# Home made BBQ sauce,why use ketchup?



## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

why does every BBQ sauce I find, the main ingredient is ketchup.Can a BBQ sauce be made with out using ketchup,if so does anyone have a recipe that they would like to share


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## bhawkins (Dec 18, 2012)

I have wanted to know the same thing! I have a recipe that uses a lot of ketchup. Was told it's not a BBQ sauce but a great steak sauce! I haven't posted much, been to busy reading! Lot of info to sort through!


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## goinforbroke (Dec 18, 2012)

It's a good thickening agent in my experience.  And if you ask me, every bbq sauce is deserving of some tomato aspect to balance out the flavors of bitter, sweet, sour, salty... I even put Korean fermented black bean paste in mine, though you'd never know it was there.  for the fifth taste, umami.  Dale's marinade works here too, due to the Soy base.


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

I know what you mean I'm the same way.what ever spikes my interest at that time I'll try to find as much info on it as I can


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## goinforbroke (Dec 18, 2012)

I've also made sauces (finishing) without ketchup and it ultimately becomes a vinegar-fest.   Something needs to balance the vinegar and all it's tartness.  Besides sugar.


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## fagesbp (Dec 18, 2012)

Last year I made a diabetic friendly sauce using tomato sauce and coke zero instead of ketchup. It came out great and you'd never know. The ketchup is pretty much just taking the shortcut of cooking the tomato sauce down with sugar.


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

dose using tomato sauce give a different taste.this summer I will add some past tomatoes to my family's garden plans for next year.I plane to use them to make tomato sauce


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## dewetha (Dec 18, 2012)

i started out with the notion of going with organic tomato paste and add in spices. i actually have "Ketchup" spice from Spice barn.i was doing that for a while but one day i needed to make a sauce and didn't have the supplies so i used ketchup. since it tasted good i kept using it. It take a lot of time to get sauces just right and ketchup seams to be a very good shortcut to a solid base.


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## dirtsailor2003 (Dec 18, 2012)

I think a lot of it comes down to marketing and ease. Heinz had one of the first published BBQ sauce recipes. Guess what the number one ingredient was! 

Most people don't want to take the time to process the raw tomatoes to create the sauce. It really isn't all that bad, especially if you do a bunch of canning and make tomato sauce and paste anyways.Since ketchup is mainly vinegar, salt ,sugar and spices you will need to add more of these. One nice thing is you wont have all the preservatives! With that said your bottle of sauce can't sit around in the fridge for half a year. If you plan on storing it you will need to can it. We can ours per the guidelines from the National Center for Home Food Preservation.


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## jarjarchef (Dec 18, 2012)

It is a short cut that has become comon practice........

As mentioned earlier it takes time to cook tomatoes down and develop flavors. People don't want to take the time.........


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

with my experience in cooking when you take time to cook things down they develop a much deeper flavor.So if I can find a recipe that doesn't use ketchup I will give it a try and I will let you guys know how it comes out


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## jarjarchef (Dec 18, 2012)

I have several recipes at work on file. I will look to see if I have one for you to start with. What style of sauce are you wanting? Sweet, spicy, tangy, thick, thin.........


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

If you don't mind I would like to try them all, they all sound great thanks a lot


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## jarjarchef (Dec 18, 2012)

I'll see what I can find for you..... 

One of the things I did was search the net and see what was out there and then play with them. Most of what I found were bogus and needed help in my opinion. I had a function to host where the guest had to make a different BBQ sauce. we gave them copies of the recipes without amounts and asked them to recreate or improve what they had in front of them. Had some interesting results. I'll see if I have those and send your way.


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## so ms smoker (Dec 18, 2012)

SoFlaQuer  has a nice mustard sauce that I need to make again. Then there are the North Carolina vinegar based sauces you might want to try.

  Mike


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm the person that doesn't mind talking a lot of time to cook or make some thing.To me the things you make at home are the best.I am becoming a more self reliant person the more I learn about making things from scratch the more knowledge I gain.I know that sound crazy to people in this day in age,when you can go to the store buy it.


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## jerseydrew (Dec 18, 2012)

i've always thought the same. i may try some tomato paste and try reducing it with water till i get a consistency i like.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 18, 2012)

There are a ton of Ketchup recipes online. Pick one you like and go from there adding the BBQ Sauce ingredients you like. The more Tomato Paste the recipe has the less time simmering to reduce it there will be...JJ


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

I make a great BBQ sauce use ketchup I just wanted to try using tomato sauce


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## linguica (Dec 18, 2012)

If you try this ketchup recipe you will never use store bought again.   

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/128896/ketchup-recipe

I substitute agave syrup for the corn syrup and splenda cup to a cup sugar replacement for the sugar to make a low glycemic  version.

It makes an excellent BBQ sauce base


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## atcnick (Dec 18, 2012)

Google Roxy's BBQ sauce.  It's mustard based and excellent on pulled pork


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## linguica (Dec 18, 2012)

atcnick said:


> Google Roxy's BBQ sauce. It's mustard based and excellent on pulled pork


http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1359


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

thanks alot  were you pleased with this recipe and does it beat store bought ketchup


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## linguica (Dec 18, 2012)

smoking shawn86 said:


> thanks alot  were you pleased with this recipe and does it beat store bought ketchup


In a word YES. I have given away low glycmic versions of the ketchup and every one loved it. I now have several requests for more.

The ketchup by itself tastes like a plain BBQ sauce. It only takes 20 minute to whip up a batch.


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## garand555 (Dec 18, 2012)

I have a friend who is allergic to tomatoes.  He can (and does) eat BBQ sauce, but it'll make his throat scratchy and irritated.  I decided to make a sauce that he could eat without this problem.  It's base is blackberries and NM red chile.  I use honey for a sweetener and I like to use apple cider or raspberry vinegar to give it a nice tang.  I prefer that now over the tomato based ones.


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 18, 2012)

There are a lot of bbq sauces that aren't ketchup based, mustard sauces, vinegar sauces, white sauces, pepper sauces, apricot or peach or berry or other fruit sauces.....I used to make a cranberry based bbq sauce.

~Martin


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 18, 2012)

those are all new to me.I heard of mustard,vinegar even white sauce,but that one throws me off since it uses mayonnaise.I don't know about the fruit ones but I'll try only thing once.


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 18, 2012)

Well, tomatoes are a fruit, so it's not exactly uncommon. LOL  :biggrin:


~Martin


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## schaydu (Dec 19, 2012)

jarjarchef said:


> I'll see what I can find for you.....
> One of the things I did was search the net and see what was out there and then play with them. Most of what I found were bogus and needed help in my opinion. I had a function to host where the guest had to make a different BBQ sauce. we gave them copies of the recipes without amounts and asked them to recreate or improve what they had in front of them. Had some interesting results. I'll see if I have those and send your way.


I have a weird dislike for ketchup and I cringe when i think about using it in a sauce, so if you dont mind could you post some of your ideas in the thread? Thanks in advance.


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 19, 2012)

Well aren't you a funny one, I don't see how you can call them fruit

and for schaydu have you ever had ketchup based BBQ sauce it tastes nothing like ketchup.I don't know for sher but maybe the big commercial brands use ketchup as their base.


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## smoking b (Dec 19, 2012)

smoking shawn86 said:


> Well aren't you a funny one, I don't see how you can call them fruit


.

Botanically a tomato is a fruit - the ovary, together with its seeds, of a flowering plant.


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 19, 2012)

smoking shawn86 said:


> I don't see how you can call them fruit.



Sure they are, they meet the technical definition, they're a seed-bearing ovary.



~Martin


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## jarjarchef (Dec 19, 2012)

Here are a few to start with. These are some that were collected from other Team members as well. Most work real well, some need a little personal adjustment here and there....

*Berry Barbeque Sauce*

1 c              Fresh Blackberries (Frozen can be used in place.)

3 ea            Garlic Cloves Peeled

2 tsp           Red Wine Vinegar

¼ c             Brown Sugar

2 Tbl          Corn Syrup

½ c             Tomato Sauce

Pinch         Red Pepper Flakes

¾ tsp          Paprika (Smoked gives a nice flavor if you have it.)

¾ tsp          Salt

¼ tsp          Ground Black Pepper

½ c             Apple Juice

1 ½ tsp       Unsalted Butter (optional)

*Instructions:*

Puree all ingredients, except the butter, in a food processor. Transfer to a sauce pan and simmer 20 minutes or until sauce is thickened slightly. If desired whisk in the whole butter for a richer flavor. Cool and store in a cover jar in refrigerator for up to one month.

*Honey Citrus BBQ Sauce*

¼ c             Orange Juice

¼ c             Soy Sauce

¼ c             Dijon Mustard

¼ c             Tomato Sauce

½ c             Honey

1 ea            Finely chopped Shallot

1Tbl           Finely chopped cilantro

1 Tbl          Finely chopped garlic

1 Tbl          Lemon Juice

1 Tbl          Lime Juice

*Instruction:*

Mix all ingredients in a large sauce pan and simmer 10 minutes stirring frequently. Serve warm or cold

Yield 1 ½ Cups

*Maple Chipotle BBQ Sauce*

1 ½ c           Ketchup

3 Tbl          Apple cider vinegar

¾ c             Maple syrup

1 Tbl          Worcestershire sauce

1 tsp           Salt

2 tsp           Dry mustard

2 tsp           Chipotle peppers with ancho sauce

2 tsp           Paprika

1 tsp           Onion powder

½ tsp          Garlic powder

¼ tsp          Celery seed

 *Instructions:*

Place all ingredients in a sauce pan and simmer 15 minutes

stirring frequently. Serve warm or cold. Can be stored covered in a refrigerator for up to 2 weeks.

Yield: 2 Cups 

*Brown Sugar Barbecue Sauce*

1 ½ c          Tomato sauce

         2/3 c            Packed brown sugar

         3 Tbl           Cider vinegar

         1 ½ Tbl       Molasses

         1 Tbl           Worcestershire sauce

         1 tsp            Salt

         2 tsp            Dry Mustard

2 tsp           Chili powder

2 tsp           Paprika

1 tsp           Onion powder

2 tsp           Mesquite seasoning

½ tsp          Garlic powder

¼ tsp          Celery seeds

¼ tsp          Ground cloves

¼ tsp          Red pepper flakes

1 ea            6 oz Can Tomato Paste

½ c             Apple juice

*Instructions:*

Combine all ingredients together in a sauce pan over medium-high heat. Bring to a simmer. Lower temp to medium low and simmer 15 minutes, stirring frequently. Cool and store in a cover jar in refrigerator for up to one month.

Yield: 3 cups

Jack Barbaque Sauce *Portion Size* *Yield:*1.25 Cups*Batches Needed*1        *Ingredient* *Preparation* *Amount**UM**Batch Size*      Jack Daniel's 0.25CUP*0.3* Soy Sauce 0.25CUP*0.3* Dijon Mustard 0.25CUP*0.3* Ketchup 0.25CUP*0.3* Brown SugarFirmly packed0.25CUP*0.3* ScallionsFine Chopped3EA*3.0* Fresh Rosemary LeavesFine Chopped1TBL*1.0* GarlicFine Chopped2TBL*2.0*       *Directions:* Mix all ingredients in a sauce pan and simmer for 10 min. Serve warm or cold.   


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 19, 2012)

Hey thanks,they sound great which one is your favorite


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 19, 2012)

what other veggies are considered fruit?


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 19, 2012)

Squash, Peppers, Green Beans, Cucumber, Pumpkin, Okra..........




~Martin


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## garand555 (Dec 19, 2012)

smoking shawn86 said:


> what other veggies are considered fruit?



In general, if it has seeds, it is a fruit, though this is not 100% true.  Seedless grapes, for example, are still a fruit, but I suspect that there have been many, many years of selective breeding to get the seedless varieties.  Obviously, what makes a fruit a fruit is more complex than "it has seeds," but that's a good place to start.  A lot of food things are not classified in a nice orderly scientific fashion due to simple tradition.  Many people don't know that peanuts aren't actually nuts!


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## linguica (Dec 19, 2012)

smoking shawn86 said:


> Hey thanks,they sound great which one is your favorite


Try the berry sauce with pork. I am sure that you will like it. Almost any fruit can be used in place of the berries. I have used half apricots and half pineapple and liked it. Pork is a "fruit friendly" meat.


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## pellet (Dec 19, 2012)

I have made sauce with heinz 57 steak sauce and the Honey heinz 57 is good also. They used to call it ketsup with a kick but  I ve never thought of it as ketsup but I have used it in making sauce and maybe add it to a commercial sauce of choice to start a creation, I have made the Jack Daniels dipping sauce that is featured at TGIF's and you can get the knock off recipie from TGIF's site.  I have added a little more brown sugar to make more of a bbq sauce for mopping on ribs and chicken the last 15 or so minutes of a smoke. I guess what I might suggest is if it calls for ketsup, try to substitute the heinz in its place.


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## jarjarchef (Dec 19, 2012)

They are all pretty good. They kind of serve different  purposes........

Berry - pork and chicken
Honey citrus - pork, chicken and shrimp/lobster
Maple chipotle - pork, chicken, shellfish and beef
Brown sugar - all purpose generic
Jack - glaze for ribs, chicken and steaks/ brisket


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## mvincent42 (Dec 19, 2012)

Remember...knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit...wisdom is not using it in fruit salad!

I use condensed tomato soup as my base in my bbq sauce along with butter, onions, garlic, red peppers, mustard, brown sugar, honey, maple syrup, warchestershire sauce, and chipotle chilis. I have it written down somewhere and will post it if anyone is interested. I like it because it starts thin which is great for pulled pork or to mop with, or I can thicken it slightly for a glaze or a lot for a thick sauce. The flavor starts sweet and finishes with a bit of a kick depending on how much chipotle chili you put in it. Using up the last of what I made before I had a smoker, so can't wait to make another batch and add some smoke for a couple hours.


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 19, 2012)

I found this great web site it has the history of BBQ sauces,and the regions where those sauces come from,on there I found this sauce that is made with pureed bell peppers.

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/BBQ_sauces/index.html


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 19, 2012)

I would be interested in it


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## okiedave (Dec 19, 2012)

The question of whether tomatoes are fruit or veggies has actually been decided by the Supreme Court.  No, I am not kidding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nix_v._Hedden

Now, you may be asking yourselves why the Supreme Court would take up such a humble topic.  The answer--as with many cases--is taxation.  Vegetables were subject to import taxes; fruits were not.  The High Court opted to tax tomatoes.


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## garand555 (Dec 19, 2012)

OkieDave said:


> The question of whether tomatoes are fruit or veggies has actually been decided by the Supreme Court.  No, I am not kidding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nix_v._Hedden
> 
> Now, you may be asking yourselves why the Supreme Court would take up such a humble topic.  The answer--as with many cases--is taxation.  Vegetables were subject to import taxes; fruits were not.  The High Court opted to tax tomatoes.



LOL, you gotta love decisions like that.  One very important thing to remember in law can be illustrated by the following:



> These definitions have no tendency to show that tomatoes are 'fruit,' as distinguished from 'vegetables,' in common speech, or *within the meaning of the tariff act.*"



Lawyers can quibble over definitions like you wouldn't believe and a lot of laws actually do have a section with definitions stating exactly how terms are to be defined for the purposes of that law, even (or especially) when the law is using one out of multiple possible definitions or is using a narrower than possible definition.  It can be maddening for non-lawyers.


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## okiedave (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh, I assure you, I believe it.  I'm a law student, and I've used the skill to very good effect.


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## rosiepug (Dec 19, 2012)

I just went to the comment w/o reading all. Every region in the BBq belt has their own sauce. Tomatoe is top base, but you can have sweet, tangy, hot. You can find mustard base sauces, vinegar w/ red chili flakes. Big Bob Giibson in Alabama makes a mayo base sauce. You can mix up what ever base that YOU like.. 
Years ago I bought a book "The Ultimate Barbecue Sauce Cookbook " authors Jim Auchmuley & Susan Pucket. It is a very good book!!! Happy Saucing, Try differnt sauces with smoked meats!!:yahoo:


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## rosiepug (Dec 19, 2012)

I just went to the comment w/o reading all. Every region in the BBq belt has their own sauce. Tomatoe is top base, but you can have sweet, tangy, hot. You can find mustard base sauces, vinegar w/ red chili flakes. Big Bob Giibson in Alabama makes a mayo base sauce. You can mix up what ever base that YOU like.. 
Years ago I bought a book "The Ultimate Barbecue Sauce Cookbook " authors Jim Auchmuley & Susan Pucket. It is a very good book!!! Happy Saucing, Try differnt sauces with smoked meats!!:yahoo:


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## thsmormonsmokes (Dec 19, 2012)

OkieDave said:


> Oh, I assure you, I believe it.  I'm a law student, and I've used the skill to very good effect.


Depending on what field you wind up in, it gets far, far worse.

I just finished up a memo on a case I've almost got settled dealing with conflict of laws, the Eerie doctrine, bankruptcy law, and statutory interpretation under both California and Utah law.  My head hurts.

Also, I graduated from Norman High School.


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## thsmormonsmokes (Dec 19, 2012)

To the original point of the thread, I'd be interested in your recipe if you're willing to share.

Also, my girlfriend just bought a Blendtech.  That sucker blends the snot out of anything and everything.  This is opening up a lot of possibilities for stuff I could include in sauces.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd have to say, baring the literal meaning of Fruit, most Fruits and Vegetable are divided by Sweet or Savory. Of course then you really get people going with stuff like...Green Papaya is tart and very crunchy so it is considered and used as a Vegetable. Ripe Papaya is very sweet and soft so it's used as any Fruit. Red Watermelon Flesh, Fruit...Pickled Watermelon Rind, Veg. I am sure there are other examples. I used to Torture my students all the time with test questions based on these distinctions...
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






...JJ


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## bertjo44 (Dec 19, 2012)

Try this, awesome on pork or chicken

Uncle Lou's Sweet Spicy Love

2 cups vinegar, red wine
1/3 cup seasoning, Uncle Lou's Corruption (below or buy online)
2 cups hot sauce
1 2/3 cups honey

Corruption Chicken Rub (adapted from TV)
2 tbsp garlic powder
2 tbsp mild chili powder
1 tbsp salt
1 tbsp paprika
1 tbsp onion powder
1 tsp celery salt
1 tbsp sugar
1 tsp lemon pepper
1/2 tsp hickory smoke seasoning

Mix together in a bowl. Keep in an airtight container for later use.


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## mvincent42 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok guys, sorry it took so long for me to post this. Haven't used the actual recipe in a while.

 BBQ Sauce

1 small onion, diced
Serrano peppers, jalapenos, or chipotle chilis in adoba sauce.
     (I usually use 4-5 chipotle chilis but depending on how spicy you want it. You will be removing some of the heat later so spicy is ok.)
½ cup garlic, minced
½ red pepper, cut in strips or diced

Saute above ingredients in a large saucepan with a small amount of oil (bacon grease works well).  When onions are clear get ready:

2-50 oz cans tomato soup

Add first can and bllend with immersion blender until smooth then add second can.  Return to heat and when warm add:

 1 bottle Worcestershire sauce
¼ cup yellow mustard
1 cup brown sugar.
½ cup maple syrup.
½ cup cider vinegar
Heat stirring frequently until simmering.  Once simmering and mixed well, add at least 1 stick of butter until you reach desired spiciness level.  The more butter you add the less spicy it will become. I usually add 1 to 2 sticks.  Also if you want a sweeter sauce, you can add more sugar, syrup, or honey as desired. 

Once back at simmering, thicken with cornstarch slurry until desired thickness. Yield approximately 1 gallon. I usually keep it thin and portion and freeze. Then when I pull it out to use I will heat some up and thicken it depending on what I want to use it for. Thin it works great on pulled pork or as a mop, or thicken to use to the side of ribs or brisket or even meatloaf or dunking chicken nuggets.

If you thicken then freeze it gets kind of a weird consistency until you heat it back up, then it smoothes right out.

Please ask if there are any questions. Hope this is helpful to someone. Next time I make it I think I am going to put it in my smoker for a couple hours on low to get a smoke flavor in there too.


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## smoking shawn86 (Dec 20, 2012)

I found this great web site it has the history of BBQ sauces,and the regions where those sauces come from,on there I found this sauce that is made with pureed bell peppers.

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/BBQ_sauces/index.html

 
If you guys haven't check it out yet you should


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 21, 2012)

Mvincent, Your sauce sounds good. I should point out that Cornstarch thickened anything can not be frozen. It loses it thickening power. Switch to Arrowroot. Although slightly more expensive it holds up better under a variety of temps. The only issue is Arrowroot can't be used in Dairy based sauces, it gets Slimy. I don't think the Butter in your sauce will affect it...JJ


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## mvincent42 (Dec 21, 2012)

Haven't ever had a problem wig freezing except its a little funny consistency (almost a gel) until you heat it up again then it is just fine. If you would prefer to thicken with a roux it works also except I think the butter in the roux will remove more of the heat then I would like. Also like i say these days i leave it thin and thicken as i decide i want to since i like it thin for certain applications. Don't know what arroroot is but I will google it and do some research. Thanks for the info jimmy.


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## roger shoaf (Jan 14, 2013)

When they harvest tomatoes (other than fresh) almost all of the production ends up as paste at the cannery.  From there it is canned in some method (everything from the little tiny cans of paste to 55 gallon drums and giant plastic bags sitting in totes so it can be fork lifted about.  When needed it gets sent to a different plant down the road.

Down the road it gets diluted spiced, and re-canned as ketchup, spaghetti sauce, tomato sauce, tomato juice or what ever.

You can just put in paste and adjust the sugar, vinegar and salt to your taste and get the same result.


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## smoking shawn86 (Jan 15, 2013)

thanks do you have any recipes that you would like to share


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## fwismoker (Jan 15, 2013)

Same for me, i want to stay away from making sauce w/out ketchup.  I don't like the idea of the high fructose corn syrup, it's either make my own ketchup or buy the natural stuff with out the syrups.


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