I just saw Giada from the Foodnetwork...

Discussion in 'Food Safety' started by richoso1, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. abigail4476

    abigail4476 Jeff's Woman SMF Premier Member

    You're right, of course.  My bad.  :)  

    I just think it's overkill (npi) to pick on shows that don't focus on cooking "low and slow."  The safety rules aren't exactly the same, and most of the shows are aimed at home cooks cooking on the stovetop or in the oven. 

    This forum specializes in smoking, which is cooking slowly at low temperatures, and there are some major safety concerns involved in that type of cooking.  Therefore, those who have expert opinions on the topic are highly appreciated.  However, when you cross into the arena of everyday cooking, which is usually hot and quick, there are definitely some distinctions, and it can become highly debatable. 
  2. abigail4476

    abigail4476 Jeff's Woman SMF Premier Member

    I have a bone to pick with the USDA anyway, as they prefer all my fish to be cooked, and I'm a sashimi eater.  :)  

    I understand that we should follow safe guidelines, but there will be occasional exceptions, and a few risks here and there.  I still like a raw egg in my shakes and my steaks rare or medium rare, habits I inherited from my father and never gave up, in spite of nagging from my husband.  
  3. tulsajeff

    tulsajeff Master of the Pit Staff Member Administrator OTBS Member

    Geez louise Abi... stop causing trouble already!! Don't make me pull your mod badge[​IMG]

    I think everyone has to decide for themselves what they are comfortable with and the USDA is not always right.. there, I said it. For years the USDA recommended 180 for poultry so you have a decade of folks who think dry turkey is normal fare.

    Thank God they finally saw the light and changed it to 165.

    The USDA is a standard that we try to follow within certain boundaries however, at my house, a lot of logic is applied. For instance, everyone debates on where the chicken should be located in the smoker. Normally I follow the chicken on the bottom rule but if I was smoking chicken with brisket and started them at the same time, chicken would obviously go on top since it would reach it's done temperature while the brisket was still somewhat raw.

    That is called allowing common sense to play a part.

    In most cases I would start the brisket then add the chicken about 4 hours before the brisket is done in order to get them done at the same time. In that case, the chicken would be on the bottom.

    There is a ton  of debate on this subject.. and I have to do what makes the most sense to me. I agree that what works for Giada on food network while cooking it hot and fast may not always apply to the low and slow methods that we employ here.

    As far as eating raw eggs and raw fish... not happening inside of my skeleton!![​IMG]

    I do eat the occasional medium rare steak or prime rib[​IMG]
  4. abigail4476

    abigail4476 Jeff's Woman SMF Premier Member

  5. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    abi...........for the most part i am new to this world of BBQ and i do not know what med or med-hi settings are. the only thing i cooked low and slow before BBQ was prime ribs and sauce reductions. i guess i am brainwashed from close to 30yrs of never mixing raw chix and any other meats when marinating.......my mentors as well as health dept reps would have never permited this, i guess old habits are hard to break.
  6. abigail4476

    abigail4476 Jeff's Woman SMF Premier Member

    I wouldn't be inclined to mix raw chicken with anything either.  Generally speaking, I'm scared to death of raw poultry and try to make sure it doesn't touch anything else in the kitchen!  However, I guess I was just thinking that as long as was all cooked through, it would turn out alright in the end.  I see your point about sitting in a marinade, though.  

    Imperfections aside, Food Network still remains one of my favorite vices.  Iron Chef America is my favorite, followed closely by Chopped.  Jeff and I were watching Rachael Ray one night, and she didn't wash her hands after handling raw meat.  Or, at least, the show didn't FILM that happening, ergo it made it look like she hadn't washed her hands.  I know that I wash my hands a gazillion times a day, especially when I'm dealing with raw meat, so I think it's likely that she did wash her hands even though it appeared to the viewer that she didn't.  Big faux pas, IMO. 

    We have a family friend that visits us from time to time, and loves to cook for us.  I have to watch him like a hawk in the kitchen, because he chops his veggies and meat on the same cutting board.  I'm constantly grabbing the cutting boards, handing him new ones and washing the ones he just used.  LOL!!!  

    ...prime rib...that sounds really good!  I'm getting hungry!  [​IMG]

    Prime rib...that sounds really good.  I'm getting hungry! [​IMG]

    Prime rib...that sounds really good.  I'm getting hungry! [​IMG]
  7. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    no one cooks in my kitchen..........well, i guess my girlfriend sometimes and i only let my mom do little things on once in a while! BTW both are very good cooks!
  8. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    ....and abi, what the heck are those funny 'A' 's?
  9. meateater

    meateater Smoking Guru SMF Premier Member

    There sounded ou ! German.

  10. abigail4476

    abigail4476 Jeff's Woman SMF Premier Member

    I don't know what the crazy A's are...they've been appearing in my posts.  It's a bug--I sent an email via the feedback form earlier.  Sometimes when I refresh a couple of times, they disappear.  *weird*
  11. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Maybe Abi bought her computer in Canada, A?

    Never can tell, A?


  12. ptbrauch

    ptbrauch Newbie

    That would depend on what else was mixed into the smoothie.  If the pH was kept low enough, then from a food safety standpoint, then I wouldn't have any issues--especially if it were cooked.  However, from a flavor stand point; a raw chicken (or even cooked for that matter) smoothie, I'd pass. 

    One flawed assumption you're making here is that all chicken is always contaminated with salmonella.  That's not the case.  The organism isn't just floating around in the air, looking for a piece of raw chicken to land on.  Its got to already be there--gotten there from overspray of the hoses at the processing plant, inadequate cleaning at the processing plant, or some other source of contamination.  Though not always successful, meat packing plants go to great lengths to minimize pathogen contamination. In all likelihood, chicken left out overnight would show signs of spoilage organisms, giving it an off odor, color, or flavor; making it unappetizing to eat.   
  13. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Hmmm, In other words the odds are that if it doesn't look bad, smell bad, or taste bad, it's OK ???

    What are the odds that if you take your bow & arrow out, come to full draw and shoot straight up, that the arrow won't hit you when it comes down? The odds are astronomical. So would you do it? If so, how many times would you do it?

    "Deer Hunter"?

    "Russian Roulette"?

    I'll pass,

  14. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    i don't care if you put a sterilized piece of chicken in solid o.j. and left it on the counter for 12-24hrs and then cooked it to 165............you will be making very quick trips to the restroom for at least a day or so. i never singled out salmonela, ecoli,or staph or anything else that could make you sick..........there are pathogens in the air and on everything.
  15. eman

    eman Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member

    One of the sites i visited said that 70 % of the chicken that is sent to market is cotaminated w/ something that will make us ill.
  16. venture

    venture Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Chicken should always go on the bottom cause pork fat tastes better on chicken than chicken fat does on pork.
  17. gnubee

    gnubee Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I put Chicken on the bottom rack in the smoker for two reasons. First so it doesn't drip contaminants on other types of meat and also because It has a ton of fat drip off of it and I don't like chicken fat in my ribs, abt's, fatties etc. I try to stagger the meats vertically so the drips miss the food below.

    Post #12 Quote The product that requires the highest temp to cook should be on the bottom.

    What am I missing here? I always thought that the higher temps of an oven were near the top of the oven not the bottom. Although in my MES I believe that the temps are pretty much even throughout the oven.

    Regarding the case in question, if the marinading is done over a short period say a half to three quarters of an hour I see no harm in combining the meats, but if they are left in the fridge overnight I'd say no. Having said that personally I'd use two bowls instead of one.

    I make tamales using pounded & sliced chicken breast, sliced pork tenderloin, and sliced beef tenderloin all marinated in taco sauce. I place the meats in a mason jar with the sauce and some spices then use my vaccume bagger to suck out the air. After 20 minutes in the fridge The taco sauce is infused into the now tenderized meat. This then goes into a sizzling hot wok with some garlic. I do the veggies in a seperate wok, it makes the timing much easier. The vaccuming of the meats speeds up the process, thus reducing the marinating time. I regard this method as being perfectly safe. 
  18. rw willy

    rw willy Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member

    So true.

    I feel I am a sanitary worry wart but....

    You can't tell me that the drop of raw chicken juice that falls on a rack of ribs in a 225 smoker is still crawling with germs.  If I dipped the temp probe in chicken juice then placed it in the smoker the bugs would be dead.  The surface of the ribs is at the air temp.,  Now if I placed a chicken on top of cooked ribs then pulled the ribs, that would be bad.

    Be safe and smoke on.
  19. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    But then again:

    Foodborne Pathogens:

    Staphylococcus aureus  (staph) - Bacteria are destroyed by cooking and processing but can be re-introduced via mishandling. The bacteria can then produce a toxin which is not destroyed by further cooking.


  20. roklimo

    roklimo Smoke Blower

    On a lighter note, when I watch Giada I seldom can focus on the food or the recipe...[​IMG]

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