# Masterbuilt electric project



## Ringer (Oct 14, 2021)

I got one of these a few years ago and the controller has rotted away. It worked fine other than that.

Is it worth replacing the controller with the Bluetooth model or is there something better.

What would you guys do to upgrade it?


----------



## normanaj (Oct 14, 2021)

Add a PID. It'll make your MB better than when it was new. 

 tallbm
 can help you with that.


----------



## Ringer (Oct 14, 2021)

normanaj said:


> Add a PID. It'll make your MB better than when it was new.
> 
> tallbm
> can help you with that.


I'll definitely need help. I have no idea what that is...lol


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 14, 2021)

I haven't done it yet, but was going to tell you the same thing.  I'm still wondering if building a pid or buying is cheaper/ better idea.


----------



## fxsales1959 (Oct 14, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I got one of these a few years ago and the controller has rotted away. It worked fine other than that.
> 
> Is it worth replacing the controller with the Bluetooth model or is there something better.
> 
> What would you guys do to upgrade it?


Following


----------



## Ringer (Oct 14, 2021)

Is this a good plug and play~ish solution






						WIFI Electric Smoker Controller, 1800 Watts [AW-1520H] - $234.99 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. WIFI Electric Smoker Controller, 1800 Watts [AW-1520H] - This plug-and-play PID controller regulates the temperature of the electric smokers, such as Smokin-it®, Smokin Tex and Masterbuilt Smoker. This controller uses a PID algorithm to automatically adjust the power...



					www.auberins.com
				




Also where can I find info on the other mods like smoke generator etc.


----------



## jkc64 (Oct 14, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Is this a good plug and play~ish solution
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the one I use on my MES30


----------



## Ringer (Oct 14, 2021)

jkc64 said:


> That's the one I use on my MES30


How difficult was the wiring?


----------



## jkc64 (Oct 14, 2021)

Between reviewing the instruction here and the auber web site it took me longer to get a piece of wire and a couple of spade connectors than it did to bypass the relay.


----------



## Winterrider (Oct 14, 2021)

Many of us run this unit





						Multi Purpose Controller [WS-1510ELPM] - $159.95 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. Multi Purpose Controller [WS-1510ELPM] - The WS-1510ELPM is a versatile temperature controller to have in your home. It can be used for various applications such as Sous Vide cooking, controlling an electric smoker, making yogurt, dough proofing, controlling the...



					www.auberins.com


----------



## tallbm (Oct 14, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I'll definitely need help. I have no idea what that is...lol


A PID Controller (Proportonal, Integral, Derivative = PID) will measure the temperature inside your smoker with a temp probe ( you clip it to the bottom smoker rack) and based on the set temperature you punch into the controller, it will cut on/off electricity to the smoker to hit and hold on that set temp.  Usually holds within 1-3 degrees with no wild temp swings.

To use one you have to do a simple rewire to your MES. Basically you cut the ends off 4 wires. Then you wire nut he proper ends together to make 2 whole wires and you're done!
Now your rewired MES will take electricity from the plug and send it to the heating element bypassing all the old MES electronics.
This is why the PID controller is needed.

You plug the PID into the wall outlet and clip the temp probe to the bottom rack inside the smoker.
Then you plug the MES plug into the PID.
Turn on the PID and enter a set temp and it will take power from your wall outlet and feed it to the MES plug/heating element and then hit/hold your set temp.  No magic needed :)

You turn your golf cart of a smoker into a Ferarri!  You can now smoke sausage, bacon, jerky, etc. without fear of melting fat or temp swings that ruin things for you.   You now can hit your max MES temp of 275F where the original controller rarely ever did and didn't hold it due to temp swings.
Your smoker is now awesome! :D

Read all about rewiring for a PID here:





						MES Rewire Simple Guide - No Back Removal Needed!!!
					

Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.  Disclaimer:  When messing with electrical equipment...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				






mr_whipple said:


> I haven't done it yet, but was going to tell you the same thing.  I'm still wondering if building a pid or buying is cheaper/ better idea.


If you have never bought the parts, tools, and additional items (insulation shrink wrap, extra wire, etc. etc.) it is WAY less expensive to just buy one.
Also if you build one you really need a drill press, vice, an easy way to cut squares/rectangles into sheet metal, etc. etc.

I've both built and bought and yeah the last one I built I spent $40 less then buying an Auber BUT I still didn't come out in the black from all the tools, drill bits, dremel cutting wheels, and extra crap needed to do the job... and I only have hand tools which makes it way more difficult than having a drill press and vise, etc. etc.

So I recommend buy unless you really enjoy a project and don't mind spending double and don't mind potentially ruining pieces that you have to buy again (project box/enclosures).




fxsales1959 said:


> Following


You can read all about rewiring an MES for using with a PID controller here:





						MES Rewire Simple Guide - No Back Removal Needed!!!
					

Lately I've seen a number of posts about guys wanting to rewire their MES.  I had wanted to post a quick and simple guide for those out there that are curious or those that simply need to rewire but need a little assistance.  Well here goes.  Disclaimer:  When messing with electrical equipment...




					www.smokingmeatforums.com
				





Ask all the questions you have, the guys here are awesome!  Plus all of us PID guys would never go back and usually wonder why we waited so long to bite the bullet and move to a PID :)
I hope this info helps all of you :)


----------



## Ringer (Oct 14, 2021)

tallbm
 WOW!!

Thanks so much for all of the info. A pid is definitely what I'm looking for and I really like the wifi auber model. I will read up on the tutorials and thank for all of the links. This is exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 15, 2021)

tallbm said:


> If you have never bought the parts, tools, and additional items (insulation shrink wrap, extra wire, etc. etc.) it is WAY less expensive to just buy one.
> Also if you build one you really need a drill press, vice, an easy way to cut squares/rectangles into sheet metal, etc. etc.
> 
> I've both built and bought and yeah the last one I built I spent $40 less then buying an Auber BUT I still didn't come out in the black from all the tools, drill bits, dremel cutting wheels, and extra crap needed to do the job... and I only have hand tools which makes it way more difficult than having a drill press and vise, etc. etc.
> ...



I have everything needed to make one except the parts. Don't think you want to read my resume, but trust me... what I do for work makes me not want to do it when I get home. Think I'll just buy one.  I have some questions about the aubers so maybe I'll start another thread or just PM you.


----------



## Ringer (Oct 15, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> I have everything needed to make one except the parts. Don't think you want to read my resume, but trust me... what I do for work makes me not want to do it when I get home. Think I'll just buy one.  I have some questions about the aubers so maybe I'll start another thread or just PM you.


Feel free to ask here if you want, otherwise I'll watch for your thread.


----------



## cmayna (Oct 15, 2021)

Auber PID is the way to go.  Been running my MES40 with one for 5+ years.    Looks like the OP has a 40 as well.  Might consider flipping the element over to get it more centered in the box.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 15, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> I have everything needed to make one except the parts. Don't think you want to read my resume, but trust me... what I do for work makes me not want to do it when I get home. Think I'll just buy one.  I have some questions about the aubers so maybe I'll start another thread or just PM you.


I totally understand hahaha.  I think buying one will be the thing that makes you happiest.  Honestly now that I've done a few the most annoying part ALWAYS fighting with the project box/enclosure.  
It all starts with just freaking finding one that is the right size and will do the job properly.
Then it's cutting into the thing and making it look good and fit well. SOOOO annoying!

Ask any questions you like about the Auber's. Their manual was written by a drunk 2nd grader so it can be hard to understand at times hahaha. In a thread or in a PM, it's up to you.  I do know guys who are curious or needing some help love to see the posts available publicly so they can research as much as possible :)


----------



## hooked on smoke (Oct 15, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I'll definitely need help. I have no idea what that is...lol


I followed tallbm's instructions. I tell you what, I am seriously challenged when it comes to stuff like this but the way he layed it out even I had no problems. Thanks tallbm! 
I don't recall what model Auber I got but man my Mes40 is great now. Seems to jack up my electric bill though, is that normal?


----------



## dr k (Oct 15, 2021)

If you divide your total electric bill by your kwhs I'm at $.13/kwh. The Mes 40 is 1,200 watts so 1.2 kwh=$.15×24hrs=$3.75 without counting cycling off. So $2+ to run 24 hrs.


----------



## bill1 (Oct 15, 2021)

And Kurt's numbers are maxes.  The 1200 W filament cycles on and off.  Average power is probably 20% of that so about 3 cents/hr.  
If you're seeing noticeable increases in your power bill, it's not due to a MES smoker, unless it has some real serious wiring problems.  
These are great devices to have.  There are cheaper versions, but the original is NRTL-listed:


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 16, 2021)

Ok... so Ive been looking at the different controllers on Auber's website.  I've narrowed it down to two. 

First the one mentioned above the $139 WS-1510ELPM Here and then the $199 WST-1510H Here. I noticed the $79 SMD-200A but after a brief read of the details it's not complete without the SSR so that's right out. Looks easy enough but I'm not going to build one. According to MES the heating element on my unit is 1200W so either will do the trick.

I see little difference in the operation of the two, just different types and number of of probes... PT100 vs PT1000 and the displays are different. Also, I noticed the ELPM is fused while the 1510H is not. Don't know why that is but hopefully my circuit breaker will handle that if the need arises.  That and the 1510H has a plug for a smoke generator.

I'm leaning toward the 1510H simply for the probe options. My only question really is the reliability of these controllers and customer service. I see a 1 year warranty. Thoughts or good/bad stories relating to those issues?


----------



## cmayna (Oct 16, 2021)

Mine is a WS-1510ELPM.  No problems at all.     Extremely reliable.  Here’s a pic of my setup


----------



## 912smoker (Oct 16, 2021)

Sweet set up  !


----------



## Ringer (Oct 16, 2021)

cmayna said:


> Mine is a WS-1510ELPM.  No problems at all.     Extremely reliable.  Here’s a pic of my setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what is in the mailbox? Is it vented?


----------



## jkc64 (Oct 16, 2021)

I would recommend the 1510H-W. It is the most expensive one but I have an older one that you have to sit and click the buttons to program. I find this to be a PIA, had to pull out ther instruction sheet everytime I wanted to change something. Maybe there was an easier way but I didn't find it. The latest one I bought is a 1500H-W which I see is not available any more, looks just like the 1510H-W. I find it much easier to program and make changes from the app on my phone. I can also sit my lazy butt in the house and check the temps and progress on my phone. I never had a problem with the first one I bought just wanted the newer one with wi-fi.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 17, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Ok... so Ive been looking at the different controllers on Auber's website.  I've narrowed it down to two.
> 
> First the one mentioned above the $139 WS-1510ELPM Here and then the $199 WST-1510H Here. I noticed the $79 SMD-200A but after a brief read of the details it's not complete without the SSR so that's right out. Looks easy enough but I'm not going to build one. According to MES the heating element on my unit is 1200W so either will do the trick.
> 
> ...


So far I've never seen one fail.  Customer service at Auber has been responsive over the phone.  I had trouble with one of their thermocouples and they walked me through troubleshooting.  Turns out the wires in the "plug" part were touching each other causing a bad reading.  I just had to pus them apart and put some electric tape around them so they could never touch again and problem solved :)


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 18, 2021)

jkc64 said:


> I would recommend the 1510H-W. It is the most expensive one but I have an older one that you have to sit and click the buttons to program. I find this to be a PIA, had to pull out ther instruction sheet everytime I wanted to change something. Maybe there was an easier way but I didn't find it. The latest one I bought is a 1500H-W which I see is not available any more, looks just like the 1510H-W. I find it much easier to program and make changes from the app on my phone. I can also sit my lazy butt in the house and check the temps and progress on my phone. I never had a problem with the first one I bought just wanted the newer one with wi-fi.


I gave the wifi version no thought at all as I didn't want it, but you do make a good point. I've never played with one of these but if there's a frustration level with navigating the settings that might push me to reconsider the wifi. I was going to get around to ordering one later today... think I'll read the instructions first to help me decide.


----------



## cmayna (Oct 18, 2021)

Ringer said:


> So what is in the mailbox? Is it vented?



The pellet cage is in the mailbox.  There are tons of threads on "Mailbox Mod".  Check them out.

Back to the Auber setup,  I have a variety of wireless thermometers to let me  know what the current temp is while sitting in my kitchen, etc.    The WIFI model might be a way for future buyers to consider.  Very happy with my ELPM series.  Very easy to program.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 18, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> I gave the wifi version no thought at all as I didn't want it, but you do make a good point. I've never played with one of these but if there's a frustration level with navigating the settings that might push me to reconsider the wifi. I was going to get around to ordering one later today... think I'll read the instructions first to help me decide.



The manual seems to have been written by a drunk 2nd grader hahaha.  HOWEVER, once you sort out the button pressing you just write it down and then rinse and repeat.  Actually understanding the instruction manual is much more difficult than programming the PID.

We can help you out but yeah if you want more simplicity then the wifi version with the app seems to do that for you... I don't have first hand experience with the wifi version or the app so ping those guys a bit more if you have questions about it :)


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 18, 2021)

Looks simple enough. Gonna pull the trigger on the 1510H. The wifi isn't interesting me at all.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 18, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Looks simple enough. Gonna pull the trigger on the 1510H. The wifi isn't interesting me at all.


Glad you found you option! 
Wifi to me is just kind of handy.  No matter what you can't leave the smoker completely unattended. One strong wind causing a pellet flame up or one grease flame up inside the smoker and you burn down the house... or on the West coast you burn down the state if you are not nearby to handle it.

I think you'll enjoy the PID for sure :)


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 18, 2021)

Yea... not looking to start any wildfires! Hopefully this whole thing goes off as planned. Seems easy enough. Now I have to see if the ammo cans I have are big enough to be my mailbox... I know one is but its quite large so I don't think I want to use that. If not mail box it is.  

Alright, Ringer... I'm done hijacking your thread


----------



## Ringer (Oct 18, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Yea... not looking to start any wildfires! Hopefully this whole thing goes off as planned. Seems easy enough. Now I have to see if the ammo cans I have are big enough to be my mailbox... I know one is but its quite large so I don't think I want to use that. If not mail box it is.
> 
> Alright, Ringer... I'm done hijacking your thread


It's all valuable info, I'm doing the same thing.

Keep it coming


----------



## hooked on smoke (Oct 20, 2021)

dr k said:


> If you divide your total electric bill by your kwhs I'm at $.13/kwh. The Mes 40 is 1,200 watts so 1.2 kwh=$.15×24hrs=$3.75 without counting cycling off. So $2+ to run 24 hrs.


Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the info. I need to find out what is raising my bill 20.00 a month. It's not consistent so that's why I thought I narrowed it down to my smoker. It seemed the spikes occurred the months after running it.
Hmm. Thanks again.


----------



## hooked on smoke (Oct 20, 2021)

bill1 said:


> And Kurt's numbers are maxes.  The 1200 W filament cycles on and off.  Average power is probably 20% of that so about 3 cents/hr.
> If you're seeing noticeable increases in your power bill, it's not due to a MES smoker, unless it has some real serious wiring problems.
> These are great devices to have.  There are cheaper versions, but the original is NRTL-listed:


Thanks, sorry I'm late getting back to you. I may have to look into this.


----------



## dr k (Oct 20, 2021)

hooked on smoke said:


> Thanks, sorry I'm late getting back to you. I may have to look into this.


People have mentioned checking out a kill a watt meter at the public library.


----------



## Ringer (Oct 22, 2021)

Looks like the wifi model is on sale. I'll be going that route.

Anyone have a discount code?


----------



## tallbm (Oct 22, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Looks like the wifi model is on sale. I'll be going that route.
> 
> Anyone have a discount code?


Nice!  Sales are rare from Auber.  I've never seen a discount code so I wouldn't hold out too long for one.
It's exciting that you will be part of the PID club soon :D


----------



## Ringer (Oct 22, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Nice!  Sales are rare from Auber.  I've never seen a discount code so I wouldn't hold out too long for one.
> It's exciting that you will be part of the PID club soon :D


I pulled the trigger.

It's probably ly overkill since I have a 30 and not a 40.

Is the bypass wiring the same on the 30?


----------



## tallbm (Oct 22, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I pulled the trigger.
> 
> It's probably ly overkill since I have a 30 and not a 40.
> 
> Is the bypass wiring the same on the 30?


Yep the wiring is the same for a 30 as a 40.  The good thing is your PID will support a MES40 should you decide to upgrade.  

In my opinion, the best MES40 you can get is one someone is selling for like $40,  giving away, or claims isn't working (controller died, etc.) and you just take to a car wash and wash out.  Then you rewire and put a PID on it.  That MES will be bullet proof once you rewire and change the connectors for good ones :)

Better than anything Masterbuilt makes brand new :)


----------



## dr k (Oct 22, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Yep the wiring is the same for a 30 as a 40.  The good thing is your PID will support a MES40 should you decide to upgrade.
> 
> In my opinion, the best MES40 you can get is one someone is selling for like $40,  giving away, or claims isn't working (controller died, etc.) and you just take to a car wash and wash out.  Then you rewire and put a PID on it.  That MES will be bullet proof once you rewire and change the connectors for good ones :)
> 
> Better than anything Masterbuilt makes brand new :)


I saw 2 Mes 30 for $50 on FB Marketplace yesterday. One works fine and he threw in the other for parts or diagnose it to get it running. I did pick up a free 30 over a year ago and that OEM controller is fine. Had it running in 30 min after tracking down the fried lug on the roll out limit switch with a dremel cut off wheel. Bypassed it with a wire nut since I won't run them without a pit therm set to a range alarm. I like the no back removal on my 40 so no junction box built into the element access but had to make accesses in the 30 and 40 back panel to bypass the limit switches that'll just throw a wrench into a night smoke etc when it fails and opens at too low of a temp or completely fails like my free 30. I think the smoker was soaked or directly power washed the limit switch since the junction box for it behind the back wall was super rusted out and no access to dry it out. I do have a power cord I made with lugs on the hot and neutral to connect directly to the 30 element and wrap the stripped ground around one of the six access screws and tighten to ground the chassis, if the controller fails and need to use the PID till i do the no back removal on it.   The power cord is an element tester since it isolates the element for anomalies when the element fails after heating a bit when it ohms correctly and no short when cold. So when the free 30 didn't heat I unplugged it, connected power cord and ground. It started heating the went directly to make an access in the back to check limit switch. Bingo. Looks like a scortch mark on the black rubber insulation and whats left of the lug in the rusty junction box.


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 23, 2021)

Auber 1510H showed up on the porch the other day. Just did a boil test on the probes and apparently water boils at my house at 211,  both probes, temp and mini food.  Probably haul the MES into the garage one day this week and do it up. Too much going on this weekend to mess with it.  Still debating on the mailbox or ammo can....


----------



## tallbm (Oct 24, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Auber 1510H showed up on the porch the other day. Just did a boil test on the probes and apparently water boils at my house at 211,  both probes, temp and mini food.  Probably haul the MES into the garage one day this week and do it up. Too much going on this weekend to mess with it.  Still debating on the mailbox or ammo can....


Nice, soon you will be one of us :D


----------



## Ringer (Oct 24, 2021)

So just curious but how is the smoke ring on the things you guys cook in these with the mailbox mod. I know it's not necessarily important but I do like it as an aesthetic point.

I'm not expecting it to be like my 300 gallon rf but some smoke ring would be nice.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 24, 2021)

Ringer said:


> So just curious but how is the smoke ring on the things you guys cook in these with the mailbox mod. I know it's not necessarily important but I do like it as an aesthetic point.
> 
> I'm not expecting it to be like my 300 gallon rf but some smoke ring would be nice.


With an electric it's non-existent.

Someone on here burns a few charcoal briquettes in their electric to get a little smoke ring going.  I toyed around with some ideas but never tried them.  Thought if I crushed up some charcoal into the bottom of my AMNPS tray and then put pellets on top I thought it might do something but never tried.


----------



## Ringer (Oct 24, 2021)

tallbm said:


> With an electric it's non-existent.
> 
> Someone on here burns a few charcoal briquettes in their electric to get a little smoke ring going.  I toyed around with some ideas but never tried them.  Thought if I crushed up some charcoal into the bottom of my AMNPS tray and then put pellets on top I thought it might do something but never tried.


The convenience is worth it as long as the flavor is there 

I may toy around with some things, the b and b competition logs maybe?

Maybe light 1 or 2 really well and keep a little airflow going.


----------



## Ringer (Oct 26, 2021)

The auber wifi pid came in yesterday and the rest came in today from Amazon. I am going to do the ammo can mod.

I rewired the mes 30 a few minutes ago and plugged it directly into the wall...it heats up and smokes. Even got a small flame from a stray old chip or 2. Thanks 

 tallbm
 for the write up. My mes 30 looked significantly different than the pics in the thread but it's not hard to figure out.

I need to get a new router to use the wifi feature as these run on the 2.4ghz band. Comcast thought they would be smart and take away the ability to name the 2.4 and 5 ghz ssids differently. Now my phone wants to connect to the 5ghz and the auber app barks at me. Oh well, easy cheap fix.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 26, 2021)

Ringer said:


> The auber wifi pid came in yesterday and the rest came in today from Amazon. I am going to do the ammo can mod.
> 
> I rewired the mes 30 a few minutes ago and plugged it directly into the wall...it heats up and smokes. Even got a small flame from a stray old chip or 2. Thanks
> 
> ...



Nice man, welcome to the PID club!!! :D

You are about to enter a whole new world of amazing BBQ my friend.
Also make sure you get a Comcast approved router to save yourself from having to send a router back.  Also I think if you return the router they stop charging you monthly for using their router... if it is like that there with your service.

Soon you will be doing sausage, bacon, jerky, cold smokes, etc. etc. all with precision!

If you start cold smoking let us know and we can give you some tips on keeping the air circulating to avoid stale smoke flavors on the food.  It's another little gadget project I think you would like :)


----------



## Ringer (Oct 26, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Nice man, welcome to the PID club!!! :D
> 
> You are about to enter a whole new world of amazing BBQ my friend.
> Also make sure you get a Comcast approved router to save yourself from having to send a router back.  Also I think if you return the router they stop charging you monthly for using their router... if it is like that there with your service.
> ...


Thanks for all the help! 

I'll post back in here as soon as I get some meat on. I've got some dinos that need smoking.

Tomorrow I'll pick up my ammo box and get that out of the way.


----------



## postmeister (Oct 26, 2021)

hooked on smoke said:


> I followed tallbm's instructions. I tell you what, I am seriously challenged when it comes to stuff like this but the way he layed it out even I had no problems. Thanks tallbm!
> I don't recall what model Auber I got but man my Mes40 is great now. Seems to jack up my electric bill though, is that normal?



Me think you should cut down on them packers, like once a month. See if your bill getting better.


----------



## Ringer (Oct 27, 2021)

Ammo can mod is complete. I'm going to grab another router and get this thing up and running.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 27, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Ammo can mod is complete. I'm going to grab another router and get this thing up and running.


Lookin good!


----------



## steves8860 (Oct 27, 2021)

cmayna said:


> Mine is a WS-1510ELPM.  No problems at all.     Extremely reliable.  Here’s a pic of my setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks like you have added a chimney vent. That is something that I have been looking for some info about but no one responded.

I am thinking about putting a seal around my door and adding a vent. I figure if I seal the door I need a vent.

Anyhow, any thoughts?


----------



## cmayna (Oct 27, 2021)

Oops!   That metal pipe in the background was part of the fence when I took the photo.  Yes the smoker has a vent on top, but does not protrude up.    Sorry for the error.


----------



## steves8860 (Oct 29, 2021)

cmayna said:


> Oops!   That metal pipe in the background was part of the fence when I took the photo.  Yes the smoker has a vent on top, but does not protrude up.    Sorry for the error.



Hahaha!


----------



## mr_whipple (Oct 29, 2021)

Looks good! I'm way behind on every thing around here. Hopefully get the MES wired up today.


----------



## tallbm (Oct 29, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Looks good! I'm way behind on every thing around here. Hopefully get the MES wired up today.



Nice!  If you have any tuning setting questions here are some values that may work very well or get you very much into the ballpark:

1.   P7, I208, D210
2.   P3, I210, D0


----------



## dr k (Oct 29, 2021)

I've been using P mode since I got the Auber Jan 2018 with the Mes 40.  The 30 I'm sure is different.  My go to rack is the second from the top and I hang the probe from the top rack threaded down the top vent on the right side.  The heat will be hottest just under the top vent on that side stacking like a water heater to get out as air moves around so near my food on that side the sensor is an inch off the right wall gets me my upper cabinet temp, max temp and all other areas around my food is that or cooler. 10 degrees cooler on the left side with food in.  So P=1, I=0 and D=0. One degree below set temp is full power and 1/2 degree below is 50% pulsing and set temp off for 225+ smokes.  The resolution is in single degrees but the controller reacts in tenths not seen.  So If I change P to 3 and leave others 0, then three degrees below set temp is 3/3 full power, then two degrees below set temp is 2/3, 66%, then one degree is 1/3, 33%, then off at set temp.  This is good for fish, sausage low temp ramping up.  In P mode at P=1 gives 50% flashing power the highest power reaction when coming down from set temp so cooking at 275 will react the fastest to eliminate down swing over a few cycles and no overshoot set temp.  If P=0 no matter I and O setting it's an on/off controller like the stock Mes controller.  I set the temp ten degrees below desired cooking temp for a few cycles then set to my fixed cook temp.  No waiting (flashing) pulsing power well below set temp.  The controller cruises right to it and overshoots on preheating not with a heat sink of meat but cools faster at the beginning of the smoke so 5-6 degree down swing and shortens in a few cycles  At higher temps or max 275 I need a fast reaction when dropping below set temp and P mode seems to do it the best vs out of the box P7, I600 and D150 setting as well as autotune.  Give it a shot just write down settings and go back to your favorite setting.  It seems full PID mode with a variable >0 in all three areas is for smaller volumes and/or small vents like smokers with a 3/4" vent.  The hotter you cook with a larger vent with a large volume seem to need a fast reaction for P mode.


----------



## Ringer (Oct 31, 2021)

The first smoke went ok. I learned a few things.

Issue 1: backdraft. I got what seemed like reverse airflow at times where smoke would vent out of the ammo can damper rather than the cabinet damper.

Would a stack on the cabinet better help it to draw?

Also, when I screwed the ammo can onto the cabinet, I did not seal around it. I will go back with some rtv or silicone and fix that.

Issue #2: pellets in amps won't stay lit. I did dry them in the microwave beforehand and it was slightly damp outside but I had to relight several times.

This may be directly related to Issue #1.

Do my thoughts seem logical here? Am I missing anything?


----------



## cmayna (Oct 31, 2021)

Was the damper vent on the ammo box, fully open?  Put holes on the bottom of the ammo box to add more direct venting to the lit pellets, especially those lit on the opposite end of the ammo box from the damper vent?


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

cmayna said:


> Was the damper vent on the ammo box, fully open?  Put holes on the bottom of the ammo box to add more direct venting to the lit pellets, especially those lit on the opposite end of the ammo box from the damper vent?


I tried the damper in several positions. Fully open resulted in smoke flowing out of the damper on the ammo can.


----------



## cmayna (Nov 1, 2021)

I assume the vent at the top of the smoker was fully open?  

Regarding a stack on top as you previously asked,  I really don't think it is needed unless you were considering cold smoking (heat turned off).

When you installed the AMNPS in the ammo box, was the lit pellets near the damper or on the opposite end ?   Just doesn't sound like enough air is getting to the pellets.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

cmayna said:


> I assume the vent at the top of the smoker was fully open?
> 
> Regarding a stack on top as you previously asked,  I really don't think it is needed unless you were considering cold smoking (heat turned off).
> 
> When you installed the AMNPS in the ammo box, was the lit pellets near the damper or on the opposite end ?   Just doesn't sound like enough air is getting to the pellets.


The top damper is fully open. I placed the lit end of the tray near the damper. It's like the air isn't flowing at all or backwards even. The chip dump is fully removed.

The damper is to the right of the tray in the attached picture.

I will seal around the box today but I'm not sure if that will help any.


----------



## cmayna (Nov 1, 2021)

Still feel holes are needed thru the bottom.    Hopefully others will chime in.


----------



## dr k (Nov 1, 2021)

The airflow in your set up takes the path of least resistance from the damper to the chip loader hole, diagonally across part of the tray. That's why the mailbox with all air coming in through the door hinge or holes in the door, across the elevated amnps so air goes under over the pellets to the 3" hole in the top rear of the mailbox. I plugged all corners and mounting holes in the bottom of the box except the two pencil holes closest to the door and I drilled a pencil sized hole between the two. I plugged the bottom grease drain hole and foiled over the hole in the bottom drip pan. All incoming air passes the pellets and the lit edge of the amnps is right above the three holes. Plenty of air comes in at the hinge and each row has its own vent below with no holes in the door. I was going to add holes in the door if necessary but wasn't needed. I made a rack to elevate the amnps. Some use binder clips on each corner or weld bolts for legs. All pellets burn to white ash no black pellets left behind. 
















This was before I drilled the middle hole in the bottom. I rarely use three rows of pellets so I screw a botlt from under the mailbox to plug  the right side hole so more air at the two holes to the left. You can rotate the tray every 3-4 hours after the burn turns the corner so  the lit pellets are towards the door and burn with the airflow, optional.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

dr k said:


> The airflow in your set up takes the path of least resistance from the damper to the chip loader hole, diagonally across part of the tray. That's why the mailbox with all air coming in through the door hinge or holes in the door, across the elevated amnps so air goes under over the pellets to the 3" hole in the top rear of the mailbox. I plugged all corners and mounting holes in the bottom of the box except the two pencil holes closest to the door and I drilled a pencil sized hole between the two. I plugged the bottom grease drain hole and foiled over the hole in the bottom drip pan. All incoming air passes the pellets and the lit edge of the amnps is right above the three holes. Plenty of air comes in at the hinge and each row has its own vent below with no holes in the door. I was going to add holes in the door if necessary but wasn't needed. I made a rack to elevate the amnps. Some use binder clips on each corner or weld bolts for legs. All pellets burn to white ash no black pellets left behind.
> View attachment 515205
> 
> View attachment 515206
> ...


So do I just need do elevate my tray?


----------



## cmayna (Nov 1, 2021)

I have my tray elevated just like what DaveOmak and others have done.  Since you don't have such height to play with as I have using a regular size mailbox, some binder clips acting as legs would not hurt.  I still don't think that it will resolve your issue.   To me, you still need holes in the bottom panel.   If you do install the holes and find out they weren't needed, you can always cover the holes with a thin piece of aluminum sheeting.
Here’s a pic of one of my elevated amnps’s


----------



## tallbm (Nov 1, 2021)

+1 for holes in the bottom.  I would wager that holes in the bottom mean you don't have to lift the AMNPS since air is coming right from below it but it will be a test and tweak kind of thing.

I wonder if the vent on the bottom would have been the way to go.  You are the Guinea pig for this build so we are all going to learn from your tweaks and what works :)


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

tallbm said:


> +1 for holes in the bottom.  I would wager that holes in the bottom mean you don't have to lift the AMNPS since air is coming right from below it but it will be a test and tweak kind of thing.
> 
> I wonder if the vent on the bottom would have been the way to go.  You are the Guinea pig for this build so we are all going to learn from your tweaks and what works :)



I did notice that there was virtually no seal going around the box where it fits to the cabinet. 

The first thing I did was to seal it with a good rtv silicone. 

I may do a test burn later tonight to see if that helped any. 

I'm willing to bet that you guys are right on target with the vent needing to be on the bottom. 

I will elevate the tray before testing.

If that does not resolve it, I will move the damper to the bottom of the box and cover the previous hole as you guys have suggested. 

I will report back with a solution or more questions...lol


----------



## tallbm (Nov 1, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I did notice that there was virtually no seal going around the box where it fits to the cabinet.
> 
> The first thing I did was to seal it with a good rtv silicone.
> 
> ...



I am positive you will solve the problem.  This is just the tinkering that has to happen but it will solve a lot of issues for anyone doing a mailbox mod like yours in the future.

Also here's a pro-tip. Keep a pair of long all metal tongs out there on top of the box. If you have a pellet flame up situation you will need the tongs to remove the flaming AMNPS. I've had a few flame ups randomly happy (gusts of wind out of nowhere) and being able to remove the pellets is mandatory. My mailbox mod is modular and I just put on an oven mitt and grab it and move it to the concreate porch so it can burn out without overheating my smoker :)

A pair of long metal tongs would all you to do the same kind of thing once you open your ammo can.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

tallbm said:


> I am positive you will solve the problem.  This is just the tinkering that has to happen but it will solve a lot of issues for anyone doing a mailbox mod like yours in the future.
> 
> Also here's a pro-tip. Keep a pair of long all metal tongs out there on top of the box. If you have a pellet flame up situation you will need the tongs to remove the flaming AMNPS. I've had a few flame ups randomly happy (gusts of wind out of nowhere) and being able to remove the pellets is mandatory. My mailbox mod is modular and I just put on an oven mitt and grab it and move it to the concreate porch so it can burn out without overheating my smoker :)
> 
> A pair of long metal tongs would all you to do the same kind of thing once you open your ammo can.



Ok so I went ahead and did the seal up with rtv and elevated the tray 2.5 inches. There is actually embossing on the side of the mes that makes for a very uneven surface and ammo cans aren't exactly flat either.

It is now directly in the airflow path.

That being said, I want to give the rtv time to cure so it may be tomorrow before I do a test smoke. I have a rack of dinos that are begging to be cooked. 

If that doesn't do it then I'll relocate the ammo box damper. 

Here are some pics for those that run into something similar.


----------



## normanaj (Nov 1, 2021)

Your "mailbox" mod basically is to close to the MES and on the same level as the heating element.The smoke has nowhere to go but pile up in the ammo can.

Get a length of 3" aluminum dryer hose and put your ammo can(aka mailbox) underneath the MES and you will be golden.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

normanaj said:


> Your "mailbox" mod basically is to close to the MES and on the same level as the heating element.The smoke has nowhere to go but pile up in the ammo can.
> 
> Get a length of 3" aluminum dryer hose and put your ammo can(aka mailbox) underneath the MES and you will be golden.


So short of moving the can l, there isn't anything I can do to create the draw needed to move the smothe into the cabinet?


----------



## tallbm (Nov 1, 2021)

Ringer said:


> So short of moving the can l, there isn't anything I can do to create the draw needed to move the smothe into the cabinet?



Well there is the use of a stack but you'll know how things behave here soon when you run your test.

I wouldn't fret, this is a solvable problem. It will just take a few iterations of tinkering to sort it out :)


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Well there is the use of a stack but you'll know how things behave here soon when you run your test.
> 
> I wouldn't fret, this is a solvable problem. It will just take a few iterations of tinkering to sort it out :)


Well, my curiosity over rode my ability to let the rtv cure for 24 hrs. I decided I'd better test it before reconfiguring it all.

Results: with the ammo can damper fully open, I get a puff of smoke backfire every now and then. Smoke comes out of the cabinet.

With it half closed, I get no backfire smoke and smoke comes out the cabinet damper as it is supposed to. It's not alot but that's good.

When I open the ammo can door, smoke pours out so it has to be going somewhere. I'd say it's much better off.

I may still open up the cabinet damper lid by means of a dremel or just removing it.

What I won't know for a while is will my pellets stay lit.


----------



## cmayna (Nov 1, 2021)

Assuming your video is showing your smoker's exhaust vent, how far down from the top is it located?    How does the smoke inside, above the vent,  get out?  

More job security-LOL  Actually  my question is directed more towards Masterbuilt.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

cmayna said:


> Assuming your video is showing your smoker's exhaust vent, how far down from the top is it located?    How does the smoke inside, above the vent,  get out?
> 
> More job security-LOL  Actually  my question is directed more towards Masterbuilt.


I'd say it's roughly 4 inches or so from the roof. 

Think I should relocate it?


----------



## cmayna (Nov 1, 2021)

4"  is not that bad, but maybe put it on your "items to address later" list.   Maybe ask for a hole saw from Santa?


----------



## Ringer (Nov 1, 2021)

cmayna said:


> 4"  is not that bad, but maybe put it on your "items to address later" list.   Maybe ask for a hole saw from Santa?


I like that idea. When I do that I'll probably
 make a stack out of it.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 1, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I like that idea. When I do that I'll probably
> make a stack out of it.


Yeah with it being a side vent I would smoker stack it something like this:

It may help with cold smoking too. If it doesn't help with cold smoking I have another cool tinkering project for you and the stack itself, basically make this but with the smoker stack :







This little contraption fixes all my cold smoking stale smoke issues.  It blows air up the cardboard stack which pulls air and smoke out of my smoker when cold smoking.  Worksl ike a charm! :)


----------



## dr k (Nov 2, 2021)

Wind blowing into the top side vent hole will back draft more than a top vent that wind blows across. If you're still having burn issues I'd get that entire tray between the air coming in the bottom six hole at the bottom lid seal and the chip loader hole to the smoker. Patch/ seal the damper hole you cut. No need for damper on ammo can. Six pencil holes along the length of the amnps.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 2, 2021)

dr k said:


> Wind blowing into the top side vent hole will back draft more than a top vent that wind blows across. If you're still having burn issues I'd get that entire tray between the air coming in the bottom six hole at the bottom lid seal and the chip loader hole to the smoker. Patch/ seal the damper hole you cut. No need for damper on ammo can. Six pencil holes along the length of the amnps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do think wind was alot of my issue. 

Thank you all for the suggestions. I will continue to work on this.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 2, 2021)

I am smoking some dinos today as a test. I started with the tray and added some chops to the pellets. 

No go, wouldn't stay lit. On a whim, I filled up my old amaze n tube, lit it and stuck it in the cabinet. 

It is still going strong 2 hrs later.

I may continue to fiddle with the ammo can holes on the bottom and stack ideas but it's good to know I have a temporary solution. Just reporting back here in case others encounter this.


----------



## cmayna (Nov 2, 2021)

When using a tube with an electric smoker, I suggest filling it up half way, turn it on it's side and shake it left to right.  When done the tube should be half filled, horizontally.  This is plenty of pellets for an electric smoker.   It also works for regular size mailboxes like what I use.    Using a totally filled up amaze n tube in these smokers generates too much smoke.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 2, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I am smoking some dinos today as a test. I started with the tray and added some chops to the pellets.
> 
> No go, wouldn't stay lit. On a whim, I filled up my old amaze n tube, lit it and stuck it in the cabinet.
> 
> ...



Never tried chips but believe I read many guys failing with a chip/pellet combo in the past.  
I have hard that some broken up charcoal at the bottom of the tray and then pellets on top keeps things going well.  Never tried it but maybe someday I will with 100% cherry pellets since they HATE to burn alone.  I just never have charcoal so I will need to get a few briquettes from my brother sometime so I can break them up and try.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 2, 2021)

Here is the test result. I pulled them at 203 degrees and they are resting now.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 2, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Here is the test result. I pulled them at 203 degrees and they are resting now.



Lookin pretty good!  How'd everything perform with your new changes?


----------



## bill1 (Nov 2, 2021)

If you're hesitant to "experimentally" drill more holes in the bottom of your "firebox", you can make a manifold that directs your existing side damper's air inlet down to the bottom of your pellet tray....

push the pellet tray to the side of your fire/ammo box (ie the front side of your smoker) so it's about 1/4" from the side without a damper.  
cut a piece of sheet metal (5 or 6 thicknesses of heavy gauge aluminum foil may work) so that it fits at an angle from the top of your damper to the edge of the pellet tray.  I think you can form about a 30-60-90 triangle this way.
notch the _bottom _of this manifold sheet about 2" wide and 1" high so the only path for the incoming air is down to the underneath of the pellet tray. This will be like adding holes to the bottom without actually cutting the holes.  
make sure this slanted manifold extends all the way from the "bottom" of the ammo box to the "top" (handle) so that there's no leakage path for the air to take to the burning pellets _except_ down and over.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 2, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Lookin pretty good!  How'd everything perform with your new changes?


Still getting flame out inside the ammo box. I ended up putting a tube full of pellets inside the cabinet and it burned the entire time. Good smoke all in all.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 2, 2021)

bill1 said:


> If you're hesitant to "experimentally" drill more holes in the bottom of your "firebox", you can make a manifold that directs your existing side damper's air inlet down to the bottom of your pellet tray....
> 
> push the pellet tray to the side of your fire/ammo box (ie the front side of your smoker) so it's about 1/4" from the side without a damper.
> cut a piece of sheet metal (5 or 6 thicknesses of heavy gauge aluminum foil may work) so that it fits at an angle from the top of your damper to the edge of the pellet tray.  I think you can form about a 30-60-90 triangle this way.
> ...


Thank you for the detailed suggestion, I may give this a shot.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 2, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Still getting flame out inside the ammo box. I ended up putting a tube full of pellets inside the cabinet and it burned the entire time. Good smoke all in all.



Yeah sounds like more air needed or changes to airflow needed for your tray.  It is reported that the tube doesn't need as much air, hence guys with pellet grills and other grill types using it successfully.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 2, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Yeah sounds like more air needed or changes to airflow needed for your tray.  It is reported that the tube doesn't need as much air, hence guys with pellet grills and other grill types using it successfully.


I'm going to pick up one of the stacks you recommended and most likely turn my ammo can mod into more of a mailbox mod using a length of duct piped into a flange attached to the pellet dump hole. 

It may be a little while but I'll post back here when I get to it.


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 3, 2021)

Looks like things are moving along, Ringer.  I still haven't got to rewiring mine yet. Got it in the garage and flipped it on its head to find no drilling required. All the covers are screwed on.  Got side tracked yet again. Maybe today or tomorrow.  What size ammo can is that you're using?


----------



## Ringer (Nov 3, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Looks like things are moving along, Ringer.  I still haven't got to rewiring mine yet. Got it in the garage and flipped it on its head to find no drilling required. All the covers are screwed on.  Got side tracked yet again. Maybe today or tomorrow.  What size ammo can is that you're using?
> 
> View attachment 515357
> View attachment 515358


Nice, it looks like yours is moving right along. Won't be long now.

I'm using a 50 cal can. Plenty of room for a tray and then some in that size.


----------



## normanaj (Nov 3, 2021)

Ringer said:


> On a whim, I filled up my old amaze n tube, lit it and stuck it in the cabinet.
> 
> It is still going strong 2 hrs later.





Ringer said:


> Still getting flame out inside the ammo box. I ended up putting a tube full of pellets inside the cabinet and it burned the entire time. Good smoke all in all.



A ubolt modified 12-18" tube burning ground pellets/dust will give you as much burn time as a fully loaded tray.


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 5, 2021)

I finally got around to this yesterday after work and oh boy did I over think this whole thing.  I swear I went thru this whole thread and a few others, but looks like I missed it.  Anyway, I was just about to start cutting the terminals off the wires and splice them together with some handy dandy solder splices when It dawned on me I didn't need to do that.  All I had to do was unplug the two connectors from the power plug and the element and put them together,  Voila, done. Plugged it in to see if it worked and we have a winner. Now onto the ammo can.


Pulled that plastic box out and removed the controller





Much neater than before. Zip tied the wires that remained.






Anyone wants this thing and the box it was in, let me know. It worked before I took it out, and I have zero use for it.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 5, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> I finally got around to this yesterday after work and oh boy did I over think this whole thing.  I swear I went thru this whole thread and a few others, but looks like I missed it.  Anyway, I was just about to start cutting the terminals off the wires and splice them together with some handy dandy solder splices when It dawned on me I didn't need to do that.  All I had to do was unplug the two connectors from the power plug and the element and put them together,  Voila, done. Plugged it in to see if it worked and we have a winner. Now onto the ammo can.
> 
> 
> Pulled that plastic box out and removed the controller
> ...


As others have suggested in this thread there may be some things you want to try to get better airflow through the ammo can.

Don't use a damper on the side like I did.

It has been recommended that you can:
1. Use a stack on the exhaust
2. Relocate the ammo can to a shelf under the cabinet and use ductwork to pipe the smoke in.
3. Drill 6 pencil sized holes under the amnps tray.

I have been unable to keep a tray of pellets lit thus far with my setup.

A tube stays lit inside the cabinet just fine for me.

Just food for thought, pun intended.


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 5, 2021)

Ringer said:


> As others have suggested in this thread there may be some things you want to try to get better airflow through the ammo can.
> 
> Don't use a damper on the side like I did.
> 
> ...


I plan on piping the smoke in. Already have the elbows and aluminum flex pipe.   

The exhaust stack is something I was wondering about. I don't have any experience with air flow as it relates to smokers. 

My biggest concern is the airflow holes on the ammo can. My setup is going to sit on my wood deck, so I'm thinking that I'll need to put the ammo can on a metal pan or something.  I just have visions of embers etc getting out of the can somehow.


----------



## cmayna (Nov 5, 2021)

Yes if a ammo box or mailbox is being used on a wooden deck,  I would protect the deck with a metal sheeting material,  metal tray, etc.  When installing holes on the bottom of the ammo or mailbox, might consider some legs on the box to help allow a good airflow to the holes on the bottom.
Here's the bottom side of my mailbox showing some wooden legs and holes in da' bottum.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 5, 2021)

I went ahead and made some changes.
I added a stack and patched the damper hole in the ammo can and poked 6 pencil sized holes in the bottom.

I'll post back the results when I can test


----------



## tallbm (Nov 5, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> I finally got around to this yesterday after work and oh boy did I over think this whole thing.  I swear I went thru this whole thread and a few others, but looks like I missed it.  Anyway, I was just about to start cutting the terminals off the wires and splice them together with some handy dandy solder splices when It dawned on me I didn't need to do that.  All I had to do was unplug the two connectors from the power plug and the element and put them together,  Voila, done. Plugged it in to see if it worked and we have a winner. Now onto the ammo can.
> 
> 
> Pulled that plastic box out and removed the controller
> ...


Yeah I saw yours had the clips which is nice and easy.  If no clips you just cut and splice.  Same result in either case :)






Ringer said:


> I went ahead and made some changes.
> I added a stack and patched the damper hole in the ammo can and poked 6 pencil sized holes in the bottom.
> 
> I'll post back the results when I can test


How's it working now?


----------



## cmayna (Nov 5, 2021)

Looks very promising.  Let us know how it goes


----------



## Ringer (Nov 7, 2021)

Apparently this smoker has found a place in my heart. 

I felt compelled to use some scrap wood I had laying around to build a decent stand for it. 36 inches tall puts the smoker at eye level for me. I still haven't fired it up since the last round of mods. Hopefully soon.


----------



## muddydogs (Nov 7, 2021)

I find that the round or square pellet tubes https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pellet+tube&ref=nb_sb_noss_1&tag=smokingmeatforums-20 held up with a U bolt at each end work better then a pellet tray in my mailbox mods. I push the tube to the back of the mailbox so its close to the outflow pipe for best burn. 
Once you have the pellets smoking in the tube if you can't blow on the smoking pellets and get a flame going you don't have the pellets burning enough to stay lit in the mailbox. Apply more flame and let the pellets burn a little longer before placing tube in mailbox.


----------



## zwiller (Nov 8, 2021)

Happened to check this thread out.  Getting serious about an Auber now.  Also, I have my mailbox directly attached to my smoker and from trial and error I found I needed much larger holes on the bottom for better results.  For cold smoking I need to put the tray inside the smoker tho or no draft.  Might steal the ammo box idea too!


----------



## Ringer (Nov 8, 2021)

zwiller said:


> Happened to check this thread out.  Getting serious about an Auber now.  Also, I have my mailbox directly attached to my smoker and from trial and error I found I needed much larger holes on the bottom for better results.  For cold smoking I need to put the tray inside the smoker tho or no draft.  Might steal the ammo box idea too!


How large did you go with your holes on the bottom?

I put 6  - 1/4 inch holes in mine.

You won't regret an auber at all. It brought this thing back to life and now it is slowly becoming one of my favorite smokers.


----------



## zwiller (Nov 8, 2021)

I was real scientific at first and did math for it but later I just started grabbing bits and going nuts LOL.  I think a bit bigger than 1/4" but would need to measure.   WRT the Auber.  Won't lie, I'd rather have a Smokin It but would rather save $1000 and get similar performance.    Tempted to go wifi and I am not huge gadget guy but lots of good features for that extra $100.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 8, 2021)

zwiller said:


> I was real scientific at first and did math for it but later I just started grabbing bits and going nuts LOL.  I think a bit bigger than 1/4" but would need to measure.   WRT the Auber.  Won't lie, I'd rather have a Smokin It but would rather save $1000 and get similar performance.    Tempted to go wifi and I am not huge gadget guy but lots of good features for that extra $100.


I went wifi to keep from having to use the wierdo interface. It's clunky at best. Lots of guys use it just fine but the wifi model puts it all clearly labeled in an app. I also like not having to stop what I'm doing to check Temps. 

It does disconnect every now and then but I just restart the app and all is well. 

If I had it to do over, I'd still go wifi.


----------



## zwiller (Nov 8, 2021)

Ringer said:


> I went wifi to keep from having to use the wierdo interface. It's clunky at best. Lots of guys use it just fine but the wifi model puts it all clearly labeled in an app. I also like not having to stop what I'm doing to check Temps.
> 
> It does disconnect every now and then but I just restart the app and all is well.
> 
> If I had it to do over, I'd still go wifi.


MAN, I was hoping the wifi would be solid by now.  Does it lose the history data when it disconnects?  Might be dealbreaker for me.  You may have posted it but I forgot, where did you get the ammo box?  50ca right?


----------



## Ringer (Nov 8, 2021)

zwiller said:


> MAN, I was hoping the wifi would be solid by now.  Does it lose the history data when it disconnects?  Might be dealbreaker for me.  You may have posted it but I forgot, where did you get the ammo box?  50ca right?


It didn't lose history with me, just restart the app and all is well. It actually may have been my fault.

So you can get the 50 cal ammo cans at harbour freight on sale for $12. I think $18 is the normal price. This one came from spoetsmans warehouse.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 8, 2021)

Ringer said:


> How large did you go with your holes on the bottom?
> 
> I put 6  - 1/4 inch holes in mine.
> 
> You won't regret an auber at all. It brought this thing back to life and now it is slowly becoming one of my favorite smokers.


Oh yes a PID smoker grows on you quickly.  Just wait until you have worked all the kinks out of your mailbox mod.  Your system will just continue to impress you.

FYI, I wired in a safety rollout limit switch that has a cut-off threshold of 354F just so I could do 325F poultry smokes and get birds with edible and often crispy skin.  It's the only time I crank it up that high and the smokes/cookes never exceed 4 hours.  The insulation isn't really rated to withstand long running operating temps that high but for some chickens or a turkey I do it.  All other smokes, never more than 275F from me.

This is not for everyone and especially not for those who do not monitor their systems well.  Just explaining this because my smoker can do ANY smoke out there.  Cold smoking with no heat, to sausage/bacon/jerky, to normal ribs/pork butt/brisket, to skin on chicken and turkey :)

There are no limits on my set up other than prolonged really hot smokes (300F+ for many hours).  So I can basically do it all and do it all with precision :)


----------



## zwiller (Nov 8, 2021)

That's encouraging.  I got an Inkbird wifi remote therm setup and was funky BUT cheap so...  Was hoping HF, one in my town.


----------



## muddydogs (Nov 9, 2021)

zwiller said:


> Happened to check this thread out.  Getting serious about an Auber now.  Also, I have my mailbox directly attached to my smoker and from trial and error I found I needed much larger holes on the bottom for better results.  For cold smoking I need to put the tray inside the smoker tho or no draft.  Might steal the ammo box idea too!


The dryer hose between the mailbox and smoker plus having the mailbox lower then the smoker just a little helps with the cold smoking draft, most of the time mine drafts great but for the days when things don't want to draft I have a small computer fan I set over the outflow vent to help it along. I picked up the fan off Amazon for under $10 and wired in an old cell phone wall charger to power it.
Another way to get a draft while cold smoking is add a little heat to the cabinet, if I'm cold smoking at temps below 50 I will warm the smoker up to 60 ish degrees just to get things started. When cold smoking I am only seeing a temp increase of 3 degrees in the cabinet when burning pellets in the mailbox with about 3 foot of dryer hose. Burning pellets in the smoker cabinet increased my temp 10 to 15 degrees which can be to much depending on outside temps especially when smoking butter.
Since this thread is about using a PID I will add I have been using the Auber PID for a number of years and it works great. I purchased mine before the WIFI model but I don't see much need for it. The PID holds the set temp and never wavers. I do have a Mor Pilot 6 probe Bluetooth thermometer that I use to monitor pit and meat temps.


----------



## dogwalker (Nov 9, 2021)

I'm *really* challenged when it comes to electronics (I'm a software developer, but hardware kills me - well, let's hope not literally), but this is interesting.  I have an old 40" MES 20070311 that works great, except I keep having to fix the connectors every few months, even though I've tried the high temperature ones.  I've tried soldering, etc, but must be doing it wrong.  I've been considering replacing the whole smoker with either another electric or one of the egg type grills/smokers.

Well, now a friend who's much better at this kind of thing than I am is going to come over to help me look at it.  If we're going to do this anyway, maybe we should try to tackle the PID.  So, is the PID solely to hold temperatures better or can it also help with this problem of the connectors?

thanks!


----------



## Ringer (Nov 9, 2021)

dogwalker said:


> I'm *really* challenged when it comes to electronics (I'm a software developer, but hardware kills me - well, let's hope not literally), but this is interesting.  I have an old 40" MES 20070311 that works great, except I keep having to fix the connectors every few months, even though I've tried the high temperature ones.  I've tried soldering, etc, but must be doing it wrong.  I've been considering replacing the whole smoker with either another electric or one of the egg type grills/smokers.
> 
> Well, now a friend who's much better at this kind of thing than I am is going to come over to help me look at it.  If we're going to do this anyway, maybe we should try to tackle the PID.  So, is the PID solely to hold temperatures better or can it also help with this problem of the connectors?
> 
> thanks!


The pid is for more stable temp control and programming variable temp cooks. 

It won't help with any physical connections but some of the others in this thread probably can. 

 tallbm


----------



## zwiller (Nov 9, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Oh yes a PID smoker grows on you quickly.  Just wait until you have worked all the kinks out of your mailbox mod.  Your system will just continue to impress you.
> 
> FYI, I wired in a safety rollout limit switch that has a cut-off threshold of 354F just so I could do 325F poultry smokes and get birds with edible and often crispy skin.  It's the only time I crank it up that high and the smokes/cookes never exceed 4 hours.  The insulation isn't really rated to withstand long running operating temps that high but for some chickens or a turkey I do it.  All other smokes, never more than 275F from me.
> 
> ...



I forgot just how cheap it is to DIY for PID.  HECK YEAH doing 325F.  I ran jerk chicken on my gas grill at around 325F with a tube and was the best chicken I ever did.   I like the simplicity of the Auber being PNP but that money can go towards a Smokin It (the dream).


----------



## tallbm (Nov 9, 2021)

dogwalker said:


> I'm *really* challenged when it comes to electronics (I'm a software developer, but hardware kills me - well, let's hope not literally), but this is interesting.  I have an old 40" MES 20070311 that works great, except I keep having to fix the connectors every few months, even though I've tried the high temperature ones.  I've tried soldering, etc, but must be doing it wrong.  I've been considering replacing the whole smoker with either another electric or one of the egg type grills/smokers.
> 
> Well, now a friend who's much better at this kind of thing than I am is going to come over to help me look at it.  If we're going to do this anyway, maybe we should try to tackle the PID.  So, is the PID solely to hold temperatures better or can it also help with this problem of the connectors?
> 
> thanks!



I've had great luck using hi-temp supco connectors and heat shrink wrap insullation to keep my connectors from corroding all to hell.




You could also RTV hi temp silicon over the connectors to keep all the moisture and elements off of them but that's up to you.

I also THINK the heating element spades have a whole through them if you wanted to use something very heavy duty to attach the wire to them. Something more like the design of a terminal or amplifier block screw (and a matching nut). Something like this but of appropriate size:

Those screws are nickel plated steel so they should be very heat and weather resistant.  I would still insulation wrap or RTV them to be safe but that much real, plated, and thick metal should fasten a wire to your heating element spades and not wear out for a long time to come under normal circumstances :)

I hope this info helps :)


----------



## zwiller (Nov 9, 2021)

Agree.  I think rtv is a great idea since I suspect galvanic corrosion is the issue.  Heat shrink could also work but should be waterproof type.  Also maybe caulk the cover to prevent moisture getting in there in the first place.


----------



## dogwalker (Nov 9, 2021)

Thanks, guys, for the links and suggestions!  And to the person who mentioned 325 degrees, I didn't realize that these PIDs will let us exceed 275, that would be nice for chicken!

Thanks again!


----------



## Bearcarver (Nov 9, 2021)

dogwalker said:


> Thanks, guys, for the links and suggestions!  And to the person who mentioned 325 degrees, I didn't realize that these PIDs will let us exceed 275, that would be nice for chicken!
> 
> Thanks again!




I wouldn't go over 325°.
I think it was about 331° that I ran into a Crinkling Insulation Problem, between the interior walls, with my MES 40. That's why they have a limit on the stock controls of 275°.

Bear


----------



## tallbm (Nov 9, 2021)

dogwalker said:


> Thanks, guys, for the links and suggestions!  And to the person who mentioned 325 degrees, I didn't realize that these PIDs will let us exceed 275, that would be nice for chicken!
> 
> Thanks again!



Yeah it is nice but only for those that watch what they are doing.  The PID will go up super high, it doesn't care what it is controlling.  It's the MES that has the limitation not the PID :)

I would follow Bear's advice greatly when it comes to the temps you take your MES to with a PID.

I run a TON of probes measuring the smoker temp in multiple areas as well as the meat temps.
I am also mindful of not trying to overstress my MES so I only do that with faster poultry smokes.
Finally, I walk my temp up to 325F by starting at like 310F and letting it overshoot on initial heat up and then up to 325F so it doesn't do a massive overshoot over 325F.

Turkey's are already on sale for $0.99/lb here so I will be doing some soon.  Target had Butterball turkeys at that price and people go nuts over them.  I just get any old turkey brand and make great turkey but might have to grab me a butterball.  I'm kind of waiting for the $0.49/lb and $0.29/lb deals to roll in to score a few turkeys though :)


----------



## zwiller (Nov 9, 2021)

I looked at a DIY PID controller that went to 1300C (2372F) so how's that for hot and fast?   When I ran that jerk chicken I did not even need an hour at 325F so I am not worried too much but duly noted that 325F exceeds MB recommendations.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 10, 2021)

zwiller said:


> I looked at a DIY PID controller that went to 1300C (2372F) so how's that for hot and fast?   When I ran that jerk chicken I did not even need an hour at 325F so I am not worried too much but duly noted that 325F exceeds MB recommendations.



I have a strong hunch that when a stock MES hits 275F at the crappy sensor they install that the area around the element at  bottom and around lowest rack of the MES is actually closer to 325F or so.  Also their cut off switch is a 305F one so by the time it senses 305F then I'm sure the bottom and area around the element is above 325F.

I wouldn't go on an exercise to find out though.  I take Bear's word on what his readings were and when the crackling started.  I'm also thinking that with the PID controlling the heating element with a pulse that once the temp is reached the element is going full blast.  Just pulsing for a few seconds to hit and hold temp never even turning red hot.
Where the stock MES goes full blast and cycles on and off so if it was getting really hot that element would be red hot and going full bore.

So understanding a bit of this behavior also helps in knowing how NOT to ruin the MES if attempting a 325F smoke in it like I do. 

Just more knowledge to keep in the back of your head :)

If knowledge and understanding is not someone's strong suite then I would recommend to them not to attempt this at all hahaha :D


----------



## dr k (Nov 10, 2021)

tallbm said:


> I have a strong hunch that when a stock MES hits 275F at the crappy sensor they install that the area around the element at  bottom and around lowest rack of the MES is actually closer to 325F or so.  Also their cut off switch is a 305F one so by the time it senses 305F then I'm sure the bottom and area around the element is above 325F.
> 
> I wouldn't go on an exercise to find out though.  I take Bear's word on what his readings were and when the crackling started.  I'm also thinking that with the PID controlling the heating element with a pulse that once the temp is reached the element is going full blast.  Just pulsing for a few seconds to hit and hold temp never even turning red hot.
> Where the stock MES goes full blast and cycles on and off so if it was getting really hot that element would be red hot and going full bore.
> ...


Bingo!  Lots of pics with burned up insulation with the back removed in the element right rear corner, being shrouded in the metal chip burner system that traps heat. That's what is bad for insulation but is needed for the hysteresis to down coast to burn chips in the stock chip burner system. Flipping the element like the way MB did with the latest 440 and 430 series fixed that with an open element centered but ruined it with an independent chip/chuck burner with 5 settings on that 150 watt smoke generating element. I was a couple years ahead of MB. Then throw in a top broiler element with it's own snap disc. Too much s,.t to fail. I know my right rear corner was frying before  flipping the element. The burner flipped is now a little hotter left as you mentioned but easier to manage sliding the drip pan on the bottom rack a rung or half left to manage temps. If you have an all SS Mes 40, no black paint like the hybrids with moulded rack supports vs wire and just plastic around the door/window, then don't ever let it go. Youngsters on FB masterbuilt pages are replacing entire smokers 2-4x  and keep t hrowing $ at MB. At least after years and years of just gen 1, 2 and 2.5  Mes I know all digital foam insulated Mes at a glance I just need to know if it has black paint which is the deal breaker at the door jamb when it bubbles at the seal from boiling water etc in the water pan. Keep your all SS vs black painted Mes.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 10, 2021)

dr k said:


> Bingo!  Lots of pics with burned up insulation with the back removed in the element right rear corner, being shrouded in the metal chip burner system that traps heat. That's what is bad for insulation but is needed for the hysteresis to down coast to burn chips in the stock chip burner system. Flipping the element like the way MB did with the latest 440 and 430 series fixed that with an open element centered but ruined it with an independent chip/chuck burner with 5 settings on that 150 watt smoke generating element. I was a couple years ahead of MB. Then throw in a top broiler element with it's own snap disc. Too much s,.t to fail. I know my right rear corner was frying before  flipping the element. The burner flipped is now a little hotter left as you mentioned but easier to manage sliding the drip pan on the bottom rack a rung or half left to manage temps. If you have an all SS Mes 40, no black paint like the hybrids with moulded rack supports vs wire and just plastic around the door/window, then don't ever let it go. Youngsters on FB masterbuilt pages are replacing entire smokers 2-4x  and keep t hrowing $ at MB. At least after years and years of just gen 1, 2 and 2.5  Mes I know all digital foam insulated Mes at a glance I just need to know if it has black paint which is the deal breaker at the door jamb when it bubbles at the seal from boiling water etc in the water pan. Keep your all SS vs black painted Mes.



Great info about the SS vs the painted.  Never thought about that.
Yeah I would only roll with the SS simply so it handles elements better.  I don't want paint trying to do what SS can do when outside :)


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 12, 2021)

So... doing the trial run as I type for the Auber and the ammo can. So far so good, but looks like I needed to read the directions on the AMNPS. I did read the Auber manual. tallbm, your assessment of the writers involved with that is spot on   Anyhow, looks like the Auber is doing well set at 180. I've been in and out looking at it as I've nothing better to do.. ya right. after settling in it looks like a +1/-2 swing. No autotune or otherwise. I simply set the temp to 180 in the single step mode and let it roll. at first it dropped -3 when cycling, but since then its been rock solid at +1/-2. I just can't stop laughing at the fact of a $200 controller running a smoker with an attachment that looks like a drunk hillbilly put it together. No offense to the drunk hillbillies, as I've been known to pull a cork a time or two myself 

For what its worth, the 3' elbows and hose are all trial and error. I'm not fond of the look, so once I consider this a done deal, I'll clean up the connections between the elbows and the aluminum hose and paint it all hi temp grill black. Also, I used a 2-3/4 hole saw because I had one and said.... I can make it work. Oh boy did I have to grind the rest out so the elbow would fit. Besides, the air compressor needed to earn its keep.    I put three 3/8" holes in the end of the ammo can. Standard  5.56  can someone at work gave me a few of.  My only complaint is where the outlet is to run this.  If the chip loader and top vent were reversed it would be far better, but I run an extension cord to the pellet pooper so I'll just shut up and deal with it.

Looks like properly lighting the AMNPS is paying off... I guess we'll see.


----------



## zwiller (Nov 12, 2021)

Heads up if anyone is looking, Auber running a Thanksgiving sale.  I dove in and a proud new owner of the wifi model.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 12, 2021)

zwiller said:


> Heads up if anyone is looking, Auber running a Thanksgiving sale.  I dove in and a proud new owner of the wifi model.


Oh nice!!! And they rarely run sales or discounts so good catch!

Also good idea on just buying one vs building one. You THINK it doesn't cost much to build one then you buy all the parts, tools, consumables (connectors, shrink wrap, etc.), and find out it cost way more to build AND is a pain in the ass if you don't have the proper setup like a drill press, a nice way to cut rectangles, etc. etc.

Buy once cry once in this case.... unless you just love projects and the money isn't that big of an issue.  I built a PID for my brother and saved maybe $40 vs buying an Auber.  I had lots of consumables left over from another PID build that allowed me to save $40 but the time spent over 2 days was worth well more than $40 if you want to actually factor that in :)


----------



## tallbm (Nov 12, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> So... doing the trial run as I type for the Auber and the ammo can. So far so good, but looks like I needed to read the directions on the AMNPS. I did read the Auber manual. tallbm, your assessment of the writers involved with that is spot on   Anyhow, looks like the Auber is doing well set at 180. I've been in and out looking at it as I've nothing better to do.. ya right. after settling in it looks like a +1/-2 swing. No autotune or otherwise. I simply set the temp to 180 in the single step mode and let it roll. at first it dropped -3 when cycling, but since then its been rock solid at +1/-2. I just can't stop laughing at the fact of a $200 controller running a smoker with an attachment that looks like a drunk hillbilly put it together. No offense to the drunk hillbillies, as I've been known to pull a cork a time or two myself
> 
> For what its worth, the 3' elbows and hose are all trial and error. I'm not fond of the look, so once I consider this a done deal, I'll clean up the connections between the elbows and the aluminum hose and paint it all hi temp grill black. Also, I used a 2-3/4 hole saw because I had one and said.... I can make it work. Oh boy did I have to grind the rest out so the elbow would fit. Besides, the air compressor needed to earn its keep.    I put three 3/8" holes in the end of the ammo can. Standard  5.56  can someone at work gave me a few of.  My only complaint is where the outlet is to run this.  If the chip loader and top vent were reversed it would be far better, but I run an extension cord to the pellet pooper so I'll just shut up and deal with it.
> 
> ...



Nice!!!

Yeah there are some minor tricks to helping the AMNPS run smoothly.

1. Microwave pellets for 1 min 25 sec, pull out of microwave mix around and rest for 2 min, microwave another 1 min 25 sec. This zaps the unforseen undetectable humidity from the pellets.

2. Light with a propane torch and ensure a flame is burning for 10 continuous minutes.

3. Tweak the airflow in your mailbox mod with more or less holes in the proper spots.

4.  Do not expect the use of only 100% cherry pellets to ever stay lit hahaha


That does it :)


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 12, 2021)

Cherry.... I've heard that, often.  I used Lumber Jack Apple/Cherry blend,  Still, looks like a bit more airflow won't hurt.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 12, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Cherry.... I've heard that, often.  I used Lumber Jack Apple/Cherry blend,  Still, looks like a bit more airflow won't hurt.



Yeah as long as something is mixed with cherry it seems to do fine.  I've also heard/read that if you use cherry dust it has no problem.  You can make dust by wetting pellets an then puff up then dry em and they crumble to dust.

I've had a little bit of trouble with 100% Maple as well but it's not nearly as bad as cherry.


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 13, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Nice!!!
> 
> Yeah there are some minor tricks to helping the AMNPS run smoothly.
> 
> ...



Back at it again while doing things around the house.  I used Lumberjack Apple blend pellets this time (60/40 Red Oak Apple mix according to their website) and I drilled two more 3/8 holes on the underside of the can about an inch or so in from the edge, spaced out close to the two lower holes on the side.... to say the least, way too much airflow.  Smoke! Smoke! Smoke! White Smoke in  compartment 01-24-1-L... oh stop... Navy flashback there.  I nuked the pellets far longer than I did yesterday, followed the instructions above for the minute 25 twice with the rest between. Lit with the map gas torch and let it burn for 10 minutes.  I only filled one leg of the maze as I figured that would be enough to tell me what is going on. I have the vent on top of the MES wide open, Auber is holding steady at 180 +1/-2.

Its been going for almost two hours now and I've been playing with different configurations of the holes. I blocked the bottom two off to start, and am now running on one hole, bottom right of the side opposite of the elbow. Prior to that I had that hole open and the lower left covered half way, smoke flow reduced but still not the TBS I'm looking for. Still smelled a touch bitter so here we are with the one hole. Gonna have a cocktail and let it settle down and see how this works out.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 13, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Back at it again while doing things around the house.  I used Lumberjack Apple blend pellets this time (60/40 Red Oak Apple mix according to their website) and I drilled two more 3/8 holes on the underside of the can about an inch or so in from the edge, spaced out close to the two lower holes on the side.... to say the least, way too much airflow.  Smoke! Smoke! Smoke! white smoke in  compartment 01-24-1-L... oh stop... Navy flashback there.  I nuked the pellets far longer than I did yesterday, followed the instructions above for the minute 25 twice with the rest between. Lit with the map gas torch and let it burn for 10 minutes.  I only filled one leg of the maze as I figured that would be enough to tell me what is going on. I have the vent on top of the MES wide open, Auber is holding steady at 180 +1/-2.
> 
> Its been going for almost two hours now and I've been playing with different configurations of the holes. I blocked the bottom two off to start, and am now running on one hole, bottom right of the side opposite of the elbow. Prior to that I had that hole open and the lower left covered half way, smoke flow reduced but still not the TBS I'm looking for. Still smelled a touch bitter so here we are with the one hole. Gonna have a cocktail and let it settle down and see how this works out.



So just a single 3/8 hole is all you are running in the bottom of the ammo can?


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 13, 2021)

Yep. This might take more tinkering than I might be willing to do.  Turned off the Auber and took the dog for a walk, still smoking on return.  opened the door long enough to get the temp probe out, went back to doing nothing. Took pic of the AMNPS and put in back in the ammo can, let it go for 10-15 minutes or so... still smoking.   Looking at the ash as compared to the black, I'm not doing something right.


----------



## zwiller (Nov 13, 2021)

No way that's enough air..  I have like 6 - 7/8" holes.


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 13, 2021)

zwiller said:


> No way that's enough air..  I have like 6 - 7/8" holes.


Can't argue. Just posting where I'm at,  but I'm with you.... No way.


----------



## Ringer (Nov 13, 2021)

Just to post an update I did fire mine up today after the Last round of mods.

The last thing I did was put 6 1/4 inch holes in the bottom of the ammo can and added a stack to the outside.

This fixed my tray going out. Last I checked it is still lit.

Here is the deal breaker for me though. It isn't enough smoke. Yes it's there and yes it's clean but it just seems like it's not enough. I may get a small tube to put in with the tray or I may just use the tube alone. It seems to produce a good amount of smoke and the taste is there.

Thanks to all who have contributed here.

TLDR: if you are using an ammo can attached directly to the mes, make sure the air inlet holes are on the bottom and the edges are well sealed. Even then, it's not alot of smoke. This may be perfectly acceptable to some folks.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 13, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Yep. This might take more tinkering than I might be willing to do.  Turned off the Auber and took the dog for a walk, still smoking on return.  opened the door long enough to get the temp probe out, went back to doing nothing. Took pic of the AMNPS and put in back in the ammo can, let it go for 10-15 minutes or so... still smoking.   Looking at the ash as compared to the black, I'm not doing something right.
> 
> View attachment 516194
> View attachment 516195


You may want to run the AMPNS full of pellets a time or two even if you don't plan to let it burn them all.  The extra pellets will block air as well.  I've never gotten too much smoke off 1 row.  

I recommend smoking some inexpensive boneless skinless chicken when it goes on sell (don't have to fight with skin if skinless) and see if the smoke production really is too heavy.  Sometimes some white smoke seems like it might be too heavy but is ok, especially if you have no great airflow to blow it away from the vent.  I see more smoke when I burn 2 rows in my ANPS vs 1 row.  Super thick smoke is just what you want to avoid :)

The fun part is you eat the results :D




Ringer said:


> Just to post an update I did fire mine up today after the Last round of mods.
> 
> The last thing I did was put 6 1/4 inch holes in the bottom of the ammo can and added a stack to the outside.
> 
> ...



Oh my friend I have the answer to your problem.  Burn 2 rows at once.  I use Pit Boss MCH blend and it is kind of weak alone.  I add more Hickory to it to help it out but on anything 5hrs or less using my enhanced blend there I burn 2 rows. 

Also don't worry if you put a full tray of that perfect smoke on pork butt, brisket, etc. you will have plenty of smoke flavor.

My lessons learned:

  2 rows if the cook is 5hrs or less and not using 100% hickory or 100% mesquite, they are powerful enough to not burn 2 rows.
1 whole tray puts great flavor if you burn it all up on a long smoke
Enhance any weaker blends you buy with more of the stronger or better flavor wood you have.  This is why I buy Lumberjack for the 100% wood and then add to blends or make my own blends :)
You can still use the tube but feel free to rock both ends of the AMNPS one time to learn what you do/don't like about that approach :)


----------



## Ringer (Nov 13, 2021)

That is a great solution 

 tallbm
 . It's putting out some good food now for sure.


----------



## tanglefoot (Nov 13, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Ask any questions you like about the Auber's. Their manual was written by a drunk 2nd grader so it can be hard to understand at times


YA NAILED THAT ONE!!!!


----------



## tallbm (Nov 14, 2021)

tanglefoot said:


> YA NAILED THAT ONE!!!!


Hahahah yeah it's wild.  The good thing is that once you figure out what to do, it's actually not that hard and it's copy down the 3 or so button presses and then rinse and repeat :)


----------



## Ringer (Nov 14, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Hahahah yeah it's wild.  The good thing is that once you figure out what to do, it's actually not that hard and it's copy down the 3 or so button presses and then rinse and repeat :)


This is part of the reason I went wifi. I do like monitoring the Cook remotely but the access to the settings seems much easier.


----------



## zwiller (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Even then, it's not alot of smoke. This may be perfectly acceptable to some folks.



Not sure you caught it but the tube puts out much more smoke than the tray.  Another option.  There are some fans of the tube.  It's well known to stay lit too.  Everyone has their own preference.  Same with how to light it.  I had to tinker a few times to get where I am.  Totally worth it than dumping chips every half hour.   



Ringer said:


> This is part of the reason I went wifi. I do like monitoring the Cook remotely but the access to the settings seems much easier.


EXACTLY the same here. 

You guys think the PID settings you use for yours will be the same for the wifi?  I have not researched this fully yet.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 15, 2021)

zwiller said:


> Not sure you caught it but the tube puts out much more smoke than the tray.  Another option.  There are some fans of the tube.  It's well known to stay lit too.  Everyone has their own preference.  Same with how to light it.  I had to tinker a few times to get where I am.  Totally worth it than dumping chips every half hour.
> 
> 
> EXACTLY the same here.
> ...


My guess is that they will be close.

Different PID's could have different algorithms for control but so far the non-Wifi Auber, the MyPIN PID I have used, and I think an InkBird posted at some point all had similar settings.

If Auber is truly designing and their PID's and having them manufactured then it would make sense that the control algorithm and parts stay the same to reduce cost since it is already done. The wifi parts and display pieces would likely be the things that are different. A good modular design would save cost all around allowing for reuse in a number of areas.

Feel free to ask the wifi Auber guys what their PID settings are and at least it will be out there in the world to search for :D


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 18, 2021)

So I revisited the ammo can yesterday. I rubbed some boneless skinless thighs and threw them on at 250 with some brats also.  Lit the maze with two full rows of the apple blend and off we went.  Opted for the original 3 hole configuration.  The smoke was constant and not overwhelming.  Really wasn't watching the clock, but I pulled the brats at 170 degrees and ate a few while the thighs continued cooking. I couldn't tell if the food was too smoky thanks to a healthy dose of Bombay and tonic, but I gave them both a sniff check this morning. Chicken didn't smell smoky at all and they were in there far longer than the brats, which did have a quite smoky scent to them. I'll eat one later with a clean palate to test.  Pulled the maze out of the ammo can and it had burned almost completely, leaving a trail of white ash.  I did notice it was still going when I hit the hay, but with the smoker turned off the smoke was moving out the vent at a much slower pace, so cold smoking may require a fan.  Looks like it's about done. Gonna try a few more cooks to test the smoke profile before doing some bacon next weekend. 

Also, the smoker had a bit of a time getting back up to 250 after I opened the door to remove the brats.  I'm going to try playing with the PID values to see if that can be fixed. I have zero experience with that but I guess it's another learning session.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 18, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> So I revisited the ammo can yesterday. I rubbed some boneless skinless thighs and threw them on at 250 with some brats also.  Lit the maze with two full rows of the apple blend and off we went.  Opted for the original 3 hole configuration.  The smoke was constant and not overwhelming.  Really wasn't watching the clock, but I pulled the brats at 170 degrees and ate a few while the thighs continued cooking. I couldn't tell if the food was too smoky thanks to a healthy dose of Bombay and tonic, but I gave them both a sniff check this morning. Chicken didn't smell smoky at all and they were in there far longer than the brats, which did have a quite smoky scent to them. I'll eat one later with a clean palate to test.  Pulled the maze out of the ammo can and it had burned almost completely, leaving a trail of white ash.  I did notice it was still going when I hit the hay, but with the smoker turned off the smoke was moving out the vent at a much slower pace, so cold smoking may require a fan.  Looks like it's about done. Gonna try a few more cooks to test the smoke profile before doing some bacon next weekend.
> 
> Also, the smoker had a bit of a time getting back up to 250 after I opened the door to remove the brats.  I'm going to try playing with the PID values to see if that can be fixed. I have zero experience with that but I guess it's another learning session.



Nice, sounds like your AMNPS is functioning well for you.  Now it seems like time to figure your preferred woods for smoke flavor type and heaviness. 

What pellets are you using?  
I often run Pit Boss Competition Blend (Maple/Cherry/Hickory) but alone it is mild.  I add 100% Hickory to it so that the ratio becomes about 65% Hickory then even parts Maple/Cherry.  This does the trick along with burning two rows on anything that smokes 5 hours or less.

For cold smoking let us know and we can discuss fan assisted options.  I use one and it fixed my stale cold smoke issues.  The nice thing is that I just unplug my MES and use the cord to plug my cold smoke fan contraption in and boom I'm good to go with my fan contraption and all my cold smoked stuff comes out amazing!

As for the PID values, the first one you want to mess with will be "P".  It is responsible for coming up to temp when you first start or you are way under your set temp.  
Try a value of like 7 or 3 if you are already around 7.
Next will come the value of "D".  This one is value that checks back a few seconds in time and compares your rate of temp change from now to a few seconds ago.  If at any time the rate has drastically changes it kicks in to try and save the day.   I believe other guys are using a value of like 200 for "D".

Report back on all of your PID values and I'm sure we can lend some suggestions and if you want to fiddle and play with it to dial it in I can definitely recommend a better approach to that (smoke a pork butt and full with settings throughout the day since it's a long smoke).


----------



## mr_whipple (Nov 18, 2021)

I've been using lumberjack pellets of late in the pellet pooper so that's whats on hand.  Apple blend (60/40 oak/apple) used for the last two runs.  I used to use the pit boss blend, but I noticed it was differed between sprawl mart and lowes. The Walmart version said maple cherry Hickory on the bag, Lowe's didn't. Now this was pre- 'rona and I couldn't get the comp blend anywhere once the 'rona went into full swing. Now it's back at Walmart and they're exactly the same as Lowe's with no identifying of the woods used.   Truth be told, I prefer a milder smoke so I might try dust in the tray also as I hear it's milder than straight pellets.  I'll keep trying different things to see what I like. 

As far as the fan goes, I've got a few ideas. I saved a bad voltage regulator from a piece of equipment at work as it has a nice stainless enclosure. I was thinking about a small dc fan with a battery / potentiometer setup. I have a few small slab batteries laying around so I'll tinker with that. As I've said before, the main goal for this mes is low temp smoking for the bacon and eventually sausages, snack sticks etc etc. as I use the pellet pooper for everything else.. Cold smoking will more than likely be the least used function as I figure, but ya never know.


----------



## tallbm (Nov 18, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> I've been using lumberjack pellets of late in the pellet pooper so that's whats on hand.  Apple blend (60/40 oak/apple) used for the last two runs.  I used to use the pit boss blend, but I noticed it was differed between sprawl mart and lowes. The Walmart version said maple cherry Hickory on the bag, Lowe's didn't. Now this was pre- 'rona and I couldn't get the comp blend anywhere once the 'rona went into full swing. Now it's back at Walmart and they're exactly the same as Lowe's with no identifying of the woods used.   Truth be told, I prefer a milder smoke so I might try dust in the tray also as I hear it's milder than straight pellets.  I'll keep trying different things to see what I like.
> 
> As far as the fan goes, I've got a few ideas. I saved a bad voltage regulator from a piece of equipment at work as it has a nice stainless enclosure. I was thinking about a small dc fan with a battery / potentiometer setup. I have a few small slab batteries laying around so I'll tinker with that. As I've said before, the main goal for this mes is low temp smoking for the bacon and eventually sausages, snack sticks etc etc. as I use the pellet pooper for everything else.. Cold smoking will more than likely be the least used function as I figure, but ya never know.



Here's my cold assist contraption.  It's  cardboard rolled into a "tube" around a tin can.  I cut into the side of the tube and attached a 12V computer van that I wired to a 12V plug.

I place over my MES vent hole and the fan blows up the tube causing draft to suck the cold smoke up and out of the smoker.  The fan never gets smoke in it to gum it up.  I got the idea from another member and turned it into this thing :)


----------



## Ringer (Dec 10, 2021)

Circling back to this, I did a rib roast tonight and it took around 5 hrs. I used the tube in the ammo cam and it stayed lit the entire time. Tube it is.


----------



## tallbm (Dec 10, 2021)

Ringer said:


> Circling back to this, I did a rib roast tonight and it took around 5 hrs. I used the tube in the ammo cam and it stayed lit the entire time. Tube it is.


Tube works with lesser oxygen so is more forgiving it seem.  Glad it works out! :)


----------



## southensmoker (Dec 26, 2021)

Here is my PID install in case any one is looking for info.  Did it a couple of years ago though.  http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/111924/my-pid-install


----------



## mr_whipple (Dec 26, 2021)

Tell you what... I've got the temps under control. But smoke generation is somethng else, and its starting to really tick me off.  Creosote is not my friend,


----------



## tallbm (Dec 26, 2021)

mr_whipple said:


> Tell you what... I've got the temps under control. But smoke generation is somethng else, and its starting to really tick me off.  Creosote is not my friend,


One of the posters a good while back put scotch brite metal scrub balls into his mailbox mod duct to catch creosote.  
If you end up tweeking your setup and want to try these in the duct you may get the good results catching creosote he reported:


----------

