# Cold smoking bacon with a mailbox



## akdutchguy (Apr 28, 2016)

Is there a limit to the length of hose from the mailbox to the smoker?

My first batch of bacon got way over smoked in my uds.  I used my amazen tube with pit masters blend. I put it in the from with some bacon and cheese. Smoked for 6 hours. The first test fry was not edible. It was way bitter. I like smoke but I couldn't do it. I soaked for two days changing the water out regularly. It turned out better. We finished it off. I just pulled 2 bellies out of pops brine and am letting it rest. I bought a mailbox and some hose. I'm hoping with the longer travel time the smoke will cool more and not have the creosote taste. I have 20 feet of vent hose and was wondering if you can get it too long where friction overcomes smoke pressure.  I guess I can adjust as I go. I just don't want to ruin more bellies. 

Thanks
Jason


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## mr t 59874 (Apr 28, 2016)

Smooth stove pipe will work much better and be more efficient. The longer the run the cleaner and smoother the smoke will be. Start with 3 or four sections of pipe and you will see. Place it so it is on a slight incline to your food box. 

T


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## driedstick (Apr 28, 2016)

Following,,, first bacons myself dry brining and I have the MES 30 with mailbox mod also that I was going to use,,, not a long stretch on mine,,, MR T knows,,,  Yep the longer the better.. I just have no room for a longer tube right now on my cart that my MES is sitting on. 

I was going to go with corn cob pellets on my smoke

Good luck and let us know

DS


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## SmokinAl (Apr 28, 2016)

Sounds like Mr T has you covered!

Let us know how it turns out.

Al


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## essexsmoker (Apr 28, 2016)

I'm gagging to try this too.

I want to cold smoke mine.

On a calculator I found it says taking the skin off require more cure? Surly you get better penetration with skin off and therefore need less?

Is there any benefit in taking the skin off beforehand? Most sites seem to say not.


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## akdutchguy (Apr 28, 2016)

The slaughter house we take the pigs to always skins them out so I've never done it skin on. Will see if I can pick up some smooth pipe. I would like to get some smoke on this weekend because I am really low on bacon . I'm debating in trying a batch with corncob, or stickicking with pitmasters
Jason


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 28, 2016)

essexsmoker said:


> I'm gagging to try this too.
> 
> I want to cold smoke mine.
> 
> ...



Skin on requires more time to cure  than skin off.


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## mr t 59874 (Apr 28, 2016)

AKDutchguy said:


> I'm debating in trying a batch with corncob, or stickicking with pitmasters
> Jason


Try both, each produces good results. Keep good detailed notes including the color and density of your smoke.

T


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## daveomak (Apr 28, 2016)

AKDutchguy, evening...   The TUBE smoke generator produces a lot of smoke...  When laid on the horizontal, try filling it half way up the tube to reduce the smoke....   or get the AMNPS maze smoke generator....  it produces less smoke than the tube....   OR pull a MrT trick...  Grind up the pellets in a blender / food processor into a fine dust...  burn the dust....  try it in a half full tube as mentioned above or it works well in the AMNPS...   it produces a colder smoke and less smoke than the Maze with pellets.....

Anywho, keep notes...  there are so many variables that when you find the magic combination, you will want to know exactly how you accomplished that magical feat....

Good luck......


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## essexsmoker (Apr 29, 2016)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> essexsmoker said:
> 
> 
> > I'm...
> ...



Just checked page again and now it's giving the same amount of cure for skin on or off. =/
Will have to try it on my pc when I get home.

How much longer does it take skin on?


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## dirtsailor2003 (Apr 29, 2016)

essexsmoker said:


> Just checked page again and now it's giving the same amount of cure for skin on or off. =/
> Will have to try it on my pc when I get home.
> 
> How much longer does it take skin on?



The only calculator to use for dry rub curing is this one:

http://diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html

If you don't want to weigh the meat, etc, then use this method:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110799/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine

How many days to add is a tough one. Usually the meat will re-absorb any moisture it produces during the cure. I'd have to say once that happens I'd add a few more days and call it good.


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2016)

FWIW, the USDA regulates *COMMERICAL* bacon makers.....  You need not follow commercial guidelines, but I highly recommend it...

Brine cured bacon max. allowable ingoing nitrite

skin off -- 120 Ppm

skin on -- 108 Ppm

Dry rubbed bacon max. allowable ingoing nitrite

skin off -- 200 Ppm

skin on -- 180 Ppm

There is a 10% reduction of nitrite with the skin on.....

NOW, this is for commercial processors...   You can do what ever you want...

ALSO, nitrate is not allowed in commercial bacon....  the same goes where you can do what ever you want

Regardless of the curing method used, restricted ingredient calculations for bacon are based on

the *green weight *of the skinless belly. For rind-on bacon, e.g., where the skin is sold as part of

the finished product, a restricted ingredient conversion calculation is necessary. *Nitrate is no*

*longer permitted in any curing method for bacon.*

! *Ingredient Limits*

< *Pumped and/or Massaged Bacon (rind-off): *An amount of 120 ppm sodium

nitrite (or 148 ppm potassium nitrite), ingoing, is required in pumped and/or massaged bacon,

except that 100 ppm sodium nitrite (or 123 ppm potassium nitrite) is permitted with an

appropriate partial quality control program, and except that 40 - 80 ppm sodium nitrite (or 49 -

99 ppm potassium nitrite) is permitted if sugar and a lactic acid starter culture are used. *550 ppm*

*sodium ascorbate or sodium erythorbate (isoascorbate), ingoing, is required in pumped and*

*massaged bacon, in addition to any prescribed amount of nitrite.*

< *Immersion Cured Bacon (rind-off): *A maximum of 120 ppm of nitrite or

equivalent of potassium nitrite (148 ppm) can be used in immersion cured bacon. *Note: *_the_

_calculation method for nitrite in immersion cured bacon is the same as that for nitrite in other_

_immersion cured products. Refer to pages 21-24._

< *Dry Cured Bacon (rind-off): *A maximum of 200 ppm of nitrite or equivalent of

potassium nitrite (246 ppm) can be used in dry cured bacon. *Note: *_the calculation method for_

_nitrite in dry cured bacon is the same as that for nitrite in other dry cured products. Refer to_

_pages 24-27._

< *Pumped, Massaged, Immersion Cured, or Dry Cured Bacon (rind-on): *The

maximum limit for ingoing nitrite and sodium ascorbate or sodium erythorbate must be adjusted if

bacon is prepared from pork bellies with attached skin (rind-on). A pork belly's weight is

comprised of approximately 10 percent skin. Since the skin retains practically no cure solution or

cure agent, the maximum ingoing nitrite and sodium ascorbate or erythorbate limits must be

reduced by 10 percent. For example, the maximum ingoing limit for nitrite and sodium ascorbate

or erythorbate for pumped pork bellies with attached skin would be 108 ppm [120 ppm ! 12 ppm

(120 × .10)] and 495 ppm [550 ppm ! 55 ppm (550 × .10)], respectively.


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## akdutchguy (Apr 29, 2016)

DaveOmak said:


> AKDutchguy, evening...     get the AMNPS maze smoke generator....  it produces less smoke than the tube....   OR pull a MrT trick...  Grind up the pellets in a blender / food processor into a fine dust...  burn the dust....  try it in a half full tube as mentioned above or it works well in the AMNPS...   it produces a colder smoke and less smoke than the Maze with pellets.....
> Anywho, keep notes...  there are so many variables that when you find the magic combination, you will want to know exactly how you accomplished that magical feat....
> 
> Good luck......



Thanks Dave. I have the maze also. I think I will try it on this batch. The last time I used it I had a momentary lack of genius. I ran out of discs for my bradley. The wife wanted ribs  I threw the maze in the smoker and put it in at 220 and went to play with the kids. Checked on things about 2 hours later and couldn't get the door open. Apparently the little maze went inferno and melted the door seal and melted the thermo switch. I should have taken a pic they were the most beautiful Cajun blackened ribs you have seen. The only down side it smelled like a tire fire. 

How long do you smoke for with the maze? Do you recommend still using the mailbox

Jason


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## mr t 59874 (Apr 29, 2016)

AKDutchguy said:


> How long do you smoke for with the maze? Do you recommend still using the mailbox
> 
> Jason


The time anything is smoked depends on the color and density of the smoke. For instance, I smoke my bacon for approx. three days with a very light smoke. Perhaps the following will help.  Mr. T's "Sugar Cured Bacon"  - Understanding Smoke Management - updated 12/08/14

T


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## akdutchguy (May 5, 2016)

So the bacon is done curing and aging. I'm going to try to cold smoke them tonight. Couple questions. I have 2 options in pipe. I have a 20 foot flex aluminum dryer duct or a 5 foot rigid duct. The rigid is galvanized. Wasn't sure if it would be safe to use being low temp. Home repot only had galvinized. I would perfer the rigid if it isn't going to kill me. Second question:  do I need to turn on the heat in the bradley to keep the draft going?  I'm not sure how low I can put it. 
Jason


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## daveomak (May 6, 2016)

if  you can get a continuous rise in the flex or rigid pipe, the heat generated by the smoke generator "may" keep the air flow moving...   If not, a periodic "turn on the heat" to get the flow going, then turn it off...  My MES has a dimmer switch on the element and I can control the heat to about 30 degrees above ambient and from 100 upward...  At times, I have to turn the element on and off to keep the temperature correct...  at least until the meat gets up to temp and the extra thermal mass helps a lot...

The longer flex duct will produce the cleanest smoke...   If possible, try it... if not, the shorter rigid duct will do...  Cold smoking using zinc galvanizing isn't a problem...   NOW, if it catches on fire, and develops a yellowish powder inside the duct, you have just ruined all the meat...


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## mr t 59874 (May 6, 2016)

AKDutchguy said:


> So the bacon is done curing and aging. I'm going to try to cold smoke them tonight. Couple questions. I have 2 options in pipe. I have a 20 foot flex aluminum dryer duct or a 5 foot rigid duct. The rigid is galvanized. Wasn't sure if it would be safe to use being low temp. Home repot only had galvinized. I would perfer the rigid if it isn't going to kill me. Second question: do I need to turn on the heat in the bradley to keep the draft going? I'm not sure how low I can put it.
> Jason


Personally, I would use both, rigid out of the product chamber, flex out of the mailbox. As for the draft, Dave is correct, an incline is needed from the mailbox to the food chamber. This is where the fun begins. You need enough incline to allow the smoke to rise but also, you want it low enough to allow it to cool along the way. Too steep, the cooling effect is diminished, too low, the draft is lost. Suggest experimenting before introducing a food product to the food chamber, it’s all fun.

T


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## wade (May 6, 2016)

AKDutchguy said:


> My first batch of bacon got way over smoked in my uds. I used my amazen tube with pit masters blend. I put it in the from with some bacon and cheese. Smoked for 6 hours. The first test fry was not edible. It was way bitter. I like smoke but I couldn't do it.


Smoking for only 6 hours should not cause the bacon to have become this bitter. My bacon is smoked for a total of 36-48 hours. The issue here is almost certainly the quality of the smoke.

As Dave mentioned the AMNTS produces way too much smoke for most cold smoking and the AMNPS is a much better option as the smoke production is more controlled. You can try only half filling it or even grinding the pellets as Dave suggests - and this does work - but if you do have a maze generator now I would probably stick with that.

You are looking for a good steady flow of smoke through the smoker to minimise the amount of tar condensing out and being deposited on the food. This is probably what caused it to be so bitter. Did you see a good flow of smoke exiting from the top vent of the UDS? If not then the vent may either be too small or there is insufficient draw. To assist this you could either make a flue extension for it or use some help from a small fan.

Was it cool outside and when you opened the lid of the UDS was there a lot of moisture inside? If so then the moisture can also drip back onto the bacon further increasing the bitterness.

Do not get too hung up by the length of the pipe. Providing the smoke quality/quantity is good and it is sufficient in length to cool the smoke to ambient temperature before it hits the chamber then it is long enough. You are looking to condense as much tar out of the smoke as possible however with the amounts of smoke you should be creating then this does not need a very long length of tube. As has been mentioned an inclise in the flue will help improve the smoke draw.

Dave also makes a good point about the temperature of the meat too. If it is put in cold then it will cause more tar from the smoke to condense onto it than if it is at the same temperature as the smoking chamber. Leave the bacon out of the fridge to allow it to get up to the temperature of the smoker before you switch on the smoke. The bacon has been cured with salt and Nitrite and so it will not hurt to raise its temperature while it smokes.


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## wade (May 6, 2016)

This is probably a silly question but when you did your test fry did you cut off the outside slice and then sample a slice from inside?. the outside slice will almost always taste over smoked and if there has been tar deposited it is likely to taste extremely bitter.


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## dirtsailor2003 (May 6, 2016)

I never get bitter bacon when cold smoking it. I also smoke for a long period of time. I use the AMNTS, and either cherry-pecan pellets or cob. I smoke 6-8 per day. Rest in fridge overnight then smoke again, and repeat until I get the color I want. Usually 18-24 hours total smoke time. 

Depending on the ambient temperature I either have the tube directly in the smoker or I pipe it in via the mailbox mod.


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## mr t 59874 (May 6, 2016)

It would have been simpler asking how to cook an egg. Whatever it is you do, it will be a learning experience so keep good notes. Just grab the bull by the horns and hope for a soft landing.

T


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## akdutchguy (May 6, 2016)

Thanks for the input.  If I can get the amnps to stay lit I think I will give it a go tonight. On the test burn it looked like a lot of smoke was just hanging out in the smoker. I'm wondering if putting a light bulb on the top rack will get some more draft going. I could probably put it I. The bottom as well. The temps have been in the upper 30s at night. Will take some notes and let you know what happens. 
Jason


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## mr t 59874 (May 6, 2016)

Your lightbulb may well work. When I have draft issues due to smoke temps being the same or lower than the ambient temp, I use a simple aquarium air pump to push air past the tray type smoke generator. It provides just enough air to keep the smoke moving through the 22cf. product chamber.

T


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## mr t 59874 (May 6, 2016)

Did a test for you on my 22 cf. cold smoke product cabinet. It is a converted, well insulated, soda cooler with an florescent light along the door. 

Ambient temp 73° product cabinet temp 69° -  florescent light off

Ambient temp 74° product cabinet temp 84° -  florescent light on

The temp difference with the light on would be enough to create air flow.

Hope this helps.

T


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## daveomak (May 6, 2016)

Great help with a great test....    
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  .....


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## akdutchguy (May 6, 2016)

Thanks for the test mr T. I also took my chicken light apart and stuck it in. I was also able to maintain about 10 above ambient.  I still can't keep the amnps lit. I tried nuking the pelets again. Almost light the microwave on fire. They still die out after about 30 minutes. I have about 25 1/4 inch holes drilled in the mailbox and it still won't stay going. I was hoping with the light in the cabinent would get a draft going and suck enough oxygen into the box and keep it going. No dice. Decided to throw the tube back in and hope it doesn't  ruin the bacon. The fry test wasn't as good as the last batch. I liked the salt level. I used pops brine again. I put in 1/2 cup salt per gal this time. I think the salt level is on. It just didn't have the yummy cured bacon flavor like the last batch had. We will see how it turn out in a few days after it rests. I used the pitmasters blend I this batch in a shorty amnts. I will try the amnps again tomorrow and get that working better. 
Thank you guys for the tips and hints. Will let you know how it turns out
Jason


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## wade (May 7, 2016)

The AMNPS can be temperamental if it doesn't have sufficient air flow, it gets too cold or the pellets are cold or wet. Some pellets just seem to burn more reliably than others. I am not sure what altitude you are at but many on here have reported difficulty keeping it alight at higher altitudes. The reliability of the burn depends on several factors and whilst some do not seem to have a problem with reliability others do.

The mailbox orientation is not ideal for keeping it alight under non-ideal conditions as it burns for some of the time with the air flow and at other times against it. I used to have a problem with burn reliability until i rotated the AMNPS through 90 degrees so that it was never burning against the air flow. This means that the burn is always heating the new pellets in front of it helping to keep them dry. 













AMNPS Burn.jpg



__ wade
__ May 7, 2016






Augmenting the air flow also helps both keep the generator alight and also to keep a good flow of smoke through the chamber. Rather than pump air in through the smoke generator I prefer to suck it out through the flue. When pumping air in you can have the effect of fanning the burn in the generator which makes it burn faster and hotter and produce more smoke. By sucking the air through the flue the flow of air is maintained - but at a more gentle rate. The easiest way to increase the flow is by using a small computer cooling fan. If you can get one that is variable speed then that is ideal. You don't even need to permanently fix it to the smoker as it can be held in place with something like bluTack while you are cold smoking. One I use for this purpose is the SilverStone

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=118&area=en

I do not have a photo of it connected to a UDS but here is one of it temporarily in place on a Weber Kettle.













Kettle Fan 1.jpg



__ wade
__ May 7, 2016


















Kettle Fan.jpg



__ wade
__ May 7, 2016






This isn't using a mailbox but you may find this useful for tips on preparing the pellets for a smoke.


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## mr t 59874 (May 7, 2016)

Perhaps we can start narrowing the problem down. Does your smoke generator work outside the mailbox?

T


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## wade (May 7, 2016)

Mr T 59874 said:


> Perhaps we can start narrowing the problem down. Does your smoke generator work outside the mailbox?
> 
> T


Yes - Which problem are we going to narrow down first, It seems that there are a couple of separate but related issues here...

The initial problem was that using the tube smoker in the UDS the bacon came out too bitter to eat after only 6 hours
Then when trying to swap out the tube smoker for the AMNPS Jason could not get the AMNPS to burn reliably.
I think that we need to look at both the air flow through the smoker and the generator itself


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## mr t 59874 (May 7, 2016)

Seems the answer to #1 would be too much smoke or the  smoke applied was not clean and # 2 possibly not enough air. Time will tell as we work one problem at a time.

T


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## akdutchguy (May 7, 2016)

Update:  lit the amnps on top of my uds with a fresh batch of pitmasters that I nuked for 1.5 minutes. It has stayed lit for almost an hour now and was puffing out some good smoke without signs of slowing down. I placed it in the mailbox and will see if it stays going. The batch that failed to stay going I nuked for 1 min. So I nuked for 2 minutes and it still died in the box. I'm guessing it's airflow in the box. When I get the smoke flow figured out I can get the flavor nailed down. I think I need to order something other than pit masters.  I have some cob for the last belly I have cured. I put another belly in some brine this morning. 
Jason


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## daveomak (May 7, 2016)

Pics of your MB please...


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## akdutchguy (May 7, 2016)

image.jpg



__ akdutchguy
__ May 7, 2016





So I drilled 9 more holes in the side of the box. I put some ground apple wood in the amnps and it has been putting off some real light smoke for about 2.5 hours. It was still going a minute ago when I checked. 













image.jpg



__ akdutchguy
__ May 7, 2016





Sorry for the poor quality of pics. 
If the amnps keeps burning like it has I think adding he additional holes helped supply the airflow. If I would have thought a little more about it I would have liked to try drying out the pellets a bit more. Before drilling the holes. Now to work on he flavor. 
Jason


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## mr t 59874 (May 7, 2016)

Dave will help you out with the MB. I use an retired wood stove for my firebox. From the pics it looks like a little elevation of your smoker might help as well. Perhaps setting it on cinder blocks would be enough.

T


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## daveomak (May 7, 2016)

I'm looking but can't see any holes in the MB door......   

My MB..... 3  each 3/4" holes....













MB MOD 001.JPG



__ daveomak
__ May 7, 2016


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## akdutchguy (May 7, 2016)

The biggest drill bit I could find was a 1/4. I got a 3/4 today and will blow out the holes in the door. The smoker is sitting on top of a brake drum the mb is on a 2x4 on the ground


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## mr t 59874 (May 7, 2016)

AKDutchguy said:


> The biggest drill bit I could find was a 1/4. I got a 3/4 today and will blow out the holes in the door. The smoker is sitting on top of a brake drum the mb is on a 2x4 on the ground


Dave has you going on the MB. Now raise the smoker so there is more of an incline. You are getting there.


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