# What Size for Snack Sticks?



## mneeley490

I've made some caseless sticks with my Cabela's Jerky Blaster, but now I want to give cased ones a try. So I will be buying a long nozzle for the Blaster, and some collegen casings.

My question is, what is the normal size you guys make? From reading the threads here, it seems to really vary. I want something akin to the store-bought size. It's also tough converting fractions to millimeters, thanks very much manufacturers. I'm thinking, do I use a 3/8" nozzle and 21 mm casings?


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## rgautheir20420

There are usually 3 sizes for the snack sticks and they are 17 mm, 19 mm, and 21 mm. I usually see the 19 mm ones being used, but I've got a pack of the 21's at home. Any of these would work just fine to produce a good snack stick.


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## mneeley490

The nozzles I see for sale are 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". I'm assuming 3/8" would work with those, or not?

Also, I use 95/5 beef for jerky, but it appears most folks go fattier with sticks?


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## rgautheir20420

I picked up the 3/8 LEM stainless tube from a member here and that should fit mine. Can't speak to it fitting anything else though it is pretty slender. 

It all depends on how you like your jerky as to what mix you use. I've seen people using as low as 75/25, but personally I wouldn't go any fattier than 80/20.


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## WaterinHoleBrew

mneeley490 said:


> The nozzles I see for sale are 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". I'm assuming 3/8" would work with those, or not?
> 
> Also, I use 95/5 beef for jerky, but it appears most folks go fattier with sticks?



Just my 2 cents, but I do 1/2" sticks !  I've done beef (80/20) and these turned out great... I've also done venison with 15% beef fat mixed in, they were good but I think next time I'll stick with the 20% !  IMHO, the 5% did make a difference !


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## boardpuller

I use 17 mm and a 3/8 tube, mix 80/20 and 90 somethingfor a drier stick


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## chef willie

I'd go with the 95/5 for the few extra dollars spent. I've done the 80/20 and even 73/27 (pure crap IMHO) and wasn't liking them. My last batch I used 30MM red casings from Waltons.....now, that's a snack stick. Willie

http://www.waltonsinc.com/p-581-30mm-red-collagen-casings.aspx


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## themule69

I use a 3/8 tube with my 5 LB Lem when I use casings 19mm. When I do naked I use a 1/2" tube. You can use what you have or what you can find. their are no rules. I prefer 80/20 ground chuck. The last time I used 80/20 ground beef and could tell it was of lesser quality.

Happy smoken.

David


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## boykjo

17mm is about the diameter of a dime like a slim jim. 19mm is about the diameter of a nickel like a beef stick with a piece of cheese with it. Most people use the 19mm. those 17's make for a lot of stuffing. 21mm's..... well about the thickness of a Oscar Mayer

Joe


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## rgautheir20420

boykjo said:


> 17mm is about the diameter of a dime like a slim jim. 19mm is about the diameter of a nickel like a beef stick with a piece of cheese with it. Most people use the 19mm. those 17's make for a lot of stuffing. 21mm's..... well about the thickness of a Oscar Mayer
> 
> Joe


That's very helpful. I can work with visual aids


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## crankybuzzard

19mm is almost the same size as 3/4". (.748031")

I have the 3/8" tube and it works well for all snack sticks, however, be patient!  When you first use it, you're going to think that your meat batter has turned into epoxy, it's slow going at times with the 3/8" tube.  Coarse meat grinds make it even tougher.

For snack stick case diameter, my family and friends have decided that the 19mm is about right, and I have as well.  They smoke easily, cook fairly fast, and shrink up well for a dried look.

Just my $0.02.

Have fun!


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## mneeley490

Thanks for the visuals! Yes, I think I'll be going with either the 17mm or 19mm.


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## dward51

I would not go with the 17mm.  I would go 19mm or even 21mm.  Remember, the stick will shrink in size as it is smoked/heated or dehydrated.  Also the 17mm casings are a pain to get on even the 3/8" stainless tubes. I also like to stuff my snack stick casings pretty tight for the same reason.  The 21mm is the easiest to work with IMO.

As to 90% lean beef, I would go 80/20 or add some fat to what you have.  Lean meat tends to be dry in snack sticks. You want the fat for that mouth feel you are expecting.  Just don't heat them over too high a temp as they will fat out which is also no good.


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## daveomak

I make sticks from the 21mm....  they are perfect...  and a lot easier than the smaller casings....  IMO....


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## boykjo

boykjo said:


> 17mm is about the diameter of a dime like a slim jim. 19mm is about the diameter of a nickel like a beef stick with a piece of cheese with it. Most people use the 19mm. those 17's make for a lot of stuffing. 21mm's..... well about the thickness of a Oscar Mayer
> 
> Joe


My diameters are what the finished product will be after they have been cooked.without binders and extra water using beef and pork... Extra water and binders will make them larger and plumper

19mm or nickel sticks....lol













20141103_200210.jpg



__ boykjo
__ Jan 2, 2015


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## mneeley490

I guess I'll see what my butcher has in stock. I'll probably try the 19 for the first run, or the 21 if he doesn't have it.


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## BGKYSmoker

I use 15 to 19mm

for casing sizes 13-15mm you will need a 1/4" tube

3/8" tube for 16mm casing

7/16 tube for 16-21mm

straight stuffing tubes with little or no flare at the end.


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## boykjo

13-15's are insane...lol


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## reinhard

I would go with 22 mm for snack sticks.  Here are the general guidelines for types of sausage for sheep casings.

18 to 20 mm   snack or beer sticks

20 mm to 22 mm  breakfast small link sausage

22 mm to 24 mm  small hot dogs

24 mm to 26 mm  larger wieners [bockwurst style for example]

Then of course it's personal preference.  Reinhard


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## mneeley490

You guys are a wealth of information. Thanks!


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## mneeley490

Okay guys, one more question. What IT do you go to and why? I've searched and found anywhere from 152° to 165°.

I bought a 3/8" nozzle and 19mm casings from LEM. So I now have my sticks stuffed, and in the fridge. Will smoke tomorrow using Bearcarver's guide. I'm using an 80/20 mix of ground beef and the second half of the seasonings & cure from my High Mountain Pepper & Garlic mix.

I would have smoked them today, but it was way too windy. And besides, I was busy suffering from coronary thrombosis while watching the Seahawks/Packers game today.


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## boykjo

USDA requires all ground meat be brought to a IT of 160 degrees. Its not clear what ground meat IT should be with cure. Curing salts are used in food preservation to prevent or slow spoilage by bacteria or fungus. Through experience and what the norm is over the years in sausage making most take the internal temp to 152 with cure. I like to make sure all my sausage has reached 154 so I so I take my sausage to 158 to 160 to make sure all of it has reached 154. Some places when probed will have a few degrees difference.

Joe


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## chewmeister

boykjo said:


> USDA requires all ground meat be brought to a IT of 160 degrees. Its not clear what ground meat IT should be with cure. Curing salts are used in food preservation to prevent or slow spoilage by bacteria or fungus. Through experience and what the norm is over the years in sausage making most take the internal temp to 152 with cure. I like to make sure all my sausage has reached 154 so I so I take my sausage to 158 to 160 to make sure all of it has reached 154. Some places when probed will have a few degrees difference.
> 
> Joe


There are varying opinions as to cured and cured and fermented sausages with regards to IT. Most info I've read suggests an IT of 152 for most cured sausage, but I've also seen a suggested IT of 140 for some fermented cured sausage. An example is the summer sausage recipe in Marianski's book.


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## mfreel

3/8" tube will allow for the 21mm casings to fit on them without having to slide them on inch by inch.  That's what I use.

I will use 80/20 with at least 4 cups water per 25 lbs.  Usually about a cup more.  

I use my 5 lb stuffer for sticks.  I tried using the 15 lb stuffer, but I kept blowing the gasket.  Too much pressure for that little 3/8" tube.

Try 19mm, too.  They work but I prefer the 21mm.  

Put your extra casings in a zip-lock in the fridge.


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## mneeley490

mfreel said:


> 3/8" tube will allow for the 21mm casings to fit on them without having to slide them on inch by inch.  That's what I use.


So I discovered. I thought it would fit on there as is, but no. Oh, well. This is a first attempt, and I'll see what the 19mm look like when done. If I don't like it, I'll switch to 21mm next time. I guess if I'm seriously going to get into the sausage side of things, I'll eventually have to trade in my jerky blaster for a real press stuffer.

Ok, the sticks are in the smoker, and I have the AMNPS loaded with 70/30 apple and pecan for this first smoke.

Pics to follow, tonight.


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## driedstick

21's work for me and I take mine to 152*IT and all my sticks have Cure#1 in them. This batch I did not use a Binder, usually I put 1 cup of NFDM in per 5lbs just forgot on this batch from this weekend. 













IMG_20150117_082102861.jpg



__ driedstick
__ Jan 17, 2015






Good luck and let us know how they come out. 

DS


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## mfreel

IMHO, I take them to 165.  I use a cure mix, too.  I think it gives them a more "stick" look rather than a "hot dog" look.  I want them a little drier.  I also like to ensure that everything is completely done.  Just personal preference.


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## mneeley490

High Mountain has a cure; doesn't say what kind, but I assume it's #1 or similar. It's yellow, not pink. The instructions say it also acts as a binder.

The jerky I made last time didn't last long enough to see if it would preserve well.

I'm doing just a little over 5 lbs on the sticks, and I don't see them lasting long, either.


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## mneeley490

And done!

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/176463/first-cased-snack-sticks#post_1300453


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## mneeley490

Can someone tell me if the ice water bath does anything other than cool the sticks quickly?

Since it was so cold today, I omitted it, and just left the door fully open. They were cooled down in about 5 minutes, and then bagged and packed into the fridge. Seemed counterproductive to get them all wet, and then have to dry them off all over again.


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## crankybuzzard

You're good


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## dirtsailor2003

mneeley490 said:


> Can someone tell if the ice water bath does anything other than cool the sticks quickly?
> Since it was so cold today, I omitted it, and just left the door fully open. They were cooled down in about 5 minutes, and then bagged and packed into the fridge. Seemed counterproductive to get them all wet, and then have to dry them off all over again.



It's my understanding it is to get them to stop cooking and cooled down quickly. 

With the cold temps I did the same thing. Just hung them in my garage over night.


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## mneeley490

Okay, thanks. Just wasn't sure if the water was also supposed to change the texture of the casings, or what.


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## boykjo

The water bath will soften the casings a little.............


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## driedstick

Sticks I never water bath, just lay on counter and let bloom then to brown paper bag and in fridge for a couple days before vac packing, I do how ever water bath my summer sausages. Just things I have learned from this site.

DS


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## mfreel

Niiiiiice.  Do you need my address?

Never water bath sticks.


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## foamheart

driedstick said:


> Sticks I never water bath, just lay on counter and let bloom then to brown paper bag and in fridge for a couple days before vac packing, I do how ever water bath my summer sausages. Just things I have learned from this site.
> 
> DS


Grinder this year, vac-sealer next year! This hobby is getting expensive! LOL

Looks great DS!


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## mneeley490

Foamheart said:


> Grinder this year, vac-sealer next year! This hobby is getting expensive! LOL
> 
> Looks great DS!


Ha! You got that right. I had to buy a new vacuum sealer last month when my old one broke. Now I'm starting to look around for a LEM-type stuffer...


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## foamheart

mneeley490 said:


> Ha! You got that right. I had to buy a new vacuum sealer last month when my old one broke. Now I'm starting to look around for a LEM-type stuffer...


Yes and I am hoping this doesn't start a vicious cycle. About the time you get it all, the first item will croak.

Where are all the estate sales that have complete processing set ups for sale for free?

Friend was all excited when he called, he'd found me a hobart at a good price. ROFLMAO It was a commercial floor mixer, Probably a 25 to 30 gal,  6 foot tall at least, the whisk was bigger than a medicene ball, but it had a grinder attachment...>LOL I think it came off a Navy ship in refit at Pasagoula.


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## driedstick

mneeley490 said:


> Ha! You got that right. I had to buy a new vacuum sealer last month when my old one broke. Now I'm starting to look around for a LEM-type stuffer...


I have the lem 5lb and love it but if I had to try it again I would go grizzly or Northern tool and give them a try, A LOT of people here say they are the same 

When we did them sticks this last weekend, by the time we mixed all 4 different flavors (5th was already mixed and curing) and stuffed all 50lbs it only took us about 3 - 3 1/2hrs to get r done. 

I went with the smaller dia. stuffing tube this time and got a lot more casing on there and put food grade grease around the rubber seal of the stuffer a couple of times and boy what a world of difference. 

Good luck and nice sticks mneeley!! 

DS


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## mneeley490

I've made some caseless sticks with my Cabela's Jerky Blaster, but now I want to give cased ones a try. So I will be buying a long nozzle for the Blaster, and some collegen casings.

My question is, what is the normal size you guys make? From reading the threads here, it seems to really vary. I want something akin to the store-bought size. It's also tough converting fractions to millimeters, thanks very much manufacturers. I'm thinking, do I use a 3/8" nozzle and 21 mm casings?


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## rgautheir20420

There are usually 3 sizes for the snack sticks and they are 17 mm, 19 mm, and 21 mm. I usually see the 19 mm ones being used, but I've got a pack of the 21's at home. Any of these would work just fine to produce a good snack stick.


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## mneeley490

The nozzles I see for sale are 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". I'm assuming 3/8" would work with those, or not?

Also, I use 95/5 beef for jerky, but it appears most folks go fattier with sticks?


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## rgautheir20420

I picked up the 3/8 LEM stainless tube from a member here and that should fit mine. Can't speak to it fitting anything else though it is pretty slender. 

It all depends on how you like your jerky as to what mix you use. I've seen people using as low as 75/25, but personally I wouldn't go any fattier than 80/20.


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## WaterinHoleBrew

mneeley490 said:


> The nozzles I see for sale are 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". I'm assuming 3/8" would work with those, or not?
> 
> Also, I use 95/5 beef for jerky, but it appears most folks go fattier with sticks?



Just my 2 cents, but I do 1/2" sticks !  I've done beef (80/20) and these turned out great... I've also done venison with 15% beef fat mixed in, they were good but I think next time I'll stick with the 20% !  IMHO, the 5% did make a difference !


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## boardpuller

I use 17 mm and a 3/8 tube, mix 80/20 and 90 somethingfor a drier stick


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## chef willie

I'd go with the 95/5 for the few extra dollars spent. I've done the 80/20 and even 73/27 (pure crap IMHO) and wasn't liking them. My last batch I used 30MM red casings from Waltons.....now, that's a snack stick. Willie

http://www.waltonsinc.com/p-581-30mm-red-collagen-casings.aspx


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## themule69

I use a 3/8 tube with my 5 LB Lem when I use casings 19mm. When I do naked I use a 1/2" tube. You can use what you have or what you can find. their are no rules. I prefer 80/20 ground chuck. The last time I used 80/20 ground beef and could tell it was of lesser quality.

Happy smoken.

David


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## boykjo

17mm is about the diameter of a dime like a slim jim. 19mm is about the diameter of a nickel like a beef stick with a piece of cheese with it. Most people use the 19mm. those 17's make for a lot of stuffing. 21mm's..... well about the thickness of a Oscar Mayer

Joe


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## rgautheir20420

boykjo said:


> 17mm is about the diameter of a dime like a slim jim. 19mm is about the diameter of a nickel like a beef stick with a piece of cheese with it. Most people use the 19mm. those 17's make for a lot of stuffing. 21mm's..... well about the thickness of a Oscar Mayer
> 
> Joe


That's very helpful. I can work with visual aids


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## crankybuzzard

19mm is almost the same size as 3/4". (.748031")

I have the 3/8" tube and it works well for all snack sticks, however, be patient!  When you first use it, you're going to think that your meat batter has turned into epoxy, it's slow going at times with the 3/8" tube.  Coarse meat grinds make it even tougher.

For snack stick case diameter, my family and friends have decided that the 19mm is about right, and I have as well.  They smoke easily, cook fairly fast, and shrink up well for a dried look.

Just my $0.02.

Have fun!


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## mneeley490

Thanks for the visuals! Yes, I think I'll be going with either the 17mm or 19mm.


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## dward51

I would not go with the 17mm.  I would go 19mm or even 21mm.  Remember, the stick will shrink in size as it is smoked/heated or dehydrated.  Also the 17mm casings are a pain to get on even the 3/8" stainless tubes. I also like to stuff my snack stick casings pretty tight for the same reason.  The 21mm is the easiest to work with IMO.

As to 90% lean beef, I would go 80/20 or add some fat to what you have.  Lean meat tends to be dry in snack sticks. You want the fat for that mouth feel you are expecting.  Just don't heat them over too high a temp as they will fat out which is also no good.


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## daveomak

I make sticks from the 21mm....  they are perfect...  and a lot easier than the smaller casings....  IMO....


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## boykjo

boykjo said:


> 17mm is about the diameter of a dime like a slim jim. 19mm is about the diameter of a nickel like a beef stick with a piece of cheese with it. Most people use the 19mm. those 17's make for a lot of stuffing. 21mm's..... well about the thickness of a Oscar Mayer
> 
> Joe


My diameters are what the finished product will be after they have been cooked.without binders and extra water using beef and pork... Extra water and binders will make them larger and plumper

19mm or nickel sticks....lol













20141103_200210.jpg



__ boykjo
__ Jan 2, 2015


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## mneeley490

I guess I'll see what my butcher has in stock. I'll probably try the 19 for the first run, or the 21 if he doesn't have it.


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## BGKYSmoker

I use 15 to 19mm

for casing sizes 13-15mm you will need a 1/4" tube

3/8" tube for 16mm casing

7/16 tube for 16-21mm

straight stuffing tubes with little or no flare at the end.


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## boykjo

13-15's are insane...lol


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## reinhard

I would go with 22 mm for snack sticks.  Here are the general guidelines for types of sausage for sheep casings.

18 to 20 mm   snack or beer sticks

20 mm to 22 mm  breakfast small link sausage

22 mm to 24 mm  small hot dogs

24 mm to 26 mm  larger wieners [bockwurst style for example]

Then of course it's personal preference.  Reinhard


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## mneeley490

You guys are a wealth of information. Thanks!


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