Wiring PID and SSR = need some help

Discussion in 'UDS Builds' started by flyweed, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    so on connection 1 and 2...for AC in..that can be just a standard 120vac input..no converter or anything like that?  That is much easier than running it through the SSR..I got a ton of wires in my littly hobby box right now. :)

    Dan
     
  2. hughjass

    hughjass Fire Starter

    Joe,

    Are you able to get PID control when wiring through J1? 

    I've just completed the wiring for a small electric smoker  That one is run to a SSR.  I have another PID ( a friend keeps giving them to me) and a drum.  I'd like to put a PID on an charcoal fueled UDS.  If I run a small computer fan from J1, will I lose PID control and only use the PID as a switch for the fan?

    Thanks
     
  3. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    Hugh..good question.  If you are wanting to wire up a fan to a UDS..that is EXACTLY what I am doing.....you don't need one of those computer muffin fans...but you can buy a small 5cfm blower style fan from a chinese company  for about $6.00..I have the contact info.  It is the exact same 5v dc blower they use on "the stoker"

    Dan
     
  4. ol' smokey

    ol' smokey Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Dan, terminals 1 & 2 are for powering the PID. The SSR is for controlling the temperature of your pit. Or in my case I'm using the relay connrction to control the fan which controls the pit temperature. If I had a diagrem of the back plane or terminal connections of your PID I could tell you how to wire it? Is it possable to show me the connections on the back plane of your PID? That would be helpful. I think mabey I'm confusing you more than helping right now. I'll try to make a diagram showing the proper connections but I need to see the proper terminal diagram for your PID. More information would be helpful....... I'll be on the SMF on and off tonight, I will keep checking up your progress.
     
  5. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    Joe...right now I have it ALL wired up the way "justpassingthroug" has it listed in Post #6..with the exception I connected to wires to the J1 terminals..for connecting my 5VDC blower fan..if it is indeed that simple. I won't need to use a Wall Wart then plugged into the plug in, I built into the side of my hobby box.

    Dan
     
  6. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    here is the wiring setup from the back of my PID mine does have english on it... I will list what mine say:

    1 - AC/DC +

    2- AC/DC -

    3- ground

    4- J1 output

    5- J1 ouput

    6- thermcouple -

    7 - thermocouple +

    8- ties into 7 just as the picture shows

    9-SSR output -

    10- SSR output +

    [​IMG]
     
  7. ol' smokey

    ol' smokey Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Dan, here's a pic of the wiring of my PID.

    The red wire is from the fans power supply, it carries 12 VDC to the fan only when the controller senses the need for more air. That's it.

    [​IMG]

    Let us know when you get a chance to run a test with it and what the results are.
     
  8. roklimo

    roklimo Smoke Blower

    A PT100 is a resistance temperature detector (RTD).  Completely different than a thermocouple.  An RTD is basically made of platinum, and changes resistance with temperature.  A Thermocouple is a junction between two different metals (Type K = Chromel and Alumel)  The junction of dissimilar metals creates a very small voltage that changes with temperature.  These devices are not interchangeable since the variable that follows temperature is different.

    Thermocouples are two wire devices.  RTD's can be two, three, or four wire devices. 
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  9. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    Joe

    couple questions.  you said the J1 connections carry 12vdc to the fan...I thought you said your fan was a 5vdc model?  won't this fry the fan if you are supplying a 5vdc fan with 12vdc?  my fan I am using is also a 5vdc..and I don't want to connect it to the J1 terminals..until I know it won't fry it...it took 2 weeks to get this shipped from China!!

    Also...I have no clue how to set up the PID's parameters. and get it running...basically all I want it to do is turn the blower on at 225F and off probably at 235F I guess......Any thoughts??

    Dan
     
  10. ol' smokey

    ol' smokey Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Dan,  I'm sorry if I misled you. J1 does not provide voltage it only makes a circuit when the PID controller needs to raise the pit temp via the fan. Thats why I split the hot wire from the power supply. The only power the PID supplies is for the SSR relay. I'll be monitoring this thread for a few hours while i'm making our supper tonight.

    For the second question, there should be an auto tune function. For mine I had to get the UDS running and then run the tuning function. If you try fron the start you'll not have very good control of the temps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  11. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    ok..so J1 opens and closes the connection like a light switch....so how do you supply power to your blower fan?  I think I am going to keep it wired like I originally had it then...and keep a plug in from the SSR..that will power the fan..I'll have to plug a ac/dc wall wart into it, but that's ok..no big deal

    so how do you set up the auto tune?  Does this automatically figure out what temps you want to keep it at, and it adjust automatically..or what?

    Dan
     
  12. ol' smokey

    ol' smokey Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Dan, I don't have your PID's instruction manuel but the one I'm using says to push and hold the ">" until the AT light flashes, about 2 seconds. On your PID it's on the front labeled "(at)". On my other PID I have to go into setup and scroll to the AT parameter and set it to 2. Once you get it it will take a few cycles of heating and cooling. In my case this took about a half hour. The process should start with your UDS at some working temperature say 250°. You only have to do this one time but if your like me you'll do it more just to see what happens. This is like an adventure, you never know whats next. When it's over you'll think it was childs play. 

    Keep in touch
     
  13. ol' smokey

    ol' smokey Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    And the answer to your second question is no. You have to manually set your target or set point. So for your first run you would fire up your UDS and manually get it to some steady state of operation, say 250°, then start the autotune function.
     
  14. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    cool I'll get the PID all hooked up and installed on my UDS and it should be easy and my UDS keeps a rock solid temp at 250 easily for at least 5 hours or more.

    SO I"ll get my UDS up to that temp and then I'll start up ther Autotune on my PID and let her go...sounds easy enough

    And as always, JOE, I really appreciate ALL of your help and advice.

    Dan
     
  15. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    Joe..I was looking at the wiring on your PID....you have AC power into the PID in 1, and 2 correct?  and then 4 and 5 are going out to your stoker fan correct?  what is that attached up at 11 and 12...is that your Thermocouple?

    So what provides power to your stoker fan?

    Dan
     
  16. justpassingthru

    justpassingthru Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member

    Hey Joe,

    Thanks for the diagram and pics, what brand of PID do you have? 

    Mine is a Auber SYL-2352P, SSR control output with the ramp/soak option, I finally understood the wiring instructions after reading them for 4 days, but I still haven't got my head wrapped around how to program it, I won't be able to install it until Saturday, I sure hope your around and don't mind some questions.  LOL

    I also plan to run a 12 VDC computer fan, I have wired an AC-DC converter to the SSR, my thinking is the fan will run the same time as the heating element (I'm installing a 750W finned heater strip in my GOSM), I'm wanting to blow the heat off of the element to create some turbulence, hoping it will eliminate hot spots.

    Dan, how ya doing?  You weren't kiddin', it's written in Chinese!

    Gene
     
  17. ol' smokey

    ol' smokey Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Dan, Terminals 4 & 5 are the normally open relay tips used to control power to the fan. Power for the fan comes from a 12 VDC power supply that came with fan. I simply split the hot wire and connected the individual wires to the relay. The power supply is plugged the same AC as the PID via an extention cord. 11 & 12 are indeed the TC connection.

    Gene, I'll be around the forum Sat. & Sun. afternoon about 2 ish. I have had Auber PID's in the past. I'll DL the instruction manual for yours and brush up a little.
     
  18. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    Joe,

    Ok...I thought I'd fire my PID up last night and give it a whirl on autotune....I plugged the PID in and the screen readout popped up "EEEE" on the readout screen.  Next I pressed and held ">" arrow until the autotune light started blinking, it did.  but the digital readout still said "EEEE"......I figured I'd just leave it along for a while and see what happens...well 3 hours later and it still reads "EEEE" and the Autotune light is still blinking on and off.

    Did I do something wrong? 

    Dan
     
  19. hughjass

    hughjass Fire Starter

    Dan, This is a ctrl C/ctrl V from the troubleshoot section of my PID Manual.

    http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362 instruction 1.6.pdf

    11. Error Message and trouble shooting
    11.1 Display EEEE
    This is an input error message. The possible reasons are, the sensor is not
    connected correctly; the input setting is wrong type; or the sensor is defective.
    If this happen s when using thermocouple sensor, you can short terminal 9
    and 10. If the display show s ambient temperature, the thermocouple is
    defective. If this happens when using the RTD sensor, check the input setting
    first because most controllers are shipped with input set for thermocouple.
    Then check the wiring. The two red wires should be on terminal 9 and 10. The
    clear wire should be on 8.

    Note that the PID, in my case, is set for thermocouple not RTD as default.

    Hope it helps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  20. flyweed

    flyweed Smoking Fanatic

    I assume that the PID is not set for the RTD....so how do you set it for RTD?  also my wires are different colors than yours..as in the photos earlier in this thread....there is a red (+), a yellow (-) and a blue/green which is NOT currently connected to anything.

    Dan
     

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