# Sugar Free Curing?



## eggieroe

It seems like all recipes for curing brines include some form of sugar.  I try to adhere to a low-carb, minimally processed diet, so I'd love to be able to cure things without it.  Is this a necessary ingredient for safety or is it merely for taste?


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## pc farmer

Its just for taste.  It helps cut the salty taste down.  From my understanding.


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## atomicsmoke

EggieRoe said:


> It seems like all recipes for curing brines include some form of sugar.  I try to adhere to a low-carb, minimally processed diet, so I'd love to be able to cure things without it.  Is this a necessary ingredient for safety or is it merely for taste?


It is not a must. Some people like the sweet hint with bacon, salmon, etc. Others use sugar to counteract some saltiness.

I don't use sugar in my cures.


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## daveomak

I keep reading sugar is necessary....   Can't find a reason....  Maybe because it is hygroscopic and keeps water in the meat for the salt and cure to work...   Darned if I know.....  Even 100+ years ago, sugar was a must...    Morton's TQ has sugar in it.....

For controlling the amount of sugar and carbs...  use cure #1...  I add 1% sugar to my curing stuff...  if you eat a pound of meat, there is only 4.5 grams of sugar in that pound at 1% sugar....













MORTON tender quick.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jan 9, 2017


















RopyStringyBrine1.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jan 9, 2017


















RopyStringyBrine2.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jan 9, 2017


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## atomicsmoke

I am not aware of any scientific study showing meats cured with sugar are safer than those without. I will gladly retract my statements if presented with one.

Sugar in savory dishes and cured products is mainly a New World thing. 

Classic cure recipes  from 100+ year ago from Eastern Europe don't have sugar in the ingredients list. Back then sugar was only use for deserts, moonshine and fruit preserves.

P.s. sugar is good to kick-start bacterial cultures in sausages. I use it for that but not to cure.


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## scubohuntr

Sugar is hygroscopic, a bit. A little sugar enhances browning, too. It is just for taste in most things (takes some of the "bite" out of the salt), but it is essential for fermented sausages like salami and even summer sausage. It feeds the bacteria that produce the lactic acid. Without sugar (glucose or dextrose rather than sucrose) the _Lactobacillus_ don't take off, it takes too long to get the pH down and you run a real risk of really bad bugs (_Salmonella_, _Listeria_, _E. coli_) growing instead. It can have chemical effects, also. I used to make jerky with a 50:50 brown sugar/soy sauce marinade, and if you leave it in too long, you get really dark, caramelized, brittle jerky with almost no meat texture left to it. With only soy sauce, it just gets saltier.

The problem I am having is my wife is allergic to corn, so dextrose is out. I need to find a non-corn alternative.


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## crankybuzzard

Stevia maybe?  However, it's a LOT sweeter than sugar...


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## Bearcarver

I use TQ and added Brown Sugar when I cure things.

I don't know the science of it---I just started using that stuff when I started curing about 7 years ago.

I never get anything that's too salty, and I never taste any Sugar, so I just keep using the same amounts.

Bear


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## wade

Hi EggieRow. 

You specifically mention about using it in a curing brine and so I am assuming that this is an immersion brine. 

There is no SINGLE ingredient in a brine that is essential as it will depend on the end product that you are trying to achieve with the brine - although by definition most "brines" do contain salt.

If you were brining, say, your Thanksgiving turkey you are mainly doing this to enhance the flavour and texture and not to act as a preservative. In this case the meat remains chilled while it is in the brine and remains so until it is cooked and eaten. In this situation you can put whatever you like in the brine (that you are prepared to eat) and it will be purely be for flavour and down to your individual pallet. Salt is usually used though as it helps the meat take up and then retain water whilst it is cooking making it a more tender. 

If you were using the brine as a "cure" then you would need to be more aware of the preservative nature of each of the brine components and how they work before you consider deviating from a recipe.

The primary curing agent is the Salt and this works in two ways. In sufficient concentrations this will remove water from the bacteria cells thus inhibiting their growth or causing them to die. When used in a dry brine salt will also also draw out water from the meat cells, reducing the overall available water (Water Activity) of the final product. This reduction of available water in the meat also inhibits bacterial growth.

As has been said above, the sugar is not a requirement but is mainly there to balance the salt taste. Sugar does also have an antibacterial effect under certain conditions as it will bind free water within the meat thus making it unavailable for bacteria to use. In an immersion brine though this minor preservative effect will be swamped by the significant increase of water in the meat taken up from the brine itself (up to about 10%). Unless you take subsequent steps to reduce the overall water content of the meat, any preservative effect of the sugar will be negligible and it is mainly there for flavour and to balance the taste of the salt.

You did not mention Nitrite/Nitrate but I will, as this is also an optional component of a brine depending on what you are trying to produce. If you are looking to store the resulting product at room temperature or for more than about 10 days refrigerated or the production process involves periods where it will not remain chilled (e.g. being smoked) then you WILL generally need to add Nitrite/Nitrite as a protection against anaerobic spores like Botulinum, however for products that are processed and stored chilled with a short shelf life then it is optional. Even if not added for its preservative properties the Nitrite is sometimes added simply for generating a distinctive ham/bacon flavour.


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## mowin

I use Stevia in my brines. I've used it for bacon, ven pastrami, (w cure #1).
Brined chickens overnight (no cure), with great results.  I do think its sweeter than sugar, so I cut the amount. If my brine calls for 1 cup sugar, I'll use 2/3 cup stevia.


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## poindexter

mowin said:


> I use Stevia in my brines. I've used it for bacon, ven pastrami, (w cure #1).
> Brined chickens overnight (no cure), with great results.  I do think its sweeter than sugar, so I cut the amount. If my brine calls for 1 cup sugar, I'll use 2/3 cup stevia.




Would you mind sharing your stevia brine recipe? I’m doing pastrami next week? Also wondering if the same bring would work for cold smoked salmon? The stevia your using is the powdered stuff? 2/3 a cup seems like a lot to me.. but I’ve only used it in coffee and it’s less than a pinch.


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## biteme7951

Pop's brine has an option for Splenda, though I imagine you could use any sugar substitute as the replacement of sugar. Just know your sugar/substitute ratio.

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/pops6927s-wet-curing-brine.110799/

Barry.


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## mowin

poindexter said:


> Would you mind sharing your stevia brine recipe? I’m doing pastrami next week? Also wondering if the same bring would work for cold smoked salmon? The stevia your using is the powdered stuff? 2/3 a cup seems like a lot to me.. but I’ve only used it in coffee and it’s less than a pinch.



The last batch I made I used 
1 tablespoon cure#1, for each gal of water.
1/2 cup sea salt
1/2 cup stevia. (Yes powered).
I'm a sauce pan bring a cup or two of water and 1/3 cup pickling spices to a boil. Remove from heat and let cool. This release the oils and flavors from the pickling spices. Add that to your brine.  I brined my venison roasts for 14 days.  The salt to sugar ratio seemed a little better than my last batch which I used 2/3 cup


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## poindexter

mowin said:


> The last batch I made I used
> 1 tablespoon cure#1, for each gal of water.
> 1/2 cup sea salt
> 1/2 cup stevia. (Yes powered).
> I'm a sauce pan bring a cup or two of water and 1/3 cup pickling spices to a boil. Remove from heat and let cool. This release the oils and flavors from the pickling spices. Add that to your brine.  I brined my venison roasts for 14 days.  The salt to sugar ratio seemed a little better than my last batch which I used 2/3 cup




Awesome thanks, So this is the stevia I have should I use the 1/2 a cup of it since its an extract?

http://a.co/5GUyw2k

Also do you think this would work well to cold smoke some salmon?


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## mowin

poindexter said:


> Awesome thanks, So this is the stevia I have should I use the 1/2 a cup of it since its an extract?
> 
> http://a.co/5GUyw2k
> 
> Also do you think this would work well to cold smoke some salmon?



I've cold smoked bellies with stevia. Haven't used the brand u posted, but can't see why it wouldn't work.  

Never smoked salmon, so please let me know how it turns out.


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## Ed Crain

My first belly was done with TQ and Splenda brown sugar and it turned out great


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## mski2

Bearcarver said:


> I use TQ and added Brown Sugar when I cure things.
> 
> I don't know the science of it---I just started using that stuff when I started curing about 7 years ago.
> 
> I never get anything that's too salty, and I never taste any Sugar, so I just keep using the same amounts.
> 
> Bear


TQ has Nitrate in it a NO NO for bacon


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## pc farmer

mski2 said:


> TQ has Nitrate in it a NO NO for bacon




I use it for  my HOME use.


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## mski2

c farmer said:


> WRONG.


https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...at-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index
Read *Does bacon contain additives?*


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## wade

It is true that TQ does contain Nitrate (as well as Nitrite) and that Nitrate is not permitted for use in commercially produced bacon.


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## daveomak

Regardless of the curing method used, restricted ingredient calculations for bacon are based on
the green weight of the skinless belly. For rind-on bacon, e.g., where the skin is sold as part of
the finished product, a restricted ingredient conversion calculation is necessary. *Nitrate is no
longer permitted in any curing method for bacon.*







	

		
			
		

		
	
 ....


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## pc farmer

I still use TQ to home cure some


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## daveomak

Why are you saying "WRONG" to that statement ???




c farmer said:


> WRONG.


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## pc farmer

daveomak said:


> Why are you saying "WRONG" to that statement ???



He said its a no no for curing bacon.   It works for curing bacon


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## daveomak

NITRATE is not allowed when curing bacon by the USDA....

He said NITRATE is a no-no when curing bacon and he was/is correct....


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## pc farmer

OK.   I will edit my post.


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## daveomak

Don't edit your post....  Doing that will disrupt this conversation...


biteme, posted this....   https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...at-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index  ...

In it is a statement that everyone should heed....
*GLOSSARY OF BACON TERMS *

*BABY FOOD WITH FRESH BACON:* Bacon without nitrites must be shown in the ingredients statement as bacon (water, salt, sugar, etc., without nitrates or nitrites). Nitrites and nitrates are not acceptable in baby and toddler foods. (Nitrate is prohibited in all bacon.)

nitrites can cause "blue baby" syndrome...  a deadly condition in infants....


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## wade

It is not permitted for COMMERCIALLY produced bacon. I fully understand that we follow USDA guidelines on here but as TQ is a commercially available product that is advertised for curing meat (including bacon) we cannot say that it cannot be used in a non-commercial production environment. Maybe you need to contact Morton Dave and get them to change the marketing of their product.


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## wade

Btw Dave - Thanks for re-posting the link that Mski2 had already posted. It is a very interesting article.


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## biteme7951

wade said:


> It is not permitted for COMMERCIALLY produced bacon. I fully understand that we follow USDA guidelines on here but as TQ is a commercially available product that is advertised for curing meat (including bacon) we cannot say that it cannot be used in a non-commercial production environment. Maybe you need to contact Morton Dave and get them to change the marketing of their product.



They already did.....

Per the Morton site TQ is NOT recommended for bacon.

"We cannot recommend Morton Tender Quick for use with pork belly or bacon. Due to the differing fat content of individual cuts, the curing time for these items may vary significantly. For this reason, we cannot recommend the appropriate amount of Tender Quick or curing time in this application."

https://www.mortonsalt.com/home-product/morton-tender-quick/

Barry


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## wade

:) It is good to see that they are now including this warning. Unfortunately they do not also confirm that it is a result of it containing Nitrate :(. It is a pity that this warning does not seem to have yet reached many of their product resellers...


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## wade

"We cannot recommend Morton Tender Quick for use with pork belly or bacon. Due to the differing fat content of individual cuts, the curing time for these items may vary significantly. For this reason, we cannot recommend the appropriate amount of Tender Quick or curing time in this application."

I have never been a fan of TQ but this statement suggests that TQ should not be used with any meat that does not have known percentage of fat. Or are they suggesting that this is an issue with specifically pork fat?


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## wade

I have requested Morton to clarify this statement and will post any reply that I receive.


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## biteme7951

Hard to imagine what went on in their legal dept to come up with that statement, but "my" assumption would be any meat with an excessive amount of fat would (or should) be included in that statement. I am not a fan of TQ either due to the excessive salt content, but when I first started smoking 40 years ago that was the only thing I could get my hands on and this site (or the internet for that matter) was not invented to use as a resource.  I still have a bag in the cupboard and pull it out occasionally for Canadian bacon.

Barry.


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## daveomak

Home processors can use, or not use, any product they like....  I'm not suggesting TQ can't be used...   Only that the FDA does not allow nitrates in bacon...
The FDA, to my knowledge, has NEVER attempted to regulate home use of ANY product....  I think that can be inferred from the fact Morton's products were NOT regulated when this whole nitrate fiasco was born...
Vegetables have lots of nitrates... More than bacon...   Did the FDA make broiling, grilling or frying vegetables illegal in commercial restaurants ??  I love broiled, grilled and fired veggies...  Provides a new dimension of flavor...


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## mski2

From what I remember in the 70's the bacon cancer scare was nitrates used in bacon were not broken down fully like nitrates would, then high temperatures would create nitrosamine 
Mark


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## browneyesvictim

Im missing something.... WHY is Nitrates not allowed by the FDA? Is it because of the nitrosamine issue?

If you dry cure/age belly with nitrates and call it pancetta that's ok.... and even eat it raw.


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## mski2

biteme7951 said:


> Hard to imagine what went on in their legal dept to come up with that statement, but "my" assumption would be any meat with an excessive amount of fat would (or should) be included in that statement. I am not a fan of TQ either due to the excessive salt content, but when I first started smoking 40 years ago that was the only thing I could get my hands on and this site (or the internet for that matter) was not invented to use as a resource.  I still have a bag in the cupboard and pull it out occasionally for Canadian bacon.
> 
> Barry.


In the 70's the cancer scare from nitrosamine produced from overcooking or burning bacon . Using Nitrates in bacon didn't give it time to break down like Nitrates, So thats how I remember it Bacon is usually not cured for months, Pancetta is not fried usually
Mark


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## atomicsmoke

mski2 said:


> From what I remember in the 70's the bacon cancer scare was nitrates used in bacon were not broken down fully like nitrates would, then high temperatures would create nitrosamine
> Mark


From what i know (little) nitrite is what leads to nitrosamines. Not nitrate. But nitrate is converted in nitrite long after the initial nitrite has been used up.


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## atomicsmoke

browneyesvictim said:


> Im missing something.... WHY is Nitrates not allowed by the FDA? Is it because of the nitrosamine issue?
> 
> If you dry cure/age belly with nitrates and call it pancetta that's ok.... and even eat it raw.


Depends who you listen too...some say nitrosamines form even at low temps.


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## browneyesvictim

Ok... so why single out just bacon? There are other products besides bacon, that are either cured with tenderquick or where Cure #2 is used, and many that are fried such as ham or Canadian bacon etc.

Then the quote from Morton infers they don't recommend curing bacon with tenderquick because it has to do with fat content... I'm reading between the lines here...


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## atomicsmoke

browneyesvictim said:


> Ok... so why single out just bacon? There are other products besides bacon, that are either cured with tenderquick or where Cure #2 is used, and many that are fried such as ham or Canadian bacon etc.
> 
> Then the quote from Morton infers they don't recommend curing bacon with tenderquick because it has to do with fat content... I'm reading between the lines here...


I think bacon is singled out as is cooked longer at higher temps and eaten more often.

Not sure what Morton's trying with the "fat content".


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## browneyesvictim

For what its worth and in line with the context of this post... there was a thread a while back that I bookmarked from Martin AKA diggingdogfarm.

Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm 

 Here's my recipe for a cure that's used at the same rate as Morton® Tender Quick® for recipes NOT requiring nitrate.

 17.5 oz salt (I use pickling salt)
 5.0 oz sugar
 2 oz cure #1

 It's super easy to use...…
 For dry curing....use one tablespoon (1/2 oz.) per pound of meat.
 For curing ground meats such as sausage....use 1/2 tablespoon (1/4 oz.) per pound of meat...it provides ALL the cure and the salt for the recipe.....no additional salt is needed.

 ~Dig"

There was also a posting of what is listed on the MSDS for Morton Tenderquick. As you can see there isn't that much sugar. I have made and used the above listed formula for making bacon with great success. But I do add additional brown sugar for every tablespoon needed for my tastes.


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## Bearcarver

mski2 said:


> https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...at-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index
> Read *Does bacon contain additives?*




If I ever start selling my Bacon commercially I'll stop using it, because I'll be using cure injection like the commercial oufits do. This is part of the problem. I had a few "discussions" about what you're worried about over the years.
A couple years ago I contacted USDA, and I told them I've been using TQ for years, and one guy keeps crying about it being unsafe. They said not to worry about it, and just keep making my Home Made Bacon the way I have been.

Also, If it was dangerous I believe the USDA would make Morton Salt either stop selling it, or at least put a warning on it "Not to be used for curing Bacon".

Bear


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## wade

Yes, the issue with Nitrate is that it has been shown to produce Nitrosamines when heated to high temperature (e.g. when fried). Nitrosamines have been indicated as a cause of cancer in rats - but I have not seen anything to extrapolate this to humans. The Nitrate restrictions are as a precaution and I can understand why this is the case.
There does not appear to be an issue with the use of Nitrates in meat that is not heated to high temperatures (e.g. pancetta) and this has been traditionally used for meat preservation many years


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## Bearcarver

wade said:


> "We cannot recommend Morton Tender Quick for use with pork belly or bacon. Due to the differing fat content of individual cuts, the curing time for these items may vary significantly. For this reason, we cannot recommend the appropriate amount of Tender Quick or curing time in this application."
> 
> I have never been a fan of TQ but this statement suggests that TQ should not be used with any meat that does not have known percentage of fat. Or are they suggesting that this is an issue with specifically pork fat?




Looks to me that they are only not recommending TQ for Bacon, because they can't tell you how much TQ to use because they don't know how much fat is in your "Belly". They aren't even talking about Nitrosamines.
They're only worried about the fact that Fatty Meat needs a different amount of cure than leaner meat.

I use it because my Dry cured TQ Bacon tastes better than anything else I have ever tried, as does my Dried Beef.

Bear


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## mski2

atomicsmoke said:


> From what i know (little) nitrite is what leads to nitrosamines. Not nitrate. But nitrate is converted in nitrite long after the initial nitrite has been used up.


True if you cure it long enough the Nitrates wil covert to Nitrites and then to  Nitric Oxide,just takes longer, bacon is cured quickly and Nirites convert to  Nitric Oxide. Reason it is recommended


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## daveomak

Nitrates need a bacteria, found in meats, to convert to nitrite...  That conversion does not happen at refrigerator temps due to the lack of necessary bacteria...  The bacteria necessary for conversion will grow and multiply above ~50ish deg. F...  For that reason, dry cured whole muscle meats and fermented meats are "cured" above ~53 F....  or something like that...


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## wade

Bearcarver said:


> Looks to me that they are only not recommending TQ for Bacon, because they can't tell you how much TQ to use because they don't know how much fat is in your "Belly". They aren't even talking about Nitrosamines.
> They're only worried about the fact that Fatty Meat needs a different amount of cure than leaner meat.
> 
> Bear



This makes their statement even more difficult to understand as this would put into question the use of any form of curing salt on meat that contains fat. Are they just protecting themselves from potential litigation (rhetorical question) as it does not appear to be in line with any official recommendations. Have the USDA published something recently that could have led them to make this disclaimer?


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## mski2

daveomak said:


> Nitrates need a bacteria, found in meats, to convert to nitrite...  That conversion does not happen at refrigerator temps due to the lack of necessary bacteria...  The bacteria necessary for conversion will grow and multiply above ~50ish deg. F...  For that reason, dry cured whole muscle meats and fermented meats are "cured" above ~53 F....  or something like that...[/QU
> Meat cures in refer temps just slower, I pre cure my sausage meat that way , also just cured a coppa 10 days for a UMAI bag.
> #4 below
> 
> https://www.mortonsalt.com/article/meat-curing-methods/


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## wade

mski2 said:


> Meat cures in refer temps just slower, I pre cure my sausage meat that way , also just cured a coppa 10 days for a UMAI bag.



The curing of the meat and the conversion of Nitrate to Nitrite are different things. The meat will cure happily with the Nitrite at fridge temperatures but 

 daveomak
 was referring to the conversion of Nitrate to Nitrite - which, as he says, is predominantly done though bacterial action. This would slow right down and almost stop at fridge temperatures.


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## daveomak

I'm not sure what your point is.... mski2

NITRATE USED IN CURED COMMINUTED, PICKLED, AND DRY PRODUCTS
Introduction
Nitrate is used as a source of nitrite. If nitrate is used as the curing agent, the conversion
(reduction) of nitrate to nitrite by bacteria in the meat or poultry is a necessary step in the
development of the cured color. The amount of nitrate that is reduced to nitrite is dependent
upon the numbers of nitrate-reducing bacteria and several environmental conditions such as
temperature, moisture content, salt content, and pH. Hence, the conversion rate and subsequent
amount of nitrite that is formed is difficult to control. Similarly, the further reduction of nitrite to
nitric oxide, which reacts with myoglobin (muscle pigment) to produce the cured color, is also
affected by the same environmental conditions. If nitrite is used as the curing agent, there is no
need for the nitrate reduction step, and the development of the cured color is much more rapid.
The poor control associated with the reduction of nitrate to nitrite, coupled with the fact that
most processors today demand faster curing methods, has lead to the diminished use of nitrate in
meat and poultry products.
http://food-safety.guru/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/USDA-edited-cure-calculations.pdf


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## mski2

Temperature was my point, just slower the lower the temp.
Now fermentation is a different story.


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## wade

Looks like this part of the thread conversation may be going a bit off track.
The TQ contains both Nitrite and Nitrate and so will work well as a cure for meats that are not going to be heat processed (e.g. frying). The Nitrite will cure the meat and provide the required colour and the Nitrate will be converted to Nitrite over time through bacterial action to top up the Nitrite as it is depleted. It is the presence of the Nitrate that I would have expected to be the reason that TQ cited as to why it should not be used in bacon - not that its rate of uptake into fat is unpredictable. This does not seem to make sense.


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## mski2

Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines , and   it takes 600 degrees to make that happen.
Bottom line Don't Burn your Bacon


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## atomicsmoke

mski2 said:


> Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines , and   it takes 600 degrees to make that happen.
> Bottom line Don't Burn your Bacon


Actually nitrosamines form when frying bacon at as low as 340F. 

For years i've been cooking bacon in the oven at under 300F. Learned that here.

It seems nitrosamines can also form in our stomach from cured  (uncooked) meat. But then they can also form when you eat uncured meat...since bacteria in our mouth converts nitrate to nitrite all the time. And you get plenty of nitrate from vegetables and water.


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## daveomak

Please cite the article where you found the "600 degrees" to form nitrosamines..





mski2 said:


> Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines , and   it takes 600 degrees to make that happen.
> Bottom line Don't Burn your Bacon


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## wade

mski2 said:


> Fat has nothing to do with it it's Nitrosamines


Yes, I am agreeing with you that FAT is a strange thing for Morton to use as a reason for not recommending its use for making bacon. I cannot see where they have got this from. I can understand them using the Nitrate content... but not the fat content...


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## wade

According to the NCBI, Nitrosamines are formed at the temperature of 340 F (171 C). However it is not clear as to whether they are also formed at temperatures below this.
It can be found in this NCBI article on page 362
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1424609/pdf/pubhealthrep00104-0034.pdf

"The heat normally used to fry bacon to its desired crispness-approximately 340 F-resulted in the formation of nitrosamines in the fried bacon (7)."

7. Nitrates, nitrites, and salt. Notice of proposed rulemaking.
Federal Register 40: 52614-52616, No. 218, Nov. 11,
1975.


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## daveomak

The fat content is a ruse, to divert attention from the possibility of users getting cancer, from using their product for bacon, when the USDA states "Nitrate is not allowed" when making bacon....  A slight-of-hand deal....  IMO....


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## atomicsmoke

daveomak said:


> The fat content is a ruse, to divert attention from the possibility of users getting cancer, from using their product for bacon, when the USDA states "Nitrate is not allowed" when making bacon....  A slight-of-hand deal....  IMO....


Lol...imagine morton mentioning the C word in their warnings....it would be like a meat packer putting cholesterol warning on their pork butts.


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## daveomak




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## mski2

daveomak said:


> Please cite the article where you found the "600 degrees" to form nitrosamines..



pg 236 Marianski's book 600 deg., but Wade got the gov article from I'd go by that.
This is wearing me out, think Ill go cook some Bacon.
BTW does anyone have a dry cure for bacon without sugar just dextrose ?


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## browneyesvictim

That was an outstanding read Wade! Thank you for posting that. I feel a lot smarter now knowing the back story.

I am going to draw a couple of conclusions or take-aways from what I now know.

- I wont be using Tenderquick any longer for curing bacon because it has some cure #2 (Nitrate) in it. Don't need it anyway.
- I will continue to use Martins Nitrate-less tenderquick substitute I posted (post #44)
- I am likely going to start adding a nitrosamine inhibitor to this dry cure such as Sodium Erythorbate or Ascorbate as suggested by the USDA.
- Use of a nitrosamine inhibitor in a WET brine could be prohibitive.. however injection "Pumping" is looking more viable for me now.


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## atomicsmoke

browneyesvictim said:


> That was an outstanding read Wade! Thank you for posting that. I feel a lot smarter now knowing the back story.
> 
> I am going to draw a couple of conclusions or take-aways from what I now know.
> 
> - I wont be using Tenderquick any longer for curing bacon because it has some cure #2 (Nitrate) in it. Don't need it anyway.
> - I will continue to use Martins Nitrate-less tenderquick substitute I posted (post #44)
> - I am likely going to start adding a nitrosamine inhibitor to this dry cure such as Sodium Erythorbate or Ascorbate as suggested by the USDA.
> - Use of a nitrosamine inhibitor in a WET brine could be prohibitive.. however injection "Pumping" is looking more viable for me now.


I understand the inhibitors work by reducing the nitrite level. If you add the inhibitor when you start curing how do you know you will have enoug nitrite? Or is the inhibitor added when the meat is cured?


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## browneyesvictim

As I understand it, It doesn't reduce the nitrite level per-se. It inhibits the formation of Amines, or something like that.

_"In May 1978, on the basis of USDA and industry data, USDA issued a final regulation, reducing the level of nitrite that could be used in curing bacon from 200 ppm to 120 ppm and requiring that the nitrite be used in combination with 550 ppm of sodium ascorbate or erythorbate."_

_"Today, USDA still enforces the levels required by the May 1978 regulation- 120 ppm of nitrite used with 550 ppm of sodium ascorbate or erythorbate._


*EDIT: Just looked it up. (Sodium Erythorbate): "it increases the rate at which nitrite reduces to nitric oxide, thus facilitating a faster cure and retaining the pink coloring. As an antioxidant structurally related to vitamin C, it helps improve flavor stability and prevents the formation of carcinogenic nitrosamines"
*​


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## Bearcarver

mski2 said:


> pg 236 Marianski's book 600 deg., but Wade got the gov article from I'd go by that.
> This is wearing me out, think Ill go cook some Bacon.
> BTW does anyone have a dry cure for bacon without sugar just dextrose ?




You had the right idea, but the wrong Temp.
The main thing is "Don't Burn your Bacon".
It really isn't hard to Not burn your Bacon.

Bear


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## David Leopold

I’m going to bring this thread back around to the original topic  because i was just looking for this info. 

Curing without sugar? My wife wants to cut sugar, like ALL sugar, and would love my bacon to be sugar free. So it’s not an issue to use a typical dry cure like Discos and just omit the brown sugar? Or add some sugar substitute if she wished?

On the topic of WHY it is added, I think it would also partly help the actual curing process. Maybe not so much in a small amount dry rub which is also using curing salt. But consider the non curing salt method, where you pack the belly in LOTS of salt and sugar. Like buried. Yes bacteria and bugs like sugar, but in high concentrations it actually kills germs. Honey for example is anti-bacterial. But I think in a dry rub it must just be for flavour.


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## daveomak

Sugars are used to cut the bitterness of the salt..  I add 1% sugar to my bacon...  So, if you eat 100 grams of bacon for breakfast, (~1/5 #), you are getting ~1 grams of sugar...   Plus what's in the meat naturally...


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## David Leopold

Probably not even 1g really. When you consider that you add that 1% sugar, but then some of it dissolves out into the liquids that get discarded when you pull the meat out of the curing bag or bucket. And then usually most people rinse and often soak in clean water for a bit. So a bit of that 1% is drawn back out. I just explained that to her and she seems not too worried about eating the bacon now:) especially when I showed her that one little pack of her sweetener has 3g of carbs itself anyway. Lol. We agreed that I will use the same recipe as before but I will just cut the sugar down a bit for her. Should turn out just fine.


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## daveomak

Holey Kow !!!!  you have a wife that succumbs to reason...   Very fortunate my NEW friend...   You are #1 lucky dude !!!


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## David Leopold

Well, only because my homemade belly bacon won her over. Hahaha


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## daveomak




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## jbchurchill

daveomak said:


> Sugars are used to cut the bitterness of the salt..  I add 1% sugar to my bacon...  So, if you eat 100 grams of bacon for breakfast, (~1/5 #), you are getting ~1 grams of sugar...   Plus what's in the meat naturally...


i don't see bacon on the list...


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## daveomak

jbchurchill said:


> i don't see bacon on the list...



Bacon is not listed as a fruit....

....


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