Curing

[Bearcarver]

Must be a different Wiki.

Nothing scary here:
[h3]Humans[/h3]
The acute oral toxicity of propylene glycol is very low, and large quantities are required to cause perceptible health damage in humans; propylene glycol is metabolized in the human body into pyruvic acid  (a normal part of the glucose-metabolism process, readily converted to energy), acetic acid  (handled by ethanol-metabolism), lactic acid  (a normal acid generally abundant during digestion),[sup][9][/sup]  and propionaldehyde.[sup][10][/sup][sup][11][/sup]  Serious toxicity generally occurs only at plasma concentrations over 1 g/L, which requires extremely high intake over a relatively short period of time.[sup][12][/sup]  It would be nearly impossible to reach toxic levels by consuming foods or supplements, which contain at most 1 g/kg of PG. Cases of propylene glycol poisoning are usually related to either inappropriate intravenous administration or accidental ingestion of large quantities by children.[sup][13][/sup]  The potential for long-term oral toxicity is also low. In one study, rats were provided with feed containing as much as 5% PG in feed over a period of 104 weeks and they showed no apparent ill effects.[sup][14][/sup]  Because of its low chronic oral toxicity, propylene glycol was classified by the U. S. Food and Drug Administration  as "generally recognized as safe" (GRAS) for use as a direct food additive.

Prolonged contact with propylene glycol is essentially non-irritating to the skin. Undiluted propylene glycol is minimally irritating to the eye, and can produce slight transient conjunctivitis (the eye recovers after the exposure is removed). Exposure to mists may cause eye irritation, as well as upper respiratory tract irritation. Inhalation of the propylene glycol vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of propylene glycol mists could be irritating to some individuals. Therefore inhalation exposure to mists of these materials should be avoided. Some research has suggested that propylene glycol not be used in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions or antifreeze solutions for emergency eye wash stations.[sup][15][/sup]

Propylene glycol does not cause sensitization and it shows no evidence of being a carcinogen or of being genotoxic.[sup][16][/sup][sup][17][/sup]

Link to Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

Also found it is used in a whole lot of other cures (less than 2% they say).

Like I said, if it was harmful, Morton's would not be using it. It must be safer than not using it, or they wouldn't put it in???

Thanks,

Bear

 

[DanMcG]

Hmmm,  I'm not sure what I was reading , but what you posted doesn't sound to bad for ya.

Dan

 

[Bearcarver]

Hmmm,  I'm not sure what I was reading , but what you posted doesn't sound to bad for ya.

Dan

Don't forget Dan, I'm not a scientist--just a searcher.

This is a pretty good thread---Got everybody thinking.

Thanks for your input,

Bear

 

[Bearcarver]

Just ran into this in my searching:

To be effective in curing meat, there must be the correct amount of nitrates and nitrites evenly distributed throughout the curing mixture.  Too much or too little nitrates or nitrites is ineffective and possibly dangerous.  However, it is very difficult for a home cook to create the proper curing mixture, because the ingredients of salt, sugar and nitrates cannot be mixed effectively.  The proper amount of nitrate and nitrite are less than 1%.  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture.

Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are bonded.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say, only easier to understand than my gibberish.

Bear

 

[chefrob]

i thought i had read that somewhere........
 

  The ingredients in Tender Quick are bonded.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.

 

[bbally]

Just ran into this in my searching:

To be effective in curing meat, there must be the correct amount of nitrates and nitrites evenly distributed throughout the curing mixture.  Too much or too little nitrates or nitrites is ineffective and possibly dangerous.  However, it is very difficult for a home cook to create the proper curing mixture, because the ingredients of salt, sugar and nitrates cannot be mixed effectively.  The proper amount of nitrate and nitrite are less than 1%.  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture.

Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are bonded.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say, only easier to understand than my gibberish.

Bear

This is a marketing piece from Morton.  It is them trying to make their product seem better for a home user then cure 1.  While I agree that they do make a nice product.  The marketing hype is just that marketing...

Never had a problem with my cure mixes in 34 years of curing.

I had read this on the Morton site, makes sense that they found a way to disperse the stuff evenly, but it is strawman they are setting up to knock down, not a real problem.

 

[Bearcarver]

Just ran into this in my searching:

To be effective in curing meat, there must be the correct amount of nitrates and nitrites evenly distributed throughout the curing mixture.  Too much or too little nitrates or nitrites is ineffective and possibly dangerous.  However, it is very difficult for a home cook to create the proper curing mixture, because the ingredients of salt, sugar and nitrates cannot be mixed effectively.  The proper amount of nitrate and nitrite are less than 1%.  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture.

Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are bonded.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say, only easier to understand than my gibberish.

Bear

This is a marketing piece from Morton.  It is them trying to make their product seem better for a home user then cure 1.  While I agree that they do make a nice product.  The marketing hype is just that marketing...

Never had a problem with my cure mixes in 34 years of curing.

I had read this on the Morton site, makes sense that they found a way to disperse the stuff evenly, but it is strawman they are setting up to knock down, not a real problem.

Bob,

I still think it's a good thing to post this possible problem. I am not a Morton's rep or a shill for them:

You never had a problem with it in 34 years. Dan only had a problem once in 25 years.

How about a guy who didn't even know there could be such a problem, who throws 3 TBS of salt, 1 TBS of sugar & a quarter ounce of cure #1 in a bowl. Then he gives it a little stir or two with a spoon, like he does with his favorite rib rub, and then applies it to a 6.25 pound pork loin (calling for 1/4 ounce of cure #1). Couldn't that be a problem, with possibly all that cure at one end of the loin, and nothing on the rest of it?

Since I think that could be a problem, I bring this to the forum as a warning. People can heed that warning, or ignore it.

Bear

 

[bbally]

Just ran into this in my searching:

To be effective in curing meat, there must be the correct amount of nitrates and nitrites evenly distributed throughout the curing mixture.  Too much or too little nitrates or nitrites is ineffective and possibly dangerous.  However, it is very difficult for a home cook to create the proper curing mixture, because the ingredients of salt, sugar and nitrates cannot be mixed effectively.  The proper amount of nitrate and nitrite are less than 1%.  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture.

Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are bonded.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say, only easier to understand than my gibberish.

Bear

This is a marketing piece from Morton.  It is them trying to make their product seem better for a home user then cure 1.  While I agree that they do make a nice product.  The marketing hype is just that marketing...

Never had a problem with my cure mixes in 34 years of curing.

I had read this on the Morton site, makes sense that they found a way to disperse the stuff evenly, but it is strawman they are setting up to knock down, not a real problem.

Bob,

I still think it's a good thing to post this possible problem. I am not a Morton's rep or a shill for them:

You never had a problem with it in 34 years. Dan only had a problem once in 25 years.

How about a guy who didn't even know there could be such a problem, who throws 3 TBS of salt, 1 TBS of sugar & a quarter ounce of cure #1 in a bowl. Then he gives it a little stir or two with a spoon, like he does with his favorite rib rub, and then applies it to a 6.25 pound pork loin (calling for 1/4 ounce of cure #1). Couldn't that be a problem, with possibly all that cure at one end of the loin, and nothing on the rest of it?

Since I think that could be a problem, I bring this to the forum as a warning. People can heed that warning, or ignore it.

Bear

As I said in my post above.  I think it is a nice product and it is neat how they did that.

That said I cannot imagine how we could write anything up that would take into account the chance of somebody screwing something up.  So thinking of the guy that only stirs this with a spoon for a few minutes means this person did not do their research correctly and needs to get more information.  Same could be said the other way, say a person subs TQ for Cure 1 and does not realize they are different products and something goes wrong?????   All we can do is put the information out there like we have been doing for people to review and ask questions about.

 

[chefrob]

 Originally Posted by Bearcarver  

 

Just ran into this in my searching:

 ..........  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture............ The ingredients in Tender Quick are bonded.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.

i was thinking the same for the nitrite/nitrate in cures #1 and #2 in regards to stratification when i found this.............  

 
Sodium nitrite, even in small quantities, is very dangerous, and can kill. The lowest known lethal dose of sodium nitrite is 71mg per kg of body weight. At this level, about a tsp of pure sodium nitrite could be enough to kill an average sized adult.

This is why it is mixed in small quantities with salt, dissolved into water, then turned back into a uniform crystal and then dyed pink.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Whats-the-D...a-Cure-2-Understanding-Which-You-Need-and-Why  

 

[Bearcarver]

Just ran into this in my searching:

To be effective in curing meat, there must be the correct amount of nitrates and nitrites evenly distributed throughout the curing mixture.  Too much or too little nitrates or nitrites is ineffective and possibly dangerous.  However, it is very difficult for a home cook to create the proper curing mixture, because the ingredients of salt, sugar and nitrates cannot be mixed effectively.  The proper amount of nitrate and nitrite are less than 1%.  Simply combining the ingredients is ineffective, because "stratification" occurs, so that the nitrates and nitrites will not be distributed evenly throughout the mixture.

Many years ago, the Morton Salt people developed Tender Quick, so that the home cook could safely cure meat.  The ingredients in Tender Quick are bonded.  Basically, bonding means that the ingredients are mixed with water to achieve a solution and then dried.  This guarantees that the ingredients are distributed evenly in the proper ratio, even in the smallest amounts.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say, only easier to understand than my gibberish.

Bear

This is a marketing piece from Morton.  It is them trying to make their product seem better for a home user then cure 1.  While I agree that they do make a nice product.  The marketing hype is just that marketing...

Never had a problem with my cure mixes in 34 years of curing.

I had read this on the Morton site, makes sense that they found a way to disperse the stuff evenly, but it is strawman they are setting up to knock down, not a real problem.

Bob,

I still think it's a good thing to post this possible problem. I am not a Morton's rep or a shill for them:

You never had a problem with it in 34 years. Dan only had a problem once in 25 years.

How about a guy who didn't even know there could be such a problem, who throws 3 TBS of salt, 1 TBS of sugar & a quarter ounce of cure #1 in a bowl. Then he gives it a little stir or two with a spoon, like he does with his favorite rib rub, and then applies it to a 6.25 pound pork loin (calling for 1/4 ounce of cure #1). Couldn't that be a problem, with possibly all that cure at one end of the loin, and nothing on the rest of it?

Since I think that could be a problem, I bring this to the forum as a warning. People can heed that warning, or ignore it.

Bear

As I said in my post above.  I think it is a nice product and it is neat how they did that.

That said I cannot imagine how we could write anything up that would take into account the chance of somebody screwing something up.  So thinking of the guy that only stirs this with a spoon for a few minutes means this person did not do their research correctly and needs to get more information.  Same could be said the other way, say a person subs TQ for Cure 1 and does not realize they are different products and something goes wrong?????   All we can do is put the information out there like we have been doing for people to review and ask questions about.

Absolutely---I'd say we're doing a pretty good job of putting info out there, but if I have to keep defending it, some could start to think I have no idea what I'm talking about.

When the guy that says the problem I'm pointing out is "A Straw Man created by the producer of a product", has "Trusted Authority" next to his name, who's going to worry about how they stir it, or worry about any warnings I present?

Bear

 

[DanMcG]

I know what you're saying about distributing the small amount of cure #1 throughout the meat bear but I don't see it as an issue. For me it has work 99.9% of the time.  And I don't think it will separate from the moment you mix it to the time you rub it. My method is to place all the ingredients in a zip lock bag and shack the heck out of it till its all one color, then I fell its mixed well enough. It has to be something on the molecular level,  because if it can find its way to the meat in a belly thru all the layers of fat then its not the mix or the rubbing....It's almost magic.

(Sorry I just love that smily)

I started curing in the 80's with Rytec Kutas's book and that's why I use #1, cause that's what he used.

I'm feeling an experiment coming on, anybody with me?

 

[Bearcarver]

I know what you're saying about distributing the small amount of cure #1 throughout the meat bear but I don't see it as an issue. For me it has work 99.9% of the time.  And I don't think it will separate from the moment you mix it to the time you rub it. My method is to place all the ingredients in a zip lock bag and shack the heck out of it till its all one color, then I fell its mixed well enough. It has to be something on the molecular level,  because if it can find its way to the meat in a belly thru all the layers of fat then its not the mix or the rubbing....It's almost magic.

(Sorry I just love that smily)

I started curing in the 80's with Rytec Kutas's book and that's why I use #1, cause that's what he used.

I'm feeling an experiment coming on, anybody with me?

Apparently the scientists at Morton's thought it was a big enough issue to design something to assist the home meat smoker in the safety of mixing cures & keeping them mixed.

I doubt they even considered it was magic.

 

[dalton]

well all I can do is bow down and say "Im not worthy"

all you folks have many years experience with this and I am just a newbie but here is my 2 cents.

when I first started to get into this fun hobby I bought the same books listed in the previous post and one of the most memorable peices of information that i read was in the meat smoking and smokehouse design by marianski brothers.  he was talking about how there was a big public scare about how nitrate and nitrite was soooo bad and then there was a LOT of reasearch done on the subject and the the government came up with maximum amounts to be used by the meat packing plants and manufactures of sausage and other processed meats.  the amounts of nitrate and nitrite in cure #1 and TQ are within that maximium allowed, and that maximum allowed by the government is a quite abit lower than any research was shown to be toxic.  in addition to that marianski also said that there was no difinitive findings that it was as bad as suggested at the time.  I don't have a direct quote but I encorage anyone to read this book as I found it very informative and at the end of the section on curing I felt very comfortable using the various different cures available so long as I WAS USING THEM AS INTENDED AND INSTRUCTED BY THE MANUFACTURE OF THE CURE!!!!!!. 

that being said I see the points of both bbally and bear, and I would like to thank each one of them as well as all the others for bringing their knowledge and expertise here for all us other folks to benifit from.  I would tend to agree with bear in that TQ has the cure "premixed" or "bonded" with salt so that it makes it very difficult to screw it up interms of too much cure in one place and easier to spread around. I remember thinking the first time I mixed cure into 5lb of ground meat that if I was using cure #1 that making sure that I spread it evenly would have been more difficult because I would have been working with such a small amount by comparision.  in my case I mixed the TQ  with the meat seperatly because I wanted to make sure that it was spread around evenly and then mixed the spices in.  the only problem that bbally seems to have with that is the additonal nitrate that is contained in the TQ.  again I looked back at the section on curing in the book my marianski and felt very comfortable with that not being a problem.(just my humble opinion)  so, If for the sake of discussion, i am not concerned with the nitrate then TQ seems to be a product with less risk for someone like me with less expereince than folks like bbally or dan.  please understand that in my short time here in the forum I have gained a great deal of respect for both of them as well as bear and many others and don't want to offend anyone!!.  but as a newcomer to all of this I do very much appreciate this thread as it brings many points of view up for discussion. 

in a wet cureing application I can see that cure #1 would work well because you are not so worried about manually spreading it around because it is mixed with liquid.  but again if I am not concerned by the nitrate, for the sake of discussion, is there any downside to using TQ in the proper amount? 

once again I would like to thanks to all the members in this forum who share their knowledge so freely so that poeple like me can learn about this fun hobby from folks who have already made all the mistakes and can help us avoid them or correct them. 

dalton

 

[Bearcarver]

well all I can do is bow down and say "Im not worthy"

all you folks have many years experience with this and I am just a newbie but here is my 2 cents.

when I first started to get into this fun hobby I bought the same books listed in the previous post and one of the most memorable peices of information that i read was in the meat smoking and smokehouse design by marianski brothers.  he was talking about how there was a big public scare about how nitrate and nitrite was soooo bad and then there was a LOT of reasearch done on the subject and the the government came up with maximum amounts to be used by the meat packing plants and manufactures of sausage and other processed meats.  the amounts of nitrate and nitrite in cure #1 and TQ are within that maximium allowed, and that maximum allowed by the government is a quite abit lower than any research was shown to be toxic.  in addition to that marianski also said that there was no difinitive findings that it was as bad as suggested at the time.  I don't have a direct quote but I encorage anyone to read this book as I found it very informative and at the end of the section on curing I felt very comfortable using the various different cures available so long as I WAS USING THEM AS INTENDED AND INSTRUCTED BY THE MANUFACTURE OF THE CURE!!!!!!. 

that being said I see the points of both bbally and bear, and I would like to thank each one of them as well as all the others for bringing their knowledge and expertise here for all us other folks to benifit from.  I would tend to agree with bear in that TQ has the cure "premixed" or "bonded" with salt so that it makes it very difficult to screw it up interms of too much cure in one place and easier to spread around. I remember thinking the first time I mixed cure into 5lb of ground meat that if I was using cure #1 that making sure that I spread it evenly would have been more difficult because I would have been working with such a small amount by comparision.  in my case I mixed the TQ  with the meat seperatly because I wanted to make sure that it was spread around evenly and then mixed the spices in.  the only problem that bbally seems to have with that is the additonal nitrate that is contained in the TQ.  again I looked back at the section on curing in the book my marianski and felt very comfortable with that not being a problem.(just my humble opinion)  so, If for the sake of discussion, i am not concerned with the nitrate then TQ seems to be a product with less risk for someone like me with less expereince than folks like bbally or dan.  please understand that in my short time here in the forum I have gained a great deal of respect for both of them as well as bear and many others and don't want to offend anyone!!.  but as a newcomer to all of this I do very much appreciate this thread as it brings many points of view up for discussion. 

in a wet cureing application I can see that cure #1 would work well because you are not so worried about manually spreading it around because it is mixed with liquid.  but again if I am not concerned by the nitrate, for the sake of discussion, is there any downside to using TQ in the proper amount? 

once again I would like to thanks to all the members in this forum who share their knowledge so freely so that poeple like me can learn about this fun hobby from folks who have already made all the mistakes and can help us avoid them or correct them. 

dalton

Thank you Dalton for your kind words.

In answer to your question that I highlighted in red:

You can adjust the amount of salt when using cure #1.

But you can not adjust the salt amount in TQ (downward).

However, as I reported earlier, with TQ, I have never had to soak any solid whole meat more than 1/2 hour to eliminate salt taste, and my beef sticks & sausages don't have the slightest bit of salt taste (IMHO). And that is using TQ exactly as suggested by Morton's.

Also, I do exactly like you do. I spread my TQ all over the piece of meat first (to make sure it's all covered). Then I spread sugar & any other seasonings all over the meat. I do this on a clean plate. Then I can make sure anything that falls off gets put in that bag with that piece.

Thanks again,

Bear

 

[shooterrick]

Ok this is some great info from Bear and Bbally.  If I may take a moment to boil down some points.  

1. If you use cure 1 you can better adjust salt content to your liking.

2. If you use cure 1 you must be certain any cure mix is mixed to the point of being as homogenous as possible.

3  Cure 1 and TQ are not interchangable on a 1:1 basis.

4. TQ may be a better choice for the novice as it is premixed within the carriers.( Namely Salt )

5. Regardless of the cure you use you must measure with a high degree of accuracy.

6. Both Cure 1 and TQ are good safe products if used as directed by the manufacturer.

This may seem oversimplified considering the previous posts by Bear and Bbally but for the novice I am guessing this can be somewhat confusing.  If any of the above statements is inaccurate please feel free to correct them.

 

[alblancher]

Just got back from out of town so if this comment has been addressed I apologize but in my opinion TQ has Nitrates in the mix and should not be used when preparing a product for immediate consumption.  I would not use TQ in hot smoked sausages/meats that are cured, stuffed, hot smoked or pan fried and served in a couple of day time frame. 

TQ seems to be a product that will allow some latitude in the process.  Safe for a fairly broad range of recipes but not necessarily 100% right for any specific technique.   Cure 1 and Cure 2 allow you add the appropriate amount of the appropriate type of curing agent to your specific application. 

Maybe TQ is good for smokers that may not complete the curing process correctly.  The TQ provides a safety factor at the expense of adding a curing agent that may not be needed by more careful users.  The toxicity of nitrates to healthy adults seems to be uncertain, to very young children only potentially dangerous but balanced against the dangers of improperly cured meats, minor. 

 

[Bearcarver]

Ok this is some great info from Bear and Bbally.  If I may take a moment to boil down some points.  

1. If you use cure 1 you can better adjust salt content to your liking.

2. If you use cure 1 you must be certain any cure mix is mixed to the point of being as homogenous as possible.

3  Cure 1 and TQ are not interchangable on a 1:1 basis.

4. TQ may be a better choice for the novice as it is premixed within the carriers.( Namely Salt )

5. Regardless of the cure you use you must measure with a high degree of accuracy.

6. Both Cure 1 and TQ are good safe products if used as directed by the manufacturer.

This may seem oversimplified considering the previous posts by Bear and Bbally but for the novice I am guessing this can be somewhat confusing.  If any of the above statements is inaccurate please feel free to correct them.

Basically:
#1----Yes

#2----Yes

#3----Yes

#4----Yes

#5----Yes

#6----Yes

Bear

 

[Bearcarver]

Just got back from out of town so if this comment has been addressed I apologize but in my opinion TQ has Nitrates in the mix and should not be used when preparing a product for immediate consumption.  I would not use TQ in hot smoked sausages/meats that are cured, stuffed, hot smoked or pan fried and served in a couple of day time frame. I'm still looking into this, and so far the only thing I have found about the extra "nitrates" in TQ is that you shouldn't fry your Bacon or anything else Well Done at 600˚ or more. Do you have a link for that "couple of day time frame"? I have not run into that one yet---I'd like to see it. (thanks)

TQ seems to be a product that will allow some latitude in the process.  Safe for a fairly broad range of recipes but not necessarily 100% right for any specific technique.   Cure 1 and Cure 2 allow you add the appropriate amount of the appropriate type of curing agent to your specific application. TQ is right for what is supposed to be used for, just like Cure #1 is right for what it was designed for & cure #2 is right for what it was designed for. I use TQ for everything I cure, but I haven't cured anything that should be cured with Cure #2.

Maybe TQ is good for smokers that may not complete the curing process correctly.  The TQ provides a safety factor at the expense of adding a curing agent that may not be needed by more careful users.  The toxicity of nitrates to healthy adults seems to be uncertain, to very young children only potentially dangerous but balanced against the dangers of improperly cured meats, minor. No cure is good for those who don't complete the process properly. The main safety factor in TQ is the salt, making it too salty to eat if you use too much. No matter how careful one is mixing Cures like cure #1, that have not been bonded, there is still a chance for it to not be spread out evenly when Dry Curing. TQ's bonding takes that chance away. If you mix Cure #1 really really well, that chance is lessened to a very safe point.

My replies in red above,

Bear

 

[alblancher]

The couple of day time frame is in reference to the fact that Nitrates require time or extreme conditions (high temp, acidity ) to reduce to nitrite.  The purpose of Nitrates in Cure 2 used for long cure time salamis and hams is to provide a source of Nitrite over the curing period.  Nitrates do nothing to prevent spoilage, nitrites and their eventual conversion to NO do all the work.  The reason I used the couple of day time frame is that Cure 1's concentration of nitrites are sufficient for the cure process during that relatively brief time period.  This is the reason Cure 1 is recommended for curing bacon 10 - 14 day time frame in refrigeration vs Cure 2 for Country Ham's 6 - 24 month process at temps in the 40 - 60 degree range.

In my opinion TQ is not 100 percent right for any application I am familiar with simply because it provides both nitrites and nitrates as provided by Cure 2 but in insufficient concentrations to qualify it for use in long term cure applications. Just my opinion and we all know that my opinion plus $1.09 will buy a small cup of coffee at McDonald's. 

If you improperly mix the cure, seasonings, water and meat the type of cure you are using is irrelevant.  If you do not know how to use a scale or measuring spoons and cups the type of cure you use is irrelevant.  If you do not know how to expand a recipe or can't convert grams to ozs or liters to cups the type of cure you are using is irrelevant.  When discussing recipes we all have to make certain assumptions, the reader understanding and possessing basic cooking skills is one of those assumptions.  Where we can help is to try and provide a safety zone for people trying recipes that call for different ingredients, times and temperatures.  Why are there so many different techniques and recipes for the same product?  Take a look at the number of recipes for basic smoked sausage.  I must have a dozen different recipes for smoked sausage on my harddrive, and those are just the recipes that I have decide to keep.  

A neophyte smoker/curer that possesses basic skills is more likely to make a mistake as the result of a bad recipe, improper temperature control (especially us stick burners), and improper timing (especially us multitaskers).  TQ may be a good product because its combination of curing agents is more forgiving.   For the truly uninformed smoker/curer there are no good processes.  Basic curing and smoking are midlevel skills and not recommended for people that possess no understanding of food safety or cooking techniques.

I believe it is our responsibility as posters to this forum to help identify unsafe recipes, point out bad techniques and make recommendations that result in safe, delicious final products.

 

[Bearcarver]

The couple of day time frame is in reference to the fact that Nitrates require time or extreme conditions (high temp, acidity ) to reduce to nitrite.  The purpose of Nitrates in Cure 2 used for long cure time salamis and hams is to provide a source of Nitrite over the curing period.  Nitrates do nothing to prevent spoilage, nitrites and their eventual conversion to NO do all the work.  The reason I used the couple of day time frame is that Cure 1's concentration of nitrites are sufficient for the cure process during that relatively brief time period.  This is the reason Cure 1 is recommended for curing bacon 10 - 14 day time frame in refrigeration vs Cure 2 for Country Ham's 6 - 24 month process at temps in the 40 - 60 degree range.

In my opinion TQ is not 100 percent right for any application I am familiar with simply because it provides both nitrites and nitrates as provided by Cure 2 but in insufficient concentrations to qualify it for use in long term cure applications. Just my opinion and we all know that my opinion plus $1.09 will buy a small cup of coffee at McDonald's. 

If you improperly mix the cure, seasonings, water and meat the type of cure you are using is irrelevant.  If you do not know how to use a scale or measuring spoons and cups the type of cure you use is irrelevant.  If you do not know how to expand a recipe or can't convert grams to ozs or liters to cups the type of cure you are using is irrelevant.  When discussing recipes we all have to make certain assumptions, the reader understanding and possessing basic cooking skills is one of those assumptions.  Where we can help is to try and provide a safety zone for people trying recipes that call for different ingredients, times and temperatures.  Why are there so many different techniques and recipes for the same product?  Take a look at the number of recipes for basic smoked sausage.  I must have a dozen different recipes for smoked sausage on my harddrive, and those are just the recipes that I have decide to keep.  

A neophyte smoker/curer that possesses basic skills is more likely to make a mistake as the result of a bad recipe, improper temperature control (especially us stick burners), and improper timing (especially us multitaskers).  TQ may be a good product because its combination of curing agents is more forgiving.   For the truly uninformed smoker/curer there are no good processes.  Basic curing and smoking are midlevel skills and not recommended for people that possess no understanding of food safety or cooking techniques.

I believe it is our responsibility as posters to this forum to help identify unsafe recipes, point out bad techniques and make recommendations that result in safe, delicious final products.

I agree with most of what you say above, but as for the one I highlighted in red, maybe somebody should tell Morton's that their product is not 100% right for any application.

Bear