# Cold smoking inside a cardboard box



## starwars1138 (Jan 12, 2018)

Hey gang,

Will putting the bacon in the cardboard box create any cardboard "off" flavors?

Got a couple pastured Berkshire bellies headed my way in a few weeks.  Plan to cure and cold smoke before I "age" them by hanging them in the kitchen.  I've done a single belly before using an Amazen pellet smoker, by laying the belly flat inside my Big Green Egg - but with 2 bellies, I won't have the room (and I don't have additional racks).

Was thinking about using a wardrobe box from UHual with the bellies on bacon hangers.  I'm not going to use any Cure 1 so it'll need to be well ventilated to keep from creating an anaerobic environment (lets not get into a food safety/ botulism debate) which will be easy to do by just cutting additional holes to let fresh air in.  Will probably do 20hr smoke over three days or so, resting by hanging in the kitchen during the off-periods.

My concern is if the cardboard will leave any flavors or whatnot on the bacon.  My gut says no, given the amount of smoke flavors and the inherent saltiness of the bacon.  But, figured I'd ask in case anyone else had done it.  I suppose I could cover the interior with aluminum foil to mitigate that.  Eventually, I'd like to have a more permanent smoke-house but for now, I'm improvising.


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## motocrash (Jan 12, 2018)

starwars1138 said:


> Plan to cure and cold smoke before I "age" them by hanging them in the kitchen.





starwars1138 said:


> I'm not going to use any Cure 1 so it'll need to be well ventilated to keep from creating an anaerobic environment (lets not get into a food safety/ botulism debate) which will be easy to do by just cutting additional holes to let fresh air in.



Not a botulism debate,just wondering how you're processing these bellies ?
Haven't heard of any flavors from the cardboard from people who have done it.Looking forward to seeing your custom smoker box!


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## BandCollector (Jan 12, 2018)

I have done cold smoked cheese in a cardboard box with no ill effects to the cheese or me.

John


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## starwars1138 (Jan 12, 2018)

bandcollector said:


> I have done cold smoked cheese in a cardboard box with no ill effects to the cheese or me.
> 
> John


I'd fully expect cheese to be more susceptible to picking up off flavors from cardboard as compared to salt cured bacon.  That's good enough for me, bandcollector!  Thanks for your input.


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## starwars1138 (Jan 12, 2018)

motocrash said:


> Not a botulism debate,just wondering how you're processing these bellies ?
> Haven't heard of any flavors from the cardboard from people who have done it.Looking forward to seeing your custom smoker box!



Hi Crash - I've used Cure 1 salts for bacon and hams in the past to prevent botulism (and frankly because there is so much pressure to do so).  But the more I've learned about botulism and what it needs to thrive, the more I've started to lean just towards salt as the cure.  I've been following the work and "teachings" of a guy named Brandon Sheard over at https://farmsteadmeatsmith.com/ - he's more a proponent of just using salt and skipping out on the chemicals (same with the gang at River Cottage) and then trusting your nose.

That said, I'll lightly salt (and probably some brown sugar) the bellies in a meat lug, draining the water and flipping daily for about a week until they "feel" right.  Then I'll dry for a day or so for pellicle formation in the fridge (or on the porch if its cold enough) and then hit them with the smoke.  After that, I plan to "age" them by hanging them in the house and cutting off needed portions as I go (which if these are anything like my previous bacon endeavors - won't last too long!).  I expect mold - and from what I've read, mold is an assurance that you didn't over-salt - so in that regard, I welcome it.  At some point, they'll likely start to dry out too much - I'm hoping to catch them before that, slice and freeze for later.  If I had a slick walk-in cooler/curing chamber with a Cool-bot, I'd certainly use it.  But, instead I'm hoping to just to go with it based on what my local environment is suited towards.

Thanks for your feedback on the cardboard.  I'll try to remember to post pics.


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## motocrash (Jan 12, 2018)

Old school....Cool!
The guys up north have it good like that,root cellars/freezers.

Bill


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## starwars1138 (Jan 12, 2018)

motocrash said:


> Old school....Cool!
> The guys up north have it good like that,root cellars/freezers.
> 
> Bill


Don't I know it.  With this southern heat humidity combo, it makes it rough.  I have some old-timers around me that used to do country hams every year in the "smokehouse out back".  Several of them said it got to where it didn't stay cold/cool long enough after butcher time to keep things from spoiling.  A few others claim that isn't the case and that people just got lazy towards doing it themselves, especially when you could buy what you wanted for a whole lot less hassle.

We shall see - I'd have liked to start a couple weeks ago.  I can forsee it getting warm enough to need the air conditioner on before the bacon gets too dried out.


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## Wet Spaniel (Jan 12, 2018)

I've cold smoked (with a generator similar to an amnps) salmon (lox?) and bacon in a cardboard box when I was inbetween smokers and it's absolutely fine, no off flavours or concerns whatsoever.  I've done it several times and always had good results.


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## starwars1138 (Jan 12, 2018)

Wet Spaniel said:


> I've cold smoked (with a generator similar to an amnps) salmon (lox?) and bacon in a cardboard box when I was inbetween smokers and it's absolutely fine, no off flavours or concerns whatsoever.  I've done it several times and always had good results.


Thanks Wet - I think the cheese and the fish would take on any odors much easier than pork.

Done deal - I'm doing it!


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## motocrash (Jan 12, 2018)

Season the box.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 12, 2018)

No off flavors from Cardboard box when Cold Smoking.


Bear


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## SmokinAl (Jan 13, 2018)

No problem with the cardboard box, but I would never cold smoke anything for that length of time without cure#1.
That part scares me. 
I would hope that our safety moderator, Chef JimmyJ or Dave Omak see's this thread & comments on it.
Al


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## daveomak (Jan 13, 2018)

Starwars, morning...   I wasn't going to reply...  but....   You've been here for 3 years, obviously know about food safety if you've read any threads at all, and now you are believing a guy that charges money to teach you about how to be frugal...    Read up about Jim Jones...   the end results of the road you are travelling, could be the same.....

I do hope you are not taking any children you may have, on this trip with you...  leave them at grandma's...


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 13, 2018)

First, for our members and readers, the proposed bacon procedure above will be highly susceptible to spoilage and can result in a food borne illness from a variety of harmful bacteria and/or toxins. The staff and owners of SMF do not recommend you follow unsafe practices.

I am familiar with Brandon's work and ideas. He teaches and follows strict adherance to his procedures, which are not always clear unless you pay for them. While the use of a Nitrite Cure has been common practice for over One hundred years, salt only curing is older and can be done safely. Nitrite does more than prevent deadly Botulism. Nitrite. Has the added long term preservation benefit of inhibiting the fat from oxidizing and becoming rancid, it inhibits the growth of Listeria and provides the hammy flavor and pink meat color we associate with cured meat. In terms of Botulism, yes a well oxygenated smoker, vent holes, will inhibit toxin generation. My concern is the low Salt addition. The USDA allows salt only curing at 10% by weight. While this is likely excessive, I would not try a Lite amount of salt. White and some green molds are of no concern but there are others that you don't want to see like black, red or brown. The higher salt ihhibits these. 
You are getting some very good pork and trying to get a great and safe product following a risky procedure. Has it been done before? Yes, but with a lot of spoiled meat as a result and some frequent trips to the Outhouse or hospital. Considering you eat more Nitrite in a spinach salad than consuming Both those Bellies in one sitting. The benefit of Cure outweighs any outlier perceived risks...JJ


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## starwars1138 (Jan 13, 2018)

Much obliged all for the answers to my questions about the cardboard.  

As Dave pointed out, I've been here on and off for a while and have read countless debates on most all the hot-button issues that befall this great hobby (dare I say addiction) of ours.  I'm grateful for your concern.

As Jimmy stated above, what I'm planning to do is certainly outside the best practices encouraged by modern meat processing doctrine.  I don't advise anyone to deviate from conventional wisdom without clearly understanding what it is they are doing (or note doing) and why.  So often, we get driven by recipe and process rather technique and understanding.  I add baking soda and baking powder to my pancakes... but do I know why?   After doing my own research on both ends of the spectrum, I am confident that what I am proposing to do with my bacon will work for my situation.  Now is probably not the time to mention that I also drink raw milk, and bake my own bread from flour I mill myself...  I'm CRAZY!

To the nitrite issue itself - its that hammy flavor I'm seeking to avoid.  I have no problem with nitrite (and eat spinach by the truckload) and I find this whole war on nitrite to be silly (especially when all the nitrite free stuff contains celery powder..).  But I've tasted some bacon done with salt only and really enjoyed being able to taste the pork so much more.  And when I'm starting with such good quality pork, I want to taste IT and not the curing salt.

In hindsight, I should have asked the question about the cardboard independent of any mention of my planned methodology.  Truly should have foreseen that I was poking the bear.  Wasn't my intent.  I respect ya'alls opinion and appreciate your concern.  I've learned a great deal around here over the years.  You guys have tried/failed and tried/succeeded on just about every possible combination of meat, method, and equipment out there, which saves the rest of us a great deal of trouble.  There isn't any other community in this genre(?) that is as accommodating and patient as this one.

Best wishes to you all and may your smoker always be full of something!


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## chef jimmyj (Jan 14, 2018)

Ok, that makes your goal more clear. Nitrite is the best insurance policy out there but careful and sanitary handling and processing are more important...JJ


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## starwars1138 (Jan 14, 2018)

Understood ChefJJ.  I will admit that that I'm probably over zealous from a cleanliness standpoint.  

One last thing I meant to mention in my earlier reply.  I sense some pushback towards someone trying to make a living by asking for compensation in trade for for access to their skill set.  I don't have a problem with it at all.   I prefer to be paid when doing IT consulting. I enjoy free information too, but don't fault anyone for trying to make a living.  I'm grateful there are people out there trying to spread the word and take back ownership of bacon and food culture from the more corporate interests.


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## daveomak (Jan 14, 2018)

I thought it was funny a guy was charging money to teach someone how to be frugal ...   Now that's funny...  It's like buying a wallet with your last $5...


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## starwars1138 (Jan 14, 2018)

I dunno - Dave Ramsey has a free to listen to talk show on the radio but also sells books and tickets to his live events.  Dude is about as frugal as the come (and I've paid to see him and bought his books - and am grateful for the opportunity to do so).  

I don't begrudge anyone for making a living honestly.  Sheard's stuff seems less like frugality and more like mindfulness.   IMHO that is.  

And yeah - if you only have $5, you don't need a wallet :) - you need a job!


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