# Venison chorizo done to 40% weight loss



## crazymoon (Feb 6, 2022)

My Umai Chorizo finally hit the magic number for weight loss, one stick a wee bit over and the other 2 were 4-5 grams under the desired weight.:












I had a little bit of case hardening but nothing that ruins the texture /taste in anyway. I love the 40% weight loss texture more so than the 30-35% that I have done in the past.   Thanks for looking ! CM


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## SmokinEdge (Feb 6, 2022)

Looks good. Nice work.
If that little bit of case hardening bothers you, just vacuum seal it and let it rest in the fridge for a couple weeks. The moisture will balance out.


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## crazymoon (Feb 6, 2022)

SE, I vac sealed everything up except for the ends  and will wait until next weekend to break it out.


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## SmokinEdge (Feb 6, 2022)

crazymoon said:


> SE, I vac sealed everything up except for the ends  and will wait until next weekend to break it out.


Did you use Pimenton in the recipe? Or another Chile powder?


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## chopsaw (Feb 6, 2022)

Looks perfect just the way it is . Nice work . I agree on the 40 % . That seems to be the magic number for me too .


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## WaterinHoleBrew (Feb 6, 2022)

CM, nice work on that chorizo… it looks top notch!  I’ll bet that tastes amazing with a cold one!


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## crazymoon (Feb 6, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> Did you use Pimenton in the recipe? Or another Chile powder?


SE, I used a Umai  Chorizo seasoning pack ,I just cut back on the salt that is called for.


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## SmokinEdge (Feb 6, 2022)

I think they use real Pimenton. That’s the real deal. You will enjoy.


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## SmokinEdge (Feb 6, 2022)

Did you use a culture to ferment?


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## indaswamp (Feb 6, 2022)

Looks good to me. Good job. umai salami in the fridge tends to have a little more of a dry rim...nothing to worry about. As mentioned, vacseal will help even the moisture.


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## crazymoon (Feb 6, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> Looks good to me. Good job. umai salami in the fridge tends to have a little more of a dry rim...nothing to worry about. As mentioned, vacseal will help even the moisture.


IDS, You were spot on when you said 40-45 days as it was exactly 45 for the 40% loss.


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## crazymoon (Feb 6, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> Did you use a culture to ferment?


SE, Yes ,I used Bactoferm-T-SPX.


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## checkdude (Feb 6, 2022)

That looks great!  Did you use umai spices or your own? I tried it with umai spice pack and was not impressed.


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## TNJAKE (Feb 6, 2022)

Looks fantastic. Thanks for sharing!


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## crazymoon (Feb 7, 2022)

checkdude said:


> That looks great!  Did you use umai spices or your own? I tried it with umai spice pack and was not impressed.


CD, I used the  Umai spice pack that you add your own cure ,salt and culture. I cut the salt in half.I used  one other spice pack from them that was blandless but I have forgotten which type/


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## tx smoker (Feb 7, 2022)

Very, very nice looking stuff!! Patience pays off. I tend to agree about the weight loss. Texture of that looks outstanding.

Robert


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## HalfSmoked (Feb 7, 2022)

Looks great to me however I have not made any but should try. Hey i will be glad to be a taste tester for you.    

Warren


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## Brokenhandle (Feb 7, 2022)

It sure does look good! Stop trying to push me out of my comfort zone and try something new yet again lol.

Ryan


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

crazymoon said:


> I cut the salt in half.


Since 

 chef jimmyj
 is no longer with us, I will address this.

I went to the Umai website to look up the amount of salt recommended. It was given in tsps.; specifically 5 tsps. per 1kg. I weighed out 5 tsps. of Morton's table salt and it was 29.75gram, which is 2.975%. Add in the cure and the sodium is closer to 3.25%; that is in the safe zone. If you cut the salt in half, you are now down to around 1.75% total salt (including the cure). For hard salami, using tspx, which is a slow fermenting culture, 1.75% salt would not be high enough for adequate safety. The safe zone for hard slow fermented salami is 2.75-3.3% total salt. If you use a fast fermentation culture, you can get by with 2.5% total salt because the acid production is so fast, and the final pH is so low and that provides additional safety. The bad bacteria do not have enough time to grow in the high acid environment. The amount of salt is necessary for a strong safety hurdle in salami during the initial fermentation stage and should not be reduced. You can substitute a portion of the sodium salt for potassium salt and the potassium ions will provide the same ionic inhibiting effect on gram negative bacteria (the bad ones). It is recommended not to replace more than 3-5% of the total sodium chloride with potassium chloride or the salami could taste bitter.

There is not a safe way to make a low salt salami that I am aware of. The salt is crucial for the safety of the product, as well as facilitating the drying process.


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

If the salami is stuffed into small diameter casing 18-27mm, is fast fermented, and will be hot smoked immediately after fermentation, the salt can be lowered to 2-2.25%. The small diameter of the salami, low pH to 4.5 coupled with the heat of the smokehouse will dry the salami to around 20% weight loss. This is sufficient for a semi-dry salami stick. The Aw will be around 0.90 and the salami will be microbiologically stable. Further drying is an option if desired.


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## crazymoon (Feb 7, 2022)

*IDS, My chorizo recipe called for 65 grams of salt for 5 pounds of meat,I had  4 pounds and one pound fat , I  used 40 grams so more then half . I have used 65 grams in the past and the product was  way too salty. I also checked a venison salami recipe Umai posted requiring only 40 grams for 5 pounds. I have gone with the 40 grams on my last 4 batches and probably will continue to do so. Disclaimer  to all sausage folks ,don't follow my recipe !  *


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## SmokinEdge (Feb 7, 2022)

crazymoon said:


> *IDS, My chorizo recipe called for 65 grams of salt for 5 pounds of meat,I had  4 pounds and one pound fat , I  used 40 grams so more then half . I have used 65 grams in the past and the product was  way too salty. I also checked a venison salami recipe Umai posted requiring only 40 grams for 5 pounds. I have gone with the 40 grams on my last 4 batches and probably will continue to do so. Disclaimer  to all sausage folks ,don't follow my recipe !  *


What 

 indaswamp
 posted is correct for salami safety. 2.5% is the minimum and 3% is widely used. 
That said, the salt you are using, along with the cure salt puts you all over a 2% salt. Now then, with the Umaidry process being under refrigeration temperature the whole time except for the fermentation period, my feeling is that you are fine. You could use a faster culture like LHP or F-RM 52 and apply dextrose at 0.5%. This will drop your ph below 5.3 in about 10 hours at 95*F. That’s fast enough to microbiology stable the salami. Otherwise because of refrigeration you are good to go.


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> What
> 
> indaswamp
> posted is correct for salami safety. 2.5% is the minimum and 3% is widely used.
> That said, the salt you are using, along with the cure salt puts you all over a 2% salt. Now then, with the Umaidry process being under refrigeration temperature the whole time except for the fermentation period, my feeling is that you are fine. You could use a faster culture like LHP or F-RM 52 and apply dextrose at 0.5%. This will drop your ph below 5.3 in about 10 hours at 95*F. That’s fast enough to microbiology stable the salami. Otherwise because of refrigeration you are good to go.


A faster method to lower pH would be to add 5g/kg. GLD or even faster....add 1.67g/kg. citric acid (acts 3 times faster than GDL at lowering pH). Those dosages would be enough to drop the pH to below 5.3 very quickly. If I were to use lower than 2.5% salt for a salami-that is what I would do. You could still add a gram or two of dextrose and the culture will still grow, but the immediate pH drop will go a long way towards safety during fermentation when the bad bacteria have the greatest chance of growing the fastest because of the high Aw. But also remember that lower salt slows drying, so the bad bacteria will have more water to work with for a longer period of time.


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## Sven Svensson (Feb 7, 2022)

Wow, that looks great. I may have to give that a try.


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## SmokinEdge (Feb 7, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> A faster method to lower pH would be to add 5g/kg. GLD or even faster....add 1.67g/kg. citric acid (acts 3 times faster than GDL at lowering pH). Those dosages would be enough to drop the pH to below 5.3 very quickly. If I were to use lower than 2.5% salt for a salami-that is what I would do. You could still add a gram or two of dextrose and the culture will still grow, but the immediate pH drop will go a long way towards safety during fermentation when the bad bacteria have the greatest chance of growing the fastest because of the high Aw. But also remember that lower salt slows drying, so the bad bacteria will have more water to work with for a longer period of time.


I agree with you, but the flavor of the recipe would be way off. Your talking summer sausage tang. Umai does not give the deep flavors of real deal salami, but it’s not summer sausage either. The process is under refrigeration except for fermentation, which is key, but nitrite is involved and 2% salt along with lactic acid. It’s not that dangerous given that we have quality meats and not a full scale commercial operation. I don’t feel the danger is that high in modern times. This isn’t 1900. Heck when most of the processes were established it was done so without refrigeration from slaughter to final product other than ambient temps. We have everything in place for food safety, even an extra in the form of refrigeration, so I just don’t see the concern. He ferments for 24 hours, creating lactic acid and then goes into a presumed 37* refrigerator. With salt, nitrite and lactic acid starting the drying stage I don’t see the problem. It’s not the same as in a 53* chamber .

How do you feel about Umai products suggesting the use of cure #2 under refrigeration temperature?


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## Brokenhandle (Feb 7, 2022)

I was looking into the umai products earlier this evening.  Maybe 

 crazymoon
  has urged me to step out of my comfort zone and try something new!
But...

As someone that is  not a newbie, and totally understand about keeping everything food safe on this site. Some of you  are so knowledgeable on the curing side it's too much! Don't take this the wrong way but if you get too in depth and technical you could just as well be talking in Greek.  We have to be able to understand and most importantly comprehend what you are saying.  

Ryan


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> How do you feel about Umai products suggesting the use of cure #2 under refrigeration temperature?


The flavor forming and nitrate reducing staphylococcus bacteria will still work under refrigeration temps, albeit at a much slower pace. The nitrate reserve will last longer. If using less salt, this is a benefit since Aw will stay higher for longer.


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

Brokenhandle said:


> As someone that is not a newbie, and totally understand about keeping everything food safe on this site. Some of you are so knowledgeable on the curing side it's too much! Don't take this the wrong way but if you get too in depth and technical you could just as well be talking in Greek. We have to be able to understand and most importantly comprehend what you are saying.


If there is anything that I have typed you do not understand, please ask me specifically and I will explain it to the best of my ability. I am glad you are looking to expand your skill set and want to learn. Be glad to help anyone that wants to learn....


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## Brokenhandle (Feb 7, 2022)

Will do! Thanks


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## DougE (Feb 7, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> If there is anything that I have typed you do not understand, please ask me specifically and I will explain it to the best of my ability. I am glad you are looking to expand your skill set and want to learn. Be glad to help anyone that wants to learn....


And that right there, folks is what makes this place so great. Those who really knowing their stuff willing to take their time to share what they know and explain it in a way a noob can understand.


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

Brokenhandle said:


> Will do! Thanks





DougE said:


> And that right there, folks is what makes this place so great. Those who really knowing their stuff willing to take their time to share what they know and explain it in a way a noob can understand.


I'm just trying to help people do it safely...not trying to berate anyone with my responses on this thread. I hope That is clear in my posts.


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## DougE (Feb 7, 2022)

indaswamp said:


> I'm just trying to help people do it safely...not trying to berate anyone with my responses on this thread. I hope That is clear in my posts.


Absolutely, inda. I was saying that it is a great resource for us to have access to guys like you who really know the nuts and bolts of all this willing to help someone new to it out.


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

DougE said:


> Absolutely, inda. I was saying that it is a great resource for us to have access to guys like you who really know the nuts and bolts of all this willing to help someone new to it out.


Ill be the first to admit I do not know it all when it comes to dry curing meats. It is such a huge topic....but I know how to do it safely. The safety hurdles are what allow us to make fermented sausages safely, and salt is one of the most important elements in the first 24 hours of the life of a salami. That is when the water activity is at it's highest, before the dripping stage and before final acid drop occurs.


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## indaswamp (Feb 7, 2022)

SmokinEdge said:


> given that we have quality meats and not a full scale commercial operation.


This particular salami is made with venison and that adds and element of unknown to it.


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## indaswamp (Feb 8, 2022)

So, I found the recipe on Umai dry for venison salami. It is a Len Poli recipe. And yep, on the umai dry site is says 35 g. of salt.
https://drybagsteak.com/homemade-venison-salami/

 I cross referenced that to Len's site and the correct amount is 48 grams of salt (2%). 
http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm#DRY
And when you add the 6 grams (0.25%) cure #2; The total salt is 2.25%. Whoever transcribed the recipe for umai dry typed the amount for the next line down-powdered milk @ 35grams. Len also likes to use an extra fast culture...LHP which has both pediococcus strains for accelerated pH drop. 
Typos happen...I get that. But if new people don't know any better, they won't see the hazard of not enough salt. I would triple check every recipe posted by umai if I used them......

2.25% salt with extra fast LHP...and the cold refrigerator to mature.....probably OK.


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## crazymoon (Feb 8, 2022)

Brokenhandle said:


> I was looking into the umai products earlier this evening.  Maybe
> 
> crazymoon
> has urged me to step out of my comfort zone and try something new!
> ...


 BH, Umai Is very simple, just follow what their instructions say and you will be enjoying a fine product. You do need to buy cure #2 and a starter culture(expensive) if you use their basic spice package or make your own seasoning mix. I believe they do sell a complete spice kit with all the ingredients included.


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## HalfSmoked (Feb 8, 2022)

Thanks for the like crazmoon I will extent my offer of a taste tester to you as well.

Warren


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