Considering buying an Electric smoker

focus · Aug 5, 2016

Great responses all, and some serious Q-porn from Frankly, thanks.

So, am I comparing apples to dump trucks if I'm considering both Masterbuilt and Traeger? As I mentioned, I may be able to get SWMBO to authorize additional funds if I the $600-700 is really worth that much more.

PS, Sorry to greenersport for hijacking your thread, but I figure my questions are just what you might like to know, too.

Focus

n4ynu · Aug 5, 2016

Focus said:
So I started looking at Masterbuilts and Bradleys as cost effective options. Based largely on N4YU's post above, I'd just about settled on a Masterbuilt 30 with cold smoke attachment + the AMNPS gadget. Seemed like that would be the best and most cost effective option for me. Then my buddy starts talking to me about his Traeger Lil Tex Elite...

And suddenly I'm smitten, but at nearly twice my desired price point. #0.1, He tells me it's electric, but only in as much as the heat source for the pellets is electric. Supposedly, they ignite/smolder and do all of the cooking themselves. The only power it draws is for the auger that feeds the pellets and the heating element that occasionally kicks in andrestarts the pellets, so less power than a 1200W element and smoke for "added flavor vs real wood as the cooking fuel. This sounds good, right?

#2 From what I understand, you cannot get a smoke ring with the Masterbuilt. But he claims he can get a smoke ring every time.

#3 It can get hot enough to sear steaks and cook pizza; the MES can only get to 240F or so. Being a Massachusetts resident, if I could have a smoker AND a outside oven, that would be huge (no a/c during the summer makes cooking inside nearly impossible.)

#4 I have had his Q and it has been spot on every time. Turkey and pork butt in particular, but i need few other samples to know it's the shit.

More research turned up Green mountain, Louisiana something or other , etc. I dont have unlimited resources but SWMBO might authorize a credit raise if its really worth it.

At any rate, I feel like I'm back to the drawing board. But am i comparing apples to dumptrucks if I'm talking Masterbuilt and Traeger/Green mtn/ etc.

Thoughts?

Focus,
I will be using the AMNPS Pellet smoker for smoke, so do not need the element to make the chips smoke, and it would seem that the element would only produce limited smoke from the chips unless high temp cooking, so went with the AMNPS which should provide more than enough smoke for up to 11 hours, so no opening the door and loosing temps.................

Not sure why someone would say "no smoke ring" unless they were experiencing the very issues that the AMNPS Pellet Smoker solves for cold smoking and low temp cooking.................

The MES 30 Sportsman Elite has a 1500W Element and is designed for max 400 degrees

If you use the AMNPS Pellet smoker to solve the low temp smoke issues, or just use it all the time would make sense and then the smoke issues are gone along with not having to open the door, then at that point it is none the less no different than any other smoke cabinet, chamber or room, and if you use the Pellet Smoker, then you temps will be low without even running the element, plenty of smoke, it will make eats just like any other, and yes this is why I went with the Analog, hi wattage and rated @ 400 degrees, you can do anything with it

*And the extra wattage will ensure stable heat when cold as well, but going to have mine in the Barn, so it will not be subjected to wind chill or air blowing in any holes.

Hope that helps, the one I am speaking of is in my comments, any way you go you will be ok man, and if you take care of the Master Built, keep it dry and do not clean it with oven cleaner or acidic cleaners then it will last forever, leave it out in the moisture and rain, it will not last so long as it is not like the other ones you spoke of, built like a tank, but with reasonable care, it will last as long as you want to cook hehehe

jack l · Aug 5, 2016

Jeffinn said:
The Smokin-It 3D is a really great smoker. All stainless steel and backed by a 3 year warranty (1 year on the Auber controller and 3 years on everything else). The owner really stands behind his products.
I purchased the 3D a few months ago and absolutely love it!

Jefinn, I am like many who have been smoking with charcoal and wood for years (decades). If I were to buy an electric smoker it would be the 3D but I am just not sure I want to go that route as well. I figured I could smoke salmon, turkeys and a brisket with it but just not convinced I am going to get the same flavor from my old iron cast smoker.

old sarge · Aug 5, 2016

daRicksta said:
Well! This is news to me. You forsook your Cookshack Amerique for a Smokin-It? What happened to motivate you to make the change? But I tell you, if I had it in my budget and wanted to stick with electric smokers I'd be looking at a Cookshack or a Smokin-It. Some people like the Smokin-Tex, which looks very similar to a SI smoker. But from what I've read SI has the better line of smokers and their prices are better as well. AI know that Cookshack is made in the USA whereas SI is made in China. That's the primary reason why CS smokers are higher-priced than SI because the both seem to be about the same in quality. SI has the better warranty: parts are covered for 3 years instead of two.

It is a long story. Nothing wrong with the Cookshack. But I had been bragging up the SI line ever since I got one for my brother and witnessed the quality and reliability. Its was time I had my own (street creds). So the CS went over to my son's place (I have visiting and use rights which I exercise regularly) and I acquired a 3D. No regrets. I am calling the quality of material and build comparison between the two dead even, with the CS having a slight edge on capacity by weight which I consider subjective. As for amenities, the SI does have larger wheels, a longer cord and the racks are stainless. It is a lot of smoker for the money. And then there is the warranty. To be perfectly honest, you cannot go wrong with a unit from SI, or CS. It is a matter of budget.

focus · Aug 6, 2016

N4YNU said:
The MES 30 Sportsman Elite has a 1500W Element and is designed for max 400 degrees

I just found the MES 30 Sportsman Elite.on the Dick's site: http://m.dickssportinggoods.com/pro...c055aQ3tcj0UQB2p2DceeGeQ4AFkV12Ah5BoCC8Hw_wcB

It says only 800W. Where did you get the 1500W info from? Am i looking at the right MES 30 SE

n4ynu · Aug 6, 2016

greenersport said:
If I were to buy an Electric smoker should I get? I see Charbroil has some new models? Masterbuilt? I think the Bluetooth and temp monitoring would be nice. Looking for advice.

Thanks!

Master Built is nice, check out my profile for some info on the Analog Version, if you like the electronics then that is fine, but I went Analog and the MES 30 Sportsman Elite, I have a few MODs up and more coming, not that I am the first one, everyone is posting MOD's here, that is what makes it so cool here, the people here like to help and they do not mind taking time to share MODS and Recipe's and Tips and Tricks, Best Forum on the Web !!!!!

The reason I went with the Analog is you can get a nice Dual Probe Remote In Oven Temp Probe that will do all the electronics on the units will do, and some do more, and they come Wireless, RF and Bluetooth, so my take was, why spend money on the electronics when the Probe does all that, and you can get one like that for right at or just under 50 bucks !!!

So if you like electronics then go electronic, if you want to save and do the same job with less overhead if the control panel fails then go Analog and get a Probe.

Other than that there are many Brands, if you got money to burn, it is like boating, you can spend all kinds of money hehehe, what I think it really boils down to is the budget or if you are like me, knowing I can replace both the Element and the Temp Controller for under 50 bucks instead of a "Digital Controller for well over 100 bucks, I like to have spares so if I have a failure I can replace and get back cooking, smoking or dehydrating.

Lots of choices, brands have some differences but in the end, same great eats, and they are basically core wise no different, just a different look, diff configuration and or diff fuel, the MES 30 also has a 1500W Element and is rated for Cooking Temps of 400 degrees.

And if you are planning on making some Jerky, it is nice because the AMNPS Pellet Smoker is just enough heat to drive the temp to about 120-130 depending on outdoor temp without even using the electric element, I considered that pretty cool, but again, and Brand could do this, just your preference.

Master Built has Awesome Customer Support as I have been wearing them out LOL on MOD parts and they are really nice, they sent me my Side Supports for my Rack MOD Free, of course they were shipping me some Racks for the MOD but that was very nice, and they are nice, they do not rush you or treat you like a bother, I was very impressed.

***** Important Note - unless you are really impatient or maybe excited hehehe, order your extra racks or anything you need like spare controller or elements, get them from Master Built, you will save pretty much even with shipping, example is if you get the "Accessory Rack Kit" at a retailer, it is $20, yet Master Built sells singles for $7.95, and if you order more than a few they might knock the price down on the per rack price, they did for me, I was like WoW !

Anyway, take your time, look at the jungle of models and brands and get what you want, if you go to my profile I have a lot of reading you could do on the MES 30, and with the rack MOD it has 8 racks :), make sure you figure in the amount of cooking you want to do, if you have 50-100 peeps for parties, you may want something larger that the MES 30, or any 30 model size, the 40's are larger but the rack area not really that much different, thats why I went with the 30 and did the MOD.

It is a cool little unit and easy to service if there is a failure, and most of all, cheap to replace, I have done service all my life, so I like units that are easy to service, if the element dies, I can replace in less than 5 mins with one tool, and the food can still be in there lol, as for the temp controller, it is like a electric skillet control, just plugs in, so no wiring to go bad, or wire connections, it is really simple and then with the dual in oven probe you can walk away and watch your time, meat temps, internal smoker cabinet temps, hi and low temps, it does everything but cuddle with ya at night.

n4ynu · Aug 6, 2016

Focus said:
N4YNU said:

The MES 30 Sportsman Elite has a 1500W Element and is designed for max 400 degrees

Click to expand...

I just found the MES 30 Sportsman Elite.on the Dick's site: http://m.dickssportinggoods.com/pro...c055aQ3tcj0UQB2p2DceeGeQ4AFkV12Ah5BoCC8Hw_wcB

It says only 800W. Where did you get the 1500W info from? Am i looking at the right MES 30 SE

Focus,

The Link you have there is for the MES 30 Sportsman Elite Digital Electric, you want to look at the MES 30 Sportsman Elite Analog Electric, that is why the Wattage is Lower, there will be no digital controller, dual probe in oven temp probe will do all that the digital version does, that is why I passed, why not save the money and let the probe do it ..............

Sorry so long, been a long day, out all day, outside that is, wife had a yard sale, I seasoned my smoker and made some wicked trial chicken the likes of I have never had.............more on that adventure tomorrow, I have to go to bed but will be in here in the morning posting my Seasoning, Testing and Trail Chicken Run...............these chicken breast were ......................oh my .................................

Look in my comments at the bottom, all my equipment is there with links, at least as much as I could get in there, we need more text allotment, we have lots of toys LOL

Here is the link, and I am using the AMNPS Pellet burner, the little rectangular one, it works flawless, had it burning all day, but I digress and will cover that tomorrow hehehe

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Masterbuilt-Sportsman-Elite-Black-Analog-Smoker/1627128.uts

I did a RACK MOD on this Unit, 8 racks, and some other simple ones, have a couple more to come this week, check out the "Albums I have in my Profile, here is the link for the RACK MOD if you want to see it

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/g/a/299516/mes-30-rack-and-amnps-mod/

*** Just beware, when you go to Cabela's to get this, you may want to open the box, the picture on the box (unless they have changed it and I doubt the change would be rotated out yet) will be wrong, it will show the 4 racks evenly spaced to the top, but what is in the box will be this
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/g/i/483260/oem-out-of-the-box-w-3-racks/sort/display_order/ , as you can see it is 3 racks with 2 slots for the "Rack Accessory Kit" so you can upgrade to five, with the MOD I did it allows 8 evenly spaced to the Top of the Smoke Box.

I got one of the assistants in there and opened to make sure, they were also surprised it was not the same as the pic.

Just make sure it says it comes with 3 racks and is Expandable to 5, that is the key, and if I were you, I would open the box and check.

Just wanted to be sure the one on the box was not in there hehehe, I wanted the upgradeable one, as I had already reversed engineered everything I needed for the MOD before I bought it

If you want to do the MODS for the 8 racks make sure that is it, I have talked to Master Built about this and they are supposed to be addressing it,

sigmo · Aug 7, 2016

forluvofsmoke said:
Not a watt-burner here, I just never wanted to go that route. I've read that Masterbuilt has great customer service...haven't read much about the rest you mentioned.

While the units with more convenience and features may be appealing, they are more complicated...complicated translates to higher potential for problems down the road when compared to just a simple rig with temp controller.

In my experience, simple is usually more reliable, even if it comes with a bit steeper learning curve to master the rig.

In most cases, don't trust the factory thermometers as they tend to have less than acceptable range of accuracy. Verify temps before trusting them with a prized cut of meat. Even just a $4 pocket thermometer to insert into the smoke chamber is better than nothing for temp, and you can do a boil-check with them to verify their accuracy.

These will help explain the what and why to determine if your smoke chamber therms are good to go:

Boiling Point / Atmospheric Pressure / Altitude

Water Altitude Boiling Point Calculator

Eric

Hello, all.

I just thought I'd point something out that is not obvious to many people, but is very important when attempting to do a “boiling point of water” calibration or test of a thermometer.

That is, that the barometric pressure reported by weather websites, news, and weather reports, etc. is NOT the actual barometric pressure!

Instead, what is reported for the purposes of weather prediction is barometric pressure “corrected to sea level” or “reduced to sea level”.

The main reason for this is that these barometer readings are used to predict air movement (wind) speeds and directions, and thus movement of fronts, storms, etc. And for this to work out, you need to know what the barometric pressure would be, at any given location, IF YOU DRILLED A HOLE in the ground down to sea level, and lowered a pressure sensor to the bottom of that hole!

So when you tune into the radio, TV, or look on-line at a weather website or news site, the barometric pressure you see reported is this “corrected to sea level” pressure, NOT the actual barometric pressure at your location.

What you need is what they call the “station pressure”. Sometimes you can get this from websites or weather stations who provide this information for aviation purposes. People flying in or out of an airport need to know the actual barometric pressure, temperature, and humidity so they will know the air density, and thus the amount of “lift” they can expect.

For laboratories or people calibrating thermometers, etc., we also need to know this “station pressure”. And it's harder to find than most people realize!

So when you use one of these on-line calculators or a chart, always keep this in mind!

I live at around 5300 feet above sea level. Water boils at around 102-103°F depending on the barometric pressure at the time. Yet if I look at any local weather report, I'll see that they want us to think that the barometric pressure is around 30” of mercury. In fact, it's always closer to 24.6” of mercury.

So use the charts that give pressure versus elevation. Or use the calculators that have you enter your elevation. And always do a sanity check. You should know approximately the range of possible “real” barometric pressures at your location. If you are at a high elevation, and someone tells you that the barometric pressure is something like 29 or 30 inches of mercury, you KNOW they're giving you the “corrected to sea level” number and not the real number.

So ask for or find a source for your local “station pressure” when using a boiling point calculator.

Also: If you want a good text describing how to properly prepare and use a water ice-point reference, search for and download NIST Special Publication 819 “A Procedure for the Effective Recalibration of Liquid-in-Glass Thermometers.” PDFs are available for download.

This is an excellent publication.

forluvofsmoke · Aug 8, 2016

Sigmo said:
forluvofsmoke said:

Not a watt-burner here, I just never wanted to go that route. I've read that Masterbuilt has great customer service...haven't read much about the rest you mentioned.

While the units with more convenience and features may be appealing, they are more complicated...complicated translates to higher potential for problems down the road when compared to just a simple rig with temp controller.

In my experience, simple is usually more reliable, even if it comes with a bit steeper learning curve to master the rig.

In most cases, don't trust the factory thermometers as they tend to have less than acceptable range of accuracy. Verify temps before trusting them with a prized cut of meat. Even just a $4 pocket thermometer to insert into the smoke chamber is better than nothing for temp, and you can do a boil-check with them to verify their accuracy.

These will help explain the what and why to determine if your smoke chamber therms are good to go:

Boiling Point / Atmospheric Pressure / Altitude

Water Altitude Boiling Point Calculator

Eric

Click to expand...

Hello, all.

I just thought I'd point something out that is not obvious to many people, but is very important when attempting to do a “boiling point of water” calibration or test of a thermometer.

That is, that the barometric pressure reported by weather websites, news, and weather reports, etc. is NOT the actual barometric pressure!

Instead, what is reported for the purposes of weather prediction is barometric pressure “corrected to sea level” or “reduced to sea level”.

The main reason for this is that these barometer readings are used to predict air movement (wind) speeds and directions, and thus movement of fronts, storms, etc. And for this to work out, you need to know what the barometric pressure would be, at any given location, IF YOU DRILLED A HOLE in the ground down to sea level, and lowered a pressure sensor to the bottom of that hole!

So when you tune into the radio, TV, or look on-line at a weather website or news site, the barometric pressure you see reported is this “corrected to sea level” pressure, NOT the actual barometric pressure at your location.

What you need is what they call the “station pressure”. Sometimes you can get this from websites or weather stations who provide this information for aviation purposes. People flying in or out of an airport need to know the actual barometric pressure, temperature, and humidity so they will know the air density, and thus the amount of “lift” they can expect.

For laboratories or people calibrating thermometers, etc., we also need to know this “station pressure”. And it's harder to find than most people realize!

So when you use one of these on-line calculators or a chart, always keep this in mind!

I live at around 5300 feet above sea level. Water boils at around 102-103°F depending on the barometric pressure at the time. Yet if I look at any local weather report, I'll see that they want us to think that the barometric pressure is around 30” of mercury. In fact, it's always closer to 24.6” of mercury.

So use the charts that give pressure versus elevation. Or use the calculators that have you enter your elevation. And always do a sanity check. You should know approximately the range of possible “real” barometric pressures at your location. If you are at a high elevation, and someone tells you that the barometric pressure is something like 29 or 30 inches of mercury, you KNOW they're giving you the “corrected to sea level” number and not the real number.

So ask for or find a source for your local “station pressure” when using a boiling point calculator.

Also: If you want a good text describing how to properly prepare and use a water ice-point reference, search for and download NIST Special Publication 819 “A Procedure for the Effective Recalibration of Liquid-in-Glass Thermometers.” PDFs are available for download.

This is an excellent publication.

Yes, I agree 100%. I have used a analog altimeter to aid with land-navigation in conjunction with topographic maps. The altimeter accuracy was a constantly changing variable due to weather related barometric changes. It would get frustrating to see the altimeter reading change by 1,000 ft or more overnight due to low or high pressure weather systems. Obviously, altimeters have limited use when trying to find yourself on a map using topography as a reference...I learned to triangulate with topography features because the altimeter was painfully inaccurate...then along came GPS...end of story.

For the purpose of thermometer calibration, yes, the elevation/boiling-point charts are about the best tool we have available. It's basically a guestimation, and will get you close enough for most cooking situations, short of Sous-Vide or other applications where extreme accuracy is desired. Even if you calibrated @ 2,000ft and are now cooking @ 6,000ft your thermometers will only be off a few degrees...that's not enough to really be concerned when using basic cooking processes.

On the other hand, if you were slowly cooking food just up to the minimum safe internal temperature per US Food Code, and found out that your food thermometer was reading higher than actual temperature by, say 5-6*F, well, now, that's a game-changer. Why would this matter? Because there is little to no margin for error when cooking to the minimum standards as set in the publication which guides the professionals...things change considerably when cooking food that is intended to be served to the public.

The main reason we calibrate our food and cook chamber thermometers is to have reasonable assurance that we are cooking at a given temperature to a given finished internal temperature of the food. Some folks don't use thermometers at all...all I can say is that they're either very brave or they know their cooker and food very well and are far better at the entire process through the use of their senses than I'll probably ever be. Sure, you can cook without a thermometer...I do that all the time with charcoal grills...you feel the level of heat on your hand based on the height of your hand above the cooking grate...simple and effective, for those who practice it. However, this is not a safety-critical practice due to the nature of the process...hot & fast cooking. Many old-school pit-masters use their senses to determine if their food is going to be cooked to their standards....it works for them because they practice it...every time they cook.

So, why do those of us less experienced with our cookers use and calibrate/verify our thermometers? We haven't honed the skills necessary to cook without thermometers, or, our cooker by design, does not allow the use of enough of the senses and skills necessary to determine proper cooking. We calibrate/verify for assurance that our food will be safe to consume, and, for timing when we expect the food to reach our desired level of cooking (still knowing that it's done when it's done). USDA, NCHFP and other organizations recommend minimum standards for safely preparing foods, and within these standards are built-in margins for error in safety, taking into consideration that, at any given time, a home cook will not have 100% accurate measurements in temperature.

I don't do the water-boil check as often as I used to...at one point in time I was anal about it...until I realized something needs to happen to change the accuracy, and to simply watch for the signs of possible trouble...then check it out. I always tend to check them whenever I have reason to suspect their accuracy may be at fault, and every new thermometer that I use gets verified. Obviously a dropped thermometer needs attention, and cookers that have been transported with thermometers installed need attention. Vibration and shocks are my biggest concern. Electronic thermometers can have issues even if the display shows a reading. In my experience, there is no such thing as a fool-proof thermometer. Just last month I had a digital thermometer head unit fail...I suspected it was possibly due to high humidity in the room...the display was showing partial characters and became unreadable...fresh batteries and a reset changed nothing...this head unit is still dead to this day, so it could have just been it's time to die...and so it goes.

Smoke on...

Eric

daricksta · Aug 8, 2016

Frankly said:
I just ran it on the higher end of the smoking scale (275F) with few modest sized hand fulls of mesquite/apple chips and had a decent looking ring - at least in some areas but possibly not all throughout.

Myron Mixon, who's taken over the BBQ Pitmasters TV show and is a top BBQ champion in his own right, prefers to smoke at 275°F. With the MES, I don't like to "redline" it at that temp because I think it could wear out the heating element more quickly, but I have nothing to back up that opinion. Based on my research, you'll never get a real smoke ring using wood chips, even at 275F. Charcoal briquettes or lump charcoal work better than wood chips/pellets because they release carbon monoxide along with nitric oxide that interaction with the myoglobin in meat to produce a smoke ring. Now, you can produce a smoke ring burning wood chunks or even logs in a something like a Weber Smokey Mountain or a ceramic smoker or one of those offset smoker rigs. Not sure if it can be done in one of those expensive cabinet-style electric smokers than burn wood chunks or not, though.

I sometimes grill pork ribs in my Weber charcoal kettle grill over indirect heat, a few times with wood chips but lately with a wood pellet tube smoker. I've realized I've always forgotten to check for a smoke ring or at least didn't notice one. I try to keep the heat temp underneath the ribs to around 225-235° so perhaps that's why I never noticed a smoke ring because there wasn't any.

forluvofsmoke · Aug 8, 2016

daRicksta said:
Frankly said:

I just ran it on the higher end of the smoking scale (275F) with few modest sized hand fulls of mesquite/apple chips and had a decent looking ring - at least in some areas but possibly not all throughout.

Click to expand...

Myron Mixon, who's taken over the BBQ Pitmasters TV show and is a top BBQ champion in his own right, prefers to smoke at 275°F. With the MES, I don't like to "redline" it at that temp because I think it could wear out the heating element more quickly, but I have nothing to back up that opinion. Based on my research, you'll never get a real smoke ring using wood chips, even at 275F. Charcoal briquettes or lump charcoal work better than wood chips/pellets because they release carbon monoxide along with nitric oxide that interaction with the myoglobin in meat to produce a smoke ring. Now, you can produce a smoke ring burning wood chunks or even logs in a something like a Weber Smokey Mountain or a ceramic smoker or one of those offset smoker rigs. Not sure if it can be done in one of those expensive cabinet-style electric smokers than burn wood chunks or not, though.

I sometimes grill pork ribs in my Weber charcoal kettle grill over indirect heat, a few times with wood chips but lately with a wood pellet tube smoker. I've realized I've always forgotten to check for a smoke ring or at least didn't notice one. I try to keep the heat temp underneath the ribs to around 225-235° so perhaps that's why I never noticed a smoke ring because there wasn't any.

Anyone gets a smoke ring in an electric rig may have had a fluke...you need to produce most, if not all, of your heat for cooking with propane, wood, charcoal or lump...gotta be burning something. It would take a boat-load of smoke wood smoldering away to create enough nitric oxide. As I recall, smoking wood doesn't burn hot enough to create nitric oxide...something like 600*F on the surface, where it contacts the combustion air. It takes enough to heat the smoker and get a good saturation of the smoke chamber gases...imagine that for a moment...what a cloud of smoke that would produce, huh? You gotta burn a lot of material to produce enough nitric oxide for long enough to achieve a decent smoke ring. I have noticed variations in my smoke ring due to ambient temps...warmer weather seems to produce less smoke ring, possibly due to using less fuel to heat the smoke chamber...this may be even more noticeable if the rig is sitting in direct sun with no wind.

A Weber kettle will produce a smoke ring. I got some nice pink inside my BB ribs yesterday on my OTG 26 burning Embers Briquettes and one medium chunk each of apple and cherry, then a handful of smaller chunks of hickory. Indirect heat with one fire in the back, lid venting to the front, ribs laying mid-grate...no fuss, no issues, even cooking throughout, and some great ribs for what little effort this smoke took.

Look for my Wild Hawg Rub thread...I'd post a link but don't want to jack this thread or get too far off topic...

2.5hrs @ 225-235* grate temps:

10 2.5hrs.JPG

forluvofsmoke
Aug 8, 2016

Finished...5.75hrs total...did a 4-1.25-0.5:

25 sliced.JPG

forluvofsmoke
Aug 8, 2016

Smoke ring doesn't mean anything, other than you cooked low & slow with heat from a flame or a smoldering fuel. It doesn't change flavor, texture, nothing...except for the look when you get inside. Some of us covet the smoke ring, for what it truly means...others may not care one way or the other. When I don't get a smoke ring, or it's shallow/faint, I usually changed my method or set-up of the cooker, and that is what effected the smoke ring. I've only smoked in propane or charcoal rigs...never electric, so I rarely don't produce smoke ring with Bbq meats when cooking low & slow.

Eric

daricksta · Aug 8, 2016

forluvofsmoke said:
Anyone gets a smoke ring in an electric rig may have had a fluke...you need to produce most, if not all, of your heat for cooking with propane, wood, charcoal or lump...gotta be burning something. It would take a boat-load of smoke wood smoldering away to create enough nitric oxide. As I recall, smoking wood doesn't burn hot enough to create nitric oxide...something like 600*F on the surface, where it contacts the combustion air. It takes enough to heat the smoker and get a good saturation of the smoke chamber gases...imagine that for a moment...what a cloud of smoke that would produce, huh? You gotta burn a lot of material to produce enough nitric oxide for long enough to achieve a decent smoke ring. I have noticed variations in my smoke ring due to ambient temps...warmer weather seems to produce less smoke ring, possibly due to using less fuel to heat the smoke chamber...this may be even more noticeable if the rig is sitting in direct sun with no wind.

A Weber kettle will produce a smoke ring. I got some nice pink inside my BB ribs yesterday on my OTG 26 burning Embers Briquettes and one medium chunk each of apple and cherry, then a handful of smaller chunks of hickory. Indirect heat with one fire in the back, lid venting to the front, ribs laying mid-grate...no fuss, no issues, even cooking throughout, and some great ribs for what little effort this smoke took.

Look for my Wild Hawg Rub thread...I'd post a link but don't want to jack this thread or get too far off topic...

2.5hrs @ 225-235* grate temps:

10 2.5hrs.JPG

forluvofsmoke

Aug 8, 2016

Finished...5.75hrs total...did a 4-1.25-0.5:

25 sliced.JPG

forluvofsmoke

Aug 8, 2016

Smoke ring doesn't mean anything, other than you cooked low & slow with heat from a flame or a smoldering fuel. It doesn't change flavor, texture, nothing...except for the look when you get inside. Some of us covet the smoke ring, for what it truly means...others may not care one way or the other. When I don't get a smoke ring, or it's shallow/faint, I usually changed my method or set-up of the cooker, and that is what effected the smoke ring. I've only smoked in propane or charcoal rigs...never electric, so I rarely don't produce smoke ring with Bbq meats when cooking low & slow.

Eric

Look for my Wild Hawg Rub thread...I'd post a link but don't want to jack this thread or get too far off topic... You know, the way I figure it, what the hell? I've been involved in threads that mutated magnificently into topics of far-ranging oddities and other stuff. But I'm looking at your photos and you can indeed get a smoke ring from a Weber cooking at low, indirect heat. But I agree with you, smoke rings are cosmetic so I've never tried to attempt one. I just would've gotten a kick from generating one in grilled ribs so I could say "So that's what they look like in person!" But I brought this up because there are a few people on SMF devoted to generating smoke rings in a MES or something so they can post about their achievement here. I just want my Q--made in a grill or in my smoker--to taste really, really good.

I made a slow-cooked tri-tip roast in my Weber kettle grill that called for hickory wood chunks. I almost bought some. But seeing as how I have hickory wood pellets and a tube smoker I decided those would provide me with the same wood smoke flavor, and I was right.

Eric, are you a grilling purist like I am? To me, real grilling can only be done over charcoal. My Weber 22.5 inch One Touch Silver is my backyard buddy. We've been together a long time and made a lot of great stuff together. Yeah, this could be topic hijacking, but do you keep that vent on your Weber lid wide open or half closed when you're grilling low and slow? And while I'm at it, I buy the Kingsford Professional Briquets when Costco has them on sale in the double pack. Otherwise my preference is Stubb's Bar-B-Q Charcoal Briquettes. I'm not familiar with the Embers brand.

n4ynu · Aug 8, 2016

I will surely give it a try when I do a roast, I have seen that ring many times on the char grill using the side burner and sticks for smoke, my test with the electric, I lit both ends of the AMNPS and got some pretty dense smoke and with 1500W I can do 400 degrees, so I think I should be able to pull it off on one of those high heat roast cooks hehehe

Time will tell, but I am like you, do not care about the rings, it is all about flavor, juiciness and tenderness, if I have all those...................I am successful

I got the electric and AMNPS for low temp smoke and for low maintenance long smokes that I can set and forget instead of living out on the wood platform watching and maintaining temps, coal, chips etc, I will surely enjoy it, yes I will still use the Char Grill but not as much, I can sit and socialize and still have the killer flavs without all the sweat and bo lol, the chicken breasts I just did were better than any I have made on the Char Grill and I slow cooked and smoked them painting every time I turned them, this little electric smoke box is pretty cool and surprised me.

* I did just start using the wet brine so the breasts in the electric box with the AMNPS ( Hickory this time ) did have a advantage, cannot believe I have been missing out on brining so many years, glad I finally got on board !

daricksta · Aug 8, 2016

N4YNU said:
I will surely give it a try when I do a roast, I have seen that ring many times on the char grill using the side burner and sticks for smoke, my test with the electric, I lit both ends of the AMNPS and got some pretty dense smoke and with 1500W I can do 400 degrees, so I think I should be able to pull it off on one of those high heat roast cooks hehehe

Time will tell, but I am like you, do not care about the rings, it is all about flavor, juiciness and tenderness, if I have all those...................I am successful

I got the electric and AMNPS for low temp smoke and for low maintenance long smokes that I can set and forget instead of living out on the wood platform watching and maintaining temps, coal, chips etc, I will surely enjoy it, yes I will still use the Char Grill but not as much, I can sit and socialize and still have the killer flavs without all the sweat and bo lol, the chicken breasts I just did were better than any I have made on the Char Grill and I slow cooked and smoked them painting every time I turned them, this little electric smoke box is pretty cool and surprised me.

* I did just start using the wet brine so the breasts in the electric box with the AMNPS ( Hickory this time ) did have a advantage, cannot believe I have been missing out on brining so many years, glad I finally got on board !

Are those skinless, boneless chix breasts or are the skins and bones still intact? Last year I smoked a boneless turkey breast (skin on) in my MES 30. I didn't care about getting crispy skin but....the flavor...as long as I want to remain happily married I will say my wife makes the best roast turkey in our oven. But, this smoked turkey breast--smoked over hickory pellets--was superb. And it was the first time I'd smoked a turkey in an electric smoker. I got a 12 pound whole turkey in the freezer now, just waitin' till I'm ready to do it again.

daricksta · Aug 8, 2016

old sarge said:
It is a long story. Nothing wrong with the Cookshack. But I had been bragging up the SI line ever since I got one for my brother and witnessed the quality and reliability. Its was time I had my own (street creds). So the CS went over to my son's place (I have visiting and use rights which I exercise regularly) and I acquired a 3D. No regrets. I am calling the quality of material and build comparison between the two dead even, with the CS having a slight edge on capacity by weight which I consider subjective. As for amenities, the SI does have larger wheels, a longer cord and the racks are stainless. It is a lot of smoker for the money. And then there is the warranty. To be perfectly honest, you cannot go wrong with a unit from SI, or CS. It is a matter of budget.

Thanks for this, Old Sarge. Yeah, my quick research between the two smoker brands yielded the same results you posted here. If could afford it one of those would be my next smoker. Meanwhile, in real life, I gotta keep my MES 30 working as long as it's able.

n4ynu · Aug 8, 2016

daRicksta said:
N4YNU said:

I will surely give it a try when I do a roast, I have seen that ring many times on the char grill using the side burner and sticks for smoke, my test with the electric, I lit both ends of the AMNPS and got some pretty dense smoke and with 1500W I can do 400 degrees, so I think I should be able to pull it off on one of those high heat roast cooks hehehe

Time will tell, but I am like you, do not care about the rings, it is all about flavor, juiciness and tenderness, if I have all those...................I am successful

I got the electric and AMNPS for low temp smoke and for low maintenance long smokes that I can set and forget instead of living out on the wood platform watching and maintaining temps, coal, chips etc, I will surely enjoy it, yes I will still use the Char Grill but not as much, I can sit and socialize and still have the killer flavs without all the sweat and bo lol, the chicken breasts I just did were better than any I have made on the Char Grill and I slow cooked and smoked them painting every time I turned them, this little electric smoke box is pretty cool and surprised me.

* I did just start using the wet brine so the breasts in the electric box with the AMNPS ( Hickory this time ) did have a advantage, cannot believe I have been missing out on brining so many years, glad I finally got on board !

Click to expand...

Are those skinless, boneless chix breasts or are the skins and bones still intact? Last year I smoked a boneless turkey breast (skin on) in my MES 30. I didn't care about getting crispy skin but....the flavor...as long as I want to remain happily married I will say my wife makes the best roast turkey in our oven. But, this smoked turkey breast--smoked over hickory pellets--was superb. And it was the first time I'd smoked a turkey in an electric smoker. I got a 12 pound whole turkey in the freezer now, just waitin' till I'm ready to do it again

Rick,

They were split breast, very well endowed chicken, but they did not have much skin, in light of that, it just made the outcome more amazing, I did not baste or paint them either, 3 1/2 hr brine and right to the smoker and with little skin they were juicy as they could be and smoke flavor right to the bone, cannot wait to do some leg quarters with the skin, I might need my stomach pumped, this stuff was so blasted tasty you just wanted more and more, it was so good my neighbor is buying the same smoker and getting me to help with MODS and my other neighbor is buying packs of quarters and having me cook them for her and then giving me half of them, I mean, I know you hear it all the time, but these boys were wicked, ready to do the Jerky, then I am going to do some Bacon and of coarse hams, roast and turkey, I have done all that on the char grill but with this smoker it is just amazing, I was not sure the pellets would produce the flavor I wanted, was not expecting the electric with the AMNPS to exceed the flavor of the grill, I have slow cooked and smoked quarters on the Char Grill before many many times ( for over 6 hours ), and people rave about them, but these were better, period.

forluvofsmoke · Aug 8, 2016

daRicksta said:
Look for my Wild Hawg Rub thread...I'd post a link but don't want to jack this thread or get too far off topic... You know, the way I figure it, what the hell? I've been involved in threads that mutated magnificently into topics of far-ranging oddities and other stuff. But I'm looking at your photos and you can indeed get a smoke ring from a Weber cooking at low, indirect heat. But I agree with you, smoke rings are cosmetic so I've never tried to attempt one. I just would've gotten a kick from generating one in grilled ribs so I could say "So that's what they look like in person!" But I brought this up because there are a few people on SMF devoted to generating smoke rings in a MES or something so they can post about their achievement here. I just want my Q--made in a grill or in my smoker--to taste really, really good.

I made a slow-cooked tri-tip roast in my Weber kettle grill that called for hickory wood chunks. I almost bought some. But seeing as how I have hickory wood pellets and a tube smoker I decided those would provide me with the same wood smoke flavor, and I was right.

Eric, are you a grilling purist like I am? To me, real grilling can only be done over charcoal. My Weber 22.5 inch One Touch Silver is my backyard buddy. We've been together a long time and made a lot of great stuff together. Yeah, this could be topic hijacking, but do you keep that vent on your Weber lid wide open or half closed when you're grilling low and slow? And while I'm at it, I buy the Kingsford Professional Briquets when Costco has them on sale in the double pack. Otherwise my preference is Stubb's Bar-B-Q Charcoal Briquettes. I'm not familiar with the Embers brand.

OK, you're right...I've been in the middle of a lot threads that turned into a lot of great reads on entirely different subjects than intended, myself. So, a couple links are coming here. The frustrating part is trying to remember where you read it (or wrote it), and then, find it again for future reference.

Yeah, I guess I would say I evolved into more of a purist...not full-blown hard-core...I use what will get the job done given the circumstances, although recently have not cooked with anything but solid fuel...been about 1.5 years without food over a propane flame...and I feel better about my cooking as a result...just makes me

...maybe I was just a purist a heart and needed something to get things moving in the right direction. Well, right direction for me, at least. My cooking volumes are reduced from several years ago, and cooking style, methods and finished products have also evolved to some extent. I rarely foil meats...gotta get a killer bark on pork shoulder for sure...wet-to-dry smoke chamber method (with no foiling) was not just a fluke...I developed that method due of a perceived necessity. That's just one example of how my cooking has changed...to say I'm a purist, well, maybe so...if I had hardwoods to cook over as a heat source? Oh, crap, I'd really be a happy smoker...tend a wood fire for hours on end? Count me in...do all nighters every smoke I cranked up? No, that's pushing things too far...gotta mix it up and do it all, right?

I used propane grills and one vertical smoker (GOSM 3405GW) for quite a few years, converted the GOSM to charcoal for awhile, then got a horizontal pit (SnP-40"), converted it to propane when my fuel consumption went through the roof from a custom tuning plate mod, then quit using it when I got the Smoke Vault 24. I could do just about...OK, scratch that...I could smoke anything I wanted to in it. Somewhere in there, maybe 7-8 years or so ago, I started grilling with wally-world special charcoal kettles...like the even cooking temperatures, and flavor. I chose a Weber OTG 18 kettle for a 10-year service award at work...oh, my, all hell broke loose after that. Great temp control, no matter what I was doing on it. I was hooked, I think for life, and just didn't know it yet. Propane just didn't give me quite the same level of satisfaction at the end of the day...flavor wasn't the same, either. Propane grills, IMHO, suck for controlling grate temps and providing even cooking heat across the grate.

Well, one thing lead to another and I bought a Weber 26.75" OTG 2 years ago...love that beast...then along cam the WSM 18 last fall...love it too. Oh, and I've had a Smokey Joe 14 for a few years now, too...needs a mod to keep the cooking grate stable, and you have to keep the entire grate covered with coals for the best fire control, but otherwise, nice little portable table-top grill.

Anyway, my second oldest boy grabbed my SV-24 a year or so ago to use at his house...I don't miss it, at all, sadly...cooked a lot of great meals with that beast. If I ever took on the challenge to cook for a large gathering again, the SV-24 would be nice to have around, but, I could change things up enough to make due with what I have.

Oh, I found a rotisserie kit for my OTG 18 last winter...been a great spinner ride...I've even fired up my smallest sine-wave inverter gas generator to power the roti-motor a few times, but still enjoying cooking and eating those spinner meals. I'm still trying to justify the additional ~$240 for a 26.75" roti-kit with 2 extra sets of forks to do 3 birds/roasts, or whatever, along with my 18 spinning another 2 of whatever...good grief, that would turn my OTG 26" beast into a really diverse cooker as well, with some pretty decent capacity. The two spinner-capable rigs, together, along with my WSM 18, and the SJ-14 on the side? Like, 3 18+lb prime ribs on a stick, and all the sides to go with it...yeah, it'd be awesome. What else could I possibly need for charcoal-fired cookers? Oh, wait...

...did I just...oh, no I didn't just say that, did I? I shouldn't have asked that question. I cook on nothing but Weber for the time being...WSM and kettles with a little bit of everything for size and type. The kettles will do just about anything I ask of them, and I actually use them more than the WSM, although I really put the WSM through quite a workout last winter...documented in my I'VE GONE COMPLETELY DARK thread... that was more than a couple months of bliss, I might add.

Oh, Embers charcoal is a Home Depot exclusive...at least that's what I've read online...manufactured by none other than Royal Oak. It is a different briquette design/shape than I've ever seen before...they say it burns hotter (and longer), IIRC...I'd have to weight them on my digital scale and compare to, say, KBB and see if there's a difference in weight. I actually had some trouble getting temps up in the WSM with Embers last winter, repeatedly (so I'd sat no to hotter), but they do burn a long time, from what I was seeing, anyway. RO lump will kick out the heat if you want it to...Embers, not so much.

Anyway, that's me right now...taking this charcoal-fired cooking path where ever it leads me...just trying not to buy anything I won't get a lot of use out of, that's the kicker...I've thoroughly enjoy the ride, so far, and I don't see it ending any time in the near future. I plan on cooking over charcoal (probably with a Weber) when I'm retired and living full-time in a RV, while seeing all the places and people I want to visit...yeah, I think I'm hooked for life, uh-huh.

Oh, almost forgot to add: I keep my vent wide open when grilling or smoking, unless with some odd smoke or grilling cook going where I want to slightly decrease the draft and I don't want to mess with the intake setting..but I'm pretty careful to maintain enough draft to keep the smoke from getting stale. The only time I close it is when I've finished the meal, to kill the fire...intake gets closed then, too, of course...and as you already know, yes, you can kill the fire in a weber...even the little SJ-14 has snug enough fitted draft/intake controls to do that.

Crap, I digressed, a lot, there...but hey, you asked.

Eric

n4ynu · Aug 8, 2016

I have cooked in a Brinkman way back and cooked up some wicked food but it was so small, had to get more grill area, then the Char Grill, 25 + years, and no I am not a champion pit master or anything, I guess you could call me a back woods smoker, only problem is now I am in the burbs .......................... I have cooked some serious meats on that jewel Char Grill, done parties here for 50-100 many times, and with the side burner, well you know, more good meats, but I have been tending fires in smoke houses on the farm, fires in the stove or the fireplace, or the potbelly stoves, I even had to tend fires in the Oven in the farm house...........cut more wood than I cared to ever see again and I still have a wood stove here, love em, and still cutting and splitting cords of wood every year, except now I use a splitter hehehe.
The Char Grill and even the Brinkman, I used charcoal, wood or charcoal with a smoldering side box, or the side box with charcoal and selected sticks, always have hardwood and used to have 2 apple trees before they had to go to make room for the barn and the veggie garden.............so I am seriously enjoying the break from the toil, and had no idea electric and wood pellets could do that, I was prepared to be disappointed, but I surely was not, and the reviews were rave for this poor little mostly naked split breast, we saved one of the breasts and have had some special testers to come by, about 10 of them, and each of them were stunned considering it had no bbq sauce, no basting, no spices added after brine, and virtually no skin on each, these guys and gals are Chefs, in their 50's, they are my toughest critics, kids are easy hehehe, I would have never guessed but I was blown away by the results also, just cannot wait to cold smoke and dry some jerky, got 45 lbs of eye of round ready to pick up fresh cut and not frozen, will get them cold a bit for slicing and then brine/cure, then cold smoke to maybe 130, cannot wait, that is really what I got this for, was for the Jerky and very long cold smokes or slow cooks so I could take a break, I need a break, I do most of my cooking, close to all of it outside, even winter, I enjoy that Char Grill when it is 20 or below hehehe, but if this thing can cook like that, it is going to be my new friend for a long long time !

daricksta · Aug 9, 2016

N4YNU said:
Rick,

They were split breast, very well endowed chicken, but they did not have much skin, in light of that, it just made the outcome more amazing, I did not baste or paint them either, 3 1/2 hr brine and right to the smoker and with little skin they were juicy as they could be and smoke flavor right to the bone, cannot wait to do some leg quarters with the skin, I might need my stomach pumped, this stuff was so blasted tasty you just wanted more and more, it was so good my neighbor is buying the same smoker and getting me to help with MODS and my other neighbor is buying packs of quarters and having me cook them for her and then giving me half of them, I mean, I know you hear it all the time, but these boys were wicked, ready to do the Jerky, then I am going to do some Bacon and of coarse hams, roast and turkey, I have done all that on the char grill but with this smoker it is just amazing, I was not sure the pellets would produce the flavor I wanted, was not expecting the electric with the AMNPS to exceed the flavor of the grill, I have slow cooked and smoked quarters on the Char Grill before many many times ( for over 6 hours ), and people rave about them, but these were better, period.

Man, you're a-smokin' like a house a-fire! I don't smoke nearly that much. My wife love barbecue but not all of it. She loves when I make a perfect beef brisket, likes it when the pork ribs turn out great. But overall she isn't a fan of smoked meats and cheeses. So, I envy you.

Also congrats on those well-endowed chix breasts. You just learned how great food comes out of an electric smoker. Don't know if you used the water bowl (I never do) but everything comes out moist and delicious. And yessir! Pellets are just as effective as smoke source as chips or chunks. With the AMNPS there's no oversmoking like there can be with chips. I'll tell you again, mi amigo, smoked food that comes out of an electric smoker can rival most of the BBQ restaurants around, except for those which are the real deal. Even then you can still come mighty close.

daricksta · Aug 9, 2016

forluvofsmoke said:
OK, you're right...I've been in the middle of a lot threads that turned into a lot of great reads on entirely different subjects than intended, myself. So, a couple links are coming here. The frustrating part is trying to remember where you read it (or wrote it), and then, find it again for future reference.

Yeah, I guess I would say I evolved into more of a purist...not full-blown hard-core...I use what will get the job done given the circumstances, although recently have not cooked with anything but solid fuel...been about 1.5 years without food over a propane flame...and I feel better about my cooking as a result...just makes me

...maybe I was just a purist a heart and needed something to get things moving in the right direction. Well, right direction for me, at least. My cooking volumes are reduced from several years ago, and cooking style, methods and finished products have also evolved to some extent. I rarely foil meats...gotta get a killer bark on pork shoulder for sure...wet-to-dry smoke chamber method (with no foiling) was not just a fluke...I developed that method due of a perceived necessity. That's just one example of how my cooking has changed...to say I'm a purist, well, maybe so...if I had hardwoods to cook over as a heat source? Oh, crap, I'd really be a happy smoker...tend a wood fire for hours on end? Count me in...do all nighters every smoke I cranked up? No, that's pushing things too far...gotta mix it up and do it all, right?

I used propane grills and one vertical smoker (GOSM 3405GW) for quite a few years, converted the GOSM to charcoal for awhile, then got a horizontal pit (SnP-40"), converted it to propane when my fuel consumption went through the roof from a custom tuning plate mod, then quit using it when I got the Smoke Vault 24. I could do just about...OK, scratch that...I could smoke anything I wanted to in it. Somewhere in there, maybe 7-8 years or so ago, I started grilling with wally-world special charcoal kettles...like the even cooking temperatures, and flavor. I chose a Weber OTG 18 kettle for a 10-year service award at work...oh, my, all hell broke loose after that. Great temp control, no matter what I was doing on it. I was hooked, I think for life, and just didn't know it yet. Propane just didn't give me quite the same level of satisfaction at the end of the day...flavor wasn't the same, either. Propane grills, IMHO, suck for controlling grate temps and providing even cooking heat across the grate.

Well, one thing lead to another and I bought a Weber 26.75" OTG 2 years ago...love that beast...then along cam the WSM 18 last fall...love it too. Oh, and I've had a Smokey Joe 14 for a few years now, too...needs a mod to keep the cooking grate stable, and you have to keep the entire grate covered with coals for the best fire control, but otherwise, nice little portable table-top grill.

Anyway, my second oldest boy grabbed my SV-24 a year or so ago to use at his house...I don't miss it, at all, sadly...cooked a lot of great meals with that beast. If I ever took on the challenge to cook for a large gathering again, the SV-24 would be nice to have around, but, I could change things up enough to make due with what I have.

Oh, I found a rotisserie kit for my OTG 18 last winter...been a great spinner ride...I've even fired up my smallest sine-wave inverter gas generator to power the roti-motor a few times, but still enjoying cooking and eating those spinner meals. I'm still trying to justify the additional ~$240 for a 26.75" roti-kit with 2 extra sets of forks to do 3 birds/roasts, or whatever, along with my 18 spinning another 2 of whatever...good grief, that would turn my OTG 26" beast into a really diverse cooker as well, with some pretty decent capacity. The two spinner-capable rigs, together, along with my WSM 18, and the SJ-14 on the side? Like, 3 18+lb prime ribs on a stick, and all the sides to go with it...yeah, it'd be awesome. What else could I possibly need for charcoal-fired cookers? Oh, wait...

...did I just...oh, no I didn't just say that, did I? I shouldn't have asked that question. I cook on nothing but Weber for the time being...WSM and kettles with a little bit of everything for size and type. The kettles will do just about anything I ask of them, and I actually use them more than the WSM, although I really put the WSM through quite a workout last winter...documented in my I'VE GONE COMPLETELY DARK thread... that was more than a couple months of bliss, I might add.

Oh, Embers charcoal is a Home Depot exclusive...at least that's what I've read online...manufactured by none other than Royal Oak. It is a different briquette design/shape than I've ever seen before...they say it burns hotter (and longer), IIRC...I'd have to weight them on my digital scale and compare to, say, KBB and see if there's a difference in weight. I actually had some trouble getting temps up in the WSM with Embers last winter, repeatedly (so I'd sat no to hotter), but they do burn a long time, from what I was seeing, anyway. RO lump will kick out the heat if you want it to...Embers, not so much.

Anyway, that's me right now...taking this charcoal-fired cooking path where ever it leads me...just trying not to buy anything I won't get a lot of use out of, that's the kicker...I've thoroughly enjoy the ride, so far, and I don't see it ending any time in the near future. I plan on cooking over charcoal (probably with a Weber) when I'm retired and living full-time in a RV, while seeing all the places and people I want to visit...yeah, I think I'm hooked for life, uh-huh.

Oh, almost forgot to add: I keep my vent wide open when grilling or smoking, unless with some odd smoke or grilling cook going where I want to slightly decrease the draft and I don't want to mess with the intake setting..but I'm pretty careful to maintain enough draft to keep the smoke from getting stale. The only time I close it is when I've finished the meal, to kill the fire...intake gets closed then, too, of course...and as you already know, yes, you can kill the fire in a weber...even the little SJ-14 has snug enough fitted draft/intake controls to do that.

Crap, I digressed, a lot, there...but hey, you asked.

Eric

Eric, just want you to know I saw this but will come back later to read it when I have more time.

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