# Over-nighting a 16lb packer brisket. (now with Q-View)



## whodatatdado (May 27, 2011)

Hi all,

I'll be smoking a large packer this weekend.  It will be my second attempt at brisket. 

Last time I posted my results with qview - ended up with some nice BBQ, but it was a bit on the dry side. 

Suggestions for this weekend?  I will definitely foil this time (probably at around 160*). But should I go for a high heat cook or a low heat midnight cook. 

Very interested in your thoughts!!

Btw- I'll be 'cueing on an 18.5 inch WSM with the water pan full.


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## rp ribking (May 27, 2011)

Low and slow. Them WSM's can maintain temps for many hours.

Save the planet and not foil.

Me thinks better smoke, bark and taste!!!  

Good Luck!!!


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## whodatatdado (May 27, 2011)

Hahaha.  

I tried foiling some babybacks last weekend and was amazed at how much more tender they were than no foil.  I made an oath that I'd never do ribs without foil again.  

I am assuming I'll have similar results if I foil my brisket... Is that a bad assumption?


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## rp ribking (May 27, 2011)

whodatatdado said:


> Hahaha.
> 
> I tried foiling some babybacks last weekend and was amazed at how much more tender they were than no foil. I made an oath that I'd never do ribs without foil again.
> 
> I am assuming I'll have similar results if I foil my brisket... Is that a bad assumption?


Foiling is a personal preference, for me I do not foil any meat except for the cooler after smokin'.  I still get juicy butts, brisket and ribs with no mopping or spritzing, foiling will make's the bark soft. A non foiled rib can be fall off the bone too, it just takes many ribs and practice. Good Luck!!!


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## SmokinAl (May 28, 2011)

I'm assuming that you didn't foil the last time. If that's the case then I would try foiling this time so you can see the difference yourself. I tend to not foil & they are always moist, but I usually smoke brisket in the 210-215 degree range. One as large as yours may take 25-30 hours at that temp, but it will be moist. Another tip is if you trim some fat off, put the fat on the top rack & the brisket underneath it so it will self baste. Good luck & don't forget the Q-view!


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## whodatatdado (May 28, 2011)

Thanks guys!

25-30 hours is too long as it needs to be ready by noon tomorrow. 

Still wondering if I should do high heat or standard method at 225-250. 

Anyone ever try a high heat brisket?


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## forluvofsmoke (May 28, 2011)

I wouldn't run @ more than 250*, myself. Brisket will benefit enormously from low & slow, and if cooked too fast, it will pass right through the melting pot temps which tenderize all the connective tissues. With smaller packers or seperated point/flat cuts, I've run as low as 210-215* just so it won't heat through as fast and still get the low & slow benefits.

As for foiling, a big yes if you don't want to be tending the rig for 24 hours. I've smoked brisket and pork butts on open grates to finish temps many times in recent months and it increased overall cooking times by at least 1/3, sometimes more. No-foil is great if your after that phenominal bark, otherwise, foil is our friend. As mentioned, during the resting stage, the meat will slowly pass back through the melting pot temps again, and this will further breakdown the connective tissues...a double-wammy, if you will.

180*-185* for sliced and 200* for pulled...if I want sliced flat & pulled point, I seperate somewhere between 160-165*, foil the flat take to ~185* and rest, while the piont rides it out to the 200* mark. Oh, if you're after burnt ends, seperate @ 160* and cube up the point to 1-1/4~1-1/2" and re-season or sauce and smoke 'em for another couple hours...much higher than that and I don't get the texture I'm after in the BE's...slightly crisp bark with a firm popping chew. They're a favorite for appetizers and snacks around our house. You can pull the flat as well, if foiled and taken to 200-205 with some of the fat cap still on...not a standard practice, but it's do-able.

Good smoke to ya, brother!

Eric


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## SmokinAl (May 28, 2011)

Like Eric said the worst thing you can do is try to rush a brisket, I'm assuming it's in the smoker now, right?


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## whodatatdado (May 28, 2011)

Wow!!  Lots of great info guys.  Thank you!

I got home and started immediately. 

Trimmed a bit and rubbed it up. 







Started the coals minion style and let her rip. On the grill at 5pm. 






I'm gonna target 225*-250*. Prolly closer to 250. 

My goal will be to pray she is tender at around 11:30 tomorrow (18.5 hour cook)  That's gonna be a stretch, but I have my fingers crossed!!!

I've read 1-1.25 hours a pound at this temp.  So around 19 hours. 

Wish me luck, I think I am going to need it.


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## forluvofsmoke (May 28, 2011)

Your most welcome for the info from us all...that's just one of the many reasons why we hang here.

Looks like you're off to a good start, and from what I've read about the WSM, she'll take good care of your brisket. I think you've found the brisket weight limit for the 18.5"...that's pretty snug on the corners, which I try to stay away from the outer couple inches on a vertical rig, as they tend to run hottest there. It'll be fine eating, non-the-less.

Brisket is the king of smoked beef, IMHO. Gotta grab another case of myself...my freezer stock is gone...I guess that's what I get for smoking 2-3 per month...LOL! Takes a couple runs to get 'em they way you like 'em, and then you can start playing with some variables and tweek the end product even more to your liking...kind of a never ending cycle, but it's sure fun to play it out and eat the results.

I love to hear a good success story come from a smoker (even with all that I've had myself), so keep us up to date!

Eric


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## whodatatdado (May 28, 2011)

So we are 2.5 hours in. 

Temp holding at 239 at the grate and 136 in the flat.  Seems high to me for only being in for 2.5 hours.  

Any insight?


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## hbark (May 28, 2011)

I had a similar question Thursday on mine, although it was a 9lb flat. All turned out well, took 14 hours overall.

sent from my Thunderbolt


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## forluvofsmoke (May 28, 2011)

Sounds to me like the WSM is running with very good convection characteristics with 136* @ 2,5 hrs and 239* grate temps. If you trust your probe (recently verified it's temp reading) just roll with it.You probably could have ran in the 220* range and still been in good shape. Some smokers need higher temps to achieve what others will do at lower temps. Higher elevations above sea level is another factor as well...higher temps to get the same cooking times as lower elevations would give. I have both factors to deal with, being at nearly 5,000 ft, and most of my smokers set-up for efficiency of fuel use instead of the best convection properties...just my preference.

You'll still hit a stall or two before it's over (my guess would be in the mid-upper 140's, and another one about 15-20* above the onset of the first stall, sometimes higher). Keep your lid on the WSM and let 'er ride...don't wanna loose any heat if you can help it. That rig probably recovers in decent amounts of time, I suspect, but it still adds to overall cooking time when you open it up. Let the stall run it's course @ steady chamber temps and it'll wake up when it's ready. I've had some briskets and butts go flat-line for hours, and if you're not expecting it, it can drive ya nuts...second-guessing your probe reading being accurate, probe placement, etc.

Oh, danger-zone time/temp shouldn't be an issue either if the flat is that close to 141* already...the point should be within 8-10* of the flat, but always lower due to a higher cross-sectional density (thicker). It appears in the pics (when I compare the distance from the edge of the grate to the meat) that it's starting to shrink just a tad, so she's cooking along just fine. You'll see quite a bit more shinkage by the time it hits the 160* range and above.

Lookin' good...I say _*smoke on*_!

Eric


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## whodatatdado (May 28, 2011)

I agree I could run it a bit cooler... Here we are 3.75 hours in and i'm at 235* at the grate and 156* in the flat.  I've got a new Maverick et-732 and I trust the readings it gives.  Boiling water test showed 214 (close enough for my blood).

I'm gonna knock the WSM down to run around 220*.

I hope this thing isn't at 190* at 3am!!!


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## forluvofsmoke (May 28, 2011)

whodatatdado said:


> I agree I could run it a bit cooler... Here we are 3.75 hours in and i'm at 235* at the grate and 156* in the flat.  I've got a new Maverick et-732 and I trust the readings it gives.  Boiling water test showed 214 (close enough for my blood).
> 
> I'm gonna knock the WSM down to run around 220*.
> 
> I hope this thing isn't at 190* at 3am!!!


214* rapid boil is close at sea level, but what's your elevation?

Here's a water-boil temp chart, just for giggles...some related info you can use to tell how close your probe really is: http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Calib-boil.html  

Eric


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## whodatatdado (May 28, 2011)

i'm about 375 feet above sea level :)

So my boiling point is between 211-212.


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## pit 4 brains (May 29, 2011)

Sounds like you are doing fine. I doubt if will take the full 1.5 hours per lb like you said. You are wise to leave yourself some extra time just incase though. i just loaded two 10 lb briskets and a 11.5 lbs worth of pork butts in my UDS and I too am looking at about 13 hrs of smoking. The whole meal is riding on my drums ability to cook steadilly all night. Your WSM should do you well. Good luck!


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## whodatatdado (May 29, 2011)

good luck with the UDS!!  Let us know how it turns out.

I'm currently 7 hours in and it's holding at 162.  I dropped the heat to an average of around 210 and will try to hold that tonight.

I may try to get some rest :)


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## whodatatdado (May 29, 2011)

Hour 8.  Can't keep the temp lower than 220-230.

Internal temp is reading 165.


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## SmokinAl (May 29, 2011)

Sounds like it's time to foil.


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## whodatatdado (May 29, 2011)

Ok guys...  Here's where I am. 

Al: I didn't foil as I was afraid it would shorten the cook time by too much. I respect your advice but this time I just had to go with my gut. Next time, I foil! :)

@3am: 
Grate 212
Meat 180

@4am:
Grate 190
Meat 181
Stoked the coals and left them at 212. 

@7am:
Grate 187
Meat 187

So, I decided to pull. 







I split the point thinking I would do burnt ends, but decided against them as I didn't trust how the flat was looking. It seems a bit dry, but I didn't slice the whole thing yet. 












Both are now resting (foil, towels, cooler). I'll be slicing at around 1. 

So the smoke started at 5pm, pulled at 7:30am for resting. That's 14.5 hours at low heat. 

It'll rest for 6 hours - is that too long?

Something tells me I'll be pulling this brisket, not slicing it. 

Back to bed for a nap :)


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## forluvofsmoke (May 30, 2011)

How'd ya make out? Moisture issues with the flat? Just curious, as you mentioned it looked a bit dry when you yanked it out to seperate and foil. Sometimes the first look can be decieving, as I've had more than my share look dry until after a rest...put a freshly straightened carving knife into it, and get a welcome surprise...never know 'til the moment of truth comes.

Temps will usually determine wether you'll slice or pull when smoking a brisket. If it's too high internal temp, slicing can be sheer torture...thicker slices will hold together more easily than thin. Anyway, I've found that around 190-195* is close to the breaking point for sliced. 185* is pushing it a bit, but very tender. 180* is a slightly firmer slice, not quite as tender, but still very good eating. Overall, 180* is probably the best for ease of slicing and tenderness. 200* & up is definitely pulling temps...even @ 195*, you can pull it sometimes.

Sliced, pulled, or some of each, either way, I'm sure it was worth the wait.

Eric


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## whodatatdado (May 30, 2011)

So Eric, pulling wasn't in the cards, thankfully. I was familiar with the temps you mentioned about slicing vs foiling, but heard stories about resting too long in foil and having to pull something you planned on slicing.  Ahhh, the Internet :)

As for this brisket - the point was great!  Tasty, pretty juicy and sliced well.   

The flat, on the other hand, was like a brick. I didn't even serve it. 

Point:






Flat:












Some finishing observations:
- I had a tough time with keeping  temp up. 
- The brisket was a "select".
- Holding time was long. 
- the flat was great. 
- I must have way overcooked the flat as it was dry and tough.


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## africanmeat (May 30, 2011)

The point looks great ,great slicing .i will slice the flat and steam it before eating it it will soften it.


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## SmokinAl (May 30, 2011)

I've never seen a flat that looked so dry before, foiling would have helped keep it moist. The point looks delicious!


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