Amount of Sodium Nitrites

Discussion in 'Food Safety' started by mosov, May 17, 2011.

  1. Pignit wrote this way back in Jan of 2010:

    "Prague #1 (Insta-Cure #1, Modern Cure, DC #1, DQ #1, et. al., all the '#1's) is 6.25% sodium nitrite and 93.75% salt. It's used in dry cures and in brine cures, primarily for meat that will be smoked (though not necessarily) and cooked for service. It's used at the rate of 1oz/25lbs meat or 1 level teaspoon/5lbs meat."

    Question about last sentence.  Are these usage rates for both dry and wet curing?  So if I'm doing two 5 lb pork bellies, one brined and one rubbed, do I use one level Tsp for each method?

    Thx, TG
     
    desertlites likes this.
  2. fpnmf

    fpnmf Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Fl
    Last edited: May 21, 2011
  3. solaryellow

    solaryellow Limited Mod Group Lead

    No. That is the rate for rubbing the cure on the meat or what you are calling "dry curing". The correct technical answer is that you are trying to stay under a certain parts per million. The rule of thumb with brining or "wet curing" is that the amount of cure you use in a brine is proportionate to the amount of brine and not necessarily the size of the meat.
     
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  4. beer-b-q

    beer-b-q Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    This might be helpful to you. 

    Here is the link to the full article: http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing
     
  5. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Well I agree with the Yes and the No. [​IMG]

    I think we all agree the dry rub amount is correct .

    When you're talking about an immersion cure (not a pumped and wet cured product) then you need to calculate the amount of cure using the weight of meat plus the weight of the brine.  so say you had 10 lbs of pork and 1 gallon of water ( about 18 pounds total or 8172 grams ) it would be (Sorry but I like working in grams  ))))))))                )

    28g x .0625% x 1,000,000 / 8172g. =214ppm  more then the usda's recommended max of 200ppm

    If you were to use 2 gallons of water it would work out to 137ppm

    I'd say the oz is right...... if you make up enough brine.

    for more info on the subject check out the USDA's inspectors hand book starting on page 21

    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf  
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  6. fpnmf

    fpnmf Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Fl
    AmountCure #1 in ouncesCure #1 in gramsCure #1 in teaspoons
    1 gallon (8.33 lbs) of water4.212020 (6 Tbs)

     There is no way I would put 6 tablespoons of #1 in a gallon of water...

    Check out Pops  curing/brine recipe....1 tablespoon per gallon..he knows what he is talking about...

      Craig
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  7. alblancher

    alblancher Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    Interesting article Beer-B-Q  I'm going to have to refer to that link.   Funny she doesn't mention Cure 2 for hams and long cure time sausages.  I'll have to do a bit more reading and see what she says.
     
  8. alblancher

    alblancher Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    Where they throw me off is percent pickup or percent absorbed during immersion.   You could weigh the meat before and after but that doesn't account for the water weight lost from the meat vs the water/cure weight added during the cure.  Fortunately minimum safe concentrations are pretty low,  we cure at higher concentrations knowing we will be above minimum safe levels and below max safe level as long as we follow somewhat close to proper procedures.
     
  9. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    immersion cures are a crap shoot at best.. the best thing to do is get a needle and inject  the meat with what you want for a percent pick up and be done with it
     
  10. solaryellow

    solaryellow Limited Mod Group Lead


    Dammit Dan. I have a first attempt at a black ham that has been in the fridge for 28 days and has another 14 to go doing an immersion cure with sodium nitrate. I don't need you telling me it is a crapshoot at best right now. Tell me it is going to be alright and that I look pretty tonight. [​IMG]
     
  11. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    You're lookin damn good tonight Joel! [​IMG]    Can't wait to see the ham!  
     
  12. smokey mo

    smokey mo Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member


    I am sure what he meant is you will be the prettiest bell at the ball....or something like that....uh...right...ok.
     
  13. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member


    I'm with Craig on this one. I just asked Pops this same question. Here's his answer.

    I have one more question. On the bag of cure #1 it says to use 3 oz. to 1 gal. of water. 3 oz. is 5 tablespoons. Your recipe calls for only 1 tablespoon. Could you explain.

    Thank-you, 

    Al

    [​IMG]

    Pops6927
    Today at 5:29 am

    that is the maximum concentration of cure you can use.  My dad discovered 60 years ago that if you reduce the amount of cure and cured for a longer period of time, the product is more tender, tenderizing naturally over time.  More cure and less time gives a less tender, more rubbery finished product.  1 tbsp to a gallon of water gets the job done more than sufficiently, and waiting a day or three longer shows that patience is a virtue, lol!  A good example is boiled ham.  From hog to sandwich, the total production time is 24-36 hours.  Would you call it tender or rubbery, lol?
     
  14. bob1961

    bob1961 Smoking Fanatic

    ok now what bout venison jerky that you marinate over night ???....do you still use the 1 tsp to 5lbs of meat ratio it says to....i use non-heated moving air to dry my jerky for at least 12 hours after blotting as much out of the meat of marinate with paper towels....what should i follow then ??..........bob

    ....
     
  15. nepas

    nepas Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    nepas is staying out of this one cuz it looks like it can get uuuuuuugly 
     
  16. alblancher

    alblancher Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    Nepas,

    I'll make it ugly for you    "Either inject or use a dry cure"

    Al
     
  17. solaryellow

    solaryellow Limited Mod Group Lead


    Or you could try taking the training wheels off...

    I couldn't resist. ;o)
     
  18. fpnmf

    fpnmf Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Fl
    Hehehehehehehehe!!!   Don't be mean!![​IMG]
     
  19. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Sorry guys but this is one thread that I think should remain on the serious side. You may have folks on here whether members or lurkers that aren't familiar with cure #1 & think that it is just another additive to use, whether wet or dry. They need to know if you don't get it right you may be endangering your health. I have used both the recommended amount of cure on the bag of cure #1 & the amount Pops recommends & I am going to follow Pops guidelines from now on. If the meat will cure with less curing salts and just more time I think this would be the healthy alternative. This is just my opinion & I would suggest anyone who is contemplating using a cure for the first time to do a lot of research.
     
  20. solaryellow

    solaryellow Limited Mod Group Lead


    To be a little more serious, I would hope anyone that is curing meat HAS DONE A TON OF RESEARCH before giving it a try. There are some very serious risks if you get it wrong. I have used Pops' recipes in the past with great success and it is important to know that Pops has a lot of experience under his belt and probably has more knowledge of the process than we can ever hope to pry out of his skull. That being said, throwing up blanket statements about implicit trust in a person despite it not being what the FDA and professional sausage makers agree to does concern me. There are a lot of principles that have not been discussed in this thread like equalization and the chemistry behind the art of cured meat. I have met fpnmf in person and can attest that he is a great guy, his take on brines is completely wrong and could lead to someone getting sick. Do the research, investigate the chemistry and explore the art of cured meat for yourself before trying it. Nobody here wants to see anyone else get sick or worse because somebody took somebody else's advice on the internet.
     

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