thread and man there seem to be none to be had in the world lol



And I hear you! Poor harvest in 2016, a vanilla blight in certain parts of the world, farmers cutting back on their harvest due to a glut, plus higher demand have driven up the prices of vanilla beans.

If I see the price of green coffee beans increasing, I'll buy 50 lbs, enough to last me two years.


----------



## browneyesvictim

Ray... This coffee roasting has become a thing for us now. I'm embarrassed to say how much I have spent at Sweet Marias in the last couple of months. Lets just say I am really enjoying their Sample packs to try all different kinds.  What surprised me the most is their house "blends", which are at the top of my list so far.

Oh... and I am now able to roast 1lb of green beans at a wack now too!


----------



## noboundaries

I hear you, Erik. I've been under the weather for the last few days, but dragged myself off the couch today to roast some Rwandan coffee. I was getting low on roasted beans and needed to roast another batch so they could rest properly.

I'll definitely have to try Sweet Maria's house blends. It would be interesting to know if they are just blending up the remnants of beans, or using their superior skills and taste buds to find just the right blend. 

I've tried some Sumatra from them. Not one of my favorites.

I've added a small hair dryer to my roasting process. I'll use it to blow away the chaff while roasting, turning it on three or four times during the roast. Works GREAT!


----------



## Kade

Very cool


----------



## browneyesvictim

noboundaries said:


> I've added a small hair dryer to my roasting process. I'll use it to blow away the chaff while roasting, turning it on three or four times during the roast. Works GREAT!



Ditto! I use a heat gun, but a hair dryer would work also. I started out with a smaller pot/pan and would blow out the chaff while I roasted. Now I use a bigger pot (and more beans) and blow out all the chaff AFTER it is roasted out in the yard with the heat gun. Way less mess.

The sample packs generally have the last bit of odd quantities of their beans. Some are blends, some are not. They also have "tail ends" you can order specifically that are NOT blends. The one particular blend that stood out for me was called something like Espresso Blend Workshop #2. But it's not listed on their stocked merchant pages now so I presume that was the last of it. Judging by the name of it, I'm guessing there is some in-house "workshop" engineering going into the blends vs just some random floor sweepings. The workshop #43 is next on my try list to try. Sounds delicious and perfect.


----------



## tallbm

Hey guys any input on the use of one of these coffee roasting devices?  They go over an open flame burner.

I was thinking of grabbing one so I could get more consistent.  I would replace the analog thermometer with a digital electric one, it's just held in place by an arm and can be swapped easily.  The 1st pic doesn't show it but the thermometer goes in the hole in the end to measure temp.  It does not sit where it is located in the pic, they just moved it out of the way.

Kaldi Mini (electric but they make hand crank ones too) below:






Kaldi Home Roaster - electric motor but they make hand crank ones too, also goes over a flame burner but has more bells and whistles, below:


----------



## browneyesvictim

I have been looking at those. Very interesting and shiny for sure. But even for that price I think I will keep doing what I am doing. If I get around to it, I want to try making a roasting drum out of the rib rack in my Showtime rotisserie. I'm even thinking I can make something similar to the Cajun Bandit rotisserie with my mini WSM upper over my propane burner with a cordless drill or old window regulator motor. Same concept as the Kaldi.


----------



## tallbm

browneyesvictim said:


> I have been looking at those. Very interesting and shiny for sure. But even for that price I think I will keep doing what I am doing. If I get around to it, I want to try making a roasting drum out of the rib rack in my Showtime rotisserie. I'm even thinking I can make something similar to the Cajun Bandit rotisserie with my mini WSM upper over my propane burner with a cordless drill or old window regulator motor. Same concept as the Kaldi.



Have you checked out RK Drums for potential parts and such?
https://www.rkdrums.com/

They seemed to be put together quite a bit better then some of the youtube homemade stuff :)


----------



## browneyesvictim

One more huge piece of the puzzle came together for me recently.  I learned A long time ago how to store beans and grind them right before brewing, but I have always used a blade mill type of grinder. I found out how important it is to get the grind right for the type of brewing method as well as measuring by weight- not volume. Mrs. BEV's fully automatic has its own conical burr grinder and measuring system built in, so I am the only one that uses the blade mill now for my French Press coffee.  Getting the grind right with a blade mill is not optimal. Either I get black sludge in the bottom of my cup from too fine of grinds or the grinds are too large and there are larger bits of beans that don't extract well. In-between and there is some of both!  So I just splurged on an OXO conical bur grinder with integrated scale. I had a coupon saved plus it was a sale so I got a pretty deep discount.

Let me tell you something... What an improvement! With the combination of good beans, home roasting, precise measuring, brewing methods/temperatures, and now precision grinding- each has made a noticeable improvement in my coffee game!


----------



## tallbm

browneyesvictim said:


> One more huge piece of the puzzle came together for me recently.  I learned A long time ago how to store beans and grind them right before brewing, but I have always used a blade mill type of grinder. I found out how important it is to get the grind right for the type of brewing method as well as measuring by weight- not volume. Mrs. BEV's fully automatic has its own conical burr grinder and measuring system built in, so I am the only one that uses the blade mill now for my French Press coffee.  Getting the grind right with a blade mill is not optimal. Either I get black sludge in the bottom of my cup from too fine of grinds or the grinds are too large and there are larger bits of beans that don't extract well. In-between and there is some of both!  So I just splurged on an OXO conical bur grinder with integrated scale. I had a coupon saved plus it was a sale so I got a pretty deep discount.
> 
> Let me tell you something... What an improvement! With the combination of good beans, home roasting, precise measuring, brewing methods/temperatures, and now precision grinding- each has made a noticeable improvement in my coffee game!



Hahahaha, I'll never be able to keep up :P

That sounds awesome!  I love all the info you are providing.  Right now I just grind with the Magic Bullet grinder blade.
Next item on the fringe is maybe one of those Kaldi home roasters.  After that maybe I would graduate to precise measures and grinding as I totally see the value of precision and accuracy, hence me going full blown HeaterMeter controller on my MES :)


----------



## noboundaries

I received a Cuisinart Burr Coffee grinder maybe twenty years ago as a birthday gift. I still use it every day. I clean it regularly, but it just keeps going and going and going. Most French Press guides say to use 1.6 to 2 grams of coffee per ounce of water. I use a bit more ground coffee than most folks like in my Clever Dripper or French Press (20 grams/8 ounces water, or 2.5 g/ounce of water), but each morning is like a kiss from the coffee gods.

I just finished pan roasting 13 ounces of Sweet Maria's Burundi green coffee. It is resting as I type. I can still smell the smoke on me as I sit here typing. That smoke is so friggin' sweet and addicting. It's too late in the day for one of my 16 oz morning mugs, but I just might have to fire up my little 3 cup Moka pot for 6 oz of espresso made with Rwandan coffee, then mixed with sweetened condensed milk, to power through the afternoon.


----------



## browneyesvictim

You make a good point Ray. I am seeing conflicting use of the word "cup" in how many ounces that means. There are 8 oz to a Cup. But in the coffee world I'm finding out that could be 6, 5 or 4. But who drinks only 4 or even 6 oz cup of coffee? And there is a difference by dry weight vs volume (scoops, TBS, etc) of the grinds.

My French press holds 32 Oz. But I only drink that much on the weekends, so I would make a 24oz on workdays for my travel mug with 3-1/2 to 4 scoops to 24 oz of water. But now I am going by weight and a with  consistent coarse grind this changes. With the scale I can measure out in Grams, or by "Cups". Still dialing it all in but so far WAY better flavors!


----------



## noboundaries

The learning process continues.

When you buy roasted beans in the store, they'll say things like "Kenyan Coffee, Ethiopian Coffee, Mexican French Roast, etc." I made the typical consumer mistake of assuming all coffees from Kenya, Ethiopia, Mexico, whatever, are the same. I've now come to realize that is the same mistake as saying all Scotch whiskies are the same, or all red wines, or all beers. Every coffee farm, cooperative mill, and region in a single country can produce noticeably different green coffee beans due to soil, climate, elevation, milling processes, and storage. Then the roasting process can make a huge difference. I've found that I get different flavors when I pan roast 8 oz of green beans compared to 10 oz, or 12, or 13.

When I come across a green bean I don't care for when roasted, I'll make coffee with the roasted beans, then set the green beans aside for future use. Once I finish roasting other beans I like, I start experimenting with the stuff I don't like.

First lesson: don't roast two different beans in the same pot, say a Sumatran and a Mexican. Roast them separately, then mix. There can be visually apparent differences in the size of roasted beans, which mean they'll roast at different rates. Beans grown at higher elevations are noticeably smaller than beans grown at lower elevations. I've had much better results roasting them separately, then mixing them, than roasting them together.

Second lesson: try to be as consistent as possible with your roasting profile. I remember reading somewhere that learning to roast coffee is a long process. When I first started pan roasting on my gasser, I thought, "Huh, this is pretty easy. I'll get this nailed in no time." And I did, to a point. Then you develop your palate, noticing little flavors you completely missed previously. 

I love pan roasting, but now I'm interested in making a drum and using my rotisserie to roast coffee. I still have no interest in buying a coffee roaster, but that may change with time as the learning process continues.


----------



## noboundaries

And more lessons.

I started experimenting with the grind level and extraction times (how long it steeps) of the green coffees I didn't care for. Grinding the roasted beans to a coarser grind and shortening the extraction time by almost 50% definitely improved the flavor in my Clever Dripper and French Press. Still not crazy about them, but a noticeable improvement.


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## noboundaries

More lessons: Two Burundi coffees from two different processers or cooperatives can taste quite different. I just ordered one of my favorite Costa Rican coffees from this year's crop. Will be interesting to see if it tastes as good last last year's crop from the same grower.

I really didn't care for the aftertaste of a Mexican/Burundi blend, both beans I didn't care for. This morning I added a couple of pinches of kosher salt to my cone filter before adding the freshly ground, roasted beans. The salt didn't change the flavor of the coffee, but took away about 80% of the aftertaste. I guess that's an old trick used by restaurants to smooth out coffee. It works.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> More lessons: Two Burundi coffees from two different processers or cooperatives can taste quite different. I just ordered one of my favorite Costa Rican coffees from this year's crop. Will be interesting to see if it tastes as good last last year's crop from the same grower.
> 
> I really didn't care for the aftertaste of a Mexican/Burundi blend, both beans I didn't care for. This morning I added a couple of pinches of kosher salt to my cone filter before adding the freshly ground, roasted beans. The salt didn't change the flavor of the coffee, but took away about 80% of the aftertaste. I guess that's an old trick used by restaurants to smooth out coffee. It works.



Interesting, I will try that with my girlfriend's coffee.  She says sometimes the beans I roast can have a little bit of a bitter taste (I think it is just coffee in general).  Next time I make her a cup I will do that and see if she tastes the little bit of a bitter taste at the end.
She likes those flavored coffees and such so I'm guessing her pallet isn't always suited for stronger or different coffees though she has really loved what I have been roasting for her :)


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## browneyesvictim

Hmmm.. Salt huh? Worth a try with the "less than stellar" roasts. Just placed another order.. 2 lbs each. Excited to try the Gesha the most!

GCX-5747-002 Guatemala Proyecto Xinabajul Wilmar Castillo 1
GCX-5707-002 Guatemala Volcan Acatenango Gesha Longberry 1
GCX-5601-002 Brazil Dry Process Sitio Pinheirinho 1
GCX-2933-002 Z - Sweet Maria's New Classic Espresso 1
GCX-5719-002 Burundi Kayanza Kibingo Station Lot #2


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## tallbm

Ooooh by the way guys, I got a new (used off craigslist lol) propane grill with a side burner JUST so I could roast coffee!
I figured I would share that news.  Maybe in a week or two once I get passed being swamped I will be ready to do a roast as well as get back to smoking some food :)


----------



## noboundaries

Wow, Erik, that Gesha is pricy stuff! Now out of stock. I wonder if the volcano erupting had anything to do with that? I'll be interested in your taste test.

TB, congrats on the new gasser! Fun, fun, fun. I had two empty 20 lb tanks that needed propane refills for my gasser. I only use the side burner for starting charcoal and roasting coffee. Actually had a bit of a challenge finding a gas station with a "filling" station, not just an exchange cage. Found three relatively close to me. The app "Gas Buddy" helped. One wanted $4.25/gal, another $3.79/gal. The third only charged $3.26/gal. 8.2 gallons only cost $26 and some change. Way cheaper than the exchange cages. There was a little left in one of the tanks before I filled it.


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## browneyesvictim

noboundaries said:


> Wow, Erik, that Gesha is pricy stuff! Now out of stock. I wonder if the volcano erupting had anything to do with that? I'll be interested in your taste test.



It wasn't so bad... $18.72 for 2 lbs. I'll let you know how it goes. I haven't had Gesha before. It seems to be a new popular trend that has drove the price up and has a limited sources and suppliers.


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## noboundaries

browneyesvictim said:


> It wasn't so bad... $18.72 for 2 lbs. I'll let you know how it goes. I haven't had Gesha before. It seems to be a new popular trend that has drove the price up and has a limited sources and suppliers.



You're right. That's not so bad. I saw a price this morning of $42-something per pound when I looked. Probably a typo, but it was out-of-stock.


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## noboundaries

I switched my roasting pan to an old 10" stainless steel Dutch oven we had out in the garage. I can easily roast a pound now. Infrared was useless, but I was able to eyeball the roast today. Costa Rica Helsar. We'll see how it turns out.


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## browneyesvictim

That's a brilliant idea Ray! I thought stepping up to my 8 quart circulon stock pot was an improvement, but MAN a DO would sure make temp control a breeze! I still get some variegation in the color of the beans with the stockpot I might have to give it a try in one of my cast iron Dutch Ovens. Why was IR useless?


----------



## noboundaries

I've found that when I put too many beans in the pan the beans on top tend to cool off. I was seeing beans that were nearing light Vienna roast and was only seeing 388 to 404F on the IR. In the smaller pan a light Vienna was in the 430s. The roast was nice. Man they smell fantastic off-gassing. Four more days before I taste them.


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## browneyesvictim

Guess what I'm doing right now?


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## noboundaries

I can smell it from here!

I've learned more since I tried the salt addition mentioned earlier.

The coffees I've roasted that I don't care for typically have an aftertaste that sticks with me for hours. I would call it astringent or sour. I've played around with my roasting techniques on those coffees and it doesn't seem to make much difference. Time to look elsewhere.

Astringent or sour tasting coffee can be due to dirty equipment and rancid coffee oils. The equipment can be everything from the grinder to the brewer. I've cleaned everything thoroughly. That's not the issue.

Lighter roasts emphasize the "fruity" nature of the coffee bean. Fruity can come across as sour. Think lemon, lime, apple, cherry, etc. I typically roast to FC to light Vienna, so too light a roast isn't the issue.

Darker roasts can taste sour due to the decomposition of Chlorogenic Acid (which causes heartburn from coffee) into two other acids, Quinic and Caffeic acids. Based on the level of sourness I'm tasting in certain coffees, I'll set this one aside for now.

Roasting a coffee too fast can also cause sourness. I'm typically in the 12-15 minute range for everything.  Some taste great, some taste sour.  Maybe I have to adjust my timing for different beans, but I don't think so.

That brings me to the extraction, or steeping, of the coffee. Extraction is influenced by the temperature of the water, size of the grind, and length of time the ground coffee steeps in the hot water. I think this is the culprit. The fruity elements of the roasted bean are extracted first. Too fruity because the coffee wasn't steep long enough causes a sour taste. The sugars of the roasted bean are extracted last. Too much roasted sugar extracted because the coffee was steeped too long causes a bitter taste. I don't taste bitter, so finding the balance between the two is the issue.

Today I kept everything exactly the same, and doubled my extraction time on roasted beans I didn't care for. The sourness diminished significantly. It wasn't completely gone, but it was a dramatic improvement and the coffee was close to enjoyable to drink.

Tomorrow I'm going to use a finer grind and a longer brew time on the coffee I didn't like. Here's why. I found the following chart online on how to fix bad tasting coffee that is fresh roasted.

*Flavor* *   - Brew Time*      -* Water Temp*      - * Grind
Sour*        - Increase           - Decrease        - Finer
*Bitter*       - Decrease           -  Hotter          - Coarser

Lessons learned today.

After 50+ years of drinking coffee, I'm amazed this old dog can still learn new tricks.


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## tallbm

That's excellent info!


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## KonaLance

noboundaries said:


> I love coffee, have since I was a kid delivering papers early mornings. Grew up on Folgers, then fell in love with coffee overseas when in the Navy.  I've been searching for that perfect cup ever since, but for some reason I never considered roasting my own beans. I was perfectly happy buying roasted beans at the grocery store and grinding them for use.
> 
> Thanks to hillbillyjim and ljroller in a thread called Smoked Coffee, the seed of roasting my own beans was planted between my ears.  I had no desire to buy an expensive coffee roaster, so I started watching YouTube videos about roasting coffee beans in a frying pan, plus dozens of other videos about home roasting coffee. Due to smoke and chaff, this is something you want to do outside.  My gasser side burner was perfect.
> 
> All that was needed to home roast coffee was any type of frying pan, an infrared thermometer (and this isn't essential), something to stir the beans while roasting, a timer, and something to cool the beans quickly when they are done, like a fan and a strainer.
> 
> I had everything I needed except the beans.  Went online to Amazon and purchased 3 lbs of unroasted, Nicaraguan, Single Ranch, Specialty beans from Primos Coffee Company. Price was $18.99, or $6.33/lb.
> 
> I've always liked a darker roast with an oily finish. Extremely dark French and Italian roasts, which I have consumed for years, have an oily finish.  Then I learned that's how bad beans are roasted to be sold. I decided to try something just a little lighter with my own roasting.  The beans are still dark brown, but not black, and they have a satin finish, not oily.
> 
> Roasting process: Preheat the pan to 350F on a gas grill side burner, or over a hot charcoal fire (looking forward to doing the charcoal thing), add the beans to your pan, start the timer, and stir continuously, watching for color changes, listening for 1st crack (popcorn popping sound), second crack (Rice Crispies snap), and the color you want on your beans. If things progress a little too quickly, just lift the pan off the heat and keep stirring.
> 
> The majority of the beans should crack between 6-8 minutes, as late as 9-10 minutes. A couple minutes later, the second crack sounds.  When you see the color you want, turn off the heat and cool the beans quickly over a fan, putting them in a strainer or colander while you stir the beans.  They cool in a couple minutes. Put the cool beans in a Ziplock bag, not completely sealed, and let them outgas CO2 for a few hours (4 to 48, depending who you're listening to).  Grind what you need for a cup or pot of coffee, and enjoy.
> 
> First roast ever: 10/20/17.  1/2 cup of green beans and a small frying pan.  I over heated my pan, scorched the beans, but still ended up with great tasting coffee.  Total roasting time was 12 minutes, then another 3 minutes to cool.  Beans were inconsistent in color from black to dark brown.  Let them offgas for about 18 hours then ground enough for my single cup (12 oz) cone filtered coffee maker.  Wow.  Later, made an 8 oz cup in one of my three Italian Moka pots (3 cup, 6 cup, 9 cup, but they are espresso cups, like 2 oz each).  Unbelievably rich and delicious, even with the scorching issue.
> 
> Picture of first roast. You can see the color inconsistency.
> 
> View attachment 341761
> 
> 
> Second Roast ever, 10/21/17. Went to GoodWill and for $2.88 I purchased a 4" deep by 8" diameter, heavy duty pan and a wooden spatula.  The deeper pan stopped me from splashing beans out of the pan while I stirred them.  It worked like a charm.
> 
> View attachment 341762
> View attachment 341763
> 
> 
> I prepped everything I thought I'd need, but never used the gloves. I needed them with the frying pan, but not with this deeper pan.
> 
> View attachment 341764
> View attachment 341765
> 
> 
> Added 1 cup of green beans to a properly heated pan (took 1 min 20 seconds to reach 350F), then started stirring.  Sorry, didn't get any pics of the beans turning color or cracking off the chaff.  Everything happens pretty fast.
> 
> View attachment 341766
> View attachment 341767
> View attachment 341768
> 
> 
> Total time on this roast was 15 minutes using this deeper pan and more beans. Result was a much more consistent color and roast. Can't wait to try them tomorrow morning.
> 
> View attachment 341769
> View attachment 341770
> 
> 
> 1 cup of green beans weighed 6.25 oz. After roasted, they weighed 5.10 oz and measured almost 1 3/4 cups.  Yes, the beans swell when roasted.  That amount will last me probably 3 to 4 days. I usually have a 12 oz mug in the morning, and a 3 or 6 cup Moka pot in the early afternoon.
> 
> Beans in Ziplock, offgassing.
> 
> View attachment 341771
> 
> 
> If you love coffee, and you have not tried roasting your own beans, give it a shot.  It is SOOOO easy!  The difference in taste is amazing.
> 
> Thank for hanging in there if you made it this far.  Happy Roasting!
> 
> Ray


Awesome information, since I live in between 2 coffee farms here in Kona , I’m going to have to try that 
I think I will try it on my Weber Wok with a little coffee Wood for flavor


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## noboundaries

KonaLance said:


> View attachment 367721
> View attachment 367720
> 
> Awesome information, since I live in between 2 coffee farms here in Kona , I’m going to have to try that
> I think I will try it on my Weber Wok with a little coffee Wood for flavor



The Weber Wok would certainly work!

I'm just loving the whole roasting experience. And I experiment once I feel it gets familiar. Tomorrow, I'm going to try putting a stainless colander in a stainless Dutch oven. Cover the colander, cover the Dutch oven, heat and shake occasionally through the roast. Going to start with a small amount of beans I don't care for and see if it improves the flavor. More to follow!


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## KonaLance

noboundaries said:


> The Weber Wok would certainly work!
> 
> I'm just loving the whole roasting experience. And I experiment once I feel it gets familiar. Tomorrow, I'm going to try putting a stainless colander in a stainless Dutch oven. Cover the colander, cover the Dutch oven, heat and shake occasionally through the roast. Going to start with a small amount of beans I don't care for and see if it improves the flavor. More to follow!



Awesome idea, I will keep on eye on this thread , I will also let you know when I give it a try !


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## noboundaries

Okay, now I'm jealous of a horse!


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## KonaLance

lol
Our horses get out sometimes, and they love all that green grass in the neighbors coffee field, and he loves just seeing them in his field, so it’s all good at the end of the day. 
They don’t touch the coffee at all


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## noboundaries

Got too busy writing yesterday and didn't get any coffee roasted with the new method......but I did today!  There are noticeable differences in the roast.  

As a remind of the above, I put a stainless steel colander inside a stainless steel Dutch oven. I put a silicone cover we use in the microwave over the colander, then covered the DO. It wasn't sealed as the handles of the colander interfere with the DO lid, but it was pretty close. Definitely enough to capture heat. Pictures AFTER the roast of the empty set-up are shown below. 

I pre-heated the above setup for 2 minutes with the side burner on high, then added 9.5 oz of green Mexican organic beans that I never enjoyed. They always tasted kind of sour. I lowered the heat to just below high, about 7/8's of maximum. Wearing leather BBQ gloves, I held the lid on and tossed the set up for about 3 seconds every 15-20 seconds. 

Here's what I noticed on the roast.  
1. No scorching! Each bean was evenly roasted. Some were dark, some lighter, but I didn't get dark on one side and lighter on the other on the same bean. And none of the dark spots from scorching. 
2. First crack didn't occur until 9.5 minutes. Usually I'm in the 6-8 minute range with the pan roast.
3. First crack occurred more slowly and lasted until almost 14 minutes.
4. Beans went into second crack very quickly. Since this is basically a blind roast, I was depending on my ears and my eyes to determine when to stop.
5. I was still hearing a lot of second crack when I stopped the roast somewhere between 15.5 and 16 minutes. There is a thick grey smoke that happens when the beans start going into light Vienna and the French roast stage. I turned off the heat and put the colander on the fan for the beans to cool.
6. Note to self. LET THE COLANDER COOL BEFORE PUTTING IT ON THE FAN! The legs of the colander melted into the plastic fan cover. Oops. Hold it over the fan and let the colander cool too before letting it rest on the fan.
7. All the chaff is still in the beans, so it goes EVERYWHERE when you start cooling the beans, especially if you stir them over the fan.

At this point I'm going to let the beans off-gas for 4 days, then taste to see if there is any improvement or difference. If there is:

Lessons for next time.
1. See #6 above!
2. Shake the beans more often once first crack starts. I was AMAZED how fast the beans progressed from first crack into second crack. I'll get a more even roast by tossing the setup more often. 
3. Stop the roast before you see grey smoke!

Now we wait for the taste results.

Here is the set-up I used.
Stainless steel colander in stainless steel Dutch oven.






Silicone microwaveable dish cover over the colander.






DO lid on everything.






Roast results: Reminds me of my first pan roast. With a little more practice and shaking, I should be able to get a more even roast.  Thanks for looking!

Ray


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## tallbm

As usual that is awesome!
Your experience here makes me think, that is why the rotating perforated drums are used so heavily in roasting devices and operations.  Your findings really make me lean towards one of those Kaldi drum roasters IF I ever go that route.


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## noboundaries

Oh, and one more coffee hack for sour tasting coffee. If the grid I posted in #112 above doesn't work, try adding a little baking soda to the grounds before brewing. I just tried it on a different sour tasting coffee I roasted last week and it took away a lot of that mouth puckering, long-lasting, sour aftertaste. Tomorrow, I'll add just a little more baking soda (NOT BAKING POWDER!) to see if it eliminates the little sourness that is left.

Don't use a lot. If you are making a 12 cup pot, all it takes is 1/4 teaspoon. If you're only making 16 oz, like I do, it's just a pinch. You'll have to experiment to see what works.

Coffee is acidic, about a 5 on the PH scale. 7 is neutral. Baking soda is base with a PH of 9. Assuming the coffee isn't under extracted or brewed at too low a temperature, Quinic and Caffeic acids in darker roasts can make coffee taste sour. I like darker roasts. What the heck, I tried the baking soda and it worked!

Baking soda is a salt, so if you are on a low salt diet for high blood pressure, might need to skip this hack.


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## noboundaries

Next effort after post #119 using the Dutch Oven/Colander/Covers set up, but THIS time I threaded a Mav meat probe through the colander handle and into the beans. I could monitor the rise in temp of the beans and controlled my heat better.  I preheated the set up to 425F, added the beans (8 oz of green Costa Rica Chirippo), put the covers on, and hit the timer.

It was SOOOO easy to monitor the temp of the beans.
1. The first crack came along at around 9:30 on the timer.
2. The first crack proceeded slower than in the straight pan roast method.
3. I shook the setup a lot more often closer to the end of the roast.
4. When I saw 434F on the Mav, I started to hear the first hints of the second crack. I turned off the heat and took the colander out of the DO. I just tossed the beans in the colander until they cooled a bit, then held them over the fan to blow off the chaff.  Total roast time was 13:30.

Lookie what I got! The result looks BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! Even roast, no scorching, and it was very easy to find the bad beans, called "quakers." I tossed them. It's a little darker than what shows up in the photo, but not much. It pretty much matches what's on Sweet Maria's website for 434F bean temp, a City+ roast level.

This is how I'll roast my coffee from now on! I'm not waiting four days to start brewing this batch. I'm going to brew 16oz mug on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday to see how the flavor changes as it rests. It's always fun to have an experiment work. Fun, fun, fun!


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## tallbm

That looks awesome!  I think I may have to brew a batch here soon.  I'll have to stick to the old pan roasting method but I'm watching your trials very closely to see how I can improve :)


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## noboundaries

I'm now starting to do my own blends and am having improved results. Coffees that were good on their own, but didn't knock my socks off, are great for blending with other roasted coffees.  

As a background, I rate my roasted coffees by origin/farm/co-op on a scale of 1-10. Coffees I love: 10. Undrinkable: 1.

I had a Columbian (8) from Sweet Maria's, that on its own was nice, but pretty light tasting. It was roasted darker than your average coffee, but not black like a French roast.

A Mexican Organic (3), I bought green off Amazon, had a sour taste I just could not eliminate no matter what I tried (roast level, salt, baking soda, etc). It tasted decent roasted to a dark level, called a Light Vienna, then brewed in a moka pot and consumed with cream and sugar. I'm trying to get away from sugar and this wasn't helping.

Finally I had a Costa Rica Chirippo (7) I showed above I bought from Sweet Maria's. It was delicious, but lacked the body I like in a cup. The Costa Rica was my second roast using the Dutch Oven/Colander/Maverick method. It was roasted a little too light for my tastes. The Mexican and Columbian were both roasted more dark. What the heck, lets play with this.

Yesterday I started blending scoops of the three coffee beans above, by weight, in a bowl.  16 gr each of the Columbian and Mexican; 8 gr of the Chirippo.  40 grams total for 16 oz of water. Stir the beans together and then grind them.

The flavor is a noticeable improvement over each of the beans on their own. I am rating the blend an 8. It has more body and complexity, plus it toned down the sour aftertaste of the Mexican. I only share this not for you to duplicate my results with the beans I used, but to suggest you try blending your own for coffees you're not crazy about. It makes a difference.


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## noboundaries

I now have 14 roasts under my belt using the method I described in post #119. I'm basically getting the same roast consistency as a $1600 drum roaster. Sure, it's a little more labor intensive than fill and dump, but we're talking a 5 minute set up, a 4 minute pre-heat, a 16 minute shake n roast (shaking about every 10 seconds), a 5 minute cool down, and a five minute weigh and equipment storage process. 35 minutes total.   

My new favorite final temp range is 454-464F. The roast comes out dark with just a hint of brown at 454F. The sour tastes are gone. The rich, bittersweet chocolate tastes are wonderful, and there's no burnt flavor like I've tasted from dark roast, store bought beans.

I'm on track to roast 40-45 lbs of green coffee annually, roasting every 5-6 days. Costa Rica and African coffees are my favorites. When I look at Sweet Maria's for coffees, I use the "nut and cocoa" flavor profile, then usually pick up the least expensive, buying 10 lbs at a time. Most of my orders include one 10 lb coffee, and a few 2 lb packages of other coffees for experimentation. Shipping is minimal ($9) to my location for up to 20 lbs.

I go to sleep each night thinking about my coffee the next morning. I look forward to it that much.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> I now have 14 roasts under my belt using the method I described in post #119. I'm basically getting the same roast consistency as a $1600 drum roaster. Sure, it's a little more labor intensive than fill and dump, but we're talking a 5 minute set up, a 4 minute pre-heat, a 16 minute shake n roast (shaking about every 10 seconds), a 5 minute cool down, and a five minute weigh and equipment storage process. 35 minutes total.
> 
> My new favorite final temp range is 454-464F. The roast comes out dark with just a hint of brown at 454F. The sour tastes are gone. The rich, bittersweet chocolate tastes are wonderful, and there's no burnt flavor like I've tasted from dark roast, store bought beans.
> 
> I'm on track to roast 40-45 lbs of green coffee annually, roasting every 5-6 days. Costa Rica and African coffees are my favorites. When I look at Sweet Maria's for coffees, I use the "nut and cocoa" flavor profile, then usually pick up the least expensive, buying 10 lbs at a time. Most of my orders include one 10 lb coffee, and a few 2 lb packages of other coffees for experimentation. Shipping is minimal ($9) to my location for up to 20 lbs.
> 
> I go to sleep each night thinking about my coffee the next morning. I look forward to it that much.



I think you have talked me into getting the Kaldi with all of this information hahaha.  It will just have to wait though.  Coffee roasting is at the end of my to-do list based on my current priorities :( 
The info you post though is super valuable and thanks!!! :)


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## noboundaries

That Kaldi is one cool looking roaster. And the price is definitely better for the home roaster than others I've seen. I like that you can use it for darker roasts, too. A lot of the inexpensive roasters available for the home roaster are not for darker roasts.


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## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> That Kaldi is one cool looking roaster. And the price is definitely better for the home roaster than others I've seen. I like that you can use it for darker roasts, too. A lot of the inexpensive roasters available for the home roaster are not for darker roasts.



Yeah I think it will allow me to do whatever I need to get done without me going too crazy.  The idea is to produce good consistent roasts with a lower amount of effort.  Beyond that is too much as you would probably agree.  Look at what you are doing with a little time and household items :)


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## rexster314

I stumbled on this post last week. Coffee roasting always seemed "exotic" to me and have wanted to try it for some time. I purchased a stainless steel roasting drum on eBay, modified it to fit my rotisserie spit on my Kitchenaid gas grill and have been having success. I bought some green Kona beans last week and was able to get to roasting them today.


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## KonaLance

I


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## KonaLance

I like that !
I live in the middle of 2 Kona coffee farms, I will have to hit up my neighbours for some green coffee. 
Are you pretty happy with rotisserie setup ? 
i just looked on ebay and cannot find a drum, do you have a link to the one you found.









tallbm said:


> Yeah I think it will allow me to do whatever I need to get done without me going too crazy.  The idea is to produce good consistent roasts with a lower amount of effort.  Beyond that is too much as you would probably agree.  Look at what you are doing with a little time and household items :)


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## rexster314

My bad. I got it off Amazon.


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## KonaLance

rexster314 said:


> My bad. I got it off Amazon.


Awesome 
Thank you


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## rexster314

I had to take my Dremel to the spit opening on each end and enlarge it to twice it's original size to fit my spit rod


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## noboundaries

Those baskets for the rotisserie to use on the gas grill go FAST whenever someone gets them in stock. There are lots of cheap, small baskets available, but the ones like rexster has get bought out in a hurry online.


----------



## noboundaries

I have started playing with mixing roasts; say 50% medium roast and 50% dark roast, then mixing them together. Kind of stumbled upon the process by accident back in early September. I was roasting a Costa Rican coffee that was pretty good, but rather simple tasting. I intended to take it to the Light Vienna stage, which is just before the dark French roast. I received a phone call I had to take, so I stopped the roast at the medium stage (425F bean temp) and handled the call. I then roasted another batch and took it to the Light Vienna stage (462F bean temp). After resting both batches for four days I mixed a grind 50/50 of the medium and dark, then made a mug of coffee. It was much more complex tasting than the bean roasted to one temperature alone. I've been mixing batches 50% medium and 50% dark ever since.

I've been buried with chores, work, and the arrival of our first grandchild (Mason) for the last three weeks. No time to roast coffee, so today, when I was at my grocer, Winco, I bought a bag of their Mexican French and their Ethiopian medium out of their bulk bins. I like them both alone, but when mixed together, so much better!

Just food for thought if you enjoy roasting or grinding your own coffee.


----------



## rexster314

I've moved on from my first roasting drum to this one





I got it last month. Heavier stainless, no hot spots and easier to load and empty. I also have added this rotisserie motor. Adjustable speed from 3rpm to 55rpm. 





Previously it took about 25 minutes to roast a pound of coffee, now it's about 17 minutes and no scorching or hot spots.


----------



## noboundaries

Great looking drum. Like the baffles to mix it up inside.


----------



## browneyesvictim

That looks like an excellent setup Rexter. Man, I wish I could do a pound at a time.

Ray- in all fairness of disclosure... The Mrs. and I decided our Christmas present to each other this year was to get ourselves a coffee bean roaster. (I swear it was actually her idea!) We have done about a half a dozen 1/2 lb batches in our new Gene Café. Love this thing so far! Much more even roasts and no stirring the pot!


----------



## noboundaries

browneyesvictim said:


> Ray- in all fairness of disclosure... The Mrs. and I decided our Christmas present to each other this year was to get ourselves a coffee bean roaster. (I swear it was actually her idea!) We have done about a half a dozen 1/2 lb batches in our new Gene Café. Love this thing so far! Much more even roasts and no stirring the pot!



Erik, what a great little roaster! 8 oz of green coffee roasts down to about 6.4 oz of roasted coffee the way I do it. That lasts me just under 5 days. That baby would get a workout, but would be so much easier than the process I use now.

I'm debating either replacing my rusted out gasser elements and doing drum roasting like rexster, or getting an electric drum roaster I can put over my gasser's side burner. My wife will go for either if it gives her a Christmas present idea.


----------



## rexster314

Here's a small video of the roaster. The stuff flying around is coffee bean "husks"


----------



## tallbm

I'm envious! :)


----------



## KonaLance

rexster314 said:


> Here's a small video of the roaster. The stuff flying around is coffee bean "husks"



Why is it spinning so fast? Did you modify the motor?


----------



## rexster314

KonaLance said:


> Why is it spinning so fast? Did you modify the motor?



New motor that spins up to 55 rpms. The faster speed allows the coffee to roast more evenly and faster.


----------



## tallbm

Well you jokers went and pushed me over the limit! 

I ordered a 5/16 45" spit rod, the adjustable motor that does up to 55rpm, the claw set with all the other rod necessities, and a basket...  This is all so I can roast some beans for Christmas gifts again this year.   Oh and maybe dabble in some spit cooking.  Just today I saw where a guy did a literal bunch of boneless skinless chicken thighs on the spinner and they looked amazing!

I think all stuff should be in hand by Dec 12 so I will report back if/when I get it all in and hopefully will report back with some bean pics as apposed to questions on how to get the thing setup properly :D


----------



## rexster314

My wife dearly loves huli-huli chicken. I haven't done any since I got my new rotisserie motor. Might have to do that next week sometime. But the roasting basket I got from Coffee Roasters Club and the new motor put my coffee roasting to another level of quality. No hotspots whatsoever that I had a problem with using the old basket and K/A motor.


----------



## tallbm

rexster314 said:


> My wife dearly loves huli-huli chicken. I haven't done any since I got my new rotisserie motor. Might have to do that next week sometime. But the roasting basket I got from Coffee Roasters Club and the new motor put my coffee roasting to another level of quality. No hotspots whatsoever that I had a problem with using the old basket and K/A motor.



I'm looking forward to the fun of it all for sure.  I believe people are going to be very happy with what I make here real soon :)


----------



## tallbm

Well guys I have 2 roasts under my belt with my rotisserie setup.

The first & trial run was with 8oz of the same Ethiopian Yirgs I've been roasting all along and was the trial run.
It took roughly 23-26 minutes to roast them to something of a Vienna with a little Full French Roast mixed in.
It was the most even roast I've had to day but the left side of my grill is a little hotter than the right side so I learned to turn that burner down a bit to avoid the beans on that side getting a little more roasted. 
I used the IR instant read gun thermometer to best measure the temps and guess I did an ok job but this is still very inexact to me as numbers hop all over and I'm not sure I'm getting the beans temp as much as the roasting cage's temp lol.


The Ol' Lady loved it and said there was no bitterness and great flavor!  Two others said it was very very good and one of them commented on the quality of the coffee and how there were all kinds of good and sweeter flavors from this bean with no hard acidity "like in most coffee" he said.

So my 2nd run I went all in and decided to roast the rest of the beats at 1.5 pounds!  They are resting and will be ready for the Ol' Lady to drink Friday morning.

This roast was a bit different.  It took considerably longer but that makes sens with 3X the amount of beans.  The roasting took 57 minutes.  I was even more unsure about my roasting temps and did quite a bit of tinkering trying to learn how to measure the temps and trying to hold a steady temp and so on.  I got better with holding a steady temp BUT I'm not convinced that the temps I'm reading are actually the real temps of the beans hahhaha and here is why.

So I tried to hold between 415F and 440F where my desired bean roasting temp would be 425-428F.
Well I think I did a pretty good job of holding in the range BUT I didn't hear hardly any first cracking until the very end of the roast where I was watching the football game and came out with temps well over 500F being read.

According to one of SweetMaria's bit of info the first crack should roughly happen around temp 415F or so.  Welllllll, I didn't hear jack crap for a first crack for 90% of the roast and only some first cracks at the end when I let the temp get a little high because I was watching football!

I am positive I roasted the beans to just over a Vienna roast but not into a Full French Roast so I know they got plenty of temp and color going.  I just don't know what to make of this all.

My thoughts are that my temp gauging is about 30F low but again I have no way of actually measuring this and the best means is me shooting the IR beam on to the cage as the beans turn and the number hops around all over the place so I try to shoot as many spots as seams sensible and keep within a range for somewhat of an average around the number I'm shooting for.

Friday morning I'll know if the beans came out crappy or if they are fine or different or whatever they have become lol.

I would like to be able to roast 1-2 pounds at a time (which my setup can easily handle) but I'm unsure of what to make of this last roasting experience.

Any thoughts or wisdom you guys have would greatly be appreciated! :)


----------



## noboundaries

57 minutes is a LONG time to roast coffee. Beans should finish roasting in less than half that time. I understand that coffees roasted too long will taste "baked." I have no idea what that means, so I looked it up.

"Baked" coffee happens when it takes too long to reach first crack during the roast. Beans absorb heat until "first crack." Absorbing heat is an endothermic reaction. At first crack, the beans have doubled in size and explosively release the heat with steam like popcorn, an exothermic reaction. 

The sugars in green coffee beans change as heat is absorbed. If the bean is roasted too slowly, the sugar changes are less than ideal, causing changes in final flavor.

The first possible indication the coffee is baked is that it might smell like baked bread when removed from the roaster.

The second possible indication is it tastes "flat." There is no tartness, sweetness, or character to the roast. Some say it doesn't taste like coffee at all.....more like tea.

The third possible indication is it tastes ashy, grassy, and just off.

More green beans means you have a greater mass to roast. To get 1.5 pounds to roast in the same amount of time as 8 oz means you need more heat.

And you thought learning to Q had challenges!


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> 57 minutes is a LONG time to roast coffee. Beans should finish roasting in less than half that time. I understand that coffees roasted too long will taste "baked." I have no idea what that means, so I looked it up.
> 
> "Baked" coffee happens when it takes too long to reach first crack during the roast. Beans absorb heat until "first crack." Absorbing heat is an endothermic reaction. At first crack, the beans have doubled in size and explosively release the heat with steam like popcorn, an exothermic reaction.
> 
> The sugars in green coffee beans change as heat is absorbed. If the bean is roasted too slowly, the sugar changes are less than ideal, causing changes in final flavor.
> 
> The first possible indication the coffee is baked is that it might smell like baked bread when removed from the roaster.
> 
> The second possible indication is it tastes "flat." There is no tartness, sweetness, or character to the roast. Some say it doesn't taste like coffee at all.....more like tea.
> 
> The third possible indication is it tastes ashy, grassy, and just off.
> 
> More green beans means you have a greater mass to roast. To get 1.5 pounds to roast in the same amount of time as 8 oz means you need more heat.
> 
> And you thought learning to Q had challenges!




It's funny, I was reading the same thing about an hour ago.  I fear I may have "baked" the beans.  We'll see what the taster says on Friday hahaha.

Well this lets me know that Temp is really not as big a deal with coffee roasting as Time is which is the exact opposite of BBQ hahaha.

I'm guessing I'll just have to crank up the heat and work more based on time and 1st crack and go from there.
I chalk it up to dumb luck that in the past my coffee roasting temps and times were coincidentally falling into place with one another.
I guess now I know that won't be the case with larger batches of beans that need more heat to behave in the proper amounts of time.  This is a heck of a learning experience and like with BBQ and other things, you live and learn :D


----------



## noboundaries

When I bump up the volume I do it in smaller steps. I did 8 oz, moved to 10 oz. Last roast was 14 oz and it was still in the 14-19 minute window I like. I was going to roast 16 oz of green coffee today, but it's WAY too windy. I'd lose too much heat. I've noticed that wind and outside temp both affect the timing, wind more so than outside temperature.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> When I bump up the volume I do it in smaller steps. I did 8 oz, moved to 10 oz. Last roast was 14 oz and it was still in the 14-19 minute window I like. I was going to roast 16 oz of green coffee today, but it's WAY too windy. I'd lose too much heat. I've noticed that wind and outside temp both affect the timing, wind more so than outside temperature.



I did do the roasting yesterday in about 34 degree weather but that isn't my issue.  My issue was not being up to speed on the appropriate practices.  After discussing it today and doing more research I realized that I had forgot all the stuff I read about "baking" the beans and what it means to get to the first crack and such.  I had my little process down and forgot all the reasoning behind it.  Then I changed everything and didn't go back to the fundamentals hahaha. 

So it was definitely all error on my part but I will be better prepared next time :)


----------



## rexster314

I made this post on another thread, but I think it belongs in this one as well. 
_RE: I've been doing pretty good roasting my coffee. Since I got a good 2 pound capacity drum and high speed rotisserie motor, I'm getting excellent, even roasting and usually takes around 15 minutes at the most for most of my roasts. My grill is a 6 burner. I initially turn on all the burners to get up to temp, the hood thermometer will read around 600 and I've verified with my Thermoworks Smoke grill probe that it's about 25 deg higher. When it reaches temp, I'll put the beans on the spinner and turn it on around 45 rpm. I'll then turn down the 2 center burners that are directly under the roasting drum, leaving the other 4 on high. I listen religiously for the first crack to begin. On some coffee, like Jamaica Blue Mountain and the Hawaiian coffees, I'll pull the beans right after the first crack or a couple minutes afterwards. Other coffees I'll roast to just when the second crack starts and I'll pull the beans at that time. I don't like over roasted coffee, too much burn flavor for me, but my way works out the best for us. I don't probe the coffee nor do i use my laser thermometer either. Laser will pick up more temp from the basket than coffee inside anyway. I guess this is a roundabout way of saying I roast my coffees at around 625 or so._


----------



## tallbm

rexster314 said:


> I made this post on another thread, but I think it belongs in this one as well.
> _RE: I've been doing pretty good roasting my coffee. Since I got a good 2 pound capacity drum and high speed rotisserie motor, I'm getting excellent, even roasting and usually takes around 15 minutes at the most for most of my roasts. My grill is a 6 burner. I initially turn on all the burners to get up to temp, the hood thermometer will read around 600 and I've verified with my Thermoworks Smoke grill probe that it's about 25 deg higher. When it reaches temp, I'll put the beans on the spinner and turn it on around 45 rpm. I'll then turn down the 2 center burners that are directly under the roasting drum, leaving the other 4 on high. I listen religiously for the first crack to begin. On some coffee, like Jamaica Blue Mountain and the Hawaiian coffees, I'll pull the beans right after the first crack or a couple minutes afterwards. Other coffees I'll roast to just when the second crack starts and I'll pull the beans at that time. I don't like over roasted coffee, too much burn flavor for me, but my way works out the best for us. I don't probe the coffee nor do i use my laser thermometer either. Laser will pick up more temp from the basket than coffee inside anyway. I guess this is a roundabout way of saying I roast my coffees at around 625 or so._



I'll have to follow a similar procedure.  It may be a while before I get to my next batch of roasting :)


----------



## noboundaries

I'm not using a rotisserie, but I do have a probe in the beans as they roast with my "covered stainless steel colander inside a covered Dutch oven shake it every 5-6 seconds over high heat" method. I've gotten so familiar with the sound of the roast progression, while watching the clock and the bean temp, I'm going to see if I can roast the beans by sound only. I'll still use the clock and the Mav probe, but I'll set them up so I won't be able to see them as the beans roast. Been wanting to do this for a while, but the weather hasn't been cooperating. Either raining or windy or I'm busy. My store bought, roasted beans are good, and only $5.98 to $6.98/lb, roasted weight, but they lack the crisp taste of freshly home-roasted.


----------



## noboundaries

Just wondering if anyone is still roasting coffee. I had to take a hiatus over the winter due to rain messing up my roasting schedule, but I'm back to it. Still using the roasting setup described earlier, with slightly bigger mesh colander inside an old stainless Dutch oven. I've pushed the green bean weight to 16 ounces with success. Just tried 18 ounces, and I think I baked the coffee. Bake took 24 minutes and I didn't hear much cracking at all. The wind picked up when I was roasting, and that always extends with my roasting times too. 

BTW, if you are in the market for a new grinder, my wife just got me a Breville Smart Pro coffee grinder for my birthday to replace my decades old Cuisinart grinder. It is both programmed and manual. She used coupons to bring the price of the new grinder down quite a bit from $200. My old grinder still works, but the grinds were getting REAL inconsistent. 

I'm infatuated with the new grinder. 60 grind settings external, with 10 more internal if you need it, for a total of 600 possible grind settings (Yeah, I don't need that many. No one does). It's much quieter. Sounds like you're standing in Westeros as SB grinds your coffee for the set (wink wink). The grind size is so uniform. Plus, absolutely no bean static electricity, which was always a pain with the Cuisinart. A drop of water solved the static problem, but the taste with the new grinder has taken coffee flavor to a new level.

If you're into espresso and use a porta filter, the grinder has magnetic attachments to grind right into the filter. Quite a machine.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Just wondering if anyone is still roasting coffee. I had to take a hiatus over the winter due to rain messing up my roasting schedule, but I'm back to it. Still using the roasting setup described earlier, with slightly bigger mesh colander inside an old stainless Dutch oven. I've pushed the green bean weight to 16 ounces with success. Just tried 18 ounces, and I think I baked the coffee. Bake took 24 minutes and I didn't hear much cracking at all. The wind picked up when I was roasting, and that always extends with my roasting times too.
> 
> BTW, if you are in the market for a new grinder, my wife just got me a Breville Smart Pro coffee grinder for my birthday to replace my decades old Cuisinart grinder. It is both programmed and manual. She used coupons to bring the price of the new grinder down quite a bit from $200. My old grinder still works, but the grinds were getting REAL inconsistent.
> 
> I'm infatuated with the new grinder. 60 grind settings external, with 10 more internal if you need it, for a total of 600 possible grind settings (Yeah, I don't need that many. No one does). It's much quieter. Sounds like you're standing in Westeros as SB grinds your coffee for the set (wink wink). The grind size is so uniform. Plus, absolutely no bean static electricity, which was always a pain with the Cuisinart. A drop of water solved the static problem, but the taste with the new grinder has taken coffee flavor to a new level.
> 
> If you're into espresso and use a porta filter, the grinder has magnetic attachments to grind right into the filter. Quite a machine.
> 
> View attachment 395171



I haven't roasted in a while, too many other things going on.  Mainly I started playing with a different type of bean... cocoa ;)
That has been taking up my spare time.

It's on my list to roast more for my girlfriend but it will still be a while before I can get to it.
Thanks for the info on the grinder know.  It is nice to know how the grind has opened up another dimension for you.  This stuff is fascinating!


----------



## browneyesvictim

WOW! That's a nice fancy grinder Ray! That baby sure looks nice! I also learned the difference using a good conical burr grinder versus the whizzer type. That was all I knew and didn't know any better until you make the switch. I went with the OXO brand and love it!. The built in scale makes dialing in the perfect brew consistently every time a snap. I think there's about 15 grind settings- plenty for me! I cant imagine what the precision of 60 settings and even more grind uniformity could bring! Congrats, and Happy Birthday!

To your original question... YES! Roasting coffee like CRAZY! The wife and I have really settled on a Sweet Marias bean we both really like that's got a good price: Monkey Blend! We order in much bigger batches, and roasting coffee in the new Gene Cafe roaster in 1/2 lb batches and is so easy the wife is roasting with it now.


----------



## rexster314

Still turning and roasting on my grill. Winter didn't stop me, just had to be choosy on which days to roast. I continue to buy pure Kona and pure Jamaican Blue Mountain from Blue Macaw Coffee on ebay. I'm still using my old Kitchenaid Pro grinder that's 20 years old. Replaced the grinding plates last year.


----------



## noboundaries

Hey, glad folks are still browning little green beans! I missed that fresh flavor when buying, grinding, and drinking pre-roasted beans all winter. 

After my first roast of the year a few weeks ago, my wife was in the other room when I opened the coffee container for the first time holding the freshly roasted coffee. It had been resting 4 days, my preference. "Wow!" she says. "What's that coffee? It smells fantastic!" All winter, she never said a word about the coffee.


----------



## noboundaries

Well, turns out my last roast taking too long was more a problem of the side burner failing on my gas grill than too much coffee loaded in my colander. That rusted out gas grill is now useless....or so I thought! (No, I don't want to refurbish).

I picked up a single burner Camp Chef Pro 30 for $70 on Amazon using a gift card from one of my daughters.  It's main use will be for roasting coffee, but I can already see many other uses. The stove was delivered this morning. 

The wind was HOWLING off the Delta, but I NEEDED to roast coffee. As I started to put the leg extensions on the stove I got an idea. Ten minutes later I was roasting coffee and the wind was no problem at all. 1 pound of green Costa Rican coffee was roasted in 12 minutes, a little fast, but done.  Now comes the hard part, the 4 day rest for flavor development. The old gas grill was a perfect wind break! The new stove fits inside, connects to the bottle below, and acts as a cover with the lid mostly closed. I was going to give it away or take it to the dump, but I think I'll keep it around. I might get creative and move one of its ignitors to the new stove.

Now it's time to Weber some burgers! Ah, a good day!


----------



## tallbm

rexster314 said:


> Still turning and roasting on my grill. Winter didn't stop me, just had to be choosy on which days to roast. I continue to buy pure Kona and pure Jamaican Blue Mountain from Blue Macaw Coffee on ebay. I'm still using my old Kitchenaid Pro grinder that's 20 years old. Replaced the grinding plates last year.




I didn't watch the video (can't at work).
How are you measuring temps? (if you are at all)
How hot are you running your grill/flame when roasting?

I ask because I may be ready to roast another 1 pound batch here soon but trying to keep a consistent temp at around 430F for the beans resulted in baking the beans.  It took way too long so I believe my measuring approach with a laser gun thermometer was not accurate at all.

Thanks!


----------



## noboundaries

Oops. That wasn't addressed toward me. Ignore below.

Today, I ran the new stove at medium, which should be around 15,000 BTUs. I gave up on the infrared a while ago. Currently, I wedge a Maverick meat probe in my mesh colander inside the Dutch oven so it stays in the bottom of the colander. No problem with it moving as I shake the Dutch oven every 6 to 10 seconds to toss the beans around.

I've roasted coffee enough times now that I don't really pay attention to the temp any longer near the end of the roast. I recognise the sound of the transition between first and second crack. I let it go about 5 seconds then shut off the heat. I find myself watching the clock more than the Maverick as I listen to the roast.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Oops. That wasn't addressed toward me. Ignore below.
> 
> Today, I ran the new stove at medium, which should be around 15,000 BTUs. I gave up on the infrared a while ago. Currently, I wedge a Maverick meat probe in my mesh colander inside the Dutch oven so it stays in the bottom of the colander. No problem with it moving as I shake the Dutch oven every 6 to 10 seconds to toss the beans around.
> 
> I've roasted coffee enough times now that I don't really pay attention to the temp any longer near the end of the roast. I recognise the sound of the transition between first and second crack. I let it go about 5 seconds then shut off the heat. I find myself watching the clock more than the Maverick as I listen to the roast.



That is great input.  I'm using a spit with a cylindrical cage so we doing different approaches.  I have no problem going off of sound and feel I'm just trying to get into a ballpark of temp to know that I am hot enough to roast 1-1.5 pounds or so without going into backing territory.
I'm really trying to avoid losing another 1-2 pounds of beans due to trial and error lol.

I think once I can get into the ball park of a good temp doing it the spit way then I can play around with hotter or slightly cooler temps to stretch the cracks but right now I'm nowhere close to a proper roast trying to keep the roast temp at about 430F while temping the cage with my laser gun.

Any/all sensible ideas are very welcome :)


----------



## rexster314

tallbm said:


> I didn't watch the video (can't at work).
> How are you measuring temps? (if you are at all)
> How hot are you running your grill/flame when roasting?
> Thanks!



On my 6 burner I preheat the grill to 500-550. I have the adjustable speed motor sold on Amazon and begin spinning the beans. At this time I also turn down the middle 2 burners directly under the roasting drum. I won't open the lid till around the 12 minute mark, slow the rotating speed to slow, and check the color of the beans then turn up the speed again. At the 14-15 minute mark I usually get the first crack going. Since I mostly do Kona or Blue Mountain, I'll pull the beans out when the first crack subsides, pour them out, do the 2 bowl sifting of the husks, then pour out on a tray to cool.


----------



## tallbm

rexster314 said:


> On my 6 burner I preheat the grill to 500-550. I have the adjustable speed motor sold on Amazon and begin spinning the beans. At this time I also turn down the middle 2 burners directly under the roasting drum. I won't open the lid till around the 12 minute mark, slow the rotating speed to slow, and check the color of the beans then turn up the speed again. At the 14-15 minute mark I usually get the first crack going. Since I mostly do Kona or Blue Mountain, I'll pull the beans out when the first crack subsides, pour them out, do the 2 bowl sifting of the husks, then pour out on a tray to cool.



Thanks!  This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for.
I think I'll buy some good yet less expensive beans to play around with until I figure out my process for 1-1.5 pounds of roasting.

My new approach will be to preheat to about 550F or so.
Start the beans.
Turn down my middle burner some since it is directly under.
And check


----------



## ExclusiveBBQ

I just wanted to say how fantastic those beans look. I so badly want to try this myself but am not fortunate to have a glass barbecue (yet).

Maybe one day!


----------



## noboundaries

ExclusiveBBQ said:


> I just wanted to say how fantastic those beans look. I so badly want to try this myself but am not fortunate to have a glass barbecue (yet).
> 
> Maybe one day!



I suspect you meant gas BBQ, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Folks have been roasting coffee beans over an open fire in pans for millennia. A gas burner just makes it convenient. If I only had charcoal to use, I'd roast coffee over a charcoal fire. Heck, I just might give that a try at some point. Or you could beat me to it!

I'm going to roast beans this morning, but I'm still too giddy about my new single burner to try a charcoal fire. BUT, if I were to give charcoal a try, I'd fire up a half chimney of briquettes or lump, divide the hot coals between two charcoal baskets in my Weber, then take one of two approaches. First, I'd put a smaller grill grate directly on top of the charcoal baskets, put my pan with the green beans on top of that, and keep the beans moving until they reached the state I wanted. 

OR, I'd load the baskets up with hot briquettes until they came close to the grill grate, then add my pan with the green beans on top of that. I've always wanted to try charcoal, but new toys can just be so dang tempting!


----------



## noboundaries

As a side note, I can now roast up to 1 lb of green beans. Just the other day I saw an advertisement for a coffee roaster that handled 1 lb of beans. Price.....$8500! I thought...well, I can't print what I thought.

I've generally used what I had on hand to roast coffee. Until I bought the single burner stove recently, I'd only spent like $3 at the Goodwill and $20 on two stainless mesh colanders. So I added up everything I use and what it could cost on Amazon Prime if buying everything to roast coffee that exceeds in taste what you can buy in the specialty coffee shops.

$70 Single burner propane stove with regulator.
$30 Propane bottle
$30 Six or seven quart stainless Dutch oven
$15 Set of silicone microwave dish covers
$10 Stainless steel mesh colander, no handles, that fits inside the Dutch oven
$10 Stainless steel mesh colander with handles to use for cooling the beans and blowing away the chaff.
$10 Heat resistant gloves (1472F) for shaking the Dutch oven every 6-10 seconds.
$15 Tornado type fan (Honeywell) for cooling the roasted beans
$17 Wired thermometer for tracking rise in bean temp (optional if going by sound alone)
$0 Phone timer app or accessory.

$207 total. That's WAAAAAAY cheaper than $8500.

And, I still have an unused rotisserie unit on my defunct gas grill than I could adapt to my Weber if all else fails. And a garage full of charcoal.

Coffee roasting...what we won't do for our caffeine!


----------



## ExclusiveBBQ

noboundaries said:


> I suspect you meant gas BBQ, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Folks have been roasting coffee beans over an open fire in pans for millennia. A gas burner just makes it convenient. If I only had charcoal to use, I'd roast coffee over a charcoal fire. Heck, I just might give that a try at some point. Or you could beat me to it!
> 
> I'm going to roast beans this morning, but I'm still too giddy about my new single burner to try a charcoal fire. BUT, if I were to give charcoal a try, I'd fire up a half chimney of briquettes or lump, divide the hot coals between two charcoal baskets in my Weber, then take one of two approaches. First, I'd put a smaller grill grate directly on top of the charcoal baskets, put my pan with the green beans on top of that, and keep the beans moving until they reached the state I wanted.
> 
> OR, I'd load the baskets up with hot briquettes until they came close to the grill grate, then add my pan with the green beans on top of that. I've always wanted to try charcoal, but new toys can just be so dang tempting!



You're correct (I did mean "gas") but I hadn't considered charcoal. I do have a fire pit that would provide me easy access to roast beans using a small cast iron pan. I'm assuming that the beans are quite sensitive to heat, but it's easy to control temperature as long as you're stirring? Would you highly recommend the use of an IR thermometer or do you think going by sight/feel is good enough?

I'm a coffee lover so I find this all fascinating. :)


----------



## noboundaries

ExclusiveBBQ said:


> You're correct (I did mean "gas") but I hadn't considered charcoal. I do have a fire pit that would provide me easy access to roast beans using a small cast iron pan. I'm assuming that the beans are quite sensitive to heat, but it's easy to control temperature as long as you're stirring? Would you highly recommend the use of an IR thermometer or do you think going by sight/feel is good enough?
> 
> I'm a coffee lover so I find this all fascinating. :)



*Small, cast iron pan?* You can absolutely use a cast iron pan. Depending how deep it is, you might find beans splashing out of the pan. I started with a 4" deep saucepan, a wooden spatula, and an IR thermometer and got some great coffee. A wok would work, too, if you happen to have one. Even an old fashioned whirly-type popcorn popper.

*Sight/feel/sound?* You definitely go by sight/feel/sound, and it develops with experience. Sight and sound are most helpful. The difference between first crack (sounds like popcorn) and second crack (Rice Crispies cereal) is noticeable. Most coffees are finished toward the end of first crack just at the start of second crack. Watch a few YouTube videos for Pan Roasting Coffee, The Sound of Coffee's First and Second Crack, etc.

Heck, just this morning when I was roasting beans, I learned something new, and I have close to 100 roasts under my belt. I realized I need to dump the beans out of my roasting pan colander into the cooling colander  IMMEDIATELY upon removing the heat. I was getting some blackened beans that were resting on the bottom as I secured the gas.

Use what you got and give it a try! It's as addictive as grilling and smoking!


----------



## tallbm

ExclusiveBBQ said:


> You're correct (I did mean "gas") but I hadn't considered charcoal. I do have a fire pit that would provide me easy access to roast beans using a small cast iron pan. I'm assuming that the beans are quite sensitive to heat, but it's easy to control temperature as long as you're stirring? Would you highly recommend the use of an IR thermometer or do you think going by sight/feel is good enough?
> 
> I'm a coffee lover so I find this all fascinating. :)



Hi there and welcome!

I bought an electric "hot plate", a skillet, wooden spoon, IR thermometer, and an oven mitt (for protecting the spoon/stirring hand) when I started goofing around with this.  I haven't done a ton of roasting but probably 10 roasts or so.

You want to be outside to do this stuff because of light smoke, roasting smell, and the chaff blowing around.
I don't recommend the electric hot plate but something like 1 pound propane/butane camp burner stove should be a MUCH better option.  Here is  15,000 BTU one that does either propane or butane that I'm guessing should work fine :)


You can do this! Best of luck :)


----------



## noboundaries

And the growth in knowledge continues. Coffee has something like 1500 flavor elements, but I've been getting a hint of a flavor I didn't care for. I knew it was due to roasting, brew extraction, or brew temp. I've played with them all and wasn't really able to eliminate the background flavor I didn't like...until I watched the above video. Bottom line, for my Clever Dripper cone coffee brewer, I was brewing the coffee too long, over-extracting the coffee. I cut my brew time for the grind size I use in the Dripper from 4 minutes to 1...and wow, did it make a difference. No hint of the sour flavor I dislike.

The above video is something like 1 hr 22 minutes long, but the last 20 minutes is basically a sales pitch for a training program. You can skip that part.

Continue roasting!!!!


----------



## noboundaries

I'm probably the only one who is still involved with this thread, but I'm continuing to learn after more than a hundred roasts. 

The other day I was roasting the last 16.4 oz of a 5 lb bag of green Ethiopian coffee. All my recent roasts were taking 14.5 to 16 minutes, on average, generally due to light winds. There was zero wind during my 16.4 oz roast and the roast finished in 12.5 mins.  I used all the same settings on my setup, so the wind made that much difference. Plus, the flavor was noticeably improved with the shorter time to reach my target (onset of second crack).  Guess I gotta build myself a windbreak.


----------



## rexster314

I'm still roasting my own coffee. I only do Jamaican Blue Mountain and Kona green beans. The basket I have can do 2 pounds easily, and the adjustable motor for the spit makes it even easier. Most of the time I take the beans past 1st crack and before second crack. Times for both are usually 15-17 minutes, but counting for the weather, it has taken up to 22 minutes to reach this point. When done, I will turn off burners and turn the motor to it's fastest speed, which knocks off a LOT of husk.


----------



## illini40

Good evening

I was directed to this thread, and I’ve read through all of the great info. Thank you!

I am really intrigued to try roasting some coffee.

A few questions I am hoping someone may be able to help me with:

1) I only have a Weber gas grill and a Traeger. Would I be able to use an 8” cast iron skillet or Dutch oven on either of these to roast?

2) Would the smoke from theTraeger do anything to the beans (good or bad)?

3) Any suggestions on what to look for in beans when ordering from Amazon?

If there are other threads or resources, please let me know. This is very interesting!


----------



## noboundaries

Illini40, welcome to a passion as addictive as smoking.

Answers to your questions.
1. Yes, you should be able to use either a cast iron skillet or Dutch oven. The DO would probably be better to keep from splashing beans out of the pan during the roast. If the Weber has a side burner, that would be ideal. If not, set the pan/DO between two burners turned to high to get enough heat. Not sure how it would work on the Traeger.

2. Some folks like smoked coffee. It has an interesting flavor profile with coffee.

3. I ordered beans off Amazon when I first started. Not all beans are the same. Elevation where the beans are grown makes a HUGE difference in roasted flavor.  I prefer beans grown at high altitudes of 1500-2200 meters. They tend to be fruity and sweet or cocoa and nutty.  Lower altitude beans typically have a lot of body, but not much complexity.

Anything from Africa works for me. Next is Central America. Lastly is South America and  Indonesia. 

I order from Sweet Maria's in Oakland, but you pay for shipping. They have a sampler for new bean roasters. Their website will give you a great education.

Below is 29 lbs worth of green beans. Five different African beans, plus one from El Salvador and one from Peru.


----------



## illini40

noboundaries said:


> Illini40, welcome to a passion as addictive as smoking.
> 
> Answers to your questions.
> 1. Yes, you should be able to use either a cast iron skillet or Dutch oven. The DO would probably be better to keep from splashing beans out of the pan during the roast. If the Weber has a side burner, that would be ideal. If not, set the pan/DO between two burners turned to high to get enough heat. Not sure how it would work on the Traeger.
> 
> 2. Some folks like smoked coffee. It has an interesting flavor profile with coffee.
> 
> 3. I ordered beans off Amazon when I first started. Not all beans are the same. Elevation where the beans are grown makes a HUGE difference in roasted flavor.  I prefer beans grown at high altitudes of 1500-2200 meters. They tend to be fruity and sweet or cocoa and nutty.  Lower altitude beans typically have a lot of body, but not much complexity.
> 
> Anything from Africa works for me. Next is Central America. Lastly is South America and  Indonesia.
> 
> I order from Sweet Maria's in Oakland, but you pay for shipping. They have a sampler for new bean roasters. Their website will give you a great education.
> 
> Below is 29 lbs worth of green beans. Five different African beans, plus one from El Salvador and one from Peru.
> 
> View attachment 425659



Thank you very much for the quick reply.

I ordered these from Amazon last night just to get some to start playing with. Do you think these may be OK?


Unfortunately, my Weber does not have a side burner. It is a two burner, and I’ll just have to try the skillet or DO on a grate, between the burners.

Is there a temp that you recommend getting the cast iron heated up to before adding the beans? I do have an IR thermometer.

Thanks again!


----------



## noboundaries

Columbian Supremo will have a familiar taste and is good for a starter roast.

I like to preheat my roasting vessel to 450-485F.


----------



## noboundaries

Illini40, how's the roasting going? Yea? Nay?


----------



## illini40

noboundaries said:


> Illini40, how's the roasting going? Yea? Nay?



Unfortunately, the beans I ordered are still sitting in the cabinet. I just haven’t made the time to try roasting them. Still on my radar as something I need to do!


----------



## noboundaries

All in due time. I find it a little harder to roast in the Winter.  Had a nice sunny day yesterday so banged out a pound of Ethiopian. The African beans are good to grind and  brew with minimal rest, like 8-12 hours. The Central America, South America, and Indonesian roasted beans, if grown in that 1000-1500 meter range, develop fully with a 2-4 day rest in my experience. The longer rest after roasting requires a tad more planning so I don't run out.


----------



## Ishi

After years of grinding beans I’m getting more and more picky on what brands I buy. These steps sound easy enough. Thanks for the thread and I’ll let you know how it goes if and when I try it.


----------



## noboundaries

You're welcome, Ishi. It is easy and beyond satisfying. Be careful, though, it can become obsessive. 

Like you, I ground my own store-bought roasted beans for decades. It was delicious, but never obsessive. Then I roasted my own beans. I immediately noticed a huge difference in the taste. With experience, I learned to recognize the flavor profiles and origins I love from the supplier's cupping descriptions (Sweet Maria's in Oakland, CA). That's when the obsession set in. I literally go to bed at night and imagine the taste of coffee in the morning. 

The Japanese have their tea ceremony. I have my morning coffee ceremony, doing pour-over 90% of the time. Heck, I have pour over Melitta cones older than my adult daughters. I haven't owned a coffee machine for decades. The other 10% of the time I brew coffee with one of three Italian moka pots. 

The obsession involves the roast level, grind level, grind amount, water temp, bloom time, proper stir method, and extraction time based on the grind level. I don't use any timers, just experience. And that first sip of coffee is pure nirvana. 

Like BBQ, a first roast is never perfect, but it reveals the possibilities.


----------



## noboundaries

I finished a 5 lb bag of green beans a few weeks ago that I absolutely HATED! It was mouth-puckering, sour-tasting, with a horrible aftertaste. I could make it palatable with a few brewing techniques too numerous to mention, but it was the first time in three years of coffee roasting I experienced such a negative response from my home roasted coffee. Sure, I've had a few less than great 5 lb bags, but could always improve the flavor by changing grind size or extraction time. I had to figure out the issue on this one coffee to avoid buying something similar in the future. 

One of the great things about Sweet Maria's coffee is they provide a _*flavor wheel*_ for each green coffee they sell. Whenever I order coffee, I always save a screen-shot of the flavor wheels in my order.  Below are the flavor wheels of a few coffees I absolutely loved and the single one (last shown) I hated. See the flavor element culprit? I will avoid ordering all coffees with that one character in the future. Sure, it's a personal preference. Some folks may love an element that strong, but not me. 

Coffees I loved.

















And the one I absolutely hated.


----------



## rexster314

ClaireCameron said:


> I've never heard of such a way to roast coffee. I will definitely have to try it!



We roast our own on our Kitchenaid grill about every two months


----------



## noboundaries

I'm up to roasting 22 ounces of green coffee with my current setup. Lasts me about 3 weeks max. Could probably get another 2-3 ounces of green coffee roasted but it wouldn't all fit in my storage container since roasted coffee expands in size. 

One thing I've started doing recently is stirring my hot roasted coffee in the roasting pan for 2 to 3 minutes before I stir it over a fan to cool. The hot stirring really evens out the color, especially if I'm blending coffees from different regions in the roasting pan.


----------



## bill1

Just discovering this thread...does anyone have experience with the $100 Chinese roasters? The small $20 rice cookers have certainly reduced my potato consumption! These aren't quite set-and-forget, and they're not quite $20 . You'll still need a fan and a couple colanders to deal with the chaff/husks afterwards, but it looks easier than the alternatives. There's popcorn poppers, but this thread has taught me importance of roast uniformity and the value of steady stirring.


----------



## noboundaries

bill1 said:


> does anyone have experience with the $100 Chinese roasters?


No experience, but Walmart has them on sale right now on their website for $66.64. For that price, Bill, you could become the Chinese roaster expert!


----------



## bill1

noboundaries said:


> ...Walmart has them on sale right now on their website for $66.64...


All I'm seeing is a $109 version that's 220Vac only.  Do you have a link?  I might seriously take the plunge.


----------



## noboundaries

Here you go. Comes up with a weird link. Deleted.


----------



## noboundaries

When I search Walmart Coffee Roaster the $66 one pops up on my phone.


----------



## bill1

noboundaries said:


> When I search Walmart Coffee Roaster the $66 one pops up on my phone.


I see a couple rotisserie drum-based units for that price but you still have to provide a burner for heat.  The one listing implies it would work with Sterno "canned heat" underneath.   

My gas grill rotisserie is a slow-turner (not ideal for coffee beans)  so this isn't a bad price for a basket and rotisserie if its a fast-turner...I could adapt it to my gas grill...would be a fun little project...but I don't want to do that much setup every 4 days when it's time to prepare another batch of coffee.  The all-electric stirred-pan-based ones (like in this link) require less than a cubic foot of storage space and only a half-hour total time commitment--like using a popcorn popper but with better/consistent quality.  

Then again, they make VERY small gas grills for apartments.  I could see a dedicated coffee roaster in my future...if only we had the patio space.  Alas my wife doesn't think a classy patio consists of a wide range of cooking gadgets.


----------



## noboundaries

bill1 said:


> only a half-hour total time commitment


I've watched a YouTube video on that coffee roaster.  30 minutes for a roast is about 10 minutes beyond the max I see recommended for the best flavor. Too slow a roast can create off-flavors from "baked coffee."

I found this online for baked coffee.   _Baked Coffee. This defect occurs when *coffee is heated for too long without reaching first crack*. You may hear this referred to as “stalling” the roast. Unfortunately, this defect is invisible. It results in a distinctive flat flavour with little sweetness, often described as bread-like or papery. Baked coffee is only recognisable by taste._

Edit: My roasts last between 11min and 15min total. Wind can push me out to 16-18 mins from heat loss.

The first crack (light popcorn popping sound) generally starts between 8-10 minutes. When I was pan-roasting only 8 oz of green coffee it was around 6 minutes.

The second crack (the sound of Rice Krispies when you add milk) is my indicator I'm about to stop the roast. I rarely go more than 5-15 seconds into the second crack.

You can easily start roasting coffee and learn A LOT, with an electric hot plate, a saucepan, and a wooden spoon to stir while roasting. Preheat your pan, add the green beans, start stirring, and hit the timer on your phone. You can see the color changes of the beans, see and hear the cracks, and easily decide when you're finished roasting.  Great coffee can be easily pan-roasted.


----------



## bill1

noboundaries said:


> ...30 minutes for a roast is about 10 minutes beyond the max...


I meant 30 minutes from the time I step out onto the patio (a couple times per week) to the time I step back in with finished product.  So I'd want that to include setup, preheat, de-chaff, cleanup, and packaging in addition to the actual roasting. 

Saturday I went free-range at Lowe's and found a cheap 18" wide gasser for $150 and a gorgeous SST one for $320...but when I brought up the idea of setting up a dedicated roasting area in our patio at a family gathering Sunday I received nothing but negative comments...even worse than most of my ideas receive.  Instead I was given some light-roast and directed to a local roaster...like I'm some crazy old Man...but what fun is that? 

So my roasting plans are on hold for a while until this negativity storm passes. 

Thanks Ray,  for sharing your general knowledge and in partic all your help to me personally.  I'll be baaaaaack.


----------



## browneyesvictim

Still home roasting here. It's all Ray's fault because of this thread. :-) Roasting about 2-3 lbs every three weeks between the wife and I.  In fact the Mrs. has kind of taken over on her own interest! Now she is picking the green beans and tuning the roast. She even set up a dedicated place for the roaster. What surprises me the most is, she is now drinking it black occasionally, There is no going back now! So I say to you  Bill... You might have better luck if you can first establish a "vested interest" in the quality of roasting with the good beans with your family members. 

When this Gene Cafe` roaster no longer works, I can see getting a larger one that can roast more than 1/2 lb batches at a time. I am real interested in- and will be watching- how well that Wal-Mart roaster works over a gas flame.


----------



## rexster314

Jamaican Blue Mountain I did yesterday on my gasser.


----------



## noboundaries

browneyesvictim said:


> Still home roasting here. It's all Ray's fault because of this thread. :-)


Thanks, Erik! Fun read with you and your wife. 



bill1 said:


> Thanks Ray, for sharing your general knowledge and in partic all your help to me personally. I'll be baaaaaack.



Looking forward to it, Bill. It'll happen. Like Erik said, if your wife is a coffee drinker, she'll taste the difference.


----------



## noboundaries

rexster314 said:


> Jamaican Blue Mountain I did yesterday on my gasser


Now THAT is a beautiful roast, Rex!


----------



## JLeonard

Ok i'll PM you my address and paypal ya for a 5lb bag......Lemme know when! Thats some good looking beans.
Jim


----------



## David Halcomb

Fascinating thread. I'm going to go back and read the entire thread soon.


----------



## noboundaries

I read recently that drought has impacted Robusta coffee bean production in certain key countries like Brazil. Prices are expected to go up as available supplies are consumed. Robusta companies will turn toward Arabica beans to fill their need. Now, I don't drink Robusta coffee, but better safe than sorry. Ordered another 20 lbs of my favorite flavor profiles from Sweet Maria's (all Arabica beans).  That's MY excuse anyway for buying more coffee. Feel free to use that excuse, no charge.


----------



## noboundaries

I'm sure many have ignored this long thread of mine, but I continually learn something new about brewing coffee. 

I generally brew my morning coffee using a pour-over technique into a Melitta cone or a Clever Dripper. I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, so making a pot of coffee is too much for little OLD me and my stomach. 

For the few years since I started roasting my own coffee, I noticed that I'd get a sour taste or aftertaste on occasion. The funny thing is that the same coffee didn't taste sour when brewed in a Moka pot. I chalked the sour taste up to either the coffee itself or the Melitta Cone/Clever Dripper. Nope. I recently learned it was my pour-over technique. I also learned the reason why it tasted sour and how to fix it.

Water extracts flavors from ground coffee by displacing carbon dioxide in the grounds. Guess what tastes sour if too much is left in the coffee? Carbon dioxide! 

When brewing with a pour-over technique, there are several pours required. First, wet the grounds to initiate the carbon dioxide "bloom." Wait about 30 seconds. Then do another small pour, and wait about 10-15 seconds. The coffee bubbles will be dark and quite large. Then do another small pour and repeat the wait. The bubbles get lighter in color and smaller.  Do another small pour, and the bubbles become lighter still. When the bubbles become almost white after a small pour, large holes appear in the bubble float. Gently stir the coffee and let it drain completely. 

By doing so, you've removed all the sour-tasting carbon dioxide.  Can you over-extract the coffee and get a dry, bitter taste? Yes. Learning the balance point to avoid that result is the fun of hands-on brewing. 

Or buy a coffee maker that does it all for you. 

Anecdotal thinking here, but I'm guessing that the reason most ground coffee sold in stores is allowed to age before being sold is that a lot of the carbon dioxide off-gasses in that time. No sour taste, but to me, it tastes flat. 

I'll post pics later of the bubbles if anyone is interested. If not, this post gave me a break from writing my latest sci-fi novel.


----------



## bill1

noboundaries said:


> ...Carbon dioxide!...


I'm a pour-over guy too.  You bet I've seen the bubbles!  Guess I attributed it to the <74% close-packing of coffee grounds with air...so that was the air purging out.  But now that you mention it, it does seem to lessen the further the beans are from their roast date...negating my interstitial air theory and backing up your CO2 out-gassing theory.  
I'm a slow-pourer with the boiling water...trying to get more than 4 cups with my #4 filters!...but my approach has been to concentrate the pour over the areas the bubbles arise from--guess I just like popping the bubbles.  But I think if it's CO2 needing to be quickly dissipated to the atmosphere, that's ok by your theory, right?  
I'll have to see if I see any color changes in my bubbles...they've all seemed the same to me.  

Just btw, my daughter is loving pepper in her coffee now too.  I've settled on adding 1/8 tsp to the beans before grinding, so it's well mixed in the paper filter in the cone.  Plenty of pepper flavor with no sludge in the cup or pot.


----------



## EvenFlow87k

I am not sure why, but I did my first coffee roast tonight.  I tried to follow Ray's instructions as close as I could.   A couple things I learned as I did this.
     1)  I cannot use my good Royal Prestige SS pan.  It will not get above 350° in a reasonable amount of time. 
     2)  I need to run my burner full throttle with my Cuisinart pan otherwise it won't stay hot enough.
     3)  Move your head away from the sifter when you put it over the fan, lol.

Anyway, here's  the pictures 

My setup.  Had to change the pan though.
	

		
			
		

		
	








Stirring the pot, lol.
	

		
			
		

		
	







Cooling and covering my self with bean chaff.
	

		
			
		

		
	







The final product, and now I wait.
	

		
			
		

		
	







I will follow up with my first taste test.

Thanks for stopping by,
Jeremy


----------



## noboundaries

Great job, Jeremy! Looks like a fantastic start. Thanks for sharing the pics.  If you decide you like the result, you get pretty good at timing your roasts so you don't run out. I'll be roasting a batch myself tomorrow cause my last batch only has 3-4 days left.


----------



## noboundaries

With experience, you can skip the thermometer as long as your hearing is still good. I now roast completely by sound alone. I listen for the point where first crack (popping) is almost over and second crack (Rice Krispies sound) is just starting.  Then I turn off the heat and stir for a minute or two before moving it to the fan. By doing so, I knock more chaff off the beans. 

Another trick I've incorporated is tilting the fan, using two colanders, and SLOWLY pouring the hot beans thru the airflow from one colander to the other. Most of the chaff blows away instead on all over me! Then I tilt the fan flat and completely cool the beans. 

But, the baptism in chaff is something all new roasters learn to overcome.


----------



## tallbm

Hey 

 noboundaries
 have you ever roasted a been and got like almost no chaff???

I havent roasted any in a long time but did some green Jamaican Blue Mountain beans I bought online and virtually no chaff!!!
I got a little bit when I was was airing them out in the colander but not much.

I roasted 8oz in about 10 min to get a dark roast and I know my heat was a little hot but nothing seemed out of the ordinary except no chaff.

Any thoughts?  I'll get reports on how they taste in weeks time or so from my taster since I don't drink coffee :D


----------



## noboundaries

Interesting. I've never roasted Jamaican beans, but I've also never had chaff-free roasted beans. I have roasted every 2-3 weeks for the last several years (20 ounces per roast). 

A couple questions come to mind.
1. Did they increase in size (40% to 100%) during the roast?
2. Since you took them to a dark roast, did you hear the first and second crack?


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Interesting. I've never roasted Jamaican beans, but I've also never had chaff-free roasted beans. I have roasted every 2-3 weeks for the last several years (20 ounces per roast).
> 
> A couple questions come to mind.
> 1. Did they increase in size (40% to 100%) during the roast?
> 2. Since you took them to a dark roast, did you hear the first and second crack?


1. Yep they increased in size as usual, see here:






2. Yes I heard first crack and some first crack was mixing with 2nd crack.  I think this was cause my heat was a bit high but I heard lots of first crack and then plenty of 2nd crack as well as roasting continued.  
I was doing this with skillet and a wooden spoon over a propane grill burner.  
I saw the color of the roast and the oils coming and knew I was at it around a total of 10 min and decided to pull the roast.

The beans never seen burnt or smelled burnt. I wonder if the high heat obliterated the chaff as it was roasting or maybe these particular beans just didn't have much. No clue but it was definitely not like my roasts before in regards to chaff lol.


----------



## noboundaries

I read in one source that too high a heat can cause the chaff to burn up. But, honestly, no idea. It will be interesting when they are brewed. Coffee that is roasted too fast and hot can taste bitter and acidic. 

I took a chaff shower with my batch last week. It is a Peruvian coffee from Sweet Maria's and so good. One of my all-time favorites. Bought it more than a year ago, though, so probably not available now.


----------



## Hockeydudde

Do you know how they were processed?
Natural process beans tend to have less chaff than dry process beans because if the fermentation process.

Also new-ish to the forum. Didn't know there was a coffee roasting cross over here. Love it!

Wanted to try smoking/roasting over coals many times, but never gave it a shot yet.


----------



## noboundaries

Hockeydudde said:


> Do you know how they were processed?
> Natural process beans tend to have less chaff than dry process beans because if the fermentation process.
> 
> Also new-ish to the forum. Didn't know there was a coffee roasting cross over here. Love it!
> 
> Wanted to try smoking/roasting over coals many times, but never gave it a shot yet.


HD, great point on the natural process results for chaff. Did not know that. I'll have to check my purchase history spreadsheet to see if I have any natural process beans. 

Happy to have another roaster aboard! And, yeah, if you can do it on your grill, we'll talk about it here. I've always used propane to roast coffee, but my bottles have been iffy after many 100°F+ days. Last week's batch was almost roasted over charcoal in the Vortex, but the bottle worked. 

If you roast over charcoal, share your experience here. 

Happy roasting, 

Ray


----------



## Hockeydudde

We are currently drinking Indian Monsoon Malabar, which is essentially left in an open air warehouse during the monsoons in India, aging it in a unique way. One result is there is no chaff remaining.


----------



## noboundaries

Hockeydudde said:


> We are currently drinking Indian Monsoon Malabar, which is essentially left in an open air warehouse during the monsoons in India, aging it in a unique way. One result is there is no chaff remaining.


Excellent post! Thanks for sharing. I've never tried beans from that part of the world. I'll definitely research that area.


----------



## noboundaries

Indian Monsooned Malabar
					

The Indian Monsooned Malabar is a very low acidity, thick & creamy, overly earthy style cup of coffee. A lot of sweet tones in this cup.




					burmancoffee.com
				




Found the above, and CRAP! It's on sale. I can't resist a green coffee sale. I buy 5 lbs at a time, and have 35 lbs in the cabinet. Time to get creative to explain why I need this coffee.

It's out of stock at Sweet Maria's, but the flavor wheels tell a great story. 









						India Monsoon Malabar AA
					

Best in the darker roast levels or as a blend application. Earthy, pungent roast tones, with some sweet/bittersweet sugars. A fairly low-sweetness coffee, and has toasted grain and nut flavors that hint at barley, roasted corn, and more. Its strength is body, and will make an interesting cup for...




					www.sweetmarias.com


----------



## tallbm

Hockeydudde said:


> Do you know how they were processed?
> Natural process beans tend to have less chaff than dry process beans because if the fermentation process.
> 
> Also new-ish to the forum. Didn't know there was a coffee roasting cross over here. Love it!
> 
> Wanted to try smoking/roasting over coals many times, but never gave it a shot yet.



There was no mention of how it was processed.  It's funny I did a little searching on the topic last night before reading this and found where people said the processing method can greatly affect the amount of chaff which makes sense.

I'd bet money this is the case because I had almost no chaff and what I did have was bits of chaff not any whole skins.

This gives a whole other area for you more serious roasters to dabble in.  Imagine having an amazing quality bean and coffee but basically no chaff when roasting!!!
Sounds like an interesting concept to explore :D


----------



## Hockeydudde

Hockeydudde said:


> Do you know how they were processed?
> Natural process beans tend to have less chaff than dry process beans because if the fermentation process.
> 
> Also new-ish to the forum. Didn't know there was a coffee roasting cross over here. Love it!
> 
> Wanted to try smoking/roasting over coals many times, but never gave it a shot yet.


Probably a pretty low care ratio here, but I just realized I misspoke above. Dry and natural process are the same/similar. Wet processed/washed will generally have less chaff than dry/natural.
Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## tallbm

So the taste test was done today and the results... the best coffee she has ever had!

I tell you what, if this is wet processed and it removed all the chaff for me then I'll be going this route from here on out.  

I've only made a few pounds total over the past few years but when I do make it I'll try and keep it as efficient as possible.

Glad to see I've got a winner and I just really went off sound of pops this time so I'll keep it going.  Even if there were still some first cracks overlapping with the second cracks.  I'll listen and get this darker color and know that's when I'm done to try and replicate this roast.

That's my input for the moment :D


----------



## noboundaries

tallbm said:


> So the taste test was done today and the results... *the best coffee she has ever had!*
> 
> I tell you what, if this is wet processed and it removed all the chaff for me then I'll be going this route from here on out.



There's no better compliment, TBM.

Below are coffees in my spreadsheet from 2021 that are labeled "Wet Processed." I don't recall less chaff, but I wasn't looking for it.

Central AmericaEl SalvadorBalsamo-Quezaltepec, Municipality NejapaSHGFinca El CipresWet process, Patio Sun-driedAfricaBurundiMururui Hill in Sogestal Kayanza Northern BurundiA1Dusangirijambo Co-opWet Processed, sun dried raised bedsCentral AmericaEl SalvadorBalsamo-Quezaltepec, Municipality NejapaSHGFinca El CipresWet process, Patio Sun-driedCentral AmericaEl Salvador19.45 oz Balsamo-Quezaltepec, Municipality Nejapa + 2.55 oz Ataco, AhuachapanSHGFinca El CipresWet process, Patio Sun-driedCentral AmericaEl SalvadorAtaco, AhuachapanSHGFinca Villa Maria (Dona Maria Alcira Celis)Wet Processed,Patio Sun-dried

Hmm. Guess I'm going to have to play closer attention to my chaff showers. Below is what I have left in green "cherries." I typically roast one coffee at a time, unless I don't care for one, then I mix it with something else. None are labeled "wet processed."

South AmericaPeruHuabalSHBJaen GranjerosMechanically Washed, Sun DriedCentral AmericaCosta RicaDota, TarrazuSHBEl ConquistadorMechanically Washed, Sun DriedSouth AmericaBrazilLambari, Minas GeraisEstateAmecafe CooperativeDry Process (natural), patio sun-driedSouth AmericaBrazilCerrado MineiroEstatePatroncinio Ricardo VagneDry Process (natural), patio sun-driedMexicoMexicoSierra Madre de ChiapasSHGCoop FarmingMechanically Washed, Sun DriedSouth AmericaPeruEl Paraiso Yoner ArevaloSHBYoner AreveloMechanically Washed, Sun Dried


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> There's no better compliment, TBM.
> 
> Below are coffees in my spreadsheet from 2021 that are labeled "Wet Processed." I don't recall less chaff, but I wasn't looking for it.
> 
> Central AmericaEl SalvadorBalsamo-Quezaltepec, Municipality NejapaSHGFinca El CipresWet process, Patio Sun-driedAfricaBurundiMururui Hill in Sogestal Kayanza Northern BurundiA1Dusangirijambo Co-opWet Processed, sun dried raised bedsCentral AmericaEl SalvadorBalsamo-Quezaltepec, Municipality NejapaSHGFinca El CipresWet process, Patio Sun-driedCentral AmericaEl Salvador19.45 oz Balsamo-Quezaltepec, Municipality Nejapa + 2.55 oz Ataco, AhuachapanSHGFinca El CipresWet process, Patio Sun-driedCentral AmericaEl SalvadorAtaco, AhuachapanSHGFinca Villa Maria (Dona Maria Alcira Celis)Wet Processed,Patio Sun-dried
> 
> Hmm. Guess I'm going to have to play closer attention to my chaff showers. Below is what I have left in green "cherries." I typically roast one coffee at a time, unless I don't care for one, then I mix it with something else. None are labeled "wet processed."
> 
> South AmericaPeruHuabalSHBJaen GranjerosMechanically Washed, Sun DriedCentral AmericaCosta RicaDota, TarrazuSHBEl ConquistadorMechanically Washed, Sun DriedSouth AmericaBrazilLambari, Minas GeraisEstateAmecafe CooperativeDry Process (natural), patio sun-driedSouth AmericaBrazilCerrado MineiroEstatePatroncinio Ricardo VagneDry Process (natural), patio sun-driedMexicoMexicoSierra Madre de ChiapasSHGCoop FarmingMechanically Washed, Sun DriedSouth AmericaPeruEl Paraiso Yoner ArevaloSHBYoner AreveloMechanically Washed, Sun Dried


Will be interesting if u can solve the mystery with some upcoming roasts :D


----------



## noboundaries

Yep. I'm going to add a "Chaff Level" to my spreadsheet to keep track.


----------



## BrianGSDTexoma

tallbm said:


> I bought 2 pounds of 100% ETHIOPIA YIRGACHEFFE GR1 naturally processed green beans.  I know I PM'ed you about it but wanted to go ahead and mention it here as well.  I'll give this a shot and share my experiences with everyone.  :)


Where you get them?


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Yep. I'm going to add a "Chaff Level" to my spreadsheet to keep track.


Nice, see below for the ones I bought.  The company is called Fus Light so I wonder if that means no fuss no chaff beans :P


BrianGSDTexoma said:


> Where you get them?


I got them on amazon here:

Not cheap but hey I get exactly what I was looking for and they are a gift so no biggy :)


----------



## noboundaries

I've found that shopping at Sweet Maria's is kinda like shopping at Costco: buy it when you see it or it might be gone the next time you look. They have Yirga Cheffe in stock. I'm smacking my hand away from ordering it because I've already got an 18 mo stock of other beans. The coffee below is wet processed.









						Ethiopia Yirga Cheffe Chelchele
					

Chelchele has sweetness akin to corn syrup and molasses that keeps the cup feeling substantial amidst a delicate floral top note, hints of peach, nectarine, star fruit, and some woody aromatic incense in the finish. City to Full City.




					www.sweetmarias.com


----------



## Hockeydudde

I was going to ask where you get your coffee. Sweet Maria's stock has been so sparse lately. 
A friend recommended I check out Happy Mug, but I haven't yet. I've only got about 4 lbs left and it's all espresso blend, so it's about time for me to order.


----------



## noboundaries

Hockeydudde said:


> I was going to ask where you get your coffee. Sweet Maria's stock has been so sparse lately.


Sweet Maria's in Oakland is only 90 miles as the crow flies from my house. Shipping is the same whether I order 5 lbs or 20 lbs. I generally order 15-20 lbs at a time of 5 lb bags of different coffees. 

Before the pandemic/supply chain issues I usually ordered when I was on my last 5 lb bag. Now I'll start looking for the flavor profiles I like when I'm down to 10-15 lbs. I'm over twice that amount. 

The flavor profiles and tasting wheels are what I use to make purchase decisions. Central and South America coffees generally fit what I like. But that Yirga Cheffe is singing to me. Dang.


----------



## Hockeydudde

noboundaries said:


> Sweet Maria's in Oakland is only 90 miles as the crow flies from my house. Shipping is the same whether I order 5 lbs or 20 lbs. I generally order 15-20 lbs at a time of 5 lb bags of different coffees.
> 
> Before the pandemic/supply chain issues I usually ordered when I was on my last 5 lb bag. Now I'll start looking for the flavor profiles I like when I'm down to 10-15 lbs. I'm over twice that amount.
> 
> The flavor profiles and tasting wheels are what I use to make purchase decisions. Central and South America coffees generally fit what I like. But that Yirga Cheffe is singing to me. Dang.


I ignored the yirg recommendation, because I also tend away from African coffees. Native I'll try it out they have it when I order.


----------



## noboundaries

Update on chaff from dry process coffee. I roasted the following coffee this morning:

BrazilLambari, Minas GeraisEstateAmecafe CooperativeDry Process (natural), patio sun-dried

Dry Process Chaff Result for the above coffee? Chaff shower. Also, it was BY FAR the worst roast consistency I've ever seen. WAAAAY too many "quakers" (beans that were picked too early and green. They don't roast worth a ----). The final roast level ranged from City to Light Vienna.

For those unfamiliar with roast levels, City is a lighter roast, Light Vienna a darker roast. There are five levels of roast from City to Light Vienna (City, City+, Full City, Full City+, Light Vienna). Normally I only see a difference of one or two levels when I roast coffee.

More confounding was there were almost no audible cracks. The sound of those cracks is what I use these days to tell me when the roast is complete. The first cracks (popcorn popping) I did hear sounded like second cracks (Rice Krispies). Man, oh man. That was one confusing roast.

We'll see how it tastes in a day or two.

Ray

Edit: That was my 13th roast this year. Figures. (Insert eerie music here)


----------



## fltsfshr

Fun reading this thread. I was in the specialty coffee business many years ago. There were only a few of us in it back then.  I sold the business and moved to Florida. Guy who bought it from me sold out to you know who. I'd love to find some Yemen Mocha or Blue Lintong. I still have my sample roaster and my blend notebook.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Update on chaff from dry process coffee. I roasted the following coffee this morning:
> 
> BrazilLambari, Minas GeraisEstateAmecafe CooperativeDry Process (natural), patio sun-dried
> 
> Dry Process Chaff Result for the above coffee? Chaff shower. Also, it was BY FAR the worst roast consistency I've ever seen. WAAAAY too many "quakers" (beans that were picked too early and green. They don't roast worth a ----). The final roast level ranged from City to Light Vienna.
> 
> For those unfamiliar with roast levels, City is a lighter roast, Light Vienna a darker roast. There are five levels of roast from City to Light Vienna (City, City+, Full City, Full City+, Light Vienna). Normally I only see a difference of one or two levels when I roast coffee.
> 
> More confounding was there were almost no audible cracks. The sound of those cracks is what I use these days to tell me when the roast is complete. The first cracks (popcorn popping) I did hear sounded like second cracks (Rice Krispies). Man, oh man. That was one confusing roast.
> 
> We'll see how it tastes in a day or two.
> 
> Ray
> 
> Edit: That was my 13th roast this year. Figures. (Insert eerie music here)



So I did another 8 ounces of this roast and saw more chaff than I did the first time.  The first time I did it just after dark and this time I did it in broad daylight.
It still was little chaff that I bet I was able to easily blew 90% of it out while just roasting in the skillet with a wood spoon.
So little that I didnt even bother trying to remove more chaff when I went to cool in a colander over a fan.

In the past with different beans I had to remove plenty chaff while cooling in the colander.  Not this specific bean and brand though.
I have another pound to fool with but I likely wont do any roasting on it for 3 weeks or so, if even then.
I have my yearly deer/hog hunt coming up in early October and the hunt + processing will take priority over any bean roasting I may think of.  Plus my girlfriend has to finish the fresh 8oz I just handed her a few days ago and she doesn't drink through it too fast at all.


----------



## noboundaries

noboundaries said:


> Man, oh man. That was one confusing roast.
> 
> We'll see how it tastes in a day or two.


Well, tasted pretty dang great. Wasn't expecting that. Nice surprise.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Well, tasted pretty dang great. Wasn't expecting that. Nice surprise.


Nice!!!


----------



## fltsfshr

There are a lot of different ways to brew coffee. Chemex was my favorite hand pour drip.
Couple thoughts on brewing. Always start with cold water and bring it up just to a boil. It retains more oxygen that way. Best water temp for brewing is 188 degrees.  Use enough coffee per 6 oz cup.  If you use to little it will be bitter as flavor washes out first and oils and waxes second. If you see an oil slick in your cup it's either from brewing too hot or the beans were old. There are now makers that allow you set your bloom time, your brewing temp very accurately. Breville makes a great one.


----------



## Retired Spook

fltsfshr said:


> Fun reading this thread. I was in the specialty coffee business many years ago. There were only a few of us in it back then.  I sold the business and moved to Florida. Guy who bought it from me sold out to you know who. I'd love to find some Yemen Mocha or Blue Lintong. I still have my sample roaster and my blend notebook.


When I was a youngster I used to drive 18-wheelers and I would pick up trailer loads of 180-lb burlap sacks of green coffee (loaded and unloaded by hand with coffee hooks - a 2-man job) from the Brooklyn piers and then deliver it to - ready for this? - Duncan Donuts' coffee roasting facility in NJ.

Now, I know Duncan Donuts was not, and is not, gourmet or specialty coffee, and never will be, but I got to see the entire roasting, blending and tasting process first hand. The smell of roasting coffee is addictive.

Later in life (after a much needed career change) I got a part time job in a Starbucks in Seattle circa 1991 (before Starbucks was famous) to fill in some unused time, and I learned how to make perfect espresso on a real espresso machine (they use robots now). I even became a secret shopper for them!

Now, I use a Melita pour over and a coarser grind of Colombian Supremo! 

Back in the day it was possible to buy some excellent coffees but these days I've become cynical and skeptical - everything is marketing and jacked-up prices.


----------



## noboundaries

My stomach can't handle black coffee anymore after drinking it for decades. I need creamer to tame it. Throw in lactose intolerance, and creamer options are limited. I was using a lite coconut milk for years and then realized quite recently it was causing a different set of inflammation problems. I'm not giving up coffee, especially since I have 40 lbs of green Arabica beans to roast. 

I just started experimenting with creamers. The first one tried was Silk Almond creamer. Too sweet and tastes like Irish Cream, which was a surprise, a pleasant one. I did a 50-50 mix of the creamer and Kirkland Canadian whiskey over ice, and it tasted EXACTLY like the cheaper Irish Creams. I'll remember that little experiment when the holidays arrive. It hides the coffee flavors, though, so the search continues.

I am going to try an Oat Milk creamer next. 

Friggin' stomach.  

I'm open to suggestions. 

Ray


----------



## fltsfshr

There's a coffee out there that is very low in acid. Maragogipie. Very large bean. Mild, slightly woody. You might try that. Sometimes it's called elephant bean. Good stuff comes from Nicaragua, Costa Rica down that way.


----------



## noboundaries

fltsfshr said:


> There's a coffee out there that is very low in acid. Maragogipie. Very large bean. Mild, slightly woody. You might try that. Sometimes it's called elephant bean. Good stuff comes from Nicaragua, Costa Rica down that way.


I'll have to try and find it. Thanks°


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> My stomach can't handle black coffee anymore after drinking it for decades. I need creamer to tame it. Throw in lactose intolerance, and creamer options are limited. I was using a lite coconut milk for years and then realized quite recently it was causing a different set of inflammation problems. I'm not giving up coffee, especially since I have 40 lbs of green Arabica beans to roast.
> 
> I just started experimenting with creamers. The first one tried was Silk Almond creamer. Too sweet and tastes like Irish Cream, which was a surprise, a pleasant one. I did a 50-50 mix of the creamer and Kirkland Canadian whiskey over ice, and it tasted EXACTLY like the cheaper Irish Creams. I'll remember that little experiment when the holidays arrive. It hides the coffee flavors, though, so the search continues.
> 
> I am going to try an Oat Milk creamer next.
> 
> Friggin' stomach.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions.
> 
> Ray


Not sure but u can buy lactose free whole milk to avoid that part. It's not creamer but something :)


----------



## noboundaries

tallbm said:


> Not sure but u can buy lactose free whole milk to avoid that part. It's not creamer but something :)


Thanks, TBM. Tried it. That's all we drink, or I should say, that's all my wife drinks. 

BUT, because of your suggestion, I looked up lactose-free half and half, plus lactose free heavy cream that isn't coconut milk. BOTH EXIST! Who knew? (Insert head-smack DOH! here). Definitely gonna find them and try them. Thanks again.


----------



## Hockeydudde

No creamer suggestions, but low acid coffee options.
The Indian monsoon malabar coffee I mentioned a few weeks back also happens to be very low acid. Don't know if that would make a difference.
If you've never tried a cold brew method, that is supposed to help with stomach issues.
On the crazier end of the spectrum, I've heard of people putting a pinch of baking soda and salt in the grinds when brewing, again to help reduce acidity.


----------



## noboundaries

Hockeydudde said:


> No creamer suggestions, but low acid coffee options.
> The Indian monsoon malabar coffee I mentioned a few weeks back also happens to be very low acid. Don't know if that would make a difference.


Thanks, HD. I did look up that coffee at the time it was mentioned. Can't remember my thoughts. I'll have to look it up again.



Hockeydudde said:


> If you've never tried a cold brew method, that is supposed to help with stomach issues.



I have made cold brew but treated it like regular coffee. I'll give it a try again without creamer. Thanks for the suggestion.

I occasionally make a Mexican Kahlua to give as Christmas gifts. Was going to do so again this year and recently bought 5 lbs of green Mexican beans for that process. The coffee I make it with is cold brewed.



Hockeydudde said:


> On the crazier end of the spectrum, I've heard of people putting a pinch of baking soda and salt in the grinds when brewing, again to help reduce acidity.


Yeah, that's one of the first things I tried long ago. Have you ever drank a flat coke or Pepsi? It just tastes dead. Salt and/or baking soda does the same thing to coffee. I understand it helps make Robusta coffee more palatable, but it completely neutralizes Arabica coffee. 

Definitely going to start a batch of cold brew today. Thanks again!


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Thanks, TBM. Tried it. That's all we drink, or I should say, that's all my wife drinks.
> 
> BUT, because of your suggestion, I looked up lactose-free half and half, plus lactose free heavy cream that isn't coconut milk. BOTH EXIST! Who knew? (Insert head-smack DOH! here). Definitely gonna find them and try them. Thanks again.


Awesome!  Also another "fat" option that is not coconut oil and is lactose free is Cocoa Butter.  Just get the food grade not the cosmetic grade.  Same stuff but one is prepped in a safe way to eat, the other is not :)

Yep, I'm talking about the stuff that is used to make chocolate and comes from the Cocoa Bean.

Additionally, roasted cocoa bean and cocoa butter taste very close to coffee but instead is more of a chocolate profile.  They are close cousins where cocoa takes better to being sweetened it seems :)

I hope this also helps with some options :D


----------



## tallbm

Also for lower acid, will a dark roast cook away the acid that exists in lighter beans.
I ask because of the simple notion that the darker beans taste less acidic than lighter roasts.
Seems that the longer darker roasting process may simply burn away acids.  

This idea passes the plausibility test in my head, I guess a real world taste test of a bean that is giving you acid issues will tell.  Just a thought :)


----------



## noboundaries

tallbm said:


> Also for lower acid, will a dark roast cook away the acid that exists in lighter beans.


Interesting question. I know for a fact that darker roasts reduce caffeine, but I'll have to research the acid question. 

I try to limit my roasts to Full City+/Light Vienna. I used to like darker roasts, then I started roasting my own coffee. Now, I taste burnt beans when I roast more dark to Vienna or Italian.


----------



## noboundaries

Answer: Dark Roasts - a study published in 2010 found that dark roast coffee is easier on the stomach than light roasts because it produces an ingredient that prevents hydrochloric acid from building up in the stomach. Cold Brew - brewing coffee using the cold brew method has been shown to increase the pH level of coffee.Mar 3, 2018

And a simpler answer: *Dark roast coffees tend to be less acidic* because they contain fewer compounds that cause stomach cells to produce acid.Oct 8, 2021

Gotta roast some more coffee today or tomorrow to make cold brew.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Answer: Dark Roasts - a study published in 2010 found that dark roast coffee is easier on the stomach than light roasts because it produces an ingredient that prevents hydrochloric acid from building up in the stomach. Cold Brew - brewing coffee using the cold brew method has been shown to increase the pH level of coffee.Mar 3, 2018
> 
> And a simpler answer: *Dark roast coffees tend to be less acidic* because they contain fewer compounds that cause stomach cells to produce acid.Oct 8, 2021
> 
> Gotta roast some more coffee today or tomorrow to make cold brew.



Wow nice work done on the research!

Do I foresee you doing some fun experiments where you try to craft a better tasting, less acidic dark roast.
Also separate cold brew experiments.

Then finally, the magic combo of dark roast cold brew?!?!?!? :D

This also reminds me of how people say "All bacon smoke flavor tastes the same" and my findings were that this is only true when you fry your bacon crispy (cook the hell out of it).
HOWEVER, if you smoke your bacon to an IT of 145F and slice and eat like sandwich meat, OR you lightly fry to have soft bacon, you can TOTALLY taste the differences in smoke flavors!

I discovered those experiments on my own during my bacon making/learning.  This dark roast/acid/burnt flavor situation sounds very similar.

I'm in to see what you may tinker with :D


----------



## bill1

just getting caught up...  I know you love coffee Ray so I'm bummed out to hear of your new limitations.  Hope you find a good/palpable solution, no pun intended.

And not to rub salt in the wound, but you taught me to add fine ground pepper to my pour-over...Any chance part of your negative reaction could be due to _that_?  Either the pepper itself or its reaction with other complex coffee chemicals?


----------



## noboundaries

bill1 said:


> And not to rub salt in the wound, but you taught me to add fine ground pepper to my pour-over...Any chance part of your negative reaction could be due to _that_? Either the pepper itself or its reaction with other complex coffee chemicals?


Nope. That's definitely not an issue.  I often forget the black pepper when I get busy. Thanks for asking, and I'm glad you're still peppering your coffee. So good.


----------



## Hockeydudde

noboundaries
 , good to know I don't need to try adding baking soda , but now I have to try black pepper?! Lol.

With my most recent order I got 1 lb of robusta just to play around with. Maybe I'll try a dalmatian rub on the beans. What binder do you think I should use?


----------



## noboundaries

Hockeydudde said:


> good to know I don't need to try adding baking soda , *but now I have to try black pepper?! *Lol.


Careful. You might get hooked. Many have.


----------



## noboundaries

After doing a little research on lactose-free milk/half 'n half/cream, you're not going to believe the experiment I'm trying. Just started like 5 minutes ago. I need 24-48 hours to see if it works. 

Stay tuned!


----------



## fltsfshr

Get a nice fresh roast and make egg coffee. I prefer mine using the white only, some use the whole egg. Bring the water up to a boil, turn the heat off. Wait a half minute or so and add the coffee and the egg white or mix the  egg white into the grounds  and add it to the water. When the coffee blooms it will rise to the top. After it steeps, pour a little cool water on it and the grounds will sink to the bottom. Have a cup

An old fashioned stove top pot works great.


----------



## noboundaries

fltsfshr said:


> Get a nice fresh roast and make egg coffee. I prefer mine using the white only, some use the whole egg. Bring the water up to a boil, turn the heat off. Wait a half minute or so and add the coffee and the egg white or mix the  egg white into the grounds  and add it to the water. When the coffee blooms it will rise to the top. After it steeps, pour a little cool water on it and the grounds will sink to the bottom. Have a cup
> 
> An old fashioned stove top pot works great.


Never heard of Swedish egg coffee. Watched YouTube videos for Swedish and Scandivanian Egg coffee. I'm DEFINITELY trying it in the morning! Thanks for the suggestion. 

Ray


----------



## noboundaries

Nope. Couldn't wait to try it. Such a clean yet powerful tasting cup of coffee! I only had an espresso cup so I could sleep tonight. I'll put the rest in the fridge for an iced coffee in the morning, no creamer.

Fast. Easy. And quick cleanup. I can see playing with the extraction time and doses to perfect this for my taste.








Edit update next morning: Great taste. The body is tea-like, which is a bit too lite for me. Zero stomach issues this morning (MW reheat, not iced coffee). I will definitely make this from the egg whites each time I use egg yolks to make my own mayo. 

Absolutely added to my coffee brewing techniques.


----------



## bill1

Hmmm, never heard of this and I married a Swede.  
Most of the recipes seem to require yolk, whites, and even shell.  Perfect the recipe Folks, post it here, and save me the time.  "Smooth" is not something I'm looking for now, but it might be be some day so I'm keeping an open mind.  

I'd just add that undercooked eggs can make you sick so make sure that you add the rounds/egg paste to very hot water and ensure it stays >150F for the 2-3 minutes it steeps to kill the baddies.


----------



## TNJAKE

noboundaries said:


> My stomach can't handle black coffee anymore after drinking it for decades. I need creamer to tame it. Throw in lactose intolerance, and creamer options are limited. I was using a lite coconut milk for years and then realized quite recently it was causing a different set of inflammation problems. I'm not giving up coffee, especially since I have 40 lbs of green Arabica beans to roast.
> 
> I just started experimenting with creamers. The first one tried was Silk Almond creamer. Too sweet and tastes like Irish Cream, which was a surprise, a pleasant one. I did a 50-50 mix of the creamer and Kirkland Canadian whiskey over ice, and it tasted EXACTLY like the cheaper Irish Creams. I'll remember that little experiment when the holidays arrive. It hides the coffee flavors, though, so the search continues.
> 
> I am going to try an Oat Milk creamer next.
> 
> Friggin' stomach.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions.
> 
> Ray


I'm a black coffee drinker. I used to use creamers but stomach doesn't like the sugar. Wife has a sensitive stomach and switched to oat creamer last year and she loves it


----------



## fltsfshr

Bill That recipe was perfected years ago.  Cowboy egg coffee uses the shells. Personally I don't use the yolk. That goes in the flapjacks. Most Scandinavian coffees are a dark roast.  When you live out on the range populated by lots of Norweigans you learn these things.  Try a dark roast with it and see how smooth it is.


----------



## noboundaries

So, the experiment I referenced above.

I was researching how lactose-free milk, half n half, and cream was made. All they do is add lactase to the milk, then sell it for 50% to 100% more than regular milk. Well, heck, time for an experiment.

Cream has less lactose than milk. I had an unopened quart of cream in the fridge I was going to use to make mascarpone. Instead, I pulverized 10 lactase tablets (Costco) in a mortar, put the dust in a quart jar, added a little water, added the cream, stirred it to mix, and put it back in the fridge for at least 24 hours to let the lactase consume the lactose.

Result? It worked! I had a mug of coffee yesterday and had ZERO response.

That's two great ideas I got from this thread.


----------



## noboundaries

tallbm said:


> Hey
> 
> noboundaries
> have you ever roasted a been and got like almost no chaff???
> 
> I havent roasted any in a long time but did some green Jamaican Blue Mountain beans I bought online and virtually no chaff!!!
> I got a little bit when I was was airing them out in the colander but not much.
> 
> I roasted 8oz in about 10 min to get a dark roast and I know my heat was a little hot but nothing seemed out of the ordinary except no chaff.
> 
> Any thoughts?  I'll get reports on how they taste in weeks time or so from my taster since I don't drink coffee :D


Well, I have now roasted coffee and got almost no chaff. I just did two back-to-back Costa Rican coffee roasts to a lighter City+ level and got almost zero chaff. About to do a third roast (update:  no chaff for the third time). Stopped the roasts about halfway through the first crack.

Three weeks ago I roasted the same green beans to a Full City/Full City+ level and took a chaff shower.

Interesting.


----------



## fltsfshr

Coffee beans come in a cherry. Depending on the ripeness of the cherry makes a difference in the chaff. Coffee is hand picked. The reason it has a flat side is that is a cherry off a female coffee plant. If you get a round one (peaberry) that's a male plant. The chaff difference depends on the ripeness of the cherry and the method used to extract and dry it from the bean. The original Blue Mountain field is owned by Sangsters. They make Tia Maria. It was almost impossible to buy. In the 80's I could get $35 to $45 a pound for it roasted. 

The name Blue Mountain is now attributed to an area and marketed that way. If you have real Blue Mountain it has a distinct chocolate taste and is so mild you have to brew it with almost double the amount of coffee you would normally use. What you probably have was called High Mountain which refers to the growing area around the original plantation. Real Blue Mountain if you can actually find it is probably around $70+ a pound or more.  Buy a bottle of Tia Maria put it an cordial glass and hold it in your hand for awhile. It's called Tia Maria up at blood. (your body temp).  Find that taste in coffee you got it.


----------



## tallbm

noboundaries said:


> Well, I have now roasted coffee and got almost no chaff. I just did two back-to-back Costa Rican coffee roasts to a lighter City+ level and got almost zero chaff. About to do a third roast (update:  no chaff for the third time). Stopped the roasts about halfway through the first crack.
> 
> Three weeks ago I roasted the same green beans to a Full City/Full City+ level and took a chaff shower.
> 
> Interesting.


Such interesting stuff aye hahaha.  I have half a pound I need to roast and get out of the way.  This would be a way lighter roast than I normally do so I'll see what happens :)


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## Hockeydudde

Had never heard of Blue Mountain.
Found it listed for $78/lb. And if you consider your supposed to use twice your normal amount, that's effectively $150 /lb.
I LOVE coffee. But next time I've got that kinda cash burning a whole in my pocket... I'm buying waygu. And if it happens again... Still waygu. Lol.

If someone finds green beans for sale though, if be interesting in getting as a gift for someone assuming they are much cheaper.

Edit: found it a few places. Green beans $35 - $42 /lb. Still to rich for my blood.


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## noboundaries

Hockeydudde said:


> Blue Mountain.
> Found it listed for $78/lb. And if you consider your supposed to use twice your normal amount, that's effectively $150 /lb.


Wow! And I thought the honey process and Yirga Cheffe coffees were expensive at $8‐$10/lb.


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## fltsfshr

Here's a bit coffee smarts.
If roasters seal the beans in nitrogen they do not oxidize. That's often used commercially.
If you buy roasted beans in the store, take the bag and squeeze it. Roasted coffee produces gas after roasting.  That's why there is a one way valve on the bag. If you smell any indication of caramel don't buy it. If there is no smell, don't buy it. If the bag shows no inflation don't buy it.
If you see an oil on the bottom of the beans they're stale.  The best way to keep a bag of roasted coffee beans is frozen. Grind it frozen and put the bag back in the freezer. Cold slows down the oxidation. If you see an oil sheen on your cup of coffee you either didn't use enough or your brewing temp was too high.
If you are roasting green beans let them sit a while and cool before you grind them. That lets the chemical process occurring from the roast finish.  I usually put them in a wire strainer and blow a fan on them. The darker the roast 1 pop vs 2 pop the more oil will appear on the bean. 
There is an art to coffee. Coffee tasters are like wine tasters. Sip and spit. That's how they insure a similarity in blends. They make big bucks but they don't sleep well. :)


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## TripleLindy

I just now found this thread and haven’t read every entry, but in skimming, I didn’t see anyone using a rotisserie with a Napoleon basket. Since many professional roasters use a drum, a rotisserie basket seems natural. Any thoughts?


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## noboundaries

There are a few posts in this thread where folks are using rotisserie and basket. It works fine. Just gotta dial in your RPMs and heat. 

I've got an old rotisserie for a defunct gas grill. The attachment parts have disappeared. One of these days I'll build one for the Weber. Until then, I've got my current hands-on setup all dialed in.


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## Hockeydudde

I have a behmore roaster, which is essentially a infrared heater with a drum on a rotisserie.
My dream is a rotisserie over a wood or charcoal fire. But it's pretty low on the priority list for me at this point.


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## noboundaries

noboundaries said:


> My stomach can't handle black coffee anymore after drinking it for decades.


Turns out it was a medication causing all my stomach and gut problems. Changed meds and now enjoying black coffee again!


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## Hockeydudde

What coffee did you celebrate with?


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## noboundaries

Costa Rica Dota El Conquistador!   

After the med change, I noticed huge problems going away. Decided to try no creamer. First 20 oz roast was a Full City-FC+ roast. Mmmm mmmm good.  

Second 20 oz roast was a Light Vienna, which was a bit too dark for those beans. I roast everything by sound alone these days. That morning it was windy, recess in the elementary school close by, and the dog next door barked constantly at squirrels in the trees. When a quiet moment occurred, all I heard was Rice Krispies. Ruh oh. 

That brings me to the three 20 oz, same day, City+ roasts this week. Two are gifts. I pour-over brewed a mug for me this morning after a two day rest. Ahhhh, so good.


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## Hockeydudde

noboundaries said:


> Costa Rica Dota El Conquistador!
> 
> After the med change, I noticed huge problems going away. Decided to try no creamer. First 20 oz roast was a Full City-FC+ roast. Mmmm mmmm good.
> 
> Second 20 oz roast was a Light Vienna, which was a bit too dark for those beans. I roast everything by sound alone these days. That morning it was windy, recess in the elementary school close by, and the dog next door barked constantly at squirrels in the trees. When a quiet moment occurred, all I heard was Rice Krispies. Ruh oh.
> 
> That brings me to the three 20 oz, same day, City+ roasts this week. Two are gifts. I pour-over brewed a mug for me this morning after a two day rest. Ahhhh, so good.


El Conquistador! A fitting name.


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