Discussion in 'Beef' started by vortreker, Jul 16, 2013.
Interesting test, Great results...JJ
Do you have an opinion as to the cause of the some what mushy texture?
I wish it were possible to sample the meat periodically during the cook.
Based on your chart the meat spent 4-4.5 hours at or above 180*F plus a 1 hr rest. This entire time the collagen is breaking down. The result is very soft, fall apart meat. Testing is done with a Probe of a therm or a toothpick. It should penetrat easily. I like the therm probe, it's thicker and can measure the texturev as well as the IT...JJ
You are right on. It was hard to pick the brisket up it was so soft and sme chunks fell off.
Of course I'm not advocating this method---but there may be some useful info in there.
Dr Blonder is repeating experiments on the non-evaporative stalls and tells me they are not due to the breakdown of collagen. More later.
The evaporative stall is a real thing that is certain but I sleep through mine so I don't experience it. No foil for me
I did not say there was no evaporative cooling--there certainly is. I am not advocating one way or another. This meat was foiled to eliminate evaporative cooling. It was done to show that not all stalls are due to evaporative cooling and Dr. Blonder tells me my conclusion as to the cause is wrong. The non evaporative stall is not due to collagen break down. This of course does not mean that collagen is not breaking down as Chef JimmyJ points out it just means that is not what is causing the mini-stalls in my "experiment" with the brisket foiled.
I am going to repeat this at a more typical pit temp of 225-240 to see what happens.
It would seem to me that there has to be a phase change from liquid to vapor in your foil, no?
I mean, if you were containing all the H2O at a 100% air saturation level the foil would have to puff up like the old Jiffypop popcorn.
To my mind, and maybe this is already discussed, one would have to cook in a 100% humidity environment to validate the evap/non-evap data.
my poorly crafted 2 cents.
What I believe is that a stall is evaporative cooling not the breakdown of fat and collagen.
Foiling reduces the stall because it reduces the evaporative cooling process by not allowing the moisture to escape (my non scientific explanation)
I rarely have a significant stall on my stick burner when foiling.
As far as non evaporative stalls... I'm not sure.
I use to research all this stuff because it was intriguing... now I just engoy the cook!
I agree with the both of you. Dr Blonder says at this point the stalls are not due to collage breakdown or fat melting. I am anxiously awaiting his new study on the secondary stall. He did his thesis at MIT on phase change.
I said it in another thread: "Know that stalls happen, pick your own theory that explains the stall and stick to it" This is akin to the particle/wave argument regaring light. It is sometimes best to just use a theory that works at the time. just ask my accountant ))
I also agree, in my stick burner we never really stall, I do see a slowdown in the rate of increase, but in either of my MES's I see a significant stall on any big hunk of meat. I can, if watching even see a stall on a split,bone in breast.
I am fascinated by these discussions, I would really like to know what actually goes on. It seems to me to be bass-ackwards to see a stall in a MES (I fill the pan w/ H2O) but not in my trailer pit.
If you forced me to a diagnosis, I would be confused by the stall in the hi-humid environment in the MES and a stall, where the stick burner is a far drier atmosphere and doesn't stall. Perhaps this is because the meat in the stick burner dries faster and at an earlier temp? On the other hand, the evap in the MES has got to be far less.....making me wonder if evap is really the cause.
I can say that I am far better instrumented on my MES than I am on the East Texas rig......meybe insufficient instrumentation is actually missing the stall in the 'real' pit????
Beats the hell outa me
LOL----Beats the hell out of me too.
I just have a feeling that Dr Blonder's upcoming tests will actually provide some information that will be useful and practical to us smoke hounds.
If you guys miss the publication he has promised to send it to me and I will post it here.
LMBO on the: