Cook Time & Insulation?

[jdrouin]

Hi Everyone,

I've smoked pork shoulder twice now, and each time it has taken over 13 hours at consistent 220-235F chamber temps, in 85-95F weather, to bring the internal meat temp up to 190F (the temp I've been reading is ideal for removing from the cooker). The first shoulder was 3.5 lbs, the second was 4.5 lbs. I've been told that it should normally take about 7-8 hours for a shoulder that size. I use a Redi-Check dual probe wireless thermometer that simultaneously monitors chamber temp and meat temp.

I don't mind spending a long time cooking, but am wondering if there's something I'm doing that is causing the meat to take that long to cook.

Could it perhaps be the quality of my smoker? I acquired an el-cheapo Brinkmann vertical charcoal smoker from Home Depot last summer, which is made of thin sheet metal. It is modified as follows:

• High temp felt around the door edges for better air seal.
• Replaced original coal pan with perforated grill topper, for better breathing.
• Replaced original water pan with 12x12x3 cake pan for greater water volume and longer time between refills.

Since it's made of thin sheet metal, which no doubt has poor heat mass, I wonder if I should insulate it. I thought of wrapping it with a welding blanket and/or using fire bricks inside to maintain heat.

But to clarify, I'm not having trouble maintaining chamber temps. Just wondering if maybe there's something about the convection properties of the smoker that are less than ideal.

Or maybe each cut of meat is different, and you just have to do what it needs?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Jeff

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Hi Everyone,

I've smoked pork shoulder twice now, and each time it has taken over 13 hours at consistent 220-235F chamber temps, in 85-95F weather, to bring the internal meat temp up to 190F (the temp I've been reading is ideal for removing from the cooker). The first shoulder was 3.5 lbs, the second was 4.5 lbs. I've been told that it should normally take about 7-8 hours for a shoulder that size. I use a Redi-Check dual probe wireless thermometer that simultaneously monitors chamber temp and meat temp.

I don't mind spending a long time cooking, but am wondering if there's something I'm doing that is causing the meat to take that long to cook.

Could it perhaps be the quality of my smoker? I acquired an el-cheapo Brinkmann vertical charcoal smoker from Home Depot last summer, which is made of thin sheet metal. It is modified as follows:

• High temp felt around the door edges for better air seal.
• Replaced original coal pan with perforated grill topper, for better breathing.

Does this mean you basically have an open bottom? If so, you'll burn through tons of charcoal trying to heat it, not to mention the added fire hazard from dropping hot cinders onto the ground. Also, for longer smokes, if you have to open the door to add fuel often, you're loosing heat and adding to the overall cooking time, just the same as with adding water. A charcoal basket of some sort, even if it's just a ring around the existing coal-grate will increase fuel capacity for longer burns between adding fuel.

• Replaced original water pan with 12x12x3 cake pan for greater water volume and longer time between refills.

More water = more fuel to heat the smoke chamber...the main purposes of having water in the smoke chamber is to reduce high-temp spikes, and aid in smoke reaction time with the meat.

Since it's made of thin sheet metal, which no doubt has poor heat mass, I wonder if I should insulate it. I thought of wrapping it with a welding blanket and/or using fire bricks inside to maintain heat.

More thermal mass = more fuel and time to reach stable temps. If you don't have large temp swings, this may be a drawback.

But to clarify, I'm not having trouble maintaining chamber temps. Just wondering if maybe there's something about the convection properties of the smoker that are less than ideal.

Or maybe each cut of meat is different, and you just have to do what it needs?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Jeff

No-foil smokes can add to cooking time by up to 40% in my experience. Foiling @ 160+ I/T can reduce cooking time a lot, but it comes at the cost of killing your bark. 13 hours for a 3.5 to 4.5lb butt may seem high, although I've had 8-9lb run over 25 hours @ 225-235* chamber temps. Each one does seem to develop a personality. Any changers in chamber temp, even just to add some hot coals or water, can really have an impact on the thermal absorption of the meat, so reducing chamber openings and keeping temps steady can help keep things moving along a bit more smoothly regarding internal temps, which is where it counts in the end when you're using probes.

BTW, I have a heavily modified Brinkmann Gourmet charcoal (3 yrs), so I have experienced a few issues, and experimented with a few fixes as well. If you want to try something different, just to see what it's like, ditch the water in the pan and add washed pea-gravel or play sand. Put a foil liner on top of the sand or gravel to catch drippings, and you can add a small amount of water in the liner if you like, for enhanced smoke reaction up front. The water will evaporate much more slowly than if it were heated directly above the fire, but it still adds some humidity during the initial few hours of smoking. Let the foil liner run dry on it's own...the bark will be killer, the internal natural moisture retention from the bark is better than you can ever imagine achieving with a wet smoke chamber alone. The mass of the gravel or sand will maintain reasonably stable temps, and you don't have to add water after start-up, just keep the fire where you need it to hold temps up.

I play the wet-to-dry (or wet only) smoke chamber game a lot since last spring, and it's the only way to go for me. If you're interested, PM me or reply here...I'll link you to some threads on how it's worked out for me...it's not just for butts either...pork or beef ribs, top round, etc. I use wet-to-dry or dry only smoke chamber for everything lately. The threads I wrote explain the process and how to bring it all together.

As for the long cooking times with butts, some can get pretty stubborn, regardless of the equipment and mods you've incorporated. The steps you take during smoking can reduce time somewhat, but again, maintaining stable chamber temps is the best thing you can do to keep it cooking at a steady pace.

EDIT: regarding insulation, it won't help you cook faster unless low chamber temps are an issue. It will help bring temps up a bit faster and help maintain temps in inclimate weather, as well as use less fuel to run at a given temp.

Eric

 

[jdrouin]

Sorry to be responding after so much time, but thanks all of you for your replies. Eric, I would love to see your posts about the wet-to-dry method with washed pea gravel / play sand in the water pan. I'm definitely going to try that.

In order to minimize heat dissipation and protect from inclement winter weather, I'm thinking of purchasing this welding blanket, which I'll cut and re-stitch with heavy-duty staples to make a tight-fitting jacket around my smoker (with holes for the intake and outlet vents, as well as the handles, so it can fit across the front doors):

http://www.netwelder.com/servlet/the-161/TILLMAN-596B--6'/Detail

Good idea? Bad idea? Anyone tried this before? Is it even possible to cut these things? It's some kind of fiberblass/vermiculite.

I figure with the welding blanket and maybe some heat bricks inside, it should maintain stable temperatures in cold weather and reduce fuel consumption and heat loss resulting from fiddling with the coal basket.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[jirodriguez]

Also you didn't mention... are you opening your smoker very often? Keep in mind every time you open your smoker to spritz, poke, prod, ect. you add 10 min. to your smoke - so don't open your smoker unless you absolutely have to. If your looking, you ain't cookin!

I use a similar welding blanket on my 22.5" WSM during cold weather smokes and it works great. I just wrap it around the smoker, then grab the ends of extra material and roll them together towards the smoker and fasten them with big spring clips (look like giant clothes pins - $2 or $3 bucks at your local hardware store). For the rolling method visualize a towel you fold in half, then roll the two edges together - your smoker would be inside the middle of the fold.

 

[jdrouin]

Thanks for the info about your use of the welding blanket, which is encouraging.

I only open the smoker if the fire needs prodding or more fuel, or if I have to add water to the pan. In the summer I could go more than 2 hours without having to do this, but in December it was more like every 45-60 minutes, which seriously added to the cook time.

So I'm planning on making the following mods to the smoker in order to retain heat and minimize opening:

* Welding blanket for reduced heat dissipation

* Heat bricks inside for heat retention

* Sand or washed pea gravel in the water pan

* Raise the water (sand/gravel) pan 6" to allow for a taller coal basket for longer burn times.

For the last bit, I plan to make a taller coal basket out of L brackets and wire mesh:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202024...toreId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=202024052#.URv8dOiSQjU

Right now I'm using a 3.5" deep wok topper as the coal basket. So if I can get that to 8" deep with my homemade one, it should get much longer burns.

I'm thinking the heat retention steps outlined above would allow me to maintain 200-225F cooking temps with the intake vents closed for a slower and longer burn.

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Sorry to be responding after so much time, but thanks all of you for your replies. Eric, I would love to see your posts about the wet-to-dry method with washed pea gravel / play sand in the water pan. I'm definitely going to try that.

In order to minimize heat dissipation and protect from inclement winter weather, I'm thinking of purchasing this welding blanket, which I'll cut and re-stitch with heavy-duty staples to make a tight-fitting jacket around my smoker (with holes for the intake and outlet vents, as well as the handles, so it can fit across the front doors):

http://www.netwelder.com/servlet/the-161/TILLMAN-596B--6'/Detail

Good idea? Bad idea? Anyone tried this before? Is it even possible to cut these things? It's some kind of fiberblass/vermiculite.

I figure with the welding blanket and maybe some heat bricks inside, it should maintain stable temperatures in cold weather and reduce fuel consumption and heat loss resulting from fiddling with the coal basket.

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff, here's what I've done with wet-to-dry (or dry only) smoke chamber in vertical smokers thus far. I tried to list them in order of completion, so you can start at the beginning and get a feel for the theory of the process, how it all started for me, and what it has led to so far (there's a lot more I want to do with this yet). Don't try to read all these at one sitting...trust me, it's a lot of info to digest. Take your time reading at least the first 2 or 3 of these, so you'll know how it built up to each successive smoke after wards. Each smoke taught me a trick or two to improve my next smoke, confirmed a few suspicions I had, etc, so it has built up to very good, repeatable results. Once you understand how it all works, it's easier to get a picture of how you can use these methods to your advantage. For the most part, lean trimmed meats finished to higher internal temps such as beef brisket, beef or pork shoulder cuts and ribs will benefit the most from this (the cuts that also benefit the most from low & slow cooking would seem to respond the most), but it certainly doesn't end there, as demonstrated later with other cuts. I still have not used this method with lean trimmed brisket flat or point cuts, but my experience so far indicates that it will do it justice.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...n-gourmet-w-dry-smoke-chamber-q-view-finished

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...mmed-butt-wet-dry-smoke-chamber-q-view-method

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...-wet-dry-smoke-chamber-humidity-q-view-method

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/127603/16lbs-lbrs-idahoes-beans-dry-smoke-chamber-q-view

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...chamber-cherry-rbp-rub-recipe-q-view-finished

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...hamber-cherry-balsamic-finishing-sauce-q-view

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...mber-christmas-dinner-a-lil-drool-view-for-ya

I think there's a couple more, but they may be slipping past my tired eyes tonight. Oh, I just remembered one that another SMF member (S2K9K aka Dave) wrote-up a while back as well, following the same basic concept:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124191/taking-my-pulled-pork-to-a-new-level

Enjoy!

Eric