# Posting on the UK Forum



## rabbithutch (Aug 22, 2015)

I'm not a member of that group because I live in Texas, not the UK; however I read posts there but cannot seem to reply.

I saw THIS thread and every way I tried to post to it all I could get was the pop-up offer to join.  Case (aka dirtsailor) posted in the thread, why can I not?

:icon_eek:


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## daveomak (Aug 22, 2015)

You have to join the group.....   Just like any group.....

Unfortunately, they usually post most stuff on the UK forum...  instead of the main forum...  so you have to join their group to post...


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## rabbithutch (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks, Dave!

How's the air in Okanogan today?


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## daveomak (Aug 22, 2015)

Still smoky.....   but not as bad....


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## mdboatbum (Aug 22, 2015)

No offense to our esteemed UK members, but the way the UK group has evolved is a prime example of why I absolutely hate groups on this site. In theory they're great for sharing pertinent information regarding a specific locale or demographic. However, in practice, they're almost always divisive and exclusive. 
The UK group has essentially become a completely separate forum. And with each passing day there is less and less interaction between members of the UK group and the forum as a whole. I don't mean to sound like a jerk here. I think what Danny, Wade and all the members have done for smoking in the UK is pretty damned amazing and they deserve a ton of credit. I only wish they were more a part of the community as a whole.


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## rabbithutch (Aug 22, 2015)

I joined the UK group and posted a response there.  So far nobody has flashed a "go home yank" sign at me.  (Besides, I'm a confederate not a yank(ee).)

I really didn't mean to start a flame war or even to rant.  I was just surprised that I couldn't post and thought that there might be some dysfunction on the forum.


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## mdboatbum (Aug 22, 2015)

My point was in no way that the UK members are unwelcoming or hostile in the least.  I too joined the group and have been treated very well. My point was that the way the groups are set up tends to promote isolation of a group from the main forum. As Dave pointed out, most posts from UK group members are put in the UK group, where the vast majority of SMF members can't reply. So, there develops a wonderful dialogue between members of the UK group that is completely separate from 99% of the rest of the forum. This isn't an intentional separation, it's just how it works out. If, on the other hand, groups were eliminated and made into sub forums, there would be much more interaction. In addition, group members would be more likely to post their smokes in the appropriate forum. Just today there is a wonderful write up on smoking pork cheeks which has zero replies because it's in the UK group.


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## daveomak (Aug 22, 2015)

I unjoined from the UK group.....

I think it's time to eliminate the "joining" portion of groups...  maybe even eliminate "geographical" groups completely.....   

Seems, lately, divisiveness is the only thing that's PC.....

You've got my 2 cents...


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## pc farmer (Aug 22, 2015)

You maybe right Dave.  I have noticed the same thing.


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## kc5tpy (Aug 22, 2015)

Hello.  WOW!!  I have been so busy trying to "spread the word" and get folks to join in I lost sight of this,  In the U.K. BBQ/Smoking is a new thing.  The U.K. public idea is grilling burgers. sausages and chicken parts,  The sausages are burned and the rest is not cooked..We are not trying to be " aloof!.  I/we are trying to build up the Group.  We welcome everyone.  We are trying to spread the "word" here.  Your points are well taken.  I will take this back to the Group.

Folks.  BBQ/smoking  is a foreign concept here.  Like meeting someone from the moon.  We do not mean to be "standoffish.  I/we just need to hold the folks who know their stuff together,  I and others are trying to build something here.  We WANT! to be contributing members!  We WILL be contributing members.  Please give us a chance'  Let us build our core base and then "WATCH OUT!"   Keeep Smokin!

Danny


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## wade (Aug 23, 2015)

Mdboatbum said:


> My point was in no way that the UK members are unwelcoming or hostile in the least. I too joined the group and have been treated very well. My point was that the way the groups are set up tends to promote isolation of a group from the main forum. As Dave pointed out, most posts from UK group members are put in the UK group, where the vast majority of SMF members can't reply. So, there develops a wonderful dialogue between members of the UK group that is completely separate from 99% of the rest of the forum. This isn't an intentional separation, it's just how it works out. If, on the other hand, groups were eliminated and made into sub forums, there would be much more interaction. In addition, group members would be more likely to post their smokes in the appropriate forum. Just today there is a wonderful write up on smoking pork cheeks which has zero replies because it's in the UK group.


I totally agree Dave. The Groups do give the impression of isolation and I think that is not good. It has been very helpful though to be able to group our common posts so that they are easily seen by the new UK members as it makes it feel more relevant to them and encourages them to stay. My ideal scenario would be to have a UK "group" where anyone who wanted to post or respond did not have to actually register in order to post in it - but this may be defeating the purpose of the forum group design. Although everything posted in any of the Groups is fully visible by the whole forum community when viewed through "New Posts", I think that having to register before being able to reply certainly puts a lot of people off. I know it deterred me at first when responding to threads in other groups.

Maybe, as you suggest, a better solution would be to have new section under the main forum called something like "Geographical" and have sub sections for a geographical region that has sufficient following to warrant it. OK, maybe at the moment it would only contain "UK Smokers" but maybe in the future it could also contain "Canadian Smokers" or "Australian Smokers" too. This would be along the same lines as the other forum sections

Community
Blowing Smoke
SMF News
OTBS
...

Smoking Meat (and other things)
General Discussion
Pork
Beef
...

Geographical
UK Smokers
Canadian Smokers
Australian Smokers
...

At least this way the posts could still be "Grouped" but they would remain fully integrated into the main forum.

Just to be clear, these are my own thoughts and I am *not* suggesting this in any formal capacity from the UK Group or on behalf of any of the other UK Smokers group leads.


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## wade (Aug 23, 2015)

We should also try to encourage more posts that are not UK specific to be put in the appropriate main forum sections - and maybe post links to them within the section itself, if appropriate. The main UK section should probably be used as a regional version of "Blow Smoke Around the Smoker"


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## smokewood (Aug 23, 2015)

I think that is a good start Wade.


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## smokin phil (Aug 23, 2015)

From time to time, I end up wandering about in the UK section. 

First, let me say, a GREAT group of folks!! Believe me, I've thought of ways to get to next year's smoke in!!!!  And yes, you've basically introduced smoking to the UK! 

However, I have to agree, there is a perceived exclusiveness. The fact the you have to join a "second time"  to post there is a lot of it. I myself haven't joined simply because I don't think I have a ton to offer that particular group, other that "looks great",  "good job".  I am, however, heavily Manx, as my grandparents moved here a few years back. 

Be that as it may, there is a "problem" here, but both not sure if it really needs addressing or what the "ideal" solution even is. 

There's my two pence.


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## smokin phil (Aug 23, 2015)

DaveOmak said:


> You have to join the group.....   Just like any group.....
> 
> Unfortunately, they usually post most stuff on the UK forum...  instead of the main forum...  so you have to join their group to post...



I have not noticed any other groups here I had to join, but, that is quite likely my fault. Also,  it took me a few years before I even knew I had to join the UK group to post there. Things like that aren't made very clear here, just as becoming a "Premier Member"  isn't either. If more people knew, more people would pay. Just waiting to get a few bucks free, as I just found out I could pay to be a Premier Member a few weeks ago. And I've been here for years. YEARS!  I just though Premier Member was another one of the exclusive clubs on here like OTBS. Sure can't buy your way into that one! 

Anyway, General knowledge about all the bells and whistles around here is a bit lacking. All you could ever wanna know about anything else is on here though!!!


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## smokewood (Aug 23, 2015)

Good Evening Gentlemen,

I have read your thread and feel that is is appropriate to post a reply.  The last thing we want to do is cause  animosity with any members.

I don't want to bore you but to give you a bit of history about BBQ in the UK.  If you mention BBQ or Smoking food to 99 out of a 100 people in the UK they will mention cremated burgers, raw under-cooked chicken and sausages that are inedible, that's it,  they have never heard of pulled pork or ribs, and are not aware that you can cook on a BBQ/Smoker for 5, 8, or 15 hours.  it is a totally alien concept to them. 

It is only the past couple of years that things are starting to change.  We now have the odd BBQ restaurants, pop up restaurants, and even the main supermarkets are selling pulled pork brisket & ribs.  I spoke to a man last week and he is importing container loads of BBQ Sauce & Rubs into the UK, so basically we are undergoing a food revolution in the UK, that has not been seen in this country since the microwave oven was invented !

Our options are to join a US forum which is fantastic, but we cannot get products that you take for granted in the US.  For example we cannot get hold of brisket (ours is rolled and then simmered for hours in water), pulled pork and kosher salt just to name a few.  Equipment is another huge problem, you try finding a 50 gallon drum in the UK to make a UDS, it is near impossible.  But one of our members has made a couple, and posted the photo's on the UK forum (complete with parts list) and this has encouraged a couple of new members to try.  This would not have been possible if he had posted on the main forum, as we do not have the same stores as you.  Therefore there is a huge void, and because of this there was a void that needed to be filled, and we just happened to have a Texan who was more than happy to take on this huge challenge and therefore the UK Forum was born.

Our members  are increasing weekly so we are really making a difference.  We held our second annual smoking weekend a couple of weeks ago and the turnout was amazing, and we fed most of the campsite, which helped to spread the word.

I understand where you are coming from that we are not posting on the main forums, and we mean no disrespect but we feel we would lose some of our members because we would not be able to give the members the support they need,and if we missed their post, they would go elsewhere.   The only way to ensure that we do not miss a post or a reply is to keep it in the UK forum, not ideal but it works.  Since the numbers are growing, and more time is needed to support our members Smoking Monkey, Wade & myself have joined Danny as group leads.  

We feel passionate about BBQ & Food Smoking and want to spread the word, and feel honoured (spelt the UK way) that some of our fellow smokers from across the pond have posted on the UK forum.  We are certainly open to suggestions how we can contribute to the main forums, and also give the valuable service that is needed by our UK members, the last thing we want  is a them and us culture and cause a divide.

Regards & Best Wishes

Smokewood


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## daveomak (Aug 23, 2015)

Smokewood.....  point taken......    Why is it necessary to join, to post comments...   If you are in the learning stages, seems odd you want us to join to make comments....


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## rabbithutch (Aug 23, 2015)

Well said, Smokewood!

Thank you for taking the time to tell us about smoking in the UK.  I had no idea that it is a novel thing there.  Thank you, also, for welcoming my contributions, meager though they were and generally always are.

I scan "New Posts" every time I log in and was a bit chagrined at first that I could not respond to a post.  I posted to find out why and was told that I had to join the group to post.  I did and you folks have been welcoming, friendly and engaging.  I look forward to hearing that you, Wade, et al have converted the countryside and that smokers are invading every patio and garden in the UK.

Cheers!


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## smokin monkey (Aug 23, 2015)

DaveOmak said:


> Smokewood.....  point taken......    Why is it necessary to join, to post comments...   If you are in the learning stages, seems odd you want us to join to make comments....


Hi Dave, it's not the UK Group that make you join, it's how the site is set up.   We welcome everbody to post on the forum.


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## wade (Aug 23, 2015)

Smokin Monkey said:


> Hi Dave, it's not the UK Group that make you join, it's how the site is set up. We welcome everbody to post on the forum.


Yes, we would rather that people didn't have to "join" in order to post but it is the way the Groups have been set up on here.


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## pineywoods (Aug 23, 2015)

You have to join any group to post in it.

Sausage Makers, N. FL Gathering, S. FL Gathering, MES, Lang, other state groups all groups that's just the way it was set up.

Do we need to change it? Maybe but it's not something done overnight and would require Huddler to do it for us. I'll bring it up to the other admins ad Jeff and see what they think but as I said it would require Huddler's help as well so it won't change overnight


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## smokewood (Aug 24, 2015)

DaveOmak said:


> Smokewood..... point taken...... Why is it necessary to join, to post comments... If you are in the learning stages, seems odd you want us to join to make comments....


I concur with what Wade & Smokin Monkey have said. I would personally prefer it if you did not have to register, it would make things a lot easier.


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## mdboatbum (Aug 24, 2015)

someday I'll learn to keep my big fat mouth shut. [emoji]128563[/emoji]


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## vibe (Aug 24, 2015)

I was put off by this site originally as it was too much as a beginner smoker from the U.K. I started on bbbqs.com which is British BBQ society forum as it was a simpler forum to navigate and get to grips with smoking and generally learn the ropes. Also as its a smaller community there isn't so many posts to keep up with. Now I'm past the beginning stages and understand a lot more, coming to this forum was then less daunting, but still had to figure it out as the front 'featured content' page was just too much and not what I'm used to seeing for a forum until you then click the forum from the menu bar.

As for content we do need an area so questions can be asked to others from the UK as to something UK specific. Like what to ask the butcher for as our butchers don't know the U.S. Cuts.

I've actually given up with my local butcher after taking in pictures, explaining where the cut is from and how to cut it to no avail so online butchers for me now (which costs a fair bit more [emoji]128532[/emoji] )

And then where to buy other things or alternatives to what the U.S. Guys can find at any store. 

I actually bought a recipe online which were all McCormick's ingredients which we do not have, and after using Schwartz as a replacement found its not possible to have the same end result. 

Anyways, I think as Wade suggested, sub forums would work best and maybe any search results bringing people to this site would be direct to www.smokingmeatforums.com/f/ as that looks like what you would expect to see going to a forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## daveomak (Aug 24, 2015)

Mdboatbum said:


> someday I'll learn to keep my big fat mouth shut. [emoji]128563[/emoji]




YEAH RIGHT !!!!!    Right after me.....   you can be second, Bum....   :2thumbs:


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## kc5tpy (Aug 25, 2015)

Hello.  Points all well taken.  Two things I should point out is A:  IF; as a Lead, I look over I see instead of 179 members we now have 180.  I now know I have a new member who may have NEVER posted anything.  Any where.  They just find the forum and join our Group.  Sad I know but I keep a spreadsheet of all the members ( bit behind now ).  So our new Group member now has zero personal touch.  They may be a bit shy and hesitant.  "Just that personal touch".  I said nothing but a Lead took his time to find me and "Welcome" me to the Group and offer any help he can.  Something to draw in new members.  Many times I get ZERO reply but you would be surprised at how many times I receive a BIG Thank You.  Customer service.  B:  The PM the Group allows a Lead to pass on important info to each member of the Group.  I know you guys across the pond also hear it but how else do you contact all members at once?

I can agree that changes could be made but how do we change and still keep the good points.

Also for us; the Group is still fragile.  As you heard BBQ/Smoking is only JUST taking off.  We have a hard time retaining members.  One, two questions and they never show up again.  If we don't hold the Group together and support each other; if we just scatter the members to the wind they will be lost.  Vibe got the point.  Guys; we can't get a packer, proper pork shoulder is hard to find.  American breakfast sausage for a fatty?  NOPE!  A decent ring or link sausage?  Most folks have never tasted one.  Many members didn't even realise there was difference between U.S. and U.K. chilli powder until this year.  U.K. members just can't get this info anywhere else.  We ARE part of the Forum.  We WANT to be part of the Forum.  We NEED you guys to help.  We appreciate all your help.  I just feel diluting the Group would not be a good thing.  Just my opinion.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## pc farmer (Aug 25, 2015)

KC5TPY said:


> Hello.  Points all well taken.  Two things I should point out is A:  IF; as a Lead, I look over I see instead of 179 members we now have 180.  I now know I have a new member who may have NEVER posted anything.  Any where.  They just find the forum and join our Group.  Sad I know but I keep a spreadsheet of all the members ( bit behind now ).  So our new Group member now has zero personal touch.  They may be a bit shy and hesitant.  "Just that personal touch".  I said nothing but a Lead took his time to find me and "Welcome" me to the Group and offer any help he can.  Something to draw in new members.  Many times I get ZERO reply but you would be surprised at how many times I receive a BIG Thank You.  Customer service.  B:  The PM the Group allows a Lead to pass on important info to each member of the Group.  I know you guys across the pond also hear it but how else do you contact all members at once?
> 
> I can agree that changes could be made but how do we change and still keep the good points.
> 
> ...



Well said.  I see your point, Danny


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## smokin phil (Aug 25, 2015)

OK all, here's the question in a nutshell: How do you make it perfect? Answer: you can't. 

I've come to the conclusion the UK folks need things as they are now. We can still look at "their stuff". If I ever come across a question I think I can provide a valid answer to, I'll join, post, and probably leave the group shortly afterwards. 

I think the UK folks need this. They're trying to nurse a fire from an ember. I think the best help we can be is to watch and help where you REALLY think you can. 

So, in conclusion, I think it ain't broke, so it don't need fixed.


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## wade (Aug 26, 2015)

The numbers that are being quoted are accurate but a little misleading, however I am not sure that I would agree that the UK group is actually quite as "fragile" as is being suggested.

As of Monday, of the 179 (now 180) registered UK group members only 137 can be positively identified as being in the UK. Many of the others are from the USA and Canada and some are from mainland Europe. Of those 137 UK members, over 20% of them have not logged into the forum for over a year. This may not sound very positive however, as over 50% of our total registered UK membership have logged in over the last 60 days and 40% of the total membership have posted somewhere in the forum, I think this indicates a fairly healthy group.

Over the past 6 months we have seen more new UK members joining than ever before and posting regularly. From October 2012 to February 2015 we saw an average of 3.5 new UK members joining per month whereas in the last 6 months this number has risen to an average of 8.2 per month.

With any forum you are going to get those who come, stay, and post regularly - however you are also going to get those who have an immediate question they need answering, ask a couple of questions and then move on. We also have members that log onto the forum regularly but who choose not to post.

Ensuring that there is regular, quality information is, I think, the most important factor in keeping the membership active. Continual personal communication can be effective with some, but it can also have the opposite effect on others. I know from more than one "ex" member thay felt the PM's they received were very intrusive (akin to receiving unsolicited e-mail) and this resulted in them leaving. Everyone is different and reacts in a different way to different types of approach.

There has been a cult undercurrent of BBQ Smoking in the UK for many years however over the past 12 months the general awareness has grown as a result of increasing media coverage by certain "celebrity" chefs. Now it is quite common to find BBQ featured in popular household magazines. Much of this revolves around BBQ grilling but increasingly this delves into both indirect cooking and basic smoking. Yes, we do provide a good source of information to those who want more in-depth experience of low-and-slow BBQ but we are certainly not the only source available in the UK (although we are obviously the best 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






). The fact that we have several sell-out major festivals here each year that are dedicated to BBQ Smoking, and an increasing number of successful BBQ restaurants, show that there is actually a significant awareness here of our type of BBQ smoking.

Does the type of Smoking/BBQ that people cook the UK have to be the same as what is done in the USA? No of course it doesn't. Just as we (and the Americans) have our own interpretations of Chinese and Indian cuisine, the UK will also develop its own interpretation of smoking meat that best suits the local pallet and the ingredients that we have available here.

It seemed that the impression being portrayed to the US folks on here was that good BBQ didn't exist in the UK and that SMF was its only hope in getting going. This is certainly not the case. Yes we provide increased general awareness and a good service to many home BBQers that want to further develop their home BBQ skills - but low and slow BBQ is certainly already alive and kicking over here in the UK.


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## rabbithutch (Aug 26, 2015)

This exchange has been great.  I certainly learned things and I hope that I made a meaningful contribution.

The whole of it seems to me to be a bit of a tempest in a teacup.  I'm an admitted Anglophile whose ancestors have been predominantly English with some Scots, Irish and Dutch blood thrown in.  Perhaps that explains my interest in, and support for, the UK Group.  As long as they can accomplish goals that are specific to them without excluding those of us on this side of the pond, I see no reason for change.  I kinda like the fact that if a post comes from a group that the group affiliation is shown.  This helps me understand and contribute more appropriately.  Recently I fell into a thread of posts in the Michigan group.  I was about to jump in an give some info when I realized it would be totally worthless to do so.

For as long as the UK Group continues to welcomes our company, we should welcome theirs, in my opinion.  If the day comes when the UK Group feels that we in the US/CA et al are not adding value, then I think we part as friends in the smoke and go our separate ways.  Until then, I think things are working quite well from my perspective.

My 2 cents (or 2 pence), FWIW
rh


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## smokewood (Aug 26, 2015)

Smokin Phil said:


> OK all, here's the question in a nutshell: How do you make it perfect? Answer: you can't.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion the UK folks need things as they are now. We can still look at "their stuff". If I ever come across a question I think I can provide a valid answer to, I'll join, post, and probably leave the group shortly afterwards.
> 
> ...





rabbithutch said:


> This exchange has been great. I certainly learned things and I hope that I made a meaningful contribution.
> 
> The whole of it seems to me to be a bit of a tempest in a teacup. I'm an admitted Anglophile whose ancestors have been predominantly English with some Scots, Irish and Dutch blood thrown in. Perhaps that explains my interest in, and support for, the UK Group. As long as they can accomplish goals that are specific to them without excluding those of us on this side of the pond, I see no reason for change. I kinda like the fact that if a post comes from a group that the group affiliation is shown. This helps me understand and contribute more appropriately. Recently I fell into a thread of posts in the Michigan group. I was about to jump in an give some info when I realized it would be totally worthless to do so.
> 
> ...


The exchange of information has been fantastic and very productive.. Yourself and your fellow countrymen have made a valuable contribution which we are eternally grateful., and we look forward to a lot more threads or replies in the future.


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## kc5tpy (Aug 26, 2015)

Hello.  Well it seems I am in the minority in the U.K. Group.  Wade, Smokin Monkey and smokewood are now Leads.  Have been for 2-3 months.  If they all agree the "joining process"  should be eliminated; who am I to argue?  Democracy at work.  Fair enough.  3 to 1.  The vote has been counted.  I must follow their lead.  I vote we give them what they ask for.  Right; wrong or otherwise the vote of the U.K. Group Leads has been taken.  "WE" think joining Groups should be changed.  Is a TEAM effort.

  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## hman (Sep 26, 2015)

IMG_20150918_122157.jpg



__ hman
__ Sep 26, 2015





Anybody got any help on how to build YouTube burner tube burner need to know how far apart I should make the holes what taps I need what regulator I need to use as well if somebody's got a list of what I need that will really helpful so I can finish off my project thank you for all your time


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## smokin monkey (Sep 27, 2015)

Hi Hitman, the question you are asking is a very specialist area, this is propane gas we are talking about.

If I am honest, you may not get clear answer on this as the legal ramifications if some thing went wrong or someone got injured could be massive.

My mate has made a hog roast machine, I will ask him about hole sizes, positioning and jet sizes.

Also have a look at http://www.birminghamburner.co.uk


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