# PID burner control help...



## Chris Jolly (Jan 18, 2018)

I saw a post about somebody that put together a PID mypin TA4 to control a natural gas burner with a pilot and safety. Can somebody help me find that post or send me in the right direction. I really want to use a TA4 with a pilot light and safety valve to control my burner in my smoker.


----------



## dward51 (Jan 18, 2018)

It will very difficult to control a natural gas burner output like that from what I've seen.   A PID and SSR basically will pulse power to an electric heating element rapidly (with decreasing frequency as set point is approached).  An analog electrical element responds very differently to this type of control than a flame would.  Yes, you can ignite the flame and control a gas valve electrically, but the output will not be as precise nor as smooth as what can be done with an electric element.  With gas, it's full on or full off, where with electricity you can get very short pulses that do not fully heat the element.

If you google this, you will find a lot of discussions of controlling gas burners in the home brew (beer) forums all over the internet.   It can be done, but it appears to be more expensive and less precise than controlling a electric element from what I've seen.  Also the auto tune functions on the PID controller will probably not work, so you will be having to guess at the PID programming until you get close.  I think what you end up with is more like a analog controlled burner & thermostat, not a super precise PID temp band like you are expecting.  If the temp control is basically like it would be on a simple LP thermostat (which would cost much less to build or buy), what is gained by adding the PID and complicating the process?

A couple of forum posts here on this subject:

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/digital-temp-and-propane-conversion.156786/


----------



## Chris Jolly (Jan 18, 2018)

I saw a post so maybe they didn't use a PID??? I know they used a digital controller and now thinking about it, might have been adruno based. They used like a knob assembly from a gas heater that had the pilot light with the safety on it and then was just either on or off depending on the temp and would even wait a certain amount of time to settle. Have to hunt around. Maybe it's too much trouble than its worth... Got a SV24" the other day to replace my old electric smoker I just had got used to.


----------



## SonnyE (Jan 18, 2018)

Maybe one of these can help?
https://www.google.com/search?q=pid...ome..69i57.25110j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

or this?
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/wanna-build-a-pid-temp-controller-help.76879/

Note the SMF post is from 2009


----------



## motocrash (Jan 18, 2018)

I think this is the site you seek.I read the thread and started looking into it.
https://custompipeburners.com/Thermostat-Gas-Controls/13


----------



## SonnyE (Jan 18, 2018)

motocrash said:


> I think this is the site you seek.I read the thread and started looking into it.
> https://custompipeburners.com/Thermostat-Gas-Controls/13


 
Whew! Better be collecting more cans to shop there. :eek:


----------



## motocrash (Jan 18, 2018)

You can find the gas control valve and all parts much cheaper than there on the net.Thought I'd include that because the vid shows how it's all hooked up less the PID.


----------



## SonnyE (Jan 18, 2018)

Yep, pretty cool motocrash!



Curious... Anybody tried using a control from an old water heater?
When the tank goes, the control and burner is usually still working.


----------



## indaswamp (Jan 24, 2018)

SonnyE said:


> Curious... Anybody tried using a control from an old water heater?
> When the tank goes, the control and burner is usually still working.



I have seen it done. and this is my plan. I have access to an old RV refrigerator that ran on propane and plan to pull out the control valve and pilot.


----------



## SonnyE (Jan 25, 2018)

indaswamp said:


> I have seen it done. and this is my plan. I have access to an old RV refrigerator that ran on propane and plan to pull out the control valve and pilot.



Seems to me that a water heater control might work. Not highly accurately, but it might.
(I'm always thinking outside the box, because they wouldn't let me in the box.)


----------



## indaswamp (Jan 25, 2018)

I'm leaning towards a furnace control valve.....but I'm going to try the RV frig valve because it's free.


----------



## radio (Jan 28, 2018)

Subscribed.  I have a New Braunfels Bandera vertical I have thought about modifying to gas


----------



## jaxrmrjmr (Jan 28, 2018)

I looked into the same thing.  By the time I bought everything and spent time and money retrofitting all the parts....

This was cheaper...

link


----------



## SonnyE (Jan 28, 2018)

jaxrmrjmr said:


> I looked into the same thing.  By the time I bought everything and spent time and money retrofitting all the parts....
> 
> This was cheaper...
> 
> link



That's a cool lookin smoker.
Can it be converted to run on Natural Gas? (Change the jets)


----------



## indaswamp (Jan 28, 2018)

I will be saving between $4~5,000 on mine...

https://www.sausagemaker.com/100-lb-Stainless-Steel-Gas-Smoker-p/19-1017.htm

I'll have roughly $800 in it by the time I'm done with it...
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...ard-outhouse-smoker-build-pics-addded.261865/


----------



## indaswamp (Jan 29, 2018)

I'll add this here as well:
http://www.mechanicalcaveman.com/best-propane-burner-for-smoker-review-homemade-burner/


----------



## WillieOsgood (Oct 5, 2020)

Heard that controlling a natural gas burner by using a TA4 with a pilot and safety valve is an easy DIY task.

This video can help you: 

Brent Butterworth


----------

