# Bad smoke day WSM



## BrianGSDTexoma (Sep 22, 2021)

Smoked a turkey and half pork butt.  Butt had bad black smoke on it and tasted bad.  Turkey was better.  I used one of these hickory pieces. On top of charcoal.  Was a little big and water pan  lifted a little.  Used the BQQ Guru like normal.  Guess time to give smoker good cleaning and toss that wood.


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## smokeymose (Sep 22, 2021)

I wouldn't toss the wood just yet, Brian. I don't know what a BBQ Guru is but that butt looks just plain burned/overcooked.
There's something else going on....


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## tx smoker (Sep 22, 2021)

Man Brian, that's a shame to hear. We all know though that not every cook is gonna come out perfect. I agree with 

 smokeymose
 about the wood. I hardly think that's the problem but best of luck on the next one my friend.

Robert


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## SecondHandSmoker (Sep 22, 2021)

Brian, I agree with both 

 smokeymose
 and 

 tx smoker
 about not tossing the wood.
Something else is at play here.  Maybe the BBQ Guru malfunctioned in someway?

Stu


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Sep 22, 2021)

The butt is 160 with 2 probes in this pic before foil.  Not over cooked.  It ended up very moist but bad taste.  Smoker ran 250 using 2 probes also.


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## SecondHandSmoker (Sep 22, 2021)

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> The butt is 160 with 2 probes in this pic before foil.  Not over cooked.  It ended up very moist but bad taste.  Smoker ran 250 using 2 probes also.



Okay.  I'm now thinking the wood actually caught on fire.


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## chopsaw (Sep 22, 2021)

I've had the same thing happen with my 14 when I use bigger wood chunks . Not sure if its air flow or it just likes smaller chunks .


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## smokeymose (Sep 22, 2021)

SecondHandSmoker said:


> I'm now thinking the wood actually caught on fire.


That makes sense. How is the question and why didn't the "Guru" pick up on it?


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Sep 22, 2021)

SecondHandSmoker said:


> Okay.  I'm now thinking the wood actually caught on fire.





chopsaw said:


> I've had the same thing happen with my 14 when I use bigger wood chunks . Not sure if its air flow or it just likes smaller chunks .





smokeymose said:


> That makes sense. How is the question and why didn't the "Guru" pick up on it?


It looks like did catch fire but had high alarm at 275 and never went off.  It was good clean smoke when ever I looked.  I also think chopsaw right about 2 big of wood.  I tried to look at Inkbird graph but it gone know.  At least I found it has a messed up probe now.  I washed them this morning and probably got some water.  I will drop in over or deep fryer.  I going back to the RecTec for now.  I usually prefer smoke flavor of the  WSM.  Been looking for used 22".


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## tallbm (Sep 22, 2021)

Sorry to hear about the failure, it happens.

Good news though. Tom Thumb and Albertsons have $0.97/lb Pork Butts on sale as of today. If you wear a Cowboys jersey (or often a shirt or just a hat) on game day you get 10% off your whole bill so you can bring that down to about $0.88/lb :D


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## D.W. (Sep 22, 2021)

What was the bad taste? That should tell you the issue. Nothing wrong with high temps on a butt. I cook them around 275 and get them same exterior, nothing but deliciousness.


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## daspyknows (Sep 22, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Sorry to hear about the failure, it happens.
> 
> Good news though. Tom Thumb and Albertsons have $0.97/lb Pork Butts on sale as of today. If you wear a Cowboys jersey (or often a shirt or just a hat) on game day you get 10% off your whole bill so you can bring that down to about $0.88/lb :D



Wish they had that deal here although it would take 90% off for me to wear a Cowboys jersey.  Go Niners.


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## noboundaries (Sep 23, 2021)

Bury the wood UNDER the cold charcoal. Add the hot to the top of the pile. The wood preheats and carbonizes more cleanly.  Wood on top, whether splits or chunks, WILL burn and give off bad smoke. 

I bury splits in my WSM. Start with a SLOW fire (8-10) hot briqs, let it come up to temp over and hour or two, then add the meat. One of those wood splits will give flavoring smoke for the entire smoke.


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## tallbm (Sep 23, 2021)

daspyknows said:


> Wish they had that deal here although it would take 90% off for me to wear a Cowboys jersey.  Go Niners.


Hahaha I understand :D


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## Mr. Zorg (Sep 23, 2021)

noboundaries said:


> Bury the wood UNDER the cold charcoal. Add the hot to the top of the pile. The wood preheats and carbonizes more cleanly.  Wood on top, whether splits or chunks, WILL burn and give off bad smoke.
> 
> I bury splits in my WSM. Start with a SLOW fire (8-10) hot briqs, let it come up to temp over and hour or two, then add the meat. One of those wood splits will give flavoring smoke for the entire smoke.


I too give wood first shot at incoming oxygen. Any reasonably carbonized hardwood charcoal won't have enough volatile compounds content remaining to negatively affect the food. There is one exception to this, large pieces of some lump charcoals can have trapped pockets of unconverted resins, I've experienced that, but very rarely. The worst examples I personally encountered were B&B Oak Lump around 2008. B&B Charcoal is a completely different operation now since it was purchased by Duraflame several years ago, the lump charcoal manufacturing is all in Mexico now, and the vareities are now "Hardwood Blend with (Oak, Hickory, or Mesquite)". If you're near your smoker when there's such a pocket you'll know it. Pulling the peice out ASAP, or opening the air registers and running higher temperature with enough incoming oxygen until things line out is another way to address this. JM2C.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Sep 23, 2021)

noboundaries said:


> Bury the wood UNDER the cold charcoal. Add the hot to the top of the pile. The wood preheats and carbonizes more cleanly.  Wood on top, whether splits or chunks, WILL burn and give off bad smoke.
> 
> I bury splits in my WSM. Start with a SLOW fire (8-10) hot briqs, let it come up to temp over and hour or two, then add the meat. One of those wood splits will give flavoring smoke for the entire smoke.


I will try that.  Thanks.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Sep 23, 2021)

tallbm said:


> Sorry to hear about the failure, it happens.
> 
> Good news though. Tom Thumb and Albertsons have $0.97/lb Pork Butts on sale as of today. If you wear a Cowboys jersey (or often a shirt or just a hat) on game day you get 10% off your whole bill so you can bring that down to about $0.88/lb :D


This was doomed from the beginning.  I took out what I thought was a boneless half to make ham.  A whole butt to much for me so usually use the bone in half for sausage or chunk in for stews.  I have a whole and a half still in the freezer but may go get one so I can get it in the cure.


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## cansmoke (Sep 23, 2021)

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> This was doomed from the beginning.  I took out what I thought was a boneless half to make ham.  A whole butt to much for me so usually use the bone in half for sausage or chunk in for stews.  I have a whole and a half still in the freezer but may go get one so I can get it in the cure.


Isn't a bad day smoking still better than a good day at the office?


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Nov 19, 2021)

noboundaries said:


> Bury the wood UNDER the cold charcoal. Add the hot to the top of the pile. The wood preheats and carbonizes more cleanly.  Wood on top, whether splits or chunks, WILL burn and give off bad smoke.
> 
> I bury splits in my WSM. Start with a SLOW fire (8-10) hot briqs, let it come up to temp over and hour or two, then add the meat. One of those wood splits will give flavoring smoke for the entire smoke.


This the first time since that bad smoke using the WSM.  Still have not got that taste out of my head.  Doing a pork butt. Should of took pic of wood but as  big as the other was.  Here it is ready for morn.  Going with 250 I think.  Foil at 160.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Nov 20, 2021)

Well up and running.  Been Q'ing all my life and still have my bad days.  Great thing about this is you always learning.


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## SlowmotionQue (Dec 30, 2021)

Bury the wood beneath a good lump charcoal like Jealous Devil.  Lose the Kingsford.   Kingsford  and some of the other briquettes use binders to give you those square shapes.  And it can leave a bad taste on food.  Lump is wood and nothing else.  Find a good lump charcoal and you'll be glad you did.
	

		
			
		

		
	















Then we put ,ore coals over the top of those chips and light it in the center.


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## Mr. Zorg (Dec 31, 2021)

SlowmotionQue said:


> Bury the wood beneath a good lump charcoal like Jealous Devil.  Lose the Kingsford.   Kingsford  and some of the other briquettes use binders to give you those square shapes.  And it can leave a bad taste on food.  Lump is wood and nothing else.  Find a good lump charcoal and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


100% Hardwood charcoal briquettes work well too! There's variable quality (depending how that term is applied) in charcoal briquettes just as there's variable quality in lump charcoal brands, and with lump sometimes variable quality of the contents from one bag to another from the same brand.

"Good" is a pretty subjective term.


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## Mr. Zorg (Dec 31, 2021)

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> This the first time since that bad smoke using the WSM.  Still have not got that taste out of my head.  Doing a pork butt. Should of took pic of wood but as  big as the other was.  Here it is ready for morn.  Going with 250 I think.  Foil at 160.
> 
> View attachment 516791


That certainly looks like Royal Oak charcoal briquettes (or Frontier brand, owned by Royal Oak), or the Members Mark charcoal briquettes from Sam's Club. Which specific vareity are you using in this cook session?


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## SlowmotionQue (Dec 31, 2021)

Mr. Zorg said:


> 100% Hardwood charcoal briquettes work well too! There's variable quality (depending how that term is applied) in charcoal briquettes just as there's variable quality in lump charcoal brands, and with lump sometimes variable quality of the contents from one bag to another from the same brand.
> 
> "Good" is a pretty subjective term.



All very true Mr. Zorg.

When I think of a "good" lump charcoal, I think of one made from dense Argentinian hard woods.  Jealous Devil, or as I don't especially care for the large blocks, Kamado Joe Big Block charcoal.  If they aren't available,  then   I'll also use B&B in a pinch.

I stay away from Royal Oak as it is literally junk, and BGE which is or was made by Royal Oak.  I also stay away from Cowboy for various reasons.

FOGO is ok, but it pops and sparks a bit too much IMO.

As for briquettes, especially Blue bag Kingsford and others which use binders, I stay away completely as the smell and taste of Kingsford  blue bag, to my nose and tastebuds,  leaves exactly the taste that the original poster in this thread describes.

Hope that helps with what I consider a "good" lump charcoal.  Other opinions on this will vary of course.

As for placement of the wood.  Coming from Kamados and other cookers, among them two WSMs, it is my experience that WSMs, much like Kamados, tend to  burn "dirty" with a propensity towards dark smoke which takes longer time to become thin blue smoke.

I have found this matter to be compounded when bargain brand charcoals are used, and  found it to be especially concerning,  when wood which may or may not be properly seasoned, is placed on top of that cheap charcoal.

Best way in the world, and a "sure fire" way, no pun intended,  to get prolonged periods of dirty smoke in a WSM.

For me, well seasoned wood, under a "good" quality lump charcoal has been the best way to get and keep thin blue smoke in a WSM in the shortest amount of time.

I follow a lot of the tips that Harry Soo offers.  Thus I use the charcoal that I see him using and I build my fuel bed in the manner which he does, with the wood on the bottom.  I also control my temps using the top vent primarily as he suggests.  I've gotten good results following this pattern.


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## Mr. Zorg (Dec 31, 2021)

I've found Frontier to offer a good lump charcoal. Quebracho wood isn't a necessary ingredient for a charcoal to be "good" for me, but it's a "good" wood to make charcoal from. I first encountered it in the Original Charcoal Company Rancher charcoal briquettes sold at Home Depot in 2007, made in Paraguay and Uruguay. Those were sold as a loss leader at $2.99 / 20 lb. Bag at the time. I stockpiled around 800 lbs. of those, used my last bag in 2012.

TNW even did a writeup on them.






						Original Charcoal Company Rancher Briquettes -- Naked Whiz Ceramic Charcoal Cooking
					

A short review of The Original Charcoal Company's new Rancher 100% natural briquettes.



					www.nakedwhiz.com
				




Currently these are my preferred charcoal briquettes containg Quebraco. With the free shipping on orders $35+ they're $0.45 / lb., part of what I consider in value analysis.



			Robot or human?
		


There are certainly good Made in USA charcoal products from Royal Oak. The success story post by the OP just prior to your post shows briquettes with the (silly to me) Ridge feature, with his smoke wood below. The Royal Oak Chef's Select briquettes, and the same briquettes put into Members Mark bags sold at Sam's Club at $0.43 / lb. this year have worked well for me. I picked up 80 lbs. Currently not in stores (a seasonal item) we'll see if they reappear in the Spring.









						Let us know you're not a robot - Sam's Club
					






					www.samsclub.com
				




I did pick up a 20 lb. box of Jealous Devil Chunx lump at $1.00 / lb., and a 20 lb. box of Jealous Devil briquettes at $1.00 / lb. to try out but I don't think I'll get twice the use out of them. Most places I see Jealous Devil product prices at $1.50 / lb. on up but for $1.00 / lb. I'll try a box of each. But with all these other options available I kinda doubt I'll buy more. Jealous Devil appears to be just one label used by Charcoal Cowboys, they may be filling the product bags for Master Grill as well.









						Home - Charcoal Cowboys
					





					charcoalcowboyscorp.com
				




I do understand what you define as "good".

I hope that helps you understand what I use for value analyses, and personally use something other than subjective terms. YMMV as always of course.


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## Mr. Zorg (Dec 31, 2021)

FWIW I don't follow Harry Soo or anyone on the competition circuit. I simply cook for my, my wife's, and our friends & family's tastes, plus charity things like church BBQ's, using techniques I've applied and adapted over 47 or so years. I was offered a sponsership by Packaging Sevices Corporation if I'd go on the BBQ Competition Circuit when they owned the Frontier brand, but I wasn't able to put a team together before Royal Oak purchased that brand from PSC. I'd already been retired for a couple of years from my (non-food related) career so I was free, but I personally couldn't be a one man show in such a mileau. Just as well I reckon. I enjoy the process as a pastime I don't want to turn it into "work" and jack around with injections and stuff full of MSG or other hydrolyzed proteins, nor be messing with squeeze Parkay on ribs. But for those that enjoy such stuff, more power to 'em!

The only Weber products I've ever owned are one each of their two charcoal starter chimneys, but I've used several different brands of bullet style smokers - my most recent such purchase is in my avatar / profile photo here. I've never owned nor used a WSM. I started out using a Brinkmann Gourmet in the mid-70's but I've owned and used, and still own and use, some offset style smokers as well. Each has it's own adjustments in technique.

Been fun chattin', as always! This would be a mighty boring place if we all did the same things in the exact same way all the time. Or had identical frames of reference for "good", or "value". I most definitely enjoy variety, and options to choose from!


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## SlowmotionQue (Dec 31, 2021)

SlowmotionQue said:


> All very true Mr. Zorg.
> 
> When I think of a "good" lump charcoal, I think of one made from dense Argentinian hard woods.  Jealous Devil, or as I don't especially care for the large blocks, Kamado Joe Big Block charcoal.  If they aren't available,  then   I'll also use B&B in a pinch.
> 
> ...





Mr. Zorg said:


> I've found Frontier to offer a good lump charcoal. Quebracho wood isn't a necessary ingredient for a charcoal to be "good" for me, but it's a "good" wood to make charcoal from. I first encountered it in the Original Charcoal Company Rancher charcoal briquettes sold at Home Depot in 2007, made in Paraguay and Uruguay. Those were sold as a loss leader at $2.99 / 20 lb. Bag at the time. I stockpiled around 800 lbs. of those, used my last bag in 2012.
> 
> TNW even did a writeup on them.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip on the Charcoal Cowboys and Master Grill.

I intend to research it further.  I'm always looking for a bargain without sacrificing what I consider to be quality.  Some would call that "value".

I should also add that like you, I tend to depend on the opinions on taste of those whom I'm serving.

However, it just so happens that following Soo's advice, gets me to that point of favored opinions better than other methods that I have tried.

My preference, and for many of those who eat my smoked foods, friends, family, we prefer a lighter smoke flavor.  As an aside, and for this reason, I have also gotten good results using my Rec Tec pellet grill.  Pellets tend to burn cleaner and offer a lighter smoke flavor.  Indeed, and again this is an aside,  some pellet smokers, and some types and brands of pellets, again to my taste buds, offer "too light" of a smoke flavor.

Smoke flavor, to me, is like any other seasoning in the respect that "too much" is just as bad as "not enough".

And this brings me back to my charcoal preference in my WSMs and Kamado for that matter.  It has been my experience that lump charcoal, made from Quebraco woods, offers, and again this is to my tastebuds and those for whom I cook,  a lighter smoke flavor, which is not overpowering.    This type charcoal burns hot, and IMO cleaner than some of the other brands and reaches that point where thin blue smoke is observed quicker than with other charcoals that I have used.    In other words, less of a creosote taste than some of the other less expensive brands of lump and briquettes that I have used in the past.

Adding well seasoned hardwood beneath it, gives me just the taste that I'm looking for.    Gives me just a tad stronger smoke profile than what I get using  "good" quality hardwood pellets,  in my Rec Tec pellet grill and a smoke tube.  Not overpowering.

But again, thanks for the info.   I will look at the Master Grill offerings and other offerings coming from resellers who source their charcoal from Charcoal Cowboys.


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## BrianGSDTexoma (Dec 31, 2021)

Mr. Zorg said:


> That certainly looks like Royal Oak charcoal briquettes (or Frontier brand, owned by Royal Oak), or the Members Mark charcoal briquettes from Sam's Club. Which specific vareity are you using in this cook session?


Yeah its Royal Oak.  Down to a couple bags now from a few years ago.  It gets the job done but would not buy again.  I been waiting for charcoal sales to restock but don't look like going to have anymore.  I always been happy with kingsford.  Something happened on that one cook but been fine ever since.


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## noboundaries (Dec 31, 2021)

I suspect RO made changes to their formula during the pandemic shutdown. It no longer lasts as long as it did before. Time to change again.


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## Mr. Zorg (Dec 31, 2021)

BrianGSDTexoma said:


> Yeah its Royal Oak.  Down to a couple bags now from a few years ago.  It gets the job done but would not buy again.  I been waiting for charcoal sales to restock but don't look like going to have anymore.  I always been happy with kingsford.  Something happened on that one cook but been fine ever since.


Yep - I stick with 100% Hardwood charcoal whether lump or briquettes - loke the Royal Oak Chef's Select (and it's rebagged Members Mark at Sam's Club), same with other brands. Just hardwood charcoal plus a touch of vegetable starch (corn starch, wheat starch, yucca starch). I don't care for briquettes blended with mineral (mined) coal no matter how many bags are sold. Just my preference.

Glad you had a great cook session with the slight modification, here's to  many more in the future!


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