# Cold Smoked Salmon



## Oleg (Oct 29, 2018)

Hi all, I've been cold smoking salmon for about a year but I thought I'd put my method here for your critique. If I am not doing it right I'd rather know than keep playing a Russian roulette.

 - Fresh salmon is covered in salt and sugar. for 24 hrs. for farmed or 12 hrs. for wild in the refrigerator.
 - Salmon is washed and then put in cold water for 40 min to 1hr. in the refrigerator.
 - Dry with paper towel and let dry for 1-3hrs. 
 - Smoke at 40-50F for 4hrs.
 - Wrap in foil and keep in the refrigerator for 24hrs. to allow salt more evenly distribute.
 - Slice against the grain about 1/8-1/4" thick.

Looks spectacular (attached picture does not do justice) and tastes better than store bought.


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## SonnyE (Oct 29, 2018)

It looks Great to me Oleg, and since you are still alive, both are testimony to being successful.


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## tropics (Oct 30, 2018)

Oleg Here is a very good post to read.You are taking some chance cold smoking without using cure #1
I have a Salmon soaking right now that I cured for 3 days.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/homemade-lox-with-recipe-steps-plenty-of-q-view.106029/


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## SmokinAl (Oct 30, 2018)

Yes I agree with the above. I always use cure #1 for lox!
If anything it's for my own piece of mind.
I also freeze the lox after I slice & vac pack it, for 7 days below -3 degrees F.
This will kill any parasites in the fish.
Just another safety measure.
I may go overboard, but I'd rather be safe than sorry!
Al


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

SmokinAl said:


> Yes I agree with the above. I always use cure #1 for lox!



I will try CJP next time.


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

tropics said:


> I have a Salmon soaking right now that I cured for 3 days.



Very similar recipes, I found that you cannot go too cold for salmon smoking. This is why winter is my cold smoked salmon time to allow 50F smoking temp. my smoke generator only increases the smoker temperature by about 7-10 degrees. I am going to start using CJP just in case.


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## Winterrider (Oct 30, 2018)

Just went back and looked at Al's post on that. It looks excellent, will have to watch for a sale. Prices were ridiculous last time I looked.


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## SonnyE (Oct 30, 2018)

SmokinAl said:


> Yes I agree with the above. I always use cure #1 for lox!
> If anything it's for my own piece of mind.
> I also freeze the lox after I slice & vac pack it, for 7 days below -3 degrees F.
> This will kill any parasites in the fish.
> ...



I'd rather be safe than glue to a toilet...:eek:
LOL!
Very good point Al!


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

I don't understand this CJP thing...  It is not accepted by the FDA / USDA as a prevention for botulism...  You are kidding yourself...


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## SonnyE (Oct 30, 2018)

What is CJP?


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

CJP....   Celery Juice Powder....


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

SonnyE said:


> What is CJP?



CJP is Celery Juice Powder
Pros: natural product - no synthetic ingredients. Contains nitrates to cure meats.
Cons: as a naturally occurring product the quantity of nitrates varies from plant to plant. As a result you might be using too much or not enough to be effective.


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

daveomak said:


> I don't understand this CJP thing... It is not accepted by the FDA / USDA as a prevention for botulism... You are kidding yourself...



Hi Dave, you might have read my previous posts that my wife would not eat any food that has synthetic ingredients. This includes artificial flavors, colors, preservatives, etc. It's her lifestyle choice that I respect. Cure#1 is not singled out. I have to admit thought that if I smoke something for the holidays and take to our friends or relatives I will probably use cure#1 to ensure food safety.


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

Oleg....   Nitrates has absolutely NO effect on botulism in a quick cure method like you are using...


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## SonnyE (Oct 30, 2018)

OK, Thanks guys.

I'll stick with my Better Living through Chemistry. LOL!

But in all honesty, I never used anything before coming to SMF.com.
Just Salt and Pepper.
But I also used to over smoke everything. o_O

(The only thing that ever affected my health was my Meat and Tators affliction. Too much cholesterol plugged up my oil pump.)


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

* CURING INFORMATION BY NEPAS*
By pops6927, Mar 6, 2017 | 2.4K Views | Instructionals

Watch this Article
Great information by NEPAS:

CURES - Cures are used in sausage products for color and flavor development as well as retarding the development of bacteria in the low temperature environment of smoked meats.

Salt and sugar both cure meat by osmosis. In addition to drawing the water from the food, they dehydrate and kill the bacteria that make food spoil. In general, though, use of the word "cure" refers to processing the meat with either sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate.

The primary and most important reason to use cures is to prevent BOTULISM POISONING (Food poisoning). It is very important that any kind of meat or sausage that will be cooked and smoked at low temperature be cured. To trigger botulism poisoning, the requirements are quite simple - lack of oxygen, the presence of moisture, and temperatures in range of 40-140° F. When smoking meats, the heat and smoke eliminates the oxygen. The meats have moisture and are traditionally smoked and cooked in the low ranges of 90 to 185° F. As you can see, these are ideal conditions for food poisoning if you don't use cures. There are two types of commercially used cures.

Prague Powder #1

Also called Insta-Cure and Modern Cure. Cures are used to prevent meats from spoiling when being cooked or smoked at low temperatures (under 200 degrees F). This cure is 1 part sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 16 parts salt (93.75%) and are combined and crystallized to assure even distribution. As the meat temperate rises during processing, the sodium nitrite changes to nitric oxide and starts to ‘gas out’ at about 130 degrees F. After the smoking /cooking process is complete only about 10-20% of the original nitrite remains. As the product is stored and later reheated for consumption, the decline of nitrite continues. 4 ounces of Prague powder #1 is required to cure 100 lbs of meat. A more typical measurement for home use is 1 level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. Mix with cold water, then mix into meat like you would mix seasonings into meat.

Prague Powder #2

Used to dry-cure products. Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt. (1 oz. of sodium nitrite with .64 oz. of sodium nitrate to each lb. of salt.) It is primarily used in dry-curing Use with products that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration. This cure, which is sodium nitrate, acts like a time release, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide. This allows you to dry cure products that take much longer to cure. A cure with sodium nitrite would dissipate too quickly. Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat when mixing with meat. When using a cure in a brine solution, follow a recipe.


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

daveomak said:


> The primary and most important reason to use cures is to prevent BOTULISM POISONING (Food poisoning)



 in the United States, the concentration of nitrates and nitrites is generally limited to 200 ppm or lower. While the meat industry considers them irreplaceable because of their low cost and efficacy at maintaining color, botulism is an extremely rare disease (less than 1000 cases reported worldwide per year), and almost always associated with home preparations of food storing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curing_(food_preservation)#cite_note-“Botulism”-31

The risk of botulism is extremely small. I also smoke meat/fish the same day I buy it.


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

daveomak said:


> Oleg.... Nitrates has absolutely NO effect on botulism in a quick cure method like you are using...



I had no idea. Why are nitrates not effective when curing for a short period of time?


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## atomicsmoke (Oct 30, 2018)

Many here cold smoke salmon without cure (myself included). There are commecial outfits that smoke salmon without cure. Having said that...I am not getting in another argument about botulism.

Dave is right. Celery juice is useless in an environment where the temps are low and curing time is short. You need certain temps to promote bacteria that converts nitrate to nitrite. And time. Nitrite is the agent that cures the meat, not the nitrate.


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## SonnyE (Oct 30, 2018)

Oleg said:


> Hi Dave, you might have read my previous posts that my wife would not eat any food that has synthetic ingredients. This includes artificial flavors, colors, preservatives, etc. It's her lifestyle choice that I respect. Cure#1 is not singled out. I have to admit thought that if I smoke something for the holidays and take to our friends or relatives I will probably use cure#1 to ensure food safety.



That's tough, Oleg. Makes rather hard demands upon you.

I have a SIL who was highly skeptical about me using Prague Powder in my Jerky recipe, until I told him to look it up.
He did, and then he shut up.
What doesn't cook out and neutralize in process, gets neutralized by stomach acids.

I would also add that living healthy, or living a less healthy lifestyle, IMHO is a wash.
I have never talked to anybody who got out of life alive. o_O
But I also believe that people who worry the most, live the least.
That is why I choose to live until I die, and enjoy all my senses, especially my sense of taste.

If you want to use CJP (Celery Juice Powder), what about making your own? Use a juicer, then dehydrate your own to make the powder? ;)

I made my own Onion powder. And it is FAR superior to "store bought". ;)


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

This is the simple, accurate explanation I found...   

http://mattikaarts.com/blog/nitrates-and-nitrites/
Nitrates and Nitrites – what’s the difference?
When we talk about nitrites/nitrates, we are normally talking about Sodium Nitrite and Sodium Nitrate. There are other sources however (Potassium Nitrate, or Saltpetre) and we will talk about those later.
In short, quite a lot but also not that much. It is technically nitrITES that do the work. By “do the work” I mean give cured meat that lovely pink color, and sharp cured taste. Nitrite is also the delightful compound that helps prevent Cl. botulinum developing spores that gives us botulism poisoning – the most deadliest poisoning known to man.
So what do nitrATES do, and why do we use them? Well, consider nitrates to be a “slow release” form of nitrites. Bacteria in meat after a while will react with nitrate and create nitrITE. Since nitrite gets used up during the curing process, it is important to use some nitrates for meat curing that takes a while – like salami.
However, since it can take a while for the bacteria to start reacting with sodium nitrate, we should make sure that for meat curing, which can take many months, we use BOTH nitrite and nitrate to properly color the meat, give the tenderizing and taste effect, and also most importantly provide the required protection against botulism poisoning.



Hundreds of years ago, some butchers had access to salt that had natural nitrates in it...  When they cured meats that they hung in basements or caves at around 50 ish degrees, the nitrates were converted to nitrITES by a specific bacteria in the meat...  Their patrons did not get botulism and die...  They ended up being the only butchers that had a return clientele...  This was discovered about 100-200 years ago...  Then someone figured out it was the conversion to nitrites that was the important part of meat processing..  Nitrites do not happen with any regularity in nature...  It takes bacteria for the slow release on nitrites from nitrate...
At refrigeration temperatures we use, nitrate will not convert to nitrite because the bacteria are not active..   Long term curing at temps above 50 ish are necessary...  think of the European exotic meats slow cured for months to years


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

Chris Kresser
The Nitrate and Nitrite Myth: Another Reason Not To Fear Bacon
⦁   on October 5, 2012 by ⦁   Chris Kresser ⦁   884 comments
Facebook4.6k⦁   Tweet⦁   Pin56⦁   Google+
⦁   iStock.com/Arijuhani
⦁   Beyond just being loaded with “artery-clogging ⦁   saturated fat” and ⦁   sodium, bacon has been long considered unhealthy due to the use of nitrates and nitrites in the curing process. Many conventional doctors, and well-meaning friends and relatives, will say you’re basically asking for a ⦁   heart attack or ⦁   cancer by eating the food many Paleo enthusiasts lovingly refer to as “meat candy”.
⦁   The belief that nitrates and nitrates cause serious health problems has been entrenched in popular consciousness and media. Watch ⦁   this video clip to see Steven Colbert explain how the coming bacon shortage will prolong our lives thanks to reduced nitrates in our diets.
⦁   In fact, the study that originally connected nitrates with cancer risk and caused the scare in the first place has since been discredited after being subjected to a peer review. There have been major reviews of the scientific literature that found no link between nitrates or nitrites and human cancers, or even evidence to suggest that they may be carcinogenic. Further, recent research suggests that nitrates and nitrites may not only be harmless, they may be beneficial, especially for immunity and heart health. Confused yet? Let’s explore this issue further.
⦁   Find out why you shouldn’t be concerned about nitrates & nitrites in bacon. https://clicktotweet.com/UIY56 https://clicktotweet.com/UIY56
⦁   It may surprise you to learn that the vast majority of nitrate/nitrite exposure comes not from food, but from endogenous sources within the body. (⦁   1) In fact, nitrites are produced by your own body in greater amounts than can be obtained from food, and salivary nitrite accounts for 70-90% of our total nitrite exposure. In other words, your spit contains far more nitrites than anything you could ever eat.
⦁   When it comes to food, vegetables are the primary source of nitrites. On average, about 93% of nitrites we get from food come from vegetables. It may shock you to learn that one serving of arugula, two servings of butter lettuce, and four servings of celery or beets all have more nitrite than 467 hot dogs. (⦁   2) And your own saliva has more nitrites than all of them! So before you eliminate cured meats from your diet, you might want to address your celery intake. And try not to swallow so frequently.
⦁   All humor aside, there’s no reason to fear nitrites in your food, or saliva. Recent evidence suggests that nitrites are beneficial for immune and cardiovascular function; they are being studied as a potential treatment for hypertension, heart attacks, sickle cell and circulatory disorders. Even if nitrites were harmful, cured meats are not a significant source, as the USDA only allows 120 parts per million in hot dogs and bacon. Also, during the curing process, most of the nitrite forms nitric oxide, which binds to iron and gives hot dogs and bacon their characteristic pink color. Afterwards, the amount of nitrite left is only about 10 parts per million.
⦁   And if you think you can avoid nitrates and nitrites by eating so-called “nitrite- and nitrate-free” hot dogs and bacon, don’t be fooled. These products use “natural” sources of the same chemical like celery and beet juice and sea salt, and are no more free from nitrates and nitrites than standard cured meats. In fact, they may even contain more nitrates and nitrites when cured using “natural” preservatives.
⦁   It’s important to understand that neither nitrate nor nitrite accumulate in body. Ingested nitrate from food is converted into nitrite when it contacts our saliva, and of the nitrate we eat, 25% is converted into salivary nitrite, 20% converted into nitrite, and the rest is excreted in the urine within 5 hours of ingestion. (⦁   3) Any nitrate that is absorbed has a very short half-life, disappearing from our blood in under five minutes. (⦁   4) Some nitrite in our stomach reacts with gastric contents, forming nitric oxide which may have many beneficial effects. (⦁   5, ⦁   6) You can listen to my podcast “⦁   Does Red Meat Increase Your Risk of Death?” for more information on this topic.
⦁   In general, the bulk of the science suggests that nitrates and nitrites are not problematic and may even be beneficial to health. Critical reviews of the original evidence suggesting that nitrates/nitrites are carcinogenic reveals that in the absence of co-administration of a carcinogenic nitrosamine precursor, there is no evidence for carcinogenesis. (⦁   7) Newly published prospective studies show no association between estimated intake of nitrite and nitrite in the diet and stomach cancer. (⦁   8) Nitric oxide, formed by nitrite, has been shown to have vasodilator properties and may modulate platelet function in the human body, improving blood pressure and reducing heart attack risk. (⦁   9, ⦁   10, ⦁   11) Nitrates may also help boost the immune system and protect against pathogenic bacteria (⦁   12, ⦁   13, ⦁   14)
⦁   So what do we take from this? There’s no reason to fear nitrates and nitrites in food. No reason to buy nitrate-free, uncured bacon. No reason to strictly avoid cured meats, particularly those from high quality sources (though it may make sense to limit consumption of them for other reasons). In fact, because of concerns about ⦁   trichinosis from pork, it makes a lot more sense in my opinion to buy cured bacon and other pork products. I do.


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

* Prague Powder #1 vs Prague Powder #2*
By smokinhusker, Jan 2, 2013 | 47.2K Views | Articles

Watch this Article
Rick (NEPAS) posted this recently in another thread here. 

CURES - Cures are used in sausage products for color and flavor development as well as retarding the development of bacteria in
the low temperature environment of smoked meats.
Salt and sugar both cure meat by osmosis. In addition to drawing the water from the food, they dehydrate and kill the bacteria that make food spoil. In general, though, use of the word "cure" refers to processing the meat with either sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate.
The primary and most important reason to use cures is to prevent BOTULISM POISONING (Food poisoning). It is very important that any kind of meat or sausage that will be cooked and smoked at low temperature be cured. To trigger botulism poisoning, the requirements are quite simple - lack of oxygen, the presence of moisture, and temperatures in range of 40-140° F. When smoking meats, the heat and smoke eliminates the oxygen. The meats have moisture and are traditionally smoked and cooked in the low ranges of 90 to 185° F. As you can see, these are ideal conditions for food poisoning if you don't use cures. There are two types of commercially used cures.

Prague Powder #1
Also called Insta-Cure and Modern Cure. Cures are used to prevent meats from spoiling when being cooked or smoked at low temperatures (under 200 degrees F). This cure is 1 part sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 16 parts salt (93.75%) and are combined and crystallized to assure even distribution. As the meat temperate rises during processing, the sodium nitrite changes to nitric oxide and starts to ‘gas out’ at about 130 degrees F. After the smoking /cooking process is complete only about 10-20% of the original nitrite remains. As the product is stored and later reheated for consumption, the decline of nitrite continues. 4 ounces of Prague powder #1 is required to cure 100 lbs of meat. A more typical measurement for home use is 1 level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. Mix with cold water, then mix into meat like you would mix seasonings into meat.

Prague Powder #2
Used to dry-cure products. Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt.

(1 oz. of sodium nitrite with .64 oz. of sodium nitrate to each lb. of salt.)

It is primarily used in dry-curing Use with products that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration. This cure, which is sodium nitrate, acts like a time release, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide. This allows you to dry cure products that take much longer to cure. A cure with sodium nitrite would dissipate too quickly.
Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat when mixing with meat.
When using a cure in a brine solution, follow a recipe.

DO NOT MIX EITHER CURE #1 OR CURE #2 WITH MTQ


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

SonnyE said:


> If you want to use CJP (Celery Juice Powder), what about making your own?



Hi SonnyE, I do not think I would enjoy making my own CJP. It's time consuming and not something I like such a smoking meat! Also when I purchase it there is a recommendation for dosage. 
I am on the same page with you when it comes to healthy food. I am sure it's not bad for you but it's not worth the premium.


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## Oleg (Oct 30, 2018)

Dave, thank you for finding time to post the info. I am going to read it after work.


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

Any time....


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## SonnyE (Oct 30, 2018)

Oleg said:


> Hi SonnyE, I do not think I would enjoy making my own CJP. It's time consuming and not something I like such a smoking meat! Also when I purchase it there is a recommendation for dosage.
> I am on the same page with you when it comes to healthy food. I am sure it's not bad for you but it's not worth the premium.



Okey Dokey.
Just sounds like a rough row to hoe, to me Oleg.:rolleyes:

I was thinking more along the lines of personal quality control.
It sounded like you might possibly already be inclined that way.
Looking forward to other posts from you. ;)


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## daveomak (Oct 30, 2018)

How would you analyze, home made celery juice powder, for the amount of nitrates it has in it ????


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## Scott Eisenbraun (Oct 30, 2018)

We have been buying eggs and meat from a group of organic producers. The meat is flavorful, if not quite as tender as USDA Choice. That being said, I bought some buckboard bacon and a couple different sausage  types from them to try. I didn't realize they were Nitrite and Nitrate free. The bacon had a grey coloring and tasted nothing like any bacon I've eaten. We threw most of away. The so called Andouille sausage was even worse. It was dull and dirty tasting. 

I then educated my wife on nitrites and how they occur naturally in higher quantities in celery and certain other vegetables, than is allowed in commercial sausage. She is now happy to eat our delicious cured sausage and not worry about nitrites.


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## SonnyE (Oct 30, 2018)

daveomak said:


> How would you analyze, home made celery juice powder, for the amount of nitrates it has in it ????



Actually Dave, I wouldn't. I'm a Prague Powder user. So not apt to make CJP.
But I have made my own Onion Powder.... :D


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## Oleg (Oct 31, 2018)

Dave, here are my thoughts after reading your posts. The main idea is that Nitrates and Nitrites in moderate consumption are not bad for health. No arguments there. To me meat cure has three purposes: kills bacteria, preserves/adds nice color, changes taste. When it comes to color - CJP is also effective, I tried. Taste - not sure. Killing bacteria is the main question. In your previous posts you suggested 1/2" of meat per 24hrs. Super useful guideline. So, a piece that is 1" thick needs 2 days and piece that is 3" thick needs 6 days. This means that nitrates/nitrites are very quick to kill the bacteria. Just need to reach that area of meat. Am I missing something?


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## atomicsmoke (Oct 31, 2018)

Oleg said:


> Dave, here are my thoughts after reading your posts. The main idea is that Nitrates and Nitrites in moderate consumption are not bad for health. No arguments there. To me meat cure has three purposes: kills bacteria, preserves/adds nice color, changes taste. When it comes to color - CJP is also effective, I tried. Taste - not sure. Killing bacteria is the main question. In your previous posts you suggested 1/2" of meat per 24hrs. Super useful guideline. So, a piece that is 1" thick needs 2 days and piece that is 3" thick needs 6 days. This means that nitrates/nitrites are very quick to kill the bacteria. Just need to reach that area of meat. Am I missing something?


In whole muscle bacteria is only on the surface. The nitrite penetration is critical for curing: altering the taste, texture appearance of the meat. For salmon, which i am told does not change taste with cure, people use cure#1 to deal with surface bacteria. Thus you don"t need to observe the 1/2" day rule.


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## gmc2003 (Oct 31, 2018)

I'll go against the grain. I make a form of gravlox(minus burying it in the sand) w/o cure. It's basically made from flash frozen salmon, kosher or sea salt, brown sugar and dill. If I want to add a little smoke to the gravlox then I'll smoke it when the outside temp is in the 30's. I learned how to do this from my father who was taught from his parents who migrated here from Norway. It may not pass the SMF smell test, but nobody has died or gotten sick from it either. The shelf life of my gravlox is basically the same as fresh salmon, so I freeze what I'm not using right away.

Chris.


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## Bearcarver (Oct 31, 2018)

I go the easy way:
I don't Eat or serve any fish that has not been cooked first.

Raw fish is for Far Bigger Bears than myself!

Bear


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