# Alton Brown



## wildflower

[h2]Scrap Iron Chef[/h2]
Episode EA1E12

has three cures listed

honey mustard cure

Molasses black pepper cure

red pepper brine


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## wildflower

sorry, I forgot the link

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/scrap-iron-chefs-bacon-recipe/index.html


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## shooterrick

I read the recipe and some of the comments about cold smoking this.  I should point out for safety reasons that no commercial cure is in the recipe and therefore without nitrates/nitrites in known quantities, cold smoke at your own risk.  The recipe does sound good but I would add a commercial cure and follow recommended times of the cure.  This reply was not meant to be negative just my 2 cents on the safety of the process outlined.


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## pops6927

I agree totally!  Cold smoking does impart a nitrite effect under 80° from substances in the wood, but your time would be greatly lengthened to get the effect from it, like weeks.


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## Bearcarver

Add another one to the list:

Brining without real cure for 3 days.

Then cold smoking for 4 to 6 hours.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I used to have more respect for Alton Brown.

Bear


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## ak1

I'd have no problems with it.

For one, the salt will draw out enough moisture that it will inhibit bacteria growth. Also the honey is so sweet that it will also inhibit bacteria growth(Honey is one of the few foods that will not spoil) Also, since the belly is not pierced there will be no bacterial penetration into the meat and it will also be in the fridge where cold temps will also help in inhibiting any bacterial growth.


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## meateater

I'm new to this stuff, I'll stick with cure.


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## ak1

I'd do the same. But I would suggest that one keeps an open mind to other methods of curing, some which have been proven over hundreds of years, long before curing salt & refrigeration was available.

Look at it this way. You're uncomfortable about using a recipe that has been televised on national TV(in a society that is one of the most litigenous on this planet). But you're comfortable adding a product that is a known human toxin to your food. And then you're going to smoke it over wood or charcoal which emits carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide, and particulates(the smoke) which coat the food that you (and me) are eating.


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## scarbelly

I agree with Shooter and Pops - This may not be a safe practice - the info is too vague to confirm the process in my opinion - Hope your methods work out safely

Good Luck

Gary


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## nwdave

AK1 said:


> I'd do the same. But I would suggest that one keeps an open mind to other methods of curing, some which have been proven over hundreds of years, long before curing salt & refrigeration was available.
> 
> Look at it this way. You're uncomfortable about using a recipe that has been televised on national TV(in a society that is one of the most litigenous on this planet). But you're comfortable adding a product that is a known human toxin to your food. And then you're going to smoke it over wood or charcoal which emits carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide, and particulates(the smoke) which coat the food that you (and me) are eating.


Being a victim of the TV of the 60's, I have a very jaundice eye when it's on the telly.  Just because it's on national TV does not validate it.  And known human toxin's in the right quantity and under rigid controls actually become life saving medicine.  So, your point is what?  If you want to sponser the "old techniques" that may have existed before  curing salt and refrigeration was available, you go first.  I'll stick to what's been tested to death and found to be adequate when used as directed.  Safety is number one in my life, whether it's on the job or in the kitchen.  I can't afford to "EXPERIMENT" or keep an open mind when my family or guests are enjoying my efforts.  TV stars and supposed gurus come and go with the rapid change of what's relevant or trendy nowadays, my family does not.  And that, my fellow smoker, is what's important.


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## Bearcarver

AK1 said:


> I'd do the same. But I would suggest that one keeps an open mind to other methods of curing, some which have been proven over hundreds of years, long before curing salt & refrigeration was available.
> 
> Look at it this way. You're uncomfortable about using a recipe that has been televised on national TV(in a society that is one of the most litigenous on this planet). But you're comfortable adding a product that is a known human toxin to your food. And then you're going to smoke it over wood or charcoal which emits carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide, and particulates(the smoke) which coat the food that you (and me) are eating.


How can you keep an "Open mind to a method of curing" when this is not a "Method of Curing"?

Alton Brown is "Salting", not "Curing". It's that simple.

From Morton Salt (This same statement is used in nearly all sites having to do with "CURING"):
[h1]Curing[/h1]
The highest quality cured product can not be produced by using salt alone, because salt hardens the meat fibres and tends to make meat salty and dry. That is why in most cases sugar and nitrite are added into curing solution. In case of products smoked at low temperatures it also provides margin of safety preventing possibility of botulism (food poisoning). Curing*  *is adding salt*  and nitrates/nitrites to meat. *If you use only salt it is called *salting.*  If you use salt and water it is called *brining.*  The moment you add*  nitrates and salt *to meat it is considered *curing.*


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## ak1

Bearcarver said:


> How can you keep an "Open mind to a method of curing" when this is not a "Method of Curing"?
> 
> Alton Brown is "Salting", not "Curing". It's that simple.
> 
> From Morton Salt (This same statement is used in nearly all sites having to do with "CURING"):
> [h1]Curing[/h1]
> The highest quality cured product can not be produced by using salt alone, because salt hardens the meat fibres and tends to make meat salty and dry. That is why in most cases sugar and nitrite are added into curing solution. In case of products smoked at low temperatures it also provides margin of safety preventing possibility of botulism (food poisoning). Curing*  *is adding salt*  and nitrates/nitrites to meat. *If you use only salt it is called *salting.*  If you use salt and water it is called *brining.*  The moment you add*  nitrates and salt *to meat it is considered *curing.*


But, if you smoke the salted meat, that does add nitrates doesn't it? Or is important for the salt & nitrates/nitrites to be added together?


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## shooterrick

Interesting discussion going on.  Yes smoking does impart nitrates in very small amounts that are insignificant *unless* you are smoking for a very long period of time like several days and weeks like our ancestors did.   The smoke houses of old would run for weeks and did actually cure meat.  Of course my grandfather would then have to scrape the outer mold and rott off the meat to get to the inside layers fit to eat.  LOL  I would also be curious as to the food born illnesses that must have been present but not recorded as such in those good ole days.  Lets for the sake of safety use known products with known concentrations for curing coupled with proven technique.  If you are new to curing do not attempt to go outside the box and possibly make you and your family ill.  *While the old ways can be learned from they were born out of nessesity.     I for one do not want to go back to leach therapy as a general cure all and my horse drawn buggy would have to have airconditioning.     *


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## meateater

Im sure that all the farmer john, tyson, and all other processed meat that hasn't killed me yet will offset what I've been curing myself.


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## princess

You made me giggle out loud. Thank you for saying what I was thinking. My horse drawn buggy would also have to have a/c. Old ways are not better, they're just old. :)
 


ShooterRick said:


> Interesting discussion going on.  Yes smoking does impart nitrates in very small amounts that are insignificant *unless* you are smoking for a very long period of time like several days and weeks like our ancestors did.   The smoke houses of old would run for weeks and did actually cure meat.  Of course my grandfather would then have to scrape the outer mold and rott off the meat to get to the inside layers fit to eat.  LOL  I would also be curious as to the food born illnesses that must have been present but not recorded as such in those good ole days.  Lets for the sake of safety use known products with known concentrations for curing coupled with proven technique.  If you are new to curing do not attempt to go outside the box and possibly make you and your family ill.  *While the old ways can be learned from they were born out of nessesity.     I for one do not want to go back to leach therapy as a general cure all and my horse drawn buggy would have to have airconditioning.     *


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## Bearcarver

ShooterRick said:


> Interesting discussion going on.  Yes smoking does impart nitrates in very small amounts that are insignificant *unless* you are smoking for a very long period of time like several days and weeks like our ancestors did.   The smoke houses of old would run for weeks and did actually cure meat.  Of course my grandfather would then have to scrape the outer mold and rott off the meat to get to the inside layers fit to eat.  LOL  I would also be curious as to the food born illnesses that must have been present but not recorded as such in those good ole days.  Lets for the sake of safety use known products with known concentrations for curing coupled with proven technique.  If you are new to curing do not attempt to go outside the box and possibly make you and your family ill.  *While the old ways can be learned from they were born out of nessesity.     I for one do not want to go back to leach therapy as a general cure all and my horse drawn buggy would have to have airconditioning.     *


Amen


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## ak1

NWDave said:


> Being a victim of the TV of the 60's, I have a very jaundice eye when it's on the telly.  Just because it's on national TV does not validate it.  And known human toxin's in the right quantity and under rigid controls actually become life saving medicine.  So, your point is what?  If you want to sponser the "old techniques" that may have existed before  curing salt and refrigeration was available, you go first.  I'll stick to what's been tested to death and found to be adequate when used as directed.  Safety is number one in my life, whether it's on the job or in the kitchen.  I can't afford to "EXPERIMENT" or keep an open mind when my family or guests are enjoying my efforts.  TV stars and supposed gurus come and go with the rapid change of what's relevant or trendy nowadays, my family does not.  And that, my fellow smoker, is what's important.


I have a strong hunch I didn't get my point across very well.

I didn't mean to imply that just because it's on TV it's valid. What I tried to get across is that using salt is a tried and true method of curing meat and has been for ages, and given the proper precautions it is an acceptable method and not just because Alton Brown said so. In bringing up the fact that it was on TV(on the Food Network), I was saying that given the type of network it is, they would have insured that it was a safe method of making bacon, prior to making and airing that episode, after all, the last thing they want is a bunch of lawsuits because people got sick.(I would hope!)

 Having said that, I need to add that I'm new at this curing meat thing, and I'm trying to find out as much as possible. Thing is, in doing some searching on the internet I'm seeing all sorts of different ways to cure(almost information overload), so when I see answers like "You have to use curing salt" or "You don't have to use curing salt, because that's used in commercial establishments because so many people handle the food..." I get confused.  Especially, since my parents never used curing salts making hams, sausages, bacon etc when I was growing up. They used to get a whole pig in Nov, Dec, and make all this stuff and I grew up eating it without getting ill.

This is in no way meant to dismiss the need for food safety, and regulations, but I tend to believe that they don't need to be applied in all situations. Let me explain; Typically we tend to go to a supermarket, box store, etc to buy our meat. We have no idea where this meat came from, or how it was raised, slaughtered, packed, shipped, stored, etc...Food regs definitely come into play. However, what if that same piece of meat came from a place where you knew exactly that it was raised in a healthy manner, without antibiotics, hormones etc. It was also slaughtered properly, and stored properly, then you picked it up, got it home and have taken the best possible care prior & during cooking. Perhaps in this case following the food safety regs to the letter may not be necessary for the food to be safe. 

@Bearcarver;

 When I said "curing" I meant it in the dictionary definition of the word.

This from Webster;   *:*  to prepare or alter especially by chemical or physical processing for keeping or use <fish _cured_  with salt>

From Oxford; preserve (meat, fish, tobacco, or an animal skin) by salting, drying, or smoking:

On a few other sites, I have learned that the term "curing" literally means preserving food, it is generally accepted that in regular usage it refers to using "nitrates/nitrites"

 I hope this post helps explain where I am coming from.

Thanks

Darko


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## roller

I think that I am going with Brown on this one. I think that he is the MOST knowledgeable food expert on the tube and would not present anything harmfull to the public.JMO


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## Bearcarver

AK1 said:


> I have a strong hunch I didn't get my point across very well.
> 
> I didn't mean to imply that just because it's on TV it's valid. What I tried to get across is that using salt is a tried and true method of curing meat and has been for ages, and given the proper precautions it is an acceptable method and not just because Alton Brown said so. In bringing up the fact that it was on TV(on the Food Network), I was saying that given the type of network it is, they would have insured that it was a safe method of making bacon, prior to making and airing that episode, after all, the last thing they want is a bunch of lawsuits because people got sick.(I would hope!)
> 
> Having said that, I need to add that I'm new at this curing meat thing, and I'm trying to find out as much as possible. Thing is, in doing some searching on the internet I'm seeing all sorts of different ways to cure(almost information overload), so when I see answers like "You have to use curing salt" or "You don't have to use curing salt, because that's used in commercial establishments because so many people handle the food..." I get confused.  Especially, since my parents never used curing salts making hams, sausages, bacon etc when I was growing up. They used to get a whole pig in Nov, Dec, and make all this stuff and I grew up eating it without getting ill.
> 
> This is in no way meant to dismiss the need for food safety, and regulations, but I tend to believe that they don't need to be applied in all situations. Let me explain; Typically we tend to go to a supermarket, box store, etc to buy our meat. We have no idea where this meat came from, or how it was raised, slaughtered, packed, shipped, stored, etc...Food regs definitely come into play. However, what if that same piece of meat came from a place where you knew exactly that it was raised in a healthy manner, without antibiotics, hormones etc. It was also slaughtered properly, and stored properly, then you picked it up, got it home and have taken the best possible care prior & during cooking. Perhaps in this case following the food safety regs to the letter may not be necessary for the food to be safe.
> 
> @Bearcarver;
> 
> When I said "curing" I meant it in the dictionary definition of the word.
> 
> This from Webster;   *:*  to prepare or alter especially by chemical or physical processing for keeping or use <fish _cured_  with salt>
> 
> From Oxford; preserve (meat, fish, tobacco, or an animal skin) by salting, drying, or smoking:
> 
> On a few other sites, I have learned that the term "curing" literally means preserving food, it is generally accepted that in regular usage it refers to using "nitrates/nitrites"
> 
> I hope this post helps explain where I am coming from.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Darko


I know where you're coming from. You like to argue & debate. Many of us do, but in something this important & this dangerous, picking out a few statements on the web from a few of the thousands out there, because they may support your opinions is not a good thing to do.

You don't safely "cure" meat in any reasonable length of time (like most people on this forum would be willing to do) with salt alone. Using salt alone is called "Salting", not curing. With salt alone on a belly, it would be salted Pork---wouldn't be pink----wouldn't taste like bacon.

Alton Brown is a TV celebrity, not an expert compared to those at State universities across the country, and those like Rytek & Kubek (sp), and Morton Salt, etc, etc.

The problem with you pushing this so hard is you are already beginning to suck others in. This is what I try to keep from happening. I really don't want to go back & forth with you again, but if people start listening to you on this topic, it could be bad. If you don't know anything about "curing", as you state above, ask questions (that's the way we learn), don't make statements that are wrong. If you look hard enough on the web, you could find that 2 + 2 = 5. That doesn't make it right.

You don't learn to cure meat in a Dictionary:

You say you have information overload from searching how to cure, yet the only references you tell us about are Webster's Dictionary & Oxford Dictionary.

Which "actual" smoking sites told you you can cure meat with salt alone ?

Morton Salt:

Can I use table salt or canning salt in place of curing salt?  

No, table salt or canning salt cannot be used in place of curing salt. If used, you will get salted meat but the color and flavor of the meat will not be properly developed. 

Morton Salt Facts:

http://www.mortonsalt.com/faqs/meat_curing_faq.html

Also ---- from Wikipedia-----*Alton Crawford Brown*  (born July 30, 1962) is an American  cinematographer, author, actor, and television personality.


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## shooterrick

Over the years in this forum this situation has returned time and again. 

Curing if mismanaged can be deadly!  Curing salts such as Mortons TenderQuick and Pinks curing salts such as Insta Cure are proven and safe if used properly.  *They are also inexpensive and since it is excepted that nitrites/nitrates need be present to cure use products with known concentrations of these*.  Other methods not using actual cures can be dangerous.  In the hands of a novice commercial cures can be used safely by following instructions to the letter.  Out of the box methods should not be used especially by the novice.  This isn't a slam or even my opinion.  It is a scientific fact based on proven chemistry. 

*I encourage all interested in curing your own product to do so first with safety in mind.*   You and your families health is the first priority and curing is not the place to experiment.  Have fun with the endless methods of seasoning but not the cures.  Take care and this is my last statement on this subject since it is among most avid smokers a already settled subject.


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## duck killer 1

I gotta tell ya, every time i read a thread like this it scares me out of trying to cure anything myself!


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## venture

Salt has been used to cure meat for centuries.  I have read that the salt in certain parts of the world contains naturally occurring nitrates.  However, back then the average life expectancy was probably about 35.  For myself and my family, I will err on the side of safety. Besides the nitrate/nitrite gives that purdy red color.  LOL


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## meateater

duck killer 1 said:


> I gotta tell ya, every time i read a thread like this it scares me out of trying to cure anything myself!


Don't be scared, the cures are laid out in plain english about how much to use from the companies. A good scale and your good to go.


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## princess

Saltpeter is likely what you are thinkinof. Many old-old (in fact, almost all of the ones from my extensive family archives) curing recipies use saltpeter to cure meat. Saltpeter is a natural source of *potassium* nitrate. It can be used to cure meats as well as make fireworks. That "natural" version of saltpter can be ABSOLUTELY DEADLY and so smart modern folk stay the heck away from it.

I prefer to *read* Alton, rather than watch the show (all the "wacky camera angles" give me a headache), but really.. he isn't a scientist. And even if he was, even the best scientists make mistakes.  You cannot afford to play around with botulism.
 


Venture said:


> Salt has been used to cure meat for centuries.  I have read that the salt in certain parts of the world contains naturally occurring nitrates.  However, back then the average life expectancy was probably about 35.  For myself and my family, I will err on the side of safety. Besides the nitrate/nitrite gives that purdy red color.  LOL


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## venture

Alton Brown is not a food scientist, he is a performer.  A good part of his show will often come from Harold McGee's book, "On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen". From what I have read, McGee's book is considered one of the three or four "bibles" in some culinary schools.  I have thumbed through it and it is a very interesting read.  Not a book you want to read from cover to cover.  More like an encyclopedia of food science you would keep on your shelf as a reference volume.  I hope to own a copy soon.

From Wikipedia I find, "The name _Peru saltpetre_ or _Chile saltpetre_ (American _Peru saltpeter_ or _Chile saltpeter_) refers not to potassium nitrate but to a similar chemical sodium nitrate.

And so we go in the never-ending joys of our pursuits in this wonderful hobby.  LOL


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## ak1

Bearcarver said:


> ...don't make statements that are wrong.


Bear, what statements did I make that were wrong? As I remember, I didn't make any, I just offered my opinion in my first post in this thread and then asked questions(in subsequent posts), concerning whether it was possible to "cure" bacon in the way that was posted by the OP.


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## Bearcarver

AK1 said:


> Bear, what statements did I make that were wrong? As I remember, I didn't make any, I just offered my opinion in my first post in this thread and then asked questions(in subsequent posts), concerning whether it was possible to "cure" bacon in the way that was posted by the OP.


This will be my LAST reply on this thread.

*In my first post, after seeing that Alton Brown didn't "cure" the meat, I said:*

Add another one to the list:  (With others that would not follow AB's method)

Brining without real cure for 3 days.

Then cold smoking for 4 to 6 hours.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I used to have more respect for Alton Brown.

Bear

*Then you said;*

I'd have no problems with it. 

For one, the salt will draw out enough moisture that it will inhibit bacteria growth. Also the honey is so sweet that it will also inhibit bacteria growth(Honey is one of the few foods that will not spoil) Also, since the belly is not pierced there will be no bacterial penetration into the meat and it will also be in the fridge where cold temps will also help in inhibiting any bacterial growth.

*And This;*

I'd do the same. But I would suggest that one keeps an open mind to other methods of curing, some which have been proven over hundreds of years, long before curing salt & refrigeration was available.

Look at it this way. You're uncomfortable about using a recipe that has been televised on national TV(in a society that is one of the most litigenous on this planet). But you're comfortable adding a product that is a known human toxin to your food. And then you're going to smoke it over wood or charcoal which emits carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide, and particulates(the smoke) which coat the food that you (and me) are eating.

Saying "I have no problems with it" is not asking a question. It is saying you agree---you don't need nitrites/nitrates to cure meat. Salt and honey will do the job just fine.

Then you say to keep an open mind to methods of "curing". This is not asking a question. This is saying you can cure meat without "cure", and it's been proven for hundreds of years. Nobody on this forum is going to want to go through what they did before real "cures" were used. And neither did Alton Brown. He salted meat for only 3 days---Then cold smoked it for 4 to 6 hours! That is not a method of "curing"---That is just plain stupid!!!

From there on most of your comments were basically saying how much more dangerous it is to use nitrites/nitrates, than it is to listen to Alton Brown, when he makes "Salted Pork" and calls it "Bacon".

Since you say you want to learn how to "cure", ask questions. If you don't like the answer, ignore it & ask others the same question. When someone gives you an answer, don't go on & on about how & why their answer was wrong, because you read the definition of "curing" in the dictionary, and 100 years ago they did this or that. Dictionaries are for spelling, pronunciation, and brief definitions (among other things). Dictionaries do not tell us how to cure & smoke meat. And what they did 100 years ago had nothing to do with the ignorant thing Alton Brown did.

Amen---Done---Fini---THE END !

*Bearcarver*


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## ak1

PM sent , Bear.
 


Bearcarver said:


> This will be my LAST reply on this thread.
> 
> *In my first post, after seeing that Alton Brown didn't "cure" the meat, I said:*
> 
> Add another one to the list:  (With others that would not follow AB's method)
> 
> Brining without real cure for 3 days.
> 
> Then cold smoking for 4 to 6 hours.
> 
> Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
> 
> I used to have more respect for Alton Brown.
> 
> Bear
> 
> *Then you said;*
> 
> I'd have no problems with it.
> 
> For one, the salt will draw out enough moisture that it will inhibit bacteria growth. Also the honey is so sweet that it will also inhibit bacteria growth(Honey is one of the few foods that will not spoil) Also, since the belly is not pierced there will be no bacterial penetration into the meat and it will also be in the fridge where cold temps will also help in inhibiting any bacterial growth.
> 
> *And This;*
> 
> I'd do the same. But I would suggest that one keeps an open mind to other methods of curing, some which have been proven over hundreds of years, long before curing salt & refrigeration was available.
> 
> Look at it this way. You're uncomfortable about using a recipe that has been televised on national TV(in a society that is one of the most litigenous on this planet). But you're comfortable adding a product that is a known human toxin to your food. And then you're going to smoke it over wood or charcoal which emits carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide, and particulates(the smoke) which coat the food that you (and me) are eating.
> 
> Saying "I have no problems with it" is not asking a question. It is saying you agree---you don't need nitrites/nitrates to cure meat. Salt and honey will do the job just fine.
> 
> Then you say to keep an open mind to methods of "curing". This is not asking a question. This is saying you can cure meat without "cure", and it's been proven for hundreds of years. Nobody on this forum is going to want to go through what they did before real "cures" were used. And neither did Alton Brown. He salted meat for only 3 days---Then cold smoked it for 4 to 6 hours! That is not a method of "curing"---That is just plain stupid!!!
> 
> From there on most of your comments were basically saying how much more dangerous it is to use nitrites/nitrates, than it is to listen to Alton Brown, when he makes "Salted Pork" and calls it "Bacon".
> 
> Since you say you want to learn how to "cure", ask questions. If you don't like the answer, ignore it & ask others the same question. When someone gives you an answer, don't go on & on about how & why their answer was wrong, because you read the definition of "curing" in the dictionary, and 100 years ago they did this or that. Dictionaries are for spelling, pronunciation, and brief definitions (among other things). Dictionaries do not tell us how to cure & smoke meat. And what they did 100 years ago had nothing to do with the ignorant thing Alton Brown did.
> 
> Amen---Done---Fini---THE END !
> 
> *Bearcarver*


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## alelover

Man. I think I'll just get my bacon the old fashioned way.

At the store. :)


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## Bearcarver

alelover said:


> Man. I think I'll just get my bacon the old fashioned way.
> 
> At the store. :)


alelover,

Don't do that. You'll never know what you're missing.

It's really not hard to make your own bacon.

Just pay attention to any one of the hundreds of guys & gals on this forum who know what they're doing.

The only problem is once you have your own home cured & smoked Bacon, you'll never buy it in the store again.

Bearcarver


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## scarbelly

Bearcarver said:


> alelover,
> 
> Don't do that. You'll never know what you're missing.
> 
> It's really not hard to make your own bacon.
> 
> Just pay attention to any one of the hundreds of guys & gals on this forum who know what they're doing.
> 
> The only problem is once you have your own home cured & smoked Bacon, you'll never buy it in the store again.
> 
> Bearcarver


Bear is right - curing bacon is not difficult if you follow the safety guidelines. There are prepackaged cures with different flavors or you can make your own flavors and use a cure like Prague or Tenderquick. I have 4 pieces  in cure right now and should be able to smoke it on the weekend  - Go look at the pork section and find Bacon and look at how easy it is

Once you try it you are hooked


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## meateater

I won't buy store bacon again and Ive only done this twice. Done some buckboard and some canadian and they were outstanding. Cant wait to try my hand at some sausage making.


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## scarbelly

meateater said:


> I won't buy store bacon again and Ive only done this twice. Done some buckboard and some canadian and they were outstanding. Cant wait to try my hand at some sausage making.


Here are a couple of links for you to look at - no need for casings in the beginning - we went months without a stuffer and loved the sausage

http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/index.html

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-recipes.htm

http://thespicysausage.com/index.html

These will at least give you some ideas and a start - sausage is easy and remember - if you cook it or chill it right away and cook it within a day or two you do not need a cure - just dont cold smoke it so you are safe


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## meateater

Scarbelly said:


> Here are a couple of links for you to look at - no need for casings in the beginning - we went months without a stuffer and loved the sausage
> 
> http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/index.html
> 
> http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-recipes.htm
> 
> http://thespicysausage.com/index.html
> 
> These will at least give you some ideas and a start - sausage is easy and remember - if you cook it or chill it right away and cook it within a day or two you do not need a cure - just dont cold smoke it so you are safe


Thanks for the links, got them bookmarked.


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## ak1

alelover said:


> Man. I think I'll just get my bacon the old fashioned way.
> 
> At the store. :)


Don't do that.

As others have said, once you've done it, you'll never go back to store bought.


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## wildflower

AK1 said:


> Don't do that.
> 
> As others have said, once you've done it, you'll never go back to store bought.


not so true, store bought is better than my ex-wife!!!!


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## alelover

I totally see your point. But I already make sausage and brats and brew my own beer and grow a bunch of tomatoes and now I am smoking meat. And I'm trying to finish my kitchen remodel. Maybe someday. :)


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## ak1

So, I've made a batch of bacon following Altons recipe. Worked fine. Only thing is, it doesn't look nice 
& pink like commercial bacon, or bacon done using a curing salt. It has a slightly greyer look too it when sliced because of the lack of nitrate/nitrite, but it was fine overall. I tried some yesterday and I was good with it, so this morning my wife and sons had some, and they were OK. In the end, I'm good withe the procedure.Based on my experience it works. Of course other's may disagree, and in the end everyone must make they're own decision whether they are comfortable or not following this recipe.


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## Bearcarver

For others who don't know much about curing & smoking Bacon.

It is not safe to cold smoke any meat without using a real cure (nitrite/nitrate).

Salt is not a cure to be used before cold smoking!

You could do it & maybe not get sick or worse, but that doesn't mean it is safe. That would mean you were lucky this time. Please do not do this. Find out the proper way to do these things from many reputable curing & smoking books, web sites from State Universities, or some of the guys on this forum who have been doing these things for a long time (they can direct you with links).

Bearcarver


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## beer-b-q

AK1 said:


> So, I've made a batch of bacon following Altons recipe. Worked fine. Only thing is, it doesn't look nice
> & pink like commercial bacon, or bacon done using a curing salt. It has a slightly greyer look too it when sliced because of the lack of nitrate/nitrite, but it was fine overall. I tried some yesterday and I was good with it, so this morning my wife and sons had some, and they were OK. In the end, I'm good withe the procedure.Based on my experience it works. Of course other's may disagree, and in the end everyone must make they're own decision whether they are comfortable or not following this recipe.


I am sure that now that you have watched the Show and Alton Brown read the show's Script that the shows producer handed him, you are both experts in curing meat and making bacon.

What you have is smoked salted pork NOT BACON which is why it is gray instead of pink... It is also NOT CURED.

This is from the University of Minnesota Extension Service THEY ARE EXPERTS. 

For some reason every time a bunch of new members join this type of topic keeps rearing it's ugly head.

Here are a few posts by members who know what they are talking about that all of the people wanting to get into curing bacon, ham and making jerky should read.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Safe_Food_Handling_Fact_Sheets/index.asp

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/69383/brining-vs-curing#post_227325

http://prochefblog.com/public_pics/foodcode2009/2009foodcode.pdf

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/87144/good-info

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/wiki/usda-safe-food-handling


> *Curing and Smoking Hams and Bacon.* There are numerous ways to cure and smoke hams and bacon. Salt may be used alone, with sugar, or with sugar and nitrite. The last method, sometimes referred to as "sugar cure," uses dry ingredients, liquid ingredients, and combinations of both.
> 
> *The dry sugar cure is safest if you have no refrigerated curing room or equipment for brine curing. Make up the curing ingredients as follows:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *8 lbs salt**3 lbs cane sugar**3 oz sodium nitrate**1/2 oz sodium nitrite (or a total of 4 oz nitrate if no nitrite available).
> Remember, excess nitrite is toxic.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Use 1 oz of cure per 1 lb of pork (for heavy hams weighing more than 20 lbs, use 1-1/2 oz cure per 1 lb of ham). Hams should be rubbed three separate times at three to five day intervals. Bacon should have one thorough rubbing with a light sprinkling over the flesh side after rubbing. Picnics and butts should have two rubbings at three to five day intervals.* Place the rubbed meats in boxes, on shelves, on wooden tables to cure but not in tight boxes or barrels where they rest in their own brine. *Do not use cardboard or galvanized containers. *The length of curing should approximate seven days per inch of thickness. For example, if the ham weighs approximately 12 to 15 lbs and is approximately 5 inches thick through the thickest part, this ham should be cured 7 x 5 = 35 days. If a bacon is 2 inches thick, it should be cured for 7 x 2 = 14 days. It is advisable to rub some of the curing salt into the aitch bone joint and hock end of ham to guard against bone sour. It is all right to leave the product in cure longer than the recommended time since the saltiness does not increase. Dry curing should be done in a cool place to reduce the risk of spoilage.
> 
> Since bacon has only a one to two month freezer life because of its salt content, it may be advisable to cure one slab of bacon at a time. The uncured belly can be frozen until curing.
> 
> *There are several formulas for the "sweet pickle cure" for home processing of ham, bacon, and shoulder. The reader is urged to obtain the publication, "The Meat We Eat," listed at the end of this fact sheet to obtain detailed instructions on sweet pickle curing.*
Click to expand...


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## scarbelly

Folks - please listen to the folks here with the experience and have posted the info from the experts and their book- this process does not meet any of the guidelines of food safety and for an inexperienced person could cause you to be very sick


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## scarbelly

AK1 - the facts are hard to refute- you have seen the posts by experienced members and the quotes they pulled up of food safety and yet you continue - I beleive that you may have done some research though not enough in my opinion or the others who have refuted your responses

If you beleive it is safe for your family that is one thing but to post it as a safe process here I feel - just my personal feeling - is not a responsible thing to do

Find the evidence in any reputable modern book to back up your post then we can talk

The dictionary is not a cookbook


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## scarbelly

...


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## smokey paul

OK i am not into curing or bacon as it a medical problem for me, but Alton Brown is notjust an actor here is his BIO from Food network...

Quote:"Alton Brown's flair in the kitchen developed early with guidance from his mother and grandmother, a budding culinary talent he skillfully used later "as a way to get dates" in college. Switching gears as an adult, Alton spent a decade working as a cinematographer and video director, but realized he spent all his time between shoots watching cooking shows which he found to be dull and uninformative. Convinced that he could do better, Alton left the film business and moved to *Vermont to train at the New England Culinary Institute* in Montpelier, Vt. Soon after, Alton tapped all of his training to create Good Eats, a smart and entertaining food show that blends wit with wisdom, history with pop culture and science with common cooking sense. Alton not only writes and produces the shows but also stars in each offbeat episode.

Alton Brown's first book, I'm Just Here for the Food (Stewart, Tabori & Chang, 2002) won the James Beard Foundation Award for Best Cookbook in the Reference category, was one of the bestselling cookbooks of 2002 and has sold over 300,000 copies to date. It was also chosen by Amazon.com as one of the top 50 books of 2002 by both editors and readers.

Alton Brown's Gear for Your Kitchen, his long-awaited homage to tools and gadgetry, was published by STC in September 2003 and was nominated for both a James Beard Award for Best Cookbook in the Tools & Techniques category and an IACP Cookbook Award in the Food Reference/Technical category. Gear is an essential guide to all the "hardware" you need in the kitchen. Packed with practical advice and tips, this book takes a look at what's needed and what isn't, what works and what doesn't.

Alton's third book, on baking, I'm Just Here for More Food, hit bookstores in November 2004 and has since gone on to become a New York Times bestseller.

On Feasting On Asphalt, Alton had only his motorcycle, a few buddies and the clothes on his back during a nostalgic trip across the country to rediscover the disappearing people, places and stories of great American road food. In 2008, Alton traveled the Carribean in search of America's culinary roots and Caribbean flavors in Feasting On Waves.

For more information on Alton Brown, visit www.altonbrown.com."

Maybe some did Google him but did not read all the info as he is not just an actor...

Just some info...

Yes i do like Alton and do watch his programs...

Good smoking....


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## jaxgatorz

I wish we had the beating a dead horse emoticon here 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  Or maybe we do and it's beyond my sight with the new format


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## Bearcarver

JaxGatorz said:


> I wish we had the beating a dead horse emoticon here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe we do and it's beyond my sight with the new format


Mike,

I agree, but I'd rather beat that dead horse than see a lot of people get sick or worse, because somebody wants to prove all of the well known authorities on the art of smoking meat are wrong. 


 


smokey paul said:


> OK i am not into curing or bacon as it a medical problem for me, but Alton Brown is notjust an actor here is his BIO from Food network...
> 
> Quote:"Alton Brown's flair in the kitchen developed early with guidance from his mother and grandmother, a budding culinary talent he skillfully used later "as a way to get dates" in college. Switching gears as an adult, Alton spent a decade working as a cinematographer and video director, but realized he spent all his time between shoots watching cooking shows which he found to be dull and uninformative. Convinced that he could do better, Alton left the film business and moved to *Vermont to train at the New England Culinary Institute* in Montpelier, Vt. Soon after, Alton tapped all of his training to create Good Eats, a smart and entertaining food show that blends wit with wisdom, history with pop culture and science with common cooking sense. Alton not only writes and produces the shows but also stars in each offbeat episode.
> 
> Alton Brown's first book, I'm Just Here for the Food (Stewart, Tabori & Chang, 2002) won the James Beard Foundation Award for Best Cookbook in the Reference category, was one of the bestselling cookbooks of 2002 and has sold over 300,000 copies to date. It was also chosen by Amazon.com as one of the top 50 books of 2002 by both editors and readers.
> 
> Alton Brown's Gear for Your Kitchen, his long-awaited homage to tools and gadgetry, was published by STC in September 2003 and was nominated for both a James Beard Award for Best Cookbook in the Tools & Techniques category and an IACP Cookbook Award in the Food Reference/Technical category. Gear is an essential guide to all the "hardware" you need in the kitchen. Packed with practical advice and tips, this book takes a look at what's needed and what isn't, what works and what doesn't.
> 
> Alton's third book, on baking, I'm Just Here for More Food, hit bookstores in November 2004 and has since gone on to become a New York Times bestseller.
> 
> On Feasting On Asphalt, Alton had only his motorcycle, a few buddies and the clothes on his back during a nostalgic trip across the country to rediscover the disappearing people, places and stories of great American road food. In 2008, Alton traveled the Carribean in search of America's culinary roots and Caribbean flavors in Feasting On Waves.
> 
> For more information on Alton Brown, visit www.altonbrown.com."
> 
> Maybe some did Google him but did not read all the info as he is not just an actor...
> 
> Just some info...
> 
> Yes i do like Alton and do watch his programs...
> 
> Good smoking....


Paul,

You're right, some of us did Google him. I found he is a great cook, an author of cooking books, but mostly an actor and celebrity. I did not find anything on his knowledge of curing and smoking meats, and after seeing how he does these things, I realize why. Cooking and curing/smoking are two different things. None of this changes the fact that what he did on the link at the start of this thread is UNSAFE. I don't argue this point because I have all kinds of free time. I do it because I am genuinely concerned for peoples' health, when someone keeps preaching unsafe practices to be safe.

Bear

 


Scarbelly said:


> AK1 - the facts are hard to refute- you have seen the posts by experienced members and the quotes they pulled up of food safety and yet you continue - I beleive that you may have done some research though not enough in my opinion or the others who have refuted your responses
> 
> If you beleive it is safe for your family that is one thing but to post it as a safe process here I feel - just my personal feeling - is not a responsible thing to do
> 
> Find the evidence in any reputable modern book to back up your post then we can talk
> 
> The dictionary is not a cookbook


Thanks Scarbelly,

My main concern is that people are able to tell which of these posts are giving correct information. The more of us who explain that cold smoking should never be done after 3 days of salting, instead of many days of curing with nitrites/nitrates, the better chance that they will realize that it is not safe. Of course, this would not have to be done if it wasn't for the Alton Browns of the world & those who trust his antics.

Bear


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## venture

As I said before, salt has been used for centuries.  For myself and my family, I will do it more safely.  I am not saying it cannot be done with salt.  I make gravelox with salt, sugar and spices.  The way I do it, it is three days in the fridge and no problem.  No heat there, though.  I will always err on the side of safety.  It beats getting acquainted with the porcelain god.  I am not in college any more.  I have had my time with that and breaking shower doors because I fell off the throne from eating from the wrong taco truck!


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## pineywoods

This site uses the USDA guidelines and Alton Brown's method would not fall within those guidelines and therefore is not recommended.


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## pineywoods

This thread has more than run its course and I'm locking it


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