# Brisket stall at 110 degrees?



## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

I'm smoking my second brisket today. Put it on about midnight and watched the temp rise normally for a couple of hours then went to bed. According get to my leave-in thermometer it got to 110 about three hours ago and plateaued. It's now at 114...checked it with my Thermapen and that's correct. I'm cooking in my ME40 and had it at 245 degrees. I just cranked it to 275 to see if I could stimulate it. I thought the stall was at about 150; I know every piece of meat is different but has anyone seen it this low?


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## robcava (May 30, 2015)

No. That is unusually low.... Strange, you are changing physics lol. Can't argue with what you see with your own eyes tho. I would've said your thermometer isn't working but you double checked that. I'll be curious to see if you hit the stall in the normal range too.


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## daveomak (May 30, 2015)

Do you have water in the water pan.....


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

No I had read that it could make the bark soft so I left the water pan empty.


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

I injected it with beef broth but that shouldn't affect it right? It was behaving fine for the first couple of hours and started to get wonky when I fell asleep. This has got to affect the stall time too...all that extra cook time should theoretically shorten it I would think.  I will probably foil it if I can get it to 150.


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

An hour after I bumped the temp in the smoker up and it's now climbing again at a similar rate that it was last night. Got it to 122 now. I'm curious to see what happens when it gets to the stall zone.


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

12 hours in and I am still only at 141. I am going to foil it and see if it will get going.


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## oldschoolbbq (May 30, 2015)

Patience , it works every time. . The jumping temp. will rush it , but I enjoy the time in my Bana.


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## demosthenes9 (May 30, 2015)

Something is waaaaay off.  Your brisket should be well beyond this point 12 hours in, even if it was frozen when you started.   How are you measuring chamber temp ?


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## robcava (May 30, 2015)

That's what I'm thinking too!  How big and thick is this brisket? Maybe if it's a monster packers cut....


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## demosthenes9 (May 30, 2015)

robcava said:


> That's what I'm thinking too! How big and thick is this brisket? Maybe if it's a monster packers cut....


It would have to be some stupidly sized dino brisket.   When I cook PR's, they are 5 inches thick and they go from 40-140 in around 5 hours at 225 degrees.   The therm on the MES has to be off significantly.  While the set temp was 245, my best estimation is that the chamber temp was probably down under 200 degrees.


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## robcava (May 31, 2015)

What happened w it jstylzz?


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## jstylzz (Jun 7, 2015)

Sorry...I completely forgot to follow up on this.  I finally pulled the brisket after it had been in the smoker for 10+ hours and hadn't cracked 140 IT.  I wrapped it and put it in the oven and the temp shot up and it finished on time for a rest and the brisket went great.  I checked the temp of the grates with my Thermapen (not an exact reading, I know) and it was only like 140 degrees.  So I think it's an issue with the thermostat on my ME40 or maybe the heating element.  I talked to them and they are sending me a replacement part now.  At least I now know why it wasn't coming up to temp!


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 7, 2015)

Glad you got it figured out.  Hope the replacement part fixes the issue !


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## jstylzz (Jun 7, 2015)

Yep.  I think you were spot on with your earlier post .


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 7, 2015)

jstylzz said:


> Yep.  I think you were spot on with your earlier post .


Yeah.  As Robcava said, you were defying the laws of physics if the chamber temp had been in the correct range, so that pretty much had to be the problem.


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## timh (Jun 7, 2015)

Is that safe to eat? I thought meat needed to reach temp to 140 in four hours to kill the bacteria?


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 8, 2015)

TimH said:


> Is that safe to eat? I thought meat needed to reach temp to 140 in four hours to kill the bacteria?


You'll get differences of opinion on that question Tim.   It's my understanding/belief that 40-140 does not apply the same way to intact pieces of meat.  The reasoning is that the bacteria would only be on the surface of the meat and the exposure to the chamber temps will kill it pretty quickly, depending on how hot the chamber is.    By that I mean that the sterilization is a combination of temperature and time.   Just making up numbers as an example, because I'm too lazy to find the actual charts right now, but say that in a 200 degree oven, the bacteria will be killed instantly.  At 180, it would take 3 mins.  At 160 it might take 10 mins.  At 140, it might take 30 mins. 

An inverse way to picture this is to think about walking out in the cold without a jacket or coat.  If it's 40 degrees outside, you could probably stand it for 20 mins.  If it's 20 degrees, you might last 10 mins.   If it's 0 degrees, you might last 2 mins, etc, etc. etc.


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## stovebolt (Jun 8, 2015)

Demosthenes9 said:


> You'll get differences of opinion on that question Tim.   It's my understanding/belief that 40-140 does not apply the same way to intact pieces of meat.  The reasoning is that the bacteria would only be on the surface of the meat and the exposure to the chamber temps will kill it pretty quickly, depending on how hot the chamber is.    By that I mean that the sterilization is a combination of temperature and time.   Just making up numbers as an example, because I'm too lazy to find the actual charts right now, but say that in a 200 degree oven, the bacteria will be killed instantly.  At 180, it would take 3 mins.  At 160 it might take 10 mins.  At 140, it might take 30 mins.
> 
> An inverse way to picture this is to think about walking out in the cold without a jacket or coat.  If it's 40 degrees outside, you could probably stand it for 20 mins.  If it's 20 degrees, you might last 10 mins.   If it's 0 degrees, you might last 2 mins, etc, etc. etc.


  The post said the brisket was injected with beef broth, so that needed to be considered too. Not the same as intact whole muscle.

Chuck.


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 8, 2015)

stovebolt said:


> The post said the brisket was injected with beef broth, so that needed to be considered too. Not the same as intact whole muscle.
> 
> Chuck.


Good point.   That could/would change things.


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

I'm smoking my second brisket today. Put it on about midnight and watched the temp rise normally for a couple of hours then went to bed. According get to my leave-in thermometer it got to 110 about three hours ago and plateaued. It's now at 114...checked it with my Thermapen and that's correct. I'm cooking in my ME40 and had it at 245 degrees. I just cranked it to 275 to see if I could stimulate it. I thought the stall was at about 150; I know every piece of meat is different but has anyone seen it this low?


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## robcava (May 30, 2015)

No. That is unusually low.... Strange, you are changing physics lol. Can't argue with what you see with your own eyes tho. I would've said your thermometer isn't working but you double checked that. I'll be curious to see if you hit the stall in the normal range too.


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## daveomak (May 30, 2015)

Do you have water in the water pan.....


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

No I had read that it could make the bark soft so I left the water pan empty.


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

I injected it with beef broth but that shouldn't affect it right? It was behaving fine for the first couple of hours and started to get wonky when I fell asleep. This has got to affect the stall time too...all that extra cook time should theoretically shorten it I would think.  I will probably foil it if I can get it to 150.


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

An hour after I bumped the temp in the smoker up and it's now climbing again at a similar rate that it was last night. Got it to 122 now. I'm curious to see what happens when it gets to the stall zone.


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## jstylzz (May 30, 2015)

12 hours in and I am still only at 141. I am going to foil it and see if it will get going.


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## oldschoolbbq (May 30, 2015)

Patience , it works every time. . The jumping temp. will rush it , but I enjoy the time in my Bana.


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## demosthenes9 (May 30, 2015)

Something is waaaaay off.  Your brisket should be well beyond this point 12 hours in, even if it was frozen when you started.   How are you measuring chamber temp ?


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## robcava (May 30, 2015)

That's what I'm thinking too!  How big and thick is this brisket? Maybe if it's a monster packers cut....


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## demosthenes9 (May 30, 2015)

robcava said:


> That's what I'm thinking too! How big and thick is this brisket? Maybe if it's a monster packers cut....


It would have to be some stupidly sized dino brisket.   When I cook PR's, they are 5 inches thick and they go from 40-140 in around 5 hours at 225 degrees.   The therm on the MES has to be off significantly.  While the set temp was 245, my best estimation is that the chamber temp was probably down under 200 degrees.


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## robcava (May 31, 2015)

What happened w it jstylzz?


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## jstylzz (Jun 7, 2015)

Sorry...I completely forgot to follow up on this.  I finally pulled the brisket after it had been in the smoker for 10+ hours and hadn't cracked 140 IT.  I wrapped it and put it in the oven and the temp shot up and it finished on time for a rest and the brisket went great.  I checked the temp of the grates with my Thermapen (not an exact reading, I know) and it was only like 140 degrees.  So I think it's an issue with the thermostat on my ME40 or maybe the heating element.  I talked to them and they are sending me a replacement part now.  At least I now know why it wasn't coming up to temp!


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 7, 2015)

Glad you got it figured out.  Hope the replacement part fixes the issue !


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## jstylzz (Jun 7, 2015)

Yep.  I think you were spot on with your earlier post .


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 7, 2015)

jstylzz said:


> Yep.  I think you were spot on with your earlier post .


Yeah.  As Robcava said, you were defying the laws of physics if the chamber temp had been in the correct range, so that pretty much had to be the problem.


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## timh (Jun 7, 2015)

Is that safe to eat? I thought meat needed to reach temp to 140 in four hours to kill the bacteria?


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 8, 2015)

TimH said:


> Is that safe to eat? I thought meat needed to reach temp to 140 in four hours to kill the bacteria?


You'll get differences of opinion on that question Tim.   It's my understanding/belief that 40-140 does not apply the same way to intact pieces of meat.  The reasoning is that the bacteria would only be on the surface of the meat and the exposure to the chamber temps will kill it pretty quickly, depending on how hot the chamber is.    By that I mean that the sterilization is a combination of temperature and time.   Just making up numbers as an example, because I'm too lazy to find the actual charts right now, but say that in a 200 degree oven, the bacteria will be killed instantly.  At 180, it would take 3 mins.  At 160 it might take 10 mins.  At 140, it might take 30 mins. 

An inverse way to picture this is to think about walking out in the cold without a jacket or coat.  If it's 40 degrees outside, you could probably stand it for 20 mins.  If it's 20 degrees, you might last 10 mins.   If it's 0 degrees, you might last 2 mins, etc, etc. etc.


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## stovebolt (Jun 8, 2015)

Demosthenes9 said:


> You'll get differences of opinion on that question Tim.   It's my understanding/belief that 40-140 does not apply the same way to intact pieces of meat.  The reasoning is that the bacteria would only be on the surface of the meat and the exposure to the chamber temps will kill it pretty quickly, depending on how hot the chamber is.    By that I mean that the sterilization is a combination of temperature and time.   Just making up numbers as an example, because I'm too lazy to find the actual charts right now, but say that in a 200 degree oven, the bacteria will be killed instantly.  At 180, it would take 3 mins.  At 160 it might take 10 mins.  At 140, it might take 30 mins.
> 
> An inverse way to picture this is to think about walking out in the cold without a jacket or coat.  If it's 40 degrees outside, you could probably stand it for 20 mins.  If it's 20 degrees, you might last 10 mins.   If it's 0 degrees, you might last 2 mins, etc, etc. etc.


  The post said the brisket was injected with beef broth, so that needed to be considered too. Not the same as intact whole muscle.

Chuck.


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## demosthenes9 (Jun 8, 2015)

stovebolt said:


> The post said the brisket was injected with beef broth, so that needed to be considered too. Not the same as intact whole muscle.
> 
> Chuck.


Good point.   That could/would change things.


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