# Cold smoking sausages in Australia in Bradely smoker need advice to avoid nasties please.



## bandyka (Dec 5, 2014)

Hello Good People,

So we have decided to make some Hungarian style "Csabai" sausages. All went well its been a great success on the BBQ and grill but now we are onto the next stage, smoking.

We have a bradley smoker and have produced some great results but never tried cold smoking sausages. 
We have the cold smoking attachment and using ice packs to keep the temperature low it is currently about 12C degrees and approx 26 outside so all is well as by the ancient recipe from my grand parents it needs to be between 12-24C which I never allowed to go over not matter how hot outside.

So far the sausages had 3 x 3 hour session and progressing well. They are stored in a dedicated fridge for drying and only taken out for the smoking periods. 

The only issue I am facing is humidity while it never goes above the maximum allowed 85% the problem is with condensation as the internal temperature very slowly rises and the outside temperature is much warmer naturally condensation occurs which in turn produces a humid environment inside the smoker. Now I understand this is good conditions for nasties to develop in the meat. We have cured the meat using salt plus pink salt but I am still a little concerned as usually in the 3rd hour into the session the sausages look sweaty there are water drops on them. I pet them dry and they go back to the fridge so temperatures never reach critical but could this be a problem? Also noticed empty spots under the skin as the sausages dry only on one piece so far.

I just want be sure we are safe.

Many thanks in advance.


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## bandyka (Dec 5, 2014)

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This how they look after the 4th 3 hour session.


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## JckDanls 07 (Dec 5, 2014)

Wowww...  first time seeing this method....  

 :110:


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## bandyka (Dec 5, 2014)

first time trying it:)


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## bandyka (Dec 5, 2014)

according to the ancient recipe it needs to dry in a cold place than into the smoker for a few hours and repeat as long as necessary but min three times. Smoke can be intensified the drier it gets.


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## dingo007 (Dec 6, 2014)

If the recipe has cure in it..go ahead and smoke it...if no cure...you're dancing with the danger.....for humidity control try a pizza pan covered in dry rice..

HTH


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## crazymoon (Dec 6, 2014)

They look great ! yes you need some cure .


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## bandyka (Dec 6, 2014)

thanks guys, as mentioned it has cure in it which is pink salt but approx 10%less than the recipe suggested as that's all we had so instead of 75gramms it has about 65g or so. I am feeling it should be fine but better be safe we mixed it very thoroughly.


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## wade (Dec 7, 2014)

It does not look like you will have a problem however it is impossible to advise further without knowing the final Ppm of cure in the sausage.

I think the biggest problem causing the moisture is the lack of air flow in the fridge. In curing chambers you need to control the temperature and the humidity but you do also need some constant air flow as well so that excess moisture can be removed. 

Which cure did you use (#1 or #2) and what was the resulting Ppm of Nitrate and Nitrite. Csabai is also usually a fermented sausage so did you use a culture? Providing you had sufficient Nitrite and the culture had reduced the pH of the sausage sufficiently, the casings will form a natural barrier and the smoke will help protect from the outside while the cures and culture will do their job inside. As the internal free moisture content drops the bacterial risk becomes even further reduced.

Try to minimise the condensation in the fridge as much as you can. If you do see droplets forming on the sausage then wipe them off. If you see any mold forming then that can also be wiped off with a diluted vinegar solution. Do try to get a little air flow in that fridge though.

I hope this helps


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## bandyka (Dec 7, 2014)

Thanks for the detailed answer unfortunately I do not know the Ppm as I bought it form a butcher after explained what  I was going to do he gave me pink salt and am pretty sure it is #1.

I am using a Bradley so additional airflow is near impossible however the went is open. I figured if I put ice packs on top and bottom it keeps the temperature pretty constant for a bout 3 hours so moisture is minimal I wipe them off before they go back in the fridge. In the fridge they keep drying very nicely. Guess I ma just being overly cautious but better be safe.


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## bandyka (Dec 7, 2014)

and no, Csabai does not need a culture my grandparents are from that town "Csaba" and been making sausages for centuries and never used any culture. The recipe is Paprika, salt, pepper, and garlic, some use carraway as well. That's it.They do not use and extra cure either they know when exactly and how exactly to salt and smoke so they never have any issues but that is of course in their blood over hundreds of years of experience as opposed to me its a whole different ballgame here in AUS.

Cheers


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## bandyka (Dec 7, 2014)

A little comparison below first image is how mine look after about  5 x 3 hours of smoke and the 2nd image is theirs just made a few days ago. Trying to figure why mine do not look as shiny and ripe.


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## bandyka (Dec 7, 2014)

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__ bandyka
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## brican (Dec 7, 2014)

bandyka said:


> A little comparison below first image is how mine look after about  5 x 3 hours of smoke and the 2nd image is theirs just made a few days ago. Trying to figure why mine do not look as shiny and ripe.


One of your big problems is by putting the sausage into refrigerator you are creating a problem ... 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Each time you take them out and place them in a warm atmosphere they will sweat and will not take smoke until dry

Hang overnight in a room where the temperature dose not exceed 40 degrees F .. this will help keeping them dry for the next smoke .. You have no problem doing this as you are using cure and so long as you have used the right amount you are safe and good to go 

I do this all the time cold smoking bacon


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## bandyka (Dec 7, 2014)

thanks I suspected that so that's why the smoke does not "stick" to them?! I'd love to do that but unfortunately its summer here and no way I can ensure those low temperatures. What can I do with them in this is the case? Is the only option to eat them as is when they are dry enough or do I have to chuck them out and wait for winter? They do dry nicely in the fridge though once temperatures are steady.


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## wade (Dec 8, 2014)

bandyka said:


> Thanks for the detailed answer unfortunately I do not know the Ppm as I bought it form a butcher after explained what  I was going to do he gave me pink salt and am pretty sure it is #1.


I know we all like to trust the professionals however using cure without knowing what it is and exactly it is and what is in it is not a good idea. If you take a look at my recent post about purchased cures you will see that sometimes even the cure manufacturers can make mistakes http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/173060/cure-ingredient-update. When you know what is in it it is very easy to calculate the final Ppm and adds additional confidence when you are giving it to friends to eat.


bandyka said:


> and no, Csabai does not need a culture my grandparents are from that town "Csaba" and been making sausages for centuries and never used any culture. The recipe is Paprika, salt, pepper, and garlic, some use carraway as well. That's it.They do not use and extra cure either they know when exactly and how exactly to salt and smoke so they never have any issues but that is of course in their blood over hundreds of years of experience as opposed to me its a whole different ballgame here in AUS.
> 
> Cheers


Most of the recipes I have seen for Csabai have classed it as a fermented sausage but I have not tried to make it myself. Hearing what you say I will remember to omit the culture when I do try to make it 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	






bandyka said:


> A little comparison below first image is how mine look after about  5 x 3 hours of smoke and the 2nd image is theirs just made a few days ago. Trying to figure why mine do not look as shiny and ripe.


I think it is all to do with the rate it is drying. Yours are effectively remaining in a closed container both in the smoker and in the fridge, whereas it looks as if theirs are in a room which will allow much greater movement of air around them.


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## bandyka (Dec 8, 2014)

Yes I agree on the "making sure part" of the cure but I could not find it anywhere else, they use that for their sausages so it should be good as they sell tons. I will visit them again and ask whats in it exactly.

 yes correct about the room and fridge but I have no choice I am afraid so the question is, is it a futile attempt or will just take much longer?


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## brican (Dec 8, 2014)

bandyka said:


> thanks I suspected that so that's why the smoke does not "stick" to them?! I'd love to do that but unfortunately its summer here and no way I can ensure those low temperatures.
> 
> What is your low temperature ... I have a very good friend in Queensland who makes these all the time
> 
> ...


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## bandyka (Dec 8, 2014)

That would be great if you could! Lowest temperature I can get is well below 10C with ice packs the gauge on the Bradley gets stuck at the bottom which is 10C but rises to about 15-20 in three hours or so. Its way too hot now to put them anywhere outside.

Hope you can get some info from the QLD friend.

Is it safe to taste meanwhile??


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## brican (Dec 8, 2014)

bandyka said:


> That would be great if you could! Lowest temperature I can get is well below 10C with ice packs the gauge on the Bradley gets stuck at the bottom which is 10C but rises to about 15-20 in three hours or so. Its way too hot now to put them anywhere outside.
> 
> In the middle of summer our temperatures can get to 40C outside .. granted our smoker in inside of a building but the temperature within the cold smokehouse gets to be 33C and we still smoke
> 
> ...


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## bandyka (Dec 8, 2014)

great thanks well than I will try without the ice packs tonight or tomorrow and see what turns out, Would be great to hear from your QLD mate.


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## briankinlaw (Dec 8, 2014)

Those are some fine looking wurst.... I think your problem is the smoker, it just not designed for cold smoking.  Without investing in another smoker... I would isolate the burning compartment from the smoker.  Just make you a fire box about 5 meters away and connect it to the smoker using pipe or that dryer vent flex pipe and this might solve your problem also I would keep the smoker in a area that is shaded all day.


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## bandyka (Dec 8, 2014)

Well thanks for the compliment. Yes you are right the smoker in itself is not designed for cold smoking but if you read carefully I did mention that we have purchased the cold smoking adapter for it so its all good. The problem is humidity as others pointed it out the temperature changes cause condensation every time it comes out of the fridge and into the smoker so the smoke does not stick to it that well. I do not think there is a solution to fix this other than winter (no wonder the old folks only smoke in winter). Anyway we will taste today as they may just be ready but due to humidity it does not look like so and don't want to over smoke them either.


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## briankinlaw (Dec 8, 2014)

Well, I did not mention it but I also only cold smoke during the winter. I do so because you need cold temperatures for curing and I don't have enough refrigerator space for the amount of meat I cure.  Besides, I just like the Old ways.  I did have the same problem once when I was brine curing some pork loins, but I figured it did not hang long enough to get the moisture out.  Anyway.... hope you can solve you problem.. Happy smoking .


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## bandyka (Dec 8, 2014)

Absolutely agree with you. we have decided to stop smoking them chuck them in the freezer and use them for stew etc..

Due to humidity it simply cannot be done they don't take in the smoke properly. The old folks are right it can only be done during winter months.

I hope they did not develop any nasties but I feel they are ok especially as they will be cooked.


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