# Why so sweet?



## Nathanman (Jun 28, 2018)

hi guys,

I’m brand new to smoking (so much so that my smoker came today and it’s not built yet) and wanted to ask about the use of sugar in rubs. I’m a chef by trade and having checked out some rub recipes noticed they all have large amounts of sugar. I would never normally use this much sugar when cooking meats so wanted to ask if there is a reason it’s used in these quantities(tenderness etc) or if it’s just the flavour it imparts? Don’t get me wrong, I’m going to try these rubs but wanted to ask if anyone uses less sweet rubs?


----------



## bregent (Jun 28, 2018)

Some folks use a lot of sugar, some use a little, some use none. Even a rub that has a lot of sugar does not make the meat taste sweet at all when you are talking about large cuts. For brisket I don't use any sugar. For pork it's usually a rub that has up to 30% sugar.


----------



## crazymoon (Jun 28, 2018)

NM, Adds to flavor and also browning and crust formation


----------



## normanaj (Jun 28, 2018)

Think of it as a slow glazing of the meat.The end result is an incredibly crispy bark in many cases.Much depends on type of smoker and time/temp the meat is being cooked.That and type of meat.

I personally do not use sugar based rubs in most smokes.For me the end result is taste and I still get an excellent bark if this is what I want for a particular meat,time and temp are the biggest factors to consider.


----------



## tallbm (Jun 28, 2018)

Nathanman said:


> hi guys,
> 
> I’m brand new to smoking (so much so that my smoker came today and it’s not built yet) and wanted to ask about the use of sugar in rubs. I’m a chef by trade and having checked out some rub recipes noticed they all have large amounts of sugar. I would never normally use this much sugar when cooking meats so wanted to ask if there is a reason it’s used in these quantities(tenderness etc) or if it’s just the flavour it imparts? Don’t get me wrong, I’m going to try these rubs but wanted to ask if anyone uses less sweet rubs?



I don't use sugar in any of my "rubs".  Heck I don't even call my seasoning a "rub" because my seasoning is not a super elaborate and concocted type of thing.  I'm simple using Salt, Pepper, Onion, and Garlic (SPOG) as the main portion of my seasoning.  I add what is needed to then go for Mexican, Cajun, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. etc. flavor but 99% of the time the SPOG is the base of the seasoning.

NOW, when it comes to CURING I will add sugar as that is a different story and all of the sugar doesn't even make it in to the meat.  
I will add sugar also when marinating for certain flavors like Korean Bulgogi marinade.
However, I never add anything but Salt and Water when I am BRINING something like poultry.  I add the rest of the seasonings (minus the salt) when cooking/smoking brined meat.  I honestly don't feel it is necessary to add anything but salt to a brine if you are just going to season it later anyhow.

That's basically my seasoning break down.  It is simple yet produces AMAZING results! :)


----------



## motocrash (Jun 28, 2018)

Welcome from Virginia Nathan. All of the above are great answers to your questions. I have nothing to add that wouldn't be reiterating them.:D


----------



## Nathanman (Jun 28, 2018)

Thanks guys, your answers go a long way to explaining my question. As it seems to be a flavour thing rather than anything else, I may stick with no or low sugar seasonings to start with.


----------



## kruizer (Jun 28, 2018)

The only time I use sugar is on ribs and then it is brown sugar which adds flavor and glaze.


----------



## SparkyLB (Jun 28, 2018)

Sugar is very highly desirable IMO, but for long cooks is necessarily excluded lest one desires a thick bark akin to leather.  

Sugar is very desirable, but IMO must be added at the beginning in SCANT amounts; then towards the end either in the form of brown sugar under a wrap, with honey and butter; or in the way of BBQ sauce--but only in the last 20 minutes or so.  Chef as you are; (I have a culinary degree myself) you know full well that sugar burns something awful.  It must be added either judiciously, or timely.  Either add almost none if it's the beginning, or add as much as you want as long it's nearing the end.  Anything else would be uncivilized.  :)  Sorry, stole that last sentence from an Old Spice commercial.


----------



## heatman (Jun 28, 2018)

I use sugar because it balances the heat of my rub. Chili powder, cayenne, black pepper, etc. Sweet and Heat


----------



## chilerelleno (Jun 28, 2018)

Most of us smoking meats with rubs containing sugar are not going to attain the average 350° temp needed to scorch, burn or otherwise carbonize the sugar and wind up with that nasty burnt sugar nightmare.
We're normally cooking well under 350° with indirect heat and are good to go with sugary rubs.
We can for example, rub a Butt and slow cook it for 8-12 hours or more, and not end up with a leather bound hunk of meat.

Our aim with the sugar is caramelisation for color which compliments browning, a lightly sweet nutty flavor which is generally somewhat lost in the spices/herbs of our rubs and formation of a highly desirable crust that most of us refer to as Bark.

Bark, mmmmmm yum.
I love a thick bark with a nice chew, all that flavor from the rub, the browning and the meat's juices concentrated into a layer of deliciousness that can start family and friends to feuding over who gets it.
LoL... At my house, the cook gets first dibs.


----------



## tktplz (Jun 28, 2018)

Bark, mmmmmm yum.

OK.....that's a rap. That's all that needs to be said about the sugar.


----------



## TomKnollRFV (Jun 28, 2018)

I believe Chile and Tallbm have nailed this one.

<Also funny how that extra special bit every one wants disappears and the cook has the knowing grin am I right?>


----------



## chilerelleno (Jun 28, 2018)

TomKnollRFV said:


> I believe Chile and Tallbm have nailed this one.
> 
> <Also funny how that extra special bit every one wants disappears and the cook has the knowing grin am I right?>


Crazymoon answered it best in a nutshell.
Everyone else and myself just went a little further.


----------



## noboundaries (Jun 28, 2018)

Pork: I'll use a little brown sugar, but not as much as I've seen in some recipes. If you are serving pork ribs to little kids old enough to eat them without help, sprinkle the finished ribs with a little raw sugar just as they are served. The sugar has to be the one with the larger crystals. Kids will think you keep company with Santa Claus! And don't be surprised if teenagers/college kids who see you do it want it on their ribs, too.

Chicken and beef: rarely use sugar of any type.


----------



## chopsaw (Jun 28, 2018)

Nathanman said:


> Thanks guys, your answers go a long way to explaining my question. As it seems to be a flavour thing rather than anything else, I may stick with no or low sugar seasonings to start with.


Well like Crazy Moon said color and crust is a big part of it also . Looks like you are in St. Charles ? Not far from me .


----------



## Nathanman (Jun 29, 2018)

Some great and informative answers, it's all becoming clear, thank you. 

Chopsaw, I'm in the Surrey Hills in the UK, just outside Guildford specifically.


----------



## chopsaw (Jun 29, 2018)

Nathanman said:


> I'm in the Surrey Hills in the UK


I clicked on your location it said 19 minutes away St. Charles Missouri . I was going to tell you a good market to get rubs the guy makes . I bet you wont want to come that far .


----------



## Nathanman (Jun 29, 2018)

Lol, it's a long walk.


----------



## SparkyLB (Jun 29, 2018)

Honestly, I'm a newcomer to this forum, and argumentative is the LAST thing I want to come across as being--but I have to politely disagree with the statement that 350F will not burn sugar.  Sugar's hard-ball stage is 250F and about 15 degrees higher.  That makes hard candy if that's the intention.  Anyways; I've tried a few iterations of sugar ratio to temperature.  I never cook above 250F (at least not intentionally), if I make a rub that's more than 20% or so sugar and the cook exceeds a few hours (which it always does) it's never turned out well. 

So, the initial rub IMO should not contain more than about 20% sugar.  When the cook is nearly done, add as much as you like.  The bark will be softer, sweeter, and of higher quality--this is just in my experience; so take it with a grain of salt.  Oh, wait, we're talking about sugar.  :)

My best barbecue (LOW and SLOW) is achieved with minimal sugar in the rub, followed by all the sugar I desire; but NEVER before the 1/2 hour 'till done mark.  Sauce it when it's near done, sprinkle it with sugar when it's near done, and you'll never experience burn. 

The only exception is the 3-2-1 method for ribs, where the sugar is wrapped in a vapor sealed foil package at 250F with honey and butter, and the two hours at that temperature never seem to caramelize anything, because there's apple juice, vinegar, and other liquids in there that mitigate burning. 

Just one guy's opinion.  Don't commence a cook with more than 15 or 20% sugar.  The end result will yield a thick, chewy, FAR too crusty bark.  To my taste, this ruins the final product.


----------



## chilerelleno (Jun 29, 2018)

Sparky,
who said 350" won't burn sugar?
That's not what I said


----------



## SparkyLB (Jun 29, 2018)

chilerelleno said:


> Sparky,
> who said 350" won't burn sugar?
> That's not what I said



We're normally cooking well under 350° with indirect heat and are good to go with sugary rubs.
We can for example, rub a Butt and slow cook it for 8-12 hours or more, and not end up with a leather bound hunk of meat.

That's correct.  It's not what you said.  Or anyone else, I'm only generalizing.  If one is to use sugar liberally, one should stay well below 275F.  Personally, I don't go above 250 if I can help it.  The Pitts & Spitts that's due at my door by mid-July should straighten out any stray I've had in the past from exceeding 250F.  My Visions Kamado has been known to gradually rise in temp when cook times go beyond 12 hours.  

That's ALL I'm sayin'.


----------



## chopsaw (Jun 29, 2018)

SparkyLB said:


> It's not what you said. Or anyone else,



So no reason to disagree ?


----------



## chilerelleno (Jun 29, 2018)

> ...but I have to politely disagree with the statement that 350F will not burn sugar.





> That's correct. It's not what you said. Or anyone else, I'm only generalizing.


LMAO... So you're disagreeing with no one over something that was never said?
You're good for a giggle that's for sure.


----------



## SparkyLB (Jun 30, 2018)

Sorry, chile.  I read your first post too fast, and misread.  My second post was an attempt to be polite, and in so doing contradicted myself and looked foolish.  Glad to provide you with a giggle.  It's good to be happy.


----------



## chilerelleno (Jun 30, 2018)

SparkyLB said:


> Sorry, chile.  I read your first post too fast, and misread.  My second post was an attempt to be polite, and in so doing contradicted myself and looked foolish.  Glad to provide you with a giggle.  It's good to be happy.


And make no mistake, everything from me including the giggle was of good nature.
I'm a [email protected]$$, but not of ill intent.


----------



## chopsaw (Jun 30, 2018)

SparkyLB said:


> contradicted myself and looked foolish.


You could run for President !
( sorry couldn't help it )


----------



## chilerelleno (Jun 30, 2018)

Bwhahahaha... Dammit man!


----------



## SparkyLB (Jun 30, 2018)

chopsaw said:


> You could run for President !
> ( sorry couldn't help it )



My name is SparkyLB, and I approve this message.


----------

