Digital temp mod

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I'm not sure how I missed it before, but the MyPIN PID does indeed have a setting to control cycle time.  It was defaulted to 1 second, which is why I had the fast cycling. 

I set it to 5 seconds last night, and was much happier with the result.  This weekend I'll tune it more thoroughly, and try to come up with a cycle time that balances frequency of the solenoid with temperature stability.  

Then I'll fire up a pulled pork for a real test! 
 
Had my first big cook today, and I'm very happy with the performance of the control system.  Pics of the Q below. 

I settled on a 10 second cycle time, which was long enough to not be bothersome, but short enough to stay within about +/- 2 degrees of my setpoint.  When I decided to build this, it was primarily to not have to keep going out and tweaking the gas up/down to maintain settle into my temp.  However, I found two other big benefits I hadn't anticipated.

First, since holding an exact temp was tricky before, if I opened the box to adjust something, the temp would drop, and it would take a while to come back up.  I could have turned the gas up for a bit, but then I'd be back to struggling to dial in the temp I want to keep.  With this setup, opening the door drops the temp, but the PID kicks it into full burner until it is caught up, so it gets back to temp very quickly.

Second, previously if I wanted to increase the temp 5 or 10 degrees during a cook, I'd be back to fiddling to get it to hold the new temp I wanted.  This was annoying enough that I didn't really adjust the temp very much unless it was far out of bounds.  With this controller, I decided I wanted to bump up from 225 to 235 to speed up the cook, and it was a snap to do.

The one issue I found is that I mounted the PID thermometer into the back, and realized I'd rather have the location be more flexible.  I found a thermocouple with an alligator clip on Auber's website, and ordered one of those.  This will let me position the PID thermometer wherever it makes sense for the food/rack configuration of a given cook.


 
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Sorry, I missed notification of this question.  I originally used the MyPIN PID.  It worked fine, but I couldn't find the setting to control cycle time, and ordered an Auber SYL-2362 to replace it.  I then found that setting, and realized I just didn't understand the term they used on the MyPIN.  By then the Auber had already shipped, so I repurposed the MyPIN for a homemade Sous Vide controller.

The Auber seems slightly better made, and the documentation is far better, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the MyPin either.

Glen
 
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Man this has got me thinking. I'm liking what I see so far. I might suggest an door interupt, to prevent the PID from kicking the burner into high gear until you close the door. That combined with a ramping PID might be about perfect for me.
 
Late to the party! But let me say this thread is great! How is the build working to date?

Points!
Thanks! 

It's working great. Getting ready to set it up again now that winter is drifting away.  I used id 8-10 times in the late summer and fall. 

Temperatures were very stable, both high and low.  Low for ribs and pulled pork, high for smoked whole Turkey for thanksgiving.  The 10 second cycle time has worked well for the PID.  This still keeps temps within a couple of degrees, but avoids fast cycling of the solenoid.

The safety shutoff worked perfectly when it was needed (only once).  On a very windy day I got an alert from my temperature monitor of a low temperature.  Went out and the safety was engaged and the gas was off, as expected. It's also very easy to start.  Press the bypass button to get the gas flowing, light it, and wait 5 seconds for the safety thermocouple to heat up.

I replaced my hardwired thermocouple with a panel mount connector and plug, so I can unplug it when I put the smoker away:

www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=119

That also let me pickup another thermocouple, so I have a couple of different mounting options depending on what I am cooking.  Note that if you do this, it's important to use a connector that uses the correct metal for each pin, or it will skew the reading.  I initially bought a cheaper one from Amazon that looked like zinc coated metal on both of them, and my readings were way off.  The Auber one works great.

Glen
 
 
Man this has got me thinking. I'm liking what I see so far. I might suggest an door interupt, to prevent the PID from kicking the burner into high gear until you close the door. That combined with a ramping PID might be about perfect for me.
Can you elaborate on a ramping PID?  What's the difference?

As far as the door, I haven't found it a problem that it kicks in quickly when I open the door.  I usually have a water pan, so it's not like I get a blast of heat on my hands while I'm tending to the food.  It does send some heat up around the sides and back, but that mostly serves to slowdown the heat loss while it's open.  

Glen
 
Thanks for the update Glen. I really should have done something like this to my GOSM years ago. Time to go visit the hardware store I guess!
 
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Can you elaborate on a ramping PID?  What's the difference?
A ramping PID allows you set the smoker to run at a certain temp for a set amount of time. And "ramp the temp up with each set time.

1hr at 130°, then the next setting may be 1 hr @ 140°, 2 hr @ 160° etc. Mostly used when smoking sausage and jerky. I typically run 1 hr @ 130, then increase the temp e10° very hour until the smoker reaches 170°. Some PID's will also have a second therm that will shut the smoker off once the IT of the meat reaches where you want it. Auber has a PID that allows you to program 8 steps.
 
 
A ramping PID allows you set the smoker to run at a certain temp for a set amount of time. And "ramp the temp up with each set time.

1hr at 130°, then the next setting may be 1 hr @ 140°, 2 hr @ 160° etc. Mostly used when smoking sausage and jerky. I typically run 1 hr @ 130, then increase the temp e10° very hour until the smoker reaches 170°. Some PID's will also have a second therm that will shut the smoker off once the IT of the meat reaches where you want it. Auber has a PID that allows you to program 8 steps.
Ok, got it.  Thanks for explaining.  
 
After reading this thread and a couple of other ones, I think I want to put some kind of safety valve in my setup that I am creating.  I am using a propane burner from Northern Tool.


I am planning on doing something kind of like this design, which is going to be in a file cabinet.


Do you think, if I do the 2 vents like they did, would I need a way to close them or should I just leave them open to get the air flow in there for the burner?  

I want to put something like GlennWillits did will the safety shutoff valve and the Thermocouple, but I am not sure on what would work.  Would the first to links to Amazon for the Mr. Heater valve and Thermocouple be what I need?
 
 
After reading this thread and a couple of other ones, I think I want to put some kind of safety valve in my setup that I am creating.  I am using a propane burner from Northern Tool.


I am planning on doing something kind of like this design, which is going to be in a file cabinet.


Do you think, if I do the 2 vents like they did, would I need a way to close them or should I just leave them open to get the air flow in there for the burner?  

I want to put something like GlennWillits did will the safety shutoff valve and the Thermocouple, but I am not sure on what would work.  Would the first to links to Amazon for the Mr. Heater valve and Thermocouple be what I need?
In your design, I think you'd need to mount it outside of the unit,  as I don't think the valve part is meant to be heated.  So the main question is whether the thermocouple is long enough to route inside to the flame. 

I'm also unsure about the rubber hose being inside the heating space.   I don't know, but that looks dangerous to me.
 
I wasn't planning on using the rubber hose inside of the cabinet, I was planning on running copper out the rear of the drawer and out the back of the cabinet.  I'm glad you said that the safety valve can't be heated, that throws another wrench in my design.  I might have to lose the drawer plan all together and just put the burner on the bottom of the cabinet and run the pipe through the side of the cabinet with the safety valve and thermocouple outside the cabinet.  
 
 
...  I'm glad you said that the safety valve can't be heated, that throws another wrench in my design.  ...
I don't know for sure that it can't, but it's adapted from a part for a Propane space heater, and this part isn't exposed to any high in the original usage.  Lacking confirmation otherwise, that's certainly safest assumption.
 
Glen Willits - Doing some more looking and is the a BTU rating on the safety shut off valve that you put in?  I noticed that the burners that they usually go on are usually 10,000-15,000, and the burner I am going to use is up to 35,000.  I just wonder if that matters, or if I ran my burner on wide open if the valve would close.
 
I don’t want to hijack this thread but I am somewhat on the same track.   I’ve been smoking for about 4 years now with a UDS controlled with a PID.   Works great until you have to open the lid and let in 55 gal of air.   The temp then spikes 50 – 80 degrees and takes about ½ hour to stabilize again.   So I am in the process of converting it to propane and use an AMNPS to provide the smoke.   I have it mostly built.   I used a 40K btu burner and use a pilot and thermopile to run a millivolt gas valve.   I use my old Auber PID in on/off mode to control the gas valve and temp.   Have not smoked anything with it yet but ran operational checks.   The problem I have is - if the temp is set to 225 with the hysteresis set at 15 for testing, the gas turns on at 210 and off at 225 but the cycle is fairly fast and about 5 deg overshoot in both directions.   I could decrease the difference in the on/off temps but that would increase the cycle speed.   So I want to put in a sand heat sink to slow down the cycles, provide a baffle between flame and meat and decrease the overshoots.    So what I would appreciate info on is:  

 1.   How big should the sand pan/tray be (I definitely want to go sand and not water)?   The burner is about 6” in diameter and flame height controlled with a needle valve.   I will probably go to Goodwill to get a pan or pot and take the handle off.

2.   How deep should the sand be?

3.   How high above the flame should the pan be?

I have been watching this site for a while and appreciate all the knowledgeable advice and opinions  given out.    Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Jim
 
 
I finished my build this weekend, and it's working very well.  It maintains a rock-solid temp.  The only issue I'm having is that once it reaches temp, the cycle time is shorter than I'd prefer.  It cycles the heat on and off rapidly.  I'd like to find a way to increase the cycle time, even if that means a slightly larger temperature swing.  A few degrees would be fine.  

The safety shutoff works great too.  Thanks to dcarch for pushing me to build it in from the beginning.  Here is a picture of the safety shutoff.  


It's sold by Mr Heater as a safety shutoff to their propane heaters.  It has a thermocouple that senses the heat at the burner, and a push button to bypass the safety for lighting it.  You hold the button in after lighting for about 5 seconds, and then release and it stays on.  If the burner goes out, it shuts off the gas in about 20-30 seconds, once the thermocouple cools. 

Here's a picture of the solenoid and needle valve mechanism, before and after installation.



This is the control box.  It's a Carlon weatherproof junction box from Home Depot, and a clear in-use 2-gang outlet cover.  I cut out the divider between the two outlet sides to create one large rectangle.  The PID is cut into the cover for the junction box, and the clear cover is just attached to the junction box so that it sits over the PID and switch.




Finally, here's a demo video, although it's a bit large:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109906609/Smoker%20Controller/demo.mp4
GlenWillits- What parts did you use to hook up the thermocouple?  I tried to hook it up yesterday and I couldn't find parts at Menards or Home Depot that would go from the burner to the Thermocouple and than to the tank.  Looking at your first picture, it looks like you have only 2 parts on either side of the Thermocouple.  If you could let me know what they are and where you bought them that would be great.  I also have to try and exchange my burner as when I hooked it up yesterday, it leaks.  I haven't even used it yet, it's only a month old.
 
 
GlenWillits- What parts did you use to hook up the thermocouple?  I tried to hook it up yesterday and I couldn't find parts at Menards or Home Depot that would go from the burner to the Thermocouple and than to the tank.  Looking at your first picture, it looks like you have only 2 parts on either side of the Thermocouple.  If you could let me know what they are and where you bought them that would be great.  I also have to try and exchange my burner as when I hooked it up yesterday, it leaks.  I haven't even used it yet, it's only a month old.
For anyone else who reads this later, you're asking about the safety valve, not the thermocouple. The thermocouple is the part that connects to the safety valve, and sits in the burner to detect the flame. 

As best I recall, looking at the picture, here's the parts I used, from the supply hose to the smoker (edited after confirmation from fuzzy0026 of correct size for safety valve):

1) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female
2) 3/8" NPT male x 1/8" NPT female
3) Safety Valve
4) 3/8" NPT male x 1/8" NPT female (Same as part 2)
5) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female (Same as part 1)
6) 3/8" Flare female x 3/8" Flare female 

You basically need to go from 3/8" Flare on the hose to 1/8" NPT on the safety valve, and back to 3/8" Flare on the smoker.  In addition, I was worried that after tightening all the parts, the safety valve button might not be in a desirable position, so I added part 6 which is a rotating 3/8 Flare coupling. I was able to tighten everything starting at the hose end and get it locked down, and then screw the last flare fitting onto the smoker, keeping the push button pointing out while I tightened it. 

In addition, I couldn't find a single part (at my Home Depot) to go from 3/8 Flare male to 1/8" NPT female, so I had to use 2 parts.  If you can find a single part, 1 and 2 would become a single part, and 4 and 5 would become a single part. 

Truthfully, my fittings may not be the best or only way.  I went to HD with my safety valve, and knowing I needed to have a 3/8" flare male on one end of the final contraption, and a 3/8" flare female on the other end, with the ability to rotate it into alignment, and I played around with fittings until I found a combination that worked. If I had landed at a store with different stocked fittings, I might have ended up with a different approach. 

Glen
 
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For anyone else who reads this later, you're asking about the safety valve, not the thermocouple. The thermocouple is the part that connects to the safety valve, and sits in the burner to detect the flame. 

As best I recall, looking at the picture, here's the parts I used, from the supply hose to the smoker:

1) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female
2) 3/8" NPT male x 1/4" NPT female
3) Safety Valve
4) 3/8" NPT male x 1/4" NPT female (Same as part 2)
5) 3/8" Flare male x 3/8" NPT female (Same as part 1)
6) 3/8" Flare female x 3/8" Flare female 

You basically need to go from 3/8" Flare on the hose to 1/4" NPT on the safety valve, and back to 3/8" Flare on the smoker.  In addition, I was worried that after tightening all the parts, the safety valve button might not be in a desirable position, so I added part 6 which is a rotating 3/8 Flare coupling. I was able to tighten everything starting at the hose end and get it locked down, and then screw the last flare fitting onto the smoker, keeping the push button pointing out while I tightened it. 

In addition, I couldn't find a single part (at my Home Depot) to go from 3/8 Flare male to 1/4" NPT female, so I had to use 2 parts.  If you can find a single part, 1 and 2 would become a single part, and 4 and 5 would become a single part. 

Truthfully, my fittings may not be the best or only way.  I went to HD with my safety valve, and knowing I needed to have a 3/8" flare male on one end of the final contraption, and a 3/8" flare female on the other end, with the ability to rotate it into alignment, and I played around with fittings until I found a combination that worked. If I had landed at a store with different stocked fittings, I might have ended up with a different approach. 

Glen
Thanks Glen.  Funny, I went to HD yesterday and looked and didn't see anything that would work, even the employee didn't think they had anything that would work.  I will stop by Menards tonight.

Thanks again for the quick response.

Tom
 
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