# Cut, Toss, or Keep As-Is?



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

So I pulled this out of the bag yesterday and patted it dry. It went uncovered in the fridge to form the pellicle. It looks fine except for the white stuff on the one jagged edge.  

Was going to smoke it overnight, but?
	

		
			
		

		
	




















Thoughts and suggestions?


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

Looks like mold to me. What was your curing recipe, length of cure, fridge temp etc?


----------



## pc farmer (Jun 21, 2022)

I agree with Jake.  More info needed.  Looks like mold.


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

1 1/3 teaspoons Prague Powder #1
5 Tablespoons coarse Kosher salt
5 Tablespoons brown sugar
3Tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon maple syrup
3 Tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon cracked black pepper
1 ½ teaspoons crushed red pepper flakes
Was a 5lb piece, wrapped n Ziploc for 10 days, flipped and massage daily. Fridge at 37.


----------



## chopsaw (Jun 21, 2022)

Its Mold . Looks fuzzy and starting to turn green . I would toss it myself . Not saying you should , but fuzzy mold is bad in my opinion .


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

chopsaw said:


> Its Mold . Looks fuzzy and starting to turn green . I would toss it myself . Not saying you should , but fuzzy mold is bad in my opinion .


At the moment, thinking same, but can't figure out how, and just that spot


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> 1 1/3 teaspoons Prague Powder #1
> 5 Tablespoons coarse Kosher salt
> 5 Tablespoons brown sugar
> 3Tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon maple syrup
> ...


Is rec


GrumpyGriller said:


> 1 1/3 teaspoons Prague Powder #1
> 5 Tablespoons coarse Kosher salt
> 5 Tablespoons brown sugar
> 3Tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon maple syrup
> ...


I can't say what caused the mold. Maybe sugar? But it certainly is mold. You should look into measuring your cure and the rest of spices in grams and get away from the "tablespoon plus a teaspoon" measurements. I wouldn't eat it but also not recommending you should toss it until you get more feedback


----------



## chopsaw (Jun 21, 2022)

I could be anything . Something touched that spot , or that could be the starting point . Is it fuzzy ?


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

chopsaw said:


> I could be anything . Something touched that spot , or that could be the starting point . Is it fuzzy ?


Honestly fuzzy or not I wouldn't eat meat with mold unless I purposely put the mold there myself like in some charcuterie. But I'm curious as well. I'm sure he knows what mold looks like. 

 GrumpyGriller
 do you think it's mold?


----------



## pc farmer (Jun 21, 2022)

I am going to get some hate but I would cut the moldy part off and smoke it.


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

My first thought was mold as well....just po'd for losing 10 days of effort.  Guess it’s time to defrost the other piece and start again.  Oh well.


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

pc farmer said:


> I am going to get some hate but I would cut the moldy part off and smoke it.


Just curious how you came to that conclusion


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

pc farmer said:


> I am going to get some hate but I would cut the moldy part off and smoke it.


I really considered that,  but if there are other spots not quite so obvious, the emergency room copay would be 3x the cost of the wasted belly.


----------



## pc farmer (Jun 21, 2022)

TNJAKE said:


> Just curious how you came to that conclusion



Cause people are telling him to pitch it.  The cure looks close to me without doing the calculations


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> I really considered that,  but if there are other spots not quite so obvious, the emergency room copay would be 3x the cost of the wasted belly.


Cure penetrates from the surface to the center is why I'm concerned. You have surface mold


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

pc farmer said:


> Cause people are telling him to pitch it.  The cure looks close to me without doing the calculations


Nobody here said pitch it. I said I wouldn't eat it but wait for more advice. 

 chopsaw
 also didn't say pitch it. Just that he wouldn't eat it. But you say cut the mold off and eat it with no reasoning other than "cause people are telling him to pitch it".


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

TNJAKE said:


> Cure penetrates from the surface to the center is why I'm concerned. You have surface mold


That's why it doesn't make sense. Flipping and massaging the bag 9 days in a row wouldn't lead to missed spots I'd think.  At the moment, strongly leaning towards dumping it.


----------



## pc farmer (Jun 21, 2022)

TNJAKE said:


> Nobody here said pitch it. I said I wouldn't eat it but wait for more advice.
> 
> chopsaw
> also didn't say pitch it. Just that he wouldn't eat it. But you say cut the mold off and eat it with no reasoning other than "cause people are telling him to pitch it". Maybe you shouldn't give food safety advice?



If you read my post I said the cure looks close without doing the calculations
 And I said I would catch hell for posting what I did, I wasn't wrong.  Have a good evening


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> That's why it doesn't make sense. Flipping and massaging the bag 9 days in a row wouldn't lead to missed spots I'd think.  At the moment, strongly leaning towards dumping it.


That's throws me off as well. Maybe something was wrong before the cure. Just because you dumped some cure on it doesn't mean you can't have an unrelated issue


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

pc farmer said:


> If you read my post I said the cure looks close without doing the calculations
> And I said I would catch hell for posting what I did, I wasn't wrong.  Have a good evening


Was just pointing out nobody said "pitch it". There are people here smarter than me or you who can make that call


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

Thanks for the feedback all.  I'd be more saddened if it were a Wagyu prime rib . Just gives me a chance to hit up Restaurant Depot or BJ's again!


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

TNJAKE said:


> That's throws me off as well. Maybe something was wrong before the cure. Just because you dumped some cure on it doesn't mean you can't have an unrelated issue


Yep...and that's why I'm probably pitching it - not worth the unknown cause/risk me thinks.


----------



## DougE (Jun 21, 2022)

I wouldn't toss it til a few others weigh in like inda, smokinedge etc. The ones who really have done a ton of study on curing.


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

DougE said:


> I wouldn't toss it til a few others weigh in like inda, smokinedge etc. The ones who really have done a ton of study on curing.


Agree was waiting on them for the throw out advice. 

 indaswamp


 SmokinEdge


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 21, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> 1 1/3 teaspoons Prague Powder #1
> 5 Tablespoons coarse Kosher salt
> 5 Tablespoons brown sugar
> 3Tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon maple syrup
> ...


It is mold. Can't really say if it is a bad mold or not. I would rinse with a 50/50 vinegar and water solution to remove the mold. The reason why you have the mold is because you used too much sugars in your recipe. Never use sugar at more that 60% of the salt amount or you will get mold growth.

And with the coarse kosher salt, you might not have enough measuring by volume. Always weigh the salt when doing a cure. I recommend 1.5% salt, 1% sugar, 0.25% cure #1 as a basic bacon cure.

* If you are unsure, you can always slice 1/2" off where the mold grew after you wipe with the vinegar solution.


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> It is mold. Can't really say if it is a bad mold or not. I would rinse with a 50/50 vinegar and water solution to remove the mold. The reason why you have the mold is because you used too much sugars in your recipe. Never use sugar at more that 60% of the salt amount or you will get mold growth.
> 
> And with the coarse kosher salt, you might not have enough measuring by volume. Always weigh the salt when doing a cure. I recommend 1.5% salt, 1% sugar, 0.25% cure #1 as a basic bacon cure.
> 
> * If you are unsure, you can always slice 1/2" off where the mold grew after you wipe with the vinegar solution.


Once I do that, should I reseason it a bit and let it sit in fridge overnight to redevelop a pellicle before it's smoked? And silly question... white vinegar?


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 21, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> It is mold. Can't really say if it is a bad mold or not. I would rinse with a 50/50 vinegar and water solution to remove the mold. The reason why you have the mold is because you used too much sugars in your recipe. Never use sugar at more that 60% of the salt amount or you will get mold growth.
> 
> And with the coarse kosher salt, you might not have enough measuring by volume. Always weigh the salt when doing a cure. I recommend 1.5% salt, 1% sugar, 0.25% cure #1 as a basic bacon cure.
> 
> * If you are unsure, you can always slice 1/2" off where the mold grew after you wipe with the vinegar solution.


Thanks Keith. I thought the sugar might be an issue but couldn't be 100%


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 21, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> Once I do that, should I reseason it a bit and let it sit in fridge overnight to redevelop a pellicle before it's smoked? And silly question... white vinegar?


I'd add a light dusting of more salt for sure...then I would forgo a sit in the fridge and instead hang it with a fan on it until it has a pellicle (30-60 minutes) and smoke immediately. Are you cold smoking or hot smoking?


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 21, 2022)

Of note- with the high sugar content, your bacon might ferment when you smoke, but that is a chance I would take. You won't know how it will turn out until it's done.....


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> I'd add a light dusting or more salt for sure...then I would forgo a sit in the fridge and instead hang it with a fan on it until it has a pellicle (30-60 minutes) and smoke immediately. Are you cold smoking or hot smoking?


Hot...at 165. So white vinegar/water, dry for the hour abd smoke - thanks again!

I'll probably cut that end off just in case, it'll make slicing easier anyway


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 21, 2022)

Smell the bacon....does it have a fermentation/sour smell???


Yes, this is one instance where I would definitely recommend hot smoking. That might stop the fermentation before it really gets started and prevent it going sour on you.

Live and learn from your mistakes....that's why we are here......to help.


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 21, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> Hot...at 165. So white vinegar/water, dry for the hour abd smoke - thanks again!
> 
> I'll probably cut that end off just in case, it'll make slicing easier anyway


Do not forget to add more salt!


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

No sour smell, so letting it sit in the solution for a few min and will rinse, dry, are SQL and will throw on smoker with he edge slicd off JIC


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 21, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> will rinse, dry, are SQL


what is SQL?


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 21, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> what is SQL?


Fat fingers


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 21, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> It is mold. Can't really say if it is a bad mold or not. I would rinse with a 50/50 vinegar and water solution to remove the mold. The reason why you have the mold is because you used too much sugars in your recipe. Never use sugar at more that 60% of the salt amount or you will get mold growth.
> 
> And with the coarse kosher salt, you might not have enough measuring by volume. Always weigh the salt when doing a cure. I recommend 1.5% salt, 1% sugar, 0.25% cure #1 as a basic bacon cure.
> 
> * If you are unsure, you can always slice 1/2" off where the mold grew after you wipe with the vinegar solution.


I agree it looks like mold, white mold, But,



GrumpyGriller said:


> 1 1/3 teaspoons Prague Powder #1
> 5 Tablespoons coarse Kosher salt
> 5 Tablespoons brown sugar
> 3Tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon maple syrup
> ...


1 Tbs of kosher salt is about 18 grams. So here we are applying 18 grams salt per pound of meat plus the cure #1. The salt alone is about 4% salt, then add the salt from the cure #1. This lends me to think that what looks like mold in the picture is actually salt that didn’t dissolve. Just a guess, but no mold will grow in an environment of ~4.25% salt.


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 21, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> 18 grams salt per pound


I missed that....I was thinking in terms of kilograms....salt would be higher on a per pound basis.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> I missed that....I was thinking in terms of kilograms....salt would be higher on a per pound basis.


Just over double.


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 22, 2022)

Thanks again all....it was rinsed with the v/w mix, dried and the end squared off, just in case.  On smoker last night and looks good so far. As of 6 AM, it's at 135, on its way to 155.  I'll give it a test fry tonight and report back. 

This thread and the help,is one of the reasons I'm glad I had already signed up as a Paid member!


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 22, 2022)

Good morning all - the bacon is at 141 now, so will take it off probably at 145ish, rather than 155.  I always fry up the bacon anyway :)  So it'll end up being smoked at 165-170 for about 8 hours!


----------



## chopsaw (Jun 22, 2022)

Glad you got it figured out . I know good mold from bad , but going by a picture is always a guess . 
I never suggest people throw things out . Fact is , no one can tell 100 % for sure from a picture . 
Be waiting for the sliced shots .


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 22, 2022)

In fridge to cool now…


----------



## indaswamp (Jun 22, 2022)

Looking forward to the sample fry pics....


----------



## Bearcarver (Jun 22, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> My first thought was mold as well....just po'd for losing 10 days of effort.  Guess it’s time to defrost the other piece and start again.  Oh well.



If you don't find out what it is & how it got there, what's gonna keep the same thing from happening to the other one in the freezer?

Bear


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 22, 2022)

Bearcarver said:


> If you don't find out what it is & how it got there, what's gonna keep the same thing from happening to the other one in the freezer?
> 
> Bear


The one in the freezer is a sealed and packaged belly from BJ's, so that's why I am not worried about that piece.  That being said, I'll take a close look at it before I start the process for it.

On the one already done smoking, I'm not 100% sure either way if it was mold or salt, but following some of the feedback I received, it was worth a shot to go through the rinse, slice-off, and smoke.  It had no moldy odor, and I did closely look at the rest of the belly and didn't see anything. I am going to test fry tonight and see if it tastes "off", so fingers crossed.

Thanks Bear - and to all the others who helped! Pics and (hopefully) final report later this evening.


----------



## Brokenhandle (Jun 22, 2022)

Interesting read...and interested to see the slice and fry test! We can all still learn here...I can for sure!

Ryan


----------



## DougE (Jun 22, 2022)

That white kind of looks similar to what's on the ground outside my barn where I dumped the salt water my sausage casings were stored in. I'm not positive it's salt, but it very well could be.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

DougE said:


> That white kind of looks similar to what's on the ground outside my barn where I dumped the salt water my sausage casings were stored in. I'm not positive it's salt, but it very well could be.


Like chopsaw pointed out, it’s difficult to know 100% from a picture, but I just don’t believe that mold grew on fresh meat at refrigeration temperature with 4.25% salt applied (Including cure #1) In 10 days. I don’t think you could get mold to grow on a piece of fresh meat at refrigeration temperature in 10 days, much less heavy cured.


----------



## DougE (Jun 22, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> Like chopsaw pointed out, it’s difficult to know 100% from a picture, but I just don’t believe that mold grew on fresh meat at refrigeration temperature with 4.25% salt applied (Including cure #1) In 10 days. I don’t think you could get mold to grow on a piece of fresh meat at refrigeration temperature in 10 days, much less heavy cured.


I agree. if the parameters are correct, mold ain't going to grow.


----------



## Brokenhandle (Jun 22, 2022)

Hope the bacon doesn't turn out to be a salt lick!

Ryan


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

Brokenhandle said:


> Hope the bacon doesn't turn out to be a salt lick!
> 
> Ryan


It’s definitely going to be salty, but he put a ton of sugar in it to. So it might be like salted caramel belly bacon. We shall see. My bet is salty like chewing a bouillon cube.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

DougE said:


> I agree. if the parameters are correct, mold ain't going to grow.


Not in 10 days, and think about it, that mold didn’t show up magically on day 10, it would have been present on day 7 or 8. Anybody buy that?


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 22, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> Not in 10 days, and think about it, that mold didn’t show up magically on day 10, it would have been present on day 7 or 8. Anybody buy that?


I'll play. Agree with everyone. Can't be definitive from the pic. I wish he would have scraped some off to let us know for sure but we are too late for that. I agree with you that it's a high salt/cure environment. Seems just as odd to me that he had a mass build of salt that he didn't notice and/or dissolve during the flipping as opposed to mold?


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

TNJAKE said:


> I'll play. Agree with everyone. Can't be definitive from the pic. I wish he would have scraped some off to let us know for sure but we are too late for that. I agree with you that it's a high salt/cure environment. Seems just as odd to me that he had a mass build of salt that he didn't notice and/or dissolve during the flipping as opposed to mold?


This is a very odd case given the environmental from the OP. Refrigeration temp of 37F, that’s a wee high but still cold. My bet is still no mold in this timeframe with that level of salt plus nitrite.


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 22, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> This is a very odd case given the environmental from the OP. Refrigeration temp of 37F, that’s a wee high but still cold. My bet is still no mold in this timeframe with that level of salt plus nitrite.


I can't disagree. Just seems weird most of the salt (and according to the pic looks like a high concentration) would end up in one spot on the belly after 10 days of flipping and mixing with moisture. I'm just trying to understand it lol


----------



## DougE (Jun 22, 2022)

TNJAKE said:


> Just seems weird most of the salt (and according to the pic looks like a high concentration) would end up in one spot on the belly after 10 days of flipping and mixing with moisture. I'm just trying to understand it lol


We're all trying to understand what happened, but with all the info given, mold just seems unlikely.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> 1 1/3 teaspoons Prague Powder #1
> 5 Tablespoons coarse Kosher salt
> 5 Tablespoons brown sugar
> 3Tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon maple syrup
> ...


I’ll be honest 

 TNJAKE
 ,
Ive never applied that much sugar to meat in relationship to salt. This thing is meat candy. So maybe it is the sugars that brought on the “mold” if it is this then I would suspect fungus, or yeast, but the pic doesn’t look right for that. I do believe it’s safe, but I’d sure like to see it with my own eyes.


----------



## TNJAKE (Jun 22, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> I’ll be honest
> 
> TNJAKE
> ,
> Ive never applied that much sugar to meat in relationship to salt. This thing is meat candy. So maybe it is the sugars that brought on the “mold” if it is this then I would suspect fungus, or yeast, but the pic doesn’t look right for that. I do believe it’s safe, but I’d sure like to see it with my own eyes.


Gotcha and understand. Sugar has been in my mind. I don't think it's unsafe either. Especially after the cleanup he did........ enquiring minds you know


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 22, 2022)

The white stuff didn't seem fuzzy, and glad to give everyone a challenge . 

The fry test - quite yummy


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

TNJAKE said:


> Gotcha and understand. Sugar has been in my mind. I don't think it's unsafe either. Especially after the cleanup he did........ enquiring minds you know


The sugar kinda would be but this is 4.25% salt with nitrite. And a total of 10 days. We are not digging into or even coming close to charcuterie.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 22, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> The white stuff didn't seem fuzzy, and glad to give everyone a challenge .
> 
> The fry test - quite yummy
> 
> ...


Glad you are happy. In the future I would throttle back the salt and sugar and play with the rest of us in a known perimeter. Your cure recipe is out there, and this can create a lot of unknowns.


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 23, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> Glad you are happy. In the future I would throttle back the salt and sugar and play with the rest of us in a known perimeter. Your cure recipe is out there, and this can create a lot of unknowns.


It's a tad salty, but not too bad - sort of tempered with the black pepper and red pepper flakes.  I agree that next time, I have to go back to weighing everything and perhaps cutting back the sugar content a bit.  The saltiness in this case may have come from adding (not measuring) some salt after the vinegar/water rinse.  Live and learn :)  Thanks again all!!!!!


----------



## BobP325 (Jun 24, 2022)

pc farmer said:


> I am going to get some hate but I would cut the moldy part off and smoke it.


The mold's on the surface not internal. I'd rinse it with water, then wipe it down with cider vinegar to get rid of and kill the mold. This is a standard practice for cheddars that would mold too much, cheddar needs this process to 'ripen'. Personally I'd keep it.


----------



## noboundaries (Jun 24, 2022)

I came to this "pitch or keep party" late. 

One of the reasons I use a semi-wet (slurry) cure is to avoid problems like this. A little water, 1 cup/5 lbs, calculated into the ingredient and meat weight for the Prague #1 requirement, ensures cure coverage of the meat surface in a vacuum bag. I've tested dry, wet, and slurry cures and hands down prefer the slurry. Same daily massage and flip process as dry. Works for any type of jerky, slab bacon, buckboard bacon, and corning beef.


----------



## noboundaries (Jun 24, 2022)

Oh, and one more thing. If using Ziplocks with a slurry cure, DOUBLE BAG. More than once I've had small leaks and the double bag caught the mess.


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jun 24, 2022)

noboundaries said:


> Oh, and one more thing. If using Ziplocks with a slurry cure, DOUBLE BAG. More than once I've had small leaks and the double bag caught the mess.


Funny you should mention that.  I did double bag in opposite directions to make it even more leak-resistant :)


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jun 24, 2022)

GrumpyGriller

How much liquid was in your bag? I’m sure there was plenty of liquid?


----------



## GrumpyGriller (Jul 10, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> GrumpyGriller
> 
> How much liquid was in your bag? I’m sure there was plenty of liquid?


I’d say a 1/2 cup or so was what was dumped out, plus a little on the belly of course.


----------



## SmokinEdge (Jul 11, 2022)

GrumpyGriller said:


> I’d say a 1/2 cup or so was what was dumped out, plus a little on the belly of course.


Now that the dust has settled on the topic, what are your final thoughts on flavor and product quality? What’s the plans for the other piece of belly that was still in the freezer?


----------

