# What went wrong again



## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

I followed all the brisket smoking directions ... 4-pound brisket, trimmed, smoker was 250°, wireless four-prong thermometer at four hours it was 160°, I pulled it and wrapped it in butcher's paper, an hour later it was 175° and I pulled it off ... it was done and dry ... tasted okay ... there was no possible way I could have left it on any longer and no possible way it was going to get close to 200° ... just not sure what I did wrong again ... it was not tender?


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## Brokenhandle (Jul 3, 2022)

You pulled it way too soon! At 250 degrees it would have gotten to over 200...you want probe tender which could be 203, 206, 211 degrees.  It's gonna vary with each piece if meat. Don't be afraid to run your smoker at higher temps like 275.

Ryan


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## bigfurmn (Jul 3, 2022)

Needed to cook it longer. Brisket gets more tender the hotter it gets. The tissues (I know it’s not tissue but can’t think of the word right now) didn’t break down. Brisket needs to around 200IT to be juicy and tender.


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## JckDanls 07 (Jul 3, 2022)

nothing more that I can say that hasn't already been said...

UNDERCOOKED !!!!!

You say trimmed...  did you leave any fat on it ??
Once temps get high enough and the fat starts rendering down...  the meat soaks it in and this is what makes it moist/juicy ...  
You just didn't let the IT get high enough to start the rendering ..


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

Brokenhandle said:


> You pulled it way too soon! At 250 degrees it would have gotten to over 200...you want probe tender which could be 203, 206, 211 degrees.  It's gonna vary with each piece if meat. Don't be afraid to run your smoker at higher temps like 275.
> 
> Ryan


So if I left it on until it hit 195° wouldn't get more well done and dry out more?


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

JckDanls 07 said:


> nothing more that I can say that hasn't already been said...
> 
> UNDERCOOKED !!!!!
> 
> ...


I probably trimmed off way too fat ... DUH!


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

And my wood chips should be dry or wet?


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## normanaj (Jul 3, 2022)

Way undercooked as already stated.


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## pineywoods (Jul 3, 2022)

The guys have said it under cooked. Trim it but leave at least 1/4" fat I personally leave a little more. Believe it or not I have found I can usually smoke a brisket that weighs around 12 lbs in the same or less time than a 4 or 5 lb one.
You didn't say what kind of smoker you were using but you said chips personally I'd recommend an amazen smoker pellet tube you use pellets and can load it up and get it going and usually have good smoke the entire cook without having to mess with it at all.


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## cal1956 (Jul 3, 2022)

your wood chips should be DRY in  other words  the wood should be seasoned  wood  , wet chips produce white smoke which is mostly steam and will give your meat a bitter taste


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## bigfurmn (Jul 3, 2022)

B
 BWSabio

In the case of brisket, no. It will get more tender and juicey at 200+ degrees than at 175 degrees. It has to do with getting hot enough to break down the tough tissues.


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

cal1956 said:


> your wood chips should be DRY in  other words  the wood should be seasoned  wood  , wet chips produce white smoke which is mostly steam and will give your meat a bitter taste


Third time will b e a charm ... I HOPE ;-)


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

bigfurmn said:


> B
> BWSabio
> 
> In the case of brisket, no. It will get more tender and juicey at 200+ degrees than at 175 degrees. It has to do with getting hot enough to break down the tough tissues.


Definitely an 'ART' that takes time to get proficient at.


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## Marknmd (Jul 3, 2022)

bigfurmn said:


> B
> BWSabio
> 
> In the case of brisket, no. It will get more tender and juicey at 200+ degrees than at 175 degrees. It has to do with getting hot enough to break down the tough tissues.


Exactly.  It's counter-intuitive, but true.


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## bigfurmn (Jul 3, 2022)

BWSabio said:


> Definitely an 'ART' that takes time to get proficient at.


Next time you do one, post pictures and updates. The people here can help you get done right!


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

EXCELLENT ... I THOROUGHLY appreciate all the posts and help!!


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## JckDanls 07 (Jul 3, 2022)

BWSabio said:


> So if I left it on until it hit 195°



This is when you want to start PROBE TESTING... use your probe or a skewer or the like...  and start poking it in all over the place...  it should slide in like poking it in peanut butter...  no resistance ... then it's done ...


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## cal1956 (Jul 3, 2022)

a big part of learning to smoke  meat  is learning to tell when its done ,relax  we  have all  been  in your shoes !!!  some  on here relie on fancy temp probes and others have  just done it so long that we can tell by the feel  of the meat ...which  every way to choose just remember none of us learned it overnight  ......enjoy  the ride and happy smoking


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## noboundaries (Jul 3, 2022)

BWSabio said:


> So if I left it on until it hit 195° wouldn't get more well done and dry out more?


The above statement shows a confusion about muscles on a steer. There are lazy muscles that make steaks. There are hard-working muscles that are filled with tough, connective-tissue collagen that support the weight and movement of the animal. 

Steaks get dry and tough if overcooked beyond about 150°F internal temp. Anything labeled "eye," or cut from an eye roast, is a steak muscle. 

Collagen-filled muscles taste dry and tough if the collagen isn't melted by heat. Brisket is one of the hardest worked, highest collagen-filled muscles on the animal. 195°F is a minimum internal temp for brisket. Most, though, don't get tender until north of 200°F internal temp. I've had briskets get probe tender as low as 189°F, and not quite probe tender as high as 207°F. That's why you smoke collagen muscles to probe tender, using meat temp as a guide, not a destination.

Bottom line, anything labeled brisket or Chuck is filled with collagen. The one exception is a "chuck-eye" which will be one of the most tender, flavorful steaks you'll ever eat, and needs to be treated like steak, not chuck.


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

WOW an amazing statement and reply ... many thanks!


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## boykjo (Jul 3, 2022)

Everyone's got you covered. On another note its always good to use a remote thermometer in the cook chamber to verify your temps are true. I assume you smoked a flat at 4 Lbs. IMO they are harder to cook tender and not dry out due to the small size and how lean they are when trimmed from the butcher or a plant. A chamber off by 20-30 degrees can make a difference and speed up the time when the collagen and connective tissue breaks down. This can give you a dry and overcooked brisket flat


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## indaswamp (Jul 3, 2022)

bigfurmn said:


> Needed to cook it longer. Brisket gets more tender the hotter it gets. The tissues (I know it’s not tissue but can’t think of the word right now) didn’t break down. Brisket needs to around 200IT to be juicy and tender.


Collagen. That is the word you are looking for. It is tough and needs temps. above 180*F before it will breakdown. The collagen reacts with hot water molecules to create gelatin. 

To the O.P.- as the temperature of the meat approaches 180*F, the meat will tighten up and WILL be tough as leather! but once it starts passing through that magical 180*F, the bonds in the collagen start breaking down as it reacts with water. It takes hours above 180*F before it is tender. I have found that pulling a brisket @195-200*F  then 4-5 hour rest in a 180-200*F oven works best for me. Especially when I cook one for the guys at the firehouse.


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## bigfurmn (Jul 3, 2022)

indaswamp
 YES!!!! Thank you. Been bugging me all day.


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## BWSabio (Jul 3, 2022)

boykjo said:


> Everyone's got you covered. On another note its always good to use a remote thermometer in the cook chamber to verify your temps are true. I assume you smoked a flat at 4 Lbs. IMO they are harder to cook tender and not dry out due to the small size and how lean they are when trimmed from the butcher or a plant. A chamber off by 20-30 degrees can make a difference and speed up the time when the collagen and connective tissue breaks down. This can give you a dry and overcooked brisket flat


I assumed that smaller was easier ... ?


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## schlotz (Jul 3, 2022)

Really not so much of an art but rather gaining knowledge of the principles involved.  Small flats can be smoked with success but they are more finicky.  


 SmokinAl
 has a very good and proven version for them.  Brisket Flat, My Way


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