# Fire Management - Version Umpteen



## dave schiller (Jun 29, 2017)

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There are lots of threads on this site about fire management in an offset smoker.  Most are several years old and probably buried and forgotten in the ashes from years of smoking.  I thought I'd add my recent thoughts and experience with my offset.  I'm getting ready to cook my first brisket on July 4 and have been practicing fire management in preparation for that.  I'm using a New Braunfels Black Diamond, but I think my observations apply to any of the similar offsets.  I made the recommended mods to the smoker and after numerous trial runs (no meat) I've come to the following conclusions.

Sealing up the smoker

Do it.  Do some test burns and observe where any smoke leaks are.  I used a fair amount of fiberglass tape and high temp silicone to seal both the doors.  My smoker won't float, but it's pretty tight.  Many offsets can leak a lot and that means heat loss and lack of air control.

Getting it up to temperature

At first, I was having a difficult time getting mine up to 275*, my target temp, using a chimney of lit charcoal.  It took about two hours.  Turns out, I wasn’t giving it nearly enough fuel.  Today, I dumped a chimney of lit coals into the firebox and then added two more (unlit) and in about 20-25 minutes it was up to 300*.  Solution: Give it plenty of fuel.

Temperature control

I admit to using a BBQGuru to control the fire.  There are other systems that do the same thing.  I know it's frowned on by the purists, but I drive a car with an automatic transmission too.  During a cook with guests coming over and sides to prepare, I don’t want to have to tweak the fire every 15-30 minutes during a 10-12 hour cook.  So I bought and use the Guru and it works as advertised, maintaining the temp that I set it for.  As long as there is enough fuel in the firebox, it controls the temp to within a degree of the setting.

Heat and smoke

My theory is that heat comes from charcoal and smoke/flavor from wood.  I found that trying to maintain the desired temp with wood and at the same time produce thin blue smoke was next to impossible.  The wood produced billowing clouds of thick smoke while maintaining the temp.  Overpowering smoke is not good for flavor.  Now I use a full box of charcoal for heat and throw in a piece of wood for smoke, like maybe 2"x3"x8".  Nice thin smoke from this and after an hour or so (if needed), I throw in another chunk of wood.

So those are my comments.  In summary:

Seal the smoker well

Give it adequate fuel

Use a temperature control system

Get your heat from charcoal and smoke/flavor from wood chunks

Hope this helps.


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## h2so4ca (Jun 30, 2017)

Hi Dave

I have to disagree with you on a few points. 

On an offset ( I own two Lang's ) I start and run all wood. I build an all wood fire in my firebox and ignite it with a weed burner. So all of my smoke and heat come from wood. And I have no problem getting thin blue smoke. I think the reason is that wood burns hotter then charcoal. 

If you are using a charcoal basket or a large amount of charcoal with some lit and some not your fire will never be hot enough to completely combust all of the out gasses from the wood and charcoal. 

In a typical start up I will build a larger fire then I will cook with and bring the smoker up to a temp higher then I will be cooking at. When I hit say 300 degrees I will add the meat and bring the smoker temp down by slowly reducing air flow to the fire. From that point on I'm only adding one or two splits of wood every 45 to 60 min. ( My Lang's are pretty fuel efficient and hold temp very well. I'm sure the mass of these things help with that tremendously) So I would say give it a try running all wood and you may find it easier to get the thin blue smoke we are all looking for. 

As a side note on occasion I will start a fire in my fire pit that sits on the patio and burn a bunch of wood down to embers and then take a few shovel's full and make a bed of coals in one of my smokers and then just lay 3 or 4 full quarter splits on that to start out. Both ways work very well.


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## smokeymose (Jun 30, 2017)

I'm afraid I have to disagree a bit also. I'm running a little ole $300 CharGriller with no "mods" other than a baffle at the hot end. No door seals or anything. I start the fire with a chimney of charcoal to get the woodfire going. It's never taken longer than a half hour (if it's cold outside) to get to temp. I do the whole cook from there on with wood only. I only get a minute or two of white smoke sometimes after adding a new split. I have noticed that if you try to keep too low a temp you get too much smoke. That's why offsets like to run at higher temps. Mine is usually happy at 260 to 280, depending on the outside temps. I usually need to add wood every 1/2 hour to 3/4 hour, depending on what sort of wood is burning.

A temp control system would be nice, but hardly necessary.

That being said, I really don't know anything about New Braunfels smokers.


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## joe black (Jun 30, 2017)

These guys have you started in the right direction.  I start with about 2/3 basket of lump and fire it up with a chimney of briqs.  This will establish a really good bed of coals, which I feel is most necessary.  When the CC is up to a little above my cooking temp, I will add a couple of pre-heated splits and the meat.  The meat will reduce your CC temp to your cook range.  When you get close to the bottom of your cook range, add another couple of pre-heated splits.  The trick to the pre-heated splits is the ignition lag.  The pre-heated splits will ignite much quicker and this reduces the temp drop on the low end and also keep a much cleaner smoke.  If I have any white smoke, it is very little and is gone quite quickly.

Also have good quality and well checked gauges for your CC.  This will give you a much better idea of the CC temp.  A good quality digital gauge set at the grate and in the meat is a must.  I would suggest River Country for the mounted gauges and Maverick et732 for the digital grate and meat set.

Good luck and good smoking.  Let us know how you come out,   Joe.    :grilling_smilie:


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## dave schiller (Jul 1, 2017)

Guys, I'm hearing you and digesting your comments.  I'll compose my response and post it after ruminating a bit.


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## dave schiller (Jul 7, 2017)

Guys, I cooked my first brisket on July 4.  Based on the results of that cook, I stand by my earlier post about using charcoal for heat and wood for smoke/flavor.  I used Royal Oak lump for the burn and periodically added a piece of oak for smoke, probably every hour until I wrapped it about six hours after starting.  We had several guest over for dinner, which is dangerous to do on the first cooking try.  Luckily, the brisket came out perfectly; nice bark and smoke ring, tender, juicy, smoky, everything you'd hope for.  Everyone knew this was my first attempt and said it was great.  I asked everyone to rate it on a 1-10 scale and they all gave it a 9.  One guy's comment was that it might have been a bit heavy on the smoke flavor.  I think if I had used wood exclusively, it would have resulted to too much smoke flavor.

I used a full bag of charcoal (15.5 lbs) during the cook and a BBQGuru to control the temp.  It made things simple and easy.  I admit it's not the traditional technique, but it worked.   I'm really more interested in the final product than the process to make it.  So as long as I can get the same results using my method, I'll stick with it.  Kudos to those that use wood exclusively, but not for me.


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 7, 2017)

I'm not used to eating smoked meat. I would probably be one to think using more than 3 or 4 wood chunks for a brisket it too much. This is half of my smoke  hickory chunks for 14 hours. Was great taste. Just saying.. be safe!













IMG_20170705_193206.jpg



__ Rings Я Us
__ Jul 7, 2017


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## h2so4ca (Jul 7, 2017)

As long as you are happy with the product you are producing then more power to you. 

For me I will stick with an all wood fire in my offsets.

I have 3 charcoal smokers and an electric along with my stick burners but the taste is very different.

On my charcoal smokers the smoke is always stronger then on my stick burners and I think it has to 

do with the way it tends to smolder on the charcoal vs how it burns on the offset's. 

But as I said as long as you are happy with it then really thats all that should matter.


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 7, 2017)

No room for stick burners or wood piles in my apartment. I would love one.


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## lancep (Jul 7, 2017)

If you're happy with the results you're getting, more power to you. If it ain't broke don't fix it right? That said, there is a big difference between stick burning and adding wood to charcoal or any other heat source for flavor. When cooking with wood, smoke is a side effect. No matter how hot and clean your fire is burning, your meat is going to get smoked. But it's cleaner smoke so you don't get "too smokey" you get "just right." The trick is to run a clean, hot fire just big enough to keep your smoker in range. You might give it a try sometime with a spatched chicken. That way it's a quick smoke and you can get a feel for it without investing a ton of time. 

Lance


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## hardcookin (Jul 7, 2017)

I agree with what Lance and h2so4ca is saying.
 Myself I burn wood from start to finish. I think an offset smoker burning wood gives the best flavor. 
Everybody has their preferences, based on their experiences and that's good.


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 7, 2017)

A proper heavy duty sealed up ready to go stick burner in my price range? No such thing. A stick burner for any price, that I don't have to keep an eye on all day? Don't exist.  A place to keep said stick burner? Not here. Place to store a couple months worth of wood? Nope.. not this apartment complex.. use stick burner to cook for me,myself and I? Not practical.. am single and work.. I have about 12 weekends a year that weather is pleasant and would use a $1,000.00 plus smoker.  Would be nice to live out in the sticks and be set for cash and time.. retired and have a big group to cook for..


  I will have to stick with the ECB for now.. my pathetic modified clunker. [emoji]129301[/emoji] lol good times.. 

Oh, was gonna say I lived in the real Braunfels in Germany. Where a bunch of the Germans left to settle in Texas.  Cool..


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 7, 2017)

They never grilled or smoked much for leisure.. Lol I guess once in Texas in New Braunfels , they took up the grilling and smoking meats.


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## phatbac (Jul 8, 2017)

Rings R Us said:


> A proper heavy duty sealed up ready to go stick burner in my price range? No such thing. A stick burner for any price, that I don't have to keep an eye on all day? Don't exist. A place to keep said stick burner? Not here. Place to store a couple months worth of wood? Nope.. not this apartment complex.. use stick burner to cook for me,myself and I? Not practical.. am single and work.. I have about 12 weekends a year that weather is pleasant and would use a $1,000.00 plus smoker. Would be nice to live out in the sticks and be set for cash and time.. retired and have a big group to cook for..
> 
> 
> I will have to stick with the ECB for now.. my pathetic modified clunker. [emoji]129301[/emoji] lol good times..
> ...


If you ever decide to upgrade on the ECB maybe you should try a WSM mini (14.5") I have seen them as a low as $99 at Walmart in the winter (clearance i think) and it would be a good smoker for the apartment situation and hold good heat/air flow etc. they are perfect for the charcoal/wood chunk smokes.  

Happy Smoking,

phatbac (Aaron)


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## smokeymose (Jul 8, 2017)

[/RIGHT]





Rings R Us said:


> A proper heavy duty sealed up ready to go stick burner in my price range? No such thing. A stick burner for any price, that I don't have to keep an eye on all day? Don't exist.  A place to keep said stick burner? Not here. Place to store a couple months worth of wood? Nope.. not this apartment complex.. use stick burner to cook for me,myself and I? Not practical.. am single and work.. I have about 12 weekends a year that weather is pleasant and would use a $1,000.00 plus smoker.  Would be nice to live out in the sticks and be set for cash and time.. retired and have a big group to cook for..
> 
> 
> I will have to stick with the ECB for now.. my pathetic modified clunker. [emoji]129301[/emoji] lol good times..
> ...



Totally understand, Rings. Been there, and I can't afford a $1000 smoker either. You really don't have to spend that much, but there is the "babysitting" part.....
Use whatcha got and have fun!

I think phatbac is onto something with that WSM mini.


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## bluewhisper (Jul 8, 2017)

I'm lucky to have a place for an offset and a stash of wood. I'm usually cooking for 2.

I use a few of the techniques you guys are describing. I burn a mix of lump and wood,  sometimes all wood.


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## joe black (Jul 8, 2017)

This is a great exchange of thought and personal needs.  This is the way a forum is supposed to operate.  Everyone has their own preferences and nobody is trying to lead the pack.  It's really refreshing when everyone can have their own opinions and can feel comfortable expressing them.

Dave, be careful with that ruminating.  I've heard you can go blind from that.


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## dave schiller (Jul 9, 2017)

Going blind from ruminating?  That's a good one, Joe.  Never heard that before.


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## smokeymose (Jul 9, 2017)

Dave Schiller said:


> Going blind from ruminating?  That's a good one, Joe.  Never heard that before.  :biggrin:


I think my mother told me that once when I was a teenager...


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## lancep (Jul 9, 2017)

Soo... can I ruminate just till I need glasses???


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## dave schiller (Jul 9, 2017)

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Well, back to the topic after the humorous interlude.

Obviously, lots of folks burn pure wood for heat AND smoke with great success.  And based on the large number of posters looking for sources of bagged wood chips, I doubt they are using wood totally.  So probably there are a lot of electric and gas smokers out there.  I guess they get good results or they would all be switching to stick burners.

This leads to the fundamental question; does smoking meat REQUIRE burning wood exclusively?  Perhaps for the best results, it does.  But the fact that the stick burners are probably outnumbered by the total of electric, gas, and other types of smokers (like the WSM) tells me that there is more than one way to smoke meat with good results.

It would be interesting to make a valid side by side comparison of the different methods using identical cuts of meat.  Probably not practical, but interesting.


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## cksteele (Jul 9, 2017)

hmm i run a small offset a oak joe  sealed it up added baffle plate  extended the smoke stack inside semi insulated the  firebox w fire bricks.  i run  100% wood splits, usually run 275-285  temp range   id agree with you on your first point.

i usually start out with a dozen charcoal  lumps to get the  splits lit on but then its  100%wood 

but once you Learn how to cook with wood splits  you can burn a clean fire  a majority of the cook and keep it in a real tight temp zone.  when i get into a rhythm   on the smoker most of the time you cant even see  smoke coming outta the stack and thats with burning  wood exclusively.

i mean if you dont have the time to spend doing it your way is perfectly fine. i used to do it that way too on my WSM  but i can def taste  a difference  burning 100% wood for heat and good smoke.i smell the smoke coming out of the stack and its sweet  almost with a nutty buttery scent to it.

but to each his own there are the whole rainbow of smokers on here from stick burners to electric smokers to kettle cookers and everything in between if you enjoy what  you do  thats the main thing


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## lancep (Jul 9, 2017)

First, you're absolutely right. I actually use both methods. It's the reason I got the pit that I did. I wanted a stick burner but couldn't give up the overnight convenience of my WSM. If I have the time, I burn wood. If I don't, I burn charcoal with a split on top for smoke. For long smokes, where I wrap, I'll burn wood until it's time to wrap them scrape my coals to the center, fill each side with unlit briquettes and a " bridge" over top to make sure they light. Then I set the vents for charcoal and walk away. 

Second, it was certainly not my intent to diminish other heat sources or techniques. My post was in response to your summation that had you burned an all wood fire your brisket would have been even smokier. As I tried to say, burning a wood fire and using wood for flavor are to very different animals and require a different approach. Adding smoke for flavor is just like any other ingredient. The trick is to add enough without adding too much. Stick burning is more about managing the cleanest fire you can while keeping your smoker in your temp range. I sincerely apologize if my post caused any offense or came of condescending or dismissive in any way. 

Lance


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## bluewhisper (Jul 9, 2017)

One factor I'm dealing with for now is, my main stash of maple isn't yet a full year cured. It looks and handles like it's cured, but there's still a little bit of harshness compared to commercial chunks. Close, though. It does burn reliably and almost all of it is straight and easy to split. Most pieces are about 3 inches diameter and 8 inches long. I have a lot of it.


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## dave schiller (Jul 9, 2017)

Lance. absolutely no offense taken.  In fact, I'm not sure what you think you said that would offend me.  As Joe Black said, "This is a great exchange of thought and personal needs."  That's what it's supposed to about.  I have seen other forums on other subjects that sometimes get testy, but not here.  Besides, I'm too old and thick skinned to be offended.


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## lancep (Jul 10, 2017)

That's the way I am Dave but after years of my wife sayin "tone it down, you're not talking to Marines anymore " I've learned to check myself. It just seemed like the thread was taking a turn towards stick burners vs everything else and I wanted to make sure that wasn't how I was coming across. And Joe is right and that's what I love about this forum. The fact that differing opinions and preferences can be discussed with decency and civility. Not something easily found on the interwebs.


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## Rings Я Us (Jul 10, 2017)

Don't nobody be bad mouthing  my precious. Lol 













IMG_20170704_121812.jpg



__ Rings Я Us
__ Jul 10, 2017







[emoji]129301[/emoji]


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## uzikaduzi (Jul 10, 2017)

In my stick burner I don't worry about it being sealed up... infact I run door with the exhaust in it completely open. If I'm running a little hotter then I like, i have a crushed beer can I wedge in the upper door on the fire box at various places which hold It cracked open to various degrees. I'm adding 1-2 splits every 45minutes-1hour.

Certainly I don't have as tight of control as running charcoal in some form of the minion method, but I have ranges I can hit and stay in pretty consistently mainly with the size and number of splits I use, but also my beer can helps... I can hit and run the following ranges pretty easily 210-230, 250-270, and 300-325. Others may disagree, but I've never noticed this variation cause any difference in the final product but more importantly I can run a very clean and hot burning fire. I only get dirty smoke when I start her up... this is likely made easier that I use 70-100% oak and only use other woods in that 30% range to keep things consistent.

My stick burner isn't much of a leaker, but I'm not sure it would matter much with my method


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## bluewhisper (Jul 10, 2017)

My firebox has the typical round vent mounted in a swinging door. For most use I can set the round vent to get the air flow I want, but sometimes like startups I might swing the door open, too.

I also have a bigger round vent at the other end of the cooking chamber. For smoking it's always closed but I open it when I'm grilling in the cooking chamber.

In the last few months I've been experimenting at smoking with the fire in the cooking chamber, at the firebox end, with a mix of lump and wood. The food is on the grate at the exhaust end. Sort of pretending to be a Weber kettle. Then the temps can go much higher and the smokiness will depend on how much wood I have in the mix. If I want a bit of char I can move the food closer to the fire, or over it.

I have three grates, two wide and one narrow, and I often run it without one of the grates so I can slide the other two around as I like. It depends on what I'm cooking.

The Good Neighbor:













good_neighbor.jpg



__ bluewhisper
__ Jul 10, 2017






As far as I know, this is the only Masterbuilt offset on this board. I got it at a Sears hardware store so it's probably a model made for that market. Does anyone else have one?


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## uzikaduzi (Jul 10, 2017)

That looks like a common one that's rebranded... I had it branded as a New Braunfels... it was quite a bit of work to control temps with it, but it was my first smoker so there was also a bit of a learning curve for me (coupled with the internet not being what it is today when I owned it)

People complain about them, but I certainly made some good bbq on it... I ended up burning out the fire box after 2 years trying to use it as a stick burner


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## bluewhisper (Jul 10, 2017)

I've been running mine since May 2012 and it's still fine. I've completely scorched the paint on the firebox so it has superficial rust, but I don't care about looks. The OEM fire grate is pretty lame, sagging from heat,  so I retired it and now I run a fire basket. See my sig link for details.

Edited to add, I try to keep the firebox clean, not leave ash in it, because i suspect that old ash can hold moisture which promotes rust - especially in winter with cold/warm temperature swings.


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## sc smoke (Jul 10, 2017)

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I came on to search for 'why after my charcoal dies down in my OKJ Highlander, and I add wood to keep temperature, I lose my TBS and get white smoke'.  (I do have wood in with the charcoal, too)  This post helped me understand why and what I could do to minimize it.  

(I've been through the learning curve of having enough thick grey-white smoke that it looked like a new Pope was elected and meat taste like creosote).

Great info, glad I'm a member.


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## uzikaduzi (Jul 10, 2017)

BlueWhisper said:


> I've been running mine since May 2012 and it's still fine. I've completely scorched the paint on the firebox so it has superficial rust, but I don't care about looks. The OEM fire grate is pretty lame, sagging from heat,  so I retired it and now I run a fire basket. See my sig link for details.
> 
> Edited to add, I try to keep the firebox clean, not leave ash in it, because i suspect that old ash can hold moisture which promotes rust - especially in winter with cold/warm temperature swings.



I think your absolutely correct about keeping it cleaned out... quite impressive that it's still going strong for that long!


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## uzikaduzi (Jul 10, 2017)

SC Smoke said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you.
> I came on to search for 'why after my charcoal dies down in my OKJ Highlander, and I add wood to keep temperature, I lose my TBS and get white smoke'.  (I do have wood in with the charcoal, too)  This post helped me understand why and what I could do to minimize it.
> (I've been through the learning curve of having enough thick grey-white smoke that it looked like a new Pope was elected and meat taste like creosote).
> Great info, glad I'm a member.



Clean hot fire with plenty of air is the key to good smoke... even in those cases you can still get dirty smoke when adding new wood... a lot of guys prewarm them on the lid of the fire box and it helps a lot... I'm blessed with low humid triple digit summers and laying them in the sun seems to be enough for me


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## hardcookin (Jul 11, 2017)

Dave Schiller said:


> Well, back to the topic after the humorous interlude.
> 
> Obviously, lots of folks burn pure wood for heat AND smoke with great success.  And based on the large number of posters looking for sources of bagged wood chips, I doubt they are using wood totally.  So probably there are a lot of electric and gas smokers out there.  I guess they get good results or they would all be switching to stick burners.
> 
> ...



I think stick burners are out numbered by electric and gas smokers for a couple reasons
1. Price point...decent size offsets are not cheap...where you can get the other type smokers for 300-400 dollars.
2. People just want to set and forget and get a good nights sleep. Where with an offset your feeding it wood all night long.

Where a offset shines is with flavor and volume.


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## SmokinAl (Jul 11, 2017)

hardcookin said:


> I think stick burners are out numbered by electric and gas smokers for a couple reasons
> 1. Price point...decent size offsets are not cheap...where you can get the other type smokers for 300-400 dollars.
> 2. People just want to set and forget and get a good nights sleep. Where with an offset your feeding it wood all night long.
> 
> Where a offset shines is with flavor and volume.









You can't beat the flavor from a wood fire.

I have 4 smokers, electric, propane, charcoal, & wood.

They all produce very good Q, but the flavor winner is the stick burner. IMHO!

Al


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## jokensmoken (Jul 11, 2017)

Dave Schiller said:


> Well, back to the topic after the humorous interlude.
> 
> Obviously, lots of folks burn pure wood for heat AND smoke with great success.  And based on the large number of posters looking for sources of bagged wood chips, I doubt they are using wood totally.  So probably there are a lot of electric and gas smokers out there.  I guess they get good results or they would all be switching to stick burners.
> 
> ...


I've done that with three butts.  
One was cooked in my MB GASSER with a smoke tube with Lumberjack pellets mixed half and half apple and maple, one on my modified bullet with Webber's charcoal with apple and maple chunks and a third on an old Okie Joe stick burner I started with charcoal then maintained with  maple and apple splits. 
The butts we're in the 10 pound range and prepped the same way...The stick burner cooked the quickest, due to the slightly higher temps the Gasser next with the bullet taking slightly longer.  All had a great bark and pulled nicely and were served with no finishing or BBQ sauce.
Keeping in mind butts are very forgiving and kinda hard to screw up, my guests couldn't notice any difference...I personally like the stick burner but it could be the ambiance and asthetics of burning wood...on butts, side by side it was difficult to discern much difference...BUT AGAIN that's on big ole butts...not sure about ribs or chicken...I suspect the difference would be more noticeable.
The most notable difference was in the smoke ring.
The stick burner had the most pronounced ring...the bullet smoker was next with a slight ring and I had almost no ring from the Gasser.
NOW...all that being said, I prefer my stick burner when I've got the time...
Walt.


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