# Brisket help



## cooker613 (Jan 27, 2019)

So, I found a couple of ponds of sliced brisket in the freeze. Defrosted and had for lunch. The flavor was great, however it was a little tough. I think I pulled it too soon. Anyway, I had an idea to re-vacseal and drop into the sousvide. I was thinking of about 140 degrees for maybe three or four hours. 
Any thought or ideas? Am I even on the right path? 
Thanks


----------



## SonnyE (Jan 27, 2019)

Beats me. But I want to see how it comes out and what you think about it.

 Watching.

(I don't do Brisket. But I'm trying to pick up SV tricks.)


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Jan 27, 2019)

I think you need to increase the temperature to 150f or so. I forgot the exact temperature at which collagen breaks down but isn't 140f the bare minimum at which it can?


----------



## cooker613 (Jan 27, 2019)

TomKnollRFV said:


> I think you need to increase the temperature to 150f or so. I forgot the exact temperature at which collagen breaks down but isn't 140f the bare minimum at which it can?


Thanks

Update: after two hours at there was some improvement. I am returning it to the bathat 155 for another couple of hours. I will keep you updated.


----------



## old sarge (Jan 27, 2019)

Never done sous vide but I smoke a lot of briskets.  I always shoot for an internal temp of 190/195. Very tender and juicy.  Never had a need to reheat as it goes on the first serving. I am interested in how it goes.


----------



## daveomak (Jan 27, 2019)

From Baldwin's SV thing....

Cut slits in the fat cap in a crosshatch patter. Brine the brisket in a 4% salt, 3% sugar solution (40 grams salt and 30 grams sugar per liter of water) in the refrigerator for 2–3 hours. Rinse and dry brisket with paper towels.

Flavor the brisket either by smoking it for 30–60 minutes or by searing the fat cap with a blowtorch. Then vacuum seal the brisket either whole or cut into two to four pieces.

While the famed French Laundry is said to cook their brisket in a 147°F (64°C) water bath for 48 hours, I prefer to cook brisket at 176°F (80°C) for 24–36 hours. Alternatively, some like to cook brisket at 135°F (57°C) for 36–48 hours. Since some of the liquid in the bag will change phase (to gas), the bag will puff and may float to the surface. To prevent uneven cooking, the bags should be held under water using a wire rack or some other restraint. [After cooking, the brisket may be rapidly cooled in ice water (see Table 1.1) and frozen or refrigerated at below 38°F (3.3°C) for up to three to four weeks until needed.]

Remove the brisket from the vacuum sealed pouch and use the liquid from the bag to create a quick sauce (by reducing in a pan over medium-high heat and adding a corn starch slurry to thicken). Slice the meat across grain into long, thin slices and serve with beef glace.


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Jan 28, 2019)

cooker613 said:


> Thanks
> 
> Update: after two hours at there was some improvement. I am returning it to the bathat 155 for another couple of hours. I will keep you updated.


Well I'm waiting to see how it turned out!


----------



## dr k (Jan 28, 2019)

TomKnollRFV said:


> I think you need to increase the temperature to 150f or so. I forgot the exact temperature at which collagen breaks down but isn't 140f the bare minimum at which it can?



These following paragraphs go along with Dave's SV thing from Baldwin above.  Collagenase is an enzyme similar to post rigor enzymes like Calpains and Cathepsin that break down collagen into gelatin before heat denatures it into gelatin.  Calpain enzymes deactivate at 104*F and Cathepsin at 122*F and collagenase at 140*F so the 135*F for 36-48 hours recipe for brisket Dave has above in his post keeps the collagenase enzyme action throughout the entire SV cook which I'll try sometime.  The other two enzymes from a thermoworks recipe work very quickly just under their deactivation temps compared to wet or dry aging in a fridge.  Just fifteen minutes in the 90* range offers dual enzyme action which is also prime danger zone temps but has a drastic impact on tenderness.  If I can soak a brisket flat at 90* for a half hour or a chuck roast, before bumping to 135* to soak for 30 hours and have the beef pasteurized within the first four hours, that may insure fork tenderness from the dual calpain/cathepsin action.  It's figuring out how long it takes to ramp up SV bath temp from 90 to 131+ to pasteurize in a safe time period.      

*Tough Meat*
Prolonged cooking (e.g., braising) has been used to make tough cuts of meat more palatable since ancient times. Indeed, prolonged cooking can more than double the tenderness of the meat by dissolving all the collagen into gelatin and reducing inter-fiber adhesion to essentially nothing (Davey et al., 1976). At 176°F (80°C), Davey et al. (1976) found that these effects occur within about 12–24 hours with tenderness increasing only slightly when cooked for 50 to 100 hours.

At lower temperatures (120°F/50°C to 150°F/ 65°C), Bouton and Harris (1981) found that tough cuts of beef (from animals 0–4 years old) were the most tender when cooked to between 131°F and 140°F (55°C and 60°C). Cooking the beef for 24 hours at these temperatures significantly increased its tenderness (with shear forces decreasing 26%–72% compared to 1 hour of cooking). This tenderizing is caused by weakening of connective tissue and proteolytic enzymes decreasing myofibrillar tensile strength. Indeed, collagen begins to dissolve into gelatin above 122°F to 131°F (50°C to 55°C) (Neklyudov, 2003; This, 2006). Moreover, the sarcoplasmic protein enzyme collagenase remains active below 140°F (60°C) and can significantly tenderize the meat if held for more than 6 hours (Tornberg, 2005). This is why beef chuck roast cooked in a 131°F–140°F (55°C–60°C) water bath for 24–48 hours has the texture of filet mignon.


----------



## cooker613 (Jan 28, 2019)

Update:
First thanks for all the great input.
My issue was as it was already cooked, but clearly not to tender, how to repair. To review, I first tried 140 degrees for two hours. The was some improvement but not enough. Next I bumped the temp up to 155 for another row hours. More improvement, but again not there yet. I think I’ll try 165 in two hour increments until I reach brisket heaven .


----------



## cooker613 (Jan 29, 2019)

Updating the update:
Well another fours hours @ 160 did trick. That tough brisket became meltingly tender while still maintaining some nice texture. Wish I had done right the first time, but sous vide for the save!


----------



## cooker613 (Jan 29, 2019)

All’s well that ends well. BBQ beef sandwiches on challa.


----------



## pc farmer (Jan 29, 2019)

Thanks for the info.  I am just getting in to SV stuff


----------

