# 2nd gen Masterbuilt PID questions



## johnnyb54 (Mar 14, 2017)

I have a 2nd generation 40" 1200W Masterbuilt smoker that I would like to connect to a Auber PID controller since I'm not happy with the wide temp swings I'm getting. I know that the PID needs to be connected per Auber instructions as shown here ()

My two questions are:

When rewiring the Masterbuilt do I keep the Masterbuilt temperature limit cutoff switch in or do I eliminate that also?

I use my Masterbuilt for low temp smoking for making smoked sausage, snack sticks, jerky and bacon. I am not concerned with the Masterbuilt chip loader producing smoke as I use a AMNPS. The PID controllers I have been looking at for the Masterbuilt are:
WS-1510ELPM (multi purpose)
WS-1510DPMS (K type thermocouple)
WS-1211GP (single sensor)
WSD-1200GPH (dual probe). 
Is one better then the other for the application that I mentioned in the top of the paragraph? 
Thanks in advance for any help in the matter.


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## tallbm (Mar 15, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> I have a 2nd generation 40" 1200W Masterbuilt smoker that I would like to connect to a Auber PID controller since I'm not happy with the wide temp swings I'm getting. I know that the PID needs to be connected per Auber instructions as shown here ()
> 
> My two questions are:
> 
> ...



Well you are in luck my friend, I did this exact thing a little over a month ago so I have your answers!

Yes keep the cutoff switch wired into the circuit.  This is a safety feature you want to have.
  -I personally would also recommend you switch the existing ONE TIME cutoff switch for one you can reset should it ever trip, Goodman Amana B1370154 Flame Rollout Switch 350° OEM is the one I went with so I actually knew the cut off limit and could reset it (oh and so I could do chicken at 325F for good skin, but 325F would be a rare exception to avoid burning up the insulation)
-Ebay has the best prices you can find on the Goodman Amana B1370154 Flame Rollout Switch 350°, get at least 2 in case you mess one up when applying the spades to connect (like I did)
 
  When it comes to the Plug and Play PID I saw the following mentioned with the WS-1211GPH that made me shy away from the 1200 series models and opt for a 1500 series model:

" _The power rating is 1200 watts for 120V, more than sufficient for the 500 watts required for Bradley smokers. If you are going to use it for other larger smokers, you can purchase our multi purpose controller WS-1500ELPM._ "

The 1500 series models can handle 15A which will easily cover the 1200Watt element for your MES and have a little room to spare.
*I purchased and would recommend the WS-1510ELPM* over the 15010DPMS because the DPMS is meant for higher temp applications with a less accurate probe.  Neither of those features apply for smoking with the MES.
I would also recommend you call them up and see if they will send it with the "Clip On" senser rather than the multi purpose sensor (u dont want the sou vide sensor).  I have fought with the little multi purpose sensor getting blocked by meat to where the airflow doesn't hit it well thereby giving a lower reading in the smoker than my Maverick bbq probe as a backup was reporting.  The clip will allow you to hang it on the bottom of the rack easily rather than fight with it like I do :)

Finally there is the dual probe WSD-1501GPH for more money.  I seriously debated on it but having a dual probe maverick I and looking at the price difference I figured I could use the difference in savings to buy an additional dual probe maverick for 4 meat probes vs the 1 extra probe it provides that cannot even notify me when I'm inside my home lol.

 
Some additional things to consider:

Get your hands on some Steel High Temp Female spade connectors 14-16AWG 1/4 width.  You will want to replace the cheap non-high temp connectors on the element and the cuttoff switch as they corrode easily and will likely already be showing signs of corrosion.  I could only find these at Fry's in the store, nowhere online had them for a reasonable price or for numbers less than 100 when you only need like 10 max (in case you mess up)
I used one 14-16 AWG Steel High Temp butt connector in my wire job to leverage the existing and to splice the hot wire from the chord coming into the MES into the existing wire that goes to the cuttoff
Get some insulation shrink wrap to go over the high temp connectors, you can electrical tape them in place to hold and let the smoker heat shrink them, use a heat gun to shrink them if you have a heat gun, or go ghetto like me and use my butane bbq lighter and quickly wand over the shrink wrap to shrink it without burning it lol
Do not have loose connectors, I did on my cutt off switch and overheated it.  Had to replace it and the connector.  I then put the tough steel connectors on both terminals of the new cutt off switch I had to add and used a brass hammer to tap them firmly in place, then I wired to them.  Attaching those tough steel connectors on the cutt off when it is in place is hard to do without bending the cutt off all to hell.  Lesson learned here!
If you are going to pull your wiring out from under the foam insulation, consider replacing the insulation with some high temp overn/stove insulation like the following I got from ebay for a great price Guy Cuts Insulation and Sells Here on Ebay
The Gen 2 bsheet metal acking is a PAIN in the butt to remove and then add back again.  It will NOT come all the way off at the top (not for me) so be ready to roll it back as far as it will go and live with it as you work on the smoker.  The lip of the sheet metal backing will bend and kink up so be ready to do some hammering to get it somewhat straight and to hammer it back into the lip groove of the MES.  Do the best you can.
Have some self tapping sheet metal screws and use them to help keep the back on and in place once you do the best you can to get the metal backing to fit into the lip groove.  This will keep the backing on and well secured after the hack job that will happen to get the sheet metal backing lip into the lip groove of the MES hahaha
In all the tear down, rewire, and reassembly took me about 4-5 hours and I had NEVER done it before and was learning plenty of things on the fly
Tools and Parts to Make sure you have:

Electrical wire stripper and crimp tool that can do 14-16AWG wiring
(10 pack+) Hi Temp Stainless Steel 14-16AWG Female spade connectors (straight ones not right angle ones are easier to crimp and work with)
(5 pack+) Hi Temp Stainless Steel 14-16 AWG Butt Connector
1/4 inch Shrink wrap tubing/tube sleeves rated at 300F or higher, MIGHT be able to get buy with high temp electric tape but wouldnt recommend since it can come undone.  Amazon sells packs for like $10-15
3/4 inch Self Tapping Sheet Metal Screws for securing back sheet metal
1/8 inch drill bit to drill out riviets or some screws with weird heads (my phillips driver bit actually unscrewed these star head screws)
Hi Temp stove/oven insulation to fill in for any removed foam insulation
I hope this info helps out, please feel free to ask away if you have anymore questions!  Best of luck! :)


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 15, 2017)

TallBM, thanks for the helpful info! Just a couple of quick questions. Even after drilling all the rivets from the back panel you still had a tough time removing the panel? Any idea what it was hung up on or was there a couple of rivets/screws that you could not get to? The rollout switch you recommend does it fit where the current rollout switch is without any modification? Did you use the auto-tune feature and if you did, did you see any improvement in the temp holding? After installation what is temp swing you get if any! Thanks again for all the info. I'm currently in the planning stage but I will definitely let you know what I decide to do.


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## tallbm (Mar 15, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> TallBM, thanks for the helpful info! Just a couple of quick questions. Even after drilling all the rivets from the back panel you still had a tough time removing the panel? Any idea what it was hung up on or was there a couple of rivets/screws that you could not get to? The rollout switch you recommend does it fit where the current rollout switch is without any modification? Did you use the auto-tune feature and if you did, did you see any improvement in the temp holding? After installation what is temp swing you get if any! Thanks again for all the info. I'm currently in the planning stage but I will definitely let you know what I decide to do.



After drilling out rivets the back is still hard to pull off as the foam insulation acts like an adhesive! 
*Actually I would need to double check but I may be confusing the Gen 2 and the Gen1* when it comes to the rivets.  The Gen 2 may not even have rivets!   It may only have the lip groove and the sheet metal lip along with the fact that the foam acts like an adhesive.  In any case u will need some self taping sheet metal screws to help reinforce the backing once you put it back on.  Just go slow and steady as you *pry* off the backing
When you peel back the sheet metal backing and get to the top of the smoker it seems their are special screw holes used for fastening the big smoker handle to the smoker, and they seem like they cannot be removed or pried apart.  They hold the sheet metal backing to the smoker as well way up there at the top of the smoker.  At that point you can roll the backing up and over the smoker on that end and it should stay out of your way. You may want to use a long piece of duct tape to keep it peeled back so it wont flap back in your way while working on the wiring but if you lay the smoker on it's door (face down) the weight of the sheet metal kept it from flopping back.
 
The rollout switch I mention fits perfectly with no need to modify it!  I was so thrilled about this.
Word to the wise here:
-DO NOT lose the screw and nut from the stock rollout, keep the safe after removing the old rollout! 
-Put the steel electric connector spades on both sides of the roll out tabs as far as your hands can push them without forcing or bending the tabs 
-Then with both connectors started hold the rollout resting the bottom connector on the floor or a board and gently start tapping the top connector with a hammer. This will cause both connectors to start wedging further on the tabs.  Stop when they both reach the set point and/or turn the rollout over and start tapping the bottom connector until it reaches it set point. 
-After the connectors are set put the tubing on the wire
-Crimp the wire to the connector
-Slide the tubing over the connector and wire and apply heat to shrink the tubing over the connector to insulate it
-Fasten the rollout to the smoker
-FOLLOW these step exactly and in order and you will have no issues with the rollout like I did at first hahahaha
 
I used the Auto-Tune feature, yeah.  It did wonderfully.  My temps held within 1 degree reliably!  Just be sure you let the auto tune do it's thing from a cold smoker and give it plenty of time, it may take an hour or more.
I saw no temperature swing but there was a light overshoot as it got up to temp initially, after that it came down and stayed right one and I was super happy!!!  It holds right on the number 95% of the time and every now and again you might catch a 1 degree drop for maybe 10 seconds lol
Keep in mind that after the autotune it will be set well BUT I had a few user caused issues with the little probe being able to correctly read the smoker temps. 

I had to play around and figure out that the probe can be easily blocked by meat and not get a proper sense of the smoker temp if there is poor air flow to it.  I also learned that if it touches meat or gets dripped on then it can affect temperature readings as well.  I use one of my maverick probes as a back up.  My Maverick hybrid probes are much larger and seem much less sucseptable to being hindered by meat and drippings, etc when reading the smoker temp.  

This is why I mention to try and get the alligator clip probe model TC-K6A from Auber if they will let you.  I think u can clip on the bottom of the rack and and as long as you avoid drips you will have less issues than I have had.  I always like to have one of my Maverick probes as a back up anyhow since I always had to with the stock MES controller... old habbits :)

I hope this info helps and you can read about my whole PID autotune experience here http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/258173/my-first-mes-and-auber-pid-experience-plug-and-play

I tried to give a lot of details.  If you have anymore questions please ask.  Thanks! :)


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## Bearcarver (Mar 15, 2017)

Johnny,

You'd probably get better heat balance in that Gen #2, if you remove that Slanted Drip Plate, with the Little water pan hanging from it.

Then put your bottom rack in, and place about a 9" X 12" Foil pan on the middle of that rack.

Then if you use an AMNPS, put it on the right end of that rack & manipulate the Chip Dumper in & out to control Air Flow to your AMNPS.

It should make it similar to the Gen #2.5.

Bear


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 15, 2017)

Bearcarver said:


> Johnny,
> You'd probably get better heat balance in that Gen #2, if you remove that Slanted Drip Plate, with the Little water pan hanging from it.
> 
> Then put your bottom rack in, and place about a 9" X 12" Foil pan on the middle of that rack.
> ...



Bear, it's not the heat balance as I have no issue with that. The issue I'm not happy with is the wide temp swings. If I set the Masterbuilt temp for 150 I heat spike at 165-170 and it dips down to 145-140 before the element start to heat up the chamber. I'm used to smoking with lump coal so if I set my smoker at 225 it stays at 225. I know electrics are a different breed but if I can eliminate that swing that would make me a happy man.:yahoo:
Thanks


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 15, 2017)

TallBM said:


> After drilling out rivets the back is still hard to pull off as the foam insulation acts like an adhesive!
> *Actually I would need to double check but I may be confusing the Gen 2 and the Gen1* when it comes to the rivets.  The Gen 2 may not even have rivets!  It may only have the lip groove and the sheet metal lip along with the fact that the foam acts like an adhesive.  In any case u will need some self taping sheet metal screws to help reinforce the backing once you put it back on.  Just go slow and steady as you *pry* off the backing
> When you peel back the sheet metal backing and get to the top of the smoker it seems their are special screw holes used for fastening the big smoker handle to the smoker, and they seem like they cannot be removed or pried apart.  They hold the sheet metal backing to the smoker as well way up there at the top of the smoker.  At that point you can roll the backing up and over the smoker on that end and it should stay out of your way. You may want to use a long piece of duct tape to keep it peeled back so it wont flap back in your way while working on the wiring but if you lay the smoker on it's door (face down) the weight of the sheet metal kept it from flopping back.
> 
> ...



I checked the back of my smoker and you were right there are no screws except for the handle mounts and a couple of screws on the bottom. I can see getting the back panel is going to be a pain.


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## tallbm (Mar 15, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> I checked the back of my smoker and you were right there are no screws except for the handle mounts and a couple of screws on the bottom. I can see getting the back panel is going to be a pain.


Yeah.

The best way I found was to straighten the lip on the metal sheet backing and then hammer a little of one side in, then switch to the other side.  Work down a little on each side and hammer it in little bit by little bit.  Once it is all back on as best as possible use 3-4 sheet metal screws on each side where the lip goes in and it will be secured.

The backing is by far the slowest and most annoying part but with a little time and methodical work you will get it back in place no prob :)


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## dr k (Mar 15, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> Bear, it's not the heat balance as I have no issue with that. The issue I'm not happy with is the wide temp swings. If I set the Masterbuilt temp for 150 I heat spike at 165-170 and it dips down to 145-140 before the element start to heat up the chamber. I'm used to smoking with lump coal so if I set my smoker at 225 it stays at 225. I know electrics are a different breed but if I can eliminate that swing that would make me a happy man.:yahoo:
> Thanks


I think Bear is right with putting in the bottom rack and a pan. The gen 2 allows heat up the door and back wall where the pan is open on all walls. The more metal between the sensor and element the more the metal radiates heat when the element shuts off, coasting past the set point and takes time to heat up and find a path to the sensor after it kicks on causing larger temp drops past the set point. Since I dont use the chip system. And use the amnps in a mailbox mod I got all unnecessary metal out between the heating element and sensor for shorter cycles in the pic below. The gen 1 40 I have had even more metal above and below the element than the gen 2 and 2.5. Just getting the slanted heat trap out should make a big difference on temp swings. I think that's why the gen 2.5 is more similar to the gen 1. 












CAM00898.jpg



__ dr k
__ Aug 28, 2016






-Kurt


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## tallbm (Mar 15, 2017)

@*johnnyb54*

Hey Dr K just brought up a good question in my Auber Pid post.

He asked if there would be a way to avoid tearing off the back and being able to rewire the smoker where all the wires are situated at the bottom circuit board.

It dawned on me that if take off the bottom panel, peal back the connector insulation on the black braided wires, turn on the smoker so that it is heating, and then use a multimeter on those connectors you can figure out which of the MES black braided wires is hot and which is neutral.

See the image below for reference.

Then you just butt splice or solder the black braided hot to the slick black hot wire from the power chord, and then butt splice/solder the black braided neutral to the white power chord neutral. 

Then you just rewire the rollout switch through it's independent panel with no need to remove the smoker backing.  Just have some extra 14 AWG wire available because they don't leave you with much slack using the existing wiring!

I will check into this further when I rewire my Gen1 for my Heatermeter PID setup soon 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			


















3a6236a1_IMG_5087.jpg



__ tallbm
__ Mar 15, 2017


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 16, 2017)

Dr K said:


> I think Bear is right with putting in the bottom rack and a pan. The gen 2 allows heat up the door and back wall where the pan is open on all walls. The more metal between the sensor and element the more the metal radiates heat when the element shuts off, coasting past the set point and takes time to heat up and find a path to the sensor after it kicks on causing larger temp drops past the set point. Since I dont use the chip system. And use the amnps in a mailbox mod I got all unnecessary metal out between the heating element and sensor for shorter cycles in the pic below. The gen 1 40 I have had even more metal above and below the element than the gen 2 and 2.5. Just getting the slanted heat trap out should make a big difference on temp swings. I think that's why the gen 2.5 is more similar to the gen 1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is definitely some food for thought. It didn't click that Bear was alluding to the water pan slant shelf acting as a heat sink. I will do some tests on this and get back to you. Thanks



TallBM said:


> @*johnnyb54*
> 
> Hey Dr K just brought up a good question in my Auber Pid post.
> 
> ...


TALLBM, what independent panel are you referring to regarding rollout switch? Mine is just mounted to the back of the smoker with no access plate. I see no way to change the switch with out removing the back panel.


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## Bearcarver (Mar 16, 2017)

Dr K said:


> I think Bear is right with putting in the bottom rack and a pan. The gen 2 allows heat up the door and back wall where the pan is open on all walls. The more metal between the sensor and element the more the metal radiates heat when the element shuts off, coasting past the set point and takes time to heat up and find a path to the sensor after it kicks on causing larger temp drops past the set point. Since I dont use the chip system. And use the amnps in a mailbox mod I got all unnecessary metal out between the heating element and sensor for shorter cycles in the pic below. The gen 1 40 I have had even more metal above and below the element than the gen 2 and 2.5. Just getting the slanted heat trap out should make a big difference on temp swings. I think that's why the gen 2.5 is more similar to the gen 1.
> 
> 
> -Kurt





johnnyb54 said:


> That is definitely some food for thought. It didn't click that Bear was alluding to the water pan slant shelf acting as a heat sink. I will do some tests on this and get back to you. Thanks
> TALLBM, what independent panel are you referring to regarding rollout switch? Mine is just mounted to the back of the smoker with no access plate. I see no way to change the switch with out removing the back panel.


Actually I wasn't really referring to the Heat Sink of the Slanted Drip Plate.

The real problem with the slanted Drip Plate is that it traps the heat from rising. Then the heat stacks up under that slanted plate & moves up hill like heat does, which in this case is to the right. Then it goes around the Drip plate, but by then it's all on the right side, which causes the right side of the smoker to be hotter than the left. Removing that slanted plate, like I explained above causes the Gen #2 to act more like the Gen #2.5, which is Awesome.

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Mar 16, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> Bear, it's not the heat balance as I have no issue with that. The issue I'm not happy with is the wide temp swings. If I set the Masterbuilt temp for 150 I heat spike at 165-170 and it dips down to 145-140 before the element start to heat up the chamber. I'm used to smoking with lump coal so if I set my smoker at 225 it stays at 225. I know electrics are a different breed but if I can eliminate that swing that would make me a happy man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Temp swing problem is normal, unless you have a PID that they say can out-think the Smoker.

The problem is the worst after a long run up or down, like from Ambient temp to 275°, which could cause it to over-run the setting after it shuts off, and can go as high as 310°.

Also if you then set it for 230°, and it gets rolling down & passes the 230° setting, it could drop as far as 210° before beginning to rise again.

The objective is to make the up & down moves as short as possible keep the momentum from building up.

I explain my method of eliminating that problem in the following Thread at this Link:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/208552/avoid-temp-swings-in-mes-by-bear

Bear


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 16, 2017)

Bear
[/quote]





Bearcarver said:


> That Temp swing problem is normal, unless you have a PID that they say can out-think the Smoker.
> 
> The problem is the worst after a long run up or down, like from Ambient temp to 275°, which could cause it to over-run the setting after it shuts off, and can go as high as 310°.
> 
> ...



Thanks Bear, I'm currently testing my unit without the bottom slant shelf installed and with just the shroud over the heating element. The current temp here in Long Island NY is 29 but the smoker is protected from the wind. I'm heating the unit to 155 as per the post you shared. I'll let you know how this works out. Thanks


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## tallbm (Mar 16, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> That is definitely some food for thought. It didn't click that Bear was alluding to the water pan slant shelf acting as a heat sink. I will do some tests on this and get back to you. Thanks
> TALLBM, what independent panel are you referring to regarding rollout switch? Mine is just mounted to the back of the smoker with no access plate. I see no way to change the switch with out removing the back panel.


[UPDATE: Edited to add image of the back of Gen2 panel that My mother sent, her phone camera sucks but it did the job.]

The Gen 2 I worked on had a panel with screws where the rollout switch was.  I've already given the smoker to my mother for her Bday this weekend.  I will see if she can get me a pic to share with you guys. Unless someone with a Gen 2 wants to take a pic of the back of the smoker and post it.  

The rollout switch panel is on the left hand side (when facing the back of the smoker) about 1/3 of the way up.

It seems the Gen2 got this panel feature right, too bad they had so many other issues lol

I can't find a pic online of the back of a Gen 2 smoker :(

Tomorrow I can check the Gen 1 I have and see if it also has an independent panel for the rollout switch but from your feedback I'm guessing it does not so I will likely be cutting a panels for the rollout switch and the heating element should I need to do more work with it :)













rolloutPanel.jpg



__ tallbm
__ Mar 16, 2017


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 16, 2017)

TallBM said:


> [UPDATE: Edited to add image of the back of Gen2 panel that My mother sent, her phone camera sucks but it did the job.]
> The Gen 2 I worked on had a panel with screws where the rollout switch was.  I've already given the smoker to my mother for her Bday this weekend.  I will see if she can get me a pic to share with you guys. Unless someone with a Gen 2 wants to take a pic of the back of the smoker and post it.
> The rollout switch panel is on the left hand side (when facing the back of the smoker) about 1/3 of the way up.
> 
> ...



I just checked again on my smoker and there is no plate. There was a manufacture plate that was in the approximate area but there was not access plate underneath. If I go this route I may just use a hole cutter to get to the rollout switch.


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## tallbm (Mar 16, 2017)

I guess I lucked out with the Gen2 model I had.  I guess there is just no telling what changes they might make between model numbers within the same Generation.  

On my Gen1 I will pull the back.

Cut large enough rectangles over the rollout switch and the heating element.

Make my own rectangle panels out of sheet metal that are larger than the holes I cut. 

       I'm thinking of putting hinges on one side of the square panels I make and a few screws to fasten the other sides closed.  Then I could undo the screws and flap the panel open if I need to get back into the rollout switch or the heating element.

A little flat flexible rubber under the panel should work as a gasket toor keeping water out.  That's what the Gen2 with the panels used for a water tight seal.


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 16, 2017)

[/quote]





Bearcarver said:


> Actually I wasn't really referring to the Heat Sink of the Slanted Drip Plate.
> The real problem with the slanted Drip Plate is that it traps the heat from rising. Then the heat stacks up under that slanted plate & moves up hill like heat does, which in this case is to the right. Then it goes around the Drip plate, but by then it's all on the right side, which causes the right side of the smoker to be hotter than the left. Removing that slanted plate, like I explained above causes the Gen #2 to act more like the Gen #2.5, which is Awesome.
> 
> 
> Bear


I just finished running the test on the Masterbuilt. Like I mentioned in a previous post I removed the slant plate and only kept the shroud on the heater. I set the temp for 150 and monitored the heat. The results were similar with the plate in, in fact the results might be a little worse. With the temp set at 150 my high temp was 176 and the low was 146 (the Masterbuilt ran for 2 hrs). The swing is 30 deg. where before it was around 25. I realize that if I want the average to be 150 I would lower the set temp to 135 but when I'm trying to finish smoked sausage at 155 it's a real pain with the temp swing. I need to bump the temp up for the sausage to reach the required 155 but when I do that I risk melting the fat. If I was only doing brisket, pulled pork or chicken I don't think the swing would be any issue but I cook those on my charcoal smokers and only use the Masterbuilt for sausage, jerky and bacon.


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## garyinmd (Mar 16, 2017)

JohnnyB54 here are some pictures that show what is under the covers of the pictures you posted

You can see the element on the left and the safety on the right.  The smoker was laying on its side when I took these pictures

.













Smoker Wiring (1).JPG



__ garyinmd
__ Mar 16, 2017






Safety Switch













Smoker Wiring (4).JPG



__ garyinmd
__ Mar 16, 2017






This is the bottom of my Gen2 which is where the cord comes in and where the controller is located.













Smoker Wiring (11).JPG



__ garyinmd
__ Mar 16, 2017






Hope this helps

Gary


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## tallbm (Mar 16, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> The swing is 30 deg. where before it was around 25. I realize that if I want the average to be 150 I would lower the set temp to 135 but when I'm trying to finish smoked sausage at 155 it's a real pain with the temp swing. I need to bump the temp up for the sausage to reach the required 155 but when I do that I risk melting the fat. If I was only doing brisket, pulled pork or chicken I don't think the swing would be any issue but I cook those on my charcoal smokers and only use the Masterbuilt for sausage, jerky and bacon.


That is a major reasoning for me to go PID as well.  I work too hard hunting and processing my meat to have my sausages ruined by a temp swing.


garyinmd said:


> JohnnyB54 here are some pictures that show what is under the covers of the pictures you posted
> Hope this helps
> Gary


Wow great pics Gary!

Looks like you have rollout switch and heating element panels as well, you lucky dog!


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## Bearcarver (Mar 16, 2017)

I just finished running the test on the Masterbuilt. Like I mentioned in a previous post I removed the slant plate and only kept the shroud on the heater. *You only did part of what I said. You didn't put the Foil Pan on the center of the bottom rack. You left the whole smoker empty so heat doesn't get any interference in rising. This was not to reduce the Temp Swing. This was to balance the Heat from left to right.*[/quote]


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## johnnyb54 (Mar 16, 2017)

Bear, the reason I didn't do the pan is I'm trying to eliminate the temp swing not eliminate hot spots. I will definitely try the pan once I figure what I'm going to change to a PID or not. Right now the PID is looking better and better. I did exactly what your temp swing post said but my swing was still 30 after 2 hrs. of running. I did bring the temp up like you said and let it settle in but still no joy with the swing. I've been smoking with charcoal on my Big Green Eggs for 13 years so I know the importance of controlling temp. The controller on your smoker and others may have tighter settings then mine. Maybe my gen 2 controller is the problem but it's definitely not user error.


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## Bearcarver (Mar 18, 2017)

johnnyb54 said:


> Bear, the reason I didn't do the pan is I'm trying to eliminate the temp swing not eliminate hot spots. I will definitely try the pan once I figure what I'm going to change to a PID or not. Right now the PID is looking better and better. I did exactly what your temp swing post said but my swing was still 30 after 2 hrs. of running. I did bring the temp up like you said and let it settle in but still no joy with the swing. I've been smoking with charcoal on my Big Green Eggs for 13 years so I know the importance of controlling temp. The controller on your smoker and others may have tighter settings then mine. Maybe my gen 2 controller is the problem but it's definitely not user error.


If you follow that method I described at that link, you shouldn't have 30° swings.

Example Again:
Let's say you want a 230° smoker.
Turn it on & set it for 210°.
If it coasts to 235°, after shutting off at 210°, move your setting to 230°.
Now since it won't have to drop more than 5° before it comes on again, it won't fall far below 230, before it begins to rise again.
And then since it won't have far to go before it shuts off again at 230°, it won't coast far above 230° before it begins to fall again.

Once you understand & learn this method, you'll know where to reset your control when your initial start-up peaks out at other Temps.

The Pan isn't only for "Hot Spots";
Not putting the pan in like I said, can have an effect on the swings too, because the pan isn't there to slow the heat down on it's way up through the Smoker

Your Up Swings happen after the Heating element shuts off, and your Down Swings happen after the element comes back on.
Therefore the Swings aren't caused by the Controller.

Once you learn to turn the big swings into small swings, by using my method, you'll only have small swings, and they won't hurt anything.
I can get mine down to Swings of 2° to 8° in a very short time, unless it's Windy, and I don't have a Wind Block up.

Bear


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## crazy smoker (Dec 24, 2018)

I have a similar setup masterbuilt electric smoker 1200watt element currently original.  I read about the pid which I maybe moving to soon.  My two questions are moving to a 1500wAtt element for better heat recovery, should be okay?? Any suggestion as to one that fits inside the same space.  The other question is for my slow smoker unit that sits on the side of the smoker.  I control the amount of smoke by varying with a dimmer on the slow smoker.  Does any pid help control a slow smoker side unit?


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## tallbm (Dec 25, 2018)

crazy smoker said:


> I have a similar setup masterbuilt electric smoker 1200watt element currently original.  I read about the pid which I maybe moving to soon.  My two questions are moving to a 1500wAtt element for better heat recovery, should be okay?? Any suggestion as to one that fits inside the same space.  The other question is for my slow smoker unit that sits on the side of the smoker.  I control the amount of smoke by varying with a dimmer on the slow smoker.  Does any pid help control a slow smoker side unit?




Hi there and welcome!

Q1. In theory there is nothing to stop you from putting in a 1500 watt element.  Just understand that you are getting closer (12amps or more) to maxing out the breaker.  So if you will need to manage how many electrical devices you have and have running on that breaker while you are smoking.
I don't have a recommendation of one that will fit BUT I can tell you that the MES positions the element towards the right side of the smoker so if you get a 1500watt element it would need to conform to the size and positioning of the MES which will likely make finding the element more difficult... not impossible but just more things you must keep in consideration.


Q2.  I haven't seen a PID that "controls" a smoker generator.  I HAVE seen an Auber PID that feeds power to a smoker generator (Bradley brand) but I don't believe it controls the power feed to manipulate the smoke generation.
Bradley smokers come with a side smoke generating unit that feeds wooden sawdust pucks and burns them and just keeps doing it. So I believe the Auber in this case just dumbly pumps power to that thing.
With your setup I would just run an extension cord that has 2 outlets that allows you to plug in the PID (which powers the MES) and allows you to plug in your dimmer and you are basically doing what you do today.
I'm not sure how many amps your smoke generator pulls but be sure you wouldn't be maxing out/tripping your breaker if you go the 1500w element route.

I hope this info helps and best of luck!


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## donaltman3 (Jan 1, 2019)

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