# cure question



## smokerjim (Sep 25, 2018)

I have been using pops brine for a couple years now for bacon,ham, venison ham, and it always comes out great but I've never tried a dry cure, I'm looking for a good proven dry cure for some buck board bacon.anyone have a favorite dry cure. Thanks


----------



## tropics (Sep 25, 2018)

http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html


----------



## buzzy (Sep 25, 2018)

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/buckboard-bacon-step-by-step.268717/


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Sep 25, 2018)

https://oldfatguy.ca/?p=4209

Disco's blog uses Pink Salt 1.

Bear's Step by Step uses Tenderquick. Both turn out great!


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 25, 2018)

Im a convert. I used to use pops brine with much success. The diggingdogfarm method posted above is excellent, but found measuring and weighing and calculating every piece of meat and ingredients was tedious. The tenderquick method buzzy posted that Bear uses is by far much more simple. However... tenderquick also has nitrate in it that is not needed or desirable for bacon. Morton does not recommend it for use in bacon. The USDA does not allow the use of nitrate in commercially produced bacon. There is a tenderquick substitute you can make that does not have nitrate in it, and can be used at the same 1T per lb of meat. (also by diggingdogfarm).

17.5 oz salt (I use pickling salt)
5.0 oz sugar
2 oz cure #1

It's super easy to use...…
For dry curing....use one tablespoon (1/2 oz.) per pound of meat.
For curing ground meats such as sausage....use 1/2 tablespoon (1/4 oz.) per pound of meat...it provides ALL the cure and the salt for the recipe.....no additional salt is needed.

I add 1-2 additional Tablespoons of brown sugar for every Tablespoon of tenderquick substitute for bacon, ham, Canadian bacon, buckboard bacon etc. Mix together and coat the meat and place in a ziplock bag flipping daily.

Simple, safe, takes up less space, and OH SO DELICIOUS!


----------



## JckDanls 07 (Sep 25, 2018)

browneyesvictim said:


> There is a tenderquick substitute you can make that does not have nitrate in it, and can be used at the same 1T per lb of meat. (also by diggingdogfarm).
> 
> 17.5 oz salt (I use pickling salt)
> 5.0 oz sugar
> ...



I'm confused..  isn't there the possibility of not getting enough cure in one of those Tablespoons full though  ?


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 25, 2018)

JckDanls 07 said:


> I'm confused..  isn't there the possibility of not getting enough cure in one of those Tablespoons full though  ?



No. When mixed together as described, it is distributed quite well. Even if it was off by quite a bit, it will still fall within the recommended range of allowance. Tenderquick has been around a long time and very successful that way. So many other variables... fat/meat ratio, with or without skin, bone-in or boneless, etc. Still far more accurate than commercially pumped bacon.


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 25, 2018)

JckDanls 07 said:


> I'm confused..  isn't there the possibility of not getting enough cure in one of those Tablespoons full though  ?




Right, That's why I would never hand mix a TQ copy. You can't keep it mixed properly.

Tender Quick is processed so it stays mixed forever. I can take the first TBS out of the bag, and 2 years later the last TBS from the Bag (#64 TBS) will have the same amount of Salt, Sugar, and cure in it.

When you mix Salt, Sugar, and Cure by hand, you will never get it mixed perfectly even throughout a 25.5 ounce mixture.

Bear


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Sep 25, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> Yes the potential is there to get too little or too much if not mixed thoroughly. I am a firm believer in making the cure to match the meat instead of using bulks made cure to match the meat. It just more accurate.
> 
> While I am not scared of nitrate/nitrite when used properly. If a recipe calculates out to need 6.73g of cure I don't want 6.72g or 6.74g.


I'm pretty darn exacting with cure amounts as well. Fortunately I know actually giving my self nitrite toxicity or what ever it would be called would be hard to do, but I still strictly follow the amounts. It's these guys I read of who decide 'and then I dump in pink salt 1 to be safe' or 'well I don't know, I used saltpeter' or some thing that make me worry.


----------



## bregent (Sep 25, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> I believe this calculator is in need of some correction. Type in a 100g for the meat and adjust the salt to 3% and it caculates the amount of salt needed is 2.77g??



No, it's correct. Recall that Cure #1 is MOSTLY salt.


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 25, 2018)

Bearcarver said:


> Right, That's why I would never hand mix a TQ copy. You can't keep it mixed properly.
> 
> Tender Quick is processed so it stays mixed forever. I can take the first TBS out of the bag, and 2 years later the last TBS from the Bag (#64 TBS) will have the same amount of Salt, Sugar, and cure in it.
> 
> ...


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you Bear. No doubt, using the EXACT cure calculator is of course the most accurate way for a dry brine. But you will have a hard time convincing me a "hand mix" tenderquick substitute will be any less effective- god forbid "Dangerous" than Morton makes it.

Remember The maximum 200 ppm input to the total raw formulation weight (before cooking, smoking, etc.) except bacon. For bacon, the maximum level of use for nitrite is 120 ppm input to the total raw formulation weight. Also, since the skin retains practically no cure agent, the maximum nitrite limits are supposed to be reduced by 10%. (By the way.. don't forget to change the calculator from the default of 156.)Anyway, These are MAXIMUMS!!! Does a dry cure HAVE to be calculated at the maximum ppm to be effective?- NO.

Even IF a "hand mix" substitute is not mixed properly and is of by say.. 10% or even 20% (which it wont), it is still going to do the job and not be "dangerous" There is no such thing as Partially-cured. It either is- or it isn't cured. As I said it will still be more accurate than commercially pumped bacon.


----------



## motocrash (Sep 25, 2018)

smokerjim,As confusing as all this might be,I have to point out the following statement is false.


Holly2015 said:


> So the "dry cure" is the following in red. It doesn't get simpler and it doesn't change
> 
> *Salt 3%
> Sugar 0.5%
> ...



The salt and sugar can be adjusted to your tastes.
I suggest using Martins (diggingdogfarm) tried and true calculator also.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 25, 2018)

1/4 tsp #1 or #2 per pound of meat depending on short or long curing, add whatever you want after that. Don't try to be a scientist and measure granules, just dumb.


----------



## JckDanls 07 (Sep 25, 2018)

Lets not throw cure #2 into this discussion and create more confusion...


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Sep 25, 2018)

JckDanls 07 said:


> Lets not throw cure #2 into this discussion and create more confusion...


Agreed there.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 25, 2018)

Like a lot of USDA guidlines, recommended cure amounts are designed to be effective and safe. Even though 200ppm is the recommend max, 201 or even 250ppm is not toxic. For 5 pounds of sausage, 2268g you use 5.66g of Cure #1(156ppm). A toxic amount of cure #1 is 16g in 5 pounds, about 3X more than recommended. AND THAT HAS TO BE EATEN RAW AND ALL AT ONCE, as cure dissipates when heated.  So, debating teaspoons over grams or make your own cure mix vs use a commercially prepared mix is pointless.  The amounts you would have to add to the meat and the quantity of raw product you would have to eat makes it EXTREMELY diffificult to kill yourself.

I, in no way advocate adding random amounts of Cure. Follow guidelines set by the USDA and recipes posted by members of SMF. But there is no need to argue over another members preferred means of measuring safe amounts...


Just some info...Commercially pumped anything, bacon, ham, corned beef, has to have an approved cure percentage, typically 120 to 200 ppm. There are exceptions based on approved and tested use of other additives or curing procedures.
 Not only is the packer responsible for sample testing and data keeping, but USDA Inspectors will verify packers cure mixes are within spec and review test data. You won't find more accuracy than that in commercially cured meat or by any home enthusiast...JJ


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 25, 2018)

JckDanls 07 said:


> Lets not throw cure #2 into this discussion and create more confusion...


Ham was mentioned , is not #2 involved?


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 25, 2018)

JckDanls 07 said:


> Lets not throw cure #2 into this discussion and create more confusion...


Same per pound no confusion.


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 26, 2018)

Thanks to everyone, it's very interesting  to see how everyone does things a little different but basically comes out with the same results, delicious  home smoked meats, I'll probably  be starting to cure this weekend ,I will let everyone know how I make out. Thanks again to everyone and as always more comments are always welcome, I love reading everyone's  post and keep learning, this dry curing is all new to me.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 26, 2018)

MeatSkull said:


> Ham was mentioned , is not #2 involved?



No Sir. Cure #2 is used for long Dry Curing. This is done at a controlled temp, 50 to 60°F (in The Danger Zone) and high humidity, 65 to 80%. A very comfortable environment for bacterial growth. In fact,  we are Counting on good bacteria and mold growth to inhibit bad bacteria growth and to convert the Nitrate in Cure #2 to Nitrite, over time, months, to kill the really nasty Clostridium Botulinum and keep Fat in the meat from turning rancid.
Cure #1 is short acting, weeks to a month or two, and it's job, containing only Nitrite, is exclusively for killing CB and inhibiting fat rancidity. 
Since Dry Curing and using Cure #2 require very specific conditions, it's use is not for beginners trying to grasp the very basics of using Cure #1 and the reason for JD's comment that Cure #2 can add to confusion...JJ


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 26, 2018)

browneyesvictim said:


> I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you Bear. No doubt, using the EXACT cure calculator is of course the most accurate way for a dry brine. But you will have a hard time convincing me a "hand mix" tenderquick substitute will be any less effective- god forbid "Dangerous" than Morton makes it.
> 
> Remember The maximum 200 ppm input to the total raw formulation weight (before cooking, smoking, etc.) except bacon. For bacon, the maximum level of use for nitrite is 120 ppm input to the total raw formulation weight. Also, since the skin retains practically no cure agent, the maximum nitrite limits are supposed to be reduced by 10%. (By the way.. don't forget to change the calculator from the default of 156.)Anyway, These are MAXIMUMS!!! Does a dry cure HAVE to be calculated at the maximum ppm to be effective?- NO.
> 
> Even IF a "hand mix" substitute is not mixed properly and is of by say.. 10% or even 20% (which it wont), it is still going to do the job and not be "dangerous" There is no such thing as Partially-cured. It either is- or it isn't cured. As I said it will still be more accurate than commercially pumped bacon.




Like most things on here, everyone has an opinion.
As for this subject I have some opinions, and some things I've read years ago:
Such as I read that Mortons processes their Tender Quick to eliminate the problem of Stratification.

So I didn't say you or others shouldn't make their own make believe TQ, I'm just saying I would not do it myself!!!

Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are *bonded*.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.  

This is why I use Tender Quick for all my curing needs.
I figure if Bonding wasn't needed to avoid Stratification, Morton wouldn't have wasted their Time & money to do it.

Another of my "Opinions" is that I will not use Cure #1 to Dry Cure, because I can see no way to distribute 1tsp of Cure #1 evenly over 5 pounds of Pork Belly, and mixing it with Salt & Sugar doesn't help, because you could end up with mostly salt on one End of a Belly & mostly Cure on the other. So If I was going to use Cure #1 for curing, I would use the Brine curing like Pops Does, because once the Cure is dissolved in Water, it is evenly distributed throughout, just like the Real Tender Quick is during a Dry Cure.

However I'll repeat these are just MY OPINIONS, and others can do what they want to do.

Bear


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 26, 2018)

Thank you for your explanation Bear. That clears up a lot! ...Now if those dang nitrosamines didn't get in the way!

"Make believe tenderquick"… ROTFL!!!


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 26, 2018)

browneyesvictim said:


> Thank you for your explanation Bear. That clears up a lot! ...*Now if those dang nitrosamines didn't get in the way!*
> 
> "Make believe tenderquick"… ROTFL!!!




No Problem---DON"T BURN YOUR BACON !!!

Bear


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 26, 2018)

Bearcarver said:


> DON"T BURN YOUR BACON !!!



Agreed. That sacrilege right there! But mama likes hers "crispy". When she cooks it in a pan, I don't think she knows the burner has more than two settings... "Off", and "High". Baking it in the oven is where its at for me!


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 26, 2018)

I


Bearcarver said:


> No Problem---DON"T BURN YOUR BACON !!!
> 
> Bear



Or do what Grandma's and Mom's have taught for years. Drink Orange Juice or eat Fresh Fruit as part of a balanced breakfast. 
The Vitamin C,  antioxidant, inhibits the formation of Nitrosamine...JJ


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Sep 26, 2018)

I like my bacon crispy but not burnt!


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 26, 2018)

browneyesvictim said:


> Agreed. That sacrilege right there! But mama likes hers "crispy". When she cooks it in a pan, I don't think she knows the burner has more than two settings... "Off", and "High". Baking it in the oven is where its at for me!




LOL----I like Bacon any way you make it except Microwave.
And done any amount, except Burnt. When I was a Kid, when Mom wasn't looking I used to grab a raw piece of Bacon & chew on it like Bubble Gum. It would last for hours!!:rolleyes:

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 26, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> I
> 
> 
> Or do what Grandma's and Mom's have taught for years. Drink Orange Juice or eat Fresh Fruit as part of a balanced breakfast.
> The Vitamin C,  antioxidant, inhibits the formation of Nitrosamine...JJ




Yup---I read that one awhile back too.
Thanks Jimmy!

Bear


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 26, 2018)

Morton should go to market with a "Bacon" cure. It will be nitrateless and have ascorbate or sodium erythorbate built into it.


----------



## buzzy (Sep 26, 2018)

Hold up!! Are u guys telling me I’ve been making BAD bacon all these year with TQ. Because of nitrates. I got the recipe from their thin cheap paper back book. Say it ain’t so. I still have some left. Oh bye the way we do oven bake it not burn it


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 26, 2018)

As a final comment ...When dry brining- whether I have used tenderquick, the " Morton make believe" cure, the cure calculator, or whatever... liquid gets pulled out and makes a concentrated "wet" brine of sorts in the bag anyway. The cure, salt, sugar and any other aromatics get 100% distributed in that slurry flipping daily. Therefore, in my opinion, I don't see the difference in which method of "dry" brine is used, 100% distribution will occur.


----------



## daveomak (Sep 26, 2018)




----------



## JckDanls 07 (Sep 26, 2018)

Browneyes ...  it's obvious you can do as you darn well please ... I would just suggest not using this practice ..  especially if a bigger "batch" is made each time creating even more possibilities of something going wrong ... Just looking at the SAFER side ...


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 26, 2018)

browneyesvictim said:


> As a final comment ...When dry brining- whether I have used tenderquick, the " Morton make believe" cure, the cure calculator, or whatever... liquid gets pulled out and makes a concentrated "wet" brine of sorts in the bag anyway. The cure, salt, sugar and any other aromatics get 100% distributed in that slurry flipping daily. Therefore, in my opinion, I don't see the difference in which method of "dry" brine is used, 100% distribution will occur.




Well then, just throw the meat in a bag, then the cure on top, on a lump, & close it up.
No need to spread it around, or try to evenly coat it on all sides.
It's gonna get flipped every day, it'll be fine.

No thanks, I'll spread my TQ out over the whole thing. Then I'll flip it every day to give each side equal time.

Bear


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 26, 2018)

I was going to do 4 boneless butt 3 to 4 pounds each, maybe I'll 2 with bear carvers recipe and 2 with brown eyes and see if I see diference.


----------



## chopsaw (Sep 26, 2018)

smokerjim said:


> I was going to do 4 boneless butt 3 to 4 pounds each, maybe I'll 2 with bear carvers recipe and 2 with brown eyes and see if I see diference.


Jim , you're just starting out . Use something tried and true . I would stay away from the pre mix . Try tender quick or use cure one and the calculater  . Weigh the meat  then figure the rest to match the meat weight .


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Sep 26, 2018)

chopsaw said:


> Jim , you're just starting out . Use something tried and true . I would stay away from the pre mix . Try tender quick or use cure one and the calculater  . Weigh the meat  then figure the rest to match the meat weight .


Yep, stick with some thing proven. You screw this up and you could be eating meat that can land you in the hospital remember.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 26, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> So the "dry cure" is the following in red. It doesn't get simpler and it doesn't change
> 
> *Salt 3%
> Sugar 0.5%
> ...


 You can add that to water and make a wet brine, no difference.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 26, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> Yes the potential is there to get too little or too much if not mixed thoroughly. I am a firm believer in making the cure to match the meat instead of using bulk made cure to match the meat. It just more accurate.
> 
> While I am not scared of nitrate/nitrite when used properly. If a recipe calculates out to need 6.73g of cure I don't want 6.72g or 6.74g.


So you are sure that your scale is properly calibrated? Now I mean properly calibrated to the dime by Govt.! .72 to .73 or .74 is a range you are worried about. Let us all know the outcome as I'm curious.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 26, 2018)

daveomak said:


> View attachment 376996


:confused:


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 26, 2018)

Gotta love when folks believe they are the admins of the company's that make the product! Sheesh!


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 26, 2018)

When I was teaching I would take the students to an area slaughter house and butcher. Nell's did all the processing, curing and smoking on site. Their brine cured and smoked hams were the best I have eaten. The brine was injected then the hams soaked. They processed hundreds of hams a week. The brine was mixed in varying batches from 10 to 100 gallons as needed. Do you think they weighed and dumped individual ingredients? Nope... The salt, sugar, cure #1 and seasoning mix came in boxes, mixed off site by another company. The cure came 50 boxes to a pallet. The amount of cure needed, for various sized batches, was scooped, weighed and mixed in to the water. If separation of the ingredients was causing problems, there is no way this 3 generationcompany would still be in business. Nell and Sons brought in and drew mix from a Ton of cure mix. Armour, Mash's and many other National ham producer's must be bringing in TRAIN CAR LOADS of bulk cure. The cure stored in silos. I highly doubt cure separation, to toxic or ineffectual levels are an issue to worry, or argue, about whatsoever.
If pre-mixing is convenient for your nneeds, make your mix, following a trusted formula, give the container a shake before each use and enjoy your ham...JJ


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 26, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> Wet "cure" (salt, sugar and curing salt) is based on quantities of water. Dry "cures" (salt, sugar and curing salt) are based on the weight of the meat.
> 
> Please do not suggest to anyone that to make a "wet" cure you simply take dry cure amounts (3%, .5% & .25%) and add enough water to it to cover a cut of meat.



Why Not? Does it really make a difference if the moisture comes from the meat or 4, even 8 ounces of water is added to get things going?

There is just too much Fear Mongering, deliberate or in good faith, regarding BASIC wet and dry curing with Cure #1. Newbies will be sent Sceaming into the Night reading some of these posts.

Let's see if your answer to the following is based on accurate knowledge or misunderstanding of Cure #1.
Don't be afraid to be wrong. If we already knew it all, we would not need to be here...

Which of the following is Dangerous?
They all have different amounts of meat, cure, and water. Some are volume measured others by Weight...

Recipe 1...Add 1 Tablespoon Cure #1, 1 cup Table Salt and  2 Cups Sugar to 1 Gallon of Water. Add one or more pork bellies, not packing too tightly and making sure the meat is covered by the brine. Refrigerate the meat and Brine for 7 days per inch thickness of the bellies.

Recipe 2...Add the following to a pot. Bring to just to a boil, cool, then refrigerate until cold.  Add a 2 to 4 pound porkloin. Soak 72 hours and smoke.

2 liters water or 2 quarts of water
90 grams (6 tablespoons Morton’s) kosher salt
20 grams  (1 tablespoons) sodium nitrite (I use DQ Cure #1)
125 grams sugar or 4 ounces (1/2 cup)
5 cloves garlic smashed with the flat side of a knife
2 bay leaves
1 large bunch of sage (optional)
7 or 8 thyme sprigs (optional)
1 lemon halved (optional)
Recipe 3...Weigh the following ingredients to 2 decimal places and combine. Cure for 7 days per inch then rest an additional 7 days to equalize the cure ingredient distribution.

1) Weigh the desired piece of Skinless pork belly or Loin in grams.
2) Weigh the amount of water needed to cover by 1 to 2 inches.
3) Weigh out an amount of Salt, any, to equal 2% of the combined weight of the meat and water.
4) Weigh out an amount of Sugar to equal 1% of the combined weight of the meat and water.
5) Add the weight of all ingredients together.
6) Weigh out an amount of Cure #1 that equals 0.25% of the combined weights of all other ingredients. Mix thoroughly and add tube meat.

Good luck...JJ


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 27, 2018)

I'll go with number 2, what I've read here is you shouldn't add the cure until after you boil and cool the other ingredients, also shouldn't you go by the thickness of the meat and not so much the weight   to see how long to cure. Since some loins are thicker then others.I'm not worried I'm usually  wrong anyway.


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 27, 2018)

I could be wrong  but I think I remember reading on s m f you shouldn't add the cure until the liquid cools SO the cure doesn't start to break down, maybe I miss read, please let me know if I wrong


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 27, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> I highly doubt cure separation, to toxic or ineffectual levels are an issue to worry, or argue, about whatsoever.
> If pre-mixing is convenient for your nneeds, make your mix, following a trusted formula, give the container a shake before each use and enjoy your ham...JJ



Thanks JJ. I knew I wasn't crazy. I wasn't expecting so many other seasoned doubting Mufastas.

@Holly2015- Please read step#5 in recipe #3. The weight of the water should be added in the total calculation in that method.


EDIT: Recipe #2 is "DANGEROUS" recipe choice not because of the recipe itself, but rather the technique. This is because you do not want to add cure to hot water or boil it. You can boil the water to purify it, and even add the other ingredients (minus cure) first to help dissolve. then add cure 1 AFTER it has cooled.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

Holly, I think you are misunderstanding what I wrote. Nowhere did I say it's OK to take a dry cure based on the weight of the meat, " mix them into a bucket of water (enough to cover and fully submerse the 1000g meat) "!

 My words, " Does it really make a difference if the moisture comes from the meat or 4, even 8 ounces of water is added to get things going?

You are correct, 2.5g of Cure #1 in a Gallon or more of water is at least 10X too little and will not be effective.

Regarding Recipe 1. I apologize. In my haste I neglected to include the cure time and temp. I edited the instructions. Please see if you wish to change your answer.

Read #3 again. Step 1) Weigh meat. Step 2) Weigh water.

I want to give a little more time to let other members answer. I will post the answer later tonite...JJ


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> I posted:
> 
> _Wet "cure" (salt, sugar and curing salt) is based on quantities of water. Dry "cures" (salt, sugar and curing salt) are based on the weight of the meat.
> 
> ...



Oh ok, You seem to be thinking MeatSkull is placing the meat in a large container and adding quarts or gallons of water. I didn't read it that way. My interpretation was adding a small amount of water making a wet brine to get things going. This is why I specified 4 to 8 ounces. I should have given MeatSkull an opportunity to clarify for himself after your response.
 This how vague or incomplete posts can lead to misinterpretation and debate, thankfully enjoyable and not heated or ugly. Thanks for your friendly choice of words in successive posts ...JJ


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

I agree and am happy to have another knowledgeable member participate in passing on our art...JJ


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 27, 2018)

Holly2015, I went back and read #55, in that line I said shouldn't you which the n't does belong there it's more of a question, if I said  you shouldn't you would be correct. Anyway  all these post just goes to show all the knowledge that is on this site. I have learned and keep learning lots over the last couple years.


----------



## chopsaw (Sep 27, 2018)

I hope you got an answer to your question .


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 27, 2018)

By the way what was my question, only kidding, what I got out of this is members just what people to cure things safely, yes maybe some are perfectionist and overly safe, but that's ok better to error on the side of caution, in the end I will stick with my plan 2 with bear carvers and 2 with browneyes, though I'll cure them this weekend I'm feeling they will basically taste the same.


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 27, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> You are correct. Heat breaks down cure (nitrate/nitrite) so it is not to be added until after the base is cool.
> 
> You are also correct and the cure duration is calculated on meat thickness and not overall weight. This is where you mistakenly added the "n't" to should in post #55.



Jim used "n't" correctly on that, because he formed that sentence as a Question. ("Shouldn't" you go by the Thickness of the Meat?"

And you are both right---Yes, go by the thickness of the meat for curing time, not the Weight.

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 27, 2018)

Somebody please call Mortons & tell them they're wasting a lot of time and Money Bonding their Tender Quick.
The Pros here say it isn't necessary. No such thing as the Stratification they've been avoiding all these years.

Bear


----------



## browneyesvictim (Sep 27, 2018)

Bear, I prefer to handload my own hunting ammo. How about you?
I can shoot better MOA with it than factory loads...


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 27, 2018)

Bear don't get upset, if everyone agreed on the same thing this would be one boring site, believe me I'm no pro and what I've been reading, yes mortons makes it to where mistakes won't be made with calculating , making sure cure is spread evenly , making it a easier process, but I do see the other people's point also that if one is careful there is no issues with making your own, I wonder if there are any studies out there to show how people sicken or kill themselves  curing meats and what they used.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

Bearcarver said:


> Somebody please call Mortons & tell them they're wasting a lot of time and Money Bonding their Tender Quick.
> The Pros here say it isn't necessary. No such thing as the Stratification they've been avoiding all these years.
> 
> Bear



What Morton does is their choice and likely necessary because they are blending Pure Nitrite. YES if that separated to the bottom of a mix, it would be toxic. We are talking mixing in Cure #1, a totally different situation. No one will be hurt because they're Tupperware container of cure mix is not bonded. Other companies mixing cure just shows its a common practice...JJ


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

Which of the following is Dangerous?
They all have different amounts of meat, cure, and water. Some are volume measured others by Weight...

*The answer?  NONE OF THEM ARE DANGEROUS.

The USDA sets the maximum amount of Sodium Nitrite at 120 ppm for Belly Bacon because of typical high heat cooking until crisp. And a max level of 200 for non-commuted meats like Loin Canadian Bacon and Ham. There is a minimum standard of 120 ppm for raw, must be refrigerated, cured meats, again raw Bacon, but there is no minimum standard for cooked or processed meats that have a low pH or low moisture to aid preservation. For safe and adequate cured meat coloration, tests have shown that as little as 40 ppm will get the job done.
Exceptions to the above 120 ppm minimum are granted on a case by case bases when testing demonstrates the manufacturer methods are safe.
From the USDA Inspectors Handbook of standards...

As a matter of policy, the Agency requires a minimum of 120 ppm of ingoing nitrite in all cured
"Keep Refrigerated" products, unless the establishment can demonstrate that safety is assured by
some other preservation process, such as thermal processing, pH or moisture control. This 120
ppm policy for ingoing nitrite is based on safety data reviewed when the bacon standard was
developed.
There is no regulatory minimum ingoing nitrite level for cured products that have been processed
to ensure their shelf stability (such as having undergone a complete thermal process, or having
been subjected to adequate pH controls, and/or moisture controls in combination with appropriate
packaging). However, 40 ppm nitrite is useful in that it has some preservative effect. This
amount has also been shown to be sufficient for color-fixing purposes and to achieve the expected
cured meat or poultry appearance. 

*
Recipe 1...Add 1 Tablespoon Cure #1, 1 cup Table Salt and 2 Cups Sugar to 1 Gallon of Water. Add one or more pork bellies, not packing too tightly and making sure the meat is covered by the brine. Refrigerate the meat and Brine for 7 days per inch thickness of the bellies.
*This first recipe should be familiar as Pop's Brine. It is not only generations old, it has been tested by the USDA to be effective. It's SAFE!*
Recipe 2...Add the following to a pot. Bring to just to a boil, cool, then refrigerate until cold. Add a 2 to 4 pound porkloin. Soak 72 hours and smoke.
*This second recipe is from our beloved Michael Ruhlman. It has been around several decades and has been reviewed by colleagues for accuracy. Now many dismiss it as being unsafe because the Cure #1 gets heated and can dissipate. But considering 20 grams in 2 liters of water is twice what Pop's is using, there is likely some dissipation but the brine cure level does not drop below 40 ppm. Surely the Professor that teaches Meat Curing and Charcuterie at the CIA, were students use this method, would have called Mr. Ruhlman out on any flaws. It too is Safe...But, the members and staff at SMF do not advocate heating Cure #1. There is just not enough control over the residual amount of Nitrite to guarantee success.
*

2 liters water or 2 quarts of water
90 grams (6 tablespoons Morton’s) kosher salt
20 grams (1 tablespoons) sodium nitrite (I use DQ Cure #1)
125 grams sugar or 4 ounces (1/2 cup)
5 cloves garlic smashed with the flat side of a knife
2 bay leaves
1 large bunch of sage (optional)
7 or 8 thyme sprigs (optional)
1 lemon halved (optional)
Recipe 3...Weigh the following ingredients to 2 decimal places and combine. Cure for 7 days per inch then rest an additional 7 days to equalize the cure ingredient distribution.

1) Weigh the desired piece of Skinless pork belly or Loin in grams.
2) Weigh the amount of water needed to cover by 1 to 2 inches.
3) Weigh out an amount of Salt, any, to equal 2% of the combined weight of the meat and water.
4) Weigh out an amount of Sugar to equal 1% of the combined weight of the meat and water.
5) Add the weight of all ingredients together.
6) Weigh out an amount of Cure #1 that equals 0.25% of the combined weights of all other ingredients. Mix thoroughly and add the meat.

*This last recipe, formula really, is from our learned Curing Guru, DaveOmak. I personally know this was years in development and based strictly on extensive review of USDA guidelines and the calculations in the Inspectors Handbook.
100% Safe.

So there you go. If you know the recommended max amount of cure. You are safe but understand it is 3X the max that has to be consumed, In One Sitting, to be Toxic. DON'T beat up or SCARE some Newbie because they are at 250 or even 300 ppm or below 120 ppm. Know what are the correct amounts so you can pass accurate and complete advice. Teach what's correct and how to fix it. 
With a few exceptions, Belly Bacon, Sausage and a few other uncooked meats,  40 ppm to 200 ppm is a Safe amount of Nitrite...JJ *


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 27, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> When I was teaching I would take the students to an area slaughter house and butcher. Nell's did all the processing, curing and smoking on site. Their brine cured and smoked hams were the best I have eaten. The brine was injected then the hams soaked. They processed hundreds of hams a week. The brine was mixed in varying batches from 10 to 100 gallons as needed. Do you think they weighed and dumped individual ingredients? Nope... The salt, sugar, cure #1 and seasoning mix came in boxes, mixed off site by another company. The cure came 50 boxes to a pallet. The amount of cure needed, for various sized batches, was scooped, weighed and mixed in to the water. If separation of the ingredients was causing problems, there is no way this 3 generationcompany would still be in business. Nell and Sons brought in and drew mix from a Ton of cure mix. Armour, Mash's and many other National ham producer's must be bringing in TRAIN CAR LOADS of bulk cure. The cure stored in silos. I highly doubt cure separation, to toxic or ineffectual levels are an issue to worry, or argue, about whatsoever.
> If pre-mixing is convenient for your nneeds, make your mix, following a trusted formula, give the container a shake before each use and enjoy your ham...JJ


Yup! I doubt they ever tested the cures for exact amounts never mind using gram scales.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 27, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> Wet "cure" (salt, sugar and curing salt) is based on quantities of water. Dry "cures" (salt, sugar and curing salt) are based on the weight of the meat.
> 
> Please do not suggest to anyone that to make a "wet" cure you simply take dry cure amounts (3%, .5% & .25%) and add enough water to it to cover a cut of meat.


 Water is inert which means..chemically inactive. The meat will absorb the cure whether 1 cup or one gallon. For this I do use chlorinated tap water.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 27, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> No Sir. Cure #2 is used for long Dry Curing. This is done at a controlled temp, 50 to 60°F (in The Danger Zone) and high humidity, 65 to 80%. A very comfortable environment for bacterial growth. In fact,  we are Counting on good bacteria and mold growth to inhibit bad bacteria growth and to convert the Nitrate in Cure #2 to Nitrite, over time, months, to kill the really nasty Clostridium Botulinum and keep Fat in the meat from turning rancid.
> Cure #1 is short acting, weeks to a month or two, and it's job, containing only Nitrite, is exclusively for killing CB and inhibiting fat rancidity.
> Since Dry Curing and using Cure #2 require very specific conditions, it's use is not for beginners trying to grasp the very basics of using Cure #1 and the reason for JD's comment that Cure #2 can add to confusion...JJ


 Ham is a long cure project, I've made a few in my day.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

Sodium Nitrite is a salt. Like all salts in water, meat contains water as well, the salt will move from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration, until equibrium is reached. This is Dispersion. There will always end up being an equal concentration of Nitrite in the meat and the water. This is why when Brine Curing, we combine the weight of the meat and water when determining the amount of Cure needed. In the end you will have the same concentration in the meat and water, equalibrium...JJ


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 27, 2018)

browneyesvictim said:


> Bear, I prefer to handload my own hunting ammo. How about you?
> I can shoot better MOA with it than factory loads...


 I shoot factory better than most handloaders.  Then again I've been shooting over 50 years. ;)


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 27, 2018)

MeatSkull said:


> Ham is a long cure project, I've made a few in my day.



Ham does take awhile. There is a difference between Brine cured City Ham cured in the refer and Dry Cured meats like Salami, that take months to cure at a bacteria growing 55°F. Wet curing in the refer uses Cure #1. Dry curing at 55°F uses Cure #2. This is because over time Nitrite will dissipate at the warm 55°. Beneficial Bacteria in the Salami breakdown the Nitrate in Cure #2 converting it to New amounts of Nitrite, replacing that which dissipated, and extents the protection from Bad Bacteria...JJ


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 28, 2018)

browneyesvictim said:


> Bear, I prefer to handload my own hunting ammo. How about you?
> I can shoot better MOA with it than factory loads...




If you actually think that is a similar problem, there's nothing I can say.

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 28, 2018)

smokerjim said:


> Bear don't get upset, if everyone agreed on the same thing this would be one boring site, believe me I'm no pro and what I've been reading, yes mortons makes it to where mistakes won't be made with calculating , making sure cure is spread evenly , making it a easier process, but I do see the other people's point also that if one is careful there is no issues with making your own, I wonder if there are any studies out there to show how people sicken or kill themselves  curing meats and what they used.



I agree that if one is very carful, there shouldn't be a problem.
There probably isn't a lot of deaths since they pretty much stopped using Salt Peter (Potassium Nitrate).
All I can do is put my opinion out there, and people can take it or leave it.

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 28, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> What Morton does is their choice and likely necessary because they are blending Pure Nitrite. YES if that separated to the bottom of a mix, it would be toxic. We are talking mixing in Cure #1, a totally different situation. No one will be hurt because they're Tupperware container of cure mix is not bonded. Other companies mixing cure just shows its a common practice...JJ




I agree,
My main worry is if people make a large amount of their own mix, and use it like I use Tender Quick.
I keep the whole 2 pound bag in my cabinet, and take small amounts out now & then, over sometimes a period of more than a year or two. I never take the bag out & re-shake it, or dump it out & stir it, because I know I don't have to because of the way Morton "Bonded" it. I believe if anybody did that with their own "Faux TQ" they could get in trouble at the bottom of the bag.
I would recommend, if people make their own Mix, that they re-mix any leftovers before they use it again & each time they use any of the leftovers.

Bear


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 28, 2018)

Mods Please Delete.

Bear


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 28, 2018)

Im almost afraid to ask but if  I do make my own cure mix, how long will I be able to store it.


----------



## Bearcarver (Sep 28, 2018)

smokerjim said:


> Im almost afraid to ask but if  I do make my own cure mix, how long will I be able to store it.



I would imagine like TQ---Indefinitely, as long as you keep it dry & out of the light.
Just make sure you remix it good before each use, due to Stratification. IMHO.

Bear


----------



## motocrash (Sep 28, 2018)

If you're going to make a batch,I wouldn't make it too big.After all,the idea of using cure #1 is being able to adjust your sugar and salt content to your taste and whatever meat you're curing.For example,I don't use the same ratios when making corned beef/pastrami as I would with buckboard bacon.


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 28, 2018)

Ok thanks


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 28, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> Sodium Nitrite is a salt. Like all salts in water, meat contains water as well, the salt will move from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration, until equibrium is reached. This is Dispersion. There will always end up being an equal concentration of Nitrite in the meat and the water. This is why when Brine Curing, we combine the weight of the meat and water when determining the amount of Cure needed. In the end you will have the same concentration in the meat and water, equalibrium...JJ


Yeah I need FDA proof on that or it's heresay.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 28, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> Honestly how many pieces of meats are you curing on the regular basis? What are you hoping to save building a bulk cure verses building individual cures. If its time over your not saving much.
> 
> I've been curing 1 to 3 pieces every weekend for the last 5 weeks. Building a bulk cure might have saved me 3 minutes total. I still would have to break out the scale to weigh out the individual spice blends so weighing out 3 more ingredients (salt, cure, sugar) really doesn't add a significant amount of time to the process.
> 
> Granted if I was assembly lining 100's of piece of meats per day then I probably use some time saving measures. But since I'm creating mico quantities of boutique cured meats a few extra seconds here and there aren't making or breaking the process.


 Whom you talking to?


----------



## chopsaw (Sep 28, 2018)

Holly , well said .


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 28, 2018)

smokerjim said:


> Im almost afraid to ask but if  I do make my own cure mix, how long will I be able to store it.


 If you make your own I suggest just using #1 or #2 and make what you need at the time. #1 or #2 wont go bad if you keep it sealed.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 28, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> If you mix #1 and #2 together do you get #3?
> 
> Suggesting that you "just" use #1 or #2 is not sage advise. As discussed several times these cures (1 & 2) are not interchangeable and you need to match the cure to the product you are making not "just" pick what's handy!


WOW! I said or! Splain yourself. I think your lost on the subject.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 28, 2018)

Holly2015 said:


> Feel free to seek out the proof you need.  Let us know how you make out.


 Question mark......


----------



## pc farmer (Sep 28, 2018)

Keep it civil you two.  So far this thread as been helping others until you two started bickering.

Keep helpful information coming.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 28, 2018)

MeatSkull said:


> Yeah I need FDA proof on that or it's heresay.



This is not FDA or USDA, it's High School Chemistry 101. Salts and in this case the Sodium Salts, Sodium Chloride (NaCl), table salt and Sodium Nitrite  (NaNO2), in Cure #1, break into Ions when dissolved in water. Ions are chemically charged particles that gain or lose an electron becoming Polar compared to the electrically stable molecules. The Ions are  attracted to ions or compounds with opposite charges and are repelled by like charges. Think Magnets. When you mix Salt and Cure in water, the stable compounds essential dissolve intof various Sodium Ions. The now Brine loaded with tightly packed Like charge ion NEED to separate. Since there is a big chunk of meat with no or few Sodium Ions, into the meat is the only place to go. The Ions move from the High concentration, brine, to the area of Low concentration, meat, until the entire System is in balance aka, Reaches Equilibrium, same amount of Salt and Cure Sodium Ions in the meat and in the brine. Below is a more detailed explanation...

Water is NOT always inert. First Gases can be inert as in they can prevent other chemical reaction or are Non-reactive them selves. Water can be inert when it dissolve a molecule but does not form a new compound. But Water is a Polar Compound. It has both a reactive Positive Charge, the Hydrogen end of the molecule. And a reactive Negative Charge, the double atom Oxygen end of the molecule. Adding electrically stable compounds, Table Salt, Cure and thousands of others, to water will cause them to dissolve as the charged water molecules pull them apart. There are many reaction where water combines to form a new compound.

*Equilibrium Curing*

As a method, equilibrium curing differs from the more traditional methods of packing the meat in salt (the Salt Box Method) or submerging it in a concentrated saline solution (Brining). While traditional methods have the virtue of diffusing a lot of salt (more accurately, sodium ions) into the meat quickly (and thus accelerating curing and preventing spoiling), equilibrium curing has the virtue of eliminating the risk of the cured meat becoming too salty. Thus the equilibrium curing method is less wasteful of curing salts can be particularly useful for beginners.

*Contents*
 [hide]

1 The Method
2 Modified Equilibrium Curing
3 Notes and Limitations
4 Sources
*The Method*
This method is quite straightforward, as long as you know the weight of the meat in the item you're curing and the desired concentration of salt in the final product. When calculating the weight of the meat, you will need to subtract the weight of any bones, which will not absorb salt. (In the case of whole poultry, this can be significant, with bones accounting for up to 40% of total weight of the bird.) To the weight of the meat, add that of the water used (if brining), and then calculate the amount of salt you need. The metric system makes this particularly easy. For example, say you want a final salt concentration in the cured meat of 1.75%. Your meat weighs 0.5kg and you're using 0.5kg (500ml) of water, for 1kg total weight. 1.75% of 1000g is simply 17.5g of salt you will need to dissolve in the water. To be strictly accurate, you would also need to take the weight of the salt into account and add an extra 0.31g to compensate, but in practical terms this is insignificant, as, in the example given, it only lowers the final sodium level by 1.77% for a final concentration in the meat of 1.72% instead of the target of 1.75%. Perhaps a simpler way to do this is to reduce the amount of water in the brine, so that the weight of the water PLUS the cure equals the target weight for the brine.

At first, all this sodium will be in the water and not in the meat, but it will gradually diffuse through the meat until the salt concentration in the meat and the water are the same or in "equilibrium." No matter how long the meat sits in the brine, it cannot become saltier than it, and so there is no risk of over-salting.

Equilibrium brining can be done in a container or in a vacuum-sealed bag. In either case, it's desirable to agitate the water occasionally, in order to keep the sodium evenly dispersed. If vacuum-sealing, you can even eliminate the added water. The desired amount of salt is simply applied to all surfaces of the meat (for 500g of meat, 8.75g of salt will yield a concentration of 1.75%) and vacuum-sealed with it. The salt will extract moisture from the meat and create a concentrated brine around it.

*Modified Equilibrium Curing*
The rate at which sodium ions are absorbed is not linear, but follows a curve, in which the cure enters the meat quite quickly initially and becomes slower over time, taking awhile to reach true equilibrium. A limited test of this method by individuals on the sausagemaking forum found that 50% of the desired amount of sodium had been taken up by the meat in just a few days while full equilibrium was unlikely to be reached in less than about 19 days per kg of meat. As a result of these findings, they recommended a modified equilibrium curing method that significantly reduces the curing time.

Since their test indicated that 85% of equilibrium was reached in about 10 days, they recommend increasing the initial amount of the cure by 17.5% in order to reach the desired sodium concentration in the meat in 10 days or half the time it would take for a true equilibrium cure. Using this modified method, it's important to note that the sodium will not be evenly distributed throughout the meat (as it would if it had reached true equilibrium), and so the meat will still need a resting period after curing to allow the sodium to equalize.

*Notes and Limitations*
If a whole muscle is going to be dried after curing, then the moisture loss during drying has to be taken into account when calculating the salt. For example, if a final salt concentration of 3% is desired, and the meat weighs 1kg, but will eventually be hung to dry until it loses 40% of its weight, ie achieves a final weight of 600g, then the amount of salt needed is 3 X 6 or 18g (assuming no added water).

It is also important to note that vacuum-packing meat with salt is not necessarily the same as equilibrium curing. Unless the meat stays in the cure long enough to reach equilibrium with the brine, this is simply a modified version of the Salt Box Method.

Finally, it's important to understand that the equilibrium is _between_ the meat and the surrounding brine and does not refer to the diffusion of sodium _within_ the meat, although in practice it comes to the same thing. By the time the meat reaches equilibrium with the brine, sodium will be relatively evenly dispersed throughout the meat. In contrast, with traditional cures, the meat will come out of the cure sooner, but then it will still need a resting period to allow the salt levels to equalize throughout.

*Sources*
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6314

Nathan Myhrvold _et al_., _Modernist Cuisine_


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 28, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> This is not FDA or USDA, it's High School Chemistry 101. Salts and in this case the Sodium Salts, Sodium Chloride (NaCl), table salt and Sodium Nitrite  (NaNO2), in Cure #1, break into Ions when dissolved in water. Ions are chemically charged particles that gain or lose an electron becoming Polar compared to the electrically stable molecules. The Ions are  attracted to ions or compounds with opposite charges and are repelled by like charges. Think Magnets. When you mix Salt and Cure in water, the stable compounds essential dissolve intof various Sodium Ions. The now Brine loaded with tightly packed Like charge ion NEED to separate. Since there is a big chunk of meat with no or few Sodium Ions, into the meat is the only place to go. The Ions move from the High concentration, brine, to the area of Low concentration, meat, until the entire System is in balance aka, Reaches Equilibrium, same amount of Salt and Cure Sodium Ions in the meat and in the brine. Below is a more detailed explanation...
> 
> Water is NOT nor can it be Inert. First Gases can be inert as in they can prevent other chemical reaction or are Non-reactive them selves. But Water is a Polar Compound. It has both a reactive Positive Charge, the Hydrogen end of the molecule. And a reactive Negative Charge, the double atom Oxygen end of the molecule. This is why Water is the Universal Solvent and highly reactive. The exact Opposite of Inert. Adding electrically stable compounds, Table Salt, Cure and thousands of others, to water will cause them to dissolve as the charged water molecules pull them apart. Once the stable molecules are torn into there respective ions, Diffusion can occur as described above. A pretty amazing process that gets a Salty Brine to make BACON!...JJ
> 
> ...


As much as I hate the gooberment I'll trust them to keep the country safe as I don't trust you regulating meat production and recalls. Water is inert, check your sources. As far as the rest of your post I won't read it as I'm sure most is blah blah as the first two I challenged.


----------



## MeatSkull (Sep 28, 2018)

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent


----------



## daveomak (Sep 28, 2018)

Wiki says, "water is a solvent"....  Water is the most common solvent we have...   It dissolves sugar, salt, honey, coffee flavors....


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 28, 2018)

You CLAIM I am wrong on Cure Diffussion YOU PROVE IT! And No Wikipedia BS, as anybody can post or change definitions on Wikipedia no matter how ignorant they are.

Ok, my mistake, as a Solvent water is relatively inert, in  some situations. I used a inaccurate example under the circumstances you are referring to. However, there are many chemical reactions that water Does form a new compound and is not inert. Water H2O in the presence of Sulfur Dioxide, reacts to form H2SO4 a new compound aka, Sulfuric Acid.
Shame you won't read my post and an article that explainS a simple chemical process. I guess I give up. All I have left is the College level Culinary Chemical Reactions,  I taught as an Instructor. That gets even deeper...JJ


----------



## chef jimmyj (Sep 28, 2018)

Folks...Disagreement, when there are so many way to skin a cat, will happen. Discussion and even friendly debate is fine. But when your argument boils down to, " I'M RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG! I don't have to prove anything." Followed by sarcastic comments and childish remarks, We can Guarantee, you won't be around long.
Please respect each other and keep it friendly...Thanks...

RIP...MeatSkull...


----------



## pineywoods (Sep 28, 2018)

chef jimmyj said:


> Folks...Disagreement, when there are so many way to skin a cat, will happen. Discussion and even friendly debate is fine. But when your argument boils down to, " I'M RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG! I don't have to prove anything." Followed by sarcastic comments and childish remarks, We can Guarantee, you won't be around long.
> Please respect each other and keep it friendly...Thanks...



You are so very right debate is fine rudeness will not be tolerated and once warned by a Moderator you had best listen or you won't be a member for much longer


----------



## smokerjim (Sep 29, 2018)

Thanks again, I am only using cure #1, I agree disagreeing  is one thing but attacking is is rude and uncalled for, I enjoyed most of the debates in this thread, I will say I learned quite  a bit from all of you.i will keep you updated on how these come out. Thanks again  jim


----------



## jcam222 (Oct 6, 2018)

Do you suppose that its ok to substitute Splenda for sugar in these cure recipes?


----------



## smokerjim (Oct 6, 2018)

I don't see why not, I'm sure some of the pros  will be around to give you a definite  answer .


----------



## chef jimmyj (Oct 6, 2018)

There should be no issue. I know Pop's uses Stevia without issue...JJ


----------



## smokerjim (Oct 16, 2018)

Getting ready to smoke  tomorrow , pulled out for fry test today after 14 day cure, probably a little long but with work schedule best I could do. Fry test was just a little salty but not to bad, will soak for 1/2 hour or so and put in fridge to dry over night. If I can figure out how to post pictures I will post them, (just a computer dummy) maybe not just a computer dummy!! Thanks again for all the help


----------



## browneyesvictim (Oct 25, 2018)

Well, 

 smokerjim
 …. How did it turn out? Please post pics if you can.


----------



## smokerjim (Oct 25, 2018)

Turned out good, I ended up using yours and digging dogs recipe, I really can't taste any difference , I will work on the pictures, I have them on my phone (flip phone) I think I have to send them to my email and somehow get them on here, not sure how but will work on it. Thanks again


----------



## nanuk (Nov 6, 2018)

I use Imgur.com.

load you pic there, then link to it from here using the "Image" icon above.


----------



## smokerjim (Nov 6, 2018)

I did get them to my email, how do I load them to imgur, thought I was halfway  intelligent  until trying to get pictures on here


----------



## smokerjim (Nov 7, 2018)

Testing


----------



## smokerjim (Nov 7, 2018)

smokerjim said:


> Testing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------

