Meat Cure Experiment.

[SmokinEdge]

So a couple weeks ago I was in a discussion with DougE about Rytek Kutas’s claim that cure #1 alone was enough to cure meat, not other ingredients and no added salt.
I told Doug that I doubted that but you can’t know until you do. I’m always happy to do. So at that time I had just sliced off some 1-1/4 pork steaks from a pork shoulder and decided to sacrifice one for the experiment. It weighs exactly 8oz. So I calculated cure #1 at .25% but that was basically a 1/2 gram. Pretty difficult to apply that little to both sides of the steak evenly. So I pushed up the ppm to 200ppm that was around .7 gram, not much better but is still within USDA guidelines. I weighed out the cure #1 and did the best I could to evenly apply to both sides. I bagged it and into a cold fridge for 14 days.

Not sure if it worked, but the meat smells nice after 14 days so we will smoke it today and post a cut shot.

This may be of interest to all of the low salt guys curing out there. I don’t know I’m posting this play by play.

 

[indaswamp]

I would say that it depends on the definition of 'cure' you use....

If you mean to say that the pink color will be evident in the product when cooked using only cure #1 at 0.25%- then yes, this is true.
But using the traditional definition of 'cure'; meaning dry aged; then no. You MUST have salt to dry cure meat. Period. Matter of fact, you can dry cure whole muscles WITHOUT using cure #1 at all!!! The biological breakdown of proteins naturally release nitrogen compounds. These eventually form ammonia in the meat, which convert to Nitrates via bacteria conversion, and eventually into Nitrite, which will cure the meat and give the pink color.

Matter of fact, whole bone in Proscuitto goes through a heat treat phase for a few days to accelerate this natural process to create nitrite in the meat....and set the color....

 

[SmokinEdge]

I would say that it depends on the definition of 'cure' you use....

If you mean to say that the pink color will be evident in the product when cooked using only cure #1 at 0.25%- then yes, this is true.
But using the traditional definition of 'cure'; meaning dry aged; then no. You MUST have salt to dry cure meat. Period. Matter of fact, you can dry cure whole muscles WITHOUT using cure #1 at all!!! The biological breakdown of proteins naturally release nitrogen compounds. These eventually form ammonia in the meat, which convert to Nitrates via bacteria conversion, and eventually into Nitrite, which will cure the meat and give the pink color.

Matter of fact, whole bone in Proscuitto goes through a heat treat phase for a few days to accelerate this natural process to create nitrite in the meat....and set the color....

I am well aware of all of that. And would be a great continued conversation. However, this is extremely low salt “curing” under refrigeration using cure #1 only. That specifically is this experiment. If it works then low salt curing is possible under refrigeration. Also it’s a general rule that lower salt takes more time in cure, but I’m only going 14 days here with 1.7g per pound. This is extreme to see if the cure salt can penetrate without added extra salt.

Don’t get wound up. I’m not challenging anything, just testing.

 

[indaswamp]

Understood. Was not a challenge. I should have posted "for clarification"....sorry for the confusion. Looking forward to the results.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Well it’s done. Was a fast smoke just for testing. Smoked to IT 150. Cut shot coming.

 

[SmokinEdge]

The cut shot.

 

[DougE]

The cut shot.

View attachment 722444

While it appears cured all the way through, you and I have had many discussions about wet brines (a specific one which I shall not mention, and the low level of nitrite even though the meat was pink all the way through). The nitrite level in that one is below what Marianski deemed to be effective.

 

[pc farmer]

Sure looks cured and good to me.

 

[SmokinEdge]

The results surprised me a little. The cure salt did penetrate all the way through. The color is a little weaker than usual but at the same time the color is very uniform across the cut profile, it’s not stronger on the edges versus the center, it’s uniform.

I think obviously some additional salt would have been helpful. The taste is good but really just tastes like meat, no “hammy” flavor like usual, but again there is no salt flavor which I think is a big part of the flavor profile. At the end of the day I would call this successful. If even .5% salt was added the results would improve.

Personally I think low salt curing is fine under refrigeration, and when smoking any low salt cure you should follow the 40 to 140 internal temperature rule.

 

[zwiller]

May I suggest continuing and using potassium chloride in place of salt? Say like .5% KCl? Then maybe 1%. Not only is KCl sodium free but it is an electrolyte and EXACTLY what a person on sodium restriction needs.

 

[SmokinEdge]

May I suggest continuing and using potassium chloride in place of salt? Say like .5% KCl? Then maybe 1%. Not only is KCl sodium free but it is an electrolyte and EXACTLY what a person on sodium restriction needs.

Sounds good to me. KCI and curing is wading into the weeds for me. I’ve never used it and not sure of its effects in terms of curing.

As far as I know it’s the sodium that is the real driver of diffusion. I’m not sure that chloride as much if any effects on diffusion. I just don’t know. But would be a fun experiment.

 

[thirdeye]

So I calculated cure #1 at .25% but that was basically a 1/2 gram. Pretty difficult to apply that little to both sides of the steak evenly.

I don't know if you have seen this article I linked below but the dry cure (Cure #1 + table salt) amount used is 1/4 teaspoon per pound.

In the instructions, the author uses a unique method of tapping a spoon, 1-foot above the meat, and flipping the meat many times.

dry brined quick pastrami recipe

 

[SmokinEdge]

I don't know if you have seen this article I linked below but the dry cure (Cure #1 + table salt) amount used is 1/4 teaspoon per pound.

In the instructions, the author uses a unique method of tapping a spoon, 1-foot above the meat, and flipping the meat many times.

dry brined quick pastrami recipe

Very interesting, I had not seen that. Thanks for sharing.

 

[indaswamp]

May I suggest continuing and using potassium chloride in place of salt? Say like .5% KCl? Then maybe 1%. Not only is KCl sodium free but it is an electrolyte and EXACTLY what a person on sodium restriction needs.

Of course, individual tastes vary, but I have found that anywhere above about 0.6% KCl in a sausage and you get that bitter potassium taste......

 

[indaswamp]

The low sodium sausage I made used 0.5% sodium....if I remember correctly. My main concern there was protein extraction for the bind. But I mixed the salt into the lean first so as to increase the concentration of salt for extraction, then added the fat to mix in.

 

[SmokinEdge]

The low sodium sausage I made used 0.5% sodium....if I remember correctly. My main concern there was protein extraction for the bind. But I mixed the salt into the lean first so as to increase the concentration of salt for extraction, then added the fat to mix in.

I think it’s definitely doable, but maybe more steps or special considerations.

What are your thoughts on Chloride vs. sodium as a driver of diffusion? Maybe not as big a deal in sausage that’s hot smoked but might be in say bacon. Thoughts?

 

[indaswamp]

I think it’s definitely doable, but maybe more steps or special considerations.

What are your thoughts on Chloride vs. sodium as a driver of diffusion? Maybe not as big a deal in sausage that’s hot smoked but might be in say bacon. Thoughts?

It takes both ions to diffuse salt into the meat. Can't have one without the other...positive and negative.....and it is the nature of water to seek equilibrium of the charges. Starting off, all those charged ions are on the surface, so water flows to the surface to try and establish equilibrium. The ions start to spread out to do the same, and thus diffuse into the meat. Diffusion is the name of the game- especially for dry curing meats. I know that is not what this thread is about, but once the salt has diffuse through the meat, it is always trying to establish equilibrium. So as moisture evaporates off the surface of the meat, this increases to salt concentration near the surface of the meat, so that gradient difference 'pulls' more water to the surface from deep within the meat.....this is the science of how dry curing works.

 

[SmokinEdge]

It takes both ions to diffuse salt into the meat. Can't have one without the other...positive and negative.....and it is the nature of water to seek equilibrium of the charges. Starting off, all those charged ions are on the surface, so water flows to the surface to try and establish equilibrium. The ions start to spread out to do the same, and thus diffuse into the meat. Diffusion is the name of the game- especially for dry curing meats. I know that is not what this thread is about, but once the salt has diffuse through the meat, it is always trying to establish equilibrium. So as moisture evaporates off the surface of the meat, this increases to salt concentration near the surface of the meat, so that gradient difference 'pulls' more water to the surface from deep within the meat.....this is the science of how dry curing works.

That’s good information for readers.
But my question specifically was how or if KCI drives diffusion? I’m guessing not?

 

[indaswamp]

That’s good information for readers.
But my question specifically was how or if KCI drives diffusion? I’m guessing not?

Yes, it will. Remember this is on an atomic level. Both sodium and potassium will readily diffuse into the meat. As will Sodium Nitrite, sodium nitrate, and a host of other salts. The rates of diffusion may vary some, but all will drive diffusion. The chemical principal at play here is equalization.


PS- was not clear from your post that you were referring specifically to potassium. I read chloride vs. sodium.....

 

[SmokinEdge]

Yes, it will. Remember this is on an atomic level. Both sodium and potassium will readily diffuse into the meat. As will Sodium Nitrite, sodium nitrate, and a host of other salts. The rates of diffusion may vary some, but all will drive diffusion. The chemical principal at play here is equalization.


PS- was not clear from your post that you were referring specifically to potassium. I read chloride vs. sodium.....

Thank you for clarification and insight.

And yes, that was kinda my bad on the potassium question, I really didn’t specify but was rolling with the subject. But I appreciate your thoughts and responses. Thanks again. I understand well the process of diffusion but did not know that potassium would do the same.