# mes temp control help please



## susieqz (Jan 24, 2015)

i just bought a 30'' mes on sale at tractor supply. today i seasoned it n started my first smoke at 3:00pm.

it's set for 140 n for a while it was staying in the 140s, but it's been creeping up into mid 150s.

i have a maze going n it's putting out lots of smoke, but i'd like to go to sleep without worrying about it.

right now, i have the chip loader mostly pulled out n the top vent open wide.

how do i reduce the heat n keep it constant? i tried narrowing the top vent but that seemed to make it hotter.

now that i puled out the loader n opened the top vent it's down to 149.

how can i keep it there? what does the top vent do?

i can't close it all the way because i have the maverick probe wire running thru it.

the funny thing is, as the outside air tem goes down, the smoker temp goes up.

as i  write this, i see the temp dropping, i guess because i removed the chip loader, but is that the way you operate this?


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## bregent (Jan 24, 2015)

I don't have a MES but as it's getting late and nobody else may be replying, I'll just say that a general rule of thumb for most smokers is that you want to keep the top vents open fully. You don't want smoke to get stale and you need good ventilation to prevent creosote, so don't try to regulate temps using the top vent. As far as the temp creeping up, just watch it for a while longer. My guess is that it will stabilize shortly.


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## susieqz (Jan 24, 2015)

k, thats good to know. thanks. still i see it creeping up again.

for that last 6 hours, it's been creeping up.

there must be away to stop it but i don't know how.

can you tell me when you would close the top vents?


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## bregent (Jan 24, 2015)

Once you have more experience with the smoker you might try closing the vent a bit to regulate the smoke. But as this is an electric with a thermostat, closing the vent will also allow heat to build up faster inside. This will cause the element to stay off longer, so it may end up generating less smoke. Why the temperature is rising far above set point in a thermostatically controlled electric is beyond me. How far above the set point have you seen it? Hopefully some MES experts will jump in here soon.


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## susieqz (Jan 24, 2015)

thanks, bre.

well, it's set at 140. so far it's gone up to 156.

the colder  it gets outside, the hotter it gets,

ijust went outside n it thinks the temp is 39, but the maverick says no.

well if it doesn;t rise faster, it won't be  ruined before i wake.

another 10-12 degrees will be more than i want but won;t wreck my experiment. i'm trying to cook it under 212, a la dave omak.


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## bregent (Jan 24, 2015)

So wait, is the 156 the reading on the MES display, or on your Maverick? What are you cooking?


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## foamheart (Jan 24, 2015)

Just wondering, is it a digital or an analog MES30? An analog will have a higher temperature fluctuation (or DT, Delta T), while attempting to hold an averaged temperature. It can swing 10 to 20 even 30 degrees easily in each direction trying to maintain an "averaged" temperature.

The digital acts more like a modulating sensor trying to compensate using the same swinging scale but with smaller incriments. So its not so wide a delta T.

Another good question, are you opening the door? Electrics don't require the moisture a firebreather does, hense no need for mopping, spritzing or saucing. But it also gives up the ability to rapid responce time. IF you open the door on an MES30, its said it takes up to 15 mins to recover. If you expect a 12 hour smoke and only open the door once and hour you have added 3 hours to the cooking time. I don't know about 15 mins, but i sure would believe 10.

The maverick probe, just allow the sending unit to set on top the MES, and the lead to fall thru the connection betwen the box and the door. The soft rubber seal with seal the slight misalignment and you'll have 100 percent use of your vent.

If you are cracking the reload tube for the AMPs to get suction, try opening the discharge slightly more and it should compensate and you may or may not need to leave the tube cracked. If you have chips in the tray, and they did happen to flash, it can blow that reloader out the box and in the yard. Its why it locks in place when not in use. If no chips, no need to worry.

Remember, its a smoker, not an oven, 10 to 15 degrees is nothing in the grand scheme of the smoke.

If you have not already, you need to calibrate the sensing elements to ensure that what you see if what you are getting. You can use your maverick, if you have already calibrated it.

Good luck, and it will be ok. Patience grasshopper.


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2015)

The MES display says 39 and the MAV says 156 ??? 

Do you have the chip pan slid inside the smoke, sitting on the element...  and the chip chute pulled out about 1 1/2".....  and the AMNPS is smoking OK.....  and the water pan is sitting where it should be with NO water in it and lined with foil....

What did the MES temp show when you burned it out on high for a couple hours...  If it did not show the correct temps, MAYBE when you assembled the unit, you did not get the wires plugged in correctly when you put the display on the smoker...


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## susieqz (Jan 25, 2015)

this is digital. i have removed the chip loader entirely because the temp kept increasing. this happened a few hours into the smoke. for the first few hours it stayed in the 140s, then moved up.

i didn't assemble this. it's a floor model from tractor supply. they assembled it.

once i removed the chip loader the temp stabilized at what it thinks is 140, but the maverick says that's 154.

dave, i meant 139.

 pops thanks for the tip about putting the probe thru the door. i'll do that but it won't help me use the upper vent because i have no idea what the vent does.

bre, i'm doing a butt using  my guru's [dave's] methods.

 i'm gonna try an expirement. gonna reinsert the chip loader because it's messy sitting there.

by the way in the past 9 hours i opened the door once.


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## susieqz (Jan 25, 2015)

well, i reinserted the chip tray it's in loose. the temp jumped to the 170s. since the butt has been in there 15 hours i don't mind this but i wish i understood it.

get this. the maverick says the temp went to 170 with the chip loader installed but the mes still reports 140. it read 139-140 when the maverick said 154.

i'm sure this is not possible but i'm awake n don't think i'm hallucinating.


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2015)

The chip chute out 1 1/2"......  TURN THE TEMPERATURE DOWN TO 120.....  IT OPERATES ON A THERMOSTAT.....   IF YOU HAVE 30 DEGREE AIR ENTERING THE SMOKER, THE THERMOSTAT KEEPS THE HEAT ON......

Think like it is your oven....   if you open the door, the element stays on and the oven temp goes up....


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## susieqz (Jan 25, 2015)

k, i'll do that but don't understand.  the more i close the chute the cooler it will be?

but, when i had it removed, the temp was 154. when i put it in it jumped to 171-2.

it was out 1/2'' now i went out n it's out 1 1/2'' like you said.


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2015)

There is a thermostat in the smoker that WILL control the temp...... turn it down to 120 and the smoker should run at 137.......

Todd recommends the chute be out 1 1/2" for adequate air for the AMNPS...  and the exhaust wide open....


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## susieqz (Jan 25, 2015)

yeah, it's around 135 now. i'm hoping it will be 15 degrees off no matter what i set.

i'm gonna try 175 to see if i get 190 soon.

the amns is burned out. not adding more smoke.


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2015)

It will take awhile to stabilize the MES temps....   The MES therm temps are affected by incoming cold air....  cold meat...  etc... the variations between the 2 reading will vary....   

When I run my MES...  it has a dimmer switch operating the heating element...  the heating element NEVER turns off...   I regulate the temp by regulating the wattage of the element.....   The internal therm and the remote therm are usually within 5 degrees because of that type of temp control.....

Which makes no difference when cooking food... the food rack temp is all you need to control the temp...


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## Bearcarver (Jan 25, 2015)

This whole thread is very confusing to me---

Is this a Gen #1 or a Gen #2 MES???

What are you smoking that you had your MES set at 140°???

Where did you see recommendations for closing your MES top Vent???

Bear


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## susieqz (Jan 25, 2015)

i'm screwed. this thing is defective. i set it to 180 to see what would happen. the mes reads 182, the maverick reads 182.  it is not consistant. 15 degrees off at140, spot on at 180.

bear, the manual doesn't say what generation it is.

i'm slow cooking a small butt.

i've never seen recomendations for using the top vent n have no idea how to use it.


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## daveomak (Jan 25, 2015)

It's not defective....  use the mav to adjust the smoker temp.... then it will control the smoker temp.....   Check your in house oven some time... it doesn't read the same as a remote therm......


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## Bearcarver (Jan 25, 2015)

susieqz said:


> i'm screwed. this thing is defective. i set it to 180 to see what would happen. the mes reads 182, the maverick reads 182.  it is not consistant. 15 degrees off at140, spot on at 180.
> 
> bear, the manual doesn't say what generation it is.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but:

I've been to all the conversations you've had with Daricksta. He and others covered all these things.

All of these things have been covered hundreds of times on all of the MES pages.

#1   The Gen #1 has the controls in a box that mounts on the top, back of the smoker. Gen #2 has the controls built into the front of the top.

#2   Being 15 Degrees off between the MES and a Maverick is normal for any MES, and exceptional if it's a Gen #2. Both the MES and the Maverick in the MES don't stay the same for longer than a minute at a time, so I'm sure if they were both at 182° when you wrote that, they were a lot different a few minutes later.

I'm betting you ignored people saying to leave your top vent wide open 100s of times.

AND  You should never smoke any uncured Butt at 140° smoker temp----Most people say no lower than 200°, unless it's cured.

You can't just ask a lot of questions----You have to listen to the answers.

Bear


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## susieqz (Jan 25, 2015)

this must be a generation one. the top vent has been 100% open all along.

the fact remains, at the 140 setting it runs 155 n at the 180 setting it runs at 180ish.

you are giving me a hard time. i do listen, but i make my own decisions.

where, exactly, has this odd temp variance  been covered?

can't find the conversation with daricksta right now.


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## old sarge (Jan 25, 2015)

If the controls are on the top rear of the unit, it should be a GEN 1. The Maverick probe should be as close to the position as the built-in probe so they are reading temperature from the same location relative to the heating element.  Try that without the AMNPS being in the unit.  In other words  experiment using the instructions that came with the unit. The vent should be open to regulate airflow and smoke; the chip loader needs to be fully in, not half way. This is per the manufacturers instructions. And again, this is all without using or inserting the AMNPS. Get familiar with the smoker.  Try a rack of ribs at 225 degrees.  Get to know your smoker. As for the maverick, boil water and get a pan of ice water. Boiled water should register 212 degrees; the ice water 32 degrees. If it doesn't your Maverick is off. When the smoke dissipates, reload the chips via the chip loader.  After 5 hours, enjoy the ribs.

At 225 degrees, a butt can take 10 hours or as much as 16 hours, depending upon the weight ( my experiences). 140 degrees is typically a keep warm temperature.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 25, 2015)

susieqz said:


> this must be a generation one. the top vent has been 100% open all along.
> 
> the fact remains, at the 140 setting it runs 155 n at the 180 setting it runs at 180ish.
> 
> ...


Maybe this will help---I don't feel like looking up where I said it before.
If I set my MES for 225°, when it gets there it shuts off, but the temp will coast anywhere from 10° to 30° (more in the Summer than in the Winter).

Then it will fall back until it hits 223°.

Then the heat will come on again, but the temp of the smoker might continue to drop up to 15° or 25°, before it begins to climb again. (Less in the Summer than the Winter)

Each time it rises & falls those amounts lessen, because they aren't following a long run of temp change.

The Maverick changes quicker & goes farther, because it's not built into the back wall & is more sensitive.

If the MES was as sensitive as the Maverick, it would be starting and stopping all the time.

This is one of the reasons for the difference in temp readings between the Mav & the MES.

Best thing for you to do is ignore your MES reading & go by the Maverick readings. We all do that.

The other question: Where did you learn to smoke an uncured Butt at 140° smoking temp.

Bear


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## lovespicyfood (Jan 25, 2015)

I have a GEN 1 digital 30" MES and I get pretty similar fluctuations like you, at times it is up to ~15 degrees off.  It seems to me the fluctuations are most apparent when I just turn it on and then it tends to settle down.  If I don't mess w/ it, it will stay pretty close to the Mavrik.  If I open the door, the fluctuation will once again become pretty wide.  I must note, I use the cold smoker attachment so I'm not taking the chute loader out every half hour.

If you're not happy with the fluctuations, then take it back.  I wouldn't get another MES, though, as the temp variations are commonplace from what I've read here.

I was really disappointed with this fluctuation when I first got my MES, but then I cooked a few things and found that obsessing over it didn't affect my results.  I have had some fantastic smokes and I really enjoy this as a hobby!  Now I am constantly scanning the meat aisles of every grocery store and looking at what my next smoke will be!  It's really quite fun!


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## foamheart (Jan 25, 2015)

Lovespicyfood said:


> I have had some fantastic smokes and I really enjoy this as a hobby!  Now I am constantly scanning the meat aisles of every grocery store and looking at what my next smoke will be!  It's really quite fun!


Heres the real test, what's the butcher's first name and do you have his cell on speed dial?


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## Bearcarver (Jan 25, 2015)

Lovespicyfood said:


> I have a GEN 1 digital 30" MES and I get pretty similar fluctuations like you, at times it is up to ~15 degrees off.  It seems to me the fluctuations are most apparent when I just turn it on and then it tends to settle down.  If I don't mess w/ it, it will stay pretty close to the Mavrik.  If I open the door, the fluctuation will once again become pretty wide.  I must note, I use the cold smoker attachment so I'm not taking the chute loader out every half hour.
> 
> If you're not happy with the fluctuations, then take it back.  I wouldn't get another MES, though, as the temp variations are commonplace from what I've read here.
> 
> I was really disappointed with this fluctuation when I first got my MES, but then I cooked a few things and found that obsessing over it didn't affect my results.  I have had some fantastic smokes and I really enjoy this as a hobby!  Now I am constantly scanning the meat aisles of every grocery store and looking at what my next smoke will be!  It's really quite fun!


All electric varies like that---Not just MES.

On Christmas day I put my Maverick in my Kitchen Stove, because I wanted to do a huge Double Smoked Ham in it with the same low temps I use with my MES. That was the first time I ever put my Maverick in my Kitchen Oven, and it was 25° off. I had to turn it up to 275° to get the oven up to 250°. No big deal since we all had Math in school.

Here's where it is & you can see the notation I made about it in the post:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/174993/christmas-at-the-bear-den

Bear


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## old sarge (Jan 25, 2015)

Good luck in your endeavors.


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## daricksta (Jan 27, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> All electric varies like that---Not just MES.
> 
> On Christmas day I put my Maverick in my Kitchen Stove, because I wanted to do a huge Double Smoked Ham in it with the same low temps I use with my MES. That was the first time I ever put my Maverick in my Kitchen Oven, and it was 25° off. I had to turn it up to 275° to get the oven up to 250°. No big deal since we all had Math in school.
> 
> ...


You brought up a very good tip here, one I thought of during the holidays. The Maverick is not only for smoking; no reason it can't be used when roasting meat in the kitchen oven. I didn't use mine over the holiday season only because we have instant read therms we use in the kitchen.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 27, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> You brought up a very good tip here, one I thought of during the holidays. The Maverick is not only for smoking; no reason it can't be used when roasting meat in the kitchen oven. I didn't use mine over the holiday season only because we have instant read therms we use in the kitchen.


Yup, I only did it because I wanted to cook that Ham with the same temps I use in my Smoker, and I didn't want to be opening the door until it was done.

If I wouldn't have done that, I never would have known my Oven was 25° off, and wouldn't have known I had to turn it up to 275° to get an actual 250° oven temp.

Bear


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## daricksta (Jan 28, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Yup, I only did it because I wanted to cook that Ham with the same temps I use in my Smoker, and I didn't want to be opening the door until it was done.
> 
> If I wouldn't have done that, I never would have known my Oven was 25° off, and wouldn't have known I had to turn it up to 275° to get an actual 250° oven temp.
> 
> Bear


I had something kinda similar happen with the boneless ribeye roast I cooked for Christmas dinner (I posted about this elsewheres). I was using a Food Network (made by Taylor) single probe therm that I used to use for smoking. My target IT was 125-130° with a carryover to 135°. The therm said the IT was 125°. I double checked it with my CDN Thermapen clone and the actual IT was 135°. I quickly took the roast out, foiled it over and let it rest. It turned out perfectly; some of the people who were our dinner guests still tell me that was the best ribeye "prime rib" roast they ever had.

My point is had I trusted that inaccurate FN therm, the roast would have been overcooked. And to think I trusted that therm for my first year of smoking. No wonder much of what I took out of my MES 30 was overcooked.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 28, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> I had something kinda similar happen with the boneless ribeye roast I cooked for Christmas dinner (I posted about this elsewheres). I was using a Food Network (made by Taylor) single probe therm that I used to use for smoking. My target IT was 125-130° with a carryover to 135°. The therm said the IT was 125°. I double checked it with my CDN Thermapen clone and the actual IT was 135°. I quickly took the roast out, foiled it over and let it rest. It turned out perfectly; some of the people who were our dinner guests still tell me that was the best ribeye "prime rib" roast they ever had.
> 
> My point is had I trusted that inaccurate FN therm, the roast would have been overcooked. And to think I trusted that therm for my first year of smoking. No wonder much of what I took out of my MES 30 was overcooked.


Yup---You could have checked your inaccurate FN therm in boiling water, but since this was the first time I ever put my Maverick in my Kitchen oven, I never new it was wrong. It would be pretty hard to pick up my Kitchen oven & dip it in boiling water to check it. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			






I never even thought of the possibility that the oven could be 25° wrong, but I'll know better in the future.

Bear


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## daricksta (Jan 28, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> Yup---You could have checked your inaccurate FN therm in boiling water, but since this was the first time I ever put my Maverick in my Kitchen oven, I never new it was wrong. It would be pretty hard to pick up my Kitchen oven & dip it in boiling water to check it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought the Maverick Laser Surface Therm and some time I'm going to open the oven door and shoot a beam into it just to check the accuracy of the oven temp display. I know it's gotta be immediate and I don't have to open the oven door very far. Just been too lazy to do it. The laser therm is invaluable for checking the temp in a charcoal kettle grill--which I own.


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## Bearcarver (Jan 28, 2015)

daRicksta said:


> I bought the Maverick Laser Surface Therm and some time I'm going to open the oven door and shoot a beam into it just to check the accuracy of the oven temp display. I know it's gotta be immediate and I don't have to open the oven door very far. Just been too lazy to do it. The laser therm is invaluable for checking the temp in a charcoal kettle grill--which I own.


LOL---I got a Laser Therm too, but I rarely use it. When "Smokey" our cat hears me open the Velcro pouch it came in, he goes nuts, because I shoot the Beam all around the room. He loves to chase the little red dot-----Forever!!!   SHHHHHhhhhh---Smokey's sleeping right now!!

Bear


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## foamheart (Jan 28, 2015)

Most folks are surprized when they stick a good thermometer into an oven they always assumed was perfect temp.


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## inkjunkie (Jan 28, 2015)

Lovespicyfood said:


> I was really disappointed with this fluctuation when I first got my MES, but then I cooked a few things and found that obsessing over it didn't affect my results.



This describes me to a letter. Please don't take this as an attempt to "stir the pot" as that is not my intention but.....

Take the Maverick Probe that you have in the smoking chamber out, roll it up and tuck it away someplace safe. It is only going to cause you undue stress. Learn to trust the MES controls and just let it do it's thing. Monitor the IT of the meat and relax. Keep in mind that the controls on it are not some high end, ultra accurate digital whiz bang stuff. It is a simple electronic smoker, nothing more, noting less...


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## inkjunkie (Jan 28, 2015)

Bearcarver said:


> LOL---I got a Laser Therm too, but I rarely use it. When "Smokey" our cat hears me open the Velcro pouch it came in, he goes nuts, because I shoot the Beam all around the room. He loves to chase the little red dot-----Forever!!!   SHHHHHhhhhh---Smokey's sleeping right now!!
> 
> 
> Bear


Our Redbone Coonhounds love that little red dot. Can aim it at the floor and move it to the doggy door. They will chase it right out the doggy door....Good times.....


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## rgautheir20420 (Jan 28, 2015)

inkjunkie said:


> This describes me to a letter. Please don't take this as an attempt to "stir the pot" as that is not my intention but.....
> 
> Take the Maverick Probe that you have in the smoking chamber out, roll it up and tuck it away someplace safe. It is only going to cause you undue stress. Learn to trust the MES controls and just let it do it's thing. Monitor the IT of the meat and relax. Keep in mind that the controls on it are not some high end, ultra accurate digital whiz bang stuff. It is a simple electronic smoker, nothing more, noting less...


inkjunkie, I completely agree with you on the fact that sometimes we need to just relax and set the controls. I do think that it's good to know what the actual temperature of the chamber is, but it's sometimes puzzling when I see so many people mad about the fact that the temp on the MES readout is off a 15 degrees or so. If it was WAY off then a controller issue is happening, but the reality is you get what you pay for here. A solid smoker with decent controls. 

Using your Maverick (or other therm), if you know what the + and - is then just set it based on that. And as suzei has seen, it might be closer to the set temp at 180 then it is at 140...and this isn't uncommon either.


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