# mushy pulled pork



## LaLaMatt (Dec 13, 2017)

Folks - did my 2nd ever pulled pork yesterday, and it came out worse then my 1st! Looking for some help as to why...

Here's the breakdown:
1st one: 4lb Picnic - removed skin, covered in mustard, then rub, then in fridge overnight. Put in smoker at 11am, wrapped in foil at 164F IT at 5pm, then I had to move it to the oven. I hadn't given myself enough time to cook it, and needed a higher temp from the oven to finish quick. Pulled it from oven at 6:50pm, IT was 195F - 5mins rest (all I could spare) and I pulled it. It wasn't easy pulling it, but the pork taste/consistency was fantastic. One of the best I've ever tasted - after a nervous last hour trying to get it done on time, I was thrilled with the result.

2nd one: yesterday, 5lb Boston Butt, removed almost all exterior fat, covered in mustard, then rub, then fridge overnight. Put in the smoker at 9am, wrapped in foil at 165F IT at 2pm. Removed from smoker at 4:30pm - 198F IT, wrapped in towel and placed on tray in oven. (Oven was off, I turned it on for 1 minute to get it low-warm, then off). Left for 2hrs, at 6:30pm I pulled it. It pulled really easy, completely fell apart, bone came out clean. A ton of juice came out. I poured out what juice was easy to pour out, skimmed the fat, then poured it back in and mixed it. Should I not have done that? The results are the pork is very mushy - it squelches if you spoon some out, and the flavor is not there. It tastes fine, just not nearly as good as the first one, the smoke taste is much milder and the spice from the rub is also much milder.

Really disappointed that I seem to have gone backwards, especially as the 2nd time round i'd planned much better and 'on paper' it seems to have been a better cook. Any ideas as to why??

thanks in advance,
Matt


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## smokinq13 (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm going to say pouring the juices back in was what cuased it to not be as good as the first. Pork butts and shoulders have a good bit of fat in them so you don't really have to try and save the drippings. BUT still save the drippings and freeze them! Fantastic for beans and other cooking! Also great for reheating the pulled pork as you wont lose the flavor as much as if you would just use water or apple juice.


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## noboundaries (Dec 13, 2017)

Mushy pulled pork means one thing: it was over-cooked. No where above do you say what chamber temp you were using, but you do say you are wrapping until the IT was 195F in the first one, 198F in the second one.  Given the fact a 5 lb butt was loaded at 9 AM, wrapped at 2 PM (5 hours), then removed at 4:30 PM (7.5 hours), you had to be smoking in the 275F range.  There's nothing wrong with that temp.  It works fine. 

Wrapping does speed the cooking process along because it steams the meat, kind of a form of braising (ie, cooking in liquid). That's why the bark is soft on wrapped butts. 

There's nothing wrong with adding the liquid back to the meat after it is pulled, especially if you've separated the fat.  Adding the jus back can put flavor back in the meat.  You can also add more rub, spices, and sugar to boost the flavor if it tastes flat, which can happen.     

So, how to have a better result. 
1. When you wrap, give the butt another dusting of rub.  Rub can slide off the meat with fat as it smokes.  The rub will go into the wrapping juices that you can use at the end of the smoke.   
2. Use IT as a guide, not a destination.  Part of the art of smoking is knowing how the meat should feel when it is done.  Use a toothpick, double pronged fork, heck, the probe on an instant read thermometer to check the resistance of the meat.  An underdone butt will resist you when you try to insert the probe.  An overdone, mushy butt, gives absolutely no resistance.  A butt that is done will give just a little resistance, as they say, like sliding a probe into room temperature butter.  Personally, I like mine not quite that done, but it takes experience to know how it should feel.  Probe right through the wrapping if you continue to wrap your butts.   
3.  Check your pork.  There are two types sold on the market: natural and enhanced.  Natural butts have nothing added.  Any flavor will come from you and the animal.  Natural butts can have pork flavor all over the map, from tasteless to delicious depending how the animal was raised.  Enhanced have been injected with salts and phosphates, and possible a little nitrite (curing salt).  It will say so on the label.  Personally, I prefer the enhanced butts for consistency, or I inject my own flavors in the natural ones. 
4. Check your seasonings. Pile them on.  Personally, I don't waste mustard on butts.  I spray with oil, pack on the rub, then spray with oil again. 
5. You can also try not wrapping the meat, which adds time to the smoke but seals the meat.  Allowing the bark to harden seals in the juices and flavors.  Don't use a lot of sugar on a butt you're not going to wrap.  The sugar will burn.    

A pork butt may be the most forgiving piece of meat on the planet when it comes to temps and preparation, but it can be ornery too.  Butts often taste better the second day.  Early on, I had some butts that had very little flavor coming off the smoker, and the next day it was much better.  With experience, you learn to make fantastic butts your sleep, literally. 

Keep working on that butt.  The next one will be better!


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## Bearcarver (Dec 13, 2017)

Hi Matt,
Good info above, and like "Noboundaries" said putting the Juices back is a good thing if it needs it, but you should remove the fat first.

Here's a Step by Step (Below) of one of my "Pulled Pork Butts", and it also shows what to do with the Juices saved:
*Pulled Boston Pork Butt *

Bear


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## chef jimmyj (Dec 14, 2017)

Going against the tide here...You trimmed the visible fat in both. The first was cooked and pulled as it came out of the oven. It was loaded with flavor. Butt #2 you did a better job with timing, pulled shy of done and the rest finished the cook. You then poured off the drippings and Removed That Fat, returning the Jus to the meat. This Butt was Tasteless compared to Picnic#1...WHAT WERE YOU EXPECTING!?!?:eek::D I get it, some folks like leaner meat and surface trimming is common. But, considering *Fat is 80% of the flavor,* meat 10% and additions 10%, you physically tossed the flavor you had and loved in Picnic#1, in the trash by removing residual rendered internal fat from Butt#2. This the reason so many complain their pulled pork is not as tasty as Uncle Bob's or from the local Q joint. Uncle Bob and the Q joint, who does not trim anything, is Smoking, Pulling and Serving that pig, Au Natural as the Great Pit Master intended it, not skimming the Jus and tossing 80% of the Pork Flavor in the trash.
Mushy Texture...Comparing the two cooks. The first was under cooked by pulling standards, the meat will be firmer. Cooking Pork to the 200+ IT and resting will breakdown a lot more connective tissue than cooking to an IT of 190-195. Butt#2 was cooked more. 
Next, Picnic Shoulders are internally leaner and have more compact muscle fibers with less connective tissue than the the more active muscles of the Butt portion of the shoulder. The largest  Picnic muscle is more similar to the leaner Ham muscles or Loin being dense and a lighter color. The muscles in the Butt are looser, with longer fibers and less dense for greater range of motion and activity. They are darker in color and contain more connective tissue. When broken down and pulled the meat of the Butt will be somewhat Stringier and Moister from the additional gelatin. The resulting mouth feel is that the Butt meat is mushier even cooked to the same IT as a Picnic...JJ


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## SmokinAl (Dec 14, 2017)

I have one thing to add.
Pull the pork with your hands & leave it in big pieces.
Don't use bear claws or forks.
This also allows you to pull out any fat you don't want in your finished product.
And the big chunks keep it from being mushy.
Al


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## sqwib (Dec 14, 2017)

I don't know Jimmy, There's plenty of fat in a butt after removing the fat cap, there's also that False Cap that no one mentions. He should have also gotten more flavor with the extra bark by trimming.

What I find odd is I have noticed butts are a bit firmer in texture than picnics, I thought it should be the other way around?

I think he did everything right, but the only thing I would do differently is tweak the drippings before adding back to the pork.

I de-fat the dripping because it gives PP a nasty, mushy, greasy taste.
Also I have found that picnics have a sweeter flavor than butts, thats why I mix the two when doing a PP

I have been doing what Al said, I finger pull large chunks and remove nasty bits, then it can be frozen and makes for a better product when reheated. Also by chunking, it gives me other options for serving.

Sound like its a preference thing and the OP may prefer pork cooked to slicing temps and not pulling temps.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 14, 2017)

Gotta agree with Sqwib on the plenty of fat inside a Butt.

However if you look at the Link I posted above, you'll see my whole method, and I never had a Dry Butt or a Mushy Butt.
I always save the juices & separate the fat by putting it in the Fridge for hours to overnight, for leftovers.
Below is what it looks like after separating:

Note: The Jelly that's in the bowl on the left turns to liquid when heated, and it has an Awesome Flavor.
The Orange stuff on the right I cut from the top when it separated. It has flavor, but not very good flavor. It is mostly kinda waxy & greasy
I would not want to eat the fat that floats to the top. The rest is Fantastic---"Liquid Gold".







So if you return the juices to the meat without removing the fat that turns into Waxy hard Fat, I could see it becoming mushy & not so great tasting.

Bear


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## sqwib (Dec 14, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> Note: The Jelly that's in the bowl on the left turns to liquid when heated, and it has an Awesome Flavor.
> The Orange stuff on the right I cut from the top when it separated. It has flavor, but not very good flavor. It is mostly kinda waxy & greasy
> I would not want to eat the fat that floats to the top. The rest is Fantastic---"Liquid Gold".
> View attachment 347447
> ...



YEP


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## LaLaMatt (Dec 14, 2017)

thanks for the input guys. To answer a couple of questions - cooking temp was 250F - the butt was a longer/thinner cut then the picnic, so i'm not sure if that accounts for the faster cooking time. Bear, I actually used your step-by-step as my guide - albeit with a smaller butt, and I speeded up the step with the juices, letting them sit for about 20mins, the fat rose to the top, and I spooned it off. Then I added the remaining juice back in. One interesting difference I hadn't thought off until someone mentioned it above - the pulling itself. The picnic I had to serve right away, so it was taken out at 195F IT, and pulled basically 5 minutes later - I used a fork, but because (I think) it hadn't had chance to rest, it was tough pulling, and the pieces were relatively large as pulled pork goes. With the butt, it had a two hour rest, and not only did it completely fall apart when I started pulling it, I used my newly purchased bear claws for the first time. Perhaps I shredded it too much?! Additionally, and too that point - when I pulled the picnic, there was still a number of large chunks of stringy fat inside the picnic, that I removed and tossed during the pull. With the butt, there wasn't these big chunks - or perhaps there was, but perhaps it all got shredded into the meat with my bear claws? Perhaps all that fat, too much fat, got mixed into the meat, suppressing some of the flavor?

I realize I should have also added some additional seasoning after I pulled it and realized the flavor wasn't there. I think for some reason I was thinking I shouldn't be doing that, and that all the flavor had to come from the smoke, initial rub, bark etc. and I was breaking some sort of rule by adding it after the cooking process. Silly really.

Anyhow, I had left overs yesterday, and actually find it tastes a bitter better after a day in the fridge (!?). For some reason the smokiness seemed more apparent to me. Interesting, the mushy pork had really clumped together - like it really seemed like hard fat was holding it all together.


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## Bearcarver (Dec 14, 2017)

LaLaMatt said:


> thanks for the input guys. To answer a couple of questions - cooking temp was 250F - the butt was a longer/thinner cut then the picnic, so i'm not sure if that accounts for the faster cooking time. Bear, I actually used your step-by-step as my guide - albeit with a smaller butt, and I speeded up the step with the juices, letting them sit for about 20mins, the fat rose to the top, and I spooned it off. Then I added the remaining juice back in. One interesting difference I hadn't thought off until someone mentioned it above - the pulling itself. The picnic I had to serve right away, so it was taken out at 195F IT, and pulled basically 5 minutes later - I used a fork, but because (I think) it hadn't had chance to rest, it was tough pulling, and the pieces were relatively large as pulled pork goes. With the butt, it had a two hour rest, and not only did it completely fall apart when I started pulling it, I used my newly purchased bear claws for the first time. Perhaps I shredded it too much?! Additionally, and too that point - when I pulled the picnic, there was still a number of large chunks of stringy fat inside the picnic, that I removed and tossed during the pull. With the butt, there wasn't these big chunks - or perhaps there was, but perhaps it all got shredded into the meat with my bear claws? Perhaps all that fat, too much fat, got mixed into the meat, suppressing some of the flavor?
> 
> I realize I should have also added some additional seasoning after I pulled it and realized the flavor wasn't there. I think for some reason I was thinking I shouldn't be doing that, and that all the flavor had to come from the smoke, initial rub, bark etc. and I was breaking some sort of rule by adding it after the cooking process. Silly really.
> 
> Anyhow, I had left overs yesterday, and actually find it tastes a bitter better after a day in the fridge (!?). For some reason the smokiness seemed more apparent to me. Interesting, the mushy pork had really clumped together - like it really seemed like hard fat was holding it all together.








Sometimes the reason it tastes better the next day, is while you were smoking you got accustomed to the Smoke---On your clothes, on your skin & inside your nose, so the meat doesn't seem Smoky.

Then the next day the only smoke you come in contact with is on the meat.

Happens with Bacon too.

Bear


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## chilerelleno (Dec 14, 2017)

This thread is a prime example of why I like this website.

Matt, you asked a few questions and got prompt replies with as much prime information as you can handle.
You got great answers to your questions and more, and from multiple points of view.
And if you take all this and run with it your Pulled Pork cooks should improve greatly.
Experiment form cook to cook until you know what you prefer.

Outstanding, several of the replies got LIKES from me for the quality of the info and my agreement with them.

I double or even triple rub for thick bark.
I don't trim fat off Butts/Shoulders, but do pick some bits of fat/tendon or etc out as I pull.
Different cuts of meat for PP are...  Different.
I do skim fat off Au Jus.
I cook to the median of average IT and then start going by Probe Tenderness.
Sometimes I crutch due to time, but I prefer not to, if I do I unwrap and harden that Bark again before finishing.
I don't use Claws, sometimes I use a large serving fork to pull pieces off and simply crush them.
I find MANY things are much better the next day, it is chemistry and sometimes it takes time.
BBQ, Chile, Chowder, Stew, Casseroles and more, it's all in letting the flavors meld together.


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## JckDanls 07 (Dec 14, 2017)

ok..  so in reading all these fantastic reply's I've not seen anybody ask what thermometer you are using to take your readings with ... and are your therms calibrated (checked for accuracy in boiling water) ...


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## LaLaMatt (Dec 15, 2017)

therm is a thermpro-12 - which I boil tested and is good. It doesn't hold its connection to the receiver for more than 10 minutes, but that's another story (and Itronic's customer service have been 5-star in working with me on that). 

Ok, so I think next time i'm going to lather on a couple of coats of rub instead of just one, not use my bear claws and look for chunks of fat to remove when I pull. And then potentially not add the jus back in, or just a bit, depending on how the results are. I may also go back to the picnic cut. Terrific - thanks to everyone! Now, just got to get through this last 2lbs of pork before I can do the next one!


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## smokinq13 (Dec 22, 2017)

bearcarver said:


> Sometimes the reason it tastes better the next day, is while you were smoking you got accustomed to the Smoke---On your clothes, on your skin & inside your nose, so the meat doesn't seem Smoky.
> 
> Then the next day the only smoke you come in contact with is on the meat.
> 
> ...


I 100% agree with that statement... i have this happen to me every time I'm smoking meat for a party/group, people will be saying its the best ribs, PP or whatever i made and when i taste it, its nothing near as good as others i had. Best thing to do is when letting the meat rest, grab a quick shower to get that out of your system.. if you can.


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