# Sorry to see the other pasteurization table topic shut down...



## lowslowjoe (Apr 14, 2017)

So, the whole topic of cooking temps , safety, etc... has been something I've recently been really interested in...  For me, most of my keen interest has been related to meats that have actually been cured , before being cooked/smoked.  However, I also do BBQ a lot , cooking meats that aren't cured, so my interest goes beyond just safety of cured meat products.

 Anyway... there was/is the other thread where some charts and such were posted... then some discussion about how some of the data may have come from older documents and such...  So , me being curious , have tried to figure out what was what, or is what... now the other thread's charts and/or graphics are now gone, so , it's hard to make any exact reference to that stuff., since I hadn't saved it myself, etc...

  The gist of what seems to have prompted the removal, was some comments that changes in the 2013 food code, may obsolete information in a older 2009 food code... 

 be that as it may...

  Near as I can tell... the FSIS/USDA still publishes data that goes back to 1999 and/or 2009, which speaks directly to cooking times and temperatures... that as near as I can tell, have not been obsoleted in any way shape or form...  

For poultry(1999)... 
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/c...70048a113a/RTE_Poultry_Tables.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
For whole muscle intact beef (2009)
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/c...erature-Time-Table-Salmonella.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

 As far as I can tell ( and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, hopefully pointing out the exact nature of my error )... little or nothing has changed from 2009 to 2013 with regard to the length of time and temperature it takes to kill the nasty things that might hurt us...

 As I understand it, Pork is now considered to be safe based on the 2009 data for intact beef chart... and I think the only difference between beef and pork, is you can't get by with just searing/cooking the outer edges, like you apparently can with beef...

So... please do help me understand...

For further reference...

2013 food code...

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/UCM374510.pdf
2009 food code...
https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/UCM189448.pdf


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## SmokinAl (Apr 14, 2017)

I PM'd Chef Jimmy J, he's the food safety moderator & hopefully when he gets on he will answer your questions.

Al


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## lowslowjoe (Apr 14, 2017)

I've been running right up to the 'consumer guide to safety' recommendations so far... however, recently  I've been wanting to make some food items , where texture and such are more and more important to me.  It's my understanding that those charts with time and temperature are all based on facts and that if a person follows them, they can safely cook even poultry at temperatures WELL bellow the consumer guides to 'safe minimum temperatures'. 

  I have a Turkey breast thawing now... and have intentions of roasting it in my pellet grill at roughly 250F, maybe 275F, once it hits 145F, watching the temperature and time closely until the thickest part  been at least 145F , for at least 15 minutes.  I expect the temperature to actually still be rising and would likely have hit 150F or close to it after the 15 minutes has past. After that , I plan on cooling it down quickly, get it close to freezing, then slice it, vacuum seal the sliced pieces, freeze the packaged slices, etc... all for my own personal lunch meat.   I believe the plan is sound.


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 15, 2017)

I am working on finding out what happened and will followup with the parties involved.

On cooking the turkey, maintaining an IT of 145 for 10.6 minutes will give a safe product. Your plan goes above and beyond the minimum standard. Extra insurance if you will. 

Changes to the food code with addendums going out or being published happen all the time. A time and temp that is legal today may be banned tomorrow. Just when everybody makes the changes, new research comes out that shows the old system was fine. Now if you really want to go crazy compare the food code temps to that of the USDA Fact Sheets published for home cooks! There is no mention of poultry being safe cooked to less than 165 degrees. This gives such a large margin of safety that even a can't boil water newbie can cook a turkey.

If I have not answered your question or alleviated your concerns, send a pm with more info and I will try to help further ...JJ


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## SmokinAl (Apr 15, 2017)

Thanks JJ!

Al


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## chef jimmyj (Apr 16, 2017)

The charts have been restored...JJ


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## lowslowjoe (Apr 17, 2017)

Thanks...   for the record... what I learned cooking this past weekend... when cooking at 250F, my 6.2 pound turkey breast was climbing so rapidly when it got up to the lower temperatures, it shot right past... I finally pulled it and it kept going higher.. it stopped climbing at about 153F.  I haven't actually tasted the Turkey yet, because I put it in the fridge too cool down once the temperature settled back down toward 145F.  I'll be slicing it up tonight for lunch meat...  Next time, I'll likely drop the grill temperature down a bit as I get closer to my target temperature, try to reduce the climb of the internal temperature, so that I can get closer to my target.


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