# Temperature control on Masterbuilt smoker.



## Icefever (Oct 31, 2021)

Hi guys..

I bought an MBS about 6 months back used it a few times,  to do ribs & tri-tip....not too sure if I'm running correctly??.the temp control is all over the place.







I've been making bacon for a couple of years now...(dry cure)...this morning I had 3 slabs of cured bacon and we decided to smoke 2 of them. Now, normally  I cold smoke using a maze, and keep the temp under 20c....then cool, slice, vac-pack, & freeze.

 I'd been reading & watched TulsaJeff's video on smoking bacon, so this morning I set up the smoker at 180°F (82°C) , popped in the bacon with temp probes in both and one for an internal temp of the smoker....I've never done this method were you smoke up to where it reaches 145°F (63°C).

Now, this is where it went pear-shaped,  the temp inside the smoker shot up to 92c...I use an Inkbird 4 probe one for when I'm using the BBQ.

I tried the air vent in a number of slots, wide-open down to almost closed.  After trying for maybe an hour without success, I resorted to opening the door an inch and used gaffer tape to hold at this. this seemed to help, but it's not what you want when your smoking, now I'm thinking about what was going on??.any advice or tips.

Is it because the bacon was dry-cured instead of wet??  I can't see that making any difference at all???


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 31, 2021)

Did it go to 92°C and stay there, or was that the high end of a Temp Swing?
+/-10°C (20°F) Swings are normal for the MES smokers with that older style controller. It is also not unusual for a separate Thermometer to read a 10°+ difference in temp at the meat grate compared to what the MES display says.
MES owners set the Smoker Temp by what the temp at meat level is and ignore what the Smoker Controller says the temp is...JJ


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## Brokenhandle (Oct 31, 2021)

My mes easily had 30 degree temp swings and stock therm could be 50 degrees off... that is a big range! I  now use an auber pid and hold within a couple degrees.  Were you using a trusted and tested thermometer?

Ryan


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## Ringer (Oct 31, 2021)

Brokenhandle said:


> My mes easily had 30 degree temp swings and stock therm could be 50 degrees off... that is a big range! I  now use an auber pid and hold within a couple degrees.  Were you using a trusted and tested thermometer?
> 
> Ryan


I second the auber pid if you are looking to upgrade.


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## chopsaw (Oct 31, 2021)

Brokenhandle said:


> My mes easily had 30 degree temp swings


Yup . Same here . Switched to an Auber and now it get good steady temps .


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## Icefever (Oct 31, 2021)

Many thanks guys....



chef jimmyj said:


> Did it go to 92°C and stay there, or was that the high end of a Temp Swing?
> +/-10°C (20°F) Swings are normal for the MES smokers with that older style controller. It is also not unusual for a separate Thermometer to read a 10°+ difference in temp at the meat grate compared to what the MES display says.
> MES owners set the Smoker Temp by what the temp at meat level is and ignore what the Smoker Controller says the temp is...JJ


Yes JJ...at the start,  then through most of the day it was swinging 80c/92c, at one point where I didn't want the bacon to cook anymore, that was when I opened the door so that the temp would drop quickly, which it did down to around 70c.
It's a shock to learn that there is such a large difference in temp swing   I didn't expect that from a manufacturer like MB,

@ Brokenhandle.
@ Ringer.


 chopsaw
.

I came to the same conclusion yesterday about using a PID.  I built one many years back for brewing beer,  I use an inkbird one on a fridge at the moment as a fermentation chamber.

I've now ordered one from Amazon with a thermocouple, I have an SSR in the garage so I'll knock up a box this week, do you guys pass the thermo through the top air vent??? I don't want to drill the cabinet just yet.


Cheers Ice.


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## Brokenhandle (Nov 1, 2021)

Icefever said:


> Many thanks guys....
> 
> 
> Yes JJ...at the start,  then through most of the day it was swinging 80c/92c, at one point where I didn't want the bacon to cook anymore, that was when I opened the door so that the temp would drop quickly, which it did down to around 70c.
> ...


I drilled a small hole on the side of mine... mine wasn't long enough to go through top. I didn't want my auber sitting on top of my mes as it's not insulated and top gets warm.

Ryan


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## chopsaw (Nov 1, 2021)

Icefever said:


> do you guys pass the thermo through the top air vent??? I don't want to drill the cabinet just yet.


I did mine through the back . Look through this thread . Shows how I did it if you're interested . 





						Auber controller added to my MES 30
					

Well after 5 years of almost constant use , the on / off button was getting worn out . Talked to Tallbm and went with the WS-1510 elmp he recommended .  Brought the 30 into the workshop so I could get at it . The re-wire is really simple , but @tallbm did all the leg work on that . I wanted to...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## Icefever (Nov 1, 2021)

Thanks,  guys you've put my mind to rest, the smoker is not a complete waste of time, .
Waiting now on Amazon bringing the PID,  may find some time tomorrow to start the DIY `bit. 

Ice.


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## tallbm (Nov 1, 2021)

I drop my PID probes through the vent but I made sure I got 6ft+ length probes.

It sounds like you have a good handle on what you are doing if you've built a PID controller before.

The MES you have is physically built very well, that's its strength.
I think Masterbuilt intentionally has the temp swings to ensure wood chips will continue to burn by having longer "on" cycle temp ramp up.

Once you change to a PID you will likely need to also use an A-Maze-N Pellet Smoker (AMNPS) tray or tube with pellets to generate smoke.   This is not an issue as almost all of us use the AMNPS no matter what.  Can't beat it!

I recently built a MyPin PID controller for my brother's smoker.  The project box/enclosure is the worst part by far.  Be sure you get one that is large enough.  I don't think you can go too large but damn it's hard to find a decent box haha.  Best of luck!


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## Icefever (Nov 2, 2021)

tallbm said:


> It sounds like you have a good handle on what you are doing if you've built a PID controller before.


I'm not too bad I can follow a wiring dia....or think it through what should it do and what does it do ...
Why do you still use a maze, why not feed via the cabinet tube?? 

I've got my thinking head-on at the moment,  I would like to be able to use the pid controller on my beer mash/boiler.
I have a Klarstein boiler that has two elements a 1.5Kw & a 3Kw....I'm now thinking about being able when I want to use it with either the smoker or boiler??

Ice.


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## Lonzinomaker (Nov 2, 2021)

They are so cheap, I would build a dedicated one for smoking.  
The PID tune might not be right for a air system vs a liquid system.


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## tallbm (Nov 2, 2021)

Icefever said:


> I'm not too bad I can follow a wiring dia....or think it through what should it do and what does it do ...
> Why do you still use a maze, why not feed via the cabinet tube??
> 
> I've got my thinking head-on at the moment,  I would like to be able to use the pid controller on my beer mash/boiler.
> ...



Yeah I think you will get the wiring down no problem.  After doing 1 and undrestanding it all it's not hard to do additional PIDs.

I use the AMNPS tray because it produces up to 12 hours of perfect Thin Blue Smoke (TBS) with no fooling with it.  I do lots of briskets and a good amount of pork butts.  That means lots of overnight smokes so I just set the AMNPS up in my mailbox mod and have the electric going on the PID and I go to bed.  I have remote thermometers to wake me up if a pellet flame up happens, if the power dies and smoker cools, or when the meat is at a temp for me to check tenderness.

AMNPS tray is awesome!!!  No needing to babysit anything when using it and again perfect smoke!

Here is the thread with the PID I built a couple of months ago for my brother:





						Any MyPin PID Settings for an MES40 out there?
					

Hey everyone.  Over the weekend I built a PID controller using a MyPin PID that is functioning and I have the temp probe calibrated to be accurate (was low 5F degrees).  I'm just wondering if anyone out there uses a MyPin PID on their MES40 and wants to share their PID settings?    This way I...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				




I think you can easily build your PID to work with your smoker or with your beer brewing setup.  You may need to write down both PID settings since heating and response times may be very different.  If you build yours somewhat like the one I did below then you can just get a 2nd beer brewing friendly probe and use it for your beer setup and the other you leave at your smoker for the smoker setup.  I have a k-type socket (yellow rectangle) I put into the back of this one the PID could be disconnected and brought inside at any point.

I also highly suggest cannibalizing a good, inexpensive, outdoor extension cord (6ft, reuse the wiring for inside the PID) so that you have male and female outlets that don't melt down on you like the cheap crappy Chinese plastic components do.  Also it's easier to drill holes into the project box/enclosure than to cut accurate rectangles, so drilling holes and using cord relief grommets and such makes life MUCH easier.  Also get a good switch that wont melt down on you.  An automotive one or marine breaker switches 40amp rated+ should hold up.







This kind of design should do the trick OR as suggested 

 Lonzinomaker
 you can make a 2nd one for your brew setup.
If you have extra parts and supplies then it is cheap if not then you can simply have 2 different temp probes to use (one for smoker, one for brewing) and then write down your different PID settings.


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## Icefever (Nov 3, 2021)

Lonzinomaker said:


> They are so cheap, I would build a dedicated one for smoking.
> The PID tune might not be right for a air system vs a liquid system.


Good point ... will have to think about this.  



tallbm said:


> I just set the AMNPS up in my mailbox mod and have the electric going on the PID and I go to bed. I have remote thermometers to wake me up if a pellet flame up happens, if the power dies and smoker cools, or when the meat is at a temp for me to check tenderness.



Wow...I've never done an all-night smoke,  too many things to go wrong .  
Now I know it can be done I shall be after any info on how to set the PID,  I've started the build got the PID in the box,  not sure which to use the SSR ( I have a couple of them,)  or the PWM that I have???

I remember reading about using a PWM  instead of an SSR is better/safer??? not sure why??



tallbm said:


> If you have extra parts and supplies then it is cheap if not then you can simply have 2 different temp probes to use (one for smoker, one for brewing) and then write down your different PID settings.



I did think about using a k-type socket, but then as you say I'll be changing the settings every couple of days and that could be a PITA...

Ice.


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## tallbm (Nov 3, 2021)

Icefever said:


> Good point ... will have to think about this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know much about PWM but my understanding is they are primarily used to convert control signals into switch signals.
The PID's you are using should have no issue sending signals to an SSR for on/off so the PWM may be overkill for these simple applications. If you had a more complex PID and scenario messing with motors of some type then maybe the PWM would be more useful?

You may still want to use some kind of K-type socket or female connector with your box so that you can disconnect your entire PID unit from the smoker and bring it inside.  
It can be handy for people to remove the PID.  I know a number of guys way up north or in Canada basically put away all their smoking and grilling equipment when winter arrives so I bet they would love to bring the electronics inside to preserve them.


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## Smokin' Em (Nov 10, 2021)

I just bought an Auber Plug-n play PID for my MES 30 and plan on installing it this weekend. Does anyone know if I need to or should keep the original MB controller on the smoker, or can I remove it? Thanks!


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## Ringer (Nov 10, 2021)

Smokin' Em said:


> I just bought an Auber Plug-n play PID for my MES 30 and plan on installing it this weekend. Does anyone know if I need to or should keep the original MB controller on the smoker, or can I remove it? Thanks!


I bypassed my mes because it was toast anyway. The auber is way better at controlling temps.


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## tallbm (Nov 11, 2021)

Smokin' Em said:


> I just bought an Auber Plug-n play PID for my MES 30 and plan on installing it this weekend. Does anyone know if I need to or should keep the original MB controller on the smoker, or can I remove it? Thanks!



You can keep it but not really needed. I've never heard of anyone going to a PID and then having to switch back to the original controller. It does keep holes covered if you leave it on?

Just be sure to do the rewire so the PID will work :)


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## Steve H (Nov 11, 2021)

Icefever said:


> I remember reading about using a PWM instead of an SSR is better/safer??? not sure why??



Either one would work. I've only used them (PWM, PDM) for servo and DC drivers.  I would stick with PID controls for this though.


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## bill ace 350 (Nov 11, 2021)

I'm going to experiment with a hotplate controlled by an inkbird temperature control in mine. if the inkbird keeps a stable temperature with the hotplate, then i will rewire the MES, bypassing the time and temperature controls and use the inkbird in place of the nature controls.


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## chopsaw (Nov 11, 2021)

Smokin' Em said:


> Does anyone know if I need to or should keep the original MB controller on the smoker, or can I remove it?


Go ahead and get rid of it . When  you do the rewire , it's all taken out of the circuit anyway . The wires will just unplug . If you have the meat probe go ahead and remove it completely , and just tuck the other wire into the cabinet . Remove the grommet and the two mounting plates where the wires passed through .  I used that to mount my Auber probe . So save it in case you need it . 
Like this . Then I cut a small piece of 20 ga. metal to cover the holes in the top . 









bill ace 350 said:


> stable temperature with the hotplate,


Bill , let me know how that works . I've wondered about doing that with a Weber kettle .
I know you have an Inkbird , but here's a graph of an Auber on a MES 30 gen 1 . It's great for Summer sausage .


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## bill ace 350 (Nov 11, 2021)

chopsaw said:


> Go ahead and get rid of it . When  you do the rewire , it's all taken out of the circuit anyway . The wires will just unplug . If you have the meat probe go ahead and remove it completely , and just tuck the other wire into the cabinet . Remove the grommet and the two mounting plates where the wires passed through .  I used that to mount my Auber probe . So save it in case you need it .
> Like this . Then I cut a small piece of 20 ga. metal to cover the holes in the top .
> View attachment 515978
> 
> ...


Sure will! Hope the Inkbird works. Don't want to buy the Auber unless I have too.

Saving for next purchase- Upright freezer for a curing  chamber....


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## chopsaw (Nov 11, 2021)

bill ace 350 said:


> Don't want to buy the Auber unless I have too.
> 
> Saving for next purchase- Upright freezer for a curing chamber....


Sounds good . You know the Aubers have a refrigeration mode on them too .


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## Steve H (Nov 11, 2021)

Give it a try. The only concern I'd have would be the burner enclosure not holding up to the temp.


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## tallbm (Nov 11, 2021)

bill ace 350 said:


> Sure will! Hope the Inkbird works. Don't want to buy the Auber unless I have too.
> 
> Saving for next purchase- Upright freezer for a curing  chamber....


Also know that many hot plates have a safety temp cut off so if you are running it higher or trying to hit a certain temp that built in cut off may throw you for some loops and might make you think your controller is failing you when it is actually the safety switch in the hotplate.

An inkbird pid should be fine as lon gas it supports the load and the application of what we are doing. I built a MyPIN pid for my brother a few months back.  Chose it over Inkbird for greater simplicity and better user usability.    Let us know how it goes :)


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## zwiller (Nov 11, 2021)

You PID guys still get stalls for hot smoked stuff like butts or does the precision really help?  I want SPEED!    

Was thinking DIY but decided on Auber BUT presumed it was somewhat weather resistant...  Mmmm.


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## bill ace 350 (Nov 11, 2021)

Steve H said:


> Give it a try. The only concern I'd have would be the burner enclosure not holding up to the temp.


shouldn't be an issue.  used them before in a smoker no issue.
since i will use them at temps <170, i should be good.


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## Steve H (Nov 11, 2021)

bill ace 350 said:


> shouldn't be an issue.  used them before in a smoker no issue.
> since i will use them at temps <170, i should be good.



Ok, I think this will work fine. Let us know!


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## bill ace 350 (Nov 11, 2021)

Steve H said:


> Ok, I think this will work fine. Let us know!


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## bill ace 350 (Nov 11, 2021)

2 Proctor Silex plates...


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## chopsaw (Nov 11, 2021)

bill ace 350 said:


> 2 Proctor Silex plates...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like that .


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## Steve H (Nov 11, 2021)

Now I like that set up Bill!


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## chopsaw (Nov 11, 2021)

zwiller said:


> You PID guys still get stalls for hot smoked stuff like butts or does the precision really help? I want SPEED!


You're still going to get the stall , but it will get from start to finish faster because of the constant temp .


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