Reverse flow FLOP!!!

Discussion in 'Reverse Flow' started by uga fan, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    Thanks guys!! U make a fella proud to be a member of this forum!! Wife is pissed to say the least bc it won't work.. I on the other hand feel challenged!!! I mean geez, u don't need an engineering degree from MIT to understand heat source and air flow!! The measurements of the cooking chamber are 5 ft long with a diameter of 31 inches.. The firebox dimensions are 20x20x25. The chimnies are 3 inch square and 20 inches tall. The vent into the cooker
    6x17, is 4 inches below the top of the firebox, which I believe is too low.. Also, the two dampers on the firebox, the top damper is above the vent to the cooker. This makes it completely useless because when it's open, it acts as an exhaust not an intake.. As far as the two smoke stacks go, the seller said that was only to be used when starting the fire and getting the draft started. He recommended it be closed at all other times.. I promise to get some pics posted soon of the interior of the firebox and cooking chamber.. Got a lot on my plate tonight because I was using flawed cooker to cater a BBQ tomorrow.. Now I am having to double up on the old small cooker to get it done in time. My opinions are firebox too small, not enough correctly placed dampers, cook chamber vent too small and chimney too small.. But I'm not the expert, u guys are!! If someone needs pics right away, send me an email and I can take a few with my phone and email them back.. Don't have time for the whole upload thing right now.. Thanks again guys!!! My email is [email protected]
     
  2. bruno994

    bruno994 Master of the Pit

    This forum is my favorite of all the BBQ ones I am on.  I will find myself spending more time on others the week of comps, but I always return here for help and to help when I can.  Great bunch of guys and gals hanging out here.  Good luck on your BBQ job, feel bad for you expecting to be able to use the new, spacious rig and then...nothing.  I feel for you.  Keep in mind, none of us need the pics, we are all just interested in the guts of your pit and look forward to helping you.  You get them posted on your time, not ours.  Good point on the top firebox intake, I wasn't even thinking that the top one was way too high, it would be acting like an exhaust.  Option would be to either always leave that one closed or take out and patch the sheet metal. Then order a or make if you have the metal working capabilities some pinwheel dampers and put one on the backside of the firebox, giving you plenty of intake (such as these: http://kck.com/dampers/bbq_air-damper_4.html  , got 2 of these on my pit.  I get what they are saying about the second stack, as far as getting the fire going, but it is completely unnecessary.  Might want to take that off as well and patch the hole where it once stood.  Biggest job is probably going to be enlarging the opening between your firebox and chamber.  In no time, you will be seeing that thin, blue, 'Ninja" smoke coming out of your new rig.
     
  3. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Firebox is 66% of what it should be....increase it by 50%

    recommended chimney volume is 500 cubic inches.. yours is about 70

    a 6" stack 20 inches long would work

    firebox air inlet should be 30 sq inches...  yours are way too small just from the picture.... 

    firebox to cook chamber opening is 20% too big which is fine, EXCEPT it should be below the reverse flow plate..... 

    The firebox should be removed and lowered so the top of the firebox is even with the RF plate, or close...   

    Chow is on.... I'll be back....   Dave
     
  4. Looking at the top air inlet on the firebox, it is higher than the opening from the firebox to the cook chamber. If I am correct in my observation your heat is going out the top vent rather than into the cook chamber. That also would be why you need to keep opening the door to keep your burn going.

    The bottom line is, the firebox is way to high in relation to the cook chamber and therefore no air flow. No air flow = no heat.

    If it was me, I would demand a refund. Good Luck
     
  5. jckdanls 07

    jckdanls 07 Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    OK.. So I went to their web site... and the FIRST thing that pops up is... "Customer Satisfaction Is Our Top Priority".. uummmmmm I understand it's a drive but I believe I would have to be making that drive to get some satisfaction... I mean with all the work that needs to be done to get a BRAND NEW smoker to work... but that's just me and my hard earned money
     
  6. Wow, Started my first post an hour ago, had dinner, etc, came back finished post then saw the problem was already discovered. Oh well, at least UGA fan you have an idea of the problem now.
     
  7. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    I definitely have no metal working skills!! I spent three hours welding "leaks" in the smoker today.. My welds are shameful, but the leaks stopped so who cares!! I do have several friends in the metal fabrication business and my very best friend owns a metal wholesaling business.. His is thinner metal used mainly for siding or roofing, but he has contacts that can get me the metal I need!! So to recap, I need to cut off the firebox completely.. Make it 50-60% bigger.. I'm gonna lower it down 2-3 inches so the top is flush with the vent. I also thoought about adding slope to the firebox to force the heat into the chamber.. Maybe make one end 1 inch lower than the other.. I'm gonna add vents all over the new firebox to increased air intake, and all vents will be BELOW the level off the "fire".. I will remove the useless chimney and modify the other. Dave if I removed the one useless chimney and relocated it next to the other chimney, would that be sufficient?? What is the benefit of having a longer/taller chimney?
     
  8. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    Well my take is this.. Yes this smoker is in need of repair... And yes it sucks working on a brand new smoker.. However, if I had gotten this style smoker anywhere else it would be $2-3k higher!!! So, I am willing to modify/improve or repair/replace because at the end of the day, I have I $5 smoker for under $2k!!
     
  9. bruno994

    bruno994 Master of the Pit

    This is what I would do.  I'm interested in how many pits they actually have out there working.  Seems to me they may have numerous pits out on the market (they show 3 on the website), but maybe not so with the reverse flow.  If they had only been members of SMF and researched the reverse flow threads before designing their rig, they would not be having these design flaws.  That's what I did! 
    True.  But of course that depends on how much work and $$$ you got to put into it to make it work.  A 48" Lang original goes for $2500.  They are located in Georgia as well.  My only problem with the Lang smokers is that they don't have slide out cooking grates.  I love my slides, makes Q'ing so much easier.  The one negative with slides, is when you baste, mop or sauce your meat, it's all over your outside shelf as well.  Before starting any major work, I would seriously consider calling them back Monday and trying to work out a refund.  8 hours of road work or not, getting what you paid for is a must.   If you had gotten it off ebay or Craigs List for a steal, then modifications would be part of the process, but being you bought it brand new, surely they will stand by their quality.  Says so on their site.  Just my .02.....but it is your money after all and as long as you and the wife end up happy, that's all that matters.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
  10. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    UGA Fan, I'm back.....  Have you looked at the schematic of a true RF smoker I sent you in post # 9 if this thread ???  Have you used the calculator I sent in post # 5 of this thread ??....  I suggest you do to get an idea of what needs to be done to fix what you have and make it a very good RF Smoker.......  It ain't hard to do..... you have the basics....  If you need any additional help, we are all here to help you make the best smoker possible....    Dave
     
  11. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    UGA Fan, Sorry for my attitude.... The A-Holes that made that smoker do not have a clue what they are doing..... They have duped you and that ticks me off..... How many others have the taken advantage of....  Folks spend hard earned money for a piece of dung....  "Hang 'em all and let G-d sort 'em out" is my buddies motto....  Good motto....   

    I feel better now....   
     
  12. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    Dave, u have no reason to apologize!! Yes I did look at ur design and yes mine is similar... I also have done the calculations and I know the areas needing improvement are my firebox and exhaust.. I also agree that these guys were late to school on the day smoking meat was taught!! But with all that said, I have a solid 60' smoker with two sliding grates, a super nice charcoal grill and a nice trailer with 3500 pound axles with 15 inch wheels... If I can fix their oversites, I will have a top notch system!! All the above only came to a total of $1950.. So if I can redo the areas they failed for under $600, I will have less in it than a new Lang and more cooker.. Right?? The propane cooker on the back makes starting a charcoal chimney a breeze!! No more looking for paper or having ash all over ur cooking grate where u started it.. Set it on the propane and BAM!! I don't however plan on leaving a propane tank next to a hot cooker all the time tho!! These guys are definitely close on the design and concept, and at the price they offered I am capable of a few modifications. In looking at the trailer, I can make my firebox about 30 inches wide, and lowering it to proper height about 16 1/2-17 inches tall.. So what depth/width do I need in order to get proper size? Sorry on wine bottle #2 and math isn't feasible at this point! I beileive 15000 was the "magic number".. I can get a sheet of 1/4 steel for well under $200 and have access to a plasma cutter and several people capable of welding much much better than me!! So I am prepared to go forward and make this work!! With u guys on my team, I have no doubts I can do it!!!
     
  13. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    Dave I just checked out Lang's website.. The 60" Deluxe which has the verticle cooker/charcoal grill on the back retails for $3995.. And that is with 13" wheels and no sliding grates.. I felt this model was the closet comparable model to mine.. So I have a lot of room for improvements for the money!! Agree??
     
  14. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    Not a Fabricator but just an obsevation...Would some cost and effort be saved by Swapping the Fire Box and the Vertical Cabinet?...JJ
     
  15. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    If I did that, the whole reverse flow would need to be reworked as well.. Plus I really like the grill on the rear, will be great when tailgating this year for football games!! Dave I punched the number, looks like I need to go 31x30x17 on the firebox and I will be in business!! I have a metal fabricator coming by Monday so we can work on a design. I am probably gonna go overboard with the intake dampers.. I can always leave them closed if I don't need them, but it sucks babysitting a starving fire!!
     
  16. Just my 2 cents but seems like a lot of work for something brand new and over 2k. How are you going to lower and increase the size of the firebox when it is on the trailer tongue? I say this with no fabricating skills just looking at it.
     
  17. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    I just need to lower the top of the firebox so it's even with the vent to the cooker, not necessarily the whole box.. I can relocate the jack and get the size I need no problem!!
     
  18. daveomak

    daveomak Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Bart, morning....    Do you think rotating the smoker 180 would be doable...  Firebox on the back end....  Then it could be lowered to an acceptable level to accommodate proper heat flow ??

    Remove both of the  3" square stacks, weld in a 6" ID stack at the FB end, 20" exposed to the air and the lower end 4" above the lowest grate..(if you have 2 grates)...

    Is the chamber on the back of the smoker heated using the existing FB ??? If it is separate, it could be rotated and maybe moved for easier access... 

    Just thinking... explore all possibilities... Make it he best it can be on the first modification so you are happy and it is done.... Dave
     
  19. bruno994

    bruno994 Master of the Pit

    I like that idea Dave (rotating the smoker 180).  Probably won't be as easy as just resizing the firebox, because after rotating the whole pit, then you are still going to have to lower and expand the firebox, but rotating would be the idea move.  Of course after rotating the pit, depending on how the charcoal grill is fastened to the smoker, you could move it to the tongue of the trailer.  This would give UGA a much better operating rig.  
     
  20. uga fan

    uga fan Smoke Blower

    Wow, Dave that's alot of work!! I do think it would be the best overall result tho!! I just wonder how much I can dismantle and reinstall without destroying it!! I will talk with my fabricator on Monday and run this option by him. It may be more than he's willing to under take. I was able to reach 230 degrees last night! ! Of course I cheated!! I lowered the tongue so the cook body was higher than the firebox and turbo charged the airflow with a small fan!! I tinkered with different things all night while smoking some butts on the old smoker.. .
     

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