# Picnic Ham?



## foamheart (Sep 17, 2013)

I have been swearing that I will make a nice country smoked, or smoked country ham. I have made Bacon, I have made Canadian Bacon, I am no expert but they were passible. I would never start a long commitment with a country ham without some learning experience. LOL....

There are already things I would change with my first test baby this morning. Since I only started this, this morning pictures are sparse, knowledge is low as to match experience. But I thought I would post what I did so comments and suggestions can be made.

The intended conclusion to the experiment, a bone in ham which can be smoked, twice. Tastee, tender, juicy, smokie are all acceptable, but it is a first attempt.

Here's the tag:

(Man my camera needs glasses)













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Here's the picnic, did I mention it takes an act of God to find one?













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As my hands were all wet and sticky with brine, there was no pictures taken during the injection process. Will on the next picnic try the big SS injector as putting in that much brine/cure with a cattle hypo take some time and some strong fingers.

Brine/cure

2/3C Canning Salt

2/3C Light Brown Sugar

2/3C Refined Sugar

1T Pink #1 Cure (Heaping)

2 Caps of Maple extra (I know, I just like that smell)

2/3 gallon of water, plus enough ice to make a gallon. Worked out well BTW

I pumped that sucker full of cure, I know, it should have been QT trying #1 cause I don't have any QT, I have Pink #1, I have Morton Smoked Sugar, but no QT.

With my reading I am understanding that for bone in, QT should be used to prevent bone rot. I could have removed the bone and gone pink #1 with no problems. I have seen people here do Pop's cure w/ injection with Boston Butts so here's hoping.

I also left the skin on, I know its hard to get that cure in there with the skin remaining, but as much cure as I injected I am hoping its ok.

I was lucky, and found a Tupperware that fit perfectly.













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That is cure and ice and picnic. No air! When I burped it it squirted cure. So no opening for 2 weeks. Normally I use a food grade bucket and put in the garage reefer, but since it is out there full of Canadian Bacon curing still, I used this. A thought, I wonder how much air is captured in the ice cubes........Hmmmmmmmm............ Maybe burp it again tomorrow.

Now we wait.

If nothing else good comes out of this, we can use it as a training film as to how NOT to do it.

Looking forward to suggestions, input, discussions and ideas. Please. I know its too late for this one but there will be more!


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## pc farmer (Sep 17, 2013)

I am watching to learn more info too.

Looks like a good start to me.


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## disco (Sep 17, 2013)

Watching with baited breath.

Disco


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## chef willie (Sep 17, 2013)

Xtra points for even attempting such a thing......u da man.......Willie


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## dirtsailor2003 (Sep 17, 2013)

It is my understanding that you need to use cure #2 or QT for long term curing/aging like Mr T's Country Cured Ham. Or are you just brine curing it like I did my Fall Picnic? For mine I used Pop's brine and injected the ham really well. Let it brine for 3 weeks and then cold smoked it for 4 hours, then hot smoked it.


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## foamheart (Sep 18, 2013)

In the future I AM going to do a country ham like Mr.T's. I really think he set the standard to try to obtain. At least for me anyway. But I also realize you must walk first. There is so much to learn to be able to continuously achieve a ham like Mr.T's. I am excited though to be starting.

You realize, if I am lucky how much ham I am going to eat on my learning trail?

Mr.T used a dry rub which I have only tried once on bacon, I got spoiled with Pop's brine like most others here. Learning the salinity cause and effects is almost a whole semester's course, but the lab work should make up for the book learnin.

I also now get some small amount of knowledge from my Pop, he has Alzheimer's and has trouble remembering, but he used to have to turn the meat in the salt box on the back porch as a kid. So its kind of nice that he can enjoy it also.

I know I am going to mess up, probably already have, but hopefully with help and the knowledge available here I will learn.

As to this first one, I would like it to taste like ham and NOT make anyone sick (I need to find some local kids to feed it too first LOL) to stimulate my desire continue.

BTW, yes sir DS I did did read/look at yours, I looked at so many they sort of all blurred. There are so many variants here. Like I said so much to learn.


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## smokinhusker (Sep 18, 2013)

I've never attempted such a thing but I'm certainly interested. 

As for this comment "As to this first one, I would like it to taste like ham and NOT make anyone sick (I need to find some local kids to feed it too first LOL) to stimulate my desire continue." 

If it's not desirable, I have a slew of feral cats and some not so feral that I would be happy to feed it to - they use my yard/garden etc as their litter box.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Sep 18, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> In the future I AM going to do a country ham like Mr.T's. I really think he set the standard to try to obtain. At least for me anyway. But I also realize you must walk first. There is so much to learn to be able to continuously achieve a ham like Mr.T's. I am excited though to be starting.
> 
> You realize, if I am lucky how much ham I am going to eat on my learning trail?
> 
> ...


I'm sure that you will be fine using Pop's brine method since you aren't age curing it. I just wasn't sure what you were going to do after the brine process. I think what confused me was your comments on bone rot as I have never had an issue with that doing short curing in the brine. But do know that it is an issue with longer curing processes.  

I can say that my picnic came out nice and hammy. I'm not sure that the cold smoke was needed. I do know that I definitely would not over shoot the temp again on the hot smoke!  I still can't believe that I was at the IT I was as soon as I was. I think that a part of that was that during the cold smoke the IT was rising.


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## foamheart (Sep 18, 2013)

SmokinHusker said:


> I've never attempted such a thing but I'm certainly interested.
> 
> As for this comment "As to this first one, I would like it to taste like ham and NOT make anyone sick (I need to find some local kids to feed it too first LOL) to stimulate my desire continue."
> 
> If it's not desirable, I have a slew of feral cats and some not so feral that I would be happy to feed it to - they use my yard/garden etc as their litter box.


So don't you ever sight-in your guns? I am sure I am in trouble now.....LOL


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## foamheart (Sep 18, 2013)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> I'm sure that you will be fine using Pop's brine method since you aren't age curing it. I just wasn't sure what you were going to do after the brine process. I think what confused me was your comments on bone rot as I have never had an issue with that doing short curing in the brine. But do know that it is an issue with longer curing processes.
> 
> I can say that my picnic came out nice and hammy. I'm not sure that the cold smoke was needed. I do know that I definitely would not over shoot the temp again on the hot smoke!  I still can't believe that I was at the IT I was as soon as I was. I think that a part of that was that during the cold smoke the IT was rising.


I am hoping to do like Mr.Disco except with a brined cure and a bone-in picnic. That's why I said you can read all the threads but there are so many variables. For instance, mine is bone in and skin on. So I am contemplating an extended brine cycle or actually, I had thought I would do a double cure. Cure it two weeks, wash and maybe cure it again to insure good penetration. I got a huge amount injected, but it was pooled. I have never been a big fan of pooling injections. Although I did get a load a juice in and around the bone.

I plan to smoke it once, put it in the reefer, then smoke it again to serve. Much like Mr. Bears double smoked hams.

I sound like a safety engineer with a belt and suspenders.... LOL. Double cure and double smoke. I cant seem to find anything where some one has ever double cured before though. I don't think the double cure will hurt folks but still don't know. I got a lot of cure in this first brine and injection sequence.


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## foamheart (Sep 18, 2013)

There is so much I don't understand so far, I have in my head that you can't use Cure #1 for a bone in for some reason. Is that true? Also for long term Country ham you must use Tender Quick around the bones. I have been calling it QT thinking it was quick tender. Or I read somehwere else that you could use Mortons Smoked Sugar cure.  Which I do have, its for the Country Ham.

But then there are pages and pages of salinity scales...... its just not a simple thing to grasp all of it. I am going to just have to sit down and do I step at a time.


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## mr t 59874 (Sep 18, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> But then there are pages and pages of salinity scales...... its just not a simple thing to grasp all of it. I am going to just have to sit down and do I step at a time.


Before introducing misinformation lets take it one step at a time.  Two initial steps would be, first order the Morton Meat Curing Guide, under $10 with shipping. Two purchase a salinometer for your wet brines, ± $20, it will help you determine the proper salinity for a product and help provide consistency.

Tom


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## foamheart (Sep 18, 2013)

Ok, I ordered the book, I ordered some TQ on the QT, I have a refractometer in the garage already (don't ask), if I can find a book on how to use it.... I know it was pretty dang costly when it was purchased.

AND I have a picnic in Pop's brine cure.


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## smoking b (Sep 18, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> There is so much I don't understand so far, *I have in my head that you can't use Cure #1 for a bone in for some reason. Is that true?* Also for long term Country ham you must use Tender Quick around the bones. I have been calling it QT thinking it was quick tender. Or I read somehwere else that you could use Mortons Smoked Sugar cure.  Which I do have, its for the Country Ham.
> 
> But then there are pages and pages of salinity scales...... its just not a simple thing to grasp all of it. I am going to just have to sit down and do I step at a time.


Nope - you can use cure #1 in a brine for a bone in no problem. Just inject around the knuckle & bone. I will see if I can dig up a good thread for you...

EDIT: Here you go  LINK   It's a good thread by Pops on making a ham.


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## foamheart (Oct 11, 2013)

First I hope everything is OK with Smoking B's Family. Wr've all noticed his absence...........

Here we go again, its been 3+ weeks chillin in the brine.

Yesterday, I took it out the brine/cure, rinsed, and gently patted it dry. Then replaced it in the reefer for a drying out period to form the P-word. That is the tacky stuff that forms when its not dry and not wet. It makes the smoke just jump onboard.













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Thats just a beautiful piece of cured pic-a-nic.













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Here we have the ham stepping into the smoker, note that that thin blue smoke. I preheated to 240 for 20 mins. while the Amps set in it loaded with hickory and peach. Lite the AMPS, when and filled the bird bath and threw out some crushed corn. Made the birds all happy happy. The neighbors dog a HUGE Rotwieller, has perked up and is gonna break that little nub tail off wagging it. I think he has linked the smoke smell with good things.













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Smoked at 120 degrees for 4 hours. Ham is excited, can't ya tell?













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After 4 hours I moved the temp up to 140 degrees, inserted probe pic-a-nic is happily at 86 degrees













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6 hours in, the Pic-a-nic got to 100 IT, 100 to 140 is the sweet spot, so I kicked in the 4 barrel and lit the afterburner.













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I lite up both ends of the AMPS and its smoking so much, it would make Cheech and Chong back off and applaud.

More to come!


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## dirtsailor2003 (Oct 11, 2013)

Looking good!!


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## disco (Oct 11, 2013)

Watching. Getting hungry. Keep posting.








Disco


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## Bearcarver (Oct 11, 2013)

MMMMMmmmm..........

I just got a whiff of it-----Not bad for 1650 miles (Give or take) !!!







Bear


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## foamheart (Oct 11, 2013)

Since Bear smelled it out!













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10 hours total smoke, peach and apple first tray w/ vent full open, peach and corn cob second tray vent 1/2 way open, highest IT was 132. Soon as cools below 100, I'll bag and tag it with some goodies for flavor (thinking some peach rum liqueur and maple syrup and a clove or two. Then it is In the reefer over night.

Tomorrow morning we start again, this time we going ALL THE WAY! I am think right now maybe 145 after someone reminded me you don't need 170 to slice anymore.

Still crossing my fingers its OK to eat tomorrow. Even if it isn't I have enjoyed the most wonder smells all day today. Even the black rain cloud avoided me!

We will start again tomorrow! BTW we are shooting for a double smoked cured fresh picnic. Is that a mouthful or what!


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## woodcutter (Oct 11, 2013)

Taking on some color, going to be good!


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## pc farmer (Oct 11, 2013)

WOW     Very nice.


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## foamheart (Oct 11, 2013)

dirtsailor2003 said:


> Looking good!!


Thank you DS


Disco said:


> Watching. Getting hungry. Keep posting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wish I could rub my hands on ya to give you a smoke fix. Its totally awesome! If I were to get a cold now, I would be most upset.


Bearcarver said:


> MMMMMmmmm..........
> 
> I just got a whiff of it-----Not bad for 1650 miles (Give or take) !!!
> 
> ...


You should have seen the TBS pumping out that vent! I have never seen that much smoke and it not be either black or white!


Woodcutter said:


> Taking on some color, going to be good!


Mahogany: Def.* Ma*- meaning my, *-hog-* you can figure out,* -any *is where ever possible. LOL.. I am seriously in love with the color that the corn cob imparts. It just puts it in the bonus round at first sight.


c farmer said:


> WOW     Very nice.


Thank you Thank you, and to all the commenter's, thank you for your help, support, and your kind words. How did that Bartles and James commercial end...... "And we appreciate your patronage!"


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## woodcutter (Oct 12, 2013)

I must have posted my last post the same time you were posting your final picture so I didn't see it until now. That picnic ham is beautiful!


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

Foremost this has been so much fun..... I just wish you could see results faster but then it wouldn't be so much fun probably.

Today I put the ham (I am no longer referring to it as the picnic), in the smoker at noon, Straight from the reefer @ 37 degrees. I took the Smoker up to 250 degrees, lit the corn cob and peach smoke generator, placed that beautiful colored ham in the box, dropped the temp to 180. 4 hours later I raised the temp to 230. Pulled the ham @ 145. Allowed to rest.

I need to insert something for others thinking about this also. I am a rare/medium rare person. Pork loin, pull at 140 so it will hit 145 while resting. Ham I will not do that again. I assumed since it has a bunch of bones it would have tremendous heat transfer. The spot where the probe was, may have been 145 IT, it was not something I could in good conscience serve. I had lost my heat so I scored it, added cloves, pulled the skin, poured in some peach juice and maple syrup wrapped back up, 325 for 4 hours. Finally opened wrap glazed with peach and maple, Its amazing. BUT I assure you Its not at 145.

I was embarrassed with my technique, I was elated with the final product.













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The ham, baby its ham thru and thru, its has a marvelous taste and its is slightly salty. The salty is barely noticeable its almost like a country ham slice you get for breakfast. It wasn't enough to do anything but compliment the meat. When I pulled this out the oven (hangs head in shame), it was pretty close to being pulled pork! ALL that smoked area that had braised? Steamed? Cooked down in the juice, I would enter it against normal bark in a taste test any day!

Sorry I couldn't get a picture fast enough, dang lucky to get one period. Too much football, too many cold refreshments, Fingers were acceptable, a slice of bread was considered a social grace.













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Peach/maple glaze? A big hit!

Next time, I hope it tastes this good. I think one day in the smoker is more than enough. I will either cut back on my brine/cure time or my salt. The meat is extremely red, we had good penetration. Tomorrow it'll be ham and cheese sandwich's. Planned to make buns today but its football season. I can't see the TV in the den from the kitchen! Maybe I need to remedy that.

Smithfield look out, if I ever get a slicer your history. Anyone else notice that about 8 out of 10 hams these days are spiral cut? I have to get the butcher to ensure I get a real whole ham! Anyway that's a 12.00 picnic which wasn't on sale. I can sense a fresh ham to country ham in my immediate future (if they ever sell 'em again)!

My hands smell wonderful, the house smells great, I am fat dumb and happy.

BTW anyone know a recipe for a champagne mustard sauce for ham? I have had it before and its the bee's knees and with all the outstanding chefs here.........????

I hope you've enjoyed this half as much as I have! I know I have had fun, and i really enjoyed the comments. Definitely will happen again. I can't wait now for a butt to do a pulled ham..... OMG!

Thank ya'll for commin by!


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## disco (Oct 13, 2013)

I bow to the new Head Ham Honcho!

Disco


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## daveomak (Oct 13, 2013)

Kevin, nice job on the ham.....   someday, I'll do one of them...       Enjoy.... 

Dave


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

Awww no, not me, too much scrambling today to luckly accidentally score.

But you gotta try that peach maple glaze Disco, the sweet perfectly offset that slightly salty ham.

But I do appreciate the kind words of encouragement my friend.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 13, 2013)

All looks Great from here!!!

Pulled cured Pork is good too----325* for an extra 4 hours could do that, but it still tastes Awesome!!!

Awesome Sammies for the Football Games are coming!!

Bear


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## disco (Oct 13, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> Awww no, not me, too much scrambling today to luckly accidentally score.
> 
> But you gotta try that peach maple glaze Disco, the sweet perfectly offset that slightly salty ham.
> 
> But I do appreciate the kind words of encouragement my friend.


I will give it a try. I have done a plum glaze before but peaches definitely have a nice flavour that would go with ham.

Disco


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

DaveOmak said:


> Kevin, nice job on the ham.....   someday, I'll do one of them...       Enjoy....
> 
> Dave


Thank you sir, to state the obvious, couldn't do it without all the support here on the boards. You guys are all great. I don't think I have ever been around so many cooks and chefs who so freely gave of their experience and wisdom. Usually its all played close to the vest like someone was going to steal your best recipe. I was the same way!  Its just a great site with great folks.

My Mom loved to collect recipes, it was almost like a friendship ritual. If she asked you for a recipe you had made the team. And she NEVER gave a recipe away, although she was always flattered to be asked. Nope, only way to get one of her recipes is to be an accepted friend and to swap one of yours for the one you wanted of hers. Before she died, she got all the grand and great grand kids a recipe box, she hand copied only 5 or 10 of her very best recipes and put in the box for each person. No two got the same recipes, no one but me ever noticed that. This way they will have to call one another when they need one another's recipes. Really smart lady. Me, I didn't get one..... I got her recipe box!


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> All looks Great from here!!!
> 
> Pulled cured Pork is good too----325* for an extra 4 hours could do that, but it still tastes Awesome!!!
> 
> ...


Well it fulfilled 3 goals. My first ham - look out country smoked next, my first double smoked which in its self was worth the effort (I learned a bunch), as a tastee meal and no one got sick! It was so right on the verge of being pulled too! Saving that for a butt though. I won't be buying store bought hams anymore though!

Next time I want a stronger maple influnce, but those cloves were spot on! I always suggest using local fruits veggies and meats. Thats why I went peach/maple glaze. Man that is total awesome sauce on a ham!

This place is so cool to learn and grow with, nice to have folks around who appreciate the smoke and don't mind sharing the knowledge.


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## dert (Oct 13, 2013)

Looks great, can't wait to do one!


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## daveomak (Oct 13, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> My Mom loved to collect recipes, it was almost like a friendship ritual. If she asked you for a recipe you had made the team. And she NEVER gave a recipe away, although she was always flattered to be asked. Nope, only way to get one of her recipes is to be an accepted friend and to swap one of yours for the one you wanted of hers. Before she died, she got all the grand and great grand kids a recipe box, she hand copied only 5 or 10 of her very best recipes and put in the box for each person. No two got the same recipes, no one but me ever noticed that. This way they will have to call one another when they need one another's recipes. Really smart lady. Me, I didn't get one.....* I got her recipe box!*


With or without the recipes......


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

Dert said:


> Looks great, can't wait to do one!


Well I missed the photo session again. Obviously it sold well, even the butcher dropped by wanting to see what I was doing.... at just about lunch time....LOL

Bear got me thinking, I cleaned up those pan juices (I could just drnk that), and pulled the left over ham from last night.

Guess whats next? Need a hint?













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Thats right youse guys from up north think different, here's another hint!













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OMG! I know Monday is supposed to be red beans and sausage but...... if ya lived in West Texas ain't much better than a big pot of pinto's with a ham bone. It just goes with BBQ!


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## pc farmer (Oct 13, 2013)

VERY NICE 

Good job Foam.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 13, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> Well I missed the photo session again. Obviously it sold well, even the butcher dropped by wanting to see what I was doing.... at just about lunch time....LOL
> 
> Bear got me thinking, I cleaned up those pan juices (I could just drnk that), and pulled the left over ham from last night.
> 
> ...


LOL----Not really so much different:

Check this link for PA Dutch Yankee Food:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/106932/ham-beans-taters-leftovers-from-my-double-smoked-ham-twins













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Bear


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

Bearcarver said:


> LOL----Not really so much different:
> 
> Check this link for PA Dutch Yankee Food:
> 
> ...


Ya know what Bear might be the military in ya, no matter how much ya fought it, but I believe had we met anywhere we woulda been friends. After we decided that neither one of us was gonna win.... LOL


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

c farmer said:


> VERY NICE
> 
> Good job Foam.


Thank ya sir....... I am still in a state of wonder.

Its like winning a sales contract, the whole time they are evaluating you worry about where ya missed and could have quoted lower. Then they announce you won and you immediately pull it and run numbers in abject fear wondering where you miscalculated to win.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 13, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> Ya know what Bear might be the military in ya, no matter how much ya fought it, but I believe had we met anywhere we woulda been friends. After we decided that neither one of us was gonna win.... LOL


LOL----My best Vietnam friend was from West Monroe, LA. Stationed with him in Ft Hood too, but he won---His ETS was 3 weeks before mine.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Wasn't trying to "win" anything.   Just replying that your "Ham & Beans" is similar to ours, as opposed to those of us in The North Think Different".

Bear


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## foamheart (Oct 13, 2013)

We'd have had to butt heads as kids first......You know we would've. Then we'd've figured it all out. LOL

Obviously my win was a poor choice of wording.  I was refering to butting our heads together. Telling ya, too much alike.


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## foamheart (Oct 14, 2013)

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And today!! Pinto beans cooked in the above pot with the ham bone, taters, mustard greens and hot conbread! The bone was smoked so its a smoked food plate!

OMG, makes ya feel sorry for the city folks.


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## disco (Oct 14, 2013)

That plate looks great. Just to upset you, my mother used to make cornbread for dessert. Take it right out of the oven, butter it and drizzle honey on it. The first time it was served to me with a meal I thought they were nuts.

Disco


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## daveomak (Oct 14, 2013)

Disco said:


> That plate looks great. Just to upset you, my mother used to make cornbread for dessert. Take it right out of the oven, butter it and drizzle honey on it. The first time it was served to me with a meal I thought they were nuts.
> 
> Disco


Ain't it great how mothers and grandmothers can instill "norms" at the dinner table.....


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## foamheart (Oct 14, 2013)

Disco said:


> That plate looks great. Just to upset you, my mother used to make cornbread for dessert. Take it right out of the oven, butter it and drizzle honey on it. The first time it was served to me with a meal I thought they were nuts.
> 
> Disco


Pop taught me, he crumbles up some cornbread is a glass of sweet milk for desert. He always swore it was good for digestion. I think he just liked it.

One of the local seafood resturants started offering hushpuppies with butter and honey for appetizers. They made a fortune! And their hushpuppies weren't that good!


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## disco (Oct 15, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> Pop taught me, he crumbles up some cornbread is a glass of sweet milk for desert. He always swore it was good for digestion. I think he just liked it.
> 
> One of the local seafood resturants started offering hushpuppies with butter and honey for appetizers. They made a fortune! And their hushpuppies weren't that good!


It is interesting how different areas do the same dishes. Years ago, some relatives of the missus came from England and I served pancakes for breakfast. They were liked them but thought pancakes were for luncheon.

Disco


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## Bearcarver (Oct 15, 2013)

Foamheart said:


> 002.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good looking plate there, Foamy!!!

I don't think my mother knew how to make Cornbread, so I couldn't put it in my milk.

I had to settle for Donut Soup.(Busted up donuts in a bowl of milk)

Bear


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## woodcutter (Oct 15, 2013)

Looks like good eating! But to be honest I wouldn't know what mustard greens were if I was sitting in them.


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## oldeboone (Dec 25, 2014)

Thanks for clearing up the QT thing. I was just getting ready to ask the question !!! Boone


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