Avoid Temp Swings in MES (By Bear)

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Bear, how many cycles does it take, or how long does it take, for the temps to settle into a reasonable range, say +- 10F of 225F, if you just set it at 225F and leave it.  30min?  45min?
Mummel, I'm not Bear but I've recently had this discussion with Jted and with Bear. Jted said that at about the 3-hour mark the temp should more or less stabilize (I'm really paraphrasing his words here) and from my personal experience I agree with him. In fact, after that point I've seen the controller remain at the set point--with a few degrees either way--for the rest of the smoke. Remember that I've got a MES 30 Gen 1. Your experience with your smoker may be different, especially if you have a MES 40 and a different generation. But this is what I've observed the past 5 times or so I've smoked.
 
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Avoid Temp Swings in MES   (By Bear)

How I avoid much of the annoying heat over-running (Temp Swings):

A lot of MES owners complain about the wide cycling spreads they get for awhile at the beginning of a Smoke.

The following method I use should work with all MES units, and probably any other electric smoker without a PID set-up.

When you start an MES by preheating it to a set temp it will run all the way to that set temp before the heating element shuts off. This could take in the area of one half hour. Then the heat will continue to rise for a while. I call that “Coasting”. The longer the run either up or down, the farther it will Coast. 

In other words, if you want your smoker to be at 230°, and you set it at 230°, it will shut off at 230°, but depending on things like Ambient Temp, Wind, etc, etc the heat in the smoker could Coast up to 240°, 250° or sometimes even more. Then once it stops Coasting, the temp will eventually begin to fall, and continue to fall until it hits one or two degrees below your temp setting, and then the element comes on. Then since it just had another relatively long run coming down from the over-run you just had above 230°, it will now continue to fall below the set point after the element comes on. It may fall down as low as 20° or more below your set point before the temp of the smoker begins to rise again.

This over-running can continue for a good number of heating & cooling cycles, before it settles down to only over-running a few degrees above and below your set point.

The best way I have found to avoid this annoying problem is as follows:

If you want your smoker to be 230° inside, set your control at 215°. Then let it run & shut off at 215°. Then watch how far it Coasts above 215° before it stops & begins to fall. If it runs to 230° or above, change your setting to 230°. Now that it won’t be dropping a long way before reaching the set point, it also won’t over-run much below the set point after the heating element comes on. Then since it won’t be making a long run to get back up to 230°, it won’t over-run much above that 230° shut-off point. 

This will cut way down on the Over-running above & below your set point in a much shorter time than it would without playing this little game.

Also if on that first run up, it only Coasts to 225° instead of 230°, just slide your heat setting up to 223° or 224°, and catch it at 230° on the next cycle.

Once you do this for a few smokes you’ll be able to fine tune it. I have it more fine tuned than the above, but it would take too long to explain it in type.

Note: For those of us who live in the North, you will learn that the heating tends to over-run in the Upward direction more in the Summer than in the Winter, and it will Over-run more in the Downward direction in the Winter than in the Summer.

I hope this helps some of those who don’t like seeing the big Temp Swings in their Electric Smokers.

Bear
I've made a management decision. Instead of waiting for you or someone else to bump this post I'm copy/pasting the text to a Word doc and saving it to my hard drive. This is tremendously helpful info and using my method I'll always know where it is. I hope to hell that you haven't copyrighted it...

Cheers, Bear!
beercheer.gif
 
Thanks.  Yeah 3 hours would be really insane to get stable temps.  I could live with 30min, but 3 hours in you're basically done with your ribs.  I need to document the swings in my MES 40 next time.  This is where that iGrill chart would come in really handy.
 
 
Thanks.  Yeah 3 hours would be really insane to get stable temps.  I could live with 30min, but 3 hours in you're basically done with your ribs.  I need to document the swings in my MES 40 next time.  This is where that iGrill chart would come in really handy.
I smoke my ribs for 6 hours. At a set point between 225-235° no way would they be done in my smoker in 3 hours. But if you're smoking at 250° and higher that would speed things up.

It could also be two hours when the temp stabilizes. I'll take a definitive stand and say 2-3 hours just to be safe. No fewer nor more than that, from my observation.
 
 
@Bearcarver, I knew my humor wouldn't translate into writing. I was afraid that my statement "A lot of things I didn't tell you? How am I to know what you're going to ask???" would be taken seriously. I meant it to be stupidly absurd. I should have put a smiley face after it. I just saw all that you went through with Ostrichsak although I really didn't read any of it because it looks like it spiraled out of control and get very heated. I picked the wrong time to try to be funny with you.

I'll be smoking a brisket next week and I'll see then if there's a controller problem or not if the temp skyrockets again during the heatup. I'm afraid you're right, my controller might have intermittent problems and intermittent electrical or electronic problems tend to grow into chronic problems until the component fails.

Regarding the PM you sent me about cooking at 150° I think I missed it and I'm very sorry that I did because it would have made a difference. I thought I read all your PMs to me but either I missed that one or I skimmed over it somehow. Sometimes when there's a lot going on in the room where my computer is I'll get distracted. As for boosting the cooking temp to 250°, I realized it was too high for the steaks but I was trying to bring the IT up to 95° more quickly. I thought it would take 2-3 hours but it wound up taking less than an hour. My other excuse is that on that morning I was a bit stressed, concerned that I wouldn't be able to pull off dinner. I was really worried that I had made things too complicated and that I had bitten off more than I could chew--and I'm not only talking about the steak! But it did all work out and everyone enjoyed the meal and Father's Day turned out wonderfully well.

I apologize if you thought I was also picking a fight with you. I credit you with my doing as well as I did with the steaks but I curse myself for missing or overlooking your advice about cooking at 150°. Darn it all, Bear! I demand a rematch with ribeye steaks because I know next time it'll be easier and I'll nail medium rare for my son and I. I'll just ruin my wife's and daughter's steaks (medium to medium well) as per usual.
No problem Rick---I wasn't mad at you for kidding around, because I know your sense of humor. I was a little disappointed that when you mentioned in a PM about using my Step by Step on Prime Rib for single steaks, I said NO----that temp's only for roasts---Use about 150° or it will get done too soon, and you missed that, and went right to 250°.

Bear
 
Bear, how many cycles does it take, or how long does it take, for the temps to settle into a reasonable range, say +- 10F of 225F, if you just set it at 225F and leave it.  30min?  45min?
Without doing anything, it's hard to say, because of a lot of variables, plus it's been a long time since I started this method. I just never posted it, because maybe somebody would bring other things into the thread & get it all botched up. Imagine me thinking that.

The only answer I can give you from my recent memory is if you use my method it will cut those swings down to very little time.

Bear

BTW Guys: Sorry it took awhile to get back to you guys, but I had a Dr Appointment 15 miles away, and now we got a serious thunder storm & Tornado threats until 7 PM.
 
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We also had tornado warnings up here in Mass.
Yup I saw that !!

There was a Box that contained most of PA, and another one that contained most of NY City & most of New England.

It's kinda rare for us to get Tornadoes around here---Knock on wood!!

Bear
 
Bear, here are my findings:

-ambient temp of 63F with 71% RH

-set smoker to 215F

-when my Maverick hit 215F, I turned off the smoker (the MES display said it was at 195F, thats a huge diffs..... explains a lot of the over swing in the beginning, as it vastly overheats)

-the temps on my Mav topped out at 235F

-quickly turned on my smoker again and set it to 225F, smoker temp said 205F

-smoker continued to them heat until 225F, and my Mav said the temps were 255F at this point

-heat then coasted until smoker temp was 236F and Mav said 264F (a big diffs)

-I then opened the door to put the BCBs in, smoker temp dropped to 220F with Mav saying 212F

-it took 2 minuted for my Mav temps to hit 225 from 212F (not bad at all)

-Smoker temp was back to 225F 6 minutes later, then Mav temp said 250F

Im currently watching the temps and I must say, it probably takes a good 1h for the temps to stabilize.  The MES cooks at WAAAAYYYY too high temps in the beginning of your smoke.  Preheating and babying the temps seems like a prerequisite before putting in your meat. 

1 hour later = Mav temp topping out at 253F and bottoming out at 212F with the smoker temp set to 225F.  Still cooking on the high side.

Bear whats the best way to stop the MES from cooking your meat at too high temps for the first 1.5 hours?  Maybe set the smoker to 215F for the first hour?  Then bump it up to 225F?  The other day I set my smoker to 225F, put in my AMPS, turned it on, and went to the store.  I can only imagine my ribs cooking at 300F for first 30 minutes.....  What the heck! 
 
Do you mean the heat probe that hangs on the left side of rack three? Or the button sensor that sits above rack four? I have always seen a huge difference between the display temperature and the meat probe temperature. Doesn't make sense. Next time I started I think I'll place the meat probe right next to that button sensor and see what the difference is.
 
 
Bear, here are my findings:

-ambient temp of 63F with 71% RH

-set smoker to 215F

-when my Maverick hit 215F, I turned off the smoker (the MES display said it was at 195F, thats a huge diffs..... explains a lot of the over swing in the beginning, as it vastly overheats)

-the temps on my Mav topped out at 235F

-quickly turned on my smoker again and set it to 225F, smoker temp said 205F

-smoker continued to them heat until 225F, and my Mav said the temps were 255F at this point

-heat then coasted until smoker temp was 236F and Mav said 264F (a big diffs)

-I then opened the door to put the BCBs in, smoker temp dropped to 220F with Mav saying 212F

-it took 2 minuted for my Mav temps to hit 225 from 212F (not bad at all)

-Smoker temp was back to 225F 6 minutes later, then Mav temp said 250F

Im currently watching the temps and I must say, it probably takes a good 1h for the temps to stabilize.  The MES cooks at WAAAAYYYY too high temps in the beginning of your smoke.  Preheating and babying the temps seems like a prerequisite before putting in your meat. 

1 hour later = Mav temp topping out at 253F and bottoming out at 212F with the smoker temp set to 225F.  Still cooking on the high side.

Bear whats the best way to stop the MES from cooking your meat at too high temps for the first 1.5 hours?  Maybe set the smoker to 215F for the first hour?  Then bump it up to 225F?  The other day I set my smoker to 225F, put in my AMPS, turned it on, and went to the store.  I can only imagine my ribs cooking at 300F for first 30 minutes.....  What the heck! 
I would do what I explained in my Post #1 of this thread.

And also---Always set your MES to whatever it takes to get your Maverick to read the temp you want to smoke at.

One question for you--------Why would you turn your MES off during a smoke??

Bear
 
Do you mean the heat probe that hangs on the left side of rack three? Or the button sensor that sits above rack four? I have always seen a huge difference between the display temperature and the meat probe temperature. Doesn't make sense. Next time I started I think I'll place the meat probe right next to that button sensor and see what the difference is.
The thing that looks like a toggle switch on the back wall is the MES smoker temp sensor.

I never use my built in MES meat probe as a smoker temp measuring device. It's always a lot different than any of my other probes, probably because it was designed to be inside a piece of meat.

However I don't use that one for anything, because it's kinda hard to do a boiling test with it. LOL---I don't want to carry my smoker to my kitchen, and I don't want to carry my kitchen stove to my front porch---Besides--The 220V line is too short.

The only thing I use the MES read-out is to set the temp. Then I adjust that until my Maverick reads what I want. I wouldn't trust any of the MES readings---Or any other Built in Smoker temp readings.

Bear
 
I am doing an experiment right now. I placed the meat probe, my Maverick meat probe and my Maverick cooker probe all as close to the MES cooker sensor as possible.

Then I turned the unit on set at 225. I think I already see the problem, but will watch it through a couple more cycles, then report my findings.

This is fun,
 
Do you mean the heat probe that hangs on the left side of rack three? Or the button sensor that sits above rack four? I have always seen a huge difference between the display temperature and the meat probe temperature. Doesn't make sense. Next time I started I think I'll place the meat probe right next to that button sensor and see what the difference is.
Im talking about the button sensor.  I put my Maverick right next to it. 
 
 
I would do what I explained in my Post #1 of this thread.

And also---Always set your MES to whatever it takes to get your Maverick to read the temp you want to smoke at.

One question for you--------Why would you turn your MES off during a smoke??

Bear
I had to turn it off because my Maverick said 225F while my smoker said 195F.  If I had left the smoker run to 225F, it probably would have read 295F on my Maverick.  The bottom line is that the MES has some serious temp swing flaws for the first ~1 hour.  If you know this you can adjust, but just putting your meat in and starting it would be a really bad idea.  At 1.5 hours today my temps were fair (210F - 250F).  But Masterbuilt needs improve their temp technology IMHO.  This is a big thumbs down.
 
I am doing an experiment right now. I placed the meat probe, my Maverick meat probe and my Maverick cooker probe all as close to the MES cooker sensor as possible.

Then I turned the unit on set at 225. I think I already see the problem, but will watch it through a couple more cycles, then report my findings.

This is fun,
It looks like your button sensor has creosote.  You may need to clean it.
 
I am doing an experiment right now. I placed the meat probe, my Maverick meat probe and my Maverick cooker probe all as close to the MES cooker sensor as possible.

Then I turned the unit on set at 225. I think I already see the problem, but will watch it through a couple more cycles, then report my findings.

This is fun,
That won't work too good----I believe that button in your picture is the safety heat sensor.

The one that looks like a toggle switch is the one that is used for the heat regulation.

Bear
 
 
I had to turn it off because my Maverick said 225F while my smoker said 195F.  If I had left the smoker run to 225F, it probably would have read 295F on my Maverick.  The bottom line is that the MES has some serious temp swing flaws for the first ~1 hour.  If you know this you can adjust, but just putting your meat in and starting it would be a really bad idea.  At 1.5 hours today my temps were fair (210F - 250F).  But Masterbuilt needs improve their temp technology IMHO.  This is a big thumbs down.
So why not turn it down??? I only ever turn mine off when I'm quitting.

Bear
 
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