# Are These Drums Safe For A UDS?



## michchef (Sep 21, 2009)

I found 2 drums on Craigslist that a guy about 10 miles from me was selling. They're the kind with clamp on lids, but the clamps aren't the hand operated kind, they tighten with bolts. If you think they're safe to use, I may cut the clamps off and have spring loaded hand claps welded on.

The outside of the drums say they contained "water reducible chassis paint" and that there were petroleom distillate solvents, alcohols and ether in it.
One of the drums had had a fire in it previously and I couldn't see any signs of a liner in either. They both still smell like paint thinner. I'm thinking of hauling them up to a local hand car wash bay and using a long handled brush washing and scrubbing them up real good.

Do you think they'll be safe to use or should I just clean them up and store my bags of biird seed in them?


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## coffee_junkie (Sep 21, 2009)

I have asked the forum many times about barrels that contain various stuff. The general response was not to use them unless they where food grade. If you do use these at least burn a couple of hot fires in them. Just my two cents!


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## rickw (Sep 21, 2009)

I wouldn't use them, just my opinion.


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## hog warden (Sep 21, 2009)

I'll dissent slightly. If it's a water based product, and those are not lined, you can probably use them. A good hot burn (meaning *red hot*) following a pressure wash should take care of most of the nasties.  That stuff is probably less of a problem than a plastic liner would be. The plastic liner is pretty much a no go option.

As to the bolt-on lid, you don't use the clamps anyway. Just the lid. Unbolt the ring clamp and toss it. If anything, the bolt might be an indication it's a heavy gauge steel drum, which given a choice, it not a bad way to go.


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## bigsteve (Sep 21, 2009)

They sound like bad news to me.  And I've never really understood what a burn out is supposed to accomplish.  That's not sarcasm.  I really don't understand how fire is supposed to magically negate harmful chemicals.  Not being a chemist I don't want to find out the hard way.


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## meat hunter (Sep 21, 2009)

I would not use them either, there are many clean food grade drums around, you just have to look. If you have any big canning facilities or businesses that make cooking oil ect, you can find them. Just think what you have in your area business wise that is food related. Chances are, they have a drum. If you lived closer to me, the business down the road has once used new drums, that contained coconut oil, 10 bucks for an almost brand new drum. For future reference, drums come in 2 styles, single and double chimed. Or rings. Meaning, on the top and bottom lips, industrial chemicals, petroleum based and so on have 2 rings opposed to the single rimed ones that are most common. So, if you come across a drum that has a extra rim around the top and bottm rings, maybe pass that one up as it probably had some nasty chems in it.


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## beer-b-q (Sep 21, 2009)

I would first like to say, Welcome to the forum, be sure to stop in the Roll Call thread and properly introduce yourself to everyone.

If you would tell us where you are located someone here may be able to advise you of a source for a safe drum that is food grade.

For instance, here in Kansas City there are many sources in which a person can acquire them.


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## billbo (Sep 21, 2009)

I am a believer in not using those types of drums. For the safety of my family I bought a new one. More money, but I wasn't going to risk it.


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## stubborn (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd burn it out and use it.  The steel isn't permeable, so nothing "soaks into" the steel.  All a burnout does is what  it says--burns out any residue left in the drum. It'll never be as hot when you're smoking as it is when you burn it out.  If it is, you've other issues--such as scorched Q.  

There've been untold amounts of Q made in old fuel drums, propane tanks, galvanized trash cans, pretty much anything round that will hold heat.  I even came across a site showing a cardboard (?!?) in use...

Oh yeah--and getting rid of the liners in the food-grade drums is more work than the Q is worth...And I think pretty dang highly of good Q!!


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## jethro (Sep 22, 2009)

Basically If you have to ask, you already know the answer...NO. Just an FYI if you were to go to a car was and attempt run that stuff into a public sewer system you could be facing a HUGE fine and jail time as well. Signs at our local wash bays state a MINIMUM of $5000 and 1 year in jail. You could also face State and Federal charges as well. Leave those drums right where they are at. 
I see that from your username that you are most likely from Michigan, I lived in Michigan all my life until moving to AZ. in 2002. I really don't think you want to take on the DEQ for dumping toxins those boys take that stuff seriously.


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## michchef (Sep 23, 2009)

I appreciate your input on this, but now that I think of it, any environmental issues with these have most likely been created before I bought them. The guy I bought them from had had a fire in one of them and both had been hosed and rinsed out at his place. I don't see any residue in them, but I do smell solvent fumes. I'll build fires in both, hot enough to burn the paint off the outsides, then take them up to the car wash to clean out.
I'm only using one of them to build a UDS, the other one I want to firebrick line and use as the firebox for a 275 gallon oil drum that I've been promised.


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## bigsteve (Sep 23, 2009)

Friend, you're making a mistake.


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## michchef (Sep 23, 2009)

Why do you say that Steve? I've been told that the steel isn't porous, so if burned and scrubbed what would be left to hurt?

Convince me!


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## danbury (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm jumping on the "do not use" band wagon here.  It's pretty simple... if I even thought there was something toxic/harmful in a barrel, I would not use it.  It's not worth even the slightest chance.


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## bigsteve (Sep 23, 2009)

You don't know anything about the subject, and asked here. You got overwhelming responses saying "Yikes! bad idea." But you chose to hear the one response that fit your needs.

It's not like you're picking and choosing over advice that says to foil your meat or not. We're talking about toxic chemicals. Personally, in this regard, I feel you would be foolish to accept the advice of total strangers on the net suggesting you move forward with your plans. 

It would of course be different if someone supplied you with links to published information on the subject.

Sorry to be blunt, but that's the way I'm wired.


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## mballi3011 (Sep 23, 2009)

Run away and don't stop


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## littlechief (Sep 23, 2009)

I wouldn't use anything that still had fumes after being burnt out. I would like to know why it seams to be acceptable to use old propane tanks but not old oil barrels? The chemical they use to make propane smell is toxic.


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## rickw (Sep 23, 2009)

When I opt to make another uds I will make it a point to buy a brand new, never used, drum. It is my experiance, building 2 drums, it is a pain in the a$$ to do a total burn out then sanding down to bare metal. 

 For the time and energy it takes it's worth it imo.


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## bigsteve (Sep 24, 2009)

How do you find a new drum to buy?  What would a drum manf be listed in the phone book as?  Fabricators?


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## rickw (Sep 24, 2009)

I just did a search on the net and found two manufactures in the Chicago area. They ran around $80 a piece.


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## danbury (Sep 24, 2009)

My son works for a company that I can get brand new ones from at a reasonable price.  He gets a discount there.


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## billbo (Sep 24, 2009)

I got a new drum locally for $70.00. Worth every penny!


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## bigsteve (Sep 24, 2009)

How did you find it?


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## cajunsmoker (Sep 24, 2009)

Here's a link for ya.

http://www.yankeecontainers.com/PHP/...ber=MSD5-23-01


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## billbo (Sep 24, 2009)

I did a Yahoo/Google search in my area and it came up.


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## rickw (Sep 24, 2009)

Nice! I wish I were closer


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## michchef (Sep 25, 2009)

Well, I did a 3 hour burn on one of them yesterday. Gotta go winterize our lake place so I won't get back to it until Monday. I'll be bringing a Weber lid back with me.


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## ddave (Sep 25, 2009)

Well, essentially it's exactly like that because all of the responses -- for and against -- are based on opinion.  There is definitely a correct answer but unfortunately, I don't know what that is and it probably depends on the chemical that was stored in it.  Wouldn't it be nice if Myth Busters did an episode on "Smoking Myths' and settled it once and for all? 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





I think the majority err on the side of caution which I would say is a good thing.  At least that can't hurt you.  But it would be nice to know for sure.

One thing I can't understand is why people say "burn it out" then "take it to a car wash"?  I'm not sure what the car wash is going to remove that the fire did not.  Plus, if the car wash owner catches you, he's going to be pissed and likely call the cops.

If you were bound and determined to use it, I would build a big ^%$^% fire in it, then wire brush it down to bare metal, then build another big &^*&* fire in it then wire brush it again.  Then stick your head in it and if you can still smell solvent or anything else suspicious, I'd think twice about using it.  If it did not have a strange smell, I would guess -- and that's just a guess -- that it would be okay.

Hmm . . . I'm gonna have to do a little research and see if I can find a source to email this question to.  Would be interesting to find out from some chemists or metalurgists (SP) or something.  Trouble is, I really don't know where to start yet.  But if I come up with anything, I'll report back.
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Dave


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## michchef (Sep 25, 2009)

Dave, a good washing will get rid of any residual ash from whatever was burned out and yes, my first plan of action is to brush it down to bare metal with an angle grinder with a brush in it. Then I'll wash it out again and once dry, I'm thinking of giving it a coat of high temp primer, then a coat of high temp paint the same as the outside will be. With it being burned, washed, brushed, then coated with two layers of paint, how could I get any fumes inside the drum?

As far as a car wash owner getting pi$$ed off, by the time I take them to the car wash, they'll just be burned metal drums with no ID on them anyway. I'll hose them out at home first so they'll even look clean inside too. If I had a powerwasher, I'd do it all at home.

I only posted this question in hopes that someone might know something specific. I guess my opinion is that if it's burned out, washed and wire brushed, then sealed behind heat proof paint, it should be pretty safe by then.


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## ddave (Sep 25, 2009)

What ever you do DON'T paint the inside.  Just burn it and get it down to bare metal.  If it smells okay, rub it down with Crisco or spray it with Pam and smoke a fatty or two to season it.  A little vaporized pork fat is a great rust preventer. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





Dave


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## solaryellow (Sep 25, 2009)

x2 

My first UDS was built from a drum that formerly housed 10w30. I drained out the bit of motor oil that was in it, scrubbed it out several times with degreaser, and burned it out for 6 hours with 3 pallets. By the time I was done there was no smell of anything other than burning pallets. I sprayed the inside down with Pam and did a test fire. I have now cooked on it for 4 weeks or so and built up a nice coat of "rust prevention" with no petroleum smell or taste to any of the food.


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## hog warden (Sep 26, 2009)

Yup.....DO NOT PAINT the inside. I coated mine with used peanut oil. That also gets burned in by a seasoning burn....the same one used to cure the high temp engine paint used on the outside. 

Did you get the locking ring / lid question figured out? Does the lid have a rubber gasket on the rim? If so, pull that off too.


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## michchef (Sep 28, 2009)

Well, it's all a moot point now. I brought my Weber grill lid back from our lake place and it doesn't fit. When I line it up with one side of the drum rim, there's an inch of clearance on the other side. I don't want a flat lidded one reck UDS and I only want to build one of them. So one berrel will keep getting repeated burns in it and eventually will become the firebrick lined firebox for a 275 gallon oil drum smoker I'm working on the design for and the other one will be my mouse and squirrel proof bird seed storage bin. 

So now I'm on the lookout for a new smaller drum, hopefully that has held something safer. I'll be cartin my Weber lid around with me when I go lookin.


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## beer-b-q (Sep 28, 2009)

Why not center the Weber lid on the removable barrel lid, mark its position, and then cut the center out of the barrel lid and weld the Weber lid over the hole thus making a perfect fit...


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## got14u (Sep 28, 2009)

My opinion if you burn some hot fires in them and grind it down to bare metal then burn again i can't imagine them not being ok. just my humble opinion.


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## coffee_junkie (Sep 28, 2009)

There are several easy ways to make the lid fit, you will have to do a search, but....have you checked the bottom of the drum for fit? I don't think you will ever find a drum that will fit perfect.


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## michchef (Sep 28, 2009)

Well, I went out and turned the drum over and tried the lid. Still no go, but it's closer. Maybe close enough so that I might be able to hammer the rim of the barrel in just a little and using a hammer flare the rim of the lid out a little, not doing anything major to either. It's worth a try. Originally I wanted to cut the bottom out anyway and have a removeable base too. Maybe tomorrow if it's not so windy out.


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## solaryellow (Sep 29, 2009)

Just a thought, but what if you cut several small 1/4" deep slits (with a cut off wheel) spaced evenly around the top and then use a small ratchet strap to pull the top in until the lid fits?


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## coffee_junkie (Sep 29, 2009)

I just took a pair of plyers and tweaked the bottom lip all the way around until it fit, hammering would work but try tweaking it first, I am certain it will fit if you do this, that is what I did. My lid fits pretty good. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...ad.php?t=82003


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