# Do you seal a smoker to keep in heat and smoke or keep oxygen just going through your vents?



## archi-nutt (Feb 18, 2017)

Do you seal a smoker to keep in heat and smoke or keep oxygen just going through your vents?

I ask because my completely stock Dyno Glo Verticle smoker is tough to get under 290  with a regular amount of briquets in it.  It has thin metal and it was 30ish degrees both times.

At first I thought we were keeping smoke and heat in with the (future) sealant so I am wondering why the temps stay so high. It occured to me with a leaky door etc more oxygen that can't be controlled is getting in.

Am I thinking about this correctly?  I would hate to have to keep putting coals in every 30 minutes for these 12 hour cooks!


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## joe black (Feb 18, 2017)

Air needs to be going through to keep a fire going.  Smoke needs to go through to keep meat from getting bitter.  Just my $0.02


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## archi-nutt (Feb 18, 2017)

Yep, and thats what the vent and chimney is doing. I am wondering about the air that is sneaking in at the joints


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## pc farmer (Feb 18, 2017)

I leaky fire box door will cause high temps.   I leaky cc door wont.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks C Farmer. That is interesting.  Makes sense I guess.  When I get time to get this thing sealed up I am very curious how much of a difference it makes.  I really enjoyed the first two smokes and the food was amazing.


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 18, 2017)

Take both Joe's and Adam's answers to the bank, Arch:  Adam's comment has dual meaning.  While leaky FB door causes high temps and CC doesn't, read between the lines.  Leaky CC causes heat loss, thus slow cook and more fuel consumption.  Keep all door/joints well sealed, and use your intake vents as intended--exhaust vent(s) should be wide open.  Another set of $0.02.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks everyone.  Ordered stuff for both fronts.

It was just counterintuitive for a minute if I couldn't keep the heat down to tighten things up, then the combustible air idea hit me.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 23, 2017)

Sealed it up tonight. Felty nomex stuff around the smoke box last night (should have ordered wider but it should still work -1/4 wide versus 1/2" space) and hi temp at cracks and the firebox tonight. Should be cured for a Saturday cook. Very curious to see the difference. Hope I get time to smoke something.


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## wade (Feb 24, 2017)

I have not used a Dyna-Glo but have seen one in action on YouTube. A couple of comments that may help..

As with all smokers, until you get used to its operation you should run it with the top vent fully open. It is important to keep the air and smoke moving through the smoker.

The Firebox looks to be very large and if you fill it with lit coals it will get the smoker way too hot. Are you using the the Minion method to control the burn? This should allow you to control the temperature quite low just by restricting the bottom air vent.













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__ wade
__ Feb 24, 2017






Here is a screenshot I grabbed from one of the YouTube videos showing the Dyna-Glo firebox set up for Minion. A few lit coals are placed in the hole at the bottom right and the fire allowed to slowly spread through the firegox throughout the duration of the cook.

Bring the smoker up to temperature slowly. As the temperature increases start to shut down the bottom air vent when it is about 3/4 up to temperature. As the smoker gets closer to temperature continue to progressively shut down the bottom vent until an equilibrium is reached. Do not let the temperature overshoot as it is much harder to bring it back down after it has got too high.

Are you getting a lot of smoke coming out of the door seals? If not you may gain little value in using the sealer. I suspect that your problem was that you had too much fire in the firebox to begin with and had not shut the bottom vent down early enough.

Keep us updated.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 24, 2017)

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__ archi-nutt
__ Feb 24, 2017






Thanks...that is really helpful. I put a picture of my minion method after it had been going for a while. That is a brick in the middle to make a path. Tomorrow i may try the method you suggest. I did NOT choke the air down as it rose (didn't know too...so thanks) and yes it got very hot and was hard to get down afterward without really limiting to very few briquettes. 

I will try these tomorrow. Thanks!


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## daveomak (Feb 25, 2017)

Nutt, morning....  One additional thing that may help...   I didn't notice an air inlet on the smoker body...   Tweaking the air inlet on the Fire Box will control the heat..  An air inlet on the smoker body will allow you to help control the heat, lowering it, if the FB gets too warm...  also, when you have the fire choked down, it will allow you to add air flow to the smoker body for clean tasting smoke...   similar to the upper air inlet on a RF smoker...  You could add an upper air inlet on your FB directly across from the FB/CC opening IF you thought it would not add air to the fire and cause it to heat up again..  

An air tight smoker is a good thing...  allows for total operator control...


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## archi-nutt (Feb 25, 2017)

The only inlet in the smoke chamber is the chimney. Are you saying add another on the side of the smoke chamber or the firebox?  I don't want to misunderstand the abbreviations. FB - fire box, CC - cooking chamber? RF - im not sure. 

Newbie here


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## daveomak (Feb 25, 2017)

RF is Reverse flow smoker....  

An upper air inlet to the FB is added...  It doesn't add air to the fire and cause more heat...  It adds air to the upper FB to aid in "somewhat complete combustion" of the tars and move heat from the FB to the cook chamber.. and can cool the CC also if enough is added...   It's an additional control device to get clean smoke and regulate temps....  It also reduces the "suck" created from the chimney effect of the smoker on the lower air inlet which lowers the heating effect of that inlet...

What some have found, the FB gets too hot and there's not much you can do..  an additional "upper air inlet" will help to cool the FB, reducing fuel usage and control the heat in the CC... 

If you think you can install an upper air inlet on the FB...  if it's high enough to not add air to the fire, I would suggest adding one across from the FB/CC opening... 

Below is a picture of the placement of both FB air inlets...  the upper is far enough away from the fire it does not add air to the fire...   They don't have to be fancy...  an 1 1/2" hole with a slide or swivel or something to adjust the hole size..    You could start with a 1" hole and check the results...   it probably would not ever need to be adjusted and would be beneficial to your smoker...  Smoked meats need good air flow..  

If you can adjust the lower air flow inlet to get the coals to "simmer" so the smoker doesn't get too hot, your smoker may not have enough air flow for the meat...  the upper air inlet will allow for the necessary air flow for good clean smoke....

If you the single 1" upper air inlet and it works "OK" then you could add one more 1" upper air inlet and check the quality of the meat after smoking..

I'm of the opinion, you can't have too much air flow in a smoker..  all you need to do is up the heat to get the temperature where you want it... then all is good....   I have 3 each 1" air holes supplying my MES 30...    Your smoker could probably use the same...  2 lower to keep air to the pellets... the upper to move the smoke and provide that extra oxygen for "complete" combustion in removing creosote and tars as much as possible..













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__ daveomak
__ Feb 18, 2017






A FB from a RF smoker....  If you can see it, the upper air inlets do not add to the fire...













Smoker Exh and Intakes 2.jpg



__ daveomak
__ Jan 8, 2017


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## wade (Feb 25, 2017)

To be honest, I would not start drilling additional holes in your new smoker until you have tried the simple things first and they have not worked. Surgery should always be a last resort. I have been checking the online customer reviews for this unit and I am not seeing anything that suggests that poor temperature control is a design flaw on this model.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 25, 2017)

Super interesting. I will try the holes after a few more cooks. I don't want to change too many things at once. In this smoke what is new is a sealed door in both cc and fun and sealant at the connection. I also swapped out a pan of water for a pan of sand right above the fire box hole. 

I also caught it at the the 3/4 heat point and moved the intake to 1/4.  I also built the heat up slow. 

That is probably too much in one smoke but it does seem to be acting better. 

Today is a salmon and potatoes run (I don't have all day - just half). Tomorrow is a pork butt - my third one. 

This forum is amazing

I didn't use the brick this time. Do y'all think that helps?


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## wade (Feb 25, 2017)

The brick will only take up charcoal space and reduce the potential cook time. You should be able to control the burn rate simply by adjusting the bottom air vent in this kind of smoker. Looking forward to seeing how you get on tomorrow


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 25, 2017)

I don't think so, Wade--that fire brick will hold the heat just fine, and I get the maze effect he's created.  I don't think cook time will be affected:  instead, it will likely will lessen his fuel consumption.


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## wimpy69 (Feb 25, 2017)

The first thing I did after mine arrived(before assembly) was put a bright light in the fire box turned the room lights off and found all my leaks. Mainly where the top is welded to the sides. Between welds at least .003-5 gap down one side and spotty on the others. Also with the air inlet plate closed alot of light around rolled punches on plate. I laminated a plate onto factory inlet plate with slightly smaller ovals to get 100% closer. In the cook chamber some open gaps where top is mated to body. Light will show you every gap when it shines thru. Hope it helps.


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## wade (Feb 25, 2017)

When you are burning fuel and have reached the equilibrium point (where the heat produced by the coals matches the heat lost through the flue and walls of the smoker) you will be burning fuel at the same rate regardless of the amount of fuel that you have. The brick takes up space that would have been available for additional fuel - hence the reduction in overall cook time. I can see why the brick is there to create the maze effect but the fuel also has to heat that up too to begin with before it can later give heat back out. The brick will not be able to create heat and therefore the coals will have to have already created that heat too.

Once the smoker has reached equilibrium then (assuming normal external temperature conditions) then the length of the potential cook is limited only by the availability of the fuel and the air. More fuel = longer cook time.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 25, 2017)

Wimpy, I did the flash light thing earlier in the week. I doubt I got everything but got the big gaps you describe. This thing is acting so much better today 

On the brick, it seems like with less coals I had to keep putting more in more often. I am not seeing spikes. But now this thing is sealed better and I have a pan full of sand instead of water.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 25, 2017)

Wade, what you say seems to be in line with what is happening today. (Burning now)

I literally had to add briquettes ever 35 minutes or they would burn away.  Seems a lot better today. 

I have seen people use metal plates to make the snake. Seems like that would take less space for
Fuel and also not absorb so much heat.


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## archi-nutt (Feb 25, 2017)

If I needed to keep this thing at 90 for cheese or something the brick and less space might be really helpful.


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## wimpy69 (Feb 25, 2017)

You can fabricate dividers as easy as taking a #10 can and hacking it up to make a double wall panel with a 3/4" gap between with return ends. Drill a hole in end piece place in basket and use some bailing wire thru you firebasket holes. If you dont like how it runs,away with it, nothing lost. If it works to your liking upgrade to something more permanent.


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 25, 2017)

Wade said:


> When you are burning fuel and have reached the equilibrium point (where the heat produced by the coals matches the heat lost through the flue and walls of the smoker) you will be burning fuel at the same rate regardless of the amount of fuel that you have. The brick takes up space that would have been available for additional fuel - hence the reduction in overall cook time. I can see why the brick is there to create the maze effect but the fuel also has to heat that up too to begin with before it can later give heat back out. The brick will not be able to create heat and therefore the coals will have to have already created that heat too.
> 
> Once the smoker has reached equilibrium then (assuming normal external temperature conditions) then the length of the potential cook is limited only by the availability of the fuel and the air. More fuel = longer cook time.


I understand that the brick won't create heat, nor will it ever exceed the temps of the surrounding coals.  However, this "technology" of using bricks to hold heat has been utilized for centuries:  when we're talking about one brick, the coals in contact with the brick will get it up to temp rather rapidly.  If we were talking about a large wood fired brick oven, then yes, it would take a large amount of fuel to get up to cooking temp from ambient temp.  That's exactly why these types of ovens (wood fired pizza oven comes readily to mind) are seldom allowed to squelch and are kept burning constantly with a minimal amount of fuel having to be added.  In Arch's simple example, it will take a negligible amount of time to get a single brick up to temp (might take a few more briquettes on the front end), and once there, will maintain that heat with the surrounding coals being in contact with the brick, thus using less over the life of the cook.


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## wade (Feb 25, 2017)

The technology you are referring to is used to take a high heat over a short period of time and the release it slowly over a longer period of time. The comparatively tiny thermal mass of the single fire brick in the firebox will have very little (if any) additional impact on maintaining the required temperature in the smoke box once it is up to temperature. The amount of available fuel here is the important factor when it comes to the potential length of cook. If you cannot see that then I am afraid we will just have to agree to differ.


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 25, 2017)

Wade said:


> The technology you are referring to is used to take a high heat over a short period of time and the release it slowly over a longer period of time. The comparatively tiny thermal mass of the single fire brick in the firebox will have very little (if any) additional impact on maintaining the required temperature in the smoke box once it is up to temperature. The amount of available fuel here is the important factor when it comes to the potential length of cook. If you cannot see that then I am afraid we will just have to agree to differ.


I can see plenty, Wade, but you're correct about one thing:  we'll agree to disagree on this one, amigo.


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## wade (Feb 25, 2017)




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## archi-nutt (Feb 25, 2017)

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__ archi-nutt
__ Feb 25, 2017






And the important part!


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## gr0uch0 (Feb 25, 2017)

There you go, Archi:  well done, sir!


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## archi-nutt (Feb 26, 2017)

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__ archi-nutt
__ Feb 26, 2017






Today is completely different. I need to keep The firebox almost full and wide open and can't seem to
Keep it at or above 200. But the pork butt temp seems to keep climbing steadily and burn time for the
Box is about 1.5 hours. So I'm just going with it. 

Today is mid 30s and really windy.  The box metal is pretty thin so I bet that has to effect it

I also just moved my thermometer to a different place. But it doesn't seem to change much. 

I may try to move the tin full of sand to the bottom to finish off with more heat to get through the stall here in a few minutes.


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## dave schiller (May 18, 2017)

I've been refurbishing a New Braunfels offset smoker and have all (well, most) of the leaks sealed.  However, the firebox door has gaps that probably need sealing for good temp control.  The FB door does not overlap the end of the FB; it fits into the opening of the FB, as if the opening was cut to make the door.  But it doesn't fit exactly and there are gaps around the door.  I've come up with a couple of ideas to seal it.  One is to simply apply a bead of high temp rtv like Permatex and seal the door shut.  It would allow for air control exclusively through the adjustable vent.  That would require using only the top door of the FB to add fuel.

So, would there be a problem with that approach?  Does it matter whether wood (fuel) is added from the top or end of the FB?  I guess I could seal it shut and if it doesn't work, cut the rtv with a razor blade so the end door can be used.


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## daveomak (May 18, 2017)

Use thin metal strips to overlap the opening and make an air tight seal...   rivets or screws are good...


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## jimmyinsd (May 22, 2017)

I agree with Wade here.  If you dont let the fire get to big to start with, you will have a slow clean burn through the coal basket.  I have been using the minion method on my UDS for a while now and have never needed to create a maze or anything like that with the coals.   fill the basket with charcoal and wood chunks,  add about 15-20 lit coals on top depending on how hot I want to run and then adjust the air inlets down as the temp increases until you find a nice settle in at your smoking temp.  its about as easy as it gets.  

I also think the top vent runs wide open,  I will play with chimney vents at low temps for smoking (cold-170) ,  and high temps for grilling (300+), but for some reason my Q temps (220-300)  I always run the stack wide open.


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