# Pls help = Verification of my troubleshooting plan



## jboc2020 (Dec 21, 2020)

Hey All, 
Had a mishap when we were preparing to make our first batch of elk/pork summer sausage.  I mixed up morton tender quick with prague powder - like a newb.  So, I will briefly tell you what I did, and what my troubleshooting plan is, and I am just looking for some confirmation that the plan should work.  I loitered around your forums, so I think it will, but I have been sick to my stomach and just need a little reassurance!
What I did:
7# ground elk
3# pork backfat
.5 cup course sea salt
seasoning (mustard, pepper, majoram, etc)
2 TBSP PRAGUE SALT #1 (murder salt)
1 cup buttermilk.

It went in the big pot together, sat overnight in the fridge, we got it out, tested a patty, it was too salty, I panicked, checked my ingredients, and realized the murder salt error.  I cried, freaked out, and then did some research.

What I plan to do:  Second batch - 
10# elk ground
3# pork backfat ground
2# grassfed beef ground
seasoning - 
NO F-ing PRAGUE POWDER murder salt
regular non-murder Salt...* Question: I am not sure what to do here - any suggestions? I am thinking the 3/4 cups salt might be too much? Was the prague powder what made it taste too salty, or the 1/2 cup of salt?*

Then, add 1/2 # of the first batch per 1# new batch together in kitchen aid until everything is mixed, add buttermilk and water, back in the pot, overnight sit.  
Stuff and smoke to 160 degree internal temp.  This will be for a total first and second batch of 25#.  
*Question: Will the murder salt use osmosis and get into the new batch - equal out, not grow murder bacteria, and be fine, or do I need to toss the original batch and deal with the loss?*
Thank you thank you thank you for any help you can provide. Happy holidays!!


----------



## chef jimmyj (Dec 21, 2020)

So you mixed Tender Quick and Cure #1, together....THROW THAT OUT!!!

Your first batch is at 3.6% Salt! WAY HIGH!

Turning what you have into 25 pounds, I suggest just Mix it all together, in one big batch, will make the Nitrite Level SAFE to eat, albeit still  higher than recommended. Cooking will fix that...
25lbs will get the Salt level to just over1%, which may be light for some but still good. You could fry a test patty and adjust all the seasoning.
Remember...1 teaspoon Cure #1, Only, per 5 Pound of Meat...JJ


----------



## zwiller (Dec 21, 2020)

"murder salt" LOL   I think he meant mixed up in the sense of dosing rate not mixed together but not 100% sure.  I think there is still too mich cure with both batches combined and think he needs 30lbs.  2TBSP = 6tsp * 5 = 30.   Then salt will need to be adjusted...


----------



## jboc2020 (Dec 21, 2020)

zwiller said:


> "murder salt" LOL   I think he meant mixed up in the sense of dosing rate not mixed together but not 100% sure.  I think there is still too mich cure with both batches combined and think he needs 30lbs.  2TBSP = 6tsp * 5 = 30.   Then salt will need to be adjusted...


Sorry, I mixed it up in my head when I was researching recipes.  I ONLY used the prague powder, but the amount off recipes that called for Tender Quick.  To repeat, I used 2 tbsp of prague powder only.  NO tender quick.
Thanks:)


----------



## jboc2020 (Dec 21, 2020)

jboc2020 said:


> Sorry, I mixed it up in my head when I was researching recipes.  I ONLY used the prague powder, but the amount off recipes that called for Tender Quick.  To repeat, I used 2 tbsp of prague powder only.  NO tender quick.
> Thanks:)



I see what you are saying... I am not sure we want 30 # of summer sausage right this minute and I only have 25 casings (live rurally, no way to get more until next year shipping) ... what if I saved 5# of the original batch in the freezer,  used 5# original and 10 # new now...  and in a month or two thawed the batch in the freezer, added 10# and did some more?


----------



## chef jimmyj (Dec 21, 2020)

jboc2020 said:


> I see what you are saying... I am not sure we want 30 # of summer sausage right this minute and I only have 25 casings (live rurally, no way to get more until next year shipping) ... what if I saved 5# of the original batch in the freezer,  used 5# original and 10 # new now...  and in a month or two thawed the batch in the freezer, added 10# and did some more?



That will work but you will need to add Salt, Spice and Buttermilk, to taste...JJ


----------



## jboc2020 (Dec 21, 2020)

Thanks, JJ, if I could bend your ear a bit more, how much regular salt per pound should I be aiming for with the new batch, considering what you now know of my original batch?
Also, are you saying that if I did the 25#, the nitrate would still be slightly high, but as soon as it is smoked, it isn't an issue, and I am not harming anyone? 
Or are you saying, go with the 30# route for maximum flavor and safety?

Thanks -


----------



## zwiller (Dec 21, 2020)

I started typing before 

 chef jimmyj
 posted and read too quick.   He ran the numbers and you're good on the 25lbs but a little high.   You are cleared to proceed.  Follow his last post and adjust for taste.  

When I first started looking into curing and sausage making I got lost and confused by all the "rules" IE 1tsp per 5lbs for cure #1.  Once I embraced weight based measurements(and metric) I never looked back.  Lots of guys use this:  http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html


----------



## chef jimmyj (Dec 21, 2020)

zwiller said:


> I think there is still too mich cure with both batches combined and think he needs 30lbs. 2TBSP = 6tsp * 5 = 30. Then salt will need to be adjusted...



TECHNICALLY? You are Correct. But in actuality, Cure #1 is effective over a Range of concentration. A teaspoon more or a teaspoon less, will have no impact on the taste or Safety of the sausage.
Good catch and thought process!...JJ


----------



## chef jimmyj (Dec 21, 2020)

We are all typing at the same time!...JJ


----------



## jboc2020 (Dec 21, 2020)

Ha! Thanks, yes, I am a baker so doing things by weight makes sense to me.  Thank you for that link, it is worth its weight in... murder salt... .  So... whats with the sugar?  I didn't add any - the link demands sugar though, for the cure. Do you guys always use sugar?  This is a must?


----------



## chef jimmyj (Dec 21, 2020)

jboc2020 said:


> Thanks, JJ, if I could bend your ear a bit more, how much regular salt per pound should I be aiming for with the new batch, considering what you now know of my original batch?
> Also, are you saying that if I did the 25#, the nitrate would still be slightly high, but as soon as it is smoked, it isn't an issue, and I am not harming anyone?
> Or are you saying, go with the 30# route for maximum flavor and safety?
> 
> Thanks -



Salt...1 to 2% Salt is most common. Once you mix 5 lbs Original with 10lbs Additional meat, you will be at approx, 1.1%. Rather than doing a bunch of conversions and math to adjust a couple 10 ths of a Percent, just add to taste using a Test Patty.

At 25 pounds, your Cure #1 is a bit high, but as I posted above to my friend and the  most respected  Sir Zwiller...There is a SAFE Range of Cure #1 amounts that are effective and You are within that range.
Additionally, the Heating/Cooking will dissipate quite a bit of the Cure #1 reducing the level further.

I would Highly Encourage you getting a $15 Gram Scale, .01 resolution, and start Weighing Ingredients rather than following VOLUME Measurement. It makes life easier, once you wrap your head around Grams and Percentages. Its easier to adjust to odd weights of Meat, you are not restricted to multiples of 5 pounds! You can use one or more of the CURE, SALT, SUGAR CALCULATORS like the one Sir Zwiller posted (Thanks).
And Weight Based Recipes are much more common, here and from any of the major Sausage Sites...JJ

A BAKER!!! We could use your knowledge around here! NO, you don't Need to add sugar, unless the recipe calls for it. Sugar may be for Sweetness, to Balance Salt or to feed some Fermentation Bacteria. Sugar is in the Calculator for the guys that use it to make Ham and Assorted Bacon...Aka, a Universal Calculator for Curing meat and sausage...


----------



## BGKYSmoker (Dec 21, 2020)

No dont mix cures together.

Stay clean and neat. Add the right amount of cure.

Making sausage.


----------



## tallbm (Dec 21, 2020)

jboc2020 said:


> I see what you are saying... I am not sure we want 30 # of summer sausage right this minute and I only have 25 casings (live rurally, no way to get more until next year shipping) ... what if I saved 5# of the original batch in the freezer,  used 5# original and 10 # new now...  and in a month or two thawed the batch in the freezer, added 10# and did some more?


Hi there and welcome!

The guys are getting you on the right track.

Your situation is already complicated so I have a suggestion to get back to simplifying things.

I would suggest you simply mix up the correct amount of meat + fat with what you already have to make your 25-30lbs of meat so that you are at a safe and salvageable point.

THEN separate what you plan to turn into summer sausage and adjust the seasoning of just that batch of meat to make into summer sausage.

The left over batch of meat will still have some summer sausage seasoning to it but should be quite diluted and be more of like a light "base" seasoning.  Think of this batch of meat as being FULLY cured but blandly seasoned.  Blandly seasoned to the point to where you can still take it any number of directions and it not come out tasting great and NOT like summer sausage if you want to change the flavor. 
Later you can take this batch and add other seasoning to take it a SIMILAR but different direction than summer sausage if you want.

This #1 takes care of  your unsafe situation with absolute certainty.  #2 allows you separate the meat so not everything becomes summer sausage.  #3 allows you maximum flexibility with the left over batch and saves your current batch of summer sausage.

Finally, I'm a fan of 2% salt before cure is added.  I do 1% sugar if adding sugar.  
I hope this helps and takes your complicated situation and breaks it down into much simpler options that have a greater chance of being wildly successful :)


----------



## jboc2020 (Dec 21, 2020)

Thank you, TallBM, this is a great post and suggested course, I am a little overwhelmed by the processing of 25-30# of meat before Xmas what with cookie baking and all the other holiday eating :)  Sooo... you've piqued my interest, what else would you do with the mix if not summer sausage seasoning, any suggestions?   Thanks in advance if you have some.  

To all of you, thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to answer, I didn't sleep a wink last night weighing the prospect of killing people or tossing good meat! 

The google is full of recipes and information, and I was doing my best to turn my husband's hard work with his elk this year into something special now that we have a smoker.  We were both heartbroken when I discovered my error, but so glad we caught it in time, and as a bonus, it allows me to dilute the normal salt content, which was clearly too high, and add sugar, and obviously have a hell of a lot of sausage to share this coming year.   It reminds me of the time I didn't know about high altitude canning and had to re-process 30 quarts of tomato sauce - learning the hard way (but not the dead way) is always a treat!
Cheers - Jackie


----------



## tallbm (Dec 21, 2020)

jboc2020 said:


> Thank you, TallBM, this is a great post and suggested course, I am a little overwhelmed by the processing of 25-30# of meat before Xmas what with cookie baking and all the other holiday eating :)  Sooo... you've piqued my interest, what else would you do with the mix if not summer sausage seasoning, any suggestions?   Thanks in advance if you have some.
> 
> To all of you, thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to answer, I didn't sleep a wink last night weighing the prospect of killing people or tossing good meat!
> 
> ...



No problem, it's good to help ease your mind and help you out!  We have a good community here so ask anytime you have questions :)

I would take that other sauce in the direction of Brats, Polish sausage (Kielbasa), or a Hot Link style of sausage.  You could also do some loose cured breakfast sausage.  Something simple like that.  I just did a Texas Hot Gut/Link sausage for the first time this past weekend and I LOVED the flavor and only have minor tweaks but could make it this way al the time.
I wouldn't use a store bought seasoning mix because you can't accurately guess how much to add along with your current amount of salt in that meat.

FYI, if you add meat and fat to go up to 25 pounds of sausage your salt content will be a right at 1% total for 25 pounds of sausage.  BUT I have no idea about how much you diluted the other seasonings.  I like my sausage at 2% salt by weight.
The good news is that you can add more of each other seasoning separately and do fry test until you get the flavor you want :)

I think a good plan would be to continue making your 10 pounds of summer sausage and then break up the rest into small batches.
If you like breakfast sausage or loose sausage you can experiment with the 1 pound batches of following and never have to stuff it.  I would do at least 5 pounds total but in a 1 pound variety of these options.

1 lb Regular Breakfast Sausage
1 lb Maple Breakfast Sausage
1 lb Hot Breakfast Sausage
1 lb Italian Sausage (Regular, sweet, or hot)
1 lb Chorizo (If you like that sausage  Being loose I would suggest Mexican style as Spanish style is better stuffed)
Then you can do 5 pound batches of stuffed sausage of some other kind (Brat, Polish, Hot Link, etc.) 

Now those are your flavor options but honestly I'd spend most of your energy ENSURING your sausage smoking process is correct and more IMPORTANTLY your setup can actually do sausage.

Your smoker must be able to start low enough and must not SWING too high in temp or else you risk shocking the sausage fat with to much heat increase too fast and the fat turns to liquid and drains out of the meat mixture leaving behind grainy gritty meat.  This is known as Fat-Out.

The proper sausage smoking process is to walk the temp up slowly like the following:

put sausage in smoker 
start at smoker temp 100F degrees with no smoke for 1hr
up temp to 120F for 1 hour and start applying smoke
up to 140 for 1 hour 
up to 160 for 1 hour
up to 165F for the rest of the smoke until Internal Temp (IT) of sausage is like 152-154F temp.  Don't fear if it goes up higher, I take wild pork sausage up to 165F to ensure any micro parasites would be killed so its ok if the bottom of a hanging sausage is like 158 and top is 150 and u need the top to go up higher lol.
When you hit your IT you pull the sausage and u MUST throw into an ice bath to quickly cook them which stops them from cooking further AND ensures the castings and the meat shrink up so that you don't get this crinkly wrinkly sausage casing situation.  Some folks in snow country throw them into a fresh clean snow bank rather than an ice bath haha, nice and convenient.
Once cooled you dry them off and let them set out at room temp for a couple of hours or more and allow them to "bloom" they will change color and look awesome but I'm not sure it matters much with summer sausage
Next vacuum seal or cut and vacuum seal AND eat what you want :)
Make sure your smoker can do those low temps.  Make sure when your smoker is set to 160-165F temp it doesn't do crazy swings up to 180F.  Swings from 145/150F to 180F and up are bad for shocking and melting the fat so understand how your smoker behaves.
Also understand that it may take 8-12 hours for you to complete this sausage smoke/cook so plan accordingly :)

You can always freeze your left over sausage mix to later season and play around with different kinds of sausage options, but don't neglect the job you have in front of you now with the summer sausage smoke.  

Ask any questions you have and again this community is awesome and will help you gather as much knowledge as you can to execute properly :)


----------

