Weisswurst - pic may not be suitable for all ages

Discussion in 'Sausage' started by nogoer, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    Yesterday i gave a shot at making weisswurst. Not my first sausage by far, but the first time i emulsified any. As you can see from the pic the results were condifence killing and gross. The food processor had to chug a little to keep up, but each part of the batch clearly looked emulsified. However the end result had a crumbly texture like i spent about two seconds mixing it by hand and that was it. Each batch ran about 5 minutes in the food processor and i had previously hand mixed the batch for about 5 or so minutes. I definatly had a meat paste when i slapped it all into the stuffer.

    Not quite sure what went wrong? I already learned a 5lb batch needs to be done in at least 3 parts not 2 for the food proc. The only thing i can think is it just didnt mix long enough or maybe it got too hot while mixing. Now i've got 5 lbs of junk weisswurt and a frustrated angry desire to immediately try this again.

    The recipe i used was from the Rytek book and i used ice water as well as kept the meat in the freezer between steps.
  2. pitrow

    pitrow Smoking Fanatic

    I'm probably not the most qualified to answer this as I've yet to even try sausage (though that day is coming) but from just looking at the pictures it seems like the mix might have been too dry? Or maybe you hit the nail on the head with it getting too hot while mixing? Well, I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will be along soon to help you. I hope you figure it out!
  3. monty

    monty Master of the Pit Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Hey, nogoer,

    Emulsification looks ok but it does appear that some ingredients may be off in measure or substitued.

    Rytek's original recipe calls for a 25 and a 10 pound batch. I believe you said you did a five pound batch. Is is possible you put a ten pound ingredient measure of something into a five pound mix?

    Just a thought. Like I said the process for emulsification seems to be fine from the appearance but methinks there might have been a wee mistake at some point.

    Let me know if you get it "figgered out"!

  4. meat-man

    meat-man Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Live and learn brother try try again
  5. t-bone tim

    t-bone tim Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Nogoer , maybe you didn't have enough fat content or possibly not enough water added ?? ... just my .02 worth
  6. I have not read the book and have not made emulsified sausage but i have had donair give me a similar texture. What i did was after two passes through the grinder i mixed in all the spices well and then i ground it three more times. Afterward i kneaded and pounded the ball of meat to move out any airr bubbles caught in the meat. The result was a much denser more uniform meat texture that stayed very juicy. It was the ticket for donair maybe it would work for sausage.
  7. I've had the same results my first time, you need more fat and less heat.
  8. erain

    erain Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    looking at your picture and then reading the ingredients it almost seems as your picture represents what you would get with "lean" pork butts and veal. i would have to agree about the fat or maybe lack of it. a butcher friend of mine told me when making venison bologna that for 25 lbs use 5 lbs of pork backfat(backfat is the juiciest of the fats and the highest quality). it makes the juiciest sausage!!!! my bologna would turn out dry but i used lean pork and venison, that back fat is the ticket. i also dont do the emulsification, i just run thru grinder 4 times or so and its pretty close to store bought consistancy. it is definatly a paste. i am not familiar with the sausage you made so this may or may not apply.
  9. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    Im pretty sure the fat was ok but i wasn't my same anal checker as i didn't cut it all up and measure lean vs fat. The pork had a nice fat cap on it and the chuck was at least 20%. From the look of the pork i was worried there would be too much fat. However without actually having cut it up and weighing it i can't really say.

    I used the 10lb recipe and cut it in half for spices. I had chuck on hand so i used that (instead of veal) and butt at a 50/50 ratio. For spices this is generally how i make every batch since i can't process or smoke more than 5lbs at a time. Then i adjust seasoning the next time i make it again.

    Weisswurst (adapted from rytek kutas)
    1125g pork butt
    1125g chuck

    1/4 Cu milk powder
    2 Tbsp Kosher flake salt
    1/4 Cu Soy protein
    1/2 tsp Onion powder
    2 Tbsp Whole mustard seed - finely ground
    1/2 Tbsp White pepper (had to use a little black as well)
    1 1/2 Tbsp Dextrose
    1/2 tsp Mace
    2 Cups ice water for emulsifying

    The recipe also called for parsley and celery seed but i did not have either and neither really was in amounts that would alter the flavor by being absent.

    I ground the meat through the 3/8 plate and put it in the freezer while i cleaned up the grinder. Then mixed the meat and seasonings together without the water and put back in the freezer again. The meat was nice and cold and starting to get crunchy on top by the 2nd time.

    My food proc is ok sized but can't handle the whole batch so i split up the mix and pureed it in two batches using 1 cup of water per batch. I realized even though it fit in the bowl it was still too much when the motor overheated on the 2nd batch about 4 minutes into the puree. I moved that 2nd batch to the kitchen aid and mixed on medium for a couple minutes to finish the puree. The first batch went for about 5 minutes.

    Both batches then got mixed together and refridgerated while i cleaned again and set up the stuffer. I stuffed into hog casings and then cooked the sausage in 160F water til it hit 150 internally. After cooling under cold water, it all went back into the fridge overnight.

    I forgot to mention in the pic that the sausage on the left was from the fridge after water cooking only. The one on the right was after water cooking the night before and pan frying. Im pretty sure the fat content was ok but the ice water may not have been cold enough to keep temps down during the puree. I also dont know what a "broken" sausage emulsification looks like to know if that happened either.

    Thanks for all the help and advice though [​IMG]
  10. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    I wish i could find back fat around here. The butt i use is usually well larded and this batch i had the fatcap part of the butt so it was almost certainly close to enough fat. The only times i use extra fat are when i can't find butt and end up using country style ribs. Around here thats basically pork butt, but is the trimmed off parts from the boneless roast being cut.

    My other mistake was not running things through the grinder at least one more time. Especially affter putting in the spices. However normally i grind once and mix by hand til its nice and mushy and sticky. I've made countless batches of kielbasa and a few batches of beef sticks this way and they have all been fine.

    Of course i did find a new ale that went down too fast and by the time i got to making sausage i had killed most of the beer. It's very possible i over or under measured spices or wasn't paying enough attention to things to make sure the mix was good enough.

    Next time i think i'll omit the food proc and just grind 4-5 times like you do.
  11. pantherfan83

    pantherfan83 Smoking Fanatic

    I think you have a broken emulsion. There is definitely a temperature limit that you have to make sure you don't exceed. I'm not sure that temp is, but I'll look it up tonight and post again tomorrow. When I've done an emulsion in the past, I've put chipped/crushed ice in with the meat paste instead of ice water. When I made Mortadella, I remember I had to process until it reached a certain temperature. I overheated my processor too. The next time I made an emulsion for all-beef hot dogs, I made sure to do smaller batches.
  12. pantherfan83

    pantherfan83 Smoking Fanatic

    This is from Charcuterie by Ruhlman & Polcyn which I treat pretty much as gospel.


    Place the grinder, mixing bowl, processor bowl and blade in the freezer for 1 hour.

    Season meat with salt, sugar, and/or pink salt as called for in recipe after they have chilled. Do not season the fat.

    Grind the meat and fat into separate bowls set in ice. Store in freezer until ready to use. The meat can go as far as crunchy on the outside, but shouldn't be frozen solid.

    Add the ground meat to the food processor. Next add crushed ice and the remaining seasoning called for in your recipe (you will probably have to divide into several batches to avoid over filling your processor. Combine the batches at the end). Process until the mixture is smooth and the ice has been thoroughly incorporated, about 2 minutes. Check temperature with an instant-read thermometer; the meat should be below freezing at this point. If it's not below freezing, immediately spread it on a baking sheet and put in the freezer until it reaches 32 deg. F. Continue to process (taking the temp with the thermometer every few mintutes) until the temp, which will be rising due to the friction of the whipping blade reaches 40 deg. F.; about 5 minutes. When it reaches 40 F, add the ground fat and continue to puree. Depending upon how cold your fat is, the temp may drop again; this is good and will result in a smoother texture. When the temp reaches 45 F, add the dried milk powder (milk powder will strengthen the emulsion and help the sausage to retain moisture). Continue to process until the temp approaches 58 F. If you add room temp milk powder, the temp of the meat will rise very quickly. At around 60 F, the fat will separate from the meat and liquids resulting in a broken sausage, so make sure not to go above 58 F.

    Stop processing and refrigerate the sausage until you're ready to stuff into casings.

    Hope this helps. Just for giggles, I attached 2 pictures of the emulsified Mortadella that I made. Thought you might enjoy. It is stuffed into a beef bung. As you can see it is almost as long as the 13 x 18 baking sheet that it's sitting on. I can't remember exactly, but its cooked weight was 6 to 7 lbs.
  13. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    Well i tried the recipe again this weekend, but to a quarter scaled. I changed a couple things but wound up with the same result. Instead of the food proc i reground 4 times after initial grind. I also made sure of where my fat percent was. Ignoring the fat of the ground chuck for calc purposes i used 10oz fat to 1lb each pork and chuck which gave me over 20% fat. So fat content and heat from processing werent an issue. I wa sanal about the cold and froze the meat after each grind for 30min as well as put all the components in the fridge.

    My thoughts now float to the water cooking, but also to the chuck itself. thinking more and more it could be the chuck. Ive made lots of batches of kielbasa and brats none of which use chuck but all of which came out fine. I have also made beef sticks using all chuck that does come out with a sort of texture very similar to my problem.

    Any ideas of if im on the right track? Chuck to me never seems to bind well. Ive made one attempt at chorizo which used chuck and i seem to remember an off result. Other than the chuck could the water cook be killing my texture?

    thanks guys. I may make one more attempt and try it exactly as stated. Or possibly another recipe if someone has a tried and true weisswurst recipe?[​IMG]
  14. pantherfan83

    pantherfan83 Smoking Fanatic

    Once again from Charcuterie:


    1 lb/450 g boneless lean veal shoulder, diced
    12 oz./350 g pork fat back, diced
    3/4 oz/20 g kosher salt (1 1/2 TBS.)
    8 oz./225 g crushed ice
    1 tsp./3 g ground white pepper
    1 tsp./3 g Coleman's dry mustard
    1/4 tsp./1 g ground mace
    1 1/2 tsp./2 g grated lemon zest
    1 1/2 TBS./10 g chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley
    1 oz./25 g nonfat dry milk powder (2 TBS.)
    5 feet/2 m hog casing soaked and rinsed
    1. Partially freeze the diced veal and fat, then separately grind through the large die onto a baking sheet. Return to the freezer until crunch but not frozen solid, about 20 minutes.
    2. Combine the meat and fat with the salt and crushed ice. Regrind this mixture through the small die into the mixer bowl set in a bowl of ice.
    3. Fit mixer with the paddle attachment. Add the pepper, mustard, mace, lemon zest, and parsley to the meat mixture and mix on high for 3 to 4 minutes. Add the dry milk.
    4. Keeping the remaining mixture refrigerated while you cook, wrap a small amount of the mixture securely in plastic wrap (twisting and tying the ends) and cook as described in step 6 (except it won't take as long). When cooled, taste for seasoning. Adjust the seasoning and re-mix to distrubute if necessary.
    5. Stuff the mixture into the casing and twist into 6-inch/15-cm links.
    6. Cook the sausages in 170 F/76 C water to an internal temp of 150 F/65 C, about 15 to 20 minutes. Transfer to an ice bath and chill thoroughly to room temp or below. Refrigerate until ready to use.
    Yields about 2 lbs./1kg. or 8 6-inch links.

    Note: I tried to grind crushed ice once as it came out of the ice dispenser of my ice maker and it broke the blade of my grinder. I've avoided putting ice in my grinder ever since. I think if I did I would put it in a food processor and make it look like snow cone ice first. Or just add as cold as possible ice water.
  15. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    Thanks PantherFan83. I do have Charcutrie but for some reason opted in favor of Ryteks recipe instead. I still have a feeling that if i tried your recipe substituting chuck for veal that i would probably have similar results. I wont have time this weekend to make another attempt, but when i do im using veal and may use my current recipe just so i can eliminate one cause.

    As for ground ice, i dont have a way short of smashing it with a hammer. Well maybe the blender would work. My grinder though does do a good job of eating up whole cubes. The auger works great as a grinder when i put pressure on the cube with the plunger. however that doesnt work in the recipe to mix in ice that will process along with the meat.

    Oh and i don't really like thier method of mixing with the stand mixer. Its messy and has to be done in batches cause i don't know anyone who has a kitchen aid at home capable of mixing 2-5 pound batches like they outline in the book.

    Double oh...i just noticed that recipe is almost 50% fat and doesnt use any pork besides pork fat.

  16. chef_boy812

    chef_boy812 Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Old Hungarian proverb:
    Making emulsified sausage is like trying to take a poop on the ceiling; It is very difficult.

    I had a metal working buddy, help me make a giant hopper for my Kitchen Aide. It has High sides and a V shaped valley in the bottom, and two legs to help hold up the weight of 5 lb.s of meat while waiting for Pink Floyd (my Mixer's name) to take care of it. I also had to make a new plunger that was longer with a stop ridge halfway down.

    and for emulsifying, I found an old ROBO COUPE, at a resturant supply store, I bought it used for 40 bucks, and it will hold 3 lbs and run through it like a heard of buffalo. It actually dims the lights when you turn it on. I feel so tough when I use it.
  17. pantherfan83

    pantherfan83 Smoking Fanatic

    Yes, I noticed that too. I wonder if you're recipe doesn't have enough fat in it? Sausage is not diet food. When I made the Mortadella, I used chuck instead of veal and it turned out fine.
  18. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    Thats great to know that you did use chuck as a sub and it worked fine. I'll bet then that the fat content is the problem. With the recipe in Charcutrie having about 50% I imagine you need it to properly emulsify and bind everything together.

Share This Page