# Red mould on coppa !



## bernieross (Feb 18, 2020)

Just noticed some red/brown, almost orange coloured mould on my coppa.   A bit powdery, but also slightly sticky.   Photos attached.    This is a 2 kilo coppa from an organic 30-month old mangolitisa pig!    It cost a small fortune, but worse is that it's been drying for three and half months, and has lost 29%.    It's almost ready and is my most ambitious project so far.    I've wiped it down with vineagar - you can see the colour better on the tissue that I wiped on it.      There is nothing in the cure that colour - no paprika, etc, just a bit of fennel seed and black peppercorns (which are the black spots visible through the casing).    Humidity has been between around 71% to 78%,  and temp at a pretty constant 13 degrees.   Any opinions?    It would be a real tragedy if I had to throw away this one at this stage.


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## daveomak (Feb 18, 2020)

Keep it going...   Vinegar wipe should work...  When it's lost all the weight to make it perfect, you can always cut out any mold spots when you slice off bite size pieces....


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## BGKYSmoker (Feb 18, 2020)

Mold info.

In many European countries (France, Italy and others) it is a normal occurence to see a salami with a white surface mold. This is how it has been made for hundreds of years, the mold is intentional and it contributes to the wonderful flavor of the sausage. It also protects the sausage from the effects of light and oxygen which helps to preserve color and slows down rancidity of fat. Mold covered salamis are not smoked as the smoke application will prevent molds from growing on the surface. Cold smoking sausages (below 25º C, 78º F after fermentation (after around 48 hours) will prevent mold from growing on its surface. Mold can be removed by wiping it off with a rag soaked in vinegar solution. The color of the mold should be white or off-white and not yellow, green, or black. As mold in time can grow to a considerable length it is brushed off before consumption.

Yeast and molds grow much slower than bacteria in fermented meats and sausages and they develop later in a ripening process. They utilize some of the lactic acid that was created during the fermentation stage thus increasing pH (lowering acidity) what as a result improves flavor in a slower fermented product. They don't seem to be affected by a pH drop in the fermentation stage and will grow in a vast range of temperatures (8º -25º C, 46º -78º F) as long as there is high humidity in a chamber. To ensure fast growth at the begining temperatures higher than 20º C (68º F) and humidity over 90% is required.

Yeast - Debaromyces
Mold - Penicillium
Nobel mold is fine white powdery (Penicillium) good mold.
Non desirable molds include black , green, brown, redish with fuzz. Green molds in the powdery state have been know to be safe.


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2020)

I am just getting into fermented meats, but I'm curious as to why the mold coverage is not more far along and if you treated the outside of the coppa with Penicillium nalgiovense prior to fermentation.


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2020)

If you look at the salami on the right, it has what looks to be the same orange mold...
http://microbialfoods.org/science-digested-new-penicillium-species-discovered-salami/


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2020)

check out the visual guide posted here:









						Microbe Guide: A visual guide to salami microbiology - MicrobialFoods.org
					

A visual guide to the microbes that grow on artisan salami



					microbialfoods.org
				




...orange patches are Staphylococcus xylosus....


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## atomicsmoke (Feb 18, 2020)

bernieross said:


> Just noticed some red/brown, almost orange coloured mould on my coppa.   A bit powdery, but also slightly sticky.   Photos attached.    This is a 2 kilo coppa from an organic 30-month old mangolitisa pig!    It cost a small fortune, but worse is that it's been drying for three and half months, and has lost 29%.    It's almost ready and is my most ambitious project so far.    I've wiped it down with vineagar - you can see the colour better on the tissue that I wiped on it.      There is nothing in the cure that colour - no paprika, etc, just a bit of fennel seed and black peppercorns (which are the black spots visible through the casing).    Humidity has been between around 71% to 78%,  and temp at a pretty constant 13 degrees.   Any opinions?    It would be a real tragedy if I had to throw away this one at this stage.


My 2 cents: you are good. 

While visiting some salumi making places in Italy i saw products covered with some nasty molds. They wouldn't even wipe them off until.they complete the drying stage when they were washed.

Ofcourse I backed up the car.


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2020)

Pretty good drying chamber trouble shooting article...

https://tasteofartisan.com/meat-curing-chamber/


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## bernieross (Feb 18, 2020)

Thanks everyone!  Very useful advice.    The coppa was covered with thick white mould a couple of weeks after it started drying.  It then developed a very few spots of black, when I went away from home and switched off the heating.  With the ambient temperature in my house cooler, the fridge needed to cool less, and humidity built up a bit.   I gave it a brief vinegar wipe and all was well, with the good white stuff surviving on parts.    This new red coloured mould is newer.   Very good to know that I don't have to junk it!    Only ten days or so left, I think, and she'll be ready.


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## indaswamp (Feb 19, 2020)

bernieross said:


> It then developed a very few spots of black, when I went away from home and switched off the heating.  With the ambient temperature in my house cooler, the fridge needed to cool less, and humidity built up a bit.


Do you use a dehumidifier?


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## bernieross (Feb 19, 2020)

indaswamp said:


> Do you use a dehumidifier?


No.  I'm using a very small fridge in a cupboard under the stairs.  No room for a dehumidifier other than a crappy peltier one, and they don't work at these temperatures.   When the fridge kicks in, it takes out humidity.   But the colder the house gets - like when I'm away in winter and my home heating is switched off - the less the fridge has to work, the humidity can build up.   Normally, there's a good balance with just the humidifier, and the fridge taking out any excess humidity as it cools, keeping it around 75%, plus or minus a few degrees.   The mould appeared after I had been away from home for a week and the humidity had built up.   Seems to be OK now.   Will post a photo when it's done.


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## daveomak (Feb 19, 2020)

A very small dehumidifier I use


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