Bark Question

[joe black]

I think that most meat absorbs about all of the smoke that it's going to in about 2 hours.

 

[3montes]

I smoke at 250. Spritz with a mixture of usually apple juice and cherry schnapps. I spritz about once a hour. The sugars in the spritz will carmelize and give you a nice bark. I like to pan uncovered at about 165 to catch all those great juices. I sometimes add  4 to 6 ounces of dark beer to the bottom of the pan. Continue to smoke until 205. Pull off the smoker cover and put in the Cambro food keeper for as long as I can. Sometimes overnight. When it sits overnight in the food keeper it almost pulls itself. I always get a great bark.

When I uncover it after the resting period all those great juices are in the bottom of the pan. I pull it right in the same pan. By the time I'm done pulling it has reabsorbed all those juices.

Once pulled and ready to bag I might add a little more rub. Best method I have found.

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• 3montes
• Apr 7, 2016

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• 3montes
• Apr 7, 2016

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• 3montes
• Apr 7, 2016

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• 3montes
• Apr 7, 2016

 

[cliffcarter]

 
Side question related to temps. Is there a point where the meat stops absorbing smoke because of internal temp? I read that somewhere so I tend to smoke low and long to get the most of the smoke flavor.

The answer is no, smoke ring formation will cease once the meat temp hits 140°, under normal circumstances but the meat will continue to "absorb"( not what actually happens but close enough for this discussion) smoke as long as there is smoke.

I think that most meat absorbs about all of the smoke that it's going to in about 2 hours.

Meat will pick up smoke flavor for as long as it is exposed to smoke, there is no time limit, see the signature line below.

 

[chef jimmyj]

 
The answer is no, smoke ring formation will cease once the meat temp hits 140°, under normal circumstances but the meat will continue to "absorb"( not what actually happens but close enough for this discussion) smoke as long as there is smoke.

Meat will pick up smoke flavor for as long as it is exposed to smoke, there is no time limit, see the signature line below.

Hit the Nail on the Head. I was forced to test this on a Pork Butt, long story short....I ususally smoked Butts start to finish, 12-16 hours. A cranky neighbor complained so the next time I only smoked for 4 hours...Had NOWHERE near the great smokey flavor of adding Smoke for the duration of the cook. I moved and now " I Do What I Want! "...JJ

 

[krusmoke]

Great feedback, thanks!

@3montes  - Drooling at those pictures! I will try a version of your spritz next time!

 

[big k-dawg]

I always wrap my butts and still get a nice bark on them! I did this butt yesterday! Cooked at 275 degrees! Wrapped at the 5th hour! Cooked til the IT was 205! Be blessed!:-)

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[russell page]

see below

 

[russell page]

 
Side question related to temps. Is there a point where the meat stops absorbing smoke because of internal temp? I read that somewhere so I tend to smoke low and long to get the most of the smoke flavor.

Kru--the "internal temp" of the meat has no effect. When the surface temp of the meat is the same as the surrounding temp of the cooker smoke stops condensing on the meat and it takes up no more smoke.

Solution---If you  spritz the meat (lightly) with any liquid it evaporates and cools the surface and the warmer smoke will condense on the meat. Think cold beer on a warm humid day and the drops that form on it.

Theoretically if you do this there is no limit to how much smoke will be "absorbed"

Cheers 

 

[chef jimmyj]

 
Kru--the "internal temp" of the meat has no effect. When the surface temp of the meat is the same as the surrounding temp of the cooker smoke stops condensing on the meat and it takes up no more smoke.

Solution---If you  spritz the meat (lightly) with any liquid it evaporates and cools the surface and the warmer smoke will condense on the meat. Think cold beer on a warm humid day and the drops that form on it.

Theoretically if you do this there is no limit to how much smoke will be "absorbed"

Cheers 

Soooooo....Cold smoking Bacon or Country Hams for 7 to 14 DAYS is pointless because the meat and smoker are the same temp, there is no smoke condensing, and it won't stick???? Beyond the gases, esters and aldehydes that are in smoke that contribute to flavor and form the Smoke Ring. A large portion of smoke is made up of Particulate Matter and flavorful Resins that will settle on the sticky Pellicle formed when dissolved surface proteins dry. You are correct that wetting the surface will slow the surface fibers from coagulating, for a little while, to get a thicker smoke ring. But with overall flavor...As long as you Make Smoke the meat will Take Smoke...JJ

 

 

[krusmoke]

THAT was very enlightening information! That analogy will help me remember, too. :) Thank you!

 

[russell page]

Thanks for the correction Chef.  I probably worded that wrong.

 

[chef jimmyj]

 
Thanks for the correction Chef.  I probably worded that wrong.

No issue my friend. Take care...JJ

 

[russell page]

I in no way am trying to be difficult or argue.

If I was inclined to argue it darned sure would not be with Chef Jimmy. I have followed his advice for years. 

Wood smoke is composed of hundreds of substances and much depends on which substances we are referring to. 

The short answer is "No-meat does not stop 'absorbing' smoke-the meat just 'absorbs' more/faster when it is cooled such as when lightly spritzed"

2 cans in a smoker:

SMOKE.PNG

• russell page
• Jun 27, 2016

 

 

[chef jimmyj]

LOL...Yes you are correct. If you want a heavier smoke flavor, especially on a short cook (6 hours or less), keep it moist. The only caveat, you better be makin' TBS...Keep wetting down the meat and you are pumping Creosote laden White Plumes, that meat will taste nasty. We can talk Science of Smoke all day but the Art of generating Smoke and controlling how the Smoke makes the meat taste is what makes award winning Q...JJ

 

[daveomak]

 

 
Side question related to temps. Is there a point where the meat stops absorbing smoke because of internal temp? I read that somewhere so I tend to smoke low and long to get the most of the smoke flavor.

Kru--the "internal temp" of the meat has no effect. When the surface temp of the meat is the same as the surrounding temp of the cooker smoke stops condensing on the meat and it takes up no more smoke.

Solution---If you  spritz the meat (lightly) with any liquid it evaporates and cools the surface and the warmer smoke will condense on the meat. Think cold beer on a warm humid day and the drops that form on it.

Theoretically if you do this there is no limit to how much smoke will be "absorbed"

Cheers 

Where did you "hear" or read that ???

 

[jetsknicks1]

JJ, I've already learned in my short time on here that you sure know how to cook. Do you have any finishing sauce/glaze that you've used in the past that you wouldn't mind sharing?

JJ's tangy finishing sauce is the way to go. I get major compliments every time I use it. Thumbs Up

 

[cliffcarter]

 

SMOKE.PNG

• russell page
• Jun 27, 2016

 

I'm wondering what the empty can would look like if you sprayed it with ice water just after it was taken out of the smoke. I also wonder what room temperature water and hot water filled cans would look like.

It certainly appears that there is "more" smoke on the ice water can but looks may be deceiving, there is no accurate way to quantify what we are seeing therefore there is no way that we can accurately say that there is more smoke on the surface of the ice water can.

One thing that I can say with certainty from my own experience, if you are cooking low and slow, is that if you spritz or mop with a cold liquid you will increase the overall cooking time, in other words you are creating a "stall". Cooking at higher temps will offset this effect if you are spritzing and IMHO mops should always be hot.

JM2C.

 

[russell page]

 
I'm wondering what the empty can would look like if you sprayed it with ice water just after it was taken out of the smoke. I also wonder what room temperature water and hot water filled cans would look like.

It certainly appears that there is "more" smoke on the ice water can but looks may be deceiving, there is no accurate way to quantify what we are seeing therefore there is no way that we can accurately say that there is more smoke on the surface of the ice water can.

One thing that I can say with certainty from my own experience, if you are cooking low and slow, is that if you spritz or mop with a cold liquid you will increase the overall cooking time, in other words you are creating a "stall". Cooking at higher temps will offset this effect if you are spritzing and IMHO mops should always be hot.

JM2C.

You are absolutely correct about evaporative cooling prolonging the stall what I was addressing the smoke not the stall and trying to say was:

1. Meat will never stop adsorbing smoke as long as smoke/gas is present. 

              (As long as you Make Smoke the meat will Take Smoke...JJ

 )

2. The cooler the meat surface is the faster it adsorbs smoke/gas--This is undeniable.

I certainly agree that most smoke other that TBS can produce bad flavors. 

I use the AMZPS and have never had it produce anything but TBS. ( I control heat my other than a fire with my method)

I sure did not intend to aggravate anyone. I am here to learn.

 

[cliffcarter]

 
...I sure did not intend to aggravate anyone. I am here to learn.

I am not aggravated in the least, just curious.

Is this coming from Dr. Blonder via Meathead?

 

[russell page]

 
I am not aggravated in the least, just curious.

Is this coming from Dr. Blonder via Meathead?

Cliff, Some of it is directly from Dr. Blonder but (not via Meathead.) ( I am not a fan of that site) But "smoke" condensation on a surface cooler than the smoke is actually due to the laws of physics.

That being said, unlike demonstrating smoke condensation on a can, piece of cotton or tile, a couple of years a ago I tried to photograph the phenomenon while actually doing a brisket. It is extremely difficult to do without professional  equipment. As soon as one opens the lid the smoke rapidly disperses due to air currents. After dozens of tries I manged to get a pretty sorry image of it and wanted to post it here but  by the time it was copied and pasted it was an even worse image. However I am going to work on it again and hopefully be able to post something of merit soon.

I love this forum and despite what it says on my profile (new member) I have been here 3+ years. I have learned a lot from the folks on here that are outstanding pit masters in their own right.

Most of all I have learned that about the only thing we all agree on is that all smoked meat is good just some is better than others.

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