# PID for MES



## smokinpreacher (Feb 19, 2016)

I have had 30 inch mes for many years, it finally bit dust, bought new old style stainless 40 inch for Christmas, it bit dust after 3rd smoke, and Masterbuilt sent me new generation 40 inch, not happy but it is what I got.  I had to cut power cord and remove data plate from old style 40 so they would send me new one, I want to rebuild it, any suggestion on a pid and how to set it up


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## bauchjw (Feb 19, 2016)

sorry?..


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## old sarge (Feb 20, 2016)

You might try an Auber.  But they cost as much as your smoker. Try using the search bar at the top for PID.


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## cmayna (Feb 24, 2016)

I have two Aubers which are shared amongst 3 electric smokers.  The most recent is an Auber 1500 running my MES40 Gen 1 smoker. If you have a similar smoker, you need to open the small panel off the back, disconnect the wires from the legs of the heating element.

You then need to get a 6' or so 14ga extension cord, cut off the female end and crimp some steel  high heat resistant female spade terminals to the black and white wires.  Connect a ground eyelet to the green wire.   The green wire gets grounded somewhere to the chassis of the smoker and the black and white wires connect to the heating element.

Oh and before you go too far you will need to drill a good size hole in the middle of the small cover plate you removed to allow the extension cord to pass through.

Plug the male end of the new power cord into the back of the auber and follow their instructions.

The above is just a quick glimpse of what typically needs to be done.  Each situation can and probably will be a little different.


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## front sight (Feb 26, 2016)

cmayna, which Auber 1500 do you have?  There are four models WS-1500ES, WS-1500EPM, WS-1500EB, WSD-1500GPH. Been wanting to get one but backing off due to installation, but if it's that easy as you explained I will get one as soon as I found out which one different members have. Thanks


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## JckDanls 07 (Feb 26, 2016)

Actually...  I think you would like the 1500GPH the best..  it has the dual probes..  one for smoker..  one for meat..  sure it's a little bit more money..  but well worth it...

Myself..  I have the SYL-2352P..  it's not a plug and play unit (had to build the complete controller)...  after buying all the parts needed it came out to be pretty close to the price of the 1500GPH...  and it's only a single probe... ...  I use it in a smokehouse and use the ramp feature (ramp temps up over a period of time) to do my sausage and snack sticks...


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## cmayna (Feb 26, 2016)

Front Sight said:


> cmayna, which Auber 1500 do you have?  There are four models WS-1500ES, WS-1500EPM, WS-1500EB, WSD-1500GPH. Been wanting to get one but backing off due to installation, but if it's that easy as you explained I will get one as soon as I found out which one different members have. Thanks


The 1500 I have is the 1500ELPM according to the sticker on the bottom of the unit.   Who knows what that mean?


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## muddydogs (Jan 9, 2018)

Old post I know but I wanted to ask Old Goat how he liked the 1500ELPM controller as I have been thinking about it. Also any problem with high temps due to not having the smokers thermal cut off in use? I have read info on wiring the controller up like you suggested then other posts about wiring the controller different and more involved to keep the thermal cut off in the loop, wondering if its a big deal to have the thermal cut off there as the PID is supposed to keep a good handle on temps.


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## tallbm (Jan 9, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> Old post I know but I wanted to ask Old Goat how he liked the 1500ELPM controller as I have been thinking about it. Also any problem with high temps due to not having the smokers thermal cut off in use? I have read info on wiring the controller up like you suggested then other posts about wiring the controller different and more involved to keep the thermal cut off in the loop, wondering if its a big deal to have the thermal cut off there as the PID is supposed to keep a good handle on temps.



The benefit of the thermal cut off is just in case something fails like the SSR switch shorts and gets stuck in the on position. 
Another more common situation would be where someone accidentally forgets to put the PID/Smoker probe into the smoker and turns everything on.  In this case the probe is reading the temperature OUTSIDE the smoker so it is never going up and the PID is just running juice to the element non-stop.  This would be bad lol.

It's just a safety measure that is a good idea to have in place BUT it is possible and easier to bypass also making it easier to encounter a catostropic fail.  It's just up to your preferences :)


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## ritchiep (Jan 9, 2018)

tallbm said:


> The benefit of the thermal cut off is just in case something fails like the SSR switch shorts and gets stuck in the on position.
> Another more common situation would be where someone accidentally forgets to put the PID/Smoker probe into the smoker and turns everything on.  In this case the probe is reading the temperature OUTSIDE the smoker so it is never going up and the PID is just running juice to the element non-stop.  This would be bad lol.
> 
> It's just a safety measure that is a good idea to have in place BUT it is possible and easier to bypass also making it easier to encounter a catostropic fail.  It's just up to your preferences :)


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## ritchiep (Jan 9, 2018)

"Santa" brought me an Auber WS-1510 ELPM for Christmas for my MES 30 Gen (1). Over the past (3) years, it worked sporadically with the factory controller; sometimes flawless, most of the time with rapid clicks, even with unplugging/plugging the power cord. *A big thank you to tallbm for his highly informative thread on a rewire and STILL keeping the snap disk inline.   https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/ * .Have not used the "Autotune" feature, yet, on the Auber, since it is +/- (1)or(2) degrees from the set point, right out of the box. Hope this helps,
                                                               Ritchie


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## muddydogs (Jan 9, 2018)

ritchiep said:


> "Santa" brought me an Auber WS-1510 ELPM for Christmas for my MES 30 Gen (1). Over the past (3) years, it worked sporadically with the factory controller; sometimes flawless, most of the time with rapid clicks, even with unplugging/plugging the power cord. *A big thank you to tallbm for his highly informative thread on a rewire and STILL keeping the snap disk inline.   https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/ * .Have not used the "Autotune" feature, yet, on the Auber, since it is +/- (1)or(2) degrees from the set point, right out of the box. Hope this helps, Ritchie



Thanks for reposting tallbm's post as I have not seen this post. I will have to see if the MES 40 gen 2 looks anything like what tallbm posted for pic's as this would be the way to do the rewire for sure.


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## ritchiep (Jan 9, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> Thanks for reposting tallbm's post as I have not seen this post. I will have to see if the MES 40 gen 2 looks anything like what tallbm posted for pic's as this would be the way to do the rewire for sure.


The (4) main wires he shows are basically  in the same location as depicted, regardless....just disregard small wires surrounding them


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## dward51 (Jan 9, 2018)

X2 on the Auber 1500 or 1510 (I think that's the current model).  I've been running one for a couple of years on my e-WSM mod and most recently on my MES Custom SS mod.   The Auber PID (an all-in-one box controller with SSR included) is pretty much rock solid bullet proof.


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## dr k (Jan 9, 2018)

I plan on getting the WS-1510ELPM to use as a sou vide controller for my analog crockpot and a controller for when my Mes fails.  Has anyone found a coupon code to apply at checkout?  And what ambient temps does this PID operate in for outdoor use for the Mes.


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## dward51 (Jan 9, 2018)

Auber also makes Sous Vide specific controllers.  Their ECT-100A is on sale for $49.95 right now.  It's rated for 10 amps at 120v, so depending on your crock pot wattage it should work.   A MES with at 1,200 watt element is right at the rated threshhold, so I would not use that for a MES with a 1,200 watt element though.  The WS-1510 can handle 1,500 watts but it's $149.

I have the older version, the WS-1500.  It works fine 365 days a year and I have used it in 15* weather.  I have it under a covered porch so rain/snow is not an issue for me, but the cold air temps have not been an issue, nor have 103* summer heat days in the 100% humidity of Georgia.


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## muddydogs (Jan 9, 2018)

ritchiep said:


> The (4) main wires he shows are basically  in the same location as depicted, regardless....just disregard small wires surrounding them



I felt under my unit this evening and it does have a panel on the bottom secured by philips head screws. Once the PID gets here I'l flip it over and see whats what with the wires.


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## tallbm (Jan 9, 2018)

ritchiep said:


> "Santa" brought me an Auber WS-1510 ELPM for Christmas for my MES 30 Gen (1). Over the past (3) years, it worked sporadically with the factory controller; sometimes flawless, most of the time with rapid clicks, even with unplugging/plugging the power cord. *A big thank you to tallbm for his highly informative thread on a rewire and STILL keeping the snap disk inline.   https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/ * .Have not used the "Autotune" feature, yet, on the Auber, since it is +/- (1)or(2) degrees from the set point, right out of the box. Hope this helps,
> Ritchie


I'm glad the post could help.  That is the exact reason why I made it.  I had to piece a bunch of separate posts and info together to do my rewires so I figured one all inclusive post would help some folks :)




muddydogs said:


> Thanks for reposting tallbm's post as I have not seen this post. I will have to see if the MES 40 gen 2 looks anything like what tallbm posted for pic's as this would be the way to do the rewire for sure.


I have rewired a Gen 2 and Gen 1 for PID controllers so it should work 99% the same way the post points out, with maybe some slightly different looking electronic boards. :)



ritchiep said:


> The (4) main wires he shows are basically  in the same location as depicted, regardless....just disregard small wires surrounding them


Yep that is correct :)


Also guys I would highly recommend you get your hands on some hi temp stainless steel female spade connectors to replace the crappy ones that Masterbuilt uses.  One of the following should work:

or the following which has a sideways barrel to crimp the wire in similar to the picture above not a clamp flap clip thing like the picture claims

Also it would be a good idea to cut and make a panel to access the Safety Rollout Limit switch.  The same crappy connectors are used on it and seem to be the other major connector failure point.
Replacement stock limit switches are the following, I suggest a 5 pack because they are fragile and can be damaged when putting connectors on the tabs:

[EDIT: I posted the correct link to the 302F limit switch, the old link was to a 194F or something stupidly low :) ]

I personally use a 350F manual reset safety rollout limit switch so I can do poultry cooks at 325F so the skin is edible.  The MES is really not designed for the insulation to go way over 275F so I only do it for my short poultry cooks/smokes.  I don't go over 275F otherwise.  Follow my/this behavior at your own risk :)


You will fall in love with the PID behavior.  I hope all this info helps :)


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## johnnyb54 (Jan 10, 2018)

smokinpreacher said:


> I have had 30 inch mes for many years, it finally bit dust, bought new old style stainless 40 inch for Christmas, it bit dust after 3rd smoke, and Masterbuilt sent me new generation 40 inch, not happy but it is what I got.  I had to cut power cord and remove data plate from old style 40 so they would send me new one, I want to rebuild it, any suggestion on a pid and how to set it up


Smokinpreacher, here is the PID conversion I did to my 2nd gen. Mastebuilt. Any questions please ask.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...r-masterbuilt-hybrid-the-frankenbuilt.260975/


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## muddydogs (Jan 10, 2018)

Also it would be a good idea to cut and make a panel to access the Safety Rollout Limit switch.  The same crappy connectors are used on it and seem to be the other major connector failure point.
Replacement stock limit switches are the following, I suggest a 5 pack because they are fragile and can be damaged when putting connectors on the tabs:
[/QUOTE]

Question on the above switch, do they cut of at 194 degrees? Not sure I'm understanding the nomenclature right on the switches but from what I gather they would shut the power off at 194?

I'm thinking we would want something more like this that shuts off at 135 C / 300 F.


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## tallbm (Jan 10, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> Also it would be a good idea to cut and make a panel to access the Safety Rollout Limit switch.  The same crappy connectors are used on it and seem to be the other major connector failure point.
> Replacement stock limit switches are the following, I suggest a 5 pack because they are fragile and can be damaged when putting connectors on the tabs:
> Question on the above switch, do they cut of at 194 degrees? Not sure I'm understanding the nomenclature right on the switches but from what I gather they would shut the power off at 194?
> 
> I'm thinking we would want something more like this that shuts off at 135 C / 300 F.



OOPS!:oops:

This is the one that goes to 302F. 

Thanks for letting me know I posted the wrong temp level roll out limit switch.  I'll correct it in my previous posts so bad info isn't sitting out there in the world :)


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## muddydogs (Jan 12, 2018)

Thanks for the posts and help on this PID deal. My Auber WS-1510 showed up today so I put the MES on its side and rewired it. My newer Gen 2 unit has screws on all the access panels so that made it easy to get into everything. Of course my wires and controller are different then what has been pictured but I had enough info to figure out what wires were what. I ended up taking out the control board and plastic box it was in and just tucking the wires back in the hole under the access panel. I did find the white wire off the plug in cord was just hanging on the male spade connector and not seated tight from the factory.

Quick pic of the bottom of my smoker.


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## tallbm (Jan 12, 2018)

Looks like this modification helped you find a defect in the stock wiring.  See the PID approach is already paying off :)
I'm glad you got rewired.  I hope it all turns out well :)


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## dr k (Jan 13, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> Thanks for the posts and help on this PID deal. My Auber WS-1510 showed up today so I put the MES on its side and rewired it. My newer Gen 2 unit has screws on all the access panels so that made it easy to get into everything. Of course my wires and controller are different then what has been pictured but I had enough info to figure out what wires were what. I ended up taking out the control board and plastic box it was in and just tucking the wires back in the hole under the access panel. I did find the white wire off the plug in cord was just hanging on the male spade connector and not seated tight from the factory.
> 
> Quick pic of the bottom of my smoker.


My WS-1510ELPM will be delivered 1.16.18 and I will do 

 tallbm
 four cut, two splice smoker bypass from the bottom panel when I switch to the PID but for now the Mes controller is fine.  Auberins sent me a chart on manual PID settings for 4 & 7qt. slowcooker, ricecooker etc. settings to turn them into sou vide cookers which I'll test on my 7 qt. crockpot before the smoker. You can do an auto tune or use this chart and compare what you like best.  I'll put this chart in the sou vide forum as well but it is not for the WS-1510ELPM.  To convert to the 1510 divide the P column by ten so the bottom line of the chart says Bradley smoker so to convert to P=7, I=600, D=150. These are the paramenters of the 1510 out of the box.  So for my 7 quart slow cooker the 1510 would be set to P=18, I=700, D=40, for the 4 qt. slowcooker would be P=5, I=60, D=15 etc.  Just remember these cookers need to be analog not digital or have membrane touch controllers.  Only a dial to set to high, med. or warm.  Set it to high unless otherwise stated in the table.


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## dward51 (Jan 13, 2018)

I would just put a pan of water to simulate the meat mass you mostly intend on smoking inside the MES, and then run an "auto tune" cycle on the Auber.   Should be good to go after that.

The table is general guidelines.  The auto tune is specific to your smoker and conditions (ie, meat load).    If a 1 degree heat range mattered for BBQ, then constant adjustment might be important.  But smoking meat is a somewhat forgiving process.  The minor temp swings you might get from a PID that was auto tuned for a load of snack sticks or jerky will not be enough to worry about if running a full smoker of pork butts.  The precision of a PID is so much overkill for this use you basically need to get it running and tuned once for your smoker and "for-gedd-a-bout-it" after that.


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## muddydogs (Jan 13, 2018)

I ran mine doing nothing to the controller first off, had the set temp at 200, PID hit 175 and started its slow cycle deal so I called Auber and they told me were to set the P, I and D settings but said if that doesn't seem to work well then auto tune. Well there settings were still letting the smoker stop 25 degrees short to cycle on and off to get to the temp. I ran auto tune this morning with a pan of water which only took 30 minutes to an hour, not sure exactly as I was rolling a fatty. In a couple hours I'll fire it back up and see how it warms up, once warm it holds the temp within 1 degree.

One elk burger, elk breakfast sausage, green chili, onion and smoked cheese fatty on the menu for dinner.


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## dr k (Jan 13, 2018)

I guess I didn't clarify in my post above, with the PID table, that I will not be using the WS-1510ELPM for a smoker controller yet because the Mes controller is acceptable. The post above is all about awareness for others that invested $150.00 in this PID. That the table is for sou vide with cookers in the table that most have in their home and you can find other applications other than the smoker whether you auto tune or try suggested settings from Auber.


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## cmayna (Jan 13, 2018)

muddydogs,
I love my Auber controller.  Yes, I always use it's probe. since the smoker which the Auber is associated with, is used mainly for fish, I do not use it with high temps.  Highest temp will typically be at around 150*.


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## tallbm (Jan 15, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> I ran mine doing nothing to the controller first off, had the set temp at 200, PID hit 175 and started its slow cycle deal so I called Auber and they told me were to set the P, I and D settings but said if that doesn't seem to work well then auto tune. Well there settings were still letting the smoker stop 25 degrees short to cycle on and off to get to the temp. I ran auto tune this morning with a pan of water which only took 30 minutes to an hour, not sure exactly as I was rolling a fatty. In a couple hours I'll fire it back up and see how it warms up, once warm it holds the temp within 1 degree.
> 
> One elk burger, elk breakfast sausage, green chili, onion and smoked cheese fatty on the menu for dinner.



Word of advice. 
Try keeping your probe on the bottom rack.  Center of the rack on the bottom side of the rack is where I keep mine.  
If you keep it there then you can basically get more consistent readings.
Auto tune with it like that and you should be golden.

Going forward use a dual probe thermometer where 1 probe will then be used to double check your smoker temp at meat level and the other probe will go in the meat.  Doing this will give you the best temp readings for you to understand how your smoker is heading.  THEN you smoke on the bottom rack as much as possible since it is the most well controlled level of the smoker.

Know that you will not get the same temp across all racks in an MES and you won't get the same temps from left to right along a single level of racks.  I think this is just the limitation of the MES design including the element design.

What I have noticed though is that you should CONSISTENTLY get the same ballpark temps in the various levels and positions of your smoker going forward so no more wild temp changes all over.

I have done a few things to try and reduce the temp differences between racks and along a single rack but I have concluded that it is just the nature of the MES design.
My attempts to reduce the temp differences have been to:
1. Install a convection fan to stir the air and help keep it as evenly heated as possible all around the inside of the smoker
2. I made a wooden space reducer shelf.  Basically it's a board of birch wood cut to fit in the MES on top of the rack holder bars.  The idea is to trap heat as much as possible between the heating element and the space under the board.  Hahahah simple and stupid but I believe it has been effective

Anyhow be patient at first and keep playing with it until you get it sorted out.  This is the same kind of tinkering you do with any kind of smoker anyhow and then you get your system and quirks dialed in for amazing bbq :)


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## muddydogs (Jan 15, 2018)

Wasn't that hard to figure out the temp, I removed the slant tray and placed a cookie sheet on the bottom rack or on a rack using the chip loader and slant rack screws for support if I need the height. As for smoking I find and it makes sense that getting the product off the burner further up the smoker will help even out the heat so if I have a small load I place it in the second and third rack, I have 6 racks. Just smoked a fatty today on the third rack position with my PID temp sensor on the back of the rack and 4 temp probes on the rack, each side, front and next to the PID probe and all probes read within a couple degrees of each other. I want to know the temp where my product is not on the bottom rack were its the hottest.

Had the smoker full last weekend with my 6 probes spread out through the smoker and I didn't see any huge temp differences in the smoker, ya maybe 5 or so degrees which matters very little in the grand scheme of things.

To each there own but having smoked for 15 years with a propane smoker has taught me that small temp differences are of little consequence to the grand scheme of things.


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## tallbm (Jan 16, 2018)

It seems that you have it down and are holding good temps all around.  Can't ask for much more :)
The good stuff will be flowing for sure now :)

Next up for me is about 15 pounds of ground Venison Pastrami sandwich meat (done in loaves) and then I'll take about 10 pounds of pure 100% ground Venison (no fat added) and make some jerky.  I can't wait!!! :)


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## muddydogs (Jan 16, 2018)

tallbm said:


> It seems that you have it down and are holding good temps all around.  Can't ask for much more :)
> The good stuff will be flowing for sure now :)
> 
> Next up for me is about 15 pounds of ground Venison Pastrami sandwich meat (done in loaves) and then I'll take about 10 pounds of pure 100% ground Venison (no fat added) and make some jerky.  I can't wait!!! :)



I'd like to see the Pastrami when your done, it sounds good.


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## tallbm (Jan 16, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> I'd like to see the Pastrami when your done, it sounds good.



I'll post a pic of the new batch.  Here are pics and the link to my original post about it all.  Enjoy :)
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/pastrami-loaf-with-qview.263815/













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## muddydogs (Jan 16, 2018)

Well I guess the next batch on antelope snack sticks is going to have to wait as I'm using my last 5 pounds of antelope to make your pastrami loaf. Wasn't looking forward to stuffing the 16mm cases anyway.

I'm going to have to try one change to the recipe and use pork fat since I purchased to much after hunting season and still have 10+ pounds in the freezer. Might be a little porky but we'll see.


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## tallbm (Jan 16, 2018)

muddydogs said:


> Well I guess the next batch on antelope snack sticks is going to have to wait as I'm using my last 5 pounds of antelope to make your pastrami loaf. Wasn't looking forward to stuffing the 16mm cases anyway.
> 
> I'm going to have to try one change to the recipe and use pork fat since I purchased to much after hunting season and still have 10+ pounds in the freezer. Might be a little porky but we'll see.



Awesome, please do report back!  Another tweak you may want to make is to add some binder.  I discovered that after freezing and defrosting, the slices break a little too easily for my liking.  This time around I'm going to add 2% Soy Protein Isolate because I have it on hand.  Many use Non Fat Dry Milk (NDFM), I'm lactose intolerant so I'm avoiding it.

You won't be dissapointed in the seasoning flavor and though you are using pork fat I'm sure it will still taste great just porky as you say rather than a little beefy.  I too have a bit of pork fat I need to use up so I'm eager to see how it comes out :)


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