# Brisket fat up or down?



## mama's smoke

I'll be smoking a 10 lb brisket for a family gathering next Tuesday on my MES.  Should I smoke fat side up or down?  Should I score the fat before the rub?


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## ecto1

I smoke fat side up scored before rub just like you asked.  This reminds me I have a brisket in the freezer i need to cook.


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## rdknb

I do the same fat up and scored


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## Dutch

I did a 13 lb. packer last weekend in the Lang. Fat was scored and placed fat side down.


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## graywolf

No ,I don't score the fat at all,  The fat is always up, because when your brisket is cooking for a long time you want the fat up to keep the meat from drying out and the fat also breaks down the meat as it cooks, to make it tender and juicy,  Just rememeber keep it low and slow.


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## meateater

Fat side up without scoring for me.


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## adiochiro3

What graywolf said: fat side up, unscored (probably doesn't matter too much).  Smoke at 225* to 165*, foil and take to 195* for slicing or 205* for pulling (more like falling apart, really).  Don't freak out when it stalls -- cause it will; just let it ride.  And don't forget to rest foiled & wrapped in towels in a cooler for at least an hour (2 hours is better).  I just use salt, pepper and smoke and let the meat speak for itself.  There are no such thing as leftovers when I smoke these 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Have fun and enjoy!  And don't forget the Q-view!


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## smoking gun

I'm with dutch, I ALWAYS cook brisket fat side down. I'm not using a MES though so I like the fa cap as a safeguard from temp spikes. On butts I do fat up and score....Go figure... lol


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## pineywoods

I'm another that does fat side down I just seem to get a better bark that way.


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## smoke 2 geaux

+1 for scored and up


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## mballi3011

I'm also going with the scoring for more area for the rub to stick too. Then smoke it fat up for self basting.


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## corn cob

There are "Uppers" ~~ "Downers" ~~ and "Flippers"

"Uppers" cook fat side up so the fat will render and baste the meat...Sounds logical. If your talking about the sides and ends. ~~ On the other hand if one is talking about the fat rendering and running down through the meat...Ahmmm No. Meat is not a sponge...The fat will run down (penetrate) to a depth of 1/8th to 1/4 inch..Not much more........

"Downers' cook fat side down to form a heat shield of sorts between the meat and heat source....(Think about the Space Shuttle) to keep the meat from drying quite so much ~~ It works well.

"Flippers" do both. Flipping one way... then the other to obtain "more even cooking" on some BBQ pits...it has it's place at times.

Over the decades I have drifted toward being a "Downer" ... Then again, sometimes, just for the hell of it...I flip it a time or two... always ending up in the "Downer" position.


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## rbranstner

As you can see by the variety of opinions there is no right or wrong way when it comes to good BBQ. Experimenting is the key. Find what you like and stick with it. No one way is right or wrong as long as it comes out tasting good.


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## dick foster

I do fat up but don't bother to score it. Just trim to 1/2" or so thick.


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## erain

Corn Cob said:


> There are "Uppers" ~~ "Downers" ~~ and "Flippers"
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> "Uppers" cook fat side up so the fat will render and baste the meat...Sounds logical. If your talking about the sides and ends. ~~ On the other hand if one is talking about the fat rendering and running down through the meat...Ahmmm No. Meat is not a sponge...The fat will run down (penetrate) to a depth of 1/8th to 1/4 inch..Not much more........
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> "Downers' cook fat side down to form a heat shield of sorts between the meat and heat source....(Think about the Space Shuttle) to keep the meat from drying quite so much ~~ It works well.
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> "Flippers" do both. Flipping one way... then the other to obtain "more even cooking" on some BBQ pits...it has it's place at times.
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> Over the decades I have drifted toward being a "Downer" ... Then again, sometimes, just for the hell of it...I flip it a time or two... always ending up in the "Downer" position.


you forgot about the scorchers...... i sear my scored fatcap bigtime. i dont know if i agree with the theory of having fatcap down and used as a shield like the space shuttle. your smoker is a controlled inviroment and should not have a heat issue which you need an insulation on the bottom. having the fatcap on top however, will act as an insulation on top and being heat rises will act as a blanket to maintain temps in slight downswings in temps in the smoker box which you will have in a charcoal smoker.. but thats just my opinion, i have seen many briskets made all ways which really all turn out great..... i think Dutch will agree with me there is only one factor that is key... make sure you have a left-handed brisket!!!


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## nwdave

Oh sure, just when I thought I was starting to get a handle on the mystique of "the Brisket" and now you gotta say something about the "Left Handed Brisket".  I'm having enough difficulty trying to recognize what might or might not be a decent brisket, then you have to drop this on me........I truly hope that this is some inside poke in the ribs,.....we got another one on the ropes.......  If not, I hope somebody gives us some pictures to help confuse us more. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I've never been afraid to ask the tough question.  Just don't know if I can handle the answer......


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## corn cob

erain said:


> you forgot about the scorchers...... i sear my scored fatcap bigtime. i dont know if i agree with the theory of having fatcap down and used as a shield like the space shuttle. your smoker is a controlled inviroment and should not have a heat issue which you need an insulation on the bottom. having the fatcap on top however, will act as an insulation on top and being heat rises will act as a blanket to maintain temps in slight downswings in temps in the smoker box which you will have in a charcoal smoker.. but thats just my opinion, i have seen many briskets made all ways which really all turn out great..... i think Dutch will agree with me there is only one factor that is key... make sure you have a left-handed brisket!!!


So in your opinion...the fat cap on top acts a "blanky" to keep the meat warm and cozy during slight downswings in temperature in charcoal cookers...~~~ Never heard of that one!


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## erain

Corn Cob said:


> So in your opinion...the fat cap on top acts a "blanky" to keep the meat warm and cozy during slight downswings in temperature in charcoal cookers...~~~ Never heard of that one!


and here i thought it would have been the left hand brisky that would a gotcha LOL!!!


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## tukson

I opened this thread to see how to place my treasure on the grill and boy did this answer my questions.. LOL.. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I now know to put it up, down, scoured up, scoured down, flipped and this is just the right handed ways....


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## Dutch

> Originally Posted by *erain*
> <Snip>..... i think Dutch will agree with me there is only one factor that is key... make sure you have a left-handed brisket!!!





> NWDave said:
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Click to expand...

Dave, it's no 'inside poke'-there is truth to the left side brisket being more tender than the right side brisket. The majority of cattle lay on their right sides so when they stand, the right leg does most of the work. Sure the left front leg does some work in standing but it doesn't carry as much of the weight as the right.

Next time I'm at the market I'll do a side by side pic of a left and right brisket


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## corn cob

erain said:


> and here i thought it would have been the left hand brisky that would a gotcha LOL!!!










 Nah...I heard that before!!!.....While there is some element of truth to it...There's so many other variables I'm not sure it's all that noticeable one way or the other.....Fun to think about however......

Have Fun!


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## warthog

Did my last one fat side down on the UDS.  Foiled at 175 and removed at 203. Let it rest in the cooler 3 hours wrapped in a towel.  Everyone at the BBQ loved it. Very tender, yet I was able to also slice the point without it falling apart.


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## erain

tukson said:


> I opened this thread to see how to place my treasure on the grill and boy did this answer my questions.. LOL..
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you are correct, here you are asking for help and we are really not helping you are we??? lotsa opinions out there arnt there... whether you decide fatcap up or down or decide to flip i dont think it makes that big a diffence... now a sear on the brisket that will make a difference in flavor big time but if this is your first time stick with just smoking it, if you want to sear one pm me and i will send you to some threads that will show you step by step.

the left handed thing, well i take it with a grain of salt... but ya never know. when selecting briskets, have the fatcap up and the "point end" away from you. if the curve is on the left side you have a left handed brisket...  but i select the briskets with the least resistance to bending, if i narrow it down to a few i will then choose the left side. if i have a right side seems to bend easier than a left i will take the right...

the most important thing in my book is a tender brisket and they dont always finish up at the same temp. and the only way you can reallly tell is how the probe feels when you slide it in the chunk. if it feels like its going into soft butter, than it is done. hope you found something useful here and cant wait to see your results!!!

and on edit, make sure you put an alum pan under the brisket... some just lay the brisket in the pan, catch all the drippings. while brisket is in the cooler resting pour the drippings in a bowl and into refrig... the fat will rise and harden for easy removal. use whats left to serve with the brisket or include in a finishing sauce if you pull it.


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## tukson

thanks, erain, I haven't yet got the confidence to try one of those ..... if I catch one on sale in the next month or so I am going to try it, maybe at the end of August.... a few of us in my family have birthdays then and it would be a good group to try one on... I have just now got the pork shoulders to the point that I don't have any reservations with them.. so till then... thanks again


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## smokey mo

I have to agree with E.  Pick it up and let it bend, that seems to me the most reliable way to guess at tender quality.  And watch the USDA quality stamp on the meat. Get the best grade you can.  I didn't use to think it mattered until I broke down and spent the money.  

I tend to follow the Tulsa Jeff method of placing my brisky in a disposable pan while it is cooking fat up scoured and rubbed.  You never lose a drop of juice and it is more simple to move to the house for cutting the point off.

IMHO and meager experience.

Mo


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## dick foster

I think the common understanding or misunderstanding as the case may be is that the fat melts and the fat dripping down the sides of the brisket bastes it helping to keep it moist. Then I also read that a lot of folks trim all the fat off of their briskets and they are quite happy with the results they get.

I guess it gets down to the fact that if burying a dead black cat in your backyard by the light of a full moon always does it for ya, and always makes for a good outcome, then that's exactly what you should keep doing.

Like any good religion, smoking meat seems to have a lot of ritual and voodoo elements associated with it.


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## Dutch

That's the nice thing about the art of smoking and BBQ-so many ways of achieving the end result.  Try the different methods and see which one gave you the best result or at least came the closest to what you were looking for and then tweak it some til you get it the way you want.

As you learn your smoker and become more confident in your skills, you'll notice that you are no longer doing things now that you used to do.

When I first started out, I used foil in almost all my smokes-brisket, ribs and butts. In the last year or so, I've gone the entire smoke without having to use foil except for foiling the meat and wrapping with towels to put into the cooler for holding.

So unless you really screw up the smoke session, your mistakes and not so perfect smokes are still edible, plus it gives you an excuse to "practice".


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## nwdave

Whoa, back up there a bit.  I came here to learn about smoking and how to wow my guests.  Now I can tell them something about animal husbandry?  So it's not a nudge, nudge, wink, wink?  All right.  Look forward to the pictures.

By the way, as a quick comment, Dutch, thank you for the Wicked Baked Beans.  I follow the basic recipe but use rib trimmings and they always receive high praise.  Never seem to have any left overs and I always make a double batch.....I can't say thanks enough.


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## smoking gun

Hold on Erain! You told me the most important thing was what you named the piece of meat. Now you're saying a lefty is better than a righty?


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## diesel

I say you should do Two briskets.  One fat side up and the other fat side down.  See which one turns out best and go with that technique.  Good luck and post some qview


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## ak1

I do mine fat up, no scoring. Not so much to render the fat through the meat, but moreso to use the fat to help keep the meat moist on the surface.


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## celticgladiator

i was reading this thread as i am planning on smoking a brisket tomorrow and now my head is spinning lol. I think i will try it on the down side. I am going to use my rib rack flipped over a foil pan to catch the drippings and keep the meat just over it. mouth waters in anticipation.....so whats the "best rub" to use on brisket that isnt spicy? i know everyone has their own "best " but am just looking for a few ideas and you guys seem to know the deal.....


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## johnnybigsmoke

Is my butcher going to laugh at me when I ask for a left handed brisket? I have a feeling he's going to call the mental heath professionals to take me to a comfy padded room... We will see!!! I hope they have Wifi because I'm still going to need my SMF fix...


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## jirodriguez

I would suggest for t hose people doing there first brisket that they cook it fat side up and scored. The extra free basting can always be helpfull while you are learning how to run your smoker for 14+ hrs. Then once you have a feel for  brisket start experimenting with fat down, and searing if you want.

Definately catch the drippings in a pan under the brisket, and I suggest you dump a beer in the drippings pan. Then when the brisket hits 165-170° put it in the dripping pan with another beer (first one will be almost evaporated), and cover it tightly with foil. Take the internal temp. to 190°, pull the brisket from the pan wrap it in foil and put it in the cooler to rest for 2 hrs. Take the liquid in the pan and put it in the freezer for a couple of minutes till the fat sets up, then remove the fat and put the juices back in a pan to heat on low. Your brisket should come out firm enough to slice, but fork tender.


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## pandemonium

What is scoring on a fat cap? cutting slits completely through it? poking holes through it? or just cutting almost through?


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## jirodriguez

You cut a cris-cros patern just through the fat so the rub can actually reach the meat. Usually you end up cutting most of the fat off before you eat it, so if your rub was just in the fat then you cut off all the flavor. Scoring it lets the rub flavor  get to the meat.


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## erain

Smoking gun said:


> Hold on Erain! You told me the most important thing was what you named the piece of meat. Now you're saying a lefty is better than a righty?


hea..... that was supposed to be a secret!!!! dang, let someone in on something valuble and pretty soon ngets spread all over the internet forum LOL... dang been a long time since Jlo eh!!!


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## pandemonium

JIRodriguez said:


> You cut a cris-cros patern just through the fat so the rub can actually reach the meat. Usually you end up cutting most of the fat off before you eat it, so if your rub was just in the fat then you cut off all the flavor. Scoring it lets the rub flavor  get to the meat.


Thanks


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## jerseyhunter

I remember reading the left vs right hand briskett thread. any one know where to find it? I believe it gives info on telling them apart.


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## eman

Went to sams to get a brisky . was at the counter sorting out a few leftys and after i got 4 sorted out .Tried the bend test and got it down to the one i wanted.

Realized the butcher was standing there watching me. told him i guess ya think i'm crazy ?

 He said ,Not at all ,Was just wanting to know what kind of smoker ya have???

  He said invaribly when ever someone comes in and takes time to select their meat and doesn't  worry about whats cheapest ,They are smokers.


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## celticgladiator

i'd get to know that guy, he will prolly be able to hook you up with some good stuff after you get to know him.


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## dick foster

We are being watched!!


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## tukson

Yikes! What service..... I asked for a butcher last week at wally world and they told me they didn't have one....this store just gets everything prepackaged ..... I have to drive into Tucson (20mi) to find a butcher at ww.......... I've been trading there for 2years and didn't even know they don't have butchers in every store. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





.............. Nobody loves us out here in the badlands of Arizona!


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## eman

tukson said:


> Yikes! What service..... I asked for a butcher last week at wally world and they told me they didn't have one....this store just gets everything prepackaged ..... I have to drive into Tucson (20mi) to find a butcher at ww.......... I've been trading there for 2years and didn't even know they don't have butchers in every store.
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It's all wal marts, not just arizona. None of them that i know of have meat cutting / wrapping facilitys anymore.


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## dick foster

I haven't seen any either. Safeway has what they call butchers but their meat isn't what it used to be so I don't even bother with them. Only the upper end local supermarket chain here has a decent meat department with real butchers anywhere around here. From what I can see, what they call butchers in the big chain markets like Safeway, Albertson's etc. are nothing more than wrappers and someone to keep the meat cases stocked up.


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## rdknb

I got mine from all places Acme.  Wife asked the butcher and he told her to come back in 15 and had a flat for her


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## tukson

I had not realized how fortunate I have been... we live about a mile from a local chain here in Az called Bashas... their butcher was the only one around here that carries pork bellies, so I actually thought they all did till I tried to find some in the other stores to compare prices.. only to find out others didn't even have a real butcher on staff...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  

A few years ago a neighbor told me about a mexican butcher shop about 25miles from where I live and we have got tripe and pigs feet from him over the years, but will have to get back over there and see if he has some whole briskets and pork bellies ..


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## chefrc

Fat side up, No Score and the same rub I invented 30 years ago


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## roksmith

Fat cap down. Trim the excess fat, especially the hard fat between the point and flat. Cook the brisket with the fat you trimmed off above your brisket. That protects the bottom and keeps the top moist.

Foil at about 165. When you foil, flip the brisket to fat cap up.

Once you hit 195-200 and the probe goes in like butter, place the brisket (still fat at up) in a cooler covered with towels and let it sit at least an hour.. but I've let them rest for 5 or 6 hours.. longer of you have a cambro.

The better quality brisket you start with, the more room you have for error. A select brisket can turn out just fine, but a choice or even a prime will provide you with more room for error and will not dry out as fast.


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## wolfswood

Meat is not a sponge.  Yes, it can absorb moisture (think brining) in small amounts as long as the circumstances are right (like a low temperature, salt content and the right PH.)  The fat from the melting cap is going to pour around the meat and drop off the bottom.  All this is going to do is wash off much of your spice rub and rob you of a bark.


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## rshort

Mama's Smoke said:


> I'll be smoking a 10 lb brisket for a family gathering next Tuesday on my MES.  Should I smoke fat side up or
> down?  Should I score the fat before the rub?
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> I always smoke fat cap down, then when I wrap I switch to fat side up for the duration of the cook.


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## wolfswood

You're going to get mixed answers, but I believe always smoke brisket fat side down.  Heat rising over the brisket is the primary source of drying. By using the fat cap of the brisket (the thick layer of fat on one side of the brisket) as a shield between the intense heat of the fire and the delicate meat will give a more tender brisket with a lot less surface drying.

Many will say, FAT SIDE UP, but it's scientifically proven, meat is not a sponge. Yes it will absorb moisture (think brining) in small amounts as long as the circumstances are right (like a low temperature, salt content and the right PH). The fat from the melting cap is going to pour around the meat and drip off the bottom.  This action will wash off much your spice rub.

Also, the brisket should be as cold as you can have it (without freezing) when you put it on the smoker.  Don't let it sit out at room temperature at all.


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## mikesys

I too put it fat side down to protect the meat.  Low and slow (between 230 and 260), I've never had a dry brisket.  That said, 99% of the brisket I cook are from a local meatlocker and top quality.


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## rc4u

just bragging like many here do...hope you don't mind if so I will delete it...jeff


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## outspoken

Doing my first tomorrow for the big show (aka Turkey day). Got it from a local butcher, there were three on display up front and I didn't really have an idea of what I was looking for so grabbed the one that looked most similar to what I'd seen on Pitmasters. I'll do a thread on it tomorrow.

After reading this thread I have to say that I'm more uncertain of what to do than ever before, but the show must go on. Going to trim the fat closer to the meat and cook it fat down. 275+ with no rub, just salt'n'peppa. Pull and wrap at 160, cook to 190 then fridge overnight.


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## rogerwilco

Outspoken, I will suggest that you check for doneness beginning at 190°F, but realize that many briskets will need to cook longer than that in order to fully hit the "moist and tender" stage, when a toothpick can be inserted with little resistance in several areas of the meat.

 Good luck on the cook!


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## dirtworldmike

outspoken said:


> Doing my first tomorrow for the big show (aka Turkey day). Got it from a local butcher, there were three on display up front and I didn't really have an idea of what I was looking for so grabbed the one that looked most similar to what I'd seen on Pitmasters. I'll do a thread on it tomorrow.
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> After reading this thread I have to say that I'm more uncertain of what to do than ever before, but the show must go on. Going to trim the fat closer to the meat and cook it fat down. 275+ with no rub, just salt'n'peppa. Pull and wrap at 160, cook to 190 then fridge overnight.


Are you doing a flat or a packer?  How big?


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## outspoken

dirtworldmike said:


> Are you doing a flat or a packer?  How big?


I'm guessing it is a packer 'cause it sure ain't flat. It almost has a pyramid shape to it. I'll post a photo when I get home.

It's 4lbs.


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## dirtsailor2003

outspoken said:


> I'm guessing it is a packer 'cause it sure ain't flat. It almost has a pyramid shape to it. I'll post a photo when I get home.
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4 pounds and triangular sounds more like the point. Which is commonly used for burnt ends, and will have a higher marbling than the flat. The flat is typically more rectangular in shape and leaner. When connected to the point you have a packer. The weight of a packer would be in the 15+ pound range.

This is one of the est brisket posts ever posted here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...ood-sliced-brisket-defies-conventional-wisdom


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## outspoken

dirtsailor2003 said:


> 4 pounds and triangular sounds more like the point. Which is commonly used for burnt ends, and will have a higher marbling than the flat. The flat is typically more rectangular in shape and leaner. When connected to the point you have a packer. The weight of a packer would be in the 15+ pound range.
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> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...ood-sliced-brisket-defies-conventional-wisdom


That makes a lot of sense. Yes, it is highly marbled.

Does that mean I'm going to be doing something entirely different from what's been posted here as this thread... ok I see n the thread you've posted around page 5 they start talking about separating the flat from the point.


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## lehmeow

outspoken said:


> dirtsailor2003 said:
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Click to expand...


I think you'll smoke the point the same as the flat. It's funny cause I just saw a rerun of pitmasters in Kansas city and they had to cook a point brisket. It seems typical that you'll be making burnt ends out of that and would have a tough time getting nice slices due to the higher fat content.


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## outspoken

Here are some photos as promised...













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