# How The AMNPS Affects The MES 30



## daricksta (Apr 21, 2015)

P1010950.JPG



__ daricksta
__ Apr 21, 2015


















P1010951.JPG



__ daricksta
__ Apr 21, 2015






Here's 3 St. Louis Ribs I smoked in my MES 30 yesterday using hickory and oak wood pellets in my AMNPS, filling all 3 rows. I didn't foil them so they developed a thick black bark which is not the way I like them. I prefer the wet look with no bark which comes from the 3-2-1 method or variations on it. I also overcooked them by about 30 minutes.

Just want to talk about lighting the AMNPS. I bought a box of canned gelled alcohol at Lowes since they didn't have squeeze bottles. I spooned the gel onto the top of the wood pellets near the AMNPS front hole, underneath the AMNPS in the same spot, and I spooned it into the front hole and lit the hole thing with a BBQ lighter. It worked. After the flames were going for about 20 minutes I blew on it, got the red cherry, and inserted the AMNPS lit end first toward the rear wall. It performed flawlessly over a 7 hour smoke and I had a small section of unburnt pellets remaining near the front hole at the end.

First, the MES controller was rock solid for most of the smoke, no temp fluctations. I was using my ET-733 and placed the FOOD (#1) probe on the rear right of the 2nd rack and the BARBECUE (#2) probe on the far left on the 3rd rack. My target temp was 250°. At first the right side was way hotter than the left, then a few hours in they both were pretty close and the controller temp was pretty close to the ET-733 temp displays, then in the last hour or so the temps on the ET-733 climbed to 270/266° AND the left side grew hotter than the left.

To me the only explanation was that the additional heat was coming from the AMNPS; the burning pellets started in the rear on the right side, came down to the front and turned the corner to burn down the center row back to the row, turned the corner again and came burning down the left side. That would account for the areas of increased temps I saw. Add to that three racks of ribs that are radiating heat on their own as they cook and get close to being done and that's why you'll see those temp changes necessitating raising or lowering your set point. For the most part, though, the MES controller screen showed a temp about 20° lower than the actual temp. When I was seeing 270° it was still showing 250. In the end I had to lower the set point to 235° to get near my target set point of 250° with both probes.

So, to summarize, when you're smoking and using the AMNPS you've got to account for the additional heat being produced by the wood pellets and where on the AMNPS they're burning. You've also got to account for heat being given off by the meat. The AMNPS performed flawlessly with wood pellets left over after 7 hours. There were no temp swings with the MES controller. It pretty much stayed around a particular temp, give or take 2-3 degrees which is highly acceptable.

Next time I return to foiling the ribs and will also return to using baby back ribs since I just found out I prefer those to St. Louis ribs since you don't have those tiny riblet bones to pick out of your mouth. I hate that.


----------



## bmaddox (Apr 21, 2015)

I use my AMNPS in a mailbox mod and it doesn't seem to put out much heat. The mailbox is barely even warm to the touch. You might have been getting larger temp variations from the positioning of the meat and just the nature of the MES to vary throughout the cooking process.


----------



## daricksta (Apr 21, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> I use my AMNPS in a mailbox mod and it doesn't seem to put out much heat. The mailbox is barely even warm to the touch. You might have been getting larger temp variations from the positioning of the meat and just the nature of the MES to vary throughout the cooking process.


That's the key difference then. Do you see much in the way of temp changes or fluctuations?

I just don't want to go through the hassle of buying the materials and constructing the mailbox. It'd also be one more thing I'd have to bring out and put away. Last night was hassle enough cleanin the racks, grease tray, and outside of the water pan after dinner. Then I had to put everything back and put all my smoking stuff back into my garage. As I've said before I take a minimalist approach to using my MES.


----------



## bmaddox (Apr 21, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> That's the key difference then. Do you see much in the way of temp changes or fluctuations?
> 
> I just don't want to go through the hassle of buying the materials and constructing the mailbox. It'd also be one more thing I'd have to bring out and put away. Last night was hassle enough cleanin the racks, grease tray, and outside of the water pan after dinner. Then I had to put everything back and put all my smoking stuff back into my garage. As I've said before I take a minimalist approach to using my MES.


That's why I like my cart setup. Everything I need stays on the cart. I just roll it out, plug it in, then roll it back in when I am done.













IMG_1407.JPG



__ bmaddox
__ Feb 9, 2015


----------



## daricksta (Apr 21, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> That's why I like my cart setup. Everything I need stays on the cart. I just roll it out, plug it in, then roll it back in when I am done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a great setup! I'd love the cart but we're tight for room in my garage--too much junk to be rid of that we're not rid of yet. Did you purchase this cart set up this way or did you build it yourself?


----------



## bmaddox (Apr 21, 2015)

It is a tool cart I got on Craig's List that I lowered the top shelf on then added the side shelf (built out of diamond plate and some angle pieces). It doesn't look that good anymore. It is full of bags of pellets, torches, racks, and all sort of crap that has accumulated.


----------



## dr k (Apr 21, 2015)

daRicksta,

How did the inside turn out?  If the outside bark is too heavy you may be able to save them with a finishing juice like Chef jimmy's on the stove top.  Debone it and make pulled rib meat or homemade McRibs.  24 hrs. in the fridge with a finishing juice and the pulled meat really soaks it up and softens heavy bark.


----------



## daricksta (Apr 21, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> It is a tool cart I got on Craig's List that I lowered the top shelf on then added the side shelf (built out of diamond plate and some angle pieces). It doesn't look that good anymore. It is full of bags of pellets, torches, racks, and all sort of crap that has accumulated.


Funny how you accumulate all that stuff, isn't it? I'm done with using a propane torch (what'll I do with my leftover cans of propane?) since my successful experiment with gelled alcohol as an AMNPS lighter. It was easy and worked great. The pellets never went out over the 7 hours I smoked and I even had some unburnt ones left over!

I shy away from craigslist. Some very bad people sometimes post there or answer ads. On the other hand, we have a good friend who swears by it.


----------



## bmaddox (Apr 21, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Funny how you accumulate all that stuff, isn't it? I'm done with using a propane torch (what'll I do with my leftover cans of propane?) since my successful experiment with gelled alcohol as an AMNPS lighter. It was easy and worked great. The pellets never went out over the 7 hours I smoked and I even had some unburnt ones left over!
> 
> I shy away from craigslist. Some very bad people sometimes post there or answer ads. On the other hand, we have a good friend who swears by it.


I buy a lot of stuff on there and my wife always says I'm crazy because of the crazy people that use the site. But I always meet during daylight hours, in public places, and I am always armed


----------



## daricksta (Apr 21, 2015)

Dr K said:


> daRicksta,
> 
> How did the inside turn out?  If the outside bark is too heavy you may be able to save them with a finishing juice like Chef jimmy's on the stove top.  Debone it and make pulled rib meat or homemade McRibs.  24 hrs. in the fridge with a finishing juice and the pulled meat really soaks it up and softens heavy bark.


Kurt,

That's the amazing thing! The meat was falling off the bone and totally moist. It wasn't overly smoked either, which really surprised me. As a finishing juice I just used some Pendelton BBQ Sauce but I'm going back to Stubbs Original. When we have time my wife makes up the BBQ sauce while I take care of the rub (but she's also thrown a rub together herself in the past while I've made BBQ sauce). Ideally though I like a slight tug instead of falling off the bone but next time I'll exert more hands on control. Except for fooling around with the set points it was among the easiest smokes I've done.

The McRibs sandwich idea is fabulous! I already purloined one of their best sellers when I created my Bagel McRick which is famous throughout my family. Had to create the Muffin McRick version for my daughter who doesn't like bagels. Even after all my years in the business (3 years with my MES) I didn't know finishing juice will soften bark. I should check out Chef Jimmy's recipe because I rarely check his threads. I typically don't check out much since it's all I can do to post and respond to posts during my limited time on SMF.


----------



## daricksta (Apr 21, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> I buy a lot of stuff on there and my wife always says I'm crazy because of the crazy people that use the site. But I always meet during daylight hours, in public places, and I am always armed


I just learned more about you! Too bad those poor sellers who were shot to death weren't armed. We're not weaponized at all in our homes. Too many potential problems with guns as far as we're concerned. We do have things that can be used as weapons but we've never had any incidents. I prefer to buy most things new anyway unless we come across a really good deal on a particular used item, be it a motor vehicle or something else.


----------



## bmaddox (Apr 21, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> I just learned more about you! Too bad those poor sellers who were shot to death weren't armed. We're not weaponized at all in our homes. Too many potential problems with guns as far as we're concerned. We do have things that can be used as weapons but we've never had any incidents. I prefer to buy most things new anyway unless we come across a really good deal on a particular used item, be it a motor vehicle or something else.


I understand the potential for issues. The wife and I both are trained and have our concealed carry permit and we keep everything locked up so my daughter can't get to it.


----------



## daricksta (Apr 21, 2015)

bmaddox said:


> I understand the potential for issues. The wife and I both are trained and have our concealed carry permit and we keep everything locked up so my daughter can't get to it.


That's the way it's supposed to be done. Years ago I inherited an old S&W .38 Police Special plus a tray of ammo from my dad. It's action was very stiff and I never put a round in to try it out. I had it hidden in the top shelf of our bedroom closet. My daughter was about four years old at the time and my son was a newborn. I just worried that somewhere down the years one or both would find the gun and ammo. I wound up turning it all in at a local police station and we've never had another gun in the house.


----------



## miersc77 (Apr 22, 2015)

Sorry the ribs weren't your style, still looked tasty. Good idea about lighting the AMNPS, might have to give it a shot. Mine should be here tomorrow.


----------



## daricksta (Apr 22, 2015)

Miersc77 said:


> Sorry the ribs weren't your style, still looked tasty. Good idea about lighting the AMNPS, might have to give it a shot. Mine should be here tomorrow.


Oh yeah--it was the AMNPS you have on the way! I still really liked the ribs and I tell you--my favorite bro-in-law AND his two dogs went bananas over them. The style I turned out is very popular and I see it on TV all the time when those travel shows hit BBQ restaurants around the country. But the thing is that I now know how to make ribs in two different styles anytime I want.


----------



## miersc77 (Apr 22, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Oh yeah--it was the AMNPS you have on the way! I still really liked the ribs and I tell you--my favorite bro-in-law AND his two dogs went bananas over them. The style I turned out is very popular and I see it on TV all the time when those travel shows hit BBQ restaurants around the country. But the thing is that I now know how to make ribs in two different styles anytime I want.



Those are my favorite two styles, the way I like em, and the way everyone else likes em! Love it when family enjoys the Q!


----------



## daricksta (Apr 23, 2015)

Miersc77 said:


> Those are my favorite two styles, the way I like em, and the way everyone else likes em! Love it when family enjoys the Q!


It's so easy to do. Unlike other cooks I've never compiled a notebook of what I've done in the past for future reference. I don't have time to get into it: writing down meats and cheeses temps and hours smoked and wood chips and rubs and mops used and foiled or unfoiled. I just remember the important stuff that I did. I'll remember that this last time I smoked 3 racks of St. Louis ribs and didn't foil them and the result was thicker bark. I already remember that I've twice smoked baby backs and foiled them and what rubs and mops I used and the temp I cooked them at and about how long and how they turned out. But each time I smoke I learn something new whether it's what to repeat or what not to do again.

I'm not trying to raise my smoking skills to competition level. I'm just trying to be the best smoker I can be in my own backyard and to please whoever eats at my table.


----------



## daricksta (Apr 23, 2015)

Miersc77 said:


> Those are my favorite two styles, the way I like em, and the way everyone else likes em! Love it when family enjoys the Q!


Sorry, one more post. This is a photo from Jeff's current newsletter. I've produced smoked ribs that look just like these. I don't like heavy black bark on my pork ribs or beef brisket. I don't like the texture or the taste. This is my favorite style and the one my family prefers. Use the 3-2-1 method (or 2-2-1 or other variations) and you'll get this result every time. 













3-2-1-St-Louis-Spare-Ribs-corrected.jpg



__ daricksta
__ Apr 23, 2015


----------



## Bearcarver (Apr 23, 2015)

Great MES testing Rick!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I'm sure a lot of People learned a bunch from this Thread!!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Thanks for sharing this!!-------------------
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Bear


----------



## daricksta (Apr 23, 2015)

Thanks, Bear. I sure hope this was educational. I know it was for me and that my technique will continue to improve. It's great when you're cooking anything and are totally confident that you know what you're doing.


----------



## miersc77 (Apr 24, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> It's so easy to do. Unlike other cooks I've never compiled a notebook of what I've done in the past for future reference. I don't have time to get into it: writing down meats and cheeses temps and hours smoked and wood chips and rubs and mops used and foiled or unfoiled. I just remember the important stuff that I did. I'll remember that this last time I smoked 3 racks of St. Louis ribs and didn't foil them and the result was thicker bark. I already remember that I've twice smoked baby backs and foiled them and what rubs and mops I used and the temp I cooked them at and about how long and how they turned out. But each time I smoke I learn something new whether it's what to repeat or what not to do again.
> 
> I'm not trying to raise my smoking skills to competition level. I'm just trying to be the best smoker I can be in my own backyard and to please whoever eats at my table.



I agree with you 100% about not trying to raise your skills to competition level. I smoke the way I like to, and like my Q just fine. Not saying I don't have a million things to learn, just doing it my way.



daRicksta said:


> Sorry, one more post. This is a photo from Jeff's current newsletter. I've produced smoked ribs that look just like these. I don't like heavy black bark on my pork ribs or beef brisket. I don't like the texture or the taste. This is my favorite style and the one my family prefers. Use the 3-2-1 method (or 2-2-1 or other variations) and you'll get this result every time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
No apology needed, I was reading his newsletter as well and that  is the way I like my ribs also. I'm not sure how I like beef brisket, never had a lot to make a good decision. 

I can't stop looking at those ribs!! Sure is a purrdy picture!!


----------



## gary s (Apr 24, 2015)

Now those are some mighty pretty ribs 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






Gary


----------



## daricksta (Apr 24, 2015)

Miersc77 said:


> I agree with you 100% about not trying to raise your skills to competition level. I smoke the way I like to, and like my Q just fine. Not saying I don't have a million things to learn, just doing it my way.
> 
> No apology needed, I was reading his newsletter as well and that is the way I like my ribs also. I'm not sure how I like beef brisket, never had a lot to make a good decision.
> 
> I can't stop looking at those ribs!! Sure is a purrdy picture!!


I swear to you that the last two times I made baby back ribs (not St. Louis ribs as shown in the photo) they looked just like these. And I did it all in me little MES with the AMNPS. The biggest decision with ribs (and beef brisket, which I've smoked in my MES a few times) beside the rub and to mop or not to mop and if so what to mop with, is what wood pellets to use. Hickory? Oak? Pecan? Apple? A combo? None of the above?

I took a BBQ class where the instructor swore we couldn't tell the difference in taste between the woods if he held a blind tasting. That may or may not be true but it's easy to prove. Just smoke up some ribs with one flavor of wood pellets, refridge the leftovers, cook up another identical batch on a different day using a different wood flavor, refridge those leftovers, then heat them both up carefully and compare the flavors. Smoked flavors actually intensify over time; the leftover ribs are much more delightfully smoky than when I pulled them out of the MES.


----------



## parrot-head (May 1, 2015)

The gelled alcohol thing sounds interesting.

Did you just get like the sterno can stuff you use for under foil pans?


----------



## daricksta (May 1, 2015)

PaRRot-HeaD said:


> The gelled alcohol thing sounds interesting.


Parrot-Head, it worked like a charm. My days with a propane torch are over. Only thing to watch out for is when you're blowing on the smoking pellets to get that red cherry. If you blow too hard little bits of molten gelled alcohol go flying up and land on your arms, face and hair. I did that once--once--and then quickly adjusted to avoid it happening again.

The only gelled alcohol the Lowes near me carries is a six-can pack that  was designed to be used as patio table torch but they can also be used for sterno cans. The gel is soft so I just spooned it out onto the pellets and the AMNPS as I think I described earlier in this thread. It was the easiest way to lit the AMNPS I've ever found--and it stayed lit.


----------



## dr k (May 1, 2015)

PaRRot-HeaD said:


> The gelled alcohol thing sounds interesting.
> 
> Did you just get like the sterno can stuff you use for under foil pans?


Survivor man used gel hand sanitizer.  Kinda like lighter fluid you probably need to let it completely burn up if there is a fragrance in it.

-Kurt


----------



## dr k (May 1, 2015)

Todd's Garlic spice and a couple other specialty pellets that don't have the name of the wood is White Oak.

-Kurt


----------



## daricksta (May 1, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Todd's Garlic spice and a couple other specialty pellets that don't have the name of the wood is White Oak.
> 
> -Kurt


That sounds great. I read in my Ray Lampe book about the flavored woods being used for smoking. He mentioned Garlic Spice and as well as old wine and bourbon barrels. Todd's on the cutting edge with offering all those new fangled wood pellet flavors. I am a man of simple tastes, however, and just stick with yer basic wood pellets. If I want to add a garlic, wine, etc. flavor to the meat I'll put it in the marinade or rub or finishing juice or sauce.


----------



## dr k (May 15, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> Funny how you accumulate all that stuff, isn't it? I'm done with using a propane torch (what'll I do with my leftover cans of propane?) since my successful experiment with gelled alcohol as an AMNPS lighter. It was easy and worked great. The pellets never went out over the 7 hours I smoked and I even had some unburnt ones left over!
> 
> I shy away from craigslist. Some very bad people sometimes post there or answer ads. On the other hand, we have a good friend who swears by it.


My girlfriend is loaded with Dial fragrance free gel hand sanitizer from the American Red Cross.  It's 62% ethyl alcohol.  I covered one 1" hickory pellet and put it in my filled AMNTS.  It's like a wick that starts what it's touching.  No more hassling with keeping the blow torch lit in the wind. 

-Kurt


----------



## daricksta (May 15, 2015)

Dr K said:


> My girlfriend is loaded with Dial fragrance free gel hand sanitizer from the American Red Cross.  It's 62% ethyl alcohol.  I covered one 1" hickory pellet and put it in my filled AMNTS.  It's like a wick that starts what it's touching.  No more hassling with keeping the blow torch lit in the wind.
> 
> -Kurt


May I compliment you on the brilliance of yourself? First, I've never seen Dial hand gel with alcohol at the supermarket because I would've bought it just to sanitize my hands. Second, you took it further and fashioned your own cheap--as in free--AMNTS starter. I'm using gelled alcohol but I still had a couple of problems with keeping my AMNPS lit initially the 2nd time I used the stuff but I think that was more user error. Yep--I'm not using a blowtorch anymore, either.


----------



## dr k (May 15, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> May I compliment you on the brilliance of yourself? First, I've never seen Dial hand gel with alcohol at the supermarket because I would've bought it just to sanitize my hands. Second, you took it further and fashioned your own cheap--as in free--AMNTS starter. I'm using gelled alcohol but I still had a couple of problems with keeping my AMNPS lit initially the 2nd time I used the stuff but I think that was more user error. Yep--I'm not using a blowtorch anymore, either.


Les Stroud, the Canadian Survivorman on the Discovery Channel, was using hand sanitizer to start a survival fire.  He gets the credit.  I just thought of it when you were talking about gelled alcohol.  Now that I see Todd has it I'll add it to my next pellet order.

-Kurt


----------



## gary s (May 15, 2015)

Hey Pretty Cool     Sanitized and lit at the same time !!

Gaet


----------



## dr k (May 15, 2015)

gary s said:


> Hey Pretty Cool     Sanitized and lit at the same time !!
> 
> Gaet


Clean burning!? Lol  If you get some on your hands, you don't have to wash it off! Ok I'm going to quit now.

-Kurt


----------



## gary s (May 15, 2015)

Hey maybe they will start making a Hickory or Pecan Fragrance ???

Gary


----------



## dr k (May 15, 2015)

:yeahthat: :sausage:


----------



## daricksta (May 16, 2015)

Dr K said:


> Les Stroud, the Canadian Survivorman on the Discovery Channel, was using hand sanitizer to start a survival fire.  He gets the credit.  I just thought of it when you were talking about gelled alcohol.  Now that I see Todd has it I'll add it to my next pellet order.
> 
> -Kurt


I forgot that Todd offered it but what I bought at Lowes will last me quite a while. The hassle is I have to spoon it out of can instead of squeezing it out of a bottle.


----------

