# New Iberico Batch



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Ok... 

Trying a small weekend batch with some meat I froze a  while back... 

Using White Pastures Iberico - 7.5 pounds plus 2.5 pounds of Iberico fat ..  

Meanwhile , noodling  that I might just do pepper and garlic to keep it straight forward as opposed to really spicy .


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Dicing up fat separate from grind ..


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Ground and mixed with 13 grams instacure #2 and 110 grams salt .. 

Into the walk in overnight ..


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Will be using 007 culture, 

and this is my first time I’m able to take advise on sugar adjustment.
Recipe calls for 24 grams dextrose . 2/3 cup of wine that I’ll likely round up to a cup, ..


----------



## smokerjim (Apr 18, 2021)

Looks like it's going to be some good stuff even though I never heard of it.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

I highly recommend using the metric system for making sausages and salami. The grams are in percentages so it is easy to scale up and easy to add or subtract to dial in the flavor profile where you want it.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Will be using 007 culture,
> 
> and this is my first time I’m able to take advise on sugar adjustment.
> Recipe calls for 24 grams dextrose . 2/3 cup of wine that I’ll likely round up to a cup, ..


That's 24g dextrose/4540g meat = 0.529% dextrose and if you add a cup of wine, that is roughly 240mL of wine. (240mL/4540)  X 1000g. = 52.86mL/kg. of mince. That would be a tad high as it is not recommended to use more than 50mL/kg. of liquid when making salami.

5.29g/kg. dextrose plus 52.86mL wine will likely drop the pH under 5...


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

Did you take a pH reading of the raw meat? If it is up near pH6 then you might be OK with that much dextrose and wine. Typically 2-3g. dextrose per kg. is recommended with B-LC-007.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

I'll be following the progress of this one... with just black pepper and garlic, should be just a basic sopresatta and the flavor of the pork should really shine...all those flavor compounds should really come through!


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Hmmm- what if I wanted more wine and less dextrose ?


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

I’ll check ph first and report back shortly ..


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Hmmm- what if I wanted more wine and less dextrose ?


Could do that, but 50mL/Kg. max on the wine. Just the wine alone will likely drop the pH 0.35-0.45.. so if your initial pH is around 5.8, then after the wine addition you'll be around 5.45-5.35. Won't need much dextrose to drop below 5.2... 1 -1.5gram/kg. should be enough.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

looks like we are at 5.75 pre-


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

if you use 50mL wine then 1 gram dextrose/kg. should be plenty to drop below 5.2....


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

I used 7 grams so not far off .


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Nice wine for sausage too!  Only the best for this Iberico ..


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

And used a little less than the 250 wine


----------



## mneeley490 (Apr 18, 2021)

Sausages look great so far, but I have to say that I love that rail running outside the SS counter!


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Tagged and ready to tent ..


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

Wife’s writing is better than mine by a long shot ..


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

by the way thanks for the help with sugar levels ! Appreciate the consulting !!! Let's see how it turns out!


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

mneeley490 said:


> Sausages look great so far, but I have to say that I love that rail running outside the SS counter!



I'll have to do a kitchen thread at some point.


----------



## mneeley490 (Apr 18, 2021)

Yes, I saw this thread before the 500 lbs of meat one. 
Would love a virtual tour of your kitchen!


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

How much does each salame weigh? If it's more than 1.5kg. each then I would recommend trussing so the weight of the salami does not pull the casing through the knot once the end of the casing dries and shrinks...


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

You might have not zoomed in on the tags but weight is between 700 and 1100 grams.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

One more tip-
Try to get the meat tight in the casing. If the casing is loose, then the meat paste will sag to the bottom of the casing and leave an air gap at the top under the casing as the meat sags. This will allow bad mold to bloom under the casing and that could cause problems..


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> One more tip-
> Try to get the meat tight in the casing. If the casing is loose, then the meat paste will sag to the bottom of the casing and leave an air gap at the top under the casing as the meat sags. This will allow bad mold to bloom under the casing and that could cause problems..



thanks very much for the tip - I think I’ve done that .. appreciate you looking over my amateur effort !!


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 18, 2021)

A few more pics


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 18, 2021)

A couple looked a little loose to me...could be an illusion though. Long as you got them tight, shouldn't have problems.

Only other tip I can offer is to make them as uniform dia. as possible from one end of the salami to the other. This will aid in even drying. The Italians use the first wrap of the truss to tighten the salami so they can smooth it down by hand to give a uniform diameter. The way to do this is to half hitch around one end then wrap around the other end (no hitches) and back up to the end with the hitches...hitch it again couple times. Then you can smooth it down to a uniform shape and thickness.

This is the reason why salamis are trussed. uniform shape for even drying, and so the hanging string will hold. Will also aid in keeping the salami bind tight and prevent gas pockets from forming.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 22, 2021)

Well, not so great news on this batch. 

The ph isn’t dropping much. I can only attribute it to the lower amounts of 007 and dextrose . I haven’t done anything else different. 

I guess it’s a throw away effort tomorrow if it hasn’t gone down .


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 22, 2021)

I think you might be premature in that decision.  Many times (according to my reading), a dry cure slow ferment Italian style salami will not reach 5.3 pH using T-SPX.  The cure and the reduction in water activity produce a product that is safe to eat despite not having attained a low pH.  I'm not sure what culture you used for this batch, but no need to rush into dumping it.  See what others have to say.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 22, 2021)

Thanks for the reply - I’ve used 007 in this batch ... it’s supposed to be pretty fast - my last batches using it were ready in 36-48 hours - this has been twice that amount of time  so far.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 22, 2021)

First two days temps were 70 degrees and I adjusted higher to 75 for last two day.


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 22, 2021)

Weird.  What was your fermentation temperature?  Are you at 96 hours now?

Here's three pages out of "The Art of Making Fermented Sausages" by the Marianski Bros.  regarding slow fermentation and pH drop.  You should buy the book if you have not yet done so.

Edit - Since you have the book, I deleted the pages to avoid copywrite infringement.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 22, 2021)

Thanks - I’ve got all the books..


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 22, 2021)

Head scratcher.  I don't have any knowledge of 007 culture, so I'll just watch along and see what others think.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 22, 2021)

Bactoferm B-LC-007 (50g per 330 lbs.) - Craft Butchers' Pantry
					






					butcherspantry.com


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 22, 2021)

I like the description of the culture.  When the manufacturer says it's better than T-SPX, then we should probably believe them. 

I re-read the thread and I'm not entirely sure of how much dextrose you added.  There was a lot of back and forth on that and the wine.  I don't think reducing the amount of culture added had anything to do with the lack of pH drop though.  The manufacturer's recommended inoculation weight/Kg ensures that more than enough culture is in place to quickly out-compete bad bugs and sets them up for a good/quick ferment. 

I don't have a lot of experience yet but I've been sticking with a minimum of  .3% dextrose or dextrose  + sucrose addition to drop the pH quickly down into the low 5s pH, regardless of my other ingredients (like chili powder, wine, etc.)


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm really bummed to think that all those wonderful ingredients you used in this recipe are going to get trashed.  You must be a bit heartbroken.   I would be.  Very sorry - that's a lot of hard work both procuring the ingredients and then prepping them.   

I'm wondering if there's some way you might have inactivated the culture.  I did that once with yeast for bread by adding the yeast to a bit of water/sugar and giving it a blast in the microwave to warm it up.  (Bad bread that day).  If the culture isn't maintained at freezing temps between batches, it is only viable for six weeks or so.  Only you will know if there might be some other contributing factor.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 22, 2021)

Don't toss it just yet...hang it in the chamber and let it ride. I've had some salamis that reached 5.45 and they turned out fine. Remember that the acid drop is just one safety hurdle... they lower the drop, the stronger the hurdle. many Italian salamis do not drop below 5.5.. 

Let 'em dry...you'll know when you cut it open at 30-35% whether to toss them or not....

Keep tabs on the pH daily for the next week or so and note the lowest pH achieved in the chamber...


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 22, 2021)

Could be a failed fermentation....or a very slow fermentation. It can happen....and many things can cause it. If you mix the starter culture too soon after adding the salt, the pockets of high salt can kill off some of the culture. If that particular pig still had some antibiotics in it, that can affect the culture. There are numerous other reasons why a failed fermentation can occur....

If you leave the culture in the hydration water too long prior to mixing into the meat, that can affect the microbes too. 20 minutes tops from hydration to mixing is recommended.

If you used a different salt- impurities in the salt can kill off the culture......


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 22, 2021)

So I grind the meat and add the salt and cure the night before and put it in the walk in fridge.  Next day I add the other stuff and usually the culture and water aren’t  more than 20-30 min tops . It’s just such a small amount of culture , I don’t think I’m giving myself any wiggle room re getting it perfectly distributed . 

Appreciate the feedback, I’ll check it again tomorrow . 

Any idea how long this could conceivably be left out before moving to the chamber ? Not sure it would help anyways at this point..


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 22, 2021)

Oh and bought the big tub of salt from the sausage maker and used for the first time so hopefully  that wasn’t the cause...


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 22, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> So I grind the meat and add the salt and cure the night before and put it in the walk in fridge.  Next day I add the other stuff and usually the culture and water aren’t  more than 20-30 min tops . It’s just such a small amount of culture , I don’t think I’m giving myself any wiggle room re getting it perfectly distributed .
> 
> Appreciate the feedback, I’ll check it again tomorrow .
> 
> Any idea how long this could conceivably be left out before moving to the chamber ? Not sure it would help anyways at this point..



If you're re-mixing the meat on day two with spices and culture at that time I think you would get adequate distribution of the culture - at least if you're using mechanical mixing.  Mixing by hand might be a little more dicey ensuring adequate distribution.

I'm curious why you grind and mix salt and cure the evening before and then finish with spices and culture in the morning.  I'm not saying it's wrong, but I don't see any advantage.   I'm guessing that it is done around a work schedule, which would then make perfect sense.    I'm still learning, so I'm always looking for different or better ways to do things.  What makes more sense to me would be to grind, add cure, culture, and spices in the evening then salt the next day.  That eliminates the possibility of salt affecting the culture early on.   Even with the refrigeration, the culture will already be well distributed and starting to work on the sugars well before the salt is added.   In bread making, such as using sourdough starter or use of a biga or sponge, lactobacillus and yeasts do very well at slowly multiplying at temperatures just above freezing.  I presume that these lactic acid producing bugs when in meat do exactly the same.

Regarding the question about how long it could be left out before going into the chamber - that is when my heart sunk a bit this afternoon when I checked that out.  At 75 degrees, I believe the number was 80 hours max.  You weren't at 75 degrees the entire time so it is a bit more than that, but if you went 96 hours, then I think you should calculate  it yourself.  Page 113 is the start of the discussion in "The Art of...".    Discussions of  variable temperature fermentation for US standards and Canadian standards are included as well.   I would get the chubs cooled asap then do the numbers to see where you ended up.  Also, don't miss the discussion of "Disposition of lots which have not met degree-hour limits" on page 118. Enterotoxin is bad juju.

Edit #16 =/-    Pg. 237 of Marianski Bros. - troubleshooting provides an extended list of possible reasons why insufficient acidification occurred.  Invaluable for situations such as yours.  Good luck!


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 23, 2021)

Putting in fridge overnight - According to what I read it helps develop myosin which  helps create a better bind when you stuff it..


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 23, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Oh and bought the big tub of salt from the sausage maker and used for the first time so hopefully  that wasn’t the cause...


I have not used sausagemaker salt. I do not know where they source it from. Is it a sea salt or mined salt? I always use pure sea salt when I make salami.

As far as fermentation times, look up degree hours formula in the Marianski book..the yellow one.

Max. degree hours is 1200... 
Take your ferment temp and subtract 60 from it. that is 1 degree hour. Multiply that number by how many hours you ferment and it should stay below 1200.

So for 70*F, that is 10 degree hours per hour. 1200 / 10 is 120 hours you can safely ferment at that temp.

If you bump the temp up, figure out degree hours at both temps and add them together....


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 23, 2021)

It’s in the cooler as of first thing this morning - I’ll check PH sometime end of day again. 

Thanks again for all the feedback and help.


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 23, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Putting in fridge overnight - According to what I read it helps develop myosin which  helps create a better bind when you stuff it..


I see that statement here:  https://honest-food.net/basic-salami-recipe/    Sounds reasonable.
My understanding (though it may be wrong) is that the salt in contact with the meat begins to denature the proteins freeing up (or developing) myosin.  In this recipe - he does not grind the night before but instead only dices the meat (and fat), adds the salt and puts in the fridge.    I don't think grinding the night before is an issue, especially if you work very clean and add cure at that point as well.

I'm pretty sure that at some point in one of his videos, he states that the mixing process after the grind is what develops the myosin and actin.  Whatever the case, I think the way you're processing the meat is fine.  I don't think that was the source of your stuck fermentation.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 23, 2021)

Thanks for the explanation..


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 23, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Thanks for the explanation..


That explanation was more for me than for you....  (and anybody else interested enough to read it).  I know you have reasons for doing what you do.  I have no desire to change your processes.  It does seem to me that you might possibly still have a fermentation problem that needs examination.   Maybe not.  How to decide?   Hope that Iberico turns out OK.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 23, 2021)

Thanks MM


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 24, 2021)

One last thing - If you're still trying to figure out why you never got a pH drop, you could ask over on this other forum.  They have a lot of very knowledgeable people that seem willing to help solve problems.  https://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewforum.php?f=5


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 25, 2021)

Well, here's the PH in the tester as of today.. A week later and 3 days after putting in the 55 degree chamber.


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 25, 2021)

Perfect.  The next test will be when it's time to cut one open.   

Really weird how long the lag phase was before the pH started to drop.   Hard to explain - one can only postulate as to the cause.  Assuming that you used at least a 1/2 tsp of culture/10 lbs meat ( I didn't do the calculations recommended for your culture but it appears to be twice that of T-SPX), then it makes me guess that somehow you had low numbers of vital starter bacteria in the culture.  The lower than normal number of live bugs that were inoculated into the meat would then take much longer (several days) to multiply to the point that they had sufficient numbers to really get the pH dropping.   

If it were me, I think I would grind just a pound or so of meat and inoculate it with a proportionally lower (but adequate) amount of starter, then check the pH on that test mix for the next few days.  I believe that if it is a problem with the starter, then the problem will repeat itself.    (as always, ignore any and all if this as you wish)


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 25, 2021)

Here's a really interesting thread on BL-C  007.  This my last word on that! 


			Problem with starter culture - BL-C 007 - Homemade Sausage Making


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 25, 2021)

It's interesting - in reflection I think I was too stingy on the culture this time - I don't think I put half a teaspoon in the batch. 
In times past I just put a lot more than prescribed but there appears to be conflicting opinions on the subject - Indy quotes some wisdom that you can use too much, the article you supplied a link to says you can't put too much. I believe a shortage of culture was the culprit and it just took time to get through all the sugar and drop the PH.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 25, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> It's interesting - in reflection I think I was too stingy on the culture this time - I don't think I put half a teaspoon in the batch.
> In times past I just put a lot more than prescribed but there appears to be conflicting opinions on the subject - Indy quotes some wisdom that you can use too much, the article you supplied a link to says you can't put too much. I believe a shortage of culture was the culprit and it just took time to get through all the sugar and drop the PH.


Glad to see that your pH in that batch finally dropped. <thumbs up>

In the future, I highly suggest you buy scale accurate to 0.01 grams that will weigh up to about 500 grams. Take all the guess work out of it and weigh the culture....and spices...

and as mentioned, there are many variables that can affect the speed of fermentation of a culture. Max. mL of wine (50mL)nwill introduce max. alcohol and some cultures are sensitive to ethyl alcohol. This will slow culture growth too...


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 25, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> It's interesting - in reflection I think I was too stingy on the culture this time - I don't think I put half a teaspoon in the batch.
> In times past I just put a lot more than prescribed but there appears to be conflicting opinions on the subject - Indy quotes some wisdom that you can use too much, the article you supplied a link to says you can't put too much. I believe a shortage of culture was the culprit and it just took time to get through all the sugar and drop the PH.



After reading all that, I think I agree with your original thinking - too much can't hurt.  Lack of sugar to metabolize or a low pH inhibiting further metabolism must all end up in pretty much the same spot - somewhere between pH 5.0 - pH 4.6 or so if allowed to run to completion.  The amount of starter is just one variable in the mix that affects the speed at which that occurs (I believe ).   The cheapskate in me always tries to maximize the use of consumables that go into this sport.  Sometimes it's just better to  throw a bit more money at it and make sure that everything goes in the desired manner.
Enjoy your Sunday evening.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 25, 2021)

Thanks - probably some wisdom in making sure I do have a great scale - I’ve got 3 scales but not sure off band how many decimal points they go to..  and probably a little over is ok - but I was using 12 grams per 20 pound batch in the past - half of one of those packets- probably overkill . 

Last, ordered another 10 pounds from white pastures farms for next weekend so let the fun continue ! 

Would love to try a killer pepperoni recipe - I’ve got tons of fennel and fennel pollen left  and some encapsulated citric acid if it makes sense to use .


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 25, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Would love to try a killer pepperoni recipe - I’ve got tons of fennel and fennel pollen left and some encapsulated citric acid if it makes sense to use .


The recipe for dry cured pepperoni in the yellow Marianski book is awesome! No need for the ECA though...


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 25, 2021)

cool I have that book somewhere.


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 26, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Thanks - probably some wisdom in making sure I do have a great scale - I’ve got 3 scales but not sure off band how many decimal points they go to..  and probably a little over is ok - but I was using 12 grams per 20 pound batch in the past - half of one of those packets- probably overkill .


I thought the 007 came in 50 gram packets?


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 26, 2021)

I think you are right, the others are 25 grams..  but regardless still not enough. 

Also, I'm getting a scale with decimal points on grams.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 26, 2021)

One point I would like to clarify on the amount of culture...it does not matter per say as far as the lactic acid producing bacteria are concerned, but it does matter with respect to the flavor forming staphylococcus bacteria. Lactic acid production stops with a relatively high Aw, at 0.95, but the staphylococcus bacteria continue breaking down proteins and fats to Aw 0.85 and as the pH rises as the salami dries, the staph. bacteria function better at breaking down the meat and fat. The dosages of the starter cultures are geared towards the flavor producing bacteria, not the lactic acid bacteria. At least this is my understanding from my research.....


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 26, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> One point I would like to clarify on the amount of culture...it does not matter per say as far as the lactic acid producing bacteria are concerned, but it does matter with respect to the flavor forming staphylococcus bacteria. Lactic acid production stops with a relatively high Aw, at 0.95, but the staphylococcus bacteria continue breaking down proteins and fats to Aw 0.85 and as the *pH rises*  as the salami dries, the staph. bacteria function better at breaking down the meat and fat. The dosages of the starter cultures are geared towards the flavor producing bacteria, not the lactic acid bacteria. At least this is my understanding from my research.....



I highlighted a minor blip - should be "acidity rises" or "pH drops".  We all know you know that.

I'm glad you're doing research on these bugs.  Interesting concepts and worthy or your efforts.   Regarding the statement about starters being geared toward flavor rather than lactic acid production:  I think that is definitely the case with "Flavors of Italy" and perhaps T-SPX.   From what I've heard and read, commercial production of cured meats, speed (and perhaps safety) are most important above all else.  That might be wrong, but that is how I interpret what I've read.   Since the starters we use are (for the most part) created and marketed for commercial use, I believe that flavor, while certainly important, takes a back seat to other criteria that mass producers of cured meats find most important.  If they wanted to create product with great flavor, they would do slow ferments with extended drying.  Perhaps "best taste possible as fast as possible" is closer to reality?


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 26, 2021)

That was not a mistype....the pH of the salami will (or should) rise as it dries. This is due to the microbiological processes of the bacteria, and the molds....as well as the enzymes within the meat acting on the proteins. Now the pH DROPS during the fermentation stage, but opposite should happen when drying with good mold coverage.

The Mold will consume some of the lactic acid creating ammonia near the surface. The ammonia is slightly basic...that is why your chamber can have an ammonia smell if the mold is growing strongly from too high humidity.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 26, 2021)

Mmmm Meat said:


> If they wanted to create product with great flavor, they would do slow ferments with extended drying.


...tspx is a slow culture.....usually takes days to ferment. 
And temperature is an important element of fermentation. Lots of commercial fast ferments are done at higher temps. (85-110*F) than those used for slow fermented products. (64-75*F).


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 27, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> That was not a mistype....the pH of the salami will (or should) rise as it dries. This is due to the microbiological processes of the bacteria, and the molds....as well as the enzymes within the meat acting on the proteins. Now the pH DROPS during the fermentation stage, but opposite should happen when drying with good mold coverage.
> 
> The Mold will consume some of the lactic acid creating ammonia near the surface. The ammonia is slightly basic...that is why your chamber can have an ammonia smell if the mold is growing strongly from too high humidity.


Ahhh, I see what you were referring to.  My mistake.  I misunderstood your pointin the content.   I am aware of the pH rise in the latter portion of the drying phase. 

Anyway - sorry for hijacking the thread.  Back to Iberico!


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 27, 2021)

Well, 

I’ve got a new shipment of great Iberico meat on the way, bought when I was sure I had ruined this one - now that I have a little hope that  it will work out , exploring options for this next 10 pound batch I’ll make this coming weekend.  Open for suggestions !


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 27, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> Well,
> 
> I’ve got a new shipment of great Iberico meat on the way, bought when I was sure I had ruined this one - now that I have a little hope that  it will work out , exploring options for this next 10 pound batch I’ll make this coming weekend.  Open for suggestions !



I was never sure what was in this batch.  I would aim at something a bit different, with a flavor profile that represents Western European fare, since you're using Iberico genetic stock (not sure if it's fed acorns.  Portuguese cured meats are likely similar but worth investigating.    The Fuet in Marianski Bros. "The Art of..." is very flavorful, but not completely different from other basic salami.  It might be worth digging around for some local salami (salchichon)  varieties from Andalucía region, which I believe is where the Iberico pigs are sourced from.  Chorizo and a variant of that, Longaniza are a possibility if you love spicy cured meat.  (edit) - I forgot, you've already got some Chorizo curing.  Hmmmm...

If you've never been to Spain, I highly recommend visiting all the major cities that you can fit into a travel schedule.  The people are wonderful, vibrant, and engaging. The food - excellent, but in my mind, not quite up to Italian cuisine.  But if you get a chance to sample Jamon, sourced from Iberian pigs and aged 1 - 2 years, you'll be tempted to stay past your travel reservations.  Ask for "pan del la dia" in a bar - "bread of the day" - toasted bread with cured iberico ham....Killer! It is far and away better than prosciutto in my book, though I can't really explain why.  It just is.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 27, 2021)

I've got this Jamon ready for my slicer one day when we have a party.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 27, 2021)

I had a business trip planned for Spain just a month before Covid that was going to be a lot of fun. I'm sure we will get back to swing of things soon.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 27, 2021)

I bought a fun slicer back in January that came in..


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 27, 2021)

The Ferrari of meat slicers! Nice!


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 27, 2021)

this one looks interesting - spices I haven't tried yet in Salami..









						Cacciatore Salami Recipe - How to Make Italian Cacciatore Salami
					

A recipe for making a spicy Italian cacciatore salami at home. This recipe can be done with pork, beef or venison.




					honest-food.net


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 27, 2021)

You're going to love that Jamon.   I know that didn't come cheap.  

Almost a year after one of my trips from Sicily to Spain, one of the DODS (Dept. of Defense Schools) teacher told me she was going to make a trip to Spain.  I asked her if she could pick me up an entire Iberico ham, probably 15lbs or so, and bring it back for me.  This was 20 years ago - she returned with a gorgeous full ham that she picked up and carried back on the Alitalia plane for something like $120.  I assume that it was of the quality that now costs about 300 - 400 dollars - not the best, but still very, very good. It was late Spring in Sicily and warming quickly.  The recommendations on the Jamon called for hanging it unrefrigerated, which I did.  I worked that ham over for nearly two months before the Summer heat caused the mold to go crazy on the thing.  At that point I didn't know that I could just treat the mold with vinegar or wine and keep eating it.  I ended up trashing about half of it due to the unrelenting incursion of the mold.  That still makes me sad...


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 27, 2021)

BTW - having bought that over-the-top slicer, I think you might as well contact that farm you get your Iberico fat from and go ahead and buy a ham and cure it yourself.  There is plenty of guidance on youtube for prosciutto.  Vids on the Jamon of Spain lean more toward discussing why it's so good, not how to make your own but you may be able to find some guidance..   I'll just sit back and watch the fun.


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 27, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> this one looks interesting - spices I haven't tried yet in Salami..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've done that twice now.  I like the flavor, but I've learned that I'm not as hot on full peppercorns as I used to be.  I'm going to use mostly cracked PCs in the future.

BTW - here's a good site to browse for ideas.  They don't have recipes, but you can google them once you find something that looks enticing:  https://www.tasteatlas.com/50-most-popular-sausages-and-salamis-in-the-world


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 28, 2021)

My recommendation for your next project:


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 28, 2021)

You are funny.. No way for me.... I'll just watch others on youtube.. ;)


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 28, 2021)

I couldn't sucker you in, huh?  I guess I'll have to do it myself.....


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 29, 2021)

https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-recipes/fermented/italian/salami-piemonte


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 29, 2021)

Thanks , I was just in that area a few months before Covid  hit - really nice countryside and people.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 29, 2021)

The last big diameter chorizos I did (which are really shrinking btw), I did with 66% picante/33% dulce - so pretty spicy outcome, I anticipate. (still at 2.5% overall)...  I might do a chorizo batch this weekend with much less picante like the first time in medium diameters,

I've got to admit that I'm a little underwhelmed with the lack of variations in the recipes I've been exposed to so far. Maybe subtle differences is what's it's all about, but I was hoping for a lot more stuff out there to explore spice mix wise..


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 29, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> I've got to admit that I'm a little underwhelmed with the lack of variations in the recipes I've been exposed to so far. Maybe subtle differences is what's it's all about, but I was hoping for a lot more stuff out there to explore spice mix wise..


Oh- there is infinite variation and different stuff out there.....the problem is getting a recipe!!! Most are closely guarded secret unless PDO regulations are available. But the PDO salamis get all the notoriety, while the salami next door in the next little town that might be just as good is overlooked.


----------



## indaswamp (Apr 29, 2021)

And also remember that salami was a preservation process first and foremost, flavor was secondary. The spices used were selected because they enhanced the preservation of the salami process-either by contributing sugars for fermentation (red peppers, bell peppers, vino cotto, etc...) or the spices had antimicrobial or anti oxidation properties (thyme rosemary, clove, garlic, black pepper, etc..) you'll notice that marjoram is rarely if ever used in salami because it speeds the oxidation of fats.

Often times slight variation in the size of the grind, the type of fat selected, the size of the salami, as well as the spice profile used. With just that alone, you can makes thousands of different salamis.


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 30, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> The last big diameter chorizos I did (which are really shrinking btw), I did with 66% picante/33% dulce - so pretty spicy outcome, I anticipate. (still at 2.5% overall)...  I might do a chorizo batch this weekend with much less picante like the first time in medium diameters,
> 
> I've got to admit that I'm a little underwhelmed with the lack of variations in the recipes I've been exposed to so far. Maybe subtle differences is what's it's all about, but I was hoping for a lot more stuff out there to explore spice mix wise..


My feelings were the same.  The more I looked around, it became obvious that the favorites in many countries are often very simple recipes of salt, pepper, with some garlic, paprika, pepper powder etc.  I just consider it an opportunity to experiment with tastes that I like.  Twenty years or so and I'll have a good handle on all this.

I've found it is almost as easy to make a ten pound batch as a two pound batch.  The cleanup time (which is my least favorite part) seems to be exactly the same.  The maximize-efficiency side of my brain tells me to max out the amount of each batch so the ratio of work to production is the most favorable  .  The other (more sensible) side of my brain keeps whispering to me that experimenting with small batches gives me a better opportunity to experiment with different processes, starters, temperatures, pH levels etc.   that will ultimately speed  my progress through the learning curve faster than than my efficient brain method.   My Yin and Yang of cured sausage making - the battle is ongoing.


----------



## SCBBQ (Apr 30, 2021)

I hear you re: Clean up... I think my minimum size will continue to be 10 -12 pounds and maybe extend up to 30 pound batches when I've got free space in the cabinets.  We tend to go through it pretty quick around here as I entertain and give away take home samples that are vacuum sealed.


----------



## Mmmm Meat (Apr 30, 2021)

No surprises.  I figured you as a gentleman that likes to entertain and provide guests an incredible experience.  I always wanted to be that guy.....  Oh well....


----------



## indaswamp (May 3, 2021)

SCBBQ said:


> I hear you re: Clean up... I think my minimum size will continue to be 10 -12 pounds and maybe extend up to 30 pound batches when I've got free space in the cabinets.  We tend to go through it pretty quick around here as I entertain and give away take home samples that are vacuum sealed.


Most all my batches are 5 kilos, which is around 11 pounds. So much easier to work with kilos....especially when figuring the sugars as you can work with percentages easier. I also give away a lot of product. I am currently in Kansas visiting a friend and brought a bunch with me. Gotta clear out the drawers in the frig. if I wanna make more!


----------

