# Welding question:  Rolled steel to stainless?



## radio (Aug 12, 2013)

I can weld OK, but have no experience welding dissimilar metals.  I have a chance to pick up an unfinished stainless smoker for free.  Only the CC has been started and there is no extra material with it for the build.  Can rolled steel be welded to stainless without great difficulty?  Not sure where I could come up with stainless to make a FB.  I would likely paint the whole thing Black anyway, so appearance wouldn't be an issue


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## themule69 (Aug 12, 2013)

You will have to use stainless rod. or stainless wire and 100% argon.

Post some pics of what your working with when you get a chance.

Happy smoken.

David


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## daveomak (Aug 12, 2013)

You may find, later in time, because of the expansion coefficient being so much different, it will crack and separate.....   Especially due to the extreme temp differences in the FB   CC when cold and hot...    

Dave


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## radio (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks Mule and Dave
	

	
	
		
		



		
			





 

I'm not sure it will be worth pursuing as I only have access to a stick welder.


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 12, 2013)

stick welder is fine...  stainless rods are a little pricey though...


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## themule69 (Aug 12, 2013)

DaveOmak said:


> You may find, later in time, because of the expansion coefficient being so much different, it will crack and separate.....   Especially due to the extreme temp differences in the FB when cold and hot...
> 
> Dave









  He ask about 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





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  Hot cold
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Happy smoken.

David


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## LanceR (Aug 12, 2013)

I am definitely not a welding guru but when I asked the local welding supply folks the same question I was told that 309L rod or wire will get the job done.

Lance


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## eight433 (Aug 12, 2013)

It doesn't matter if you use stainless rods or regular. You are still welding dissimilar metals, and the steel side will rust weather your weld bead is stainless or not, if left bare, copy? I've done it before, welding regular steel bumpers to the back of stainless steel refrigerated semi- trailers. They weld together rather easily, no big deal. However I believe Dave could be right about the eventuality of it cracking at the seam. If you plan on making any cuts in the stainless, be sure to pick up 3-4 more blades than you think you need!


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## radio (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks all.

Rust isn't an issue any more so than on any steel smoker as I will paint the whole thing black anyway.  Kind of a shame to do that to stainless, but I'm trying to do this on the cheap and not buy stainless to make the FB.  If I can find something at the local scrap yard I would definitely use stainless though.  Going to be a winter project and will put up some pics when I get the CC here


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## eight433 (Aug 12, 2013)

If it were me, I would just paint up to the weld line and leave the stainless bare. Two tone looks great on more than just cars you know!


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## themule69 (Aug 12, 2013)

I have welded stainless to mild steel a bunch.....i have never planned on building a fire in it after I welded it.......With no hot to cold issues It will work all day long.....mild steel will rust all day long after heat and ash......so that is a non issue!  i wouldn't paint the stainless.

Happy smoken.

David


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## radio (Aug 12, 2013)

eight433 said:


> If it were me, I would just paint up to the weld line and leave the stainless bare. Two tone looks great on more than just cars you know!


That might be a possibility.  I'll have to see what transpires when I start getting all the materials together.  Who knows, might even put twice pipes and mag wheels on it


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## radio (Aug 12, 2013)

themule69 said:


> I have welded stainless to mild steel a bunch.....i have never planned on building a fire in it after I welded it.......With no hot to cold issues It will work all day long.....mild steel will rust all day long after heat and ash......so that is a non issue!  i wouldn't paint the stainless.
> 
> Happy smoken.
> 
> David


Thanks Mule.  If this was to be used in a commercial application where it was fired every day I could see rapid failure between the two metals.  You think two or three times a month on average is going to lead to a short life for the dissimilar metal?


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## shoneyboy (Aug 12, 2013)

Radio, I'm not sure how big your chamber is, but I've always been parshal to building things out of beer kegs, most of them made out of stainless steel. I can usually pick one up fairly cheap on Craig's LIst, depending on your cooking chamber size it may be a cheap way to go........Just a thought ShoneyBoy


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## themule69 (Aug 12, 2013)

radio said:


> Thanks Mule.  If this was to be used in a commercial application where it was fired every day I could see rapid failure between the two metals.  You think two or three times a month on average is going to lead to a short life for the dissimilar metal?


Depending on size......It  could last a life time...........
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  heat kills mild steal....when you attach it to stainless
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	









.....like I said............I can weld it all day long...........never done it in this envirement......How thick is the steel?

David


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## oldschoolbbq (Aug 12, 2013)

If accessible , use a TIG welder. If you can weld with Gas , you will likely be able to succeed. The bond will be greater. Rust will still be a factor, however there are solutions for that too.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Have fun and . . .


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## ribwizzard (Aug 13, 2013)

I've welded mild steel to stainless on many applications with no problems, and I too acquired a stainless steel ( octagon) cooking chamber at one time and welded a mild steel firebox to the side of it along with mild steel legs, handles, etc. then sandblasted and painted it black. I had it for over 10 years and not one sign of cracking.  I have also used stainless wire and rods welding mild steel and have never had any problems there as well.    Now.... I have never had them x-rayed or anything like that, but I have a load leveler on a boat hoist that lifts three tons out of salt water on a regular basis since 2004 I built with mild steel tubing and welded with stainless rods, then blasted and epoxy coated. I think if there was a problem , it would have shown up by now.

Id disregard the fact that its stainless and base your decision on whether or not it is the right size for your needs, ...if it is and the price is right, go for it.


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## radio (Aug 13, 2013)

Oldschool:  No access to a TIG 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Ribwizzard:  Thanks for the input.  The future CC is 18X36 or maybe 48, but definitely 18" in diameter. The price is FREE
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





From the lousy cell phone pic he sent, it appears to be cut at or near the centerline length ways all the way around to open like a clam shell.  Any opinions on whether to try and work with the CC opening like that, or weld it up and make a traditional CC door?


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## ribwizzard (Aug 13, 2013)

Well, it would be easy to weld it up and re-cut,  so once you get it in hand you could see how you want it. The octagon one I acquired was sliced like that as well,  and I really didn't care for it, it made for a very heavy lid.


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## themule69 (Aug 13, 2013)

One thing to concider. You can't drill without stainless bits. Also Need a plasma cutter or will have to saw cut it and will go through a lot of blades.

I'd still use it.

Happy smoken.

David


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## radio (Aug 13, 2013)

themule69 said:


> One thing to concider. You can't drill without stainless bits. Also Need a plasma cutter or will have to saw cut it and will go through a lot of blades.
> 
> I'd still use it.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.  Hadn't realized that.  Thanks for pointing that out


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## boykjo (Aug 13, 2013)

yes you can GTAW (gas tungsten arc welding AKA tig)  stainless to carbon steel. carbon steel has a higher melting point so you will need to heat the carbon side and move over to the stainless. It is not recommended to GMAW (gas metal arc welding  AKA, mig)  stainless and carbon because carbon steel and stainless steel require different inert gas mixes when mig welding but with your application working on a smoker, welding with a mig unit will be adaquate to do the job using 75/25 argon/CO2. Stainless requires tri-mix helium/argon/CO2 using mig.

Joe


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## ribwizzard (Aug 13, 2013)

My stainless wire's all use either 75/25 or 100% C02.   I prefer just using the 75/25


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## black (Aug 13, 2013)

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## shoneyboy (Aug 13, 2013)

Black said:


> I've drilled a lot of  stainless without stainless bits, I used standard HighSpeed (HSS) drill bits ...... when drilling stainless with HSS drill bits the trick is Pilot hole, really sharp bits, drilling slowly, push really hard, and alot of lubrication .
> For lubrication you can use H2O it limits the heat build up in the tip with heat build up the stainless will harden and the HSS drill bit will lose it's temper (soften).


2X's


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## themule69 (Aug 13, 2013)

Black said:


> I've drilled a lot of  stainless without stainless bits, I used standard HighSpeed (HSS) drill bits ...... when drilling stainless with HSS drill bits the trick is Pilot hole, really sharp bits, drilling slowly, push really hard, and alot of lubrication .
> For lubrication you can use H2O it limits the heat build up in the tip with heat build up the stainless will harden and the HSS drill bit will lose it's temper (soften).


I've never had any luck. I can't even get it to make a mark.

David


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## black (Aug 13, 2013)

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## themule69 (Aug 13, 2013)

Black said:


> What was your stainless you're  drilling ? 304?, 316?, 316L?, harder?


unknown car parts


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## ribwizzard (Aug 13, 2013)

I have to start with a very small bit for a pilot hole. I bought a bag full of high speed steel bits at Fastenal a while ago, I dont know the brand but they last about three times as long as say the Milwakee's you get at home depot, and they are cheaper. If you ask me, the titanium and cobalt bits are not worth the money in the smaller sizes becouse they are so stiff when you but pressure on them they snap, so anything under 1/8" I always use high speed steel.


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## black (Aug 13, 2013)

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## radio (Aug 13, 2013)

themule69 said:


> Black said:
> 
> 
> > What was your stainless you're  drilling ? 304?, 316?, 316L?, harder?
> ...


Delorean? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






   I knew a Doctor who bought one of those and always quipped "I'm the only guy in town who washes his car with a Brillo pad"


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## themule69 (Aug 13, 2013)

radio said:


> Delorean?
> 
> 
> 
> ...









nope!        I went with plan B and bought a set of stainless bits. Don't forget the Drill DR to keep them sharp.

David


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## black (Aug 13, 2013)

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## ribwizzard (Aug 13, 2013)

I just bought a 2lb spool of stainless from Praxair .30 and it was $17.00 ,  it was their Prostar house brand wire because they did not have Lincoln Ultracore like I prefer.


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 13, 2013)

myself..  I think it's being over thunk...  :biggrin:   just weld it up and if it cracks..  don't worry about it...  by the time it does crack you will have found something you didn't like with the smoker anyways and want'n to change it... so you just weld the crack up when you make the changes...  LOL


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## dragons breath (Aug 13, 2013)

Well I'm just adding to what's already been said.

LanceR is right about 309 stainless rod. It's made specifically for stainless to mild steel welding. I welded my hitch - stainless tubing to mild steel flat bar and towed my smoker over a thousand miles one trip no problem. There is a lot of stainless on my smoker.

If you're welding stainless to stainless use 308 rod, but the 309 will work here also. After all it's not certified welding, it's just a smoker.

As far as drilling, any bit will do. Just drill slow, keep the drill bit sharp and used lots of cutting fluid. Believe it or not I have drill lots of stainless with Harbour Freight's cheapest Chinese drill bits.

It sounds like the price is right. I would go ahead and use what you got.

Oh yeah post some pictures of you're progress.

Dave


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## radio (Aug 13, 2013)

Dragons Breath said:


> Well I'm just adding to what's already been said.
> 
> LanceR is right about 309 stainless rod. It's made specifically for stainless to mild steel welding. I welded my hitch - stainless tubing to mild steel flat bar and towed my smoker over a thousand miles one trip no problem. There is a lot of stainless on my smoker.
> 
> ...


Hi DB.

Noticed you are from beautiful, crime free, temperate clime and graffiti free Stockton
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





   The wife and i spent 20 years in Modesto and our Son graduated from UOP in mechanical engineering.  He is still out there working for APCCO industrial refrigeration based in Modesto.  He has recently been transferred to San Fran to work in a company that APCCO recently bought out.

I do miss Striper fishing in the Delta, but it sure is nice seeing fields here green in the summer time with no irrigation!  Bought a house on 10 acres here that is way beyond reach out there


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## ribwizzard (Aug 14, 2013)

> myself.. I think it's being over thunk


2nd to that!

I'd say the best way to simply sum it all up is that stainless is a little harder to work with, use can not use a Oxy/acy, torch and cutting with cut off wheels and / or drilling with be more laborious, but as far as welding to mild steel you will not have a problem.

If you are not using 100% stainless steel for the entire construction, the advantages of using this piece are depreciated, and the disadvantage's of the extra labor required are less justified.

But its free..and that is a big advantage, so snag it up and if you can not find anything else that fits what it is your trying to build, don't let the fact that its stainless intimidate you into not using it,  but at the same time, don't let the fact that it is stainless allow you to glorify the part and to work around something that may alter what you intended to build in the first place.

Regardless, building something like this is labor intensive, its better to take your time and get the right parts for what you want to build instead of working around something that's free. There is nothing more expensive than wasted time!


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## themule69 (Aug 14, 2013)

Ribwizzard said:


> 2nd to that!
> 
> I'd say the best way to simply sum it all up is that stainless is a little harder to work with, use can not use a Oxy/acy, torch and cutting with cut off wheels and / or drilling with be more laborious, but as far as welding to mild steel you will not have a problem.
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums it up. So lets see a build.

Happy smoken.

David


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## dummy que (Aug 14, 2013)

you can weld stainless to mild steel using 7018 it is a low hydrogen series rod you will lose the stainless properties and it will rust in weld zone as for cracking there shod be no problem since you would be using a wood or charcoal fire the temp will come up slow enough that expansion should not be a problem


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## radio (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for all the input guys!

 i hope to get the CC here no later than next week.  Going into our busy season of craft fairs from now until Christmas, so won't have much time to devote to smokin', much less building.

Disabled/retired, so making and selling sterling silver and Turquoise jewelry funds the extra little things.













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## cornbread (Sep 24, 2013)

I have been welding for 25 years and have done that many times with hot rolled and cold rolled black steel to stainless any little buzz box and a good stainless rod will be fine if you are worried about it cracking later I can't see where it would but it is possible. If you are worried about that then take it to a sheet metal shop or any one that works with stainless and aluminum and have them tig weld it with a silicone bronze rod that blends with more metals than people realize and a good tig welder will tell you the same thing


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