A bit of Dry Cured Sausage

[atomicsmoke]

Debbie,

I don't want to hijack your thread. The spores are harmless for adults (actually only infants can't handle spores). Is the toxin that can kill us.

 

[newbiefrank]

Thank you both for your help!

 

[daveomak]

 
Normal thorough cooking (pasteurisation: 70°C 2min or equivalent) will kill Cl.botulinumbacteria but not its spores. To kill the spores of Cl.botulinum a sterilisation process equivalent to 121°C for 3 min is required. The botulinum toxin itself is inactivated (denatured) rapidly at temperatures greater than 80°C .

Glad to hear Instacures are pink now. I bought it about 20 years ago and it was white.

Howdy Deb....  Long time no hear from.....    Anywho....  would you mind checking those temps and times...   Seem just a bit off to me...  Granted I'm getting old and forgetful....   so much so I spent 20 minutes looking for the answers myself and couldn't find them...    

Thanks...   Dave

 

[daveomak]

Deb, I found it...  I don't understand the different numbers between the 2 posts....   Can you help me out....  Dave

Vegetative organisms	50°C	55°C	60°C	65°C	70°C	75°C	80°C
E. coli	4-7 min
Salmonella ssp. (average)				0.02- 0.25 min	1.2 sec
Salmonella typhimurium				0.06 min
Salmonella senftenberg*				0.8-1 min
Salmonella typhi						1 sec
Mycobacterium tuberculosis				12-18 sec		5 sec
Listeria monocytogenes			5-8 min		0.1- 0.3 min
Staph. aureus				0.2-2 min			2 sec
Campylobacter	1.1 min
Enterobacter						3 sec
Lactobacillus spp.				0.5-1 min
Spoilage bacteria, yeasts, moulds				0.5-3 min

Bacterial spores	100°C	105°C	110°C	121°C
Bacillus spp.	0.1- 0.5 min
Bacillus cereus	5 sec			0.5 sec
Bacillus anthracis	15 min
Bacillus stearothermophilus			<300 min	4-5 min
Cl. botulinum type E	0.01 min	<1 sec
Cl. botulinum spp.	50 min			0.1- 0.2 min
Cl. sporogenes				0.1- 1.5 min

 

[wade]

Hi Debi - great looking sausage. I will be trying your recipes

 
Normal thorough cooking (pasteurisation: 70°C 2min or equivalent) will kill Cl.botulinumbacteria but not its spores. To kill the spores of Cl.botulinum a sterilisation process equivalent to 121°C for 3 min is required. The botulinum toxin itself is inactivated (denatured) rapidly at temperatures greater than 80°C .

Glad to hear Instacures are pink now. I bought it about 20 years ago and it was white.

As Atomicsmoke mentioned it is the toxin and not the spores that is dangerous when ingested. C. Botulinum spores are around us all the time and we probably ingest some every time we eat fresh fruit and vegetables. As you mention though the toxin is rendered safe when it is taken to a temperature of 185 F (85 C) for 5 minutes or 176 F (80 C) for 10 minutes. So technically it is likely to be safe to eat if cooked correctly. Unfortunately other than the cure Frank used we know nothing of his method (storage temperature, pH etc) so we do not know how likely it is that CB toxin may be present. Speaking purely from a personal perspective, without the addition of any Nitrate I would treat it as I would dry cure bacon - keep it refrigerated and eat it within about 6 weeks.

@DaveOmak  - It was good you found it. What was the table you posted? The lethality time for the organisms at different temperatures?

 

[newbiefrank]

Hi Debi - great looking sausage. I will be trying your recipes Thumbs Up


As Atomicsmoke mentioned it is the toxin and not the spores that is dangerous when ingested. C. Botulinum spores are around us all the time and we probably ingest some every time we eat fresh fruit and vegetables. As you mention though the toxin is rendered safe when it is taken to a temperature of 185 F (85 C) for 5 minutes or 176 F (80 C) for 10 minutes. So technically it is likely to be safe to eat if cooked correctly. Unfortunately other than the cure Frank used we know nothing of his method (storage temperature, pH etc) so we do not know how likely it is that CB toxin may be present. Speaking purely from a personal perspective, without the addition of any Nitrate I would treat it as I would dry cure bacon - keep it refrigerated and eat it within about 6 weeks.

@DaveOmak
 - It was good you found it. What was the table you posted? The lethality time for the organisms at different temperatures?

Hello,
First of all thank you as well for your guidance. Here is what I did.

Pork shoulder. 10#
Sea salt. 4.4 oz
Paprika. 1.6 oz
Red pepper. .8oz
Grd blk pepper. .8 oz
Cayenne .4 oz
Red wine 2 cups
Instacure #1 2 level tsps (1 tsp per 5 lbs)

Kept meat partially frozen while cutting grinding and mixing. After put in casings casings were pricked and place in closet at 68 degrees for 48 hrs. Humidity was low so I sprayed casing with wine mist/ then water mist to keep moist.

Then hung in basement in controlled area with 70% humidity. And 56 ish degrees. Day 3 I squeezed sausage and looked for air none visible. Suasage has been hanging for about a week. Looks great and also smells great. The thing is I did use cure just nitrites not nitrates. Thought for short cures that would keep bot from producing toxin.(this wan an accident I intended in using cure #2)

I unfortunately do not have a ph tester but it does have a great color.

Again thank you for your replies. And like mentioned earlier at least I can cook it so it's not a complete waist.

Frank

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Yikes

rocket-science.gif

• BGKYSmoker
• Jan 29, 2017

 

[newbiefrank]

Newbiefrank,


Please keep in mind the process of conversion from nitrates to nitrites is hit and miss (at home). We, the amateur charcuotiers don't know how much of the nitrate is converted - if any. Proper conditions (temp, humidity) and bacteria are required for this conversions to take place. I saw umai bag dried meats cured in the fridge. No way the nitrate in those turned to nitrite.



Don't trash your sausage. If botulism concerns you that much cook the sausage. There are many ways a dried sausage can be used cooked.

Cheers.

Hello again Atomicsmoke.
I've been trying to research exactly how the nitrites and nitrates work while curing. With reguards to nitrite timelines, how long they are estimated to last in the dry curing process. And also researching how the nitrates work time, temp..... all that good stuff. There is a professional chef that talks about both on YouTube and he only uses nitrites for anything under 6 months. I haven't had to much luck googling this. Do you have any idea where I could find this information. Books, internet I don't care either way. Thank you for your assistance.

 

[atomicsmoke]

Hello again Atomicsmoke.
I've been trying to research exactly how the nitrites and nitrates work while curing. With reguards to nitrite timelines, how long they are estimated to last in the dry curing process. And also researching how the nitrates work time, temp..... all that good stuff. There is a professional chef that talks about both on YouTube and he only uses nitrites for anything under 6 months. I haven't had to much luck googling this. Do you have any idea where I could find this information. Books, internet I don't care either way. Thank you for your assistance.

I can't give you an educated answer to this question. Let's PM so we don't hijack the thread.

 

[wade]

 Do you have any idea where I could find this information. Books, internet I don't care either way. Thank you for your assistance.

One I often refer to is "Nitrates and Nitrites in Food and Water" by Michael J. Hill. ISBN 0-7476-0067-8

 

[hoity toit]

Salami Finocchiona

Ground pork (50%)

Beef Chuck (50%)

pork back fat (25%)

Salt (2.5%)

Cure # 2 (0.24%)

Dextrose (0.2%)

Sugar (0.2%)

Ground WHITE pepper (0.2%)

Black Peppercorns (0.4%)

whole fennel seeds (0.3%)

garlic (0.2%)

red wine (Chianti) (0.25%)

Bactoferm T-SXP

distilled water

beef middles 46-60 mm

optional crushed red pepper 2 grams

1. Grind meat and fat through 3/16” plate (5 mm). 2. Mix all ingredients with ground meat. 3. Stuff firmly into beef middles or 46-60 mm protein lined fibrous casings. 4. Ferment at 20º C (68º F) for 72 hours, 90-85% humidity. 5. Dry at 16-12º C (60-54º F), 85-80% humidity for about 30 days. The sausage is dried until around 30-35% in weight is lost. 6. Store sausages at 10-15º C (50-59º F), 75% humidity. Notes The following spice and herb combination can be found in some recipes: spices: 4 parts coriander, 3 parts mace, 2 parts allspice, 1 part fennel. herbs: 3 parts marjoram, 1 part thyme, 1 part basil. To make 5 kg sausage about 7 g of spices and 4 g of herbs are needed.

Thanks for all of the recipes.. Nice job.

 

[confederateknowhow]

Yes i have a small compressor fridge, 3.0 i think it is.

umaifinno infridge.jpg

• BGKYSmoker
• Jun 8, 2016

Are you using the UMAi Sausage casings here? I was wondering if anyone had used these with much success? I wouldn't mind giving them a go.

 

[daveomak]

Those casings look like Umai or collagen sheets...