# Need some Jerky advice



## emuleman (Apr 29, 2018)

I am ready to attempt making some smoked jerky for the first time.  I will be using a Eye of the Round Roast, and am considering doing one half with a cure (Prague Powder #1) and the other half without, so I can do an honest side by side comparison, and see whether using the cure helps the overall flavor of the jerky.

As I look around online at various jerky marinade recipes I am completely overwhelmed.  Seems the basic ingredients consist of Soy Sauce, Worcestershire Sauce, Salt, Pepper and a few other spices.  My biggest concern in not making a Jerky that is too salty, as my Blood Pressure is already high enough, and I don't like things that are overly salty. Most of these recipes call for 1-2 cups of Soy Sauce, and a couple of Tablespoons of Salt for a 5 pound batch. I know that Soy Sauce is very salty, so I am worried about adding to much. 

Does anyone here have a tried and true recipe for jerky that they always use?  Any thoughts on whether using curing salt is necessary or if it will make a big difference in the taste?  I know we have quite a few Jerky experts here, so any advice you can give a first timer would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2018)

When planning on smoking any meat, using cure#1 will prevent botulism...  The deadliest pathogen known to man...


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## wanna-be-smoker (Apr 29, 2018)

I just use Hi mountain seasoning but never looked at ingredients but it comes with easy to use instructions . If i find a flavor thats to salty i just use less seasonings next time. 

https://www.himtnjerky.com/Original-Blend-Jerky-Kit.html


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## emuleman (Apr 29, 2018)

daveomak said:


> When planning on smoking any meat, using cure#1 will prevent botulism...  The deadliest pathogen known to man...



I have used cure #1 many times, bacon, pork tenderloin, turkey and chicken. All with great results.  But I find many people are still uneasy about consuming cured meats, and many say it is not necessary when smoking jerky, providing you cook it to a temperature of 160 degrees.  So my main objective in doing a side by side comparison is to see if their are any benefits besides preventing botulism.  Does it produce a better tasting jerky?  Or is it better to just let the salt from the soy sauce and spices to cure the meat?


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## SmokinAl (Apr 29, 2018)

Honestly I would never make jerky without using cure #1.
Why take the chance?
Al


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2018)

*But I find many people are still uneasy about consuming cured meats*... Ask them how they would like botulism...

*providing you cook it to a temperature of 160 degrees* ...  Well, you are mixing up two separate methods/recipes when it comes to making jerky.... You can cook jerky to 160 then smoke it and botulism will not be slowed down in the least.. That's the problem listening to folks that skip read....  NEVER MIX METHODS / RECIPES ....


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## emuleman (Apr 29, 2018)

So I think you got me convinced to use curing salt, as Al says, why risk it?

So does anyone want to share a good jerky recipe I can try using an eye of the round roast?


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## pa42phigh (Apr 29, 2018)

daveomak said:


> *But I find many people are still uneasy about consuming cured meats*... Ask them how they would like botulism...
> 
> *providing you cook it to a temperature of 160 degrees* ...  Well, you are mixing up two separate methods/recipes when it comes to making jerky.... You can cook jerky to 160 then smoke it and botulism will not be slowed down in the least.. That's the problem listening to folks that skip read....  NEVER MIX METHODS / RECIPES ....


Is the other way,method  your  talking about dehydration?


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## dward51 (Apr 29, 2018)

Although they are called "curing salts" that is sort of a misnomer when talking about cure #1.  The cure is mixed with salt as a carrier as the actual cure is really a small amount of the combined mix.  It's a lot easier (and safer) for a home user to deal with a pre-mixed salt that is fairly easy to measure than a microscopic amount of pure "cure".  

There are other cures out there that have different ratios and actually have more salt in them and are used in higher quantities to get the necessary cure level. Ultimately you are basically getting the same final level of "cure", but it is the mix ratios and sometimes the cure agent that varies.  Tenderquick is an example, and anytime you use that cure, you need to be mindful of the other salt in the recipe.  If the recipe was not designed for tenderquick, you need to cut back on other salts for the same reason.

All that being said, I would *NEVER* make jerky or snack sticks without cure.  Yeah, back in the 1800's they did all sorts of things and most of the time nothing bad happened, but are you willing to take that chance when there is an easy to use, safe, solution?   Plus remember the amount of salt in cure #1 is almost negligible in a recipe (it's a carrier for a cure, and not really a source of "salt" in the recipe).


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## Bearcarver (Apr 29, 2018)

emuleman said:


> So I think you got me convinced to use curing salt, as Al says, why risk it?
> 
> So does anyone want to share a good jerky recipe I can try using an eye of the round roast?




Above & beyond the Safety aspect of it, I personally like the flavor of Jerky more with cure than without.
But then I like Ribs, Butt, Turkey, Chicken, etc, etc, better cured & Smoked than just smoked. "But That's Me".

Bear


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2018)

*Is the other way,method your talking about dehydration?*

Yes....   Dehydration, when making jerky at 140 ish, can leave some pathogens alive...   ALSO, dehydration can leave pathogens "alive" in a suspended animation at warmer temps, only to be revived in a warm, moist environment like your gut...
when dehydrating, you can kill the pathogens by cooking them in the brine mix by heating the meat in the liquid to 165 ish, then resuming the drying process at lower temperatures...  OR, after dehydrating, you can heat the dried product to 275 so any dehydrated pathogens, in suspended animation, are killed...   or something like that... 
The basic device for killing pathogens is...  they need to be moist when heat is applied...
I have read the methods to insure pathogens are killed and the scientists don't always explain WHY and necessary conditions that apply...  HEAT and WET MEAT seems to be the necessary environment to insure death...  slow drying where the liquid slowly evaporates at "below the thermal death curve" for pathogens is not a good thing....


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## emuleman (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks for the information daveomak!  I have been searching online for different jerky recipes, and almost none of them recommend using curing salt. I was under the impression that having the meat soak overnight in a salty marinade would help kill the pathogens. Check out this video of a guy from Australia who didn't even heat his jerky.  He just positioned some fans to blow air over it to dry out. The comments on that video were telling him he needed to heat the jerky to 170 degrees, but he insisted as long as the moisture was drawn out of the beef that it was perfectly fine. He certainly appeared to be knowledgeable, so I am glad you filled me in on the actual facts. Thank you.


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## gmc2003 (Apr 29, 2018)

emuleman said:


> Thanks for the information daveomak!  I have been searching online for different jerky recipes, and almost none of them recommend using curing salt. I was under the impression that having the meat soak overnight in a salty marinade would help kill the pathogens. Check out this video of a guy from Australia who didn't even heat his jerky.  He just positioned some fans to blow air over it to dry out. The comments on that video were telling him he needed to heat the jerky to 170 degrees, but he insisted as long as the moisture was drawn out of the beef that it was perfectly fine. He certainly appeared to be knowledgeable, so I am glad you filled me in on the actual facts. Thank you.




Emuleman, be careful who you listen to. The internet isn't the most trustworthy of resources. Especially when your dealing with your families heath. Good luck with your Jerky. Let us know how you eventually make it and how it turns out. Don't forget about the pic's. Dave knows his stuff and allot of people here have been guided by his knowledge. Some dude from Australia maybe not so much.  

Chris


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2018)

*Why is temperature important when making jerky?* Illnesses due to _Salmonella_ and _E. coli_ O157:H7 from homemade jerky raise questions about the safety of traditional drying methods for making beef and venison jerky. The USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline's current recommendation for making jerky safely is to heat meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F before the dehydrating process. This step assures that any bacteria present will be destroyed by *wet heat*. But most dehydrator instructions do not include this step, and a dehydrator may not reach temperatures high enough to heat meat to 160 °F or 165 °F.
After heating to 160 °F or 165 °F, maintaining a constant dehydrator temperature of 130 to 140 °F during the drying process is important because:

the process must be fast enough to dry food before it spoils; and
it must remove enough water that microorganisms are unable to grow.
*Why is it a food safety concern to dry meat without first heating it to 160 °F?*
The danger in dehydrating meat and poultry without cooking it to a safe temperature first is that the appliance will not heat the meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F — temperatures at which bacteria are destroyed — before the dehydrating process. After drying, bacteria become much more heat resistant.

Within a dehydrator or low-temperature oven, evaporating moisture absorbs most of the heat. Thus, the meat itself does not begin to rise in temperature until most of the moisture has evaporated. Therefore, when the dried meat temperature finally begins to rise, the bacteria have become more heat resistant and are more likely to survive. If these surviving bacteria are pathogenic, they can cause foodborne illness to those consuming the jerky.

Marinating meat doesn't make raw meat safe. "Marination alone did not result in significant reduction of the pathogen compared with whole beef slices that were not marinated," concluded the study.

In the jerky studies, some samples showed total bacterial destruction and other samples showed some bacterial survival — especially the jerky made with ground beef. Further experiments with lab-inoculated venison showed that pathogenic _E. coli_ could survive drying times of up to 10 hours and temperatures of up to 145 °F.

A study by the Harrisons and Ruth Ann Rose, also with the University of Georgia, was published in the January 1998 _Journal of Food Protection_, Vol. 61, No. 1. The authors analyzed ground beef jerky made with a commercial beef jerky spice mixture with and without a curing mix containing salt and sodium nitrite.

Half of the ground beef was inoculated with _E. coli_ O157:H7 before making it into jerky strips and dehydrating it. The authors found that in both the heated and unheated samples, the jerky made with the curing mix had greater destruction of bacteria than jerky made without it. The jerky made with the mix and heated before dehydrating had the highest destruction rate of bacteria.

They concluded, "For ground beef jerky prepared at home, safety concerns related to _E. coli_ O157:H7 are minimized if the meat is precooked to 160 °F prior to drying."

*While you are into the heating process, take the meat to 170 to kill salmonella...  Why not ???*


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## daveomak (Apr 29, 2018)

FWIW....  Air dried meats can be made safe by using techniques when making Biltong...  






* BILTONG
South Africa's answer to jerky*
*Recipe Rating  
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	

























 Rated 4.5 (20 votes). Very Good. Click stars to vote*





*South African Biltong.
A great taste.*
This *TRADITIONAL BILTONG RECIPE* is for the basic South African beef biltong.

It is an interesting tasty and superior alternative to beef jerky. *Like Beef Jerky, Biltong can be produced in various flavors* by adding things like garlic or chilli peppers to the recipe.

Personally, I find the original plain biltong the most enjoyable.
*Biltong Ingredients*
25 lb (11.5kg) beef (top round/sirloin/London broil/ eye of round)
4 pints (2L)warm water
1 ¼ lb (570g) fine salt
½ cup (125ml) brown sugar
½ cup (125ml)coriander, coarsely ground
2 tbsp (30ml) bicarbonate of soda
1 tbsp (15ml) black pepper, ground
1 cup (250ml) red wine vinegar
2 tsp (10ml) saltpetre (optional) *[5 tsp. cure#1 recommended]*
*To make the biltong*
Cut the meat along the natural dividing lines of the muscles of the meat of choice.

Cut into strips of approximately 2-inch (5cm) thick and any desired length, always cutting with the grain.

Mix the salt, sugar, bicarbonate of soda, saltpetre, pepper and coriander together.

Rub the seasoning mixture thoroughly into the strips of meat.

Layer the meat, with the more bulky pieces at the bottom, in a glass or stainless steel container. Sprinkle a little vinegar over each layer, as you add them.  *[Acidic vinegar is an important step in killing pathogens]*

Leave the meat in a cool place for 12 hours or more, depending on how salty you want the meat to be.

(*Some experimentation may be required to ascertain the correct length of time to let the biltong 'marinade' for, according to your taste.)*

Remove the meat from the marinade Mix the water and vinegar and dip the meat into this mixture. This makes the biltong shiny and dark.

Once this is complete, the biltong is ready to dry.

Pat the pieces of meat dry and then hang them up on S-shaped hooks, or use pieces of string, about 2 inches (5cm) apart.

Hang the biltong in a cool to warm, dry place with an oscillating fan blowing on it.

*Ensure that the air is dry, as too much moisture will cause the meat to spoil.*

The biltong is ready when the outside is hard and the center part of the biltong strip is still a little moist.

Let the center dry according to personal taste.

Makes about 21 lb

*BILTONG* is South African dried meat and has been around for centuries.

Any South African will do almost anything to get a share if he/she knows that _BILTONG_ is available.

*Biltong is cut from the "stick" in thin pieces using a very sharp knife.* Some people shave off a number of pieces at a time so they don't have to let cutting interfere with eating.

A professional trick is to place the biltong in a vice and, using a wood plane shave off as many pieces of the desired thickness as required. 

Eaten on its own as an appetiser or all day munch. Especially at sporting events, but anywhere is OK.

Try it, you'll find it much more addictive than peanuts or potato crisps.

The recipe given above is for beef biltong, *but like jerky, biltong may be made using game animals such as Buck and Deer*.

*Ostrich* produces a great tasting but somewhat dry biltong.

*PS. Biltong is not really recommended for unfortunate souls wearing dentures, unless its shaved very thin*

*Enjoy your biltong.*Well, a rather amusing result of my posting this recipe on my site is the amount of rather annoyed correspondence that has resulted.

*Seems that biltong purists have taken great umbrage at my daring to compare South African Biltong with Jerky, beef or otherwise*.

It would appear that true biltong lovers believe that traditional South African Biltong Recipes produce something so superior to Jerky that *Biltong and Jerky shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath, *let alone the same web page.

Hence my daring to suggest that Biltong is a tasty alternative to Jerky has raised considerable ire amongst those who feel, once you've tasted properly made traditional South African Biltong that you'll never be satisfied with Jerky again.


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## dward51 (Apr 29, 2018)

*You could make jerky 50 times without any cure and get away with it. * *Then there is that 51st time....  *

Cure is inexpensive, easy to fine, it only takes a little, it is easy to use, and it does not affect the taste. Why tempt fate?  If you are the only one eating your product that is one thing, but if you share with others, that is another....


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## pa42phigh (Apr 30, 2018)

Wonder why the fda   Continues to allow people to sell jerky to the public with no cure  seem like they are putting people in unnecessary danger


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## tropics (Apr 30, 2018)

Jerky recipe
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/thai-jerky.233270/
Richie


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## GoodRevrnd (May 27, 2018)

So what is actually the best way to safely SMOKE jerky?  Let's see if I have this right...

1) Brine w/ cure -> Hot smoke @ 160*+
2) Brine -> Flash sterilize in 160* brine -> Soak in cold brine w/ added cure -> Cold smoke
3) Brine -> Cold smoke -> Oven heat @ 275* for 10m

I think all of these are safe after reading assorted posts from Dave and ?  Cure breaks down in #1, but enough survives to prevent botulism, temp kills everything else.  Everything is killed in sterilization in #2 except botulism spores, second cure soak prevents botulism during smoke.  #3 seems iffy, but oven step should kill everything, including botulism spores and toxin.  Concern is there's been a lot of time for pathogens to flare up.  Seems you could also hot smoke with no cure if you do the oven finisher step.

Now, assuming I got these options correct, which one produces the best jerky?


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## kit s (May 28, 2018)

SmokinAl said:


> Honestly I would never make jerky without using cure #1.
> Why take the chance?
> Al


Al and Dave
Why do you have to use a cure?
I mean I understand concerns about botulism, but way back when they didn't have such a thing. Usually just salt and smoke were all that was used. Sometimes not even salt as that depended on availability.
I just want to understand better why we have to use today. Is it vacuum packing etc. that makes this concern more probable?
Kit


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## daveomak (May 28, 2018)

Botulism still exists in the environment today....  Methods for food processing and chemicals, when properly used, have it under control today....  
Botulism is the deadliest pathogen known to man....
I don't want to become infected nor do I want the responsibility of any family or friends contracting the bacteria....
1.1 grams cure#1 per pound of stuff, is pretty easy and inexpensive to have a safeguard...

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...ss-and-disease/clostridium-botulinum/ct_index
http://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/multimedia/multimedia_pub/multimedia_pub_fsf_46_01.html
https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/UCM252416.pdf
http://www.issc.org/Data/Sites/1/media/2015 biennial meeting/mary losikoff rop presentation.pdf

Please note.....
Under ideal conditions....  at 10C or 50F....  in ~3 days the toxin can form...  
and above 38F it can form in the refer..


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## nanuk (Jun 3, 2018)

tradition pemmican was made by drying meat.

once meat gets to a certain dry level it is shelf stable, and safe.

Around my area, pemmican has been dug up by farmers, and when tested, was considered over 100 years old.
University labs found the stuff completely safe to consume today!

I know the Gov't is looking out for everyone because their are bad producers out there....  

and if you can use a simple product to make it more safe, why not?


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