# Curing chamber high humidity



## stackhsc (Feb 17, 2021)

Hey all. Thanks for the help so far.  

So I decided to build a small curing chamber. Picked up a nice mini fridge and a wired in a temp and humidity controller. 

I’ve got the temperature dialed in to where I want. The humidity however keeps climbing into the high 90 and that’s with out a humidifier. 

I could wire a small fan in it to vent it but I was under the understanding that most times they needed more moisture added as opposed to removed.  

For now I just grabbed a diy style moisture remover that uses calcium chloride passively. And am burping the fridge a few times a day to lower it. 

So what’s the best path to take from here.


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## ChuxPick (Feb 17, 2021)

I use a mini fridge and I control it  using a inkbird temperature  controller to regulate the temp, it turns the power on or off as needed, I control the humidity with a inkbird humidity controller attached to the humidity controller is a humidifier on one side and a dehumidifier on the other side which regulates the humidity . Also to circulate the air a few times a day, I have an aquarium aerator attached to a timer. This setup works very well for me.


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## indaswamp (Feb 17, 2021)

You need a dehumidifier. It must be analog so when you flip the power "ON" it will stay on so that the controller can hi-jack control of the unit. Best one IMO is the evi-dry 1100.
With new product, it is common for the humidity to spike to 90%RH first 2-3 days. I try to keep the humidity between 80-85%RH after that. If it gets below 80%, you will have some dry rim to deal with...and you do not want that with salamis thicker than 100mm or it could cause some problems with drying.

High humidity will be the issue starting new product, then things will even out. Towards the end of drying, you will need the humidifier to keep the moisture level up.

Is that a frost free unit or not???


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## indaswamp (Feb 17, 2021)

What do you have hanging in your chamber? And what kind of casing did you use?


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## stackhsc (Feb 17, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> You need a dehumidifier. It must be analog so when you flip the power "ON" it will stay on so that the controller can hi-jack control of the unit. Best one IMO is the evi-dry 1100.
> With new product, it is common for the humidity to spike to 90%RH first 2-3 days. I try to keep the humidity between 80-85%RH after that. If it gets below 80%, you will have some dry rim to deal with...and you do not want that with salamis thicker than 100mm or it could cause some problems with drying.
> 
> High humidity will be the issue starting new product, then things will even out. Towards the end of drying, you will need the humidifier to keep the moisture level up.
> ...



It’s a fridge only. So no frost.


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## stackhsc (Feb 17, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> What do you have hanging in your chamber? And what kind of casing did you use?



It’s a small /thin pancetta that’s new. Done two days ago and a piece of centerloin and some braesola. The last two are wrapped in cheese cloth and had hung outside in the open air for a week . The other is just the meat.  
The loin is 630 g. The braesola 860 and the pancetta  was 800 g


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## ChuxPick (Feb 17, 2021)

The last projects I finished in mine were a bresaola, and lonzino, both came out great. Neither one lasted long, my son kept stoping over for some.


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## indaswamp (Feb 17, 2021)

stackhsc said:


> It’s a fridge only. So no frost.


I don't follow your answer...
A refrigerator is either a frost free type or not. By frost free...it has a fan which blows air over the evaporator coil. when the evaporator coil has too much ice build up on it, it goes through a defrost period where it melts the ice on the coils. This is the preferred model style for a curing chamber because when the refrigerator goes into the cooling cycle, it will pull moisture from the air and drop the RH%.


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## indaswamp (Feb 17, 2021)

stackhsc said:


> It’s a small /thin pancetta that’s new. Done two days ago and a piece of centerloin and some braesola. The last two are wrapped in cheese cloth and had hung outside in the open air for a week . The other is just the meat.
> The loin is 630 g. The braesola 860 and the pancetta  was 800 g


Why the cheese cloth wrap? That is going to be difficult to remove when it dries. If the cheese cloth is being used as a casing, it will not offer much protection. Typically, a membrane of some sort, either natural or synthetic, is used which will allow moisture to escape, and give a disposable surface which will preserve the meat. 

Also-what was the humidity when you hung "out in the open air"?


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## indaswamp (Feb 17, 2021)

What size is the refrigerator? Small Dorm style refrigerators will be difficult to control the humidity. This is true for all small spaces...


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## indaswamp (Feb 17, 2021)

stackhsc said:


> The last two are wrapped in cheese cloth and had hung outside in the open air for a week . The other is just the meat.


Others may have a different opinion, but I do not advise dry curing large muscles without some sort of casing. The casing protects the surface of the meat from drying out too much. It acts as a sacrificial barrier which will be peeled off and discarded. It gives the mold a surface to grow on which can easily be removed. It protects the meat from bad molds that can sink roots into the meat, they sink into the casing instead (black mold when caught early can be wiped off the casing with vinegar, it must be cut off bare meat). It keeps oxygen from oxidizing the fat and making it turn rancid; also keeps light off the fat (with mold growth) which will turn it rancid as well. The casing helps keep the meat in a uniform shape for uniform drying. It keeps the truss string from digging into the meat making it easier to remove.

I'm sure there are other benefits I am not thinking of right now.....

As far as options, there are natural...i.e. bung caps, bladders, etc.
For synthetic, collagen both sheets and casings of various sizes.


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## stackhsc (Feb 18, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> What size is the refrigerator? Small Dorm style refrigerators will be difficult to control the humidity. This is true for all small spaces...



It’s a small dorm type. I said  no freezer as I thought that meant frost free because there is no freezer in it. The cooling is passive through the back wall but I have noticed condensation there.  There is not built in fan.


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## stackhsc (Feb 18, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> Others may have a different opinion, but I do not advise dry curing large muscles without some sort of casing. The casing protects the surface of the meat from drying out too much. It acts as a sacrificial barrier which will be peeled off and discarded. It gives the mold a surface to grow on which can easily be removed. It protects the meat from bad molds that can sink roots into the meat, they sink into the casing instead (black mold when caught early can be wiped off the casing with vinegar, it must be cut off bare meat). It keeps oxygen from oxidizing the fat and making it turn rancid; also keeps light off the fat (with mold growth) which will turn it rancid as well. The casing helps keep the meat in a uniform shape for uniform drying. It keeps the truss string from digging into the meat making it easier to remove.
> 
> I'm sure there are other benefits I am not thinking of right now.....
> 
> ...


Cheese cloth because I had seen folks had used it and I didn’t have collagen. That said the more I read I’m thinking probably not the best idea. 
What’s your thoughts, should I remove it and let it dry just as is?


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## stackhsc (Feb 18, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> Why the cheese cloth wrap? That is going to be difficult to remove when it dries. If the cheese cloth is being used as a casing, it will not offer much protection. Typically, a membrane of some sort, either natural or synthetic, is used which will allow moisture to escape, and give a disposable surface which will preserve the meat.
> 
> Also-what was the humidity when you hung "out in the open air"?



I’d say it was average of 70 and temp of 60f


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2021)

stackhsc said:


> It’s a small dorm type. I said no freezer as I thought that meant frost free because there is no freezer in it. The cooling is passive through the back wall but I have noticed condensation there. There is not built in fan.


You will be fighting high humidity in a non frost free refrigerator because of the condensation where the evaporator coils you mention are located. When the cooling cycle stops, all that condensation now slowly starts to evaporate and you get an RH% spike. Especially so in such a small space. I highly recommend buying an evi-dry 1100 dehumidifier for your set up. You need some way to remove the water that leaves the meat. The salt in a pan will not be enough.


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2021)

stackhsc said:


> Cheese cloth because I had seen folks had used it and I didn’t have collagen. That said the more I read I’m thinking probably not the best idea.
> What’s your thoughts, should I remove it and let it dry just as is?


I've never seen anyone use it on dry cured meats. I've seen it done on cheese, but that was with cheese cloth and lard. 
Were it me, yes I'd remove it. at least you will be able to see any bad molds that crop up, and won't have to deal with stuck cheese cloth on your cured meat. 
Then I would order some collagen sheets or find some casing of some kind.


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## stackhsc (Feb 18, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> You will be fighting high humidity in a non frost free refrigerator because of the condensation where the evaporator coils you mention are located. When the cooling cycle stops, all that condensation now slowly starts to evaporate and you get an RH% spike. Especially so in such a small space. I highly recommend buying an evi-dry 1100 dehumidifier for your set up. You need some way to remove the water that leaves the meat. The salt in a pan will not be enough.



Ok so the air is condensing on the back wall, lowering the humidity, then when the fridge turns off the water droplets evaporate causeing the humidity to raise.  
There is a drain at the bottom of the  back wall. What if I were to put a false wall maybe half an inch off back wall and wire a small fan to it. The fridge kicks in. Air in the fridge circulates down between the existing wall and the false wall. Water condenses but then can run down the back wall and out the drain?
Would that work?


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2021)

stackhsc said:


> Ok so the air is condensing on the back wall, lowering the humidity, then when the fridge turns off the water droplets evaporate causeing the humidity to raise.
> There is a drain at the bottom of the back wall. What if I were to put a false wall maybe half an inch off back wall and wire a small fan to it. The fridge kicks in. Air in the fridge circulates down between the existing wall and the false wall. Water condenses but then can run down the back wall and out the drain?
> Would that work?


The _water_ is condensing _out_ of the air...

A false wall would be a bad idea IMO. Humidity will spike >95%RH and you will have bad mold issues...especially bad would be red or black mold. 

Buy a humidifier. It's only like $40 bucks US. Consider it an investment, you have already come this far, would hate to see you lose product due to high humidity.


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## stackhsc (Feb 18, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> The _water_ is condensing _out_ of the air...
> 
> A false wall would be a bad idea IMO. Humidity will spike >95%RH and you will have bad mold issues...especially bad would be red or black mold.
> 
> Buy a humidifier. It's only like $40 bucks US. Consider it an investment, you have already come this far, would hate to see you lose product due to high humidity.


Yes. The water is condensing out of the air when the fridge runs, it reabsorbs into the air when it doesn’t. 
 The air would circulate between the false wall and the existing when the fridge runs. Kind of the same way a frost free works. When the condenser is off the fridge is off allowing this condensed water to make its way to the drain before being reabsorbed into the air in the fridge .


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2021)

The evap. coil gets so cold that ice forms on it. The ice will not spike the RH% like water condensate will. Frost free units have a defrost setting and every so often it kicks in and a small heater comes on and melts the ice. The melted ice drips down and out the drain. Any water left evaporates during the cooling cycle because of the fan, and some refreezes on the evap coil. The fan and ice is the key reason why a frost free unit will not have mold issues like the set up you are proposing. Without a fan to move the air, you will get an RH% spike.

You could try it, but watch it closely and check it often for bad mold. What material are you considering using? I suggest something that will not condense water so metal is out. I would not use wood either. HDPE would be a good choice, but the evi-dry would probably be cheaper.


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## stackhsc (Feb 18, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> The evap. coil gets so cold that ice forms on it. The ice will not spike the RH% like water condensate will. Frost free units have a defrost setting and every so often it kicks in and a small heater comes on and melts the ice. The melted ice drips down and out the drain. Any water left evaporates during the cooling cycle because of the fan, and some refreezes on the evap coil. The fan and ice is the key reason why a frost free unit will not have mold issues like the set up you are proposing. Without a fan to move the air, you will get an RH% spike.
> 
> You could try it, but watch it closely and check it often for bad mold. What material are you considering using? I suggest something that will not condense water so metal is out. I would not use wood either. HDPE would be a good choice, but the evi-dry would probably be cheaper.



I have a fan that moves the air through that space when the compressor is on. I already jerry rigged it to try it lol. I used an un-used  corrugated plastic for sale sign. I’ll let it go for a few days but suspect I will buy a dehumidifier. This will , at a minimum, have been a cool experiment and a good learning opportunity for me.  While I was installing this the humidity was freezing to the back wall. Though I suspect it will not stay frozen. I’ll take a look in the morning once it’s stabilized.


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## indaswamp (Feb 18, 2021)

You added a fan?


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## stackhsc (Feb 19, 2021)

indaswamp said:


> You added a fan?


Yes. A 12 volt computer fan, wired into my controller so it comes on when the compressor comes on similar to a fridge.  I had the old computer fan  and 12 volt adapter kicking around. So basically it was a net zero cost other than time. So far it has dropped the humidity some but it’s higher than I’d like still. Ordered a dehumidifier last night. As I suspect I’ll need/want it. But this has been interesting and fun so far.


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## stackhsc (Feb 19, 2021)

Here. It’s highly jerry rigged lol


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