# Tenderquick Substitute



## erodinamik

I've tried and tried to find tenderquick, and I just used the locator and there is nothing within 50 miles of me.  I was wondering if there was a substitute for tenderquick?  I'm thinking about making some jerky and snack sticks and the like but I don't want to poison myself or my family/friends :-)  If anybody has any ideas/suggestions I would really appreciate it.


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## pops6927

You can order it from Butcher Packer: http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=237_12&products_id=61


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## tjohnson

I don't know of a substitute for TQ

Don't know if I would use TQ for jerky....To Much Salt!

Pink Salt will work, but not in the same amounts.

Jerky seasonings usually come with a packet of pink curing salt

Todd


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## gotarace

You can also order tenderqick here http://www.lemproducts.com/category/s?keyword=morton

They ship quickly and at reasonable prices.


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## pineywoods

There is NO substitute for Tender Quick there are other curing products but as was stated they would not be used at the same rate. If your recipe calls for Tender Quick and you decided to use Instacure #1 it would have to be a different amount. They will both cure the meat but you have to calculate how much you would need depending on the weight of the meat and the amount per pound of whichever product you are using. I have Tender Quick and Instacure #1 and find myself using the Instacure #1 most of the time. Also be aware there is Instacure #1 and Instacure #2 and they are NOT interchangeable either for snack sticks and such you'd want Instacure #1


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## diggingdogfarm

X


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## meateater

Pm sent.


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## Bearcarver

Pineywoods said:


> There is NO substitute for Tender Quick there are other curing products but as was stated they would not be used at the same rate. If your recipe calls for Tender Quick and you decided to use Instacure #1 it would have to be a different amount. They will both cure the meat but you have to calculate how much you would need depending on the weight of the meat and the amount per pound of whichever product you are using. I have Tender Quick and Instacure #1 and find myself using the Instacure #1 most of the time. Also be aware there is Instacure #1 and Instacure #2 and they are NOT interchangeable either for snack sticks and such you'd want Instacure #1


Exactly as stated above.

There are recipes for Jerky, using TQ, and recipes for Jerky using other cures. Do not mix the two.

Bear


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## Bearcarver

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Here's my recipe for a cure that's used at the same rate as Morton[emoji]174[/emoji] Tender Quick[emoji]174[/emoji] for recipes NOT requiring nitrate.
> 
> 17.5 oz salt (I use pickling salt)
> 
> 5.0 oz sugar
> 
> 2 oz cure #1
> 
> It's super easy to use......
> 
> For dry curing....use one tablespoon (1/2 oz.) per pound of meat.
> 
> For curing ground meats such as sausage....use 1/2 tablespoon (1/4 oz.) per pound of meat...it provides ALL the cure and the salt for the recipe.....no additional salt is needed.
> 
> ~Dig


Should note that if you use this mix, make sure you mix it really well, so the 2 ounces of cure is evenly distributed. Then if you have some left, and you use that at a later date, make sure you mix that really well again, because the different ingredients could separate. Morton's TQ doesn't have that problem because of an additive & a process they use to avoid stratification.

Thanks,

Bear


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## africanmeat

[h4]Tender Quick:  what it is and how it is used in barbecue[/h4]
By JOE AMES

KANSAS CITY, Missouri -- Many barbecue cooks have heard of *Tender Quick* but do not understand what it is and how it it used.  Its purpose is to cure and *tender*ize meat *quick*ly ("Tender Quick")..
[h5]What it is[/h5]
Tender Quick is a blend of salt, sugar, sodium nitrate, sodium nitrite, and propylene glycol.  The amount of sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite are 0.5%.
[h5]Why it is used[/h5]
For centuries, nitrates and nitrites have been used to cure meat.  They reduce the risk of botulism poisoning while the meat cures, and they change the meat's color into the typical pink of ham and cured sausage.
[h5]What the ingredients do[/h5]
The salt aids the flavor and preservation of the meat.  The sugar mellows the salt.  The nitrate turns into nitrite, which turns into a gas, and this is what cures the meat.  The propylene glycol is a preservative.
[h5]Why it was developed[/h5]
To be effective in curing meat, there must be the correct amount of nitrates and nitrites evenly distributed throughout the curing mixture.  Too much or too little nitrates or nitrites is ineffective and possibly dangerous.  However, it is very difficult for a home cook to create the proper curing mixture, because the ingredients of salt, sugar and nitrates cannot be mixed effectively.  The proper amount of nitrate and nitrite are less than 1%.  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture.

Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are *bonded*.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.


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## diggingdogfarm

X


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## diggingdogfarm




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## pineywoods

Or just rest your brain a little and order some TQ and some Instacure #1 and keep some of both on hand so you can use whichever the recipe calls for


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## diggingdogfarm

X


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## Bearcarver

africanmeat said:


> [h4]Tender Quick:  what it is and how it is used in barbecue[/h4]
> By JOE AMES
> 
> KANSAS CITY, Missouri -- Many barbecue cooks have heard of *Tender Quick* but do not understand what it is and how it it used.  Its purpose is to cure and *tender*ize meat *quick*ly ("Tender Quick")..
> [h5]What it is[/h5]
> Tender Quick is a blend of salt, sugar, sodium nitrate, sodium nitrite, and propylene glycol.  The amount of sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite are 0.5%.
> [h5]Why it is used[/h5]
> For centuries, nitrates and nitrites have been used to cure meat.  They reduce the risk of botulism poisoning while the meat cures, and they change the meat's color into the typical pink of ham and cured sausage.
> [h5]What the ingredients do[/h5]
> The salt aids the flavor and preservation of the meat.  The sugar mellows the salt.  The nitrate turns into nitrite, which turns into a gas, and this is what cures the meat.  The propylene glycol is a preservative.
> [h5]Why it was developed[/h5]
> To be effective in curing meat, there must be the correct amount of nitrates and nitrites evenly distributed throughout the curing mixture.  Too much or too little nitrates or nitrites is ineffective and possibly dangerous.  However, it is very difficult for a home cook to create the proper curing mixture, because the ingredients of salt, sugar and nitrates cannot be mixed effectively.  The proper amount of nitrate and nitrite are less than 1%.  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture.
> 
> Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are *bonded*.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.


Very good post !

Thanks Ahron. This is what I was referring to, but I couldn't find it.

That bonding is what makes it OK to dip into a 2 pound bag of Tender Quick, 15 times over 6 months, without re-mixing it, and always come out with the same mix.

Bear


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## diggingdogfarm

X


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## Bearcarver

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Just curious...
> 
> Is it a fear of possibly too much nitrite that makes some needlessly afraid of a homemade mix?
> 
> ~Dig


Fear is not involved.

Using cures properly is the objective.

Nothing wrong with a homemade mix, if done correctly.

Your percentages look fine to me.

What I stated in my posts explains my feelings on keeping things mixed properly.

It is important to mix any type of mixture, but not as important as when cure is involved.

The End

Bear


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## diggingdogfarm

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## diggingdogfarm

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## Bearcarver

Perhaps someone should tell Morton's that stratification will not occur, and they wasted their time bonding Tender Quick to avoid it.

This has been discussed many times on this site. I will take the word of a very successful American company and their scientists.

Bear


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## diggingdogfarm

X


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## alblancher

Just find some Cure 1 and use recipes designed for Cure 1.  You will have more control over the salt content and not be using unnecessary nitrates for most of your cures.  If interested in long term cured products like hams and some sausages you will need Cure 2 and maybe some bacterial cultures.  I suggest as a person new to this hobby start out simple with simple recipes and learn proper techniques.  Let me know if you need some help.  The amount of Cure 1 used and recommend in most recipes and by the USDA are well within safe levels and you would have to be very careless to get an unsafe product.

Start simple, learn good technique, use refrigeration, measure by weight and not by volume and if in doubt ask or just throw it away. 

Let me know how I can help

Al


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## Bearcarver

DiggingDogFarm said:


> Morton Salt is now a German company.
> 
> Keep in mind that Tender Quick was invented at a time when saltpeter was in use for the home curing of meat, which can be quite dangerous when not properly used, there was no cure #1 or cure #2 at that time.
> 
> Tender Quick was a revolution that allowed home curer's to safely cure meat, it's not so unique today.
> 
> What do you think of the amount of Tender Quick used in the jerky recipe I posted above? That's a lota salt, nitrite and nitrate!!! LOL
> 
> ~Dig


That's not even close to the recipe currently in the Morton Meat Curing book.

The current one calls for 1 TBS per pound of meat.

Dry cure for 1 hour, rinse, and dry.

This is not too much salt. IMO

I'm not here to discuss really old cures that I've never seen.

The only reason I commented on your original post on this was to caution people to mix your mixture well.

I found no fault with your mixture.

You had to come back with that not being important, so the rest of these posts were born.

When things like this come up, I make comments to tell people how to be careful.

Others reply that it's not important.

I have told people to be careful getting through the danger zone, and I have had replies like, "I have been smoking meat for 35 years, and I never heard of NO Danger Zone".

I'm not arguing with you. I just try to keep things safe for people who may not know something, or haven't thought about it.

When I tell people to mix a mixture well when it has cure in it, because it could be dangerous, and you tell them it's not any more important than mixing seasonings, that can be a problem.

If you are right, and people listen to me, I caused people to take a minute to mix the mixture well, when they really didn't have to.

If I am right, and people listen to you, someone could get sick, or worse.

Please don't make it harder for us to help people stay safe.

Hoping this is finished now,

Thanks,

Bear


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## diggingdogfarm

Bearcarver said:


> I'm not here to discuss really old cures that I've never seen.
> 
> The only reason I commented on your original post on this was to caution people to mix your mixture well.
> 
> I found no fault with your mixture.
> 
> *You had to come back with that not being important*, so the rest of these posts were born.
> 
> When things like this come up, I make comments to tell people how to be careful.
> 
> *Others reply that it's not important.*
> 
> I have told people to be careful getting through the danger zone, and I have had replies like, "I have been smoking meat for 35 years, and I never heard of NO Danger Zone".
> 
> I'm not arguing with you. I just try to keep things safe for people who may not know something, or haven't thought about it.
> 
> When I tell people to mix a mixture well when it has cure in it, because it could be dangerous, *and you tell them it's not any more important than mixing seasonings, that can be a problem.*
> 
> If you are right, and people listen to me, I caused people to take a minute to mix the mixture well, when they really didn't have to.
> 
> If I am right, and people listen to you, someone could get sick, or worse.
> 
> Please don't make it harder for us to help people stay safe.
> 
> Hoping this is finished now,
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bear


I'm very sorry that you're very confused and either have not read my replies very well or did not understand them.

I *NEVER* stated that mixing is not important.

In Post #11 DiggingDogFarm wrote....*"It is a good idea to mix it well before each use, but that goes for any type of mixture."*

In Post #19 DiggingDogFarm wrote....*"**Of course mixing is important**, but, I think that some are assuming that the mixture separates easily, which definitely **is NOT  the case.....the ingredients are hydroscopic so they absorb a bit of atmospheric moisture keeping the mixture homogeneous.*

*But, as with any mixture...mix well before use!"*

Please don't imply that I'm making it hard for you or anyone else to help people stay safe, nothing I've posted is unsafe.

~Dig


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## Bearcarver

Excuse my wording:

My point was that your replies reflect that you don't feel mixing mixtures containing cure to be any more important than mixing any other ingredients.

That is not how I feel about mixing cure, and that is not a good thing to tell people.

If that is implying that you are making it hard to help people to stay safe, it is because a statement like that has to be answered to keep people safe.

If you would not do that, I would have no reason to reply, which I have tried not  to have to do, ever since all I said was to mix your mixture well.

And I'm going to mention one more time, If Morton Salt Scientists didn't think Stratification could occur, they would not have bonded Tender Quick.

I'm tired of playing this game with you, and since this is my last reply, I will say people can read what you said & read what I said, and hopefully they can see what is safe. 

All this has done nothing to change the few important things I have said:

Use Tender Quick (with TQ instructions), or use Cure #1(with Cure #1 instructions). If you make your own mix, be sure to mix it well. If you have some left, either toss it, or mix it well again, before using it again. Very Simple!

Bear


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## alaskanbear

I have to full-heartedly agree with Bear.. Not EVERYONE is in the same tier of knowledge and the amount of valuable information on safety should be the FIRST line of instruction.  It appears that an individual has had excellent results with his or her own mixtures of ingredients, preferring those over store bought, time tested, scientific data backed products. The beginner or even us old pharts, need to ensure what we say on this or any forum, be on the side of 'over-kill' as far as safety is concerned.  Vicarious Liability is with the written word..  Just MHO.

Rich


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## fpnmf

Yawn....

To the OP!!

 Get some or all of the Marianski books about curing meat and stuff.  Amazon sells them.

 Get the right tools for the job.

Read this about curing salts, and have a great day!!

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts  

  Craig


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## diggingdogfarm

Bearcarver said:


> Excuse my wording:
> 
> My point was that your replies reflect that you don't feel mixing mixtures containing cure to be any more important than mixing any other ingredients.
> 
> That is not how I feel about mixing cure, and that is not a good thing to tell people.
> 
> If that is implying that you are making it hard to help people to stay safe, it is because a statement like that has to be answered to keep people safe.
> 
> If you would not do that, I would have no reason to reply, which I have tried not  to have to do, ever since all I said was to mix your mixture well.
> 
> And I'm going to mention one more time, If Morton Salt Scientists didn't think Stratification could occur, they would not have bonded Tender Quick.
> 
> I'm tired of playing this game with you, and since this is my last reply, I will say people can read what you said & read what I said, and hopefully they can see what is safe.
> 
> All this has done nothing to change the few important things I have said:
> 
> Use Tender Quick (with TQ instructions), or use Cure #1(with Cure #1 instructions). If you make your own mix, be sure to mix it well. If you have some left, either toss it, or mix it well again, before using it again. Very Simple!
> 
> Bear


I can see that your intent is to misrepresent what I've said and suggest things that I did NOT say!

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that.

Your spinning of the facts isn't going to work.

~Dig


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## africanmeat

Let me add My 5 cent worth to this argument. Rich  is right, here at SMF we got pros and newbie and the whole spectrum in between, no body will take the risk to advice on a risky method to the whole forum.and risk some body health. i want


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## alaskanbear

From Morton's Salt:

This mix is a fast cure product that has been developed as a cure for meat, poultry, game, salmon, shad, and sablefish. It is a combination of high grade salt and other quality curing ingredients that can be used for both dry and sweet pickle curing. Morton[emoji]174[/emoji] Tender Quick[emoji]174[/emoji] mix contains salt, the main preserving agent; sugar, both sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite, curing agents that also contribute to development of color and flavor; and propylene glycol to keep the mixture uniform. Morton[emoji]174[/emoji] Tender Quick[emoji]174[/emoji] mix can be used interchangeably with Morton[emoji]174[/emoji] Sugar Cure[emoji]174[/emoji] (Plain) mix. It is NOT a meat tenderizer.

CAUTION: This curing salt is designed to be used at the rate specified in the formulation or recipe. It should not be used at higher levels as results will be inconsistent, cured meats will be too salty, and the finished products may be unsatisfactory. Curing salts should be used only in meat, poultry, game, salmon, shad and sablefish. Curing salts cannot be substituted for regular salt in other food recipes. Always keep meat refrigerated (36° to 40°F) while curing.
  

Guess that should answer the question!

Rich


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## diggingdogfarm

I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make.

There's nothing unsafe about making your own mix as long as you do it right.

Just because Morton has a custom product such as this, it doesn't automatically mean something else that's properly made is unsafe to use!!!!

Thank goodness they don't make their own pumping brine or soaking brine or you'd insist that that is the only safe brine product to use, when the reality is that thousands of people safely mix up their own brines AND dry cures all the time!!!

If someone doesn't trust themselves, and likes to waste money....go ahead and use the Morton's products, there's nothing wrong with doing that.

But please don't imply that making your own dry cures is unsafe when done properly.

What I've posted meets the accepted safety standards.

*Processing Inspectors' Calculations Handbook*

[font=arial, sans-serif]http://www.aamp.com/documents/Directive7620-3.pdf[/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]New thread about safe dry cure mixes.......[/font]

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/108210/safe-dry-cure-mixes#post_652381

~Dig


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## alelover

TJohnson said:


> I don't know of a substitute for TQ
> 
> Don't know if I would use TQ for jerky....To Much Salt!
> 
> Pink Salt will work, but not in the same amounts.
> 
> Jerky seasonings usually come with a packet of pink curing salt
> 
> Todd


I use TQ for jerky and it's not too salty. After I rub it I marinate it so that dilutes the saltiness I think.


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## solaryellow

I mix my own TQ substitute all the time which allows me to exclude nitrate. I understand the bonding argument but I think to assume people aren't able to mix their own is faulty logic. That would mean for any recipe to be effective you would have to do the same bonding process for all dry ingredients to ensure equal distribution of curing salt. Unless your chocolate chips end up in 1 or 2 cookies when you make chocolate chips cookies you should be able to mix your own TQ substitute.


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## cowgirl

Interesting thread. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I'm a firm believer that there is more than one way to cure meat. I enjoy reading about ALL methods.

 I use old family recipes that would curl the hair of some people here and sometimes I use tenderquick (just cause it's easy).

Thanks for all the input on this thread.. and remember, just because someone uses a different method than what you do, it doesn't make them wrong.

Some are new to curing and have only been doing it a short time and others have been doing it for a life time.


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## tjohnson

alelover said:


> I use TQ for jerky and it's not too salty. After I rub it I marinate it so that dilutes the saltiness I think.


TQ is easy to use, but for health reasons, some members(Including Me!) had to cut down on salt.  Every little bit counts!

I now use commercial cures that I get from a local butcher supply.  You can also get them at Butcher-Packer or Midwestern Research.  For Bacon, I use Country Brown Cure.  For jerky, I use my own recipes, that cut down on salt.


solaryellow said:


> I mix my own TQ substitute all the time which allows me to exclude nitrate. I understand the bonding argument but I think to assume people aren't able to mix their own is faulty logic. That would mean for any recipe to be effective you would have to do the same bonding process for all dry ingredients to ensure equal distribution of curing salt. Unless your chocolate chips end up in 1 or 2 cookies when you make chocolate chips cookies you should be able to mix your own TQ substitute.


A HUGE step that is left out of Home Made Cure Recipes is how the cure is mixed with the meat.  If (1) tsp. of Cure #1 is used to 5# of meat, then the chance of dry cure #1 being distributed evenly throughout the meat is far less than when mixed with water or another liquid.  I think this is why guys like Pops brine cure instead of dry cure.

When making sausage or jerky, I dissolve Cure #1 in water with the other spices.  Jerky is marinated in the cure/spice/water mix or the cure/spice/water mix is combined with the sausage, and mixed very well.

Todd


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## alblancher

TJohnson,

 the procedure I follow and is confirmed in the Marianski book calls for making 3 different applications of cure to dry cured bacon over the curing process.  The cure pulls moisture from the bacon and the bacon reabsorbs the moisture and cure to achieve a hydrostatic equilibrium.  It is more labor intensive, requires some patience and attention to detail but I like the results.


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## alelover

If you're salt sensitive I can see where that would be too much salt using TQ.


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## tjohnson

alblancher said:


> TJohnson,
> 
> the procedure I follow and is confirmed in the Marianski book calls for making 3 different applications of cure to dry cured bacon over the curing process.  The cure pulls moisture from the bacon and the bacon reabsorbs the moisture and cure to achieve a hydrostatic equilibrium.  It is more labor intensive, requires some patience and attention to detail but I like the results.


True and exactly how I cure bacon, except I add a couple oz. of water to start the process.  I actually read that if the bacon does not sweat and make it's own brine, to add a few oz. of water.  It works for me.

My fear is that someone would add 1 tsp. of dry cure to 5# of ground meat or sliced meat for jerky, and then expect every nook and cranny to be cured properly.  Water is added during the process of sausage making, in-order to stuff the casings, so my point is to add the cure and spices to water first, and them mix thoroughly into the meat.

Sounds like common sense....Right? 

I'm speaking from my own experience and making the mistake of applying cure separately. 

The sausage may have been OK, but I was not confident that I had cured it correctly, so i threw it out.

Todd


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## solaryellow

TJohnson said:


> A HUGE step that is left out of Home Made Cure Recipes is how the cure is mixed with the meat.  If (1) tsp. of Cure #1 is used to 5# of meat, then the chance of dry cure #1 being distributed evenly throughout the meat is far less than when mixed with water or another liquid.  I think this is why guys like Pops brine cure instead of dry cure.
> When making sausage or jerky, I dissolve Cure #1 in water with the other spices.  Jerky is marinated in the cure/spice/water mix or the cure/spice/water mix is combined with the sausage, and mixed very well.
> 
> Todd




The 1 tsp per 5lbs of meat is for dry curing though. In a brine or wet cure, you have to account for the weight of the meat and the liquid so you will use a lot more cure #1 than what you would for a dry cure. Equalization takes care of the rest assuming you are following the rules.

I also wet cure my jerky. My bacon I prefer a dry cure though.


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## tjohnson

alelover said:


> If you're salt sensitive I can see where that would be too much salt using TQ.




Never was salt sensitive until the dietician slapped me with a low salt diet.
After you get used to it, extra salt makes you blow up like a balloon and it takes days to drop the water weight.

She even told me I could not drink beer anymore!!!

Todd


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## Bearcarver

TJohnson said:


> True and exactly how I cure bacon, except I add a couple oz. of water to start the process.  I actually read that if the bacon does not sweat and make it's own brine, to add a few oz. of water.  It works for me.
> 
> My fear is that someone would add 1 tsp. of dry cure to 5# of ground meat or sliced meat for jerky, and then expect every nook and cranny to be cured properly.  Water is added during the process of sausage making, in-order to stuff the casings, so my point is to add the cure and spices to water first, and them mix thoroughly into the meat.
> 
> Sounds like common sense....Right?
> 
> I'm speaking from my own experience and making the mistake of applying cure separately.
> 
> The sausage may have been OK, but I was not confident that I had cured it correctly, so i threw it out.
> 
> Todd


Sounds like a good idea to me.

Bear


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## tjohnson

solaryellow said:


> The 1 tsp per 5lbs of meat is for dry curing though. In a brine or wet cure, you have to account for the weight of the meat and the liquid so you will use a lot more cure #1 than what you would for a dry cure. Equalization takes care of the rest assuming you are following the rules.
> I also wet cure my jerky. My bacon I prefer a dry cure though.


Seriously?!?!?!

You take into account the weight of the water too?

I brine cured bacon once and prefer dry cured anyway, but this scares the heck out of me!

So if you use a gallon of water = Approx. 8lbs. and lets say 15 lbs. slab bacon, you use enough cure for 23# total?

This is where a little knowledge can be dangerous!

Good thing I don't brine cure anymore!

Todd(aka:"Little Knowledge")


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## Bearcarver

TJohnson said:


> Seriously?!?!?!
> 
> You take into account the weight of the water too?
> 
> I brine cured bacon once and prefer dry cured anyway, but this scares the heck out of me!
> 
> So if you use a gallon of water = Approx. 8lbs. and lets say 15 lbs. slab bacon, you use enough cure for 23# total?
> 
> Good thing I don't brine cure anymore!
> 
> Todd


Not how I was told:

They say use the right amount of water & cure ratio.

Then the amount of meat doesn't matter---It must be submerged.

I could be wrong, because I have not done it & haven't studied it.

Bear


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## alelover

No beer. Yikes. That's where I draw the line.


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## tjohnson

I called her a "Fun Sucker!"

How about a "Beer Based Brine Cure"?

LOL!

TJ


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## solaryellow

Bearcarver said:


> Not how I was told:
> 
> They say use the right amount of water & cure ratio.
> 
> Then the amount of meat doesn't matter---It must be submerged.
> 
> I could be wrong, because I have not done it & haven't studied it.
> 
> Bear


This is what frustrates me. There are two methods in two different threads today that you have stated your opinion on that you actually have no frame of reference about.

Do me a favor. Create 2 gallons of pastrami brine using TQ (because it doesn't matter) and in a 5 gallon bucket put in a gallon of brine and a single brisket. And in another 5 gallon bucket put in 3 or 4 briskets and a gallon of brine (believe me, a gallon of brine will cover them). Let them cure and then smoke them at the same time making sure you keep the two differently brined brisket types separate and then sample them. Post your discovery.




TJohnson said:


> Seriously?!?!?!
> 
> You take into account the weight of the water too?
> 
> I brine cured bacon once and prefer dry cured anyway, but this scares the heck out of me!
> 
> So if you use a gallon of water = Approx. 8lbs. and lets say 15 lbs. slab bacon, you use enough cure for 23# total?
> 
> This is where a little knowledge can be dangerous!
> 
> Good thing I don't brine cure anymore!
> 
> Todd(aka:"Little Knowledge")


Seriously. I believe that is why more than a few of us feel so passionate about this issue.


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## pineywoods

TJohnson said:


> Never was salt sensitive until the dietician slapped me with a low salt diet.
> After you get used to it, extra salt makes you blow up like a balloon and it takes days to drop the water weight.
> 
> She even told me I could not drink beer anymore!!!
> 
> Todd


See that's why I look so fat I eat to much salt everyday so I never loose the water 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Digs calculations are correct and his recipe will work fine. I'm just too lazy to do all the math so I cheat and use the stuff out of the bags. I use TQ for some things and I use Instacure #1 for some things.


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## alblancher

Piney,  I've seen you up close,  If that's water you got hanging over your belt it sure does a good job of masquerading as beer belly. 

Your lard butt cohort in crime,  Al


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## rich-

I have been using Morton Tender Quick for almost a year now and have made up at least 100 pounds of Beef Pepperoni and as this date, no one has gotten sick or died from what I have made.

Mortons has been making this stuff longer than I can remember, so I trust them.


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## alblancher

TenderQuick is a fine cure for pepperoni and other dry sausages.


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## Bearcarver

solaryellow said:


> This is what frustrates me. There are two methods in two different threads today that you have stated your opinion on that you actually have no frame of reference about.
> 
> Do me a favor. Create 2 gallons of pastrami brine using TQ (because it doesn't matter) and in a 5 gallon bucket put in a gallon of brine and a single brisket. And in another 5 gallon bucket put in 3 or 4 briskets and a gallon of brine (believe me, a gallon of brine will cover them). Let them cure and then smoke them at the same time making sure you keep the two differently brined brisket types separate and then sample them. Post your discovery.


That really wasn't my opinion, I was only stating what I had read, and what I would believe to be correct. Here is one of the places I read it (From "Pops" on "using a brine to cure meat"):

===========================================================================================

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/104221/using-a-brine-to-cure-meat

According to the 1 lb. bag of DQ Cure #1, you use 24 lbs. of curing salt to 100 gallons of water for a curing pickle.  This would be the maximum amount you'd use.

Reduce that by 100 to 1 gallon, it would be .24 of a lb. to 1 gallon of water, or approx. 4 ounces of cure #!.

I use approx. 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon of water.  A level tablespoon is .8 of an ounce.  A rounded tablespoon is approx. 1 ounce, or ¼ the maximum allowed.  And, I find this sufficient to pickle any pork or beef or poultry I need to do.  I will allow more time for it to cure, just from my dad's instruction on how long to let it cure; 2-3 days for poultry, 7 - 10 days for half-butts (buckboard) or bellies, 2 weeks for picnics once pumped, 3-4 weeks for whole hams once pumped.  I've never tried it with less times, simply because the cost of the product is too valuable on my limited income and unlimited (so it seems, lol!) medical bills.  But, it produces a nicely cured product without the need to soak or freshen it to get rid of unnecessary salt (and I've limited the amount of salt I add also).

*As for the amount of brine, your proportion of curing salt to water is the important ratio, and just use whatever amount of brine necessary to cover the product.  You can pickle 1 ham in 1 gallon of water/curing salt or 100 gallons of water/curing salt, it doesn't matter, as long as it's proportioned correctly per gallon. *  Of course, you add more ingredients in salts and sugars, etc. to enhance the bouquet of flavors in your pickle.

Again, my dad's theory was that a mild curing brine for a longer period of time made the product more tender and flavorful instead of a shorter time, more concentrated cure.  He sold hundreds of thousands of product over 45 years in business, and his customers readily agreed!

============================================================================================


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## solaryellow

Bearcarver said:


> That really wasn't my opinion, I was only stating what I had read, and what I would believe to be correct. Here is one of the places I read it (From "Pops" on "using a brine to cure meat"):
> 
> ===========================================================================================
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/104221/using-a-brine-to-cure-meat
> 
> According to the 1 lb. bag of DQ Cure #1, you use 24 lbs. of curing salt to 100 gallons of water for a curing pickle.  This would be the maximum amount you'd use.
> 
> Reduce that by 100 to 1 gallon, it would be .24 of a lb. to 1 gallon of water, or approx. 4 ounces of cure #!.
> 
> I use approx. 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon of water.  A level tablespoon is .8 of an ounce.  A rounded tablespoon is approx. 1 ounce, or ¼ the maximum allowed.  And, I find this sufficient to pickle any pork or beef or poultry I need to do.  I will allow more time for it to cure, just from my dad's instruction on how long to let it cure; 2-3 days for poultry, 7 - 10 days for half-butts (buckboard) or bellies, 2 weeks for picnics once pumped, 3-4 weeks for whole hams once pumped.  I've never tried it with less times, simply because the cost of the product is too valuable on my limited income and unlimited (so it seems, lol!) medical bills.  But, it produces a nicely cured product without the need to soak or freshen it to get rid of unnecessary salt (and I've limited the amount of salt I add also).
> 
> *As for the amount of brine, your proportion of curing salt to water is the important ratio, and just use whatever amount of brine necessary to cover the product.  You can pickle 1 ham in 1 gallon of water/curing salt or 100 gallons of water/curing salt, it doesn't matter, as long as it's proportioned correctly per gallon. *  Of course, you add more ingredients in salts and sugars, etc. to enhance the bouquet of flavors in your pickle.
> 
> Again, my dad's theory was that a mild curing brine for a longer period of time made the product more tender and flavorful instead of a shorter time, more concentrated cure.  He sold hundreds of thousands of product over 45 years in business, and his customers readily agreed!
> 
> ============================================================================================


You highlighted the pertinent information (pertinent meaning the proportions) so I will assume you understand my concern at this point (three months later). Even so, I will take the value of personal experience over "what I read on some internet forum". Give my challenge a try Bear. I am sure it will change your mindset.


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## jeff 1

For me I like andI use cure #1 all the time.  Mostly always in a wet cure and soak my meat and its on the low end of the spectrum and give it plenty of time to work.  When it is not being soaked and it is used in ground suasage I will disolve it well in liqued along with the other seasoning and mix in to meat between first and second grind and it always gets mixed very very well and only 5lbs of meat at a time,  Then I will let the suasage sit in fridge for a day before i do anything with it.


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## jc1947

erodinamik said:


> I've tried and tried to find tenderquick, and I just used the locator and there is nothing within 50 miles of me.  I was wondering if there was a substitute for tenderquick?  I'm thinking about making some jerky and snack sticks and the like but I don't want to poison myself or my family/friends :-)  If anybody has any ideas/suggestions I would really appreciate it.


*Back when I lived in Vegas VON'S carried TQ. Perhaps they can order it for you if they don't stock it anymore.*

*JC1947*


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## erodinamik

JC1947 said:


> *Back when I lived in Vegas VON'S carried TQ. Perhaps they can order it for you if they don't stock it anymore.*
> 
> *JC1947*


Thanks.  I just went ahead and ordered it online.  One of these days I'll actually get around to using it.  I will keep my eyes open at Von's though.


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## kingkoch42

gone


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## tjohnson

I believe he deleted all his posts

TJ


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## shtrdave

TJohnson said:


> Never was salt sensitive until the dietician slapped me with a low salt diet.After you get used to it, extra salt makes you blow up like a balloon and it takes days to drop the water weight.
> 
> She even told me I could not drink beer anymore!!!
> 
> Todd


I was reading through this again, not sure why a new post brought it back to the top, and I see this, I feel bad for you my friend, I don't drink much but can't imagine a world without beer.

With this being cider season here, we are drinking the apple pie.


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