# How to "Sterilize" inside of smoker



## phillip p smith (Dec 26, 2013)

I have an MES 40 electric.  I recently bought it.  I have always smoked meat on a trailer mounted 8 ft. smoker.  I found with it that if after a days cooking and the grease gets all down inside I clean all the renderings  and meat droppings out I heat the pit up to about 300 degrees, open the pit and splash about !/4 cup water inside. close the door and all the vents it creates steam inside and completely "sterilizes" the inside.  Pit is clean, no more odors and I am ready for next cook.

If I did this with the MES would it work?


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## daveomak (Dec 27, 2013)

Phil, morning....   I run my MES at 275 for a couple hours to sterilize it...   A pie tin with some water in it for steam would work...  Get the temp up with the pan in it and then close the exhaust.. 30 minutes the steam should have done it's job and loosened up anything you want to remove with a paper towel...  then remove the water and keep the temp up to remove any additional moisture...  
The concerns I have with steaming the MES is there are electronics buried inside the insulation layer....  In the bottom left of the floor, the master electronics are buried there...   at least in the older units.... 

Dave

Edit.....
After reading Martin's post, I am guessing it is sterile for 1 millisecond.... maybe....   because the inside will still be susceptible to growing bacteria etc.... as the temp is lowered or something like that...


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## phillip p smith (Dec 27, 2013)

Thanks Dave, I am looking for ideas as how to do this, to "sterilize" the MES, after getting the meat renderings out of the cooker! This is one way!!  Any others!!


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 27, 2013)

Every time you heat the MES above 165°F it is " Sterilized " (By definition) because all active Bacteria that can cause food borne illness are destroyed. In the remote event that any Bacterial Spores have found their way into the smoker during a previous Cool or Cold Smoking session, they can be eliminated by heating the Smoker to the common Hot smoking temperature of 225°F or higher. 

The heat kills any mold and Bacteria that may be in there. Now if you are talking about " Cleaning " the MES, cover the drip pan in the base and the water pan with foil, cover the top of the housing around the coil also. After the cook, wash the racks and change the foil and you are good to go. The smokey build up on the walls is " Seasoning " and contributes to the flavor. It is Supposed to be there and unless excessive only needs cleaning once a year, followed be Re-seasoning...JJ


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 27, 2013)

You can't sterilize your smoker unless you can completely seal it and ensure that it maintains a temperature that's high enough and long enough to do the sterilizing.

You can temporarily sanitize your smoker but that doesn't ensure that any remaining gunk won't grow nasties.



~Martin


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## ibbones (Dec 27, 2013)

Just a Newbe here but I also kinda do what Dave does.  Turn it on at 275* for a few hours with some water in the pan and let it go.  I don't wipe the walls down or anything but at least I "feel" it's clean.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 27, 2013)

DiggingDogFarm said:


> You can't sterilize your smoker unless you can completely seal it and ensure that it maintains a temperature that's high enough and long enough to do the sterilizing.
> 
> You can temporarily sanitize your smoker but that doesn't ensure that any remaining gunk won't grow nasties.
> 
> ...


Below are three sources that are specific. Some people repeatedly bring up the very few Bacteria that form Spores. In this light I will amend my previous answer of, " Every time you heat the MES above 165°F it is " Sterilized ", to the following statement...

" Every time you heat the MES above 165°F it is " Sterilized " (By definition) because all active Bacteria that can cause food borne illness are destroyed. In the remote event that any Bacterial Spores have found their way into the smoker during a previous Cool or Cold Smoking session, they can be eliminated by heating the Smoker to the common Hot smoking temperature of 225°F or higher." 

*ster·il·ize*
[ stérrə lz ]

destroy microorganisms:* to kill all living microorganisms *in something in order to make it incapable of causing infection
make infertile: to stop a person or animal from reproducing, e.g. by surgical removal or alteration of reproductive organs.
*ster·il·ize*   (st
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






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_tr.v._  *ster·il·ized*, *ster·il·iz·ing*, *ster·il·iz·es*
*1.  To make free from live bacteria or other microorganisms.*

[h2]ster·i·lize[/h2]  [*ster*-_uh_-lahyz]  Show IPA

_verb  (used  with  object),  _*ster·i·lized, **ster·i·liz·ing.*
*1.*
to  destroy  microorganisms  in  or  on,  usually  by  bringing  to  a*  *high  temperature*  *with  steam,  dry  heat,  or boiling  liquid.

*2.*
to  destroy  the  ability  of  (a  person  or  animal)  to  reproduce  by  removing  the  sex  organs  or  inhibitingtheir  functions.

*3.*
to  make  (land)  barren  or  unproductive.

For reference, here is a list of the Bacteria that causes Food Born illness and the Temperatures they are destroyed or inactivated...


Bacteria ResponsibleDescriptionHabitatTypes of FoodsSymptomsCauseTemperture SensitivityStaphylococcus aureusProduces a heat-stable toxinNose and throat of 30 to 50 percent of healthy population; also skin and superficial wounds.Meat and seafood salads, sandwich spreads and high salt foods.Nausea, vomiting and diarrhea within 4 to 6 hours. No fever.Poor personal hygiene and subsequent temperature abuse.No growth below 40° F. Bacteria are destroyed by normal cooking but toxin is heat-stable.SalmonellaProduces an intestinal infectionIntestinal tracts of animals and manHigh protein foods – meat, poultry, fish and eggs.Diarrhea nausea, chills, vomiting and fever within 12 to 24 hours.Contamination of ready-to-eat foods, insufficient cooking and recontamination of cooked foods.No growth below 40° F. Bacteria are destroyed by normal cooking.Clostridium perfringensProduces a spore and prefers low oxygen atmosphere. Live cells must be ingested.Dust, soil and gastrointestinal tracts of animals and man.Meat and poultry dishes, sauces and gravies.Cramps and diarrhea within 12 to 24 hours. No vomiting or fever.Improper temperature control of hot foods, and recontamination.No growth below 40 degrees F. Bacteria are killed by normal cooking but a heat-stable spore can survive.Clostridium botulinumProduces a spore and requires a low oxygen atmosphere. Produces a heat-sensitive toxin.Soils, plants, marine sediments and fish.Home-canned foods.Blurred vision, respiratory distress and possible DEATH.Improper methods of home-processing foods.Type E and Type B can grow at 38° F. Bacteria destroyed by cooking and the toxin is destroyed by boiling for 5 to 10 minutes. Heat-resistant spore can survive.Vibrio parahaemolyticusRequires salt for growth.Fish and shellfishRaw and cooked seafood.Diarrhea, cramps, vomiting, headache and fever within 12 to 24 hours.Recontamination of cooked foods or eating raw seafood.No growth below 40° F. Bacteria killed by normal cooking.Bacillus cereusProduces a spore and grows in normal oxygen atmosphere.Soil, dust and spices.Starchy food.Mild case of diarrhea and some nausea within 12 to 24 hours.Improper holding and storage temperatures after cooking.No growth below 40° F. Bacteria killed by normal cooking, but heat-resistant spore can survive.Listeria monocytogenesSurvives adverse conditions for long time periods.Soil, vegetation and water. Can survive for long periods in soil and plant materials.Milk, soft cheeses, vegetables fertilized with manure.Mimics meningitis. Immuno-compromised individuals most susceptible.Contaminated raw products.Grows at refrigeration (38-40° F) temperatures. May survive minimum pasturization tempertures (161° F for 15 seconds.)Campylobacter jejuniOxygen sensitive, does not grow below 86° F.Animal reservoirs and foods of animal origin.Meat, poulty, milk, and mushrooms.Diarrhea, abdomianl cramps and nausea.Improper pasteuriztion or cooking. Cross-contamination.Sensitive to drying or freezing. Survives in milk and water at 39° F for several weeks.Versinia enterocoliticaNot frequent cause of human infection.Poultry, beef, swine. Isolated only in human pathogen.Milk, tofu, and pork.Diarrhea, abdominal pain, vomiting. Mimics appendicitis.Improper cooking. Cross-contamination.Grows at refrigeration temperatures (35-40° F) Sensitive to heat (122° F)Enteropathogenic E. coliCan produce toxins that are heat stable and others that are heat-sensitive.Feces of infected humans.Meat and cheeses.Diarrhea, abdominal cramps, no fever.Inadequate cooking. Recontamination of cooked product.Organisms can be controlled by heating. Can grow at refrigeration temperatures.Bacterial Reference Table 
The information given herein is for educational purposes only. Reference to commercial products or trade names is made with the understanding that no discrimination is intended and no endorsement by the Texas AgriLife Extension Service is implied.

Educational programs of the Texas AgriLife Extension Service are open to all people without regard to race, color, sex, disability, religion, age, or national origin.

Publication Revised November 2008

Additional information can be found here...http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/food-technology/bacterial-food-poisoning/


Food Technology Home
Food Processing Entrepreneurs  
Bacterial Food Poisoning
Producing, Preparing & Processing Vegetables for Health  
Food Safety Issues and Electron Beam Technology
Good Agricultural Practices
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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 27, 2013)

That's a general definition from a dictionary.
We're talking food safety and sanitation here.
From a food safety and sanitation standpoint, sterilize means *to be made incapable of proliferation*....that doesn't occur unless live spores are also killed.
Technically, prevention of recolonization should also be added.
I don't consider anything less than that to be "sterile."


~Martin





Chef JimmyJ said:


> DiggingDogFarm said:
> 
> 
> > You can't sterilize your smoker unless you can completely seal it and ensure that it maintains a temperature that's high enough and long enough to do the sterilizing.
> ...


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 27, 2013)

Clostridium perfringens, bacillus cereus and clostridium botulinum all produce heat-resistant spores that can survive normal cooking temperatures.





~Martin


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## smoke signal (Dec 27, 2013)

What I've read, and in my very short experience with my MES, I just take the pieces of the smoker that have food residue and throw them in the dishwasher.  Normal cycle and they are "sterilized" according to the local health department.  Smoke residue is just what JJ says, seasoning.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 27, 2013)

DiggingDogFarm said:


> That's a general definition from a dictionary.
> We're talking food safety and sanitation here.
> From a food safety and sanitation standpoint, sterilize means *to be made incapable of proliferation*....that doesn't occur unless live spores are also killed.
> Technically, prevention of recolonization should also be added.
> ...


So three on-line Dictionaries are wrong???

Quote..." We're talking food safety and sanitation here. "

I don't have a Scanner so I am unable to scan in the definition of Sterilize from my " *Sanitation and Food Safety Instructors Manual* "...The Definition is the same. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Of course, you are free to follow any definition you choose...

Quote..." From a food safety and sanitation standpoint, sterilize means *to be made incapable of proliferation*....that doesn't occur unless live  spores are also killed.
Technically, prevention of recolonization should also be added.

I thought I covered the Spore issue with this statement...JJ

" In the remote event that any Bacterial Spores have found their way into the smoker during a previous Cool or Cold Smoking session, they can be eliminated by heating the Smoker to the common Hot smoking temperature of 225°F or higher."


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 27, 2013)

I prefer to stick with the proper definition of sterilization when it comes to food and sanitation because it's a very serious issue.
 "You are free to follow any definition you choose"...is some extremely dangerous advise.
I think it's wrong to add to the confusion by not using the proper definition.

This question came up not long ago.....someone asked.....

*"If I heat food in a pressure cooker at 15psi of pressure is the resulting food then sterilized?"*

What would you tell them?

~Martin






Chef JimmyJ said:


> DiggingDogFarm said:
> 
> 
> > That's a general definition from a dictionary.
> ...


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 28, 2013)

I only know that Pressure Cookers and Pressure Canners are not the same. Beyond that I don't know a thing on the subject. So I would not get involved in the conversation.

Martin, If you feel you can and/or should provide additional information, than do so and back it up with Documentation. There is no benefit or learning for me or anyone if instead you choose to be argumentative,( I am just as guilty here) and make Vague statements. I am getting older and miss or forget some of the details occasionally. It requires a lot less typing for us all if we work together to get the info complete and accurate...JJ


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## diggingdogfarm (Dec 28, 2013)

Argumentative?
Vague statements?
C'mon!!!
I provided an easy to understand definition that's actually applicable to food and sanitation.

Anyway, the answer is NO, the resulting food is not sterilized.
Once the cooker loses pressure and is no longer sealed the food is susceptible to reinfection.
Now, if the food was in canning jars and properly processed in a pressure canner....the resulting food would be sterile as long as the jars remain sealed.













sterilization.png



__ diggingdogfarm
__ Dec 28, 2013






~Martin


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## phillip p smith (Dec 28, 2013)

Wow!!  I thought this thread would generate some discussion. Very good info.  Should have used the word sanitize!  But then the thread would not have received this amount of info. Thanks!!


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## phillip p smith (Dec 28, 2013)

Chef JimmyJ said:


> Every time you heat the MES above 165°F it is " Sterilized " (By definition) because all active Bacteria that can cause food borne illness are destroyed. In the remote event that any Bacterial Spores have found their way into the smoker during a previous Cool or Cold Smoking session, they can be eliminated by heating the Smoker to the common Hot smoking temperature of 225°F or higher.
> 
> The heat kills any mold and Bacteria that may be in there. Now if you are talking about " Cleaning " the MES, cover the drip pan in the base and the water pan with foil, cover the top of the housing around the coil also. After the cook, wash the racks and change the foil and you are good to go. The smokey build up on the walls is " Seasoning " and contributes to the flavor. It is Supposed to be there and unless excessive only needs cleaning once a year, followed be Re-seasoning...JJ


Chef Jimmy, Tell me the reasoning behind covering the various parts with foil, please Sir!!


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## seenred (Dec 28, 2013)

Phillip P Smith said:


> Chef Jimmy, Tell me the reasoning behind covering the various parts with foil, please Sir!!


Hi Phillip...

I don't mean to speak on JJ's behalf, but the main reason for using the foil is to make cleanup easier.  Instead of grease and food drippings building up on you smoker parts, it falls on the foil...which you then simply remove and throw away.  Then put fresh foil down, and you're ready to go the next time.  This is much easier than scrubbing and scouring those smoker parts each time.

Red


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## phillip p smith (Dec 28, 2013)

Red, The question I asked was about Sanitizing the inside of the cooker after everything had been cleaned.  Why cover the various parts to sterilize or sanitize the pit? Thanks


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## demosthenes9 (Dec 28, 2013)

Phillip P Smith said:


> Red, The question I asked was about Sanitizing the inside of the cooker after everything had been cleaned.  Why cover the various parts to sterilize or sanitize the pit? Thanks


Phil,

Sometimes people use the wrong words in trying to convey their thoughts/questions.   For example, someone might say "sterilize" when they really just mean they want to clean their smoker really well.

In that response, JJ said this:


> *Now if you are talking about " Cleaning " the MES*, cover the drip pan in the base and the water pan with foil, cover the top of the housing around the coil also. After the cook, wash the racks and change the foil and you are good to go.


In short, part of JJ's reply addressed "sterilization", but just in case you were actually asking about "cleaning", or maybe because it's a closely related topic, he included advice for that as well.


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 28, 2013)

Phillip P Smith said:


> Red, The question I asked was about Sanitizing the inside of the cooker after everything had been cleaned.  Why cover the various parts to sterilize or sanitize the pit? Thanks


As Red pointed out the foil just makes the clean out easier, it has nothing to do with sanitation, the killing of any residual Bacteria. Sanitation is all done with Heat. Additionally the only parts that really need to be cleaned and sanitized are the food contact surfaces, the Grates. A smoker is like any piece of cooking equipment. There is no need to Bleach out your Oven, Stove, or BBQ Grill after every cook, same goes for the Smoker. When there is more buildup on the walls than you want, Simple Green will degrease the walls without leaving a chemical residue. Follow up with the Seasoning procedure in the manual...JJ


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## phillip p smith (Dec 28, 2013)

Very good!  Thanks?  I have had the MES 40 2nd gen about 2 weeks and really like this thing! Thanks to this forum I have learned a lot about how to use it properly.


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## sprky (Dec 28, 2013)

While I do not have a MES 40 electric smoker, the same should apply.

Many moons ago when I first started smoking, I asked my local health inspector, this very question. Her response was; as long as you do not leave drip pans, or dirty racks in the smoker and allow mold to grow, no deep cleaning is required.  If mold has been allowed to grow in the smoker clean it with a bleach solution of 1 cup bleach to 1 gal of water, and rinse well. If no mold has been allowed to grow Heat the smoker to above 300 and hold for 30 min. 

I always heat my smoker to above 300 and hold for at least 30 min, even if I am cold smoking.  I have NEVER had any problems, following this advice.  The only time my smoker gets a bath is when I start seeing grease build up in the bottom, or it has set for a long period of time,  and then it’s off to the car wash for a bath.


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## phillip p smith (Dec 28, 2013)

that is similar to what I have always done with my trailered smoker. keep the muck cleaned out and heat it up to around 330 deg. , spray some water in it and shut down. Let the steam do its job.  Ends up nice and fresh for next cooking.

That was my oriinal question about steaming the inside of the MES. According to what we have discussed here the same similar system works for keeping our smokers clean and fresh


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## jarjarchef (Dec 29, 2013)

So here is my $0.02

*Cleaning* is the process of removing material from the surface.

*Sanitizing* is the process of reducing the number of organisms

*Sterilizing* is like sanitizing, but removing all bacteria.

In my 23+ years working in proffesional kitchens I have never been asked by a Health Inspector about our sterilizing process. I have been asked everytime about how we sanitize our equiptment.

As pointed out there is no real way to truely "sterilize" your smoker. You can however clean and sanitize your smoker if you choose. However if you sanitize the smoker you will remove the seasoning from it.

If you choose to sanitize with a chemical like bleach, iodine or another food approved chemical. Make sure you are using the proper delution of them as recomended by the manufacturer.

I just took my state certification and this is what they had listed for Florida....

Bleach  - 50 parts per million. It is something like 1.5 tsp to 1 gallon of water (the varible is the concentration of chlorene in your bleach, most are 5.25% range). We were told a good guide for that is 1 *cap* full per gallon, not a cup full. If you are smelling the bleach you run a chance of chemical contamination.

Or just use the premixed wipes.

Me personally how I do mine and the one we have at work is very similar to the way you already do yours. Get the temp up high for a minimum of 30 min with water to steam the inside to loosen the stuck on pieces. Wipe them off and continue to keep hot to dry it out. The grates and other removable interior items for our MES we will wash as we would any other pot or pan, dry then store inside the dry smoker.

Hope I did not muddy up ther already muddy water....

Jeramy


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## phillip p smith (Dec 29, 2013)

Jeramy, Thanks. That will be my method>  Phillip P.


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