# Need help choosing an offset smoker (BBQ Mates BM S-2 vs BM S-3 or other)



## The URS (May 20, 2021)

Hey guys, this will be my first post in the forum. I started offset smoking a year ago with a cheap Landmann offset smoker that I have outgrown. I need something next level for my home use and progressing my skills with.

I am based in the EU and therefore the options are very slim for a great smoker, I do not want under any circumstances to pay import taxes for a purchase outside of the EU. Basically I have to chose between BM (BBQ Mates) and Nette Lette from what I've found after extensive research, and I chose BM after some thinking and reading, not that Nette Lette is bad but I like the BM designs better.

My 2 options are:

BM S-3: https://www.bm-bbq.eu/product/bm-s-3-offset-smoker-grill-2/

and

BM S-2: https://www.bm-bbq.eu/product/bm-s-2-offset-smoker/



BM S-3 advantages:

- cheaper

- has the hotplate

- optionally you can add an insulated firebox

Disadvantages:

- extra money for insulated firebox

- has thinner metal (5mm vs 6.5mm or for the US non-metric boys, 0.19 inch vs 0.25 inch)





BM S-2:

- More room to cook (negligible more)

- thicker metal (6.5mm vs 5mm)

- has default insulated box but not hotplate

- has the wide exhaust the length of the cooking grate which I've read it makes for better heat distribution

Disadvantages:

- More expensive

- Shipment will be more expensive (twice the weight as S-3)



My thoughts:

- I would go for the S-2 even though the S-3 is way cheaper but I don't want my choice to be reasonless and just based on some faulty perception

- An insulated firebox isn't something I truly want, I don't cook in low temperatures. I've also read that an uninsulated firebox gives better flavor (marginally) and that fuel consumption isn't that much reduced.

- The hotplate also isn't something that I truly want, but most likely I will use it if I have it (if it gets to a proper temperature that can sear a stake well)



My questions:

1) Is the metal thickness difference really a big problem (5mm vs 6.5mm)? I know the theory, thicker the better, harder to heat but less temperature fluctuations and warping but *really*, *is there a real life application difference*? 1.5mm difference is not much at all.

2) Is an insulated firebox that necessary? Will it make such a big difference? I've seen lots of people swear by them and lots of people not giving 1c about them.

3) For those who uses any of the above mentioned smokers, which one is better when it comes to heat management, flavor and overall satisfaction with the product?

4) Would there be another option for an Offset Smoker with the same quality build and features in the EU but cheaper price?



Thanks a lot guys!


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## JC in GB (May 20, 2021)

1) Is the metal thickness difference really a big problem (5mm vs 6.5mm)? I know the theory, thicker the better, harder to heat but less temperature fluctuations and warping but *really*, *is there a real life application difference*? 1.5mm difference is not much at all.

*Metal thickness makes a great deal of difference in the way the unit cooks and the life expectancy of the unit.  The thicker the better.  Thin steel sucks in cold weather.*

2) Is an insulated firebox that necessary? Will it make such a big difference? I've seen lots of people swear by them and lots of people not giving 1c about them.

*If you live in a cold climate, insulated firebox will help conserve fuel and also improve your cook.*

3) For those who uses any of the above mentioned smokers, which one is better when it comes to heat management, flavor and overall satisfaction with the product?

4) Would there be another option for an Offset Smoker with the same quality build and features in the EU but cheaper price? 

*You could build your own smoker that would meet your requirements.  Making a smoker out of an old propane cylinder has been done by many pit masters with great success.  Materials can usually be found for a small investment.   I am currently building my own offset smoker because I don't wish to pay a premium price for one.*


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## Hamdrew (May 20, 2021)

1.5mm is 30% thicker, 30% heavier etc. I know my slightly thicker old/used Brinkmann offset I picked up for $50 holds heat much better than the Chargriller Smokin Champ (RIP) i got over the holidays. 

Why are the fireboxes so dang big on those?? Is there THAT much insulation, I wonder?

Is your heart set on an offset, and have you considered building one if at all practical? As big as your budget is, I'd think it within the realm of possibility. If it is, or even if not, you could also get/build an "Ugly Drum Smoker" (UDS), or a water smoker like this one in the EU (i have NO idea about the brand, just Googled "water smoker .eu" for smaller cooks. You might even like the different smoke flavor-profile that comes from the grease/drippings burning.


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## Chasdev (May 20, 2021)

2 all the way.
I like the exhaust design over the other and thicker is ALWAYS better.
1.5 millimeter is (for our non-metric brethren) .060 thicker and that's nothing to sneeze at.


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## The URS (May 20, 2021)

I'm not a fan of building my own because I don't have that much knowledge on thermodynamics or airflow designs of a smoker. So most likely I'll get things wrong and I'll have to deal with it. Also I don't have metalworking skills to fix stuff if it's designed poorly so hauling 300+ kgs to a metal shop over and over and paying the guys to mod it will end up costing me more than just buying one from a reputable company.

Also, in the EU, there are fewer and fewer metal fabricators or actually any fabricators or artisans. Blame that on decades of "get a college degree" or "work smart not hard" and also importing everything from China didn't help much either. So, costs of hiring one of the few metal shops around and teaching them what an offset smoker is and giving them pdf plans from smokerplans.net would end up costing almost as much as getting a new one and paying premium for it. (nobody here where I live has any idea what an offset smoker is, not very popular, people here grill on open flame and that's it). Already spoke with 4 shops, 3 turned me down and one charge a ludicrous amount for the job, also offering no guarantees on the finished product, which is understandable because they never heard about an offset smoker as a concept, yet alone build one. So I can't fault those guys on that. They fabricate tanks and metal stairs and other types of structures.

My logic in life is, some things are worth paying a lot for. Buy cheap, get cheap. Not talking about shoes or clothes, but important stuff, stuff that you want to last a long time. This way of thinking never failed me. I bought a cheapo to figure out if I like this, first smoked brisket I ate in my life was made by me, nowhere to buy it from where I live. But I liked it even as messed up as it was (dry, chewy). But I learned, improved on my skills, learned how to manage the fire on that tin can I own, and now I can do a good brisket after many attempts on learning. So I'm at the point where I need good equipment and I'm willing to pay for it, I'm just looking for the best option I can get my hands on.


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## Hamdrew (May 20, 2021)

I understand. That said, you're on a website with a lot of resources- there is a forum here dedicated to smoker builds! At first glance I see a thread *started April 30th* from user 
S
 Smokey_MattUK
 , of course not E.U., but probably no further than many of us in America are from one another. Someone in chat last night mentioned a member in Poland.

Buying cheaper in general, yes, will get you lower quality. However, if you were dead-set on that belief, I don't think you'd have started this thread, right? I'd guess that you want to fully research this from all angles. In any case, knowing why _____ should be ______ about your smoker is valuable. Hence my confusion as to why those fireboxes are so large. This is the standard calculator-
http://www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.html (~1/3 cook chamber)

Lastly, I can't imagine freight+taxes make it impractical with that budget? $1,000 can get you a pretty sweet set-up. If you're in an affluent area or city,  it may be worth venturing out? I'd also recommend going to the best BBQ restaurants you have the means to get to and ask for their help, and continue to seek advice here/everywhere. BBQ after all is centered about sharing (cooking large cuts for multiple people)


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## The URS (May 20, 2021)

Thanks for your input. Sadly, in Romania, where I'm from, BBQ as you know it is not popular at all. BBQ for us means burgers and charcoal grilled meats. Not one single restaurant that cooks with smoke here. We cold smoke a lot but not hot smoke. I know it's unimaginable for you guys but this is it. And don't get me started on meat cut quality or availabilty. Just a handful of butchers offer brisket cuts, usually that cut goes into the ground meat category here.  We don't have prime cuts, choice etc. We just have meat :). Historically here beef was bred for milk and milk products, our proteins came from pig, sheep, birds, venison. We had very low consumption of beef meat up until 30 years ago, and it still is the lowest consumed animal of all in Romania. Only in the past 20 years we started to get Angus, Charolais, etc. And very recently, like in the past 5-6 years we started consuming Wagyu and Kobe, which are triple priced vs the US. So locally, I can't get any info about smoking meats. Will try to look into building an offset on my own, do the math and if it pans out, yeah, I can switch my focus to that, if, and it's a big if, I find someone who can fabricate it for me.

Also shipping an offset from the US isn't practical. A decent offset with 1/4 inch steel would weigh at least 700 pounds for the size I want, which isn't that big, it's rather on the small side. That translates into around 2000$ shipping costs (looked into it), and around 20% import fees costs, making it impractical.


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## Hamdrew (May 20, 2021)

I wondered if you were in the East, the way you described it.. Meat grades don't mean a thing to me (a lot of the best pork I splurge on at the local farmer's market isn't graded, but hopefully that means you can find great deals if you know what you're looking for, right?

Old propane tank builds are probably the most common I've seen, if common at all over there? Besides that, reading up on what you need, and asking metal fabricators to build plain cylinders (rather than giving them the whole idea) may be your best bet. Here's a cool build by the member 

 smokin peachey






						500 gallon tank build
					

Here are some pictures from my resent build using a 500 gallon propane tank for the CC. I built this outside because I do not have a big shop. I bought a acetylene torch off Craigslist and bought a cheap welder at harbor freight. I also found a cheap trailer on Craigslist. I tried to use what I...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com


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## jcam222 (May 20, 2021)

I’d just pull the trigger on the unit with the heavier metal and insulated box. My motto is buy once , cry once :)


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## JC in GB (May 21, 2021)

The URS said:


> I'm not a fan of building my own because I don't have that much knowledge on thermodynamics or airflow designs of a smoker. So most likely I'll get things wrong and I'll have to deal with it. Also I don't have metalworking skills to fix stuff if it's designed poorly so hauling 300+ kgs to a metal shop over and over and paying the guys to mod it will end up costing me more than just buying one from a reputable company.
> 
> Also, in the EU, there are fewer and fewer metal fabricators or actually any fabricators or artisans. Blame that on decades of "get a college degree" or "work smart not hard" and also importing everything from China didn't help much either. So, costs of hiring one of the few metal shops around and teaching them what an offset smoker is and giving them pdf plans from smokerplans.net would end up costing almost as much as getting a new one and paying premium for it. (nobody here where I live has any idea what an offset smoker is, not very popular, people here grill on open flame and that's it). Already spoke with 4 shops, 3 turned me down and one charge a ludicrous amount for the job, also offering no guarantees on the finished product, which is understandable because they never heard about an offset smoker as a concept, yet alone build one. So I can't fault those guys on that. They fabricate tanks and metal stairs and other types of structures.
> 
> My logic in life is, some things are worth paying a lot for. Buy cheap, get cheap. Not talking about shoes or clothes, but important stuff, stuff that you want to last a long time. This way of thinking never failed me. I bought a cheapo to figure out if I like this, first smoked brisket I ate in my life was made by me, nowhere to buy it from where I live. But I liked it even as messed up as it was (dry, chewy). But I learned, improved on my skills, learned how to manage the fire on that tin can I own, and now I can do a good brisket after many attempts on learning. So I'm at the point where I need good equipment and I'm willing to pay for it, I'm just looking for the best option I can get my hands on.



*I hope you don't give up on trying to build your own.  It is not as hard as it may seem.  There are design calculators that can help you design your pit without you requiring any knowledge beyond simple mathematics and basic metal fabrication.  I am sure one of the posters on this forum can help design the rig for you.  I can help if you wish as long as the design is not too complex.*

*I see that you tried talking to machine shops to get this done.  I don't know much about Romania, would love for you to tell me more, but here in the states, it is fairly easy to find a car enthusiast that has some cutting and welding tools.  That is what I am doing for my build.  I don't have the room or tools at my home so I am renting out a garage that has the space and the tools I need to get the job done.  I have done no welding or metal cutting in the past so there is quite the learning curve.  I am **fortunate** that the garage owner is quite skilled and **willing** to teach me how to use these tools.*
*
Also, basic welders that will weld up to 1/4" steel are not prohibitively priced.  

Scrap parts are usually found after some directed searching.

Lastly, if you build your own, you can always modify or repair it as you know exactly how it went together.

I wish you success in any event.  Bringing Western BBQ to Romania is a great endeavor.  Get your pork ribs BBQ on par and I am sure that you will hit a Oina goal!  Also, perhaps you can knock the popularity of tripe soup down a few notches with a succulent Texas brisket?
*
*I just got done watching the Romanian television show from the 80's "Communist Detective" for the second time.  That show was a masterpiece of cold war propaganda.  It is awesome.  I laughed so hard at some of those portrayals of western civilization.*

JC


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## The URS (May 21, 2021)

JC in GB said:


> *I hope you don't give up on trying to build your own.  It is not as hard as it may seem.  There are design calculators that can help you design your pit without you requiring any knowledge beyond simple mathematics and basic metal fabrication.  I am sure one of the posters on this forum can help design the rig for you.  I can help if you wish as long as the design is not too complex.
> 
> I see that you tried talking to machine shops to get this done.  I don't know much about Romania, would love for you to tell me more, but here in the states, it is fairly easy to find a car enthusiast that has some cutting and welding tools.  That is what I am doing for my build.  I don't have the room or tools at my home so I am renting out a garage that has the space and the tools I need to get the job done.  I have done no welding or metal cutting in the past so there is quite the learning curve.  I am **fortunate** that the garage owner is quite skilled and **willing** to teach me how to use these tools.*
> 
> ...



Had a laugh! :) Never heard of that show but will check it out. Also, oina is a very ancient game that nobody's been playing for the past 100 years. We love our football (you guys call it soccer), tennis, boxing, handball and other mainstream sports. As for the communist era, we weren't so oblivious like North Korea is now (presumably). We had access to "western" magazines, movies and pre digital media. 

As for what you recommended, I'm decent with a stick welder, don't make the best visually nice welds but I get things joined :). Started researching on what it's needed to make it dyi fashion.


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## JC in GB (May 21, 2021)

The URS said:


> Had a laugh! :) Never heard of that show but will check it out. Also, oina is a very ancient game that nobody's been playing for the past 100 years. We love our football (you guys call it soccer), tennis, boxing, handball and other mainstream sports. As for the communist era, we weren't so oblivious like North Korea is now (presumably). We had access to "western" magazines, movies and pre digital media.
> 
> As for what you recommended, I'm decent with a stick welder, don't make the best visually nice welds but I get things joined :). Started researching on what it's needed to make it dyi fashion.



*In any event, I wish you success.  A stick welder will do a fine job for you.*
*
Communist Detective was mainly about western clothing and products such as Pepsi and hamburgers infiltrating Romanian society and ruining its youth.  America has similar propaganda shows.

I found some of the points they made were outrageous and hysterical while other points they made were spot on.  If you can find it, the show may be worth a watch.  It also has a few scenarios of gratuitous sex which always helps make the story more relevant.    
*
*JC *


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## JWFokker (May 24, 2021)

Insulated fireboxes are overrated and a complexity that the designer needs to get right. Insulating the firebox can cause the smoker to run hot and require the pitmaster to run a smaller fire to compensate. The advantage is improved fuel efficiency. Worth it? Not to me.


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