# No Smoke Flavor



## andycaree (Nov 13, 2020)

Hello all. So I just got the 5 x 8 Amaze N smoker tray for my MES 30 electric smoker. I had no problem getting the pellets to light and stay lit and I believe have adequate airflow throughout the smoker because the pellets stayed lit the whole time. I just did a 20 hour pork butt and had consistent smoke billowing out for 15 hours of the cook time. Problem is, there is absolutely zero smoke flavor in my meat. The only flavor was from the rub I put on it. The pellets I used were the Pitmasters Choice that came with the amazing smoker tray. Any thoughts?


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## dernektambura (Nov 13, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Hello all. So I just got the 5 x 8 Amaze N smoker tray for my MES 30 electric smoker. I had no problem getting the pellets to light and stay lit and I believe have adequate airflow throughout the smoker because the pellets stayed lit the whole time. I just did a 20 hour pork butt and had consistent smoke billowing out for 15 hours of the cook time. Problem is, there is absolutely zero smoke flavor in my meat. The only flavor was from the rub I put on it. The pellets I used were the Pitmasters Choice that came with the amazing smoker tray. Any thoughts?


You should taste smoke.... how's your Covid... they say taste is one of the first to go if you snort virus...


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## andycaree (Nov 13, 2020)

dernektambura said:


> You should taste smoke.... how's your Covid... they say taste is one of the first to go if you snort virus...


Ha, Covid negative. Tasted the rub on the bark just fine.


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## indaswamp (Nov 13, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Hello all. So I just got the 5 x 8 Amaze N smoker tray for my MES 30 electric smoker. I had no problem getting the pellets to light and stay lit and I believe have adequate airflow throughout the smoker because the pellets stayed lit the whole time. I just did a 20 hour pork butt and had consistent smoke billowing out for 15 hours of the cook time. Problem is, there is absolutely zero smoke flavor in my meat. The only flavor was from the rub I put on it. The pellets I used were the Pitmasters Choice that came with the amazing smoker tray. Any thoughts?


What wood pellets did you use? What flavor of wood?

The smoke flavor is only going to be on the outside layer of meat. If you pull the pork butt and shred it, mix the outer layer of bark in with the inner meat and this will distribute both the seasoning and the smoke flavor.


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## andycaree (Nov 14, 2020)

indaswamp said:


> What wood pellets did you use? What flavor of wood?
> 
> The smoke flavor is only going to be on the outside layer of meat. If you pull the pork butt and shred it, mix the outer layer of bark in with the inner meat and this will distribute both the seasoning and the smoke flavor.
> [/
> ...


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## Inscrutable (Nov 14, 2020)

Were you spending a lot of time around the smoker? That can desensitize you ... beyond personal preferences, have heard more than once why the cook thinks not any smoke flavor, yet the family does - or even complains too strong. Has anyone else tasted and has the same opinion?


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## andycaree (Nov 14, 2020)

Inscrutable said:


> Were you spending a lot of time around the smoker? That can desensitize you ... beyond personal preferences, have heard more than once why the cook thinks not any smoke flavor, yet the family does - or even complains too strong. Has anyone else tasted and has the same opinion?


I was using the Pitmasters Choice pellets that came with the tray. Unfortunately my guests that ate with me couldn’t taste any smoke either, just the rub that was in the bark.


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## daveomak (Nov 14, 2020)

If you were hot smoking the meat while adding smoke, say above 225F, the melting fat will hinder smoke adsorption...


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## andycaree (Nov 14, 2020)

daveomak said:


> If you were hot smoking the meat while adding smoke, say above 225F, the melting fat will hinder smoke adsorption...


Wow. I was smoking at 235 (I think) and burning pellets the whole time.


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## GaryHibbert (Nov 14, 2020)

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, Andy.  I have a MES 30 with the AMNPS and get lots of smoke flavor with all types of pellets.  My only suggestion would be to try a stronger wood, like hickory, and see if that makes any improvement.
Gary


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## daveomak (Nov 15, 2020)

.............


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## andycaree (Nov 15, 2020)

daveomak said:


> View attachment 470936
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve seen that Todd mentioned not putting any liquid in the water pan as the inside of the smoker will become a sauna. I had a bunch of apple juice in a foil pan at the top of my smoker, and again had zero smoke flavor on my meat. Can the liquid affect smoke absorption into the meat?


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## andycaree (Nov 15, 2020)

GaryHibbert said:


> Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, Andy.  I have a MES 30 with the AMNPS and get lots of smoke flavor with all types of pellets.  My only suggestion would be to try a stronger wood, like hickory, and see if that makes any improvement.
> Gary


Do you use any liquid in your water pan? What temp do you smoke at? Where do you put your amnps?


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Hello all. So I just got the 5 x 8 Amaze N smoker tray for my MES 30 electric smoker. I had no problem getting the pellets to light and stay lit and I believe have adequate airflow throughout the smoker because the pellets stayed lit the whole time. I just did a 20 hour pork butt and had consistent smoke billowing out for 15 hours of the cook time. Problem is, there is absolutely zero smoke flavor in my meat. The only flavor was from the rub I put on it. The pellets I used were the Pitmasters Choice that came with the amazing smoker tray. Any thoughts?




Just saw this---Sorry I'm late!
If your AMNPS is smoking good, and not much Smoke Flavor, Try Hickory. It's almost all I ever use, because I like extra smoke flavor.
Don't put any water, Beer, Apple Juice, or any other liquid in any MES Gen #1, #2, or #2.5.  Those units are so well insulated they are already holding too much Humidity inside---No sense adding more of that Problem. And you won't get any flavor from any juice you add to the Water Pan.
Just cover the Pan with Foil, and put it in place.

Bear


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## andycaree (Nov 16, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> Just saw this---Sorry I'm late!
> If your AMNPS is smoking good, and not much Smoke Flavor, Try Hickory. It's almost all I ever use, because I like extra smoke flavor.
> Don't put any water, Beer, Apple Juice, or any other liquid in any MES Gen #1, #2, or #2.5.  Those units are so well insulated they are already holding too much Humidity inside---No sense adding more of that Problem. And you won't get any flavor from any juice you add to the Water Pan.
> Just cover the Pan with Foil, and put it in place.
> ...


Thanks. Will humidity affect smoke absorption?


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Do you use any liquid in your water pan? What temp do you smoke at? Where do you put your amnps?




It depends on which MES you have.
The Gen #1 best place for the AMNPS is on the support rods in the bottom, left of the chip burner.

Gen #2.5 is best on the bottom Rack all the way to the right, with the dumper pulled out about 2".

Never put water or any other liquid in an MES.

Temp depends on what you're smoking.---Check Below:
Just click on "Bear's Step by Steps".

Bear


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Thanks. Will humidity affect smoke absorption?




Probably, but it's hard to tell, because there is already too much Humidity in an MES, without adding any more.

Bear


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## andycaree (Nov 16, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> It depends on which MES you have.
> The Gen #1 best place for the AMNPS is on the support rods in the bottom, left of the chip burner.
> 
> Gen #2.5 is best on the bottom Rack all the way to the right, with the dumper pulled out about 2".
> ...


You may have answered this and I missed it. I saw what you said about not adding liquid, but aside from weaker strength pellets that I used (compared to hickory), could the liquid that I had in there affect smoke absorption?


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> You may have answered this and I missed it. I saw what you said about not adding liquid, but aside from weaker strength pellets that I used (compared to hickory), could the liquid that I had in there affect smoke absorption?




My answer was:
*Probably*, but it's hard to tell, because there is already too much Humidity in an MES, without adding any more.
However on second thought, I'm sure it would affect it.

Bear


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## andycaree (Nov 16, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> My answer was:
> *Probably*, but it's hard to tell, because there is already too much Humidity in an MES, without adding any more.
> However on second thought, I'm sure it would affect it.
> 
> Bear


Thanks for the advice


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## GaryHibbert (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Do you use any liquid in your water pan? What temp do you smoke at? Where do you put your amnps?



Do you use any liquid in your water pan     No,  A MES is so airtight that it produces enough moisture just from cooking.  I filled my water pan with sand and foiled it over to keep the sand clean.  It acts as a heat sink and helps regulate temps.
What temp do you smoke at?   Unless I'm cold smoking, I smoke everything at 240ish.  
Where do you put your amnps?  I put my AMNPS in a home made mailbox mod.  Although lots of people have no problem, I just couldn't keep it lit inside the ME--not enough oxygen/air flow, even though the exhaust vent is ALWAYS kept wide open.  It also makes cold smoking easier as there is no heat transfer from the burning pellets.  I've been doing it this way for years.
Hope this helps Andy.  Any other questions, just ask.
Gary


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## tallbm (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Hello all. So I just got the 5 x 8 Amaze N smoker tray for my MES 30 electric smoker. I had no problem getting the pellets to light and stay lit and I believe have adequate airflow throughout the smoker because the pellets stayed lit the whole time. I just did a 20 hour pork butt and had consistent smoke billowing out for 15 hours of the cook time. Problem is, there is absolutely zero smoke flavor in my meat. The only flavor was from the rub I put on it. The pellets I used were the Pitmasters Choice that came with the amazing smoker tray. Any thoughts?



Hi there and welcome!

This may sound like a silly question but was the AMNPS below the rack where the meat was sitting?

If you put the AMNPS on a rack above the meat then the smoke may have just went mostly up and out.  I mean there should still be circulation but smoking coming from below and filling the smoker but maybe the smoke production was so light it didnt get to circulate too much before leaving.

I once smoked ribs with jalapenos and chilitepin peppers above the ribs and the ribs got zero heat added to them.  HOWEVER, the chilitepin (quite hot compared to a jalapeno) were on the rack UNDER the Jalapenos and the chilitepin oils carried up with smoke and moistures and made the jalapenos freakin unbelievably hot!!!

So this makes me think that the smoke form your AMNPS may have behaved the same way simply moving upwards and not circulating much around the inside :)


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## andycaree (Nov 16, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Hi there and welcome!
> 
> This may sound like a silly question but was the AMNPS below the rack where the meat was sitting?
> 
> ...


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## andycaree (Nov 16, 2020)

Here is a pic of the setup. The bag of pellets is standing in for the pork butt. Below them is just a drip tray so nothing would end up on the pellets. The tray in the top rack was full of apple juice.


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## Inscrutable (Nov 16, 2020)

GaryHibbert said:


> Although lots of people have no problem, I just couldn't keep it lit inside the ME--not enough oxygen/air flow, even though the exhaust vent is ALWAYS kept wide open.



Following, unfortunately no help to the OP.
Put a spiral ham and a boneless Turkey breast in my PB electric Saturday ... got busy and distracted and tray went out early. No double smoked ham, or smoked Turkey at all 
Think I’m heading for the same problem as you Gary.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

Inscrutable said:


> Following, unfortunately no help to the OP.
> Put a spiral ham and a boneless Turkey breast in my PB electric Saturday ... got busy and distracted and tray went out early. No double smoked ham, or smoked Turkey at all
> Think I’m heading for the same problem as you Gary.




What's your elevation there??

Bear


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## Inscrutable (Nov 16, 2020)

About 11 if I lay down


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

Inscrutable said:


> About 11 if I lay down




Hmmm, At 11 feet ASL, you shouldn't have a problem keeping your AMNPS going.
However you should be a good swimmer.

Bear


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## Inscrutable (Nov 16, 2020)

If we stayed put during Florence, we would have needed to be ... know others who swam out of their house here seeking safety.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

Inscrutable said:


> If we stayed put during Florence, we would have needed to be ... know others who swam out of their house here seeking safety.




Yup---We watched the Movie  "Crawl", where big Gators were under the house )in the crawlspace) during a Hurricane, and a Girl had to save her injured Father.  Scary!!!

Bear


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## gmc2003 (Nov 16, 2020)

Seeing that your from NC. I suspect that your used to smoked food from different restaurants or friends. The Mes isn't going to compete with a stick burner for true smoke flavor. One other thought is to lite both ends of the tray and see if that helps.

Chris

Edit - O for two. Sorry I read the wrong profile.


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## Bearcarver (Nov 16, 2020)

gmc2003 said:


> Seeing that your from NC. I suspect that your used to smoked food from different restaurants or friends. The Mes isn't going to compete with a stick burner for true smoke flavor. One other thought is to lite both ends of the tray and see if that helps.
> 
> Chris




That's the only way to get Bitter Creosote type smoke from an AMNPS.
I tried it one time, about 8 years ago, and I put the second one out after about 2 hours!!! I recommend against it.

Bear


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## gmc2003 (Nov 16, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> That's the only way to get Bitter Creosote type smoke from an AMNPS.
> I tried it one time, about 8 years ago, and I put the second one out after about 2 hours!!! I recommend against it.
> 
> Bear



Couldn't agree more Bear, unless his Mes leaks like a sieve. It does look well used in the pic. Just tossing out another thought.



 Inscrutable
 I doubt that the tray of apple juice is producing a lot of moisture sitting on the top shelf, but you probably will end up with a few glasses of smokey apple juice.

Sorry wrong name tagged - edited.

Chris


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## tallbm (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> Here is a pic of the setup. The bag of pellets is standing in for the pork butt. Below them is just a drip tray so nothing would end up on the pellets. The tray in the top rack was full of apple juice.
> View attachment 471182



Hmmm that should have worked.

Is there any chance that what was billowing out was steam and that your pellets burned up quickly since they were sitting over the element area and may have burned up really fast and all at once? Then all you saw coming out was actually just steam.  Steam and smoke look similar in many cases from a smoker.

If that isn't a possibility at all I would switch pellet brands and try 100% hickory and see what happens in that case.

I know that Pitboss Competition Blend is quite mild so if I smoke anything less than 5 hours with it I can light both ends of the AMNPS and it works well. 
These days I doctor up Pitboss CB by mixing more 100% hickory in it so I end up with about 65% hickory total.  That does the trick for me without having to light both ends of the AMNPS.
You may just have a weak pellet blend for a pork butt.


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## andycaree (Nov 16, 2020)

gmc2003 said:


> Couldn't agree more Bear, unless his Mes leaks like a sieve. It does look well used in the pic. Just tossing out another thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





gmc2003 said:


> Couldn't agree more Bear, unless his Mes leaks like a sieve. It does look well used in the pic. Just tossing out another thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I originally bought the amnps because I was tired of adding chips every 30-45 minutes. I read on here that it would be a good alternative that would provide good smoke flavor. Have any of you just used an old coffee can with a couple charcoal briquettes at the bottom  and wood chunks? I’d think you should be able to get a few hours of smoke with a set up like that.


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## gmc2003 (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> I originally bought the amnps because I was tired of adding chips every 30-45 minutes. I read on here that it would be a good alternative that would provide good smoke flavor. Have any of you just used an old coffee can with a couple charcoal briquettes at the bottom  and wood chunks? I’d think you should be able to get a few hours of smoke with a set up like that.



Sorry I can't offer any advice one way or the other on this one. I'm strictly a charcoal burner. I only use my tray for cold smoking. 

Chris


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## tallbm (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> I originally bought the amnps because I was tired of adding chips every 30-45 minutes. I read on here that it would be a good alternative that would provide good smoke flavor. Have any of you just used an old coffee can with a couple charcoal briquettes at the bottom  and wood chunks? I’d think you should be able to get a few hours of smoke with a set up like that.



I have not.  The only issue you may run into is air flow.  The charcoal may go out too fast with a limited amount of airflow.
With your AMNPS you can definitely kick up smoke strength in 2 ways:

1. Stronger wood pellet (Hickory or Mesquite)
2. Light both ends of the AMNPS 

Either one or both together should give you as much smoke flavor than you can handle :)


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## andycaree (Nov 16, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Hmmm that should have worked.
> 
> Is there any chance that what was billowing out was steam and that your pellets burned up quickly since they were sitting over the element area and may have burned up really fast and all at once? Then all you saw coming out was actually just steam.  Steam and smoke look similar in many cases from a smoker.
> 
> ...


You’re right, it could’ve been steam. But every hour or so I would quickly pop up in the door (I would get a face full of smoke)  the pellets were burning slowly and consistently. So I don’t think they went up to fast. With a better location for the maze be in the lower left side opposite the heating element?


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## tallbm (Nov 16, 2020)

andycaree said:


> You’re right, it could’ve been steam. But every hour or so I would quickly pop up in the door (I would get a face full of smoke)  the pellets were burning slowly and consistently. So I don’t think they went up to fast. With a better location for the maze be in the lower left side opposite the heating element?



I think it would be BUT i dont think it fits there in an MES30, might only fit there in MES40


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## Bearcarver (Nov 17, 2020)

andycaree said:


> You’re right, it could’ve been steam. But every hour or so I would quickly pop up in the door (I would get a face full of smoke)  the pellets were burning slowly and consistently. So I don’t think they went up to fast. With a better location for the maze be in the lower left side opposite the heating element?




It's really hard to tell Smoke from steam exiting an MES, especially in the Winter.
Ive found with my Window in door MES, I just look through the window, and I can see the Smoke, and if I can't see the back wall through the Smoke, it's too much smoke.
If your MES doesn't have a Window, you can look down the Top Vent Hole, and see how much "Real Smoke" is in there. The Steam won't appear until it hits the outside air when it leaves the Smoker through the vent.

Bear


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## Murray (Nov 17, 2020)

tallbm said:


> Hmmm that should have worked.
> 
> Is there any chance that what was billowing out was steam and that your pellets burned up quickly since they were sitting over the element area and may have burned up really fast and all at once? Then all you saw coming out was actually just steam.  Steam and smoke look similar in many cases from a smoker.
> 
> ...


I agree with the Pitboss CB blend is quite mild. I find I need to add smoke for twice as long to get any smoke flavour out of it compared to Apple which is not that strong.  As mentioned above I would try a different type and or different manufacturer’s  pellets.


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## zwiller (Nov 18, 2020)

I don't see it mentioned but you completely filled the tray and all the pellets were used up, right?  I average 12hrs per tray so for 15hrs, the tray should be total ash.  While I agree PM blend is milder, there is hickory in there as well as maple and should be noticeable but maybe not as strong as 100% hickory.  As was already said, if it was served same day and everyone hanging out near the smoker, they could very well be nose blind too.  I never eat same day I smoke...  Only other thing I can think of is that some people are accustomed to charcoal flavor in smoked food (I am not) and if that is the case, there are charcoal wood blend pellets that might help but have not used them myself.  Hang in there, you'll figure it out!


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## andycaree (Nov 18, 2020)

zwiller said:


> I don't see it mentioned but you completely filled the tray and all the pellets were used up, right?  I average 12hrs per tray so for 15hrs, the tray should be total ash.  While I agree PM blend is milder, there is hickory in there as well as maple and should be noticeable but maybe not as strong as 100% hickory.  As was already said, if it was served same day and everyone hanging out near the smoker, they could very well be nose blind too.  I never eat same day I smoke...  Only other thing I can think of is that some people are accustomed to charcoal flavor in smoked food (I am not) and if that is the case, there are charcoal wood blend pellets that might help but have not used them myself.  Hang in there, you'll figure it out!


Thanks for the input. My tray was filled all the way and if I remember correctly I probably got six or seven our hours out of a full tray. When it was done all the pallets were burned up.


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## chopsaw (Nov 18, 2020)

Bearcarver said:


> It's really hard to tell Smoke from steam exiting an MES, especially in the Winter.


Yup . I'll hold my hand over the exhaust stack , and see how much moister forms .



gmc2003 said:


> . It does look well used in the pic.


I was wondering what well used looked like .


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## gmc2003 (Nov 18, 2020)

chopsaw said:


> I was wondering what well used looked like .



The smoker in post #24 has seen more then a few grocery items sitting on it's racks. 

Chris


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