# Best snack stick casings?   More tender....



## forgiven1 (Aug 18, 2019)

Hi all,

I would like to make snack sticks that are like the old school kind you used to get from a gas station.   They were loose in a bin and DRY.  Inside and out, not greasy or soft.    You would not even notice the casing on these accept that they had a twisted end you could see.   

I bough these and they are terrible.

They are like eating plastic.   The good thing is since they are so tough I can peel them off in one piece most of the time LOL!  

Do you guys know where I can get some casings that are better?


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## Sowsage (Aug 18, 2019)

I dont know about anyone else  but I have had the same problems with collagen casing that say they are for smoking. I use the ones for "fresh sausage" in the smoker with no problems. Also you could try a sheep casing. The ones I have seen in the gas station like what you described look to me like they are a natural sheep casing.


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## DanMcG (Aug 18, 2019)

18-20 sheep casing is what I use...might be bigger then what you're use to but they are tender.
They do shrink down a couple mm's so not much bigger then store bought


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## forgiven1 (Aug 19, 2019)

Thank you both for the suggestions!   

danmcg, for the 18-20mm sheep casings what size tube do you use?    I was able to get the 19mm raw hide ones on my .6" but it was not easy.


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## DanMcG (Aug 19, 2019)

I use a 1/2" O.D. tube, (13mm)


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## chopsaw (Aug 19, 2019)

Sheep casings are a game changer . I never bought them because of the comments on how hard they are to use . 
Bought some , and store them wet in salted water . Slide right on the tube . I use the same as Dan . 1/2 " stainless . 
Makes a big difference .


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## zwiller (Aug 19, 2019)

I have my first sticks on deck but I have seen a number of comments that there needs to be a drying stage before smoking.  Not sure if you did that.  Kinda reminds me of the issue with poultry skin so it makes sense.  I got mine at Butcher Packer and reviews were good.  I also remember guys saying to avoid Amazon etc and stick with reputable sources for casings.


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## forgiven1 (Aug 19, 2019)

I don't mind sharing my process.  First I blend the meat and cure plus seasonings.   Mix in the mixer for about 8-10 minutes or till full protein extraction (meat goop) is achieved.    Stuff the casings and leave them uncovered in the fridge over night for the cure to work. 

Place in smoker at 90 deg with a fan blowing into the lower port for an hour and then start smoking.   Increase temp 10 degrees every hour till I hit 170.   Finished IT is 152 for me.   

I did not ice bath them when they were done as I was hoping they would shrivel up some like the sticks I remember.    Didn't really work out that way.   A few of the sticks I know for sure were not quite stuffed all the way (probly where I had to refill the stuffer)  but even the ones that were full have the same plasticy casing issue.


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## pushok2018 (Aug 19, 2019)

forgiven1 said:


> They are like eating plastic.


I am using 19mm and 21mm collagen casing from TSM relatively often for hot dogs and beef sticks and you are right: they are not really eatable - they are very chewy... When I eat my Hot dogs  I just peel the casing off and this works for me. The only positive side using collagen casing from my point of view it's extremely easy to work with comparing the sheep casing, which is PITA. On the other hand sheep casing is more enjoyable to eat...


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## zwiller (Aug 19, 2019)

Some much for the drying idea...  The more I get into sausage the more confused I get.  I didn't think you could smoke sheep casings and thought they would break.


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## pushok2018 (Aug 19, 2019)

zwiller said:


> I didn't think you could smoke sheep casings and thought they would break.


zwiller, sheep casing is absolutely perfect for smoked sausages. I used it to make several batches of kabanosy (only sheep casing) and hot dogs and never had problems with smoking. Filling them with ground meat - on the other hand - is PITA....


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## chopsaw (Aug 19, 2019)

zwiller said:


> So much for the drying idea..


You have it right . He dried at 90 degrees for an hour . Gets the condensate off the outside so the smoke penetrates . I do 110 for couple hours , just depends . 



pushok2018 said:


> Filling them with ground meat - on the other hand - is PITA....


I've had good luck with them . I was surprised . If I get one that won't open ,,, I snip the end and try again . If it's a no go ,,, good bye . I get another .
I'm using 22 mm to 28 mm so maybe that makes a difference ?


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## pushok2018 (Aug 19, 2019)

chopsaw said:


> I'm using 22 mm to 28 mm so maybe that makes a difference ?


Could be... Thicker walls?


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## DanMcG (Aug 19, 2019)

For those that say Sheep/ lamb casings are a bitch to work with need to read Joe's guide on how to handle natural casings.
Here's the link;
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/how-to-handle-natural-casings.159729/
My method is very similar, only after rehydrating the casings I store them in a 10% solution of salt/water.
 Try Joe's method and you'll never complain about working with a casing again.


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## chopsaw (Aug 19, 2019)

I do mine like this . Hog and sheep . Always ready . No blow outs . 
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/how-to-handle-natural-casings.159729/#post-1153327


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## chopsaw (Aug 19, 2019)

Oops ,,, Dan got ya . I type to slow .


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## DanMcG (Aug 19, 2019)

chopsaw said:


> Oops ,,, Dan got ya . I type to slow .



Hahaha, Great minds think alike.


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## dward51 (Aug 19, 2019)

Those old time snack sticks in a jar like you described are made by a fermentation process which is totally different from how we make them normally.  It's a longer combination of smoking and drying in a controlled environment.  NEPAS has made some that way, but it's a lot more time and effort consuming than "regular" snack sticks or dehydrated jerky.

You can still buy the bacteria needed for fermentation and the cure (cure #2, not #1), but there is a lot more to the process.  Google fermented snack sticks and you will get an idea.

I remember in the 70's we had a Swiss Colony store at the mall when it opened.  They had these long dried fermented sticks that came in 3' ropes folded over.  I used to love those things - totally shelf stable and no refrigeration needed.  Dang near impossible to find those types of sticks anymore, and a PIA to make yourself.


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## JckDanls 07 (Aug 19, 2019)

I get my Sheeps at Syracuse Casing...  they are pretubed and easier to handle...  I like em for sticks but also for breakfast links...


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## forgiven1 (Aug 19, 2019)

dward51 said:


> Those old time snack sticks in a jar like you described are made by a fermentation process which is totally different from how we make them normally.  It's a longer combination of smoking and drying in a controlled environment.  NEPAS has made some that way, but it's a lot more time and effort consuming than "regular" snack sticks or dehydrated jerky.
> 
> You can still buy the bacteria needed for fermentation and the cure (cure #2, not #1), but there is a lot more to the process.  Google fermented snack sticks and you will get an idea.
> 
> I remember in the 70's we had a Swiss Colony store at the mall when it opened.  They had these long dried fermented sticks that came in 3' ropes folded over.  I used to love those things - totally shelf stable and no refrigeration needed.  Dang near impossible to find those types of sticks anymore, and a PIA to make yourself.



Ahhhhrr :(    and LOL.    I've had those ropes as well, as recently as 90s to maybe even early 2000s.    A genuine beef stick is as hard to come by as a wild blue unicorn.    I have to say I'm glad you told me about the fermented sticks.  I was working under the assumption that the new squishy sticks being sold were just the good old sticks that had not been dried enough.    I'm really not sure I can afford to take on the fermented ones yet.   Although my love for them will eventually drive me to it...


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## dward51 (Aug 20, 2019)

I've had good results with AC Legg's #116 seasoning. I've tried others which I do like, but #116 is my go-to and favorite. The seasoning out of the bag is very good, but I also doctor it up for a little different flavor.  Here is one of my prior threads with the recipes (#116 plus changes I used and lots of photos).

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/snack-sticks-ac-legg-116-base-with-modifications.269120/

That thread also has an excel ingredient calculator attached.  You can change the amount of meat and get precise weights for your spices and cures (in grams) for that recipe.  I would recommend a spice scale with 1/100th of a gram resolution if you don't already have one. $20-25 on amazon (photos of mine in the thread).


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## pops6927 (Aug 21, 2019)

www.makincasing.com - Syracuse Casing Co.


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## chopsaw (Aug 22, 2019)

forgiven1 said:


> Ahhhhrr :(    and LOL.    I've had those ropes as well, as recently as 90s to maybe even early 2000s.    A genuine beef stick is as hard to come by as a wild blue unicorn.    I have to say I'm glad you told me about the fermented sticks.  I was working under the assumption that the new squishy sticks being sold were just the good old sticks that had not been dried enough.    I'm really not sure I can afford to take on the fermented ones yet.   Although my love for them will eventually drive me to it...


The last batch of sticks I did , I ground up 2 lbs of chuck , 3 lbs of pork butt . I used Owens regular snack stick seasoning . Smoked to 152 . Pulled , no ice bath . When cool I put them in a large brown paper bag in a 36 degree fridge for 3 weeks . Came out great . No grease , dry and great flavor . Much better than the day after I pulled them .


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## daveomak (Aug 22, 2019)

Learn about casings here...  There are collagen casings for all applications...

"https://www.youtube.com/embed/Be1dK0BFo8c" 


..


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## forgiven1 (Aug 22, 2019)

Dave when you make your snack sticks are you using the fresh or the smoked casings?   I have heard some people say they get away with using the fresh even with hanging.


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## daveomak (Aug 22, 2019)

I am currently using the smoked 21MM...  I'm thinking of trying the fresh and lay them on Todd's Q-Matz.....


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## dward51 (Aug 22, 2019)

Also be aware even collagen casings can be old and dry out.  Fresh ones will perform better.  The older dry ones will tend to not stick to the meat and separate after cooling.  The worst luck I ever had was with any of the LEM ones at Bass Pro or Academy retail stores.  No telling how long those hung on the rack before being sold.  Freshness counts even with collagen casings.  The stuff you get from a sausage supply company online will be much fresher.

Also I like to use a phosphate binder, either B&P "special binder" or AmesPhos. It helps with the meat texture, mouth feel, moisture, and I have had zero issues with casings not sticking with a binder.  If you use a phosphate binder you do not need soy binder or NFDM.  I pretty much use binders in all my sausage and sticks now.


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