# traeger fails.



## susieqz (Dec 12, 2014)

i'm not reviewing a specific model. i'm reviewing the company.

i'm sure some people have better experiences with them than i did, but this is what happened to me.

i got their junior model the last week of june. it stopped working after 2 hours. the control box n the screw thing stopped working.

i called them asking for a replacement. they said i had to fix it myself, with tools i didn't have n  skills i didn't have. i tried anyway,

 they wouldn't send a new box. then i got angry. i told visa to stop payment.

i emailed them to tell them they wouldn't get paid n to come get the damn thing.

well, then they decided to send a new part.

i don't think i should have to threaten to get what i pay for. the law is on my side. any product sold must be workable, period. they know this but tried to screw me to save money.

this was enow to show these people are crooks but there's more. the new box they sent was missing the wire that runs from the control to the thermometer. i had to use parts from 2 units to get 1 working unit.

so, trager fails on both quality control n customer service. i asked nothing i wasn't entitled to by law.

there's still more. traeger says using any pellets than theirs voids the warranty.  all pellets work the same, so this is stupid. a marketing ploy. i would have used their pellets tho. the price is ok. but, i've bot cheaper pellets n more expensive pellets. all give me more smoke taste than traeger.

right now the smoker is working n gives good results as long as i don't use traeger pellets, but i bet it dies before i get my money's worth.


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## welshrarebit (Dec 13, 2014)

This is why I chose a WSM over a traeger! I know my weber will work perfectly for the next thirty years... I hope I'm still around then! ;)


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## nedtorious (Dec 13, 2014)

Wow, I'm sorry about the problems you are having these problems, but I must say I'm on my 2nd Traeger , and I've never had any problems other than replacing the hot rods. The problem you are describing should definitely be covered by warranty!  I keep hearing these stories of bad customer service from Traeger, hopefully they will get this turned around soon! I completely agree with you on Traeger pellets, there are much better brands out there. Good Luck


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

ned, i'm glad you have no trouble with these people. i wonder if you got yours when they were still made here?

please tell me how long yours lasted before you needed a replacement.  i'll have to save up.  .this thing cost over $400 n i can't

afford this kind of money often.


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## nedtorious (Dec 13, 2014)

Susie both Traegers that I have owned were made overseas, I believe. It was years before I had to replace any parts. $400 for a piece of equipment that doesn't work as advertised is ridiculous. If I were you I would be very upset as well.  If I might offer a suggestion, I would look locally and see if there is a hardware store that sales traegers, maybe they would be of more help to you. From what I've heard traeger customer service simply isn't what it use to be unfortunately.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

thanks, ned.  i wish you could  be more exact about the number of years tho.

i'm looking at other brands. most are too big for me n most run $600-$800.

i love the pellet thing too much to switch. i smoke every week because it's so easy.

using charcoal is a big hassle.


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## timberjet (Dec 13, 2014)

Susieqz I beg to differ on charcoal being a hassle. Light it and forget it if you have a well designed smoker. You still have to clean a pellet grill out just like a pellet stove right? Or it will fail right? I have several friends with that junior model and this has been an issue with all of them. Most recently one of my buddies got the company to send him the whole unit to replace. Come to find out it was one small part that had failed. Bad business if you ask me.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

timber, what charcoal smoker is light n forget?

if i could do that, i'd get one.

i had a $30 kmart thing i used once, then tossed.

i had to add charcoal n chips every two seconds for hours on end.


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## geerock (Dec 13, 2014)

Traeger hasn't been made in the US since 2007 or early 2008.  There are all kinds of pellet grills out there now that beat the hell out of Traeger.  Lowes carries the Chargriller pellet smoker at a great price and its bigger thatn your little Tex.  Now I happen to own a Traeger so I'm not knocking them, but mine is USA made and all I have had to do to mine is change out couple hot rods and just this past spring I had to change out to a new controller.  But if their customer service is that bad and their quality is questionable I'd send that sucker back NOW.  If this is the treatment you get now, imagine how they are going to be after you've owned it for a while and need some help.  Dispute the charge, and tell Traeger to come and get the unit, and buy some quality and service.  GMG, MAK, Yoder, and RecTec all bear looking into.  Theres a reason why Traeger has lost so much market share in the last few years.


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## timberjet (Dec 13, 2014)

susieqz said:


> timber, what charcoal smoker is light n forget?
> 
> if i could do that, i'd get one.
> 
> ...


Weber Smokey Mountain. Team that up with A Weber one touch gold kettle grill and you have everything you could ever want. I smoke on my kettle more than any other smoker I have for daily meals. For big stuff or lots of stuff the smokey mountain is king. Works perfectly right out of the box. The best customer service in the industry and 10 years of warranty. Plus you can still buy parts for almost every grill they ever made. I have a 30 year old Weber Genesis that works like the day dad bought it. I also built myself a UDS that will smoke at 225 degrees for 15 or more hours without ever opening the lid. The WSM will do that too.http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/newsearch?search=WSM


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## welshrarebit (Dec 13, 2014)

susieqz said:


> timber, what charcoal smoker is light n forget?
> if i could do that, i'd get one.
> i had a $30 kmart thing i used once, then tossed.
> 
> i had to add charcoal n chips every two seconds for hours on end.



The last time I fired up my WSM I was smoking a turkey at 280 degrees. Well my wife gave me a list of stuff she wanted me to do. So, I'm running around town for two hours and I get home worried about not being there for a couple of hours and I check the temp and its humming along at 279 degrees!!!


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## timberjet (Dec 13, 2014)

You can't beat the flavor that comes from a real wood experience. Pellets just don't cut it for me. Now there are smoke generating devices you can put in there to get real smoked food but they do take up space. I don't know the square inches of food space on that grill but I would bet you could get the same or more from the smallest WSM they have.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

thank you gee. especially for the names of better  pellet smokers. too late for me to send it back. that all happened in july n i released the visa funds after they sent  a new control  box.

i wish i found this site back then.

they never sent the postage to  return the old unit, so i have it n hope to use parts from one to keep the other going. i still don't believe they expected me to sand down the screw thing to make a new unit work. i expect no help in the future. i'll learn to be a mechanic.

timber, i'll look into weber.  i had no idea that there was a charcoal smoker that would hold 225 for 15 hours with one loading. i smoke everything at 225.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

i'm not denying real wood is better. i've had wood smoked food with no pellets or charcoal involved, just wood.

nothing is better, if you have a big brick smoker..


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## bear55 (Dec 13, 2014)

I own a Rec Tec and I am 100% happy with the unit and the service.  What company gives you a 24 hour service number?  Well Rec Tec does, you can reach out and talk to a company person anytime of the day or night.   I lost my heat rod and was able to complete my cook and would have never knew that unless they answered their phone on Sunday.  Replacing the heat rod was a piece of cake and it cost me nothing.  My friend has the same Traeger you have and he is not satisfied either.


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## timberjet (Dec 13, 2014)

Oh yes. You could make yourself A UDS or a mini too with your newfound mechanicing skills. haha.... My friend had the same experience. they don't want the old parts back on his either I guess. He still has the whole mechanism. I have heard good things about those rec tech units and the smoke daddy ones too. Anyway good luck and happy smoking.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

bear, you are the forth person who mentioned a heat rod failing.

can someone please tell me what it is? where it is? what does it look like?

if this is the main failure point in pellet grills i need to know.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

hey, timber. that smoke daddy thingie looks cool. iwonder if i could hook it up to this traeger n cold smoke. i'd love to try cold smoking for days at a time.


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## geerock (Dec 13, 2014)

The hot rod is a unit that is in the pellet pot in the center bottom of your cooking chamber.  As the auger (you call it the screw thing) pushes pellets into the pot the hot rod heats up to get the pellets going.  Because of the intense heat of the pellet pot hot rods will fail.... on all pellet cookers.
As for additional smoke, I use an AMAZN  tube smoker to get additional smoke flavor and to cold smoke.  Works great.  But a brother of mine uses a Smoke Daddy to add extra smoke to his pellet muncher.  The nice thing is both of them use pellets to produce smoke.  With the AMAZN you just light it and place it inside on a rack.  With a Smoke Daddy smoke generator you just need to drill one hole in your traeger to hook it up. I like the AMAZN as its cheaper, easier to use on other grills and smokers, and smokes for a lot longer.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

thanks, gee. so the rod is under the fire pot. so, when it fails i'll have to pay  money to traeger to get a new  one. i hate that.

i'll do it tho, to keep the machine running. i was hoping it was in the control box, cause i got the old one for spares.

i need to keep this running as long as i can. those nicer ones are pricey.

one thing about evil traeger. they forced me to learn to disassemble the box so now i can probably do the work.


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## geerock (Dec 13, 2014)

Actually the hot rod goes thru the side of the firepot and is held by one screw.  Very easy to swap out.  And you don't need to order from Traeger.  There are only a few hot rod sizes that are used by all pellet cookers.  Theres a few American made ones that seem to last longer and can be had for about 25 to 30 bucks.


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## nedtorious (Dec 13, 2014)

The hot rod is very easy to replace, but technically you don't need it. You can light the pellets in the fire pot with a torch, then turn on the grill, it works just fine, I've done this a few times.


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

gee, you are a doll. i don't wanna buy from traeger. period.

ned, i don't understand. i get if you torch some pellets they burn, but over several hours, how do you keep them burning?


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## nedtorious (Dec 13, 2014)

The auger will bring new pellets to the fire pot to keep the fire going. All the hot rod does is start the original fire. I love my pellet grills, but I think if I had to do it over, I would have bought a Weber Smokey Mountain or a Big Green Egg. The next smoker I get will defiantly be a stick burner!


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## susieqz (Dec 13, 2014)

thanks ned. i've memorized that. 

i've never tried those others, but it does make sense that actual  hunks of real wood would give a better smoke taste.

i'm into pellets only because i'm lazy.

today i just walked outside n started it, waited 2 minutes n set the heat. went inside n had my coffee, then went back out to set ribs on the grate.

other than that, i checked every couple of hours til i ate.

peeling taters took more time than that.

lazy.

what i don't get about webers is the fire is right in the middle. i'd think an offset firebox would be better, but what do i know..


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## remmy700p (Dec 15, 2014)

It just seems wrong to have a smoker require an electrical plug to work. That's just me.


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## timberjet (Dec 15, 2014)

baskets.jpg



__ timberjet
__ Nov 30, 2014






this is my setup. drop a couple hot coals in each side. Smoke on.


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## susieqz (Dec 15, 2014)

how do you guys regulate heat?


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## timberjet (Dec 15, 2014)

This is how we do. Love the Performer.

 This is how you regulate the heat. It is really as simple as moving one lever to open and close the damper to increase or decrease airflow. The same lever cleans the ashes out each time you move it. Can't get more easy than that.


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## jirodriguez (Dec 15, 2014)

If you get tired of the Traeger definitely check out the 22.5" WSM. In summertime I can run over 22 hrs. at 240-250° on one bag of charcoal (I use Kingsford Blue Bag), in winter I wrap it in a welding blanket and can run for about 18 hrs. on the same 20 lb. load.

I start all my briskets and pork butts around midnight, then go to bed for 6 hrs., then check them and add wood in the AM.


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## susieqz (Dec 15, 2014)

timber, that was fun to watch, but it shows it's more art than  science.

i don't think you can learn  that from books. i bet you gotta apprentice yourself to an experienced smoker.

that's too hard for people like me.


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## timberjet (Dec 15, 2014)

No absolutely not. If you can read a thermometer and light a bic lighter..... In time you may want to try new things. Especially when your pellet pooper poops out.


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## susieqz (Dec 15, 2014)

oh, i won't get another pellet one. i'd like to use real wood. if i was rich, i'd get a brick smoker. i tasted food from one n i doubt anything else can compare.

i'll settle for anything that burns real wood that i personally can get to keep a temp for a long time.

dave told me he smokes everything under 210. that seems the way to go. i've been smoking everything  at 225 due to the limitations of this unit.


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## buttburner (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't know why anyone would cook at 210 unless its sausage or jerky etc

If you were to do something big like a pork butt or a brisket you could  be there for days

try cooking at 275-300

the results are the same and you get it done a LOT faster!!!


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## daveomak (Dec 16, 2014)

ButtBurner said:


> I don't know why anyone would cook at 210 unless its sausage or jerky etc
> 
> If you were to do something big like a pork butt or a brisket you could  be there for days
> 
> ...




You should try it....   Condemning a smoking method, on a forum where you are "possibly" trying to learn new techniques, is weird....   

I just cooked a standing rib roast at 180 deg. F....   Cooking at 275-300 is what a kitchen cook does....  Soooooo, step out of the kitchen into the smoking meat section....













PR 12-7-14 3.JPG



__ daveomak
__ Dec 15, 2014







I smoke sausage at 140....  no fat out, no dry as sawdust sticks...   works for me, but then I experimented until I found a method that makes great smoked products...


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## buttburner (Dec 16, 2014)

100_2422.jpg



__ buttburner
__ Dec 16, 2014


















IMG_0685.JPG



__ buttburner
__ Dec 16, 2014






I have tried it.

I find it a waste of time. I am glad it works for you, this works for me

Brisket at 275f

its known as the Hot and Fast method, very accepted in BBQ circles.


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## geerock (Dec 16, 2014)

Yeah, I've tried it too, but after 20 something years of smoking meats I tend to get over the 250 mark for almost everything.....and I'm pretty sure I'm doing it outside on my smoker and not in the kitchen. For some reason the suggested default smoking temp seems to be 225, until now where its below 210?  No loss of taste or tenderness cooking above 250.  All you have to gain is time.  And BTW, above 250 is not hot and fast just because its hotter and faster than others cook.  Lets put it this way..... is someone smoking hot and fast at 225 just because someone else is smoking at 190?  No one I know smokes under 225 and most go at it around 250 to 275 and there are several competition teams in the area that never smoke under 275.  Now Dave is a well respected and knowledgeable member here and he enjoys the real slow method.  Works for him.  But there are others that use a faster method and instead of 2 1/2 hours per pound can get done in an hour or hour and a half.... with excellent results too.  I wasn't aware that smoking at a higher temp meant we were a kitchen cook.  I thought the use of smoke and using wood was the basis of getting good bbq. 
Susieq.... there are lots of different ways to get great results.  Find what works for you.  But don't get stuck into absolute set in stone rules.  Just find your own method and you'll be smoking like a pro in no time.  All the best to everyone.


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## timberjet (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't see how you can get thin blue quality smoke at 275-300. I can not achieve anything but billowing white smoke with my Weber or UDS at the higher temps. I use real wood and charcoal, which is real wood too. I go with Dave on this one for sure. Suze if you want to be lazy you probably don't want a stick burner. You are going to the total opposite end of the spectrum there. Brick, steel, whatever material the smoker is made from makes no difference in flavor. It is all in how you cook stuff. What temp you cook at, what temp you take the meat to, what type of smoke you have and the time it took to get there all have an impact on what you are trying to achieve. The person that had that brick pit just did it right. You can get great results on whatever you are using for a smoker. Just know that A well designed and efficient smoker is easier to use and that is what it is all about. To each his or her own. There is a guy here where I live that direct grills everything he does right over a searing hot open flame. I have had his meat and you want to talk about tough. I don't know how he has repeat customers. Every time i am in there they are apologizing for something. Low and slow baby.


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## remmy700p (Dec 16, 2014)

timberjet said:


> I don't see how you can get thin blue quality smoke at 275-300. I can not achieve anything but billowing white smoke with my Weber or UDS at the higher temps. I use real wood and charcoal, which is real wood too.


It's all about the volume of fuel relative to the size of the cook chamber. All things being equal, a small properly combusting fire (i.e. as evidenced by "TBS") will generate a certain amount of heat. A larger fire (more fuel) combusting with the *same* efficiency in the *same* smoker will generate *more* heat. The exhaust gas' visual characteristics (i.e. the "TBS") are the same, but the temps are higher. Billowing white smoke is simply a visual cue that the fire is smouldering, i.e. not combusting properly and releasing water vapor into the gas stream. This environment is perfect for the formation of creosote on the inside of the pit -- and on your proteins.


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## timberjet (Dec 16, 2014)

Remmy700P said:


> It's all about the volume of fuel relative to the size of the cook chamber. All things being equal, a small properly combusting fire (i.e. as evidenced by "TBS") will generate a certain amount of heat. A larger fire (more fuel) combusting with the *same* efficiency in the *same* smoker will generate *more* heat. The exhaust gas' visual characteristics (i.e. the "TBS") are the same, but the temps are higher. Billowing white smoke is simply a visual cue that the fire is smouldering, i.e. not combusting properly and releasing water vapor into the gas stream. This environment is perfect for the formation of creosote on the inside of the pit -- and on your proteins.


Word.... to tell you the truth I think the last time I tried a hot and fast cook I had some greenish wood. I still swear by low and slow unless it is chicken.


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## timberjet (Dec 16, 2014)

By the way, sorry for hijacking the heck out of your thread suze!


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## susieqz (Dec 16, 2014)

well, i tried a chicken at those high temps. i got little smoke taste. it was the same as done in the oven.

i like a heavier smoke taste than most people. i get that best with low temp cooking over longer periods.

this may apply only to pellet smokers. i suspect not, but i have no experience with other smokers.


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## buttburner (Dec 16, 2014)

you are correct. Pellet cookers are known for the lack of smoke. That's why a lot of people use smoke generators with them


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## susieqz (Dec 16, 2014)

sigh. one more reason to hate treager.

i need a smoker that burns chunks, but uses electricity or gas. i hate moving parts anyway.


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## buttburner (Dec 16, 2014)

I would not give up on it

lots of people love them and have great results.

just do some research on it, I am sure you will find out something that will work for your pit!!

lots of info out there


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## geerock (Dec 16, 2014)

susieqz said:


> well, i tried a chicken at those high temps. i got little smoke taste. it was the same as done in the oven.
> 
> i like a heavier smoke taste than most people. i get that best with low temp cooking over longer periods.
> 
> this may apply only to pellet smokers. i suspect not, but i have no experience with other smokers.


Actually you are correct....it is am issue with pellet cookers.  Because of the efficiency of the pellets in producing heat, pellet eaters certainly don't produce as much smoke as other cookers, especially at higher heats.  As discussed earlier, it is the reason why many folks, including myself, use a smoke generator for added flavor.

Now I wish someone would tell me what hot and fast temps are and what low and slow temps are, because as I see these discussions, if someone is smoking at 225 and someone else is smoking a 200 then the 225 guy must be hot and fast (and lazy)?  Never in the bbq community has 250 to 265 been considerd hot and fast....just hotter and faster than 225.  I've cooked on them all, started with block pits and then to horizontal stick burners and if you know how to maintain the efficiency of your burn you'll get any type of smoke you like.  There is nothing wrong with laying on a little heavier smoke at the beginning of the cook to get a smokier flavor if you are smoking at high heat or want to add more smoke flavor to your chicken.  But sooner or later you are going to have to get the temp up for poultry to crisp the skin or unless you  like it rubbery, or want to finish it in the oven. In which case you'll be a "kitchen cook" again.  (only kidding guys).

Also, one last thing.... if you are using Traeger pellets, they suck for smoke flavor.  Probably the worst in the business.  Lots of others out there that make a world of difference.  I happen to use BBQ Delite and have never looked back.  They have an oak base, which I have always like for a smoking wood, and then have another wood combined with it.  Very efficient, very flavorful, and when I add them to the AMAZN smoke tube and pop that in the pellet cooker it gives me just about exactly the smoke flavor I like.


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## remmy700p (Dec 16, 2014)

Yeah... it's one of those arguments that has no conclusion. It's too subjective. For instance, my 2 cents:

- Any smoking protocol under 140F is "cold smoking".

- Between 140F and 225F is dangerous because it allows proteins to stay too long in the bacteria growth zone.

- Between 225F and 300F is "low and slow".

- Anything over 300F is "hot and fast".


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## susieqz (Dec 16, 2014)

remmy, are you saying that only cured meats can be cooked under 225?


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## remmy700p (Dec 16, 2014)

Nope. Not what I said at all. Again, those are just my "off the cuff" generalizations about time and temp. Fish is different than beef, which is different than pork, etc and the scales change with each. The protein's starting temperature, thickness, whether there is fat running through the cut or it's very lean, etc all play a role in the time/temp/safety calculus.

Food safety is a huge chunk of common sense. One thing I'd love to see with the electronic temperature probes (Maverick, etc) is an on-device (and downloadable) time/internal-temp chart. It'd be another great tool to properly manage food safety.


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## buttburner (Dec 16, 2014)

Remmy is right on with his comments

In the groups I am in 275 is considered the low of the "Hot and Fast" range, but its the same general idea.

Other than that I concur completely


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## daveomak (Dec 16, 2014)

Well.......  I guess it's good to have more than one definition for different stages of smoking temperatures....   Below are definitions that Marianski has noted...  Steven Marianski...  you have maybe heard of him......

Don't get teed at me.... they are his definitions....   Just thought a different point of view was appropriate here.....


==============
Cold Smoking

Cold smoking at 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1-14 days, applying thin smoke with occasional breaks in between, is one of the oldest preservation methods. We cannot produce cold smoke if the outside temperature is 90° F (32° C), unless we can cool it down, which is what some industrial smokers do. Cold smoking is a drying process whose purpose is to remove moisture thus preserving a product. 

You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C). Cold smoking assures us of total smoke penetration inside of the meat. The loss of moisture also is uniform in all areas and the total weight loss falls within 5-20% depending largely on the smoking time. Cold smoking is not a continuous process, it is stopped (no smoke) a few times to allow fresh air into the smoker. 


======================
Warm Smoking

Continuous smoking at 73-104° F (23-40° C), from 4-48 hours depending on the diameter of the meat, humidity 80%, and medium smoke. The weight loss varies between 2-10%, with the difference being largely dependent on the time spent smoking. The surface of the product becomes quite dry but the inside remains raw. Because of the warm smoke, the product receives more smoke in its outside layers. This dry second skin helps increase shelf life, as well as prevent the loss of its natural juices. The color ranges from yellow to brown and has a little shine due to some fat moving outwards. 

Warm smoke temperatures lie within the The Danger Zone (40-140° F, 5-60° C), which is the range of temperatures where all bacteria grow very fast. We may say that most bacteria love temperatures close to our body temperature, which is 36.6° C (98.6° F). Optimum growing conditions for infamous Clostridium botulinum are 78-95° F, (26-35° C) but it will still grow at 45° C (113° F). At those temperatures the only protection we have is the sodium nitrite (Cure #1 or 2) which should be added to smoked meats. As explained later in the book, the reason for using cures (nitrite) is not only to eliminate the risk of food poisoning (Clostridium botulinum) but to obtain the desired color, achieve better flavor and prevent the rancidity of fats. 


===================
Hot Smoking

Hot smoking is the most common method of smoking. Continuous smoking at 105-140° F (41-60° C), 0.5-2 hours, 5-12% weight loss, heavy smoke. This is not recommended for large pieces of meat that are expected to be stored for a long time. Although it is the fastest method, there is not enough time for adequate smoke penetration. This results in higher moisture content, reducing the product’s shelf life. This type of smoking can be divided into three separate phases:
1.Drying out the surface of the meat for 10-40 min at 112-130° F (45-55° C), some very light smoke is acceptable, although not necessary. Besides drying out the surface of the meat, the temperature speeds up nitrite curing. Keep in mind that the draft controls must be fully opened to eliminate any moisture residing inside of the smoker. Applying smoke at temperatures higher than 130-140° F (54-60° C) will prematurely dry out the casings on the surface of the meat and will create a barrier to smoke penetration. 
2.This is the proper smoking stage at 112-140° F (45-60° C) for 30-90 min, using medium to heavy smoke. The color becomes a light yellow to dark brown with a shade of red. In this state, the natural casings become strong and fit snugly on the sausages. 
3.Baking the sausage at 140-176° F (60-80° C) for about 10-20 min. Temperatures as high as 194° F (90° C) are permitted for a short period of time. Proteins are denatured in the outside layers of the product, but the inside remains raw with temperatures reaching only 104° F (40° C). Natural casings fit very snugly, become shiny, and develop a few wrinkles. This is a welcomed scenario; lots of smoked products are subsequently poached. Acting like a barrier, the drier and stronger casings prevent the loss of juices. This type of cooking (poaching) is more economical to baking (less weight loss).


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## buttburner (Dec 16, 2014)

this is about smoking sausages which I am totally in agreement with.

I am sorry, I thought we were talking about meats like pork butt, brisket, chicken etc.


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## susieqz (Dec 16, 2014)




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## buttburner (Dec 16, 2014)

well if you dont want to believe me, check out Jeff Phillips (the owner of this website) own recipes.

Take note of the temps he is cooking at.

Here is an example

http://www.smoking-meat.com/tag/pulled-pork


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## daveomak (Dec 16, 2014)

I believe you....  You cook food with smoke, at very high temps...


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## buttburner (Dec 17, 2014)

DaveOmak said:


> I believe you.... You cook food with smoke, at very high temps...


my last post was in response to suzyq's last post, then she deleted it

your post referred to smoking sausages.


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## daveomak (Dec 17, 2014)

Hey Brian.....    Those temps are for whole muscle meats too....  

You seem to be convinced that whole muscle meats need to be cooked hot and fast....   Taking precautions for bacterial growth, low and slow is good, very good...


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## buttburner (Dec 17, 2014)

I never said they NEED to be cooked hot and fast.

I said that I cook them hot and fast (most of the time)

the reference you posted refers to cooking sausage.


DaveOmak said:


> Hey Brian..... Those temps are for whole muscle meats too....
> 
> You seem to be convinced that whole muscle meats need to be cooked hot and fast.... Taking precautions for bacterial growth, low and slow is good, very good...


no I never said it NEEDS to be cooked hot and fast.

I merely suggested that she try it.

And again, your reference is about smoking sausages.


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## daveomak (Dec 17, 2014)

Well, according to Marianski, you are Barbecuing.... 190-300......     Smoking is done with temps below 140.....   

Barbecuing

There is a significant difference between smoking, barbecuing, and grilling. When grilling, you quickly seal in the juices from the piece you are cooking. Grilling takes minutes. Smoking takes hours, sometimes even days. Don’t be fooled by the common misconception that by throwing some wet wood chips over hot coals you can fully smoke your meat. At best you can only add some flavor on the outside because the moment the outside surface of the meat becomes dry and cooked, a significant barrier exists that prevents smoke penetration. A properly smoked piece of meat has to be thoroughly smoked on the outside and everywhere inside. Only prolonged cold smoking will achieve that result. Smoking when grilling is no better than pumping liquid smoke into it and claiming that the product is smoked now. Let’s unravel some of the mystery. All these methods are different from each other, especially smoking and grilling. The main factor separating them is temperature.


Smoking – very low heat

52° – 140° F(12° - 60° C)      1 hr to 2 weeks, depending on temperature


Barbecuing – low heat           190° – 300° F (93° - 150° C)  low and slow, few hours


Grilling – high heat                 400-550° F (232-288° C)       hot and fast, minutes


The purpose of grilling is to char the surface of the meat and seal in the juices by creating a smoky caramelized crust. By the same token a barrier is erected which prevents smoke from flowing inside. The meat may have a somewhat smoky flavor on the outside but due to a short cooking time it was never really smoked. Most grilling is performed on gas powered units.

Barbecuing is a long, slow, indirect, low-heat method that uses charcoal or wood pieces to smoke-cook the meat. The best definition is that barbecuing is cooking with smoke. It is ideally suited for large pieces of meat such as butts, ribs or whole pigs. The temperature range of 190° - 300° F (88° - 150° C) is still too high for smoking sausages as the fat will melt away through the casings making them greasy. The baked sausage will taste like bread crumbs. 

Barbecue is a social affair, people gather to gossip, drink, have fun and to eat the moment the meats are cooked. On the other hand, traditionally smoked meats are usually eaten cold at a later date. As barbecue brings people together, it is not surprising that everybody loves the event. Although barbecue is popular in many countries, nobody does it better than Americans. There, barbecue is a part of tradition like American jazz. It has become the art in itself with constant cookouts and championships all over the country. Although barbecued meats can be placed directly on the screen and cooked, in many cases they are first marinated. Marinades consist of many flavoring ingredients such as vinegar, lemon juice, and spices whereas traditional curing basically contains only water, salt and nitrite, sometimes sugar is added as well. To make great barbecued products the understanding of the following steps is required: controlling fire and temperature, moisture control, smoking with wood and the required time for barbecuing.


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## buttburner (Dec 17, 2014)

While this is all true and I agree with it, we are talking semantics here.

Look at suzyq's posts. She wants to "smoke" at 225. which is impossible according to this

Also, Jeff Phillips (site owner) recipes refer to "smoking" pork butts, brisket, all sorts of meat at temps of 225+

Which of course is also impossible according to your posted information

"smoking" as its referred to on this site, is generally referring to a wide variety of cooking methods using smoke as a flavoring.

I was addressing suzyq's desire to cook at 225.


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## remmy700p (Dec 17, 2014)

These semantic arguments go nowhere...


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## buttburner (Dec 17, 2014)

Remmy700P said:


> These semantic arguments go nowhere...


I agree

Sorry I got involved and tried to help out the original poster


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## susieqz (Dec 17, 2014)

you guys sure get passionate about this stuff. i was just looking for a little info.


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## timberjet (Dec 17, 2014)

That is because this is the best hobby ever. haha...


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## susieqz (Dec 17, 2014)

well,i'm happy to hear all points of view. i'll test as much as i can.

there's no need for friends to agree about everything.

i already disagree with the official policies.

i'll just do what's fun.


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## timberjet (Dec 17, 2014)

The best thing about this website is that generally people really want to help each other out. Normally there isn't much of that kind of behavior. But, some folks are very opinionated. I catch myself typing stuff sometimes and I will just shut the computer down and go do something else. Kind of like the only way I can hold my tongue. Like that in real life too. Probably why I live alone.


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## talan64 (May 18, 2015)

WOW!

I just did a quick search to see if anyone (or everyone) that has a Traeger has the same issues with the ingniter rod, and came to this posting.

There sure are a lot of opinions about pellet poopers, and Traeger especially.

I'll add my 2 cents anyways:

1. I have been pretty happy with my Traeger Lil' Tex, right up until just recently.  The only reason for my discontent is that I am about to install my 3rd ingnitor rod into it, and the last one only lasted 6 months (Winter and spring months so not a lot of smokes).  The original lasted 3 season, the first replacement 1 1/2 seasons, then this one 6 months.  I am still going to replace that ignitor since it is only $30 compared to the 2500+ that it will cost to get the pellet pooper I really want.

2. Pellet poopers are great for those of us that want the "ronco" of smokers, just set it and forget it.  Honestly, I'm just too lazy to get a smoker that will take more attention than my simple little traeger.

3. As for some of the comments I saw in this thread about pellet, I agree, the Traeger pellets suck!  I've been using Bear Mountain pellet, and while I may have to clean out the fire pot a little more often, I get better flavor, and heat out of them.

Like I said, just my 2 cents.  Remember most opinions are worth exactly what they cost - NOTHING!


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## susieqz (May 18, 2015)

i have to point out, traegers suck for  long smokes. you have to feed them every 2 hours.

i still have my traeger but never use it. wanna buy  it?

i bot a mes for $120, a maze for $12 n i can get a 12 hour smoke.

i light the maze up before bed, then go to bed. i go look at the smoker after my morning coffee.

i  got the traeger because i thot it would be easy but my set up is a hundred times easier.

i'm glad daveomak made me get the mes.

even easier is the tube, but that only burns 5 hours.


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## bregent (May 18, 2015)

>i have to point out, traegers suck for  long smokes. you have to feed them every 2 hours.

Curious about this comment. Why would you have to feed them every 2 hours?


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## susieqz (May 18, 2015)

well, if i load the hopper with pellets to  burn, it empties out in about 2 1/2 hours.

the traeger burns pellets for heat.

you are not supposed to let pellets run out.


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## talan64 (May 24, 2015)

susieqz said:


> well, if i load the hopper with pellets to  burn, it empties out in about 2 1/2 hours.
> 
> the traeger burns pellets for heat.
> 
> you are not supposed to let pellets run out.


What model of Traeger is that? What brand pellets are you using?  I have the Lil Texas, use Bear Mt pellets, and I've gone 16hrs + with a full hopper.  There is definitely something defective with that smoker. If I use Hickory or Mesquite pellets, it would go longer since they seem to burn a little hotter.  It's too bad yours eats pellets like that.


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## bregent (May 24, 2015)

>There is definitely something defective with that smoker. 

Yeah, something doesn't add up. The smallest hopper they make has a 10 lb capacity. At 2.5 hours, that means it's burning 4lbs/hour. I have a hard time believing that's happening. If it was burning 4lbs/hr,  the temperatures would be soaring.


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## susieqz (May 25, 2015)

i have the junior elitr. there is no mistake. when i tried an overnite smoke i had to get up every two hours,

yes, it always burns hotter than the set temp.

i  thot this was normal

i'll call treager to see if there's a fix.

thanks so much for alerting me to the possibility that i might get longer run times without filling the hopper.

i ended up buying a mes n maze just so i wouldn't have to constantly feed.

the traeger just sits there, unused.

oh, i have used many brands of pellets, including  awful traeger  pellets.


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## bregent (May 25, 2015)

This still is not adding up, even if the grill is malfunctioning.  If you are burning 4lbs per hour, then your grill temperatures would be approaching 500 degrees - your food would burn up in an overnight cook. More fuel = higher temp.  What 'P' setting are you using?

Are you sure you are filling the hopper to the top?

Try this  - fire up the grill and set it to 225. Once it reaches set temp, listen for the auger motor. Is it running constantly or intermittently? Count the number of seconds that it is on, and also how long it is off. This will give us a better idea of what's happening.


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## susieqz (May 25, 2015)

my food doesn't burn up  nor are temps that high. they run about 50-60 degrees hotter than the machine is set, when using it set for 225..

the P is at factory settings.

i'll test it but i already know the auger doesn't run continuously.

i fill the hopper to the top but my hopper is smaller than yours.

as far as i can tell, the machine runs as intended, except for an inability to hold heat, on the 180 setting, it does sometimes hit over 400. same with the smoke setting.

traeger was unhelpful in correcting this.


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## bregent (May 25, 2015)

>as far as i can tell, the machine runs as intended,

Well it certainly isn't running as intended it you only get 2.5 hours from a full hopper. As far as I know, that model has a 8lb hopper capacity.  I don't have a Traeger - I have a Camp Chef. But I know plenty of folks that have the Junior Elite that do overnight cooks on it and get 10+ hours on a hopper. It would be understandable if you were getting slightly less, but 4 times less ??

>except for an inability to hold heat, on the 180 setting,

Yeah, most pellet grills have problems with temps this low, and can have flame outs.


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## talan64 (May 25, 2015)

susieqz said:


> my food doesn't burn up  nor are temps that high. they run about 50-60 degrees hotter than the machine is set, when using it set for 225..
> 
> the P is at factory settings.
> 
> ...


I think you definitely need to check / adjust the "P" setting.  Also, if your temps are spiking that much, you should check the connection of your temp probe to the control board, a loose connection can cause big temp swings like that.  The temp probe screws into a terminal block, directly on the control board, and those screws can come loose, just don't try to tighten them too much and break the terminal block.

Mine had those temp swings when I had a short in the wiring for the probe, and it would short to the body, and the controller would just keep pumping pellets into the fire pot.

My Traeger has some temp swings but no where near what you are talking about.  When set to 225, I usually swing 215 - 240.  this seems normal for Traegers from all the users I have asked. 

Good luck if you even try to call treager, since they moved out of the country they are useless, but there are a lot of users out there from the early days when Traeger was still a quality smoker, that can help with issues, you just need to ask around.

I plan to replace mine sometime in the "not too distant future", and I plan to spring the money for the Yoder.  I have a work colleague who bought the Mak 2 star (ditched his traeger), and is very happy with it.


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## chitownsmoker99 (Jun 3, 2015)

Thanks for the info as I am researching smokers to buy, this was one brand I was looking at.

One question, why not just return the unit to the store you bought it at? Or did you buy it online?


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## susieqz (Jun 7, 2015)

i got mine directly from trager. they will never replace a unit voluntarily. when i first got mine the auger didn't work. they refused to help, expecting me to do all the fixing on a new unit. so, i called visa n stopped payment. then, they sent a new control box.

now that i know they should work better than mine i may try fixing the P thing, but i don't know how to do that.

i've been doing all my smoking on a MES with a maze. that works great for my  weekly smoke.

much cheaper n a better set up.


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## ordinary guy (Jun 7, 2015)

I bought a junior and then added the digital thermostat to make it an elite.. I kept getting flame outs ... of course I saw the temp go down, so i turned the unit up and then got a huge fire..... Anyway, when I called Traeger they told me to turn up the P setting..... I had no clue...... I did some online checking and here is what I found.....

So For Susieqz......

First there is a little piece of black tape on the temperature control box to the right of the digital readout.... peel that off and use something like a bent paper clip or toothpick and gently push in until you see the P setting number appear on the digital readout..... each time you push it in should go up one number.... I read that the factory setting is P2 .. Mine was set at P8.. remember this was a new temperature control, so it came that way from the factory......

After setting it at P2, it has worked just fine and the pellets are being used at a better rate......

I just ordered some new pellets here from this site and can't wait to try them for better smoke....... I am new to this and only used my pit 4 times but after finding this site a whole world of info has appeared...

Thanks to all here who are willing to help.

and I see I have a bit more ordering to do...LOL


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## susieqz (Jun 7, 2015)

thanks, ord. i'll see if i can lower that p thing.i'd rather just sell the durn thing. i'm happier with the mes.


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