40-140 ?

[austinl]

Sounds like we are on the same page.  I do try to make use of forks, tongs, whatever.  I'd tend to agree about those abrasive cleaners doing more harm than good; don't want my food tasting like simple green no matter how "green" it is.  Sometimes I take it as bragging rights if guests are over and make comments about how good the smell is without any Q-ing involved.  :)  some things are meant to be enjoyed without conscious.

 

[austinl]

And speaking of that my meatloaf is almost up to 165 and this pic should lighten the mood.  Just give me a few minutes to pull and cut into it and some much needed q-view will follow.

 

[austinl]

Believe it or not, that pink under the katchup is a slight smoke ring.  I've had better but this pic is what it is.

z

 

[raptor700]

Great looking loaf Austin 

 

[austinl]

Hey, thanks I have the recipe posted somewhere on here.  It is an old-fashion American loaf i.e.; oats, mustard, sausage, warcestershire sauce, garlic, onions, etc. 

 

[chef jimmyj]

I'm going to jump topics here for a second; Jimmy I respect your continued open-ended responses to this food safety discussion.  I had no idea my original post would open this can-of-worms however, I am experienced enough to know that this can't be the first time this subject has came up on here.  The reason why I decided to drop my objection with the context of the argument is mostly because of how you paraphrased your responses.  I now see it doesn't matter if this "rule" is written in stone or not because it is a good rule-of-thumb for all members whom are free to modify it at their own descresion and I see this as a successful function of these web-forum debates.

Thank You, Austin, for understanding the whole point...And never hesitate to add input...Learning is continuous here...JJ

 

[raptor700]

I think this is the post you're referring too.

Thanks for sharing your recipe.



Homestyle Meatloaf

1.25 lbs. lean ground beef

0.33 lbs. plain ground pork sausage

1 and 1/3 cups rolled oats

1 small onion, finely chopped

6 garlic cloves, pressed

2 eggs

1/3 cup milk

1 6 oz. can tomato paste

2 TBS. brown mustard

2 TBS. worcestershire sauce

1 and 1/2 tsp. salt

1 tsp. ground black pepper

1 tsp. cayenne chile powder

1/2 cup ketchup

2 tsp. marjoram

Throughly mix all ingredients in a large bowl (except for the ketchup and marjoram) and transfer to a loaf pan and pack it down well.  Spread the ketchup evenly on top and then sprinkle the marjoram on top of the ketchup.  Cover with foil and bake at 375F for 1 hour, removing the foil in the last 20 minutes of baking.

This also cooks well in a smoker.  Smoke uncovered at 240F for 2-3 hours and  letting the internal temperature reach 165F.  Add the ketchup and marjoram in the last 30 minutes of smoking.

 

[tommerr]

As a 100% newbie, does this thread argue that smaller pieces of meat are preferred to larger cuts? If a ten pound piece of meat is cut in two, are not the smoking results and safety enhanced? Now you could take this to an extreme but I'm not talking about ground meat. My thoughts drift to pulled pork and roasts. At what point do small cuts negatively influence safety because the probe becomes useless?

 

[chef jimmyj]

As a 100% newbie, does this thread argue that smaller pieces of meat are preferred to larger cuts? If a ten pound piece of meat is cut in two, are not the smoking results and safety enhanced? Now you could take this to an extreme but I'm not talking about ground meat. My thoughts drift to pulled pork and roasts. At what point do small cuts negatively influence safety because the probe becomes useless?

An intact hunk of meat, no injection or punctures, at 5, 10, 15Lbs up to an Entire Pig or Side of Beef, is no problem, set your temp at 225*F+/- and have at it...Where we start to be concerned with Time and Temp is with Injecting and inserting the Temp Probe in raw meat. With injection there is a risk of pushing surface bacteria into the meat where given time can multiply to unsafe levels...If you plan on Smoking a 20LB Beef Standing Rib Roast to 130*F for Med Rare, Don't inject (IMO..It don't need it!... that's a lot of money spent to have the whole thing taste like Worcestershire Sauce anyway!...) and wait an hour before you insert the Temp probe, at 225* any bugs on the outside will be dead. That being said, I know some inject without incidence...It is up to a well informed person to decide for themselves.

You can probe down to a 1 inch thick cut of meat...There are no safety issues with small cuts of meat and probing for IT...JJ

 

[SmokinAl]

Great looking meatloaf Austin, thanks for the recipe.

 

[alblancher]

Tommerr

Just for clarification,   Meatloaf ain't intact muscle meat!!

Austin, 

Thanks for understanding the problem we had with your initial comments about food safety codes.  I appreciate you adapting your public responses to acknowledge their importance on this forum.  I brought up gloves and tongs to try and calm down the thread a bit. We normally don't hijack threads but this presents another teaching moment.  Moving raw meat with a fork negates the intact muscle meat rule and requires that the meat is handled as commingled meat, similar to your meat loaf.  If you stick a big old fork in your pork butt to move it to the smoker or to move it around in your marinade you should adhere to the 4 hour rule.  Inexpensive plastic disposable gloves are fine for applying spices and moving meat to the grill.   Tongs or food safety, heat resistant gloves should be used when moving meat on the smoker prior to the surface of the meat reaching 140.   Forks should be cleaned just like temp probes and injection needles.

Great looking Meatloaf.  Only problem is my wife cooked about 5 lbs of meat loaf day before yesterday and I have had meatloaf as part of every meal since so,  well you know.

 

[austinl]

Wow 5 pounds is a mighty loaf.

 

[alblancher]

Using 80/20 so the final product wasn't quite that large but yes, it was a lot of meat loaf.   Let's see I had a slab for dinner,  meat loaf cut up in my eggs for breakfast,  meatloaf sandwiches for lunch, chunked up on crackers with mayo for a snack watching football, meatloaf broken up with a bit of red sauce on pasta, zapped in the microwave with some BBQ sauce on it.  You get my drift,  no freezer room right now so eat it or lose it!

 

[shooterrick]

I often am amazed that this keeps coming up.  Is the 40-140 in 4 a sound guidline to help folks not poison themselves?  Yes.  Is the rule gonna hurt anyone? No.  Will it gaurantee you will not get food poisoning if you use it?  Not if you pick your nose and scratch your rear and then massage your feet and touch your food with bare hands it won't help much. 

Tip:  The 40-140 in 4 will work for you to minimize possible unforseen and often cross contaminated home proceedures.  Follow it!  It will not hurt to do so and may keep you and yours healthy. 

Tip:  I use insulated rubber gloves that I wash with hot water and soap between each handleing event during a smoke before I take them off.   Easy to do. Easier than tongs for me.

Tip:  I use unpowdered surgical gloves during catering and at home while making sausage and breaking down cooked meat.  Makes friends and customers happy and confident.

Tip:  You are human as I and will make food handleing mistakes.  Try to minimize them with sound procedures but don't freak out when you do.  It is about minimizing chance.

The 40-140 in 4 will reduce risk in an already non sterile invironment.  Disinfect working surfaces and be aware of and how you do things and you will minimize the odds of bad things happening.

You are not working inside an autoclave.  Sterile and disinfected are not the same thing.  It is about risk management. 

Ok I am done with this thread now.  I suppose it is true that common sense is not so common with everyone but who would not want to minimize the chance of getting sick?  If you answere "not me" to the question read the first part of the last sentence again.

 

[exhaustedspark]

After going back over the posts as i read the answers to my doubts and questions i see a misunderstanding. I do not know if it is me or thee. It really does not matter. Yes i do use the commercial guide lines for temp and time. My questions have and my intent has been to point out it would be imposable to meet that guide if it extended to the butcher then to the store then to my car then to my fridge or freezer the out to prepare. I have talked on PM with JJ and he is sure he did not tell me it was cumulative or maybe the word would be accumulative.  ???????

As it is written above i believe it is after i cook and then have sitting around for turkey day.

Some of my posts i thought i was being funny and after reading again they came out smart arsed and for that i apologize. I appreciate JJ experience and the work and help he offers on this forum.

Karl

 

[chef jimmyj]

LOL... As my Dad would say tongue in cheek...."Fifty Cents one Half Dozen the other!"... I'm glad we have come to an accord... I do appreciate your input to the SMF...JJ
[h3]ac·cu·mu·la·tive/əˈkyo͞omyələtiv/[/h3]

Adjective:	Gathering or growing by gradual increases.
Synonyms:	cumulative

 

[jc1947]

Disparaging Comments about others Knowledge and Abilities WILL NOT BE TOLERATED>>>PERIOD>>>END OF DISCUSSION...JJ

That certainly says a lot about you and this site!
 

 

[culinaryeats]

This may be a stupid question but I'm trying to understand the risks here. What if you have to drive 30 minutes to the store, shopping and then home. Prep a injection then inject, wrap and put in the Fridge. If it was above 40 during that time will putting it back in the fridge "reset or stop the process? Should it go straight on the smoker?

After reading all this great information I'm leaning more towards standard rub / smokes rather than injecting LOL. I've had food poisoning 3 times in my life from eating out so what every I can do to never have a 4th is best by me.

 

[bama bbq]

This may be a stupid question but I'm trying to understand the risks here. What if you have to drive 30 minutes to the store, shopping and then home. Prep a injection then inject, wrap and put in the Fridge. If it was above 40 during that time will putting it back in the fridge "reset or stop the process? Should it go straight on the smoker?

After reading all this great information I'm leaning more towards standard rub / smokes rather than injecting LOL. I've had food poisoning 3 times in my life from eating out so what every I can do to never have a 4th is best by me.

I hear ya.  I've had food poisoning also and don't care for a repeat performance.

 

[daveomak]

This may be a stupid question but I'm trying to understand the risks here. What if you have to drive 30 minutes to the store, shopping and then home. Prep a injection then inject, wrap and put in the Fridge. If it was above 40 during that time will putting it back in the fridge "reset or stop the process? Should it go straight on the smoker?

After reading all this great information I'm leaning more towards standard rub / smokes rather than injecting LOL. I've had food poisoning 3 times in my life from eating out so what every I can do to never have a 4th is best by me.

Cul, evening.... I carry an ice chest and get ice at the store during the warm weather..... especially if I'm getting ice cream and meat... food poisoning sucks....   Dave