# Brisket flavor/marinade idea?



## meltyface (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm starting to crave a brisket and will probably be cooking one in the next few days, I'm just tired of eating one with the marinade I usually use and want to try something new.  I usually marinade in concoction of beer, A-1, a few spices, and garlic.  It tastes decent but it's not the perfect taste I want, i think it may be the beer (IDK).  Anyway any new ideas would be great.


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## rivet (Oct 10, 2011)

Hi Melty, and thanks for asking!

I went through that phase a couple of years ago and spent a lot of time in research of the "ubiquitous texas barbecue" meaning... The Brisket.

Long story short there is no magical, mystical wand nor horn that texans will wave over your 'cue to make it great. 

YOU make it great no matter whree you are, and the basics are the same, no matter what.

Yeah, I know Texans are shrieking right now, emphasizing history and pits and al that other Tejano past, but the fact is great brisket barbecue left Texas about 50 years ago and populated the rest of the country, Don't believe it?  Check out the brisket posts on JUST THE SMF and see if that is not the case.

Anyway, to your point. Try injecting with beef broth. Inject that brisket with about 2 cups of store bought or home made beef broth the night before you smoke.

Try rubs with little or no salt at all. It is amazing how (badly) salt when used in a rub affects a brisket. I still am trying to come to terms with this, as smoking a brisket nekkid, with just kosher salt and CBP is great. I suppose rubs have a lot of hidden salts and or sodium in them...I don't know for sure, but I do know from experience.

The common thread I read about and hear about all the time seems to me, to be distilled to the fact that folks are not happy with the flavor..they are missing something.

What they are missing is the the TASTE OF MEAT.

I don't know when or where the rub-the-hell-out-of-the-meat-and-then-slosh-the-sauce-on-it-heavily school started, but that is NOT what smoking is about, in my opinion.

Smoking should ENHANCE the flavour of the meat.

Anyway, shoot your meat with broth, rub mildly if you must, and try it. Give it a shot. If you hate it, I am thinking that I may just well mail you the money for the price of the brisket, but I don't think I will ever need to do that.


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## meltyface (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks for the input.  I think that may be my problem, I may be trying to overcomplicate the flavors.  I will definetly try this approach.  I'm from Texas myself, but believe it or not, one of my top 5 briskets came from a gas station/bbq joint in Norman called Rudy's.  So I do believe that good BBQ can be found anywhere...however I haven't found anything edible in Alabama or Florida yet.

Back to the topic...the beef broth, is it the beef boulion (?spelling) cubes or any preferred brand?  Also my grandma's boyfriend injects with a little liquid smoke as well, any thoughts on that?


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## miamirick (Oct 10, 2011)

if your grocer has it   PIRATES GOLD is a wonderful marinade        give it a shot


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## SmokinAl (Oct 11, 2011)

We like Montreal steak seasoning for the rub.


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## rivet (Oct 11, 2011)

Meltyface said:


> Thanks for the input.  I think that may be my problem, I may be trying to overcomplicate the flavors.  I will definetly try this approach.  I'm from Texas myself, but believe it or not, one of my top 5 briskets came from a gas station/bbq joint in Norman called Rudy's.  So I do believe that good BBQ can be found anywhere...however I haven't found anything edible in Alabama or Florida yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Back to the topic...the beef broth, is it the beef boulion (?spelling) cubes or any preferred brand?  Also my grandma's boyfriend injects with a little liquid smoke as well, any thoughts on that?



Got to laugh at the 'bama, Fla note! That's so true  :biggrin:

I use beef broth, the ones labeled 99% fat free and come in a 14 oz can....I forget the brand but it's not progresso I know that....it is the mid price range one though I have used store brand ones too and they work fine. I've never used the stuff labeled "beef consomme" but that's only clarified broth so it should be ok too, I guess it is just milder.

I stay away from liquid smoke because it gives things a bitter, almost creosoty flavor, to me. Other folks can't tell. But, it is salty so I would recommend against it if you are going to smoke your brisket outside. Natural smoke is better.

With that said, there's nothing wrong with cheating a bit using liquid smoke if you are going to make a brisket in the oven. I know a lot of folks who make brisket braised in beer in the oven and use liquid smoke and the brisket is darn good. It's just different, and I sure wouldn't call it barbecued. They use guinness beer for the liquid.

Hope this helps and good smoking to you!


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## smokin vegas (Oct 11, 2011)

I like to mainate in just plain 4 cups of apple juice, 1 cup of brown sugar 1/8 cup salt for 3 to 5 days.  Then make a rub of beef boullion that is in a paste form 3 tablespoons, 1 teaspoons garlic, teaspoon onion,  1 tablespoon thyme androsemary or Italian seasoning.  Rub on drained meat and smoke.  Place in baking dish then  I add a cup of wine red or white I like 1/2 bottle of apple beef and 1/2 cup red wine and  pour it over the meat meat and smoke.


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## roller (Oct 11, 2011)

I am with you Rivet to much song and dance on all these rubs put on meat a inch thick....Keep It Simple...is my motto !!!  I like the good ol taste of meat !!!


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## meltyface (Oct 11, 2011)

Smokin Vegas, I've been thinking about using apple juice on my brisket, because I use it on all my pork and it turns out great.  I'm extremelly happy with how my pork ribs turn out, so using it on beef may not be a bad idea. 

With all of these ideas do ya'll just baste/spritz with the juices coming from the meat throughout the cook, or do you make a seperate sauce for that?


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 11, 2011)

Rivet has your back on this...I just wanted to add...Boullion Cubes or Granules are 97% salt and can be used in place of Salt in Rubs but are a poor choice for reconstituting and Injecting. Most Grocery Stores carry 2 or 3 brands of Beef and Chicken  Broth in 14 oz Cans and 48 oz Boxes. Some stores carry Low Sodium as well...These  commercial products are good but HOME MADE is cheap and easy too!

Home Made Stock:

If there is a Full Service Butcher near you...ask for some Beef Joints, split...these may be free or less than 99 Cents a pound...Roast the Bones, 2-3 joints, 1-2 Large Onions, halved, 3 Carrots, cut up, 3 Ribs Celery, cut up, in a roasting pan at 450*F oven until well Browned, 30-40 minutes...Dump all into a large Stock Pot, add  2 Cups of  Hot Water to the Roasting pan and stir Scaping the bottom to dissolve all the Drippings, add this to the Stock Pot... Add 1-2 Gallons Cold Water, and any Herbs or Spices you like, Bayleaf, Thyme, Black Pepper, Cumin, Chili Powder, 1/2 to 1 teaspoon will be plenty...Bring all up to Just the Boiling point, then reduce the heat to Med-Low and Simmer, Skimming any Nasty looking Stuff that floats to the top, a Minimum of 3 hours, to 8+ hours, longer the Better. Add Some Salt, 1-2 teaspoons, at this point, but go easy as you may be using it in some recipe where it will be Cooked Down and become TOO salty...Strain to remove the Solids and Chill over night in the Stock pot or Roasting Pan, remove the layer of Solid Fat that forms on top and use Your Home Made Stock as desired for Injecting, Au Jus or making Gravy...If your Butcher/Store does not have Bones...Cheap-o Beef Shin/Shank meat, can be sustituted or even in addition to Bones...It may sound involved but this Stock is WAY BETTER than the canned stuff and can be Frozen in 2-4 Cup containers for use as needed.  BTW...The Same Procedure is used with Chicken Backs, or Leftover Thanksgiving Turkey Bones...JJ


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## roller (Oct 11, 2011)

Beef Stock at Walmart 1.68 qt.


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## africanmeat (Oct 11, 2011)

Hi Melty if you like a hot and spicy brisket this is a great one  (i got it from amazingribs ))

Rub it with oil then with

3 tablespoon ground black pepper
2 tablespoons table salt
1 tablespoon granulated white sugar
1 tablespoon onion powder
2 teaspoons mustard powder
2 teaspoons garlic powder
2 teaspoons chili or ancho powder
1 teaspoon chipotle or cayenne powder

wrapped with clean wrap

and leave it over night


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## meltyface (Oct 11, 2011)

Just my luck.  I just got back from the store after buying a really nice brisket and I just found out it's going to rain for the next few days...hopefully I can cook it this Saturday.  I'm thinking of going very simple this time, beef broth and a little apple juice...no rub.


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## venture (Oct 11, 2011)

X2 on JJ's suggestion for your own stock.  Bones should be very short on meat and fat for the best stock.  Start with cold water and heat it slowly.  Several hours at an extremely slow simmer (just a bubble now and then).  Be sure to skim AND defat. Strain through cheesecloth or fryer filters a couple of times. You will have the best stock you have ever tasted.

X2 on Rivet, also.  The more I smoke, the simpler things get.  I love the taste of carefully smoked meat!

Good luck and good smoking.


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## mneeley490 (Oct 11, 2011)

If you're set on a marinade, I did one last summer that was a big hit. Use a Kalbi marinade. This is like a Korean teriyaki sauce. You can sometimes find it in grocery stores, but it is usually pretty pricey, unless you find it in powder form. You can also comb the web for recipes; I looked at several recipes online and then combined the ingredients from 2 or 3 of them. Inject and marinate for 1-3 days before you barbecue. My 20 year old daughter called it "beef candy", and thought it was the best brisket I had made yet.


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## meltyface (Oct 11, 2011)

Oh, one thing I forgot to ask.  With the beef stock, should I just inject it and cook it, or let it marinate for a few hours with the injections before cooking?


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## rivet (Oct 11, 2011)

Melty, I usually inject the night before I smoke the brisket....around 9 PM and am up at 4 getting the fire started so the meat goes on about 5 AM. You can inject right before putting it on the smoker, but there will be some run-off from the injection and it will drip all over. You may want to wait a couple hours to avoid some mess, but that's your call. Either way is good. If you are injecting and waiting overnight, make sure the broth you are injecting is room temp or colder.

Once you get the hang of it you'll want to make your own broths, as Venture and Jimmy said...it is real good, but you want to cool down your broth before injecting. Trick is to let the broth sit in the fridge overnight, then next morning defat it, and then inject it cold.

Good smoking on your brisket!


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## smokin vegas (Oct 11, 2011)

Try cranberry juice the 2 cups each 100% Cranberry juice and ginger ale, one cup dark brown packed in measuring cup, 1 teas. garlic powder and 1 tesp onion powder and 1 tespo poultry seasoning, and 1/4 cup of salt on a whole turkey breast.  Marinate for 3 days.  I like the juice because it tenderizes the meat so much and adds flavor and moisture.  

I want to try pineapple juice and brown sugar and marniate ham for 3 days and then smoke for double smoked ham.  May even add some cloves to that.

Sometimes I just like plain too.  When I go into a carnivous fenzie I don't like anyone to mess with my steak or prime rib.  Hubby says when I am in that state and he takes me to the Beliago buffet it's like watching a loiness stalk a gazelle as I approach the prime rib table..


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## smokin vegas (Oct 11, 2011)

This is a wonderful terykai recipe if you don't have one

1 cup of kikoman soy sauce

2 cups brown sugar

2 cups of saki or beer

1 teas fresh grated ginger I use 1 tablespoon because I love ginger

1/2 teas ground cloves

1/4 teaspoon  garlic powder

Marinate for 8-24 hours.  Great on any meat chicken, beef, pork, or duck .  I serve it with rice of course.  And I take the marinated and boil it for 5 to 10 minutes and serve it on the rice.


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## moikel (Oct 11, 2011)

Chef Jimmy J has stock covered,it freezes well in whatever size container suits you.I use gatorade bottles & just cut bottle off with a bread knife. Veal neck makes great stock if you have a butcher who is breaking down whole bodies.


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## meltyface (Oct 11, 2011)

I think after get my brisket fix, I'm gonna try my hand at a whole pig.  I found out that my butcher sells small hogs that should be able to fit in my pit, and I've been dying to try my hand at that.

by the way thanks for all the input.  Whatever I don't use this go around, I'll definetly be using in the near future.


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## SmokinAl (Oct 12, 2011)

Good luck & don't forget the Q-view!


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## meltyface (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm kinda mad at my butcher today..I pulled the celophane off my brisket today and noticed the butcher cut off 99% of the fat layer, when all I wanted him to do is thin it out a little (it WAS a little too fatty)..  Anyone have any tips on how to prevent this meat from becoming to dry?  I'm pretty sure I'm going to sear it real good in a hot pan then try injecting it with the broth again tomorrow after I do that.  And I may even toss it in a shallow aluminum pan for the first few hours to soak up some of the juices it's going to lose...idk


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## eman (Oct 12, 2011)

If you sear it first you will prevent a lot of the smoke absorbtion.  why do you want to sear it?


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## rivet (Oct 12, 2011)

Meltyface said:


> I'm kinda mad at my butcher today..I pulled the celophane off my brisket today and noticed the butcher cut off 99% of the fat layer, when all I wanted him to do is thin it out a little (it WAS a little too fatty)..  Anyone have any tips on how to prevent this meat from becoming to dry?  I'm pretty sure I'm going to sear it real good in a hot pan then try injecting it with the broth again tomorrow after I do that.  And I may even toss it in a shallow aluminum pan for the first few hours to soak up some of the juices it's going to lose...idk



Hi Melty,

You might want to consider this alternate method to searing your brisket. Inject it first, overnight, or just prior, whatever, then sear it over hot charcoals immediately before smoking. Many folks have done this to great results. Personally, I have not, but once I get another smaller grill, you better believe I will be doing this! 

No need for a fry pan.

Regarding your purchase of a brisket, sounds like you had your butcher cut you a flat. No worries, next time you know to state how much fat cap you want left on, right? Another tip is that you might want to look at buying the "full packer brisket" that comes in the slaughterhouse "cryovac" packaging as an integral unit. It is just the entire brisket, point and flat, mildly trimmed, and packed in a shrink plastic package (the cryovac).

You can save a lot of money by purchasing brisket this way.

You trim it to your liking at home and can separate the point from the flat if you are that kind of smoker.

You shouldn't wory about the brisket being too dry if you follow  this thread, as well as any general technique you can find on a "search" here at the SMF. Just type in brisket and you will have more guidance than you can handle.

Relax, this is just meat and the cavemen have been feeding happy cave-families for thousands of years. Smoking is not rocket science. Just do it and enjoy it.

If you need any help, please PM me and I will be glad to help you as you smoke...really. I'll be here.

Good TBS to you!


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## smokin vegas (Oct 12, 2011)

You planning on hosting a block party?  LOL!!!!


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## meltyface (Oct 12, 2011)

I was originally thinking of searing it due to the fact that there is a loack of a fat layer, but after the input you guys just gave me, I'll stop worrying about it and just smoke it as usual.  I was just worried about it losing to much moisture and juices but I'll trust in the meat and injected juices to hold out.  Plus it's got a pretty good amount of marbling, who knows I may even like this better


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## meltyface (Oct 12, 2011)

Smokin Vegas said:


> You planning on hosting a block party?  LOL!!!!




Not that big of a party but decent sized :D


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## tasunkawitko (Oct 13, 2011)

this worked really well for me - it sounds a lot mroe complicated than it actually is, and really let the beef flavour come through:







4 pkgs mccormick au jus

3 cups water

1 stick butter

1 1/2 cups jack daniels

1 12-oz can dr. pepper

1 cup red wine vinegar

2 cups dark brown sugar

2 tbsp chili powder (you could probably use three or even four!)

1 tbsp garlic powder

1 tbsp onion powder

1/2 tsp white pepper

1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil

heat au jus mix and water in a saucepan until just below a simmer, melt butter into mixture and let cool down until warm. add the rest of the ingredients and blend well. can be used as a marinade, injection marinade, basting sauce or finishing sauce.

the list and procedure make it it look a little complicated, but such is not the case and it really was easier than it appears.

i used it as an injection marinade, with this rub:


1/2 cup chili powder
1/2 cup kosher salt
1/4 cup garlic powder
1/4 cup onion powder
1/4 cup black pepper
1/4 cup turbinado sugar
4 tbsp dry mustard
2 ground bay leaves







looks pretty good!

here it is on the grate with a chuckie, which was given similar treatment:







as the brisket was on the smoker, i brushed it periodically with the same marinade, after boiling and reducing it down a little.

it also worked very well, combined with some plain-ole kraft barbecue sauce, as a finishing sauce for the slices and the burnt ends







we served this for my son's 18th birthday party, and it was quite a hit.


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## meltyface (Oct 13, 2011)

Wow Tasunka, that looks amazing.  I really do want to try a rub/marinade like that because I love spice, but my wife and kids can't stand hot stuff...


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## tasunkawitko (Oct 13, 2011)

hey, melty - my wife is exactly the same way when it comes to spicy foods. on a scale of 1-to-10, i lke things around a 5 or 6, but she doesn't even like 1. part of this is becuase i think she is allergic to casipicum (sp), which is what makes peppers spicy.

anyway, one thing i have found is that you can usually cut the "spicy" ingredients in half, or even leave them out alotogether, and there will be no ill effects. sometimes it even has a good effect, bringing out some other, more subtle flavours that would normally be squelched. another thing you can do is instead of using cayenne, substitute with a little chili powder (either the same amout or cut in half) this will change the intended flavour a little bit, but not in a bad way - it will simply be different.

finally, keep in mind that, especially with rubs, long, slow smoking and cooking will tone the spice down quite a bit. a rub, marinade or sauce that seems really spicy will, in my experience, get mellower and mellower the longer it cooks, especially over slow heat. so even if somethng tastes very spicy at first, chances are it won't be nearly as spicy when the time comes to serve it.

with that in mind, you might be able to take some of the basics offered here by all of these these pitmasters and tweak it out into something that works very well for you and the familia ~ i can speak from experience when i say that when the family likes it, it is twice as rewarding!


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## meltyface (Oct 13, 2011)

Injected with beef broth and a little cranberry Juice last night







6 hours into the cook (trying something new) added a little rub to give it a little extra flavor







still waiting for the plateau to finish :(......


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## smokin vegas (Oct 13, 2011)

I didn't know that!  I was going to sear a prime rib roast before putting it in the smoker glad you mentioned that. Get the caremlized outside flavor and smoke too.  Guess I could carmelized/sear after smoking.  Thanks


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## smokin vegas (Oct 13, 2011)

That looks and sounds so good!!!!  Thanks for sharing the recipe I am going to try that very soon!  Ivie


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## tasunkawitko (Oct 13, 2011)

looks REALLY good, melty!


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## chef jimmyj (Oct 14, 2011)

Lots of talk about Searing here...There was an episode of Good Eats about ten years ago where Alton Brown took two hunks of Beef the same weight...Meat #1 Seared and Roasted...Meat #2 Roasted.  Both cooked to the same IT...The Seared meat Lost more Weight in the end...   The Sear to Seal in the Juices  Myth was disproven many years ago...However...A Low and Slow Smoke or Roast with a High Heat blast in an oven, at the End, did not cause a significant weight loss and works great..I have been Roasting Beef Rib Roasts at 250*F to IT of 115*. Pull the roast and rest 20 minute while the Oven comes up to 500*F then the the roast goes back in until the IT hits 125*F about 30 minutes more. Then rest 30 minutes before carving...Deep Brown color and perfect MedRare ...JJ


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## mballi3011 (Oct 14, 2011)

Smoke it naked and then see if you like it.


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## smokin vegas (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks for clearing that up that is what I will do !!!!  Ivie


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## SmokinAl (Oct 14, 2011)

It looks great so far Melty!

Looking forward to the finish!

How did it turn out!


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## meltyface (Oct 14, 2011)

I like the flavor from keeping it really simple and using a really mild rub right before the cook, but I'm doing something wrong.  This is the 3rd brisket in a row that has turned out dry.  The brisket soaked up all the beef broth over night and didn't drip any juice.  I cooked it at a steady 220 and actually pulled it off the smoker at 180 this time, but for some reason it turned out dry.  It looked really juicy when I started to cut into it because when I stuck it with my instant read thermometer to confirm my digital thermometers reading it oozed juices from the hole, but when I took a bite the meat was dry, the marbling wasn't however....frustrating!!

End result:


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## meltyface (Oct 14, 2011)

And I even let it rest for 30 mins before cutting


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## tasunkawitko (Oct 14, 2011)

melty - i am not an expert on brisket, but i think that your cooking temps might be quite a bit to low. you might be drying it out faster than you're cooking it (think jerky).

suggestion - try to find a good balance between cooking time and desired internal temps + time for collagen/fat/connective breakdown. one variable that you control is temperature.

try your next briskt at around 250 degrees, maybe even 260, and see what happens.....


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