Discussion in 'Curing' started by sniper7990, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. sniper7990

    sniper7990 Meat Mopper

    Right, I have seen loads of recopies for salami....

    some call for Prague #2 powder, some don't.

    some call for a 'culture' and some don't

    some just use salt, sugar and herbs as a cure

    I'm really confused.

    I'm hoping to have a go at making some salami this weekend but was only going to use salt, sugar and Prague #2 without any culture

    can I do that?
  2. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    If you plan on placing in the refrigerator for a week or so, then hanging in a curing chamber with proper temp and humidity for 3 months to a year, until proper % loss in moisture has been achieved, the cure #2 is the proper cure to use... 

    If you plan on mixing up the ingredients, refer for a few days then smoking to an internal temp of 160 ish, cure #1 is the proper cure...

    It would help if we saw the complete recipe you want to follow.....
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  3. smokeymose

    smokeymose Master of the Pit

    I'll go with Dave on this one, Sniper. More info please. I've been researching Salami for the Mrs. , and it looks to me that anything that takes #2 is really hard core...
    Are you wanting "Hard Salami"?
  4. sniper7990

    sniper7990 Meat Mopper

    Yeh sorry folks, I'm planning on making air dried salami, possibly chorizo.

    Was planning to hang them for a few weeks until the desired weight loss was achieved (30%?)

    These will not be cooked, but sliced and eaten raw.

    Was planning on using the following ratios:-

    2.5% salt

    1% sugar

    0.25% Prague #2

    plus herbs etc

    Im ok with the function of the #2 cure, but what is the culture for and is it essential?

    I have natural hog casings and natural Ox runners for a larger diameter sausage.

    Cheers guys
  5. The cure is effective against botulism causing bacterium. The culture helps to prevent other types of bacteria from growing and taking hold by lowering the pH of your salami and creating an acidic environment that is not favorable for other bacteria to thrive in. 

    I wouldn't consider not using it simply because it is available and one packet goes a long way. Some people choose not to use it but i do. It also provides flavor profiles which gives you an extra ingredient to experiment with. 

    Good luck!
  6. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

  7. wade

    wade Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    The culture is as much about creating the flavour style of sausage as it is in microbiological control. The culture is made from a blend of lactobacillus bacteria that metabolise the sugars (glucose) in the sausage into lactic acid. This lowers the pH (increases the acidity) of the sausage which both helps inhibit the growth of bacterial spores like botulinum but also gives the sausage flavour the traditional acidic sharpness.

    There are many different variations of "salami", some are fermented and others not. If you are looking to achieve the slightly sharp salami taste that we are used to in our delicatessens then you will need to add the culture. It is not absolutely necessary for bacterial control (as has been mentioned above) as you will also be adding nitrite/nitrate and will be drying it.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  8. sniper7990

    sniper7990 Meat Mopper

    Brilliant, cheers guys for all your input.

    I'm going to have a crack at doing these today without a culture, once I've managed to get some sleep......its 5am now and been up since 4am with the dreaded Man-Flue, so may not survive long enough to make my salami anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  9. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    This is my uneducated opinion....     Different "aged cured" meats from different countries all have a different flavor....   Could be the bacteria...    some meat aging places may be next to a milk / cheese farm....  some next to wineries...  some in the mountains etc...   each locale has it's own specific flora and fauna and bacteria that is prolific in that specific "climate"....  Over the years, scientists separated the bacteria strain from each local that contributed to the specific flavor from that region....   each region had different temperature ranges and humidity....   each culture thrived in that environment and affected the final flavor.....  

    That is why, specific cultures are sold to mimic the flavor from specific regions and temp and humidity is different from the next......

    The flavor of your sausage will be specific to the bacteria in "Snipers basement" or wherever the meat was processed...  The sausage of 200 years ago, the meat was usually processed on the property and there were no "outside the region" influences....
  10. chewmeister

    chewmeister Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Sniper, do you have a dedicated curing chamber that can maintain the proper temp and RH? If not you could be flirting with danger if you're planning on air drying. If you don't have a curing chamber, look into using the Umai material.
  11. atomicsmoke

    atomicsmoke Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Culture is not essential. But is the difference between a plain dried sausage and real charcuterie. Mold too.If you've been in a proper charcuterie shop that is what it smells like inside.

    I do both (w and w/o), they are both tasty, but you need to try at some point fermented if you want to blow your olfactory and gustatory senses away.

    You've done a lamb prosciutto, a pig leg is drying at your place. Other than the flu I don't know what's stopping you from making a salami.
  12. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    This note has been taken from Len Poli's site on Making Salami at home...

  13. sniper7990

    sniper7990 Meat Mopper

    Ok. So had a bash at this. Only a small quantity to start with and these are currently in the refrigerator. Some Italian style salami and some chorizo
  14. atomicsmoke

    atomicsmoke Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Culture or no culture?
  15. sniper7990

    sniper7990 Meat Mopper

    That's no culture mate.....mainly coz I couldt find any locally and just couldn't wait to order off the net lol
  16. sniper7990

    sniper7990 Meat Mopper

    well, I took them out of the fridge and hung them in the house.

    Finally decided to try them yesterday and I was really surprised with the results!!!

    Chorizo on the left and Italian salami on the right.

    Didn't get any mould formation on these at all

    Think I put a bit too much Paprika in the Chorizo, but can adjust that any time.

    Just a quick question, I use Ox Runners as casings as they were the largest I could find at the time. But what casings are uses on the larger diameter salami's you see on the deli counter, about 3-4 inch?
  17. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  18. sniper7990

    sniper7990 Meat Mopper

    I'm still here, not died of the flu......or poisoned myself with my salami LOL

    Cheers Dan , yep, found a UK supplier so will have a crack with those at a later date, may try to make Haggis!!!

    One  more question (sorry!!!!)?????

    Storage......don't want them to dry out any more so was thinking of using the food vacuum sealer I got for Christmas. If I seal them up and keep them in the fridge, how long will they keep for?
  19. atomicsmoke

    atomicsmoke Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Months...many months.

    How do you like them?
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  20. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Yeap, What Atomicsmoke said.

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