4 hour 140*

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I usually put 1 wireless probe in at the start, then no spot probing with another thermometer until the wireless goes past 140. I have wondered about the merits of a one-time pink-salt (nitrate) steralization dip for the first probe. Thoughts?

I usually blast by 140 in 4, but last night I put two 12.5lb-trimmed briskets into the WSM, it was 39F outside, and I held back and only filled the ring to 75% full. I went to bed after 3 hours total with an IT of 131 and airT of 246, and after 7:45 hours total I woke to an IT of 154 and airT of 192. The charcoal was nearly gone :-( I think I'm safe, but I hate even having a doubt. I carefully placed some additional briquettes into the WSM, but it never recovered, so I pulled and foiled at 150 IT.

--SiletzSpey
 
So what about a compromise? Take a kitchen torch and sear 1 spot on the meat, say 1" square. Then insert your (clean) probe in at that point?

BTW, this is the first I've heard about this. I have always put in my probe at the beginning when I put in the meat, and I have never had a problem, but I will start timing it from now on.
 
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Wow, I need to watch this temp at 4 hour more often. All the different things Ive read on the Internet was to pull the Meat out for a hour or so before smoking. Now Ive always inserted my temp probe in right when I pull the meat out of the fridge. Usually about 37 degrees. Now as it sits there, for a hour or so its usually around 47-50 degrees. So the clock has already started clicking on the 40-140-4hr rule correct. Hmmm. Havent had no problems, I guess because I insert the probe in below 40!
 
You haven't had problems because

1.  You are lucky

2.  The meat was basically germ free prior to smoking

3.  You are probably a pretty healthy person that can handle a bit of food poisoning once in a while and not notice it !

The biggest mistake you made was penetrating the outside of the meat before it reached safe temps.  Remember when dealing with whole muscle meat the 4 hour rule does not apply as long as it isn't penetrated, moving bacteria into the interior of the meat. 

Next time insert the thermo about an hour into the smoke.  It's safer and you are not messing anything up.  Same with sterilized injections and needles.  You can inject all you want as long as the marinade and needle are sterile and you do it after the surface of the meat has reached a safe temp.

Good Luck and welcome to the forum  I'm expecting to see some Qview here pretty soon.
 
Many people have gotten away with inserting the probes from the beginning, or Injecting whatever, without issue because, although most of the bacteria on the outside that get pushed in will multiply while the meat is smoking, they are killed when the IT goes over 140*F...The reason for waiting an hour before inserting, or injecting, which for me is easier then fooling around with a torch, searing any part or the entire surface or any other one of the really creative things you guys have come up with is... Every once in awhile a type of bacteria can be introduced that although they themselves don't hurt you, create a Toxin as part of their feeding and reproduction that can cause serious illness and it does not matter how long you cook it or to what temp, does not get rid of these toxins...So it is just a good idea to wait, sterilize your probe or needles with Alcohol, no need to use Cure, and be as safe as possible...Just In Case!...JJ
 
I also liked to make several slits in the top of a butt and put pieces of garlic in it. I guess that could introduce bacteria inside as well?
 
I also liked to make several slits in the top of a butt and put pieces of garlic in it. I guess that could introduce bacteria inside as well?
Oh yeah, this is a great way to add Bacteria to the interior of your meat. Your finger is 10,20X's bigger than a needle or therm probe so you push more bacteria in...Most of the time we are smoking to high enough temps to kill anything you introduce, but every once in a while something goes wrong with the smoker or we smoke at too low a temp and that beautiful Pulled Pork makes you sick...Is it worth adding a few Cloves of Garlic or Injecting some Guy's Butt Butter?...I don't think so, I'll stick with a flavorful Rub and a great Sauce...JJ
 
Harley Smoker,

You cook roasts the way I like them.  Full of garlic and maybe some green onion,  yes indeed, great eating.  I normally put stuffed roasts like that in the oven because I can control the temp better.  If you want to do a pulled pork with garlic you can go ahead and smoke the butt the way we recommend and roast the garlic in the oven till done the way you like it.  When you are pulling the pork you can mash the garlic up and mix in with the pork or mix in with your finishing sauce.  

Most Chuck roasts cook pretty fast so you might get away stuffing a chuck roast if you run your smoker at 300 or so until the chuckie reaches safe temps.  Once you get to 135 internal you can turn the temp down and continue your smoke.
 
ok then, typicaly when i cold smoke my stuff to 4 hours,

trying not to bring the meat up past 105 or so,

this allows the meat - smoke to get a flavor deep into the meat not just on the outer shell.

after which i probe it and slowly turn up the heat it may take 6 to 8 hours to get the temp up to 160,

on the turkeys and hams, or i let the temp reach which ever mark i'm looking for for at least 10 min. prior to pulling it.

at times i may have as many as 8 dif. recipies-meats processing at one smoke.

 so in the case of deer/pig batches it is usauly 145 deg. but most of the time it seams to be around 150 when it finaly comes out.

it is then emerced in a cooler of ice-water.

and cooled as fast as pos. and poped into the freezer for further chill.

Is this cool?
 
Elkmaster

Basically food safety rules say that for meat that has been penetrated or mixed you need to get out of the danger zone  41 to 135 in 4 hours.  If  the meat has not been punctured (forks, thermos etc) the 4 hour rule does not apply.  All you have to do is get the surface hot enough to kill any bacteria within 4 hours.  This is why that nice thick rare steak you love is considered safe.  Use tongs to flip the meat and you are just fine.

Normally the only way to safely cold smoke a piece of meat is to cure it first.  Cure 1 or Morton's Tender quick will keep the meat safe while it is in the cold smoker in the danger zone.  Many of us will add cure to sausage, cold smoke it for a couple of hours and then gradually bring it to temperature in the hot smoker.  If I understand your post you are keeping whole cuts in the danger zone longer then recommended and you penetrate the meat by inserting a thermo in it further increasing the risk of food poisoning.

Another potential problem is that I take it from your user name you smoke a lot of wild game.  Whole other problem because cures do not kill parasites.  Only heat and long term storage at temperatures considerably below freezing will do that.

Maybe if you give us a bit more info we can offer some alternatives?

BTW  we slow smoke butts and briskets all the time between 225 and 250 degrees and they come with a great deal of smoke flavor.
 
so if i get this straight cold smoke for 3 hours or so, crank up the heat and cook it out,

wow, I'm totaly supprised i haven't died.

in alaska i just hung it out in hte sun all day dried it out agthered it up overnight.

to keep the bears off it.

then in the morning do it again,

this went on for a  week.

then when it got a good stink on it. we threw it in the branch racks

over a low fire covered with moss and let it smoke for a day.

dried out in the sun a day after that just to get the fats to christalize and walla dried meat,

my little smoke shake came a long ways from those days.

yep, I cure all my meats with the exception of store bought pork ribs and prime rib.

  so from now on it goes in just like you guy want it.

 this defintly will cut down my smoking time.

 and cut back my beer drinking. (dang)

thanks for the input.

yours truly

Elkmaster101

if you guys get a chance to attend the Iowa deer classic, 2/25,26,27/ 12

check out my booth #33

Black Diamond Hunter Accessories.
 
Elkmaster

Sounds like you have some pretty interesting experiences.  The "leave in the sun till it stinks" comment kind of throws me off a bit but then I am sure it is an acquired taste.  This is a public forum and we have a responsibility to make sure people without your experience or iron intestines for that matter are at least aware that when they try to duplicate your procedure they might spend a little time wishing they hadn't.  It's easy to do what you want to do safely.

You remind me of some of the stuff I used to eat when I was younger and drank enough alcohol to kill any bacteria and parasites that tried to grow in my belly.   Thanks for the story, brings back good times!
 
so if i get this straight cold smoke for 3 hours or so, crank up the heat and cook it out,

wow, I'm totaly supprised i haven't died.

in alaska i just hung it out in hte sun all day dried it out agthered it up overnight.

to keep the bears off it.

then in the morning do it again,

this went on for a  week.

then when it got a good stink on it. we threw it in the branch racks

over a low fire covered with moss and let it smoke for a day.

dried out in the sun a day after that just to get the fats to christalize and walla dried meat,

my little smoke shake came a long ways from those days.

yep, I cure all my meats with the exception of store bought pork ribs and prime rib.

  so from now on it goes in just like you guy want it.

 this defintly will cut down my smoking time.

 and cut back my beer drinking. (dang)

thanks for the input.

yours truly

Elkmaster101

if you guys get a chance to attend the Iowa deer classic, 2/25,26,27/ 12

check out my booth #33

Black Diamond Hunter Accessories.


I see on TV shows of Alaska they do this with seal meat and fish, but it also seems fairly cold while they do it I was assuming it was like freeze drying or something... out of curiosity what temps were you leaving your meat sit in the sun till it stinks good?
 
Days were around 60+-

never anywarmer, nights upper 20s low 30s 

really depended on the blow coming in off shore.

some night when the  snow busted on top the temps would drop in the vallies prety low.

just typ Alaska weather. if i aint raining its foggy, aint foggy its snowing

if it aint snowing the suns shining.

now this happens every day some where in Alaska.

cinook, carabou, moose, works on all.

in the back country , it just doesn't matter.

the law--- eat or be eaten is not just a fanticy. 
 
I think that you guys got the whole 40-140 wrong. What it sounds like, is you think that you temp has to be out of the danger zone while cooking, that is not true. If your food gets above 140 it is fine to eat aslong as it has not been between 40-140 for 4 hours right before you eat it.  for example if you leave a chicken out all day at 50 but then you cook it over 169 it still would be safe to eat. 
 
Sweet!  Anybody wanna buy my fridge?
ROTF.gif
 
I ain't gonna add anything to the 40-140 but I will say If you hav'nt tried a seared brisket do 1 at least once,not only have they won comps. but there the prefered way amoung a whole lotta people in the smoking world.
 
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