# Question regarding Making Jerky



## exhaustedspark (Jul 22, 2011)

While reading the usda standards for making jerky they want to cook first to 160 and then dry.

Has any one done that?

 I myself have only done in a ronco or used the sun or even a light bulb and cardboard box. Never have i or anyone i no of cooked the meat first.

Karl


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## alelover (Jul 22, 2011)

Did the USDA say if it was cured or not? If it doesn't have any cure in it then I can see why you would want to take it to 160.


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## chadinclw (Jul 22, 2011)

It's the government "here to help you". They almost have to stress the 160 for doneness to protect the idiots from poisoning themselves. That's one reason salumi importation is so restricted and creation of charcuterie products is almost a cottage industry here in the US.

This is my opinion and YMMV!!

I usually hot smoke/dry my jerky even when using cure. But that't just the way I do it.


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 22, 2011)

None cured. but i have never used cure for Jerky.

And Sun dried Jerky is the best i have ever tasted. Even if you look up recipes on the net  and the dehydrators i have not found any one using cure. To clarify i do not consider salt to be cure and some times i find people calling it cure. Most recipes i find now have to do with soy sauce and no cure.

Karl


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 22, 2011)

This is what the USDA says. Yes i confirmed it is for raw meat.

Karl

The USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline's current recommendation for making jerky safely is to heat meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F before the dehydrating process. This step assures that any bacteria present will be destroyed by wet heat. But most dehydrator instructions do not include this step, and a dehydrator may not reach temperatures high enough to heat meat to 160 °F.

After heating, maintain a constant dehydrator temperature of 130 to 140 °F during the drying process is important because:

the process must be fast enough to dry food before it spoils; and
it must remove enough water that microorganisms are unable to grow.


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## sqwib (Jul 22, 2011)

You know I'm gonna get flack for this.

I used to marinate hang in a grill and keep the heat as low as possible, no cure, however some of the ingredients vinegar, worcestershire salt, etc.. acts as a cure IMHO.

I have been enjoying jerky for 30 years and never ate any with cure, everyone I knew made it with the typical marinade recipe and dried it out in the oven BELOW 160°

I have never gotten sick.

However, after quite a bit of research I opted to use tenderquick in my jerky.

In the future will I make it without tenderquick or cure? probably, but I will not tell someone else to do it, although I think they would be fine.

I have made Biltong and that's just a hunk of meat marinated and hung in a box at room temperature.


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 22, 2011)

Biltong. That sounds interesting.

Yep i have never heard of cooking the meat first. I have cooked beef sticks on the grill but i never called it jerky. Kind of like the bbq boys did on their vidio. But it does not come out like Jerky to me even though it is good. I think the first Jerkey was with a lite bulb and card board box. I was maybe 12???

Well over 40 yrs ago.

Karl


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## fpnmf (Jul 22, 2011)

SQWIB said:


> You know I'm gonna get flack for this.
> 
> I used to marinate hang in a grill and keep the heat as low as possible, no cure, however some of the ingredients vinegar, worcestershire salt, etc.. acts as a cure IMHO.
> 
> ...


I make it the same way.....no cures until a little recently...

Made a lot of jerky thru the years with my trusty round dehydrator  thang...no sickness ever...

  Craig


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 22, 2011)

fpnmf said:


> I make it the same way.....no cures until a little recently...
> 
> Made a lot of jerky thru the years with my trusty round dehydrator  thang...no sickness ever...
> 
> Craig


Ditto here craig.

Just went through my Eldon's and my Rytek Books and both say to use cure on whole muscle and restructured. I do not know how i have managed to  live so long. Did not wear seat belts and road in the back of a pick up truck and now this. Just lucky i guess.
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I guess learn something every day.

Karl


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## chadinclw (Jul 22, 2011)

With beef and the short marinade, cure, and dry/cook time I don't think crawlies are that big of an issue. I use cure because that's the way I started doing jerky. I think it "helps" the texture some. A buddy make fantastic jerky and uses a hot pepper/soy marinade. He then smokes in his FEC100 to get some color and smoke. He then uses his Excalibur dehydrator to get it where he likes it. He and I both refrigerate our finished product. Cure is probably most important if your trying for "shelf stable" jerky.


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## alelover (Jul 22, 2011)

ExhaustedSpark said:


> Did not wear seat belts and road in the back of a pick up truck and now this. Just lucky i guess.









 X2


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 22, 2011)

ChadInClw said:


> With beef and the short marinade, cure, and dry/cook time I don't think crawlies are that big of an issue. I use cure because that's the way I started doing jerky. I think it "helps" the texture some. A buddy make fantastic jerky and uses a hot pepper/soy marinade. He then smokes in his FEC100 to get some color and smoke. He then uses his Excalibur dehydrator to get it where he likes it. He and I both refrigerate our finished product. Cure is probably most important if your trying for "shelf stable" jerky.


I think the key there is with cure. I am getting a Lem patty/jerky maker and it will be here Monday. It is for reconstituted Jerky and i cant wait. The joys of living in the boon docks. It is in Spokane as we speak and has to go to Colville which is on the north side by 30 miles and then come back to us to deliver. I will be using cure from now on. I love doing jerky and sausage and etc etc.

Karl


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## rich- (Jul 23, 2011)

Karl, Just my 2 bits worth, I do not use any cure in my jerky, I marinade it for up to 24 to 36 hrs, lay the slices out on my smoker racks, sprinkle on some Johnnys seasoning salt and black pepper and it the smoker it goes not to exceed 150 degrees smoker temp.

I leave it in untill it feels and tastes like I want it to and then it comes out to cool to room temp. After it has cooled to room temp, I cover it with a towel, set it in the fridge, and then vacume seal what I don't keep out to eat.

I know I have made close to 150 pounds of jerky since Christmas, I have given it to friends and mailed it to relatives in Utah, to this date, the worst report I got from anyone was my son who ate so much so fast his gout kicked up and he had to deal with that.

Cure if you want to, I never will.

Rich


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 23, 2011)

Rich- said:


> Karl, Just my 2 bits worth, I do not use any cure in my jerky, I marinade it for up to 24 to 36 hrs, lay the slices out on my smoker racks, sprinkle on some Johnnys seasoning salt and black pepper and it the smoker it goes not to exceed 150 degrees smoker temp.
> 
> I leave it in untill it feels and tastes like I want it to and then it comes out to cool to room temp. After it has cooled to room temp, I cover it with a towel, set it in the fridge, and then vacume seal what I don't keep out to eat.
> 
> ...


Wow 150lbs. Do you need my mailing address?/

Yes i have never used cure. I was curious as to how many actually did fallow the USDA standards.

I have not found any yet.

I do a lot of Reconstituted jerky and have never used cure.

Thank you for the input.

Karl


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## sqwib (Jul 26, 2011)

ExhaustedSpark said:


> I think the first Jerkey was with a lite bulb and card board box. I was maybe 12???
> Well over 40 yrs ago.
> 
> Karl


That's how I do biltong


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## alelover (Jul 26, 2011)

After all I've been reading here I may not quit curing my jerky all together but I may try probably cutting it in half. I use TQ so it would lower the salt a bunch too. I only cure it for 1 day anyhow.


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## sunman76 (Jul 26, 2011)

I never used any cure "yet"


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## tjohnson (Jul 26, 2011)

I've never seen a "Jerky Seasoning Kit" that does not contain a package of cure

You may find various recipes that do not contain cure, but are they safe?

You may also just be be lucky not to get sick, or worse, get others sick.

If you "Dry" at low temps, you've got a perfect petri dish for growing bacteria

I've experienced the direct effects of Ecoli, and do not want to go down that path again...EVER!

I will always err on the side of caution!

Todd


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 26, 2011)

TJohnson said:


> I've never seen a "Jerky Seasoning Kit" that does not contain a package of cure
> 
> You may find various recipes that do not contain cure, but are they safe?
> 
> ...




You are correct Todd i have never seen a kit that did not use cure and also the 2 books on jerky and sausage making both use cure. However I just have never know anyone until i started using kits that used cure. I have never used a kit for jerky.

Also remember the majority of ecoli cases in the USA have come from salads. ( this was in a news article by the USDA when we had the big lettuce /Spinach scare)

The instructions and the question is not about using cure it is about following USDA standards for at home not kit raw jerky making. So i am wondering if anyone ever did cook jerky first and then dry. I may try it because i am wondering about the texture etc etc.

Karl


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## tjohnson (Jul 26, 2011)

My dehydrator goes to 160° and that's where I set it, so no need to "Precook"

I also have never made jerky without using cure.

TJ


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 26, 2011)

What brand of  dehydrator do you have. I have the ronco and i do not believe i have ever got it above 145???

I bet its a Excalibur??? Did i win did i win??

Karl


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## tjohnson (Jul 26, 2011)

Nope

http://www.nesco.com/category_449f7...43/product_8667b3bd030d/session_9ac3e5d83ba4/

Works great

TJ


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## sqwib (Jul 28, 2011)

alelover said:


> After all I've been reading here I may not quit curing my jerky all together but I may try probably cutting it in half. I use TQ so it would lower the salt a bunch too. I only cure it for 1 day anyhow.




Remember the ratio for TQ is less for thin sliced meats, I believe it is half (1.5 teaspoon)


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 28, 2011)

I have been reading the instructions for jerky put out by the different dehydrator company's and they do not use cure. In fact they seem to love the cheating way and use soy sauce a lot and the temp settings are never above 160*.  A few only say to 155*

The ones that are set to 160* for the high I would doubt the in reality get the meat to 160*

I will continue to use my trusty Dryer and let the sun do its work without cure.

I guess that is why they call it a guideline. Salt +  Pepper + Garlic + hot pepper= Jerky 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Another Beautiful day in Gods country

Karl


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 28, 2011)

SQWIB said:


> Remember the ratio for TQ is less for thin sliced meats, I believe it is half (1.5 teaspoon)





alelover said:


> After all I've been reading here I may not quit curing my jerky all together but I may try probably cutting it in half. I use TQ so it would lower the salt a bunch too. I only cure it for 1 day anyhow.


For some reason and i do not know where i got this idea from i have always been of the believe that if you did not use the perscribed dose of cure it was a waste of cure.

I would be interested to hear other thoughts on using less cure then called for.

Karl


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## roller (Jul 28, 2011)

I been making jerky for 40+ years and never use any cure...however my maranite does have Soy and Woris^%$#@*&^% sauce in it and I usually marinate in the frig for up to a week...Never had a problem.


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 28, 2011)

Roller said:


> I been making jerky for 40+ years and never use any cure...however my maranite does have Soy and Woris^%$#@*&^% sauce in it and I usually marinate in the frig for up to a week...Never had a problem.


Me 3

I do like drying whole muscle jerky in the sun also.

One thing i just tried out using the summer sausage mix is to roll it out and freeze a little and cut with a pizza cutter into strips to  make jerky with that . Of course that does have cure in it and i thought it tasted great. In fact i ordered the Lem # 22 patty maker just for that reason. I make the reconstructed jerky because i know so many people because of health reasons cannot chew and digest the whole muscle jerky. Turns out great. I still had a whole lot more seasonings to the batch.

Karl


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## sqwib (Jul 28, 2011)

ExhaustedSpark said:


> For some reason and i do not know where i got this idea from i have always been of the believe that if you did not use the perscribed dose of cure it was a waste of cure.
> 
> I would be interested to hear other thoughts on using less cure then called for.
> 
> Karl


That is what I believe.(If I'm gonna use it, I'm gonna use it the recommended way)

Use it as recommended on the package

I am pretty sure its 1 TABLESPOON per Pound of whole muscle meat and half that amount for ground and thin sliced meat.

1.5 teaspoons is a half of a TABLESPOON

3 teaspoons = a TABLESPOON

Theres more to using cure with other types of meats and such, but since this is directed at Jerky, I 'm gonna leave that


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 28, 2011)

TJohnson said:


> Nope
> 
> http://www.nesco.com/category_449f7...43/product_8667b3bd030d/session_9ac3e5d83ba4/
> 
> ...


Just read the manual on making jerky for this unit and for beef jerky they also only go to 155. even though i think it say 160 on the front control the manual says thermostat high is 155.

However for chicken and other meat besides beef or venison they say to cook in oven to 160.

Interesting.

They even mention that you are drying without cooking.

Karl


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 28, 2011)

SQWIB said:


> That is what I believe.(If I'm gonna use it, I'm gonna use it the recommended way)
> 
> Use it as recommended on the package
> 
> ...


Do to TBI i cannot remember that stuf so i realy follow the instructions i have printed out and use. I will read probably 3 or 4 time before finely putting it all together. Not to mention  the boss she helps a whole lot.

I will be using my scale quit a bit though.

Makes me feel Professional.

Regarding Jerkey from the sausage mix i am glad i used the kit because it does have some pork.

Karl


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## Bearcarver (Jul 28, 2011)

SQWIB said:


> That is what I believe.(If I'm gonna use it, I'm gonna use it the recommended way)
> 
> Use it as recommended on the package
> 
> ...


That's what the newest Morton book has (8/05), except for the thinly sliced for Jerky.

They have 1 TBS (1/2 ounce) per pound of whole meat.

1/2 TBS (1.5tsp----1/4 ounce) for ground meat.

But they are still telling to use 1 TBS per pound of thin sliced whole meat for their Jerky Recipe, but then they are only telling you to marinate it for ONE hour.

Then rinse it & take it to 160˚ internal temp.

Before anyone asks me, I don't know how you can accurately  tell the internal temp of something 1/4" or less thick.

Later,

Bear


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 28, 2011)

Bearcarver said:


> That's what the newest Morton book has (8/05), except for the thinly sliced for Jerky.
> 
> They have 1 TBS (1/2 ounce) per pound of whole meat.
> 
> ...


Bear i do not see how it would work for the thin pcs of meat either. However i read you fold over a pc of meat with the temp probe inside.

I have never tried it but that is what i read.

Thank you for the input.

by the way i emailed Morton an hr ago and they wrote back saying they would be happy to send me a book. Fast and pleasant service.

Karl

Happy smokin


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## meateater (Jul 28, 2011)




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## exhaustedspark (Jul 29, 2011)

meateater said:


>


Still taking a freezer Nap. Actually this discussion is about "To cure or not to cure. That is the question."  Waiting for Lem to get me the correct #22 attachment for the sticks and jerky. Reconstructed that is.

Karl


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 29, 2011)

ExhaustedSpark said:


> Still taking a freezer Nap. Actually this discussion is about "To cure or not to cure. That is the question."  Waiting for Lem to get me the correct #22 attachment for the sticks and jerky. Reconstructed that is.
> 
> Karl


Actually even more then that.  It also is about proper temp as according to USDA and most if not all of the Dehydrator company's.

Interesting different of recommended temp.

Even the drying units that have 160* on the control say in the manual that the temp is only 155*

VERRRRY Interesting.

I think i am of the opinion now that we have this discussion going that i will use the cure when i have any thing other then Beef in my Jerky. And i will trust the unit to do what they say it will do even though it does not agree with USDA.

I figure if i die i can sue ronco.  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





If i come back as a cow i will be a rich cow.

Karl


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## roller (Jul 29, 2011)

Bear just stack the 1/4 in. pieces on top of one another then stick the probe in...
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





  I have always wanted to make jerky the old fashion way by air drying it and I think right now would be the time to do it with these temps the way they have been lately...


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 29, 2011)

TJohnson said:


> Nope
> 
> http://www.nesco.com/category_449f7...43/product_8667b3bd030d/session_9ac3e5d83ba4/
> 
> ...


I asked Nesco why the difference on the control and manual for temp. Here is there answer.

The FD-80 goes to 160. The manual is a generic manual sent out with all temp control units.
All of the jerky seasoning come with spice & cure pkgs. (25pk comes with 25 spices pkgs & 25cure pkgs.)
Shannon
Customer Service Representative
Nesco - American Harvest

Thanx Todd for the link.

Karl


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## exhaustedspark (Jul 29, 2011)

Roller said:


> Bear just stack the 1/4 in. pieces on top of one another then stick the probe in...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You will not regret making sun jerky. Something about just tastes good.

Happy drying.

Karl


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## tsulcoski (Aug 5, 2011)

Been making my jerky in a smoke house for years!!!  No cure, no sodium nitrite, just marinate for 48 hours. set the temp in the smoke house to 175 degrees, which gets the jerky to 150, add smoke all day until it is dry but not brittle. It give it a nice natural wood flavor and it dries under heat.


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