Immersion bacon curing - lab test results

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Guys it is important to understand with any technique your result may vary. The USDA guidelines have been around a long time and proven safe. Using Cure #1 at 4oz per Gallon Water has been a standard longer still. Again this is no reflection on Wades test but a single result of 600+ppm using the cure manufacturers recommendation of 4oz/gal does not invalidate a long term standard. This test does prove that  it is your responsibility to learn and have an understanding of how meats are cured before you attempt home production...JJ
 
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Guys it is important to understand with any technique your result may vary. The USDA guidelines have been around a long time and proven safe. Using Cure #1 at 4oz per Gallon Water has been a standard longer still. Again this is no reflection on Wades test but a single result of 600+ppm using the cure manufacturers recommendation of 4oz/gal does not invalidate a long term standard. This test does prove that  it is your responsibility to learn and have an understanding of how meats are cured before you attempt home production...JJ




How does that compute with the maximum ingoing nitrite of 120 Ppm or 156 Ppm rules....
 
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Originally Posted by DaveOmak  

How does that compute with the maximum ingoing nitrite of 120 Ppm or 156 Ppm rules....
Also don't forget that the manufacturers recommendations do not necessarily have to produce a product for home use that is within the USDA guidelines. The recommended Instacure Cure #1 quantities for home curing appear to go back a long way and this cure mix would not usually be used commercially for producing bacon. Commercially Nitrite is usually bought in its pure form in 25 Kg sacks or larger.

I suspect (though I don't have proof) that most manufacturers of Cure #1 and #2 simply mix them to the formula and state the recommended usage rates that follow all of the other manufacturers historical recommendations. It would be interesting to see how many have lab tested products that have been made using their mix. I hope some would have but I expect most bulk chemical manufacturers have not.

OK, it appears that this method of brining produces a higher level of Nitrite than the calculations predict, and that these exceed the USDA guidelines - but do they make the bacon product produced by this curing method unsafe? Probably not if eaten in moderate quantities. I think it is important though that people should be aware that the theoretical Ppm calculations and the final Ppm in the bacon may be very different and that they should not be tempted to use more than the manufacturers recommend.
 
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I do realise that this was a small number of tests, however the results from each set of samples were sufficiently consistent to indicate that they were a good indication of what was happening. Over the next few months I will be submitting more curing samples for lab testing as part of a commercial product that I am developing. Along with these I will also include some additional tests replicating the methods above. The samples will be much less comprehensive though and will only include the starting brine concentration and the end bacon Ppm. As these results become available I will add them to the thread.
 
Lol Bear - don't you start
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. My wife is still complaining about me filling up the fridges with the last testing.
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I am also proposing a 4 week whole belly experiment. Just to see if the ppms are still climbing after 14 days?

When can you start? LOL
 
Wade, morning.... After re reading the FSIS handbook, I believe you assumed the 4 oz. / gallon solution was for immersion curing.. I believe it is for a 10% injection only and subsequent immersion of meats is not allowed...

FSIS page 11...
There are some recently introduced processes, such as injecting emulsion into the meat or poultry; and there are processes not specifically addressed in the regulations (such as immersion curing of products other than bacon). Nevertheless, the amount of curing solution permitted in these processes is also based on the green weight of the meat or poultry because FSIS believes that all the curing agent used is taken up by the meat or poultry.
++++++++
The FSIS manual points to injection curing... where "all the curing agent used is taken up by the meat"....

Using the 4 0z. per gallon, that would lead to the conclusion of 187 Ppm nitrite in any injected meats injected at a 10% rate....

That solution is not to be used for immersion curing ... the USDA does not address immersion curing for any meats other than bacon...
 
Wade, morning.... After re reading the FSIS handbook, I believe you assumed the 4 oz. / gallon solution was for immersion curing.. I believe it is for a 10% injection only and subsequent immersion of meats is not allowed...

FSIS page 11...
There are some recently introduced processes, such as injecting emulsion into the meat or poultry; and there are processes not specifically addressed in the regulations (such as immersion curing of products other than bacon). Nevertheless, the amount of curing solution permitted in these processes is also based on the green weight of the meat or poultry because FSIS believes that all the curing agent used is taken up by the meat or poultry.
++++++++
The FSIS manual points to injection curing... where "all the curing agent used is taken up by the meat"....

Using the 4 0z. per gallon, that would lead to the conclusion of 187 Ppm nitrite in any injected meats injected at a 10% rate....

That solution is not to be used for immersion curing ... the USDA does not address immersion curing for any meats other than bacon...
It is for immersion too:

From the handbook: page 21-22

Nitrite in Immersed Products

In immersion curing, the submerged meat or poultry absorbs the cover pickle solution, slowly,

over a long period of time. There are two recognized methods for calculating the allowable

ingoing amount of nitrite in immersion cured products. The method used depends on the

mechanism of movement of nitrite within the meat and/or poultry/pickle system and into the meat,

meat byproduct, or poultry tissue itself.

22

! Method One

The first method assumes that the meat or poultry absorbs not more than the level of

nitrite in the cover pickle. Hence, the calculation for nitrite is based on the green weight

of the meat or poultry (as is the case with pumped products), but uses percent pick-up as

the percent pump. The percent pick-up is the total amount of cover pickle absorbed by

the meat or poultry. It is used in the calculation for immersion cured products in the same

way percent pump is used in the (previous) calculation for pumped products.

< Calculation Formula (using % pick-up)

lb nitrite × % pick-up × 1,000,000 = ppm

lb pickle
 
If you go to page 23, you will see the proper way to calculate for immersion curing... They have 800#'s pickle and 600#'s of meat... and they add 0.25#'s of nitrite which is 4#'s of cure #1..... 4#'s in 1400 #'s = 178 Ppm.....

Someone forgot to read farther through the FSIS manual.....


In the pump pickle, 4 oz. cure #1 per gallon.... 95 x 4 oz. = 383 oz. or 24 #'s cure #1 added to 95 gallons in the example Wade used....

There is a big difference between adding..
 
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Someone forgot to read the Note :-)

"Note: Method One is used for hams, shoulders, bellies, etc., because it takes weeks for these

large items to reach equilibrium. Method Two is primarily used with small items with large

surface areas such as pigs' ears, tails, snouts, etc."

method one is the one with % pickup.
 
Thank you wade for all the time and effort you've put in to this project. I've only had time to browse through every thing here but I'm looking forward to studying your results and getting in on the conversation.
Again, Many thanks.
 
Hi Dave

One of the purposes of this particular testing was to check the results of two immersion cures that were being supported by members of this forum. The first was the cure in the Prague Powder #1 thread that was being supported by Martin (DiggingDogFarm) for immersion brining (Brine #1), and the second was Pops brine (Brine #2) which is also regularly discussed on here. These are not my brines and I was not recommending or supporting either of them before the tests took place. Both appeared to be at such extremes of the cure concentrations that we just needed to check the validity of each. Martin was questioned at the time about the supporting evidence for the % uptake calculation and he pointed us to the Handbook. From reading it I think that the wording did supported his argument.

As JJ also mentioned earlier in this thread, the 4 ozs per gallon is a recommended brine by many of the manufacturers/distributors of Cure #1. I think the question you are alluding to is, should this brine only be used for injection/pumping or is it also valid for immersion curing - as was being proposed in the Prague Powder #1 thread?

I am currently preparing to sell my bacon commercially and so I have to provide the UK authorities with certified lab test results for the curing methods I use. From this test I know that I will not be using the Brine #1 immersion technique. If I was to immersion cure then Pops brine would be more appropriate, however I think that that would actually need the resulting cure PPM to be increased to around the 160-180 Ppm mark to ensure that it remained safe during prolonged smoking.
 
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Someone forgot to read the Note :-)

"Note: Method One is used for hams, shoulders, bellies, etc., because it takes weeks for these
large items to reach equilibrium. Method Two is primarily used with small items with large
surface areas such as pigs' ears, tails, snouts, etc."

method one is the one with % pickup.

It has been proven by Wade, the % pickup method does not work.... unless you want 700 Ppm nitrite in your meats..... AND it is not safe to eat.... nitrite attaches to the red blood cells making it impossible for your blood to carry oxygen.... that causes internal organ failure... like your heart or kidneys being deprived of oxygen... maybe only 10% or 20% but to ignore that fact is STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE....

Pops method is an equilibrium brining solution....

The reason it states "for smaller items" is..... todays manufacturers do not have the time or the space to store thousands of gallons of pickle and meat for 2 weeks in a football field sized refrigerator.... Pops dad had the room and pops described the barrels and time his stuff sat in the cooler...
It only makes sense that adding 1 tsp. of cure #1 to 5#'s of meat makes 156 ish Ppm nitrite in the meat.... AND adding 1 tsp. of cure #1 to 5 #'s of water make 156 ish Ppm nitrite in water... and adding 2 tsp. of nitrite to 10#'s of meat and water that given enough time all will equal out...
If you are in a hurry, make a 1500 Ppm solution of nitrite and inject at a rate of 10% green meat weight... or a 3,000 Ppm nitrite solution and inject at a 5% green meat weight....

 
Yes it was proven to produce high ppm ....that was the whole point of the exercise...duh.

Einstein might have anticipated this handbook when he defined insanity: doing the same thing and expecting different results.
 
 
      Cure whole sides of bacon and whole hams as real world conditions absolutely dictate, replicate the tests many times -- then the tests will render data that will logically lead to conclusions that could be considered accurate and reliable.(duh?.............. that's exactly what the USDA regularly demands of every commercial producer of cured meats)
As did my Dad's and was proven, through scientific testing and thorough critical examination for 40+ years, to be sufficient to cure all pork products effectively and to smoke at 225° 10 hours for partially cooked hams and fully cooked bacons, and an additional 26 hours for fully cooked hams.  Additional items until internal temp was 146°, proven safe and effective, with samples taken by the State every 30 day for 40 years, from 1946 until my dad's death in 1986.   The NYS inspection was replaced by USDA Inspection in the early 1970's.
 
I would just like to thank everyone who has morally supported me through this testing - both in the forum and in private. There are still some questions that need addressing, however I hope this has at least helped people to know what is happening when using either of the brines as immersion cures.

I think that we have shown, to most peoples satisfaction anyway, that the method used with Brine #1 will not result in and end product that falls within the USDA guidelines when used as an immersion brine. Is it still safe to eat? I am not qualified to give a difinitive answer on that but is unlikely to harm the average adult who is in good health when eaten in moderation? Would I eat it or give it to fiends and family? No I would not.

To see if the Brine #1 calculation works as 10% injection it would be necessary to perform separate et of tests with this brine pumped/injected.

The 10% cure take up being equivalent to a 10% increase in joint weigh when immersed has also been disproved, as in Brine #1 the meat had already taken up between 40%-45% of the initial cure strength with a weight increase of only 7%-8%. As you know this was one of the statements from the original Prague Powder #1 threat that both AtomicSmoke and I initially suspected as being incorrect.

Again, many thanks for your patience as the story slowly unraveled. 
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Wade
 
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