# Hard Cider



## wildcatter

I made cider last year, and it was disappointing. I was expecting it to be crisp and sweet like the commercial stuff- it wasn't at all. I let it ferment completely out, primed with corn sugar and bottled it just like beer. How do you keep it a little sweet?


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## woodcutter

Bump


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## vaquero01

I make cider every year. I keg it in Cornies....because bottling sucks. Two questions...what kind of apples are you using and what kind of yeast are you using? Not all apples are created equal when making cider, and the easiest and friendliest yeast to use is plain old champagne yeast.


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## wildcatter

I bought fresh, unpasteurized cider from the Amish. It's fantastic fresh, I figured it would only get better with alcohol. I used ale yeast. I'll try champagne yeast with a gallon.


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## vaquero01

If I were a betting man (and I am) I'd lay odds the yeast is the culprit here. I have a 5 gallon batch going now with Pasteur Champagne Yeast. If everything works the way it's supposed to, I should end up with an Alcohol Content of about 17-18%.


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## bama bbq

vaquero01 said:


> ..because bottling sucks...



+1. Yes it does.


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## link

vaquero01 said:


> If I were a betting man (and I am) I'd lay odds the yeast is the culprit here. I have a 5 gallon batch going now with Pasteur Champagne Yeast. If everything works the way it's supposed to, I should end up with an Alcohol Content of about 17-18%.




What is the process for making hard Cider. I would love to give this a try.


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## millerk0486

Wildcatter said:


> I made cider last year, and it was disappointing. I was expecting it to be crisp and sweet like the commercial stuff- it wasn't at all. I let it ferment completely out, primed with corn sugar and bottled it just like beer. How do you keep it a little sweet?


I am in the midst of my first attempt at making hard cider. I intend on adding some splenda to sweeten it up since sugar will get devoured by the yeast. I am still in the fermenting process and am shocked at how long it has taken... been about 5-6 weeks now... I thought it would only be 2-2.5 weeks. I have also heard that to get that Redds commercial taste, people add concentrated apple flavoring in the end along with the splenda.


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## millerk0486

link said:


> vaquero01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were a betting man (and I am) I'd lay odds the yeast is the culprit here. I have a 5 gallon batch going now with Pasteur Champagne Yeast. If everything works the way it's supposed to, I should end up with an Alcohol Content of about 17-18%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the process for making hard Cider. I would love to give this a try.
Click to expand...

I have a post on a recipe that I am following. This is my first attempt, so i don't know what the end result will be yet. Below is a link to what I am doing with pictures.
 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/149057/first-home-brewed-hard-cider#post_1058914


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## vaquero01

Link, If you'd like to PM me, I can send you a couple links for basic recipes. Honestly though it's about the easiest thing in the world to ferment. The favorite way for me is to take two 5 gallon carboys (5 gallon water jugs that go on the water coolers in offices). Fill one with fresh pressed cider, add yeast, I usually add a half cup brown sugar and (the wildcat in the operation here) a half cup of local honey, put stopper on with air lock and let set two weeks. After two weeks you will notice the fermentation has slowed down and the bubbling has nearly stopped by now. Siphon from first Carboy into the second at this point. While siphoning I usually take a little test and see if it's sweet enough, if needed add a little stevia to it. If your not familiar Stevia is an all natural sugar alternative. I actually grow it in my garden. Anyways you want to use that instead of sugar because the yeast won't eat it and start the fermenting process all over again. Once it's in the second carboy put the stopper and airlock back on and let it age for another 3 weeks. This is where I keg mine, if your bottling I suggest growlers, again because bottling sucks!

Good luck and enjoy.


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## link

millerk0486 said:


> I have a post on a recipe that I am following. This is my first attempt, so i don't know what the end result will be yet. Below is a link to what I am doing with pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/149057/first-home-brewed-hard-cider#post_1058914



That looks awesome thanks.


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## ej0rge

Most if not all ale and wine yeasts will result in a dry cider that has to be filtered or pasteurized or stabilized with sorbate and k-meta before back-sweetening. If sweet was what you wanted.

That, or cold crash and then kill off or remove the yeast using any of the same methods before it goes dry. Otherwise you have to keep it under refrigeration.

Champagne type yeast in particular will result in a very dry cider. It can go near 20% alcohol. Most ale and wine yeasts will do over 15%.

Some people have reported good results using wyeast sweet mead yeast in cider. Haven't tried it myself.

. :Sent by pneumatic tubes


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## vaquero01

I have not tried the mead yeast myself either BUT, that sounds like a heck of an idea seeing how I like to use honey as a sweetener. As far as killing off the yeast, I have never pasteurized or hit mine with any additives, with that said though, I have a barn that I keep mine in after secondary racking....and I don't tend to leave IN until early November, temps most likely kill off any wild yeast strains that may persist. By the time I get home to New Orleans with my kegs, it's happy tapping time. Have never had a bad batch yet in 8 years.


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## ej0rge

Yeah, just that the question was how to make it sweet. I'm pretty sure the commercial brands are filtering. Either after a cold crash when fermentation is at the right point or after it goes dry and before sweetening.

Homebrewers can filter too, but the initial investment isn't trivial, especially if you aren't already kegging.

K-sorbate and k-meta are flavors people are used to in juice and wine, so that works for a lot of people.

. :Sent by pneumatic tubes


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## shorte2326

I had a neighbor that use to make apple jack every year a barrel at a time. He used sugar, yeast raisins, and corn flakes. Don't have the full recipie he died a few years back. This was the best I have ever tasted


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## vaquero01

After re-reading the original post, it very well could be when the sugar is being added as well. If corn sugar is being added during the initial fermentation most of it is being eaten by the yeast to produce the alcohol and very little is left for sweetening. I have no experience using corn sugar for back sweetening and will ask around for any input.


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## wildcatter

What is cold crash?


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## vaquero01

Cold Crashing is putting your cider into the fridge or outside on a cold night to kill off any remaining yeast. Mostly used when you dont use a hydrometer to track when your carbonation as quit. It's kind of a safety net for beginner that could have bottled before all the fermenting is done. It will keep the carbonation fizz but kill off any remaining yeasts so when you finally pop the top (if you bottle) you dont get a geyser.


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## jeepdiver

Cold crashing wont kill the yeast.  You can still get bottle bombs if you cold crash and then the beer warms up again


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## vaquero01

My apologies, Jeep is right, that certainly can happen. I am definitely wrong here. I have never had it happen, but than again (I may have mentioned before) I don't bottle. Cold crashing, suspends the fermentation...it does not totally kill the reaction off, it also helps clarify (clear) the cider.


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## wildcatter

I've thought about bottling it when it's perfect, monitoring closely for the right amount of carbonation and pasteurizing it.


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## dirtsailor2003

ej0rge said:


> Most if not all ale and wine yeasts will result in a dry cider that has to be filtered or pasteurized or stabilized with sorbate and k-meta before back-sweetening. If sweet was what you wanted.
> 
> That, or cold crash and then kill off or remove the yeast using any of the same methods before it goes dry. Otherwise you have to keep it under refrigeration.
> 
> Champagne type yeast in particular will result in a very dry cider. It can go near 20% alcohol. Most ale and wine yeasts will do over 15%.
> 
> Some people have reported good results using wyeast sweet mead yeast in cider. Haven't tried it myself.
> 
> . :Sent by pneumatic tubes


This is exactly what we do for sweeter cider, when we want to. We like a drier cider so normally don't. We use champagne yeast to get it as dry as we can. Typically rack twice and depending on the size of the batch either bottle or put into a 1 gallon jug. Using an auto siphon or the mini auto siphon is the way to go.


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## atio

I'm on my 3rd attempt at making EdWort's apfelwein (which is basically the same, I just used apple juice instead of cider) and in reading the threads over at homebrewtalk and personal experience, you need to let it sit for quite a while for the flavor to come back.  The first batch I made I opened a bottle two months after making it and it was pretty bad.  I let it sit for six more months and opened another bottle and it was much sweeter.  Someone I know made it a few years back and lost a bottle behind a bookshelf for a couple years and when he opened it, he said it was the best wine he's ever had.

Just food for thought...


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## jeepdiver

Atio said:


> I'm on my 3rd attempt at making EdWort's apfelwein (which is basically the same, I just used apple juice instead of cider) and in reading the threads over at homebrewtalk and personal experience, you need to let it sit for quite a while for the flavor to come back.  The first batch I made I opened a bottle two months after making it and it was pretty bad.  I let it sit for six more months and opened another bottle and it was much sweeter.  Someone I know made it a few years back and lost a bottle behind a bookshelf for a couple years and when he opened it, he said it was the best wine he's ever had.
> 
> Just food for thought...


I usually leave my cider for at least 4 months before I keg.  Got a batch now that needs to be kegged that was done in April, that I haven't had a chance to get to.  The apple flavor will come back, but not sure I would say it gets sweeter.  I also use cider yeast, and while it still makes it dry, I think it leaves a little more flavor than champing/wine yeast


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## millerk0486

JeepDiver, how many times do you rack it?


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## jeepdiver

Just once into the keg (or bottling bucket).  Ive nevet had any off flavors from it


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