# Dutch Oven for Oval Loafs?  Also how much rosemary?



## sandyut (Feb 8, 2021)

i have been using my Lodge Dutch oven for round loaves and would like to hear what others use for oval loaves.  I found some CI rectangular Dutch over like items but they are kinda spendy.

what do you use for oval / baguette SD loaves

Topic #2 - rosemary SD.  how much fresh rosemary should I add to my dough for a rosemary SD?

thank for the assist!


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## BGKYSmoker (Feb 8, 2021)

i have seen those oval pans.
if your on FB there is a group sourdough for beginners but they show other kinds and pans and such.


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## oldsmokerdude (Feb 8, 2021)

I use a ceramic cloche to bake both rounds (boule) and ovals (batards). It is similar to a dutch oven but ceramic, so I don't see why you couldn't use your Dutch oven for ovals. For "baguettes" (not really a baguette because they are much shorter) I just bake in the oven and try to add steam best I can with a cast iron skillet and a sprayer.


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 8, 2021)

I don't know what you call Spendy, but this would get 'er done and is about  $30 to $60 less then several posted. There are other vendors as well..JJ








						Camp Chef Golden Spike 12-quart Cast Iron Roaster
					

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## thirdeye (Feb 8, 2021)

Following this. Mrs ~t~ is thinking about getting an oval Dutch Oven for bread too.

We have a vintage Magnalite, which I love, but its a roaster not a baker and aluminum is way different than CI. We also have a vintage  Romertopf, it's the un-glazed one, so that might be an option too.


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 8, 2021)

I cant think of a reason why an Aluminum Roaster would not work just as well as CI to Bake Bread...
Both are excellent conductors, both Trap Steam and a lump of Bread Dough is not enough Mass to drop the temp in an Aluminum Roaster that it can't recover, absorbing the Oven Heat. Aluminum absorbs and  conducts Heat faster  than CI...JJ


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## thirdeye (Feb 8, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> I cant think of a reason why an Aluminum Roaster would not work just as well as CI to Bake Bread...
> Both are excellent conductors, both Trap Steam and a lump of Bread Dough is not enough Mass to drop the temp in an Aluminum Roaster that it can't recover, absorbing the Oven Heat. Aluminum absorbs and  conducts Heat faster  than CI...JJ


Conductors of heat for both, and fast...., yes.  *Maybe* it's the "soaking heat" capabilities of cast iron that is an advantage?  Al is a good conductor, but it cools quickly where CI does not.

The dynamics of heat transfer are important in my business of welding so I hope tossing some  idears on the table will be constructive.


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 8, 2021)

Please explain Soaking Heat. And is Soaking Heat a factor in Baking Bread in a Steam Injecting Baker's Oven?

Here's my train of thought...
Bread bakes just fine in the Hot Air of a Standard Oven however, add Steam for the first 15 to 30 minutes, and a Crisp Crust is the result. A standard home oven provides a relatively stable temp, 15°F swings  are not uncommon,  as there is no PID, and will bake a great loaf. The problem is home ovens are well vented and injecting and holding Steam for the time needed is impossible. This is the benefit of Baking Bread in a Enclosed Environment like a DO. The heat within uses moisture in the dough to make Steam and the enclosure of the DO holds it in for the required time to do its magic. The DO lid is then removed and only the hot air in the oven finishes the cook, temp swings and all.
So does it really matter what that enclosure you are baking in is made of?
Interesting stuff...JJ☺


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## forktender (Feb 8, 2021)

I'm not so sure that it does JJ I've made great S.D bread using a cookie sheet and a glass cake dome for years.
Sure aluminum drops heat faster than C.I. but it also reheats to the oven temp much quicker than C.I. so which is better? One could argue in either direction I guess. It's not "rocket surgery" use what you have there is a learning curve to damn near everything we cook that's half the fun profecting things in my opinion.
People get way to caught up in needing this or that in reality they need to learn how to adapt to what they have on hand unless they have endless funds to buy kitchen garbage, I don't, so I find workarounds for most everything I cook. Just like I was taught by Nona it's not what you use it's how you use it.


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## Omnivore (Feb 9, 2021)

It depends on how drastic of an oval shape you want. I switched from using round bannetons to oval bannetons and was able to keep using the same large round dutch oven as before. I had about 1.5 inches of space left around my round loaves when using this pot so it was plenty for my oval loaves. I've used a pullman pan with success to make rustic loaves that have more of a sandwich bread shape. I use a higher hydration dough and keep the lid on for most of the bake in these . I think for baguettes you just have to play around with adding steam to your oven. I just love bread, despite what my shrinking pants say lol.


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## thirdeye (Feb 9, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> *Please explain Soaking Heat. And is Soaking Heat a factor in Baking Bread in a Steam Injecting Baker's Oven?*
> 
> Here's my train of thought...
> Bread bakes just fine in the Hot Air of a Standard Oven however, add Steam for the first 15 to 30 minutes, and a Crisp Crust is the result. A standard home oven provides a relatively stable temp, 15°F swings  are not uncommon,  as there is no PID, and will bake a great loaf. The problem is home ovens are well vented and injecting and holding Steam for the time needed is impossible. This is the benefit of Baking Bread in a Enclosed Environment like a DO. The heat within uses moisture in the dough to make Steam and the enclosure of the DO holds it in for the required time to do its magic. The DO lid is then removed and only the hot air in the oven finishes the cook, temp swings and all.
> ...



I don't know anything about a steam injecting bakers oven, but I have seen the ads for the new Anova oven, it has a water reservoir on the side... is that along the lines of a steam oven?

Soaking heat, from a metallurgical point of view, is slowly heating steel before welding so you have a large area that is pre-heated. For this example, when a weld is made, the surrounding steel is hot enough that it doesn't conduct heat away from the weld joint.  When welding aluminum, heat management is very important because of it's conductivity. 

So here are my thoughts on cast steel (iron).  Cast iron is *not* really a good conductor of heat.  It has a large coarse grain structure and is porous (which is why it has to be seasoned).  Conductivity wise, aluminum is much better, copper is a lot better, gold would be amazing!   Anyways, cast iron's low conductivity of heat is what makes it a good choice for cooking and baking because once it does get hot it holds heat well.  And if it's heated slowly (soaking heat) the heat is very even.  You've probably noticed when you are using a CI skillet it takes a low burner setting to maintain the heat.  The quality of the casting material and process is serious bragging rights. My vintage Wagner and Griswold items are collectible..... but they are also great for cooking.  Lodge also has a great process, and some CI from Taiwan is pretty good but it lacks in finish work. 

Back to the issues we had with Magnalite roaster.... and the design could have something to do with it.  Wagner advertised it's Magnalite cookware as having a bottom 'two silver dollars thick' and sides that taper in thickness toward the rim.  This is for conductivity on the stove top and it works great for this.   In the oven at 400° it equalized well enough, but we had some loaves that were either gummy on the inside, or over browned.  Same recipe, same temps. I can't put my finger on it.   Bread in a CI Dutch oven is much more consistent.  Here is some sourdough from last night, it comes out like clockwork.


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## chef jimmyj (Feb 9, 2021)

Interesting and thanks for the info. That Loaf is Beautiful!
Yes, the Anova, Sooo Sweet,, is the first, that I know of, home Steam injection, aka, Combi Oven for home use. Pricey, but once the concept takes off there will be plenty of Cheaper competetative Ovens available...Let's hope.
Modern Bread  Bakers Ovens work much like any other oven as far as heating to bake bread, but have the addition of Steam Injection and the ability to vent the steam quickly. They are programmable where temp, steam injection time, duration and evacuation and baking time is entered and all that is left is to add the Shaped and Risen Loaves and hit Start. 
My first job, 14 years old, was a Baker's Assistant. The job was mostly Grunt work, humping around 50 pound sacks of ingredients for the Old Guy Bakers,  but those guys taught me a lot about the how and why things are done. 25 years later as a Chef, I was invited  to spend a week training at a huge Bakery in Philly that made Award Winning Croissants and a week with an Artisan Baker in Lancaster, PA. Both had huge Steam Injection Ovens that were simply amazing and amazingly Expensive...JJ


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## thirdeye (Feb 10, 2021)

chef jimmyj said:


> Yes, the Anova, Sooo Sweet,, is the first, that I know of, home Steam injection, aka, Combi Oven for home use. Pricey, but once the concept takes off there will be plenty of Cheaper competetative Ovens available...Let's hope.
> Modern Bread Bakers Ovens work much like any other oven as far as heating to bake bread, but have the addition of Steam Injection and the ability to vent the steam quickly.



That makes total sense.  I'm kind of glad we don't have the room for a counter top oven.


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