# To wash or not to wash, that is the question!



## bill ace 350 (May 5, 2019)

https://www.cdc.gov/features/salmonellachicken/index.html


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## PolishDeli (May 5, 2019)

Yes, I wash raw meats before seasoning and cooking them. It’s not to disinfect.  It’s to remove miscellaneous surface contaminants. For example, I don’t necessarily trust the people who last handled that meat to have had clean hands.

The argument about splashing contaminated water around the kitchen?  With that logic, it can be dangerous to wash dirty hands and dishes.  Besides, splashing water can be mitigate by (1) washing the meat in a pre-filled bowled, and (2) wiping down surfaces once you’re done.

Grounds meats, on the other hand; no I don't wash those.


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## johnmeyer (May 5, 2019)

This has been brought up before and I absolutely disagree with the advice. The "don't wash because you splash the juices all over the place" is really dumb because it neglects the fact that as you take the chicken out of the bag(s) (they want you to double-bag it) you will splash juices. When you pull the skin off (if you do), you will whip juice all over the place, especially if you slip (it is tough to grip chicken skin, even with a paper towel). When you cut up the chicken, juices go everywhere. The cutting board has juice all over it and as you move it into the sink, juices goes everywhere.

I can go on, but having watched a full-length industrial training movie on how chickens are processed, I very much want to wash off the remains of the liquid they are rinsed in during that process. I rinse using a slow stream of water, and whatever gets splashed around is absolutely positively no worse than the other things I just mentioned. I am able to remove not only the residual stuff from the slaughter, but also some of the innards that often don't get completely removed.

The people that produce these advisories are the same ones that go around swabbing doorknobs and telling us about the massive levels of pathogens that live in all these common places around us. In that case, as in this one, they are probably right, but they fail to put it in perspective, and they overstate the risk without taking into account all the benefits.


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## bill ace 350 (May 5, 2019)

To wash or not to wash, that was the question.

I wash too, common sense telling me to exercise caution, disinfect area afterward etc.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do.


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## motolife313 (May 5, 2019)

Yes i wash most the times. Not pressure washing just rinse. Good looking steaks that look dry I don’t tho


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## SecondHandSmoker (May 5, 2019)

Yep,  I rinse as well.  Common sense tells us that when rinsing meat, don't have other food items sitting around where the meat is being rinsed and prepped and a good cleaning with hot soapy water or disinfectant of all prep surfaces.  I aslo wash my cutting board and prep area before prepping meats.


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## jokensmoken (May 5, 2019)

Sometimes I do, sometimes I dont...
It depends on what the meat looks like when I remove it from the packaging and how much additional processing I'll be doing...loose hanging fat or skin and/or overly bloody looking liquid...I rinse...
If it's well trimmed and clean looking; sometimes I dont.
What I dont ascribe to is the ideology that rinsing is bad because you're likely to spread yucky stuff everywhere and increase the risk spreading or creating additional contaminants...
In essence I felt I was being told
Dont rinse your meat  because  you're a slob and to lazy or stupid to adequately clean up after yourself...
How condescending.


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## bill ace 350 (May 5, 2019)

jokensmoken said:


> Sometimes I do, sometimes I dont...
> It depends on what the meat looks like when I remove it from the packaging...loose fat and/or overly bloody looking liquid...I rinse...
> If it's well trimmed and clean looking I dont
> What I dont ascribe to is the ideology that rinsing is bad because you're likely to spread yucky stuff everywhere and increase the risk spreading or creating additional contaminants...
> ...


That is exactly how I felt, like I was too stupid to consider cross contamination.


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## chef jimmyj (May 5, 2019)

I saw some program where the tested various household surfaces for bacteria. The Sink and Kitchen counters along with the Toilet Seat, ranked Low. The top three, TV Remote, Cell Phone and Computer Keyboard! 
People regularly Clean and Disinfect, toilets, sinks and kitchen counters but rarely clean there Electronic contact surfaces. Eating a Sandwich while surfing SMF can be more risky than carefully washing a chicken and cleaning up afterward...JJ


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## bill ace 350 (May 5, 2019)

Yup. Some dirty stuff.

I wipe my cell phone and computer keyboard daily with disinfectant wipes, just before I use them during lunch at work.


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## johnmeyer (May 5, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> Eating a Sandwich while surfing SMF can be more risky than carefully washing a chicken and cleaning up afterward...JJ


Exactly!


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## forktender (May 5, 2019)

Every single piece of meat, fowl or fish I cook gets the same treatment.
I fill a stainless steel bowl full of water add  up to a 1 cup of kosher salt and either let them soak or a simple dunk in the salt water then pat dry with paper towels.


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## SecondHandSmoker (May 5, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> I saw some program where the tested various household surfaces for bacteria. The Sink and Kitchen counters along with the Toilet Seat, ranked Low. The top three, TV Remote, Cell Phone and Computer Keyboard!
> People regularly Clean and Disinfect, toilets, sinks and kitchen counters but rarely clean there Electronic contact surfaces. Eating a Sandwich while surfing SMF can be more risky than carefully washing a chicken and cleaning up afterward...JJ



That is the truth.


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## smokerjim (May 5, 2019)

I person ally don't rinse meats, I figure unless your washing with water hot enough to kill bacteria your not washing it off the meats your just spreading it around, again my opinion.


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## chef jimmyj (May 5, 2019)

smokerjim said:


> I person ally don't rinse meats, I figure unless your washing with water hot enough to kill bacteria your not washing it off the meats your just spreading it around, again my opinion.



On the surface, this makes sense. But when you consider that according to First Aid and other Medical training programs, Cleaning a Wound with Saline or flushing with Plain Water is recommended over the use of Antiseptics like Hydrogen Peroxide or Alcohol. These can damage the skin and inhibit healing.
I always chuckle when watching TV and a woman is about to give birth. Suddenly the  person taking charge start yelling for someone to, " GET SOME BOILING WATER AND TOWELS!!" The Nurses washed my Newborn Daughter with a squirt of Johnsons Baby Wash in some warm water. What Exactly is the Boiling Water for?...JJ


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## smokerjim (May 5, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> On the surface, this makes sense. But when you consider that according to First Aid and other Medical training programs, Cleaning a Wound with Saline or flushing with Plain Water is recommended over the use of Antiseptics like Hydrogen Peroxide or Alcohol. These can damage the skin and inhibit healing.
> I always chuckle when watching TV and a woman is about to give birth. Suddenly the  person taking charge start yelling for someone to, " GET SOME BOILING WATER AND TOWELS!!" The Nurses washed my Newborn Daughter with a squirt of Johnsons Baby Wash in some warm water. What Exactly is the Boiling Water for?...JJ


i think that's from the old days when they did that to keep the husband busy while the birth was going on, had nothing to do with the birth itself


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## smokerjim (May 5, 2019)

chef jimmyj said:


> On the surface, this makes sense. But when you consider that according to First Aid and other Medical training programs, Cleaning a Wound with Saline or flushing with Plain Water is recommended over the use of Antiseptics like Hydrogen Peroxide or Alcohol. These can damage the skin and inhibit healing.
> I always chuckle when watching TV and a woman is about to give birth. Suddenly the  person taking charge start yelling for someone to, " GET SOME BOILING WATER AND TOWELS!!" The Nurses washed my Newborn Daughter with a squirt of Johnsons Baby Wash in some warm water. What Exactly is the Boiling Water for?...JJ


I think flushing wounds with water will clean the dirt out of wounds not sure about the stuff we can't see with our eyes. my guess that's where antibiotics come in


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## Jonok (May 5, 2019)

smokerjim said:


> I think flushing wounds with water will clean the dirt out of wounds not sure about the stuff we can't see with our eyes. my guess that's where antibiotics come in



A guy might think so, but it really turns out that (from an infection/contagion standpoint); Dilution is the solution to infectious agent pollution..
(With apologies to Dr. Osterholm, who drilled the mantra into our heads whenever possible)


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## sigmo (May 5, 2019)

What ever happened to "Rub some dirt on it, and walk it off!"?  ;)


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## Jonok (May 6, 2019)

The guys that used to say that aren’t able to anymore ‘cause they all got lockjaw....


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## jokensmoken (May 6, 2019)

smokerjim said:


> I person ally don't rinse meats, I figure unless your washing with water hot enough to kill bacteria your not washing it off the meats your just spreading it around, again my opinion.


You're right... but I rinse, not to eliminate contaminates but more for visualbappeal and easy of handling and processing.  I find many large pieces of cryovac packaged meats look a bit bloody and less than appealing (to me) and are a bit slippery when unpackaged and since they are usually removed from the packaging in the sink, I give the meat a quick rinse before patting it dry...


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## chef jimmyj (May 6, 2019)

Organizations like the USDA that set guidelines like, Don't wash Meat, assumes that everyone is an Idiot. Frankly after manning a Turkey Help Hotline for several years at the Culinary School...LOTS of folks are Clueless!
If you have a Working Knowledge of Food Safety, as most of our members do, just from ready Safety Related Posts here, you will know to exercise Caution as you rinse your meat, avoid splashing water around, then Clean and Sanitize the work area with1Tbs Bleach in a Gallon of Water. You will have no issues if you are Careful...JJ


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## johnmeyer (May 6, 2019)

smokerjim said:


> I personally don't rinse meats, I figure unless you're washing with water hot enough to kill bacteria you're not washing it off the meats you're just spreading it around, again my opinion.


I don't think rinsing is supposed to kill bacteria but instead is supposed to flush them off by removing the surface layer of "stuff."

I've already stated why I don't follow the recommendation to not rinse poultry, but what I didn't say is that this recommendation seems to be completely at odds with the recommendation that we thoroughly rinse produce. I don't think anyone rinses produce in HOT water, and therefore is not expecting pathogens to be killed by heat, but instead the point is to rinse off anything clinging to the surface that might harbor bad stuff. 

Aren't these safety groups worried about THAT bad stuff spraying all over the place? This is especially true because many people actually _scrub _their vegetables with a brush, something which creates all sorts of little droplets that spray all over the place.

Are there more pathogens on chicken than on produce from an organic farm? I have absolutely no idea, but I'm sure there is some chicken that is hardly contaminated, and there is some produce that is covered in bad stuff (and vice versa). 

I am always wary of advice that directly contradicts other advice given from that same source.


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## chef jimmyj (May 6, 2019)

Chicken because of mechanical processing, we have to assume that Salmonella and other bacteria, always contaminates all the birds. Beef, Pork, Lamb is Hand Processed and Washed frequently to remove/avoid contamination from any gastric or fecal matter that can contain, E-coli and Clostridium Botulinum, among others. Add the extensive HACCP controls and monitoring and these meats can be Vac-Pack aged and stored for Weeks, without spoilage. Between being grown in CB laden dirt, being fertized with organic manure fertilizer containing E-coli and who knows what else, it is far more likely Fresh Veggies are more frequently contaminated with bacteria compared to red meat. While some veggies are pre-washed or irradiated, there is still a chance that washing veggies can contaminate other surfaces. Back to basics, Work Safe, you will BE SAFE...JJ


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## dr k (May 6, 2019)

Getting a plan down where at least there's a stack of disconnected paper towels at the sink, the rack in the roasting pan  next to the sink and an open garbage can at your feet next to the sink before the bird comes out of the fridge to be placed in the sink in it's original packaging.  Then the rack/pan is a cleaning station for the turkey with paper towels and I can clean the pan and rack one at a time more easily than gripping a slippery wet bird under the faucet.  If I roast the turkey on the rack in the pan then I'll clean it after cooking but if smoking on the smoker rack it's easier to clean each one at a time for me vs. a whole bird.


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## GaryHibbert (May 6, 2019)

We seldom get whole birds--usually just breasts and thighs in Costco sized packages.   We ALWAYS rinse the chicken parts off and pat dry.  I do all the separating and vac/sealing into meal size portions for the two of us.  By the time I'm done my hands are feeling pretty slimy.  So before cooking the meat is rinsed.  Chicken is the only meat we rinse off.
We're careful not to make a mess and always clean everything afterwards.
This has worked just fine for my family for the last 70 years.
Gary


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## Carvendive (May 9, 2019)

I always rinse. Poultry cavities ALWAYS seem to have something loose in them that I just don't want. Bone in meat is a must because all too often I seem to be tho one to find a bone fragment and the last thing I want is for a guest or my wife to find one. Fish, just because.


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