# Pastrami rub recipe



## Inscrutable (Jul 8, 2020)

The couple recent pastrami threads triggered this. Seems black pepper, coriander, onion, and garlic is pretty universal and close to what many of you are applying.
I found this recipe as ostensibly the Katz Deli (NYC) recipe. It adds a few ingredients I rarely see mentioned. I will list ingredients with relative proportion, you can do the math depending how big a batch you want to make  (probably we all know 1Tbs = 3 tsp, and 16 Tbs in a cup, so if using Tbs for all this would make about 2 cups) And when I note powder/seed or peppercorns, it means half as powder and half as cracked or very coarse ground seeds/peppercorns.

12 Black pepper ground/peppercorns
6 Coriander powder/seeds
3 Brown sugar
3 Paprika
2 Garlic powder
2 Onion powder
1 Mustard powder/seeds

Didn’t have the seeds when I made it so used preground/powder for all. Taste was really good and close to faded memories of visits to good delis. See what you think if you try.


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 8, 2020)

I use a similar mix, with a couple extra ingredients. Mine is a cross between NY and Montreal. 
You have a nice mix there...JJ


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## gary s (Jul 8, 2020)

Hmmm   Sounds good 

Gary


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## thirdeye (Jul 8, 2020)

Inscrutable said:


> The couple recent pastrami threads triggered this. Seems black pepper, coriander, onion, and garlic is pretty universal and close to what many of you are applying.
> I found this recipe as ostensibly the Katz Deli (NYC) recipe. It adds a few ingredients I rarely see mentioned. I will list ingredients with relative proportion, you can do the math depending how big a batch you want to make  (probably we all know 1Tbs = 3 tsp, and 16 Tbs in a cup, so if using Tbs for all this would make about 2 cups) And when I note powder/seed or peppercorns, it means half as powder and half as cracked or very coarse ground seeds/peppercorns.
> 
> 12 Black pepper ground/peppercorns
> ...



My pastrami seasoning has similar ingredients, but is more pepper dominate.  The Montreal seasoning has many duplicated ingredients, and it's function is to provide a degree of coarseness.  Sugar is an ingredient in many pastrami rubs, mainly to offset the harshness of salt used in the corning process.... I omitted it because on home corned beef I use a lower salt percentage and on storebought corned beef I do a 5 to 6 hour soak-out. 

4 tablespoons freshly ground black pepper - coarse
1 teaspoon ground coriander
1 teaspoon granulated garlic powder
1 teaspoon onion powder
2 teaspoons Canadian/Montreal Steak seasoning
1/2 teaspoon thyme, dried
1 teaspoon paprika
Combine all ingredients and mix thoroughly.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Jul 8, 2020)

You all trying to get my change my corned beef to pastrami .  Started brining Sunday.  Was going to give the smoker a rest.


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## tallbm (Jul 8, 2020)

In my ground venison pastrami sandwich meat the recipe calls for a little bit of Juniper Berry.  What kind of pastrami does the use of juniper berry make?
Im hoping someone has input or maybe 

 chef jimmyj
 knows.


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## Inscrutable (Jul 8, 2020)

I do not know why. I would say a lot of folks like to put their own spin on to suit their own preferences or palates ... perfectly fine and happens all the time in everything. Life would be pretty boring in monochrome.


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## Inscrutable (Jul 8, 2020)

Brian Trommater said:


> You all trying to get my change my corned beef to pastrami .  Started brining Sunday.  Was going to give the smoker a rest.


Not at all. Just occurred to me to post this after seeing a few pastrami threads and I took mine out to make a grilled pastrami/Swiss on rye/pumpernickel swirl. I love corned beef too!


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Jul 8, 2020)

Inscrutable said:


> Not at all. Just occurred to me to post this after seeing a few pastrami threads and I took mine out to make a grilled pastrami/Swiss on rye/pumpernickel swirl. I love corned beef too!



Guess I will have to work on a rye sourdough.  I need give up bread for a while.  Having problems getting my blood sugar back in check!  I kind of let it go for a while.  Just cant stay on the straight and narrow.


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## thirdeye (Jul 8, 2020)

tallbm said:


> In my ground venison pastrami sandwich meat the recipe calls for a little bit of *Juniper Berry.  *What kind of pastrami does the use of juniper berry make?
> Im hoping someone has input or maybe
> 
> chef jimmyj
> knows.



I can share this recipe  regarding juniper berries, and a real twist on pastrami with two sweet glazes. This recipe comes by way of a guest contributor to my online pastrami write-up:

_Pre-soak the brisket(s) for 48 hours in cool water (iced to maintain the temperature below 40°, or kept in the refrigerator in a bucket or zipper bag). Add some roughly cubed, raw potatoes to the water, (appox 2 pounds) to help soak up some of the salts that are drawn out of the brisket. Change the water, and potatoes, every 12 hours. Some of the water from the last soak may be saved and used for boiling cabbage._
_
At the end of the soaking time discard the potatoes, remove the brisket, and let dry. Then apply the following rub, reserving some for another coating before slicing. Wrap brisket in plastic, then refrigerate overnight.

RUB:
4 parts ground peppercorns
4 parts ground coriander seeds
2 parts Turbinado sugar
2 parts ground Juniper berries
1 part ground onion powder
1 part thyme, ground
1 part paprika
1 part ground garlic powder
1 part ground ginger
1/2 part ground cloves
1/2 part ground nutmeg

On cooking day bring brisket to room temperature, then cook with an indirect set up at 275° (grate temperature) until the internal temperature is 180°. Allow about 1 hour per pound for cooking.

During the last 1/2 hour of the cook, glaze the brisket with one of these two concoctions, then rest about 1/2 hour, re-apply rub liberally, then slice against the grain and serve. This is Heaven.

Glaze # 1
1 cup honey
1 cup maple syrup
1/2 tablespoon cinnamon
1/4 cup confectioner’s sugar

Heat liquids gently, over low heat, until warm to touch. Then add cinnamon, and slowly mix in confectioner’s sugar until thoroughly mixed. Take off heat, set aside until needed, Use to glaze meat while on cooker. Reserve some glaze to serve on the side at the table.

Glaze # 2
1-16 oz package fresh cranberries
1 cup sugar, (Turbinado sugar is a nice touch)
1 jar, approximately, 10 oz. of Red Currant Jam
1- 8 oz container of Honey Mustard

Put cranberries in a 3-4 Qt pot on low, and add sugar... stir occasionally, cook until cranberries start to "pop". Add Red Currant Jam, and Honey Mustard and let simmer for approximately 10 minutes, stirring a few times during the process. Take off heat, set aside until needed use to glaze meat while on cooker. Reserve some glaze to serve on the side at the table.
*Cooks Notes:
I'm of an Irish, "off the boat” heritage, and have been tweaking this recipe since the mid 70's. Only in the last 4 years have I hit what I call "Corn Beef Nirvana".*
_
_*Bobberqer* _


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## Inscrutable (Jul 8, 2020)

Cool. 
I thought some drunk cook spilled his gin on it and like it !


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## thirdeye (Jul 8, 2020)

One more to toss out there.... has anyone had corned beef or pastrami served with the hot Oriental mustard?  I had it at a St Patrick's Day party one year, and it's a good combination.  I like it better on left over sandwiches.


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## mushroomboots (Jul 8, 2020)

Brian Trommater said:


> Guess I will have to work on a rye sourdough.  I need give up bread for a while.  Having problems getting my blood sugar back in check!  I kind of let it go for a while.  Just cant stay on the straight and narrow.



Best of luck. I know it can be hard, but I sure appreciate your persistence. We want you to stay healthy and around ;)


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## tallbm (Jul 8, 2020)

Thanks for the info 

 thirdeye
 !
I am gonna make a combination of my existing ground pastrami seasoning and the others like the ones posted here and give this a shot on 2 brisket flats


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## MJB05615 (Jul 8, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> I can share this recipe  regarding juniper berries, and a real twist on pastrami with two sweet glazes. This recipe comes by way of a guest contributor to my online pastrami write-up:
> 
> _Pre-soak the brisket(s) for 48 hours in cool water (iced to maintain the temperature below 40°, or kept in the refrigerator in a bucket or zipper bag). Add some roughly cubed, raw potatoes to the water, (appox 2 pounds) to help soak up some of the salts that are drawn out of the brisket. Change the water, and potatoes, every 12 hours. Some of the water from the last soak may be saved and used for boiling cabbage._
> 
> ...


That is one excellent recipe!  I'm gonna give it a try as soon as I can get a Brisket.  Price is coming down a little, but out of stock most of the time now.
Thanks,

Mike


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 8, 2020)

Juniper is great on Pastrami. My Go To Rub is below...JJ 

*Better 'en NY Pastrami Rub*

2T Turbinado Sugar
2T Black Peppercorns
1T Coriander Seed
1T Dill Seed
1T Dry Minced Onion
1T Dry Minced Garlic
1tsp Allspice Berries (6-8ea)
1tsp Mustard Seed
1tsp Dry Thyme Leaves
3 Bay Leaves, crumbled
1tsp Juniper Berries (6-8ea)

All Spices are Whole and were toasted in a dry pan over Medium heat until fragrant.
Let the Spices cool then Grind in a cheapo Coffee Grinder until slightly less than Coarse. The Garlic and Onion do not need to be toasted. If grinding do so only slightly as the Minced size is pretty close to perfect for Pastrami.


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## tallbm (Jul 8, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> Juniper is great on Pastrami. My Go To Rub is below...JJ
> 
> *Better 'en NY Pastrami Rub*
> 
> ...



Nice!  Your extra seasonings sound about like my pickling spice i have ground up already hahaha. Im debating on brining/curing with all of that then coating with cracked black pepper and some corriander for the final smoke in maple wood.  Any red flags with that?


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 8, 2020)

I mostly turn Corned Points, from St Patty's Day, into Pastrami.  It my understanding the commercial brine/cure they inject contains classic Pickling Spice.  I add my Rub and get great results. The spices in the brine will taste different than the surface spices. Herbs and Spices have Water Soluble flavors and Fat Soluble flavors. So the combo gives an overall result. There are no red flags with your plan...JJ


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## mushroomboots (Jul 9, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> I can share this recipe  regarding juniper berries, and a real twist on pastrami with two sweet glazes. This recipe comes by way of a guest contributor to my online pastrami write-up:
> 
> _Pre-soak the brisket(s) for 48 hours in cool water (iced to maintain the temperature below 40°, or kept in the refrigerator in a bucket or zipper bag). Add some roughly cubed, raw potatoes to the water, (appox 2 pounds) to help soak up some of the salts that are drawn out of the brisket. Change the water, and potatoes, every 12 hours. Some of the water from the last soak may be saved and used for boiling cabbage._
> 
> ...



Looks wonderful!  I'm going to try it on a venison eye of round I currently have defrosting.  Thank you for sharing.


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## mushroomboots (Jul 9, 2020)

mushroomboots said:


> Looks wonderful!  I'm going to try it on a venison eye of round I currently have defrosting.  Thank you for sharing.



It occurs to me that the recipe does not include the type or amount of salt in the brine.  Any information on this, and also why the potatoes to soak up salt as opposed to just using less salt?


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## mushroomboots (Jul 9, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> I can share this recipe  regarding juniper berries, and a real twist on pastrami with two sweet glazes. This recipe comes by way of a guest contributor to my online pastrami write-up:
> 
> _Pre-soak the brisket(s) for 48 hours in cool water (iced to maintain the temperature below 40°, or kept in the refrigerator in a bucket or zipper bag). Add some roughly cubed, raw potatoes to the water, (appox 2 pounds) to help soak up some of the salts that are drawn out of the brisket. Change the water, and potatoes, every 12 hours. Some of the water from the last soak may be saved and used for boiling cabbage._
> 
> ...



So, it appears people buy a brisket and are soaking it to Remove salt.  As I had mentioned, I'd wanted to make this pastrami from a cut of venison.  I apologize for my complete inexperience, but I sure would appreciate a basic recommendation on just how to brine my venison before applying the rub.  Thanks for the patience you guys.


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 9, 2020)

mushroomboots said:


> It occurs to me that the recipe does not include the type or amount of salt in the brine.  Any information on this, and also why the potatoes to soak up salt as opposed to just using less salt?



The recipe Starts with Corned Beef. The Soak with Potato is to remove Salt.  



mushroomboots said:


> So, it appears people buy a brisket and are soaking it to Remove salt.  As I had mentioned, I'd wanted to make this pastrami from a cut of venison.  I apologize for my complete inexperience, but I sure would appreciate a basic recommendation on just how to brine my venison before applying the rub.  Thanks for the patience you guys.



Here is a Brine/Cure that will work great on Venison...JJ 

Killer Corned Beef Brine

1Gal Cold Water
1/2C Morton Kosher Salt (3/4C if Diamond Chrystal)
1/4C Pickling Spice
1C Diced Onion
4 Cloves Garlic, chopped.
1Ea Carrot, diced
1Ea Rib Celery, diced
1T Fresh Thyme Leaves (1tsp Dry)
2T Brown Sugar
1T Cure #1

Toast the Pickling Spices in a dry 2 Qt Pot over medium heat until fragrant.
Add 1Qt of the Water and the remaining EXCEPT the Cure #1.
Bring to a Boil and simmer 5 minutes.
Add this " Tea " to the remaining 3QT Cold Water in a food safe container and stir in the 1T Cure #1.
Measure the thickness of the meat at the thickest point.
Brine One Day for each 1/2 inch of thickness of the thickest part.
Soak completely submerged, weight down with a bag of water.
Everything may fit in a Ziplock 2 Gallon Bag if you don't have a Food Safe Container.
Place Bag in another container or roasting pan in case of leaks.[/QUOTE]


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## mushroomboots (Jul 9, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> The recipe Starts with Corned Beef. The Soak with Potato is to remove Salt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

 chef jimmyj, thank you so very much!  I really appreciate that I now have something to work with, and especially with venison.  I'm excited to try this out.


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## thirdeye (Jul 10, 2020)

mushroomboots said:


> It occurs to me that the recipe does not include the type or amount of salt in the brine.  Any information on this, and also why the potatoes to soak up salt as opposed to just using less salt?



Just to elaborate on using potatoes.... in the case of using them when soaking-out a store-bought corned beef; the thought is that changing the water several times will keep the reverse osmosis going (salt from the corned beef being drawn into the fresh water).  And the thought of using potatoes is for them to sponge up some of the salt in the water keeping is purer in between changes.  For years I've seen mention of cooking potatoes for 20 minutes in an overly salty soup, so this "cooks tip" has been around for awhile... however it's not very effective.  All that said, I made no changes to Bobby's recipe after asking him for a write-up, and I have gotten a lot of positive feedback from people that have tried it. 




mushroomboots said:


> So, it appears people buy a brisket and are soaking it to Remove salt.  As I had mentioned, I'd wanted to make this pastrami from a cut of venison.  I apologize for my complete inexperience, but I sure would appreciate a basic recommendation on just how to brine my venison before applying the rub.  Thanks for the patience you guys.



The general theory for soak-out is...  if a saltier cure is used, the meat will likely benefit from a soak-out.  There are options for a dry cure, or a wet brine cure, an injectable cure, and an injectable cure, which is combined with a cover cure. The store-bought corned beefs are high in salt, and high in cure,  and they have been injected, then dumped into huge vats. I've never heard any true numbers on the cure time, but I would think commercial processors have designed their methods to minimize the time in order to get product to market faster.   Not to mention they have enough residual brine in them the briskets are curing in the package.  When home curing on the other hand, most of us are interested in quality over quality. 

The recipe that *

 chef jimmyj
*posted is calling for 1/2 cup of salt.  Many flavor brines and curing brines use 1 cup of salt per gallon, so it's safe to say his is a lower salt brine.


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## chef jimmyj (Jul 10, 2020)

It is Low Salt...I tried the 1C Kosher per Gallon and found it too Salty for my taste, and I Salt food Heavily! (Glad my Cardiologist doesn't read this stuff!) I use 1/2C Kosher per Gallon in all my Brines...JJ


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## thirdeye (Jul 10, 2020)

chef jimmyj said:


> It is Low Salt...I tried the 1C Kosher per Gallon and found it too Salty for my taste, and I Salt food Heavily! (Glad my Cardiologist doesn't read this stuff!) I use 1/2C Kosher per Gallon in all my Brines...JJ



I've been playing around with salt/sugar ratio's using Pop's Brine for *chicken pieces* and a 12 to 18 hour brine time.   90 grams of salt (~1/3 cup of canning salt) per gallon was too low for me.  150 grams per gallon was too high, so I'm currently liking 125 grams per gallon.


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## Inscrutable (Jul 10, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> Just to elaborate on using potatoes.... in the case of using them when soaking-out a store-bought corned beef; the thought is that changing the water several times will keep the reverse osmosis going (salt from the corned beef being drawn into the fresh water).


It doesn’t really work that way. The natural osmotic movement is from fresh to salty/brackish. That‘s why we must apply energy (pressure) in reverse osmosis plants to treat salty water to make fresh/potable water, and move the chlorides from brackish/seawater across a semi-permeable membrane to waste ... hence the term REVERSE osmosis. These soak-outs are not trying to separate chlorides at a molecular level ...  just some general equalization of the salt concentrations, not exactly an osmotic process.

Sorry, a recovering engineer


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## thirdeye (Jul 11, 2020)

Great explanation and correct. I'm guilty of using "osmosis" in general to mean an exchange mainly because the word itself is in our vocabulary, albeit as you pointed out some of us don't grasp the concept.  I suppose in curing discussions, "diffusion" would be more appropiate.  The downside is, 4 people will ask.... what's diffusion?


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## chopsaw (Jul 11, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> I've been playing around with salt/sugar ratio's using Pop's Brine for *chicken pieces* and a 12 to 18 hour brine time. 90 grams of salt (~1/3 cup of canning salt) per gallon was too low for me. 150 grams per gallon was too high, so I'm currently liking 125 grams per gallon.


I was just browsing thru this thread , and have not read everything , but wanted to comment on this because I've done the same with Pop's brine . 
I have not weighed the stuff out , but like 1/2 cup canning salt , 1/2 cup white sugar , 1/2 cup brown sugar and the tablespoon of cure 1 . I also add 1/2 tsp of lemon extract for poultry . The 1/2 tsp of extract was max for me . I worked my way up to that . I say soak " overnight " but like you it's around 18 hours or so . I mix the gallon of brine , inject as much as the bird will hold , the soak .


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## tallbm (Jul 11, 2020)

I find i like a 2.25% amount of salt in my brines and I add cure to that with no changing things.  Works well for me.  Not too salty overall.  Everynow and a gain i get a thin piece of meat that is a touch saltier but a 2.25% equilbrium brine seems to do the trick for me.

I do 1% sugar as well.

It's simple.  Measure the weight of the meat (ounces or grams never pounds).  Measure the weight of the water (ounces or grams never pounds).  Multiply that amount by .0225 (which is 2.25%) and that is how much salt to add (in ounces or grams, whatever unit u measured in).

Play with your salt percentage to tweak to your tastes :)


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## smokin vegas (Jan 11, 2022)

Inscrutable said:


> The couple recent pastrami threads triggered this. Seems black pepper, coriander, onion, and garlic is pretty universal and close to what many of you are applying.
> I found this recipe as ostensibly the Katz Deli (NYC) recipe. It adds a few ingredients I rarely see mentioned. I will list ingredients with relative proportion, you can do the math depending how big a batch you want to make  (probably we all know 1Tbs = 3 tsp, and 16 Tbs in a cup, so if using Tbs for all this would make about 2 cups) And when I note powder/seed or peppercorns, it means half as powder and half as cracked or very coarse ground seeds/peppercorns.
> 
> 12 Black pepper ground/peppercorns
> ...


Did you brine your brisket if so did what seasonings did you put  into the brine.  I usually brine for at least 7 to 10 days depending on the size of the brisket, (I use tri tip). I used to use pickling spices but was not thrilled with the flavor so I am trying brown sugar ground black mustard seed, cooriander, juniper berries, cracked black pepper, crushed garlic, kosher salt and cure #1


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## radioguy (Jan 11, 2022)

Here is one from Guy Fieri.









						Primetime Pastrami
					

Get Primetime Pastrami Recipe from Food Network




					www.foodnetwork.com
				




RG


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