Pastrami Sausage, an Experiment...Advice needed...

Discussion in 'Sausage' started by worktogthr, Mar 7, 2016.

  1. worktogthr

    worktogthr Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    So it is cheap corned beef season at the local supermarkets and I usually cure my own beef for pastrami.  But the $1.97/lb. price tag got me thinking about experimenting with an idea I had but never tried.  I thought about grinding up pastrami seasoned corn beef, stuffing it and smoking it.  Now I am still relatively new to sausage making and I am definitely not a math or science guy.  So figuring out how much pastrami seasoning to mix with ground corned beef makes my head hurt.  So this was what I was thinking

    1.  Rinse store bought corned beef just to get some of the pink curing goo off of it (I will not soak to de-salinate, you'll see why later)

    2.  Rub with my usual pastrami rub (DOES NOT CONTAIN SALT)

    3.  Pop it into the freezer on a sheet tray for a few hours until its almost frozen

    4.  Cube it up and grind the spiced corned beef through my grinder

    5.  Fry a test patty to determine if more pastrami spice is needed

    6.  Stuff into prepared casings

    7.  Smoke it for about 2-3 hours or until it reaches the color I desire 

    8.  Eat it and experience epic failure or pastrami dog bliss.

    So.. the reason I am not planning to soak it to remove salt is because I am not adding any additional salt to the mix.

    So here are some questions:

    1.  Is there an easier way to determine how much pastrami rub should go into the sausage mix?  Is my rub, grind, and check method          going to lead to a lot of wasted corned beef?

    2.  Do you still think the end product will be to salty if I don't soak the corned beef for a while?

    3.  Can I assume that this corned beef which is cured and then ground can safely be smoked at temps between 130-170?

    4.  Any other additional ingredients that might be necessary in the mix?  NFDM maybe?

    As always, thanks in advance for your help.  Looking forward to try this!

    -Chris
     
  2. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    The only answer I'm sure of is #2, yes it will be too salty if you don't soak it.

    Chef Jimmy J would be able to answer the others.

    Sounds like it would be real tasty sausage.

    Al
     
  3. tropics

    tropics Smoking Guru SMF Premier Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    Sounds good Chris

    1.  Is there an easier way to determine how much pastrami rub should go into the sausage mix?  Is my rub, grind, and check method          going to lead to a lot of wasted corned beef?

    2.  Do you still think the end product will be to salty if I don't soak the corned beef for a while?  Yes it will be salty soak it.

    3.  Can I assume that this corned beef which is cured and then ground can safely be smoked at temps between 130-170? yes just like when you make Pastrami

    4.  Any other additional ingredients that might be necessary in the mix?  NFDM maybe? yes again

    As for the amount of rub that can be tricky start with a few TBSPs an fry test.

    Richie

    [​IMG]
     
  4. donr

    donr Smoking Fanatic

    I have thought about this only using a tea of pickling spices, salt, curing salt & pastrami rub mixed into ground beef.  But with super cheap corned beef, I may try it your way.
     
  5. worktogthr

    worktogthr Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Thanks everyone for the feed back. You all pointed out that it would be too salty if I didn't soak it and you're right in saying that I could always add salt back to the mix after the test patty.
     
  6. I would boil it the way I would boil a regular corned beef for boiled dinner then cube & freeze grind with pastrami seasoning & stuff with high temp swiss but it maybe a bit dry & crumbly. Maybe use some pork butt as a binder similar to the Ruben brat I made a couple of weeks ago.
     
  7. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Tuff to say how much seasoning to use, a good starting point would be 1%-2% of the meat block. I'd start low and fry up test batches until you like it.
     
  8. worktogthr

    worktogthr Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Yeah the seasoning amount is the tough part.  I am going to try a light coating of seasoning on the corned beef at first, cube, freeze, grind, mix and fry up a test patty.  I could always add more if it seems bland.
     
  9. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    Your plan sounds good to me. Easy to add spices...JJ
     
  10. worktogthr

    worktogthr Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    My only worry with adding spices, testing, and then adding more...How do you know if you have overmixed sausage?  Is that possible?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  11. dirtsailor2003

    dirtsailor2003 Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    So google Reuben dog - Adam Gertler.  I have used this recipe twice now and the pastrami dogs are really good.

    For using store bought corned beef I like to soak it for 3-5 hours with a potato or two in the water. Changing the water and potato every hour. Don't throw away the tater, they cook up fine and don't ever seem to be too salty.
     
  12. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Thanks for that Case, it looks interesting.

    Yes Worktogthr you can over mix, so use your best guess when you start so you don't do it tomany times. Try to incorporate the seasoning gently without developing to much bind. sort of like folding them in.
     
  13. dirtsailor2003

    dirtsailor2003 Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I should mention that I adjusted the cure #1 to fall in line with 1 teaspoon per 5 pounds ratio. I also have smoked them both times I made them.
     
  14. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    Dan, Can you elaborate on this? What is the result of too much mixing? This is just not something I recall seeing so I defer to your expertise. What is mixed more than Hot Dogs with often multiple grinds followed by hardcore emulsification in a food processor, the ultimate bind...JJ
     
  15. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Just talking from experience here and I don't know the science behind it but I've found that to much mixing will give ya a tight rubbery texture. I assumed it ha to do with extracting more and more myosin as you mix.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  16. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    Hmmm...Makes sense. I don't think in this case, a couple of additions of spice will have adverse affects but I can see it is possible to go too far. Great answer and thank you...[​IMG]...JJ
     
  17. worktogthr

    worktogthr Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    You guys are getting all scientific now haha. The experiment will begin as soon as my new casings arrive in the mail.
     
  18. worktogthr

    worktogthr Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Checked out that recipe and it does look great. This beef is already "corned" so i couldn't use this recipe as is. But it's definitely something I will try if my experiment fails.
     
  19. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    Starting out, a tough question is, " Which casing Hog or Sheep? " Spend 20 years and the questions get deep..." Which has greater effect on Bind. Sodium salts Ionic Bond or Covalent Bonds, on manually denatured Myosin? ". [​IMG][​IMG]  

    Looking Forward to this thread and results. My Daughter just brought home 10 pounds of a $1.88 per Corned Points...[​IMG]  ...JJ
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016

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