# Youngest Son's BB Bacon and "Red Spots" on cured meat



## pops6927 (Feb 12, 2012)

Youngest son came over a week and a half ago with a pork butt and he boned it out, split it and butterflied the clods and made up his brine, putting it in a 2.5 gal. Rubbermaid container and into the back fridge.  

Today is the day to smoke, so I wanted to document the curing portion and a question I often get; rotating the meat.

You do not have to alter the position of the meat once it is immersed in the brine.  The parts that touch one another are still getting fully cured through the meat; the brine immersion still allows the brine to seep into the meat even though the surfaces are touching.  Here is the container as it has sat in the fridge from the day it was put in there; no agitation, movement or shaking of it at all








Here it is with the top off:







With the bag removed:







OMG!  What are the blood red areas?  .....

Well, all they are, are the areas that the bag touched.  The first stage of meat is *deoxymyoglobin*, where the meat is a purplish color as it isn't exposed to oxygen.  2nd stage is _*oxymyoglobin*_, where it is exposed to oxygen and turns a bright red color.  Third stage is _*metmyoglobin *_where the meat turns brown.  This occurs naturally through age, but with the infusion of sodium nitrite, it occurs within a minute or two once exposed to the air, just a chemical reaction to the sodium nitrite.  So does that mean that the meat did not cure?  Well, kinda-sorta but not really - only the surface area a few microns thick did not turn brown, but it was because the surface did not get a chance to _*oxidize*_ and turn brown.  It still cured totally; it just didn't get a chance to turn color because the bag laid on it!  So, the assumption is that the meat never got to cure, but it did, it just didn't get a chance to turn it's nice ugly brown color is all!  I've said that a couple times now, haven't I?  Oh well... lol!

So, now it's time to hang it in the smoke house and fire it up... it's 22 here this morning.. brrrr... for Texas!  But, it fired up fine and smoke is a rollin'...













Now, just checked the temp for the first time, and we're within 10 degrees... at 140°!







Isn't that a wonderful color?  Corn cob pellets and maple pellets on top!


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## pops6927 (Feb 12, 2012)

[h1] [/h1][h1] [/h1][h1] [/h1][h1]Color of Fresh Meat: The Basics[/h1]
The information from the above post was taken from the source below and is in the public domain:

Posted on 
23. September. 2009 by Chris Raines

_By __Christopher R. Raines_

The color of fresh meat is considered one of the most influential factors  related to fresh meat purchasing decisions.  To many consumers, it can be a troubling thing, to go to the self-serve retail meat case and see one steak that is a bright, *[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]cherry-red[/color]*  color (packaged on a tray and wrapped in film) and right beside it is a dull, *[color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color]*  appearing steak (packaged in vacuum).  *Why the color difference?*  Even if those two steaks were cut from the same loin, they can appear _very _differently.

The reason for this apparent difference is probably due to how the meat was packaged.  In order for meat to “_[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]*bloom*[/color]_” (meat industry jargon for _turning from [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color]  to [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color]_), exposure of the primary pigment in meat (myoglobin) to oxygen is needed ([color= rgb(0, 0, 255)]_*meat color is a super-complicated thing; for now, let’s presume oxygen is the only substance that can cause meat to bloom; I’ll delve into others in later entries_[color= rgb(0, 0, 0)])[/color][/color].  Thus, if fresh meat (_“fresh meat” meaning steaks, chops, ground beef, etc. — not salami, bacon, ham…_) is packaged in a way that lets it contact oxygen (this is how most meat in self-serve meat cases are packaged), or displayed fresh at the meat counter, it should look [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color].  Problematically, once the steak is cut and exposed to air, oxidation (going rancid or “off”) may begin.  To mitigate oxidative deterioration and essentially keep meat fresher longer, there is vacuum packaging (some folks use the blanket term “Cryovac” in lieu of vacuum), in which meat is packaged without oxygen, and thus the fresh meat would appear a dull, [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purplish[/color]  color.  Vacuum packaging is pretty handy – take the air away, and meat will keep (frozen _or_refrigerated) longer.

_*Below is an illustration of the relationships among different states of myoglobin in fresh meat:*_






Forms of myoglobin, adapted from Mancini & Hunt, 2005

*There is a lot**  happening in this diagram!*  (*1*) Let’s start with [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]DEOXYMYOGLOBIN[/color]  in the upper left, which appears [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purplish[/color].  This is the color of meat when myoglobin is in its native state, or immediately after cutting and before blooming.  For example, [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color]  is the color of meat in the middle of a steak (_i.e._, When you cut across a raw, fresh steak that’s[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color]  on the surface, it should be [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color]  in the middle.  If you let the steak sit for a bit exposed to air, that color will change, or bloom, to cherry [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color].)  (*2*) In the presence of oxygen (better referred to as oxygenation), fresh meat blooms and turns its characteristic[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color]  color.  This form of myoglobin is called [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]OXYMYOGLOBIN[/color].  After prolonged exposure to oxygen, (*3*) we then have [color= rgb(89, 68, 53)]METMYOGLOBIN[/color], which appears[color= rgb(89, 68, 53)]  brown[color= rgb(0, 0, 0)].  If you’ve ever been to the grocery and see brown spots on the “Reduced for Quick Sale” fresh meats, those superficial blemishes are [color= rgb(99, 86, 74)]METMYOGLOBIN[/color].  (Those little brown spots may not look appealing, but may not mean the meat is not safe to eat after cooking.  However, if you’ve_any_  reason to believe it’s not safe – _such as smells spoiled _- don’t eat it!)  After the meat_oxygenates_  and turns [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color], it will eventually _oxidize_  and turn [color= rgb(107, 89, 66)]brown[/color].[/color][/color]

[color= rgb(89, 68, 53)][color= rgb(0, 0, 0)]Getting into the chemistry of the matter, the state of the iron in myoglobin  (the heme pigment – _this is the iron than makes red meat “high in iron”_) is a determining factor to fresh meat color.  [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]DEOXYMYOGLOBIN[/color]  and [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]OXYMYOGLOBIN[/color]  contains iron in the ferrous (Fe 2+) state and [color= rgb(103, 88, 70)]METMYOGLOBIN[/color]  contains iron in the ferric (Fe 3+) state.    _Let’s dig deeper into this ferrous/ferric business…_[/color][/color]

*Electron management is the key to meat color management. *As outlined above, the difference between desirable, [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color]  fresh meat and undesirable, [color= rgb(106, 93, 77)]brown[/color]  meat is *one**electron*.  *Yep, one.*  Follow the arrows in the diagram, and you can see how the different color forms relate to each other.  A classic example of these color dynamics in action that you may have observed yourself are the different colors of beef present in one ground beef vacuum chub.  Meat may look [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color]  or [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color]  on the outside, but have a [color= rgb(103, 83, 60)]brown, [/color][color= rgb(103, 83, 60)]muddy[/color]appearance in the middle.  That’s totally *okay*  — look above at the color cycles.  The [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color](bloomed) ground beef was put into a vacuum package, and before it turns [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color], it turns[color= rgb(103, 83, 60)]brown[/color].  Since the beef has gone through this natural color cycle a few times (from [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color]to [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]red[/color]  to [color= rgb(92, 71, 61)]brown[/color]  to [color= rgb(128, 0, 128)]purple[/color]…), the enzymes in the meat that allow for this cycle to continue are worn out (those guys tucker out pretty quickly and easily).  Thus, the meat may stop at[color= rgb(92, 71, 61)]brown[/color]  and stay there. That’s just how the color dynamics work — _it does not necessarily mean the beef has gone bad_.

I’m working an entry as to why *cooked beef color is not a good indicator of doneness*, and why a meat thermometer should be used to ensure that _any _ground meat is *cooked to 16o°F*.  (_UPDATED: cooked ground beef color post here_)  There’s another thing happening in the upper right of the _myoglobin color forms diagram —_[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]CARBOXYMYOGLOBIN[/color].  I’ve left that out of the color dynamics explanation for now, but will address it soon.  (_UPDATED:  Carboxymyoglobin post __here_)

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## ak1 (Feb 12, 2012)

Looks great Pops!

This may be a silly question, but what is the bag for?

Thanks.


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## pops6927 (Feb 12, 2012)

Now, the BB Bacon is finished!  Let's examine the exteriors:

Before, piece 1:







After, piece 1:







Before, piece 2:







After, piece 2:







Now, I've cut the smaller piece right where the bright red was:







and, voila, cured all the way through!







MMmmm, now doesn't that just look good?!

Thanks for looking!


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## pops6927 (Feb 12, 2012)

Not a silly question at all!  It is a half-full ziploc bag, with water, to keep the meat submerged in the brine.


AK1 said:


> Looks great Pops!
> 
> This may be a silly question, but what is the bag for?
> 
> Thanks.


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## pops6927 (Feb 12, 2012)

Of Course, PJ is right there every step of the way....!







Waiting for this:







Now is that intense or what??!! LOL, she is a professional beggar, no doubt about it!


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## ak1 (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks. 

Now that I look at the pic again, I can see the water inside.


Pops6927 said:


> Not a silly question at all!  It is a half-full ziploc bag, with water, to keep the meat submerged in the brine.


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## SmokinAl (Feb 12, 2012)

It looks great as always Pops! Glad to see your passing your skills on down the line!


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## toxie (Feb 12, 2012)

Looks awesome Pops!!


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## sprky (Feb 12, 2012)

. Now I know the answer to the few Red spots on the meat.


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## venture (Feb 12, 2012)

Another great post, Pops.  Thank you!

Good luck and good smoking.


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## daveomak (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks Pops.... I needed to know that.... You are a keeping this neophyte informed.... Good job...   Dave


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## shoneyboy (Feb 12, 2012)

How long do you smoke for ? I've only made 2 batches of BBB, I smoked the first for 8 hrs and the 2nd for 12 hrs, keeping the temperature down as close to 100 deg as possible.  Suggestions ????


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## pops6927 (Feb 13, 2012)

It is entirely your preference!  I do mine at 230° until the internal temp is 150°; then it is fully cooked and can be eaten as-is or heated, fried, baked, etc.   These pieces took me from 8am to 1:30pm because they were fairly thin; Rob butterflied them to reduce thickness which was his preference; he ran the knife, I just advised him how to best maneuver around the bone to leave as much meat intact as possible but he did all the cutting, I am severely limited as to what I can either do or endure a/c fatique.  Plus, he won't learn if I do it; every butt he does he learns more!  

At 100° your meat is still considered 'raw' and would require cooking before it is edible, and pathogens can still be alive and well on it or in it..  At 135° it is considered 'partially cooked'; and still requires cooking to min. 146° internal for fully cooked, but is high enough to destroy pathogens.  At 146° minimum internal it is fully cooked and can be eaten as-is or further cooked by any method.  I take it to a minimum of 150° in the thickest parts just to be safe that it is definitely fully cooked; I don't want myself, my kids or their kids and friends getting sick from something I've produced, naturally.  And, I'm their father.  I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, either....

"Oh no, dad, I would _never_ eat any without cooking it fully first..." (nom nom nom...)  ... lol... know what I mean?!  I've known them too long.. and they're still confessing some of the things they've pulled behind my back... at least the milder ones..., lol!


Shoneyboy said:


> How long do you smoke for ? I've only made 2 batches of BBB, I smoked the first for 8 hrs and the 2nd for 12 hrs, keeping the temperature down as close to 100 deg as possible.  Suggestions ????


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## jrod62 (Feb 13, 2012)

Pops , great post with lots of good info. thanks Thumbs Up


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## mballi3011 (Feb 13, 2012)

Now thats some good looking BBB. I like the before and after Q


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## realtorterry (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank You Again Pops! 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I just got my cure in, I have a butt in the frezzer. Been wondering what kinda of bucket to put it in as I have limited space. Now that I see I can go as small as a 2.5 gallon I gotta get on this BBB train. Using your brine of course. What size were those butts?


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 13, 2012)

Pretty nice...My Cure #1 soon cometh...JJ


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## smokinhusker (Feb 13, 2012)

Great looking BBB! Thanks for the great info once again Pops! I haven't tried your brine yet, but I do have 4 more butts in the freezer!


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## zekesman (Feb 13, 2012)

Pops,Do you notice any flavor difference with hot or cold smoke? Thanks for the very informative post.  Vic


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## scarbelly (Feb 13, 2012)

Great job Pops - passing on that knowledge is very important. Thanks for all you do for us


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## sound1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks Pops. I think you have one lucky son there.  From the pics, it looks as if he is actually listening/learning from ya.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Gotta be past the teenage years!!


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## geerock (Feb 13, 2012)

Pops6927 said:


> It is entirely your preference!  I do mine at 230° until the internal temp is 150°; then it is fully cooked and can be eaten as-is or heated, fried, baked, etc.   These pieces took me from 8am to 1:30pm because they were fairly thin; Rob butterflied them to reduce thickness which was his preference; he ran the knife, I just advised him how to best maneuver around the bone to leave as much meat intact as possible but he did all the cutting, I am severely limited as to what I can either do or endure a/c fatique.  Plus, he won't learn if I do it; every butt he does he learns more!
> 
> At 100° your meat is still considered 'raw' and would require cooking before it is edible, and pathogens can still be alive and well on it or in it..  At 135° it is considered 'partially cooked'; and still requires cooking to min. 146° internal for fully cooked, but is high enough to destroy pathogens.  At 146° minimum internal it is fully cooked and can be eaten as-is or further cooked by any method.  I take it to a minimum of 150° in the thickest parts just to be safe that it is definitely fully cooked; I don't want myself, my kids or their kids and friends getting sick from something I've produced, naturally.  And, I'm their father.  I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, either....
> 
> "Oh no, dad, I would _never_ eat any without cooking it fully first..." (nom nom nom...)  ... lol... know what I mean?!  I've known them too long.. and they're still confessing some of the things they've pulled behind my back... at least the milder ones..., lol!


Pops,

I'm pretty new here, but just want to say every question I've ever had about BBQ and smoking meat has been answered somewhere on this forum............. and usually from one of your posts.  And I'd like to let you know how much it is appreciated.  I'm curing up some bellies, loins, and BBB's right now to be ready for a weekend smoke and have had conflicting ways of how long and at what temp.  Your post above answered it all.  All the best to you.


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## big andy a (Feb 13, 2012)

Pops,

I ordered Cure #1 over the weekend and plan to try BBB in a couple of weeks.  Thanks for all the great info, you've provided a terrific roadmap that I will be following faithfully.

Curt.


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## tjohnson (Feb 13, 2012)

Great Job Pops!

I've done it both ways, and prefer Cold Smoking

My 2 cents

Todd


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## shoneyboy (Feb 13, 2012)

Pops6927 said:


> It is entirely your preference!  I do mine at 230° until the internal temp is 150°; then it is fully cooked and can be eaten as-is or heated, fried, baked, etc.   These pieces took me from 8am to 1:30pm because they were fairly thin; Rob butterflied them to reduce thickness which was his preference; he ran the knife, I just advised him how to best maneuver around the bone to leave as much meat intact as possible but he did all the cutting, I am severely limited as to what I can either do or endure a/c fatique.  Plus, he won't learn if I do it; every butt he does he learns more!
> 
> At 100° your meat is still considered 'raw' and would require cooking before it is edible, and pathogens can still be alive and well on it or in it..  At 135° it is considered 'partially cooked'; and still requires cooking to min. 146° internal for fully cooked, but is high enough to destroy pathogens.  At 146° minimum internal it is fully cooked and can be eaten as-is or further cooked by any method.  I take it to a minimum of 150° in the thickest parts just to be safe that it is definitely fully cooked; I don't want myself, my kids or their kids and friends getting sick from something I've produced, naturally.  And, I'm their father.  I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, either....
> 
> "Oh no, dad, I would _never_ eat any without cooking it fully first..." (nom nom nom...)  ... lol... know what I mean?!  I've known them too long.. and they're still confessing some of the things they've pulled behind my back... at least the milder ones..., lol!









Sounds like my son!!! I watched him stealing Slim Jims out of the smoker as I was smoking them !!!! Then deny it when I confronted him about it !!!!  I love him to death, but there are times that I would trade him for some magic beans too…….Thanks for the advice I think I will try hot smoking once and see if there is a difference……


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## pops6927 (Feb 13, 2012)

Absolutely, that's the beauty of this venue, we get to choose what we like and enjoy the outcome!  Once again could not have done it without the AMNPS, there should be at least two in every home!


TJohnson said:


> Great Job Pops!
> 
> I've done it both ways, and prefer Cold Smoking
> 
> ...


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## pops6927 (Feb 13, 2012)

Oh yes, he's our baby boy... age 32 with a 3 yr old daughter!
 


Sound1 said:


> Thanks Pops. I think you have one lucky son there.  From the pics, it looks as if he is actually listening/learning from ya.
> 
> 
> 
> ...










Rob on the left, in red, age 32

George Jr (J R) on the right in grey, age 37

don't think they were too drunk.. well... dunno.. lol!

They both are learning, esp. after all my strokes, want to make sure I can pass on all I am able to before I no longer will be able to!


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## pops6927 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you all for the compliments!  I just want to be able to help others enjoy the gifts I've received from so many of my teachers and mentors and pass on what I know while I can!  Yes, I could write a book and charge for it, but those who need it the most may not want or could afford to buy it and they would miss out of all the pleasure this hobby affords or be delayed in helping others!  We are here to all help each other; please show your support for SMF by getting a premium membership to keep this great forum going!  It will help Jeff and hopefully we will be included in his book, or at least others will see us on here and ask for our help too!


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## scrappynadds (Feb 13, 2012)

Great looking BBB ...............I'll have one BLT to go please........


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## geerock (Feb 14, 2012)

Pops,

Where is this premium membership support link..............................   be glad to do my part but can't find it!


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## slownlow (Feb 14, 2012)

Great post,  thanks for all the info pops!


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## daveomak (Feb 14, 2012)

geerock, morning... It is difficult to find... I couldn't find it and another member sent it to me... so I filed it where I could retrieve it.... 

The forum appreciates all the support it gets, very much... Keep posting and keep the camera active... 

Dave

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/payment.php
 


geerock said:


> Pops,
> 
> Where is this premium membership support link..............................   be glad to do my part but can't find it!


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## geerock (Feb 14, 2012)

DaveOmak,

Thanks for the link        ......I am now a lifelong member.  Now I have to live 99 more years.  All the best.


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## chefrob (Feb 16, 2012)

good lookin bucky pops............and thx for the info, no matter how long some one is in the biz the learning proccess never ends.


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## realtorterry (Feb 17, 2012)

Pops, Im really close to starting my first BBB & I had hopefully one last question! I never know my work schedule 10 days in advance so IF I had to leave it in the your wet cure would be still be safe a day or two extra or should I just take it out & fridge it for a few days? Still a little unsure on all the curing part?


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## tgil (Feb 18, 2012)

Just realized you are local to me! Want to adopt another son? :biggrin:


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