Brisket And Burnt Ends

[daricksta]

 
Hey, Rick,  I can understand that as good as anyone. I just spent the entire weekend low & slow smoking, rotisserie smoking, smoke/char-grilling lunch and dinner for a smaller gathering of family & friends. One meat and two sides for each meal Saturday, then one meat only for lunch and two meats plus one side for dinner. I just got home from work and still have to finish unloading the rest of my gear and supplies from Sunday night and I'm still recovering from the weekend...no, not brown-bottle flue. Just tired, especially after getting up at 4:15 this morning. That chore might have to wait for another day.

Sharp wit does not appear in the absence of sleep.

Eric

Eric, this is the heck that is my life. Almost every morning I wake up at 4 am, no matter when I went to sleep. Many times it's between 2-3 am. And I can almost relate to what you just wrote. On Sunday I both smoked a bunch of my first attempt at Teriyaki Beef Jerky (I've smoked two batches of regular beef jerky before this) while at the same time I prepped and stir fried my 2nd attempt at Sweet and Sour Pork for the wife. Both turned out pretty good--the S&SP will need double the sauce next time. Jury's out on the TBJ. I liked the taste OK but for me smoked foods like that need at least a week in a vacuum sealed bag for the flavors to distribute and meld and develop and, well, like that. I took photos only of the "Before". I have to deliver a sample package to a friend who's said he'd be willing to pay me for supplying him with TBJ this weekend. When I un-vacuum the seal I'll take photos of the "After" and upload all photos to SMF.

Rick

 

[daricksta]

 
Well it sure looks good from here!

Al

Thanks, Al.

Is there any easy way to mark this post for future reference? Among my plans for next year is to smoke my own brisket pastrami ala Katz Delicatessen style. But I want to check out all your recipes to for ideas and, well, recipes, for smoking other stuff. I have a couple of friends who gave me a gourmet smoking cookbook last year which I also want to try out. And then there's all the grilling stuff I want to make. So many recipes, so little time.

Rick

 

[daricksta]

 

I wasn't a fan of Stones, but I know the Clapton tune. Before Midnight Analytical Mad Scientist works. I've only made a sauce once...experiment with the ingredients of one our favorite pork dry rubs,  but I kinda screwed it up when used tomato for part of the base. It ended up tasting like a really fancy marinara...never had the time to try it again without tomato, but it's still out there. Some of the guys thought it sounded pretty good, but it just didn't get it done for me.

I looked at the recipe. I agree. You had me with all the ingredients other than the tomatoes and apple sauce and blueberries. I think the tart cherries and everything else would work fine. That pork shoulder/butt looks awesome.

 do mess with rubs a lot...way more than I realize, I'm sure. I started using dried fruits in rubs about 5 years ago, along with dried red bell peppers. Hawg Heaven Rub was a big hit for a few years, then I came up with a twist...Blueberry/Cherry/RBP Rub...then just recently I combination of the two, minus a few ingredient, plus a few more...that's when Wild Hawg Rub was born. They're all good, but Wild Hawg Rub was developed specifically for what I felt I was missing with ribs. It would be too mild and too smooth for pork shoulder, IMHO, but on ribs we think it's the best we've had so far. Gonna fire up for 3 slabs of BBRs for Saturday dinner and toss Wild Hawg on 'em...I've only made ribs with this rub 2 times at home, once on a road-trip, once again at home, and now it'll be for a local gathering of about a dozen. It's been good to me, for sure...no complaints from anyone...in fact they rave about this rub more than any, so far.

I've never really mess with mops much...a little here and there about 7-8 years ago. Never used finishing sauces much either, but they do have their merits. I like to hand-pull my pork on demand, that way there's peak moisture when served...unadulterated chunks of pork with all their natural moisture...pork, rub, smoke and a wicked hard, heavy bark...it just turns out great every time.

I only use a couple of dry rubs, mostly a KC Sweet And Smoky recipe from Steven Raichlen. I am a simple man of simple tastes after all. I'll look into yours because, honestly, as supremely creative and witty as I am, I'm totally unimaginative when it comes to creating my own rubs and sauces since the huge world of possible combos and the tasting of every batch is just to intimidating and besides I lack the patience. I like to follow the culinary trails blazed before me, tweaking a recipe to my taste if I don't totally like it.

Yeah, I let one of my boys take my Smoke Vault 24" with him to his job, and I rarely wish for that large of smoker capacity anymore. My arsenal of 3 Weber kettle and the WSM-18 handle everything I need pretty well, and I like cooking with hardwood lump or charcoal far better than messing with a gas valve. Not to mention the better flavors imparted into the food...I can't get that with a gasser, no matter what I do.

Gasser? What gasser? For me, the only grilling fuel for my Weber 22." OTS is charcoal. I bought my MES 30, though, because for the smoker I wanted a constant heat source (electricity) without futzing around with wood chunks, charcoal briquettes, or liquid propane.

I don't really measure my cuts, either...just eyeball it. I try to keep them uniform, but there's nothing wrong with variances with BEs/BFs, because the variations in thickness will yield different textures and levels of doneness. That can be beneficial in finding that sweet spot when you're still trying to find out how you really like them. I'm an Asian Stir-Fry fan, myself. Then there the camp DOs, the 15" Lodge CI skillet, the 14" x 16" CI griddle. I haven't used my camp DOs for a long time...too long...rust took them over. They're cheapo china junk Camp Chef, but still costed me $40 a piece. I could still use them with a foil liner, I guess.

Eric,

Good. If my cooking style resembles yours than I'm doing fine. I've got OK knife skills but I'm week on the dicing, cubing and mincing. I'd be the first one sent home in any cooking competition. What are camp DOs? And I love all things Lodge. Got 2 CI skillets of different sizes (gave me daughter one of my 12" skillets) and I have an 11" grill pan. Also got my wife Made in USA 7 qt. enamel coated Dutch oven (which are all now made in China).

It's been so long since I've smoked a whole brisket...since I started playing with the wet-to-dry smoke chamber method I mainly separate and trim lean. Back in the day, yeah, I'd foil the flat, wrap in about 3" of towels and rest for several hours. The point almost never saw foil...open board rest, cut-up and tossed in sauce and back on open grates to finish. By the time the flat was rested the BEs were done. With wet-to-dry you have to time your smoke a little closer due to the resting method if you're preserving the bark (no foiling...unless you want to soften the bark...it does get pretty intense, I'll admit)...doesn't hold at temp for as long, but still quite a while before it's really cooling down.

OK, that's not a typo, is it? 3 weeks in the fridge with smoked and processed brisket? Man, I'd never be brave enough to go more than 5 days, and that's only if it's still an intact whole smoked meat. Although I've never vac-packed smoked meat for the fridge, either. I do need to grab another vac unit...one I have was never worth a hoot...melted a hole in the bag right in the center of the seal, when it was working. I removed the heat strip from that one and use it strictly for sealing dried foods in canning jars.

The three weeks referred to smoked cheese. When I read up on it before doing my first batch all the advice said to let it age in the fridge for 3 weeks. Why 3 weeks? Why is 16 years old sweet? Why must you wash your hands for 20 seconds after going to the bathroom? Why must you climb 29,029 ft. (Mt. Everest) to reach the highest peak in the world? Because they say so. With brisket we eat as soon as it's done and then over the next few days. Ever since I forgot about the leftover from one of the best briskets I ever smoked and had to throw it away, I vacuum seal all leftover brisket. We have a Food Saver which I bow to and smooch every day in gratitude for how long it keeps most foods (except soft cheeses like mozz) spoil-free. I even bought a Quick Marinator attachment for it which is incredible for cutting marinating hours down to 30 minutes or so. We get ours at Costco because if they go bad you bring them back for a full refund and get a newer model!

 Not sure what you mean by wet-to-dry smoke chamber method. Could you elucidate please?

Oh, speaking of aging smoked foods, have you ever smoked potatoes and aged the leftovers in the fridge for a couple-three days? It's a whole new smoked potato a few days after. Just don't use your wife's favorite tupperware for aging...she'll string you up when she puts a delicate food into for a few days and it comes out smoked. Ziploc bags will suffice for taters.

Haven't smoked anything like that yet. Honestly, it's enough of a challenge just to smoke meats and cheeses. And besides, I have to wheel my smoker out of the garage and set it up outside the house and then I have to clean stuff and wheel it back to the garage after use. Oh, we have had plenty of damaged decades-old Tupperware storage containers. That's why for long term storage I vacuum seal. It also keeps ice crystals and freezer burn off the frozen stuff. Ziploc bags just don't do it for us. Thrown away foods that got freezer burn inside of them.

See? I FINALLY responded!

Rick

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Rick,

Camp DO's are charcoal-fired Dutch Ovens...the ones with legs on bottom and a lid with a rim to hold coals on top. You fire them with charcoal on bottom only, unless you're roasting or baking, then you add coals on the lid. Temp is determined by the ambient conditions and the number of coals under the oven and on top...usually more more on top than underneath as it's radiant heat-only for top, while the bottom heat is radiant and convective (more efficient). More info on that when and if the time comes. Camp DOs are one of the easiest to use outdoor cookers, IMHO, and you can create some gourmet meals with as little or as much effort as you're willing to give it, such as Shrimp & Sausage Corn Chowder. Of course, I couldn't stop there...Smoked Shrimp & Sausage Corn Chowder was the ultimate rendition of the recipe...all ingredients smoked, and the dish finished in the smoker...crazy, yes, but not so crazy once you taste it.

I haven't tried breads in DOs yet, but I've been wanting to try a no-knead long-fermented bread for a long time...I've read they have a more defined and well developed, deep flavor. Play with the humidity variables a bit by cracking the lid open at the right time and you can create a nice artisan-style hard crust. OK, enough about DOs and breads...that kinda talk just makes me hungry, and I just ate a BIG dinner.

I developed the Wet-to-Dry Smoke Chamber Method for smoking lean trimmed meats and starting your smoke with a smaller amount of water in the water pan and allowing it to evaporate so the pan is dry during the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the expected cooking time, depending on your preferences. Obviously this method was developed for vertical smokers, but could actually be incorporated into horizontal pits, as well.

Oh, yeah, 3 weeks for vac-sealed smoked cheese sounds about right. A month or so into aging and it could start to form mold...that's where waxing is a better packing method...you can age for ages with worries of mold. Of course the softer cheeses won't age as long without issues, but sharp cheddar and other hard cheese really age well over long periods of time...as in 20+ years. Fridge temp is actually too cold for cheese aging...slows things way down, but doesn't hurt anything. Mr T's smoked cheese thread explains a lot of that in detail...he knows cheese very well, among other things: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/123130/mr-ts-smoked-cheese-from-go-to-show-w-q-view

Oh, dude, if you like potatoes but haven't smoked them...oh, man, this is a MUST DO!!! And, as already said, smoke more than you'll eat that day, because then you get to age them a couple days and REALLY enjoy the benefits of smoking them.

BTW, don't sweat slow responses...I'm having trouble keeping up with things myself...too many irons in the fire at the same time. That's what I get for jumping in on too many threads here...gotta let things cool down a bit some times.

Eric

 

[daricksta]

 
Rick,

Camp DO's are charcoal-fired Dutch Ovens...the ones with legs on bottom and a lid with a rim to hold coals on top. You fire them with charcoal on bottom only, unless you're roasting or baking, then you add coals on the lid. Temp is determined by the ambient conditions and the number of coals under the oven and on top...usually more more on top than underneath as it's radiant heat-only for top, while the bottom heat is radiant and convective (more efficient). More info on that when and if the time comes. Camp DOs are one of the easiest to use outdoor cookers, IMHO, and you can create some gourmet meals with as little or as much effort as you're willing to give it, such as Shrimp & Sausage Corn Chowder. Of course, I couldn't stop there...Smoked Shrimp & Sausage Corn Chowder was the ultimate rendition of the recipe...all ingredients smoked, and the dish finished in the smoker...crazy, yes, but not so crazy once you taste it.

I haven't tried breads in DOs yet, but I've been wanting to try a no-knead long-fermented bread for a long time...I've read they have a more defined and well developed, deep flavor. Play with the humidity variables a bit by cracking the lid open at the right time and you can create a nice artisan-style hard crust. OK, enough about DOs and breads...that kinda talk just makes me hungry, and I just ate a BIG dinner.

I developed the Wet-to-Dry Smoke Chamber Method for smoking lean trimmed meats and starting your smoke with a smaller amount of water in the water pan and allowing it to evaporate so the pan is dry during the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the expected cooking time, depending on your preferences. Obviously this method was developed for vertical smokers, but could actually be incorporated into horizontal pits, as well.

Oh, yeah, 3 weeks for vac-sealed smoked cheese sounds about right. A month or so into aging and it could start to form mold...that's where waxing is a better packing method...you can age for ages with worries of mold. Of course the softer cheeses won't age as long without issues, but sharp cheddar and other hard cheese really age well over long periods of time...as in 20+ years. Fridge temp is actually too cold for cheese aging...slows things way down, but doesn't hurt anything. Mr T's smoked cheese thread explains a lot of that in detail...he knows cheese very well, among other things: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/123130/mr-ts-smoked-cheese-from-go-to-show-w-q-view

Oh, dude, if you like potatoes but haven't smoked them...oh, man, this is a MUST DO!!! And, as already said, smoke more than you'll eat that day, because then you get to age them a couple days and REALLY enjoy the benefits of smoking them.

BTW, don't sweat slow responses...I'm having trouble keeping up with things myself...too many irons in the fire at the same time. That's what I get for jumping in on too many threads here...gotta let things cool down a bit some times.

Eric

You guys with your fancy shmancy acronyms and abbreviations! I love and adore DO cooking but have never did it campfire side. Never even heard of a Dutch oven until about 10 years ago when my wife told me she'd always wanted one since her mother had one. My mom never owned a Dutch oven. She had a big aluminum pot and those old fashioned pressure cookers with the wriggling vent caps that could be launched across the room. (I own a higher tech, stove top pressure cooker which has become one of my favorite cooking appliances.) Anyways, I bought her that Lodge and even I get to use it sometimes along with our Crock Pot. As for bread making, the wife's the expert in that department though she hasn't made no-knead bread in the DO. I've got no desire to make bread though I've some basic experience making pasta and pizza doughs. 

In my electric smoker I foil over the water pan. The thing's so well-insulated I don't worry about the meat drying out. And you've convinced me. I'm going to pick a recipe where potatoes will be perfect as a side. Being an electric smoker I'll need to crisp up the potato skin in the oven afterwards, just like you do with poultry skin. Didn't know that you could age them in the fridge.

Actually, from a flavor standpoint, vacuum-sealed smoked cheese ages extremely well in the fridge. You can see the color deepen over the 3 weeks and the smoky goodness further permeates the cheese as it distributes itself around. Same goes for vacuum sealed brisket or any smoked meat. What seems like disparate flavors when the smoked meat or cheese is done seem to meld and blend with each other, creating a culinary confluence of commingled delectable delights.

Thanks for the comment about slow responses. This is all my allotted SMF time for today. 

Rick

 

[daricksta]

 
Rick,

Camp DO's are charcoal-fired Dutch Ovens...the ones with legs on bottom and a lid with a rim to hold coals on top. You fire them with charcoal on bottom only, unless you're roasting or baking, then you add coals on the lid. Temp is determined by the ambient conditions and the number of coals under the oven and on top...usually more more on top than underneath as it's radiant heat-only for top, while the bottom heat is radiant and convective (more efficient). More info on that when and if the time comes. Camp DOs are one of the easiest to use outdoor cookers, IMHO, and you can create some gourmet meals with as little or as much effort as you're willing to give it, such as Shrimp & Sausage Corn Chowder. Of course, I couldn't stop there...Smoked Shrimp & Sausage Corn Chowder was the ultimate rendition of the recipe...all ingredients smoked, and the dish finished in the smoker...crazy, yes, but not so crazy once you taste it.

I haven't tried breads in DOs yet, but I've been wanting to try a no-knead long-fermented bread for a long time...I've read they have a more defined and well developed, deep flavor. Play with the humidity variables a bit by cracking the lid open at the right time and you can create a nice artisan-style hard crust. OK, enough about DOs and breads...that kinda talk just makes me hungry, and I just ate a BIG dinner.

I developed the Wet-to-Dry Smoke Chamber Method for smoking lean trimmed meats and starting your smoke with a smaller amount of water in the water pan and allowing it to evaporate so the pan is dry during the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the expected cooking time, depending on your preferences. Obviously this method was developed for vertical smokers, but could actually be incorporated into horizontal pits, as well.

Oh, yeah, 3 weeks for vac-sealed smoked cheese sounds about right. A month or so into aging and it could start to form mold...that's where waxing is a better packing method...you can age for ages with worries of mold. Of course the softer cheeses won't age as long without issues, but sharp cheddar and other hard cheese really age well over long periods of time...as in 20+ years. Fridge temp is actually too cold for cheese aging...slows things way down, but doesn't hurt anything. Mr T's smoked cheese thread explains a lot of that in detail...he knows cheese very well, among other things: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/123130/mr-ts-smoked-cheese-from-go-to-show-w-q-view

Oh, dude, if you like potatoes but haven't smoked them...oh, man, this is a MUST DO!!! And, as already said, smoke more than you'll eat that day, because then you get to age them a couple days and REALLY enjoy the benefits of smoking them.

BTW, don't sweat slow responses...I'm having trouble keeping up with things myself...too many irons in the fire at the same time. That's what I get for jumping in on too many threads here...gotta let things cool down a bit some times.

Eric

Eric, I prevaricated. THIS uses up my allotted SMF time for today. do you know how to flag or bookmark a post as a favorite. That was a great one about smoking cheeses. I want to find it easily without having to refer back to the link in your post. Thanks.

Rick

 

[forluvofsmoke]

 Eric, I prevaricated. THIS uses up my allotted SMF time for today. do you know how to flag or bookmark a post as a favorite. That was a great one about smoking cheeses. I want to find it easily without having to refer back to the link in your post. Thanks.

Rick

Ah, that I can definitely help you with. Just hover over the link, right-click and select Add Link to Bookmarks. If you have your book marks partitioned into additional folders and sub-folders it makes finding your bookmarks easier when you want/need to. Once you get several hundred bookmarks as I do, there's no other way to keep track of them.

Eric

 

[daricksta]

 
Ah, that I can definitely help you with. Just hover over the link, right-click and select Add Link to Bookmarks. If you have your book marks partitioned into additional folders and sub-folders it makes finding your bookmarks easier when you want/need to. Once you get several hundred bookmarks as I do, there's no other way to keep track of them.

Eric

Eric, reading over your instructions it just struck me that you use Firefox. But I was misunderstood. What I wanted to know is if there's a way to bookmark posts/threads within SMF? I know that I can save the page to Favorites in IE or Bookmarks in FF or Google Chrome. But it would be nice to have a list of favorite threads or something that I could click on within SMF.

Rick

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Eric, reading over your instructions it just struck me that you use Firefox. But I was misunderstood. What I wanted to know is if there's a way to bookmark posts/threads within SMF? I know that I can save the page to Favorites in IE or Bookmarks in FF or Google Chrome. But it would be nice to have a list of favorite threads or something that I could click on within SMF.

Rick

Ah, I see. Yeah, even after all these years hangin' on SMF, with site upgrades, etc, I still don't know of a way to do that, other than to compose a new PM to yourself and paste the link(s) to pages of interest. Then, as your list grows, just copy/paste all included links and notes to a new PM, deleting the older PM afterwards (or you may run yourself out of PM space). The subscribed threads list can be enormous unless you lose interest and decide to unsubscribe to a ton of threads (time consuming process), so I really don't see any other way at this point.

That's all I can think of. The alternative is to write yourself a public message on your profile page...not the best option, but the PMs will work...I just sent myself one with a link and that duck flies...now, if I could only get my dog to hunt...

And yes, FireFox user here...for about 4 or 5 years. Definitely have no reason to look back at Explorer or Edge when I upgraded from Win8 to Win10.

Eric

 

[daricksta]

 
Ah, I see. Yeah, even after all these years hangin' on SMF, with site upgrades, etc, I still don't know of a way to do that, other than to compose a new PM to yourself and paste the link(s) to pages of interest. Then, as your list grows, just copy/paste all included links and notes to a new PM, deleting the older PM afterwards (or you may run yourself out of PM space). The subscribed threads list can be enormous unless you lose interest and decide to unsubscribe to a ton of threads (time consuming process), so I really don't see any other way at this point.

That's all I can think of. The alternative is to write yourself a public message on your profile page...not the best option, but the PMs will work...I just sent myself one with a link and that duck flies...now, if I could only get my dog to hunt...

And yes, FireFox user here...for about 4 or 5 years. Definitely have no reason to look back at Explorer or Edge when I upgraded from Win8 to Win10.

Eric

Until your comment above, I thought you were relatively new to SMF since I had never noticed your posts AND I didn't read your profile. You predate me by 4 years here! The PM idea is a good one which I shall mull over. You mean there's a finite amount of space for PMs in our accounts? It's this nuts and bolts stuff I don't know. But I have had a ton of PMs in the past, deleting the ones I no longer needed.

You mean your dog won't hunt the duck? I thought his job was only to point skyward and bringing that flying dog down was your job at which time your dog converts into a retriever. As for dogs that won't hunt, I tried Windows 10 for maybe not quite ten minutes and went back to Windows 7. Wish it was the Pro version but the desktop I bought from Costco came with Premium. Since then they no longer carry that brand and all the desktops and laptops come with Pro. Anyway, I didn't like 10 at all--not the desktop with its lack of a taskbar. Also, I read up on W10 and it was designed to primarily sell you stuff. Both my wife and I are more comfortable with 7.

 Yeah, but it's my thread so it's ok since I'm party to the hijacking, which I am.

Rick

 

[brickguy221]

 
Until your comment above, I thought you were relatively new to SMF since I had never noticed your posts AND I didn't read your profile. You predate me by 4 years here! The PM idea is a good one which I shall mull over. You mean there's a finite amount of space for PMs in our accounts? It's this nuts and bolts stuff I don't know. But I have had a ton of PMs in the past, deleting the ones I no longer needed.

You mean your dog won't hunt the duck? I thought his job was only to point skyward and bringing that flying dog down was your job at which time your dog converts into a retriever. As for dogs that won't hunt, I tried Windows 10 for maybe not quite ten minutes and went back to Windows 7. Wish it was the Pro version but the desktop I bought from Costco came with Premium. Since then they no longer carry that brand and all the desktops and laptops come with Pro. Anyway, I didn't like 10 at all--not the desktop with its lack of a taskbar. Also, I read up on W10 and it was designed to primarily sell you stuff. Both my wife and I are more comfortable with 7.

 Yeah, but it's my thread so it's ok since I'm party to the hijacking, which I am.

Rick

I have windows 10 and no problems with it. What it is,   is an upgrade of windows 7 from what I have been told. Anyhow, it works perfect for me. No problems since day 1 with it. 

Maybe your not liking it as good as 7 may be how you have everything set-up on it, is that possible?  My Son in CA helped set mine up and install things on it. He has been deeply involved in computers and things for over 11-12+ years or more. In fact he built his own  first computer and has built many more since then. He too prefers 10 over 7. Just disgusted that aol has gotten worse over the years.

 

[forluvofsmoke]

 
Until your comment above, I thought you were relatively new to SMF since I had never noticed your posts AND I didn't read your profile. You predate me by 4 years here! The PM idea is a good one which I shall mull over. You mean there's a finite amount of space for PMs in our accounts? It's this nuts and bolts stuff I don't know. But I have had a ton of PMs in the past, deleting the ones I no longer needed.

You mean your dog won't hunt the duck? I thought his job was only to point skyward and bringing that flying dog down was your job at which time your dog converts into a retriever. As for dogs that won't hunt, I tried Windows 10 for maybe not quite ten minutes and went back to Windows 7. Wish it was the Pro version but the desktop I bought from Costco came with Premium. Since then they no longer carry that brand and all the desktops and laptops come with Pro. Anyway, I didn't like 10 at all--not the desktop with its lack of a taskbar. Also, I read up on W10 and it was designed to primarily sell you stuff. Both my wife and I are more comfortable with 7.

 Yeah, but it's my thread so it's ok since I'm party to the hijacking, which I am.

Rick

Yeah, been around here a while now...just past the 8yr mark...doesn't seem that long because it's all been good fun, good food and good people to share the ride with along the way.

I think it's a 50ct of PMs for standard accounts...it may have changed over the years, but I haven't read up on that for quite a while.

Oh, Win10 SUX!!! I have a Asus notebook that came with Win8 almost 2 years ago, which is mainly a tablet OS for touch-screen devices. Word is that Win8 will become obsolete soon due to lack of support/updates. The Win10 upgrade was free until July, 2016, IIRC, so I jumped on just for support/security updates. It's really just another BS touch-screen OS with more crap that only a select few will want or need. I spent a couple hours uninstalling loads of crap...uh, I mean useless apps. Seriously, if you want to buy and/or install apps, why not find it online? They're dumbing-down people in so many ways with all of the "oh, look what we did for you here...and we did it for FREE!!!" It's ridiculous to even think about the angles they're coming from when they drop all this garbage into a OS package...they must REALLY either think people are absolutely stupid, or too lazy to type in a search.

 
I have windows 10 and no problems with it. What it is,   is an upgrade of windows 7 from what I have been told. Anyhow, it works perfect for me. No problems since day 1 with it. 

Maybe your not liking it as good as 7 may be how you have everything set-up on it, is that possible?  My Son in CA helped set mine up and install things on it. He has been deeply involved in computers and things for over 11-12+ years or more. In fact he built his own  first computer and has built many more since then. He too prefers 10 over 7. Just disgusted that aol has gotten worse over the years.

This wasn't directed at me, but to clarify, Win7 was a far better platform and much more user friendly than Win8 or Win10, without a bunch of garbage applications and "app store junk". Even my OLD machine from back in the early 90's with Windows 3.1 had a spread-sheet application and pretty decent word-processor with templates. Win8/10 doesn't have ANY of that!!! I had Win7 for several years until my desktop PC crashed...I never thought I'd say I hate a computer, but, well, yeah, with Win8 I learned to hate them, and I've been using computers since 1993 (when they costed a ton for 1% of what you can get now for 10% of what they costed then). Anyway, I figured the upgrade to Win10 couldn't be worse, but there's even more useless crap that goes along with it.

The only real problems with Win8 or Win10 are the MS browsers that they pack with it...MS Explorer 10 (or something) with Win8, and MS Edge with Win10. I've had issues with MS Explorer in the past and they went through a ton of security updates since then, but I lost all trust in their browsers long ago. FireFox browser has a boat-load of add-ons to get it the way you want it for security, privacy and ease of use, and nothing you don't want. You have to choose what to add and you can ignore what you don't want...if you don't add something, then, it's not part of the package...simple. When I saw the options for FF, I thought: "FINALLY, someone with the user in mind!!!"

Oh, BTW, I don't use typical search engines such as google, yahoo, etc, either...StartPage and a few others for FireFox have been good to work with, and they're private.

What drives me nuts with Win10 is the constant updates...they are almost weekly lately and it wastes tons of my time for installs. I need to find the settings for this and see if I can stop the junk updates and only do the high-priority/security updates. Huh, I just realized, with Win7, I could choose what not to install and delete the prompt for those while updating what was actually needed...wow, I miss that.

Eric

 

[dr k]

@forluvofsmoke
In 1998 I got my Compaq Presario 5170 Windows Pentium II for $2k with printer and scanner that has a wopping 256MB of Ram. Lol I work from home and need it to send/receive faxes and electronically store them like emails. Needless to say it's only for offline use and its a PITA to start because on start ups the screen freezes and you have to hold down the power button to force a power off and restart, doing this several times before the tower successfully powers up. So I have disabled the power management to never sleep or turn off otherwise I'll miss faxed in orders. I did get a back up fax many years ago that answers in four rings incase my computer that answers in two rings craters. If it wasn't for the need to fax in my line of business then it would just be a glorified boat anchor. It works great scanning and faxing so you can view pages like an email before sending so you know exactly how it will turn out on the receivers end. I do have a window 7 laptop for all other computer needs which is way better on SMF with uploading pics and posting than a phone.
-Kurt

 

[daricksta]

 
I have windows 10 and no problems with it. What it is,   is an upgrade of windows 7 from what I have been told. Anyhow, it works perfect for me. No problems since day 1 with it. 

Maybe your not liking it as good as 7 may be how you have everything set-up on it, is that possible?  My Son in CA helped set mine up and install things on it. He has been deeply involved in computers and things for over 11-12+ years or more. In fact he built his own  first computer and has built many more since then. He too prefers 10 over 7. Just disgusted that aol has gotten worse over the years.

My wife and I are used to Windows and its traditional graphic interface. We use the taskbar and the Start Menu all the time, both things W10 chose to hide with its Desktop. For me, it took me more steps to get to where I wanted to be with W10 instead of starting off right there with W7. And, as I wrote, W10 loaded the Desktop with links to stores to buy media and gaming stuff that I have no interest in. I read that one big reason why MS could offer the upgrade free was because of the marketing stuff that was on the Desktop. No idea when MS will stop supporting W7 with security updates but I'll deal with it after that.

Also, I'm surprised people still subscribe to AOL unless they still have dial up internet service. We have cable broadband and we connect directly to the internet; no need to go through another ISP. I think AOL is worse these days because they've bleed a whole amount of their subscriber base. I don't understand the ongoing need for it and ISPs like EarthLink. Why use their cable or DSL modems when you can either rent from your local cable or phone company or even go out and buy your own modem? We've had cable internet for 15 years now with the local cable TV company being our ISP. We use them only internet only, not TV.

 

[daricksta]

@forluvofsmoke
In 1998 I got my Compaq Presario 5170 Windows Pentium II for $2k with printer and scanner that has a wopping 256MB of Ram. Lol I work from home and need it to send/receive faxes and electronically store them like emails. Needless to say it's only for offline use and its a PITA to start because on start ups the screen freezes and you have to hold down the power button to force a power off and restart, doing this several times before the tower successfully powers up. So I have disabled the power management to never sleep or turn off otherwise I'll miss faxed in orders. I did get a back up fax many years ago that answers in four rings incase my computer that answers in two rings craters. If it wasn't for the need to fax in my line of business then it would just be a glorified boat anchor. It works great scanning and faxing so you can view pages like an email before sending so you know exactly how it will turn out on the receivers end. I do have a window 7 laptop for all other computer needs which is way better on SMF with uploading pics and posting than a phone.
-Kurt

Interesting. Our first desktop was a Compaq Presario (don't remember the model number) which we bought at Costco for $1700 in 1997. I wound up returning it a few weeks later and paying maybe slightly less for a custom-made desktop. In 2000 I completed a 1 week PC tech certification class so after that I was able to build and service desktop computers myself. I no longer build them since they're cheaper to buy but I can swap out components and troubleshoot/repair/service.  But I wasn't trained to work on laptops so unfortunately they're outside by realm of expertise until I get an old working one to fool around with.

 

[daricksta]

 
Yeah, been around here a while now...just past the 8yr mark...doesn't seem that long because it's all been good fun, good food and good people to share the ride with along the way.

I think it's a 50ct of PMs for standard accounts...it may have changed over the years, but I haven't read up on that for quite a while.

Oh, Win10 SUX!!! I have a Asus notebook that came with Win8 almost 2 years ago, which is mainly a tablet OS for touch-screen devices. Word is that Win8 will become obsolete soon due to lack of support/updates. The Win10 upgrade was free until July, 2016, IIRC, so I jumped on just for support/security updates. It's really just another BS touch-screen OS with more crap that only a select few will want or need. I spent a couple hours uninstalling loads of crap...uh, I mean useless apps. Seriously, if you want to buy and/or install apps, why not find it online? They're dumbing-down people in so many ways with all of the "oh, look what we did for you here...and we did it for FREE!!!" It's ridiculous to even think about the angles they're coming from when they drop all this garbage into a OS package...they must REALLY either think people are absolutely stupid, or too lazy to type in a search.

This wasn't directed at me, but to clarify, Win7 was a far better platform and much more user friendly than Win8 or Win10, without a bunch of garbage applications and "app store junk". Even my OLD machine from back in the early 90's with Windows 3.1 had a spread-sheet application and pretty decent word-processor with templates. Win8/10 doesn't have ANY of that!!! I had Win7 for several years until my desktop PC crashed...I never thought I'd say I hate a computer, but, well, yeah, with Win8 I learned to hate them, and I've been using computers since 1993 (when they costed a ton for 1% of what you can get now for 10% of what they costed then). Anyway, I figured the upgrade to Win10 couldn't be worse, but there's even more useless crap that goes along with it.

The only real problems with Win8 or Win10 are the MS browsers that they pack with it...MS Explorer 10 (or something) with Win8, and MS Edge with Win10. I've had issues with MS Explorer in the past and they went through a ton of security updates since then, but I lost all trust in their browsers long ago. FireFox browser has a boat-load of add-ons to get it the way you want it for security, privacy and ease of use, and nothing you don't want. You have to choose what to add and you can ignore what you don't want...if you don't add something, then, it's not part of the package...simple. When I saw the options for FF, I thought: "FINALLY, someone with the user in mind!!!"

Oh, BTW, I don't use typical search engines such as google, yahoo, etc, either...StartPage and a few others for FireFox have been good to work with, and they're private.

What drives me nuts with Win10 is the constant updates...they are almost weekly lately and it wastes tons of my time for installs. I need to find the settings for this and see if I can stop the junk updates and only do the high-priority/security updates. Huh, I just realized, with Win7, I could choose what not to install and delete the prompt for those while updating what was actually needed...wow, I miss that.

Eric

MS Edge instead of IE? I hated it. I'm still comfortable with IE and the other browsers I use. With Edge my Norton security apps were incompatible along with other stuff. I use Google and sometimes DuckDuckGo for search engines. I just do whatever's easiest. I use IE, FF and Chrome in that order of browsers. Overall I like IE but it crashes a lot more now than it ever has. I've had some of that happen with FF. Could be some of the add ons, I don't know and it doesn't happen enough to bother me enough to find out. I've downloaded some add ons for all the browsers but not a lot. I'm not a big browsers utilities guy. I download programs for what I need that integrate with browsers but can also work independently. I also choose which Windows updates to install. I found out that the printer driver update screwed up my Canon printer.

I have W7 configured to download and install major updates only. Every so often when I go out to the computer in the morning it rebooted itself to install those updates. From what you've written, W10 would drive me nuts. In fact, in the 10-20 minutes I had it installed it DID drive me nuts. That's why I reverted back to W7.

 

[brickguy221]

 
Yeah, been around here a while now...just past the 8yr mark...doesn't seem that long because it's all been good fun, good food and good people to share the ride with along the way.

I think it's a 50ct of PMs for standard accounts...it may have changed over the years, but I haven't read up on that for quite a while.

Oh, Win10 SUX!!! I have a Asus notebook that came with Win8 almost 2 years ago, which is mainly a tablet OS for touch-screen devices. Word is that Win8 will become obsolete soon due to lack of support/updates. The Win10 upgrade was free until July, 2016, IIRC, so I jumped on just for support/security updates. It's really just another BS touch-screen OS with more crap that only a select few will want or need. I spent a couple hours uninstalling loads of crap...uh, I mean useless apps. Seriously, if you want to buy and/or install apps, why not find it online? They're dumbing-down people in so many ways with all of the "oh, look what we did for you here...and we did it for FREE!!!" It's ridiculous to even think about the angles they're coming from when they drop all this garbage into a OS package...they must REALLY either think people are absolutely stupid, or too lazy to type in a search.

This wasn't directed at me, but to clarify, Win7 was a far better platform and much more user friendly than Win8 or Win10, without a bunch of garbage applications and "app store junk". Even my OLD machine from back in the early 90's with Windows 3.1 had a spread-sheet application and pretty decent word-processor with templates. Win8/10 doesn't have ANY of that!!! I had Win7 for several years until my desktop PC crashed...I never thought I'd say I hate a computer, but, well, yeah, with Win8 I learned to hate them, and I've been using computers since 1993 (when they costed a ton for 1% of what you can get now for 10% of what they costed then). Anyway, I figured the upgrade to Win10 couldn't be worse, but there's even more useless crap that goes along with it.

The only real problems with Win8 or Win10 are the MS browsers that they pack with it...MS Explorer 10 (or something) with Win8, and MS Edge with Win10. I've had issues with MS Explorer in the past and they went through a ton of security updates since then, but I lost all trust in their browsers long ago. FireFox browser has a boat-load of add-ons to get it the way you want it for security, privacy and ease of use, and nothing you don't want. You have to choose what to add and you can ignore what you don't want...if you don't add something, then, it's not part of the package...simple. When I saw the options for FF, I thought: "FINALLY, someone with the user in mind!!!"

Oh, BTW, I don't use typical search engines such as google, yahoo, etc, either...StartPage and a few others for FireFox have been good to work with, and they're private.

What drives me nuts with Win10 is the constant updates...they are almost weekly lately and it wastes tons of my time for installs. I need to find the settings for this and see if I can stop the junk updates and only do the high-priority/security updates. Huh, I just realized, with Win7, I could choose what not to install and delete the prompt for those while updating what was actually needed...wow, I miss that.

Eric

Myself & my family liked Windows 7 really well and hated Windows 8 and even finally canceled Windows 8 and returned to Windows 7 and stayed there until Windows 10 came out of which we love. I got a new Dell Lap Top recently of which came with the latest version of Windows 10 and not have a single problem nor complaint thus far ... ( knock on wood ... lol ) ... 

It appears that people like myself,  like Windows 10 while others like yourself don't like Windows 10, so the bottom line here is "to each his own". 

 
Yeah, been around here a while now...just past the 8yr mark...doesn't seem that long because it's all been good fun, good food and good people to share the ride with along the way.

I think it's a 50ct of PMs for standard accounts...it may have changed over the years, but I haven't read up on that for quite a while.

Oh, Win10 SUX!!! I have a Asus notebook that came with Win8 almost 2 years ago, which is mainly a tablet OS for touch-screen devices. Word is that Win8 will become obsolete soon due to lack of support/updates. The Win10 upgrade was free until July, 2016, IIRC, so I jumped on just for support/security updates. It's really just another BS touch-screen OS with more crap that only a select few will want or need. I spent a couple hours uninstalling loads of crap...uh, I mean useless apps. Seriously, if you want to buy and/or install apps, why not find it online? They're dumbing-down people in so many ways with all of the "oh, look what we did for you here...and we did it for FREE!!!" It's ridiculous to even think about the angles they're coming from when they drop all this garbage into a OS package...they must REALLY either think people are absolutely stupid, or too lazy to type in a search.

This wasn't directed at me, but to clarify, Win7 was a far better platform and much more user friendly than Win8 or Win10, without a bunch of garbage applications and "app store junk". Even my OLD machine from back in the early 90's with Windows 3.1 had a spread-sheet application and pretty decent word-processor with templates. Win8/10 doesn't have ANY of that!!! I had Win7 for several years until my desktop PC crashed...I never thought I'd say I hate a computer, but, well, yeah, with Win8 I learned to hate them, and I've been using computers since 1993 (when they costed a ton for 1% of what you can get now for 10% of what they costed then). Anyway, I figured the upgrade to Win10 couldn't be worse, but there's even more useless crap that goes along with it.

The only real problems with Win8 or Win10 are the MS browsers that they pack with it...MS Explorer 10 (or something) with Win8, and MS Edge with Win10. I've had issues with MS Explorer in the past and they went through a ton of security updates since then, but I lost all trust in their browsers long ago. FireFox browser has a boat-load of add-ons to get it the way you want it for security, privacy and ease of use, and nothing you don't want. You have to choose what to add and you can ignore what you don't want...if you don't add something, then, it's not part of the package...simple. When I saw the options for FF, I thought: "FINALLY, someone with the user in mind!!!"

Oh, BTW, I don't use typical search engines such as google, yahoo, etc, either...StartPage and a few others for FireFox have been good to work with, and they're private.

What drives me nuts with Win10 is the constant updates...they are almost weekly lately and it wastes tons of my time for installs. I need to find the settings for this and see if I can stop the junk updates and only do the high-priority/security updates. Huh, I just realized, with Win7, I could choose what not to install and delete the prompt for those while updating what was actually needed...wow, I miss that.

Eric

 
Yeah, been around here a while now...just past the 8yr mark...doesn't seem that long because it's all been good fun, good food and good people to share the ride with along the way.

I think it's a 50ct of PMs for standard accounts...it may have changed over the years, but I haven't read up on that for quite a while.

Oh, Win10 SUX!!! I have a Asus notebook that came with Win8 almost 2 years ago, which is mainly a tablet OS for touch-screen devices. Word is that Win8 will become obsolete soon due to lack of support/updates. The Win10 upgrade was free until July, 2016, IIRC, so I jumped on just for support/security updates. It's really just another BS touch-screen OS with more crap that only a select few will want or need. I spent a couple hours uninstalling loads of crap...uh, I mean useless apps. Seriously, if you want to buy and/or install apps, why not find it online? They're dumbing-down people in so many ways with all of the "oh, look what we did for you here...and we did it for FREE!!!" It's ridiculous to even think about the angles they're coming from when they drop all this garbage into a OS package...they must REALLY either think people are absolutely stupid, or too lazy to type in a search.

This wasn't directed at me, but to clarify, Win7 was a far better platform and much more user friendly than Win8 or Win10, without a bunch of garbage applications and "app store junk". Even my OLD machine from back in the early 90's with Windows 3.1 had a spread-sheet application and pretty decent word-processor with templates. Win8/10 doesn't have ANY of that!!! I had Win7 for several years until my desktop PC crashed...I never thought I'd say I hate a computer, but, well, yeah, with Win8 I learned to hate them, and I've been using computers since 1993 (when they costed a ton for 1% of what you can get now for 10% of what they costed then). Anyway, I figured the upgrade to Win10 couldn't be worse, but there's even more useless crap that goes along with it.

The only real problems with Win8 or Win10 are the MS browsers that they pack with it...MS Explorer 10 (or something) with Win8, and MS Edge with Win10. I've had issues with MS Explorer in the past and they went through a ton of security updates since then, but I lost all trust in their browsers long ago. FireFox browser has a boat-load of add-ons to get it the way you want it for security, privacy and ease of use, and nothing you don't want. You have to choose what to add and you can ignore what you don't want...if you don't add something, then, it's not part of the package...simple. When I saw the options for FF, I thought: "FINALLY, someone with the user in mind!!!"

Oh, BTW, I don't use typical search engines such as google, yahoo, etc, either...StartPage and a few others for FireFox have been good to work with, and they're private.

What drives me nuts with Win10 is the constant updates...they are almost weekly lately and it wastes tons of my time for installs. I need to find the settings for this and see if I can stop the junk updates and only do the high-priority/security updates. Huh, I just realized, with Win7, I could choose what not to install and delete the prompt for those while updating what was actually needed...wow, I miss that.

Eric

 
My wife and I are used to Windows and its traditional graphic interface. We use the taskbar and the Start Menu all the time, both things W10 chose to hide with its Desktop. For me, it took me more steps to get to where I wanted to be with W10 instead of starting off right there with W7. And, as I wrote, W10 loaded the Desktop with links to stores to buy media and gaming stuff that I have no interest in. I read that one big reason why MS could offer the upgrade free was because of the marketing stuff that was on the Desktop. No idea when MS will stop supporting W7 with security updates but I'll deal with it after that.

Also, I'm surprised people still subscribe to AOL unless they still have dial up internet service. We have cable broadband and we connect directly to the internet; no need to go through another ISP. I think AOL is worse these days because they've bleed a whole amount of their subscriber base. I don't understand the ongoing need for it and ISPs like EarthLink. Why use their cable or DSL modems when you can either rent from your local cable or phone company or even go out and buy your own modem? We've had cable internet for 15 years now with the local cable TV company being our ISP. We use them only internet only, not TV.

We use Cox Cable for everything, phone, internet, and etc. Have used aol ever since back in the nineties when we first started using computers. I will admit it isn't as good as it once was, but has many features we are used to and love, so we have stayed with it. Several members of my family still use aol also. I wouldn't trade the aol mail system for any other. We have tried many others and always go back to aol. Aol isn't with it's problems at times, but to get the things we like with it, we find it worth putting up with.

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Hey Rick, I spent about 1/2 hour last night researching the latest updates that hit my Win10 laptop, because I wanted to uninstall some changes they made to the desktop/start menu. Guess what? It was all a bunch of bundled together crap that they slipped in along with updates for fixes on critical issues that were identified in the past. So, if I can't figure out how to break down each package and sort out the junk to uninstall (which I doubt can be done without a feverish effort), I'm stuck with all of it.

Kinda makes a guy want to walk away from MS altogether, and I probably will with the next laptop I buy. I strongly dislike being forced to eat the crap they stuff down our throats. But I will research the alternatives and options thoroughly...all I know for sure is that I want nothing to do with anything that Apple has to offer, from PCs, laptops and phones, to pads/tablets...never owned one, never will...over-priced, over-rated, and entirely too many incompatibilities. Everyone I've known that has had a product beginning with "i" says they never crash and they never get bugs, and blah-blah-blah-blah-blah...they have nothing to say when their non-issues become reality. To each his own...

Anyway, I'm hoping my little Asus Win10 will keep running long enough to find what I really want. I had multiple freeze-ups running Win8...to the point that I thought my machine was crashed. Couldn't restart because nothing was responsive...not even Task Manager would open. Push and hold the power button did nothing...and I didn't even have the browser open or anything else running. One time I had to just let it sit for about 20 hours until the battery ran completely dead just to get it to shut down so I could restart in safe mode...yeah, they can keep Win8. I'm waiting for Win10 to do the same thing. MAYBE, just maybe they figured out those issues and with Win10 and the recent updates that all went bye-bye...time will tell.

Eric

 

[daricksta]

 
Hey Rick, I spent about 1/2 hour last night researching the latest updates that hit my Win10 laptop, because I wanted to uninstall some changes they made to the desktop/start menu. Guess what? It was all a bunch of bundled together crap that they slipped in along with updates for fixes on critical issues that were identified in the past. So, if I can't figure out how to break down each package and sort out the junk to uninstall (which I doubt can be done without a feverish effort), I'm stuck with all of it.

Kinda makes a guy want to walk away from MS altogether, and I probably will with the next laptop I buy. I strongly dislike being forced to eat the crap they stuff down our throats. But I will research the alternatives and options thoroughly...all I know for sure is that I want nothing to do with anything that Apple has to offer, from PCs, laptops and phones, to pads/tablets...never owned one, never will...over-priced, over-rated, and entirely too many incompatibilities. Everyone I've known that has had a product beginning with "i" says they never crash and they never get bugs, and blah-blah-blah-blah-blah...they have nothing to say when their non-issues become reality. To each his own...

Anyway, I'm hoping my little Asus Win10 will keep running long enough to find what I really want. I had multiple freeze-ups running Win8...to the point that I thought my machine was crashed. Couldn't restart because nothing was responsive...not even Task Manager would open. Push and hold the power button did nothing...and I didn't even have the browser open or anything else running. One time I had to just let it sit for about 20 hours until the battery ran completely dead just to get it to shut down so I could restart in safe mode...yeah, they can keep Win8. I'm waiting for Win10 to do the same thing. MAYBE, just maybe they figured out those issues and with Win10 and the recent updates that all went bye-bye...time will tell.

Eric

Eric, I briefly worked as a temp for MS as an escalation (2nd tier) support tech and I can tell you that from my experience the company has always been horribly managed. Doesn't surprise me that with the debt MS has amassed from some its really bad company purchases they're force feeding unwanted (but profitable) bloatware updates for W10. Problem is that most of us use Windows because most of the programs out there are written for it, most of us aren't Linux code writing geeks, and most of the Apple software is now targeted for iPhones and iPads. But I know about Asus laptops and they're fine machines.

But you gave me another justification for staying with W7 because the Windows Updates aren't bundled with junk and I retain the option to install the optional non-priority updates. But even then there have been Windows Updates going back to XP that screwed up computers. All you can do is wait for the patches to the updates to be released.  I'm fully aware that when when I buy a laptop (which is penciled in for the future) I'll be forced to deal with W10 then.

Rick

Ironically, when I sat down at my puter this morning  the router was disconnected from the cable modem and I couldn't wake up the desktop. I had to push the power off/on button to restart the machine. This has historically been a recurring issue with every version of Windows I've owned going back to W95 2nd edition.

 

[daricksta]

 
Myself & my family liked Windows 7 really well and hated Windows 8 and even finally canceled Windows 8 and returned to Windows 7 and stayed there until Windows 10 came out of which we love. I got a new Dell Lap Top recently of which came with the latest version of Windows 10 and not have a single problem nor complaint thus far ... ( knock on wood ... lol ) ... 

It appears that people like myself,  like Windows 10 while others like yourself don't like Windows 10, so the bottom line here is "to each his own". 

We use Cox Cable for everything, phone, internet, and etc. Have used aol ever since back in the nineties when we first started using computers. I will admit it isn't as good as it once was, but has many features we are used to and love, so we have stayed with it. Several members of my family still use aol also. I wouldn't trade the aol mail system for any other. We have tried many others and always go back to aol. Aol isn't with it's problems at times, but to get the things we like with it, we find it worth putting up with.

When I wrote about AOL I was thinking that most likely you like the ease of the email system. In the early days (1997-2005 or so) we used Outlook Express which came free with Windows. We've always liked it. Since we purchased MS Office some years ago we now use Outlook for our personal email and online Outlook for business stuff or for emails that we don't want delivered to our personal email address. I also had us on AOL for a brief time back in the late '90s. I remember that it was easy to start the free trial period but I had to jump some hoops to cancel and they kept sending me emails with special deals to reconsider. We really liked Prodigy and then EarthLink way back then. When we moved to our current house back in 2001 and chose to have our local cable TV company provide our internet connection that's when we cancelled EarthLink because it was no longer needed.

And yes, when it comes to operating systems, to each their own.