# Help with cold smoked chicken, is it contaminated?



## abes (Aug 2, 2017)

I put some raw chicken to cold smoke for 6 hours then but the heat on to cook them through where they reached a temp of 170, now I hear it is dangerous to eat them since I did not brine them at all before, so technically I had raw Chicken laying outside at about 65F for 6 hours, am I doomed?


----------



## pc farmer (Aug 2, 2017)

That would scare me to death.   I wouldnt eat them.

Maybe JJ will comment.  He is the food safety guy.


----------



## abes (Aug 2, 2017)

Yea my wife scared me, I didn't even think of it as a problem since I did the same with salmon a week ago according to receipts I read online.


----------



## pc farmer (Aug 2, 2017)

abes said:


> Yea my wife scared me, I didn't even think of it as a problem since I did the same with salmon a week ago according to receipts I read online.


People eat raw salmon, who eats chicken at room temp for 6 hours???  Then eats it?? 

Just tryin to keep you safe.

I sent JJ a pm to look at this thread.


----------



## abes (Aug 2, 2017)

Raw salmon out of the fridge that I understand, I'm talking about cold smoking outdoors, which means the raw fish was at 60F for 7 hours.


----------



## abes (Aug 2, 2017)

I do appreciate you looking out for me, I'm just starting with smoking, I have a lot to learn.


----------



## SmokinAl (Aug 3, 2017)

I sure wouldn't eat it, but lets wait & see what JJ says!

Maybe the smoke helped to kill any bacteria.

Al


----------



## gary s (Aug 3, 2017)

I wouldn't !!   Better safe than sorry. I'd toss it

Gary


----------



## abes (Aug 3, 2017)

I'm trying to figure out how come cold smoked salmon outdoors is an accepted practice, it's also raw fish for 6-7 hours in the danger zone.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 3, 2017)

Toss it! Commercially produced Chicken has the digestive system mechanically ripped from the birds and fecal matter containing E coli 0157 (Shinga Toxin) and Salmonella (Enterotoxin) contaminate the meat 100% of the time. While cooking to an IT of 165°F kills the bacteria, the toxin produced as the bacteria multiply and die are heat stable and not effected by cooking. They make you sick no matter what you do to the chicken! 6 hours at 65 to 100 is more than enough time for toxin production. You mention cold smoking Salmon. Unless that was cured with either a Sodium Nitrite Cure like Cure#1 or Salt in excess of 5% you risk getting sick from Listeria and other bacteria. Smoking any protein below 225°F without the use of Cure is risky at best and can be DEADLY! Please Stop this practice until you know what you are doing and how you protect yourself and family...JJ


----------



## Rings Я Us (Aug 3, 2017)

I did this before using instant cure curing salt plus kosher salt and brown sugar.. bunch of other stuff for flavor. I had to boil water and mix stuff in.. some more water with other things mixed in added too.. then ice to chill it for the chicken to go in.. 6 or 7 hours it was in the fridge. 
  Then I smoked the chicken using no real heat.. just some coals to burn chips for 6 hours. Was like 75 degrees. [emoji]128512[/emoji] later I grilled some of it. Some I baked a few days later in the oven . I froze part.


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 3, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> I did this before using instant cure curing salt plus kosher salt and brown sugar.. bunch of other stuff for flavor. I had to boil water and mix stuff in.. some more water with other things mixed in added too.. then ice to chill it for the chicken to go in.. 6 or 7 hours it was in the fridge.
> Then I smoked the chicken using no real heat.. just some coals to burn chips for 6 hours. Was like 75 degrees. [emoji]128512[/emoji] later I grilled some of it. Some I baked a few days later in the oven . I froze part.


This method is fine, however, do not Heat Cure #1 or #2. They breakdown above 130°F and can be rendered ineffective. Make and cool Brine then add Cure...JJ


----------



## Rings Я Us (Aug 3, 2017)

Sounds right.. yep. [emoji]128077[/emoji] probably what I did few years ago..


----------



## abes (Aug 3, 2017)

Thanks jj


----------



## noboundaries (Aug 3, 2017)

Wow.  My stomach started doing flip flops just reading this thread, but I'm glad the question was asked.


----------



## Rings Я Us (Aug 3, 2017)

Another thing I have learned about chicken.. People worry about really rinsing their chicken well.. 
 But... most newer info now says don't bother.. your rinsing and messing around with the chicken in the sink will spread bacteria all over the sink and counter etc..  they now say to just put the darn bird in the pan or roaster and the temps from cooking will kill all the bacteria anyway. And you don't mess up the sink and area there where you try rinsing. [emoji]129299[/emoji]


----------



## atomicsmoke (Aug 3, 2017)

Why does the consumer put up with this garbage? Would you buy say asparagus if you knew is contaminated with salmonella?


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 3, 2017)

atomicsmoke said:


> Why does the consumer put up with this garbage? Would you buy say asparagus if you knew is contaminated with salmonella?


Ignorance is Bliss!...We buy every Veggie under the sun, including Asparagus, and they are virtually all contaminated with a super common bacteria found in soil...Clostridium Botulinum!...JJ


----------



## noboundaries (Aug 3, 2017)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Ignorance is Bliss!...We buy every Veggie under the sun, including Asparagus, and they are virtually all contaminated with a super common bacteria found in soil...Clostridium Botulinum!...JJ


Holium Molium!


----------



## Rings Я Us (Aug 3, 2017)

[emoji]128526[/emoji]


----------



## atomicsmoke (Aug 4, 2017)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Ignorance is Bliss!...We buy every Veggie under the sun, including Asparagus, and they are virtually all contaminated with a super common bacteria found in soil...Clostridium Botulinum!...JJ


I don't know about this "virtually all"...if that were the case we couldn't feed raw vegs to babies under 12 months of age.

Anyway...CB is present in soil as a spore, not bacteria. Ingesting the spore will not make people (older than 1) sick. 

Ecoli and salmonela on chicken are avoidable, CB on garlic is not.

Ofcourse clean chicken would cost more than .69/lb, but between chicken bathed in poop soup and slighly more expensive chicken what would you choose?


----------



## chef jimmyj (Aug 4, 2017)

atomicsmoke said:


> I don't know about this *"virtually all"...if that were the case we couldn't feed raw vegs to babies under 12 months of age.*
> 
> Anyway...CB is present in soil as a spore, not bacteria. Ingesting the spore will not make people (older than 1) sick.
> 
> Ecoli and salmonela on chicken are avoidable, CB on garlic is not.


Concidering every mention of botulism in type makes some reference to Vegetables and one study showed there are risk factors for babies under 2 months in farming communities from airborne spores, they are not eating raw veg. With all the info available l think it's prudent to assume virtually anything coming out of the ground is contaminated.The spores are there,  but they are not Glued On.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






  No mom l ever met would yank a carrot out of the dirt and hand it to a 6 month old! Fruit and Veg gets a good wash to remove any nasties and chemicals before they reach babies mouth. My wife washed AND peeled carrots! Regarding Chicken, l am working toward raising my own meat birds, for reasons above and better flavor...JJ


----------



## smokinbill1638 (Aug 7, 2017)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Toss it! Commercially produced Chicken has the digestive system mechanically ripped from the birds and fecal matter containing E coli 0157 (Shinga Toxin) and Salmonella (Enterotoxin) contaminate the meat 100% of the time. While cooking to an IT of 165°F kills the bacteria, the toxin produced as the bacteria multiply and die are heat stable and not effected by cooking. They make you sick no matter what you do to the chicken! 6 hours at 65 to 100 is more than enough time for toxin production. You mention cold smoking Salmon. Unless that was cured with either a Sodium Nitrite Cure like Cure#1 or Salt in excess of 5% you risk getting sick from Listeria and other bacteria. Smoking any protein below 225°F without the use of Cure is risky at best and can be DEADLY! Please Stop this practice until you know what you are doing and how you protect yourself and family...JJ


thanks chef, now I'm really not a chicken fan!  Just like before but now I can tell my wife it's your fault bahahahaha!


----------



## dward51 (Aug 7, 2017)

Late to the party, but chicken is the poster child of food born illness if not properly handled, and pretty much why the 140* in 4 hours rule was created.  Toss it!!!!!!

Oh and if you think knowing how commercial chicken is processed is bad, don't even think about commercial sausage!


----------

