# Ref; Help with Rubs..or am I defective?



## TomKnollRFV (Jul 6, 2018)

Alright, I'll admit so far, of all my cooks, even stuff like burgers where I add seasoning when flipping them, I've only truly had success with what would effectively look like enough garlic to choke the entire Twilight Series and Dawn of the Dead and a few dozen B Vampire movies.

Am I doing some thing wrong here with rubs? I can -never- taste the rub on stuff. I've done the sprinkle only method. I've actually gotten down and literally massaged and rubbed it in like I was kneading bread dough. I've gone heavy handed, light handed..let the rub sit for 24 hours. I just -never- taste the rub really. At this point I don't see why to do any thing but Salt. Pepper. Some brown sugar. 

Is there a secret I'm missing on how to make the meat pick up the flavour of the rub? When I make sausage, I can taste some of what I put in. Garlic..peppers, etc. But when it comes to dry rubbed meats, I haven't figure out how to taste the rub.

Or are my taste buds just that shot? I've been buying Kosmo-Q BBQ rubs etc, high end product <Or so I believe they are> and it isn't cheap, and I just can't taste them!


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## cal1956 (Jul 6, 2018)

what are you putting dry rub on ? ribs , pork roast ?brisket maybe ?


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## pc farmer (Jul 6, 2018)

I just sprinkle seasoning on.  I like to taste the meat.   I get a hint of the seasoning thou.


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## cal1956 (Jul 6, 2018)

another problem you might be having is over smoking your meat , if you over smoke it,  your not going to taste much of anything except soot


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## bdskelly (Jul 6, 2018)

I agree with Adam. Not knowing what meat you are seasoning Id say you may be using too much. B


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 6, 2018)

I put rub on any thing. But in this situation I'm referring to pork butts mostly. Because they form a bark. I never had meat taste sooty.

I'm not kidding though, I can't tell with any thing that forms a bark.

Nor can I really taste it when I foil ribs. Apple juice etc all tastes the same to me. I feel defective or missing some grand secret :(


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## cal1956 (Jul 6, 2018)

how thick is the "bark " that forms on your meat ? if its too thick its getting lost in the bark , try this 
season lightly,  smoke lightly then taste 
  something tells me your over cooking


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## KrisUpInSmoke (Jul 6, 2018)

I've seen instructions saying to sprinkle some of your rub on after its cooked. Maybe they have the same thing going on. Maybe that would bring out the rub flavor for you.
Maybe you could cut a rack in half or do two, one with and one without.
Also, do you or did you smoke cigarettes or chew? That changes taste sometimes.


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 6, 2018)

cal1956 said:


> how thick is the "bark " that forms on your meat ? if its too thick its getting lost in the bark , try this
> season lightly,  smoke lightly then taste
> something tells me your over cooking


Depends on the smoke. I've had some with more bark then others. I'll have to experiment I guess..


KrisUpInSmoke said:


> I've seen instructions saying to sprinkle some of your rub on after its cooked. Maybe they have the same thing going on. Maybe that would bring out the rub flavor for you.
> Maybe you could cut a rack in half or do two, one with and one without.
> Also, do you or did you smoke cigarettes or chew? That changes taste sometimes.


Also yah...used to smoke Pall Mall Menethols, about a pack a day, been on chantix for months now, maybe have half a cigarette when I leave the house out of habit. Problem is if I have a few cold ones at a bar then it turns into half a pack you know?

I'll have to just experiment I suppose. Maybe on this next pork butt I'll roll smoke for just 4-6 hours.


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## cansmoke (Jul 6, 2018)

1. For rubs to stick, put yellow mustard on for starters and then the rub. The rub sticks and hence more of it stays.
2. Many 'que books have rub recipes in them. Try those andf build from there.


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## dward51 (Jul 6, 2018)

If you are getting bark, sounds like the rub and any spritzing you are doing is working.  Try using a finishing sauce and sprinkle a little rub in the pulled pork when it's served.  Both will kick it up a notch.

I like SoFLaQer's finishing sauce as it has a few ingredients and is easy to make (and I think it works just great).  I've made it with the called for Tony Chachere's Cajun Seasoning and I've also substituted my standard pork rub.  Both work:

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/finishing-sauce-for-pulled-pork.49892/


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## pops6927 (Jul 6, 2018)

Become a non-smoker and non-drinker if you value your life.  From a 6-time stroke (and I have absolutely no idea why) survivor.  A whole new world awaits when you do!  Been 'clean' for 12 years now and alive; (but I did meet Jesus on my 3rd stroke).


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## KrisUpInSmoke (Jul 6, 2018)

TomKnollRFV said:


> Also yah...used to smoke Pall Mall Menethols, about a pack a day, been on chantix for months now, maybe have half a cigarette when I leave the house out of habit. Problem is if I have a few cold ones at a bar then it turns into half a pack you know?



Mmmm..hmmmm... that could be the culprit! I'm on chantix too...lol. I'm on the 4th pack, staying on it past the first 3 for another 3 to keep quit! Keep at it! Taste is improving, which is something to look forward too.


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 6, 2018)

cansmoke said:


> 1. For rubs to stick, put yellow mustard on for starters and then the rub. The rub sticks and hence more of it stays.
> 2. Many 'que books have rub recipes in them. Try those andf build from there.


Oh I do the mustard part. No worries there. I buy industrial bottles of yellow mustard from GFS.. LOL



pops6927 said:


> Become a non-smoker and non-drinker if you value your life.  From a 6-time stroke (and I have absolutely no idea why) survivor.  A whole new world awaits when you do!  Been 'clean' for 12 years now and alive; (but I did meet Jesus on my 3rd stroke).


Yah I pretty much decided beyond the occasional adult beverage, I don't really benefit from it. Like I'll pop the occasional bottle of Angry Orchard at home, but most adult beverages I buy is actually bought for cooking. I keep 3 bottles of wine on hand, but it's just for cooking. 

I seen people go from decent friends to people I don't want to admit to knowing because of drinking. Three Day Benders at random with an 8 year old at home and they honestly didn't know who was watching the kid, or if any one was. Stopped going out for a while, go out and it's like 'The same people, the same talk, the same BS..I'm drinking to literally kill time.'
<I have pretty close to dying my self, had spine surgery a few years ago and the neurosurgeon after told me due to complicated of calcified discs I had a 50/50 chance of walking. It was pretty much a coin toss when they were hacking a channel in my discs if the nerve would sit right again and not end up chronically inflamed and if I'd be walking properly. Still don't walk properly, but at least I can!>



KrisUpInSmoke said:


> Mmmm..hmmmm... that could be the culprit! I'm on chantix too...lol. I'm on the 4th pack, staying on it past the first 3 for another 3 to keep quit! Keep at it! Taste is improving, which is something to look forward too.


Today started my 6th month of Chantix, I see my Doc on the 12th, gonna ask him how long he wants me on it. I'm pretty nervous if I don't use it, it'll be a week or two before I slide right back into smoking.

At any rate, Since over smoking MIGHT be a culprit let me throw out a possible time table.

Say I do a 9 pound pork butt, which is the average size I find around here. I like to do it at 225f to 240f. <Because I try to let her go at 225f, but then the weather decides to go sideways on me and I run the temp up to 240f in some attempt to not let the rain get on my MES.>

In my experiences of this, because I don't foil, I just plan generally for 18 hours. Should I only roll smoke for 6? I almost always only use Apple and cherry. <I do have this Pitboss Competition Blend. The Walmart exclusive stuff - https://pitboss-grills.com/pellets/ >. I normally just roll smoke as per stuff I read online the entire time. ... is the other culprit perhaps that when I light pellets, I'm not getting TBS but heavier smoke? It's generally hard to tell at midnight if the smoke is TBS or not. <I have problems enough in the day because of my vision>. And if I do the pellet tray at full, thats a minimum of 8 hours.

I'm pretty OCD on cleaning my MES, I wipe down the back walls etc, scrap the window, and rub down around the door and vents etc. I really want to taste a rub on a pork butt for a change.

And Kris; I generally sprinkle some rub into the meat, but I'm pretty tight fisted.. like I go 'I already used like 4 dollars of rub on this.' and get like Arkwright from Open All Hours. 

PS; Ya'all keep these suggestions and critiques rolling or some one has to come up to WI and show me how do do this right some day LOL


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## cal1956 (Jul 6, 2018)

I've never smoked a pork butt more than 6-7 hours in my life 
and then i only have a heavy smoke going for the 1st and last hour 
 the temp i hold is 225 ,
 i get tender meat, good bark and oh yea i can always  taste the rub


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 6, 2018)

I just go by the 200 to 205f IT to pull. The shortest one I had was like 10-12 hour range still. And I have confirmed my MES 140s is accurate for temp. <Heck even the built in thermal probe is only off a few degrees!>.

So I shouldn't roll smoke as much as I do by far..


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## cal1956 (Jul 6, 2018)

TomKnollRFV said:


> The shortest one I had was like 10-12 hour range still.



no wonder you can't taste anything, i firmly believe that 90% of smoked meat is over cooked and over  smoked 
just my 2 cents


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 6, 2018)

cal1956 said:


> no wonder you can't taste anything, i firmly believe that 90% of smoked meat is over cooked and over  smoked
> just my 2 cents


It pulls apart fine and tastes great, it's just I can't taste the rub. <The bark it self tastes good too..but not a specific flavour. We'll see how the next cook goes!>


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## KrisUpInSmoke (Jul 6, 2018)

cal1956 said:


> I've never smoked a pork butt more than 6-7 hours in my life
> and then i only have a heavy smoke going for the 1st and last hour
> the temp i hold is 225 ,
> i get tender meat, good bark and oh yea i can always  taste the rub



You mean you only roll smoke for 6 or 7 hours or you only cook for 6 or 7 hours? A 7 hour cook at 225f had to result in slicing the butt, right? It would not be tender enough to pull. Unless it's like 3 pounds.


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 6, 2018)

KrisUpInSmoke said:


> You mean you only roll smoke for 6 or 7 hours or you only cook for 6 or 7 hours? A 7 hour cook at 225f had to result in slicing the butt, right? It would not be tender enough to pull. Unless it's like 3 pounds.


Was wondering that too. I like grilling pork loins in a pan for a while with olive oil and garlic salt on the bottom, same on top. Actually haven't done that in years. Now looking back I go 'man I was so not that good'. Though people liked them, they'd form a pretty dark bottom, not burnt persay..hard to say what it was.


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## gmc2003 (Jul 7, 2018)

The amount of time your actually putting smoke to the meat is entirely up to your tastes as is the type of wood used. As for the lack of rub flavor - well if your mopping or spritzing that could be causing the rub to run off the meat. If your getting a good bark(which I believe you said you were) then the individual spices are probably just melding together and you aren't able to distinguish the individual flavors. I normally just sprinkle SPOG over the meat and pat it in. I don't use mustard or anything else to adhere it to the meat. I also don't mop or spritz. I do foil, as my family isn't crazy about a heavy bark. When I foil I normally use just some type of liquid, and sprinkle some more SPOG over the meat. Also if your eating the meat the same day you smoked it your senses aren't as acute as they would be the next day. I should also add I don't use allot of wood when smoking three maybe four chunks(depending on size) in my 22 WSM. 

Chris


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## cal1956 (Jul 7, 2018)

sorry to disappoint you fellas , but no not ready to slice , tender enough to slide the bone out 
 a 10 lb pork butt will be ready to pull apart and make pulled pork in 6-7 hours   
i have never had to smoke anything other than a brisket longer than that 
and even a tough old brisket rarely take more than 10 hours 
i only have  smoke  coming out of my smoker for the 1st and last hour 
the rest of the time my smoker is basically an oven
i still get plenty of smoke flavor without it being over powering


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## AllAces (Jul 7, 2018)

You may have a zinc deficiency.


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## Rick Tyson (Jul 7, 2018)

When I smoke butts I rub them in olive oil, then liberally apply a rub, and let them sit over night. When they are done the flavor is fantastic.


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## dward51 (Jul 7, 2018)

On the other hand, my pork butt smokes all run from 16 to 20 hours at 225* (WSM with a BBQ Guru power draft).  Not oversmoked at all and constantly requested at office and family gatherings.  There is no way you get pulled pork in 6 to 7 hours at 225*, it just defies the laws of physics (unless your butts are very small or cut smaller to start with)


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 7, 2018)

AllAces said:


> You may have a zinc deficiency.


I guess I can take Zinc tablets to see if that helps!



gmc2003 said:


> The amount of time your actually putting smoke to the meat is entirely up to your tastes as is the type of wood used. As for the lack of rub flavor - well if your mopping or spritzing that could be causing the rub to run off the meat. If your getting a good bark(which I believe you said you were) then the individual spices are probably just melding together and you aren't able to distinguish the individual flavors. I normally just sprinkle SPOG over the meat and pat it in. I don't use mustard or anything else to adhere it to the meat. I also don't mop or spritz. I do foil, as my family isn't crazy about a heavy bark. When I foil I normally use just some type of liquid, and sprinkle some more SPOG over the meat. Also if your eating the meat the same day you smoked it your senses aren't as acute as they would be the next day. I should also add I don't use allot of wood when smoking three maybe four chunks(depending on size) in my 22 WSM.
> 
> Chris


Never spritzed or mopped. Saw no need. The MES is pretty well insulated to the point as Bear pointed out to me, I don't even need water in the water pan..



dward51 said:


> On the other hand, my pork butt smokes all run from 16 to 20 hours at 225* (WSM with a BBQ Guru power draft).  Not oversmoked at all and constantly requested at office and family gatherings.  There is no way you get pulled pork in 6 to 7 hours at 225*, it just defies the laws of physics (unless your butts are very small or cut smaller to start with)


I've never had any one mention I over smoked, that's never been the issue. It's just me being defective and not tasting much of the rub....and I'm with you. There isn't any way to do a pork butt for 6-7 hours at 225f hours and get results of the bone slides out. I can't see how either.


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## cal1956 (Jul 7, 2018)

TomKnollRFV said:


> I guess I can take Zinc tablets to see if that helps!
> 
> 
> Never spritzed or mopped. Saw no need. The MES is pretty well insulated to the point as Bear pointed out to me, I don't even need water in the water pan..
> ...


when i was in the BBQ business i didn't have time to waste over smoking anything , i would put several 10 lb boston butts on at once smoke heavy for the 1st hour and then just monitor the temp ( i used a certified food thermometer ) and smoke again heavy for the last hour , NEVER had to go over 8 hours before the bone would slide right out of the meat 
i did it for years ,  although i will admit  that if i wasn't paying attention the temp. might drift up to 130-135 on occasion  but 225 was what i always ran my smoker at ...sorry if you don't believe me


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## gmc2003 (Jul 7, 2018)

Alright I'm stumped, I vote for defective. :)

Chris


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## schlotz (Jul 7, 2018)

It takes a while before some of the dulled senses come back on line after you quit smoking. Patients, and it will eventually happen. The good news is you are on the right path, stay strong! In the mean time, see the rub in the butt recipe below. Don't know how the tongue will react to it but it might be worth a try.


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## TomKnollRFV (Jul 7, 2018)

gmc2003 said:


> Alright I'm stumped, I vote for defective. :)
> 
> Chris


I have been voting for defective too. Though I also get migraines from smelling any form of cleaner using bleach or chlorine. Maybe the smoke just overpowers every thing else. Who knows <Probably defective LOL>



schlotz said:


> It takes a while before some of the dulled senses come back on line after you quit smoking. Patients, and it will eventually happen. The good news is you are on the right path, stay strong! In the mean time, see the rub in the butt recipe below. Don't know how the tongue will react to it but it might be worth a try.


Well I had online friends do a vote for my next pulled pork and Sweet Heat dry rubbed with Root beer injection won. Course my dad was like 'Can we even smoke two butts at the same time?' and he got one and I'm going to inject it with Cajun Injector Creole Garlic and..who knows what rub. I plan to do apple smoke for 4-6 hours. <How ever long the pellets I put in the tray go> and thats it.


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