# Did I make my cure to strong?



## BC Buck (Jun 2, 2020)

Was going to try Pops cure on venison. Mixed up batch of full strength recipe and now realize container with meat in it will only hold 1/2 gallon of water. Will it be OK or do I need to dump 1/2 out and add a quart of fresh water. Also would it be OK to inject into 4" roast.


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## daveomak (Jun 2, 2020)

Get a bigger container...  Do not make 1/2 batches...  There is not enough nitrite in a 1/2 batch to properly cure the meat..


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## bill ace 350 (Jun 2, 2020)

If you mixed a full gallon using the correct amount of cure, you will be good to go.


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## thirdeye (Jun 2, 2020)

BC Buck said:


> Was going to try Pops cure on venison. Mixed up batch of full strength recipe and now realize container with meat in it will only hold 1/2 gallon of water. Will it be OK or do I need to dump 1/2 out and add a quart of fresh water. Also would it be OK to inject into 4" roast.


Are you suggesting diluting the full strength brine?  You don't want to do that, the concentration would be low.    My notes on Pop's brine call for injecting meats >2", and also immersing them. in brine



daveomak said:


> Get a bigger container...  Do not make 1/2 batches...  There is not enough nitrite in a 1/2 batch to properly cure the meat..


It sounds like BC Buck started with a 1 gallon batch, (which would have the proper concentration), but will only be using half of it?


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## thirdeye (Jun 2, 2020)

daveomak said:


> Get a bigger container...  Do not make 1/2 batches...  There is not enough nitrite in a 1/2 batch to properly cure the meat..



Okay, I've been trying to wrap my head around this.  Are you saying a 1/2 batch is a different strength (in PPM) than making a 1 gallon batch?  Or was your reply based on the weight of the meat?

*EDIT - I think I've figured it out, I didn't have the  PPM calculation in front of me, and we don't know the weight of BC Buck's venison. 

EDIT #2 - Back to being partially confused... read posts #21 and #22 in **THIS** thread. *


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## Brokenhandle (Jun 2, 2020)

BC, as long as you mixed a gallon with the proper amount of cure ( 1 Tbsp ) you are good,  as long as the meat is completely submerged. But the meat has to stay completely submerged.  And yes you can inject it. That is the nice thing with pop's brine, as long as you use 1 Tbsp of cure 1 per gallon of water the concentration stays the same.  So in this case if you had a 5 gal bucket and mixed 5 gallons of pops brine using the proper amount of cure 1 per gallon the concentration would be the same...you would just be wasting brine.  The weight of meat does not matter. 

Hope this helps. Now with all that said, I would also get a bigger bucket. 

Ryan


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## Bearcarver (Jun 2, 2020)

Brokenhandle said:


> BC, as long as you mixed a gallon with the proper amount of cure ( 1 Tbsp ) you are good,  as long as the meat is completely submerged. But the meat has to stay completely submerged.  And yes you can inject it. That is the nice thing with pop's brine, as long as you use 1 Tbsp of cure 1 per gallon of water the concentration stays the same.  So in this case if you had a 5 gal bucket and mixed 5 gallons of pops brine using the proper amount of cure 1 per gallon the concentration would be the same...you would just be wasting brine.  The weight of meat does not matter.
> 
> Hope this helps. Now with all that said, I would also get a bigger bucket.
> 
> Ryan




^^^^Agree with this one!^^^^

Bear


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## BC Buck (Jun 2, 2020)

What I did was add correct amount of ingredients for one gallon of water. Container with roast in it would only allow me to add 1/2 gallon of water. Rookie mistake. No room in refrigerator for bigger container.


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## BC Buck (Jun 2, 2020)

BC Buck said:


> What I did was add correct amount of ingredients for one gallon of water. Container with roast in it would only allow me to add 1/2 gallon of water. Rookie mistake. No room in refrigerator for bigger container.


Ok found container that will hold 1 gallon Thanks.


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## daveomak (Jun 3, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> Okay, I've been trying to wrap my head around this.  Are you saying a 1/2 batch is a different strength (in PPM) than making a 1 gallon batch?  Or was your reply based on the weight of the meat?
> 
> *EDIT - I think I've figured it out, I didn't have the  PPM calculation in front of me, and we don't know the weight of BC Buck's venison.
> 
> EDIT #2 - Back to being partially confused... read posts #21 and #22 in **THIS** thread. *



Eye, morning....  Sorry for the delay.... 
A brining/curing solution is not based on Ppm.....   It is based on weight of nitrite, salt, sugar etc....
If you make 1 gallon of brine cure, then only use 1/2 gallon to cure the meat in, you will have half the weight of nitrite...
A table spoon is 3 tea spoons....   1 teaspoon is adequate to cure  5#'s of meat or 5#'s of stuff, including the weight of the brine solution...  That will return ~156Ppm nitrite....  
A proper brine/cure solution is, weigh the meat and water...  If you have 5#'s of water and 10#'s of meat, add 1 TBS of cure#1 and salt and sugar to the brine...   Inject if over 2" thick....


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## PolishDeli (Jun 10, 2020)

A buddy of mine did the same thing recently.  These cartoons helped him understand why it may be a bad idea to use half  the cure:








Slide 1:  Meat in Brine (Meat is white, NaNO2 is pink)
Slide 2:  NaNO2 begins to enter the meat (pink bleeds into white)
Slide 3:  Meat cured.  Equal levels of NaNO2 in the brine and in the meat (pink mixed evenly)



What happens if you only use half of the brine?







Slide 1:  Meat in Brine
Slide 2:  Remove half of the brine
Slide 3:  NaNO2 begins to enter the meat (pink bleeds into white)
Slide 4:  Equal levels of NaNO2 in the brine and in the meat, but it may not be enough for proper cure (pink mixed evenly – but color too pale)


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## Bearcarver (Jun 10, 2020)

thirdeye said:


> Okay, I've been trying to wrap my head around this.  Are you saying a 1/2 batch is a different strength (in PPM) than making a 1 gallon batch?  Or was your reply based on the weight of the meat?
> 
> *EDIT - I think I've figured it out, I didn't have the  PPM calculation in front of me, and we don't know the weight of BC Buck's venison.
> 
> EDIT #2 - Back to being partially confused... read posts #21 and #22 in **THIS** thread. *




Actually on that Posts # 21 & #22 confusion, SmokinAl was right & it was confirmed by Pops:
As long as you have the proper ratio of Cure #1 to Water, it doesn't matter how much the meat weighs, as long as there is enough of that liquid Mix to cover the meat you are curing.

Bear


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## bill ace 350 (Jun 10, 2020)

That's exactly what I think.


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## daveomak (Jun 10, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> Actually on that Posts # 21 & #22 confusion, SmokinAl was right & it was confirmed by Pops:
> As long as you have the proper ratio of Cure #1 to Water, *it doesn't matter how much the meat weighs,* as long as there is enough of that liquid Mix to cover the meat you are curing.
> 
> Bear




That's not correct...  The nitrite is shared between the liquid and the meat....  same as sugars and salts..
Think of it this way....
You have 200 Ppm nitrite in 10#'s of water....   You add 10#'s of clean water to that container....  The Ppm in the new mix is 100 Ppm.....


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## bill ace 350 (Jun 10, 2020)

daveomak said:


> That's not correct...  The nitrite is shared between the liquid and the meat....  same as sugars and salts..
> Think of it this way....
> You have 200 Ppm nitrite in 10#'s of water....   You add 10#'s of clean water to that container....  The Ppm in the new mix is 100 Ppm.....


So if you have 200 Ppm nitrite in 10#'s of water and split it into 2 5# containers,  you still have the same concentration in each.

I guess I'm not sure the OP diluted his mixture based on his post.


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## daveomak (Jun 10, 2020)

_Was going to try Pops cure on venison. Mixed up batch of full strength recipe and now realize container with meat in it will only hold 1/2 gallon of water. Will it be OK or do I need to dump 1/2 out and add a quart of fresh water _

I'm not sure what he did either....

Bill, morning....  It's not the Ppm that cures the meat...  It's the weight of the nitrite available to cure the meat to attain ~156 Ppm....  
If you add 1.1 grams cure#1 per pound of meat or 1 tsp. cure#1 per 5#'s of meat,  then add more meat without more cure#1, the math doesn't work...   Also, if you have 1 tsp. of cure#1 ready to add to your 5# roast, and decide to add on 1/2 tsp., the math doesn't work...


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## bill ace 350 (Jun 10, 2020)

daveomak said:


> _Was going to try Pops cure on venison. Mixed up batch of full strength recipe and now realize container with meat in it will only hold 1/2 gallon of water. Will it be OK or do I need to dump 1/2 out and add a quart of fresh water _
> 
> I'm not sure what he did either....
> 
> ...


I see it now. The quart of fresh water. Thanks.


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## Bearcarver (Jun 10, 2020)

daveomak said:


> That's not correct...  The nitrite is shared between the liquid and the meat....  same as sugars and salts..
> Think of it this way....
> You have 200 Ppm nitrite in 10#'s of water....   You add 10#'s of clean water to that container....  The Ppm in the new mix is 100 Ppm.....




Sorry Dave, 
I double checked with 

 pops
 before I posted that.
He said if anybody doesn't understand it, I should send them to him.
So I'm sending you to Pops, before you confuse any more people.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Jun 10, 2020)

daveomak said:


> That's not correct...  The nitrite is shared between the liquid and the meat....  same as sugars and salts..
> Think of it this way....
> You have 200 Ppm nitrite in 10#'s of water....   You add 10#'s of clean water to that container....  The Ppm in the new mix is 100 Ppm.....



Who said anything about adding 10#s of clean water to a mix.
The fact is like I said, AS LONG AS THE PROPER MIX BETWEEN CURE #1 & Water stays the same, it doesn't matter what the meat weighs, as long as the meat is submerged.
The weight of the meat doesn't matter. If you add another gallon of water, you have to also add the proper amount of Cure with it. But you don't have to weigh the meat !!

Bear


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## smokerjim (Jun 10, 2020)

got to agree with you bear, i've used pop's brine quite a few times and as per pops there is no need to weigh the meat, which I never did,  as long as it's submerged your good to go. never had a problem.


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## daveomak (Jun 10, 2020)

Bear, Jim....  Try to make heads or tails out of this excerpt from the FSIS.....



			https://www.aamp.com/foodsafety/documents/Directive7620-3.pdf
		


One obstacle that inspection personnel encounter in ascertaining restricted ingredient compliance with the regulations, is that calculations for allowable ingoing amounts could be based on one of five different weights, all of which are referred to in various places in the MPI regulations.  These different weights vary according to the type of ingredient, type of product, and purpose of the ingredient's use in the product.  The five weights (or bases for restricted ingredient calculations) are:
! The "green weight" of the meat and/or poultry and/or meat and/or poultry byproduct (meat block) component of the product at formulation.
Example:
< *The ingoing amount of nitrite and nitrate used in comminuted, pumped, injected, massaged, dry-cured, and immersion-cured products is based on the weight of the meat, poultry, meat byproduct, or poultry byproduct at the time of formulation and are controlled on an ingoing basis*


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## smokerjim (Jun 10, 2020)

i'm sure there are people who can make sense of that but I barely made it out of high school, so i'll just trust pop's and  add a tablespoon of #1, some salt and sugar to a gallon a water add meat, inject if needed and smoke away. it hasn't killed me yet!


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## bill ace 350 (Jun 10, 2020)

smokerjim said:


> i'm sure there are people who can make sense of that but I barely made it out of high school, so i'll just trust pop's and  add a tablespoon of #1, some salt and sugar to a gallon a water add meat, inject if needed and smoke away. it hasn't killed me yet!



I have used Pop's recipe for years as well.

I recall reading something about how New York State had approved of the safety and effectiveness of Pop's father's recipe in his commercial operation. 

I wish Pops would chime in.....


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## smokerjim (Jun 10, 2020)

bill ace 350 said:


> I have used Pop's recipe for years as well.
> 
> I recall reading something about how New York State had approved of the safety and effectiveness of Pop's father's recipe in his commercial operation.
> 
> I wish Pops would chime in.....


i'm not positive but I think he explains it all just click on his brine under his how too's


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## BC Buck (Jun 11, 2020)

Ok not sure what happened to my roast. After Daveomak post my ratios would be off and needed to use one gallon of water I dumped out and made fresh batch. Roast was in strong solution for about 8 hours.  New batch 1 gallon water,3/4 cup salt,1/2 cup brown sugar,1 tbs #1 cure, and other seasonings. First batch I did not inject but fresh batch I injected because roast was 4" thick. After 6 days rinsed for about 1 hour, rubbed with pastrami seasoning and smoked to IT of 145 deg. Looked great but tasted like salt shaker. Thought out side edge was to salty from first batch. So cut center out of meat and was just as salty and had to pitch roast. Back to the drawing board.


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## JC in GB (Jun 11, 2020)

PolishDeli said:


> A buddy of mine did the same thing recently.  These cartoons helped him understand why it may be a bad idea to use half  the cure:
> 
> 
> View attachment 448839
> ...



If this is true then dry curing shouldn't work.  ?????

JC


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## PolishDeli (Jun 11, 2020)

Guys,
Dave's comments are correct and supported by the literature.  Feel free to use pops brine, and never think twice about it.  You’ll get good results. But curing meats is a complicated topic, and Dave was trying to help with details.

If you look at the equation for equilibrium curing, the weight of the meat is important.







Using that equation, Pops method makes a brine that is 300ppm NaNO2.  
1lb meat cures to 265ppm NaNO2
5lb meat cure to 185ppm NaNO2
10lb meat cure to 135ppm NaNO2

However:
I trust  Pops experience and observations that the weight of the meat does not impact the amount of curing.  I also believe my own measurements that cure levels do not equilibrate.  Therefore, the correct equation to use is this one:







But that means you are only getting around 30ppm NaNO2 cure levels in your meat if you are using Pops brine.  That enough to get the job done, but definitely on the very low side.



BC Buck said:


> ...rubbed with pastrami seasoning and smoked to IT of 145 deg. Looked great but tasted like salt shaker.



My guess is that the pastrami seasoning is your culprit.  Did you buy it premixed?  Probably has lots of salt.


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## JC in GB (Jun 11, 2020)

PolishDeli said:


> Guys,
> Dave's comments are correct and supported by the literature.  Feel free to use pops brine, and never think twice about it.  You’ll get good results. But curing meats is a complicated topic, and Dave was trying to help with details.
> 
> If you look at the equation for equilibrium curing, the weight of the meat is important.
> ...




Agreed...

You can't go wrong if you do everything by weight IMHO.  I have never had a bad cure using weight for all ingredient inputs.

Toss the US system and go metric, it is so much easier on the brain....

JC


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## PolishDeli (Jun 11, 2020)

JC in GB said:


> If this is true then dry curing shouldn't work. ?????



In the cartoon, cure is being removed along with the water.  
In dry cuing, there is no water there in the first place. 
So, in terms of the cartoon:  imagine that water is being removed by evaporation, instead of being removed by ladle.


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## daveomak (Jun 11, 2020)

Buck, morning...   Sorry you had to throw the roast out because of salt.....
I experienced the same thing years ago...   I overcame that problem by weighing stuff....
The recipe to use is....  (weigh stuff in grams..  Pounds and Ounces is a witch to convert)
Weigh the meat....  Weigh the water at 1/2 the weight of the meat...
Total those 2 weights and add 1.75% salt (X 0.0175), 2% sugar (X0.020), and 0.25% cure#1 (X0.0025)..   Dissolve those well in the water and inject all the brine the meat will hold and submerge the meat in the rest of the brine/cure and refer for a week or 2....
Your results will be consistent and no more throwing away meat....  And the numbers are in line with the FDA and FSIS....
As an example....
A  4# roast (X 454) hunk of meat weighs ~1800 grams...  Water at ~900 grams = ~ 2700 grms...
2700 X 0.0175 = 47 grams salt
2700 X 0.02 = 54 grams sugar
2700 X 0.0025 = ~6.75 grams cure#1
Dissolve the above in the 900 grams of water..
If you injected 1/2 the brine/cure, that salt would only be ~1.3%, sugar ~1.5% and the cure#1 would be ~120 Ppm nitrite....   Continuing the soak in the remaining brine will elevate those numbers to ~2%, ~2% and 156 Ppm nitrite respectively....
The salt difference between 1.75% and 2% is due to the cure#1 having 0.25% salt...
All will be good....

Using this method, a 2-2.5 gallon zip bag will hold all the stuff...   There will not be enough liquid to submerge the meat in a bucket...  Turn the bag every couple days...  Have the bag in a plastic tub in the event it breaks...

Dave


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## daveomak (Jun 11, 2020)

The scale I use for weighing small amounts... $12 ...






Click on this link...

0-100 grams scale at Amazon


...


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## JC in GB (Jun 11, 2020)

daveomak said:


> Buck, morning...   Sorry you had to throw the roast out because of salt.....
> I experienced the same thing years ago...   I overcame that problem by weighing stuff....
> The recipe to use is....  (weigh stuff in grams..  Pounds and Ounces is a witch to convert)
> Weigh the meat....  Weigh the water at 1/2 the weight of the meat...
> ...



This is the method I use for nearly all my curing.  It is consistent and I never have to worry about my meat being too salty.  You can tailor the salt and sugar percentages to your taste.

I find 1.75% salt is perfect

Thanks 

 daveomak
  for helping me get the information that finally got me to understand the math behind it all.

"Only through mathematics shall we find truth." Dr. Who

JC


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## Bearcarver (Jun 11, 2020)

daveomak said:


> Bear, Jim....  Try to make heads or tails out of this excerpt from the FSIS.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don't worry about any of that type of Yammering calculation BS. It's not needed.

I know 2 things:
#1  When I Dry cure, I use TQ, and Weigh the pieces so I know how much TQ to use when curing. Then I measure the thicknesses of the pieces to tell me how long to keep them in cure.

#2. If I want to Brine cure with Cure #1 I will use Pops' Method, and mix the cure #1 and water according to his proven recipe. If I make sure all of the meat is submerged in his Brine, I don't care what the Meat weighs. I'll use my same method for length of time in cure.

It's all as simple as that.

Bear


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## daveomak (Jun 11, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> I don't worry about any of that type of Yammering calculation BS. It's not needed.
> 
> Bear



It's unfortunate you place such little regard for scientific formulations when curing meats...  You have a great following of members that trust your leadership, in knowing how to cure meat safely and properly...


.....


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## Bearcarver (Jun 11, 2020)

daveomak said:


> It's unfortunate you place such little regard for scientific formulations when curing meats...  You have a great following of members that trust your leadership, in knowing how to cure meat safely and properly...
> 
> 
> .....




It's unfortunate we aren't all geniuses & know everything, like yourself & have to use one of two proven methods that work every time, because the calculations aren't needed.

Bear


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## gary s (Jun 11, 2020)

I didn't go back to the beginning and read every post, just picked up on the last several post.
So is Dave saying Pop's is wrong ? and you shouldn't use TQ ?  I'm a TQ guy, when I first started I contacted Morton's and asked about their TQ, They sent me a recipe book and assured me that if I followed their directions I would be fine. That was about 10 years ago and I'm still alive and kicking.

Gary


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## thirdeye (Jun 11, 2020)

For many years before I became a member on this forum I cruised numerous threads and realized that when it came to combined wisdom on sausage and curing.... this was the place.  that said, it's appropriate to say a general...* thanks to everyone for sharing what you know.  *

I'm notorious for having reference material, and for taking notes and although I'm not a science guy I enjoy understanding the rules and the various calculations behind behind things like canning,  pickling, curing, sous vide etc.  Especially when sharing my food with guests and friends.

For personal tastes I prefer dry curing (trout, steelhead, salmon, jerky, bacon, pastrami, Buckboard, etc.) and use both Tender Quick and Cure #1 for various applications.  I have never ventured into the dry curing of un-cooked products like salami or Italian meats which call for using Cure #2, but I understand the technique.

When I got interested in a wet  curing, I followed the old Morton's Handbook, and when I came upon Pop's Brine it seemed to make sense, and my notes have snips about his father proving the technique to state inspectors, and I bought in to the lower amounts of Cure #1 and longer cure times, as I have advocated the use of injectable LiteBrines  (flavor brine) for many years.  I too have had successful curing results when using Pop's Brine, and recommended it to others. But.... my notes reference 10 to 12 pounds of meat for the one gallon mixture, and there is mention of injecting when the thickness is 2" or greater.  All that said, the next thing on my bucket list is a Daveomak ham, the recipe using the vegetable stock injection.  I'm just waiting on Amesphos to come off back order.

Is there more than one way to skin a cat?  Can we learn and improve by sharing information?  I think so, I've witnessed it my entire life.


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## chopsaw (Jun 11, 2020)

I was using TQ long before I joined here , and I was using it in the wrong amounts . The first thing I cured was a pork loin using Bear's directions , and learned the right way to use it . 
In the spirit of learning , I've tried other ways as well . I have my choice of different ways to cure depending on the protein used . 
Pop's is so simple , and no weighing needed , and it works . I love it on poultry , and no need to use anything else . It just flat out works , and simple to do for everyone . Great for a beginner . 
Dave's phosphate injection for ham is insanely good . I use the calculator that another member provided , because I'm not Jimmy Neutron . 
I've also used TQ as a pickle / wet brine . Works , but tends to be salty using their directions . 
I've done hams , chickens and pork loins using all 3 of these methods , and have a favorite for each one . I'm all about safe , but safe and simple is better , way better . 



thirdeye said:


> next thing on my bucket list is a DaveOmak ham, the recipe using the vegetable stock injection.


You won't be sorry . It is the best ham I've eaten . I suggest doing the math , but if you need a link to the calculator I can find it for you .


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## thirdeye (Jun 11, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> I was using TQ long before I joined here , and I was using it in the wrong amounts . The first thing I cured was a pork loin using Bear's directions , and learned the right way to use it .
> In the spirit of learning , I've tried other ways as well . I have my choice of different ways to cure depending on the protein used .
> Pop's is so simple , and no weighing needed , and it works . I love it on poultry , and no need to use anything else . It just flat out works , and simple to do for everyone . Great for a beginner .
> Dave's phosphate injection for ham is insanely good . I use the calculator that another member provided , because I'm not Jimmy Neutron .
> ...



Like I said, I'm a sponge.... I've got that Excel file.  I can't wait.


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## Brokenhandle (Jun 11, 2020)

I feel the the most important thing is curing everything safely.  When I was just lurking I learned from 

 Bearcarver
  how to use tenderquick and from 

 pops6927
  on how to use his way that he got from his dad. Both ways are proven safe.  Now I understand the mathematics are important but when I was just lurking here that confused the heck out of me. Even now that I'm not such a newbie, it can still confuse me...so think of what it does do for anyone that's new, unless they do or can understand the mathematics.  We are all here to help them out, to learn and understand how to cure properly and safely.  

I sure appreciate everything I have learned on this site from alot of people. 

Ryan


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## daveomak (Jun 11, 2020)

gary s said:


> I didn't go back to the beginning and read every post, just picked up on the last several post.
> So is Dave saying Pop's is wrong ? and you shouldn't use TQ ?  I'm a TQ guy, when I first started I contacted Morton's and asked about their TQ, They sent me a recipe book and assured me that if I followed their directions I would be fine. That was about 10 years ago and I'm still alive and kicking.
> 
> Gary




TQ was never any part of my conversation and I never said Pops was wrong...


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## pops6927 (Jun 11, 2020)

Let me present this photo of the intructions from a package of cure #1:







Do you seer where it says : "... 24 pounds of curing salt  to 100 gallons of water ..."?
take 24 lbs x 16 oz per pound = 384 oz. per 100 gallons of water.  That is THE MAXIMUM concentration allowed by Federal Law.  Reducing it down proportionally, that is 3.84 oz. of curing salt per 1 gallon of water MAXIMUM allowed.  But, my dad PROVED to the NYS Inspectors (no Federal Inspectors way back then in the 1940's and 50's) that a milder cure was sufficient to fully cure meat products by letting them cure longer in a lower concentration curing brine!  Thus, that is how he made his more tender, juicier hams and bacons!  And, I did tests over a 2 year period trying  to find his "perfect Mix" of curing salt to water ratio and developed "Pop's Curing Brine" of 1 oz. (heaping tablespoon - a level tablespoon of curing salt is .88 of an oz.. but a heaping tablespoon is 1 oz.)) of curing salt to 1 gallon of water.   Now yes, you could do 2 oz. or 3 oz. or the maximum 3'84 oz, to cure your products in a shorter time frame, but risk making the meat more rubbery and less tender than at the milder cure ratio of 1 oz. per gallon of concentration.
Likewise, I have cured 1 chicken leg in a 55 gallon bucket of curing brine as well  as a whole chicken in 1 gallon of curing brine for the same amount of time, and they both turned out exactly the same!  Proving it is NOT the VOLUME, but the CONCENTRATION of the curing brine that is required!  Debunking the idiom of having to weigh the meat, the water, the other ingredients, etc.  to make a successful curing brine.
Injection with the curing brine is at 2" per thickness of meat - actually a 2" x 2" area for sufficient coverage.
A 10% pump is about the most a meat can absorb without leaking out through natural seams.  That is weighing the meat prior to injection, then weighing the meat post injection and calculating the increase in weight, about 10%.
Their are producers that will do a 15% or 20% pump (like cooked deli hams), but it is truly watery garbage!  Stick with 10% whenever available!  (Of course, that is net weight after cooking and processing).  My dad's hams were below original weights consistently!
May I answer any other questions?
Thank you!


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## pops6927 (Jun 11, 2020)

Now, I have successfully injected and cured and smoked a side loin of pork into Canadian Bacon using ONLY 1 gallon of water and 1 oz. of cure #1 and ½ cup  of Stevia sugar, proving my curing brine is effective!




__





						"Clear Pickle" Ultra Lo-Salt Canadian Bacon
					

Ok, I can only have under 1500 mg of salt per day (a small teaspoon or less).  So, I am experimenting again, like I did with Pop's Curing Brine, using only the salt contained in the Cure #1 ingredient!  I also added ½ cup of sugar substitute (Stevia) 0 calorie.  I named it "Pop's Clear Pickle...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## JC in GB (Jun 12, 2020)

pops6927 said:


> Let me present this photo of the intructions from a package of cure #1:
> View attachment 449029
> 
> 
> ...



I don't understand the debate here.  The mathematics is clear.  The Pop's brine formula clearly puts you in the safe range for NaNo3 concentration.  I would surely use it if I was curing larger quantities of meat.

I learned from 

 disco
 that as long as you are following safety guidelines you are doing it right.  So many just want to pick fly shit out of the pepper.   

Thanks Pops.....

JC


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## Bearcarver (Jun 12, 2020)

Thank You Pops!!
You explained it simply & perfectly right here:
*Likewise, I have cured 1 chicken leg in a 55 gallon bucket of curing brine as well as a whole chicken in 1 gallon of curing brine for the same amount of time, and they both turned out exactly the same! Proving it is NOT the VOLUME, but the CONCENTRATION of the curing brine that is required! Debunking the idiom of having to weigh the meat, the water, the other ingredients, etc. to make a successful curing brine.*

This is why when somebody comes to me, and they say they want to use Cure #1 in a Brine cure, I send them to Pops, so they can use his "Tried & True" Method. By the same token, I've had people come to me who were sent by Pops. Pops does a lot of Awesome stuff with his curing Method, and I always enjoy reading & reviewing his Threads.

The reason so many people come to me & Pops is "simple"---Yup, We make it "Simple":
I make my Step by Steps Simple to read, Simple to follow, and Simple to duplicate, even for a Newbie, who knows absolutely nothing about Smoking or Curing. They can just follow what is in my Step by Step, and go from start to finish, and end up with an Awesome Product, and get there safely.
By the same Token, Pops' Method couldn't be any easier either, when all you have to do is put the right amount of Cure #1 into the right amount of Water, some other seasonings, and some sugar of some sort. Inject some cure if it's more than 2" Thick. Then make sure the meat is all completely submerged for the right length of time at the right Temp. 

These two methods are like I said easy for a Newbie to get started. Once you do either of these a couple times, with success under your belt, you can either keep going with either of these methods, or you can try some of the harder methods, which is why I have sent some people to Dave, if they wanted to cure a Whole Ham from scratch, because I don't do Whole Hams from scratch.  If I want a Smoked Ham, I always get a Smoked Ham Portion from a Food Market for about a Buck a pound. Then I Smoke it again to make it the Best Tasting "Double Smoked Ham" on the planet (IMHO).

And as for Science---I believe in science---I just prefer to do my Curing & Smoking the easy, Safe, and Tasty way, as stated above.

I also believe in science when it comes to Global Warming.
And also the science that says we should not be ignoring the fact that the current pandemic is getting worse every day. 
Mrs Bear & I are still sheltering in place, since the very beginning, and will continue.

Bear


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## pops6927 (Jun 12, 2020)

Thank you, Bear, we both want to make curing and smoking simple for everyone to enjoy!  Dry or wet brining, it is all good!


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## bill ace 350 (Jun 12, 2020)

Pops, Bear, thank you both so much for sharing your techniques and recipes.

I have made bacon and Canadian bacon using both of your recipes with excellent results!

I used Pops recipe for my hams, with excellent results as well.

Both of you unselfishly give your recipes. which  have proven to be safe while yielding excellent results.

KISS.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

Not to say that other proven advice should be ignored, just that sometimes people get carried away and overcomplicate things.


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