From Hog Leg to Easter Ham!

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POP'S you threads are informative and interesting .Keep up the good work.
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 Thank you for sharing. Easter is next weekend are you doing another Q-view.I'll keep a eye out.
 
Thanks Pops.  Great post as always.  Nice meat and great pics of the family.  I can't help myself, though?  It aint often we can see Pops holding his boner.

Good luck and good smoking!
 
No, not this year, the stars didn't line up properly for it, lol.  Initially I checked into prices and fresh hams were over $2.00/lb.  Pretty high, but for the sake of a custom cured and smoked product it would have been feasible.  Then, for the last 8 weeks have been working 6½ days a week fighting to retain my job of the last 16 years, and to top off that end they pulled a full store inventory on each of us for last weekend, and the final cut is that I am working alone Easter Day open to close so my employees could enjoy the non-holiday (company view).  One good thing is, the day after Easter I will get my first full day off in the past 2+ months (provided one of my employee's wife doesn't go into labor that day!).  After 2 strokes, however, I'm just glad to still have a job; but that's why I've not done much smoking in recent months.
 
Hey Pops,

I got a question for you, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

I finally decided to give double smoking Ham a shot, so I got a couple Hams on sale to experiment with.

I got fully cooked & smoked "Shank" ends for 79¢ per pound.

Why is this particular item so cheap?

A lot of bone?

Too much fat?

I mean the shanks were 79¢, and the butt end hams were 99¢.

Everything else was over $2 per pound.

BTW: I bought 2 of them---11 pounds each.

It says on them, "cook to 130˚", but I might take them to 140˚ to 150˚. I'll be keeping a close eye on them, once they hit 130˚.

We've been paying a fortune for the best Double Smoked Hams in SouthEast PA for many years. I just want to try that myself.

Thanks,

Bear
 
Depends on what cut you have, Bear - shank portion is quite a bit cheaper as it's had center cut slices removed, whereas shank half is more expensive because they're not.  Portions are more skin, bone and fat and not much useable meat.
 
This is a great thread and I am bumping it up for you new guys that have not seen it....
Great Thread.

Earlier pop said something about to many pictures and on another thread i read something about to much smoke.

This is just not a concept for me i dont under stand. One can never have to much art or smoke.

Thanx

Karl

Love the smoke
 
Thats great to pass down you knowledge to your sons great job wish I had a mentor to learn from but I have this forum and a great bunch of SMF friends 
 
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Thanks for the motivation Pops and the advice.  Finished a 15 day cure on a 10lb half ham (butt end). Through it on the smoker this morning after a 12 hour marinade in a rub. Doing the cracklings and rendering lard from the skin tonight over a couple of adult beverages. Here's a shot at about 3 hours in on the smoker.

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Apple wood smoked. Gonna do a bourbon glaze to finish it off.
 
I ran across this earlier and thought it needed to be re-posted because it was just so informative.....Thanks Pops great post
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.....BTW I'm knee deep in some BBB using your recipe....if it comes out half as good as that ham looks I'm going to be in trouble.... I didn’t make enough....
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so, to get this right, you push your brining needle through the hole near the Aitch Bone 4 times, and each time you are injecting the brine directly into the meat, and not around any bone , and each time you inject through the same hole you drive your needle into a different part of the ham, one in each quarter, and simply inject the full 4 ounces into each spot without moving the needle around further, just about midway between the bone and the surface of the ham, injecting your needle 4 times in all?   No, you are also driving the needle into the muscle and slowly pulling it out so you are injecting the length of the muscle, not just one portion of it.  You are injecting the muscle near the femur bone to that the brine shoots into the ham so it is curing from the inside out as well as from the outside in; imagine the muscle being about 4 inches in depth.  To soak the ham with no injection it would take too long for the brine to go into the ham to the bone with that thickness and the meat would spoil internally.  By injecting midway in the muscle you add brine to the inside, so now it it curing from 2" inside to the outside, then from 2" inches outside to inside, or a distance of 1", curing the ham easily and thoroughly.  The curing needle I am using is punctured on all 4 sides in multiple rows so it sprays in a 360° pattern, not just forward, please see http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_45_231&products_id=25, it is the spray needle.

Then you inject 4 ounces of brine through the butt end (literal rear end of the leg) of the ham and to the pelvic knucke, or AITCH bone, and brine "around" the pelvic knuckle, by wiggling the needle around the top and bottom of the bone through the single injection point, all with a single injection, the 5th total injection of the process You are not "wiggling" the needle, you are spray-injectiing into the meat muscles. 

Then in the top sawed-off section where the hock was, you inject your needle one time (the 6th total for the process), and you brine "around" the upper femur knuckle, by simply wiggling the needle on both sides of the bone, up and down an inch or two??

Then lastly you make another single 4 ounce injection (The 7th total injection of the process) into the sirloin tip portion and along the femur bone, and wiggle that around the femur bone on two sides,

Giving us 7 4-ounce injections, for a total of 28 oz. of brine injected into the pork leg

One injection goes through the Hock area into the Upper Femur Area, and another injection goes through the Sirloin Tip Portion and along the Femur Bone, is this one around the Tibia/Fibula/? No, the tibia/fibula is in the hock end leading to the lower leg, not near the sirloin tip, and in the hock area it is at the lower end of the femur bone, not upper

and one more question, if you are using a cut that has no bone, do you still need to inject the middle of the meat with cure?  Depends on the thickness of the meat - over 3" or so it's a wise idea; it certainly doesn't harm it.

thanks for any clarification from anyone to make sure i have the entire injection process correct

Your entire intent is to inject brine into the ham so it cures from the inside-out as well as from the outside-in so there is no spoilage.
 
two more questions:
  • if you have a 20 Pound trimmed Ham Portion of the leg, and you use 2 gallons of water, or if you have to add more than 1 gallon of water just to cover, say, an extra half gallon maybe, do you also have to add more Nitrate? or will the original 1 TBSP of Nitrate suffice?   
Is there a formula for nitrate for ham? such as 1 TBSP per every 10 pounds of Ham, so a 5 Pound ham would only need 1.5 Teaspoons of Nitrate, and a 20 pound ham would need 2 TBSP, with 3 TBSP of Nitrate needed for a 30 Lb Ham??
  • Is the amount of time a ham spends in the brine also determined by weight? such as a 30 day cure for a 20 pound ham, a 15 day cure for a 10 pound ham, a 1-week cure for a 5 pound ham,  37 day cure for a 25 pound ham, and a 40 day cure for a 30 pound ham?
Thanks for clarification
First and foremost, we must use the correct terminology.  We are using Cure #1 with Sodium Nitrite, not Nitrate.

You follow the brine formula.  You add the prescribed amounts per gallon.  You do not increase the proportions; the dilution remains constant whether you are using 1 gallon or 50 gallons.  You can throw the ham in a 100 gallon vat of brine and it will cure at the same rate as in 2 gallons of brine because you are not increasing the concentration.

Wieght is one of many factors, as is strength of concentration.

MAXIMUM strength of concentration is shown on the package label:

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24 lbs. per 100 gallons of brine is 1/100 of 24 lbs, or 1/100 of 384 ounces, or 3.84 ounces.  Maximum strength for nitrite cure is 3.84 oz/gal of brine.  

My recipe calls for 1 tablespoon of cure #1 per gallon.  A heaping tablespoon of cure is approx. 1 oz.  This is almost ¼ the maximum amount of curing agent allowed, so we are accomplishing curing with a much lower concentration of curing agent.  Safety is of the utmost.  

The length of curing time is longer; my dad maintained, and backed up by NYS Meat Inspection with test after test done, that a milder brine in a longer cure time will achieve the same or better results with less toxicity and produce a flavorful product and more tender with no harsh chemical aftertastes as compared to modern "maximum-strength" cures with shorter brining times.  That is why his brining is much lower concentration and still effective.
 
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I cannot positively remember what the ppm was, it was 35 years ago and I didn't have privy to the State's records, they were kept under lock and key (the State Inspector require his own locked office and locking desk; one time the Bigwig Regional Director came and p.o'd dad off so much when he insisted dad get him a coat rack to hang his coat on, dad took a 16 penny nail and drove it right through his coat and hung it on the wall.... lol.... he got a $500 fine for that one but dad said it was worth every penny to see the look on the Regional Director's face when he nailed his coat to the wall!).  I think it was around 80 ppm because I remember Mike (the local state inspector) going over the figures from a recent (35 yrs ago) test and 80 was right where it should have been.

Yes, Cure #1 contains sodium nitrite.  see:  http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=237_12&products_id=56

Cure #2 contains sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate.  see:  http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=237_12&products_id=58

Explanation from one of many sources:  http://curedmeats.blogspot.com/2009/04/critical-ingredient-cure-1-and-2.html

"...[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]and another quick question about the time, when you say "Longer" are you recommending that a 25#'s leg be left 30 days, and is that "10 days longer" than other stronger brines? and would 15 days still be considered "longer" for 10#'s, and would 7 or 8 days be long enough for a small 5# piece?..."[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Y[/color][color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]es, that is about right on the times, it's based on weight and size and strength of brine.  All three weights under maximum brine concentration would be at least ½ - 1/3 the time; stronger cure, shorter cure time, more chemicals and less quality.[/color]
 
sweet, that was great.. thats surprisingly inexpensive.. just have to see about shipping, there's no international rates listed, and i cant tell if they ship outside of america or not.. might be cheaper if i can find it around asia somewhere, or someone doing more international shipping

so, just out of curiosity, would it be possible to make a ham with half of that amount of sodium nitrite, and add 10 or 15 days to the curing time??

thanks for all the great info
As long as you don't go below the minimum.  If you use what I recommend, 1 tbsp / gal., you will have sufficient qty to cure your product and protect yourself from botulism and still be less than what you'd eat in a green tossed salad.  You consume more nitrites in other natural foods than you ever will in smoked meats; 
[h2]Vegetables With Nitrites[/h2]

  • In terms of vegetables, green leafy ones and root vegetables contain high levels of nitrate that are converted to nitrites on ingestion. Vegetables such as beetroot, radish, lettuce and spinach have high levels of nitrate which can convert into nitrites. Lettuce and spinach have especially high levels of nitrate. You will also find nitrates and consequently nitrites in carrots as well. The levels of nitrates depend upon the age of the vegetable and how much of a nitrate based fertilizer was used on it.
    [h2] [/h2]
 
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