# Digital temp mod



## glenwillits

I've been reading up on the various mods to add digital temperature control.  I've come up with an approach I haven't seen anyone else do, and thought I would explain it and see if anyone sees any hidden flaws.  I have a Camp Chef SV24 that I would use for this mod.

Design goals:
1) Automatic temperature control
2) No pilot light - I get enough wind that I am worried about a pilot blowing out, ruining my Q, and maybe my house!
3) Cost - around $100

Approach:
Split the incoming hose from the tank/regulator into 2 circuits.  Circuit 1 will have a needle valve adjusted to the lowest stable flame my smoker burner will hold.  Circuit 2 will have a solenoid controlled by a PID controller.  The two circuits will rejoin and go into the existing valve on my smoker.  Using a few tees, elbows and other fittings, I think this can be kept fairly compact, and sit under my smoker.

Essentially this will create a 2-stage flame.  Stage 1 will be low enough to be below the lowest temp I'd want to maintain.  Stage 2 will be full power.  The PID will turn stage 2 on and off as needed to maintain temp.

Stage 1 will be a much more stable flame than the pilot, and should not have much risk of blowing out. It will also mean that I have less temperature variation, since I won't be switching between full off and full on.  Stage 1 should slow down the temperature drop before Stage 2 kicks back in.

The PID goes for about $25 on Amazon, and the solenoid is about $25 as well, so I am at $50, plus some fittings and piping to assemble it.  When I add an enclosure for the PID, and power for the solenoid, I may be a bit over $100, but I should be close. 

Does anyone see a flaw, particularly safety-related, in this approach?

Glen


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## glenwillits

Anyone think this will work or not work?


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## hollowpoint1911

I've been thinking of this feature for a few months now, but I was mentally trying to tackle it from another angle and ultimately decided to forget it because I wasn't sure if it would work and it was going to get really expensive.

I couldn't find a gas/propane electronically controlled valve (at least with very fine controls), so I started thinking about using a stepper motor to physically adjust a needle valve. The stepper motor could have been driven by something as simple as a PID controller, or a Raspberry Pi2. The potential issues with this approach would be finding a reasonably priced stepper motor with that fine control, and then I'd have to fab up a way for the stepper motor to turn the needle valve.

I like your approach to this though... Splitting the propane into 2 stages/lines seems pretty easy to do and you could probably find the majority of the parts somewhere locally. What exactly were you thinking of for a solenoid? I have a tiny bit of experience with solenoids (small solenoids for C02 fed with tiny 1/8" ID hose), but I have no idea what you would need in a solenoid holding propane. One question for instance, would the internal seals of the solenoid degrade with exposure to propane?

I think a PID controller would work, but I personally wouldn't know until it was all hooked up for a test run. I could imagine you might need to incorporate some timing delay in triggering the solenoid because temp changes in your cook chamber aren't going to be instantaneous. If you end up needing to add a timing delay, I'm not sure you could do that with a PID controller. In that case, you would need to upgrade to a "smarter" device and probably have to write or piece together some code for it all to run.


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## glenwillits

I decided to buy the gas parts and solenoid first and test it.  If it works well,  I'll buy the controller and housing. 

Here's the solenoid I bought :

It says it's good for propane.  Note that the electrical part of the solenoid is outside the fully sealed valve part,  so it should be safe. 

I'll post pictures and let you know if it works. 

Glen 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## glenwillits

I tested the valve mechanism, and it works perfectly.  I can get a very low flame with the solenoid closed, and when I open it, it jumps to a full flame.  I ran it for about 1/2 hour and I get full temp in the smoker.  I'm buying the control and mounting parts and will put it all together this weekend.  Below is the prototype version.  I'll make a few changes to simplify the connections.













propane solenoid.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 19, 2015


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## hollowpoint1911

Just curious, is input on the left side and output on the right?


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## glenwillits

Input is on the right.  If you open the picture larger, you can see an arrow on the bottom of the solenoid.  That is the only directional component.  If that were bi-directional, the whole unit would be as well, and the input/output could be either side.

I'm eliminating the elbows feeding the needle valve circuit, and just coming out of the tee, into the needle valve, and looping back into the other tee.  I'm putting the elbows onto the ends, so that the input and output come down as well.  That is to make it fit into a space I have to place it.

I'll post updated pics this weekend when I get it built.

Glen


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## glenwillits

I'm also replacing the solenoid with a 110v model,  so i don't need a power supply.


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## JckDanls 07

I'm liking your idea... will keep an eye on ya and see how it goes...  When I clicked on the link to the solenoid and read the description I was wondering why you were going with 12V.    (subscribed) ...


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## glenwillits

JckDanls 07 said:


> I'm liking your idea... will keep an eye on ya and see how it goes... When I clicked on the link to the solenoid and read the description I was wondering why you were going with 12V. (subscribed) ...


I was originally thinking I didn't want 110V out exposed to the elements, and that 12v would be safer.  I have an access panel in my deck right where I have my smoker, and I can lift out the panel and install the solenoid mechanism there where it will be mostly protected from the elements.  However, that wouldn't preclude some water hitting it at some point.  

But after thinking about it, I realized 2 things.  

1) The solenoid has a 1/2" threaded port where the wires come out, and I can connect a liquidtight connector to it and run it into my control box, so it should be mostly protected

2) It's going to be plugged into a GFCI, so it should be safe in any case.

This is the new solenoid I ordered:


Glen


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## dcarch

I say never ever play with gas unless you have safety automatic flame out shut off.

Just my superstition.

dcarch


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## glenwillits

That's a fair point.  Once I get it working, I may look for a safety shutoff to add to it.  I think with my flame on low, the risk of the flame going out is low, but I understand your point.


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## JckDanls 07

dcarch said:


> I say never ever play with gas unless you have safety automatic flame out shut off.
> 
> Just my superstition.
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> dcarch



I agree...  Here is a smokehouse build with fail safe features...  go to page 3 and scroll down to find it....   http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/157021/metzgermeister-schloss


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## dcarch

I wonder if this would be a simple thing to do:

Go to you town dump and rip out the burner assembly from a clothes dryer and use that to connect to a PID controlled SSR and your gas supply.

It has all the safety features built in already.

Possibly the ignitor system from a gas oven will work fine too.

dcarch


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## glenwillits

That sounds like a great idea for someone else to try!   I'm already too deep into mine.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   I think I have an approach that will work, and it avoids a pilot light that I think would constantly blow out.

I ordered this safety valve to see if I can retrofit into my design.  I believe I can.  


Thermocouple:


I believe I can unscrew the orifice that comes with it, and use it as a simple safety valve.  It has a push-button override for lighting.

Glen


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## dcarch

The science of aerodynamics is very sophisticated and complicated. One of the difficult thing in designing any device or structure that has to do with air movement is to predict the end results of what wind can do. It will require high speed computers and most of all, wind tunnel testing.

Once you have your set up complete, it may be a good idea for you to rent the largest fan you can get to blow on your smoker and see what can happen. The fan test, just like wind tunnel tests for buildings and bridges, needs to be done 360 degrees. You may be surprised that a light breeze can induce a strong tornado turbulence inside a smoker.

And also try to consider what electric brown outs, black outs and spikes can do to your electronics.

“A very low chance for bad things to happen” is totally unacceptable. It needs to be “Impossible to happen"

A propane tank is a bomb.

dcarch

BTW, I do recognize you have great skills and knowledge.


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## glenwillits

I finished my build this weekend, and it's working very well.  It maintains a rock-solid temp.  The only issue I'm having is that once it reaches temp, the cycle time is shorter than I'd prefer.  It cycles the heat on and off rapidly.  I'd like to find a way to increase the cycle time, even if that means a slightly larger temperature swing.  A few degrees would be fine.  

The safety shutoff works great too.  Thanks to dcarch for pushing me to build it in from the beginning.  Here is a picture of the safety shutoff.  













Safety%20shutoff.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 23, 2015






It's sold by Mr Heater as a safety shutoff to their propane heaters.  It has a thermocouple that senses the heat at the burner, and a push button to bypass the safety for lighting it.  You hold the button in after lighting for about 5 seconds, and then release and it stays on.  If the burner goes out, it shuts off the gas in about 20-30 seconds, once the thermocouple cools. 

Here's a picture of the solenoid and needle valve mechanism, before and after installation.













Mechanism%20-%20uninstalled.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 23, 2015


















Mechanism%20-%20installed.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 23, 2015






This is the control box.  It's a Carlon weatherproof junction box from Home Depot, and a clear in-use 2-gang outlet cover.  I cut out the divider between the two outlet sides to create one large rectangle.  The PID is cut into the cover for the junction box, and the clear cover is just attached to the junction box so that it sits over the PID and switch.













Control%20box%20-%20open.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 23, 2015


















Control%20box%20-%20installed.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 23, 2015


















Control%20box%20-%20closeup.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 23, 2015






Finally, here's a demo video, although it's a bit large:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109906609/Smoker%20Controller/demo.mp4


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## JckDanls 07

Glad to hear that everything works as it's suppose to...  Had a feeling that you were going to encounter the rapidly on/off of the PID controlled flame...


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## glenwillits

Does anyone know whether playing with the P, I or D settings will affect the cycle time?

I found that Auber Instruments makes a PID that has a direct adjustment for cycle time.  If I can't adjust the cycle time with the PID settings, I'll probably get the Auber PID. 

The basic setup and PID works so well, and holds so stable, if I can fix the cycle time, I think I'll have a great solution.

Glen


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## JckDanls 07

I'm not the person to answer that question as I don't know...  there are a few PID controller guru's on the board...  Dward51 helped me out...  PM him and ask questions...  get him to look at your thread... 

yhttp://www.smokingmeatforums.com/u/50474/dward51


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## glenwillits

I'm not sure how I missed it before, but the MyPIN PID does indeed have a setting to control cycle time.  It was defaulted to 1 second, which is why I had the fast cycling. 

I set it to 5 seconds last night, and was much happier with the result.  This weekend I'll tune it more thoroughly, and try to come up with a cycle time that balances frequency of the solenoid with temperature stability.  

Then I'll fire up a pulled pork for a real test!


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## glenwillits

Had my first big cook today, and I'm very happy with the performance of the control system.  Pics of the Q below. 

I settled on a 10 second cycle time, which was long enough to not be bothersome, but short enough to stay within about +/- 2 degrees of my setpoint.  When I decided to build this, it was primarily to not have to keep going out and tweaking the gas up/down to maintain settle into my temp.  However, I found two other big benefits I hadn't anticipated.

First, since holding an exact temp was tricky before, if I opened the box to adjust something, the temp would drop, and it would take a while to come back up.  I could have turned the gas up for a bit, but then I'd be back to struggling to dial in the temp I want to keep.  With this setup, opening the door drops the temp, but the PID kicks it into full burner until it is caught up, so it gets back to temp very quickly.

Second, previously if I wanted to increase the temp 5 or 10 degrees during a cook, I'd be back to fiddling to get it to hold the new temp I wanted.  This was annoying enough that I didn't really adjust the temp very much unless it was far out of bounds.  With this controller, I decided I wanted to bump up from 225 to 235 to speed up the cook, and it was a snap to do.

The one issue I found is that I mounted the PID thermometer into the back, and realized I'd rather have the location be more flexible.  I found a thermocouple with an alligator clip on Auber's website, and ordered one of those.  This will let me position the PID thermometer wherever it makes sense for the food/rack configuration of a given cook.













2015-08-29%2011.20.49.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 29, 2015


















2015-08-29%2021.23.31.jpg



__ glenwillits
__ Aug 29, 2015


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## paradisepwoffrd

I think I missed it somewhere, but what PID did you use?


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## glenwillits

Sorry, I missed notification of this question.  I originally used the MyPIN PID.  It worked fine, but I couldn't find the setting to control cycle time, and ordered an Auber SYL-2362 to replace it.  I then found that setting, and realized I just didn't understand the term they used on the MyPIN.  By then the Auber had already shipped, so I repurposed the MyPIN for a homemade Sous Vide controller.

The Auber seems slightly better made, and the documentation is far better, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the MyPin either.

Glen


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## dirtsailor2003

Late to the party! But let me say this thread is great! How is the build working to date? 

Points!


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## mosparky

Man this has got me thinking. I'm liking what I see so far. I might suggest an door interupt, to prevent the PID from kicking the burner into high gear until you close the door. That combined with a ramping PID might be about perfect for me.


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## glenwillits

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Late to the party! But let me say this thread is great! How is the build working to date?
> 
> Points!


Thanks! 

It's working great. Getting ready to set it up again now that winter is drifting away.  I used id 8-10 times in the late summer and fall. 

Temperatures were very stable, both high and low.  Low for ribs and pulled pork, high for smoked whole Turkey for thanksgiving.  The 10 second cycle time has worked well for the PID.  This still keeps temps within a couple of degrees, but avoids fast cycling of the solenoid.

The safety shutoff worked perfectly when it was needed (only once).  On a very windy day I got an alert from my temperature monitor of a low temperature.  Went out and the safety was engaged and the gas was off, as expected. It's also very easy to start.  Press the bypass button to get the gas flowing, light it, and wait 5 seconds for the safety thermocouple to heat up.

I replaced my hardwired thermocouple with a panel mount connector and plug, so I can unplug it when I put the smoker away:

www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=119

That also let me pickup another thermocouple, so I have a couple of different mounting options depending on what I am cooking.  Note that if you do this, it's important to use a connector that uses the correct metal for each pin, or it will skew the reading.  I initially bought a cheaper one from Amazon that looked like zinc coated metal on both of them, and my readings were way off.  The Auber one works great.

Glen


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## glenwillits

mosparky said:


> Man this has got me thinking. I'm liking what I see so far. I might suggest an door interupt, to prevent the PID from kicking the burner into high gear until you close the door. That combined with a ramping PID might be about perfect for me.


Can you elaborate on a ramping PID?  What's the difference?

As far as the door, I haven't found it a problem that it kicks in quickly when I open the door.  I usually have a water pan, so it's not like I get a blast of heat on my hands while I'm tending to the food.  It does send some heat up around the sides and back, but that mostly serves to slowdown the heat loss while it's open.  

Glen


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## dirtsailor2003

Thanks for the update Glen. I really should have done something like this to my GOSM years ago. Time to go visit the hardware store I guess!


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## dirtsailor2003

GlenWillits said:


> Can you elaborate on a ramping PID?  What's the difference?


A ramping PID allows you set the smoker to run at a certain temp for a set amount of time. And "ramp the temp up with each set time.

1hr at 130°, then the next setting may be 1 hr @ 140°, 2 hr @ 160° etc. Mostly used when smoking sausage and jerky. I typically run 1 hr @ 130, then increase the temp e10° very hour until the smoker reaches 170°. Some PID's will also have a second therm that will shut the smoker off once the IT of the meat reaches where you want it. Auber has a PID that allows you to program 8 steps.


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## glenwillits

dirtsailor2003 said:


> A ramping PID allows you set the smoker to run at a certain temp for a set amount of time. And "ramp the temp up with each set time.
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> 1hr at 130°, then the next setting may be 1 hr @ 140°, 2 hr @ 160° etc. Mostly used when smoking sausage and jerky. I typically run 1 hr @ 130, then increase the temp e10° very hour until the smoker reaches 170°. Some PID's will also have a second therm that will shut the smoker off once the IT of the meat reaches where you want it. Auber has a PID that allows you to program 8 steps.


Ok, got it.  Thanks for explaining.


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## fuzzy0026

After reading this thread and a couple of other ones, I think I want to put some kind of safety valve in my setup that I am creating.  I am using a propane burner from Northern Tool.













330973_700x700.jpg



__ fuzzy0026
__ Mar 31, 2016






I am planning on doing something kind of like this design, which is going to be in a file cabinet.













900x900px-LL-3605b77b_20130728_115316.jpeg



__ fuzzy0026
__ Apr 15, 2016






Do you think, if I do the 2 vents like they did, would I need a way to close them or should I just leave them open to get the air flow in there for the burner?  

I want to put something like GlennWillits did will the safety shutoff valve and the Thermocouple, but I am not sure on what would work.  Would the first to links to Amazon for the Mr. Heater valve and Thermocouple be what I need?


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## glenwillits

fuzzy0026 said:


> After reading this thread and a couple of other ones, I think I want to put some kind of safety valve in my setup that I am creating.  I am using a propane burner from Northern Tool.
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In your design, I think you'd need to mount it outside of the unit,  as I don't think the valve part is meant to be heated.  So the main question is whether the thermocouple is long enough to route inside to the flame. 

I'm also unsure about the rubber hose being inside the heating space.   I don't know, but that looks dangerous to me.


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## fuzzy0026

I wasn't planning on using the rubber hose inside of the cabinet, I was planning on running copper out the rear of the drawer and out the back of the cabinet.  I'm glad you said that the safety valve can't be heated, that throws another wrench in my design.  I might have to lose the drawer plan all together and just put the burner on the bottom of the cabinet and run the pipe through the side of the cabinet with the safety valve and thermocouple outside the cabinet.


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## glenwillits

fuzzy0026 said:


> ...  I'm glad you said that the safety valve can't be heated, that throws another wrench in my design.  ...


I don't know for sure that it can't, but it's adapted from a part for a Propane space heater, and this part isn't exposed to any high in the original usage.  Lacking confirmation otherwise, that's certainly safest assumption.


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## fuzzy0026

Glen Willits - Doing some more looking and is the a BTU rating on the safety shut off valve that you put in?  I noticed that the burners that they usually go on are usually 10,000-15,000, and the burner I am going to use is up to 35,000.  I just wonder if that matters, or if I ran my burner on wide open if the valve would close.


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## hobbyfarmer53

I don’t want to hijack this thread but I am somewhat on the same track.   I’ve been smoking for about 4 years now with a UDS controlled with a PID.   Works great until you have to open the lid and let in 55 gal of air.   The temp then spikes 50 – 80 degrees and takes about ½ hour to stabilize again.   So I am in the process of converting it to propane and use an AMNPS to provide the smoke.   I have it mostly built.   I used a 40K btu burner and use a pilot and thermopile to run a millivolt gas valve.   I use my old Auber PID in on/off mode to control the gas valve and temp.   Have not smoked anything with it yet but ran operational checks.   The problem I have is - if the temp is set to 225 with the hysteresis set at 15 for testing, the gas turns on at 210 and off at 225 but the cycle is fairly fast and about 5 deg overshoot in both directions.   I could decrease the difference in the on/off temps but that would increase the cycle speed.   So I want to put in a sand heat sink to slow down the cycles, provide a baffle between flame and meat and decrease the overshoots.    So what I would appreciate info on is:  

 1.   How big should the sand pan/tray be (I definitely want to go sand and not water)?   The burner is about 6” in diameter and flame height controlled with a needle valve.   I will probably go to Goodwill to get a pan or pot and take the handle off.

2.   How deep should the sand be?

3.   How high above the flame should the pan be?

I have been watching this site for a while and appreciate all the knowledgeable advice and opinions   given out.    Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Jim


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## fuzzy0026

GlenWillits said:


> I finished my build this weekend, and it's working very well.  It maintains a rock-solid temp.  The only issue I'm having is that once it reaches temp, the cycle time is shorter than I'd prefer.  It cycles the heat on and off rapidly.  I'd like to find a way to increase the cycle time, even if that means a slightly larger temperature swing.  A few degrees would be fine.
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> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109906609/Smoker%20Controller/demo.mp4


GlenWillits- What parts did you use to hook up the thermocouple?  I tried to hook it up yesterday and I couldn't find parts at Menards or Home Depot that would go from the burner to the Thermocouple and than to the tank.  Looking at your first picture, it looks like you have only 2 parts on either side of the Thermocouple.  If you could let me know what they are and where you bought them that would be great.  I also have to try and exchange my burner as when I hooked it up yesterday, it leaks.  I haven't even used it yet, it's only a month old.


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## glenwillits

fuzzy0026 said:


> GlenWillits- What parts did you use to hook up the thermocouple?  I tried to hook it up yesterday and I couldn't find parts at Menards or Home Depot that would go from the burner to the Thermocouple and than to the tank.  Looking at your first picture, it looks like you have only 2 parts on either side of the Thermocouple.  If you could let me know what they are and where you bought them that would be great.  I also have to try and exchange my burner as when I hooked it up yesterday, it leaks.  I haven't even used it yet, it's only a month old.


For anyone else who reads this later, you're asking about the safety valve, not the thermocouple. The thermocouple is the part that connects to the safety valve, and sits in the burner to detect the flame. 

As best I recall, looking at the picture, here's the parts I used, from the supply hose to the smoker (edited after confirmation from fuzzy0026 of correct size for safety valve):

1) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female
2) 3/8" NPT male x 1/8" NPT female
3) Safety Valve
4) 3/8" NPT male x 1/8" NPT female (Same as part 2)
5) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female (Same as part 1)
6) 3/8" Flare female x 3/8" Flare female 

You basically need to go from 3/8" Flare on the hose to 1/8" NPT on the safety valve, and back to 3/8" Flare on the smoker.  In addition, I was worried that after tightening all the parts, the safety valve button might not be in a desirable position, so I added part 6 which is a rotating 3/8 Flare coupling. I was able to tighten everything starting at the hose end and get it locked down, and then screw the last flare fitting onto the smoker, keeping the push button pointing out while I tightened it. 

In addition, I couldn't find a single part (at my Home Depot) to go from 3/8 Flare male to 1/8" NPT female, so I had to use 2 parts.  If you can find a single part, 1 and 2 would become a single part, and 4 and 5 would become a single part. 

Truthfully, my fittings may not be the best or only way.  I went to HD with my safety valve, and knowing I needed to have a 3/8" flare male on one end of the final contraption, and a 3/8" flare female on the other end, with the ability to rotate it into alignment, and I played around with fittings until I found a combination that worked. If I had landed at a store with different stocked fittings, I might have ended up with a different approach. 

Glen


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## fuzzy0026

GlenWillits said:


> For anyone else who reads this later, you're asking about the safety valve, not the thermocouple. The thermocouple is the part that connects to the safety valve, and sits in the burner to detect the flame.
> 
> As best I recall, looking at the picture, here's the parts I used, from the supply hose to the smoker:
> 
> 1) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female
> 2) 3/8" NPT male x 1/4" NPT female
> 3) Safety Valve
> 4) 3/8" NPT male x 1/4" NPT female (Same as part 2)
> 5) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female (Same as part 1)
> 6) 3/8" Flare female x 3/8" Flare female
> 
> You basically need to go from 3/8" Flare on the hose to 1/4" NPT on the safety valve, and back to 3/8" Flare on the smoker.  In addition, I was worried that after tightening all the parts, the safety valve button might not be in a desirable position, so I added part 6 which is a rotating 3/8 Flare coupling. I was able to tighten everything starting at the hose end and get it locked down, and then screw the last flare fitting onto the smoker, keeping the push button pointing out while I tightened it.
> 
> In addition, I couldn't find a single part (at my Home Depot) to go from 3/8 Flare male to 1/4" NPT female, so I had to use 2 parts.  If you can find a single part, 1 and 2 would become a single part, and 4 and 5 would become a single part.
> 
> Truthfully, my fittings may not be the best or only way.  I went to HD with my safety valve, and knowing I needed to have a 3/8" flare male on one end of the final contraption, and a 3/8" flare female on the other end, with the ability to rotate it into alignment, and I played around with fittings until I found a combination that worked. If I had landed at a store with different stocked fittings, I might have ended up with a different approach.
> 
> Glen


Thanks Glen.  Funny, I went to HD yesterday and looked and didn't see anything that would work, even the employee didn't think they had anything that would work.  I will stop by Menards tonight.

Thanks again for the quick response.

Tom


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## fuzzy0026

GlenWillits said:


> For anyone else who reads this later, you're asking about the safety valve, not the thermocouple. The thermocouple is the part that connects to the safety valve, and sits in the burner to detect the flame.
> 
> As best I recall, looking at the picture, here's the parts I used, from the supply hose to the smoker:
> 
> 1) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female
> 2) 3/8" NPT male x 1/4" NPT female
> 3) Safety Valve
> 4) 3/8" NPT male x 1/4" NPT female (Same as part 2)
> 5) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female (Same as part 1)
> 6) 3/8" Flare female x 3/8" Flare female
> 
> You basically need to go from 3/8" Flare on the hose to 1/4" NPT on the safety valve, and back to 3/8" Flare on the smoker.  In addition, I was worried that after tightening all the parts, the safety valve button might not be in a desirable position, so I added part 6 which is a rotating 3/8 Flare coupling. I was able to tighten everything starting at the hose end and get it locked down, and then screw the last flare fitting onto the smoker, keeping the push button pointing out while I tightened it.
> 
> In addition, I couldn't find a single part (at my Home Depot) to go from 3/8 Flare male to 1/4" NPT female, so I had to use 2 parts.  If you can find a single part, 1 and 2 would become a single part, and 4 and 5 would become a single part.
> 
> Truthfully, my fittings may not be the best or only way.  I went to HD with my safety valve, and knowing I needed to have a 3/8" flare male on one end of the final contraption, and a 3/8" flare female on the other end, with the ability to rotate it into alignment, and I played around with fittings until I found a combination that worked. If I had landed at a store with different stocked fittings, I might have ended up with a different approach.
> 
> Glen


Glen,

I went to Menards last night with the safety valve in hand.  I looked for the parts you listed, and of course I couldn't find them.  I then asked a nice young girl to help me.  I showed her your picture and the list you sent and she couldn't find them either.  Looking at the safety valve, it is flare on both sides, but you list 1/4 NPT on both ends.  Could my valve be different?  It looks the same.













DSC00254.JPG



__ fuzzy0026
__ May 17, 2016






We tried the 1/4" and the 1/8" and the threads aren't the same.  It seems like the threads on the safety valve are finer than both the 1/4" and 1/8" couplers.  Was yours not a flare male end on your safety valve?  I am getting to the point of just sh*t canning the whole safety valve thing


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## glenwillits

You'll need to remove the orifice shown in the bottom fitting in the picture. 

It's possible that the safety valve is 1/8" and not 1/4", but you said you tried both, so I'm not sure why one of them wouldn't fit, unless you were trying to screw onto the end with the orifice still attached. (edited links below after Fuzzy0026 confirmed 1/8"

I looked at the HD website, and these look like my parts (1/8" confirmed):

#1 and 5: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...s-Flare-x-FIP-Coupling-975-44101001/203468375

#2 and 4: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...-MIP-x-FIP-Hex-Bushing-930-15160201/202254932

#6: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...x-Flare-Swivel-Adapter-975-46101001/202848142

All of these are in stock at HDs near me.

Glen


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## glenwillits

Also, to clarify, the orifice is the small brass plug screwed into the bottom part of the fitting in the picture.  It's only needed if you are using this in it's original configuration, where that orifice controls the flame directly.  In this setup, it has to be removed. It just unscrews.

Also, I looked at a picture of mine, and yours looks identical.  Same number of threads on the in and out ports, same markings on the body.

Hopefully you figure it out.  I wish I had documented the parts I bought at the time.  I do know for certain that Home Depot had fittings that fit the safety valve, I just don't know for sure which they are. 

If you use the HD links, and put in your store location, it will tell you if they are in stock, and where in the store you can find them.

Glen


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## fuzzy0026

GlenWillits said:


> You'll need to remove the orifice shown in the bottom fitting in the picture.
> 
> It's possible that the safety valve is 1/8" and not 1/4", but you said you tried both, so I'm not sure why one of them wouldn't fit, unless you were trying to screw onto the end with the orifice still attached.
> 
> I looked at the HD website, and these look like my parts (assuming the valve is 1/4"):
> 
> #1 and 5: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...s-Flare-x-FIP-Coupling-975-44101001/203468375
> 
> #2 and 4: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-202254932-_-202254933-_-N
> 
> #6: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...x-Flare-Swivel-Adapter-975-46101001/202848142
> 
> If the safety valve is 1/8", then parts 2&4 would be: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...-MIP-x-FIP-Hex-Bushing-930-15160201/202254932
> 
> All of these are in stock at HDs near me.
> 
> Glen


Thanks Glen.  Once I knew what was needed, I only had to go to Home Depot once and than Menards once.  HD was out of stock on the 3/8 x 1/8 adapter.  But hopefully my burner will come in today so I can get it hooked up this weekend.













DSC00307.JPG



__ fuzzy0026
__ May 20, 2016


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## glenwillits

fuzzy0026 said:


> Thanks Glen.  Once I knew what was needed, I only had to go to Home Depot once and than Menards once.  HD was out of stock on the 3/8 x 1/8 adapter.  But hopefully my burner will come in today so I can get it hooked up this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSC00307.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> __ fuzzy0026
> __ May 20, 2016


Ok, glad to hear you got the right parts.  Just to be clear, you are confirming it was 1/8" and not 1/4", correct?  I'll amend the prior posts to avoid anyone else being mislead.


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## fuzzy0026

Yes, it was the 1/8".  I still have the packaging at home, I will try to get some part numbers listed this weekend.


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## glenwillits

fuzzy0026 said:


> Yes, it was the 1/8".  I still have the packaging at home, I will try to get some part numbers listed this weekend.


Ok, thanks.  I updated a few earlier posts to reflect the correct size and the HD parts link.


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## beedix

Thanks for all the details within this post.  I'm in the process of using the same general approach...you did a really nice job.

I did notice you are using pipe dope on the NPTs under the smoker.  Pipe Dope tends to break down at high heat....probably not a big issue with low and slow, but you may see some pipe dope breakdown occurring there over the years.  I ran into this with my grill fittings and then after looking at the Rectorseal specs, I knew why.  I've sense used the gas rated yellow teflon tape which has better temperature properties around the burner\grill.  Then the usual pipe dope everywhere else.  Also, just for anybody else following this, I'd recommend a ball valve for the service run and shut it off when not in use.  You just never know when a joint will fail or the solenoid seal fails.  With a ball valve, at least your risk window is reduced to the occasional day when you are smoking.


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## glenwillits

Good catch on the pipe dope.  I'll keep an eye on it. 

Regarding the ball valve, my system is hooked up to a propane tank, and I just close the tank valve every time I am finished with it. 

Glen


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## beedix

I had good success generally replicating this setup.  I ended up putting a needle in the always on circuit as well as the solenoid controlled circuit.  I figured that might give me some better top end control for lower smokes.  I also went with a ASCO solenoid, Crydom SSR, and an Auber SMD-100 PID.  Not sure if it will buy me much reliability wise, but the budget allowed.

First run with the default PID parameters with a 10 second cycle went well.  No problems with my initial runs at 225, 250, 275, 300, 325, and 350.  I'll work on the lower end "sausage" settings at another time which I suspect will require some solenoid needle adjustment so the control is between low and slightly higher.

I plan to play with the PID settings a bit.  I find that the PID is a bit too conservative with minimizing overshoot so I get a slower ramp up.  But it's dead on with minimizing overshoot and maintaining.  I'd prefer to ramp up quicker with the tradeoff of 5-10 degrees of acceptable overshoot.  I think that would be a bit better on those long smokes with a every 30 minutes or so door opening.  

Glen, have you done any further tweaking to the Auber PID?  I'd be curious to hear if you've made any recent tweaks.  Really appreciate your documentation.


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## glenwillits

I'm glad it's worked well for you, and to hear that the post has been useful.

ASCO's solenoids look like the real deal.  If mine ever fails, I'd probably step up to something better like that.

I haven't noticed a slow ramp up.  I did the PID calibration routine to let it set the parameters, and haven't touched it since then.  I'm pretty happy with it at the low and high end, for what I do, but I don't do anything lower than 225.  I haven't checked how low I can set it and keep stable.  I'll have to try and see.

I would assume if you have a needle valve on the solenoid controlled side, and adjust it, the PID settings would need to be changed, wouldn't they?  I though the PID settings assume a certain heating rate, which would change if you adjust the needle valve. 

Good luck with it.

Glen


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## beedix

I'll have to give the PID auto tune a try since you had success with it and see if that improves the ramp and disturbance (door open) response.  Auber's instruction manual cautiously recommends trying to use the default settings and then manual before going to AT, but AT is definitely worth trying if you had success.

I'm no PID tuning expert by any means but when you have setpoints ranging from the lower temps up to 350, no one setting is perfect anyway.  The auto turne's outcome will not factor in disturbances or the full scale range.  It's going to give you a fairly rough estimate.  I'm just guessing here, but if you optimized using auto tune and had good performance at the high end, I'd suspect fairly poor overshoot and oscillation performance at the low end.  So scaling the high using a needle with the existing PID settings may actually work quite well for the low end.  I'll have to experiment quite a bit if the bottom end doesn't regulate all that well with the default\AT settings.


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## papap

I would love to set mine up like yours.  I have read the whole post but is there any way you can post all what I need to order.  Links sure would be nice to use.


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## papap

May end up giving this one a try.  Looks ready to go.  Would just have to plug th gas shutoff valve to the heater plugin.   Do see any reason why this would not work?
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=380


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## glenwillits

Unfortunately I'm home recovering from a concussion, so I can't do any detailed reading or writing. I'll try to remember to reread and reply in a week or so.


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## papap

Thanks


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## ritchy

Glen, hope you are well.

Just ordered my smoke vault, and very excited to find your thread.  I just wanted to say thanks for sharing!  I am not good with this type of work, but will try to put it all together!


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## iced98lx

Hey Glen, just got a Smoke Vault 24 for Christmas and while I had my heart originally set on a pellet cooker or a BGE knockoff after some searching and finding this thread I'm excited to go collect the parts for this controller. It should combine the best parts of all the smokers I liked into one great package. One question, does your PID have a 'drift' setting? Some of the temp controllers I am familiar with don't have a 'minimum cycle time' but do have a drift setting so it would let the smoker get X degrees below target, then heat to target rinse repeat to avoid the short cycling. Combined with the minimum run time you could establish a sort of 5 degree swing (drops 2-3 degrees low, runs until 2-3 degrees high) etc.  Other thought was why not just put a needle valve on the "Full On" line and have it heat a little slower forcing a longer run time? Only downside is slower back to temp after door opening and possibly lowering the max temp achievable (though I question that). So instead of "super low" to "maximum" you go from "super low" to "medium high" or some such.

Again, thanks for the parts list and getting it put together, this is very useful!


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## Terkeytoes

I came across this post and am interested in copying this. Did I miss something with this though, how do you keep the burner lit when the solenoid is closed? I’ve also been looking at a gas control valve stolen off a water heater.


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## Waldheri5

That's what the second loop with the needle valve is for. Basically you set that as your low/pilot light. When the pid opens the solenoid it just increases the gas already going to the burner instead of having a burner and pilot light. Thusly, removing the delay and making sure all ports burn at the same time. Unless you have easy access to the water heater I wouldn't waste your time. They have solenoids new on Amazon for $15. Guessing you'll have to order the other parts (pid and shutoff) you'll hit free shipping at $25. Looking at ordering everything as well to build mine. Under $100 for new.


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