# Vertical vs horzontal



## bekellog81 (Mar 27, 2006)

As You all may know I am currently using an modified ECB, I love this smoker, but and thinking about updating.  I am considering maybe buying a horisontal smoker, or maybe another verticle, or maybe building one.  Of course price is an issue.  I am not nessarily wanting to spend several hundred dollars.  I have 2 questions--1.  Does anyone make a affordable Horizontal that is worth the money?  2.  Is vertical or horisontal the way to go?  I NEED HELP!!!!!!  I want to try a brisket and want a smoker that is easier to get to the fire on than my modified ECB, but still does a good job.  Any opinions???


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## larry maddock (Mar 27, 2006)

yp be11,
in my opinion,
if not smoking for more than eight.
my char-broil vertical electric water smoker is GREAT.
you can get these at home depot for about 80 bucks.

you probably will need a 15 amp extension cord.
a good contracter grade 25' will goes 20 bucks.

i luv my "bullet style smoker''

but--- the gosms propane vertical at around 150 bucks ,seems to be very good also.

i am told you can adjust to and hold 320degrees in it.

you can roast stuff and not heat up the kitchen in summer.-----

to me -money is a consideration---
i hope this helps


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## roksmith (Mar 27, 2006)

I believe I would lean towards a Silver Smoker or something similar if you are looking to upgrade without going "hog wild".
If you are wanting to cook larger pieces of meat like a nice brisket, you have a bit more room with a horizontal model than an upright.
I'm also more of a traditionalist and believe that if you want the best possible smoke flavor, you want to burn wood.
Propane has a bit of a smell IMHO and, while it is certainly very convienient to set the temp and forget it, I always sort of enjoyed a sense of accomplishment when I was able to keep the old thermometer pegged right on 225 for hours on end.

anyways...my 2 cents....smoke em if ya got em!!

Rock


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## bekellog81 (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey rock, I was leaning towards a silver smoker(char-broil), but am not sure how good they really were?? I was wondering  if they last, how good of job they do?  My other concern is that i do not nessarly want a smoker that is so large that I "have" to smoke wood in.  I need one that will easily fire with charcoal.  What about the char-broil American deluxe smoker.  I know it is small , but I was wondering how good of a smoker it is?????  Does anyone have one????


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## scott in kc (Mar 27, 2006)

Another question as important as what do you want to cook, is how do you want to cook. 

If babysitting an offset and tending the fire every 30-60 mins is appealing to you, there are a number of good choices under $250. The CharBroil Bandera or Brinkmann Smoke King Deluxe are vertical offsets that offer high capacity for low $$$. Horizontal cookers in this price range offer less capacity, but will still cook a packer brisket and a fatty or two. If you have the time to spend cooking on an offset, they do produce the best Q.

If minimal input cooking is more your style, The Weber Smokey Mountain is hard to beat. Not tons of space but unattened burns of 8 hrs or more are no problem. Lots of these in use at contests and lots of winners too.

Electrics and propane cookers require some tending but simplify fuel hassles.


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## roksmith (Mar 27, 2006)

I personally can't vouch for the quality of any of the off-set models made today.
My old New Braunfels was made before they sold out to CharBroil, so I can't even vouch for them anymore simply because I haven't used one.

Most of the off set horizontals will work just fine with charcoal, in fact, I suggest charcoal for heat and just a bit of wood for flavor. I would not use regular charcoal ever though because of the extras stuff they use to press them into that shape.
I would suggest always using Lump Charcoal..I used Cowboy Charcoal simply because that was all that was available in my area.

When you are picking out a smoker, look at one setup to get a feel for the workmanship and look for one with the heaviest(thickest) steel you can find/afford.
The heavier the steel, the easier it will be to keep at a constant temp. Some of those thin walled smokers will jump or drop in temperature when the wind blows.


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## scott in kc (Mar 28, 2006)

What stuff is it that concerns you?


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## bekellog81 (Mar 28, 2006)

I went to my local Orschlens store last night and Saw a Brinkmann Smoke n Pit Horizontal smoker.  This one was is not like the one at wal-mart, this one is made of heavier metal than others I have seen.  I was wondering if it would be worth buying, what mods need to be done????
Any Advice?????


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## roksmith (Mar 28, 2006)

Here is the official list of ingredients from Kingsford.
Like Propane, this may not bother some, but for my money, I'll stick with Lump Charcoal or even better, good old wood.

List of "stuff"
Wood char (essentially the only part of it I would like to cook with)
Mineral char (soft coal)
Mineral carbon (old hard coal)
Limestone (cooking with rock?)
Starch (Binder)
Borax (used in small amounts to help briquettes release from the molds)
Sodium nitrate (Ignition aid)
Sawdust (Ignition aid)

Most of this stuff is there to make the product burn consistantly, and it certainly does, but if I'm taking the time to make some Q..I'll take the good stuff.

..again..just my 2 cents


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## scott in kc (Mar 28, 2006)

Lump burns too hot, too fast and too irregularly to be useful in a smoker. Ok for grilling, not for Q.

Attend a BBQ contest sometime, you'll see way more briq than lump. These guys don't compete because they make bad Q. Apparently to them (and me) briq is the good stuff.

Now there's 4 cents in the pot, anyone else?


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## scott in kc (Mar 28, 2006)

It looks like that pit already has the exhaust at grate level (or at least close) so that's one mod most horz need that you can skip.

The firegrate I'm sure would benefit from being raised, most pits need this.

Perhaps some sort of baffle/heat deflector at the exchange area between the firebox and cookchamber.
There are several recent threads on horz mods, in one of them someone (sorry can't remember who) tells how they made tuning plates for their horz to even the temps from end to end (great post).

An old blanket will protect a lighter gage pit like the SnP from heat loss in windy conditions.
In it's price range, I'd consider the SnP to be a good value.


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## y2kpitt (Mar 28, 2006)

In regards to the SnP...I say go for it, it is a great smoker and the mods that are needed are easy to do even without any real skills, here is a thread that highlights the baffling and exhuast mods I made.  http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=520


The lump vs. briquettes debate rages on, I guess Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll through a couple of pennies into the pot :)  Personally, I utilize lump in my horizontal smoker over briquettes because of the hotter burning temps of lump lets me put less in my firebox at one time.  The reason this is important, at least to me, is because I am still using the original ECB charcoal grate, this somewhat limits the air the flow in the firebox and it just seems to me that I get longer burning times with less fuel when using lump.  Scott is right on that lump is a less constant heat resource and requires more attention than the briquette, but for me stoking the fire is half the fun of smoking.  He is also right that it makes excellent grilling fuel, I had a couple of New York strips last night that we cooked over lump and they were awesome.


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## Dutch (Mar 28, 2006)

Ben, in regards to the Brinkmann SnP at Orschlens vs. the one at Wally's World go with the one at Orschlens. As you have noted, there is a difference in the construction. A lot of things that's available at Wal-mart are made that way- the thread on food savers is just an example.  This isn't meant to sound like a bashing of Wal-mart, in fact I food shop at the local Super Center quite often (they are my "go-to'" source for untrimmed packer briskets). It just "buyer beware" on appliances and the like.


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## bekellog81 (Mar 28, 2006)

Could someone please post some pictures on these mods on a smoker like the one that I am considering?? Or tell me where they are at?? Having trouble finding the post.  I am also sort of a visual learner.  If you get my drift.


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## Dutch (Mar 28, 2006)

We understand, Ben. Isn't Missouri also known as the "Show Me" State? :P :D


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## jlloyd99 (Mar 28, 2006)

It is in fact the Show Me state.  It's so much eaiser to "see" what someone is talking about opposed to trying to decipher what they are writing about.  Afterall pictures are worth a thousand words aren't they?


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## bekellog81 (Mar 29, 2006)

Well I did it, Lastnight I went and bought the Smoke 'n Pit pitmaster deluxe.  I can not wait til this weekend to try It out.  I will Keep everyone informed on how it goes.


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## bekellog81 (Mar 29, 2006)

The one problem that i see with my new purchase is that there is no real way to dump ashes out during cooking.  I have been brain storming on how to solve this.  Does any one have any ideas on how to  solve this problem??


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## roksmith (Mar 29, 2006)

Those thing usually have plenty of space for 12 hours or more without having to remove the ashes.
When I was using mine, I turned the grate(s) sideways so they were higher in the box and left more space below for ashes.
This gives plenty of space for ash..and if you really burn for an extended period of time, you can open the side door and scoop some out.
(Mine was the New Braunfels, but the design looks similar)
..also cooking with lump will result in less ash and allow for longer burns.

Rock


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## Dutch (Mar 29, 2006)

Ben, what is the size of the fire box? If it's not too large you might try putting a swallow HD aluminum foil pan under the grate- just not sure if the aluminum would burn away or not-


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## bekellog81 (Apr 3, 2006)

Well I broke in the new smoker this weekend.  I was pleased with the way that it worked.  Came up to temp quick, stayed steady, and recovered quick.  The only problem I had was getting the deer up to proper temp to finish.  However the wind did came up to about 30-40mph.  I have to think that the wind did have an effect.  Is there any thing that may help this problem???


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## Dutch (Apr 3, 2006)

Use a wind screen to block the wind from the Smoker.  Anything steady above 15 mph and I begin to worry. Even on a relatively warm day, steady winds blowing across the Smoker will rob you of heat.


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## scott in kc (Apr 5, 2006)

Ben, I cooked at the Boone County BBQ Contest (Columbia MO) in 2004, it was July 23, 24. It was cold (40's) cloudy and windy all friday evening and in the wee hours of saturday morning it began to rain (ended up raining 5+" that weekend). The weather was horrible for smoking, it really couldn't have been worse, at least not in July. 

The team behind us was cooking on 2 SnP's. They had theirs covered with packing blankets. Kept the wind off their cookers and they didn't curse the wind as bad as we did.  They turned their cookers so the wind was blowing against the stack end and did real well with them.

I think you're really going to like cooking on a offset.


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## bekellog81 (Apr 5, 2006)

Thanks for the advice Scott, I will try that.  I may have a chance this weekend.  I already think that this smoker is going to be alot better than my ECB!!!  I think that it is easier to cook on too.  I was suprised how jucy the meat turned out without the water pan!!!  Thanks again


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## jminion (Apr 11, 2006)

Inexpensive offset pits requirer more work than I'm willing to give it. If your budget is in the $200 range a WSM will in most cases cook as much food as one of these offsets once you figure in the hot spot next to the firebox. 

If you choose to go forward with the offset plan on making mods to make up for the bad design and quality of materials. The round fireboxes make ash control more difficult causing the ash to restrick air flow. Just not a fan of cheap offsets.
Jim


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## bekellog81 (May 4, 2006)

I just wanted to update everyone on my new smoker.  I have cooked many chickens, several pieces of deer, and some pork loin.  ALL of the food turned out really DELICIOUSl!!!!  I have not had any problem yet with my "INEXPENSIVE pit!!!"  The ash concern, that I had,  has not been much of a problem.  I may eventually need to mod the smoker, we will see!!!  I am sure that the WSM is a fine smoker, but one of the reasons that I wanted to get away from the Verticle smokers is the acess to the food on the second level.  When I used my ECB, everytime I lifted the lid I would loose alot of smoke and heat.  My Pitmaster does not seem to loose as much heat.  I feel that I am satisfied with my purchase, and will continue to enjoy using it, reguardless of the fact that it is a cheep or INEXPENSIVE smoker, as some would say!!!!!!!


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## ham's on fire (May 6, 2006)

Hey Ben, 

I just wanted to second what Scott in KC said. I spent most of this winter smoking in the wind and rain. I have a GOSM but I had to wrap it and face the back into the wind to keep the temps up. I used my heavy canvas elk bags just because they were handy.

Glad to hear you're enjoying that new smoker. My wife and I enjoy hearing about you and Lady J's cook'n adventures. 

HAM


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## jminion (May 6, 2006)

bekellog81
Sounds as if I may have caused you some hard feelings,not how i ment it. Once you have a chance to cook on an offset that is constructed with 1/4" steel and a better design you will understand my post. 
Before I purchased my first smoker I visited a competition and learned what I did not want to deal with. At this time I cook on WSMs, primo ceramics, Traeger mobile pellet cooker and a Klose mobile unit. I always look at design and materials. The heavier the steel or ceramics will hold heat in bad weather conditions, fire control and conistant pit temps makes the end product easier to achieve.
Jim


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## bekellog81 (Jun 6, 2006)

Thats Ok jminion, 
     No hard feelings I am sure that when I get  the chance to smoke with one of the better pits that I will understand.  Thanks for your advice.


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