# favorite whole chicken brine



## suds1421

What is everyones whole chicken brine? I am smoking my first whole chicken soon and want to try a brine. Help a newbie please...


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## oldschoolbbq

Suds, I haven't welcomed you yet, so glad to have you here...

Now for a brine. This is just a solution of salt and sugar along with flavor (Onion,Garlic , Chile or what floats your boat , here is a site that has several recipes and amounts of ingredients:http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/search.php?search=Brines+for+Poultry

Hope this helps and ...


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## chef jimmyj

Welcome to the SMF Family...This is what I use for Whole smoked Chicken...JJ

Families Favorite Brine

1/2C Kosher Salt

2T Paprika

2T Gran. Garlic

2T Gran. Onion

2T Dry Thyme

2T Black Pepper

1C Vinegar (Any)

1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix

1T Red Pepper Flake Optional

Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.

Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.

Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.

This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...

Bubba Chix Rub

1/2C Raw Sugar

2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)

1T Cayenne

1T Gran. Garlic

1T Gran. Onion

1tsp Black Pepper

1tsp Wht Pepper

1tsp Allspice

1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)

Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.

Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.

Good Luck!


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## fpnmf

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/tips-slaughterhouse-recipes-for-poultry


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## cooknhogz

8 cups water

1/2 cup Kosher salt

1/4 cup Old Bay Garlic and Herb

1/2 cup brown sugar

Heat all above on stove till dissolved let cool before use.


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## jim s

Hi Jimmy, Jim here too. My first smoker experience will be a whole chicken this week end. I've seen your recipies for brine and rub, and I'll probably be using them. My biggest question now is How long to I use smoke in the recipe. I don't mean how long do I cook, but do I supply the wood chips for the whole cooking time, or only the beginning or end ??? I saw something jeff wrote about only smoking for 2 hrs., but cooking for 4 + - . I'm a little nervous about it being too smokey.  As far as the cooking part, I'm going with about 200deg until the chicken reaches 170 internal. I also plan on kicking up the temp for the last 30-40 minutes to give the skin a little crackle.  Tell me where I'm right (if anywhere) and wrong.

    I burn wood for my main source of household and garage heat in upstate NY. I've seen what happens when wood smolders too low, and I'm scared of giving my chicken a nice coating of creasote. How do I avoid that ? Thanks for your time and help Jim. Take a drive up here some weekend and have a few beers with me & my other Jersey buddies .  Seeya, Jim S, Bainbridge NY


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## dumbwhiteperson

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Welcome to the SMF Family...This is what I use for Whole smoked Chicken...JJ
> 
> Families Favorite Brine
> 
> 1/2C Kosher Salt
> 2T Paprika
> 2T Gran. Garlic
> 2T Gran. Onion
> 2T Dry Thyme
> 2T Black Pepper
> 1C Vinegar (Any)
> 1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix
> 
> 1T Red Pepper Flake Optional
> 
> Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.
> Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.
> Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.
> This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...
> 
> Bubba Chix Rub
> 
> 1/2C Raw Sugar
> 2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)
> 1T Cayenne
> 1T Gran. Garlic
> 1T Gran. Onion
> 1tsp Black Pepper
> 1tsp Wht Pepper
> 1tsp Allspice
> 1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)
> 
> Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.
> Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.
> 
> Good Luck!



Thanks for this :) I just put my first chicken in your brine recipe to sit overnight. I am attempting my first smoke ever tomorrow.


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## chef jimmyj

Dumbwhiteperson said:


> Thanks for this :) I just put my first chicken in your brine recipe to sit overnight. I am attempting my first smoke ever tomorrow.


No problem...I hope you enjoy it as much as all that have eaten my Chicken and Turkey...JJ


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## jonjoniam

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Families Favorite Brine
> 
> 1/2C Kosher Salt
> 
> 2T Paprika
> 
> 2T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 2T Gran. Onion
> 
> 2T Dry Thyme
> 
> 2T Black Pepper
> 
> 1C Vinegar (Any)
> 
> 1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix
> 
> 1T Red Pepper Flake Optional
> 
> [...]
> 
> Bubba Chix Rub
> 
> 1/2C Raw Sugar
> 
> 2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)
> 
> 1T Cayenne
> 
> 1T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 1T Gran. Onion
> 
> 1tsp Black Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Wht Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Allspice
> 
> 1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)
> 
> [...]
> 
> Good Luck!


Hi.

What wood do you use with this combination?

Gran Garlic/Onion is Garlic Powder and Onion powder? "Raw Sugar" is "regular" sugar?

Thanks,

Jon


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## dracornelius

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Welcome to the SMF Family...This is what I use for Whole smoked Chicken...JJ
> 
> Families Favorite Brine
> 
> 1/2C Kosher Salt
> 2T Paprika
> 2T Gran. Garlic
> 2T Gran. Onion
> 2T Dry Thyme
> 2T Black Pepper
> 1C Vinegar (Any)
> 1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix
> 
> 1T Red Pepper Flake Optional
> 
> Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.
> Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.
> Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.
> This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...
> 
> Bubba Chix Rub
> 
> 1/2C Raw Sugar
> 2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)
> 1T Cayenne
> 1T Gran. Garlic
> 1T Gran. Onion
> 1tsp Black Pepper
> 1tsp Wht Pepper
> 1tsp Allspice
> 1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)
> 
> Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.
> Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.
> 
> Good Luck!



Hi Chef jimmy, i brine my chicken last night using your recipe, if i decided not to rinse, do you recomended using the same rub of your recipe?


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## chef jimmyj

I don't usually rinse either. I drain and dry with paper towel. If I have scheduled right I give the bird a night in the refer to dry a bit but that doesn't always happen. I dry it off, apply the Rub, mixed with bacon grease is awesome, and in the smoker or oven. 

If you look at spices in the store, they all say Garlic Powder but some will look like Sand and some like Baby Powder. I look for and use the courser Garlic Powder which in a pro kitchen and spice shops is called Granulated. Raw Sugar aka, Turbinado Sugar, is just a course grain dried Sugar Cane Juice. There is no processing or molasses removal like White Sugar. Raw Sugar has a better taste and does not burn easily at smoking temps. Smoke wise I use A-MAZE-N Pitmasters Choice Pellets in an AMNPS Pellet Smoke Generator. I like any Fruit wood and frequently mix Apple and Hickory. My family thinks straight Hickory is too strong.

I missed your first post and found this by luck. Anytime you post and I don't answer by the next day, PM me. You, or anyone, can also feel free to PM anytime for my help. Good Luck with the bird...JJ


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## dracornelius

I cooked 2 birds, one with your recipe and the other with another recipe,,, everyone agreed that your recipe was the best!!! I didnt rinse The chicken and came very good!! NeXT time i'm going to Add your Rub! Thanks chef jimmy!!!!!


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## goliath

i found this somewhere on this site a year or so ago and i am very pleased with it .....

I take a standard poultry brine of:

1 Gal Water
2.5 oz Salt - Kosher
2.5 oz Sugar
1 ½  tsp Garlic Powder
1 ½  tsp Onion Powder
1 ½  tsp Cajun Spice (Louisiana Cajun Seasoning)
1 ½  tsp Celery Seed

To that I add a grocery store size bottle of Kraft Catalina Salad Dressing and a bottle of Crystal Hot Sauce.

For the individual pieces I marinate 24 hours.  For the whole bird I go up to 48 hours. 

Once out of the marinade and drained, they get rubbed in:

¾ C. Sugar
1 T Kosher Salt
2T Black Pepper
1T Garlic
1T Onion
2T Old Bay
4T Paprika
2 t dry mustard
½ t ground bay
½ t ground rosemary

Goliath


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## chef jimmyj

dracornelius said:


> I cooked 2 birds, one with your recipe and the other with another recipe,,, everyone agreed that your recipe was the best!!! I didnt rinse The chicken and came very good!! NeXT time i'm going to Add your Rub! Thanks chef jimmy!!!!!


I'm glad to hear I won the day...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  I have been making that Brine 23 years. There are member of my family that will request my Chicken even if I offer to make Steak. Here is another chicken recipe of mine. It is the best chicken I have ever made...JJ

*Pit Chicken aka, Roadside Chicken*

This Chicken is Grilled/Smoked and sold all across the country at Roadside Stands and at Firehouse Fund Raiser BBQ's. Here is my version...

Pit Chix Basting Sauce

2C Apple Cider Vinegar

1C Olive or other Oil

2T Worcestershire Sauce or more to taste

1/4C Brown Sugar

1T Smoked Paprika

2 tsp Granulated Garlic

2 tsp Granulated Onion

2 tsp Fine Grind Black Pepper

1 tsp Celery Salt

1 tsp Cayenne Pepper or Chipotle powder. Add more if you like Heat.

1/2 tsp Grnd Allspice

2Lrg Egg Yolks

I always Brine my Chicken with my Families Favorite Brine and apply some Bubba Chix Rub. This is then Grill/Smoked over indirect heat at 300-325°F until the Internal Temp (IT) reaches 175°F. If the skin is not Crisp enough, a few minutes, turning frequently, over direct heat will get you there.

This stuff is Tangy with a Sweet and Spicy Finish. If you wish, instead of Brining, you can make a Double batch and add 1T Kosher Salt to half. Marinate the Chix for 4-6 hours with the salted half of the Brine/Basting Sauce then use the rest to baste during the Cook.

I would squirt the Sauce on with a Sports Bottle about every 15-20 minutes and used all but 1/2 cup that I took to the Table to add a fresh Punch of flavor. Great Stuff!...JJ


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## per2467

Chef JJ and all the regular "pit masters" that post on this forum,  THANK YOU for all the great advice.  As a newbie to this smoking game I want to thank you for your time, patience, knowledge, and commitment to this forum.  I've learn a tremendous amount from these posts,


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## supermailbag

Wow! We just picked up a smoker this week and I am SO glad I found this forum.  We brined the chickens 24 with your family favorite brine.  I will never do it any other way...THANKS,


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## tom m

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Welcome to the SMF Family...This is what I use for Whole smoked Chicken...JJ
> 
> Families Favorite Brine
> 
> 1/2C Kosher Salt
> 
> 2T Paprika
> 
> 2T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 2T Gran. Onion
> 
> 2T Dry Thyme
> 
> 2T Black Pepper
> 
> 1C Vinegar (Any)
> 
> 1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix
> 
> 1T Red Pepper Flake Optional
> 
> Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.
> 
> Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.
> 
> Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.
> 
> This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...
> 
> Bubba Chix Rub
> 
> 1/2C Raw Sugar
> 
> 2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)
> 
> 1T Cayenne
> 
> 1T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 1T Gran. Onion
> 
> 1tsp Black Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Wht Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Allspice
> 
> 1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)
> 
> Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.
> 
> Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.
> 
> Good Luck!


Signed up to say I tried this brine this past weekend for the inaugural run of the new smoker and it  was fabulous.


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## shelly bock

Hi, get in touch, [email protected],  Im in Fl to


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## h8that4u

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Welcome to the SMF Family...This is what I use for Whole smoked Chicken...JJ
> 
> Families Favorite Brine
> 
> 1/2C Kosher Salt
> 
> 2T Paprika
> 
> 2T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 2T Gran. Onion
> 
> 2T Dry Thyme
> 
> 2T Black Pepper
> 
> 1C Vinegar (Any)
> 
> 1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix
> 
> 1T Red Pepper Flake Optional
> 
> Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.
> 
> Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.
> 
> Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.
> 
> This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...
> 
> Bubba Chix Rub
> 
> 1/2C Raw Sugar
> 
> 2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)
> 
> 1T Cayenne
> 
> 1T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 1T Gran. Onion
> 
> 1tsp Black Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Wht Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Allspice
> 
> 1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)
> 
> Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.
> 
> Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.
> 
> Good Luck!


Tried this on Sunday, and by far the best chicken I have had, they are on sale for .69 lb this week going to go by the limit to do more this weekend. Will take photos this time.


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## chef jimmyj

Glad to hear you liked the brine.The brine makes all the difference...JJ


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## bbq geek

Put the chicken in the Family's Favorite Brine recipe last night, gonna set it up to dry tonight and then dry rub it with Bubba Chix Rub and smoke it tomorrow. Can't wait to see how it turns out!!! How long should I put the rub on before I throw it on the smoker?


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## h8that4u

In my opinion, after using this brine for the last 10 chickens that I have done, I would not even use the rub. The brine has/adds such a great flavor to the chicken, a rub really is not needed. But if you really must add the rub, about a half hour to 45 mins before you put it on the smoker should be good.


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## lemans

Here is my favorite..
  Buttermilk Brine

1/2 Gallon buttermilk
1/4 cup kosher salt
1/4 cup rub
1/8 cup hot sauce
1/4 cup brown sugar
6 green onions chopped
5 cloves of garlic smashed
1/4 cup hot water

Try it. You will like it!!


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## bbq geek

h8that4u said:


> In my opinion, after using this brine for the last 10 chickens that I have done, I would not even use the rub. The brine has/adds such a great flavor to the chicken, a rub really is not needed. But if you really must add the rub, about a half hour to 45 mins before you put it on the smoker should be good.


Thanks for the heads up. I decided to go ahead and go all the way this time around with the brine and the rub since I'm feeling motivated. Will probably do just a bribe next time. I also decided to cook up a smaller portion of Gary's smoked baked beans to go on the side with some mashed potatoes the wife will be making. Here are some pics of the beans on the BGE and the chicken from brining to dry rub.












IMG_1789.JPG



__ bbq geek
__ Apr 22, 2017


















IMG_1792.JPG



__ bbq geek
__ Apr 22, 2017


















IMG_1813.JPG



__ bbq geek
__ Apr 22, 2017


















IMG_1815.JPG



__ bbq geek
__ Apr 22, 2017


















IMG_1809.JPG



__ bbq geek
__ Apr 22, 2017





Gonna put the chicken on in about an hour. Getting excited!












IMG_1820.JPG



__ bbq geek
__ Apr 22, 2017





The chicken is on. Just gotta wait for a while and check the temperature in about an hour.


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## hooked on smoke

May sound funky but I've done a grape juice and herbes de provenve, Brown sugar and light garlic brine on a whole spatchcocked bird that turned out pretty darn good.


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## geezer

I'm not much fun when it comes to brines, tho I do use them.

No, its just that most stuff folks put in them has no effect, IMO. 

Some salt, some sugar,................................done. Unless you add I guess some aromatics of some sort like perhaps pepper corns and bay leaves? Even then you best boil it and make a tea.


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## lemans

Omg.. brine is the only way to go..


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## Raul Rodriguez

I’m trying to smoke 4 whole chickens all are around 5 lbs I have Morton’s tender quick how much should I use


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## h8that4u

None.


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## chef jimmyj

Raul Rodriguez said:


> I’m trying to smoke 4 whole chickens all are around 5 lbs I have Morton’s tender quick how much should I use
> 
> What's your goal. Moist, seasoned bird or Hammy tasting chicken. TQ gives a hammy flavor with pink dark meat. Salt brings season and tenderize but still taste like chicken. For TQ  info, message Bearcarver. He's the goto on TQ...JJ


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## Raul Rodriguez

I just don’t want a salty bird


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## chef jimmyj

Easy, weigh the bird, weigh enough water to cover. Multiply the total weight by .02 (2%). 2% is the salinity of store bought Ham on the Bone. Mix that weight of salt in the water and add any other flavoring. Soaking overnight or 3 days, the bird will never get any saltier than 2%...JJ


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## dabills

chef jimmyj said:


> Welcome to the SMF Family...This is what I use for Whole smoked Chicken...JJ
> 
> Families Favorite Brine
> 
> 1/2C Kosher Salt
> 
> 2T Paprika
> 
> 2T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 2T Gran. Onion
> 
> 2T Dry Thyme
> 
> 2T Black Pepper
> 
> 1C Vinegar (Any)
> 
> 1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix
> 
> 1T Red Pepper Flake Optional
> 
> Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.
> 
> Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.
> 
> Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.
> 
> This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...
> 
> Bubba Chix Rub
> 
> 1/2C Raw Sugar
> 
> 2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)
> 
> 1T Cayenne
> 
> 1T Gran. Garlic
> 
> 1T Gran. Onion
> 
> 1tsp Black Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Wht Pepper
> 
> 1tsp Allspice
> 
> 1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)
> 
> Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.
> 
> Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.
> 
> Good Luck!



How do you think this would taste on a Thanksgiving Turkey? Wife is doing traditional in the oven so that's covered. Just wondering how this chicken recipe would translate to Thanksgiving smoked turkey. Might be an interesting addition. Lemme know what you think!


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## chef jimmyj

Tastes Great! I use that Brine on all Poultry. A Friend in the UK sells Smoked Turkeys and uses that brine...JJ


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## dabills

chef jimmyj said:


> Tastes Great! I use that Brine on all Poultry. A Friend in the UK sells Smoked Turkeys and uses that brine...JJ



Thanks,  I'm doing it now! Would you recommend a rub or an injection or just brine the first time?


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## chef jimmyj

You don't need to inject when Brined. The Rubs I use is above, with the Brine Recipe...JJ


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## sandyut

fpnmf said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tips Slaughterhouse Recipes For Poultry
> 
> 
> I hope that Tip doesn't mind that I've listed his Slaughterhouse recipes here.  These recipes are well-received and deserving of a WIKI entry.  Slaughterhouse Poultry Brine By Tip Piper of Hillbilly Vittles 1 ½ Gal Water ½ C Salt - Kosher ½ C...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smokingmeatforums.com


this is all I use on poultry.


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## dabills

sandyut said:


> this is all I use on poultry.



I've used this the last couple years,  it's really good just trying something different.


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## ChuckEWil

Should I brine leg quarters too?


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## chef jimmyj

Yes. I find all poultry benefits from a wet or dry Brine. Even Enhance Turkey...JJ


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## tallbm

ChuckEWil said:


> Should I brine leg quarters too?



You can but the dark meat does not require it only the white meat or whole birds (because of the white meat). 
You can simply season and cook leg quarters or separated thighs and drums even boneless skinless thighs.

When I avoid buying chicken the #1 reason is that it is white meat that I have to brine and I don't have the time or want to make the time or take the effort hahaha.

Split chicken breast was on sale last week and I didnt want to fool with brining it so I didnt get any.
If it was boneless skinless breast you can get away with cutting flat cuts about as thick as your index finger season and grill with no brining but thicker and you get back into needing to brine.  Also cutting strips about the same thickness works well.  Grill over hot flame like a steak.

I hope this info helps :)


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## forktender

Salt water & white sugar and that's it.

 I have tried a lot of fancy 10 -12 ingredient brines and 90% of them the added flavors don't carry over very well at all. The only reason I brine at all is that it changes the texture and moisture level in the bird.


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## bill1

Brines are great for getting flavorful salt into meat, esp poultry.  But the tricky thing about wet brines is it's easy to oversalt if you leave in too long.  12 vs 24 hours makes a big difference--set a timer on your phone once you find what works for you.   
The other more complex flavors I believe are best added at time of cook...but then go easy on anything commercial since they tend to come with salt and the idea is you've already done the salting at that point.


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## tallbm

bill1 said:


> Brines are great for getting flavorful salt into meat, esp poultry.  But the tricky thing about wet brines is it's easy to oversalt if you leave in too long.  12 vs 24 hours makes a big difference--set a timer on your phone once you find what works for you.
> The other more complex flavors I believe are best added at time of cook...but then go easy on anything commercial since they tend to come with salt and the idea is you've already done the salting at that point.





 bill1
 is correct about over salting, especially when finding a lot of recommendations online or from people in general.

The way to avoid over salting is with an Equilibrium Brine. The short story is you weigh the meet and water and then put like 1.5-2% of that weight as salt. 
This means that you will never have more than 1.5-2% salt in your meat since salt wants to distribute evenly and I believe salt penetrates 1/4 inch ever 24 hours.
Leave it in for 24 hours or 124hrs,  you cannot go above 1.5-2% salt.

The precision and simplicity just can't be beat.  Now the only thing you have to figure out is if you like the lower end 1.5% or the higher end 2% and you are set to never over salt again.

FYI, I've found the 2% salt rule to work with dry brines as well for bacon and fish I smoke.

I do the simplest brine known to man, water + salt.  Then I season the meat when I pull it out but excluding salt or any seasonings that have salt in them :)

I hope this helps :)


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## bill1

tallbm said:


> ...Leave it in for 24 hours or 124hrs,  you cannot go above 1.5-2% salt....


Definitely true regarding the over-salting, but even 24 hours may then result in UNDER-salting, particularly for thick cuts.  I suppose you could always add salt at the dinner table in that case...

So do you have a rule of thumb for length of brining given this approach?  Something like 48 hours per inch of minimal meat thickness for red meat, 24 hours per inch for poultry, 12 hr/in for fish???  I wouldn't think what works for turkey breasts works for chicken drumsticks. 

A similar approach is just a dry brine...just salt the meat to the levels you like (1-1.5% salt-to-meat mass is typical for me).  Then the question with not "brining" long enough is not under-salting, just how  the salt is distributed thoughout the meat.  Dry brining poultry this way even for just an hour is better than just adding it at time of cook.  And after all, most of the other flavors we add to meat only reside on the surface or just a millimeter underneath anyhow.


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## tallbm

bill1 said:


> Definitely true regarding the over-salting, but even 24 hours may then result in UNDER-salting, particularly for thick cuts.  I suppose you could always add salt at the dinner table in that case...
> 
> So do you have a rule of thumb for length of brining given this approach?  Something like 48 hours per inch of minimal meat thickness for red meat, 24 hours per inch for poultry, 12 hr/in for fish???  I wouldn't think what works for turkey breasts works for chicken drumsticks.
> 
> A similar approach is just a dry brine...just salt the meat to the levels you like (1-1.5% salt-to-meat mass is typical for me).  Then the question with not "brining" long enough is not under-salting, just how  the salt is distributed thoughout the meat.  Dry brining poultry this way even for just an hour is better than just adding it at time of cook.  And after all, most of the other flavors we add to meat only reside on the surface or just a millimeter underneath anyhow.



Great question.
The magic solution is.... I just inject the brine into really thick cuts like whole chickens, bone in chicken breast, turkey breast, whole turkeys, etc.  I then submerge.
This greatly reduces the need to have to brine and let the salt distribute the long way :)

Thin meats like fish or boneless skinless chicken there is no need to inject unless they are massive whole boneless skinless chicken breasts.

Anytime I add cure the brine for cured chicken or turkey I also inject with the mixed up brine/cure water as well to ensure the cure is in there then let it cure along the same time tables. Works like a charm.

For dry brines this is for meat that is also not too thick. Pork bellies and brisket flats u can just dry brine and wait the amount of time needed, especially if cure is involved. Vac sealing helps as well.

Oh one final thing with the wet brine. If you inject the brine into the meat then you can also add the seasoning to it which works well also. I usually dont bother with this much because the amount of seasoning to add can be a lot when you would add much less if just seasoning after brining. I WILL add some garlic and onion and cracked black pepper to my brine though and then inject as those flavors permeate much more easily but nothing much more than that :)
I often just skip adding the extra seasoning to the brine and just do salt + water (and cure#1 when curing).

I hope this info helps :)


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## chef jimmyj

While Legs and Thighs tend to stay juicy and tender, not needing those characteristics achieved Brining them...They DO benefit from the Salts flavor penetration into the Dark Meat.
The 1/2 Cup Kosher per Gallon Water in my Brine results in 3% Salt per gallon. Add 4 pounds of Chicken, a typical Family Pack of Thighs...

4oz Kosher Salt / 192 oz Chicken and Water × 100 = 2% Salt in equilibrium.

Been using my Family's Favorite Brine 30 Years, leaving Chicken soak up to 3 Days, with No mushy meat or overly salty meat...JJ


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## bill1

tallbm said:


> ...The magic solution is.... I just inject... hope this info helps :)


Certainly a good way to get flavors _*into*_ the meat.  Thanks! 
But if you do it with cure, I'd think you'd leave a colored trail of each path the needle took?  
I've been known to put a little cure in my brine as well, which was in the back of my mind with the over-salting concern, and with liquid brine it certainly follows any fissures in the meat, coloring wise.  Mumbling about smoke rings somewhat dismisses the issue but I think a couple dozen needle pokes would be a bit less excusable.  
Feature, not bug?


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## bill1

I was looking for rules of thumb...better yet, Greg Blonder has calculators; 
https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/saltbrinecalculator.html 
Note there's 3 tabs there for 3 physical concepts.  

Thighs are my "go to" chicken dinner too.  The difference in saltiness between overnight brining and 1.5 days is considerable, both empirically and by the calculator.  I'm liking the idea of shooting for the equilibrium approach....my problem has not been too much salt per chicken mass, but not enough water to keep the final percentage below 2%.  I've transitioned to brining in zip lock bags but that greatly reduces the amount of water I use and I need to reduce salt accordingly and be consistent about brining for at least 1 full day.  

It's always good to re-think one's assumptions.  Great topic; thanks to all posters.


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## tallbm

chef jimmyj said:


> While Legs and Thighs tend to stay juicy and tender, not needing those characteristics achieved Brining them...They DO benefit from the Salts flavor penetration into the Dark Meat.
> The 1/2 Cup Kosher per Gallon Water in my Brine results in 3% Salt per gallon. Add 4 pounds of Chicken, a typical Family Pack of Thighs...
> 
> 4oz Kosher Salt / 192 oz Chicken and Water × 100 = 2% Salt in equilibrium.
> 
> Been using my Family's Favorite Brine 30 Years, leaving Chicken soak up to 3 Days, with No mushy meat or overly salty meat...JJ


I totally agree.  You will get better flavor with brining hands down on dark meat.
Also, yep your brine becomes a 2% equilibrium brine and I 100% believe in your family favorite brine really pleasing everyone.  I've don't recall ever having to brine/cure chicken or turkey for more than 3 days (maybe a turkey to defrost faster but cant remember) and I have never had mushy poultry at all.
Once I learned about equilibrium brines I've never had a dry over salted piece of chicken or pork loin since hahaha.



bill1 said:


> Certainly a good way to get flavors _*into*_ the meat.  Thanks!
> But if you do it with cure, I'd think you'd leave a colored trail of each path the needle took?
> I've been known to put a little cure in my brine as well, which was in the back of my mind with the over-salting concern, and with liquid brine it certainly follows any fissures in the meat, coloring wise.  Mumbling about smoke rings somewhat dismisses the issue but I think a couple dozen needle pokes would be a bit less excusable.
> Feature, not bug?


I see where it would be easiy to think that the cure would leave streaks or migrate to the holes but the cure (curing salt) want's to distribute evenly like the regular salt.  So when you inject and then submerge and leave for long enough the salt and cure distributes evenly throughout the meat and the water thereby leaving no streaks since it moves to be even!!  C
Crazy how it all comes together aye hahaha.

Now if you don't brine it long enough then yeah you can get differences in coloration.  I have seen this before where I rushed some cured smoked turkey drumsticks.  I didnt inject these guys and they needed about 1/4 inch more penetration of the cure near the bone at the thickest part but it was fine since I hot smoked them and the cure is only for the flavor on poultry not for slow long smoking.

When injecting and brining for an adequate time I've never had an issue and brining time is greatly reduced since salt and cure is spreading from inside and out :)




bill1 said:


> I was looking for rules of thumb...better yet, Greg Blonder has calculators;
> https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/saltbrinecalculator.html
> Note there's 3 tabs there for 3 physical concepts.
> 
> Thighs are my "go to" chicken dinner too.  The difference in saltiness between overnight brining and 1.5 days is considerable, both empirically and by the calculator.  I'm liking the idea of shooting for the equilibrium approach....my problem has not been too much salt per chicken mass, but not enough water to keep the final percentage below 2%.  I've transitioned to brining in zip lock bags but that greatly reduces the amount of water I use and I need to reduce salt accordingly and be consistent about brining for at least 1 full day.
> 
> It's always good to re-think one's assumptions.  Great topic; thanks to all posters.



I've used that calculator and it is good to go for BRINE ONLY, NOT CURE #1.
If using cure #1 to cure something in an equilibrium brine then I recommend this calculator:


			DiggingDogFarm
		


So for clarity:

Equilibrium Salt Brine, no cure #1 your calculator is good to go - https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/saltbrinecalculator.html
Equilibrium Cure#1 Brine with salt - http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html

Yeah you had the right idea with the bags and salt for brine you just have to adjust the numbers.  I would suggest going with a 1.75%-1.8% starting point and see if you want to bump up or down.  When I do a cure #1 brine I use that range or when I do a fish brine.  When I do all other brines I think I do 2%, need to check my notes.

Bill my friend you are on your way to brining heaven and nailing it EVERY time! :D


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## bill1

brining heaven is far superior to brining hell.


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## chef jimmyj

tallbm
 The 3 day Brine time was by circumstantial accident. I had planned an overnight smoke an then caught a Bug that laid me out for two days. You read about Brining too long making the chicken meat Mushy and Overly Salted. But most recipes go by is 1 Cup Kosher per Gallon and as much as 1/2 Cup Salt per Quart Water!!! The recipes call for 4 to 8 hour soak. But S#!T happens and having tbe bird soaking beyond recommended in those higher salinity brines, will make the bird inedible.
Having those particular Chicken Thighs soak 3 days and be delicious, confirmed that I had gotten that  brine recipe just right..JJ


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## tallbm

chef jimmyj said:


> tallbm
> The 3 day Brine time was by circumstantial accident. I had planned an overnight smoke an then caught a Bug that laid me out for two days. You read about Brining too long making the chicken meat Mushy and Overly Salted. But most recipes go by is 1 Cup Kosher per Gallon and as much as 1/2 Cup Salt per Quart Water!!! The recipes call for 4 to 8 hour soak. But S#!T happens and having tbe bird soaking beyond recommended in those higher salinity brines, will make the bird inedible.
> Having those particular Chicken Thighs soak 3 days and be delicious, confirmed that I had gotten that  brine recipe just right..JJ



I am right in line with your findings.
I'm pretty sure I've brined Turkeys for more than 3 days with no issues. I'm with you and I think it is an improper salt to water+meat ratio that messes up the chicken/turkey.

With an equilibrium brine I have no fears of going too long until it actually bites me :)


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