# Chucky (Tastes Great, but not so Tender)



## Bearcarver (Feb 21, 2018)

*Chucky (Tastes Great, but not so Tender)*

These Chuck Roasts I’ve been running through my Sous Vide Supreme have been coming out so Tender & Tasty, I really didn’t expect one like this.

The last two I did at 133° for 21 hours & 22 hours, and they were Perfect, so I saw no reason to make any big changes, so I did this one @ 133° for 21 hours again.
Then I Seared it all the way around on my Weber “Q”.  It tasted Great, as usual, but it wasn’t near Fork Tender like the other ones were, unless you lean about 100 pounds into that fork.

I never did a Chucky longer than 22 hours, so I’ll have to try one for 24 hrs, or maybe even 27 hrs.
I really thought I had these Chuckies nailed down, until I ran into this tough old Cow part !!!

So I’m going to include this one in my “Step by Step” Index, as a warning to others that even though my other two were Perfect, you can still get one that’s not Perfect by doing everything the same way.
Meanwhile I will do some more tests to see if I can come up with a Length of time for an Extra Tough Chucky to get tender.

BTW: I used Worcestershire Powder, CBP, Onion Powder, and Garlic Powder before Vacuum Sealing this Chucky.

Everything else is in the captions above each Picture (Below).

Thanks for stopping by,
Bear


Choice Chuck Roast @ $2.99 lb:







Seasonings Applied:






Vacuum sealed for the SV:






In SV rack, and ready for a bath:






After SV, Searing edges:






Searing Both Sides:






Slicing--Beautiful Color:






Bear's first helping of Sliced Chuck Roast, Mashed Taters with Gravy, and Peas:






Leftover sliced Chucky, ready for fridge & Sammies:






Building Hot Roast Beef Sammy---First Gravy, then slice of bread, then heated Roast Beef----






Then more Gravy----






Then another slice of Bread, and more Gravy:----Dig In!!


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## baseballguy99 (Feb 21, 2018)

Bear,  I did one a few weeks back and it came out the same way yours did.  The flavor was great but it was no where near fork tender.

My wife likes hers a little more “done”. So I did ours 135 for 22 hours, then seared in a CI skillet.


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## gnatboy911 (Feb 21, 2018)

I've got one going now.  Started in Monday night and will eat tonight.  Will be about 43hrs at 132.  I've done them at 160/24 for a traditional pot roast texture and its amazing.  This is my first one at a lower temp.


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## gary s (Feb 21, 2018)

Great info and pics as usual  Looked great, sometimes you just get a tougher piece of meat.

Gary,


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## lovethemeats (Feb 21, 2018)

Yep. You never know what that cow was doing out in the pasture. It's diet. 
Age before butchering. How long the meat was aged before going to the store. Just a tuff ole cow. Luck of the draw when getting meat at the stores. You just don't know till its done and your eating.


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## SmokinAl (Feb 21, 2018)

Too bad it didn't come out as expected!
But the photo's sure make it look good!
Al


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## dr k (Feb 21, 2018)

I yet have to do a chucky but did a bottom round roast that was recommended for 2-3 days and the top round at 1-2 days.  I did the bottom round at 135*F for 56 hours that was great but we're not comparing the same roasts.  I vaguely recall that I read after 50 hours the texture of meat is softer going towards mushy but didn't experience that.  I may stick to two days but something came up and being pasturized I got to it when I could.  

This is from A Practical Guide to Sou Vide Cooking under tough meat.  The last sentence caught my eye.
  At lower temperatures (120°F/50°C to 150°F/ 65°C), Bouton and Harris (1981) found that tough cuts of beef (from animals 0–4 years old) were the most tender when cooked to between 131°F and 140°F (55°C and 60°C). Cooking the beef for 24 hours at these temperatures significantly increased its tenderness (with shear forces decreasing 26%–72% compared to 1 hour of cooking). This tenderizing is caused by weakening of connective tissue and proteolytic enzymes decreasing myofibrillar tensile strength. Indeed, collagen begins to dissolve into gelatin above 122°F to 131°F (50°C to 55°C) (Neklyudov, 2003; This, 2006). Moreover, the sarcoplasmic protein enzyme collagenase remains active below 140°F (60°C) and can significantly tenderize the meat if held for more than 6 hours (Tornberg, 2005). This is why beef chuck roast cooked in a 131°F–140°F (55°C–60°C) water bath for 24–48 hours has the texture of filet mignon.


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## zwiller (Feb 21, 2018)

So was it a little tough....  I bet it was still awesome.  

Thanks for the info Kurt, I have wanted know that since first reading of SV.


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## dr k (Feb 21, 2018)

zwiller said:


> So was it a little tough....  I bet it was still awesome.
> 
> Thanks for the info Kurt, I have wanted know that since first reading of SV.


I just googled sou vide and found this:  A Practical Guide to Sou Vide Cooking.  It's a free online book, basically a table of contents, having charts, text recipes and concise video recipes.


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## troutman (Feb 21, 2018)

Thanks a great looking result bear. I’ve experienced the same, I usually do mine at 132 for 24 hours, that timing allows for dinner two days in advance.  As you know chuck is tough and if your cooking with a select cut it can be even tougher. I stick with CAB for my chuck cuts. I also pre-smoke so that benefits the cook. Like everyone has said try longer cook times, I had to with top round after some tenderness fails. Regardless thanks for posting, this is always helpful to see less then perfect versus always great!!!


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## dr k (Feb 21, 2018)

If you meant the Bottom round roast I did, it was tender not mushy after the 56 hours.  48 hours is going to be my sou vide max because I want to eat it!  LOL


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## dr k (Feb 21, 2018)

Bear, the color is great.  I'll stick with 131*F in the future.


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## idahopz (Feb 21, 2018)

Still looks great, John - especially the pic with the bread and gravy.  Sometimes like with other tough cuts that should be tneder, it is all about the individual cow.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 21, 2018)

baseballguy99 said:


> Bear,  I did one a few weeks back and it came out the same way yours did.  The flavor was great but it was no where near fork tender.
> 
> My wife likes hers a little more “done”. So I did ours 135 for 22 hours, then seared in a CI skillet.




Yup---The problem is the other ones I did at the same temp & the same length of time were Perfect taste, just like this one, but the others were fork tender.
So the problem is knowing if it's going to be a tough one before you set your SV for time.
I'm perfectly happy with the 133° temp for Chuckies, but it appears I have to use 21 or 22 hours for a normal Choice Chuck, but longer for a tougher Choice Chuck, because I only buy "Choice". The other problem is I don't like the texture of a roast that's been SV'd too long. So if I know it would be a normal Chuck, I want to use 21 or 22 hours, but the bad ones need a longer time, even if they are "Choice" as you can all see this one was (In the first Picture above).

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 21, 2018)

baseballguy99 said:


> Bear,  I did one a few weeks back and it came out the same way yours did.  The flavor was great but it was no where near fork tender.
> 
> My wife likes hers a little more “done”. So I did ours 135 for 22 hours, then seared in a CI skillet.





Thank You!
These two (Below) were Perfectly Fork Tender, done the exact same way as the one on this thread:
*Chuck Roast *(Best Ever—SV) 
*Another Awesome Chucky *
*
Bear*


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## tallbm (Feb 21, 2018)

Bear is there any kind of "bend" or probe test for tenderness on such a SV cook?


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

tallbm said:


> Bear is there any kind of "bend" or probe test for tenderness on such a SV cook?




None that I know of. I wish there was!!
This one was trying to fall apart when I was searing it. but it was tough to chew.

It's hard to nail down how to make these, because of the occasional bad one.
So I make them absolutely Fork Tender perfect using 133° for 21--22 hours. Then I get one like this one & it's not fork tender. So how long does that one need? And how do I find out how long a Tough one takes when I don't know ahead of time which one is tough?

I think I just have to see how much longer I can keep them in there before they start getting unacceptable from being in the SV too long, and then do them all like that. Guess I gotta work on that. I'll be staying on that 133° Temp, but I'm going to start extending the times on Chuckies---Gradually.

John


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

gnatboy911 said:


> I've got one going now.  Started in Monday night and will eat tonight.  Will be about 43hrs at 132.  I've done them at 160/24 for a traditional pot roast texture and its amazing.  This is my first one at a lower temp.




Let me know how that 132° for 43 hours turned out.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

troutman said:


> Thanks a great looking result bear. I’ve experienced the same, I usually do mine at 132 for 24 hours, that timing allows for dinner two days in advance.  As you know chuck is tough and if your cooking with a select cut it can be even tougher. I stick with CAB for my chuck cuts. I also pre-smoke so that benefits the cook. Like everyone has said try longer cook times, I had to with top round after some tenderness fails. Regardless thanks for posting, this is always helpful to see less then perfect versus always great!!!




Thank You Troutman!!
My feelings exactly!!
I'll be gradually trying longer times on these Chucks, because I only buy "Choice", but some of them seem to need more breaking down.  I'm on it. I'll probably try 27 hours on the next one, and see where I go from there.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

lovethemeats said:


> Yep. You never know what that cow was doing out in the pasture. It's diet.
> Age before butchering. How long the meat was aged before going to the store. Just a tuff ole cow. Luck of the draw when getting meat at the stores. You just don't know till its done and your eating.



Yup!
I just wish I would know which one was going to be tough, so I could adjust the time.
Tasted Great though!!

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 22, 2018)

dr k said:


> I yet have to do a chucky but did a bottom round roast that was recommended for 2-3 days and the top round at 1-2 days.  I did the bottom round at 135*F for 56 hours that was great but we're not comparing the same roasts.  I vaguely recall that I read after 50 hours the texture of meat is softer going towards mushy but didn't experience that.  I may stick to two days but something came up and being pasturized I got to it when I could.
> 
> This is from A Practical Guide to Sou Vide Cooking under tough meat.  The last sentence caught my eye.
> At lower temperatures (120°F/50°C to 150°F/ 65°C), Bouton and Harris (1981) found that tough cuts of beef (from animals 0–4 years old) were the most tender when cooked to between 131°F and 140°F (55°C and 60°C). Cooking the beef for 24 hours at these temperatures significantly increased its tenderness (with shear forces decreasing 26%–72% compared to 1 hour of cooking). This tenderizing is caused by weakening of connective tissue and proteolytic enzymes decreasing myofibrillar tensile strength. Indeed, collagen begins to dissolve into gelatin above 122°F to 131°F (50°C to 55°C) (Neklyudov, 2003; This, 2006). Moreover, the sarcoplasmic protein enzyme collagenase remains active below 140°F (60°C) and can significantly tenderize the meat if held for more than 6 hours (Tornberg, 2005). This is why beef chuck roast cooked in a 131°F–140°F (55°C–60°C) water bath for 24–48 hours has the texture of filet mignon.



Kurt,
None of that is the problem.
The problem is the same cut of meat done the exact same way can be Perfectly Fork Tender on one Choice Roast, and very Tough on another Choice Roast. I'm working to figure out where the line is that I can use to make the Tough roast Fork Tender without ruining the texture of the one that doesn't need the extra time, because you can't tell ahead of time which one it is.  I'll get it figured out.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 23, 2018)

SmokinAl said:


> Too bad it didn't come out as expected!
> But the photo's sure make it look good!
> Al



Thank You Al !!
Yes it tasted Great, but it wasn't Fork Tender like the others, and I won't stop experimenting until I can make them ALL Tender!!
And Thanks for the Like.

Bear


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## tallbm (Feb 23, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> None that I know of. I wish there was!!
> This one was trying to fall apart when I was searing it. but it was tough to chew.
> 
> It's hard to nail down how to make these, because of the occasional bad one.
> ...



Since I've never SV cooked before I may be a little confused due to my ignorance so please Bear with me ;)
Would it be possible to pull the Chuck from the SV bath when you normally do.
Remove it from the bag and put on plate.
Then use a fork to do a test cut into it in a 1-3 places to see if it is fork tender?
If not throw it into another bag and right back into the SV bath for a few more hours.  Rinse, repeat.

Again I am very ignorant on the actual SV operation.  I get the SV cooking concepts but there is a lot I don't know because reading vs doing are two different animals :)


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## Bearcarver (Feb 23, 2018)

tallbm said:


> Since I've never SV cooked before I may be a little confused due to my ignorance so please Bear with me ;)
> Would it be possible to pull the Chuck from the SV bath when you normally do.
> Remove it from the bag and put on plate.
> Then use a fork to do a test cut into it in a 1-3 places to see if it is fork tender?
> ...




I would imagine you could do that, but if I did that, I would want to use Zip-locks instead of Vacuum packs, so I could do it easily & not have to Vac Pack it each time I would check it. And My Sous Vide Supreme isn't set up good to use Zip locks.
However since even when they are a little tough, they still taste Great, so I don't mind doing multiple Chuckies for testing.

Bear


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## tallbm (Feb 23, 2018)

bearcarver said:


> I would imagine you could do that, but if I did that, I would want to use Zip-locks instead of Vacuum packs, so I could do it easily & not have to Vac Pack it each time I would check it. And My Sous Vide Supreme isn't set up good to use Zip locks.
> However since even when they are a little tough, they still taste Great, so I don't mind doing multiple Chuckies for testing.
> 
> Bear



Ah, I understand.  
I just didn't have a clue if something with SV really prevented that option.
I like your approach a lot because you get to eat more amazing beef as you test :)


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## Bearcarver (Feb 24, 2018)

zwiller said:


> So was it a little tough....  I bet it was still awesome.




Thank You Much!!
And Thanks for the Like.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 24, 2018)

idahopz said:


> Still looks great, John - especially the pic with the bread and gravy.  Sometimes like with other tough cuts that should be tneder, it is all about the individual cow.



Thank You PZ !!
Yup---That was the only thing I ever ordered when I was a Kid & my Parents & I would stop at a restaurant on the way home from the Mountains. And the same thing Bear Jr always ordered for years, when the 3 of us stopped at a Restaurant.
And Thanks for the Like.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Feb 24, 2018)

gary s said:


> Great info and pics as usual  Looked great, sometimes you just get a tougher piece of meat.
> 
> Gary,




Thank You Gary!!
And for the Like.

Bear


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