# Smoke my first pork butt, what a disaster!!!!, Please help



## kevin0422 (Sep 27, 2010)

So this weekend I smoked a pork shoulder in my vertical brink-man smoker.  I purchased the pork butt (picnic cut) from Win-co in Southern California, It came in a two pack (6 pounds each with bone in in each of them).  I rubbed them down with mustard, I didn't trim and thing off and marinated them over night.  The next morning I washed off the mustard and rubbed them down with a rub.  I let them sit to come to room temp for 2 hours before putting them on the smoker at 250 degrees.  I smoked it from 9 am to 6 pm almost 9 hours.  I also mopped it every 45 minutes with apple juice and apple cider vin.  I made sure all day my smoker was at 250, I had a dig therm to check the temp.  When I pulled off the pork but my internal temp by the bone was 232 deg according to my digital therm, but when I took it off the smoker, my reading off my standard therm only came to 150 when I stuck in in the side of the meat. I stuck it in the oven at 250 for 1 hour and let it rest for 1 hour.  I went to pull it and it was tough, fatty and almost still uncooked in the middle.  The meat was white, not nice and brown like you see on Diners Drive ins and Dives when they go to BBQ restaurants.  What did I do wrong.  Did I buy a wrong piece of meat.  I was really disappointed in my results after spending all day with the smoker.  Is there are better place in southern California to buy pork shoulders/pork butts then at Win-co.  I cant imagine there meats being of superior quality.  I think alot of Mexican ethnicity's in the area purchase them to make carnitas.  Can you please help and advise to my dismal results.  Thanks


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## dale5351 (Sep 27, 2010)

My first guess might be that the when you checked the internal temp, you got the probe touching the bone and got a false high reading.  I've always heard to make sure you have the probe tip well into the meat and not touching bone.  The fact that when you took it off, the internal temp was only 150 supports that idea. 

I also don't open my smoker and spritz or baste.  There are those who say that lowers the temp and increases the time needed.


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## alblancher (Sep 27, 2010)

Welcome to the forum.

We all do things a bit differently but looks like you have the basics down pretty well.  Your cooking chamber temp was ok.  My first question is did you use wood, sawdust, chunks?  Something to impart a smoke flavor to the meat.  The way you described your results you got what I get when I cook a butt/ fresh ham in the oven.  If you didn't use a smoke source you got what you should expect.  The amount of fat in the meat is directly related to the quality of the product you started with. If the meat was raw in the middle you had your thermometer in the wrong place.  Placing the therm by the bone will give you an incorrect reading for the meat (bone transmits heat a lot better).  Seems like the only thing you need to do is put it back in the oven.  I would use a higher temp and let the fat on the outside of the butt crisp up a bit.   Maybe too late but next time do an injection of apple juice, garlic juice, onion juice, soy sauce to add flavor.


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## boykjo (Sep 27, 2010)

calibrate your therms... 32 degree ice bath and then 212 degree boil. I would Check internal temp before the meat went in the smoker so the temp is even all the way through and use pork butt, boston butt, pork shoulder. They are all the same. Opening the smoker several times will also cause the temp to drop out and require longer cooking time


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## kevin0422 (Sep 27, 2010)

I used standard charcol coals with soaked wood chips.  I guess I must of got a false reading.  Should a butt be trimmed of fat.  I just seamed once I cut into it was pretty fatty.  Not like on the shows were they are dark colored and they just pull apart.  How long should a 6 lbs butt take (9 hours? at 250).  Any chance someone knows of a better place to buy pork butts in southern california.  Thanks


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## forluvofsmoke (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree 100% with keeping the smoke chamber closed...too much heat loss and added cooking time. Oh, I don't inject my meats either...that way I can take my sweet time getting I/T's up over 140*.

I've personally used dry rubs which produce a flavor and bark that I'm happy with, so I leave the meat alone until it's time to foil it up.

The internal temp readings you get from a probe should be considered a baseline temperature. When you get to where you think the temp is right for pulling, stick a semi-blunt ended object into the meat in a few areas to be sure of the tenderness. Foiled resting just takes it a step further to ensure that it will be fall apart ternder.

I have had a butt or 2 not pull as I would have liked them to. The main issues I ran accross were due to fresh pork shoulders (not brining it myself), or not getting temps up for a long enough period.

Most folks will say to bring the internal temp up to at least 200*, and then foil/wrap in towels and rest for 3 or 4 hours before pulling the meat. I have used this method many times myself and the results are easily duplicated. I have also recently found that if I reach an internal temp anywhere in the range of 150-180*, foil and hold the chamber temp in the 190-210* range for 6-8 hours (gas smoker or oven), and then rest briefly (10-60 minutes), I get the same results. IMO, the peak temperature of the meat isn't as important as the time it is exposed to this heat...low and slow is the melting pot for connective tissues, and also renders out much of the interior fat.

I would be sure to brine, if the pork is fresh. If it is cryovac packed, the brining is already done for you, and I preffer these over fresh for the sake of less time/effort to prepare the meat the day before the smoke.

Water boiling temps for thermometer checks will vary depending on elevation...I'm @ 4,900 feet, and 204* is a tough temp to reach for me (that's a rapid boil).

Here's a link to a reference chart...there have been many of these posted in the past, but another won't hurt anything:

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Calib-boil.html

I may not have answered all your questions, but my past experiences may give you a bit more insight as to which direction you may want to go with the next butt smoke.

Keep trying, fellow smoker, as with each smoke you gain wisdom, build your skill level, and most importantly create more personal confidence in your abilities.

Every first smoke will bring with it a learning curve, so just sit back and soak up the knowledge as it happens. And, by all means, if you get stumped, drop a note...we do our best to take care of each other here.

Hope to see and hear you smoking again soon!

Eric

Edit: BTW, leave the fat cap on and just score it so it renders down and keeps the meat covered better...sometimes I forget to score the fat, and wish I would have a few hours into the smoke.


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## ack226 (Sep 27, 2010)

From what you described it sounds like you just didn't cook it long enough.  Every butt will be different, depending on its size and composition, but for me it generally takes around 15-18 hours to cook a pork butt (7-8 pounds).  If you were opening the smoker every 45 minutes to mop it then it would take even longer since the smoker takes time to heat back up every time you open it.  I generally don't mop or baste mine as they're cooking and they still come out great.  If you are going to mop or baste I'd just do it once at the halfway point and possibly again near the end when you're opening the smoker anyway to check for doneness.

When checking the temp, you want the thermometer in the center of the thickest part of the meat, but not touching any bones.  I like to check in several different spots to make sure that I didn't just hit a hot spot.

When it's done correctly you should be able to pull it into pieces easily using just your hands.  There will be some pieces of fat in the meat, but much more meat than fat, assuming you got a decent piece of meat.  

Sorry to hear that your first try didn't turn out well.  Keep at it because once you get it figured out the results are well worth it!  Good luck!


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## bbally (Sep 27, 2010)

This is strictly a time duration problem.

You did not cook it anywhere long enough for the pork to render properly.  You can hurry a butt up in ten hours if you foil and let steam do its thing, but to long low and slow I would never even look before 12 hours and personally like 15 hours due to my temperature set.

Also remember... *if you're lookin' it ain't cookin'!*   Low and slow is a no look process... that is why they make the beer to go with the cooking!


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## fathomthis (Sep 27, 2010)

Don't always go by time though. My last pork but was done in 7 hours for a 6.6 pounder. Scared me at first but it was certainly done!


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## bigbountybbq (Sep 27, 2010)

As far as meats go, Winco is def. NOT the place to be buying good cuts of meat. Notice the EXP date on all the meat they sell, it goes bad within a day or two. I've noticed they repackage meats from the stores that couldn't sell it. Try Sam's Club or even Stater Bro's or Ralphs, anywhere but Winco! Also letting the pork get up to 190 or 200 then wrapping in foil and a towel then set it in a ice chest(with no ice) to rest is a must for pulled pork!!  btw where in so cal are you?


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## kevin0422 (Sep 27, 2010)

I am in chino hills, near corona.  Thanks guys for all the imput, I will try at different meat market than winco.  It just seemed like the quality wasnt there.  I guess I will just have to not check it every hour.  Do most guys use digital them or standard them?


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## placebo (Sep 27, 2010)

Never bought meat from Winco so I can't comment on that, the produce there is terrible I can say that! As far as your pork goes two things stand out for me. One is the fact that your probe may have been touching or too close to the bone skewing the reading. The other is you mentioned your pork was a picnic shoulder and without pics to look at I began to wonder if your picninc shoulder was like the one picnic shoulder I had, with skin still on. Did it look like this?






Or this:


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## jlstout (Sep 27, 2010)

I just cooked one yesterday.  I never mop or spritz my butts.  Don't open the smoker so often!  I cooked a 6 pounder yesterday, and it took 9 hours at 240 to reach an internal of 195.  Took it off and rested it for an hour before pulling.  I only opened my UDS once to  look at it!  If you are lookin, you aint cookin!


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## ack226 (Sep 27, 2010)

Regarding thermometers:  I can't stand the manual ones with a dial.  They take too long to get a reading.  I have a digital remote thermometer with two leads.  One measures the air temp inside the smoker and the other stays in the meat while I'm cooking so I know when it's nearly done without opening the smoker.  When it's nearly done I periodically check the meat in several places to make sure it's all up to the proper temp.


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## kevin0422 (Sep 27, 2010)

It looked like the second one in the picture....thanks guys for all the great response.  I guess I try sams club or stater brothers for another pork shoulder


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## lucky13 (Sep 27, 2010)

Hey Kevin, just thought I would throw my 2 cents in...  I noticed that you said you rubbed with mustard and then marinated overnight, then washed off & put dry rub on.  The main point of the Mustard is to help the rub stick to the meat.  I normally put a coat of mustard on the meat, then a generous rub and then wrap it snug with a plastic wrap the night before.  I also read that you sat the meat out for 2 hours to get to room temp.  I would be very concerned if you left it out to get to room temp, cooked it and it didn't get done.  Need to get it from 40 degrees to 140 in about 4 hours or you run the risk of contamination.  As far as the fat goes, leave it on.  If you get it cooked to proper temp and there is still more fat than you would like then you could pull it off by hand and disregard at that time.  Lastly each piece of meat is different,  1.5 hours per pound is a good reference but in reality it could take 6-12 hours depending on its attitude that day.  It will get done when it is ready to get done.  Butts are my favorite piece to smoke, just takes some patience and TLC.  Good luck with your next one!!


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## wntrlnd (Sep 27, 2010)

Kevin, you say you are sure your smoker was at 250 because you were using a digital thermometer.

Was it the sort of remote digital thermometer with 2 probes, one for the smoker chamber and one for your meat?   Many of us use the Maverick ET-73.

You want to be able to monitor the temperatures without lifting the lid of the smoker.  Every time you do that you lose a LOT of heat.  If you were opening the lid for spritzing once an hour, maybe a quarter of your cooking time was substantially less than 250 degrees. 

Built in thermometers that come with smokers can be WAY off.  It is crucial to have a reliable read on what your smoker temperature actually is.

There are lots and lots of old threads about cooking butts.  If you read them you'll notice many talk about how butts can take a rediculously long time to reach 200-205 degrees.  Some go much faster, but more often than not they take their own sweet time.  It just comes with the territory.

Watching Q on television is sort of like watching Poker on TV.   The pros make it look so easy anyone can do it.  And it's true the basics are easy, but getting really good at it takes some time and practice.  Stick with it, keep reading threads here at SMF and soon you'll be doing butts that look like those on TV.

One last thing: I might be wrong, and it's probably a matter of personal taste, but it isn't necessary to wash off the mustard before you apply the rub.  In fact, the purpose of the mustard is to hold even more rub on the butt and make a nice bark.  You don't end up with mustardy tasting pork if you leave it on, the cooking process mutes the mustard taste and makes all the flavors blend.


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## kevin0422 (Sep 27, 2010)

okay great, thanks for all the advice guys.  Really awesome how everyone replies I greatly appreciate it.


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## deannc (Sep 27, 2010)

WOW...if you don't have a headache from reading all of that I'll share mine with you! LMAO  

Not to regurgitate the many many things mentioned already, but make sure you have accurate probes for your smokin' chamber and your meat.  Calibrate them, have a spare on hand.  All of the injecting, not injecting, brining, rubbing blah blah are all things you'll have to figure out later.  Get a good baseline method for completing a successful smoke and then you can worry about all of the other stuff later.  I've found just a rub is more than enough and haven't found a need to inject or brine shoulders.

Follow the information here in this Wiki article for the Basic Pulled Pork    Get a baseline without worrying with all the extra stuff right off the bat.  Just my humble opinion.


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## meateater (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree with ^^^. Calibrate your therms and go from fridge to smoker. Before you put it on the smoker find the thickest part of the meat and say its 4 inches take your thumb and place 2 inches up the probe and insert till you hit your thumb. Oh and dont forget the qview.


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## coronaca92879 (Sep 27, 2010)

Kevin theirs a butcher shop in chino called hottinger meats. I'm in corona and love that place.


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## kevin0422 (Sep 28, 2010)

Yeah, I have been to hottingers many times, I didnt know they sold pork shoulders.  I will give them a call, if not I will call sams club later today.


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## bronxbbq (Sep 28, 2010)

Trim the fat/skin off the butt. Pork has enough fat in it. 

Once trimmed slather the mustard on. DO NOT wash it off.

Next put rub of choice on

Now after the rub has melted a bit on the butt. Take saran wrap and wrap the butt tight. Place in the fridge over night.

"Some may want to inject" 

Get a ET-73 remote thermomiter. It will save you gref. 

Use the minoin meathod and keep temp between 225-250 

Don't go by time go by temp to tell when its done.


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## kevin0422 (Sep 29, 2010)

Does the Minion method produce too much heat?, I have a brinkman vertical smoker.  By putting coal all the way around like the Minion method shows with the wood on top allow for a nice low heat over a good legnth of time.  This past time I would just toss in heated charcoal every hour or so to keep the heat at 250 degrees.  Does pretty much everyone use the minion method?  Thanks


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## jirodriguez (Sep 29, 2010)

The minion method is for longer burn times, heat is controlled with your air intake vents. Idealy you get a minion going then once you are about 20° below your target temp you damp down the air intakes and let it steady out where you want it. After that leave it alone as much as possible, every time you open the door you dump all your heat and it takes 10-15 minutes for your smoker to recover from that, so if you open your door 4x you just added 1 hr to your cook time.


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## dick foster (Sep 29, 2010)

I'm not going to wade thought this entire thread ferreting out everything said but I will address what I think you did wrong item by item.

Rub the meat with mustard (optionable) and apply the rub. Put it in the fridge for over night or a little longer depending on when you're going to start cooking. I always try for at least over night.  No need to take the mustard off as it's only purpose is to help the rub stick to the meat so putting it on then taking it off before you rub does nothing at all. It does however make your grocer happy as he gets to sell you more mustard.

When you start getting the smoker up to temp say and hour or so before you plan to start the cook, take the meat out of the fridge and let it still for the chill to come off. Just always do those two things, take the meat out, start the fire, together and you'll be set.

Put a thermometer probe in the meat and put it in the smoker fat side up. In my view some sort of meat thermometer is almost a must, be it wired or wireless but something that will allow you to monitor the internal temp of the meat with the smoker closed and cooking.

I think opening the smoker every 45 minutes to spritz was probably the worst mistake you made. As soon as the smoker got up to temp you opened it and cooled it off again so it never got a chance for the meat to cook properly. The temp was like a see saw and in a constant state of flux. That's no way to cook anything. Remember "When you're lookin you ain't cookin" Put the meat in the smoker, close it and leave it closed until it's time to take it out. This is one of those cases where less in more so don't fiddle around or mess with it. Learn to relax as smoking requires both patience and time.   

Take the meat out when the thermometer says it's 190 or even 200 if you like, a matter of taste and preference.  Either cover it with a foil hat and let it set for 30 mins or more or wrap in foil and do the cooler gig until it's time to eat is OK. Whatever you do let it rest for at least 30min prior to pulling the meat.

Separate any fat left after the cook as you pull the meat. The fat helps it stay moist and it's easier to separate the fat after it's cooked anyway.

Do that next time and I bet it will turn out OK.

Remember that each piece of meat takes it's own time to cook depending on the amount of collagen fat etc. in it.  

I smoke at 225 but 250 is OK too but just remember that higher temps may tend to dry it out more unless you exercise more care. Like cooking, drying is a matter of time and temperature.


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## kevin0422 (Sep 29, 2010)

Some people say fat side up, fat side down, bone down for an hour then flip.  What do you recommend.  Should I use the minion method as well?


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## jirodriguez (Sep 29, 2010)

For pork butt it doesn't really matter to much on fat side up or down, there is so much fat marbeling the entire piece of meat that it will be juicy either way. As for the minion method - yes! The whole idea is to be able to set up your smoker and have it run for a long time at a steady temp without having to open it or stoke the fire. The length of time you get from a minion depends on how efficient your smoker is.


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## watlow (Sep 29, 2010)

New to site and if you dont have that headach from reading all the good advice and experience I do, but real good stuff. I remember doing two butts for pulled pork and both about the same size so I only checked temp of one and it was good about 190-195.Boy what a surprise when I went to pull them, one fine other, finished in oven. I learned from that experience always make sure of all temps, use good equipment and be patient And the 1.5 hours per # for base time works But temp tells the real story. When I first started smoking was embarresed to tell someone that I had made it but I stuck with it and it all came together.  LOL


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## dick foster (Oct 2, 2010)

Fat side up and for good reason. As the fat melts, it runs down over the pork coating it and that helps keep the meat moist while adding to the bark and flavor. If you put it fat side down all that fat just melts then drips into a drip pan adding nothing but making more mess to clean up and throw away.

If you don't want the fat, then think about doing pork tenderloin instead. It's good too but in a different way and it has a different flavor. It cooks much faster too. When I smoke pork tenderloin I actully add fat to it by wrapping it in bacon first. It;'s YUMMY that way!  The fat cooks off for the most part but it leaves that unmistable flavor behind.

Pulled pork is all about flavor and that flavor is largely due to the fat content of the meat in much the same way a prime steak is about the fat content and the even distribution of it thoughout the meat. That is how prime cuts are graded prime to begin with. It's not about just the lean meat but the fat and the lean in balance.  

With pulled pork, you can have the flavor but you can seperate and not eat the fat after the cooking is done. Some might call it having your cake and eathing it too.


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## dick foster (Oct 2, 2010)

Actually no. The Minion method has the fire burning though the fuel top down. As heat rises that keeps the temp lower and make the fire last longer.


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## richard morris (May 21, 2016)

Hi Kevin, Maybe I can shed some light. My first smoker was a charcoal Brinkman vertical as you have. Very unreliable for a heat source. Every time you open it to mop, you lose all the heat. Even keeping it shut, it has a tendency to cool off quickly. Also suffers from different temps at different levels. Having said that, the best way to really know if a piece of meat is ready, is by temperature. And since getting an accurate read is difficult, especially with bone-in items, then a dual probe thermometer is best. Try to make sure the probes are inserted in a meat , not near the bone. I will also point out, if you really cooked a 6 lb shoulder that length of time at the constant temp of 225, you would easily have reached temp. internal of 195 deg, all you need. Your problem is *the smoker*, and opening the smoker. When I had my brinkman, I drilled holes at 3 levels, one at the water pan, one at grill level and one on top of the dome. and mounted round dial thermometers, (cheap at Lowes) I would see a 30 degree difference sometimes from middle to top. So I mounted a couple brackets, and lowered a rack to just 2 inches above the water pan. 

Now lets talk meat. Butt, Shoulder, Picnic, all can be used for pulled pork, Bone in is preffered IMO, moister end results. Look for a cut with a nice fat cap. Look for one with fat marbeling if possible. Almost ALL pork products in the California area are Smithfield or Farmer John. I have used both, with always great results. Winco, Safeway, Smart and Final, Sams Club, Costco, Food Maxx, Vons, Ralphs, Lucky, Nobb Hills, all buy their pork products from the same master distributors. Period. I know, I was a butcher. Of course, you can get a lousy cut from anybody. It is up to you to check expiration dates and inspect for fat etc. But other than HOW the butcher trimmed it, it came from the same wholesale distributors. Inferior pork products go to commercial users, hot dogs, breakfast sausage, institutions, canners etc. Grocers all use top grade.
Since the Brinkmann has such temp issues, I solved it as I said above, but also realized that in 5 hours of smoking I had imparted enough smoke flavor by fat into my meat. So I would take my meat, wrap in foil and finish it in the oven for 2 or so hours at 250. (remember , it is not the time, it is the internal temp or 195 you need.) This method helps retain some moisture, yet still has plenty of smoke flavor. I hope this all help you, pulled pork is really easy when done correctly, it needs no baby sitting really. The fat cap will baste your beat as it cooks, no need to mop so much either.

Big Rich Morris


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## desertsubi (May 21, 2016)

Lol zombie much.. This was from back on 2010 dude





Richard Morris said:


> Hi Kevin, Maybe I can shed some light. My first smoker was a charcoal Brinkman vertical as you have. Very unreliable for a heat source. Every time you open it to mop, you lose all the heat. Even keeping it shut, it has a tendency to cool off quickly. Also suffers from different temps at different levels. Having said that, the best way to really know if a piece of meat is ready, is by temperature. And since getting an accurate read is difficult, especially with bone-in items, then a dual probe thermometer is best. Try to make sure the probes are inserted in a meat , not near the bone. I will also point out, if you really cooked a 6 lb shoulder that length of time at the constant temp of 225, you would easily have reached temp. internal of 195 deg, all you need. Your problem is *the smoker*, and opening the smoker. When I had my brinkman, I drilled holes at 3 levels, one at the water pan, one at grill level and one on top of the dome. and mounted round dial thermometers, (cheap at Lowes) I would see a 30 degree difference sometimes from middle to top. So I mounted a couple brackets, and lowered a rack to just 2 inches above the water pan.
> 
> 
> Now lets talk meat. Butt, Shoulder, Picnic, all can be used for pulled pork, Bone in is preffered IMO, moister end results. Look for a cut with a nice fat cap. Look for one with fat marbeling if possible. Almost ALL pork products in the California area are Smithfield or Farmer John. I have used both, with always great results. Winco, Safeway, Smart and Final, Sams Club, Costco, Food Maxx, Vons, Ralphs, Lucky, Nobb Hills, all buy their pork products from the same master distributors. Period. I know, I was a butcher. Of course, you can get a lousy cut from anybody. It is up to you to check expiration dates and inspect for fat etc. But other than HOW the butcher trimmed it, it came from the same wholesale distributors. Inferior pork products go to commercial users, hot dogs, breakfast sausage, institutions, canners etc. Grocers all use top grade.
> ...



Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## tjdcorona (Jun 18, 2016)

I agree- the bone mustve been hit - but I don't understand 9 hrs - and still raw? HEAT issue there.


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## chorizodahitman (Jun 19, 2016)

The first butt I did on my Treager I followed their suggestions for a 9 hour cook time. It was cooked, but was not the pull I had hoped for. Had to do a chopped pork instead. After that I started doing my own thing and smoking my butts for 12-15 hours. With the fat in the pork, you really do not need to mop it that regularly. I will use a turkey baster and wet it down every 2-3 hours. Keep trying and don't get frustrated.


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## chorizodahitman (Jun 19, 2016)

I started off with a Brinkman as well. Miss that thing! The temps are very hard to control on it, so I moded mine out by replacing the charcoal bin with an electric attachment and by placing a welders blanket over it during my smokes. With my Brinkman, I would do 15-18 hours for a butt, depending on the time of year.


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## tjdcorona (Jun 26, 2016)

I still use my Brinkman from time to time, but its in retirement and for camping now.


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## mike johnson (Jun 26, 2016)

I use cash and carry to buy all my meats. I believe they are called smart and final there. All there meat is restraint quality and cheaper then any grocery store.


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## tjdcorona (Jun 26, 2016)

Thanks - I will be heading there next week


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## tjdcorona (Jun 26, 2016)

Yes - I like that place too.


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## stickyfingers (Jun 26, 2016)

Well, you certainly have received a lot of good advice. It sounds like your method was good and I agree you should check the temp in a few locations to be sure of the temp. I would also add the moping every 45 min is probably not the best idea as it help effect your chamber temp affecting the duration of your cook time. If you choose to mop, keep it to a minimum, pork butts will stay moist just by the rendering fat.


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