Binders

[DougE]

Let's have a serious discussion about binders in sausage. What do they do and not do? If you use them, which ones do you prefer? Are the necessary if you have good protein extraction?

I think they have their place, but have made plenty of great sausage without them.

I have my opinions, but I would like to open this up for discussion.

 

[clifish]

Just starting to look into the same thing. Are they needed in say a uncured bratwurst? The non dairy milk proteins are a little high in carbs, could a soy whey protein powder be used or psyllium husk? (low carb stuff I already have on hand).

 

[DougE]

Are they needed in say a uncured bratwurst?

I wouldn't use a binder in anything unless it's cured and smoked, but that's me.

 

[clifish]

I wouldn't use a binder in anything unless it's cured and smoked, but that's me.

OK, some the reading i have been doing (not on this forum) says they are used to retain moisture during the cook? IDK, just got into this with a Kitchenaid grinder stuffer to start. I plan to stuff uncured bratwurst first (will Sous vide to 145) then cook later on the grill. I ordered some backwoods kits for jerky and snack stick later.

 

[DougE]

OK, some the reading i have been doing (not on this forum) says they are used to retain moisture during the cook?

With sausages that are fresh, I don't feel like you need the moisture retention that you would in a cured sausage that's going to spend time on the smoker. I'd also say that I have never added any binders to my jalapeno cheddar sausages, which are a cured, smoked sausage, and they are always moist after grilling or pan frying.

 

[DRKsmoking]

I am in for this , really wanting to get some real incite

As I had a bit of a fail and the binder is part of my problem, the lean meat was the other.

So thanks for starting this Doug
Following

David

 

[pc farmer]

I tried binders and didn't feel they were needed. I feel if you mix the meat right, use the right meats together and the right smoking temps and steps they are not needed but what do I know.

 

[DougE]

I tried binders and didn't feel they were needed. I feel if you mix the meat right, use the right meats together and the right smoking temps and steps they are not needed but what do I know.

I mostly agree, Adam, just trying to see where everyone else comes down.

 

[DougE]

As I had a bit of a fail and the binder is part of my problem, the lean meat was the other.

I believe you would have had much different results if you had a higher fat content, David. You did such a good job stuffing and linking, and it's a shame the results were less than you were expecting.

 

[Bigtank]

New to sausage making in for the ride.

 

[DRKsmoking]

I believe you would have had much different results if you had a higher fat content, David. You did such a good job stuffing and linking, and it's a shame the results were less than you were expecting.

Thanks for saying that Doug, but yes the process was ok with me , the results on the flavor and the juiciness were just not there.
I am ok with it now. I say " Forget the Mistake , Remember the Lesson "
I can still eat them in a pot of chili or something, I fried up a couple in a jerk sauce the other day , not bad. lol. But I will eat almost anything

I have a small Cabela's grinder ( half price sale today ) on order as of today. Be here in 2/3 weeks .
I will be making my own mix with a better fat content, And way back on the binder, and this binder depends on the info I gather in this post

David

 

[DougE]

Thanks for saying that Doug, but yes the process was ok with me , the results on the flavor and the juiciness were just not there.
I am ok with it now. I say " Forget the Mistake , Remember the Lesson "
I can still eat them in a pot of chili or something, I fried up a couple in a jerk sauce the other day , not bad. lol. But I will eat almost anything

I have a small Cabela's grinder ( half price sale today ) on order as of today. Be here in 2/3 weeks .
I will be making my own mix with a better fat content, And way back on the binder, and this binder depends on the info I gather in this post

David

I've had flops too, fat out on one batch of jalapeno cheddar ........ wasn't my first go, either, but They still got eaten.

Binders came up in a few topics lately is what moved me to open it up to discussion.

 

[Bigtank]

I saw "Rusk" in a recipe for British Banger sausage what is Rusk?

 

[DRKsmoking]

batch of jalapeno cheddar ........ wasn't my first go

There was a brand of 3 cheese and Jalapeno sausages that my grocery carried ,Love them a lot. Then they stopped selling.
Said not enough people bought them.
Hard to find a really good one.
Did you ever post the one you make here , if so I will look it up
If not , would you be willing to share it if you don't mind. I'm ok if you would rather not. and I understand.

David

 

[DougE]

I saw "Rusk" in a recipe for British Banger sausage what is Rusk?

Basically twice baked bread crumbs. I've had some store bought Irish bangers, and they were delicious.

 

[Bigtank]

Basically twice baked bread crumbs. I've had some store bought Irish bangers, and they were delicious.

So would that be considered a binder?

 

[DougE]

Bangers came about during WWII when meat was in short supply as a way of extending the sausage filling, from my research. Due to the added moisture content from the rusk, the casings tend to split when cooking with a "pop", from the internal steam, and that's how they got the name.

 

[DougE]

So would that be considered a binder?

Yes, rusk is a binder. A binder is any non-meat additive that binds more moisture into the sausage batter.

 

[DougE]

There was a brand of 3 cheese and Jalapeno sausages that my grocery carried ,Love them a lot. Then they stopped selling.
Said not enough people bought them.
Hard to find a really good one.
Did you ever post the one you make here , if so I will look it up
If not , would you be willing to share it if you don't mind. I'm ok if you would rather not. and I understand.

David

I got the recipe I use from another member here and I don't know if he has shared it in the forum. For that reason alone, I won't post a recipe shared with me privately, unless I have the okay from the one who gave it to me.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Binders to me are interesting, but I’ll say where I stand from my experience.
NFDM is good in fresh sausage. I don’t use it in smoked and/or cured sausage, but that may just be me.

The process of making sausage is the most important ingredient. Quality meat to start. Par frozen cold before grind. Sharp blade and plate on the grinder for a premium grind. Keep that meat cold. Then mix in the ingredients and mix until you get good protein extraction, this is key. If working with more than a 80/20 mix like 75 or 70/30 it’s a good idea to grind fat and lean meat separately then combine later in the mix. This does work much better for quality product.

If a binder is used, potato starch is my go to, but carrot fiber is very good also. These will help hold the natural juices of the meat, meat moisture, if you will. These will not save the fat or stop the dreaded fat out, but they will help retain moisture. A good grind and proper protein extraction is pretty much all I really need for a high quality sausage. This along with proper cooking temperature is all you really need. Pork, salt, pepper and a little garlic will make an incredible sausage if made right. No funny business needed.