# Need help on Mountain Ash (Rowan) genus "Sorbus"



## sqwib (Mar 4, 2014)

My brother is having three Mountain Ash Trees removed and he asked the tree guy about using it as firewood.

I figured its about a cord, it would save him a bit on a few seasons worth of gas.

The tree guy said it was no good for firewood as it turns white and spongy after it has been cut and will not burn good.

As I have gotten older, my trust in certain people has been slowly diminishing, I am not a cynic but when it comes to dealing with people that can gain from someones naivety or trust I get fired up. I have seen too much in the way of unscrupulous activities as people are becoming more cut throat to survive.

Here's the Dilemma, I am trying to convince him to save a good portion of the wood for firewood and for my pit, I offered to do all the chainsawing and splitting myself.

I think hes reluctant because of what the tree guy said... and who knows, he may be spot on!

I am not worried about flavor of the wood as I will use this as a two part fuel source if need be.

When I burn unwanted woods I will only use that wood when foiled or if the food is covered.

I went through a good amount of bug infested ash this way, hell why use up my premium wood when I don't need it, this works out great because I get rid of a lot of junk wood this way.

Here's the only info I could find and there's no first hand use experience with this species that I can find.

_Rowan: Also called mountain ash (but unrelated to the common ash) this tree produces a decent firewood._

_Rowan: A good heat and reasonably slow burn. Also known as Mountain Ash._

_Not an ash but related to the Rose family_

_Mostly deciduous trees. However, Eucalyptus regnans, which is sometimes called Mountain Ash, is an evergreen tree_

_2) "Mountain Ash is a name used for several unrelated trees. It may refer to:
- Eucalyptus regnans, the tallest of all flowering plants
- Fraxinus texensis, an ash tree species in Texas
- Trees in the genus Sorbus in North America (mainly U.S.A.)
- In Ireland and Britain it is used exclusively for Sorbus aucuparia which is also commonly known as Rowan"_

*Sorbus subgenus Sorbus* (genus _Sorbus_ s.s.), commonly known as the *rowan* (primarily in the UK) or *mountain-ash* (in both North America and the UK), with compound leaves usually hairless or thinly hairy below; fruit carpels not fused; type species _Sorbus aucuparia_ (European rowan). Distribution: cool-temperate Northern Hemisphere. (Genus _Sorbus_ s.s.)

I'm calling BS here.

Anyhow.. any advice or first hand experience would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## woodcutter (Mar 4, 2014)

No experience with Mountain Ash but I burn a lot of White and Black ash. The ash leaves a completely burned ash. The is no small pieces of lump coal. I can't think of any reason it would not burn if it was dry. As long it is not poisonous?


----------



## cliffcarter (Mar 4, 2014)

Don't eat the berries. I don't know about using it as firewood, but my Grandfather thought it useless.


----------



## sqwib (Mar 4, 2014)

Woodcutter said:


> No experience with Mountain Ash but I burn a lot of White and Black ash. The ash leaves a completely burned ash. The is no small pieces of lump coal. I can't think of any reason it would not burn if it was dry. As long it is not poisonous?


It's in the rose family _(Rosaceae_) its not a true ash.


cliffcarter said:


> Don't eat the berries. I don't know about using it as firewood, but my Grandfather thought it useless.


The berries can be made into jams and stuff, although It doesn't matter because I wouldn't eat them anyway.

This is from a website I frequent, thought it was interesting.

_Rowan is another name for the European Mountain Ash. Mountain ashes around the world tend to fall into two groups. One group has berries that are usually processed into jelly or jams and are barely edible off the tree after frost if not after freezing a few times or a long stint in your freezer. Raw their quality is not great. The other group has been bred to be eaten raw and can also be made into various sweet products. So the fruit is edible but… You will read in some places that the seeds contain compounds which upon digestion release small amounts of cyanide. This is probably true.  The seeds of some 1,000 plants in the greater group (Rose) do have some cyanidic compounds. Processing (the breaking down of cell structures and letting enzymes go to work) and or cooking usually take care of that issue. Small amounts of raw fruit are considered tolerable and to my knowledge there are no bad cyanide-related reports about Mountain Ash fruit. Man probably discovered these fruit — and their necessary vitamin C — were edible in the winter time because they persist on the tree and taste better the older they get (which additionally might reduce the potential cyanide amount.) The berries also contain malic acid and parasorbic acid. Malic acid is what makes apples tart. Parasorbic acid can upset the tummy raw but cooking changes it to sorbic acid which is not a problem._


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 4, 2014)

Ash is a very hard Hardwood. Very hard to chainsaw carve, but I've made some nice kitchens with it. Also one of the best woods for Baseball bats.

Mountain Ash is a Softwood.

Bear


----------



## sqwib (Mar 4, 2014)

Bearcarver said:


> Ash is a very hard Hardwood. Very hard to chainsaw carve, but I've made some nice kitchens with it. Also one of the best woods for Baseball bats.
> 
> Mountain Ash is a Softwood.
> 
> Bear


I have used a ton of ash for my pit.













20100925051.jpg



__ sqwib
__ Mar 4, 2014






Softwood...Very interesting...

Another thing that blows my mind is that Balsa is a Hardwood.


----------



## maple sticks (Mar 4, 2014)

"Another thing that blows my mind is that Balsa is a Hardwood"

Not sure about that. Do you have a link?


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 4, 2014)

SQWIB said:


> I have used a ton of ash for my pit.
> 
> Softwood...Very interesting...
> 
> Another thing that blows my mind is that Balsa is a Hardwood.


Yeah, it's strange, but it goes by what type of tree it is, not how hard it actually is.

The difference is if it's one word or two words.

Poplar is a "Soft" wood, but it is a "Hardwood".

Same thing with Balsa.

I made kitchens with Oak, Maple, Cherry, Hickory, Ash, Birch, etc.  I always refused to use Pine for kitchens.

However if they wanted a "Paint-grade" or "Laminated" kitchen, I would use Poplar, because it was a pleasure to work with, and very few knots, because the trees first limbs are usually way up there.

Bear


----------



## diggingdogfarm (Mar 4, 2014)

SQWIB,
Mountain ash is a hard hardwood.
Not the best firewood, but it'll burn just fine.



~Martin


----------



## maple sticks (Mar 4, 2014)

Yep, SQWIB balsa is a hard wood.

As it turns out, a hardwood is not necessarily a harder material (more dense) and a softwood is not necessarily a softer material (less dense). For example, *balsa wood* is one of the lightest, least dense woods there is, and it's considered a hardwood.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/question598.htm


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 4, 2014)

Mountain Ash isn't used for Tool handles or Baseball bats.
That would be good old plain "Ash", which is a very hard Hardwood. Very hard to chainsaw carve!!!
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	






*Below is Mountain Ash:*

Trunk ---------short, slender
Branches----- spreading
Bark ----------thin and smooth.
Bud Scales--- hairless and sticky.
*Wood ---------pale brown, soft, and weak.*
Roots--------- fibrous

Bear


----------



## diggingdogfarm (Mar 4, 2014)

SQUIB,

Here's the Janka hardness of some common hardwoods, as you can see, mountain ash has nearly the same hardness as red oak, beech and white ash.

Shagbark Hickory: 1,880 lbf 
Black Locust: 1,700 lbf 
Hard Maple: 1,450 lbf
White Oak:1,350 lbf
White Ash: 1,320 lbf 
Beech: 1,300 lbf
Red Oak: 1,220 lbf
*Mountain Ash (Rowan): 1,210 lbf*
Black Cherry: 950 lbf 
White Birch: 910 lbf
Elm: 830 lbf
Poplar: 540 lbf 
Basswood: 410 lbf
Balsa: 90 lbf



~Martin


----------



## Bearcarver (Mar 4, 2014)

Must be different Mountain Ash Trees.

I was talking about the "American" Mountain Ash  (Sorbus):

[h1]_Sorbus americana_[/h1][h2]American Mountain Ash[/h2]





[h5]American Mountain Ash, BWCAW
Photo [emoji]169[/emoji] by Earl J.S. Rook[/h5][h3]Flora, fauna, earth, and sky...
The natural history of the northwoods[/h3] 

[h3]Name:[/h3]
_Sorbus_, from the Latin name for _Sorbus domestica_, the common European Mountain Ash or "Service Tree"
_americana_, from the Latin, "of America"
Common Name from its North American distribution and the similarity of its compound leaves to those of the true Ash (_Fraxinus_  spp).
Other common names include Dogberry, Small Fruited Mountain Ash, Roundwood, Missey-mossey,_cormier_  (Qué)
[h3]Taxonomy:[/h3]
Kingdom _Plantae_, the Plants
Division _Magnoliophyta_, the Angiosperms (flowering plants)
Class _Magnoliopsida_, the Dicotyledons
Subclass _Rosidae_, the Roses
Order _Rosales_, the Roses
Family _Rosaceae_, the Roses; with _Amelanchier_  (Juneberries), _Aronia_(Chokeberries), _Crataegus_  (Hawthorns), _Malus_  (Apples), _Physocarpus_(Ninebark), _Potentilla_  (Cinquefoils), _Prunus_  (Cherries & Plums), _Rubus_(Blackberries, Dewberries, and Raspberries), and _Spiraea_  (Spirea)
Genus _Sorbus_, the Mountain Ash





Taxonomic Serial Number: 25319
Also known as _Pyrus americana, Pyrus microcarpa_
Hybridizes naturally with Black Chokeberry (_Pyrus melanocarpa_)
[h3]Description:[/h3]
*Leaves*  alternate, compound, 13"-17" long, tapered, finely toothed leaflets. The leaflets are 2-4 inches long, 5/8-1 inch wide, and without hairs.
*Stem*
*Trunk*  short, slender
*Branches*  spreading
*Bark*  thin and smooth.
*Bud Scales*  hairless and sticky.
*Wood*  pale brown, soft, and weak.  *<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*

*Roots*  fibrous
*Flowers*  small, creamy-white,and borne in cymes.
*Fruit*  bright red, berry-like, about ¼" in diameter, remaining on the tree late into the winter.
*Seed*
A native, deciduous shrub or small tree with a short trunk, slender, spreading branches, and a narrow, open round-topped crown; in closed canopies a longer trunk, with the lower portions branch-free.
*Height *10'-30' with an average diameter of 4"-10"
Tends to be slow growing and short-lived in the wild.
[h3]Identification:[/h3]
Identifiable as a Mountain Ash by the toothed compound leaves.
Distinguished from the only other North Woods trees with compound leaves, the true Ash, by the toothed leaf edges. Green Ash (_Fraxinus pennsylvanica_) and Black Ash (_Fraxinus nigra_) have smooth leaf edges.
Distinguished from the very similar Northern Mountain Ash (_Sorbus decora_) by:
Lateral leaflets *averaging*  more than 3 times as long as wide, an hairy beneath.
Slightly smaller fruits which are bright red rather than orange/red.

*Field Marks*
Toothed, compound leaves
Bright red berries in fall


----------



## sqwib (Mar 7, 2014)

I'm going to tell my brother to keep it. .I can use it for the firepit, chimenea or fuel for the stickburner when foiling, then Ill experiment later with using it on the GOSM as a smoking wood.


----------



## bigwheel (Mar 8, 2014)

I can't read all this stuff but a nice fellow gave me a big load of regular old everyday Ash one time. It did not take it long to age..had good heat production..maybe slightly less than oak but did not seem by much...just about a neutral smell to the smoke.  Made a great base fire for more aromatic upper layers.  Not a good coals producer as think was previously mentioned. Put a person in mind of hackberry sorta. It operates the same way but prob makes more coals. Total zero aroma for either one.  Or so it appeared to the untrained eye..lol.


----------

