Smoked salmon

Discussion in 'Fish' started by waterinholebrew, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. mr t 59874

    mr t 59874 Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    I used to think the same as you, but it has been my personal experience that once it is 100% saturated with the brine regardless of the strength whether it be for 3 hours or 24, it dose not get any saltier.  Much like pickling foods, once they are pickled they are pickled.

    Tom
     
  2. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Your 18 hours may be fine for your brine.

    LOL---Try mixing up my brine, and brine it for 18 hours---See if anyone will eat it.

    Not everything in smoking is the same.

    We all have ways of turning out a good product----None of them are wrong.

    Bear
     
  3. mr t 59874

    mr t 59874 Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Wow Bear,  Do you have any idea the % salinity of your brine?  Mine runs at 80%.  Sounds like yours may be more.  Give me a recipe that I can break down to about a pint and I will test it for you.

    Tom
     
  4. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Don't you ever look at any of my Step by Steps?

    They are in my Signature---Just click on "Smoked Salmon" You can see how everyone loves it. It has my Brine Formula.

    I don't think it even floats an egg.

    Never measured the salinity----I go by taste.

    Bear
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  5. mr t 59874

    mr t 59874 Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Because of the addition of a unknown type of soy sauce and not knowing the type of non iodized salt, canning, table, kosher or sea salt, I am unable to accurately determine the salinity of your brine.  If you are having good results with it, I say continue on.

    Just to clarify the brining time of my recipe, it can be used within 3-4 hours, but as a longer brining time has no effect on it other than maybe firming it up a bit more, I normally let it go longer just for convenience.  Brine one day, dry and smoke the next.

    Tom
     
  6. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    That's alright Tom, I don't need to know the salinity. Thanks Anyway.

    If it tastes good & everybody loves it, you don't need to know what the salinity is.

    If you read my Step by Step in my Signature, you will see that I did 8 smokes, using a total of 19 very big fillets. You would notice that I made changes in every one of those smokes except the last one. The last one was to confirm that the second last one was right on the money.

    The first one, I started with what I found on the internet, because back then there wasn't many guys doing Step by Steps. That first one was to add salt until an egg would float (including the Soy Sauce). That was way to salty, so I cut it way back---Maybe even in half (I don't remember).

    Anyway I ended up with the Brine that is on that Final one in my Signature. Hundreds of people have used it, and loved it. I ended up with that Brine for 6 hours. Then some time later I Brined some Tilapia fillets for 6 hours, and they were too salty (IMO), so I updated my Step by Step to 6 hours for pieces over 1/2" thick, and 4 hours for pieces under 1/2" thick. I have never had anyone tell me it was too salty----You can read the comments on that thread. There are over 170 comments on that thread, but a lot of them are from me thanking everybody for complimenting my Brine & Smoked Salmon method that they followed. That shows that the brining time with my brine does matter as does the thickness of the pieces of fish, which is exactly what I said in my first comment.

    Mine is convenient for me too----Brine one day-------Fridge to start pellicle over night--------Start smoking next morning.

    There are a lot of ways to do the things we do, and as long as they are safe, none of them are wrong.

    Bear
     
  7. akhap

    akhap Smoke Blower

    Well, no... Salinity at edible levels is not adequate to "cure" salmon, period. Hot smoking does NOT cure salmon. It is a cooking method only and the fish has a relatively short shelf life.
     
  8. akhap

    akhap Smoke Blower

    Obviously you have not seen what happens to ice in a very low vacuum. Boiling point is meaningless in a solid, because you are subjecting it to an unnatural condition which could not develop without intervention. The temperature required to make water freeze in a vacuum is way down there.

    What is the point in using a meat thermometer? Is food safety not the major issue, after determining when the product is done? And doesn't "done" relate to safety? Sheesh..............
     
  9. akhap

    akhap Smoke Blower

    And frankly, your pictures show fish compromised by lack of a proper pellicle. Your photos show some fish with the white ooze on clear surfaces without apparent damage. All of your photos show fish with the white ooze. proper fish will not have the ooze and the texture will be superior. Those are facts, not speculation.
     
  10. akhap

    akhap Smoke Blower

    But you are also skinning your salmon IIRC... That changes every aspect of what you are doing and IMO&E not for the better. Every aspect is complicated from holding the fish together, to controlling salinity, to getting it off the racks cleanly to getting the smoke right...
     
  11. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    You do yours your way!

    Over a long time & many smokes done many ways including your way, I settled in to the best way for me. Skinning gives me better smoke flavor, and I have no problem with any results, and apparently neither have hundreds of people who have followed my way.

    I have read your posts, and I don't agree with some of your methods, but I figured if you like it, why should I criticize. Maybe you should do the same.

    Bear
     
  12. dcarch

    dcarch Smoking Fanatic

    As you said, water behavior is a specialty of yours by dint of your extensive education and work, and I respect you very much for that. As a result, and as you have characterized me, "Your understanding of same is clearly limited", I am very confused by your contradictory statements to fundamental science as I understand it.

    First, Ice forms from water under high vacuum, not low vacuum as you said. WoW!

    You agree with me that "Boiling point is meaningless in a solid, because you are subjecting it to an unnatural condition"

    So you are disagreeing with your previous statement that "But it starts boiling at 62 degrees F below zero in a vacuum. You are confusing latent heat effects." Wow!

    "The temperature required to make water freeze in a vacuum is way down there." 

    I AM SHOCKED that your extensive knowledge is so different than my limited understanding, which is, water freezes in vacuum at 32F just the same. Wow!

    "What is the point in using a meat thermometer? Is food safety not the major issue, after determining when the product is done? And doesn't "done" relate to safety? Sheesh.............."

    So your extensive knowledge is telling all food safety experts that they are all wrong? that there are many food toxins which cannot be destroyed by cooking to the correct temperature? Wow!

    dcarch, Wow!!! Lots to learn from experts on the internet!!
     
  13. cmayna

    cmayna Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    WTF is with all this red and blue text? Can't we just move on?  I'm sure everyone has some valid points but I bet the OP regrets opening up this can of worms.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  14. dirtsailor2003

    dirtsailor2003 Smoking Guru OTBS Member

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  15. Bearcarver, I am very new to this smoking thing, and I bought some salmon today I was going to smoke it and now I see all this stuff about pellicle, I have never heard of this before can you explain to me what it is and if your salmon has to have this.
     
  16. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    There are a few ways to do it.

    After brining, I just dry them off & put the pieces on a smoker rack. Then into my extra fridge over night. That begins the pellicle. Then before I smoke, I put them in the smoker at about 130*, without smoke for a hour or two. This usually finishes the pellicle forming. If you don't have an extra fridge, I would put them in the smoker at about 130* without smoke for maybe 1 to 3 hours, or until the surface of the fish become tacky & a bit shiny. If you start smoking before that, it could get slimy & bad tasting.

    Here is my Step by Step on how I do my Salmon:

    http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/91264/final-smoked-salmon-with-recipe-instructions-and-qview

    My links to my Step by Steps are also in my Signature, at the bottom of all of my posts.

    Bear
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
    ette68 likes this.
  17. Ok, I made the  Brine and letting them soak for six hours then into the fridge. Thanks for the step by step and the detail of tacky and shiny. It may seem unimportant to advanced smokers but to us newbys all the more describing what it should look like helps us out more. Thanks, we will see how it turns out tomorrow.
     
  18. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I should have said Dry, Tacky, and Shiny.

    Bear
     
  19. Got it dry, shiny , and tacky, I think I can handle that thanks again.
     
  20. cmayna

    cmayna Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    "ette68" Can I guess,,,,,a '68 Corvette?  Surely not a '68 Mustang LOL
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013

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