# WTF???? 3rd pulled pork attempt...



## ryanje (Mar 27, 2010)

Hey all....Im hoping someone out there can help me salvage my sanity. 

Right now I am on my 3rd attempt at pulled pork.  Also, my 3rd smoking attempt with the 36" master forge from lowes, first smoker ever. 

This is also the 3rd time now I have failed to cook pulled pork.  For some reason I cant get it cooked!  

This time its a 4 pounder with bone.  Cooking at between 220 and 250 using a probe thermo through wood block literally right next to meat (verfied accuracy with 2 thermos in boiling water).  I put it on at 11:30am and it is now 8:00pm.  Going on 9 hours and it is only at 160*F!  This happened the other 2 times also.....

What in the world is going on?  I have read all the basics, primers, stickies, and a few books (which all say 1.5 - 2 hrs per pound). This is mighty discouraging!

Thanks for any insight!


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## caveman (Mar 27, 2010)

I am sorry for your troubles. You are almost there. 5 more degrees, then you can pull it & foil that puppy to either go back on the smoker until 195 - 205 or just drop in a cooler for a couple of hours. An hour at least. I thought I read or heard somewhere that those models don't hold heat well. Someone with more info will be along to correct me or back me up. Hang in there bud!!! Have another cold one, no matter what it is, soda, water, beer, tequila, etc.

P.S. You could also finish in the oven if necessary.


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## kobornigan (Mar 27, 2010)

Don't sweat it bro, it's all a tasty learning process. I had the same troubles when I started off. Butts are tricky but once you get it, you got it. I usually plan for 12hrs when smoking a butt. I'm usually doing a 8-9 lber too. So figure on 10-12hrs at 225-250. Good luck & try to enjoy it, even if it isn't perfect.


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## mistabob (Mar 27, 2010)

It might have stalled out.  Butts tend to do that every once in awhile then all of sudden the temp shoots up like crazy.  Usually happens a couple times per butt smoke for me.  With the foil time added, I usually end up between 10-12 hours for a medium size butt.  Those things take patience.  Just gotta wait it out...then foil 'er up!  Good luck!


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## ryanje (Mar 27, 2010)

I guess I am confused.  It is only 4 LBS.  why would it take 10-12 hours like an 8 lb butt?

I actually have to pitch it since I have to leave in an hour.  I thought giving myself 10 hours was plenty of time!!!!

Its the second time I have put all this work in only to have to throw it out because it is not cooked and wont finish.


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## mistabob (Mar 27, 2010)

Throw it out?! Can't you just foil it and come back later or foil it and freeze it?  That's a lot of awesome meat to just throw out!

Anyway, with all the butts I've made, it's always between 10-12 hours no matter how big the butts have been, at least for me.


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## caveman (Mar 27, 2010)

For the love of all that is smokey, don't pitch it!!!!!!!  Throw that puppy in the oven.  Give it a proper burial!!


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## ellymae (Mar 27, 2010)

160 degrees - you should NOT pitch it. Throw it in the fridge and reheat it in the oven. 
The "problem" with BBQ is it's done when it's done. You can't rush it. If you are going to cook, allow way more time then you think like 4 hours more then you think it will take. If it's done sooner, wrap it in foil and a twoel, then throw it in a dry cooler. Don't get discouraged, practicing is half the fun.


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## rdknb (Mar 27, 2010)

Don't give up, I agree on allowing more time.  The end result is way worth it


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## ddave (Mar 27, 2010)

What she said. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	





It usually takes me 9 hours to do 4.5 pound butts on my UDS.  I usually start them at 6 am.  If they finish before dinner, they go in the cooler with some towels.

Dave


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## pineywoods (Mar 27, 2010)

Don't throw it out put it in a ziplock bag or foil it then when you get back home double wrap it in foil and put it in the oven at 250 degrees and let it come on up to 200 internal then put it in a warm dry cooler for at least an hour and then pull it.


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## ryanje (Mar 27, 2010)

Funny thing is, I gave 4 more hours than I thought it would take.  UGH!  Are you saying I should put it in the fridge at 165 then cook it tomorrow the rest of the way?  Wouldnt it taste funky?  I have only 1 more hour here.


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## pineywoods (Mar 27, 2010)

I know this doesn't sound right but I often find the smaller cuts take just as long or longer than a larger cut. It seems every time I try a small cut whether it be a butt or a chuck roast the plateau times are crazy. On the next one I would suggest running the smoker at 250 the whole time the butt will be fine at that temp and should help speed things up a bit


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## ryanje (Mar 27, 2010)

Im not trying to second guess anyones advice here, but, has anyone else out there cooked a 4'ish LB butt and how long does it take??

I HAVE to figure out if I am doing something wrong. If I say its just the way it is and I am in fact doing something wrong, I will never correct the issue!


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## ak1 (Mar 28, 2010)

It takes as long as it takes. That's just the way it works. What's good for me, at my area, with my smoker is different from what will work for you. Hell, what works for me today, may not work tomorrow. But, the meat will always tell me when it's done.


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## TulsaJeff (Mar 28, 2010)

I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 factors that influence the amount of time that it takes to cook a piece of meat.. Pounds and thickness.

When it comes right down to it, it is the thickness that matters more than the weight. Usually a large weight transcribes to a lot of thickness but not always and this is something that a lot of folks don't pay attention to.

When I am shopping for meat, I look at the thickness just as much as the weight because this affects the time it will take to cook/smoke.

I have not seen this 4 pound butt but I have a feeling that it is thicker than most 4 pound butts.

There are also pieces of meat that are just plain ol' tough and it just takes longer no matter what.

I can't believe I am saying this but I am almost tempted to tell you to throw that baby in the crock pot while you are gone. I think it would be a good save with less loss of moisture than a complete recook later... just my opinion.

At any rate, don't throw it away!! I am gonna have nightmares tonight about that


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## jjwdiver (Mar 28, 2010)

First time...8# butt. Took 6 hours, 4 9 pounders at one time took 13 hours. I knew to open the smoker and grab it when the internal temp hit my target number. Not before... 

as said above - it takes as long as it takes. Line up 10 people with the same weight meat and they will all be at different times. All meat is not the same - each cow, pig, whatever lives a different life than the one next to it.

It does not sound like you are doing anything wrong other than trying to cook via time instead of temp.

Don't give up!!!


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## northern greenhorn (Mar 28, 2010)

Don't throw out good meat, I'm new to the smoking world also, and so far what I've learned from the fine folks at smf is priceless. Listen to what these people are telling, I'm sure most of them have been where you are, when they started also. Smoke some ribs next week, just to rebuild your confidence, and remember, nothing in life ever goes as we plan, but that's life, and that's how we learn, there is science involved in cooking, but mostly it's an art, so keep on keeping on.


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## hogfan40 (Mar 28, 2010)

Crazy isn't it, i just got done smokeing 2 pork butts, and here is the crazy deal about today's smoke. I had a 10lb butt and a 8 pound butt. OK, the 10 lb butt took 14 hrs to get it to 195-200 degrees, the 8 pound took, get this 16 hrs, both were smoked at 225 all day long, and was put on the smoker at the same time. I think what your are having trouble with, is that your pork is hitting a stall, and the fat needs to render and melt, then your temps will go up. Hang in there you will get the hang of it.


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## wingman (Mar 28, 2010)

I have had this happen a couple smokes ago. I had 2 stuburn pork butt's in the 7 lbs. range and they had less marbling then I normally like. it was all that Costco had. 

Not sure what your pork butt's looked like when it started but Jeff above was right. tougher meat, less marbling and thickness all play a big role. Try and forget the time thing and go only by temperature. If it takes 16 hours give it 16 hours and beat the thing! 

When doing pork butts get a good marbled one and give yourself an entire day and evening next time. When you nail it it will be one sweet victory that will be amazing.


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## meateater (Mar 28, 2010)

Don't toss the meat, next time start earlier.


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## ddave (Mar 28, 2010)

I cook 4 pound butts all the time.  The Safeway store here likes to cut the bigger ones in half apparently.  Most of the ones I get are in the 4 pound range.  Every once in awhile I find one just over 5 pounds.  Like I said, it usually takes 9 hours in the UDS  with temps running between 240° and 260°.  I usually foil at 165° and take 'em up to 195°.  The one time I did not foil it took closer to 11 hours.  I'm not saying it will take longer if you don't foil, I'm just saying sometimes it takes longer than you think. 

I don't think you're doing anything wrong.  As long as you are holding steady temp in the smoker, there's not much you can to wrong to extend the cook time. 

I believe this to be true.  I think it takes temperature and TIME at a certain temperature to break down the connective tissue.  You cook a butt at 250° until the internal temp hits 195° and it is tender.  Although you could cook one in at 375° and force it to 195° internal faster, I don't think it would spend enough time at the given temps to break down the connective tissue and be tender.

Similarly, country style ribs, which for the most part are strips of the pork butt, seem to take quite awhile to get really tender and they are pretty small cuts compared to a 5 pound butt.

Dave


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## capt dan (Mar 28, 2010)

exactly right dave. It really has more to do with the make -up of the meat than size. Untill that breakdown  occurs, its not gonna get done. I have had country ribs take 8 hrs before, and 10 lb butts take 8 hrs.

I wouldn't toss it. Just  wrap it  and park it in the oven at 225, and head out for a few hrs.Put it in a pan to save on clean-up too!

I have found that the 1 1/2 hr per lb guideline to be not accurate at all. Make sure that you also don't park your probe too close to the meat, because if you are opening and looking alot, the meat heat will give a false temp to the ext/grate temp probe by being too close to a mass of heated meat.


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## guvna (Mar 28, 2010)

i've never thrown away any meat. i've seen a few posts on here that describe folks throwing meat in the trash and i've never understood that. anyway - about butts... like others have mentioned, no matter how small the cut is, it seems to take almost as long as any other sized butt. i.e. no less than 9 or 10 hours (or more). even for a 4 pounder. if i were you, i would smoke some wings and sausages and ribs and try my hand at a butt later. smoked chicken wings might be my favorite thing to smoke and they're done in 2-3 hours.


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## mballi3011 (Mar 28, 2010)

man I have smoked a 10lb butt and had it done in 12 hours but it didn't stall or anything. I would keep on smokin and it will get there soon enough. Then just throw that thing in the cooler and things will work out just fine. After all a third time is the charm ain't it.


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## sweet chops bbq (Mar 28, 2010)

I did 35 lbs last night and the biggest butt I had was 10.5#. It was stuck on 170 for 2 hours. Sometimes you just have to wait it out.


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## justsmoke2 (Mar 28, 2010)

A lot of good advice here.  I have tried smaller butts now I will ask the meat manager if they have any whole butts.  I will use the smaller butts for making sausage.  All the small ones I did took as long if not longer then a whole butt.  Why i cannot tell you cause I don't know.  You might try uping you your temps to 260 to 280 range.  The other is if you haven't calibrated your thermometers you may want to do that.  I calibrate mine more then I should but thats me.  Fore most DON'T GIVE UP.  No 2 butts are alike.


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## disbe81 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sounds to me like your smoker has a heat leak. When you hit 160, foil it, throw it in the oven at 275 degrees, and it will finish in no time. Even if your smoker says 220 - 250, and your meat is at 160, the smoker may have too much air flow. I have noticed on very windy days, i have to fight to keep my smoker at 200-225, and when my butts and briskets hit 160-165, they will sit there forever, so when it is windy like that, i just take em straight to the oven after i foil em around 160-165. Like i said, sounds like your smoker has a heat leak if there is such a thing, or too much heat transfer/air movement or something like that. Hope that helps.


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## tjohnson (Mar 28, 2010)

Ryan,

How cold is it outside?

Is your smoker insulated?

Just throw it in the oven to finish it off.  It's done smoking anyway, so the rest of the time is just to finish it up to 190-200 degrees.

My last butt stalled out around 160 degrees, and took almost 10 hours to cook.


Todd


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## ryanje (Mar 28, 2010)

How would I know if it has a heat leak?  The thermometer I used for temp was next to the meat and read 220-250 constantly.  I did have the stack on top wide open and the vents on bottom fully closed.  

I do know that smoke comes out of everywhere and not just the stack on top if that matters.


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## ryanje (Mar 28, 2010)

It was about 50 outside and here is a link to my smoker.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_190449-95393...758_4294937087_


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## ellymae (Mar 28, 2010)

Just getting back to this. Yes, if you were running short on time and weren't planning on eating said butt last night, I would have pulled it off the pit, wrapped it in foil and thrown it in the fridge overnight. (Some of us have left them out to rest for a "while" and that "while" turned into overnight and the meat had to be pitched). 
Next day keep it wrapped in the foil, throw it into a pan then into a 225 - 250 degree oven and let the internal teamp come up to 200 degrees. It will not taste funky - it will be delicious.

What did you end up doing?


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## eman (Mar 28, 2010)

If you have smoke coming out anywhere besides the stack then you need to seal that smoker. 
If smoke is leaking out so is the heat.
I had an old heavy duty offset new braunfuls and wanted something smaller just for a rack of ribs or 2 . Bought an ecb from lowes and used it twice. Thing was like smoking in a screen box. As cheap as i got it . It wasn't worth the time or money to do all the fixes it would need.
Thanks to a small fast storm and a big oak tree i don't have to worry about it or my new braunfuls anymore. 
If you think you are going to enjoy this smoking thing then start saving your pennies and get yourself a better unit or do some research and do the fixs for yours.
W/ all the leakage you have you will never be able to truly enjoy smoking as you will constantly be having to work your temps.
This is just my opinion and others may disagree.


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## chefrob (Mar 28, 2010)

if this is correct you should have been fine......it doesn matter how much yer smoker leaks or the outside temp. i would have opened the bottom vents a little but the most important thing is patience, you sound like your on the right track.
btw - i always try to get my butts on by 9am or earler.


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## mossymo (Mar 28, 2010)

With a tube or two of high heat silicone it will at least get you sealed up to see if that is where the problem is. Be sure to reseason your smoker well after the sealant is dry.


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## roller (Mar 28, 2010)

He has probably got hold of an ol Sow that has had 40 litters and she just ant coming around...lol..All kidding aside these guys have given you every reason to fix your problem just heed to the deed dude...


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## ryanje (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks all for your responses and insight!

I really dont want to give up on this smoker and smoking.  I am going to try ribs next weekend, if I cant get those to cook then I will go nuts!

Maybe its just the meat I am using.


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## ellymae (Mar 28, 2010)

Glad you're not giving up - just hang in there, keep it low and slow, and you will find what works for you with time and practice. 

Looking forward to your rib post next week.


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## ddave (Mar 28, 2010)

What he said. 
	

	
	
		
		



		
			





Dave


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## disbe81 (Mar 28, 2010)

The only thing i would add to what Jeff said is density. I have had 2 briskets before that were almost the same exact size/mass, yet 1 was around 6.5 lbs and the other was almost 9 lbs. The one that weighed less actually felt more tender to the touch and the heavier one felt harder. They were both the same temp and had about the same fat content to the naked eye, this was before they were cooked as well. The brisket that was more dense took much longer to cook then the other did. The point Jeff makes about thickness and weight are very true, but density plays a large roll as well. I have had 2 butts that were close in size and weight, but one took a good bit longer, and the only thing i could think of was the density of the meat. The more dense one was a little bit smaller then the other, and weighed a little bit more, but not by a whole lot, and the fact that it was more dense then the other made it take longer to cook.

If anyone is having trouble wrapping their mind around density in meat, just think of a marshmellow versus a 2 inch by 2 inch square of white chocolate. Put each one in the oven around 250 and see which one melts down faster.

I may have actually confused someone there, hell, i may have confused myself. 

Hope i helped some! lol


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## disbe81 (Mar 28, 2010)

Just looked at the link you posted, and i can tell you right now it is not you it is that smoker. I seen it at Lowes or HD and thought to myself "Man, that has a lot of 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch gaps everywhere, that wouldnt work too well to keep heat in". Do yourself a favor, buy some caulking made for grills/smokers, or take some aluminum foil, roll it up into round strips, and stuff it in all the cracks, try another butt, and see if your results change. If they do, bingo.


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## chefrob (Mar 28, 2010)

but if his temps were consistent and were 225-250 then the leaks are not the problem. he may have used more fuel but his temps were there.


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## smokin b (Mar 28, 2010)

you might check the thermometer with my bigger smoker that i paid 400 dollars for, i still found that they put cheap qualty thermometer on it


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## ddave (Mar 28, 2010)

The gaps aren't that big a deal if the temps are consistent like chefrob says.  My SnP has those kinds of gaps all the way around the lid.  I have smoked all kinds of stuff on it with no trouble.  There's a 3" hole in the top anyway.  It might use a little more fuel but it certainly won't add to the cooking time if the chamber temp is correct.

Dave


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## ryanje (Mar 28, 2010)

Yea I use a probe through a piece of wood, the door thermo is  junk.  

Well the temp did range fropm 220-250 without me changing anything.  I am assuming if it says it was that temp though that it shouldnt matter how much heat is leaking. 

I may try sealing the doors though.


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## smokin b (Mar 28, 2010)

i sometimes wrap the butt in plastic wrap  at 205 and set it a cooler for a couple of hours it, has always kept it at a safe temp and practicly falls apart when i un-wrap it. butts will get fairly dark when done so dont think your burning them they call that the bark of the butt i refer to it as my peices i do not share very good with them


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