# Question for first time snack stick maker



## mrad (Nov 7, 2017)

I'm getting ready to try snack sticks for the first time. I have been reading all the threads that I have come across on sticks the past few weeks but still have a few questions.

1. Do most mix pork in or is this up to individual preference. Local store has 80/20 ground beef for $2.19 a lb. They also have 80/20 ground pork for $1.89 lb. I also have about 80lbs of pork butt in the freezer I could grind up if this would be acceptable to mix with the beef.

2. What size casings?

3. Is cure needed and if so, how long should meat sit with cure? I have both #1 cure and tenderquick.

4. What temp should sticks be brought to?  I have read where some take them to 155-160 and others in the 135 area.

5. Which smoker would be best? I have a Blazin Grill works pellet grill (low temp is 160) and a masterbuilt electric.

6. I have also noticed that many hang the stick vertically. Is there any reason for this?  Could I just coil the stick up and cut them after the smoking process?

Thanks in advance,

I'm guessing more questions will come up as these get answered.


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## abetheham (Nov 7, 2017)

1.) Meat mixture is up to you. I use 15lbs of venison and 10lbs of ground pork for my snack sticks and summer sausage. All depends on if you like it leaner or not. I've also done all pork. Both are very good.

2.) For snack sticks, I use either 19mm or 21mm casings. Just depends on what the local supplier has on-hand. Summer sausage, I like the slices to be the size of a Ritz cracker so I use 1.5"x24" Mahogany casings.

3.) Yes, a cure is needed. If you're buying it a pre-made seasoning kit, some come with cure, others do not. For example, Leggs Original 116 doesn't come with a cure so you need to add that in. Typically, 1 oz of cure for every 25lbs of meat. 

4.) I bring my sticks and summer sausage to 152 degrees before putting them in an ice bath. 

5.) Either smoker should work fine as long as you can get the temps low enough. 160 should be fine, but I would use whatever one allows you to fit the most sausage in it. Make sure to rotate if you get hot/cold spots.

6.) I almost always hang because I'm able to fit more in my smoker by doing that. However, I've never noticed a difference when smoking them horizontally. You just get some grill marks, but the taste and outcome is the same.


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## lothar1974 (Nov 7, 2017)

Hello fellow Minnesotan,

I ususally do a 80 % beef - 20% pork mix, its really user preference.  I usually buy ground beef at costco and then grind pork shoulders up and then mix and regrind all.  Cure is definitely needed and usually over night is fine.  I smoke mine to 152 internal.  There is a chart that daveomak posted in another thread that I also go by :

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

Temp °F / Time for 5.0 log Reduction

130..........86 min.
131 ..........69 min.
132......... 55 min.
133.......... 44 min.
134.......... 35 min.
135.......... 28 min.
136 ..........22 min.
137 ..........18 min.
138 ..........14 min.
139.......... 11 min.
140 ...........9 min.
141........... 7 min.
142 ...........6 min.
143 ...........5 min.
144 ...........4 min.
145 ...........3 min.
146 .........130 sec.
147......... 103 sec.
148 ...........82 sec.
149 ...........65 sec.
150........... 52 sec.
151........... 41 sec.
152........... 33 sec.
153 ...........26 sec.
154 ...........21 sec.
155 ...........17 sec.
156 ...........14 sec.
157 ...........11 sec.
158 .............0 sec.
159 .............0 sec.
160 .............0 sec.

The required lethalities are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158 °F or above. Humidity must be considered when using this Time/Temperature table.

*This Time/Temperature table is based on Thermal Death Curve for Salmonella in Beef Emulsions in tubes*(Derived from Goodfellow & Brown1, 1978) Regulatory Curve obtained from Jerry Carosella, Deputy Director, Microbiology Division, Science and Technology. All times that were a fraction of a minute or second was rounded up to the next whole number (e.g., 16.2 seconds for 155 °F was round up to 17 seconds).
1. Goodfellow, S. J. and W. L. Brown. 1978. Fate of Salmonella Inoculated into Beef for Cooking. Journal of Food Protection. 41:598-605.

Hanging is more for looks so you dont have grate marks and etc.  Generally you dont want your temp to go above 170 or you could have a fat out.  Whats the temp swing on your pellet smoker? MES may be a better option to start out low to dry the sticks and then bump up 10 degrees for the first couple hours then bump up to 160 or so.  Casings, are you using a sausage stuffer?  If so what size stuffing tubes does it have?  I do 19mm casings ususally. Good luck and post pics :)


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## daveomak (Nov 7, 2017)

Great advice.....
I cook my sticks at 150+ ish in my MES smoker...  I prefer no fat out..    I also add Sodium Tripolyphosphate at 0.4%... Keeps the sticks moist..  I grind 1/2 through a medium plate... 1/2 through a fine plate..  I like the texture...  I use 21mm collagen casings...  they fit my stuffing tube...

I follow the pasteurization table for low temp cooks....

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

Temp °F / Time for 5.0 log Reduction

Unit Time

130..........86 min.
131 ..........69 min.
132......... 55 min.
133.......... 44 min.
134.......... 35 min.
135.......... 28 min.
136 ..........22 min.
137 ..........18 min.
138 ..........14 min.
139.......... 11 min.
140 ...........9 min.
141........... 7 min.
142 ...........6 min.
143 ...........5 min.
144 ...........4 min.
145 ...........3 min.
146 .........130 sec.
147......... 103 sec.
148 ...........82 sec.
149 ...........65 sec.
150........... 52 sec.
151........... 41 sec.
152........... 33 sec.
153 ...........26 sec.
154 ...........21 sec.



The required lethalities are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158 °F or above. Humidity must be considered when using this Time/Temperature table.

This Time/Temperature table is based on Thermal Death Curve for Salmonella in Beef Emulsions in tubes (Derived from Goodfellow & Brown1, 1978) Regulatory Curve obtained from Jerry Carosella, Deputy Director, Microbiology Division, Science and Technology. All times that were a fraction of a minute or second was rounded up to the next whole number (e.g., 16.2 seconds for 155 °F was round up to 17 seconds).

________________________ 1. Goodfellow, S. J. and W. L. Brown. 1978. Fate of Salmonella Inoculated into Beef for Cooking. Journal of Food Protection. 41:598-605.
++++++++++
Meat generally, will only get to within 15 deg. of the oven temp..  So, at 150 ish, the sticks get to 135 ish...  I hold them there for several hours to insure the cooking "soak"...   Results are good...  moist meat..










The proper procedure for mixing phosphates is....  I don't use #5 and #6....

Mix into the liquid...
1. phosphates and dissolve...
2. sugars, proteins and dissolve
3. salt and dissolve
4. cure and dissolve
5. accelerators (sodium erythorbate) and dissolve
6. starches and carrageenan and mix thoroughly...


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## daveomak (Nov 7, 2017)

*Great minds think alike !!!!!*


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## mrad (Nov 7, 2017)

lothar1974 said:


> Hello fellow Minnesotan,
> 
> I ususally do a 80 % beef - 20% pork mix, its really user preference.  I usually buy ground beef at costco and then grind pork shoulders up and then mix and regrind all.  Cure is definitely needed and usually over night is fine.  I smoke mine to 152 internal.  There is a chart that daveomak posted in another thread that I also go by :
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. My pellet grill is pretty spot on with minimal temp swings.  I do not have a sausage stuffer and was going to try a jerky gun. I may have access to a stuffer, but have read where members do use jerky guns


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## wild west (Nov 7, 2017)

Good advice above. I used a jerky gun the first time making sticks but quickly made the move to a stuffer. As for caseings sheep caseings are best but more expensive and a little harder to work with. Get the pre sleeved ones if you can find them. The collagen caseings ive used seam to loosen and come away from the sticks and then i end up peeling them off later. Hanging or laying flat in the smoker both work fine. I dont coil the sausage in the smoker because anywhere the sausage touches it wont take on smoke.


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## lothar1974 (Nov 7, 2017)

Stuffing casings via jerky gun is a pita if you doing a large batch.  If not using casings it works well. Here is a batch of caseless sticks I did.  






I prefer collagen casings, rarely have a blow out and casing does not peel.  

19mm Casings


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## dward51 (Nov 7, 2017)

I run mine in 19mm or 21mm casings more often than not, but have also used 17mm (all collagen casings - edible and no need to peal the casing off). 

As to the beef or pork, it is basically a personal preference.  I have made blends, but generally I go all beef in my sticks with a final fat ratio around 80/20.  

If you can get the smoker down low (probably the MES), you will have the best smoke penetration below 140*.  Most people do sticks in stages starting in the 120-125* range and stepping up every hour or so to finish at 160-170* for a target internal temp of 152* in the meat.

Hanging or laying flat is a personal preference and use what works best with your smoker.  With a MES, you will end up rotating trays up and down the stack and flipping them left to right so laying flat works best for even overall heating.

I'm also a fan of phosphates and use either Butcher & Packer #414 or AmesPhos.  But any food grade (sausage) phosphate will work.  It helps with moisture retention and mouth feel in the finished product.  If you don't have any on hand, you can still make sticks without it but it's not expensive and a very little goes a long way.

As to cure, yes you need cure in sticks.  Either cure #1 or Tenderquick will work but be sure you are using the correct amount based on which product you use as they are not interchangeable 1 to 1 in recipes.  Also tenderquick has more salt in it as a base so you may need to reduce the salt in the other spice ingredients to compensate if the recipe originally called for cure #1.   If it's a commercial mix, most of them are blended for use with cure #1 (unless they have a sugar cure included with the mix).  So it's hard to adjust a pre-mixed commercial mix to compensate for the extra salt in tenderquick.  I would go with cure #1 for a commercial mix (assuming you have it on hand).

Stuffing - the sausage guns work, but are a pain to use.  You are constantly reloading and it's hard to handle the casings on a caulk gun type sausage gun.  You need an extra hand.  If you don't have a stuffer, Northern Tool has their stainless steel model with black steel gears on sale for $79 right now and just google for a coupon to get another $10 off $50 and up purchase to bring the price down to $69.  The LEM stainless steel 3/8" stuffer tube (3/8" inner diameter, 1/2" outer diameter) will work great for 19mm or 21mm sticks and last forever.  Any 1 9/16 base stuffer tube will fit that Northern Tool stuffer.   It's worth the investment to get a real stuffer.  The 5 pound size works best on sticks as if you go up to the 15 pound size, you are putting a lot of pressure on the larger plunger while trying to squeeze the meat down into that little stuffing tube.

As to spice mix, there are some good "home mixed" recipes on this board, and there are plenty of excellent commercial mixes available.  My go-to is the AC Legg #116 formula, and I also like the stuff from Owens BBQ.  You can also "doctor" or modify a commercial mix by adding extra spices.  I do this with the AC Legg #116 all the time.  For more info on that, here is my recent smoke of 7 lbs of 80/20 beef in my MES.

http://smokingmeatforums.com/index....s-ac-legg-116-base-with-modifications.269120/


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## mrad (Nov 8, 2017)

I think my plan is to make anywhere from a 10 to 20 lb batch. I have tonight free and will pick up 10lb of 80/20 beef and 10lbs of 80/20 ground pork and will try making a 50-50 mix.  Local store has high temp cheese for 3.49 a pound so I will add that also.  Do I add the cheese after the cure process?  I plan to mix tonight and then put on the smokers tommorow night. Will use both the masterbuilt and the grid iron pellet grill. 

Does anyone use straight pork? Looks like a may have 5 pounds of that left over.


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## lothar1974 (Nov 8, 2017)

I mix my meat and cure/spices then add high temp cheese in, some do it the following day after letting the cure do its thing.  Either way is fine as the cure doesnt effect the cheese.  I have not tried an all pork snack stick. Good luck, take pics!  ;)


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## mrad (Nov 8, 2017)

One more question.
After mixing cure with meat, can I stuff into casing and let it cure in casing overnight?  I wont be home tomorrow night until 8:30ish and would like to save a bit of time if possible


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## daveomak (Nov 8, 2017)

That's the best way to go...  Usually the meat "stiffens" while in the refer and then it's difficult to stuff into the casings..   Stuff then refer.. then smoke...


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## lothar1974 (Nov 8, 2017)

daveomak said:


> That's the best way to go...  Usually the meat "stiffens" while in the refer and then it's difficult to stuff into the casings..   Stuff then refer.. then smoke...



Amen to this  :)


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