# Brine



## Carl H. Bernat (Jul 25, 2019)

I am attempting to do my first pastrami. The brine I heated to boil, added cold water and put in fridge for about an hour. I touched the sides of the buckets I was using and they were cold....I then put the meat in and when I put the plates on top to submerge the briskets the brine was slightly warm like luke warm...I left the meat in as I didn’t want to make a mess and got on my phone to research what to do. The meat was in there for about 20-30 minutes and I threw ice cubes in and it cooled it to fridge temp I covered and put back in....should these two five pound briskets be fine?


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## kit s (Jul 25, 2019)

Well probably ok, though others may not agree. In my opinion you did a few things done wrong. 
One  the brine (liquid) is made combining the weight of the meat , the spices and liquid, to get ratios for solution. See http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html for easy way to determine cure ration and salt ratio. Probably no sugar for pastrami.
Second as it has been brought out here  smoking meats forum, cure degrades at warmer temperatures. Should have let brine solution cool until cold, usually 12 to 24 hours. When you added extra water and ice you diluted it. Might be best to pull meat chuck solution and do a new solution. Then add meat.
kit


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## Carl H. Bernat (Jul 25, 2019)

kit s said:


> Well probably ok, though others may not agree. In my opinion you did a few things done wrong.
> One  the brine (liquid) is made combining the weight of the meat , the spices and liquid, to get ratios for solution. See http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html for easy way to determine cure ration and salt ratio. Probably no sugar for pastrami.
> Second as it has been brought out here  smoking meats forum, cure degrades at warmer temperatures. Should have let brine solution cool until cold, usually 12 to 24 hours. When you added extra water and ice you diluted it. Might be best to pull meat chuck solution and do a new solution. Then add meat.
> kit


I appreciate the reply. So I followed a recipe online that calculated all the proper amounts of salt spices water etc. so I put in 10 pounds of brisket and it calculates it all. It called for 11.5 quarts of water and 3.5 of it was cold in a pale I boiled the rest with all the spices salt etc then combined for quicker cooling. So ratios are correct. I was just concerned about the temp of the brine till I put the ice in....from what I read online it should be ok as the salts in the brine prevent micro bacteria anyway. Thoughts?


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## PolishDeli (Jul 25, 2019)

How much cure did you use?
What type of cure did use?
How much water weight did you add in the form of ice cubes?

Which calculator did you use? The diggingdogfarm calculator gives correct number for dry cures.  Not wet cures. 

Since you (1) sterilized the water by boiling it and (2) added salt and sodium nitrite (right?), you should be pathogen safe over the course of 30min at ~room temp.


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## Carl H. Bernat (Jul 25, 2019)

https://toriavey.com/toris-kitchen/homemade-pastrami/

I followed this exactly. And only
Added about 7-10 small ice cubes


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## chopsaw (Jul 25, 2019)

Don't boil with the cure in the brine . Add the cure after it cools down .


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## Carl H. Bernat (Jul 25, 2019)

chopsaw said:


> Don't boil with the cure in the brine . Add the cure after it cools down .


Too late now that is what the recipe Called for...if you have a good recipe send over also a calculator?


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## chopsaw (Jul 25, 2019)

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/eye-of-round-pastrami-mucho-q-view.242696/
This uses eye round , but follow his brine . I've used it . Works great .


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## kit s (Jul 25, 2019)

PolishDeli said:


> How much cure did you use?
> What type of cure did use?
> How much water weight did you add in the form of ice cubes?
> 
> ...


Actually Polish you can use it for a wet brine also, just have to add all the weights together before using...so where it says weight of meat you put total weight of all ingredients and it will give you rest (salt sugar, and cure) in the proper ratio to that weight.


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## dr k (Jul 26, 2019)

kit s said:


> Actually Polish you can use it for a wet brine also, just have to add all the weights together before using...so where it says weight of meat you put total weight of all ingredients and it will give you rest (salt sugar, and cure) in the proper ratio to that weight.


Add the weight of the water it takes to cover the meat to the weight of the meat and put in digging dog farms caculator to give you the amount of cure, salt and sugar to add.


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## kit s (Jul 26, 2019)

Exactly dr k


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## PolishDeli (Jul 26, 2019)

Carl,
That recipe looks mostly ok.  Lots of sugar though.
You should be ok having boiled the cure.  Boiling does not affect nitrite levels.  It only affects nitrate levels (at least in the case of vegetables:  doi:10.1016/j.jfca.2008.10.025).  Your recipe uses sodium nitrite (Cure#1).

My calculator is attached (excel file).  It can be used to calculate  wet cures (pick-up or equilibrium), dry cures, it auto converts units, and can be used to calculate temperature dependent salinity.


kit & k,
I agree that the diggingdogfarm calculator will give the correct cure#1 levels for wet – equilibrium – curing.  This is because the math for equilibrium curing reduces to the dry cure equation when the water weight goes to 0.

However, the recipe being used by the OP seems to be calculating cure levels according to the pick-up equation.  The equations for dry and pick-up curing do not converge at 0 water.  Also, salt levels are calculated differently for dry vs wet brines.


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## smokinbill1638 (Jul 26, 2019)

I have a simple salt brine i use for my chicken and pork.  I normally make about a gallon at a time before i need it so i can just use what i need.   I keep it in a fridge.   I also have it calculated with ice cubes to bring the temp down and then i temp with a thermapen before adding meat.  It's probably overkill safe but I'm not near as experienced or knowledgeable as others here.   It's safe though.


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