# To inject or not to inject (Brisket)



## masonman1345

OK!!!!!!!!!! Here's the deal. I have cooked briskets a lot, sometimes they are good and then well sometimes they [email protected]#$%. I was wondering about injecting. Heared of it, saw it on the net, but have never done it. Dont even know what injection to use. If someone can give me an idea, or that i'm wasteing my time i would appreciate it.

                Thank you


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## fife

I am sure someone will be by to help I have not as of yet so hope to hear some good ones also.


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## meateater

I jaccard mine and let them soak up my brine. For pork I inject right in the cryovac.


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## adiochiro3

I never inject or brine, and have never had a bad brisky.  What are your procedures?  Maybe some of our members can ID the hitch in your getalong....


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## masonman1345

I have no idea what meateater said, but all i do is put on a dry rub, put on smoker pit run around 250 till i reach about 160 IT. Then i wrap in foil until  IT reaches around 200  . Take off let rest. I usually wind up with a brisket that is dry and not very tender and the meat under the crust has no taste. What else can i try? i'm willing to try anything.


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## ak1

I've never injected a brisket. What you're doing sounds like what I do, but mine don't dry out.

The only thing I can think of is that perhaps your brisket doesn't have enough fat on it.


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## i is a moose

I've injected, rubbed, and brined briskets on several occasions, and there are no noteworthy tenderness differences between the two, moisture was negligibly better in the brined brisky, and the injected was okay.

I think your dryness issues stem from your temperature: 250 is simply too high in my opinion. 225 is the general consensus, 215 is what I do.

How much trimming of the fat do you do? I've recently stopped trimming my briskets altogether, and remove the excess fat as I carve, it works great.

How long do you let your rub sit on the meat? Overnight is the minimum, 2-3 days is ideal.

Do you "inspect" your purchases? An ideal brisket for smoking will have a great deal of flex.

What is your smoker make? If the heat source (coals, element, burner) is on the bottom, then it helps to flip the roast so the fat cap faces the heat for insulation (there is debate about this).

How long do you let your meat rest for? Alot of folks will say that it's best to wrap in foil after removing it, then wrap in towels, and store in a cooler for a couple hours. This works wonders, because it gives the meat a chance to rest, redistribute the juices, and finish everything off with an almost braise, making a juicier, more tender finished product.

Good luck!


masonman1345 said:


> I have no idea what meateater said, but all i do is put on a dry rub, put on smoker pit run around 250 till i reach about 160 IT. Then i wrap in foil until  IT reaches around 200  . Take off let rest. I usually wind up with a brisket that is dry and not very tender and the meat under the crust has no taste. What else can i try? i'm willing to try anything.


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## SmokinAl

What Moose said! I smoke mine at 210.


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## i is a moose

It's interesting what a difference a couple degrees makes, too! It seems trifling, but when the carving's done, 5-10 degrees can mean all the difference in the world.
 


SmokinAl said:


> What Moose said! I smoke mine at 210.


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## Bearcarver

I would agree with Al & Moose on most of what they said, with the temp I like being 225˚ to 230˚.

I do not inject or brine. I just coat briskets with Worcestershire (thick), and then cover well with a rub.

*NOTE:   If you inject your brisket, or if you insert a temp probe, or do anything to break the surface of your Brisket, you must get that piece of meat from 40˚ to 140˚ internal temp in no longer than 4 hours.*

*I do not inject for that reason. I do not insert a temp probe until my Brisket is in 225˚ heat for 3 hours, so I no longer have to worry about the danger zone.*

Bear


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## scarbelly

What Moose, Al, and Bear gave you was great advice.

What Meateter is talking about is using one of these


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## Bearcarver

Scarbelly said:


> What Moose, Al, and Bear gave you was great advice.
> 
> What Meateter is talking about is using one of these


Thanks Gary!

I thought "Jaccard" was some kind of booze!

I always called that thing in the picture, "One of those things that pokes a lot of needle holes in meat".

Dumb Bear


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## i is a moose

X20000!!!!!

Injected meat is considered as high a risk food as raw poultry!
 


Bearcarver said:


> *NOTE:   If you inject your brisket, or if you insert a temp probe, or do anything to break the surface of your Brisket, you must get that piece of meat from 40˚ to 140˚ internal temp in no longer than 4 hours.*
> 
> *I do not inject for that reason. I do not insert a temp probe until my Brisket is in 225˚ heat for 3 hours, so I no longer have to worry about the danger zone.*







Bearcarver said:


> Thanks Gary!
> 
> I thought "Jaccard" was some kind of booze!
> 
> I always called that thing in the picture, "One of those things that pokes a lot of needle holes in meat".
> 
> Dumb Bear




Not dumb at all, I always called them "needlers" until I got tired of people thinking I was talking about Halo.


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## beer-b-q

What Moose, Al, Bear, and Scarbelly said...

This string could go on forever adding names...


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## i is a moose

what Beer-b-q sai- oh heck!

Hurry up and post some pics already!!!!


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## masonman1345

OK!!!! not to inject i guess, sounds like u all know what your talking about. I have an 8' pit on trailer with a firebox. Temp may be my issue. I dont know what else i am doing different than you all.

Im in a competition this weekend and i need to do well in brisket to hang with the big dogs. Thank yall for all the input but more would be taken.


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## i is a moose

Good luck!

One thing that makes a surprising difference is the meat flexibility, the more the raw product moves, the looser the meat fibers are. When buying my brisket, I look primarily for marbling, and how much 'bend' it has. I also check the pack date, if I have a choice. I've found the better primals have been in cryovac for a few weeks, and have had a chance to "wet age" and tenderize.

again, good luck!


masonman1345 said:


> OK!!!! not to inject i guess, sounds like u all know what your talking about. I have an 8' pit on trailer with a firebox. Temp may be my issue. I dont know what else i am doing different than you all.
> 
> Im in a competition this weekend and i need to do well in brisket to hang with the big dogs. Thank yall for all the input but more would be taken.


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## ejhern

I have made briskets on the smoker but I could not it get it juicy until I did the following...
 

Trim the fat cap to 1/4 inch, inject the brisket (simple beef stock off the shelf(not cubes)) rub the outside with salt and pepper.

Cook on the smoker at 250-275 for 3 hours (usually 155-160 degrees), fat side up. Foil Wrap until 200 degrees with a meat probe...

The entire cook time is about 8-12 hours depending on weight..

It will be the best juiciest brisket you will ever have.  
Good Luck


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## matty1988tjc

I know this is an old thread but 200 is WAY too hot. 160 is even too hot. Most pit masters I believe prefer even as low as 130 for a medium rare cook. I suck at cooking brisket but I do know that 200 is way hot and the reason for your dry tasteless meat. Oh and keep in mind there is no such thing as too much smoke. Mesquite is my go to for a nice Texas BBQ brisket. Just make sure the fire is getting enough oxygen to avoid a lighter fluid taste from a starved fire.


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## Bearcarver

Matty, Welcome to SMF.

Please check in at Roll Call so you can be welcomed properly.

I don't think pitmasters pull Brisket at Rare or Medium---It would be too tough.

It should be smoked low & slow to about 185/190* for slicing, and 200* IT for pulling. IMO

Bear


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## ak1

Matty1988tjc said:


> I know this is an old thread but 200 is WAY too hot. 160 is even too hot. Most pit masters I believe prefer even as low as 130 for a medium rare cook. I suck at cooking brisket but I do know that 200 is way hot and the reason for your dry tasteless meat. Oh and keep in mind there is no such thing as too much smoke. Mesquite is my go to for a nice Texas BBQ brisket. Just make sure the fire is getting enough oxygen to avoid a lighter fluid taste from a starved fire.


Sorry! But I''m calling BS on this.


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## matty1988tjc

And you are absolutely correct. I feel like a jackwagon. The low temps would not even begin to break down the cologen (sp). anywhere between 190 and 205 is perfect as long as the meat is basted and not allowed to dry out, which is the biggest challenge running that high. I apologize for my ignorance, I truly feel stupid lol.


AK1 said:


> Sorry! But I''m calling BS on this.


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## damnthatsgood

Matty1988tjc said:


> I know this is an old thread but 200 is WAY too hot. 160 is even too hot. Most pit masters I believe prefer even as low as 130 for a medium rare cook. I suck at cooking brisket but I do know that 200 is way hot and the reason for your dry tasteless meat. Oh and keep in mind there is no such thing as too much smoke. Mesquite is my go to for a nice Texas BBQ brisket. Just make sure the fire is getting enough oxygen to avoid a lighter fluid taste from a starved fire.





Matty1988tjc said:


> And you are absolutely correct. I feel like a jackwagon. The low temps would not even begin to break down the cologen (sp). anywhere between 190 and 205 is perfect as long as the meat is basted and not allowed to dry out, which is the biggest challenge running that high. I apologize for my ignorance, I truly feel stupid lol.


Ha ha ha!!  Man, in a few years when you have hundreds of smokes behind you and everyone regards you as some kind of "zen bbq master", you're going to look back on this and laugh.

Also, just in case you haven't realized it yet, there IS a such thing as too much smoke.  And, you don't have to baste/mop/spritz/etc.  People who have been doing it forever can't tell any difference.  And in my smokes, I gave up spritzing because it just doesn't do anything. (I'm talking about briskets here)  Make sure you rest the meat for an hour or two after you smoke it, and it will reabsorb the juices.  I bring my briskets to 205*, and they are so moist it's unreal.


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## matty1988tjc

AK1 said:


> Sorry! But I''m calling BS on this.





Damnthatsgood said:


> Ha ha ha!!  Man, in a few years when you have hundreds of smokes behind you and everyone regards you as some kind of "zen bbq master", you're going to look back on this and laugh.
> 
> Also, just in case you haven't realized it yet, there IS a such thing as too much smoke.  And, you don't have to baste/mop/spritz/etc.  People who have been doing it forever can't tell any difference.  And in my smokes, I gave up spritzing because it just doesn't do anything. (I'm talking about briskets here)  Make sure you rest the meat for an hour or two after you smoke it, and it will reabsorb the juices.  I bring my briskets to 205*, and they are so moist it's unreal.


Lol. I know! And I am certainly going to take your advice. I usually do let it rest but maybe not long enough. I think my biggest problem is that I have been pulling at 185 at the highest. Never again! Lol


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## damnthatsgood

For sure go to at least 195*, man!  You don't even have to be afraid of going to 200*.  Once the probe goes in, and it feels almost like you're probing nothing at all, it's done.  If there is much resistance, it needs some more time.

I get my brisket through the stall.  Then I wrap it in foil and take it to about 203* before I pull it.  Then I wrap it in about three towels and let it sit for a couple hours.  Check it out:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/151099/dtg-smoke-5-brisket-w-pineapple-juice

This is just how I do it.  Don't think it's the only way!!  LOL, but I did learn how on this very website!


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## matty1988tjc

Damnthatsgood said:


> For sure go to at least 195*, man!  You don't even have to be afraid of going to 200*.  Once the probe goes in, and it feels almost like you're probing nothing at all, it's done.  If there is much resistance, it needs some more time.
> 
> I get my brisket through the stall.  Then I wrap it in foil and take it to about 203* before I pull it.  Then I wrap it in about three towels and let it sit for a couple hours.  Check it out:
> 
> http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/151099/dtg-smoke-5-brisket-w-pineapple-juice
> 
> This is just how I do it.  Don't think it's the only way!!  LOL, but I did learn how on this very website!


Man that looks like the perfect brisket. I just took mine out at 199. I ended up wrapping it at about 165 for time reasons. At least I am pretty sure wrapping it helped speed it up a little. I did end up injecting it this go round just to see what happens. Used some Stubbs Texas Steakhouse, I think its called. I put some in the foil when I wrapped it so I hope it helped with the moisture issue, as that seems to be my biggest struggle. I am pretty excited about this one, seeing as I pulled it at the right time for once.Gonna let it sit for an hour or so and get some potatoes baking. Ill definitely let you know my results.


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## ak1

Matty1988tjc said:


> Lol. I know! And I am certainly going to take your advice. I usually do let it rest but maybe not long enough. I think my biggest problem is that I have been pulling at 185 at the highest. Never again! Lol


Yeah, 185 is a bit on the low side.. It's amazing what a difference going to 195-205 even makes.


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## jay1340

Injecting is a waste of time, so is all that other fussing over a brisket. 

IT doesn't matter. But it's usually somewhere around 185*-210* for tender. It all depends on the pokey pokey test!!!


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## damnthatsgood

Jay1340 said:


> Injecting is a waste of time, so is all that other fussing over a brisket.
> 
> IT doesn't matter. But it's usually somewhere around 185*-210* for tender. It all depends on the pokey pokey test!!!


While this guy's advice is mostly true, remember that smokers are illegal where he lives....


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## jay1340

Damnthatsgood said:


> While this guy's advice is mostly true, remember that smokers are illegal where he lives....


It's only illegal if you get caught!


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## damnthatsgood

Jay1340 said:


> It's only illegal if you get caught!


Amen!


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## dish

I'm trying my first brisket today that I injected using bouillon cubes.  Have you tried them before?  It's 4.5lbs that I started at 10:30am and it's 5:00pm and IT is just 149*.  I will foil it at 165* with some more of the bouillon until 200* I'm thinking.


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## austinsmoke

I is a moose said:


> I've injected, rubbed, and brined briskets on several occasions, and there are no noteworthy tenderness differences between the two, moisture was negligibly better in the brined brisky, and the injected was okay.
> 
> I think your dryness issues stem from your temperature: 250 is simply too high in my opinion. 225 is the general consensus, 215 is what I do.
> How much trimming of the fat do you do? I've recently stopped trimming my briskets altogether, and remove the excess fat as I carve, it works great.
> How long do you let your rub sit on the meat? Overnight is the minimum, 2-3 days is ideal.
> Do you "inspect" your purchases? An ideal brisket for smoking will have a great deal of flex.
> What is your smoker make? If the heat source (coals, element, burner) is on the bottom, then it helps to flip the roast so the fat cap faces the heat for insulation (there is debate about this).
> How long do you let your meat rest for? Alot of folks will say that it's best to wrap in foil after removing it, then wrap in towels, and store in a cooler for a couple hours. This works wonders, because it gives the meat a chance to rest, redistribute the juices, and finish everything off with an almost braise, making a juicier, more tender finished product.
> 
> Good luck!


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## austinsmoke

Moose - first i heard about a few days in the fridge with rub...how long can you safely keep covered? Ihave only ever done overnight. I also agree that the injection process opens too many juice drains :-)


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## oldschoolbbq

Masonman , Beef needs S/CBP (Garlic and Onion - unsalted) . This my only Brisket Rub . I rub just before placing it in the Smoker . One hour later , I probe it and   (close the lid  until it gets to 200*F IMT )    , then I probe it several places for

tenderness... I'm not a Jaccard man... releases too much juice.  The foil IMHO , ruins the "Bark" . Wrap after the cook , and rest.

225*F is my average (+/- 10*F) . Use your Probes and monitor the progress .  Opening only lengthens the cook.













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__ oldschoolbbq
__ Aug 27, 2014





 . . .













FOOD I HAVE COOKED - ANYTHING 016.JPG



__ oldschoolbbq
__ Apr 7, 2013





 is fall apart tender . . .













The obligatory slice to the ring of red 001.JPG



__ oldschoolbbq
__ Oct 8, 2012





 and good Smoke ring . . .

Have fun and . . .


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## austinsmoke

Old School - I bought a 16 lb packer from Sams, and I am trying your S/CBP, garlic and onion powder. I am not smoking it until Sunday, but I put it on generously last night and figured it could age/ tenderize for a few days. It looks like it has turned the top 1/2 inch of the meat a grey...like it was chemically seared! I suppose this is just the salt penetrating the meat?? I have usually cooked it at 240, but I have not been happy with either tenderness or moisture...so I am going to try 220 +/- 10. Since it is such a big piece and I don't want a stall, I will probably foil at 160 until maybe 185 then unfoil it and re-crisp the bark until 200 then wrap in towels and into cooler for 2 hours before slicing. What do you guys think??


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## austinsmoke

Old School - I bought a 16 lb packer from Sams, and I am trying your S/CBP, garlic and onion powder. I am not smoking it until Sunday, but I put it on generously last night and figured it could age/ tenderize for a few days. It looks like it has turned the top 1/2 inch of the meat a grey...like it was chemically seared! I suppose this is just the salt penetrating the meat?? I have usually cooked it at 240, but I have not been happy with either tenderness or moisture...so I am going to try 220 +/- 10. Since it is such a big piece and I don't want a stall, I will probably foil at 160 until maybe 185 then unfoil it and re-crisp the bark until 200 then wrap in towels and into cooler for 2 hours before slicing. What do you think??


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## oldschoolbbq

I'm sorry , Austinsmoke . We had the kids this weekend and , well .
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Anyhow , how did the Brisky turn out 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  Did the Salt do anything ( been stated salt helps a Smoke Ring) 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   That's why I season just prior to Smoking. In fact ,I normally do it at the Smoker 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   How long did it take ?

Send Q-view for us to see . As always , have fun and . . .


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## papabob

This is very interesting since I usually insert my probe when I put my product into the smoker.  Am I doing this wrong?  I'm guessing that your reasoning has to do with bacteria growth below 140?  Could you explain a bit?  Thanks.  I've read all of your posts, even why your called Bearcarver!  Very enjoyable.  Thanks again!


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## Bearcarver

PapaBob said:


> This is very interesting since I usually insert my probe when I put my product into the smoker. Am I doing this wrong? I'm guessing that your reasoning has to do with bacteria growth below 140? Could you explain a bit? Thanks. I've read all of your posts, even why your called Bearcarver! Very enjoyable. Thanks again!


OK---I'll try:

If you break the seal of a hunk of meat, you have to treat it like ground meat, which is getting it from 40° to 140° IT (Danger Zone) in no longer than 4 hours, due to bacteria growth between 40° and 140°.

If you don't break the seal, you don't have to worry about getting it from 40° to 140° IT in 4 hours.

Also If you don't get it through that danger zone in 4 hours, taking it to high temps, like 205° IT for butts will kill some bacteria, but it won't kill the toxins formed by the bacteria while in the Danger Zone.

Hope that helps,

Bear


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## superdave

My 2 cents, I do inject and don't think you can ever have too much liquid.  I also read the arguments about what temperature to pull a brisket at and think of the following:   *"it's done when it's done."  *No one can prescribe an exact temperature to pull a brisket at.  One can make a target temperature and start testing.  Just like with ribs, a toothpick works great on a brisket.


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## medic92

The only time I ever injected a brisket I did it with seasoned beef broth and smoked it for eleven hours over hickory and cherry wood.  I ended up with smoked roast beef.  I haven't injected one since then and learned how to retain moisture rather than add it.  It's amazing how much you can learn just by searching a reading threads on here.


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## stickyfingers

IMO, it can only be better with injection!


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## gary s

Try one and see what you think, If you want to try to keep the flavor of the brisket, I would use beef broth.  Me personally I Do Not inject my briskets.

Gary


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## austinsmoke

Old School - talk about a delayed response, sorry I missed your reply post...so I thought the salt did help tenderize and smoke ring was good...not sure if that was the salt or not. it took 12 hours, plus 2 hrs rest. It was better then others I have done, but I am just not really happy with my Briskies yet. I haven't tried a more expensive cut. I have just been getting choice cuts from Sams/Costco...some guys here says the cut makes a difference and others say it doesn't...but stepping to the next cut is a significant investment...what do you think??

Tom

PS - cooking chuckie today...high of 32 here in North Carolina


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## bbqpit77

Im not a pro still on the learning curve just made about 15 brisket in one month and honestly just the first 2-3 tried to inject. Im not doing it anymore and all of briskets comes tender and juicy.


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## gary s

I don't inject my briskets, some do, I like the flavor as is and never have a dry brisket

Gary


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## glouie

Bearcarver said:


> OK---I'll try:
> 
> If you break the seal of a hunk of meat, you have to treat it like ground meat, which is getting it from 40° to 140° IT (Danger Zone) in no longer than 4 hours, due to bacteria growth between 40° and 140°.
> 
> If you don't break the seal, you don't have to worry about getting it from 40° to 140° IT in 4 hours.
> 
> Also If you don't get it through that danger zone in 4 hours, taking it to high temps, like 205° IT for butts will kill some bacteria, but it won't kill the toxins formed by the bacteria while in the Danger Zone.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> Bear


Thanks Bear!  This is the explanation i've been looking for.  I started smoking meats about a month ago. and  I've been planning on trying to  smoke a whole packer brisket sometime this month, but recently started reading the articles about the "Danger Zone" (4+ hr between 40-140 degrees).. and I couldn't figure out how that was possible on larger briskets taking 12-15 hrs to smoke.   this explains it, makes me feel much better..


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## bishgeo

I have always injected my meat a day or two befor cook never had a problem.


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