# Using mushrooms in fresh and cured sausage



## mike w (Dec 5, 2014)

I tried searching and couldn't find anything relevant
I've been thinking about making some chicken sausage from a recipe here and I thought chopped mushrooms would make a decent liquid binder to replace the gluten item in the recipe. 
Having just.gotten a vacuum sealer and reading up on not vac sealing garlic and mushrooms, would they be safe to use in a fresh sausage or even a cured one? Would the mushroom inside the casing create that anaerobic environment or am I being too paranoid?

My plan would be to grind, mix, stuff, then freeze or eat that same day with fresh sausage and even one utilizing cure I would hot smoke to 170 IT.

Thanks in advance.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 5, 2014)

While Mushrooms and Garlic, actually anything grown in Dirt, presents a source of Clostridium Botulinum and in an oxygen free environment can produce Toxin...This will not, can not, occur in properly Refrigerated Vac-sealed foods and Uncured Sausages or in Properly Cured Sausages and Dry Cured Sausages. Hot Smoking, 225° to an IT of 165, is necessary for Uncured Sausages. For Cured Sausage, those containing Sodium Nitrite, can be smoked at any temp to the desired IT, typically 145 to 155° for juicy sausage. Dry Cured Sausages can be smoked and left Raw or Cooked. The whole point of Hot Smoking to 165 and adding Cure to sausage, is to kill CB to eliminate any possibility of getting Botulism.

I am not sure where you are getting your info, but there may be inaccuracies...JJ

BTW...Commercially grown Mushrooms are grown in Sterilized Soil and Logs. There should be No issue unless contaminated in the Produce Dept of the store or in your refer, contacting other raw vegetables. The only mushrooms that naturally contain CB are Woods Foraged Mushrooms. Then proper storage and cooking procedure must be followed.


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## mike w (Dec 5, 2014)

The vacmaster tips for successful vacuum packaging #10 says "never vacuum package garlic or fungi like mushrooms. A dangerous chemical reaction takes place when the air is removed."  When I read that I searched here on the forum and found this thread http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/130361/anybody-vac-seal-garlic which has good info in it about the garlic. I guess I was being overly paranoid in the case of mushrooms but I wanted to double check before doing it. I've gotten food poisoning several times in third world countries and don't want to experience that again if I can help it :)  

Thanks for the explanation Chef!





Chef JimmyJ said:


> While Mushrooms and Garlic, actually anything grown in Dirt, presents a source of Clostridium Botulinum and in an oxygen free environment can produce Toxin...This will not, can not, occur in properly Refrigerated Vac-sealed foods and Uncured Sausages or in Properly Cured Sausages and Dry Cured Sausages. Hot Smoking, 225° to an IT of 165, is necessary for Uncured Sausages. For Cured Sausage, those containing Sodium Nitrite, can be smoked at any temp to the desired IT, typically 145 to 155° for juicy sausage. Dry Cured Sausages can be smoked and left Raw or Cooked. The whole point of Hot Smoking to 165 and adding Cure to sausage, is to kill CB to eliminate any possibility of getting Botulism.
> I am not sure where you are getting your info, but there may be inaccuracies...JJ
> 
> BTW...Commercially grown Mushrooms are grown in Sterilized Soil and Logs. There should be No issue unless contaminated in the Produce Dept of the store or in your refer, contacting other raw vegetables. The only mushrooms that naturally contain CB are Woods Foraged Mushrooms. Then proper storage and cooking procedure must be followed.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 5, 2014)

Mike, Everything I can find on vac pac mushrooms says to cook them before freezing. You would never vac pac fresh mushrooms and store in the refer, they would spoil. As far as vac pac fresh mushrooms in general, I can't seem to find anything *scientific *that says a chemical reaction takes place with garlic and mushrooms. There may be but me and Google been at it an hour now and 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






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As I stated there is an issue with anaerobic storage above 40°. I would say, if you are worried, cook them as described below and then do as you wish. I am not understanding how mushroom would, " make a decent liquid binder to replace the gluten item in the recipe. "

It would be helpful to see the recipe you plan to use. I have seen a lot of Protein based binders but not any with Wheat Flour and if the recipe uses Wheat Gluten, there are alternative protein binders you can use, Powdered Milk is very common...JJ  

From http://www.mushroomsource.com/storing-mushrooms.html 

For storage, the mushrooms can either be steamed, blanched or sauteed before putting into a freezer bag or (even better) a vacuum pack bag. Get as much air out as possible, seal and keep them frozen until you’re ready to use them.Frozen mushrooms can always be directly added to your dish without thawing.


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## mike w (Dec 5, 2014)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/173481/chicken-sausage-done/30#post_1273781

I like smokin vegas baby's chicken sausage recipe and instead of using oatmeal, I thought I could chop up a cup of fresh mushrooms (store bought) and substitute them. I meant that mushrooms seem to soak up oil and liquids when you salute them and figured they would act as a binder for the liquid. Sorry if that didn't make sense. I appreciate you researching this.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 5, 2014)

Mike, that oatmeal is just a Binder to help maintain moisture. You can use any gluten free bread product, coarse crumbs, in it's place. Other binders would be powdered milk, soy protein powder, or textured vegetable protein. The mushrooms would taste good but they won't accomplish what the binders do...JJ


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## mike w (Dec 5, 2014)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Mike, that oatmeal is just a Binder to help maintain moisture. You can use any gluten free bread product, coarse crumbs, in it's place. Other binders would be powdered milk, soy protein powder, or textured vegetable protein. The mushrooms would taste good but they won't accomplish what the binders do...JJ



Thanks chef! Powdered milk it is then.


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