# Dry & Crumbly Sausage



## danbono (Jun 25, 2014)

Hi All Once again my Italian sausage came out dry & crumbly..This was my 5-6 try at making sausage, only one time did,IT come right. I used a 4 lb boston butt plus trimmings from spare ribs.

The fat content seem about right,see pic also added some soy protein to the mix..Could it be I'm either under mixing or over mixing.This is getting real frustrating. I'm about ready to give up.

Thanks Dan













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__ danbono
__ Jun 25, 2014






PS Would  1 cup NFDM to 5lbs make a difference?


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## diggingdogfarm (Jun 25, 2014)

It looks pretty lean from here.
25% fat is the absolute minimum for a good sausage to my taste and IMHO and 30-35% would be better.
Proper mixing is also essential.


~Martin


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## danbono (Jun 25, 2014)

Hi Martin The pic is not a very good one. Believe me the fat content seem right to me. The meat and grinder was cold when grinding.

Proper mixing, can you explain. How do you when it is over or under mix.When mixing the meat it got nice and sticky, I thought that was enough mixing. I think I'm doing all the right things but the results don't show it.

Thanks Dan


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## daveomak (Jun 25, 2014)

Dan, afternoon.....   Some recipes call for grinding the fat through the smallest plate separate.... then grind the meat through the plate of your preference... then mix....  I think that disburses the fat better....  don't know for sure though....  The butts I have been getting lately have very little fat on them.....   I have to add brisket fat or what ever I have in the freezer....  or I add a pack of bacon ends and pieces to it...  
The picture does look a little thin on the fat, from where I'm sitting....


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## s24smoove (Jun 25, 2014)

12# shoulder

1.5oz whole fennel

.25oz crushed red pepper

3.5oz salt

10oz red wine, chianti, sangria, not cab sav


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## ak1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Looks like it needs more fat,


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## DanMcG (Jun 26, 2014)

What percent salt are you using? And you need to mix it till the meat becomes sticky. The meat in the pic does look lean, but might just be the pic.
Like Martin said 25-35% is ideal. next time you may want to separate the lean from the fat and weigh it just so you know what you're working with.

Do ya have a pic of the finished product? sliced


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## danbono (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi Salt was 1-1/2 Tablespoons for 5 lbs. The Boston butt was nicely marbled.The meat was sticky, before stuffing.

I think I'm doing everything right, but the results are not there.Next time add extra fat, and see what the outcome is.

Hope this pic helps? Will post another pic when the sausage is unfrozen,open up a link and take a pic.

Thanks Dan













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__ danbono
__ Jun 26, 2014


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## woodcutter (Jun 26, 2014)

If you smoke your sausage too hot it can get a funny textures. If the fat dripped out while you were smoking, it could cause crumbling sausage.


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## danbono (Jun 26, 2014)

Woodcutter said:


> If you smoke your sausage too hot it can get a funny textures. If the fat dripped out while you were smoking, it could cause crumbling sausage.


Hi The sausage was cooked in the oven, then into pasta sauce. Would the NFDM make a difference, in getting my sausage juicy

Thanks Dan


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## rgautheir20420 (Jun 26, 2014)

Since no body has addressed this yet, I'll bring it up. How was your meat chilled during the process? Before you grind you should be working with semi frozen meat. Once ground, if should be seasoned, mixed, and put back into the freezer for another 30 minutes or so. After that, stuff and cooked or frozen, whichever you please. Next time, try putting the meat into the freezer for 30 minutes at each point and see if that helps.


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## danbono (Jun 26, 2014)

rgautheir20420 said:


> Since no body has addressed this yet, I'll bring it up. How was your meat chilled during the process? Before you grind you should be working with semi frozen meat. Once ground, if should be seasoned, mixed, and put back into the freezer for another 30 minutes or so. After that, stuff and cooked or frozen, whichever you please. Next time, try putting the meat into the freezer for 30 minutes at each point and see if that helps.


Hi The meat and the grinder parts were both in the freezer before grinding..Before stuffing the meat was in the fride for 24 hrs.

Thanks Dan


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## mdboatbum (Jun 26, 2014)

DanBono said:


> Hi The sausage was cooked in the oven, then into pasta sauce. Would the NFDM make a difference, in getting my sausage juicy
> 
> Thanks Dan


In addition to the other reasons stated, fresh sausage is pretty prone to drying out and getting crumbly if:

A: It's stuffed a little too tightly

and

B: It's cooked at too high a temperature.

To answer your other question YES. I say again YES the nonfat dry milk will make a humongous difference in the moisture and texture. I use exactly what you said, 1 cup per 5lbs. Made all the difference in the world. Basically it widens the margin for error on fat content, mixing and cooking times/temps. It just makes it a good bit more difficult to screw up, which, for someone like me who isn't a sausage expert, is a wonderful thing.


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## danbono (Jun 26, 2014)

Mdboatbum said:


> In addition to the other reasons stated, fresh sausage is pretty prone to drying out and getting crumbly if:
> 
> A: It's stuffed a little too tightly
> 
> ...


Hi It seems like NFDM just may be the problem solver. I used Soy Protein, which was to make the sausage jucier, guess it didn't work.

Next time NFDM for sure. If that doesn't work then my stuffer is going on Craigs List.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Thanks Dan


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## rgautheir20420 (Jun 26, 2014)

DanBono said:


> If that doesn't work then my stuffer is going on Craigs List.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of stuffer you got? I'm in the market ;)

But seriously, hoping things workout. Good luck and let us know.


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## daveomak (Jun 26, 2014)

DanBono said:


> Hi The sausage was cooked in the oven, then into pasta sauce. Would the NFDM make a difference, in getting my sausage juicy
> Thanks Dan




What temp was the oven.....   

Dave


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## mdboatbum (Jun 26, 2014)

DanBono said:


> Hi It seems like NFDM just may be the problem solver. I used Soy Protein, which was to make the sausage jucier, guess it didn't work.
> 
> Next time NFDM for sure. If that doesn't work then my stuffer is going on Craigs List.
> 
> ...


I've never used soy protein, so I can't comment on that. Maybe you just didn't use enough? Try the NFDM.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jun 26, 2014)

NFDM will retain some moisture and help with smooth mouth feel but it's not magic , it's not going to overcome the fundamental issues that are leading to your dry crumbly sausage.

Good sausage can be made without NFDM.

I would increase the fat content, ensure that your're mixing the sausage meat well and not overcooking.

Most importantly, with proper mixing salt extracts soluble proteins from meat, as the sausage is carefully heated the protein matrix coagulates, the meat particles bind together, fat particles are surrounded and the texture of the sausage becomes firm. That's what makes a juicy sausage a juicy sausage. It's essential. No shortcut can make-up for it.

HTH

~Martin


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## mdboatbum (Jun 26, 2014)

DiggingDogFarm said:


> NFDM will retain some moisture and help with smooth mouth feel but it's not magic , *it's not going to overcome the fundamental issues that are leading to your dry crumbly sausage*.
> 
> Good sausage can be made without NFDM.
> 
> ...


All due respect but I disagree with the statement in bold. It's PRECISELY the fundamental issues that are overcome by adding the nonfat dry milk. Those fundamental issues, once resolved, do, in fact remove the need for a binder like nfdm. However, in the mean time, for those of us who just make a couple batches of sausage a year and don't have the experience to get it perfect every time, the nfdm makes up for minor to moderate mistakes in technique. The fundamental problem lies in improper mixing and or improper cooking. As I said in my earlier post, the nfdm will widen the margin for error by binding with the fat and preventing it from running out.

The guy wants to make good sausage, not win a sausage skills competition, so why not use what's commonly available to make it easier to obtain good sausage?


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## mdboatbum (Jun 26, 2014)

Furthermore, nfdm is almost all protein, so all you're really doing is augmenting the soluble proteins that salt and mixing coax out of the meat. Thus allowing for a lower salt, lower fat sausage if you want.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jun 26, 2014)

Mdboatbum said:


> ...I disagree...



That's perfectly fine with me I'm not necessarily looking for agreement. :biggrin:
Dan asked how to improve his sausage and I gave my answer, he and anyone else can take it or leave it, dry wieners ain't worth fighting over.
Why not just do it the right way and not have to buy expensive NFDM? This ain't rocket surgery! :icon_wink:


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## diggingdogfarm (Jun 26, 2014)

If that's what you like, more power too you.
We're all different. We all have different preferences and quality standards.
I don't recommend short-cuts like NFDM in sausage making the same way I don't recommend short-cuts like a crock-pot and a bottle of sauce when making pulled pork.
To each his own!



~Martin


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## s24smoove (Jun 26, 2014)

agree, 100%, but like you said, you are not looking for agreement and this is not rocket science,agree again. also, i think another posted stated that the problem may lie in grinding and mixing,i agree, also, i gave him a proven recipe, if he doesn;t grind the hell out of it, mixes it thoroughly and cooks the sausage properly, it will solve his prblem and be delicious., but like you said to each their own and mopar to ya',it's all good. personally, i think sausage should be meat, spices, caseing, no fillers, binders, maltodextrine, soy whatever, when one adds that stuff, you just made the stuff you buy at the store, i want better.


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## mdboatbum (Jun 26, 2014)

DiggingDogFarm said:


> That's perfectly fine with me I'm not necessarily looking for agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wasn't trying to be argumentative. You gave him your answer and I gave him a solution that worked for me. If we all agreed on everything life would be pretty boring :)


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## venture (Jun 27, 2014)

Seems like we are on the verge of becoming argumentative here.  Don't like that.

Nearly every post above has some merit, based on what I have learned.

Some of those posts come from people I consider to be among our "sausage gurus". I have great respect for their input!

The fat content, grind and mixing are crucial and will solve problems in most sausages.

Addition of soy protein or NFDM are common.  Not always necessary, but nice tools to have in the box?

The smoking temp and time are also in the mix big time?

Great time to experiment.  I have learned a lot more from my failures than from my victories.

Good luck and good smoking.


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## boykjo (Jun 27, 2014)

Some causes of grainy sausages.

1. Over mixed meat

2. Over cooked meat

3. Not enough fat content

4. Smear

5. Using binders

6. Using old frozen meat (older than 2 months)

7. Meat that is near its expiration date.

8. Sausage will turn grainy when cooked in stews, soups and sauces.

9. Over worked meat. (too many grinds)

10. Boil or par boiling

11. Too much water

Try to keep it simple. Find a fresh butt with a good thick fat cap. Grind once, season, no binders, stuff then grill


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## palladini (Jun 27, 2014)

boykjo said:


> Some causes of grainy sausages.
> 
> 1. Over mixed meat
> 
> ...


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## szynka (Jun 28, 2014)

I think what the OP has to do is to try to cook the sausage slower and not exceed 152 IT.  I have been to barbecues and events where folks would cook the $hit out out sausage or keep poking it with a fork draining it of juices.  And I must confess, at one time I was one of those folks until I learned better.


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## danbono (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi All Wow soo many replies and information.Sooo it could be many things causing my sausage to come out dry & crumbly?.

Looks like I have to change some things in my next try.I just don't what to change.

I would have loved to make Italian sausage just using salt/pepper/fennel, but it is not working out for me.

If it means anything the meat was grinded using a 3/8 plate. When I ate the sausage. it was more or less much smaller pieces. 

Next time I'm going to use the sausage, I will uncase a link and post a pic.

Thanks Dan


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## boykjo (Jun 28, 2014)

Are you using a grinder to stuff your sausage. If you are I would look at smear as the culprit while stuffing. A vertical stuffer would fix it

Joe


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## danbono (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi I'm using a Grizzly 5 lb stuffer.Tried one using grinder the was a major pain!!!

Thanks Dan


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## nozzleman (Jun 28, 2014)

I think you should concentrate on 2 main themes repeated here.

1. weigh the lean and fat separately and try and hit the 30-35% range on the fat, you will be surprised how much that really is.

2. by all means use the dry milk product, it absolutely will make a difference.

Like others said you still need to cook it right and have your seasonings right but those 2 things will carry you a long way.


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## DanMcG (Jun 28, 2014)

If you think you need to add NFDM then by all means try it, but it will be just a crutch and you might never get what fresh sausage is all about.

If that frozen link has thawed out and you could post a pic of it as is, and sliced, it could help.
Also I'd like to see what you're using for a recipe and how you're cooking it.
One more thing that came to mind is that the pic you posted looked to have ice crystals on it. If its in the freezer and not vac sealed it will dry out...period.


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## danbono (Jun 29, 2014)

DanMcG said:


> If you think you need to add NFDM then by all means try it, but it will be just a crutch and you might never get what fresh sausage is all about.
> 
> If that frozen link has thawed out and you could post a pic of it as is, and sliced, it could help.
> Also I'd like to see what you're using for a recipe and how you're cooking it.
> One more thing that came to mind is that the pic you posted looked to have ice crystals on it. If its in the freezer and not vac sealed it will dry out...period.


Hi When I'm going to cook the sausage again, I will uncase and take a pic.I would love to make fresh Italian sausage with just the meat and spices, but so far things are not going well.

The sausage was cooked in the oven at 350* for about 1 hr and then put into tomato sauce.

Recipe=5 lbs

1 1/2 TBS salt

1 1/2 TBS Ground black pepper

2 TBS Fennel

1 TBS Anise


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## szynka (Jun 29, 2014)

If I may add my two cents worth to the milk and soy discussion.  Nothing wrong with adding it to sausage so that it retains moisture.  I use it in small quantities in some smoked sausages, as a lot of the water in the meat tends to evaporate during a long smoking session.  But, many recipes call for way too much of that stuff, Rytek is one example.  Also, if you have a large amount of NFDM in the mix and are smoking to the finish, (that is, rather than poaching) the casing will be hard to peel.  But, I don't add either into fresh sausage, because if you add the appropriate amount of water and mix well, don't overcook or keep poking the sausage, there is no reason why even a leaner sausage will not be moist.


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## danbono (Jun 29, 2014)

Szynka said:


> If I may add my two cents worth to the milk and soy discussion.  Nothing wrong with adding it to sausage so that it retains moisture.  I use it in small quantities in some smoked sausages, as a lot of the water in the meat tends to evaporate during a long smoking session.  But, many recipes call for way too much of that stuff, Rytek is one example.  Also, if you have a large amount of NFDM in the mix and are smoking to the finish, (that is, rather than poaching) the casing will be hard to peel.  But, I don't add either into fresh sausage, because if you add the appropriate amount of water and mix well, don't overcook or keep poking the sausage, there is no reason why even a leaner sausage will not be moist.


Hi I think I have been doing ALL the right things. Still can't get moist sausage. Only happened one time of 6-7 tries. That is why I was thinking about using NFDM next time.

These are fresh Italian sausage, that will cooked on a grill, or a fry pan and put into pasta sauce.

Thanks Dan


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## DanMcG (Jun 29, 2014)

try pan frying them with low heat and see if they are better. 350 in the oven might be drying them out.


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## diggingdogfarm (Jun 29, 2014)

What DanMcG said...the sausage does look over-cooked...and the areas of separation from the casing are an indication of inadequate mixing or fat-out......the sausage should easily cling to the casing.













Dry   Crumbly Sausage.png



__ diggingdogfarm
__ Jun 29, 2014








~Martin


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## danbono (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi All Here are some pics of the sausage.Fat to meat ratio looks pretty good to me. Let me know what you think. 

Thanks Dan













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__ Jun 30, 2014


















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__ danbono
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__ danbono
__ Jun 30, 2014


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## DanMcG (Jun 30, 2014)

It looks good from here! I'm thinking it has to be the cooking process.


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## boykjo (Jul 1, 2014)

The left side looks wet and the right side looks dry. The meat on the right looks like its not binding or has too much binder and has soaked up the water. Grill it and see how it comes out. If its still dry and crumbly,omit the NFDM


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## danbono (Jul 1, 2014)

boykjo said:


> The left side looks wet and the right side looks dry. The meat on the right looks like its not binding or has too much binder and has soaked up the water. Grill it and see how it comes out. If its still dry and crumbly*,omit the NFDM*


Hi I didn't add any NFDM..I was thinking of using the NFDM next time.I did pan fry the sausage links in the pic,they were juicy before I added them to the pasta sauce, then they became dry.

Left side/right are you taking about the links or the  uncased meat?

Thanks Dan


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## boykjo (Jul 1, 2014)

Did you put the sausage in the hot pasta sauce and cook the sausage even more. Sausage should only be in sauce for about an hr to heat. If you leave it in there the fat will render and you will have dry crumbly sausage even though its in sauce


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## danbono (Jul 2, 2014)

Hi Yes the sausage was in the sauce for awhile.Will give it less time, in the sauce.

Thanks Dan


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## danbono (Jul 20, 2014)

Hi All A couple more sausage pics.How does the fat content look, to me it looks pretty good. Your thoughts on the fat content? ..They are now in the smoker, cooking hot & fast/250*

Thanks Dan













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__ danbono
__ Jul 20, 2014


















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__ danbono
__ Jul 20, 2014


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## cinnamonkc (Jul 20, 2014)

I agree with DiggingDog that it looks lean.


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## danbono (Jul 20, 2014)

Hi All Out of the smoker 160* the sausage was juicy but still the texture is way off..Way to crumbly . What do  next time? Maybe grind the pork with the finer plate, all these were coarse grinded.

Thanks Dan


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## boykjo (Jul 20, 2014)

Hey Dan. Grinding through a finer plate wont make a difference. I just made a small batch of hot dogs trying something different by making them 35% fat content and pureed the meat with a lot of water to make a fine paste and the hot dogs came out crumbly too. I would keep it simple next time, Buy a fresh shoulder with a good fat cap, course grind, season (no binder) and cure with little water, stuff then smoke..... With my hot dog test I am betting I added too much water to the meat and caused it to become crumbly.  I never have crumbly sausage but this time I bet excessive water was the culprit.

Joe


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## danbono (Jul 20, 2014)

Thanks Boykjo  Next time a good fat butt salt/pepper/fennel. I think the fat content looked good to me, noithing like adding some pork fat next time..
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Dan


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## szynka (Jul 20, 2014)

You know what?  Fresh Italian sausage, with a course grind, is supposed to be a bit crumbly and juicy.  If you want to make a rubbery sausage, then yes, grind it fine and mix it longer than necessary.  You will then have a spongy sausage that you just might like.  You can even take it a step further and emulsify it.


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## danbono (Jul 21, 2014)

Szynka said:


> You know what? * Fresh Italian sausage, with a course grind, is supposed to be a bit crumbly and juicy.*   If you want to make a rubbery sausage, then yes, grind it fine and mix it longer than necessary.  You will then have a spongy sausage that you just might like.  You can even take it a step further and emulsify it.


Hi I have to disagree. Been eating Italian Sausage all my life/70yrs.Never came across crumbly sausage like mine.

Dan


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## danbono (Jul 21, 2014)

DanBono said:


> Hi All Out of the smoker 160* the *sausage was juicy* but still the texture is way off..Way to crumbly . What do  next time? Maybe grind the pork with the finer plate, all these were coarse grinded.
> 
> Thanks Dan


Hi All

So "IF" the sausage was juicy when cooked/smoked right, the the fat content should be good?

Thanks Dan


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## rgautheir20420 (Jul 21, 2014)

Dan,

Can you put your recipe up? Also, next time you make links, take some pictures of your grind and your mixture just before stuffing. I wouldn't say 100% if the pork was juicy and taste good then it's enough fat, but that might be lower on the list of potential problems. I've begun making my own sausage, so I've been following your thread with great interest. I'm always looking for learning experience be it good or bad. 

I made a batch of andouille chicken sausage with 100% deboned deskinned chicken thighs last week. With just the meat and spices, no binder or liquids, the sausages were juicy and not crumbly. The thighs were about 30% fat to meat ratio. 

Good luck!


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## danbono (Jul 21, 2014)

Hi Recipe is in post #34. You can adjust to your liking.

Dan


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## keithintokyo (Jul 19, 2015)

I know it's been a year since this was first asked, but in case others are still following this (and you haven't sold off your equipment), I'll add my two cents. I'll try not to repeat the topics too much aside from putting my vote in for absolutely ensuring the meat and equipment are very cold. But one of the things that looked apparent to me from your pictures is that the meat doesn't look "furry". Perhaps not mixed enough. But to check, a couple of questions.

When you cook the sausage, are you finding that the fat is bubbling out from the meat and pooling inside the casing? That if the casing gets pierced you'd have a pool of fat in your pan? Because I had that problem early on, and the results were as you described. When I'd cook them on the grill I was getting fat pouring out causing flare ups, and leaving me with a dry, crumbly sausage.

I changed two things:

Made the meat (and everything around it) colder. My grinder was I the freezer, as was the meat. I grind the meat into a bowl set on ice. The meat was crunchy coming out.

Fat ratio was never an issue - I used a pork shoulder with visible fat on it and I've never had a problem.

And as for the "furry" look, I mixed the meat in my mixer with paddle attachment until it had a furry or fuzzy look to it - like a sticky paste. I know when I've done it right when the test patty releases only a drop of fat. If a pool of fat is coming out of my test patty, it's not properly bound to the meat and will produce a crumbly, dry texture. If the fat is in the pan, fit doesn't matter if you have the right fat ratio going in as you're leaving most of it in the pan!

I've never used any binders, etc. so can't speak to those, but can say I've not needed them. The sausages I make now are juicy, flavorful, and always requested  at my barbecues. 

And of course be sure not to overcook!


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## danbono (Aug 20, 2015)

> NFDM will retain some moisture and help with smooth mouth feel but it's not magic , it's not going to overcome the fundamental issues that are leading to your dry crumbly sausage.
> 
> Good sausage can be made without NFDM.
> 
> ...


Hi All Just an update on my making of sausage using NFDM. Seams the NFDM has worked it's magic, or I got real good at making sausage. Used 1 cup for 7 lbs. sausage came moist and not crumbly, also tasted real good.

Thanks Dan


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## boykjo (Aug 20, 2015)

Glad to hear Dan....... You'll be ready for the cooler weather as the sausage season near's. 

Joe


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