# UK Build Ideas



## gavlar

Hi everyone

This is my first posting here as I only joined yesterday. I am based in Surrey and have been smoking for 15 years. I have Brinkmann Pitmaster and vertical smoker. Both are not perfect but have served me well over the years.

I am looking to build an outdoor kitchen over the next few weeks and need some ideas and advice. I have looked at many US based websites and all the plans from brick built serve people with acres of land. Like many of us here in the UK, our gardens and small and we need to balance the garden with cooking area accordingly.

Of course I want the world on a stick, yes to a pizza oven but any over will be great, I want to smoke long and slow and a design that will support a long slow burn overnight would be great, Oh and a grill too.

I am thinking of block built which will be rendered.

I am really keen to see how you guys have built smokers here in the UK. All advice, pics and guidance is welcome.

Cheers

Gavlar


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## kc5tpy

Hello Gavlar.  Welcome to the family.

This is a tough one.  I can show you links to some FANTASTIC brick builds but these are HUGE!  by U.K. garden standards.  One is here in the U.K..  ALL the bells and whistles.  I'm afraid you will have to come up with a drawing that will fit your garden and budget and see what options we can offer.  Between the U.K. members and the U.S. members we can help you with ideas for the smoker but we need some idea of what you are thinking of.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## wade

Hi Galvar

What kind of dimensions are you looking for? A rough conceptual sketch would be a great help. If you are wanting to grill and cook low and slow are you willing to have a little bit of steel work fabricated to sit within the block work?


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## smokin monkey

Hi Gavlar, welcome to the "Family"

Not built a range myself, but there are plenty of people on here who have, and I am sure they will help you with your design.

Smokin Monkey [emoji]133660013031[/emoji]


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## gavlar

Thanks everyone for welcoming me to the group. I will draw up some rough design ideas over the next few days. However for now the dimensions will be around 2000mm long 900mm deep and around the standard height of a kitchen worktop. It will be against a timber fence so will need to think about protecting that.

I have thought about setting my pitmaster into the top to act as the grill but not too fussed. I have also read about setting a grill on a car Jack system to raise and lower the coals from the grill.

I think in reality the smoker only needs to be small as I would only be smoking a shoulder of pork and chicken at any one time, and this section still probably have to be higher than the worktop height.

So much to think about and such little space..


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## wade

Gavlar said:


> I think in reality the smoker only needs to be small as I would only be smoking a shoulder of pork and chicken at any one time


It sounds as if you intend to simply grill everything else !

Even the humble burger, chicken wing and banger are enhanced by a combination of direct and indirect cooking. You are still at the design stage and i think you would be missing a big opportunity by not enabling your whole grill area to double up as a kettle/smoker BBQ too.


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## gavlar

Not at all Wade

In fact this is exactly my reasoning for the post. In a way it is a collaborative design. I will post some pics of the area I am looking to build on shortly.

Curious to learn what types ob blocks are suitable for use here, breeze block, structural blocks or concrete ones? Do i need to use fire bricks too and where are the best places to buy fire bricks?


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## smokin monkey

Gavlar, ever thought of a Big Green Egg or similar? Can BBQ, Smoke the lot and not too big. Nice Marble top?

Other than that, have you thought of using Vermiculit as an insulator, I have used it in two ovens now, it's very light weight and easy to work, think its. 5-1 ration with cement. Lots of Pizza Oven Builders use it. Do a Google search.

100 Ltr bag on ebay about £21.00


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## smokewood

I have a Brinkmann stick burner, obviously it is not built in but it does everything.  For instance I use the firebox as a grill, and also to contain my cold smoke generator when cold smoking in the main oven space, and when I want to hot smoke I use the whole thing. As space seems to be an issue  If you managed to design something on the same principle, that also managed to incorporate a pizza oven somewhere into the system, you would have it all.  You have not mentioned what your budget is for your project? 

Oh by the way welcome to the forum.


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## kc5tpy

Hello Gavlar.  Yeah.  These are some things we can't help you decide.  Do you want to impress the neighbours?  Would you like to save money?  Have you just made up your mind that a brick/block build is what you want and the price be damned?  None of these things are a bad thing but they are things we can REALLY help with.  When you start talking a totally unprotected outdoor kitchen you are talking brick/block design and stone counter tops, high quality stainless steel fittings such as taps.  TOTALLY sanitising the ENTIRE kitchen before starting EVERY smoke.  A lot of money and work.  If you are good with that then go for your dream!  Below is a thread by one of our members.  Now keep in mind he works in the Middle East as a close security body guard for VERY rich people.  He paid to have this built.  Close security means he MAY have to take a bullet.  I have NO reason to believe he would lie to me ( maybe I am wrong, have been before ).  My point being money is NOT much of an issue.  I post this link to show you what you could build.  He bought the pizza oven and incorporated it into his build.  Go online and price a wood fired pizza oven.

These are things you have to decide.  We will get you all the help we can once you choose a direction.  Help us to help you.  There are other options but it must be your choice.  Keep Smokin!

Danny

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/166244/my-brick-smoker-build


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## smokewood

Absolutely, I remember that build, it's the dogs do-dahs, and definitely on the upper limits of a budget.


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## gavlar

I checked out that build prior to my posting. Agreed its a big beast...Yeah I know jealousy.

Anyway I will post some pics of the area and rough sketches of what I hope to look like..I am now thinking of setting my existing pitmaster into the block unit with heat coming from the main brick fire through the offset vent.


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Give us your thoughts and we will help were we can  I will also rattle cages if I think someone in the States can help.  No matter your plans we can ( and want to ) help make this happen for you.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gavlar

Gavlar BBQ.bmp



__ gavlar
__ Jun 10, 2015







Hi Guys



Well i have finally got round to modelling the cooking area i hope to build. As you can see i hope to build the fire box to the left hand side with the fire at the bottom left. I have put a grey rectangle to act as the door. Above that i hope to have some kind of method of diverting the heat into the horizontal bbq unit which will probably be my Brinkmann pitmaster. Finally the top grey door i was thinking of having as the entrance to the pizza oven but not sure how it would work.



As mentioned before this is just a rough sketch and open to any thoughts and comments. the length of the space is about 2M and i would want the depth to be no more that a standard kitchin worktop (600mm)



Cheers all



Gavlar


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## gavlar

Gavlar BBQ.bmp



__ gavlar
__ Jun 10, 2015






Hi Guys

Well i have finally got round to modelling the cooking area i hope to build. As you can see i hope to build the fire box to the left hand side with the fire at the bottom left. I have put a grey rectangle to act as the door. Above that i hope to have some kind of method of diverting the heat into the horizontal bbq unit which will probably be my Brinkmann pitmaster. Finally the top grey door i was thinking of having as the entrance to the pizza oven but not sure how it would work.

As mentioned before this is just a rough sketch and open to any thoughts and comments. the length of the space is about 2M and i would want the depth to be no more that a standard kitchin worktop (600mm)

Cheers all

Gavlar


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## kc5tpy

Hi Gavlar.  Just my opinion here.  You are trying to design a "one size fits all" unit.  In my limited experience, that means it does multiple tasks, half assed.  So it WORKS as a smoker, well maybe.  It works a pizza oven sort of.  So you have a pizza oven that is poor and a smoker that is poor.  Don't mean to rain on your parade.  Maybe there is a design out there that would work but not what I see here.  A pizza oven needs to be AT LEAST 400+ degrees so the distance from fire to oven is too much.  So the problem becomes how do we get CRAZY heat to the pizza oven and then get low and slow heat to the smoker?  Obviously not at the same time but can the 2 objectives be built into the same unit?  Heat control is gonna be a Bear! with your idea. You got me thinking.  Not that I know all.  Far from it!  Just rolling it around in my little brain.  I know it may sound simple, but once built you may find many problems.  You want to do it right the first time.  Will get back to you.

Danny


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## gavlar

Thanks Danny

It is only a sketch and as I said originally. I want the best of everything. My true love is long and slow and have been happy with my kit for many years.

I am now re landscaping my garden and want a contemporary liking outdoor cooking area. I am happy to discard my brinkmann and go all block and fire bricks if it will provide more control and consistent temperatures.

Naturally grilling is a must to please those that want the humble sausage.

I am seriously open to all ideas I am just restricted by the space I have allocated.

Cheers

Gavlar


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## wade

For the Pizza oven you really need the fire inside the oven itself in order to get you the top heat that is required. This will allow you to separate the two functions but have them built into the same structure. Maybe something like this...

 













Smoker and Pizza.JPG



__ wade
__ Jun 11, 2015






The fire in the Pizza oven only heats the oven and the firebox for the smoker only heats the smoker.

As Danny points out, if you try to combine the two together then you will probably end up with something that is not very good at doing either.


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Yeah Wade!  I was thinking along those lines.  Could we make the pizza oven also the firebox for the smoker??  But you would need to be able to close off the smoker when only using the oven.  Well!  Maybe the smoker could act as part of the exhaust for the oven??  But then you would still need some sort of "damper" between oven and smoker because of the volume of the smoker being used as an exhaust.  The oven would never reach 400-500 degrees with that much exhaust.  Yes the pizza oven may be about knee high, which is not "ideal" but you see where I am going here?  Then we are also talking brick.  I have almost no experience using a brick pit and no experience building one.  Seems to me as with any smoker you need to get the brick up to temp.  Does that take a lot of extra wood??  Should we be thinking of gas for fuel and a few coals for taste?  I'll give Wes a PM and see if he can help.  He's the brick man!  Obviously, you can not grill and smoke in the same unit at the same time, but the grilling thing is an easy fix.  Just add a cleanout door on the smoker and put coals in there for grilling.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## wade

The problem with trying to use the pizza oven as the fire box is the oven design. Usually the fire is at the back and the flu is towards the front. There is probably a way that you could get the oven to double up as the smoker firebox but I think it would be quite a Heath Robinson affair. You would probably need to have a vent in one side of the oven for when it is used as a firebox and the flue at the top for when it is a pizza oven. You would need to be able to open and close either depending on which you were using. Someone on here will probably have done it though.


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Sorry Gavlar.  We are not ignoring you.  We are bouncing ideas as to how to help you.

I'm with you Wade.  I have racked my tiny brain and I don't see how he could make it all in one unit.  I thought MAYBE we had a hope but when I thought it through, it just didn't work.

Gavlar; you are gonna have to make it 2 separate  units.  I see no other option.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## smokewood

I am with the boys on this one, because of the temperatures involved I think if you use a damper (depending on how it is attached) it it's going to warp and distort which will cause it to become inefficient, the hinge mechanism is going to rust and it could be problematic in the future to move it from one setting to the other.  There is also the fact that is might not work at all as Danny has mentioned.  So you have spent a lot of time, money and effort that is as much use as a lighthouse in the desert !

You could have 2 fireboxes as Wade has mentioned if you really want to combine the two and have something a bit different, or why not keep the design simple and have a conventional pizza oven where the fire is at the rear of the pizza oven, which is a tried and tested design that has been used over many years and then have a separate smoker/BBQ with a firebox which is also a tried and tested design. I am a big fan of the KISS principle,  why complicate things when there is no need.


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## smokin monkey

Hi Gavlar, I would go with Wade's idea. Fire in the Pizza Oven, and a fire box below Pizza oven to feed Smoker.

Smokin Monkey


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## gavlar

All

Thanks so much for the collaborative input. Thinking out load i am so pleased i made my original posting. Perhaps wanting the world on a stick is not realistic, If it was we would all have one. Perhaps its best to dump the idea of a pizza oven for now.

Moving to the main reason for all of this is to achieve the best I can for brilliant temp control for that perfect long and slow smoke. Happy to keep the Brinkmann or just discard it i really dont mind. I do appreciate your thoughts and input so far, but as mentioned earlier, it is best to get ir right now rather than spending time money and effort on something that just doesn't fit the bill.

Cheers all..what is the next step

Gavlar


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## kc5tpy

Is a tough one guys.  I just don't see the two working together.  Racked my poor little brain but no solutions.come to mind.

Dammy

Dammy??  Who the HE** is Dammy?  I can type just fine!  I have a dislexic keyboard!  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Danny


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## wes w

Good evening Gavlar,  well, its close to morning for you.  :-)

It would be helpful to know how much area you have to work with.   You can build a brick smoker and a oven on a very small footprint.  If my smoker were stand alone, it would have a foot print of about 6ft x 6ft.    I am in the process of building a oven.   When complete I'll be doing a rundown on the brick smoker page, but here is a picture of it almost complete.  The foot print on the oven is 7ft x 7ft.  Not a lot of area is needed to get both.   

Looking at your drawing, by making it a little wider you can have a brick smoker.     

When you get a chance check out the "brick smoker" page here at SMF.   I do have a how to on brick smoker.  If you can't find it, I'll be glad to get you a link.    I am by no means an expert, but I do have a working knowledge of brickwork.   

The oven I'm working on is built for the long haul.  Its built to hold heat for making bread.  No shortcuts on this build.  I built if for high heat for awesome  pizza and  to hold heat for bread the next day.   As stated, once complete I plan to give a how to on the brick smoker page.

It looks big, but it sit on a 7ft x 7ft slab.   

If you have questions please ask.   There are ton of folks here willing to help.













IMG_20150612_192110517.jpg



__ wes w
__ Jun 12, 2015






Here is a picture of the smoker.  These two sit in a corner to each other.  Hopefully next year a can finally build the deck area.  The oven is built to  where the deck will be, thats why its so high.

View media item 165648
Its not quite that clean after 4 yrs of use.   

If you have questions please ask.  

Hope you have a great week-end!

Wes


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## kc5tpy

Thanks Wes!  Well there ya go Gavlar.  I think separate units are the way to go also.  A 14-15 feet footprint ia not that big.

Danny


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## smokin monkey

Hi Gavlar, I think this is exactly what you are trying to build.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wood-Fired-Outdoor-Pizza-Oven-bbq-/141671277965?hash=item20fc44258d

Nice looking "all in one" bit of kit.

Smokin Monkey.


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## wade

Yes that almost looks like the ultimate convertable


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## gavlar

That looks fantastic. The only problem is the price....


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## smokewood

Wes's Smoker/Oven is awesome, the trouble is I think you would be tied up with planning regulation for the next 10 years in the UK.


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## wes w

Evening.   I do live in the mountains.   I'm by no means a city dweller.     To be legal, I probably should have gotten a permit to build this, but, its kinda like, don't ask don't tell thing.  No one in my neighbor hood is going to report me because I often do neighborhood smokes or pizza parties.   The plus side is the next morning I can bake bread once the temp has cooled a bit.

Let me know if I can help.   

Why would building a smoker or oven be a big deal in the UK?.  I'm just curious.  

Best of luck my friend.  From a wood fired oven or smoker  you get a flavor that can not be matched by none.   Fire adds a flavor that  nothing can match.  

Wes


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## wes w

Danny, how in the hell  did you get 127 points?  LMFAO!!     Damn!  :-)


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## smokin monkey

Wes W said:


> Danny, how in the hell  did you get 127 points?  LMFAO!!     Damn!  :-)



He gets a point for every birthday he's had,!


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## kc5tpy

Hello Wes.  Well you would think it is my winning personality and my VAST knowledge on smoking meat.  The real truth is BRIBERY!  It has cost me a small fortune!  I have had to send the wife back to work and even had to get a second job.

Building something in your yard here in the U.K. has several pitfalls.  AND your neighbor will turn you in.  I am not saying anything against U.K. folks but it's just how it is.  U.K. folks "follow the rules" where U.S. folks figure if it ain,t hurting me I don't give a sh**.  When you live in a different country you have to play by their rules.  You also have no "out of the city limits" option here.  Your neighbor can even get a tree protection order for a tree on your property.  That stops you from cutting down a tree on YOUR property.

Thanks for your advice Wes.  When talking brick builds I have NO clue.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## wes w

I'm always more then willing to help.  If I can't give a good advice I'll tell you.   

I live kinda in the middle of nowhere.   A little hick town in the mountains.    We won't talk government because ours sucks right now....

I'm a simple person who trust anyone until proven different.

LOL,  I just want to know how you get the wife to work so I can stay home!!  :-)   My wife is the big bread winner.   She makes way more then I do and she has retirement.   After 30 yrs, I just hope she doesn't kick me out.  :-)   

If I can be of help, just shot me a PM.   I think its so awesome that people of different countries can come together for a common cause, to eat awesome smoked food and just be friends.  Thank you sir


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## smokewood

I agree, it's great that people from all over the world can come together with a common goal.  I would love to live in the middle of nowhere, my kinda lifestyle, out of interest what's the name of your town Wes.


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## kc5tpy

Hello James.  I do miss Tx..  I owned 11 acres.  Had wild deer, hogs, passing through and a resident roadrunner and a big ole owl who used to eye up the ex-wife's little lap dog when she went out at night.  Of course we also had the occasional rattlesnake and you have not lived until a coyote starts howling just outside your bedroom window at 3-4am Sunday morning.  Where's my gun????  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   Of course that was never a REAL question.  The loaded 357 magnum was under my pillow and the loaded 12 bore hung above the bed.  The rest were unloaded and in the gun cabinet.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   My nearest "permanent" neighbour was almost a mile away.  10-12 mile round trip to the grocery store and a 100 mile round trip to work and back.

Yes.  It is great that we all can come together and help each other..  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gavlar

Thanks everyone for you feedback and ideas, it's been great to be part of this community and I hope that when my bbq/smoker is built it is the very best it can be.

The area allocated is 3ft x 8ft very approximately. I think ready what has been said on here I will park the idea of a pizza oven and build a rendered block unit which will have the smoker and grill.

I am completely open to suggestions but I just cannot go higher than 6ft high as generally the UK garden fences are about that height.

For me the objective of the design and materials is to have excellent control of burn and as such temperature.

I am all ears to your thoughts particularly on materials and the design of the smoker unit and grill and what I should consider so as not to make mistakes.

As always thanks for your input. For info the build will start in about three weeks.

Cheers

Gavlar


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## kc5tpy

Hello.  Gavlar; it may slow your build slightly but I would suggest maybe post a drawing of the next section before you start building.  Just to have a chance to get suggestions BEFORE you spend the money on the actual build.  I have ZERO experience with brick smokers but many of us understand air flow and such things from experience building steel smokers.  I am sure Wes will also be available to add his suggestions.  I know you don't want to spend 8-10 hrs. laying blocks just to have someone tell you the next day that what you did won't work.  Just a thought.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## wes w

Gaviar, if you haven't yet,  take a look at the brick smoker page.   Lots of great folks there.    Between all of us, we can help you in anyway we can.    Folks from around the world who love making fire!  :-)

I'll be more the willing to help anyway I can.


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## gavlar

Hi Guys

Ok so the pizza idea has been thrown by the wayside and I am looking for the best i can for a smoker and grill. I still want a block built unit as i would like storage and a worktop of sorts outdoors. I guess I would like to know what sort of blocks should I use for the build. As I mentioned before I would like the block work rendered so heat is a consideration here also.

Do i need to build two skins of masonry, one blocks and the other kiln bricks and heat resistant insulation between the two.

Any ideas on materials is much appreciated.

Thanks all

Gav


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## kc5tpy

Hi Gavlar.  I would take Wes's advice and post these questions on the Brick Smokers page.  I just can't help here and I don't know who else in the our Group who could.

Danny


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## wes w

Gavlar said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Ok so the pizza idea has been thrown by the wayside and I am looking for the best i can for a smoker and grill. I still want a block built unit as i would like storage and a worktop of sorts outdoors. I guess I would like to know what sort of blocks should I use for the build. As I mentioned before I would like the block work rendered so heat is a consideration here also.
> 
> Do i need to build two skins of masonry, one blocks and the other kiln bricks and heat resistant insulation between the two.
> 
> Any ideas on materials is much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> Gav


Good morning!

First off, if your just looking for a pizza oven just for pizza, you can make them much smaller then mine.   You can make them as small as 3 ft.x3 ft.   They heat up fast and cool down quick.   The only reason you would need something as heavy as what I built is for making bread.  It is designed to store heat over long periods of time.   Don't give up on an idea!    I saved up for 3 years to be able to build our oven.   

Gav,  I would use the double wall idea.   Reason being.   Block love to soak up moisture, so they wouldn't be ideal for the inside of the smoker, but they are great at making it stronger.   Firebrick or kiln brick do not soak up moisture because they are so dense.   They hold heat very well.  After all, its what there designed to do.  

Yes, I would leave a space between the two.   I used fiberglass insulation, because at the time I was unaware of vermiculite.   This space will give you the dead air space to let the insulation work.    I left 2in. between the two on my build.

Depending on space and funds, you wouldn't have to lay a face brick, but you'd need to lay it in a way that no water can get in.    

I feel firebrick are very important in a smoker.   There is some debate as to what to lay the firebrick with.   Being a smoker will very rarely see temps over 300F,  I used type S mortar mixed 2 parts sand, 1 part mortar.  A very rich mix that holds really well.   I did use fireclay on my oven simply because the vault of the oven reaches temps of over 1000F.

I hope this helps.   I'm aware firebrick can be costly, but over the long haul, you can't go wrong.


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## smokewood

Evening Gavlar

Hope you are OK.  Will you be attending the Smoking weekend, more details can be found here if you have not seen the threads http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/221028/important-information-please-read

Can you give us an answer either way as we need to finalise numbers and all that.

REgards

Smokewood


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## gavlar

Hi all

Here are my drawings so far for this smoker build. I thought i would add a carjack bolted to a plinth below the grill area to raise and lower the coals towards the grill surface as required. I have added a gap between the smoker and the grill area, but having read the posts on here I am not sure if this is a good idea.

Love to hear your thoughts.

Gavlar













Gavlar BBQ Smoker.jpg



__ gavlar
__ Jul 28, 2015


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## gavlar

Hey Smokewood

Sorry for such the late response. Unfortunately i cannot be there but will be looking out for the photos of the weekend.

Thanks for the invite and hopefully next time..

Gavlar


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## kc5tpy

Hi Gav. Wes is THE MAN!   If I were you I would definitely  consider his advice.  Just my humble opinion.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gavlar

Hi Gang

I know its been ages but i have now booked the builders in to start working on the garden landscaping which includes to cooking area. I have taken your advice and decided against the combined pizza oven idea.

My focus now is on a vertical smoker and horizontal grill, both made of rendered concrete blockwork. I will insulate with either firebricks or vermiculit concrete mix.

My  questions are:

Where can i get low cost doors for the smoker

Should i line my grill with firebricks or vermiculit on the floor and walls

Should I recycle the steel lid of my Brinkman Pitmaster as a lid/cover for the horizontal grill part of the new build

What method should I use to raise and lower the grill from the heat source - I did think of a car jack to raise the heat source from below to a static grill, may look nicer than the argentinian style with the wheel on the side raising the grill itself.

All suggestions and comments welcome. The build starts in a few weeks and will post all pics and updates.

Thanks all in advance

Gavlar


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## jockaneezer

Hi Gav, I built a cobb pizza oven and couldn't run to the cost of fire bricks so I got my hands on some lining bricks from electrical storage heaters for the hearth. The oven is 7 years old now and the hearth is as good as the day it went in, the clay of the dome is starting to look a bit suspect now though. We've had hearth temps in excess of 400*C in it. I'm thinking of a brick replacement in the future and bought a book by Tom Jaine called Build a Wood Fired Oven for Bread and Pizza and although I wouldn't follow his design, there is info in there about substituting normal fired clay bricks instead of refractory ones and a mix for a lime based mortar instead of proprierty fireclay cement, which are the two most expensive parts of the build and are well within the temp range for a smoker.

Graeme.


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## gavlar

Graeme

Thanks for the reply mate, i will look the book and thanks for your guidance. I am really keen to find out where i can get suitable doors for the brick smoker. Construction on this will start on Monday and i need to make sure i have the correct dimensions for the openings.

Does anyone on here know where i can get hold of suitable doors?

Thanks All

Gavlar


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## jockaneezer

Hi Gav, I just put "cast iron door" into an ebay uk search and there were a few that came up that looked pretty good but not cheap. Do you have any of those reclamation yards or a decent scrap yard near you ? last time I was at my local scrappy, he had two old wood burning stoves that would have made good donors for doors.

Graeme.


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## kc5tpy

GRAEME!  How ya doing buddy?  Long time no hear.  Glad to have you back posting!

Sorry for the highjack.

Danny


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## gavlar

Hi again

Hoping some of you guys can help me here as the work is starting on my build this week and next.

Looking at the smoker, it is going to be a straight vertical block build, i will get cast iron doors from eBay (as suggested by Jockaneezer - cheers for that) for the fire entrance and also to access the shelves higher up. So a couple of questions come to mind:

Should i buy a fire grate and ash pan from a fireplace company to provide an airflow around the coals?
Is there a rule of thumb for the distance from the fire or distance from the meat shelves for the water pan?
How do i support the block work ceiling to the smoker and how wide and tall should the chimney be?
Looking at the separate brick BBQ - I am also looking for suggestions on how to adjust the distance between the meat and the fire source. my first thoughts was to integrate a car jack below and to raise and lower the fire source from the static grill, alternatively raising and lowering the grill from the static fire source. Keen to hear thoughts and what you guys have either built or seen before.

Not sure how to tag people on here but keen to hear thoughts from Wade and Wes too

Many thanks all

Gavlar


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## kc5tpy

Hello Gavalar.

Copy your thread link: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/199362/uk-build-ideas/40

Left click on Wes's avavatar.  You will see send private message on the left side of the screen under his avatar.  Click on that, paste your thread link and ask him to please take a start at post number 20.

Just my opinions: ( I have no experience with brick built )  I would think brick built should help hold the moisture and the water pan should not be needed.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   Wes will know.  I LIKE options!  When I build I build "options" into the original design.  I would build so that I could move the grill up or down in say 6"-8" increments  This could be done by screwing angle iron on the brickwork after the mortar is set.  Maybe 10"-12" might be enough but anyway it would allow you to place the racks where ever you want them and also use a water pan if necessary.  This might be overkill but once it is built you don't want to tear anything apart or "WISH" you had done X, Y or Z.  This should be a once in a lifetime build.  Whether you use them or not; think hard and add all the bells and whistles now.

Fire grates and ash pans.  These may be tough to find for such a custom build.  For the fire grate in such a big unit  I would use 16 mm concrete reinforcement steel ( 20 would be better but slightly more expensive. )  Just one place: http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/high-tensile-reinforcement-bar-16mm-x-3m.html  You might find it cheaper.

Have is custom made by a local welder.  If you have a grinder cut the pieces yourself and have them weld it together.  Or weld it yourself if you have the skills.  Put at least 2 bars underneath the grate to help keep the grate from sagging.  For an ash pan; do you NEED one?  If so think out of the box.  Could you use baking trays and save money?  Or something else?  Maybe just aluminium foil to catch ash?  If not you can have a custom pan made by the local welder.  If you choose this option go with 6-8mm plate steel.  It should last for years!  That's the extent of my advice.  Wes will be able to help you more.  Post picts. of the build and the finished somkers.

Good luck.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gavlar

Hi Danny

Many thanks for your input, the steel rebar is a great idea and one i think i will use. The build started yesterday and i have asked the builders to hold off construction for now, just bring the blockwork out of the ground for now.

Looking at the build head on my idea is ti have the left hand size of the build to be a tall blockwork smoker which will extend above the level of the grill area at a lower level to the right hand side.

The attached pics gives you an idea of the size, its narrower than i had hoped which i hope wont be a problem. I have also taken advice from Graeme and checked out the cast iron doors on ebay, almost most all will have to come from Poland.

Please ask questions if i my thread is not clear.

Thanks All













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## kc5tpy

Hello.  I am a lot out of my knowledge here but that is almost 9' long and what? 18"- 24" ID.?  Is that what your "firebox looks" like?  So the whole smoker is 18"-24" deep or I am missing something?  Also is that a concrete slab under those blocks?  If so does it run to the OD. of the structure they started and how deep is the foundation?  Did you contact Wes?  I can also contact him if you like.  I am glad you put the build on hold.  DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.  would be a shame to pay for the build and then find it is not usable.

Wes is your man here.  I just don't have the knowledge or know anyone else who does.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gavlar

Hi Danny

I sent Wes a PM as suggested, but not heard back yet.

I have added the same pic but with some graphics to explain my thoughts. The blue is the smoker with the red boxed as the fire door to the bottom and another door above to access the smoked food, above to the rear will be a chimney with damper.

As part of the same construction there will be a grill area represented by the green box. The grill will now be fixed flush with the top finished surface, I am just considering how to lower and raise the coals below. Hidden car jack is still a thought, the scissor type you get with your spare wheel rather than the big ones garages use.













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## thenegativeone

Hi Gav, I'm not able to provide any help on the smoker front as that knowledge eludes me but for the grill have you though of having a Santa Maria style system to raise and lower the cooking grate?

I don't know if it would be easier/harder than the jack system but it's just another option.

Look forward to seeing the completed build.


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## wes w

Gavlar said:


> Hi again
> 
> Hoping some of you guys can help me here as the work is starting on my build this week and next.
> 
> Looking at the smoker, it is going to be a straight vertical block build, i will get cast iron doors from eBay (as suggested by Jockaneezer - cheers for that) for the fire entrance and also to access the shelves higher up. So a couple of questions come to mind:
> 
> Should i buy a fire grate and ash pan from a fireplace company to provide an airflow around the coals?
> Is there a rule of thumb for the distance from the fire or distance from the meat shelves for the water pan?
> How do i support the block work ceiling to the smoker and how wide and tall should the chimney be?
> Looking at the separate brick BBQ - I am also looking for suggestions on how to adjust the distance between the meat and the fire source. my first thoughts was to integrate a car jack below and to raise and lower the fire source from the static grill, alternatively raising and lowering the grill from the static fire source. Keen to hear thoughts and what you guys have either built or seen before.
> 
> Not sure how to tag people on here but keen to hear thoughts from Wade and Wes too
> 
> Many thanks all
> 
> Gavlar


Good morning Gavlar,

Sorry I didn't get your message sooner.   

1.   I was able to find a small fire grate online to put my fire on.  To hold the small ashes, I cut a piece of stretch metal and layed it on top of the grate.   Toward the end of a smoke when all is hot,  you won't need much fire at all.   













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This is the best picture I have of the firebox.  The metal over the grate is the same metal I made the shelves from.  I believe its 1/2in. stretch metal.

2.  From the floor of the firebox to the water pan shelf  I built mine about 21in. up or however it works out with your brick work.   I just guessed at it.  It does work well at that distance.  Your water pan is going to block any open fire coming up.    Now, on a related note.  If I'm running a full smoker of pork, I do have to rotate about half way through.   I've never been able to figure out how to make the temp even all the way up.  The bottom does run hotter and by rotating,  everything finishes at the same time and comes out perfect.   From the water pan shelf to the first rack for me is 7 1/2 in.  The shelves are spaced the same on up.













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Here is the bottom part being built.  The water pan shelf is between the two doors.   This shows how I made my shelves

3.  Once I went as high as I wanted with the oven chamber,  I started stepping the brick in to a point I could set a flue liner on it.  I used a 13 x 13in liner.  It is way big enough.  You only need a flue liner big enough that is equal or greater then the amount of air coming in the vents.   The reason I used a liner that big was so it would match the fireplace.  After setting your liner, just brick around it leaving at least 1/2 in space around it for thermal expansen.    If you use a chimney cap it will clamp on the flue liner.   A smoker won't ever get hot enough to need a flue liner, but it makes finishing the top a lot simpler.













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Here is setting the flue liner.  I used a metal damper on top.   I can close it to help regulate the heat going out.   It does work great, but I don't recommend it if you plan on getting your smoker super hot, like 500F hot.   Heat and metal don't mix at high temps.  Needless to say I cracked the top of my smoker burning off some mold about 3 years back.  I had it up to about  600F.  It didn't cause any problems, it just looks bad.  













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This is how I support the water pan. 1/4in steal plates.  I can also  move the outside plates if I need more heat or less.  I leave about 1/2in on sides and front and back for heat to come through when smoking pork.   full size foil pan serves as my water pan in the middle.  

I hope this helps.   If you have other questions, please ask.    I'm no expert.   This is just how I built mine.   It does work well for me.   Always glad to help anyway I can!


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## kc5tpy

I know that all means something to a bricky but for the life of me I don't know what.  Thanks Wes.

Hi Gav..  I told you Wes knew his stuff.  He is also a great guy so if you have any more questions just ask.  He will help where he can.  If like me you don't understand all that, get your builder have a read.  Good luck.  Get it built right the first time.  Keep Smokin!

Danny


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## gavlar

Thanks so much guys for your help and guidance.

I will go source the steels etc and have found fire bricks and panels on ebay that should do the trick.

I will post pics as the build starts again ok.

My main task is to try to find doors for the fire area and smoker door above.

Thanks again

Gavlar


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## gavlar

Thanks Wes for the detailed response

I have screwed up a bit and not left enough depth in my design for air space between the external block work and the internal fire brick wall. I will have to go with it as it is. I have also found a supplier of firebricks on EBay at a reasonable price, i will chance my luck with a strong mortar mix for the fire bricks rather than a specialist mortar which seems to be expensive.

I have also found a steel supplier who can make all the metal parts such as shelves, water pans, grill and fire basket.

I just need to figure out a vent for the base of the smoker (thanks Wes for the advice of the width of the chimney in relation to the vent)

How to raise and lower the coals under the grill (i don't want to raise and lower the grill part, i would like that flush with the structure)

And finally where the hell to get doors for the smoker, i have looked at cast iron on eBay as suggested and they all need to come from Poland and are quite small.

Any suggestions and ideas always welcome and will post pics and updates as it progresses.

Cheers all

Gavlar


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## wes w

Gavlar said:


> Thanks Wes for the detailed response
> 
> I have screwed up a bit and not left enough depth in my design for air space between the external block work and the internal fire brick wall. I will have to go with it as it is. I have also found a supplier of firebricks on EBay at a reasonable price, i will chance my luck with a strong mortar mix for the fire bricks rather than a specialist mortar which seems to be expensive.
> 
> I have also found a steel supplier who can make all the metal parts such as shelves, water pans, grill and fire basket.
> 
> I just need to figure out a vent for the base of the smoker (thanks Wes for the advice of the width of the chimney in relation to the vent)
> 
> How to raise and lower the coals under the grill (i don't want to raise and lower the grill part, i would like that flush with the structure)
> 
> And finally where the hell to get doors for the smoker, i have looked at cast iron on eBay as suggested and they all need to come from Poland and are quite small.
> 
> Any suggestions and ideas always welcome and will post pics and updates as it progresses.
> 
> Cheers all
> 
> Gavlar


Gavlar, if you have a !/4 in. its enough.  You just need room for the fire  brick to expand and contract with the heat.   You'll be fine.

You can always have your doors custom built.   Lucky for me, my brother built mine.  He has a fab shop and I didn't have to pay.   If you have them custom made, make sure the frame is at least 3in. angle iron.  That way, you can use the top of the frame as a lintel  for the brick to go over the top opening.

Looking forward to seeing you build.   Its a shame everyone I'd love to meet, live so far away....   If you have questions, just shoot me a PM or post here.   Been a busy summer.  I'll answer as soon as I can.


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## gavlar

Well after all this time i have finally got round to starting my build. Its not perfect by any means but i have bitten the bullet and the materials have just been deleivered. So here is my project for the next few weeks.

Watch this space - pics to follow as i go.

Cheers

Gavlar


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## gavlar

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## gavlar

Well construction has moved on a bit and am now starting to render the blockwork. I tried firing up the smoker but am struggling to get a decent draw through the chimney. Thanks Wade for your guidance, i still haven't figured out how to get the draw right. Is it better to have a narrow chimney or a wide chimney if the height of both would be the same?

Anyway here are the latest pics:













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## gavlar

Wes W said:


> Gavlar, if you have a !/4 in. its enough.  You just need room for the fire  brick to expand and contract with the heat.   You'll be fine.
> 
> You can always have your doors custom built.   Lucky for me, my brother built mine.  He has a fab shop and I didn't have to pay.   If you have them custom made, make sure the frame is at least 3in. angle iron.  That way, you can use the top of the frame as a lintel  for the brick to go over the top opening.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you build.   Its a shame everyone I'd love to meet, live so far away....   If you have questions, just shoot me a PM or post here.   Been a busy summer.  I'll answer as soon as I can.


Thoughts Wes?


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## HeyBertHeyErnie

Liking the progress, how did this pan out? Finished yet?


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